A reader sent me this pic of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes and wondered if it showed that Cruise is secretly a nancyboy beta:
signaling the mothership.
The average man could not get away with this obsequious lean-in. If the average man did this with his girlfriend in public men looking on would cringe and women would “AWW” with pity as their vaginas snapped shut. Later that night, the girlfriend of the average man who leaned in would find an excuse to not have sex with him.
Despite the lean-in and the jumping up and down on couches professing his love for Katie, Tom Cruise is a super alpha. He can afford to display the saccharine romantic lovey-dovey behavior of the daydreaming beta because he has extra alpha to spare. It’s why rock stars can sing about the most maudlin treacle, emoting to their hearts’ content about writing love letters for that one special girl who dances in the meadows, without incurring a hit to their sexual market value. In fact, beta signaling by an alpha will actually raise the alpha’s status, helping him avoid the pitfall of being tagged as “arrogant” by potential admirers.
Therefore, if you are a natural super alpha, some acceptable beta things you can do (or are likely already doing) to handicap yourself and paradoxically increase your value are:
- Self-deprecating humor
Natural betas who self-deprecate too much are seen as weak and self-loathing. Natural alphas who self-deprecate are viewed as charming.
- Buying girls drinks
A beta who is generous too soon will seem approval-seeking. An alpha who is generous will seem like an alpha who is generous.
- PDA
Betas should really try hard to curb this urge. Alphas don’t have to worry about slobbering over their girlfriends once in a while, though they rarely do.
- Poetry and mash notes
The closer you are to a natural super alpha, the more you can live your life like a Hollywood movie. This means writing poetry for your girl won’t cost you attractiveness points. If you are a beta, you should never pour your heart out in poems for your girl, unless she has gotten older or fatter. In those cases, she will receive your poem with more gratitude.
- Crying
Dangerous! To be on the safe side, neither alphas nor betas should ever cry in front of their girlfriends, and preferably not in private either (it builds the right habits). But if the circumstances are favorable, and the alpha vibe is particularly strong, and his crying technique is solid, a man may shed a single tear. If all goes well, this act of vulnerability can make a girl’s heart explode with love. NOTE: If your pregnant tear has succeeded in eliciting sexually aroused emotions in your girl, DO NOT get greedy and attempt a second tear. The spell can be broken as quickly as it was cast, and you will go from sensitive strongman to weepy wuss instantly. Wait at least one year before unloading the powerful man tears again.
- Complimenting other men
A beta should refrain from excessive flattery of his betters. In fact, the beta should try not to compliment other men at all, even when the compliment is deserved and the other man’s social cachet is obvious. It’s just too risky. People will presume the complimenting beta is a lickspittle as opposed to assuming the complimenting alpha is someone who is secure enough in himself to offer kind words to other men.
- Lovemaking
Betas – don’t. You should stick to aggressive fucking and kinky sex. An alpha can mix it up with slow lovemaking without risking his status as the one “in charge” in the bedroom.
- Porn
Betas should try and conceal their extensive porn collection from their women, because otherwise they will be pegged as loser pervs. Alphas don’t need to be so secretive about their porn. She’ll probably blame herself for not being enough for him and work twice as hard during sex.
Postscript: Where beta signaling works for alphas, alpha signaling works for betas. Alpha signaling is the heart of game.
You mean my chicks with dicks porn collection makes me look bad?
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What makes Cruise look (a little) suspicious to me in this picture is that as much as he’s leaning in to his wife, he’s keeping his hips away from her. That’s the way people hug when they are trying to avoid displaying too much intimacy. But perhaps he’s just trying not to be too grossly sexual in public.
clio
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What a bunch of nonsense. I propose an alternative explanation.
Some people in this world are strong and free, and do what brings them pleasure. Such people will certainly at times engage in actions that violate Roissy’s straitjacket of permissible behavior. (For example, they will express love and affection to members of the opposite sex). They will do this because they want to, and they are free.
Other people are anxiety-ridden and very afraid of what others will think of them. They compulsively censor their behavior to avoid potentially signalling weakness to the others who frighten them. This is not a very pleasurable way to live — for one thing, it makes love impossible — but has occasional payoffs in terms of the ability to manipulate others.
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Looks like Tom has found his mommy.
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I think this is the best post I’ve seen. So many people say fake it til you make it and a lot of betas like myself pick up bad habits, because they see super alphas do it and all of the sudden think it’s ok.
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Only actors, gays, and men chopping onions have the luxury of shedding tears in full view of others. Perhaps the term beta has become the sobriquet for effeminate behavior but those categorizations aside, men should never be seen crying. There is a great scene in “Saving Private Ryan” when Captain Miller (Tom Hanks) diverts from his mission to neutralize a German machine gun position at an abandoned radar station but loses his medic in the process. He walks off to check the squad’s position relative to their objective in a crater but breaks down crying nervously looking to see that no one approaches to catch him in such a state. Brilliant scene most likely lost on a generation of pansies.
Some men have luxuries but that does not mean they should act on them.
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Self-deprecating humor is okay for any man to do, whether he’s an alpha or a beta, so long as it is perfectly clear that it is humor and only humor.
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So it appears that there’s a near-perfect overlap between the sorts of behaviors that distinguish a “super alpha” and those that mark the typical beta. Yes yes, I know all about signaling and whatnot, but pardon me if I take this is prima facie evidence that the alpha/beta distinction is virtually meaningless.
Actually, I suppose it’s not truly meaningless — there are men who seem to be able to get women no matter what they do (we’ve all seen them). But your post undermines one of the central theses of your writings, that behaviors matter greatly. While this is doubtless true on some level, the fact that two men can apparently behave the exact same way and have opposite effects on women reveals that behaviors, at least on the micro level, might be a lot less important than people suspect.
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One of my first posts was on rockstar androgyny:
http://manwhoisthursday.blogspot.com/2007/02/rockstar-androgyny.html
Quote: “I can wear lipstick, grow long hair, and wiggle my little hips in assless leather pants, and _still_ be more of a man than you.”
The handicap principal actually works both ways. If a thin, pretty 18 year old punk rock girl wears black combat boots, it just highlights her underlying femininity; that doesn’t mean the same boots won’t make an slightly overweight 6 look like a tank.
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The more roissy details this theories on alpha/beta conduct, the less value it seems to offer.
As general principles, there is something intuitively right about them. However, once he gets to things like “An alpha who is generous will seem like an alpha who is generous,” one really gets the sense that he’s run out of things to say. Like any hack prophet, he sounds great at the beginning but then begins to implode as time passes.
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I’d add a couple others: kindness and manners. Such traits in an alpha signa, “I’m so high status, I can afford to be kind.” The ideal of the knight, and later the gentleman, was someone who could deal out violence, but who was also cultured and refined.
Those betas who are betas because they are young stupid lower class males (not those betas who are betas because they are nerds) are for the most part crude assholes. They can’t afford to be anything else. When you’re fighting for scraps at the bottom, you can’t afford to have class.
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Why give advice to betas at all? What’s it gonna amount to?
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so dante was a beta or no?
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I’ll never understand the high regard PUAs have for Tom Cruise. He’s a mouthpiece for a crackpot religious cult, which is surely beta behavior — obedience to a set of ridiculous principles because of the fear of the unknown, regardless of the idiocy of its teachings. And even if you argue that he’s cannily using Scientiology as simply another avenue to power, why is he bothering? He’s already the biggest movie star in the world, or was until he lost the plot a couple of years back. More likely, it flatters his vanity to be among the “elite” Scientologists, which indicates a need for approval from others — not a very alpha attitude as you’re defining it.
