Any of my male readers who have seen this movie, voluntarily or not, are welcome to leave their observations in the comments. Feel free to use an anon handle if the shame is too great.
I’m curious to know your impressions. Was the movie hysterically anti-male? How many straight men were in the audience? During which scenes did the women in the audience shriek the loudest? What did your girlfriends/wives/female acquaintances like best about the movie? Will Sarah Jessica Parker win the Triple Crown?
I have a theory that SATC’s biggest psychological clit rub for adult female fans is the fantasy it portrays of women remaining sexually attractive to alpha males well into their 40s. A woman’s biggest fear is aging into sexual invisibility. SATC with its alternate universe of debauched unreality assuages that fear. It’s a feature length “You’ve still got it!” affirmation, allowing women the luxury of imagining the day of reckoning can be put off indefinitely. Unfortunately, in real life, Mr. Big glances right past Carrie Bradshaw at the hot fresh 21 year old waitress bringing his coffee.
I predict the 17-21yo female audience for this movie will be as small as the straight male audience.
Warren Littlefield (the old NBC head) once said that the key to a great TV show was when characters came together to connect in a bad situation. (His examples, The Golden Girls: old, lonely women finding friendship and support in each other after their husbands have died; Will & Grace: a gay man and single woman finding friendship in each other after they’ve been losers at romance. Etc…)
I think SATC was trying to be something in the same vein — these lonely women find friendship and support in each other as they look to find love. But this show got ridiculously out of touch with the heart of that concept and just devolved into self-indulgent fantasy. It wasn’t about them finding love — it was about them trying to prove that it’s possible to “have it all”, to be in your mid-thirties, be single, have a successful career, have sex with an endless stream of young men, afford all the most fabulous shoes and fashion, live in rent-controlled apartments, have the best gay friends and supportive girl friends and no nagging family to tell you that you’re in danger of becoming an old maid… They’re not at all realistic or relatable unless you buy into that fantasy world. It’s just pathetic.
Related note to the girls out there: Quoting Carrie Bradshaw out loud or on your facebook profile is an instant disqualifier.
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Problem is that a lot of people, specially women, think that television is a mirror of reality, and not an evasion of it.
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I have a theory that SATC’s biggest psychological clit rub for adult female fans is the fantasy it portrays of women remaining sexually attractive to alpha males well into their 40s.
Another fantasy promulgated by the show is that Sarah Jessica Parker would be chased after by any guy who has options. I hate to ridicule anybody for their looks, but the notion of this woman inspiring any man – let alone a “Mr. Big” – to any significant effort in sexual pursuit requires more suspension of disbelief than anything portrayed in Indiana Jones . Parker, as I understand it, wields major power behind the camera, so this absurd proposal might be a personal project of hers. Of course, Parker’s unfortunate appearance* is a critical factor in endearing the show to loveless women.
(I haven’t seen the movie, nor do I plan to, but I have inflicted on myself portions of TV episodes.)
*Parker’s ugliness is not attributable to her prominent nose. This trait can be very attractive on certain women, especially the Jewesses and Mediterranean types for whom it is archetypal. Parker’s countenance is defined by a general, harsh masculinity.
She wasn’t always this homely, either. In her younger years, what might be called “baby fat” softened her angularity. Unluckily for her, women are berated into believing that they can mitigate the effects of aging by dieting and exercising themselves into skeletal androgyny.
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#3
beautiful.
and just as beautifully written.
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Regarding #3:
This is a good example of a totally hot woman with a big nose: porn star Tiffany Taylor who is part Pakistani. I’m actually one of the regulars here, but don’t wanna get reamed out for posting a link to porn (which may wind up getting caught in the spam filter anyway).
But my point is, check out her nose; ignore the action. NSFW!
http://www.spankwire.com/articles/118560/Tiffany-Taylor-Loves-To-Stroke.html?bpd=1
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BS. I always found SATC a depressing show, and so did many of my friends. The ones who continued to watch it all the same did so because, although they knew it was a fantasy, they enjoyed the fantsy, OR, because they saw the sadness lurking underneath the show’s superficial good humour, and responded to that element.
No woman I know has ever said, “boy, SATC has inspired me to want to be like those women.” But if such a woman exists, I would bet that she is NOT an “older woman”, who will after all know and understand the difficulties of being in that situation, but a young woman, who will watch the show, miss the underlying bleakness, and think, “wow, it looks like this means I have plenty of time! Look at what those girls can still do in their 40s!”
BTW, all feminist writers I’ve encountered in reviews etc. have hated SATC, because it makes women look so materialistic and self-absorbed. Since this is in fact what so many of your readers think of women anyway, I’m surprised to find you so hostile to it.
Roissy, posts like this make me suspect that you know less about women than you think you do. Which is odd, because on the whole I’m willing to admit that you know quite a bit.
Clio
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“Mr. Big glances right past Carrie Bradshaw at the hot fresh 21 year old waitress bringing his coffee.” Who have you been hanging out with? Just because it’s true for the duds doesn’t me you have to hang that on the whole male population. Whatever.
Goes to kiss his wife of 30+ years…
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Any straight man who voluntarily sees that movie should be required to squat to piss for the next six months.
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“No woman I know has ever said, “boy, SATC has inspired me to want to be like those women.” ”
This is insane. Offhand, I know a bunch of women who took the show’s message of promiscuity without excuses to heart. One had a Sex and the City ringtone and used to go on cruises with her family, where she’s screw the non-Emglish speaking shiphands for fun.
But beyond that, it’s been documented in endless places (most notably Laura Session Stepp’s newest book, “Unhooked”) at how the show influenced legions of younger women.
The line of thinking that “people are not influenced by TV” is so wrongheaded it’s laughable. Advertisers pay zillions per year for 30-second spots that influence behavior. You can damn well bet that the shows wedged in between these ads influence people.
And I see a marked difference in the way twentysomething women these days and the ones of my generation behave and even speak. I’d argue the show was more influential to the mores of society than the Beatles and Rolling Stones were in the 1960s.
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Yipes! Sorry for the harsh tone in the above post, Clio. I thought you were someone else with whom I’d argued on here before. I didn’t see your name at the end.
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I mostly agree with comment #3. Seeing films like Sex and the City: The Movie and Forgetting Sarah Marshall makes me reflect on what you and similar bloggers have mentioned. I’m no film professor, but I don’t recall this type of movie being made in the past. Therefore, I’d like to nominate a new movie genre: realistic escapism.
Most movies are about escaping reality. People don’t watch Harry Potter, When Harry Met Sally, etc. to learn shit. They just want to be entertained for an hour or two. No body other than 5 year-olds think that they can become a real-life wizard. However, these new movies seem like they could really happen. After all it’s not like watching a superhero movie, where you know that you’d be killed if you were hit by a large amount of gamma rays.
The message of realistic escapism seems to be:
1) Women, you can be 40+ and still easily net an all-around alpha male.
2) Men, you can be an oafish loser with no social skills and still score with hot chicks, no matter how many times you cry yourself to sleep.
3) You don’t have to change your life or make compromises for love, just keep being your Sad Sack, or Man-Woman self.*
These events seem like they could really happen. And maybe even to you! You lovable loser! Is there such a thing as a lovable loser? I thought most losers were not loved, but rather just pitied. But I digress.
*I was told that several characters from Sex and the City did compromise their lifestyles to find love at the end of the series, as seen in the movie. I don’t know how true this is as I’ve only see a couple of episodes. I did see the film however…
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Roissy
If you think that 17-21 year olds will not be seeing this movie you obviously don’t know that many girls fo that age bracket.
When the TV show was on it was watched by pretty much all my little sisters friends (they were 16-19 in the years the show was airing). I was around 20 when it started and me and my friends watched it all the time too. Why? Because the maturity level of the SATC women is about on par with that of teenagers and girls at college. The teenagers I knew who watched it religiously DID take it seriously and did not seem to register the fact that these women were in their 40s. They were most likely not whoring around like that when they were 15! When my little sisters friends started having fuck buddies I really got worried. The message they took from the show was that allowing men to use them for sex without a relationship made them strong independent women. Never mind they then would cry when said guy started dating someone else and stopped calling.
Trust me – there will be plenty of 17-21 year olds in the audience and plenty of women in their late 20s who were that age when it was first on.
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Well, DOBA, you don’t need to apologise for harshness ; I didn’t see anything really snarky in your post.
But OTOH, you didn’t quite read my post correctly, or else you missed some of it.
I actually did say that the effect of SATC was likely to be greater on Y-O-U-N-G women than on older ones, because the older ones were more likely to know the realities of living single into their late 30s and 40s.
And I also said that those of us who really were older when the series appeared were more likely to find it depressing than affirming. The series had a sort of subtext for older women that young ones did not catch.
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Wellesley Queen and the Canadian Woman both loved the show and they routinely stated that the show was reflective of what *real* women were like. While Wellesley Queen is in her early twenties and Canadian Woman is in her mid-thirties, both had similar sentiments about the show, and on many occasions they shared similar viewpoints about the characters. In contrast, my suburban female friend had no love for the show, and regarded it as rubbish.
I hated the show because it was funny and lacked any compelling reason for me to watch. Sitting with Wellesley Queen or Canadian Woman watching together created some of the most boring and antagonizing parts of our friendship. Plus, they’re four non-hot women with no sex appeal. Besides, the four women conversing about the men in their lives led to me to fear real world women spending a brief moment of their day mocking me and coming up with numerous reasons as to why I’m unworthy of any female.
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Here’s the thing, as many of your readers point out: An attractive woman can get laid by an alpha, beta, or phi kappa phi for that matter. Why the insistence that they can’t? The baby boomers I know are sexually active! So what? Get over it, roissy. You better hope you’re not obsolete in your middle years. Men will fuck anything at any age. It’s no big deal. Have never seen Sex and the City, astounding as that is. No interest in it. I’d rather knit sweaters for my cat in front of the fireplace in my rocking chair and bunny slippers.
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Seems like it’s at least somewhat popular among 20-somethings, unfortunately:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080527/ap_en_mo/sex_and_the_city_audience
Doesn’t say anything more than that they’re interested, though, so who knows how popular it is.
When the TV show came out, I remember lots of 20-somethings liking it — it’s great for the “my first apartment (that daddy’s paying for)” set.
