Don’t answer all of a girl’s questions, especially when it feels like you are being interrogated. Refraining from giving her satisfactory answers helps move the seduction forward in two ways. One, it builds mystery. Two, if you answer all her questions she has more material with which to judge you when she gets home after the date and mulls everything over in her chaotic head. Don’t be surprised if you don’t get a call back after you have dutifully answered all her questions.
***
The best reason to learn game is that it is a shortcut to a woman’s pussy and heart. With game, you can stop wasting years as an empty vessel of society’s expectations scraping and clawing your way into a respectable bourgeois existence for your shot at one mediocre pussy and a gift registry at Williams & Sonoma. There is no need to become an “alpha among men” when you can skip the middleman and go straight to becoming an “alpha among women”. Of course, becoming an alpha among men is fun in its own right, but it’s no longer necessary to enjoy a life filled with the love of beautiful and sexy women. In fact, it never was necessary.
***
When the revelation that there is nothing after this life but the illimitable black void is grasped, hedonism is the only logical answer.
***
When a girl asks you “What are you thinking about right now?” know that this is code for “I’m really falling for you and want to know if you feel the same about me.” Don’t be an earnest beta and make the mistake of taking the bait! Avoid saying “I think I’m in love with you” or “I’m thinking about us” at all costs. Instead, say something like “I can’t think right now because you’ve paralyzed my thoughts.” Or, if you want to keep it simple, say “Um, nothing.”
Maxim #6: Never Make It Easy For A Girl
– Sometimes a girl will drop a stinky bait. Don’t bite! She wants to chase you around the lake forever.
***
Never tell a girl you are looking for a relationship. Many girls will ask, sometimes as early as the first date, what you are looking for from women. For the love of all that is holy and sacred do NOT say you are in the market for a relationship. Similarly, never say you wouldn’t mind “settling down”, or that you are discouraged by the dating scene, or you really wish you could stop dating around and find the right girl. It doesn’t matter if you truly feel this way; saying any of these out loud, especially to a girl you have just started dating, is poison to the seduction. Best to either ignore her probing question or answer vaguely along the lines of “I dunno, just dating until I find a girl I click with.” Also, saying “Whoa, not so fast tiger!” can be funny and stimulating to her vagina.
***
Slap your girl’s ass in public once in a while, hard. Territorial pissing is a turn-on in small spurts.
***
When you are with your girl and another alpha male is the center of attention (let’s say by being funny, or juggling balls) the best thing you can do is casually and briefly acknowledge his talents and otherwise ignore him. She will poke you for weakness whenever a bigger dog struts on the scene, so you’d be smart to be aware of this irrepressible female urge and not get defensive. NEVER imply that a bigger alpha is a threat to you, either in anger or in sarcastic putdown. You are who you are, which is the best she will ever have, so if some guy is a great karaoke singer and you’re offstage enjoying the show it’s no big deal — his skills cannot begin to compete with your total package, so you are free to compliment him without a hint of resentment.
Maxim #7: Your girl will thank you for your steadfast devotion to your belief in yourself.
***
When your girl buys you something or gets you a present, don’t immediately buy her something in return. No girl wants to feel like you got her a gift out of obligation. Tit for tat kills the sexy fun vibe. She appreciates your gifts when you are motivated by nothing else but your warm feelings for her. In this vein, it’s better to give her gifts at random times, rather than on birthdays, anniversaries, or holidays.
***
Speaking of gifts, the best players I know buy their girls NOTHING. And their girls love them with everything they have. Talk about trashing societal admonishments.
***
As a birthday gift for your girl, a grape seed oil massage beats a tennis bracelet EVERY TIME.
***
If you want to save money, doing things for a girl is always better than buying things for her. So, for example, learn photography and shoot sexy nude black and white photos of her. Or take her for a ride on a scooter through the countryside. She’ll appreciate that a lot more than a trendy item with a high price tag.
***
Fucking a girl right is worth more than a $20,000 engagement ring. I am not kidding.
There is no need to become an ”alpha among men” when you can skip the middleman and go straight to becoming an “alpha among women”. Of course, becoming an alpha among men is fun in its own right, but it’s no longer necessary to enjoy a life filled with the love of beautiful and sexy women.
A serious question (no Glorious Natural Pelt ranting): is it common for a man to be an alpha among men but a failure with women? I’ve known only one or two men who seem to have been in that category.
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peter, there is of course much overlap between the “alpha among men” and the “alpha among women”, but there are exceptions where a man may not be a natural leader yet be excellent with women and, alternately, where a man’s man may be missing the verbal skills or confidence to be successful with women.
i have known a few men in my life who were alphas among other men but for whatever reason had a miserable time trying to get laid.
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When the revelation that there is nothing after this life but the illimitable black void is grasped, hedonism is the only logical answer.
Hedonism can never last for long. No farms, no bridges, no roads, no buildings, nothing is ever accomplished. Soon enough the more productive people will invade and conquer.
However, that does not mean that the lonely nerds will inherit the Earth. It took at least 100 years for Venice to go from its height of Power and Wealth to an unproductive tourist trap. More like 400 years. So, when the gettin’ is good, get yourself some hedonistic delight. Then, knock one of them up and move to the suburbs.
——————
Long Live the Glorious Natural Pelt!!!
(just doing my part)
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Does excessive hedonism not also lead to a black void? And you’re wrong about the black void after this life, anyway. The black void is here in this life. There are studies to prove it.
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Is Usually Lurking the same as Ian Lewis?
Sara has been becoming wiser, if not smarter.
Roissy speaks half-truths.
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Sorry roissy. I know you hate it (and me? lol) when I post too many comments even if they’re short like this one BUT I just have to ask your big brain a question. How LOGICAL is LIFE itself? How LOGICAL is it that you/we EXIST at all???? Get a grip! Or rather, let loose your grip, mon.
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5 Hope
Thank you. I have been wise, yet dumb, and fucked up, all at the same time. And mercury toxic. Bear with me while I take a dump. Yes, my brain fog is lifting. This is true; I was mercury poisoned at birth, leading to a birth defect, leading to misdiagnosis, leading to torturous malpractice worthy treatments on my little female parts, leading to transplant type waiting list health damage, leading to 7 years of more tortuous on the female parts treatments, leading to destroyed immune system, leading to infertility and pre-cancer, infertility, extreme depression and abuse, leading to….. Had enough? Me too!
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It’s good to learn so-called game because it makes your life better overall.
You’ll have a chance to be with more women who are more attractive (outside and inside) than you’d otherwise experience.
And yes, you may as well enjoy life while you have it because as you said, the “black void” is coming for us all.
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BTW, I think it’s possible to enjoy life’s pleasures AND still be a productive member of society. Enjoying the company of attractive women is one (important) kind of pleasure, but there are many others.
Perhaps “hedonism” is the wrong word since people make a mental jump to drunken Roman orgy when you use it.
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I will agree that people tend to (incorrectly) think more money spent = more love. I think you have spun it way out of line though! If you purposely don’t spend money as a method of manipulation, that’s just kind of weird.
I know guys don’t have inordinate amounts of money to spend; showing people you care by being good to them is better than trying to let your money dazzle them. At the same time, stop making something psychological which already has a less cold basis.
“the best players I know buy their girls NOTHING. And their girls love them with everything they have.”
I don’t think it’s all causation here. Maybe the girls don’t make the guy feel like they have to buy them something to keep them. Sometimes you just care for people who don’t express their affection with “things”.
When people see you have an ulterior motive, they start having ulterior motives too. Girls aren’t things to be bought off, but if you’re in a relationship that means anything to you, that kind of head game is asking for trouble.
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My God, I finally agree with you on someone, most notably your last statement. Truer words were never said.
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“What are you thinking about right now?”
Possibly the most annoying question that all girls ask. The truthful answer is often tits, fucking one of your friends or something related to math, physics or finance. My answer is usually “nothing” or “I don’t feel like explaining”. Occasionally my response is “nothing bitch”.
Don’t answer all of a girl’s questions, especially when it feels like you are being interrogated.
You should also lie and hold back about some of the things you do answer. The dirty sluts who put out often wan’t to hear that I’m pro-choice, but they don’t want to know that I find abortion disgusting and any woman who gets one for non-medical reasons to be worthless.
Sara
The black void is here in this life. There are studies to prove it.
What the hell does this even mean?
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“What the hell does this even mean?”
I think by ‘black void is here in this life’ she means that life is difficult and often without obvious meaning. ‘There are studies to prove it’ is Sara’s way of playfully responding to her many critics here that she often cites her feelings as facts and fails to provide evidence for her opinions.
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These posts cause Dimone counselling Rat flashbacks.
When do we get to the part about Led Zeppelin 4?
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The main purpose of game for me is getting young females.
Let’s be honest here. Do women care about money? Yes, But usually it’s the women above the age of 25. Women aged 25-40 care a lot about money. But if you want a 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, and even 23 year old girlfriend money doesn’t do much. Daddy still pays all of the expenses. Game is the key to young females.
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Good observations and advice Roissy. You’re right, but few men have the courage to live life on their own terms, rather than society’s terms. The programming is simply way too ingrained by the time they read the type of information you’re providing. Internal skepticism will prevent them from leaving the path society has set for them. Unfortunately, they will never know whether they would have been better off by doing so.
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“there is of course much overlap between the “alpha among men” and the “alpha among women” ”
In our ancient past the two were one and the same but those clever boys in the PUA community figured out how to decouple the two and thus the cold calculation for notches was born.
“When the revelation that there is nothing after this life but the illimitable black void is grasped, hedonism is the only logical answer.”
True but I have a hard time believing that a society that has embraced narcissism as a cultural pillar can sustain itself in the long term.
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The main purpose of game for me is getting young females.
This is somewhat true. You’re right that they don’t care about money — you can hang out at a club that costs $5 to get into and has cheap drinks, and they prefer Burger King over a restaurant. So Game is more important than money.
But some aspects of Game were designed to work specifically on females who are 25 and older. For example, Mystery says that by the time they are 23, hot girls have been hit on X number of times, so they’re suspicious, need to be negged, approached very indirectly, etc.
However, when they’re 18, they haven’t been hit on that much — a pretty girl in high school may have lots of cowardly boys her age thinking about her, but guys don’t start blatantly hitting on her until college. That’s another reason why college freshmen are better than seniors, on average, and why college girls are better than late 20-somethings, on average.
