One time in South Beach I wandered into one of the art deco hotels and found myself surrounded by models. It was 1AM and I was drunk so it seemed like a good idea to roam the halls of a random hotel and crash any parties in progress. Every other room door was open and filled with beautiful people smoking pot, lounging on bean bags, and languidly caressing each other. There were hippie beaded doors and silk see-through fabrics substituting for real doors from which billowing clouds of pot smoke would emanate. The whole place gave the impression of walking through an interactive diorama of set pieces featuring the genetically perfect in their native habitat doing what they do best — snorting hedonism like an eight ball.
Passing by one of the rooms a girl shouted out at me to come in and join them. “Hey you, whatever your name is, don’t be shy!” I was barely out of college and had no game for this type of situation so all I could do was nod at the group and feel my pupils dilate to maximum aperture to take in the breathtakingly beautiful women. An occasional 9 or 10 walking down the street is a rare treat and can knock a guy right out of his daily humdrum stupor, but a roomful of 9s and 10s in seductive half-naked poses, doing that thing where you’re high and laughing without any noise coming out of your mouth, and gesturing for you to come closer where you take in their natural aromas, will make you catatonic. I tried hard to ignore the male models scuffling around the room in their underwear and felt relieved that the purity of my heterosexuality was not challenged by their six sigma good looks.
I sat on the purple shag rug next to one of the girls, a waifish brunette with olive skin and Mila Kunis lips. Her body and face couldn’t have been crafted any better by a master sculptor. I admired her flat stomach under her half-shirt dangling like an awning off her boobs.
“Where are you from?”
“Nowhere.” (I was very angsty back then.)
“Well, Mr. Nowhere, spark it up! You look tense.”
She handed me a spliff. I coughed on my first drag.
“I should warn you, it’s strong leaf.”
Suddenly, she leaned over and planted her lips on mine. The sensations overwhelmed me. I felt like I was having an out of body experience. We kissed for a few seconds. She pulled back and laughed as she slapped the back of her hand against her forehead.
“Hey dude, beer’s on the balcony.” One of the male models was talking to me.
I looked over and saw that my new love had her hand on his knee and he was chuckling. I stood up and went to the balcony. There was no beer in the cooler. Looking around, I saw that no one was paying me attention anymore. I left to find my friend.
That night was a glimpse into another world, a secret society of blessed people who are above 99.999999% of humanity, flouting every known convention and not giving a fuck. I fondly remember my first kiss with a 10 better than I do my actual first kiss. Enjoying the pleasure of a truly stunning woman is an experience like no other on this earth. Mediocre women — even attractive 8s — don’t provide the same profound depth of stimulation. I don’t know how so many men can get it up for ugly women.
In the age old question of quantity versus quality a balance must be struck. The super alphas will cycle through a rotation of the hottest women. Everyone else must compromise in some way. Variety in itself is a turn-on, but steady sex from one exceptionally beautiful woman is more rewarding than new sex with a plethora of plain janes.
Beautiful women are worth holding out for. By “holding out” I mean “saving your commitment”. One night of sex with a 10 is equal to ten years of sex with fifty 6s.
Tomorrow I will discuss the quantity vs quality pussy issue in more detail.
Hmm. Hate to admit this, but the handsomer the man, the more of a thrill a kiss from him was to me.
LikeLike
All of that is a given – you have to be invited in
LikeLike
So true.
My current girl is the easiest on the eyes of my service in the relationship wars, and I was actually shocked by the gut-wrenching, her-cervix-is-going-to-need-a-life-preserver orgasms I have with her.
Of course, that’s because she’s not a self-absorbed bitch; the silver medalist in my list, looks-wise, was a lousy lay. The fact that I really love this woman brings something to the sexual satisfaction equation, something that all you playas may get to experience some day.
LikeLike
This was a nice story, but I’ll again say that everyone’s idea of a ten is not the media’s idea. I dated two models (one of whom wound up in Playboy) and genuinely did not feel the same way as I did when I was with someone who was my “type.” Just a word to the guys to judge tens by your own standard, not what your friends or the folks in medialand think.
LikeLike
“Mediocre women — even attractive 8s — don’t provide the same profound depth of stimulation. I don’t know how so many men can get it up for ugly women.”
This is one of the most profound mysteries of the universe, like the precedent to the big bang, dark energy, or why anyone watches MTV programming save for ‘The Hills’.
You hit on an interesting truth. Ask me to recall the 10s I’ve been with and I can give you petaflops of information. Ask me about the rest and it would be fortunate if I don’t mix them up with each other.
