I don’t think people realize just how much condoms and the pill have altered human sexual behavior. To prove this, let’s examine the sexual history of the average alpha male with a healthy sex drive:
10 partners per year.
approximately 1.5 copulations per day for ~545 copulations per year.
about 55 copulations per partner.
Now of course none of this matters in the era of contraception since the odds of him getting any of these girls accidentally pregnant is near zero, assuming he is strict in his adherence to protecting himself from baby blackmail and the girl is not lying about being on the pill. Most guys, especially alphas who have high risk temperaments, aren’t that self-disciplined and get sloppy once in a while and blast inside, so the chance of fertilization is a little higher than zero. It’s probably more like an elevated risk of conception for 1% of the yearly 545 copulations, or 6 copulations randomly distributed have a better than zero chance of turning into 18 years of living hell. Extrapolating outward 10 years, the average alpha male would wind up with one unwanted child. Abortion being the cure for what ails ya, even that unlikely scenario wouldn’t come to fruition.
What are the consequences in a pre-contraceptive world? Using the copulation numbers above and assuming the same high risk and sloppy behavior of the average alpha, a girl who didn’t have access to the pill or abortion and a guy who didn’t have regular access to a reliable condom (which was the case for most of human history) would run a much higher risk of accidental pregnancy. Let’s say he pulls out successfully 80% of the time and the remaining 20% of copulations he isn’t fast enough and a little of his juice spills inside her. Of that high risk 20% (109 copulatory events) 5% result in conception. That’s 5 unwanted pregnancies per year, folks, spread out over five different partners.
If you don’t think that massively transformed risk-reward structure would have any effect on human behavior you are living in a fantasyland. Pre-contraception, women were probably more chaste and permitted internal blasts primarily with provider betas they could be sure wouldn’t leave them in case of pregnancy. Men, for their part, were less likely to pump and dump in favor of winning over these chaste girls with displays of resources. Alpha males still scored better than average amounts of pussy, but the sexual playing field was more level. With abortion, the pill, and ribbed condoms women exercised their liberation from reproductive consequence by rewarding the caddish alpha males with more sex than they knew what to do with.
The pill has been the beta’s worst enemy.
I made a rough calculation in my head how many kids I would have if contraceptives didn’t exist. The number is sobering. At least 125 mini-mes would be roaming the plains of America, and France, today. Luckily, I only have to spend a few hours each year visiting my nieces and nephews, which is a level of commitment that suits me well.
The benefits of motherhood are lost on todays modern immature women because of contraception and men like you, roissy, never have to grow up for the same reason. Americans in general are finding it less and less attractive to have children. They don’t want the demands on their body, time, emotions, wallets, and sex lives. In order to know the rewards of having children, one must have children. In essence those populations procreating the most will take over the world eventually, not that they are any better equiped just because they have children. Countries like Mexico and India that still have lots of children, are basically having too many children.
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Life being an arms race on every front, the Betas also have a new friend: the do-it-yourself paternity tests, coming soon to a drug store near you.
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Ah, back to normal. That’s a relief. Of sorts. One thing — why ribbed condoms? Do you really need the help?
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As always, Roissy, you’re forgetting that for much of human history, women didn’t have any choice about whether they slept with a man or didn’t. So they had sex when they didn’t want to with men they didn’t want; or they were unable to have sex with the men they wanted; or variations on that theme. Did you see the movie, The Pearl Earring (it starred Scarlett Johansson so you might have)? The heroine, a maidservant, knows the master has an eye to her; even if she wants to say no, which isn’t clear, she isn’t really free to refuse him either – he could always hire someone else more willing. But she’d also get fired if she were to get pregnant. So she allows her boyfriend to have sex with her at just the moment when she thinks her master may start to make advances, as insurance. It’s not a matter of preferring beta providers, it’s survival. That was life in the old days for women.
And just so no one thinks I’m being unfair, men weren’t that much freer in their sexual behaviour in most cultures and at most times. They got the wife they could afford (in countries where “bride price”, rather than a dowry from the wife’s family, was customary); or they got a girl pregnant and were forced to marry her; or they resorted to prostitutes. If they were rich, they could afford mistresses “for love” without too much difficulty, but a mistress was expensive – and they didn’t get to choose their wives, either.
I’m not exactly disagreeing with you; just trying to put perspective into male self-pity…
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Gosh, this is just so…romantic. I got wet just reading it.
For real though, what’s the point if you aren’t going to blast inside? If having cum covered sheets is the consequence of having sex, I’m sorry, copulations, 545 times a year, I will keep my sex life the way it is. I hate doing laundry.
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I can’t stand the pill.
It also leads to potentially bad mate selection on the female’s part.
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How many bushels of oysters do you have to eat to be able to manage 545 copulations per year?
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Hope, I also remember reading that Women who never have a man “blast inside” are more likely to suffer from depression as compared to women who do have men cum inside them.
Interesting stuff.
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545 times a year? That seems like a lot, but you can always ask DA if he can do it that much and use the response as a benchmark.
While what you say is true, at the same time let’s remember that several million years of evolution is not about to be overturned by 50-60 years of technology. Even though they are “free”, women still are pretty circumspect regarding choice of partners.
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http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/markpita.shtml
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Where do I sign up for the blast inside?
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Damn, you’re like officially my dream girl with a line like that.
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Yeah this has changed a lot. However, alias you are overestimating, perhaps, how much of that happened. Contraception is as old as prostitution. The ancient egyptians used a plant as birth control. They used it so much that it’s now extinct.
The only thing that has changed is that today’s BC is almost 100% effective.
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alias:
As always, Roissy, you’re forgetting that for much of human history, women didn’t have any choice about whether they slept with a man or didn’t.
alias, all evo biologists agree that women are the choosers and men the chosen. i doubt the exception you wrote about was the rule for the majority of human history. we have genetic studies backing this up — 80% of women passed on their dna while only 40% of men did the same. now we have a situation where prophylactic freedom from pregnancy is allowing women to act largely on their cad desires to the detriment of their dad desires. i agree with sestamibi that human nature over millions of years is fairly immutable in shorter time spans, but the introduction of the pill caused such a ripple to the human miasma that it may very well be speeding up our evolution.
Gosh, this is just so…romantic. I got wet just reading it.
perv!
why ribbed condoms? Do you really need the help?
my penis is naturally ribbed. i am an evolved species.
How many bushels of oysters do you have to eat to be able to manage 545 copulations per year?
i don’t think that’s a whole lot. with enough variety of cute chicks, and health at 100%, i could easily crank out 5 a day every day if they are spaced properly for recharging.