For any guys who are capable of gaming the younger college girls — do it. They are a bit more flakey and coy / resistant, but they are not spoiled and confrontational like the girls who have been hit on 50,000 times in one way or other.
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I agree with the not telling a girl exactly what you’re looking for. If you are interested too soon, that’s a red flag.
Most of the girls I know (in college) probably don’t know exactly what they’re after anyway. If you know and we don’t, that’s bad. If we know and you don’t, that “can” change.
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great point agnostic, in a way the high school environment is more similar to the small tribal environment than the big, atomized city. approaching a hottie in high school and getting shot down can lose you some serious cred, it may even hamper your potential until graduation. the simple act of graduation demolishes all previous social structures and you can start anew. so yeah, girls aren’t approached that much in high school, and seem to have serious low self-esteem. how many high school hotties have you seen with absolute douchebags? it’s ridiculous.
but then when the status ladder collapses after graduation men no longer fear the consequences of a bad approach to the same extent, while concurrently girls are branching out into larger cities where they’re cat-called on an hourly basis by men of all ages, so the approach rate for the average girl rises dramatically, and her ego and bitch-shield follow linearly.
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– Sometimes a girl will drop a stinky bait.
And if she does it on your bedsheets, get the hell out of there.
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12 Patrick
What I mean in saying the black void is here, is that death, though used as a punishment, would be the last thing you would ever give to your enemies if you knew what it was. Hitler experienced hell when he was here and was released from it when he died. God is not vindictive and jealous; people are. Hang on and I’ll Google the study on that. x_x
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^ Further; death is the ultimate orgasm–or can be if you know the truth of it. Film at 11.
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Hedonism can never last for long. No farms, no bridges, no roads, no buildings, nothing is ever accomplished. Soon enough the more productive people will invade and conquer.
horseshit, for at least three reasons.
1) the longer technology marches on, the more ‘productive’ work is mechanized, meaning that true productivity rests in the hands of a continually dwindling fraction of the human race. once the singularity arrives, true productivity will be entirely the bailiwick of a.i.’s.
or:
over 80% of our economy is now ‘services’. does that mean that vietnam, with its incredibly productive workers (including kids!) in factories, is gearing up to invade us?
2) contrary to popular belief (which is ‘popular’ largely because of christian guiltmongering), people whose pleasure centers are stimulated regularly are MORE industrious, motivated, and productive than their counterparts.
3) common sense, people: roissy doesn’t mean devoting life EXCLUSIVELY to pleasure; he just doesn’t see any reason for even a slight degree for asceticism.
there are settings between 0 and 10, you know.
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“When the revelation that there is nothing after this life but the illimitable black void is grasped, hedonism is the only logical answer.”
Of course, that must mean when the revelation comes that there is an afterlife, utilitarianism would be the logical answer..
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paperdreamer: Girls aren’t things to be bought off, but if you’re in a relationship that means anything to you, that kind of head game is asking for trouble.
women, like other creatures, become habituated to consistent stimuli, coming to expect those stimuli after a while. if a man plies his woman with expensive gifts – especially on ‘designated’ occasions, such as vaj day, birthdays, anniversary, etc. – she WILL begin to expect the flow of such gifts to continue, and WILL be indignant if it doesn’t. it is therefore best to establish the baseline at zero.
roissy is, as usual, right: the best time for expensive gifts is the day after never, and the best time for moderately priced gifts is completely at random (not on the aforementioned designated days, and definitely not as a form of apology).
—
p.s. paperdreamer: the last sentence (about ‘asking for trouble’) is pure bilge. if you really believe that, then you have never experienced anything even closely approximating love. check back in when you’re older.
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johnny five, reductio ad absurdum is uncharacteristic of you.
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fucking smileys.
roissy, there is a gun pointed directly at the pleasure centers in your head.
turn off the smileys.
NOW.
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johnny five, reductio ad absurdum is uncharacteristic of you.
it’s rare for the absurdum to be so obvious and the reductio so simple.
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over 80% of our economy is now ’services’. does that mean that vietnam, with its incredibly productive workers (including kids!) in factories, is gearing up to invade us?
Johnny, what did Los Angeles look like in 1961? What does it look like today? Yes, people have been dying to get in America for a while now. Same for Britain, France, Sweden, etc.
I understand that many of these people are not skilled, but who are working the farms in California? Who are building the homes in New Jersey? Who is doing the plumbing in France? Immigrants
It is already happening.
contrary to popular belief (which is ‘popular’ largely because of christian guiltmongering), people whose pleasure centers are stimulated regularly are MORE industrious, motivated, and productive than their counterparts.
Good, get your freak on. But if you and your neighbor dedicate yourselves to hedonism, somebody else will need to work the fields.
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Great advice! This explains why we all do better with women we don’t really care about or like: Because we act this way naturally to fend them off.
Also, Johnny Five is again right. Christian guilt-mongering was invented to control men’s desires and enslave them into lives of servitude. The problem comes when these robots try to enslave the rest of us with laws about what we can watch, who we can and can’t date and what we can and can’t say in the workplace. And feminism is just another religion.
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#30 u.l.
the singularity will come before the takeover.
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Well, for the Angelenos, it is already too late.
And if demographic trends are to be believed, it is already too late for many parts of Europe, and, possibly, America.
Idiocracy is well under way.
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26 johnny five
It’s generally true that once you do something, you can’t go back! Same with gifts that have to be better than last year’s, etc.
What I meant was that you shouldn’t be so calculating about what you do. Maybe it’s rare, but wouldn’t most people be able to see that you’re holding back, just to hold back and be mad? It’s okay not to give something you can’t afford and to be up front about it. Maybe it does change as people get older though.
It might work for a short while, but in the long run, each time you do something in an effort to “have the upper hand” I will know. And it will slowly eat away at whatever chances you ever had at making it the long run.
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Also, when I’m older, I’m pretty sure this blog asks that I NOT check back. Take it while it’s still fresh right?
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“the singularity will come before the takeover.”
Of course, because as we all know at some point in the early twenty-first century, all of mankind will be united in celebration. Marveling at our own magnificence as we give birth to AI. A singular consciousness that will spawn an entire race of machines. Finally making “game” obsolete as human beings are turned into batteries for the machines. Wonderful. Sure, save the money you would spend on your mystery method seminars to buy cool sunglasses and long leather coats.
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31 DOBA “Christian guilt-mongering was invented to control men’s desires and enslave them into lives of servitude”
It’s my understanding that Christian guilt-mongering is an attempt by priests to control the masses-men, women, and children-by instilling in them the belief that they:
Are sinners behaving in un-Godlike fashion requiring God’s salvation which can be gotten only through them, in order to prevent the condemnation of God resulting in eternal pain and suffering unimaginable in this time/space reality.
If we don’t believe that, what the fuck do we need them for?
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I understand that many of these people are not skilled, but who are working the farms in California? Who are building the homes in New Jersey? Who is doing the plumbing in France? Immigrants
That’s because they let masses of poor people in to compete for the jobs. Finland has kept mass immigration out so far and the average plumber gets paid much better than the average university professor (as he should, since he’s doing productive work while the average professor is net minus to society). Mass immigration is just class war against the domestic poor.
(Besides, in most European countries it’s the immigrants who refuse to work…)
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What johnny five said about the fucking smileys.
Argh.
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Roissy. “Never tell a girl you are looking for a relationship. Many girls will ask, sometimes as early as the first date, what you are looking for from women.”
This is categorically a mistake women make. AGAIN they are taking a masculine role, although they probably believe they are just being “assertive”. As much as you SAY, roissy, that you want women to jump through your hoops, if you’re a masculine man, in reality you do not.
Much better than she tell you SHE is looking for a relationship and see how you react to that. She’s setting herself up for failure by holding her cards close and feeling you out about YOUR intentions. She will probably think that her charms and tight vag muscles will make you see the light eventually. How many women have made this mistake? Was it Johnny Five who said something about women being the gatekeepers?
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Hedonism can never last for long. No farms, no bridges, no roads, no buildings, nothing is ever accomplished.
I don’t think this is true. Musicians still make great music despite the ample amount of time they spend taking drugs and bedding women. The music is part of their hedonism.
I think this is true for many men; their work or source of income is also their accomplishment, their source of status and pride, and a large part of their life enjoyment.
And those who never find their calling, godblessum, can still “Work for the Weekends”.
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Hedonism only fails when the state is there as a safety net.
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“This is categorically a mistake women make. AGAIN they are taking a masculine role, although they probably believe they are just being “assertive”. As much as you SAY, roissy, that you want women to jump through your hoops, if you’re a masculine man, in reality you do not.”
Not really, it’s natural for the woman to want her potential alpha husband to also be a good provider.
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As an aside, very odd proof that looks aren’t everything: the woman Shania Twain’s husband left her for. Here’s the link:
http://thesuperficial.com/2008/05/shania_twains_soon_to_be_exhus.php
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35 paperdreamer
Take it while it’s still fresh right?
I’m glad you understand our wisdom.
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“As a birthday gift for your girl, a grape seed oil massage beats a tennis bracelet EVERY TIME.”
not true. i’m glad you’re not buying my gifts! come on, roissy. you of all people should know there’s no ‘ultimate gift’ that all girls dream of for their birthday.
boys, all you have to do is LISTEN to your gf, she will drop hints on what to get (lots of hints if it’s something she really wants).
and the thing about being good in bed beating a $20,000 engagement ring?? it shouldn’t be an either/ or scenario. a good enough girl can get both.
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46 sigh
Maybe what roissy is saying is that a good enough girl doesn’t require a $20,000 engagement ring.
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45 agnostic
Ouch! You bite hard.
I understand it. I just always used to think the stuff I read here was a generalization/ exaggeration of guy thought. I am learning…
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I have a serious question for everyone: How old are you all? This may go a long way to explain all of your comments. The older you get, the more serious things you have to think about such as death and illness of loved ones like your parents, or work matters. It may sound really boring, but it’s a much happier existence than obsessing over irrelevant matters like gender diferences- it smacks of shallow personalities. The older you get the less time you realize you have and that makes you just want to enjoy your time with people you care about.
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sara, a good enough girl doesn’t require an engagement ring but why turn one down when the man of your dreams offers it?
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As a 45 y.o. man, I somewhat agree with the above post, but also will point out that greater amounts of divorce, etc. make life less structured and more complex than in previous generations.