His life seems to be managed down to the micrometer, which seems like a pretty joyless way to live — and when he deviates from the script, as in the couch-jumping and psychology-bashing fiascos, he just comes off like a creepy weirdo and lowers his status among the viewing public. This is your ubermensch? The guy is to be admired for his drive and success, but he’s clearly a nutbar.
As far as the rest goes, all it really does is show that it’s attitude and social status, not behavior, that makes a man alpha or beta. You could distribute a video of Russell Crowe weeping uncontrollably at the Sex and the City movie, and there would still be millions of women willing to sleep with him.
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#8 alex (and 10 wonka, by proxy):
uh, no.
these behaviors are considered signs of inferiority and supplication from a beta largely because they are DEFAULT beta behaviors. in the alpha case, though, it is the CONTRAST – the sharp divergence from the normal alpha modus operandi – that contains the critical mass of social uranium.
apparently, you don’t get that.
eeny meeny miney mo… let’s take “complimenting other men,” for instance. we all know the sort of reaction generated by constant, obsequious complimenting (beta). however, when someone known for brutal straight-shooting honesty (alpha) comes out with a compliment, cognitive dissonance sets in, and people immediately assign the best connotations to this unpredictable behavior. even if it IS an uncharateristic show of obsequium, that will be overlooked, if the alpha is convincing and congruent enough in his nonverbal communication.
#11 thursday
absolutely.
actions are like colors; they are perceived not objectively but relative to the surrounding picture.
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#14 reggie
um, reg’ my man, how are we to determine “attitude” other than through the lens of behavior?
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alex:
But your post undermines one of the central theses of your writings, that behaviors matter greatly. While this is doubtless true on some level, the fact that two men can apparently behave the exact same way and have opposite effects on women reveals that behaviors, at least on the micro level, might be a lot less important than people suspect.
there is only so much beta handicapping an alpha can employ before he actually loses his alpha status and turns into a beta. so behaviors do matter. what’s important to remember is that the handicapping principle only works with a certain subset of behaviors. alphas still need to act alpha in the critical areas like body language, frame control, active indifference, kino, and sexual escalation. a beta needs to work on getting his basic alpha, woman-attracting skills handled before he can graduate to a point where some beta bahavior won’t reflect badly on him.
the problem with betas is that they do these beta behaviors in a spirit of approval-seeking or self-doubt, which is something alphas don’t do.
reggie:
As far as the rest goes, all it really does is show that it’s attitude and social status, not behavior, that makes a man alpha or beta.
attitude is manifest in behavior.
You could distribute a video of Russell Crowe weeping uncontrollably at the Sex and the City movie, and there would still be millions of women willing to sleep with him.
fame is the most powerful aphrodisiac. super alphas like crowe are poor case studies since 99.9999999% of men will never reach that level.
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oh yeah, and roissy, you forgot one very important generalization:
the words “girls” and “drinks” in “buying girls drinks” can be replaced with “wives/girlfriends” and “jewelry/vacations/miscellaneous baubles”.
the wife/gf of a true alpha will never follow the greased slope from gratitude to expectation that so characterizes the once-charming wives/gfs of betas.
—
ironically, despite the universal validity of this principle, roissy has chosen a less-than-ideal example.
buying a drink is an introductory behavior, meaning that it cannot be endowed with the power of contrast mentioned above. therefore, buying a drink for a female stranger at the bar equals beta, no questions asked.
buying drinks for someone with whom you are already in some way involved, though, can be a valid example.
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#16 johnny five
um, reg’ my man, how are we to determine “attitude” other than through the lens of behavior?
I’m not sure, but being drunk probably helps.
I was commenting on Roissy’s claim that identical behaviors exhibited by two different men can mean completely different things depending on your alpha/beta-ness, but you make a good point in your earlier post about judging individual instances of behavior in the context of a person’s behavior in general. But what if you see a man pay somebody else a compliment in isolation and don’t really see them do anything else? I’d wager you’d still be able to estimate that man’s place on the alpha/beta continuum just in the way he expresses the behavior, which is what I would call “attitude”. (Then again, I suppose you could argue that “the way he expresses himself” is simply another set of behaviors.)
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Camille Paglia has remarked that except for “that poem” Dante was a loser. Which he pretty much was. A lot of great writers and poets now seem to me rather betaish. As I get more successful with women, I find that I have started to relate a lot less to worshipful attitude towards females that so many great poets (particularly favourites like Dante, Petrarch, Keats, Baudelaire) have put into their work. When something like the following happens, like when you’ve just left a 8+ girl’s appartment after making out with her and as you both are walking out, check over your shoulder and you notice she’s following along like a spaniel at your heels. Or when you’ve just finished a first date with another really pretty girl and you’re outside the coffeeshop and you haven’t yet asked to see her again, and she’s got that, “Please, please, please pick me” look in her eyes, there is just no way you can go back to looking at women in the same worshipful way. You don’t need to degrade them or do appalling things to them or start thinking of them all as stupid whores to have your view of beautiful women totaly revolutionized. Which actually makes me a bit sad, because in a strange way I have gotten such pleasure out of the woman as goddess myth and use these great poets have made of it.
BTW _writing_ poetry may make you appear beta, but getting poetry, or even just a poetry translation, published somewhere presigious, like say Oxford U. Press, will very much tend to up your status, especially if she’s an arty chick.
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I mean, you can master passive alpha stuff like “Indifference to Rejection”, and it still doesn’t mean you’ll be getting pink hand over fist. You still need to find-meet-attract-close.
Paul Janka is really the most interesting case, because his “world game” is minimal, so I’m REALLY interested in his “outer game” and “inner game.” How anyone can work around his low-status job and miserable apartment in the “Sex and the City”-est city in the world is a total mystery to me, so I’ll have to buy his book. I suspect that in fact he is naturally good-looking and simply playing a numbers game, which is what a lot of people in the community do. (And then claim to be game gurus who need your $.)
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two types of contrast:
(1) contrast with known behavior patterns, as i pointed out;
(2) contrast with other, simultaneous nonverbal markers, as pointed out by roissy #17.
one could still witness (2) in isolation – and that contrast could well be effective enough to produce the desired result – although the synergistic power of (1) and (2) is much, much greater than the sum of its parts.
i still, however, stand by my assertion that neither of these types of contrast can be evinced in a man’s buying a drink for a female stranger.
—
presumably along with quantitative all-stars like patrick bateman, i can’t help but chuckle at roissy’s figure of 99.9999999 percent, which, if taken literally, would place russell crowe among the top three alphas in the entire world.
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Something else that super-Alphas often do to make themselves appear even more Alpha: adopt feminism or other forms of wussy left-wing politics.
Two words: Bill Clinton.
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Also the more alpha you are the more gay friendly you can be.
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Reggie, the reason most “PUAs” think Tom Cruise is great is that Style told them so and most “PUAs” are hero worshiping sycophants who are too insecure to form their own opinions. (Not to mention being too clueless to understand that Style is a writer who lives off turning celebrities into plot devices.)
Oh and I’ve known some local rock stars who do the make up thing and sing about dying for a girl. They’re as far from “alpha” as you can get (the words probably do come from their soul), but being on national TV beats *everything*.
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If you self deprecate, you should smile a little when/after doing it or we will think you’re a depressed person in hiding!