LikeLike
everyone’s idea of a ten is not the media’s idea.
I agree. I think there are women who can be universally seen as 10’s. But there are women who are extremely beautiful to ome, but not to all men.
I’m, for example, a breast-man and I like them petite, no larger that a B cup. What to me is a superhot, to someone she else may be too skinny or even mousy.
Some universally-acknowledged 10’s that don’t do anything for me, at least through the filter of video, since I’ve never met them in person: Jessica Simpson (too meaty) and Pamela Anderson (female Michael Jackson).
LikeLike
most interesting post in a while. and I second DBA’s thoughts on finding your type vs. a media-annointed 10-type.
LikeLike
Regardless of it’s universality, everyone knows a 10 when they see one. You’re 10 might be my 9, but, whatever, you are rocked when you see her.
LikeLike
Some women are made more intriguing, I suspect, by the fact that their looks can go “in” and “out” like sunlight behind a cloud. I once knew a girl in high school who always caught my attention because at times she could look like hag: she was blonde, freckled, and sharp-featured, and tiredness or the wrong colours brought out the worst in her looks. And then, quite suddenly, she could look like a raving beauty, making other girls look dull and ordinary beside her, even very pretty ones. Boys seemed to notice this about her too.
LikeLike
alias: I dated one of those.. She’d look absolutely plain in sweats, glasses, and a ponytail. But easily one of the hottest girls on campus at every party we went to when she did herself up and dressed nicely. No one seemed to understand. Probably attractive to guys because that kind of girl can fit very well into their M/W complex. Although I thought she was hottest after sex
LikeLike
Clio, a Seinfeld episode covered that phenomenon: she’s a two-face.
LikeLike
roissy, your femmy idea of getting sex from women being the only way of measuring a man has actually turned you into a girl.
stories of some super fab hotel in south beach, getting invited in, having some uber chick just reach out and take you is like a fucking romance novel for old housewives, but you just exchanged the male and female characters.
hot girls are great, but any man knows you will get sick of every woman at some point and you’ll always want some strange.
LikeLike
Is this your written confession that you’re more around a 7 or 8 yourself?
LikeLike
clio:
And then, quite suddenly, she could look like a raving beauty
¡Tequila!
—
i hear you on this one though: most honest 10’s don’t look like 10’s without the right lighting and environment. i guarantee that, had roissy encountered exactly the same group of females on the street, or even on the beach, he’d have thought of them as little more than ‘a bunch of hot girls’. to prove this point, i quote:
9s and 10s in seductive half-naked poses, doing that thing where you’re high and laughing without any noise coming out of your mouth, and gesturing for you to come closer where you take in their natural aromas
translation: poses and actions that portend imminent sex add 1-2 points.
paradoxically, though, many 8’s and 9’s are still 8’s and 9’s even if they stumble out of bed into direct sunlight with a hangover and sleep-encrusted eyes.
LikeLike
12 – Agreed to an extent that every man will eventually or should eventually get bored…But the bored should be replaced with more hot chicks…The power of your first 9 or 10 is unbelievable…And not by coincidence, I’ve noticed that most guys, myself included, have experienced our first 9/10 in Miami. South Beach is definitely a native habitat and I seriously enjoy how the restaurants and clubs don’t pretend that everyone is equal…Lines in South Beach are for show, the best looking people walk right through everything, regardless if their famous, rich or poor. Perfection of the Flesh is the true currency
LikeLike
This is the best you can do? A first 10 experience and all you got was a kiss? That’s like saying you went to a Yankee’s game and sat in the Parking lot. How about something like, “when I was a sophomore in hs, the first 10 experience of my life was a blowjob in the dressing room behind the ampi-theater… and I quickly realized that ‘hot chicks’ they don’t mind you pulling on their when their focused on something like sucking… we dated for four months and then the ‘newness’ of being 10 wore off… and then it was like ‘eh'”
LikeLike
Guys Roissy also said he was drunk. The bear goggle effect is scientifically documented and there is even a formula to compute how much it adds.
Roissy your post reminds me alot of Tim’s story in RSD’s Transformations series (will elaborate upon request).
LikeLike
Hate to admit this, but the handsomer the man, the more of a thrill a kiss from him was to me.
The research I’ve read shows that the best predictor of whether or not a female orgasms is the symmetry of the male’s face — basically, how good-looking it is — which trumped how long they were together, how deeply in love they were, bla bla bla.
If what you say is general, then the above would apply even in the earlier stages of physical intimacy.
