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Chateau Heartiste

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What You Can Learn From A Beta

October 2, 2008 by CH

I’ve written before that I learned a lot about game by carefully observing men in the field who were naturally good with women, at least as much as I’ve learned from books and internet forums. Every man growing up should have an alpha male mentor, or at least should be part of a social circle that has at least one alpha male so that he can watch and take mental notes about what works with women. I’ve had a few of those guys in my life and they were indispensable to figuring out what behaviors cause women to respond positively.

There is a flip side to that coin. You can learn just as much about what *not* to do by meticulously observing betas getting shot down. Not only will you see which behaviors are counterproductive, but you will get a better feel for those subtle changes in facial expression and body position that girls who have suddenly lost interest will convey.

Here are some of the things I’ve learned by watching betas at the exact moment they got rejected, like the sad but amusing moment Ralph Wiggums suffered Lisa’s rejection.

  • Betas smile too little and smile too much

Yeah, it seems contradictory, but betas never have a firm grasp on when and how often it’s personally advantageous to smile. They don’t smile when they walk into the bar or before they’ve started talking to a girl, and they smile too much once they are in a conversation with a girl. This behavior reveals their tormented beta soul: They are unhappy to be there until a girl’s presence makes them happy. Would an alpha relinquish his state of mind to another person? Especially a woman? No. His joy is self-generated.

  • Betas are reactive

You can tell a lot about a person by how quickly they answer a question. When a girl asks a beta a question, he answers promptly and enthusiastically. When someone taps him on the shoulder to get his attention, he spins around immediately, looking almost shocked by the intrusion into his personal space. This is reactive behavior. The first says “Wow I can’t believe a girl is talking to me!” The second reaction says “I am skittish because I doubt my ability to calmly handle these high pressure social situations.” Alphas always pause a second too long before responding to a girl, pushing her to the brink of slight discomfort. This makes her intrigued. Alphas also do not react hyperdefensively when another man confronts him. They take their sweet time, savoring the buildup of tension. This allows them to think of the best thing to say, and to take stock of the situation.

  • Betas play it straight

Betas seem to have forgotten what childhood was like. They take life too seriously, and they take girls even more seriously. They always answer questions straight, as if life were a final exam with right and wrong answers. This mode of thinking is toxic to pickup. Girls secretly don’t want you to answer their questions; they want you to tease them mercilessly, at least until she is attracted to you. Alphas instinctually understand the art of playfulness.

  • Betas push themselves on people

When someone gives the beta the time of day, that person becomes the center of the beta’s universe. I have often seen betas lunge into the personal space of women, like an aardvark snuffling for termites, who were initially friendly with them. Betas quickly manifest the stink of neediness given the chance. Their focus is too intense too soon. Alphas, by contrast, keep their bodies loose and uninvested in the conversation, until they have decided the time is right to divert all their valuable attention on the person in front of them.

  • Betas can’t stop looking around

The next time you watch a beta standing by himself holding his beer up to his chin, notice how often he lets his head swivel around the room. Back and forth, up and down, all around. This behavior shows too much concern with his environment. The alpha gets the lay of the land early on, then minimizes his head swiveling. Think about it, how much does the king who sits on his throne swivel his head around the castle room? Not often, because he is the center of attention, and people’s heads swivel to him.

  • Betas are defensive and apologetic

Sometimes a girl will call the beta out on something he said. She will challenge his story or make fun of his opinions. The beta invariably bristles, defensively correcting her or huffily and spastically clarifying whatever point he was making. Often, he will simply apologize in so many words. Girl: “I can’t believe you like that band! They’re so derivative!” Beta: “Well, I didn’t say I liked them that much. They can be a little derivative, that’s true.” Compare how an alpha would handle this. Girl: “I can’t believe you like that band!…” Alpha: [cutting her off] I take it you’re a Britney Spears fan, then? Explains a lot.”

  • Betas always look like they have a load in their pants

Are betas incapable of finding pants that fit them? It would seem so, because they all wear ill-fitting pants and walk in a way that suggests they loaded their diapers. Alphas seem to know how pants should fit on a man.

***

Before I was exceptionally good at meeting women, I once caught myself in a bar wall mirror talking to a girl who was slowly losing interest in our conversation. I was appalled by my awkward body language, and sufficiently stirred to action by the reflection of my betaness to change those behaviors that were holding me back.

Every man should hit on a girl in front of a mirror, and stop to observe his posture. Better yet, he should have a buddy secretly film him in the field. The wake-up call will leave him stunned.

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Posted in Beta, Game | 107 Comments

107 Responses

  1. on October 2, 2008 at 4:29 pm Anonymous

    Every man growing up should have an alpha male mentor, or at least should be part of a social circle that has at least one alpha male so that he can watch and take mental notes about what works with women.

    Not all Alphas make good mentors. In my early 20’s I sometimes hung around with this guy named Chris who seemed to have a nearly unlimited ability to score with the best women. On more than one occasion I asked him if he had any tips or advice, so maybe I could enjoy similar luck. Heck, if I had had one-tenth of his luck I would’ve been thrilled. Unfortunately, Chris didn’t seem to be able to explain his method very well, even though being a decent sort I’m sure he would have been happy to help. He pretty much attributed his luck to instinct and couldn’t pass on any advice.

    Peter

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  2. on October 2, 2008 at 4:50 pm Anonymous2

    The problem with learning by watching other people make mistakes is that your ego gets in the way. You tell yourself “I would never act like that” or “I wouldn’t have said that”, etc…
    You’re seeing things from a detached perspective, without the adrenalin surging through your veins and various emotions swirling through your brain.

    LikeLike


  3. on October 2, 2008 at 5:28 pm Let's be honest

    If there is a common thread running through the Beta mistakes you list it is the following: the Betas are simply revealing they are Betas. Their overeagerness, their anxiety, their defensiveness, their rigidity towards life, women, people stems from their true nature. Which is they are – at bottom, at root, at core – middling, mediocre men. They may have had some success in life, but not more than the average guy. This is what is ultimately coming through.

    When you talk about Alphas being relaxed, undefensive, their flexibility, not taking women seriously: all stems from THEIR natural being – they are capable, above-average men.

    You can only put on a fake posture of “game” for so long in trying to fool women.

    Don’t you think that a better way for men to improve their “game” with women is to improve themselves as “men” first – to work at gaining money, power, status, mastery in career. By doing so, such Betas will move beyond the middling, mediocre people they are towards capability, superiority. Towards the world of Alpha.

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  4. on October 2, 2008 at 5:33 pm Thursday

    Some naturals are fairly conscious of what they do to attract women, and can articulate it to at least some degree.

    Others go on pure instinct and honestly cannot tell you how they get women. These latter are often sadly vulnerable to suddenly losing their game due to confidence sapping life events and often cannot get it back. There is nothing sadder than a former player who wanders around in a daze wondering where it all went. They also tend to make terrible mentors, at least when you are just starting out.

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  5. on October 2, 2008 at 5:35 pm Anonymous

    I spent a summer watching an Alpha pick up a new chick each night, while out travelling on Dead tour. I was lucky to score once that summer. Not only was the guy charming, but he was hot. I can be charming, but I’m ugly. Even if an ugly guy works out and learns some game, in some circles, he ain’t getting any.

    That’s why I learned to move in different circles. Cultures who haven’t seen a lot of westerners have oodles of young girls who still think I’ve got it all going on – even not that I’m over 40. Here I can be ugly, and work my game.

    Comportment and how much money you can throw around makes a difference, but if you are a truly ugly man, it might not make enough difference. We need an extra edge. A three or a four with game is like post-menopausal woman who keeps fit and stays social. Ya, you can still get a little.

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  6. on October 2, 2008 at 5:38 pm Fugly

    My post just got lost.

    I once spent a summer travelling with an alfa on Dead tour. He got laid every night – I was lucky to a piece just once that summer.

    The thing is, I’m fugly. Downright ugly. I had to move to SEA to have young girls find me hot.

    LikeLike


  7. on October 2, 2008 at 5:42 pm qt

    I have often seen betas lunge into the personal space of women, like an aardvark snuffling for termites, who were initially friendly with them. Betas quickly manifest the stink of neediness given the chance.

    Word.

    The body language of “I would like to get to know you better” is distinctly different from the body language of “I need you to talk to me”.

    In my field, we are videotaped as trainees talking to clients of the firm (that volunteer for this particular exercise) as though they are new prospects. Our whole class has to watch each person’s tape. All of us cringed when seeing the subconscious protective gestures we made during these conversations.

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  8. on October 2, 2008 at 5:43 pm Thursday

    You can only put on a fake posture of “game” for so long in trying to fool women.

    Fake it til you make it works. Once you get a little bit of success from using outer game techniques, you will start to develop real confidence with women.

    Don’t you think that a better way for men to improve their “game” with women is to improve themselves as “men” first – to work at gaining money, power, status, mastery in career.

    Being successful and confident in the other areas of your life certainly helps, but there are specific problems with dealing with women that need to be addressed on their own terms.

    LikeLike


  9. on October 2, 2008 at 5:47 pm qt

    You can only put on a fake posture of “game” for so long in trying to fool women.

    Again, there is a dichotomy here. If you are talking about making up fake stories about yourself to get women’s attention like some advocate, yeah. That isn’t going to fly for too long.

    I think the main point here tho is that the listed behaviors are somewhat easy to modify with a bit more awareness of what they project to women.

    LikeLike


  10. on October 2, 2008 at 5:55 pm Bob

    @Let’s be honest

    Sometimes adopting a particular physical behavior can change your mind. For instance, when you smile, you become happier. So there’s a two way street between your external behavior and your internal thought patterns.

