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The Duke Rejection List

I’ve gotten more emails to write about this Duke slut Karen Owen than I have on any other topic. I wasn’t interested at first, having scanned the notorious Powerpoint (also at this link in case first doesn’t work) and concluded that it was just another story of a whore riding the (alpha) cock carousel who happened to forego discretion and publicize her sluttery, nothing to see here move along dystopia down the hall and to your left. But a closer inspection of Owen’s tell-all reveals a river of scorned subconsciousness that the mainstream feminist bloggers have predictably failed to notice –

this chick was rejected by each and every one of these high status men she banged.

“But how can that be?”, some of the duller among you will ask. “None of the men turned her down for sex.”

Don’t you know it’s different for women? Failing to get laid is not how women are rejected; they are rejected when they don’t receive romance, love, and long term commitment from the men who fuck them. Most women under 25 with a slim and healthy 17-23 BMI profile have no trouble getting laid from the men they find attractive. Given that most young women can get sex fairly easily, falling into bed with a man, even high status men such as the Duke athletes targeted by Owen, is not much of an accomplishment. It’s like giving a trophy to a dog for being able to lick its own balls.

Now convincing these fly-by-nighter men to date, romance, introduce to their friends, spend money on, and marry the women they screw… that’s the real trick. And it is the measuring stick we should be applying to skank hos like Karen Owen. For by that metric, she and many others like her fail miserably.

For example, here is her write-up of the man (a tennis star) she rated the worst:

Note this man’s utter dismissal of her as a potential long term prospect. “Did not bother to kiss more than a few seconds”. “…after which he simply walked out”. “…did not return”. “‘I will leave them outside of the building for you'”.

And Owen’s reaction?

“1/10. Seriously.”

That is the tersely bitter send-off of one pissed and deeply wounded woman. Don’t let the whimsical snarkiness and slut empowerment pose fool you — even the raunchiest cockgobblers have a heart inside that beats for a man to love and cherish them above all others. The love of a man, true and loyal, is the slut’s white whale.

But what about the men she rated highly? Did they stay with her? Here’s her write-up of the man she rated the highest:

What did the first place man do differently than the last place man? He catered to her female need for signs of romance and commitment (which, in the end, weren’t forthcoming. And that kid went HA HAW):

“…intense level of eye contact”. “‘…if I get lucky you’ll wake me up with a kiss in the morning'”. “Him refusing to allow me to leave before noon”. “…how important it was to him that I got off as well”.

So when PUAs talk about leaving women better than you found them, this is what they mean — treat your pump and dumps like girlfriends and in the ego-assuaged haze of their pleasure they will forget that you haven’t actually committed to them beyond offering the half-eaten burrito in your fridge.

Unfortunately for Miss Owen, this story with ÜberMan #1 does not have a happy ending. After that amazing night together, this is how the following rendezvous meetings went down:

I saw him out briefly at Devines the Tuesday after, but since we had only just seen each other [ed: "seen" = "fuck" in chickspeak. GSS Fail!]… I did not even approach him, only making sure that he saw me in passing. [...] I would have liked to have hooked up many more times than two, but he was tired and I needed to graduate the next day.

Long term romance fail. When a girl is careful not to talk to a lover in public for fear of creating an awkward moment that might kill the budding romance, you know you are dealing with a slut shooting way out of her league and, in the big picture, a dating market beautifully arranged to the maximum advantage of alpha males. This truly is the golden era for single men with game who have wisely avoided the trap of marriage. Conversely, it is the hell matrix for betas who now have nothing to offer but the pitiful consolation prize of being willing to wear ‘This is what a feminist looks like’ t-shirts in hopes of copping a pity fuck from a short-haired hippie chick on a five hour bender.

The whole Powerslut Powerpoint reads like the above. Owen snags another Duke alpha athlete (implicitly she has studiously avoiding snagging any computer science students on campus), has her sex, and then never sees the guy again except at beer pong parties where they exchange knowing glances if she’s lucky, or unacknowledged quick exits if she’s unlucky. Then she writes about it with a dash of humor and self-awareness to exorcise the demons tormenting her broken heart and chafed vulva, and sends it to a couple of girlfriends, her male-oriented brain assuming the girlfriends would be loyal to her and not pass it on to the wider public. Big mistake.

Probably the stupidest commentary on this affair was by that cougartown fembot Penelope Trunk, (the hypocritical conniving cacklepuss stalkercunt who harassed a man and his family in real life for having the gall to sneer at her feminist boilerplate), who in her infinite perspicacity managed to turn it into a treatise on, color me surprised!, sexual harassment and female empowerment via the magical art of spreading your legs for chaste men who only have sex once every thousand years when Jupiter and Saturn are aligned.

So what makes these slides so fascinating?  I think it’s her spunk and self-knowledge and enthralling sense of her own power. I wish I had had that when I was her age. I am twenty years older than Owen, but she inspires me to be brave, takes risks, and let my creativity get the best of me.

So what’s stopping you? Oh, that’s right. Twenty additional years (forty in female years) isn’t good for the bangathon business.

Jesus, what a buffoon.

Here’s some real insight for ya, Penelope and assorted Jizzabelers — Karen Owen has royally fucked up her chances to extract marriage from a good man thanks to her intemperate decision to write about, share and, consequently, archive for the masses for all eternity her insatiable hunger for a variety of lacrosse cock. Try to turn down the knobs on your psychologically-cemented female projection modules for a moment and put yourself in an alpha male’s shoes. What man worth his yarbles in character, money, career, looks, charm and/or social status is going to use Karen Owen for anything more than a hole in which to dump a perfunctory fuck? What high status man would marry a slut with a tap sheet a mile long, her every clitoral flutter registered in loving detail in ASCII, jpeg and png for his friends to read and laugh at?

Rhetorical.

Naturally, the double standards crowd will pipe up that Owen was just doing what men do all the time. Congratulations! You just figured out double standards exist and life isn’t fair. First prize, a group hug from fellow knobbobbers. Second prize, a beta with few options. Third prize, you’re still a rancid slut.

The impolite fact is that a man who wrote an Owen-esque fuck list would not suffer much, if any, penalty in the dating market *or* in the more tightly regulated social market for his promiscuity. Sure, a few femtards would wail at the objectifying of women and the unfairness that ugly but SMRT broads are passed over for alpha bimbo sorostitutes, but in the crucible of real life most normal heterosexual women would be uncomfortably drawn to such a man, and would work for his affections. I’m sure the athletes who are a part of Owen’s fuck list are high-fiving their pounding of Owen’s sperm cavern when they’re not fucking a hundred other groupies scrambling for their attentions.

Bottom line: a male Karen Owen would actually see his sexual market value *rise*, while Owen’s value as a girlfriend and potential wife has undoubtedly fallen. This — plus the raw hypergamy on display by her choice of sexual partners and her ability to effortlessly fulfill that limbic impulse — is the underlying message of Owen’s cutesy confessional. And it’s the message that the legacy media, the middle-aged vicars of vicariousness, and the feminists are trying hard to miss.

******

A few other points of note. Duke is also the site of the infamously racist false rape accusation by a black stripper against white lacrosse players. The mass media and fembots had a glorious communal orgasm over that one until it was discovered the whole thing was a lie. Funny how now, with another Duke scandal wafting in the autumn air, those same media mavens and feminists can’t be bothered to string up Karen Owen for her objectifying of Duke’s male students. Instead of a wail, admiration for her journey of self-actualization is shared by all.

Hypocrites, liars and filthy cunts, the lot of them.

Karen Owen herself looks masculinized. Check out her manjaw, beady eyes and heavy overhanging brow (on the left):

The photo of her lends evidence to my theory that women with high serum testosterone, or women who have been prenatally drowned in single mamma’s high T syrup, are more likely to slut it up with a platoon of men. These kinds of women are also more likely to value raw looks in a man, whereas more feminine women tend to downgrade male looks relative to other attractive male traits such as humor, charm and social acumen. It is possible that Owen’s masculinization gives her the male-like capacity to absorb to a greater extent than most women a series of repeated romantic rejections from crudely inattentive one night stands.

Last thought. What I’ve written above is based on the assumption that Owen was honest with her Powerpoint. It isn’t a guarantee that she’s telling the truth. The internet is the place where people make shit up. (Case in point: I could be making everything up as well. Every story I write could be a total lie. It isn’t, but it could be. You’ll just have to take my word for it.)

Owen could very well have made everything up for shits and giggles, or she could have been cruelly rejected by an alpha lacrosse player and this was her weird idea of getting back at him and those like him. It’s not unheard of that women will lie, in both petty and grand ways, about the men who have hurt them in a vain attempt at exacting vengeance, nor is it unheard of that they will fantasize out loud about having sex with alpha males. For purposes of discussion, we’ll have to believe the story as reported: the hookups are real and she only meant to send her fuck list to a few (formerly) close girlfriends.

I’m sure the Duke lacrosse players are crying in their red cups. [/sarcasm]

806 Responses

  1. I had a gorgeous duke groupie stalking me.. her pics with kyle singler and the black players did not impress. in fact they got her discarded so hard that she proceeded to stalk for a month.

    these women are idiots for squandering their appeal. after duke, change your name and move to a foreign country.


  2. Off topic –
    Check out this hipster slide(freak)show off GQ.com.

    http://www.gq.com/style/street-style/201010/gordon-von-steiner-wandering-eye-men-of-style#slide=1


  3. Third prize, you’re still a rancid slut.

    oh snap!

    Note to self, teach hypothetical kids to throw before counting. Yeah, the pretty lies guys tell themselves, the engineering students like to think that they” benefit in the end for their higher post-grad paychecks and “personalities.” As R said, this chick wasn’t chasing high IQ kids. And I imagine she could’ve found a high-IQ engineering student with a good body. No, she went for jocks.


  4. I just witnessed verbal rape.


  5. And why do both of these women look so trashy?

    The one in white looks like an actual prostitute. And not an expensive one.


  6. I was more interested by the means of their getting her into bed. Some of them are obviously using Game, like the guy who said something like “I might let you make out with me if you beat me at Mario Kart Wii.” But others not – when I read that she liked one of the guys because he complimented her, I immediately wondered what Roissy would think about that.

    Obviously we don’t know about the people who tried and failed.


  7. Out: “Bring the movies.”

    In: “I will leave them outside of the building for you.”


  8. I should have played lacrosse.


  9. That was an excellent post. I’ve never looked at the whole Powerpoint thingy from that angle before.


  10. Best thing you’ve ever written


  11. Only jocks could be so stupid to ignore a slut-on-the-hunt after the infamous Duke “Rape” Scandal.

    I’d say “I bet her dad’s real proud” – except the 40-ish swpl beta drone probably is proud. Proud like Monsieur Lohan.

    The Feminazi Media cunts would surely be OUTRAGED! if it were a Duke Lacrosse player writing about how many notches he put on his cock with the cheerleading squad.


  12. I thought these Dukies were supposed to be smart, this turdlet reads about as well as Michelle Obesema’s Princeton thesis.


  13. Check this article out. Girls’ litmus tests for when to dump a date. False sense of entitlement alert!:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/12/AR2010101202523.html


  14. Her powerpoint is the 13 guys she proclaims have banged her, by 22. All college athletes. Imagine how many more banged her in high school and as a freshman, etc.


  15. Regarding the hypocritical feminists at Duke, the most famous Jersey white trash finishing school this side of the Mason–Dixon Line, a quotation from Roger Sterling.

    “Don: What do women want?
    Roger: Who cares?”


  16. This does interestingly refute your theory that all a man has to do to be good in bed is do whatever he feels like.

    Also, interestingly, is there any indication she actually wanted a romantic relationship with any of these men? Or is that just guaranteed to be a fact just because she has a vagina, much like how no man anywhere ever has actually wanted to get married.

    And how do you differentiate between, “He’s a dick I never want to see again and I hope he dies of gonorrhea and rots in hell” from, “I wish he had wanted me more and I’m now bitter he didn’t?” That guy sounds a lot more like the former than the latter. If some guy robs a woman after she sleeps with him, she’s going to be pissed off at him, but it does not follow she really wanted a more serious relationship with him than he was willing to provide.


  17. This does interestingly refute your theory that all a man has to do to be good in bed is do whatever he feels like.

    say what?


  18. on October 12, 2010 at 3:33 pm Ascending Alpha

    Every day I find myself hating feminists more than the day before. I can’t believe any sane woman would congradulate a little slut for this kind of behavior.


  19. one can only imagine the howls and shrieks from the jezebelers and feminsters if a guy had put together this sort of thing about the girls he’d banged.


  20. Also, interestingly, is there any indication she actually wanted a romantic relationship with any of these men? Or is that just guaranteed to be a fact just because she has a vagina, much like how no man anywhere ever has actually wanted to get married.

    good point, cause many women do, in fact, love being fucked and then ignored. you gals show so much “spunk and self-knowledge” when you do that.


  21. Gorb–

    And why do both of these women look so trashy?

    The one in white looks like an actual prostitute. And not an expensive one.

    I actually kinda a dig the one in white. Strictly as a slut to use mind you. She’s got an aching need to please men.


  22. Roissy keeps pointing out how high-T women have unfeminine jaws. I’ve been noticing more and more horse-faced actresses on tv. It started with the chick who played Jane opposite Casper van Dien’s Tarzan. Then there was Deb on Dexter. And the Asian chick on Dollhouse; if she weren’t young and Oriental, no one would find her attractive, and in a few years no one will. The heroine of the new show Covert Affairs would be really pretty if not for the horse-jaw.

    Even 15 years ago, all these women would have been relegated to playing the beautiful heroine’s wisecracking best friend.


  23. you know, another joke that is on this chick. She probably shelled out $150K to be used and abused, some of these jocks were probably on scholarship. Tuition for nothing and chicks for free. What’s she going to do with her degree in comparative gum-gargling?

    Also, to think that the same group of guys that can score the two chicks in the photo (and yes they look like sluts but they’re hotter than anything you’ll ever touch) on a consistent basis would touch a $20 crack whore like Crystal is laughable. No wonder all the bitter, beta, white knighting academics jumped on these guys. spiteful losers.

    And maybe this is what feminism has done to society boiled down into a ant-farm microcosm, polygamous hypergamy where what, 2% of the student body, gets access to tarted up girls while the rest of the male population drowns in beer, trying to score what’s left. Or maybe not, who knows.

    Are the acts of this girl a result of high testosterone, feminist indoctrination, lies, or vengeance for never being more than a jock groupie? I’ll go with vengeance. Bitches be crazy.


  24. I read the Penelope Trunk response on her blog a few days ago and about died of stunned disbelief.

    This was an epic takedown from you, Roissy. A genuine tour de force.


  25. “Roissy keeps pointing out how high-T women have unfeminine jaws. I’ve been noticing more and more horse-faced actresses on tv.”

    Yes, I read somewhere that a lot of these actresses take a form of anabolic steroid to help them lose weight and have more toned physiques.

    The side effects are the development of certain masculine features including square jaws and big noses. There are of course many other internal side effects…


  26. I briefly read through her presentation, but I did notice the highest rank went to the guy who seemed to be the most into her. The ones who didn’t like her as much probably made her angry so she looked for unflattering things to say about them.


  27. I have people verified her story as indeed being true?


  28. “and yes they look like sluts but they’re hotter than anything you’ll ever touch”

    Um… I’ve got a date tomorrow with a girl hotter than either of those. The brunette doesn’t even come close. Keep reading Roissy.


  29. You brought up a good judge of alpha: rejection of sluts. Betas crave them and take their shit while alphas bang them once or twice and then laugh off the awkward moment with his buddies when he sees them again in the bar. Or they make a video reenactment and share it on the internet with a bunch of strangers.

    There’s a lot of betas who would marry this chick, but she’s so used to the alpha cock that she will refuse to “settle.” Ultimately no alpha will get into a relationship with her because she’s only in the 6 or 7 range of attractiveness. Great candidate for a one-night stand, yet nothing more.


  30. This episode confirmed a lot of Roissy’s maxims.

    There’s another maxim that isn’t verified in this post. Namely, that natural alphas run game. One of the most common tropes is that game is “fake,” and real naturals don’t need it. But look at some of these slides.

    “If you beat me at Mario Kart Wii, I might let you make out with me.”

    Framing himself as having higher value, while simultaneously escalating sexually. You could literally use this line while playing any game with any girl who has some attraction for you.


  31. Edit to above: “There’s another maxim that isn’t verified…” Should read “that isn’t discussed.”


  32. “The Feminazi Media cunts would surely be OUTRAGED! if it were a Duke Lacrosse player writing about how many notches he put on his cock with the cheerleading squad.”

    And you wouldn’t be, yet you are when this chick does it. If you want to be credible, you have to be consistent. Just because you rightly identify liberal hypocrisy in the one instance doesn’t vindicate its opposite expression either. You guys need to learn this accurate criticism cuts both ways. You can’t say “liberals would be saying the exact opposite if roles were reversed” without recognizing that you are saying the opposite of what you would say if roles were re-reversed. The ever entertaining, perceptive and PC-outing realism Roissy needs to be an equal opportunity hypocrisy outer and hardnosed realist instead of doing the exact, but opposite thing the liberal PC fucks do, that is having a low threshold for what constitutes elitism and hypocrisy when it comes from the left and a high threshold when it comes from the right (where it is usually reverse elitism in the guise of anti-elitism). If he doesn’t, he risks opening himself to the same criticisms he levels, correctly, at the strident “ideology first, argument second” left. If you want to change minds rather than merely entertain, a bit less triumphalism and a bit more closing the obvious points of misunderstanding to the careless reader are in order.


  33. It’s also worth pointing out that a some of her sexual experiences detailed in the Powerpoint—the roughness, getting cock-pounded while blackout drunk—would have been classified as ‘rape’ if she had woken up the next morning with buyers’ remorse. But since the guys satisfied her hypergamous fantasies, it’s all “empowering” instead.


  34. My money says she was the typical bookworm in high school, spending all her time studying so she could get into a school like Duke. As a consequence, she was neglected by all the boys.

    When she gets to college, Alfred Adler’s compensation principle kicks in and she becomes a mega slut, discovering the joys of male company for the first time after years of subconsciously yearning for it.


  35. I hate vengeance, especially those that involves indirect means and individuals that do not take ownership of their actions. Little do they know, their vengeful act reveals more about themselves than what they expose of others. The lower the score she gave probably points to the smartest guy who..showed the least interest in her. Good for the ones who scored the lowest!!! More respect to them.


  36. @ Doug1

    “I actually kinda a dig the one in white. Strictly as a slut to use mind you. She’s got an aching need to please men.”

    She looks like a tranny in real life and her name is ‘Candace’. Known as ‘Mandace’ on campus.


  37. On the warped planet, known as the female subconscious mind, did the year long media orgy, screaming the Duke lacrosse team players were sex crazed gang rapists, only serve to INCREASE the sexual value of Duke LAX athletes, in the minds of nubile, young coeds?

    If so, then talk about a smear campaign backfiring…

    Was Crystal Gail Magnum rejected by an alpha Duke athlete (i.e., scorned woman).


  38. @Jason Parson

    Don’t underestimate how common this girl’s behavior is. She’s not some anomaly where you can pinpoint the terrible things that made her the bizarre oddity she is today… she’s just slightly attractive modern day college girl. She’s doing what most girls like her do, whore it up. They’re everywhere.


  39. @ Firepower

    “I’d say “I bet her dad’s real proud” – except the 40-ish swpl beta drone probably is proud.”

    Believe it or not, the girl’s dad is actually a small-town Baptist preacher.


  40. “Roissy keeps pointing out how high-T women have unfeminine jaws.”

    Obesity has redefined beauty. To even be a beauty candidate, your first requirement is to be relatively lean, so entree into the competition is already artificially limited. When I was a kid in the 70’s/80’s, every class had “a fat kid”. Jesus, now they are all fat.

    It could just be that the naturally high T girls have an easier time being lean and in a mating market where fatties don’t even enter your field of vision – culled in the unconcious mind before the conscious mind registers their presence, you just notice the high T girls more.


  41. good for you, H. Not my point, I wanted to avoid the internet nerd’s “she’s got pointy knees, way below my standards” phenomenon.

    They’re both flawed (and brunette is looking more so on second look), but R’s point is that they’re both low BMI and young and therefore high value. And they dress in a way that is, um, pleasing.

    @intp, I seriously doubt that CGM’s motives were due to being rejected.


  42. On some of the experiences being akin to rape:

    When I was in school, back in the mid-90’s, there was a woman who was mildly inebriated at a party and went home with a guy. They had sex.

    A few days later, he was hauled in front of a board and accused of rape. He was suspended from school but neither the woman nor the college called the cops. He talked to a lawyer and then demanded that if something had been done that was illegal, the cops should be called.

    The cops were called, and they determined there was no case: No rape occurred.

    Her argument, and this is exactly how she told it: When sober, she would NEVER have slept with this kind of guy. He took advantage of a drunk woman.

    Well, he sounded like he was pretty hammered, too.

    The story as it came out:

    They danced sexy and started to make out in a corner. She was giggly and happy. He suggested they get out, and she suggested his place, because she had a roommate. She later claimed she just wanted to make out.

    They made out along the way, and at the door.

    They went back, and he pushed her up against a wall, hiked up her pants, and took her against the wall inside his room. Then they moved to the bed and had sex for a while, and then collapsed in sleep.

    She regretted the entire incident. When asked if she’d ever resisted, she said no: She was drunk, she was intoxicated, and therefore it was rape.

    The womens’ center backed her up.

    The cops did not. In fact, they filed a nuisance suit and told the college to get lost: to many of these non-rape cases had been reported in the past year, costing resources and diverting attention from actual rapes.

    The college stuck by the female student, and the male was suspended. He sued the university and they settled out of court for a massive sum of money, and he transferred the next year. The woman never came under any scrutiny and was lauded for fighting for women’s rights.

    I should note that I knew of the guy, peripherally, and he was a bit of a geek, but mostly just a regular guy. I think he did economics or some such thing.

    Anyway, the most memorable thing anyone said about it aside from the perversity of the whole charade was by my ex-GF.

    I recall she said to me:

    “Damn it, that’s why I go to parties. If some guy doesn’t push me up against a wall when I’m drunk and try to fuck me, then I must be uglier than sin.”

    So, the rule appears to be:

    If she ever says it’s rape, then it’s rape.

    If she doesn’t, then it’s good sex.

    Hard to navigate this minefield.


  43. on October 12, 2010 at 4:30 pm blacksquirrel

    The first thing that struck me is that these guys look like typical douchebags who are barely out of high school. Maybe that’s just me. They don’t seem like men.

    I am not sure why she frames this as an accomplishment as it is clearly not. Most guys are DTF with any non-grenade.

    In all seriousness, this girl needs to change her identity ASAP if she has any career aspirations besides porn. Porn may not be a bad option for her. I do think she could make fistloads of $ doing porn if she signs with an agent very soon.


  44. White-dressed Mandace looks disgusting, frankly.

    I get a negative chubby just looking at her.


  45. “one can only imagine the howls and shrieks from the jezebelers and feminsters if a guy had put together this sort of thing about the girls he’d banged.”

    And I can only imagine the shrieks and howls from Roissy posters if such a guy had been pilloried and criticized on a feminst blog. I love Roissy’s bracing realism, but his posters (and he himself on ocassion) veers quickly from brave iconoclasts to equally inconcistent reverse PC victim whiners. If you are going to be a consistant realist and back up your realism with evo psych, you have to take the good with the bad – when double standards dictated by nature don’t suit PC liberal feminsit cant, you need to out them, but at the same time you can’t cry when the double standards dictated by nature don’t flatter male triumphalism either. Seems to me the proper political orientation to most of this stuff is a tragic realism that runs counter to both liberal hypocrisy and optimism as well as the reverse political correctness and victim-mongering of conservatism. We live in a shit world of unsavory compromises where we can’t simultanously have much individual freedom and have the stability bringing social structures that freedom is parasitic on and I don’t see that liberals or conservatives have any way out of this cruel delimma. Outlier individuals fall victim to societal structures based on properly perceived norms or social structures collapse, taking everyone, outliers and all, down with them. Liberals and conservatives both want to priveldge the social good in different ways (organic vs. governmental institutions) and both define individual freedom in different ways, but there appears to be only a narrow historical moment when both can exist at the same time and conservative rage at naive liberal solutions is only half the depressing truth.


  46. Just to add, her Coed Kama Sutra should only increase the Duke lacrosse recruitment pool. Every HS male athlete will want to be a part of the team where the pussy flows free.


  47. ….There’s another maxim that isn’t verified in this post. Namely, that natural alphas run game. One of the most common tropes is that game is “fake,” and real naturals don’t need it. But look at some of these slides.

    “If you beat me at Mario Kart Wii, I might let you make out with me.”

    Framing himself as having higher value, while simultaneously escalating sexually. You could literally use this line while playing any game with any girl who has some attraction for you…..

    Now take the Brett Favre situation, he showed no understanding of game, (if it was him) and when going for the much hotter girl was left completely on his ass holding his cock. Try telling me Brett Favre doesn’t have super-alpha status even at his age. Absent game he could probably bang this wore out Cock Dutchess, but when forced with a real challenge, ie. a hot chick, he failed.

    The game is what sets you apart, Alpha’s already have status, but when the girl is in a mashup of high status alphas it’s the game that sets the pecking order.

    Oh and this chick really isn’t hot at all, she’s very average that will IMO be back in grad school in a few years because her degree is worthless and she craves the attention she is no longer getting, only to now be too old to be getting the pussy-poundings she wants and the guys her age that she made habbit of chasing in undergrad are now coaching junior high lacrosse somewhere in the northeast.

    This bitch really should be thanking a fat chick, since they are the reason she was able to pull anyone she wanted. God, only imagine what would happen if we as men could control ourselves and refuse to bang fuglies… maybe the US would turn into a country of women that can’t hide a dinner roll under their tits.


  48. Bravo.

    Outstanding rape of hypocrisy and lies and of slimy cheap behavior.

    Simmering beneath these posts is a moral sincerity and justified, controlled anger towards liars of all stripes. Beneath the deliberate brutality of language is a violent opposition to bullshit. The writing has a raw authenticity that’s a sign of high quality standards in general.

    You enjoy pissing people off, but you do it in the most noble way possible: by telling the truth.

    Just a note, though.

    People who spend a lot of time on the internet are at risk of getting a somewhat skewed view of things (at least those who are prone to very one-sided views on matters).

    Everywhere you look, there are signs of infidelity and whoredom. Every other day this blog rightly excoriates the behaviour of some rancid whore. Tales of cheating loose-pussied skanks spew from every pore of cyberspace.

    It’s easy to fall victim to probability/inference fallacies, or an “availability bias”. You don’t hear many stories of quality-women, loyalty, high-character people because these are not things that spread, meme-like on the internet; they don’t grab attention or get disseminated, nor do they get written about in the first place: people generally don’t go online to report these things. They don’t go out of their way to tell everyone how about their situation. They’re too busy living it.
    People who read all the stories of betrayal and sluttiness start to think that this general impression – the worst and most notorious aspects of female nature splashed all over the interwebs, like that Owen whore – is a representative sample of the overall female population.

    It isn’t. At all.
    Bottom line, lest I be misunderstood: generally, women nowadays are cumguzzling whores, and the seed of whoredom resides in the heart of every woman. But not all women act on it, and that’s the litmus test of character. There are genuine, loyal, emotionally mature women out there.

    (Analogy: our fear of plane crashes. People think plane crashes are more frequent than they actually are. Statistically you have a massively higher chance of dying in a car crash. We don’t hear about all the car crashes in the media, but we do hear about the plane crashes, so we get a slanted idea in our heads about their frequency and probability. Same with whores.)


  49. She looks like a tranny in real life and her name is ‘Candace’. Known as ‘Mandace’ on campus.

    In real life? Hell, she looks like a tranny in the picture.


  50. on October 12, 2010 at 4:44 pm blacksquirrel

    She is currently being courted by publishers for a possible book deal.


  51. What matters in NOT quantity, but quality. She thinks quantity trumps. She’s soooo wrong.


  52. david arquette what a wuss. no wonder cox got rid of him. she was his mom!

    never good for the man to be treated as a child. she withheld sex for four months!


  53. Gorby, how did the accused take it?


  54. @Peckerwood.

    No idea. More than 15 years ago.

    He demanded a criminal charge, there was none forthcoming, then he sued the college administration. He got a big payoff, the college didn’t have to change any of its practices, all good, right?

    The feminists likely wrung some kind of victory out of it.

    I just remember what my GF at the time said. She also said something to the effect that guys could do that to her more often – it would take the dull out of school.


  55. The gal averaged 3.25 guys a year. Between 16-32 that averages out to 52 sex partners. How fit will she be for a monogamous relationship with an attractiveness/status peer? Or now, with 13 admitted partners?

    None.

    And people scoffed.

    And that’s the dog not barking. Lack of condemnation by hotter, more Alpha women who have a built-in reason to restrict Alphas (not having to share them as much). Ordinary, plain women won, and yes the Owen woman wins. She gets to have sex with athletes she would not have, otherwise. She’s probably happier. She can always single mom/stripper it up.


  56. Mencken

    “The Feminazi Media cunts would surely be OUTRAGED! if it were a Duke Lacrosse player writing about how many notches he put on his cock with the cheerleading squad.” Firepower The Wickedly Tiny

    And you wouldn’t be, yet you are when this chick does it. If you want to be credible, you have to be consistent. Just because you rightly identify liberal hypocrisy in the one instance doesn’t vindicate its opposite expression either. You guys need to learn this accurate criticism cuts both ways. You can’t say “liberals would be saying the exact opposite if roles were reversed” without recognizing that you are saying the opposite of what you would say if roles were re-reversed. The ever entertaining, perceptive and PC-outing realism Roissy needs to be an equal opportunity hypocrisy outer and hardnosed realist instead of doing the exact, but opposite thing the liberal PC fucks do, that is having a low threshold for what constitutes elitism and hypocrisy when it comes from the left and a high threshold when it comes from the right (where it is usually reverse elitism in the guise of anti-elitism). If he doesn’t, he risks opening himself to the same criticisms he levels, correctly, at the strident “ideology first, argument second” left. If you want to change minds rather than merely entertain, a bit less triumphalism and a bit more closing the obvious points of misunderstanding to the careless reader are in order.

    #1. I am not roissy. He’s more handsome and better hung I hear.
    #2. Wow. You need need need an editor.

    #3. Compare this Duke Fuck List case to Oprah whoring out with the Duke Lacrosse team who subsequently describe her prowess on a ratings scale.

    The Liberal Femocrat Media will defend (with camouflage praise) the woman every time.

    For realism’s sake, substitute the male Duke Lacrosse team with (more likely) Sasha Grey. Which female would then reap scorn?

    Answer: Neither.

    The Femocracy would not condem – it just simply wouldn’t praise either and bury the story quickly until the next distraction of a Tiger Woods bimbo eruption gives them another ample opportunity to Praise-A-Ho.


  57. on October 12, 2010 at 5:09 pm Iusuallypostunderadifferentname

    The girls here at Duke are garbage. They’re all either sluts or “reformed” sluts who want to be treated like ladies but act like men.

    The university is biased against men. They have two different signs on campus buses. Both start with “What happened last night?”
    One of them shows two girls walking into the women’s center and ends with “I need to talk to someone”
    The other shows a man and ends with “I backed off”
    Fuck that noise! Any idiot can understand the implications of those signs.

    I can’t walk around this town without seeing a girl I’ve fucked. The hurt in their eyes is obvious. Good.

    Remember, before Karen Owen, and even before Duke Lacrosse, there was Tucker Max. Duke is all about sex scandals.


  58. on October 12, 2010 at 5:10 pm dick in arlington

    Anyone who hates Penelope Trunk is my ally in my war against the annoying and stupid.

    Has anyone done some analysis on whom Ms. Owen is dancing with in that picture and under what circumstances this might occur?


  59. on October 12, 2010 at 5:12 pm dick in arlington

    Oh, I should have read the comments before posting.


  60. Gorbachev, that is infuriating. No matter how many times one reads about these things, it still stirs up a visceral, murderous loathing for these cunts. They seem to completely lack any conception of the intense, permanent damage inflicted by their careless “rape” accusations. Fucking myopic soulless fuckbags.


  61. I am referring to the entire tone of this infectious blog, that is, it easily veers from proper outing of ideologically driven confirmation bias on the left to equally maddening ideologically drive confirmation bias on the left, both from Roissy and his posters. I keep hearing “the feminists have a double standard, ignoring the same thing on one side that they criticize on the other”, which is TRUE TRUE TRUE without noticing when the tone of this blog (and mostly its commenters) do the exact same thing on the other side.

    I agree with Roissy’s comments most of the time (and what a fine, hilarious writer!) and enjoy him as much as anyone, but a good example of my point is his calling the Duke rape debacle “racism” (and perhaps quite rightly so!!) but do you think he would ever use the word “racism” to describe the same scenario were it, say a white stripper who lied about a black fraternity or sports teams lecherousness (or would you?) – he would look for all sorts of excuses for it instead, or make HBD arguments about black leacherousness that wouldn’t have the same praising triumpahlism that his praise of the Duke Lacrossse guys carries. Get my point? I am not arguing against the correctness of his critique (it may well be quite correct), but against its unequal application. Of course the tone from feminists and liberals would have been one hundred percent different had the Duke stripper been white and the males been black. BUT IT WOULD ALSO HAVE BEEN ONE HUNDRED PERCENT DIFFERENT FROM ROISSY AND MOST OF HIS COMMENTERS! Get my point yet?

    You have to be careful that joyfully pricking liberal hypocrisy and liberal ideologically driven obliviousness to the facts doesn’t turn into its own kind of political correctness (that is motivated, just like the liberal kind, by resentment and victim mongering than dispassionate analysis of the facts).


  62. Menchken is missing the point of the post, which is that the double-standard exists.

    sidebar: Karen Owens defends her slideshow by saying “guys do it all the time.” I would submit that there isn’t a guy anywhere that’s put together a Powerpoint presentation like this. Why? Because a guy would have to be a massive nerd to do so, which would keep him from getting laid that much in the first place.

    [Editor: He would also have to secretly resent the women in his life to so name them in a similar powerpoint expose and share with friends, and perhaps nurse a strong feeling of betrayal by the women. Which leads me to believe that Miss Owen -- contrary to her grrl power defenders claiming her oddly reflective powerpoint proves she wasn't interested in relationships and could fuck wantonly like any man -- was badly hurt by the cold treatment from one or more of the athletes she surrendered her well-worn body to.]


  63. An excellent post…I’ve been waiting for someone to tell it like it is with this skeez-stress. A sign of the times that this trash got so much (positive) news coverage. Move American doomsday clock another notch closer to midnight.


  64. Crap, typing on a smartphone – hard as hell to edit on this thing. I meant to say: “it easily veers from proper outing of ideologically driven confirmation bias on the left to equally maddening ideologically driven confirmation bias on the RIGHT, both from Roissy and his posters.”

    I think Roissy’s analysis of this episode (like so many others) is quite correct (and I would LOVE to see some of these folks contend seriously with his arguments instead of the avoidant tactic of dismissing them as misogynist), but he undercuts his own arguments with footprints that make one wonder if he has ideological motives of his own (such as the “racism” charge regarding the Duke rape case when he knows full well he wouldn’t have applied that word had the players been black and the stripper white, just as liberals would have had their preferred victim narrative confounded.


  65. wow.

    “Owned” is the only appropriate word here.


  66. menschken

    …do you think he would ever use the word “racism” to describe the same scenario were it, say a white stripper who lied about a black fraternity or sports teams lecherousness (or would you?)

    Unequivocally, yes.

    Trouble is, no story of black gangrape on white females EVER reaches Mainstream Media.

    do a google search on it.
    Kudos, for typing all that on a phone btw…


  67. I know full well that the double standard exists, and for good, obvious evolutionary psychology reasons and trying to change it would be to change everything. Of course feminists are going to spin this episode as “empowering” if a chick does it and “misogyny” if a guy does it, just like a conservatives quite often have one reaction with one set of roles and the opposite when roles are reversed on this and other issues.

    Clearly Roissy was right on the money in his psychological diagnosis of this situtation, as I knew he would be.

    On a side note, did you guys see William Saletan links Roissy’s post last week regarding the anal sex revelations from the sex survey, but lamely dismissed it as a “misogynist blog”? Roissy commenters were linked like 9 times in the article see “reason #10″:

    http://www.slate.com/id/2270622/


  68. Once again it is time for me to post a link to my video about the duke rape case!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/robertsmith2004?feature=mhsn#p/a/u/1/Vwk1wzBqYnY


  69. Gorb

    The college stuck by the female student, and the male was suspended. He sued the university and they settled out of court for a massive sum of money, and he transferred the next year.

    Good for him. More men should sue universities over their bs suspensions when women have next day or week buyer’s remorse.

    The woman never came under any scrutiny and was lauded for fighting for women’s rights.

    What tended to be the attitude of guys on campus to all this?


  70. “Note to self, teach hypothetical kids to throw before counting. Yeah, the pretty lies guys tell themselves, the engineering students like to think that they” benefit in the end for their higher post-grad paychecks and “personalities.””

    I think the lie that you’re telling yourself in this instance is that your kids aren’t going to inherit your crappy athletic ability.

    Yeah, “teach them” indeed.


  71. “Unequivocally, yes.”

    Maybe, but you really think the obvious gleefully triumphantly iconoclastic tone would have accompanied it?

    I think the strongest part of Roissy’s views (although his strange mix of libertine gloating and strong moralism is really bizarre) is he correctly sees the tension between individual rights (and the rights of population outliers among genders, for example) and strong social structures on which those rights are predatory and he correctly ascertains how liberals are often tone-deaf to that tension. Although, unlike Roissy, I am not happy with any of the tradeoffs – I don’t want to see individual rights of the social variety sacrificed on the altar of “social stability” while I recognize that this only works so long as most people value social stability and have pretty mainstream conception of their individual needs. This is similar to how conservatives don’t want individual rights of the economic variety sacrificed for the public good. I find it odd that neither side can seem to understand the other when both have spheres in which they happily accept the tradeoff between individual rights and the social good.

    I recognize that my liberal individual rights concerns (not wanting to have kids, cosmopolitan wanderlust, etc.) are utterly predatory on the need for most people to not act like I do. And the outlier needs of maybe 20% of the female population are reliant on making sure most women act mostly in accord with traditional gender roles. I wish there were a good way to quietly allow individuals to be individuals while recognizing and incentivizing behaviors that fostered social stability, but I am increasingly pessimistic about it.


  72. mencken- i’ve had the same opinion about this blog for a while.


  73. Let me explain the double standard, whereupon a male who sleeps around is a stud and the female equivalent is a slut.

    Any woman 4 or better can get laid any night of the week by a man, and usually by the man they have attraction towards. In short, a woman has thousands and thousands of opportunities for sex presented to her throughout her life.

    Men are opposite. Since most men are betas by definition, these men will only get offered sex (by different women) maybe 5 times in their whole entire life. Some not at all. When the opportunity presents itself the man may be sick, feel tired, jerked himself 3 hours ago etc. but he will always take the woman up on sex. Our biology has told us not to miss these crucial opportunities for reproduction.

    And let’s not forget the 1000 pound biological elephant in the room. A few hundred eggs. Billions of sperm.

    So if a woman chooses to have sex all the time, she’s a slut because virtually any woman can do it.

    If a guy has sex all the time, he’s an alpha who has a special “key” to unlock the poon. Very few guys can do this consistently.


  74. Just to add, Chateau is right on the money here: this is a high t chick who goes after jocks. To each her own.


  75. You are right on target with your high serum testosterone in slut women theory. Check out the massive manjaw on the author Diane Athill. The title of the UK Mail Online artilce is “Men? Oh gosh, there were a lot of them… confessions of a promiscuous 90-year-old”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-512769/Men-Oh-gosh-lot–confessions-promiscuous-90-year-old.html#ixzz12BQlgtCP


  76. Also, I am thinking the Duke date rape debacle had as much to do with class resentment as race demagoguery. I mean, who doesn’t love the narrative of entitled rich pricks being outted as piggish louts?

    I would wager if a group of known liberals (say it had been the Duke Young Democrats or some other liberal student organization) had been accused of mistreating a black stripper, the quick rush to judgement on right-wing blogs would have mirrored that of the mainstream press in the Duke rape case and the immediate narrative would have been about “liberal hypocrisy” etc.

    I think everyone has a very, very hard time (myself included…myself ESPECIALLY) leaving their pre-existing ideological commitments and resentments (and I have plenty!) out of their cold analysis of facts and their framing of arguments. Who doesn’t get a frisson of excitement to see someone they instinctively hate taken down a peg?


  77. on October 12, 2010 at 5:56 pm Stud Dynamite

    The depressing part is how fugly and dumb she is. This is who you screw being a Duke lacrosee jock and what omega nerds are crying about being passed on for those jocks? Almost cried leaving Russia last time, пиздец нахуй блядь.


  78. I am surprised Roissy hasn’t read (or if he has, hasn’t commented on and recommended) Roy Baumeister’s new book “Is There Anything Good About Men: How Cultures Flourish by Exploiting Men”. You guys would love it and I am awaiting some serious feminist commentary on it. He gave a talk on it that can be read here:

    http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm

    The feminist vitriol poured on this guy in various corners of the web is both misplaced and demonstrates they haven’t even read his argument.


  79. @Legion
    Gorbachev, that is infuriating. No matter how many times one reads about these things, it still stirs up a visceral, murderous loathing for these cunts. They seem to completely lack any conception of the intense, permanent damage inflicted by their careless “rape” accusations. Fucking myopic soulless fuckbags.

    Geez, this one was old news. That was happening on a daily basis when I was in college. There were Take Back The Night marches and No Means No campaigns. When one (female) student spoofed it all by writing up an “Agreement to Fornicate” agreement (6 pages… you had to read it) and put it up around campus as a semi-serious bit of mockery, some humorless cunts too it seriously, and then blew their feminist stacks a day later when they realized they were being had. There was a witch hunt and cries of institutional abuse of women.

    When the author came forward, and she was a she, the furor died right down – immediately. Had it been a male student, …

    I’ve no idea what it’s like now, but back then, it was a nightmare of epic proportions.

    Basically, if you wanted to avoid accusations or potential risk, the rule was:

    Never have sex with female humans.

    Then again, there were actual real women, ie almost all of them, and they tended to think the feminazis were a bunch of retarded cunts.

    I wonder what those retarded feminazis are up to these days.


  80. dragnet

    @ Firepower

    “I’d say “I bet her dad’s real proud” – except the 40-ish swpl beta drone probably is proud.”

    Believe it or not, the girl’s dad is actually a small-town Baptist preacher.

    Then her public indiscretion will amount to no more than nervous giggles at Thanksgiving.

    It once was a dreaded insult to merely imply a female had fucked an entire football team, now – psht. It’s internet funtime to actually fuck an entire team.

    Some old DWG once said (I paraphrase) the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

    So, when demonstrated sexual avarice of females demands a paternity DNA test to keep her faithful – why marry? There is NO reason to marry today; this spreads the remaining ashes of the once fine Family Institution.

    Not only was that price vigilance, but now Americans are too ignorant to even know how to spell “vigilance.”

    If a Baptist Preacher’s daughter whores it up, the expectations of strippers has suddenly plummeted.

    Lucky me!


  81. If she doesn’t do a book deal or go into porn, she is going to wait until things die down and change her name.

    This is why guys should background check before committing to a woman. You never know if the seemingly nice girl in front of you has a sordid past (or may even have been a prostitute).

    Of course if you don’t commit, you don’t have this problem. But you still have to worry about diseases that condoms don’t protect against. Though in Karen Owens’ sexual escapades, condoms don’t seem to be featured.


  82. REALITY CHECK

    If these girls were really being raped they be dead too.

    What genuine, honest-to-goodness, flag waving, mom and apple pie loving rapist is going to commit a capital offense (risk getting life in prison or life in the electric chair) and leave the main witness of the ‘crime’ breathing?

    Rape = BS

    Re women and sex:
    I recall a documentary about house cats. Female cats go into heat (i.e., their bodies enter periods of intensely craving sex), yet her male cat gentleman caller virtually has to pin her down until the act is completed. After which she throws him off and screams the kitty equivalent of “He raped my meow-meow!”.

    Women act the same way.


  83. @Doug1

    Gorb

    The college stuck by the female student, and the male was suspended. He sued the university and they settled out of court for a massive sum of money, and he transferred the next year.

    Good for him. More men should sue universities over their bs suspensions when women have next day or week buyer’s remorse.

    They hate calling in the cops because then they need things like evidence, they have the assumption of innocence (a real stick in the craw for feminists, for whom male=guilty in all occasions and a major inconvenience for keeping the public burnings on schedule), and then the whole thing goes public and they can’t stay in their cloistered little college pansy world where they make up the rules as they go.

    I say: If it’s rape, get the damned cops in first, make it all about the criminal trial and then deal with the academic aftermath – when there’s a hard-core conviction in a serious court of law.

    Short of that, STFU. I don’t know how well that attitude goes over.

    I also have no idea how such things are conducted now.

    I only ever heard directly about the one case, and indirectly about lots of others – it was like an epidemic at the time.


    The woman never came under any scrutiny and was lauded for fighting for women’s rights.

    What tended to be the attitude of guys on campus to all this?

    You’re kidding, right?

    We shut up and pretended all was good with the world.

    La lalalalalalala I can’t hear you, lalalalalalala.

    If you opened your mouth in 1994 you risked having it slammed shut hard.

    Only manginas were free to speak. And then only under strict supervision.

    Maybe some college types can tell us how it is these days.


  84. Menk,
    DIAF. Your original and deep thoughts about “what if the races/sexes were reversed” is worthless. Concentrate on driving your bus, get off the blackberry.


  85. @Roissy “double standards exist and life isn’t fair”
    No, NOT double standards; DIFFERENT standards. I’m surprised Roissy of all people would make that mistake. Needless to say, the DIFFERENT standards applied to men and women regarding sexual history are not unreasonable, and in any event will always remain.


  86. The girl in white looks like she will rape you, like she will start talking with you and then just headbutt you in the teeth and drag you into an alley. Damn those are some ugly broads. I miss Marilyn Monroe.


  87. @Mencken

    I can’t be bothered to read your massive text blocks of gibberish. CR’s point is that while the feminists want to pretend that the sexes are equal, they are, in fact, NOT equal.

    So he demonstrates the absurdity of ‘equality’.

    If an alpha male reported banging dozens of college girls, why would any of us be surprised by the alpha’s behavior? He is merely doing what men are wired to do.


  88. lozzlzozlzozlzlozzlozlzozlzozlzlzlzoz

    karen owne is teh aprgaodn of teh emepoewere beernkaified fiat funded feminist womenz fmeinsts slzozlzlzlzlzlzl

    HEY ROISSY!!!
    YOUR WRITING FUCKING ROCKSSS!!!!

    HOWS COMENS YOU DONT HAVE TENURE AAT 3 UNIEVIRTEIES AND 4 BOOKS ON TH NT BESTSELLER LIST???!?!?!

    oh oh i fogorot cenetral bakrers rule the publishing industryt and unievriteies by t pwoer of their fiat press zlzozllzzlzlzoz but now that thir dollar is going down as fast as karen owen on a duke athleete maybe tehir presse publishing hoses uiversisteis will get bttfucked liket their faviroete buttehxula her neocone butthexual hero tucker max rhyme siwth goldmansax zoxloxlxxllx


  89. I lied, still here.

    The chic in the white… That’s what happens when a women goes to the MAC counter and some part-time drag queen makes up her face.

    The drag-queens call it “beating” your face when they apply super heavy makeup.

    Real Men don’t let their women wear MAC cosmetics.


  90. Damn, those chicks are in their 20s? They look to be in their mid to upper 30s. It really isn’t the years, but the miles that’ll do you in, and their odometers have definitely been flipped.


  91. ttp://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/11/the-crisis-of-the-humanities-officially-arrives/?hp

    Speaking of the rot which infests our universities, the link above should offer some solace to those who despise ivory tower types. I have nothing against French and German studies, but this guy sounds really, really entitled. Complains like a woman. He likely votes with them. Notice how he complained the President scheduled a Townhall for Friday afternoon when few people would hang around! I don’t know about his place, but Friday pm at my place is a frenzy of activity. We private sector people all “hang around.”

    Anyhow, about that Duke lady. Many women (There are exceptions!) are just as dumb as dirt. Would even the lowest beta bother with her now? Whatever for. The beta would reject her for low morals, and the alpha for the low status screwing her would imply for him. However, she serves a purpose. Her behavior, although extreme, is not unlike the behavior of many women who are more discrete.


  92. “Long term romance fail. When a girl is careful not to talk to a lover in public for fear of creating an awkward moment that might kill the budding romance, you know you are dealing with a slut shooting way out of her league and, in the big picture, a dating market beautifully arranged to the maximum advantage of alpha males. This truly is the golden era for single men with game who have wisely avoided the trap of marriage.”

    No argument. The prosecution rests.

    Roissy, you have nailed the real significance of the Duke Fuck List. The list isn’t a tell-all expose’ that humiliates men.

    It humiliates this slut.


  93. Here’s some real insight for ya, Penelope and assorted Jizzabelers — Karen Owen has royally fucked up her chances to extract marriage from a good man thanks to her intemperate decision to write about, share and, consequently, archive for the masses for all eternity her insatiable hunger for a variety of lacrosse cock.

    You boys are pretty entertaining sometimes

    [Editor: Try not to discharge into your panties.]

    — This explanation is nice and cool, except for the fact that … well it isn’t true. This girl, who presumably isn’t white trash, being a Duke student and all that will be able to find a husband someday.

    [Who are you, Nostradamus? Regardless of your claimed ability to see the future, what matters as much as her finding a man willing to marry her is the quality of the man from whom she can extract commitment. Sluts, particularly sluts whose antics are recorded for posterity, will face a harder time landing a husband who isn't a loser in some important way. That's because men with few options have to sacrifice a lot of their standards just to get some action. So Karen Owen will always have a strong lesser beta and omega market in which to shop.]

    In fact this brings to mind a thought I’ve had before which is this you boys: You boys are trying to argue both sides of the issue at the same time. Lol

    [I'm guessing that lol is femspeak for owowow.]

    See, here you’re saying that the rampent sluttyness automatically voids this girls’ ability to find a marriage partner.

    But then if you look at the “Dating market scale for women” (which is no less then a sticky at the top of the page) there is:
    one, No mention of a girl’s sluttyness or even her perceived sluttyness. Yep that’s right — this is priority Z, behind things like “manhands” lol.

    [In the interest of space, sluttiness was left off the DMV test for women. The updated version will include it. Anyhow, the DMV is more a test determining a girl's short-term attractiveness to men.]

    two, Some of your plus points are clearly signs of sluttyness. Like “I’m a contortionist” equals more than 10 sexual positions, and “I do anal and looooove giving blowjobs”, are PLUS points. (And don’t give me that line about “oh, that’s within a committed relationship” — remember this is a Dating Market thing, for girls who are On that “market” lol)
    ya know what these are? These are *exactly* the sort of qualities that a girl like Karen would have, under the radar, had her friend not been careless enough to release the data to everyone in the world.

    [Some of the best sex I've had was with fairly chaste women. You wouldn't believe how experimental a modest girl can get when she unleashes with a man she loves. Also, read closer. Expert blowjob technique is an indicator of sluttiness, not proof. A chaste girl can be trained to perform fellatio to a man's exacting standards in only a few sessions.]

    So — I see it as, there’s a fence, and there are two sides.
    One side is, a girl should be as chaste and virginal as possible in order to have a high “Market Value” lol.
    The other side is, a certain degree of sluttyness is a good thing.
    You boys are trying to be on both sides of the fence at the same time. You know what happens to your balls when you try to straddle a fence! Lol

    [You're not really loling, are you.]

    Oh, and, as far as your thought that slutty girls can’t find acceptable partners: Quick, fill in the blank with “alpha” or “beta”
    The kind of guy who would marry Jenna Jameson (and who jenna would wanna marry too) is a ___________

    [Jenna Jameson now or Jenna Jameson many years ago when she was still hot?]

    Thats what I thought. Lol

    [Depends on the caliber of man. If he's high status and has his choice of women, then the answer to your question is "a fool".]


  94. I’ve heard anecdotally of guys who’ve kept similar records on their female conquests.

    [Editor: I keep it in my head. I don't make a Powerpoint out of my memories. This is true for most men.
    Now a hardcore porn montage of lovers for old age masturbation purposes? That's another story.]

    I think it’s interesting that the man she rated the highest was the one who had been in a previous steady relationship, & that she specifically references that relationship.

    I’d suspect that whether she admits it to herself or not, she felt hurt by at least some of these guys & that there was an element of ‘I’ll show them’ in her presentation.

    [No doubt. She wants love, and she thinks that putting out will help her in that goal, but her actions are working against her. She needs guidance from elder women who know better.]


  95. So this whole Fuck List thing demands that the Duke guys she put out for rate her in turn. I’d be interested to hear their rating of her according to her own criteria. Here’s a theory:

    1. She’s a 6-7
    2. Her vag was sub-par
    3. Her talents were average
    4. Her creativity was “desperate” and amusing
    5. She was sorta aggressive, like all drunk chicks with an agenda
    6. “Entertaining”? FFS
    7. She had no real “athletic” ability, you f’in couch potato
    8. “Bonus” was that her lame PowerPoint has let me come forward with the usual whatever.

    What’s good for the floozy is good for the philanderer. She makes me laugh.

    Oh, watch the Hollywood pic tank at the box office.


  96. @Audrey

    I think our dear leader said high quality man. When you ask betas who never get laid, they answer such things as you describe. When you ask the men women want, and if the question would involve a wife, they would indeed give it great weight. Good try at being snarky, however.


  97. BTW, Audrey, for what its worth, man hands and big feet are both deal killers with me.


  98. By the way, game clinic here:

    Forget the Duke slut. We can all do (yes, do) a world of better.


  99. on October 12, 2010 at 7:06 pm Vincent Ignatius

    She’s a slut, but she’s clearly not a super villain. Like CR said
    “…her male-oriented brain assuming the girlfriends would be loyal to her and not pass it on to the wider public. Big mistake.”

    She was stupid for assuming her “friends” would keep this a secret, but I don’t believe she intended to hurt these men in this way.


  100. Good. At least two levels of humiliation, then.


  101. You deserve a MacArthur Genius Grant for what you do.

    The fact that you haven’t gotten one shows how rotten to the core they are.


  102. @feh

    Yes. The guys should rate her, in turn. Ideally in an internationally televised web cast. All in the name of EQUALITY, of course. Equality is a word women constantly repeat, but have truly no idea what it would mean if literaly enforced (I.e., their standard of living would drop at least 50% if sex equality became reality).


  103. Great post. I have been waiting to hear you pontificate on this subject and you sum things up with great clarity and finality, sort of like the Pope issuing a definitive statement on bestiality or something of that nature.

    The intellectual contortions that the feminists are putting themselves through on this is hilarious. As you point out so well, they just never seem to get that a girl fucking a lot of guys is very different than a guy fucking a lot of girls. Probably because most feminists are ideologically blinded hags, they never experienced male attraction and desire, and so think most girls are like them and had to work for sex.

    The bottom line is that no man will ever want to be in a serious relationship with her, let alone marry her, except the most desperate beta bitch boy, whom she will inevitably despise and cheat on.

    And if this story is true, most of the guys on that list are only going to get more pussy from girls when the girls find out about the list. If a guy is an alpha jock with a big cock, girls will want to fuck him like flies want to eat shit.


  104. Because of biology and the Pill (to use a shorthand), the joke is on feminists.

    Future Cat Ladies of the World, unite! The only thing you have to lose is … your brains!


  105. “Men are opposite. Since most men are betas by definition, these men will only get offered sex (by different women) maybe 5 times in their whole entire life.”
    You are getting betas mixed up with omegas.


  106. Is Karen whatshername’s [Editor: The name is Owen. OWEN. It's in the post like a hundred times.] body really that well worn? If not for emotional damage, would her 13 ONS with different men be more damaging than a history of 500 sessions with 1 boyfriend of 3 years?

    [It's a figure of speech meant to convey the ravaging her psyche will take. As for her body, anecdotally I do notice that chicks who sleep around look older for their age than chicks in LTRs.]


  107. on October 12, 2010 at 7:37 pm Blessent mon coeur

    “Karen Owen has royally fucked up her chances to extract marriage from a ___good man___ thanks to her intemperate decision to write about, share and, consequently, archive for the masses for all eternity her insatiable hunger for a variety of lacrosse cock… What man worth his yarbles in character, money, career, looks, charm and/or social status is going to use Karen Owen for anything more than a hole in which to dump a perfunctory fuck? What high status man would marry a slut with a tap sheet a mile long, her every clitoral flutter registered in loving detail in ASCII, jpeg and png for his friends to read and laugh at?” Emphasis added.

    It’s worse than that. You know that saying about a chain being only as good as it’s weakest link? Men don’t marry in a vacuum. It’s a public event. Even in this decadent age, lotsa men have a brother or sister, or maybe more, and cousins. Parents are usually still alive. And then, most guys who can marry (note, marriage is way down), have jobs and some friends. So there’s a sort of opposite rule, like, at certain times, a man is as strong as the strongest man in his pack. Weak, even marginal men, in fact, especially marginal men, would be loathe to marry this girl too. Not out of pride, or even foolish pride, but because they would have to overcome a huge social hurdle vis a vis their pack, their family, their social group and groups. This would not be a blessed or approved marriage –or, it would face more obstacles than usual. A guy would really have to be ‘special’ to deal with her well.

    She might do better to change her name after graduation; move to Europe –from the looks of her, I’d recommend Spain or Portugal, maybe France or Italy, somewhere where she’ll blend in as a brunette; drop all but her hometown/oldest girlfriends –freeze-out the whole Duke crowd; go hard-core churchy. Basically start a whole new identity.


  108. Pilate alludes to it. NSFW, Brett Favre is hung like a canary.

    http://deadspin.com/5658206/brett-favres-cellphone-seduction-of-jenn-sterger

    Brett Favre, come on down! You are the next contestant on ‘Tons of Fame, no Game!’


  109. Four years at college, and she only had a dozen sexual encounters worth bragging about. Looks like she was up for some form of sex with random guys at any time.

    With the standard “only 10% of guys are alpha enough to brag about”, I put the over/under on the number of guys she’s sucked, tugged, and anal with is easily five times that.

    Even with the standard 3x rule, she’s done 40 guys in four years. All of whom ultimately rejected her. No wonder she did the bitterbitch pdf.

    Roissy gave this the minimum going over, and still pwned the silly girl.


  110. on October 12, 2010 at 7:45 pm Vincent Ignatius

    @Black Rebel
    Brett Favre, come on down! You are the next contestant on ‘Tons of Fame, no Game!’

    BAH! I banged a girl who looked just like that by sending this text “Come meet for drinks at [redacted]?”


  111. Fuck yea! Fucking awesome post bro. This shit just made my day. Definitely goes down in the pantheon of epic Roissy posts, right next to the Hanna Rosin takedown.


  112. Can’t wait to see the chump that tries to turn this ho into a housewife.


  113. Black Rebel

    Pilate alludes to it. NSFW, Brett Favre is hung like a canary.

    Brett Favre, come on down! You are the next contestant on ‘Tons of Fame, no Game!’

    My friend says that’s only because he has the largest hands in the NFL; too bad he’s not black, or he could done fathered 349 baby already.


