This past weekend at a loungey club I attempted a number close at the end of the night when the staff was flipping the lights on and off to signal closing time. Acting quickly before a gang of dangerous hipsters in white Hanes t-shirts and superbly chiseled body fat hustled me out I moved to wrap up the conversation I was having with a slightly above-average girl. It went like this:
Me: We should hang some time. Let me get your number. Here, type it in.
Her: Sure, sounds great! [types her # in my phone and hands it back to me]
Me: [looking at the number with no name attached] So… how do you spell your name?
Her: How do I spell it? It’s a simple name, there’s only one way to spell it!
Me: Yeah, but you may spell it the hippie way, with extra vowels or something. Maybe your parents were hippies.
Her: You forgot my name, didn’t you?
Me: Well, hey, I bet you forgot my name too, so we’re even.
Her: No, your name is [my name].
Me: Hm, wow, that’s pretty good. But actually I think I told you my name was [minor variation on my name].
Slightly above-average girl walks off without giving me her name. Mission unaccomplished.
******
This is a prime example of what can go wrong during a pickup when the girl you are talking to is not hot enough to keep you mentally focused on the task at hand. You get sloppy and let your mind jump ahead to thoughts of mashing her tits together. Had she been better looking I would not have forgotten her name. But even if I had, I would’ve answered stronger and saved the number close:
Her: Sure, sounds great! [types her # in my phone and hands it back to me]
Me: I have a confession to make. Our conversation was so intense and I got so into the things you were telling me about your life that I forgot your name.
Her: Ravage me!
If you are constantly forgetting girls’ names, you are probably aiming too low.
Face it roissy; she was so above you! She kicked you to the curb. GOOD FOR HER. Face it, roissy, was it really any loss to her to NOT have sex with you? Hell no!! Good grief, she spared herself some unnecessary grief and a wasted night having meaningless mediocre sex with a LOSER pump and dumper. If I could speak to her, I would say “YOU ROCK, GIRL!”.
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I smell desperation. 😀
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She was too smart for you.
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usually it’s the other way around. if we want to make an ‘impression’ upon somebody, whether it be a job interviewer or beautiful girl, we tend to focus our brains more on how we approach them – smile, shoulders back, firm handshake, eye contact – and in the process their name doesn’t register. there’s a simple solution – ‘what was that?… oh gillian, thanks. i’m bad with names so i like to get people to repeat them.’ pepper the subsequent conversation with ‘gillians’ and a subtle bond will develop between you.
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wait, they have names?
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You forgot her name but still pretty silly of her to walk away like that if she liked you enough to give the number.
With the alcohol she was feeling courageous and wanted to try something she saw in a tv show.
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Needing a name is overrated since people rarely use eachother’s names in conversation.
Fact is, that I didn’t speak my current girlfriend’s name even once though the whole seduction process, since I was nervous that my pronunciation of her uncommon name would be slightly off!
Even now, three years later, I probably haven’t spoken my girlfriend’s name to her in months, even though we converse daily.
So forgetting a name is no problem. You could probably go through a whole relationship never knowing someone’s name. In fact that sounds like a fun experiment.
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HA typical DC girl…. gotta love it
Like I always say, “They all fuck the same, they just wear different clothes”
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bzzzt FOUL! Bad PUA!
The yoga instructor I number closed at Local 16 thought I had forgotten her name but I repeated it, along with her best friends name, the marathon she had just run in and where she worked.
got the digits.
nyahhhhhh
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What exactly was your important “mission” that was unaccomplished, like I need to ask. Oh right, dick in pussy. Wow, what a man.
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I forget the name at the number close a minimum of 5 times a month. It may be the alcohol I’ve consumed that night but I’m pretty sure you’re spot on…I’m just not that into her if I forget the name after speaking with her for 7-10 minutes. I usually have to get a buddy to sidle up and introduce himself.
The hot ones are tough to forget.
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with age comes memory loss.
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8 Virgle: When can we meet?
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dude, that was you? I saw that. It was by the downstairs bar, right? She was given you IODs long before she walked away. Better luck next time playa!
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What if you’re just naturally bad with names like I am? They’re not going to believe that if you tell them. But if you remember all the other key details of the conversation, you could recite those back to show that you were focusing on “the important details” or something.
Or exploit young female’s love of psycho-babble and explain that you’re a more visual learner (not in those words), you’re great with faces but not so much with names.
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15 agnostic. Baffle ’em with bullshit? Not too hard when you’re scoring bimbos 99% of the time.
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a gang of dangerous hipsters in white Hanes t-shirts and superbly chiseled body fat
Hipsters with chiseled body fat? Ha!
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i’m bad at remembering names regardless of looks. it’s why i usually ask again midway through the conversation.
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So instead of simply manning up and admitting your mistake, you’re claiming that it’s the woman’s fault you forgot her name because she wasn’t hot enough. Right.
C’mon. Rationalizing your mistakes and making excuses isn’t very alpha of you. In fact, it’s the the kind of thing I’d expect you to chastise women for doing. And when you do it, it opens up new lines of inquiry, such as: Why were you deigning to hit on her if she wasn’t that attractive? Trying to slump-break? But why bother with that when you have a “stable of regulars” to fall back on?
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When you are naturally attracted to each other it’s easier
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I ALWAYS forget names, when first meeting someone, usually a guy, or even when i am introduced to a group. ESPECIALLY when its a situation like approaching a female.
Listen, sometimes guys forget my name, most of the time i forget theirs. Here’s the thing: what you have to do is repeat the name a few times when you first meet them, rhyme it with something, or give them a nickname. Nicknaming people is key, that use to be my game. If a guy would come up to me, and introduce himself…i’d give him some kind of nickname – nothing rude, or messed up…but something funny, or easily catchy. That was a test for me…especially in stuck up towns like DC…if a guy didnt want a cool nickname, or was like…”thats not my name, call me (insert yuppie trash name)” then i wouldnt spend my time talking to them.
The ball is also in the court of the other person to set apart youself from the people in the group…there might be a bunch of good looking guys- who range from 5-8 ranges, but if most are retards or full of themselves, then i am only going to remember the guy who stood out, and told a joke, or made a different connection.
Most people in DC are assholes, most chicks think they deserve better than anyone can afford to give them. Most guys think that most chicks can be impressed by a chilled martini and a business card. So, when i prepare myself for a night out on the town, i get ready to deal with rolling of eyes from my female peers, and men who only want to talk about what kind of wine i drink. I dont care about their names…their yuppie names which are derivatives of the douche baggery of their incomplete lives..
Well, that’s until i roll to my hideouts where they sell PBR cans, and floor hasnt been mopped since the 1980’s…Now, if someone joins the conversation, and likes to hang out with my little possee. I’ll give a guy my number – and my name, if i like him – i like getting gamed, its great. But see, most chicks in DC get defensive when they are getting gamed. They want a guy to remember everything, and do everything right. Well, he wont, and nobody can do that. Just let a guy game you the way he knows – if you dig it…then game him back. If you dont, then move on…
Another problem, most people in DC have no game (especially girls)…they are clones of eachother…they all have the same generic name….and they get mad and storm off people dont remember that generic crap name….
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i never remember names unless it’s someone i’m REALLY into. so it’s probably the same way with guys remembering names. if you’re not really into that person, then why even waste time or energy anyway?
if i’m not into him and he is persistent in talking to me, i use my fake name :). this concept probably deserves a post entry of its own.
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sara/ms perpetual rant/neu anonym/blueberry/raspberry,
I am curious, what do you think of the comment from The Fox?
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Girls simply show up. Meanwhile, guys have to approach, game, lead a conversation, and be planning five steps ahead so that “things just happen” and you “have chemistry” before many girls will put in even the most minimal effort. And I’m supposed to remember your name 100% of the time after all that? If you are having fun and a good convo I don’t see why retelling the person your name is that big of a deal.
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You forgot her name but still pretty silly of her to walk away like that if she liked you enough to give the number.
With the alcohol she was feeling courageous and wanted to try something she saw in a tv show.
she’s a law student. says it all, really. she probably saw the walk away maneuver on law and order.
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I love how you own up to your mistakes, like forgetting the girl’s name, by blaming it on her “subpar” looks. Clearly, your forgetfulness and always-in-her-pants one track mind is her fault.
I hope she gave you a fake number anyway.
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i deleted her number before i even closed my phone.
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23 U.L. Fox seems a bit full of herself actually. Ms. “I’m too cool for school”, Ms. “I’m so over it.” Ms.”Aloof 2008.” Ms. “I know all the games, I accept games, I play games and like being played, let’s game each other, life is a game, games people play.”
The only game worth playing is the game of love. Does she have a clue about the greatest game of all? She’s talking “posse’, “douchebaggery”, “hideouts”, “Chicks and Dicks” (Oh, wait, that’s a great song by Junior Senior!. Game, game, game….the lingo is so passe’ and tiresome. The vibe is shallow and “self-controlled” and a million other negative images….to me anyway. Boring, very boring.
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27 “i deleted her number before i even closed my phone.”
Trust me, she was thrilled.
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“i deleted her number before i even closed my phone.”
What a bad ass!
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Blaming the fact that you struck out on the girl not being attractive enough reminds me of that “striped shirt guy” post:
http://www.lookatmystripedshirt.com/articleLAMSS.asp
“When I do not hook up with a girl at that club, I will say that the place is “full of skanks”! We will wait in a long line to go to another bar only to strike out again!
I will give up and decide to order a gyro off of a street vendor! I will make fun of him to my friends for being foreign! I will look ridiculous purchasing my gyro because people will be able to tell by my striped shirt and tinted sunglasses that I struck out and am settling for a gyro!
I will make one last attempt to hook up by trying to coax two big girls who are also ordering gyros to coming back to my place for “after hours”! When they say no I will make fun of them for being fat! I will leave!”
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whats up with everyone hating on roissy today?
this post is pretty much on the money.
I do have a tendency to forget girls names all the time when i approach, but then I forget names of all the new people I meet, through friends or otherwise. Beers = bad memory.
but if the girl is super hot then I will probably put down my beer for a second and take notice.
this reminds me that I need to go back to the old days when i didn’t drink when i went out. Raises your game by a good amt.
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candy cane,
Ooh, a new name! I hadn’t realized.
If you have hatred for Game and games, wouldn’t that mean that you will end up hating, basically, the majority of people out there? I would think that is a bad thing.
Also, you talk about “Love”, but these people just met. Wouldn’t they need to get to know each other first?
And, people meet in bars and clubs and all sorts of places. And I know that this must be very Politically Incorrect, but, it is still for the Guy to approach the Girl. And, ultimately, it is the Girl that evaluates the Guy.
It isn’t until the Girl has evaluated the Guy (in most instances) and decided that he is worth seeing… and then see him again and again, that can really evaluate how she feels for him and he for her.
Only after that, does Love have a chance at entering the picture.
But, until then, they have to meet. They have to talk. In all likelihood, he needs to make her laugh. She needs to turn him on.
Call it Game, call it Charisma, call it whatever, but, hating on that can not be a good thing.
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The #1 requirement for Game (and Happiness) is self-delusion.
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33 U.L.
“wouldn’t that mean that you will end up hating, basically, the majority of people out there?”
Hmmm, let’s see. I had exactly four friends over today; two men and two women, none of which are into ‘game’. Perhaps, I’m wasting my time here. Perhaps? Of course I am!! Of the friends I saw today, one is married, one is separated, one is engaged, and one is in an on/off relationship.
The married one is very happy, and I could not imagine in my wildest dream that he used “game” as it’s defined and discussed here to snag his woman. He is so not the type. The one who is engaged is a great story. The man knew her father, is 13 years younger than her, wooed her in a very straightforward manner; with persistence, honesty, humor, and intelligence. Quite simply the man knew what he wanted: Her. Neither has been happier. I cannot imagine the term “game” ever passed through his mind, or hers.
I know what you’re trying to say; that it’s just terminology. But hearing it from roissy, well…it just smells bad somehow. He seems so unsavory and I don’t feel like compiling the evidence regarding his terminology as I don’t care to seriously try to convince anyone of my opinions. If they agree, great. If not, great.
The friend who is separated is also a “what you see is what you get” type of man. The one who is on/off with her boyfriend is just who she is. He is who he is (as he is also a dear friend)…no pretense, no games, no bullshit, no posturing FROM DAY ONE. It is possible to just simply be yourself, but granted it must be a confident self. That’s the only thing I agree with roissy on. Self confidence is a must for a healthy relationship.
Personally, I was hit on today by the plumber no less. He disqualified himself with a statement that let me know he is basically a bigot. If he knew “game” he may have been able to hide it, but my instinct told me he was not for me even before he let his racist remark slip. Another man who hit on me recently, complained too much about the ex-wife. I’m sure if he knew game he would have hidden his displeasure with his ex-wife. Personally, I prefer knowing that kind of information sooner rather than later.
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“Perhaps, I’m wasting my time here. Perhaps? Of course I am!!”
I don’t really know what you are talking about.
But, about people meeting at Bars and Night Clubs: do you end up hating these people?
I am really curious.
Personally, I prefer knowing that kind of information sooner rather than later.
And if you were the Plumbers sister? or the other man? What advice would you give them? So they can improve their chances with the next girl?
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37 U.L. Now, why would I want to improve the plumber’s chances with the next girl; as you put it? It’s not my work, it’s his. Really it’s none of my business, and I doubt seriously he would take my advice. If I could tell him anything, I’d probably tell him to read a book, listen to a CD, dance a jig, gain more self confidence, drop his ego once in a while.
His mind is filled with self limiting garbage. Read anything that expands your mind, improves your self image, gives you courage, inspires your imagination, opens your heart, heals your wounds, makes you laugh, causes you to think, consider something different, helps you understand yourself and other human beings-stuff like that. Mostly people are not into “personal growth”. It seems like too much work. They’d rather anesthetize. I’m guilty of that too to some degree, but a lot less than I used to be.
I don’t hate people at the bars and nightclubs in general. Depends on where I go. Some bars have more–what I consider low lifes–than others. The one man I do hate, was a big game player and he used me pure and simple. We basically avoid each other, while his girlfriend eyes me constantly. They usually leave shortly after I enter an establishment (bar/nightclub). 😀
I love dancing, but not drinking. If the music is good, I’m there. I have many friends in town where I live and enjoy it whenever I go out and often get hit on, but I’m very picky. I am looking for a REAL man; as in authentic from square one. Authentic could be “You look hot tonight! May I dance with you?” “I love your smile. May I buy you a drink?” “Are you with someone?” My answer would be yes or no–a friendly yes or no.
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P.S. U.L. You seem to want to avoid unpleasantness in dealing with women in general. There really is no way to make yourself safe and immune to rejection. I’ve had very straightforward men hit on me. In fact, the last one I mentioned was very much “what you see is what you get.” He told me flat out he was highly attracted to me and even though I don’t feel the same attraction, he continues to buy me drinks and treat me with respect. He really likes me even though I rejected him! It’s nice to have someone like you. I don’t take it for granted. Because he is persistent and consistent, even though I don’t think either of us is ready for a relationship, at least he is authentic and I’m starting to like him more as a friend. You could say I have trust issues, so I need to respect that.
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Now, why would I want to improve the plumber’s chances with the next girl;
Like I said, if you were his sister, what advice would you give?
His mind is filled with self limiting garbage.
How long have you known this person?
…gain more self confidence, drop his ego once in a while.
You want him to gain some self confidince AND drop his ego?
“…but I’m very picky”
Most women are. They tend to go for guys who know what they want and have self confidence.
“You look hot tonight! May I dance with you?”
I am curious, when was the last time you said those words to a guy?
“I love your smile. May I buy you a drink?”
I am curious, when was the last time you said those words to a guy?
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You seem to want to avoid unpleasantness in dealing with women in general.
Not at all. If you are looking to analyze me, well, you should start with that I live in isolation. I don’t actually know any people in my state.
However, I figure that after I solve that problem, I should start meeting girls. And the whole Bar/Club completely baffles me. The few times in my life that I have been in one I felt like a foreigner.
But, it is up to me to rectify my situation. So,I figured that I would start learning.
I am all ears to advice. Specifically, I am all ears to advice that gets results.
I often have people giving advice. Usually women. And the advice is almost always generic. “Be Yourself”. “Be confident”. That kind of thing.
They never actually say how to get the confidence (with girls), but that is a subject for another day.
And the fact that I have “been myself” my entire life, well, that never seems to faze anyone.
But, I am grateful that they have taken an interest. So, I pursue, “Please, tell me more. What should I say? And, after she says ‘Hi’ back, then what?”
From here, the advice falls off a cliff. Especially if they see that I am taking what they say to heart.
They see that I am about to apply their advice with a specific girl and, then, quickly, they say, “No, don’t!”
Me: “What?”
Them: “Uh, I dunno. Just don’t”.
Fair enough. They did not have any real confidence in what they were offering. It was not actually Applicable Advice.
They can see that I am a Nice Guy who will simply get rejected. Again. On their advice.
It is not their fault, they don’t know what works. They have never been a Nice Guy approaching some Attractive Girl.
So, I go looking. And, soon enough, I start finding some actual specific advice. And, luckily, most of the advice is similar to the other advice.
That is, the guys who are successful at approaching girls tend to have the same things to say. Confirmation is a great thing.
But, there is one problem: it seems like most girls absolutely hate the guys giving the advice (although, I don’t think that they have ever met). And, being the Nice Guy that I am, this concerns me.
So, here I am…talking to you and any one else who will engage me on this.
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“An exellent post on a good blog, you can make some money with your blog, like me at http://blogmakemoney2.blogspot.com“
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So, here I am…talking to you and any one else who will engage me on this.
Usually Lurking, you sound intelligent, white, nerdy and not a crazy. What are you looking for, specifically? Do you just want generic Attractive Girl or are you looking for a girl with more to her than looks? Just sex or companionship that can lead to LTRs? Do you want lots of girls or a regular girl?
If you’re willing to put in the time with one girl, and you’re okay with being patient, lots of talking and a long-term thing, here’s my advice.
Find a girl who is people-shy, like you. Go to Craigslist in your city/area and go to the Strictly Platonic section — not w4m or casual encounters or any of the other places. Find girls that describe themselves as not life of the party, that say they read books or have introvert-signifying hobbies. Bonus is Asian girls who aren’t trendy, because they love white guys. Don’t ask me why. They just do. You gain an instant +10 to all your stats vs. Asian girls because you’re white. Around spring is the best time to do this, and we’re coming up on that season.
