There are two different dating strategies to follow depending on your relationship goals.
Short term fling
Don’t bother putting much imaginative effort into your dates. When you are doubtful of the girl you are dating as relationship material you’re better off minimizing your courtship investment. A “girl you date” as opposed to a “girl you see” won’t need the kind of strong emotional foundation that a more serious prospect would require. Stick to bars and lounges and idle chit chat over middle shelf cocktails. A girl can be massaged from “hello” to “fuck me harder!” without all the rigamarole of complicated dates meant to impress. Basic game will get you there so skip the fancy embroidery and concentrate on the fundamentals.
Long term girlfriend
If you feel extra special about the girl you’re dating and can envision spending time with her in addition to sex and dates that are mere props for sex then you will need to build a reinforced emotional structure. Short term flings are great but if you like the girl a lot you have to deal with the uncertainty of her pulling a 180 on you during the first couple months of dating. Potential heartbreak and wasted investment can be avoided by building a stronger bond earlier in the dating cycle. The way to do this is to get creative with your date ideas and really show her an interesting time. Take her to exciting places or events. Go on a hike. See a band. Do something out of the ordinary like indoor rock climbing or horseback riding. The more action-oriented and energetic your dates, the more things you will have to talk about on each successive date. The unpredictable stimulus of these kinds of dates serves to bond her more closely to you. As a result of sharing so many high octane experiences over the course of a few dates, a similar psychological phenomenon to time compression imbues her with the feeling that she has shared so much more with you than she actually has. The intense buildup of experiences gives you something to talk about besides situational observations and astrology. This is the way to win yourself solid girlfriends.
For example, here is a date progression I followed for a girl I liked as more than a notch:
1st date: Drinks at a Latin lounge/Salsa class ==> 2nd Date: Hilarious but disturbing show at indie club ==> 3rd Date: Chill drinks at my place and heavy makeout ==> 4th Date: Go-Kart racing at an indoor track ==> 5th Date: Sex ==> 6th Date: Hike in the woods.
This sequence gave us a head of steam that sustained an ultimately doomed relationship for months longer than it would have otherwise lasted. I’m certain my creativity over those first crucial dates left her with powerful memories that she uses to endure sex with whatever guy she is currently dating.
Nice date progression there. Now we need one-night stand strategies for up-and-coming guys too busy to invest this kind of time/money in anyone, but who still want to have sex. 🙂
Basic game gets you phone numbers, but it doesn’t get you one night stands.
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The more action-oriented and energetic your dates, the more things you will have to talk about on each successive date. The unpredictable stimulus of these kinds of dates serves to bond her more closely to you.
wait, jack traven was wrong?
damn you.
where were you in ’94?
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Doesn’t having drinks at your place and heavy making out on the third date, but not getting sex on that date, mean that a mistake was made at some point in the date?
If I had a girl at my place for a date and heavy making out was involved, but did not lead to sex, I would assume that I did something wrong that prevented sex from happening. If she was ok being in my place and making out with me, I would assume she was open to having sex with me. Is this a wrong assumption?
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Ben that would be a wrong assumption because that’s how accidental rape happens.
But for real if you’re interested in her as long term material then you won’t force the sex issue right away. Even if you can sometimes holding out turns girls on even more especially if you have the chance to hit and you don’t
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Wait, there’s indoor go-kart racing in Virginia? Where the hell is that? And interestedparty, i have three words of advice for you: lower your standards, you’ll thank me later.
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Stop the nonsense. Your article is pure BULLSHIT.
You are basically saying “special” girls need “special” treatment and that you need to impress girls with go-kart races and walks in the motherfucking woods in order to get a girlfriend??!!! BULLSHIT. Is this a “dating for high school” guide???
Every girl needs the same thing: hot sex. Hot sex creates a deep physiological and psychological bond.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
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I was surprised by this one too.
In all things, an appearance of effortlessness is key, and creative dates, done wrong, communicate “I’m trying too hard.”
If a girl is special, then even ordinary things like going to a zoo are memorable. Also, if you both have great chemistry, ideas for unusual or creative things to do somehow come out of thin air.
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I strongly suspect Roissy is not an alpha male. Alpha males are too busy starting companies/climbing Everest/directing movies to spend this much time writing blogs.