I am divorced, with two kids, and it cost me about $100,000 and several years of litigation just to spend 50% of my time with them, so now I am in an interesting position – dating, while also being a part time single parent.
I have my kids, I don’t want to get remarried, and I love beautiful women. With the exception of my two beautiful daughters, my marriage was a nightmare.
My advice to the young men out there is to delay marriage as long as you can, and get familiar with family law before you even think of getting married. Legally, financially and socially, marriage is for women, not for men.
Stay free, enjoy your lives, and bed as many women as possible. Once you have some money in the bank and you want to settle down, be very careful about who you choose, as, you’ll have a 50% chance of getting divorced and if it happens, she will initiate divorce about 80% of the time.
Don’t buy any of the bullshit or shaming language women give you to push you into marriage. Stay single as long as you can.
A quote from the essay “Don’t Get Married” which relates to the topic of this thread (http://tinyurl.com/esol):
“Another good friend of mine, going through a divorce after 30 years of marriage, had some great advice that I didn’t follow: “Tell her ‘No’ and see what happens.” Just start telling her “No,” even if it’s no big deal, just to see what happens. Start gradually, once or twice with little things, but then build up to saying “No” to big, important things. If your relationship blows apart as a result, thank God that you didn’t marry her.
I know: it’s the hardest thing in the world to say “No” to your lady-love, because you just know that she’s going to get you back for it. That is if she doesn’t dump your ass outright. But that’s the point: take the plunge, and find out early. Don’t be like me: I was so nice from the very beginning, believing that I was showing her love and gentleness, which is what all women say they want, right? Well, rather than getting love and gentleness in return, all I did was teach her that she could do anything at all and I wouldn’t complain, which is exactly what she does to this day.
You should stop being nice to any woman you’re even vaguely serious about. It’s only then that you have a chance of finding out what she’s really going to be like. That is, unless she’s smart enough to hold her tongue until the ring is on her finger. Then you’re toast.”
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50 sigh
I would not turn it down OR require it. My own engagement ring was a quality 1/2 carat with rubies. For the same price, I could have had a lesser quality 1 carat diamond. In this case size didn’t matter.
51 anon too
“stop being nice to any woman you’re even vaguely serious about. It’s only then that you have a chance of finding out what she’s really going to be like. That is, unless she’s smart enough to hold her tongue until the ring is on her finger. Then you’re toast.””
#1 This is astounding advice. I’m nearly speechless. You call this wisdom? LOL Sorry, but this is pretty far down the evolutionary scale. This is just victim turned asshole. Big deal. Any idiot can do this. If it gets you laid, so what? You’re still an idiot. Sorry, I know that sounds pretty harsh, but sometimes I can’t help it. ^_^
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To the above post: It sounds like you shouldn’t have gotten married, which is your own fault. I truly think people get married either too quickly and/or too young or for the wrong reasons like just not wanting to be alone. By alone, I don’t mean relationships, but rather the inability to just be by yourself and not be surrounded by people. Whenever I travel by myself, other “backpackers” who are alone are almost never American. I do think Americans are terrified of not constantly having someone around them, male or female. If you are truly happy with yourself, a nice relationship will likely follow, but if not, don’t blame it on other people. I have yet to find many people who will just randomly buy a ticket to some country, get on a plane, explore said country and come back entirely on their own. I want my boyfriend to be happy with himself and to be comfortable alone, oherwise it won’t work out, regardless of who I am.
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See, you all are obsessed with such topics as engagement rings, which is an utterly boring topic. I mean, use the money to go on an awesome trip, or buy some new equipment and take up an interesting hobby. Most couples are so boring. But then again, they said DC is the ugly man’s Hollywood. I don’t know about ugly, but definitely boring= the worst sin.
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53 anonymous
“I want my boyfriend to be happy with himself and to be comfortable alone, oherwise it won’t work out, regardless of who I am.”
Where did YOU come from? LOL That is exactly how I feel. If you can’t be alone, all you’re going to do is exploit the other person and that unfortunately does not turn out well.
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Sara,
So glad someone agrees with me:)
By the way, off topic: is there surfing near DC? Also, how far is the neaest big mountain?
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I meant “nearest”
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“I want my boyfriend to be happy with himself and to be comfortable alone, oherwise it won’t work out, regardless of who I am.”
I agree withthat, and to some extent I got married too early.
But I also didn’t realize all the legal and financial benefits conferred to women upon divorce. Had I known about the reality of marriage I would have waited at least 10 years later before getting married.
Whther it’s the right time or not, men need to get a prenup just to make the system less unfair to themselves.
Most men are romantics pretending to be practical. And most women are pragmatists pretending to be romantic.
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“stop being nice to any woman you’re even vaguely serious about. It’s only then that you have a chance of finding out what she’s really going to be like. That is, unless she’s smart enough to hold her tongue until the ring is on her finger. Then you’re toast.””
#1 This is astounding advice. I’m nearly speechless. You call this wisdom? LOL Sorry, but this is pretty far down the evolutionary scale. This is just victim turned asshole. Big deal. Any idiot can do this. If it gets you laid, so what? You’re still an idiot. Sorry, I know that sounds pretty harsh, but sometimes I can’t help it. ^_^
No, it’s not. Marriage is not your girlfriend on her best day, everyday. It’s her on her worst day, everyday. Once she’s your wife, she often reveals her true self.
As a woman, you most likely won’t have to give up your kids, house and a huge chunk of your future income upon divorce. Thus your ignorant, romance-based view of the institution.
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Anonymous Too,
I don’t know you, nor do I know what you went through, but it sounds like you are very angry and upset about your experience, and that’s normal but don’t let it color the rest of your life. I’ll leave you with a story and you can’t take it or leave it, for whatever it’s worth:
My parents had the best relationship for my whole life; they even worked together. I think it’s because they traveled the whole world together (in the hippy way, not the 5-star way). However, when I was in college my father died of cancer after a 2-year battle and my mom was emotionally and financially devastated. I will never forget her telling me she would never love again (which made me sad). 7 years later, when she was 59, after rebuilding her life and meeting loads of new people she randomly befriended a 61 year-old man who lived down the road and had lost his 2nd wife to cancer as well. They eventually became a couple and are the happiest people in the world. They still keep their seperate houses, but they travel together and share hobbies together. The reason why I told you this long-winded story is to let you know that if you let your ex-wife color view of love/friendship and color your your future, you will probably never find happiness. Also, if you don’t give yourself time to heal and be alone for a while, you may substitute loneliness for something worse. So just hang in there!
Sorry for such a long story, but I like trying to cheer people up.
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Hmm. Sounds hopeful, and thanks for the anecdote. But on the whole, my ex and I get along well – we have to because we each parent the kids 50% of the time.
But the cold, hard reality of divorce for men that no one cares about is that it often destroys them because fathers aren’t counted as shit by the system, and women feel they are entitled to be fulltime parents, no matter how badly they parent their children.
I was almost homeless twice, and in California, if I live with a women earning some money, my child support goes up. My ex, meanwhile can shack up with a millionaire, and her check from me is unaffected under the law.
The system is completely fucked up if you’re a man, and I have to say, I hate it. I hope I meet someone down the road (my kids are no longer super young, so now I’d feel better about that), but I’ll be damned if I ‘m getting married again.
Sadly, in my experience, the marriage part is more important to a hell of a lot of women than who it is they are actually marrying. And of late I’ve found that to be a real turn off.
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Oh, and I’ve been divorced for about 6 years now, but litigation-free for only about two years. Maybe I do need more time alone.
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56 anon
Surfing? I have no idea. I live in California. Try Surfers Point at Rincon Beach.
59 “As a woman, you most likely won’t have to give up your kids, house and a huge chunk of your future income upon divorce. ”
What did she give up? Nothing, huh? Or very little? How many cents on the dollar was it actually worth? Nada?
“Marriage is not your girlfriend on her best day, everyday. It’s her on her worst day, everyday. Once she’s your wife, she often reveals her true self.”
It is true that women who pursue marriage with a vengeance often feel trapped after the fact, but her true self is her loving self. (As is yours.) It’s the outside that’s hard to deal with, not the inside. It’s the personality, defenses, fixations, and hang ups that challenge us. It’s the inside most are afraid to reveal, maybe even to themselves. So you did not bring out the best in each other?
I’ve been married twice and had a career through both marriages, but quit when my daughter was born in my second marriage. The career was a cake walk by comparison. Long lunches, schmoozing with coworkers, department birthday parties, mai tais with lunch….and some work got done too…AND I got paid! I think in Sweden or someplace women get paid to stay home with their kids. Go figger.
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61 anon too
Not to be so cold-hearted. I do agree that divorce is hard. It may look like your wife is on easy street, but I doubt that very much. If you want to know the truth–study body language like a lawyer selecting a jury. My ex-boyfriend is out fucking around and acting like he’s having the time of his life just to get back at me for God only knows what. His body language reveals that he is a phony piece of shit. Sorry, I just can’t help myself. ^_^
Good luck to you. Venting is good. Being alone is great. There is a big difference between being lonely and being alone. Alone is a positive. Think of it as “all one”. Do the work on yourself. Be relentless in self-examination so you never find yourself in that tragic, unhappy, shitty situation again. You don’t “deserve” it, but you were unwittingly asking for it. Not consciously, but unconsciously.
It helps of course to examine your ex’s flaws too…..with a 100x magnifying glass. LOL But it’s good that you get along. Kids make that imperative, unless you’re sociopathic. It doesn’t sound like you are, thankfully.
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60
They eventually became a couple and are the happiest people in the world. They still keep their seperate houses, but they travel together and share hobbies together.
based on the notable omission of the ‘m’ word here, i will infer that they never bothered to marry – which means that you are actually reinforcing anon too’s point.
—
64
Not to be so cold-hearted. I do agree that divorce is hard. It may look like your wife is on easy street, but I doubt that very much. If you want to know the truth–study body language like a lawyer selecting a jury. My ex-boyfriend is out fucking around and acting like he’s having the time of his life just to get back at me for God only knows what. His body language reveals that he is a phony piece of shit. Sorry, I just can’t help myself.
and the relationship between your ex-boyfriend’s body language and the financial ramifications of divorce would be… what exactly?
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J5,
“based on the notable omission of the ‘m’ word here, i will infer that they never bothered to marry – which means that you are actually reinforcing anon too’s point.”
