Some of my commenters mentioned that it should be easier for older guys to date younger girls because of the inherent attraction women have for worldly, mature men. This assumption is true in the abstract, but needs to be amended.
Maxim #7: The greater the age difference between the older man and the younger woman, the tighter his game will need to be, barring compensatory attributes.
This is why a 25 year old guy can get away with a little more beta behavior when gaming 22 year old girls than a 35 year old man gaming the same girls. There is a smaller margin of error when the age difference approaches ten years plus, and the women are under 25. The upshot is that an older man with good game is EXTREMELY attractive to all women because the experience is so rare.
Maxim #7 applies to about 60% of women under 25. I have found that 40% of under 25 women have no problem dating much older guys, and many even actively seek out the dashing older gentleman. What this means in the field is that if you are over 30 and hitting on 22 year olds, you will be rebuffed slightly more frequently before you even open your mouth than if you were closer in age to your targets. Don’t worry about it. Chances are good that for every girl who sneers “How old are you??” the very next one will welcome your advances. Only when you notice all your approaches beginning with your target’s incredulity should you consider raising the lower bound age limit of the women you hit on. But trust me, that point comes much later than most guys realize.
Another commenter wondered if joking about the age difference would help deflate its impact. Be careful with this course of action; it can easily backfire. If you do make light of it, don’t go overboard. Too much evasive joking betrays a faint whiff of insecurity, especially if you are the one to broach the age subject first. One offhand joke is enough. For instance, when asked my age, I sometimes say “My chronological age or my emotional age? Cause, you know, emotionally I’m 14. Wanna go to the arcade?”
The same applies when being asked about your job. One “joke job” is enough. If you reel off a litany of joke jobs, she will suspect you really are an unemployed loser with something to hide.
Nowadays I skip the joking entirely and don’t mention age at all unless my date shows signs of unease with the age difference. In these cases I handle any age objections like this:
Her: “So I have to ask… how old are you?”
Me: “Guess.”
Her: “29.”
Me: “Pretty good. [notice I didn’t actually confirm her guess] How old are you?”
Her: “23.”
Me: “Wow, my ex was 23… no wait, it was her birthday last week, she just turned 24. Normally I like to date older women because they are classy and sophisticated, but maybe you are different.”
I have done two things here: One, I’ve showed her that I am no stranger to dating younger women. They like to know you are loved by other women similar to themselves in age and beauty. (This is why dating a fat chick is actually worse for your product marketability than being single.) Two, I have put her on the defensive so that she is now working hard to get my approval. Most women are secretly hoping that you will challenge them like this. They WANT to be the approval-seekers.
Once you’ve mastered the most important part of picking up younger women — your attitude — you can improve those secondary characteristics that will help round out your game. Here are some:
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Stay in shape.
It’s not hard. Don’t overeat and hit the gym regularly. The real gym with iron, not the froo froo one with elliptical machines and treadmills. Women are forgiving of general aging in a man, but they are less lenient when that man has a round gut and bitch tits.
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Baldness.
If you are balding, shave it to the scalp skin. There is nothing worse than the monk’s ring. If I were balding, I would shave it all off and get a spitting cobra tattoo wrapped around my skull. Job promotions would soon follow.
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Fashion.
Dress younger and trendier than the average guy in your age bracket, but not so trendy that you look ridiculous. For instance, if you are 30, upgrade from designer hoodies to designer blazers. Chuck the Chucks for Steve Maddens and Pradas. $50 t-shirts are still OK if you have an excellent V-shaped torso to show off, but most men will want to move on to snappy spread-collared shirts after 30.
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Tattoos.
This is a little trickier as you run the risk of looking like a prole, but tattoos add an aura of toughness that works well to compensate for the perception of blandness as you age into the next demographic.
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Become artistic.
Drop the typcial American male hobbies like drinking and football and take up photography and guitar. Expressing yourself artistically is so attractive to so many younger women that it virtually negates any doubts about your age.

“The same applies when being asked about your job. One “joke job” is enough. If you reel off a litany of joke jobs, she will suspect you really are an unemployed loser with something to hide.”
You may not be unemployed but you sure have a lot that you at least WANT to hide, apparently. Here’s a little wake up call for you. I’ve had more than a few of my own. They are very, very painful, especially when we are very very much asleep–and who isn’t?
There is nothing in all the universe that you can hide. You may think you’re hiding something, but your results will prove otherwise.
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i love this blog.
i have nothing else to say.
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Women are forgiving of general aging in a man, but they are less lenient when that man has a round gut and bitch tits.
Wrong term. You presumably mean “fat man boobs.” Bitch tits are something else entirely. They are comprised not of fat, but of glandular tissue similar to that found in a woman’s hooters. They can result from careless steroid use but more often are genetic, and can occur in men who are not overweight at all.