Where do I sign up for the blast inside?
i can be reached through email. jpegs, please.
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To be able to continually “Blast Inside” I believe I would be willing to do the sheets (Ok..so I would just keep buying new ones.) Hey Lemmonex…what color do you prefer?
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“my penis is naturally ribbed. i am an evolved species.”
Herpes isn’t evolution.
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“i don’t think that’s a whole lot. with enough variety of cute chicks, and health at 100%, i could easily crank out 5 a day every day if they are spaced properly for recharging”
What, that’s it?
Old man.
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Herpes isn’t evolution.
spoken like an expert.
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You’re speaking of pre-history (i.e. before written records), Roissy. I was talking about History.
The fact that a relatively small part of a group of males got to pass on its genes in any given society doesn’t automatically mean that it was women who did the choosing in that society. There have been many societies in which rich or powerful men forcibly accumulated a number of wives and concubines – forcibly I emphasize, meaning without the women’s consent – leaving large numbers of men without mates. I don’t know whether it was like that in human pre-history, but it could have been.
Look at herding animals like horses, for example: the most powerful stallions battle for dominance among themselves, and the females wait until this is settled, and go with the winner because he’s there. There isn’t much choosing involved. Something like the same thing happens among many social animals, does it not?
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alias, even if i were to grant that your scenario of women having their mates chosen for them unwillingly was an artifact of History, what happened in the millions of years of pre-history was a lot more important in shaping human nature.
but back to your point, are you really arguing that women are passive receptacles, just waiting around for the winner penis to penetrate them? because this view just doesn’t jibe with what we see around us. women actively *pursue*, in their own indirect womanly ways, the alpha male. women are turned on by male power. fame, wealth, good looks, charisma, leadership… these are the things that if a man possesses them earns him access to more sex than the average man.
it’s a feedback loop, of course, where males are evolved to jockey for the top position amongst other males because they instinctively know that being the alpha male will arouse more females and hence offer them an opportunity to pass on more of their genes.
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Former Alpha: Black please…I like my bed to look like a Pollack.
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Women who never have a man “blast inside” are more likely to suffer from depression as compared to women who do have men cum inside them.
Yes, interesting stuff. Supposedly the chemicals inside the “blast” also work if she swallows.
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At least 125 mini-roissys would be roaming the plains of America, and France, today
Thus confirming my hypothesis that Roissy is French. The poetic language and ugly face confirm my theory. Luckily, my French ancestors were probably better looking than Roissy…
BTW, allegedly, my alpha grandfather allegedly has 25 confirmed children. We lost count after a certain point, and there were some we simply couldn’t confirm…
The pill has been the beta’s worst enemy.
I don’t see how it’s been the worst enemy for beta males. Yes, the alpha males have secured opportunities for sex, but that also means beta males aren’t saddled with kids that they don’t want, and it allows for betas to enjoy some opportunity to have sex at some point.
545 times a year? That seems like a lot, but you can always ask DA if he can do it that much and use the response as a benchmark.
Hmm, alternating days of masturbation with sessions that may have two to three orgasms per attempt…
now we have a situation where prophylactic freedom from pregnancy is allowing women to act largely on their cad desires to the detriment of their dad desires
Does it really matter? Is that so bad? Maybe the betas are just losers with third rate DNA that shouldn’t be passed on…
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Yes, interesting stuff. Supposedly the chemicals inside the “blast” also work if she swallows.
Holy crap, you’re kidding. That is great news.
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No, I’m not arguing that women are merely passive receptacles today, certainly not in the western world. But through much of History they had little choice of their own mate; if women had an influence on mating habits, it was as mothers and mothers-in-law to be that they exercised it.
I mentioned the stallion scenario because I wanted to indicate that even in the animal world, it is possible for females not to do that much active choosing of their mates, and although we can’t know for certain, it is possible that human mating in pre-historic times, as well as in much of recorded history, operated in similar conditions. Aren’t you evo-psycho types always reminding us about what a significant part rape must have had in human reproduction at earlier points in history?
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That is great news.
Actually, maybe that was a different article I read. In any case, I never needed much convincing.
Oh and the puns in the article are hilarious.
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Oops, messed up the link.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/24/1069522535088.html
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Look at herding animals like horses, for example: the most powerful stallions battle for dominance among themselves, and the females wait until this is settled, and go with the winner because he’s there. There isn’t much choosing involved. Something like the same thing happens among many social animals, does it not?
Why not look at seahorses, then? I don’t think it’s fair to compare one species to another. Every species has a distinct mating pattern. Do you really think we’re that evolved that we stray from nature? I always argue no, and that any straying from a mean is just adaptation.
Human females are nearly the same size as human males, indicating that we do lean towards monogamy and that men and women are supposed to be relative equals. Women pursue sex just as much as men, only we have different manners of doing it. So maybe some women have been forced to just take it, but I cannot imagine that this was the majority during History. If you read Roissy’s blog 100 years in the future, would you also assume that every man had this life?
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Roissy,
I agree with what you’ve written but you left out something crucial we’ve discussed before here. The Pill hormonially changes women and causes them to prefer more masculine men than they would otherwise.
Here’s an article titled “The Pill Changes Women’s Taste in Men:” http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2677697.stm
So this is yet another debit for Beta Males. If you add to that the fact that women have become far more masculine in the past few decades and therefore look for manlier men, you have a Beta Male disaster on your hands.
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weirdo head case:
Thus confirming my hypothesis that Roissy is French.
roissy is french; i’m not. there is another reason why i might have kids roaming the plains of france. see if you can figure it out.
The poetic language and ugly face confirm my theory.
you must have me confused with someone else.
Luckily, my French ancestors were probably better looking than Roissy…
judging by your pic you posted here, i doubt it.
I don’t see how it’s been the worst enemy for beta males. Yes, the alpha males have secured opportunities for sex, but that also means beta males aren’t saddled with kids that they don’t want, and it allows for betas to enjoy some opportunity to have sex at some point.
you missed my point entirely. the freedom from accidental pregnancy has allowed women to act on their sexual desire for alphas and ignore their need for provider betas. the balance in the female force has been disrupted by the pill. the betas are getting fewer opportunities to have sex because they cannot capitalize on their traditional strengths of stability and faithfulness in a world of free-wheeling contraceptive sex.
Hmm, alternating days of masturbation with sessions that may have two to three orgasms per attempt…
behold railfan.
