Here is a quick and effective one-liner/neg to toss out that will instantly raise your value with the girl you like. It’s easy to remember, versatile, and virtually betaproof.
“I’m surprised you’re [wearing those shoes].”
You can fill in the brackets with anything you notice about her. For example:
“I’m surprised you’re [wearing that color scarf].”
Naturally, the girl will follow up indignantly with something like:
“Why? What do you mean?!”
You’ll want to calibrate the sting of your reply to her beauty. If she’s an 8 or above, go harsh:
“Your colors don’t match. Unless that was the look you were going for.”
If she’s lower than an 8, soften the edges:
“Oh, nothing. It’s a unique choice. It takes some courage to pull that off.”
Occasionally, you’ll come across a girl who will challenge your rude observation with a response like this:
“Yeah, well, I love these shoes. I’m surprised you notice stuff like that.”
If she gives you flak, don’t sweat it. You’re in! A testy girl is an intrigued girl. You’ve nudged her out of the indifferent zone into the shit test zone. Consider this a troop advancement.
“go harsh: “Your colors don’t match.”
now that’s what I call mature,
that’s what I call a pimp,
that’s what I call a gangsta!
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my favorite:
Him/Her: “I’m surprised to see you in {precious fur}
Me: “If this surprises you, I’ll show you my shirred scarlet beaver, or my Norwegian mink, or my 3/4 length red fox.”
Seriously, men who notice the details are too metro.
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“Consider this a troop advancement.”
Now go for her flanks
a deep penetration behind her lines
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I’ll show you my shirred scarlet beaver
Is that what the kids call it these days?
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Seriously, men who notice the details are too metro.
seriously, men who notice the details as part of running game get into girls’ panties.
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I’ll show you my shirred scarlet beaver
Peter was about to say “whew! I thought you said ‘shaved’ “
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Him: “Oh, I’ll be seeing your beaver all right.”
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“seriously, men who notice the details as part of running game get into girls’ panties.”
ahh Roissy you’re so right.
Ha ha I love reading this blog in the mornings
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“Seriously, men who notice the details are too metro.”
Seriously, men who don’t, rarely get girls.
Side note:
I still don’t even really know what “metro” is.
– MPM
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solid blog post.
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I agree that you need to tailor this to the girl, but I’d stay away from dropping this on the best looking girls, unless they really are wearing something that looks ugly. I’d say this works on girls in the 7 range. They’re cute and begging for affirmation, but without the absolute confidence in themselves better looking girls have — it’s easy to take them down a notch and play self-esteem games with them. You’ll instantly boost your status and scoring chances. Girls in the 8.5+ range are already obsessive about fashion and their appearance. You’re likely to make yourself look like an idiot getting into a fashion fight about something, unless you’re gay, you are likely to know far less about than the girl. Probably works better on American girls in the 8.5+ range than on European girls, given the formers’ relative lack of sophistication and knowledge in the way they dress.
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I still don’t even really know what “metro” is.
Metrosexual. A word that came out around 2002 to describe heterosexual men who have gay men’s sensibilities with regards to fashion, style, culture, etc.
Typically thought of as effette, snobby, hipsterish, and usually urban. Heavy overlap with SWPL.
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Definitely metro. May the Gods send a herd of rabid lesbians to tear off my balls if I’m ever caught using one of these.
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I’m surprised you weren’t mentioned in this article.
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Not bad — kind of retro, but solid.
Let me share something with y’all from Tupac’s Trick Bag:
The next time the girl you are working on is showing you photos of herself and her life, wait until she shows you a medicore picture of herself. Nothing *too* bad, but one that is definitely not her best.
Pick up the picture, look at it closely, turn to look at her as if you’re studying her face, look back at the picture, and then with a deadpan face, say:
“You photograph *really* well, you know that?”
Then just get back to looking at the rest of the pictures as if nothing happened.
I call this one the Silent Death Touch.
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Look at this photo, with the Mussolini pose. Even the National Review thinks this man is PURE ALPHA.
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If you are the type that notices girls clothing…you are simply a FAG. Period.
This is all you need to know about women:
http://www.amazon.com/Machiavellians-Guide-Womanizing-Nick-Casanova/dp/0785810749
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F: I dont know you.
M: I dont know you very well, either. Do I let it bother me?
F: I’m having my period.
M: That’s great! This is the one time of the month you dont need any protection.
F: I’m not in the mood.
M; Let me lick you for two minutes, then tell me you’re not in the mood.
F: You’re not just not my type.
M: Close your eyes and pretend it’s someone else.
F: But it’s our first date.
M: Dont think of it as our first date. Think of it as our last date.
F: We have such a beautiful friendship, I dont want to ruin it this way.
M: Are you kidding? This will make it deeper and more meaningful!
F: But I have a boyfriend.
M; Dont worry. I wasnt planning on telling him.
And the author even added, “There is almost no insurmountable excuse for withholding the booty.”
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Or at the very least pure fascist.
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will the day come when being the first to shit test becomes a beta move? i’ve already overheard guys using PUA terminology “out in the field” when i’ve been downtown, ever since that damn reality show with Mystery on it. girls must be catching onto that generic bullshit opener bit where you ask 3 girls you don’t know some absurd question…..
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Even the National Review thinks this man is PURE ALPHA
Two quick points:
1) with the notable exceptions of Andy McCarthy and the now sadly-deteriorating John Derbyshire, just about everyone man there is a weakling beta.
It’s not for nothing that Ann Coulter called them “girly boys” when they had a collective pantie-piddle in response to her Charles-Martel-worthy post-9/11 column.
2) it’s strange how NR is showing Obama craning his neck up. That’s no Alpha stance. The first thing they teach you in Army basic ttraiing is alpha body language. Of course, they don’t call it that. They call it “military bearing.” Same thing.
Nevertheless, in the basic positions of Attention and Parade Rest, you keep your head and eyes level, not craned up.
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PA, it’s a pose popularized by Mussolini. he used to use it all the time. National Review putting it into a propaganda poster graphic is a subtle way of calling Obama a fascist:
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Thanks! I’m learning something new every day.
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That NR cover doesn’t suggest he’s alpha, it suggests he’s haughty.