But Roissy did say there would be few “17 – 21” year-olds, and I think that’s a safe bet. College girls don’t compete against each other by seeing who can be the most cosmopolitan, or whatever those SATC women are supposed to be: that’s definitely a status competition among females who are at least 23.
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You are right Sarah, but you are not asking the right questions. A man will only invest, commit or marry a woman when she is in her younger years, unless she has money, he wants a companion or a woman to take car of him in old age. A woman is succesful only if she gets resources from a man.
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sara: “Here’s the thing, as many of your readers point out: An attractive woman can get laid by an alpha, beta, or phi kappa phi for that matter.”
For that matter, an unattractive woman has an easier time getting laid than an attractive male. If just having sex is the goal, all women have it easier, as there are guys out there who will screw anything.
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“A woman’s biggest fear is aging into sexual invisibility.”
That’s not true. We’re not like the light in the refrigerator. We stay on, even when a man’s not looking at us.
Sheesh. Your inability to recognize women as separate human beings with rights and desires outside of a man is just odd. Where did you get the idea that only one half of the world’s population decides what makes us all happy?
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“A woman is succesful only if she gets resources from a man.”
Really? All golddiggers go to heaven or something like that?
And who is handing out the prizes for this “success?” It doesn’t count if she buys her own McMansion? It has to be a man buying it for her? Is there a committee that determines the important question of relative worth between women, like for instance, “This woman was given a diamond tennis bracelet, and that’s worth more than this other woman’s year’s membership at the spa, even though the dollar amount is the same, because the bracelet has resale value…”
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as there are guys out there who will screw anything.
Which is shameful, degrading, and disgusting, IMHO.
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A man will only invest, commit or marry a woman when she is in her younger years, unless she has money, he wants a companion or a woman to take car of him in old age.
But committing gives me the worst of both worlds since it requires an heavy financial payment and I’m stuck with awful boring married sex. It seems to make far more sense to have strong female friends who can supply my emotional needs and hot sexually attractive women to meet my sexual needs and desires. In this case, sex and emotional support are “assigned” to women who separately excel in each area instead of to one single woman who fails at both tasks, and this avoids the mess of having to cheat on my wife in a “committed” relationship.
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@DA
By the way, you always talk about a certain Wellesley queen. Is that your impossible true love?
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@Dizzy
No, the resources are mainly needed to feed and educate the legitimate offspring. You seem to be sort of selfish Dizzy, you have the typical American entitlement princess syndrome.
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“We’re not like the light in the refrigerator. We stay on, even when a man’s not looking at us.”
Even if you have it out for dizzy, guys, you have to admit that was both cleverly and succinctly put. And it also happens to be true.
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Do the SATC women have the Glorious Natural Pelt?
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17 “A woman is succesful only if she gets resources from a man.”
Oh Gannon! Surely you jest. I mean a PERSON is only successful if they are HAPPY. End of story.
roissy says “A woman’s biggest fear is aging into sexual invisibility.” Uh, no it is not. I would think a person would have a bigger fear of still being obsessed with sex and youth in old age. In India, if you tell an older person they look young, you have insulted them! Having a great sex life when it’s the natural thing to do makes sense. When your sex drive is in overdrive, have at it. But when it wanes, fades, or is gone, let it go for God’s sake. Who needs the unending nightmare? It is natural to let it go. LOL
In the West/USA we equate sex with living. If the sex drive is not 24/7 we need to see a doctor. I say, get over it. Age gracefully and gratefully. Or end up like Hugh Hefner. The only thing he’s missing is the Depends, but at least he will have hot chicks to change his didies.
I simply do not fit your mold as I can still get laid and quality men want to date me. It’s not such a big deal.
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Jesus Christ, this almost persuaded me to stay away from under-18 girls:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159206/ratings
Not only do they like the SATC show, but they gave it the highest rating of any demographic group.
Ah, but this is much more refreshing, the ratings of the SATC *movie*:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1000774/ratings
Now, under-18 girls hate it, while 20-somethings love it, and 30-somethings think it’s pretty good too.
So, what we see is a change over time among teenage cohorts: teens 10 years ago, when the TV show came out, were in love with it, while teens nowadays think it’s dopey. I’ve noticed anecdotally and evidence supports that they’re less feminist, more conservative, etc., nowadays.
Seriously, you guys who don’t hang out with college-age girls now don’t know what you’re missing. It’s not like the “return to the counter-culture” bullshit of the ’90s, when grunge, identity politics, PC, and rad fem enjoyed a new lease on life. That’s basically dead among youngsters now.
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I think Sarah’s statement proof something a lot of men know instinctively: that women over 35 really switch into grandmothermode and aren’t that interested in sex anymore.
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“I think Sarah’s statement proof something a lot of men know instinctively: that women over 35 really switch into grandmothermode and aren’t that interested in sex anymore.”
Proof for Sara, maybe, but you’d be foolish to paint all women with that brush.
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By the way, you always talk about a certain Wellesley queen. Is that your impossible true love?
In short, Wellesley Queen was a former platonic friend until she decided to stop being my friend once I admitted that I was lying about my academic performance. Essentially, she decided that being friends with a loser omega male who has nothing to show for himself was no longer worth her time. I miss her company, and I miss hugging her since she was my personal teddy bear.
Wellesley Queen wasn’t my impossible true love, but she was supposed to be long-term platonic friend who would have made being single very enjoyable. Her continued validation of my friendship was reassuring because she was so ambitious, but it lead to paranoia and depression once she “dumped me” which validated my status as a perpetual omega male loser.
You seem to be sort of selfish Dizzy, you have the typical American entitlement princess syndrome.
Gannon, given Dizzy’s track record, I’d argue that she’s the least likely to be the “entitled princess”.
that women over 35 really switch into grandmothermode and aren’t that interested in sex anymore
Gannon, if that’s true, where’s my incentive to marry that girl who’s ten years younger than me? Once she’s 35, I’ll be 45 and still willing and able to bang women. Most men aren’t going to put up with masturbating until their mid-sixties, so it seems that the only solution is to either force your wife into sex (read: rape) or cheat on her with younger women.
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“And who is handing out the prizes for this “success?” It doesn’t count if she buys her own McMansion? It has to be a man buying it for her?”
Gee, I wonder if women who have husbands that don’t work and buy their own McMansions are happy about it? Women love all sorts of wasteful stuff; cheaply made $600 shoes, cheaply made $1200 purses, unflattering designer clothing, diamonds (as plentiful as quartz, but expensive, so women love them). You’d almost think that women are hard-wired to like objects that represent significant commitments of resources.
Women are the ones who are handing out “prizes” to themselves for success or failure. In general, women are unhappy if they are providing for a man and unhappy if they are without a man. Feel free to ignore this when you’ve got daddy as a backup and when desires are cheap in your early 20s but as women get older the competition with married women gets tougher and tougher. Kids in private school, giant SUVs, big houses in expensive neighborhoods, etc. When men hit their earnings peak women are just starting to drop off in attractiveness so a single woman is both less able to attract a man to buy her the stuff she so craves and less able to keep up with her sisters in the materialistic competition that most women spend their lives engaging in. Ignoring this is whistling past the graveyard.
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DA: led to me to fear real world women spending a brief moment of their day mocking me and coming up with numerous reasons as to why I’m unworthy of any female.
Sheesh. Only socially invisible people have no people talking about them behind their back. You should be worrying about having no women thrashing your market value behind your back, not about the opposite.
As for the show, it started when I was a teenager (somewhat later than in the US) and most young girls watched it religiously. Roissy has it backwards: teenagers can’t imagine ever becoming old, so the realities of older singlehood will go straight past them without being a turn-off, but teenagers are desperate to gain maturity and knowledge about sex and SATC is a window to that (or at least it’s easy for a teenager to assume that it is). That’s why it was a *phenomenal* hit with teenagers but not so popular with actual cougar-age women, many of whom viciously hated it.
IMO the movie will still not attract many teenagers – but that’s because the show is passé, not because the theme wouldn’t be perfect for teenagers.
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Hey Roissy,
Looks like the Washington Post cribbed one of your recent blog post ideas for a story:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/29/AR2008052902944.html?hpid=features1&hpv=local
You might wanna comment on this…
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Only socially invisible people have no people talking about them behind their back. You should be worrying about having no women thrashing your market value behind your back, not about the opposite.
If women aren’t talking about you, you didn’t do anything that was foolish or embarrassing enough to gain their attention. I’d rather they not know that I exist, than for me to be known as some loser to women. Unless women are talking about you in a positive manner, it’s always better to not be spoken of during a conversation.
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Days of Broken Arrows spake:
“an unattractive woman has an easier time getting laid than an attractive male”
Amen to that. As long as she’s young, most any non-obese female can get laid as much as she wants, often by decent-looking men (commitment of course being a different ballgame).
A corollary: “Woe to the man who is good-looking but not not good-spending.”
Of course there are always some women (overweight, single mothers, etc.) who are hot for pretty betaboys, but as Warren Farrell pointed out in his classic “Why Men Are the Way They Are,” *any* man who lacks both confidence [assertiveness, cockiness, or what have you] and fritterable cash has it rough. Being very attractive just makes his situation more depressing (since, from others’ perspective, he has no excuse).
He can’t directly compete with alphas, and if he tries for women more than a rung or two below himself, they’re skeptical, self-conscious, even intimidated. Plus, for frosting, the pretty male still has to deal with the consequences of envy.
High beauty for a female, while certainly not without its negatives, is a gift from heaven…for a male, it’s only beneficial in conjunction with the things that all guys–largely regardless of appearance–need to get anywhere with women.
For many (most?) straight men, being a 9 or 10 is a liability.
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‘A corollary: “Woe to the man who is good-looking but not not good-spending.”’
the double-negative was a typo…as was the anonymous post…forgot to put my handle in.
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#3 Facefree,
You seem to be unaware that in real life, SJP has dated highly attractive and successful men – Robert Downey Jr before his life fell apart so badly; JFK Jr (who actually seemed to have a thing for long-nosed, thin-faced blonds, since he married one); and Matthew Broderick, whom she married.
She may not be to your taste, but it’s obvious that men don’t always see eye to eye on such matters.