Does it really matter? Is that so bad? Maybe the betas are just losers with third rate DNA that shouldn’t be passed on…
in the grand scheme (worm eating and heat death) nothing matters but getting what’s yours and maximizing your happiness. if the environment via the pill changes so much that provider males become losers in the game of love then that is a statement of fact, not a moral judgement. i doubt the family oriented betas have “loser DNA” by any measure of loserness that excludes pump and dump cads.
i know you’re trying to lead us down the DA road of pity party whoring once again but i won’t let you do it this time. you’ll just have to get off on your glorious chodeness in the privacy of your own masturbatorium.
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No, Rina, I wouldn’t assume that every man had Roissy’s life. But my reference to the past encompassed far more than the experience of a few people who wrote books or columns or blogs!
The number of people alive in all the thousands of years of pre-history is said to be very much less than the number of people alive today at one time.
I expect the same would be true even if you went back to the days of the oldest cities – let’s say Ur in 3,000 BC – and compared the earth’s human population at that time to the earth’s total human pop. in pre-history.
That may not mean much in evolutionary terms – but it does mean that it’s silly to speak of human experience as though only our pre-historic experience counted for anything. We have the numeric advantage over our earliest ancestors, if nothing else.
And all the records we have of human marital interactions in the past suggest that in most societies, families – and to a lesser degree the community at large – have chosen mates for their children. The same is still true for many millions of people today in traditional societies.
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The Glorious Natural Pelt rules!
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rina:
So maybe some women have been forced to just take it, but I cannot imagine that this was the majority during History.
yes, and remember, there’s a difference between who a woman was forced to marry or shack up with and who she actually had kids by. it’s all about the genes.
DBA:
The Pill hormonially changes women and causes them to prefer more masculine men than they would otherwise.
that’s true. law school gender balance. the pill. no fault divorce. the evidence is mounting that our society is at a nadir for beta males.
alias:
That may not mean much in evolutionary terms – but it does mean that it’s silly to speak of human experience as though only our pre-historic experience counted for anything.
i don’t think the ancient parts of our brains that regulate sexual desire and functioning changed much in recorded history. sexual reproduction is as old as the hills. that’s not to say that some very important aspects of humanity can’t change in a relatively short period of time (c.f.: ashkenazi IQ).
And all the records we have of human marital interactions in the past suggest that in most societies, families – and to a lesser degree the community at large – have chosen mates for their children.
a good question to ask is how many of the family- and community-chosen mates would have been the same as mates freely chosen had the brides had that option. iow, were families skilled at picking mates for their daughters that the daughters would have picked for themselves anyhow?
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roissy is french; i’m not. there is another reason why i might have kids roaming the plains of france. see if you can figure it out.
Vast wealth or intellectual capability allowing you at some point to educate yourself in a French university for some period of time.
you must have me confused with someone else
No, this is based on the photo of you that was taken at some evening blogger gathering at DC several months ago.
And yes, your fellow blogmates, Roosh and VK are better looking than you…
judging by your pic you posted here, i doubt it
I went from “not ugly” to ugly within a week. I surely have angered Master Roissy with my pathetic and lowly insults. He bleeds from the pebbles thrown by the male peasants…
you missed my point entirely. the freedom from accidental pregnancy has allowed women to act on their sexual desire for alphas and ignore their need for provider betas
But why should I have sex with a woman who only values me for my ability to be a provider beta? I’m definitely an outlier, but if a woman views me as a sperm bank with long-term benefits, then I think she should look somewhere else for that. Maybe it’s better for some of us not to end up in dead, sexless and loveless marriages where we’re only appreciated for bringing home enough money to pay the mortgage and spending time with the kids.
behold railfan
Actually, it’s railfan + roadgeek + blog reader…
Think of all the money you spent on gaming women, and calculate how much money you would have made saving or investing it with a 5% return. Despite not working for the past five years until recently, I have more money saved than my friends who did work and blew their money on women.
i doubt the family oriented betas have “loser DNA” by any measure of loserness that excludes pump and dump cads.
I’m amazed that you’re not deriding the beta males for being losers due to their lack of alpha status. I personally don’t think you give a shit about the betas since as you stated, you’re the main beneficiary of their lowly status.
As far as I’m concerned, if women want alphas, then fuck the lowly betas, and let the free-markets take their course. No bail-outs for betas.
i know you’re trying to lead us down the DA road of pity party whoring once again but i won’t let you do it this time. you’ll just have to get off on your glorious chodeness in the privacy of your own masturbatorium.
I’m not in the mood for a pity-party. I’ll commend you on your restraint and choice to stick with the topic.
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Are you guys aware that you can inpregnate a woman with precome. Its the stuff that comes out before the big final or even prior to being inside for some men. Even if you get it on the outside of the vajayjay, those “things” can still swim. Even if you are going out into the rain for 20 seconds make sure you put on a raincoat because all it takes it one out of millions to reach the egg and then 18 years of hell(if you don’t want to be with that person).
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“a good question to ask is how many of the family- and community-chosen mates would have been the same as mates freely chosen had the brides had that option. iow, were families skilled at picking mates for their daughters that the daughters would have picked for themselves anyhow?”
Depends on the kind of community and the marriage strategies it practised. I doubt that the twelve-year-old girls getting affianced or married right now to men in their 50s in places like Afghanistan really welcome the deal. In India where both sexes tended to be married off very young by their parents, until recently, probably most girls were fairly happy with their parents’ choices. And of course they had different visions of love anyway. But that’s part of the point: that vision of love wasn’t based on being “in love”; in other words, not based on passionate sexual attraction with an emotional component. So whether or not a man was “alpha” enough to turn them on was irrelevant.
And BTW, when your family guards you within an inch of your life, it’s difficult to commit adultery with alpha males if your husband isn’t adequate in that department. Aren’t you reading/watching the news these days? Don’t you hear the stories about forced marriages and child brides coming out of Africa and Asia? Haven’t you paid any attention to what Hope says about her parents’ arranged marriage? (Sorry, Hope.)
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ok let’s stick to the argument. these comments get all sidetracked and illogical after a very short time.
theory: BC has changed mating habits
alias sides with women *usually* did not choose for themselves and roissy says that women *usually* did. where is the proof?
– other animals
– historical records
– arranged marriages
– rates of rape
– current female psychology
– proportion of people who pass on their genes
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@hope comment #22-YUCK!
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Haven’t you paid any attention to what Hope says about her parents’ arranged marriage? (Sorry, Hope.)
Grandparents. My mom chose for herself despite my grandparents’ warnings, and she chose poorly. But I think she really was in love with my dad, an “alpha male” of sorts.
I suppose I should thank him for his genetic contribution. After all, I work in the design field, and he had a lot of artistic talent whereas my mom had none.
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Female choice and male-male competition are not competing hypotheses. Take dancing. Males may compete against each other for “bragging rights,” to lower the other guy’s testosterone by besting him, etc. And females may find it sexy if a guy can cut a little rug.