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“girls must be catching onto that generic bullshit opener bit where you ask 3 girls you don’t know some absurd question”
I have always held in little regard the canned “opinion opener”. (And I hate the glittery Ed Hardy shirts favored by Pick Up Artists as well, but that is another story).
Using a natural or free flowing opinion opener is a much better way to do it.
A lot of Pick up Artist techniques are two rigid and lack flow.
True G’s are more free flowing and organic.
Its just like Martial Arts.
Bruce Lee said it best:
“Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water.
Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow or it can crash.
Be water, my friend.”
– MPM
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PA, I’d love to take more credit for knowing that, but truth be told I only discovered that fun fact from the comments section on this blog a few weeks ago!
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I’ll show you my shirred scarlet beaver
Peter was about to say “whew! I thought you said ’shaved’ “
Tragically, shaved has become the default position today :((((
Peter
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Speaking of shaving, here is a fine photo spread (NSFW, duh) of a gorgeous 19-year-old who proudly sports a GNP. Enjoy!
Peter
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PA
I’ll show you my shirred scarlet beaver
Peter was about to say “whew! I thought you said ’shaved’ “
LOL
Obama has not taken the oath yet, give Obama time before you call him a screw up.
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Why give Obama time? He is after all a screw-up, his coalition is fighting, the Rezko corrupt crowd vs. his buddies the Ayers-Wright folks who want a concentration camp for un-cool people. Obama’s like a Dead Kennedy’s song come to life (California Uber Alles).
Gender issue: The more Obama preens and poses and the Media and women worship him, the greater risk he runs of male jealousy and hatred. Caesar, Joseph Smith, Douglas MacArthur, Leonardo DiCaprio, George Clooney, Russell Brand all felt varying degrees of male jealousy as they preened as an idol/rockstar.
Men don’t like other men who prance around too much being worshiped. Bush’s genius was hiding his Aristo upper class background behind a fake good-old-boy facade.
For a pick-up line, I would say it depends on the guy as much as the girl. The “I’m surprised” bit might taken to opinions about sports, weather, predicted economy, things like that where you can take an opposite tack to her own viewpoint but not on things like politics or religion. You demonstrate independence and contrariness, but nothing relating to her core opinions. Comments on clothes most men just can’t get right. Russell Brand plays “gay” but that works only for his celebrity stuff. Most guys could not pull that off or want to.
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Re: Metrosexuals
“Typically thought of as effette, snobby, hipsterish, and usually urban. Heavy overlap with SWPL.”
First off, MPM I would assume knows what the term means, but being a man of style, he probably doesnt respect how its been used in common exchanges.
Second, I disagree with your description. Hipsters are not the same as metrosexuals. They might be overly concerned with fashion or their appearance, but by and large they are a different group. “Metros” are more about nice clothes, have high disposable incomes, gelled hair, fake bake, etc. Hipsters are much more likely to wear thrift store clothes, be poor, and if they do care excessively about their appearance, its in a manner to make it look like they dont. I would disagree that there is much overlap with the SWPL set. Think David Beckham.
Also, regarding MPM’s comments about canned routines, and his relating Game to Bruce Lee’s martial arts philosophy: Spot On, G.
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Whiskey saidBush’s genius was hiding his Aristo upper class background behind a fake good-old-boy facade
You got that right, even in key areas of decision making he hid his high iq good-ole-boy-facade. He is part of the reason we are in such big shit.
Be honest, even if Obama’s presidency became the most successful of any president, you will still find something to complain about.
Men don’t like other men who prance around too much being worshiped
Whiskey I buy this hook line and sinker. I’ve listen to men hate on other men for the most trifling of reasons. At the end of the day, the men being hated on were the most desired by women.
There was a guy in my high school who had no (maybe 1) male friends because all of the guys were jealous of him. The reason, girls would throw their panties at him* as he passed by. He didn’t need game, for some reason all and I mean all of the girls wanted him. IINM, I think he was very very “talented”(tongue and all) word got out & every girl wanted her the experience.
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@Rick- some Hispsters pay big money to get the poor look. Check out designer Alexander Wang’s line.
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The Geico “caveman” commercials brilliantly capture the metrosexual look and mannerisms.
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Dagny:
F: I dont know you.
M: I dont know you very well, either. Do I let it bother me?
F: I’m having my period.
M: That’s great! This is the one time of the month you dont need any protection.
F: I’m not in the mood.
M; Let me lick you for two minutes, then tell me you’re not in the mood.
F: You’re not just not my type.
M: Close your eyes and pretend it’s someone else.
Needy, needy, needy.
Are you, Fagny, a man or a woman?
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Peter:
Speaking of shaving, here is a fine photo spread (NSFW, duh) of a gorgeous 19-year-old who proudly sports a GNP. Enjoy!
I would never have thought of that as a GNP. I find that amount of hair acceptable (assuming the chick is hot of course). I always thought GNP = 70’s ‘fro.
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This should be great for starting a discussion:
Kay Hymowitz from City Journal discusses PUAs and the state of marriage in a new article
http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_4_darwinist_dating.html
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Dagny knows all about faggotry. I taught him everything he knows. It’s a wonder he can stand up without the shit slidin’ out. Ah, memories.
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chic: Whiskey I buy this hook line and sinker. I’ve listen to men hate on other men for the most trifling of reasons. At the end of the day, the men being hated on were the most desired by women.
On the other hand, men completely lose their hatred/sexual envy if they befriend the guy and find out that he’s cool. Women *never* drop their resentments and will talk envious venom about their hot friends behind their back.
@Rick- some Hispsters pay big money to get the poor look. Check out designer Alexander Wang’s line.
If they do, it never *actually* looks poor. Muggers that would just walk past me would not fail to stop for the hipster.
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“Men don’t like other men who prance around too much being worshiped”
Especially not WASP men. Italian and Spanish men hate it when other men do it but tend not to find it so philosophically objectionable. If Obama paves the way for other minority politicians it will be by acting as WASPY as possible
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Hey T, you stole the link from anynomous! Give it back!
That must be the best article on game ever written by a woman, though. Especially good on why you never want to go on “dates”.
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Kay Hymowitz is one of my favorite writers.