I’m not trying to prove any point. I just wanted someone who seemed to have gone through a hard time to know that people can start over at any age and still have a good life. By the way, are you married? I’m not sure why you’re so focused on the topic.
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Anonymous Too,
Last thing: I obviously don’t know how you feel, but I think you correct about the legal system in regards to divorce- it’s very broken and antiquated. Also, you’re right about pre-nups since they may reduce legal fees and increase efficiency. I hope you do find someone who is a great person and doesn’t want to marry for marriage sake. Maybe your best bet is to date someone who is really active (not gym active), like a surfer:) My theory is that you and your partner can act like total dorks together, then you’re good to go!
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48 paperdreamer
Ouch! You bite hard.
I know, don’t I?
I understand it. I just always used to think the stuff I read here was a generalization/ exaggeration of guy thought. I am learning…
Don’t worry, you have good teachers; I used to tutor for 2 1/2 years. I’m pretty strict, though, so be sure not to slack off. If you pass, I’ll give you a rainbow sticker to wear on your forehead — to show all the lazier students how cool and smart you are!
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The worst part for me was not seeing my kids for a long time. What did she give up? Not much. She was getting about $4800/month tax free for over one and a half years – more of my paycheck than I took home. And she had the kids about 90% of the time.
In CA, if you don’t have your kids at least 30% of the time, the other parent can leave the state, country, whatever, without notifying you. If the other parent is a man, it’s termed kidnapping. If it’s the mother, well, them’s the breaks.
I really enjoy spending time with my kids, so to all you young ones here, let me tell you: nothing is more deeply satisfying than seeing your kids thrive and be happy.
I like being alone, but I come from an immigrant family (Mom-Iran, Dad-Poland), and am used to a real traditional, extended family household. Now that my kids are a bit older, I think I can start looking for a serious relationship, but women in their late 20s all want mariage and divorced women 35+ seem very angry and sexless, at least in my experience. At this point, I have no expectations – just want to see what the coming years will bring…
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Oh, and surfing near DC? Try Ocean City MD. It sucks, but the waves everywhere else are all pretty sucky from my vantage point in San Diego 🙂
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I like being alone, but I come from an immigrant family (Mom-Iran, Dad-Poland),
you live in california, so it looks like the persians win.
be glad; detroit sucks.
—
incidentally, what kind of food did you eat growing up? i like both persian and polish food a lot, and would have no problem eating a heaping plate of tah dig + koobideh + kielbasa + kiszka. mmm. this is why i will accumulate lots of wisdom as i get older, most of it around my midsection.
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Hahaha – Persian food wins, hands down. I am trying to shed 10 lbs – no more tah dig for me, but I miss all that rice and butter…
My ex is Japanese – English, so we have a lot of weird combinations at my house when I have the kids here. Mizutaki with tsukemono + Persian rice, etc…
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I am trying to shed 10 lbs
if you’re hardcore enough, you should try this diet. if you follow it properly – especially in terms of inserting workouts at the proper times – you will shed bodyfat extremely quickly, and you’ll still be able to eat just about anything you want for 2 days/week.
and if you don’t work out (or don’t anymore), you should start (or start again). if you are 50ish, fit, and confident, you’ll discover a whole world of women who are neither marriage-obsessed nor angry and sexless.
this diet is easier to follow if you don’t have a woman at home cooking meals that are
* delicious
* hearty
* loaded with the sentimental value characteristic of home-cooked meals, and
* completely incompatible with the diet.
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69 anon too
In CA the split is 50/50. What is it where you are? All I wanted was what I could legally claim; 50%. At first my ex hired a lawyer and wanted to fight it. He paid the lawyer a lot of money which bit into his 50%. He finally saw the light and we used a self-help document service, added up the assets and split them in half. Do you think that is fair? Legally I could have gotten alimony much longer than what I asked for, because I did not want to be dependent on it that long. I think this might make me a saint.
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If it was never necessary to become an alpha among men, I suspect there is a value in it that motivated men to pursue it.
There’s more to life, even if it ends in a black void, than simple pleasures. It’s sad if one can’t see that.
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65 J5
Yes, I strayed from the topic, but my comments were still sparkling with multi-faceted brilliance.
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sara
you are a saint.
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sara – I am in CA, too, but generally the woman gets the young kids in a divorce.
Then, she gets the marital home, child support, alimony and a host of other assets. Also, the man has to continue paying for her life insurance, and there are other trailing benefits.
No sane wealthy man should get married in CA.
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ah the star-sticker-on-the-head routine, money. double money if you have a teaching kind of job and have a reason to carry them around.
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Stats for divorces in the US are something like 85% woman-initiated. I suspect that in most of those it’s simply the woman deciding that she no longer wants to be with her sorry schmuck Beta husband.
I’ve heard of a few raw-deal divorce cases too. I mean, for men who clearly had done nothing to justify a punishing court outcome. That is, they didn’t cheat on their wife, beat her, drink, abandon her, or do anything else that would justify a punitive court judgment or.
I wonder why more men who were f’d by a divorce court don’t do what one guy in his mid-30s I know did: quit his well-paying job, move to another state, rent a cheap room in a big college town, get a job as a dishwasher, and date young women.
I also wonder how many men simply thought along the lines of civil disobedience: just refuse to pay. Prerequisite: accept that you have nothing to lose and you don’t care what they do to you. Jail? “that’s fine by me.”
Just wondering, hypothetically. I am not advocating breaking of law or disobeying court judgments.
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Jail? “that’s fine by me.”
That’s because most county jails in this country are downright scary places, and most are bad enough to encourage any middle class male to simply keep paying child support. Let’s not even discuss the actual state of our prisons…
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I also wonder how many men simply thought along the lines of civil disobedience: just refuse to pay.
there is a third option. leave the country. make sure you are untraceable.
a lot of the problems with marriage and divorce theft would be solved if no-fault divorce was abolished. then you wouldn’t have scenarios of wives leaving their loyal beta husbands for no good reason while collecting half his wealth by state-sanctioned robbery.
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A lot of guys in Argentina who don’t want to pay alimony simply change their domiciles (directions). The police is so overworked that they never find you, and you can’t jail a man more than twice a month for more than two days for not paying child support.
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“there is a third option. leave the country. make sure you are untraceable.”
I don’t see myself staying in this country for the long haul anyway. When the bloody collapse comes, I will be watching comfortably in my study in another country, cigar and scotch in hand.
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“No sane wealthy man should get married in CA.”
Nor in PA, either, apparently. I work with a good, decent guy whose wife cheated & left him. She’s spent the last 6 years divorcing him, forcing him to sell his house (where he’s raising their two children, as the court was sensible enough to award him primary custody,) and systematically fleecing him out of stuff she’s completely not entitled to by any rational standard. Except she is, by law. SHE CHEATED, and she’s *still* not done ripping his life to shreds!
A good old-fashioned drawing and quartering is too good for her, and I have no sympathy whatsoever simply because I’m also a woman. It’s sickening.
I don’t think the answer is to never get married, necessarily, but damn, don’t do it on a whim, and don’t let your heart (or your dick) overrule your sense.
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I wonder why more men who were f’d by a divorce court don’t do what one guy in his mid-30s I know did: quit his well-paying job, move to another state, rent a cheap room in a big college town, get a job as a dishwasher, and date young women.
the problem here is that they would order a ‘vocational examination’, from which they would figure out his so-called earning potential. then they would probably impute his former income to him, meaning that he’d be stuck paying more than 100% of his income in child support.
No sane wealthy man should get married in CA.
ironically, it’s not the wealthy men who have the most to worry about; it’s the middle-class men, who really don’t have the financial wherewithal to handle losing half, or more, of everything.
if a wealthy man used to be worth $2X million and is now worth “only” X million because of his divorce, then yes, that sucks, but in the big picture it’s not such a big deal. as an admittedly extreme example, i don’t feel bad for sir paul mccartney at all,* because even losing 80-90% of his net worth wouldn’t make a dent in his lifestyle – and any man with common sense could have predicted the outcome of a marriage between a beatle and a former porn star.**
now show me a guy making $60k a year shopping for engagement rings, and i’ll show you a disaster waiting to happen.
*rather, i feel sort of thankful, because never has the truth about western marriage been laid so bare for so many to see.
**i’m sorry, ‘glamour model’.
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I don’t think the answer is to never get married, necessarily
i just love when people say this, as if marriage is just a default state from which you need really strong excuses to deviate.
thought experiment: let’s say that not getting married is the default state. provided i’m not a gigolo with a high-flying executive fiancee, i would like to hear ONE, just one, reason i should ever consider marriage.
and by the way, that means marriage. do not tout the benefits of long-term relationships or children as proxies, because those can be had without marriage. i mean give me ONE reason to sign on the dotted line.
go.
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johnny five, there is no reason that someone else can give you to convince you to change your views, and there is no need. I’m no evangelical marriageist. You can force someone to do something, but you can’t force someone to change their heart and mind.
Something interesting from T’s post yesterday:
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If you get married, there are legal benefits:
1. Joint insurance
2. If you become ill and unable to speak for yourself, your spouse can act will be first in line to act as your HCA (think Terry Shiavo). The true benefit of this depends on if your spouse knows and agrees with your care decisions as compared to your adult child or (living) parents/relatives.
3. Automatic inheritance rights
4. Government program benefits extended for spouses (social security)
5. Tax stuff
5. and other things…
It’s important to make the right decision when you think about getting married. Because I haven’t ever been faced with the decision of marriage, you might say I have no place to be saying anything about it. But people do meet someone they want to protect after they’re gone. They want that person to be the one that makes the decisions when they’re not at their best.
I think marriage was probably supposed to be as cliched as it seems: when all the game is gone and there’s nothing left but you, but it’s still okay.
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“i just love when people say this, as if marriage is just a default state from which you need really strong excuses to deviate.”
But where did I say that? Nowhere. What I said was that just because some people are pieces of shit who will take advantage of the situation is not a reason to demonize the entire institution of marriage which, apparently, *does* work for some people.
That is all. Anything else you infer from it is of your manufacture, not mine.
“i mean give me ONE reason to sign on the dotted line.
go.”
Not *me*, dude — I’m the woman who was given a hard time in a previous thread for stating openly that I don’t want to marry/have children. Just because I don’t have any interest in doing it myself doesn’t mean I’m going to impose my preference on everyone & posit that that marriage is a 100% failure for everyone.
