It’s another installment of Dating in the City where I chronicle the mirth and madness of dating the headcases and cheap whores that live and work here. The women of this city cough up an endless stream of fodder for my blog. For that, I thank you ladies.
Zeets: You’re not going to believe what this woman said to me when I called. “Let’s meet for a bagel.” What the fuck is that? Let’s meet for a bagel?!
Me: It’s possible for a woman to kill your motivation to see her with just five words.
Zeets: Ah, not to worry, I knew what she was up to. I set her straight and told her “No, we’re meeting at a club that night.” She quickly agreed. I could tell she was overjoyed that I didn’t accept her terms.
Me: There’s nothing more asexual than a brunch date. Sitting there in the middle of the day, spreading cream cheese on your bagel. “Oh this sesame seed bagel is delicious. What do you think? How is your marathon training going?” You want to get a girl into a sexy lounge with alcohol in her.
Zeets: I knew as soon as she said that what type of girl I was dealing with. She’s dated a parade of herbs, one after another, and probably had a bagel date with every single one. I bet they were happy to go. I can just picture these herbs riding up on their ten speeds, taking off their helmets and fanny packs, and giving her a dead fish handshake. [Zeets imitating whiny herb voice] “Ah, ah, nice to see you. I really love bagels. This was a great idea. And, uh, and so it begins.” She wasn’t used to a silverback like me spoiling her script.
Me: She was begging for a caveman to come along and throw her bagels in her face.
Zeets: I was onto her. These girls try to squeeze you into their agenda. Their first instinct is to see if you’ll let them cut off your balls. Most herbs gladly give it up. “Here are my balls! Snip away!” I wasn’t going to let her do that to me. So I brought her back to that time when she was just blossoming into her womanhood and men were exciting to her. I made her feel like a giggling girl again.
Me: That’s all they need. A man to remind them what it was like before modern city life corrupted them.
Zeets: In other news, I removed my old toilet seat and replaced it with a shiny new one. It looks spectacular.
Me: Did your bulk splinter the old one? Who changes their toilet seat?
Zeets: It’s a good investment. Lifts the spirit to see that glittering new throne. A seat fit for a king’s crap! You should try pampering yourself once in a while, pig.
you should bring her back to your place and ass fuck her doggy style in the bathroom while pushing her head into the toilet.
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There’s nothing more asexual than a brunch date. Sitting there in the middle of the day, spreading cream cheese on your bagel.
That is loaded with sexual imagery. What other substance is white and creamy? Also, think of the hole in the bagel …
Peter
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Mailbag>>Dating in DC series….
can’t you get a better quality friend than than Zeets to relay his stories to you?
Mailbags are consistently excellent…..dating in dc series is boring/sad
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Also, think of the hole in the bagel …
No doubt Peter isn’t a fan of plain bagels.
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“you should bring her back to your place and ass fuck her doggy style in the bathroom while pushing her head into the toilet.”
LOL
made my day
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you should put a bagel around you cock and put cream cheese on the head and make her lick and eat it all off. then you should fuck her and shoot a load on poppy bagel and make her eat that.
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Rocco is pretty funny but this is really Kick a Bitch’s material.
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what has to be one of the BEST moments in porn’s history. kudos to you sir…
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These Zeets posts are really inane, stop phoning it in.
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Those posts are practical. This is why they are good. Nerdish people want to discuss feminism/HBD everytime, and it is much harder to start it in Zeets’ posts
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True. “Brunch Dates” are terrible.
Matter of fact, “brunch” is terrible too. There is no reason to be up in the morning that early. Especially on a weekend.
Don’t discount the “Day Date” however. Some smokes a Bishop’s Gardens, then a blower at some secret spots by the Potomac. Day Date and out.
Although, I understand, in DC, it is probably too cold for that this time of year.
– MPM
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A good brunch happens around 12:30. That’s not too early.
You haven’t posted in two weeks kid… what’s the deal?
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“Day dates” mean you’re second string, so it was righteous for Zeets to push for a nite date.
Does anyone remember the episode of “Seinfeld” called “The Pez Dispenser,” where George thinks his relationship with a pianist is fading because he was “demoted” to a lunch date instead of dinner?
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Only in the parallel universe of Pick Up Artistry could this make any sense whatsoever. I can’t even comprehend the concept that agreeing to go out with a woman means letting her “cut off your balls” if she asked you and not the other way around. It’s on par with someone telling you that you’re gay if you open a door without first rotating your left foot 20 degrees counter-clockwise.
In the world of PUA women devise arbitrary tests that seem to exist just for their own sake, and the men compete to see who is best at passing them. To what end? None of it makes any goddamn sense to me.
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“A good brunch happens around 12:30. That’s not too early.”
Wait, is that just “lunch”?
“You haven’t posted in two weeks kid… what’s the deal?”
Traveling. Heavy.
– MPM
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““Day dates” mean you’re second string, so it was righteous for Zeets to push for a nite date.”
Not if you initiate the Day Date.
Either way, who cares if you are “second string”. Let the other guy deal with all the hassles of dating her.
That way you can just handle the bedroom end, which has always been my focus of interest.
“Does anyone remember the episode of “Seinfeld” called “The Pez Dispenser,” where George thinks his relationship with a pianist is fading because he was “demoted” to a lunch date instead of dinner?”
No. I never watched Seinfeld.
– MPM
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Club dates? Seriously?