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Oops, you’re right! Didn’t notice.
What makes it really good is that the one she wrote before it that started it all was one of the WORST and was a 180 degree turn. It was so bad that it spurred a lot of backlash from PUAs and men’s right advocates, etc. to the point where it seemed she had to admit they had some valid points. Pretty big of her to adjust her original viewpoint some.
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Women *never* drop their resentments
If that’s normal behaviour, then you’ve presented me with another reason to avoid dealing with women sexually. Non-date girlfriend’s desire for vengence is rather frightening, and it’s one of the reasons that I’d never give her my address, lest I find four slashed tires or a Saturn covered in egg.
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jaakeli saidIf they do, it never *actually* looks poor. Muggers that would just walk past me would not fail to stop for the hipster
Women make it look quasi expensive by carrying an upscale handbag.
<a http://www.style.com/fashionshows/complete/F2008RTW-AWANG
here^^^ is the alexander wang show, you can see for yourself.
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Jakaali, could you toss padma Lakshmi from your bed?
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“He didn’t need game, for some reason all and I mean all of the girls wanted him. IINM, I think he was very very “talented”(tongue and all) word got out & every girl wanted her the experience.”
The same thing happened to Ron Jeremy in HS. But as a porn afficionado you’d know that 🙂
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Rain and
You mentioned that 60-year-old women are no longer attractive as women. Iman must be an exception
<a http://www.hintmag.com/jetsetera/goddess/davidbowie_iman.jpg
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“He didn’t need game, for some reason all and I mean all of the girls wanted him. IINM, I think he was very very “talented”(tongue and all) word got out & every girl wanted her the experience.”
The same thing happened to Ron Jeremy in HS. But as a porn afficionado you’d know that
Well I’m not an aficionado really. I just think it’s truly the safest form. I go thru so much of it just to find something that is pleasing for me. The rough stuff & necklaces etc.. are not for me.
FYI, Ron was once a teacher;)
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T.:
What makes it really good is that the one she wrote before it that started it all was one of the WORST and was a 180 degree turn.
I first heard of her when she was interviewed on NPR for the article. I remember thinking some of us in this loose-knit community need to set her straight. I’m glad it happened.
It was so bad that it spurred a lot of backlash from PUAs and men’s right advocates, etc. to the point where it seemed she had to admit they had some valid points.
She reminds me of Clio in this respect. Perhaps Clio could explain to me the Edith Wharton reference, I didn’t get it. I’m not smrt like her…
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A woman’s view of the dating situation in this country
<a http://jezebel.com/5091424/you-cant-figure-out-women-you-can-just-try-to-figure-out-one-woman-at-a-time
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Once again, no coverage here of PUA II on VH1. Is Roissy’s living situation really so lame that he’s unable to watch shows on basic cable?
Then again, his ignorance of basic TSA rules about carry-on liquids suggests that he has to dissemble and bluff his way to simulating even middling status.
FWIW, I wish Mystery had kicked out the pretty boy instead of the shrimpy, weak-chinned guy since having a wimpy-looking winner more convincingly validates his theories.
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chic – as expected, that jezebel article was clueless. The only site I hate more than jezebel is racialicious.com.
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chic,
Good article though, at least these days, I sympathize with guys who try to get sex via weepy chicks. There’s no way an average dude can approach a woman in the sex-drenched way that a charismatic one can and expect to get laid. OTOH, so-called “nice guys” are as she says often just neurotic and passive aggressive rather than genuinely thoughtful. Such “nice guys” have co-opted the term the way fat chicks hijacked “voluptuous”.
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Guys who have popularity do so because they form patronage/teaching networks. The highest form PUA can have lots of male friends as long as he does two things: teaches guys how to get women, and lay off the intended of his male pals.
Two simple rules, build power. The problem of men is cooperation, that patronage solves it.
Chic I’m not sure if you’re serious or not. Bush came out of Yale and Harvard. That’s pretty aristocratic. Most of his bad decision making was of the aristocratic University reasons (no canning of cronies, not fighting for his agenda, getting rid of dead wood or resistant subordinates).
Obama is almost certain to be even WORSE than Bush. His radical politics, corrupt machine experience (without being an enforcer like Truman), and reliance on largely female worshiping of him as First Rockstar is sure to breed male resentment without building male patronage networks. He doesn’t get how to relate to blue collar and average white collar guys — only high-income aristocratic radicals like Ayers (heir to the Commonwealth Edison fortune).
I mean, wow, big surprise most of how men relate to each other is based on moderating competition over women. I’m shocked!
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I think Obama will surprise us and turn out to be a hard-assed get-in-line kind of guy.
Bush did formulate a persona that appealed to blue collar folk in spite of his priveleged background, but he also bogged us down in Iraq, shredded our civil liberties and socialized our financial industry. If Obama makes any of that just a little better yet is disliked by blue collar Joes I don’t think that will sink him.
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Hello saidchic,
Good article though, at least these days, I sympathize with guys who try to get sex via weepy chicks. There’s no way an average dude can approach a woman in the sex-drenched way that a charismatic one can and expect to get laid. OTOH, so-called “nice guys” are as she says often just neurotic and passive aggressive rather than genuinely thoughtful. Such “nice guys” have co-opted the term the way fat chicks hijacked “voluptuous”.
Preech hello preech
*gives hello a high five*
T said as expected, that jezebel article was clueless
UM no it’s not. You are looking to male logic to explain female behavior. We don’t think like men & reason like men. If you just take the time to read her points without your prejudgments, you would see that women have just as many problems meeting nice guys.
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Impressive post. That really would be a great, effective neg to use. You can just see a gal’s brow furrowing as she questions her own power and hotness over a guy who would say that to her………and its cute.
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have co-opted the term the way fat chicks hijacked “voluptuous”.
You killed me with this. Forgive me for being catty but I notice many plus sized women calling their rolls curves. Many of these plus sized women have no definable waist so where the hell are they seeing curves at. Beyonce,Jlo,Kenya Moore, America, Selma Hayek, are examples of curvy women.
Hello, I’m a 6-8 and I would use the term voluptous to describe myself.
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Not a woman who wears a size 26.
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*nodding* size 8-10, and the ten mostly due to peach bottom.
