I have this old friend who used to be a guy’s guy. Loved guy stuff , did guy things, and nurtured fierce loyalty to his guy clan of close buddies. He was a ferocious looking beast with a barrel chest as deep as it was wide who could hip check and shoulder blast his way through any club crowd to get to the bar or a girl he wanted to meet. His bumpngrinding was legendary. As was his profuse sweating, which beaded up in great rivulets on his expansive simian brow as he danced under the hot club lights, stopping only to dab at the torrent of perspiration with fistfuls of cocktail napkins. He was a magnificent distillation of pure testosterone.
We called him Silverback.
Then he met a girl, and suddenly Saturday afternoons were dedicated to throw pillow shopping.
Then he moved in with this girl, and his high-flying nightlife rompnstomping days were over.
Then he married this girl, and he dove headfirst into climbing the corporate ladder knowing one day he’d have to support a family in that perfect city for raising kids… Manhattan.
Now we hardly ever hear from him except for those times when his beloved is busy doing her own thing and he has a minute to spare in between catering to her needs. This usually amounts to a 1.5 minute interim phone call from a park bench while he’s waiting to pick up his wife from her vegetarian yoga class. Or, even better, a 30 second shout out from inside a cab when it is obvious from the background sound of his wife sitting next to him talking to someone else on her phone that he has been granted a brief window of opportunity to call a buddy. The phone call invariably ends as soon as his wife’s call is over.
Me: So how much time you got left to talk?
Silverback: Come on, man, you know I can talk as long as I like.
Me: She’s still on the line, then?
Silverback: She does her own thing, I do mine.
Me: OK, so how’s the new job going?
Silverback’s Wife: Hey, honey, that was XXX. Who’re you talking to?
Silverback: Gotta go, bro. *CLICK*
Now his wife is pretty, and young, and headstrong, and probably out of his league, so it’s understandable that he’d bend a little to accommodate her lifestyle.
But to go from Silverback to this?
take me boutique shopping!
The crack of that whip echoed through the hills and valleys of the Kingdom of Manhood.
somebody sounds a wee bit jealous…lol
xoxo
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perhaps u follow in his footstep and know that someday the game ends. its time to do something more with life than skirtchasing.
either way, one is who one is and nutin should hcange that. u decide to hold ur head high.
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i see thoough that u miss him. i lost a friend like that too, and was i like… what happened to days long gone. everyone one does what they have got to do.
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“As was his profuse sweating, which beaded up in great rivulets on his expansive simian brow as he danced under the hot club lights, stopping only to dab at the torrent of perspiration with fistfuls of cocktail napkins.”
Unrelated… but a lot of your posts seem to start out sounding like porn stories….
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Your buddy’s decline into whipdom happens to every man.
It happened to me. Women have been given power through a mass marketing/propaganda program that started in the late 1960’s.
Castrating a man so that the woman can feel secure and in control is pure selfishness and egomania on the part of the woman. The man is no longer free to pursue higher levels of problem solving….for himself and for his country.
The rapid decline in society since the 60’s is evident.
There’s no great men anymore because there’s no great women anymore.
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This story sounds like that of every other guy that is married in Manhattan and I suspect its true for many that marry out of their league too.
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I think the male frustration is seeing how quickly your male friends can change their lifestyle– not even necessarily because their wife/girlfriend makes them, but it almost seems voluntary. which is frightening, to see your male buddy self-emasculate in months.
So let me throw a question out to the women, so you can post something useful rather than interpreting Roissy’s post as some sort of ‘victory’ for you or ‘jealous’ on his part–
Do you see this same behavior happen with your closest girlfriends?
Is it some leftover genetic coding that puts family first ahead of individuality (for either gender)? Or just weak/insecure (of either gender) people glad to find acceptance from the opposite sex?
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Just because this happens to *some* men does not mean that the women they are with have “castrated” them.
Either it means that they gone into nesting mode because it makes them happy, or it is a personality flaw of their own that allows their partner to take control of their lives.
Of course it happens to women. Probably more so. I can’t count how many close friends I have lost because they have gone into nesting mode.
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I remember the days when mighty Silverback and I would go to bars together. Ah, those were the days, before he would get mad at me for the slightest little joke about his profuse sweating, or his ever-expanding midsection, or the tornado-like path of destruction he would leave in his wake at the build-yer-own salad bar.
He used to think that if I didn’t hang out with him in Manhattan that I was sitting at home alone. He probably doesn’t even know I’ve had a girlfriend for the last 5 months, a former CK jeans model from Europe.