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Morgan, I’ve often thought that myself.
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No sex until date five? Huh. Unless she gave you road head at the go-kart track, that seems an overlong timeline.
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lol
so solid game is dating girls just like every fucking guy who ever bothers to ask one does.
what is the point of openers and all that faggage if you date a girl for 2 weeks to fuck, just get her out and she’ll fuck you if she likes you enough to date you 10 times anyway.
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Wait, there’s indoor go-kart racing in Virginia?
sterling, va. i don’t want to give away the name and expose one of my most productive date venues.
Hot sex creates a deep physiological and psychological bond.
true.
i didn’t say you should abandon the fundamentals. and this is not a recipe for getting a girl into bed. it’s a strategy for solidifying your odds of turning your date into a long term girlfriend. shared experiences that step outside the typical dating box build tighter bonds.
the trick of course is to not look like you are trying hard to impress her. but this is not a problem if she inspires you to creativity. when you *want* to take her on crazy adventures because you love her company you’ll look like you are enjoying yourself and you’ll be comfortable in your skin. she will soak up that good vibe.
btw, none of this means you have to spend a lot of money. a window shopping excursion around georgetown role playing with consignment shop clothes can be just as much of a fun adventure as any of the things i listed in this post.
girls are not dumb. they know when a guy puts in that extra effort… when he steps up the energy level… he is inspired by her.
also, if you are always at a loss for things to talk about on day2s and day3s then action-oriented dates help to give you plenty of conversational material.
Alpha males are too busy starting companies/climbing Everest/directing movies to spend this much time writing blogs.
it’s a fun hobby.
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Try this For an early to mid-progression date:
Make a picnic lunch with all kinds of little odds and ends and a couple of good bottles of wine. A nice walk to a spot with a good vista. Eat on a blanket and perhaps enjoy a short nap in dappled sunlight. This works well, can be low cost and leaves the evening free for come what may.
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Hmmm…”short term fling” or “long term girlfriend”. So many choices and so hard to choose between two such exciting options.
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Well my strategy is to build an emotional structure as vast as the interconnecting tunnels of the Vietcong and delay sex until I’m absolutely certain she’s not a tranny. Wait, what?
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12 roissy “the trick of course is to not look like you are trying hard to impress her.”
Have you ever done anything spontaneously in your entire life? Or is that for dweebs, nerds, and the asexual? Wait, I answered my own question.
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I’m always impressed by guys who come up with creative dates. So many men expect their girlfriends to do all the work in picking restaurants, making plans, etc. I’m really amused here, because this is the first post Roissy has written that would help a guy score a girlfriend like me, vs. a clubby-type girl.
One of the things that attracted me to my current boyfriend is that he’d do his homework and float a few options my way, instead of “I dunno, what do you wanna do?” Effort and forethought are gentlemanly, and win major points with me.
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anon if a girl is just dating you got the right answer
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Allsports Grand Prix 45915 Maries Rd, Sterling, VA, 20166.
Tel: 571-434-9566 Fax: 571-434-9570
http://www.allsportsgp.com/
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— “it’s a strategy for solidifying your odds of turning your date into a long term girlfriend… this is not a problem if she inspires you to creativity… they know when a guy puts in that extra effort… when he steps up the energy level… he is inspired by her.”
This is exactly why your post is SHIT. Your underlying message is:
If you like her, you will be inspired to higher levels of “creativity” and INVEST “extra effort” in IMPRESSING her, and she will magically “soak up the vibe” and become your girlfriend, happily ever after.
How is this different from the message in some BULLSHIT chick-flick romance?
If a girl “inspires” me, I wanna rip her clothes off and sex her ASAP. When you properly sex a girl, there should be NO problem in turning her into a girlfriend. The point at which a girl becomes your girlfriend, if you so CHOOSE, is when she is lying in bed, sore, unable to walk, semi-comatose, and basking in the afterglow of sex.
(And sex should ALWAYS happen on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd date. Otherwise, you are go-karting or engaging in highschool type BULLSHIT designed to AVOID/EXCUSE sex).
SHE should be wondering about how to keep YOU around if you sex her properly. If the thought of “How do I make her my girlfriend” ever pops into your head, you’re toast.