  114. @ Vince – It’s not nearly as nauseating as Tiger’s fall, but I mean come on…The best Quarterback of all time, was a QB in University at a small-but-not-too-small school, and this is how he deals with his women?

    Some things don’t work by osmisis, I guess.


  115. Hey Roissy,

    How many different guys do you think Karen Owen has gotten off, one way or another?


  116. blk rebel, Jen looks like a NAM.

    IF she isn’t she should stay away from the self tanner. Brown Hair+ brown eyes = NAM or guilty by association.

    Pilate alludes to it. NSFW, Brett Favre is hung like a canary

    He can make up for that in other ways.


  117. Tito Ortiz – Jenna Jameson’s husband – is a UFC fighter and former champion, but he’s a fool. He has numerous psychological issues, and is an exception to the rule. Audrey invoking it as an example shows how weak her case is.

    Audrey, if you persist in your argument – prepare your anus.


  118. I think this Brett Favre thing is a setup. It’s not the uber-beta voicemails, but the dick pics. C’mon, she shows no interest and he’s gonna try to impress her with small cock pics? And risk getting outed in the media?

    Favre isn’t that stupid.


  119. Mencken, no offense, but you are a fruitcake. Men and women ARE different. Let me tell you that as a woman, I consider this specimen a pathetic whore who I wouldn’t want as a friend. I wouldn’t give her a car ride and I wouldn’t share class notes with her. She’s a pathetic attention seeking slut. If a man did this, I wouldn’t see him as a pathetic loser. And double standards are fine and dandy. Men and women aren’t the same, sunshine. Men chase, we chose. Period. Or well, whores chase too. You are the typical person that is against feminism and this is the biggest problem. Instead of realizing that ‘heck, we’re different’ you go deeper into the equality non-sense. Sure, we must give paternity leave and draft women! The truth of the matter that all the idiocy of feminism needs to be destroyed and all its effects dismantled. We don’t need to go deeper into forcing equality upon things, we need to do away with equality. Also, individualism and social stability are mutually exclusive things, especially in diverse societies since there each group of people prefers doing something else(and there are tons of free-ridership issues). You can have both only when groups, like men in this case, don’t seek their own interests and dominate others. Ha, fuck Western civilization!

    Audrey, you have no idea of how men think. But again, being a feminist moron isn’t making this conclusion that surprising. A woman’s willingness to give blowjobs is an indicator of sluttiness, but not the sluttiness is what the men like. I will let you guess what it is. And please, I don’t know any man who cares about the degree of a woman or her career. The best anecdote I have of this is a man that is romantically interested in me proposing me to have my MBA tuition at UNC paid by him if that’s what I want to do and get married, but he thinks a wife should be a housekeeper. It was amusing to me because you don’t need a MBA graduate cook, you know? This pretty much sums it up. And the guy is, by the way, living in the triangle of insanity too and said that Duke students are the biggest whores. Well, he does enjoy shagging them, but he wouldn’t marry any of them. I wonder why. Oh, and the stunt this woman pulled isn’t really showing any intellectual prowess. Affirmative action for the win.


  120. on October 12, 2010 at 8:29 pm greatbooks4men

    I’d suspect that whether she admits it to herself or not, she felt hurt by at least some of these guys & that there was an element of ‘I’ll show them’ in her presentation.

    [No doubt. She wants love, and she thinks that putting out will help her in that goal, but her actions are working against her. She needs guidance from elder women who know better.]

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  121. @rebelliousvanilla

    Holy fuck. Honey, I think your rationalization hamster is defective. Either that or you somehow avoided feminist indoctrination. Or you’re a guy posing as a woman.

    Whatever it is, well said.


  122. –Monica Lewinsky provides a data point for studying the celebrity slut. She is now a late-thirties aged, single woman exiled to UK. No husband, no children.

    –disagree that manwhores are attractive to sane woman–a PUA fantasy. Most sane woman find manwhores gross.


  123. The point is not many folks even noticed that Karen Owen capriciously sampled dozens o’ cock and…

    ….never even had the feminine ideal of “a relationship” with any of them. Never came close.

    She is one icy cunt.


  124. @Chainring,

    It IS quite remarkable, isn’t it. And you thought the species was dead.


  125. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-20019305-10391698.html?tag=strip

    David Arquette sure is rebounding well. LOL. That gal has lovely blue eyes.

    Karen Owen will probably not rebound very well because a book with the details would not sell very well at this point. The public already has all the pertinent gossip. She ruined her reputation and will not even be paid for doing so.


  126. @anonymous

    Monica Lewinsky provides a data point for studying the celebrity slut. She is now a late-thirties aged, single woman exiled to UK. No husband, no children.

    Good data point. And her slutting it up was fucking the President. While Karen Owens fucked a bunch of mere college athletes. This will turn out poorly for her – or for the beta who fails to do a background check on her before marrying her.

    disagree that manwhores are attractive to sane woman–a PUA fantasy. Most sane woman find manwhores gross.

    Dunno about that. Some mid-20s virgin wants me to take her virginity – partly because she knows I’m experienced.


  127. Fucked up the quoting, but you can figure it out, I’m sure.


  128. We disciples are admonished to refrain from all forms of beta behavior, such as post-coital cuddling, snuggling or communicating beyond making arrangements for a threesome next time (FFM, of course). We are told that this contrarian behavior will increase our alpha standing in the eyes of the bitch. And yet, as Roissy points out, the Duke ho fell hardest for the dude who engaged in the following uber-beta behavior: “…intense level of eye contact”. “‘…if I get lucky you’ll wake me up with a kiss in the morning’”. “Him refusing to allow me to leave before noon”. “…how important it was to him that I got off as well”. Sure, he may not have been serious, but Roissy strongly implies that Owen was in fact yearning for this sort of beta treatment, albeit from an alpha. So I’m a bit confused. Is it OK/preferable for an alpha to act beta?

    [Editor: A little bit of beta makes the alpha go down easy.

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/01/29/vulnerability-game/%5D


  129. A girl recently accused me of being a “manwhore” and that “manwhores are gross” (it came up in the context of the show “2 and a half Men” – I asked her if she’d fuck Charlie or the nerdy other guy. She hesitated and said, “the nerd is so unnattractive…but charlie is a manwhore. So gross!”

    Not long later, my jizz was glistening on her lips.

    Ignore what women say. Ignore what they think that they believe. Just watch what they do.


  130. Re: Favre. I can see the rambling voice mail message, such as what I chose to listen to, being the work of a guy used to getting anything he wanted, stumbling and grasping upon trying to hook up with the first chick he genuinely wanted to cheat on his wife with (as czabe points out, a near twin), only to be shot down. Some of my natural friends, as they get older, stumble, as they sort of just think girls are supposed to act that way.

    I am pissed that this glorified stripper, a chick who hands out souvenir t-shirts on the sideline is allegedly a “co-worker” and that this is “workplace harassment.” She isn’t Betty down in accounting.

    Reading the deadspin article, the white-knight beta bitch interviewer seems to drag the admission from her, ignoring that hmmm, several men have, after flirty emails, seen fit to send her pictures of junk.

    One last thought regarding the Duke whore, sluts are women who are promiscuous but won’t sleep with you. What are the odds that these ten hook ups represent her hook-up career as she only spread for jock goodness. Meaning, she never got down and dirty for anyone who wasn’t part of the circle. Instead of lesbian til graduation, she was groupie until graduation. Or is did she just highlight the tip of her dick-berg? Even worse for the old hypergamy ant-farm, she never put out for anything lower than a solid varsity level alpha (although, she apparently never managed to score a relationship with one).


  131. chainring

    my son, blockquotes are for the very experienced among us. Learn you place son. Use italics until given permission to go to the next level.

    @men
    if your face isn’t much to look at, work on your body. there is something gina tingling appealing about a man with a good body. when he looks strong, when you run your fingers across his washboard abs.


  132. What amuses me the most about the Powerpoint presentation is its distinct lack of logic and/or quality writing. This is supposed to be the output of a student at a top 10 American university, right? So where’s the beef?

    Proof positive that many graduates of the overhyped “elite” institutions in our country are nothing but unimpressive, sycophantic, ass-kissing dumb slugs.


  133. omarion

    Proof positive that many graduates of the overhyped “elite” institutions in our country are nothing but unimpressive, sycophantic, ass-kissing dumb slugs.

    Which is why
    if you’re legacied to Harvard or Yale
    you inherit an American Duchy
    until fit to rule
    in the White Castle


  134. CR wrote:

    >For purposes of discussion, we’ll have to believe the story as reported: the hookups are real and she only meant to send her fuck list to a few (formerly) close girlfriends.<

    Find it hard to believe that this wasn't intentionally released by her. The close girlfriends stuff is just a flimsy story to cover her well used ass against accusations of having zero scruples.

    She's going for fame and fortune through brazen sluttery.


  135. what happens at this Duke university? Everything that is interesting happens there and not in other Ivy League schools


  136. @Chic

    I bet I have already said this, but you should write “Chic Noire” instead of “Noir”.


  137. “Did not bother to kiss more than a few seconds”

    The classic example of a girl who does not deserve a kiss is the prostitute. Will you kiss her, knowing how many cocks entered her mouth? Or her pussy?

    Avoidance of kissing is one of the biggest red flags for a girl, if she wants to know what the guy really thinks about her.


  138. http://thedirty.com/2010/06/i-stole-my-agents-sex-sheet/

    This list has already been done. The male version of this list.


  139. @ ChicNoir… BlahBlahBlah..” Whatever…Shouldn’t you be using this as yet another opportunity to talk trash about black men?


  140. –Monica Lewinsky provides a data point for studying the celebrity slut. She is now a late-thirties aged, single woman exiled to UK. No husband, no children

    Fish`n chips and cigars. That`s all she needs


  141. @ ChicNoir… BlahBlahBlah..” Whatever…Shouldn’t you be using this as yet another opportunity to talk trash about black men?

    naaaahh. ignore him, Chic. I am feeling compasionate tonight and I want to enlighten black people and teach them how to write in french.

    Then we move to the adding and subtracting stuff


  142. How much do you bet that the silly Miss Owens has a nice beta orbiter who’s just waiting to tell her that he loves her -that he’d always hold her in the morning.

    Girls like her will always find a sap who’s prepared to martyr himself on the altar of Romance.

    And she’ll divorce him in five years.


  143. By the way, her friend in the white dress is a man-man.


  144. cap’n bob wrote, “By the way, her friend in the white dress is a man-man.

    Trannies do makeup better than that.


  145. Penguin,

    In any case, they’re no tribute to the Ivy League system.

    I’ll make sure my daughters do correspondence courses.


  146. Cap’nB, I know! I forgot to mention that I bet she had a coterie of beta-boy friends listening to her bitch about the fall-out, or relationship lack thereof, from each hook up.


  147. I would argue that the story has legs, so to speak, more because of what it stand for to various people—hence the argument in Snapshot of the new workplace and the symbolic content of Karen Owen’s “horizontal academics.”


  148. Mencken,

    “his strange mix of libertine gloating and strong moralism is really bizarre”

    What would Odysseus have done if Penelope had decided to bang all the suitors before he even went to war?

    BTW, I remember reading a Mencken article about the monogamy of great men (Bismarck, et. al.), any chance you could track down the title?

    Only happens at the pinnacle of civilizations (see Odysseus, Marlborough, Washington, as well) when the alpha females have their shit together enough to keep everyone else in line.


  149. Audrey,

    Any man who is stupid enough to marry (not shtup, mind you but marry) Jenna Jameson, or any other porno-actress with a love canal wider than the channel tunnel and syphilis of the ass, is a lesser beta. At best.

    Any man with options isn’t going to marry Karen Owens on the ground that she’s a graduate of Duke. In fact, even the lesser omega fellow that Roissy showed in the Visualizing Omega post, would probably pass on her, given her history.


  150. Askjoe,

    The sad thing is, a lot of men have been down the beta orbiter route. It’s a dark place.

    This website would save a lot of them a lot of pain.


  151. “http://thedirty.com/2010/06/i-stole-my-agents-sex-sheet/

    This list has already been done. The male version of this list.”

    haha concise and to the point, down to the fifth decimal point lol.


  152. and doesn’t tucker max count?


  153. First time poster, long time reader:

    I am a male student at Duke. I know this hole in passing. In fact I hooked up with one of her friend that got mentioned a few times in that powerpoint (similar to this girl…not retarded enough to make a powerpoint about it).

    I find the whole Jezebel, feminist crowd’s assessment of this girl hysterical. Here are some points:

    To the feminist’s who are stating that she is an empowering “hot, sorority girl”. Truth: She isn’t in a sorority (not hot enough even by Duke standards to be in a decent one). She is one of the many mediocre looking girls at this school who will take it from many of the guys here as a way of assuaging their pain of: (a) not being attractive by Duke standards (b) not moving in the same circles as the guys listed on the powerpoint…note how everything happened at bars. Most respectable girls at Duke are snagged at house parties, hosted events, and late nights. (c) Decent girls at Duke generally won’t pull moves like this. Its a small school and if you get a reputation as a girl its hard as hell to remove it. No one dates a slut.

    I don’t toot my horn but these girls are very easy to snag from personal experience. At the end of the day there is really one way to explain why guys of status will stick it to this girl and her ilk: At 2AM (Durham closing time), when you are drunk as hell the pussy has no face.

    This is college. Just like any other college in the US, people involved in any social scene have a drinking problem as defined by the CDC. Unless you are a leper female, you can sleep with a decent guy over your 4 year Duke career. Now, will he stick around in the morning. No way in hell.


  154. Blue Blazer

    @ ChicNoir… BlahBlahBlah..” Whatever…Shouldn’t you be using this as yet another opportunity to talk trash about black men?

    who is this???

    Use you real handle fool!

    When do I bash blk men? I bash the element male and female alike.


  155. gig @Chic

    I bet I have already said this, but you should write “Chic Noire” instead of “Noir”.

    read my profile & figure it out gig.


  156. desiderius

    Mencken,

    “his strange mix of libertine gloating and strong moralism is really bizarre”

    For today’s beta, libertine gloating is a lost Art.


  157. on October 12, 2010 at 11:31 pm evel_knievel jajaja

    dude, this post was epic.


  158. This post should be forwarded to every single male from the ages of 14 – 30.

    Utterly fantastic.


  159. Another thought on Karen Owen’s circumstance :

    If Owen really wanted to win the love of one of the Lacrosse players and marry him, then sleeping with more than 2 of them was a mistake. She could probably sleep with one of them in the context of a relationship that didn’t work out, and the others wouldn’t immediately nix her from their lists of “possible long-term-romance-material”. But there is lockeroom talk amongst the boys. A chick who has had three one-night stands with members of the Lacrosse team is going to be known as easy-put-out material.

    Its not as if some of the guys might have not found her to be an O.K. chick, and pretty fun to hang out with……..but do the jocks really want to settle down and -DATE- a gal that they know half-of their teamates are laughing at him over behind his back? I can hear the snide remarks now.

    Unrelated artistic remark (about the blonde roomate): Commenter Thursday once got a little piqued at me for commenting on his blog about how many blonde women now hurt their appearance with their make-up application. Too many of them go very harsh on the eyeliner and lip-gloss or lipstick. They go for that “tough” and “severe” look, probably in projecting their attraction for tough-looking-severe-presenced alpha males. This blonde in the picture has done just that. The tanning lotion or bed she has laid in makes her look……..off……..in some way thats hard to describe. Her hair may or may not be chemically dyed, but there is something plastic-looking about her. She would do well to eat more Omega 3 fatty acids and good animal fats, and mimic those Estonian girls with her presentation and go for the au naturale kinda look. Thats usually the best thing for a blonde girl to do. Few blondes can pull off “tough girl” aesthetically. The ones who can generally have brown eyes.


  160. LOL @ tennis dude


  161. white dress has very nice legs.


  162. @Chic Noir…No black men degraded themselves in this situation.No black men degraded anyone else in this situation.No black men men had anything to do with any of this degrading,self-degrading stupid shit.Yeah,I know!Usually,shit like this,you gonna find more than a few black men involved.But not this time.Damn!!!But don’t let that stop you,Sistah.”Element?”Is that some codeword word for Coloret? I’m white,I don’t get shit like that.


  163. Rebellousianavill; your obviously hot; she’s not. You can get the guys you want with your dignity in fact; but she has to be more desperate. You’d do the same thing if you were in her shoes. Ya she should have fought ahead and settled for a beta; but who wants to settle. Don’t feel superior because you won the genetic lottery.


  164. It is a non-trivial detail that this chick is a PK (preachers kid). Preachers Kids are often a gold mine of bottled up, high pressure sexuality just aching to find an outlet. And they tend to be have a persistant, durable naivety in regard to sex/guys, etc. This is all a valid stereo-type, imho. Catholic school girls on the rebound can also seem like freaks; but for a near psychotic no-rules fuckorama try to find a born-again-again PK/slut.
    They still expect to marry a guy like their Dad, which they both love and hate.
    It is usually enough to delete their number and change your address.


  165. “Or did she just highlight the tip of her dick-berg?”

    good one AskJoe (at 10/12 9:45)


  166. Roissy at his finest. Pure brilliance.

    Also:

    “If you beat me at Mario Kart Wii, I might let you make out with me.”

    That is a killer line.


  167. Transsexuals enjoy best of the two worlds!


  168. Duke grad who nailed Karen two years ago. Just want to say that she is *amazing* in bed. I’m not an athlete and was thankfully spared making the list, but she was a lot of fun and up for anything in the sack. I actually found her quite attractive (then), but she was kind of too dumb to date. I had no idea she was such a slut though, and that, of course, would have disqualified her.

    Also, for the uninitiated, Duke is no longer a quality academic institution. It’s for rich kids and people from NJ who didn’t get into UPenn. Being a douche is required; family/alum connections are your career path, not your education.

    Am a Roissy reader. Surprised he hasn’t plumbed the depths of her report for validation of “alpha” characteristics. In particular, she seemed to go wild the more aggressive the guy was. May be something to be learned in her prioritizations of qualities.

    p.s. I didn’t really know those guys on the PPT, but good odds that at least 3 are gay.


  169. Her list of all her preys is nothing but a list of slut entertaining customers from elite class. She truly is a female chauvinist pig. USA is down for raunch culture where strong empowered women are not different than strippers, porn stars, or prostitutes.


  170. http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/a-chilling-realisation-of-how-close-i-might-have-come-to-rape-20101012-16hxg.html

    oh dear…
    Beta male journo writing how about he’s glad he didn’t go home with a drunk girl when he was 20.


  171. “I will leave them outside the building for you” is even better than: “Bring the Movies.”

    I agree with OneSTDV. Every guy age 14-30 should have this emailed to them.

    Note: what matters most, is Alpha jock studliness. Per the Blue Devil poster above, this seems just the tip of the dickberg. Probably far higher and its probably the same for most College and post-College women. Its so ridiculously easy for women to have sex that we can assume a number like 50 or so for a woman in her mid thirties is the likely number.

    Heck Courteney Cox screwed around, and she’s frightening Cougar time.


  172. This guy misappropriating the moniker of “Mencken” is insulting the legacy of the Bard of Baltimore with horrible writing. He seems to think that a mountain of stuffy, five-dollar words will make his writing smart, but the end result is without grace or art. Regardless of any possible truths that may be found there, I vault over these putrid cesspools of vexed verbosity.


  173. Actually what else should a girl like this do? Obviously settle for a beta but the whole five minutes v five years maxim says that won’t happen. If she was hot she could have had her fun and married and gone on thinking her father’s moral advice was bullshit. Now she’ll never get married. She’ll see her hotter friends also get married and wonder why those equally slutty whores can find a man while she can. At least we guys can learn game and improve our lot. Nothing she can do about her face. Makes me feel lucky to be a man.


  174. “I will leave them outside of the building for you.” has to be the single most Alpha line ever spoken


  175. chainring, I was a feminist for a while. Well, of the we are equal variety and I really wanted equality. I did have some insane debates related to this in my life that made me realize how foolish the thing is. But yes, where I live feminism doesn’t exist that much, nor do we have propaganda in schools.

    Ivan, I can get men to want me for more than a one nighter BECAUSE I’m not a whore. If I was one, they wouldn’t want me either. I’m not a perfect ten to be able to have a crappy personality, no integrity and still be able to have men want to commit to me. But having integrity plays a huge factor in today’s world because most women have none. I’ll give you an example. My boyfriend is fairly alpha(he has both status due to the job he has and has pretty good game) and yet he is completely disgusted by groupies and sluts. Virtue as a woman is a HUGE PLUS if you want marriage, especially since most women are fairly whorish. If I was a man, I’d pick a fairly modest virtuous 8 for marriage over a slutty 10 every single time. Sure, I’d prefer the latter for a one nighter, but it all depends on what you actually want. A proper relationship or being another bed notch.

    Something funny: when I found the PTT on the site where it was the first page was partially cropped and it said assroom academics instead of classroom. lol. Another funny thing is that I can’t imagine this happening in my university and there’s a joke that when the first virgin woman will graduate, a statue will collapse(inside uni joke), so I suppose my university isn’t really modesty central. But such degree of whoredom is unheard of! But again, we’d have to get some American women to improve in this regard.


  176. Am, that’s funny. Date rape ain’t rape. You say yes or actively pursue or participate in the act of sex makes you a slut, not a rape victim. The 2nd comment on that article is relatively amusing. I’d ask myself what was a 15 years old doing drinking booze at a party, but that’s just me. Bad parenting.


  177. Joey Giraud, you know what they say, imitation is a best form of flattery… that is if he tried to imitate. But his rudderless diarrhebosity leaves me cold and shivering (with disgust).

    blue dev, but she was kind of too dumb
    A fitting description that too many young ladies today seem to bear with pride. Or it may be “bare”. Not sure which.


  178. RV But again, we’d have to get some American women to improve in this regard.

    I’d bet the statue collapse is not imminent. Marathon Man: “It is safe”.


  179. Morsellaux, I have a virgin female classmate and we’re graduating in June. ;) lol.


  180. Rats! Statueclasts! :-)


  181. Okay, okay, its a long way to t… june. So maybe Marathon Man was right. But I wanna no longer be a bookie! :-)


  182. on October 13, 2010 at 2:49 am Gunslingergregi

    ”””””'(Analogy: our fear of plane crashes. People think plane crashes are more frequent than they actually are. Statistically you have a massively higher chance of dying in a car crash. We don’t hear about all the car crashes in the media, but we do hear about the plane crashes, so we get a slanted idea in our heads about their frequency and probability. Same with whores.)””””’

    Bad analogy. 50 percent of marriages fail.

    This isn’t some thing where the media is pulling some fucked up cases out of a huge population.
    The huge population has a 50 percent of failure and the guy getting reamed.


  183. Gun, someone may point out that the glass is half full. But that is not the case. Substantial segments of population aren’t marrying. So, the glass is definitely less than half full.


  184. @rebelliousvanilla

    chainring, I was a feminist for a while. Well, of the we are equal variety and I really wanted equality. I did have some insane debates related to this in my life that made me realize how foolish the thing is. But yes, where I live feminism doesn’t exist that much, nor do we have propaganda in schools.

    It’s not just the schools. It’s the entire culture – it’s full of feminist propaganda. You must not own a tv – good for you.

    If I was a man, I’d pick a fairly modest virtuous 8 for marriage over a slutty 10 every single time.

    I would venture that every single man who comments regularly on this blog feels this way.

    Since you seem to understand the true implications of the Duke fuck list, please pull your friends away from Sex and the City reruns and explain this to them.

    @Gorb
    Just when I had resigned myself to pumping and dumping American women, even into my 60s, some female has the nerve to show up here and actually *get it*.


  185. What will happen to such a slutty girl once she has open bared herself for crowds. Her parents must be awfully proud of her achievements! They sent her for higher education and she came out ‘highly’ educated sex starved kitten.


  186. Legion “Tito Ortiz – Jenna Jameson’s husband – is a UFC fighter and former champion, but he’s a fool. He has numerous psychological issues, and is an exception to the rule. Audrey invoking it as an example shows how weak her case is.”

    –> Oh I didnt even mean to single out JJ’s actual hubby, I dont know her personal life details.

    Two things here though

    one, I think your changing the definitions to suit yourself here, now “psychological issues” apparently rule out an alpha. When before it was all about potential to get laid or whatever, and some “psychological issues” (narcisism, sociopathic qualities etc) even contributed to alpha.
    Your really trying to say that Tito isnt an alpha? In that case we’re really getting into the territory of “alpha = whatever it should mean so I can be right and you can be wrong”

    two, I was referring to porn stars and they’re husbands and boyfriends in general. Most of the hbs/bfs are pretty “alpha” by whatever standards, a lot of them are porn directors, chopper shop guys, etc. You arent going to find these girls married to cookie cutter accountant type guys.
    Even though those guys would be all over the chance. Just go to AVN sometime and you’ll see exactly what I mean haha, those guys and their devotion get a little scary.


  187. capn bob “Any man with options isn’t going to marry Karen Owens on the ground that she’s a graduate of Duke”

    rebellious vanilla “And please, I don’t know any man who cares about the degree of a woman or her career”

    –> Oh that isnt what I meant, I don’t think that the school itself makes any difference.
    What I meant is that shes a white Duke girl, which pretty much tells us what we need to know about her social class. And shes from the social class where people *do* get married, with almost certainty, unless they are serious weirdo’s (guys) or get caught up in drugs, being an “assistant” to organized crime, or that sort of thing (girls). Otherwise, shell get married. Probably to a guy with some money too.

    I mean, that Washingtonienne blogger girl got married, and to some high powered lawyer no less. And she wasnt even a college student (with the “experimenting” excuse) when she did her thang.

    [Editor: That dude she married looked like a beta schlub. Figures. She had to slum it to get a ring.]


  188. @ r’vanilla:” Virtue as a woman is a HUGE PLUS if you want marriage, especially since most women are fairly whorish. If I was a man, I’d pick a fairly modest virtuous 8 for marriage over a slutty 10 every single time. Sure, I’d prefer the latter for a one nighter, but it all depends on what you actually want. A proper relationship or being another bed notch.”

    Holy crap a chick that ‘gets it’. There is hope. I guess American chicks have yet to learn the lessons of their elder cougars and cat ladies.


  189. chain, I do own a TV and I did watch Sex&The City. But most people here regard that as what it is – silly entertainment. It doesn’t mean we should all go out and slut it up. And we still have some social frowning upon slutty girls, unlike there. I don’t see it holding much longer(a generation or two tops) due to us importing your culture, but right now, you can lose friends if you’re slutty, especially earlier than college. In college people don’t really know each other that well and due to a larger ‘community’ things are different. But again, men here don’t pretend either like they do there that the number of sexual partners doesn’t matter.

    Getting back to the TV, I don’t watch TV anymore due to this reason. I didn’t go watch Avatar due to the same reason. The only thing I watch on TV are old cartoons since those aren’t the only ones without some political or social overtone.

    And I do try to explain this to women. I find it amusing that some are feminist in the same way that I was. They find it unfair that loose women are considered sluts, but they’d never slut it up(I had an argument on this with another virgin classmate of mine that is no longer virgin now). I had an argument that it’s unfair that men can walk around topless, while women can’t, despite the fact that I’d never walk around topless. I don’t really consider my country being modesty and chastity central, but here even women who slept around aren’t morally bankrupt like American women(as in they actually care about a man if they’d be in a relationship with them, unless they’re total gold digging whores, since we have those too). Still, you can find women to actually be in a relationship with around here. But we don’t really have a gender divide and as women we don’t think we’re identical to men.

    Funny anecdote: an older woman was finding the fact that women dare to smoke in public immoral and openly say this(and it was gendered, she didn’t mind men doing it). Try finding such people in America. And I will give you another one – if I was in this girl’s place and my father found out, besides beating me up, he’d kick me out of the house and NEVER talk to me again. And if I will have a daughter and she’d do this, I’d do the same(oh, and I won’t have a TV if I will have children).

    Morsellaux, there’s a catch. Some people may divorce more often than others and skew the statistics. If there are 100 couples and 90 never divorce, but the other ten marry and divorce each other ten times, then you will have 190 marriages, out of which 100 ended in divorce. Still, more than the divorce rate, I mind other things about the culture of the US. The daycare industry(here we do send kids to kindergarden, but nobody in their sane mind would put children under three in a daycare), the acceptance of single motherhood(here out of wedlock children have their parents either marry or at least raise them together without marrying) and so on.

    Ugh, there went my commenting reduction – thanks Polymath with your links. :P


  190. Oh and theres one more really important factor in these discussions of sluttyness that always seems to be left out here, and that’s the idea that it just isnt the same thing to be a slut now, as it was back in the day.

    What I mean is this:
    The *risks* of being slutty before the last few decades were huge. Most importantly, no reliable birth control = your likely to get pregnant = your gonna be having either a kid or a low tech abortion. Also, go back a couple more decades, before the tuskagee studies were done and an STD like syphilis = your brain is literally going to rot in your head.
    Ya the social stigma’s of sex have changed too, but who knows how much of that comes from these changes in literal risks.

    So the point is, I dont really think women have necessarily gotten any sluttier, if you make it a constant risk type of scale. Meaning, the “bad girl” of the roaring twenties who’d kiss a bunch of boys, and bed a few was probably taking the same risk (or even more risk) than a college girl hitting it with a hundred guys today.

    I mean, it’s almost like this: the old days was like getting into a real car accident, but now is like getting into some video game car accident where your car just flips a few times, then turns over, you lose 10 seconds and you get to drive it again. Would you be surprised if people started driving more aggressively, and getting into more wrecks with those reduced concequences?
    Its the same thing guys, Women are women are women are women love us or hate us. The only thing thats changed is the penalties.


  191. On this subject, Tom Wolfe’s ‘I Am Charlotte Simmons: A Novel’ is a good read.

    On reviewer on Amazon has this to say:

    > And what he finds is this: That despite drastic cultural changes, some aspects of college life persist because they are so firmly rooted in unchangeable human behavior. Jocks and other BMOCs (big men on campus) rule because they are the alpha males that the girls want. It’s biology. The girls can’t help themselves from wanting them, even less so in today’s amoral climate where women are free to do whatever they want in college.

    Wolfe delivers the expected campus satire. (Actually, it hews so close to reality it may be unfair to call it “satire.”) The bullying coach has his own power base and million-dollar advertising deals, and ridicules any player who actually wants to get an education. The angry Asian feminist intellectual perceives any heard remark as an insult against some victim group, to which she responds with a foul-mouthed gusto her male companions can only dream of matching. The aging radical professor still wages war against jocks and fascists. The sorority girls are slutty and drunken snobs totally preoccupied with status, parties and clothes. The frat boys are drunken morons preoccupied with sex, parties and sports. And so on. <


  192. If this Owen character is shorter than 5’8″ I’d pass completely on her. In Eastern Europe she would be a 7 if tall enough and a 6 otherwise. Her blonde friend is just heinous. I’m meeting two far better for lunch.

    For fun, check out this article on all the Marxist feminist Democrat women about to be removed from Congress:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43445_Page2.html

    It was written by one of their number, who laments how Barbara Boxer, the original authoress of the unconstitutional Violence Against Women Act, is in political trouble now.

    Then there’s this article on how old Hollywood actresses are dissing the younger actresses out of jealousy:

    http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b99242_hilary-faye_feud_continues.html

    The latest news is that Joan Collins just said that Jennifer Aniston “isn’t very pretty”…which is basically the pot calling the kettle black.

    Now check the comments of this article about a porn actor or actress testing HIV positive. Note the assholes who consider themselves “conservative” but feel that men who have sex deserve to get AIDS:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/10/porn-actor-has-tested-positive-for-hiv-industry-clinic-officials-confirm.html

    We shouldn’t have to share the Republican Party with Omegas like that (that kind of socon rails against sex because he’s married to a woman he’s not attracted to and doesn’t have the guts/ability to change his situation).

    Finally, who’s this Saudi Arabian prince trying to fool:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8059246/Saudi-Prince-slept-in-double-bed-with-manservant.html

    He killed the boyfriend he came to London with. I was wondering why Saudi princes weren’t funding blogs like this. Now I know – they’re not interested in meeting women.


  193. Noticed something about the highly-rated man. She comments the “…intense level of eye contact”, “his blue eyes”, “…how important it was to him that I got off as well”.

    … and “THE SIZE OF HIS DICK”

    Anyone care to wager that his dick was average size and she only found it bigger (and more enjoyable) because of being enamored with other stuff? When the whole experience is satisfying for the woman, even a small dick might start feeling “huge” to her in retrospect.


  194. Audrey, socially it is the same thing. Sluts are more likely to divorce men, they’re of worse moral character, less pleasant to be around overall and I can go on. So only an idiot would marry a slut, even if she’s less likely to have another guy’s kids by the time you’d put a ring on her finger or STDs. So risk is irrelevant. I’d rather marry, if I was a man, the slutty girl of the roaring twenties than a relatively modest woman of today – the moral integrity of the latter is far more degraded than the one of the former.

    And this could be tested. Do away with affirmative action for women any law that favours us in employment, do away with child support, alimony, skewed divorce laws, welfare for single mothers, subsidized daycares and we will see what the truth is. The problem isn’t that the risks are smaller, the problem is that costs of being a whore are externalized on society, instead of internalized by the whore.

    Ha, and by the way, any sane man wouldn’t love you, but would just fuck you and dump you.


  195. @rebelliousvanilla
    So where do you live? And do I need a time machine to get there?

    You are giving a lot of us guys hope. Maybe I need to start going to church (per Thursday’s posts on chaste church girls) and stop hanging around with the sluts of NYC.


  196. @rebelliousvanilla

    And this could be tested. Do away with affirmative action for women any law that favours us in employment, do away with child support, alimony, skewed divorce laws, welfare for single mothers, subsidized daycares and we will see what the truth is. The problem isn’t that the risks are smaller, the problem is that costs of being a whore are externalized on society, instead of internalized by the whore.

    OK, I call bullshit. There is no way an xx-chromosome bearer wrote this.


  197. on October 13, 2010 at 4:08 am Gunslingergregi

    ”””””What did the first place man do differently than the last place man? He catered to her female need for signs of romance and commitment (which, in the end, weren’t forthcoming. And that kid went HA HAW):

    “…intense level of eye contact”. “‘…if I get lucky you’ll wake me up with a kiss in the morning’”. “Him refusing to allow me to leave before noon”. “…how important it was to him that I got off as well”.

    So when PUAs talk about leaving women better than you found them, this is what they mean — treat your pump and dumps like girlfriends and in the ego-assuaged haze of their pleasure they will forget that you haven’t actually committed to them beyond offering the half-eaten burrito in your fridge.
    ”””””

    Every woman is already an ltr.


  198. >Joey Giraud
    This guy misappropriating the moniker of “Mencken” is insulting the legacy of the Bard of Baltimore with horrible writing. He seems to think that a mountain of stuffy, five-dollar words will make his writing smart, but the end result is without grace or art. Regardless of any possible truths that may be found there, I vault over these putrid cesspools of vexed verbosity.<

    Rather harsh! Plus a few dollar bills floating around in there as well.


  199. on October 13, 2010 at 4:16 am Gunslingergregi

    Chainring she is not american.


  200. on October 13, 2010 at 4:23 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””Morsellaux
    Gun, someone may point out that the glass is half full. But that is not the case. Substantial segments of population aren’t marrying. So, the glass is definitely less than half full.
    ”””

    Naa if you run numbers over 18 years it adds up to a 100 percent marriage although ok doesn’t account for multiple marriages and then account for 1 out of 5 to foreigners.


  201. on October 13, 2010 at 4:27 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””’Paladin
    Noticed something about the highly-rated man. She comments the “…intense level of eye contact”, “his blue eyes”, “…how important it was to him that I got off as well”.

    … and “THE SIZE OF HIS DICK”

    Anyone care to wager that his dick was average size and she only found it bigger (and more enjoyable) because of being enamored with other stuff? When the whole experience is satisfying for the woman, even a small dick might start feeling “huge” to her in retrospect.

    ””””’

    Yea anytime you fuck a bitch 5 times it will blow there mind.

    If I was born with a big dick I would have probably killed some bitches by now.


  202. R.vanilla “Ha, and by the way, any sane man wouldn’t love you, but would just fuck you and dump you.”
    –> Me?
    Based on the zero details that you know about my personal life?
    Oh sweetie.

    “Sluts are more likely to divorce men, they’re of worse moral character, less pleasant to be around overall and I can go on.”
    –> No offense honey but you don’t exactly sound like a party yourself. Im not sure what has happened in your short life, that you come on like a 50 year old divorced guy with this kind of explosion of bitterness and invective and name calling. (At least in a lot of cases the 50yo divorced guy would have an actual reason, lol)
    Why so much bitterness and um … fire, over the situation in a country thats not even your own country?
    Really I wanna know, Im not trying to get into a cat fight here. I mean, I could find some stuff on the other side of the world to get fired up about, but, why?

    You went from “feminist” to … this in what, twenty short years, you must have some um … interesting stories to tell. Im curious.


  203. on October 13, 2010 at 4:39 am Gunslingergregi

    Got to say though I am enjoying the audry/vanila

    Debate.

    he he he


  204. Penelope Trunk’s comment was fun to read. Dumb people’s opinion can be a treat.


  205. Powerpoint? Amateur. Paul Janka keeps his list in Excel.


  206. @Audrey

    You’re definitely not pleasant to be around. I’ve been on the Internet over 15 years and you’re on of the least intelligent and most hostile I’ve experienced.

    One of your big problems is you don’t want to see reality. Your feminism blinds you. There’s a huge Marxist component to your brain.


  207. Willy on Rebellious Vanilla:

    “Holy crap a chick that ‘gets it’. There is hope. I guess American chicks have yet to learn the lessons of their elder cougars and cat ladies.”

    —————————

    Willy, Rebellious isn’t a woman.


  208. @Audrey

    You’re definitely not pleasant to be around. I’ve been on the Internet over 15 years and you’re on of the least intelligent and most hostile I’ve experienced.

    Sounds like a pretty good endorsement for a job at feministing.


  209. @Audrey

    For instance, any sane guy or gal would know there’s a big difference between buying a woman a drink and getting nothing in return and buying a woman a drink in exchange for her lifting her shirt.

    But a Marxist feminist would let it eat at her that any guy would give a woman $10 to lift her shirt. Something tells me the same feminist wouldn’t lift her shirt for the hell of it either.

    A really obnoxious Marxist feminist would hang out at a pickup forum and try to use the concept that “its beta to buy a woman a drink” to try to permanently shut down discussion of how so many young women fantasize about being whores.

    Its part of your agenda to do that.


  210. Jerry —
    Hi honey I love you too. Lol

    Do you even know what “Marxism” is? Im not a proletarian revolution kind of girl, myself.
    In fact Im not even a feminist, other than in the sense that I can actually see where a lot of these trends come from, and I try to see both sides of the story.

    If I remember correctly your just hating on me because I actually like sex, and because I dont think an old guy with a fat wallet is hottt.


  211. Audrey, what are your personal politics? We could use your debating skills on the centre-left.


  212. on October 13, 2010 at 5:20 am Gunslingergregi

    New requirement for ltr.

    Can the chick climb a mango tree to the top?

    Where you can’t go.

    Weeds out the chicks usefull for more than just pussy.

    he he he


  213. Oh I just saw this

    “But a Marxist feminist would let it eat at her that any guy would give a woman $10 to lift her shirt.”
    –> Oh honey dont worry, if you are just aching to give your money away I have plenty of girlfriends who’d lighten your load (although they’d stop at anything involving actual physical contact haha)
    Btw sweetie isnt that an awfully high price? You can get a whole lapdance for twenty lol.


  214. @Audrey

    I don’t hate on anyone. I just noticed that the most annoying feminist on this blog, who’s taken plenty of unsolicited hit and run potshots at me, just told another woman that there was no reason to assume that you weren’t “pleasant to be around” in real life.

    If you’re over 22 you’re too old and if you’re under 5’9″ you’re too short. I look 34 which isn’t too old for anyone who hasn’t been trained by feminists to hate “the Patriarchy”. In real life, you’d be naturally attracted to me but my feminism radar would quickly go off and I’d send you on your way.

    Your preoccupation against a guy having money is evident in most of the stuff I’ve seen you write. Believe me, most women are just fine with that as part of the package.


  215. [plenty of girlfriends who’d lighten your load (although they’d stop at anything involving actual physical contact haha)]

    That’s what they all say at first.

    In the end, a woman who’d lift her shirt for $10 will go all the way for $300.

    Your friends just won’t tell you (and you wouldn’t tell them).


  216. “Audrey, what are your personal politics? We could use your debating skills on the centre-left.”

    Haha well I dont even know anymore… After spending a while in san fransisco I feel like a super right wing paleo (and not paleo as in eating pemmican and nuts lol), then I visit small town america and its like Im a flaming liberal.
    Its hard to say really. Im more of a realist then anything else, in some ways this makes me more to the right and in others it makes me more to the left.

    At the end of the day though, you’d have to be a losing team to have to recruit the likes of little old me. Lol
    Who is this, anyway? If you put up contact info I could get in touch.


  217. Why so much over-reaction from guys? dudes we got to understand what Karen did was just to respond her frustration coming from her failed relationships with attractive guys. She did not find a way to get over her being a loser and she came with Power Point . The heck. What she got! now she would not be able to get banged from guys – who would love to bang a slut!


  218. on October 13, 2010 at 5:41 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””Paul
    Powerpoint? Amateur. Paul Janka keeps his list in Excel.
    ”””””

    excel doesn’t have enough lines.


  219. Jerry

    “In the end, a woman who’d lift her shirt for $10 will go all the way for $300.”

    –> Youve got it all figured out lol.
    Is there a formula? Mx + b, pi r squared? Haha

    I wont deny that there is some truth in this for a lot of girls, but, two things.
    One, lots of girls will have a hard stop at touching, plenty of us will play games for easy money as long as ya’ll keep your dirty paws off of us.
    Myself, if I were single, either A. Id be creeped out and say no, or B. if you were smooth enough about it at least id be honest, and say “well just know that you arent getting anything out of it, other than a good look.” And then Id smile and laugh with you. If you werent creepy!
    And then Id probably smile, take the $10, and renege on the deal, maybe Id make you tell me a joke to get it back. Im a hustler lol.

    “Your friends just won’t tell you (and you wouldn’t tell them).”

    –> Honey girls talk more than you’d ever fathom we do.


  220. In the end, a woman who’d lift her shirt for $10 will go all the way for $300.

    jerry, if she’s going all the way for $300 she’s not having a fantasy of being a whore. she’s a whore.

    are we supposed to be impressed that you can pay a girl to have sex with you? anyone. can. do. that.

    please read this very carefully: it doesn’t mean she likes you. it means she’s a prostitute.

    i know you’re going to say something like “what if she’s not really a prostitute” and i will repeat myself. a woman who takes money for sex is a prostitute. if she’s taking your money, she’s a prostitute whether she puts that on her resume or not.


  221. on October 13, 2010 at 6:02 am Gunslingergregi

    ”””–> Honey girls talk more than you’d ever fathom we do.”””’

    Yea but if you are in ltr with them and ask the right questions you can know all you ever wanted or didn’t want to know about them.


  222. on October 13, 2010 at 6:07 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””””i know you’re going to say something like “what if she’s not really a prostitute” and i will repeat myself. a woman who takes money for sex is a prostitute. if she’s taking your money, she’s a prostitute whether she puts that on her resume or not.””’

    So all the woman that have sex on prom night are prostitutes.

    Or who have sex after three dates of buying them shit.

    glad that is cleared up.

    On the woman telling each other everything.

    The way to move past gaming bitches is actually to get bitches to be your trojan horse.

    They are woman and go into the womans world and pull woman out of that for you to fuck from the inside.

    It is the pinnacle at which the number of pussy you can get is in the astronomical numbers.

    Get bitches on your side and use them for their skills.


  223. My money says she was the typical bookworm in high school, spending all her time studying so she could get into a school like Duke. As a consequence, she was neglected by all the boys.

    I’m sorry, but bookwormish girls are not ignored by anyone in school if they’re hot. It all comes down to BMI, curves, facial bone structure, and not having a bad case of acne.


  224. In one way or the other all women are prostitutes in the sense that whereas prostitute entertains customers for money, rest of the women entertain either for cash or kind or some favor!


  225. on October 13, 2010 at 6:19 am Gunslingergregi

    The thing about prostitutes is they give value in exchange.

    Look at audrey talking about taking 10 bucks from a guy and giving nothing.

    Regular chick will take your money and give nothing.

    Got to love hookers.


  226. Guns, haha at least Im honest. Im like vegas, with the billboards up that advertise 99% pay back on slots. Like, “Come in give us a dollar, and we’ll give you back 99 cents!” And it dosent stop people from coming in, in droves.

    Or Im like those experiments with the rats. The rats dont get addicted to pushing the lever when they get a predictible reward every time, they get addicted when they *can never tell* when theyre going to get the reward and when they arent.

    Thats what keeps people coming back. You pua types call it push pull, we women call it borderline personality haha lol it’s one and the same.
    I know about it firsthand, my daddy was an alcoholic. He was physically there for us, but he batted about 500 against the bottle. But you know what? In retrospect all the times he gave us nothing, made it so much more special when he was mentally there. The love in his eyes was sincere.

    So when we “bitches” arent predictable, it makes men love us all the more madly. Except those men whove dropped out of the game, but theyve dropped out so oh well what are ya gonna do lol.

    Guns, would you really want a girl who’d give YOU the same thing for YOUR 10 bucks, as she’d give any other guy for HIS 10 bucks?
    Youd just be another john.

    Youd rather have the girl who gives other guys nothing … and have her give you something. Or lots of somethings lol.
    Course if she’s real good at girl game that’s what all of her other men would think too (: haha it’s all a game. played on both sides.


  227. @Audrey

    That was a cool answer. I take back some of what I said above about your being no fun to be around.

    Yes, it is all about the man not being creepy and not being fool enough to buy that drink before the shirt was lifted. ;)

    In fact, the woman actually *does* have to like a man to move into touching, after she’s done a strip act or two. Two main points being that, if done smoothly: a) asking a woman to lift her shirt – regardless of whether he offers a drink or cash – mostly doesn’t make her respect a man less (quite the opposite mostly) and b) that topic of discussion mostly allows a hook-up/relationship to proceed faster than the usual dating process (dinner + movie + walk + dinner).


  228. @chainring: “OK, I call bullshit. There is no way an xx-chromosome bearer wrote this.”

    I thought so too, but I checked rebelliousvanilla’s blog. She’s not American, she’s Romanian.

    So guys, if you want to find a real woman, go to central/Eastern Europe and leave the Karen Owen’s of this world to fester in their bitter stew.


  229. If I was a man, I’d pick a fairly modest virtuous 8 for marriage over a slutty 10 every single time.<

    "I would venture that every single man who comments regularly on this blog feels this way."

    Most of the men on this board don't get this choice.
    Modest, virtuous 4 or slutty 7?


  230. on October 13, 2010 at 7:00 am David Collard

    I was handsome enough as a young man that women would stare at me. And I would never sleep with, let alone marry, a slut. I knocked back a few because I didn’t want to go to bed with a girl, no matter how attractive, who was likely to be trouble.

    I married a virgin. There is nothing she has not done for me in bed.

    As for this Karen Owen, she seems attractive enough. I picked the manjaw, and was pleased that others can see it too. High testosterone is a possibility.

    Has she ruined her life? Probably. Will feminists learn anything from this? Probably not.


  231. Rebellious Vanilla slutting it up all over the board.
    Looking for a sucker to import her into the US.


  232. Jerry

    “That was a cool answer. I take back some of what I said above about your being no fun to be around.”
    –> Usually men only call me a bitch when they see me having fun with other people lol. Im actually very nice to people, even if they give me the heebie jeebies (although it’s fun to talk smack with my girlfriends later)

    “In fact, the woman actually *does* have to like a man to move into touching, after she’s done a strip act or two.”
    –> Yes true, Although by using that as your opener your pretty much limiting yourself to girls who are going to be stone cold mercenary’s.
    Meaning, your going to be self selecting here: You’re assuring that the women you get, will be more externally gold diggers than you might otherwise get. From your other comments here it appears you’re mostly fine with that, so more power to ya my man.
    Personally Im not one to be wow’d by flashes of the cash, although I can definitely be entertained. If ya know what I mean. (And I don’t mean in the escort type of way lol, more like I like a good laugh. My girls nights out would be a lot more entertaining if there were guys like you around my town)

    “Two main points being that, if done smoothly: a) asking a woman to lift her shirt – regardless of whether he offers a drink or cash – mostly doesn’t make her respect a man less (quite the opposite mostly)”
    –> Haha lol this one can swing both ways like anything else. The difference is that it swings a helluva lot faster than using some other come-on.
    Like your either getting a girls attention in your face, or your getting her drink in your face, but either way its happening in a few seconds. Fast forward lol.

    “and b) that topic of discussion mostly allows a hook-up/relationship to proceed faster than the usual dating process (dinner + movie + walk + dinner).”
    –> Ya although then your setting a precedent. Like your gonna have to keep shelling out the bucks for that “relationship” to continue. Is that really what you want?
    From what Ive seen that dosent tend to end well for you boys, the price increases. Faster than inflation lol. Hell even faster than college tuitions are going up!


  233. @Artichoke

    While I tend to long-term date religious virgins myself, you’ll be forsaking a lifetime of fun with the average modern woman if you’d seriously not date a woman who’d lift her shirt for a reasonable sum (or talk about lifting her shirt as part of a racy discussion that frames the idea that the two of you are going to hook up somehow).

    I live in a college town where I see “Alpha athletes” every day who proudly walk around with their hot girlfriends, whom I’ve had at my place once or twice for a strip tease or more. The guys have no idea. Naivete runs in the blood of even a lot of Alphas.


  234. David collard “I was handsome enough as a young man that women would stare at me.”
    –> Was? would?
    Haha you must be doing something wrong, your around fifty right? Usually you can get that (the staring I mean) to last until then.

    “I knocked back a few because I didn’t want to go to bed with a girl, no matter how attractive, who was likely to be trouble.”
    –> So your on the bottom left of the risk return curve so to speak. Nothing wrong with that, also nothing wrong with guys on the other side of the curve who like to shoot the rapids.
    The only thing I see you doing here that’s a bit on the annoying side, is ranting like every man who dosent think exactly like you is a lunatic. As long as you arent personally affected dont you think you should be more lassay faire about the whole thing?

    One thing David as long as your here, I’ve seen you say that you’re wife wants certain things (like more anal sex lol … the naughty thing) but you dont let her have them. How does that go over with her? How does she react?


  235. on October 13, 2010 at 7:25 am David Collard

    Audrey

    She sometimes asks for anal sex after I have spanked her, or when we have had good night out together.

    I refuse her. I suppose she is mildly frustrated. I don’t really know or care.

    Been there, done that. Don’t want us to go to Hell.


  236. jerry,

    see, the problem with you is that you’re working on the premise that you, yourself, are an alpha.

    let’s flip the script for a moment. let’s assume that you are not automatically an alpha based on the fact that you say you are.

    so we now have two types of men:

    1) the man who has long term “relationships” with religious virgins, and who pays other girls to dance/strip for him.

    first of all, we must assume that this type of man is not receiving sex from his “religious virgins” (and if he is, guess what…they weren’t virgins), and is thus paying for them to…not have sex with him. second of all, we can assume that if the other girls are having sex with him, he’s paying them for it (what girl is going to accept money to strip and then not accept money to fuck?)

    so this guy is paying to not have sex, and, if he’s having sex, he’s also paying for that.

    2) the man who is in some sort of relationship with the girl who will strip for money.

    first, we’ll assume that he’s having sex with her. without paying her. check one for him. second, we’ll assume that they’re in some sort of mutual relationship. and you live in a third-world country. so your money is financing their nest egg. check two for him. not only is he fucking the girl without paying for it, he’s hustling you out of $$$

    who’s the alpha?

    hint: it’s not you.


  237. on October 13, 2010 at 7:34 am NeedSumBitches

    God dammit mencken will you stop posting your bitter mindless drivel on here and just admit you want to fellate roissy ffs.


  238. David you do realize that the Bible dosent actually condemn anal sex between a man and a woman. Its silent on the whole issue, so even if you’re religious its nothing but speculation. What is your actual justification, for thinking youll go to hell?

    The Bible condemns homosexual sex (“lie with a man as youd lie with a woman” passage), and theres some stuff in there about avoiding her during and after her period. (Leviticus says don’t fuck her for seven days after her period, you down with that too? If so youre pretty hardcore lol)

    But ya there’s actually nothing explicit in the Bible about anal sex between a man and his wife. Go for it tiger!


  239. david,

    i responded to you on that spearhead thread, but i think my comment was modded. question for you, though: i’m curious to know more about this wild, degrading porn of which you speak. considering you claimed to have never seen the stuff alte discussed (rape, torture, gangbang, etc.).

    i’m inclined to think that you believe doggystyle to be quite risque.


  240. on October 13, 2010 at 7:38 am Alphabeta #2987

    Fuck off Audrey, there’s a dear.


  241. @Audrey

    I’d run that game only when I’ve decided that there’s no long term romance probable, so it would be a mile from the opener.

    Prices for stripping drop by the way, as women can get insecure about not being called for a replay. In fact, I’ve found that a woman doesn’t feel like a whore at all if she thinks the guy is a Beta who’d do anything to be with her. In that case, she’s just doing what all women do to Betas, which is take advantage of them. If she realizes “Oh my God, he was just running vulnerability game on me for one or two shows”, then she’ll feel bad. Then the guy has to play psychiatrist or not take her calls. ;)


  242. on October 13, 2010 at 7:43 am Gunslingergregi

    Look at audry bringing up shit like from two for the money.

    Was a great scene in there when pachino walks into gambler annonymous meeting and is talking with gamblers who have lost everything and he tells them it is because they wanted to lose as it was the only way they felt alive.

    I thought good point.

    Why do people gamble?

    Yea most slots even if you win are going to give you less than you can put in.
    Same with woman most woman are going to give you less than you put in.

    ”””””’Guns, would you really want a girl who’d give YOU the same thing for YOUR 10 bucks, as she’d give any other guy for HIS 10 bucks?
    Youd just be another john.”””

    Yea but if I won then she would quit and only do me.
    So I win and get pussy.
    Then I win and get it free.
    It is win win.

    ””From what Ive seen that dosent tend to end well for you boys, the price increases. Faster than inflation lol. Hell even faster than college tuitions are going up!”””

    Naa the price goes down with a real whore.
    The hidden cost in a regular bitch who wants a house you can barely afford the price continually goes up while her value to the organization goes down for most cases.

    ””””Youd rather have the girl who gives other guys nothing … and have her give you something. Or lots of somethings lol.
    Course if she’s real good at girl game that’s what all of her other men would think too (: haha it’s all a game. played on both sides.”””’

    Why it is nice to be a man. I get to try the virgin thing to.
    Hell I can try all kinds of woman if I choose to continue to play the game of life.

    ””””Or Im like those experiments with the rats. The rats dont get addicted to pushing the lever when they get a predictible reward every time, they get addicted when they *can never tell* when theyre going to get the reward and when they arent.””””

    Why if you remake the rules for the win to just saving that 2k you would have won in slots if you had won. You are guarranteed. Why it does take a major change in perspective to just skip all the bullshit steps and go ahead and create yourself a winner and create the conditions that are a win and learn how to enjoy reality instead of figments of imagination. Use your imagination on the win side of the equation rather than hoping to win.
    All the shit guys want to win as far as woman they can do so with some money.
    Then they can also play the game with the chicks who game.
    Whatever it is about re-labeling everything.
    All the shit that is put out as being able to be won.
    You can just buy.


  243. Audrey said…

    “Who is this, anyway?”

    ——————–

    Just somebody who was amused to watch our host reduced to spluttering platitudes

    [Editor: Whatever imaginary visual you need to make it through the day.]

    when his own system, the very same that has a stickied place of honor at the top of the page, was used against him.

    [Obviously you didn't read my reply to audrey.]

    I have nothing against him, but the desperate floundering when his bullshit arguments got shot through put a smile on my face. Ditto all his acolytes being swept aside like so many cobwebs.

    [Did you poop your pants with excitement writing that?]

    Makes a refreshing change from Me Too-ism of most of the women that comment here (exceptions: Sandy and Alex who were also calling out this crap in this that Alpha vs Beta thread.)

    [Seems you've memorized all the posts here as well as ancient comment threads. Good job, obsessedstalkerentity.]


  244. @Thunear

    So guys, if you want to find a real woman, go to central/Eastern Europe and leave the Karen Owen’s of this world to fester in their bitter stew.

    Seems there is dearth of real women here! In extreme gamesmanship where can you expect real women?Shit everywhere! women who try to be wise when they are not end in shit hole!


  245. on October 13, 2010 at 8:06 am Alphabeta #2987

    Totally off topic, but news just out: the smirking cunt in the article linked below has just ushered in the long dark tea time of the Australian legal system. It’s increasing leniency towards smirking cunts who fabricate utterly ridiculous stories of spousal abuse in order to get away with murder is disturbing evidence of the emerging femocratic tyranny emerging Down Under.

    Read what this cunt says to justify it’s crime. It’s God? My ass. Ritual by fire involving the penis? My scab-covered pus-filled stinking black ass. There isn’t a single Indian court in that country that would allow such flagrant cuntitude. Modern smirking Indian cunts are as entitled and self-aware as any other smirking cunt and they are twice as smart. This cunt knew exactly what it was doing. It will be out in five years and it will kill again.

    And Audrey, please keep shutting the fuck up, There’s a dear.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/penis-burning-wife-rajini-narayan-found-guilty-of-manslaughter/story-e6frfkvr-1225938286157


  246. Anonymous, I wouldn’t move to the US. If I’d be to marry an American, I’d do it only provided we wouldn’t live in America. Why the heck would anyone want to move there is beyond me. lol

    gunslinger, there’s no difference in between a slut and a prostitute in terms of morality. The only difference is that paying the way of a slut is stupid when a hooker guarantees a return for your money. Now, there’s a completely different thing if that woman you’d spend money on actually had some clue what morality is.

    Audrey, yes, in case you didn’t figure it out, being a slut says enough about your personality that not much besides that is needed to know. And I’m being descriptive – slut conveys the way a certain type of woman is. Just because you might find it offensive and consider it name calling isn’t my problem. And hey, keep doing what you’re doing – it decreases the number of marriage material women, which benefits me. lol. I wouldn’t really care about Americans or the US if you didn’t export your non-values all over the world and kept to yourself. Some people actually prefer not living in a shitty society like you people do. Oh, and being able to get slutty girls to spread their legs and being a good husband aren’t the same thing. For example, Tito is good at the former, probably horrid at the latter.

    chain, I live in Eastern Europe. And why wouldn’t a woman write that? Unless one plans to be a slut, all those things work against you, since your husband would get to pay for all of them. It’s fairly common sense. For me the math is simple. If I want to marry, I’m against those. If I won’t marry, I’ll be all for them.


  247. @Artichoke

    You obviously feel that the man who sleeps with a whore for free is someone to be defined as “Alpha.”

    The Chateau would definitely disagree with you.

    That man is the chump.

    If I’ve slept with your girlfriend for $100, you are nowhere near Alpha for being with her.

    And guys as naive as you clearly do date those others have had for chump change.


  248. jerry,

    actually, what i’m trying to say is that you are not an alpha. also, why are you always licking “the chateau’s” asshole so hard?

    i don’t think that a man who sleeps with a whore for free is necessarily an alpha. he could be either.

    i do think that a man who pays for sex is many things, but there is one thing he is not.

    and that is: alpha.


