I was at a bar with Bang author and noted flip-flop hater Roosh when he spotted a girl wearing the lamest flip-flops ever; the kind you might see in the discount bin at Wal-Mart. He pointed at her flip-flops and made a disgusted face and said something like “Oh, come on!”. She looked offended and said “What?!”
Off to the races!
For the next half hour we barraged bantered back and forth with her about her flip flop faux pas.
“Why would you put all that effort into doing your hair and makeup and dressing nice only to ruin it with flip-flops.”
“In our parents’ generation, women would wear high heels TO THE BEACH. Women have changed for the worse.”
“Flip-flops say ‘I’m not even trying’. No guy takes a girl seriously who can shove her feet into footwear with her eyes closed and the lights off.”
On and on it went. You’d think she would come to hate us, but it was clear by the shine in her eyes that her loins were burning hotter. In order to not make it too personal, Roosh reminded her she wasn’t the sole object of our derision.
“Not to single you out or anything, because I notice this with a lot of women in DC…”
She started qualifying herself.
“I have flip-flops at home with a strap around the heel! Are those OK?”
Then she was put on the defensive as we pointed out acceptable footwear on other girls.
“See, look at her. Now those are nice shoes and shows she cares about the feelings of men.”
This was really a tour de force. I enjoyed the spectacle. At the end she was practically begging to be picked up. I concluded that flip-flop game would work as a solid opener and attraction builder as it hit on many major themes — reversing the chooser frame, qualifying the girl, situational awareness, screening, cocky funny, and most importantly… NOT DOING WHAT EVERY OTHER BORING BETA DOES.
It doesn’t need to be only flip-flops. Choose any fashion statement that bugs you. Personally, I disapprove of hoop earrings. If you go in strong and assured in your opinion, you can rattle any girl into defending herself and seeking — no, yearning for — your approval. The trick is to avoid insulting her gratuitously; you want to frame it like you were in the middle of pondering the general state of the culture.
Why does this antagonistic game press women’s attraction buttons so powerfully? One reason: It’s different. Being the alpha male means standing out from the hordes of nobodies. Another reason: It subcommunicates that you are successful with women. And a man who is successful with women will give her sons who are also successful with women, increasing the odds that her genes will be passed on in greater number. She feels on a deep reptilian level “Wow, if he can be so brazen with me he must get all the pussy he needs. He has no fear risking my displeasure. I’m attracted!”.
Finally, any opener that you enjoy delivering, and any conversation that is fun to you, will necessarily work better. It almost doesn’t matter if you’re borderline insulting to the girl; if she sees you are completely comfortable, smiling, and passionate about your topic of choice, she’ll get caught up in the moment, relishing the fun vibe you are bringing to her night, even if it means she goes home and immediately throws out her entire flip-flop collection.
First. And yes, flip flops are disgusting on girls.
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I wore flip-flops (black Havaianas) to my own backyard bbq. Completely appropriate and utterly defensible. If you ever see me in them at Marvin, however, intervene all you want.
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I think this applies to the gents as well. At least most women bother to get pedicures…
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No matter what, I cannot stand busted feet. The bunion/hammer toe/crusty foot/overlapping knarled toe show is for old ladies and dykes that don’t give a shit. Their presence will not be tolerated.
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Funny posting, and this — “The trick is to avoid insulting her gratuitously; you want to frame it like you were in the middle of pondering the general state of the culture” — is a great line. I spend a lot of time pondering the general state of the culture myself. Maybe I ought to take it to the clubs. Oops, too late: I’m already married.
FWIW, I find flipflops and hoop earrings hot.
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I see nothing wrong with flip flops in most informal occasions.
And isn’t it sort of effeminate for a man to be noticing a woman’s footwear?
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I like the combination of sun dress + A or B cups. Flip flops work nicely with that.
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“pondering the general state of the culture” is such a natural state for me (and probably many other readers who arrived here through the Blowhard/Cowen axis) that I almost wonder how I don’t slip into game more often…
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Yep, this does work, personally I like dissing on girls with jean frayed skirts and flip flops (Southern California’s beach girl uniform).
