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Chateau Heartiste

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Polls and New Hampshire

January 10, 2008 by CH

Polling is becoming an amazingly accurate science. The Rasmussen exit polls in New Hampshire were within 1-2% of the actual final numbers for all the candidates… except two. Hillary and Obama. The exit polls there were off by 10%, and some polling companies had those two wrong by up to 15%. Rasmussen predicted an Obama win by 7% that ended up being a Hillary win by 3%. It’s very revealing what this major polling discrepancy says about human nature and the conflict between what we secretly want for ourselves and how we’d like others to see us.

The fact that the polls were amiss in only the match-up between the Bitchcunt Queen of Cuntery and the guy who has an interesting Kenyan family connection that includes a Stanford educated half-brother he cut out of his life and a polygamous father the mainstream media don’t want to talk about suggests that it was not the polling science at fault but the answers given by the polled voters.

Basically, people lied.

But why? I have a couple theories.

  • A bunch of guilty white liberals getting hard ons from flagellating themselves before the High PC Priests lied to the pollsters about voting for Obama when they had voted for Her Holy Cuntiness. They said what they thought polite company wanted to hear (and probably what they themselves wanted to believe).

The problem with this theory is that white males voted for Obama over Hillary by almost the same wide margin that white women voted for Hillary over Obama. If it was solely the case of a bunch of closeted liberal racists getting cold feet at the last second, then we would see more white males joining the Hillary camp.

  • Aging white women flocked to Her Raging Id of Misandry not because she’s white, but because she’s a woman they could relate to. And a woman that is publicly reviled by the majority of men, including a lot of these women’s husbands and male family members. Women being what they are, they didn’t want to be seen in public as crassly voting based on gender, so they voted for the Galactic OverCunt in stealth.

I like the second theory better. Middle-aged dumpy hausfraus came out in force for the Ballcutting Cuntbag of Desiccated DykeCunts because they understood that a Hillary presidency would serve their interests.

Maxim #328: Underneath the veneer of civilized discourse we act in ways that are brazenly self-interested in the short term.

Addendum #328a: Seeking short term status is a matter of self-interest.

Washed up white women were propelled toward Hillary emotionally as well as calculatingly. While a Commander in Cunt would surely be a net negative for men (and Camille Paglia agrees with me) and a net positive for women in matters of policy, it was Hillary’s focus group-tested crocodile tears that sealed the deal. Women past their sexual prime felt Hillary’s pain. That moment of faux emotion was like a lighthouse beam beckoning them to shore. In evolutionary terms, people tolerate the suffering of a woman a lot less than the suffering of a man, and the beating Hillary was taking by the press up until the primary endeared her to her natural constituency. If Hillary were fertile-age and attractive, more men would have rallied to her side as well. But because she is long past hitting the wall, men did not feel the pull of chivalry like they normally do to an attractive woman in distress.

Hillary’s choking up before the cameras, fake or real, produced a rallying effect that would never work for a man. Any male candidate who got misty-eyed when asked about the toughness of campaigning would have paid a price at the polls as men, and women!, rightly pegged him as a pantywaist unworthy of leading a nation.

Well played, Hillary, well played.

Did she bring James Carville on board?

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Posted in Culture, Current Events | 56 Comments

56 Responses

  1. on January 10, 2008 at 6:38 pm rhymenocerous

    Meh, I think that the hotter a woman is, the worse her chances are for career advancement. My hypothesis is that guys would rather fuck a hot but smart woman, and there’s always this undercurrent of wanting to fuck her running through things (ie meetings) which charges the situation.

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  2. on January 10, 2008 at 6:51 pm DF

    If I were you, I would not follow poll data with these two for precisely the reasons you described. I follow intrade. Predictive markets are on average more reliable because participants put money where their mouth are. Funny how profit motivates people to unshackle themselves from the restraints of political correctness.

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  3. on January 10, 2008 at 7:10 pm Ben

    Do you have a Hillary nickname generator that combines various insulting words together? Hilarious stuff.

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  4. on January 10, 2008 at 7:18 pm Reggie

    …an interesting Kenyan family connection that includes a Stanford educated half-brother he cut out of his life and a polygamous father the mainstream media don’t want to talk about…

    What exactly is the relevance of any of these statements?

    1. “Kenyan family connection”: So what if they’re Kenyan?

    2. “Stanford-educated half-brother”: So what if he went to Stanford? Obama went to Harvard; does that make him somehow infallible? Maybe the brother is as much of a shitbag as you take Hillary to be and that’s why Obama cut him out of his life. We can’t say.