    It’s true that your external behaviors are symptomatic of your internal beliefs, but by adopting external behaviors of a confident male, you can actually change your internal confidence.

    LikeLike


  11. on October 2, 2008 at 6:02 pm zorgon

    I have often seen betas lunge into the personal space of women, like an aardvark snuffling for termites, who were initially friendly with them. Betas quickly manifest the stink of neediness given the chance.

    Isn’t this advice contradictory with kino? Or are you just saying you should (e.g.) lean back and use kino anyway?

    Let’s be honest 4:

    [Betas] may have had some success in life, but not more than the average guy.

    Ummm, in the computer industry, I know plenty of betas who have quite a few millions to their name. Some are “provider betas”, while others are just your basic geeky guys. I wouldn’t call these folks “unsuccessful” in the large — only unsuccessful in the specific area of “having lots of sex with hot women.”

    Or, heck, if you want a pair of extreme examples of incredibly successful betas: Warren Buffett and Bill Gates.

    Success with money and success with women are orthogonal.

    LikeLike


  12. on October 2, 2008 at 6:04 pm Affe

    Oy. Leviticus has fewer rules.

    LikeLike


  13. on October 2, 2008 at 6:08 pm Anonymous2

    monohechomierda, you calling VK short??? Them’s fighting words.

    LikeLike


  14. on October 2, 2008 at 6:14 pm agnostic

    Politeness is another one. Asking her what she wants, holding or watching her things, fetching something she wants, stepping aside to let her pass, etc.

    Oftentimes when a girl is blocking your way, she *wants* you to bump into her. Hell, the 5’1 gymnast in sweatpants or the 5’9 banker chick is hoping you’ll even body-check her. Lemmonex knows what I’m talking about.

    Guys can convince themselves by working the following two lines into the conversation, and see which works better:

    1) “Well it is the gentlemanly thing to do…”

    2) “Well luckily for you, I’m not a gentleman…”

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  15. on October 2, 2008 at 6:18 pm Steve Lurkel

    I’m a beta and I wear ill-fitting trousers.

    LikeLike


  16. on October 2, 2008 at 6:37 pm Matt H

    Unfortunately, Chris didn’t seem to be able to explain his method very well, even though being a decent sort I’m sure he would have been happy to help. He pretty much attributed his luck to instinct and couldn’t pass on any advice.

    You’d learn more by observing the guy’s behavior than asking him to explain it, ie, watch his body language, listen to his tone. Most alphas aren’t consciously aware of what they’re doing — they just do it.

    “Watch and learn, fellas… watch and learn.”

    LikeLike


  17. on October 2, 2008 at 6:44 pm Zylonet

    I don’t have time to write at length, but here is some advice on how to free your Alpha within:

    Make sure your testosterone is above 1000 ng/dl. If it’s below 350-400, then immediately go on TRT. If it’s around 600 ng/dl (a good level), and you are a low confidence wimp, then try LJ100 for 2 months. I had good natural test levels, but an illness dropped them along with my manhood. I went on TRT and everything is better again. I recommend: ~70mg testosterone cypionate on Sunday and Thursday, along with .5mg Arimidex. I then add 250iu of HCG 3x week. From this I estimate that I have 18-25 ejaculations per week. TRT is wonderful. I am in my mid-30’s and feel like I am 18. My friends are now pussy-whipped. Whenever I need something extra I will inject up to 400mg per week and take a 2mg of Arimidex. This juice enables to walk into any meeting without a scintilla of doubt.

    For much of my life I failed to capitalize on my Alpha instincts. I would let self-doubt ruin my fun. I decided to get back into great shape, to wear nice clothes and to ask out any woman before me. I soon went from some beautiful women to only beautiful women. I am a family oriented man and I always wanted 5 kids so I have always sought a woman who would be a great mother while remaining a nympho in the bedroom. Soon I was able to win over a co-worker who was once a stripper but also very smart. I was able to convince her to be my wife. This victory, and it was a victory as literally a dozen other men at work were chasing her, was the final element into my destined ascent.

    Today, I am basically the man whom I always sought to be; I am never pushed nor intimidated. Some may think that becoming an Alpha after finding the right woman is pointless. I can assure you that it’s not. For me, I am not even sure Alpha status would be possible without my wife. My love of her and of my children is a prime contributor to my feelings of power. They provide the fuel to overcome the dysfunctional thoughts that riddled my youth. I am now fully in command of all that I wish to be: from work to home to sex. Because my wife noticed and was attracted to my Alpha characteristics (even if some of her observations were not accurate, such as her belief that I had previously fornicated with more than 100 women), I was able to properly introduce some subjects around the time of our consummation. Those subjects included my belief that her pussy was now mine and that other women should always be a part of our relationship. This step was absolutely essential and I encourage all men who need women, but cannot fathom the thought of just one women, to utter it.

    Now, while I have blown it on many occasions (such as not starting a porn company where my wife and I would screw teen girls; something to which she agreed years ago but I regrettably didn’t pursue out of potential embarrassment), I have remained an Alpha in my wife’s eyes. Given this, I have been able to treat her with the respect that she deserves while also inspiring her. The result is constant sex many years later and the frequent presence of other women in our bedroom. Quite frankly there is nothing my wife won’t do for me.

    So for those men who struggle to free their Alpha inside I recommend you test your T, get into shape, toss the jeans and button down shirts, and find yourself a woman who will inspire you to greatness. Be sure to also mention that you expect her to invite other women into your bed and to deliver oral sex whenever needed. You may just find that this combination works for you. You may also find yourself with a wife as attractive as mine. For fellow porn lovers (when you take 150mg of T a week you will be a major porn hound), I have found Jessica Bangkok to closely resemble my wife in the eyes, tits, skin tone and hair. However, my wife has a more feminine chin. (for you struggling Alphas, there is hope —NSFW— http://cwians.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/15/jessica_bangkok_1.jpg
    http://www.titilicious.com/nd/bigboss_JessicaBangkok/boss1003.html)

    If anyone ever wants advice on TRT, just email me. If you think you lack confidence, then give it a try. If it all works for you, I would also mention one other piece of advice that has worked for me. Never bring up past women in your life and never agree to swing with another couple. Regarding the former, I believe that introducing the fact that other women have been emotionally intimitate with you is a mistake. Such a discussion will fester in your woman’s mind and make her paranoid that you are capable of loving another. Regarding swinging, there have been many times we have met couples where I could screw a beautiful women if I was willing to swap my wife. No dice. I believe that a man must show his woman that he will defend her body at any cost. To allow another man to touch her would be to defy her faith in you.

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  18. on October 2, 2008 at 6:50 pm ironrailsironweights

    Unfortunately, Chris didn’t seem to be able to explain his method very well, even though being a decent sort I’m sure he would have been happy to help. He pretty much attributed his luck to instinct and couldn’t pass on any advice.

    You’d learn more by observing the guy’s behavior than asking him to explain it, ie, watch his body language, listen to his tone. Most alphas aren’t consciously aware of what they’re doing — they just do it.

    What’s odd is that Chris had amazing luck with women despite having certain effeminate characteristics. He was more concerned with dress and grooming than any other straight man I’ve ever know, and this was years before the word “metrosexual” had entered the vocabulary. He definitely was straight, although upon first meeting him some people (understandably) thought otherwise.

    Peter

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  19. on October 2, 2008 at 7:00 pm Anonymous2

    ironrailsironweights – “He definitely was straight, although upon first meeting him some people (understandably) thought otherwise.”

    This is because most women won’t have their b!tch shields up when a gay man is around. By the time they realized Chris wasn’t gay, he was already in like Flynn (who was an alpha and very effeminate in many ways).

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  20. on October 2, 2008 at 7:03 pm Large Hadron Collider

    Women are like protons

    When you bang them correctly, they give off energy 🙂

    LikeLike


  21. on October 2, 2008 at 7:03 pm The G Manifesto

    You really hit the bullseye on this post. Like a Andre Berto straight right to the temple.

    “* Betas play it straight

    They always answer questions straight, as if life were a final exam with right and wrong answers. This mode of thinking is toxic to pickup. Girls secretly don’t want you to answer their questions; they want you to tease them mercilessly”

    Truer words have not been spoken. Never loose the kid in you.

    – MPM

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  22. on October 2, 2008 at 7:04 pm drew

    Personally, I learned everything I needed to know about women from CakeFarts.com.

    Warning: the highly-relevant postmodern message of this site may be lost on many who cannot appreciate a radical departure from their pedestrian mores.

    LikeLike


  23. on October 2, 2008 at 7:08 pm Kyle

    Zylonet, hormone therapy is for menopausal women.

    LikeLike


  24. on October 2, 2008 at 7:09 pm Virgle Kent

    monohechomierda,

    If this is a strange way of you asking to see my dick? But yes at 5’10 I’m basically a midget

    LikeLike


  25. on October 2, 2008 at 7:24 pm Nate

    I’ve never been good at the smiling aspect. I feel like a tool just grinning at women. Is this something regularly practiced? I’ve never seen it done before.

    So to recap, the alpha approach/look/walk:

    Good fitting clothing, well dressed, shoulders up, grinning as you walk over?

    22 – TRT = Steriods?

    LikeLike


  26. on October 2, 2008 at 7:38 pm Zylonet

    “Zylonet, hormone therapy is for menopausal women.”

    Then call it steroids.

    “22 – TRT = Steriods?”

    TRT does not equal Steroids.

    Steroids = Abuse

    TRT = Unbelievable quality of life when done right.

    TRT = Better longevity

    TRT = Reduced mortality risk

    TRT = Prevention of genito-urinary atrophy

    TRT = Sharper brain function

    TRT = Same energy with less sleep

    TRT = A very happy wife

    TRT = A smart choice for many men, and unnecessary for others.