— “also, if you are always at a loss for things to talk about on day2s and day3s then action-oriented dates help to give you plenty of conversational material.”
Again, you are using dating activities to IMPRESS her into fucking you. That is LAME. Who cares if you can impress with your knowledge about Hillary/Obama and universal healthcare??!!
The point is that you should be a cool enough SUPASTAR guy that you can make the LEAST amount of effort needed. Fuck everything else.
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20 anon
“The point is that you should be a cool enough SUPASTAR guy that you can make the LEAST amount of effort needed. Fuck everything else.”
OMG I’m getting so wet just reading your comments here. What a man, what a stud, what a dick.
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If you like her, you will be inspired to higher levels of “creativity” and INVEST “extra effort” in IMPRESSING her, and she will magically “soak up the vibe” and become your girlfriend, happily ever after.
that message is so underlying it’s not even close to what was my point:
dates with an extra emphasis on creativity and fun experiences (as opposed to chit chat over drinks) will improve a guy’s odds of turning the girl into an emotionally bonded girlfriend. it’s not necessary to do these things to secure a girlfriend, but it helps. and when you are with a girl you really like it won’t feel like work to take her on adventures with you. it’ll come naturally.
obviously you don’t want to do this with girls who aren’t yet into you. then, yes, it will look like you’re trying too hard.
How is this different from the message in some BULLSHIT chick-flick romance?
the difference is that i’m not advocating trying to woo a noncommittal girl with grand expressions of romantic interest. she should be physically escalating with you every step of the way, including sex. the positive feeback will fuel the forward momentum.
If a girl “inspires” me, I wanna rip her clothes off and sex her ASAP.
no argument there.
When you properly sex a girl, there should be NO problem in turning her into a girlfriend.
i disagree. you can give a girl multiple squirting orgasms but if there isn’t a solid emotional bond she will find it easier to leave the relationship if she decides it isn’t right for her.
The point at which a girl becomes your girlfriend, if you so CHOOSE, is when she is lying in bed, sore, unable to walk, semi-comatose, and basking in the afterglow of sex.
those things are necessary but not sufficient.
And sex should ALWAYS happen on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd date.
too constraining. i agree that men should always shoot for a day3 fuck close as a matter of principle, but it isn’t a rule that should be etched in stone. occasionally you’ll date a girl who is obviously into you but won’t give it up until the 4th or 5th date. is it the smart move to toss her aside just because she happens to be an outlier who needs a couple extra dates to feel comfortable fucking you?
SHE should be wondering about how to keep YOU around if you sex her properly.
she’ll wonder even more if you emotionally bond with her properly.
If the thought of “How do I make her my girlfriend” ever pops into your head, you’re toast.
many thoughts pop into my head, like “how soon can i get this girl to take it up the poop chute?” the goal is to make sure your behavior stays consistent with a man who has options. arranging a number of creatively exciting dates is not evidence of a needy man without options. done right, it can set a girl’s heart on fire for you.
btw, “exciting dates” != dinner and a movie.
Again, you are using dating activities to IMPRESS her into fucking you.
no, i’m saying these types of dates will make it easier to build a positive vibe through shared experience.
look, i’d love to just sit back and do no IMPRESSING at all and have the chicks’ mouths fall onto my cock, but reality doesn’t work that way. everything you do as a man — whether it’s cocky/funny, storytelling, disqualification, body language, push/pull, venue changes — is a form of impressing the girl. yes, even natural alphas have to BUST A MOVE to get laid.
The point is that you should be a cool enough SUPASTAR guy that you can make the LEAST amount of effort needed.
sometimes when you really dig the girl it doesn’t feel like effort at all.
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sometimes i read these posts and wonder one thing:
are you actually capable of love?
because it sounds like zero of the women you’ve written about have loved you. and it’s no wonder, because you don’t believe in unconditional love.
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23 rina to roissy
“sometimes i read these posts and wonder one thing:
are you actually capable of love?”
Pardon me for interjecting but real love takes real intelligence; a much higher intelligence than roissy has come close to demonstrating here. In his defense though; what is the percentage of people who attain to real blissful eternal love? The thing that irks me, is roissy is giving advice here that has a snowball’s chance in Hell of attaining anything beyond the mundane, pedestrian, miserable state many like to CALL love and has no real resemblance or is so fleeting as to be not worth mentioning. He needs to drop his gigantic ego for 5 minutes and realize that 99% of what he KNOWS is bullshit.