    3. “Polyamorous father”: Shouldn’t this make the father a hero to you? Sleeping with multiple women and trading up and all that? And if it is in fact a problem, why are you condemning the son for the sins of the father?

    I’m sort of surprised that you’re using all this family innuendo to judge Obama rather judging the man himself; his policies, beliefs, and actions. If you disagree with those, fine — at least they’re substantive disagreements.

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  5. on January 10, 2008 at 7:37 pm Lisa

    “1. “Kenyan family connection”: So what if they’re Kenyan?”

    Well Kenya is right next to Ethiopia. And Ethiopia is the country of origin of all that badass rasta goodness. If you can’t smell the ugali by now I can’t help you.

    Which btw, no one ever mentions Ethiopians when they’re talking about incredible women but they should.

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  6. on January 10, 2008 at 7:50 pm Phillip K. Dick

    “no one ever mentions Ethiopians when they’re talking about incredible women”

    Rightly so. You’re a woman so you wouldn’t know.

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  7. on January 10, 2008 at 8:33 pm Reggie

    Well, sure, but for a blogger who prides himself on cutting through putative bullshit and shining the harsh light of truth on PC dogma, repeating conservative attack talking points (“He doesn’t get along with his half-brother!”) is especially problematic.

    I’m not even going to bother with his Hillary attacks. I don’t agree with her positions either, but the almost-visible mouth-froth in this post was a bit much.

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  8. on January 10, 2008 at 8:59 pm Virgle Kent

    “Obama – with the same reservations – seems a pleasant but rather bland personality”

    WTF? Are we watching the same race and listening to the same speeches here. Dude is like a fucking rock star on the Kennedy tip. After listening to one of his speeches I was so moved I was about to quit my job and help abused Taco Bell employees regain their independence and trust in humanity once again. But then I jerked off and went to sleep and woke up the next morning like, “fuck that shit, sounds like too much work”. What were we talking about again?

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  9. on January 10, 2008 at 9:12 pm DF

    VK,

    That is the funniest ish I’ve read all week!

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  10. on January 10, 2008 at 9:18 pm John Smith

    Yeah…if you happened to watch Hillary’s speech after winning NH, the tears were gone and the consultant built robot was again there mouthing platitudes.

    The racist explanation used here isn’t totally convincing.

    The thing is, all the candidates are so mediocre that Obama and McCain are the only one’s who won’t bring about another era of partisan bickering.

    The whole entire frame of this issue is fascinating. Hillary tries to project a frame of being strong and in control. Because that is fundamentally at odds with her biology and social perception, people thought she wasn’t very human. She brings her image back to reality for a minute (as per consultant advice) and she’s human and gets the votes of…..people looking to elect a human being?

    Why are the pollsters and pundits more concerned with whether the crying was fake and what effect it had rather than facing the important question:

    Do we really want a President who’s going to cry if we have another 9/11?

    At least she’s not empty suit Romney or terror monger Guiliani, or recovered fat guy who doesn’t believe in evolution, but the standards are pretty low for this election.

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  11. on January 10, 2008 at 9:22 pm neu anonym

    14 John. “Do we really want a President who’s going to cry if we have another 9/11?”

    Crying is human. Why should men not cry? Aren’t we past that humanity killing attitude yet? Obviously not and it’s a shame.

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  12. on January 10, 2008 at 9:33 pm Hope

    Well, sure, but for a blogger who prides himself on cutting through putative bullshit and shining the harsh light of truth on PC dogma, repeating conservative attack talking points (”He doesn’t get along with his half-brother!”) is especially problematic.

    Politicians are merely vessels into which people pour their own prejudices, hopes and beliefs, transforming them into convenient symbols of either electability or contemptuous scorn. I am not surprised at all by his outburst vs. the veritable embodiment of post-modern feminism.

    the standards are pretty low for this election.

    As they are for just about every one of them. Those who are best suited to politics are the worst kind of human beings.

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  13. on January 10, 2008 at 9:47 pm Miik

    You must reallllly love Barbara Bush

    kill me now

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  14. on January 10, 2008 at 10:13 pm DF

    neu anonym, under no circumstances should a man cry about the difficulties of the task he has at hand. Girl do you even know what you’re asking for? A leader of men must be strong and crying in public is a display of weakness.

    Hillary pulled it off for two reasons. First, it is socially acceptable for women to cry and she looks like a woman (marginally) so other women relate to her whining. Second, she had a campaign aide grab her ball sack.

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  15. on January 10, 2008 at 10:28 pm Miik

    I don’t see emotions in Bush. His ex-drunk leftover reptilian brain remnants lets him do untold damage to us daily for the scraps they feed him.

