This week I will discuss Asshole Game. There is no sugarcoating it; being an asshole works on women, all women, most of the time. Any man who has lived a day in his life and isn’t self-deluded by equalist ideology or chick flic romanticism knows this is true, even those PUA “love gurus” who unctuously sermonize that what women really want are “strong confident men” minus the asshole part. Save your holier-than-thou moralizing and desperate attempts to discredit asshole game by falsely claiming it only appeals to low self esteem girls. We’re going to discuss what works, not what should work.
I’ve written before about how effective asshole game is at attracting and keeping your women in line. If you’ve been in a rut, or you’re having troubles with your girlfriend (almost always instigated by the girl), acting like an asshole is the quickest and most efficient way to set things straight. I was talking about this with a couple friends recently and they agreed that no matter how often they see asshole game work, they still can’t accept the reality of it. I hear this said all the time from friends who have witnessed me using asshole game on a girl: “I can’t believe that works.” No surprise. No man truly wants to believe that soul of a woman was created below.
I’m going to briefly describe a scenario from my own life when I was an asshole with a girl, and what effect it had on her. Use my lessons in your own life and be amazed at the results it gets you. (No, seriously.) In the comments, feel free to offer your own asshole suggestions for how you would have handled the situation I present.
I was six months into a relationship with a pretty au pair (standard MO: ten years younger). She lived outside the city. I was already telling her to “see me on a Tuesday night, because this weekend is tough for me. And you need to research getting your green card.” I said this because secretly I was in hunter mode and wanted the weekend nights to myself for preying on fresh meat. My friends thought I was crazy. “She’s the perfect girlfriend. Why would you fuck that up?” “She’s going to know you’re out at the clubs hitting on girls. She’ll leave you.” That’s all I ever heard from them.
One of those weekend nights I was at a music club with friends, chatting with some goth chicks standing around us. Late in the night, my au pair girlfriend showed up at the club, unexpectedly. She had had her host family drop her off in front of the club at 1 am. I never told her where I would be at, let alone that I was even going out that night. She simply guessed and nailed it. I didn’t see her come in. My friends looked over my shoulder with raised eyebrows as my GF sidled up behind me and put her arms around my waist.
*ASSHOLE ALERT*
I turned around and looked at her without smiling, the disappointment etched onto my face. I remember the thoughts going through my head: “Oh man, I won’t be able to hit on any girls now that she’s here.” I muttered “Hey” and with a hint of annoyance asked her how she got there. I told her to get herself a drink. She never left my side for the rest of the night while I constantly glanced around the room. Her eyes blazed with a mixture of love and worry.
We stayed together for another year. It went on like this for a while: Me keeping a distance to surreptitiously hit on new women, her chasing after me. The sex never faltered. It was always hot and her pussy dripped like a faucet right up until the end.
There are genuine assholes who are loved, and there are spiteful assholes who get nowhere. The difference is crucial.
Uncaring asshole = success with women.
Caring asshole = failure with women.
When women say they don’t fall for assholes, they are thinking of the second kind. A caring asshole comes from a place of bitterness and spite. His assholery is reactive rather than proactive. He is poor at calibrating which women will be responsive to his dick attitude. Caring assholes are crassly insulting and transparently invested in the outcome of their game.
Uncaring assholes are assholes as a consequence of their indifference. It is the aloofness of the man she loves that drives women crazy with obsession*, and that aloofness is manifest as asshole behavior. An uncaring asshole demonstrates clearly in his body language and tone of voice, not to mention his dearth of words, that he could take her or leave her. In the scenario above, my asshole behavior mirrored my feelings perfectly — I really did not want her there by my side that night.
*Why do women love assholes? Quickie answer: Sexy Sons hypothesis.
For those that care the Sexy Sons hypothesis is here….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_son_hypothesis
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“they agreed that no matter how often they see asshole game work, they still can’t accept the reality of it. I hear this said all the time from friends who have witnessed me using asshole game on a girl: “I can’t believe that works.””
I’m with them on this one. It goes against our feminist-instilled mentality that this should work, but it does. I tried this last night on my girl. She interrupted me during a group conversation. I held up my finger, looked her square in the eye and said “Don’t fucking interrupt me,” with a snarl / growl.
She licked my taint later on that night.
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Yo,
I would have swooped those goth girls and swooped the au pair. How?
My Louis Vuitton time machine. Steve Wynn gave it to me when I was an up and coming G.
Give the au pair’s ride a flat tire. Swoop the goth girls. When I was finished I would have gotten in my time machine that Steve Wynn gave me, (Did I mention that we go way back?) and shown up at the au pairs house and swooped her.