Losing body fat will cure fat man boobs. Bitch tits can be removed only by surgery.
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The way to do tattoos right ties in to the “are you sophisticated enough to date me?” line. She’ll expect, or is used to, something dopey like barbed wire, tribal designs, etc. It may take awhile to figure out, but get something with a badass look that still reflects being well-read or cultured.
I don’t want to give away what my own are, but off the top of my head, get a portrait of Beethoven or whoever your favorite composer is. (Beethoven looks more like a bad dude, though.) This may not be right, but something to play around with.
I made sure to get both of mine on my inner forearms. I wear long-sleeve shirts or a jacket / blazer over a short-sleeve shirt if it’s blazing hot, so they’re not very exhibitionistic. Then it’s more of a surprise, and you get to roll up your sleeves to show them — assuming you work out your arms at all, this is like a girl removing her knee-high socks or something.
Plus they invite girls to fondle your arms. I didn’t expect that, but it’s a pleasant side benefit.
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More useful info! Thank you.
What about the other way around? What if I want to attract some hot, old “cougar”? Do I mere inverse these past two blog posts equations?
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If you can do the last one on the list, you can chuck the rest of it out of the window. Me, I’m pushing 30, got no real job, no money, no clothes that didn’t come second-hand and no car. Hey, but having no car and no money means I don’t get fat from driving around eating Big Macs all day long. Second hand clothes means I get to craft unique looks on the cheap. Most importantly, because I actually give a shit about my writing and photography and prefer playing guitar over playing videogames, I don’t ever have to be needy or think about women at all.
I don’t call for weeks on end because I actually have been working on a story or trying to master a new song. When I call them again, I got something to sweep them off their feet. I don’t need to manufacture negs at bars, because I treat shallow dipshit women with honest contempt, even if they are 10s.
I really don’t know how long I’ll be able to pull this shit off, but hey, when it stops, it stops. I probably have less sex than I should because, really, I just don’t give a crap about sex or relationships in general. It’s just what happens in between doing the more fufilling things. It’s like having a friend who buys you free beer everytime you go out. Sure it’s pretty sweet, but sometimes you don’t want beer, and if he moves away, well that’s just life. Then most of this alpha beta shit is more entertainment material for me anyways.
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For the purpose of this discussion, I think we could easily adopt Tom Brady’s rules from Saturday Night Live:
1. Be handsome
2. Be attractive
3. Don’t be unattractive
My man followed those simple steps and landed me when I was 26 and he was 37.
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*look*
Not luk, got me all fucked up with all the chuck talk
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i like the idea of a badass but culturally sophisticated tattoo.
perfection:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bright_Logo.svg
it shows that you can actually think for yourself, and it fits nicely over the shoulder.
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I’d have to see what it looks like, but it sounds OK… it just needs something else. Maybe a portrait or quote from his country’s national poet, national composer, etc. Just having the flag — it’s like a Brazilian guy who wears a Brazil track jacket. Girls dig the exotic factor in it, but there should be something more to it than “I’m a random hot guy from X.”
That’s another benefit of wearing suits and sportcoats — to roll up my sleeve the other night, I obviously had to take off my suit jacket first. I was with two girls who’d seen me around a lot, and since me without one is pretty unusual, one said to her friend excitedly, “Oh my god, he’s taking it off!” and reflexively started rubbing the area right below her collarbone.
And she was a somewhat bratty 18 y.o. who usually has guys falling over themselves to buy her things. Those girls really get a kick out of meeting a guy who isn’t a pushover.
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Even I am surprised by the effectiveness of inner forearm tatts at generating interest but as stated, they must be sophisticated and meaningful. A couple of thoughts on that. First, you gotta have the strong forearms to pull it off. Second, juxtaposition. Well dressed but accentuated by the forearm tatts sets you apart.
Whenever my sleeves are rolled up without fail and in a matter of seconds girls ask me one of the following about my tatts, “oooh, what is that?!”, “oooh, what does it say?!”, or “oooh, what does it mean?!” followed closely by touching.
Magic. *wink*
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“Me:
“Wow, my ex was 23… no wait, it was her birthday last week, she just turned 24. ”
Of course, you would only say this if it were true; correct? Otherwise you are in fact lying and lying in general leads to guaranteed drama, even if you don’t get caught. This goes back to not being able to hide your shit. You know, your insecurities and shit like that. Women can be extremely perceptive. Why go there? If you start lying as a pickup technique, in the long run, you’re dead meat.
“wo, I have put her on the defensive so that she is now working hard to get my approval. Most women are secretly hoping that you will challenge them like this. They WANT to be the approval-seekers.”
They want to be approval seekers because their DNA tells them their survival depends on pleasing men. Even though it probably does not. So when you put them in this state (which is very easy btw and you don’t need a course to learn it) you are tapping into her reptilian brain and will then be enjoying reptilian sex. It appears that’s really all you’re up for, so go for it. 🙂
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#16 T:
I know what you mean, but the guy in the example you cited appears to be doing all right for himself there.