I prefer girls in Miami Beach…high heels and dresses at the beach.
On another note, there can be a benefit to dissing horrible trends on guys to girls you are with, ie dissing Affiliction Shirts, Ed Hardy shirts, and suspect designer jeans on guys.
Whenever a girl goes out on her own and sees guys dressed terrible like this (and she will), she will be repulsed by these guys and think of you….
The late night calls from girls will just roll on in come 2:30am…
Innovative.
-MPM
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“And isn’t it sort of effeminate for a man to be noticing a woman’s footwear?”
– Not when you enjoy banging girls from behind that are wearing high heels and skirts.
– MPM
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haha… nice opener too bad around here EVERYONE wears flip-flops.
i like it though… i’ll have to use it sometime soon. i’ll even be so bold as to use it despite the fact that i’m also wearing flip-flops. i can already smell the musk that will accumulate from the juices of my prey’s vaginal canal as i spit forth the hypocrisy.
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So she was solo at that point? She had no one cockblocking?
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The worst is white flip flops with black attire. I would add the hideousness of ballet shoes. Personally, if some guy wanted to berate my attire, I may find it entertaining and would banter with him, but am way too much of a bitch to back down and attempt to then “qualify” myself to him.
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11 kick a bitch
i can already smell the musk that will accumulate from the juices of my prey’s vaginal canal as i spit forth the hypocrisy.
I rest my case.
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i can already smell the musk that will accumulate from the juices of my prey’s vaginal canal as i spit forth the hypocrisy.
And nothing makes the musk so fine as a thick, rich, luxuriant Glorious Natural Pelt.
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“Your flip-flops, they make your nine toes look like nine engorged clitori, coyly delightful and webbed; your hoop earings, they are dangling silvery anuses, gleaming softly in the evening light.”
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I saw a smoking-hot broad wearing flip flops at a rock n’ roll show this weekend. If anything, I worried that someone might step on her unprotected toes.
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lmao
you east coast people are so
uptight, calculating, superficial, metrosexual andlameplease stay out of the islands
thx for the laughs, have a good day
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I guess I haven’t noticed the flip-flop epidemic at nice bars on a Friday/Saturday night. Most of the girls I know have flip flops in their bag that they hold onto until 2am when it’s time to walk home. Until last call, we wear our 3+ inch stilettos, then change around the corner. Have you ever walked a mile in 3 inch stilettos? You would pack a pair of flip-flops, too.
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@Sara, you’re much nicer than me.
If a guy commented on my flipflops or sandals, I’d give him the Gay finger(s).
That’s middle finger crossed halfway over the index, for optimal insertion. I’d assume a guy capping on my clothing is Gay or at least likes it in the pooper.
After I heard the comments, then I might look to see if he was heterosexually inclined enough to get fisted by a girl. I’d know right off, that I’d be the man in that “relationship”.
So actually, that game could work well if you want her toes someplace naughty.
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Caring/noticing women’s fashions seems to me to be … gay. That’s just my visceral reaction. Hell I don’t care what men wear, and women even less about “fashion.” The woman is either hot or not, and she’s hot in sweats and t-shirt, or the latest (gay male fashion designer, but I repeat myself) fashions from New York.
To me, making a comment about a woman’s clothes/shoes whatever seems incredibly gay. Something the guy on the “What Not To Wear” show would do. Yes of course she’s comfortable with you, she thinks “Oh goodie, a nice gay man into fashion.”
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Roissy:
Personally, I disapprove of hoop earrings.
What the….?
First the Sufjan Stevens thing and now this??? I’m worried all that poon you’re getting is affecting your brain, and not in a good way.
For me, there are few things sexier than a raven-haired, caramel-skinned, latina/meditteranean hottie with a large hoop earing laying against her creamy tan skin as I softly nibble at her earlobes…mmmmmmm.
