It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
Update:
According to this article in Slate, Spitzer arranged to meet one of his whores in DC on the night before Valentine’s Day.
The only way this would be more humiliating for his wife is if he banged the whore right in front of her while she was tied to a chair forced to watch and then told her to “Pay attention. This is what a real money shot looks like.”
No doubt his wife will stand by her man, just like Hillary stood by Bill. That is because Spitzer, like Bill, is an alpha, and women stand by alphas for doing things that would get betas an earful of feminist shrieking and their stuff thrown to the curb.
[…] Spitzer was already a disaster: Before his first year in office, Eliot Spinomoremister.blogspot.comEliot Spitzer Busted In Prostitution Ring It couldn??t happen to a nicer guy.roissy.wordpress.comWhere Are Demands for Spitzer??s […]
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“I have disappointed and failed to live up to the standard I expected of myself. I must now dedicate some time to regain the trust of my family.”
Ha ha ha
Do you think some men live in a delusional world where they believe that they are meeting some sort of standard? Are they trying? Or are they just lying to others but not to themselves? This confuses me.
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Proverbs 6:27. “Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned?”
Crazy, to lose your dignity, most likely your presitigous job, and maybe your family for $5500 tryst?
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“Spitzer had previously prosecuted two prostitution rings when he was the New York Attorney General.”
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/03/report_governor_spitzer_involv.html
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Do you think some men live in a delusional world where they believe that they are meeting some sort of standard? Are they trying? Or are they just lying to others but not to themselves? This confuses me.
Really? Seems pretty clear to me. Spitzer is an alpha male. One woman just isn’t enough to meet his outsize sexual appetite. In a tribal society, he’d have multiple women. It’s not socially acceptable to have multiple wives (’cause then none of us betas would have any), so he has to sneak around and pretend he’s a family man.
He lies. He’s a politician. 😉 Remember Machiavelli: it is necessary to appear to be a good person, but also necessary not to actually be a good person.
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I don’t see what paying $3000 an hour for a whore has to do with being an alpha male. Anyone can pay for sex. A real alpha male would have a mistress or two on the side, like them polititicians in France and such.
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Anyone can pay for sex. A real alpha male would have a mistress or two on the side, like them polititicians in France and such.
Precisely. The direct purchase of sex is the thing that signifies to all women that you have no other redeeming qualities. Think George Clooney ever has to pay a girl to look at him twice? As a side note, Asia has the biggest prostitution businesses in the world.
Spitzer is an alpha male. One woman just isn’t enough to meet his outsize sexual appetite.
In France the politicians date models and actresses. In America they court men in bathrooms and prostitutes. Does alpha male sexual appetite have no standards? What you call alpha males are really just sexual deviants with too many repressed kinks because most civilized societies have unhealthy obsessions with sex control.
Oh, and I know what the joke is. You don’t pay her for the sex — you pay her to leave afterwards. However, that no longer applies as there are plenty of women who would leave without a complaint. A simple affair would have been far less damaging to his political career, and would have left less of a paper trail. Recent example: the allegations that McCain slept with one of the Republican women buzzing around didn’t much faze him.
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Well, now he should have come out here to rural Nevada where it’s legal!
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Hand caught in the poon jar! Also the Catholic Church release of 7 new sins today deserves a blog post.
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This situation in no way relates to an alpha. His wife may choose to save her family. Maybe she knew the whole time. But plenty of betas have ennui and social standing on their side too in the post-adultery shakedown. Your lack of logic and absence of evidence is, as usual, astounding.
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A comment from an alpha male bf of mine: “If I ever have to pay for sex, ‘it’ can fall off”.
I agree with Hope and to a lesser degree with Dizzy8 on this one, Roissy. Anyone can pay for sex…Although it does seem as if even alphas may end up doing so, as the saying Hope quotes suggests, in order to ensure that the sex object leaves quickly and quietly.
But women like that have no reason to be loyal to the men they sleep with, so they are not safe bets for politicians. A married woman with children might have more incentive to remain silent in a case like this.
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Some women are willing to overlook their husbands’ dalliances with hookers but not with mistresses. It makes sense, as a “relationship” with a hooker is sex only, with no emotional ties.
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Do you think some men live in a delusional world where they believe that they are meeting some sort of standard? Are they trying? Or are they just lying to others but not to themselves?
hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue.
or: boner uber alles.