Most guys won’t put in the time to crack the shy nuts, because such women don’t give up sex easily. You can become friends with them, and escalate easily once you gain her trust. Send her music when you sense that she’s starting to like you — go on YouTube and look up some anime music videos with romantic themes. Shy girls love the kind of songs in those.
The entire process may take days, weeks, or even months. If you think that it’s not going anywhere, or if she’s pulling away and never around, start over. If you succeed, meet her at a secluded but public place like a local library. Do innocent things on the first date like kiss her on the cheek, touch her on the arm, while being friendly. Not too forward, but not too distant.
It will really trip out girls like this because most of the time they value their privacy and personal space quite a bit, but they have all kinds of crazy fantasies floating around in ther heads. As soon as you cross the friendship line with her by touching her (girls like these aren’t touchy-feely with males unless the guy in question is a romantic prospect), you’re good.
There you go. No parties, no clubs, no bars, no loud noises, no in-your-face rejections. We hate those as much as you do, you know.
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Usually Lurking, you sound intelligent, white, nerdy and not a crazy.
Intelligent? Math was easy, Life was hard. So that is a push.
White? Check.
Not a Crazy? I am working on that.
What are you looking for, specifically? Do you just want generic Attractive Girl or are you looking for a girl with more to her than looks? Just sex or companionship that can lead to LTRs? Do you want lots of girls or a regular girl?
My last girlfriend (3.5 years, almost led to marriage) was a Molecular Biology major who got her masters in Bio-Chem. However, I have never dated a girl that I was attracted to. I don’t know if that answered your question.
Also, I have every intention of getting married and having children.
It is funny what you say about the Shy Asian girls, at a previous job, I had a sweet Chinese-American who was into me, but I was involved at the time.
And “shy” is very sexy. Something about a shy girl letting loose on you…awesome!
Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it. Granted, I don’t think I could “approach” someone online. I would feel creepy. But, other than that, I like what you had to say.
Also, it had a really sweet quality to it. Which is great. Sweetness, that is, caring for someone that could really use it, is under-appreciated.
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#36 agnostic: Inferiors dream of the day their superiors make a single false-step so they can have their Carnivalesque day of schadenfreude.
It’s pretty impressive the way you can type while simultaneously giving Roissy a loving handjob.
Give me a break. Roissy usually makes some interesting points if nothing else, but this post was ridiculous. It’s not his screwing up that’s the issue; it’s that he made up a bullshit rationalization to explain why. If he’d presented it as, “Hey, even I screw up sometimes,” you wouldn’t hear nearly as much sniping. But because he made a ridiculous excuse — “It’s your fault I screwed up because you’re ugly! If you’d been hotter I would have done better, and just ignore the fact that there is no way to falsify that statement!” — he’s rightly getting shit for it.
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i always remember the names of cool/interesting/attractive people (male or female) who happen to attract my attention, and rarely the names of people who don’t. so i see what you mean
i find the title of this post annoying, though !danger!
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wow dude, nice blog. you’re a fucking douche.
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whats up with everyone hating today?
Inferiors dream of the day their superiors make a single false-step so they can have their Carnivalesque day of schadenfreude. That’s why the masses love celebrity news / gossip, almost always embarrassing. “Celebrities” includes CEOs, politicians, etc. Or when the hot cheerleader gets a big pimple on her forehead.
Imagine if some loser wrote a post about how he had a huge crush on a girl who he barely knew, sent her a card for Valentine’s Day, and got a cold response.
That’s too easy of a target to pick on, so no one would bother. Better to try to tear down someone you envy.
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UL
But, there is one problem: it seems like most girls absolutely hate the guys giving the advice (although, I don’t think that they have ever met). And, being the Nice Guy that I am, this concerns me.
lemme ‘splain it to ya:
girls hate when dudes dole out The Advice, because it increases the probability that the confident, fearless asshole who’s hitting on them is actually a faux-confident, faux-fearless faux-asshole.
therefore, The Advice increases the probability that said girls, who want to fall for assholes, might accidentally fall for faux-assholes who are actually nice guys.
…and that would be very very bad.
if this strikes you as a little … illogical, then blame it on your pesky logic habit, which in turn can be blamed on your pesky y chromosome.
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“This is a prime example of what can go wrong during a pickup when the girl you are talking to is not hot enough to keep you mentally focused on the task at hand.”
Great point here and this has happened to me many times. Most times, I don’t even bother with these girls unless they come up and speak to me first or we are introduced by a third party. VERY few women interest me enough to “give it my all” and when this is the case, you’re usually better off backing out. Note: this is not the same thing as making up a fake excuse to back out because you have no balls.
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@Reggie #45
“Roissy usually makes some interesting points if nothing else, but this post was ridiculous. It’s not his screwing up that’s the issue; it’s that he made up a bullshit rationalization to explain why. If he’d presented it as, “Hey, even I screw up sometimes,” you wouldn’t hear nearly as much sniping. But because he made a ridiculous excuse — “It’s your fault I screwed up because you’re ugly! If you’d been hotter I would have done better, and just ignore the fact that there is no way to falsify that statement!” — he’s rightly getting shit for it.”
I don’t think he’s “rationalizing” anything as the same thing has happened to me many times.
I don’t consider myself a “pick up artist”, but I too get bored when talking to middling to slightly above average chicks(who’ve nothing else to offer) and my “game” suffers for it. Basically I’m thinking about something else, not her. Talking to women requires your full attention.
So I don’t bother starting conversations with women like this unless I think I can quickly sleep with them, they introduce themselves first, or a third party introduces us.
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ip#49
VERY few women interest me enough to “give it my all” and when this is the case, you’re usually better off backing out.
ambiguous statement.
you’re better off backing out
(1) when the girl doesn’t interest you enough (because … she doesn’t interest you enough)
–or–
(2) when she does interest you enough (because you’re afraid the ice coursing through your ice-cold player veins might melt a little)
?
your words mean #2, but i think you meant to write #1. of course, given your statement above (with ‘very’ in capital letters), #1 would mean you must back out a vast majority of the time.
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#50 ip
Talking to women requires your full attention.
apparently you’re a poor multitasker.
in my experience, giving ‘full attention’ to a woman you’ve just met is just as much of a cardinal sin as is being too available. you should be attentive enough to spit back details if quizzed, but dismissive enough not to appear overly eager/desperate.
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U.L. 40,
The sister advice would be the same only because it’s my method. READ A BOOK!! Sounds like you may read a lot already. Did you check out the link I gave you on the other post? No? Why not? It may help you tremendously.
Regarding my assumption about the plumbers self-limiting mental garbage. LOL It’s a safe assumption in my viewpoint, seeing that we are virtually ALL filled with self-limiting beliefs. His particular self-limitation, which he displayed in full technicolor was the belief that “there is not enough to go around” and the foreigners are getting it! (His reaction to my abundant “We live in the land of opportunity!” statement.)
As far as dropping the ego to gain self confidence. YES!! There is nothing like having no perfect image to defend to free you to make “mistakes”, get out there, learn, LIVE. The ego, as I understand it, is the most self limiting thing of all. How can you learn when you’re attempting to appear as if you already know? It takes great courage to drop one’s ego, but is so worth the effort. One way, you might try; DANCE. If you don’t like dancing, RUN, if you don’t like running, WALK…do something with your body that does not involve your mind so much.
You asked basically, do I approach men, tell them they look hot or whatever, and hit on them? Never. Am much more the attractor than the approacher. The most I may do is catch his eye, smile, and look approachable or ask a friend “if they know him” and introduce us. It’s a great way to meet people in general.
You might be an enneagram type five, a true introvert. A genius? Possibly.
I’m attracted to your sexy mind. 😀
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The sister advice would be the same only because it’s my method. READ A BOOK!!
Candy, very few people have never read a book. I am not sure if this advice will be that helpful to the lonely and frustrated man.
Did you check out the link I gave you on the other post? No? Why not?
Candy, I already told you that I did. Please tell me that you are listening.
Regarding my assumption about the plumbers self-limiting mental garbage. LOL It’s a safe assumption in my viewpoint, seeing that we are virtually ALL filled with self-limiting beliefs.
It might be true that we are all filled with self-limiting beliefs/garbage, but, some guys are very happy with their social life and other guys are lonely and frustrated. So, I am not sure if the self-limiting stuff is absolutely applicable.
There is nothing like having no perfect image to defend to free you to make “mistakes”, get out there, learn, LIVE.
This is an example of the “New Age” stuff going over my head. I am sure that it is very helpful, but I feel like I am hearing some wise man speak to me in Japanese. He might be a genius and a guru, but I am lost.
I have been making mistakes, and learning and living my whole life. One of my points that I have been making is that I think that I have been learning the wrong things. And the things that I did learn have really held me back socially. (Also, I am very active. Hockey and Tennis are great things.)
You asked basically, do I approach men, tell them they look hot or whatever, and hit on them? Never. Am much more the attractor than the approacher.
Ah, the life of the girl. So nice. It was heart-warming to read about Lemmonex losing that weight and going out and buying sexy clothes. And then having her social life really change.
However, for me, after I lost all my weight (I was enormous), well, little changed with the girls. It was still my job to do the approaching. And that is one of the reasons why I am here. I am eager to learn about Bar and Club culture.
But, like I said before, so many girls seem to hate what is expressed here. Maybe it is simply because Roissy does it in a crude and blunt way. But, he is a guy after all. That is how we naturally operate.
And what he says lines up with what I hear and read elsewhere.
So, I want to square things. I want to hear from you, from Rina, Lemmonex, Clio and everyone else. Hope has been helpful. But, she is something of an outlier on this blog…a girl who never goes out to Bars and Clubs and likely never will. I feel like I can already relate to her. I would like to be able to relate to others.
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54 U.L.
Sorry Mr. U.L. Did not look at the other post where you mentioned going to the link. Sounds like it did not appeal to you, though. It sounds like you have already decided that it’s “New Age stuff that goes over your head”. Not much I can do about that. We all have our own path and interests. If it interested you, it would not go over your head because you would apply your intelligence to it. That goes for all of us. So it’s not your cup of tea. I can only offer what has helped me personally. If I mention Osho? You’ll probably say the same thing. Osho would address your “lonely and frustrated” issue head on. Also http://www.abraham-hicks.com would address your “lonely and frustrated” issue head on.
But if that doesn’t appeal to you, what does? Having problems and getting sympathy for them? If getting sympathy is what you want, you will stay exactly where you are. It’s not any easier for the rest of us, believe it or not. The guys who you say are enormously happy with their social lives, may be miserable in ways you don’t see or relate to at all. Then enneagram would help you see that in a huge, huge way; but then that doesn’t interest you.
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U.L.
How about learning to be more assertive as opposed to passive? I could use some training on that subject myself and are looking into it. You would think I have no problem being assertive. I am too aggressive! Being a bitch does not always get me what I want, if you know what I mean. I’m either too passive or too aggressive, but am learning.
Being assertive is a SKILL and one you will definitely not learn from roissy who seems to bounce back and forth between aggressive and passive-aggressive.
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Granted, I don’t think I could “approach” someone online. I would feel creepy.
It’s not any creepier than approaching girls in real life, unless your ultimate intention is to slit her throat then drag her off into a ditch — and even then it’s much easier to do that in real life because you don’t have a paper trail of e-mail or chat exchanges.
You have nothing to lose, and only friendship to gain even if it doesn’t work out romantically. Shy girls make very loyal friends, because they tend not to have that many. This is why I said go to the Strictly Platonic section, and not any others. Lessened expectations, and you aren’t doing a “pick up,” but more of an organic, evolved friendship.
Also, don’t be so eager to change who you’re comfortable being. That usually does not change who you are, and ends up being creepier than if you were just being naturally introverted. There is nothing wrong with introverts.
I love effortlessly deep, introverted and intelligent men, and many other women do, too.
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57 Hope
I’m with U.L. on the online dating. It would feel creepy to me too. I prefer book stores and coffee shops.
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It sounds like you have already decided that it’s “New Age stuff that goes over your head”. Not much I can do about that. We all have our own path and interests. If it interested you, it would not go over your head because you would apply your intelligence to it. That goes for all of us. So it’s not your cup of tea. I can only offer what has helped me personally. If I mention Osho? You’ll probably say the same thing. Osho would address your “lonely and frustrated” issue head on. Also http://www.abraham-hicks.com would address your “lonely and frustrated” issue head on.
Candy, you interpret so much from so little. And you seem really defensive about these resources. All I said was that I had visited the link(s). That was it.
On another day and on another subject, I said that I have difficulty understanding the “New Age” stuff. I don’t appreciate Shakespeare either. But, I ain’t dissin’ the guy.
In all honesty, there is only so much one man can read at once. And changing jobs and moving are my biggest priorities right now.
But, I am a fairly thorough guy. In time, I guarantee you, I will get to it. Actually, I started about a week ago. I started researching some of those authors on Amazon to see which books got the most reviews and the most positive reviews to see what a good starting point would be. But, like I said, it will be a while.
But if that doesn’t appeal to you, what does? Having problems and getting sympathy for them?
If that is what I communicated, then I have failed. I want to understand. That is my main goal. Second would be to be understood. But that second goal is to be achieved in real-life, not on some blog.
The guys who you say are enormously happy with their social lives, may be miserable in ways you don’t see or relate to at all.
I can not tell you if they are happy. I can only go by what some person says and then take them at their word. But, after a while, you start to see groupings and trends.
I know what I have experienced and what my attitude soon became. And I can compare it to others. What they experienced and what their attitudes were. If you don’t like something, then do something about it. That is why I am here. (This blog only plays a small part, but it is important in that it is where you and I interact).
Being assertive is a SKILL and one you will definitely not learn from roissy who seems to bounce back and forth between aggressive and passive-aggressive.
Well, I am all ears when it comes to specific and applicable advice.
There was a brilliant Mathematician in the early 20th century who castigated others for being too critical of “wrong” theories. He said that the criticism was preventing young mathematicians from posting theories for fear of being humiliated because they were wrong. This was especially damaging because these “wrong” theories often sparked numerous other attempts, with a successful one usually cropping up soon after the first “wrong” attempt.
Because of his influence, he was able to usher in a new era of Mathematical greatness, not for himself, but for the Mathematical community and world at large.
What was most important though was that people needed to offer up SPECIFIC solutions. From there, a truly open dialogue would follow.
Roissy offers up his observations and advice. He is often blunt and crude. (Again, he is a guy…this is our natural way. Believe it.)
Some people offer up counter observations/advice. Some look to refine. Some are uninterested.
But many look to “hate”. This wouldn’t be so terrible, but they never seem to offer any of their own specific, applicable advice.
He, Roissy, says that he sees these things in real life. Some times they are are referred to as being “field tested”. Maybe you think that he is a complete liar.
But often enough, the responses imply that the girls have low self-esteem; they aer sluts; bimbos; naive.
And, again, this does not jive with what I have seen and what I have read elsewhere (I love to do research).
So, whatever else you think of the guy, he says what he has to say and makes it available for us to read. And that is what I do.
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@52 johnny five
“in my experience, giving ‘full attention’ to a woman you’ve just met is just as much of a cardinal sin as is being too available. you should be attentive enough to spit back details if quizzed, but dismissive enough not to appear overly eager/desperate.
”
There’s a difference between giving full attention and “appearing desperate” and knowing *exactly* what’s going on. I of course, am talking about the latter. Obviously roissy was not tuned in enough to spit back details when he was quizzed, which is obviously “bad”(but not really that bad since he wasn’t very interested in the first place).
Come on people, I know we’re nerds, but let’s try being less literal and desperate to prove someone “wrong”. 🙂
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@51 johnny five
I kind of misspoke there. I should have said, if a woman doesn’t truly interest me, then it’s usually better to keep looking (unless I’m “practicing” or just having fun).
The way I worded things, it does kind of make it seem like I’m saying two opposite things in one sentence.
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59 U.L.
So let me know what you think when you have a chance to explore further. I think you may be a five, I’m an eight with nine wing. (See Susan Sarandon)
In my personal opinion, the guys here who call themselves “pickup artists” are in fact bullshit artists. I am ALL for making peace with where you are and moving forward from there. So if you want to talk to a girl and are uncomfortable, tell her! For example, you’re in a book store and see a girl sitting by herself reading a book or mag and you find her attractive/interesting and want to talk to her.
#1 you have to ask yourself what you want long term in approaching someone of the opposite sex in the first place. You said you want to marry and have children. If you’re like 99.9% of us who are honest with ourselves, you’d say you want someone who loves and accepts you EXACTLY AS YOU ARE, and whom you can grow with. So, when do you then start BEING WHO YOU ARE? Tomorrow?
The cowards on this site would say; oh maybe after we’ve had sex with her for 3 months and she’s so anxious, insecure, and chemically bonded (oh, they don’t believe in physiology and the power of oxytocin. I forget. ) and under our thumb. But then she’s just a doormat with no self respect so time to dump the clingy noose around their neck. Sorry, I digress..:)
OR you can go up to said girl and say something like “Pardon me (give shy look–you ARE right?) I’m feeling kind of awkward here but noticed you’re sitting by yourself and wondered if you might like some company for a few minutes. (smile awkwardly looking at empty chair). (Is that a scenario you would feel O.K. with?)
Wait for the answer. Make it O.K. for her to say or do anything, including give you a dirty look if that’s her mood! She may say she’d rather be alone or she has a boyfriend, or she may feel awkward herself and say…mmmmm. o.k. in her little voice. If you get the go ahead, ask her what she’s reading, though you would be smart to know before hand, lest it be Cosmopolitan magazine or some other atrocity. 🙂
But in general, women are compassionate and may be disarmed by your vulnerability. If not; give yourself 50 points for being yourself! It takes COURAGE to be yourself, but what is more fulfilling? You/we/all of us are uncomfortable when we’re stretching ourselves beyond our comfort zone. It will ALWAYS be that way. Satisfaction is short lived as a new horizon wants to be expanded and explored.
BTW I liked your mathematician story. “A man with a new idea is a fool, until the idea succeeds.” –Mark Twain. Which brings to mind the importance of humor. Try to laugh at your failures because they are not to be taken so seriously after all. In the end if you truly be yourself, you’ll far surpass the posers on this site in real success, being greater joy in your life.
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Motivation is the hard road, inspiration is the easy road. Take the easy road.
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In my personal opinion, the guys here who call themselves “pickup artists” are in fact bullshit artists.