If you compliment other men, I guess you would always do it in a way that is more like a critique rather than a flat out “Oh mah gawd!” squeal. That way, we know you actually notice the world around you and aren’t afraid to analyze it. That doesn’t mean you should split too many hairs though.
As for the crying, it’s okay to cry sometimes when really bad things happen after I know you better. If you cry easily when I’m not close to you yet, it just makes things awkward. Also, I will think you are weak because even girls generally know not to cry in the open about stupid things. Or maybe that’s just an Asian thing…
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i like writing poetry to capture the more ephemeral aspects of the feminine, rather than immortalizing some supposed goddess. i liked writing poems for girls in the past too, they didn’t seem to mind. i don’t see the difference between it and playing them guitar, if you keep the mushiness to a minimum.
thursday is stricken with gameitis, a strange disorder whereby one analyses all previous parts of ones life, and all one has ever read, in light of this new information, with all the terrible zeal of the newly converted. i’m in the midst of it myself. any seasoned players out there? does it go away? reading the ‘bell curve’ messed up my view on the world for a while, but i got over it and returned to normality, and no longer analyse everyone in terms of what it said. does the same happen with game? is there a point atop the hill when you’ve integrated the knowledge and you can reenter the real world?
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the reason most “PUAs” think Tom Cruise is great is that Style told them so and most “PUAs” are hero worshiping sycophants who are too insecure to form their own opinions.
the average american male watches football on tv and sits on the couch drinking beer as his belly grows. tom cruise is a movie star. ergo, tom cruise, in relation to the average american male, is a super alpha. the fact that tom cruise is also weird and follows a wacko cult is no hindrance to his super alpha status, except perhaps at the very extremes (say, his dating opportunities with equally super alpha hollywood women).
if you don’t think cruise is an alpha you are setting the bar for alphaness impossibly and ridiculously high.
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By the way composing poetry is much better and more satisfactory for the male brain than reading it. I used to read poetry with my long, drawn out breakfasts, but now I write it, and feel a much greater sense of accomplishment. I’m sure that’s how Thursday felt translating. As men, we should CREATE more than CONSUME. Injesting art is much less satisfying than creating it. For the interested, I cannot recommend this book enough.
and jaakkeli, doesn’t Cruise like, own companies and shit? Cruise-Wagner something or other. He also, seriously, doesn’t take shit, and has a prickly temperament, demonstrated in many an interview, that one regularly sees in Alphas.
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The observations are good, but they don’t reflect the Handicap Principle. A handicap, in that sense, is something that causes a fitness loss no matter who uses it — the idea is that only those with lots of fitness to spare can use it and still get by.
But most of these examples are “amplifiers” — they don’t increase or decrease fitness per se, they just make your underlying value easier to perceive. Think of it as “good” mates scoring positively, “bad” scoring negatively, and the amplifier just multiplies your value by, say, 5. So +1 becomes +5, while -1 becomes -5.
The practical advice is the same, though: high-quality people should use the amplifier, while low-quality people should not, if it’s up to personal choice.
To add an example: dancing to dance music. If you’re insecure, dancing where everyone can see you will heighten your awkwardness, and all will see this. If you’re secure, it makes you look even more bold.
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“:if you don’t think cruise is an alpha you are setting the bar for alphaness impossibly and ridiculously high.”
so its all in the mind?
anyway, while alpha cannnot be thot, what can beta’s do (concrete steps) to move closer to alphaness. even if it were low alpha?
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Johnny Five, your points are all sound but this talk still smacks of the tautological: an alpha is whatever an alpha does. But that’s actually informative if you consider that alphas do whatever the fuck they feel like doing, whenever they want, without giving a passing thought to the “alphaness” or “betaness” of their actions. Of course therein lies the contradiction: by striving to be an “alpha,” a man ensures that he’s not one and never will be. Sites like these, and “game” in general, are fundementally for betas, by betas. Would a true alpha have any use for “game,” construed as such? Would they even recognize the terms “alpha” and “beta”? I doubt it.
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I did a search on the word “should” and got 15 hits, 7 of which were roissy’s. Roissy, your superego is on overdrive.
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OK, so Tom Cruise is rich and famous. So? Is there something more? None of us would need game, personality, alphaness or sanity if we were that famous. We could be total nancy boys and still score. Hey, all the respect for the drive to get there, but is there something else?
I bet that if you put “Tom Cruise AMOG” in Google you’d find lots of overly eager PUAs declaring jumping on a couch an awesome new form of AMOGing but that if you put “Clint Eastwood AMOG” or “Bruce Willis AMOG” or whatever to Google, there would be hardly any hits. Why? Style told them about Tom Cruise, but forming their own opinions would be too scary.
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sigh.. jaakkeli, stick to gnxp would you? we get it, you read the game, all wannabe gamers are sheep following our Dear Leader Neil Strauss.
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Tom Cruise isn’t merely an alpha – he’s a Thetan 7.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural_abilities_in_Scientology_doctrine#Theta_perceptics
Seriously, this is a good example of why labeling people as being simply alpha-versus-beta can be problematic. He took one of the hotter young chicks in Hollywood and turned her into a creepy subservient drone – that’s no doubt an uber-alpha outcome. Just the same, what aspect of his behavior would you ever want to copy? I think he’s more a shining example of the kind of fantasy life you can indulge once you save up your first couple hundred million dollars.
I’m not sure he’s even a good example for all the Roissy readers out there with nine-figure net worths though – his interest in Katie seems less sexual than messianic. Alpha? Sure, but I don’t really care.
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alex:
But that’s actually informative if you consider that alphas do whatever the fuck they feel like doing, whenever they want, without giving a passing thought to the “alphaness” or “betaness” of their actions.
it’s a dearly-held trope that alphas do whatever the fuck they feel like doing. but in fact they don’t. if you observe naturals in the field you’ll see their behaviors are pretty consistent and replicable. here is a partial list of things natural alphas rarely do:
lean in when talking to a girl
buy drinks for random girls they don’t know
look uncomfortable in their bodies
stand alone in the corner
have trouble maintaining eye contact
never touch a girl
etc.
does it matter that natural alphas are probably mostly unaware of the alpha things they do? not really, at least not for the purpose of learning from their successful behaviors. sure, if you ask him an alpha will tell you “i just do whatever the fuck i feel like doing”, but that is only because his instinctively limited scope of “doing whatever the fuck” precludes any beta behavior. alphas are NOT doing a lot of things, or they would soon enough find themselves not so alpha anymore.
Of course therein lies the contradiction: by striving to be an “alpha,” a man ensures that he’s not one and never will be.
keep in mind that many “naturals” learned how to be an alpha at a very young age, on the playground and in the junior high hallways and back seats of cars, if not as early as in their mothers’ wombs, and so their striving to achieve alpha status is behind them. start the training early enough and the right behaviors become second nature.
for many betas who drew the short status straw in the crucible of those early formative years, they never internalized the instincts to be an alpha. the smart and gutsy ones have learned to observe, synthesize (mystery method), and practice in the field. the beta’s “striving” is thus an artifact of his later start in life, coupled with the need to jettison a load of bad self-defeating habits built up over the years.
the only way a beta can ensure that he will never be an alpha is to refuse to better himself.
Would a true alpha have any use for “game,” construed as such?
the true alpha is soaking in game.
Would they even recognize the terms “alpha” and “beta”?
sure. but in terms he’s more familiar with. like, oh, “tough guy” and “pussy”.