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Whiskey saidChic I’m not sure if you’re serious or not. Bush came out of Yale and Harvard. That’s pretty aristocratic.
No I agree with you, Bush is an American blue blood.
Most of his bad decision making was of the aristocratic University reasons (no canning of cronies, not fighting for his agenda, getting rid of dead wood or resistant subordinates).
Nope I can’t let his education take the brunt of this. Clinton went to Columbia(?) for law school.
He doesn’t get how to relate to blue collar and average white collar guys
I think he does but do poor whites relate to Obama. Whiskey as you and I know, poor whites and blks have been at each other’s throat since 1560’s. If poor whites and poor blks came together, this country could really be something special for everyone. There have been a few instances of poor blks and whites coming together such as the blk panthers ( a much misunderstood group) working with poor/working class whites.
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Such “nice guys” have co-opted the term the way fat chicks hijacked “voluptuous”.
I always thought the term meant curvy, but not actually fat.
Peter
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hello *nodding* size 8-10, and the ten mostly due to peach bottom.
Is it a peach or an apple. If you have an apple I’m sure Roissy,DA,Tupac ,and Agnostic would enjoy a bite 🙂
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Peter- It’s suppose to but as hello said, the term was hijacked.
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“I always thought the term meant curvy, but not actually fat.”
It does, the’yre just thinking positively.
“Is it a peach or an apple. If you have an apple I’m sure Roissy,DA,Tupac ,and Agnostic would enjoy a bite”
Shakira is totally toned and I am much softer than she is, but our butts are almost identical. I do a lot of squats 🙂
Pac and DA are out of state, and I am too old for Agnostic. However I’ve seen Roissy’s photo and have stashed a head of garlic in my purse so that if he ever tries to chat me up when I’m out on the town in DC I will pull out a clove, crush it, and rub garlic all over my flesh to propel him on to his next victim.
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if he ever tries to chat me up when I’m out on the town in DC I will pull out a clove, crush it, and rub garlic all over my flesh to propel him on to his next victim.
i’m pretty sure your personality would suffice.
it was there.
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Ro-hissyfit,
A neg? Why I’m flattered.
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Actually T would have been my guy but he’s married
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no, that was an insult.
ps: if you’re gonna change handles in lame imitation of my stylistic genius, you may want to spend more time studying the master.
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However I’ve seen Roissy’s photo and have stashed a head of garlic in my purse so that if he ever tries to chat me up when I’m out on the town in DC I will pull out a clove, crush it, and rub garlic all over my flesh to propel him on to his next victim
😯
screams
*DEAD FAINT*
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screams
*DEAD FAINT*
jealousy will do that to a girl.
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Hello, I’m a 6-8 and I would use the term voluptous to describe myself.
I’ve presumed it was a bit higher, say around the 10-14 girls. The 6-8 girls are normal, and the 0-2 girls are human twigs. 🙂
Of course, curvy voluptuous women are best. Then petite girls. 🙂
Anecdote: As an idiot who signed up for Match.com, I get a e-mail every few days listing girls who may meet my tastes. The terms voluptuous and curvy are rather screwy, and you’ll end up with size 6 girls with an ass sharing similar labels with a size 20 girl.
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I’m not looking to male logic to explain female behavior, but one thing I do know for sure is that the WORST way to understand women is by taking radical feminists seriously. I read her snarky points, they just boil down to “Any criticism of me and my lifestyle is automatically invalid and the sign of a weak man who hates women and wants us barefoot and pregnant and oppressed in the kitchen all day.”
Sites like jezebel can’t EVER admit that radical feminism is anything except a utopia for women, no matter how many commenters seem coincidentally unable to find happy companionship. That article had no interest in coming to grips with any truth, all it cared about was exonerating feminism, avoiding any accountability and justifying not changing.
I think the commenters here should take it upon themselves to raid that self-congratulatory comments section similar to what we did at marginal revolution blog months ago. Could be fun.
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I think the commenters here should take it upon themselves to raid that self-congratulatory comments section
i’m sharpening my claws.
heh.
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roissy:
i’m sharpening my claws.
heh.
Hot damn!
Now THIS should be good…
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You’ve nudged her out of the indifferent zone into the shit test zone.
So this is how you smell success now, roissy?
Shit/anal….shit/anall… Yes, I guess you would.
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Good article by mainstream media standards. She imagines the typical ‘SYM’ to be way more bitter than he actually is though – it’s a matter of sampling bias, with only the angry ones writing letters.
From the game forums I’ve read and guys I’ve talked to, it’s nearly always an innocent admission of failure with women with the desire to improve.
She frames feminism as the cause of game, when it’s really just an enabler. Game is the result of studying what works with women. Darwinism grounds and unifies it, but do you think it adds that much independently? It’s hard to tell.
Oh, and as for PUA II, the coolest dude on the show is a starving actor – Greg Fellows, look him up. A dude on idolforums writes: “I turned this on last night and lo and behold, this kid I went to acting school with is on it. Greg Fellows. This kid doesn’t need a pick up artist. He used to pull chicks all the time. And the “make-over”, he always looked like that. It makes it hard to watch when it’s so fake.” He was the only dude on the show who wasn’t a total faggot that cried at every junction.
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PA,
Add Mark Krikorian to the non-beta NR writers.
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for what it’s worth, i’m very glad guys have learned game. yes, i get tired of hearing the same shit over and over from guys who want to read my palm, guys who bet they can guess my birthday, and guys who ask me to tell him whether he’s taller than his poor sap wingman friend.
in my view, what game has done is give guys who would otherwise lack the courage to approach women a logic-based routine they can learn to give themselves confidence (or build up what they had already). the result is that guys who would have had a shot with a girl but who were otherwise too shy to approach are now getting themselves in there. 🙂 it’s like ballroom dancing for guys who have no natural skill. they learn the routine and fake it until they build up enough confidence to make it, but as women we’re thrilled bc we get a guy to join us on the dance floor who would have otherwise sat out altogether.
but let’s be real. while i acknowledge that solid game can ‘mess’ with a girl’s head and get her intrigued, in the sense that she’s hearing something different from you than from the other 10 guys who tried to get in her pants that night, she made up her mind as you approached whether you were worth fucking. +/- 5% that you change her mind, since i’m feeling generous today.