Call them whatever you want: Pick Up Artists, Seducers, Players, Don Juan’s, BS’ers or call them nothing at all. A Rose by any other name…
They are sexual animals of the male variety and, for the most part, get what they want. Or, at least, more than most. Underestimating that factor in the life of Men will always be a mistake.
#1 you have to ask yourself what you want long term in approaching someone of the opposite sex in the first place.
Candy, how can determine what I want long-term before even meeting someone. It is true that I have every intention of getting married and having children, but, that is a result of a relationship…not it’s cause.
I spend time with people because they are fun, smart, caring, interesting, goof-balls, easy going, and all sorts of reasons. I imagine most people are that way.
…you’d say you want someone who loves and accepts you EXACTLY AS YOU ARE, and whom you can grow with. So, when do you then start BEING WHO YOU ARE? Tomorrow?
I don’t want love from someone I just met. That is putting a HUGE burden on that person without them, likely, realizing it.
I simply want to meet them, and have it advance from there.
“Pardon me (give shy look–you ARE right?) I’m feeling kind of awkward here but noticed you’re sitting by yourself and wondered if you might like some company for a few minutes. (smile awkwardly looking at empty chair).
Not bad. I might say something like that. It actually reminds me of something in a movie called Roger Dodger. The main character talks about incorporating your personality into the approach.
Make it O.K. for her to say or do anything, including give you a dirty look if that’s her mood!
It will never be OK for her or anyone to give me a dirty look. I understand that some people will do it, I am not denying reality, but it will never be OK.
Especially with actions that are as obviously innocent as you have described them.
give yourself 50 points for being yourself!
I am myself every second of every day. When I was awkwardly trying different personas when I was a young teen, I was being myself. When I started going to the library to research basic social skills, I was being myself. When the assholes her regale their stories of assholeness, they were and continue to be themselves.
It is very, very hard to not be yourself.
If anybody here remembers Bobby on the Brady Bunch impersonating Humphrey Bogart because he wanted to have a more dynamic personality, he was being himself (Nerd Alert). He felt he needed more (i.e. recognized his feelings) and sought a solution. It failed, but, then again, he wasn’t fearing failure.
Try to laugh at your failures because they are not to be taken so seriously after all.
I have been laughing for a long time; the joke is getting old. I remember that you said that you want a “REAL man” in a previous post. Well, a REAL man owns up to his failures and then acts to rectify it.
In the end if you truly be yourself, you’ll far surpass the posers on this site in real success, being greater joy in your life.
Assuming that most of the guys here (you were not talking about Hope and Clio, right?) are not lying and that they are being themselves, well, I have a hard time seeing them as posers.
They were able to identify what they want. Lots of Wild Sex from Hot Girls with the possibility of Love and, possibly, a Long Term Relationship. And they went after it.
They are guys after all. Their Sex Drive and the “pull” of Female Sexuality is absolutely intense. There is absolutely nothing like it.
But, they seem to be hated. For some reason when a woman finally bows to her Biological Needs (baby and, hopefully, Husband), nobody seems to hate her.
When a Man follows his Biological Needs (his sex drive), with success, he is hated.
This is part of what I am trying to understand.
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.
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“I don’t want love from someone I just met. That is putting a HUGE burden on that person without them, likely, realizing it. I simply want to meet them, and have it advance from there.”
A HUGE mistake–speaking of huge mistakes–is to not know what your long term goal is in dating. Why waste time on women who don’t have the same long term goal? How will you ever get to ‘married with children’, if you keep waffling on it? If you’re waffling, you’re allowing yourself an out so-to-speak. A “This may not work so I don’t want to get my hopes up too high” out which is self defeating. If you’re telling yourself it’s o.k., if you have to keep going back to square one with every girl you date, then that is where you’ll end up.
True, you will need some time to determine if you have compatible goals and if there’s a real possibility you could be “home” for each other. lAnd obviously, you cannot walk up to a person you just met and say “Love me forever!” I’m was only talking ice breakers.
When I say it’s O.K. for her to give you a dirty look, I’m just saying allow for the possibility and don’t take it personally if they do. You can always laugh at her reaction later on or imagine her having a really bad period. 🙂
“Assuming that most of the guys here are not lying and that they are being themselves, well, I have a hard time seeing them as posers.”
God, you’re so kind. I definitely see a lot of them as liars, posers, users, and cowards. I guess if that’s what they are, they’re being real in a sense. But I think they’re better INSIDE than what they act on the outside. They’re far more image and ‘the end justifies the means’ oriented. Much more ‘motivated’ to some shallow definition of success, where getting their ‘needs’ met is held in the higher regard than any other consideration of the fact that they’re dealing with human beings and not just means to an end. My I do go on!! 🙂
As far as women bowing to their biological need to have children; many use game to achieve just that. How do you feel about women using game to conceive a child?
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^ Or how about women using game to get their bills paid?
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If the strategies are turned around in order for women to get their “needs’ met–as in financial survival and baby-making–the cry from these posers would create a sonic boom. Yet that’s what happens. It’s called karma. Either that or they end up a dirty old man–best friends with their right hand.
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A HUGE mistake–speaking of huge mistakes–is to not know what your long term goal is in dating.
What date? We are talking about a person I have yet to even meet. How on Earth can I know what my long term goal is with a person I haven’t even met?
Why waste time on women who don’t have the same long term goal?
How would I know if I don’t even meet them? Isn’t that one of the reasons to “see” someone in the first place?
How will you ever get to ‘married with children’, if you keep waffling on it? If you’re waffling, you’re allowing yourself an out so-to-speak. A “This may not work so I don’t want to get my hopes up too high” out which is self defeating. If you’re telling yourself it’s o.k., if you have to keep going back to square one with every girl you date, then that is where you’ll end up.
Who is waffling? Honestly, what are you talking about?
Candy, I really think that you are projecting certain things on to me.
When I say it’s O.K. for her to give you a dirty look, I’m just saying allow for the possibility and don’t take it personally if they do.
Let me put it this way: if some girl will feel comfortable mistreating me, I will have no problem mistreating her. That kind of behaviour should never be excused.
I definitely see a lot of them as liars, posers, users, and cowards.
Well, if you think someone is lying, then that changes everything.
But, assuming that most people here are being mostly honest, then I can not see any of them as being Posers, Users or Cowards.
I would no more see one of these Guys as a Coward for pursuing his Biological Needs than I would see a Girl for pursuing hers.
Much more ‘motivated’ to some shallow definition of success…
Why define success for them? They are pursuing members of the opposite sex for sex and other things. And they do so unashamed.
Trust me when I say that I know what it is like to spend your youth ashamed and afraid to pursue what you actually want because you were trying to live up to someone else’s ideal(s).
And, again, I find their Needs no more shallow than the Needs of a typical girl. Granted, I am making a clear difference between Simple and Shallow.
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many use game to achieve just that. How do you feel about women using game to conceive a child?
Or how about women using game to get their bills paid?
If the strategies are turned around in order for women to get their “needs’ met–as in financial survival and baby-making–the cry from these posers would create a sonic boom.
I would need to better understand what you mean when you refer to a woman gaming a man, but, I will attempt ot answer anyway.
First, the Guy “gaming” the Girl:
When a Guy “Games” a girl, there should be no lying involved. She should never be mislead. She should never be lead to believe that if she has sex with him, then something like Marriage and Children are soon to follow.
He should not be implying that he likes long walks on the beach and that he sees white picket fences in their future.
Actually, from everything that I have read, he should do almost the opposite. He is to present himself as someone who goes after what he wants. It is more complicated than that, but I am trying to keep this short.
But, if I understand what you are saying about a Girl gaming a Guy, i think that we are talking about something very different.
I think that you are referring to deception.
This could be done in a number of ways.
– She could “trap” him into marrying her by getting prenant.
– She could get Child Support payments from a Guy who never wanted to have children.
– She could imply that she just wants to have fun and be with him, but, after time, she keeps hinting at Marriage even though she knows full-well that he never wanted to get married and never wanted to have children.
When a Guy games a Girl they both know that they both want to have sex.
But, if I understand you, when a Girl games a Guy, she is attempting to force him to do something (i.e. Get Married, Have Children, Support a Family Financialy, etc.) that he never wanted to do in the first place.
So, with all that said, i am always against lies and deception in any relationship.
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68 U.L.
“How on Earth can I know what my long term goal is with a person I haven’t even met?”
We are not communicating. Why on earth do you need any othr person on earth to determine YOUR long term goal? Are you a puppet or a man?
“How would I know if I don’t even meet them?”
See above.
“Who is waffling? Honestly, what are you talking about?”
See above.
“Assuming that most people here are being mostly honest, then I can not see any of them as being Posers, Users or Cowards.”
The most honest thing a person can do is #1 be honest with themselves about what they want. Problem is, so many are so consumed with what other people are doing, thinking, feeling, in relationship to THEM, they have no fucking clue whatsoever what they want or how to get it. It’s called living be default and then complaining about extremely inconsistent, frustrating, and unsatisfying results. Just because virtually everyone does that does not make it right. Think about it. Are you a rudderless sailboat? Join 99% of the human race, if you are.
#2: Most of these jerks know that they don’t have a clue. They’re loose canons. They want sex for sure–wild sex with hot women! Hooray!! They kinda want a girlfriend, or someone to date, or a friend with benefits, or perhaps to fall madly in love and get married and live happily ever after, or hook up for a while till their ego is pumped back up after they got dumped by some chick…. Are you getting this? Believe most here are not.
#3: The most honest thing anyone can do AFTER they figure out why the hell they even want to date in the first place is to be Honest (as in H-O-N-E-S-T) with those they hit on or are being hit on, as to what those intentions are. Simple enough? Who does it? Hardly anyone. Hence, look around. What do you see? Life in Hell. Well, generally a lot of people are suffering from all this.
You didn’t respond to 66 and 67.
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Candy, I am completely lost. I am trying to retrace what happened so I can make sense of it.
I thought that we were talking about Guys approaching Girls. This is what I was talking to Hope about and what I thought I was talking to you about (amongst other things).
You had given a scenario about approaching a girl at a Book Store. You then said that I needed to ask myself what I wanted in the Long Term, including Love.
I had said that trying to see that person, a person I had yet to meet, in some sort of Long Term Relationship of Love and whatever else would be a big burden and that it would be much better to simply appreciate the moment for what it is: A guy seeing an attractive girl and approaching her.
You then said,
A HUGE mistake–speaking of huge mistakes–is to not know what your long term goal is in dating. Why waste time on women who don’t have the same long term goal?
And, I will say it again, how can I know what my Long term goal is with someone I have never met?
And then you said,
Why on earth do you need any othr person on earth to determine YOUR long term goal?
How can I know what my long term goal is with that person if I have never met them? So, I see some girl at a Book Store and my long term goal should be marriage? I can not understand that.
At some point later on you implied that I was waffling; also, you were not sure if I was a puppet or a rudderless sailboat. Real nice.
They want sex for sure–wild sex with hot women! Hooray!!
Alright, now we are back on solid ground. Yes, I agree. Hooray for them.
Are you getting this?
Am I getting what? You mentioned so many things in a sort of stream of consciousness.
The most honest thing anyone can do AFTER they figure out why the hell they even want to date in the first place is to be Honest (as in H-O-N-E-S-T) with those they hit on or are being hit on, as to what those intentions are. Simple enough? Who does it? Hardly anyone.
Here, I really disagree.
Again, I can only speak for the people I have met and from what I have read (which lines up with what I have experienced).
The grand majority of these Guys are very upfront about what they want. And most Girls I know, especially when meeting a Guy at a Bar/Club, are not confused as to what the guy wants.
What do you see? Life in Hell.
I don’t see that. I don’t see that at all. I see a lot of young men who are really enjoying life. Some may try to explain that they are not truly happy, but these are so often women. The Male Sex Drive is an amazing thing.
You didn’t respond to 66 and 67.
Yes I did. I even quoted you.
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Your 69 post hadn’t posted yet when I was composing my response to 68.
I see a definite double standard here. There is a ton of ignorance, concealment, insecurity, assumptions being made, maneuvering, presenting false images, etc., etc., etc. etc. on both sides of the equation. To say one side is somehow more upfront or honest than the other is silly.
I’m just trying to point out AGAIN that women generally feel the same way about being used primarily for sex, as a man would feel about being used primarily as a sperm donor or for money. That’s it. I cannot say it any more clearly than that. And we can dance around the subject for days and days and still that is the truth whether you or any of the guys here want to jump up and down and say NO it’s not like that!!
As far as all the other points; I can’t–or I’m not willing to try to– make my view point any more clear than I have, so would rather drop it. No offense. But there comes a point when two people have to agree to disagree and in my mind, that time as come!
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U.L. Perhaps it’s me. I’m doing a Mon. thru Friday detox and am experiencing major brain fog. For a much more complete explanation of what I’m trying to convey I highly recommend “In Sync with the Opposite Sex” by Allison Armstrong. It’s a four CD set. You’ll find it on Amazon.com. She’s much funnier, more patient, compassionate, and smarter than I am.
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I see a definite double standard here. …To say one side is somehow more upfront or honest than the other is silly.
I was comparing what guys talk about here, Game, and what I thought you were talking about, Tricking or Forcing a man into providing resources.
Now, maybe that is not what you wanted to compare, I am not sure. But, if it is, then Game, as I understand, shouldnever involve lies.
A Man’s Sexuality should be up front. He does not get what he wants by trying to trick someone, but by a certain kind of Confidence and Dominance.
Whereas with the compared situation, we are talking about Girls deceiving Guys. The Guy never wanted to get married and never wanted to have children, but she found a way to get those from him.
Either way, you made reference to Sperm Donors; Guys have no problem, in general, being Sperm Donors.
To say one side is somehow more upfront or honest than the other is silly.
Well, I really disagree with you here. And I feel my position is very sympathetic to the plight of Young Women. Throughout most of Human History, there would have been no bones about what most Young Women wanted: Marriage and Children.
AFAIK, every society had some societal mechanism in place so that Girls could find a Life Long Partner.
That is now gone. When I was in college, I knew one girl who said upfront that what she wanted in life was to be a Wife and Mother. The grand majority of the other girls insisted that they did not want to get married.
Now, at the time, this may have been true. But, as they got older, they never became more honest about it. Sure, they would meet a guy, start dating and consistently push for the relationship to “advance”, but they would never say, “John, what I really want is to get married and have children”. Even though, that was almost always the ultimate result.
They don’t want to scare off guys, so they are never upfront about what they want.
To not know what a Young Man wants is beyond naive.
As far as all the other points; I can’t–or I’m not willing to try to– make my view point any more clear than I have
I understand. But do you understand that your writing was far from clear? It so often jumped from one thing to the next with, seemingly, no connection.
And we can dance around the subject for days and days and still that is the truth whether you or any of the guys here want to jump up and down and say NO it’s not like that!!
So, now you are lumping me with the other guys?
But there comes a point when two people have to agree to disagree and in my mind, that time as come!
Most of my time here was not disagreeing with you but trying to get a better understanding of what you had to say. I was genuinely interested.
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Sorry U.L. Like I said, I’m not quite myself at the moment, not that I’m so uber-coherent the rest of the time. Here’s an amusing video for the dudes and ladies: FELLATIO:
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/273793
I understand you’re a “good guy” and not like many of the cads who visit this site. I will comment on this, though I think we are overall in agreement. If you read the enneagram stuff, you’ll realize that my type is prone to be confrontational. I try not to be, but you know how it is. Changing ones life long patterns is difficult at best. The ‘problem’ is, I enjoy being provocative.
“I was comparing what guys talk about here, Game, and what I thought you were talking about, Tricking or Forcing a man into providing resources.”
Well, if I might be allowed to say so, there are many ways to trick another person. Some are very subtle, and don’t think “game” the way many guys use “game” is not often a bunch of games.
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U.L. By sperm donor I meant that a woman will use a man to conceive a child and in effect he is then being used by her as nothing other than a “sperm donor”; the same way a man will use a woman as nothing more than a sperm receptacle. Both scenarios are highly insulting to a (in MY opinion) healthy individual.
It is also quite true as you state that the majority of people are not clear about what they want, because they are AFRAID it will spoil their chances with another person. If you listen to the “In Sync with the Opposite Sex” CDs, you will understand (not that you don’t) how profoundly stupid this is, and you will begin to (perhaps, not that you aren’t already) be more clear about your own intentions (not that you aren’t).
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I try not to be, but you know how it is.
Excuses, excuses. I thought that you were against “Self Limiting” thought.
Well, if I might be allowed to say so, there are many ways to trick another person. Some are very subtle, and don’t think “game” the way many guys use “game” is not often a bunch of games.
I didn’t follow the second sentence, but, as to the first, Game implies that you should NEVER be tricking the girl.
Actually, AFAIK, there is one guy “in the community” who does seem to rely on certain kind of Hypnotic techniques…and he is roundly hated and mocked.
He is considered to not have “Real Game”.
It is also quite true as you state that the majority of people are not clear about what they want…
Well, I dont think that I said that. What I was saying that Guys with Game are to be “clear” about what they want, because, that is part of what Game is.
But, if I understood your scenario, Girls will look to Trap or Trick or Deceive Guys into providing resources.
Not that all Girls do that, or even a majority, just the Girls in your, :What if Girls were to Game Guys” scenario.
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“Excuses, excuses. I thought that you were against “Self Limiting” thought.”
Which makes me a hypocrite? I don’t deny it. One can be against something without being in perfect compliance. Agreed?
Game implies you should never be tricking a girl? Then why are so many girls afraid of game? Why do they often feel used, betrayed, and “had” when “gamed”? Why have so many seen “The Pickup Artist” and use the information as defense AGAINST being gamed? Are they being unnecessarily paranoid in your opinion?
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sara, you’re killing the fun and vibrancy of my comment threads. let’s try to keep the entertainment value high, people.
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“Excuses, excuses. I thought that you were against “Self Limiting” thought.”
Which makes me a hypocrite? I don’t deny it. One can be against something without being in perfect compliance. Agreed?
Haha, Fair enough.
Game implies you should never be tricking a girl? Then why are so many girls afraid of game? Why do they often feel used, betrayed, and “had” when “gamed”? Why have so many seen “The Pickup Artist” and use the information as defense AGAINST being gamed? Are they being unnecessarily paranoid in your opinion?
Well, I can’t speak about the TV show, I have never seen it.
But, why are so many girls afraid? That is an interesting question. Some have theorized that Girls don’t like the idea that non-Alphas learn how to be Alpha, and, therefore, the girls feel like they are being deceived. In other words, if some guy was a Beta, then he should act like a Beta.