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lovely rina chastised:
are you actually capable of love?
only love can kill the demon.
because it sounds like zero of the women you’ve written about have loved you.
i have written about a tiny fraction of the women in my life on this forum. let’s face it, the best stories come from those fly by night flings.
or: goop alert in full effect!
because you don’t believe in unconditional love.
it’s not a question of belief, but of fact. nothing in life is unconditional. even a dog will stop loving you if you beat it enough.
but knowing this doesn’t stop me from believing in love as the transcendent expression of pleasure in this world. promises of heaven itself couldn’t tempt me to turn my back on love.
secretly inside, you know this about me, but are afraid to admit it to yourself.
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sweep the leg, Roissy!
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the thing is, you have a big, big demon inside of you. other people do not. they do not need to kill the demon, because the demon does not exist. or doesn’t manifest itself as much as yours does.
what percentage of people do you love? of men? of women?
when you love few, you will be loved by few.
when you love many, you will be loved by many.
the people i know who do not love anyone have never been loved by anyone. this is why it makes me so doubtful that you are capable of it. or…at least you online personality is incapable of it! i only have that to go by.
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Alpha males are too busy starting companies/climbing Everest/directing movies to spend this much time writing blogs.
People really overestimate how much time goes into writing blog entries. Unless it’s a review of the scientific lit that I’m doing for Gene Expression, my posts hardly take time at all. You have to be one of those “churn the assignment out at the last moment” types, though.
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27 rina
Roissy IS love, as we all are in essence, but few know how to be what they is. One has to work at not being what one is, but it is difficult as one must drop the childish ego.
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steve lurkel:
sweep the leg, Roissy!
rina gets my velvet glove.
i save the iron fist inside for those i don’t like.
rina:
the thing is, you have a big, big demon inside of you. other people do not.
they do.
they just choose to dress it up in chiffon dresses and poppin’ lip gloss.
or doesn’t manifest itself as much as yours does.
manifest bestiary.
what percentage of people do you love? of men? of women?
romantic love? zero men.
the number of women i love is stored in coruscant vaults.
when you love few, you will be loved by few.
quality over quantity.
when you love many, you will be loved by many.
so you’re OK with polyamory?
the people i know who do not love anyone have never been loved by anyone.
do you agree that it is possible to love unconditionally and still never be loved by anyone?
this is why it makes me so doubtful that you are capable of it.
thomas wept.
at least you online personality is incapable of it! i only have that to go by.
i have discussed love here before. you know this. but since this is a playground of id i talk about that more.
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“Roissy IS love, as we all are in essence, but few know how to be what they is. One has to work at not being what one is, but it is difficult as one must drop the childish ego.”
I’d need a flashlight and some galoshes to wade through that one. In other words, huh?
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You choose to believe that everyone’s bad side is as bad as yours. You are wrong. This is where we will always disagree. My vibes are pale-green.
I am OK with polyamory. I never said I wasn’t. Most of us are polyamorous even if we’re sexing one person at a time. My exes are not assholes. I truly love them…the love has just mutated.
do you agree that it is possible to love unconditionally and still never be loved by anyone?
no. if you give love, you will always receive it. just don’t be so choosy of who is giving it back.
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“so you’re OK with polyamory?”
These days, really, who isn’t?
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31 Shannon
“I’d need a flashlight and some galoshes to wade through that one. In other words, huh?”
First let me say I am delighted to be your alter ego. Second this “we are love in essence” is rather hard to explain in a few boggy bloggy sound bites or even a long drawn out tiresome essay, which is why I make light of it with the Puppetji vid. Did you see it? LOL If I post this link again roissy may puke or permanently ban me from the site (that would be a relief actually as I lack self discipline), so here it goes. It explains all, but I have no expectations that you will suddenly toss your galoshes or flashlight.
http://www.abraham-hicks.com
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SHANNON!
Before you get all cynical about the site (hehe) watch the second vid on the “out of the ordinary” Alaskan cruise. To ME that is an awesome part of a dream life and I don’t even like boats. Talk about alpha’s or rather quality men! I am GOING on one of those cruises.