Or physical combat — many chicks dig it if a guy can beat the shit out of another guy, and beating up another guy is one obvious way to compete against rivals.
Or verbal combat — same as above.
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psychowanker:
Vast wealth or intellectual capability allowing you at some point to educate yourself in a French university for some period of time.
try again.
No, this is based on the photo of you that was taken at some evening blogger gathering at DC several months ago.
there’s no authentic pic of me out there. but if you were to see me in real life i would hardly be surprised if your opinion was at odds with just about everyone who knows me. judging by your unconventional taste in grotesque lantern-jawed horsefaced tranny pornstars it would make sense if your opinion of men’s looks departed radically from the norm.
I went from “not ugly” to ugly within a week.
don’t shift the goalposts. you’re not good-looking but you’re not grossly ugly either based on those pics you linked to in the comments here. my point stands that it’s doubtful your ancestors, if they looked anything like you, were an especially handsome lot. my other meta-point also stands in that it’s not quasimodo looks that is consigning you to a miserable existence of self-imposed celibacy and pity party puling. it’s your mental weakness and incessantly transparent excuse-mongering.
I surely have angered Master Roissy with my pathetic and lowly insults. He bleeds from the pebbles thrown by the male peasants…
how’s that 5 terabyte tranny porno collection working out for you? servers whirring up for one more go-round before mom calls you to dinner?
But why should I have sex with a woman who only values me for my ability to be a provider beta?
didn’t you say you work at a call center for $10 an hour? i don’t think you have to worry about being valued for your ability to be a provider beta.
if a woman views me as a sperm bank with long-term benefits, then I think she should look somewhere else for that.
everybody has to bring something to the table. it’s not called the sexual market for no reason. you’re not a special little snowflake exempt from the realities of human nature.
Maybe it’s better for some of us not to end up in dead, sexless and loveless marriages where we’re only appreciated for bringing home enough money to pay the mortgage and spending time with the kids.
is your woman-less misery easier to swallow if you keep telling yourself that marriage is a one way ticket to a sexless and loveless life?
i’ll tell you what, why don’t you start with dating first, before lapsing into treatises on reasons not to get married.
baby steps, DA, baby steps.
Think of all the money you spent on gaming women,
if you’re asking me whether i would trade all the love and sex with beautiful women i’ve had in my life in return for investing the money saved on drinks with them for a small profit, the answer is no.
if you need to know why that is, then you are farther gone off the deep end than i originally thought.
Despite not working for the past five years until recently, I have more money saved than my friends who did work and blew their money on women.
the lord god shines his light upon you, child. your sacrifice has earned you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.
question. who’s happier:
a. the guy who blows all his money but gets laid constantly
b. the loveless celibate miser?
I’m amazed that you’re not deriding the beta males for being losers due to their lack of alpha status.
i tell it like is. the pill has helped usher in an era of sexual cornucopia for those men who know how to turn women on, and has made it tougher on those men who rely on the traditional methods for wooing women.
I personally don’t think you give a shit about the betas since as you stated, you’re the main beneficiary of their lowly status.
i don’t give a shit about anybody except my friends, family, and lovers, and this makes me no different than anyone else. i don’t need low status betas to personally benefit with women. all i need is belief in myself and confidence, something with which you have demonstrated a painfully obvious shortcoming.
I’m not in the mood for a pity-party. I’ll commend you on your restraint and choice to stick with the topic.
restraint? funny, just a few lines above you were gloating that you had angered Master Roissy.
i can feel your hate and bile rising in you, david, when you have to spar with me. you get an edge, a flicker of agitation, that you don’t show anywhere else.
good, good. let your hate consume you. feel it course through you. the dark side beckons.
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verbal combat is actually unattractive. there should be less of it on blogs, imho.
as for physical combat, i really like watching guys kick each other. i like to date guys who can kick the shit out of other guys. but i also like to sacrifice some muscle for brains. to each his own. human females have a lot of things we want in our men.
keep sparing
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“Haven’t you paid any attention to what Hope says about her parents’ arranged marriage? (Sorry, Hope.)
Grandparents. My mom chose for herself despite my grandparents’ warnings, and she chose poorly. But I think she really was in love with my dad, an “alpha male” of sorts.
I suppose I should thank him for his genetic contribution. After all, I work in the design field, and he had a lot of artistic talent whereas my mom had none.”
Well, I never thought that choosing for yourself led to happy marriages, but as I said, I think it’s more likely to end in the choice of alpha male than a parent’s selection would. Sorry I got that wrong, Hope.
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alias:
that vision of love wasn’t based on being “in love”; in other words, not based on passionate sexual attraction with an emotional component. So whether or not a man was “alpha” enough to turn them on was irrelevant.
that is very depressing on so many levels. why would a clitoris or the female orgasm evolve under those circumstances if this kind of arrangement was the norm throughout human existence?
rina:
verbal combat is actually unattractive.
didn’t you once write that you are sexually drawn to lawyers?
there should be less of it on blogs, imho.
pfft. no way. blog thrashing is quality entertainment. recipe swapping is down the hall second door on the left.
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@ Rina I think Roissy meant the kind of verbal thrashing where you talk on your cell phone and yell in an authoritative voice as if you are giving orders. That is a status thing though and not violence.
Some problems I noticed with the premises here:
Alpha versus beta distinction. We can’t really nail this one down yet, for lack of evidence. Companies like RSD and old school self improvement have been able to trigger identity level change in a lot of people taking them from super beta to super alpha. This makes it difficult to pinpoint how much of the alpha is determined genetically.
Some men are more prone to be a aggressive and have things going for them that may lead to alpha behavior, but that doesn’t mean people who started out beta (as a result of circumstance) can’t become just as alpha naturally as those original alphas. In fact the beta will be much more effective than the alpha because he had to learn this skill so he has conscious competence (good for retrospection and continual self improvement as a person) and unconscious competence (being in the moment good for making connections with people) at the same time.