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Great thoughts, fellas.
As a general rule, I tend to opt for Daytime Ops, a cafe or something like that for a first meet. Basically its to make the Target feel safe, daylight, lots of people (esp. Women) milling around, open air deal, and preferrably good weather if at all possible (this tends to “lighten” the overall mood). I keep the meeting brief, no more than 45 minutes, unless the chemistry is off the chain.
If all goes well, I’ll move the Target along to the next meet, a nitetime venue. Of course, there are times when things are red-hot right then and there, and you move in for the kill lickety split. So you gotta calibrate and so what’s what.
I do think in this case Zeets was right to blow past the gal’ shit test and simply setup a nitetime meet. And Rocco’s posts about Bagels is a rip.
Finally, I know this is way off topic, but I’m hoping Roissy will jumpstart the Game in the Movies threads. I thought the last one he did on Gone With The Wind was excellent, and I’m hoping that he can do a comparitive analysis of the Jason Bourne films and the Daniel Craig era Bond films, to answer this question:
Who has more Game-Bourne, or Bond?
I’m going for Bourne, btw. He gets my vote.
Salaam
Mu
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In the world of PUA women devise arbitrary tests that seem to exist just for their own sake,
Those tests aren’t arbitrary or something that only exists in PUA world. The PUA world has terminology that’s unique to this subculture, but it describes things that happen between men and woman universally.
Women devise these tests, known as “shit tests,” to see if the guy she’s interested has a backbone or is a wimp. Tis is consistent with a woman’s instinct to avoid mating with a weak man. Not passing such a test usually results in being placed on that woman’s friend-list. This means that neither a one night stand, nor an LTR can happen at this point with her.
I am not a PUA and looking back at my dating days, I’m pretty certain that every single woman I’ve gone out with, from junior high school up until I got married has thrown some kind of a shit test my way. They are usually subtle and natural-seeming. The girl doesn’t even know she’s doing it. It’s the female equivalent of me subtly checking out her body when she’s not looking.
In retrospect, some of these sjit tests I’ve passed, and some I did not. There were situations way before I knew of Game when I thought things were going well with a girl — good chemistry, good mutual attraction — and then she’d suddenly lose interest. Looking back, I can trace all those “downturns” in her interest level to a particular and very innocent-seeming test I failed to pass.
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I wonder, do herbs at least have the good sense to choreograph a multi-venue plan?
Meet at the bike repair shop where he works so his buddies can talk him up, head over to bakery for bagel, flounce over to other bakery for $20 cupcakes “because this bakery’s cupcakes just aren’t as authentic,” then to a used record store where he shows off his knowledge of indie rock, then a quick final stop by the farmer’s market to buy her flowers because “some guys still believe in chivalry.”
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Only in the parallel universe of Pick Up Artistry could this make any sense whatsoever.
No, it’s real. Moreover, they throw these tests at their fellow females to establish a pecking order. Clearest distillation of this is the scene in Mean Girls where the queen bee chick launches a rapid-fire volley of shit-tests at Lindsay Lohan’s naive character, when they first meet.
queen bee: “You’re really pretty.”
lohan: “Thank you.”
qb: “So you agree.”
l
l: “What?”
qb: “You think you’re really pretty.”
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What could a more savvy version of the Linsey Lohan character have replied to “You’re really pretty” ?
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Brunch is defined by the menu more than the time. Most brunch menus stay served til 2 or 3pm. My feeling is if you’re eating steak and eggs with a mimosa at 1PM on a Sunday and you woke up two hours ago… you’re having brunch.
Where have you been traveling to?
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lol. if these were two men, lohan’s character could pass qb’s shit test like this:
ll: “hey, thanks for noticing, homo.”
but since these are girls, the shiv has to be plunged into the soft flesh with a little more subtlety:
qb: “so you agree.”
ll: “what?”
qb: “you think you’re really pretty.”
ll: “well, i don’t know, but you seem to think so.”
ps brunch is a horrible way to establish the sexytime mood. don’t do it.
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PA:
These women don’t know the first thing about what constitutes backbone so obviously the tests don’t serve their alleged purpose. And the tests are completely ridiculous and arbitrary anyway.
I know these tests exist, but I just can’t imagine normal people doing them.
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Agnostic,
Excellent point on the Time-Shifting. According to MM, *and* I might add, The Art of Seduction, frequent changes of venue throughout the date is an essential element of a successful seduction. In fact I have done this very same thing several times in the past, without even knowing it. Now that I do indeed know better, I’ll be incorporating it into my operations, starting this weekend.
Salaam
Mu
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“Having a bagel” is sort of the default DC quickie lunch, for young professionals “on the go”.
She was obviously shit testing you, but it was an unconscious shit test, since people in DC are so accustomed to having bagels everyday. By suggesting a bagel, she was signaling that “our date is not that important; I’m penciling you in between hard breaks.”
She put lobbed the shit-ball into your court, and you smashed it back into hers in the only way that allowed you to cleave onto your male dignity.
Oh god, I hate DC women…
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“Who has more Game-Bourne, or (Daniel Craig who ain’t) Bond?”