  249. afaik, you spend a lot of money on girls who don’t even sleep with you. and you really want to go around calling other men chumps?


  250. @Artichoke

    On this blog, only really bitter (and poverty stricken) betas with a chip on their shoulder get a stick up their butt about whether an Alpha would buy a lap-dance or get a girl to lift her shirt for $10 now and then.

    In reality, I don’t live in a “third world country”. I live in a superior country to the USA. Eastern Europe is the second world, with better food, better education and less feminism than the anglo speaking world. Plus, its actually harder here than in the west to get a woman to lift her shirt for chump change. I play this game only when I’m dealing with someone who isn’t marriage material.

    A $200 per month slut budget is hardly indicative of what an Alpha or Beta does most of the time nor is that kind of budget “breaking a nest egg.” The idea that any of the unknowing chumps I see with mercenaries ever benefit from this minimal cash themselves, is quite naive.


  251. Vanilla girl “Audrey, yes, in case you didn’t figure it out, being a slut says enough about your personality that not much besides that is needed to know. And I’m being descriptive – slut conveys the way a certain type of woman is.”
    –> I must’ve missed the part where I wrote I was a slut haha. Ill have to look through what I wrote and see where I wrote that … Or not lol
    Your inferring a lot of things here from zero facts.

    “And hey, keep doing what you’re doing – it decreases the number of marriage material women, which benefits me. lol.”
    –> Who says Im not married? Do you even have a handle on what your saying right now?

    “Some people actually prefer not living in a shitty society like you people do.”
    –> Oh dear. rawwrrrr! You must be having a bad day. Well Im certainly not into arguing with brick walls, so Ill let this one be.
    Except to remark that one of my girlfriends husband is a man who risked life and limb to flee your country when ceaucescu was in power. That’s all lol

    “Oh, and being able to get slutty girls to spread their legs and being a good husband aren’t the same thing.”
    –> Well your stating the obvious here. But for some of us the raw sexual attraction is more important then it is for others.
    Are you saying that you just want a “good husband type” guy and dont really care whether he gets you going sexually? Or maybe I’m hearing you wrong here


  252. @Artichoke

    You’ve read only beginners PUA material and completely miss the point that, on island of 10 men and 10 women, the Alpha is the one who slept with the 4 hot women no matter what it took to do so, especially if he’s with the best one at the end.

    I will sleep with your girlfriend for cash and end up in an LTR with someone better.

    You lose in two ways.


  253. jerry,

    whoa there, tiger. first of all, i didn’t say that a guy buying a lapdance was SUPERBETA. can an alpha guy pay a girl for a titty flash? sure. does paying a girl for a titty flash make a guy alpha? no.

    if you can’t figure out why that is, then you are stupid (i’m not calling you a beta, just stupid. if it helps, most betas are not that stupid.)

    last time i checked, second world = communist.

    also, wtf do you care if she’s marriage material? are you ever going to get married? last time i checked your answer was no, no, and no. so if you give even the slightest fuck about a girl being marriage material…you’re pathetic.

    lastly, read for fucking comprehension. i didn’t say you were breaking a nest egg (and who the fuck would care if you were, oldie mcolderson, not like you’re going to use it in the 10 years of semipotency you have left), i said you were contributing to theirs.

    the idea that any of the “chumps” you see are “unknowing” is, quite frankly, one of the most ridiculous things i’ve ever heard/seen. it’s like saying, this girl is a virgin but she slept with me.

    BIG ASIDE TO THE AUDIENCE: haha she’s totally not a virgin.


  254. Me here “Just somebody who was amused to watch our host reduced to spluttering platitudes when his own system, the very same that has a stickied place of honor at the top of the page, was used against him.”
    –> (looks up, blinking innocently) Haha I call em like i see em.

    [Editor: You are a dope. Called it.]

    The other thing thats funny, is that people here act like virginity is some sort of bright line. The truth is it’s just another step on a spectrum, right after oral and right before more um, intense stuff.

    So ok I can see what these guys are saying, that they want a virgin. Cause what’s really going on there is, they want to be *special* in that girls life, sexually and other wise in a way that no one else ever was.
    Thats understandable yeah. But what these guys are missing is, all you have to do is just push your woman farther than other guys have. Like ya if she’s a virgin then just fucking her (even if its bad) will accomplish that. But if shes had guys before then, all you have to do is take her where shes never been before, and youll get the same effect, the same deal with her forgetting everyone shes had before. So basically *every* woman is a “virgin” for a man who can take her to the next level lol.
    This is why the real alphas dont stress too much about a womans sexual history (really boys, they dont … i mean real alpha’s, not mark zukerberg lol).

    ["Real alphas", aka any alphas, are actually more judgmental of women's past sexual histories than are betas, because they can be.]

    Because they know after theyre done with her, she’ll forget all about the other men shes had.

    [This is what men who can get nothing but sluts to sleep with them say. Fact is, she won't forget about an alpha whether she's a slut or a virgin. The judging of her sexual past is strictly a benefit meant for the alpha male's discretion.]

    Objects in rear view appearing farther away then they really are.

    [Editor: So, just how many cocks have you gobbled?]


  255. jerry,

    on an island of 10 men and 10 women, the alpha is the guy who slept with all 10 women and didn’t give a fuck if they were hot or not (come on, there’s only 20 people on the entire frickin’ island). also, guess what? he didn’t have to expend any energy in getting them to sleep with him.

    unfortunately for you, you’ve missed the entire point of game. “game” does not exist so that alpha males can spend a lot of time and/or money (assuming “money game” is a thing, which it’s not) trying to get laid. no, the alphas are already getting laid.

    game is for the betas who are not getting laid.

    that much should be really fucking obvious.


  256. @Artichoke

    You’ve made it clear that you would feel like the Alpha if I slept with your girlfriend for $100…because she’s with you and that you think the cuckolded men in my town are aware of what their girlfriends did and enjoyed part of $100.

    Right.

    Nobody said that getting a woman to lift her shirt for a drink is an Alpha move even if it is true that you yourself probably wouldn’t have the game to pull it off without appearing creepy.

    Second world stopped being communist 19 years ago.


  257. on October 13, 2010 at 8:43 am Gunslingergregi

    I’d say jerry alpha he always has something hanging off his nuts lol

    Plus he has a job making money in a foreign country and actually just lives there.

    He is living his dream.


  258. jerry,

    apparently the best you can do is attempt to insult my masculinity by insinuating that you’ll fuck my girlfriend and by referring to my presumed lack of game.

    i’ll take that as an admission of your defeat, considering i’ve said nothing about myself at all, including whether or not i am male or female.

    thanks for playing, but i’m disappointed to say you were not in any way a worthy adversary. however, i accept your humble grovelling.


  259. on October 13, 2010 at 8:50 am Gunslingergregi

    Why labeling is dumb for yourself. If you accept no label you can do anything you want.

    Accepting a label lowers your freedom to not be placed in a box.

    Label yourself a free man.

    Probably the best one.


  260. @Artichoke

    You’ve got a man crush on your imaginary ideal Alpha.

    Your kind of attitude always comes from a bitter beta who isn’t doing well or in the game himself.

    You read a beginners PUA trope about how “Alphas don’t need to pay for sex” when almost every man pays for sex one way or the other. Lose your hard on for the perfect Alpha male you’ll never be and get real.

    Even though its not Alpha to pay for a strip tease, it is definitely Beta to do NOTHING. A better gamer than me might be able to get a woman and her friends to come strip at his place for FREE, but if he were to fail at that and go home to exercise his arm while I spent a nominal amount of cash to get the woman and her friends over at my place, then he would be the loser that night.

    On an island of 10 women, only 4 will be worth doing anything with. Alphas don’t indiscriminately risk STDs.


  261. @Artichoke

    Oh, I’d believe you are female, but I’ve seen actual males on this forum now and then who have a huge telephone pole up their butt on the subject of men getting lap dances now and then.

    I’d agree that every man should stay away from actual professional prostitutes, but its healthy for a guy to use 10% of his entertainment budget on the occasional strip tease with benefits.


  262. @Artichoke

    If you are a male, you wrote yourself that you’d be the Alpha if your girlfriend was hot and I’d only paid her for some quick action like a hand job and she was on my paid booty call short list.

    I’d actually agree on this if your girlfriend was hotter than mine. But most people would not consider the cuckolded guy the Alpha.


  263. on October 13, 2010 at 9:03 am David Collard

    Audrey

    I am a Catholic. Anal sex with a woman is against my religion. I enjoy doing it very much, but I think it is very immoral. Actually, being a good Catholic got me into trouble once, because I did not have my wife on the pill, and I came home “horny” from a trip. She was in her fertile time, so I had a moral lapse and took her anally.

    Artichoke

    I thought you were a girl! I explained why I wasn’t going to nominate the kind of porn I have seen on The Spearhead. I have not seen most of what Alte listed. I have seen other stuff. More specialised.


  264. david,

    i am a girl. jerry’s trying to make an argument out of thin air, and it’s failing him miserably.

    i did see your response to alte, but i’m curious — mostly because i lurk on these blogs a lot and i’m inclined to think (as i said above) that what you think is “violent and degrading” is not the same as what us american gen-yers think is “violent and degrading.”

    i wonder if you could actually come up with any examples that might shock me.


  265. Jerry, one more question for ya buddy — out of genuine curiosity what the heck do you have in common with religious virgin’s from another country??
    That would make sense if you were wife hunting, but, I mean, what do you get from it? Those girls aren’t exactly the life of the party, especially not for an American ex-pat who dosent even share her culture.

    I mean, you do your thang with the girls wholl strip for you. I think thats pretty open on all sides (all though you should certainly watch your valuable’s if theyre at your place lol), so ok win win situation there. But what do you get from dating a “religious virgin” if you arent looking for a wife?


  266. jerry,

    i don’t think anyone has a problem with you paying whatever the fuck you want for sex/stripping/lapdances.

    i think the issue is that you are actually trying to argue *haha* that you are *snicker* an alpha because you do this!

    i mean, is it just me or is that the stupidest thing anyone has ever said? it makes me wonder a lot of things about you, like, how has someone so incredibly retarded managed to live so long? i hope for your sake and the sake of people around you that you are not this stupid in real life.


  267. Why didn’t anyone mention that the vast majority of comments at Jezebel disapproved of this woman’s actions?

    But hey, mustn’t let perspective get in the way of bashing straw-feminists, can we?

    [Editor: We're talking about the stance of the editorial board. Please do keep up.]


  268. “I can’t be bothered to read your massive text blocks of gibberish. CR’s point is that while the feminists want to pretend that the sexes are equal, they are, in fact, NOT equal.”

    This reads, to me, that you don’t want to read anything that doesn’t already suit your biases. This is why some of Roissy’ commenters are no better intellectually than the feminists they rightly criticize. I could totally see a feminist saying the same thing about Roissy’s posts – read a few words with a pre-conceived strawman in mind, then refuse to read teh nuance of his arguments because they already know what is right and make an argument against it that doesn’t even address what he said or the fact that he addressed those objections.

    I don’t think the words “equal”, “inferior” or “superior” apply to any of these discussions. There are population differences between the genders in any area that can have bearing on differential reproductive success (mating behavior, mate selection, the implications and moralization of sluttiness, etc). (This doesn’t say anything about any one individual). I am a “feminist” in that I think women should be judged, in situations where their individuality is important, as individuals. But I certainly don’t believe this will result in equal group outcomes or that one can’t usefully act on group data in situations where probability is important and where the risk of unfairly slighting an individual’s rights based on group data is minimal. I believe people should be given the chance to be individuals regardless of their race, gender, etc. but that it isn’t surprising, not does it need “fixing” that different populations (by race, gender, or whatever) exhibit different distributions on all sorts of variables.


  269. Excellent post, excellent clarity!

    I totally missed the point (no surprise there). I had to move beyond the slut factor, move beyond the moral depravity, move beyond the “who the hell would do this online, anyways”, to see SHE WAS REJECTED. she is so sad about this she had to air it out.

    It is good we finally see what she loks like. I was ticked that she posted pics of men she slept with ONLINE but nowhere did she post pics of herself. I would be embarrassed if I were one of those dudes. I am out to lunch on what she found attractive in some of the men. many of them were not really that cute. but oh well.


  270. @Rebelliousvanilla, if I remember correctly, a lot of countries have paternity leave and some countries draft women as well. I think it is more fair to draft women and I hope that more countries will do the same.

    “She’s a pathetic attention seeking slut. If a man did this, I wouldn’t see him as a pathetic loser.”

    I would see the man pathetic loser as well.
    ———————————————————————————————-

    @Mencken, I like your comments. Do you have a blog?
    ———————————————————————————————-

    @Roissy,
    “You just figured out double standards exist and life isn’t fair.”

    Life isn’t fair, but we have tried to make it fair.
    Double standards exists, but that doesn’t mean we have to reinforce it.

    Someone is going to bring out the whole instinct, evolution argument, but we do a lot of stuff that are not supposed to be instinctive and we don’t do a lot of stuff that are supposed to be instinctive. So that’s not going to convince me.

    [Editor: The farther away our policies and social regulating mechanisms veer from our instincts, the harder and quicker we will court failure. See: communism.]

    Every time someone you criticize someone while bringing up the double standard talk, I feel that you are somehow very threatened by feminism.

    [You forgot to mention I'm threatened by smart and independent women.]


  271. “his strange mix of libertine gloating and strong moralism is really bizarre”

    What would Odysseus have done if Penelope had decided to bang all the suitors before he even went to war?

    I didn’t mean “bizarre” pejoratively. Part of what I like about this blog is that you have to read it for a while to understand there is a coherency to the apparent contradiction and sloppy readers who are too quick to avoid the nuance of the arguments will never get it. And if a person is going to get offended too easily, they are never going to get to the point of engaging with the arguments. I don’t think Roissy is right about everything (I find myself mostly arguing in my head with the apocalyptic macro-societal lessons he draws from his fine micro-analysis), but his views are serious and deserve attention all the way down the line.


  272. @Artichoke

    It isn’t up to a feminist to come to blogs like this and push their agendas such as in defining labels such as Beta and Alpha. I discuss the world as it is and the fun I have is more important than any label. I’d gladly say I’m a Beta who gets the wives and girlfriends of Alphas to strip now and then while I have a decent girlfriend myself.

    Thanks for admitting you’re female. But I believe you are also the same feminist who used that Italian moniker to attack on other threads. She used the exact phraseology such as the word “stupidest”, etc.

    A point you didn’t get: Just because a man has no intention of ever getting married, doesn’t mean he isn’t looking to date “marriage material.”


  273. @Audrey,

    In one post you wrote:

    So ok I can see what these guys are saying, that they want a virgin. Cause what’s really going on there is, they want to be *special* in that girls life, sexually and other wise in a way that no one else ever was.

    Wrong. Men don’t want to be ‘special’ in the same way that women crave to be ‘special’. The fact is that deep down inside a man’s head near the hypothalamus, close to the bit which makes a man stare at T&A, is the bit that makes men prefer virgins.

    Men prefer virgins for LTAs because that’s the way our brains our wired.

    The type of woman who thinks otherwise is the type who has slutted it up and hopes that there will be no blow back. Sorry to break this to you, sweetie, but there is.

    You made your cum-stained bed, now lie in it.

    In another comment you wrote:
    This is why the real alphas dont stress too much about a womans sexual history

    Bullshit. For a LTA all men consider their woman’s sexual history. The difference is that those men who get to chose, chose not to form relationships with sluts.

    Well your stating the obvious here.

    And if nothing else proves that you don’t know what you’re talking about, it is this. What is wrong with your education system that you don’t know the simplest grammar? It makes you look a retard. Perhaps you are a retard. Even a Romanian can get it right.

    your/you’re – Please learn the difference. And while you’re at it, learn how to use apostrophes.


  274. Why aren’t any of the Super Mega Alphas on the board rushing to explain why Jerry’s paying women to strip is Alpha Central?


  275. on October 13, 2010 at 9:42 am Grammar Nazis LOL

    Love how EVERY time someone tries to come at some other poster from the grammar angle, there’s ALWAYS a mistake.

    Thunear — “our brains our [sic] wired”. Heh heh. What a fucking idiot. Pot, kettle, idiot.
    You do know that resorting to the grammar angle pretty much means conceding defeat, do you not?


  276. @Grammar Nazis LOL

    True, that’s a danger, but the your/you’re FUBAR is so common, it deserves to be picked up so PEOPLE STOP DOING IT.


  277. @Audrey

    That’s a good question. My local girlfriend is no longer a virgin but its the affection (I hate to use the word love) that I crave. I’ll date mainly upper middle class women who go to church once per month but aren’t overly serious about religion. I’d never put up with a woman who’d really put Jesus above me in priority (they can say they would but most guys would walk away from a Holy Roller who really would do that).

    Four nights per week I am practically married as she comes over until her parents curfew kicks in at 11PM.

    Two of the other nights might involve a date with someone new or working out at the gym. Maybe one night might involve me going out of character and gaming a group of women into the strip thing. Yes, this topic is out of character for me and I only learned how to do this by reading this blog.

    I’ve never said that this kind of game is Alpha, but compared with regular dating, it takes the most amount of “game” for me to convince normal women (non-pros) to strip without appearing creepy. Regular dating is fairly easy as it involves DHVs and holding hands and watching a DVD at my place on the third date.


  278. BTW, I’m contrite. And I care.

    You should too.


  279. on October 13, 2010 at 9:54 am Gunslingergregi

    We are all actually threatened by feminists.

    No need to feel it.


  280. @Anonymous

    [Why aren’t any of the Super Mega Alphas on the board rushing to explain why Jerry’s paying women to strip is Alpha Central?]

    Its well established that feminists want to manipulate PUA “logic” to get men on these forums to fight each other about labels, when their own agenda doesn’t care what label any given man has or whether he has fun or not.

    It mostly doesn’t work because most men are smart enough to understand that, while getting a lap dance isn’t necessarily an Alpha move (unless he’s just talked a virgin into doing it for the first time), it isn’t necessarily a Beta move either depending on what the man does the other 29 nights of the month.


  281. Damn, that Karen Owen is kinda on the UG side though. Big waist/hips. I’ve known other girls growing up that were basically 6’s – 7’s if they dolled themselves up, who’ve had more bones buried in them than a backyard. It’s easy-peasy for an alpha. I’ve boned loads of 6-7’s myself with little to no effort, out of sheer laziness and that I’m basically a lessor alpha/higher beta.

    But what about all the 8-9’s that I’ve known in my life that get boned by basboy skids/coke dealers, or lowlifes who are certainly not alpha? I mean, there’s nothing alpha about sleeping on people’s couches, doing loads of drugs and basically being of no fixed address.


  282. The irony, of course, is that the whole liberal/conservative argument is just about what sort of nefarious social control we are going to exercise over individuals to make sure society can continue. Liberals favor government and conservatives favor organic institutions like family, church, etc. In a large rich, pluralistic society (especially one compromised of homogeneous cells of like minded people geographically segregated), you probably need a good bit of both. As I said previously, neither side really appreciates (or selectively appreciates) the need for individual rights to be curtailed for the good of society, a stable society being a necessity for any meaningful individual rights at all. Conservatives scoff at the idea that individual consumer and productive rights should be curtailed for the public good and liberals scoff at the idea that traditional family norms with strong social institutions controlling our individual instincts are necessary for anyone to flourish, ye they seem utterly unable to understand each other.

    I don’t know why the shitty unfairness of the world isn’t abundantly clear and the necessary tradeoffs repugnant. I don’t want outlier individuals that don’t fit the population norms (say the small, but not insignificant, number of women who can’t flourish in a gender repressive society, gay people, etc.) to be smothered by a society that is indifferent to their individual needs, but at the same time recognize that we need most people to happily submit to societally sanctioned behavior to have enough stability for a society to exist. I don’t see how any sort of angry triumphalism is helpful. I just find it depressing and sad. Arguing with liberals, I can’t comprehend their dismissiveness of the importance of small institutions that operate on shaming and other kinds of organic social control (while they are completely accepting of government power that trumps individual rights for the public good). Arguing with conservatives I can’t understand how the smallest individual right in the areas of consumption trump any consideration of the public good (while they are utterly in love with social control for the good of society in the form of religion, family structures, etc). I honestly have no idea how to reconcile this problem and I am not happy with any answers. I certainly don’t think any sort of ideology helps. I am open to any and all arguments.


  283. @Chainring,

    @Gorb
    Just when I had resigned myself to pumping and dumping American women, even into my 60s, some female has the nerve to show up here and actually *get it*.

    But she’s not American. alas.


  284. @Mencken

    You reconcile the problem with the dysfunctional two party system by not living in the USA.

    But then you still find yourself drawn to Drudgereport where you’ll automatically get dragged down into the American political mud.

    I’m the only one within 100 miles who’ll be watching the upcoming US elections. I hate to admit how I’ve planned to sleep early on November 2nd and wake at 4AM to watch the returns.

    I shouldn’t care about US politics, but its as fascinating as watching a train wreck in slow motion.


  285. on October 13, 2010 at 10:13 am Admit it, you got called out

    [Obviously you didn't read my reply to audrey.]

    The reply in which you said you’d left sexual partners off the list “in the interest of space”, even though you had enough space for “manhands” and triceps? Yeah, that was convincing.

    [Editor: Manhands and other physical characteristics are very important to a woman's attractiveness, which is in itself the overriding factor determining her immediate attractiveness to a man. Her sluttiness or lack thereof only becomes important after the man has secured the bang and is considering her for long term potential.
    This isn't rocket science, doofus.]

    Oh, and the part where you said that the test was “short-term”, but the highest ranks talk about marriage to a quality man coming easily.

    [If a woman possesses the full suite of physically attractive traits, plus feminine personality traits, she will vault ahead of other women for the interest of a high value man. In the absence of countervailing factors, and all else equal, she will receive marriage proposals from top men more frequently than lesser women. An exegesis on long term variables that influence a chick’s attractiveness to men considering LTRs would require another post, which is exactly what I did when I wrote this complement to the DMV test page:

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/its-easy-to-identify-a-slut/%5D

    Just admit it, I pretty much vigorously flick my bean to thoughts of you. Even my anus puckers in anticipation.

    [You don't say!]


  286. ANDREW DICE CLAY: Hey, is that your chick there?

    GUY IN THE AUDIENCE: Yeah!

    DICE: Damn, she’s pretty hot!

    GUY: Yeah,..

    DICE: You been together a while?

    GUY: About 6 months.

    DICE: Nice. She faithful to you?

    GUY: Oh yeah.

    DICE: She good in bed?

    GUY: *nods head enthusiastically*

    DICE: She suck a good dick?

    GUY: (laughing) Oooh yeah,..heheh,..

    DICE: I suppose the next question would be, “How do you suppose she got that way?”

    Every man wants a slut, he just wants her to be HIS slut.

    One presumption I don’t think is being considered about this girl (and I’m surprised Roissy hasn’t mentioned) is that she’s written and documented her experiences with these guys from the perspective that this was what she’d set out to do from the beginning. From the way Owen has constructed this, the presumption is that all this was planned from the outset in order to write some unorthodox end-of-term Masters Thesis or to create some scholarly documentary exposing the misogyny of Duke University (or at least the much demonized lacross team).

    That’s seems awfully proactive and clairvoyant for a freshmen coed so uniquely enamored with the bodies of lacross players to the exclusion of others. So the only other option is to consider that her “documentary” is really a retrospective about the choices she made during her time at Duke. Those were ‘organic’ choices, not planned experiments to prove a thesis, or some end-term exposé about evil and usury nature of men today. This being the case, it reduces her observations to little more than spiteful vindictiveness in the past tense.

    [Editor: Good point. This chick was mulling over every decision she made and every love affair she experienced during her time at Duke and probably wondering where it all went so haywire. This Powerpoint was her way of trying to make sense of the gnawing feeling that she was used like a kleenex.]


  287. Audrey is another cockgobbling whore trying to reduce her cognitive dissonance.

    What’s new.


  288. on October 13, 2010 at 10:33 am MarcTheEngineer

    Excellent post except the bit about the double standard

    If a guy created a similar powerpoint slide and let it out into the Internets today there would be a shitstorm of feminist protest about how he used/demeaned the women in his slides

    Chances are trumped up charges (maybe relating to privacy or something) would be laid against him… maybe even a revenge Raaaaaaaaaaaaaapppppppeeeeeee charge from one of his lays


  289. Rollo Tomassi And related Editor comments:

    Great observations. And the scary thing to consider is how often all of us retroactively impose a coherent narrative on a life (our own) that was nothing more than a series of organic decisions made for reasons beyond our conscious scrutiny, but only falsely “clarified” later by our feeble reason as though those “reasons” were the cause.


  290. Just look at the shitstorm over Tiger Woods behaviour as comparison.


  291. on October 13, 2010 at 10:39 am greatbooks4men

    lozozlzlozlz grammars polices neocn old laldies lzziolzlz

    hey roissy lzozlozzlzllzozozo nice picture of her lzozzoo manliness manly jaw zlozzlzol lotsa cocka underneath? or jsut a big fat clit lzozzloz

    the picture you posted of her shows she already has cankles lozozzlz where here calfs meld with her ankles and her legs aher kneees are of a forty year neocn womenz zlozzlzozlz

    the blond tranvsestite next 2 her is far hotter and i would do him way before owen lzozlzozzlzl but not in da butt like tucker max rhymes iwth goldman sax just like beranke rhymes with spank me lzozllzlz


  292. Mencken, thank you. If you do not have a blog or at least a public Twitter account, I would love to read more.


  293. Socially conservative American males wouldn’t allow Tiger Woods to write a Powerpoint presentation rating his various women. Feminists wouldn’t have to hit their keyboards on that one. It would destroy all the rest of his career.


  294. RV and Gun, yes, yes, there is a catch, but only when you look at the glass half empty scenario. If you consider the 50% of couples that form a lasting bond and don’t get divorced (USA), then the issue how many times the other group marry becomes not that relevant.

    The figures for a society at large is where the things go iffy, when the figure for couples is translated into a population distribution.

    Thus if there is a significant segment that does not marry at all, the 50% of the population that is able to form lasting marriage figure gets slammed down.

    We don’t know if those claiming intent not to get married would keep their word, but with the Divorce 2.0, it is almost a slam dunk. The figure is about 16% of men at present. The figure for spinsters did not change much over time (4%), but one has to add women that do prefer a common law (don’t get high on the marriage idea) and also the women that likely won’t get to marry because they only encounter marriage refuseniks during their fishing expeditions. The estimate formula for the figure for people that marry and never get divorced gets pretty complex, but after making a bit of educated guesses and running some calcs, it would near 43% of total population.

    Given that the figure in 1950 was about 87% (discounting for spinsters, unmarriable omegas and divorcees), for a 60 years, that is a dramatic change.

    I’d say social engineers ‘been busy, if I were into conspiracy theories.


  295. Strange how it is so easy to have an eagle-eyed ability to ferret out others motives and foibles and so damn hard to turn the lens on ourselves. When I get irritated about, say, many feminists and other knee jerk liberals inability to get out from under their favored world view to accept new facts that might challenge them, my first though is “Damn, I wonder how many of my strong beliefs result from the same process, that is, beliefs pre-existing engagement with the evidence” (see today’s Boston Globe article:

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full)

    And when I see this chick obviously retroactively reading a narrative and purposiveness onto what was obviously a series of organic choices driven by impulses hidden from her conscious scrutiny at the moment, I can’t help but wonder if this isn’t broadly descriptive of human action generally, but simply on a greater level of complexity so as to make it less obvious. I suspect she really believes her own narrative.


  296. @ Mencken: “And the scary thing to consider is how often all of us retroactively impose a coherent narrative on a life (our own) that was nothing more than a series of organic decisions made for reasons beyond our conscious scrutiny, but only falsely “clarified” later by our feeble reason as though those “reasons” were the cause.”

    That is so profound and true that it needs to be quoted again. I use that as a kind of litmus test to see whether a person is self-aware and intellectually honest – can they admit that?

    It’s a blow to the ego to consider it.


  297. By reading these comments it seems to me that very few if any of you were athletes in college. There are Karen Owen types at every college in this country, always have been.

    It doesn’t matter if its a particular Frat or Sports team, male or female, these people are just groupies. They want to hang with the team. It makes them feel like they are somehow more important because they get attention from people that everyone else has to watch from the stands.

    Its more about Social Status than anything else. You can spit the best game around, but unless you’re on the team, you aren’t getting any play from a chick like that. And just because your on the team doesn’t mean you’re an alpha badass. You’re just good enough to be on the team and that’s all it takes to knock it with the likes of her.

    I played DIV II Hockey at an insignificant school in the Northeast and I can remember at least five girls who had a worse cock count than this ho.

    What I find more interesting is that fact that she was outed by a female she considered a friend. That speaks more to the evil nature of women more than anything else.

    Sometimes bitches be crazy.


  298. @Mencken,

    I am a “feminist” in that I think women should be judged, in situations where their individuality is important, as individuals.

    Of course.

    But we’re talking about evaluating women as potential mates and/or sexual partners (short-term). That’s not an individual value independent of social class; ie, I only fuck women, so a person has to be a member of that class to even be considered; within that, I don’t like older women (35-40+), really slutty women (left undefined here), virginal women, unattractive women, obese women, etc.

    That’s all discrimination.

    When I’m looking for a mate or even a ONS, I’m not just looking for a hole: I’m looking for a female. Of course she’s an individual, but she could be the most amazing individual in the world, but if she didn’t fall into my categories of acceptable mate, …

    And we’re not hiring a women to be an engineer, here. We’re evaluating the *sexual* behavior of a specific woman, and others like her.

    On that score, we’re in the clear for treating her as an individual. In this context, she’s a member of the Sexually Available Class, Potential Target, and therefore we can use our regular filters to filter however we want. Even if just in theory.

    But I certainly don’t believe this will result in equal group outcomes or that one can’t usefully act on group data in situations where probability is important and where the risk of unfairly slighting an individual’s rights based on group data is minimal. I believe people should be given the chance to be individuals regardless of their race, gender, etc. but that it isn’t surprising, not does it need “fixing” that different populations (by race, gender, or whatever) exhibit different distributions on all sorts of variables.

    Your words don’t make you *any* kind of feminist by a modern definition. You’re just not a knee-jerk misogynist. You don’t believe in the primacy of female power, you don’t apparently believe in the Theory of the Patriarchal Oppressor, and you appear to approach individuals as individuals.

    I would point out that all of the left and feminists in particular don’t see people as individuals first: They see them as actors in a Grand Drama, representatives of Categories and Labels that take precedence over their individuality (when convenient for power debates) or recede into the background (when convenient for power debates).

    For example, a woman should be judged on her own merits as a human. Except when she’s black (more rights than a white woman as compensation for perceived wrongs in the past/other environments). Or except when the rules seem to favor men (or she just doesn’t find them convenient – long hours in the office, etc.). Or when she calls in to a rape crisis center and says she’s been raped (whereas a man will need all types of evidence and a credible case, she’ll be believed regardless – and we all know women never lie, right?). Or when women need the child support money the courts extracted from the man, but oddly don’t need to be honest or fair about visitation.

    So – if what you say about your beliefs is true, then, for an absolute certainty, you are no kind of feminist at all.

    Feminists are about many things, but one thing they’re not about, all the branches of feminist: Is Equality.

    Me, I’m all for Equality. But I’m for that old concept of Equality that implies actual, er, equality before the law and in every other respect.

    It means: Don’t expect me (as a member of “male” category) to do squat as a function of my category. I’ll do it as an individual if I so feel like it. If not – then it’s as an individual that I refuse. Not as a “man”.

    At least, when I’m talking to feminists. They talk the good talk about equality, but when they get it delivered, they usually put RTS on the label and get rid of the package.

    So don’t pretend to call yourself a feminist.


  299. @Me, Here (Sylvia from Isteve): “Scrapping with readers in the comment section brings no benefit to the writer”.

    The comments in these sections are hilarious to read. He rapes with joy, like a demonic tyrant unsheathing his cock and plunging it into the depths of commenter’s holes.

    They validate the writer as someone who can think on the fly, can write with verve and perspicacity effortlessly, and can utterly demolish and embarass liars over and over again (it’s immensely satisfying to watch dipshits get squished like bugs). It shows he’s legit. Roissy, you motherfucker, who or what are you.

    [Editor: I had to ban him/her/it because it was obviously trolling. Trolls are getting harsher treatment from the staff here because they drive away smarter commenters.]


  300. on October 13, 2010 at 11:00 am Gunslingergregi

    Can we get a post on how every choice is not either or.

    Everything is not a multiple choice test.

    Sometimes you can choose more than one option.


  301. I agree with you Gorbachev. We would be stupid not to make decisions based on sterotypes (which exist for a reason, of course) in many situations. It doesn’t hurt any individuals for me to “play the percentages” in dealing with groups with obviously divergent population distributions on many personal levels.

    “So – if what you say about your beliefs is true, then, for an absolute certainty, you are no kind of feminist at all.”

    Well, of course there was a time (and still are people, especially in third world shitholes) who think women are in some fundamental moral sense, inferior and the fact of their gender alone should dictate their individual options regardless of where they lie on the gender population curve for the variable under discussion.

    I have to admit, all of these discussions are merely academic to me – I can’t think of any way I have personally suffered from any of the issues discussed here.


  302. @Mencken,

    You’re not noting anything profound.

    Most human reasoning about actions is actually rationalization. That’s obvious to almost everyone. There’s a reason we do it: We need to construct narratives for our interactions with others on a social level.

    This is the key. On a social level.

    That social level is almost everything for most people. And if you can’t write the script for yourself – then you can’t write it for others.

    It’s why so few people, murderers included, think they’re evil. They’re not – in the script in their own head.

    Story:

    I knew a guy with Herpes. He deliberately infected as many women as he could. He pretended not to know about his infection or wrote it off as insignificant or pretended as if he just didn’t care and wanted sex, and the disease was irrelevant. In fact, he was deliberately infecting women on purpose, as he much later admitted to someone I knew. Why? Any woman who bedded him the same night was a skanky ho who deserved to be infected. He had a dislike of women he kept hidden – even from himself. His world was “Skanky Hos” and “Other Women”. If you fell into A, you deserved to get a disease.

    When asked, I believe he honestly believed, at times, that he was just lazy or sexually frustrated or thought herpes was insignificant. In fact, this was not the case at all.

    But he was able to convince himself of this.

    This is something, incidentally, women do all the time. The Rationalization Hamster is a real faculty. They excel at it in every way, in every circumstance: it’s why women are generally viewed by men, and this is cross-cultural and goes back deep into recorded history, as fundamentally irresponsible.

    It has nothing to do with power. It has nothing to do with the lack of it. It has nothing to do with anything: it’s biological. It’s programmed. We can all do it, but no man can do it the way a woman can.

    It’s why men are ridiculed for “thinking like a woman” even when they’re big and strong and Alpha. It’s because this is how women think: They don’t. They rationalize. They live in a social network of excuses and sliding relationships.

    When a man fucks up, the single greatest measure of his Manliness has always been his ability to take personal responsibility and admit failure. It’s why we have abiding contempt for men who weedle their way out of situations. It’s why corporate men are often seen as disgusting. Lawyers especially.

    So what you’re talking about isn’t profound at all.

    In fact, it’s mundane. On a basic level, we all understand this and know it and operate within its restrictions. We build our world up from rationalizations.

    But some of us are better than others. And women are much better at this than men.

    I’ve never seen anyone lie to anyone else the way I’ve seen a woman lie to herself.

    And I’ve never seen anyone as immune to the obvious truth as a women who’s lied to herself.


  303. @Gorbachev

    Not profound, just depressing.


  304. on October 13, 2010 at 11:17 am Gunslingergregi

    ”””””’Well, of course there was a time (and still are people, especially in third world shitholes) who think women are in some fundamental moral sense, inferior and the fact of their gender alone should dictate their individual options regardless of where they lie on the gender population curve for the variable under discussion. ”””

    Have you lived there?

    There is that thing you were talking about beliefs and shit.

    In what way are the woman treated inferior in other places?

    How are woman in america treated inferior?


  305. Gorby: “You’re not noting anything profound.

    Most human reasoning about actions is actually rationalization. That’s obvious to almost everyone. There’s a reason we do it: We need to construct narratives for our interactions with others on a social level.”

    Haha, Gorby I think you lack some perspective on this and are projecting your higher awareness and education onto other people. Curse of knowledge, yo. It reminds me of how scientists snickered at the title of Francis crick’s book The Astonishing Hypothesis (to them, jaded by insight, there was nothing astonishing about the idea that consciousness is a product of the physiological activity of neural tissue).
    But it is astonishing.
    It’s far from obvious to almost everyone.


  306. but unless you’re on the team, you aren’t getting any play from a chick like that.

    yeah, true that. I bet it’s kinda like the post on gaming scene chicks but with more stringent entry requirements.

    Anyway, Owen’s groupie until graduation.


  307. @Mencken,

    Well, depressing is a state of mind, an approach.

    There’s lots more to be depressed about when it comes to human behavior and thought processes.

    On the other hand, you can be depressed that deer overeat and their populations regularly crash, or that voles often eat their young, senselessly, or that parasites often defy logic and kill their hosts, or that birds waste a whole helluva lot of fruit–

    But what would be the point?

    People are people and women are infuriating and untrustworthy on a basic level and men are violent and often stupid–

    What are you going to do? Once you accept that this is how people are, and this is how women are, and you just try to understand it, it’s not depressing at all. It’s like weather – it just is.

    This is how you get over the whole Women Aren’t Like That In Reality wakeup call men often get. No point in hating them.

    Understand them, redefine your relationships with them, accept them for who they are and deal with it. You don’t need to trust them – when they say things, you can smile and say, yes, dear, I understand that you might think that – but then call them out when you need to and otherwise just deal with it.

    No reason to hate people. Same goes for anyone.


  308. @ Gorbachev

    I agree.


  309. @Legion
    But it is astonishing.
    It’s far from obvious to almost everyone.

    Actually, I think it is obvious. People act with this knowledge, even if they don’t consciously think about the process all the time. No-one assumes that other peoples’ narratives about themselves are true without examination. It’s why it’s a mundane and obvious thing to note. We all have a certain level of disbelief when it comes to other peoples’ understanding of themselves.

    Pointing out that we rationalize most of our behavior, and that women do it far more often and much more impressively than men, is simply stating the obvious. Anyone who actually takes the time to think about their world and how they relate to it will come to the same conclusion, even if not stated as directly as this. They operate under these assumptions.

    Women often don’t. That’s because their rationalization hamster has turbo jets. They also have to believe in the process, for their rationalizations to have any tenacity.

    It’s why logic and reasoning seem to fail them so often. And it’s also why logic and reasoning are so flamboyantly absent in post-modernism, on the Left and in the left-humanities in the colleges these days. It’s the style of thought. Virtually all feminist/marxist/post-structuralist/etc. thought is riddled with this type of “reasoning”, short on facts and huge on interpretation.

    They go so far as to deride reason and logic as tools.

    But the process is the same. It’s the programmed-in human response, that mostly women use but men can emulate when called on or trained to do it (or often, as, say, gay or asexual academics – female-identified men).

    The religious argue from the same fundamental patterns.

    It’s why science and reason are always under such fierce assault. The Rationalization Hamster hates the tiny inconvenient fact.


  310. Yard Stick

    Why didn’t anyone mention that the vast majority of comments at Jezebel disapproved of this woman’s actions?

    So now, the “Standard of Greatness” has lowered yet further to include babes who actually voice disapproval of a rampant whore in their midst.

    The only readers/posters here who read that cuntcheese have shriveled balls the size of raisins – which, explains your interest.


  311. Mencken, individual needs that harm a society should be done away with by that society for a lot of reasons. First of all, because a person’s decisions impose a social cost on society that should be internalized by that person through ostracism or whatever. And conservatism has nothing to do with free markets. Actually, conservatives got to that because they simply lost every single other argument. The truth of the matter is that allowing any social choice is the same as legalizing fraud. Just because I sucker people into a Ponzi scheme, doesn’t mean I should be thrown in jail. It’s how I understand business and how as an individual I choose to do business. You can extrapolate this example to social attitudes. Oh, and men thinking like you are the reason why I largely don’t give a F anymore about society or anything. Do whatever you want, I’m out.

    Gorbachev, things are actually deeper than that in the realm of attitudes and core values. Most people believe what makes them feel good and in regard to quite a lot of things, society reinforces what those people regard as positive since everyone wants to fit into that society. There’s a study in communication that 90 to 95% of people have no political beliefs and they simply believe what makes them feel good about themselves and makes them feel approved of by society. Or even a better example – daycare. Most evidence shows that dropping your children in one under the age of three has bad effects on them. Yet that would make people feel bad about themselves if they did it, so they need studies who show that the opposite is true. Welcome to cognitive dissonance. Since I changed my social attitudes quite a bit in my life, it’s a really painful thing to do. Most of us aren’t really logical individuals(ha, that’s one of the nails in Ayn Rand’s coffin), we are approval seeking individuals and we seek approval from our moral authorities. For example, it was hard for me to unbrainwash myself of the gender egalitarianism and it wasn’t a pleasant chore(being right though is something that feeds my vanity, so I had to do it lol). But I got to the conclusion that it’s an idiotic belief, even though I was emotionally attached to it. It was the same with rejecting universalism.

    Bling Bling, I’m against women being in the army, but not for the reasons that most people would expect. I’d have no problem with volunteering to one of those crappy factories that makes bullets if needed be, but I would hurt troops effectiveness more if I was in the army than I would help. Men have an instinctive trait to be protective of women. You should look for the studies that the IDF did related to this. Also, I weigh 105lbs. You really think I could drag a 200lbs man with all his equipment out of enemy fire? I know I couldn’t. There are troop morale issues, jealousy issues and so on. The army isn’t for social engineering non-sense. But if women are to be drafted, we should have different divisions than men so that we actually help, instead of hinder. If I was a man too, I wouldn’t want a woman in my division because I know that if the enemy shot me, she wouldn’t be able to drag me out of their crosshairs. Also, we don’t really have the psychological profile for fighters. There are millions of reasons why it is a piss poor idea to have women in the army, especially if you don’t seggregate it. I agree with you though related to double standards. Just because things ARE in a certain way(men and women are different) it doesn’t mean we OUGHT to treat them differently. But why should we treat them the same? How things are aren’t indeed an argument for how things should be, but I hardly see any arguments on the equality side either.

    And holy shit people, cut it off with the paying women for lap dances and how alpha that is. Half of the comments on this blog post are about that.


  312. Yeah, that’s true, but people don’t consciously know that they’re rationalising. They’ll never admit it. And they certainly don’t know that memory is a selective historian, weaving a coherent narrative from the morass of hindbrain-driven “decisions” and accidents of fate that make up their lives. If you think this is “obvious” to nearly everyone, you’re simply caught in the curse of knowledge: it’s hard to imagine that others don’t understand what you understand at a deep level; it’s hard to imagine what it’s like not to know what you know.

    Lefties and pomos and theists and women (and men) are unaware that cognitive dissonance exerts an iron grip on their minds, filtering evidence to prevent them from the horrible truth of their hypocritical, reality-raping, self-delusional ad hoc narratives. They shriek and rage and burst into flames when reality is shoved in their face, which is why reading this blog is so satisfying.


  313. @RV.

    You’re right – most people just believe what makes them feel good – or rather, what they find expedient or convenient.

    We lionize people with actual “principles” for this reason. And yet, we rarely understand them (the people or the principles).


  314. chainring

    @rebelliousvanilla
    So where do you live? And do I need a time machine to get there?

    You are giving a lot of us guys hope. Maybe I need to start going to church (per Thursday’s posts on chaste church girls) and stop hanging around with the sluts of NYC.

    Be careful hoss.
    Blond 15 year old girls are always five different personae before they hit 18.

    depending on which way the wind blows, By the time they settle on an Identity, they can just as soon end up a Lipstick Lesbian Recruiter for SCUM


  315. “I am charlotte simmons” on crack. tom wolfe is god and called this one. his daughter is dukey and the book was based on duke. duke has a vicious social competition, hottie chicks, status whores and insane academics… recipe for a freakshow that gets in the news and books ever few years. macochistic females desperate for acceptance are de rigeur.


  316. I have no dog in this fight. I’ve been out of my small, private liberal arts college for 20 years and can tell you that every skank I knew who hooked up with tons and tons of guys are now very well taken care of by middle class but boring betas. They are mostly stay-at-home moms who tend to their McMansions and such.

    Don’t kid yourself, Karen Owen will probably have the same fate.

    We can project all we want about their current psychological states or whatever, but the bottom line is that they are all now pampered poodles married to “low quality” men. Bah!


  317. Chainring etc.,

    Girls with sense are not so rare as all that, even in the USA the brainwashing doesn’t reach everyone, but you won’t find them in any obvious places — you just have to get to know as many as you can, gems can turn up almost anywhere. (OTOH, RV is one of a kind.)


  318. Gorbachev, I disagree. We USED to lionize those people. Now we lionize people that make us feel good about our decisions and remove the social or other costs of those decisions. :) Feminism, multiculturalism and so on are great examples of this.


  319. @rebelliousvanilla

    chain, I live in Eastern Europe. And why wouldn’t a woman write that?

    Because your comment about western society externalizing the costs of sluttiness rather than forcing sluts to internalize the costs of their behavior reeks of reason and big-picture thinking and is devoid of “me-me-me”.

    Apologies for accusing you of being a man. Perhaps I’ve been hanging around too many western educated women and have forgotten that some women are capable of seeing beyond their own nose.


  320. First off, this business about the ‘list’ accidentally leaking out for mass consumption is bullshit. This woman spent a lot of time and energy on producing this PowerPoint presentation, with every intention of the whole world seeing it and most-likely ‘leaked’ it herself.

    What motivates a woman to do this?

    Freud would tell you she wants to fuck her dad.


  321. It bears repeating:
    She paid for the honor of being a groupie.
    Her degree is for something so meaningless that this thing can be her honor’s thesis. (well, actually, it isn’t clear what the hell she did at Duke and why this slide show was made).
    People are talking about a book deal? movies? Idiocy! Where’s the character development, plot? This isn’t even Tucker Max, let’s go out and get laid. You can’t make a movie about the walk of shame. She doesn’t find love, acceptance, or a god forbid, learn a valuable lesson.
    The only thing she learned was that her cooter got a little looser after hooking up with larger members of the student body.


  322. @RebelliousVanilla

    Nobody ever made a comment that said convincing a regular woman to strip or do a lap dance is Alpha as opposed to just a brazen request that a lot of normal women, both in the USA and Romania will oblige.

    Most of the attack comments on such a mundane subject take the feminist position that a guy who does this now and then must be the opposite of Alpha (a shaming position), when the reality is its an entertaining diversion a man might make once or twice a month that’s better than not doing anything at all with someone who isn’t marriage material and not worth taking to dinner and a movie (or taking her to dinner and a movie would interfere with relationships with more important women).

    Frankly, I’m tired of the bullshit shaming techniques applied to the subject as most American men whether Alpha, Beta or Gamma, get lap dances now and then with young college or community college “pros” (in the USA there’s a strip joint in every town helping female students to pay their college tuitions) without knowing how easy it is to convince a regular woman to do the same thing (USA or Romania). If one can pull it off with a regular woman, others don’t have to call this type of persuasion “game.” In fact, an aspiring PUA can ignore the topic and just say “my game with that 19 year old last night didn’t work out so I’ll try that 24 year old instead” – and not care that the one way that 19 year old might have put out is if he’d tried a more direct, mercenary-oriented approach as a last resort.

    A real Beta is someone who misses out on a lot of fun because he was shamed by a few woman commenters (or envious married guys) on a blog into thinking it wasn’t “alpha” to have the fun.

    Its, of course, a pretty lie in need of perishing to suggest that half of all Romanian or American women are NOT ready to lift their shirts for a reasonable sum. I don’t know what the official stats would be on that because almost all regular women would lie on any survey on the subject. Women also won’t admit to wanting an abusive jackass but there are plenty of posts here about how that’s simply not true.

    If there’s anything to get from this blog is that a man must not trust anything a woman actually says as opposed to what she does in real life up close and personal.


  323. @polymath

    Perhaps you’re correct that sensible women are not so rare, even in America. But I live in NYC, ground zero for slut empowerment and hamster training.

    As an example of what I consider fairly typical female thinking, have a gander at this conversation I had with an early 30s single woman who lives in NYC:

    http://mgtow.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=3634


  324. on October 13, 2010 at 12:52 pm Gunslingergregi

    ”””””And holy shit people, cut it off with the paying women for lap dances and how alpha that is. Half of the comments on this blog post are about that.””””

    And how does that affect you?


  325. chain, one of the reasons why I’m knowledeable about things and interested in the truth is because being right feeds my vanity. So it is about me, to a certain extent. And since I’m not a slut, making sluts internalize the costs of their actions benefits me. So it is about me again. I’m not entirely selfless in the things I support – the way things were appeals to me. But you’re right, in the current setting with how completely irrational people are and how this puts me off from marriage(since the consequence of marriage would be me having children and society fucking them up would make me suffer a lot), feminism benefits me. I’m still not decided if I should marry and have a family or have a career and not marry. If I will choose the latter, then I will support feminism. Obviously, I find it a silly ideology based on false premises, completely illogical and so on. But it would benefit me and I’d have no stake in how bad things would get since I’d largely not really care about other people(having a family would force me to care about other people since I’d live in that society and my children would have to grow up inside it). I have no idea what to do. Obviously, I could be against feminism even if I decided to have only a career, but around 17 I realized that principled people that are honest and have moral integrity are net losers today.

    Death, spent a lot of time? I found the quality of her writing mediocre and repetitive. It’s like the powerpoint presentations that I make in the half an hour before a class during which I have to present something. Oh, and Freud had a lot of false theories. The number of men this woman has in that presentation would be an ‘achievement’ for me to shag, but I do understand the appeal of doing it. Being with different men, just like for men being with different women, is interesting. It’s probably the novelty and discovering something new. And there’s also the fact that humans aren’t really monogamous instinctually, which people in his time didn’t want to accept.


  326. Jerry said “when the reality is its an entertaining diversion a man might make once or twice a month ”

    Right, there is not much difference between watching a stripper and watching Star Wars. Geez, some guys even get hard-ons over Carrie Fisher.


  327. Guns, the scroll of my mouse is faulty, which makes scrolling over the tons of non-sense even harder than it usually is. Besides, I’m entitled to men doing things to please me. /sarcasm

    chain, related to that post. From what I learned from and about men, men also want a female companion in life, a person to share things with. It’s ironic, but I wonder why women don’t usually come to this conclusion earlier in life – that all the sex and so on is in the end pointless and that having a proper relationship is a lot more fulfilling. I suppose people are unable to feel the difference in between sex and intimacy either. Meh.


  328. on October 13, 2010 at 1:10 pm Gunslingergregi

    See whether the bitch is a slut or not a slut they want to control men.

    Give me a slut at least they put out.


  329. @Thunear

    I wouldn’t go that far. Remember, if a man can convince your girlfriend to take her clothes off for him for a month’s rent that her hamster will rationalize, he’s affecting where you stand on any Alpha-Beta scale.

    Let’s take “Indecent Proposal” as an excellent example. Who was the Beta Boy in that story? Hint, it wasn’t the Robert Redford character. ;)

    This can be the ultimate diversion, short on the Alpha-Beta scale of actually convincing that 19 year old 9 to do it because you have “game” or “good looks”…but way ahead of the Betas and Gammas who jerk off to Carrie Fisher as a 22 year old in a film.


  330. @Thunear

    A better example: you are competing with another guy for a regular woman in a college sports bar. She turns out to be a slut willing to go strip for him and his frat buddies for a Ben Franklin. You go back home to watch Carrie Fisher. But you know you’d like to be a fly on the wall at that frat house.

    It doesn’t matter if you convince yourself she “wasn’t worth it”. One form of entertainment is clearly not the same as another. ;)


  331. @RV

    chain, related to that post. From what I learned from and about men, men also want a female companion in life, a person to share things with. It’s ironic, but I wonder why women don’t usually come to this conclusion earlier in life – that all the sex and so on is in the end pointless and that having a proper relationship is a lot more fulfilling.

    American women *do* understand that having a proper relationship is more fulfilling than endless rides on the cock carousel.

    But feminism has taught women that they can have it all – have fun on the cock carousel when you’re in your 20s, start looking for husband material in your late 20s and get married in your early 30s.

    What feminism didn’t teach these women is that they cannot fully externalize the costs of her choices. A lot of good men are simply not interested in an aging slut. As a result, you have all these 30 and 40-something single women who complain about the lack of good men, or how similar age men are immature in that they are only interested in younger women.

    By placing the blame on men, these women are blind to the fact that men are merely reacting to the choices these women made. And since the blame is on the men, not all the poor choices of the women, these women are unable to educate the next generation to make better choices. And the cycle continues . . . at least until societies that are not fatally infected with the femivirus take over.


  332. My cock on a block UGH prick on a brick that BOTH those two cum-dumpsters are walking talking living breathing STD-hives. What a waste of white skin. No wonder our race is dying.


  333. Roissy epic fail on this…

    This is a seminal piece on sluttitude & rare open Alpha bashing and you do a Cut & paste and some gibberish?

    Random thoughts
    ———————-

    -Lot of Faker posts here…esp, the Blond porn chick above

    -In reality she can change her name to K. middle name Owen and be fine.

    -Real test of slutiness is when she got banged by 2 guys in < 1hr @ SUV

    -Duke still ranks in Top 10 on US News above a few Ivies…though i believe NJ schlock/douche/meat heads go there.

    -Lot of hot Women have manjaws/brows from Angelina to Ursla Andress of 007

    -Overall, lots of us are closet-Taliban…

    we party, watch porn, date hos….but when one advertises it…we essentially want a hi-tech stoning of her a la Taliban

    Hypocrites

    [Editor: Silver, you totally misread the spirit of the post. It's nothing to do with wanting her "stoned". It's no skin off most anyone's nose here how many cocks she rides. It's instead a helpful reminder -- one you won't read about anywhere else -- of what exactly she has lost with her choices and what she hasn't gained, a highlighting of the hypocrisy of those who would rail at men for doing the same, and an examination of her real motivations. She perfectly encapsulates the stillbirth that is spewed out by the current configuration of the dating market.]


  334. chainring, that conversation was really depressing. I don’t know how you could stand to be in her company for so long. This is why I found the TV show “Sex and the City” to be such a screaming horror. It’s not just that those women were so incapable of forming proper emotional connections and attachments with men, it’s that there was not even a hint that the possibility existed of something incredibly deeper and more satisfying than the superficial relationships (both long- and short-term) these women had.

    The Duke slut reveals in her writing a similar incapacity to connect and attach. The guy she liked best gave her a lot more than she gave him; even though he knew it would be just a short-term fling, he seemed to be trying hard to make her happy and to connect with her while they were together and to relate to her in a personal way. She had no idea how to respond in kind, and her emotional burnt-outness is apparent not only from her writing but even from the one photograph shown above. Men who are looking for women to marry and form families with can spot that kind of hardness a mile away and would not give someone like her a second look.

    RV, you are right as usual. Sex and intimacy are different (and if I could have only one, I know which it would be).


  335. When Gorbachev talks on the micro level, about individuals, he is among the best commenters here.

    Unfortunately, the guy is also one of the most deranged commenters about race and ethnicities

    [Editor: Interesting observation, gig. I'd go a step further and note that in general people whose empathy reflexes allow them to identify closely with and analyze deeply the motivations of individuals tend to (mistakenly) map their insightful microcosmic perceptions onto a wider macrocosmic scale, with predictably deleterious results.
    In other words, that high school dropout best friend with the surprisingly quick wit becomes a stand-in for high school dropouts everywhere. Open borders and blank slateism ensue.]


  336. BOTH those two cum-dumpsters are walking talking living breathing STD-hives.

    angry white nationalist detected. FYI, STDs do not exist anymore for the heterosexual middle class and classes above her.


  337. @Gig,

    Racial reality again. Like it or lump it, you just don’t like it.


  338. @jerry: “You go back home to watch Carrie Fisher.”

    No, I don’t :)


  339. Reb.Vanilla: *And there’s also the fact that humans aren’t really monogamous instinctually, which people in his time didn’t want to accept.*

    I think it’s probably a fact that humans don’t instinctually wipe their asses after shitting. I can accept this quite easily, and nonetheless maintain that wiping one’s ass is generally the civilized thing to do.


  340. I’ve been out of my small, private liberal arts college for 20 years and can tell you that every skank I knew who hooked up with tons and tons of guys are now very well taken care of by middle class but boring betas. They are mostly stay-at-home moms who tend to their McMansions and such.

    Don’t kid yourself, Karen Owen will probably have the same fate.

    Not only that, half of them are probably sharpening their cougar claws and getting plenty on the side, waiting for the perfect time to get rid of that pathetic cretin they’ve grown to hate so much, and finally realize their lifelong goal of taking half of some sucker who happened to be very boring, but smart, managed to scrape together.

    Even most Western feminist judges have the ability and will to sniff out the most obvious golddiggers who file for divorce after bogus battery charges and 7 months of marriage. But once the years have passed, who’s to say what belongs to who? And the arena for resolution is rigged in female favour, and any half decent shyster will normally shred a prenup.

    So if Western society and statistics don’t change drastically, a lot of these guys are going to be left by their “ex” slutty wife and maladjusted kids and forced to work as slaves to pay for it, some kind of gimp on the bottom of the economic and attraction scale of society. Sounds like they took the short straw to me.


  341. @ Dr. T,

    That is one possible outcome, or another is that she will make a virtue of necessity, quickly hit the wall and turn their attention to kids. And the beta, who maybe was more self aware than we give him credit for, who thought he had at least scored a chick who was down to fuck with regularity, won’t recognize the utterly changed hosebeast he is waking up with a few years later and long for the skank he married rather than the child-centric obesity she has become.

    We are all doomed – men separate sex from their other emotional need too easily and women not easily enough. This Kim Owens might not even be particularly horny, just took her forever to figure out a man wanting to screw didn’t say anything positive about “her” as a person.

    You guys should read the David Buss/Cindy Meston book “Why Women Have Sex”. Women can be surprisingly frank about their absurdly variegated motivations for having sex under conditions of anonymity (and surprisingly self-critically honest, although usually well after it could have served them). Makes men seem boringly one dimensional by comparison.


  342. on October 13, 2010 at 4:28 pm your favorite

    even if this woman’s objective is purely to nut, is it not within her right to feel cheated by a poor performance?
    the idea that women are the only individuals who seek out intimacy is huge misnomer. and your insistence of this fact shows that you yourself are hiding behind some insecurities. you use sex to promote this idea that you are emotionally superior and to compensate for the intimacy you lack in your own personal relationships.

    and while her description of her highest rank may support your claim that she was in it for some hope of a more a lasting relationship, you seem to be mocking this desire in a way that is despicable and immature.

    your overall message about women and their so-called hidden desire is what allows men to think that they can continue to sh*t on women and manipulate them with the knowledge that they are more emotionally vulnerable and prone to this desire. this is merely evidence of male immaturity. and there are consequences for this behavior. like this thesis, for example.

    bottom line: after reading this, I’d like to tell you to go f*ck yourself.

    [Editor: Did you menstruate when you wrote this?]