    These guys are a disaster. They haven’t done anything for us in the six majority years. They have a fascinating “game” they play. Misdirection. Act tough – but let us get attacked in a complete surprise attack. Then borrow waaaay too much money and spend it on fucking everything – It helps if you know the owner of the company – he contributed *wink

    Misdirection gets you pussy. It gets them all of the big money – which is like pussy to them. They don’t have the game to get real pussy and they certainly have their enormous share of gay scandals.How could any man explain Barbara Bush? or explain the hundreds of gay prostitutes (see: Gannon) entering the white house.

    Did you see the inauguration parade? They had six thousand soldiers guarding the parade route. I have been here all of my life and it was never like that. It has been a slowly unreeling science fiction movie ever since.

    Their inside game plan is – slowly ruin everything.

    If you don’t “get” why then you probably don’t get women either. Misdirection – and now it’s their wealth and you’re not getting it back.

    You made some home equity you say? You were supposed to. So you’d keep quiet. While they … see?
    They have Penn and Tellered your ass and you get to pay the bill. Taxes. You don’t really think they are paying the bills do you? Misdirection. Cayman Islands. Loopholes. Screw the tax rate. Loopholes. Misdirection.

    game over – you have only one other game you can afford

    All this from people who suckled Barbara- eewww

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  16. on January 10, 2008 at 10:34 pm dchero

    Yeah, or independents that came out voted for McCain instead of Obama because polls had Obama winning easily and McCain in a battle with Romney. So when they were polled, they said the candidate they felt strongly for (Obama) even though they voted McCain because they felt an Obama victory was safe. Yeah, I’m right. Go me.

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  17. on January 10, 2008 at 11:09 pm neu anonym

    DF: You guys are so funny & witty. Truly.

    I’m displaying a great deal of purposeful ignorance here in asking; but was she crying out of happiness or sadness? With what I’m about to say, I’d be astounded if anyone here did not think I was full of shit, but tears always cause a shift in vibration or focus. If one is overflowing with either happiness or sadness, tears will shift you to a place that’s more comfortable. True, women can “turn on the tears” in a manipulative sense, but that’s not quite the same thing.

    BTW I take 100% responsibility for all of my viewpoints and have no problem defending them, but an actual live dialog might be more effective.

    “under no circumstances should a man cry about the difficulties of the task he has at hand.”

    Well I disagree with that, and as far as me asking for a “cryer” in the presidency? I’m quite apolitical, but what’s good for any human being should also be good for the president, I would imagine.

    Do you think there’s something wrong with crying in private? I think it’s one of reasons women go mad less than men; because temporarily they go mad everyday. A man goes on accumulating. Why collect? Men commit suicide more than women. Women TALK about committing suicide more, but rarely do it. Men almost never talk about it, but they actually commit suicide twice as often. So now we have a reptile for president who probably never cries–one wishes he WOULD have committed suicide a long time age.

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  18. on January 11, 2008 at 12:18 am neu anonym

    8/3/07 Reuters article that mentions Hillary Clinton

    “Angry Men Get Ahead While Angry Women Penalized: Study”

    http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/03/2960/

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  19. on January 11, 2008 at 12:28 am DF

    au anonym, I had no idea you found such low brow humor appealing. You must be a grimey chick.

    If you want to have a sob fest with your man everyday, letting him cry his eyes out on your shoulder because someone hurt his feelings at work or some such, thats fine. I guarantee you will feel an inexplicable revulsion to this man within two of such sessions. Trust me.

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  20. on January 11, 2008 at 12:38 am neu anonym

    24 DF: I do trust you. It’s a matter of degree. Daily sob fests would turn anyone off. I do my sobbing in private.

    And yes, I’m quite “grimey” in the mental sense, but squeaky clean in the physical sense. Violence can be shocking to me–but sex? Hard to imagine.

    There was a young fellow named Cary,
    Who got fucking the Virgin Mary,
    And Christ was so bored
    At seeing Ma whored
    That he set himself up as a fairy.

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  21. on January 11, 2008 at 12:47 am John Smith


    Crying is human. Why should men not cry? Aren’t we past that humanity killing attitude yet? Obviously not and it’s a shame.

    People are allowed to cry, that’s fine.

    The thing is, is that she allowed herself to cry IN PUBLIC. If this was the evening of 9/11, I turn my TV on and I want to feel PROTECTED by my president. I don’t want to hear any bs about things being tough. I want a strong president.
    (Of course, I also want a logical, non fanatic president who mistakes stubbornness for strength, but that’s a different story).

