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Chateau Heartiste

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« Happy New Year!
Dating In The City: A Series »

Reader Mailbag: New Year Edition

January 2, 2009 by CH

A girl had emailed me asking if I still wanted an assistant to handle the incoming mail for the summer months when she would be in town. I told her yes, but the job was unpaid except for a beer I might buy her for all her hard work. I didn’t hear back. Do some people think this blog is a legitimate business operation?

Also, for those who have emailed asking for advice or the magnitude of my schlong, I’ll get to you. I have a long list of requests which will take some time to plow through, so be patient.

Email #1

I’m a fan of your blog, and I was wondering if you could spare some time to answer a few questions for me. Feel free to post any of this if you like (without my name please), since I’d be glad to hear from your readers as well.

I’m a 27 year old PhD candidate at a university in the Midwest, and I teach weekly biology tutorials groups of a few dozen students who are aged 19 to 24. One of these students is an absolutely gorgeous German, and she has been very friendly with me for the whole first semester.

I haven’t pursued her (yet) because the university frowns upon teaching assistants who are caught hitting on or dating their (current) students, so I was going to wait until my classes finish sometime in February. But she wrote me an email a few weeks ago (after our final tutorial for the first semester, and about 10 days before her midterm exam) saying something to the effect of “Hi, I’m studying for the midterm and I’m having trouble with topic X. can you help me out?”. Since I was away at the time, I responded about two days later by saying “Sure. What did you have in mind?”. She never responded to my email, and the midterm is now past. I wrote nothing to her other than that one message.

So my questions are: #1: Did I fuck up? What should I have written? #2: What should I say when I see her in January in my tutorials? Do I make fun of her for being too shy to write back to me (this is my impulse)? Or should I just ignore the whole thing? Something else?

And #3: Could you give some general advice about how I might go about approaching my female students? Bear in mind that (a) many of them are foreign (not sure if this matters), and (b) I will pay a very high cost if any of them go psycho on me and tell the university administrators a story about how I was sexually harassing them (whether true or not).

Thanks,

A.

Biology, eh? Girls love the life sciences. So hands on and humanistic. First off, as a teacher, you are in a position of power of the type that is particularly attractive to nubile students under your thrall. Leverage your power to the maximum and score some fine ass, or you will live to regret your inaction. When you are old, will it be more consoling to you as your life wanes feebly to its inconsequential end that you followed the rules and behaved ethically, or that you made love to beautiful young women that the average man can only dream of doing? In the classroom there is a Pavlovian relationship between the dinner bell of your high status and the salivating of the vaginas squirming in their seats. You may not get these opportunities outside school, so formulate a plan of action that includes both the seduction and a way to cover your tracks.

All right, on to the gist of your question. Usually, if a girl extends herself first, she is definitely interested in the bang. But in your case, the possibility exists she may have flirted to manipulate you for one-on-one tutoring or even grade fudging. Girls are very aware of their power at that age. Why didn’t she respond to your email? She may have gotten cold feet because she really does like you but knows it’s wrong. HA, I kill myself! I can count the number of women I’ve known in my life who gave two shits about ethics when their personal interests were on the line. A boyfriend could have re-entered her life. She might have thought you would read too much into her request and want sex when she didn’t. Or she was so in awe of your power that she felt unworthy of your company; it sounds strange to you, but girls really do react to male power like men react to female beauty — they get dizzy in the head and their self-doubts sabotage any chance at love. The fact that she’s German leads me to believe it was the latter; cultural differences in conjunction with the power dynamics may have caused her to flake. It’s hard to tell exactly what she’s thinking based on the details you gave without observing her body language around you.

I don’t see anything wrong with your email to her considering the circumstances. You kept it short and vague enough that the school couldn’t use it as evidence against you in the worst case scenario that she rats you out or the future affair gets discovered. Normally, asking a question is very beta, but you’ve got to be wary of what you archive in email. Had you had this discussion with her in person and out of earshot you should have given her a time and place to meet.

When you see her again in January it will be too late to make fun of her for not responding. Too much time will have passed. Any reference, however cocky, to some long ago email will strike her as the beta move of a man who remembered something written by an ostensibly lower value girl. I would treat her like any other female student — arrogantly and flirty.

Approaching female students is tricky. Foreign female students could be easier, as many foreign girls are more comfortable accepting male power as sexy and admirable; to them, sleeping with professors is the natural order of things. Throw out feelers asking them if the class has been a challenge. See if they’ll take the bait. You’ll need to run your game in places where there are few prying eyes. Only you know where these are. Mixed faculty/student bars? The Quad? Your office after hours? The bathroom on the floor no one uses? Don’t worry about meeting her in stealth. Girls get off on the thrill of pursuing forbidden flings.

Email #2

Here is an update from a reader whose email I included in a previous Reader Mailbag.

Hey, you wanted a three-month update, here it is:

-I bought MM, and read more Juggler.  I got blown out a ton of times–as I had said earlier, I’m not the most attractive guy–but I did go on a date (spent $1.50 for her coffee) and got laid twice.  She was a 5.5, which is good considering my history.

Reading your blog makes me hate public institutions and women.  I won’t go postal or anything like that, but I definitely won’t hesitate to discriminate against women and alpha males in the workplace when possible (in the subtlest possible manner).  So, let me ask you two questions, if you do choose to answer them in an e-mail or on your blog:

-I’m so naturally beta that I wonder how much I can transform myself.  How much will game do?  And how would you advise betas to get out of this pathetic mentality (held until one discovers and perfects game) that one is naturally a beta, that one is naturally small and worthless in this utterly realist world, and that one’s advances are “inappropriate” (whereas alpha males’ advances are appropriate or sanctioned).  You advised me against negative thinking last time…I’m trying man, I’m trying.

-Second, what would you advise us to do?  I think what you write makes me pick up on so much anti-beta sexism in media/institutions.  Is there any constructive advice you could give to all betas on your blog?  I say this because I could see many beta males potentially just getting pissed as hell at women in general.  And I don’t know if the masculine way of letting out this frustration–violence–is the best immediate way to solve this problem.  Even if society needs an angry/violent beta revolution, I don’t think that you want most of your immediate readers to act violently against women.

Best,

A.M.

$1.50 for a 5.5 notch is very good. You deserve to feel pride in your accomplishment. If you can keep up that level of noncommitment and cheapskatery while scoring ass, your confidence as a man will zoom. As for hating public institutions, I think this is inevitable as more and more betas wise up to the fact that the game is rigged against them from the start. Evo psych has buttressed a groundswell of understanding and resentment that will, I predict, rip apart the cooperativeness that has been a hallmark of the rise of the West as a world dominating culture. The flipside of commenter Whiskey’s accurate analysis — that the soft polygamy of the feminized West means less concern by beta males for the misfortunes of women and children — is that those beta males are also less likely to admire the alpha males and follow them into battle. Instead, they will learn from the alphas and adjust their behavior such that they are, in practice, continually usurping alpha power for a shot at all that free flowing pussy.

So go ahead and hate public institutions. After all, they hate you. But don’t let that carry over into hate for women. Do remind yourself that women, like men, are only acting in accordance with their animal desires. They are no more responsible for those evolved instincts than you are for wanting to eat when your stomach growls. Commenter Thursday wrote something along the lines: “Success with women makes you like them more but respect them less.” Refusing to cough up your respect for a woman who hasn’t earned it is not the same as hating her. So don’t let a reasonable and personally advantageous level of cynicism about women morph into hate, or your love life will suffer.

I’m so naturally beta that I wonder how much I can transform myself.  How much will game do?

Learning game will transform you. How much is a question of commitment, preexisting suite of alpha traits, and ability to withstand rejection. Some guys see their notch count triple (mine quadrupled). Others see a strengthening of their relationships. Still others see only marginal improvement. If you knew beforehand that spending a year learning game would net you just one girlfriend one point higher than the best girl you ever banged, would you commit yourself? What if all the effort amounted to no more than one extra one night stand? A lot of lesser betas and omegas who are cursed to realize very little improvement from learning game commit themselves to it despite the odds. Because men know there is nothing more hellish than to go your whole life never feeling the sex and love of a woman. Really, what’s the point of living? Love is life’s penultimate pleasure.

And how would you advise betas to get out of this pathetic mentality?

Your negative thinking is strong. It’s written all over your email. My advice is going to sound cheesy, but what I’ve been told works really well, when negative thoughts intrude, is to yell “STOP” out loud. You have to say it, not just think it. For whatever reason, this simple act “resets” your brain. Also, memorize a list of positive, complimentary words like “charming, confident, stylish, etc” and say them out loud to yourself: “I am one charming motherfucker”. Do it with a sly grin. Imagine you are James Bond and literally fool yourself into believing it. You’d be amazed how our thoughts reveal themselves in our body language. Chicks pick up on this shit.

that one is naturally small and worthless in this utterly realist world

Poon Commandment XI: Be irrationally self-confident. “Irrational self-confidence will get you more pussy than rational defeatism.” A balance must be struck: Accepting the ugly truths is necessary for game, but don’t wallow in what those truths have to say about you personally. What’s the point, really? Wallowing is feelgood pity whoring on the cheap. (See: DA) It doesn’t get you any closer to your goal.

Second, what would you advise us to do?  I think what you write makes me pick up on so much anti-beta sexism in media/institutions.  Is there any constructive advice you could give to all betas on your blog?

My advice to betas who have seen the light: The system is discredited. It is broken. You have only to see to it that your own interests are served. Turn off the TV, shut out the whitenoise of the greater culture yammering less than useless platitudes into your ear, and keep your true friends close. Dispense your loyalty sparingly. Think of yourself as a saboteur leveraging the zeitgeist for your benefit. Get into a fight once in a while; it’s good for your heart.

Email #3

From a woman:

First off, I just want to compliment you on your blog.  Your honesty about women, men and sex is a nice change from all that p.c. baloney about compromise, sex not being that important, etc.  You’re also an excellent writer.

Anyway, since you post about alpha, vs. beta vs omega men and women, I thought I’d get your advice on how to handle being hit on by an overly clingy, desperate omega man.

Last night at a singles dinner I saw this clingy omega guy, who I had met a while back, who was on me like static cling.

At our first meeting, the guy, who I’ll refer to a “O,” parked himself over at my table.  When I wanted to leave the dinner, O offered to walk me home through Central Park back to the Upper East Side.  I declined his offer, but he still insisted on walking me out of the building until I found a cab, which I didn’t want either. I mean, there’s no way I would walk through Central Park at night with some stranger.  What kind of idiot would expect a woman he just met to walk with him at night through Central Park?!?!?

Anyway, I saw him again last night.  This time he came to my table before dinner was served, quickly introduced himself, and then told me the people at his table were all cliquey, and that he couldn’t find any other table.  In order to be polite, and to distance myself from him, I tried introducing him to the other people at my table.

That was obviously a bad move on my part since O asked one of they guys at my table to switch seats so he could sit next to me.  The guy that switched with him later came over and apologized to me, since he could tell I didn’t like O.  It turns out he didn’t want to be rude to O either.

So to get right down to it, how would you brush off people you don’t like?  I’m basically a polite person. But on the other hand, I don’t want these putzy omegas all over me just because of it.

Thanks.

L.

Flattery will get you everywhere. So you have attracted your very own pet omega. Doesn’t quite boost the ego like attention from a worthier man, does it? If anything, it makes you feel worse. I know. When fat chicks hit on me, I wonder if I’m losing my edge that bottom dwelling dregs of womanhood feel they have a chance. Then I remember it’s all just part of the wonderful fabric of life, and I feel better.

Assuming your story is true and you aren’t twisting the facts to suit some anti-reader mailbag agenda, I guarantee men reading your email winced with disgust at this putrid display of betatude. The stink of the loser can clear a room from twelve parsecs. I have to wonder, though, if you led this guy on the first time you two met? Even if you didn’t consciously do so, some betas will see flirting in the most innocuous female gestures, as desperation and hope warps their ability to distinguish reality from fantasy.

Based on his aggressiveness pursing you and his public appearance (true omegas rarely attend social gatherings), I’d classify your admirer as a lesser beta with no game but a lot of blockheaded fortitude. These are the worst types, as they will make a nuisance of themselves until you impress upon them in the clearest possible way that they have no chance. Arrogant nerds and asperger cases fall under this classification, as do guys who have good careers but nothing else going for them.

What kind of idiot would expect a woman he just met to walk with him at night through Central Park?!?!?

Offering to walk women home when no attraction has been built is a classic needy “please love me” maneuver. Your dry pussy is stoking your contempt for this weak specimen of manhood. I hope he’s reading. Shock is often the only way to enlighten the blind beta.

In order to be polite, and to distance myself from him, I tried introducing him to the other people at my table.

I think this was a mistake. Why foist him onto your tablemates? That only gives him the excuse he needs to loiter with your group. Politeness only encourages the aggressive lesser betas. If there was an empty chair, you should have lied and said it was being saved for someone. The idea is to make him uncomfortable, not to introduce him to your friends.

That was obviously a bad move on my part since O asked one of they guys at my table to switch seats so he could sit next to me.

And there you go. I should really read ahead.

So to get right down to it, how would you brush off people you don’t like?

Forget politeness. Say “Oh, hi” and “that’s nice” while he’s blabbing and make it obvious with your body language and facial expression that you are about to rejoin a conversation with your friends. If he persists in making himself unwelcome, firmly say “well, I’m going to get back to my friends now. BYE.” and turn your head sharply away from him. Don’t wait for his response.

Another shrewd move is to have a strategy with one of your friends in case a clingy lesser beta intrudes on your fun. When he walks over and starts talking, your friend dials your cell phone. Look at the phone and say “Oh, wow, this is important. Sorry, I have to take it. See you.” Let the phone be your cockblock.

Or have your beefy male friend insert himself between you and him and pepper him with guy questions about his job. You’ll need to work out a nonverbal code beforehand which will summon him for help.

In worst case scenarios, scream “RAPE”. Or just tell him I’m your lover. That cows even the most stubborn suitors into submission. A man’s gotta know his limitations.

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Posted in Reader Mailbag | 412 Comments

412 Responses

  1. on January 2, 2009 at 1:59 pm T. AKA Ricky Raw

    Normally, asking a question is very beta

    Can you elaborate on this? Sounds interesting.

    I won’t go postal or anything like that, but I definitely won’t hesitate to discriminate against women and alpha males in the workplace when possible (in the subtlest possible manner).

    Nothing cements betaness as much as hating on alphas. Once you hate something, you’ll never succeed in becoming it because your subconscious will sabotage you. It’s why people who hate the rich can’t become rich. If you hate something, your subconscious considers it a bad thing to be and encourages self-sabotage if you make any moves to become more like the thing you hate.

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  2. on January 2, 2009 at 2:02 pm Joe T.

    The first guy (the Ph.D candidate) should have escalated much faster. Instead of responding by email, he should have called her if he had access to her number (teachers usually do.) For plausible deniability with the university, he could have cited her initial email if a problem ever came up about him phoning her (not likely to happen anyway.)

    Alternatively, he could have met her in a place where he knows she would usually be, like in the biology lab.

    What I’m saying is that once she gave him the opening by sending the email, there were other ways to close an initial meeting rather than by meekly sending back another email. Email is often a shaky means of communication when time is tight and there’s a hard deadline looming.

    DON’T make fun of her for being “too shy” to answer your email, because it was never established that her email was a romantic opening in the first place. The guy certainly may construe it that way, and indeed he should if he wants to get any further with this chick. It’s not just an “if”, it’s a “must”. But he shouldn’t indicate to her that he was assuming as much.

    He should just buttonhole her when there are few or no people around, and ask her what she was having trouble with, what she wanted to ask him about. Then, right there, he should ask her to lunch.

    As for the university frowning upon relationships between teaching assistants and students, fuck ’em. (I mean the university, but I mean the students, too, if you can.) They have no right to interfere with the social lives of two consenting adults. You best be quiet and discrete about it, though, to avoid accusations of favoritism from other students. But at the end of the day, your right to privacy should trump the school’s politically-correct paternalism.

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  3. on January 2, 2009 at 2:14 pm The G Manifesto

    “Normally, asking a question is very beta”

    Not true.

    Statement – Statement – Question is how Alphas communicate.

    – MPM

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  4. on January 2, 2009 at 2:14 pm The G Manifesto

    Right?

    – MPM

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  5. on January 2, 2009 at 2:20 pm ironrailsironweights

    It could be that the student in #1 was not interested in the teaching assistant in any romantic way. All she might have wanted was exactly what she asked for, namely help with the midterm, and she never responded to the TA because she got help elsewhere and didn’t need his assistance any more (still, she should have told him so).

    Sometimes the simplest explanations are the correct ones.

    Peter

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  6. on January 2, 2009 at 2:23 pm ironrailsironweights

    Some guys see their notch count triple (mine quadrupled).

    Your math skills are a little faulty. Going from zero to zero does not equal “quadrupled.”

    Peter

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  7. on January 2, 2009 at 2:24 pm Canto

    If you can make this city a fraction of a percent less sexually frustrated I applaud you. I’m pretty sure you could even get Brian Peppers someone to pork.
    But you’re sounding more and more like a an Evelyn Waugh character. You’re telling men and women how to feel about each other on an oversimplified emotional scale. It’s quite evil-making.

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  8. on January 2, 2009 at 2:25 pm Joe T.

    “Sometimes the simples explanations are the correct ones.”

    True, but I’d argue that neither explanation is simpler than the other in this case. Assuming the guy doesn’t look like Lurch, both explanations are equally plausible.

    Also, isn’t the point of this exercise to give advice to the reader as to how to parlay a given set of ambiguous-but-hopeful circumstances into a romantic or sexual encounter?

    Assuming from the get-go that the girl isn’t interested, or giving too much weight to that explanation, is the path of the beta rather than the alpha.

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  9. on January 2, 2009 at 2:26 pm Terry

    If love is life’s penultimate pleasure, what’s the ultimate one?

    #1 screwed up his email. You don’t ask what the girl “had in mind”–you tell her where and when you’re meeting with her. She’ll comply, and you take it from there.

    -T

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  10. on January 2, 2009 at 2:33 pm ez

    i agree with terry. & i know we’re right, because i’m a girl, a grad student, & i often run with a lecherous group of professors. in a situation like this it’s better to seem professional & disinterested, like you’re some unattainable god authority figure — so she seems flattered by your attention when she finally gets it. the use of the word “unfortunately” probably would have helped. the casual email response was probably a turn off. it would have been for me.

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  11. on January 2, 2009 at 2:39 pm The Limey

    “Girls get off on the thrill of pursuing forbidden flings.”

    This is so true. As an unhappily married man I was pursued by a 9.5 Hooters chick for 6 months before my married-beta-blinkers (blinkers as in eye coverings for horses) came off when I moved out and I woke up enough to game her into bed for 9 months.

    Recently I’ve been gaming a 6/7 who despite giving me shit at not knowing before our 1st date that I was separated and that I had a kid, pursued me for a 2nd date. On that date she insisted that she didn’t sleep with married men, so I played her with a combination of non-specific ‘you’re interesting’ compliments and ‘you’re reserved’ negs, closing the deal with ‘if nothing else I’d like for us to be friends’. 30 mins later we’re back at her place for the bedroom rodeo.

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  12. on January 2, 2009 at 2:50 pm Wtf, Ducks?

    “It’s why people who hate the rich can’t become rich. If you hate something, your subconscious considers it a bad thing to be and encourages self-sabotage if you make any moves to become more like the thing you hate.”–T

    This is hardly true at all; see the Obamas. Unless their enmity towards capitalism and wealth as manifested in America was an elaborate ruse, their subconscious did little to dissuade them from personal profitable pursuits.

    LikeLike


  13. on January 2, 2009 at 2:51 pm josh

    Not to go OT,but what do you think of David Shade?

    LikeLike


  14. on January 2, 2009 at 2:51 pm Tupac Chopra

    roissy:

    When you see her again in January it will be too late to make fun of her for not responding. Too much time will have passed. Any reference, however cocky, to some long ago email will strike her as the beta move of a man who remembered something written by an ostensibly lower value girl.

    A good reminder for me re: memories. I have a good memory and I sometime have to watch what I say to my prospects lest I seem beta. Learning to mimic the blase ADHD quality of those in the bar/nightclub scene was a challenge for me.

    The flipside of commenter Whiskey’s accurate analysis — that the soft polygamy of the feminized West means less concern by beta males for the misfortunes of women and children — is that those beta males are also less likely to admire the alpha males and follow them into battle. Instead, they will learn from the alphas and adjust their behavior such that they are, in practice, continually usurping alpha power for a shot at all that free flowing pussy.

    “Whiskeygeddon”

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  15. on January 2, 2009 at 3:00 pm Sebastian Flyte

    Emailer 2 makes some gold points. My game plumbed a big trough when I read Devlin et al. It was the resentment, it boiled up and I came to despise women, and not in a healthy neg fashion, but in an ignorative one. After a spurt of will following digestion of all the PUA material I foundered on a rock of resentment once the whole matrix became clear, clear and crystallised with Devlin. And Devlin bleeds into most Roissy posts in one way or another, so it is continuously reinforced. It’s tough for betas to overcome the resentment. Sometimes I envy guys who don’t dig or understand ‘macro’ issues and just get on with it, but we here must see grim trends in everything, every little reaction, shit test, news article… it can bring the whole fucking mind to anchor! The truth hurts.

    —————————–

    My advice to guys stuck in a game-rut: use negs. Use negs A LOT. Open with negs. Close with negs. Dance and sing and party and surround yourself with a sweet ethereal air of negs. My game went into nosedive once I stopped using negs. The old Mystery Method was right, all the natural-game/rsd/newagey/even lovesystems guys who came to frown on negs are WRONG. Negs are a perfect combination of IOD and DHV. USE THEM!

    Oh, and its important to get the Mystery Method book, like emailer 2 did. Not Magic Bullets. Not Natural Art of Seduction. Mystery Method. Almost everything you need is in it – it is deep, deep as tombs. I just perused A3 last night and realized that the bait-hook-reel-release model is a poetic summation of all flirtation. The whole book is like a great poem you just keep finding more and more in.

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  16. on January 2, 2009 at 3:00 pm Sparks123

    Your math skills are a little faulty. Going from zero to zero does not equal “quadrupled.”

    That’s why I’ve always thought David DeAngelo’s “Double Your Dating” was so delightfully ironic.

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  17. on January 2, 2009 at 3:05 pm Zdeno

    PhD guy: Avoid banging your students. Out of the jillions of hot girls in the world, why pursue one of the 20 or so that can jeopardize your career? Also, you are reading way too much into her request for help. Chill.

    Beta Guy: Nothing wrong with a healthy hatred of the people and institutions that are actively working to undermine Western Civilization. Chicks, on the other hand, are pretty awesome and not deserving of your ill will. Not only is hating women unfair…blame our EEA for their capricious ways… but it will also sabotage your dealings with them.

    Stalkee: From your email, I have deduced the following: 1) You are at least good looking enough to have a stalker, and 2) You make enough to live in the upper east side. This is enough for me to offer my hand in marriage, with the following conditions:

    1) No prenuptial agreement whatsoever

    2) An allowance of one mistress for every point below ten on the hotness scale you are

    3) A 6+ figure dowry, to be arranged between your father and I

    I await your response.

    Zdeno

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  18. on January 2, 2009 at 3:09 pm K.

    I’m an academic and have been in situations similar to the first letter-writer. I don’t see much evidence that the student was pursuing the letter-writer. If she had emailed him her phone number or asked to meet him off-campus or had come to office hours and tried to figure out what kind of girls he dated, that would be pursuing. A girl who is attracted to her teacher is turned on by the fact that he can’t really respond and that she has to work for his attention. When girls pursue their teachers, they pursue hard.

    Girls don’t distinguish between different types of interest in a guy. A guy can think that a girl has a cool personality but is fat and he would never try to sleep with her. Girls don’t think like that. With girls, there’s a really fine line between being attracted, being intrigued, interested in his mind, flirting with him to get a better grade, and wanting to be romantically involved. How a guy responds determines where he ends up. If a guy responds timidly, he usually ends up in the friend zone. Since the writer can’t escalate while he’s her TA and he is not as intriguing when he pursues, he should just wait until he’s no longer her TA.

    The guy’s email was just too casual but also too passive. It sounds a little sleazy but it also expects the girl to bother with the details of hitting on him. If she responds, it ruins her plausible deniability. He gave away too much of his authority and personal distance. He should just play it off as if nothing happened and wait until the girl approaches again. Then he should be professional and courteous but also try to find out the girl’s passions and interests. Just run regular rapport and comfort game, and then try to give the girl some excuse to contact him after class is over.

    The letter-writer sounds a little desperate. If his appearance, body language, and tonality are solid enough that he can pick up girls in his daily life, then something like a quarter of the girls in his class should have a crush on him. Authority is that attractive! He should focus on learning game and applying it to girls who aren’t his students. He can still enjoy the attention of his students. If he wants a way of pursuing students in the future, he should set up a facebook account and joke about facebook in class. Then when the girls interested in him friend him, he has a low-investment way of keeping in touch.

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  19. on January 2, 2009 at 3:16 pm Joe T.

    K –

    the point is it shouldn’t matter whether the student was pursuing the teaching assistant. We know he was very attracted to her, so he should just go into the situation with no expectations other than that it’s an opportunity for him to introduce himself or meet outside the classroom.

    If he’s really interested in her, this may be the one and only opportunity he’ll ever have… so why not take it?

    The trouble with our beta society is that the average guy now has a defeatist attitude from the jump.

    If a girl introduces herself, asks for help, emails you, calls you, smiles at you, and YOU are interested, take it as an opening, and go for it.

    Don’t assume it’s a sexual advance, but don’t assume it isn’t, either!

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  20. on January 2, 2009 at 3:20 pm T. AKA Ricky Raw

    This is hardly true at all; see the Obamas. Unless their enmity towards capitalism and wealth as manifested in America was an elaborate ruse, their subconscious did little to dissuade them from personal profitable pursuits.

    All the reading I’ve read on Obama leads me to believe he is not against money and power, he is against class aristocracy and laissez-faire free market capitalism, because both systems in his mind block someone with his pedigree and abilities from ever achieving the wealth and power he worships. Bureacracy, class warfare and socialism are the systems that would allow Barack Obama to reach the heights he has.

    Hating capitalism and the current aristocracy is not always the same as hating wealth and power. Sometimes people hate capitalism and current aristocracy precisely BECAUSE they love wealth and power so much, and view those two things as the barriers standing in the way of them achieving it. Barack to me has shown so much naked, transparent ambition to run at such a young age with so little experience that I think he not only loves power and wealth but feels somewhat entitled to it.

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  21. on January 2, 2009 at 3:25 pm roissy

    My advice to guys stuck in a game-rut: use negs. Use negs A LOT. Open with negs. Close with negs. Dance and sing and party and surround yourself with a sweet ethereal air of negs.

    sebastian, well said. the original mystery method is still the go-to blueprint for tight game, and negs are a core component of that. don’t be afraid to use negs, and don’t listen to those naysayers who rail against them as the tool of bitterboys. negs are not insults, but they are edgy. throw them out there. nothing brings a sparkle to an indifferent girl’s eyes faster than a well-placed neg.

    “whoa, settle down! i can see your tonsils.”

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  22. on January 2, 2009 at 3:26 pm ez

    to quote myself last night: “you guys are so mean to me. that’s why i’m sitting over here.”

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  23. on January 2, 2009 at 3:47 pm MonacoMonarch

    Great post Today Roissy! Plenty of golden nuggets to capture my attention. Keep it up!

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  24. on January 2, 2009 at 3:58 pm Wtf, Ducks?

    “All the reading I’ve read on Obama leads me to believe he is not against money and power, he is against class aristocracy and laissez-faire free market capitalism, because both systems in his mind block someone with his pedigree and abilities from ever achieving the wealth and power he worships.”–T

    Precisely. But it is still difficult to determine whether his resentment, and that of his wife, is manufactured or is indeed the earnest expression of socialistic thinking. The two might even be indistinguishable.

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  25. on January 2, 2009 at 4:01 pm epiclolz

    I don’t understand the hate on the Neg anyhow… a well executed Neg results in a “oh no you didn’t” jawdrop/followed by a giggle/smile…. then maybe a flirty punch…

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  26. on January 2, 2009 at 4:29 pm Joe T.

    Aren’t “negs” what we used to call “banter” in a less cynical age?

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  27. on January 2, 2009 at 4:35 pm Cannon's Canon

    “Normally, asking a question is very beta”

    This was a memorable article I came across on the subject. http://www.adventures-of-a-pua.com/all-hail-2-the-powr-of-the-txt/

    I’ve been amazed at how even short email exchanges can reveal an alpha or beta mindset. Send a girl an email/text with no followup required and she will chase your conversation – ask a question and you risk looking desperate for her attention.

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  28. on January 2, 2009 at 4:43 pm Cannon's Canon

    To the natural beta: squats and deadlifts. No need to be self-conscious if you’re not a weightroom workhorse – most pussy betas in the gym stay far away from these exercises, athletic or not. Just eight or ten workouts and you’ll feel a natural testosterone boost.

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  29. on January 2, 2009 at 5:13 pm agnostic

    Grad student dude — next time, emphasize that you have a busy schedule, but that you have an opening at some time and place, so she should drop by then.

    If a student is attracted to you, at this point she probably doesn’t want you to say anything like you’re totally on to her. She wants to creep steadily closer to you, making sure you don’t notice each move, until she’s right next to you, when you proceed to sweep her off her feet.

    They’re like thieves who drop their weapons and tip-toe toward the security guard.

    So make sure you lay out everything for her before she’s standing next to you — if you make her ponder and decide key parts of the plan, it’s like you’ve looked over your shoulder too early when she was lurking to surprise you.

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  30. on January 2, 2009 at 5:14 pm whiskey

    Roissy, that was my thought also, that beta men would stop cooperating and following the leadership of Alpha men.

    T —

    Obama hates the White Middle class, see his Church and Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, who railed against Whitey and the middle class with a regularity you could time by the calendar. Obama is part of what a NYT writer called “the Gentry” which would include the Kennedy dynasty, the professional pols (Clinton, Biden, Cuomo, etc. dynasties) and the various financial, entertainment, legal, and media classes.

    All united in their hatred of the middling/middle classes, particularly Whites, who are things like engineers, machinists, plumbers (!!!) and so on. Obama particularly hates meritocratic advancement, like most men of his race and background, but possibly not as much as the White Upper class “Gentry” such as the Kennedys.

    What Obama and the like want is a total lock by what amounts to an aristocracy, with Blacks, Latinos, Gays, and most importantly rich, connected, White elites holding all real power levels and entry points into careers. Emphasizing stuff like Lawyers and the Media personalities and denigrating things like Engineering and Entrepreneurial stuff (which by transforming and shaking up society threatens the lock on power).

    Obama and Michelle certainly feel entitled to power, but one has to understand that there are two models to wealth and power: the more “flat” and non-hierarchical ones based on various frontiers of opportunity, with not much certain and lots of destruction, creation, and mobility up and down the ladders of wealth, and the more “class based” or aristocratic model where powerful but limited in number White elites combine with non-Whites and Gays, Lesbians, etc. to form a model that “locks out” competitive threats.

    In a way it’s all about women. If you have a society that runs on a narrow aristocracy, you get a soft polygamy, with the few men of power monopolizing all the women and facing little threat by guys like “Joe the Plumber.” If you look at the personal fury that say, Joe the Plumber or Sarah Palin generated, vs. the acclaim that Caroline Kennedy gets, including especially from Obama, things become clear. Socialism = class aristocracy. Think Fidel’s family rule over Cuba, and all his court hangers on.

    Of course, there is a reason why Single Women voted 70-29 for Obama. Women LOVE dynasties and Kings and Princes and complex, social hierarchies that lock most men out. Even women with sons like this, when their sons are likely to be locked out of mating/reproductive success. Women are just hard-wired for that sort of thing and Obama’s posing as the King ala JFK is powerful. Though it breeds beta Male resentment, among Whites particularly large. I doubt his ability to construct a patronage network to give lots of beta White guys anything to build loyalty.

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  31. on January 2, 2009 at 5:22 pm SteveWood

    As for the university frowning upon relationships between teaching assistants and students, fuck ‘em … They have no right to interfere with the social lives of two consenting adults. You best be quiet and discrete about it, though, to avoid accusations of favoritism from other students. But at the end of the day, your right to privacy should trump the school’s politically-correct paternalism.

    The operative word in that last sentence is “should.” Yes, the right to privacy SHOULD win out, but at a modern American university, it generally does not. Things vary slightly from institution to institution, but the grad student could be getting himself into a career-destroying incident if he’s not careful. Seriously. People who don’t work in academic settings have no idea how utterly PC they are and how little true freedom there. His instinct to wait until after he’s no longer her TA is the right one.

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  32. on January 2, 2009 at 5:26 pm Maria

    See what you did?

    You make guys hate us girls.
    You make us hate guys.

    what do you want from us, roissy? not love for sure, i read somewhere you don’t believe in marriage, i assume you don’t want children as well…you investing your time in what exactly?

    I don’t get you 🙂

    carpe diem, roissy! life is too short.
    besos.

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  33. on January 2, 2009 at 5:26 pm DeCaelis

    I taught at a University for ten years. In my first year teaching a female student who was very hot made it quite known to me that she was interested. She would flirt with me after class, makes suggestive comments, and even wrote an erotic essay in the language class I was teaching. The essay began, “Just as the butterfly opens the dewy petals of the rose to taste the sweet nectar inside, so I would like you to open my dewy petals to taste me…” I kid you not.

    I invited her over my place one evening so we could go over the essay together. We ended up having sex. We continued to have sex for the next nine months. She confessed to me one day that she was so horny after one of our class’s flirt sessions that she went into the women’s bathroom and masturbated.

    She loved the thought of fucking one of her teachers, as I loved the thought of fucking one of my students. As Roissy says, every girl has her inner whore.

    In my time teaching every year I would have at least one or two students who were clearly interested. Usually I would not pursue them, for the sake of safety, but on occasion one would be so obvious in her interest it was hard to resist. It is true, girls that age, or any age really, love forbidden fun.

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  34. on January 2, 2009 at 5:31 pm DeCaelis

    I have many stories like that from academia. It is a place of strange contradictions.

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  35. on January 2, 2009 at 5:31 pm agnostic

    And since you brought it up, don’t tell her your age, unless you look really old and haggard for your age. It’s not enough to really freak her out, but she might pause, and she doesn’t need to know anyway. Roissy’s answer works: tell her to guess, say pretty close, and then change the subject or ask her, “and you’re… what, a sophomore?”

    Also avoid the “when I was your age” or “when I was an undergrad” talk. If anything, neg her about being an undergrad, but then hold out the promise of redemption. Like, “undergrads usually have this bad trait (re: their studies), but you seem like you could be different.”

    And don’t be afraid to neg her while having a playful grin or smile when she messes up. Example of solving an equation. This is what her work looks like:

    2x = x + 8
    -x….-x

    You: “Ok, so then what do we get on the left side of the equation?”

    Her: “Ummmm, 2x equals….”

    You, with playful look of disbelief: “2x minus x…?”

    Her: “Umm… omigod, duh!!! I mean, EEEEEXXXXXX equals eight. Omigod, sometimes I swear I’m such an idiottt!”

    Just smile and laugh playfully back, no need to dwell on it.

    Another good idea is to tell her to make flashcards for key terms — most girls are so neurotic that they do this anyway, but just in case she didn’t. You drilling her on flashcards is a pretty authoritative position, and again you can lightly bust on her for getting one wrong.

    Just don’t do it for too long, or she’ll go from seeking-your-approval nervous to shutting-down-inside nervous.

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  36. on January 2, 2009 at 5:33 pm PA

    Whiskey

    Socialism = class aristocracy. …. dynasties and Kings and Princes and complex, social hierarchies that lock most men out.

    Your analysis above makes a lot of sense. So it’s a good thing to know what happens to class aristocracies from time to time. Écrasez l’Infâme.

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  37. on January 2, 2009 at 5:35 pm Wocka

    Maria,

    Roissy speaks the truth. He ain’t making anybody hate anybody, shit, he even gave Mr. Beta some new aged stop your negative thinking advice (it warmed the cockle of my heart when i read that)

    and can anybody talk about politics without turning this place into fucking stormfront?

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  38. on January 2, 2009 at 5:36 pm agnostic

    The essay began, “Just as the butterfly opens the dewy petals of the rose to taste the sweet nectar inside, so I would like you to open my dewy petals to taste me…” I kid you not.

    What year was this, out of curiosity? Sluttiness among young people has been declining since about 1991, so most of the stories I hear like this are from before that. And most songs about under-18 girls are from before that time also. Same with TV shows or movies — like Little Darlings, where some 15 y.o. tries to seduce an over-30 camp coach.

    Ah, to have been an educator then…

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  39. on January 2, 2009 at 5:43 pm joel

    Just noting another reason why (beta) males should hate some institutions, Norway just banned the buying of sex (but not the selling of it.)

    Now, who is the target of this law?

    Women can get sex anytime they want for free if they are at least average or a bit below. Almost any girl but a fatty can get sex quite easily.

    Gay men can get sex easily too. And, the way these laws work, male prostitution is seldom targeted.

    Good looking young men can get sex.

    Wealthy men can maintain a mistress and that would likely not be considered prostitution.

    Now, how about everybody else? The bottom 50% of straight men? I guess Norway says that their average unmarried male can just forget about sex. I suspect that many (most) married men don’t do much better.

    So, the Norwegian law is clear to men. Improve your seduction techniques or be celibate.

    Women are behind these laws. Hating these women would be a natural response, and, appropriate.

    I think betas should form a voting block.

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  40. on January 2, 2009 at 5:50 pm Maria

    Wocka

    I agree with a lot of what he says here, he’s funny and smart, I know, but also very cruel. Sometime (it’s not rare) unfair.

    “Reading your blog makes me hate public institutions and women.” (A.M.)

    See?

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  41. on January 2, 2009 at 5:56 pm Sparks123

    I think betas should form a voting block.

    The group that was dubbed “angry white males” after the 1994 elections that gave Republicans both houses of congress was in essence, a white beta voting bloc. Somehow they let themselves slip into complacency.

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  42. on January 2, 2009 at 5:57 pm Maria

    And, and for the guy who said something to me the other day (I don’t remember):

    yes, baby, never married guys over 40 are gay.
    you’re young (late 20’s?) that’s why you don’t realize that yet, but since I’m a woman, even younger than you, you know, we see things more clearly 😉

    xoxo

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  43. on January 2, 2009 at 6:06 pm PA

    Somehow they let themselves slip into complacency.

    They elected Bush in 2000 based on the false impression that he was a right wing conservative.

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  44. on January 2, 2009 at 6:20 pm Sebastian Flyte

    “Women can get sex anytime they want for free if they are at least average or a bit below. Almost any girl but a fatty can get sex quite easily.

    Gay men can get sex easily too. And, the way these laws work, male prostitution is seldom targeted.

    Good looking young men can get sex.

    Wealthy men can maintain a mistress and that would likely not be considered prostitution.

    Now, how about everybody else? The bottom 50% of straight men? I guess Norway says that their average unmarried male can just forget about sex. I suspect that many (most) married men don’t do much better.”

    This is sheer brilliance. The elites of our societies dont understand the frustration of not knowing when, or even if, you will have sex next. It is a black hole of inequality too great to be seen.

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  45. on January 2, 2009 at 6:22 pm Maria

    Hahah ;P

    “Turn off the TV, shut out the whitenoise of the greater culture yammering less than useless platitudes into your ear, and keep your true friends close.”

    Roissy, how many time you watched Fight Club?

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  46. on January 2, 2009 at 6:28 pm Wocka

    Joel,

    Amazing and at the same time not surprising, the darwinian apocalypse is gaining momentum. All men have to stand up to this lest the entire world turn into Africa and Mexico.

    BUT, it is not OK to hate women. It is natural for women to despise weak men. Men must accept this truth and deal with it. Betas have to take on alpha traits and stop being castrati, it’s that simple.