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Sorry paperdreamer but all of those reasons are reasons not to get married if you are a man and you earn more than your prospective wife (and women don’t tolerate men who earn less than they do as husbands).
1) Joint insurance – someone added to your policy (cost-free if someone else employs you, costly if you are self-employed)
2) A living will does the same job; a spouse is potentially conflicted due to (3)
3) Not a big deal for a guy; not too many women out there with a fortune that the guy is in line to inherit
4) Great if you’re the non-working spouse that gets the “free” benefits; almost 0 guys will be
5) You actually pay more in taxes if both make about the same amount of money than if you filed separately. Look up “marriage penalty” on wikipedia. If one spouse makes significantly less, you may pay less in total taxes than if the two of you filed separately but since the guy is almost always going to be the one making more money, what’s the point? To help her save on her taxes?
6) Good luck with the other stuff; same one pussy for the rest of your life? That’s a benefit? Plus, women get less attractive as they get older so you get to have one pussy for the rest of your life that is less and less appealing to you.
Still waiting to hear a good reason for a guy to get married.
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Don’t forget that men late on child support payments go to jail — which now takes the form of debtor’s prison (look it up).
Also, it’s now a regular thing for wives who are divorcing their husbands to make accusations of domestic abuse and child abuse to get houses, kids, etc. Divorce lawyers regularly encourage this stuff.
Think about this: 70 percent of all divorces are initiated by women. Yet women are the ones who push for marriage. That means marriage, to women, is the redistribition of wealth, because they are the ones that get alimony and child support (that latter of which goes to funding mommie’s new boyfriend’s Harley Davidson).
Also, if a guy finds out thru DNA that a kid isn’t his, he still has to pay child support in most states. That means any woman can finger any man as a “father” and essentially take his money. Also remember that in the USA, women rarely do time for crimes (they fo 40 percent the time men do for the same crimes). So if a woman lies, you get in trouble, not her. This is what Christian chivalry has brought us.
For further details, look up Tom Leykis’ Web page and Glenn Sacks’ blog page.
We’re still waiting for a good reason for men to get married…
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91 Steve
Well that must suck. I would assume those were benefits if you cared enough about the other person to want those benefits for them. But
1. you don’t really care about that for the same reason you don’t like the idea of marriage.
2. You can’t believe in marriage if you don’t even believe in the reason anyone really would want to marry
3. you already plan on flaking out when the woman gets too old for you.
Marriage isn’t for everybody but it’s better to look at it in your own life than to condemn it without examination. Unless you’re divorced and sad. Then you have your reasons for avoiding all people for a while.
It’s just that when you’re 90, you don’t have game or sex appeal. You don’t need marriage to be happy, but it’s nice for a lot of people.
Does it ever strike you that it’s not all about the fact that it’s the mistake of getting married, but also about getting married for the wrong reasons and to the wrong person?
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but also about getting married for the wrong reasons and to the wrong person?
do you think any woman would ever want to get buried, ahem, married if she faced the same degree of risk in the case that her partner turned out to be ‘the wrong person’ ?
it’s very easy for someone on the no-risk side of the issue to make such claims. if a woman finds herself with ‘the wrong person’, then, as has been reiterated here many times, she can still walk, with considerable financial perquisites.
gedanken experiment, which i’ll make multiple choice because it’s friday afternoon:
you own a business that operates fine as it is, and have a choice whether to hire a prospective employee, who is really putting the best foot forward for the interview process.
* if the employee turns out to be wonderful, congenial, and productive, then, great!
but
* if you fire the employee for being counterproductive, wasteful, dispiriting, or downright abusive – or even if the employee chooses to quit – you will be required to continue paying the employee’s salary and benefits, with no reciprocation. and if your profits rise, you’ll have to pay a concomitant increase in those salary & benefits – and if the employee has worked for you more than a few years, you’ll have to pay them forever.
oh yeah, and i forgot to mention
* any allegations made against you by the employee will be treated with the utmost gravity, while your complaints will be dismissed as baseless even if they are substantiated by plain evidence.
would you:
1) hire the employee
2) not hire the employee, except perhaps as a temp or independent contractor?
think.
and yes, it really has gotten this bad.
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“Also, it’s now a regular thing for wives who are divorcing their husbands to make accusations of domestic abuse and child abuse to get houses, kids, etc. Divorce lawyers regularly encourage this stuff.
Think about this: 70 percent of all divorces are initiated by women. Yet women are the ones who push for marriage. That means marriage, to women, is the redistribition of wealth, because they are the ones that get alimony and child support (that latter of which goes to funding mommie’s new boyfriend’s Harley Davidson).
Also, if a guy finds out thru DNA that a kid isn’t his, he still has to pay child support in most states. That means any woman can finger any man as a “father” and essentially take his money. Also remember that in the USA, women rarely do time for crimes (they fo 40 percent the time men do for the same crimes). So if a woman lies, you get in trouble, not her. This is what Christian chivalry has brought us.”
Well, here’s a novel idea: don’t marry a soulless, morally-bankrupt, good-for-nothing liar! That would pretty much solve your problem, if being taken for a financial/legal ride is your primary issue.
I’ll have a go, since y’all seem to want someone to take up the gauntlet: the point of marriage is to have a life-partner. Someone who’ll have your back; someone with whom to weather life’s ups & downs; with whom to share a host of experiences (and by that I mean things *in addition* to sex.) Someone to grow old with, because that *is* going to happen to us all, and game has an expiration date as surely as my eggs do; someone, one would hope, you’ll appreciate for a multitude of good qualities, despite her aging pussy (and who’ll appreciate you despite your eventual erectile disfunction.) If you don’t want a life-long teammate, then by all means, don’t get married. And if you at any point decide that you *do* want one, then fucking well choose wisely.
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Well, here’s a novel idea: don’t marry a soulless, morally-bankrupt, good-for-nothing liar! That would pretty much solve your problem, if being taken for a financial/legal ride is your primary issue.
again, easy to say from the risk-free side of the fence.
people change.
power corrupts.
and women hold all the power in western marriage.
the point of marriage is to have a life-partner.
the directions said:
“do not tout the benefits of LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIPS or children as proxies, because those can be had without marriage.”
you aren’t following the directions.
sometimes i don’t know why i bother, but then i remember the hordes of starry-eyed young men, full of vim, vigor, and ignorance of family law, who read this blog.
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“Well, here’s a novel idea: don’t marry a soulless, morally-bankrupt, good-for-nothing liar!”
Why is it that after I presented a heap of evidence about how women are destroying marriage in Western culture, you turn around and find a way to blame men?
This, in itself, explains why men should not get married. It’s always the guy’s fault in Western culture. Feminism totally destroyed Western culture in ways most people cannot fathom.
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^^ #98 doba
yeah.
i’d love to see the response to some reciprocal barb, such as:
“well, here’s a novel idea: don’t marry someone who’ll hit you! now get your ugly black eyes and bruises out of my face before i hit you too, you disgrace to marriage and femininity!”
shit.
—
public service announcement to young guys out there:
if you are still left wanting for proof that women’s empathy extends only to other women, read anon57’s responses again and again until You Have Been Informed.
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The problem is that most people, including most men, simply cannot effectively read other people’s personality/character. By the time someone is in their twenties, most personality traits have probably stabilized and should be pretty obvious to an insightful person – except that most people are simply blind to all the signs. Women are probably more inquisitive and capable in this regard but, overall, they suck, too. This is why I don’t really get Roissy’s insistence on misleading secretiveness – say you’re dating a chick who’s into adopting Ethiopian orphans, while you might have voted for Tancredo – if she finally finds out, it might grate on her… or it might grate on you when you find out… Why waste time on someone who’s trying to create a world you don’t want to live in?
So, given that most people are retarded, marriage is a bad idea. And, if you want to get married, not living together for a while is a terrible idea, too. And if you are not retarded, marriage is unnecessary.
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99 discord:
“This is why I don’t really get Roissy’s insistence on misleading secretiveness – say you’re dating a chick who’s into adopting Ethiopian orphans, while you might have voted for Tancredo – if she finally finds out, it might grate on her… or it might grate on you when you find out… Why waste time on someone who’s trying to create a world you don’t want to live in?”
How about because as a guy you are in a better position if you make the choice that her behavior is unacceptable (or maybe you don’t care that much about that thing she cares about) to you rather than blurting out your beliefs and leaving it up to her to judge you?
On top of that I haven’t ever known a “liberal” woman who dated a conservative guy who didn’t end up spouting his opinions as her own (not vice versa however since being conservative is unfashionable and women will do what is fashionable by default). Keep quiet about your politics and once she likes you she’ll like your politics (as if that matters).
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Paperdreamer:
“Well that must suck. I would assume those were benefits if you cared enough about the other person to want those benefits for them.”
That’s my point exactly; marriage has 0 benefits to a man. It’s a great way to give lots of benefits to a woman you love but there’s really no upside for the guy.
Look, I’d love to get married but I’m really uncomfortable with creating a situation where my potential wife can simply decide to bolt and be so much better off financially for it. Marriage should tie both parties together and not just tie one to the other and leave the other with every incentive to leave. I think I’m great but honestly, after a while even a woman will want a taste of some excitement before her eggs dry up and nothing bores and repulses a woman more than a guy who can’t just turn around and sleep with another woman on a whim.
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“Why is it that after I presented a heap of evidence about how women are destroying marriage in Western culture, you turn around and find a way to blame men?”
Where did I ever blame men as a gender? Ah, that’s right: I didn’t. And if that’s what you’re getting out of my statement, then you’re not reading what I’m writing and you’re clearly intent to be dissatisfied with anything I say, so what is it you want from me? Nobody’s holding a gun to your head and forcing you to get married: if you choose a bad egg, how is that the fault of all women? I’m anti-money-grubbing-whore as much as you are, because those women make life a million times more difficult for genuinely decent & fair-minded women like *me*, who are — as you demonstrate so perfectly — subject to being tarred with the “women are evil” brush because of them.
“This, in itself, explains why men should not get married. It’s always the guy’s fault in Western culture. Feminism totally destroyed Western culture in ways most people cannot fathom.”
No. A bad choice is the individual’s fault. Anyone who blames indiscriminately along gender lines is a moron.
“well, here’s a novel idea: don’t marry someone who’ll hit you! now get your ugly black eyes and bruises out of my face before i hit you too, you disgrace to marriage and femininity!”