Clio
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Clio,
You may want to reexamine at what constitutes successful. All I see is that SJP has dated a crackhead, a multiple bar exam flunker who also happened to be a shitty pilot and then she married Ferris Bueller. I guess Anthony Michael Hall was unavailable at the time.
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David Alexander = 40 year old virgin (though not quite technically due to Canadia chick).
Just like the coworker said, “see your problem is you put the pussy on a pedestel…”
But that’s not really different from many/most other guys…
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That, plus spending an seemingly endless supply of money on nice clothes, all living in great NYC apartments, all with great careers, meeting up with friends to swap stories, and exchange funny lines. Hell, I’m straight and it seems like an awesome life to me too!
Also, it must be noted that the most attractive of the group (Charlotte) falls for the schluppy “beta”.
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She may not be to your taste, but it’s obvious that men don’t always see eye to eye on such matters.
I believe that you’ve already been lectured by other commenters on this site about your inability to distinguish exceptions to the rule from the rule itself. Nevertheless, I’ll try to do my part to enlighten you.
None of the phenomena that Roissy discusses are absolute, you can always find an exception to a general trend. That said, when these exceptions are outweighed by that which happens more often, or is typical,the former is deemed less representative of reality than the latter.
I stand by my claim that the average man, most men, and more so the average alpha and most alphas would never exert significant effort in seducing SJP, at least in her SATC incarnation (read: over 30). I would also direct your attention, Clio, to my concession that she was more attractive in her twenties – that is, before the advent of the
TV series that made her an icon for the deluded, which is the subject Roissy addresses .
Matthew Broderick is “highly attractive” only to the small, atypical subset of women to which you evidently belong.
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If women aren’t talking about you, you didn’t do anything that was foolish or embarrassing enough to gain their attention.
Exactly. So, do something foolish and embarrassing. I wish I was a teen again so that I could get attention just by falling of chairs and getting all my answers wrong. It’s much more effort to be stupid as an adult. I’ll have to wait until I’m demented to reach my full game potential.
I’d rather they not know that I exist, than for me to be known as some loser to women.
That’s why you’re not getting laid.
Why don’t you try screwing up really badly? Travel to the next town or next state or South Africa, go to a bar and make yourself look really bad where no one will remember you. Tell some girls that you’re an unemployed garbage guy, a desperate virgin and possible gay. Add whatever it is that you most worry people are going to think of you. You might notice it isn’t the end of the world.
Unless women are talking about you in a positive manner, it’s always better to not be spoken of during a conversation.
Rubbish. If you don’t have any haters, you haven’t made any impression. Name any successful guy that doesn’t have people saying bad things about him behind their back. In fact, the bigger impression you make, the more people will be focusing on your superficial flaws to feel superior to you.
Women are always bitching about the stupid things their boyfriends do – but it’s the guys who do stupid things who have the girlfriends, not the guys who constantly worry about appearing flawless.
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40 IP
“Just like the coworker said, “see your problem is you put the pussy on a pedestel…””
And why should pussy not be placed on a pedestal? In fact the pedestal should be higher. Here’s the big difference; women get addicted to a particular dick, where as men get addicted to pussy in general. (The younger and more masculine the man, the more the need for variety.) It’s very hard for a woman to cope with that reality. She wants a man to feel the same way about her particular pussy as she feels about his particular cock. Men think “Oh, she’s trying to trap me! Must escape.” Whereas the woman IS trapped already. Gee, I am so smart.
42 Facefree “Matthew Broderick is “highly attractive” only to the small, atypical subset of women to which you evidently belong.”
He was awesomely cute in “Road to Wellville”.
Roissy: As a writer I thought you would enjoy this guys writing. He’s a superlative example of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, a writer of talent, and a PHD. SATC seems to encourage a wee bit of narcissism in it’s portrayal of the women characters?
http://samvak.tripod.com/entitlement.html
http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/narcissism/about_me.html
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Wow, some huge misconceptions on here! Sex does not wane after age 35 for women, in fact at around 40 it gets a huge boost as hormones pump out in preparation for peri-menopause. And even at 50 women are still very interested in sex. I was married 18 yrs the 1st time and now in the 11th year of my 2nd marriage, and I do not have boring sex in my marriage. The thinking that married sex is boring seems like a lazy excuse or lack of developing skills. Why commit? You won’t have to learn anything or grow as a person by finding some new chic to boink, eh! Good luck with that as you age!
This movie is not a barometer of real life, it’s entertainment just like any other movie. It is fun/fantasy, the series was no different than any other ‘soap series’ following – think Dallas, Melrose Place but with more fashion. The characters are extreme and that’s what makes them appealing.
Only really immature girls/women might try to emmulate the characters. And even though the focus is about sex/relationships/fashion – all the women did have careers that required a degree and real work.
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The movie was not as good as the series, but I still had fun seeing it with my 3 daughters(23, 29, 31) and a GF. My husband would have attended and drank a cosmo with me, too but he was at a disater recovery weekend for work (And I missed great hotel sex).
He thinks the series was funny and entertaining. And is obviously not afraid of sexually agressive women or worried that he should now ‘squat to pee’!
Our demographics: N. Illinois, both educated geeks, second marriage, reasonably attractive, varied interests, and combined income around 140,000yr – house on 10 acres will be paid for in 3 years
Oh and did I mention still having great sex?
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“I believe that you’ve already been lectured by other commenters on this site about your inability to distinguish exceptions to the rule from the rule itself. Nevertheless, I’ll try to do my part to enlighten you.”
In general, when other commentators have lectured me on this subject it has been because they misread some point of mine, or because – in certain cases – I didn’t make it well, having rushed through too quickly. The validity of the particular points I made was not necessarily affected. (For instance – regarding childbearing in one’s 30s, which may be statistically more difficult than in one’s 20s but still more likely than not to happen with ease. In other words, she’ll take longer to get pregnant, but the odds are she will get pregnant. Posters on that occasion had been writing as if it were game over at 30 for women, in terms of fertility.)
As to your point: Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, and they do not affect the truth of the rule – but this “rule” was so highly specific – that SJP is not attractive to men – that it seemed perfectly fair to point out that she has been in fact found attractive by several extremely attractive men.
When the “rule” is so narrowly specific, only a few counter-examples are required to refute it.
Clio
p.s. Broderick was the last word in cuteness to a whole generation of female movie goers (not mine), and appealed to male ones too – in Ferris Bueller’s Day Off, which was a sort of younger and less risque version of Risky Business. SJP was 32 when she married him, so her appeal apparently lasted past the age of 30.
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People who say Sex and the City isn’t realistic are wrong and right. If you take it as being literally about women, it’s not realistic. Problem was, for most of its existence it was never about women…it was about gay men.
The original book is by a woman, and from what I heard it was quite different than the series, which was created by Darren Star, a gay man, and his staff of writers, many of whom were gay men also. The raunchy sex talk, the promiscuity, the watching of gay porn, the attraction value they still have into their 30s and 40s, the witty snarky banter, their gay friends and immersion in the gay lifestyle…for the most part it was about gay men. If they actually made the show about four gay men it would not have been half as successful, so they smartly did a “trojan horse” and made a show about four gay men within a show ostensibly about four straight women.
Charlotte is the prudish in the closet upper crust gay person, Samantha is the extra queeny, flamboyant gay, Miranda is the career-oriented gay person in a high powered, professional work environment (you often see these types at white-collar law firms where they’re not closeted but not openly flamboyant either). Carrie is the middle of the road, well-rounded gay stereotype: not as queeny and libertine as Samantha, not as conservative and career driven as Miranda and not as prudish as Charlotte.
When taken as a representation of the NY gay lifestyle, the show is surprisingly realistic. The problem is when vapid, younger women watched the show and started thinking that they should be acting like gay men too (although they were too naive to realize that was what they were doing. In their minds they were actually becoming more genuine women). Many young, post-feminist women fall into this trap. For example I feel like vomiting every time I hear Tyra Banks brag about how she learned how to walk from drag queens. Think about that: women have become so clueless about natural femininity that they’ve resorted to using drag queens, who are a parody of femininity, as role models on how to be a more genuine woman. Sex and the City and Tyra learning how to be a sexy woman from drag queens are signs of the big problem a lot of urban, liberal women have nowadays: they are no longer using instincts to be women, they are emulating gay men and the result is a pale imitation of a parody of femininity.
I think Sex and the City was not a major advancement for straight women but rather was one for gay men. When Sex and the City first started I think the entertainment climate toward gay men was not that lucrative and was much more niche, but since that show, it made the mainstream much more gay-friendly and cleared the way for more openly gay fare like Queer Eye, Project Runway and Queer as Folk.
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Roissy,
Why. Do. You. Care?
And why do you spend so much energy coming up with venomous words and attacks aimed at a demographic of the population that you supposedly have no use for?
Trust me- they have no use for you either sweetie.
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Oh, also, if you want to see more about Sex and the City being about gay men, I really suggest a great article by Ann Coulter in her book How to Talk to a Liberal that is devoted solely to this topic. Pretty good stuff. It’s unavailable online, it seems, otherwise I’d link to it.
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T said:
“Think about that: women have become so clueless about natural femininity that they’ve resorted to using drag queens, who are a parody of femininity, as role models on how to be a more genuine woman.”
Great sentence! Kind of reminds me of the black singers who were influenced by people like Mick Jagger and Van Morrison, who were imitating black singers to begin with!!
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Why. Do. You. Care?
does the cat care about the mouse when he bats it around?
And why do you spend so much energy coming up with venomous words and attacks aimed at a demographic of the population that you supposedly have no use for?
actually, i expend very little energy doing this. when you’re having fun you hardly take time to notice effort spent.
Trust me- they have no use for you either sweetie.
incorrect. these aging cougars would love to extract commitment from me. too bad for them a quick rut in the woods is about all they can hope for.
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David Alexander = 40 year old virgin (though not quite technically due to Canadia chick).
Interestingly, I watched that film with the Canadian woman because she felt it would provide a lesson in dealing with women. I suspect that she feels the lesson failed miserably.
Exactly. So, do something foolish and embarrassing
Doing something that’s foolish and embarrassing is wrong. It garners negative attention which is wrong. No attention is always better than negative attention, especially if it’s for something embarrassing, like asking a girl out and being turned down or dropping something in a clumsy fashion.