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#32 rina
if you give love, you will always receive it.
That’s sweet, but it’s incorrect. Else the term “unrequited love” would not exist.
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of course it is correct.
you’re assuming that if you love a specific individual, he or she must love you back. that’s not what i’m saying. i’m saying that if you’re a major dickwad who only cares about himself, no one will love you. they may lust you, but not love you. if you are a major dickwad who only cares about himself but then occasionally falls for a pretty lady, do not expect her to love you back. the odds are low. the more pretty ladies you actually are open to loving and being kind to, the higher the chance that ONE OR A FEW of them will love you.
i know that seems to negate everything roissy says, but it does. roissy disfigures the beauty of ‘love’ in many of his posts.
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The heavily concentrated dopamine rush induced by good sex obviously anchors a woman to a man.. In general, you anchor people by implanting seeds of good feelings in them so as to tether them to you. But not only are you a fool and an idiot if you equate that singular feeling to the melange of emotions that lead to attachment, you are also mising out.
I’m not gonna lie, I think lust is probably the major component of romantic attraction. More in guys than in girls.. But good sex can only go so far in releasing the bonding chemicals that create different degrees of attachment than lust.. like loyalty, trust, or affection..
This is why creating colorful “high energy” experiences that encompass a wide range of stimula works similarly to time compression.. it anchors the chick on multiple levels.
This definitely also applies to one night stands.. it’s definitely much easier to achieve the lay if you venue change a couple times after meeting her. From the club go to a bar to checkers to a friends to the park to the bed. Elicit rich emotions..
PS Rina I have definitely dealt with this demon inside and frankly, I love it! And stop prying for the big man’s attention with semi-intelligent forays on his character.. If you really want to show him TRUE love so badly I suggest you take a step and give him your number
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38 Abhs
“The heavily concentrated dopamine rush induced by good sex obviously anchors a woman to a man”
And ANCHOR it is, dear Abhs!!! There is nothing quite like offloading an anchor to make one feel as light as a spring breeze.
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12 roissy “the trick of course is to not look like you are trying hard to impress her
I love it when a man turns over backwards for me.
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Anon is clowning you, Roissy. It’s kind of nuts that you can’t see the parody.
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Anon is clowning you, Roissy.
there’s always a chance any one commenter is clowning me. but since i respond mostly for my own amusement and the crowd’s entertainment it isn’t something i concern myself with.
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The two topics are general concepts that are easily understood by an experienced “Alpha” as you would say. If you don’t get what Roissy is getting at… well then I guess we know where you are.
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This post struck me as so un-Roissy I thought it was a belated April Fool’s joke. Rather than address it, I wanna give my impressions of checking out some profiles of Active White Women on Match.com.
These profiles list things they like to do as hiking, snorkeling, skydiving, bike riding. Who the fuck likes to do this shit after about age 33? My thoughts were “Yeah, right. I’m gonna risk broken ankles to get sex. Instead I’ll get on Yahoo Messenger, meet a hottie who needs attention, spend no money, get laid.” What the hell is up with white women that they need to be taken fucking roller skating like middle schoolers?
I recommend the latter. It’s cheaper and safer. And by the way, the way to get a woman hooked on you is not minature golf and skiing. It’s endless hours of intense, late-nite phone (emotional, not sexual) talk, then refusing to see her.
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It’s endless hours of intense, late-nite phone (emotional, not sexual) talk, then refusing to see her.
Wow, that’s frighteningly insightful. Exactly what my husband did when I first met him. He had me totally addicted to talking to him, online and on the phone, then refused to see me because I was too young (well, I mean, he was afraid of getting the feds on his ass). He had the most amazing voice through the phone. I still get all mushy thinking about it.
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What the hell is up with white women that they need to be taken fucking roller skating like middle schoolers
I am not white but I like a few of those things.
maybe so many women are into those things because they think that is what men like.
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I’m still trying to figure out why Chic Noir ^^^^^ changed her profile pic to Iggy Pop.
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@rina
“no. if you give love, you will always receive it. just don’t be so choosy of who is giving it back.”
I disagree. When it comes to serious relationships, you have to be VERY serious about who you give love to.