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@5 Michael the B:
FWIW, I find flipflops and hoop earrings hot.
I knew it! You’re actually David Alexander!
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whiskey: Yes of course she’s comfortable with you, she thinks “Oh goodie, a nice gay man into fashion.”
Hence the effectiveness as an opening. Seeming sorta kinda gay…works like a charm. Lurking with hardcore heterosexual intensity, waves of T-soaked sweat pouring from your pits while you STAAAAARE at her crotch…hey tiger, you’re masturbating tonight!
I have a good friend with a very impressive set whose gay friends get to bury their face in her bosom and go “phhpphhph”. She trusts them, you see. She doesn’t trust me. I didn’t present as gay when we first met…something I now regret. I won’t make that mistake.
I’m guessing a lot of disqualification practices are derived from watching how gay males relate to women. Makes sense if you think about it.
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Well…there’s Gay and then there’s Gay…not all Gay is totally Gay.
Some women enjoy sack time with a male Lesbian sort of Gay guy…opens jars like a man, but shags as well as a woman.
Understanding that Gay isn’t always 100%, part of where the trust comes from is that usually Bi men who actually befriend women, understand women well enough that they’re not really interested in actually taking advantage of a woman. They understand where the limits are, and skirt them with giggling abandon.
So a Bi friend can bury his face in a woman’s bosom, or even shag her, and it’s all good because he’s actually looked out for her pleasure, and the event hasn’t reduced her value to him.
On the dark side of that, some of them are very good at beating women at their own game. A few of them I know have basically slid women into the friend zone after having sex with them because the sex reduced his value in her eyes. Once they did it, suddenly he was supposed to be her credit card on an incubator or something.
And :: circle snap and the neck thing :: we can’t be havin’ that.
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14 sara I
You LOVE that shit…
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Yo Patrick.
I’m not feeling any warmth from our beloved Miss Clio.
I ask: how did *you*, my forebearer, deal with the cold, lonely nights, hunched and fetal, shivering and alone, your only companion a table set for two, with the shattered remnants of a wine glass thrown in fit of rage, its former contents spreading on the carpet serving as mute testimony to the aching in your soul?
HOW?
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So a Bi friend can bury his face in a woman’s bosom, or even shag her, and it’s all good because he’s actually looked out for her pleasure, and the event hasn’t reduced her value to him
The problem with bi men is high risk of HIV. 25% of gay men in my fair city are HIV positive. Bi-men are about the same, but, it’s hard to get good stats.
Why put yourself through that. Our secretary died that way.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N04255392.htm
In Latin America, which is hosting the biennial international AIDS conference for the first time, the report found gay and bisexual men were 33 times more likely to be infected with HIV than the general population.
In Bolivia, they were 179 times more likely to be infected with HIV than the general population. In Mexico, one study found 26 percent of men who had sex with men had HIV, the highest rate in any country in Latin America.
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Nicole, yes, that all sounds right to me. And there are gay/bi men with serious sexuality issues who take that out in really ugly emotional games played on women. Some really nasty “players” who enjoy messing not with women’s bodies, but distinctly and consciously with their feelings. I not like these guys. Me smash them!
From the other end of the rainbow, I’ve had sex with real lesbians (not campus “bis”) who enjoyed the occasional toss with a guy. Interestingly, they liked to get it good and hard, without any emotional “lovemaking” aspect at all. (One of them said she liked her men to be “hyper in the sack”…and did she ever!)
Indicating to me that these (not even presenting as bi) real lesbians didn’t mind penises at all (they were not victims of sex abuse, running to women to escape the dreaded penis thing, but real actual lesbians deeply into women), enjoyed and liked men…but reserved their deepest romantic feelings as expressed in making love to women.
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Which just goes to reinforce my belief that any Kinsey-style behavioristic approach to sexual orientation (how many men vs. women have you been with?) misses the point. It’s who you fall in love with, get romantic with, make love to. Not who you fuck. The latter is pretty flexible in both sexes and in both orientations. I think in that sense there are very few real bis out there, people equally able to fall truly deeply in love with members of either sex.