    TRT = Making women between 30-40 very wet. Many women don’t want to get old and they believe hormones are some type of magic exiler. Therefore, your use of such will increase their curiosity in you and your wife. A natural way to let them see how well drugs work.

    TRT = not for women

    HGH = for women

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  27. on October 2, 2008 at 7:48 pm Ba1anced

    “Soon I was able to WIN over a co-worker who was once a stripper but also very smart. I was able to CONVINCE her to be my wife. This VICTORY, and it was a victory as literally a dozen other men at work were CHASING her, was the final element into my destined ascent.”

    -Zylonet

    Zylonet,

    I’m glad you obtained long term success with this mindset. This is often however the FATAL flaw of higher level provider Betas. When most dudes try to “win over”, “convince”, and “out-compete” to win the affections of a certain woman, they get her……….until she loses the awe in all the hoops you jumped through to get her. She’ll start to resent you and you’ll be blamed for her unhappiness and “something missing” in the relationship (which should have been the authentic raw chemistry that she percieves in her emotional mind) .

    I think men should pursue, but not Chase women…after all , they outnumber us and theres always a new one around the corner if things don’t work out. Plus, women being emotional agents with free will, percieve whatever they want about you regardless. No need the guess what their thinking or what they want all the time. They let you know they want you after you give them a LITTLE opportunity. No need the sweat them…………. unless you are trying to conquer the pussy for a brief moment ;-).

    Again Zylonet, I’m glad things worked out for you. But your outcome is rare. I must ask would you still have your “Alphaness” sans supplement diet, uuber success, and ruthless competitiveness. Nothing wrong with being a Manufactured-Alpha, just understand how percieved losses can affect your innermost core.

    Anon2

    That’s exactly the point. The challenge is in finding and bedding a new woman in hopes that she’s “different”, like a new wine.

    -Ba1anced
    Beta with Alpha Tendencies

    LikeLike


  28. on October 2, 2008 at 8:01 pm G

    Speaking of lessons you can learn from a beta, check this guy out:

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-1002-sex-denial,0,2150341.story

    LikeLike


  29. on October 2, 2008 at 8:44 pm Zylonet

    “I’m glad you obtained long term success with this mindset. This is often however the FATAL flaw of higher level provider Betas. When most dudes try to “win over”, “convince”, and “out-compete” to win the affections of a certain woman, they get her……….until she loses the awe in all the hoops you jumped through to get her. She’ll start to resent you and you’ll be blamed for her unhappiness and “something missing” in the relationship (which should have been the authentic raw chemistry that she percieves in her emotional mind) .”

    Excellent point and I was lucky (because Betaness can show up when the stakes are high) that my pursuit was not over the top. When I was younger I made that mistake with another “wonder woman” type who was very interested and with countless other women. With wifey, I was able to win her through my workplace dominance, physicality, words, thoughts and later writings. I was able to retain cool at most times and probably only crossed the line a few times (too much chasing) in the course of the six months or whatever it was. In fact, we stopped talking for about 2 months during which I had a great run with women at 24 hour fitness. The break-up came somewhat from my chasing too hard, but I quickly realized my mistake and played everything correctly to my eventual satisfaction. Things were back on track when future wife brought me lunch and told me that she had bought a dildo that reminded her of me. I would definitely agree, that chasing a women as you put it, is a mistake and that once you blow it the entire circle of friends can become toxic. It took me 14 years to control it, but I had a decent year or two before shacking up with the wife.

    “I must ask would you still have your “Alphaness” sans supplement diet, uuber success, and ruthless competitiveness. ”

    I would still have some level of Alphaness without my “supplement diet” and everything else, but it would be towards the lower end of that positive spectrum. Still a good place to be, but not the best, and certainly lower than what I presently enjoy. So much of Beta-ness is the inability to sell (Betas lacking opening line confidence). I would imagine there are a lot of Betas who were like me: they don’t like to sell stuff including opening moves. When I finally got over it because I could no longer tolerate my existence, I quickly realized how little game is needed to be moderately successful with women. Fortunately/Unfortunately, I met brown beauty a year or two into my transformation so I didn’t get a ten year run as a bachelor.

    “Nothing wrong with being a Manufactured-Alpha, just understand how percieved losses can affect your innermost core.”

    Good point and I am sure some men would not rate my present life.

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  30. on October 2, 2008 at 9:11 pm dougjnn

    Oh yeah, the kind of beta that’s most instructive is the greater beta who should be some kind of alpha. Or could be.

    He’s fairly good looking, fittish at least (not fat or skeletal), has a good professional job that isn’t without juice and he’s moving up there, and he’s a pretty good conversationalist, once he gets comfortable and going. He’s fine with smart guys — and with girls he knows are off the table for one reason or another.

    This is of course the kind of guy who can most benefit from game. He’s also the kind who’s fawning immediate praise of attractive women and literal minded tenseness with them are so obviously killing his chances.

    He’s a class 1 feminism victim. He was instructable and took copious notes. He respects women. He almost deifies them in fact. They will nearly always be right. And so on.

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  31. on October 2, 2008 at 9:14 pm monohechomierda

    VK,
    No need to be so sensitive about your (lack of) height. I was just making the point that height is one of those things that tickles the reptile part of a woman’s brain and as the shortest of the three it would be a disadvantage. You would therefore probably have the best game out of the three.

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  32. on October 2, 2008 at 9:17 pm Pupu

    25 Large Hadron Collider,

    We don’t just give off energy. We loose weight too! 🙂

    LikeLike


  33. on October 2, 2008 at 5:25 pm Ba1anced

    “You’re seeing things from a detached perspective, without the adrenalin surging through your veins and various emotions swirling through your brain.”

    -Anonymous2

    Anon2,

    I bet she would argue that Alphas have learned overtime to manage their emotions in the heat of the hunt which creates that cool aloofness that so many women crave. So to SOME alphas , especially the natural , gut instinct type, anxiety is a non-issue. They are use to being chose by the best, and a beautiful willing woman is a dime a dozen to them. That is why many are simply Pussy Conaisseurs…..from one beautiful woman to the next. And betas make it easier for them because I think to a woman …being approached by an Alpha after a string of failed attempts from betas is a refreshing breath of originality for her.

    -Ba1anced
    Beta with Alpha Tendencies

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  34. on October 2, 2008 at 9:29 pm dougjnn

    monohechomierda 38

    Agricultural serfs were short. Shortness seems to be an adaptation to a high in grain, low in meat and protein, and perhaps often low in overall calories diet.

    Nomadic or rather transhumanant tribal herders are typically much taller, within the same or closely related racial groups. They also typically periodically overwhelmed the ruling classes of agricultural societies.

    Preference for tall may have started out hundreds of thousands of years ago, but it likely got reinforced in agricultural societies as a kind of visceral attraction to ruling class stock, even when the younger sons have descended into the society.

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  35. on October 2, 2008 at 5:52 pm Anonymous2

    Ba1anced 3 – That’s exactly the response I would expect from him. Yet the idea of being completely in control means you don’t care if you win or lose. At that point, where is the challenge? Why would an alpha waste his time if picking up has no thrill? This is why movie stars, rocks stars, successful artists, etc… get bored with “the life”. It’s a “been there, done that” attitude, and as a result, they blow off incredibly hot women for which most men would give their left nut.

    Thursday 9 – good point. Success in business or life in general does not translate into success with women.

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  36. on October 2, 2008 at 5:54 pm DoJ

    4 Let’s be honest

    Don’t you think that a better way for men to improve their “game” with women is to improve themselves as “men” first – to work at gaining money, power, status, mastery in career. By doing so, such Betas will move beyond the middling, mediocre people they are towards capability, superiority. Towards the world of Alpha.

    You, sir, fail. See the mid-September post “World Leaders Have No Game.” (I would provide a link, but it looks like doing so would force my comment to be held up for moderation until it’s too late to matter.) And there are plenty of very capable people in Silicon Valley and other nerd havens who aren’t particularly interesting to most women.

    That said, becoming an effective person in real life is worthwhile for its own sake, even if no female interest comes with it. Just be aware that it is often a good idea for a competent, nerdy man to dedicate some effort to getting along better with interesting women.

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  37. on October 2, 2008 at 6:11 pm whiskey

    Let’s be honest —

    If that is the case: success with women = high status in life, much power/money, then you are arguing for a “soft” polygamy since by definition only a few men will achieve that.

    The rest will be angry and resentful betas sure to take things out on both women and Alphas. In one form or another.

    Most men are good at something. They may not be superstars, with football stadiums watching them and applauding every move, but they are good at things. The problem is that most men are taught to put women on pedestals, and that’s made worse by the failures most men experience in early adolescence. Just the way it is.

    CH is spot on, but I’ll note this is a RECENT development. Guys in the 1950’s would have laughed at this — who had trouble finding a girlfriend?

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  38. on October 2, 2008 at 10:22 pm da_truth_hurts

    HRT is rather easy to get in many states. Male hormones get a bad rap when used in medicine because of bodybuilders taking it to extremes. Also that one Canadian runner, Ben Johnson.

    Places in south America, like Chile, you can get test in a drug store over the counter. Like anything else in life, knowledge with skill = win.

    See this article about a guy who uses test to his advantage. He doesn’t abuse it, he uses it.

    Testosterone is a miracle compound and one that is sorely lacking today in the west. I blame Xenoestrogens created by toxins from modern plastic containers.

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  39. on October 2, 2008 at 10:26 pm Markku

    Every man should hit on a girl in front of a mirror, and stop to observe his posture. Better yet, he should have a buddy secretly film him in the field. The wake-up call will leave him stunned.