    Is she going to cry or get emotional when things get tough?

    Come on, people. We are electing the leader of the free world, not the next Oprah.


    As they are for just about every one of them. Those who are best suited to politics are the worst kind of human beings.


    Politicians are merely vessels into which people pour their own prejudices, hopes and beliefs, transforming them into convenient symbols of either electability or contemptuous scorn. I am not surprised at all by his outburst vs. the veritable embodiment of post-modern feminism.

    No offense, Hope, but I hear stuff like this all the time, and it usually comes from people who don’t know much about politics and think that by writing off everything as bs and useless they are justifying their own intellectual laziness.

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  22. on January 11, 2008 at 1:03 am Hope

    it usually comes from people who don’t know much about politics

    I read reddit, the BBC, the Telegraph, CNN, and AP news on a daily basis. I know quite a bit about politics, but I’m also cautious to give my support to any one candidate.

    Basically, I’m an independent, don’t have a political party and am rather disgusted with the political process, but it’s too important for me to ignore. I try to look past the ad hominems and want to be objective, but it’s hard when so much of journalism today is sensationalized.

    We are electing the leader of the free world, not the next Oprah.

    I quite liked Wesley Clark because he has extensive military experience, served as a general for many years, and only had a brief brush with politics but backed out of it quickly. He seems like the strong, old and wise man who would do the job of commander-in-chief well if only the media and the one of the two major parties gave him a chance. But I’m a realist and know that won’t happen, to the detriment of us all.

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  23. on January 11, 2008 at 1:34 am neu anonym

    26, John: No one answered me as far as whether she was crying out of happiness, sadness, being overwhelmed, etc. Was it just a few tears or a veritable flood? I can understand not wanting a cry baby for president, but was there really any harm done? Was she “out of control” by any reasonable standard? Or is this just something we need to accept. A woman president can only be so masculine, though I agree she must have a much greater degree of masculinity at work than at home. But a few tears does NOT necessarily denote weakness. We have the other extreme now; an automaton, but I can understand not wanting the pendulum to swing too far the other way, though it often does. And is it in fact true that we would be “less protected” because a leader shed a few tears? Are we in fact more protected NOW. In 3000 years there have been 5000 wars (or is it vice versa) so how protected have we actually been up to this point?

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  24. on January 11, 2008 at 1:48 am neu anonym

    Looked at the YouTube “Hillary Cries” fiasco and all I can say, is that was not much of a cry, but still she’s a politician talking the same garbage about “we do what we do because we love our country”…blah, blah, blah. Personally, I do what I do mainly because I love MYSELF….Hillary!!!!

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  25. on January 11, 2008 at 2:48 am virgle Kent

    Yo son,

    I heard that John Kerry is backing Obama! Analyst say that Hillary will have to cry tears of period blood to pull out the next victory….

    true story

    I dare anyone to top that

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  26. on January 11, 2008 at 2:51 am observer

    Can someone please explain to me how a woman gets the right to be commander in chief of the Armed Forces when she does not have to have the responsibility to register for the draft?

    My feeling is that because women don’t need to register — and thus never died in numbers like in Vietnam and WWII — they have never earned the right to run this country.

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  27. on January 11, 2008 at 2:51 am virgle Kent

    I O picks him to run with for vice then they can play this as their new campaign song

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    O IN 08

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  28. on January 11, 2008 at 2:52 am virgle Kent

    *I hope O*

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  29. on January 11, 2008 at 4:37 am rinaface

    politics are so boring

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  30. on January 11, 2008 at 5:26 am neu anonym

    31, Observer: Women aren’t allowed to join the army because then there would be no way to stop the soldiers from fucking and if they’re fucking they won’t want to kill as much. True story!

    30, Virgle; She probably will cry period blood if that’s what it takes. The only way those tears are anywhere near “real” is if she actually believes her own bullshit.

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  31. on January 11, 2008 at 6:44 am alias clio

    #35 – what do you mean, women aren’t allowed to join the army? They are, and they do. They can even take combat positions nowadays, in the American army, if my understanding is correct. The point was that they have never been drafted. But since the draft hasn’t existed for some years in the US, even for men, the issue seems irrelevant to today’s politics.

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  32. on January 11, 2008 at 9:46 am Joe T.

    The Hillary plants who held up the “Iron My Shirt” signs also helped turn out women for Hillary. And yes, I know they were linked to a shock-jock radio show in Boston. Doesn’t mean they weren’t also involved with Hillary’s campaign, though.