  343. Interestingly, the two highest rated have that quintessential PUA lanky blonde look, while the next two highest rated have that thick skinned, larger boned, fit muscular look which caused women to prefer Taylor Lautner to David Beckham and other shirtless celebs in a recent survey. The girl’s subjective ratings would seem to follow women’s typical response to appearance to a significant degree. The powerpoint’s value as a specific documentation (of the hormonal 20 year old 6.5 on the carousel, in pictures!) is proportional to the poor judgment of the author necessary to produce such a rare piece.


  344. I’ve been out of my small, private liberal arts college for 20 years and can tell you that every skank I knew who hooked up with tons and tons of guys are now very well taken care of by middle class but boring betas. They are mostly stay-at-home moms who tend to their McMansions and such.

    Don’t kid yourself, Karen Owen will probably have the same fate.

    I dunno. Maybe 20 years ago this was true. Men are even more reluctant to marry now and there are time lags between trends (ie – rampant sluttiness, divorce laws, and marriage-phobia amongst men). There are a lot of high school girls I know of now that had rather – er- high profiles that are unmarried now into their 30s. I think men are getting smarter.

    In the case of Karen Owen, she’s unbelievably trashy so any man who marries her deserves his fate. Also, in the age of the internet, your history stays with you in the server cloud at Google. Every damning picture of these trashlings that sees the light of the internet is another nail in the coffin of their eventual marriage dreams.

    20 years ago there was no internet and no digital photography and no camera phones so it was much easier to cover up your past.


  345. roissy is a historical figure chronicling the harrowing descent of late imperial America’s women into nihilism and masochism. In imperial rome, Augustus was rocked by a scandal where his daughter was prostituting herself in the forum. American Gi’s plowed through once virtuous english women during ww2. It goes without saying that the psychotic left will herald her as a hero because they understand female dignity is the Achilles heel of civilization.


  346. on October 13, 2010 at 4:57 pm blacksquirrel

    this is merely evidence of male immaturity. and there are consequences for this behavior. like this thesis, for example.

    Oh dear god!! You cannot be serious! As if these guys are suffering any negative consequences from her “scholarly publication”. I am sure they are suffering as I write this!

    If she truly wanted to “nut”, as you say, she would have kept this all on the down low (or maybe invested in a vibrator or hooked up with another girl or whoever was around) and never penned such dreck. This is classic attention seeking behavior colored with bitterness. She targeted athletes for a reason.


  347. your favorite

    …women and their so-called hidden desire is what allows men to think that they can continue to sh*t on women and manipulate them with the knowledge that they are more emotionally vulnerable and prone to this desire.

    Listen: no alpha ever ever ever wants to deprive a bitch positively squirming to get a Clevleand Steamer.


  348. @Gorbachev: as a veteran whoremonger I assure you it’s the other way around. Owen looks like many a streetwalker (in the ’80’s at least), but the blonde chick looks more like what you’d find in a San Diego bar than what you see with the pros. Actually, I can remember at least two tarts in San Francisco who were dead ringers for Owen. One did her A-levels and the other refused.


  349. Mencken,

    “I have to admit, all of these discussions are merely academic to me – I can’t think of any way I have personally suffered from any of the issues discussed here.”

    Think harder.


  350. @asfdfdsdf

    @Gorbachev: as a veteran whoremonger I assure you it’s the other way around.

    I find that shocking, but okay.

    Anyway, they *both* look like total skanks. My Slut Whore meter just blew its stack when I looked at them again.

    I wouldn’t touch either. They look like the total mount of class they have could be measured by thimbles.

    Owen looks like many a streetwalker (in the ’80′s at least), but the blonde chick looks more like what you’d find in a San Diego bar than what you see with the pros.

    How utterly depressing.

    Actually, I can remember at least two tarts in San Francisco who were dead ringers for Owen. One did her A-levels and the other refused.

    If this is true, then how depressing.


  351. “Ultimately no alpha will get into a relationship with her because she’s only in the 6 or 7 range of attractiveness. Great candidate for a one-night stand, yet nothing more.”

    Gotta agree with Roosh.

    This chick is like a solid 7 when all dolled up and dressed in her “slutware”, but she is nothing to write home about.

    My guess is a lot of the resentment on this blog is due to the fact that women have it easier than men when it come to getting NSA sex.

    A guy with 7 looks wouldn’t be able, for instance, on looks alone to sleep with 13 hot sorority sisters. He would need more than just slightly above average looks.

    The truth is, unless you are very good looking, for a guy looks aren’t enough.

    But then again, getting pumped and dumped is no accomplishment for a young, reasonably attractive woman either.

    Keeping a guy is the real test.


  352. Given how fat the average woman is, and given that she’s early 20s with a good body and decent face, I’d say she’s an 8 – purely physical, no knowledge of her sluttiness. 20 years ago, she’d rate lower, but we have to factor in fat inflation.


  353. on October 13, 2010 at 8:51 pm David Collard

    I am an Australian, and we don’t do that puerile rating out of 10 thing. But she is, of course, a very attractive girl. Nice legs, good tight figure (and she is side-on so you can see), good hair, some sense of style and fun, and well made up. She is a better-than-average girl who can present herself well. And she probably has a higher than average IQ.

    She is a teensy bit horse-faced for my taste, but she is quite striking looking.

    The problem is that she is sluttish and has poor judgement, and bad luck.

    In the good old days, she would have made some southern gentleman a fine wife. People would have said she was a “handsome looking woman” and that she kept her home in style.

    Feminism has made her famous. Or infamous. I am sure that there are thousands very like her out there.

    Every time I travel to work I see half a dozen really nice-looking girls. When I see one, I sometimes think “there goes another hot, fresh cutie off God’s assembly line.” Young ladies should realise that the assembly line never stops and their use-by date passes very quickly.


  354. David shes not hot maybe a 5 at best. I dont undertsand these 7 ratings, or maybe my standards are higher


  355. I’m sorry. I keep trying, but they still look like prostitutes.


  356. Deciding whether a women is good enough to be friend with, have a relationship with, or have a marriage with based on her sexual past is nothing but dehumanizing.

    [Editor: Welcome to the evolutionary replication matrix. Next stop: your trampled widdle feelings. Answer this question: is it "dehumanizing" to decide whether a man is good enough to marry based on his wallet?]

    Separating women into ‘good women’ and ‘sluts’ just further reinforce the fact that some people see women as nothing but sexual objects/possessions.

    [False dichotomy. The opposite of "good woman" isn't "slut". Sluttiness is one among many factors that will negatively influence a woman's girlfriend market value.]

    So why don’t those people just go for sexbots if that’s all women mean to them?

    [So, tell me, just how many cocks have you joyridden?]

    [Snip the rest for cliched fembot idiocy.]


  357. on October 13, 2010 at 9:30 pm David Collard

    Zac

    I check out a girl’s face, then her legs, then her boobs. I married a leggy brunette, with a cute feminine face and excellent firm breasts. But the breasts were a bit wasted on me.

    So I suppose I am evaluating this girl partly from a personal point of view. In terms of social signals other than looks, she is obviously a bright girl who knows how to present herself.

    There is a discussion at Haley’s Halo blog currently about what is “hot”. This girl is “hot”. Not especially pretty, not especially curvy. But hot. Her breasts look a little flat, but I don’t really rate women in that area much. I don’t like long hair either, but most men do and she has nice long auburn hair.

    As I said, I don’t like horse-faced women, but she is what used to be called handsome. She is striking looking, and even a touch aristocratic. I would cast her as the suitable wife of a southern gentleman in a movie. But, of course, modern girls aspire to be more than wives. They want to be skilful whores.

    Another sign of her physical appeal is the girl next to her, presumably a peer, who is very “hot” as well, despite pulling what my daughter tells me is called a “duckface”. (Although, on checking again, she has that problem blondes sometimes have, of really looking like a cheap tart.)


  358. @Bling Bing,

    Women who ride so many penises value themselves for nothing more than their sexual marketability. They’ve commoditized themselves, and the men are consuming.

    Nothing you wrote is germane to the discussion. We’re talking about how to approach these issues and women like this. And their behavior.

    Being all nice and feel-good is both beside the point and irrelevant. And, besides, it’s not being nice and feel-good: Look at it this way.

    This woman has seriously demeaned herself, her sex, her gender, and added to the increasing sexual-objectification of the female world.

    She’s shown herself zero respect, and barely understand the term as it applies to others.

    Think before you write, please. And coming from me, that’s really rich.


  359. I didn’t read all the comments carefully. But I did see people comparing sluts to prostitutes. Some people think that women who have sex for a little favour are simply prostitutes. Some people think that sluts are simply prostitutes because sluts have sex easily, just like prostitutes do.

    Every relationship ( friendship, romantic relationship, business partner…) is comprise of exchange/transaction between two or more people. Everyone who has sex has it for a reason: they want something out of it, whether it is just the pleasure of sex itself, commitment, or validation doesn’t matter. So if you think of women who have sex for favours as prostitutes, in a more general sense, everyone in this world who has sex is a prostitute. But that really isn’t the case.

    Also, please stop liking sluts to prostitutes. Sluts have sex as a lifestyle choice. Prostitutes have sex explicitly for money as a business transaction.

    I am not going to argue if it is ethical or not. But prostitute is an occupation. Doctors cure disease for money; teachers teaches for money; programmers code for money; Prostitutes provide sex service for money(money, not favours). So in a more general sense, money has debase us into commodities paid by the hour, or the amount of work done.

    That’s why I never see prostitutes as anything less than a doctor, or a teacher, or whatever. Because we are all the same – provide service for money.

    I wouldn’t encourage anyone to go into the sex industry because people who work there don’t seem to be very happy. But please have some respect for women, and people in general and stop deriding others based on their occupation.


  360. on October 13, 2010 at 9:38 pm David Collard

    Bling Bling

    Sweetie, you seem like a nice person, but some men do, in fact, care how many men a woman has previously had. I am an outlier, but I doubt I am unique. I wanted a virgin for my wife.

    I can’t understand why so many men will accept other mens’ leavings. It is as if they don’t mind being cuckolded in advance. There is no way I would want some man smirking to himself about how he once fucked my missus, and remembering every precious detail.


  361. sorry david shes not hot, that other silly blog you quoted doesnt verify anything. men need to raise their standards. By all means bang her, but shes’s not hot


  362. @Bling bing,

    Hey,

    Prostitutes get the respect they deserve from me: They work, I’ve never used one, but they work, and they get paid. That’s more than can be said for lots of people.

    But sluts – they don’t get paid.

    They’re fine. I have a very close friend who is mightily slutty: she’s basically a man in a woman’s body, with a very horny man’s libido. She makes no excuses, apologizes to no-one, and is acceptably hot so even at the age of 34 she’s able to snag very hot men and tool them like no tomorrow. She gets them eating out of her hand.

    But marrying my friend – you’d have to be insane in several different ways.

    I respect her hugely. Mostly because she lives no lies and is exactly who she is. Good for her.

    It’s the sluts who lie to themselves and pretend.

    It’s the women who pretend to be something they’re not and screw around like the woman in this post. She doesn’t think she’s a slutty woman, most likely. She thinks she’s good marriage material, most likely. She thinks her actions are irrelevant.

    My friend has always been the way she is: She was like that long before I met her, she’ll be like that when she’s 50. She doesn’t want kids, and doesn’t give a rat’s ass what other people think of about her. Her motto: Wives of interesting men beware. She hides nothing. And believe it or not, she’s extremely discriminating and you’d never guess she’s the way she is from casually knowing her.

    On the other hand, she’d never saddle some poor sucker by marrying him unless he knew the full scoop and was more or less the same as her. Virtually no other slutty females I know are this honest with the men they grab.

    We hate on women like the one in this post because of what she represents: more tooling of men.

    Because you just know what’s going to happen when this one turns 35. Some poor beta schlub is going to be tooled.

    (on the other hand, the woman I know will likely marry, if she ever does, a serious playboy and they’ll have one of those open marriages and remain married despite it all – she’s just that kind of woman, the guy who bags her will be some seriously unusual dude).


  363. on October 13, 2010 at 10:12 pm too late for romance

    Deciding whether a women is good enough to be friend with, have a relationship with, or have a marriage with based on her sexual past is nothing but dehumanizing.

    Are you on acid?


  364. david collarad, you’re the first man to call another man sweetie in these parts.

    good luck with that :)


  365. Bling Bling, I don’t see why I’d have to respect prostitutes. And when I compared the two, I did it from the perspective of morality. If I was a man and I’d have to marry Karen Owens or a prostitute who had the same number as clients as Karen had sexual partners, I’d marry the hooker. At least she made some money out of it instead of have student debt, so she’s far more intelligent than Owens in my book. From a moral standpoint, there’s no difference in between a slut and a hooker. Actually, if the hooker fed her starving family with the money, I’d respect her far more than I respect Karen Owens. Also, it’s what Gorb said. An honest prostitute has far more moral integrity than a lying slut, in my book.

    And should I respect a man if he is an assassin? I mean, why not respect him too? He just kills people for money – big deal. And I’m not going to argue if murder is ethical. I can’t believe how farcical your comparisons are(doctor and prostitute? lol).

    Oh, and I’m not objectifying women. Most of us objectify themselves without me doing it. And the ‘state of the vagina’ isn’t the most important thing, but what chastity shows. Someone who’d get a tattoo on his whole face might be a brilliant, cool person. But the fact that he did that shows other things too. Just like I don’t respect men who marry sluts.

    Alexamenos, you fell in the is-ought fallacy. I said that humans aren’t instinctually monogamous. I didn’t say we shouldn’t be. So I hardly see why you got all bitchy.

    chain, any sane woman knows that slutting up will degrade her ‘marriage rating’. You simply have to be insane to not get that. But what most American women probably do is blind themselves on purpose related to the idea because they find it unfair.


  366. Audrey

    If you are still there,

    You say that real alphas don’t care about a girl’s history. Once, I might have agreed with you. People also say that real alphas have sex with lots of girls. I believed that implicitly for years.

    Believing these things led me to assume that I was a “beta” (although I wouldn’t have used that term).

    But recently I have come to see, in retrospect, that I actually had choices (which is an alpha trait). I chose not to bang a few girls. One got me into her bedroom. I made my escape. Another asked me point blank to take her virginity. No thanks. Another gorgeous girl wanted to sit with me. I moved away. When I did finally lose my virginity, the girl (a married woman) had to get me drunk.

    I also exercised my choice by marrying a cute virgin.

    Conversely, I have come to see that most betas, sadly, do not get the “good girl” these days. They get the leavings.

    My point is that some alphas (maybe I am one) actually do care about a girl’s history and make choices based on that. A pretty virgin might be best placed to marry some of the alphas out there.

    Of course some alphas just want as much pussy as possible. But not all. Especially if, like me, they think women aren’t that intrinsically interesting as people to be bothered with in most cases.


  367. Chic noir

    I made an assumption from the picture. The long hair and downward, demure glance. (And what looks like lipstick.)

    Bling Bling

    Sorry, I thought you were a girl.


  368. @David Collard,
    I am a female. No need to apologize. It doesn’t matter anyway.

    @Chic Noir,
    Funny that you think I am a male. Now I have an idea for Halloween, maybe I can disguise as someone like Roissy and reveal my sex when I bring the girl home. It would be quite amusing.

    @Rebelliousvanilla, Gorbachev,
    I don’t have special respect for prostitutes. I just try to respect people who are not, in my opinion, intentionally harming others. And a lot of prostitutes were FORCED into it. I hate to see that they have been outcasted and outcasted over and over again.

    It is just that we are all human afterall…and I try to find connection that tie us together rather than differences that tear us apart.


  369. “sorry david shes not hot, that other silly blog you quoted doesnt verify anything. men need to raise their standards. By all means bang her, but shes’s not hot”

    The old guys on here are giving her too high of a rating. It happens with age, I guess. Anything thin and young becomes “hot.”

    But you giving her a 5 rating means you think she looks like a plain-Jane average girl.

    Unless you live in a college town or some foreign country where the average girl is thin and decent looking, she is not “average.”

    You should check out what the average girl looks like in most of the USA.

    Not good.


  370. [...] (who else?) weighs in on the Duke “fuck list” Powerpoint presentation prepared by one Karen Owen, and rightly notes that if the list itself demonstrates anything, it is [...]


  371. If the girl appears on cable talk you’ll know that the powerpoint was simply guerrilla marketing by a Duke undergrad planning a (Duke law grad) Tucker Max-style book for the “sluts with private school pretensions” demographic, the better to fund trips to Italy and Brazil for a sequel or perhaps chapter 2 with a publisher’s advance. Target market: titillated feminists and those handful of kids with “aspirational collegiate branding” fixations and an interest in sex.

    Was it really such poor judgment to trust this publishable document to unreliable girlfriends? Or is the author using and abusing the reputation of the (once smug pump and dump) lacrosse team to become the slut center of attention in tasteless Madonna media style, all the while pretending it was an accidental leak? Book royalties might create potential for an unjust enrichment claim if the men in question were private citizens, but puny as Duke athletics might seem, the athletes would probably qualify legally as public figures for purposes of profiling in a book. Note there is no dirt dish on the computer science and more typical male students accounting for 1,001 missing nights.


  372. I see that Vox Day is making a similar point to mine at his blog.

    I hate using this scale, but I see no alternative: a girl who is an 8 or 9 and who wants a really top quality man (an alpha) would be wise to stay a virgin or at least relatively chaste. It will lift her value and increase her chances. It will increase her pool of alphas to include the alphas that like “madonnas” rather than “whores”. (Note, some alphas are seriously religious, and being demanding and possessive can be a trait of some alphas.)

    A really attractive girl (a 10) can probably get whatever she wants, especially as many alphas don’t mind experienced girls. A less attractive girl (a 6 or 7) probably has no realistic shot at a top quality alpha – virgin or not.

    If the consensus is that Karen Owen was only a 6 or 7, she probably had no realistic chance with any of these alpha males. Not for an LTR. I have not looked in detail at her Powerpoint. It would be too dispiriting, and I want to retain some of my faith in human nature. But the one guy she slept with that I did check out was a good athlete and very handsome as well. So she was aiming high.


  373. RV is stealing words from my mouth (post-permission granted! :-)), so I can leave it at that.


  374. An alpha doesn’t give a shit about a girl’s sexual past when he has no intention of ever investing anything in her. When it comes to marriage or a serious relationship, though, the more alpha, the more he demands purity and exclusivity. That should be mind-numbingly obvious.

    Those who claim that alphas are indifferent toward a girl’s sluttiness are usually only saying so as a result of their belief that no alpha ever desires any sort of commitment or long-term relationship. Debatable, at best.

    The fact remains: if a girl is going to induce commitment from an alpha, she’d better keep her legs shut, or else (the more popular option) learn to ignore her conscience while lying to his face (and crossing her fingers in hope that he doesn’t pick up on classic slut-tells).


  375. late to the thread; but if you look at Owens’ hands you can see a low 2D:4D ratio (high T). fuckin’ skank.


  376. on October 14, 2010 at 1:33 am David Collard

    Common Sense

    Or he can use the test nature provides. An intact hymen.

    I physically examined my fiancee before I married her.


  377. I wouldn’t be surprised if this girl slept with a lot more guys than this during the time period, but only wanted to show off the best looking/highest status guys in her powerpoint.


  378. It seems to me Roissy doesn’t lie


  379. @David Collard

    That’s… so very romantic. I’m in tears!


  380. Um, it looks like the opposite, but her hand is tilted.


  381. If I was a man, I’d pick a fairly modest virtuous 8 for marriage over a slutty 10 every single time.

    I would venture that every single man who comments regularly on this blog feels this way.

    Not a chance. My girl about a nine. She’s in love and wants to marry me. I took her virginity recently.

    I’ll be dumping her and searching for a woman with a real sex drive.

    No more 21 year old virgins! I don’t care how hot. I’ll take the slut, please.

    My last girl was a major super duper slut, and I wouldn’t trade her for 10 super hot virgins.


  382. Gorb – how long will you remain in China? What city are you in? What is the monthly cost of living?

    I have some business in China that I need to attend to, and am considering a more extended stay.


  383. ” Given that most young women can get sex fairly easily, falling into bed with a man, even high status men such as the Duke athletes targeted by Owen, is not much of an accomplishment. It’s like giving a trophy to a dog for being able to lick its own balls. ”

    Seldom have truer words been written.


  384. Karen can say “bye bye” to marriage now.

    She’ll die lonely and miserable.


  385. I doubt that. I agree some others that she is a 6 and a 7 when all slutted-up. She’ll get some 4 to marry her. I think the only reason Lewinsky isn’t married is that she is pretty fat.


  386. Bling Bling appears to be a 21 YO girl. Sample entry from her website:

    “Around March, my friend showed me this book called the Rules. It teaches girls how to play hard to get. I read a few pages and kind of got the general idea. But I sort of despised that because the idea of doing things(playing hard to get) to make men go crazy after you is somewhat needy.
    The only reason I engaged to reading Roissy was because of his excellent writing skills and those funny stories. Anyway, I think I am less susceptible and more suspicious of guys now after reading Roissy.”


  387. Yes, Mats, whether lonely or not, I don’t know, miserable–guaranteed… dysfunctionality as a way of life. I think it is getting fashionable. She can’t fit into a role of victim without being miserable. Happy people are not good at being victims.


  388. Omega Dork, give K.O a few years, she’ll get fat too. Especially if she finds a tool to marry her.


  389. @xsplat

    Gorb – how long will you remain in China? What city are you in? What is the monthly cost of living?

    I was in Korea and Shanghai. I go back in a month for a month.


    I have some business in China that I need to attend to, and am considering a more extended stay.

    Shanghai’s where I hang out.


  390. Gorby just wondering what you do for a living? You seem like a very learned chap, judging from your comments (I just read your evisceration of Sex at Dawn).


  391. @Legion

    Gorby just wondering what you do for a living? You seem like a very learned chap, judging from your comments (I just read your evisceration of Sex at Dawn).

    I was all academicky until I got a job in the media a while ago. It’s a job that requires me to be Liberal and Lefty, though, as everyone in the industry is Of The Correct Opinion on every subject, and as I’m not, decidedly, I can’t go into too much detail. Being found out would likely leave me jobless. There’s no vengeance like the vengeance of SWPLs who smell traitor.

    In all fairness, Sex at Dawn is easy pickings. Nothing much there to target – just dust and air. Poke it too hard, and it puffs away into nothing.


  392. on October 14, 2010 at 11:45 am Gunslingergregi

    Couldn’t wait just a little bit eh

    Yea a homefront is good and then take vacations from that I think is gonna be my ideal.


  393. “This does interestingly refute your theory that all a man has to do to be good in bed is do whatever he feels like.”

    I am thinking of converting my oil burner to one that burns straw men. With the number that get hauled in here, I could heat my home from now until 2100.


  394. does anyone think for two seconds that this loser wouldn’t give her left tit to go to a frat formal with any of these guys?

    ivy league (or top 10 school like duke)
    + over 6 ft tall
    + big dick
    + looks
    + money
    + status
    + athletic
    + game
    = any woman you talk to will want to marry you because you embody their prince charming fantasy…. even if they don’t like you, they still want to marry you. if I were a dumb bald bouncer I’d bang chicks, but I can’t mess around unless I want a trail of shattered hearts, stalkers and crying phone calls from dashed grandiose expectations. Keep your dick out unless you are serious. Duke boys learned their lesson the hard way from this embittered woman.


  395. on October 14, 2010 at 12:09 pm Gunslingergregi

    ”””””but I can’t mess around unless I want a trail of shattered hearts, stalkers and crying phone calls from dashed grandiose expectations. Keep your dick out unless you are serious. Duke boys learned their lesson the hard way from this embittered woman.”””’

    Looks like the duke guys already learned how to play the game.

    Pump and dump.

    Don’t give any expectations to her other than a fuck and that is all.

    Don’t talk girlfriend or any other shit.


  396. Gorb – what’s the cost for an apartment in Shanghai?


  397. @xsplat–

    Hard question. The place is huge. Pudong is all expensive and is like 50 miles big – and then there’s the rest of Shanghai.

    You can get something not embarrassing for $800 a month (4000-5000 rmb); in 2006 I had a good place for $750 US, very nice pad.

    You can also go as high as 4000 a month – I’ve seen places go for much more, in fact. These tend to be, … um, … luxurious. To say the least.

    I’ve never seen a market as bifurcated as Shanghai. You get the normal people on the bottom (1000-3000 rmb), the expats (likely 4000-5000) and then the increasingly absurd rents as high as anything in Manhattan or worse.

    Houses in nice estates in Pudong can go for $10k US a month – at least. It’s absurd.

    Anyway, there’s lots online, you can go check it out. I found my place through another expat who was leaving.

    Incidentally, it was called “the pussy palace” by his friends.

    Just a side note.


  398. it appears you KJs
    don’t know BingBing is like a 17 year old from Taiwan.

    i thought hunting Unicorn fawn babies was illegal in these parts


  399. The sad part is for the guys here, that Owen would reject the beta by miles,,, at least for know. So if any lesser male would hit on her, he would be dumped, ironically.


  400. What is also very odd is her choice of a Lacrosse team as a sample.

    Americans don’t even know what the fuck it is.

    Perhaps 9,000 viewers watch it on ESPN when it’s on – like at 4 a.m. on a Sunday.


  401. on October 14, 2010 at 2:08 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea firepower the duke thing is to throw us white boys a bone.

    If they have show and tells from bitches running trains on college basketball teams there might be some riots by normal guys.


  402. lacrosse is big on the east coast. Although I’d say Duke is as far south as it goes.


  403. We all have a real strong tell as to how much of a slut Audrey has been, don’t we?


  404. on October 14, 2010 at 4:19 pm Gunslingergregi

    Well yea Doug.

    Audry seems like a chick that needs to force your dick into the back of her throat puke then be told to lick it all up then do it all again.

    Then you make her suck off the dog and she is happy.

    She thought would find her perfect man here but was unpleasantly surprized that we ain’t degenerate to that degree.


  405. Come on ! Don’t tell me you people actually believe this spoof ?

    That stuff was never written by a woman. Too funny !


  406. on October 14, 2010 at 4:58 pm Gunslingergregi

    What spoof that a woman wouldn’t have a bunch of one night stands with guys.

    What’s not to believe it happens all the time for the right guy.

    The rest are made to work for it he he he


  407. That’s not what I said Regi. You are right millions of women have a bunch of one night stands with guys.

    But that stuff was not written by a woman.


  408. Doug “We all have a real strong tell as to how much of a slut Audrey has been, don’t we?”
    –> Hi Doug! mwah xx Im a good girl.

    Guns “Audry seems like a chick that needs to force your dick into the back of her throat puke then be told to lick it all up then do it all again.
    Then you make her suck off the dog and she is happy.”
    –> Aww Guns way to get me going and then ruin it all with the dog lol.
    What girl wouldent want the first part though, from a man she loves haha


  409. on October 14, 2010 at 6:40 pm David Collard

    duxbury

    I think your point is a good one, if I understand it correctly. One of my fears in life has been leaving a trail of angry and resentful women behind me. I have only a few such experiences, but they still bother me in retrospect. Angry, dumped ex-girlfriends and fiancess also have friends and relatives, and the world can be a small place. Moreover, the girl’s side of the story tends to get believed.

    I don’t normally use such expressions, but men who do a lot of pumping and dumping are storing up bad karma.


  410. yanky

    Come on ! Don’t tell me you people actually believe this spoof ?

    That stuff was never written by a woman. Too funny !

    yeah, like women could ever be writers.


  411. Firepower, and bad ones at that!

    Any kid with 2 brain cells can make a powerpoint presentation. Sheesh.


  412. D. Collard

    Oh, for the good old days when true alphas roamed the earth. When one of JFKs woman-toys would start to make threatening noises or just call the White Houseswitchboard too often his brother, the US Attorney General, would have a little talk with her… And maybe remind her what happened to M. Monroe when she got too far out of line. Clinton forgot that he did not still live in that world.
    Here is the defect in the presentation of Game as defined(brillantly, imho) by CR. They leave out the fact that game practitioners will, sooner or later, need serious amounts of leverage in many important arenas to even survive the psychotic vengeance seeking behaviour of spurned alpha craving females.


  413. Rum

    Precisely. I had one broken engagement. I have never been a “player”. But I have had surprising backlash from the little experience with women I have had.

    “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”.


  414. I believe that vengeance is a good thing, but getting pumped and dumped as a one nighter is not an offense worth considering vengeance over.

    I don’t think she did it as revenge. I think she was just, in her way, flexing her alpha female muscles. In the U.S. a girl doesn’t have to be pretty, just skinny. She is, and that’s why guys in the “top tier” were happily lining up, and when this blows over, some beta will gladly marry her and bandy her about as superior to the fat chicks he might have been cursed with having to settle for, had he not learned game.

    Let’s be real here. Most of you would have been cueing up to be number 14 if she hadn’t actually published her list. Some of you will actually commit to someone just like her.

    Karma has nothing to do with the consequences of being an idiot who shags shameless skank. Stupidity has everything to do with it. I’m not a guy, but if I were, I would rather bang a fattie who knows the meaning of discretion than a hottie who doesn’t. Hopefully I could get a hottie who knew the meaning of discretion, but then I would probably spend a lot of time alone with such unrealistic standards.

    The dick wants what it wants though, so if I couldn’t help myself and felt driven towards skank, I’d at least take into account what I was dealing with. The bitch would be scared shitless to breathe a word about me to anyone ever. Here, we get to the difference between psychological alpha and paper alpha.

    Getting dumped by me should come with some kind of humiliation. Girls who don’t ask why are usually cool, but girls who do ask why are nurturing a little crazy. So I’d tell them that I am not interested in a commitment because something is dreadfully wrong with them that I found out in the process of shagging/dating them. Her pussy stinks, she’s a cold woman with too much mileage, she drinks too much, throwing a hotdog down a hallway…something. If someone asks me why I dumped her, I’m giving them the same answer I gave her.

    If you wonder why these things don’t usually happen to Black guys, this is why. Culturally, there is no inhibition to calling a bitch out. One protects the girl’s feelings and privacy until she steps over the line, and if she does, all bets are off. Every damned body will know why she was unworthy.

    If I was one of the Duke guys, I’d be working on my story, and it would go something like, “I was so happy to get with her until five of my friends told me they’d tapped that. I felt so dirty…”


  415. I truly do hate to say this, but Nicole is right.

    Guys will still be lining up to marry this woman.

    [Editor: If guys = betas, yes. Anyhow, even the hand of a beta in marriage is doubtful. Owen has a publicly accessible archive of her cock loving ways. That's a bit different than a run of the mill slut who can conceivably hide her past from betas less experienced in the ways of sniffing out sluttery.]


  416. Betas will be.

    Good blog post and analysis, thanks.


  417. @Gorb
    What Duke girl’s case reveals is if some girl is capable to keep her banging under cover guys would fail to know her previous conquering and would fall next prey for her beauty!


  418. on October 15, 2010 at 2:37 am Gunslingergregi

    ””””””Audrey
    Guns “Audry seems like a chick that needs to force your dick into the back of her throat puke then be told to lick it all up then do it all again.
    Then you make her suck off the dog and she is happy.”
    –> Aww Guns way to get me going and then ruin it all with the dog lol.
    What girl wouldent want the first part though, from a man she loves haha”””””””’

    Awww that is cute.

    So basically you are saying it wouldn’t be too hard to top what you have had. he he he

    So if you loved a man you would probably let him tattoo his name over 100 percent of your body with a sewing needle?


  419. on October 15, 2010 at 2:52 am Gunslingergregi

    If you think about it probably is good that multiple men get to enjoy a bitch while she is younger hotter tighter. Spreading joy to the world before they hit the wall should be considered a good thing for the ones who have that calling.

    Just all of them should be given the opportunity of giving the marriage thing a tryout see if they can make it work. Then if it is not right for them both parties to marriage should just be able to walk and go on with life.

    Lets free the ho’s.

    And the men.


  420. on October 15, 2010 at 2:58 am Gunslingergregi

    God Dam I just had a good time.

    FUCK

    Let my bitches go.


  421. @ Nicole,

    I don’t think she does it out of vengeance either.

    But these males like to think of Karen Owen as a desperate women trying to use sex hoping for future affection or commitment. They just cannot get over the fact that some women are doing it just for the sake of it. They also cannot get over the fact that some women just do not see commitment or marriage as such an important goal in life.

    I have no idea why they are so adamant about it. Perhaps they like to instil social values this way so that they can control women; they like to think that they have something to offer to women – commitment.
    Or maybe they are scared of change… My guesses are meaningless anyway.

    I have never met people(commenters on this blog) like these in real life. I wonder where they are all hiding.


  422. on October 15, 2010 at 4:32 am David Collard

    Bling Bing

    “I have never met people(commenters on this blog) like these in real life. I wonder where they are all hiding.”

    I think you HAVE met people like this in real life. They have just been hiding their true thoughts. What you see here, Bling Bing, is what people really think. They can express their genuine thoughts and feelings here because they are safe from social shaming because of anonymity.

    I read a remark from another man here today who said that he cannot express his true thoughts at his (very liberal) workplace, and would lose his job if his writings here were revealed. So, he uses a pseudonym.

    This site is probably a good thing for young women to read because they can learn what men, some men anyway, really think.


  423. The guy who topped her list didn’t do anything beta. I can see that some of you think his actions were beta, but they weren’t.

    If anything, he simply maximized his profit from the situation. By telling her a few things she wanted to hear, she drained his balls completely.

    Also worth pointing out is that same guy had a second encounter with her. He poured a beer on her head and shortly after, he fucked the shit out of her in the shower.

    Do you see what I see? He dumps a beer on her head, and in doing so, he guarantees his access to her vag until the day she draws her final breath.

    That’s not beta. That’s super alpha.


  424. Bling, I can understand why they’d view her as desperate.

    I’m no beauty queen and never was, but I have standards and at least half a working brain.

    Getting pumped and dumped by jocks is something only women who hate themselves do in college. Lots of girls do the free love thing (think American Pie band camp) and some party hard enough to run across maybe one or two frat boys they wouldn’t otherwise give the time of day, in their entire four years. If her shag list was over four years and only two jocks, one bass player, and three brooding intellectuals deep, I’d say she was a pleasure seeker.

    That’s not abnormal for a college girl. A raging slut would have five or six brooding intellectuals, a few male friends, and an orgy.

    …but more than 10 guys, all jocks and/or frat boys: hates herself.

    We used to see girls like this doing the walk of shame and wonder what was wrong with them. This is not a woman just enjoying her sexuality. What I read was a woman who is trying too hard to get approval and social status through sex.

    When you read what the guys are saying here, it’s what most guys are thinking but just not saying. It’s not always rational or realistic, but it’s what they think.

    Try to be understanding. Some of the guys are damaged by the system they’re forced to operate in. They didn’t make things the way they are, or choose how they were raised or what they got exposed to without their consent.


  425. Bling Bing,
    Karen Owen is a desperate slut. Barring one or two exceptions, she would have happily entered into a LTR with just about all of the guys on her list.

    Most of us do accept the fact that many sluts are out fucking, just for the sake of fucking. We don’t call them women, we call them sluts. I’m not necessarily making a value judgment here, I’m just using a label to identify women who engage in a specific behavior. It’s easier and faster to type out “slut” than it is to keep typing “women who fuck multiple guys for the sake of fucking multiple guys.”

    We also know that plenty of women and sluts don’t see marriage and traditional commitment as important goals in life. This is obvious when you look at the staggering numbers of single mothers who are seeking financial commitment.

    “Perhaps they like to instil(sic) social values this way so that they can control women; they like to think that they have something to offer to women – commitment.
    Or maybe they are scared of change…”

    Trust me, it has nothing to do with controlling women. If I hook up with Karen Owen and tell her to blow me, she’ll blow me. If I tell her I want her ass thoroughly cleaned and prepped for a vigorous fuck before she comes to my place, it will be clean and ready when she arrives. That is not control. That is simply me expressing my desires and placing expectations on her. The only ones who are scared are people like you. Because people like you shudder at the thought that there are still men in the world who would place their own wants above those of someone else. You fear the ‘gina tingles you get when you read this site.

    “My guesses are meaningless anyway.”

    I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement.

    “I have never met people(commenters(sic) on this blog) like these in real life. I wonder where they are all hiding.”

    Well I would imagine that most of the opinions expressed here would not go over too well in the Womyn’s Studies department at your university. I’m sure the only “males” you encounter are flaccid betas and omegas who you regard as some of your best friends.


  426. Gorbachev

    I truly do hate to say this, but Nicole is right.

    Guys will still be lining up to marry this woman.

    Peoples deep seated emotional requirement for justice will blind them to this fact.


  427. @xsplat
    People like you only can do such things who being Asian are more apt to receive used napkins!!


  428. Xsplat, as an at times wise young man once told me, “Deserving’s got nothing to do with it.”

    People are attracted to who they’re attracted to, but they actually go for who is offering them what they believe they want.

    A guy who has always fantasized about getting with the most popular girl as opposed to the actual prettiest, is most likely to marry a girl like PowerPoint Owen.

    They tell themselves all kinds of things that should be red flags, but coming out of their mouths are excuses…

    She had daddy issues, she is a liberated woman, she was depressed and on a spree, she was a sinner but now she’s saved…whatever works to make them think theirs is going to be different.


  429. Bling

    “They just cannot get over the fact that some women are doing it just for the sake of it. They also cannot get over the fact that some women just do not see commitment or marriage as such an important goal in life. ”

    And how does that woman matter to them in any way? If she’s hot, they’re still getting the sex.
    Or are you simply projecting?

    “I have no idea why they are so adamant about it. Perhaps they like to instil social values this way so that they can control women; they like to think that they have something to offer to women – commitment.”

    lol and women don’t like to think they have something to offer, namely sex? they don’t instill such social values to control men?

    “I have never met people(commenters on this blog) like these in real life. I wonder where they are all hiding.”

    Do your neighbors call you ugly when you meet them in the morning?


  430. @bling bling,

    David Collard has it right. You know lots of men who have opinions like these.

    The guy he mentions is me:

    I read a remark from another man here today who said that he cannot express his true thoughts at his (very liberal) workplace, and would lose his job if his writings here were revealed. So, he uses a pseudonym.
    This site is probably a good thing for young women to read because they can learn what men, some men anyway, really think.

    I appear liberal, well-spoken and polite. I am. But liberal – not so much. Many of my opinions would shock my colleagues.

    Most of the men I know would be disgusted with Karen Owen’s behavior. If they knew about her past, they would absolutely still sleep with her – but not seriously date her.

    The same is true for me.

    You might think it judgmental, but when choosing a *mate*, as opposed to choosing a person to fuck occasionally, almost entirely different standards enter into the equation.

    We can’t just bang anything if we’re going to marry her.

    A lot of them men you know would be the same, if not most of them. Its a visceral, real male reaction. It’s likely programmed into us, actually.

    There’s a real double-standard in almost all human societies when it comes to sex, and it’s there for a good historical reason.

    This means that like me, your male friends almost certainly have the same reactions as me, and at some point, they’ll stop liberal-tinting their views and respond genuinely.

    Remember that most men, especially in academia, are dominated by an entirely female-centric world, whether it looks female or not. It bears virtually no resemblance to the world outside the university walls.

    Once you get out there – brace yourself.


  431. on October 15, 2010 at 10:30 am rebelliousvanilla

    Bling bling, you do meet people like the ones who comment here in real life. They just don’t express their opinions openly due to otherwise experiencing repercussions. Gorbachev is a great example in this regard. I can make a list of bloggers I know who don’t write under their real identity due to these issues.

    And social norms are ways in which you make people not externalize the costs of their decisions upon others. Any sane society controls certain aspects of the social behaviours of its members because otherwise certain parts of it will take part in actions that harm the rest. I will give you a great example. Let’s pick rape. Is rape being illegal an unfair way in which society controls men? Because it’s the EXACT SAME THING. And to make the analogy completely, rape laws are instilled because we like to think that we have something to offer to men – sex. Also, from my point of view, men are entitled to exert more social control than women. In the end, we’re not the ones that would die in wars or manufacture anything. Societies are created and maintained by men – always have been and always will. Just do away with all the artificial prop ups we have as women, and it would be fairly obvious and this includes everything including paying higher policing costs due to us being the ones who are usually raped. There’s no real reason men should pay taxes to prosecute rapists in your atomized, gender opposition view. If you don’t believe me that we are pretty much redundant in quite a lot of aspects compared to men, imagine two societies, one made exclusively by women and one exclusively by men. And pick Swedish men and women since they’re the most insanely egalitarian folks. It’s fairly simple – women like Karen offer nothing to society, this is why people mind them.

    Oh, and I have no problem with modern females as long as I don’t have to pay for their dysfunctionality – and this ranges from healthcare, to DV shelters, to date rate investigations, to welfare, to affirmative action policies(heck, I’m brilliant enough to not need it; it’s actually a negative for women like me since for example, I’d refuse the services of women, in general, unless they can prove they didn’t benefit from affirmative action).

    I also don’t see the relevancy of some women being forced into prostitution because MOST women have not been forced. They’re just lazy and spreading your legs is a lot easier than working 9 to 5. And the part about you trying to figure out what binds us together instead of setting us apart is amusing since you have a male – female worldview.

    Nicole, I completely agree with what you said about this female.


  432. Oh, and I have no problem with modern females as long as I don’t have to pay for their dysfunctionality – and this ranges from healthcare, to DV shelters, to date rate investigations, to welfare, to affirmative action policies(heck, I’m brilliant enough to not need it; it’s actually a negative for women like me since for example, I’d refuse the services of women, in general, unless they can prove they didn’t benefit from affirmative action).

    and to reiterate this point in a detailed manner, rob’s(fedrz’s) latest post on how to end domestic violence:

    http://no-maam.blogspot.com/2010/10/how-to-end-domestic-abuse.html


  433. Nicole: Let’s be real here. Most of you would have been cueing up to be number 14 if she hadn’t actually published her list.

    Gorb: Most of the men I know would be disgusted with Karen Owen’s behavior. If they knew about her past, they would absolutely still sleep with her – but not seriously date her.

    I don’t know about the “most” part. Apart from her unpleasant personality, 6.5 looks, and possible STDs, most men would not care for a one-night stand with a slut because most men are already in some kind of significant relationship or are looking for one. I realize you are talking about different subpopulations (Nicole: most men reading here, Gorb: most men you know), but you’ve got to be wrong about the overall adult male population.

    Nicole, you specify “if she hadn’t actually published her list” but I am sure most men here would identify her as a major slut PDQ. Gorb, you make the opposite specification “If they knew about her past” which means you are not hanging out with men who have any seriousness or maturity about relationships.

    The majority of men are aware that sex with someone you don’t like enough to get serious about is a very poor substitute for sex in a relationship where love is involved; and a majority also reasonably expect (and therefore seek if they don’t have) the latter kind of relationship.

    When I was in college there were sluts a lot prettier and smarter than Karen Owen; I even liked some of them quite a bit but would never, even when I was desperate, have considered simply fucking them, I had no interest at all in sex outside of exclusive relationships. And I don’t think my attitude was uncommon.


  434. Annette Benning “What, did you think I was a virgin?”

    Bugsy “No, I just thought there was someone you hadn’t fucked”


  435. @Polymath

    Oh, it’s pretty uncommon…


  436. Harmonica,

    So you think most men would have sex with women they knew were also screwing other men?

    “Common” does not mean “majority” by the way, it just means “not surprising to encounter”. So to refute my statement you really need that much more than 50% would have sex with women they knew were also screwing other men, because “pretty uncommon” means a relatively small minority.


  437. @Polymath,

    Polymath
    When I was in college there were sluts a lot prettier and smarter than Karen Owen; I even liked some of them quite a bit but would never, even when I was desperate, have considered simply fucking them, I had no interest at all in sex outside of exclusive relationships. And I don’t think my attitude was uncommon.

    I think it’s not common on campuses these days. More power to you for it; I was always relatively picky; but campuses are filled with guys who see women as poon supplements.

    And women who see themselves that way.


  438. Polymath, I don’t know the statistics, but I think you’re wrong. Size differential is an important factor in recognizing femininity and therefore beauty. A mature guy has to be careful not to let that cloud his judgement enough that it overrides other criteria, but most guys don’t become that mature until after the first hit.

    Since most guys aren’t extremely experienced, that first hit could be their first or second girlfriend in their lives.


  439. Polymath, I don’t know if most guys would seek commitment with women they knew were screwing other men at that moment, but most western men will certainly overlook a high notch count if the woman is hot.

    The few exceptions I know are in the mafia, super religious, or MF-ing Dom of the non “free love” variety. They don’t like high traffic women, and automatically discount someone who looks, as they would articulate it, like a whore.

    These are not normal guys. Normal guys talk a lot of crap, but when it comes down to selection time, they’re picking the Whore of Babylon with flecks of crystal meth still clinging to her nostrils.

    “She has two kids by three different men, but she’s changed. Really.”


  440. on October 15, 2010 at 2:31 pm Gunslingergregi

    I think those guys are the ones who swallowed the religious coolaid.

    Not to many woman do.

    Why if you will notice every woman always has a boyfriend but not every man has a girlfriend.

    Kind of wierd how that works but it does.

    There is always some guy fucking a chick.

    If she isn’t a virgin.


  441. I didn’t say most men would reject a woman for a high notch count, just that they would reject her for a non-exclusive relationship. Men (especially less experienced ones) can forgive a woman for having lots of past relationships if they think she will stick with them and be faithful, it’s just that they may have an overly optimistic estimate of the probability of that.


  442. 50 years ago it was common. Today, because of feminism, commitment is a long lost idea. Unless you find a religious girl or are able to game a chick or submit her ’cause she likes it, then most guys will hit it when they can get it. Up until the moment I got married, I still had the chick I screwed right before going out with my future wife still wanting to fuck me. I would of hit it, minus the fact she had gone slightly insane after I ended our booty sessions.

    This is her before going nuts: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7062645/


  443. “Men (especially less experienced ones) can forgive a woman for having lots of past relationships if they think she will stick with them and be faithful, it’s just that they may have an overly optimistic estimate of the probability of that.”

    That’s called being beta.


  444. Polymath, a hot girl is much, much more likely to be overestimated. It’s one reason why the weight loss and cosmetics industries are doing so well.

    It’s said that love covers a multitude of evils, but the truth is that beauty does. If a woman is beautiful, or within whatever the culture’s standards are for that, she can be as evil as she likes, and be forgiven.

    This is one reason, by the way, that feminism beyond secular humanism only really benefits the hot women. The standard of beauty has become something women can buy, and men are conned into believing that this is the most important aspect of it.

    It takes an incredible amount of maturity not to fall for this, that most western men don’t have, especially when they’re under 40.


  445. on October 15, 2010 at 3:05 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Nicole, I disagree. Feminism benefits the ugliest women the most because they can mate with a better man than they deserve. Since being beautiful would get me forgiven anyway, why would I be in favour of destroying standards of behaviour that would punish other women but me? You’re not making much sense there.


  446. Owen wouldn’t care if you would do her or not, as the alfas would, (the big difference btw alfa and beta in my eyes) then when she get older, she would still have plentiful of betas to choose from.
    Alfas simply dont care who they have a ons with, they will not get judged for it, it wouldnt hurt them the least, the betas try to score above their capability so they wouldn’t get tainted of being just that, even rejected by Owen in a bar.


  447. RV, women are different.

    For women, it’s not just about the sex, but securing a commitment. Feminism has only made it easier for us to get pumped and dumped, and a great many of us, despite being beautiful.

    The mean number for women remains relatively low partly because most of us aren’t getting anything out of the sexual revolution but STD’s and single motherhood.

    About the only real world benefit to anyone not hot has been to the plain girl who is extremely intelligent and non maternal. She escapes being married off young, before she figures out she wasn’t cut out for it…but these are a very small minority of intelligent women.


  448. I forgot to clarify, there is a difference between beautiful and hot. Roosh made a post about it some time ago.


  449. @David
    “I think you HAVE met people like this in real life. They have just been hiding their true thoughts. What you see here, Bling Bing, is what people really think. They can express their genuine thoughts and feelings here because they are safe from social shaming because of anonymity.”

    I have read in many anonymous blog or site about this issue. I would say people on Roissy’s blog judges the most.

    [Editor: you misspelled "tells the truth the most".]

    @Nicole
    I can see your point about the “woman hating herself” idea. But I think there are women who genuinely enjoy it.

    @Jason
    “Well I would imagine that most of the opinions expressed here would not go over too well in the Womyn’s Studies department at your university. I’m sure the only “males” you encounter are flaccid betas and omegas who you regard as some of your best friends.”

    I have never taken a women’s studies class. You assume too much.

    @namae
    “And how does that woman matter to them in any way? If she’s hot, they’re still getting the sex. Or are you simply projecting?”
    Then why are you guys shaming her? Projecting what?

    “lol and women don’t like to think they have something to offer, namely sex?”
    I think men and women have more similarities than differences. I like to think that we have something to offer to society, but I definitely don’t think of sex as something we offer.

    “they don’t instill such social values to control men?”
    Human instil values to control human in general.

    “Do your neighbors call you ugly when you meet them in the morning?”
    So you are trying to compare slut shaming to appearance shaming?

    @Gorbachev
    I do notice that some guys appear liberal though they are not.

    @rebelliousvanilla
    There are men who gets charged for raping men. There are women who gets charged for raping men. So I don’t really get the logic. I do appreciate your explanation.

    “They’re just lazy and spreading your legs is a lot easier than working 9 to 5.”
    I guess different people have different views. I definitely don’t think it as an easy job since a lot of them don’t seem very happy. Working 9 to 5 seems to be easier.

    “And the part about you trying to figure out what binds us together instead of setting us apart is amusing since you have a male – female worldview.”
    I grew up in this society so I cannot erase the worldview that has been instilled in me. I try to see men and women as equal as possible except for our biological differences. Sometimes it is hard. But I try to think in this way in order to gain insights.


  450. Bling Bing says, “I can see your point about the “woman hating herself” idea. But I think there are women who genuinely enjoy it.”

    I’m sure there are. There are women who enjoy rubbing on the stumps of amputees. This doesn’t make it normal or something everyone should aspire to.

    A few women’s fetish for being the cumrags of jocks is statistically insignificant compared to the number of women for whom this is self destructive and works against their true long term desires.


  451. bling blang
    “Then why are you guys shaming her? Projecting what?”

    figure it out.

    “I think men and women have more similarities than differences.”

    no shit sherlock.

    ” I like to think that we have something to offer to society, but I definitely don’t think of sex as something we offer.”

    then you should think so. if you look a bit deeper sex is what’s on offer from women, they just want to make the rules too.
    feminism ain’t nothing much more than that if you take out the concepts created by men.

    “Human instil values to control human in general.”

    sometimes it’s ethics. control is not necessarily a part of that.

    “So you are trying to compare slut shaming to appearance shaming? ”

    does the pope shit in the woods?


  452. Ah, Nicole.
    Fat women = men wanting to run away… or kill themselves.


  453. You need a dick? So not my problem.


  454. So why don’t those people just go for sexbots if that’s all women mean to them?

    Waiting for the cost to come down…


  455. Bitch formerly known as Rum, if you had any idea how tired I was of having this same catfight with grown “men”…

    If my appearance makes you want to kill yourself, then by all means, feel free. If this is all it takes to wipe bitches posing as male off the planet, then I’m going to start purchasing billboard space.


  456. An aspect of the Feminine in one sentence:

    the betas try to score above their capability so they wouldn’t get tainted of being just that, even rejected by Owen in a bar.

    Whatever a woman happens to think her rank, whatever a woman happens to think his rank, happens to be right.

    Game is, of course, upsetting from this point of view because it changes what a woman happens to think of a man without really changing the man himself.

    But the rationalization hamster is up to the job.

    Whatever a woman happens to think the world is like, it definitely may not be.


  457. Nicole, not really. For women it’s getting impregnated by a better man and getting a sucker to pay the bills. It’s female nature and anybody knowing evolutionary psychology realizes this. I’m ashamed of admitting it and I disliked the fact that I’m a woman due to this, but then I realized that the difference in between a female and a woman is how I deal with it. Why do you think we prefer tougher men when we ovulate and softer men when we menstruate? We want an alpha man to impregnate us and a beta man to take care of us. Actually, evolution wise, we just got knocked up by alpha men and we had our family to take care of us and the baby, so we want nurturing men like family is when we aren’t fertile. This is why women on and off the pill prefer different men. So no, for ugly girls it’s a net positive sexually – they can shag better quality men and can break social norms too. I mean, I’m better looking than Karen Owens and I could marry a pretty decent man even if I began slutting it up. But an ugly girl wouldn’t be able to.

    And you’re wrong about being harder for us to secure commitment. Stay virgin or relatively chaste, have moral integrity and be decent looking and men will line up to marry you. I’m dead serious about this one.

    And you’re wrong again. The fact that we get more STDs than men as a ratio of the population means more women get access to a smaller number of men and hence fulfill our hypergamous nature. And most women don’t mind being single mothers on welfare. The state is less demanding than a father would be.

    Bling bing, what do women offer to society? I’m really curious. As a gender, we don’t offer that much. Even most of us in America are employed in make work jobs. Sure, A SMALL fraction of us, offer more than we use from society, but for men it’s the opposite. Just look at who takes the buying decisions. And no, you didn’t understand what I said. Social shaming for being a slut is the same as passing a law against rape. The former prevents women from harming society with individual actions with external costs and the latter is fairly similar. Both seek to control actions that individuals would enterprise. So if you mind social shaming for sluts, you should legalize rape. Or then you need to find another reason why you mind social shaming.

    cheshirecat, women can offer more to men than sex. Sadly, right now we are doing a horrible job at offering anything else.


  458. RV, you’re thinking like a skinny young blonde, and not enough like a buxom bruntette or permatanned woman.

    *You* find it easy to remain chaste into your 20’s because you probably have the constitution of Mortal Kombat’s Subzero. For some reason, men like that, and are willing to endure a lot of degradation to get into your cooch.

    *You* would find a sucker to pay your bills for you if you got knocked up by your asshole boyfriend.

    *You* can’t speak on behalf of women who don’t have your options…at least you can’t until you hit the wall, but then it’s likely that *you* will find some guy willing to pay for botox, laser treatments, collagen, or whatever it takes to preserve your illusion of youth.

    The rest of us have to struggle against our nature in a world that considers us less valuable, less worth waiting for, and uppity if we think otherwise.

    We’re socially pushed into being easier, and it is very difficult for women to resist social pressure. Those few of us who are aware have to think of creative ways of not getting pumped and dumped by both cads and higher socioeconomic status guys who will use us for entertainment…otherwise nice gentlemen who are the marrying kind, but just not with lower status women because there’s no money or arm candy factor in it.

    You see, for “ugly” women, there is no positive nowadays for getting shagged by higher status men. Status climbing is a luxury of women in stable cultures where men actually tend to marry the women they shag. Those days are long in the past, and the end was brought about by the sexual revolution/feminism.

    It has not benefitted us at all.


  459. @Nicole,

    You and RV are talking past each other, because you presume you are both the same, as women. False premise. There is no convergence, because you are both of different value. Yes, you are both women, but that doesn’t mean sameness. You simply require different strategies.

    @RV,

    Let me just say it is a breath of fresh air to read your posts. Most women cannot confront what you discuss with honesty. When women are not on the pill they sexually desire a physically robust, probably tall, square jawed, square shouldered man. It is entirely physical. It’s a bonus if he is socially dominant, also. But when a woman is on the pill she desires basically a larger girlfriend; a kind, tender and educated man. I must admit this must be a kind of hell for a woman. I wouldn’t know how to deal with the fact I was attracted to an asshole. We men are quite simple.

    There has been some discussion that feminism is a movement propagated by ugly women. Like a trade union, they seek to control the male gender. Hence, on-site daycare, the criminalization of prostitution and porn, and a whole host of laws and policies to regulate male behavior. Beautiful women require no such laws, only ugly women do.

    And you’re wrong about being harder for us to secure commitment. Stay virgin or relatively chaste, have moral integrity and be decent looking and men will line up to marry you. I’m dead serious about this one.

    Agreed. It’s just basic psychology. A woman who gives it away and demands nothing in return will get a man who doesn’t respect her. Trust me on this one. I had a beautiful girlfriend I broke up with recently. She was smoking hot. But we weren’t married, she demanded no commitment, so I got bored. Women of yesterday would never tolerate this. The only reason I am alive is probably because my mother maintained her chastity. Of course it was a different world, then. They got married in 1964.

    And most women don’t mind being single mothers on welfare. The state is less demanding than a father would be.

    I don’t know about most, but certainly a hell of a lot. 40% of all children born in the USA are illegitimate.

    Bling bing, what do women offer to society? I’m really curious. As a gender, we don’t offer that much. Even most of us in America are employed in make work jobs.

    I’ve also been ruminating over this lately. It seems women have become miniature men. Sure, a woman can become a teacher, nurse, librarian or even a lawyer…but so what? That isn’t exactly forging ahead, is it? It’s simply maintaining a position; nothing more and nothing less.

    cheshirecat, women can offer more to men than sex. Sadly, right now we are doing a horrible job at offering anything else.

    We are quite simply, at a stalemate. There is no way out. There is no return to old fashioned ways either. The only talk I’ve heard is the Swedish model, where everything is 50/50. Right down the line. Pure 50/50 -in everything. Enforced by the courts. And enforced by the police. Men are forced by law to take two months of paternity leave when they have a kid. Children are split 50/50 between parents after they divorce.

    The only remaining question is, are women attracted to men who are, well…larger girlfriends? And will you live in a society where every decision you make is encoded in law, leaving nothing left over for will, volition or the human spirit? Can you live in a society where the government watches to make sure household chores are split 50/50, and if a man does not do his share of the dishes can be sent to jail for three days?


  460. Nicole, you didn’t refute any point I made. Feminism enabled female hypergamy, while getting betas stuck with the bills. This is the ideal female fantasy world in terms of sex. Let’s pick this Karen Owens woman. She wouldn’t secure the commitment of any of the men that had sex with her. They’d all be married or marry women who are far better looking than her. So she had the opportunity to have sex with them, while in the same time, some stupid man who will be in the same group as her rating wise will marry her. Any woman can find a sucker to pay for the children of another man. All it takes is lying. Most men wouldn’t ask for a paternity test and if they would, you’re bad at girl game if you can’t get him to cave on that. Obviously, it’s harder if you want to be honest and you tell him it’s not his child. But again, when I was in London, I was drunk and watching this tv show and this man who was about a 9 looks wise was dating this woman who was below par who got pregnant by her ex. Instead of finding this to be an opportunity to dump her and say good riddance, he said that he will raise the child as his own and whatnot. I couldn’t believe my own eyes. And I know men like that one, including one who is living the nightmare of marrying such a woman and raising her former kids. All women have these options, just like I can rape a man in family court despite being against feminism.

    You also need to understand how dating economics work. Women nowadays if they actually offer more than sex to men have it easier than ever since most women are horrible about it. I’m willing to bet that a century ago, I would have never had as many men love me for the way I am(I will get to that later). If you’re a decent looking young woman who wants to marry, you will be able to marry a GREAT man if you’re willing to keep your legs shut until you do(you don’t even have to be virgin, but just fairly chaste and not whorish), don’t wait until you’re 49 and be feminine. That’s all it takes. And I know women such as the ones I described above who married quite splendid men, despite not being brilliant in the looks department.