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T –
Sorry if this is totally ignorant on my part, but who’s your thumbnail pic?
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T’s avatar is Andrew W.K.
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As a very attractive 24 year old woman, I can tell you these “negs” do not work. Completely ineffective and worse, they make the guy seem socially inept. If I can have my pick of whatever man I want, why would I choose the socially inept guy? I want to be with and around the guy who is smooth, likable, and funny – the guy that everyone wants to be around and be seen with. If I was on the receiving end of this scarf-color neg, I’d immediately lose interest.
Roissy and the readers of the blog just don’t seem to have a real grasp on what truly gets women. Have you guys even seen interactions between a very attractive woman and the guy she wants (“Alpha guy”)? He doesn’t make her uncomfortable in the least. None of the “Alphas” that I know would ever say a neg. Ever. If they’re going to comment on the scarf, they’ll say something nice about it. If they want to give the woman the impression that they don’t care about her looks, they’ll do it in a way that brings her other qualities to the surface of the conversation. But they would never so directly and shamelessly say something negative about her physical appearance. And remember: using a neg that involves physical appearance inevitably draws a wave of attention to your own physical flaws that women might not have noticed earlier.
As for women that are above-average-and-below: maybe negs work. I can’t say. They would have to be annoyingly insecure.
Bottom line: Negs do NOT work. unless the woman is not very attractive and/or annoying and insecure and you only want to sleep with her with no further commitment.
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chic, those models don’t look poor. I look poor. (Wardrobe: a couple of $30 jeans, lots of $5 T-shirts and a jacket that’s 10 years old.) Those models don’t.
David, would your world come to an end if you found your car egged? If you’re afraid of *that*, what’s the worst thing someone has actually ever done to you?
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http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/signals-1021.html
Would roissy say that game is becoming more conscious and so controlling better more of these unconscious cues or that game is hoping to affect the cues by willed of conscious attitudes and of behaviour?
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*willed changes
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Fresh booty in the house:
“As a very attractive 24 year old woman… Negs do NOT work.”
“Dirty blonde: while i acknowledge that solid game can ‘mess’ with a girl’s head …she made up her mind as you approached whether you were worth fucking. ”
Game is controversial because it works. Obviously men need to bring something to the table beforehand.
I love the female perspective, ladies. But men should stop taking direction from women on these subjects.
The target of a sale is often the last person to know their own weakness, the dirty deeds that will persuade and conquer them.
No?
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Em says, “Bottom line: Negs do NOT work. unless the woman is not very attractive and/or annoying and insecure and you only want to sleep with her with no further commitment.”
That’s kind of the point. A secure woman who’s comfortable with her sexuality, is out there already, picking a guy to spend time with. A woman who’s insecure and playing games with herself, is ripe for the picking by a guy with game.
How we women gauge attractiveness, even if we’re bi or Lesbian, is different from how guys do most of the time. They’re happy with a hole, and if they can manage it, one that looks pretty, how ever they define that.
In other words, “You are not a special and unique snowflake.”
The only real difference between one woman and another is all between the ears, and if a guy isn’t looking for actual companionship, none of that matters at the moment. This doesn’t make men bad, it’s just part of what makes them men. It’s better to make peace with this reality than to entertain illusions that will only harm you in the end, and maybe them too if they’re made to feel guilty for being as nature made them to be.
If you don’t like what you’re being offered, opt out. I prefer game over other things like actually lying to a woman that he wants a commitment when he doesn’t. I think it’s much more ethical to convince a woman that he’s worth shagging just for the experience, than it is to convince her that he’s going to stick around.
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Add Mark Krikorian to the non-beta NR writers.
Good call.
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Speaking of shaving, here is a fine photo spread (NSFW, duh) of a gorgeous 19-year-old who proudly sports a GNP. Enjoy!
I would never have thought of that as a GNP. I find that amount of hair acceptable (assuming the chick is hot of course). I always thought GNP = 70’s ‘fro.
While the hair growth is relatively thin (whether naturally, or due to trimming, I don’t know), what matters is that Nature’s upside-down triangle is maintained.
Peter
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“T’s avatar is Andrew W.K.”
That’s Iggy Pop.
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No, it’s currently Andrew WK. My old one was Iggy Pop. You probably haven’t cleared your cache so you may be seeing my old avatar.
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I stand corrected. I was wondering how someone could confuse Andrew W.K. and Iggy Pop.
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@Nicole – I don’t agree with everything you say, but this?
The only real difference between one woman and another is all between the ears, and if a guy isn’t looking for actual companionship, none of that matters at the moment. This doesn’t make men bad, it’s just part of what makes them men. It’s better to make peace with this reality than to entertain illusions that will only harm you in the end, and maybe them too if they’re made to feel guilty for being as nature made them to be.
If you don’t like what you’re being offered, opt out.
Is gold.
Male/female relationships would be a lot more harmonious if women just accepted this and adjusted their behavior to suit their own needs/wants. Denial of this fact turns a lot of chicks into neurotic freaks.
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* Kay Hymowitz rocks.
* Jezebel is a nightmare.
* Hello has a Shakira butt? News like this can really make a guy’s morning.
Three little bits of perspective? Since I seem to be the oldest commenter around here (whatever happened to Dougjnn?), I hope I also get to be the guy who conveys the occasional bit of perspective. Age isn’t a lot of fun — we dotards have to content ourselves with stuff like “perspective.”
* “Game” in the sense of a highly-formulated, aggressive system is new. But in a looser sense it isn’t at all. Pre-’80s, there used to be something called “courtship,” as well as a related thing called “knowing how to treat a woman like a woman.” Look at Cary Grant, Clark Gable, and Bond movies — the negotiations that went on between gals and guys (and the open recognition that guys and gals are somewhat different and after different things) was just taken for granted, even in the broadest popular culture. These were aspects of a craft called “being a man.”