    One of them was seen talking to a Hillary staffer before the Salem, NH event, and Hillary herself said “It’s awfully dark in here… Turn up the lights” so the signs could be caught on camera.

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  33. on January 11, 2008 at 10:38 am lunarpower

    #22 Do you think there’s something wrong with crying in private? I think it’s one of reasons women go mad less than men; because temporarily they go mad everyday.

    far less important than the fact that women going mad generally have sympathy and support at every turn, not only from women (guaranteed) but also from men (unless they’re physically repulsive) and the press (if they’re famous enough).

    men going mad go mad alone.

    #23 Angry Men Get Ahead While Angry Women Penalized

    a notion especially germane here, even if it doesn’t explain the discrepancy entirely, is the obvious and systematic, yet often overlooked, difference between typical male anger and typical female anger.

    as in relationships, male anger is more likely to be topic- or task-oriented, to remain so, and to fizzle out rapidly, while female anger is more likely to involve long litanies of past peccadilloes that are not in the least relevant to the situation at hand and to simmer for inordinate periods of time. while this difference just creates the usual mars/venus bullshit in the context of personal relationships, with no clear winners or losers, it’s not difficult to see how it could produce qualitative differences in the workplace.

    there’s a reason that words like ‘harpy’ don’t have close male equivalents.

    #26 A woman president can only be so masculine, though I agree she must have a much greater degree of masculinity at work than at home. But a few tears does NOT necessarily denote weakness.

    heads of state should be held to consistent standards, one of which stipulates that crying should be done in private.

    imagine what even 0.001 of a tear would have done to margaret thatcher’s reputation.

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  34. on January 11, 2008 at 4:12 pm neu anonym

    36 Alias: More accurately no country has allowed it’s army people to have free sexuality, because if soldiers are allowed to have freedom of their sexuality, then they lose destructiveness and anger. They’re deprived of wives and girlfriends. Granted they’re often logistically far away, but they’re certainly not allowed conjugal visits, are they? But they ARE allowed to see all kinds of pornographic films and magazines, and the actresses of choice who visit the-by far male–armies are the sexiest sirens. So they’re encouraged to be sexually aroused and that aroused energy turns into anger–and rage if that’s what’s required to get the job. How else can you get men to do such an insane thing? Brainwashing only goes so far.

    38, lunarpower:

    “there’s a reason that words like ‘harpy’ don’t have close male equivalents.” (Tongue sticks out. 🙂

    O.K. But I still think your basic attitude it Robopathic, and your judgement about male anger being more logical, therefore more sane or valid is basically inaccurate. Men and women are equal but opposites. If we weren’t equal the attraction would not be what it is. Just because you don’t understand female anger logically does not render it inferior. If love logical? Does it have power?

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  35. on January 11, 2008 at 4:39 pm Miik

    26 john smith

    “If this was the evening of 9/11, I turn my TV on and I want to feel PROTECTED by my president. I don’t want to hear any bs about things being tough. I want a strong president.”

    You just lump reality into bs and then believe their lies and call it strength.

    On Sept 11 we weren’t “protected”

    We were “attacked”

    We were royally fucked over by the biggest assholes to ever steal an election, and now you are their bitch.

    Unless I’m missing something, They did nothing to stop the Sept11 attacks. They had record numbers of warnings before the attacks and they chose to IGNORE them.

    But it’s their game plan – MAKE EVERYTHING WORSE

    (theyuse the FED to keep people misdirected with little equity bumps while they borrow us into oblivion)

    They will fuck everything up so badly that they can target their holy grail – Social Security. Stop being their bitch and start waking up. Wouldn’t you rather protect your parents Social Security as a loving son than be their bitch? Why let it all go to hell and lose it all in the chaos because you believe their lies?

    So even if you’ll willingly give up your 15% share of every taxed dollar you ever worked for. Don’t let them get your parents, siblings money. Be brave.

    Bush is strong in one way – He has no fear of consequences.

    totally reptilian

    His internal alpha male buttons have been pushed for eternity. In the internal payoff department, he knows he is soooo far past his actual talents. He has achieved the pinnacle of jobs PRESUSA. His social payoff has soooo overloaded his addled ex-alcoholic and drug user brain remnants that he would go to his grave happy now in the true AND deluded belief that he was something special.

    His rich ex-CIA director, ex-president father, and father’s wealthy contributor inner circle handed him the stolen election seven years ago (and a free share of a major league baseball team before that)

    It is almost beautiful in it’s right in front of your face what are you going to do about it we’ll do anything we want pure evil. Could you maybe grow a pair of balls to handle the information instead of believing fairy tales about how “Bush was strong?”