Name any successful guy that doesn’t have people saying bad things about him behind their back.
There is certainly a difference between being a successful guy that people talk about behind their backs, and being a loser people talk about because he is a loser. The former implies that you’ve done something that people envy while the latter implies that you’re source of comedic humour for better and more successful people. I would prefer to not be discussed at all than to be a topic for humour for the entertainment of “the pretty people”.
Women are always bitching about the stupid things their boyfriends do – but it’s the guys who do stupid things who have the girlfriends, not the guys who constantly worry about appearing flawless.
Yes, but those men have positive characteristics that their girlfriends find compelling enough to tolerate the negative characteristics. If their negative characteristics were overwhelming the positive, their girlfriends would dump them.
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women have become so clueless about natural femininity that they’ve resorted to using drag queens, who are a parody of femininity, as role models on how to be a more genuine woman
So where are my non-trashy white girls with heavy makeup, long nails, high heels, and slutty looking clothes in the real world? The only place I’m finding them are in porn films…
they are no longer using instincts to be women, they are emulating gay men and the result is a pale imitation of a parody of femininity
I think I like this version better. Much more willing to having sex, and enjoy it. The old femininity lead to that boring married people sex that only losers liked.
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44, Sara: And why should pussy not be placed on a pedestal? Because the notion that vagina is somehow innately valuable, more than men proves that ‘feminism’ is usually not about sexual equality, but jealousy and revenge. Such a vile idea as ‘pussy on a pedestal’ implies clearly that women are ‘better’. It’s a malignant meme and should be crushed. Men who buy into it, almost universally are unable to see negative qualities in women. This yields men who are used and abused and it yields women who run unchecked in a spiraling ego-storm that spreads misery and ends in self destruction.
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Doing something that’s foolish and embarrassing is wrong.
Well go do it anyway. Even better, add something that’s just wrong. Go jaywalk or something. (Please don’t say that you don’t jaywalk because you’re afraid that people would see you as a criminal or a bum or whatever.)
No attention is always better than negative attention,
If you want to get laid, *any* attention is better than no attention. The only way you can avoid ever screwing up is if you give up screwing. Just accept that you’re going to screw up.
When I was a small kid, I used to impress my friends by doing the walks through dark cemeteries and abandoned houses that no one else did. I had discovered a simple method for it: instead of trying to fight my imagination and to convince myself that ghosts don’t exist, I just decided that ghosts are real and and pictured them everywhere. So I was getting a constant sense of relief when the ghosts were never there while my friends would work up a dread trying to fight imagining ghosts and ended up running away.
The same works at the bar: when you go talk to a woman expecting to be turned down, you can only get positively surprised. Just decide so. Go to a bar and tell a woman the craziest, most loserish things you can imagine.
especially if it’s for something embarrassing, like asking a girl out and being turned down or dropping something in a clumsy fashion.
I’m the clumsiest person on the planet. I often even drop myself. If you reveal excessive self-consciousness through it, it’s embarrassing, if you just let it go it doesn’t matter.
Yes, but those men have positive characteristics that their girlfriends find compelling enough to tolerate the negative characteristics.
Not really. Women want to feel superior to their men in some ways. In most relationships, the man is less responsible, more reckless, less agreeable and so on and the woman loves feeling like she’s bringing all those good things to the relationship. Women won’t tolerate a man who has fewer flaws than they do.
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I agree with most of you: it’s a fantasy for women. The bit about it being originally gay guys does strike me as believable; I think a lot of women just enjoy watching a show about glamorous women in a glamorous location buying glamorous clothing and dating glamorous men.
I have found that women need approval from men, specifically about their appearance, to feel OK about themselves. (Lesbians, I imagine, need approval from women, or at least some women.) It was funny how my old gf wound up getting really upset if she thought I thought she was unattractive, even though I was supposedly with her for her brains. Nope…had to be told she was pretty! If you take the bit from Foucault that men use power to get sex and women use sex to get power, it makes quite a bit of sense.
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Oh and I’m not DA. I have a very strange reason for wanting to bed women: I am a geek and want to improve my self-confidence for job schmoozing. No, really. You know how most guys want people skills to get chicks? I want chicks to get people skills so I can move up in the world. Weird huh?
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T dropped some serious knowledge. Respect.
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55 Animus
“Such a vile idea as ‘pussy on a pedestal’ implies clearly that women are ‘better’. ”
Not when dick is placed on the same pedestal. One should never assume….
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Please don’t say that you don’t jaywalk because you’re afraid that people would see you as a criminal or a bum or whatever.
Well, when you’re black, nearly every action is taken in context on whether you’re seen a criminal or ghetto and low-class.
Regardless, I live in NYC Metro, so jaywalking is acceptable, but when I was in California two weeks ago, I refrained from doing so because nobody else did it.
If you want to get laid, *any* attention is better than no attention.
Except that girls don’t have sex with men who gain attention for being nerds and doing clumsy ass embarrassing things. They make fun of them with their friends and they have sex with better men like Roosh.
The same works at the bar: when you go talk to a woman expecting to be turned down, you can only get positively surprised. Just decide so. Go to a bar and tell a woman the craziest, most loserish things you can imagine.
Doesn’t such behaviour put a man in the friend zone?
I’m the clumsiest person on the planet
Dude, you don’t sound like a half-assed retard who can barely speak coherently whenever you’re in person or on the phone. Despite years of speech therapy, it’s a miracle that anybody understands me.
Women want to feel superior to their men in some ways.
Maybe it’s my broken reptilian brain, but I can’t see myself as the inferior partner. It seems like a trait that’s common with third rate and lower class men, not men of proper social standing and class.
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Clio, the thing about harping on 30+ year old childless women is this:
– More difficult to get pregant, though not impossible
– More likely to have an unhealthy baby
– Losing her looks just at the time that the husband needs to invest more in her.
The 30+ year old childless woman should still pursue her dreams, but she would have been better served if she was consistently taught the obvious truth from a young age.
Oh, and SJP was very fuckable in her “L.A. Story” days. By the time of SATC she simply became a horse-face.
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David Alexander: “Interestingly, I watched that film with the Canadian woman…”
OMG! YOU HAD A DATE WITH ALIAS CLIO??!!!!!!
OMG!
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lol, cute. 🙂
Alias Clio is a Central Canadian while my friend grew up in Nova Scotia, and moved to the US 8 years ago. IIRC, if that picture of Alias Clio on her blog is true, my friend is the red headed version of Alias Clio with glasses…
BTW, while Alias is Catholic and virginal, my friend is a lapsed Anglican who would probably fit the definition of “slut” for many people…
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#36
*any* man who lacks both confidence [assertiveness, cockiness, or what have you] and fritterable cash has it rough.
fritterable cash isn’t as important as you might think.
as i’ve stated in earlier posts, the respect a man earns from a woman, like the length of time she makes him wait for sex, is inversely proportional to the amount of money he spends on her.
the optimal situation, of course, is to have the fritterable cash, but not actually to fritter it (at least not on women, anyway).
For many (most?) straight men, being a 9 or 10 is a liability.
bullshit. if you were reincarnated as a straight man, would you rather be a seven or a ten?
that’s what i thought.
however, you are right that a 9 or 10 without flair and confidence is worse off than his 6/7/8 peers, because appearance begets expectations. in other words, it’s better to be a gameless 7 than a gameless 10.
BUT
if you think a rich, cornfident 6 or 7 man will out-pull a 10 who’s broke as a joke but has tight game, you’re delusional.
yes, i know the rich 6 or 7 would have an easier time finding a hot wife, but that’s indentured servitude, not game.
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Confidence is key and most important. But women for sure respond to looks.
Women in their 30s are if anything hornier than women in their 20s, but in a different way…more multiple orgasms, less fresh curiousity.
The SATC lifestyle goes beyond men and women — it’s just the individualist, materialist, promiscuous, no-committment, teenager-forever lifestyle that’s easier than ever to have in a wealthy, libertine society. Roissy holds up a Sex and The City type lifestyle as the model for men to follow. It’s actually his ideal.
I’m sure he and others would argue that lifestyle is natural for men, unnatural for women. Women want to be married more than men, want to have kids more than men, etc. It may be true that women want that more when they’re young, but I also think in many ways women adopt more easily to being single past 40 than men do. They seem to form deeper friendships with other women, and be more satisfied with cats than men are with video games.
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It may be true that women want that more when they’re young, but I also think in many ways women adopt more easily to being single past 40 than men do.
don’t neglect the influence of confounding variables, most notably the near-universal subsidizing of newly single women’s lives by newly single men via alimony and ‘mommy support’.
sponsorship begets easy adaptation.
—
They seem to form deeper friendships with other women
to a great extent, this is because men’s unquestionably greater sacrifices for the sake of their families leave them unable to maintain their friendships with each other.
this is also because both men and women tend to value women more highly, which is the sad reason why the moronic cultural suicide known as feminism has infected society to such a great degree.
—
The SATC lifestyle goes beyond men and women — it’s just the individualist, materialist, promiscuous, no-committment, teenager-forever lifestyle that’s easier than ever to have in a wealthy, libertine society.
yeah, but you’re missing a key point: said lifestyle only gets the green light once Team Woman decides to adopt it.
i can’t tell you how many times i have heard straight-faced 30-40ish women tout the single life as ’empowering’ AND castigate men for their failure to commit, sometimes literally in the same breath.
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Saw the movie this weekend, I have only watched maybe three to five episodes and have a bit of an idea about it.
here is what I came away with, Mr. Big (Alpha with a heart) decides that Carrie is the person he wants to settle down with, as he is getting old and wants to be with her mostly for companionship. Sex is good but it is the little things he enjoys with her. They read in bed at night and dissicuss intelligently/lightheartedly what is going on in general. They go out to eat, movies etc. and generally enjoy each others company. Big feels that Carrie can prove this by marrying him in a small ceremony with just her closest friends. She can have the big closet full of clothes, blow money like it is going out of style, but no princess wedding as it would make what he feels for her seem cheap. She agrees and then goes whole hog(gay) and does the big wedding princess trip on steroids anyway.
Mr. Big asserts himself and pulls a no show at the grand wedding, and in the end when HE GETS HIS WAY and married her at the courthouse, he rewards her good behavior with her freinds being there.