Another theory is that the tables have turned. In the past, it was for Guys to approach Girls, buy them drinks, make them laugh and compete with other Guys for there attention. And, with Game, Alphas don’t do that.
An Alpha does not need to buy her anything, his Dominance will shine through (and all that).
Well, if that is the case, then Guys and Girls are either on equal ground with neither competing for the other, or, possibly, the Girls will now compete for the Guys’ affection.
Also, with either theory, Guys will be able to get a lot more sex from a lot more Girls. And this is what they want. And, with that, they will be much less interested in getting married and having children.
If either theory is correct, I think that the Girls see a major loss of power. And they are not happy about it.
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79 roissy,
Perhaps it is your sacred image I am killing? I don’t hear anyone else here complaining.
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80 U.L.
You are right in your analysis.
“If either theory is correct, I think that the Girls see a major loss of power. And they are not happy about it.”
Do you believe power is what they really want in their heart of hearts? Marriage, children, family, love is never about power of one human being over another. Power is such a poor substitute for love and happiness. Do you not find the scenario you paint quite dismal? It is literally a war between the sexes; one I do not personally engage in, besides these postings.
“….the Girls will now compete for the Guys’ affection.” I find this very perverse, but doubt I could explain why.
BTW, Roissy is having a hard time with this commentary, or should I say my side of it. In his opinion, I am being too serious, confrontational, bitchy, critical and he is getting tweaked.
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U.L. I am so spaced out from this detox, I actually posted a comment on one of roissy’s old posts thinking it was current!
Check it out! It’s a fun one.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/06/12/a-quick-and-dirty-dating-guide-to-foreign-girls/
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Do you believe power is what they really want in their heart of hearts? Marriage, children, family, love is never about power of one human being over another. Power is such a poor substitute for love and happiness.
Marriage and children and family and love are not about power. Getting them is.
“Power” is probably not the perfect word. But, girls, in general, want to attract Men. And they want to attract Real Men.
Talk to any girl that was obese throughout her youth and her most heart-breaking stories will always have something to do with (not) attracting guys. Either the Guys did not talk to her…did not notice her…only liked her as a friend…or, she couldn’t really go shopping with her girlfiends for clothes…whatever.
So, the “power” to attract men..the “ability” to attract men..whatever, I ain’t no good wit’ words and stuff.
Do you not find the scenario you paint quite dismal? It is literally a war between the sexes;
It can be dismal. And, as of late, it seems like a “war between the sexes.” But it does not have to be.
From my understanding of history, every culture had a way for young people to interact so that they could get married and have children. Western culture was no different. Heck, all of Janes Austens novels seem to be focused on that very subject.
Since the 60’s and 70’s though, that has broken down. It was deemed to restrictive or old-fashioned and women needed to be liberated from those old conservative chains.
We broke down the old with building anything new. Now, we have this: Modern Dating Culture.
BTW, Roissy is having a hard time with this commentary, or should I say my side of it. In his opinion, I am being too serious, confrontational, bitchy, critical and he is getting tweaked.
Hey, this is his backyard. Also, Candy, whenever you initially comment on one of his postings, you simply look to “hate”.
Others will disagree with him, you look spew your obvious hatred of the guy.
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84:
“Others will disagree with him, you look spew your obvious hatred of the guy.”
It’s totally true. I’m a purist. Pure love, pure hate, pure joy, pure frustration. If you look at children (though I don’t claim to emulate them) they are total in their expression. They can be 100% hateful and then the next minute 100% loving. If you remind them that they were so upset only moments before, they won’t even remember it! I have a particular soft spot for children and animals and sometimes a particular hard spot for adults I’m afraid. Believe it or not I feel very protective of my gender and wish more men would be. I see too much exploitation and in my old-fashioned mind, women, children and animals should be respected just BECAUSE. But I understand why women are not respected, often because they don’t respect themselves.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Do you know what your “love” looks like? Do you have an image that spells it out for you? This is my favorite celebrity couple. I have this picture on my desk top. It so inspires me to keep my standards high.
http://www.people.com/people/keith_urban/photos/0,,20005783_20402969,00.html
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Roissy, you can learn 100 times more from your enemies than from your friends. I have exactly one enemy and have learned more from him than any other person in my life. In fact more than all of them combined! But I had to drop my ego to get the lessons and that was the hardest part of all. Still…the ego is not gone, but don’t want it to be either. Have a good one.
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Believe it or not I feel very protective of my gender and wish more men would be.
I agree. Men should be more protective of their own gender.
Oh, you meant, oh, nevermind.
The last time we saw a full generation of men very protective of women was…the 1950’s. Nowadays, that is the MOST reviled period in American History and I am assuming that you do not want to go back to it.
And, about the picture, it is easy to look at beautiful celebrities “in love” and fantasize. This is extremely common for girls.
Try a picture of a slightly unattractive couple of modest means with well behaved children. Now, that is a picture that I could get behind.
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87 You’re cute! I mean about the slightly unattractive couple of modest means with well behaved children. There is a time and place for realism as well of course. I’ve seen Keith Urban live twice and was VERY much taken with his performance and “presence”. I am not prone to celebrity worship at all, actually, and did not find him sexually appealing, but he does have an amazing persona. I’ve always liked Nicole Kidman and consider her a more down to earth person than many celebrities. He was in rehab four months after they were married, which obviously put a huge stress on their marrige, but they made it through. Their love has been tested by harsh reality and it prevailed.
And no, I don’t want to go back to the 50’s. Probably further back would be better! Seriously, I’m much more future oriented, except where love is concerned? Don’t know. But I see Keith and Nicole as true EQUALS in love; something that would probably have not occurred in the 50’s mainly because women were dependent on men for financial support.
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I’ve always liked Nicole Kidman and consider her a more down to earth person than many celebrities.
She married a Manic Scientologist. Got engaged to a different man BEFORE she divorced her husband. Dated known-Playboy Lenny Kravitz (that guy got more ass than a toilet seat) and then settled for an Alcoholic Musician (a man who dated at least one super-model).
Oh, and she is Catholic. Oh, wait, I mean she converted to Scientology. Oh, no, nevermind, she is back to Catholicism.
She is almost as down to earth as that couple I mentioned.
But, I can see why you see so much in Keith Urban. Talk about a High Status Male.
Candy, I am telling you, I have learned so much in the last few months.
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“I have learned so much in the last few months.”
That’s awesome! I beg to differ on your viewpoint of NIcole Kidman. She’s had some fucked up experiences for sure. The worst of which was marrying Tom Cruise. Still, she’s kept her dignity in my opinion and protected her children from the media circus that could have surrounded her divorce. She was deeply in love with Tom; idiot though he is. Women have an uncanny ability to love unconditionally; is the only explanation I can give for that. Must say I’m “guilty” of that.
You can label Keith whatever you want, but the fact is they are both admittedly imperfect human beings living life and still loving in spite of all the shit! There are too many gorgeous pics of those two (for me) to doubt it. Still, you are welcome to your (false) opinion. Hahahaha. No, really.
BTW I don’t think she ever converted to Scientology which is why they broke up. Could be wrong on that.
If you want to hear fucked up and bad choices I’ll tell you my life story. LOL
BUT, I am more excited than ever about the future. The worst is when people do not ever learn, and become old and bitter. I am never going to get old.
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She’s had some fucked up experiences for sure. The worst of which was marrying Tom Cruise.
Wait, was than an experience she had, or a choice she made? I am all for holding everyone, including myself, responsible for their actions. She decided to marry a devout Scientoligist and convert to Scientology herself.
She was deeply in love with Tom;
How could you possibly know that?
…idiot though he is.
He is an idiot? What does that make her? How about this, in their marriage, you hold them equally responsible. Esp. in this case. We now know that when left to his own devices, he can’t keep in the crazy. He loves to spread that gospel.
And I really doubt that he is an idiot. Crazy? Sure Idiot? No way.
Women have an uncanny ability to love unconditionally; is the only explanation I can give for that.
Also, her career skyrocketed after marrying the biggest movie star in the world (at the time).
… and still loving in spite of all the shit!
How do you know that? And, I think you meant to say, “in spite of all of their actions!”
Let’s treat adults like adults.
There are too many gorgeous pics of those two (for me) to doubt it.
Yes, gorgeous pictures, and that is why you care so much. I am scratching my brain to think of an unattractive couple that girls care so much about.
BTW I don’t think she ever converted to Scientology which is why they broke up.
I dont keep up on Celebrity Gossip, I just checked Wikipedia.
The worst is when people do not ever learn, and become old and bitter. I am never going to get old.
I have every intention of getting old. I have no intention of getting bitter. That is why I am learning to improve my Game.
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“Wait, was than an experience she had, or a choice she made?”
Both.
“How could you possibly know that?”
I believe what she said in interviews on that subject.
“He is an idiot? What does that make her? ”
Well, they’re divorced and she’s married to Keith Urban; a very high status male! She can’t be too stupid.
“her career skyrocketed after marrying the biggest movie star in the world.”
So, what? You’re implying she only married for the career advantage?
“How do you know that?”
A picture is worth a thousand words. Five pictures are worth 5,000 words. Plus, I’m a bit of a body language expert, so I know the difference between phony and real given enough pictures to analyze.
Good night!
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I just gotta add this. One thing that makes Keith a “high status male” is that he shamelessly and unapologetically loves, adores, and appreciates his woman, regardless of what you or anyone else says about her. And regardless of the so-called mistakes of her past. He’s courageous in love as well as other areas of his life. Have you heard his music?
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“Wait, was than an experience she had, or a choice she made?”
Both.
OK, good. So she chose to marry a manic Scientologist, adopt two children with him, get pregnant by him right before she divorced and, oh yeah, was engaged to another un-named man while she was still married to this, what did you call him, idiot.
I believe what she said in interviews on that subject.
What do you believe about the things that she won’t talk about:
– Converting to Scientology
– Converting back to Catholicism
– Her secret engagement to another man WHILE she was married.
Also, for a down-to-earth girl, she sure seems dis-interested in down-to-earth guys: 1.) Biggest Movie Star in the World, 2.) Rock and Roller Lenny Kravitz and 3.) Alcoholic Musician
Personally, I have known some down-to-earth girls and they never seemed to go fo guys like that.
“her career skyrocketed after marrying the biggest movie star in the world.”
So, what? You’re implying she only married for the career advantage?
If you are going to believe some Hollywood actress, then I am going to look at their actions. You take the Girl Approach, I’ll take the Guy approach.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Five pictures are worth 5,000 words.
A (pretty) picture is worth a thousand words. Five (pretty) pictures are worth 5,000 words.
Again, I advise you to become infatuated with an unattractive couple with well-behaved kids.
One thing that makes Keith a “high status male” is that he shamelessly and unapologetically loves, adores, and appreciates his woman, regardless of what you or anyone else says about her.
I repeat, “How can you possibly know that”. Let me put it another way. What were Nicole and Tom saying, in interviews, say, 6 months before they seperated. Or, what were they saying as their marriage fell apart. Actually, I know one thing that she said, “I’m pregnant!”.
And, Candy, I know you said that you are not into Celebrity Culture, and I am sure that you are not obsessed with Celebrities, but this all so typical.
I know quite a few people who truly do not care one iota about a single celebrity. There name: John, Mike, Kevin, Carl, etc.
I know quite a few people who claim to not care about celebrities and they still focus at least some of their attention on at least one celebrity. Their names: Lisa, Alison, Sara, Amy, etc.
Just sayin’.
p.s. Do I think that she married him for the money or possible exposure? I have no idea. But, then, the last time I read about a Hollywood actress that I could really respect, her name was Joanne Woodward.
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Joanne Woodward and Paul Newman; great couple. Everyday I look for happy couples and especially find delight in older happy looking couples. Saw one on the pier last night. I’m always looking to be inspired by love. We can choose to be inspired by whatever we want. The important thing (to me anyway) is to be inspired. So, you are taking the more analytical or precise (if you will) guy view? That’s great. I understand that.
Keith and Nicole inspire me, whether there are chinks in their armor or not. If you don’t mind I think I’ll just continue to let them! People don’t have to be perfect. I am TOO far from perfect to hold that as my standard. With MY past, I could not run for dog catcher! So, choosing a couple with negative history is perfect for me. I could no more aspire to a Paul Newman/Joanne Woodward relationship than fly at this point in time. Being “right” about exactly what inspires me is not nearly as important as being inspired and happy in general. Have you ever met a person who placed huge amounts of value on being right, who was also joyful and happy a good deal of the time?
My younger brother is the most “right” person, you’ll ever meet in your life, find and one of the most miserable human beings I’ve ever known. He’s a complete pain in the ass. I am not implying you’re a perfectionist. Pardon the rambling, I am completely exhausted from lack of sleep.
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This is the way I’m understanding game the way roissy uses it: Finding strategies to get around a woman’s/girl’s resistance to having sex. As opposed to understanding why women are resistant and respecting them for it.
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Keith and Nicole inspire me, whether there are chinks in their armor or not. If you don’t mind I think I’ll just continue to let them!
Of course you will. She is an attractive woman who spends her time with High Status Males. And, you are a girl. It is a perfect fit.
Have you ever met a person who placed huge amounts of value on being right, who was also joyful and happy a good deal of the time?
Nobody wants to be wrong, and most never think that they are. Happiness doesn’t come from “letting go”, it comes from satisfaction.
It is a fascinating subject, but one that will go far away from here. But, to answer your question: Yes. Albert Einstein. He was absolutely obsessed with being right and, by all acounts, and thoughout both his childhood and adult years, he was very happy.
Granted, he had no interest in monogamy, was unfaithful to both his wives, was a poor father and had sex with many younger women…many of whom were his students.
Again, I point you to that unattractive couple with well behaved kids. Their story is one of Society-Building.
Alpha-Chasing is one of Culture-Death.
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Finding strategies to get around a woman’s/girl’s resistance to having sex. As opposed to understanding why women are resistant and respecting them for it.
If girls were always surrounded by guys who “respected” their sexual innocence at all times, no one would have children.
But, of course, girls want sex. Not in the manner and quantity that guys do (I am averaging here), but they do want it.
If guys were to not pursue sex, the Human Race would die off.
Every guy that is interested in sex seeks strategies for getting “in her pants”. I am talking about Nice Guys, Beta Boys, Alphas and every one else.
Girls, in general, want to be pursued. What was it that you said earlier, “Candy, how often to you go up to a guy, buy him a drink and tell him that you think he is hot?”, “Never. I don’t approach, I am the approached” (paraphrasing).
So, we pursue, we strategize, we think, we talk (“Dude, what should I say to her?”, “What, what, I should play it cool?”, “No, no be direct, go right up to her and..”, etc), we do all sorts of things.
Guys like Roissy, they are successful. They are interested in sex (he is a guy) and they pursue it. And if I understand Game, they pursue it with honesty. In fact, it seems like the outright “sexual” nature of the gamer is his best asset. He makes no bones about what he wants.
And, I think that there is a misunderstanding here, I think that Roissy does respect at least one thing: that they are interested in being pursued, sexually, by a High Status Male.
Are these Guys, these Alphas, these Assh*les, as interested in her vulnerabilities, doubts and dreams as they are in her sex? NO WAY!
THEY ARE GUYS!
We are guys. You are talking to the King of the Nice Guys. I will take on almost anyone for that title. And let me tell you, my sexual interests and appetite are intense.
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97
“Nobody wants to be wrong.”
You need to definitely exclude me from that statement! Right and wrong are quite often highly subjective terms, and I’m smart enough to realize that.
Albert Einstein “He was absolutely obsessed with being right.” Was he obsessed with being right in his field, or being right and making others wrong? He was also a great humanitarian who had wisdom well beyond what his analytical mind could conjure. He had wisdom that could never be proven, but people felt the truth of it. They probably were more open to receiving his truth on broader subjects of humanity though, BECAUSE of his intellectual ability. Such is the Western mind. We are much more science oriented in general.
“I think that Roissy does respect at least one thing: that they are interested in being pursued, sexually, by a High Status Male.”
#1 I obviously do not consider roissy a high status male. Shudder. And this so called respect is not respect at all, when he never has to really put himself in her shoes and is in fact not even trying except on the most shallow level. Women are born connectors and believe me, the healthy ones want more than dick/pussy connection.
And you make a huge assumption that respect = no sex. I’m talking about awareness. If anything is done with awareness, it’s not wrong, or rather harmful in my opinion. Of course women need to be aware as well as men. Nothing like a little wisdom, knowledge, and compassion to make the day go better. I love sex as much or more than the next person. I just want to have sex with love, compassion, awareness, and respect on both sides if you don’t mind. LOL
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You know it’s hard to convey tons of information in a blog and easy for anyone to extrapolate another’s viewpoint and I’m just as guilty of it of course.
When it comes to sex, if two people want to hook up just for sex, what do I care? The problem women have (and I have NO doubt men have noticed this) is that a “hook up” often turns into major bonding on their part. Most women are so ignorant of their own biology they think somehow they can fuck like men and remain in control of the situation. My male friend recently did a hook up and was very up front with her about what he was looking for–just sex. She went for it and immediately got very attached to him. She started stalking him after one good fuck! She was crying saying “you hurt me.” She was heartbroken! This may seem bizarre, but let me tell you it is not. It’s just female biology. So, naturally he got all miffed and upset because she was harrasing him and he started telling her she was crazy which only made it worse. Women are equal but not the same as men. Not by a very long shot.
So, can you respect female biology? Can you respect that a woman might/will get very attached to you on a hookup and possibly experience a lot of emotional pain? Are you O.K. with that? Would you warn her against a hookup, knowing she might suffer for it? Would you respect her biology even if she were ignorant of it herself, or would you think she was asking for it? Can a man even deal with that type of uber-quick attachment after sex regardless of his intentions; long or short term? It’s ordinarily a very messy situation (for women) usually when women give in too soon, before trust has been established.
I think it has to do with female sexually energy being more bonding/love oriented than men’s. Taking lower sexual energy and transforming it to love and higher consciousness is what will make this Earth a heaven. Keeping that sexual energy below the waist? Well, look around.
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Was he obsessed with being right in his field, or being right and making others wrong?
They go hand in hand. He idolized Isaac Newton AND proved him wrong.
He wanted to understand the universe. He pursued knowledge. He looked for actual results. He proved himself right and every other person with a theory wrong.
Did he set out as a boy to prove a specific person wrong? No.