    Feel this – Bush is an ex-drunk who is the master misdirector – and maybe you might acheive ex-drunk.
    After the economy tanks and you end up with no job – and you use up your earnings caring for your aging parents when they lost their Social Security to them, and their retirement funds long ago wentto Enron – Bush’s biggest contributor.

    feel “protected” now?

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  36. on January 11, 2008 at 5:18 pm alias clio

    neu anonym: I don’t want to be rude, but you sound progressively wackier as you continue to post here. Or are you just exceptionally unworldly?

    Depending on circumstances, soldiers and sailors are certainly allowed conjugal visits. In pre-modern times, women (wives, prostitutes, mistresses and so forth) followed armies around wherever they went, and might even be present in the thick of battle.

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  37. on January 11, 2008 at 5:38 pm John Smith


    We were royally fucked over by the biggest assholes to ever steal an election, and now you are their bitch.

    Look, if you’re attacking me because I’m some Bush supporter, I opposed the Iraq war from the beginning and was always against his administration.

    All I’m saying, is that we need someone to be strong and reassuring if there is a tragedy/disaster. And considering that Bush was busy reading books to children and then disappeared for a few hours, he doesn’t even perfectly fit the bill.

    Hillary Clinton’s consultant built robot personality just won’t cut it either.

    We have 2 possibilities:

    -Either the tears were faked and she is a total sleaze for faking tears to get votes, and the voters were retarded to vote for her just for that.

    -Or, she actually cried and couldn’t handle the stress of the campaign trail. Let’s say she gets elected, and she’s doing a post attack press conference and the reporter asks her a question on whether it’s been hard on her or not, and she cries, or even shows serious weakness like she did a few days ago. Will that be assuring to the nation? I don’t think so.

    Look, just because I want a President who projects strength (low standards: Kerry, Obama, and most of the Republicans can do it, it’s not hard. It’s just that Hillary CAN’T because she’s a robot)
    does NOT mean I endorse a policy of war and curbing civil liberties. You have successfully altered the debate topic to favor your robotic candidate. Good job.

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  38. on January 11, 2008 at 6:30 pm neu anonym

    41, alias clio: None taken.

    This is from the “Army Wife Radio” blog site dated 2/27/07.

    “Hmmm….I guess all this talk about procreating hedgehogs reminded me of another conversation I had with my husband. Try to follow my logic here….. Wouldn’t it be a good idea to give deployed soldiers conjugal visits. It could be in neutral territory like Switzerland or maybe Jordan would be hospitable enough…… I wouldn’t mind flying over there every few months (or every month). Just a thought.”

    This is from Aug. 2007:

    “Re: Love and war: Should a married couple be allowed to sleep together in a war zone?
    Where my hubby is deployed to, the base commander specifically said no sex what so ever. no being in the rooms of the opposit sex.
    Now please explain to me WHY the base provides free condoms if that is the case?

    I think it is rediculous. If you are married you have the absolute right to sleep together. I mean please, crinimals in prison get to have conjugal visits! In my opinion our military deserves it more than they do!

    And if you are both on different rotations, that means you never get to see your spouse. Then if you by chance do cross each other, you cant do anything. You cant even show each other affection on your off duty time.”

    Where did you get your information that conjugal visits are allowed?

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  39. on January 11, 2008 at 8:29 pm Teej

    Of course I love reading Camille. But since she prefers the vaginas to the penis, the sub/dom thing is merely theoretical..

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  40. on January 11, 2008 at 9:44 pm neu anonym

    Hillary wants women fighting in combat? Hillary “cowcunt” Clinton has less femininity than most men. The crocodile tears have nothing to do with whether she’d do a good job or not. Women who are that masculine (and not in a good way) are a perversion of nature.

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  41. on January 11, 2008 at 10:13 pm lunarpower

    #39 O.K. But I still think your basic attitude it Robopathic, and your judgement about male anger being more logical, therefore more sane or valid is basically inaccurate.

    you missed the main point, which is that the indisputably more focused nature of typical male anger is better suited to the workplace than the essentially scattershot nature of typical female anger.

    go back and read the post again, and you’ll notice i already declared that neither side comes out ahead when the context is personal.

    #47 Women who are that masculine (and not in a good way) are a perversion of nature.

    do you think that such ‘perversion’ renders them unqualified for positions of political leadership?