* There are cultures that have never had the commonsense about sex and courtship knocked out of them, as white middle-class American culture seems to have. T/Ricky points out that many black guys have never lost the ability to come on to women in winning and attractive ways for example. In NYC, I see this all the time. Sometimes it’s crude and shocking, other times it’s really smooth and elegant. I remember an incident at a US Post Office. This harried but pretty whitegal got to the counter with her package … This nice-looking black guy was the employee … And he started bantering smoothly with her in a “Hey, pretty lady” kind of way. Absolutely fascinating the way she reacted. 1) Annoyance. 2) Indignation (as in “should I cry sexual harassment? Where’s the supervisor?”). 3) “Uh-oh, he’s a black guy, so I can’t shame him the way I could shame a white guy.” 4) “Actually he isn’t bad looking.” 5) “This flirtation is kinda fun.” In the course of two minutes he turned her from a nervous highstrung wreck into a luscious Woman with a Capital W, a purring kittykat. Made her day, as far as I could tell.
3) Another culture that never lost its commonsense is the French. PC never caught on over there. Gals remain gals and guys remain guys. Like black American culture it’s a culture of flirtation — you get up in the morning looking forward to giving and receiving tingles and flirtation, and — who knows — maybe moving beyond that too. But there are huge diffs in how French guys and white American guys grow up. In the US, white American guys seem to think it’s shameful, maybe even faggy, to show an interest in sex, l’amour, flirtation, pursuit, poetry, etc, except maybe in the crudest Maxim form. It’s as though you aren’t really a guy unless you’re a snowboardin’, videogame-playin’ eternal 12-year-old, grossed out by girls. In France, you grow up — as a guy — looking forward to conquering la femme, to enjoying art and food … Nothing faggy about it at all — the whole love-sex-art thing is in fact an aspect of being macho winner, not a sleazy wuss. BTW, American blacks often find France quite simpatico. I wonder why.
Check out the Choderlos de Laclos novel “Liaisons Dangereuses” (or the Stephen Frears movie of it, “Dangerous Liaisons”) for proof of this. It’s often referred to as “Machiavelli for love and sex.” These are people waging real sex-and-love campaigns against each other. Great novel, great film, btw. You’ll see all of “Game” right there in a novel from 1782.
3. It used to be possible to be both “nice guy” and “sexy rascal.” A real, substantial man could be and was both, and knew how and when to switch roles. As far as I can tell from what gets said around here, one of the effects of feminism and PC is that young guys (at least young white American guys) are now divided up between the loser/nice-guy crowd and the winner/rascal crowd, with the first being desperate to learn a few of the skills the second have. Is this a fair impression? And what was it about feminism and PC that created this divide? Seriously, it didn’t used to be a big deal to have nice-guy and rascal as two easily-accessible parts of your personality. You could be depended on, but you could also turn on the heat and demand your fun.
(All that said, American men whiteguys always been a little notorious for 1) not making the pursuit of women, love, sex, and poetry their main focus in life, and 2) being henpecked patsies for their bossy women …)
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Chic/jak, dressing “hip” doesnt mean the same as hipster. And again metro does not equal hipster, just to be clear.
Regarding that Jezebel article, thats funny, i read that yesterday and literally had a comment written up and ready to post, but I just thought whats the use. While im not as unnecessarily hostile to that site as you guys seem to be, I do think they need someone other than emotionally ruined, forever-single, bitter feminists posting on there – just as I’m always glad to see views on here other than “yeah Roissy! you are so right, dude!”. I’d love to see some truthspeak from the guys on here commenting on that site.
Also, @ Em, Im not a big “neg” guy, and I wouldnt say Roissy advocates canned negs either. Its more about changing the frame so that you arent trying to gain approval of the girl, which too many guys end up doing because they are attractive or whatever. Girls always focus on the neg when they read about Game like they just CANT believe guys would do that, but they basically just misunderstand the whole philosophy behind it, which is not surprising. An effectively used ‘neg’ or some version of it is not obvious. Its subtle, and is mostly a playful way of flirting with a girl while showing her you arent trying to win her over. It also works wonders when used properly, which once again proves why guys shouldnt take advice from women.
T, I meant to comment on your Raw Power icon a while back but never did. Im assuming you wouldnt be into it, but its one of the best albums of all time.
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Michael, fantastic comment, I completely agree.
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Epic comment Michael Blowhard. Also, I noticed the affinity French and Black Americans have for each other but never really figured out why until your comment. It makes sense.
And this part is especially true:
“(All that said, American men whiteguys always been a little notorious for 1) not making the pursuit of women, love, sex, and poetry their main focus in life, and 2) being henpecked patsies for their bossy women …)”
Even stranger is that white American men are so brainwashed that they are proud of being henpecked, and think people without bossy women are missing out. I’ve often seen white American men get lucky enough to meet a traditional foreign woman and proceed to turn her into a feminist upon dating her for “her own good.”
Also, if you think Jezebel is a mess, racialicious.com is even worse. Unfortunately it’s moderated, and I rarely get comments through. I would love to see the people on that site get into an online, free for all with the Sailer crowd. Tears would be shed.
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Dude, are you insane? I put that Raw Power avatar up for a reason, Iggy Pop is my all-time favorite artist. He’s the single reason I cannot stand navelgazing, warbly modern rock, it all sounds so pussified, emo and nerdy in comparison. Raw Power, Funhouse and Kill City can’t be beat.
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Awesome. I guess I just didnt think you would like that kind of music given some of your blog posts and comments. No offense by that, but most people who share a lot of your views would be pretty repelled hearing a lot of that stuff, although I learned a while ago that political views and music tastes dont always correlate.
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Even stranger is that white American men are so brainwashed that they are proud of being henpecked, and think people without bossy women are missing out.
Given the way television commercials and sitcoms so relentlessly show men as clueless buffoons at the mercy of their all-knowing wives, it’s not surprising that men start thinking this is a desirable state of affairs.
Peter
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I remember reading a blog post by a white Jewish guy with a latina girlfriend, bragging about how before him her latin boyfriends were macho insecure guys that made her cook, clean and be obedient, and he freed her from that and made her realize she was equal and no one’s servant. Now she is sassy and “independent,” cooks less than him, is into Sex and the City and is headstrong and fierce. Then he proceeded to mock the backwards men of her culture who were too insecure in their manhood to let her bloom the way he did. Then a bunch of other white guys in the comments chimed in with similar stories about how they were superior to foreign men in this respect too, and how they converted women of foreign cultures into American feminist women. I swear this was not tongue in cheek parody but 100% serious, it was on a blog I read years ago around 2004 but I can’t recall where now. I remember when reading it though that a lot of white American guys are not satisfied with just having ruined their own women, they are out to create a worldwide revolution and ruin other cultures’ women too.