Did he encounter people with poor theories along the way? Yes.
Did he hate (most of) them for it? No.
Did they aregue their theory and he argue his? Yes.
Did he want to confirm that he was (and, by extension, prove them wrong)? Yes
He had wisdom that could never be proven, but people felt the truth of it.
What on earth are you talking about?
They probably were more open to receiving his truth on broader subjects of humanity though, BECAUSE of his intellectual ability.
Huh? Who is the “they” in that sentence?
Such is the Western mind. We are much more science oriented in general.
Thank God. Western Civilization is one of the greatest things in the history of the world.
I am absolutely positive that you can find fault with it. Good for anyone that can. But, we must compare it to everything else that exists and came before it. It WAS truly amazing. Unfortunately, it has been falling apart. That perverted religion known as Political Correctness has won so many battles and will likely destroy so much more. It is a shame.
I obviously do not consider roissy a high status male.
There are over 3 billion women in this world. The idea that all of them will go for a particular “Alpha” is ridiculous. But, let me as you this:
Imagine 2 parallel Universes, 1.) where Roissy (and guys like him) is shown to be completely honest. That is, if he says that he slept with this girl…if he says he dated that girl…if he says that Game does not work on Girls with Low Self-Esteem but instead with Girls who are confident and have (normal? high?) Self-Esteem…if he says that Game works on Smart Girls much better than Dumb Girls…if he says anything about his personal life, then it is absolutely true.
What would you think of him?
And, 2.) Roissy is full of it. A (near) complete liar. His life has been such a mess, he hates himself so much that he starts creating this elaborate fantasy-life where he is the Master Game Player. He doesn’t sleep with these Girls. He rarely spends much time with anyone. He is a loser.
What would you think of him?
And this so called respect is not respect at all, when he never has to really put himself in her shoes and is in fact not even trying except on the most shallow level.
I can tell you that throughout my whole young life, I was always thinking of what the other person wanted and felt. I was always so aware. It can easily, very easily, enable you to misunderstand your own feelings and needs.
Or, worse, simply deny what you want because you are aware that it may not be perfect for the other. In essence, your ability to “respect” the other prevents you from respecting yourself.
Selflessness is an amazing thing, unless the giver is left unsatisfied. Then it is just sad and, possibly, pathetic.
(I am in no way looking for sympathy, but, if we are going to be real, then I am going to be real.)
except on the most shallow level
Not shallow, primal. Basic. We are absolutely driven to have sex. Study after study shows it. The amount that Young Men think about Sex is almost unbelievable. I think it is almost impossible for a Girl to understand the power and effect that Female Sexuality has on a Man. (Just like it is damn near impossible for Men to understand certain things about Women. If you ain’t livin’ it, you ain’t got it.)
Roissy, and guys like him, pursue their basic needs/desires unashamed.
Women are born connectors and believe me, the healthy ones want more than dick/pussy connection.
Good for them. Really. They should pursue it. (That is not sarcastic, I mean it).
And you make a huge assumption that respect = no sex.
I don’t need to assume; I lived it. I am not saying that every Respectful Nice Guy will die a virgin. But when he respects that girl he has been talking to…when he is talking to her about everything that she feels and thinks. Everything she dreams about, all her fears. And then sees her at the Frat party goin upstairs with the Baseball Player…his heart will sink like never before. He will hate her, hate him and hate himself.
And he will, on some level, hate women. She will be sullied in his mind; a slut. A WHORE (I am trying to communicate the drama). And he will go looking for that pure angel. And anything less than pure will set him off. (You have slept with HOW MANY GUYS?!?!)
Simply, he never respected her want/need for (sexual) attention.
Guys like Roissy, guys who play the Game are much more honest than that Nice Guy. The girl is well aware of what he wants.
So, you don’t like that. Well, do something about it. If a Man is getting wild sex from lots of different Hot Girls, and assuming that he has some other basic things like food and shelter, well, he is going to be prety damn satisfied.
And if more guys improve their Game, well, like we covered before, the tables have likely turned.
I’m talking about awareness. If anything is done with awareness, it’s not wrong, or rather harmful in my opinion.
Me too. I am much more aware of what I want. And I will pursue it without shame. I am glad you consent.
I just want to have sex with love, compassion, awareness, and respect on both sides if you don’t mind.
Hey, don’t check with me. Check with the guy you are sleeping with.
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The problem women have (and I have NO doubt men have noticed this) is that a “hook up” often turns into major bonding on their part. Most women are so ignorant of their own biology they think somehow they can fuck like men and remain in control of the situation.
Right on, sister. You do realize that this is a NEW problem. Back in the Bad Old Days, everyone new the score…then, the Social Revolution happened and the new religion (Political Correctness) was foisted on everyone.
So, can you respect female biology? Can you respect that a woman might/will get very attached to you on a hookup and possibly experience a lot of emotional pain? Are you O.K. with that?
I have every intention of being aware of our Biology as I expect them to be. I never feel bad for Med Students that have to study 14 hours a day, 6 days a week with the occasional all-nighter. They knew what they were getting into, and good for them (really).
Similarly, I never feel bad for any Guy or Girl in any hook-up.
Would you warn her against a hookup, knowing she might suffer for it? Would you respect her biology even if she were ignorant of it herself, or would you think she was asking for it?
Let me say this: if she were my sister and I saw her about to hook-up with some guy, I would grab her by the shoulders (Chris Rock style), look her right in the eye and say, “Are you fucking stupid?!?! I hope all you wanted was a good fucking because that is all you are going to get.”
Would you warn her against a hookup, knowing she might suffer for it? Would you respect her biology even if she were ignorant of it herself, or would you think she was asking for it? Can a man even deal with that type of uber-quick attachment after sex regardless of his intentions; long or short term? It’s ordinarily a very messy situation (for women) usually when women give in too soon, before trust has been established.
You know what Candy, I am going to give another answer that is more revealing. And I am going to speak to you in the way that a Man talks to another Man (which means it will get brutal. I will do this just once. I imagine that you do not care for the tone or language):
I am fucking sick of being the Nice Guy. It has gotten me nowhere. When I told you that I have no intention of being old and bitter, I meant it. When will they (these girls you are talking about) start thing about how I feel?
It’s my fucking fault that they are too stupid to exist in this world. WAKE UP! The guys that get all the chicks, the guys that you always end up with, what the fuck were you thinking? You see the Nice Guys, you see the Math Majors, the Chess players, the Beta Boys and you walk right on past.
“I just want to be your friend.” FUCK YOU!
If you had the smallest understanding of how I feel, of how I guy feels, you would never say that to me. But you don’t. And even after you learn how I feel, you still don’t care. You can’t truly care about how a Guy feels because you are too focused on how you, and other girls, feel. That is why, you, my “friend”, will support and defend girls you have never even met when you think that there is one chance my needs and desires will conflict with theirs. I thought that you were supposed to be my friend?!?!
You can see that I am alone and dissatisfied. And you know that I am attracted to you and that I want it to be romantic. Well, not romantic. I want to fuck your brains out! But, I am trying to gentle about it. You know, a gentleman.
But you just smile and hint and tease. Anything to keep me around. Because it is Biology. A girl alone is vulnerable. Just see any girl that has to spend one night alone in a house. She goes nuts. And she prefers to have Men around. I mean, why not. What the fuck is some chick going to do when some bad shit starts happening.
So, you want me as your friend. And I am. I walk you to your car at night. I give you foot-rubs when you are tired. Fuck, I probably even pay for your meals every now and then. God, what a fucking loser.
But, you know what, it is my own fucking fault. I want to blame someone else. Something else. But I can’t. Because everybody wants you, needs you, to act like a Man.
Guys want you to act like a Man and Girls want you to act like a Man.
“I want a REAL man!” Done. You got it.
A Man stand up for himself. No whining, no complaining. You gotta problem, then “DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!”.
So, I am. I told you before. If I gave off the impression that I wanted sympathy, then I failed.
I won’t need anybody, including myself, to feel sorry for me when MY NEEDS are being met. When I am satisfied.
I plan on being completely honest.
Is it possible that some girl has deluded herself into thinking that she can live like a guy and love like a guy. That is her fucking fault. You know what, maybe it isn’t her fault, maybe she was deceived by Sex and the City and Cosmo. Maybe her Womyn’s Studies professor told her that she should satisfy her sexual desires no differently than a man would.
I have no idea. I don’t care. Not anymore.
When the world starts focusing on my want and my needs I will start focusing on theirs. Until then, I will need to advocate for myself.
I didn’t create this atmosphere. I didn’t create this Game that men and women play. And I never wanted to play.
But, I don’t have much of a choice. It is either this or nothing.
So, if I am going to play, you better fucking believe that their is no way I will lose.
I will not deceive. I will not lie. I will not cheat.
The best never need to.
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Normally I would never talk like that to a girl; sweet things that they are. But you and I have been talking about this for a while and I wanted to make sure that you got the full “feel”.
Like I said, I have no interest in deceiving anyone.
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“I have no interest in deceiving anyone.”
Well, that is good! All any of us can do is express ourselves to the best of our ability, with awareness of the fact that we are dealing with wounded, emotional, sensitive humans on both sides of the equation. If you hear the “In Sync” CDs it will absolutely warm your heart to hear a woman speaking on behalf of men who feel 100% as you do. You may not agree with 100% of what she says (how can you buy 100% of what ANYONE says) but she will have you laughing and give you hope that it CAN get better for YOU. The CDs were recorded at a workshop with men and women present and there are panels to highlight just how astoundingly OPPOSITE we are! If you can’t laugh about it, you’ll simply blow your brains out. I wanted to do just that more than a few times, except women usually pick gentler methods. 😀
Thankfully, there are people who know more on the subject than I do, and who have more success (Though, nothing is perfect, granted.) that can help us FEEL better. Because more than being right is to simply FEEL GOOD or better as the case may be, in this amazing life that we’re living.
I read in my Osho book that man and woman are not two things. There is man/woman, hot/cold, up/down, left/right, love/hate. I world with only men, would not contain men! Women define men and vice versa. This is elementary, I know, but the ramifications are deep. So, it’s no wonder we have such a drive to “complete” ourselves with a mate. Yet, the paradox is, if you don’t feel complete without one, you are a weak link in the chain of your relationship. It’s why I’m alone and not lonely. It is possible. I cannot relate at all to a woman who goes nuts by herself. I love being alone and I love being with other people too.
I hope you feel better venting. I’m all for it. If you don’t vent occasionally your life will be a junkyard if I might quote the beloved Osho. You ought to check him out. He tells some fabulous dirty jokes and is ALL for sexual expression in a healthy open way.
Will write more later when I have time. Am off to the doctor to find out if I have to get my fuckin’ mercury levels tested again. Detox shite. It’s a pain, but worth it…
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Well, that is good! All any of us can do is express ourselves to the best of our ability, with awareness of the fact that we are dealing with wounded, emotional, sensitive humans on both sides of the equation.
From what I can tell, you seem only interested in wounded girls, not wounded guys.
You may not agree with 100% of what she says (how can you buy 100% of what ANYONE says) but she will have you laughing and give you hope that it CAN get better for YOU.
Thanks, but I already have laughter and hope. What I am in need of is skill. That is what I am improving.
Because more than being right is to simply FEEL GOOD or better as the case may be, in this amazing life that we’re living.
Yes, I am very focused on my feelings nowadays. That is very important to me.
I cannot relate at all to a woman who goes nuts by herself.
That is simply Evo-Bio comin’ at ya. Think of a man, walking down some alley at night and think about what he would be thinking/feeling.
Now, picture a girl walking down some Alley at night, by herself…what would she be thinking/feeling.
Girls do not like to be alone. It is instinct. And it is a good instinct. Guys like to be in packs AND we like to be alone. We do not need that kind of “Oh Shit! I am Vulnerable!” instinct.
This is why most Girls feel more comfortable living in an Apartment building, with a roommate, in a large city instead of a Suburban Detached Home alone with no one. The suburb could have a much lower crime rate and she will still feel safer “in numbers”.
Society, for at least 30 years now, has been telling girls that they don’t “need a man”. Many have tried to follow that teaching. It has been a miserable failure for them. The girls who realize early on that they can not end up alone and look to do something about I think are best off. She doesn’t need to be attached at all times, but she needs to be aware of her own biology.
I hope you feel better venting.
I wasn’t really venting. I was being very honest. I meant every word. Sure, I got worked up, but that is just the Testosterone working for me.
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Don’t discount the “In Sync” CDs too soon. You will get VERY practical, usable information in regards to the opposite sex. Because of listening to THOSE CDs my friend is engaged to a man she never would have considered before. She is the one who is engaged to a man who is 13 years younger than her. If not for those CDs she would never have given him a second look. He’s a bit goofy and not very alpha ACTING, but he is an alpha in a truer sense of the word. (Though I find the term alpha a bit tiresome at times.)
She learned from those CDs to put her HEART before her INSTINCTS, which is exactly what the clueless girls are not doing who are banging the neanderthal jocks upstairs, while you sit seething with hatred. She had to give this guy a second and third look and now can’t take her eyes off him. He is the best thing that’s ever happened to her. And they have great sex too. This is after 14 years chasing after an emotionally distant man who never would step up to the plate.
If it makes you feel better, I am not looking for man that women are “competing” for that do nothing but get their hormones spiking in record time. It’s the route to hell and wretchedness! I’m looking for a particular quality, a “recognition” that we both feel at a deeper level. This will probably come from a man who does not fit the “profile” of tall, dark, and handsome which describes my previous nightmare to a “T”.
You say I’m only interested in wounded girls. Not true at all, though I can understand why you would think that. Believe it or not, I am not a man hater by any means and when women lump men into one unfortunate category, I am always the first one to disagree. Plus I hate feminists even more than players! I don’t actually hate players outright except for the venting I do here. I just avoid them like the plague.
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I’ll be honest with you, regardless if this gives me greater or lesser credibility. I am an “older” single woman and have been married twice. My first husband had an IQ of 154 and was a computer software developer. My second husband was also a computer programmer and highly intelligent. Have always been attracted to intelligent men. I’m on excellent terms with my second husband and have no contact with the first. Of course the marriages did not work out for many reasons which I will spare you. With the Italian nightmare I go on about ad nauseam, I was thinking maybe intelligence was not so important considering my two failed marriages and I was wrong. Only a different kind of intelligence is needed on MINE and THEIR part. But in the final analysis I realize it’s not about them at all, but about me and who I am that determines who I attract.
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“Society, for at least 30 years now, has been telling girls that they don’t “need a man”. ”
It’s worse than that. It’s “You don’t need a man, but why aren’t you married.” We need to stop listening to “society” and listen to our hearts.
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Don’t discount the “In Sync” CDs too soon.
I never even mentioned them. But, I get it, you really, REALLY, like these Books and CD’s. I got it. Like I said, all in due time. Moving Homes, changing Jobs, certain things must come first.
Because of listening to THOSE CDs my friend is engaged to a man she never would have considered before. She is the one who is engaged to a man who is 13 years younger than her. If not for those CDs she would never have given him a second look.
What picky women need and shy and awkward guys need are very different things. Either way, regardless of how good the CD’s are, like I said before, they will need to get in line.
If it makes you feel better, I am not looking for man that women are “competing” for that do nothing but get their hormones spiking in record time.
Good for you. For me, I want a girl to get all “hormonal” for me.
You say I’m only interested in wounded girls.
I said that it seemed that way.
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It’s worse than that. It’s “You don’t need a man, but why aren’t you married.”
Well, the one message comes from one group (like, the Feminists) and the other message comes from a very different group (like, the Grandmothers).
We need to stop listening to “society” and listen to our hearts.
We used to have a name for people who stopped listening to society: Sociopaths. Or, to a lesser degree, a person with Anti-Social tendencies.
The problem is not listening to others, the problem is what Western Society has become.
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“We used to have a name for people who stopped listening to society: Sociopaths. Or, to a lesser degree, a person with Anti-Social tendencies.”
Well, I am neither, though I attempt to “listen to my heart”, “follow my inner guidance” , “be true to myself”, “follow my emotions”, etc. Where do you get these sweeping generalizations? The same place I do? LOL Seriously, you misunderstand my viewpoint entirely, though I can understand why. Listening to one’s heart could be the best thing for everyone, depending on how an individual defines it.
I know what I mean by that, but God only knows how you or any other person would interpret that statement. Hence the problem with semantics and verbal communication in general. First we would have to spend hours explaining our particular meaning of the word “listen” and then more hours explaining “heart” and still we may not understand each other. Hence the ridiculousness of trying to be “right” when discussing these types of topics.
So, western society has become what it is, but I think a blend of East and West would be better for both East and West. The East is spiritually rich and materially bankrupt, and the West is spiritually bankrupt and materially wealthy.
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Hormones are good. You want a woman to get all “hormonal” for you? What else? I will fill you in on a secret. Women still want men to rescue and SAVE. Save them from what you ask? FROM THEMSELVES. I’ll leave that cryptic statement as it is and when you’re done getting adjusted to your new job and residence, you will learn what that means and how to do just that.
I can tell you without any hesitation, nothing could be truer in my case. If you can do that for a woman, she will be hormonal for you, believe me. Only a man with ultra-confidence has a clue about that and you don’t need good looks to know and use that secret. It goes way beyond game and into the deepest desire of a woman.
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… though I attempt to “listen to my heart”, “follow my inner guidance” , “be true to myself”, “follow my emotions”, etc. …Listening to one’s heart could be the best thing for everyone, depending on how an individual defines it.
I know what I mean by that, but God only knows how you or any other person would interpret that statement. Hence the problem with semantics and verbal communication in general. First we would have to spend hours explaining our particular meaning of the word “listen” and then more hours explaining “heart” and still we may not understand each other. Hence the ridiculousness of trying to be “right” when discussing these types of topics.
Those sayings are so generic that it is impossible for them to be right or wrong. They are platitudes, not specific, applicable advice. Even wrong advice (specific, applicable advice) is superior to platitudes because it it can help clarify thought or spark discussion.
It is sort of like asking someone what it means to be a Humanist. 100 Humanists will give you 100 answers. None of them right, none of them wrong. The word, the title, “Humanist” is basically meaningless. Yes, an argument would then be “ridiculous”.
But ask someone what it means to be a Christian. “As long as you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you are a Christian”. Now that is a specific answer. (BTW, I am not religious…it is just an example).