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@GJ:
He has no close girlfriends, they’ve all been slain by his meat sword.
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What’s even worse is when the guy hits the streets again, either through divorce or a break up. It’s like a poor, abused, defenseless animal being let back into the wild. Their so helpless one can’t help but feel bad for him. You just want to give him a layup or some girl who’ll realize he’s been through a traumatic event and will just pity bang him.
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Silverback is a guy who used to destroy the buffet table and walk back with four plates balanced on his arms and a dessert platter on his head.
now? now he’s eating bean sprout muffins.
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“There’s no great men anymore because there’s no great women anymore.”
It’s a societal issue. I have very few female friends because of this problem. The problem is that men are told to want the kind of woman who loves to shop, get her nails done, doll up for looking glamorous, and listen to endless drivel about perfecting a man. So these are the types of women that exist in abundance.
“a mass marketing/propaganda program”
The country in general is spawning an entire generation of kids who refuse to grow up, who are coddled, ignorant, selfish, never able to compromise, drink and dine themselves into stupors, and find all worth in materialism, hedonism and superficial appearances. It’s good for the economy.
Also see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusion_of_control
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Um, Roissy, didn’t you write this a while back?
“I do not think the current reality of endless dating can last. Something must give. Either humans will evolve into different social animals capable of withstanding decades of hookups and fragmentary relationships without turning to the comforts of cats and internet porn, or those people who serially date and delay childbirth will not have enough kids and natural selection will remove them from the gene pool as a failed experiment. Either way, change is in the air.”
Posted in Ugly Truths | 3 Comments
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Do you see this same behavior happen with your closest girlfriends?
I’ve seen this behavior happen just once, and it was a guy. His wife won’t even let him chat with his friends during his working hours when she is not there anyway.
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Q: u date a former CK model? You cant even catch a current one coz she sees herself as outside of ur league.
you having tom flaunt is souns like a lil neediness. look at me i am the alpha gorilla (pumping chest while syaing it)
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The problem is that men are told to want the kind of woman who loves to shop, get her nails done, doll up for looking glamorous, and listen to endless drivel about perfecting a man
Those women are more desirable because they’re better looking since they spend more money on their appearance. Had one of my female friends dressed a bit sluttier and spent more time on hair, makeup, and nails, maybe I would have considered dating her. Of course, I’m biased because of my acrylic nail fetish…
His wife won’t even let him chat with his friends during his working hours when she is not there anyway.
That’s sad, IMHO. Aren’t those the type of things that one should detect in the pre-marriage phase of the relationship?
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“Those women are more desirable because they’re better looking since they spend more money on their appearance. Had one of my female friends dressed a bit sluttier and spent more time on hair, makeup, and nails, maybe I would have considered dating her. Of course, I’m biased because of my acrylic nail fetish…”
Precisely my point. Men complain about women’s spending habits when this behavior produces what they want. Women now only work on their external appearances without any regard to their personalities, because that is what men look for, and what they look is conditioning provided by society, culture and mass media. By the way, my husband has a nail fetish, but he doesn’t like acrylic fake nails. He wasn’t born with it, so where did it come from?
People can’t be forced to be attracted to what they do not want to be attracted to once they are past a certain age, but they can be conditioned, Pavlovian-style, from early youth and adolescence, to be attracted to certain types of women. An orgasm is one of the most powerful ways to perform classical conditioning, so your attraction to women in porn is obvious, immediate, and constantly reinforced.
“If you associate orgasm with your wife, a kiss, a scent, a body, that is what, over time, will turn you on; if you open your focus to an endless stream of ever-more-transgressive images of cybersex slaves, that is what it will take to turn you on. The ubiquity of sexual images does not free eros but dilutes it.”
However, it makes a ton of money. Just follow the money, and everything becomes clearer.
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There’s nothing really wrong with nesting. I mean, what’s the point of staying out until 3 am if you always go home with the same person?
It’s Silverback’s own fault. You have to balance your relationship with your friendships. The problem isn’t that Silverback’s wife is a harpy, the problem is that guys like Silverback won’t put in the basic effort to maintain his friendships. People get settled and get lazy, and men in particular don’t put much effort into friendships to begin with. The calls ease down to a trickle, and nobody wants to plan anything. Then they encourage their buddies to blame the “harpy” wives…when, really, it’s their own fault.
It’s entirely possible that his wife is controlling, but it’s far more likely that he’s lazy.
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You just described have the guys I used to be friends with… Its funny cause I had a Halloween party last week (4th year in row I’ve had it) and none of these guys showed. They all had to go to their wive’s friends this or that… it was pathetic. C’mon grow some balls.
