Done and

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ou36b9mx5d44h31

Done

The advice she gets on a site like this is the best advice she will get because it is coming from men who are being 100% honest. In other words, the things wiritten on this site are thought but left unspoken by each and every one of these “men of quality” of which you speak.

Or, as R-Kelly would say, this is Real Talk.

This is the big concern (from the info we have) and where a tremendous amount of strength must come in. It would be extraordinarily difficult, but it can be done.

Self-sacrifice is very noble- to a degree- then it becomes unwarranted martyrdom.

When it comes to the lives of one’s children I simply disagree. if takes martyrdom to bring what’s best for them, then I think that is what must be done. There is a reason the Church holds martyrs in such great esteem.

I’d be interesting to hear examples of children thriving in situations where a parent stays in a relationship with a cheating spouse.

I couldn’t find much. It’s not something often done today and I’m not sure how much it was done in the past either. I did, find this one account. It’s very long, but I recommend reading it through the end. You asked me once to post about women of strength. Women who are worth admiring. You might not find it the case with this woman, but I absolutely do. Her strength is astounding and I admire her greatly for what she was able to accomplish in such a horrible situation. She talks about God a lot. It might turn some off, but faith is what got her and her children through it and she is joyful. It is possible, only amazingly difficult.

Thank you for continuing the conversation, Kate.

Because she chose him in the first place, her judgment is suspect, and she may not have any idea of what is truly best. Self-sacrifice is very noble- to a degree- then it becomes unwarranted martyrdom. A woman who entered and maintained a marriage in good faith is different than a woman who, herself, sabotaged the relationship. In that case, she must reap what she has sown.

I think sin affects in invisible ways. Someone may not even be able to identify what is wrong, but its there. I’d be interesting to hear examples of children thriving in situations where a parent stays in a relationship with a cheating spouse.

By the way, I respect that you are engaging in this conversation.

I’ve done this. But have you considered for a moment that the children may not be aware? That they may never be aware? I have no reason to assume they are being affected as whitewoman did not say either way.

But they can tire themselves out wasting their energy on lost causes and end up with nothing for themselves.

What they have for themselves is the knowledge that they did right by their children (again, assuming they are not being harmed).

my point is that she has a perfect *right* to.

Of course she does, but she also has the right to stay if she deems it best. I simply do not assume that the husband is doing anything to hurt the children. Is he hurting her? Of course, but she knew that from the beginning and went ahead with her family. Her family is her focus now, not herself.

it means bringing women into the fold, not alienating them. And it means acknowledging that there are times when they have legitimate reasons for divorce and that men are also responsible for marital breakdowns.

I am going to treat women how they say they wish to be treated. If they start a conversation, then it’s something they wanted to discuss. If people pile on her (and I mean truly pile on her. Not respond in kind) then I will put a stop to it. People will make a comment and others will respond in the manner they were addressed. I’ll not moderate that. It’s part of being an adult and Ashley knew that as I assume most of the women who come to my site will.

I absolutely acknowledge there are legitimate reasons for divorce. I thought I made that very plain from all the mentions of serious harm and it is quite obvious that men are sometimes responsible for marital breakdowns. Is it so hard to see that a man’s sin may not be affecting his children at all? That he is capable of discretion, even while doing wrong? That it would be just as wrong, if not a level worse, to break up a family when the children are ok, thriving even? Maybe I am wrong to assume this, but I think it equally wrong to simply assume that he is blatant in his indiscretions and subjecting the children to it as he subjects his wife.

I will be mindful of my pronouns here on out.

No, you should not stand by ideas you don’t agree with, but you have set yourself up as a role model for women and, if you take that seriously, it means bringing women into the fold, not alienating them. And it means acknowledging that there are times when they have legitimate reasons for divorce and that men are also responsible for marital breakdowns.

The use of the pronoun sort of illustrates my point. “I” is offensive to men, not women (except when used exponentially and then it’ll even bug me). Thank you for your apology. I know I’ve done something similar in the past in couselling someone, so its something I need to be careful not to do as well.