    Maria again,
    I know A.M. said that, but that statement is still pretty fucking ignorant. Modern Beta’s problem is two fold. First, he wants to fuck women that are out his attractiveness scale. Unexceptional men are NOT entitled to fuck above average women. But nobody wants to say that. Our society runs on the false hope that anyone can achieve anything. Betas grow up watching tv shows and movies where ugly men get great women using Beta game. And for every deficiency you have there’s a product you can buy that offers a solution. Naturally, Beta fails big time at this game.

    Beta is even more confounded when he tries to hook up with women that are in his range, because he is still “being a nice guy”. But nobody teaches Beta how to be a man. And nobody teaches him that all women no matter how fat and ugly they may be, still despise weak men. If for some reason an average man finds himself in a relationship with a woman he was “meant to be with” he will soon find himself shit tested into oblivion because he’s still playing by the official rules.

    What the fuck was i talking about again? Oh yeah, betas, stop being crying blubbering vaginas, learn game, learn to be happy, or just die.

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  47. on January 2, 2009 at 6:31 pm Wocka

    “And, and for the guy who said something to me the other day (I don’t remember):

    yes, baby, never married guys over 40 are gay.
    you’re young (late 20’s?) that’s why you don’t realize that yet, but since I’m a woman, even younger than you, you know, we see things more clearly ”

    ok, now you’re just a fucking troll. go fuck yourself.

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  48. on January 2, 2009 at 6:37 pm PA

    Oh yeah, betas, stop being crying blubbering vaginas, learn game, learn to be happy, or just die.

    I agree with you, but I’ll just add that much of the anger comes from Betas who thought that they were doing all the right things — ie, becoming a man — by studying hard, being nice, etc. but then belatedly found out that much of what they were taught about attracting women was a lie.

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  49. on January 2, 2009 at 6:42 pm Wocka

    “I agree with you, but I’ll just add that much of the anger comes from Betas who thought that they were doing all the right things — ie, becoming a man — by studying hard, being nice, etc. but then belatedly found out that much of what they were taught about attracting women was a lie.”

    absolutely agree. I was implying that, but wasn’t clear enough.

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  50. on January 2, 2009 at 6:45 pm Maria

    “ok, now you’re just a fucking troll.”

    You know what gets me? the fact that Roissy knows it too, but he just don’t say so and wouldn’t write about it because it’s not convenient.
    I’m not saying he’s gay, he isn’t.
    He will get married and have children like any normal guy.

    I forgot the word you use in english…he is in…den..denial?
    Feel free to correct me. =)
    Well, I guess you understand.

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  51. on January 2, 2009 at 6:49 pm Maria

    heheh…AND you told me to fuck myself. You’re a cutie Wocka, I’m falling in love.

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  52. on January 2, 2009 at 7:01 pm Eurosabra

    “Game” isn’t really revenge; the only REAL “revenge” would be to become an actual predator and rapist, while Game is just a way of turning resource-denial (sex) based on female denial of consent into resource-dependence (sex) based on female consent. Feminists like to obscure the issues with talk of “male entitlement” which is their way of saying that men don’t have the right to get angry about the “pretty lies.” So I don’t really see what turning up the volume on the male stoicism gets you except men who are more detached from their emotions, which is a question independent of how many women you get and their quality. I may be a special case to the extent that I truly care about stuff besides sex and my work, but I only do the work because I am forced to–and, admittedly, parts of it are more interesting than suffering in silence from my various disabilities–but “toughen up” is a less-than-ideal answer. There must be something in Western man–it used to be called character, I guess–to fill in the gaps.

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  53. on January 2, 2009 at 7:26 pm Wocka

    wait, who’s talking about revenge?

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  54. on January 2, 2009 at 7:36 pm whiskey

    Wocka —

    You have a couple of logic errors.

    First, no one bothered to teach beta men “game” because it was not needed. What HAS changed is women.

    Guys got married (in a generally assortative manner) to women without “game” and there was not a cultural wave of anger of lots of guys being priced out of sex/relationships whatsoever.

    Moreover, your argument (that I’ve heard women make many times and is backed up by ZILCH data) which is that men have ideas “above their station” and should simply slink back ashamed, does not hold up because it would then entail lots of women who were of average looks without sex/relationships. This is not the case, even fairly fat/unattractive women have relationships. No average woman sits at home without dates, ESPECIALLY in her twenties. What is the case is a drastic swing to power to a few “Alpha” men and women. A swing of power that creates a loser class of lots of average men.

    You can see this in the sort of historical continuity that Western stories have told men since well, Beowulf and Homer. To be a man is to be brave, physically and politically, self-sacrificing, respectful of women and others lesser on the social scale, independent, and honor-bound (i.e. not breaking one’s words, maneuvering for unjust advantage).

    NONE of that, acting like Beowulf or King Arthur or John Wayne gets the girl now. It fails completely and absolutely and the very fact that Beta men have no clue is a massive tell that the culture shifted, rapidly, to a point that most men have no understanding whatsoever of women, what drives them, motivates them, informs their choices of men, and so on.

    PA is quite correct, and you fail to see the danger IMHO. Betas have another route, one that you discount too readily. It’s the violence veto, by changing into essentially the British Underclass. The short-cut is merely becoming violent and dangerous, a true thug. It works. It gets women. It puts formerly “Alpha” guys now at a disadvantage (look at Mu’Min’s account of being unable to sarge due to physical danger) because the current Alpha game only works when Betas play by the rules. They are heavily incentivized to simply throw down the rule book and stomp all over it.

    Drudge still has up the New Year’s eve story of all those Brit guys getting “glassed” with the blood all over them. Shocking pictures.

    Maria — I’ve seen/heard the same fairy tales from women. They cite no data, and seek to use typical female shaming culture to “control” men. The price for the unmarried guys past 40 is that you as an older woman will get nothing but shoved out of the way by these guys as you age.

    Women frankly are stupid about the long term consequences. Should perhaps you have a son or two, they are far more likely to become angry, bitter guys without women in their lives. With daughters, pointlessly pursuing one badboy loser after another. Alone, well look at how most young men treat older women NOW. Pencil in treatment that is at least 40% worse, and that’s yourself in your fifties.

    I’m sure it gives you a sense of entitlement and power to label these guys as “gay” but recall you’ll depend on them for help/support as they and you age. It’s not going to be pretty.

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  55. on January 2, 2009 at 7:45 pm PA

    No average woman sits at home without dates, ESPECIALLY in her twenties.
    – Whiskey

    Your sister’s out
    She’s on a date
    You just sit at home
    And masturbate

    — Billy Joel, “Captain Jack”

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  56. on January 2, 2009 at 7:53 pm Cannon's Canon

    Since this comment thread has gone to shit, I would like to share that my buddy and I have been playing video games all day and using the word ‘beta’ as the exclusive trash talking term. Madden linebacker misses a tackle – he’s a fucking beta. First person shooter gets shot in the face – what a beta. NBA2K guard gets ripped – stupid beta showboat.

    I’m working on a Black Rob-style remix… “I’m gettin ready to put yall up on something man! When you see something weak, that shit is beta! Dude got a tote bag slung over his shoulder at the bar, that’s beta! Son standing with his drink in front of his chest, imaginary lat syndrome, that’s beta! Gets drunk and opens the same set twice by accident, shit’s beta! Let’s go…. I stole a chick from this dude, he was BETA! shoulda seen the gifts that he bought this bitch, BETA! gave the girl diamonds and pearls, i mean BETA! shoulda seen them wrists iced down from a BETA! now game is not a problem see my style is not BETA! spit a few negs like i thought she was BETA! befriended the guys in her group who were BETA! became the leader of all her men, they were BETA!”

    contributions encouraged!

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  57. on January 2, 2009 at 7:56 pm Anonymous

    Despite all the doom and gloom statistics, most people still get married. The divorce rate has gone down since 1981, and in general, the more education a man and woman have, the less likely they are to divorce. The longer a man and woman wait to get married, the less likely they are to divorce, in general. So where is the fire? Civilization seems to preceding apace.

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  58. on January 2, 2009 at 8:01 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Whiskey said: “I’m sure it gives you a sense of entitlement and power to label these guys as “gay” but recall you’ll depend on them for help/support as they and you age. It’s not going to be pretty.”

    Here’s evidence of that:

    When I first moved into the condo community where I live 15 years ago, if it snowed, the men would help all the women get their cars out. Now no one does this — with the exception of one fat old, bald guy who is a creepy Beta who the women can’t stand (I’ve overheard them talk about him). Decades of sexual harrassment laws and male bashing (or something) must have sent the message to the younger generation that you don’t help women out.

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  59. on January 2, 2009 at 8:24 pm Wocka

    Hey Whiskey,

    whoa whoa, you got me all wrong. I actually agree with everything you say.

    especially this
    “PA is quite correct, and you fail to see the danger IMHO. Betas have another route, one that you discount too readily. It’s the violence veto, by changing into essentially the British Underclass. The short-cut is merely becoming violent and dangerous, a true thug. It works. It gets women. It puts formerly “Alpha” guys now at a disadvantage (look at Mu’Min’s account of being unable to sarge due to physical danger) because the current Alpha game only works when Betas play by the rules. They are heavily incentivized to simply throw down the rule book and stomp all over it.”

    as for the men “above their station”, women have fallen prey to this more so than men, that’s why we’re in this mess. modern society has given women the permission to constantly look for the upgrade without impunity.

    i just have a problem with guys who never have gotten anything, get 5’s and not still not be happy. I’ve seen a lot of average men foolishly leave “average” women thinking they can do better. What happens without fail is that the guy doesn’t get laid for another year or two, then whines about having made a mistake.

    i know average women are always getting laid, what i’m trying to say that a lot of men today don’t even have the ability to game then. I’ve experienced this first hand myself as a mega-beta.

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  60. on January 2, 2009 at 8:31 pm Maria

    whiskey, I don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t live there, I think you all sound bitter towards the subject and that explains a lot to me. This is very different. Sad.
    But I don’t believe ALL women from USA are that bad!?? Most of them? No…
    you might be searching for the wrong kind.

    Never married men over 40 are gay. As a rule. But there are exceptions. Is it better now?

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  61. on January 2, 2009 at 8:41 pm SteveWood

    Decades of sexual harrassment laws and male bashing (or something) must have sent the message to the younger generation that you don’t help women out.

    I think it’s even simpler than that: Society has sent a message to men that women don’t need them. Look around; the message is everywhere.

    If women don’t need us, why would we help them? I don’t think it’s a deliberately vengeful or mean-spirited thing. I think it literally does not occur to (most) men that they should spontaneous offer to help women just because they’re women. That’s a big, big change from just a couple of decades ago.

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  62. on January 2, 2009 at 8:49 pm Maria

    american men truly hate women.
    now I get it.

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  63. on January 2, 2009 at 8:57 pm epiclolz

    I love women =)

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  64. on January 2, 2009 at 9:23 pm joel

    Opps. Left out another group that gets free sex with ease under our restrictive sex laws. Powerful politicians.

    The sitting governor of NY state (no, not the the recent gov, the “disgraced Spitzer” who paid for sex) Mr. Paterson, is on record as having had sex with multiple state employees and even got a state job for a women AFTER he had sex with her. He even used state money to pay for some of the motel bills.

    A bit of a double standard, I think in part because Paterson is black and you know how those people are or something. But, I think the main reason is that paying for sex is beta, and using your power to get sex (like Clinton and Paterson) shows you are an alpha. Women won’t tolerate betas in high office, apparently, but they rallied for Clinton. And Paterson’s activities didn’t even register with most women.

    So, Spitzer, the beta, got shown the door, Patterson (the alpha) was made governor.

    So guys, be aware, being nice to women, like a beta does, only earns their contempt. If you are a big time politician, NEVER pay for sex. The voters will never forgive you.

    Nobody said life was fair or makes sense. But, life is a lot easier once you get the hang of it.

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  65. on January 2, 2009 at 9:24 pm joel

    Maria,

    American men don’t hate women. For woman haters, you should consider the Taliban.

    American women just aren’t very useful these days to men, is all.

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  66. on January 2, 2009 at 9:24 pm ez

    i don’t think it’s so bad as you all think. most men i know are very chivalric, or can be. there is nothing i love more than to be helped by a man when i’m totally incompetent. most women may not want it these days, but in my experience men are still very happy to light cigarettes & change flat tires etc., even –most heartening of all!– when they are not sexually interested in you.

    also: maria

    unfortunately for us, all men kind of hate women. at least most of the men worth having seem to…

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  67. on January 2, 2009 at 9:35 pm epiclolz

    Chivalry has a limit though, after enough negative reactions to basic kindness, you learn to dial back the chivalry thing. It is however nice to meet a woman who is grateful when basic kindness is applied.

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  68. on January 2, 2009 at 9:36 pm epiclolz

    Chivalry Caveat – It should only be applied to those who have earned the right to deserve your kindness. =)

    LikeLike


  69. on January 2, 2009 at 9:37 pm David Alexander

    Reading your blog makes me hate public institutions and women. I won’t go postal or anything like that, but I definitely won’t hesitate to discriminate against women and alpha males in the workplace when possible

    Despite the fact that David Alexander isn’t getting laid and watches alpha males collude on women, he some how doesn’t feel the need to discriminate against alpha males or females at work, and he’s still relatively warm and caring towards his niece and nephew.

    In other words, being sexless is not an excuse for being a little mean bitch. Please stop being a whiny little cunt, grow a pair of balls, shut the fuck up and go enjoy your life and then maybe a girl might like you.

    I agree with you, but I’ll just add that much of the anger comes from Betas who thought that they were doing all the right things — ie, becoming a man — by studying hard, being nice, etc. but then belatedly found out that much of what they were taught about attracting women was a lie.

    PA, the problem is that while this strategy worked in previous eras, it only sold men off as beta providers to women who were desperate for financial support and children. As I’ve stated on numerous occasions with no responses from anybody here in the comments section, why is it magically better for force women to mate with men that they’re not really attracted to? Does one really believe that beta males will magically become less bitter if they’re in marriages where their wives only tolerate them for the ability to pay the mortgage?

    When I first moved into the condo community where I live 15 years ago, if it snowed, the men would help all the women get their cars out. Now no one does this

    Why would I risk injuring my back for a female that I don’t know when she’s perfectly capable of shoveling her own car? Now, if I had a snowblower and enough time, I’d consider doing it as a courtesy…

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  70. on January 2, 2009 at 9:41 pm Maria

    all men kind of hate women. at least most of the men worth having seem to…

    nanana. no, no. don’t believe it, ez.
    the guys from here love women. men are suposed to like women. not only for sex (like roissy – sorry baby, I had to say). it’s pretty different from liking sex. they like us, girls, what we are, what we do, etc. They fall in love, they want to marry and have children, they are romantic, they suffer, they fight…I don’t understand why these guys are so bitter. Why? you girls must hate them…
    I love men =) They’re awesome. And they smell good.

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  71. on January 2, 2009 at 9:53 pm joel

    “When I first moved into the condo community where I live 15 years ago, if it snowed, the men would help all the women get their cars out. Now no one does this”

    I was raised to do this sort of courtesy for women. But, no more. They are our equals and competitors in every area of life where they want to compete. Such is “progress.”

    I realized I had made a lot of progress in overcoming my bad attitude when I didn’t even think about giving my seat on a bus to a tired looking women with a kid. Never crossed my mine to give her my seat. I felt a bit conflicted afterwards, but I decided I had done the right thing (nothing.) I don’t hold doors or nothin’ for ladies these days. No reason to.

    Now, is this a beta or an alpha quality?

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  72. on January 2, 2009 at 10:00 pm ez

    joel:

    it depends if you’re beta or not already. there is probably no bigger turn-off than a beta guy racing around the car to open my door. but as a girl who only goes for alpha males, the chivalrous alpha wins every time over the guy who won’t give up his seat. part of the thing that kind of works about chivalry is that, done right, it puts me in my place. i can’t shovel my car out as i am weak & useless with tools. i appreciate being recognized as unequal to men in that way. also, it gives you many more opportunities to make a girl jealous. you open the door for every woman (at least the one’s who seem they might like it) & guarantee you will get a lot more female attention. it’s not the 90s anymore.

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  73. on January 2, 2009 at 10:01 pm ez

    god that apostrophe. i didn’t.

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  74. on January 2, 2009 at 10:01 pm Maria

    Joel, you

    super omega. this is sad.

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  75. on January 2, 2009 at 10:01 pm David Alexander

    I don’t hold doors or nothin’ for ladies these days. No reason to.

    I hold doors for people regardless of sex. OTOH, I’ve held doors open on the subway for a mom, and I helped a woman down the stairs with her stroller. And like a good little smug beta, I felt better about myself for doing those things…

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  76. on January 2, 2009 at 10:11 pm Steve Johnson

    There’s a woman at my office who’s a pretend feminist. She often says things about how women can do anything men can do, blah, blah, blah…

    So whenever we go through a doorway I make her open it for me. I’ll just stand there and look at the door then look over at her and give her a small shrug or clear my throat with a look like “well, what are you waiting for?”. Amuses me to no end.

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  77. on January 2, 2009 at 10:13 pm Steve Johnson

    “PA, the problem is that while this strategy worked in previous eras, it only sold men off as beta providers to women who were desperate for financial support and children. As I’ve stated on numerous occasions with no responses from anybody here in the comments section, why is it magically better for force women to mate with men that they’re not really attracted to?”

    Easy answer; women really will be attracted to “beta” guys if they marry them early and don’t fuck alphas for 10 years first.

    Since getting pumped and dumped ultimately makes women miserable (either they wind up alone and are miserable or they become super shrews in marriage because the man she marries doesn’t live up to frankenboyfriend), women would be much happier in a society where they are forced to marry early.

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  78. on January 2, 2009 at 10:17 pm joel

    “it depends if you’re beta or not already.”

    It sounds like ez thinks that courtesy is neither alpha nor beta. She may be right. So, if a beta meets her, he should treat her without any special courtesy (like shoveling her snow), whereas if you are an alpha, shoveling her snow will be of benefit as you pursue your ultimate goal.

    Beta boys, take note. It sounds like if you are a beta, in her eyes, any and all attempts to show her courtesy for her gender will only makes things worse.

    I wonder how widespread that attitude is? Well, it just reinforces Roissy’s teaching that being “nice” to a woman is in general a big mistake.

    Well, one thing is for sure. If I had discovered this blog site four or five years ago, I would have saved some serious money, and had more fun in the bargain.

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  79. on January 2, 2009 at 10:17 pm Rick

    “BUT, it is not OK to hate women. It is natural for women to despise weak men. Men must accept this truth and deal with it. Betas have to take on alpha traits and stop being castrati, it’s that simple.”

    Fair enough. It is, however, also “natural” for me to get pissed off at the less accomplished men who end up hoarding all the women, the elite/feminist/gay culture which has marginalized the hard-working average male who makes this country work, and the shallow, vapid, classless young white females of today.

    It is also “natural” for me to not only hate institutions and females, but also act to fight back in my interests and other betas’ interests. “Game” is worthless except in individual cases. We need an overthrow of the culture, and then a harsh punishment for those who have thrown our country away for their own thrills. Why do “beta” males sit around complaining, while young slutty females, gays, and alpha males change society for their interests? When do we act? Why should we not? If you have a chance of never, ever getting laid or just being stuck with whales who don’t even treat you well, when do you strike back at the world that has turned against you?

    Maybe you should spit on the next bitch who stares through you in a club. Maybe you should googlebomb the next chick who stops responding to your e-mails. Maybe you should steal and burn all the belongings of the girlfriend who cheats.

    Just do something.

    WOMEN must accept this truth, and deal with it.

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  80. on January 2, 2009 at 10:26 pm Rick

    joel:

    it depends if you’re beta or not already. there is probably no bigger turn-off than a beta guy racing around the car to open my door. but as a girl who only goes for alpha males, the chivalrous alpha wins every time over the guy who won’t give up his seat.
    ……………………………………………………………………….

    You stupid bitch. Chivalry is good or bad. It doesn’t depend on the person. Make up your fucking mind. You deserve to be treated like shit.

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  81. on January 2, 2009 at 10:47 pm David Alexander

    Easy answer; women really will be attracted to “beta” guys if they marry them early and don’t fuck alphas for 10 years first.

    I thank you Steve Johnson for your reply…

    Now, as somebody who believes that women are always permanently attracted to alphas, isn’t the risk at this point that the alphas like Roissy will simply go underground and simply turn to the time honoured practice of cuckolding? Of course, if one feels that this is wrong, could one explain why women aren’t immediately or automatically attracted to alphas?

    frankenboyfriend

    Ah yes, the longing for the magical perfect boyfriend. One could argue that I’m guilty of similar behaviour since I end up comparing any remote female interest to Wellesley Queen and rejecting them for not meeting her “standard”.

    women would be much happier in a society where they are forced to marry early

    I remember somebody noted that this happens by default outside of the big coastal cities where everybody useful and attractive is already matched up at 25 leaving the scraps behind. Supposedly, the marrying early part doesn’t work if there’s a long-lead time needed to establish careers and finances for housing, or if one believes in “having fun” and exploring before settling down to boring old marriage, especially if one aims for a partner within a three year range which is the American average.

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  82. on January 2, 2009 at 10:48 pm epiclolz

    Asymmetric access to females is usually a cause for revolution, some think it is the reason that dominant males established the monogamy system over epic polygamy… nothing worse than a bunch of angry dudes with no girls…. Crowd control if you will… the modern era’s interesting issue is serial polygamy

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  83. on January 2, 2009 at 10:55 pm epiclolz

    Opps I meant serial monogamy… my bad

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  84. on January 2, 2009 at 11:19 pm Smiler

    I don’t hold doors or nothin’ for ladies these days. No reason to.

    Now, is this a beta or an alpha quality?

    It’s an expression of beta frustration, so I guess that makes it beta. I feel the same way, so I know what you’re thinking.

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  85. on January 2, 2009 at 11:28 pm Smiler

    You stupid bitch. Chivalry is good or bad. It doesn’t depend on the person. Make up your fucking mind. You deserve to be treated like shit.

    Dude, don’t stress. She’s going to be a cat lady at the age of forty.

    At any rate, her comment is revealing: it tells us women judge men not by what they do, but by who they are. This is why appearing alpha is so important to women: they don’t care what you’re doing or will do, but they do care about “who” you are (i.e. whether you are alpha or not).

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  86. on January 2, 2009 at 11:35 pm whiskey

    Anon —

    Here’s the gloom and doom: Aug 2008 US Census Bureau — White illegitimacy rate is 41% (you have to add up the categories). In 1965 it was 4%. More single women than married women, first time ever. Divorce rates quite high, about 50% of marriages end in divorce after five years. [Whites are clearly following the lead of the Black community on this, which went from 24% in 1965 to 70% now,]

    In fact, there is ample evidence to suggest that when you control for income, later marriage = greater amount of divorce. It’s probably akin to hoping for Santa Claus to expect pair bonding if the woman (in particular) has lots of sex partners (> 10).

    Maria — you miss the point. 1. The UK went from stiff upper lip to … that. In less than forty years. This could be the US without men invested in women. 2. You repeat your assertion without any data. It’s something women “know” like they will be young and beautiful forever.

    Downside if you are right: very little. Downside if you are wrong: you get treated like dirt and/or invisible. You will get old. You won’t be beautiful. Men won’t pay attention to you anymore past 35 or so. If you want basic respect much less protection from men they had better be well invested in society/women.

    But this is why women can be completely stupid about long term issues — they’d rather play “Mean Girls” from High School than plan for the future because they think they’ll be beautiful forever (the beauty industry dwarfs the world-wide military spending). Far worse than the Apatow tales of the “beta” guy getting a beautiful girl is the beautiful girl’s fantasy that she’ll be DESIRABLE to men past her early thirties. Note, this was not always so. Women were within forty years ago long-term planners.

    “American men truly hate women?”

    You don’t get it — without marriage when it actually matters, most men won’t CARE. About anyone, A group of guys who are desperate, roll the dice gamblers in their forties, are not what I’d want. But that’s just me, I’d rather have someone pick me up off the road than just leave me lying there (as actually happened).

    As a practical matter, the more women sleep with jerks, the more every man will simply act like a jerk. Including making an example of YOU (showing you rude contempt) when you are past your beauty-sell date. Because women responded to jerks.

    ez — “Enough” women prefer jerks and/or punish chivalry or media messages, men will respond to the incentives.

    Women: you get the EXACT kind of man most women or enough women demand. There is no penalty for being a jerk and it’s rewarded (women sleep with them like crazy) so don’t complain when a guy is a jerk. Even if you’ve never slept with one, enough women have to create the ultimate incentive.

    I state this as a man who has observed many young men in the Engineering and IT fields. Rick’s attitudes are no exaggeration and now multiply that into the millions. Scared yet? I am and note also — saying something is “not OK” is like spitting into the wind. Futile when the social forces are strong and not female. Threats to beta guys to continue not sleeping with them are self-defeating and useless. Desperate beta guys are simply beyond women’s control.

    Situational stuff, ala “I fall over for bad boys/Alphas, don’t like Betas doing the same thing,” only engenders a reaction that will require it’s pound of flesh sooner rather than later.

    Why not “share the sex” as well as “share the wealth?” Enough beta guys who are single would vote for that. Particularly since the Alphas would have sleep with the whales. Heck a requirement that the hot chick down the hall has to do the beta guy in alliance with the whale in accounting getting the hot Alpha guy?

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  87. on January 2, 2009 at 11:37 pm Wocka

    “Asymmetric access to females is usually a cause for revolution, some think it is the reason that dominant males established the monogamy system over epic polygamy… nothing worse than a bunch of angry dudes with no girls…. Crowd control if you will… the modern era’s interesting issue is serial monogamy”

    and there’s your issue all perfectly summed up
    (I’m also one of those that think society’s leaders created marriage in order to stabilize it)

    see this:

    “Maybe you should spit on the next bitch who stares through you in a club. Maybe you should googlebomb the next chick who stops responding to your e-mails. Maybe you should steal and burn all the belongings of the girlfriend who cheats.

    Just do something.

    WOMEN must accept this truth, and deal with it.”

    And no, i’m not going to do any of that Rick.

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  88. on January 2, 2009 at 11:42 pm Steve Johnson

    frankenboyfriend

    Ah yes, the longing for the magical perfect boyfriend. One could argue that I’m guilty of similar behaviour since I end up comparing any remote female interest to Wellesley Queen and rejecting them for not meeting her “standard”.

    Nah, frankenboyfriend isn’t quite that. It’s when she dates 10 guys and takes the best traits of each to form her mentally perfect boyfriend. The fact that she’s gone out with men with each of those traits convinces her that this is reasonable.

    This, of course, is ridiculous. A guy who is top on all 10 of her dimensions is out of her league.

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  89. on January 3, 2009 at 12:00 am epiclolz

    Well on the bright side =) If this is truly the landscape of today, you can see it and figure out how to get around the pitfalls and mountains. Victory is much sweeter when the labors are difficult right? Game on.

    As an aside… a pattern that I have been seeing since I was a kid was the phenom where dudes would just run serially through a ton of girls, then finally settle down with the NICE girl. This was definitely a case of having your cake and eating the hell out of it too. Well played indeed. I just wonder if others of both genders have noticed this too?

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  90. on January 3, 2009 at 12:00 am Wtf, Ducks?

    Wouldn’t the remedy to the beta revolution be worse than the disease? Either way it comes off as a false nostrum. Should betas take to heart that advice about how acting alpha will improve their lot and still fail, it will only drive them to the barricades all the swifter. Besides, while a far greater proportion is only acting alpha, this will exacerbate the impression of the discontents that, due to the increase of apparently authentic alpha males, the competition is insurmountable. Notwithstanding game’s utility, it alone cannot snuff this fuse.

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  91. on January 3, 2009 at 12:05 am Days of Broken Arrows

    EZ said: “it depends if you’re beta or not already…. i can’t shovel my car out as i am weak & useless with tools. i appreciate being recognized as unequal to men in that way. ”

    Translation: Betas can shovel her snow, and then when they are exhausted and sweaty they can go home, while she invites the lazy Alpha back to her place for hot cocoa and fucking.

    This, metaphorically, is why this society is degenerating into chaos. Throughout the ages, men’s efforts were appreciated and rewarded, thereby leading to a society that incentified men to work hard.

    Not anymore. Feminism changed that. This brings us back to Roissy’s last post about why hard work isn’t worth the effort — not on women’s behalf anyway.

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  92. on January 3, 2009 at 12:06 am epiclolz

    I love hot cocoa.

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  93. on January 3, 2009 at 12:30 am Smiler

    Translation: Betas can shovel her snow, and then when they are exhausted and sweaty they can go home, while she invites the lazy Alpha back to her place for hot cocoa and fucking.

    Part of the reason why female control of the media is so handy to them is because it provides a means – the means – to keep disseminating inane theories and worse-than-useless advice designed to keep betas as betas. That will keep the betas doing stupid beta (but very handy) stuff like shovelling her snow, in the false (and media-perpetuated) belief that doing so will endear them to her.

    Like Roissy said in the post: “shut out the whitenoise of the greater culture yammering less than useless platitudes into your ear”. These are the memes to which Roissy was referring.

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  94. on January 3, 2009 at 12:32 am David Alexander

    This, metaphorically, is why this society is degenerating into chaos. Throughout the ages, men’s efforts were appreciated and rewarded, thereby leading to a society that incentified men to work hard.

    DoBA, do explain the reward that the beta would have recieved in the earlier era? It’s not like in the 1950s, a man would have recieved sex for shoveling, so do explain the benefit for betas other than a brief “thank you”, especially for an activity that can cause long-term physical injury.

    Nah, frankenboyfriend isn’t quite that. It’s when she dates 10 guys and takes the best traits of each to form her mentally perfect boyfriend.

    Again, thanks for explaining the concept a bit further. Is frankenboyfriend one of those concepts that has a counterpart with males, or is this simply a female-only concern? Mind you, the entire concept of frankenboyfriend seems rather sensible given that after going through various boyfriends one would develop a list of ideal qualities.

    Even if women marry at early ages, what’s to prevent the development of frankenboyfriends at even earlier ages?

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  95. on January 3, 2009 at 12:50 am Realist

    Roissy

    Since you’re doing the mailbag, I’ve been curious about something. What would you do if, perchance, you encountered the love of your life. A beautiful and intelligent woman that captures your heart…….however there’s a catch. She has no interest in alpha males. She wants a beta male. Would you forsake all your alpha male principles for love?

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  96. on January 3, 2009 at 12:54 am mtbrooks

    12 parsecs? Is that some sort of beta trap?

    Oh shit, did I just step right into that?

    LikeLike


  97. on January 3, 2009 at 1:08 am m

    “It is also “natural” for me to not only hate institutions and females, but also act to fight back in my interests and other betas’ interests. “Game” is worthless except in individual cases. We need an overthrow of the culture, and then a harsh punishment for those who have thrown our country away for their own thrills. Why do “beta” males sit around complaining, while young slutty females, gays, and alpha males change society for their interests? When do we act? Why should we not? If you have a chance of never, ever getting laid or just being stuck with whales who don’t even treat you well, when do you strike back at the world that has turned against you?”

    haha, when more beta’s get pissed off like you, things will change. The problem is that overall everything has just been too good. We’ve gotten complacent. Yeah, sure we can’t get laid but we’ve got jobs, homes, food, etc, and can jack off the porn. Life ain’t so bad is it? When the collapse starts, and peoples lives begin sucking, more beta’s are going to get motherf’in pissed. Only when they have nothing less to lose will they act, and with each passing day, more and more have less to lose. The smug alphas and women… poor suckers won’t know what hit ’em. I don’t care how many estrogen mimicking hormones make their way into the water, chemically castrating the mass of men. When you marginalize that half of the population, you put your whole society in peril. Like Fred Reed says; without men, society will last till the oil needs changing. Oh don’t you know? Most guys who change oil, are betas. In tough economic times (ie, great depression), know that if beta’s aren’t happy, nobody’s happy (sorry, but that rings more true than the line about mom)…

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  98. on January 3, 2009 at 1:29 am Sparks123

    Guys like Rick are the real jerks, but “jerk” would be too soft. “Monster” would be the more appropriate term. The ideas expressed by him have been embodied by men like Ted Bundy, Albert DeSalvo, and David Berkowitz. They believe that own lack of success with have entitled them to commit horrific acts against women.

    The “players” and “alphas” of the world are willing to adapt to survive, and the desires that they achieve are achieved through persuasiveness and style, not force.

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  99. on January 3, 2009 at 1:45 am Wocka

    Question,

    has this paper been ever been discussed on this site?

    http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm

    Is There Anything Good About Men?
    by
    Roy Baumeister

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  100. on January 3, 2009 at 1:46 am Anonymous

    Cannon’s Canon:

    I’m working on a Black Rob-style remix… “I’m gettin ready to put yall up on something man! When you see something weak, that shit is beta! Dude got a tote bag slung over his shoulder at the bar, that’s beta! Son standing with his drink in front of his chest, imaginary lat syndrome, that’s beta! Gets drunk and opens the same set twice by accident, shit’s beta! Let’s go…. I stole a chick from this dude, he was BETA! shoulda seen the gifts that he bought this bitch, BETA! gave the girl diamonds and pearls, i mean BETA! shoulda seen them wrists iced down from a BETA! now game is not a problem see my style is not BETA! spit a few negs like i thought she was BETA! befriended the guys in her group who were BETA! became the leader of all her men, they were BETA!”

    LOL

    I make it a habit before I go sarging to spray myself with Beta-B-Gone. Helps to minimize those embarassing moments of fast head movements, high-pitched speaking, and holding my drink up to my chest.

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  101. on January 3, 2009 at 1:47 am Tupac Chopra

    last post mine

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  102. on January 3, 2009 at 1:58 am Tupac Chopra

    Rick aka Cho:

    If you have a chance of never, ever getting laid or just being stuck with whales who don’t even treat you well, when do you strike back at the world that has turned against you?

    When was the world ever *for* you?

    It’s evolution, baby.

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  103. on January 3, 2009 at 1:58 am Eurosabra

    Sparks,

    Don’t forget that as an Israeli male, I’m already hearing from “everyone” that my very existence on the planet is an impermissible mistake, so what you call a “monster” is simply the reductio ad absurdum of a healthy defensiveness. Not for nothing is one of the finest APCs to roll in Gaza called the “Mifletzet” (Monster). And black/white “all or nothing” thinking IS one of the great failures of Men’s Rights Advocacy discourse, devoid of the nuance–as all of the great feminist blogs tell us–that different women want different things at different times. “Entitlement” is a strictly feminist discursive tool, used to slut-shame heterosexual men, however. Paul Janka counters, however, with the idea that a certain amount of male entitlement is necessary to sustain the search through the thousands of unique special snowflake women that is necessary in order to find the few with whom one is naturally compatible, to whom one can appear–as one’s natural self–as an unadulterated alpha.

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  104. on January 3, 2009 at 2:01 am Eurosabra

    Yeah, I cited the “historically 80% of women reproduce, 40% of men” conclusion of the Baumeister paper a while back. Pretty much without nuance, but it’s a useful paper.

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  105. on January 3, 2009 at 2:01 am Tupac Chopra

    Rick aka Cho:

    You stupid bitch. Chivalry is good or bad. It doesn’t depend on the person.

    Of course it does, as do other things in life.

    Winners are free to bend the rules (or just use the rules as camoflauge), while losers must obey the rules.

    The allure of alphas being magnanimous is the Handicap Principle in action.

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  106. on January 3, 2009 at 2:05 am Rick

    “We’ve gotten complacent. Yeah, sure we can’t get laid but we’ve got jobs, homes, food, etc, and can jack off the porn. Life ain’t so bad is it?”

    Well, life IS so bad. What’s the use of jobs, homes, food, and porn when you’re lonely? How can it feel ok to live comfortably but fail publicly at the only thing that really matters? We are judged relative to others. “Game” will only worsen things if anything. I’m not opposed to anyone (including myself) using game, but it needs to be used in conjunction with an eye toward the big picture. Some guys might get laid by some blue-state coastal skanks, but it does not take away the fact that they are the enemy.

    I believe Whiskey is correct that there are many who think like me. As a matter of fact, some must be even more upset – I’m fairly social, I have friends, and I’ve dated some cute women. I’m a lesser beta, maybe even a regular beta. How bout the omegas? The ones whose parents nag about when they’re going to meet someone? Probably quiet and embarrassed, and hopefully their energy and rage can be unleashed at some point.

    I’m sick of the media not even acknowledging this issue exists. I have a feeling that that will change at some point though.

    This isn’t about me much, I could take or leave marriage, and if I really want to, I’ll find someone. This is about other guys – guys like my cousin, who, at 34, married a 42-year-old single mom. He was living in a rural part of the Mid-Atlantic and never procreated. Good guy, decent job, but FAILED at the ultimate goal.

    Roissy provides a valuable service and the message needs to be expanded. Betas/omegas, fighting will not be easy. You will be insulted and ridiculed by women like “ez”. But this is a war, be real here. War is hard, and what we need to do doesn’t even risk our lives like those who fight the real wars. It’s about psychology.

    The most respect you get as a man is by marrying an attractive, classy, caring wife. Elites/feminists/gays continue to make it harder to get. Around you, young women, sexier than ever, act like pigs and only fuck guys who act even worse. Your dreams are dying. It’s time to fuck shit up.

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  107. on January 3, 2009 at 2:05 am Tupac Chopra

    DA:

    Of course, if one feels that this is wrong, could one explain why women aren’t immediately or automatically attracted to alphas?

    They are, but once she starts *fucking* them a whole new cascade of biochemicals get produced by her brain.

    That’s a harder habit to break.

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  108. on January 3, 2009 at 2:12 am Eurosabra

    Cho’s mistake was in killing himself, given the piss-poor police response, with enough ammo he could have killed 100s. Islamic Jihadi would have had a field day, especially if (like Cho) he had locked everyone in with him.

    Professional mujahedin rack up counts in the 10-20KIA, 30-50 wounded range, assuming an Israel Police response time of 2-10 minutes. With the 10min response time, it generally means that some potential victims escape in the chaos. Every delayed response when the terrorists SECURE the area (at Ma’alot, at Fürstenfeldbrück) means all hostages die.

    I’ve been a medical first responder to a mall with 4 suicide bombers and two car bombs set to go off (at T+10min and T+15min) in the parking lot likely to be used as a triage area, and I can tell you that monsters from societies where “Big Men” hoard all the women are the worst of all.

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  109. on January 3, 2009 at 2:17 am Rick

    Sparks/Tupac (the feminized wusses) – guess they got to you too. Your shaming and comparing me to serial killers is pretty pathetic. That really all you got?

    I never advocated murder. That would not be productive, and I respect life, as any good character human does. (Feminists are not good character humans, and don’t respect the lives of either good men, or those too innocent to know.) Violence may be ok in some circumstances, but I’m talking about a revolution of numbers, of guys finally fighting for their interests instead of taking it up the ass. Economically, socially, whatever.

    Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

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  110. on January 3, 2009 at 2:28 am m

    “Guys like Rick are the real jerks, but “jerk” would be too soft. “Monster” would be the more appropriate term. The ideas expressed by him have been embodied by men like Ted Bundy, Albert DeSalvo, and David Berkowitz. They believe that own lack of success with have entitled them to commit horrific acts against women.

    The “players” and “alphas” of the world are willing to adapt to survive, and the desires that they achieve are achieved through persuasiveness and style, not force.”

    sparks123, you sound bitter that Rick actually has the option of force, and is not afraid to take it. Why shouldn’t he advantage of it? Cause he spoils your party? You must be a woman. Or an alpha. Or castrated. No I got it, you are a beta! Bitterness is beta! When a rick clone comes to gun you down, will you do what it takes to survive? Do you think you will convert him with your “pervasiveness and style”? Or will you meekly succumb to force from the monster you so disdain?