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[…] as DHV funny and true Handicap Principle Roissy in DC Roissy generally is worth reading. He exaggerates his points to make them clearer and more […]
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35, actually, that’s the reason why I like the blog: this has to be the first place with good PUA discussion since alt.seduction.fast was ruined (by you know who) that *isn’t* corrupted by excessive hero worshiping. In my secret pet theory roissy deletes admiring comments from the sycophants who normally infest these sites to leave only the infernal atmosphere.
(Hmm, that might sort of beg the question of what I was ranting about earlier. Errrr… dunno. Gotta go
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Lovemaking
Betas – don’t. You should stick to aggressive fucking and kinky sex. An alpha can mix it up with slow lovemaking without risking his status as the one “in charge” in the bedroom
:no:
Doing the above may cause a woman to experience to experience a lot of pain. Roissy is out of control for what he wrote on this topic. If you want to please a woman and have her wrapped around your finger, learn to do the licky licky very well.Not many men can and those who have this skill clean up with women. Trust me, a woman will stick to you like crazy glue
http://sandrarose.com/2008/05/29/fan-mail-too-much-air-in-your-uterus/
Do it Roissy’s way and you will cause the above^^^^^^
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You can’t really use Tom Cruise as an Alpha example any more. Back when he was wheelie-ing his GPZ 900R on his way to a 4G negative dive with a MiG-28, yeah, ok, hard down Alpha. But now? Calling him a space cadet isn’t even ironic. Alpha? Beta? I’m pretty sure he calls himself a Theta these days. Wherever he was, he’s basically in the same boat (plane?) as Michael Jackson – way too fucking weird to interact with the rest of humanity. That’s why they both picked up hot* trophy wives to make them seem sane, just to have them impregnated by strangers.
If you’re going to use celebrities as Alpha examples, go for someone like Dennis Quaid.
* whatsername Presley is not in fact at all hot.
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#17 roissy
super alphas like crowe are poor case studies since 99.9999999% of men will never reach that level.
Well, sure, but that makes your use of Tom Cruise as an example an equally poor case. It’s fundamentally irrelevant whether Cruise (or Crowe) is an alpha or a beta; the salient point is that they’re world fucking famous, which trumps the game of the smoothest regular-guy player.
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Eurosabra said:I suspect that in fact he is naturally good-looking and simply playing a numbers game, which is what a lot of people in the community do. (And then claim to be game gurus who need your $.)
I glad you noticed the bolded part Eurosabra. Contrary to what some men want to believe, male beauty matter a great deal to women. Janka is extraordinarily good-looking, I saw him on Tyra and the Dr. Phil show. His looks alone will cause most women to take a second. He has look of the Italian and Greek models who dominate harlequin romance novel covers. If I am not mistaken Janka is Indian.
On top of his looks, Janka gives off very strong energy and has a powerful presence. The guy radiates both a strong douche and powerful lover energy. When you add his “aura” to his looks, some women will find themselves drawn to him. Even those who do not go for douche bags will break down for Janka because of his powerful lover energy and amazing looks.
Trust me guys, I am a woman, so I understand in a way that very few men are able to. Men like Janka will always draw a large pool of women.
P.S. Some women also like the idea of taming a dog.
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If you’re going to use celebrities as Alpha examples, go for someone like Dennis Quaid.
Even with his manorexia?
I will say Dennis Quaid’s body is beyond hott and he gives plenty of 20 year old a run for their money.
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[…] Original post by Mama Lisa’s World – Lisa’s Blog […]
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some things to know about NY. there is a lot of what i call “fun fucking” in this city, where women fuck just for fun. this is where low-status guys with game thrive. i have tons of friends that are sporadically employed actors, bartenders, waiters, baristas, or artists who just swim in hot women. first, their low-status jobs in a way symbolize rebellion and nonconformity in the minds of a lot of hot women, it confers “bad boy” status when accompanied with the right attitude. remember that the higher status the woman has, the less you need to do to actually be a bad boy. to a hoodrat chick, you need prison time to be considered a bad boy. but to some yuppie chicks and trust fund brats, the standards are way lower and working at an upstart fly-by-night internet company or flaky service job can be enough to confer bad boy status. to some jewesses for example, just not going to an ivy league school and/or not being jewish makes you a bad boy.
the irony is that many of the guys with high-status, unsexy jobs i know like big finance and white-shoe law and medicine actually get the least sex out of all my friends. first, they work all the time. second, they worked so hard their whole lives to win the rat race that they never, ever developed game. third, women are less likely to have sex with them right away because (a) they are easy to resist sexually since they have no game and aren’t alpha enough to push a chick’s hot buttons and make her lose control and (b) because these guys are perfect beta providers they get seen as an investment rather than a good time or guilty pleasure, so the woman will put off sex as long as possible to present herself as nonslutty marriage material to the guy. She may fuck the hot alpha bartender with game the first night she meets him because he has nothing long-term to offer, he’s a guilty pleasure that turns her on, but she’ll make the beta lawyer buy her dinners and kiss her ass for three months before he gets to even sniff her crotch because he’s more of an investment that is easy to sexually resist because he’s so bland and devoid of game. In NY, I find the high status males may get the most marriage interest, but hardly the most sex. Also, they’re often nerds, which helped them get high status in the first place but doesn’t really help with getting women turned on.
As far as Janka’s apartment goes, it’s shitty, but I heard it’s Manhattan. Manhattan is so fetishized in NYC by so many people it’s not even funny. I know people who have been so priced out of good Manhattan apartments that to remain in Manhattan they have to live in rat-infested shoeboxes. With roommates. They can live in a much bigger, nicer apartment in a nice neighborhood in Queens or Brooklyn only 20-35 mins away without roommates and they fight it tooth and nail. They refuse to even consider moving out of Manhattan, no matter how shitty their living conditions get. You’d be surprised how much more action a guy can get with a shitty Manhattan apartment than a nice Brooklyn or Queens one. Likewise, you’d be surprised how much better a low-status alpha will do with women in NY over a high status beta.
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because these guys are perfect beta providers they get seen as an investment rather than a good time or guilty pleasure, so the woman will put off sex as long as possible to present herself as nonslutty marriage material to the guy.
um, yeah.
the best situation is to be making money hand over fist, but to keep that fact a secret among you, your accountant, and the IRS. if this janka guy has any brains, that’s exactly what he’s doing; reputable private tutors in NYC can easily fetch upwards of $150 per hour.
in any city with a population over 1 million, KNOWN wealth is actually a liability to a guy running game, for two reasons:
1) as t. outlined above, women – especially highly desirable women – will make him wait;
2) most posters here don’t think about this one, but his real trouble will be in ridding himself of women, not in attracting them; he will have to become a virtual houdini to escape the greed of his suitorettes. women will think nothing of civil suits based on trumped-up accusations of sexual harassment, intimate violence, etc., in hopes of wringing a settlement out of the guy. it happens.
if a guy is long on game and short on wealth – or, even better, long on game and short on perceptible wealth – he will have neither a problem catching nor a problem releasing.
public service announcement to males under 40 reading this blog: the correlation between wealth/job status (not social status) and no-strings pussy, if such a correlation exists at all, is negative.
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I’m a few generations older than T., but I’ll second his description of what life’s like in NYC. Loads of adventurous girls willing to take many a break from their pursuit of marrying up for some dallying with badboys, artists, wannabes, and even guys who are just reasonably interesting. A lot of those hard-working upwardly mobile types who the girls will wind up marrying are awfully boring, or maybe just hyper-busy.