Could you debate that answer. I am sure you could. It was specific and to the point. And brilliant philosophers have been debating what it means, exactly, to be a Christian. Those arguments have not been meaningless. (Well, actually, the debates usually revolve around what it means to be a “Good Christian”, but, still, you get my point.)
The East is spiritually rich and materially bankrupt, and the West is spiritually bankrupt and materially wealthy.
The West may be, now, mostly bankrupt of spirit. But that did not used to be the case. Just think back about 100 years ago. The West was wealthier than any other society in the history of the world. The Middle Class had just been invented and introduced, by Capitalism, within the last 80 years (80 years from 1908). Inventions were everywhere. Technology was advancing at an amazing pace. Transportation was seeing everything: Rail Roads, Trolleys, Street Cars, the Wright brothers, Ford Motor Co….everything. Science, Math, Physics, Chemistry.
Crime Rates were at their lowest in who knows how long. And the Middle Class was growing, not shrinking. Taxes were almost zero, at least in America. The spirit was unbelievable.
And in the last 40-50 years it has all gone to shit. We celebrate that Crime Rates went down in the 1990’s. Now, instead of being 900% higher than 1908, they are only 780% higher.
And Candy, I am not so sure that the “East” is spiritually rich. Actually, I really, really doubt it. I don’t want to start rattling off examples, I will just leave it at that.
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It goes way beyond game and into the deepest desire of a woman.
I have no problem with the idea of going beyond Game, but, I plan on getting there, to Game, first.
After all this, you still want for me to not use Game.
Do I need to explode on you again?
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“Those sayings are so generic that it is impossible for them to be right or wrong.”
There is an entire teaching on those statements. A “Science of Deliberate Creation” if you will. See http://www.abraham-hicks.com for details. I’ve been studying it for about 3 years. Amazing teaching of the highest intelligence. Ahem. In my humble opinion, of course.
Am reading a book that was written in 1937 “Think and Grow Rich” and the excitement of that era is absolutely palpable. Even though I’m not 100% into the “flavor”, “tone” of the book it is way ahead of it’s time in revealing the truth that “thoughts are things”. See http://www.abraham-hicks.com for details.
One of the biggest (probably the only) hindrance to wealth is the belief in “not enoughness”. see http://www.abraham…...
Yes, I am tiresome, but consistent. 🙂
As far as the East being spiritually rich, well this may not define it for you, but for example; in India there are no traffic lights (as I understand it) and it’s a huge free for all. Trying to drive a car/ride a bicycle/walk in a busy area is to almost take your life in your hands. I read a story where someone observed a “crash” between 2 bicycles. The two got off their bikes, bowed to each other and took off. The bow is (as you may know) “I honor and see the God within you”. Now, why is this significant? Neither felt the other was to blame. The event fell within God made laws of the universe of which they are a part. No conflict, no taking anything personally, no guilt, no animosity.
Of course, here we have a very orderly society. The laws are numerous and detailed. There is a law and rules for practically every area of human existence. If someone breaks one of those laws or rules and someone gets hurt; well, the courts are full of those cases. So we have obviously many, many more lawyers than India for example. We also have many more psychiatrists & psychologists and people on drugs for all kind of emotional and mental disorders. Why does India not have the same problems? People have time to listen to each other and they don’t IDENTIFY with their parents and blame them for everything (for one thing.) BUT they are in abject poverty.
Do you need to explode on me again? Whatever floats your boat—downstream. It may just be the very word “game” that I find so objectionable.
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^ Perhaps “mojo” works better for me.
mojo |ˈmōˌjō|
noun ( pl. -jos)
a magic charm, talisman, or spell : someone must have their mojo working over at the record company.
• magic power.
Is game and mojo synonymous?
I’m a reverse oreo; white on the outside…..
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Oh fricking christ. You guys keep saying, “You hate on Roissy but you don’t offer us any solution.” And the reason we don’t is because the solution is to grow up.
You don’t control other people. You don’t get to force others to do something that exclusively benefits you (from the comments on this board, I think it’s clear that a night with any one of these guys is but a small step up from a vibrator, and a vibrator doesn’t judge you for being a slut in the morning). You don’t spread the idea that half of the population is “lacking in reason” because they don’t want to suck your dick and then put up with you judging their looks because it is somehow biologically determined that women are good for nothign but sex and men only want the best looking women and… WHATEVER. Your whole theory is based on the idea that you should get what you want because you want it and women are just these things in the way. The best case scenario for a woman under your theory is that she is somehow fabulous enough that she can have your children (god forbid she ask you to do anything for or with the family) and stay thin (so you don’t judge her for being a fat cow now) and never ask you for anything (because that would be sucking you dry, the c—).
So no. I don’t have a plan to get you that wonderful scenario because your theory is sick. It is nothing but prejudice, dressed up as biological determinism, and used to justify your getting sex from women who don’t talk back.
Buy a doll and leave us the HELL alone in public places.
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117: dizzy8, Hear, hear sista!
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Of course you’re discussing the worst of the bunch, but most seem to aspire to or act like they have ice water running through their veins.
“And the reason we don’t is because the solution is to grow up.”
But so difficult for some, eh? Making mistakes is part of growing up, but one wonders if they ever will. I don’t gather they are putting any real effort into growing up.
“a night with any one of these guys is but a small step up from a vibrator, and a vibrator doesn’t judge you for being a slut in the morning”
Good one, though I prefer my right hand. I mean, seriously, would any man have sex with a woman if he knew that he’d be publicly insulted for it? Why would anyone subject themselves to such disrespect knowingly?
” Your whole theory is based on the idea that you should get what you want because you want it and women are just these things in the way”
….these things in the way. Yes, to a player a woman is simply a means to an end. I don’t think they would like it one bit if they were treated in the same way for money. It would creep them out completely. I’ve tried to bring up the correlation, but they don’t want to get it. They think it’s somehow different because their “need” is so much greater and immediate.
And of course they desperately “need” multiple and varied sex partners too. Well women “need” the money too sometimes, and they “need” to pop out a few babies before they get too old. Some of them will decide they “need” to do whatever they have to get their “needs” met. So what is the problem then if they use game to get their intense “needs” satisfied? I don’t see what the difference is.
BTW, not all here are players of “The Pickup Artist” variety. U.L. for one, would be unhappy to find himself in that category.
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U.L. I never responded to this, but I’ll give it a try. Brain fog, you know, but I’ll try.
“Imagine 2 parallel Universes:”
“1.) where Roissy (and guys like him) is shown to be completely honest. That is, if he says that he slept with this girl…if he says he dated that girl…if he says that Game does not work on Girls with Low Self-Esteem but instead with Girls who are confident and have (normal? high?) Self-Esteem…if he says that Game works on Smart Girls much better than Dumb Girls…if he says anything about his personal life, then it is absolutely true.”
What do I think of him? I consider myself of at least average intelligence and game does not work on me. He says game does NOT work on dumb girls, but DOES on smart ones? It’s been tried on me and failed with high status males because I see right through it. Are you saying I’m not then “smart” enough? Well, that is funny, because I was SO glad I saw through it. I want a long term loving relationship; not to be seduced. Seduction does not lead to great long term relationships contrary to the fairy tales prevalent on TV and in the movies.
Will get to Universe #2 later…
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in India there are no traffic lights (as I understand it) and it’s a huge free for all. Trying to drive a car/ride a bicycle/walk in a busy area is to almost take your life in your hands. I read a story where someone observed a “crash” between 2 bicycles. The two got off their bikes, bowed to each other and took off. The bow is (as you may know) “I honor and see the God within you”. Now, why is this significant? Neither felt the other was to blame. The event fell within God made laws of the universe of which they are a part. No conflict, no taking anything personally, no guilt, no animosity.
Candy, one of my closest firends was born and rasied in India. And I think that I can safely say that the example you gave describes very little of what life is actually like in India.
To keep it short, I will just say: the Caste system, the Untouchables (talk about a 160 million people who do not benefit from a spiritually rich culture) and enormous prejudice towards Muslims. I ain’t disrespctin’ India. I am just saying that it is a delusion that Whites (Westerners) create for themselves. Most Indians see India for what it is.
Of course, here we have a very orderly society.
We used to. During the 1960s Crime Rates (and Violent Crime Rates) rose to unprecedent proportions. Whole cities, like Detroit and Camden, became little better than Demilitarized Zones. Whole towns and School Districts are seen as unfit for “normal” parents to raise their kids. Children are often forbidden from playing outside with out constant supervision (God, I used to ride my bike everywhere). Some people get to exist in an orderly society, some don’t.
Why does India not have the same problems?
India’s problems are far worse. Just ask any of those 160 million. Just go to Mumbai or Calcutta. Take off the Rose-Colored glasses and take a hard look at how India really is. Again, I am not hatin’. I love my friend and he certianly does not hate India, but he doesn’t delude himself either.
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Oh fricking christ. You guys keep saying, “You hate on Roissy but you don’t offer us any solution.” And the reason we don’t is because the solution is to grow up.
That is exactly what I am doing. Growing up.
You don’t control other people.
Who the hell said I wanted to?
You don’t get to force others to do something that exclusively benefits you
When did I ever say that I wanted to control anyone? Has anyone on this blog ever said that? Well, either way, I haven’t.
You don’t spread the idea that half of the population is “lacking in reason” because they don’t want to suck your dick
“lacking in reason”: Where is this coming from? Who are you quoting?
Your whole theory is based on the idea that you should get what you want because you want it and women are just these things in the way.
Women are things in the way? When did I ever say this? Where are you getting this from? But, you were sorta close on one thing. I am going to pursue my needs.
The best case scenario for a woman under your theory is that she is somehow fabulous enough that she can have your children
What the fuck are you talking about?
god forbid she ask you to do anything for or with the family
Huh?
…and stay thin (so you don’t judge her for being a fat cow now)
Wha?
and never ask you for anything (because that would be sucking you dry, the c—).
Sucking me dry? C*nt? Seriously, I am dying to know where you are getting this?
So no. I don’t have a plan to get you that wonderful scenario because your theory is sick.
You were going to get me something? Or not?
It is nothing but prejudice, dressed up as biological determinism, and used to justify your getting sex from women who don’t talk back.
What is “It”?
What is dressed up as biological determinism?
And, why do I not want them to talk?
Buy a doll and leave us the HELL alone in public places.
You understand that you are talking to a shy and awkward guy who does not go out to bars and clubs, right?
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dizzy8, Hear, hear sista!
Candy, you agree with her?!?!
Damn. That is f*cked up.
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BTW, not all here are players of “The Pickup Artist” variety. U.L. for one, would be unhappy to find himself in that category.
If you are referring to the TV show, well, then I have no comment. I have never seen it.
But if you are implying that I will not play the Game, then, you are wrong.
Like I said, I did not invent this Game and I never wanted it. But, I do plan on pursuing my needs. And I plan on doing so honestly, because, well, that is what the Game demands.
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What do I think of him? I consider myself of at least average intelligence and game does not work on me. He says game does NOT work on dumb girls, but DOES on smart ones? It’s been tried on me and failed with high status males because I see right through it. Are you saying I’m not then “smart” enough? Well, that is funny, because I was SO glad I saw through it. I want a long term loving relationship; not to be seduced. Seduction does not lead to great long term relationships contrary to the fairy tales prevalent on TV and in the movies
You did not answer the question. Which is fine, that is your prerogative.
The question is predicated on the idea that it does work on smart women. You are saying that it doesn’t, which means that you are not answering that question.
Also, even if it did not work in you, well, that is a Sample Size = 1. Which says nothing. (And I thought that you said that you had been Gamed, which is one of the reasons why you hated it. Either way, it does not matter. The whole question is predicated on the fact that he is being completely honest and accurate…if you do not want to play, that is fine. But I am really curious).
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123, I agree with what she is saying based on the worst of the players on this site. See “Jack” for details. Most here are varying degrees of “Jack”. He loves using game to bed women from the clubs and then immediately turns around and calls them “club sluts”, “cum dumpsters”, “pump and fuck”. Yes, to me he is a despicable sub human. See “Instant Attraction” post. I know you want to separate yourself somehow from the Jacks of the world but just remember that he is a roissy fan which should tell you something.
Sorry, but there is no reason in hell, why a man cannot respect a woman as a human being, just because she is willing to indulge her sex drive with a man she barely knows. The fact that HE is doing it, is different of course. But when a woman trusts a man enough to take off her clothes, allow him to enter her body, making herself vulnerable to him physically and emotionally; and then for him to turn around and be basically emotionally violent with her is unforgivable. Yes, I know that the best fucking way in whole wide fucking world to get rid of victims is for victims to stop allowing themselves to be be victimized. I KNOW THAT BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT.
Still, it hits me viscerally, because I AM A VULNERABLE WOMAN myself and can relate to the horrible feeling of being used and then discarded like a used condom. I mean, c’mon U.L., you have a heart. Surely you can relate to the feeling of being used. You have no clue what may have gone into the “cum dumpsters” mind when she decided to sleep with the DICK. I know of at least one very happily married woman with 3 beautiful daughters who “broke the rules”, slept with a man on the first date and has been married for at least 19 years. I know of another one night stand from a bar scene where the couple has been together for many years and are very happy. I know of another, where they met at the bar up the street, slept together immediately and are very happily married with a newborn baby.
Do you think for one minute these women imagine they are going to be kicked to the fucking curb after making themselves vulnerable like that? Only the most consciously masochistic would. So have a little heart, is all dizzy8 is saying. Be just a little conscious and don’t behave as a subhuman when seducing women, no matter how ignorant, naive, ill-advised, or loose they might be. They still are sensitive human beings who are effected by outright REJECTION. Are you getting any of this???
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I agree with what she is saying based on the worst of the players on this site. See “Jack” for details. Most here are varying degrees of “Jack”. He loves using game to bed women from the clubs and then immediately turns around and calls them “club sluts”, “cum dumpsters”, “pump and fuck”. Yes, to me he is a despicable sub human. See “Instant Attraction” post. I know you want to separate yourself somehow from the Jacks of the world but just remember that he is a roissy fan which should tell you something.
Candy, you and I were the only ones talking for about 60 posts. I guess it is possible that she decided to rebut the previous commenters on a Blog Posting that was 5 days and 4 entries backl, but, I have to believe that she was talking to me. Granted, I could never figure out who she was quoting.
Sorry, but there is no reason in hell, why a man cannot respect a woman as a human being, just because she is willing to indulge her sex drive with a man she barely knows. The fact that HE is doing it, is different of course. But when a woman trusts a man enough to take off her clothes, allow him to enter her body, making herself vulnerable to him physically and emotionally; and then for him to turn around and be basically emotionally violent with her is unforgivable.
If he barely knows her, how can he respect her? Again, I am looking for specific reasons. AFAIK, you can not respect someone you don’t know. And if you are sleeping with someone after some chit chat and Bar jokes, how can anyone build respect for anyone. But, you can be attracted, and you can have sex; and I think that is what happens.
If some guy then, after sleeping with some girl he just met, refers to her as a Slut, say, to his friends, does that make him an Asshole? YES!
But, and this is extremeley important, why do the Assholes do so much better than the Nice Guys?
If you try to formulate an answer that is predicated on the idea that Men should not care about having Wild Sex with Hot Girls (because that is not “winning”), it will fall on mostly deaf ears. The Assholes won’t care, obviously, and the Nice Guys will be sick of hearing that trite response.
But when a woman trusts a man enough to take off her clothes…
Here, I need to do some assuming, so I hope you will give me a little slack. It was my understanding that when a Girl gets naked and has sex with some new Guy (i.e. not a husband, not a Long-Term boyfriend) that she feels vulnerable. Quite vulnerable. And when you trust someone, you don’t feel vulnerable. And, conversely, when you feel vulnerable, you do not trust that person.
And since Alcohol is so often in this equation, I think that the Trust Factor is diminished even more. (oh, jeez, it just dawned on me that you already noted the vulnerability).
I don’t think these Girls, these Girls that are being Gamed, are feeling much trust at the time of sex.
I mean, c’mon U.L., you have a heart. Surely you can relate to the feeling of being used.
Yes, I would propose that any Nice Guy knows what it is like to be used by a Girl.
I know of at least one very happily married woman with 3 beautiful daughters who “broke the rules”, slept with a man on the first date and has been married for at least 19 years. I know of another one night stand from a bar scene where the couple has been together for many years and are very happy. I know of another, where they met at the bar up the street, slept together immediately and are very happily married with a newborn baby.
Good for them. I am not telling anyone to stop sleeping with anyone. We all have to make our own choices.
Do you think for one minute these women imagine they are going to be kicked to the fucking curb after making themselves vulnerable like that?
I don’t know what they are imagining. I am guessing that they were looking to satisfy their desires. I don’t know.
But I know that I want to start satisfying my needs. That much I do know.
So have a little heart, is all dizzy8 is saying.
That is NOT what she was saying. She was telling me to Fuck Off.
Like I said, I am assuming that she was talking to me (if not me alone). And I am assuming that she saw that I was engaging the Girls for some advice and answers. And she gave me one: “Grow Up”.
Why are you telling me to have a heart? You have read my comments. You can hear my “tone”. Do you think that she had any “heart” for me? Why don’t you tell her that?
Be just a little conscious and don’t behave as a subhuman when seducing women, no matter how ignorant, naive, ill-advised, or loose they might be.
I have been so conscious of others and so aware of their feelings for so long. I am a master at caring for others. I now want to master caring for my needs. In past relationships I thought that if I focused on their feelings, they would focus on mine. I was disabused of this notion.
It is time I “grow up”. I am assuming that I will meet a girl that will care for how I actually feel and not what she wants me to feel. She accept the basic fact that I am a Man and that I have the thoughts, feelings, desires and needs that Men have.
They still are sensitive human beings who are effected by outright REJECTION.
Don’t I know it.
Are you getting any of this???
I have lived it!!!
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Actually dizzy8 IS saying “have a heart.” Telling players to fuck off is her way of saying that, believe it or not. In your particular rant against women, weren’t you really saying the same thing? Hate is not the opposite of love and neither is anger; indifference is. Anger shows an investment in the outcome of a situation. Working through anger is one of the best things a couple can do.
As far as respect goes, to some of us respect and trust do not have to be earned, but they can be unearned. For others, they automatically mistrust and disrespect unless trust and respect are earned. I prefer the first way, and it’s how I’ve managed to not be too cynical. Though, it’s better to trust and respect with awareness and that is a whole world of difference. Learning body language has been a huge asset in that regard. People can’t hide their issues for long, so at least you know a more real version of them, rather than the image they want to project.
dizzy8 is a bit volatile. I can relate to her temper. I’m sure she just dropped in here, took a look around and started venting. She already knows by and large all of roissy’s bullshit and was just offloading her feelings in general about the players. I don’t think she was addressing you directly, though she may have been reacting to your rant.