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love is letting your opponent win at scrabble…
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@44 Days of Broken Arrows
“It’s endless hours of intense, late-nite phone (emotional, not sexual) talk…”
WHO has time for this crap? OK, perhaps for a VERY special woman, but this is horrible general advice… unless you actually enjoy this type of thing.
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#37 rina
you’re assuming that if you love a specific individual, he or she must love you back. that’s not what i’m saying. i’m saying that if you’re a major dickwad who only cares about himself, no one will love you. they may lust you, but not love you. if you are a major dickwad who only cares about himself but then occasionally falls for a pretty lady, do not expect her to love you back.
If this is what you meant in your initial post, why didn’t you say this instead of offering the greeting-card sentiment I quoted? We’re not mind-readers.
And anyway, you’re using circular reasoning here. You’re defining love as something that can never happen to a “dickwad,” and then using that definition to show that, well, it could never happen to a dickwad. That’s pretty convenient.
the odds are low. the more pretty ladies you actually are open to loving and being kind to, the higher the chance that ONE OR A FEW of them will love you.
Am I reading this right? You’re basically endorsing the player ideal of a harem of women when you say “a few of them.”
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oh is any of this really logical?
🙂
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Interested Party said to moi:
“It’s endless hours of intense, late-nite phone (emotional, not sexual) talk…”
“WHO has time for this crap? OK, perhaps for a VERY special woman, but this is horrible general advice… unless you actually enjoy this type of thing.”
Yeah, I do. I like just getting to know women. I find them interesting. I probably find it more interesting than actually having sex with ’em. So sue me.
There are all sorts of people in the world that don’t get listened to. If you lend an ear, you’d be surprised how a relationship can develop.
My props to Hope’s husband. Bravo!
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@53 Days of Broken Arrows
“Yeah, I do. I like just getting to know women. I find them interesting. I probably find it more interesting than actually having sex with ‘em. So sue me.”
I know this is (subconsciously) meant to make me look like the bad guy and you the good guy. That’s cool. I’m going to come off as an asshole, but I’m really not.
But here’s what I think about the whole hours of intense, non-sexual *phone conversations* between a heterosexual male and female – the guy really has nothing else going for himself. No great job. No great aspirations. No other women. The female he’s talking to is the only thing in his life.
If the woman is a steady girlfriend/wife/best-friend-since- childhood, that’s one thing. If not…
I see what’s in it for women (attention). Ain’t nothing in it for a single, hetero guy with a life. (Women know this subconsciously too btw).
Yes, I realize this makes me an asshole, but what can you do? 🙂
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What about those of us who hate to talk on the phone? Like me? I think I’d go nuts with boredom if a guy called me all the time.
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whole hours of intense, non-sexual *phone conversations* between a heterosexual male and female
What makes you think it’s all non-sexual? For a woman, emotional is sexual. When she gets emotionally attached to an unattainable goal she gets incredibly turned on, by the fantasy itself as well as the neurochemicals. So when the guy finally does turn up she’s already quivering from all the tension and anticipation.
DOBA’s suggestion can succeed even better than game because she’s totally defenseless against the emotional talk. When she’s got all those chemicals swirling about her brain she is in a state of temporary insanity. Talking for hours with a guy has worked a number on my sex drive more times than I’d like to admit.
Ain’t nothing in it for a single, hetero guy with a life.
A man who’s an excellent conversationalist will not go without a woman who wants to get in his pants, regardless of his status in life.
What about those of us who hate to talk on the phone? Like me?
I hate talking on the phone, too. But I always made time for guys I felt things for, and sometimes it leads to phone sex which is fun, too.
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@56 Hope
“What makes you think it’s all non-sexual?”
Days of Broken Arrows specifically used the word “non sexual”.
“A man who’s an excellent conversationalist will not go without a woman who wants to get in his pants, regardless of his status in life.”
I agree that excellent conversation skills are a great benefit. But if a guy is on the phone with you 3 hours a night talking about…god knows what non-sexual topics, that’s not a good thing (for him). This means he has NOTHING going on in his life.
Again, I’m speaking for myself here, but I’ve met several women who are like this. I’m simply too busy to devote this type of talk time to someone who’s not my wife/steady-gf/best friend/etc.