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Mq, I don’t agree. This isn’t a straight-jacket code of conduct, it’s a system to remember for men whose behavioral techniques (or lack thereof) aren’t producing the desired results. Sure, the “beta” group can be free–we are human beings, after all; there isn’t anyone around to physically restraing us from acting the way we want to. But the problem is, many “betas” ARE acting freely; and that’s why they are baffled when women don’t respond the way they hope.
Women have to control themselves as well; there are moments in every woman’s life, regardless of her level of self confidence or market value, when she is tempted to follow her instincts and call a few extra times or lay all her cards out otherwise. Though it feels good to pick the scab, it isn’t always a good idea. When you’re in any kind of relationship or partnership with someone–whether it be romantic, professional or whatever–there needs to be a level of self control and manipulation applied; it’s not nonsense, it’s how the world works.
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How naturals are eventually overtaken by people who study game:
http://thepickupsite.com/inner-game/the-game-in-a-nutshell/
hilarious, and insightful
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T, holy shit! You just described NY to a goddamn T. You are therefore the first aptly named commenter in the history of blogs. Incredibly accurate description of women in NY but on the serious tip you reminded me of the time I told a chick I was a back-up acrobat on cirque du soleil. I don’t think I’ve ever lied so much about what I did for a living than while living in this city.
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“Dangerous! To be on the safe side, neither alphas nor betas should ever cry in front of their girlfriends”
I disagree. Have seen men tear up at touching movies, or when experiencing a personal trauma of some sort. It’s no big deal. Suppressing tears is perverse within reason of course. Women who are as a rule turned off by tears from a man are cold hearted bitches and should be avoided. There is nothing safe about suppressing a very natural urge to cry occasionally. Crying is a universal expression of overwhelming emotion; positive or negative, it’s a healthy release. Am not talking about being a “cry baby”.
“Wait at least one year before unloading the powerful man tears again.”
LOL
“An alpha can mix it up with slow lovemaking without risking his status as the one “in charge” in the bedroom.”
Is that right?
“Alphas don’t need to be so secretive about their porn. She’ll probably blame herself for not being enough for him and work twice as hard during sex.”
Yeah, sure, roissy. For me, porn is a deal breaker. Do not date men who are into porn and hope I never unwittingly do. Porn=sexual repression, and I doubt you (roissy) can understand what true sexual repression means. You could have sex 4 times a day and be sexually repressed. Read Sex Matters for details or don’t bother responding.
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^ The young stud I was telling you about? Porn = no deal.
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this blog is hilarious, love the crying segment.
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> Porn=sexual repression, and I doubt you (roissy) can understand what true sexual repression means.
Maybe. I however posit it’s mostly because the chick is not into the (same?) kinky stuff as the guy.
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Tom Cruise, Tom Schmooze. After catching an earful of John Cusack’s punditing on cable news this morning, I’m up for a Roissy smackdown of cinema’s hero of superbetatude.
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=102459580&MyToken=535ea505-dc4a-49fb-b15a-99df2635b248
My girlfriends and I have hypothesized among ourselves that “inner Cusack” is street slang for an undescended testicle.
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55 nupnup
“I however posit it’s mostly because the chick is not into the (same?) kinky stuff as the guy.”
Negative, but nice try. Really it’s difficult to explain and unless you’re more genuinely intelligent than roissy, you won’t get it either.
Look at Sex Matters:
http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Matters-Osho/dp/0312316305/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213291647&sr=1-2
Real intelligence comes from the brain and heart. Roissy is mostly brain.
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> Roissy is mostly brain.
So am I. I have repeatedly been characterized as ice cold (not that I care much about that label [1]).
However, musing why a guy watches porn seems somewhat besides the point, the spelled out reasons for it may be numerous enough but in the end it’s probably lack of sexual satisfaction. Be it because of lacking access to women like with DA or what I mentioned above.
Think about it, if the guy was completely satisfied, why would he even bother with porn? He would simply not have the energy left to do so.
[1] Just that we’re clear: I consider myself to be a beta (even though my gf is universally considered to be pretty hot) soon to be working in a high status, very alpha job.
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40 Chic Noir
I looked at your link about post coital cramping, think it’s a little known fact that women orgasm most easily when their legs are straight, allowing more contact with the clitoris. Being hugely spread eagle doesn’t lend itself to orgasm for women, at least not from my experience.
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58 nupnup
“However, musing why a guy watches porn seems somewhat besides the point,”
The link, nupnup…the link. Go there, else you have no clue what I am talking about.
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To be honest I fail to see the connection (just tried again, still the same). Of course sex matters to us all.
More to some, less to others, perhaps not at all to a small group.
Just because some guy, writing books under a pseudonym no less, claims that repressed sex leads to porn does not at all support the claim. Frankly, it seems to be moralist more than anything else. Saying repressed sexuality leads to porn is just one step away from “only pervs watch porn”.
Now you may or may not believe that – perversity is obviously in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I do not believe it.
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Interesting. In Los Angeles, the status game is often a “declining returns” proposition because there will always be someone with more cash, more connections, a better SUV, etc. Logistics are a nightmare as well. The thing is, resilience in the face of rejection is not a cure-all, nor is becoming a big fish in a small pond a cure-all. Lots of good-looking lawyers think they’re hot stuff game-wise because they can get a 6 or 7 on JDate once a month. There are levels of dominance that are simply unbelievable (www.sexhobbyist.com, for example) and getting there seems simply unbelievable as well.
In terms of actually implementing game, I’m afraid that a lot of readers here are “drop-outs” like DA, or otherwise non-participants. Roissy is not actually the best place to start to build morale.
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A lot of those hard-working upwardly mobile types who the girls will wind up marrying are awfully boring, or maybe just hyper-busy.
I suspect that these men are boring because they’re hyper-busy. The money is a essentially a cover-up for an interesting personality as a tool of meeting women. Hence some of the complaints of men like myself who both lack money or the foundations to create an interesting personality.
BTW, T has two interesting points. People would rather live in shoeboxes in Manhattan or inner areas of Brooklyn than to live in locations deeper in the outer boros. I wonder what they’d think of somebody like me who lives at home with mommy and daddy in an area that requires a 50 minute LIRR train ride, or that I would rather own a condo in Queens than pay mega dollars for an apartment no larger than a crate…
Also, my cousin can apparently game women by presenting himself as a handsome Caribbean heartthrob. It certainly explains how he managed to get JAPs to date him long-term without him doing any real high-end work. OTOH, one of the downsides was that one of his JAP g/fs tried to trap him with a pregnancy…
musing why a guy watches porn seems somewhat besides the point, the spelled out reasons for it may be numerous enough but in the end it’s probably lack of sexual satisfaction.
Or in some cases, there are potential and accessible sex partners, but they’re so low ranking and ugly, that porn is simply the best choice. In some cases, a lack of sexual satisfaction leads to over use of porn which eventually leads to sex organs that are depleted by the time remotely attractive people enter one’s sphere…
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The money is a essentially a cover-up for an interesting personality as a tool of meeting women.
One thing I’m not sure people here appreciate: some men like money because Tao tastes better than McDonalds and the view is better at the Ocean Club than the Beach Tower.
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61 nupnup
“Frankly, it seems to be moralist more than anything else. Saying repressed sexuality leads to porn is just one step away from “only pervs watch porn”.”
You win. I give up. ^_^
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@Sara coment 59- I will use your suggestion the next time I have fun and get back to you.