    A great post overall but this one is a really valuable idea.

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  40. on October 2, 2008 at 10:51 pm PatrickH

    41:

    Online. Some good sources there, mostly Euro clearing houses for stuff made in E Europe, Asia (Mexico’s dried up). Do check out a good steroids bible (Llewellyn, Roberts), and they’ll give you pointers on what “brands” to look for (esp. how to recognize/avoid counterfeits).

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  41. on October 2, 2008 at 10:59 pm PatrickH

    Zylonet: Steroids equals abuse. TRT does not equal steroids.

    Interesting. Would appreciate future comment(s) to elaborate on that point. Steroids strike me as simply a slightly different way to produce very similar results to T-augmentation. Interesting to hear your take on that.

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  42. on October 2, 2008 at 11:46 pm TRT

    Is there a way to increase free T, while keeping E and DHT low? I know AI can keep the E in check, and Fina can do the same with DHT, but Finasteride is a competitive blocker. In other words, any increase in T will be accompanied by an increase in DHT.

    Seems like you’re doubly screwed if you suffer from MPB.

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  43. on October 2, 2008 at 11:55 pm David Alexander

    Most men are good at something.

    I suck at everything that I do, and I’d imagine that there are many other men who simply have no redeeming talents.

    Guys in the 1950’s would have laughed at this — who had trouble finding a girlfriend?

    Yeah, but men of the 1950s had much lower standards than modern men. Sure, the obesity numbers have spiked up, but a lot of those 3 and 4 fat girls are only 4 and 5 skinny girls…

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  44. on October 3, 2008 at 12:11 am Lets be honest

    whiskey, referring to my previous comment:

    If that is the case: success with women = high status in life, much power/money, then you are arguing for a “soft” polygamy since by definition only a few men will achieve that.

    I say: Correctamundo. This is a soft polygamy that only a few men are going to achieve.

    Here’s my view: For the last century in America, social status usually comes from money. Money, power, and status = Alphadom. The latter two flow from the first.

    I’ve heard people argue that “power” is the baseline before money. For instance, Robert Greene, in 48 Laws of Power writes something like “Get power and money will find its way to you.” I dont buy this. A lot of people have positions of sizable de facto power in daily life (cops., government bureaucrats) but no money.

    So, I am saying that money usually leads to the latter two. Not every man was born to make big money – true. But we are living in a society that places a very high premium on money. Thats the way the cookie crumbles.

    So Money becomes the holy grail baseline for Alphadom in my book. Its not the whole story. A rich nerd can wield power and have status, I suppose, but can have no “game” and would remain a greater beta, I agree.

    Also – we can’t rule out things like good looks, height, and race.
    A 5’2 fat greasy guy who is rich, has power and status still has an uphill climb compared to a 6 foot good looking WASP with the same probably.

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  45. on October 3, 2008 at 12:19 am dougjnn

    DA 46 —

    I suck at everything that I do, and I’d imagine that there are many other men who simply have no redeeming talents.

    If that’s really true you should indeed be eliminated from the future gene pool. I recoil at government mandated eugenics, but anyone who understands the slightest thing about evolution knows that competitive pruning of the gene pool is essential for maintaining, not to mention improving, the human gene pool. It’s always happened naturally until perhaps not very recently in very rich and very altruistically/safety net minded societies.
    ?
    If that’s really true you should also shut the fuck up since obviously anything you have to say will be misleading at best, and a waste of neural capacity to process.

    It is though rather a puzzle how many people around here find you interesting to talk to once in awhile, if rather nauseating at times as well.

    How do you explain that? You aren’t pulling some elaborate and fairly novel attention getting scam by appearing a lot more desperately unfit than you really are — are you?

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  46. on October 3, 2008 at 12:38 am anony

    to Zylonet,

    -I assume you first ruled out a pituitary adenoma?
    -Did you actually have any symptoms? like anemia, osteoporosis, ED, fatigue, anhedonia, decreased glucose tolerance?
    -Did you try a gym membership before you started T replacement?
    -Are you not concerned about supressed fertility, or testicular atrophy?
    -Have you been hitting on underage girls?, losing your temper frequently?, divorce? or having other psychosocial problems?

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  47. on October 3, 2008 at 12:58 am ATC

    You’ll probably also learn that betas have a high 2D:4D. What are they supposed to do about that? Mine is 1.03, hell yeah I’m a coward.

    I wonder if there’s some website somewhere telling 85 IQ LAISD students that they can really ace 8th-grade algebra, all they need is “math game.”

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  48. on October 3, 2008 at 1:01 am Zylonet

    “Interesting. Would appreciate future comment(s) to elaborate on that point. Steroids strike me as simply a slightly different way to produce very similar results to T-augmentation. Interesting to hear your take on that.”

    There are many different steroids to promote muscle and performance gain. However, for men who are deficient in testosterone or who seek to attain the optimal levels, there are just a few primary options: testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate or Androgel. When taken in therapeutic doses, these compounds are life enhancing. When taken in high doses, these drugs should be considered steroids and will induce negative side effects. Many bodybuilders will use from 500mg to 2,000mg Test Cyp/week as part of training and as part of a larger drug cocktail.

    Often when people hear “steroids” they are thinking of substances that act similarly, but often more directly and more effectly, to the exogenous testosterones listed above. A list of these substances can be found here: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/index.htm

    A big problem in medicine is the confusion of testosterone with other drugs like Winstrol or Deca that have a high capacity for abuse and are therapeutic in only a vary narrow, if any, clinical window. This dichotomy between drug types was too elaborate for Joe Biden to understand when he helped create the current environment of hate towards beneficial drugs like testosterone.

    For anyone looking to receive continued life enhancing effects, the only choices are the primary testosterones and not the “steroids” you will find on the link provided above. I should also mention that many people involved in steroids have gone to tremendous lengths to promote their expertise and to promote the science behind many substances. Anyone thinking of taking these exotic steroids is taking a risk. There is little by way of research to support their safety, wherease the testerones have been unequivocally proven safe. I should also mention that I know many of the people behind this science and I wouldn’t trust them even though they are bright.

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  49. on October 2, 2008 at 9:04 pm dougjnn

    There are types of betas that one can learn much more from observing than others. There are also kinds of alphas that are much more instructive for higher betas or lesser alphas than others. In essence, the kind of beta who should be an alpha with women but isn’t is the most instructive to observe. That was simple, wasn’t it. I’ll elaborate in a moment.

    It’s not quite as simple when flipping the script to look at natural alphas for what they can teach, because there are sorts of bad boy alphas that almost everyone will agree shouldn’t be but are, who very few men wishing to move up in the attractive arts will wish to emulate. They’d have to throw over all they’ve built up and are good at to do it, with very uncertain results. Sociopathic criminals for example. Biker boys. One can learn from their examples by applying the right level of abstraction, but that’s not exactly direct and emotionally compelling. They are not good role models.

    The most instructive alphas are guys who are good enough, in the running, in the overall social status sweepstakes as they apply to a particular social circle / locale, but are not knocking the ball out of the park outstanding. In other words, the best natural alphas for observational purposes are the guys who’s “stats” could leave them as higher betas, but in fact they’re solid alphas.

    H in other words. Whether he was a lesser alpha or higher beta before learning more game and graduating to solid alpha pulling the chicks status, he’s exactly the sort that is most instructive. Brad Pitt is not. Bruce Willis comes closer – he’s really not that handsome, he’s (or was, he’s aging) just incredibly confident. He’s where it’s at. It’s magnetic.

    Sometimes kinda average guys who pull chicks like crazy are actually mondo capable but underperforming goof offs – at least for awhile. The fratire net storyteller and humorist Tucker Max is an example. The guy is actually very, very high IQ. He just loves a jerk off, drunken bar dwelling, savage humorist, male slut persona, or anyway has. He’s milked his male rebellion blog humor fame into being a kind of slut girls’ celebrity. If you’re a girl want to try that side of the fence, or establish some benchmark cred, scaling the Tucker Max “heights” seems to be / have been some sort of THING.

    He’s now making his book into a totally controlled by him indie movie (targeting the American Pie type audience) with wide distribution planned for this spring. He plans to go from there in Hollywood. We’ll see. It could flop and it could score big. It will NOT get rave reviews from the NY Times no matter what, of that we can be sure. But the bar drunk is now in his past, except for nostalgic forays.

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  50. on October 3, 2008 at 1:04 am Bluto

    There’s a drug coming out soon called Androxal; it’s basically a pill that stimulates your pituitary gland to produce luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), both of which stimulate the testicles to produce testosterone and sperm. It does this by blocking the androgen receptor on your pituitary gland, fooling it into thinking that your T-levels are low. It’s essentially like Clomid for men; bodybuilders use Clomid, the female fertility drug, to raise their T after a cycle.

    Apparently, the drug’s development was motivated by the need for something for young men who want to father children. Young men w/ T2 diabetes often have low testosterone levels, and this medication is primarily for them.

    I’m sure this drug, plus rigorous weightlifting, will turn many previous fat-guy betas, into alphas.

    Speaking of which, since we’re talking about testosterone, can someone explain to me how Leonardo DiCaprio pulls in so much hot ass? Gisele Bundchen, Bar Refaeli, hell the guy was linked to Demi Moore years ago (obviously she’s got a thing for man-boys–Ashton Kutcher). I mean, just looking at him, it’s obvious his testosterone levels are nonexistent, yet he pulls them in like James Bond. I guess fame and money are all you need to attract women.

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  51. on October 3, 2008 at 1:08 am Raphael

    Zylonet is very misleading.

    TRT is for hypogonadal males. Going on TRT permanently will shut down your testicles.

    do you cycle zylonet?