I just saw a Bourne movie for the first time over the holiday. I declare both Bourne and Craig-Bond as vag-tastic. Both of them are moody women. I found myself laughing at Bourne and all the CIA spooks saying, “ooo, Bourne is wicked scary!” He’s a fargin spy; WTF is with all the self-doubt and girlie teenage angst? I’m more intimidated by Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau. Best spy: John Drake played by Patrick McGoohan. From there, it goes Connery, Moore, Lazenby and maybe James Coburn as Flint. Modern actors do not compare. John Drake could spin around Craig-bond and Bourne like a pair of numchucks, causing all females in the area to suction cup themselves to whatever smooth surface they lean up against.
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That’s not a shit test.
That girl is a slut.
She likes the guy too much to send slut signals. She wants a “proper” date, so he wouldn’t think badly of her in case he’s marriage material.
However, she is so used to hook ups, she doesn’t even know what a “proper” date would be like. She can’t invite herself for dinner, so she offers “bagel”.
The mere fact that she happily agreed to the club date says it all. Sluts love the sexually charged atmosphere of the raw meat market. They love the tipsiness that allows them to backwards rationalize the same night lay as “due to the alcohol”.
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These women don’t know the first thing about what constitutes backbone so obviously the tests don’t serve their alleged purpose. And the tests are completely ridiculous and arbitrary anyway.
You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder. Yet you linger at a PUA blog. Maybe this means you are trying to learn something useful.
If that’s the case, it’s a good idea to shut up and listen to people who sound like they know what they’re talking about. But you’re counterarguing from a position of ignorance. Why?
Ask yourself: would you rather be right, or be happy?
I know these tests exist, but I just can’t imagine normal people doing them.
You’re aaarguing, and yet you don’t listen. I just got done telling you that every single girl I’ve dated threw shit tests, and I explained the nature of those shit tests to you. They were all normal girls.
Again, if you wanna learn something, it’s usually a good idea to shut up until you in fact do know something.
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I think we are getting hung up on the brunch tactic aspect of this. Recall, Zeets calls her, so we can assume, unless he’s a bozo or a stalker or something, that he’s built up sufficient interest to get her number and the implied permission to call pursuant to a romantic interest. She replies with a date idea. WTF. Early on, in the nascent relationship, before most if not all get-togethers are assumed, isn’t there general rule that if the female proffers a certain level or degree of intimacy date idea that you, as a man, should reject and counter-offer (usually to escalate or raise), and not as a tactical thing but as a strategic, I-know-what-I’m-doing-just-you-stop-worrying-your-pretty-little-head-vibe. E.g. let’s have brunch -> nah, that’s not the way I see this happening, I’ll pick you up at 8 for dinner and some stuff afterwards, I’ll be (casual/business casual/in a suit/whatever); my book club is meeting Tuesday at 7:30, wanna join? -> thanks, that sounds nice, but I have to work late and, really, I figured it would just be me and you this Thursday or Friday night, what’s better for you?; etc. etc. I mean, who’s making the calls here? She’s just fishing for more commitment, looking for you to take the lead. Why not give it to her? I mean, you do want to eventually, at some point, have sex with her, right? If you let her take the wheel odds increase that you’ll just get lost in the friend-zone.
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“Who has more Game-Bourne, or Bond?”
The XXX character in Layer Cake.
Dope book too.
Layer Cake that is.
– MPM
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“Brunch is defined by the menu more than the time. Most brunch menus stay served til 2 or 3pm. My feeling is if you’re eating steak and eggs with a mimosa at 1PM on a Sunday and you woke up two hours ago… you’re having brunch.”
I got you. I was just playing.
Although, if I was eating steak and eggs at 3am, I wouldn’t call it brunch. I would call it “peak hours”.
“Where have you been traveling to?”
Caribe and Central.
– MPM
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“I can just picture these herbs riding up on their ten speeds, taking off their helmets and fanny packs, and giving her a dead fish handshake” – fucking priceless….even RALEIGH FUCKING NORTH CAROLINA is infested with the nancy boy ponces and their bikes and beards, and lack of any fashion acumen whatsoever, made cool by their taste of music (so they think). fucking l.a.m.e.
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Hi Lupo,
I respect your opinion, but I chose Bourne and the Craig-era Bond for specific reasons: the main one being that they speak to our generation *now*. I like Connery too, but that was from before I was born. We have to look at what’s happening *today*, and make an assessment.
And on that basis Bourne gets my vote over Bond for several reasons:
1. Look at the way he Games Marie. Now, keep in mind, he has amnesia, is on the run from the CIA, and doesn’t have anywhere near the “gravitas” Bond typically is depicted as having. In fact, he uses Marie’s Mini Cooper hooptie to evade the French cops.
2. In addition to Gaming Marie, he also Games Nicki, whom he had something with earlier, and Pam Landy, a CIA higher up. Both of these Women put their very lives on the line to help him. Game like a MFer.
Bourne has the kind of Inner Game, in my humble view, that PUAs need to study very carefully. He was able to get what he needed done, without a tux, fancy gadgets, or a tricked-out Astin-Martin. He relied on his wits, survivor’s instincts, and hardcore training, all of which contributed strongly to his Game. Bond’s nice, but he ain’t got nothing on Bourne, from a Game standpoint.
I tell guys all the time that Wallet/Gadget Game (Money, Cars, etc.) Are among the *weakest* kinds of Game a Man can have, because when they’re gone, so are, invariably, the Women. Bourne was able to strategically use three Women to help him meet his objectives, and he didn’t need any Wallet Game to do it (he *did* offer money to Marie, but remember, she stuck around far longer than she was supposed to, because of Bourne himself, not his money).