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Or just have a shitload of money. That negates any of the secondary characteristics.
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I’m chatting with this chick who I think is 22. I’m 30 and she hasn’t asked me how old I am. We’re gonna go out soon. So I guess I never talk about it unless she asks right? Not that I’m trying to hide it – I doubt it would matter.
Younger girls might be harder to pick up than older women – but there are also so many more young single attractive girls than older ones, so there are many more options.
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There’s an almost palpable sense of desperation here. Hmmmm. Wannabe alphas much, guys? See my comments on the original ‘Scoring Young Women’ post. You may be surprised to hear how a REAL alpha operates.
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$50 for a t-shirt is never ok. that’s sort of like chicks paying $4000 for a purse.
if you’re in shape, you’d be surprised how much mileage you can get out of a hanes white cotton tagless v-neck (under $10 for 5 of them at target) worn under a decent blazer. and then when she wants to rip it off your pure irresistiblivity, you won’t shriek like a banshee as your net worth goes down by a whole percentage point like you would with the $50 shirt.
—
re: tattoos & joke jobs
do not go uninked into that good night /
tattoos should burn and rave at close of day /
rage, rage against the dying of the light!
self-adorn with dilettante passions they might /
which from the mind will fade but upon the body stay /
rage, rage against the dying of the light!
and as long as i’m playing dylan thomas lite /
who the hell would give his real job away /
if he only wants to hit it for a night?
—
joke jobs are pretty cool. i know a guy who makes six figures a year tutoring kids for standardized tests, like what that paul janka dude does, and he makes up ridiculous shit left and right.
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I like this blog. Fifteen years ago I would’ve hated it, because I was a beta, and barely that. Five years ago my long-term (9 years) relationship ended, by her, but somehow along my “fuck this shit, I’m going to the clubs and get wasted”-approach to the breakup I saw myself going straight to alpha. Or almost at least.
I still make an occasinal beta mistake; recently I almost succeeded at securing a 19-year old (16 years younger) but then I got too drunk and were a little too happy with the situation. Whoosh! Well, a lesson learned, ready to be applied at future occasions.
spb (found my way here by The Fourth Checkraise)
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This is fun. Hope for ugly men?
http://www.thebikersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4702
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the insecurity/commenting on other women thing MAY work now, and will probably always work on 18 year olds. However, since game advice has recently become a popular topic, most girls my age know guys do this and find it to be cheap and a complete turn-off. that said, even when I didn’t know that guys did that to girls, I may have kept on talking to the guy, but I never dated or had sex with them. instead I just didn’t call those guys ever again and laughed with my friends as they left numerous voice mail messages. so maybe young girls flake because older guys try extra hard to “game” them and this doesn’t work. the truth is younger girls’ achilles heel is flattery; we still believe all the you’re so beautiful stuff… try that while it still works. this works especially well for older men, because when you say that you are the most X girl I ever met, we know you have met a lot of them. also, if the girl is attractive and you think she gets that all the time, there are always other qualities to comment on and attractive girls especially like it when guys comment on features other than their looks as if they care about those too.
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27
“most girls my age know guys do this and find it to be cheap and a complete turn-off.”
Older women too. It’s what I’ve been trying to tell these guys. They don’t seem to listen.
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I agree with j. In Britain St George tattoos and all that are the province of the skanger. I question agnostics decision to get a tatoo in such a conspicious area.
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Drop the typcial American male hobbies like drinking and football and take up photography and guitar. Expressing yourself artistically is so attractive to so many younger women that it virtually negates any doubts about your age.
Being a football fan will increase a man’s circle of male friends, and that may increase the number of women he may meet.
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Phony begets phony. Phony begets drama. Lies are phony, posturing is phony, pretending to be other than what you are is phony, hiding your true intent is phony. But then there’s just plain confusion and pretty much the same applies. Your results will be confusing and mixed. That’s why true confidence is such a turn on. True confidence is purposeful, trustworthy, dependable. At least more so, though nothing is 100% of course. You cannot fake confidence and expect great results. Won’t happen in this or any other dimension. Why not consider real growth, or is that not ‘exciting’ enough? There’s no getting over, dominating others, fooling others and yourself, and a lot less drama.
On the upside: real evolution, happiness, true success, and a fulfilling life.
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Um… Anne Onymous – no one’s telling you to lower your standards. but as you should know by now, women are judged on their looks whereas men are judged on their accomplishments and personality. YOUR shallowness and superficiality is a big turnoff, and the fact is, there are many younger girls who don’t have that attitude, so you might want to start looking for the important things.