This situation in no way relates to an alpha.
dizzy, tell me, where were the feminists when bill clinton was shoving cigars up a powerless intern’s cooch?
the sound of silence…
Anyone can pay for sex…Although it does seem as if even alphas may end up doing so
i meant that spitzer is an alpha because he was a powerful prosecutor and governor, not because he solicited hookers.
to your second point, yes, it does seem that alphas needlessly procure the services of whores when they could easily get a mistress for free, but it is in the nature of an alpha to do reckless risky things.
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I think you’re right, Peter, but there is another factor influencing such behaviour, or rather, which used to influence it: that in the kinds of societies in which marriage is taken very seriously, to the point of maintaining a strict legal differentiation between wifehood and concubinage: mistresses and prostitutes alike had little standing. Their children could not inherit, unless the father claimed them openly. So even the most humiliated wife could tell herself that she was, at least, a wife.
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Spitzer can’t just go down to the local singles bar and pick up a girl. By frequenting a very high class, expensive prostitution company he is in part paying for secrecy. I’m sure this group’s other clients do not want their names out in public either. Its in the group’s financial and legal interests to keep everything very secretive.
I think this is one reason he paid as opposed to taking a mistress. Besides, here he could pick a new girl each time if he wanted, instead of being stuck with the same mistress.
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dizzy, tell me, where were the feminists when bill clinton was shoving cigars up a powerless intern’s cooch?
the sound of silence…
The Duke lacrosse guys, to name one of many examples, were alphas but the feminists went after them with a relish. The feminists didn’t defend Bill because he was an alpha, they defended him because he was a political ally. Gore was a beta but Naomi Wolf tried to help him out with the earth tones (with ludicrous results when found out). Feminists know they get further with Dems than Reps in office so they tend to be harder on the Reps. It’s just political expediency.
Seduction theory and game explain a lot but they don’t explain everything.
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—-A comment from an alpha male bf of mine: “If I ever have to pay for sex, ‘it’ can fall off”. —-
The naivete of women is just amazing. What do you expect him to say to you. “Hey baby, can we push dinner with your friend and her fiance back to 8? I got booked with the Slovakian twins and want to blow my nut a couple of times with them.”
When one thinks about it, it’s only the United States that views prostitution as something illegal. The UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, all of Latin America, it’s just a regular part of life for many men, especially wealthy men.
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The Duke lacrosse guys, to name one of many examples, were alphas but the feminists went after them with a relish.
Duke lacrosse was NOT a feminist issue! It was a race issue, as you can see by Al Sharpton’s reaction.
In the view of a girl, if she’s landed a guy way above her in the status market, then she’ll expect him to cheat and not even get on his case about it, realizing that she’d rather be a neglected wife to an alpha than be put on a pedestal by a beta.
Seduction theory and game explain a lot but they don’t explain everything.
They work on the micro level. The assumptions have to be taken for granted if you want psychometricians to create gigantic models of human society based on evo-psych models of human behavior.
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Yes, “monohechomierda”, I agree that this is something a bf might lie about. But his opinion on the matter was not solicited by me, and the context was a discussion of another man we both knew. My bf volunteered that this man frequented prostitutes, and said of himself “I’m a pretty straight guy…if I ever have to pay for sex, ‘it’ can fall off'”.
I had a policy then of never asking questions to which I might not want to hear the answers…it’s a good way of preventing lies.
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oh, BTW, I’m Canadian. Prostitution is not technically illegal here either. But that doesn’t mean that we (or people in Britain, France, etc.), see it as a simple fact of life, with no shame attached.
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@ Hope:
“Think George Clooney ever has to pay a girl to look at him twice?”
He doesn’t have to, but I bet he does when it’s convenient. Remember people, Hugh Grant paid a hooker for sex when dating Elizabeth Hurley in her prime. Charlie Sheen who regularly dates world class women (looks-wise) is know to frequent high price prostitutes.
This should tell you one thing – NO woman is “safe” when it comes to the roving eye of men. (Same probably goes for men too. ) And to boil down to “does so-and-so have to pay for sex” is WAAAY too simplistic. There’s something to be said for sex, how you want it, with zero strings attached.
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Spitzer is and always has been a douche. And this is penny ante crap compared to Buddy Cianci’s antics. Do you think that guy ever had to be sneaky about what tramps he diddled? Of course not. Which means Spitzer, a New Yorker, was shown up as a tough guy by a goon from Rhode Island, which should be far more embarassing than any little prostitution scandal.