Subliminally it is possibly the biggest alpha training movie ever.
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72 Usually “the thing about harping on 30+ year old childless women is this:”
Today’s Yahoo homepage has an article harping on marginally content/disappointed male 40 plusers who have never been married. This is my somewhat socially incorrect take on both the childless female 30 plusers and the never-been-married male 40 plusers; both may be suffering from arrested development. But that only applies to men who have a strong belief that they can’t be happy, fulfilled, or real men if they don’t get married, and women who have the belief they can’t be happy, fulfilled, or real women if they don’t have children. The desire for marriage and children is part biological and part socializing and the odds of being happy sans those two outcomes, depends on the degree of either influence. If more of those marginally happy pseudo-confirmed bachelors and marginally happy pseudo-content childless women would just drop their childish egos and ……..
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60:
Not when dick is placed on the same pedestal. One should never assume….
It isn’t. If it was, then getting laid would not be so much of a chore for some men. Men put *all* pussy on a pedestal. Women put cock on the pedestal after some serious bond and sex has happened. The two are not even remotely analogous.
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If more of those marginally happy pseudo-confirmed bachelors and marginally happy pseudo-content childless women would just drop their childish egos and ……..
Sara, I just read the article and it did not seem that the guys interviewed were displaying childish egos.
40% of the guys interviewed did not want to have children. When you are dead certain that you dod not want to have children, marriage becomes an absolute after-thought. As in, “why bother”.
Of the rest, money was the number one issue. Either low self esteem (I do not make enough to offer her anything) or a realistic apprasial of what might happen to them if they get married (and divorced).
Childless women over the age of 35 absolutely reek of desperation. Not all of them, but most of them.
Childless women between 30 and 35 are not as desperate, but, they are definitely not as fun and exciting as their younger sisters.
These guys are not desperate, they are terrified.
So, for the two groups to get together you do not need them both to drop some sort of childish egos, but rather level the playing field so that the one group does not see marriage as a soul-sucking, money-swindling, child-taking affair.
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70 animus
Men and women are decidedly opposite if looked at one way and decidedly complimentary if looked at another but rarely are.
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71 Usually L.
“Of the rest, money was the number one issue. Either low self esteem (I do not make enough to offer her anything) or a realistic apprasial of what might happen to them if they get married (and divorced).”
Negative, negative, negative. All negative reasons equalling FEAR. You might look at it as excessive fear = immaturity. Then again, you might not.
“level the playing field so that the one group does not see marriage as a soul-sucking, money-swindling, child-taking affair.”
Desperate and terrifying are what is soul sucking. Fear of marriage/spinsterhood, money-swindling/bankruptcy, child-taking/childlessness are what is soul sucking.
This is what happens; first the emotion of fear, then the thoughts are conjured to back it up. So many do this that there are studies upon studies to now prove that fear is 100% justified in all categories. Nothing to fear but fear itself–hmmmmmm?
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72 and 73 are very good points and posts from Sara.
73 is particularly good on the role of fear. Marriage for men involves a real risk of just getting totally reamed by your wife. It’s actually decent odds for most of us — the divorce rate for college-educated people who marry after 25 years old is well under 50 percent — but the risk is real. Even think about that can be petrifying.
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To be honest Sarah, most of your posts are so esoteric that I really don’t understand them.
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75 Gannon
The word esoteric originates from the Greek meaning inner or “within”, as opposed to exoteric meaning “outer”. Few take the inward journey, making “esoteric” sometimes have a negative meaning such as “obtuse”. Sounds like that is what you mean.
Here is the dictionary version: “intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest such as: esoteric philosophical debates.”
74 mq
“the divorce rate for college-educated people who marry after 25 years old is well under 50 percent — but the risk is real. ”
The risk is REAL, but how much attention are you going to give it?
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This post got swallowed up by WordPress, hopefully, it will work this time…
One more quote:
“A compelling issue was how many of them had found contentment in a never-married life,” he said. “They had created lives full of careers, friends and ambitions. It was not like they walk around all day worried about not being married.”
This is drastically different than:
Marry Him!
The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough by Lori Gottlieb
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/single-marry
Look, nowadays, any guy with a brain in his head should be aware that he has the upper hand. For better or worse, it is now up to the girls to prove to the guys that marriage is a worthwhile endeavor. I don’t mean an endeavor that is NOT terrifying, but actually worthwhile.
That is, that he will be as excited about getting married as she is. Right now, we are a long way away from that.
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All negative reasons equalling FEAR. You might look at it as excessive fear = immaturity. Then again, you might not.
Some people fear the number 13. Others fear gang violence that is rampant in their neighborhood. Some fears are more reasonable than others. A man’s fear of losing his children, house and half his paycheck are pretty reasonable in my opinion. More importantly, it is reasonable to most of the men that were interviewed.
Fear of marriage/spinsterhood, money-swindling/bankruptcy, child-taking/childlessness are what is soul sucking.
Sara, did you read what the men actually had to say. They were happy with their decision not to marry. Now, they could be lying. But, if we take them at their word, tehn they have created for themselves satisfying lives. That is usually something that commands respect or, even, pride. These men do not show any of the outward signs that a typical pathetic male displays (well, except for the low self-esteem group, but, they made up a small minority).
Nothing to fear but fear itself–hmmmmmm?
Nothing to fear but losing your children, your house, your car and half your paycheck. This is not some conjured dystopian future, this is our current reality.
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It’s actually decent odds for most of us — the divorce rate for college-educated people who marry after 25 years old is well under 50 percent — but the risk is real.
Also, dont forget that many men who are married and have never divorced report low satisfaction with their married lives. That is, from the numbers that I remember, 50% of men will be divorced and of the remaining 50% only 60% (therefore, 30% of all married and married-then-divorced men) are happy with their marriages.
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The risk is REAL, but how much attention are you going to give it?
As much as we need to make sure that we do not end up miserable…which the interviewed men were not.
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sara channeled deepak chopra:
Today’s Yahoo homepage has an article harping on marginally content/disappointed male 40 plusers who have never been married. This is my somewhat socially incorrect take on both the childless female 30 plusers and the never-been-married male 40 plusers; both may be suffering from arrested development. But that only applies to men who have a strong belief that they can’t be happy, fulfilled, or real men if they don’t get married, and women who have the belief they can’t be happy, fulfilled, or real women if they don’t have children. The desire for marriage and children is part biological and part socializing and the odds of being happy sans those two outcomes, depends on the degree of either influence. If more of those marginally happy pseudo-confirmed bachelors and marginally happy pseudo-content childless women would just drop their childish egos
sara as usual your mental processes are splayed all over the internet canvas like a jackson pollack painting.
the reason men are foreswearing marriage has nothing to do with any “arrested development” issues of the sort you like to continually spout off about like a retarded psychobabble robot. it’s instead a cold calculated response to the raw deal that modern marriage has become for in-demand single men, both financially and emotionally. as i have written about in my post Don’t Get Married, marriage means a high risk of divorce theft, enforced monogamy, and second class legal status for men.
in a word, marriage is a social mechanism designed to exchange sex for indentured servitude, and when the deal is broken, often on zero pretense by the wives, it’s the dutiful ex-husband (i.e. slaves) who get victimized twice.
men are beginning to cast a jaundiced eye at marriage and are asking themselves “why would i risk losing everything on a woman who can leave me at the drop of a hat and leverage the full force of the law against my interests?” smart, successful men are learning that they can be just as happy outside of marriage saving their sanity and their money and having loving relationships without the imprimatur of the law.
less successful men are finding that the economic empowerment of post-feminism women has meant they don’t have as much to bring to the table and are therefore shrewdly avoiding marriage to women who would equal or best them in status, knowing full well deep down in the subconscious part of their brains that such a lopsided yin-yang arrangment is a recipe for asexual misery and eventual divorce.
and thus, with these forces aligning, GAME was born.
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80 Usually L.
If people are truly happy, why all the discussion, seeking justification, touting studies, etc. in the first place? You seem to be saying they’re scared shitless for good reason and studies prove that they should be, but they’re at the same time happy, content, and fulfilled. Maybe they’ve just lowered their expectations. Then again maybe not. I have my own issues to deal with. ^_^
I do know this: we get what we focus on with emotion; positive or negative.
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81 Roissy,
Your thinking is so 2008.
Oh hell, you don’t read for comprehension either. Who does? We all just want to vent, prove a point, look smart, or at best enlighten someone. I don’t blame ANYONE for not wanting to get married, but it’s a bit of a conundrum when most of us have been raised to think a great marriage is the apex of human life experience.
“you like to continually spout off about like a retarded psychobabble robot.”
Now, was that really called for?
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You seem to be saying they’re scared shitless for good reason and studies prove that they should be, but they’re at the same time happy, content, and fulfilled.
You seem to be saying they’re scared shitless of getting married for good reason and …
They are also scared of swimming with sharks, so, they don’t do that either.
When they are not swimming with sharks, they are happy. This is not a hard one to figure out.
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84 U.L. and roissy.
Enjoy your singledom. I’m enjoying mine.
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That means you already had your children, right Sarah?
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Roissy, you’re just having a hissy fit because mq actually GOT a few of my esoteric points.
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86 Gannon
Yes I had my one miracle child. So what? You guys are so mean. x_x
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Enjoy your singledom.
Sara, to be honest, it sounds like you, and so many other women, absolutely hate the fact that men view marriage, rightfully, as a bad deal.
I mean, you could have easily picked at my points one by one and destroyed them. Unless, they were valid points.
I am enjoying my single life, but, for the average childless woman, I don’t think that she could honestly say the same.
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At least in the good old days when you married you got a 17 year old virgin. Now you get a 32 year old bride with STDs and a child from another man to feed.
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89 U. Lurking
“you could have easily picked at my points one by one and destroyed them. Unless, they were valid points.”
That is your style, not mine. Believe it or not, I don’t honestly care how men view marriage. The type of marriage I would want would not be the normal marriage anyway. It would not be for love, or money, or children, but something more…….esoteric.
Though few read for comprehension I was pointing out the conflicts people have such as “If I am having lots of casual sex, does that make it harder for me to find the right woman/man for me?” It would probably make it impossible if you BELIEVE that having lots of casual sex keeps you from find the right man/woman for you, whether marriage is your goal or not. In order to get what we want, we need to be in harmony with our beliefs or change them.