LikeLike
I love how every time you try to write something a little different or come from a different point of view some twattwaffle will tell you how you’re sounding like a female or beta, soft or whatever. You right your usual style and someone else will complain about you spewing the same old shit. God to be a blogger.
As you know I’m getting straight shitty after the gym, scrub your balls and expect a phone call.
“Smell Yo Dick”
LikeLike
Ha, Agnostic, amusing! Puts paid to the idea that a man’s looks don’t matter that much to most women.
I don’t know if my response to kissing handsome men is general, though. Other women will insist that they don’t care about how a man looks, if they love him, and some of them at least appear to mean it. I can’t even swear it’s general for myself; it’s a trend I’ve noticed, that’s all.
LikeLike
Right, and a mans looks matter more than pua’s let on. In most other cultures and most other species it’s the men who peacock for women. Our culture is anomalous in this regard, deep down, biologically, women go for guys who look good.
LikeLike
poseur:
Guys Roissy also said he was drunk. The bear goggle effect is scientifically documented and there is even a formula to compute how much it adds.
it’d be more accurate to say i had been drinking. my powers of observation were still strong.
Roissy your post reminds me alot of Tim’s story in RSD’s Transformations series (will elaborate upon request).
poseur, do you have the link to that story? i’d like to read it.
clio:
Puts paid to the idea that a man’s looks don’t matter that much to most women.
i never said a man’s looks don’t matter that much, i said they don’t matter as much to women as women’s looks matter to men.
any insistence otherwise will have to deal with the libraries full of scientific and sociological evidence to the contrary.
LikeLike
Yes, yes, roissy, that was just me putting the cat among the pigeons.
The rest of my comment made it clear that I know women assign a lesser importance to looks, though I suspect that the precise degree is often clouded by feminine bafflegab, at which we excel.
LikeLike
let’s talk about the astronomic HIV infection rates in Miami Dade County!
LikeLike
Well, the other thing to remember is that a guy’s looks matter — only as far as orgasming is concerned. Most guys don’t care whether or not she orgasms, and you’d have to Google around to find the exact numbers, but it’s clear that orgasming is not a top priority for most women (like security, shared interests, etc.), so they’ll overlook it.
On the other hand, if a female consistently prefers guys with attractive faces, that probably tells you something about her priorities.
LikeLike
It’s not often that the first comment on a Roissy post is Alias Clio agreeing, but of course for her to agree here is to disagree, since Roissy’s point again seems to be that, for men more than for women, looks are the primary determinant in sexual and even romantic interest.
It’s an interesting question, who values looks more. Although I generally agree with Roissy that women are more likely to accept substitute qualities for looks such as social status or assholery, for many women, a kiss from a handsome 10 does have the brain-frying effect described here.
LikeLike
#17 Poseur
Roissy your post reminds me alot of Tim’s story in RSD’s Transformations series (will elaborate upon request).
Please do so. Optimus Prime always struck me as sort of beta with his concern for the weak and all that, so I’d be interested to learn more. Plus, I don’t think he has more than one or two notches. What a little bitch.
LikeLike
Futilius, a handsome man can also “fry” his chances with a woman if he says something really stupid or obnoxious. I mean, kill them dead: if it’s bad enough (really “beta” in Roissy’s terms), it can kill not just emotional interest but physical attraction. That’s one big difference between women and men.
LikeLike
#25 agnostic
Most guys don’t care whether or not she orgasms
I’ve always wondered about this — what’s the downside to making the effort to give her an orgasm? The benefits would seem to be undeniable — she’ll want to fuck you more often herself, and she’ll probably spread the word by boasting to her female acquaintances, raising your status in their eyes and possibly increasing your number of potential options. Plus, there’s the plain old satisfaction of a job well done. Is it really just too much work, or what?
LikeLike
1 alias clio
“Hmm. Hate to admit this, but the handsomer the man, the more of a thrill a kiss from him was to me.”
And what was the price you paid for it? Was it worth the price? For me? NO.
LikeLike
A 10 eventually becomes a 1 if looks is all she has going on.
LikeLike
Interesting. My recent posts have been about the importance of looks. Just how important they are in human society is frightening. I’m with “Days of Broken Arrow” on the girl who’s actually your type is better than ten that’s not.
LikeLike
“And what was the price you paid for it? Was it worth the price? For me? NO.”
No, it wasn’t worth the price. I’m not sure, though, that that was a function of the handsomeness. But it’s true that one of the beauties was a colossal narcissist, almost a sociopath. The classic formula: mad, bad, and dangerous to know.