I don’t disagree with this; choosing wisely goes in both directions, and any woman who ends up with a dud has to take responsibility for her choice, too.
“if you are still left wanting for proof that women’s empathy extends only to other women, read anon57’s responses again and again until You Have Been Informed.”
This is patently false, but you’re intent upon making it a dust-up and inferring messages that are not being stated. Nothing I have ever posted on here has ever been in support of anything other than *all* individuals taking responsibility for their own choices and behaviors. Assholes of either gender should be exposed as the utter ratbags they are, and the laws which make it possible for women to profit from being assholes are unjust & should be made equitable for men. You can believe whatever horrors about women you want — even as you spend all your time in pursuit of banging them — but don’t try to make me your whipping girl. I am not the problem, and I don’t defend those who are.
There’s no satisfying you guys: I’m not one of Those Horrible Bitches you’re railing against. I don’t want anyone’s money, I’m not out to bust anyone’s balls, I have no interest in being with anyone who’d rather be with someone else. One might think you’d appreciate a female who doesn’t live down to the standards you so love to shout about, yet you excoriate me for not falling over myself to adhere to your feminine ideal of a worshipful brood-mare.
“The problem is that most people, including most men, simply cannot effectively read other people’s personality/character.”
That does seem very likely, although there do seem to be people who manage it well enough to make happy marriages — or at least not-miserable marriages.
My point initially was that the concept of marriage does seem to have some positive qualities to recommend it, at least academically, if one picks a worthy partner and both parties behave like honorable people. If the reality of marriage doesn’t live up to that potential, well, I don’t know what to tell you, other than the responsibility to make it do so is half yours and half your partner’s. Nobody else’s.
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No. A bad choice is the individual’s fault. Anyone who blames indiscriminately along gender lines is a moron.
They aren’t blaming females solely. They are blaming feminism (a “cultural force”; I can’t say I disagree) and the laws (institutions and norms). Because the societal structure is set up as such, women have incentives to marry then divorce and men have disincentives to marry. As women we should be the ones to empower men, to be faithful and unwavering, and to inspire them to be better, but this has not been the case.
I don’t know what to tell you, other than the responsibility to make it do so is half yours and half your partner’s. Nobody else’s.
Not so. Very few people recognize the root causes of their actions. People believe that we have total freedom of choice, when in fact our choices are often irrational, based on a dizzying myriad of biological, psychological, economic, political, cultural and societal pressures.
Bottom line? The laws in this country are actually anti-nice/feminine women who want to have children in a marriage, and pro-manipulative/masculine women who do not want children (career women), or who have children either out of wedlock (welfare women), or who marry men, divorce them, and take their alimony / child support (what is being lambasted here).
if one picks a worthy partner and both parties behave like honorable people.
I’d like to think of myself as a “worthy partner,” but the truth of the matter is that I am in fact spoiled and terrible compared to women of the past. Though I have consciously modified much of my behavior to try to be a better person, many others do not have the willpower or self-awareness to put in the hard work and sacrifice necessary to make marriage smooth and lasting.
With the modern zeitgeist being one of quick pleasure and carnal hedonism, who wants to work after work? Who wants to compromise? If it were so easy, there would be a lot less obesity and adultery and consumer debt. Yes, a lot of it is the fault of the people in question, but the “powers that be” do not seem interested in changing the culture traditions and basic social influences (laws on the ground level, mass media on a meta level) for the masses. They are busily engaged in avarice and pursuit of power, and we only serve as feeding cogs in a massive system.
The institution of marriage itself is terrible, though the ideal still obviously exists. It is not too unlike America itself, which has fallen quite a ways from its Constitutional foundations that have built a vast and powerful nation. The flag and the wedding ring are both symbols that represent aspirations, aspirations from which humans fall short. Reality is much different than ideals. Pragmatic men have realized this, and I cannot admonish them for it.
Face it. Honor is obsolete. You and I may not be specifically whom these men rail against, but there is no use in ignoring that the prevailing winds have changed, and they have changed for the worse.
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J5, and the rest of the power point wannabes,
Why are you making argument after argument about why not to get married? If you don’t want to get married, then DON’T GET MARRIED. WTF. You know that thing called “choice”?
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My 2nd paragraph should not have been italicized. I forgot to close a tag properly.
Anyway, I am married and try my best to be a giving and empathic person to the man I love. I don’t care what other men do or do not choose in terms of marriage. More than 80% of America is religious, and I choose not to be. What I do care is when the decisions that others make begin to affect my own life. The men here have a point about the poor marriage laws. I happen to fall under the working and making about the same amount as my husband, so if we filed joint tax returns our taxes would be higher.
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johnny five
“[would] woman would ever want to get buried, ahem, married if she faced the same degree of risk in the case that her partner turned out to be ‘the wrong person’ ?”
engaged people ( girls and guys) all face the possibility that who they choose might be the wrong person. but usually when you get married, you’re willing to risk it as you should be sure that person is who you think they are. It’s not just the money you lose if it falls apart.
“people change.
power corrupts.
and women hold all the power in western marriage.”
Sometimes people do change, but everyone is different. Walk into relationships with eyes wide open; you say women choose super alpha types who use and abuse, but this sounds like a guy falling for a manipulative, deceitful female.
Roissy does two things: he guides men how to be successful with women and tells women to find happiness quickly. Playing the game is fine, but what’s the point if you don’t trust us enough to want us ?
What would you think if you had to be freely available at 20 and then be discarded/ gracefully disappear 10 years later? And it’s not like you’re encouraged to have any intelligence because “higher education isn’t needed to attract a man”? You can’t have both the stance of victim upon divorce and dominant role while “browsing.”
Nothing is ever risk free. Being a wealthy gentleman, you should know that.
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Very few people recognize the root causes of their actions.”
That doesn’t excuse them from taking responsibility for them.
“They aren’t blaming females solely. They are blaming feminism (a “cultural force”; I can’t say I disagree) and the laws (institutions and norms)…Bottom line? The laws in this country are actually anti-nice/feminine women who want to have children in a marriage, and pro-manipulative/masculine women who do not want children (career women), or who have children either out of wedlock (welfare women), or who marry men, divorce them, and take their alimony / child support (what is being lambasted here).”
Then those laws and incentives should be changed, and I say that as a feminist. Which is not synonymous with “castrating harridan”, as much as some posters might wish it.
“Though I have consciously modified much of my behavior to try to be a better person,many others do not have the willpower or self-awareness to put in the hard work and sacrifice necessary to make marriage smooth and lasting.”
Hence my suggestion to choose wisely, if you’re going to bother doing it at all. Don’t select a superficial partner who lacks character or won’t make the effort and then blame the institution when it all falls apart.
“With the modern zeitgeist being one of quick pleasure and carnal hedonism, who wants to work after work? Who wants to compromise? If it were so easy, there would be a lot less obesity and adultery and consumer debt.”
Nobody ever said personal accountability was *easy*. Only that it’s necessary, and sadly, the current state of American society proves that.
“Face it. Honor is obsolete.”
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. Honor is certainly not the popular or easy choice — not that it ever was — but obsolete? On the contrary, it’s more relevant than ever, and things won’t improve until that mode of thinking cycles back into fashion.
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101 Steve
Well that is okay 🙂 I’m sure you know best what is good for you; maybe that will change or maybe it won’t.
I just wanted to say not all women are bad; there are many nice people with nice appearances, like there are ugly people (inside/ out). Being youthful isn’t just non wrinkly skin and non fat thighs. It’s about believing in something that’s good even when you know sometimes it goes bad.
I’m a practical person too though. I guess that’s why, even though I support happiness and all that big lovey dovey stuff, I know I have to lead my own life. Roissy says a diploma doesn’t matter to you guys but I think it will actually help. Someone who’s strong and self sufficient who wants to marry you is probably not trying to mooch off you. They’ve go their own. You’re saying these women won’t date you? There are good and bad people; don’t condemn us all.
When a girl can earn her own, a lot of them see money and how it nice to help get the material things. But then I see the bigger picture and I start realizing money is cheap. What you want (a wife who won’t cruelly divorce you, everlasting youth, and someone who loves you more than you love her) can’t be bought. Not really.
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then you wouldn’t have scenarios of wives leaving their loyal beta husbands for no good reason while collecting half his wealth by state-sanctioned robbery.
Instead, I suspect that a backlash effect may develop where women just simply opt-out of marriage fearing the possibility of a difficult divorce. The consequences of total abandonment of marriage is something I’ll leave to the reader.
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You have abandonment of marriage by men right now.
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#102 anon 57
Assholes of either gender should be exposed as the utter ratbags they are, and the laws which make it possible for women to profit from being assholes are unjust & should be made equitable for men.
if you believe this, then you are a rare bird indeed, and you’ve been raised right by somebody.
you are correct that you never made a unilateral statement that men should be blamed for their choice of women (and women shouldn’t be blamed for their choice of men), but if you can’t see why a reasonable man (especially in this crowd) would make that inference, then you probably don’t have a lot of girlfriends.
One might think you’d appreciate a female who doesn’t live down to the standards you so love to shout about, yet you excoriate me for not falling over myself to adhere to your feminine ideal of a worshipful brood-mare.
let me repeat:
coming from the vast majority of women, your statements would carry the implications that we inferred.
most women have no empathy whatsoever for men’s needs and desires, let alone their financial and emotional security. if you are one of the exceptions, you need to indicate that that is the case; the null hypothesis is that you are average.
—
104: wtf is a ‘ppt wannabe’?
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johnny five
I wonder why more men who were f’d by a divorce court don’t do what one guy in his mid-30s I know did: quit his well-paying job, move to another state, rent a cheap room in a big college town, get a job as a dishwasher, and date young women.
the problem here is that they would order a ‘vocational examination’, from which they would figure out his so-called earning potential. then they would probably impute his former income to him, meaning that he’d be stuck paying more than 100% of his income in child support.
No sane wealthy man should get married in CA.
ironically, it’s not the wealthy men who have the most to worry about; it’s the middle-class men, who really don’t have the financial wherewithal to handle losing half, or more, of everything.
if a wealthy man used to be worth $2X million and is now worth “only” X million because of his divorce, then yes, that sucks, but in the big picture it’s not such a big deal. as an admittedly extreme example, i don’t feel bad for sir paul mccartney at all,* because even losing 80-90% of his net worth wouldn’t make a dent in his lifestyle – and any man with common sense could have predicted the outcome of a marriage between a beatle and a former porn star.**
Johnny only prob with this is if you own a busniness and are rich when they cut that business in half it is no longer viable. You get the unviable business she gets the cash so much worse for rich people they lose everything potentially.