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I don’t honestly care how men view marriage
BULL-FUCKING-SHIT.
Sara, if you didn’t care then the tone of your comments would be very different. Caring about things like this, Marriage and the Sexes, says nothing bad about a person.
In fact, to truly not care about something like this would mean there is something wrong with you.
Look, “esoteric”, “harmony”, whatever. We can all see the writing on the wall. Men now view marriage as a prison sentence. Women do not. They may be hesitant to get married when they are young, but they do not have nightmares about it (in general). Men do.
Men are getting a raw deal, and women absolutely hate that we KNOW that to be true. So, men are starting to check out.
Things are going to change, and are changing, and you better believe that the average girl will not be happier because of it.
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92 UL
“Things are going to change, and are changing, and you better believe that the average girl will not be happier because of it.”
You paint a pretty ugly picture. Sounds like you’re advocating “really giving it to them”, and not in a good way. Women have the same survival instincts men do. No one is going to “bend” to the will of the other except in very unhealthy relationships of which there are PLENTY..
What I mean, when I say I don’t care, is I don’t lose any sleep over it. It interests me what people’s views are on everything, but it doesn’t concern me. What concerns me, is my own view and my own life. All stems from the individual. Individuals are the only REAL thing. If you have to check in with the stats to see how you’re doing in comparison to the majority, you’re doomed already. Not you, in particular. Anybody.
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How are you guys going to have your children without marriage? Are women willing to carry your babies and give to them like you would never believe without it? Am just asking. ….. I feel bad for older women who dearly wanted to bear a child and have not, but feeling bad won’t help them. It sounds like a lose/lose situation going on out there and you guys are in the middle of it. Yet, you have a greater opportunity for true equality in your relationships too; relationships not built on dependence but interdependence.
Out of chaos a new order will be form if I might be allowed to babble a bit. Marriage needs to be something higher. A deep friendship where both win in spades. Hardly anyone is going to happy with anything less. It’s a good thing, but requires a higher intelligence and intention.
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mq
72 and 73 are very good points and posts from Sara. Funny you should say that! I thought 72 was mostly a dodge. I made a point that how men idealize women sexually and how women idealize men sexually, pointing out a disparity. Sara made a vague comment about complimentary natures. There’s nothing complimentary or fair about holding the vagina as sacred. If she wants to contend otherwise, I’d love to hear a coherent argument.
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95 Animus
Sorry, I’m not much into arguing. I do however like to make points and engage in social intercourse. Both the vagina and penis are sacred and when we treat them as such the world will be transformed. Too vague? The long version is too esoteric for this group.
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Population Continent/Region (in millions)
Continent
Year 1999 2025
Asia 3,588 4,785
Africa 778 1,454
Europe 729 701
Latin America, Caribbean 499 690
United States and Canada 304 369
Australasia, S. Pacific 29 41
I think you guys better get busy. To ME, this says Americans are getting too neurotic to have children. They are becoming emotionally sterile, if not physically. They are becoming unnatural, though studies say we are “normal”.
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You paint a pretty ugly picture. Sounds like you’re advocating “really giving it to them”, and not in a good way.
Things may be ugly now, but they don’t need to be. And if you mean “giving it to them” as in “giving them the truth”, then, yes, absolutely.
Girls, and boys, are lied to as they grow up. The truth is, and has likely always been, politically incorrect.
And, bending is not breaking. Cultures change all the time. And the Western Culture that castigates people who are politically incorrect as blasphemers needs to change. It is obviously failing at some basic things.
How are you guys going to have your children without marriage?
You may have noticed, here especially, that men do not have the same biological clock that women do. And that is probably especially true for guys who get regular sex from different women. Men are not desperate for children, women are. Again, this is a power struggle that women are losing.
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Sara, does Japan NEED to have more children? Or Iceland? Or Finland? They seem to be doing just fine without huge increases. As long as they can successfully keep out invaders, which is less and less of a problem in the modern world, they will probably keep doing fine.
To put it another way, plenty of land for a stable population. Sounds quite nice.
Now, Los Angeles, with its huge population increase over the last few decades, that is basically an ecological disaster.
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U. Lurk
“Men are not desperate for children, women are. Again, this is a power struggle that women are losing.”
Well, it doesn’t sound to me like anyone is actually winning in the scenarios often painted here. What is it you expect from women in order to “win” and get the children, family, and love they want? What would you have them do differently? Seems to me, they are making choices and even if it’s the lesser of two evils, that’s what they are choosing; to remain childless regardless of desires to the contrary. You cannot know what is going on in their hearts and minds, or run their lives any better than they could run your life.
You’re not old yet, but when you get there, it’s sounds like you’ll have a lot of single, childless men to hang out with. If that sounds good, great, or even just the lesser of two evils, you’re fee to choose that, same as women can make the same choice.
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What would you have them do differently?
For one, stop lying to the children. This goes for any adult that will be involved in the raising of a child.
Little Girl: “Can a girl do anything that a boy can do?”
Wise Adult: “Of course not.”
Little Girl: “So, boys are better?”
Wise Adult: “Well, they certainly can’t give birth. So, no.”
That would be part of the early steps. For later, CHANGE THE GOD DAMN MARRIAGE< ALIMONY AND CHILD SUPPORT LAWS.
That would change so much. Men would no longer be “terrified” of getting married. Actually, that one things would probably change everything.
You cannot know what is going on in their hearts and minds, or run their lives any better than they could run your life.
I am not looking to run anyones life but mine. But, I will not help spread lies either.
You’re not old yet, but when you get there, it’s sounds like you’ll have a lot of single, childless men to hang out with.
I have every intention of getting married and having children. And I am preparing so that girl I love will know exactly where I stand. But that is a subject for another day.
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101 UL
“CHANGE THE GOD DAMN MARRIAGE< ALIMONY AND CHILD SUPPORT LAWS.”
Well, it’s hard to have it both ways.
#1 It’s better if mother’s raise their own children assuming they’re not certifiably insane.
#2 They don’t get paid to stay home with their kids.
In the case of divorce then, would you force a woman with young children to put the child in daycare so she can get a job and support the child on her own as a single parent? Would you have ANY child support provided by the father? If so, how much? How would it be determined? If she had a career before the child was born and her skills are now obsolete or she needs to go back to school to reenter the work force in something other than a minimum wage job, how would you handle the interim period? Would you take the child and care for them while she went back to school? Would you pay half of the daycare? What if she took care of everything at home including the child while you were working your way up in your career? Does that hold no value to you? Should she have perhaps been paid for that? If so, how much? If not, why not? Do you think you could devise a fairer system for all concerned? Whose needs would come first? The father, the mother, or the children? What is your responsibility in bringing another human into the world? What if you were the one staying home and raising the child and she was the one working outside the home? If the tables were turned, what would you want the laws to be.
I think the #! problem in this country is rampant good old American narcissism. The inability to empathize.
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Usually Lurking – Dude, why do you need new laws? Get a prenup in writing if you fear for your assets. Spell out in writing EXACTLY what is expected from the other and EXACTLY what will happen if expectations are not met.
Claiming “terror” at the thought of paying alimony as an excuse for not marrying is a crock of shit.
If you don’t want to marry despite being able to sign a prenup it’s because You. Don’t. Want. To. Marry.
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Prenups actually cover very little, especially when children are involved, and are the leading cause of malpractice suits in the family law legal community.
A judge can rule a prenup “unconscionable” for no reason at all – it is completely at his or her discretion.
See here:
http://tinyurl.com/bemkr
Contract law does not apply in family court, nor do any Constitutional rights to due process or freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, among others.
Men should stay single until family court laws and procedures are made equitable and even-handed.
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Marriage needs to be something higher. A deep friendship where both win in spades. Hardly anyone is going to happy with anything less. It’s a good thing, but requires a higher intelligence and intention.
I agree completely with this. Marriage is high-risk *and* high-reward. Because it allows you to connect more deeply to the real complementarities between men and women that Sara referenced in 72. I think PUA stuff is true in one sense, but taken to the extreme it blocks you off from realizing the potential rewards to bonding.
So long as you are pumping and dumping, you are at some level stuck with the opposite/hostile/battle of the sexes state. Granted, you are still in a much better situation than being stuck in that state while married, so it’s lower risk.
Fear is irrational and rational — it is an emotion and also a choice about risk. But the emotional part of it is dangerous and paralyzing.
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In the case of divorce then…
In the case of divorce, the settlement would likely near 50/50.
Would you have ANY child support provided by…
It depends. Who got the majority custody? Why? Assuming that their isn’t No Fault Divorce, which there shouldn’t be, then a more equitable decision can be made.
You have a bunch more questions, all concerning the female. Now, take your turn and ask a bunch of questions concerning his needs to family and finances. Stop being so narcissistic and start being more empathetic.
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Get a prenup in writing if you fear for your assets.
Prenups solve very little. According to the reports that I have read, including those in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times, a prenup can be overturned or ignored for any reason by the judge.
Actually, the judge does not even need to offer a reason.
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—–
Roissy,
Why. Do. You. Care?
And why do you spend so much energy coming up with venomous words and attacks aimed at a demographic of the population that you supposedly have no use for?
Trust me- they have no use for you either sweetie.
—-
Oh, he has to care, because it doesn’t really matter wether he doesn’t care about them, they most certainly ‘care’ about HIM. Men may suffer quitely… or not. Often not. But women really go for the envious, spiteful, petty attack… at men who may very well have done nothing themselves.
Bitter, unmarried, 30s-40s women pumped up on envy from the imaginary “Sex and the City” world are a MENACE. To other women, yes, to men, yes, to everyone in the immediate vicinity. To be clear:
Men may suffer quitely.
Women act. Randomly. Enviously, pettily, whatever. Pumping the sense of entitlement up is very counter-productive.
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96 sara
Sorry, I’m not much into arguing. I do however like to make points and engage in social intercourse. Both the vagina and penis are sacred and when we treat them as such the world will be transformed. Too vague? The long version is too esoteric for this group.