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lol. i love a tough guy bragging about how paying for pussy is beneath him!
anytime you pay for dinner, pay for drinks, etc etc you are buying ass. she may be selective about
who she sells some ass too, but the shit is never free.
the ego stoking “game” guys are funny too if they base their entire self worth on what some girl they meet in a bar thinks. if you put time and effort and money into creating a persona to get ass, at some point you might just want to buy an orgasm.
spitzer is a fucking cunt.
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This should tell you one thing – NO woman is “safe” when it comes to the roving eye of men.
It tells me one more thing — some men care more about the physical component than the other aspects of being with someone. I notice two categories of men: those who dislike prostitution, and those who love the idea of frequenting prostitutes.
You could point to alias clio’s case and say that it’s because the guy was speaking to a woman. But it has nothing to do with changed male behavior around females (I have posed the question as gender-assumed male anonymous). It has everything to do with the character of the man.
Some men are more chivalrous than others, and no woman who is with a player should expect gentlemanly behavior. As I wrote on rina’s blog, women who don’t care to be used for sex only should just avoid such men, and leave them to use prostitutes.
Beyond that, roissy constantly talks about not paying for a woman’s drinks and getting her to invest in the game player. By that logic, paying for a prostitute is simply paying too much and demonstrating lower value. The discreet argument does not work because of the tangible dollar bill attached to the transaction.
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@Hope
“It tells me one more thing — some men care more about the physical component than the other aspects of being with someone”
I think it’s possible for a man to have sex with one person and still love someone else. I’m not sure monogamy is a natural state in men. I personally believe it’s mostly a result of societal conditioning and available options.
“Some men are more chivalrous than others, and no woman who is with a player should expect gentlemanly behavior.”
Is Eliot Spitzer a “player”?
“Beyond that, roissy constantly talks about not paying for a woman’s drinks and getting her to invest in the game player.”
A *well placed* drink purchase can do wonders actually, but in generally I agree with this advice. The reason roissy says this is because in general, buying drinks doesn’t work. It has nothing to do with demonstrating.
“By that logic, paying for a prostitute is simply paying too much and demonstrating lower value. ”
This is the educated woman’s way of saying “oh what a worthless scumbag!”. 🙂
My attitude is if you’re in a relationship where the marriage is loveless (or the sex is inadequate), get a divorce! People make life hard for themselves with all the sneaking around and whatnot. It can be tough for guys though since divorce can be extremely expensive.
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I think it’s possible for a man to have sex with one person and still love someone else. I’m not sure monogamy is a natural state in men. I personally believe it’s mostly a result of societal conditioning and available options.
I’m not saying it’s impossible, but if a woman has sex with a man that she doesn’t love, while loving another man (who does not know or approve of the action) — then she is intentionally hurting or lying to the man she loves. Same applies to men. People who go around hurting and lying to other people — we call these people mean assholes.
Of course, if both partners know and understand that sometimes sexual variety is wanted and both allow for a bit of bending of rules, that’s entirely different and implies prior consent. This would be coming from the angle of love. Robert Heinlein often wrote of this kind of permissive marriage in his books. However, I doubt this particular politician’s wife consented. If she did, then his actions would be excusable (except for, of course, the blatant hypocrisy in prosecuting a rival prostitution ring).
Monogamy is a natural state if you define monogamy socially. Birds are naturally monogamous, but only socially and not sexually. Humans are a lot like this as well. This is a biological fact that helps genes spread, and so the phenomenon of adultery/infidelity persists much as other “sins” like theft and murder. I am not so morally inflexible that I do not see the validity in sinning sometimes — killing in self-defense, for example. But to cut a blank check to adultery or murder would be creating social and biological chaos, too.
My attitude is if you’re in a relationship where the marriage is loveless (or the sex is inadequate), get a divorce! People make life hard for themselves with all the sneaking around and whatnot. It can be tough for guys though since divorce can be extremely expensive.
I would agree, but changing societal norms and habits sometimes has unintended side effects that aren’t always for the better. Human — and animal — nature is such that it requires boundaries set so that our perfectly natural, ravenous urges do not become detrimental to ourselves. A simple analogy: the common household pets nowadays are fed to excess, and since they cannot stop themselves, they’re becoming obese like humans are. They have a plethora of health problems and can barely even run to save their own tails. Moderation and stricter rule produces a more desirable outcome than total freedom.
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Hope did you know that…
In the 10 Commandments, it is wrong to murder (rather than kill) and wrong to commit adultery with someone else’s wife.