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I wouldn’t mind it if someone ruined Muslim women, though. Would be far fewer martyrs out there if they got some poon.
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That wouldn’t help. Ruining Muslim women by making them more feminist wouldn’t get more Muslim guys poon, that would just lead to them moving to the heart of the city to live a Sex and the City cosmopolitian lifestyle like a Jezebel.com feminist, where they’ll be promiscuous and vapid, but not fucking Muslim guys. Muslim guys will get even madder at getting even less poon than before.
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If negs really do “work wonders,” none of you guys are or are dealing with attractive, smart people. As I’ve acknowledged, it may indeed be effective among the less picky men and women.
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to em above:
The tone of your post is bossy, elitist, and revengeful.
“insecure” much?
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Roissy —> Rhett Butler?
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I wouldn’t mind it if someone ruined Muslim women, though. Would be far fewer martyrs out there if they got some poon.
I once jokingly said that we should liberate the hot and moderately women of the Middle East, and indoctrinate them with our glorious liberal values depriving the Muslim men of what they squandered on playing Jihad.
Hell, given how Iraq is turning out, we’ll probably end up importing the Christians…
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they are out to create a worldwide revolution and ruin other cultures’ women too.
We’re making their women “blanche”, while also raising their incomes and standards of living.
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Em, again you miss the point and misunderstand. I agree to an extent that more insecure girls are more likely to be affected by comments that are more negative, but it depends on what the conversation is about. Guys have probably used “negs” on you, consciously or unconsciously, without you even thinking of it in that way, and you were likely into it. You cant tell me you only are into guys who come up to you and are just super complimentary and nice the whole time to you. Again, its called being playful, flirty. You are probably a blast to hang with.
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Elitist? Me?
Definitely.
But also nice. Just trying to steer you guys away from negativity, and thus, negs. I’ve had a line used on me recently, uncannily similar to the one in the original post, and it completely turned me off, though I wasn’t interested in him in the least to begin with. But any possible friendship where he could meet my friends was nipped in the bud. People who say negative things just aren’t welcome.
Rick, there’s a difference between being playful and using negs. Oftentimes guys will use negs in what they think is a playful manner, but it just comes off as rude. Again, I’d suggest watching a real Alpha guy in action.
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Then that’s the root of the problem here: you don’t understand what negs actually are.
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How about this: there’s a difference between intent and manifestation. Anyway, I’m all for game improvement. If you think it works for you, go ahead. Just remember that negs aren’t golden (which many of you seem to think it is) and furthermore, will totally fail you for many women – women are all different. And please please watch a real Alpha in action! Maybe then you’ll understand. I’m off for good! Comment threads are a huge distraction.
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Em – you are remarkably patronizing, condescending, and alienating. You admit to being elitist, you declare that you’ve taken it upon yourself to “steer us from negativity,” yet you frame your points in a way that is judgmental, superior and off-putting, pretty much guaranteeing more negative responses. You declare yourself more knowledgeable and enlightened than anyone else here without giving any concrete evidence of it outside of empty platitudes and declarations of how nothing works on you. You show that you misunderstand what a neg is by saying there is a difference between a neg and being playful.
Yet you want us to give advice on socially interacting with people in a way to make them like you?
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How about this: you have no idea what you’re talking about, yet you’re convinced you know what’s good for everyone more than they do. I’d be shocked if you weren’t an avid Obama booster during this campaign, or if SWPL wasn’t a perfect description of you and your lifestyle.
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Em, just make sure to comment only when you know what you are talking about, or at least when you are willing to actually read/comprehend someone elses comments without just reacting emotionally.
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Em, what works for Alphas won’t work for betas. By Alpha, what I mean is either social hierarchy or raw natural superiority.
The upper eschelon don’t need any of this advice. Who needs it is the moderately attractive to plain guy who hasn’t murdered anyone, and doesn’t deserve to be mistreated, but finds himself consistently getting the women who mistake him for a masochist, or none at all, or only the ones they don’t want for whatever reason.
Granted, it is my personal opinion that one shouldn’t play a game in which they are a loser by default, but we’re not talking about careers or marriage in most of these guys’ cases. They’d just like some “hot” female company with as little drama as possible.
To get that short term goal met, they have to learn to mock what they are not, or to work around the barriers that “hot” women put up because they feel that they are entitled to more than they really are.
If you think about it, most of the women these guys would meet day to day either make the same or less money than they do, have the same or less education, and the same or less social status.
I’m a firm believer in that self confidence comes from actual abilities and accomplishments. People can put up whatever front they like, but almost everyone I know who is insecure is so because they are living a lie, or they have things they did not earn, and hate themselves for it. Deep down, they know eventually the bubble’s going to burst.
The PUA is a needle for that bubble.
To me, it’s an interesting cultural phenomenon. Nobody in that crowd is or has ever been trying to get next to someone who looks like me, so I’m not personally affected by it.
Thing is, in order to be the sort who is personally affected by that kind of thing, a woman has to be trying to be that. PUA is the modern American man’s _Cosmopolitan_ quiz. Like goes to like, and this is how nature works. Go with the flow.
The only reason I add my voice to any of this is because I’ve been the fat friend in some of these scenarios, and it piqued my curiosity. Sometimes it’s nice to talk to some of the lions I admit to purposefully feeding some of my female acquaintances to on occasion.
I also try to add some perspective from the unapologetic freak side. Adds flavor, and sometimes pisses people off…but sometimes we all need to be pissed off. Makes us think.
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em,
we know you are still reading. Your narcissism demands it.
You’ve been tone deaf to your criticisms here, and now you can’t take the heat.