@ Alias Clio society started out as matriarchal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriarchy#Archaeological_hypotheses
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@ DA, while I admire your vigor, you are nothing, but a hypocrite. A few blog articles back you stated that even though you knew the beta to alpha transformation is possible you choose not to because you prefer pornstarish looking women. Now you change the story and say that you are a loser beta and can’t get ass? Stick with one story. Also I think you should understand that it doesn’t matter how much money your making, since you’ll still get sex. Please refer to this thread before you make anymore self aggrandizing statements. If this hobo can pull then so can you (actually the hobo must pull he needs the girls to feed him to survive).
http://www.rsdnation.com/showthread.php?t=18679&highlight=homeless
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Oh my god Rina! i remember this one guy I dated. We’d be sitting there watching tv and he’d get up to get a coke and come back panting a little with a sheen on his forehead. I’d look at him and be like uhhh, what you been doing? and he’d be like oh, I just had to fight this one guy. He had 4 roommates and didn’t get along with a couple of them and that was just how they resolved shit. And I’d never know about what was going on b/c they all spoke spanish. But the dude apparently could kick anybody’s ass. He’d never have a mark on him. But I never did see him in action, I only heard about it. Personally I only knew him as Mr. sensitive uncircumsized man.
PS Holy shit y’all Roissy is going off on another one of those tirades where he beats the everliving shit out of someone until they never come back! Good times.
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try again.
1) You or another family member own a residence in France.
2) You resided in the country as part of your employment for either a private firm, non-profit organization, or ministry of State.
3) You are the child of a person who worked under option #2 above.
would hardly be surprised if your opinion was at odds with just about everyone who knows me
Is that an invitation to see you in person? 🙂
how’s that 5 terabyte tranny porno collection working out for you? servers whirring up for one more go-round before mom calls you to dinner?
I prefer quiet mornings while everybody is still asleep, or during the late hours of the night when nobody is around to interfere. It’s best to skip days to prevent damage and overuse of the tissues, and to ensure proper amounts of sleep.
didn’t you say you work at a call center for $10 an hour? i don’t think you have to worry about being valued for your ability to be a provider beta.
Obviously, I am currently not a provider beta…
Why should an average income beta male become a husband candidate in order to have sex? When he sees that his alpha counterpart has sex on demand without strings attached, why should he have to accept the white elephant of a marriage with children?
everybody has to bring something to the table. it’s not called the sexual market for no reason. you’re not a special little snowflake exempt from the realities of human nature.
I’m well aware that I’m not immune to the function of the sexual market, and if these men bring nothing to the table, it’s their problem, and it’s not my problem or society’s problem. I just don’t want a conversation that attempts to paint the pre-contraception period as a magical period when all was well with the world. I would rather have our current system where I am single, than one where the village female is forced upon me by societal construct.
i’ll tell you what, why don’t you start with dating first, before lapsing into treatises on reasons not to get married
No deal, Roissy. I read way too much shit to fall for that trap… 🙂
if you need to know why that is, then you are farther gone off the deep end than i originally thought.
Obviously you enjoyed your experiences, and have little to no regret about what you did, and I understand that. Mind you, for certain classes of males, given what recieved in exchange for their expenses, I would imagine that some would want a “refund”.
question. who’s happier
It depends on the ranking level of the woman, the pleasure intensity of the sex, and the frequency of the sex as well.
i tell it like is.
I understand, and it is possible that beta men have been shut out due to their new irrelevance in our new social order, but that’s their problem for not meeting the needs of the market.
all i need is belief in myself and confidence, something with which you have demonstrated a painfully obvious shortcoming.
I’m just simply high realistic about my chances, and given the choice between taking the 4 or jerking off about the 8, I’d take the latter. We just simply have a difference in opinion in ranking women, and ability of a man to attract and keep women of high rank.
restraint?
Your ability to prevent this comment stream from turning into a pity party.
i can feel your hate and bile rising in you, david, when you have to spar with me. you get an edge, a flicker of agitation, that you don’t show anywhere else.
good, good. let your hate consume you. feel it course through you. the dark side beckons.
No, I simply like the intellectual challenge of sparing against you in verbal combat, but contrary to what you may think, there is no hate for you from me.
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“@ Alias Clio society started out as matriarchal”
Poseur, if you’ve read that article properly you’ll have noticed that it refers to the matriarchal hypothesis*, and says it has been discarded by many more recent scholars.
I’m not at all certain we’ll ever have enough facts to know, either way, but I am certain that this “fact” has not been proven yet.
* cf the following etymology of the word:
Main Entry: hy·poth·e·sis
Pronunciation: \hī-ˈpä-thə-səs\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural hy·poth·e·ses \-ˌsēz\
Etymology: Greek, from hypotithenai to put under, suppose, from hypo- + tithenai to put — more at do
Date: circa 1656
1 a: an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument b: an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action
2: a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences
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headache inducer:
3) You are the child of a person who worked under option #2 above.
occam’s razor, DA. i dated a couple of french girls. they live in france now.
Is that an invitation to see you in person?
i believe you to be certifiably nutty, so, no.
It’s best to skip days to prevent damage and overuse of the tissues, and to ensure proper amounts of sleep.
you can avoid chafing by substituting real vagina. trust me, you’l never look back.
Why should an average income beta male become a husband candidate in order to have sex?
he doesn’t need to. but for those guys who do want that lifestyle, the pill and sundry prophylactics have made it more difficult to close that particular deal.
I just don’t want a conversation that attempts to paint the pre-contraception period as a magical period when all was well with the world.
strawman. where did i claim the pre-contraception era was a magical period? it certainly wasn’t as fun for the alpha males. contraception has brought positive and negative changes, and my contention is that the negative changes are worse for society than the positive changes are good for the individual (such as myself). it’s your blindspot if you can’t fathom how social changes in the past 40 years may be a net negative.
I would rather have our current system where I am single, than one where the village female is forced upon me by societal construct.
see, things like this help confirm my suspicions that you are a headcase. who the hell is talking about “forcing” a woman on you? pre-contraception, women had choice in their mates. they were just constrained by a different operating system of incentives and disincentives than the ones we have today. just like we all are. fucking christ your white knighting routine of standing up for the poor oppressed widdle women you wouldn’t even want to sully with your own dick for fear of imposing on their precious feelings is tiresome beyond words. and ineffective.
No deal, Roissy. I read way too much shit to fall for that trap…
how about this. go up to the next decent looking woman you see and say Hi. smile when you do it. then have a short conversation. ask her out. forget about the outcome. forget about reeling off a laundry list of patented DA excuses for why you can’t/won’t do it. just SACK UP. if you can do that much you will have earned a small measure of my respect. and, yes, my respect is worthy of being earned.
Mind you, for certain classes of males, given what recieved in exchange for their expenses, I would imagine that some would want a “refund”.
there are very few men who can endure a sustained length of time dating only fuglies. every guy has one or two girls he’d exchange for a refund, but in the big picture it’s mostly white noise.
It depends on the ranking level of the woman, the pleasure intensity of the sex, and the frequency of the sex as well.
answer: the loveless, celibate miser is not happy. we at least know this with certainty.
but that’s their problem for not meeting the needs of the market.
you can’t blame them for wanting what the guys who are good with women have. and it isn’t entirely their fault if larger social forces conspire against them.
btw, the pill has had negative social effects for women as well. details upon request.