Holla back
Salaam
Mu
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PA:
I have no use for PUA knowledge.
What position of ignorance?
What does this even mean?
I guess that’s true if “normal” is defined as “dumb vapid slut.” I do not yet regard such people as normal.
Oh wow, this sounds really important.
Oh wait, this is about fucking dumb vapid sluts. That’s really important.
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“Oh wow, this sounds really important.
Oh wait, this is about fucking dumb vapid sluts. That’s really important.”
I wouldn’t say “important”.
But if they are fly, I would say “fun”.
Generally speaking.
– MPM
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Shit-test is a bad phrase. Too much of an implication of conscious, tactical thought by the woman. Most girls will be a little nervous when you call them. They don’t get asked out a lot, because 95% of guys just don’t approach girls. They are concerned primarily with how they are coming of to you, not the other way around. No time to be constructing shit tests to wring you through.
It’s more accurate to think of shit tests as situations in which you have a few different responses you can give, each with a different outcome. For example, when this chick suggests a bagel lunch with Zeets, I would lay 99-1 she is not thinking, “hah, let’s see how he does here…Zeets suggests club…..oooh, good job ZEETS!”
Zeet’s reaction was still the correct one, and she is more attracted to him for it. He basically said, “bagels are great, but I am interested in sex with you, and soon. We are not going to be shopping buddies.” Agreeing to a bagel would not have communicated this. So good job, Zeets.
But the idea that the bagel date was something she constructed for the purpose of testing him… doubtful. So people in the comments who are new to some of this material are confused, because in this “Shit test” she neither gave him shit, nor consciously tested him.
Kind of like how “Negs” aren’t supposed to be negative.
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TJF,
I think PA’s got a good point. Just how much of Game do you actually know? Its cool to give an *informed critique* of something, but if you haven’t even read some of the basic source materials, etc, how can you do that?
Comments?
Salaam
Mu
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Tokyo jesus fist, you wrote, back-to-back:
“I have no use for PUA knowledge” and then
“What position of ignorance?”
If you had a passing knowledge of some of the Ev Psych that informs PU Artistry, you might better understand my suggestion to kill yourself for the benefit of humankind.
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Interesting question by PA right after that too, about being right or happy. A recurring theme of this blog is the preference of the former over the latter.
In the case of Game, being right (i.e., coming to a fuller understanding of attraction and seduction) is directly correlated with being happy, assuming having greater success with women makes you happy.
But what about when truth and happiness are competitive and you must choose one or the other? My life would be quite a bit smoother if I didn’t choose to embrace and make public some of my more controversial views.
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I forgot to add that “having a bagel” is very SWPL.
I think it may even be on the official list.
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It’s not a test per se. But your response tells her what kind of guy you are. You say yes, and you come off as passive, don’t know what you want or too pussy to ask. aka, typical chump, who’s happy to just be asked out by a girl.
When you suggest a different idea, especially one where the prospect of sex is good, you’re communicating, “I’m confident and experienced enough to ask for what I want, sex.”
I see no reason for day dates pre-bang, unless they extend into the night.
Eh, Craig has prole written all over him.
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To make it even more authentic and DC, you have to say, “Let’s grab a bagel”.
This connotes you are a busy young professional on-the-go, and that you put your work/career above all else, including dates.
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With his last comment, Tokyo showed himelf to be a troll, best ignored.
The right-happy thing is something that’s asked of novices who persist with their own worldview even when confronted with evidence to the contrary, and even though their way prevents them from being happy.
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Mu’Min:
What is it that I’m supposed to know about “game?” What’s the relevance?
Zdeno:
Let me guess: you are posting from the secure wing of a psychiatric ward, yes?
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TJF has a a very hateful style. TJF are probably his/hr initials and the name itself was chosen so that it is slightly offensive to christianity. And finally he/she is an obvious PUA-hater. It remains to be seen if TJF is girl or a beta
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PA:
Looks like someone got cornered. Usually people can hold out longer before that happens.
What evidence to the contrary, and how would you know what makes or doesn’t make me happy?
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“It remains to be seen if TJF is girl or a beta”
TJF is a gayta — a female-to-beta transsexual (preop).
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Well, I still think day dates won’t lure anyone into bed unless you’re an absolute master of game — which clearly even Zeets isn’t or he would have “grabbed a bagel” with her.
Having worked in DC for some time, I think Joe T,. has called this one. It’s the case of the “overbooked” DC female that can “squeeze you in” between a zillion “errands” and appointments. You need to redefine things to be on your schedule here and not just be another thing on her daily “to do” list, right alongside picking up the drycleaning.
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gig:
“I can’t think of anything to say so I’ll guess just speculate about what this guy’s nickname means.”
Old tactic, seen it before. And for the record, the name comes from an old Something Awful joke.
Obviously. PUAs tend to be douchebags with delusions of grandeur.
You do realize that the terms alpha and beta are completely misunderstood by PUAs, right? Banging sluts does not an alpha make.
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X does not a Y make…. what a tired and over-used phrase. Almost as bad as ‘methinks the X doth protest too much’.
The argument with TJF started out when he claimed normal girls don’t shit test, only dumb vapid sluts. TJF, a little bit about your own background would illuminate. The only two options are that a) you don’t have much romantic contact with girls and so you’re speaking without experience (this is supported by your reference to SomethingAwful) or b) you are a beta (as defined here, if not by you) and you treat every request by your girlfriend as a command she wants obeyed rather than a (subconscious) test of your tolerance for being ordered around.