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Micheal Blowhard said In the US, white American guys seem to think it’s shameful, maybe even faggy, to show an interest in sex, l’amour, flirtation, pursuit, poetry, etc, except maybe in the crudest Maxim form. It’s as though you aren’t really a guy unless you’re a snowboardin’, videogame-playin’ eternal 12-year-old, grossed out by girls. In France, you grow up — as a guy — looking forward to conquering la femme, to enjoying art and food … Nothing faggy about it at all — the whole love-sex-art thing is in fact an aspect of being macho winner, not a sleazy wuss. BTW, American blacks often find France quite simpatico. I wonder why
I agree 2000% Mike& older blks moreso than younger blks are in love in France. The street thug has more in common with the Maxim form of sex.
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Rick
Chic/jak, dressing “hip” doesnt mean the same as hipster. And again metro does not equal hipster, just to be clear
Agreed
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Chic, you and I should go to France and take notes on French guys’ game to post here and help these dudes.
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Agreed hello
The thing that throws me about French men is how on the one hand they are very effeminate but at the same time very masculine as well. Good dressing and grooming can take a man far.
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The perfect man is one who is carries himself with that Je Nous Se Qua of subtle, all-pervading masculinity, but is secure enough in that masculinity to have good manners. THIS is the type of “nice guy” that women swoon over.
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chic:
The thing that throws me about French men is how on the one hand they are very effeminate but at the same time very masculine as well. Good dressing and grooming can take a man far.
hello:
The perfect man is one who is carries himself with that Je Nous Se Qua of subtle, all-pervading masculinity, but is secure enough in that masculinity to have good manners. THIS is the type of “nice guy” that women swoon over.
All of this is another way of saying women desire a socially-savvy (i.e., cunning and sometimes ruthless) man who is dominant over other men in his environment, yet who is nice to the woman in question.
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Your point being?
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hello:
Your point being?
Talk of “niceness” and “manners” is a form of isolating a minor attribute from the whole. The whole being, of course, power.
Window dressing.
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Pac,
“Talk of ‘niceness’ and ‘manners’ is a form of isolating a minor attribute from the whole. The whole being, of course, power.”
For most women, especially drunk ones, just “power” (real or fake) will do for one night. Since that’s all the time you want, why think about it any further than that?
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hello:
For most women, especially drunk ones, just “power” (real or fake) will do for one night. Since that’s all the time you want,
I’m not really a ONS type of guy. I haven’t totally given up on marriage…yet.
why think about it any further than that?
Nothing personal, but your original comment is just the sort of ambiguity that leads naive, idealistic men down the path to ruin. Women only appreciate the niceness as an afterthought to attraction, like icing on the cake.
Referring blithely to the cake itself as “je ne sais quoi” merely obscures what should be revealed.
Just keeping an eye out for those behind me in the line…
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“Nothing personal, but your original comment is just the sort of ambiguity that leads naive, idealistic men down the path to ruin. ”
It wasn’t meant to be taken that seriously. It was just an offhand comment made while Chic was talking about France.
“Women only appreciate the niceness as an afterthought to attraction, like icing on the cake”
And the guys here, of course, never ever appreciate niceness as an afterthought to looks, like icing on the cake, right?
“Referring blithely to the cake itself as “je ne sais quoi” merely obscures what should be revealed”
Charisma is often described thus, in vague terms because it is very hard to describe and quantify. BTW, true charisma is by definition rare and no even moderately intelligent woman expects that all, or even most men she meets will have it. One who does is an idiot.
“Just keeping an eye out for those behind me in the line…”
Are you suggesting a lot of guys you know are waiting in line for me?
*hiding*
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One more thought, Pac:
“I haven’t totally given up on marriage…yet.”
Is your marrying contingent on you fulfilling every fantasy your wife can have, and her seeing you as perfect? If so I advise you to totally give up on marriage. There are lots of women who work themselves into hysterics because they don’t compare to the porn stars their husbands and boyfriends watch. David Alexander aside most men don’t expect their partners to compete with fantasies, and despite what you believe there are women out there realistic enough not to demand perfection. Yes people are more and more picky every day but good ones are out there although you probably won’t find them in pick up joints.
Dude, I like your psycho writing style interlaced with realism and insight but you really don’t have to be perfect.
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hello:
And the guys here, of course, never ever appreciate niceness as an afterthought to looks, like icing on the cake, right?
The difference is the men here are straight up and forthright about their desires.
Are you suggesting a lot of guys you know are waiting in line for me?
Maybe. Sometimes people get tired of waiting in line for the blockbuster and decide to jump over to the B movie.
Is your marrying contingent on you fulfilling every fantasy your wife can have, and her seeing you as perfect?
No, it’s contingent on her
1) being hot
2) remaining horny after marriage
3) being somewhat sophisticated and intellectually compatible
4) content with the subdued moments in our life as against the high points during our courtship
5) capable of being a good mother to my future son
In other words, not very likely.
Are you familiar with the old joke:
“Beautiful, intelligent, sane. Pick any two.”
It’s funny because it’s true.
Dude, I like your psycho writing style interlaced with realism and insight but you really don’t have to be perfect.
I have…expensive…tastes.
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Tupac, I can’t remember where you live, but I am pretty sure you are caught up in the Beltway/NE feminist cesspool. I still maintain that what you want is out there, but I think you live in a place where you are searching for a needle in a haystack. Unlike the women you are looking for, time is on your side.
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tupac saidI’m not really a ONS type of guy. I haven’t totally given up on marriage…yet
Ah this is good to know but you have done some freaky things with women in your past. Your future wife may be grossed out by your pass experiences.
Hello saidBTW, true charisma is by definition rare and no even moderately intelligent woman expects that all, or even most men she meets will have it. One who does is an idiot
Major cosign
tupac saidThe difference is the men here are straight up and forthright about their desires
And* the women here aren’t?
Maybe. Sometimes people get tired of waiting in line for the blockbuster and decide to jump over to the B movie.
Ouch
You need a dirty slap for that one.
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[…] details on a woman? tell it to rhett butler. watch how he does almost exactly what i wrote about in this post. he has negged scarlett and raised his value in her […]
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“I’m surprised you’re wearing XXX” is passive-aggressive and girly.
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Any tips on what I should say after she states “I’m surprised you notice stuff like that.”?
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[…] “I’m Surprised You’re…” – A fun opener and subtle neg […]
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