I know that you have a heart, but just as you were venting about your feelings (which deserve to be taken seriously, by the way) we were venting about ours on the same subject. When I think of a particularly toxic bachelor that tried to trick me into meeting him at the local hot springs late one Thursday night, I do not think of you, so rest assured.
Just don’t become like roissy, O.K.? 😀 That type are the ones who should be reading this stuff, but they’re too busy pump and dumping, for the MOST part. Plus they don’t give a shit. Let’s face it, shall we? They’re loose canons as far as I can see.
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Actually dizzy8 IS saying “have a heart.” Telling players to fuck off is her way of saying that, believe it or not. In your particular rant against women, weren’t you really saying the same thing?
This is probably a semantic argument, but I wasn’t ranting against women. I was ranting against you, where you were representing a woman who was telling me to be a Nice Guy, a Good Guy, and not improve my Game. Because, if I improve my Game, some girl’s feelings might get hurt.
And I was only ranting against you because we had said so much, I thought that you could understand the Rant’s place within the greater context. Damn, I sound like a Professor.
In your particular rant against women, weren’t you really saying the same thing?
No, I was not saying “have a heart”. Something as generic as that is way too easily confused with, well, anything.
I was responding to any Girl, or Guy, that was telling me to be the Nice Guy. That being the Nice Guy is either the Good thing to do or the Right thing to do.
My rant was saying that I believe that I was following the lessons that Politce (read Politically Correct) Society had taught me. And that in following these lessons I was left Frustrated, Bitter, Angry, Confused, Disappointed and Unsatisfied. And, as a Man, it was now my responsibility to make changes. Changes that will produce actual results. And if I end up itter and Angry now (or Frustrated, Confused, Disappointed or Unsatisfied) then it will be my own damn fault.
People can only have sympathy for a Man that has taken the neccesary actions to improve his situation. If sits back and says, “why me?”, people will not sympathize, they will hate him for it. Think him pathetic.
Sympathy usually, only, comes for a Man after he has “been a Man about it” and luck or chance went against him. His actions had proved he was a Man, but luck was not on his side.
Hate is not the opposite of love and neither is anger; indifference is.
OK. What is this responding to? I am a little lost on what this is referring to.
There is a HUGE difference between giving someone the benefit of the doubt and putting your trust in them. I would give my Account and Pin numbers to my brother and parents any day of the week without thinking about it. And to 4 or 5 friends. That is (one example of) trust.
People I work with and some other friends I trust to a lesser degree.
Many people I meet I give the benefit of the doubt to.
My guess is that you do not Trust people that you have just met. But, you may try to see them as something good. (“See God in everyone”, something like that).
I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but, I really, really, really doubt that you really trust people that you just met.
For others, they automatically mistrust and disrespect unless trust and respect are earned.
In my experience, these people have a reason for immediate mistrust. It is unfortunate that they had been hurt, but their learned behavior was learned for a reason.
I’m sure she just dropped in here, took a look around and started venting. She already knows by and large all of roissy’s bullshit and was just offloading her feelings in general about the players. I don’t think she was addressing you directly, though she may have been reacting to your rant.
Candy, this post was 5 days old when she commented. 4 new blog entries were availbe for her to comment on. Also, you and I were the only ones talking and I was the only Man. If she was not talking to me, than she is just an angry idiot.
Also, if she were simply reacting to my rant, she would have seen my Preface. That I was preparing you for a brutal “tone” of voice. A tone that I usually only use with Guys. And that I was only saying it to you because of how much you had already invested in this conversation. I thought that you deserved the more ugly truth.
And she had that to say to me. Unfortunately, it is one more example of a woman not caring about how a Man really thinks and feels. Ugly, brutul and primal, no doubt. But honest and direct.
I know that you have a heart, but just as you were venting about your feelings (which deserve to be taken seriously, by the way) we were venting about ours on the same subject.
Just don’t become like roissy, O.K.?
If I were only given two options: be like Roissy (and have your choice of Girls) or be like the current me (alone and frustrated), well, I hope you already know what choice I would make.
That type are the ones who should be reading this stuff, but they’re too busy pump and dumping, for the MOST part. Plus they don’t give a shit. Let’s face it, shall we? They’re loose canons as far as I can see.
You know, I have known a lot of Nice Guys and more than a few Alphas (Assholes) and by and large the Alphas were more honest and more direct. (I am sure that there are Players out there whoe get women via deception, I am not talking about them).
Plus they don’t give a shit.
Not true. They just prioritze things far differently than you. You can then say, “Ugh, PIGS. They only care about sex!”. Which is not true. It is just a HUGE priority for them. And our current culture makes it quite easy for them to satisfy their basic desires.
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“But, and this is extremeley important, why do the Assholes do so much better than the Nice Guys?”
O.K. I need to address this for you. You like putting men into exactly two categories; Assholes and Nice Guys. Well there is something than those two categories. Something between those two. An asshole/nice guy or a real guy. Not a pushover wimp, and not a cold blooded reptile, someone more authentic. A flawed but genuine human being. Not a human doing (as in doing it the most often) but a human being.
If having frequent sex is your only measure of success…well, you know where I’m going with this. Success is more than scoring, dominating, controlling, getting your “needs” met. At least by MY definition.
How about your wants? Needs are by definition negative. Wants are by definition positive. It’s a small but highly significant difference. Needs are food, water, shelter, air. Sex can be had with your right or left hand if necessary. You’re not going to die without a sex partner.
How about quality of life, quality of sex, quality of experience? What players lack is real imagination. They’re short sighted and shallow for the most part. Sure, some day if they’re lucky some women will love them and they may love them back, but it won’t be because they were big time players. It will be in spite of that the same way men can love women with unfortunate pasts.
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O.K. I need to address this for you. You like putting men into exactly two categories; Assholes and Nice Guys.
I understand that. I simply do that to keep things short.
If having frequent sex is your only measure of success…
No, no, no. And you know that I am not saying that. But, sex, for a Guy, is important in a way that Girls will never understand.
Sex can be had with your right or left hand if necessary.
That is not sex, that is masturbation. And evolution did not make men NEED masturbation. If it did, the Human Race would die out.
You’re not going to die without a sex partner.
You wanna bet? And I am not kidding about this. It would take a real long message to go through the whole thing, but…studies on guys who get regular sex vs no sex and their health…Men who had their Wives leave them and there Suicide rates. All sorts of things.
Yes, No Sex on a Saturday night does not cause instant death, but it plays on a Man.
What players lack is real imagination.
I’ll tell you what. When I improve my Game, I will be sure to bring my imagination with me.
They’re short sighted and shallow for the most part.
Bullshit. Being able to recognize and satisfy your basic needs does not MAKE you shallow. If you were shallow before-hand, then sure, but, otherwise…
Sure, some day if they’re lucky some women will love them and they may love them back, but it won’t be because they were big time players.
It is one thing to say that there are a lot of fish in the sea, and it is another thing to actually go fishing and taste some.
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But, sex, for a Guy, is important in a way that Girls will never understand.
Not true.
it is another thing to actually go fishing and taste some.
So get off here already. 😉
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But, sex, for a Guy, is important in a way that Girls will never understand.
Not true.
OK. Let me re-state. If there are thing that Girls go through that they say Guys will never understand (Mother-Child Attachment, Female Vulnerability, etc.)
Then, this, for the Guys, goes in that category.
Every year we see some new study that something along the lines of: Girls think about sex once a day. Guys think about sex once every 7 seconds (or something like that, the numbers don’t matter).
The disparity is nearly unbelievable.
So get off here already.
I can do this while doing other things. While doing things that I need to do.
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The disparity is nearly unbelievable.
UL, you have much to learn about women, men, and yourself.
Women don’t think about sex “once per day.” Our biology goes in cycles, and there are times when we think about sex constantly, and other times when we are turned off by even the thought of it Our frontal cortex also develops earlier, which enables (most) of us to put a check on our sexual impulse. But make no mistake. It’s there and constant in a healthy, fertile female.
Mother-Child Attachment, Female Vulnerability
Many fathers develop a great bond with their newborns as well, but this culture often denies that bond. Men also feel the same fear and vulnerability (the same basic brain neurochemistry) that women feel. We, like most other life forms, are made up of the same organic substances. Differences exist for sure, but a great connection can also be made between men and women. That bond can be even stronger and developed with more empathy than the bond between same-sex friends.
G’luck.
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Women don’t think about sex “once per day.”
I never said that they did. What I did say is that science is backing up what we have known all along, that Guys think about sex and care about sex in a way that is significantly different than Girls. The “once per day” was an already mentioned arbitrary number.
Our biology goes in cycles, and there are times when we think about sex constantly, and other times when we are turned off by even the thought of it
A great example of how Guys and Girls are different. And that difference is significant. Most Guys would not be able to relate to or really completely understand the idea of being turned off by sex. And, how many times have you seen this joke/drama appear in movies and TV: “how can you even THINK about Food/Sex/Whatever at a time like this?!?!” I understand that it is TV, but it is an exaggeration of how different we really are.
It’s there and constant in a healthy, fertile female.
I am confident that I never made that mistake.
Many fathers develop a great bond with their newborns as well, but this culture often denies that bond.
No doubt, but, again, that is not what I said or implied.
Men also feel the same fear and vulnerability (the same basic brain neurochemistry) that women feel.
Men feel vulnerable? Sure.
The type of vulnerability that Girls feel when they are about to have sex for the first time? No way.
The types of feelings that Girls have that surround sex are very different that what the Guys go through. I don’t think that I have ever met a Guy that felt vulnerable before and during sex and then guilty or regretful afterwards. And most Guys have difficulty relating to and understanding that process. Which was my whole point.
Granted, I used the word “never”, which might have been an exaggeration…but I think that you get the point.
Differences exist for sure, but a great connection can also be made between men and women. That bond can be even stronger and developed with more empathy than the bond between same-sex friends.
I couldn’t agree more. But that in no way invalidates my point.
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Ok, UL, you see yourself as a “nice guy” a “shy guy” who just wants the opportunity to talk to a girl. And you, this self-described nice, shy sweet guy who only wants an opportunity, have chosen to post your plight under something titled, “The Danger of Gaming Subpar Girls,” in which Roissy claims that the reason he can’t remember a girl’s name is that she is not hot enough? And warns men to only hit on the very best-looking women, or risk being bored? In fact, if you’re this sweet, loverly person, why would you even be on a board that refers to women as “cum dumpster” and on and on and on?
The way you describe yourself isn’t adding up.
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And so what if men and women are different. No one ever said they weren’t. We said those differences don’t justify the attitudes that show up on this board.
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And you, this self-described nice, shy sweet guy who only wants an opportunity, have chosen to post your plight under something titled, “The Danger of Gaming Subpar Girls,” in which Roissy claims that the reason he can’t remember a girl’s name is that she is not hot enough?
Is that what I did? Or, did I engage Candy on what her opinion was? Her opinion of another woman?
In fact, if you’re this sweet, loverly person, why would you even be on a board that refers to women as “cum dumpster” and on and on and on?
Do you only want to know why I come here? or, are you also interested in the motives of Candy, Clio, Hope, Lemmonex, Rina, etc.?
Whether you congregate around a camp fire, a water cooler or, well, anything else, you still congregate.
Well, that, and I am pure evil.
The way you describe yourself isn’t adding up.
I used to be a Math Major, so that is going to eat at me. So, please, enlighten me.
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And so what if men and women are different. No one ever said they weren’t.
Is that what you think the main point was?
What I said was that Women often claim that there are things that Men will never understand. I posited that there is at least one thing that Women will never understand about Men.
We said those differences don’t justify the attitudes that show up on this board.
I am guessing that you are speaking for all the women.
I will only speak for myself. If there was something specific that I said that you would like to talk about, well, I am all ears.
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There is, actually, something specific. You started off very, “Hey all, I’m this nice, nice guy and I need Roissy’s game to help me talk to women because I’m too shy to do it on my own.” But now you’re using Roissy’s techniques of engagement – avoid what you can’t answer and twist what you do respond to, putting the other person in the position of explaining themselves to you repeatedly, therby losing their original point, which you can’t answer. (You did it for, like, forty posts with the patient, patient, women who responded to you).
I find that curious. Either you’re Roissy, or you’re just like him. Which would make you anything but a nice guy who women avoid for no reason.
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Would like to quote one of my very favorite wise men on the subject of lust and love. This if for anybody and everybody.
“Never compromise on love. It is the only thing in this world that isn’t bullshit.”
“Love ordinarily is not love, it is lust. And lust is bound to feel hurt, because to desire somebody as an object is to offend him; it is an insult, it is violent. When you move with lust towards somebody, how long can you pretend it is love? It is just something superficial which will LOOK like love, but scratch a little bit and hidden behind it is sheer lust. Lust is animalistic. To look at anybody with lust is to insult, humiliate him, is to reduce the other person to a thing, to a commodity.
No person ever likes to be used; that’s the most ugly thing you can do to anybody. No person is a commodity, no person is a means towards any end.
This is the difference between lust and love; lust uses the other person to fulfill some of your desires. The other is only used, and when the use is complete you can throw the other person away. He is of no more use to you; his function is fulfilled. This is the greatest immoral act in existence: using the other as a means.”
– Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho)
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Osho on sex:
http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Matters-Superconsciousness-Osho/dp/0312261608
I’m buying this book!!
BTW U.L., I know you’ve seen roissy’s latest atrocities; the player vids. OMFG! U.L. if you think THAT is the way to go, do yourself a favor and don’t find out the hard way. Believe us women here, that is a losers route. There are much better ways to enjoy your sexuality and experience it with a woman much more often, without having to lower yourself to a fuckin’ game show host or whatever the hell those guys are supposed to represent. Pathetic, shallow, losers. They’re called “creepers” where I live.
But if you want to learn “game” from those creepers, go right ahead. All I’m saying is there are probably 100 better ways to get what you want. I’ve already mentioned quite a few! Don’t be an idiot. Those guys are laughable imbeciles. They’re DICKS! Stupid DICKS. 😀
And as to why I am here? It amuses me, but if I can get one man to exercise a little intelligence and wake up to what mindless bullshit…
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My brain is swimming in mercury right now as the detox continues, but please allow me to expound, expunge, and digress. Please also allow me shamelessly brag at the risk of being laughed at for trying to “validate” myself. We had a whole thing about that a while back which I’d rather not go into. 😀
Ahem. Here’s the deal. I am a woman who has been told by (and I’m not just trying to brag here!) every man I’ve been with that I am sexually “the best”. If this is true (and who am I to argue?) wouldn’t you want to know what it would take to bed a woman who is actually extremely good in bed? My friend told me recently about a real “10” he seduced and she was the worst lay he ever had. Isn’t it possible that these players only THINK they’re having great sex only because they don’t know any better?
Let’s face it, shall we? The woman who go for these guys are either not picky, easily impressed, dumb as a post, or desperate. In my opinion! So what does it take to bed QUALITY women? Don’t you want the best? Don’t you deserve the best you can get? You’re saying you need to practice. I understand that. But only perfect practice makes perfect, if you catch my meaning. Shoot for the highest quality sexual experience. One that includes real lovingness, not the pump and dump these guys want you to believe is so fucking special. It ain’t special U.L. It’s so pathetic. It’s TV quality sex and TV is geared to a 12 year old maturity level.
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Here’s another thing U.L. Stop needing sex and start wanting it. I’ll bet you $1000 you’ll have better results. The whole “need” thing is a huge turn off. Same thing if a woman is needy about something. And be honest, you won’t die without it. You’re being dramatic. Yes, you may suffer. People in prison suffer, soldiers suffer, nuns suffer, monks suffer, eunuchs suffer, but they don’t die from lack of sex. Yes, it may shorten your life span. So does a whole lot of other shit. So want sex. Want it as much as you want! But stop being so friggin’ needy about it. Women can smell neediness a mile away.
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U.L. It’s me again. I just want to advise you on one thing; head you off at the pass so to speak. Please do not even think about taking apart Osho’s beautiful words and systematically analyzing it statement by statement. He is by far more brilliant than both of us put together. He was (he’s dead now–murdered in fact) a man who combines East and West/Science and Poetry if you will. To take his statements apart is to not get the spirit of his message. There is profound truth in what he says, but only a person of real intelligence is going to get it. It is not something you can “get” intellectually ONLY. If your busy little mind just HAS to pick it apart, in my opinion (and his probably) your mind is simply working against you. Your mind (and most of our minds) is in service to our instincts, our survival and our ego/image, NOT our higher intelligence.
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But now you’re using Roissy’s techniques of engagement – avoid what you can’t answer and twist what you do respond to, putting the other person in the position of explaining themselves to you repeatedly, therby losing their original point, which you can’t answer.
Bring it on. When I spoke to Candy I tried ti address every single point that she brought up, even though more than a few of my questions went unanswered.
And you. I responded to everyone of your initial statements with follow up questions. I don’t think that you answered any of them.
And I am really surprised that you are comparing my writing style to his. I don’t think that they are even close.
So, if there was something that I did not answer, Fire Away. I am all ears.
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U.L. if you think THAT is the way to go, do yourself a favor and don’t find out the hard way. Believe us women here, that is a losers route.
Candy, you said that you did not even watch the parts where he (Cajun) talked to the Girls and got there numbers. (“But those numbers are fakes, and those girls are idiots, and who would want to be with those Bimbos anyway”)
It is unlikely you will see me at too many Bars. But, he spoke to those girls with ease and confidence. If he saw somebody he liked, he went right up to her.
Believe us women here, that is a losers route.
I am believing what I saw there AND what I see in real life. If they guy is a loser, then I don’t even want to know what category I have fallen into.
There are much better ways to enjoy your sexuality and experience it with a woman much more often, without having to lower yourself to a fuckin’ game show host or whatever the hell those guys are supposed to represent. Pathetic, shallow, losers. They’re called “creepers” where I live.
I can’t speak for the “Hosts”. The show is cheesy. But I saw nothing wrong with how Cajun acted while he was at the club. His intro and post-party antics were ridiculous though.
All I’m saying is there are probably 100 better ways to get what you want.
I mean this with absolute sincerity. “I am all Ears”. And I would be happy to listen to specific, applicable advice. Advice that poduces results.