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It works. One time I put effort into a girl, immediately got phone number and date was when I talked how ridiculous her dress looked. It was a lot of fun. It remained fun because just realizing how ridiculous girls are made me laugh at the stupidity of the whole thing and keep on going with the slight insults. Anyway, a sad indictment of womankind. They like insults.
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Gimme poon with hair
Long beautiful hair
Shining, gleaming,
Streaming, flaxen, waxen
Give me down to there hair
Ankle length or longer
Here baby, there mama
Everywhere daddy daddy
Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Flow it, show it
Long as God can grow it
Her hair
Let it fly in the breeze
And get caught in the trees
Give a home to the fleas in her hair
A home for fleas
A hive for bees
A nest for birds
There ain’t no words
For the beauty, the splendor, the wonder
Of her…
Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Flow it, show it
Long as God can grow it
Her hair
I want it long, straight, curly, fuzzy
Snaggy, shaggy, ratty, matty
Oily, greasy, fleecy
Shining, gleaming, streaming
Flaxen, waxen
Knotted, polka-dotted
Twisted, beaded, braided
Powdered, flowered, and confettied
Bangled, tangled, spangled, and spaghettied!
Oh say can you see
Her knees if you can
Then her hair’s too short
Down to here
Down to there
Down to where
It stops by itself
They’ll be ga ga at the go go
When they see her in her toga
Her toga made of blond
Brilliantined
Biblical hair
Her hair like Jesus wore it
Hallelujah I adore it
Hallelujah Mary loved her son
Why don’t my mother love me?
Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Flow it, show it
Long as God can grow it
Her hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair
Flow it, show it
Long as God can grow it
Her hair
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NOT DOING WHAT EVERY OTHER BORING BETA DOES.
It’s really tragic comic to observe roissy’s delusional fantasy world where there’s supposed to be some kind of huge difference between “alphas” and “betas.” Newsflash: you’re all equally pathetic.
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While I love high heels*, I’m not going to berate a female for choosing to wear flip flops or ballet slippers. High heels aren’t the easiest things to wear, and they can cause short-term pain and long-term damage, so I’ll refrain from demanding them.
OTOH, I’m rather appreciative of girls who do wear high heels and get their nails done which means I can become a little submissive prick around those girls. Hell, “date girl” noticed my hypnotic glances towards the other women who indulge in wearing high heels and acrylic nails.
Personally, I disapprove of hoop earrings.
I love hoop earrings. 🙂
A or B cups
I see that you’re a closeted homosexual.
I knew it! You’re actually David Alexander!
That look goes better with wedge sandals.
*5 in Stilletto High heels + Acrylic Nails = win
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There are few things as sexy as A or B cup breasts under a peekaboo tease-me top. Small boobies are like jewels, big ones, like udders.
Which reminds me. There are several ways a woman can display her boobies, none of which are used today:
– the peekaboo
– the pokies
– the cleavage
– the see-thru
– the jiggle
None of these alluring techniques, sadly, are on display among yong urban women today. And they’re supposedly so slutty and sex-in-the-cityish. They all have the same turtle-shell bra covering and immobilizing the entir tit. Even if teh blouse has a low neckline, all you see is the sharp edge of the steel-and-canvas constructed shield poking out.
No hope whatsovever of appreciating a fine breast (A or B cup, preferrably) much less catching a casual nip-slip.
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Sounds like Roosh has one hell of a nuanced neg formulated there. A very smart one that can work over and over again.
Good for him. The following sentences such as “why do you even bother to dress up if only to wear such prole footwear?” and “my mother’s generation wore heels to the beach”, and “you could have at least color coordinated them”, and “were they blue light specials or pricebusters at Wally-world”, and possibly even “Did you see some European model in a fashion magazine wearing them and reason that they were hip? Please dont tell me you read ______ fashion magazine, my ex says they are always two years behind”.
There is so much that can be “ran’ from the flip flops observation. Its great stuff.