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  111. on January 3, 2009 at 3:51 am BasilRansom

    As ez demonstrates, chivalry is like a compliment – paid by the right men, it works. Sorta like getting hit on by hot vs. fat chicks.

    natural beta (Rick?) – work out, bulk up. The second best confidence booster, after fucking hot women, is improving your appearance.

    Wouldn’t it be easier to change your habits than lead a revolution? (PS: leading a revolution would make you an alpha…)

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  112. on January 3, 2009 at 4:00 am whiskey

    I don’t think it was feminism. You see the leading indicators in Iran, as well, with a TFR of 1.7. Not exactly a feminist paradise.

    The Census Bureau has you covered for data:

    http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/marr-div.html

    I covered the data here:

    http://whiskeys-place.blogspot.com/2008/08/hollywoods-romantic-comedies-for-men.html

    Bottom line, you see a significant decline over time of marriage rates, “Men ever married” by Age 25 just craters, but by Age 30 craters too. The report is from 2001, and covers data back all the way to 1935-39 (it’s cohort based).

    Unless anyone has any competing data, I think the case for men over 40 not married being a significant and growing over time issue (and not gay) is proved. Also note that WOMEN decline in marriage as well which is expected.

    When women expect marriage, they understand there is a penalty for being “too picky” and overpursuing just like a greedy linebacker gets burned. But take marriage away, and allow single motherhood as a social good, and voila.

    Smiler’s point is good, but note how the media has become a female-gay ghetto. It’s really noteworthy how “gay” (and therefore female-friendly and male unfriendly) so much of TV/News/Magazines/Newspapers/Books really are. Guys are just tuning out, as declining ratings and men/boys fleeing TV and even movies have proved. [Neilsen and other research shows this, see the Big Picture Blog, Long Tail, etc.] The ability to contain/shame beta men is eroding as the Media becomes Katie Couric and “perky” appealing to gays and women, like Broadway.

    Sparks123, you’re forgetting a recent bit of European History. Betas eventually gravitated towards the biggest Big Man in Russia (first Lenin, then Stalin), in Germany, and Italy. You saw the same thing with the Black Ocean and Black Dragon societies in Japan. Note these were betas who saw combat. So they did not have a whole lot of inhibitions left. Germany was full of Freikorps, guys who left a middle class society where Joe Average got married and came back to a society that offered them prostitutes and debased money and celebrated gay-edgy culture with powerful “Alphas.” So they created their own trump-Alpha system when the first guy with a lunatic idea got a following.

    Calling someone evil won’t fix the problem. If you think Rick is a sample size of one, an outlier, a mere blip, no problem. If you’re estimating wrong then there is a HUGE problem. The Census Bureau does not measure attitudes, but does measure guys never married. A large and growing issue. Disposable “partners” as in the UK tend to produce guys who will roll the dice for anyone who promises to upend the whole system. Ideology and the like matters little.

    Now consider that enough Whales and Ricks can form political alliances to vote themselves a socialism of sex. Whales get … Roissy, Tupac, Mu’Min, and T aka Ricky Raw. Ricks get … whatever hot chick is around. Share the Wealth? Share the sex! A prominent feature of every dystopian sci-fi novel ever written btw.

    Players and Alphas only exist so long as the violence veto does not trump everything. Pitcairn Island (they all slaughtered each other over women), and the experience of hunter-gatherer societies suggest that violence always lurks. The AK-47, cheap, reliable, available globally, gives potential to ANYONE to take up the way of the gun. It might be the Shining Path, or David Koresh, or Jim Jones, or someone else. But it’s there as a key enabling technology. Just ask the guys in Bombay.

    Re Baumeister — he overlooks the biological bottleneck. If only about 20% of the men reproduce, that is a biological bottleneck, likely to produce a whole host of hereditary diseases, and more importantly reduce genetic diversity to respond to new conditions/threats. Cultures that make that bet that way, tend to produce aggressive but low IQ folks unable to meet rapid technological challenges. I’m thinking specifically of the Mongols finding that composite bows and great horseback mobility don’t work well in always rainy, muddy, boggy, Europe. Bows fall apart, in the rain, and the horses get stuck. Meanwhile some peasant puts a pike through you. But hey! It worked great in Baghdad. [Ghengis Khan famously fathered about 13% of current Mongolian men, an astounding figure. And look where Mongolia is today!]

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  113. on January 3, 2009 at 4:31 am Keith

    “you open the door for every woman (at least the one’s who seem they might like it) & guarantee you will get a lot more female attention.”

    This makes a good point. There’s nothing wrong with being nice, good, etc. But if you’re nice IN ORDER TO GET PUSSY, then you’re not admirable, and you won’t get pussy anyway. Open the door for the hot chick by all means, but then open it for the fat chick.

    Operate according to abstract moral principles, and you go beyond alpha and beta. You transcend.

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  114. on January 3, 2009 at 5:16 am Markku

    Your math skills are a little faulty. Going from zero to zero does not equal “quadrupled.”

    Yes, it does. It also means his notch count grew quadrillionfold.

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  115. on January 3, 2009 at 7:07 am Cannon's Canon

    OK fuckin field report time and I won’t shy away from my disgrace. I drove up to Boston from NYC to hang with one of my college roommates. His girlfriend of about seven years sold me on the gameplan that she has a few 22 year olds working admin in her law firm and that she would like me to come out and “run alpha game on them.” I was just that huckleberry.

    Stepped into a random bullshit harvard square bar and surveyed the scene – modest talent, plenty of bad decisions to be made in there. Around 11:15 I noticed a couple of the girls I had already opened pairing off with other dudes, so I told my boy that we should focus on harassing the 22 year old, let’s call her Bambi for her doe-eyes.

    Bambi apparently felt a natural spark with me and quickly hauled me off to the dance floor. Since I was trying to establish kino off the bat, it was almost overwhelming to have her grab me and pull; I didn’t miss the opportunity to sneak a couple of innappropriate ass cheek-squeezes in. We start talking about real life stupid bullshit and the conversation predictably sours.

    I seize an opportunity during a moment of clarity. Bambi and I are given glasses of champagne, and I drop a douchebag move that I would have been ashamed of myself for only three or four years ago: I tell her, “I’m going to do you a favor………. I’m gonna be the first handsome man that you kiss in 2009.” She sizes this up and plays it off, eventually putting out a hand to shake on it and pulling it back at first. We do a push and pull routine and leave plenty of tension. The ball drops and we stare at each other – she presents herself and I lean into her… and do nothing but smile and laugh at her. Say “it’s not just THAT easy!” At this point, I feel like I might be criminally liable for causing a bitch to go insane with jealousy.

    So we keep up the vibe and grind on each other for a while. During a natural lull, I go take a piss and get another drink for myself and my boy. Stepping back onto the dancefloor, I lock eyes with Bambi and cock my head and wink at her. She’s clearly on my proverbial dick at this point.

    Here’s where I pulled my power move. I turned away from her direction and introduced myself to another girl. Fortuitously, this new girl was both receptive and attractive, likely some zero-sum of post-New Years Alone Syndrome. Bambi couldn’t take it and barged through the crowd, literally jumping in between us and thrusting her tiny little 22 year old ass up into my waist. We opened up drunk New Years Eve focus and “let the music play,” so to speak. By my watch, it was around 12:45 when she finally thrust her mouth over mine and we kissed, teasingly then fulfillingly, then more teasingly, like we were too drunk to notice anyone looking at us (PDA is so fucking beta)

    My NYE story effectively ends around 1:15am. Bambi’s ugly roommate interrupts us on the dancefloor and announces that she’s going home, like a cease and desist order. Bambi looks at her, looks at me, looks back at her, and turns to me and whimpers, “…. wanna leave here with us?” I say dope, lemme grab my jacket from coat check and say peace to my boy; I’ll find a cab back to his place in the morning. I’m tucked away literally just a few minutes, then that’s when I spotted it……

    Walked up to the front of the bar with my coat and saw Bambi tongue-kissing some other douchebag I thought I deflected earlier on the dancefloor. I’m a little awestruck, so I stand there and wait for her to turn around so I can drop some epic neg. She remains oblivious and even WHIPS OUT HER CELL PHONE TO TAKE THIS DUDE’S NUMBER. I don’t need any other prompting to go return my jacket and reflect.

    Immediate aftermath: I was admittedly psyched-out for about ten minutes before going on a proverbial rampage and opening every set left in the bar. However, the true theft from Bambi was not her blatant, drunken indiscretion but rather her monopoly over the prime hours of my night. At half past one, I was clearly scraping the barrel when looking for play, and my marks seemed to sense this subconsciously just like I did. Swung and missed at the coat check girl, swung and missed at a couple other broads too. Left the bar and made fun of a fat dude outside, diffused his tension. Ducked into the Bank of America ATM and hit on the girl who was gazing outside waiting for a ride. Went nowhere of course, but it was the spirit of the chase that counted.

    Anyway, Bambi works at the same office as my boy’s girlfriend, so she got to deal with an 8 hour day today while we stayed home negging each other on xbox 360. She apparently took that dude home and presumably banged him. I relayed the story to my pick-up compatriot and he told me I fucked up; I should have interjected and still taken this bitch home myself and started my 2009 with a notch, slutty or not. I pondered the indignance of modest standards versus the glory of banging a 22 year old, deciding I probably should have gone physical-alpha over that NYE cuckold and made it happen. She’d have been better off for it.

    Anyway, Bambi comes out to the same bar as us tonight, without escort, and I get to tee off. But not in the beta form; in the alpha-dominant disposition. After I give her an initial wink and then completely ignore her for a full hour, she tracks me down while I’m leaning on the bar for another beer. I give her the canned neg “I’m suprised you wore [[that sweater]]” which worked gorgeously. I shook Bambi for a few minutes, but she was back like a virus after that open challenge. She said hey… she didn’t really remember what happened the other night, and asked me if we made out? cuz she didn’t think we did, but her roommate said we were def makin out LOLz

    I gave her a crooked, serious gaze and said it was best if she didn’t talk to me any more because I was a horrible person, I just made up for it somewhat by being charming (shout to Sinn on that line). She actually became MORE desperate and I told her that, look, I was a selfish lover anyway and she wouldn’t even enjoy a night alone with me. I moved around on purpose with my commiserating pal and she followed me like a Family Circus cartoon.

    Anyway, I’m the big winner in this game-o-life interaction, clearly. Still, in retrospect, I didn’t bang this girl, and I’ve got no 2009 notches yet three days in. Although I alpha-gamed her tonight, I let alcohol dictate my terms and went home alone to martyr myself, so to speak. Perhaps she’ll remember me fondly, but not as fondly as I would have remembered her naked on my cock in my photo collection.

    I’ve been learning Game for about a half a year now, and it has been life-changing, even before the notch-tally surges. I am a handful of years removed from my last girlfriend, who really brought out the beta in me. I had to absolutely purge my mindset to rediscover happiness, get my howard roark on.

    Paul Janka says you’re a proverbial immigrant in a girl’s country til you bang her, then you get your permanent green-card and get to say whatever you want to her, tell her you voted for Bush and what not. For years, I used to think I was chasing my personal foil in life and awaiting our inevitable romance. My bodybuilder friend frustrated me because his girlfriend was hot (incidental), 20 years old (incidental), completely in love with him (incidental), cooked and cleaned for him (completely incidental) and dumb as shit (offensive to me). I couldn’t understand how a friend of mine with such admirable discipline could settle for such mental midgetry. Sound dumb? Honestly, my catharsis can’t be any more obvious.

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  116. on January 3, 2009 at 7:51 am PA

    I make it a habit before I go sarging to spray myself with Beta-B-Gone. Helps to minimize those embarassing moments of fast head movements, high-pitched speaking, and holding my drink up to my chest.

    It’s also good to wash down a few Beta blockers (drugs that aren’t just for managing of cardiac arrhythmias and hypertension.)

    Also, eat lots of Alfalfa.

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  117. on January 3, 2009 at 9:03 am ez

    who was it who once said: “You stupid bitch. Chivalry is good or bad. It doesn’t depend on the person. Make up your fucking mind. You deserve to be treated like shit.”

    i’m touched! & misunderstood. chivalry is good. but it’s not an unequivocal turn on. if it seems like it’s a desperate ploy to get my affection it just won’t work. i didn’t mean anything i said as an insult to men. i adore men.

    don’t let this kind of ire show when you’re trying to game girls. is my advice. omg lol

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  118. on January 3, 2009 at 9:17 am PA

    So go ahead and hate public institutions. After all, they hate you.

    – Roissy

    The world is not thy friend nor the world’s law;
    The world affords no law to make thee rich;
    Then be not poor, but break it…

    – W. Shakespeare
    “Romeo and Juliet” Act V.

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  119. on January 3, 2009 at 9:21 am Mark in Ark

    Whiskey-
    David Koresh was a murder victim who just wanted to be left alone. The government thugs who killed him and almost 20 children were the ones to compare to Shining Path or Jim Jones (who was a CIA asset).

    You tax dollars at work.

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  120. on January 3, 2009 at 9:42 am Mark in Ark

    The culture change betas are complaining about is called ghettoization or nigrification. The glorification of blacks and their dysfunctional culture is destroying the US. The cult of Obama is just the latest symptom.

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  121. on January 3, 2009 at 10:01 am PA

    The culture change betas are complaining about is called ghettoization or nigrification. The glorification of blacks and their dysfunctional culture is destroying the US. The cult of Obama is just the latest symptom.

    There is a “Tower of Babel” mechanism built into the collective human nature, whereby the more sophisticated a society becomes, the more destructive currents get stirred at its base, eventually causing this society to collapse like a wave, and thereby preventing it from building a tower that reaches the heavens, where humans are not meant to trespass.

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  122. on January 3, 2009 at 10:33 am MarkD

    Well, Koresh’s fate certainly proved that Janet Reno had the biggest pair in DC. Of course that inspired the Oklahoma City bombing, which ought to be a lesson to us all. When folks want to be left alone, and aren’t doing anything to you, it’s probably best to leave them alone.

    You might be sane. Is the other guy?

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  123. on January 3, 2009 at 10:53 am JAM

    @ Realist.

    > Roissy
    > Since you’re doing the mailbag, I’ve been curious about something. What would you do if, perchance, you encountered the love of your life. A beautiful and intelligent woman that captures your heart…….however there’s a catch. She has no interest in alpha males. She wants a beta male. Would you forsake all your alpha male principles for love?

    False scenario. My fiancee has gone so far to tell me that she LOVES nerds/beta, in fact it was a big turn on for her that I was a nerd.

    I laughed my ass of when I heard that. I met her when I was working the room at a Halloween party full of 20-something professionals, decked out in an outrageous costume. SHE tracked me down and contacted me through a mutual friend. I took her to see Transformers.

    Later after things had broken off a bit, I met up with her to catch up. Meanwhile I’d been plowing through girls in my spare time (She knew this). She suggested we get back together. When I agreed. She dumped her financial analyst boyfriend (I didn’t know this at the time).

    Other than a love of robots, what in all of the above makes my behaviour beta?

    This girl is a pediatrician who does medical research in Africa. She’s a classically trained dancer. She is a “good girl” of the kind that most guys on this list truly want (only one other serious boyfriend in her life). She will make an excellent mother of four children (I have always wanted a large family and upsized her plans from two children to four).

    I literally would not have been able to get this girl if I had not made the upshift past betatude by studying Game…. and she wouldn’t have cared for me, good girl that she is, if I hadn’t made that transition.

    In the meantime, I’ll occasionally mention a reference to nantotech, gene-chipping and elvish to my fiancee to keep her nerd-fetish strong… after she makes me dinner in nothing but high heels.

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  124. on January 3, 2009 at 11:04 am JAM

    @ez:

    > don’t let this kind of ire show when you’re trying to game girls. is my advice. omg lol

    ez, this one’s for you:

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  125. on January 3, 2009 at 11:06 am Mark in Ark

    JAM-
    Yeah, she claims only one serious boyfriend, but how many “mistakes’?
    The mother of your children should be a virgin when you marry her, or else she’s just another skank.

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  126. on January 3, 2009 at 11:24 am JAM

    Yeah, that thought crossed my mind Mark. But I honestly think she’s fine. She’s from a pretty conservative family background*, she gets along well with my family, and they love her. I have found no tells, and I’ve been looking (very) hard.

    People do make mistakes, and sometimes you have to forgive. But I’m with you on playing the percentages as a general rule.

    That being said, the reptilian brain will demand a paternity test when the time comes. She doesn’t have to know. ;)… and honestly I don’t think I will discover anything unsuspected.

    * yet more (anectodal) proof to realist that alphahood is always better than betahood, regardless of the type of girl.

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  127. on January 3, 2009 at 12:21 pm ez

    JAM

    that kind of ire does work! chastised. won.

    blah blah blah

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  128. on January 3, 2009 at 12:29 pm epiclolz

    @Cannon It looks like that guy sniped you. Good report though.
    Cats swooping in to snatch your set like Whoa!

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  129. on January 3, 2009 at 12:32 pm Mu'Min

    Sarge Test 2.0
    Jan 3 2009
    Obsidian reporting

    Since my last field report, I’ve been “calibrating” like a MFer-re-reading The Game/MM, going back ov3r my steps in every way imaginable…and yup, I ain’t even gonna hold you, I was fucking fuming. I felt some kind of way for letting other stuff intrude on my situation the other night.

    So I tell Ricky & the rest of the team, that before we go *anywhere* else, we gotta go back to where we started the other night, so I can pick up where I left off.

    I’m glad that I did.

    We head back to the PR After Hours spot-*this time*, I decide to try a different approach, starting with the gear. I ditch the dapper suits and instead throw on some fitted jeans, a black military style shirt, butter-leather black jacket, aviator shades and Kenneth Cole square-front shoes w/a serious spit-shine. To make sure I got just the right “touch” of Peacock effect, I threw in a bright red & white kaffiyah. The Ladies LOVED it.

    We hit the PR spot around 2.30AM, and casually make our way thru the crowd. I post up right in front of five Latin Hotties and don’t move, forcing the other guys to contort themselves to move around me. Ricky and Eddie are on either side of me making small talk w/the ladies while I survey the room for targets to sarge. That’s when I felt a soft body grinding on me from behind; *she was HOT*

    I turned around and said Hey!-I charge extra for that. She smiled & giggled.

    And we’re off…I siezed the opening and opened the set, I don’t even remember what I said, just started riffin’. But whatever I hit em with, it was working.

    I think I’m starting to “get it”.

    OK, so Ricky gets a screwdriver for himself and a ginger ale for me-all the fellas know that Mu partakes not of the Wine & Spirits-and we move down to the bar. About 5 minutes into it, “GiGi” steps up-long straight black hair, fairskinned Latina, 5’4″ or so, petite, hot. She asks hey can I have that barstool since no one’s sitting on it?

    Ricky turns around and carries the stool over to where GiGi’s girlfriend is, against the wall and sets it down for them. GiGi comes over and sits down, and a minute later, her girlfriend walks off. Ricky says he’s gotta bounce, Eddie’s engrossed in talking some business w/a Bigfoot-sized Brotha, so that left me.

    I decide to try out something that I actually got right here from Roissy’s forum. I call it the “I Hate You’ opener.

    I step over to GiGi (didn’t know her name yet) and said listen, since you stole our barstool its only right to you chat w/a brotha for a minute….but *only a minute, since I gotta get back w/my friends*, pointing back to Eddie and Bigfoot. She smiled.

    I said:

    MU: Listen, real quick-lemme ask you a question…

    GG: OK.

    MU: Do you believe there’s a thin line between Love & Hate?

    GG *looks kinda thrown for a loop at the question*: Yea, I believe that.

    MU: OK, cool, because I was just talking about this very same subject w/Ricky and the fellas earlier today. We were talking about how so many females will, right before getting romantic, whisper “I hate you”. What is up with that? *then I STOPPED talking*

    GiGi then starts talking…fellas, I’ve been trying this out for the past few weeks, just on the humbug, not even trying to pickup any chicks. I’m telling ya, use it. Guaranteed icebreaker. Women LOVE talking this type of ish.

    GG: So, what, you never had a Woman tell you something lik that before?

    MU: Me? Ahh, no. No, I’m horrible with Women *sly grin* (GiGi grins back)

    NOTE: I’ve found that *everytime* I use the “I Hate You” piece, the Woman will invariably ask if its every happened to ME. Interesting. Very, very, interesting…

    OK, so GiGi says she’s done that to quite a few guys, and this, and that, and I spin off into a few other topics, telling her that I’m not from around there. She asks where I live.

    MU: Germantown.

    GiGi: Oh, OK, you mean Germantown Av…

    MU: No. Germantown, as in, Chestnut Hill Germantown…

    GiGi: Oh shit!

    MU: What?

    GiGi: I don’t even know where that is.

    MU: It’s in Philly, alright. Lots of it still has cobblestone streets. I’d love to show you sometime.

    GiGi smiles…

    That’s when I felt what Strauss called “the hook point”. I move in for the kill…

    Listen, GiGi, this has been great, but if I don’t get back to my friends, Bigfoot and Eddie will start to get nervous and send out a search party. I gotta run. But what steps do ou think we should take to pickup where we left off?

    CAP-UP!!! Yes! Victory!

    And, as if a sho-nuff signal from the Man Upstairs himself, Eddie introduces me to Rahm and Rico, the fellas who own the PR After Hours spot. We shake hands and exchange hugs and they assure me that any peeps of Ricky & Eddie’s are peeps of theirs, and that I’m always a welcome guest in their house.

    It.
    Is.
    The.
    Fuck.
    ON…

    Sarge Test Part Three, coming soon…

    Holla

    Salaam
    Mu’Min
    The Obsidian

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  130. on January 3, 2009 at 12:48 pm Wocka

    Whiskey,

    I just spent the entire morning plowing through your blog, very brilliant stuff. I regret not having explored it sooner. I have some minor disagreements with you, but I just don’t have the time and energy (or maybe even the smarts!) to debate.

    I’m convinced we’re headed towards a third world styled meltdown here in the U.S., with a lot more Virgina Tech and Christmas eve massacres happening a long the way. Is this crackpot thinking? What do you think.

    Mu’min,

    Nice job on the outfit, bad ass.

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  131. on January 3, 2009 at 12:48 pm BasilRansom

    to email #3: Tell him firmly but politely that you are not interested, and that you’d just like to be alone/with your friends. Deluded men like him lack social awareness, and do not get that you are not interested.

    I haven’t done anything like the man in your story, but there have been times where it’s going well between me and a girl, specifically thinking of two girls I banged once, each, and suddenly they stop talking to me after that. I’d then have a burning urge to say to her, “ok, I understand you never want to see me again, just tell me why and I won’t contact you ever again.” If only out of intellectual curiosity. Never did ask of course.

    IMO:
    temporal persistence -> beta
    physical persistence -> alpha

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  132. on January 3, 2009 at 2:12 pm Keith

    Ha! You people think that guy in email three is an omega? That’s nothing! I know this one guy who’s such a lesser omega that he takes pictures of dudes when they’re sleeping on the train!

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  133. on January 3, 2009 at 2:38 pm epiclolz

    LOL you sure he’s not just into dudes??

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  134. on January 3, 2009 at 2:52 pm Rick

    Does working out really help get women? It never seems to matter much – I’m pretty sure all bitches care about lookswise is height and face. Especially since I’m not very tall, being too muscular might look low class.

    I don’t want more Cho’s (though I’m very surprised there haven’t been more). I want social shaming of attractive women who are promiscuous, selfish, shallow, etc. (basically all of them now). I want men to band and fight for their interests like fags and feminists fight for theirs – and then punish the fags and feminists who are worthless for society. I just don’t get how so many men can be ok with society’s decades-long, gradual war against them and their values.

    Cannon should have told Bambi exactly what happened, that he knew she was a fucking whore, and that she was worthless.

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  135. on January 3, 2009 at 2:58 pm David Alexander

    They are, but once she starts *fucking* them a whole new cascade of biochemicals get produced by her brain.

    That’s a harder habit to break.

    So how are you going to beat the alphas to the girl?

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  136. on January 3, 2009 at 3:00 pm Jack

    “L” – I’d like to hear how the guy in e-mail 3 was an “omega”. And I want to hear specifics. Roissy called you on that. It sounds like it’s just a guy you’re not attracted to who was hitting on you. Certainly not “omega”.

    “L” – he offered to walk you through Central Park, and it was an honorable gesture. You should have been flattered and thankful, and attracted, for that. Women have been mugged and raped in Central Park – and I’m positive most of them were not walking with men. Because of women like you, men will just stop offering their generosity to all women. They already are.

    “I mean, there’s no way I would walk through Central Park at night with some stranger. What kind of idiot would expect a woman he just met to walk with him at night through Central Park?!?!?”

    I’m sure you’ve never had a guy walk you home before. Bullshit.

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  137. on January 3, 2009 at 3:37 pm Mu'Min

    Wocka, good lookin’ chief.

    Yo Cannon: I’ve learned something immeasurable that I think could really be helpful to you in the future, and this goes to what seems to a theme developing in the comments of late:

    YOU CANNOT BE A NICE GUY. NICE GUYS GETS NOTHING.

    Its a very sad but bitter Truth. Women take nice guys for chumps. Period. And here’s the kicker-

    The Hotter she is, the more likely she is to take your kindness for AFC-type weakness. Believe dat.

    You know, you read stuff like The Game and Mystery Method, etc, and you’ll see how they talk about a guy doing AFC type stuff at a spot and getting blown out, then turn around, make some adjustments inner and outer, go back to the same spot, even talk to the same gal, and get a completely different result.

    I’m living proof. My field report above speaks to this, in part. I left out some stuff though, but in light of the other fellas’ comments, I thought to speak on the other events of the night.

    When I first went to the PR spot, there was this *tall*, Zaftig Sista there, cute face, about 6′ and had attitude all day. Ricky tried to introduce me, and got nowhere. That was on New Year’s Eve.

    Well, it turns out she also happens to work Security for the club too, and was on the door last night. It was a $5 cover and Ricky had me, so I just went in. When she said “five dollars” to me, I dismissively waved her off saying “Ricky’s got it”, and kept walking. I didn’t even look at her.

    A bit later on in the spot, she was standing near the back door (we went in thru the front door this time) with a Spanish guard. He complimented me on my shoes, which made her look down too. That’s when I unleashed the only Negs of the night:

    MU: So, you work Security here, huh?

    TALL SISTA: Yea.

    MU: Do you run Ball, too? I bet you got a mean dropstep.

    TS: *looks at me sideways*

    *Mu bounces*

    What a difference a day makes, right? Just a few days ago she was walking past me and my team like we were Stop signs. Last night I gave her a taste of the Neg.

    I predict I’ll be knocking those hills and valleys before Jan leaves outta here.

    Watch me.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  138. on January 3, 2009 at 5:17 pm Mason

    @cannon’s canon

    Nice report. Reminds me of a Tyler Durden aphorism: buying temperature is easily transferable.

    The downside is that you can step away for a minute and find out the girl left with some d-bag she barely talked to. The upside is that you can extract quickly by poaching girls who are already turned on by some other guy.

    My take: I would have extracted her earlier. Especially once you’ve liplocked. To the apt, hotel room, McDs, wherever. When you responded to her roommate’s plans, the intrigue dies.

    The same situation with a 29-yr-old might have played out differently but a hot 22-yr-old in a club is about the most amoral creature in existence.

    @ez

    I like your candor e.g. “I’m into alphas.” And I like your nick.

    And then we have Maria, who is trying to scare men into marrying before they turn 40 and discover they crave dick.

    @epiclolz

    You’re not the only one who noticed ultra-players eventually marrying sweet girls. Some poster gave an example of a former bouncer/police officer who was a huge man-whore for decades but eventually settled down. (don’t tell me that was you)

    Charlie Sheen syndrome we’ll call it. The nurse/teacher type love to coddle these former man-whores.

    Most of the hard-core players I know are single or divorced. One exception — a major player (a frat president) who was engaged to be married to a sweet girl at the time he was graduating. Don’t know how that turned out.

    ACtually the same thing seems to happen for ultra-slutty women. Jessica Cutler syndrome.

    I give Charlie Sheen better odds for breaking the 10-yr mark than Cutler though.

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  139. on January 3, 2009 at 5:58 pm Benedict Smith

    “one is naturally a beta, that one is naturally small and worthless in this utterly realist world, and that one’s advances are “inappropriate” (whereas alpha males’ advances are appropriate or sanctioned). ”
    -seen this in the field so many times. i’ve opened girls who i later took home, strippers, the whole 9 with things like “hey, how do you all know one another?” and “how are you?” – alphas can break and knowingly do so the rules of some game gurus…based on the irrational self-confidence Roissy recommends.
    …..
    and 1.50 for 2 bangs of a 5.5 on the chick richter is something for an admitted beta to be very proud of. Bravo, good sir!

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  140. on January 3, 2009 at 6:42 pm Chic Noir

    MarkinArk-
    Question:
    What made you so hateful? Have you been physically assaulted by Blacks? Did a Black man “take” your girlfriend (no kid)? Where you teased in high school?

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  141. on January 3, 2009 at 6:55 pm Mark in Ark

    I normally wouldn’t respond to a racist enemy, but my common-sense views of blacks simply reflect what is really happening in the real world, as opposed to what is portrayed on TV.

    Hopefully, the chaos is just starting and bitches like you will be running for your sorry lives, right next to the SWPLs. Seriously.

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  142. on January 3, 2009 at 7:03 pm PA

    White people as a whole have legitimate grievances against black people as a whole, and against liberals, who are the real enemy — of both blacks and whites.

    But there is no need to be crude when unprovoked, which is what Mark’s doing. The black folks who post on this blog are cool and fun so there is no need to be a dick.

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  143. on January 3, 2009 at 7:15 pm Chic Noir

    racist ?
    Me
    No

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  144. on January 3, 2009 at 7:17 pm Chic Noir

    thanks pa

    I think 😦

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  145. on January 3, 2009 at 7:17 pm PA

    I said you’re cool and fun to read. Why the long face?

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  146. on January 3, 2009 at 7:28 pm Jack

    White liberals, especially feminists, are the enemy. They use blacks for votes to bludgeon white middle-class Americans, while sending their kids to private or upper-crust schools with no black kids whatsoever. The ultimate hypocrites. Their list of crimes extends for days.

    OK – so don’t be a “nice” guy. Sold. But how about in a school environment, where you will be seeing the other people all the time? You can’t just be an ass. No girl likes a guy who’s unpopular. “Negs” might make you look cheesy in this environment. Therefore, game would seem to be different in college or in grad school (I’m in law school now). I’m sure some of the basics are the same, but in this kind of environment, you do have to be nice, or at least pretend to be, or else fingers will point at you.

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  147. on January 3, 2009 at 7:46 pm epiclolz

    @Mason – Nah thats not me =) I’m just some dude.

    @Jack – No one ever said you had to be an ass. I think your take on the neg is a bit different than mind. A neg would be teasing the girl who’s a JD-MBA on how her argument was silly, but still cute. Same social dynamics… you just have to calibrate appropriately for the environment. I’m sure if you look at the most popular guys around campus even in grad school, they still have the same behavior type. Also no one appreciates it when you are being nice for ‘fake’. People are very intuitive.. and can see right through that.. they will hate you for it. If you can’t be nice, just be excellent. Also don’t take yourself too seriously, nothing is cheesy if you say it in the right context/frame….

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  148. on January 3, 2009 at 7:53 pm Chic Noir

    @PA-The first sentence. In women’s world, we call that snark but it’s all good 🙂

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  149. on January 3, 2009 at 8:19 pm Glengarry Glenpoon

    Right?

    Ha ha, right, MPM, or should that be right-right-left? Just to add: the question has to be rhetorical. Get them nodding.

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  150. on January 3, 2009 at 9:56 pm David Alexander

    White people as a whole have legitimate grievances against black people as a whole

    At the risk of inducing something that I may not want to hear later, what are these grievances?

    against liberals, who are the real enemy — of both blacks and whites.

    I dunno, but judging by my experience, they’re not the enemy to me…

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  151. on January 3, 2009 at 9:59 pm David Alexander

    especially feminists, are the enemy

    Actually, you should thank them since you were spared from a life where you exchange hard work for questionable home-cooked food and vanilla sex with an average-looking female.

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  152. on January 3, 2009 at 10:28 pm BasilRansom

    Rick, working out will improve posture, balance, coordination and flexibility, depending on the exercises. Which can improve your body language in turn. Most importantly, it’ll boost your testosterone and masculinity. Squat, deadlift, bench, dips.

    Your self-esteem will rise as your appearance improves, and people will treat you better. When you’ve got a bit of muscle, people are far less inclined to brand you a chump.

    Also, your face fills out a little too when you gain muscle, in a good way. Check out some of the transformations on bodybuilding.com for ideas. Stronglifts.com / Rippetoe workouts are a good starting point.

    “I’m sure you’ve never had a guy walk you home before.”
    I’m only 20, and I was always made to walk a girl home at night by my parents and such, even in nice neighborhoods. I’ve noticed though that girls I’ve hooked up with see it as so generous.

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  153. on January 3, 2009 at 10:43 pm QT

    Jack – Don’t think of a neg as a put down, per se. I am a junior partner to a (married) male and we share a sarcastic sense of humor. He negs me all the time. I pretend to be very hurt by it, and every once in awhile get my own little digs in – in private, of course. We get along great.

    Roissy did a post awhile ago about old movies. If you watch a movie like “Gone With the Wind” “An Affair to Remember” etc, you can see that what are now referred to as negs used to be called “witty banter”.

    PS – I’m a girl, so you should think carefully about whether or not to believe me…but as far as females on this blog go, I am definitely the minority re: liking negs.

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  154. on January 3, 2009 at 10:51 pm Bhetti B

    Where are all these feminists and why haven’t I met any? I’ll be damned if the average modern woman actually stands up for her gender. Maybe they’re all in their 30s or something. Feminism’s already dead, just wait until you see the new generation!

    My dad was a professor’s assistant who married my mother — a student — a little over a decade younger than himself of the same social standing.

    To put this into context, they were Arabs in an Arabic country (I know marriage implies years of long courtship for Westerners, when it means maybe 5 dates — if at all — at most on average for Arabs). She said that he was relatively young and all the girls wanted him, implying that his position of power was seductive. Netting him was describe as a trap/drawn-out-plan by other women, even though she herself seems slightly bewildered by her ‘catch’.

    The key point is that it was kept professional, and any contact happened right AFTER graduation; a woman now ain’t worth your job or your reputation — the confidence from secure job prospects, money and power will net you more booty later. Former student = free country! Figure out the renewed contact excuse/setting and you’re set.

    Other key thing: for God’s sakes, don’t marry her.

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  155. on January 3, 2009 at 10:54 pm jaakkeli

    OK – so don’t be a “nice” guy. Sold. But how about in a school environment, where you will be seeing the other people all the time? You can’t just be an ass. No girl likes a guy who’s unpopular.

    If you’re an ass all the time and develop a reputation for it, you’ll actually find girls approaching you out of curiosity. Women are on a life mission to create social harmony: they must find out why you’re being an ass and they have to see if they’re charming enough that you won’t be an ass to them. Notice how all the black guys just ignore “Mark in ark” while chic has to know why, why, why, what made him such an ass. Same thing. An asshole is to a girl what any electronic gadget with lots of blinking lights and a scoreboard is to a boy: they just have to try all the buttons and see which one makes the biggest sound.

    I would not recommend this “method” to anyone, of course, especially not high school kids. You want to get invited to parties and hang out with more than a few weirdo friends or you’ll end up graduating as a social retard (and you won’t even be approached anymore, since in real life no one knows that you’re an ass all the time).

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  156. on January 3, 2009 at 11:00 pm Wtf, Ducks?

    *bumping an earlier post of mine*

    Wouldn’t the remedy to the beta revolution be worse than the disease? Either way it comes off as a false nostrum. Should betas take to heart that advice about how acting alpha will improve their lot and still fail, it will only drive them to the barricades all the swifter. Besides, while a far greater proportion is only acting alpha, this will exacerbate the impression of the discontents that, due to the increase of apparently authentic alpha males, the competition is insurmountable. Notwithstanding game’s utility, it alone cannot snuff this fuse.

    I’m curious to see some responses.

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  157. on January 3, 2009 at 11:01 pm QT

    Actually, you should thank them since you were spared from a life where you exchange hard work for questionable home-cooked food and vanilla sex with an average-looking female.

    DA, I don’t even know what to say about this. I will reiterate, there ARE women in this god forsaken country that were taught to cook and keep a home. We were also taught not to turn down the sexual requests of our *husbands*. We are educated so that when your tired ass comes home we can ask meaningful questions about your day. We spend time making ourselves beautiful for our partner -and ourselves.

    Feminism brought you a woman who stays home to work on her “art”, so that you can come home from 10+ hours and wipe your kids noses and microwave some chicken nuggets. That is what feminism wrought.

    Work, DA. Relationships are work for *BOTH* people. For some of us, they are worth it. Stick to your pr0n, I think you are way too lazy to even have a FWB.

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  158. on January 3, 2009 at 11:03 pm epiclolz

    @Chic After enough young ladies blow up on you because your executing Southern protocol, you start to re-program a bit. I’ve noticed that older ladies understand the courtesy, but a lot of ladies in their early 20’s to mid 20’s seriously flip when you do that. Especially at work, in some instances it appears like they take it as a dominance challenge (these are usually the high T aggressive ones)…. in a way though this great because then they start opening doors for me, which is totally sweet and hilarious, go figure.
    It is interesting though, I’m usually always in Southern protocol mode, but I have to turn it OFF when I’m with a girl I’m interested in.

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  159. on January 3, 2009 at 11:04 pm Bhetti B

    Jack, she didn’t feel safe with him. She would rather have walked through Central Park alone than go anywhere with him.

    I’m not sure if any of you (especially guys) have experienced this, but being with a guy you’re repelled from — especially alone — feels like a violation.

    It may be a general truth for women, or I may have my own issues!

    My soon-to-be-ex walks me home. He also won’t let me leave his place using walking me home as a guilt trip, said he loved me within two months when we started the relationship with me saying ‘I will never love you. I may love. It won’t be you.’. DEAR GOD, SOMEBODY SAVE HIM FROM THE BETANESS. If the guy I’m is being more enthusiastic about things than I am and not even bothering to graciously hide his loveydoveyness, then ‘I can’t stand being anywhere near you’ will be on the cards soon.

    Again, this may be a general truth for most women, or I may have my own issues.

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  160. on January 3, 2009 at 11:09 pm epiclolz

    @Bhetto B – You should do him a favor and link him to this particular comment thread, if anything he can retool and step correct…. It’s not cruel because at least he can grasp the magnitude of visceral hate you have for him and he’ll cut the cord. =)

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  161. on January 3, 2009 at 11:13 pm Lisa

    To Joe:

    I’m the woman in Roissy’s email #3.

    OK, so the guy wasn’t an omega. I suppose it could have worse. He could have been 300 pounds with bad breath, and pimples all over his face. (Perhaps that would make him an omega?) He was just *extremely* thin, and hunched over, with messy hair.

    I called him an omega, because I found him to be very clingy, annoying and unattractive. Perhaps I over reacted. Roissy was right when he wrote that the guy sounds like a lesser, block headed beta with no game. I should also add that both times I met this guy, he managed to fall asleep at the dinner table.

    Joe, I don’t know where you’re from, but Central Park at night is not a safe place. Google the Central Park Jogger. An ordinary man and woman don’t stand a chance against those marauding gangs of hoodlums, armed with bricks, knives, and who knows what else. My rule is, never walk through Central Park at night, even if it’s a Brad Pitt lookalike offering to walk with me through there.

    So Joe, to sum it up, being generous is fine. Being too generous reeks of desperation. I realize that desperate women are a turnoff for men. For me the same thing is true of desperate men.

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  162. on January 3, 2009 at 11:46 pm Bhetti B

    He actually does hear voices in his head, one of which is very violent and that he lets ‘take over’ if he’s upset. (See what happens when you repress the alpha?)

    So it’s not an option epic 😦

    *wishes she were making this shit up* First proper boyfriend too.