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“Real intelligence comes from the brain and heart. Roissy is mostly brain.”
Nope. Real intelligence comes from the Y chromosome.
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Reggie: Some of the PUA-adoration of Tom Cruise comes from a generally glowing description from The Holy Mainstreamer of Game, Neil Strauss. At some point, he even counters on the couch jumping, saying that the guy is just super-alpha-as-balls.
The discussion raises some interesting ideas. I’ve been watching this show, The Tudors, about Henry VIII. Obviously, the King is a super-alpha. But think about it this way: if you’ve had people always obeying you and giving you whatever you want? This breeds a mentality. I tend to lean on the nurture side of the argument on this one. You take any guy and drop him into a lifestyle of fame, riches and having the means to go where you want and do what you want, that guy is going to (probably) become a super-alpha. Stephane from Ideagasms, one mental exercise he suggests is projecting yourself into the part of a king. Imagine that at a bar or a party or whatever, that you are a king. How would you act and behave differently?
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See DA, the whole “dropout” thing.
At http://www.realadultsex.com, Figleaf (the blogger) tried to separate “worthiness” (economic performance tout court) from “attractiveness”, on the grounds that desire was actually free from total dependence on social status, economic success, dominance etc-cues. What seems to be crucial is 1)Psyching oneself out and 2)Display of low-social-status “tics” like “leaning in”, buying drinks, supplication. It is very difficult for such ingrained behaviors to be shed, the more so when you get less practice. Moreover, the tics seem to cancel a resume, in the sense that economic success in the present beats success on paper in the past. Roissy is right that dominance and beauty rule, but the problem is that the rest of us reach a dead-end with our pathologies. I’ve been nailing ugly chicks at a fairly good rate, while DA has been indulging in porn (as I used to). I find myself (like him) unable to respond to a middling-to-below-average woman in the flesh, due to the way my economic non-performance and failure with Hot Babes has been pathologized in my mind–from within this mindset there is literally NO POINT in walking outside, except to buy food, and nothing to do but pursue the diploma that will put the stamp on my previous qualifications worth 15-20K a year and raise me into the 30-40K zone, at which point the LA 6s (DC 7s & 8s), totally average women who work as secretaries, might become interested at a rate of 1 in 100 instead of 1 in 500. And I HAVE an interesting personality, am funny, well-read and well-traveled. My intangibles are not in doubt.
“Magically transform yourself” seems a bit much, and the radically transformative technologies for working on your personality take time.
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You take any guy and drop him into a lifestyle of fame, riches and having the means to go where you want and do what you want, that guy is going to (probably) become a super-alpha
Animus
I agree.
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39 Eurosabra
“Roissy is right that dominance and beauty rule, but the problem is that the rest of us reach a dead-end with our pathologies.”
“Dominance” and “beauty” rule. Oh really. Look around at the beautiful dominant people and tell me how happy they really are and I don’t mean on the outside. You usually don’t find out unless their famous and going through divorce/child custody hell, AIDS, bankruptcy, plastic surgery malpractice, rehab, or some other disaster. The so-called beautiful and dominant are no more immune to life in hell than any of us. Like roissy, you watch too much TV.
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71 Sara
Of course they’re not a cure-all.
That is a non-sequitur. You make me laugh. 🙂
Beauty and dominance make men and women sexually popular, respectively, that is all. (Though beautiful women are often socially dominant as a result.) That is neither the be-all and end-all of human effort, (except in an evolutionary sense, but culture counts for much among us), nor necessarily a laudable or self-improving goal. But for those of us in the sexual equivalent of a sensory deprivation chamber, it is a desirable goal, and seeing things clearly is key. In fact, the examples you cite lead me to think that cultivating compassion for those blessed by nature and gifted with popularity, as well as those cursed by and bereft of the same, is an essential part of being a full human being. So your observations, while true, do not help DA and me escape our self-inflicted pathologies. I tend to regard it as an issue of “cause and effect” rather than “inherent human value”, but of course Roissy will naturally want to retain a value-judgement that privileges him. 🙂
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72 Eurosabra
“So your observations, while true, do not help DA and me escape our self-inflicted pathologies. ”
So what would help?
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roissy, you fuckin beast..keep it up…keep on showin em where you come from!! love the posts!
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Still working on that one. This is still the best forum I’ve found for meta-game, or hashing out the negatives of the “battle of the sexes” as it exists, even with Roissy’s triumphalism. The trick is finding some positive precepts, and Roissy’s latest on signaling is a somewhat greater contribution than the usual “Be Alpha” with the chattering classes’ “What is Alpha?” followup found on various PUA blogs.
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75 Euro
“Roissy’s latest on signaling is a somewhat greater contribution than the usual “Be Alpha” with the chattering classes’ “What is Alpha?” followup found on various PUA blogs.”
Well, you know, that sounds fantastic though I have no idea in hell what you mean by all that and further do not care. I guess your jewels of wisdom sound like pure bullshit and mine come off as bullshit to the majority of posters here. One day soon I hope it will prove to be entirely fruitless to even try. ^_^
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@76 Sara
“I guess your jewels of wisdom sound like pure bullshit and mine come off as bullshit to the majority of posters here. One day soon I hope it will prove to be entirely fruitless to even try. ^_^”
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but caveat empater
But what really has my twizzle wizzled, is why an intelligent girl such as yourself, frequents this den of ill repute? Aren’t ya a feminist? if So what would your peers think of you?
And thats not a Neg to make you try to qualify. IMHO the PUA machinations has always made me giggle, because I cant understand why its so hard for some of us males to become men or some fair measure of.
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Sara: Those who have ears will hear.
SovAmMale: Some of us were raised by our mothers, and attended schools where feminist teachers shamed us for masculine desire for women, more intensely as the years passed, culminating in the early 90s university, where it was only politically correct for Bill Clinton for get a blowjob, half the girls were Lesbians Until Graduation, and 17 would get you 3 to 5, i.e. statutory.
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77 S.A.M.
Your “twizzle wizzled”? Well that made me giggle. Yes, why oh why am I here? I stumbled across this blog of ill repute ages ago when I needed a place to vent my spleen over the abuses I experienced at the hands of a supreme manipulator, who turned out to be nothing more than an insecure asshole. BUT I have learnt my lesson well and am free at last. I am only here as the a diversion, but am feeling less and less inclined to be diverted.
I AM not a feminist. Oh God, no. They are the enemies of femininity and feminine causes. Still, good does come from evil and everything else, so I don’t worry none about it.
My peers? Now, who would my peers be? Let me put it this way, my peers (generation wise) are way too old for me. They love the past; the good old days. To me, five minutes ago is dead. Am much more modern and forward thinking.
78 Euro
“Some of us were raised by our mothers, and attended schools where feminist teachers shamed us for masculine desire for women, more intensely as the years passed”
Well most schools are about schooling and not education. They glorify the idiots and ignore the real contributors to human kind. “Education” is politics by and large. Both my parents are feminists so I sympathize. They wanted me to be a lesbian! I kid you not. I tried it…3 times. Boring, very boring.
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attended schools where feminist teachers shamed us for masculine desire for women
Maybe my experiences are different since I went to Catholic School for K-12, but I never noticed any overarching evil feminist conspiracy that shamed masculine desire for women. My nephew attends public school, and I haven’t noticed anything like it in his schooling.
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80 DA
Do you still believe your Catholic upbringing did not screw you up?
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Do you still believe your Catholic upbringing did not screw you up?