Pretty simple G stuff. Sometimes I bang dudes and then use my time machine to go back in time to before I banged them. It’s not gay if it hasn’t happened yet.
Dr. Deepdick
aka The P-holes Champ
“The Guide to Getting More in to Your Wife”
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I’m married 6 years (together for 8) and I’m still the aloof uncaring asshole that I was when I married the bitch. Duh, that’s why I’m still married dudes…..and kinda happily too….she spreads whenever I want because I don’t demand it everyday.
Any guys that still doubt the effectiveness of Uncaring Assholery really need to have their heads examined or you’re going to be struggling with women until you’re 70 years old.
Women are sick, soulless, insane, freaks who have a pussy that men crave and that’s their #1 weapon….don’t let them use it against you my brothers.
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Question: If you find a woman who doesn’t seem at all interested in you being an asshole, does it help to later go into asshole mode just to keep the passion burning?
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For the guys in LTR or marriage, here is a good example of the right application of A-hole game. It’s for when your girl starts bitching at you on the phone about something.
(Yes, even if your game is tight and your girl is sweet, women get PMSs, and per Dave from Hawaii’s classic post last month, women shit test, even after many years of being together)
– She calls your cell phone, bitches at you about someting.
– You hang up the cell phone. Don’t say anything, just hang it up, while she’s in mid-sentence.
– She calls back, bitches more
– You hang up the cell phone.
– She calls again, and by this time, if she loves you and doesn’t just consider you a Chump Provider Beta, her voice will sound slightly hesitant, and she might even try to suppress a giggle. But of course she sends out a trial baloon of possibly bitching again…
– You tell her in a cocky/funny way “uh-oh – I’m about to go through a bad connection area again!” and say it in a way that makes it obvious that you’re about to hang up.
– She breaks into laughter and completely forgets that she was upset about something three minutes earlier.
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“Why do women love assholes? Quickie answer: Sexy Sons hypothesis.”
Isn’t this a tautological argument, though?
You’re saying that women love assholes because they are sexy, and want to breed with sexy assholes to have sexy asshole sons?
So it’s a circular proposition?
That still doesn’t answer the question of what is it about assholes that makes them so sexy to women in the first place.
Sociobiology would say that there has to be some kind of evolutionary competitive advantage to being an asshole.
What is it?
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Did the au pair have a GNP?
Peter
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A few years ago a girl I was dating got hit by a car while we were out on a Tuesday night. As she attempted to drag her battered body out of the street I looked down at her and said “Hurry up bitch, we’re gonna lose our table because of you”. I had a threesome with her and a hot nurse that night in the hospital.
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Only high status males got away with acting like assholes in the smaller tribes that existed before our modern civilization?
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“she spreads whenever I want because I don’t demand it everyday.”
Well, what if you did demand it everyday?
I once dated a girl who told me outright that she would have sex with me whenever I wanted to, regardless of her own mood. She never initiated, but whenever I did, she was ALWAYS into it.
Isn’t it better to have her operate on your schedule, rather than you on hers?
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Barney Rubble – dude, that was wrong, I think I just ruined my monitor with the coffee I sprayed all over it!
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OK, was Fred the archetypal working class alpha and Barney the archetypal beta? Isn’t that the takeaway of the Flinstones?
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Speaking of LTR phone game, I constantly see guys do the same dumb thing. I see it all the time when I ride the commuter train home from work, and a guy is having a brief call in his cell phone with his wife or girlfriend. When the call ends, they all quickly mumble either “loveyou” (if he says it first) or “loveyoutoo” if she says it first.
Dude, don’t turn an “I love you” into a “Roger-Out”!
And last time you checked, did she marry a man or a parrot?
Have the balls, and the sense of fun, to reply with a cocky, deliberately-enounciated Jack Nicholsonesque “I didn’t ask” or with a “I love spending time with you” if she gets the allusion to Ross in “Friends,” or something that doesn’t cheapen a man’s declaration of love.
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Like so many areas in life being invested in a particular outcome makes you weak. Great opportunities will present themselves but you need to be open and adaptable to be able to exploit them.