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  52. on October 3, 2008 at 1:12 am Zylonet

    “Is there a way to increase free T, while keeping E and DHT low? I know AI can keep the E in check, and Fina can do the same with DHT, but Finasteride is a competitive blocker. In other words, any increase in T will be accompanied by an increase in DHT. Seems like you’re doubly screwed if you suffer from MPB.”

    I don’t have MPB in my family so it is not a concern for me. I started 5-6 years ago and settled on a therapy with my Dr.; I have since forgotten much of the extended research. I think you can find a great deal of info by inquiring on the
    men’s health board at Mesomorphosis:
    http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

    you might also check with John Crisler, D.O. who offers TRT
    http://www.allthingsmale.com

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  53. on October 3, 2008 at 1:34 am Zylonet

    “to Zylonet,

    -I assume you first ruled out a pituitary adenoma?
    -Did you actually have any symptoms? like anemia, osteoporosis, ED, fatigue, anhedonia, decreased glucose tolerance?
    -Did you try a gym membership before you started T replacement?
    -Are you not concerned about supressed fertility, or testicular atrophy?
    -Have you been hitting on underage girls?, losing your temper frequently?, divorce? or having other psychosocial problems?”

    When I fell ill, it was me and the wife against the world. My first indication was a lowering of erectile peformance and general fatigue. I travelled far and wide to consult with acclaimed Dr.s only to find them ineffectual, if not incompetent. Generally speaking the medical profession is so insular to competition, that most Dr.’s are ill prepared to work and research or to answer sophisticated questions. Fortunately, through the blood tests I was able to deduce that my symptoms were likely related to decreasing testosterone. A young Endo was the one who found the cause and everything else was ruled-out.

    Regarding fertility, mine is fine and has remained fine in part because of the HCG which also mitigates testicular atrophy. When I don’t use HCG, I have some shrinkage, but less than 33%.

    As for things like losing temper, I found those to be more symptomatic of low T rather than high-normal T.

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  54. on October 3, 2008 at 1:41 am Zylonet

    “Zylonet is very misleading. TRT is for hypogonadal males. Going on TRT permanently will shut down your testicles. do you cycle zylonet?”

    No, I don’t cycle. There is no need to cycle testosterone when using it as replacement or augmentation therapy which is my chosen course.

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  55. on October 3, 2008 at 1:42 am Elizabeth

    54 Bluto

    Speaking of which, since we’re talking about testosterone, can someone explain to me how Leonardo DiCaprio pulls in so much hot ass?

    He’s a pretty boy. A lot of girls like that. Orlando Bloom is the same way.

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  56. on October 3, 2008 at 2:09 am Eurosabra

    Bear in mind that the only society with a near-Western standard of living to go totally Alpha/Beta bonkers was Yugoslavia, and the result was genocide and rape camps. Dragunovs and T-72s mean a special kind of bad when everything is up for grabs by the bad boys with guns, and in fact the destruction of coastal Croatia showed a social divide: poor rural highland Serbs ruthlessly bombarding prosperous coastal Croatian Dubrovnik, starting with the yachts in the harbor and the chic cars in the hotel parking lots. Of course our society has much more diffuse loci of power and influence, so people (except in Los Angeles, perhaps) are less likely to turn to the gun, and it is more likely that “our” betas are going to be kept down (by the prison-industrial complex at the extreme, by imbrication in society’s “day jobs” in the aggregate) rather than launch The Apocalypse.

    I would suggest the book _Guyland_, which is drawing attention on other blogs, for a quick survey of why young men are getting stuck in juvenalia. In brief, society now extracts the maintenance fee of patriarchy without furnishing the compensatory rewards, since women have–by and large–isolated themselves from that system. Young men, however, are still entrenched in it, especially since to exit is emasculating.

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  57. on October 3, 2008 at 2:17 am Eurosabra

    The other thing that struck me as being exceptionally cruel is that the betas are being punished for CARING, that is, the low-status “tells” like nervousness and excessive obsequiousness could be replaced by a deadpan indifference which would only RAISE their attractiveness. Disabused cynicism or a truly sociopathic flatness/lack of empathy would not be as off-putting as the puppy-dogging “hoping against hope.” The nervousness comes from not getting what one SHOULD BE ABLE TO, and the self-blame, so shifting the nervousness to anger (or Ted Bundy ice) and the blame to where it truly lies should DETACH judgement of the self and hence outcome dependence.

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  58. on October 3, 2008 at 2:25 am virgle Kent

    38, monohechomierda,

    I know you were complimenting me. Thanks. I make jokes all the time though so don’t take anything I say seriously. We’re cool

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  59. on October 3, 2008 at 2:38 am chicnoir

    agnostic said:
    Politeness is another one. Asking her what she wants, holding or watching her things, fetching something she wants, stepping aside to let her pass, etc.

    Oftentimes when a girl is blocking your way, she *wants* you to bump into her. Hell, the 5′1 gymnast in sweatpants or the 5′9 banker chick is hoping you’ll even body-check her Lemmonex knows what I’m talking about.

    Palin is really good at memorization and regurgitation. Sometimes it seems as if she is reading from a teleprompter.

    Are you for real??? There are exceptions to every rule, and I am certainly one here. If some guy purposely bumped into me, I would assume he was trying to attack me or he is some kind of pervert. Some women will mace you, cut you or call the police for such an attack.

    I really need to see what Lemonex has to say about this. I view some strange man body checking me as an assault. Even with a boyfriend, I’m not one for wrestling, play fighting and slapping
    .

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  60. on October 3, 2008 at 2:49 am whiskey

    Very, VERY good points Eurosabra. VERY good.

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  61. on October 3, 2008 at 2:51 am PatrickH

    Zylo:

    Fascinating stuff. Be dropping you a line soon.

    Patrick

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  62. on October 3, 2008 at 2:55 am David Alexander

    Betas play it straight

    That’s funny since I’ve had women say that I was too immature and not serious enough. Ooops.

    Oftentimes when a girl is blocking your way, she *wants* you to bump into her.

    If she’s going to play silly games like that, then maybe I don’t want to deal with her lest I be subjected to other silly games in the future. If she wants a guy who’s willing to bump into her, then I am obviously not the partner for her, and that doesn’t bother me.

    Quite frankly, if women don’t like politeness, then I’m not willing to change and become an impolite person in order to chase pussy. Sex isn’t worth changing myself into someone who is stranger when I look in the mirror.

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  63. on October 3, 2008 at 3:33 am David Alexander

    Bear in mind that the only society with a near-Western standard of living to go totally Alpha/Beta bonkers was Yugoslavia, and the result was genocide and rape camps.

    Isn’t Yugoslavia not an example of betas getting revenge on alphas, but ethnic nationalism and jingoism run amok? The Serbian betas weren’t attacking the Serbian alpha males in revenge, but they were going after Bosnians in order to break the independent state of Bosnia, and annex Serbian portions to Serbia. For all intents and purposes, the Bosnians were just simply in the way for Serbia and Croatia as well.

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  64. on October 3, 2008 at 3:40 am Affe

    LOL on the Yugo stuff – Gavrilo Princip – beta attempts to impress Serb hottie; destroys Europe.

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  65. on October 3, 2008 at 3:46 am Zylonet

    “If she’s going to play silly games like that, then maybe I don’t want to deal with her lest I be subjected to other silly games in the future.”

    Yes, like being tied up and blindfolded by her and a friend only for you to guess who is doing what to you. Silly games. Who needs ’em.

    “Quite frankly, if women don’t like politeness, then I’m not willing to change and become an impolite person in order to chase pussy. Sex isn’t worth changing myself into someone who is stranger when I look in the mirror.”

    If you aren’t willing to change for sex, and implied procreation, then for what do you stand? It seems to me that a man who denies his animal self is deluding himself into a civility that does not exist. I know I have done the same in the past.

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  66. on October 3, 2008 at 4:08 am Eurosabra

    @68 DA

    Generally, local rural thuggery by the bad boys was amplified within (depending on geography, nearness of the border with “The West”, presence/absence of media) a few days, weeks, or months by the armed intervention of the formal, official forces of the Bosnian, Croatian, or JNA militaries. Certainly the Serbs who started the ball rolling in Croatia thought of themselves as an oppressed minority, despite some assimilation into use of the Latin alphabet and other non-religious markers of Croatianity. So the pattern (at least rurally) was the usurpation of power by thugs, who were socio-economic betas, followed by military invasion by Alpha thugs with tanks. Not a rebellion of the betas against their own ethnicities’ Alphas, but a throwing of civilized society to the wolves that made the alpha/beta split the only meaningful dynamic, across ethnic boundaries and within ethnicities. (Meaning ethno-religious communities, really.)

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  67. on October 3, 2008 at 4:19 am Eurosabra

    In _Rubber Bullets_ the Israeli sociologist Yaron Ezrahi analyzes the development of Israeli-Jewish masculinity and the deformation that statism imposed, in the form of military leaders having actual harems and the importance of very intimate closed-door “briefings”. I think he extrapolates a bit too much from the local social forces of the late 1950s/turn of the 60s that drove him to marry an American-Jewish woman, but there is *serious* work being done on culture and masculinity in Arab and Jewish cultures, which is important to the extent that some Islamic societies have softer or harder polygyny. (Indeed, Israel’s ARAB society is explicitly allowed polygyny, unlike every other religious community in the land.)

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  68. on October 3, 2008 at 4:19 am Sara I

    You guys will love this:

    http://www.savethemales.ca/archives-subject.html

    http://www.savethemales.ca/archives-subject.html

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  69. on October 3, 2008 at 12:33 am whiskey

    Let’s Be Honest — If it’s a soft polygamy, you can expect the losers to exact their price upon the winners.