Boy does that change the morality, doesn’t it?
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“People who go around hurting and lying to other people — we call these people mean assholes.”
Agreed, they’re assholes. I was disagreeing with your statement that when men cheat it means they “are more about the physical component than the other aspects of being with someone”. It’s not quite that simple. A man can care more about his relationship with a loved one and/or his family…and still cheat. Yes it makes him an asshole since he promised he wouldn’t sleep with others, but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about his family’s feelings either (of course sometimes it means exactly that).
“Monogamy is a natural state if you define monogamy socially. ”
I’ve never heard this. Does this mean you have a family for the public while keeping mistresses on the side? I think this is very popular in many parts of the world (not the U.S. obviously).
“But to cut a blank check to adultery or murder would be creating social and biological chaos, too.”
Murder isn’t the same thing as adultery. 😉 And I don’t think adultery would lead to chaos either. If a man wants to have sex with other women and the wife isn’t OK with it, then they should just get divorced and be done with it.
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Also, I disagree about the divorce. Please define what ‘loveless’ means and how it comes to be that way. Lukewarm feelings without much sexual desire? That happens all the time. Hate each other? That happens too, since hate and love are not opposites but are often one in the same. It is a woman’s nature to do anything and everything to keep a relationship together, no matter what. Why? For the sake of the children. 95% of women’s seemingly different (from men) and irrational behavior stems from the need to properly raise our difficult offspring. Don’t get a divorce unless there’s no children to speak of, but the idea of having no children to speak of is very very new in our modern history and i guarantee that it’s just a phase.
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If a man wants to have sex with other women and the wife isn’t OK with it, then they should just get divorced and be done with it.
Wrong. This is the natural state of our species, for life-long partnerships, but as Hope said, only social monogamy. Men will and most likely than not, do cheat. And women are supposed to feel jealous and horrible. But guess what? This is how we’re meant to be. Not all natural human states and feelings are positive. Many things (death, adultery, pain) are very natural and common but make us feel bad. You’ve been led to believe, like most Americans, that you’re always supposed to be happy.
Additionally, as I tell my boyfriend, if a man cheats he should NEVER tell me. I want to spared the horrible, natural feelings. Ignorance is bliss and it’s best that we stay in the dark. But it doesn’t mean I can stop him from having a one-night stand, all I can hope for is that if he loves me, he won’t get emotionally involved. C’est la vie. But I don’t think I’d ever leave him, I want a stable home in which to raise kids.
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@rina
“Please define what ‘loveless’ means and how it comes to be that way. Lukewarm feelings without much sexual desire? That happens all the time. Hate each other? That happens too…”
When these feelings become the norm and not temporary bumps in the road, then it’s time to go your seperate ways.
“Don’t get a divorce unless there’s no children to speak of”
Yes, having children makes things more complicated. I’m more inclined to say stick it out until the tykes grow up, but growing up in a house with two people who don’t like each other isn’t exactly healthy either. It depends on the level of dislike, I guess.
“Additionally, as I tell my boyfriend, if a man cheats he should NEVER tell me. I want to spared the horrible, natural feelings. Ignorance is bliss and it’s best that we stay in the dark.”
This is good advice.
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I’ve never heard this. Does this mean you have a family for the public while keeping mistresses on the side? I think this is very popular in many parts of the world (not the U.S. obviously).
In many places (Asia, some parts of the western world like France), married men and women maintain a family for legal purposes but have outside relations. Historically, it is likely that only very few men succeeded at polygyny. The majority of people practiced social monogamy, but sperm competition is no stranger in our evolutionary past either.
The testicles of homo sapiens are larger than those of gorillas but smaller than those of the champion chimpanzees. Chimps have pretty much a sexual free-for-all, and many different males often copulate in succession with the same female. Since male chimpanzees compete with their sperm, they evolved big testicles to produce large quantities of it. The ratio of testicle size to body size is a good predictor of female partner numbers.
Murder isn’t the same thing as adultery.
I was speaking of the biblical sins. Adultery in itself does not lead to chaos, and it’s in fact a part of our evolutionary heritage. Divorce, however, disrupts the rules that have worked reasonably well for thousands of years. Humans are not unique in this regard — in animal society these rules exist as well. Among birds which are 90% socially monogamous, they generally mate for life. The males do not actually abandon the females who copulate with strangers, but they often participate in adultery themselves. The net result seems to be an overall increase in genetic fitness. Humans may in fact be breeding ourselves out by turning away from monogamy.