They’re DICKS! Stupid DICKS.
The girls didn’t think that Cajun was a DICK.
It amuses me, but if I can get one man to exercise a little intelligence and wake up to what mindless bullshit…
A lot of thought, at least initially, goes into the building of Confidence, Ease and Rapport. We all need models for our behaviour. Every single last one of us.
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If this is true (and who am I to argue?) wouldn’t you want to know what it would take to bed a woman who is actually extremely good in bed?
Being with a woman has never been a problem for me. I have never had any problems connecting with my Girlfriends or with intimacy. I have been in two Long Term relationships and both Girls were really pushing/hoping for marriage.
I am much more interested in the actual approach and escalation.
Let’s face it, shall we? The woman who go for these guys are either not picky, easily impressed, dumb as a post, or desperate.
Candy, I honestly believe that you need to devalue these girls because you hate the guys who play the game. I would be shocked to learn that the 3 Girls Cajun picked up were either “not picky” or desperate. But, it is TV, and we are seeing a few minutes of their life, so I don’t know.
You’re saying you need to practice.
I am not looking to practice sex. I am looking to learn about approaching though. Granted, practicing sex is always fun.
Shoot for the highest quality sexual experience.
You have to meet and “pick up” the Girls first. But, after that, you got it!
Stop needing sex and start wanting it.
Sex is not the problem. The approach and escalation is/are
And be honest, you won’t die without it. You’re being dramatic..
Do you honestly think that Guys who are alone and frustrated live as long or as happy as guys who aer not? And, even if the frustrated guys did live to a 100, well, that long life would not entice me.
People in prison suffer, soldiers suffer, nuns suffer, monks suffer, eunuchs suffer, but they don’t die from lack of sex.
With the exception of the prisoner, all of those other people had made choices not to have sex. Or, at least put themselves in a position where sex would be unlikely. So, having their interests met did not kill them. I agree.
But stop being so friggin’ needy about it. Women can smell neediness a mile away.
Trust me, they ain’t smellin’ shit. (As of right now, I am not really seeing many people at all. I live in a rather isolated situation, which is why I am more focused on work and moving.)
And, Candy, I wasn’t trying to be needy with you. I was trying to engage you. I want to have a better understanding of the hatred for Game that comes from some women.
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” I have been in two Long Term relationships and both Girls were really pushing/hoping for marriage.”
This is sad to me. They must have been very much in love with you. What DOES it take for you to fall in love? For women, believe it or not, sex is such an incredible connection that it is often enough to make them want to marry a man and have his children. Let me repeat: the experience of sex is so intense mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually that a woman will fall in love. Now, I’m not saying that falling in love is a great or even good reason to get married, but there it is. When that bond has to be broken, it is extremely painful on all levels of her being. Unless the sex tapers off over time to nothing and then ends, it’s very, very devastating. I know you want your feelings considered as a man, but there it is from a woman’s point of view; from a feminine woman who bonds mightily from sex.
” I want to have a better understanding of the hatred for Game that comes from some women.”
Well, here’s one thing. They employ bullshit (lies if you will) to bed women. Here’s a small example in the player vids themselves: How about the “You remind me of my little sister.” endearment? I mean, c’mon. The jerk probably does not even have a sister. That may seem extremely minor to you, but it can only seem minor to someone who uses (or is considering using) people as a means to an end. It can only seem minor to someone who has managed to squash and “overcome” their very conscience in order to get their “needs” met, basically at the expense of another human being. If they will lie about that, what else will they lie about? How is this good for our beloved society? I’m not saying you will lie, but you want to learn ANYTHING from them?
Women want to trust a man on some level if they’re going to have sex and in some ways women ARE like children in that they tend to trust first and ask questions later, much to their demise. They believe what they WANT to believe and act on it much to their own demise. They WANT to believe the idiot is actually telling them the truth! Go figger! And the jerks know this. Okay, here’s another clue. You said yourself you would lock your sister up to keep her from sleeping with a player.
Now, from what I understand you simply want to take the good you can learn and apply it in your own way. We (dizzy8 & I) are just trying to discourage you from learning anything from these actors, posers, users, and poor excuses for men; who are by and large extremely negative role models. Of course, it’s really none of our business in one sense. You gotta do what you gotta do; same as us. But you asked and keep saying you want to know why we hate them, so there it is.
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^ Damn, brain fog! I looked at the vid again and he said something like “you’re my new little sister, you’re adorable.” NOT that he HAD a little sister. Still, my point is the same. They will lie, conceal, manipulate to get what they “need”. Have experienced a player in game mode and in my case, it was what he concealed that told the lie. Lies of omission are lies nonetheless. Concealing something important (and they know it) is still knowingly using a woman as a means to an end.
In my case the man HAD A GIRLFRIEND! I called him on it, and he admitted it. I don’t have sex or any romantic interest whatsoever in men who are already in a relationship. And this woman turns out to be “the love of his life” though he’s completely fucked it up with his fucking around. I avoided a lot of unnecessary bonding and de-bonding pain by avoiding this extremely handsome and sexually appealing man, but that is ALL he is. Nothing good for a woman, only poison.
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In my case the man HAD A GIRLFRIEND!
sara, you are clearly not over this guy. it’s obvious to anyone bored enough to read through your plaintive wails in these comments. i suggest seeing a therapist.
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Oh shut up, roissy! The guy who had the girlfriend I never slept with. Talk to U.L., Hope, and dizzy8. Maybe you can convince them of how bored they are. I don’t need a therapist. I have you! 😀
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They will lie, conceal, manipulate to get what they “need”. Have experienced a player in game mode and in my case, it was what he concealed that told the lie. Lies of omission are lies nonetheless. Concealing something important (and they know it) is still knowingly using a woman as a means to an end.
You keep basing so much of your hatred on something you are assuming. And this is a sticking point in this discussion. You immediately assume that the Guy, Cajun, is lying some sister. As far as I can tell, without knowing the guy, he hasn’t told any lies.
And, like I said before, everything that I have read about improving Game means, “No Lies”. Liars are pathetic. Players, Alphas, whatever, do it through confidence and dominance.
Actually, one of the most common things said by these “gurus” is that what you say is really not that important. It is how you say it.
So, maybe this will always be the sticking point in this discussion. You will always assume that the successful (you know what I mean) guys are telling lies.
Or, that you will try to re-define success. You will not consider a Young Mans real wants, needs and desires.
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Well, one thing is I would like to see women raise their standards. As long as they feel like pawns in a game, they are the “losers” and the men consider themselves “winners”. It should be a win/win situation, ideally.
Raising standards means a man must respect her as a human being before they will allow themselves to bond with them sexually, if that is what they are going to do. I mean if they are going to have sex often enough with one man to bond, and for some that could take as little as one time. Men and women are true opposites in that case.
I understand that young men and older men have real wants, needs, etc. and that includes frequent sex and they have every right to try to fulfill them as well as they can. They are half the equation after all. A blending of masculine and feminine needs to take place and I just see so much pump and dump that no real blending can occur in those situations.
I think society in general would benefit–as individuals do–to stick with one partner and go into them deeply to get that great balance between masculine and feminine energy. Naturally though you can’t stay with someone if it just feels so wrong as you pointed out. Which is why I’m working so much on getting myself to a strong and happy place by myself before I consider getting into another relationship. I do not want to be a weak link in the chain, nor do I want to attract one.
The media also encourages us to use others as a means to end. It encourages us to use people as a commodity. Until WE decide to stop doing that, the media will continue to reflect and influence us that way. The media does not encourage us to have heart and soul in dealing with others. Our hearts and souls are a hindrance. If we are truly happy, fulfilled individuals we won’t need to try to consume our way to happiness to the degree we do now. I’m all for an expansive economy, but hopefully you know what I’m getting at.
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^ I think what I hate is bullshitters. I’m allergic to bullshit, you could say. Many of these players have gotten good at faking true confidence. I can see through it, because I know body language so well. True confidence is something else entirely, but most women have not been trained to distinguish between fake and real confidence.
In many ways these guys over do it. They’re over compensating by acting dominating, aggressive, and indifferent, and all touchy-feely when they’ve just met a girl. Sticking the phone in their face after 1 minute of conversation? I would just simply say, “uh, NO.” and smile, and wait to see what they would do next!
Players actually love a challenge too. A woman who REALLY sees through their strategies is very sexy. They know that if they could qualify, it would best they’ve ever had. In some ways (it’s been pointed out here before) players are looking for the woman who sees through their game without trying to shatter their ego at the same time. Unfortunately when they see through the game, they are often not interested in pursuing anything further with them.
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This is sad to me. They must have been very much in love with you. What DOES it take for you to fall in love?
Well, don’t be too sad. In the first one we fought like cats and dogs. We were meant to be friends, not lovers.
The second was more complicated. But, ultimately, I was not happy. A marriage in either case would have been a huge mistake. And any children born from it would have resented us for the impending divorce.
I know you want your feelings considered as a man, but there it is from a woman’s point of view; from a feminine woman who bonds mightily from sex.
I understand. If it makes you feel any better, the first one understood that we should break up. The second, even though she could see it coming, well, she was devastated. But, there was nothing anyone could do. Marriage would have been a horrible decision.
Here’s a small example in the player vids themselves: How about the “You remind me of my little sister.” endearment? I mean, c’mon. The jerk probably does not even have a sister.
If he is lying, then I agree with you. I hate liars. If he does have a little sister, then I have no problem with what he said.
That may seem extremely minor to you, but it can only seem minor to someone who uses (or is considering using) people as a means to an end.
No, lies are lies.
I’m not saying you will lie, but you want to learn ANYTHING from them?
If I really thought that Game implied lies, then I would not value it. And if it ultimately does mean lying, that is, if Game means to lie, then I will not improve my Game. And, to connect this to this particular blog, I believe he did mention something about Guys that lie are at the bottom of the Game Totem Pole. But, regardless of what anyone says, liars are liars.
Women want to trust a man on some level if they’re going to have sex and in some ways women ARE like children in that they tend to trust first and ask questions later, much to their demise.
I understand that you are a woman and I am not, but I am going to speak for women here. I don’t believe that the Girls trust the guys that they are sleeping with (I am talking about meeting a Guy on Tuesday and sleeping with him on Wednesday…not some long term thing). You are right that they want to trust him, but they can’t. They just don’t know yet. But, he might be exciting, dangerous, gorgeous, charming, powerful, whatever…and they want to give in to their impulses. They want to feel those feelings. So, they go with it. This is one reason why alcohol can be so helpful. Or hurtful. Depends on the view.
They WANT to believe the idiot is actually telling them the truth!
Well, in this particular instance, what are you going to do? Believe that he DOESN’T have a sister. It would be one thing if he told her that he was royalty, or a Race Car Driver or a Doctor or, whatever. I think that Girls have their Bullshit Detectors on for that kind of stuff. But, again, in this case, there isn’t a whole lot not to believe. They didn’t really talk about “deep” stuff.
Okay, here’s another clue. You said yourself you would lock your sister up to keep her from sleeping with a player.
Well, I want to clarify here. One, I don’t have a sister. I just want to make that clear in light of what you saw in the video. I was making a “for instance”. Two, I wouldn’t lock her up. This is a free country, and this would only make that guy forbidden fruit. I would want her to understand that when, not if, but when she feels guilty afterwards, no one is going to feel sorry for her. She chose to go swimming with sharks and got bitten. That is what I was trying to say.
Now, from what I understand you simply want to take the good you can learn and apply it in your own way. We (dizzy8 & I) are just trying to discourage you from learning anything from these actors, posers, users, and poor excuses for men; who are by and large extremely negative role models.
Again, I am assuming that no lies were told. In this case, I am assuming that Cajun does have a sister. You know how I feel if he didn’t. But, assuming that he does, I think he did just fine. Better than fine. He produced results. He is modeling behavior that produces results.
If you come back and say, “Fine, he can get girls. But what about this (some example). This also produces results. And it is far better than what he is doing.” Great. Bring it on. But very few girls do that. And for good reason. Girls do not spend their lives analyzing how to get Girls. They spend their lives being Girls. But, if I am going to here Girls howling about these Alphas (Assholes, Seducers, Pick Up Artists, whatever) then I am going to want a counter example. A counter example that will focus on my wants and needs (that is, of a male). That is some of what you and I have been talking about.
Of course, it’s really none of our business in one sense.
Not true. I asked. This was my choice. Nothing was forced on me. And I can take it (the advice) or leave it. In my case, I debated it. I am a Nerd, that is what we do.
But you asked and keep saying you want to know why we hate them, so there it is.
Well, I keep looking to refine certain points. Like, that you saw that guy, Cajun, as being pathetic. A loser. And I really think that comes from someone who is devaluing men. Men need to hunt. And the better he has gotten at it, the more confident he has become (I am assuming). I am not a Bar/Club guy, but I would love to have the ease that he does. The kind of confidence that he does. I don’t see him as being pathetic at all. I think that you are always approaching this equation from the Girls point of view. Which is fair. But, as you have said, you are the approached. And never the Approacher. But, now I feel that I have gotten off subject.
Back to the hate. After the video was posted, you said that you can’t wait until they have a show where they have women getting money from men (houses, cars, cruises, clothes, etc.) But that is absolutely not the converse.
Girls go to Bar and Clubs to be around Guys. To be approached (Yes, I understand that some don’t…that some only want to dance, and, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean.) Girls want to be approached. Not everyday and not in every way and not by every guy. But they do want to be pursued. And that is what the show is about (I presume).
Guys do not want to spend money on Girls. They do. But, they don’t exactly desire it.
At the club, both sexes want to have fun, to meet exciting people, to laugh, to tell jokes, to tell stories, to get/give numbers, to do all that stuff. If you didn’t want to be in that kind of environment (like Hope) you don’t go.
Both sexes do not want to spend money on the Girl. But, many times, the Guy does. It is not synonymous.
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Well, one thing is I would like to see women raise their standards. As long as they feel like pawns in a game, they are the “losers” and the men consider themselves “winners”. It should be a win/win situation, ideally.
Well, two things were said here. I think that many women are unsure what to do with their standards. (“Am I being too picky, I mean, I am not getting any younger”, “Ugh, I don’t want to settle! I want True Love.”, etc.) And that is talked about in that article Hope pointed to in the Atlantic Monthly. Actually, there are about 8 gazillion books on the subject at Barnes and Noble. If you and I were to start talking about that, we would be here forever.
And, on the second point, only a few men feel like winners in the game. As and others have pointed out: the Betas far outnumber the Alphas. It is really only the Alphas that feel like winners (with a few Betas, as well).
But, as we have said before, the Game has changed. To see the institution of marriage evolve over the last few thousand years and then basically have a radical change in the twentieth century, well, it has had some side effects. I think that women are only starting to complain about it now (say, the last 10-15 years).
Raising standards means a man must respect her as a human being before they will allow themselves to bond with them sexually, if that is what they are going to do.
Well, back in the Bad Old Days, you had to Respect/Marry the cow before you got any Milk. Now, for some men, that Milk flows and it is for free. And many of the Betas simply see a life of Child Support and Alimony Payments with instructions from the Judge on Visitation Rights.
I just see so much pump and dump that no real blending can occur in those situations.
Yes, there is plenty of Pumping and Dumping. But,. for the most part, only Girls feel that pain. Think of Gay Men. So many Gay Men have casual sex, lots and lots of casual sex with seemingly little regret. It is Testosterone on top of Testosterone. None of that Bonding/Regret/Guilt/Vulnerability. It is not PC to talk about it, but it is true. What is funny about it is that it is usually Hetero Men who are seen as the Homophobes and, in this case, it is usually the Hetero Men who understand that dynamic the best.
I think society in general would benefit to stick with one partner
Well, things changed in the 60’s. And it seems that most people think that it was a glorious decade that got rid of so many chains. And I think that if you want that “one partner” solution, you are going to have to ask for the Bad Old Days again. To some degree.
I do not want to be a weak link in the chain, nor do I want to attract one.
That is a good line. Keeper.
The media also encourages us to use others as a means to end. It encourages us to use people as a commodity. Until WE decide to stop doing that, the media will continue to reflect and influence us that way. The media does not encourage us to have heart and soul in dealing with others.
I really can’t agree with that. To this day, the “media” will look negatively on Players and Simple Selfishness (“I got mine, now you get yours”). And most of the media can not stand the true commodity wheelers and dealers. Granted, that is usually because most Journalism Majors have absolutely no understanding of markets.
I’m allergic to bullshit, you could say. Many of these players have gotten good at faking true confidence.
Well, then, you should get angry at most Psychologists and Therapists. I can tell you from experience that most of them will tell you to Fake It ’til You Make It. It could Confidence, Ease, Relaxation, Peace, whatever. To practice something that might be unnatural until it feels more natural.
In many ways these guys over do it.
Well, the guys that fail over do it. The guys that succeed don’t. It is basically a tautology. You say that it would not work with you, but, that is just one person. A Man does not need to succeed with every women he meets. That would be futile. Again, there are a lot of fish in the sea.
Players actually love a challenge too. A woman who REALLY sees through their strategies is very sexy. They know that if they could qualify, it would best they’ve ever had. In some ways (it’s been pointed out here before) players are looking for the woman who sees through their game without trying to shatter their ego at the same time. Unfortunately when they see through the game, they are often not interested in pursuing anything further with them.
Well, when I get to that point, I will let you know.
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Well U.L. you seem to be one of the more intelligent here, mainly because you don’t know everything already like so many others. You are willing to teach and learn which requires dropping your ego now and then to varying degrees. You’ll probably do much better than the rest because you want to be a good man in your own eyes, not in the eyes of other men. I see many of the gamers here competing with each other like the game show videos show. Did you notice how the commentators are all sitting with their legs apart? It’s classic primate behavior. They are displaying their privates to keep other males away. Most of the players would probably not deny that either, but I don’t know if they’re aware of what they’re body language is saying.
More later…
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Did you notice how the commentators are all sitting with their legs apart?
Well, I always sat with my legs like that. It was always the most comfortable. I always hated sitting on the School Bus because there was not enough room for me to sit comfortably.
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Wow I thought you had more game than that. That’s textbook last minute sh*t test. Which why an experienced player or natural would USE her NAME during the conversation so he will not forget. Or you can always have a good wingman that will tell you later if you are sh*t faced. Seriously the name is probably the most important thing to remember for a girl. Using this strategy it is easy to get rid of fugly chicks. Just tell them you forgot their name or don’t care… they will walk away instantly.
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