    That is a big change. The Frontier alone guaranteed American men the ability to have wives. Witness say, one Andrew Jackson, orphaned son of mere homesteaders, who won the love of a frontier woman. At the time, he was not much to look at, in terms of money or power, though he took garbage from no one (and never had).

    I’m not concerned if Joe Average can’t pull in Ginger. If he can’t get with Mary Ann, who in turn forms a soft harem with Ginger with say, Mr. Howell, that’s a big problem. No society with widespread polygamy in one sort or another has been stable. And it is a big change.

    Back in the 1930’s – 1960’s, the comic books were filled with ads on how to get girls — Charles Atlas. The skinny guy pumped up and became a tough guy. The idea, that a guy would have to get “Game” to win the girl next door was laughable. He just had to be a decent Joe. THAT has radically changed, and is somewhat what she is getting at — you need “Game” to pull in even the girl next door.

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  70. on October 3, 2008 at 5:13 am Tupac Chopra

    18 Whiskey:

    Most men are good at something. They may not be superstars, with football stadiums watching them and applauding every move, but they are good at things. The problem is that most men are taught to put women on pedestals…

    But what if it’s Clio?

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  71. on October 3, 2008 at 5:16 am Tupac Chopra

    24 Anonymous2:

    This is because most women won’t have their b!tch shields up when a gay man is around. By the time they realized Chris wasn’t gay, he was already in like Flynn (who was an alpha and very effeminate in many ways).

    This is bullshit. Don’t anyone here buy this. You may be “in like Flynn” but you won’t be getting the sucky fucky action in bed.

    Be a man.

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  72. on October 3, 2008 at 5:22 am Tupac Chopra

    31: Zylonet:

    HGH = for women

    And gays, too. At least on Miami Beach. All the fags are here are doped up on it.

    But if the price came down, I’d be in line for it. There are *many* positive effects from HGH that steroids can’t produce.

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  73. on October 3, 2008 at 5:27 am Tupac Chopra

    42 da truth hurts:

    HRT is rather easy to get in many states.

    Noperz. Unless you go below 250-300ng the doctors consider it “normal”. Normal to them is between 300 and *1100*. How fucked up is that?

    Then you have to find “alternative” longevity type clinics where you pay out the nose to get on TRT. It’s not easy. Your best bet is to hop and skip among endo’s until you find a cool one.

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  74. on October 3, 2008 at 5:31 am Tupac Chopra

    45 Patrick:

    Interesting. Would appreciate future comment(s) to elaborate on that point. Steroids strike me as simply a slightly different way to produce very similar results to T-augmentation. Interesting to hear your take on that.

    Surely you jest. Steroids for excessive muscle mass are nothing like HRT for well-being. Night and day. 500mg test per week is good for LBM, but for the fountain of youth much less is required (along with AIs and such).

    Nota bene: once you go on long term TRT, you have to stay on. Your HPTA will get so fucked that if your source runs dry you will be in world of pain…

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  75. on October 3, 2008 at 5:33 am Tupac Chopra

    50 doug contra DA:

    How do you explain that? You aren’t pulling some elaborate and fairly novel attention getting scam by appearing a lot more desperately unfit than you really are — are you?

    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm….maybe!

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  76. on October 3, 2008 at 5:37 am Tupac Chopra

    54 Zylonet:

    A big problem in medicine is the confusion of testosterone with other drugs like Winstrol or Deca that have a high capacity for abuse and are therapeutic in only a vary narrow, if any, clinical window.

    Deca is the bees knees for anyone who suffers from joint issue/arthritis. It’s a connective tissue salve. No joke. It deserves better P.r.

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  77. on October 3, 2008 at 5:38 am Tupac Chopra

    55 Bluto:

    Speaking of which, since we’re talking about testosterone, can someone explain to me how Leonardo DiCaprio pulls in so much hot ass?

    Money changes everything

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  78. on October 3, 2008 at 7:05 am johnny five

    DA strike one:

    That’s funny since I’ve had women say that I was too immature and not serious enough. Ooops.

    silly boy, assuming a correlation between women’s words and women’s thoughts.

    —

    DA strike two:

    I’m not willing to change because I’m not willing to become unhappy and miserable at my core in order to go chase women.

    these are the types of things that make me, along with others, i’m sure, think you are pure schtick.
    if you have any congruence whatsoever with your posts, then you are already unhappy and miserable at your core.
    zero is not less than zero.

    —

    DA strike three:

    Quite frankly, if women don’t like politeness, then I’m not willing to change and become an impolite person in order to chase pussy.

    haven’t you ever heard of the power of contrast?
    if you’re naturally an asshole, then intermittent politeness, applied to a woman with whom you’ve already laid a base coat of assholery, will achieve wonders.
    the key, though, is the “intermittent” part.
    be a slot machine, not a doormat.

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  79. on October 3, 2008 at 4:38 am Tupac Chopra

    Very astute observations. I tip my hat to you for the effort you put in to schooling the betas.

    A few of my own:

    — betas are extremely petty regarding the normal give and take inherent in social negotiation, particularly when it concerns money. Betas tend to be excessively stingy and niggardly (ahem) when it comes to dividing up the bill at a restaurant. When some dude whips out his scientific calculator to compute his “fair share” to the nth decimal point, you know you’ve got a beta. Guys, just throw a fucking 20 (or whatever) on the table and let the shit slide. The rest of your crew will appreciate it. If you’re a starving artist or just lost your job, you get a pass.

    — betas don’t usually possess the leadership abilities of alphas (which is ok in and of itself) but they often express whatever smidgen of self-assertion they have by being a stubborn stick in the mud when their betters (alphas) propose a plan for the group. Betas, if you don’t like the plan your alpha friends have, either come up with a better plan or do your own thing or just SHUT THE FUCK UP. No one likes a whiny crybaby.

    — betas try to be everyone’s friend. Hey, I guess it’s better than being a wallflower, but have some standards for chrissake.

    — betas will pester you with questions about whatever girl you’re working on. Dude, quit stalling and bust a move already.

    — betas wear Dockers. ‘Nuff said.


    Every man growing up should have an alpha male mentor, or at least should be part of a social circle that has at least one alpha male so that he can watch and take mental notes about what works with women. I’ve had a few of those guys in my life and they were indispensable to figuring out what behaviors cause women to respond positively.

    I can’t emphasize this enough. The Community offers many profound insights about Game, but those are really just broad abstractions. There are MANY gaps in between those generalizations. The devil is in the details. Unless you’re an approach machine already, the best thing you can do for yourself is apprentice yourself to a genuine alpha. There is SO much you are missing if you don’t. I happen to be very tight with a couple of dyed in wool alphas and that has done more for me than my study of game. (Although, if you are a total retard you may have to do a little book learnin’ before you even know what to watch for when you hang with the alphas.)

    A caveat: some of the things alphas can get away with are due to their genetic superiority. One of my friends can walk into a bar and literally become the center of attention. Totally outrageous shit. But he can pull that off because he has model good looks (think Chris O’Donnel, but harder) and was a Golden Gloves boxer so he can back his shit up if someone pulls his punk card. If DA tried his tactics he’d get his ass handed to him. BUT… that’s not to say one can’t extract the relevant principles and adjust them to one’s own circumstances.

    Keepin’ it real,

    TC

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  80. on October 3, 2008 at 4:42 am David Alexander

    Yes, like being tied up and blindfolded by her and a friend only for you to guess who is doing what to you. Silly games. Who needs ‘em.

    The average male has a better chance of winning lotto or being struck by lightening than having the game illustrated in your example.

    If you aren’t willing to change for sex, and implied procreation, then for what do you stand? It seems to me that a man who denies his animal self is deluding himself into a civility that does not exist. I know I have done the same in the past.

    I’m not deluding myself. I would be deluding myself if I ever presumed that I could replicate the actions and behaviours of men like Roosh, or T. I am simply a beta male, and they’re alpha males, and to encourage them to replicate my personalities and behaviours is simply ludicrous at best and foolish at worst. I’m not willing to change because I’m not willing to become unhappy and miserable at my core in order to go chase women. I am not immersed in a false world of modern civilization any more than you’re immersed in your faux animalism.

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  81. on October 3, 2008 at 1:00 pm DeusExMachina

    My experiance with TRT was mixed.

    My advise is to find and excellent Dr. that has experiance reading all the numbers on the bloodtest. I found that just judging free test was not the best guage. Not for me anyway.

    If I did it again, I would probably go the injectable route. Androgel did go on very well but I got Testim at a much better price through my medical insurance. It didnt go on as well though.

    End of story was that my test numbers rebounded when I lost weight and got my pre-diabetis in check. There are many factors to consider when boosting test. Medication should be the last thing considered.

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  82. on October 3, 2008 at 1:20 pm ironrailsironweights

    Betas tend to be excessively stingy and niggardly (ahem) when it comes to dividing up the bill at a restaurant. When some dude whips out his scientific calculator to compute his “fair share” to the nth decimal point, you know you’ve got a beta.

    Anyone who’s worked in a restaurant will say that this excessive anal-ity over dividing bills is commonly associated with groups of women. If Betas are doing so as well, they’re actually displaying a female characteristic. Interesting.

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  83. on October 3, 2008 at 2:46 pm Christopher Tracy

    84 Mu’ Min

    My mom and my dad split up when I was a baby and I’ve mostly been raised by my grandparents.

    My grandpa and I have never really talked about women, and I guess this obviously led to my Omega male qualities. Even my beta friends have had an easier time out on the field than I have had because they grew up in homes with a stronger male figure.

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  84. on October 3, 2008 at 3:00 pm PatrickH

    …he was already in like Flynn (who was an alpha and very effeminate in many ways).