I’m just simply high realistic about my chances, and given the choice between taking the 4 or jerking off about the 8, I’d take the latter.
false choice. what about taking the 6? the 7? you know, a cute 6 isn’t bad for a romp in the hay. and it sure beats gloomily jerking off in the middle of the night to a flickering monitor.
We just simply have a difference in opinion in ranking women, and ability of a man to attract and keep women of high rank.
dude, all offense intended, if your taste in porno babes is anything like your taste in real life babes, then your 8 is probably a normal man’s 3. so either you are an extreme outlier (in which case your opinion on general relations between the sexes is necessarily skewed) or you are setting your rankings in such a way that it enables you to rationalize your feeble inaction.
don’t you realize that every word you write, every excuse you make, betrays a crippling fear of women in you? you don’t want to impose on them sexually. you damn betas, and yourself by extension, for their weakness. you tell alphas to have a grand ol time fucking around. you place women on pedestals when mean nasty brutes like myself give feminism the once-over for its inherent idiocy. you white knight like it’s going out of style.
all of this screams “I’M SCARED TO INTERACT WITH WOMEN IN A SEXUAL WAY”.
when you finally get around to kissing a girl you really like, i think you’ll wonder why you ever bothered amassing a 5 terabyte collection of porn. and you’ll thank me for my very special lessons.
but contrary to what you may think, there is no hate for you from me.
i guess i need to work harder.
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Nothing holds in scent and flavor like a nice, thick, luxuriant Glorious Natural Pelt.
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Man, what is it with you guys? Half of these posts are about hating on the French (and, thanks to Lemmonex, Pollacks.)
545 times a year is unrealistic, because after a while you’ll blow dry. There’s more than enough sperm but you run out of semen; you’ve only got about 3 or 4 shots stored up and it normally takes about 2 days to recharge. I’m sure David Alexander can provide supporting data from hands-on experimentation.
I was going to Photoshop up a picture of 125 mini-Roissys but it kept ending up turning into an Aphex Twin video.
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Sorry guys, but I can have sex with a woman two to three times a day indefinitively
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Oh, darn. I missed Roissy’s picture. Would a kind soul link me up?
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“Sorry guys, but I can have sex with a woman two to three times a day indefinitively”
Gannon, I know you meant “indefinitely,” and I know I’m a big nerd, but right now I’m picturing you asking a woman several times a day, “Uh, did we just, like, do it?”
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“Sorry guys, but I can have sex with a woman two to three times a day indefinitively”
Gannon, I know you meant “indefinitely,” and I know I’m a big nerd, but right now I’m picturing you asking a woman several times a day, “Uh, did we just, like, do it or what?”
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@Shannon
Please remember I’m Argentinian, so my English is far form perfect, and it shows from time to time, but I’m just to lazy to use spellcheck. Don’t you think it’s funny that Shannon rymes with Gannon?
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If Roissy a red-head? Is he the guy in a picutre once posted? If so, Roissy you’re so fugly that I don’t know why you’re writing about women/sex- women actually don’t mind touching you? I really think this is as fake as ‘The Hills.’
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What’s with this ‘alpha/beta’ crap? It all comes down to hot men vs ugly men. Never think otherwise.
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Alias Clio, it is as much a hypothesis as matriarchy is and to say that more modern scholars have disproved it is dismissive because the article only cites two authors who have recently put out books. The article also states the books have been rebutted, but this is a small point that I only made to shed attention on the matter.
David Alexander you didn’t answer my post, which is a whole lot more blatant than Roissy’s assault on the reasons why you choose to stick with porn (albeit his is correct). Seriously dude why don’t you make a commitment to yourself to go out 7 nights a week for 1 year for 4 hours a night. Not only will you improve your skills with women, but you will also accomplish a goal and prove to yourself that you are capable. It will boost your confidence and you might get a better job. For that matter why do you and Roissy fight in every thread.
Roissy what say you to the point made in my original post about the alpha beta distinction. Googling your name turns up weird images.
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Sorry that previous post should say as much as patriarchy is.
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Gannon, no worries – that just struck me as funny. As for the rhyming thing, maybe we should start a rumor that we’re the same person.
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David Alexander,
Why not work on yourself instead of escaping into porn? You could use the same effort to work on yourself. Try this; watch porn for 72 hours straight. DO NOT turn it off under any circumstances and you are not allowed to sleep at all. Just keep watching until you get sick of it. Take five days if you need to. Then drop it and get a life.
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Is the Internet giving betas a back door into alpha female land? I’ve been able to connect with people I should have no business connecting with by presenting myself on here in a way I’m not socially skilled enough to do in person. Then I can do the famous phone thing that everyone criticized me for (except Hope). Just askin’.
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The Internet is in some ways a great equalizer. It makes the approach less scary.
But Internet dating has its own drawbacks for so-called betas: namely, it’s another forum by which we women can get tons of attention for little to no effort, plus, it’s a form of shopping. We like shopping.
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I’ve read a fair bit about prehistoric matriarchy, both pro and con. I don’t think there’s any consensus about whether it existed.
I think it’s unlikely, if only because the kind of evidence being used is, to me, suspect. Goddess-worship says nothing about whether a society is matriarchal, yet there are many people (perhaps not serious scholars) who write as if it were conclusive evidence of matriarchy.
And if there were prehistoric matriarchies, I doubt that their women’s right to choice of mate made up for their other liabilities. There are societies today that are virtual matriarchies in that women are very frequently heads of their households, in which men are invited in only for purpose of reproduction (I’m thinking modern Jamaica), but in which feral fatherless men run wild and terrorize the women and children.
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WHY DOES EVERYONE OVERLOOK THE FACT THAT ROISSY BUTT UGLY? Enough with the pseudo-intellectual b.s.
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you can avoid chafing by substituting real vagina. trust me, you’ll never look back.
I had real vagina without a condom, and I didn’t feel anything or notice any real advantage.
it’s your blindspot if you can’t fathom how social changes in the past 40 years may be a net negative.
I’ll take the bait. Why is society worse off with women chasing after alphas, and what are the negative effects of cheap and effective birth control on women?
who the hell is talking about “forcing” a woman on you?
I’m probably explaining this concept rather poorly. I don’t mean that society would have forced a woman upon me, but that in earlier generations, women were forced to marry beta males that they may not have been attracted to because of community pressure and a limited means of supporting herself without a male’s wages. The same female now is now free to chase and engage in a relationship with an alpha or stay single. In our modern world, the beta is free to stay single and have fun and not marry women to meet the old cultural norms where the only acceptable options were marriage or priesthood.