I enjoyed Roosh’s book. I think his ideas about conversational “threads” and how to have them ready in the first half-hour or so is the best insight therein. It really is eye-level social science. Even if men choose not to indulge in game, they should give it a read—-and learn some psychology.
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I don’t know if you remember we got into a discussion with a girl and her English friend the week before. I railed on her and her flip flops and she was stunned at first like a drunkard getting tazed by a policeman but then she calmed down and payed attention. I think we were giving her cooking tips by the end of the conversation.
The three excuses for flip flops are all unacceptable:
“I didn’t know I was coming out!” Sure.
“But I walked all day today!” So wear something more respectable like ballet flats.
“But it’s soooo much more comfortable.” Pajamas are more comfortable but you don’t see me wearing them to the bar now do you you lazy hag.
I don’t give a shit about style, but if a girl can’t at least do the bare minimum to make herself look good, she will not do anything to please her man, which thank god isn’t going to be me. It’s one of those “reading between the lines” things that your beta readers don’t get.
Also I think we decided the official rule is that if it has a strap on the back, it’s acceptable footwear. She had to bend down to at least put it on.
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@ Glengarry Glenpoon 32 –
That song made me … excited.
Thanks.
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Roosh said:
“Also I think we decided the official rule is that if it has a strap on the back, it’s acceptable footwear. She had to bend down to at least put it on.”
that was good thinking, hahahaha!
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The point with flipflops is that they shows laziness. Most guys want a girl who takes care of herself, and will make an effort to look hot. If she won’t make effort on herself, she certainly won’t make an effort for you. I’m tired of seeing it.
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40 could equally be directed at the many guys who wear sneakers/shorts/t-shirts all the time. And often is, by women.
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“you east coast people are so uptight, calculating, superficial, metrosexual and lame
please stay out of the islands”
– I wouldn’t consider myself “East Coast”, I have traveled too much in my life.
Also, depends on which Islands you are talking about. I saw plenty of girls in high heels on Puerto Rico, DR, Ibiza, Sardinia and St. Barts this year.
By the way, aren’t Tokyo, London, Dublin and Sydney all on “Islands”?
– MPM
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I don’t have a problem with women wearing flip-flops as long as they have pretty feet.
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Yes PatrickH, but the woman in question won’t sleep with the gay male pals either. They’re gay pals (I never got the fascination women have with gay men) and that’s that.
Meanwhile, the guy who has lots of attention (to OTHER women), and affects a casual, disinterested attitude towards the hottie picks her up. Particularly if he asks her about some other woman. She knows he is not gay, and not much interested in her either … but the competition.
And no Patrick, there’s enough evidence to suggest women operate on a sliding scale of orientation, and men are either gay or straight. That’s it. [Not including situations like Prison, or the Taliban, etc.]
What puzzles me is the negative reaction straight men have to gay men, one would think on the face of it that means less competition so should be encouraged. But it’s not.
Who the heck cares about what shoes a woman wears? Is she any less hot or not either way? Heck she could wear steel toed workboots, she’s either hot … or not. [Which is not just physical attributes either.]
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TC: I ask: how did *you*, my forebearer, deal with the cold, lonely nights, hunched and fetal, shivering and alone, your only companion a table set for two, with the shattered remnants of a wine glass thrown in fit of rage, its former contents spreading on the carpet serving as mute testimony to the aching in your soul?
I’d call Clio up and she would come over and make everything better. How else? Sometimes I didn’t even need to call. She just knew I needed her. She knew.
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Who the heck cares about what shoes a woman wears? Is she any less hot or not either way? Heck she could wear steel toed workboots, she’s either hot … or not. [Which is not just physical attributes either.]
I was rather amused by some of the comments here earlier about how clothes and makeup can make a large difference on the 10-point scale — where I doubt it’s often more than 1 or 2 points. Some seemed to be suggesting it could be the difference between a 3 and an 8. Yeah, right…
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45 PatrickH:
I’d call Clio up and she would come over and make everything better. How else? Sometimes I didn’t even need to call. She just knew I needed her. She knew.