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  163. on January 4, 2009 at 12:26 am Jack

    Bhetti, yes, I think you have your own issues. Most importantly, why did you get into the relationship in the first place – with a guy for whom you said you will “never love”? You seem cruel. At some point, you need to be accountable and not blame a man’s betaness for your shitty actions. He might be beta, but you’re a bitch.

    Lisa – I’m guessing if he was 6′, 180 and standing up straight your reaction would have been different. Correct?

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  164. on January 4, 2009 at 12:36 am Lisa

    Jack — maybe or maybe not.

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  165. on January 4, 2009 at 12:43 am Joe T.

    Lisa –

    what “Joe” are you referring to? I didn’t see any comments on this thread by any Joe other than myself, and I don’t think I commented on your email. I think someone named “Jack” did comment, though.

    As for the Central Park Jogger, I know about that, having lived in NYC when that happened… the whole “Wilding” incident.

    By the way, I think most of the convicted “yoots” had their convictions vacated, on the grounds that they were coerced. (So much for our criminal justice system, racism, and politically-correct kangaroo courts which wanted to hang 5 young minority kids to propitiate a white female Yuppie who worked on Wall Street for Salomon Brothers, and was probably cheating and screwing the very minority communities where her alleged “rapists” lived.)

    I give you this from Wikipedia:

    “Based on Reyes’ confession, the DNA evidence, and the questionable confessions, Morgenthau recommended that the convictions be vacated. In light of the “extraordinary circumstances” of the case, the prosecutor recommended that the court vacate not only the convictions related to the assault and rape of Meili, but also those for the other crimes to which the defendants had confessed. The rationale was that the defendants’ confessions to the other crimes were made at the same time, and in the same statements, as those related to the attack on Meili. Had the newly-discovered evidence been available at the original trials, it might have made the juries question whether any part of the defendants’ confessions were trust-worthy.[7]

    “Morgenthau’s recommendation to vacate the convictions was strongly opposed by Linda Fairstein, who had overseen the original prosecution but had since left the District Attorney’s office.[6]

    “The five defendants’ convictions were vacated by New York Supreme Court Justice Charles J. Tejada on December 19, 2002. As Morgenthau recommended, Tejada’s order vacated the convictions for all the crimes of which the defendants had been convicted.”

    “Marauding gangs of hoodlums”, Lisa?

    Or paranoia and racism?

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  166. on January 4, 2009 at 12:58 am epiclolz

    @Bhetti B – To avoid being a sociopath in training, just make sure you have an honest view of choice cause/effect/responsibility because things are never clean cut. You should go ahead and let him go, so you don’t waste any more of his or your time.

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  167. on January 4, 2009 at 2:18 am Mu'Min

    Sarging On The Humbug
    Jan 4 2009
    Obsidian reporting

    I’ve just got in from a rather early night of Sarging. Actually, I didn’t even get to go in-field, because the party was over (put to bed by the cops) right before I arrived, which was about 12.30AM; that was my bad-not only did I miss out on heading to her party last night behind messing around w/Ricky (gotta get a new wing), but I got caught up jawing on the horn w/Brown Sugah (more on that operation soon) and dozed off; I’d meant to get rolling around 8PM, didn’t wakeup till 10.

    But I got something very interesting out of it.

    To start things off, let’s rewind the clocks back to about 5.30PM or so, Fri Jan 2 2009:

    I’m on my way to bust my check and miss the bank before it closes, so I head to my second option the checkcashing spot. I’d known the folks there for years, and they always had a revolving door of girls working there. This time the girl working was a cute blonde-haired Latina w/a seriously phat booty. Her name is Lucky.

    LUCKY: Why does your check have numbers and initials where the name’s supposed to be?

    MU: I don’t know, that just how the company does things *slides ident under window*

    *fluff for 10 seconds*

    MU: Oh, Happy New Year!

    L: Happy New Year to you too!

    MU: Party hard didn’t ya?

    L: No, didn’t go anywhere…what about you?

    MU: Me & my team did the darnd thing. Gonna do it again tonight, too.

    L: Really? I don’t go out much, but I do have parties at my house to raise money to pay the bills (NOTE: these sort of things happen quite a bit in the hood).

    MU: Oh yea, that’s what’s up, I gotta come by and check you out.

    L: That would be great, Papi…

    MU: Well look, write down your info on this *slips paystub back under window*

    She ends up giving my her home address.

    All within the space of about 5 minutes, sight for the most part, virtually unseen.
    Not bad.

    I aint gonna front. That was the first time I’d ever talked to a gal and got her *home address* like that before. And I wasn’t geared up, wasn’t running “standard” Game, etc. I just kept the convo going. I’ve gotten cell phone numbers and email addresses. And yea, she was throwing a party at her crib and needed bodies w/their “dollar to holla”. Still in all, given the kind of fever she was giving me during our back and forth, I’d still say, not bad.

    And I have to mention, that I was still very much pissed from the night before. So maybe that had something to do with it, I don’t know.

    What I do know is that when I arrived, with about ten cop cars all over the place, she told me to definitely check her out next week, they’d be partying again.

    Stay tuned for my post House Party report…

    Salaam
    Mu’Min
    The Obsidian

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  168. on January 4, 2009 at 2:21 am David Alexander

    DA, I don’t even know what to say about this.

    I could say the same about you. You come across as a weak woman who will leech of a man to feel complete in her life, and when he fails do to that, you’ll nag him until you grow tired of him, and find an alpha to bang. I’d rather stay alone than deal with broken women like yourself.

    We were also taught not to turn down the sexual requests of our *husbands*.

    Ahh yes, that’s what I want. A wife who only lets me fuck her out of pity and duty instead of actual desire.

    Feminism brought you a woman who stays home to work on her “art”

    Feminism rescued men like me from being suckered into relationships where a false sense of security develops and men believe that they’re loved and admired by their wives in family. In contrast, men have been saved from soul-sucking, dream-crushing relationships where the women have nothing but contempt for men that they only associate with for a co-signer for a mortgage.

    In turn, feminism delivered a bright future for my female friends and family members as it allows to be something other than just wife and mother, but something useful and functional in society. Hell, the fact that women can work for middle class wages means that women can pay for their own trinkets instead of begging (and shaming) their husbands into buying them stuff.

    Work, DA. Relationships are work for *BOTH* people. For some of us, they are worth it. Stick to your pr0n, I think you are way too lazy to even have a FWB.

    You’re right, I’m too lazy to go hunt for a relationship. If a relationship requires work, then what’s the point? It’s admittedly much easier to jerkoff at home than to even deal with the logistics of attempting to have sex.

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  169. on January 4, 2009 at 2:34 am Tupac Chopra

    loser:

    If a relationship requires work, then what’s the point?

    “If life requires effort, then what’s the point?” – DA, just before slicing lengthwise

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  170. on January 4, 2009 at 2:48 am David Alexander

    “If life requires effort, then what’s the point?” – DA, just before slicing lengthwise

    One may be too lazy to do one thing, but it doesn’t imply that you’re too lazy to do something else.

    Besides, my preferred method has been electrocution by railway overhead wire in a rich suburb of New Jersey.

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  171. on January 4, 2009 at 3:18 am BasilRansom

    was browsing bb.com transformations, found some game tips, ironically enough, from a former extreme fattie – http://bodybuilding.com/fun/louis5.htm . Change one thing, and changing everything else will be that much easier.

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  172. on January 4, 2009 at 4:05 am Glengarry Glenpoon

    I’m not sure if any of you (especially guys) have experienced this, but being with a guy you’re repelled from — especially alone — feels like a violation.

    Betas and AFCs, reread this. Actually, to answer your question, I’d feel the same sort of desperation trapped with some old sabertooth whale (would that be an orca?) looking to get lucky.

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  173. on January 4, 2009 at 4:05 am Mu'Min

    Yo Dave-
    QT’s gotta great point at the end of the day, and just to put a finer tip on then end of the stick, lemme just ask you, straight up:

    WHY ARE YOU HERE?

    I mea really, man. What’s the point? You damn sure ain’t here to even *try* to up your Game, and everyone here done pretty much said they too-too tired of hearing you moan. Now, personally, I think what you’re doing is below pathetic, because a loser can still have a degree of dignity in my book. Fine. But my man, that ish you doing is seriously whacked.

    So, I don get it, Dave. What gives?

    Oh, and while I got you here, lemme drop somethin’ else on ya: Women don’t need Men to help pay for their mortages. I personally know more Women than Men, single, who have them. Right now. And that’s been the case for at least a decade. We can quibble about *why* that is, but bottomline, is that they do.

    I personally don’t know these Women who snatch up a Beta to pay the bills but then dip to bang the Alpha; what usually happens is that she’s married to some dude who done fell off and she goes creepin. But is that really her fault, or his? I was talkin to a married chick the other day, and during the course of our convo comes to find out that her hubbie of more than a decade, aint NEVER gave his Woman a bath. Think about that.

    She’s a Pump & Dump waiting to happen. And in my book, based on the above and a few other things she let slip during the course of our convo, I gotta put the blame on dude, who apparently don’t think its worth putting that kind of work in.

    Sound familiar Dave?

    So lemme set this straight here before you respond to me in very pointed language to my questions: I’m all for you spending your youth and life overall in the way you see fit. I have no idea with you opting to choke your chicken in Porn-assisted bliss, instead of putting up with the headache of real live Women. And I hear ya when you voice your aversion towards Marriage.

    But let’s not get this twisted Dave. You consistently post on a Game blog w/absolutely no intention of learning any yourself, if anything you find every reason under the Sun not to. You then proceed to shootdown every other means of actually interacting in real time sexually with Women. Now, if you were *really* cool with your life as you describe it, you wouldn’t be here. So tht tells me that something’s amiss, Dave.

    Let’s see if you can at least be Man enough to step in the name of Love, Brother.

    Holla

    Salaam
    Mu

    LikeLike


  174. on January 4, 2009 at 8:58 am Mark in Ark

    On feminists (or Obama supporters):

    “It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers-out of unorthodoxy.” -George Orwell, 1984

    LikeLike


  175. on January 4, 2009 at 9:47 am Smiler

    On feminists (or Obama supporters):

    Precisely. They’re just doing the bidding of the alpha males in authority.

    LikeLike


  176. on January 4, 2009 at 11:20 am random passerby

    Cannon’s Canon:

    I probably should have gone physical-alpha over that NYE cuckold and made it happen.

    Unlikely. You sound like the sort of incompetent fuckwit who couldn’t “physical-alpha” (lol) an old lady in a wheelchair. Don’t worry though, that’s normal for PUAs.

    LikeLike


  177. on January 4, 2009 at 11:41 am Realist

    First of all, this web site is devoted to a brotherhood – everyone is here to share information in a friendly way.

    There are many things about us that it is not polite to really dwell on. For example, some of us are good looking and some are not good looking. We don’t want there to be a war between the good looking types and the non good looking types.

    Some of us have jobs that give us very very high incomes – some of us have jobs that pay very little. We don’t want to have competition between us in that regard.

    Of course, most people that have carefully studied all the available scientific literature (there are literally thousands of studies that correlate IQ to race and studies that correlate IQ to success in life) have come to the conclusion that the races have differences in IQ

    This is a subject that is just not polite to discuss. Some things that are “true” are just not polite, just not appropriate to dwell on.

    The truth is just too depressing. You can’t really do much to impact your children or your grand children’s fate in life.

    If two people from a high iq race marry and have kids, chances are their kids will have an IQ over 100. This is because IQs of kids regress to the race’s IQ

    If two people from a low IQ race marry and have kids, chances are their kids will have an IQ UNDER 100. reversion to the mean of that race.

    So let’s just be honest, and say that the facts about IQ and race are uncomfortable. These facts can divide us and distract us from the task at hand.

    IQ and race is not a polite subject. Let’s not pursue it on this site – leave it to other sites

    LikeLike


  178. on January 4, 2009 at 12:29 pm Mu'Min

    Realist,
    It doesn’t bother me *one little bit* that we discuss Race & IQ here or anywhere else. My thing is, OK, so Black folks may not be as smart as Whites, Asians, Jews, etc. OK, so what, the world’s gonna blow up? Black folk gonna be marched off to the ovens? What? I just don’t see the big deal about it, really. I mean, as you said, there are people who are just better looking than others. OK, so then what? Does the world end?

    My man T said both here and at his place recently, that a lot of this Race & IQ talk is in a way kinda a proxy for other stuff, and I agree with much of his thoughts. For me, I can dig how a lot of White guys feel put upon by Affirmative Action and the like. I feel ya. Most Black folk really do believe that Black folk ain’t all that smart, and that’s been the case since Day One in this country, so this idea that we gotta put the kabosh on this discussion is a day late and a dollar short.

    The thing to me is, “now what”? And it seems there ain’t many people too interested in that. Now I’m not saying that anyone has to be, but, you see, I like to see myself as something of a problem solver. If Black folks ain’t so smart on average, than what do we do as a society to ensure they get the biggest bang for their buck? Because, and don’t get this twisted, WE ARE AMERICANS, AND WE AIN’T LEAVING. We are gonna be to represent. Period. Everybody ant be an MBA, a hotshot lawyer, a Big Bang Hank trader on Wall St. But you *can* be a productive member of society and live a full and rich life. And I don’t hear anywhere *near* as much discussion on *that* end of things, R. And part of the reason why I think that is, is because those who scream the longest and loudest about Race & IQ-which, again, for the record, I’m all for exploring (and I’m Black)-really don’t think of those on the “left end” of the Bell Curve as “their” problem. And that’s where they get ish all twisted, because we all in this thing togethr, whether you wanna be or not.

    See, a for real HBDer understands that there is *no such thing* as a “master race”. Now, to be sure, there ARE some things about certain Races that are better than others-dont get me wrong, I have ZERO intention of leaving the USA to head for *anywhere* on the African continent right about now-but the idea that Black folk are basically doomed because they consistently lag behind Whites etc IQwise is a bit much to me.

    I just wish we could actually have some *productive* discussion, and this goes for the umpteen other forums that talk about this topic too, on Race & IQ. At some point one has to be pointed in that direction, otherwise it all just comes off like hi-post Sour Grape Hatin’-White dudes feelin some kind of way that they ain’t gettin’ on in life. And, as we learn in Game, the *last* thing you wanna be, especially as a Man, is a sore loser.

    So, my thing is, get rid of AA, it was a bad idea from the start though well intentioned. But when we do it, we gotta get rid of ALL OF IT-meaning, those “Women’s Studies Depts”-GONE. “Legacy admits”-GONE. If we’re gonna do Meritocracy for real, let’s have it. I, for one, am completely cool with Jews and Asian Males being this country’s official Cognitive Elite.

    I just don’t think most Whitebread Homies would be.

    So, yea, I’m all for discussing those “impolite” things. I’m just not for a hi-post Shell Game. If we’re really serious about doing things on the up and up, all of you know where to start. And you don’t need a high IQ to do that.

    You just need some balls.

    Now-can we actually get back to discussing Game?

    😉

    Salaam
    Mu

    LikeLike


  179. on January 4, 2009 at 12:30 pm Keith

    @ Mu’Min

    “Its a very sad but bitter Truth. Women take nice guys for chumps. Period. And here’s the kicker-

    The Hotter she is, the more likely she is to take your kindness for AFC-type weakness. Believe dat. ”

    Then your moral test is this – Be kind anyway, indifferent to her pussy and her immature belief that niceness equals chumpiness, because that is the right thing to do. That is what makes you a real man.

    You make a big deal out of being a Muslim. Religion is all about doing the right thing even when it doesn’t get you what you want in the here and now.

    So are your beliefs sincere or aren’t they? Do you pass or fail?

    LikeLike


  180. on January 4, 2009 at 12:50 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    For all the talk on IQ, no one has mentioned that it was the high IQ types on Wall Street that have destroyed this country’s economy with deceptive practicies and outright theft.

    That, in my opinion, will leave the country in worse shape than the legacy of blacks on the inner city — who mostly just shoot each other or rob people of a few bucks.

    People get enraged when blacks rob them of one or two things, but don’t seem to care that BILLIONS were stolen because of Wall Street deception. What has happened on Wall Street is going to have major ramifications for generations. Worse, it’s destroyed this country’s confidence in itself and its instiitutions. This is like Watergate on steroids in terms of how Americans view their own country.

    Anyone care to comment on why high IQ types have such little morality?

    LikeLike


  181. on January 4, 2009 at 12:50 pm Mu'Min

    Hey Keith,
    Good questions, glad you asked them.

    In Islam there is a prominent saying: trust in Allah, but tie your camel.

    In other words, its great to have faith/morals, but you also have to use your head. The reality is that I don’t live in Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or any of the umpteen semi-Sharia countries around the world. If I did, Game wouldn’t be *as* necessary (please run a search for my previous musings on Game from a theological POV, where I cite the Qur’an). But I don’t. I live in a democratic, free market based polity, in the early 21st century. What works in the aforementioned places simply will not work here. I trust in my God but I also have to tie my camel.

    I challenge you to refute the actual statements you quoted me as saying. I’m telling you Keith that being a nice guy will NOT get you laid, *especially* by Hot Babes. Now, please note that I didn’t say “be an asshole”, though I can promise you that they gettin a lot more a** than Mr. Nice Guy is. I’m simply saying that being too nice is not a good strategy for getting somewhere with Women, especially the kinds you actually want.

    Now-is what I said, true, or false?

    Any questions?

    Salaam
    Mu

    LikeLike


  182. on January 4, 2009 at 12:55 pm Mu'Min

    *Mu runs up on DBA & gives him chest bump*

    Salaam
    Mu

    LikeLike


  183. on January 4, 2009 at 12:59 pm QT

    David –

    You come across as a weak woman who will leech of a man to feel complete in her life

    I wonder what about my comments makes you think this, but nothing could be further from the truth. I actually put my ex-husband through grad school.

    I didn’t fuck my ex-h out of pity. I was raised to have an open mind about sex once I was married, that my spouse may want to do things that might give me pause, but that I should always try them, because in the end, I would probably like it too. This was from my mom, who was a virgin when she got married.

    That is something you can’t grasp about the mind of women, David, that serving & submitting gives us pleasure *on some level*. I am not talking about a dom/sub relationship. Even in a successful vanilla relationship, there are little ways in which this happens on a daily basis. (Feminism replaced this need to serve a man/the family with the institution). The problem is that we run into way too many men like you who are without direction. How can I, as a female with my act together, take direction or be lead by someone who “can’t be bothered with the logistics of having sex” never mind raising a family or, barring that, having a happy adult relationship?

    Women were able to work for middle class wages long before feminism as we now know it took hold, even pre WWII. The feminism that we are in the grip of now is destroying men. All of my friends who have boys are constantly told their sons need to be medicated to be in school, they are too hyper, they are too “physical” with each other, they demonstrate “inappropriate anger”. Bullshit. They are being boys.

    If you find it more fulfilling to live your life the way you do, well, its a free country. But don’t get the story twisted. I make enough money that I could easily get the things I want without ever having a man in my life again. For me, that would be an empty life.

    Mu is right, this blog is about Game – or is supposed to be, anyway. The fact that it is even necessary is what astounds me. Ultimately, you and I don’t disagree on the sad state of affairs. Where we part ways is that I can’t live with it the way it is, and I am willing to work my ass off to have what I want, which is a good relationship with a man with his nuts intact.

    LikeLike


  184. on January 4, 2009 at 1:14 pm epiclolz

    @ Wtf Ducks
    It takes a certain threshold of courage for a Beta to admit that he doesn’t know what he is doing or that he is not a natural. For those who become self aware, I believe it is simply a choice between trying and failing and just not trying at all. I think that it is a testament to the fact that we got out of the trees and made this modern world that most of our ancestors made the ‘Get Rich or Die Trying’ approach to problems/challenges…. For those who are blind to their fundamental lack of understanding as far as social culture goes, it is ok for them to stay in the dark, because they don’t know any better. But if you are gifted with a beam of knowledge… I think it is a far better choice to try to ‘Box with god’ so to speak… than to just say oh well… I can’t do anything about it. To your point though, if you are self aware, the best strategy is to try to improve your situation, vs letting fear render you immobile. In aggregate though, Game will only save those who seek it… it is no answer to the greater challenge that has continually confronted our species existence. For those of use who do not have the Primal Biological Adaptations hard wired, our cognitive ability to learn allows us to take advantage of our Secondary Biological abilities to get the same outcome. IMHO there is no difference between a natural and a alpha-masquerader who is completely congruent because the outcomes are the same. Fake it till you become it. This is similar to learning how to do Sales… some people have the natural programming to do it, others can learn it and apply it with equivalent efficiency… Given the same outcomes you wouldn’t differentiate the abilities of either. Time to catch a plane…. cheers

    LikeLike


  185. on January 4, 2009 at 1:25 pm Mu'Min

    *Gives QT major dap on dat*

    Right On, Sister. Right On.

    Salaam
    Mu

    LikeLike


  186. on January 4, 2009 at 1:25 pm Joe T.

    “The reality is that I don’t live in Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or any of the umpteen semi-Sharia countries around the world. If I did, Game wouldn’t be *as* necessary”

    OK, here’s a thought experiment for every real man out there who fancies himself as being true to himself.

    If I said you could have a real “10”, any age you want (ideally she would be around 15-20 years your junior, but her age is up to you), a stone cold beauty who is in every way physically your “ideal” woman (I’m talking ideal face, ideal body to suit your tastes, etc.)…

    She is actually, genuinely, incredibly hot and just looking at her is guaranteed to give you a massive, steel-rod erection whenever you’re in the mood.

    Furthermore, she has the “ideal” personality to suit whatever you want, or damn close to it. She is submissive when you want her to be submissive, and aggressive when you want her to be aggressive.

    She is also as intellectually gifted as you want her to be. If the idea of a brilliant, intellectual woman appeals to you — someone who can carry on a conversation about whatever topic you bring up — then that is the kind of woman she is. If the idea of a naive ingenue appeals — a girl who is childlike and needs to be taught — then that is what she is. She is as formally educated, or as underreducated (if you have a tender ego), as you wish.

    This is “Dial-A-Woman” in every way… Picture the hottest or most desirable woman ever, in your mind, and this is her.

    Furthermore, because she has near ideal genes, she is very slow to age and lose her beauty (the fact that she may be about 20 years younger than you also helps…)

    She also has the “perfect” personality. And she likes to have sex, as frequently or as infrequently as you want, with whatever kinks you want, in any way you want, with no complaints.

    Personality-wise, she is also ideal. She is funny if you want a funny woman. Serious, smoldering and passionate if you like that. She is 100% respectful of you and your friends, and treats you like a man. She waits on you if that’s what you want. She’s an incredible cook and totally devoted to you. She doesn’t complain about doing housework, for she sees that as her role as a woman (if that’s the kind of woman you want). She is stylish, always wearing the hottest clothes, and will wear whatever you want her to, whenever you want. She is very responsible with your money and gets your permission before making any purchase, especially if the purchase is for her.

    She’ll work outside the home and bring home some bacon if that’s what you want. She doesn’t have to play the role of “free rider” if you don’t want that. She may have education and skills enough to earn a fairly sizable income, enough to provide whatever extra spending money she needs, so she’s not a drain on your finances, if that’s what you want. She does it all without complaint.

    I don’t want to make this scenario sound too ideal, or unrealistic, because the haters and the confused will discount it and say it’s impossible. Or they’ll say, “I don’t want a 10 — too risky!”

    To that, I say, then if you want, she’s a 9.5 or a 9 or an 8 — whatever YOU want, if you think a 10 is too unrealistic (I personally think that’s stupid, but do what you want!)

    And she’s a real human being, so she makes real human mistakes sometimes… she occasionally complains or gets PMS. She’s a real woman, not a sexbot or a Stepford Wife.

    But she loves you and is 100% devoted to you… and — here’s the kicker — she is guaranteed to be 100% faithful. She is submissive and traditional enough to suppress her natural desires for other men, because she really loves you and believes in your relationship.

    Now, here’s what many here would consider the downside…

    You have to MARRY her. In a reasonable amount of time after dating, courtship, engagement, etc., you will marry her and settle down. You will do everything according to “traditional” norms, and eventually, you will have children with her.

    When you marry her, you must announce it to all your friends and family, and live openly as a married couple.

    Remember, she will be 100% faithful to you forever.

    And remember, she has the “perfect” personality. She is as submissive and accommodating as you want. She tolerates all your quirks, your bad habits, your annoying traits, even your occasional temper tantrums and brutality, without complaints or with minimal complaints.

    I’ll even throw in this: when you have kids, you will have NO financial problems supporting them. You are moderately rich in this scenario. (If you are roissy and a financial genius or whatever, you are *very* rich!)

    Also, as a *bonus* you are allowed either ONE of the following two outside opportunities:

    1) You may, if you want, have chance, random sexual encounters with women, totally discretely, in faraway cities when you’re on business trips… 1-3 per year… Maybe 4 at the most, in a good year. You may fuck these women knowing you will never see or speak to them again. They are one-night stands. Your girlfriend/wife will never learn of these encounters, although she may vaguely suspect them. Remember, she is a “traditional” woman who lives by traditional mores in which it was often assumed that active, successful men *might* occasionally have an opportunity to fool around discretely. She is aware of this, and is okay with it, although she would be very upset if she found out. (I should note that you are able to close these “chance encounters” easily, by employing minimal or even no game… they are just “there”, waiting for you!)

    OR

    2) You may have one mistress, as hot as you want, as much of a sex fiend as you need, in a foreign or faraway city, who your girlfriend/wife will never know about.

    NOW… for the second prong of the thought experiment…

    If you want the above scenario, you have to give up your current life of having, or seeking, a continuous stream of casual sex. No more bar-hopping, clubbing, PUA-shit, gaming women.

    In other words, give up the single life of an American late-21st-century “pick up artist” or wannabe, in return for the lifestyle I described above, i.e., the married life with the “perfect” woman.

    LikeLike


  187. on January 4, 2009 at 1:30 pm Mu'Min

    Joe T,
    I think that’s a no-brainer, man. Most of the guys here I think, would sign on to that. I would.

    If it were possible, of course.

    That’s the trick.

    Salaam
    Mu

    LikeLike


  188. on January 4, 2009 at 1:36 pm Joe T.

    Mu – I would of course.

    I think it says a lot about the state of things in late 20th early 21st century America that a lot of guys would probably, misguidedly, decline, because they’re confused and this society has completely addled their brains.

    I think we are living, perpetuating, and signing the praises of this PUA lifestyle because the much better option, which I outlined above, has been foreclosed to more and more men in today’s America.

    Wonder what a lot more guys out there have to say, in particular roissy and some of the regulars here.

    I would add that this thought experiment is a real crossroads; it is a Waterloo.

    LikeLike


  189. on January 4, 2009 at 1:44 pm Mu'Min

    Oh yea, for QT:

    Whatcha think of my “Hate You” opener? Just wanna get your take on it since we were all discussing it here recently, the topic I mean.

    Also: ALL Good Women desire to serve a Good Man. BUT, the Man must first prove himself worthy of such service. This is true in the Dom/Sub world, in respect to Game (think about it), whatever. Its an Evo thing: the Males present themselves to the Females, and she chooses. Then things shift.

    OK, holla

    Salaam
    Mu

    LikeLike


  190. on January 4, 2009 at 2:06 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    To Joe T:

    Men today would decline your offer for a few reasons.

    First, some people LIKE freedom. Being married is like living with mom and dad. Even with an understanding wife, some people just don’t wanna have to tell anyone they’re going to 7-Eleven (for instance).

    Second, there’s the family courts. I know you described an ideal scanario, but in the real world things can and do go wrong. Alimony and child support can and will break men financially. And if you’re a guy who has accumulated any wealth or property before marriage, you’ll wind up signing it away without a really good prenup.

    LikeLike


  191. on January 4, 2009 at 2:08 pm Mu'Min

    Joe T,
    You mention something that is really powerful when it comes to Game or for that matter, in the scenario you described, just being a well-off married guy: Discretion. If you can keep your mouth shut, you’ll get lots more Women. Women don’t want to be dissed, embarrassed or shamed. Period.

    So, always keep in mind the words of that famous philosopher Flip Wilson:

    Loose lips, sink ships…

    Salaam
    Mu

    LikeLike


  192. on January 4, 2009 at 2:53 pm Keith

    “In Islam there is a prominent saying: trust in Allah, but tie your camel.”

    Yes, and it doesn’t say “Trust in Allah, but feel free to steal camels.” You gotta figure the line between tying your camel and stealing camels.

    “I’m simply saying that being too nice is not a good strategy for getting somewhere with Women, especially the kinds you actually want.”

    Want at what level? Guys in here are always bitching about the lack of “quality women,” the kind who would make suitable wives and mothers. But then they do all this stuff to attract the kind of women who believe that niceness equals chumpiness.

    We have plenty of people in this world who weren’t raised right, and who therefore stay at the three year-old/chimp level. Hey, using this evo-psych stuff to manipulate them really works. A “hot” woman is more likely to be like this, because everybody kisses her hot ass, so she’s never had to mature.

    Hell, even I’ve warmed to some aspects of game, because some aspects amount to nothing more than competent flirtation, and that’s fun.

    But at some point, this game stuff is just more ass kissing; being the person the hot chick wants you to be instead of being the person you choose to be. Really, how far are you willing to debase yourself for her, and how often for each and every hot chick? I see a guy like Roissy, who’s spent years cutting off pieces of himself time after time to bed hot women by playing to their stupidity, and Roissy just gets angrier and angrier at them, bemoaning the lack of quality women. Gee, I dunno dude, maybe it’s because you haven’t behaved in a way that deserves quality women, and actual quality women don’t go for guys who don’t deserve them.

    I then meet guys who are “beta” in the way Roissy and his Roissetes describe. They’re often with a woman Roissy and Roisettes would mock, and the “beta” is happy and nice, and she’s happy and nice. Sure, there’s a dark chimpy part of me that feels some moment of contempt, but then I see and realize that they’re fellow human beings with more admirable traits than many in this room and that they’re actually happier than Roissy and the people I see here. I then have the basic decency and good sense and GODDAMNED HUMANITY TO BE ASHAMED OF MY CHIMPY MOMENT OF CONTEMPT! You and I and everybody can and should be aware of our inner evil chimp without cultivating the damned thing.

    At the end of the day, your inability to do that which you most fear doing will rob you of happiness. If you can’t go up and talk to women, that will rob you of happiness. Go learn some game. If you can’t risk being perceived as “lower status,” that will rob you of happiness. Go unlearn some game.

    Clever posters have noticed similarities between David Alexander and Roissy.

    In both their hearts, both Roissy and David Alexander are paralyzed by their fear. Roissy is paralyzed by his fear of losing status or being “beta,” to a point where he hides behind a veil of anonymity to take pictures of people in public and mock them in a public forum. He has that hate because that person enhoys a moment of happiness by doing something Roissy is scared to do. If Roissy can’t get over his fear of status loss, he won’t be able to do things that make him happy. David Alexander fears independence. If he can’t leave Mom’s basement, he won’t be happy.

    So, Mu’ Min, get out there and do what you think is best. If game helps you overcome that which you most fear, then great.

    LikeLike


  193. on January 4, 2009 at 2:56 pm Joe T.

    Days of Broken Arrows –

    so the freedom to go to the 7-11 without having to tell someone trumps guaranteed sex every night of your life with a 10?

    You must be getting a lot of sex with a lot of 10s a lot of nights to arrive at that kind of calculation.

    LikeLike


  194. on January 4, 2009 at 2:56 pm Cannon's Canon

    random passerby

    “Unlikely. You sound like the sort of incompetent fuckwit who couldn’t “physical-alpha” (lol) an old lady in a wheelchair. Don’t worry though, that’s normal for PUAs.”

    I squatted 455 lbs last week as a birthday present to myself. That’s several old ladies in wheelchairs at a time. I’m flattered to be called a PUA though, but I’m far from that yet.

    I’ve been having this debate today at what level resorting to a physical confrontation betrays a lack of ‘amused mastery.’ You have to factor in the opportunity cost of starting a fight. First, it’s not likely to win a girl over, win or lose. Also, you are pretty likely to have to leave the venue after a fight, so it’s definitely not a pick up tool. Pretty much the only application of going beast mode is to teach a lesson where you feel it’s worth taking the stand. If you’re in a true pick up mindset, it should be tough to flip the switch. There’s nothing effective to be gained in terms of your goals.

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  195. on January 4, 2009 at 2:58 pm Joe T.

    “But at some point, this game stuff is just more ass kissing; being the person the hot chick wants you to be instead of being the person you choose to be.”

    Precisely.

    Truest, clearest words ever written on this blog.

    LikeLike


  196. on January 4, 2009 at 3:04 pm Joe T.

    Keith –

    although I disagree with a lot of other stuff you said, like the implications that people here are warped because we complain there aren’t quality women.

    We are right — by and large, in big American cities (all over America, for that matter), there aren’t.

    Maybe hot women, but not *quality* hot women.

    For an example of an archetypal “quality hot woman”, I refer you to my thought experiment, above.

    In such a world where quality hot women habitually make themselves available to the typical single guy, then there would be no blogs about game, and guys wouldn’t be contorting themselves to suit the tastes of hot women, and turning themselves into human marionettes to get these women in bed.

    In other words I’m talking about a world minus the poisonous combination of American-style feminism and American-style Anglo-Saxon capitalism.

    But that’s another post for another day.

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  197. on January 4, 2009 at 3:16 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Joe T.:

    I dunno if you’ve ever been married, but try having sex every nite of your life with the same woman — no matter how hot — and then tell me leaving the house – for anything — doesn’t seem more interesting.

    For that matter, try eating your favorite food or listening to your favorite CDs all the time, every day, over and over, and see if you don’t get bored — and eventually start to hate the very thing you once loved.

    I think marriage was a good idea when we started real life at 18 and died at 40-55. It’s a different world now, and marriage doesn’t work for the curious or easily bored.

    LikeLike


  198. on January 4, 2009 at 3:17 pm Joe T.

    “For all the talk on IQ, no one has mentioned that it was the high IQ types on Wall Street that have destroyed this country’s economy with deceptive practicies and outright theft.

    “That, in my opinion, will leave the country in worse shape than the legacy of blacks on the inner city — who mostly just shoot each other or rob people of a few bucks.”

    Good comment, 100% correct.

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  199. on January 4, 2009 at 3:23 pm Joe T.

    Days –

    That’s why I purposely built into my scenario (above) either the GUARANTEED opportunity for one-night stands on business trips, or a hot, long-term mistress in another city, whichever one best suits your tastes and style.

    I think you’ve missed what I was trying to get at with my thought experiment scenario.

    It was at once meant to be a true fantasy, and also presented as eminently achievable in the real world.

    In other words I was painting a picture of an “ideal” marriage, but the ideal marriage of an American or Western male, not circa 2009 in our female-supremacist culture, but circa before about 1960, long before feminism became pervasive in America.

    In order to read, consider, and answer the thought experiment right, you *must* be cognizant of that and factor in the fact that, if you wish to, you can have one-night stands or a mistress.

    You still get to have the faithful “10” wife, though, waiting at home, for some guaranteed hot sex whenever you want.

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  200. on January 4, 2009 at 3:29 pm QT

    Joe T – Some men just don’t want to be married. It isn’t easy even under ideal circumstances with the ideal person. I don’t think one way is more “right” than the other. I will give anyone props, tho, for actually figuring out what they want out of life at this point.

    Mu – I’m no expert, and I don’t know all the terminology. But it seems like your real opener was when you walked over to her and created the “debit” wrt the stool she took. Unless a female is an unrepentant bitch, yes, she will talk to the person who says this, so this worked in your favor. Then you better have something interesting to say.

    That being said, I think your follow up was eclectic enough that I would have been interested in where the Q&A was going. And yes, I would have asked if it had ever happened to you (I have never said that to anyone in the heat of the moment).

    My only criticism is – I would have been a little wary after the first question. When a man starts going at things in a roundabout way, or if I feel like something is coming out of left field, I get suspicious that he is going to try to trick me, so then my guard is up, like uh-oh, where is this going now? I don’t know how to explain it better than that. I think most Latinas experience so much machismo/directness from Hispanic men that when it *isn’t* direct, we are automatically circumspect at first. Just my two cents, of course.

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  201. on January 4, 2009 at 3:33 pm David Alexander

    WHY ARE YOU HERE?

    I’ll be honest. I’m here for attention whoring, and the ability to explain the world of relationships and such from myopic viewpoint.

    Again, I’ll be frank, it would be nice to have a girlfriend to bang and cuddle with and do stuff with, but again, I’m just not willing to put in the work or deal with the logistics of finding and maintaining one.

    I just don’t see the big deal about it, really. I mean, as you said, there are people who are just better looking than others. OK, so then what? Does the world end?

    For me, it always brings up those fears that black people will be stuck mired in low-paying jobs that give no respect to our people while depriving us of the high-paying, high-ranking careers that we need to shed old stereotypes about black people. In turn, I do fear that these facts will just simply fuel the spread of white nationalism, and make it increasingly harder for black people to lead safe lives in the United States or hell, any other non-majority black nation.

    Admittedly, MU, I do share your sentiment that the high-IQ junkies tend to be the type who gloat on and on about having higher IQs than blacks, but seem to have no solutions to actually dealing with the realities.

    I wonder what about my comments makes you think this, but nothing could be further from the truth. I actually put my ex-husband through grad school.

    Seriously, why did you pay for his grad school? Maybe he should have paid for his own schooling since he was the main beneficiary of it. I’ve seen plenty of couples argue about paying for another spouse’s schooling or business, and I’ve always felt that practice should stop since it only fuels arguments and nasty divorces. If you want something, one should pay for it from their own income, not their spouse’s income.

    That is something you can’t grasp about the mind of women, David, that serving & submitting gives us pleasure *on some level*

    You’re right about that. When a old tomboyish female friend described a similar sentiment with her current long-time boyfriend, my mind went into a panic mode because I just couldn’t comprehend why somebody would want to or even enjoy being submissive to somebody else.

    Admittedly, I must commend you on your openness to new sexual techniques. Most of my male friends seem to have to beg and plead to try stuff with their girlfriends, and at best, it’s only for so-called “special occasions”.

    All of my friends who have boys are constantly told their sons need to be medicated to be in school, they are too hyper, they are too “physical” with each other, they demonstrate “inappropriate anger”. Bullshit. They are being boys.

    I went to Catholic School from kindergarten to twelfth grade. We were told from day one to sit down, shut up, and learn and the discipline ensured a quiet classroom where the teacher could do her job properly. I don’t see what’s wrong with telling boys in public school to do the same thing outside of recess or gym.

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  202. on January 4, 2009 at 3:41 pm roissy

    I’m just not willing to put in the work or deal with the logistics of finding and maintaining one.

    DA, hold up your right hand. what is the ratio of your index finger to your ring finger?

    another thing — you may have low testosterone. get your hormone profile checked.

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  203. on January 4, 2009 at 3:53 pm Thursday

    Devlin on the Re-Africanization of the U.S.:
    http://www.amren.com/ar/2008/06/index.html

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  204. on January 4, 2009 at 3:58 pm Thursday

    Here are some lawyer chick stories from a former lawyer in Philly. From my experiences in the world’s worst profession, they sound pretty realistic to me. Doubtless Roissy could provide some further details.
    http://www.philalawyer.net/archives/lawyers_in_heat.phtml
    http://www.philalawyer.net/archives/lawyers_in_heat_1.phtml
    http://www.philalawyer.net/archives/lawyers_in_heat_2.phtml

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  205. on January 4, 2009 at 4:04 pm PA

    — Bullshit. They are being boys.

    I like John Derbyshire’s story of when his son’s school called him to come for a meeting with the principal. This principal, as I recall a frumpy middle aged woman tells him that his boy was in a fight. Derb asks the dumbfounded matron: “did he win?”

    — In turn, I do fear that these facts will just simply fuel the spread of white nationalism,

    The more numerous, prosperous, happy and secure whites are in the United States, the better off the blacks will be. White nationalism is what whites do when they are cornered or threatened.

