These guys were talking to a couple of women at Marvin when an attractive third girl who was a friend of the women showed up. I walked over to occupy chat up the friend and our conversation was good. She was flirty, fun and all smiles. We talked for maybe ten minutes when I felt a meaty hand grip my forearm hard. I looked in the direction of the grip and saw an inebriated man giving me the drunk stink eye.
“Yo dude, take your fucking hand off my arm.”
He removed his hand. I turned back to the girl. Three seconds later his hand was back on my forearm.
“What did I say?” I grabbed his arm and pushed it off. He grunted and was about to put it back on when the girl intervened.
“Stop! Sorry, he gets like this. He’s drunk right now and can get very protective.”
“I see. So this is your boyfriend?” She was slapping his hand away like a mom would an insolent child.
“We’ve been dating a little while. I met him through the internet.” Figuring out why she would divulge that critical detail, I looked over and saw Douchebag Extraordinaire half sliding off his barstool and making another flailing attempt to grab my arm. He was a stocky guy, definitely not a herb, but his drunkenness meant slow reaction times. I was not worried if it came to blows.
I only felt superficial anger toward this guy. He was an insecure tool, but tools are a feature of the universe, like dark matter. They’re all over, and you learn to deal with them like you deal with the weather. My real contempt was for the girl for brazenly flirting with me in front of her date without telling me she was taken, and for dating such a loser. I never allow myself to be the guy that girls get their validation kicks from in plain view of their low self-esteem trigger happy boyfriends.
As I’m watching this go down, she kept repeating “I’m really sorry” but in that perky way that makes you think she’s not FEELING as sorry as she should. I turned back to her with a cold stare, making sure she understood that my problem was with her. “I’m done talking with you.” I pointed at her internet date. “Get this part of your life handled before you think about talking to guys like me again.” I walked off.
Taking a girl instantly from the high of flirty banter to the low of icy scorn lets her know her shit won’t fly with you. Social disapproval in the form of ostracization is a heat-seeking missile that aims straight at the thermal exhaust port of women, and if enough men had the balls to make an attractive girl pay a price for her stupid bar games and her bad choices in dates she might, over time, improve her behavior.
I’m not holding my breath.
I was right there but missed it… or else i would have tapped VK on the shoulder to help out.
You gotta hear him say how slapping a man is the new in thing.
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Maybe I don’t see the problem but fact of life: girls require attention. Is it annoying that you have to expend energy gaming girls that are just there for validation? Fuck yeah but dems are da breaks. So what, you woke up and decided I am going to “so-and-so” place to get laid but you know girls don’t necessarily have the same agenda.
Maybe she wanted to upgrade, maybe she wanted to make herself useful when her friends are chatting up other guys and her boyfriend is a useless tool? Who the fuck knows. A lot of chicks are afraid of being alone and will date whomever until the upgrade rolls around. There is an old saying, no girl worth having is usually single. I can’t even tell you how many relationships I’ve started out as the interloper nor can I tell you the number of times engaged chicks flirted with me or just outright propositioned me.
While I applaud your ability to walk away, you just sound like you’re pissed ’cause you were there to get laid and she may not have been there for the same reason.
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way to go, Roissy! get ‘er a bodybag, yeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhh!
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Awesome.
That is all.
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People are against shaming in general, nowadays. In fact, I would say that the two most common mantras are:
– “Always be yourself” and
– “Never be ashamed of who you are”
And that last one is so easily interprested as, “Never feel shame at all”.
Attempting to shame someone is very un-PC nowadays. That was one of the victims in the Culture War.
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DF,
I totally agree with you on being there for a different reason. At the same time though, she knows her man get’s like that right? So she should know better than to flirt in front of him making a scene. If she had a man at home or if her man didn’t care if she flirted that’s cool. But to do it in front of drunk internet dude when you know how he gets sounds like she’s just trying to start drama and that shit aint cool, nah mean? This aint Gossip Girl, bitch might have been hot, but we don’t need the drama. Xoxo Then again I didn’t see it myself so who knows.