    And yes, modern women are uppity and not worth waiting for. I wouldn’t befriend ‘modern women’ and this doesn’t require a financial risk of being destroyed in court and so on, let alone marry one if I was a guy. First of all, I don’t see why I’d wait. If you’re 18, I won’t wait until you’re 27 for us to get married. Also, you’d have to offer more to me than sex that I can’t get otherwise – like children, a warm meal when I get home, proper homemaking. Otherwise, I’m not getting anything out of marrying you, besides financial risks and sex, which I could get anyway. And we’re not socially pushed anywhere. I openly tell sluts that I’m virgin and that they’re the ones with the problem, not me, despite not being virgin. I like to get them down a notch or two – I actually had this happen in college. A girl was asking us if we’re virgin and a girl said that yes and she made fun of her a bit and I told her that I’m virgin too and I see no problem with it and so on and so forth.

    You have to offer something to men in return. Sure, you might not be arm candy or be able to offer marryable men money. But you can offer companionship to them, submissiveness and so on. Most women don’t offer these. If you’re shooting out of your league, you will be used for entertainment, just like men who do this will be used as ATMs in clubs.

    Anyway, most men don’t LOVE me for my looks. Sure, those who would want just to shag me, do it for my looks, but those who really appreciate me, don’t do it for that reason. I do a lot of little things that make men like me. For example, I don’t have ridiculous requests like expecting them to clean their own house(I clean my boyfriend’s sometimes despite me not living with him), to put the toilet seat down(if I’d be a man, I’d dump any woman who expected me to this emasculating BS; actually, I do expect men to put BOTH the seat and the cover down if they flush the water since I don’t want particles from the toilet flying on my tooth brush so I hardly do it out of the princess mentality that I shouldn’t move the toilet seat), I pay my share of the dates usually and offer to do it all the time(if the man insists, I won’t), I don’t complain about where a man is taking me on a date and I try to be happy regardless of where that is, I try not to go to men and whine unless I want solutions to my problems(not just someone to listen to me ramble), I don’t nag men, I let my boyfriend do his stuff when he wants to, I learn things about the interests men have(for example, my first boyfriend was a huge fan of a soccer team and I became a fan of that team too, learned all the players, their positions and soccer in general) and I don’t force mine on them, I don’t expect my boyfriend to come shopping with me and make him wait for hours while I try on stuff and so on. For example, my boyfriend loves to fish and I find fish disgusting and I hate waking up early in the morning, but I do it for him. All these little things summed up making you marriage material, instead of pump and dump material. But most women nowadays feel entitled to gorgeous men, with fame and money while doing nothing on their part. Women now have the greatest possibilities in doing status climbing – provided they do all the things I wrote above, are relatively chaste and don’t wait until they’re 50 to marry. On average, we want wealth, looks and so on from men without even offering proper companionship. I know LOTS of men who’d marry ok looking women provided they had character, morality and were pleasent personality wise. For this, I will quote a friend of mine – I will not date any of the women in my town because I know where they’ve been. The guy is 24, tall and muscular without much fat, he makes about $60,000 an year and despite being a bit immature in his interests, he’d make a really good husband. He is a good dresser(actually, a brilliant one) and has girls hitting on him, while he proposed to me, without me even having sex with him, but that’s because I’m intelligent and have a proper personality for marriage. Since there aren’t many women with traditional attitudes and these women are the most marriageable, these women gained the most from feminism since the competition fucked itself. And I mean real traditional women in their worldview, not the kind that think they’re traditional for being fat and virgin and wanting to drop the kids in daycare as soon as they’re born.


  461. Tim,

    When women are not on the pill they sexually desire a physically robust, probably tall, square jawed, square shouldered man. It is entirely physical. It’s a bonus if he is socially dominant, also. But when a woman is on the pill she desires basically a larger girlfriend; a kind, tender and educated man. I must admit this must be a kind of hell for a woman. I wouldn’t know how to deal with the fact I was attracted to an asshole. We men are quite simple.

    You are making a false dichotomy. The first set of traits is not incompatible with the second. If you can combine alpha and beta in the right way, you will have a very happy wife or girlfriend every day of the month. If you can be alpha, you can be beta (because that is entirely behavioral) and you’re set. If you’re not very masculine physically, with game you can still be alpha, and again you’re OK. You need both attraction (alpha) and comfort (beta) for long-term relationships, and it is the combination which ensures fidelity (if you are missing one other the other she will cheat at one time or another of the month to get what you’re not giving her). And of course I exaggerate in talking about monthly cycles, both sets of traits are valuable at all times. Narciso (Johnny 5) has written some good posts about this on his blog.

    RV,

    Great posts. Being beautiful and brilliant doesn’t hurt, of course, but any woman who does the kinds of things you recommend will find a huge improvement in the quality of men willing to commit to her even if the quality of men willing to shag her is unchanged. (Well, even that will be changed, because some high-quality men won’t shag even very attractive sluts, as I discussed above).


  462. on October 16, 2010 at 3:53 pm David Collard

    RV:

    “Bling bing, what do women offer to society? I’m really curious. As a gender, we don’t offer that much. Even most of us in America are employed in make work jobs. Sure, A SMALL fraction of us, offer more than we use from society, but for men it’s the opposite.”

    RV, if you really are a woman, I am amazed that you would have the objectivity to write that. It is both true and honest.

    Nicole, you present another interesting perspective. I read a sensible remark in a woman’s magazine once, along the lines that men will mock virginity – when they are trying to seduce a virgin.

    And I agree with Polymath that Tim is presenting a false dichotomy. I have been fairly happily married for nearly 25 years, and I can attest that a husband needs both “alpha” and “beta”.


  463. Tim, I’m not talking past her. She’s the one who assumed equal options/value. You just can’t see that because you consider her higher value, and therefore, I must be wrong.

    It’s okay…and actually proves my point.

    RV says, “Nicole, you didn’t refute any point I made. Feminism enabled female hypergamy, while getting betas stuck with the bills.”

    Betas aren’t willing to invest in women they consider less socially valuable.

    Betas don’t get stuck paying the bills. They volunteer to pay the bills of the women they select.

    If a girl isn’t getting selected by betas, how can a beta pay her bills?

    On the other hand, if the girl is only selected by alphas who don’t pay anybody’s bills, she ends up having to pay her own.

    Please explain to me how being a single mom getting jack is better.


  464. There’s been a misunderstanding. I didn’t say it was impossible for a man to be both alpha and beta. I was referring to RV’s mention of female hypergamy. When a woman is confronted with men who are only alphas and only betas and never both, she will be tempted to pair up with the beta and cuckold him with the alpha’s spawn. I don’t think it is common, but I was admiring RV’s willingness to openly confront and admit to female hypergamy.


  465. David says, “Nicole, you present another interesting perspective. I read a sensible remark in a woman’s magazine once, along the lines that men will mock virginity – when they are trying to seduce a virgin.”

    …and they will claim to prefer fat chicks when trying to seduce a fat chick.

    At the end of the day though, men invest in what they view as valuable, and do not invest in what they do not view as valuable.

    A woman who understands that she is viewed as less valuable, does not expect to be invested in. So a lot of the “hypergamy” in women is incidental to who is actually approaching them.

    Along with women being programmed to do it for themselves, men are being programmed to only feel urgency about women who conform closely enough to the “liberated” amazon ideal, at least visually.

    If only the guys with a high enough sex drive and antisocial tendencies are approaching the perceived lower value girls, they don’t have a choice between fifty betas or one alpha. They just have the one alpha because the fifty betas are lined up to game the higher T amazon chick.

    To me, it looks like a setup. I’d like one guy here to stand up and say they got brutally dissed by a nice but chubby or brown skinned girl for any reason other than taking her for granted.

    I won’t be holding my breath.


  466. on October 16, 2010 at 4:37 pm David Collard

    OK, Tim. I think a problem in all this discourse is that people tend to focus on the extremes. Most men, as you imply, are mixes of alpha and beta. I think you need both to be an effective man. (To take one example, I work in a good job, but there are a lot of senior women around. It would be highly alpha but highly stupid for me to broadcast my real views on women in that environment.)

    Maybe it is an American thing to go to extremes. The problem is people then tend to indulge in self-parody, and try to prove how purely alpha they are, or how SWPL and beta. I am driven nuts by the betaising of my fellow Catholic men. For years I used to wonder why quality young men of my faith seem these days to marry such unattractive girls. I never would have. Finally, one day, I got it. They have been betaised. They don’t think they deserve a cute girl. This just boggles my mind. I mean, I had other things in mind when I married my wife, and some of the shine is off her now, but she was quite slim and pretty when I married her. But these guys are marrying fat, unattractive women. And they are quality men of good character and prospects (and not bad-looking themselves).

    Nicole, I think the idea is that, in America, beta men support the children of alphas through their taxes. I am not sure to what extent this is true, but there is feeling in the Manosphere that alphas are screwing all the women, and the productive, law-abiding, tax-paying betas are paying for it. Not directly, but indirectly through taxes.


  467. on October 16, 2010 at 4:40 pm David Collard

    Nicole, you are right about American media images of women. So many kickass amazon babes. About the only really feminine character I can think of right now is Cameron (Jennifer Morrison) from House MD.


  468. David, I think the answer with the Catholic or other Christian men marrying ugly women goes a bit deeper. It’s not that they think they deserve ugly women. They know they do. Social dominance for men is what beauty is for women.

    The bonus factor however, is that with the promotion of the amazon ideal well…think of it this way…

    Think of the ideal beauty. Yours likely has a perky but amble bosom, a small waist, shapely hips but not too much jelly, long legs, and small to medium feet, small hands maybe with piano fingers, a shapely neck, wide eyes, think rounded eyebrows, a slightly acute but soft chin line, long hair with some volume to it, clear skin from head to toe…feminine to the bone.

    That’s your 10. Your 9 would have most of those features. Your 8 would have fewer, but be gorgeous anyway…Your 5 would have just enough, but that enough would include some non negotiables, probably mostly facial and general size wise.

    Their 10 is a Lara Croft. So when they’re compromising, that’s the template they’re starting with. Your 5 might be a rectangle from the neck down, but a passable fairy princess from the neck up. Their 5 will be a square from the neck down, but it’s all good so long as she’s the She Hulk from the neck up.

    Whether or not the programming runs deep enough to actually warp the raw desires of western men, I don’t know. The research says not. The research says that men desire the same thing they always have, with some regional adjustments, and the odd cultural fetish here and there.

    …but when it gets into marriage and not just shagging, we get into social value. Feminine women, especially those with the sort of defects and signs of aging feminine women are prone to get over time, have been taking major hits since the late 1960’s. Our beauty is still desired, but our ugliness has become more socially inconvenient than masculine types of ugliness.

    It’s hard to explain, but basically it’s more okay to be a spindly old hag than a frail old lady or an old fat bitch in a polyester track suit than to be to be a jolly old fattie in a dress and an apron.


  469. on October 16, 2010 at 5:29 pm David Collard

    Nicole

    I have actually said this to my wife, about the beta Catholic boys being attractive. And she disagrees. I think there is something missing in these young men, and she notices it. BTW, I did not marry my wife just for her looks. I had lots of other things I wanted, including a decent character. But reasonable looks were a sine qua non. When I look at old photos, I am struck by how cute she actually was. But then, young people should be cute.

    When you are young, most of your friends are pretty cute. Men and women. So, you take it for granted.

    One good thing is that, while you are right about your general guide to what men find attractive, each man has his “type”, so he can be happy with that. For example, you mention long hair. I actually dislike long hair on women. I was looking at a music video last night (a classic, apparently, Don Henley’s Boys of Summer) and I was delighted to see that the girl had short hair. On the other hand, you are right about the good skin. I have rejected girls as prospects because they have rough, or even slightly reddish, skin. She has to have pale, smooth skin.

    Men tend to have little kinks or preferences, which I think helps in the mating game because it can make a 5 (I hate this numerical scheme), say, look like a 7 in his eyes, because she has some little thing he really fixates on. And it can be behavioural as well. I imagine most women do something cute and unique in the bedroom, and many a man would miss that amusing little habit or trait. And so, married couples bond …

    I only realised how alpha I really am quite late in life. I am from an older, simpler time and that no doubt helped, but there is NO WAY I would not have wanted a pretty-enough girl. Maybe these young beta Catholic guys intuit that they lack some crucial dominance. But they seem OK to me. I know one young man. OK, he is a bit odd and slightly autistic (but so am I), but he is a really good-looking bloke when you look closely, and he has a decent job. But his wife, oh my gawd!

    Interesting about ageing, feminine women. I think you have a point. The women who age worst, in my experience, are short, feminine looking girls. My wife is tall and rangy (a bit Amazon, actually), so she has aged fairly well. She could lose some weight, but it is the little, girly ones that age worst. They can look like Grannies at 40. And they can lose it overnight. I know one girl who has gone from being really cute to old-looking in a matter of months.


  470. on October 16, 2010 at 6:02 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Tim, thank you. An year ago, I wouldn’t have admitted that. But again, an year ago I argued that we should be allowed to walk topless around because men are allowed to do it and that breasts aren’t sexual objects(funny enough, I would never walk outside topless). Being completely demolished in that debate made some alarm bells ringing in my head. So it was time for some introspection – I have quite an insane mania about doing this and in trying to understand myself(ha, Polymath knows about this habit of mine a bit).

    Anyway, I was ashamed of it for a while, but in the end, the fact that I have these desires makes me even better for not caving in and cheating or having 20 boyfriends per year like Karen Owens. Related to what women do for society, I have no problems with admitting we don’t do jack squat because I’m different and my mother was different. Right now she makes more than my father and never asked him to do anything around the house. Since my mother won a few awards for her work and so on and me being intelligent like she is, I don’t need affirmative action or any pro-woman non-sense to actually achieve something in life. Actually, all of those are problematic for me because I don’t want a question mark near my achievements.

    And it’s not just basic psychology. For example, I don’t demand things from men because I enjoy pleasing people and doing that makes me feel like I wouldn’t be liked anymore. But because I’m willing to be a good person and not just TnA, I get rewarded for it(in non-material ways, since I’d be driving a convertible BMW to college instead of taking the bus or driving the cars friends give me when they don’t use them). My biggest problems were when men themselves advised me to be immoral. It was complicated for me, because I was seen as stupid for not getting money out of other men by other men.

    I’d also like to point out that in Sweden it doesn’t work that way. I’d like courts to enforce that each spouse should spend 50% of the family’s earnings and that the woman should work until she makes as much as her husband. Otherwise it’s not 50-50. It’s the man doing half of the housework, earning more and having his wife decide on what to spend the money. Not even the communists were as insane as this. And no, I’d rather not marry and be lonely my whole life than have this type of marriage. So for me, it’s simple. I’m either going to fight to get things to be like they were 150-200 years ago or I’m going to be a feminist. Because if I’m not going to have a family, feminism will benefit me.

    Anyway, I’m not so sure that cuckolding doesn’t happen that often. Apparently, 10% of people know someone else as their father than the real dad. It’s funny, I read a book written by a woman on inter-gender communication and it was pretty good, but related to this cheating issue, she said that it’s ok that we prefer manly men when we ovulate because we would love our husbands on the other times of the month. Holy smokes, I didn’t know that the purpose of men is to raise the kids of other men. Since I’m vain and I like looking in the mirror, I don’t have this problem. I would never cheat since I’d never be able to look at myself again.

    Polymath, you’re so modest. My boyfriend is another great example. He works in entertainment and has groupies(so he could basically bang a different girl every night), yet he loathes slutty girls.

    David, the only women who can’t admit that are those who need all the prop-ups to succeed in life. Since I don’t, I have no problem with expressing those things. Also, since that makes society worse off and my livelihood depends on how the society is some exposure to those problems would do good. It’s like a friend of mine said, only stupid women have a problem with admitting that the average woman is less intelligent than the average man. lol. And I disagree, most men are too beta, they’re not a proper mix of alpha and beta. Go back 100-150 years ago – that’s how men should be.

    Nicole, betas are willing to invest in women who are less socially valuable. You have to MAKE UP for that though. This is the real problem that you, Western women have. You have high expectations and you refuse to do anything to offset the handicaps you have. Any woman that isn’t morbidly obese and didn’t wait until she is 45 to want to marry, could do it to the average man fairly easily if she had some common sense and personality and didn’t shoot out of her league. If you’re a 2, you won’t marry that professional statistician who graduated from a good school and is making 6 digits an year(ha :P), you will marry a factory worker or a man with an equivalent position, even if you did things that partially offset your looks. And by the way, being fat shows some things that would make me not want to marry a woman if I was a man. I’d want my wife to be a good cook and know which food is healthy and which food isn’t. Fat women are usually horrible at that. You also seem to live in an insane world where men CHOOSE. Maybe it’s an alternate reality there, but everywhere where I’ve been around Europe, we choose and men chase. This is fairly evident in the fact that less women die without having children than men die without having children. Anyway, I’m not really the amazon woman. Those are the women men love to shag. Most of the men I know, and the quality ones, don’t want to marry those women. Oh, and my ideals of beauty come from before WW2 and Audrey Hepburn is one of the few post WW2 people I actually like looks and style wise.

    And single mothers do get things. Didn’t you know tha tthere are TONS of governmental programs for them? It’s like a marriage to a man who isn’t rich, without any demands from the other side. But again, we might want a palace or something.


  471. on October 16, 2010 at 6:16 pm rebelliousvanilla

    David, men of today do have something missing and what thye miss is this: BALLS! I told Polymath in private that I find most men today repugnant and completely disgusting from an instinctual point of view and the whiter they are, the more pathetic they are in this regard. Social dominance is important for men to feel manly. For the British, for example, their social dominance was through participating in jury duty and so on. Right now though, look at what’s happening. In Northern Europe, 70% of the rapes are committed by immigrant men and half of the immigrants aren’t working. So Swedish men basically pay through welfare the immigrants to rape their women. Any sane group of men, to begin with, doesn’t share their women and hoards the women of others. What do we do now? We bother with integrating aliens and so on, while any sane group of men would give citizenship only to their descendants. The culture overall is feminine since feminine societies bother with integrating foreigners, while masculine ones expell foreigners and take their women.

    I can explain why this is, but I won’t bother. I wonder if Roman men were this pathetic when their culture and empire were imploding.


  472. on October 16, 2010 at 6:18 pm David Collard

    rebelliousvanilla

    I agree with most of that. Very well put. I didn’t mean to imply that most men are too alpha these days. Quite the reverse. Most Western men need to increase the alpha. (I know one man at work who could do with a bit of beta, but most men I know are far too feminised.)

    The true figure for cuckoldry (“non-paternity”) is only about 1 or 2% though. The 10% figure is an urban myth.

    Agree about affirmative action. I always tend to assume that any successful American woman has done it partly through affirmative action, and so I discount her achievements a fair bit. We don’t have much affirmative action in Australia.

    Interesting that you admit women are somewhat less clever than men. I think this is true. The difference is not huge, and it shows up mainly in the area of innovation and abstract thinking. But it is there.

    This essay, by the late Australian philosopher David Stove, is a pretty good argument from induction that women are less intellectually gifted than men. But very few people will admit this.

    http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~jim/women.html

    Relations between the sexes would be a lot more pleasant if men and women would simply admit their respective strengths and weaknesses.


  473. David, so you get what I’m saying. The things you will trade off to get a suitable long term plus socially and sexually compatible partner are going to be things a guy who starts with a feminine template is willing to sacrifice.

    You don’t want a totally butched out woman, but you’ll accept some degree of boyishness in order to get someone who is fit, likely to age well, and who if something bad happens, will have the requisite drive to preserve as much of her femininity as possible as opposed to letting herself go.

    Men who start out with a butched out template are willing to sacrifice much more, and more of the wrong things. Their ideal is already half a tranny.

    Feminine (breeder type) women often don’t age well for a few reasons nowadays. I think a big part of it is the wrong diet. Sugar will mess women up. There’s a sort of chain reaction that a few girlier older ladies I’ve known are going through, that more sturdy women don’t.

    Scared me once I heard the same story too many times. It starts with the thyroid, then the gall bladder or liver, then for quite a few, the pancreas is next. That’s how it happened with my favorite aunt.

    So at 40, I’ve already experienced the hypothyroidism and fixed it. Now I’m determined not to get diabetes, because that’s the next step. If I can, I want to be sturdy as my grandmother on my mom’s side. She was living well until about a month before the end.


  474. @RV,

    Wow. Just wow. You see the bigger picture. Cause and effect. This is rarely seen in the roissysphere, or anywhere. Most women only see what they want to see, and recognize nothing else. Perhaps men, too. But certainly not women.

    Men are too beta. They’re afraid. If a man looks too long at a woman he desires in the workplace, he will be fired if she doesn’t like him. There is also no courtship, because a woman views that as too traditional and weak. Lionel Tiger has a word for the new kinship system of the west: beuraugamy

    http://www.drmillslmu.com/publications/tiger-review.htm

    One thing I have observed from the Swedish men I’ve met over the years is passivity. Almost defeated. But they don’t complain very loudly because the government basically takes care of them and women aren’t that cruel, they simply demand that men behave like larger girlfriends. Swedish men get to take time off work to simply hang around and play with their kids. The only problem is how can a woman be attracted to a doormat? And why would a man become involved with a woman who is like a mother to him? It’s very strange. Then again, I don’t have all the facts about Sweden, I am only guessing.

    Where I am, in Canada, we have a bifurcated society. Same in the USA. At the very top are alpha males. They’ve earned it. Very cunning, sharp, driven, connected and dominant. Advanced degrees. The next level down is thoroughly dominated by women – the managerial class. They own the social conversation. They own their careers, they own their children, and they have their beta-provider husbands by the balls. I am a bachelor, and belong to the next level down, the lower classes. The lower classes are filled with single mothers, bad boys and various misanthropes and degenerates. I keep to myself and ‘go my own way’. But I am happier I think than the beta-provider husband. I’ve seen the look on their faces, and it is anxious. They are just short of their wives filing for divorce, leaving them in a small apartment with no social contacts, child support and alimony. I’ve seen this pattern. It is common now. It’s part of the beuraugamy.

    But ya, keep up the good writing. You’re from Romania? I knew a guy from Romania; he emigrated to Seattle after the fall of communism. Used to call me ‘big carpathian shepherd’ (in a friendly way).


  475. David, I forgot to add other interesting feats like German children being bullied in schools in their own country(I don’t know how it doesn’t infuriate their fathers because if it happened to my kid, I’d go to school with a baseball bat and bash in the faces of the kids who bully my kids and I’m not even a man) or a conversation I had with a Norwegian men who was rambling about how good it is to be non-discriminatory and encourage minorities to do this and that. But as a woman, to me it meant this: so as a Norwegian woman, I’d be better off to have babies with a fresh of the boat Somali Muslim since he’d be propped up by Norwegian men and get altruism from both Norwegians and Somali Muslims, while otherwise he’d be discriminated against by both immigrants(not going to mention that it’s pathetic to allow this in your country), but by his own father too. I mean, it might make me unpopular, but these are the present day’s men. I told an older friend of mine that he is lucky he doesn’t have to marry one of these jokes.

    That’s a too long of a read for something that is common sense. The average female IQ is not only lower(by not that much of an important fraction), but the distribution of IQ for men is flatter, which means that there are A LOT more brilliant men in relative terms than women out there. Obviously, this also means that there are a lot more stupid men than women out there too.


  476. @RV
    feminine societies bother with integrating foreigners, while masculine ones expell foreigners and take their women.

    Masculine societies generally tend to be more territorial.

    However by taking the women they do integrate foreign genes into the next generation.

    @David Collard

    I’d agree that there are probably fewer very highly intelligent women than men. There tend to be more outliers at both ends of the intelligence spectrum in the case of men.

    However most people are not at the very high end of the intelligence spectrum. Do you still think there is a difference outside that category?


  477. sdaedalus, there’s a difference in between integrating foreigners as such in your society and stealing their women and having them have your children. Take the Romans. They stole the Sabin women, they didn’t bring some Sabins to live with them in peace and harmony. lol


  478. RV,

    I wonder if Roman men were this pathetic when their culture and empire were imploding.

    No. There were numerous reasons for the implosion, but this (large scale emasculation) was not one of them.


  479. I wonder if Roman men were this pathetic when their culture and empire were imploding.

    Good Lord, RV. You are quite simply, fucking brilliant. You are like a woman from long times ago. There was a time when women made high demands of men, but those days are over. Wish there were women who acted like this, but sadly, nope.

    As for Rome, yes, in the end Rome was full of bachelors. They did not want to marry, and so the Roman government instituted a bachelor tax as an incentive to marry. I don’t have all the facts, forgive me. But I guess it didn’t work, right? Basically, the men of ancient Rome said “fuck it”. I think we can infer that where men say “fuck it”, this means that the women are not worth the fight. I don’t want to assign blame, but I don’t know why else men would simply give up.

    This appears to be what is happening first in Scandinavia, and next throughout Europe. I guess Dave we know what to expect in Australia, Canada and the USA. I can’t see Australian men turning into pussies, though.


  480. Morsellaux, it was a rhetorical question that I had. And they had the same problems we have now, which is sort of ironic. I do think they weren’t as manly as they were at first though. Men are moved by the belief that their people and culture are the best.


  481. @RV

    there’s a difference in between integrating foreigners as such in your society and stealing their women and having them have your children

    I agree. But the new genetic admixture will change the nature of the society, over time, so for those who oppose immigration on the ground that it pollutes the gene pool, this form of integration would be just as bad as immigration.

    [Editor: Not if all the admixed fucking takes place in the overrun lands, far away from national boundaries.]

    Genetic pollution isn’t the primary reason people oppose immigration though, nowadays at least.

    Have you a link to the studies on average female intelligence being lower? I would be interested to have a look at them.

    ["The undeniable, easily measurable fact remains that, by the time both sexes reach 21, men, on average, score five IQ points higher than women."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1274952/Men-ARE-brainy-women-says-scientist-Professor-Richard-Lynn.html .]


  482. Tim, the problem is that we act in the ways men permit us. We are creatures on which social shaming works greatly and have a stronger herd mentality. But again, men think its sexist if they expect squat from us. And I do make high demands of men. If I’m to marry someone and be a submissive good wife and give a man a family, I want him to have his act together.

    Related to Scandinavia, don’t worry, the women will just have children with the immigrants if their men gave up. About bachelor taxes, we had those in my country too during communism. And contraception and abortion were banned. It’s the most idiotic thing ever to deal with bad birth rates like this though – low birth rates are a symptom of social problems. In my country it was food rationing to the point where you had ten eggs and a pound of meat a month to eat, no heating in the winter and so on. In the West, it’s gender relations being screwed and anti-family policies.

    sdaedalus, I was referring to the manliness of a society, not about how stable it will be over time. Obviously, the nature of a society would change if the admixture would be considerable, but that doesn’t have much to do with manliness. I have a funny anecdote though about German men. I met a man from Germany who is African Muslim and he is fond of German women and a German man told him that he apologizes for this, but he hates that dark men have sex with German women. I couldn’t believe it – I would have laughed at how pathetic this variety of men are, if it wouldn’t be so sad. So let me get this straight, he moved to your country and is boning your women and you apologize for being pissed off about it? NICE! How the heck can anyone respect this type of men is beyond me. It’s like I told Polymath that Sweden has no men, it has only women, but with different configurations in the genital area.


  483. sdaedalus, I read a study related to it, but it was a while back. Here’s how the situation looks though:
    [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4ify7vDXrDs/S976KeQBZPI/AAAAAAAAFts/VhFJbXouRP0/s640/male_female_bell_curve_.png[/img]


  484. Would someone please marry this person:

    http://projecthusband2011.blogspot.com/


  485. RV says, “Nicole, betas are willing to invest in women who are less socially valuable.”

    No, they are not. Look around. When they do, they don’t do so willingly.

    “You have to MAKE UP for that though.”

    How can an ugly girl make up for not being selected, or being selected only as a pump and dump or obvious last resort.

    Just what does a woman owe a man who is not interested in her, or not interested enough to invest in the relationship?

    I don’t know about you, but if a guy isn’t interested in me, I don’t feel it’s my job to do anything but stay out of his way.

    “This is the real problem that you, Western women have. You have high expectations and you refuse to do anything to offset the handicaps you have.”

    How does one offset the “handicap” of being the wrong race? Having the wrong figure despite a sub 21 BMI? Most girls between 15 and 23 are being devalued based on things that aren’t handicaps, just deviations from the Lara Croft ideal.

    “Any woman that isn’t morbidly obese and didn’t wait until she is 45 to want to marry, could do it to the average man fairly easily if she had some common sense and personality and didn’t shoot out of her league.”

    The average man was no longer interested in the average woman in the 80’s. Now there aren’t many average women left who aren’t fatter than they should be in their teens and 20’s.

    This stuff didn’t happen overnight. First it was shoulder pads, and then it was state sponsored veganism, and now it’s fat acceptance.

    “If you’re a 2, you won’t marry that professional statistician who graduated from a good school and is making 6 digits an year(ha :P), you will marry a factory worker or a man with an equivalent position, even if you did things that partially offset your looks.”

    I wish this was true, but I see 2’s with professional statisticians all the time, and 7+’s with factory workers or unemployed jerks who treat them like crap.

    If your pics are really of you, you look disturbingly similar to my construction worker ex’s boyfriend’s baby mama.

    My current boyfriend is yet another engineer. (It’s my curse.)

    Money isn’t the same kind of currency as looks.

    “And by the way, being fat shows some things that would make me not want to marry a woman if I was a man. I’d want my wife to be a good cook and know which food is healthy and which food isn’t. Fat women are usually horrible at that.”

    Who cares about the fat? I’m talking about the not trendy. Some fat women may be included in that, but only up to the point that the fat becomes a real looks issue.

    “You also seem to live in an insane world where men CHOOSE. Maybe it’s an alternate reality there, but everywhere where I’ve been around Europe, we choose and men chase.”

    No, *you* choose, and men chase. Men don’t chase women they view as less valuable.

    I have never been chased. I’ve been approached, decided if they were offering something I wanted, and then responded positively or negatively. The relationships all went along pretty much like that. I was with them until they decided they didn’t want to be with me anymore, and that was that.

    I am sure that I am not alone. This is how most relationships I’ve ever heard of go. Only hot young blondes and sometimes rich girls get chased.

    What’s weird about that is that we ugly girls will often have a lot of guys who want to shag us, but are unwilling to do anything constructive towards that goal. It’s like they’re waiting for us to become desperate or something, and only go as far as repeated offers of nothing but dick.

    I know a stunning Moroccan girl who one of her wannabe sport shaggers I had the displeasure of discussing their thought process with. He recognized that she is gorgeous, and knows that she is intelligent and somewhat traditionally oriented…enough to make a good mom, but not orthodox. That just didn’t translate to wanting to consider putting a ring on it or even take her out for an actual date.

    He wondered why she said no. I tried to explain it to him. He was treating her like she was beneath him, and she was rightfully not interested.

    So for you and women of your looks profile, men may be willing to at least offer the world at the beginning, with the rest of us, at best men will offer the world after they’ve kicked us out and failed to do better. Usually, they don’t offer anything but a shag or a series of shags.

    What *guys* do for you, maybe *one guy* we encounter in our whole lives will do for us.

    “This is fairly evident in the fact that less women die without having children than men die without having children.”

    When only alphas bother, only alphas breed.

    “Anyway, I’m not really the amazon woman. Those are the women men love to shag. Most of the men I know, and the quality ones, don’t want to marry those women.”

    That’s what they tell you…

    “Oh, and my ideals of beauty come from before WW2 and Audrey Hepburn is one of the few post WW2 people I actually like looks and style wise.”

    So why the spray tan and Jersey Shore makeup style?

    “And single mothers do get things. Didn’t you know tha tthere are TONS of governmental programs for them?”

    Yeah, $400 a month. I had some acquaintances on welfare in the U.S. They don’t get enough to live but one tick above homeless.

    Some who were from good families but went astray and got kicked out, get help from charities so that they can continue their education and get out of destitution, but this is not the kind of life any girl would choose for herself if she felt she had better options.

    “It’s like a marriage to a man who isn’t rich, without any demands from the other side. But again, we might want a palace or something.”

    Not living in a shack of an “apartment” where the landlord can’t be arsed to fix your locks from the door that has been kicked in by crack heads might be nice.

    I’m not sure if you’re aware of what’s at stake for non hot young women.

    I was one, oh so long ago. Nothing particularly wrong with me at the time except being the wrong color and not shagging the socially convenient guys. I got mercilessly picked on about my looks and about having such a horrible attitude as to not want to be the cumrag of the ringleader.

    Then fiance #1 flaked, fiance #2 cheated, and husband #1 was sure he could do better. I keep wishing him the best, and hoping that will happen.


  486. @RV

    Thanks for the link.


  487. on October 16, 2010 at 8:39 pm David Collard

    I just don’t understand most other men. I used to think that I had the problem. But I have slowly come to realise that there is nothing wrong with me. I am just an unusual kind of alpha.

    I was born with “chauvinist” attitudes to women. I remember being “sexist” even as a very young boy.

    I did grow up in a masculine country, at a more masculine time, but I have seen even Australian men start to become feminised. But it is still a good country for men.

    I expect – and mostly get – a lot from my wife. What has surprised me is how much courage it takes, and endurance. Women will “shit test” constantly. It is no wonder so many men give up, especially if there is a plausible fear that they could be divorced and suffer from the legal system. Despite the best efforts of our local feminists, the Australian system is fairer to fathers than it seems to be in America.

    As for intelligence, I would not put too much reliance on Richard Lynn’s findings alone. But I think it is likely that the average man has a bit more pure intelligence (“g”) than the average woman. Also, there is a wider distribution of intelligence in men. So, more very bright men. In my own field – biology – pure IQ is not so important, and there are plenty of competent women. But even in biology, the very best are still men. I think the male personality is more curious, innovative and inclined to “brilliance”. Men are more focussed too. We think colder (more systematically) than women (who tend to want to empathise).

    After many years, I am sort of in an alpha male position at home and at work. That makes life easier, but I have always had alpha attitudes. All the “wrong” attitudes from a PC point of view.


  488. on October 16, 2010 at 8:43 pm David Collard

    Note carefully that men only exceed women in intelligence as adults. Men mature intellectually more slowly than women. This may be why girls do better than boys in high school, but not as adults in the real world.


  489. @David,

    I agree with the slower maturation process for men. Also, I’ve observed a female inability to comprehend cause and effect; in other words, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Women think everything is free, and that they are entitled to it. Not all- just most. Entitled to a wonderful career, family and children. And make all the decisions in the family. In other words, be in total control – as a birthright and entitlement. *Note I did not say all -just most.* This is not a sign of intelligence.

    My friend works in an isolated region of northern canada for 12 months straight, living in a camp. He then takes two months off, and goes back to work after. He is a general foreman and makes a lot of money. But he knows he must sacrifice his social life. In other words, he has considered the cost of his choices, and knows he must live with them. He knows he is not entitled to anything. Can you imagine a man wailing that he doesn’t “have it all?” What would you think of this man?

    So yes, women may score high marks in art class in high school and college, but men overtake in the adult arena, generally.


  490. RV, my time allows only a drive-by extra-concise, snipes…

    The expanded Roman bachelorate was because men did not care, not because of women empowerment akin to feminism.
    Panis et circenses, the Roman equivalent of the tube was one of the substantial factors. Another was the changing demographics of Roman empire, decreasing the overall level of trust–trust entropy as it were. Third, anything goes sexual mores including rampant homosexuality–young boys did not get pregnant.

    One may form a conclusion that the modern times’ inroads of feminism were facilitated because men did not care, but that would be a gross simplification.


  491. RV, and what is it with your frequent icon changes? Revelations by a mosaic? :-)


  492. on October 16, 2010 at 9:32 pm Gunslingergregi

    ”””’rebelliousvanilla
    David, men of today do have something missing and what thye miss is this: BALLS! ”””’

    You are wrong.

    It is the woman of the west that are lacking in being able to stand with their men.

    ”””'(I don’t know how it doesn’t infuriate their fathers because if it happened to my kid, I’d go to school with a baseball bat and bash in the faces of the kids who bully my kids and I’m not even a man) ”””’

    I could say I would go up against insane odds to save my woman and not be afraid to die in process and that would be true.

    ””””’rebelliousvanilla
    David, men of today do have something missing and what thye miss is this: BALLS! I told Polymath in private that I find most men today repugnant and completely disgusting from an instinctual point of view and the whiter they are, the more pathetic they are in this regard.
    ””””””’

    There is a problem but is not lack of balls. White men could kill every man woman and child who is not white. Just the problem is we like it to be legal.
    Most men have balls but there is a diference between dieing for a reason and having your heart and balls ripped out by a woman in divorce. How is a man supposed to have balls in that situation?
    When we are willing to give our lives spur of the moment it is conscious or needed instant reaction to a stimuli. The problem with just social rot from within is that a man doesn’t know who to fight.
    We killed the shit out of iraq. We stopped fighting wherever we wanted to. We are in charge at moment. Our woman are fucking killing us.


  493. Nicole

    I forgot to mention that my wife has thyroid problems. She is 49. Thyroid issues are one of those rare conditions that affects women more than men.

    Gunslingergregi

    I think you capture a point I try to make sometimes. Men are good at spur-of-the-moment bravery, at fighting a clear enemy. But they are bad at coping with the endless shit that a wife and a job entail. It grinds a man down.

    Also, men have trouble seeing women as the enemy. That is partly why feminists have been so successful. Few men want to be seen to be mean to the girls. Particularly politicians. And, as Public Choice Theory would predict, a small group of committed people (radical feminists) can effect a political change that benefits them, but not the wider society. Pressure group politics.

    Somebody once said that men are meant to die young and brave, not old and hen-pecked. Men aren’t good at enduring constant humiliation, which is what the West dishes out to a lot of men these days.


  494. on October 16, 2010 at 10:22 pm Gunslingergregi

    Plus you know a bitch has to want to be saved to.

    This ain’t white night vill.

    I’ll be captain save a ho if she is in trouble.

    I wasn’t put on the earth to kill some black dudes for gangbanging a white chick.

    The bitch likes it.

    Not the black dudes fault.

    Not my job to step in if she makes a personal life choice to be like that.

    She is free to do that in my book.

    What would you have me do in that situation vanilla?

    I mean the chicks ain’t getting raped just fucked.


  495. not drawing any conclusions here, but it’s hilarious that you guys aren’t even considering the possibility that rv is lying about being a virgin.

    first there’s the a priori principle that women are pretty damn good at lying in the first place. then, on top of that, rv is not only a particularly clever woman, but also an unabashed hustler who openly proclaims her hustler-ness right here on this board (i.e., “i’m going to support feminism if it benefits me, and i’m going to oppose feminism if that benefits me”)

    the fact that you guys aren’t putting two and two together and realizing that her attitude toward telling the truth is almost certainly the exact same (“i’m going to tell the truth if it benefits me, and i’m going to lie if that benefits me”) leaves me speechless.

    i’m not saying that we have to draw any conclusions here one way or the other. but one conclusion that i considered a draw is that you guys are a bunch of suckers who will be easy marks for any woman who combines a minimum of girl game with a close reading of what you guys prefer in a woman.
    that’s all. goodnight


  496. on October 16, 2010 at 10:33 pm Gunslingergregi

    ””””’I’d be better off to have babies with a fresh of the boat Somali Muslim ”””

    Same conclusion I came to with asian woman.

    ”””’ But again, men think its sexist if they expect squat from us. And I do make high demands of men. If I’m to marry someone and be a submissive good wife and give a man a family, I want him to have his act together.”””””’

    Except I get this and a whole lot more.

    I would like to see you use your brain more and come up with ways you could be more of an asset to a man than just giving him a family and being submissive.

    I am pretty sure if you tried real hard you could come up with a way that you could do better than just another western woman being a weight around another mans neck.


  497. @manyacapo,

    Got it covered. She’s from Romania, which I know a little about. Let’s just say fucked up. Watch your back. Take what you can get and trust no one. That’s why she is the way she is. That’s the way you have to be in eastern europe. Remember, the former president of the Ukraine was poisoned and his face turned to elephant man because his enemies didn’t like him. Trust me. I don’t know her personally, but if you’re from eastern europe, you’ve got no choice but to rely on your own wits. It’s be the fucker or the fuckee -you decide. Average salary – $600/month. A person has to do what they must to survive. Don’t make the mistake and think she’s an american entitlement princess.


  498. manyacapo,

    RV admitted further up on this thread that she is “not virgin”. She hasn’t said anything here that contradicts what I know about her, which is extensive. When she talks about supporting feminism depending on whether it is in her interests, she means she will vote selfishly, not that her belief in the falsity of the underlying premises of feminism will change.


  499. There’s a lot of talk about IQ. So what, if we are going to talk about GAME….EQ is what you all need to be discussing. HURRY—google it!!!


  500. I don’t care if rv is telling the truth in every detail or not. She is not my problem. She might be a Nigerian camel-herder, for all I know. But I tend to take people as they present themselves.

    Besides, if someone tells the truth, does it necessarily matter why?

    I think Schopenhauer wrote that deception is natural to women. But even women sometimes tell the truth. And liars tend to reveal themselves over time by being inconsistent in their stories.


  501. @polymath

    When she talks about supporting feminism depending on whether it is in her interests, she means she will vote selfishly, not that her belief in the falsity of the underlying premises of feminism will change

    yeah well, actions speak louder than words, don’t they?

    to me, that’s even worse than a woman who genuinely believes in the tenets of feminism; many such women are shown the light, so to speak, over time.

    every word of this speaks to me as out-right admission that this woman will have no loyalty at all save to herself, and will turn tail and leave you holding the bag at the slightest opportunity just as she’d do with an ideology.
    sure, many women are like that anyway, but any man who’d commit to a woman who up and advertises the fact that she’s pure mercenary is an idiot, hot or not.

    basically i’m sick of the echo chamber of “wow wow you get it!” from these fagboys in here, to a woman who is openly admitting that she may well “get it” and still go exactly the other way.


  502. David, thyroid problems aren’t so rare anymore. They’re just not usually addressed until someone is having more serious problems than low energy and rapid weight gain.

    About 10% of women over 30 have Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. I can’t help thinking that since the problem is the immune system attacking the thyroid gland, some of this is exascerbated by excessive carbohydrates.

    My thyroid normalized when I stopped eating fake food and so many sugars/grains. I also started eating more oily fish. I’m not sure which exactly did the trick, but I’m glad I caught it before things went too far.


  503. what, you mean Explorer Quotient? Engager Quotient?
    You can’t mean emo quotient!? That is probably at the root of men turning to emasculated mush as the other quotients are pushed aside, by the later.


  504. Morsellaux,

    Yes emo quotient. We all have emotional intelligence. Some more than others. It’s vital to engaging, connecting…..essentially what is involved in GAMING. Someone with good intrapersonal, interpersonal, stress management and strong adaptability skills can truly be an alpha. Assuming someone took an EQ test and scored really high, depending on what scale, generally it’s positive, but it can also work against them. It’s really about how, when and to whom it is applied. VERY interesting.


  505. manyacapo,

    There is a difference between selfishness and dishonesty. I would not blame someone for casting a vote in their best interests that was worse for others, even if in my opinion it was worse for society (as I defined it) as a whole, and if you think everyone ought to always vote for what is in the best interest of society as a whole (if such a thing is even definable) you do not understand how elections work. People vote their interests and the choice which gets the most votes wins.

    Now if RV were planning not merely to “support feminism” by voting selfishly and joining with others who share an interest in the success of feminism, but to speak out in favor of her preferred position by making statements she believed to be actually false, in order to mislead and sway other voters, that would be dishonesty and not merely selfishness, and I would be angry with her.

    The reason her selfish position strikes you as immoral is that you feel she ought to have a loyalty to “society” defined in such a way as to be collectively (that is, in some not-particularly-well-defined aggregated way) harmed by feminism. But you had better be specific about which society you are assuming she ought to be loyal to. Most of us feel loyalty to a group that is larger than our immediate family and smaller than the entire human species; you need to make it clear which group in this range you are assuming she ought to feel loyalty to.


  506. @Everyone,

    Eastern Europeans are an interesting lot.

    On the one hand, you get more vitriol and opinion than anywhere else in the world – and I’ve sat with South Koreans debating the ills of the North and the wheres and whys of national division. You want opinions? Try sitting in on those conversations. Speak up and get smacked down by someone, sooner or later. But Eastern Europeans all seem to be convinced of one thing or another – absolutely convinced. Hungarians will go on about this or that (I spent lots of time with Hungarian Jews / Catholics; don’t ask), Serbians are sullen these days but you’ll find some unrepentant types with delusions of grandeur of all kinds; and Croats are often entirely unreformed Chetniks with dreams of Nazi pasts. Not all, but there are stereotypes.

    Romanians I’ve met are among the most suspicious and canny people anywhere. They’re always on the lookout for someone trying to cheat them; they trust as little as possible; and this is a characteristic that seems to go back a ways.
    I remember reading travelers’ accounts of time spent in the Balkans from 100-300 years ago (I have a collection of weird books, again don’t ask), and there were frequent mentions of the “Romanian Way” of seeing things: as if the whole world were out to get you. In a real sense, of course, in Romania, this was actually true. So it comes from a place of logic.

    On the other hand, if you’re say, Swedish, well, aside from some interference from the Russians and threats from the Nazis, well, the last time there was trouble was in the 7th-10th centuries, and, um, well, let’s just say the Swedes were the cause of other peoples’ troubles. Or *were* other peoples’ troubles.

    So– RV may be a canny one, but her entire country seems to produce canny, clever people who have an ear in one direction, another in another direction, and an eye over the shoulder – just to be sure.

    I’ve also known Romanians to marry well and hire excellent divorce lawyers. A canny bunch. Not to be easily insulted or trifled with.

    Be warned.


  507. RV hasn’t been given any reason to be loyal to “society” of any kind.

    Like all people, she’s loyal to herself first. This is understandable.

    It’s like asking white men to stick loyally by white women. If white women become unfeminine, mercilessly ball-breaking hags and harridans and cheap whores – well, off with ye.

    Loyalties go so far. And you have to be given good reason to display these loyalties.

    RV is just being entirely logical. As much as anyone might dislike it, you can’t fault her for that.


  508. Also, the one time I had a good chance to debate anything with a Romanian, I was treated to the spectacle of Romanian Genius at work.

    You know, under Ceaucescu, Romania produced more certified Geniuses than anywhere in the world. Sure.

    And the Consul then went on to explain the virtues of Europeans sticking together – you know, against the non-Europeans. And how Romania was really part of Western Europe, the corner of the West that the West forgot.

    Well, … he was drunk, seemed to be the most racist, ethnocentric and Western-Europe-Ophillic man I’ve ever met, and had illusions that Romania was France East and the long lost brother of the French, …

    But he did make some good points.

    Romanians are culturally Western, but have for 1000 years been surrounded by Bulgars (the root of the Slavs, in some ways), not always friendly, Slavs of all kinds, Gypsies abandoned and left to their own devices, or the devices of Romanians when the Romanians aren’t looking, Magyars and horsemen and the happy happy Russians, and the inestimable joys of the Turks at the gates. Then imagine being at the butt-end of Europe, the part of Europe that Europe has tried its very best to forget —

    And then imagine thinking that, in some small way, you’re a part of the great European Experience when the rest of Europe looks at you quizically when you call yourself European (“Oh? Are you guys still there?”), …

    And you might have some interesting attitudes to share with the rest of the White world, too.

    Like:

    Thanks a lot, assholes, just let us rot over here. Abandon us, surrounded by “Friends”. Every time we do anything worthy of note, you ignore it. Every time we defend Europe for you, you ignore it and then call us violent thugs. Thanks a whole helluva lot.

    A lonely outpost of Latin culture in a sea of nasty.

    I mean, in a real sense – talk about being cornered. You’re not going to get cultural expansion or national growth. The very best you can hope for is survival. If you’re clever.

    Anyway, as the Romanian consul pointed out, the last 1500 years haven’t been all that wasted in Romania.

    The French in the room, … were, shall we say, pompously disdainful.

    Which is to say that they were French.

    So I understand the extremes of opinion that Romanians can get to. I still have bad impressions of Balkan types as a rule – organized crime, rackets, mundane thievery and corruption, manipulation, the general post-Communist attitude from China to Russia to Serbia that when it comes to cheating the state/non-family/customers, anything goes, etc. I guess I wasn’t used to the kind of coldly self-interested rational behavior I witnessed from Eastern Europeans generally. The feel-good niceness of the West was thoroughly absent. Geez, even Korea had more of this – and that’s saying a lot.

    A more coldly calculating and rational lot it can be hard to find.

    So maybe this is where RV’s calculated but precise insight comes from.


  509. what, EQ must be seen as a part of a package. If it becomes an end in itself, an overriding carrier wave, hilarity (or often not so much) ensues. It is a function that is essential for storing memory (but not only one). Women, unfortunately, use it as default, and can remember any minute misdeed you’ve committed 20 long years ago, while you’ve completely forgotten it.

    Emotional intelligence, with the intelligence meaning shifted towards the gathering information and analyzing it (e.g internalized CIA kinda paradigm), fine with me. :-)


  510. “The kind of guy who would marry Jenna Jameson (and who jenna would wanna marry too) is a ___________”

    … Pornstar. Next.


  511. From the pic, Owen’s a straight 5 who looks like she’s peaked already. (Add ten or twenty pounds to see the future.) No wonder the big leagues chewed her up and spit her out without really noticing. Well Karen, you had your shot. Try to be a better sport about it in the future and thanks for playing.


  512. Gorbachev spake:
    On the other hand, if you’re say, Swedish, well, aside from some interference from the Russians and threats from the Nazis, well, the last time there was trouble was in the 7th-10th centuries, and, um, well, let’s just say the Swedes were the cause of other peoples’ troubles. Or *were* other peoples’ troubles.

    So true. Also, what you said about Romania being the butt-end of Europe the rest of us Europeans would rather forget, there’s some truth to that as well. At best, especially us Northern Europeans are a bit confused as to what we should think of the Eastern European countries – war, powerty and organized crime are the first things that come to mind, however politically incorrect that is, what with the expanding EU and all. I’m from Finland, which is kind of the Northern European outcast. Our language is fundamentally different from those of both Western and (the) Eastern neighbour(s), our culture a weird mixture of brooding Slavic melancholy and heavy drinking, Scandinavian egalitarianism and liberalism in all things human, and the genuine crazy devil-may-care fenno-ugri spirit. That’s outcast material right there.
    Long story short, for a long time the Swedish were our problem, and due to that and other common history, our countries still have a sort of competetive relationship.(Russia, too, but living next to a volatile superpower never ceases to be a problem in one way or another, which Eastern Europeans likely can attest to, also.) These days, Finns semi-jokingly refer to Sweden as the land of homosexuals due to the mellowed and submissive mentality of these ex-vikings. Not to say feminism hasn’t taken any toll on the Finnish, but I think our stubborn, blunt, diamonds-in-rough, what-you-see-is-what-you-get male population is (while not perhaps the best material to easily become suave PUAs) somewhat harder to betatize than the average good-natured, easy-going and regrettably malleable Scandinavian man.
    I have to admit there are plenty of amazonesque (in character if not always in looks) Finnish women, though that’s partly because during many points in our history, both sexes needed to be strong simply for the sake of our survival as a nation, and this has left us with a we’re-in-this-together sort of mentality. IMHO it’s regrettable that feminism is actually eroding this sense of unity by needlessly fueling gender wars and encouraging women to act in ways that are extreme and potentially harmful for both the self and the society (take the Duke ppt). However, I don’t think Northern Europeans are quite as far along the road to implosion as many here seem to think. Our cultures have adapted to any number of changes before, some drastic, and will do so again, I hope.


  513. Aiku,
    Finish people are made fun of in Sweden, it was worse before, but you have always been there little unimportant brother in that region. There is a stereotype of them, being aggresive and drinkers and with an weird accent. If anyday russia would invade, dont expect sweden to help, as they didnt care when norway was invaded.
    For the way of living there, it is sad the men have become so female like, i always get chocked when im there and they do sth feminine, like sitting down on the floor to tie the shoes.. or ordering a pink cocktail.


  514. And to continue pre-assumption, Americans have by large the stupidest people in their country, it is probably easier to gather them around the flag for that.
    An american tourist prototype is a loud, egocentric, obese and asks very stupid questions.
    An american girl lived here in Budapest, while the tsunami happend got a call from her friend and asked if she where ok, and the list can go on.
    I could believe that all Americans are this stupid, i could listen to others telling me how stupid they are, or i could do the wisest and go a bit beyond the stereotype of a nation, and understand it.
    Never good with stereotypes. never, they will not take you beyond that and you will stuck in a warp, sending out false information about others without understanding.


  515. @Biktopia,

    It’s true, there are really slow, extremely dumb (white) Americans. Our education systems are often among the worst in the English-speaking world, and the difference between different parts of the country, even right next door, are often so extreme, you wonder how they’re connected.

    But not all Americans are stupid, and Americans are capable of some remarkable things when called to it.

    That said, I told a friend I was going to Canada in the summer. He said – if there’s good skiing, let me know. It was July. Canada’s summer is the same as the northern US. And Canada is right there – on our border. Forget Hungary.

    And just as a point of comparison, I know places in Europe that are the same. The difference there is that they have the same sense of superiority, half the time – but no actual reason to have that sense of superiority.


  516. on October 17, 2010 at 10:56 am Gunslingergregi

    http://www.whistlerblackcomb.com/todo/summer/glacier/index.htm

    http://www.forbes.com/2001/06/14/0614feat.html

    Most things in life no matter how far fetched sounding are in fact plausible.

    Just a matter of perspective and creating reality.

    he he he


  517. on October 17, 2010 at 11:00 am Gunslingergregi

    Do some research skiing is posible in canada in the summer.

    he he he


  518. on October 17, 2010 at 11:44 am Gunslingergregi

    I think people just don’t recognize what really is posible to do.

    That is the problem creativity stops at the theoretical instead of making your dreams reality.

    Or most people think their dreams are somehow diferent and yet are the same as average.

    ””””””’I’d also like to point out that in Sweden it doesn’t work that way. I’d like courts to enforce that each spouse should spend 50% of the family’s earnings and that the woman should work until she makes as much as her husband.”””””

    Why does the couple have to work at all?

    In reality they can make it so they aren’t slaves to a job for either of them.

    Noone has to give you a pension or a retirement you can make your own.

    Why is the choice always about whether the husband and wife works or just the husband how bout both get the opportunity to stop working whenever they feel like it. Or work if they feel like it because they don’t have to to live and eat.


  519. [...] – “The Duke Rejection List“, “Reader Mailbag: Poke Rape [...]


  520. on October 17, 2010 at 7:53 pm Gunslingergregi

    ”””””’on October 17, 2010 at 8:57 am bictopia
    And to continue pre-assumption, Americans have by large the stupidest people in their country, it is probably easier to gather them around the flag for that.
    ”””’

    So it is stupid to have patriatism?

    WOW that is amazing.

    So if nobody cared about the country that would make us all smart he he he

    WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH BITCHES.

    We happen to be smart enough to be creating the army of the future where none of our soldiers have to die in war and we can cleanly wipe out humanity without nukes.

    Don’t make the mistake of thinking just because some of our laws are completly fucked up doesn’t mean we are stupid.

    If they take the camera thing a step further and implement remote gun mounts along border not one fucking person will cross it alive without authorization. he he he


  521. on October 17, 2010 at 8:01 pm Gunslingergregi

    ”””The use of UAVs in US border security is also on the rise.”””

    Gee who said you could lock down the fucking border no prob with remote shit.

    Who said you could lock down iraq and afganistan remotly.

    ”””’Asian powers such as China and India, along with Japan and South Korea, which both have mature industrial and technological base, are systematically working to build up considerable UAV fleets.””’

    Who could have predicted that. lol


  522. UAVs totally change the game.

    I expect the US plans a massive fleet of them. Probably enough to project power to the tiniest corner of the globe.

    Scary shit.


  523. on October 17, 2010 at 8:06 pm Gunslingergregi

    http://www.the-infoshop.com/press/kt121855.shtml

    To reach 71 billion dollar industry.

    See youngsters this is what you should study in school to be on cutting edge and be in place to make the big bucks.


  524. rebelliousvanilla,

    I admire your honesty and insights. But Nicole (who I am very impressed with) is correct about one point that you fail to see:

    Not all women have the option of marrying a beta to raise the kid they from an alpha. There are a number of reasons for this.

    – Some women are too unattractive ever get married at all.

    – Some women have such high standards for a husband that they can not bring themselves to settle and so even if they get knocked up by an alpha they can’t find another guy to raise the kid.

    – Some women do not have the social skills or level of dishonesty needed to manipulate the beta.

    Also, you are missing the welfare state. Why get married to the beta when you can basically cuckold all the net taxpayers? This is what Sweden is all about and our welfare state does this to a lesser extent: Get guys who have no kids (or kids by their wife) to also support lots of kids who are not theirs.


  525. on October 17, 2010 at 8:21 pm Gunslingergregi

    Just overlay halo on top of the uav screen and wala.

    Pixilate the real world.

    A game anyone can play right out of the box.

    There is the idea.


  526. on October 17, 2010 at 8:51 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea except nicole was married twice. She just didn’t get to marry a white dude like she wanted.

    Although rum was stepping up and she didn’t jump on it.

    I don’t get that one.

    But hey we all fuck ourselves sometimes.


  527. manyacapo,

    I think rebelliousvanilla is actually quite naive. For example her views on the options of women with lower levels of attractiveness are thoroughly naive.

    However, I think she’s being candid too. She’s much more willing to look at ugly truths and to discuss these truths than the average woman. She’s an outlier, and not just in looks.

    rebelliousvanilla,

    I think you are making a serious mistake by having a series of boyfriends. Your boyfriend who has groupies is very unlikely to marry you. I suspect you are playing above your league and that if you really want to get married you’d better shift your focus toward different kinds of guys. You should hang out near hospitals and meet guys who are going thru residency for a high earning specialty.


  528. @ Randall Parker and RV,

    RV should not hunt for doctors.

    They suck as husbands.


  529. @Tim

    I agree with the slower maturation process for men. Also, I’ve observed a female inability to comprehend cause and effect; in other words, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Women think everything is free, and that they are entitled to it. Not all- just most. Entitled to a wonderful career, family and children. And make all the decisions in the family. In other words, be in total control – as a birthright and entitlement. *Note I did not say all -just most.* This is not a sign of intelligence.

    When you point these things out to women, they dislike it.

    Women to feel like they’re owed this. Men don’t usually feel they’re owed it: What pisses them off is when they do what’s publicly expected of them, and they’re denied it.

    Women generally think things are free, it’s true.

    Worthless speculation, but it occurs to me:

    Gathering food from available plant supplies and taking what the men bring in and processing it might be the equivalent of getting it for free.

    Men going out in groups, finding animals, somehow tricking them into falling into traps or chasing after it or fighting it – and then killing it – is a lot of fucking work.

    You need some mental agility, too.

    No way that dude thinks he’s owed anything. If anythingm he’s going to throw a party and say, hey, folks, look how cool I am, and let’s save the meaty parts for the Luck Gods, because I just got it.

    On the other hand, the women would be – nice, now fork over the meat.

    Not clear if this was the actual division of labor, but if it was, then we might have an explanation why women think everything is free.

    Look at the public sector.

    Women don’t realize that every job paid for out of taxes – in any way – is a massive drain on an economy. It has to add much more than its immediate remunerative value.

    For example, air traffic controllers more or less do that.

    Cops – for sure.

    Doctors and nurses – yuppers.

    School teachers – possibly. If they (and the students) perform. Only if. Otherwise, awfully expensive babysitters.

    Public functionaries – only inasmuch as their bureaucracies actually ADD value to an economy, and not just drag it down.

    Lots of women think their public-sector jobs are the equivalent of private sector jobs for creating wealth.