    — and make it increasingly harder for black people to lead safe lives in the United States or hell, any other non-majority black nation.

    Of all places on Earth, black people are least safe in majority-black nations.

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  206. on January 4, 2009 at 4:04 pm David Alexander

    DA, hold up your right hand. what is the ratio of your index finger to your ring finger?

    From a cursory glance, it appears that the index and ring fingers are equal to each other.

    After work, I’ll probably take a photo or scan my hand with a ruler for confirmation.

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  207. on January 4, 2009 at 4:05 pm Mu'Min

    QT,
    Thanks for the feedback, and I’m with DA on your willingness to discuss things like sex so candidly, given the nature of this forum. Biggups!

    Yup, you’re right about the way Latinas roll, they’re conditioned to like a Hardcharger. But given the venue, I was trying to tread lightly, while trying out a bunch of new things to me at the same time. And you’re right, the “eclectic” (I LOVE that!) nature of the question almost guaranteed her being interested in seeing where it would go. EVERY WOMAN I’ve tested this on – and its been about a dozen since we discussed the topic here in the forum, reacted the same way you and GiGi did-w/that “thrown for a loop” look-GiGi even did “laying the head to one side” thing y’all females do, you know what I mean. Women are very curious creatures…even when they think something might be up, they’ll stick around long enough to see where things are going. That’s what I was banking on the other night, and I was right.

    There was something else I brought up, the “Spells” opener that Style/Strauss came up with and discusses in The Game; but I put a bit of an ethnocentric twist on it:

    MU: *after running the “I Hate You” opener* Lemme ask you something ele real quick, do you believe in spells *Mu shakes head while he’s saying this*

    GG: Yea, I do.

    MU: Yo, I was telling Ricky & them about this one dude I knew, he was going out with this chick and she put a spell on him? He treated wrong and I don’t know what she did, but I swear to God, I saw him running down the street clucking like a chicken, and I know he don’t get down with Wet (Weed laced w/PCP) like that, etc.

    GG: Really? You know there’s some people who are really into that hardcore Voodoo stuff, you know, chickens and blood…

    MU: Yea, I know! It was bananas. I used to think that stuff was just a bunch of BS, but not anymore…

    NOTE: in the Hispanic community, particularly the Puerto Rican one, Santeria is *hugely* popular. I knew this and simply rearranged Strauss’ opener to fit the circumstances, and went from there.

    QT, what are you? Mexican, Boriqua, etc? Just curious.

    And yup, excellent point on the barstool. Excellent point. Wasn’t thinking like that at the time, everything was kinda in a blur, like Mystery says. But now that I think back on it, yea, she was kinda obligated to at least hear me out…and the unusual nature of my opening shot kept things in play till I number-closed.

    Thanks again QT. Much appreciated!

    Salaam
    Mu

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  208. on January 4, 2009 at 4:21 pm Chic Noir

    MU Most Black folk really do believe that Black folk ain’t all that smart,

    Please speak for yourself. I’ve never heard this expressed by another Black person. I’ve heard Black people utter other things but never this.

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  209. on January 4, 2009 at 4:34 pm Chic Noir

    So, my thing is, get rid of AA, it was a bad idea from the start though well intentioned. But when we do it, we gotta get rid of ALL OF IT-meaning, those “Women’s Studies Depts”-GONE. “Legacy admits”-GONE
    The only way I would cosign getting rid of AA is on the same grounds as well as the rich not buying their way in. Whenever I bring up the rich buying their way in, folks go silent. BTW, there is also AA for men now. Towson University has put in place AA for male students. I’ve previously linked to the TU story 2-3 times, and have yet to have one male speak out about it.
    The documentary Born Rich covered the meritocracy of the USA. It ain’t pretty for you guys who believe that the USA is blue blood free and where anyone can make it.
    <a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9S7xFqbZXQ
    If we’re gonna do Meritocracy for real, let’s have it. I, for one, am completely cool with Jews and Asian Males being this country’s official Cognitive Elite
    BTW Asian- American males are discriminated against in corporate America. There is a bunch of crap among some about them lack people & social skills.
    I just don’t think most Whitebread Homies would be.
    They won’t be. They will find another reason to bitch and moan.

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  210. on January 4, 2009 at 4:50 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Chic Noir said: “The documentary Born Rich covered the meritocracy of the USA. It ain’t pretty for you guys who believe that the USA is blue blood free and where anyone can make it.”

    She’s right. For all the talk on IQ, the fact is that middle and lower class whites and black have more similarities than differences in that we all have no money compared to the top one percent. Wages have not kept pace with inflation for decades and the elite takes care of its own — as anyone can see by looking at the Wall St. bailouts (where millionaires got to keep their bonuses because they called them something other than “bonuses.”

    Everyone should watch “Born Rich.” It’s on Google Video.

    On another note — Chic Noir — how do you know about the Towson University male affirmative action policy? I live in that region and followed the topic on talk radio there.

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  211. on January 4, 2009 at 4:54 pm ASDF

    Mu: I think there are a number of solutions to problems that blacks face in the US today, that, while perhaps not easy to implement, are pretty straightforward and logical.

    Black people’s biggest problem seems to be their high rate of illegitimacy, and I think that all comes back to a lack of shame. In tight knit communities that are predominantly Christian, guys who get girls pregnant are forced to marry them, or the child gets put up for adoption and is adopted by a stable family. A two parent family is one of the biggest head starts a kid can have.

    The other best head start is being well to do, or at least comfortable, financially. Assuming that we now have our two parent family, the father needs a job. There is no real need to rely on the white community for a job or customers. There are something like 40 million blacks in the US. Theoretically, they could have a strong, insular economy. Why does someone need AA to get a job with a white accounting firm when they could find that same work within their community? I don’t buy into some of the dumber ideas, like black’s only toothpaste, or black web browsers, but there’s no reason that black neighbourhoods can’t be full of black-owned businesses that serve the community and keep money there. And as the communities get safer and more working/middle class, they might even find themselves getting white customers from neighbouring parts of town.

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  212. on January 4, 2009 at 4:58 pm Bhetti B

    Jack, yes, you’re right. It was one of the biggest mistakes and the cruelest thing I’ve done to be with him. I’d known him for a long while, he’d liked me for a long while. Just because I didn’t believe in love, does that mean I have to stay alone for the rest of my life and not even give him a chance? I knew it wasn’t the right thing to do to be with him, but I wanted to give “nice” and being loved a chance. Turns out nice is a cover for not-so-nice. He seems to have been quite happy. I’d like to think that something is better than nothing?

    Regardless, I was still a bitch and I recognise it. However, I do wish he’d botherto even try to protect himself a little more and not be so self-destructive. I’ve noticed in my life so far that it’s easier to care for people — male or female — that care for themselves, because if they have no value for themselves and throw all you try to do for them in your face by harming themselves constantly, the worry for them and having to coddle them like a newborn baby just eats away at your soul and affections. Everybody’s got their limits.

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  213. on January 4, 2009 at 5:01 pm Joe T.

    Just a question, when did this become a race blog?

    Not saying it’s unkosher to make comments about issues not relating to dating, game, women, etc. Just saying there is a ridiculous concentration on race-based shit here on this blog, and it’s getting worse.

    To the extent that it dovetails with topics about dating and mating, then it is appropriate. But if it’s just shit about IQ, affirmative action, etc., there are other places on the net for that, no?

    Don’t want to be a party pooper, but dang! This blog has really veered off topic in the past few weeks.

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  214. on January 4, 2009 at 5:04 pm Chic Noir

    DobAnyone care to comment on why high IQ types have such little morality?
    1.Because they think they are better than the rest of us.
    2. High IQ does not= good person or even decent person. Remember there were doctors who ran horribly painful experiments on innocent Jews in Nazi concentration camps.

    keithWe have plenty of people in this world who weren’t raised right, and who therefore stay at the three year-old/chimp level
    Preach Keith preach.
    Having a high IQ does not make life grand. I see people who are very unhappy every day. Before the meltdown, I would see many suited straphangers on the 2/3 headed to midtown who were as troubled as any hood guy in Harlem. I’m not posting about the random unhappiness that all human beings suffer at some time but the deep seated hurt that some may unleash via Chaio style.
    I then meet guys who are “beta” in the way Roissy and his Roissetes describe. They’re often with a woman Roissy and Roisettes would mock, and the “beta” is happy and nice, and she’s happy and nice
    I’ve never seen a very good-looking couple look happy together. The male and females of good-looking couples seem to be in their own worlds. They often appear to be imaging themselves with someone even better looking or higher earning than their current SO. Or checking themselves out in every passing mirror or window with a reflection to make sure the rest of us are checking them out. It’s always the below average looking (of all races) and Asian couples who look happiest to me.
    If you can’t risk being perceived as “lower status,” that will rob you of happiness
    The reason many Americans are swimming in debt.

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  215. on January 4, 2009 at 5:08 pm Chic Noir

    Joe T.
    Just a question, when did this become a race blog?

    I’ve been wondering the same thing. I guess it’s because there are number of Blacks who comment here and a number of Whites who have no real contact with Blacks. So…. they chose to air all of their questions and grievances to us.
    On the other hand, maybe it’s the economic downturn. When hard times come, people release there dislike onto “the other”.

    Once upon a time I simply overlooked the race stuff here but for some reason I find myself answering more questions and sometimes responding to the random racist comment.

    I promise to stop(or at least try):) Joe T

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  216. on January 4, 2009 at 5:11 pm QT

    Seriously, why did you pay for his grad school? Maybe he should have paid for his own schooling since he was the main beneficiary of it.

    We were married and both working at the time. At that point, our resources were jointly held. It was a decision that was made to benefit us as couple down the road. Sometimes you dedicate your resources in the wrong area, DA. Men on this board know this intimately. Divorce for me was an incredibly expensive proposition, as I had the majority of the resources at the time and I lived in a community property state. Luckily, I am still relatively young enough and without children I bounced back after a few years.

    RE: Submission -The long nails and ultra high heels that you like on women are outward signs of submission. You would rather the submission be outwardly advertised, vs having to mind fuck someone, as it were. You seem like you are intelligent enough for it, so again, we are back at your desires and what you really want to work for. Just know that usually, a woman that advertises something isn’t advertising it for an audience of one.

    As for sexual openness, I love sex, I was just taught that it is only appropriate to explore this in a committed relationship. I don’t get too into exploring that much with boyfriends until we get to a certain point, and even then. There are certain things I only did with my ex-h, and won’t do again until I am married.

    Mu – My dad is Italian, my mom is from South America, she moved to the US when she was 18. I grew up in a multi-generational household with my mom’s family, so I learned english & spanish at the same time. At one point, it was my dad and six women. I try to imagine how a man like my dad would be portrayed by a modern day sitcom – henpecked, pushed around, no doubt. My dad never lifted a finger, and if one of my sisters or I complained about why he didn’t have to do anything, he said “Because I’m the king of this house” and went on about his business. Try writing that sitcom now….

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  217. on January 4, 2009 at 5:11 pm Chic Noir

    On another note — Chic Noir — how do you know about the Towson University male affirmative action policy? I live in that region and followed the topic on talk radio there.

    I have family in the Baltimore area, I read national and international newspapers, and I’ve worked in the Baltimore area. The TU AA policy has been noted in a few articles and some people are speculating that we will see more male AA if female students continue to outnumber male students at college universities.

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  218. on January 4, 2009 at 5:12 pm Joe T.

    “maybe it’s the economic downturn. When hard times come, people release there dislike onto “the other”.”

    I think you nailed it.

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  219. on January 4, 2009 at 5:13 pm Chic Noir

    DOBA I live in that region and followed the topic on talk radio there
    What have the talking heads had to say about it ? Gimmie some info please:)

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  220. on January 4, 2009 at 5:15 pm Chic Noir

    *release their*

    Joe T.
    “maybe it’s the economic downturn. When hard times come, people release there dislike onto “the other”.”

    I think you nailed it.

    Thanks Joe T.
    So this makes me think that had Germany not been forced to pay such a huge amount for WWI maybe the Holocaust would have been avoided.

    BTW, I am well aware than Jewish people faced sporadic violence in Europe prior to the Holocaust.

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  221. on January 4, 2009 at 5:16 pm ez

    keith transcends alpha. swoon.

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  222. on January 4, 2009 at 5:24 pm Chic Noir

    ez-keith transcends alpha. swoon.
    LOL me too.

    I’ve said in the past, that keith and a few others have given me hope.

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  223. on January 4, 2009 at 5:29 pm Mu'Min

    Chic,
    MY BAD, that was a typo: what I *meant* to say was:

    There’s a lot of White folks, more than they’re willing to admit, who honestly DO believe that Black folks ain’t all that smart, and this has been the view since Day One in this country…

    Again, apologies.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  224. on January 4, 2009 at 5:31 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Chic,

    Rearding the affirmative action at Towson, a radio station had City Journal writer Kay Hymowitz on because she’d written an article called “The Boy Crisis” or something. They talked about how boys are falling way behind in school and how the Towson policy was initiated to get more guys into college.

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  225. on January 4, 2009 at 5:48 pm Game for Girls » Oxymoron of the Day: Quality Hot Women

    […] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! […]

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  226. on January 4, 2009 at 5:52 pm Mu'Min

    Just want to say in response to Keith:

    Uh, *what* camels am I supposed to be “stealing” now? The Women I speak and keep company with are “owned” by NO ONE. They came along of their own free will. And there was no false pretenses as to the nature of our association. Can’t get much more straight up than that.

    Moreover, here’s the problem I have with your proposition Keith: its a great Ideological Speech, but falls flat out there-in the real workaday world. I’ll tell you what, show me your evidence that what you’re talking about, WORKS, starting with YOU. Now, I’ve been out Sarging three times since Dec 6, less than a month. I’ve got two number closes and two major operations in the works, that’s a grand total of four in less than a month, one a week. Not bad for a newbie to this style of Game. Now, let’s say that one of these Ladies turns out to be something longterm, even a marriage. Would that have happened this time last year? Six months ago? Three months ago? Nov 6 2008? To ask the question is to answer it.

    Now-employing your “system” can you promise similar results in the same timeframe? If so, I’d love to see it.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

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  227. on January 4, 2009 at 6:02 pm PA

    Mu is making more sense that Keith.

    Seriously, unless Keith has a completely different take that I do on what Game is, he sounds just like David Alexander, but without David’s oddball charm.

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  228. on January 4, 2009 at 6:40 pm joel

    You know, this dumping on “groups” is a bit silly. I have found that it is easy to dislike “groups” in the abstract but very hard to dislike specific individuals who may belong to one of these disliked groups.

    What that means is that you might like to avoid a group you dislike even though you might like a lot of the individuals in that group. Makes sense.

    Now, how does this pertain to this blog? Well, Roissy and some people who post here seem to live in a world of stereotypes. It is easier to deal with stereotypes than individuals I suppose, but reducing people to caricatures really misses the point of living in human society. The negative results of such stereotyping is on the news almost everyday.

    About beautiful couples never seeming quite happy together. Good point. I can imagine that each member of that couple would be very insecure in the relationship, either looking for a better looking person with whom to couple or worried that his/her partner were doing the same thing. And, time destroys all beauty (To quote the Bard:

    Since stone, nor brass, nor steel, nor boundless sea,
    But sad mortality overwhelms their power,
    How can with this rage beauty hold a plea,
    Whose action is no stronger than a flower, etc.

    So at some point one or the other might make a break. That would be a great sociology study. The long term outcome of marriages of beautiful people.

    I wonder if a beautiful woman could be happy with a homely man. She could be sure he would never cheat on her, and he can be sure that his personal beauty is not what binds her to him, but some more important, inner quality. I guess we will never know, since very few homely men have beautiful women, except the rich ones of course. I guess that tells us how much humans value “inner qualities.”

    I wonder if Roissy has used poetry to worm his way into his beloved’s chamber? Girls claim that love that stuff.

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  229. on January 4, 2009 at 7:17 pm Anonymous

    Joel, you’re confusing female and male values.

    Personality and status are to females what looks are to males. So much so that even very ugly guys, like Mick Jagger or Steven Tyler, will be seen as looking good.

    So the female equivivalent of an ugly girlfriend isn’t a homely guy, it’s a wimp. And I very much doubt more than very few pre-menopausal women could feel much contentment with a wimp.

    Just like a guy with an ugly girl they’d be thinking, and hoping, for something better.

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  230. on January 4, 2009 at 7:21 pm Joe T.

    “Now, how does this pertain to this blog? Well, Roissy and some people who post here seem to live in a world of stereotypes.”

    True about some people indulging in stereotypes here, but after making that statement, you yourself immediately proceeded to launch into a stereotype and generalization about another group, i.e., beautiful couples, who you assume, as a group, mostly aren’t happy together.

    Not only is this a stereotype, but I would argue it’s a useless one, in that it doesn’t illuminate shit about couples or relationships.

    The truth is that, like almost any other social phenomenon of its type, there will be a bell curve of “beautiful” couples, with tails of people at both extremes (i.e., those who hate each other because of insecurities, and those who are secure and love each other), with the majority of such couples falling somewhere in-between.

    I’m not saying that making generalizations is always inappropriate (disclosure, I and many smart people, including roissy, do it a lot here). I am saying that if you’re going to indulge in this type of analysis, at least let your analysis be illuminating and useful, and halfway accurate.

    (As for generalizations regarding *race*, I am just saying that that is not what this blog is supposed to be about, and to the extent we get caught up in that trap, we are deviating from the initial purpose and utility, and appeal, of this blog, and making it a less interesting place for many of the people who were initially attracted to a blog about DC dating, sex, and related topics.)

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  231. on January 4, 2009 at 7:23 pm JohnF

    As for beatiful couples not being happy, that seems like bullshit. I’m sure they are much more happy than a typical couple of average looking people.

    They might break up more, but that probably has more to do with them having much better options than regular people.

    A guy who manages to snag a very beautiful woman will be much more likely to get another beautiful woman once his current partner has reached her expiry date (late thirties or early forties).

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  232. on January 4, 2009 at 7:40 pm Wtf, Ducks?

    “IMHO there is no difference between a natural and a alpha-masquerader who is completely congruent because the outcomes are the same. Fake it till you become it. This is similar to learning how to do Sales… some people have the natural programming to do it, others can learn it and apply it with equivalent efficiency… Given the same outcomes you wouldn’t differentiate the abilities of either.”–epiclolz

    So wouldn’t this, as I said, be ineffective in staving off a beta revolution? With all the naturals and successful emulators out there in a future world where the tenets of game are more widely applied, wouldn’t this further alienate those who cannot surpass their own incapacity? This is assuming, of course, that marginalizing betas is an undesirable thing for society at large. How can this scenario be avoided, then, since game may not be proof against it?

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  233. on January 4, 2009 at 7:47 pm Chic Noir

    anon Personality and status are to females what looks are to males. So much so that even very ugly guys, like Mick Jagger or Steven Tyler, will be seen as looking good
    No women are well aware that Mick Jagger & Steven Tyler are weathered prunnes. It’s just that some women like them for reasons beyond their looks. Like Joel said, how often do you see an female 10 and a male 2 walking together holding hands? BTW, Mick Jagger has a very good reputation among women. He is known to be a real “pleaser” and very talented.

    Joel- The only 10-10 couple I can come up with is Christie Brinkly and her last husband. They were a real life Barbie and Ken.
    fun fact: Christie was a few years older than her last husband.

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  234. on January 4, 2009 at 7:50 pm Joe T.

    Wtf Ducks –

    Betas, as a group, need to stop blaming alphas for being alphas. Betas and alphas should form a natural alliance, i.e., “males”, and start focusing their attentions on changing the overarching society so that it’s much more pro-male.

    Developments like the pro-male AA program at Towson U. are, by the way, a start. A very small, tentative start, mind you, and it will be attacked. But it’s at least a start.

    A much bigger milestone would be a massive campaign to systematically roll back American-style feminism, but I don’t think that we as a society are smart enough to carry that one out.

    Alphas would be wise to realize that they have an interest in a society where betas are more empowered and have greater access to desirable women. If for no other reason, because betas vastly outnumber alphas, and in any social turmoil or precarious situation (like an economic downturn, war, peak oil, or whatever type of societal breakdown you wish to cite), alphas will necessarily have to rely on betas to help keep the society from crumbling.

    To the extent that betas are empowered and have better access to desirable females, society is more stable and prosperous, and most alphas worth their salt are intuitively smart enough to know this.

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  235. on January 4, 2009 at 7:53 pm JohnF

    Re: High IQ

    No, actually it wasn’t the very high IQ types of wall street who fucked everyone over.

    It was the management and traders who did that, and those guys aren’t uber-smart nerds. They’re jocks. Fairly smart jocks, but high-testosterone assholes nonetheless and nowhere near physics type brains. I’m guessing they’re usually in the 115-130 range, which makes them stupid by smart people standards.

    Guys with very high IQ (say 140+) don’t get jobs like that, because they mostly lack the personality for what is basically a sales job (a job that really doesn’t require much in the way of deep thinking either). And usually they aren’t ruthless enough to be able to sell folks financial time bombs while smiling and thinking of their bonus either.

    Finally, having a high IQ usually does make people into “better” persons. People with high IQ are far less likely to commit crimes, be slutty, be aggressive assholes and much more likely to be nice and helpful. Usually, of course, this is much to their detriment, since that type of thing isn’t quitely tolerated. And consequently something like 1/3 of MIT graduates are virgins at graduation of *college*.

    Sure, you get the occasional Unabomber, but compared to the multitudes of thugs in the sub-100:s that’s a proportion so low as to be laughable.

    Finally, it’s just plain ridiculous to ascribe war crimes like Mengele’s to high IQ guys. People who confuse moderately bright people, like doctors, with actual giftedness really have some screwed up ideas as to what constitutes high IQ.

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  236. on January 4, 2009 at 8:00 pm Maria

    “And then we have Maria, who is trying to scare men into marrying before they turn 40 and discover they crave dick.”
    (Mason)

    HAHAHHAHAHAH! ai, ai
    oy…what can I say? It wasn’t intencionally…
    wish you all a nice week..specially for Mason (for the laughter)
    besos..LOL

    (can’t stop laughing)

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  237. on January 4, 2009 at 8:01 pm Chic Noir

    Joe TA much bigger milestone would be a massive campaign to systematically roll back American-style feminism

    What would you like to roll back?

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  238. on January 4, 2009 at 8:03 pm Joe T.

    Chic Noir – use your imagination. I meant just what I said.

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  239. on January 4, 2009 at 8:06 pm Chic Noir

    JohnFPeople who confuse moderately bright people, like doctors
    *dead faint*
    Please don’t say such a thing in public forum.
    Why do you think the average doctor is moderately bright?
    And consequently something like 1/3 of MIT graduates are virgins at graduation of *college*.
    Maybe it’s^^^ a good thing when one considers the many STDs.
    Could if be the social awkwardness of some MIT graduates holding them back?

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  240. on January 4, 2009 at 8:08 pm JohnF

    “No women are well aware that Mick Jagger & Steven Tyler are weathered prunnes.”

    Yes, they like them because they are famous stars with tons of status. Which was precisely my point. It even goes so far that *some* women actually think that they look good.

    So a guy with the facial features and body of Mick Jagger can easily gain tons of the very best women, provided he has status and personality. And they will genuinely like him and be attracted to him, despite him being an ugly fuck.

    A woman as ugly as Jagger could not do the same, no matter how much status and personality she racks up.

    Btw, Christie Brinkley would be shoved out of the way to get to a moderately hot 20 year old so fast it’s not even funny. She’s 54 years old; at best she looks attractive in the non-interesting, non-sexual way you might find a decorative vase pretty.

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  241. on January 4, 2009 at 8:13 pm Wtf, Ducks?

    “A much bigger milestone would be a massive campaign to systematically roll back American-style feminism, but I don’t think that we as a society are smart enough to carry that one out.”–JoeT

    We may not be able to see the campaign through, but your plan might have merit. What did you have in mind?

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  242. on January 4, 2009 at 8:14 pm Chic Noir

    @Joe t

    Okay I’m taking a shot at it. Please correct me where I go wrong.

    1. You want to abolish BC.
    2. Get rid of domestic violence laws.
    3. Make being over 25 and unmarried a social crime.
    4. Women should tolerate a moderate amount of cheating from their husbands, as they are only men.
    5. Women should forgo BA &MS for MRS.
    6. Roll back the laws on spousal rape.
    7. Actually, roll back all rape laws except those concerning some stranger in the night.
    8. Abolish alimony and child support.
    9. Give me a say in the abortion vs. life decision of a girlfriend, wife or former paramour.
    10. Make having out of wedlock children a social crime (I agree for the most part).

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  243. on January 4, 2009 at 8:21 pm JohnF

    Wtf,

    “So wouldn’t this, as I said, be ineffective in staving off a beta revolution? With all the naturals and successful emulators out there in a future world where the tenets of game are more widely applied”

    The benefits of game is very much overstated. Very few of those who take it up becomes conventionally good, and of those that do, most probably had a lot going for them anyway.

    I think some PUA or other said less than 5% of the guys in a typical lair actually achieved much to be proud about. I imagine the numbers for a bootcamp is even lower.

    You’re simply not going to get an army of alphas no matter how hard the shy guys drill game.

    The shy guys might become better at being men though, which has a lot of value both for them and their women.

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  244. on January 4, 2009 at 8:22 pm Joe T.

    chic noir – i won’t commit to any of those, and in general I am against passing blanket laws criminalizing shit that’s not criminal now, or decriminalizing shit that is now a crime.

    In general, though, I am talking about a social revolution.

    Unfortunately, I think that is damn near impossible in this country… we have already reached the point of no return here in America, and we are a disintegrating empire that is falling apart at the seams and dying. And I say, “Good Riddance” to America.

    Barack Obama will slow the decline, but sadly, he won’t stop it.

    I wasn’t born in the US, although I grew up here. My plan is to stay in the US for a while longer to profit from its decline, and then get the hell out of here.

    Unless things change radically, I will *not* stay here long enough to raise my kids in this basket-case of a decrepit empire, and will certainly not send them to university here.

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  245. on January 4, 2009 at 8:22 pm Chic Noir

    John F Yes, they like them because they are famous stars with tons of status. Which was precisely my point
    Okay then we agree but I think you should not forget that women have eyes and we talk about men who are gorgeous and those who hold other attractions. Like women, there are men who are beautiful and those who are sexy. A man or woman can be in one catergory without being in the other, some people are lucky in that they can straddle both.

    Beautiful- Gabrielle Union -sexy no
    Sexy- Eva Mendes – beautiful no

    She’s 54 years old; at best she looks attractive in the non-interesting, non-sexual way you might find a decorative vase pretty.

    JohnF, I had a war of words with the men about the beauty of Christie Brinkley. It seems once a woman can no longer reproduce, male attraction antennas no longer work when she is in the vicinity. Even if she is fairly young and attractive looking. IIRC, most female commenters found Christie more attractive than her husband’s mistress.

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  246. on January 4, 2009 at 8:25 pm Chic Noir

    Joe Tchic noir – i won’t commit to any of those, and in general I am against passing blanket laws criminalizing shit that’s not criminal now, or decriminalizing shit that is now a crime.

    In general, though, I am talking about a social revolution.

    Well Joe,

    I really need your help now.

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  247. on January 4, 2009 at 8:27 pm Joe T.

    Wtf, ducks –

    I refer you to chic noir’s list for a *broad* outline. 🙂

    Actually, i wouldn’t do anything that would be considered outright misogynistic, like repealing the Violence Against Women Act or anything like that (anyway Joe Biden passed it and I like him.)

    What I am talking about, though, is a massive social revolution, but again, I don’t think America or Americans are smart enough to effectuate that, because I think our “cultural IQ” is inherently lacking.

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  248. on January 4, 2009 at 8:28 pm PA

    The benefits of game is very much overstated. Very few of those who take it up becomes conventionally good, and of those that do, most probably had a lot going for them anyway.

    I liken this to learning martial arts. There are tons of cheap places where kids as young as four can start taking karate classes, and many do. Still, it’s rare to come across a teenager or an adult with fighting skills above & beyond what his natural size and strength would let him.

    The shy guys might become better at being men though, which has a lot of value both for them and their women.

    That’s very true. I’d say that most American guys are underperforming simply because they haven’t learned the right pickup approaches or because they were taught the exact opposite of what they should do.

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  249. on January 4, 2009 at 8:34 pm Chic Noir

    Joe T What I am talking about, though, is a massive social revolution,

    Please please please more info. I guess you like it when a woman begs 🙂

    I don’t think America or Americans are smart enough to effectuate that, because I think our “cultural IQ” is inherently lacking.
    We have no time for reading and the arts. We work a lot to pay for shiny shit.

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  250. on January 4, 2009 at 8:34 pm Joe T.

    chic noir –

    “4. Women should tolerate a moderate amount of cheating from their husbands, as they are only men.”

    This is a sine qua non, and the most important one on your list.

    American-style feminism is the only brand of feminism in the world that puts the “sexual double standard” front-and-center on its list of grievances.

    This uniquely-American mindset is a legacy of the prudish, Puritan anti-sex heritage of the US, which has actually infected our own homegrown brand of feminism — unlike other varieties of feminism around the world, such as the French type — where men having affairs, mistresses, etc. are considered a given, and where feminists choose not to fight on the sexual battlefield.

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  251. on January 4, 2009 at 8:35 pm JohnF

    Chic,

    Beautiful old guys are about equally likely to be able to father children as beautiful young guys. Hence, the female sense of beauty doesn’t discriminate much against signs of aging.

    Beautiful old women are nowhere as likely as even an ugly 20 year old to be able to give birth to children. Hence, the male sense of beauty discriminate the fuck out of signs of aging.

    Men and women simply do not use the same eyes when it comes to judging beauty.

    I do think women would take a much more male view if the subject of their scrutiny is a potential wife for their son. I don’t think very many mothers would be delighted by their 30 year old son marrying 54 year old Christie Brinkley.

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  252. on January 4, 2009 at 8:42 pm Sparks123

    Betas, as a group, need to stop blaming alphas for being alphas.

    Studying game and the community has quite liberated me of feelings of jealously and hatred of other men. Accepting personal responsibility for oneself will take a man much farther than whining about how some guy doesn’t deserve some girl.

    IIRC, most female commenters found Christie more attractive than her husband’s mistress.

    I’m probably in the minority of men, but I like angular faces over rounder faces. Christie.

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  253. on January 4, 2009 at 8:43 pm PA

    Joe T., you seem to have almost a cultish devotion to the Democratic Party. If you’re making claims as big as the fact that America is going down, surely you have to find some fault for that among the Democrats/liberals.

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  254. on January 4, 2009 at 8:46 pm Joe T.

    PA – actually I see nearly zero blame for Democrats/liberals, including the rise of American-style feminism.

    Contrary to popular belief on websites like this, American-style feminism is 90% a product of the rapacious Anglo-Saxon capitalism promulgated by none other than the Republican party.

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  255. on January 4, 2009 at 8:47 pm Wtf, Ducks?

    “What I am talking about, though, is a massive social revolution, but again, I don’t think America or Americans are smart enough to effectuate that, because I think our “cultural IQ” is inherently lacking.”–JoeT

    I agree about the deficient ‘cultural IQ’. But now on to the intriguing part; what principles does your social revolution entail?

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  256. on January 4, 2009 at 8:50 pm Chic Noir

    Joe T- Do you think America should move to a socialist system like those of France, Sweden, and Canada?

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  257. on January 4, 2009 at 8:52 pm PA

    Joe – what are your thought on the now-marginalized paleoconservative wing of the Republican Party? I mean guys like Pat Buchanan or Ron Paul?

    Buchanan has always warned against what you call “Turbo Capitalism” and both guys were against the war in Iraq.

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  258. on January 4, 2009 at 8:55 pm Joe T.

    Wtf, Ducks – i am going to resist the temptation to play Vladimir Lenin right now and spell out a list of things that need to be done to save civilization in America, for that list would be very long.

    The best I can say, to make it short, is thinking Americans need to get out of this shithole of a country more, and really study other societies.

    People need to take time off from their mind-numbing, paper-pushing, ass-kissing, shit-shoveling jobs, and travel more, like Roosh did (www.rooshv.com) or like I do. I’ve been to about 15 different countries in the past 2 years.

    Study other countries, other societies, other civilizations, because I’m pretty damn sure that this one ain’t gonna be around in its present form much longer.

    An academic at a Russian think tank, Igor Panarin, predicts the US won’t last as a single country much longer. (His study was featured in the WSJ last week.) Although I disagree hugely with his analysis of *how* the US will fail, I still think he is onto something.

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  259. on January 4, 2009 at 8:56 pm Chic Noir

    Joe T The best I can say, to make it short, is thinking Americans need to get out of this country more, and really study other societies

    I agree

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  260. on January 4, 2009 at 8:58 pm Joe T.

    PA – I actually have respect for Buchanan and Paul. I don’t agree with either of their stands against organized labor, but on economic issues, especially Buchanan makes some sense.

    Wouldn’t want to see either one as president, though, because I think in both cases, the downsides and their perception gaps outweigh any advantages they would bring.

    But I do tremendously respect both guys for being real mavericks in their party.

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  261. on January 4, 2009 at 8:59 pm Joe T.

    Chic Noir – obviously, I think the answer is to move to a system like in France, Sweden, and/or Canada. This is another sine qua non of saving what we call “America”, but I doubt that even under Obama, that will happen.

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  262. on January 4, 2009 at 9:10 pm Sparks123

    Contrary to popular belief on websites like this, American-style feminism is 90% a product of the rapacious Anglo-Saxon capitalism promulgated by none other than the Republican party.

    There’s a large degree of truth to this. The states that want to control the economy are almost always the same states that want to control social arrangements.

    An academic at a Russian think tank, Igor Panarin, predicts the US won’t last as a single country much longer.

    It’s intriguing, but good luck getting Kentucky and West Virginia joining the European Union. 🙂

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  263. on January 4, 2009 at 9:12 pm Chic Noir

    The states that want to control the economy are almost always the same states that want to control social arrangements.
    *gives Sparks123 the side eye*
    You talking about us folk along the East Coast?

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  264. on January 4, 2009 at 9:15 pm Chic Noir

    Joe T Wouldn’t want to see either one as president, though, because I think in both cases, the downsides and their perception gaps outweigh any advantages they would bring.
    Let’s discuss those perception gaps.

    fun fact: Ron Paul had a moderate sized following in the African-American community.

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  265. on January 4, 2009 at 9:18 pm agnostic

    Stop masturbating in public like this — find a chatroom!

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  266. on January 4, 2009 at 9:22 pm anony

    @JoeT :

    such as the French type — where men having affairs, mistresses, etc. are considered a given, and where feminists choose not to fight on the sexual battlefield.

    and who, exactly, are these men putatively having affairs with?
    Is it a double standard, or a single-standard (with wives enjoying affairs with men other than their husbands/) I suspect many American wives eventually would enjoy the single-standard, along with their husbands.

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  267. on January 4, 2009 at 9:25 pm Joe T.

    agnostic – maybe we should migrate this discussion (which obviously scares you) over to your socially-conservative blog?

    BTW, i just checked out your blog, and it’s very well done.

    nice to see another serious, smart, literate blog, even if I probably don’t agree with half the shit you’re spewing over there.

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  268. on January 4, 2009 at 9:27 pm Chic Noir

    Going back to game, men and sex.

    The legs are the last to go.

    I ‘ve had to pleasure( on two different occasions) to witness young men checking out the legs of women they clearing found attractive. That is, until woman in question lowered her book or newspaper and revealed the face of a 50& mid 60s woman. The look on the guy’s faces as they realized they were checking out elderly women was hilarious.

    Has this happened to any of the guys here?

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  269. on January 4, 2009 at 9:27 pm Joe T.

    “and who, exactly, are these men putatively having affairs with?”

    uhhhh… a wide variety of women, probably a bit more skewed to those younger and more attractive than their wives?

    I should have said “duuuhhh..” instead of “uhhhh”…

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  270. on January 4, 2009 at 9:29 pm Joe T.

    “The legs are the last to go. ”

    Most def. Case in point: Christie Brinkley… her hot body continued being hot long after her face started looking old. So I wouldn’t disparage the lady too much. She’s still better looking than Billy Joel.

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  271. on January 4, 2009 at 9:29 pm Chic Noir

    Agnostic Stop masturbating in public like this — find a chatroom!

    We are going over to the Chris Hansen chatroom. Wanna come:)

    I kid I kid

    Um
    no pun

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  272. on January 4, 2009 at 9:29 pm Sparks123

    You talking about us folk along the East Coast?

    “States” is meant to refer to “nation states,” not to U.S. states. I’m an east-coaster myself.

    My point was that socialist economies are likely to be unfavorable to feminism. If you look at the Heritage Foundation Economic Freedom, you’ll see that the countries at the top are mostly favorable to feminism and those at the bottom are hostile to it.

    http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries.cfm

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  273. on January 4, 2009 at 9:31 pm anony

    @JOET

    It’s is interesting that men prefer to believe
    -grass always greener in France
    -that there is somehow an abundance of easy women
    -that the French married women aren’t doing the same

    If it’s a single-standard for men, it’s a single-standard for women.

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  274. on January 4, 2009 at 9:33 pm Joe T.

    “My point was that socialist economies are likely to be unfavorable to feminism.”

    Yay!! Finally someone on this blog has appeared who is smart.

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  275. on January 4, 2009 at 9:34 pm Chic Noir

    Ron Joe TShe’s still better looking than Billy Joel.

    Her oldest daughter looks like him. Sad I know. Funny enough, she is kinda cute but def not what her mom is today. Same situation with Demi More’s daughters. From what I’ve read, as well as what I can imagine, it must really hurt if your parent(s) are very good- looking and you are not. People can be very cruel, even those who don’t go out of their way to say hurtful things.

    Bill Joel’s new wife is very pretty. She has that sweet innocent look that Agnostic likes.

    BTW. Agnostic I think Mya Paul had a moderate sized following in the African-American community.

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  276. on January 4, 2009 at 9:35 pm Joe T.

    BTW, Scandinavia is an exception to this, being very feminist, but Scandinavian feminism is not the same thing as American style feminism. (I’m not praising it, I’m just saying it’s qualitatively different and actually not as bad.)

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  277. on January 4, 2009 at 9:40 pm Chic Noir

    “States” is meant to refer to “nation states,” not to U.S. states. I’m an east-coaster myself.

    Thanks for clarifying.

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  278. on January 4, 2009 at 9:47 pm Chic Noir

    anony
    @JOET

    It’s is interesting that men prefer to believe
    –grass always greener in France
    I’m partially guilty of this myself. I think there are some things that we Americans can/should adopt from the French, mainly food, diet, exercise, money, and work life balance.
    –that there is somehow an abundance of easy women
    Cosign. For some reason, some of the men here think that there are men(10% of pop) who run a “cooch are us” in their bedroom. The simple fact is, on average, men like sex more than women so it’s much harder men to get laid.
    –that the French married women aren’t doing the same
    French women have their fun too. It’s probably the main reason French men can get away with their own dirt.

    If it’s a single-standard for men, it’s a single-standard for women.

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  279. on January 4, 2009 at 9:50 pm Chic Noir

    Communism is not equal to Socialism but….

    From what I read about Russia & China under Communism, both had women in a variety of high profile jobs during their communist past.
    Even in Iraq(not communist*), some women held high posts.

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  280. on January 4, 2009 at 9:55 pm epiclolz

    @Wtf, Ducks?

    Yeah, I think you are correct about not staving off the revolution. Loot the castle while you can.

    But incremental improvements for some cases is enough to improve things for some people. It’s kind of like going to college, by the end of it there is a huge spectrum of people with various levels of skill ranging from epic to marginally ok..

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  281. on January 4, 2009 at 10:03 pm Wtf, Ducks?

    “The best I can say, to make it short, is thinking Americans need to get out of this shithole of a country more, and really study other societies.