And once again, I know what’s in it for the women (attention). Ain’t nothing in it for a guy with a life. That’s my main point.
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56 Hope
“When she gets emotionally attached to an unattainable goal she gets incredibly turned on,”
You say eventually the perceived as “unattainable” does finally show up, but taken a step further being emotionally attached to a truly unattainable goal is romantic illness, and is as common as neurosis itself. Does she really need to feel it is “unattainable” to get turned on? I think if that’s the case and she does “attain” she will place way too much value on the man who is the object of her angst.
44 DOBA
“It’s endless hours of intense, late-nite phone (emotional, not sexual) talk, then refusing to see her.”
Hope you said in response:
“Wow, that’s frighteningly insightful. Exactly what my husband did when I first met him. He had me totally addicted to talking to him, online and on the phone, then refused to see me because I was too young..”
.. “DOBA’s suggestion can succeed even better than game because she’s totally defenseless against the emotional talk.”
The two situations are entirely different. In your situation your husband was being completely honest. It was a realistic concern on his part. But then you go on to validate DOBA’s using it as a manipulative strategy. WTF???? He is an asshole and your husband obviously is not. Context is–or should be–a huge consideration here. Judging from DOBA’s comments I’d rather sow it shut than have sex with him…your husband on the other hand. 🙂
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But if a guy is on the phone with you 3 hours a night talking about…god knows what non-sexual topics, that’s not a good thing (for him). This means he has NOTHING going on in his life.
But you’re on this blog for at least some time. It doesn’t really mean you have “nothing” going on in your life, does it? More likely, it means that you’re interested in these topics. If a man prefers talking to woman, that might just mean he’s not into sports or typical male subjects. Then he shoots two birds with one stone by getting to talk about his topics of choice and getting a woman more interested in him.
I’m simply too busy to devote this type of talk time to someone who’s not my wife/steady-gf/best friend/etc.
I agree that it’s impossible to keep this up. However, when people first meet each other there’s a new relationship energy that makes connecting fun and rewarding. I do this when I meet a new female friend who is interesting and engaging. We’ll talk for hours on end at first, and then the conversations taper off to a few minutes per day.
With a man and a woman, it can easily translate into sex if the guy just puts in some extra hours of conversation time in the beginning. It’s not like he’s spending money on her or losing out on a lot of fun on a week night. A single guy, even if he has a life, still makes time for finding girls. Unless he works 80 hour weeks, of course.
Besides that, I think DOBA was actually stating this in terms of the “long term girlfriend” scenario, suggesting that doing high-adrenaline stuff is not as emotionally bonding or even as erotically thrilling for a woman as deep conversations.
http://www.myramcelhaney.com/articles/Womens_networking_article-AJC-6-29-07.doc.htm
This article seems to back up his opinion. Men bond more over shared activities like golf, video games, watching sports or fishing. Women bond over talking and finding commonalities, and they generally talk more than men do while doing other activities together. Therefore a man who wants to get a woman to bond strongly to him has to communicate with her frequently, especially at the beginning.
Conversely, it would seem that a woman who wants a man to bond to her should pick up activities he loves and do them with him (not just sex, but things like shooting pool). This makes a bit of sense in the hunter-gatherer way as men used to go out hunting and barely spoke to each other so as to not scare away the game, but they develop a great deal of group cohesion through shared activities.
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DOBA
Okay, maybe you are not a complete asshole, but you’re pretending to be one here. Why the macho posturing? Later on you say you like to lend an ear because it is rare. (True) Do you then “refuse” to see them to get them turned on? If that is the case you’re a common manipulator. If you’re just doing the “heart of stone” routine it’s sick AND effective only because many women are rather emotionally ill if you haven’t noticed.
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Candy,
No you had it right the first time. I’m sort of an asshole.
The difference is that I’m not an asshole who hits and runs. I’d rather just get to know a woman, then split, rather than have sex with her then split.
The difference between me and Roissy is that he does it in person. And it’s not technically gaming with me because I’m not trying to achieve any goal.
I once read a book by Andy Warhol called “Popism: The Warhol Sixties.” In it, he comes off as the type of character who would rather hear about people’s relationship than actually have relationships. Or sex. That’s me, except unlike Warhol I’m not gay. Once reason for this is the opposite of what Instant Excitement says: I have a great job and life; I just don’t want anyone in it.