Who’s arguing? You made a point and I made a counter-point. Is it not social intercourse because it lacks a certain unitarian subtext? Either way, I think you are taking my use of the word ‘sacred’ a little too seriously. I can see someone making a vigorous point about the world being transformed by something along deep reverence and respect. But when I refer to men treating the vagina as ‘sacred’, that’s not what I mean. I’m talking about so blindly accepting someone as to elevate them to an objective status. That is a place where no real emotional bond occurs. To men, “pussy on a pedestal” refers to an idea that any woman who would consider sleeping with a man is of extreme sanctity, of angelic nature and an object of worship. Even if both people regard each other like that, it’s not healthy. People should view each other as what they are, flawed human beings, not near-deities.
As for your longer version being too esoteric? Who’s doing the assuming now? Careful where you point that gun, sweetie.
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The vagina is not sacred. Only teen virgins are sacred.
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There are to many people who comment on this show whithout having watched an entire season. The only woman who got around was Samantha. The only character who was obessed with clothes was Carrie.
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*without*
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Bernie said :”Usually Lurking – Dude, why do you need new laws? Get a prenup in writing if you fear for your assets.”
Look at what Bill Murray’s wife is doing: Going public with allegations in their divorce, hopes of getting more money.
A pre-nup won’t save you from this sort of blackmail, nor will it help you if your wife decides to take your children away to another state, or accuse you of molesting them to get full custody — the latter of which lawyers regularly encourage women to do in court.
Once again, I’m recommenting people go to Glenn Sacks’ blog to learn more about some of the divorce horror stories out there.
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109 Animus
“As for your longer version being too esoteric? Who’s doing the assuming now? Careful where you point that gun, sweetie.”
Seriously, you are the first on this site who ever WANTED the long version. Mostly I’m ACCUSED of being esoteric, not exactly admired for it. Roissy just today referred to me as a “a retarded psychobabble robot”. If you want me to, I could dig up some more insults. It might be fun, actually.
As far as putting “pussy on a pedestal”; I was making a point, but I understand what you personally imagine when I use that phrase, and what most men here would think that meant. No one really benefits from being objectified. Especially not when you’re valued as A object and not THE object of one’s desire.
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108 Comment
“Pumping the sense of entitlement up is very counter-productive.”
My latest psychological interest; Narcissistic Personality Disorder. A rather recent (1980’s) addition to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). It seems more and more people are being diagnosed with it. Am not trying to disparage the male population but it is by and large a male affliction, with women suffering more from Borderline Personality Disorder. There is also questions about gender bias in diagnosing. The bottom line I think, is lots of people are screwed up. It’s not fair or accurate to disparage an entire gender. In fact it’s juvenile and cowardly.
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Narcissistic Personality Disorder might be classified as a male thing, but all these classifications are political. Meaning that in modern psychology, the female is considered the norm, and the male is considered the abberant.
This is why normal, healthy boys are drugged and made to stay still in classrooms blunting their natural curiosity. Meanwhile, the docile unimaginative minds of little girls are now considered the “norm.” Women did not build society and it should be a horror to everyone that the minds of young girls (fixated on LibbyLu and Miley Cyrus) are considered the best this country can do.
As for narcissism, well, it’s considered abberant in men because men, in this society are supposed to be “chivalrous” and “man up” and think only of others. Meanwhile, women have magazines called things like Self and spend zillions on products to enhance their beauty. Narcissism is the norm for women, to a large degree. When Clinique goes bankrupt, then we can talk about why is more self-directed.
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116 DOBA
Actually NPD is a very, very serious mental disorder. I had the extreme misfortune of dealing with such a man, but have turned the experience into a positive. Mental illness is no joke or political tool. My own brother is Schizophrenic and he’s just the worst off of the bunch. You’re trivializing a bit, but making a good point too. The whole A.D.D. thing is very controversial; perhaps political, social conditioning, perhaps chemical imbalance, toxicity.
Personally I am not into drugging children. Was put on ritalin myself as a child and it felt horrible. Your comments are bitterly anti-woman and also somewhat understandable. The media is encouraging female egoism. Why? Because women spend 80% of the money. I hate commercials that make men look like idiots. Anyone should be able to see what the advertisers are doing! People just need to wake up to how they are being manipulated like sheep.
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“Meanwhile, women have magazines called things like Self and spend zillions on products to enhance their beauty. Narcissism is the norm for women, to a large degree. When Clinique goes bankrupt, then we can talk about why is more self-directed.”
These businesses exist to capitalize on (most) women’s belief that THEIR APPEARANCE IS THEIR ONLY SOURCE OF VALUE. You guys spend all your time here promoting the message that the only things women have to offer are their looks and fertility: why are you so surprised at the results of that message being internalized when it’s also the primary message of the media? Everyone in the US, men and women alike, is being pummeled 24/7 with the deification of youth & beauty — and sneering disdain for aging, despite its inevitability.
Let’s not pretend for one second that these businesses exist for the benefit of the women who patronize them. They are money-making organizations, the vast majority of which I’ll go out on a limb and guess are owned & operated by men.
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For those who believe that aging is only an issue for women having children, a warning (from the Daily Telegraph):
A mass study found that deaths of children fathered by over-45s occurred at almost twice the rate of those fathered by men aged between 25 and 30.
Scientists believe that children of older fathers are more likely to suffer particular congenital defects as well as autism, schizophrenia and epilepsy. The study was the first of its kind of such magnitude in the West, and researchers believe the findings are linked to the declining quality of sperm as men age.
A total of 100,000 children born between 1980 and 1996 were examined, of whom 830 have so far died before they reached 18, the majority when they were less than a year old.
Clio
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Clio:
There goes the myth that there are no negative repercussions to men making babies into old age. Time for the boys to visit their local sperm bank just in case.
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There goes the myth that there are no negative repercussions to men making babies into old age.
read the article. once you get past the sensationalistic headline, the numbers show that the frequency of problems for older men having kids is an order of magnitude less than the frequency of problems for older mothers.
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121 roissy
“A French study found that male fertility takes a nosedive when a man reaches the age of 40. ”
Well, this is nature’s way of saying get busy. Men and women need to shit or get off the pot before the age of 40. It only makes sense, doesn’t it? Your flaccid attempt to minimize the study findings proves you are personally in denial.
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Your flaccid attempt to minimize the study findings proves you are personally in denial.
math scares you, doesn’t it?
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Read my comment, Roissy. I didn’t try to say that the problem was equal for older men and women. I only wanted to indicate (to young women who might be reading this) that they might want to think twice about taking on older husbands if they want to guarantee that they have healthy babies.
Wouldn’t want the little sisters to have, you know, false hopes about what they can expect from their geezer bfs.
I’m told potency also declines with age, especially for men who do lots of drugs. (Even the prettiest young wife can only do so much for her aging stud.) Cigarettes, marijuana, and alcohol all have unpleasant side effects in that respect. So does getting fat.
clio
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I only wanted to indicate (to young women who might be reading this) that they might want to think twice about taking on older husbands if they want to guarantee that they have healthy babies.
The mother’s age still has the bigger impact on child health, however. About one in 900 babies born to women under 30 have Down’s syndrome – a figure which reaches one in 100 by the age of 40.
they’d be better served by advice that they worry more about their own ticking biological clocks.
Wouldn’t want the little sisters to have, you know, false hopes about what they can expect from their geezer bfs.
hey, that’s the beauty of abortion! just get rid of those afflicted fetuses and hit the sheets soldier!
I’m told potency also declines with age, especially for men who do lots of drugs.
age-related declines in male potency proceed at a much slower rate than hagged-out-wife-related declines in male potency.
(Even the prettiest young wife can only do so much for her aging stud.)
you have no idea…
Cigarettes, marijuana, and alcohol all have unpleasant side effects in that respect. So does getting fat.
true on all the above. but then all those things also fuck up the performance and potency of younger men.
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It always surprises me how many women have zero grasp of numbers.
Reality ckeck:
If the man is young, 0,5% of their offspring will be death before 18. If the man is old, 1% of their offspring will be death before the child is 18. So the total risk is extremely low for the woman.
However, at 30, 20% of women are de facto infertile
At 35, 50% of women are de facto infertile
At 40, 80% of women are de facto infertile.
(de facto infertile means that the women could get preganant, but her pregnancies end in abortion).
An older man will produce more sick kids, sure, but that is something like 2 in hundred versus 1 in hundred for a young healthy man. Also, an older man will have to fuck the woman six times instead of three times to get her pregnant.
But for a a lot of women over 30 it’s 100% GAME OVER.
The problem with a 55 year old man isn’t that he can’t produce kids, but that he might be death or unable to raise them (so it’s not an issue if he is rich enough)
40 year old succesful man= great catch
40 year old woman= past her expiration date, grandmother
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Anonymous Clio:
They’ll be hitting the sperm bank under cover of night in disguise.
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You guys can argue with this if you like, and you will; but it’s not looking too good.
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20070830-000004.xml
“Fisch has found that when both parents are over 35, paternal aging may be responsible for as many as half of all cases of Down syndrome, formerly thought to be inherited from the mother”
“And recent studies show that half a dozen or more rare but serious birth defects appear to be inherited exclusively from the father, including Apert syndrome, Crouzon syndrome, and Pfeiffer syndrome (all characterized by facial abnormalities and the premature fusion of skull bones) as well as achondroplasia (the most common form of dwarfism).:
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Umm…who gives a shit?
I really couldn’t care less about the quality of my sperm when I’m 50. There will always be someone to receive it, whether it swims in circles or not.
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Psychology Today is now edited by a woman and has a clear anti-male agenda. A recent cover image showed something like a woman stepping on a man.
Not a publication to be taken seriously. I’m sure the numbers in their story were gotten from a partisan source. Kind of like the recent Wash Post article that claimed “boys are fine in school!” Turns out the only “source” was a feminist group that commissioned their own “study.”
This is why men don’t partake of mass media for the most part and have flocked to places like this.
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sara stamped her wee aging feet:
You guys can argue with this if you like, and you will; but it’s not looking too good.
actually, it’s looking pretty good for men, even in this twisted partisan hack of an article from psychology today that you linked to:
“If women are under age 35, the father’s age may not matter that much, but if the mother is over 35, advanced male age can be a real problem.” says Jabs.
[edotor’s note: another great reason, as if one was needed, for guys to date younger women. ha haaw!]