What is your purpose for trolling here? Seems like a waste.
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TJF,
If you’re banging good looking sluts, you’re probably an alpha and would have little difficulty landing the occasional quality girl with far greater frequency that someone unable to bang good looking sluts due to shyness.
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When I was a young, single guy back in the 80s, meeting a girl for Sunday brunch usually meant:
– Inexpensive meal
– Lotsa cheap champagne
– The girl has her guard down
– She gets tipsy
– I get laid
– I’m done with her by 4 or 5 PM
– Still get to do whatever I wanted to later that evening
And this is a bad thing?
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If I may, I’d just like to take the liberty of following up on a recent question Chic Noir asked me, in relation to a statement I made on the Reader’s Mailbag Thread.
I had said that there are a certain type of Sista (read, Black Woman) whom my running buddies call “Mistics”. Chic asked for clarification on this point, and for that I turned to my ace Zam, who was one of the oringinators of the term. He just sent me a detailed reply, which I trust those to whom it is of interest will file in their Playbooks for future reference:
ZAM:
I guess I would define a mystic in different ways. A Mystic is a modern Afro-American version of a hippie in many ways. Most mystics have a heavily political orientation combined with some sort of Artistic pursuits and a philosophical conception of the world centered around peace and harmony but they may also be very race conscious or even predjudiced. The women usually are very conscious of their “femaleness” in relation to men as well as societys tendency to mistreat its own citizens and they pride themselves on their social consciousness and “awareness” of these things and often behave as though others dont realize whats happening around them. They usually eschew makeup, wear their hair natural, wear clothing thats supposed to speak to simplicity and deliberately might fashion themselves in opposition to the popular culture or anything that speaks of materialism or superfice. Mystic women tend to have egos that are connected to their ideologies and dont feel like they really have any identity outside of the whole mystique of being a mystic. They dont often realize how much of a clone they are, just of a different breed and as much as they are constantly preaching about the “one-ness” of the community they are often very devisive, self centered and willing to draw lines between people, especially if they are leveling criticism towards white people or males of any race.The peace and love act is usually pretty phone if you scratch the surface and many of them have very nasty attitudes and a great deal of anger that they will direct at you personally when they dont have this philosophical enemy (the man, the system etc.) to attack. I have found the worst of the female mystics to have alot of issues with men and specifically their fathers and unless your a part of their clique are extremely hard to get along with. They are usually unhappy and very insecure and they look for an escape from their issues in being a part of some cause or “waking people up” which usually doenst amount to much but alot of hot air.To me they are inauthentic carbon copies of the types of people my mom ran with who seemed alot more sincere. Most women arent full blown mystics though, they usually have a touch of it here or there.
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There seems to be this assumption among many that game only works on low quality women. This is wrong. Game works as well in church as it does in the bar. Good women won’t just jump into bed with you, but that is a separate issue. You still need some game to get them to be your long term girlfriend or wife.
(Partial exception for nerd girls, who tend to have much more straightforward personalities.)
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Seeking Alpha: shit testing is something that I would expect from people with mental problems, which is why I don’t classify it as normal behavior. And no, I don’t have a girlfriend.
JerrDog, banging sluts doesn’t have anything to do with being alpha. That’s completely juvenile thinking.
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TJF – Okay, so we can all agree that you’re basing your opinions on what ‘you would expect’ rather than what you’ve observed. Going a step further, based on the two data points of no girlfriend and Something-Awful-derived tag, what you would expect is what a beta would expect and what you have observed ranges from nothing to – at best – whatever female friends you have.
I think we can safely ignore TJF now and classify him as an excellent demonstration of Roissy’s caricature of the pro-feminist, anti-sex beta.
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TJF,
YES, what I and PA asked is very relevant, in light of your near Ad Hominem assaults on PUAs and Game. So, let me ask you straight up:
What materials have you actually read to lead you to these conclusions?
Now, I’m more than willing to have a reasoned, *informed* debate on the matter with you, TJF. I freely respect your feelings on the matter. But I you want to go head to head on the facts, let’s have it. I’m saying to you that Game immeasureably aids a Man in our Time get what he wants insofar as Women are concerned. It is not perfect, it can be abused, just like any tool or set of tools can. But it DOES work.
Now then, may we proceed…in a gentlemanly manner?
Your response to my direct question above? Let’s start there…
Holla back
Salaam
Mu
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Seeking Alpha: again, you guys have no idea what alpha and beta actually mean. And where have I defended feminism? You’re just making shit up (and accusing me of trolling for no apparent reason) because you can’t think of anything else.
Expecting that the majority of women don’t suffer from severe mental health problems seems pretty reasonable to me.
Mu’Min, still don’t understand the relevance.
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Actually, I will correct myself.
I have enjoyed brunch before: In New Orleans with a fly Exotic Dancer I met the night before.
On a few occasions.
Food in New Orleans is so legit. Even brunch.
Although I would take Dinner at Galatoires over brunch any day.
– MPM
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I’m a medical student and have had one boyfriend (and another if you count online-talking-only-but-I-was-14-damnit).
