In seduction, honesty is not the best policy. A man learns from experience to conceal some of what he is thinking because no matter how much a woman says she wants to know his true feelings, she would rather not.
Hiding my opinions from a woman I am trying to bed is a tactical maneuver, not a fear-based beta instinct. There is a difference between bending your opinions to appease the girl and refraining from excessive candor so as not to unnecessarily drive her away. If I think a girl’s hobbies suck, what good does it do me to tell her that? It is not alpha to be so cavalier in your opinions that you shit all over the things she cherishes most.
Women don’t operate like men. A misplaced word or criticism can turn them off instantly. A woman may want to have sex with you after the first fifteen minutes, but her horniness can be easily reversed if you sever the connection with disagreements that go to the heart of how she sees herself. Unless you are a low-testosterone man who won’t mind the long stretches of celibacy resulting from sticking by your principled honesty, deep-seated differences in opinion should only be shared after sex when the possibility of a long term relationship is evident.
Now I don’t advocate lying. There is a middle ground between complete candor and bald-faced lies. Massaging the truth is the best way to describe it. Some may call this manipulation. Is it manipulation if I speak honestly but say it in such a way that my chances of success are maximized? And if that is manipulation, is it wrong?
The fact is, there would be very little hooking up at all if men decided en masse to be totally honest with women. I think men could handle women telling them they only like them for their high status job or their swagger, but could women handle being told by men that dinner was on them only because they think this will buy them a titty fuck? Or that all they can think about when she is blathering on about crystal therapy or her non-profit job is what she looks like naked and what it would be like to make love to her all night long?
Let’s be honest. Honesty falls in the category of those values we all say we want from others, but really don’t.
I responded again to your Plowing post without having read your most recent one, but my advice doesn’t differ. Never did I advocate complete and utter honesty about everything when dealing with women. As the old saying goes, “discretion is the better part of valor”.
The scenario you described was that you had already said whatever it was that pissed her off. Thus, the issue was not whether to say something, but rather how to react when she tried to use what you said to shit test you or as an excuse to avoid another date. Under those circumstances, I’d be polite but unapologetic. If she is shit testing you, then any answer that exuded confidence would be sufficient (an apology would be the exact opposite, unless it was “I’m sorry you feel that way but….”) If she is merely giving a flimsy excuse to avoid another date, you’re not getting laid anyway, so you’ve lost nothing.
You’re right about wanting honesty. Most people don’t.
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After reading your blog for the past several months, I can make the following observation:
Many of the topics and tactics you describe as being exclusive to male sexual strategy are in fact also part of the female strategy. Women are never 100% honest with men, and we never should be. This post applies to women as much as it does to men. You massage the the truth to get sex, we massage the truth to keep you. Furthermore, the social intelligence you posess is great, and it should be noted that many points you make are not limited to sexual relationships, but can be applied to friends, co-workers, relatives, etc. as well.
In essence, sexual relationships are just one sub-type of human social relationships, and operate under many of the same rules.
I’m a dork.
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Jeez, Roissy, it’s like it’s all about sex to you.
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my avocation is sex
but my religion is love.
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I encourage you all to read Robert Greene’s book The Art of Seduction. Be careful it will teach you something about yourself and others. Don’t worry, it’s not like that stupid book “The Game”. That’s for dumb fucks who really only need to approach the drunkest girl in the bar, show his feathers (popped collar, pre-torn douchebag jeans, flip-flops and frosty tipped spike hair) and pay for her cab home. It’s an amazingly accurate book in my humble opinion. I also recommend Ovid’s book, The Art of Love. It got him booted out of Rome in like 15 A.D. or something and believe me humans haven’t really evolved much since then.
These books all help me to imagine what it would be like to slay some beautiful make-up caked, east coast preppy G-town skank if I wasn’t wasting tax payer dollars by reading this blog right now.
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Does anybody really go for a “titty fuck” anymore? It never occurred to me.
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Yes, Roissy, this idea works, but blanket statemens are never good and it only works with SOME women. The other 50 percent will think the guy is a pussyfooting beta with no opinions and dismiss them. I’ve seen women really into guys, then turn off because they felt the men were empty shells.
Another approach is the deliberately in-your-face one, where you confront women with what they want to hear but are too afraid to ask for. It’s hard to explain this approach, but it boils down to: If they drone on about sex too much ask about sex abuse; if they mention food confront them with eating disorder talk and ask if ther is a dominating mom lurking in the background.
When they ask what’s up with you (which they will) say, “Well, I guess I can lie to you and tell you what you want to hear — which is what all the guys who want to get into your pants do. And you can continue to live in Fantasyland. Or I can talk to you like an adult. Your choice.” If she takes to this, it creates a very emotionally-intense intimacy — an almost “bubble like” state of mind between you and the woman, and it can be potent enough to draw YOU in if you’re not careful.