    Errol Flynn was one tough man. He could handle himself very well in the fisticuffs dep’t. His “effeminacy” was more of the dandy type, not in any way faggoticious. The dandy who can whip ass is an archetypal character (Pimpernel on the good side; the immortal Archie Cunningham from the Rob Roy movie played by Tim Roth on the very very bad; many others in film and lit, all hugely entertaining and fascinating to both sexes). “In Like Flynn” meant exactly that you were getting the fucky sucky action in the bed. Lots of it.

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  85. on October 3, 2008 at 3:05 pm PatrickH

    Tupac, in tones of quasi-amazed ironicality:

    Surely you jest. Steroids for excessive muscle mass are nothing like HRT for well-being. Night and day. 500mg test per week is good for LBM, but for the fountain of youth much less is required (along with AIs and such).

    Steroid use can produce the same feelings of well-being, energy, libido enhancement, as T. Some roids are better than others for this purpose: Haloteston, e.g. The classic roid Dianabol has benefits in this area too. Others. Anabolic/androgenic steroids (AAS: the official name), are after all, androgens, and act like them.

    Rest is true. T at 75 mg/wk can be a more effective mood lifter than SSRIs, acts quicker, and has far fewer long-term side effects than Prozac, Effexor et al. I find it interesting that in our age, which loathes T and everything it stands for, T is not more often prescribed as an anti-depressant.

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  86. on October 3, 2008 at 3:08 pm Misanthrope

    #85/Strike 2:

    Changing your core to be happy with yourself and your values is good, and all positive.

    Changing your core to get a piece of vagina is bitchmade and shows exactly how much power you let women have over you.

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  87. on October 3, 2008 at 3:14 pm PatrickH

    Siding massively with Tupac C 82:

    Deca is the bees knees for anyone who suffers from joint issue/arthritis. It’s a connective tissue salve. No joke. It deserves better P.r.

    Deca-durabolin can be a godsend to the aging athlete, the injured athlete, and anyone suffering from joint problems. Many of the “miraculous” recoveries from injury we’ve heard about (a Canadian rower named Silken Laumann made such a recovery after nearly getting her leg sliced off in a rowing accident: silver medal only a few months later. Am I saying she Deca’d? No. No proof as usual. But that’s the kind of focused, ultra-fast healing Deca can provide.)

    Deca should be part of the pharmaceutical armory of every athlete whose sport pounds and grinds him. Pro teams should be allowed to use Deca to enable athletes to perform at a high level throughout the season.

    But again, irrational prejudice against enhancement prevents this from occurring.

    Oddly, Deca (official: nandrolone decanoate) is unlike other roids in that it tends to produce loss of libido, depression in users. Deca shouldn’t be used by itself, but in combo with a roid that does elevate mood. Classic combo: Deca and Dianabol. AKA “the breakfast of champions”. Also with Proviron, a roid that doesn’t build muscle, but prevents estrogenizing, and “supports energy and mood”.

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  88. on October 3, 2008 at 3:19 pm PatrickH

    Tupac, winging along in familiar blue-skies:

    The problem is that most men are taught to put women on pedestals…

    But what if it’s Clio?

    So that’s where she is! Damn! I’ve been looking all over for her! And the whole time she’s been hanging around up on that goddamned pedestal! No wonder I haven’t been able to find her!

    Eyes uuup, Patrick. That’s the ticket. Look up up up, smile and wave. That’s how you deal with Muses.

    Why look, she’s waving back! It’s working!

    Thanks, Tupe. Love you.

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  89. on October 3, 2008 at 3:39 pm Eurosabra

    @89 Let’s be honest

    It is not the infidelity of the Alphas that brings the society to chaos, but the inability of Betas to obtain ANY women in monogamous marriage that causes them to generate chaos. The perfect test-case for that is Algeria, which has rampant poverty and oil wealth, polygyny and arranged marriage, so marriage is an economic institution with high barriers to entry. The hoarding of oil money by the elite meant that economic development was denied to other sectors, so besides a few (cheap) intellectuals, the labor and service sectors were standing around unemployed or running in place just to make a starvation wage. The social dynamics above meant woman-hoarding. The result, besides the Berber Spring, which was largely positive before it was crushed, was the longest-running, most-destructive, and deadliest Islamist insurgency outside Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Before you think this can’t happen in a Western society, look at France and read a little Michel Houellebecque. Unlike Douglas Coupland’s _Microserfs_, the characters of H’s _Whatever_ (fr. title L’extension du domaine de la lutte) are French and quite eager for sex, and they recognize and resent the displacement of pair-bonding by economic social-climbing. “If we show our hairy legs, it’s not to seduce you!” Outside the realm of fiction, there is ample evidence that young men are “tuning out.”

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  90. on October 3, 2008 at 3:45 pm Eurosabra

    @89

    Lack of social unrest like the Jacqueries, the Bauernkriege, etc?
    For God’s sake, the aristocracy was a trained militia to keep the peasants down above all else, and peasant revolts were frequent and bloody. And what was the Albigensian Crusade but an attempt to pound the Southern French back into your stable social order by pure genocide? You can say “Yes, but” but please don’t dismiss history.

    And in the end, it was rising labor costs–paying the fewer remaining free betas better after the Black Death–that played one role in Europe’s upswing.

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  91. on October 3, 2008 at 11:46 am Lets Be Honest

    Whiskey says:

    1 – “I’m not concerned if Joe Average can’t pull in Ginger. If he can’t get with Mary Ann, who in turn forms a soft harem with Ginger with say, Mr. Howell, that’s a big problem. No society with widespread polygamy in one sort or another has been stable. And it is a big change.

    2 – Back in the 1930’s – 1960’s,… The idea, that a guy would have to get “Game” to win the girl next door was laughable. He just had to be a decent Joe. THAT has radically changed, and is somewhat what she is getting at — you need “Game” to pull in even the girl next door.”

    I say :

    2 excellent points. I’ll respond, and I may sound blunt and crude, but I’m trying to talk candidly.

    As to 1) You’re right that widespread polygamy may be a problem. But there is larger issue for Western Civilization, and, especially for European derived men who may be concerned about it – Christian monogamy is arguably a factor in IQ dysgenics, the propagation of the weak. Christian monogamy does not lend itself to maintaining a fit, virile race.

    You’re concerned about what happens in a society when Joe Average can’t pull in Ginger. The weaker masses may get pissed. Well, it depends on what they can actually do about it. In aristocracies and other societies based more on the “Fit” and the “Unfit”, men were bound by *law* to do and not do certain things. The entire hierarchy was codified through law, and, by social norms. If an entire society endorses the idea of a polygamy for the fit – much harder for masses to cause social unrest.

    Only be worried about a weak man when the weak man can actually retaliate against you.

    2) You need “game” just to pull girls in the door. To a certain degree. But what women really want in this ridiculous society we live in that completely favors the woman, this society that is really a hypergamous paradise for women as Roger Devlin argues – what women really want is the current Alpha man at the top of the hierarchy. If he is Alpha enough, they will basically do anal at hello.

    If you have enough money, power, status – you’re there. You probably need to have some kind of charisma. But a guy who has risen to the top of the male hierarchy probably has that type of mojo already. Failing to learn “game” is not going to break him. Women are such whores – I’m speaking generally – that if you have enough M,P,S – they will drop their pants in two seconds.

    Another commenter contested my comment earlier that money, power, status is not enough, you need massive amounts of “game”, citing “World Leaders Have No Game.” But she appears to have said that, for such guys, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER THEY HAVE GAME. They are already at the pinnacle of power. So they have enormous amounts of leeway to stumble, bumble, and gush over Sarah Palin. Their transgressions will fall by the wayside.

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  92. on October 3, 2008 at 3:54 pm Lets Be Honest

    Eurosabra –

    If aristocracies were so unstable – how do you explain the fact that aristocracies lasted for hundreds of years in Europe?

    Of course you are going to have uprisings – every society uses military force of some type (militia) to stop them.

    These historical exceptions don’t make the rule. There was much more peace than not.

    If polygamy is so “unnatural” than why do we see it in certain Arab cultures?

    If polygamy is so “unnatural” than why have we seen it going back to biblical times?

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  93. on October 3, 2008 at 4:28 pm Mu'Min

    Eurosabra 97 & 98,
    EXCELLENT points wrt Algeria, and we can say, by extension, the better part of Africa, Caribbean, and Middle East. Polygamy, as LBH notes, is a very old practice, and quite possibly a “natural” one, but it is not stable and definitely not safe. I think more forethought needs to be given to the assumptions many make about Game in this regard.

    Salaam
    Mu

    PS: if Whiskey is reading along, could you please give a few examples of how the low level Misogyny among disgruntled Betas may look like?

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  94. on October 3, 2008 at 4:28 pm Lets Be Honest

    @97, 98

    You misrepresent the nature of aristocracy. It was not the strong brutually holding down the weak. Rather the weak had a “social contract” of sorts with the strong – the weak deferred voluntarily often in return for protection and patronage of strong.

    Uprisings will always occur, but are not norm in the history I speak of. The onset of democracy was due to increasing power of capitalism and bourgeosie. Also, history appears to run in flux, as Durant and Spengler argue, aristocracy, democracy, monarchy, etc.

    Does not address the “naturalness” and wisdom of polygamy however.

    Algeria NOT a perfect test case for a potential polygamous society. Vastly different from what we’re talking about – potential polygamy in U.S.

    The U.S. is a long running first world supereconomy. We are at a point, ws we see with this financial bailout, the are heading towards a capitalist soft socialism, where the government is going to be subsidizing vast areas of American life.

    The blow between rich and poor will hurt less. Less resentment by masses.

    Many reasons why young men are tuning out. Making sure every man has a woman is not the answer.