    Study other countries, other societies, other civilizations, because I’m pretty damn sure that this one ain’t gonna be around in its present form much longer.”–JoeT

    Based on your eclectic traveling experience, which elements of other societies should we consider adding?

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  282. on January 4, 2009 at 10:07 pm Anonymous

    “Translation: Betas can shovel her snow, and then when they are exhausted and sweaty they can go home, while she invites the lazy Alpha back to her place for hot cocoa and fucking…(snip)…Not anymore. Feminism changed that.”

    The way that feminism changed that for some of us is that we shovel our own damned snow, because we are capable adults who don’t shirk hard work, nor expect anyone to do it for us.

    “I hold doors for people regardless of sex.”

    So do I, and am a woman and – *gasp* – a feminist.

    When did being gracious to other people – regardless of their sex – fall so far out of fashion?

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  283. on January 4, 2009 at 10:09 pm SFG

    Question for some of the gamesters here: advice specifically for overcoming the high-IQ, ‘nerd cliff’ difficulties? I’m doing a little better than I did but advice from someone who’s dealt with nerd-betas before would be useful.

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  284. on January 4, 2009 at 10:12 pm Eurosabra

    I’ve seen the “Cooch R Us”. Most men have had a room-mate at one time or another who was so naturally good-looking that EVERY age-appropriate woman he met dropped Indicators of Interest (hair-flip, lingering, soft eye contact), and most everybody knew which guys in the dorm had 10, 20, 30 women a year. So it exists, and the question is always “Why HIM and NOT ME?” And the answer is, generally, “You’re not ANIMAL enough.” Since most men in this position pride themselves on “following the rules”, they see themselves as deprived of their due by privileged people who themselves suffer no restriction of THEIR desires. Feminism has no language to consider this except “male entitlement”, which is why most men outside SWPL know that feminism is a crock. The fact is that the inflated expectations of the average woman make things unduly difficult for the average man, who is perfectly cognizant of how things played out one or two generations ago.

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  285. on January 4, 2009 at 10:15 pm Eurosabra

    I don’t know what to do about the nerd thing if you’re genuinely autistic, other than to always be FEELING instead of thinking. Biofeedback techniques can get you aware of your body feelings, you can learn to blank out self-talk, and develop the main skill: learn to quiet your mind and recognize the signs that you’re about to get what you want.

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  286. on January 4, 2009 at 10:19 pm Jack

    QT – half Italian and half South American, huh? Damn, and you hate feminism too…we gotta talk. That’s a good combo right there. Hey, a question for you – a girl in my class asks me to bring up her professor evaluation when I bring mine up to the front of the class (she sits next to me). Do I do it? What do I say? Girl is pretty hot. Only asking you because you talked about the negs but open to other opinions.

    Joe – you like Obama and dislike feminism? Huh? Obama is the most feminist-owned candidate in history. Feminazis had so much influence his party platform took away the “rare” part of keeping abortion safe, legal and rare. In addition, he supports abortion to a disgusting extreme of the moment of birth. As for Joe Biden – VAWA is government bureaucracy geared toward continuing the feminist nanny state, sending more money to subsidize the forceful taking of children from their fathers for bullshit accusations. How can you like Obama-Biden?

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  287. on January 4, 2009 at 10:21 pm Joe T.

    For starters:

    – adopt a utilitarian, “communitarian” mindset. Whatever is good for the MAJORITY of people is good for the country.

    – massive public transport especially high-speed rail

    – massive improvement in elementary and secondary education

    – eliminate *all* organized sports teams in elementary and secondary schools (but strengthen physical education programs)

    – start teaching foreign languages from kindergarten or 1st grade – seriously (especially chinese, arabic, japanese, russian, hindi, etc. – the harder languages)

    – school “periods” in primary and secondary school should last 2-3 hours, rather than current 50 minutes. Concentrate on basics like math, reading comprehension

    – teach critical thinking and philosophy in primary and secondary schools, as in France

    – legalize most illicit drugs, especially marijuana

    – cap CEO salaries to 20-30x that of a line worker, as in Japan, instead of 300-400x that of a line worker, as exists in the US

    – national power grid based on wind turbines and solar (look to Denmark on energy)

    – ban big cars

    – legalize prostitution

    – eliminate most alimony and mandatory child support

    – get rid of no-fault divorce

    – 35 hour work week, gradually going down to 30 within 10 years

    – mandatory 6 weeks paid vacation leave for EVERY WORKER IN EVERY JOB

    – impose a much higher tax on advertising

    – reintroduce the fairness doctrine in the media

    – break up big media conglomerates

    – roll back anti-obscenity laws on TV and radio

    – retroactive pardons and release from prison of anyone convicted of drug possession or drug use crime

    – downsize the military by 50%. Eliminate all military recruitment efforts.

    – eliminate 90% of US military bases overseas

    – eliminate *all* aid and support to Israel and Saudi Arabia

    – create a “Department of Peace” per Dennis Kucinich

    – ban outsourcing of jobs. Give massive tax breaks to firms which keep all jobs in the US, including manufacturing jobs.

    – increase foreign aid to 3rd world, including massive aid and jobs programs to Mexico to stop illegal immigration into the US

    – constitutional amendment guaranteeing a woman’s right to abortion

    – tax all churches and religious organizations

    – prosecute churches for all kinds of fraud

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  288. on January 4, 2009 at 10:27 pm JohnF

    JoeT,

    Let go of the crackpot pipe. That is all.

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  289. on January 4, 2009 at 10:31 pm Chic Noir

    2 or more guranted weeks of vacation per year. Part timers guranted one week.
    The way that feminism changed that for some of us is that we shovel our own damned snow, because we are capable adults who don’t shirk hard work, nor expect anyone to do it for us.

    Forgive me
    I’m as tall as the average American man and only weight about 20lbs less. I prefer for a man to do the heavy stuff and even some of the lighter stuff(cooking & ironing).

    My grandmother can’t pick up a shovel if my grandfather is around.

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  290. on January 4, 2009 at 10:43 pm Jack

    Anonymous – “When did being gracious to other people – regardless of their sex – fall so far out of fashion?”

    When women starting spreading their legs for guys who weren’t gracious at all.

    Chic – “It seems once a woman can no longer reproduce, male attraction antennas no longer work when she is in the vicinity.”

    Duh!

    “Even if she is fairly young and attractive looking. IIRC, most female commenters found Christie more attractive than her husband’s mistress.”

    Because they desperately want to think that a 50-year-old woman can be considered hot.

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  291. on January 4, 2009 at 10:50 pm Chic Noir

    sfgadvice specifically for overcoming the high-IQ, ‘nerd cliff’ difficulties?

    Be careful with the way you display your intelligence.
    Give people only what they can understand or “take”. Avoid going into show off mode. Avoid talking at her, instead discuss with her.

    Unless you are talking with a high-IQ nerd female stay away from the charts and graphs unless you can relate/translate it in a way that the average person can understand.

    Joe T
    – massive public transport especially high-speed rail
    Yup we certainly agree here.

    start teaching foreign languages from kindergarten or 1st grade – seriously (especially chinese, arabic, japanese, russian, hindi, etc. – the harder languages
    Ha, you been reading my mind. I think I post something similar to this once here.
    My take:
    Children should be taught Two major languages, one of which must be: Mandarin, Arabic or Spanish. A second language can be of the child’s/parent’s choosing.
    – eliminate *all* aid and support to Israel and Saudi Arabia
    Saudi Arabia has this country’s ass in the palm of its’ hand. From oil to banking, Saudi Arabia is too involved in the inner working of this country.

    – ban outsourcing of jobs. Give massive tax breaks to firms which keep all jobs in the US, including manufacturing jobs.
    Agreed.
    You know healthcare jobs have been outsourced as well. There are a large number of nurses from the Philippines who work in the states. Why should we bring in nurses when we can train Americans to work as nurses instead. Nursing is a good field in terms of pay, hours, employer sponsored higher education, traveling, and advancement opportunities.

    – ban big cars
    For single people and those with small families, big cars should be illegal.

    – legalize prostitution
    No kids, no white slavery, and no trafficking. For me to agree to this, I want it set up like the bunny ranch.

    – legalize most illicit drugs, especially marijuana
    Soft stuff yes, hard core stuff like crack, heroin, meth, not a chance. Mind you, if most illicit drugs are legalized many people will be out of jobs. The war of drugs has created a ton of jobs.

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  292. on January 4, 2009 at 10:51 pm Chic Noir

    Joe Troll back anti-obscenity laws on TV and radio

    The reason why cable TV shows are so much better than the big network shows is … they can let it all hang out.

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  293. on January 4, 2009 at 10:52 pm Chic Noir

    Jack
    Anonymous – “When did being gracious to other people – regardless of their sex – fall so far out of fashion?”

    When women starting spreading their legs for guys who weren’t gracious at all
    I try to tell women that it’s wrong to reward bad behavior.

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  294. on January 4, 2009 at 10:54 pm Chic Noir

    JackBecause they desperately want to think that a 50-year-old woman can be considered hot.
    I’m no where near 50 but I think Christie is the better looking of the two.
    Wrinkles or no wrinkles. BTW Christie has few wrinkles, she is very well preserved.

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  295. on January 4, 2009 at 11:00 pm Joe T.

    chic noir –

    We also need some of what i call “cultural shock therapy” in this country.

    For instance, i would eliminate all mandatory haircuts in the military, so that soldiers could wear their hair long if they wanted, could have facial hair, etc.

    I would not only allow gays in the military, I would *encourage* them to join the military, and I’d give a few jobs on the Joint Chiefs of Staff to generals who are openly gay.

    I would ban *any* and all references to religion and “God” from any politician holding office, in the line of his or her official duties, as well as by any military officer.

    Remove all references to God from currency, as a violation of the separation of church and state.

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  296. on January 4, 2009 at 11:08 pm Keith

    “Now, I’ve been out Sarging three times since Dec 6, less than a month. I’ve got two number closes and two major operations in the works, that’s a grand total of four in less than a month, one a week. Not bad for a newbie to this style of Game. Now, let’s say that one of these Ladies turns out to be something longterm, even a marriage. Would that have happened this time last year? Six months ago? Three months ago? Nov 6 2008? To ask the question is to answer it.”

    And if any of these women turn out to be one of those scarce “quality women” that everybody here says don’t exist, then I’m thrilled for you. And I’m not being sarcastic or anything like that. I want you to have the life you want.

    “Now-employing your “system” can you promise similar results in the same timeframe?”

    No. I promise worse results, fewer closes, and more rejection, but a bigger payoff with a woman who makes a suitable life partner when things do work.

    I promise lower probability of success in any interaction, but a better relationship when you do have success.

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  297. on January 4, 2009 at 11:15 pm jaakkeli

    BTW, Scandinavia is an exception to this, being very feminist, but Scandinavian feminism is not the same thing as American style feminism. (I’m not praising it, I’m just saying it’s qualitatively different and actually not as bad.)

    Feminism here is so utterly devastating that northern Europe is where the angry male revolution is getting the most savage. It all ties to the race stuff, here, too, and if you think some of the stuff here is angry and crude, you really haven’t seen anything. We didn’t just let women in power, we put quotas in *everything*, and the result is societies that barely punish serious crime (we’ve seen that you can even rape a small kid and avoid jail if you act nice and claim to be repentant) but which throw ridiculous punishments for unharmonious words and thoughts.

    A massive proportion of the economy is public sector and you’re badly screwed there if you’re unable to follow the feminized, politicized codes of education and opinion and now globalization and multiculturalism (another idea supported by most women and hated by most men) is destroying mostly jobs that didn’t require any of that, together with disabling welfare systems that often make it pointless to even get such a job (why bother working long days to get only slightly more money than the benefits get you?). Mass unemployment of young males is awful for a society and it’s chronic in all feminist welfare states.

    Add the immigration from very patriarchal cultures. The explosion in crime is likely something not seen ever in any society that didn’t undergo war or state collapse. (Although state collapse is essentially what’s happening – we’re not just seeing crime go up, we’re seeing the alternative “social order” crime go up. Gangs, militias. Immigrants, left-wing gangs, anarchist gangs, skinhead gangs, biker gangs, right-wing militias, everyone’s getting a lot more members.)

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  298. on January 4, 2009 at 11:20 pm Joe T.

    Jack said:

    “Feminazis had so much influence his party platform took away the “rare” part of keeping abortion safe, legal and rare. In addition, he supports abortion to a disgusting extreme of the moment of birth.”

    Are you thoroughly brainwashed, Jack? Have you been reduced to a zombie?

    What is the correlation between abortion and feminism?

    Feminism never existed in the Soviet Union, and scarcely exists today in Russia, and yet abortion has been considered a sacrosanct right there for nigh on 60 years or more.

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  299. on January 4, 2009 at 11:21 pm Comment_Language

    Since some people want practical advice, here is something not covered in many standard language courses, but of key importance.

    Some DIFFERENT sounds in a given language are heard as “the same” by the native speaker. I have deliberately given two very distinct ways of saying ellos/yo/calle ect. to native Latin American speakers, and they insist they hear no difference.

    Now, this may not seem like a problem to you, but you need to realize, the same thing applies to YOU. There are DIFFERENT sounds in English THAT SOUND THE SAME TO YOU, but sound DIFFERENT to a native Spanish speaker. And if either of these sounds are used in Spanish…. you will have a problem avoiding misspeaking. You will HEAR the same thing, two different times, but THEY will hear TWO DIFFERENT sounds.

    This is why people say learning a third language is “easy”. Well, since these people’s minds have already learned to discriminate between a larger range of sounds, the likelyhood of misspeaking is greatly reduced.

    Once you realize this is happening, it is easier to deal with.

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  300. on January 4, 2009 at 11:22 pm Joe T.

    “Mass unemployment of young males is awful for a society and it’s chronic in all feminist welfare states.”

    Like it’s not chronic in non-feminist, non-welfare states?

    Come over here and spend a few weeks living in downtown Baltimore, or downtown Los Angeles, or downtown Detroit, and then get back to me and see if you can repeat that statement with a straight face.

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  301. on January 4, 2009 at 11:29 pm Sparks123

    Feminism never existed in the Soviet Union, and scarcely exists today in Russia, and yet abortion has been considered a sacrosanct right there for nigh on 60 years or more.

    The truest supporters of legalized abortion are alphas looking to escape responsibility.

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  302. on January 4, 2009 at 11:30 pm Joe T.

    And by the way jaakkelli, i shouldn’t have included the US under the rubric of “non-feminist” states, because we are far more of a feminist state than Finland, only in a different, and much more odious way, I would argue.

    The way to describe the US is that we are a society in which BOTH feminism, and “masculine” values, have been simultaneously pushed to extremes. We are the worst of *both* worlds, with a coherent, unified and all-encompassing ideology that embraces both sets of values simultaneously, and sees absolutely no contradiction between the two.

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  303. on January 5, 2009 at 12:08 am jaakkeli

    Like it’s not chronic in non-feminist, non-welfare states?

    No. What the fuck?

    Young males used to be the desired stuff, especially in a sparsely populated country like Finland where fairly recently most of the economy was stuff like forestry, fishing, mining, agriculture and heavy industry (it was mostly similar in Scandinavia, but they were more developed, not screwed by wars and transformed earlier). The post-modern service economy turned it all around. It’s been a success for only one male subpopulation, the tech nerds, but they’re now bitter and angry thanks to the sexual revolution… and outsourcing is now threatening them, too.

    Come over here and spend a few weeks living in downtown Baltimore, or downtown Los Angeles, or downtown Detroit, and then get back to me and see if you can repeat that statement with a straight face.

    We have a new type of young unemployed young(ish) men hanging around Helsinki downtown, too, and consequently most of us have updated our beliefs on HBD. Sorry. Now that we’ve seen diversity, American liberals will have a much harder time selling anti-Americanism to Europeans.

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  304. on January 5, 2009 at 12:15 am DT

    – adopt a utilitarian, “communitarian” mindset. Whatever is good for the MAJORITY of people is good for the country.

    The American Constitution is based on an individual, libertarian mindset. Whatever I want to do which does not intrude upon your equal freedom is good for me regardless of whether or not you approve. One of the great triumphs of western civilization was the realization that this mindset ultimately works out better for society than any communitarian one.

    – massive public transport especially high-speed rail

    An ignorant suggestion made by people who have never given one moment’s serious thought to how public transport is supposed to work in a nation with America’s geography and population density.

    – massive improvement in elementary and secondary education

    That can be easily achieved by privatizing all K-12 schools.

    – start teaching foreign languages from kindergarten or 1st grade – seriously (especially chinese, arabic, japanese, russian, hindi, etc. – the harder languages)

    Waste of time. Teach things that will enable the next generation to out produce and out compete the rest of the world, and let the rest of the world learn our language. (Granted some people need to be well versed in foreign language and culture, but the average person simply does not if we’re a global power.)

    – national power grid based on wind turbines and solar (look to Denmark on energy)

    An ignorant suggestion made by people who have never given one moment’s serious thought to the realities of energy production and consumption. We are not Denmark, and we cannot power our population or activities with solar and wind. Solar is one of the most expensive energy sources, wind one of the most unreliable. What sane person would bet on the most expensive and unreliable choices? This is why the free market works and government does not. With government a handful of people can make stupid, biased choices for everyone. With the free market stupid and biased people get pushed aside.

    We need abundant, cheap energy. We should be building nuclear power plants 24/7. Until there is a real, workable substitute for gasoline, we should be drilling our liquid petroleum, mining our shale, and developing coal liquefaction plants.

    – ban big cars

    Develop U.S. hydrocarbon energy resources so that gasoline is dirt cheap which will encourage the production/consumption of big cars. Big cars are where our auto companies have a competitive advantage. Big cars also do a much better job protecting occupants in a wreck.

    – 35 hour work week, gradually going down to 30 within 10 years

    Perfectly doable if we slash the Federal budget and then slash tax rates. At the same time we should, with brutal efficiency, eliminate or rewrite all rules and regulations which interfere with productive activity and wealth creation. Done correctly we could probably create a society where people have higher standards of living than now with 25 hour work weeks.

    – mandatory 6 weeks paid vacation leave for EVERY WORKER IN EVERY JOB

    Most Americans work until April 23 to pay taxes in all forms. That’s about 15 weeks vacation if government were eliminated. Since we can’t reasonably eliminate all of government, lets eliminate enough to slash taxes to the point that workers could take another 4 weeks off yet maintain their standard of living.

    – impose a much higher tax on advertising

    To what end?

    – reintroduce the fairness doctrine in the media

    Try reading the First Amendment to the Constitution some time. It’s not government’s job to arbitrate what people should hear.

    – break up big media conglomerates

    Not the government’s job to do what the Internet is already doing.

    – roll back anti-obscenity laws on TV and radio

    So you’re for some forms of censorship but not others? Make up your mind: do you embrace freedom of speech or not?

    – downsize the military by 50%. Eliminate all military recruitment efforts.

    So you want the west to commit suicide?

    – eliminate 90% of US military bases overseas

    I guess the answer is yes, you do want the west to commit suicide.

    – eliminate *all* aid and support to Israel and Saudi Arabia

    Israel is one of our best and most loyal friends in the world. More loyal than even the British. Most of the rest of the nations receiving foreign aid hate our guts and use said aid to undermine our efforts in the world, and to undermine western civilization in general. I would eliminate foreign aid to everyone BUT Israel.

    – create a “Department of Peace” per Dennis Kucinich

    How Orwellian. If the 20th century taught one lesson it is that peace comes from strength. Yet just a moment ago you wanted to disband the U.S. military.

    – ban outsourcing of jobs. Give massive tax breaks to firms which keep all jobs in the US, including manufacturing jobs.

    Eliminate the taxes and regulations which have pushed firms to outsource and they will choose to place jobs in America.

    – increase foreign aid to 3rd world, including massive aid and jobs programs to Mexico to stop illegal immigration into the US

    With the exception of carefully targeted aid to stable democracies, foreign aid doesn’t work. At all. And as a taxpayer I’m tired of seeing U.S. wealth transferred to dictatorships and to bankrupt, barbarian cultures which can’t help but slaughter each other.

    Eliminate all current foreign aid. Introduce new programs which give foreign aid only to countries which successfully adopt western ideals of individual liberty, culture, and political structure. The west became so successful and powerful because it found better ways to live. Yet the current generation panders to failed 3rd world cultures in the hopes that they will like us. How perfectly feminist and beta. We should be proud of what our forefathers accomplished, and we should teach what they learned to the ignorant and the uncivilized, which is most of the non western world. And if they don’t want to learn, screw them. Let them find their own way in this world without a dime of help from us. Or let them die. Either way we will be better off.

    – constitutional amendment guaranteeing a woman’s right to abortion

    A clear admission that the Constitution says nothing about abortion. It was never appropriate for the Federal government to get involved in this matter. Read Amendment Ten. Then read it again and again until it is burned upon your retinas. Kick the issue of abortion back to the states as the power to regulate it is a power reserved to the states.

    – tax all churches and religious organizations

    Read the First Amendment until it is burned into your brain.

    – prosecute churches for all kinds of fraud

    Prosecute government officials for all kinds of fraud, which is far greater in quantity and magnitude than any church could ever imagine.

    For instance, i would eliminate all mandatory haircuts in the military, so that soldiers could wear their hair long if they wanted, could have facial hair, etc.

    Do you have any idea how stupid your suggestion is? Military policies which infringe upon a soldier’s personal freedom are disliked by people like you who have no understanding of the cruel realities faced by armies or what it takes to enable soldiers to survive in war. It may seem stupid to you to force military members to look and act the same, but that training and unit cohesion is part of what keeps them alive when an enemy is trying to kill them. Why don’t you actually talk to someone in the military, or even in a police or fire unit, and learn something before making stupid suggestions?

    I would not only allow gays in the military, I would *encourage* them to join the military, and I’d give a few jobs on the Joint Chiefs of Staff to generals who are openly gay.

    More damage to the culture and training which have made America the most successful and feared military power on Earth. Our military is one of the last remaining areas where we can actually claim to be #1. Why don’t we fix the things that are broken and leave the things not broken alone.

    I would ban *any* and all references to religion and “God” from any politician holding office, in the line of his or her official duties, as well as by any military officer.

    It’s not your place to interfere with another person’s free expression of their religious beliefs. And don’t give me the separation of church and state crap. A politician talking about his personal philosophy or a military officer saying a prayer is NOT establishment of religion by government.

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  305. on January 5, 2009 at 12:18 am Joe T.

    “Young males used to be the desired stuff, especially in a sparsely populated country like Finland where fairly recently most of the economy was stuff like forestry, fishing, mining, agriculture and heavy industry (it was mostly similar in Scandinavia, but they were more developed, not screwed by wars and transformed earlier). The post-modern service economy turned it all around.”

    Okay. Now this dialogue has really taken a turn into the territory of the truly ignorant.

    WHAT does any of that have to do with liberals or feminists, my friend?

    Disappearance of those jobs has NOTHING to do with liberals and feminists (not that I’m letting feminists off the hook for any of the bad stuff they do.) It has EVERYTHING to do with the greed of classical liberal, what in the USA are called “conservative” laissez-faire economic policies and globalism.

    Feminists may support globalism in any given country, but they are not DRIVING the process of globalism, because feminists as a group don’t have the economic clout to actually drive that process even if they wanted to.

    The movement of global capital, which is being driven by adherence to neo-liberal (i.e., conservative) economic policies, is driving that process.

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  306. on January 5, 2009 at 12:21 am Dark Wing Duck

    Joe T.
    – national power grid based on wind turbines and solar (look to Denmark on energy)

    Denmark’s wind power is a disaster, wind is not under human control, so you have to export excess, and forget about trying to store 1 GWhr using batteries/molten metal/current in a superconductor . In order to maintain “base load” with wind power you have to maintain “spinning reserve”, wind power requires MORE burning of fossil fuels.

    America’s energy needs are in the TeraWatt Range, solar, wind, etc won’t cut it. 10E12 W is a lot of juice

    Solar is an even bigger joke, we make about 600 m by 600 m of cells (mass produced ~ 10% efficient) per year, to go solar would require 3 NEVADAS worth of cells and someone to keep them clean. Read “The Solar Fraud”

    The best option for energy independence is Liquid Thorium reactors. Thorium reactors generate so many gammas that they can transmute long lived waste into waste with shorter half lives. Thorium reactors do not produce bomb grade material and they actually consume nuclear waste.

    Last thing, the fly ash produced by coal plants has enough uranium (1 ppm) and thorium (3 ppm) to supply the world with 40 years worth of fuel. A PhD at Oak Ridge has a nice paper online with all of the stats on fly ash.

    Sholom,
    Dark Wing Duck

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  307. on January 5, 2009 at 12:26 am JohnF

    “A massive proportion of the economy is public sector and you’re badly screwed there if you’re unable to follow the feminized, politicized codes of education”

    It’s way worse than that. The public sector is mostly populated by women* and men too useless to cut it in the real business world. And they earn money far in excess of what they could do in a more free market for the same, very small, effort.

    It’s a huge transfer of wealth from the productive to the non-productive, in addition to the already huge transfer of wealth that takes place in welfare and the incredbly bloated university system.

    That wealth is taken from the most productive members of society, smart, ambitious males in their twenties to late thirties. Which means that there is very little *possible* competetion in terms of being hardworking and productive among males for females.

    A guy who works his ass off and is very bright is going to be maybe twice as good economically to marry as a janitor. When in reality he contributes maybe 10-1000 times as much value to society as that janitor.

    Another effect of this is to force almost every family to either follow the feminist ideal of both parents working, and neither having much time for the children, or accept a drastically lowered standard of living. Of course, the money the wife make is mostly just transfered from the value that is taxed off her husband.

    The only relevant selection criteria left for females, that makes much difference in practice, is things like looks and status.

    Anecdotally this seems to have made for pussy paradise for attractive guys and a big drought for everyone else. Personally I know 3 guys, not yet in their thirties, with around 200 notches as well as 2 guys with 0 notches. That’s not statistics that belong in a monogamous society.

    All three guys with 200+ have settled with very nice looking girls who were either virgins or near-virgins at the beginning of the relationship. None of them could even imagine settling for a slutty girl. The virgins can only hope for shacking up with a single mom in her thirties who hopefully is only a little fat and have fucked below 50 guys before them.

    In short, the incentives for making a growing, healthy society have been severly damaged by making it near pointless to be productive. It’s simply not going to be much benefit in life’s most important areas; family and love.

    And this is ignoring all the anti-beta cultural and legal issues. Like the time prominant male politicians had to apologize to all women, on behalf of all men, for violence towards women.

    * Yes, women are on average a lot less productive than men. That’s why they make less money. Duh.

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  308. on January 5, 2009 at 12:32 am Joe T.

    “Israel is one of our best and most loyal friends in the world.”

    With “friends” like Israel, we scarcely need enemies.

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  309. on January 5, 2009 at 12:34 am Joe T.

    Dark Wing Duck – thanks for the tip on Liquid Thorium… didn’t know about it.

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  310. on January 5, 2009 at 12:43 am Dark Wing Duck

    DT
    We need abundant, cheap energy. We should be building nuclear power plants 24/7. Until there is a real, workable substitute for gasoline, we should be drilling our liquid petroleum, mining our shale, and developing coal liquefaction plants.

    Awesome post. New refieneries would go a long way to reducing the price of gas as well.

    One minor nitpick. We don’t have to bring the shale up to the surface anymore. We can remove the kerogan (sp) in situ. There is a process where we freeze the underground water around a drill site, we then drop heaters, and pump up the oil. No need to deal with rock waste after extracting the kerogen/oil. Whoo Hoo!!

    Last thing, researchers at University of Penn developed a new catalyst to improve coal to oil. Whoo Hoo ^2 !

    Sholom,
    Dark Wing Duck

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  311. on January 5, 2009 at 12:52 am JohnF

    “WHAT does any of that have to do with liberals or feminists, my friend?

    Disappearance of those jobs has NOTHING to do with liberals and feminists (not that I’m letting feminists off the hook for any of the bad stuff they do.) It has EVERYTHING to do with the greed of classical liberal, what in the USA are called “conservative” laissez-faire economic policies and globalism.”

    In Northern Europe it has everything to do with liberals (in the commie sense) and feminists, since those are the two groups who’ve been immensely pro-immigration and made it happen politically.

    It’s been immigration very much focused on bringing in people from war torn areas, and countries with low standards of living. Not much thought has been given to the fact that those countries were war torn and had a low standard of living *because* of the people living there. Bringing in a ton of low-educated people who’ve been in wars with completely different cultural backgrounds might not have been entirely without its downsides.

    The immigration of the capitalist kind, where workers are brought in, mercilessly exploited and kicked out is fairly limited due to the extremely strong unions in Scandinavian countries. In Sweden the dominant party, temporarily deposed, is pretty much a wing of the unions, or the other way around.

    Anyway, bringing in some Somali goatherders and giving them permanent citizenship and permission to bring as many relatives as they can is fine. Paying them $3 an hour to work in a kitchen is not.

    So the unemployment among nordic working class males isn’t really due to capitalists bringing in a lot of competing workers. It’s partly due to that, but also due to the tax rates making it too expensive to manufacture much in Scandinavia (in Sweden 70 cents per dollar spent on wages is redistributed), that there is more stuff imported from China and so on.

    Generally you’re of course right that people with low value skills can’t expect to earn that much under a free market system. And working class males in all first world countries are in for some rough surprises if they are forced to enter a free job market. But that’s kind of the entire point of free markets.

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  312. on January 5, 2009 at 1:59 am Mu'Min

    Yo Keith,
    OK, so lemme get this straight:

    You freely admit that your method promises, from the get go, far less in actual results, *but* does promise a quality relationship with a quality Woman.
    Uhh, and exactly *how* dos this work? And have you done it? Are you with her right now?

    You know, as I’m going through the comments in this thread, I’m reminded of that line in NaS’ “Ether”: you fellas deal with emotions like bitches…

    All I’m seeing is flatout HATIN’. I don’t care how much you dress it up, toss in other topics, this, that, all it comes down to is “I’m pissed off that I aint gettin none, and dude over there that *I’m better than* is”. Period. Dot.

    I hear all this ying yang about how we a “social revolution”, etc. Yo man, ain’t a darned thing changin’. OK? Abortion ain’t gonna stop. Women ain’t quittin’ they jobs. Nor are they suddenly get hot for Mr. Pocket Protector. I swear, y’all dudes w/the super-high IQs be on some Crackpipe-like pipedreamin’.

    Y’all make every excuse under the Sun as to why you pissed off. The *last* thing y’all do is actually get off your ass and DO SOMETHING about your Life.

    And the thing about it is, now you have actual Technology, proven shit, that works, that you can use.

    Dig this man-if someone like Mu can get real results-using for real, only *two books* on Game, in *less than a month*-a Brotha from Inner City America, no college degree, a Prole, etc., who *cant* do this?

    Oh yea, and Keith, don’t get it twisted, you can Game high quality Women A LOT EASIER than you can the chicks where I was at the other night. Don’t believe me, read it for yourself, Strauss talks about this in The Game. And I can say, from my own pre-Game days, that he’s 100% correct. All you have to do is stop whinin, moaning, emoting and act you got a pair.

    You know, I wouldn’t say a word if you or anyone else out there said, you know what Mu, I’ve read this, did that, went out in-field for “x” amount of time, and I simply don’t have it, or it doesn’t work for me, whatever. I can respect that, because at least you applied yourself.

    But when you do the Dave Alex thing-you don’t apply yourself AT ALL, but do nothing but bitch and moan-and let’s call a spade a spade here, that’s exactly what it is-how in the world is anybody supposed to take you seriously, chief?

    I want you Keith, and everyone else to listen, very carefully, to what I’m about to say:

    Game is about giving a Man options. As to which Women will, and which Women will not, have the good fortune of his company. The vast majority of Men out there have to take whatever scraps from the Tabl of Life they get, and most take it with a smile. Not me. I deserve a lot better than that.

    This past month gave me at least four options-oh yea, I forgot to mention, two of the four graduated Summa Cum Laude.
    You guys get into all this abstract Bullshit and in reality you aint gettin’ NO PUSSY. Zero. When’s the last time you got a mean Hummer Keith? To the other naysayers, when was the last time you was taking command of a Woman’s haunches, her feet pointing to Heaven, and her screaming to the top of her voice “Yes!Yes!Yes!” Hmm, fellas? I mean for real, let’s put the BS on the side and really talk shop here.

    You see, THAT’S what I’m in the Game for-to get the Women I WANT to say “Yes!”. It’s. That. Simple.

    Oh, and let me disabuse you of just one more thing…

    If you can’t make a Woman say “Yes!” to night with you, how in the hell you gonna make her say “Yes!” to a lifetime with you? Please explain to me the physics of that.

    Lemme address this other “complaint” about Natural vs Unnatural Alphas…

    YO, MYSTERY IS AN UNNATURAL. STRAUSS IS AN UNNATURAL. And the vast majority of Men out there under the rubric of Game are “unnaturals”. Yet they gettin’ more pussy, from more *choice* Women, than *most* Naturals. No dis to the Naturals, I have many friends-Zam, Dave P, Ricky The Cancer, DS, BF-who done forgot how many hot chicks they done knocked off.

    But, you wanna know the difference between them and me? I know exactly what to say, when to say it, how to say it, and what to do the day after. Unlike my good friends, I am a serious student of Seduction, and I bring the same kind of dedication to my craft that I do to my job. Not only do I have an immense work ethic but I’m also using state of the art technology, like Batman or Iron Man.

    So, this time next year I’ll be able to sitdown with any one of my homies, and have *them* wanting to order Mystery Method. They already giving me second takes, right now. Homies on the job want me to order em copies. My barber begged for a copy of The Game the other night. Now, keep in mind, these are Brothas, and we’ve already agreed that we get more ass than our Whitebread Brothers do. But they see a Brotha in their midst literally transforming right before they eyes, and they want in.

    Yo, that reminds me: Sparks, holla at your boy 215.971.5346. I responded to your MySpace email but haven’t heard back from you. We need to Sarge in Old City man, plus you gotta take me to those seminars. So holla.

    We all got only One Life to Life, Gentlemen; when its all said and done, will you be able to say that yours was a Life well Lived, well Loved, and well Fucked? Or not?

    Salaam
    Mu

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  313. on January 5, 2009 at 2:02 am jaakkeli

    WHAT does any of that have to do with liberals or feminists, my friend?

    You’re the one who tried to imply that young men aren’t ever wanted.

    Disappearance of those jobs has NOTHING to do with liberals and feminists

    Yes, it does.

    a) The left has made it extremely hard to fire people. This hits young men the hardest, as everyone knows young men have the highest proportion of unreliable people, so employers are very reluctant to take the risk.

    b) The welfare state makes low-paying jobs often completely pointless. With some skill you can get on benefits and get promised the same money you’d make in an actual job until the day you die. Why would you go from pure free time to working 5 days a week for no rise in income?

    c) The taxation and the cost of living makes workers less internationally competitive. Surprisingly enough, the taxes are vigorously supported by all the left-wing government workers and professors of Finnish literature who are not touched by international competition. Most of the lefties get their pay from the taxes, so as JohnF said, we’re screwing the productive people to produce unproductive jobs for unproductive people – and often the job is all about bullying the productive people with endless accusations of racism, homophobia and other sorts of cultural crimes.

    d) A lot of stuff is perfectly competitive but just shut down because of environmentalist nonsense and liberal “safety” regulations. For example, I mentioned fishing. Iceland stays out of the EU simply because the EU would kill their fishing. (If you don’t realize it, pro-EU people = urban liberals.) The EU has even tried to ban Baltic fishing but Finland and Sweden have managed to prevent that. Another example: my mom’s home town once had an economy revolving around a mine. The gold didn’t run out – regulations killed the mine. This would be an endless list.

    e) Immigration hits the pay in jobs like construction the hardest. Immigrants are often even given state financial aid that makes it possible for them to accept lower pay! This is all very nice for the upper class and a fun multiculti project for the professors of Finnish literature who are not affected, but not so nice for the Finns who’d like to do those jobs. They’re only told that Finns are no longer supposed to do blue collar jobs and that they, too, should get a degree in environmental ecology and have the Green party organize some government job for them.

    It has EVERYTHING to do with the greed of classical liberal, what in the USA are called “conservative” laissez-faire economic policies and globalism.

    Rubbish. There’s nothing “classical liberal” about killing trades with regulations or crushing competitiveness with taxes.

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  314. on January 5, 2009 at 2:24 am Cannon's Canon

    Yo Mu, since you’re up I wanted to touch on what you had given me some harshness for earlier. I didn’t mean to come off like I was being nice to my girl from New Years the second time around. You kinda got at me like I was in AFC mode, but I was definitely more rocking the ‘amused mastery’ routine. See, the second night seeing her out, the bubble was really already burst for me as far as this girl being desirable. I guess I should have clarified with mention of a few more smirks and cold shoulders, but I was really just playing around to see what reaction I’d get from a stereotypical field target. I wanted the theme of my recap to be humor, humility, and disillusionment with the concept of a noble courtship process.

    I liked reading your reports, and I will be sure to flip that “i hate you” routine next time I’m out. I threw in a couple of my own lines that I was using as challenges/negs, all shit I’ve learned studing game, not self-deprecation or AFC pity bullshit. Hopefully, others here can grow from these recounts and tighten their games also. That’s what I look for when I read here after all, not the cumswap bib of centric socialist malarkey from Joe T.

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  315. on January 5, 2009 at 2:46 am Mu'Min

    Addendum, real quick:

    Since today is Ego Aggrandizement Monday, where I go to work and show the Homies what I’ve done over the weekend, I thought I’d share a bit of that with the Gentlemen of the forum. The following is part of a text message convo I had w/Brown Sugah, yesterday morning:

    MU: So that’s how U would’ve reactd if we were 2gethr & I gently nudged U & whisperd in Ur ear “Baby, cmon” and raised Ur nitie?;)

    *I gave her a “wakeup” text, and she was complaining that it was “too early” to get up*

    BS: oh no, I would give you some…gladly. I would be happy and cheerful about it.

    Like I said Gentlemen: I’m in the Game for one reason-to make the Women of my choice say that mystical, magical, monosyllable to me: “Yes!”

    Any questions?

    Salaam
    Mu

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  316. on January 5, 2009 at 3:07 am Mu'Min

    Cannon,
    Hey man, no problem. Yea, being a “nice guy” is almost a sure way of locking yourself into the Friend Zone. For some reason, people think that when I or anyone else says this we mean that you should be a Caveman; not necessarily. It just means you don’t want to supplicate yourself to a Female. She has to *earn* your respect. First. Not before.

    Hot babes in particular are very used to guy falling out over them, and after awhile it gets tired and boring to them. If you want to be successful with Women-as my “I Hate You” opener shows-you gotta be on some other ish. You gotta do stuff other guys ain’t doing, saying what they ain’t saying; you gotta be interesting, intriguiging, etc.

    So, you know what I’ve been doing for the past few months in particular?

    I make sure I get on the bus or subway FIRST before a hot chick does.

    I’ve been experimenting with this, what I’ve been calling a Silencer Neg. Its a Neg that knocks down a HB a peg or two, while you don’t actively say anything to her; its all in the body language.

    Its even better if there’s some homely sisters around, what I do is I position my body in such a way that I make sure the homely gal(s), or if there are any senior citizen ladis present, *get on before me*, but then I shift my body to make sure I GET ON BEFORE THE HB DOES. I want her to follow me on the bus. The looks on their faces is a pure Kodak moment.

    Another variation of the Silencer Neg is if I’m talking in a group of folk, and the HB says something; it doesn’t even have to be outta pocket, the point is she’s speaking.

    I simply pause for moment and look at her as if to say “WTF are you talking about?”, hold it for a few seconds, and then go “So yea, me and Ricky was down on the block the other night and…”

    No words were uttered by me at all, it was just facial expressions and body language. I’m studying a bit of old silent movies and how guys like Charlie Chaplin did it. Of course I tone it way down, because the whole point of a Silencer Neg is to do it in such a way that its, well, silent.