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Your dream!
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Precisely my point. Men complain about women’s spending habits when this behavior produces what they want.
I don’t mind if my g/f & s/o spent money on looking good. As long as it isn’t excessive and ruins us financially, I really don’t care since I’m the direct beneficiary of her expenditures in this area. If anything, it would increase my attraction to her, which should make her feel better.
By the way, my husband has a nail fetish, but he doesn’t like acrylic fake nails. He wasn’t born with it, so where did it come from?
Maybe for me, it comes from living in a black neighbourhood and living in a part of the country where it’s commonplace for working and middle class white women of varying ages to get their nails done, especially with acrylics. It may also have a connection with porn since many porn stars do get their nails done, but I’ve had this fetish before I liked porn. I prefer long acrylic nails over their nature counterparts because they tend to be shinier and better looking than their natural counterparts.
Maybe your husband was exposed to that type of environment? Maybe he views long nails as a sign of femininity.
However, it makes a ton of money. Just follow the money, and everything becomes clearer.
From my perspective, when I was a bit younger, say maybe four or five years ago, when I transitioned from simple Maxim-esque photos and erotic literature into real porn, the big difference is that the women in porn to me just simply look better than their real life counterparts. The makeup, nails, clothing, tattoos, and the styling of these features creates a sexual look that regular don’t bring out immediately. Maybe it’s a function of my sex drive or some other underlying issue, but I wouldn’t say that porn induced my tastes. Instead, I’d argue that porn caters and satiates my desires for a hypersexualualized look in women. Before I watched porn, but when I read erotic literature, there were a number of girls that I was romantically attracted to, but I never thought of them in a sexual fashion. Even the simple notion of kissing them was foreign.
In short, Hope, I’d hesitate from blaming porn for this condition.
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i think sometimes people loose themselves in their relationship. like silverback. whay a name. u have to balance and not forget how life used to be. like shannon said, dont forget ur friends. when u start to, gf got to go. and besides have u heard of stooping to win. dating courting is where u get to know ur partners. if it aint working, got to go but i think some people marry out of pity. sad.
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Roissy–has there been some sort of intervention attempted by you or your friends?
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“In short, Hope, I’d hesitate from blaming porn for this condition.”
I actually have my own collection of porn, so I’m just as culpable. In fact, I do think that the satiation of such desires make us more inert to real human interaction. Constantly retreating to fantasy worlds (of which I am guilty more than most others) means not being grounded in reality. And that’s more harmful than at first glance.
I wasn’t pointing to porn exclusively, but this society and culture, of which porn is just a part. Nothing you said refuted this point, and it is part of your and his upbringing that brought out these fetishes, and they are reinforced through classical conditioning.
“I’d argue that porn caters and satiates my desires for a hypersexualualized look in women.”
Asian countries tend to fetishize cute, juvenile women as opposed to hyper sexualized women, hence the youthful look of many Asian women. There is no moral imperative, no right or wrong — only cause and effect.
“the big difference is that the women in porn to me just simply look better than their real life counterparts.”
Movies, Hollywood, books, etc. are just emotional porn for women. The idealized versions of men are certainly better than their real life counterparts. Similarly with idealized versions of women. The result is chronically dysfunctional relationships and objectification of both men and women.
“there were a number of girls that I was romantically attracted to, but I never thought of them in a sexual fashion. Even the simple notion of kissing them was foreign.”
Observation, could be false: you sound like you’ve never truly been in love.
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“As was his profuse sweating, which beaded up in great rivulets on his expansive simian brow as he danced under the hot club lights, stopping only to dab at the torrent of perspiration with fistfuls of cocktail napkins.”
Porn? It sounds like the Island of Dr. Moreau…
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I think that this is the fate of a lot of so-called “alpha” males in the US, if not the majority of them.
BTW, I don’t mean pseudo-alphas, or people we have mistakenly labeled alphas. I mean the genuine article. The reason I say so-called is that in actuality, I believe that the American alpha male is not really what he’s cracked up to be.
He is vulnerable to this ultimate fate. And he’s probably resigned to it. In fact, this may be the dirty little secret of the American alpha male.
Maybe American alpha-ism is not so much an “internal jihad”, where a man struggles within himself in order to better himself and achieve self-dominance, but rather a superficial competition with other males to see who can achieve the “American dream” of the best-looking mate, the biggest house, most investments, and the most toys.
As Iggy Pop so aptly wrote in “Wild America”, Americans want “bigger houses… taller kids… slaves!”