Is it better for women to chase alphas, and betas to be able to spurn women who they would have married half a century ago? I think it’s better that way, but some may disagree.
go up to the next decent looking woman you see and say Hi.
Initially, I said no, but in the spirit of our verbal sparing, I will accept your challenge. I’ll post the results of your challenge on my blog. 🙂
answer: the loveless, celibate miser is not happy. we at least know this with certainty.
Still, a certain part of me wonders why would men who repeatedly have sex with ugly women continue to have sex with said women. Why don’t they just give up and switch to porn? One would suspect that some mental feedback would induce feelings of failure, or some sense of dignity would prevent a male from bottoming in such a way.
false choice.
You’re right. It certainly doesn’t magically become a simple argument between two women of varying rank, so admittedly, there are women in between the ranks. Admittedly, I am amazed that given your harsher ranking scheme, that you would even consider a 6 to be sexually active.
you know, a cute 6 isn’t bad for a romp in the hay. and it sure beats gloomily jerking off
Interestingly, most of my female friends, including Wellesley Queen, have stated that I’d probably give up masturbation if I had a cute 6 with acrylic nails, and that would easily be within my reach.
For that matter why do you and Roissy fight in every thread.
It’s a fun intellectual exercise. It’s different from reading the Economist or Foreign Affairs magazine.
i guess i need to work harder.
I guess you will have to work harder. 🙂
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Were early societies run by women? Here’s a thought-experiment that settles the matter:
Would they have persisted if they were?
C’mon people, think it through.
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I’ve read a fair bit about prehistoric matriarchy, both pro and con. I don’t think there’s any consensus about whether it existed.
People often confuse matriarchal societies (ruled by women) with matrilineal societies (ruled by men, but with inheritance through the female line). Matrilineal societies definitely did exist and there may still be some today.
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I just want to know if SARS has a brother named AIDS.
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Yes, Peter. I suspect poseur is aware of that, though. He/she is simply trying to overstate the case for the existence of matriarchy, first by saying that pre-historic societies were indeed matriarchal, and then backing down to say that prehistoric patriarchy and matriarchy are both equally hypothetical. (Which is what I said too.) We really don’t have any evidence either way.
But I would add that I think pre-historic patriarchy is a good deal likelier than matriarchy. Women’s relative lack of raw physical strength in comparison to men must always have given men the advantage over us. But some forms of patriarchy are more benign than others, and I’ve no doubt that even in pre-history there were many different forms of it, some allowing relatively greater power to women.
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When you write comments that are REEEEAAALLLYYYY LONG it becomes difficult to follow the thread. Can we stop doing this:
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Wouldn’t it have been better if I didn’t just do that?
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agnostic:
can we define ‘run’?
like, we can all agree that the role of women is as or more important as a man’s to make a society function and continue existing. (at least i hope we can all agree!)
women, who are not as ambitious as men, who have more of a social networking agenda, and who do most of the child rearing probably did not run the government or wage wars.
so no, i don’t think any societies were ‘run’ by women in that sense. all the ‘running’ is pretty much a man’s game and business.
i want no part of it. gimme babies!
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Yes Alias Clio I’m just trying to draw some debate about the topic. Admittedly I don’t know very much about it, but did remembering hearing something about it so I found the wikipedia page. In any case since you seem to have studied this I’d love some more cites or to hear more on the topic.
The first thing I considered was that men are stronger than women physically so they might have an advantage in ruling, but then I thought that might be countered with the primitive nature of ancient societies, which may have worshiped the power of the female purse.
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poseur: Roissy what say you to the point made in my original post about the alpha beta distinction.
which point was that?
rina: can we define ‘run’?
if a girl can make a guy spooge just by brushing up against his crotch she runs society by proxy.
DA: Why is society worse off with women chasing after alphas, and what are the negative effects of cheap and effective birth control on women?
disenfranchised betas lead to social unraveling.
cheap and effective birth control, including abortion, made it harder for women to get men to commit.
I had real vagina without a condom, and I didn’t feel anything or notice any real advantage.
then that must’ve been one strange vagina.
I’ll post the results of your challenge on my blog.
i’ll need audio verification. bring a voice recorder along so we can hear the approach.
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#76, Poseur: I’m no expert, but I’ve read a few of the books listed in that wikipedia article and I know the kinds of arguments they make. They base their assumptions on the prevalence of female goddess-imagery, with enormous breasts and bellies, in the Paleolithic period of European pre-history, a prevalence which ended in the Neolithic period when tribal invaders from the east began to impose their pagan gods. (See this in the NY Times for a description, and critique of, the theory: http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/09/17/reviews/000917.17angiert.html)
I have also read in news stories that more recently paleo-anthropologists (I think that’s the name) have turned up “evidence” to discredit the matriarchy hypothesis, but I cannot recall whether what they offered was anything new, or simply a different perspective on the same materials. I have been unable to find any reference to this online.
If you want speculation about what matriarchy might have been like (in fictional form), and what problems it might face, you could do worse than to read Mary Renault’s two books, The Bull From the Sea and The King Must Die. They were both written, I think, in the late 1950s.
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Days of Broken Arrows:
Why yes I do. Why, do you know him?
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Small world indeed!
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By the way, Why does anyone believe roissy about how he’s slept with so many women? Yeah right. My ass.
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Rina said: “so no, i don’t think any societies were ‘run’ by women in that sense. all the ‘running’ is pretty much a man’s game and business. i want no part of it. gimme babies!”
You do realize that by deciding which kids get born and from which man you are, in essence, running the world already, don’t you?
I mean, women could go out in droves and have babies from Silicon Valley geniuses, couldn’t they? What if all the women got together and decided they really wanted cures for cancer, so they bred with nerdy pre-meds types.
But women don’t do that. They breed with ghetto boys. Thus, women aren’t just running the world, they’re ruining it.
I’m sure you’ll marry up, though, Rina.
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Hey do you know my brother AIDS or not?
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Roissy my question was how can you define an alpha male given the fact that any beta can commit himself to going out and becoming a master pick up artist hence becoming more alpha than the natural (in fact the pua can become a natural as game is really only about logistics and being a man that is true to his intentions and acts on his desires).
Oh and thanks for the link Alias Clio.
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disenfranchised betas lead to social unraveling
Yet, I don’t see any evidence pointing towards a massive collapse in our society where the beta males have run amok.
i’ll need audio verification. bring a voice recorder along so we can hear the approach.
Alright, I’ll take the challenge, and post the link to the MP3 of the results on my blog. Feel free to link to the results when they’re posted…
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We have a winner!