Roissy,
Bitch slapping a man is the new sign of ultimate disrespect….. it’s now jumped to the top three things I must do in 08…. You might want to think about it next time you’re in this position
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Usually Lurking – Actually, there is one thing left in PC culture that you can shame someone for….for not being PC. For example some white yuppies tried to shame me last year for openly not giving a fuck about global warming and AL Gore and going green, calling it just a new bandwagon for liberals to use to proclaim their moral superiority over everyone else.
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There’s quite a sense of entitlement in this post. When did it become your right to dictate how sorry other people should feel when they do something you consider rude? For example, let’s say that I think you should feel embarrassed about this post. But if you don’t, does it matter that I think you should? Of course not.
Just because she was talking to you in a way you interpreted as flirty doesn’t mean she owes you anything. It’s likely that she was just making conversation with the guys her friends were talking to when you decided to approach. That was your decision. If she was the one approaching you, your outburst might have been valid, but given the situation, it comes off as petulant bluster.
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T., right on.
Yeah, I could have said that PC is the new and DOMINANT religion in the West. And blasphemy will get you shamed.
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It’s not about entitlement. This chick was trying to make guys fight over her for an ego boost. It was very deliberate. She had a tool boyfriend she used for her own amusement and ego boost, and he was too dumb to realize he was being played. And she tried to suck in unsuspecting strangers like Roissy into her little head games.
If she knows that’s how her man is, why would she talk in a flirty manner to Roissy, knowing how it would get her man worked up and in a mood to fight? And it’s obviously not the first time it happened based on what she said. Her ideal scenario would be if she could have gotten Roissy or some other strangers to actually come to blows with her boyfriend over her so that she could brag about how guys were fighting over her.
How is it entitlement to call out a chick that’s deliberately trying to manipulate two guys into fighting for her own amusement and ego? That’s why it was so important for Roissy to specifically let her know he was pissed with HER and not so much her man, and let her know that she needs to stick with chumps if she’s going to play those games.
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VK, we all know girls need drama in their lives. How else would you wind up with a scenario where a woman got caught on tape killing a man on the Gossip Girl tip. Wait, what?
I have on my agenda for ’08 at least one slap to lay down on a man. I’m taking it so seriously in fact that I’ve convinced my trainer to start out my focus pad combos with a slap. Element of surprise is key.
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You sure showed her.
I will say, I really hope I see someone slapped in my presence this year.
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VK, can I bitch slap a dude with a glove? or would I then have to challenge him to a duel?
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Yeah, I could have said that PC is the new and DOMINANT religion in the West. And blasphemy will get you shamed.
You guys read pickup blogs. If you can reverse engineer pickup to the point where ultra nerds learn to bed models, surely you can figure out a “method” for destroying PC idiots.
Shouldn’t someone be planning a social skillset to get around PC shaming? Then that guy could write an ebook and save the West.
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Strangely enough, this is one rare occasion when I agree with Roissy wholeheartedly. I’ve seen women do this kind of thing (I’ve also seen women start to flirt with my date when he was clearly “taken” for the moment) and I dislike it very much. Aside from anything else, it’s dangerous: it can lead to fights and other kinds of trouble, like being thrown out. I expect that sometimes it is accidental – the woman didn’t intend to flirt, she didn’t know her date would react with such volatility – but often enough it’s clearly deliberate.
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Great post — I’ve been in situations like this as well.
One addendum: In a case like this, if you wind up walking out with the girl thinking you’ve “won,” think again. If she gets off making one guy jealous, soon you will be that guy she is trying to upset. People don’t change, situations and characters in their lives do.
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when did “stink eye” — a Hawaii/surfer slang — become popular with hard-edge, button-down, East Coast types?
next you’ll be stoked to poke squid ?! hahahahaha
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Was your problem with her mainly that her date was a douche or that she was flirting with you even though she already had a date?
I run pick-up on girls in front of my girlfriend to keep her on her toes and to keep my skills sharp.
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” “Get this part of your life handled before you think about talking to guys like me again.” I walked off.”