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Shallowness is an unbecoming trait when exaggerated in either sex. I wish only to disabuse men of the notion that they can hook themselves any hot young thing they desire by sole virtue of wealth or humor. Sure, women want to be appreciated for their looks, as do men; we also want to be appreciated for the other qualities men pride in themselves: intelligence, a winning personality, life accomplishments, etc. While we may be more forgiving of physical flaws in men than men are forgiving of the same in us, the fact is we want to be with someone attractive as much as you do. All the riches and perfectly timed punchlines in the world will not guarantee success with a twenty-year-old to the balding man of forty lugging around a spare tire. An attractive woman at peak dating market value (status whores excluded) is unlikely to forgo relationships with attractive men her own age to hang out with guys old enough to have sired her, no matter how terribly impressed she is by their tricked-out hummers and gold-plated dentures.
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The primary appeal of older men to younger women in times past was financial security. Now that women are out there in the work force paying their own way, fewer are going to be in the market for a sugardaddy.
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Commet #36
>>fewer are going to be in the market for a sugardaddy.
I seriously doubt that will ever be the case.
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I seriously doubt that will ever be the case.
Tell that to the emerging class of sugar girls, supporting deadbeat Hispanics or blacks. Not in noticeable numbers, but growing.
Sex is an economic game. The payoffs have changed.
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Johnny five: $50 for a t-shirt is never ok. that’s sort of like chicks paying $4000 for a purse.
Women who want four-figure purses want the purses because they identify with them: both are just empty holes with lots of decoration.
Anne onymous: Now that women are out there in the work force paying their own way, fewer are going to be in the market for a sugardaddy.
Haha, yeah, right. I think what you meant was “fewer will be able to get a sugardaddy, because they won’t decide they’re sick of working until they’re past their beauty prime.” It’s exactly the opposite: Career chicks still want to marry up.
If you can find some articles out there bemoaning the fact that supply of sugardaddies is beginning to exceed demand, get back to me.
John smith: Tell that to the emerging class of sugar girls, supporting deadbeat Hispanics or blacks.
Those guys should start pushing for marriage. Once they jet, and the women are left holding the bag and paying support to maintain “the standard of living attained during the marriage,” you can bet that all the BS support laws will change really fast. Then, ironically, decent men might actually have decent reasons to consider marriage again.
Anne onymous: An attractive woman at peak dating market value (status whores excluded)
I love clauses that exclude the majority of the class under consideration. You’re a counsel for an insurance company, aren’t you.
21 year old girl: since game advice has recently become a popular topic, most girls my age know guys do this and find it to be cheap and a complete turn-off.
Dream on. If you can at all distinguish “game” from “magnetic personality,” then the gamer is incompetent. Otherwise, you’re just projecting “magnetic personality” onto guys you’ve already decided are attractive, and “lame game” onto guys you’ve already decided aren’t worth your time.
Would Wolfgang Puck’s food taste worse if it turned out he’d been following recipes? Of course it wouldn’t.
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#39 keskisormi: Women who want four-figure purses want the purses because they identify with them: both are just empty holes with lots of decoration.
wow.
vk would give half his empire of dirt to have written those words.
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Ummm….what?! There have been chicks supporting white deadbeats for ages too. I’ve heard of tons of white trash chicks and their chronically unemployed alcoholic white boyfriends and husbands for generations. I’m pretty sure the deadbeat man isn’t a unique or new black or hispanic phenomenon.
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Oh yes, also the working white woman and her white “artist” or “actor” boyfriend that is basically a sporadically employed waiter or coffee barista that pays way less than his share of the bills. I know plenty of couples like that in NY. I’m hardly the PC type, but I really didn’t see a need for the black/hispanic angle there.
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Anne Onymous – you make all these arguments against younger women – older men relationships, while you are IN one yourself? I don’t get it. It’s not just financial security that women like older guys. It’s experience and maturity. Guys their age are idiots and they look elsewhere.
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Anne – first of all, I don’t have a deep bank account, so I am not looking for a golddigger anyway. I’m going to guess I am not that much older than you, but I do find girls in their early 20’s (some) liking guys in their early 30’s or so. Now in general – yes, couples are pretty close in age, with the man usually being a bit older. But who you like is who you like. My parents had a 15 year difference, and it worked out well. Just cause you are with an older guy now doesn’t mean that’s all you have to like, but it depends on the person and in this case, that’s who you wanted. You seem to be a little cold by breaking it down only in money or looks terms, when it depends on the individual person.
Basically, what you are saying is a 45 year old guy with not much going for him in the dating market won’t have much success with a hot 22 year old. I guess that is hard to argue. Perhaps we can continue this through email?
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Hey Guys,
I’m 42 next month, and last weekend end up with a beautiful 19 year old that I pick up on Starbucks, because she ask me about my jeans. Shit I spend 300 on those suckers, but they work.
Jesus B
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Jerry Ertans – tru dat.
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