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@David Alexander:
Very funny coming from you. I guess it’s easier to criticize others while rationalizing your own weaknesses.
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@roissy
While I think fiscal responsibility is important, increasingly I’m thinking that counting every penny for some potential future apocolypse/disaster/retirement-in-50-years is a waste of time and an unnecessary dragon our happiness. People’s attitudes should be to go out and earn more money, not to save every penny at their current salary.
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roissy
“question. who’s happier:
a. the guy who blows all his money but gets laid constantly
b. the loveless celibate miser?”
Why in God’s name do you have to narrow everything down to TWO choices? Is your world view really that limited? Yup.
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Damn, David Alexander takes over ever blog he visits.
As to the point of the post, that the “pill” made things harder for “betas”, well I don’t know.
I see the pill as a good thing. The pill means women don’t pay for their slutty behavior and that means they give it up easier.
I mean, how hard is it to pick up a chick these days? I haven’t read too many of the entries on this blog, so I am not too familiar with this whole beta/alpha thing, but just about any guy can pick up a chick (if his expectations in regards to looks are reasonably in line with his own looks) and bone her if he really puts his mind to it. I don’t buy that the pill’s effects on a woman’s sexual behavior is only a benefit to players.
Hell, every guy I know, even the fat guys, eventually scores. Maybe the pill is a benefit to the players, but it is also a benefit to the non-players that score every so often.
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DA:
Alright, I’ll take the challenge, and post the link to the MP3 of the results on my blog. Feel free to link to the results when they’re posted…
i will. and just to get you started, here’s a simple direct approach you can use:
“hey, i know this is kind of random, but i saw you over here and i just had to come over and meet you.”
if you want to go indirect, use a situational opener, like this:
“hi, nice purse. do you carry a small dog in there?”
after a few minutes of chatting this line works well for closing:
“i have to get going but let’s continue our conversation another time. give me your number.”
this could be a momentous event. i might dedicate a blog post to it.
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The Cherokees were matrilineal/semi-matriarchal. Upon marriage, the man would join the woman’s clan. Additionally, the men couldn’t wage war until the women had met and voted on the subject.
Anna:
Why in God’s name do you have to narrow everything down to TWO choices? Is your world view really that limited? Yup.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those that divide everyone into two categories, and everyone else.
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the [Cherokee] men couldn’t wage war until the women had met and voted on the subject.
For all I know you may be telling the truth, but I find it implausible — whan men, other than contemporary Swedes, would put up with such an arrangement for any significant period of time?
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PA, the answer would be, “my ancestors.”
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Were your ancestors unique among N. American Indians in this practice?
I maintain that the arrangement strikes me as implausible.
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No, they weren’t unique, PA. The Iroquois peoples also had a matrilineal culture, and although only men could be clan chiefs, it was the women who voted for the chiefs. They weren’t truly matriarchal, but they did give women more social and political equality than contemporary colonial European cultures did. Historically, women tended to enjoy more power in societies where family and rank, as opposed to individual rights (as in a republic) had more sway – that is, until the late 19th century and its agitations for women’s rights.
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I don’t mean “verbal combat” as in getting into a shouting match — just like physical combat doesn’t have to mean a slug-fest.
Top dogs can make a guy back off just by standing chest-to-chest and staring him down. Same with verbal combat — like when a guy gets another guy to back off or concede defeat w/o screaming, using obscenities, etc.
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Alias,
I disagree with your interpretation of the Girl with a Pearl Earing movie. I think it is clear that they both have a thing for each other: she is clearly in love with Vermeer, and he with her because, among other things, as he says at the end of the movie, she “understands” him, unlike his wife. Also, she has sex with her boyfriend because she was filled with passion by Vermeer’s interest in her, an interest that neither could fulfill. It is clear that she does not love her boyfriend, and he, a typical Beta male, is all into her. I am curious as to what you think.
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I don’t doubt that the girl was attracted to Vermeer, and he to her, in the film. I think I understated her feelings in my previous post on the subject. But she knew that marriage between them was impossible, and that if he did try to seduce her, and she became pregnant, marriage to anyone else would then become impossible. Disgrace and ruin would certainly follow for her. So allowing herself to risk the possibility of pregnancy by her boyfriend, who could be strong-armed by social pressure and his own conscience into marrying her if he thought he was the father, was a kind of insurance policy. But her position would have been much the same even if she had not been attracted to her master, and he had made overtures to her. She would have been faced with the choice of saying no, and risk angering him and losing her job, or saying yes, and risk getting pregnant and losing her job just the same in the end. That was a rather common fate for female servants at one time.
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Clio,
I agree with you on all that. I think a good example of what you are saying is how Vermeer’s patron tried to force the girl to have sex with him. I am sure that was the much more common scenario from that time period than the romantic feelings between Vermeer and the girl. And as you said, it wold have left her with few choices and great social stigma. When I first saw the movie I did not see the boyfriend situation as an insurance policy in case she was impregnated by Vermeer, but after hearing what you had to say it makes perfect sense to me. I keep on calling her “the girl” because I can’t quite remember her name. I think it was Gret, or something like that.
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In the book, Grete’s attraction to Vermeer is more equivocal and uncertain. She finds his work fascinating, but his interest in her simply makes her life more difficult, and she is in no position to refuse him. She is in an impossible situation, with her master’s wife bitterly jealous of her, and his daughters following their mother’s lead. Her only supporter in the household is the other servant, and the mother-in-law, who knows that she is helping Vermeer to work after a period of sterility. When she seduces her boyfriend, if I’m remembering correctly, it is with the hope that she will become pregnant, and escape into marriage from having to work as a servant. But I’m not certain – it’s some time since I read it.
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exelents!
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fantastiko images
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[…] have always been this way. What changed was the pill, condom, economic parity and feminist devolution. Contrary to the conventional wisdom propagandized by […]
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Since the financial risk of an unwanted, out-of-wedlock child is so high. A men having a lot of sex with various American women, in the brutal child support laws that exist today, absolutely MUST :
Use TWO condoms, with a dab of cotton on the tip between the two of them.
Only then is the probability of conception acceptably low.
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Sorry, let’s try again:
While I agree with you fully that family law in America today is absolutely Stalinesque toward men, the one saving grace is that the vast majority of the relatively educated, professional women that men on this site are mostly targeting don’t want children, especially out of wedlock children, that much either.
Using two condoms at once (doublebagging) is an absolutely horrible idea – the frictional forces between the two rubbers will greatly increase the odds of breakage.
On the other hand, putting cotton in the tip is an interesting idea. Never thought of that.
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