The vocational examination thing is super creepy too. They tell you how much you will make and what job you will work. People change jobs all the time normally. I think they used to call that slavery back in the day. Now state sanctioned again and no actors picking up the cause for the poor guys getting reamed.
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106, paperdreamer:
What would you think if you had to be freely available at 20 and then be discarded/ gracefully disappear 10 years later?
as a close analogy, there are many traditional male career paths, most notably those described as ‘white-shoe’, on which it is essential to embark in one’s twenties. in those career paths, we face essentially the same dilemma faced by women vis-a-vis marriage: we choose either to sell our souls to the corporate monster, forgoing many of the more enjoyable aspects of twentysomethingness in the process, or we turn our backs on the opportunity forever. so we men may have more sympathetic ears here than you might think.
the whole disappearance thing is overblown, too, because modern america (except for some heartland backwaters) is positively horrified at the prospect of a young woman embracing a traditional lifestyle; you’re expected to hold off on marriage until later. you’re only 20ish, right? if you don’t believe the extent to which this sea change has occurred, just try telling a random female stranger under 50 that your ambition is to marry young, raise a large family, and then think about having a career when your kids are grown, and wait for the conniptions.
the real issue for today’s 30-something women is not so much that they need to ‘disappear’ as that they overestimate their dating/mating market value. for every gannon, roissy, or johnny five who intends eventually to take in hand a young fertility goddess, there are several upwardly mobile american males of marriageable age who actually want a 30ish woman with career credentials. the only hitch is that those males tend not to be terribly ‘exciting’ or ‘sexy’, but them’s the breaks.
—
And it’s not like you’re encouraged to have any intelligence because “higher education isn’t needed to attract a man”?
honey sweetheart, if you think valuing higher education has anything to do with valuing intelligence, you’ve got some growin’ to do.
—
You can’t have both the stance of victim upon divorce and dominant role while “browsing.”
sure you can.
if you’re browsing a pet store, your position is obviously superior to that of the animals, but that doesn’t preclude your eventual victimhood at the hands (fangs, actually) of that poisonous snake you decide to buy.
—
Nothing is ever risk free. Being a wealthy gentleman, you should know that.
no doubt a gentleman, but whence the notion of this fabulous wealth? do i type with an unmistakably aristocratic flourish?
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#34, paperdreamer (a day late and a dollar short):
What I meant was that you shouldn’t be so calculating about what you do.
my experience is that the vast majority of actions of the vast majority of women are calculated.
maybe you’re too young to realize this, but this statement comes off as if you’re saying: ‘you shouldn’t be manipulative, johnny; that’s the woman’s job.’
just fyi.
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there are several upwardly mobile american males of marriageable age who actually want a 30ish woman with career credentials
That may be true. But You are talking about man in the 40-55 years of age range, many probably divorced or maybe even only looking for a mistress. All man, regardless of their age, dream of sleeping with a nice, perky 19 year old woman. Any young, goodlooking male in his thirties and probably even early forties will try do do anything to get a young woman in her twenties. For a man a 40 year old woman is simply not the real thing, and he only likes it because she bonded with him when she was younger or through analogy. I understand that women don’t want to marry at 15. However, at 22-26 years of age they will get a man who is 5 times better than ten years later.
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“most women have no empathy whatsoever for men’s needs and desires, let alone their financial and emotional security. if you are one of the exceptions, you need to indicate that that is the case; the null hypothesis is that you are average.”
I think the very fact that I (or similarly non-shrewish women like others who comment here) exist proves that that lack of empathy is neither inevitable nor permanent.
It’s been said in the comments here before that valuing only the superficial in your women is part of what brings about wholly superficial women. There’s probably something to that. Embody the change you want to see, since the only behavior you can control is your own, and don’t reward those who don’t live up to those standards.
But this is in direct opposition to abject hedonism, so I guess it comes down to: how badly do you want it? I’m walking what I talk, and if that means I have to forego some short-term self-indulgence, I’m perfectly OK with that. YMMV.
“if you believe this, then you are a rare bird indeed, and you’ve been raised right by somebody.”
I was, by both parents, who raised me to be a person first, and a woman second. “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander,” and other similarly earthy adages, from a tough-as-nails Welshman and an independent Irishwoman. What I don’t get is when that became so fucking remarkable. Does no one live by the Golden Rule anymore? We can update it to read, “Don’t be an asshole.” Is that so fucking complicated?
I suggest reading — and internalizing — Marcus Aurelius.
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Embody the change you want to see, since the only behavior you can control is your own
True. What you put in is what you get out.
Does no one live by the Golden Rule anymore?
Unfortunately, very few do.
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80 PA
Call me self-interested, but it sure seems to me that where children are concerned, the divorce laws are simply protecting them OVER either parent. If the mother has the lion’s share of their care, it only makes sense that she keeps the home where they were raised, so the kids are not uprooted physically, hopefully giving them a wee bit more security in a very upsetting to them situation.
My ex was whining because I got the house and he got the investments. (It was an even split at the time, but the house value went up and the mutual funds eventually went down.) So I said to him, “O.K. then YOU take the house, I’LL take the money!” Now what do you think a real man does in that situation? Takes the house and uproots his kid? NO. A real man sees that the marriage breaking down was 50% his doing, and does not want to make his kid suffer even more by being a big pussy and taking the house.
Yes, it was painful for him, me and my daughter. He was a workaholic who had developed NO relationship with his daughter. Even he knew that forcing a 50/50 joint custody situation would only make her and him miserable. So I got custody and he had visiting rights. Sane people make the right decisions, painful as they are. I can’t even believe I have to point this out.
Quit your whining and keep it in your pants if you don’t like the laws or change them.
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golden rule kind of went out with the laws that say woman can do whatever they want to men and men just have to take it.
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He was a workaholic to help his family dumb bitch. Maybe he thought you would help and save some of the money instead of spending it all. You should get jack. He should get the kid and have his girlfriend raise it to easy. Lets make it fair.
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Sara you have pointed out more than once that your husband was a workaholic but that is all. Wtf is wrong with you. Only so pissed because ok I am a workaholic now so my family will be ok. Sacrificing my body so the future is bright. What the fuck did your husband get for that. Just some woman wining about how bad he was because he was a workaholic.
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121 Gunslinger
Your anger is not unwarranted, but I know the difference between pathological workaholism and a healthy man working his ass off to provide a great life for his family. If you listen to “In Sync with the Opposite Sex” by Allison Armstrong, she speaks heavily in favor of men who put their careers first for anywhere from five to twenty years FOR their (mostly ungrateful, I’m afraid) wives and children.
This is something women need to be aware of; the stages of life men go through. A smart woman will use what little time she has with her man in highly positive, supportive ways; thereby making it easier for him and the family, AND so they can all enjoy the fruits of his labor. Women are woefully ignorant and demanding. I agree. Even men themselves don’t realize what they are going through and why their wives are pissed off all the time when they work so much!!!
It’s sad that the addictive personality can often just switch addictions. When one is handled, they just substitute another. In my case, even his BOSS was trying to make him go home! His mother wondered how in the hell I put up with it for so many years. He crossed the line from healthy to unhealthy. He knows it and holds no anger towards me. Think father issues; trying to please an abusive father that would never be pleased….by over-achieving. It had much more to do with that, than his immediate family. BTW I still love him and he loves me, though he’s remarried and doing well.
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Addendum to 122:
Gunslinger,
The Allison Armstrong reference was in error. Though ‘In Sync’ is GREAT information (and very humorous) on behavioral sex differences, her book “Keys to the Kingdom” goes into men’s stages of life.
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All man, regardless of their age, dream of sleeping with a nice, perky 19 year old woman.
For the guys who have been surrounded for awhile by women in their late 20s and up, here’s what an 18 year-old looks like:
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Here’s a better example of a teen hottie. She’s one of Virgile Kent’s favorites:
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Here’s a better example of a teen hottie.
No make up, no nails, questionable ass, and her rack isn’t really that big. She certainly isn;t ugly, and she meets the minimum requirements for being beautiful, but she certainly is not hot.
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Well…
I say it’s unacceptable for such mediocrity to grace the pages of this blog…
That butt griding chick… Agnostic, for god’s sake, it’s great to look young, feel young, act young, and be attracted to the same in others, but you have some serious deficiency in the aesthetics/classiness region of your brain, and you have to work on that, so your above-average intelligence doesn’t go to waste. I’m not sure why there’s this glaring gap between what you want to act and look like, and the sorts of chicks you find attractive. Last time I checked, non-ghetto-trashy females also had buttocks.
The second chick… could she be any more a stereotypically middle-class-cheerleader-brat-type-trying-to-act-out among my equally fucking boring peers? Shame on you, DOBA.
I’m an aesthete – I love beautiful people, naked or dressed in fine garments, carrying themselves with grace…Too rare, unfortunately! Terrible taste among some supposed alphas, and a tragedy for the next generation!
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I couldn’t open Agnostic’s or DOBA’s Youtube videos, as I don’t have the account registration to assure them that I’m over 18.
Nevertheless, Agnostic did recently embed a couple of “teen hottie” videos on his blog.
It was fucking disgusting. By that, I mean that is was a vulgar turn-off. One girl looked like she was trying to shake loose a stuck turd out from between her buttcheecks.
I was a teenager during the ’80s and I do remember dancing and fooling around with exhuberant horny teenage girls. But I don’t remember any of them doing those skank ho gyrations.
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The girls shown by Agnostic and DOBA are attractive 8s, maybe even 9s. They are very sexy and pretty goodlooking. I think it is a Betatrait to obsess about nonavailable modellike looking 10’s intead of making love to the available 7s, 6s, and even 5s. My golden rule is the following: there are no ugly 16 year old females.
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They are very sexy and pretty goodlooking.
In the case of DOBA’s selection from YouTube, the former certainly does not apply, but the latter does. IMHO, her only saving grace is her decent sized breasts, otherwise, she would fall under the sexless friend category for me.
As I said, no nails, no heels, no makeup, no attraction.