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  42. on January 11, 2008 at 10:44 pm neu anonym

    48: In retrospect I can understand your viewpoint better and think we’re both guilty of over generalizations regarding male vs female anger. Personally, I am generally much more focused and direct in the expression of anger AND I get over it quickly-excluding prior issues with PMS. My first husband was highly aggressive, second one very passive, and my 3rd love was passive-aggressive and by far the worst to deal with. Mature assertive expression of anger seems to be quite a rarity, but if I had to choose between the other types.. would definitely choose direct expression.

    The “perversion” certainly renders Hillary unfit, even dangerous, but being of a non political persuasion in general I have a hard time imagining a fit politician.

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  43. on January 11, 2008 at 11:00 pm neu anonym

    Some words about “women’s liberation”:

    “The women’s liberation movement is going to do some very deep harm to the women’s cause in the world, and this will be the harm: they will become carbon copies of men, they will have a secondary kind of existence. They will not be real men because they cannot be naturally so aggressive. They can pretend, they can cultivate aggression, they can be rough, but that will be just a facade: deep down they will remain soft. And that will create a split in their being, that will create a schizophrenia in their being. They will suffer from a dual personality and they will lose their mysteriousness. They will argue with men with the same logic, and they will be like men and they will be ugly. To be unnatural is to be ugly, to be natural is to be beautiful.”

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  44. on January 12, 2008 at 12:23 am alias clio

    neu anonym: first, if you look at the piece you cited, it says that the base commander “specifically ordered” that no conjugal visits be allowed. This suggests that such matters may be at the discretion of the base commander.

    Here’s another bit from the same source as the blurb you cited: 2. I would point out to the group that “General Order #1” prohibits alcohol and sex in a combat zone — with an express exception for lawfully married couples. Thus, it is a non-issue from a legal standpoint. The CENTCOM commander has specifically authorized married couples to live together in theater. Indeed, local commanders are supposed to do their best to accommodate married couples with joint private housing wherever possible

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  45. on January 12, 2008 at 12:27 am alias clio

    Of course, that only covers married couples who are both serving soldiers. But I believe – from what I’ve heard from soldiers I know – that conjugal visits are permitted if the conditions in the zone where the soldiers are deployed are suitable, if there are adequate quarters for them and so forth. And then, too, most soldiers except in really extraordinary situations are occasionally given leave, at which time they are free to receive conjugal visits if they like. Of course, some families may not be able to afford to pay for such visits themselves.

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  46. on January 12, 2008 at 1:24 am neu anonym

    53, alia clio: I emailed the U.S. military site to see if I could get their official policy on this. When I did a search on “conjugal” it came up nowhere on their site. I got my original information from a source I highly trust for accuracy, though it could be somewhat outdated.

    Here’s an interesting link “The Sex Lives and Sexual Frustrations of US troops in Iraq: An Ocean of Ignorance”

    http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9443

    http://www.amazon.com/Women-Weapons-War-Iraq-Media/dp/0231141904

    Sex and murder in Iraq:

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_2005_Feb_1/ai_n9487777

    “Last year there were 2,374 reported cases of sexual assault against women in uniform.”

    I think this is a big issue and some are trying to shed more light on it. We could sit here all day of course-and who has time-but the correlation between prohibiting sex, making it difficult, having men separated from women for long periods of time, a lot of pornography, etc. and promoting aggression seems apparent to me.

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  47. on January 12, 2008 at 1:31 am neu anonym

    alias clio: As you cited “General Order #1″ PROHIBITS alcohol and SEX in a COMBAT ZONE— with an express EXCEPTION for lawfully married couples.”

    Prohibits sex in a combat zone? Why? The percentage of married couples in the same branch of military deployed at the same location must be minute. Is this a case where the exception(s) prove the rule?

    “conjugal visits are permitted if the conditions in the zone where the soldiers are deployed are suitable, if there are adequate quarters for them and so forth.”

    What constitutes suitable conditions?

    We could go on forever!! Don’t want to win necessarily, just want a chance to voice my opinion.

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  48. on January 12, 2008 at 3:13 am alias clio

    Stars above, na, you can’t possibly be arguing that soldiers never get to have sex!

    I thought your point was that the army didn’t allow “legitimate” couples to have conjugal visits, forcing soldiers to turn to prostitutes and pornography.

    “Suitable conditions” are when there are quarters available and when there is no physical danger to the spouse, I would imagine. Surely you can’t think that combat conditions are suitable for sexual encounters? Anyway, as I said, soldiers are allowed leave and when on leave they can and do rendezvous with whomever they want – wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, “professionals”.

    No one is denying you a chance to voice your opinion…this is a very odd comment for you to make.