The above works for me. Someone once wrote an online poem about me called “Nailed,” because she felt I was the only person to uncover her “real” self. Maybe I shouldn’t be giving away my secrets…
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Top not shit. Fantastic thoughts and fantastic writing.
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“A misplaced word or criticism can turn them off instantly. A woman may want to have sex with you after the first fifteen minutes, but her horniness can be easily reversed if you sever the connection with disagreements that go to the heart of how she sees herself.” Or how she sees you.
This is my favorite post thus far.
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But you’re disillusioned if you think men can handle the truth better than women. “Sorry, but you’re penis isn’t even of average size…” No man can handle that kind of truth.
And while the half-truths work in seduction, they are the reason why so many relationships fail.
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and yes there is a typo in my second comment
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hi sent u an email can u attend to it
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I don’t know, Roissy. Your posts on this blog are really sexy (and it’s not just you, it’s any guy laying it out there), so even though honesty may not work in a date setting, it could work in other settings. That may just be me, with my 5 or whatever attractiveness rating, liking the honest side of guys more.
Assuming you are mostly honest on these posts.
I do actually believe that honesty in most settings is unworkable. However, keeping all the deception and half-truths straight…?
Is honesty attractive to men? Or is it a failing of women that sometimes they’re too honest — or too negative — a lot of the time?
I remember a guy who constantly argued with and criticised his girl (my friend). She dumped him as soon as she could find someone else that’s attractive willing to consistently warm her bed (which, with her *cough* “assets”, wasn’t difficult).
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Interesting post. Oprah and pop culture pays great homage to the “honesty” concept. Cheat on your wife? Tell her cuz you gotta be “honest.” Sleep with the whole football team on the same night in college? You should tell your fiance to be “honest.”
It’s all bullshit, of course. If you love your wife and that floozie at the convention really was a one-time outlier, then if you want to have a happy marriage do NOT tell your wife. Similarly, do not tell your fiance what a tramp you were in college. It won’t change a thing anyway and will only do damage.
Oprah and her ilk have done such terrible damage to the psychological health of our great nation.
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Sleep with the whole football team on the same night in college?
Actually, I’d prefer to know that fact. It helps to determine her future sexual output, and if she’s underperforming. If she fucked an entire football field in one night, and she won’t give me a decent blowjob, well, quite frankly, I’m getting scammed and she’s not worth it.
Another score for sexbots. No selective and variable output.
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Azuzuru–
There’s the honesty of answering questions (confrontations?) truthfully. That takes integrity and courage.
Then there’s the “honesty” of offering up info not requested. That is stupidity.
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“A woman may want to have sex with you after the first fifteen minutes, but her horniness can be easily reversed if you sever the connection with disagreements that go to the heart of how she sees herself.”
I agree with this statement. Reading people is critical when conversing with them. You must pay attention to what they say and how they say it, and then mimic both until they feel comfortable with you. This does not contradict what I mentioned in my comments on the other thread, namely, that you should be direct and not simply pander to a woman just to get into her panties. A sestamibi put it, answer with courage when asked, but don’t volunteer if you’re not. Most people have problems with both of these.
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tracylord – it’s my experience that men can handle the truth better than women can. men are just more in touch with reality because they have to be — if they live in la la land they can expect to never get laid. they are not, on average, the in-demand sex and they don’t have the power of looks that women have to coast by on.
the analogy to telling a guy he has a small dick is a bit off. that is more of a pointed insult than an abstract truth, and anyhow i doubt many men would walk away from sex if the woman who told him he had a small dick was still interested in sleeping with him (again). that is one of the main differences between men and women — mere words won’t put a guy off from the ultimate goal of pussy.
B – oh, it’s just me. 😉 the benefit of honesty is highly contextual. critical remarks of a personal nature are counterproductive, but being honest about my opinions on things that matter to me is attractive to women. it’s cool for a guy to lay out his standards, but not cool to indict his date for failing to live up to those standards. unless she deserved it, of course.
DA – what if she gave you an incompetent blowjob but said she loves you?
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what if she gave you an incompetent blowjob but said she loves you?
She gets relegated to the female friend zone and is promptly replaced by a health diet of the Suck It Dry series by Johnny Darko. 🙂
Seriously, I’d go crazy if a girl loved me but had awful blowjob skills. It’s not really worth it to go through that much frustration, and I’m in no mood to cheat on my girlfriend to get a decent blowjob. OTOH, most women suck at blowjobs when compared to their cockworshiping counterparts in porn, and many view it as an unpleasant chore, so maybe it wouldn’t make a difference.
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Good post… there is a difference between honesty and confession or letting people read your thoughts.
To me honesty is about not lying, yet I don’t have to share everything with a stranger for we all have the rights to keep our thoughts to ourselves.
what is mainly important in my opinion is to be honest with her in regards to what I want and not beating around the bush…perhaps beating the bush instead 😉
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I advocate lying.
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