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My golden rule is the following: there are no ugly 16 year old females.
Seriously, it’s not that hard to find ugly 16 year old girls…
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@DA
take two groups of women. One group consists of 16 year olds, the other of 30 year old women.
On average, 80% of the first group will be highly fuckeable.
On the second group. only 35% will be highly fuckeable.
At 35, only 10% of women will be highly fuckeable.
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Discord — those silk stockings and fitted velvet knee-britches and matching jacket are cutting off the circulation to your brain.
If you want to pay me, I will search YouTube all day until I find someone who is a 10, has grace and class, and yet also projects a strong sexuality in her video. If you do not want to pay me, I will just link to a video I found while searching for that “Hypnotized” song.
It’s well known that being an aesthete is merely a defense mechanism for those who are unappealing to chicks: sour grapes. But at least not enjoying the closeness (as opposed to the sight) of beautiful girls does leave you more free time to flounce about the streets with a lily in your hand.
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Discord — those silk stockings and fitted velvet knee-britches and matching jacket are cutting off the circulation to your brain.
No, no… stockings can be employed to increase venous return from the legs!
If you want to pay me, I will search YouTube all day until I find someone who is a 10, has grace and class, and yet also projects a strong sexuality in her video. If you do not want to pay me, I will just link to a video I found while searching for that “Hypnotized” song.
Why would *I* pay *you*? I’m not the one who needs to be tutored.
Don’t be a dumbass. You proclaim that what you posted is the definition of an 18-year old, as opposed to all other, non-gyrating, humorless nuns who are resorbing their ass and will die soon. Had you directed our attention toward an actual beautiful young girl, no one could complain too much.
It’s well known that being an aesthete is merely a defense mechanism for those who are unappealing to chicks: sour grapes. But at least not enjoying the closeness (as opposed to the sight) of beautiful girls does leave you more free time to flounce about the streets with a lily in your hand.
Well, I take it that you’re going to have plenty of free time to jerk off until your girlfriend comes of age – should we send over an extra large bottle of KY?
Don’t chafe, Agnostic.
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There are some very funny comments about how spoiled US women are in the comments section of today’s Washington Post article about how older women are dropping mucho $$$ to be pampered during pregnancy.
I’m posting a link because it’s interesting that the worldview many of us express here is apparently going mainstream. This is not the kind of commentary I expected on such an article. Take special note of the gay guys’ comments:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/24/AR2008052400856_Comments.html
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about how older women are dropping mucho $$$ to be pampered during pregnancy.
perfect analogy to roissy’s comment about a good cuttin’ vis-a-vis a five-figure ring.
i remember hanging out with a buddy (a good ol’boy for whom anything with sleeves constituted ‘dressed up’) and his woman (a really hot pouty princess type, but whom he had apparently tamed quite well) during her first pregnancy when she started freaking out about how she ‘felt like a whale’.
his response: a pretty cheesy comment about how she was the hottest whale he’d ever seen, then a quick ass grab and a couple of gentle slaps on her bulging tummy, whereupon he told her that the bigger she got, the more time she should plan to spend on her back and on her knees. that pretty much took care of her angst, with no necessity for mommy facials, etc.
i’m not sure whether it was calculated (it probably wasn’t; the guy is a complete natural), but he could always placate her with well-timed sexual innuendoes, on which i have no doubt he followed up in spades once they were in private.
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^ J5
Great story. For women it’s ALL about how they feel, and especially how they feel about themselves. (In fact it’s that way for all of us.) If the man helped her feel good or even great about herself, he deserves what he gets. Whether she’s on or off her back, cheesy or not; he is a prince.
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Just curious if anyone has any experience here with pre-nups? Hows does that come into play during a divorce? IE: Rich husband has 10 mil upon marriage, spends 2 on house, 1/2 mil on possessions, and couple divorces. Does he get to keep what he paid for? Or just what he still has that’s untouched? What about alimony payments?
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I’m not an expert on American laws. However, it varies from state to state and in some states the law even override prenups. Also, remember that the feminists are winning the legal batlles in the US and that laws can chane. In theory, new laws shouldn’t affect old contracts, in practice family law overrides everything. So in another 5 years a law could simply say that a prenup is void in every point it contradicts family law.
In the end, a lot of times a prenup can be useful, and yes, get one. But be very sure that family law doesn’t override it, and remember that laws change (not that long ago you could have consentual sex with 14 year old females in the US, Age of consent was 10 in Comon law until the late nineteenth century,
it was raised from 12-13-14 to 16-18 just a few decades ago.
Best advice:
Don’t marry in the US
If you do, invest a big amount of assets outside of the US.
Ex: Switzerland, Kaiman islands…
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128 PA
Must agree on the skank go gyrations. A lot of young women have no clue what they’re really doing or saying about themselves as they blindly follow what they think is hot according to MTV.
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139 Gannon:
“Cayman” not “Kaiman.” Idiot.
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Actually, in German its spelled Kaiman.
Remember, I’m not a native speaker.
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Prenups can only cover division of assets and maintenance payments, the latter to a degree. Child support is a federal issue (thanks, Slick Willie Clinton), and terms for child support cannot be dictated by a prenup.
But a prenup is an odd thing. A contract adjudicated in family court where contract law does not apply, and one where the other party can claim relief from if she was having her period during signing, etc. Don’t rely too much on it.
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Why grape seed oil? Try virgin coconut oil, it smells yummy (sorry) is good for you and you can cook with it.
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As someone having a friend paying half the mortgage (for the sake of the kids, of course) on a house where his ex-wife is now fucking her new husvband, all because the judge saw no reason to revisit the divorce judgement, I truly believe that family law is broken beyond repair.
Marriage is indeed a sucker’s bet for men.
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good thing u know how to fuck a girl right…
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[…] my back pocket. (I liked the bet angle. This girl had game.) Of course I didn’t give her a straight answer. I told her it was my […]
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@102 anonymous 57
You are a breath of fresh Air.
(at this point I am violating their sacred PUA cannon)
D’accord, I should Neg you at this point.
But I am a free spirited, who follows the dictates of his own conscience, and march to the beat of my own drum machine.
“Cogito et Amor Ergo Sum”
“Carpe et Dominae Diem et Nocturne”
Some thoughts as I read your words,
I love the way you think.
I like your parents.
Its refreshing to see common sense tempering feminism.
You have both heart and soul, and really don’t need me to tell you any of this.
But I just gotta say it.
You’re a Class Act.
I could Love you even if you were a 5.
but then I cognate the difference between love and Lust.
Lust calls for a 10, love is blind, deaf, and dumb.
I hope to see you posting more
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Anonymous 60 —
You’re right about Anonymous Too’s need to emotionally recover. You’re probably wrong about the extend of his bitterness towards all women, but there is some there for sure.
What he’s right about though, absolutely right about, is how incredibly unfair to men divorce courts are, most of the time. This only applies to men with some money. If they don’t have much there isn’t much take and the child support payments (presuming he has a steady job and can be found) while painful to him aren’t going to be so munificent for her. He will lose his kids though, often pretty completely. It’s just amazaingly unfair that fathers who want to spend lots of time with their children face a huge and very expensive battle to enforce any visitation rights, and can’t stop paying her support until she complies. His wages will simply be garnished and or he’ll be thrown in jail until he complies. How about throwing her in jail for non compliance? Never happens.
The very worst divorce theft/rape cases do involve women getting really nasty and not all women (but way, way more than you’d think when they want to divorce) are that bad. The trouble is the system vastly empowers them to be in they want to.
And more, the average not especially agrressive case of divorce for professional men on up is truly divorce theft and awful.
Women simply shouldn’t begin to get the awards and child support=alimony they do unless perhaps they were the ones abandoned by their husbands, which is rarely the case. And NO, contrary to the American feminist absolutism, occasional male cheating that doesn’t amount to abandonment of his care and loving for his wife shouldn’t justify her divorce and divorce theft either. Now if he falls head over heals in love with another woman, spends all this time with her, ignores his wife emotionally and sexually, well then that’s another thing. That’s rarely what happens, unless the wife pushes him there, really hard, first and for a long time.
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to dougjnn,
Often when a couple marries and have children, one spouse or the other will forfeit what it takes to keep him/her viable in the marketplace, i.e. continuing education, job networking, retirement benefits, and mostly, employment confidence. Momentum is lost. In the event of a divorce, how can s/he be be compensated for this sacrifice?
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anonymous 150
She shouldn’t be compensated. At all.
It was her free choice. It wasn’t a one moment or few months in the making decision either. It went on every day she dropped out of the workplace.
Women generally earn a lot less than their husbands both because they want to marry up (economically and status wise) just as men want to marry down somewhat (economically and status wise. It boils down to sexual attraction, to the guts of it in fact (which is why a girl’s inheriting lots of money really isn’t the same sort of issue or doesn’t have to be, depending mostly on her attitude but somewhat on his — she isn’t besting him but instead got it from daddy). So too after marriage a whole hell of a lot of the time women put less effort into their careers, and migrate towards easier, more part time ones. That’s what women want.
It’s ok for a man to pay his wife for this while she’s still his wife, but he’s supposed to “compenate” her for this? I think not.
It SHOULD be a disincentive to her to seek divorce as well. Would help keep more marriages together.
I’m pro long term committment but against marriage, as it exists in America. Now in France, another story.
Oh and I don’t think male adultery is such a bid deal either, or anyway that it automatically is, if it’s done discretely and the husband still loves are cares for and spends time with and to the extent she’s still into it, still gives good sex to his wife. I’m not talking about a full blown love affair, but something that’s much closer to just sex.
Wife playing is ok with me too so long as its done with rules designed to firebreak any budding full blown love affair. Otherwise female playing and nearly all successful female adultery is nuclear for any marriage. I’m fine with the same rules for husbands but in fact they usually don’t need them — men don’t usually (voluntarily) leave good women just because they find younger one’s hotter. They really don’t, usually, especially when their wife allows them to play.
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“All thinking men are atheists.” Earnest Hemingway
Best lifestyle for alpha/ naturals = Hedonism / being an eternal bachelor.
You see the earlier you realize that religion is BS and that there is only blackness after death, life become a lot clearer. Most people who believe in religion are dumb… lol
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[…] which was a nice change of pace from the parade of skanks I was meeting everywhere else. I did run game on her when we started dating, although I didn’t have to lay it on thick because she’s not a […]
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