    So yea, I’ve been experimenting with this, try it out Cannon, and report back your results. Recommend you try it out on the hottest babes you can find.

    As for your Sarge the other night, I agree with what a few other posters said, you lunched on the hook point and didn’t press it. That’s something naturally nice guy gentleman types gotta loose quick. Women are very good at sniffing out the inner you. On the outside you was doing the damn thing but on the inside you was still from the Mr. Darcy era. You gotta be like this, if girlfriend gives you a sliver of daylight, you going for it.

    That’s what I’ve learned. And its Open Season now.

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

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  317. on January 5, 2009 at 3:20 am Cannon's Canon

    Ahhhh ya got me, I was hearing the wedding bells while I was feeling the thong! Gotta exorcise the beta within! Learn from experience and what not.

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  318. on January 5, 2009 at 4:16 am whiskey

    Joe T and Chic illustrate the failure of the feminized culture.

    Nearly all their suggestions would be a disaster. Particularly given that nuclear proliferation means even Pakistan can nuke the US. Followed soon by Iran.

    Dianne Feinstein ran an article in the WSJ calling for a world-wide nuclear ban. She’s not an idiot. What she wants is a supine US at the mercy of any enemy.

    The greatest threat to female power (and the sort of feminized Beta guys that flatter women and agree with them) is the radical non-feminized Betas getting together and forming or maintaining alternative, non-feminized power centers. Chief among them, the military.

    Every feminized culture has tried desperately to surrender to a dominating, macho, uber-masculine culture. The Nordic countries abject surrender to Islamists, and the feminist-female-Left desire to surrender to Islamists here is telling.

    Both Joe T and Chic want to outlaw Christianity, but Islam gets a pass, not only is Islam dominating (and women currently love the dominant, and more dominant and brutalizing the better, masculine forces) but it attacks Christianity. Which suggests limits and boundaries on both Alpha men and all women.

    I mean, really, when in time of war it’s easy to see you can get blown apart horribly, the Marines in particular have no problem recruiting lots of middle and working class rural and suburban guys. Why?

    Because it’s one of the last few outposts of masculine endeavor in a way that is very Beta, but non-feminized Beta. Being a Marine is not about being a big Alpha hero, but following orders and not letting your fellow Marines down, while being perhaps “improvisational’ in accomplishing said orders. “Adapt, Improvise, Overcome” being the informal motto.

    Note: that’s FAR different from “let’s all hold the politically correct thoughts that Queen Bees and their hangers-on do in an eternal game of Mean Girls.”
    ————–
    I agree with Mu’Min’s point that women will not change, however I think the “stability” of the current social balance was purchased by good times and it will be “interesting” to see how things work out when the Alphas with the near-virgin girls lose money and the near Virgin guys with the women who have 50+ sex partners decide to simply up and move out.

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  319. on January 5, 2009 at 4:26 am whiskey

    I want to be clear — the reason Joe T and Chic are examples of feminized culture is because they repeat the fashionable talking points of celebutards, instead of problem, solution, evidence cited to back them up.

    Oil goes from $27 to $145 to $33 a barrel in a few years. Big cars are a problem why? Because Al Gore doesn’t want the peasantry to ride them, only “special” people get the limos?

    It’s politics as fashion. Through the Tiger Beat media.

    Their proposals are stuff people just “know” because Al Gore or Sheryl Crowe said it.

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  320. on January 5, 2009 at 6:37 am Mu'Min

    Whiskey! Been a long time, bro. How ya been?

    Just wanted to basically cosign what you said above, and add a bit of personal testimony, as the scion of three generations of Devil Dogs. Ooorah!

    You’re absolutely right, the Corps *is* about the only for real, *Alpha* kind of institution left, and Marines love the Corps in a way that you just don’t see among other folk in the Service (Army, Navy, Air Force, etc.). I think its because of the high emphasis on Brotherhood, along with the other things you mentioned, that lay at its core, no pun intended.

    I used to hear that motto all the time: Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. My peeps, my dad and grandad, were never say die people, man. They just didn’t take No for an answer, or saw Failure as an Option.

    My grandad was a Drill Seargent in the Corps during WW2, back when they still had racially segregated barracks. He used to have White Officers come to HIM for advice on various matters.

    My dad was in the Corps during Korea, and used to tell me war stories. He said that the Koreans were, hands down, some of the meanest SOBs on the planet and that Korea was a bitterly cold place in the winter. He used to tell me how he fought the Koreans in the daytime and “the Crackers at night”.

    Anytime I think I’m f*cking up, I think of what they were up against, not just in the service/Corps but in life period. What I’m dealing with ain’t Jack in comparison.

    That’s part of what made me really pissed off the other night, and made me determined to go right back to where I’d been and succeed.

    I’ve been thinking about my Sarging Schedule, since I’m not able to do it as much as Mystery etc suggest (every night of the week)-the nature of my work just won’t allow it. And I’d been in a quandary about it, till I thought of something else my peeps would say:

    Every Marine a Rifleman.

    Marines pride themselves on being not just shooters, but Marksmen. The best Snipers come from the Corps. This is because of superior training and focus, along with superior equipment.

    So, what I’ve decided to do is focus on Sarging with a higher hitrate, since I’m working on a compressed schedule. Like a rifelman.

    I’m still working it out now, and then I have to test it out, etc. But I thought I’d share a bit of the plan since you brought the Corps up.

    Finally, on your point(s) about the prolonged Recession:

    Yo man, I’m in the hood and financial hardtimes are nothin new to me and mine; I think this is gonna be something my Brothers on the other side of the Color/Class line might have to grapple with moreso than me. But I do agree, it’ll be very interesting indeed to see how all this plays itself out.

    Semper Fi, Do Or Die…

    Salaam
    Mu

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  321. on January 5, 2009 at 7:46 am Keith

    “Uhh, and exactly *how* dos this work?”

    Be genuine.

    “And have you done it?”

    Yes

    Are you with her right now?”

    Yes.

    “When’s the last time you got a mean Hummer Keith?”

    This morning.

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  322. on January 5, 2009 at 8:06 am Keith

    Oh, Mu’ Min, I’ve worked with the Corps, and their body language and demeanor is often very “beta,” for good reason. You have to submit to authority, and in return the authority requests honest opinions from subordinates. There ain’t no alphas in foxholes, at least not Roissy-style douchebag “alphas.”

    To quote Marine Corps Doctrine, specifically Marine Corps Doctrine Publication 1, Warfighting:

    Relations among all leaders—from corporal to general—
    should be based on honesty and frankness regardless of disparity between grades. Until a commander has reached and stated a decision, subordinates should consider it their duty to provide honest, professional opinions even though these may be in disagreement with the senior’s opinions. However, once the decision has been reached, juniors then must support it as if it were their own. Seniors must encourage candor among subordinates and must not hide behind their grade insignia. Ready compliance for the purpose of personal advance- ment—the behavior of “yes-men”—will not be tolerated.”

    That leader can’t be some bullshit “alpha” who dismisses “underlings.”

    And all this shit about “don’t turn your head in a bar.” Geez, Mu’, if you actually knew anything about the military and weren’t just talking out your sorry ass, you’d know something about “maintaining your SA.” Look it up.

    “Game is about giving a Man options. As to which Women will, and which Women will not, have the good fortune of his company.”

    But how you get those options determines your result. A woman goes to bars dressed scantily, then wonders why she doesn’t draw men who are good in relationships. Hey, she increased male interest!

    “If you can’t make a Woman say “Yes!” to night with you, how in the hell you gonna make her say “Yes!” to a lifetime with you? Please explain to me the physics of that.”

    Women who say yes to the night with you based on your game won’t offer a lifetime of devotion.

    Because I’m in a good mood, son, I’ll type as slowly as I can and explain it to you. Game can get you pussy, but not pussy that loves you long-term.

    But hey, prove me wrong.

    Peace.

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  323. on January 5, 2009 at 8:34 am PA

    The best I can say, to make it short, is thinking Americans need to get out of this shithole of a country more, and really study other societies.

    I also think that travel is salutatory, but not in ways that Joe and Chic think. Their opinion is that travel will open Americans’ eyes to how much better other countries are. My position is that travel will get Americans to appreciate their own country more.

    How? by making them see tha tthey too have a culture.

    Culture is not something that “other people” have, with theri quaint folk dances and all that. America has a culture too, but people who never travel might be taking it for granted, like a fish takes water for granted.

    This makes young people say idiotic things like “I’m so whitebread, I wish I had a culture like those ‘vibrant’ people.” Silly girl, you do have your won culture.

    Or at least you once had culture.

    The America culture, which has been disintegrating since the 1960s, is essentuially a core Anglo-Saxon culture, with an enormous presence of various local sub-cultures (Brooklyn, Louisiana, Dixie, Appalachia, Southern California, New England, etc)

    Also, various racial cultures connected with black folks as the once-larges racial minority, and non-Anglo-Saxon immigrant cultures that assimilated into America’s core -Saxon norms (Italian/Irish/E.European-Americans).

    But with immigration, political correctness, and runaway economics, this is all unraveling.

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  324. on January 5, 2009 at 9:06 am PA

    Whiskey’s above comment about the reality of feminized societies is gold. Jaakelli’s comment about the horrific realities of Nordic feminism is also worth reading.

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  325. on January 5, 2009 at 9:13 am Mu'Min

    Hi Keith,
    Respect due, man. But I’ll tell you like this:

    My granddad got married shortl after WW2, chose the wife he wanted, and stayed that way untl she died in 1997.

    My dad saw my mom crossing Broad St on an early Mar day in 1969, wearing those cute Nurse’s uniforms that now are a staple of fetish shops. He pulled his Whie Cadillac Coupe De Ville over, got out, and kicked vicious Game.

    They got married less than a month later, and stayed that way until his death in 1998.

    Now, I’ve said before, that I was running Game and just didn’t know it. And because of that, I’ve known what it is to be in LTRs 5 years-plus.

    And on top of that DFH, PA, and others right here, can tell what Game can do for a marriage. So you ain’t sayin’ nothin’ but a word, K. Nothin’ but a word.

    Again: *show me your detailed plan* that gets at least as much results as Gam does, as taught by Mystery, and yo man, I’m right behind ya. Until that great gettin’ up Mornin’ comes…

    Holla

    Salaam
    Mu

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  326. on January 5, 2009 at 9:54 am Spike

    Mu’Min:

    Your positivity about Game and life has restored a lot of faith in the big picture for me, man. I’m taking off now, to do things that my alcoholic melancholic ass has wanted to do for long while. It ain’t the same pursuit a lot of guys here have, but between you and a friend of mine, y’all got me out of a several month long funk.

    I won’t be back for awhile. It’s high time I dance in the abyss. Seeya on the flipside.

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  327. on January 5, 2009 at 10:34 am Mu'Min

    You know Keith, the overall tenor and tone of your comments directed at me suggests that you’ve got problems w/Game and/or me that you’re not being fully honest about.

    You first attack me on my Faith, suggesting that I’m in essence, being a hypocrite. Of course, being the worldly man that you are, youre fully aware of the fact that Islam allows up to four wives for each Man; you *dont* think Game has *anything* to do with that?

    You then go on to make a number of strawman arguments on the basis of things I never actually said. I never said anything against authority or taking orders, in fact if anything me and Whiskey’s overall praise for the Corps would suggest otherwise.

    I said cosigned Whiskey’s recital of the Corps motto: Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. Is that not true, Keith?

    I recited another motto of the USMC: Every Marine A Rifleman. Is that not true, Keith?

    I said that the best Snipers in the US Military, are to be found in the Marines, precisely because of their emphasis on accuracy, precision, superior training, recruitment and equipment. Is that not true, Keith?

    Oh, and one more thing.

    While its true that I Sarge in bars and clubs, *that’s not the only place* I Sarge; and I’ve always prided myself and dealing with quality Women. In fact Keith, “Brown Sugah”, whom I’ve mentioned earlier? I didn’t meet her in a bar or club, and is one of the Women I mentioned who came out of school SCL. Like I said before, Game works even better on the quality gals than the barflies and clubhoppers. Read The Game, and see for yourself.

    What all of this comes down to for me Keith, is that you seem to have a problem with Men having choice as to whom they want to hve sex with. Last time I hard, that wasn’t a crime. Oh, and this “being geniune” business? I am far and away more honest with Women than the vast majority of AFCs out there.

    I didn’t have to lie to get in a Woman’s pants before, and I definitely don’t have to do it now.;)

    Holla back

    Salaam
    Mu

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  328. on January 5, 2009 at 11:43 am tokyojesusfist

    Mu’Min:

    You guys get into all this abstract Bullshit and in reality you aint gettin’ NO PUSSY. Zero.

    Not everyone cares about getting pussy.

    If you can’t make a Woman say “Yes!” to night with you, how in the hell you gonna make her say “Yes!” to a lifetime with you? Please explain to me the physics of that.

    Do you really assume that all relationships start out as one night stands?

    We all got only One Life to Life, Gentlemen; when its all said and done, will you be able to say that yours was a Life well Lived, well Loved, and well Fucked? Or not?

    When it’s all said and done the number of women you slept with during your life is about the most laughably meaningless thing imaginable.

    Keith:

    There ain’t no alphas in foxholes, at least not Roissy-style douchebag “alphas.”

    I still haven’t figured out when it was decided that having meaningless one night stands with women makes someone an “alpha.”

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  329. on January 5, 2009 at 11:55 am Pseudothyrum

    Joe T. makes some good points about American society being in serious decline.

    America is in decline (especially in a social and a civic sense) and many, many people are seeking release from The Pain Of It All in various ways – some ways are just healthier than others. The trick is to find the forms of catharsis which are least harmful to your mind/personality or your body and indulge in them instead of the worst ways (like overeating, becoming a TV zombie, etc).

    The main problem is the lack of sociability and social engagement amongst many people, tied mostly to the shitty living arrangements we have built here (often endless suburbs with not many social gathering places except restaurants, bars, and churches). We need more places to socially congregate. What you people here call “game” is just being socially confident, regaining the social skills which have been lost by most Americans as they’ve spent years frittering time away alone.

    “For all the talk on IQ, no one has mentioned that it was the high IQ types on Wall Street that have destroyed this country’s economy with deceptive practicies and outright theft.”

    – See: http://www.alternet.org/story/111376/

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  330. on January 5, 2009 at 12:02 pm Mu'Min

    TJF,
    In response to your points:

    1. If a Man says such a thing as you’ve said in your first point, I would tell them, to their face, that they’re a Bold Faced Liar. Men think about Pussy a lot. What matters, is whether they can actually get that which they desire.

    2. Do I think all relationships start out as One Night Stands? No, I don’t. That said, what is so wrong if one does, TJF? Is that a crime? I personally think relationships start out in a myriad of ways, and God Bless em All for that. Got no problem with it.

    3. The only ones who think as you do are those who have no other choice BUT to parrot such a line. Again, Men think about getting laid a lot. Most Men can’t act on it, because they lack the skills to do so. The End.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  331. on January 5, 2009 at 12:22 pm tokyojesusfist

    1. I have no interest whatsoever in casual sex, and if I’ll ever have a relationship it’ll be with a very carefully chosen person.

    2. You argued that if you can’t make a one night stand work then it is impossible to make a long-term relationship work, which is false.

    3. What possible meaning is there in having lots and lots of sex? It’s no more meaningful than playing World of Warcraft or collecting rocks.

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  332. on January 5, 2009 at 1:17 pm Mu'Min

    TJF,
    1. That’s great, man. Best of luck to ya.

    2. OK, prove me wrong by showing me actual results.

    3. Tell that to the guys who play WOW and collect rocks and ask them if that’s better or spermatizing a Hot Babe.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  333. on January 5, 2009 at 1:26 pm Joe T.

    Regarding “feminized culture” –

    People are really misreading American culture. We are NOT a feminized culture. We are a hypermasculine culture, that happens to coexist with an extreme, all-pervasive form of feminism.

    The masculinity or femininity of a culture does not necessarily correlate to the presence of extreme feminism.

    In classifying countries based on their “friendliness” to men, and to people in general, I would argue that you can place countries roughly in a grid, based on a “masculine vs. feminine culture” axis, and a “presence or absence of feminism” axis.

    I would agree that the Nordic countries *are* feminized cultures, and that they also harbor extreme feminism.

    Western European countries (France, Germany, Italy, Spain) are more “feminized” cultures than the USA, but actually harbor less virulent, less extreme forms of feminism than what exists in the US. (This is changing actually due to US legal influence over the EU, but it is changing *slowly* and European cultures naturally tend to be resistant to this kind of change.)

    Russia, Latin America, and the Arab world world are much more “masculine” cultures, but don’t harbor feminism. (Latin America has a very rudimentary form of feminism whose presence is very spotty.)

    The aberration is the Anglo-Saxon world, which tend to be masculine (particularly the hypermasculine USA), but which paradoxically harbor a rather radical brand of feminism (particularly the extreme feminism in the USA).

    Most of Sub-Saharan Africa is also a kind of global aberration. Their cultures tend to be more cooperative and socialistic (which denotes a “feminized” culture), but they also tend to be prone to militarism and bouts of extreme violence (which would denote a “masculinized” culture).

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  334. on January 5, 2009 at 2:41 pm tokyojesusfist

    2. What results? It’s pretty obvious that not all or even most relationships start after a one night stand. That’s just how it is.

    3. Doesn’t matter, because none of those things mean anything. Nobody is going to say “hey that’s the guy who fucked 100 sluts” after you’re dead, because nobody cares. Your life didn’t make any difference.

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  335. on January 5, 2009 at 3:09 pm Mu'Min

    TJF,
    Having known what it is to actually put dirt on my mother, father, grandmother, and other relatives and friend’s graves, I can most certainly tell you, that it matters TO ME. I don’t give a fuck if it don’t matter to anyone else, fuck em. It matters to me. I know, in spades, just how fragile this Life is. So yea, having the Love *and Sex* of a Woman or three, is nice.

    Now before you or anyone else gets ish twisted, I am in no way against Romantic Love, LTRs, Marriage, etc. I’m all for it. I’m simply saying that I for one will not apologize for seeking to expand my horizons and maximizing my options. Period.

    As for your second point above, what’s obvious is that if a Man doesn’t have the werewithall to get a Woman in the bed, his chances of going th distance with her are pretty long. Now maybe they do it a bit differently where you live, but I live in one of America’s big coastal cities, so they roll different here. That’s all I’m saying.

    Dig this TJF, because you seem like a decent, reasonable guy-I got no problem in the least with how you choose to live your life. Just don’t hate on me for choosing how I live mine.

    And we’ll be cool!

    Salaam
    Mu

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  336. on January 5, 2009 at 4:03 pm gig

    TJF is a PUA-hater. I can’t, however, say that TJF a girl or a beta.

    LikeLike


  337. on January 5, 2009 at 4:52 pm Chic Noir

    Anybody read what Charles Barkley said to the cop after his recent DUI arrest.

    SMH

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  338. on January 5, 2009 at 4:54 pm tokyojesusfist

    Mu’Min, being unable or unwilling to get a woman in bed in one night doesn’t mean you can’t have normal relationships.

    gig, there’s no reason to have the same argument in two different places.

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  339. on January 5, 2009 at 5:20 pm Jack

    Marines are beta? My impression is that many military guys get laid A LOT, which precludes them from being beta under Roissy’s definition. Sure they take orders…but everyone takes orders. Even Roissy takes orders somewhere.

    I do see what Joe T is saying about our culture combining terrible feminism with a hypermasculine attitude. But I certainly disagree with his solutions. All I can say is that we need a less activist government, providing less money to prop up counterproductive feminist bureaucracies (VAWA, women’s studies depts, No Child Left Behind, etc). We also need feminist marriage and divorce laws overhauled, and social shaming of promiscuity and unwed motherhood. Each of us can do something, though we may start small. We need to influence our friends and run for offices.

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  340. on January 5, 2009 at 5:20 pm Mu'Min

    Chic, please checkout the DC Dating Thread, I just got the “official” definition of the term Mistic from Zam. I’ll post it up in a few minutes over there.

    Thanks!

    Salaam
    Mu

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  341. on January 5, 2009 at 5:27 pm Jack

    Oh and there is a reason, Joe T, that the Dem party is completely in favor of unfettered illegal immigration. Millions of new votes. More cheap labor for elites. Feminists want these things to add to their coalition and to diulte the power of while males.

    The Rep party, I believe, has learned from nominating McCain that pandering to illegals doesn’t help. The media can cry and cry about the Reps needing to pander to Hispanics, but it’s complete bullshit. The future success for the Republicans is ONLY realized by winning higher majorities of white voters. And if they are smart, you will see them appealing for that.

    P.S. If immigration is curtailed, American women will need to start having more KIDS. And feminist shit like no-fault divorce and abortion will eventually come under attack. We will need larger and stronger families, and govt will be under pressure to support these. Worthless feminists who nonbreed themselves out of existence will then be treated as they deserve.

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  342. on January 5, 2009 at 5:27 pm Chic Noir

    John FThat wealth is taken from the most productive members of society, smart, ambitious males in their twenties to late thirties
    John F, I always been under the assumption that men in their late 40’s and 50s are the most productive, unless you’re writing about men who have physical labor jobs.

    DTWaste of time. Teach things that will enable the next generation to out produce and out compete the rest of the world, and let the rest of the world learn our language. (Granted some people need to be well versed in foreign language and culture, but the average person simply does not if we’re a global power.)
    DT, I don’t agree. We can now agree that China is a global power, yet English language schools continue to grow there. The French are no longer a major global power yet many people(non colonies) around the world continue to study French. The French have been good at branding themselves as the height of sophistication.
    I’ve noticed that a number of people here are linking feminism to globalism. I think you guys are wrong. Globalism is mainly the brainchild of large-scale corporations because it opens up new markets in which corporations can sell their products. A good example of this is the American movie industry that no longer makes 10-15 million-dollar quality movies. Instead, we’re bombarded with big explosions and special effects for the tune of 100 million.

    Another effect of this is to force almost every family to either follow the feminist ideal of both parents working Actually, feminist don’t have uniform ideals. Many younger feminist think the feminist movement was about giving women choice. Choice to work or choice to stay home*. BTW we now have many stay at home dads in this country. Some men are very good with children.
    , and neither having much time for the children,
    or accept a drastically lowered standard of living
    I cosign with you here. Unless one spouse makes a lot, the family will be cutting it close. Then again, we have many luxuries today that our grandparents didn’t have. How many of them had 2-3 cars per family? How much did they pay for 100 channel cable, which shows the same crap over and over and over again. I guess won’t discuss the second home or boat nonsense.

    It’s simply not going to be much benefit in life’s most important areas; family and love It’s nice to see men talk about family and love as if the two are something most men generally want. From talking with women, most believe that men only want… not family or love.

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  343. on January 5, 2009 at 5:27 pm Chic Noir

    okay mu

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  344. on January 5, 2009 at 5:32 pm Mu'Min

    Jack,
    Thanks, man. Neither my dad or granddad was no slouch in the Women Dept, and both were Devil Dogs, all day. My granddad was a Deacon in the Church *and had to beat the Church Ladies off with a stick* (oh, and by the way-if you *really* wanna get laid something fierce, go to Church. Seriously. There are mounds of Women there trying to work out their sexual frustrations. Black Preachers have known this like, forever.); my dad’s Gam was so vicious he could pull my mom, who was HOT in her day, off the street and marry her than a month later.

    And we all know how Women get moist for a Man in a Marine uniform, right?

    I’m just sayin’…

    Salaam
    Mu

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  345. on January 5, 2009 at 5:37 pm Chic Noir

    John F Bringing in a ton of low-educated people who’ve been in wars with completely different cultural backgrounds might not have been entirely without its downsides
    Cosign John F
    If you can’t/don’t want to integrate & assimilate them, there is no use to bringing them into your country long term.

    Mu, I love you dearly but get up off Keith’s back. I’m a Keith stan bro.
    I think what Keith was saying is that he would prefer to meet a woman who likes him for him versus making himself over for one who only likes the “fake” Keith. Some women follow the same train of thought btw.

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  346. on January 5, 2009 at 5:41 pm Sparks123

    Doesn’t matter, because none of those things mean anything. Nobody is going to say “hey that’s the guy who fucked 100 sluts” after you’re dead, because nobody cares. Your life didn’t make any difference.

    Don’t live for what people will say about you when you’re dead. You’ll be dead and you won’t be able to know. Pursue your own personal pleasure for that is all you’ll have.

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  347. on January 5, 2009 at 5:42 pm Chic Noir

    Jack
    Oh and there is a reason, Joe T, that the Dem party is completely in favor of unfettered illegal immigration. Millions of new votes. More cheap labor for elites.

    The fiscal Republicans want cheap labor too Jack. Have you seen the videos of George Bush championing immigration? BTW, I think immigration is a good thing to an extent. If we don’t have the jobs, space ,infrastructure and/or are not willing to integrate the new arrivals, then long-term, mass immigration can be problematic.

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  348. on January 5, 2009 at 5:48 pm Mu'Min

    Chic,
    W/all due respect Keith and all others who use the fake the funk “fake” argument are, well, fakin’ the funk. The idea that one must present their *worst* side in a potential relationship, otherwise you’re not being “geniune” is a bunch of bunk. We ALL present different sides of ourselves in order to get with the business of life-we do it at work, and we damn sure do in the Military. Ask anyone who’s been to Boot Camp, especially Paris Island. You WILL become a completely different person, Period.

    I ain’t doing nothing that ain’t already there *in* me to begin with, and for real, if you was paying attention to my previous posts here in the forum, I said as much. I clearly stated that I was NOT paiting my fingernails, or wearing makeup, nor was I gonna do magic tricks or carry around a Man Purse. Those things, had I done them, would have come off as “fake” because they WOULD HAVE BEEN FAKE. They wouldn’t fit who I am, what I’m about.

    Why do you think I introduced the “I Hate You” opener, experimented with Negs in slightly different way, etc? Its because I want to run Game in as natural a ay to me as possible, for one thing. Something that is unique-“eclectic” was the word QT used-to me as possible. And its true, I AM an eclectic guy. How many Brothers do you know like me, Chic? Really? And I put that question out there to anyone else reading it. I’m about as eclectic as it gets, given my life, my experiences and my interests. So, I say, emphatically, that I’m keepin’ it A LOT more real than the vast majority of dudes out there, who fake the funk as “friend” in the hopes of tappin’ dat azz, and y’all Women KNOW THIS, man!

    So piss on all that noize Keith was talkin’. As per usual, folks like that don’t know what the heck they talkin’ ’bout.

    Other than that, he seems like a pretty nice guy.:)

    Salaam
    Mu

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  349. on January 5, 2009 at 6:17 pm Chic Noir

    PATheir opinion is that travel will open Americans’ eyes to how much better other countries are
    Where did a say this?

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  350. on January 5, 2009 at 6:26 pm Chic Noir

    Pseudothyrum
    The main problem is the lack of sociability and social engagement amongst many people, tied mostly to the shitty living arrangements we have built here (often endless suburbs with not many social gathering places except restaurants, bars, and churches). We need more places to socially congregate. What you people here call “game” is just being socially confident, regaining the social skills which have been lost by most Americans as they’ve spent years frittering time away alone.
    Cosign
    I think we will have more not becasue of lack of getting laid, but because a large number of people particulary men have grown up to feel isolated and alone in the world. Listen at how people argue now, it’s not uncommon to hear younger people tell each other to ” just go kill yourself” when things get heated.

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  351. on January 5, 2009 at 6:29 pm Chic Noir

    Whiskey Both Joe T and Chic want to outlaw Christianity, but Islam gets a pass, not only is Islam dominating
    Wiskey if you can find something in one of my posts wanting to outlaw Christianity, I will kowtow to you.
    and women currently love the dominant, and more dominant and brutalizing the better, masculine forces
    Not this woman. That’s why I feel the need to step in when you guys go.

    I want to be clear — the reason Joe T and Chic are examples of feminized culture is because they repeat the fashionable talking points of celebutards, instead of problem, solution, evidence cited to back them up.
    Really, can you give me an example??? I think Americans should learn one of the gib three languages because:
    China is now a world power. As they have learned our language, it only makes sense that we learn theirs.
    How may reports did you see at the start of the Iraq war concerning the US lack of Arabic speakers? Why should the US import translators of Arabic, when we can have our own speakers who would most likely be loyal to the nation versus someone we can never be 100% about.
    We have a large number of Spanish speakers in this country as well as a large number of Spanish speaking countries to the South of this country. They aren’t going anywhere Whiskey.

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  352. on January 5, 2009 at 6:34 pm Chic Noir

    Oil goes from $27 to $145 to $33 a barrel in a few years. Big cars are a problem why? Whiskey we depend on Saudi Arabia too much for oil. As I mentioned earlier, that country has the palm of this country’s ass in it’s hand. Why you don’t have a problem with another country having such a large say in our corporations as well as the running of this country I don’t know. BTW, since Saudi Arabia owns so much of this country, this is another reason we should learn Arabic.
    <ahttp://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html
    We also depend on Nigeria for 10% of our oil.
    Do you recall the problems the surrounding oil production and profit coming out of Nigeria about a 18 months ago? The people of the middle belt kidnapping oil workers and destroying oil lines??? BTW, how long do you think oil will remain at such a low price. I’m not an expert when it comes to economics but…. I would guess that the price of oil will again rise to what it was before, and maybe even exceed the previous price because people were willing to pay for it. I don’t think the USA doesn’t have much say in OPEC anymore(?)
    Whiskey look at this list.

    The top 15 countries we receive oil from are:
    Canada-stable
    Saudi Arabia
    Mexico
    Venezuela
    Nigeria
    Iraq
    Angola
    Brazil
    Algeria
    Kuwait
    Ecuador
    Untied Kingdom -stable
    Colombia
    Azerbaijan- Muslim &When Russia attemps to reunify then what?
    Equatorial Guinea-
    Count the number of truly stable(from civic unreast & relations with the US) countries in the list Whiskey. I see two maybe three at most.

    What lasts forever Whiskey? Being to reliant on others is never a good thing.
    It’s politics as fashion. Through the Tiger Beat media.
    Not with me.
    Their proposals are stuff people just “know” because Al Gore or Sheryl Crowe said it.
    Um, Russel Crowe isn’t an American but an Australian. What he has to say about this country doesn’t matter much to me. If the Australian president worried more about his own reelection instead of Obama, maybe we would have won.
    Futhermore, Whiskey you often seem like the type who uses the “just bomb” them approach to every problem.

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  353. on January 5, 2009 at 6:47 pm Chic Noir

    MuI clearly stated that I was NOT paiting my fingernails, or wearing makeup, nor was I gonna do magic tricks or carry around a Man Purse
    LOL please don’t. Most men can’t pull this off, only a select few.
    We ALL present different sides of ourselves in order to get with the business of life-we do it at work, and we damn sure do in the Military.
    You have a point here. How many of us have said during an interview that we just love working after hours and weekends. I just think Keith(I do too) dislikes the mean spiritedness and the misogynist behavior of some PUAs. What angers me more is the fact that some women reward bad behavior. I don’t care how much of a knockout the guy is, if he does not treat me well, he can’t get in my draws.
    And I put that question out there to anyone else reading it. I’m about as eclectic as it gets, given my life, my experiences and my interests.
    We have eclectic brothers in the hood they are usually your Kayne and Pharrell types. The problem is your not allowed to truly express yourself because then you would appear unmanly or soft to the gutter snipes. Don’t forget that petty jealously is something else that people deal with when others say “you forget where you came from”. I think one of the Blk male blogger living in Asia wrote a post on this topic. Black women are given a wider brush to be eclectic; it could possibly be because we don’t pay much attention to what other think beyond a few things. *That’s the reason no one blinks an eye at Erykah or Jill Scott but when Common & Andre 300 went through their changes, all hell broke lose.

    funny enough, I’ve met some real hood boys who are very well read. They are truly the Stringer Bell(The Wire

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  354. on January 5, 2009 at 7:17 pm David Alexander

    If the Australian president

    As somebody who worshiped a Queen of Australian citizenship, I must note that Australia does not have a President, but a Queen who is represented in the Commonwealth by a Governor General and a Prime Minister.

    Black women are given a wider brush to be eclectic

    Interestingly, from my limited perspective, I’ve noted that Black women are more likely to be afro-centric than their male counterparts. Even though black women may spank their male counterparts in terms of finishing school, it seems harder to find an oreo in the female pool.

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  355. on January 5, 2009 at 7:22 pm Mu'Min

    Chic,
    Good points you make.

    First off, I *dont* think most PUAs are “misogynists”, but we can quibble about that. What I can say is that I’M NOT a misogynist, and in fact, after studying this stuff now hardcore for about a month, if anything, I have a newfound respect for Women that I *didn’t* have prior.

    I say that because a PUA has to be much, much more sensitive to Women overall than the vast majority of Men out there; they study Women in ways most Men simply are not aware of.

    Moreover, a successful Gamer *must* do that which Women both consciously, and subconsciously, WANT:

    A well dressed Man
    A confident Man
    A Man who leads (but not necessarily in a domineering way)
    A Man who is Socially Intelligent (gets along with people, good listener, good communicator)

    And so on.

    PUAs/Players, by definition, *have* to be more aware of these and other things, if they want to be successful with Women. Now again, there be some who grow disillusioned with Women as a result. I, on the other hand, respectfully disagree.

    As for Common/Pharrell/Kanye’, I think you may be onto something, because most Brothas I know DON’T listen to or are fans of these guys (Kanye’ moreso than the other two)-more Sistas go in for them more often than not.

    But I don’t consider myself in that catergory per se, although, in fairness, we all don’t see ourselves quite as well or in the same way as do others.

    As for Brothas gettin’ a hard way to go for being eclectic, don’t know what you’re talkin’ about. I’ve always received a warm reception from the Brothas for my interests, if anything I’ve turned a lot of them onto things like Astrology for example. Or reading something more than the Sports section of the newspaper.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  356. on January 5, 2009 at 7:34 pm Chic Noir

    it seems harder to find an oreo in the female pool.
    Depends on how you define Oreo. If you mean as self hating as yourself(no tease), well that’s hard to find. However, if you are talking about an appreciation of all things, Africa, Europe(partially) and part Hipster who is pretty much in step with the SWPL crowd, there are plenty of those.

    Santagold & Res would be labeled as Oreo by some but def eclectic by all according to popular stereotypes of what a Black woman is supposed to be.

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  357. on January 5, 2009 at 7:42 pm Mu'Min

    Dave Alex,
    Here in Philly there is a vibrant NeoSoul movement, out of which the “Mystic” Sistas emanates. I’ve given the definition on the DC Dating Thread, and trust me, you need to get out more; they are most definitely up in NYC, too.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  358. on January 5, 2009 at 11:41 pm hotmale.com

    Nice work.

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  359. on January 6, 2009 at 2:09 am epiclolz

    @Mu, well said on the misogynist tip. If anything… learning that much of our behavior is naturally pre-biased… allows you ‘understand’ women’s actions in a more reasonable light. So behavior that seems terrible, makes a lot more sense from the perspective that women do what they feel is best for them based partly on their biological value set. This sounds like a simplification but it truly requires the ability to realize that the value sets between genders can be completely different at times. I think most of the misogynist sounding chatter you may hear is more a reaction that some aspects of reality are much different than they would like. More like holy shit I can’t believe that actually works… For instance check this http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/04/true.love.found/index.html?iref=mpstoryview In this particular study only 10% of the couples retained the chemical drivers that usually decay from 6 months to 5 years out.. Given this as a basis of rationale, it makes sense that people who get married purely based on the euphoric attraction pleasure mechanisms are doomed to part ways if they do not build any other binding mechanisms. For me at least, the world looks a bit more sane… if you look at at least some of our behaviors through an evolutionary lens….

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  360. on January 6, 2009 at 2:18 am what

    Mu’Min, you’ve got to be kidding about the misogyny. Going by some of the boards and blogs I hang out on, PUAs are some of the most misogynistic dudes around. Not all of them are, but the subculture attracts men who don’t have success with women. They bring these continuous failures as psychological baggage into their new found pick up skills and direct some of this energy into bile-filled rants on the Internet about how much they hate women. The progression for many men is this:

    Idealistic, manipulative Beta ===> Woman-Hating, Cynic Beta ===> Beta who discovers Game ===> Realist, manipulative PUA

    The wheel of relationship for most men starts and ends at manipulation. Such is the world of sex.

    I also can’t believe a lot of the hate here for betas, considering many of the posters here were probably former ones, or at least display the same behavioral tendencies, e.g. outward displays of bad emotion and anger on the net, obsessive intellectualism towards certain areas, etc. The only real difference I see is that many of the people here (claim) to pick up women, while the strawmen betas in their heads don’t. Other than that you are all in the same boat.

    Oh, and I don’t think Keith has beef with you. Keith has beef with Roissy’s take on Game, which he has transmogrified from a method of picking up women into Game 2.0: a community of strict, hierarchal, frat boy authoritarians who on the one hand eschew the dominant left wing progressive thought in society, yet on the other hand call for an ‘Alpha revolution’ and other ubermensch-like mythology. If Game ever becomes a political movement, as some here would like it to become, it sure as shit will have shades of the Weimar era and that bit of glamorous history after that (and how AWESOME will it be when round up all the betas and put them in camps?).

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  361. on January 6, 2009 at 3:48 am sara I

    “Hi, I’m studying for the midterm and I’m having trouble with topic X. can you help me out?”. Since I was away at the time, I responded about two days later by saying “Sure. What did you have in mind?”. She never responded to my email, and the midterm is now past. I wrote nothing to her other than that one message.

    So my questions are: #1: Did I fuck up?

    NO.

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  362. on January 6, 2009 at 6:32 am Mu'Min

    What,
    I’m familiar with some of the PUA blogs, boards and the like, and will concede that at the very least, there is a tone of “misogyny” in some cases. I put it like that because that word is so abused in my view, that it threatens to lose any real meaning or impact. And I blame the Feminist Lobby for that. They remind me of Zionists who label anyone and anything “Anti-Semetic” if they even fix their mouths to question anything Israel does. It doesn’t help their cause, and only alienates potential allies, something I’ve had to learn myself. In fact, Game helped to really drive that point home.

    So, at least for me, I can say Game helped me in more ways than merely picking up chicks.

    I think you bring up another point-its all about the kind of person you start out at the beginning, that will determine what you end up doing with Game. If you already hated Women to begin with, the powerful truths you pickup w/Game will only serve as a rationale to nuture that hatred. Its the same argument as violent movies and Hip Hop music (and prior to that, Rock n Roll, etc.)-and I immersed myself, and still do to this day, in both, and NEVER did a Harris and Klebold thing. It’s all about the kind of person YOU are, that will determine things.

    As for hatin’ on Betas, and I speak only for myself here, I’m not the kind of person to spend my waking hours hatin’ on folks. The way I figure it, I’ve got enough on my plate trying to be the best Mu that Mu can be, to be all caught up on hatin’ on folks, some of whom simply cannot do any better. Game has also shown me what it means to be gracious to those less fortunate-and for those reading along who may question this as an “Alpha” trait, I kindly direct you to the film 300, and the scene where Leonidas is gracious to the Humpback Dude, right before he dies. He understood that dude simply couldn’t do any better, and didn’t curse him for it.

    I am very sympathetic to guys who simply don’t have what it takes to succeed in this way, and I do not hate or spurn or mock them in any way. There but for the Grace of God…

    What I *do* have problems with are the Dave Alex’s of the world, guys who of their own volition spend considerable amounts of time in Player venues, and who deliberately sabotouge themselves; others will go on and on about how unfair Life is. I have a bit of contempt for these guys, many of whom espouse a Conservative mindset(!), who refuse to put the fundaments of their self-professed philosophy to use: pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, taking personal responsibility for their own lives, and making changes in their lifestyle and behavior to make a difference in their lives. Suddenly these free-market/free democratic types, many of whom don’t hesistate to tell folks who look like me what *we* should be doing, suddenly sound like the very Libs they claim to despise. Forget Game, that’s just weak.