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  49. on January 12, 2008 at 4:29 am Hope

    she is a flesh and blood misandrist.

    That’s just what I mean. Her policies bother me less than the fact that she is two-faced, unscrupulous, scheming, conniving, backstabbing, grossly ambitious, dirtily manipulative, and extremely corrupt in her politicking. She is first and foremost interested in power. I don’t think she hates men so much as she will use anyone, men and women alike, to achieve her goals.

    Her policies are merely her methods employed to sway the “base.” If popular sentiments in the Democratic party changed winds, she would change her tune just as fast. It is not too unlike Giuliani backtracking on his pro-choice record as a Democrat to trying to woo the Christian right voters into believing he could be pro-life. It reeks of opportunism, and Hillary has all too much in common with Giuliani.

    It’s worse for me psychologically, because she makes me almost ashamed to be a woman. When she speaks it is cringe-worthy. I think she honestly believes that she is better than the other candidates. That kind of arrogance is despicable, especially in someone who is so underwhelming in almost all other aspects.

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  50. on January 12, 2008 at 8:21 am neu anonym

    57, clio: I make a lot of odd comments, and don’t expect to be understood. If I am; great. If people here think I’m an idiot, so be it. My mother used to say “Just because you don’t understand doesn’t mean I’m confused.” At a certain point it’s not worth arguing about anymore. To each his own, live and let live and all that good stuff.

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  51. on January 12, 2008 at 6:40 pm dizzy8

    Maybe women flock to her because they don’t like the way guys like you talk about women. You called her a “raging ID of mysandry.” You obviously hate her. But I don’t see what she did to you. What did she do, exactly, that makes you think she hates men?

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  52. on January 12, 2008 at 10:09 pm Joe T.

    Dizzy8N what did she do? Ask Camille Paglia, the feminist writer (Paglia is a pro-male feminist).

    For one, Hillary rails against glass ceilings and double standardsan but she exploits the hell out of them. If a male presidential candidate shed tears, he’d be drummed out of the campaign. Yet Hillary made an obviously decision to use that very tactic as a Hail Mary gambit to snatch votes on the eve of a primary. Her handlers were obviously telling her to inject some human emotions into her answers, and she played it to the hilt.

    For a campaign supposedly based on feminism, this is hypocrisy at its most odious.

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  53. on January 12, 2008 at 10:13 pm Joe T.

    Sorry for typos, using blackberry today!

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  54. on January 12, 2008 at 10:13 pm cjm

    all of hillary’s enemies are in the u.s.

    she would cause us to be attacked even more so than when her limp husband was abusing the office

    she would make nixon look sane in comparison (and carter competent)

    the spectacle would be incredible, but i wouldn’t want seats that were too close

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  55. on January 13, 2008 at 6:21 am Hope

    Speaking of polls and Hillary, check this out.

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  56. on January 14, 2008 at 12:31 pm Joe T.

    Thanks, interesting poll, Hope.

    I should mention that I guess what has troubled me about Hillary’s quest for the presidency, from its start when she was elected to the Senate in 2000, is that what public support she does have, particularly among Democratic party faithful, seems to have arisen almost 100% out of the guilty feelings of many Democrats who supported Bill during the Lewinsky scandal and impeachment.

    The frame of mind is that Hillary was put through hell by her philandering husband, and in a sense, she is a stand-in for “all women” who’ve been cheated on by men.

    This line of thinking holds Hillary up as a kind of feminist icon and appeals to our sense of justice — i.e., that Hillary, as a woman, submerged her own career and supported her husband all those years to advance his political career, all the while suffering the slings and arrows of his unfaithfulness.

    This feminist narrative then strongly implies that, in order to write this wrong that was done to Hillary, and, by extension, to right all the wrongs done by American men to their women, we should support Hillary in her bid for the presidency, and thereby propitiate and eradicate all that injustice and the collective misogyny.

    Nice narrative, only I ain’t buying it. First, it asks us to overlook all of Hillary’s personal faults and failings, not to mention her political ones (e.g., failure to pass health care reform in 1993 when the Democrats held both houses of Congress), and vote just to make some kind of grandiose statement, to rectify supposed gross injustices against women.

    They’d have us believe the personal is the political, and vice-versa, and vote that way.

    That is precisely what so disgusts me about the way Hillary is running her campaign, and about Hillary’s entire political career arc. It’s based on a fundamentally flawed hypothesis of imputing guilt for all the wrongs done against women by SOME men, on ALL men, and then would have us make perhaps one of the most important decisions of our lives based on the silly soap opera of one family, just to assuage the goddesses of feminism.

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