Psychoanalysing the way I behave, I say there’re constantly little tests that I’m consciously unaware of when dealing with a male to evaluate what stuff he’s made of. I only realise this is happening when the memories replay later, and I break it down — well, why do I feel that way? Why did I act this way with this male (bored, friendly or repelled) and that way with that other male (interested or flirty?! I have it in me?!)? It’s logical in terms of evolutionary psychology and in terms of Abrahamic religion to constantly be on watch, as a female, for what type of guy you’re dealing with. Through how he reacts to your behaviour, how he reacts to the environment and how he carries himself.
The ones you’d most want to be aware of are traps set by the woman herself, though. She’s the one who suggested the wrong kind of date intentionally or unintentionally; but then again, how often would she encounter non-beta dates?
I think humans ‘shit-test’ each other all the time. e.g. Highschool: What makes that guy the leader of the group and that guy a nobody? But as a PUA, and specifically one in DC, you’ve got to specialise in DC female’s specific tests, yo.
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But then again, having brunch in New Orleans compared to “grabbing a bagel” in DC is like comparing being a NYC real Estate tycoon to being a homeless person.
Especially if it was some chain bagel shop.
Was it?
Or did she invite you to Krupins?
If it was Krupins maybe you should have gone.
That place used to be legit too.
But I have heard they have new owners, so I don’t know the current status.
– MPM
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TJF,
OK. Let’s do it this way:
What is your position on Game, TJF? I yield the floor to you so as to allow you to fully layout your views.
Salaam
Mu
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Reminds me…….
I can recall only one test , but it came from a 7 yr. old girl. I brought home “Urban Boyfriend” to meet my rural family. Little sister found him dubious and soft, “You don’t seem like most men.” True. He dressed well and never spoke, “ain’t”.
I don’t recall his response, but he later stated, “She complained that she didn’t see enough shit on my shoes.” I felt positive about him; that he saw through her little test.
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Shit, I said ‘yo’. *will not talk to a girlfriend on the phone while typing out a comment again*
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Mu: Bourne wins over Craig-Bond because Craig-Bond is merely trying to be Bourne. However; they’re both vag-tastic, and non role models. I hated Bourne so much, I wrote a helpful blog on why he’s a twat. I don’t think the Bourne movies speak to our generation or any generation of men, though I think he’s a great example of a modern urban American woman. I bet he runs marathons and goes to improv class to get in touch with his inner child when he’s not busy running away from his problems.
Check out John Drake, Secret Agent some time. Retarded name for a TV show, but that dude had real intensity.
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When a guy asks me out to brunch, first thing that enters me mind— This is a very classy guy.
Thanks for the info MU, your friend’s definition is what I thought he would say. Except, I figured he would mention the branch of being “very submissive to your man” group.
agnosticMeet at the bike repair shop where he works so his buddies can talk him up, head over to bakery for bagel, flounce over to other bakery for $20 cupcakes
I sure hope this economy puts those types of BS business out of their misery. Twenty bucks for a damn cupcake. I saw cupcakes priced at 4 bucks a pop, I damn near screamed my head off.
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TJF = David Alexander’s evil twin.
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Lupo, I couldn’t disagree more. Craig’s Bond is much more aloof than Damon’s Bourne; in fact, the key difference btw the two is that the latter is known for his sensitivity, now one can argue whether that’s a good or bad thing, and personally I couldn’t care less about that.
My point is that Bourne was able to appeal to three Women who actually helped him in his mission to “re-find” himself. Bond merely knocks off Women who don’t really have a heck of a lot to d with his missions, or if they do they’re in tangential ways. Now don’t get me wrong-Bond definitely gets hotter Women than Bourne, no doubt about it. But my point is that Bourne’s Inner Game really came through in the films.
And I’ll checkout the Drake piece when I get the chance.
Salaam
Mu
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Re G Manifesto:”I never watched Seinfeld.” Black people really didnt like Seinfeld. I wonder why?
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@Jones- Some of us did. Now Friends, yuck!
Elaine dancing classic
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Chic,
Not sure I follow your comments wrt Zam’s definition of the term “Mystic”. Could you please elaborate? Thanks.
Salaam
Mu
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Well there are some who are very ” do everything to please your man” etc… Actually some of them step it on over to the Rasta side in a way.
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Hmm…that seems to run against what Zam’s talking about. According to him, a good bit of the Mystic’s persona is an act, or at the least they’re having “man” problems due to problems with their daddies…
Salaam
Mu
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I feel this is Roissy material:
http://thesuperficial.com/2009/01/minimes_sex_life_is_hilarious.php
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“Check out John Drake, Secret Agent some time. Retarded name for a TV show, but that dude had real intensity.”
Oh yeah, and “The Prisoner”! Who’s cooler than No. 6?
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These comments are boring as fuck.
ATTN: G Manifesto
Please learn how to use quotation marks, commas, and capital letters.
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“”I never watched Seinfeld.” Black people really didnt like Seinfeld. I wonder why?”
I don’t know. I am not black.
I would just rather be out at night swooping girls and gulping wine than watching TV.
– MPM
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In case anyone isn’t full after dinner, here’s a tasty little treat, GNP-style.
Peter
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On the bright side you could have said sure.. but she would have to pick you up and pay for your food because -insert ridiculous barely plausible reason-. a compliance test if you will. It never ceases to amaze me how many ladies are willing to buy you stuff if you ask. =) The push pull uncertainty is what makes things fun right?