    They don’t realize that this isn’t the case.

    The left is like that.

    I want to shake some lefties up some of the time: Look, People, WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU GET THE MONEY FROM?

    WHA WHA WHA WHA WHINE WHINE GIMME GIMME

    Seriously, that entitlement thing is very female. It’s why men who have it are derided and women are given a pass.


  530. Re:Docs
    Besides, hot nurses are always throwing themselves at them.


  531. rebelliousvanilla,

    You are missing a number of points about the options of less attractive women. First off the general points:

    – Divorce law works in favor of women who are already married. But it works against single women. When divorce law changed to allow women to screw men in divorce court a couple of generations of women made out like bandits. But the word got out and a lot of guys responded by raising the bar on what they want in a wife. The downsides and risks went up and so the upsides needed to be larger. Therefore fewer women can qualify to make the hurdles for marriageable material.

    – Higher educational requirements for decent jobs delays the point when men become suitable marriage material and as a result women have more time to play the field before they see male peers who are suitable marriage partners.

    – Higher education levels for women (in part a result of the feminization of academia and in part due to growth in government and other jobs suited for women) changes the relative status of men and women in ways that make marriage less appealing for both men and women. The natural dominance relationship can’t be achieved.

    – Lots of slut girls have become conditioned into wanting only alphas. So most of these women aren’t even in the running for betas to try to marry.

    – The mass media shows ideal people (highly attractive and smart) in unrealistic relationships (very successful attractive alpha guys who are also great fathers and husbands). Therefore the mass media raises female expectations and makes them impractical.

    – The great temptation for young women (especially since sexual shaming has been shamed out of existence by feminists) is to give in to the moment and go to bed with the alpha. The eventual potential husband lies far into the future in the minds of these women at clubs and at frat parties. Look at yourself. You aren’t playing hard to get. So what are the odds less attractive women will find it within them to do what you think they should do? Slim to nil.

    – For black women the situation is especially bleak with the black male labor market participation rate on the decline since 1970 and a large fraction of young black men removed from the market by sitting in jail cells.

    While parts of your analysis are correct there are other things going on here that you haven’t modeled.


  532. Nicole,

    Vitamin D deficiency appears to increase the odds of auto-immune diseases. Since your skin is darker you are at greater risk of vitamin D deficiency. Check out some of my vitamin D posts.


  533. Gorb, yea, back in the old country, we had the following scale: pig, doctor, veterinarian, nurse.


  534. Randall Parker,

    Everything you said about RV is wrong, as you would realize if you had read all her posts, which reveal that she has had a steady boyfriend for years whose “groupies” are wannabes he is not interested in, and she plays in the top league; and her view is that women can improve the quality of the men willing to commit to them a lot by not being sluts or acting entitled, which is a statement about their relative not absolute prospects and so applies to all levels of attractiveness.


  535. Polymath,

    Church girl and I expressed feelings for one another tonight. Instead of leading to the make out session I had hoped for, it led to a very intense conversation about marriage, kids, obligations to family…

    I don’t know how I feel about things now. She wants to continue spending time together, and she all but said that she expects me not to act on my feelings, at least not right now. While I’m disappointed that she didn’t want to jump right in on one level, her thoughtfulness in discussing such a sensitive subject, and her sincere concerns for me and my children, really make me wonder if we are not in actual love with each other.

    I told her I almost kissed her yesterday (which is true), and she did not say that I shouldn’t have. But she later suggested that she is comfortable having feelings for me and okay spending time together so long as I don’t act on them. Is this girl seriously playing me hard, or is she trying to legitimately figure this out too?


  536. @Sidewinder,

    Assumption:

    Playing you. Even if she’s not aware of it.

    Sacrifice *nothing* for this woman.

    She’s optioning and considering. Her math won’t be the same as yours.

    Regardless of her decision, don’t think your model of your own reasoning will apply to her.

    Don’t even consider sacrificing *anything*. Not *one thing*.


  537. Having just wrote that last post, I realize I probably should have just kissed her tonight. It would have sent the message in a much less tortured way, and I wouldn’t have to guess what her response would have been hypothetically. She may have slapped me, but then I’d know that she was being serious and not possibly just saying what she thought i wanted to hear.


  538. Gorb, it shocked me how in depth she had thought some of this out. She basically said that she could not live with herself if she felt that she ended up causing harm to my kids. She hasn’t asked me to sacrifice anything. So far, she has done pretty much eerything that I asked, and hasn’t required anything from me. I actually hate how I make her sneak around and coordinate get togethers. You could be right, but I think she’s a good person and I hate that I am asking her to do these things. But I can’t stop at this point. 4 days is the longest i’ve gone without speaking with her the past month, and i felt lke I was physically dying by the fourth day. Despite this faggy neediness, I handle myself pretty well around her. Today I was pretty poor though. I wasn’t prepared for such an intense conversation.


  539. @Sidewinder,

    Then jump and kiss the woman. Understand that it’s going to get hot and hard very fast.

    But you’re courting multiple disaster.

    You’re not fucking around properly.

    Either own this situation and chock it up to human experience and dive in and GET OUT properly – or shut it down.

    You clearly can’t do this like a man, which means both the approaching and engaging Church Girl, and you’re deeply conflicted.

    What worried me isn’t your cheating on your wife. Your internal conflict is a fucking disaster.

    if you’re going to cheat, you need to do it properly. You can’t. You need to give your wife yourself as you’re giving it to someone else. This is hard to do, it’s difficult to divide yourself, unless you approach it with a clear head and you understand your role for both of them.

    You’re all gushy and mushy and in chemical heat. You’re a walking disaster waiting to happen. You cheat in this state, and your entire situation is going to explode.

    Either admit it to yourself, that you’re going to fuck this woman for all that life is worth, and then leave it as an affair that ends – or get the hell away from her.

    Unless you want Divorce 2.0 to smash your beleaguered brains into a barely identifiable pulp.

    I’m not joking here.

    Man the fuck up or stop playing games. Sitting on your fence like this is going to start carving holes into your balls.


  540. @Sidewinder,

    I’m certain you’re going to detonate this situation like a nuclear bomb dangling on a string held by a mad scientist. Dude.

    You aren’t in the right frame to fuck around on your wife.

    Really.

    You’re going to dis both women, screw yourself up and completely destroy any self-respect you have for yourself or respect that either woman has for you.

    Believe it.

    Seriously, you need some balls. Either way, you need to take a good long look at your situation.

    It’s entirely Beta. Cheating-while-Beta = Divorce.


  541. Randall Parker,

    After I posted my reply to your earlier post I saw your later one. None of your points in answer to RV contradict her:

    a lot of guys responded by raising the bar on what they want in a wife. The downsides and risks went up and so the upsides needed to be larger. Therefore fewer women can qualify to make the hurdles for marriageable material.

    RV’s point is that it is a great deal easier to make those hurdles for women who don’t screw around and who don’t act entitled and who behave like a desirable wife. These women will do as well or better than their “attractiveness rank” in terms of long-term commitment.

    Higher educational requirements for decent jobs delays the point when men become suitable marriage material and as a result women have more time to play the field before they see male peers who are suitable marriage partners.

    First of all having more time to play the field doesn’t mean they have to; secondly, who says young women can’t look for somewhat older men? :P

    Higher education levels for women … changes the relative status of men and women in ways that make marriage less appealing for both men and women. The natural dominance relationship can’t be achieved.

    Male status depends on other things besides education (age, achievement, game, etc.), and again a woman who has the attitude RV recommends need not be prevented from having the proper relationship to a husband by having had more years of school than he did.

    Lots of slut girls have become conditioned into wanting only alphas. So most of these women aren’t even in the running for betas to try to marry.

    How does this contradict the recommendation not to be a slut? And it is well known that sluts “settle” for men they want less than they want the ones who will shag them but not commit to them.

    The mass media shows ideal people (highly attractive and smart) in unrealistic relationships (very successful attractive alpha guys who are also great fathers and husbands). Therefore the mass media raises female expectations and makes them impractical.

    Are you suggesting that there is a negative correlation between being successful, attractive, and alpha and being a great father and husband? I hope not. But why is it unrealistic that highly attractive and smart people should be able to snag highly attractive and smart partners? Why should a woman not as attractive as a TV wife expect to get someone as attractive as a TV husband?

    The great temptation for young women (especially since sexual shaming has been shamed out of existence by feminists) is to give in to the moment and go to bed with the alpha. The eventual potential husband lies far into the future in the minds of these women at clubs and at frat parties. Look at yourself. You aren’t playing hard to get. So what are the odds less attractive women will find it within them to do what you think they should do? Slim to nil.

    All you are saying is that RV’s recommendation is not easy for many women to follow, but it’s still not unrealistic: many women are actually capable of doing something that is not easy, do avoid slutting it up, and end up with a better mate as a result, so “Slim to nil” is a ridiculous copout. And you have no basis for asserting that RV does not follow her own advice.


  542. Guns, I would prefer a Black and/or Native American guy, but I didn’t encounter any who were in it for the long term. At the time I lived in the U.S. I had a pretty active inner bitch, but not on the level most American women do, because I didn’t feel entitled to being loved. I just wouldn’t take being treated like crap. If someone was going to be there, they had to be on the level, and if not, they needed to be free to find someone else.

    It just so happened that the one man I encountered who would actually be a man for me was a Polish Israeli. That didn’t work out only because of sexual issues. Otherwise, the rest of the men in the world could fall off the face of the earth, romantically, for all I cared.

    I don’t really care what color a guy is, so long as he really loves me. For that, he has to be his own man, because nowadays in the U.S. and here in Israel too, there are no social benefits to being attached to a Black woman, unless you’re running for president.

    I don’t advise Black women to date out unless they are specifically shopping for independent thinkers. The only good reason one would have for doing this is being an independent thinker herself for whom the avoidance of sheep shagging is viewed as a breeding necessity.


  543. Sidewinder,

    You need to get the heck away from the situation. Chill out. Go on a retreat or some thing. You are NOT in a frame of mind in which you can make any decisions with irrevocable consequences. So don’t make any such decisions.

    It is possible for a man and a woman who are involved in committed relationships with others to have a productive friendship in which sexual attraction is not acted upon. But not every man and every woman. Your level of infatuation and the problems in your own marriage work against that.

    IF your marriage is good, AND the initial infatuation has subsided to a tolerable level, THEN opposite-sex friendships can be safe. But you are not there. Cool it with Church Girl, work on your marriage with LTR game, and maybe in a few months or a year you will have a more realistic view of what you can and can’t do. Until then, only distance will keep you safe.


  544. Sidewhinner

    It sounds like both of you are drifting along in a coma. You are comatose from your groin sap having risen high enough to short out your brain and she is in a coma because that is where most girls live when it comes to guys.
    What you seem immune to hearing is that you and her are not even speaking the same language, much less are you on the same page. If you get naked with this girl you will learn just how true this is and how big a problem it will be.
    Your mushy-ness just tells her you are not emotionally attached to your family because you do not seem capable of attachment to anything.
    Even if your head was clear this is a very high risk endeavor. With a head full of confused, unfocused, womanish yearnings this is a prepaid trip to hell.


  545. Gorb, thanks for the vote of confidence. What exactly am I doing wrong here again? Oh yeah, I found a girl that I respect and like who likes me back. And trying to find a way to make it work out best for all inolved. You’re right, I should have just bent her over. I guess Alphas don’t acknoledge feelings, whether they be their own or others. Whatever.

    Polymath, i tried to get away. Twice. THe last time I really thought she was done with me, and I could not deal with the pain. I cannot proceed in any fashion with her out of my life right now. But, I’m okay not touching her.


  546. @Nicole

    You are showing as if you are a light weight beautiful girl and guys are falling for your and you have plenty of choices that you can discard or select a guy on your own sweet will! Funny! IT IS GREAT TO LIVE IN ILLUSIONS…women are too illusionary.


  547. So that is it. There is pain from missing Church Girl that you believe you cannot deal with. Dude, that is just foreplay. Keep sleep walk into the depths of this cluster-mess and you will get to prove that you can endure nearly infinite pain – made even sharper because it will all be in the public record.
    Heck, if your personal life blows up with enough violence and blood shed we might see the best parts on youtube.
    So, why am I trying to slow this down?


  548. Polymath, you’re obviously kind of naive too.

    Nobody misses an ugly girl’s lack of contribution to the sexual market.

    So all being chaste does for us is make us happier. It doesn’t make us more attractive to most western, especially American, men.

    For most, we’re invisible until they’ve gone through a very long dry spell, or are very drunk.

    We’re only attractive as mates to guys whose commitment criteria prioritizes loyalty above “hotness”. If we’re not hot, or whatever’s considered hot that decade, we’re at best, settled for.

    So being chaste may make a man more likely to settle for us, but it will not make him happy to be there, or his dick hard, or keep him from straying or leaving when he thinks he can do better.

    It is unrealistic to expect a guy to think you’re the most beautiful woman in the world if you’re not, but it was realistic up until about the 80’s to expect a guy not to tank the relationship because of a Hollywood template that’s stuck in his head.

    I mean…look at Sidewinder. He has a faithful wife at home who he says is hot. Yet he is actually hung up on a girl who is waving red flags about her low worth like a true patriot of Whoreskankistan. So we know where his priorities are.

    Western men will endure much humiliation for a hot girl that nobody else would stand for. Sidewinder is relishing the thought of another guy’s sperm coating his dick.

    They actually resent attention from girls they don’t consider hot. So on top of being chaste, we also have to be non imposing so guys don’t react badly to our being friendly…but then we get reacted to with anger if they want to dump sperm in us, and we decline. Then we’re overly entitled bitches.

    RV just has no idea, and neither do you, what it’s like to live in my skin. So I kinda resent being told what I should be doing by people who are clueless, but at the same time, hold people who are less attractive in contempt.

    Your contempt makes my point for me. If being chaste mattered at all for us, then you wouldn’t be so vitriolic about aspects of our appearance that has fuck all to do with whether or not we, as individuals, are putting out.


  549. Really, for a woman, character means nothing. That inner beauty is recognized in any way by western men anymore is a pretty lie that needs to be taken out back, and executed without even the dignity or formality of an old dog.

    The best advice you can give to a good woman who already isn’t screwing half the town is to be as pretty as you can be, insomuch as it doesn’t interfere with some crucial aspect of your integrity, and don’t recognize anyone’s possession of a penis until he behaves explicitly territorial.

    Be so lovely, feminine, and yet English headmistressy dignified that a guy will feel shame about propositioning you just for sex. In other words, act like your grandmother. Then you’ll only get offers from guys who will have to at least pretend to be as good as your grandfather. If you’re the sassy type, be the “juke joint” jazzy minx in the sea of spandex sausages.

    It takes more than just being chaste. Western men don’t care about chaste anymore. Be the best regognizeably icon of some mass media flavored beauty that it is within your ability to be, and then when you don’t emasculate him or take half, it’ll be his good luck that it was you and not someone else.

    Independent thinkers often have their own thing going, but even I have learned the advantages of being iconic. My style is Exotic Princess.


  550. Nicole,

    When have I shown contempt? Are you confusing me with someone else? I have always regarded you, and treated you, with respect, even when we disagreed, and I don’t even think you’re bad looking (I have on occasion found women who look like you who had great personalities to be attractive).

    You have said that men do not value chasteness in women who look like you. But which men? Male 9’s and 10’s will not expect to marry a 6.5 like Karen Owen but will shag her sometimes, obviously they would prefer her not to be chaste; but they will certainly prefer the female 9 they would consider marrying to not be a slut. The same holds further down the scale. If you only notice men whose rank is significantly higher than yours, you will find that they value sluttiness because sex is all they want from you; but men of your own attractiveness level who might be willing to marry someone like you will care that you are not a slut.

    So I don’t think it’s wrong to say that more men would be willing to commit to you the less sluttier you are; if you are rebutting this by saying that men will not want to commit to you in any event, then you are excluding from your sample space men you find unattractive but who would be willing to commit to you. There is nothing wrong with your refusing to be interested in men who don’t meet your standards and recognizing that it will be more difficult as a result to find a man willing to commit to you; but their existence as men whose willingness to commit to you would be positively influenced by your non-sluttiness remains even if you don’t want them, and therefore RV is still correct about this point.


  551. Character is not just important; it is our destiny – for most areas of life.. But for worthwhile, long term, committed nasty-moist encounters with hetero-guys do not offend his deep-wired fat sensing brain module. Its trip-level varies from guy to guy. But as long as it is not tripped, anything can happen. Especially if the guy worships your “golden cones.”


  552. @Sidewinder,
    Gorb, thanks for the vote of confidence. What exactly am I doing wrong here again? Oh yeah, I found a girl that I respect and like who likes me back. And trying to find a way to make it work out best for all inolved. You’re right, I should have just bent her over. I guess Alphas don’t acknoledge feelings, whether they be their own or others. Whatever.

    Poly and others will say what they want:

    If you’re going to fuck someone who’s not your wife, you need the right attitude. You absolutely don’t have it.

    IE, you know what you’re doing, you’ve evaluated the target, you know how you feel, you can segment your emotions, properly and without diluting them (not nearly as easy as it sounds), and you can–

    and you got it right —

    bend her over and fuck her properly.

    That’s what you do.

    *THE MOMENT* you start to pussyfoot around, debate this, wonder that, pick your moment, BLAM, that’s when your brain starts walking you into invisible traps and you – YOU – will make some mistake and Fwoomp everything you have is gone.

    You don’t know what you want. You have no idea how to get it. When presented, you fumble (this is without even considering your family). You do it repeatedly. You have growing contempt for your family and wife (for whatever reason – I mean, deal with that on its own. You’re married, not CR or Roosh or some single PUA. Fuck, even *I* have to consider my situation with care – there’s tons of shit I won’t do, and I’m not even married). Your contempt is showing in your words whether or not you see it.

    You need to chill. From what I’ve read, I’m not dissing you, I’m giving it to you straight. You are NOT in the frame of mind to be able to carry this off without fucking yourself over.

    Trust the guy who managed in a 3 year period to sleep with any number of married women, BFed women, and women of unexamined status – much of the time while juggling a GF or two. I’m not proud of it, but believe you me:

    Once the rush is gone, you start to see your mistakes, and I’ve been bitten hard on the ass on a number of occasions. I fucked myself over twice, at least, and hollowed out half my soul for a bit there – like some alkie on a bender, it could have been much tighter and more controlled and more rational. And much more pleasant.

    The one time it all went belly up bad I was in your frame of mind. You have *no* idea what you’re doing.

    Either take Poly’s and Rum’s advice and forget about it, get some distance, be friends, whatever, or explain it to this girl, tell her you want her badly, kiss her, and then, if she responds, ravage the woman in a way she’ll remember fondly. Then burn it out of your system.

    BUT ONE THING YOU HAVE TO STOP DOING:

    Stop taking it out on your family. Your obsession is likely killing anything you’ve got there, linking you emotionally to your wife or family. You’re not investing in gaming your wife, which would give you some steam, too.

    You can’t manage both in your current frame of mind. You’ll end up with neither.

    You’re not in a productive Cheat on my Wife frame. You’re going to tool them both, and yourself.

    You don’t see it, but this is going to happen.


  553. Sidewinder,

    When you are infatuated with someone, you cannot stop thinking about them, and you cannot make your own feelings go away. I am not unfamiliar with this. But you can still control overt actions like agreeing to meet with someone. (If you do meet with them, the physical proximity may make it almost impossible for you to resist a determined seduction attempt, depending on your experience at resisting temptation, but it is always possible to resist going to a non-public location with the person in the first place.)

    You are feeling emotional pain. I’m not offering a solution to that. But don’t kid yourself that your emotions are forcing you into this. Take responsibility for yourself. It sounds like your emotions are running so high that the only wise course of action is to retreat until you calm down. Even if you were to eventually to decide that the right thing to do was to abandon your wife and kids for this girl (which I of course discourage in the strongest terms), you STILL don’t want to make such a momentous decision in your current state, where your emotions are interfering with your ability to think clearly.


  554. @Everyone,

    Nicole has a point here.

    A non-attractive chaste girl isn’t getting anything else from a guy than she would if she were non-chaste.

    In fact, she’ll get less. At least as a non-chaste woman, she’ll likely get laid.

    On that point, I’ll give it to Nicole.

    That said, …

    The non-attractive woman can always win by simply lowering her standards. Women hate doing this.


  555. @Sidewinder,

    You can listen to me. I’m not telling you one way or the other, I can just read your mental state. Do nothing and you at least live to fight another day if you want to; do something in your mental state and you’re very likely to fuck yourself over.

    A guy with moxy would have bent the girl over, made her and you happy, explained it, and maybe tasted forbidden fruit a bit more; then moved on. And then been there for his family. That kind of guy can get away with cheating if the women he’s with is discreet and wants the same.

    Guys who throw their emotions around like gushy footballs and start actually thinking with their dicks become dicks and get chopped down to size. You’re going to make massive errors and not even realize it. You can’t carry it off.

    I’d listen to Poly, frankly. You’re going to regret it all when it blows up and everything you have is ditched for nothing.

    Dude, come on.

    Voice of Reason.

    It’s in your head. Dial it up.

    You’re just not going to get away with this, and the reason isn’t even you getting caught (still a chance of it). It’s because *you’re* going to fuck it up.


  556. [...] a stud, the woman’s a slut, got it. Yet still and all, it’s pseudo-intellectual bimbos like this who probably complain that there aren’t any real men [...]


  557. on October 18, 2010 at 12:43 am Gunslingergregi

    fuck her in the mouth and then the ass.

    Then titty fuck her.

    None of that is sex according to woman right?

    So you would be all good.

    No worries.

    he he he


  558. This thread is getting a little depressing: married man asking for advice how to cheat, men and women bashing each other.

    @nicole,
    Cheer up.

    @sidewinner,
    Divorce.


  559. Polymath,

    She’s had other boyfriends. I have read all her posts on this thread and before posting I read some things she’s said elsewhere on the internet. She has interesting views and she’s come a long way out of the feminist fog bank. But she’s naive about the options of women less attractive than her.

    Here’s the absurdity from RV that set off my responses:

    Any woman can find a sucker to pay for the children of another man. All it takes is lying. Most men wouldn’t ask for a paternity test and if they would, you’re bad at girl game if you can’t get him to cave on that.

    Any woman? Said from the standpoint of an 8+ woman who does not know what it is like to be a sexually invisible 1, 2, 3. Really, some woman who is 1 month pregnant can manage to bed some beta guy and get him to marry her before her pregnancy becomes known? I mean, really?

    You really want to agree with her on this? She’s telling this to a black American woman. Be serious. If all black American women set their minds to it what percentage of black American women could manage to land a husband and provider for, say, 20 years?

    There’s unreality in her viewpoint of what most women can get from guys. The unreality is especially absurd when she’s lecturing Nicole, about 18 years her senior, living in a culture far farther along in relationship decay who really gets the score.

    You say:

    First of all having more time to play the field doesn’t mean they have to; secondly, who says young women can’t look for somewhat older men? :P

    The desire for sex is a lot harder to ignore when birth control pills will prevent pregnancy and media feed images of its desirability. Being chaste was much easier 200 years ago when the consequences of a baby outside of marriage could be so catastrophic. Read John Boswell’s The Kindness Of Strangers about abandonment of babies into foundling homes where most died. A much more brutal set of circumstances. What we are witnessing is the gradual death of the norms created by much more brutal circumstances.

    You also say:

    Are you suggesting that there is a negative correlation between being successful, attractive, and alpha and being a great father and husband? I hope not.

    You hope that guys who have a lot more options won’t act on them. You hope that highly attractive guys with strong sex drives and a strong desire for variety won’t act on their desires. Well, good luck with that hope.

    But why is it unrealistic that highly attractive and smart people should be able to snag highly attractive and smart partners? Why should a woman not as attractive as a TV wife expect to get someone as attractive as a TV husband?

    Highly attractive smart women have to compete with highly attractive not-so-smart women. Guys are more turned on by looks than by brains. Highly attractive smart women need to be willing to marry down somewhat in order to get a guy who will stick with them.


  560. Polymath says, “When have I shown contempt?”

    It is written all over your smarminess.

    “Are you confusing me with someone else?”

    Nope.

    “I have always regarded you, and treated you, with respect, even when we disagreed, and I don’t even think you’re bad looking (I have on occasion found women who look like you who had great personalities to be attractive).”

    …but you’re defending a woman with an overall, rather abraisive (read shitty) personality as if she was angelic for being mercenary.

    The fact that someone who looks like me has to have a great personality to be attractive, and someone like her can have a shitty personality and be attractive, shows that you have contempt for ugly people.

    I won’t speculate on how beta this makes you, but the least you could do is require both your fugly and your fine bitches to have great personalities.

    “You have said that men do not value chasteness in women who look like you. But which men?”

    Mainly Americans, but the disease is spreading. In other cultures, a girl has to be of a lower caste that has something to do with religion and/or socioeconomic class, or in some places still, nobility, to get the kind of treatment ugly (literally or just socially) girls get in the U.S.

    “Male 9′s and 10′s will not expect to marry a 6.5 like Karen Owen but will shag her sometimes, obviously they would prefer her not to be chaste; but they will certainly prefer the female 9 they would consider marrying to not be a slut.”

    They would prefer it, but not require it…not for a 10 or for a socially “beautiful” 5 like Karen Owen.

    “The same holds further down the scale.”

    Not in the U.S.

    “If you only notice men whose rank is significantly higher than yours,”

    What exactly do you mean by “higher rank”?

    I know what you mean, but humor me. If you answer as I think you well, your criteria is outdated.

    “you will find that they value sluttiness because sex is all they want from you; but men of your own attractiveness level who might be willing to marry someone like you will care that you are not a slut.”

    Men of my attractiveness level don’t want women of their attractiveness level. They want women who are significantly more attractive than they are.

    It’s not just women who are overly entitled in the west. They’re like ants in a jar of sugar. All the good stuff is at the bottom, but they’re struggling to get to the few grains on the top.

    “So I don’t think it’s wrong to say that more men would be willing to commit to you the less sluttier you are;”

    More men are willing to settle for less slutty but ugly girls, but they are apparently unwilling to keep them if they believe at some point that there is a “better” option.

    “if you are rebutting this by saying that men will not want to commit to you in any event, then you are excluding from your sample space men you find unattractive but who would be willing to commit to you.”

    You haven’t read a word I said.

    These men don’t exist in any significant numbers.

    By the time a less hot woman graduates from high school or university, she’s been traumatized by men and women who make it some kind of a mission to make her feel bad about herself, not to get into the messages that she receives from the media that she is not good enough.

    Why do you think the ring photo chick behaves like she’s won the lottery?

    For every one of her, there are likely five whose boyfriends only reluctantly committed because she was the best he thought he could do at the time, and put minimal investment into the relationship.

    “There is nothing wrong with your refusing to be interested in men who don’t meet your standards and recognizing that it will be more difficult as a result to find a man willing to commit to you; but their existence as men whose willingness to commit to you would be positively influenced by your non-sluttiness remains even if you don’t want them, and therefore RV is still correct about this point.”

    Again, the non sluttiness is the consolation prize. The grand prize is a hot chick.


  561. @Bling Bling,

    I do believe you deserve an award. Short, pithy, to the point, accurate.


  562. @Poly, @Nicole,

    Again, the non sluttiness is the consolation prize. The grand prize is a hot chick.

    Alas, I fear Nicole has a bead on the target here.

    Men will still pick the hot target.

    Men are simple and sad creatures, when you get right down to it.


  563. Gorbachev says, “The non-attractive woman can always win by simply lowering her standards. Women hate doing this.”

    Which standards should be lowered though?

    Anybody wins in a way, from accepting reality and making the best use of the options they have, few as they may be.

    In a way, once I figured out most American guys either hated me for existing or were too pussy to defy the social pressure, since I was in Italy, I stopped expecting them to be otherwise, and this saved me a lot of potential pain. So I “won” in a way, by gaining the attentions of a Polish Israeli with what little femininity I had left, but I still had to leave behind the naive view of an America where I could just be a woman.

    As if I haven’t said it enough, you guys here have no freaking clue how different you are from most people. Most men don’t even know that their problem with women isn’t that they aren’t conforming enough. They believe the Hollywood hype.

    There are some aware guys out there, but they are few and far between, and unless they have the luck of finding a community like this one, they think they are alone or freaks.


  564. @Nicole,

    There are some aware guys out there, but they are few and far between, and unless they have the luck of finding a community like this one, they think they are alone or freaks.

    Okay, Nicole,

    Just what then are these guys aware of?


  565. on October 18, 2010 at 2:07 am Gunslingergregi

    Nicole was married twice and has a kid.

    Ok

    So in normal circumstance she could have been living on welfare and collecting child support.

    We don’t need a pity party for the poor woman.

    Imagine being a guy oweing nicole child support.

    That would demand a pity party every day for 18 to 21 years.

    Or more than a life in prison conviction which is 20 years.


  566. No, Gorbachev, men are not sad creatures…at least not moreso than women. Humans in general are kinda pathetic, but it’s my home team, so I think we’re worth preserving.

    It’s feminized men who are sad creatures. Men should not be giving a crap about women’s social status. They should not be letting the television tell them what beauty is. They should have more prostitutes and less porn. Women generally should not really even be publically visible enough that whether or not other guys want to screw them should be a factor in selection.

    At the root of what’s wrong with both male and female selection today is feminism. Both men and women are now demanding unrealistic things from each other.

    Guys should demand that women take care of themselves, and are supposed to be most sexually attracted to the women who are most beautiful or display a minimal amount of beauty combined with availability.

    What men are not supposed to do is conflate beauty or hotness with long term suitability. What gives you an erection isn’t necessarily what you’re supposed to want to invest in or even bond with.

    As things are, a lot of men are missing out sexually, and a lot of women are missing out of solid commitments because the culture sets them up for a fall.

    I mean…imagine just the difference prostitution would make. If every working man could afford to go someplace and get a hand job from an actual woman, without worrying about the cops, wanking alone to a photo of a woman who is just as much a prostitute would probably lose some of its appeal. It would also train men towards sexual interaction with humans more than images.


  567. Gorbachev asks, “Just what then are these guys aware of?”

    That all that glitters is not gold.


  568. A attractive woman talking about dealing with men to an unattractive woman is exactly like a powerful(rich/social position) man jabbering to a not-powerful man abut what women are like, and how the not-powerful man should treat women and blah-blah.

    The powerful man, coming from a position where he can get a woman if he wants, get a specific woman maybe, and all women give whatever he says attention and respect… even if it is patently idiotic, will have all sorts of “advice” for the not-powerful man that is borderline-insane for the not-powerful man to follow.

    Both the attractive woman and the powerful man, need to shut up telling those of lower DMV how to act.

    Cause they are wrong.


  569. Nicole, Again, the non sluttiness is the consolation prize. The grand prize is a hot chick.

    Bullshit. Though I may not be considered a typical American man (Being also a Canuck and formely EE dude), I can gauge the true state of affairs from my own experience and that of my peers.

    Yes, men do consider the sexual attraction to a woman that they deem as a marriage material. But often they go a notch down to acquire other qualities. Being non-slutty is high on the priority list (disregarding beta paradigm as they usually are not able to have their say about the matter), beside being non-bitch, and having a modicum of intelligence and emotional capacity that indicates they may be the right mix for rearing children. And one important trait–not trying to do her man makeover. You sometimes have to date a woman for at lest one/two years to discern a presence of that unfortunate trait.

    I dumped a 9, entitled model material with a bitchy personality and status hungry, for a 7.5 (granted, with an obtuse pubic angle which gets me always even on a 6 … :-)). She had a more palatable and mellower personality traits, so I felt like a winner. That she became later a borderline schizo was a bad luck. But if I kept the 9, I could just project without a difficulty the long (or short) of bundles of unhappiness hitting me like a brick wall, repeatedly.

    I see a similar pattern amongst my peers.


  570. Note re Sidewhiner… Let him crash. He wants to burn, let him. Maybe he’d learn something in the aftermath, though I doubt it. He’s a hopeless loser.


  571. Blah, they’re not always wrong. Bear in mind that not every powerful man or beautiful woman has been so since birth.

    It’s just people who have never experienced certain disadvantages who may have trouble relating. If they can relate (which many socially adept people can if people give them the chance) sometimes they become the most adamant supporters of sanity.

    So I like to ask them to try to relate, and make them aware of areas they are having trouble with, rather than branding them as incapable…especially dominant men. They usually didn’t get that way from not being able to think out of the box.

    Speaking of which, on the all that glitters thing, I feel like every time a guy has that moment where he realizes that game works, an angel gets its wings.

    That is the beginning of understanding that we women are much simpler creatures than we’d like you men to believe…and that if you let us, we will eat you alive without remorse.

    The more power through beauty or otherwise that a woman has, the more integrity she will be required to have in order not to fuck you. Since women are generally pragmatists, regardless of what we look like, integrity is probably not what a guy should bank on exclusively.

    A woman should view you as valuable enough that losing you would mean losing more than a small hit to her ego and then moving to the next sucker.

    So when I’m explaining the perspective of an ugly girl, I’m not promoting us as better mates. We’re still women. What I’m saying is that since all women uglify eventually, it is important for guys not to fall for convenient illusions like ugly women having a whole bunch of options that we don’t have.

    Women are not all that. The ones who seem so only have about 10 years of being all that, if they’re lucky. So no man should lose his dignity over *any* woman, no matter how hot she is.


  572. @Nicole,

    I agree with Morsellaux on the personality thing. I rarely know any guy who really care about looks that much at all. Cheer up lol.


  573. … long (or short) periods of time laced by bundles of unhappiness…


  574. Bling Bing, men do care about looks, but it has to be seen in a context. Often it involves educated (or less so) guesses, for instance how his woman may look after 20 years. I am keenly aware of that type of projection crossing my mind. While the mother of the 9 was an ugly, obese bitchy matron, the mother of my 7.5 1st X was relatively lean and decent looking for her age. And my assumption was right, at the age of 56, my 1st X is still decent looking, compared to the average populated by bitched whales.


  575. Morsellaux,

    It is almost impossible to predict how well a person age, not even by looking at his or her parents.

    Of course men care about looks; women care about looks as much as men do. But I just meant that Nicole’s dissatisfaction with men seem to be mostly because she thinks that men care about looks *too much* (I didn’t read carefully, maybe I didn’t get it right). Just saying there are tons of guys out there who don’t. So cheer up Nicole :P


  576. Morsellaux, you’re still talking about women in the top tier. A 7 with a pretty good personality may beat out an abraisive or psycho 9, but there’s no way you’re going to do more for a 5 than a very drunk slump bust.

    Even Polymath might do a 4 on the natch if she won a Nobel Prize or runs a no-euthanasia cattery on the inheritance from her oil baron father, but he wouldn’t want people to know about it.

    This isn’t a bad thing. People are allowed their preferences. It’s just that as far as women who are not within your range of preference, you don’t care whether they are the Whore of Babylon or as pure as the driven snow. You just don’t notice them.


  577. Bling, I’m not saying that men care too much about looks. I’m saying that western men specifically, prioritize a certain look that is manipulated by feminists, as more important than other crucial traits of either feminine appearance or nurturing behavior.

    I *wish* it was looks as in actual beauty and grooming.

    If that was so then just about every woman between 15 and 23 or so, would fit the criteria, so long as she took reasonable care of herself including eating natural food.

    As it is, they’re being programmed towards increasingly masculine looking older women. You wouldn’t think there was a big difference between 20 and 25, but there is.

    When 27+ year old women are being promoted as sex symbols as a rule, rather than an exception, something is wrong. 27 to 40-something sexy is supposed to be an adept belly dancer or sassy singer in a classy evening gown or jeans…not a frankensteinian cyborg in a thong.

    This lean, mean, cyborg on amphetamines, clenbuterol, testosterone, and HGH, has become the ideal we women are supposed to aspire to. In lab conditions, it’s not even what men actually prefer. On the street though, a half tranny gets a pussy pass to be all manner of skank, and an 18 year old Black with soft features has to have a great personality just to have the honor of being a sperm dumpster.

    Something is wrong, and it’s not focus on looks. Men have always been very visual. It’s just that they didn’t always prefer the feminist version of fit.

    I have no problem with men, even men who prefer the tranny look because they find the sight of muscles and bones aesthetically pleasing. It’s just that this is a fetish while preference for slim but curvy, nubile, soft women is what’s really normal.


  578. The more power through beauty or otherwise that a woman has, the more integrity she will be required to have in order not to fuck you. Since women are generally pragmatists, regardless of what we look like, integrity is probably not what a guy should bank on exclusively.

    Again, what fear hath a man of power of that? He can pretend the rose has no thorns, for for it has no thorns for him. His power stops women, on a very practical level, from pissing him off. For how will the powerful man retaliate against a woman who has wronged him?

    I suppose that further explains the sugar-and-spice “better half” talk that comes out of powerful men though, eh? Women are angels, for them.


  579. Nicole, not sure what your point is. Yes, I have my prefs and won’t do a 5. I may notice less than 6, but not in the mate (S/L) context.

    The point is, no matter where the men are on the scale and what they accept, they prefer non-slutty women as a LTR material. Period.

    I do care about these men. It is a bit of calculation on my side, but who is not having a self interest of some kind. The feminazis go after all men, so I have a natural kinship with them.

    You know how story goes… First they went after xxxx and I said nothing…


  580. Bling Bing

    It is almost impossible to predict how well a person age, not even by looking at his or her parents.

    I was also very interested in a photo album of grandparents and grand-grandparents. It does not provide a certainty, but gives significant odds. It was not something conscious (or overly so), just a curiosity. I actually realized much later what I was doing.


  581. @Morse

    “Note re Sidewhiner… Let him crash. He wants to burn, let him. Maybe he’d learn something in the aftermath, though I doubt it. He’s a hopeless loser.”

    Excellently true observation: hopeless loser. I hate his puling narcissistic posts.

    He’s a dick.


  582. I think its more a matter of a guy not heeding some basic principles such as

    1) Fish or cut bait. The denouement of game should happen quickly.

    2) Don’t let a woman control the frame. To let Church Girl say ‘I am not going to kiss you because your children are my first priority” is like watching a really bad Mexican soap opera or watching a train wreck in slow motion.

    His kids are going to be just fine considering the whacko child support laws in the US.

    I liked reading your posts, Sidewinder, but make this a film worth watching and make it more a comedy than a tragedy.


  583. I’m not sure why PUA types are so hostile to this woman. Her list of qualifications on how to rate the men play exactly into their ideas of what women love in a man- alphaness.

    What’s more if a woman likes alpha men/being dominated, doesn’t that sort of contradict the idea that this one slutty woman (and slutty women in general) is masculinized by her promiscuity? High levels of testosterone are supposed to cause/contribute to dominant sexual behaviour, as you know- female rats injected with the stuff hump other female rats as if they were males, lesbians are supposed to have been exposed to higher levels of it in utero, etc. Testosterone also causes higher levels of libido, to be sure, but this woman’s combination of promiscuity and submissive behaviour seems to suggest hormones are not the only factor. What say you?

    Though it remains to be seen if my desire to fuck men in the ass is related to testosterone levels, I’ve never had a test. Or if my boyfriend suffers from a lack. Yeah that’s another thing, would it be cheating for me to give myself a c) on the Dating Value Market Test’s anal question based on this information? :D


  584. [...] an “alpha male player’s” take on things (extreme language and topic warnings).  He savages this girl.   She’s a slut.  She’s useless, and has destroyed what slight value she may have [...]


  585. Blah says, “Again, what fear hath a man of power of that? He can pretend the rose has no thorns, for for it has no thorns for him.”

    Good point. Thing is, most men in the west aren’t using their power. It’s sad.

    A woman should be scared shitless to screw over a man.

    “Nicole, not sure what your point is. Yes, I have my prefs and won’t do a 5. I may notice less than 6, but not in the mate (S/L) context.”

    I don’t know if your scale has a Spears-Jolie 10 or a Hayworth-Monroe 10, so I can’t speculate on whether or not you are legitimately filtering out the masculine or volunteering for pain.

    “The point is, no matter where the men are on the scale and what they accept, they prefer non-slutty women as a LTR material. Period.”

    My point is that though they say they would prefer non-slutty women, men will overlook the sluttiness of hot women, and completely discount non hot women, slutty or not. A plain prude will usually end up alone.

    This is natural and beneficial when men’s beauty ideals and preferences are socially reenforced (or enforced in a way). This is bad when men’s beauty ideals and preferences are twisted to herd them towards more masculine and/or older women who are sufficiently feminist.


  586. Guns says, “Nicole was married twice and has a kid.

    Ok

    So in normal circumstance she could have been living on welfare and collecting child support.”

    Oh yeah, I’d just stop building websites and live on $400 a month.

    Not every Black woman is a welfare queen. I have a higher IQ than 996 out of 1000 northern Europeans. Unless you’re one of the 4, you should sit this round of Nicole bashing out.


  587. on October 18, 2010 at 2:28 pm Gunslingergregi

    It is a lot more than 400 a month.

    But yea.

    Just saying you might have suffered but when you look realistically at your situation.

    You have options.

    look at a guy who is at the bottom.

    Hell of a lot less options.

    No ability to make money each month for doing what he was biologically made to do pop out a kid.

    Nobody is going to feel bad.

    They will just tell him to man up.

    And pay his child support.

    There are men actually making less than 4oo a month and expected to live on that and really not much of a choice about getting out of that situation if they don’t have help.

    So sure you may be at bottom of barrell for woman but still dating engineers and complaining?

    But then still way above guys on the child support alimony band wagon.

    I am just not letting the poor woman thing slide.

    Just too many options in west for all woman to do what the fuck they want at the expense of men.


  588. Guns, I am not the bottom of te barrel, but I get your point. If I was a guy, I’d be legally, much more vulnerable.

    …but then, if I was a guy, and a woman tried to screw me, I would beat the crap out of her, and if se dialled 911, I would keep beating the crap out of her until the moment the police pulled me off of her.

    She might not survive screwing me. Bitches would know that about me going in. I wouldn’t marry a guy for whom this is not true. Balls are required for me.

    So for the first one, whatever he gives our daughter is optional, visitation is a non issue because it’s open door both ways, and when I visit, if we’re both unattached, we still shag. I’m kind of emotionally missing, but I understand that’s my craziness, and set pride aside for a time. Besides, he’s learned his lesson. Women like me or better than me aren’t easy to find unattached.

    My second husband is similarly butched. I wouldn’t try to screw him, but if I was to lose my damned mind and consider it, he’d snuff me out like a candle.

    I’m not trying to garner pity. I’m explaining the reason why I didn’t get married from being a prude. I shagged my first husband the night we met, and the second one, the night we met in person. I seriously doubt that if I was playing games, either of them would have wanted to see me again.

    …because an ugly or socially ugly woman who plays games is repellant. Being selective is a good thing, but some uniform policy of behaving like the princess of the world, especially with very dominant men, is a very bad idea.


  589. There are other games and roles than the princess for women of, shall we say, under-appreciated attractiveness. But most of them lack the imagination or motivation to come up with them, let alone pull them off successfully. But you’re most likely aware of this, though you seem to have chosen a no-games (from your side) approach when it comes to relationships. Can be refreshing.


  590. Frost, it’s more of a dual pronged not selecting wusses and not playing games. I wasn’t sure what I was doing right until I spend awhile doing things wrong, and then came here and figured out my youthful bumbling was the right strategy in the first place.

    Some people aren’t going to like this, but to get into my pants, a guy has to do things that a feminist would call “coercion” and “rape”. I have a solid English nanny style prude shield (since I’m too old now for the tomboy shield to be cute rather than old Lesbian) that falls to pieces when a guy begins to behave territorially, but *only* then. He directs, and I go along unless or until he goes in a direction I don’t want to go (like fuckbuddy). The right time to have sex is whenever he decides it’s time.

    I think it’s quite logical, despite being somewhat risky. Guys looking for something casual don’t care what you’re doing when you’re not shagging. Guys who aren’t casual require that you account for your time. Guys who are crazy take you for granted or treat you like crap but then expect you to be there for them. It’s a pretty simple filter. Just don’t recognize the interest of anybody who doesn’t behave like he wants to see you again.

    The few romantic mistakes I’ve made have been going along with guys who weren’t territorial and prioritizing loyalty, just friendly and desperate enough to shag a woman they think is ugly.


  591. @Sidewinder

    I find it fascinating that you learned enough from this blog in a few months to actually dig down and find out that a 25 year old married woman at your church was actually lusting after you and would prefer you to her husband…especially after you stopped being so beta as to not try to game her at all.

    She actually said the only thing keeping herself from cheating on her husband was your children’s welfare?

    A 25 year old, presumably married to a beta her own age is saying that to a 35 year old CR blog reader, presumably partly because he was a CR blog reader….Interesting.

    That’s huge. And the lesson it makes against Beta husbands should not be lost on anyone.

    With all the criticism, often valid, of Sidewinder’s Angst-ridden prose, the educational benefits of his writing far outweigh any annoyance.

    Its a huge warning sign for young men not to get married. The Beta husband is guaranteed to have his wife end up in another man’s bed sooner or later and Sidewinder”s screwed because he got married instead of just having had some kids (preferably in a country where child support is reasonable)

    I can’t imagine a 9 saying to me “I’d jump in the sack with you tonight but its not in the best interest of your children so I won’t”.


  592. 1) Sidewinder has shown that a Beta husband cannot rely on the idea that his wife will be loyal if she goes to church all the time…she may be especially prone to cheating with a man who also goes to the church.

    2) Sidewinder has shown that a Beta husband cannot rely on the idea that men at a church will not compete against each other to nail his wife, including giving dirty looks to each other and possibly brawling in the church parking lot.

    It must really suck to be a Beta husband.


  593. on October 19, 2010 at 11:05 am rebelliousvanilla

    Ok, my Firefox crashed and I lost the whole message and I won’t write all of it again.

    Randall, for a black unattractive woman, marrying a plumber is a good thing. As I said, we shouldn’t shoot out of our league. A professional stock trader, doctor or whatever isn’t going to invest that much in someone underneath him. Polymath answered you fairly well. The equivalent of a dried up, overweight woman with a nasty personality to boot is me expecting a famous and rich celebrity man to divorce his wife and marry me. What I said doesn’t make a 2 with no looks have the same marriage prospects as a percet 10, but it does give her the opportunity to marry a man IN HER LEAGUE! It’s exactly what Gorbachev said – these women don’t lower their standards far enough.

    Morsellaux, our current civilization is in the same gutter that Rome was before collapsing. I didn’t say we have the same causes for being in that situation. But it’s still the same stuff – financial ruin with monetary devaluation, depopulation, invasions by foreigners and so on. Exact same situation. And I will cheer when we will collapse because I completely loathe what European civilization became since 1850 on, except France which was already on the downside since the 18th century. It’s like Arnold Toynbee says – civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.

    Sidewinder, what she says is 101 girl game. If I had to conquer the heart of a married man, I’d say the exact same thing. Listen to Gorbachev, what he said is flawless in his replies.

    manyacapo, 100-200 years ago I would have been a staunch anti-feminist. Right now though, I have no reason to. As Aikou says, the only reason I’d have to oppose it is a sense of peoplehood and altruism towards people like me. But right now, those things are being destroyed by things unrelated to feminism and as long as there’s no real opposition against them, I have no reason to oppose feminism. Also, while Lenin was an idiot in what he supported, paradigm shifts happen when things get worse, not better. Since I mind a lot more about Western civilization than feminism, supporting feminism for me is the opposite of a double whammy – I get individual benefits and I make a change of paradigm more likely. It’s like a disagreement I have with Polymath. I see America is doomed and that the cancer progressed too far to fix anything through political means. If that’s the case, a collapse is desirable. But again, I’m the little counter-revolutionary person.

    gunslinger, let’s make a thought experiment. I’m an alien and I visit the Earth every 100 years to see if humans developed the capacity needed for me to contact them. It’s 1900 and white men control the Earth and what have you. I come back in 2000 and I see what’s around today – multiculturalism, political correctness and feminism. I’d think that white men lost some war against nonwhites and women. In the end, OTHER white men fucked up. Nobody made you give citizenship to other people or give us the vote or anything. So if you want to point fingers, point it at them. And I don’t see what kind of loyalty I owe to these men either – they allowed their countries to be invaded, they spent their way into oblivion and mortgaged the future of their children and so on. The deal was that women were supposed to entertain men, obey them and whatever provided that the former didn’t happen. If you want to blame women for it, go ahead, but please point to me the war that got us power over men.

    Nicole, I suggest that from now on when you comment on this blog, you bring your high IQ with you because your comments are light on the insight and heavy on the whining and well, taking jabs at me is a fairly unintelligent thing. I’d also like to point out to you that someone with an IQ over 142, which is something you’d need to be smarter than 996 out of 1000 ethnic Scandinavians isn’t having website design as a source of employment.

    Someone that intelligent would be able to comprehend that as a black woman in her 40s that is overweight, bitter and possesses a quite unpleasant personality isn’t going to attract men that are willing to commit to her. Your ridiculous lack of entitlement is sort of amusing though. So let’s see, successful men should be selected for their success and providing capacity, but they should disregard age and looks altogether, right? That’s the equivalent of expecting women to go for losers with no prospects and social skills. What I tried to explain to you is fairly simple, actually – on a relative basis, you can improve your marriage prospects by doing what I said. This won’t put you in the front of the line, like you seem to think that you’re entitled to. It will just mean that a man that would give you the time of day would commit to you. And if you’re so invisible that men don’t notice you, it would be on you to make them do it. But again, I don’t see why any man would marry a woman who can’t even give him children anymore and if she would be able to, not keep them healthy and that would feed them trash.

    Morsellaux actually proved my point – men are willing to loosen their standards related to looks if that woman can offer something else in exchange, but this doesn’t mean that a 2 would marry just as well as a 10. For a 2 being able to marry is something. Men don’t my slutty girls when all they do is shag them. If they’re to do more with them, their sexual partners count is an issue.

    >>The fact that someone who looks like me has to have a great personality to be attractive, and someone like her can have a shitty personality and be attractive, shows that you have contempt for ugly people.<<
    That was really a statement that would be made by someone with a 142IQ. That's how things ARE and will ALWAYS be like. Also, I put into question the fact that you have a great personality – you're a bitter, envious and sad human being. Just because I don't kowtow to the idiocy you espouse doesn't mean I have a shitty personality, it means I don't tolerate meaningless bullshit. Attraction is based only on looks, so attraction itself has contempt for ugly people. Welcome to the world, cupcake. What I tried to explain to you is that a man will cut some slack to a woman who can make up for it, but shockinly for someone so intelligent, you didn't even understand it after a series of posts from both me and Polymath(who unlike you has more than a living brain cell that is programmed only to whine like a little child).

    You have the same ridiculousness that feminists do – God be damned if looks matter. Since you kept rambling about how to us committing matters, why do you care he just settles for you and you have to chase him? I mean, nowhere is it written that you have to sit like a princess while men beg you to marry them. If you're ugly as a wart, you better do some things on your part too and not expect too much, but this doesn't mean you'll be unable to marry. It's relatively amusing that you think men OUGHT to chase unattractive girls. As you say, what men do for me, maybe one guy in an ugly girl's life would consider doing – and my advice was for that girl to be able to fetch that guy.

    Gorbachev, you will have to wait a bit more for my reply since right now I lost my mood to answer things here. lol


  594. rebelliousvanilla

    Ok, my Firefox crashed and I lost the whole message and I won’t write all of it again.

    lie

    Firefox never crashes
    – unless you’ve been downloadin
    20 porn files at once


  595. on October 19, 2010 at 11:45 am Gunslingergregi

    ””’The equivalent of a dried up, overweight woman with a nasty personality to boot is me expecting a famous and rich celebrity man to divorce his wife and marry me.””””

    You are probably selling yourself short if you are hot and smart you can get a millionaire.


  596. Jerry, you make a good point. For the two years prior to reading this blog, church girl and I just sat there exchanging looks at one another. After about 4 months of studying game, the situation has changed drastically. Integrating game principles into my interaction with women has definitely influenced the situation. While she said a bunch of shit about being concerned about this or that, the only reason we haven’t fucked is because I haven’t made the move.

    I do appreciate all the responses to my often insane posts. I was being a pussy Sunday night, and I did lose complete control of the frame with my conversation with her. Even the hateful comments help remind me to man the f up. I dug myself somewhat of a hole with her Sunday and I am going to have to re-establish the frame.

    As someone in the eye of the gaming storm, I will say that it is really difficult to authentically experience the highs and lows of feeling out a new relationship (which you want to do because that is what makes it exciting, right?) while also maintaining an unaffected objective mind capable of making the best rational moves as the situation demands. So, while I do appreciate the reminders to stop being a pussy, you guys should understand that 1) this is a pretty f’d up situation potentially and 2) the game isn’t worth playing if you don’t put yourself into it.


  597. on October 19, 2010 at 1:59 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Firepower, or if you have over ten tabs open(some of them being youtube videos and facebook games), which is the case for me. How about you get over the fact I didn’t want to send you pictures already and stop getting your panties in a bunch? It’s not like the insults of someone completely irrelevant matter to me, so you’re wasting your time.

    Gorbachev, you will notice the same attitude in Swedes and other people fairly soon since having high trust in Sweden right now is completely idiotic, just like it didn’t make sense to be trusty in the Phanariote times when people actually bought the thrones in my country to rule it from the Ottomans. The mentality inherited from that was beginning to go away after WW1, but then WW2 came with communism afterward(when you could go to jail for trusting the wrong people). I’m actually different in this regard since I do trust people, but since I got burned, I do it selectively. I would trust a Swede in a business, but I wouldn’t trust a Muslim, for example. For example, I don’t have the Phanariote mentality of gaming the system – I wouldn’t do the marry well and divorce thing because the system allows me. Obviously, this means I’m royally screwed since other people do it. I had a funny chat with a Danish friend of mine related to living in Denmark during my graduate and I told him that I’d feel bad about taking aid from the government since it’s paid by Danish citizens and it’s silly that non-Danes can take that money. I hate these systems. Still, I agree with that part of your post about my country.

    Related to being logical, the only reason that people have against being completely selfish is altruism to their own people. For example, while I do see Sweden’s welfare state as an idiocy because it lowers the living standards of everyone, including their poor, I do get why it happens to be in Sweden. They used to be a homogeneous country in which altruism was important due to the quite numerous famines they had, which shaped their character. This is what I find it relatively amusing because we both agree feminism is garbage, yet if you were to order how society is, I would be forced to be a feminist since I’d have no reason to feel loyal to that society considering it would have no real people and by default peoplehood wouldn’t deter me from pursuing things only for myself. It’s ironic, isn’t it?

    Related to communist Romania, you have another irony. While we sent intelligent people to their death for being unequal and undermining the nonsense of the communists, the only people getting promoted were the people who did the right things for the party or for the Securitate. And obviously, just like in America all inventors are African Americans and most murderers are white, the stupidest people in Romania became geniuses. Ta da. And no, my insight doesn’t come from that considering that I’ve been a feel good idiot until an year and a bit ago. It comes from a female trait named vanity. But again, coming from you, it would be hypocritical to tell me I shouldn’t form my worldview based on what suits me the best considering you formed yours based on liking Asian women, right? ;)

    By the way, since Trotsky invented the concept of racism and you seem to not mind it that much, why Gorbachev and not Trotsky? :P

    Gunslinger, as a side note, famous celebrities are millionaires.


  598. @rebelliousvanilla
    Gorbachev, you will notice the same attitude in Swedes and other people fairly soon since having high trust in Sweden right now is completely idiotic, just like it didn’t make sense to be trusty in the Phanariote times when people actually bought the thrones in my country to rule it from the Ottomans. The mentality inherited from that was beginning to go away after WW1, but then WW2 came with communism afterward(when you could go to jail for trusting the wrong people). I’m actually different in this regard since I do trust people, but since I got burned, I do it selectively. I would trust a Swede in a business, but I wouldn’t trust a Muslim, for example. For example, I don’t have the Phanariote mentality of gaming the system –

    The Phanariotes were a wonderful, perfect example of a group that knew how to milk the cow.

    And on Islam, I’ll give you this:

    http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/455813/I+ll+see+your+Jihad/

    I wouldn’t do the marry well and divorce thing because the system allows me. Obviously, this means I’m royally screwed since other people do it.

    It does surprise me that you wouldn’t try this, given the level of personal success that could be had by doing it.

    I had a funny chat with a Danish friend of mine related to living in Denmark during my graduate and I told him that I’d feel bad about taking aid from the government since it’s paid by Danish citizens and it’s silly that non-Danes can take that money. I hate these systems. Still, I agree with that part of your post about my country.</I.

    It's sad, but seems to be true about more than just Romania.
    It appears to be a regional effect.

    Related to being logical, the only reason that people have against being completely selfish is altruism to their own people.</I.

    I agree – if we also assume that "own people" is one of those definitions that is relatively flexible.

    For example, while I do see Sweden’s welfare state as an idiocy because it lowers the living standards of everyone, including their poor, I do get why it happens to be in Sweden. They used to be a homogeneous country in which altruism was important due to the quite numerous famines they had, which shaped their character.

    Sweden has been amongst the first nations to qurstion the legitimacy of its own exclusive ethnic identity. Unfortunately for Sweden.

    I’m hoping the Anglosphere has more absorptive abilities.

    This is what I find it relatively amusing because we both agree feminism is garbage, yet if you were to order how society is, I would be forced to be a feminist since I’d have no reason to feel loyal to that society considering it would have no real people and by default peoplehood wouldn’t deter me from pursuing things only for myself. It’s ironic, isn’t it?

    I see your logic, but I have to raise you a definition: The definition of “people”, specifically “our people”.

    See, we acquired this black population by honest means – conquest and slavery, mostly slavery – and now they represent, for better or worse, and not always for worse, it should be pointed out, a core part of the American population. If anything, they’re more core than lots of white groups.

    So given that here, in America, we have to deal with this – while vitriolic white racism might be good for the Group Identity thing, we’ve not really got that option.

    So I go for the pragmatic route.

    And on that pragmatic route, I think stemming the endless hordes of illegal Hispanic immigration is something much more doable and sensible and more impactful, generally.

    It behooves is to get along with blacks and make sure they live up to their full potential as a group and as individuals, because they’re our fellow Americans.

    Just as it behooves us to not allow in and endless number of Hispanic migrants who have no stake nor interest in our culture.

    So it’s not that I’m some anti-racist ideologue. Call me a pragmatist.

    And on selective immigration – we can buy off the liberals with an actual immigration policy, say, by selecting immigrants based on intelligence, skills and ability to contribute positively to American society. Canada does this, for God’s sake: And if that quasi-Socialist country can have a restrictive immigration policy defined solely in terms of its own interests, and can do things like unilaterally impose visa restrictions on Mexicans, then it should be easy buggers for us.

    That was all.

    Related to communist Romania, you have another irony. While we sent intelligent people to their death for being unequal and undermining the nonsense of the communists,

    Did you people ever believe any of this nonsense, by the way? I got the impression from the Romanians I’ve known that this wasn’t the case. Even the older generation.

    the only people getting promoted were the people who did the right things for the party or for the Securitate. And obviously, just like in America all inventors are African Americans and most murderers are white, the stupidest people in Romania became geniuses. Ta da.

    Romania was proudest of its horde of geniuses.

    And no, my insight doesn’t come from that considering that I’ve been a feel good idiot until an year and a bit ago. It comes from a female trait named vanity. But again, coming from you, it would be hypocritical to tell me I shouldn’t form my worldview based on what suits me the best considering you formed yours based on liking Asian women, right? ;)

    I’m a universalist when it comes to my own interests. When i was told the world was my oyster, I took it to heart.