LikeLike
Well, I don’t have any youtube videos for you guys, but I can summarize it. Tim was in Vegas and he saw a lot of girls with old guys on their arms. He was wondering what was up with that since the old guys “can’t possibly be having sex with these girls.” He hears about the best club in Vegas some super club. He gets their at the worst time ever with a huge ass line with lots of cool people in it. Just as he is about to turn away this big bouncer stops him and asks him if he is on the guest list.
Bouncer: “Hey you guys on the guest list?”
Tim: “No, but what can we do to ensure that?”
Bouncer: “Where you from?”
Tim: “Australia.”
Bouncer: “Oh cool I LOVE Australia.”
Tim: “Cool I love this club.”
Both of them lol. Bouncer says, “aight dude follow me.” Takes them around the corner and drops two VIP bands in their wrists, as Tim is with his friend. He rolls them in blowing people out of the way all the while people are staring in awe at who the hell are these guys. They put the bands on and all of a sudden they get their own personal butler, booze is free at this point. Another guy shows up and asks if there is anything he can do for Tim and his friend. Tim gets piss drunk and needs to go to the bathroom, but there is a hugeass line so the butler guy tells Tim he has a private bathroom. On the way back he sees a gold elevator. He thinks to himself, “I bet that’s for me.” He rolls up and the elevator guard is like, “NO.” Tim shows his band and the guy is like, “oh oh sorrry didn’t recognize you.” Tim winds up in the platinum room. He winds up in a room full of “turbo girls, and big shots.” Asks for “that fine scotch whiskey.” Some girl walks up and she asks Tim what he does. He responds, “oh starting with the survey.” She goes, “hehe we ask that a lot up here.” Tim’s response: “Yeah I could tell.”
If this is at all interesting tell me to go on as this is about two thirds of the way through…
LikeLike
33 alias “one of the beauties was a colossal narcissist, almost a sociopath.”
I know him. Very dangerous only he thinks he’s sexy. Shudder. Think Picture of Dorian Gray and that’s not an exaggeration. There must be female versions? It’s NEVER worth it. I don’t know how the guys feel.
LikeLike
He specialized in psychological torture, like the husband in the Hitchcock movie Gaslight.
LikeLike
If this is at all interesting tell me to go on as this is about two thirds of the way through…
keep going, you’ve hooked me.
LikeLike
36 alias
Gaslight? I just googled it. Looks awesome. I love Hitchcock. One of my favorites is Rope. Today is the malignant narcissists birthday. I copied my Bachelor Pad Seduction comments 29 and 30 and emailed them to him with no mention of his birthday. I seriously hate the creep, but he was the finest kisser I’ve ever had. Now I shudder to think of why I was attracted to him in the first place. He went from a 10 to a -10. My only regret is it didn’t happen quicker. Yes, looks are too powerful, yet it was a powerful lesson…
LikeLike
I seriously hate the creep, but he was the finest kisser I’ve ever had.
Sociopaths are the best natural psychologists, so they have a knack for knowing what a person wants. And with little regard for social mores, they can easily give it to them.
If you want the opposite of a sociopath, then you have to accept that they’ll be more socially clueless in figuring out what you want, and then bungle the job when they try to give you what they think you want.
It’s a trade-off.
LikeLike
BTW, I got that wrong: it was George Cukor, in a departure from his usual style, who was the director of the version of Gaslight that I referred to above.
And yes, sociopaths, Agnostic, have a talent for understanding human psychology. But it’s one of those “think horses, not zebras” situations: why should you think that a handsome co-worker, for example, is a sociopath?
LikeLike
40 clio
“why should you think that a handsome co-worker, for example, is a sociopath?”
Why would you think ANYONE is a sociopath? Unfortunately it’s a sad fact that we tend to trust more attractive people, yet they’re probably the one’s we should trust the least. They’d have to be at narcissistic, if for no other reason, than because they’ve been treated as priviledged and “special” since the day they were born. It’s more a handicap that must be overcome.
LikeLike
I just wanna throw one more thing in here: What do you do when you’re out with a ten and she puts on a Celine Dion CD and goes into a soliloquy about what an incredible “artist” Celine is and how she’s seen her in concert dozens of times, and how she uses “her instrument” to such great effect.
Somebody better have an answer to this, because if you’re really shooting for tens this is likely what you’re gonna have to put up with. Maybe not this, but some variation of it. If you’re putting off sex for a few dates, that’s gonna be a lot of Celine (or whatever) you have to pretend to like.