BTW, I truly enjoy this blog and most of there commenters here.
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Chic,
Oh, no doubt, EB’s got quite a snapper by all accounts, LOL! But you know, although I’ve always enjoyed her music immensely, I’ve never been physically attracted to her *at all*. She just doesn’t do anything for me in the least.
Salaam
Mu
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“And no, I don’t have a girlfriend.”
Proof positive that you’re not a regular Casanova. Not having a girlfriend doesn’t mean a lack of success with girls.
You can’t imagine having sex outside of a relationship, i.e. you aren’t and never have.
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jesus fist doesn’t have a girlfriend, because she is a girl. I’m pretty sure. If I’m right, then she’s a very typical girl by most standards, and I’m probably a little insane. Well I’m a little insane whether i’m right or wrong. see you later.
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this site is a trip times ten. plus a midget.
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I agree with Lupo, Bourne was a twat, Drake the man. Amazing.
Another good example: John Steed (Patrick McNee) in the Avengers, particularly the early seasons with the prickly Honor Blackman.
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Zeets: It’s a good investment. Lifts the spirit to see that glittering new throne. A seat fit for a king’s crap! You should try pampering yourself once in a while, pig.
Zeets thinks you’re a pig too?
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“dating the headcases and cheap whores that live and work here.”
What, do you mean competent women who have their own lives instead of catering to you.
You just insulted every one you are attracted to. How are you not women hating again?
It’s pretty to weak to hate half the population. Although I suppose when you want to instantly earn the attention of strangers you have to grab the weakest chain.
It seems to me like you find people who have knowledge and priorities intimidating. What you are looking for is lack of experience, yet you do not directly say this. Instead you hide behind the idea of nature or youth, or their unworthiness.This upsets me because that is in the opposite of attraction. For all the talk of the sex that you get you seem bitter, like a postmenopausal cougar. That’s what I’ve found in a lot of PUA blogs.
I think it important to learn to enjoy people. You are so critical of conversation. Do you even enjoy it anymore?
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Mu’Min:
I have no doubt it works and does what it’s supposed to, but I don’t understand why PUAs chase after mindless automatons and jump through endless arbitrary hoops like shit tests. Wouldn’t you rather spend your energy on real people?
BasilRansom:
Not sure what your point is. You’re just telling me things I already know.
high messiah:
My writing style alone should make it obvious that I’m not female.
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Zeets went to a club? WTF?
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Good Morning TJF,
OK. Let me make sure I understand you: we seem to agree, that Game does indeed, work. Yes? If that’s so, we can then move on to your next proposition:
That PUAs seem to only chase “low class” Women.
Now, if I understand your views correctly above, we can then proceed in the following fashion:
Please go to the Roissy archives of this forum. Click on Dec 2008. Select “Sexbotopia!”, and scroll down the comments to Dec 13 2008.
There you will see a post by me, discussing events taking place a decade ago, w/a Woman I call L The Jewess.
Please note that I did not pickup LTJ in a club or bar, nor would she be considered low class based on my description. And, please note that she attempted a classic Shit Test on me.
I speak for no other Man/PUA/Player but myself, TJF. But I can tell you, based on my own direct experience, that not only does Game work wrt Women period, but that Women-ALL WOMEN-do indeed run Shit Tests, of one sort or another, when faced w/the prospect of a potential Suitor.
I’m glad that you’ve decided to have a reasoned and informed debate on the merits, or indeed lack thereof, of Game, TJF.
Looking forward to your responses.
Salaam
Mu
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There’s nothing wrong with a bagel date, it doesn’t cost much and you can find out if you like the girl. Most good looking girls won’t have sex with you on the first date due to a need for reinforcing their self conception so might as well get one date out of the way cheap and leaving room for another date later in the evening. The trick to making one of these “lame” dates work is to keep it under 20 minutes, have some place to be. She’ll show up, have a bagel, and be kind of mad that she didn’t get to spend more time with you. Being upset over not having something feels pretty much like wanting something.
I get the need to break the desire to break her script. That’s perfectly valid, but there’s nothing wrong with a coffee tea day date early on in the process.
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Mu’Min:
Not low class. Automatons. Pavlov’s dogs.
Doesn’t the knowledge that there isn’t a single decent woman on this planet depress you at all?
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“My writing style alone should make it obvious that I’m not female.”
your writing style and its content make you look like a high T woman who just stumbled upon the concept of game.
Your writing style makes you look clueless and hypocritical at best.
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some women will never understand game, much like how most men can’t get a period.
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sober messiah:
Maybe you’re just not good at reading.
Where is the hypocrisy?
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TJF,
Nope. Maybe that’s because of what I’m expecting in a fellow Human Being, Perfection not being one of them.
Human Nature has its ups and downs, its hills and valleys, and if one is going to have such a high standard for this sort of thing they should get set for A LOT of disappointment in Life, because people will almost assuredly let you down. And this goes for Women, too.
No Player I know or read, laments things in the way you do, TJF. Maybe that’s because they too busy living Life, instead of theorizing about it.
Much to learn, you still have.
Next question?
Salaam
Mu
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Mu’Min:
Expecting a human to be human is not the same thing as expecting perfection. If I wanted to talk to a (dumb) robot I would use a chat bot.
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TJF,
No problemo, man. So, who *do* you talk to, please? And, is *your* system of meeting high quality ladies replicable?