In other words, the American male is taught that self-actualization means doing better than everyone else, besting them, and getting over on them.
Once the typical American “alpha” has achieved the best of everything (including that 9 or 10 wife), he can rest, and inevitably becomes the henpecked, pussy-whipped husband.
And he probably doesn’t really care, because the only thing that really ever mattered the most to him was out-competing all the other guys, not actually being satisfied himself.
This is just a theory of mine, like all the other theories put forward here… I may be wrong, but judging by the way a lot of married Yuppie couples looked, walking through the local Home Depot or whatever Saturday mornings in the more affluent parts of the DC suburbs, this seemed to be about right to me. (What I’m referring to is the self-satisfied and superior look on the wives, and the resigned, almost puppy-dog like look on most of the husbands.)
This fate seems to be the norm, in fact, for most white, affluent, DC area couples. The guy rakes in six figures as a beltway bandit government consultant, and his gorgeous former PR bunny wife quits working and starts decorating their new house in Chantilly with truckloads of Martha Stewart and Overstock.com shit, and they live “happily” ever after. Right?
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I’m old enough to have seen just this happen to several friends. Oddly, they have all been without fail hyper-masculine, high-T Silverback types. Why that type is so susceptible to permanent and instant conversion to the gynecological-flagellant lifestyle is a mystery to me. The hairier they are, the harder they fall, I guess.
Sic transit gloria viri!
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This story touched me deeply, so tragic, yet strangely familiar. I need a few moments alone…………….
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A man’s friendships are, like his will, invalidated by marriage – but they are also no less invalidated by the marriage of his friends. — Samuel Butler
If the most enjoyable parts of your friendship with this guy was nightclubs and picking up women, even with all the camaraderie, it was going to fade away he got married. Plus he moved out of town. My condolences but them’s the breaks.
For me, the really sad part of that story is that this Falstaff-type has married a quasi vegetarian who has successfully forced him to eat this girly diet. Like the world needs more prissy eaters. Before you know it, he’ll soon have a food allergy.
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To G-heads and evo-psych people like the ones who hang out here, there should be nothing strange in the spectacle of a “high-T” man embracing marriage and domesticity with eagerness. It’s connected to that very testosterone, the need to mate, and the wish for personal survival.
Are not high-testosterone men known to be rather poor at taking care of themselves? Don’t they tend to die rather young, without a woman to look after them? Better to live longer in a woman’s company than die young among male friends who egg them on in their tomfooleries. “Oh yeah, do it again, Jake! Show us how you drank a bottle scotch in 20 minutes/dove into the quarry without knowing how deep the water was/picked a fight with the mugger/spent 20 paycheques on a Porsche/drove from Toronto to Miami for a glass of orange juice [a real stunt by some friends of mine]!”
With friends like that, a man needs a wife to survive to age 40.
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WTFH is it with women and the vegetarianism and the wierd food fads and the non-profits and the general insanity anyways?
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Nothing wrong with vegetarianism. There’s nothing macho about eating defenseless animals that were cruelly slaughtered and conveniently packaged in your local supermarket.
But yeah, even as a recent college grad in NYC all my friends who get into relationships neglect their male social circle and it leads to a cycle of increasing dependence on the female partner.
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There’s an old Rolling Stones song that deals with this. It’s on their “Hot Rocks, Vol. 2” compilation and it’s called “Sitting on a Fence.”
When I first heard this I was in eighth grade (it was already an oldie then, I’m not that old!). It’s dismal view of marriage scarred and scared me for life.
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Hey, I see nothing strange in that. The whole point of going out to clubs and bars is not “to dance” or “to party” like some people say but to pick up girls.
And if you know you got a wife waiting at home so there’s no way you’re taking a girl there, why even bother? Better rent a movie and chill out.
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@did i say this: Please type coherently, and then maybe I’ll take your inane insults seriously. kthxbye.
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It is interesting that the precipitous decline in circulating testosterone in most men coincides with the age in which most men tend to marry.
Statistically, men in marriages live longer than their single counterparts. That has always been a mystery to me because the only skill set a modern woman has is shopping.
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The most important reason to have a crew of guy friends is to have people to chase hot bitches with. Besides that and watching sports, what else are guys supposed to do together? Once you get the hot bitch, then all you got is the sports.
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DF,
You can also look at racial disparities in testosterone, and its correlation with lifespan. It also correlates well with illegitimacy rates in the US.
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If she improved Silverback’s diet, that is a good thing. He has averted the heart attack that was once guaranteed.
But if she has taken away the joy from his life, it is a bad thing.
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