I’ll be the little lonely voice in the wilderness again. Pardon me, but “guys like me”? Like she would know how awesome you are having just barely met you. It’s my humble opinion that you AND her date are losers. Sorry; and I unlike her, I really mean it. (little smile)
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…In a case like this, if you wind up walking out with the girl thinking you’ve “won,” think again. If she gets off making one guy jealous, soon you will be that guy she is trying to upset. People don’t change, situations and characters in their lives do.
You’re assuming he’s going to want to keep her around, if she gets dumped first she loses.
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It’s definitely uncool whenever anybody does this type of thing. Its pretty clear that whenever somebody flirts with you in a bar knowing that their boyfriend or girlfriend is watching, its pretty clear that they are just using you to make that person jealous. The last thing I want to do on my hard-earned weekends is to be dragged into some dysfunctional couple’s relationship drama.
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Hey roissy, I’m not the only one around here who changes their handle periodically.
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If you haven’t got the brass to pick up a girl whose internet date is post-verbally drunk, then there’s no way you have the cachet to “shame” her into doing or not doing anything. Break me a give.
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#9 T:
It’s not about entitlement. This chick was trying to make guys fight over her for an ego boost. It was very deliberate. She had a tool boyfriend she used for her own amusement and ego boost, and he was too dumb to realize he was being played. And she tried to suck in unsuspecting strangers like Roissy into her little head games.
You’re reading quite a bit into her motivations from Roissy’s description. How do you know she was being legitimately flirty and not simply making polite (but fun) conversation with a guy in a bar?
Plus, it’s a little rich that Roissy should call out a girl for playing jealousy games when one of his core recommendations for keeping your woman attracted is make her jealous by flirting with other women. How is that different from what this girl was doing, if in fact that’s what she was doing?
Let’s reverse the situation. You’re in a bar with two friends and a casual girlfriend. She’s pretty drunk, but you figure she’s all right. A third girl, a friend of the other two, walks up and starts talking to you, but you don’t find her that attractive. Still, to be polite — and to keep from messing up your friends’ conversations — you spend a few minutes speaking to this girl. She’s flirty, so you respond with some mild flirtation back, but nothing too serious.
Suddenly, your drunk pseudo-girlfriend grabs this girl’s arm. You push it away, but she does it again. You see the situation as sort of ridiculous, so you apologize to the girl with a grin on your face and explain the situation. The girl then scowls at you and says, “I’m done talking with you. Get this part of your life handled before you talk to girls like me again,” before stalking away.
Now, would your response to this be A) heartfelt chastisement, or B) laughter at her presumption?
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Wow, you could of been hurt very badly because that chic was looking for a prop for her self-esteem.
Men have been killed behind this type of BS.
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Holy hell, if you hate men so much that your goal is to SLAP one through the year, why the heck do you even get out of bed in the morning?
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shocked: MALAYSIA MAKE NEW RULES FOR CHRISTIANS!!
EVERY CHRISTIANS MUST SAY “ALLAH” RATHER THAN “GOD” & DONT SAY “TRINITY” ANYMORE..
This is because English language not suitable anymore because the original Bible is in Arabic.
The full story is here: ckasih.blogspot.com
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Very nice.
Good job on calling out the bitch for trying to use you and her boyfriend to pump her self-esteem up.
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24 Reggie
Your wrong. I ran bars for 17 years. She knew what she was doing. She admitted that “He gets like this” meaning it she knows how her actions will affect him. I have seen this more times than I can count. It seldom ends well and the girl enjoys the drama. The guy is usually saying “wtf just happened” as the drama unfolds.
Roissy- Well played. Fights in bars NEVER end well. Too many variables. And in that situation, she would would be smacking you in the back of the head with a bottle for beating up her boyfriend.
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It was a no-win situation for Roissy, so he did the right thing in walking away from her. Unfortunately, his little lecture could have destroyed Roosh & VK’s chances (and perhaps it did).
Also, the girl could have prevented the situation from ever occurring by: (i) keeping her BF from drinking too much; (ii) telling her BF to stop grabbing Roissy’s arm; (iii) slap her BF’s hand away from Roissy’s arm. She did none of these things, demonstrating that she didn’t care what would happen. She could remain the innocent bystander, and yet still enjoy the ego boost of having two men fight over her.