    Nor is it the way to maintain a fit, virile race.

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  95. on October 3, 2008 at 4:53 pm Mu'Min

    LBH,
    I don’t know if the current events and stats, to ay nothing of Whiskey’s analysis, tallies w/your views.

    Moreover, the status the USA currently enjoys and has enjoyed historically, again as Whiskey points out, is BECAUSE of Mongamy, informed largerly by Christian views, not in spite of it. In light of these truths, I should like very much to hear what you have to say in response.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  96. on October 3, 2008 at 1:53 pm Lets Be Honest

    Eurosabra – when you say: “Bear in mind that the only society with a near-Western standard of living to go totally Alpha/Beta bonkers was Yugoslavia, and the result was genocide and rape camps”

    This is not proof that a society that endorses polygamy for Alphas and greater Betas is doomed. You might want to get a larger historical perspective.

    As I said before, European aristocracies historically enshrined the hierarchy of “strong” and “weak” in law. Further, social norms also endorsed the social order. People accepted that “this is the way it is,” – and social unrest was not an issue.

    It’s easy to assume that a polygamous society favoring Alphas, is undoable in Western society.

    But that is only because Christianity has informed so much of Western Civilization. Along with the practice of monogamy.

    We can’t imagine anything else. But we should probably revisit these assumptions.

    In the meantime, a good first step is to start spreading the masculine attitude of the 1950’s, where it was more or less understood by everyone that Alpha married men were going to dabble with girlfriends, mistresses.

    As she says elsewhere, it’s completely ludicrous to expect an Alpha to take on the burden of marriage and not have affairs, or mistresses – to give up the “dangerous plaything” of women, as Nietzsche called them

    The next time we hear about an Alpha public figure “cheating on his wife,” the commentariat should start saying, “Well, let’s put it in context. Is this really a big deal in the whole scheme of things?’ Etc.

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  97. on October 3, 2008 at 6:33 pm Eurosabra

    I would also add that the problem is of “rising expectations”, meaning you have to look at the achievement levels of local alphas, but might get discouraged. Whiskey makes this point with regard to NYC, which is why oddly the feminist approach of considering women as individuals can pay off in places like LA: you don’t pull club chicks night after night like Mystery? Do day game and get them one-by-one-by-one.

    You still have to have Game, however, which is a sticking point for many men.

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  98. on October 3, 2008 at 6:57 pm zorgon

    When some dude whips out his scientific calculator to compute his “fair share” to the nth decimal point, you know you’ve got a beta.

    There is no more pathetic sight on the planet than a bunch of software engineers trying to split a bill.

    With the marketing guys, they would just throw 15 credit cards in the middle of the table and expect the waiters to sort it out.

    The software engineers… oh, man. I would put in my share right away, and then sometimes sit there waiting 5 or 10 *minutes* for them to resolve their argument about who needs to put in/take out what.

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  99. on October 3, 2008 at 7:11 pm dougjnn

    Zorgon 105 —

    You can get in some alpha practice by laying down the law on how the bill is going to be split. Of course the way to do that is semi jokingly, with insult threat.

    As in

    if you assholes want me to join you know that I cannot deal with loser bill squabbling. If I’m involved it’s going to be an even split I don’t care HOW uneven the beer or prime rib intake was. If one of you wants to man up and pay MORE cause you know you’re an unreal glutton, fine, but THAT’s it. You can compete to overpay period. Or we can just go with simple and be done with it. Got it cheapskates??? 😉

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  100. on October 3, 2008 at 6:27 pm David Alexander

    but the impression you gave me was that y’all don’t talk about women or sex or even loving a woman AT ALL

    To be honest, we don’t really talk about stuff, and it’s primarily due to my choice to avoid doing so. For some of us, we’re just too uptight to want to discuss our sex lives with out parents, and some of us would prefer to have the details of their past lives sealed away to preserve our positive mental images of our parents.

    I’d also add that my parents still think that I’m a virgin, but my dad suspects that I lost it already. I quite frankly would prefer that they not know about the entire situation with the older Canadian woman as it was certainly a lapse in judgment on my part and a sign of massive idiocy. Mind you, they like the rest of my family begs me to go out and look for a girlfriend which I’ve shown much resistance to on my part.

    silly boy, assuming a correlation between women’s words and women’s thoughts.

    Much of the immature and not serious comments came from the same woman who called me a beta and de facto called me a loser, so I’m willing to believe in the truthfulness of her comments.

    if you have any congruence whatsoever with your posts, then you are already unhappy and miserable at your core.

    Actually, much of the shock and awe of realizing that one is locked out of the market is dissipating, and right now I’m in a mood of contemplation and acceptance. I’d argue much of unhappiness and misery is from not having a college degree and good job, and the social isolation that the situation creates.

    haven’t you ever heard of the power of contrast?

    David Alexander is not willing to become an asshole. Case closed.

    a good first step is to start spreading the masculine attitude of the 1950’s, where it was more or less understood by everyone that Alpha married men were going to dabble with girlfriends, mistresses.

    A 1950s married alpha male with several mistresses and girlfriends is no different than him dating 5 women at the same time. The married alpha male and H have effectively locked up multiple women from general pool, and it’s highly likely that they’ve taken the best looking women from the pool as well.

    by extension, the better part of Africa, Caribbean, and Middle East.

    From what I’ve been told by the older folks in Haiti, a lot of girls ended up becoming unmarried single moms or mistresses because it was the only way to avoid starvation for themselves AND their families. A number of women would hook up with guys to avoid starving to death, and they’d end up becoming pregnant due to the lack of birth control which made them even more dependent on men for their survival.

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  101. on October 4, 2008 at 12:17 am Anton

    Good post.

    The true defining beta behavior?

    Sunglasses (anywhere but in bright sun): alphas make eye contact.

    LikeLike


  102. on October 4, 2008 at 12:21 am anony

    to Joel #107
    With habituation to paid sex, damages men.

    They develop unrealistic sense of pleasing a genuine partner.
    They need incremental frequency/intensity/variety to become aroused. They lose the capacity to read genuine pleasure/annoyance in a non- paid woman.

    The same is seen with porn addicted men.

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  103. on October 4, 2008 at 1:39 am chicnoir

    whiskey saidI’m not concerned if Joe Average can’t pull in Ginger. If he can’t get with Mary Ann, who in turn forms a soft harem with Ginger with say, Mr. Howell, that’s a big problem. No society with widespread polygamy in one sort or another has been stable. And it is a big change.

    the average man should not set his hopes to high.

    Jennifer Anniston or SJP for the average man.

    LikeLike


  104. on October 4, 2008 at 12:03 am joel

    Great post on beta behavior. He seems like he has been looking right at me!

    My only reaction is just to quote Shakespeare:

    How all occasions inform against me!

    The bottom line on betas is that they are intimidated by women, don’t really know what women want, and are afraid of rejection. And, despite this, they still want women! So, they try to be Mr. Nice, often with deplorable results.

    Well, given the overall picture, it seems to me that one course of action for a beta is just to buy quality time with excellent women (This can be expensive, as you might anticipate.). I have done this. I am not talking street prostitutes or massage parlors.

    After enjoying such women for a time, and getting to know them a bit, I have found that that I am just not intimidated or even very impressed by most women I meet. How could they compare to the beautiful women I have been spending my time with? The idea of spending a lot of time chasing after a woman seems almost laughable when you can have a very satisfying experience on a convenient schedule by simply laying out some cash. After all, us betas often have busy professional and personal lives and just can’t spend time cruising clubs. And putting up with the small talk of a woman is the last thing many men, especially nerdy betas, will have time for. Most women are lousy conversationalists.

    Anyway, if you want to get rid of your shyness with women, that’s one way to do it.

    And, it can improve your “game” if you wish. For example, I have no problem now going negative on almost any woman, since, by comparison, most women you meet are not going to be as attractive as a good pro. As another benefit, I am infinitely more at ease around attractive women now, just because I am used to them.

    My attitude has become “Women and sex? Bah. Take or leave it. No matter. It’s just something you buy and sell.”

    This is the beginning of an alpha consciousness.

    So, just as you don’t mind spending some cash for an excellent meal in a restaurant, don’t feel too badly about spending some cash for an excellent woman. I mean, home cooking is nice and all, but a four star restaurant experience is in a different category.

    But, a good experience won’t be cheap. So, betas, get to work and make some bucks. There is a lot of fun waiting out there if you know how to spend your money wisely.

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  105. on October 4, 2008 at 8:08 am Mu'Min

    Joel 107,
    Wiser words I don’t think could have been spoken. For the vast majority of men, something like 99% of us, we WILL pay, one way, or another, sooner, or later. We all know this. And so do women.

    To whom your words apply, they should take heed…and start bucking for overtime at the gig.

    Salaam
    Mu

    LikeLike


  106. on October 4, 2008 at 3:48 pm D. Ray Morton

    Great post, Joel.

    @110

    “the average man should not set his hopes to high.

    Jennifer Anniston or SJP for the average man.”

    Ouch. Down swingeth the gavel! Jennifer Aniston? Sarah Jessica Parker? Any chance for parole?

    LikeLike


  107. on October 5, 2008 at 1:02 pm joel

    Just to add one more thing to my post about betas spending to spend time with beautiful women.

    It is somewhat surprising, and disappointing, to find that beautiful women are no different from plain women once you look under the hood. I am not here comparing beauties to women with severe cosmetic problems (eg. severe acne, a huge nose, obesity), but to women who are “just average.” They basically have the same personalities, with all the virtues and vices of their gender. The fun of the companionship of a woman bears little relationship to her outward beauty once you get to know her. Yes, personality does count, even when you are paying cash.

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