Most men can steer a gentler course just by watching their health. “Despite the new research, there’s still a big difference between the female and the male biological clock,” says Muller. “When the female’s alarm goes off at the end, that’s it. For men, the battery slowly winds down. Yes, chance of problems increase as the years pass, but some men have significant DNA damage at 35, while others go on forever—their sperm is fine in their 70s.”
Men can’t rewind their biological clocks, but they can slow them down, Fisch agrees. Just remember, once you’re in your 40s, you’re past your maintenance-free years—you have to take care of yourself. “If you want children from then on,” he advises, “get into the best shape of your life.”
bottom line: women who want children are more fucked by aging than men who want children. there’s no getting around this basic biological fact of life.
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In simpler words: for men it’s a slow and small decline in quality. For women, it’s a wall it’s literally GAME OVER.
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131 roissy
Well I guess you showed ME!!!
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Well I guess you showed ME!!!
bow to your master sara. yes, that’s right, you like it that way. you love submitting to me. good good. on your knees. look at it. kiss it. take it all in, you dirty little minx. all the way in… who’s your king and savior? who, sara? exactly. look up at me sara. i didn’t say you could close your eyes. up here. that’s better. you can’t get enough of me. i want to hear you beg for it. beg for more. more is on the way, sara, patience… it’s coming.
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I haven’t taken the time to read all of these comments, but I will openly admit that I saw the movie and I thought it was great! =) That doesn’t mean I think it is realistic, but not all of the characters (specifically Charlotte and Miranda) perpetrate the fiction that women can hold out well into their 40s and end up with the man of their dreams, a multi-million dollar apartment on park avenue, and better clothes than an A list celebrity.
Roissy I think that you would appreciate that Miranda, who on the show is a hot shot lawyer who graduated from Harvard Law, ends up with a bartender who cheats on her, and Charlotte, who is the epitome of WASP princess, ends up converting to Judism after she falls in love with her unattractive divorce lawyer.
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yea but the men having children at older ages are less fit to raise them, so its not a tremendous advantage, even though I agree it is still easier biologically for the older man than the woman.
imagine a 45 year old male fathering a child that he will raise as a teenager when he is in his 60’s. Thats the age he should be spoiling his grandchildren, not needing to serve discipline on his own children. FWIW, I’ve come across a few kids with serious “menace to society” problems with parents in their 50’s and 60’s unable to control them.
of course the worst is no father at all.
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I think for marriage the woman shouldn’t be older than 25. The man shouldn’t be older than 40.
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134
That was good, roissy. Well done. It truly does remind me of my slave days, though I prefer mutual worship…..next time. Any tips for me?
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I assume this blog is only meant to wind people up. I f so, it’s not funny because it’s not clever. Clever = funny- see poorpeoplelikepizza.com for an example.
Rather, the author of this post could be interchanged with some Pakastani or Afghani guy- very same opinions and lifestyles of which the author extolls.
It comes down to this: A human being either ages or he or she dies. Period.
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BTW roissy, as good a master as I’m sure you are; am looking for a God. Why would you lower yourself? ^_^
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It all comes down to this:
Human beings either age or they die. Period.
So, I’m not sure what this post is about then.
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Peter: there is an entire scene devoted to Miranda’s glorious natural pelt.
I was also surprised at the number of younger girls at the theatre. And I also counted 2 guys. One was gay and the other was seated behind me with his girlfriend, shuffling around uncomfortably and kicking the back of my chair.
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Unremarkable writing.
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I admit unashamedly that I watched SATC.
Why?
Because I am a misanthropic bastard and I took unfettered delight in watching their own stupidity, narcissism, materialism and refusal to accept any part of reality that did not map onto their wants and needs lead those women into disaster again, and again, and again. I reveled in their self-imposed suffering. Candace Bushnell is either the greatest double-agent in the history of the War Between the Sexes or a living avatar of Irony.
M
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@48 T.
For example I feel like vomiting every time I hear Tyra Banks brag about how she learned how to walk from drag queens. Think about that: women have become so clueless about natural femininity that they’ve resorted to using drag queens, who are a parody of femininity, as role models on how to be a more genuine woman.
Sage! WORD! I have puked, now that I have just been informed of this.
———————————————————-
@90 Gannon
At least in the good old days when you married you got a 17 year old virgin. Now you get a 32 year old bride with STDs and a child from another man to feed.
WORD!
———————————————————-
@95 Animus
mq
72 and 73 are very good points and posts from Sara. Funny you should say that! I thought 72 was mostly a dodge. I made a point that how men idealize women sexually and how women idealize men sexually, pointing out a disparity. Sara made a vague comment about complimentary natures. There’s nothing complimentary or fair about holding the vagina as sacred. If she wants to contend otherwise, I’d love to hear a coherent argument.
@96 sara
Sorry, I’m not much into arguing. I do however like to make points and engage in social intercourse. Both the vagina and penis are sacred and when we treat them as such the world will be transformed. Too vague? The long version is too esoteric for this group.
Yes, you are a sniper, you have a tendency to walk in, take aim, shoot and then stop listening.
We have a term for it on message boards: “Trolling”
———————————————————-
@134 roissy
bow to your master sara. yes, that’s right, you like it that way. you love submitting to me. good good. on your knees. look at it. kiss it. take it all in, you dirty little minx. all the way in… who’s your king and savior? who, sara? exactly. look up at me sara. i didn’t say you could close your eyes. up here. that’s better. you can’t get enough of me. i want to hear you beg for it. beg for more. more is on the way, sara, patience… it’s coming.
A beta would look at this and say:
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chutspa!!!
I look at it and merely grin.
———————————————————-
@138 sara
134
That was good, roissy. Well done. It truly does remind me of my slave days, though I prefer mutual worship…..next time. Any tips for me?
Good attitude sara, too bad you lost this humility:
140 sara
BTW roissy, as good a master as I’m sure you are; am looking for a God. Why would you lower yourself? ^_^
Except the God you are looking for is a is not a “he” but a She…
nascent lesbian much?
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sara 44–
“And why should pussy not be placed on a pedestal? In fact the pedestal should be higher. Here’s the big difference; women get addicted to a particular dick, where as men get addicted to pussy in general. (The younger and more masculine the man, the more the need for variety.) It’s very hard for a woman to cope with that reality. She wants a man to feel the same way about her particular pussy as she feels about his particular cock. Men think “Oh, she’s trying to trap me! Must escape.” Whereas the woman IS trapped already. Gee, I am so smart.”
The solution is very simple sara. It’s also worked for a long time.
First though you are only painting part of the picture. Although Roissy doesn’t emphasize it much and in fact downplays it a lot, men do fall in love with women. Even men with lots of other women options.
The trouble is, and what often/usually/bordering on always makes guys with options commitment phobic is not that they simply don’t care about one woman more than other, or wouldn’t like to let themselves go there. The trouble is they don’t want to give up tasting all other strange pussy forever.
The solution is to allow reasonable amounts of occasionally just sex, or close to just sex, male adultery. Of course if it’s allowed it isn’t really adultery. I’m not talking about him hitting the bars alone three nights a week all the time to try and score. I’m talking about once in a while.
It’s gonna make the marital sex much hotter too — at least if the wife hasn’t totally let herself go.
I think this actually happens more often than people think, but to say that in America their is concerted propaganda that it’s always inherantly demeaning and marriage destroying for the woman is to put it mildly.
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Sara 76–
“The risk is REAL, but how much attention are you going to give it?”
A huge amount.
You are a prime example in fact. Couldn’t get your alpha boyfriend to seriously commit, instead of coming in and out of the relationship and going off with other women.
Got your beta husband to commit plenty. You described the sex as pretty good (or maybe you said excellent) to start but then he became “too much of a workaholic” and limited himself to weekends. After a number of years, a fine house and a daughter, you got bored and decided he “needed a change for his own good”. So you felt perfectly justified in taking half the money all of which (worth talking about he made – that workaholic he), getting child support=alimony and alimony on top of that.
Completely outrageous. You should have had to sell the house and move into a smaller / less valuable one, gotten only as much of the assets as you earned proportionately (like if you lived together and slit up in any reasonable state that doesn’t have palimony) and no alimony.
Why the hell your husband should have to give you half his very hard earned money when you’re the one who left him for no compelling reason at all is completely beyond me and most men who start to think outside the feminist propaganda box.
You left because though females do tend to be monogamous in desires, it’s often something like up to four years of monogmous desire, and then a period of holding onto the relationship.
You’re out looking for an older alpha who will actually commit. Well you fantasize about younger ones too but really. (Oh you can get younger betas to screw you I’m sure, if you want that.)
Well whatever, but your poor husband shouldn’t have to subsidize it.
As for his daughter, what and how much he does should be entirely up to him, considering.
And what would have happened if you had had outrageous and open for all to see full on complete love affair(s) (full emotional involvement with lover and emotional estragement from him) while you were married? What would his recourse have been? Well he could have gotten a divorce. And exactly the same divorce theft reaming he did get.
And you have the timerity to belittle men’s fear of marriage in today’s feminist divorce laws America?
Since my divorce (no kids, mutual breakup -she lost interest in sex and became terrible in bed- but completely unfair divorce theft) I’ve lived happily with four different women for periods ranging from 1 to 4plus years. Far better than marriage.
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Kim Cattrall is more attractive than 99.9% of women her age. But given that her age is around 50, she still would have trouble competing with above-average 22-year-olds. Her character was mainly comic relief, however. No women are so predatory.
Charlotte and Miranda have realistic lives, and realistic expectations. The audience does tend to want them to succeed in their aspirations.
Carrie was unrealistic. A substantial number of alpha guys (in addition to Mr. Big) were after her in the show. Unlikely.
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My maternal grandparents had 12 children. The first was born when my grandfather was 32 and grandmother was 17.
The final one was born when my grandfather was 60 and grandmother was 45. No genetic defects in my youngest uncle, but both my grandparents were unusually healthy (my grandmother is still alive and kicking at 91 today, and my grandfather reached 90).
So male fertility is no problem until 45, and even then, only declines gently. Not as steeply as women.
It is also pretty inexpensive for a man to have a cryonbank store his sperm for 5 years.
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[…] matriarchy in all its silly manifestations — extravagant weddings, diamonds-nookie barter, pop culture propaganda, daddy government disease — is structured to handicap men. To cut them off at the knees. […]
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