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“Shouldn’t someone be planning a social skillset to get around PC shaming? Then that guy could write an ebook and save the West.
”
-actually Roissy and co. will be the ones who actually destroy the west. you think all this rampant sex is okay for a civilization?? But these guys are so vain they actually think they know what is best for male behavior.
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Experience culled from working door in college tells me you did exactly right, Roissy.
If I had a dime for every fight that started because of this exact behavior on the part of some brainless twit, I’d never have had to work at the club in the first place. Maybe a better reaction would have been for Roissy and the drunk date to slap HER face.
Like Former Alpha, I saw (and participated in) way too many beat downs caused this sort of behavior.
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I agree with the crux of Roissy’s argument: hammer girls who–whether actively or passively–instigate fights over themselves in order to boost their egos–but I might have to give this round to Reggie. he makes a great point in his last post.
example of “actively” instigating a fight, which happened to me: years ago I was at a club in Va Beach. I was making my way onto the dance floor when some drunk slut with an open cup of beer bumped into me and sloshed half her drink on me. “Shit. You’re not supposed to have drinks on the dancefloor. Now look at me.” I said to her, pointing at the two foot long wet stain on my shirt and pants. “What did you say?” she replied. I repeated myself, to which she said, “I’m gonna get my boyfriend. He’s gonna kick your ass.” 5 seconds later some ogre was in my face. the situation difused without incident, but as I was preparing to come to blows with the boyfriend, I was vowing to myself that if I won the fight, the first thing I would do after finishing him would be to find that girl and knock her ass out too. call me a misogynist, but if, in a situation like this, a woman wants to sick her pitbull of a boyfriend on me “to kick my ass”, she better pray it works out for him or she’s gonna get it. this is mostly tongue in cheek, I wouldn’t really deck her, but there’s a 99% chance she would catch a hot bitch slap.
passive attempts are much more difficult to identify conclusively. Reggie makes a great point, but at the same time, I’m sure Roissy has been around enough to know whether or not the girl was genuinely flirting with him. he seems to think she was (which I guess begs the question: should Roissy have been able to identify the difference between sincere interest by the girl, and a girl trying to set a jealousy trap using him as the bait? is it even possible to tell the difference? I would guess not).
so, in this case, I think what I would have done would have been to give her a chance to prove her interest. I would’ve said something like, “Look, your boy over there is about to piss me off. Let’s get out of here. Let’s bounce to (the closest decent bar).” I would’ve grabbed her hand and started leading her away. if she came with, cool, she’s into me. if not, she’s either trying to set a jealousy trap or more concerned about dipshit. if she doesn’t wanna come with me, I might consider delivering a line like the one Roissy used.
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Sometimes… man, sometimes you just gotta kick a bitch
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Great post Roosh. To the person on this board who said there’s a sense of self-entitlement with how sorry a girl should be feeling, I think Roosh NAILS how a guy can feel in that situation, to the WALL. I almost think Roosh should have used those exact words TO the girl (not as advice, the words just jump out at me as honest). I’ve been in many situations where flaky bitches that asked ME to kick it, are so apologetic that they didn’t show up to the party i threw or something, and i say NOTHING, not a fucking word, i say ‘hey no worries next time’ or ‘yeah u’ll make it up to me later right?’ but i catch that perkiness in their apology. A girl apologized one time for not having lunch with me at work b/c she was worried they would think she’s a slut since I’m a guy and they were clowning her over me and her having lunch the day b4, and she kept saying sorry, laughing, how fucked up it was she dissed me like that. So I’ve heard the “i’m sorry” spiel enough to know girls do it, whether they are actually aware of it or not. I swear, not to sound paranoid, but its almost IF a girl IS apologizing to you in that manner, how she can never hang out (especially gay if it was her fucking idea), then she knows you are a weak male. I could be totally wrong, but saying something about it in a assertive way seems like it would be ripping her off her pedestal, letting her know you’re not going to let her get away with that shit.
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I like that line, I’ll have to use it.
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