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Hope I love you.
The net result seems to be an overall increase in genetic fitness. Humans may in fact be breeding ourselves out by turning away from monogamy.
To have ideal genetic success, you need to spread your genes with the choicest mates, and you need to raise your offspring well. This is especially true for humans, since it takes roughly 18 years to fully raise a child to adulthood. Human babies and children are very vulnerably and without proper teaching and socialization, they will rarely survive. That’s why social monogamy is deeply rooted in our biology and psychology, it’s not just a cultural invention. Feelings of jealousy, oxytocin, vasopressing, etc all exist for this very purpose.
There is a caveat, however, social monogamy between males and females is not the only way to ensure proper survival. Human females form cliques and usually have their mothers, aunts, and grandmothers nurture the children as well. So perhaps there do need to be several nurturers for a baby, but it’s not so black and white that the male has to be there.
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Spitzer should have taken her to the Radisson in Chinablock. No one would have believed it.
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It is not good for any human society to be composed of female-headed households, while the men wander off into the wilderness as soon as they reach puberty.
When males are left free to wander outside the domestic space, they often turn rogue, and the stronger and more competitive ones kill, or suborn the services of, the weaker and less competitive ones. Hence gang-formation, in some African-American sub-cultures. I don’t think this is a race-based phenomenon, myself, although I know there are people who disagree with me. I think it’s liable to happen in any society in which family formation is difficult for men, even in ultra-patriarchal societies, like certain Islamic ones.
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The market is up, Spitzer goes down….ahhh poetic justice.
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american women are basically frigid or dont have a clue about sex especially the upcoming generation
any of you gents experienced in foreign women know what i mean
$4300 huh? what a waste. he should have joined me in s.e asia several months ago
i could have got him hooked up with a beautiful 19 year old
for the barang price of $5 a pop or $25 for the night
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Roissy:
“i meant that spitzer is an alpha because he was a powerful prosecutor and governor, not because he solicited hookers.
to your second point, yes, it does seem that alphas needlessly procure the services of whores when they could easily get a mistress for free, but it is in the nature of an alpha to do reckless risky things.”
I think you are just confusing alpha with asshole or sociopath. Bill Clinton is a classic sociopath (and no, they are not all serial killers).
True alphas (male and female) rarely act out in socially negative manners. They don’t need to. They get plenty of attention without having to do anything.
In fact, the few true alphas I have known, feel the responsibility of taking care of the people who look up to them and simply wouldn’t behave like Spitzer. Period.
Look in the animal world. A lot of people may think their mare is the alpha of a herd because she is always bullying the other mares in to subservience. But she is not the alpha, she is simply the top beta. The alpha mare gets what she wants, when she wants it and is left alone without having to do much more than lay her ears back once in a great while.
Spitzer may want to be a top beta, but he’s ceratinly not an alpha. Just remember, being a governor does not make you an alpha male. Point in case would be Gray Davis, former governor of California.
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god, this alpha stuff is ridiculous. It’s just some totally imaginary ideal of masculine perfection.
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“american women are basically frigid or dont have a clue about sex especially the upcoming generation
any of you gents experienced in foreign women know what i mean
$4300 huh? what a waste. he should have joined me in s.e asia several months ago
i could have got him hooked up with a beautiful 19 year old
for the barang price of $5 a pop or $25 for the night”
I don’t doubt that such women have advantages that free American women can’t or won’t offer. But I really, really doubt that they are more sexually responsive than American women – in reference to your point about how Am. women are all “basically frigid”. For heaven’s sake, they’re paid professionals! Do you think they’re not going to pretend to colossal sexual satisfaction if it means that they might make more money? Are you so naif that you don’t know not to take the word of a subordinate over something like that? Get a grip, man. It’s like a woman asking her babysitter, “Do you think I’m a good mother?”
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Seriously, people should shut the fuck up and stop attaching stupid biased personal definitions to “alpha” and polluting the comment board with bullshit.
The alpha male is the most dominant/fit (Evolutionary Science look it up) this means they are superior to others… it could take intelligence or physical form, as long as it helps them mate and survive better than others they are the ALPHA. You can be a sociopath, psychopath and still be an alpha. Many CEO/business men who are alphas are also sociopaths.
Paying for hoes isn’t beta if they are “high quality.” More beta to go on dates and getting nothing than spending that money to bone a model 10 looking escort all night. People against it are living in denial… social brainwash has its usefulness.
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