    Just some thoughts, real quick…

    Salaam
    Mu

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  363. on January 6, 2009 at 7:13 am tokyojesusfist

    Sparks123:

    Don’t live for what people will say about you when you’re dead. You’ll be dead and you won’t be able to know. Pursue your own personal pleasure for that is all you’ll have.

    Mu’Min originally said “when its all said and done, will you be able to say that yours was a Life well Lived, well Loved, and well Fucked? Or not?” implying that banging sluts is something meaningful and important.

    Mu’Min:

    The way I figure it, I’ve got enough on my plate trying to be the best Mu that Mu can be, to be all caught up on hatin’ on folks, some of whom simply cannot do any better.

    That’s ironic because I feel the same about PUAs. They just can’t do any better.

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  364. on January 6, 2009 at 9:09 am what

    Mu, that was a good post. I have nothing else to add, as I agree with you.

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  365. on January 6, 2009 at 2:57 pm Keith

    Where I stand on “game”:

    I like the question openers (who lies more, would you date somebody in a wheelchair, thin line between love and hate, etc.) that actually start a conversation that tells you how somebody thinks. They do help you get some insight into a person.

    You can also build off actual past recent experiences and interactions to create fun question openers. Heck, there’s some board game that asks those types of questions. There’s about a billion fun openers right there.

    I have no problem with light flirty negs, that aren’t really hurtful or insulting, but signal that a guy isn’t a supplicant. In addition, a man should be fearless when it comes to rejection and talk to many women, so doesn’t overly focus on one woman too early on and drive her off. Works for me.

    But beyond that, a lot of this shit gets manipulative and mentally ill. Borrowing from Tyler Durden:

    “Like, in Miami South Beach, me being a younger guy wearing a “Pimp The Clown” shirt won’t fly. Likewise, acting REALLY FUN won’t work either. That’s because its mostly model golddiggers trying to get rich mafioso. So I dress COOLER than the mafioso, by being like TURBO mafioso. Then I act COOLER than them, by taking on their mannerisms (like I outlined in that long post about A-list social scenes), but act COOLER than them. Notice the word “COOLER” all through this paragraph.. —> BE COOL!”

    If I’m the only one who finds this fucking douchey to the max, then I’m living on the wrong fucking planet.

    More Tyler:

    “What *is* genuine? If I were to be TRULY genuine with what *I* wanted to talk to girls about, I’d discuss logic and other esoteric philosophical issues. I’d discuss cars, and mechanics, and sports, and wars, and taking extreme risks and my criminal youth. I’d discuss how I’m right-wing and how I believe in certain repressive traditional values. I’d discuss John Rawls vs. Robert Nozick.. I’d discuss Heideger and Nietzche and Sartre, and subjective morality in a world without dogmatic value sources. I’d discuss Kripke and causal theory. I’d discuss flaws in symbolic notation. This stuff FASCINATES me.

    I don’t LIKE talking about social dynamics and feelings. It BORES me. *Most* things that *most* girls like to talk about are of NO INTEREST to me.

    I DO NOT ENJOY running JUGGLER’s rapport routines like “I really like pizza” and “this is what my own palm says about me” and “what would your life be rated if it was a movie?”, and making those kind of self-revealing statements. Nor would I like them any better had I invented them.

    Or rather, I LIKE running them, for the purpose of PICKING UP. But I don’t run them for the SOLE SAKE of running them.”

    Again, not only douchey, but self-defeating. Okay, you can get lots of women. But if you’re getting women with this sort of Barbara Walters crap, what kind of women will they be?

    Oh, they’ll be like this (thanks to Mr. Durden):

    “Going back to the Toecutter “marry-me” routine, what have I learned?

    Toecutter explained that women WILLFULLY IGNORE the truth, in order to preserve the feelings that they are deriving from the massive drama that you provide.

    This is also from MANIAC_HIGH, so if you disagree then maybe check out the new maniac plan for more detailed explication.

    Anyway, Toecutter states that the girls who were “duped” by the marriage trick were in fact WELL-AWARE that it was clearly bullshit, but that they WANTED to go along with it, so that they could experience the ADVENTURE.

    The same goes for Mystery ‘s girlfriend of 5 years, who STILL BELIEVES that he genuinely has MAGIC POWER, including an ability to levitate himself from the ground, move objects with his mind, and read thoughts telepathically.”

    Okay, so you get women who are not reality-based, who kid themselves to have a good time in the here and now, while racing towards some wall of eventual disillusionment and despair. Hoo-fucking-ray.

    In addition, for someone who claims to be so smart, Mr. Durden (and the guys on this board) really don’t understand the concept of unobservables that bias your empirical results. Whenever you have sample selection issues, what you see DOES fool you.

    Even the best PUA will actually have sex with a tiny minority of the women he opens with. As he goes through his routine, especially the sappier parts (the “C” part where you reveal some bullshit vulnerability like “I don’t floss”), only the lamest most self-deceptive women will stick through it. Consequently, they only see the most self-deceptive women. They suffer sample bias.

    And of course, that only feeds this ridiculous image of all women they have.

    Oh, here’s some awesome douchiness from Mr. Durden, doing the Boyfriend Destroyer routine:

    “What you’re looking to do here is tear the guy down to a NICE GUY, while making it look like you’re actually STICKING UP FOR HIM! Your goal is to make him one of those guys that a girl would go out on a date with, like as a person, and feel bad for having to LJBF at the end of the night when he tries to kiss her at the door.”

    Oh, God, you gotta see the douchiness here, from ol’ Tyler:

    “You have to understand that this guy really appreciates you, because you’re probably the best girl that he ever got, or ever will get. I know that…you care about this guy (maybe sp)… but there’s just a certain equilibrium where if you’ve done this guy a favour by being with him and he’s not equipped to handle it, since he knows that he’ll never get a girl like you again if he walks out, that he’s just constantly frustrated and panicked that you’ll leave. It’s not his fault.”

    “You’ve got to understand that for this guy you are his entire world. He cares about you so much, that everything else in the world is meaningless to him. You are his only source of pleasure, and without you he knows that…he’s nothing. You can’t blame him, he just doesn’t have anything else going for him, so he needs you.”

    “It’s not that this guy doesn’t love you. He does. Its just that deep down he has a fear that… you’re too good for him… and that you’ll realize it and be like, you know….you just have to dump this guy…. and then he’ll be left emotionally destroyed because he made himself vulnerable. Yes yes I know that you wouldn’t do that to him, but its just that with (x,y,z into consideration – bring up imbalance struck earlier in the convo) he knows that you could get other guys (SP)…like me…I just think that he’s not an emotionally secure person, and you’ve gotta cut him some slack.”

    Really, I’ve got an airtight case here.

    By the way, perhaps we’ve noticed how Roissy doesn’t spend too much time discussing these latter parts of his little “kill chain”? That’s because they’re so visibly douchey and lame and downright unmanly that it would destroy the image he’s trying to build.

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  366. on January 6, 2009 at 3:27 pm Keith

    Now, I conduct the following thought experiment:

    We have 4 men.

    1. A Marine who is willing to go fight for his country. He scores a lot because he’s a Marine and he’s also extroverted and has symmetric features, and women like that.
    2. A Marine who is willing to fight and die for his country, but who is shy, with more traditional attitudes towards women, not good looking, etc., so he doesn’t score.
    3. David Alexander
    4. Tyler Durden, who scores a ton of gorgeous women using the kind of things I’ve described above.

    Now, rank them in value.

    My ranking

    Marines 1 and 2 are tied for first. Alexander comes in next. Tyler is last.

    Feel free to provide your own ranking. Reveal your moral ordering.

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  367. on January 6, 2009 at 3:35 pm Keith

    Oh, and just to keep it interesting: Our first Marine does well with the ladies, but he doesn’t score the notch count or quality that Tyler does.

    That doesn’t change my ranking. Does it change yours?

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  368. on January 6, 2009 at 3:58 pm Thursday

    Keith:

    Does anyone doubt that there are douchey, unethical ways to run game? If not, what is your point?

    BTW that doesn’t mean that you don’t need game to get almost all attractive women, good, bad, and in-between.

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  369. on January 6, 2009 at 4:05 pm Keith

    “Does anyone doubt that there are douchey, unethical ways to run game? If not, what is your point?”

    First, yes, there are clearly people here who don’t doubt that, and justify it with what amounts to “the bitches all have it coming to them.”

    And so my point to you is: Rank the guys in my thought experiment. Reveal your ordering, and why. My hypothesis: You will not rank Tyler first. But even if you do, at least you tell me who you are.

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  370. on January 6, 2009 at 4:15 pm Seeking Alpha

    Keith, you know the expression, guns don’t kill people, people kill people?

    Game doesn’t make you an asshole… being an asshole makes you an asshole. There are plenty of married guys on this board who use a little game to spice things up and increase the subconscious attraction their wives have (and it works, no matter what kind of girl it is) but are otherwise honorable men.

    A lot of what your Marine #1 does is the same shit that game teaches, except he does it subconsciously. Are you saying that he is moral because he does it by accident but if he knew what he was doing he would become immoral?

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  371. on January 6, 2009 at 5:05 pm Keith

    Seeking, I would greatly appreciate your ranking.

    If Marine Number 2 or David Alexander learn game, hey, great. That doesn’t change my ranking of them.

    But really, please provide ranking. What do you truly believe is the measure of a man?

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  372. on January 6, 2009 at 5:11 pm Seeking Alpha

    Obviously 1, 2, 3, 4. It’s a stupid test, using such extremes. It doesn’t make a difference.

    We both agree that around the periphery, the basics of game can be very helpful, no matter what type of man you are. I’m sure everyone here also agrees that if they met Tyler Durden, he’d be douchey. I’m sure he probably finds himself douchey. Who cares? He has a goal (fuck lots of good looking girls) and he’s found a way to accomplish it. For others who share his goal, he offers a solution. If you don’t share his goal, ignore him. Why bitch about him for ten pages?

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  373. on January 6, 2009 at 5:29 pm Chic Noir

    @Seeking Alpha-I wonder if you would feel the same way he Tyler was turning your woman against you. From what I’ve read about him here, he seems like the type who would sleep with your woman, or at least try, and when confronted yell, “bros before hoes”. SMH, what a load of crap. Please Please Please don’t form any type of close relationship with such a guy who you may allow around your female relatives or SO, just don’t.

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  374. on January 6, 2009 at 5:34 pm Seeking Alpha

    That’s a fair point. Logically at least (and who is logical in a situation like this) I wouldn’t be pissed at him though, I’d be pissed at the person I’m in a relationship with. But you’re definitely right that if you’re in a relationship, you’d be dumb to be friends with someone like that.

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  375. on January 6, 2009 at 5:40 pm Keith

    First you say: “Obviously 1, 2, 3, 4.”

    Then you say:

    “He has a goal (fuck lots of good looking girls) and he’s found a way to accomplish it. For others who share his goal, he offers a solution.”

    By your own ranking, you don’t like the way Tyler achieves his goal, and that moves him below David Alexander in your own ranking.

    “If you don’t share his goal, ignore him. Why bitch about him for ten pages”

    I have no objection to his goal. Your own ranking says you don’t like his methods, or at least the fact he ranks his goal so highly that he behaves in an unethical manner.

    And yet you act so much more offended by my ripping on Tyler (or Roissy, whose own moral system would put Tyler first), than when people rip on David Alexander. In all fairness, Alexander deliberately invites it. But your behavior violates your own explicit moral ranking.

    This isn’t a slam on you. We all do that, and I do it all the time. You’ve been very gracious in providing the ranking.

    Roissy and I actually agree on one thing: Our deep animal instincts lead us away from our stated moral rankings.

    Roissy and I disagree violently on what comes next. He rejects the moral rankings, and I advocate occasional examination and comparison of our behavior, so that we behave more in accordance with our moral beliefs, while recognizing our animal selves and instincts.

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  376. on January 6, 2009 at 5:45 pm Tupac Chopra

    SA:

    If you don’t share his goal, ignore him. Why bitch about him for ten pages?

    Must be that time of the month again for Keith.

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  377. on January 6, 2009 at 5:50 pm Keith

    Tupac, your homoerotic wish that I was a woman is almost flattering.

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  378. on January 6, 2009 at 5:52 pm Chic Noir

    Seeking Alpha
    That’s a fair point. Logically at least (and who is logical in a situation like this) I wouldn’t be pissed at him though, I’d be pissed at the person I’m in a relationship with. But you’re definitely right that if you’re in a relationship, you’d be dumb to be friends with someone like that.

    <a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKSLVC2E-LY
    Yea, I would be more upset with the person I’m in a relationship with as well because that person took risks my life. At the same time, I would be hot as hell that my friend took advantage of my trust. Having a friend sleep with my boyfriend or girlfriend would probably make it difficult for me to trust anyone.

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  379. on January 6, 2009 at 5:53 pm Keith

    “But you’re definitely right that if you’re in a relationship, you’d be dumb to be friends with someone like that.”

    Really, it’d be dumb to be in a relationship with a woman who couldn’t see through that.

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  380. on January 6, 2009 at 5:53 pm Seeking Alpha

    I would hardly call it offended. I’m not even sure what to call it really. But then again, blog comment sections are a land of little sense (even in a rationality obsessed place like this).

    The difference between DA and TD is tough though. I have more respect for TD for wanting something and going for it than I do for DA for wanting something but making no effort to go for it.

    Whether that crosses morality is difficult to say. I certainly wouldn’t assign any positive morality to DA. The question is whether there is an immorality in his position.

    It actually bears a resemblance to the current conflict in Gaza. Do you side with the pathetic victim who moans but does nothing to help himself, or with the aggressor who has honorable goals but questionable motives.

    Being a Wall Street Jew (as opposed to an Upper West Side, anti-Israel Jew), there’s no question where I come down in that conflict.

    Anyway, thought that might make an interesting parallel.

    And as a post-script, there is not a single less violent way to disagree than over blog comments.

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  381. on January 6, 2009 at 5:56 pm Sparks123

    Keith,

    I agree with your top two but Tyler Durden has more value than David Alexander. DA is reasonably intelligent, but refuses to apply himself at all. He thinks that he should just be able to “be himself,” not improve himself in any way and still get a girl. He expects the things he has not earned and that puts him at the bottom of this moral list. It’s not like DA wouldn’t fuck a much of sluts if given the chance, (he think women should dress like pornstars in everyday situations) he’s just too lazy too actually achieve his dreams.

    Tyler Durden was able to achieve his goals through hard work and determination. Any one who does what he did has my respect.

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  382. on January 6, 2009 at 6:10 pm roissy

    betaboy:
    My ranking

    Marines 1 and 2 are tied for first. Alexander comes in next. Tyler is last.

    TD after DA? you’ve discredited yourself. is it any surprise your allies here are members in good standing of the loser brigade?

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  383. on January 6, 2009 at 6:11 pm Anonymous

    Sparks, thanks for your honesty.

    The consensus we have so far: We clearly measure men by quite a lot more than their notch count. In fact, the notch count receives a small weight relative to certain kinds of courage. We could draw a lot more out about what we really believe with more scenarios and rankings.

    The disagreement comes in the area of what we think is ethical. Sparks definitely believes that since TD violates nobody’s rights and gets what he wants, that puts him above DA.

    I think that there are right and wrong ways to go about how we get what we want from the opposite sex. These right and wrongs go beyond what’s legally enforceable, and violating them earns my moral censure, even if I don’t want to jail somebody over it or get the guv’mint involved.

    I also have logical problems with inferring too much about women as a whole based on the women that somebody has bedded through douchey and manipulative methods.

    But as the saying goes, “All’s fair in love and war.” The programmed need to pass our genes creates desires that often override all else.

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  384. on January 6, 2009 at 6:12 pm Mu'Min

    Real quick:
    I’ve never met the man, but from what I’ve read about him, largely in The Game, I don’t like Tyler Durden. Like Sparks, I give the man much dap for his achievements, and he does indeed have some good, great even, insights into Game (and just for the record, I’ve been studying and experimenting more with “Subcommunication”, something that Durden’s credited with having brought into focus). But I can’t see aligning my self with such a person, personally and professionally. I feel the same way about Tyler Durden that I feel about Dick Morris-like I’ve just come out of an icky Viper Pit.

    I think it is very, very important not to paint the entire Seduction Community with too broad a brush. Obviously there is no way in hell that I or anyone else can even fix their mouth to speak for everyone, so I’ll only speak for myself.

    In no way do I wish to coerce, or cojole, any Woman into doing something she does not want to do already. I go to great lengths not to abuse things, and am upfront with my intentions, managing expectations of the Women in question.

    As has already been mentioned before, Game, its import and impact, is heavily dependent on its user. In the right hands it can be used to grant a Man-and Woman- a very blissful relationship. In the wrong hands however, you get dudes like Durden.

    Gotta bounce. More later.

    Oh, and my ranking? Simple. The Devil Dogs get top slot, Dave Alex next, and Durden last. DA may be a lazy SOB, but insofar as I’m aware, he’s not screwing anyone up or taking anyone down with him. Just based on what I’ve read in The Game alone, Durden’s bad for business.

    Just my two cents.

    Salaam
    Mu

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  385. on January 6, 2009 at 6:14 pm Chic Noir

    is it any surprise your allies here are members in good standing of the loser brigade?

    Not a loser.

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  386. on January 6, 2009 at 6:17 pm Keith

    Roissy, your own ethical system would put TD ahead of both Marines. So you win any race to the bottom.

    So this is where you call me a vagina or claim that I’m an ex based on some completely unbelievable theory about proxy servers.

    But you’re nearing 50, so maybe you have something more creative in your old age.

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  387. on January 6, 2009 at 6:25 pm tokyojesusfist

    Mu’Min, I don’t see how manipulation and a calculating attitude can lead to a blissful relationship. Surely a good relationship has to be honest and genuine.

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  388. on January 6, 2009 at 6:34 pm Tupac Chopra

    Keith’s little brother:

    Mu’Min, I don’t see how manipulation and a calculating attitude can lead to a blissful relationship. Surely a good relationship has to be honest and genuine.

    You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight, son.

    Oh! You take issue with the notion of relationship dynamics being something other than purely rational, above board negotiations?

    Then take it up with your maker — not us.

    Or move to another planet and find another species.

    Or create a loving relationship with your right hand. Maybe that, along with your smug self-satisfied idealism will keep you warm at night.

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  389. on January 6, 2009 at 6:35 pm roissy

    chiclet:
    Not a loser.

    you are stupid and a liar, two loser traits.
    plus, you have swallowed the equalist koolaid whole, which is the leading ideology of losers and their enablers everywhere.
    for example: tell me, chiclet, what percentage of babies born to black couples are white?
    btw, albino kids don’t count towards the number because their skin color is caused by a recessive gene that is non-racial in nature.
    this should be good for a laugh…

    betaboy:
    Roissy, your own ethical system would put TD ahead of both Marines.

    you seem confused. i don’t subscribe to any ethical system of the sort that would give you a boner to measure against the prevailing norms. i simply record reality as it is, and my unflinching look at the way the world actually works demonstrates quite clearly that the hallmark of alpha males is the number of women who want to fuck them. whether the alphas in question act on their options is irrelevant to their status.

    as for the marines in your example, the #1 marine who does well with women and has been a natural his whole life would rank first on my scale, while TD would come in second. DA would take up the rear (fitting) because he is in most respects a complete loser with a loser mentality.

    now this is different than ranking them in terms of who would be best for fighting our country’s enemies, in which case both marines in your example would top my ranking. but in the dick eat dick world of the sexual market where meta life and death decisions are made, the #2 marine would not stack up to TD’s superior ability to attract female attention.
    you may think he’s douchey but that doesn’t change the fact that a greater than average number of women want to fuck him.
    iow, you gotta problem with the current configuration, take it up with your DNA overlords.

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  390. on January 6, 2009 at 6:47 pm chic noir

    you are stupid and a liar, two loser traits.
    if you say so roissy. I don’t care to argue with you anymore.

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  391. on January 6, 2009 at 6:59 pm roissy

    chiclet:
    if you say so roissy.

    the facts say so.

    I don’t care to argue with you anymore.

    and yet, here you are, arguing.

    ps i noticed you avoided answering my little question. whatsa matter, liar, can’t handle getting called out?

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  392. on January 6, 2009 at 7:03 pm Sparks123

    The disagreement comes in the area of what we think is ethical. Sparks definitely believes that since TD violates nobody’s rights and gets what he wants, that puts him above DA.

    I think that there are right and wrong ways to go about how we get what we want from the opposite sex. These right and wrongs go beyond what’s legally enforceable, and violating them earns my moral censure, even if I don’t want to jail somebody over it or get the guv’mint involved.

    Very true. This is why I admire guys like Mystery and think guys like Paul Janka, who tells guys to get their dates drunk, are scum.

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  393. on January 6, 2009 at 7:04 pm David Alexander

    DA for wanting something but making no effort to go for it.

    There are plenty of things that people want, but make no concerted overt effort to aim for it for various reasons.

    He thinks that he should just be able to “be himself,” not improve himself in any way and still get a girl.

    I’ve stated that since I’m rather content with myself, it would be nice to be able to attract women, but I’m realistic and honest enough to know that women are attracted to alpha males, and thus, would have no interest in men like myself. Otherwise, I’m not expecting women to come to me when they obviously have better choices, and higher standards.

    As noted, I’d suspect that David would probably be a bit more outgoing and more willing to ask out women if he had a career and some income. So, hopefully, David will finish school in about three years, and he’ll find a nice white collar job to boost his ego and allow him to feel like a somebody, and then maybe then he’ll feel confident enough to take the first fledgling beta steps at asking women out on dates. While he’s aware of stories of men who get women with even lower status, David’s self-esteem is shot from his low status, and needs to fix that first before he can even get involved with a woman.

    It’s not like DA wouldn’t fuck a much of sluts if given the chance, (he think women should dress like pornstars in everyday situations

    Yes, the hyper-madonna/whore complex within David Alexander. The bizzare theory where if one doesn’t look like a pornstar, you’re not interested in (or willing to have) sex combined with a need for blatantly sexual figures to create sexual attraction for David.

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  394. on January 6, 2009 at 7:09 pm tokyojesusfist

    Tupac Chopra:

    You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight, son.

    Oh! You take issue with the notion of relationship dynamics being something other than purely rational, above board negotiations?

    Then take it up with your maker – not us.

    Or move to another planet and find another species.

    Or create a loving relationship with your right hand. Maybe that, along with your smug self-satisfied idealism will keep you warm at night.

    Nowhere in this post did you say anything of substance or merit. If you don’t have a response, don’t say anything.

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  395. on January 6, 2009 at 7:43 pm Mu'Min

    TJF,
    Listen man, dig this…

    I think it is fair to say, that I have tried, very hard, to engage you in a respectful, informed discussion, on the relative merits or the lack there of, concerning Game, etc. I do this because, no matter one’s personal position on Game, Sex/Relationships, are a profoundly important part of all our lives, and doesn’t get anywhere near the attention they/it deserves in/from the wider Society.

    So, this is why I thought to attempt a reasoned, good faith dialogue, TJF.

    However, based on our interaction over the past 24 hours or so, its clear to me that further communication is likely to prove counterproductive. It is apparent to me that you have a fairly firmly rooted position on Game, and is not likely to change, regardless of whatever evidence is presented. And, to be sure, you have every right to your point of view, no matter how well informed, or how woefully ignorant, that view is.

    I respect your right to voice your opinion, I defend it. I also hope you’ll respect my right to cease and desist further communication with you. I choose to devote my time and effort elsewhere.

    I wish you well, in whatever, or whomever, you deem fit to get involved with.

    Salaam
    Mu’Min

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  396. on January 6, 2009 at 8:16 pm epiclolz

    I am a bit shocked to see that people find it hard that people are multidimensional… and that even guys and girls know who apparently have their shit together…. still behave in ways that you would associate with ‘lesser people.’ I don’t know about anyone else, but it has been my experience that some of the smartest, kind, intelligent, and not to mention attractive women I know… have all fallen under the spell a casanova at some point. Does that make them ‘cheap whores’? of course not… because… in reality everyone is multidimensional… and you cannot describe people by small snippets of behavior. For those of you who have a hard time buying this… it would be a useful experiment to find those ladies who you think are perfect and surely would not fall for this silly business… and seriously ask them if they’ve reacted positively to this sort of behavior in the past. You may find your results interesting if they are honest. Some won’t for sure… but more may say yes than you’d think.

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  397. on January 6, 2009 at 9:39 pm Keith

    “you seem confused. i don’t subscribe to any ethical system of the sort that would give you a boner to measure against the prevailing norms. ”

    You’re just evading the implications of your own past words. Hell, I don’t blame you for that, since the implications are so ugly.

    “i simply record reality as it is, and my unflinching look at the way the world actually works demonstrates quite clearly that the hallmark of alpha males is the number of women who want to fuck them.”

    You record a very narrow slice of “reality,” decide that slice is the whole magillah, and then raise it to a universal standard on which we should judge people’s worth. You do it constantly. You make that the standard on which you judge people, period.

    You assert there is no more important means of judging a man’s worth other than how many women want to fuck him.

    Under your approach, Kim Jong-Il beats your dearly departed granddad.

    “as for the marines in your example, the #1 marine who does well with women and has been a natural his whole life would rank first on my scale, while TD would come in second. ”

    But TD has reached a point where he is now more desirable to more and hotter women, so why are you putting Marine 1 ahead of him? Do you have some special bonus for naturals over those who master game? You’re just really having a hard time putting TD ahead of both war heroes, because it offends your innate moral sense.

    But you at least have the semi-honesty to put TD ahead of Marine 2. You get some honesty points for coming out and saying that you believe TD has more worth than a heroic marine who doesn’t score a lot of chicks. You’re staying somewhat true to your utterly fucked up worldview.

    “now this is different than ranking them in terms of who would be best for fighting our country’s enemies”

    Yes, and I also rank these traits as positives, whereas I rank some types of douchiness that manipulate dumb skanks as negatives. Here, you just play dumb, trying to pretend that your pretty little head just can’t possibly figure out how to weight these two different dimensions.

    “you may think he’s douchey but that doesn’t change the fact that a greater than average number of women want to fuck him.”

    This betrays your weighting, which treats the fact that a greater than average number of women want to fuck him as the dispositive fact. I can just as easily say “a greater than average number of women want to fuck him, but he’s still a creepy-ass manipulative douchebag.” Hell, I can just say “He’s just a creepy-ass manipulative douchebag”and even more accurately spell out my weighting.

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  398. on January 6, 2009 at 10:03 pm roissy

    beta:
    You’re just evading the implications of your own past words.

    and those are?

    You record a very narrow slice of “reality,”

    your premise is false. the sexual market is not a narrow slice of reality. it is the latticework of the entire human cosmos.

    You assert there is no more important means of judging a man’s worth other than how many women want to fuck him.

    alpha and beta refer to a person’s standing in the sexual market. that an old man who has zero sexual market value can still contribute something to humanity by, say, volunteering at the local soup kitchen, says nothing about his worth to women as a sexual being.
    and unfortunately for your narrative, the sexual market is the most important one of all. it’s written in our genes.

    But TD has reached a point where he is now more desirable to more and hotter women, so why are you putting Marine 1 ahead of him?

    i’m assuming by how you described your examples that marine #1 has no trouble picking up women, which would put him in a class with the putative PUA TD. since marine #1 has had more years as a natural scoring chicks, he gets the edge over TD who arrived at womanizing relatively later in life.

    You get some honesty points for coming out and saying that you believe TD has more worth than a heroic marine who doesn’t score a lot of chicks.

    learn to read. i wrote that TD would have more worth in the sexual market than marine #2. this doesn’t mean i would stack up TD with #2 when assessing their worth on the battlefield.

    whereas I rank some types of douchiness that manipulate dumb skanks as negatives.

    more false premises. quality women “fall for” game as much as skanks do. you’d know this if you spent a day in the field.

    Hell, I can just say “He’s just a creepy-ass manipulative douchebag”and even more accurately spell out my weighting.

    i’m sure your opinion of TD is causing him countless nights of restless sleep.

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  399. on January 6, 2009 at 10:33 pm Keith

    “and unfortunately for your narrative, the sexual market is the most important one of all. it’s written in our genes.”

    And we develop morality precisely for the purpose of incorporating socially useful traits, those beyond chimpy stuff, into people’s sexual market value. Those things you dismiss as “pretty lies” are what makes us fully human.

    “i wrote that TD would have more worth in the sexual market than marine #2. this doesn’t mean i would stack up TD with #2 when assessing their worth on the battlefield.”

    And you still evade like a little bitch. Is it really too hard for you to compare and weight the these different underlying traits and say who you find more worthy on a single scale? You choose now to play dumb?

    You’re trapped, and you just can’t come out and say it.

    “quality women “fall for” game as much as skanks do.”

    Then, depending on the type of game, the women aren’t quality. I require a certain degree of rationality in women, a degree of which makes them see through TD’s lame game.

    “i’m sure your opinion of TD is causing him countless nights of restless sleep.”

    Like I give a fuck about TD’s sleep patterns.

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  400. on January 6, 2009 at 10:51 pm Keith

    From Seeking Alpha: “Obviously 1, 2, 3, 4. It’s a stupid test, using such extremes. It doesn’t make a difference.”

    So seeking alpha found it ridiculously easy to order these guys according to a single measure of value, by implicitly weighting their different traits and skills in different dimensions. It was so fucking easy and obvious to him.

    But poor Roissy’s just fucking flummoxed.

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  401. on January 6, 2009 at 11:33 pm Steve Johnson

    Keith,

    You asked a foolish question.

    How would you rank these 4? Who cares how you or I would rank these 4? You going to give out cash prizes for winning the Keith Morality contest? Since you’re not, what are you prepared to do? Bake cookies for the winner?

    In reality the only judgments that matter are those that have consequences. Tyler Durden talks to some chick in a bar and she comes to a judgment: she wants to fuck him. Marine #1, same thing. Marine #2, no. David Alexander, nope.

    Guess what, if you want pussy (and every guy does) the only judgments that matter are those that hot women hand out.

    Do you live your life for the approval of random assholes writing anonymously on the internet? Does it make you feel warm and fuzzy inside to be righteous about how game is evil? Does this make you think you’re a better person?

    Maybe some day you’ll realize you were played for a chump and all that approval you were getting isn’t real and that women hand out real approval with that thing between their legs.

    LikeLike


  402. on January 7, 2009 at 12:04 am Keith

    “You asked a foolish question.”

    No, it revealed people’s moral weightings. That’s the purpose.

    And people seemed to have a pretty easy time answering it.

    Only Roissy, and now you, desperately trying to ride to the fair maiden Roissy’s resuce, have a hard time answering the question.

    “Who cares how you or I would rank these 4?”

    I do. I make judgments. These rankings allow me to clairfy my priorities and make the best judgments possible, allowing me to live the best life possible. I also judge people on their willingness to express those judgments and their judgments themselves.

    Hint: So far, you suck at this.

    “In reality the only judgments that matter are those that have consequences. ”

    Ideas have consequences.

    “Guess what, if you want pussy (and every guy does) the only judgments that matter are those that hot women hand out.”

    But I want so much more than mere pussy. And I don’t play a bullshit pretend game of independence to impress women. I’m simply independent, in that I develop and judge myself against measures that don’t have anything to do with pussy.

    “Do you live your life for the approval of random assholes writing anonymously on the internet? ”

    Since I don’t live my life for Roissy’s approval, then obviously not.

    “Maybe some day you’ll realize you were played for a chump and all that approval you were getting isn’t real ”

    My own satisfaction in my life well-lived is real. As is the loyalty of those close to me, who know why and how they can count on me. I weed out the fakes and the losers and the skanks. And I have fulfilling relationships with, yep, incredible sex.

    So my question to you: If I’m happy now and in the future, does that disprove what you say?

    “women hand out real approval with that thing between their legs.”

    And there’s so much more to me than my desire, that I don’t need that approval from women I don’t admire. I achieve actual, no-shit happiness.

    Oh, and Roissy’s still a weak little shit for not doing a single ranking.

    LikeLike


  403. on January 7, 2009 at 12:15 am Keith

    Steve, since you clearly state your value system: “Guess what, if you want pussy (and every guy does) the only judgments that matter are those that hot women hand out.”

    According to you, pussy is the sole relevant value system.

    The four guys clearly have different track records with pussy.

    So fucking rank them. Why is this so hard for you?

    LikeLike


  404. on January 7, 2009 at 12:37 am what

    Keith, I think you can safely ignore people like Steve Johnson (and a few other commentators, e.g. PA), as they are part of the prolific commentators on the Steve Sailer-Moldbug-Quantblog (GNXP, halfsigma etc.) triumvirate. I just did a google search on the various blogs in that area with their names; there are hundreds of comments (though Johnson doesn’t comment on Sailer’s blog).

    You gotta wonder how self-professed PUAs spend so much time on the net arguing random bullshit with people, yet also claim to be out in the world being an ‘Alpha’. One of these worldviews is not like the other.

    LikeLike


  405. on January 7, 2009 at 12:38 am Tupac Chopra

    Keith:

    So fucking rank them. Why is this so hard for you?

    I’ll play.

    Alpha Marine gets top spot, obviously.

    DA gets last place because he is a self-admitted failure as a man on many indices.

    Beta Marine and TD tie for the middle spot. Why? Because they are the Yin to each other’s Yang.

    It’s a bit slippery to talk of “value” in the global sense you are using. There are many things that go into making a man. Some are relatively minor, but for the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that being strong/courageous like the Marine is a major component. I’d argue that the ability to meet/seduce/date/fuck women is just as major. It seems pretty fundamental to this world we live in, what with reproduction being the biological imperative and all. Furthermore, the qualities required for being successful with women have a strong overlap with social skills in general — the type of skills that matter in all aspects of life.

    So to ask me, “Who has more value: Beta Marine or Tyler Durden?” is like asking, “Who has more value: the guy missing his right arm, or the guy missing his left?”

    LikeLike


  406. on January 7, 2009 at 1:10 am Steve Johnson

    Keith:

    “So fucking rank them. Why is this so hard for you?”

    You miss the point. I may rank these guys (in order of what? who I’d rather be friends with? who i’d rather have babysit my kids?) but who cares what my opinion of these guys is?

    You have some ranking of these 4 in mind but what are you going to do with it? Giving anything to #1? Gonna find #4 and hand out a wedgie?

    Women judge these guys and rank them TD / Marine #1 tie, DA / Marine #2 tie.

    If I were building a society (I’m not) I’d try to set up the rules so that the benefits went to men like two marines. Tyler Durden, if the rules were different would probably be immensely valuable to society. People who have the intelligence to figure out how things work and the persistence and will power to change themselves to take adavantage of that are likely to be able to figure out the rules to any social system. If the system is set up well (ours isn’t) he’ll be most rewarded by being the most valuable.

    That’s what you’re missing. Our culture sucks and heaps rewards on socially destructive behaviors but it is what it is and taking your ball and going home isn’t going to change that.

    what-

    I’m flattered that you care.

    LikeLike


  407. on January 7, 2009 at 1:34 am Chris

    Keith, if you can’t believe that game has some impact on what you consider “quality” women, look at the seventh comment (by Jim Glass) here:

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/01/female_protecti.html

    The context here is belief in protectionism rather than pickup, but the hardwired irrationality in a woman who’s clearly rather smart is all too clear.

    (This isn’t to say that women suck and men don’t have their own hardwired irrationalities; but the wiring tends to be different in predictable ways.)

    LikeLike


  408. on January 7, 2009 at 8:59 am johnny five

    keith:
    if your statements are not complete bullshit, then you are either devastatingly tall and good-looking, or are an unthinking natural à la bill clinton, or, more likely, both.
    or, alternatively, you are one of those men who is blessed to have relatively low standards for physical attractiveness in a girl. believe me, i’m not saying this is a bad thing, as it certainly makes happiness easier to achieve. my own brother is that way: he’s tall, good-looking, and not terribly lacking in the venusian skills, but he found (what he describes as) true happiness with a smart, articulate woman who also happens to be a completely non-feminine 5 (5.5, i suppose, if your scale starts at 1 rather than 0).
    it’s a well-known tenet of pua’s (and of individuals with more than 1 iota of common sense) that hot girls live on hot-girl-planet, with little to no understanding of the machinations of non-hot girls’ social lives and relationships. the less well-known flipside of this fact, though, is that the aforementioned naturals also live on their own planet, which is similarly detached from the realities of “normal” males’ lives. in fact, probably more so, as males don’t gossip, commiserate, and obsess over every minutia of their social lives as do women.
    if you happen to live on that planet, then “be genuine” is good advice. if you don’t, then it’s akin to telling a boxer with his shoulders up to his ears to keep punching that way. or, if you prefer, akin to trying to dish MPM’s fashion and vacation advice to a prole who makes $30k a year.

    Game can get you pussy, but not pussy that loves you long-term.

    keith, you appear to believe that “game” is just pickup. that’s like believing that “basketball” consists of nothing more than shooting free throws.
    we really need some ground rules as to the meaning of “game” on this site. roi-SSY! sir!
    that post should pre-empt all the others at the top of the page.

    LikeLike


  409. on January 7, 2009 at 9:00 am johnny five

    i’m more than a lil late to this particular party, but i’m floored that this one got through the noise filter unchecked:

    – eliminate *all* organized sports teams in elementary and secondary schools (but strengthen physical education programs)

    fuck this, joe. this sort of tripe can only be one thing: the sour grapes of a failed athlete, or, worse, a boy who was too chicken-shit to take up sports, and who was pushed around by the “jocks” in his school.

    ALL boys should be REQUIRED to play one team sport and one individual sport during the school years.
    REQUIRED.

    properly competitive team sports foster teamwork, mutual sacrifice, respect, humility, discipline, and, perhaps most importantly, the ability to isolate and objectify differences between individuals and put those differences to good use.

    properly coached individual sports foster self-reliance, stick-to-it-iveness, discipline, and responsibility.

    —

    are youth sports a utopia?
    no.

    will ugly realities of human nature sometimes come to the forefront in youth sports, and will the bad guys sometimes triumph?
    certainly. it would be foolish to expect perfection.

    would killing organized sports be one of the biggest nails in the coffin of american masculinity?
    YES.

    —

    also, chic, russell crowe != sheryl crow, although i’m not sure who’s the better singer.

    LikeLike


  410. on January 7, 2009 at 9:55 am Anonymous

    “ALL boys should be REQUIRED to play one team sport and one individual sport during the school years.
    REQUIRED.

    “properly competitive team sports foster teamwork, mutual sacrifice, respect, humility, discipline, and, perhaps most importantly, the ability to isolate and objectify differences between individuals and put those differences to good use.

    “properly coached individual sports foster self-reliance, stick-to-it-iveness, discipline, and responsibility.”

    This should be required for girls, as well, for all the same reasons.

    LikeLike


  411. on January 7, 2009 at 6:34 pm Steve Johnson

    anon-

    ““properly coached individual sports foster self-reliance, stick-to-it-iveness, discipline, and responsibility.”

    This should be required for girls, as well, for all the same reasons.”

    No.

    Girls are not boys. Things that are necessary for boys to develop into healthy men are not necessary for girls and may be detrimental.

    Fun fact. Girls who play soccer suffer the same rates of concussions as boys. Boys who play football. What exactly are girls gaining to make this worth that risk?

    LikeLike


  412. on January 7, 2009 at 9:27 pm Anonymous

    “What exactly are girls gaining to make this worth that risk?”

    and I quote:
    teamwork, mutual sacrifice, respect, humility, discipline, and, perhaps most importantly, the ability to isolate and objectify differences between individuals and put those differences to good use….self-reliance, stick-to-it-iveness, discipline, and responsibility.

    These are all things necessary for young people to develop into healthy adults. You think a woman who has no sense of teamwork, mutual sacrifice, discipline, responsibility, etc. is going to be any kind of worthwhile partner or mother?

    The lack of these types of qualities in people of both genders is what brings about the need to resort to games like Game.

    LikeLike



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