Or what about when they drone on about alternative medicine? Or something you know is BS? No one, it seems, has the temerity to tell beautiful women when they’re full of sh*t.
LikeLike
No one, it seems, has the temerity to tell beautiful women when they’re full of sh*t.
So why don’t you try it?
Just do it the right way. Do not *argue* that they shouldn’t like Celine Dion for such and such reasons. Just let her know that her stock just took a massive hit. You’re the man, she has to impress you, not the other way around. No woman is going to turn you down for not liking Celine Dion, but a lot of women are going to turn you down for pretending to like Celine Dion. (come on, it’s ridiculously transparent, there’s no way any straight human male likes Celine Dion)
Obviously this shouldn’t be any problem for girls you can just forget. If it is, you need to fix that self-esteem problem or whatever’s making you suck up to girls.
LikeLike
42 DOBA “No one, it seems, has the temerity to tell beautiful women when they’re full of sh*t.”
#1: I am not a Celine Dion fan.
#2: My best friend in high school used to tell me I was full of shit every day, but then he was a friend, not a lover…..not at first anyway. He became a friend/lover later and wanted to marry me, but I was too young and foolish to take him seriously. Instead I married the local psychopath and lived in hell for 11 years, but that’s another story. Though he often felt I was full of it (and he was often right) he laughed when he said it. You might get away with it yourself but it depends on the woman and how you say it. A Celine Dion fan probably would not take it well. Good luck. 🙂
LikeLike
You know, someone told me something once that really drove it all home to me. “No matter how hot you think a chick is, there’s some dude that got tired of fucking her.”
Really puts it all in perspective.
LikeLike
I may be prejudiced, since ten years of sex with 50 different sixes is a pretty good description of my last decade, but I don’t think the gap between a 10 and a 6-7 is as great as Roissy makes it out. In fact, I think he needs to build up a romantic myth of the 10 to justify all the stresses and strains he puts himself through chasing pussy. There MUST be some big prize at the end, right? Not just endlessly cycling through sleeping with more and more different women? So the fantasy of scoring the perfect 10 who will justify it all gets larger and larger…
It’s true that I remember the very few extraordinarily beautiful women I’ve slept with more than the others…but IME you can get tired of anyone. And the overall best sex I ever had was with a 6 who was tremendous, unbelievable in bed and who I really liked.
LikeLike
Man, the 70’s sound like they totally ruled.
LikeLike
MQ(46) I think you made a number of good points.
LikeLike
GOOD POST #46
LikeLike
jaakkeli
come on, it’s ridiculously transparent, there’s no way any straight human male likes Celine Dion
agreed.
despite being as straight as an arrow, though, i am entranced by the voices of such classical songstresses as jessye norman and renee fleming. if celine sang 300-year-old lieder, i might have to go gay for just long enough to listen.
—
t.
“No matter how hot you think a chick is, there’s some dude that got tired of fucking her.”
because i am a selfless gentleman with a big heart, i am always the first to share such dudes’ burdens. i’ll even put in the work for free!
LikeLike
I don’t think that good sex and good looks go so strictly together. One of my ex gf was the prettiest and hottest girl in my small town, but she was not good at bed (not bad either). sex was ofcourse nice, but not especially good. i have had best sex with beautiful but not ultimate beautiful girls.
LikeLike
51 my mistake
A friend of mine bagged a 10 and said it was the worst sex he’s ever had. Roissy asserts that a woman’s appearance is all that he requires to get maximum sexual enjoyment.
LikeLike
The only certain benefit of a 10 is the validation that you have climbed the chimp hierarchy. Other than that social proof there is really no sure benefit that you will derive.
LikeLike
What struck me the most about this story is how that guy dealt with Roissey and took him out of the picture (and the room altogether) by pretending to be his buddy.
“’Hey dude, beer’s on the balcony.’ One of the male models was talking to me.
I looked over and saw that my new love had her hand on his knee and he was chuckling. I stood up and went to the balcony. There was no beer in the cooler.
Looking around, I saw that no one was paying me attention anymore. I left to find my friend.”
It’s a great backhanded tactic to use, especially with younger dudes who are out of college, or guys who are out of their element.
LikeLike
“but steady sex from one exceptionally beautiful woman is more rewarding than new sex with a plethora of plain janes.”
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one 😉 I’ve known a number of 8s and 9s that were totally disappointing in the sack and whom I dumped because of it. Much rather bang a lot of average girls, but that’s just me.
LikeLike