    I like the the women of the world more or less equally. I view that as my Male birthright.

    By the way, since Trotsky invented the concept of racism and you seem to not mind it that much, why Gorbachev and not Trotsky? :P

    Because racism doesn’t bother me that much – it’s like not liking weather.

    We all need a little Perestroika and a taste of Glasnost from time to time, right?


  599. on October 19, 2010 at 4:53 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Gorbachev, just because I could do something it doesn’t mean I should. There are a few people with principles left in this world and I’d have to break more than one of them to marry someone in order to divorce them, despite having the opportunity to do it. But not having about 15 million dollars on my name isn’t going to stop me from looking in the mirror and not being disgusted at myself. I don’t regard the objective of life to get rich. In a sane world, I wouldn’t even care about career prospects, but today’s society made it stupid for me to have children or a family, so I have to pick the second best thing that would give me fulfillment. Raping a guy in a divorce court wouldn’t do it for me because while having a ton of money to buy Jimmy Choo and Stuart Weitzman shoes, travelling and so on would be fun, at the end of the day, I don’t see life as being about that. I’m probably one of the few atheists in the world that doesn’t see life as about herself alone and about indulging in her own impulses. I want to be able at 80 to look back on my own life and be proud of what I did and leave something behind more than the resentment of a man and his relatives. But that’s just me, I don’t see it as worthy to degrade my character and person for material wealth. In the end, I grew up washing socks by hand and having warm water only in the morning and I didn’t die. This is why I don’t support feminism now – I still believe that things can be changed, even though not through political means. But if in the next years nothing happens, I will have to just give up on supporting anything besides things that are self-serving since right now most of the things that I support are out of principle. To give you a great, but stupid example, I’m against subsidized mass transit, even though as a student, I benefit from it.

    And no, own people isn’t really a flexible definition. On average, people are the most altruistic and would sacrifice the most about people close genetically to them. You can look at haplodiploid bees who share 75% of their DNA with the queen and due to it they raise her children, despite being infertile. I know quite a lot of white American men who said that they’d rather renounce their US citizenship and leave America than fight in the US army to defend America from anything(and these are former patriotic Americans who would have done that). The fact that the government imported another group of people in Sweden and put a Swedish stamp on their ass and passport, it doesn’t mean that Swedes would feel like that about them without being brainwashed by their schooling system and told they are evil every single day if they don’t consider their immigrants as Swedish as them. But you’re wrong about them, Swedes did that only after WW2. France abolished any meaningful definition of French in the 18th century and America in the 19th, not that America had a really solid definition of who an American is after the founding generation. But it still got by until 1865. Swedish women couldn’t even pass their citizenship to their children until 1979. Even now, children born in Sweden don’t automatically become Swedish. And no, the Anglosphere won’t be any different(just like the Roman empire wasn’t or any state that included foreigners in the citizenship base – everyone is willing to be a Roman, American or whatnot when the going is good, but that’s about it). All multiethnic states that don’t have a majority that is willing to opress the others(see Austro-Hungary who was fairly ok internally) are doomed to fail, unless the majority people and the most successful group have no problem being leeched on.

    And peoplehood, just like nationality or patriotism have real meanings, unlike the post-modern construction of them. A people/nation is a group of humans interrelated by blood, culture, religion and usually language. Oh, and I’d like to point out that it is irrelevant how a population was acquired or how long they have been around. It’s still farcical to make your slaves citizens and even more farcical to consider them of the same identity, like they have the same history as you. Basically, Americans, unlike Romanians, internalized the propaganda far better. You actually believe everyone is American and so on, while most Romanians never really believed in communism(and hence I answered your question; most people believed communism is trash, but you’d lose your job and go to jail if you said that; sort of like if you’re not a Marxist on cultural issues in Western Europe). See, here’s another point where we disagree. As long as America remains a proposition nation and so on, I hope that much more Mexicans move there and completely destroy the country, not that you need far more than you already have. And I have no real problem with Americans, just that since progressivism is my enemy, the idea of America, which is inherently progressive, being destroyed would be nice.

    And the only reasons why Canada isn’t as bad as America right now is that they’re far behind you in implementation. They’re still about 80%+ white, they have natural resources and they’re not as in much debt. But they will get there, give them time.

    To conclude, you’re not universalist about your own interests, it’s that you’re self absorbed and you choose everything based on that and then rationalize back. Your only problem with having a nation is that you’d be expected to do some real work besides based on your ‘enlightened’ self-interest. At least this is how I see you, maybe I am wrong. What you do is exactly what the members of the tea parties do. They don’t want a return to 1900 America, which is what would be needed to save the US from financial ruin. Most of them are there, just because they see their own handouts under threat by the expanding base of welfare people(see the retirees). So you just want to keep the party going a little longer. At least this is how I see things, maybe I am wrong.


  600. Gorb,

    Just wanted to say that you were right the other night about my mushy-ness. I should have never exposed my uncertainty and confusion to mistress like that. I could have, and failed to, slam shut the door on any conversations involving my kids, divorce and shit like that. She caught me at a weak moment after I had been up for 48 hours.

    The next time we talk about this stuff, I will be prepared to tell her what the deal is in a way that will preempt the need for any further discussion or questions.


  601. @Sidewinder,

    Look, either be a man and do it or – be a man, and don’t.

    If you’re going to pussify yourself, don’t do it.

    I’m not convinced you’re not totally deluding yourself, but I’m not the one you need to convince. You need to know yourself better. You’re in the danger zone. Danger, Will Robinson!

    Seriously.

    You’re going to fuck it up.

    You want to bed her?

    Make sure she knows *and feels* this: You’re married, you’re not leaving your wife, you can feel the truth of what you briefly share, or will share, or whatever, but that this is it.

    if you don’t know yourself or you vacillate you hand her way, way too much power.

    Frame. You don’t have it. Get it.


  602. on October 19, 2010 at 6:02 pm Gunslingergregi

    What does getting divorced and taking advantage of a dude have to do with marrying a millionaire?

    You said the guy had to have his shit together.

    I was saying you could prob marry a millionaire.

    Just another criteria.

    ”””’Gunslinger, as a side note, famous celebrities are millionaires.””’

    No a millionaire is a millionaire.

    Someone famous doesn’t actually mandatorally have a million dollars to their name.

    Why does it hold some negative connotation for you to marry a millionaire.

    What is the big deal?

    A millionaire is just a person to.


  603. Gorb,

    So what’s her angle? You mentioned before that she’s making different calculatons than me. What do I need to be on guard for?

    What are things that would be tilting my hand towards her?

    I can’t see how I can prevent giving her power. If I bang her, she has power. She already has power in knowing my feelings and participating in several off-the-record meet ups. I think that is just an inherent risk in any affair. I can jump up and down, get serious, raise my voice, and command her not to tell anyone, but what can I do if she does? Not a whole lot. I’m wagering that the best thing to do to mitigate the risk is to shoot straight with the mistress. If she catches me playing her, I’m in deep shit. I’ve got to stay on the same page with her, to the very end of the relationship.


  604. Gunny, RVs point was that she was saying “out of her league” would be getting a famous rich married celebrity to ditch his wife for her.

    You said she could get a millionaire maybe, but her reply meant that you had not really rebutted her point.

    In other words, a famous rich married celebrity, being already probably a millionaire, is more out of her league than a mere millionaire would be (and in fact she had a millionaire propose to her once).


  605. on October 19, 2010 at 7:19 pm Gunslingergregi

    ”””Polymath
    Gunny, RVs point was that she was saying “out of her league” would be getting a famous rich married celebrity to ditch his wife for her.
    ”””’

    Allright I’ll giver her that.

    ”””””(and in fact she had a millionaire propose to her once).”””””’

    That is facinating.

    What makes a woman reject a millionaire?

    Wild shit.

    So now I know a woman who did same thing.

    Plus anouk said she had a millionaire wanting to marry her.

    Plus my first marriage was to a woman who just didn’t want to be rich period.

    Me I was able to retire and didn’t and kept gambling the money.

    Even when I left iraq I could have bought two houses and been retired basically.

    Just really facinating shit that people reject an easy life.

    My woman has no problem not rejecting it.

    Why do some people reject what is in their best interest even according to what they say they want to do with their life?

    Wild stuff.


  606. @Sidewinder,


    I can’t see how I can prevent giving her power. If I bang her, she has power. She already has power in knowing my feelings and participating in several off-the-record meet ups. I think that is just an inherent risk in any affair. I can jump up and down, get serious, raise my voice, and command her not to tell anyone, but what can I do if she does? Not a whole lot. I’m wagering that the best thing to do to mitigate the risk is to shoot straight with the mistress. If she catches me playing her, I’m in deep shit. I’ve got to stay on the same page with her, to the very end of the relationship.

    You’re unbalanced and unfocused. It lets her decide where the relationship goes.

    Where you go – what you do – how you do it – these are things you need to control.

    You’re in the dangerous situation.

    You need to ensure that *she* understand where you are. You need to be able to gauge her feelings, track how she’s behaving, understand where she’s at. You don’t even know what you want.

    This is an affair. You can’t lose yourself in it. It actually disrespects the lover, as well, because you can’t offer her something you can’t actually give her.

    You need to decide what you can give her and give her only that. I’m talking emotionally-time-personally. If you lead her on, you’re fucked.

    And in order to do that, you need to know yourself. And you don’t.

    This is my point.

    I’m not even talking about being found out by your wife. That’s another issue.

    The moment you lose control of your own emotions, your own space, your own head, which most men do, is the moment when she becomes the powerful one in the relationship. And then she will start setting the terms – and you’ll embrace that.

    That’s when you’re fucked. Because you’ll destroy yourself.


  607. Guys, I have a link to a MIT list. A few of the guys got 4 stars. I’m dying to meet craig from the MIT list.


  608. on October 19, 2010 at 8:19 pm David Collard

    You know, Sidewinder, you could apply the Golden Rule and not try to fuck another man’s wife. How would you like it if some guy was trying to cuckold you? Have you considered that some guy might be doing that right now?


  609. “What makes a woman reject a millionaire?”

    Obviously not the money, unless she’s a billionaire. :D


  610. @Sidewinder and @David Collard,

    Yeah, David Collard has a point. You could just not screw around on your wife.

    It *is* an option, you know.


  611. on October 19, 2010 at 9:04 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea gorb like he hasen’t been told that 6 million fucking times.

    What is kind of funny is that the guys are telling another guy not to fuck up his marriage even though he is not happy.

    What would woman be telling another woman who said she wasn’t happy or satisfied in her marriage?

    They would be telling her to get fucking divorced and fuck him over.

    Guys are much easier to make stick to a promise.

    If you get married do not promise monogamy it is too much to give up and not necesary.


  612. on October 19, 2010 at 9:06 pm David Collard

    Sidewinder

    You are living in a French Farce. Do you know how this would end, if it were a play or film? A cruel comedy? Your “mistress” will refuse you, sending you trotting home frustrated. You come home to your loving wife unexpectedly, only to find her being rogered by your “mistress’s” husband.

    The audience dissolves in laughter.


  613. Sidewinder,
    I’ve never had an affair, but if I did, I personally would rather have it be a lot more fucking and a lot less talking than the affair you’re having.

    [Editor: lol. Now that's my kind of mistress.]


  614. on October 19, 2010 at 9:11 pm Gunslingergregi

    If you want to retain some honor.

    Talk to your wife about that you want to fuck this bitch.

    Then listen to what she says.

    If you feel like you just got to get the bitch.

    Get your wife to agree to the shit.

    If she doesn’t and you still feel the need to fuck the ho.

    Then divorce your wife and go fuck her.


  615. @CR
    Guys will still be lining up to marry this woman.

    [Editor: If guys = betas, yes. Anyhow, even the hand of a beta in marriage is doubtful. Owen has a publicly accessible archive of her cock loving ways. That's a bit different than a run of the mill slut who can conceivably hide her past from betas less experienced in the ways of sniffing out sluttery.]

    The Internet does change the game.

    But she’ll still score some beta. The difference is that *she* won’t like this being her only choice.

    A perfectly acceptable alternative would be to go all the way and porn-star herself up. Then she can snag some Alpha. But she’ll have to adjust her sensibilities and accept a little bit of wonkiness in lifestyle; monogamy is likely off the menu.

    But on the other hand, maybe it won’t be such an adjustment for her.


  616. @Laura, @Sidewinder,

    Laura said it.


  617. @Guns @Sidewinder,

    Getting divorced because you feel a crushing urge to fuck someone else is insanely immature.

    Before you prudes get on my case for being immature in advocating this (“A Mature Man Will Keep His Pants Zipped Because He’s Serious About His Family Values!”), I’d like to point out:

    If Sidewinder goes and gets laid somewhere else, comes home and is a dutiful husband and is a husband to his wife, and they have children, it’s at least partly childish and irresponsible on the part of the wife to immediately get into a huff and go file for divorce.

    It’s the height of severe prudery. Even if a wife cheats on her husband, a husband who actually values his wife will *consider* what has happened, in *context*, and act appropriately.

    Moral absolutism is a disease and the vice of those without recourse to actual thought.

    The French have this worked out. Not that there’s any miracle of sanity over there, but you take each situation as it comes.

    On the other hand, there’s a lot more fucking involved in an actual French relationship, married or not. ??

    And your wife may be one of these moral absolutists. In which case, she’ll ream you three new holes and stuff two of them with your balls while you bleed out the third.

    Consider.


  618. I love to suck big, hard dick and fuck the hard, firm ass of a young male. You know, Roissy’s faggot blog for losers who can’t score with females should be turned into a gay blog for guys who love to fuck other guys. Just a thought.


  619. rebelliousvanilla,

    My disagreement with you is over what sorts of romantic relationships are even possible for some women and some men. Again, this is naivete coming from the fingers of an apparently hot young woman:

    Any woman can find a sucker to pay for the children of another man. All it takes is lying. Most men wouldn’t ask for a paternity test and if they would, you’re bad at girl game if you can’t get him to cave on that.

    Some women are so unappealing that they have a hard time getting married at all period. That’s reality.

    Some women can’t get married to any guy capable and willing to be a good provider. Look at crime rates, divorce rates, unemployment rates by various categories and it is clear that for some slices of society the little house with the picket fence is out of reach.

    Marriage is now such a serious risk for men (especially in states like California where a guy can be made so poor as to be homeless by a divorce settlement) that a substantial fraction of all guys want no part in it. So women have a smaller pool from which to draw. That’s reality.

    Even if less attractive women were willing to lower their sights (and many aren’t willing) I would argue this isn’t even rational. People talk a lot about the rise in illegitimate births. But if those women getting knocked up are getting knocked up by smarter and better looking men than they can hope to marry then the effect might even be eugenic.

    I know a woman who gave up trying to find a suitable guy. So she went got herself picked up a successful and very good looking guy in a bar for a one night stand, got herself pregnant by him, and raised the daughter by herself. The daughter is pretty and went to college.


  620. RV farrumps, “Nicole, I suggest that from now on when you comment on this blog, you bring your high IQ with you because your comments are light on the insight and heavy on the whining and well, taking jabs at me is a fairly unintelligent thing. I’d also like to point out to you that someone with an IQ over 142, which is something you’d need to be smarter than 996 out of 1000 ethnic Scandinavians”

    So now we know you can add and subtract, but…

    “isn’t having website design as a source of employment.”

    I am not anyone’s employee, little girl.

    Well, unless you count myself. I am my own asshole boss.

    “Someone that intelligent would be able to comprehend that as a black woman in her 40s that is overweight, bitter and possesses a quite unpleasant personality isn’t going to attract men that are willing to commit to her.”

    …and yet, since I am neither unpleasant nor bitter, I attracted two, one of whom is still committed, despite having aged out.

    What will you have to offer a man when you are 40?

    What will you have to offer any man who doesn’t want to or can’t have sex with you.

    You should think about that before you hit the wall.

    “Your ridiculous lack of entitlement is sort of amusing though.”

    It would not be so ridiculous to you if you had ever had a good ass whooping from your dad.

    “So let’s see, successful men should be selected for their success and providing capacity, but they should disregard age and looks altogether, right?”

    Uh…Where are you taking this from?

    “That’s the equivalent of expecting women to go for losers with no prospects and social skills.”

    Yes, that would be just as ridiculous as the corn you just pulled out of your ass.

    “What I tried to explain to you is fairly simple, actually – on a relative basis, you can improve your marriage prospects by doing what I said.”

    No, doing what you said won be not one, but two guys who, after more than a year, decided to tell me that they couldn’t have a “serious relationship” with me because I’m not Jewish.

    One, I made wait a year. The other, six months.

    The two marriages I had were after SNL’s.

    You’re blind.

    …or maybe you just have so much banked on your looks that you don’t understand that some men in the world are just not willing to overlook the crazy to get to the cooch.

    You should know that when I was your age, I wasn’t fat.

    …and when I was that and a newly single mother of a three year old, I still managed to score a police officer of some rank.

    Skinny women don’t have a monopoly on beauty or femininity. It’s helpful to be skinny if you are feminine and have a nice face, but being fat doesn’t mean that no man on earth can love you.

    It just means you have to be twice as good to get half the respect.

    I’m used to that.

    …but get this through your thick skull: men who wait for sex from non virgins are pussies. Deep down, if a man waits beyond his own feeling that the time is right, or keeps trying after being rebuffed, something in him stinks of female secretions.

    So if you think you are catching a prize for getting a man to deny his own appetites in order to put a ring on you, you are wrong. You are just catching an emasculated punk.

    Ugly women can’t afford to date punks. We have to date guys who can handle not being socially rewarded as much for dating us as for dating a hot chick.

    Call it “asshole provider game”. If a guy doesn’t want us NOW, he doesn’t want us. Time to jump ship and find a guy who does.

    Pussies jump through hoops for hot chicks. They just fail ugly chicks.

    Got it?

    “This won’t put you in the front of the line, like you seem to think that you’re entitled to.”

    I don’t feel entitled to anything. In reality though, I am entitled to what the universe brings me.

    The universe does not bring me plumbers, though I wouldn’t mind if it did. It brings me mostly engineers, officers, lawyers, doctors, professors, and various intellectuals since that is my normal peer group, and because I am a classy, articulate, feminine lady.

    I choose to steer clear of the lawyers and doctors, as well as some other white collar types because they are mostly effeminate…and ugly girls who are feminine, don’t do well with pussies.

    “It will just mean that a man that would give you the time of day would commit to you. And if you’re so invisible that men don’t notice you, it would be on you to make them do it. But again, I don’t see why any man would marry a woman who can’t even give him children anymore and if she would be able to, not keep them healthy and that would feed them trash.”

    I assure you that the Death Star is fully operational.

    I love being Black. :-)

    You just don’t know how wonderful it is to be me since I went natural. I didn’t get so much as a cold for three years until last week when I somehow caught a flu, but it just felt like a cold because I’m just that strong.

    Now I see how my grandparents could work in the hot sun all day and still have the energy to make 13 kids and raise 5 more.

    My daughter kicked the toughest guy in her class’s ass for threatening to start a rumor that she did sexual things with one of her classmates. She hit him twice and left him bleeding and crying for his mommy.

    …and outscores everyone in her class in mathematics and science. She got 100 in math, both the class grade and the exam.

    I bet her IQ is even higher than mine. Her other tests indicate such.

    Plus, she’s being raised with gender, race, and political realism. She thinks about what she wants in a man, and also has a severe aversion to pussy.

    I am grateful for what I have. You should be grateful for what you have too, and work on getting some stuff that will outlast your looks.


  621. Randall says, “Even if less attractive women were willing to lower their sights (and many aren’t willing) I would argue this isn’t even rational. People talk a lot about the rise in illegitimate births. But if those women getting knocked up are getting knocked up by smarter and better looking men than they can hope to marry then the effect might even be eugenic.”

    …but what standards are ugly women supposed to lower?

    Is a woman with upper middle class parents who was raised to be a dignified, feminine woman, supposed to marry a plumber (I feel awful that this was used as an example of loserey or substandard compared to what might be white collar mangina) just because she’s Black and statistically, Black women (the statistics not taking into account things like temperament and notch count) are less likely to be married? or is it that she’s supposed to shoot only for punks who will wait for sex? or is it that she shouldn’t date a guy who is handsome? or that she shouldn’t date guys who are charismatic?

    How can someone, without knowing the individual, decide which of their standards are too high? or if the high standard is worth the price of fewer choices?

    The type of guys I like are rare, so I dealt with the possibility that I would grow old alone, back when I realized I was some kind of freak of nature.

    My complaint is not that there are few guys for me. It’s just that in general, feminine but average and ugly women are given crappy advice by hot, formerly hot, and dykishly masculine women who don’t know what we have to deal with.

    An ugly girl’s virtue is worthless outside of a patriarchal culture. Utterly worthless.

    So the only guys in the west who will value feminine ugly women are the few here and there who are from highly patriarchal families or cultures. They must be invested enough in their beliefs to override fear of repercussions from feminists and misery loving mangina and drones.

    …and they will wait for a virgin, but not for a slut or otherwise previously used woman.

    I think what might be bothering RV is that a dominant man with a patriarchal background would view her as damaged goods regardless of her looks.

    It’s okay. She’s still hot. Western betas will still wait for her. A Middle Eastern guy might even pay her for sex.


  622. “I dealt with the possibility that I would grow old alone”
    Why marry if living alone seems to be a better choice anyway?

    Funny you guys based everything on looks, which from my experience isn’t that important at all…


  623. I meant most things, in terms of marriageability.


  624. Bling, looks haven’t been the be-all and end-all in my experience or observation of patriarchal families either. However, western culture is full of feminized, empty men and masculine, empty women.

    These despisers of life and pleasure should be avoided at all costs, not catered to or manipulated to get a worthless document that means nothing coming from them.

    Think of the line from _Fight_Club_ about wanting to shoot the panda who won’t fuck to save its species. This is how I feel about most western men.

    PUA’s are on the right track, because at least they’re growing a pair and not sitting around waiting for the 10-fairy to teleport a hottie around their dicks.

    However, guys who think it’s alpha to downgrade a woman’s overall value based on her looks, especially if she’s feminine and well groomed, have no mother. I’d also highly doubt there dad did much of a job of explaining the realities of life.

    …and that’s the bit that saddens me about all this.

    A man with no mother can’t possibly see the value of a woman he doesn’t want to have sex with…and will resent the women he does want to have sex with if they don’t fit his one eyed electric mother’s ideal.

    American women dropped the ball big time. However, I have no room for pity in my selection process. I don’t owe broken my genes. I’m not going to twist myself into a frigid shadow illusion of a woman who is not made of my people, and by following whose example, I can only expect to become an empty pseudoman.

    I am a woman. If a man can’t recognize at least that, then he is someone I don’t need in my life, and I feel as “better off alone” without him as he does without me.

    My luck though, the whole world isn’t screwed that way, and not even every guy in America is messed up. It’s just that to find the not messed up guys, women have to not behave like messed up women.

    Once you’ve crossed over, unless you’re hot enough to get away with being a lying bitch, be the best slut you can be, because the best men don’t believe the lie.

    Never give yourself to someone who doesn’t understand that you’re a slut or pretends you’re not ugly to the world, even if he values you. If he plays those kinds of mental games with himself, he won’t be able to do the part of his job that is protecting you from emotional predators and vampires.


  625. Bling bing, funny that you respond to a quip from Nicole and then continue with “Funny you guys…”

    And no. Not everything is based on looks. It is important, and your experience is not consequential or translatable. Once you have a dick talk to me about your experience. Sex for you women essentially comes down to spreading and lube (which can be easily supplied if mother nature does not provide). It is more complicated for men. If there is a perception that there is no attraction, you can whisper sweet nothings to a dick, but you may not still persuade it. It is not particularly my experience, since I always knew what stimulus is required, but google for erectile dysfunction to get the picture.

    It is biology, my dear, and there is nothing you can do about it, except accept it and act accordingly.

    Looks for women selecting men are not as important. In that you are right.

    As for what factors are relevant to men for a LTR/marriage… beside looks (and it does not mean that men would tend to marry women as trophy prop (just a small minority)–they are more interested in a potential of the women genes to keep her looks “fresh” for a long period of time and gladly trade a 9 with a fast fading potential for a 7 that has some promise to stay pretty when after 40+ age, the figures here being an example).

    So what else? Voice–the “right” timbre of the vocal chord, the harmonics and the resulting envelope can be extremely sexy. It depends on prefs of a particular male, for me upper alto range is very attractive.

    Health–skin, hair… everything that indicates a good health is important.

    Last, but not the least is personality, and behavioral patterns.

    One of the most important factors that man is looking for in a LTR (I tuck marriage under that category as well) is loyalty. Translated–a low potential that your woman will screw you up, or engage in extramarital affairs. A slutty woman is not considered a good marriage material. No matter how you want to rationalize it that it is inconsequential, as a man, I can tell you that it is very relevant. I am willing to have my woman’s back, if I have a degree of a certainty that my woman would reciprocate in kind. IOW, there are days with a good weather and days with a bad weather. I want my woman to be able to function in both, because I can do the same and it is a tacit part of my side of contract.

    I won’t tolerate any bouts of irrational bitchy behavior. Though I do understand that it is unavoidable because of the natural mood swings that are part and parcel of any woman mental and behavioral map, I think that a reasonably intelligent woman should be able to recognize these instances when pointed out to her and accept the criticism and adjust accordingly. By the same token, I am open to a rational criticism from her side when warranted. We are all fallible humans, and I have enough self-respect not to construe a constructive criticism as an “ad hominem”. Emphasis on “constructive”. I would feel no need to engage in an “ad feminem”, naturally, if the ROE are agreed to and reciprocal.

    My woman would have several siblings, because her level of entitlement would be lower, as well she would be better prepared for a family life, and have some comprehension of a family budgeting. She would be able to make a shopping lists and follow them without excessive deviations.

    She would also know how to cook, or have an affinity to it. I can teach her if necessary.

    She would have a hobby (“let’s party” is not a hobby in my book).

    She would have an intellectual curiosity. The reason is not to be mutually indulging in long winded discussions, rather a degree of compatibility.

    I prefer a theist woman, but it is not a prerequisite. Her theism is more philosophical than religious based.

    As you can see, I have a set of quite minimalist requirements, that may offset a lack of looks to some degree. :-)


  626. @RV: And the only reasons why Canada isn’t as bad as America right now is that they’re far behind you in implementation.

    Bingo.

    @ Collard: You know, Sidewinder, you could apply the Golden Rule and not try to fuck another man’s wife.

    Weak morals and weak character generally go together.

    @ Laura: I’ve never had an affair, but if I did, I personally would rather have it be a lot more fucking and a lot less talking than the affair you’re having.

    No hyperbole, this is one of the best comments in the history of this blog. It’s up there with some of Thursday’s bon mots.


  627. @Gorbachev on the allegedly abundant French sex life

    Apparently it’s (at least partially) a myth! http://www.mancouch.com/732868755/sacre-bleu-the-french-actually-have-miserable-sex-lives/
    *snickering ensues*


  628. ” And the only reasons why Canada isn’t as bad as America right now is that they’re far behind you in implementation.”

    No, it’s because canada is colder. And polar bears are white.


  629. What will you have to offer any man who doesn’t want to or can’t have sex with you.

    Enough.


  630. I ask, “What will you have to offer any man who doesn’t want to or can’t have sex with you.”

    Polymath replies, “Enough.”

    I sincerely hope she does. She seems to have potential, as it is rare to find women who actually have something important to discuss. She will have to learn though, that the contempt she feels for betas and omegas makes them no less dangerous.

    She needs to know the ugly girl side not just so she can avoid giving bad advice to her friends, if she’s an alpha female of her social sphere. She needs to know because all women become ugly eventually.

    Even as a young woman, she needs to select men who are steady enough to love her when she is ugly. If not, she should prepare herself for a life of serial monogamy, or a good long well preserved stretch that will end when she’s between 30 and 40, and try not to get financially screwed…start saving money in an account under a relative’s name.

    My friend and femininity coach caught a bad one when she was young, but she had the smarts to put almost all the money he gave her in the bank, and pretended to like jewelry more than she actually does.

    Almost 20 years later, she is still partly living off the dough he spent on her before he thought he could do better. She was a hot blonde. Her expiration date was at about 37.


  631. Bling bing, You are putting up a straw man here:

    Funny you guys based everything on looks, which from my experience isn’t that important at all…

    You’ve got to distinguish two separate decisions:

    – Who to fuck?

    – Who to marry?

    There’s a continuum between them including relationships of varying lengths. One should apply (and many guys here do apply) different criteria for each.

    A lot of arguments here are between people who are talking past each other because they aren’t defining just for what purpose a woman is being assessed. One person is offering preferences about one night stands while the other is offering preferences for what one should look for for an LTR.

    I’ve come to develop a taste for many qualities in women:

    – great cooks. Didn’t appreciate how good this can be until had an LTR with a great cook. She’s still a friend and she is still better than even excellent restaurants at putting good food on the table.

    – calm fairly happy mind. A manic depressive girlfriend taught me just how bad the mood swings can get. Ditto female college roommates. So have perpetually unhappy women whose unhappiness they hide until you I’ve emotionally bonded with them. There was a time I was too young and naive to know to dump such a woman fast. I actually thought I could help her and that such problems are solvable.

    – conscientiousness. She’s capable of being an asset to the degree she has this trait.

    – Curiosity about science, history, or anything important. This is very rare, especially when it comes with a strong dose of realism. I’m not talking about ideologues who go to school to study their secular theology in sociology or education classes.
    To read a woman like RV above discussing historical events in a politically incorrect way like it is just off the top of her head is so incredibly rare. While I find fault in some of her arguments she’s got promise if she sticks with her intellectual development.

    – The willingness to accept their limitations and not demand respect that is unearned. The worst women intellectually are the ones who want a smart and learned guy to treat them like mental equals even though they aren’t. I had a (visually stunning) girlfriend who wanted me to treat her like an intellectual equal even though she made little effort to develop her mind. She wasn’t all that much less intelligent than me but she had no intellectual inclination. Yet her self image was that she was my equal. We used to argue about it. But that was back before I understood as much about how to handle women.

    These are just some of the traits I notice off the top of my head. One of my female roommates some years back told me I’m very picky about women. True. I’ve become even more picky as I’ve learned more about traits that matter.


  632. Randall Parker, yea, I would say that RV’s political incorrectness is way sexier than her looks. :-)

    At least to us politically incorrect men.

    One quip, though, as is typical to many women that post here, they don’t know how to discuss things concisely. Nicole and Bling Bing have the same trait, it is like a faucet that you can’t never turn off close enough. Word economy, that is what I miss. Even men here… some typical example… yea, that’s hard! :-) Gorby!

    Dana, on the other hand, does not bother with a razor to trim excess, she has a big fucking machete! :-)


  633. on October 21, 2010 at 1:37 am Gunslingergregi

    Yea vanilla I hammered the shit out of some of your stuff to make you solidify it. Which hell I wish someone would have hammered the fuck out of me when I had enough to retire and didn’t. I just hammered myself but it wasn’t enough.

    I kept telling myself go the fuck home.

    Quit the fucking job and go set up your shit.

    Quit the fucking job and go set up your shit.

    Quit the fucking job and go set up your shit.

    Quit the fucking job and go set up your shit.

    But I didn’t.

    Now I am like fuck this I don’t feel like putting in any more effort take some pills and go to sleep.

    Starting to change to might be an adventure to give it a go.


  634. Sorry about that, Morsellaux. Sometimes it’s tough for me to choose between precision and concision.

    On the internet, lacking tone of voice, many things can be misinterpreted, so I probably too often choose precision.


  635. Well, Nicole, at least I am glad you are capable of doing it, as your post above indicates! :-)


  636. on October 21, 2010 at 7:03 am rebelliousvanilla

    Randall, I agree with your list. If I had to choose a woman to marry as a man, I’d have most of those things on my list. What I noticed is that the stupider a woman is, the more she expects the mental equality thing. For example, I have no trouble admitting that men of the same ethnic group have a slightly higher average IQ and a flatter IQ distribution, which would normally make them have WAY MORE representants in the really intelligent group. I don’t mind admitting this, because I don’t have an inferiority complex. Heck, the men I find fascinating are more intelligent than me, usually, so I actually like this arrangement quite a bit. lol

    And I agree, raising a child like that is rational provided society is going to foot the bill. If she was forced to internalize all the costs of having an out of wedlock pregnancy, she would have been forced to lower her standards. And yes, I suppose some women are that ugly, but I don’t know any woman who is that ugly and never saw one. And here I include only the women who were born to be that ugly – all the obese fatties, for example, are like that by their own volition and yes, I suppose that as a man, you’d rather jerk yourself off with sandpaper than have sex with one or be around one. I really don’t see how what you said is against what I said. I just made a point that a woman can increase her relative position in the marriage market by doing those things.

    Nicole, yes, if an upper middle class woman is ugly, she will have to marry down. And it has less to do with her being black because according to a study done with speed dating, men are willing to date women from all ethnic groups and women are those less likely to date outside their group. And black women were the least likely to do it. The marriage rate for black women is that low for various reasons – black men being in jail, black women being more successful in society than black men and hence due to hypergamy you won’t really find more men higher than you inside your ethnic group and the refusal to date outside of their ethnic group. Also, high quality black men can and sometimes do marry non-black women. It’s just life. But what you talk about is having the stupid “I can have it all” mentality. Yes, ugly, even upper middle class women won’t marry a handsome or charimsatic guy. Just like poor losers with no money won’t really marry supermodels. Welcome to reality.

    And it’s simple. If someone is single, the standards are too high. It’s like in business – if something doesn’t sell, the price is too high. So, just like how I can’t decide if the price of bread is too high, I can’t decide if a person’s standards are too high either. “The market” does that. What you basically propose is the economic equivalent of price controls and as everyone knows, price controls create a shortage of supply. In the dating world for a woman, fixed standards that are higher than her worth leads to a higher demand than the supply and hence she will be single. Especially if this is done by women as a group, which is the case, since most women have the same entitled attitude you have.

    Oh, and I hardly care about idiotic Muslim men. I’d rather be celibate for the rest of my life than allow one of those filthy idiots touch me, even though, quite amusingly, they’re relatively fond of me too because of my social views.

    Related to your other post, while we know now that I can add and substract, we know you can’t. And self-employment is employment. I suppose your understanding of etimology isn’t that brilliant either. And to correct Polymath’s understatement, the correct form is plenty, not enough. For example, he didn’t have sex with me and we will never have sex because of various reasons. This doesn’t really stop us from enjoying certain things together. I won’t really get into it, but I have quite a list of things that are unrelated to sex that men appreciate. I wrote a part of it above – but I suppose reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit.

    Still, getting to the you’re not Jewish part. You were dumb enough to not figure it out before dating them? NICE! I could have told you that they’re unlikely to commit without dating a Jew in my whole life and that they’d be a time waste if you want marriage.

    And I don’t do the cockblocking thing. Making a hypothetical case in which I’m virgin and looking for a husband – I wouldn’t need more than three months to figure out if a man is suited for me or not. I also am relatively amusing by the fact that a man denying his own impulses would make him a punk, but not when it comes to not finding fat women attractive! That’s a place where he should deny his impulses.

    By the way, I’m cracking up at how you brand yourself as feminine, yet you raised your daughter to punch people. Yep, she inherited your femininity, I bet. LOL. And I do know what it means to eat natural food since that’s what I do. And you’re doing a horrible job on the precision, so you should rather go for concision – maybe your aptitudes there are better.

    Gunslinger, it’s simple. The importance of moral integrity for me is bigger than the importance of getting rich fast. I mean, I do curse my parents sometimes for raising me like this since I’d prefer a 5000 sq feet house over my 150 sq feet room and I’d prefer a Porsche over mass transit, but that’s life. I actually dislike this part about myself – I’d like being a sociopathic mercenary. Funny enough, I wouldn’t have even needed a lawyer for a divorce since I could have had half his stuff on my name on our wedding day. But I think I could have a comfortable life without marrying into it. So the trade off really wasn’t that good.


  637. Okay, “plenty”, I stand corrected. :)


  638. So basically what you’re saying, RV, is that people shouldn’t have sex with each other because you don’t think they should. You’ve provided no rational basis for your arguments.

    If a woman can and does attract whatever kind of men she prefers for a commitment then obviously her standards are not too high.

    She should not deny her “impulses”, nor should the man of her dreams deny his. They should do the damned thing and not worry about whether or not the statistics say that it’s likely for them to be attracted to each other.

    Your dislike of fat women getting something that you don’t have, doesn’t mean that no fat women can or should have something that you don’t have.

    Some of us beat the odds because we’re special.

    Since one day you will be special too, you should set aside your desire to one-up someone who is older than you, and was, frankly more beautiful than you at the same age, and try to understand the lesson.

    That is that statistics are not individuals, and you’ve got some nerve telling someone who’s earned their stripes what they do and don’t deserve.


  639. on October 21, 2010 at 1:16 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Nicole, you’re not making much sense. I think I advised you to bring your super high smarter than 966 out of 1000 Swedes IQ when you comment. The only eloquent part of your post was that sentence in which you showed that you’re unable to grasp statistics.

    Still, your post amused me in two ways(besides the lack of sense):
    1)you think that you’re special; you’re special, just like everybody else
    2)you think you looked better than I do, despite having no idea how I look like. Since you’re so great at knowing how I look like, I’d like to know where I have a temporary tattoo. :P


  640. RV, so the photos you post are not of yourself?

    My bad. Well, I was more beautiful than the women in the photos you post. Some would say I still am, but just fatter. They’re Black of course.

    Why don’t you post photos of yourself?

    I have photos of myself at your age on my old website. You can go and check for yourself.

    Anyway, to the point, I understand statistics. I just don’t think women who can and do attract successful, dominant men should refuse relationships with them so as not to make you feel less insecure. That would be stupid.

    What you view as ugly is not ugly. A young, fit, feminine Black (or otherwise socially or ethnically inconvenient in the west) girl with curves in all the right places, beautiful eyes, clear skin, a stunning smile, proportional features, and good grooming and manners is not actually ugly, just socially ugly for Americans and some other westerners.

    No red blooded man would refuse to shag her if they had the chance, and she has no problem securing a commitment from men who don’t feel a need to refuse for their own cultural preservation reasons.

    Your womanly ideas about hierarchy have nothing to do with what men like. Men like what they like independently of your criteria unless they are pussies or purposefully pussify/beta-ize themselves for basically political reasons.

    Men who are above that give not a rat’s patootie what you think should be.

    However, since there are so many pussies in the west nowadays, a girl like I was gets told constantly by girls like you and their manginas, that she is ugly. If she’s smart, she doesn’t play a game in which she is a loser by default, and sticks with men who aren’t in that pussy continuum of letting women decide who is hot or not.

    That’s one issue. Beauty is not relative. It is not concealed by a barrage of media and female bucket crabbing. The best you can hope to do to put down your competitors is convince them to objectively uglify themselves, which can happen, but not usually before the age of at least 23.

    The other issue is that for women who are objectively ugly or middling, most of what she has to offer appearance wise is going to revolve around her femininity. For both her and the socially ugly woman, those displays should not be false advertisement.

    Since there is no special social payoff, there had better be some personal perks or it just pisses a guy who isn’t a pussy off, instead of increasing her value.

    The side issue is that you won’t be young forever.

    When you’re my age and still able to pull successful, dominant men who want to buy you things, take you places, and you have to turn others with just paper success and bank alphatude down because they wreak of poon from within, then you will understand what I’m trying to tell you.

    As it is, I fear that when you’re my age, you’ll be somewhere wondering why the pussy you can manipulate by refusing sex doesn’t just get his thing on the side, but actually replaces you with a younger model.

    I am special. Your saying not does nothing to change the reality.

    …just like girls like you saying I was ugly when I was young did nothing to change the reality. It just meant that I needed to avoid guys who believed that social status made women more beautiful or ugly than they actually are: pussies.


  641. Dangit… that should be, “I just don’t think women who can and do attract successful, dominant men should refuse relationships with them so as to make you feel less insecure.”

    Blame the vodka. I should not walk, drink, and post on the same night.


  642. Nicole

    RV, so the photos you post are not of yourself?
    Why don’t you post photos of yourself?

    ..we know
    how this
    always ends

    I have photos of myself at your age on my old website. You can go and check for yourself.

    fwiw you may want to check first to see if your State laws permit posting photos of minors


  643. on October 21, 2010 at 5:02 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Nicole, it’s amusing that you can tell how exactly my features are based on tiny Gravatars. And I didn’t know someone can do two straw men in a single blog post of under 500 words. One being related to the gravatars and the other one being about me saying that women shouldn’t have relationships with successful, dominant men. You were the ones whining about them not caring about you.

    And my ideas are correct about what men want in long term relationships from women. And I also do know what men want for shagging. For example, there are cross-cultural studies done that men prefer fairer women regardless of their culture. Men also prefer longer hair regardless of culture. Also, the preference for blondes isn’t really an artificial construction. Someone with your IQ should know that blondes have higher levels of estrogen, which is something men are fond of. Anyway, I won’t really shatter your world of illusions anymore. The reason why I don’t post pictures of myself in full size around is because I write certain things online and prefer to not associate clearly with my identity. That’s one of the nice little things about today’s world, I suppose. It’s a similar reason for which Gorbachev doesn’t really disclose his identity. When he will write his full name here and his employer, I will probably be able to post pictures of myself in full size too. A future employer won’t be able to tell me off because of a tiny thumbnail size picture considering I can deny identity fairly easily. Harder to do that with normal pictures.

    Firepower, it’s nice to see you PMS everywhere like this. It’s kind of amusing how someone like you goes from ass kissing to hating someone for being denied pictures. As I said on another post of Roissy, you make that Seavey dude seem like a natural born alpha. I’d like to thank you though, you feed my vanity by showing how important I am for you and how I crushed your little beta ego. :)


  644. RV, I realized after awhile that a fair proportion of Roissy’s actual insults were doing me a better service than people who told me half truths or blind lies because of my social adeptness (likely an adaptation born of being “ugly”) or emotional connection to them. You must understand that by informing you of the ugly truth, I am not insulting you.

    I’m starting to feel like Mojo Jojo here, explaining the same thing repeatedly, in the hopes that at some point you’d be able to get it, but I’m beginning to understand why you can’t.

    Suffice to say that each and every time I catch you lying to women about their options, I will counter them with the truth, and I will not argue with you about it.

    I will argue with men who believe that the penis causes some sort of mental affliction in which they don’t know when the time is right even though they are leading the relationship.

    I will even argue with men about whether or not their personal experiences of losing interest in women after the sex had more to do with the woman showing the wrong kind of dirtiness or “the deer jumping on the spear” than the fact that sex was had.

    I will argue with men who have waited for sex, and believe that this is what raised their girlfriend or wife’s value in their eyes, that they lead the relationship in a waiting direction because of their morals or indicating those to her…or they got punked by someone who is probably still jerking them around.

    I will not argue about what men want with a girl who thinks she can manipulate quality (read balanced dominant and stable) men by refusing sex. This is a girl who has never encountered one who was attracted enough to her to follow through.

    Making him wait is what I tell girls to do who want to catch a western feminized beta. Being a girl and not dating girls is what I tell girls to do who want to keep the attention of a man who never gets caught, but instead does the catching: patriarchal betas and philanthropic alphas.


  645. Morsellaux,

    I think RV is hiding her full face and talking dirty about history, the evils of feminism, HBD realism, and the like so that we lust for her mind. She wants to get off from giving us hard-ons for her thoughts. She’s probably masturbating while reading our responses.


  646. RV,

    I’m mostly bored by dumber people in general. If I have to deal with them too much I also feel acutely frustrated. If I read the news or watch talking heads on TV I’m also frustrated. So much stupidity. So many wrong decisions. So much confidence that wrong decisions are right on the part of people who think they actually know what they are talking about. Leftie humanities types with minimal quantitative skills are the worst. They dream up nightmares and think they can create utopia.

    When I’m leading a team with a minimal IQ of 120 for all members I’m mildly satisfied. If I’m working with people with 130+ IQs it actually gets fun and I don’t have to provide detailed explanations.

    Practical advice: wait several years to reproduce and then use genetic testing of embryos to select for smart kids. That will become possible in the next 10 years. The costs of DNA sequencing have fallen so far so fast that the knowledge of which genetic variants to select for is coming in the next 10 years. Then smart people will be able to reliably have smart kids and that’ll make parenthood a lot more satisfying for smart people.


  647. It is probably true about blondes and oestrogen. That they have higher levels. As they age, they tend to get darker. Maybe due to oestrogen levels declining.

    Higher oestrogen probably lowers visuospatial ability and intelligence, which would explain the dumb blonde thing.

    I have known some smart blondes, but they do seem to be relatively rare.


  648. You guys seem afraid to even mention red-heads. I suppose they are an acquired taste. I mean, there will be violence. She will hit on you without much warning. Not that she can help it. Then you will trap her arms an slam her to the wall. Then you will smell her love. She cannot help that either.


  649. Randall, the hard on would fade if you found out she was actually male or a fattie or future fattie whose real beef with me is that she wants White guys to be trapped with White women no matter how disgusting they look or behave.

    I stick in her craw.

    Despite the statistics and surveys, I attract successful, dominant, European men by just not being a stupid bitch.

    They’re not blind, and they’re not liars. They just know the value of “hot”, and it’s about $50-100 per hour.

    The number she’ll attract will certainly be higher than mine, but if she has a thousand and I just have one, that makes her furious for some reason.

    I feel kind of like Jews here do sometimes. All I want is this tiny scrap of land while the Arabs have the whole rest of the region, but I’m not allowed to have my little bit in peace. Someone is always yelling about why I shouldn’t have anything.


  650. I’d agree with what I think Nicole is saying about how men with options aren’t impressed by hotties who make them wait as a way to manipulate their value.

    The stupidest book ever written was “The Rules”.

    I haven’t been paying attention to this thread: has anyone here seriously advocated that men like women better who make them wait themselves (instead of having made other men wait)?

    I thought Roissy was only condemning women who’d already been sluts with OTHER men. I fully expect even virgins to go to bed with me ASAP and won’t like them better if they delay me myself (as opposed to other guys).

    The only thing that matters to the guy is what she looks and feels and smellls/tastes like when she is in bed – whether that is on the first night or after 16 weeks.

    Last night a strange intellectual type decided that she was going back to my place after a second date that she practically forced on me. She must have testosterone in her system.

    She was a 6.5 to me in bed (I am simply not attracted to women who weigh less than 145 lbs and aren’t at least 5’8″). I didn’t want intercourse. I don’t want to date her anymore. She pulled a blanket off me while we slept and that is a relationship killer.

    But this non-willingness has got nothing to do with her having moved so fast. A relatiionship can last longer only because a man is still waiting to see what the woman looks like without clothes.

    It may be true that it is easier to end a relationship with a woman who had sex with a man early on – but I can assure you that there are plenty of men trapped in relationships where the woman delayed the sex long enough to make him feel “attached”…where the sex wasn’t so great…and the man didn’t know how to extract himself from the relationship at that point.


  651. Rum,
    My mom’s a redhead and she told me when she was younger that boys her own age didn’t always like her, but older men like some of her friend’s fathers did. My sister law is also a redhead and she always dated significantly older men. It might be an acquired taste. Redheads aren’t always the prettiest, but they seem to have good personalities.


  652. on October 22, 2010 at 11:27 am rebelliousvanilla

    Nicole, I’m fairly bored of your mumbo jumbo so I gave it a pass. I’d like to point out, I have no problem with white men fucking other women since they’re not the ones giving birth to the next generation. Especially since the ones that do go for nonwhite women are pretty much the trash, unless the women are NE Asian, which are the only real competition I can have. Black women being a competition for me in the dating world is sort of amusing, actually. Sort of like a paraplegic person being a better dancer.

    David, I’m unsure about blondes actually being dumber. It’s just that people pay more attention to blondes so they stand out. Usually women are dumber. Statistically, blondes must actually be more intelligent than other women.


  653. RV,
    Blondes probably got their reputation for being dumber because of bleached blondes.


  654. RV, when White (American) men date out, as opposed to White women, the partners are usually equal or better quality than they’d be if they dated White women in their range. It’s very rare to see a White guy with an ugly woman of another ethnicity. So rare as to be statistically insignificant. The woman has to have universal beauty, health, and suitability markers that override the differences.

    Mind you, we’re talking about actual or Manian beauty standards and not social or Womanian beauty standards.

    If you’re calling what I’m saying “mumbo jumbo”, then it is because you apparently disagree with the vast majority of men posting here. Most of what I’ve been telling you throughout this conversation are things the guys here say often, and has only confirmed my real life experience and observations.

    You don’t know what beauty is for a man. You don’t even know what high quality means for a man.

    It’s like you quote the evolutionary biology and psychology data and statistics, but don’t really believe them.

    Also, a man who is “trash” doesn’t defy social norms. Alpha males, historically, have had interesting tastes and are more likely to have the choice, means, and will to shag a variety of types of women, and sometimes even men. Don’t you know it’s different for men and women?

    I think you’re trying to make it somehow shameful for men to use their options when they don’t agree with your ego.

    It’s kind of pathetic, but then you are a girl after all. So even I’ll give you a pussy pass for this one.

    I will have a nice laugh though, the next time I’m walking around with my legal husband or my boyfriend, and I get a dirty look from some formerly hot catlady or younger borderline wall victim, looking hot, but smelling faintly of dog, who doesn’t know how to use bar soap and a washcloth.

    It’s especially funny when one of them flirts with them and they let the women down and come back to me.

    Warm feeling inside.

    We are all competition for you, little girl.


  655. The current blonde stereotype began in the U.S. of the early 20th century. It was a product of ethnic contact between the native-born population and darker-haired immigrants (Italians, Jews, Greeks, etc.) who were often shocked by the relative sexual freedom of ‘American’ women. This attitude existed in different communities, but it entered the mainstream culture primarily via Jewish immigrants and specifically through their contributions to art and literature. It is a common theme in Jewish-American novels:

    The exotic female in Jewish life is the sexy shiksa, frequently a blue-eyed blonde who offers gratifications withheld, at least until marriage, by proper Jewish girls. […] A blend of arrogance and defensiveness prompts many Jews to claim that shiksas are more carnal and promiscuous than women of their own faith because Christians are less intelligent, refined, and clean than themselves. Goyishe Kopf (literally translated as gentile head), the Yiddish colloquialism for stupidity, exemplifies the traditional contempt for Christians. (Jaher, 1983)

    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/06/blonde-jokes-arent-funny.html

    and is this funny?


  656. Laura, I’m pretty sure it’s just social insulation in areas where blonde hair is more rare.

    When a person is prettier, people either treat them better or try to exploit them more often. Sometimes they do the latter masked as the former.

    It may be an easier life in some ways, but it doesn’t make it not hard at all. Sometimes I wonder if blondes being dumb is something like the Black women being sluts wishful thinking.

    Biology does affect one’s psychology, but things have to be taken in context. Someone being differently aware doesn’t make them dumb any more than not being dependent on paperwork to have a relationship makes them a slut.


  657. Just like housing, prices are sticky on the downslide.


  658. @namea – I have read similar. How jealous and petty.


  659. I am special. Your saying not does nothing to change the reality.

    Nicole, will you stop this nonsense? I remember when you destroyed anoukange -that was fun. She deserved it. But this is different. RV is just telling it like it is, as far as I can tell. There is objectivity in her statements. From what I can see, she hasn’t said one word about ‘herself’ or her ‘feelings’. She is writing about society, men and women, objectively.

    This sparring about who is better looking is getting ridiculous. I think she knows full well what her options are. Romanians, and people from the EE in general, don’t take shit off of anybody, from my experience. Give it up.


  660. @Nicole,

    RE: Blondes

    Actually the theory goes like this. Men prefer young and healthy women to mate with. Lighter skin, hair and eyes show the ravages of age and disease much faster.
    Therefore a light skinned, blonde woman who looks healthy is a better mating bet than a darker skinned, dark haired woman who could be masking her age or disease with a darker complexion.

    There is also the theory that men with recessive traits (blue eyes, especially) will seek out women with recessive traits to prevent cuckoldry. A blonde/blue eyed woman, married to a blonde/blue eyed man could not have a dark haired and eyed son.

    I have no horse in the race here, as I am raven haired, but that is the evolutionary theory and I think it is fairly accurate.

    However, it is not a zero sum game. There are a million other factors that make women attractive that can trump blondeness such as waist to hip ratio, face shape, features, neuroticism, etc.


  661. The association blonde=dumb is ubiquitous. I heard blonde jokes as a kid in the middle of Central Europe. It did not translate, though, to girls of my age, some natural blondes were purdy smart, so I came to realize it was referring to bleached older girl blondes, emphasis on girls–no one ever told me that I have a blond moment.:-)


  662. Nicole, the second theory I presented would mean that selection for blonde/blue eyes females would actually be stronger where there were more blonde/blue eyed men.


  663. dreampuppy, not sure, there seems to be something about blonde/blueyed women that attracts men from all races and ethnicities. Something that reaches across a substantial span of time, it is almost archetypal.

    Hehe, funny thing… whenever we went somewhere as family, people looked kinda oddly at us, both my parents with fairly dark hair (blue eyes, though), while all the 4 kids (3 boys, one girl) with light hair.


  664. on October 22, 2010 at 1:39 pm Willard Libby

    namae nanka

    and is this funny?

    Interesting video link. So the ad highlights a blonde shiksa making a dumb comment to a fat, ugly, curly haired, very Jewish looking female and then cuts to a picture of a Mercedes Benz car.

    A car traditionally favored by Jewish consumers despite it’s German heritage.

    The ad doesn’t make me want to buy a Mercedes. It makes me feel suspicious of the product being sold.


  665. @Morse

    The first theory explains why men of all races prefer blondes (all other factors being the same). The second theory is for Aryan gods like you to also benefit from.

    I wonder if it’s similar to women. There is a lot of a fuss made for the dark and handsome characters…..never been my type though.

    Long term reproductive strategy seems to be mostly a Western thing. Smart women should date men who stem from cultures that value long term reproductive strategies. So maybe the ladies should also prefer blondes. Or at least whities.


  666. “Nicole, will you stop this nonsense?”

    Goodness. Here we go with the pleas for fairness.

    “I remember when you destroyed anoukange -that was fun. She deserved it.”

    I did not destroy Anoukange. I helped her to see the folly in basically cyberstalking a guy who pumped and dumped her.

    “But this is different. RV is just telling it like it is, as far as I can tell.”

    Are you one of those guys for whom a woman’s value increases if she refuses your sexual advances?

    “There is objectivity in her statements. From what I can see, she hasn’t said one word about ‘herself’ or her ‘feelings’. She is writing about society, men and women, objectively.”

    I don’t see objective in replying to someone arguing that men value the virtue of ugly women less because they generally value ugly women less in general, with data about how men prefer blonde (or whatever other kind of pretty) more, as if it were a counterargument.

    That’s my idea of nonsense. I see that yours apparently is whatever an ugly woman says.

    …which proves my point. My virtue is worth as much to you as my honesty.

    “This sparring about who is better looking is getting ridiculous.”

    :: sigh ::

    My argument is that even though I am not better looking, I still get sexual and long term attention from men as good as prettier women in my social/socioeconomic class, albeit fewer of them, because I’m not wasting my life fiddling around with pussies. What one girl gets for being pretty, another may get from being feminine and lovable.

    Since women aren’t generally trying to start harems, who can get more guys is less important than who can get a guy.

    Women who are too focussed on numbers are masculine minded, and will screw themselves and advise others to do the same.

    I advocate the benefits of the prude shield over the bitch shield, but there’s a thin line. Cross that line, and you’re selecting for mangina.

    Something like what Jerry says, the prude shield is to signal that one has been denying guys except him, not that you’re going to deny him.

    “I think she knows full well what her options are. Romanians, and people from the EE in general, don’t take shit off of anybody, from my experience. Give it up.”

    I don’t give a rat’s arse about what her options are. She’s trying to tell me what my options are. On this, she is clueless and was giving out destructive advice.

    I’m not okay with people trying to screw me, whether they’re doing it on purpose or due to ignorance. I’m trying to cure her ignorance.


  667. Are you one of those guys for whom a woman’s value increases if she refuses your sexual advances?

    That depends. I dated a Japanese girl years ago and one night when I tried to shag her she said no, not until marriage. We stopped dating because then, as a young man, I thought I was entitled to sex before marriage. That’s just the way it is nowadays. When I look back, I can see I should have stuck with her, she would have been a great wife.

    I then dated a woman after that who never once refused me sex. But then eventually, we lost respect for each other. We banged, we weren’t married, and hence, there was no need to stick together. We were simply feral beings. No culture.

    I don’t see objective in replying to someone arguing that men value the virtue of ugly women less because they generally value ugly women less in general, with data about how men prefer blonde (or whatever other kind of pretty) more, as if it were a counterargument.

    That’s my idea of nonsense. I see that yours apparently is whatever an ugly woman says.

    …which proves my point. My virtue is worth as much to you as my honesty.

    Ok, this is bibble-babble. Verbal subterfuge. Double negatives, run-on sentences and sentence fragments thrown together in an elaborate bouillabaisse of nonsense.

    There is an objective beauty standard. End of.

    My argument is that even though I am not better looking, I still get sexual and long term attention from men as good as prettier women in my social/socioeconomic class, albeit fewer of them, because I’m not wasting my life fiddling around with pussies. What one girl gets for being pretty, another may get from being feminine and lovable.

    Since women aren’t generally trying to start harems, who can get more guys is less important than who can get a guy.

    Women who are too focussed on numbers are masculine minded, and will screw themselves and advise others to do the same.

    I advocate the benefits of the prude shield over the bitch shield, but there’s a thin line. Cross that line, and you’re selecting for mangina.

    Something like what Jerry says, the prude shield is to signal that one has been denying guys except him, not that you’re going to deny him.

    This makes sense, but really, all you need say is, ‘some guys dig me.’ Short n sweet. variety is the spice of life.


  668. Willard Libby

    “Interesting video link. So the ad highlights a blonde shiksa making a dumb comment to a fat, ugly, curly haired, very Jewish looking female and then cuts to a picture of a Mercedes Benz car.”

    good catch on the jewish female, but my first thoughts on watching the ad was that the girl was making fun of the fattie, her play acting was superb, and if the ad were longer they would have shown her going back to her friends and high-fiving them for being such a bitch to the librarian cow.
    So she had brains all right.


  669. Dream, I’ve heard that theory too, and believe that it’s valid. Men get information about a woman from her appearance, and so more information is a good thing.

    Also, yellow is a pretty color. Oshun, the Yoruba orisha of beauty wears yellow. Many of her adherents dye their hair blonde if they’re not blonde already.

    The thing some people need to remember here though, is that a preference is not necessarily a requirement. Some settle, and some accept tradeoffs for areas in which they are unable to settle.

    I am in no way whatsoever, attempting to make RV or anybody else who looks like she supposedly looks, feel bad about themselves. I am not one of those “everyone is beautiful and should just be accepted for who they are” people.

    I’m saying that whatever people may like in lab conditions or if they have unlimited choices, in the real world a skinny, blonde, White woman can do and say things to make herself repellant to some quality men, and a fat, Black woman can behave in a way that makes her attractive to some quality men.

    Behavior counts for a lot, and in the long run, the part of behavior that is related to self care is make or break. Nobody cares if you’re trying, but everybody cares if you don’t.