You bastard.
You magnificent bastard.
TC
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I’ve topped the *neener*? But that’s impossible. No one tops the *neener*!
TC: you all right? This isn’t like you. Talk to me, man. We’ll get you through this, together. Talk to me. I’m worried sick.
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“High heels make the compelling, aggressive tattoo of castanets. Flip-flops sound like water belching from a fire hydrant. Following a woman in high heels up out of the subway is like discovering America. Following a woman in flip-flops up out of the subway is like riding the subway.”
–Rick Brookhiser
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48 PatrickH:
Oh, I suspect I’ll be feeling a lot better as soon as I beat Clio’s number out of you. >:)
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49 SD
I love it!
I’m sleeping with my hills on!
; )
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@38 And for the encore, cmon everybody:
“Them crazy, them crazy –
We gonna chase those crazy
Baldheads out of town;
Chase those crazy baldheads
Out of our town.”
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“High heels make the compelling, aggressive tattoo of castanets. Flip-flops sound like water belching from a fire hydrant. Following a woman in high heels up out of the subway is like discovering America. Following a woman in flip-flops up out of the subway is like riding the subway.”
–Rick Brookhiser
– great quote.
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Nicole 25–
Why can’t a thoroughly hetro, even macho, male fuck buddy fill a similar emotional and sometimes also sexual space — only better?
Are you afraid, if you’re honest, that one of you will fall in lust/love with the other, in unrequited fashion? That would probably be the woman unless the man felt covertly that way to begin with — but I’m sure not always.
Well it’s a danger but it’s not inevitable either, seems to me. Most good things have dangers.
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Roosh 37–
“Also I think we decided the official rule is that if it has a strap on the back, it’s acceptable footwear. She had to bend down to at least put it on.”
My guess though is she’s gonna wear hotter shoes, not just things with back straps, out to bars at night. It was a good face saving conversation compromise for her though, after lesson learned. Her abject surrender would have been hotter though.
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I went you on this post. I hate flip flops too. People mistake them for real shoes.
I noticed that in DC many men wear flipflops,what’s up with that?
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PatrickH
Which just goes to reinforce my belief that any Kinsey-style behavioristic approach to sexual orientation (how many men vs. women have you been with?) misses the point. It’s who you fall in love with, get romantic with, make love to. Not who you fuck. The latter is pretty flexible in both sexes and in both orientations. I think in that sense there are very few real bis out there, people equally able to fall truly deeply in love with members of either sex
I agree. Sexuality is so not blk&whte.
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@7 PA, I agree. These flip flops look fitting on her:
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19
“I guess I haven’t noticed the flip-flop epidemic at nice bars on a Friday/Saturday night. Most of the girls I know have flip flops in their bag that they hold onto until 2am when it’s time to walk home. Until last call, we wear our 3+ inch stilettos, then change around the corner. Have you ever walked a mile in 3 inch stilettos? You would pack a pair of flip-flops, too.”
LOL! Yet another pathetic excuse. Russian girls (or girls in any other part of the world, for that matter) can dance for 5 hours and then walk 1 kilometer to the metro at 6 AM in 3 inch heels, and then have to walk another km. home to their apartment. In Russia, there’s a saying, “Beauty demands pain.” Guess it’s lost on American girls who would rather pick up the Hostess Twinkie than run for 30 minutes. Guess the American equivalent of the Russian saying should be, “Warpigdom demands laziness and comfort.”
To those men on this board defending flip-flops, just remember that you will only have yourself to blame when your wife turns 35 and looks like Rosanne Barr.
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[…] about how she dresses): “I think it’s refreshing that you’re secure enough to wear flip-flops without irony. Not every girl cares about keeping up with the latest […]
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“I see nothing wrong with flip flops in most informal occasions.
And isn’t it sort of effeminate for a man to be noticing a woman’s footwear?”
My wife read that and said one word. Beta.
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