I discovered my phone “technique” accidentally by the way: In high school I’d spend hours on the phone with girls pre-driver’s license. I discovered they’d be attached to me, to my surprise. I just never grew out of being 15.
It’s all downhill once everyone gets driver’s licenses, people.
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In your situation your husband was being completely honest. It was a realistic concern on his part. But then you go on to validate DOBA’s using it as a manipulative strategy. WTF???? He is an asshole and your husband obviously is not.
My husband was a very witty speaker and a great conversationalist, and so he easily got plenty of interested women. He used these very same strategies on women before and after he met me — and he did the same thing to me. We just happened to have a great connection as soon as we started talking.
It sounded to me like DOBA knows what he likes in his women, likes talking to them, and even values women for more than mere looks. Why should I judge him for that? I prefer this strategy for men more because the woman also gets emotional satisfaction from it.
I also don’t believe that just because someone causes negative emotion, that person is automatically an asshole. We all manipulate — I do it, too. But there’s a definite difference between sociopath-style manipulation and subtle maneuvering that can end well for both sides.
Men and women who are versed in seduction have derived pleasure from the act of doing so, but they also bring pleasure to those whom they seduce. Perhaps they also cause pain afterwards, but sometimes negativity is necessary for personal growth.
I think if that’s the case and she does “attain” she will place way too much value on the man who is the object of her angst.
I was in agony for several years over my husband sleeping with other women after we stopped talking. Maybe I did place “too much value” on him, but I think we all tend to treasure our loves. He was just trying to meet the right girl, and since I was too young and too far away at that time to be in a relationship with him, I can’t really blame him for trying again after me.
There was of course always the chance we weren’t going to work out, but love is a high stakes gamble. We place our bets, and hope for the best.
It’s all downhill once everyone gets driver’s licenses, people.
I never got a driver’s license.
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Hope said:
“It sounded to me like DOBA knows what he likes in his women, likes talking to them, and even values women for more than mere looks. Why should I judge him for that?”
Oh God, you’re right. I never thought of it that way! Maybe I’m not such an asshole after all. Plus, I’m not making promises to any women. And also, a lot of the time, I’ll talk to women who simply need someone to talk to. And I don’t capitalize on their angst by hitting them up for sex when they’re vulverable.
I was kidding about the driver’s license thing. I like to throw in ridiculous tag lines for effect.
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Ok,
Let’s say I really like this girl and I want to get married to her ( Hell no) but It had happened to me. Give her the royal treatment , and much more. Then and only then send her to hell for a minor mistake she has done.
You will always have a booty call on your phone…ALWAYS Never fail.
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64 jesusbracho
I have the feeling you’re not kidding. Many people really are that sick:
Her, for being ignorant of what a pig you really are.
You, for being a sadistic fuck.
Yes, dear jesusbracho, the world has become a giant madhouse and because so many are just as insane as you, few notice. 🙂
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there’s always a chance any one commenter is clowning me. but since i respond mostly for my own amusement and the crowd’s entertainment it isn’t something i concern myself with.
That’s fair. I’m just saying there’s some merit to the parody. Although I enjoy reading your blog, it is pretty incessantly misogynistic and over-the-top with the value it places on sexual conquest. You’ve made a LOT of posts that are only slightly less hyperbolic than Anon’s there, so when you admit that you do have some romantic interests – the kind you’re willing to sacrifice or exert yourself for – you’re fair game to be called on some of that hypocrisy.
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44 DOBA
I had a male friend whom I would talk to on the phone at least 3 times a week for hours. We did this for a few years and saw each other off and on, on a casual basis. He wanted to “take it to the next level”. I should have followed my instincts, but followed my heart instead as I loved him, but the chemistry was not really there for me. So you do the right thing by not leading women on.
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I’m changing my name to what I don’t know. Someone is impersonating me, and they can have my name, because I’m tired of it, and it doesn’t suit me, and this is as good a time as any for a change, so whomever you are, please enjoy it for as long as you like.
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[…] wrote before about planning creative dates if you want to build a stronger emotional bond with a girl. The circus definitely fits that bill, […]
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