    It is not a good idea to bank on statistics more than the testament of older women who have been where one still has to go. Not every woman I know who was happily married for life or respectfully divorced at wall time was a hot young blonde, but they were all feminine, respecful, and with men they admired.

    If you want to be successful, you study, imitate, and improve upon the methods of the successful. You don’t bank your success merely on the failure of others.


  670. I asked Tim, “Are you one of those guys for whom a woman’s value increases if she refuses your sexual advances?”

    Tim answers, “That depends.”

    …on what exactly?

    “I dated a Japanese girl years ago and one night when I tried to shag her she said no, not until marriage.”

    How did you try to shag her? Did you ask her politely, were you kissing and fondling, or were you with the tip in already, and got knocked back? What base did you get to?

    It’s important.

    “We stopped dating because then, as a young man, I thought I was entitled to sex before marriage.”

    If she wasn’t a virgin, you stopped dating because something in you realized that you were dealing with a tease. You dodged a bullet.

    Women who seriously don’t have sex until marriage don’t even make out beyond a certain point. Those who are compassionate but don’t want to take body fluid risks before commitment or marriage will give a hand job.

    “That’s just the way it is nowadays. When I look back, I can see I should have stuck with her, she would have been a great wife.”

    No, she would have made a great parasite.

    “I then dated a woman after that who never once refused me sex.”

    Excellent start…

    “But then eventually, we lost respect for each other.”

    Try you never respected her, and she lost respect for you, likely because you became too dependent on her for sex.

    This is no surprise considering you got lured into the soft rapo game with Miss Japan.

    “We banged, we weren’t married, and hence, there was no need to stick together. We were simply feral beings. No culture.”

    You need legal and financial penalties to stick with someone?

    I pointed out, “My virtue is worth as much to you as my honesty.”

    To which Tim, lacking an argument but determined to make one anyway, flipped into grammar nazi mode, “Ok, this is bibble-babble. Verbal subterfuge. Double negatives, run-on sentences and sentence fragments thrown together in an elaborate bouillabaisse of nonsense.”

    …but then says the same thing I said upthread which is that, “There is an objective beauty standard. End of.”

    No shit, Sherlock.

    …and women who have less of it are less valued, and can therefore, not use the same mating and dating strategies as women who are more beautiful and therefore more valued.

    What is your problem with accepting that truth? That it came from the lips of an ugly girl?

    If that is your only problem, then you are inadvertently arguing in my defense.


  671. …on what exactly?

    Or maybe not. I am beginning to think short term relationships are not worth it. So yes, perhaps I do respect a woman who preserves her chastity. But I’m getting on now, turned 41 this year. I can go for a few years without sex. It doesn’t bother me one bit. In my personal experience -and I can only speak for me- the chaste women I’ve known were all of the highest quality. The ones I banged were low quality; I just didn’t know it because I was young, dumb and full of cum. But then again, we must not kid ourselves. Chastity? In 2010? LOL.

    What base did you get to?

    making out. fully clothed. she’s a virgin.

    You need legal and financial penalties to stick with someone?

    No, but the absence of those ensured an easy escape for me.

    …and women who have less of it are less valued, and can therefore, not use the same mating and dating strategies as women who are more beautiful and therefore more valued.

    That’s all you need to say.


  672. Tim says, “the chaste women I’ve known were all of the highest quality. The ones I banged were low quality;”

    Why do you think that is?

    Could it be…you are a sucker, and high quality women don’t give you sex because they know they can get more out of not giving you sex?

    On what base he got to with Miss Japan, he reports, “making out. fully clothed. she’s a virgin.”

    Yep…sucker. If sex was even on the table at this point, it’s because you asked for it, and she had the time to consider it and tell you no, not until marriage.

    If you weren’t a sucker, you’d have known before you started, whether or not she was up for it, or if she blind sided you, you’d never consider it a loss.

    She’s a whore…a mercenary. She is trying to catch someone who will fall for the scam and pay her to marry them, make a couple of babies, and then stop having sex.

    On whether or not he needs paperwork, he says, “No, but the absence of those ensured an easy escape for me.”

    That is a good thing. Men shouldn’t marry at all under 2.0 conditions. Why would you think it a good thing to be penalized for leaving a woman?

    On value and strategy, “That’s all you need to say.”

    That’s what I’ve been saying the whole time. What’s your problem?


  673. Why do you think that is?

    I chose the path of least resistance. I just wanted sex. Women who want LTR’s will make higher demands, which I wasn’t prepared to meet.

    Could it be…you are a sucker, and high quality women don’t give you sex because they know they can get more out of not giving you sex?

    Hmmm. Odd frame. High quality women = LTR, for me. Of course, that’s just my opinion. A woman who wants a roll in the hay and nothing more is not a high quality woman, IMO.

    She’s a whore…a mercenary. She is trying to catch someone who will fall for the scam and pay her to marry them, make a couple of babies, and then stop having sex.

    LOL. I know this woman; known her for several years. You may think she is whore, but that is your opinion. I disagree, but that’s my opinion. We just have different views.

    Why would you think it a good thing to be penalized for leaving a woman?

    Social shaming does have it positives. Children benefit the most, as they get to grow up with Mom and Dad. However, in a truly dysfunctional situation, yes, divorce is probably necessary.

    What’s your problem?

    It sounded like you were hounding RV, but I didn’t see anything she wrote which required it. Anoukange was a fraudulent, fake little princess who needed it. But RV was telling it like it is, no holds barred, which is refreshing. Actually, both of you ‘tell it like it is’. I don’t know where the personal attacks came from.


  674. on October 22, 2010 at 6:39 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Nicole, I largely stopped reading your comments, but I saw something that Tim quoted and some other stuff among the ton of mumbo jumbo. I didn’t say that men value the virtue of ugly women less, I said that ugly women can make up for their uglier look by being more virtuous than beautiful women. It’s called comparative advantage, in economics.

    Also though, if the beautiful women are slutty and the ugly women are virtuous, a beautiful virtuous woman will be a lot better than both groups based on the fact that she has it all since all these increase a woman’s worth more or less exponentially. Just like I will prefer a man with 200 million that is hot over a billionaire who is ugly.

    “It is not a good idea to bank on statistics more than the testament of older women who have been where one still has to go.”
    Right, since personal experience is more important than statistics. This is relatively amusing, it’s in the same category with mothers know best how to treat their children or whatever other kind of bullshit flies around. This is like saying that a disease has a 90% death rate if you don’t take meds and a 1% death rate if you do, but you shouldn’t take them because I know someone who didn’t take them and survived.

    Oh, and by the way, you probably suffer of the black woman complex that it’s all about you. Most of my comments here weren’t about you and I can hardly care about you. My comments were about people in general. You seem to be unable to differentiate among the two things.

    Also, I can’t see how the heck I disagree with most men here. You seem to be unable to have a coherent though, which is serious – I mean, the ton of straw mens you did lately is preposterous.


  675. arguing with the idiosyncratic-schizotypal persona will eventually give a logical person an aneurysm–you should stop rv


  676. Right, since personal experience is more important than statistics. This is relatively amusing, it’s in the same category with mothers know best how to treat their children or whatever other kind of bullshit flies around. This is like saying that a disease has a 90% death rate if you don’t take meds and a 1% death rate if you do, but you shouldn’t take them because I know someone who didn’t take them and survived.

    If I know someone who survived a disease with a CLAIMED death rate of 90% without the medicine… without taking medicine, and I DO NOT know 9 or at least one other person who didn’t take the medicine and died…. which I should notice cause dying is like hard to miss, then I would have good cause to question the study.

    Just like, if a woman uses the nuclear-weapon Creep label on guys who go to bars alone… that the poor little dear either was Played, or had her head handed to her by a Sigma Wolf.

    So who is scared of the Big Bad Wolf, little Rebelliousvanilla?


  677. on October 22, 2010 at 7:21 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Dana, I agree. This is why I usually don’t comment that much online and why I prefer to spot the intelligent people with who I can have meaningful conversations and email back and forth. But this can be rather amusing at times, even though after a while getting into harangues is boring and I reached that point. Hence why I’m going to stop this and not reply anymore.

    But still, I’m still doing this while I’m young and I’m sure I won’t get aneurysms. :P


  678. Tim says on why the breakup with the woman who refused sex, “I chose the path of least resistance. I just wanted sex. Women who want LTR’s will make higher demands, which I wasn’t prepared to meet.”

    Would you have been prepared to meet them if you felt she was the best you were ever going to get, or loved her so much that she filled up your inner sky?

    On being sniffed out as a sucker, “Hmmm. Odd frame. High quality women = LTR, for me. Of course, that’s just my opinion. A woman who wants a roll in the hay and nothing more is not a high quality woman, IMO.”

    I wasn’t talking about casual sex. I’m talking about sex without marital paperwork. Boy wants girl, girl wants boy, they have something special that both feel enough passion to roll (in the hay and perhaps beyond) with, and they do it in that kind of a flow.

    Happens all the time with guys who aren’t suckers. They know what they want, and they pursue it decisively.

    Meaning, they know what they want for a shag, and they know what they want in an LTR, and rather than making unnecessary barriers, break any barrier between them and what they want.

    If what you want is a woman who will manipulate you by refusing or withdrawing sex, then you’re on the right track. If not, you are operating on outdated standards based on women who, for the most part, no longer exist.

    On a particular woman playing games, “LOL. I know this woman; known her for several years. You may think she is whore, but that is your opinion. I disagree, but that’s my opinion. We just have different views.”

    I hold my view on this because a woman who respects the meat doesn’t play ding dong ditch with it. If she does, then she takes it on the chin or at least in the palm.

    On penalties, “Social shaming does have it positives. Children benefit the most, as they get to grow up with Mom and Dad. However, in a truly dysfunctional situation, yes, divorce is probably necessary.”

    That’s if you’re with a woman you wanted an LTR with in the first place. If you didn’t then it’s not a bad thing at all that you had an easy out.

    On his problem with me, “It sounded like you were hounding RV, but I didn’t see anything she wrote which required it.”

    She said that ugly women could increase their value by witholding sex from a man they’re in or want a relationship with.

    She is wrong.

    “Anoukange was a fraudulent, fake little princess who needed it. But RV was telling it like it is, no holds barred, which is refreshing. Actually, both of you ‘tell it like it is’. I don’t know where the personal attacks came from.”

    No, RV is an ignorant little girl who is low on empathy.

    I explained it numerous times, and each time, she responded as if personally attacked rather than corrected.

    I can understand why, empathizing with her, others came to her defense, but she was not being personally attacked. She just takes someone telling her that she is wrong personally, brings utterly irrelevant statistics into the issue, ignores possible variables on the positive side, and attempts to invalidate the experience of an older person who has experienced life within the unmentioned variables.

    Like I said before, if she has a thousand, and someone she arbitrarily or using female standards, considers inferior to her has one, it is a personal affront to her.

    I just don’t want to see her fuck herself…but maybe a woman without empathy deserves to be left to her blindness. It’s eugenic.


  679. Blah_Blah

    Sigma Wolf

    Woof!


  680. Would you have been prepared to meet them if you felt she was the best you were ever going to get, or loved her so much that she filled up your inner sky?

    No, those days are over for me. There aren’t magical moments, fireworks and so forth. Women are just people to me now, even gorgeous ones.

    On being sniffed out as a sucker…

    Heh. touche.

    I hold my view on this because a woman who respects the meat doesn’t play ding dong ditch with it. If she does, then she takes it on the chin or at least in the palm.

    I won’t say you’re wrong, but you are definitely not speaking my language. I think this may be an example where white people and black people have nothing in common. And I do not mean that as an offense, just an observation.

    She said that ugly women could increase their value by witholding sex from a man they’re in or want a relationship with.

    I thought she meant well. Regarding sex, I don’t think it’s that complicated, really. May as well be honest -a woman who really needs to get off can use her vibrator. A man who needs to get off can jerk it or pay for a massage.

    Regarding relationships, I read once that its an anomaly for a woman to be alone. Women are more social than men. I don’t know if that’s true, but no one, man or woman, should be with someone they don’t like, just to be with someone. Therefore, a so-called ‘ugly woman’ should just stay alone and get a cat, if there are no suitable men.

    Likewise for men. I broke up with my ex a couple years ago and am quite frankly enjoying the peace and quiet. Of course, I’ll have to get out there next year and try again, but this time wiser.

    No, marriage is not a requirement for me. However, I have grown respect for women lately who can’t be gamed easily. Which is natural. If there were no challenges we’d simply fizzle out…


  681. on October 23, 2010 at 6:16 am rebelliousvanilla

    I didn’t say that women should withhold sex. I said they would increase their relative position for marriage if they were chaste. This means not putting out to people besides the one you’re going to marry, but putting out to that one. You need to do some reading comprehension. Out of curiosity, which part of your IQ is high enough that makes up for the defficiency you have in the verbal part?


  682. Tim says on a woman filling up his sky, “No, those days are over for me. There aren’t magical moments, fireworks and so forth. Women are just people to me now, even gorgeous ones.”

    Okay, let’s place it in the context of friendship. A good friend is extremely rare. I wouldn’t be too quick to get rid of one just because they were of no practical use to me. Would you?

    I would however, distance myself from someone who thought it fun to lead me on and then let me down.

    What makes you think that you, at the core, would feel any different about a romantic relationship?

    Many men are not really conscious of their inner alpha because it’s suppressed by their culture, but there is very little one can do short of severe brainwashing to actually kill that in even normal men.

    You may not be entitled to sex, but it is not at all unreasonable to expect that someone who leads you to believe that they want to do it with you, follow through. If they don’t, then it is not unreasonable to feel let down and resent the tease.

    On women playing ding dong ditch, “I won’t say you’re wrong, but you are definitely not speaking my language. I think this may be an example where white people and black people have nothing in common. And I do not mean that as an offense, just an observation.”

    I think we have more in common than you think. We’ve just been lead to believe that we don’t. There are many cultures and races under the White umbrella, and not all of them are psychosexually flatlined.

    Try reading that again like a Russian or Italian.

    While you’re at it, check out their rates of rape as compared to other European countries. They’re very low, despite having quite forward, aggressive men.

    The difference, culturally, is that women in those countries don’t think it’s okay to tease, and don’t report regretted sex or sex as a result of teasing a guy as rape.

    So if you take nothing else away from this, be dangerous and don’t act like someone it’s okay to tease. Then girls like that will probably stay away from you, and women who are high quality will put out and still be high quality because they won’t take you for a sucker for sex games.

    You’ll get dinner *and* a show. ;-)

    On RV’s crappy advice, “I thought she meant well.”

    Yeah, they all do. All Rules girls think they’re helping women, but they’re only helping hot women for whom those games work. They do nothing for average or ugly girls but ruin their chances with the kinds of men who they need the most.

    In a stable, patriarchal culture, eschewing premarital sex altogether prevents women in stable, patriarchal families from getting pumped and dumped or forming socially inconvenient ties with men the family did not approve of. Both of those purposes are important.

    In an unstable, matriarchal or pseudoegalitarian leaning on female favor side culture, women rarely eschew premarital sex. They have sex with alpha males because the families are unwilling or unable to influence their choices, and settle with betas when they are unable to secure an alpha. They succeed in this because in such a culture the divide between alpha and beta is more stark than it is in a patriarchal culture that tries to enhance every male’s alpha traits. So a beta male who waits for sex is waiting for alphas’ leftovers and rejects.

    Waiting for sex beyond, not your impulse but decision that it is time, in a western social context, is proving that you think the leftovers and rejects are valuable enough to marry.

    Not waiting for sex beyond such a time as you, the man, decide that it is time, proves that you are alpha enough not to fall for the artificial status of used women.

    We are sluts. Treat us like sluts. If we’re not the bad kind, and you decide to keep us, then we’ll be grateful. We should be. There was a time when unprotected women were…less fortunate. Those times return whenever there is a war or natural disaster or political unrest.

    “Regarding sex, I don’t think it’s that complicated, really. May as well be honest -a woman who really needs to get off can use her vibrator. A man who needs to get off can jerk it or pay for a massage.”

    It’s not the same. I wish I could do a little hand trick I learned, that would explain the difference between masturbation and sex with another person much more clearly than words.

    “Regarding relationships, I read once that its an anomaly for a woman to be alone. Women are more social than men.”

    We are significantly weaker than men, and extremely vulnerable, and need the protection of others more to survive.

    “I don’t know if that’s true, but no one, man or woman, should be with someone they don’t like, just to be with someone. Therefore, a so-called ‘ugly woman’ should just stay alone and get a cat, if there are no suitable men.”

    There are plenty of suitable men.

    This is part of my point. Not every man needs to have the hottest or most beautiful woman, even in raw natural non Hollywood terms. Most guys are not the alpha-est of alphas, and have their own vulnerabilities and issues that they need a woman capable of forgiving, compensating for, or sometimes outright ignoring.

    Most guys thrive in a civilization, and when it’s patriarchal enough, both men and women thrive in it, and there’s a cover for the vast majority of pots.

    When it is pseudoegalitarian, it is less civilized, and the rules no longer apply. Most men and women get screwed because men aren’t allowed to be men. Since women prefer men who are men, they are in a position of having to filter for manhood, settle for girlified men, or do without. I chose to filter for manhood.

    There are many. They just need a chance…a woman who’s not playing games.

    “Likewise for men. I broke up with my ex a couple years ago and am quite frankly enjoying the peace and quiet. Of course, I’ll have to get out there next year and try again, but this time wiser.”

    Well, I hope I’m helping with the wiser. Meanwhile, you have some time to work your dangerous thing, and see what kind of women you catch the interest of, even if it’s not going to go further than pleasant company.

    I think you will be very pleased with women who like men.

    “No, marriage is not a requirement for me. However, I have grown respect for women lately who can’t be gamed easily. Which is natural. If there were no challenges we’d simply fizzle out…”

    Just remember, when you’re trying out dangerous to tease, that easy for you doesn’t mean easy for everyone. If you don’t behave generic, you’ll attract less generic women.

    Do be aware though, of the kind of doe who jumps on the spear. There should be a hunt.

    I like to fancy myself “big game”.


  683. rebelliousvanilla, you’re another Hope. This is going to be painful to watch.

    Then again, I like watching NASCAR wrecks. Maybe this won’t be so bad.


  684. Polymath:
    >>Everything you said about RV is wrong, as you would realize if you had read all her posts, which reveal that she has had a steady boyfriend for years whose “groupies” are wannabes he is not interested in, and she plays in the top league;

    Oh my fucking god. My eyes! They BURN!!!

    Would you defend a male friend this way?

    I kind of doubt it.


  685. Nicole, I like to fancy myself “big game”.

    This is not the sarc thread! :-)


  686. Morsellaux, I figure while I’m still fat, I may as well get some kind of joy from it. Besides, I have read _The_Satanic_Witch_.

    Now *that’s* a great work with practical advice for the non hot.


  687. @Nicole,

    “Satanic Witch…. for the non hot!”

    lol! you’re funny!

    I’ll start the day off with these witty words!! haha!!


  688. I agree. It’s so amusing to see these women turn up one these boards, ratting out other women, trying to act like one of the guys. Women who hate on other women are the worst kind of women in my experience, and you can already see this and other disgusting personality traits in RV. Loud, vain, narcissistic, condescending, impolite.

    It will be fun to watch this one implode too. I liked watching that ugly bitch LILGRL get taken down. RV reminds me of the white version of her.


  689. MKR:

    Not so much that but she thinks she’s smarter than she really is. She’s gotten ahold of one or two morsels of uncommon truth that the average person is oblivious to and suddenly she thinks she’s the master of the universe.


  690. What, you might also be pleased to know that one of the former names of the work was _What to Do When Virtue Fails_.

    I’d read it many years ago, but it wasn’t until being on a natural diet and then here awhile that I got up the gumption to put it to the test.

    It’s working very well for me. I believe that it’s because here, I came to understand what LaVey was saying about the changes in the sexual market were true. So it was just a matter of operating under the greater awareness.


  691. Yeah, Aspirant – I agree. I filed that under condescending, but more disturbing than her behavior – which is typical enough for the average egotistical 20 something woman – these guys jumping around her like puppies just because she shares a couple of their viewpoints is a sad site to watch.

    Clio and Nicole are the only women on this board I take seriously.


  692. Would you?

    friends are good.

    What makes you think that you, at the core, would feel any different about a romantic relationship?

    This is what I mean about talking past one another. You’re projecting. No one is getting led on. I’m just too old now for kid games. If you’re over 40, and this is the kind of men you meet, then I suggest you just get a cat.

    You may not be entitled to sex, but it is not at all unreasonable to expect that someone who leads you to believe that they want to do it with you, follow through. If they don’t, then it is not unreasonable to feel let down and resent the tease.

    This is so broad and sweeping a statement as to render it utterly devoid of meaning. Who said anything about teasing?

    So if you take nothing else away from this, be dangerous and don’t act like someone it’s okay to tease. Then girls like that will probably stay away from you, and women who are high quality will put out and still be high quality because they won’t take you for a sucker for sex games. You’ll get dinner *and* a show. ;-)

    Uh, ok. Are you insane, Nicole? I’m not a slave to my dick. It sounds like you’re a slave to your clitoris. I’m not making a moral judgment; it’s a free world. We clearly haven’t a shred in common. You sound like a raving lunatic.

    We are sluts. Treat us like sluts.

    I think you must be having a bad day.

    Well, I hope I’m helping with the wiser.

    Not at all. Not even close. You need counselling, Nicole.

    Meanwhile, you have some time to work your dangerous thing…

    word.

    Just remember, when you’re trying out dangerous to tease…

    word.


  693. Aspirant and MKR, at least she’s on the right track though. Most girls her age, and with her supposed looks, are completely clueless.

    It’s very easy to forget that in a few years, she’ll move a tick down to average, and in a decade or so, hit the wall. It will happen though, and I feel she’s in a better position to be prepared than most others.


  694. “Not so much that but she thinks she’s smarter than she really is. She’s gotten ahold of one or two morsels of uncommon truth that the average person is oblivious to and suddenly she thinks she’s the master of the universe.”

    Ah, the zeal of the newly converted. I have felt it myself at certain watersheds. I agree w/ Nicole that RV is at least aware of the law of diminished returns and is willing to work it to her advantage. I think this blog really helps women too. It teaches us to turn off the hamster and make informed choices that will benefit in the future (i.e. get a nice husband and have a happy marriage and pass on dem geenez cuz bitch you ain’t all that and if you is, you won’t be in 10 years so get it while the gettin’s good).


  695. women make everything so personal

    who cares about rebellious vanillas life, age, looks, relationship status

    what she is saying is true, or not

    thats it–if its not, refute it with reasoned arguments and evidence. nothing about her personal life makes it true or not


  696. Nicole,
    You are the one always bringing up your appearance. No one cares what you look like, stop acting so so self important.
    Take a page out of Dana’s book, she never makes anything personal.


  697. After all this debate and distractions by attempted character assassination I see a few issues here about the woman’s position:

    1) Should less attractive women put out before marriage?

    2) Can all women even find men who want to marry them?

    3) Can less attractive women still get decent guys?

    4) Given that the patriarchy is dead (or at least comatose) does it even make sense for all women to aspire to marry?

    5) Does settling make sense?

    My take: There’s no single set of answers here applicable to all or even most women. There’s not a best strategy for all women to follow. Lots of attributes differ between women including looks, intelligence, desire for children, and desire for sexual variety. For example, a smart women with little desire for children and a strong desire to bed lots of guys (and I know such women) aren’t gaining anything by playing hard to get.

    I do not think even Nicole’s strategy is optimal for all less attractive women. I grant her that she can use her mind and personality to attract some kinds of guys. But I think she’s an outlier too, just a different kind of outlier than RV.

    There are ugly dumb women with naturally wretched personalities who bring much less to the sexual competition than she does. They’ve got to be so unchoosy that it boggles the imagination in terms of what they’ve got to be willing to settle for. Then they’ve got to decide whether the results are even worth it.

    In between insults of Nicole RV said something revealing here:

    Oh, and I hardly care about idiotic Muslim men. I’d rather be celibate for the rest of my life than allow one of those filthy idiots touch me, even though, quite amusingly, they’re relatively fond of me too because of my social views.

    RV admits there’s a limit to how far down she’d be willing to settle. Better celibacy. I agree. There are kinds of women I’d never sleep. Better celibacy.

    If a woman is really unattractive yet really wants kids then settling is not the only choice. The important question is whether to go it alone from the start. If she’s got sufficient earnings power then using sperm donors make a lot of sense. That way she can get far far better genes for her kids than she could with a dumb guy who is unemployed half the time. Smarter genes for her kids will make them far more successful than having a father present will do for them. Ditto if sperm donor dad is very attractive. Why not use a super alpha 150 IQ sperm donor?

    I see a few things that women have to trade off between:

    A) A husband who is a good provider.

    B) A husband who is satisfying in other ways.

    C) Good genes for their kids.

    D) Financial security.

    E) Sexual variety with more desired sex partners.

    For some women one or more items on the above list are out of reach. They might have no strategy that’ll get them most of what they want. So the question isn’t so much who to settle for but what to give up on. Settling for some guy might not be the best choice depending on her various assets and desires.

    [Editor: All good points. And don't forget that the more alpha a woman is -- that is, the more attractive mating characteristics she possesses -- the easier time she will have fulfilling requirements A - E (if she has urges to fulfill all of them). The same is true of men.]


  698. Tim says, “If you’re over 40, and this is the kind of men you meet, then I suggest you just get a cat.”

    Thank you for revealing your underbelly.

    Just because you can’t comprehend what I’m saying, labia for brains, doesn’t mean I’m talking past you.

    If your whole purpose of discussing this with me was to find an opening to insult me, then you wasted your time. Others here call me fat, ugly, and insane without my saying anything to them, and a couple will bring me up when I’m not even posting in a thread.

    Your needing to look justified just highlights the fact that you are the pussy that women rightfully take you for.

    Next time, just join into my usual haters’ circle jerk like a man, and don’t start a discussion just to make stuff up to have against me aside of what you always have, like a girl.

    Now, the next time you see me posting, and your hands start itching for something to do, don’t tempt me to tell you to, just go fuck yourself.


  699. Dana, this entire blog is an argument in my favor.

    Most of the guys here are trying to save themselves from having to resort to women who look like me or be doomed to a life of celibacy.

    …and justifiably so. If a woman looks like me at like, 20, something is wrong with her mentally or physically. It’s only because I’m older that I find the intensity of their apparent hatred so disturbing. It is still understandable considering the “cougar trend” though.

    Ask around. How many of you guys out there give a crap if a fat or whatever other kind of ugly girl is chaste?

    Would you marry an ugly girl who made you wait for sex?


  700. laura,

    to be fair–i did once call her an Ent and a hebephrenic tree ogre after a protracted argument she made more and more personal by the moment


  701. Randall Parker, D) Financial security.

    Any woman with some wits about her would replace that with D) Ability of adaptation to changing circumstances, pronto.

    Unless she nails a millionaire+, the financial security is unachievable. It may seem at present that above median income may provide “financial security” to a degree, but not that far in the future, after the “Great Wipeout”, even millionaires may be destitute. It would be a “fun” to watch how the original D) would shift into an entirely new gear, after a period of confusing transition


  702. Dana, maybe my arguments seem overly personal to you because I don’t try to mask my personal beliefs with pseudoscience or bring into play irrelevant statistics when important variables are unknown. I just say that some things are unknown and focus on what is somewhat known, which is people’s personal experience and the wisdom of experts on the subject.

    Now Dana, if you believe that I am in error, then shit or get off the pot.

    Trash talking from the sidelines just makes you look like you’re getting personal, and jonesing to jump on any bandwagon that is against me.

    Not very objective and impartial.


  703. Just because you can’t comprehend what I’m saying, labia for brains, doesn’t mean I’m talking past you.

    Yes it does. We are not communicating at all. We are not on the same wavelength. Just give up, already. All I originally wanted to say to you was go after RV’s argument, not her person. Somehow it got sidetracked.

    If you’re over 40, and this is the kind of men you meet, then I suggest you just get a cat.

    That was not meant as an insult. Take a close look. There is nothing wrong with being single or alone. Don’t read into something that isn’t there. The above statement was not designed as an insult.

    I don’t think anybody hates you. I don’t. Just attack someone’s argument, that’s all, not them personally. Unless it’s someone I hate. LOL. (seriously though, I don’t hate people).


  704. Flamethrowers ready, set go!


  705. on October 23, 2010 at 6:15 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Randall, there are more men that I exclude from potential mates:
    1)all Muslims
    2)all leftist men(heck, even the Muslims are better) – there’s something that makes me feel like throwing up about them
    These are just two examples. But again, I’m not around here whining and I don’t have to settle.


  706. on October 23, 2010 at 6:32 pm Otis the Sweaty

    RV can be a bitch and isn’t a tenth as smart as she thinks she is, but she is still pretty smart for a woman. She got banned from Feministing after only 2 posts.

    She just needs to grow out of her “libertarian = cool/original” phase. I think you guys should give her a chance.

    Plus, it is funny when she gets angry.

    RV: you should posts on escapistart’s blog. You would fit in perfectly there.


  707. Well, any woman who gets herself banned from Feministing must be OK unless its someone who resents the sexual revolution itself.

    @Nicole – You are basically stating a theme of this blog when you note that a man should not behave toward a woman that its OK for her to tease him or manipulate him in any way. This would include withholding sex to make him like her better. Game, as described here, is supposed to help a man get laid with the same type of woman who would play chaste with another man who would reward her more for being chaste.

    I’m surprised there’s been no discussion of the book “The Rules” here. That would have been better than watching all the personal attacks flying (lets keep this blog free of personal attacks):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rules

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CEFDB1038F935A35756C0A9679C8B63

    As you can see, the bitch who wrote all about how women should manipulate men by withholding sex and refusing dates asked for after Wednesday had her ass DIVORCED by the “dream husband” all her books professed her as an expert at “snaring”.

    Read the idiotic excuse she gives in trying to market her new book about how to conduct the perfect marriage…when she was getting DIVORCED at the moment that book was published!

    You simply can’t get any more ironical.


  708. Notice in the New York Beta Times article that the women “Rules experts” are not taking into account the physical attractiveness of the women they observe at a bar being rejected by men. They say the problem was the women started talking to a man first and that is why he rejected them (they ate alone and left the bar dejected).

    The article says the women whom the experts were judging were “dressed well”. What a beta newspaper to ignore what would be more relevant to any reader.

    Who wants to bet they weren’t 6s or less? Whether they started a conversation or not would have meant nothing at all in comparison with how they looked.

    By the way, this Time article shows partly why there are so many female flakes on the US east coast:

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,985233,00.html

    According to “The Rules” a woman is supposed to be a flake.

    According to “The Rules” if a man gives a woman his business card and he has no way to call her himself, she should STILL NOT CONTACT HIM.

    That’s social suicide. But it happens all the time.


  709. “Some therapists will think the Rules are dishonest and manipulative,” the book warns, but Tan and other Rules Girls insist that playing hard to get empowers them. “I am weeding out the losers real quick,” says Kathy. Ellen Robey, 28, who works for a talk show in Nashville, Tennessee, and runs a Rules support group, says her attitude now is “I deserve the best, and you’re lucky if you can even get my name.” After following the Rules for a year and a half, Robey became engaged last week.

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,985233-2,00.html#ixzz13E99YOL7

    I’m trying to find the famous interview with the ex-husband of “The Rules” author Ellen Fein, where he says that he started liking his wife less when she bragged to the world that she had manipulated him into marriage.

    But its 2AM and I’m tired.

    How about this: the below article suggests that Ms. Fein failed to keep her husband, despite all the manipulation, because her bottom row of teeth were discolored and bent back:

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-8923625.html

    Sadly, that’ll do it. We men are shallow. I just decided yesterday not to date one woman anymore because she didn’t take care of her teeth well enough.

    Here’s a great slamdown of the book “The Rules”:

    http://relationshiplaboratory.com/do-the-rules-work-or-is-it-just-playing-games/

    Money quote: “No woman wants a man she can control”.

    If that’s what Nicole’s been trying to say, she’s right. Its also a basic theme of this blog.

    Here is a bitter old feminist complaining (correctly) about “The Rules” but stupidly implying that men who date much younger women will fall “victim” to Rules girls:

    http://www.salon.com/weekly/courtney960722.html

    There is no logic in her assertion that the men she met at a San Francisco bar who date younger women would be more, instead of less, prone to be manipulated by women.

    Note the man who says “Why do we date younger women? Because we can.” The feminist blogger hated him for saying that and wished him a horrible future of being married to a manipulative young woman.


  710. That’s why hoes be single, Jerry. As I’ve said before: prices are sticky on the downside.


  711. on October 23, 2010 at 9:04 pm Reality Check

    According to “The Rules” a woman is supposed to be a flake.

    According to “The Rules” if a man gives a woman his business card and he has no way to call her himself, she should STILL NOT CONTACT HIM.

    That’s social suicide. But it happens all the time.

    Correction – It is not so much ‘social suicide’ as it is WHITE SOCIAL SUICIDE.

    What other racial, ethnic or religious groups but White, European and Christian (or ‘gentile’) behaves as insipidly and as cluelessly narcissistic as this, especially their women?!?

    This is why Middle America is being culturally and socially destroyed from within — too many honkies imbibing a little too much of the Kultural Kool Aid — with White ‘gentile’ wymmyn get absolutely blitzed and plastered on it on a regular basis (who are more yentafied then the actual yentas themselves – (g)oy vey).


  712. Tim secreted, among other smegma, “I don’t think anybody hates you. I don’t.”

    Expressing hatred and then not being man enough to own it…

    Darwin, Nietzsche, and LaVey should all be rolling in their graves at death of the White man.

    The least you can do if you think you’re the Master Race is behave like it.

    As a woman, I understand that the only contribution my relatively high IQ makes to my sexual market value is in the ability to produce intelligent children. My actual appeal rests in my beauty first, my femininity second, and my nurturing abilities third. If I am lacking in any of those areas, my intelligence may help me to understand how I can highlight the areas in which I don’t fall short or avoid situations that would threaten them, but will not itself, compensate for a deficiency in those areas.

    Sublimation in a man is worth as much as IQ in a woman.


  713. Dana says, “i hate her”

    …and well you should. I’m a person of a very different race who has both the intelligence and physical fitness to be a formidable enemy of not just you but your people.

    Though people of my race are, on average, less intelligent, they are very good soldiers when properly motivated by someone charismatic and aware of their strengths and weaknesses. If I were also level headed enough to compensate for my own potential blind spots as a leader, I could rule for life, and maybe even manage not to be assassinated.

    Unless I am somehow involved in the preservation or advancement of your race (which you wouldn’t know, but humor me), I should be considered a competitor for resources. Up in your homeland or base country, I should also be considered a competitor for status.

    We are the same species, but genetically different enough that you should worry about my level of assimilation to your culture, if I’m living among your people. I would worry about yours if it were the other way around.

    I do indeed mourn the death of the African in the Black American man. Many babies are being thrown out with perfectly good bathwater, that is not given its due because of smarmy liberals who kill us with kindness.

    Damn right you should hate me.

    If you knew me better though, you’d probably like me since I’m trying to keep Israel from imploding from imitating White Americans in all the wrong ways. Among other things, I encourage men here who’ve gone astray to learn game, and women to be more appreciative and respectful of their men.

    Three of my friends are working on books on the subject in Hebrew.

    I’m also promoting a natural diet. It’s becoming a porker parade here.


  714. @ Jerry

    According to “The Rules” a woman is supposed to be a flake.

    According to “The Rules” if a man gives a woman his business card and he has no way to call her himself, she should STILL NOT CONTACT HIM

    The ironic thing about these “Rules” is that women who follow them destroy their chances of getting the men they desire most. No alpha will waste time chasing a “Rules” girl.


  715. nicole

    1. saying the things you just said to someone you know doesnt consider negros to be fully human is risible at the very least

    2. i don’t give a flying fuck about israel–im american

    3. shut up nigger


  716. Retrenched,

    If a girl really wants to get married then I fail to see how turning down an alpha’s sexual advances is going to blow a chance at marriage.

    To put it another way:

    – Alphas are probably less likely to want to get married than betas. If you can get the milk for free…

    – If alphas really want to get married why should they mind waiting for marriage to get sex? They can just move up the marriage date or get sex from another woman until married.

    Nicole,

    I can see you getting off on the fantasy of a white male hating you. But I suspect Dana’s really making fun of Tim. He obviously sees Tim’s claim of lacking hatred and other comments by Tim as incredibly beta. Though I could be wrong. Maybe Dana has formed a secret crush on your big hooters.

    So Dana, you frustrated that Nicole isn’t interested in you? You hate the bitch because she isn’t writing you porno comments in email?


  717. nah im just an old married woman that hates blacks


  718. Dana, it doesn’t really matter whether you recognize my humanity or not. I am still a potential danger to you in ways you won’t anticipate, and may not be able to defend yourself if you don’t understand my very human strengths and weaknesses.

    This is the Anglo and wannabe blind spot: the belief that dehumanizing someone renders them less threatening anywhere but in your mind.

    This is why Europe is being overrun by Arab Muslims, and the U.S. is being overrun by unassimilating Mexicans (Spaniards and Native Americans).

    You’re Jewish, but you’re dumbing yourself down to fit in with the fatally stupid class of Anglos. I feel the same pity for you that I do for Black sorority girls on the cock carousel.

    You’re not doing yourself or your adopted culture any favors by falling into the same traps.


  719. On another note, I’m not in the habit of hating animals for being animals, or even humans for merely acting out their innate stupidity.

    I only hate people I know have some conscious choice in whether or not to harm me. The ones who can’t help themselves, I just pity enough to be willing to put them down like a suffering pet if they become homicidally hostile.

    Those who presume to be equal or superior to me in crucial ways, and prove as much, I hate. Those who do not prove themselves so, I figure are afflicted with a genetically programmed sensitivity to unfamiliar features, and a few other conditions that lead to irrational levels of self pity and paranoia.

    So I “hate” them like I hate venomous spiders. It’s cool so long as they stay away from me or mine. If not, then it’s stomping time.


  720. Nicole,

    I stand corrected from Dana.


  721. @Morsellaux

    Flamethrowers ready, set go!

    So it’s being said and so it’s being done!

    Woof!

    LOL


  722. Jerry, it is not as much a “white” patttern as SWPL one.

    Humanity has forms of lemming behavioral patterns (it has more a drawn out form) to let nature to take a care of what is being preserved due to undesirable patterns injected by social misconstructs.

    Thus I see a silver lining–selection for intelligence (a woman that can think for herself) and for these that don’t follow the “trends”, e.g. more socially conservative groups.


  723. @ Randall Parker

    By “men they desire most”, I meant alpha males. But, I suppose if a girl is serious about finding a husband — rather than just “riding the carousel”, so to speak — then using “The Rules” to filter out super-alphas and PUAs would give her a better chance of finding a guy who will make a long term commitment to her.

    Ideally, she’ll find a marriage-minded greater beta with just enough game to keep her attracted to him.


  724. Retrenched, flaking rule is a passive-aggressive behavioral pattern, it’s dysfunctional. I hope that young women that are marriage minded won’t take your advice and use some more direct methods, like “No, not interested”.


  725. Dana brought an atom bomb to a knife fight. Or perhaps white phosphorus would be more apropos.

    Nicole, if you understood mathematics, you would know through extrapolation that there are way more above 120+IQ caucasians than jews. This is just in the US alone, and obviously the case if you add Europe to the equation.

    Why are you lamenting the loss of Africa in Black men in the USA? WTF kind of retarded bullshit is that.

    Greece, Rome and the Byzantine empire came and went, and all the while south of the Sudan no people ever developed a written language. That is not a culture we should be trying to import.


  726. Expressing hatred and then not being man enough to own it…

    I don’t hate you. Seriously.

    I guess the comment about just buying a cat could seem hateful, but it wasn’t intended to. It was more like when you tell a friend who is opting out of the dating market for awhile to simply take a break and get some books. That’s it, nothing more to it.

    The least you can do if you think you’re the Master Race is behave like it.

    I don’t think I’m the Master Race. I’m French and Irish. We’ve been stomped lots. By other whites. But we’ve still been stomped.

    I think that your blackness does come out in your writing. You sound like that black lady in The Matrix; you know, the wise woman who would advise Neo while puffing away on a Pall Mall. You sound sage and wise. However, sometimes you sound, well…like a fruitcake. But that’s ok. I respect your diversity.

    And with that I am done for the night.


  727. Nicole said:

    “Darwin, Nietzsche, and LaVey should all be rolling in their graves at death of the White man.”

    Not really.


  728. on October 24, 2010 at 10:27 am rebelliousvanilla

    Morsellaux, flaking can work. But you have to have the guy sort of hooked already. The push-pull thing works on men too(quite brilliantly, I might add).


  729. RV

    game is about wresting “hand” from the dominant sex–everything game is trying to teach MEN today my mother tried to hammer into me as a young girl. read “gone with the wind” to hear scarlett describe using game to snare mens hearts and string them along mercilessly.

    when men held all the power cards women had to resort to their “feminine wiles”.

    today women hold the power cards solely by dint of law and moreover the obesity problem has shot the value of anything young and not fat through the stratosphere–so men have to resort to the same “wiles” women always used in the before time, in the long long ago


  730. On the LaVeyan synthesizer clock, the fat girls cover the intellectual feminine through earthy feminine, just earthy, and earthy and mildly dominant positions. So they generally need men who are earthy dominant, super dominant, to intellectual and only very mildly feminine.

    The man’s personality is what counts to women, but since men are attracted visually, the female has to be WYSIWYG.

    On the rare occasions a dominant guy goes for a fat girl at all, he’s looking for someone feminine, social, nurturing, and charismatic without being too overbearing…steady, pleasant company. If the woman doesn’t deliver, he gets the male version of creeped out.

    Plus, being dominant, he has the option of getting prettier women in the feminine range. He does not have to take crap from either ugly or pretty girls, and is aware and, if older, experienced enough to understand the tradeoffs involved with either.

    In order to stop attracting pussies, and start attracting dominant men again, I had to let go of a defense mechanism I developed from being picked on too much. My husbands both blasted through the facade, but they both also caught me at times when I was off my guard.

    Entering the market again, older and I thought wiser, I was a fully armored self fucking mechanism primed for disaster.

    Here, I learned what the non pussies are really thinking, albeit a bit too westernized segment of them, but still…

    …and like I said, men all around the clock will give a pass for certain crappy behavior to a pretty girl: some due to social dependence and female standards, and some due to an understanding of the “nature of the beast”.

    …but nobody with even one bird shot testicle rattling around between his legs gives ugly girls a pass: some because the ugly are irrelevant or targets for bucket crabbing to them, and some because they know an ugly girl should know better than to behave like a bitch.


  731. We can use our feminine ways, but just don’t abuse it. Men aren’t stupid and they are human too. Perhaps growing up with a lot of men taught me that.


  732. on October 24, 2010 at 12:26 pm rebelliousvanilla

    dana, I agree with you, but even with the dominant hand you can get more. I will use a poker analogy. Suppose you flop the top pair with the highest kicker and I flop a straight. I won’t reraise you like a nutjob and cause you to fold. I will merely call your bets and reraise you on the river(this is a really simple explanation of how things go lol). Sure, I could have had won the pot on the flop easily by making you fold. But like this I won far more. It’s the same with dating, actually. By doing the right things, even with the better position, you can improve your relative situation.

    Take Gone With The Wind. Sure, you have Scarlett. But you also have Rhett. He wasn’t exactly the pathetic wimp(actually some of his lines were pure brilliance). And I don’t really consider Scarlett at being that amazing at girl game. She was a bit too obnoxious. Funny enough, when I watched the movie the first time, both of them pissed me off. Now, only she annoys me. The thing related to game is that a lot of men today are insecure and don’t really do what’s in their nature(because really, if you look at boys’ treatment of girls, they do have a lot of features of games) because society emasculates them.


  733. Push-pull is effective on both men and women; so effective that it even works accidentally (when no gaming is intended). But flaking has always been a very big red flag for me. I have written on old threads here about the firm treatment flaking requires and how little it should be tolerated.


  734. “1. saying the things you just said to someone you know doesnt consider negros to be fully human is risible at the very least

    2. i don’t give a flying fuck about israel–im american

    3. shut up nigger

    Aaaaand we come to it at last…


  735. dana,
    You’re right, Scarlett’s mother was basically teaching her the female equivalent of game, in order to get a husband and have a decent live. It would be a lot more fun to learn how to be a master flirt rather than sitting through algebra class.


  736. @Dragnet What is “it”


  737. Jerry,

    I find The Rules on Wikipedia kinda bizarre:

    9. How to Act on Dates 1,2, & 3 End the date first especially if you like him.

    15. Don’t Rush into Sex, Wait at Least Three Dates

    So maybe have sex on the 3rd date but do not stay overnight after sex? End that date right after sex. Be tough: Do not fulfill his desire to cuddle.

    If a woman seriously wants to get married I would suggest she wait longer than the 3rd date to start having sex – unless she’s already taken the measure of a beta she’s willing to settle for and knows she can still get him to marry her even as she gives into her desires for immediate gratification.

    I see the Rules list as an argument for looking hard for Slut Tells. Though, on the bright side, if the Slut thinks she only has to hold out till the 3rd date she’s still going to be pretty easy to spot.


  738. Morsellaux,

    Guys obvious differ in what they want in women. Some of the more practical guys who have experience in management are going to see flakiness as a big turn-off. If you are fighting on a daily basis to get people to do their jobs and your latest love interest obviously can’t make dates and can’t return phone calls then you are thinking she’s got something in common with your workers you most want to fire.

    To put it another way: Athol Kay said women want a dominant man to whom they can be a competent first officer. Some guys who want wives and who haven’t been feminized and had their brains turned to porridge by the mass media and feminist universities really want women who have these qualities. Well, that’s at least true of some women who’d make good wives. Well, those kinds of women ought to make their competence and reliability plain to see. Flakiness signals they do not have those qualities.

    So one has to ask what game a woman is playing. If she’s really seriously looking for a husband (and not riding the cock carousel) then I think she ought to find ways other than flakiness to try to pose as more valuable.


  739. on October 24, 2010 at 5:49 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Randall, you have to understand the purpose of that book. It’s not there to tell women that they’re wrong in what they’re doing. It’s there to tell most women that what they did was the right thing. You have to understand the female mind on this one. A lot of us read romance novels for the same reason they’d read that book.


  740. RV,

    Thanks. Decades of dealing with women and I still get tripped up expecting them to be interested in what is true rather than what makes them feel good about what they’ve done or intend to do.

    Given that perspective the book says volumes about how much women’s conditioning has changed. The big stretch is to hold out till the 3rd date. So then alpha males would approve of this book. No threat to the status quo while pretending to be a threat to the status quo. Kinda like politicians who are owned by Wall Street who write financial reform laws.


  741. Randall, re flakiness, spot on as LTR/VLTR goes (I am not using marriage on purpose, until the rules change, I don’t see a marriage as a viable arrangement). As STRs go, flakiness is annoying, but does not bother me–I can sub another poon.


  742. on October 24, 2010 at 7:26 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Randall, exactly. It’s sort of weird for me, since I’m both logical and emotional and the two sides clash at times. :P That op-ed by Athol Kay is really good, by the way.

    The best example of this, and this is true for both men and women, is to read studies related to putting your children into daycare. Despite most studies showing that putting your child into daycare before their 3rd birthday is completely idiotic, any small study done that doesn’t show so gets pushed in front of all the rest because people want to feel good about their decisions. It’s the same with this book – it’s there to tell the average woman that what she’s doing is right. What’s hilarious is that some rules contradict each other – not returning calls and not meeting someone halfway is the opposite of being easy to live with. This is why most women are trash actually. We are really prone to doing what society asks us to do and books such as that one do just that – preserve the status quo and reinforce trashiness. If they would have wrote anything of relevance on this matter, the book wouldn’t have had that many sales since the views wouldn’t be congruent with what is expected of us to do by society. You can look at this reinforcement thing in the rules too – do it even if others think it’s nuts. Our approval is what matters, not theirs. lol

    Here’s what I find PURE bullshit:
    2. Don’t Talk to a Man First (and Don’t Ask Him to Dance)
    4. Don’t Meet Him Halfway or Go Dutch on a Date
    5. Don’t Call Him & Rarely Return His Calls
    7. Don’t Accept a Saturday Night Date after 3:00PM.
    The rules related to when you should kiss and when to sleep with a man are trash too, since each situation is different.

    These were somewhat good:
    16. Don’t Tell Him What to Do
    17. Let Him Take the Lead
    18. Don’t Expect a Man to Change or Try to Change Him
    23. Don’t Date a Married Man
    34. Love Only Those Who Love You
    11. ALWAYS end the date first
    6. Always End Phone Calls and dates First
    But that should be common sense.

    Jerry, I was banned from feministing. It took only two comments and I made both of them in quick succession. And I don’t resent the sexual revolution, I resent it’s consequences. Choosing in between the revolution and its consequences and how it was before, I will choose the latter though.

    Nicole, I don’t hate you because I don’t see you as a formidable enemy to anyone. Online IQ tests are irrelevant and your fitness is similar to the one of my pet cat that sleeps the whole day and moves just to eat.

    >>Unless I am somehow involved in the preservation or advancement of your race (which you wouldn’t know, but humor me), I should be considered a competitor for resources. Up in your homeland or base country, I should also be considered a competitor for status.

    We are the same species, but genetically different enough that you should worry about my level of assimilation to your culture, if I’m living among your people. I would worry about yours if it were the other way around.<>Though people of my race are, on average, less intelligent, they are very good soldiers when properly motivated by someone charismatic and aware of their strengths and weaknesses. If I were also level headed enough to compensate for my own potential blind spots as a leader, I could rule for life, and maybe even manage not to be assassinated.<<
    Please, black people are even worse at fighting than Arabs and Arabs are truely inept. Intelligence and discipline are even more important now than ever in terms of warfare and black people have neither. Also, considering the ton of bullshit black people are willing to believe(AIDS was invented by the government, that eating Pygmies gives you magical powers, that illicit drugs are part of a genocidal plot, that the Church's Fried Chicken doctored its food to sterilize black men, that Reagan spread drugs in the ghettos, that the CDC was behing the youth killings in Atlanta(this one is really hilarious), that Colonel Sanders stole his reciepe from a black cook, that Bush went to war because the US army had too many blacks, that the LA riots were allowed to get out of hand so that nonwhites will look bad on TV., that RJ Reynolds and Philip Morris being part of the Klan, the latter not even being American to begin with, I think that the other side could run some brilliant propaganda to destroy the morale of black soldiers. I will close this one with Napoleon's words:
    "Any Frenchman will easily be defeated by one Mameluke. Ten Frenchmen have little chance against ten Mamelukes. But one hundred Frenchmen will always win against one hundred Mamelukes. And one thousand Frenchmen can defeat any number of Mamelukes in battle."
    It's about the same with your and my people. Who you should be worried about though in America is Hispanics. They largely don't care about you and have no problem with showing you the finger. Those are your real competitors. :)


  743. Randall, yea, puzzling… what they think they’ll gain? I think it is a case of projection. It works on them, ergo it must work on men. Yea, right!

    I tolerate first flaking, there is not any relationship to speak of yet. The second time, she better have some pretty damn good excuse. There is no third time, if you know what I mean.

    But who knows, maybe they like shooting themselves into foot, if this is a sort of a shit test, so they can then feel sorry for themselves? Or that they can manipulate some romantically inclined schmuck? For what?

    On the other hand, they really shit test themselves for us. A handy self-inflicted disqualifier. Way to go, grrrlz! Making it easier for us to pre-sift for a genuine material


  744. MKR
    I agree. It’s so amusing to see these women turn up one these boards, ratting out other women, trying to act like one of the guys. Women who hate on other women are the worst kind of women in my experience

    MKR well said and I totally agree. they are the worse and will cross you as soon as you turn your back. A man who dates this type of woman is a fool.


  745. on October 24, 2010 at 8:43 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Nicole, I don’t hate you because I don’t see you as a formidable enemy to anyone. Online IQ tests are irrelevant and your fitness is similar to the one of my pet cat that sleeps the whole day and moves just to eat.

    >>Unless I am somehow involved in the preservation or advancement of your race (which you wouldn’t know, but humor me), I should be considered a competitor for resources. Up in your homeland or base country, I should also be considered a competitor for status.

    We are the same species, but genetically different enough that you should worry about my level of assimilation to your culture, if I’m living among your people. I would worry about yours if it were the other way around.<>Though people of my race are, on average, less intelligent, they are very good soldiers when properly motivated by someone charismatic and aware of their strengths and weaknesses. If I were also level headed enough to compensate for my own potential blind spots as a leader, I could rule for life, and maybe even manage not to be assassinated.<<
    Please, black people are even worse at fighting than Arabs and Arabs are truely inept. Intelligence and discipline are even more important now than ever in terms of warfare and black people have neither. Also, considering the ton of bullshit black people are willing to believe(AIDS was invented by the government, that eating Pygmies gives you magical powers, that illicit drugs are part of a genocidal plot, that the Church's Fried Chicken doctored its food to sterilize black men, that Reagan spread drugs in the ghettos, that the CDC was behing the youth killings in Atlanta(this one is really hilarious), that Colonel Sanders stole his reciepe from a black cook, that Bush went to war because the US army had too many blacks, that the LA riots were allowed to get out of hand so that nonwhites will look bad on TV., that RJ Reynolds and Philip Morris being part of the Klan, the latter not even being American to begin with, I think that the other side could run some brilliant propaganda to destroy the morale of black soldiers. I will close this one with Napoleon's words:
    "Any Frenchman will easily be defeated by one Mameluke. Ten Frenchmen have little chance against ten Mamelukes. But one hundred Frenchmen will always win against one hundred Mamelukes. And one thousand Frenchmen can defeat any number of Mamelukes in battle."
    It's about the same with your and my people. Who you should be worried about though in America is Hispanics. They largely don't care about you and have no problem with showing you the finger. Those are your real competitors.


  746. RV that Bush went to war because the US army had too many blacks

    where did you get that one from? I’ve never come across that one.


  747. on October 24, 2010 at 8:50 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Jerry, I was banned from feministing. It took only two comments and I made both of them in quick succession. And I don’t resent the sexual revolution, I resent it’s consequences. Choosing in between the revolution and its consequences and how it was before, I will choose the latter though.


  748. on October 24, 2010 at 9:01 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Randall, that op-ed you linked to about marriage is really good.

    By the way, the case related to writing things to make people feel good about their decisions isn’t really exclusively catering to women. You can look at day care, for example. There are tons of studies on why it is bad to put your child into one before the age of three. But there are a couple who say it is inconclusive and people peddle those and say that inconclusive means that it is the same as you actually raising the child. What’s ironic about the book with the rules though is that some rules contradict each other – being easy to live with is the opposite of not returning calls or not meeting someone halfway. These books appeal to our(women) craving for social approval and society reinforces our beliefs that we should be as messed up as we are. You can even see in the rules that they say we should disregard what others think of what we’re doing. It’s sort of a vicious circle here since if you write a book that trashes the status quo, you won’t sell much, but if you don’t, the status quo won’t change. The rules relating to when you should kiss or sleep with a man are pure trash too since it depends on each situation, while going Dutch isn’t that much of a deal.


  749. @RV I came upon your Site about 6 months ago.You threw up videos which were quite interesting.You spoke quite rapidly,although coherently.I also noticed you had the stereotypical East Eoropean bad dye-blonde hair.I believe you shut down your Site due to Muslim intimidation.I am glad you continue to resist Gorbachev”s obligatory anti-white jewish hate-speech.Perhaps one day,Gorbachev will be subject to the same laws as Wilders.One can only hope.


  750. on October 24, 2010 at 9:38 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Blue, the girl in those videos wasn’t me. I frigging said that in the comments too. LOL

    And there’s no anti-white Jewish hate speech. I don’t really think that Lincoln, for example, was a Jew. Besides, Jews, just like blacks, would have been completely irrelevant provided we wouldn’t have made either of them citizens. Jews, just like Muslims, can be annoying. But that’s about it – any control either of them has is due to the fault of white men. Just like feminism is the fault of white men – it’s not like we crushed white men in battle to get the vote.


  751. RV says, “Please, black people are even worse at fighting than Arabs and Arabs are truely inept.”

    Blah blah blah, and yet you’re being overrun.

    :: snipping the rest of the sad testament of blind self pity ::

    Look, as a woman, all you need to be worried about is how you’re going to secure and properly support a good White man. The rest is irrelevent backwards rationalization of an impulse that doesn’t require it since it’s natural.

    Ditch the self pity, and you’ll become much more pleasant company, which will be important when you lose your youth.


  752. on October 24, 2010 at 9:53 pm rebelliousvanilla

    Nicole, for someone that claims to have a high IQ, you should have posts that reflect that, not posts that retards with IQ in the range of room temperatures would post.

    I didn’t really notice winning a war. When it will come to war, and it will, I have no doubt that we will win. In case you didn’t figure it out, all the immigrants in Europe are in big cities and most of them in ghettos. It’s not that hard to seal those ghettos off with the military and cut all the utilities. Or make their lives hell to such a degree that they all leave. The fact that they’re all congregated in the same places shows how intelligent they are. lol. If they were intelligent, not only they’d get geographically dispersed, but they’d also join the military.

    Also, my post was fairly confident in nature. I don’t see how it is self pity. But I suppose you were projecting, considering that earlier on this thread you were whining about how obese ugly girls like you can’t X or Y.

    As I said, the bankruptcies of most European states and of America, which is the enforcer of progressive insanity around the world will not come at a better timing. If Europeans get to being half of Europe and 5% of the world population, we could still easily lord over all Arabs and Africans. Easily. The real problem I have is competition from Asia.


  753. rebelliousvanilla has too much a mascuine nature to be a real woman. Why are you eagar to kill people?


  754. RV, all your trash talk is just that: trash talk.

    It is a shame that you refuse to, or are perhaps unable to learn what it is that I tried to teach you.

    Now, I’m just happy to let time and nature do its work.

    Like many teenagers, you think someone trying to help you is trying to harm you when we’re just trying to illuminate the road that lies ahead of you.

    It’s okay though. Some people learn through the eyes and ears, and some learn through the ass.


  755. Randall P. and Morsellaux, good comments. Yes, the Athol Kay piece is great. I recommend his website.

    And the first flake should be dealt with firmly on the very next date: a single sharp neg should do the trick, for example, at the beginning of the next date: “I’m expecting twice as much of you this time”, or at the end “that was fun, looks like I was right to give you another chance”.

    The second way is more effective if done right, because she will have been congratulating herself on having gotten away with flaking before. You should always notice and remember uncooperative behavior, but it’s better to wait for a good time to make an issue of it.

    Girls, I’m sorry, but the race stuff is tedious. I’d rather hear more about what you have to say about men and women, where I can actually learn something from your POVs.

    By the way, if anyone is interested, I’ve finally decided to start blogging; click on my name to get there.


  756. I heard about The Rules a little earlier this year. I just felt it was quite pretentious to play game consciously. The idea of playing game itself is a bit of desperation anyway.

    Mind explaining more about The Rules? Not the rules itself but more like the amount of people who follow them, whether it really works or not..etc.


  757. There is different set of requirement for lady gamers,,dear bling bling!!


  758. Bling, the problem isn’t having rules. It’s following Ellen Fein’s and Sherry Schneider’s rules.

    They have a huge following of overly entitled women, but I’ve never met or spoken to anyone who says they actually work…and I talk to a lot of people about relationships and have plagued many relationships communities online in my day.

    Playing hard to get, unless you