Salaam
Mu
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“Success with women is more disillusioning than failure”
the best comment in november. From which you CANNOT conclude the failure is not disillusioning.
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Gunner might be right. It doesn’t seem to me that the bagel idea was a shit-test. More reasonable is that she is busy, didn’t think THAT highly of the guy, and wanted to get to know him better in a low-pressure environment. Now, it WAS a good idea for him to change the venue, but I don’t think it would have been bad to get the bagel, and THEN set up the next date somewhere with alcohol and later in the day.
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Mu’Min:
I don’t talk to anyone.
That’s your problem right there: using a “system.” It’s guaranteed to only get you women who are part of that system.
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TJF,
No problemo again, Mi Amigo. Then, please explain how you go about things? Are you in a relationship with such a high quality Woman right now? Have you ever been? For how long, please?
Salaam
Mu
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You’re being evasive.
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TJF,
How so? Please explain? I’m only asking you how you go about meeting high quality Women. That’s it.
Your response?
Salaam
Mu
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You’re avoiding the fact that the women you’re meeting are mindless automatons.
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Mu,
This troll is abusing your good-faith attempts at a conversation. But I’ll grant that it’s one of the more amusing trolls this site has seen.
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PA, go troll somewhere else.
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“My point is that Bourne was able to appeal to three Women who actually helped him in his mission to “re-find” himself.”
Yeah, I get it: I just don’t buy it actually happening. Old school Bond’s cocky insta-seductions are about 200X more likely. When was the last time in the history of humanity a woman played white knight to a man? Seriously man: when was the last time a woman who isn’t a relative even offered to help you, I dunno, do something simple like your laundry or something?
Drake’s an Alpha++.
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Lupo,
I’ve had the very good fortune of Women helping me in significant ways and I wasn’t bangin’ em. One of my best friends Zam, has this happen all the time. I recently spoke of how he’s been getting free rides to and from work for more than a year now from a seriously Hot Babe who refuses to take his money and they are sexually involved. Zam has also received two stacks from another ladyfriend of his who he was not sexually involved with either.
I attribute that to the kind of Game displayed in the Bourne films. Of course, you are most free to disagree.
Salaam
Mu
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You’re projecting Mu’Min. Just because you play silly games doesn’t mean everyone does.
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Mu,
I concur with you about Bourne’s game, not only does he get woman with few natural resources, but they provide him much more support than a simple one-time tryst, which is all Bond has. The average young woman has more resources than the average young adult male, and woman will support and aid men who they believe they have something to offer. Tho’ your friend was not sleeping with the women, I would bet my life they would fuck him under the right circumstances. Successful women are especially prone to support attractive men in such a manner.
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Mu: if you can get women to wash your socks for you, you win. If you do stuff they want to do anyway, not so much win. Drive to work … not very much win, unless she’s driving him significantly out of her way.
Helping escaped criminals they’re not porking would be win if Bourne had done something to deserve it; basically I don’t believe women act that way when men act like twitchy angstbots. Bourne is simply not believable to me as any kind of womanizer or alpha dude. Women bone cocky funny James Bond dudes all the time.
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Lupo,
Wrt my buddy Zam: the gal who drives him to work actually *does* go out of her way to do this for him; she starts work later than he does, and she waits for Zam to get off from work, about a half hour or so, *every day for the past year*, so she can pick him up and drive him back home. And keep in mind, this was when gas was damn near $5/gal.
Now, w/all due respect: have you Lupo, ever experienced such a thing from a Hot Chick tht you was NOT banging? That would be a yes or no question.
I’ve put this very same Bourne-Craig/Bond question to about a dozen of Women; take a wild guess what they said. Invariably, almost to a Woman, they chose Bourne. Now you can argue it was because he’s a pantywaste of a Man and all that, but last time I heard, a successful Player gives Women what they want-and clearly, Bourne was compelling enough a figure to make three Women, only one of whom we know for certain he was banging, want to help him to the point of putting their very lives on the line. If that ain’t Game, I don’t know what is.
*Shrugs shoulders*
Salaam
Mu
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one david alexander is already one too many.
for the quadruple-quadrillion-fold statistics heads out there, that’s 8% too many, where the 8 should be written sideways.
this sort of obviously thread-hijacking bullshit should be grounds for an exception to roissy’s indulgent refusal to ban trolls.
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“have you Lupo, ever experienced such a thing from a Hot Chick tht you was NOT banging?”
I suppose women have done me favors like that; but I generally ended up fucking them unless they had herpes. I don’t think it’s equivalent to helping me escape from the CIA, which is entirely different. Really, the only way you’re gonna pull that off is by pressing their mommy buttons. Mommy buttons ain’t gonna get you laid -at least not in any fashion you want to get laid.
I don’t believe anything women say about who they’d bump uglies with; they generally don’t know themselves, which is why they almost always say, “a nice guy.” Observation trumps self reporting. No woman would admit they’d fall for Roissy’s game either, but I’m quite certain they do regularly.
This is sort of a Batman versus Superman argument, but it’s kind of fun anyway. Plus it gives me opportunity to pimp the greatest fictional secret agent of all time: John Drake.
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A nice guy wouldn’t rape them, and that’s clearly the only way they’re falling for a typical non-alpha.
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[…] another amusing, and cringingly awful, DC dating escapade. The great thing about multiple martinis is that it’s one of the few elixirs that is capable […]
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