I think it has affected me considerably, but I don’t think that it screwed me up. There are plenty of functioning Catholics out there who aren’t screwed up.
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Tom Cruise an Alpha Male? Come on guys … Cruise is a joke. Late night and morning drive time comedians make jokes about Cruise being gay. People LAUGH at him. Heck Jerry O’Connell made a YouTube classic parodying Cruise, including his maniacal laughter.
Once Jerry O’Connell laughs at you (and it gets laughs) then, no you are not an Alpha.
Here are some Alpha males who blow Roissy’s patterns out of the water: Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch, Karl Rove, Larry David, Brett Farve, and Joe Montana.
What is the significance here? Achievement trumps, solidly and completely, any appearance or behavior. They make them NOT matter. Larry David could behave as ridiculous as he likes, and still have women falling all over him, despite being older, balding, and his real life wife cheating on him. HE’s Larry David. Worth gazillions, has his own TV show, a comedy legend (if I were Laurie David, I’d be waiting for the inevitable biting bits on Curb Your Enthusiasm that make me look like Patsy and Edina on Ab Fab). I’ve seen Brett Farve break down and cry openly on TV about how much he needs/loves his wife (“she knew and loved me before I was Brett Farve”) and you don’t get much more Alpha than Favre. Heck he cried when he retired. He’s a living legend and has a superbowl ring. That pretty much trumps everything. Montana is fairly boring and low-key in person. He’s still Joe Montana.
Cusak? I hate that guy. Most guys do. Now John Cryer, that’s my man. He may not be Charlie Sheen, but that’s a good thing. Sheen is sad and beset by demons, all the women in his life won’t make him any happier and that’s been his pattern for decades. Cryer is a happy professional who has never lacked for work and is married with kids. Who actually remembers Molly Ringwald, who fled to France long ago and barely worked out of her teens? [Pretty in Pink reference.]
Frankly, I’d rather be John Cryer. He seems happy and stable and admired.
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I like you Sara.
IM much?
Liberty.equality@yahoo.com
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87 DA
“There are plenty of functioning Catholics out there who aren’t screwed up.”
I think anything that seeks to instill guilt in you is a cancer eating insidiously away at your whole life. Catholic and Jewish guilt are world famous. Often Jews and Italians are hard to tell apart. Well I’m sure you’re right about the functioning part, but not about the aren’t screwed up type. In this society being screwed up means you fit in beautifully.
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84 S.A.M.
I don’t want to fizzle your wizzle but would imagine there is a considerable age difference between us. Though I’m past 40 (have never given my actual age here. Hehe.) I can tell you this; men much much younger are hitting on me. Just putting it out there, as I know time is valuable to us all. One thing we have in common-“the PUA machinations has always made me giggle” too.
Have IMd very little and only when I had to for work. Am not sure how hack proof it is, but I emailed my Mac man to ask about it. Will let you know and thanks for the offer.
Now back to our regularly scheduled post; Tom Cruise? He’s yucky.
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This post is just a display of your homo-erotic crush on Tom Cruise. Pure and Simple. Moving on, beotches.
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I think anything that seeks to instill guilt in you is a cancer eating insidiously away at your whole life.
People without guilt are called sociopaths.
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sara:
“I don’t want to fizzle your wizzle but would imagine there is a considerable age difference between us. Though I’m past 40 (have never given my actual age here. Hehe.) I can tell you this; men much much younger are hitting on me. Just putting it out there, as I know time is valuable to us all. One thing we have in common-”the PUA machinations has always made me giggle” too. ”
Men will hit on anything. Studies show this. Men have little compunction about hitting on any woman from any race. I assume they’ll hit on 40+ yo chicks who show an interest in them. Women have a lot more to lose than men do when it comes to sex- pregnancy and it’s easier for a woman to catch HIV from sex than men…
Just because men will hit on any woman doesn’t mean they don’t have extremely discriminating palates when it comes to who they’ll want to settle down and procreate with, which entails the man spending more time and resources long term for that particulalr woman.
If you’re telling me that rich men are willing to do this for you, great. If you’re telling me that most rich men are going to do this for most 40+ yo chicks, I’d tell you you’re insane.
Look at actual marriage rates (including interracial marraige rates) and who the top porn stars are, to see who the IDEAL woman is for most men in this country. Probably a nubile, teenage to early twenty year old white chick- probably blond.
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88 PA
“People without guilt are called sociopaths.”
Guilt is not goodness. There is a big difference between knowing what’s good for you and feeling guilty when doing something “bad”. Sociopaths are self destructive.
89 crackpot
Yawn “Men will hit on anything. Studies show this.”.
We’ve been through this before.
“Just because men will hit on any woman doesn’t mean they don’t have extremely discriminating palates when it comes to who they’ll want to settle down and procreate with,”
Well that’s good because I have zero intention of settling down with a 20 something.
“If you’re telling me that rich men are willing to do this for you, great.”
They are but I haven’t found one I like yet.
“Look at actual marriage rates (including interracial marraige rates) and who the top porn stars are, to see who the IDEAL woman is for most men in this country”
Wow. Really? That’s great.
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Crackpot, I’ve said this here before and no one listened so I probably shouldn’t bother to say it again, but here goes: rich men, or at least those who are socially prominent, don’t necessarily want to marry women who will make them look bad by acting or looking too much like bimbos.
The very handsome JFK Jr., who could surely have married anyone he wanted, chose the pretty but rather odd-looking Carolyn Bessette, a woman who bore no resemblance whatever to a porn star.
Prince Charles chose the young and pretty (to some people) Diana, but preferred the much older Camilla to his wife.
Henry Kravitz married twice; the first time to Carolyn Roehme, an obvious social x-ray type; the second time to Marie Josee Drouin, a very successful and well-known economist. Neither of them looked like porn stars or even models.
Mortimer Zuckerman had a series of affairs with pretty but extremely ambitious women, including, so I’ve heard, Gloria Steinem (!). At 59 he married and divorced the very beautiful and ambitious Marla Prather, director of the National Gallery’s 20th Century Art wing. She was much younger than he – but she was still all of 39 (that’s thirty-nine) years old at the time. She looks more like a model than a porn star.
Bill Gates married Melinda French when she was 30 and he was 39. She’s attractive but doesn’t resemble a porn star either.
Now, that’s all anecdotal evidence, of course, but since extremely rich men do not form a very large group to begin with, it’s not illegitimate to use these few as examples. And their marriage patterns suggest that the theory that rich men with all the choice in the world prefer very young, buxom blondes for wives is perhaps flawed.
Also: remember, the older the woman, the fewer the resources he’ll have to spend on her if he marries her.
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“Wow. Really? That’s great”
In other words, men preferably marry fertile, goodlooking women. And only young women are fertile and goodlooking.
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And fertile is the key here. Men prefer to marry a twenty year old average woman over a 40 year old beaurty queen, even if the beauty queen might FOR THE MOMENT look better.
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Gannon: OMG, we GET it, already! NO man on the planet marries a woman over 25 of his own volition! All those 30-something guys out there marrying women within a few years of their own age are doing so only because somebody’s holding a gun to their heads! Women should just go throw themselves off a cliff on the eve of their 30th birthday!
Can we *please* consider that horse flogged into liquidity? Good lord.
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“Women should just go throw themselves off a cliff on the eve of their 30th birthday!”
No. they should be happily married to a guy in his early forties and take care of their children. They shouldn’t believe however that they are still 17.
By the way, anonimous, in all your examples men married women 10-15 years old younger, just like Gannon recomends.
For example, take Bill Gates case, a 30 year old woman can still bear him children. However, American society expects form the average 40 year old man to quit his dreams of having his own family and feed a fat forty year old divorce with two children instead. Also, remember that these are your official wifes, and that many rich men have non public secret lovers in their twenties.
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83:
***
Tom Cruise an Alpha Male? Come on guys … Cruise is a joke. Late night and morning drive time comedians make jokes about Cruise being gay. People LAUGH at him. Heck Jerry O’Connell made a YouTube classic parodying Cruise, including his maniacal laughter.
***
One way you can tell a prole is that they all “think” alike. It’s important to put “think” in quotes though, because they are actually just uncritically absorbing what TV and Radio beam directly into their brain.
I remember exactly what triggered the Tom Cruise hate fest. He criticized shoving pills, specifically Ritalin, down the throats of young boys on Oprah. I know we like to say “kids” so we can, you know, avoid the fact that 90% of victims are boys, but it’s young boys.
I suggest any prole who has had their mighty prole mind powerfully stimulated by TV and Radio to have the local drug dealer hook them up with some Ritalin. The prole should then take an overdose and as they collapse in a siezure on the floor, keep repeating “Not a dangerous drug, Not a dangerous drug.” If the prole begin halucinating, a definite possibility, the prole shouldn’t worry. Hopefully, that means his trip will soon be over, and the world will have one less prole to worry about.
Is that “Elite” enough for the Prole boys to ignore, as they are trained by TV/Radio?
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***
Maybe my experiences are different since I went to Catholic School for K-12, but I never noticed any overarching evil feminist conspiracy that shamed masculine desire for women. My nephew attends public school, and I haven’t noticed anything like it in his schooling.
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Exactly what percentage of teachers are women?
http://www.idra.org/IDRA_Newsletter/May_1998_Equity_Celebrating_25_Years_1973_-_1998/Women_in_Education_Fields/
A straight answer from a feminist. Women are 77% of teachers.
And yet somehow school isn’t a female dominated enviroment.
I can only say wow.
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@86 Sara
I don’t want to fizzle your wizzle but would imagine there is a considerable age difference between us. Though I’m past 40 (have never given my actual age here. Hehe.) I can tell you this; men much much younger are hitting on me. Just putting it out there, as I know time is valuable to us all. One thing we have in common-”the PUA machinations has always made me giggle” too.
Au Contrair, Mon Fraire (Mon Ami would be more accurate)
I am 34, one of my exe’s just hit 49.
My Late wife was 38 when I was 27.
My interest in you is platonic at this point. (who knows what the future has in store)
I am not someone who engages in ageism. I am not a pederast or pedophile, however I could love any woman between the ages of 16 and 60.
[About half my age through twice as high]
I view love as a choice, not just a psycho-chemical reaction in the brain. I think chemistry is part of attraction, but that is only one dimension of a relationship. I also believe in destiny, as well as karma. I think there is a soul, and that soul-mates do exist.
I stopped thinking with my penis, about the time I had realized I lost the ability to count all my past sexual escapades, and had the epiphany…
Sexual conquest provides neither wisdom nor significance.
I had wallowed long enough in my Taurus sensuality, and had only gained temporary and momentary pleasure for it.
And got tired of the trips to jail for rough fights with angry boyfriend’s and husbands.
But I don’t want this post to turn into a personals profile.
I just wanted you (Sara) to see more of me than you had.
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No. they should be happily married to a guy in his early forties and take care of their children.
In other words, they should be bored out of their minds doing all the boring useless shit while their male counterparts get to have lives. I’d prefer to harness the economic power of half of our population instead of wasting it breeding machines.
Remember kids, fun is only for boys, not for girls.
Also, remember that these are your official wifes, and that many rich men have non public secret lovers in their twenties.
So what is the point of getting married if one has to cheat on your partner to satisfy one’s sexual appetite?
And yet somehow school isn’t a female dominated enviroment.
As I said, I didn’t notice any so-called feminist influence with the possible exception of one teacher, and nearby everybody presumed she was a closet lesbian and ignored her.
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Gannon, that anonymous poster was me, alias clio. I forgot to sign in or sign my name.
Gannon, #95
By the way, anonimous, in all your examples men married women 10-15 years old younger, just like Gannon recomends.
You’ve got your facts wrong, Gannon, or you weren’t reading carefully. Marie-Josee Kravis (b. 1949) is only 5 years younger than Kravis (b. 1944), and slightly older than his first wife, who was born in 1951. Carolyn Bessette Kennedy was 6 years younger than JFK Jr. Charles married the younger Diana but preferred the older mistress, as I already mentioned.
Why didn’t Zuckerman choose a nice 28-year-old, instead of a woman who, at 39, was – by your reckoning at least – most unlikely to be able to bear him a child?
Anyway, you’ve switched gears. You had suggested in your previous post that all men would seek out young nubile women if they could, all the time. You didn’t make any qualifications, at least in that particular post, about relative age differences – it was absolute youth (20s or under) that you spoke of as most desirable to men at all times. And as for the idea that these men may have much younger mistresses – your previous post insisted that rich men certainly couldn’t be bothered to waste their resources on women who were not young.
clio
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98 SovereignAmericanMale:
I stopped thinking with my penis, about the time I had realized I lost the ability to count all my past sexual escapades, and had the epiphany…
Sexual conquest provides neither wisdom nor significance.
I had wallowed long enough in my Taurus sensuality, and had only gained temporary and momentary pleasure for it.
You and Sara sound like a great match. Good luck.
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“No. they should be happily married to a guy in his early forties and take care of their children. They shouldn’t believe however that they are still 17.”
This will probably come as a surprise to you, but these are not the only two alternatives available to us crones.
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“In other words, they should be bored out of their minds doing all the boring useless shit while their male counterparts get to have lives. I’d prefer to harness the economic power of half of our population instead of wasting it breeding machines.
“Remember kids, fun is only for boys, not for girls.”
I heart David Alexander! I only wish I looked like a porn star for his benefit.
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Just to clarify my post (#100), in the last line, I meant that by Gannon’s logic, older men should have young wives, to avoid “wasting their resources” on women who were not young enough to bear children.
Clio
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@101 Steve Johnson
“You and Sara sound like a great match. Good luck.”
Thank you for the Good Luck, but I think you misunderstood my interest in her (intelectual) for something more relationship oriented.
Please re-read:
“@86 Sara
My interest in you is platonic at this point.”
Having said that, I will also say that all females I encounter are winnowed into wheat, and chaff, as I am searching for my “THE ONE”. My selection criteria has evolved from merely pleasure for my eyes and skill as a sexual partner, into character traits, intelligence, mental clarity/sanctity. My “The One” could be a 5 and it wouldn’t faze me. I have been lucky enough or blessed, to have danced with enough 10s and 9s to realized I will not put up with a woman who honors, and respects me, and then is haughty and disrespectful to everyone else.
at that point, for me, the 10s external beauty is nullified by internal ugliness. and 80% of the 10s I knew in Manhattan were this way. Of course there are plenty of men who would shackle themselves to a 10 no matter if the relationship would work or not. I pity both them, and the ladies.
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Agreed. Depends on the environment, goal (perceived strategy) of the alpha. Everything can be reframed so stop worrying and have fun.
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btw. I will recommend the atonishing book “Handicap Principle” by Zahavi.
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