Sexy son hypothesis is dead on the money IMO. A philandering son can father countless children, whereas a female offspring or a beta have limited potential. This is why in hard times a woman is more likely to carry a male offspring to term but spontaneously abort a female offspring.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/sitbv3/reader?asin=1560258489&pageID=S09T&checkSum=BUCxRJ2p5oIDlCfRFs/O81SsQ%204VtrTHEKKqxD6u1bo=#
This too is why women are more likely to conceive with the asshole. Carried to an extreme, women are even more likely to conceive in an instance of rape (not that I condone this). While a rapist is an SOB, if his son behaves in like fashion her genes get to hitchhike and garner the benefit.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/sitbv3/reader?asin=1560258489&pageID=S09T&checkSum=BUCxRJ2p5oIDlCfRFs/O81SsQ%204VtrTHEKKqxD6u1bo=
http://alphadominance.com/
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I like to look at couples that seem happy and one of the #1 things I notice is that the men are not assholes. As usual roissy knows diddly squat about real happiness; only achieving anal sex with insecure women.
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Joe T.
That still doesn’t answer the question of what is it about assholes that makes them so sexy to women in the first place.
Sociobiology would say that there has to be some kind of evolutionary competitive advantage to being an asshole.
What is it?
Like much of the advice in the seduction community, the proposed effect is but a surface reflection of the proximate cause.
For instance, the old “play hard to get” gambit works, not because there is some mysterious brain chemical in women causing them to lust for distant men, but because high-status men typically have led very busy lives. The distance is a *proxy* for their high-value lives.
Or: Social Proof. Again, there is nothing mysterious about it. Historically, high-value males were in constant demand. They had their pick of the litter when they weren’t banging the whole litter. In modern times, a man need only be seen in the presence of other females (platonic – no actual copulation necessary), for his target to have her buttons pushed. Again, the social proof is just a marker for (assumed) higher-value.
Roissy’s asshole theory is the same. Historically, men with lots of options in life can afford to break the social norms that were meant to be obeyed by lesser men. In a modern woman’s mind these norms are so ingrained that the mere fact of a man (ANY man) breaking them triggers the same attraction switches AS IF he were a high-status male.
Of course, if one does not actually possess high-value traits, this theory only works up to a point. Reality can only be cheated for so long.
It’s always unpleasant to discover you have misjudged your place on the food chain.
I’m often amused when I read discussions in the seduction community and the theorizing that goes into why this or that technique did or didn’t work for this or that individual. The tortured reasoning that some of those guys engage in to avoid the inescapable reality of sexual market value…
Some men just ARE better than others. No changing that.
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sara, you’re an idiot.
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It’s kind of a zen sort of problem where the way to be successful with women is to not to try to be successful and being an asshole is a way to externally signal that you aren’t trying. But I don’t think it is the only way or the best way.
To codify my point I think there are two axes one of independence/autonomy and dependence/deference and one of kindness and cruelty. Women are attracted to men primarily on the basis of their independence and autonomy the man can be cruel or kind and it will not make a huge amount of difference in how attracted the woman will be to him. Kindness is compatible with this independence. If you want to be kind to a woman or to anyone not because it will make her think better of you, but because you enjoy kindness, you can do it.
A lot of game is system for signaling this sort of independence refusal to be judged, but there is a point beyond game (which I am definitely not at all the time) where you can actually not worry about what a woman thinks of you and do things because they please you and you can be kind and enjoy an easy unselfconscious comfort with beautiful women that feels more natural, more like the way things should be. It also makes me a like women a lot more.
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I’m often amused when I read discussions in the seduction community and the theorizing that goes into why this or that technique did or didn’t work for this or that individual. The tortured reasoning that some of those guys engage in to avoid the inescapable reality of sexual market value…
Some men just ARE better than others. No changing that.
There is an old joke, which has become a lot less funny in the past year, that banks are in the business of lending money to people who don’t need loans. And so it is with Game. The men who have the personality types to successfully apply Game by and large don’t need it in the first place. In contrast, the introverted nerds who are most in need of dating help often don’t have the ability to apply it.
Peter
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Tupac – damn good reasoning there! A plus in SocioBio!
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Hey Roissy, thanks. I’m looking forward to this series.
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Yes Sara, we get it. Nothing about game would EVER work on YOU!
You’re too brilliant, smart and beautiful to EVER be “manipulated” and that any of us men that even want to think about discussing “game” are all just insecure assholes for which no REAL WOMAN such as yourself would ever have anything to do with!
Perhaps Roissy could just make you’re last post an autotext that automatically includes that as the first response to show up on every thread about game, as you are just going to post some variation of that anyways.
PA – Funny you should bring up the hang up the cell phone thing and the commuter train conversations…
Once had my wife call me up while I was on the bus and started ripping into me…I told her I don’t talk on my cellphone while on the bus because it’s rude and inconsiderate to the other passengers to let them hear my private conversations, especially if it’s her bitching so loudly that everyone nearby can hear her…than I promptly hung up on her, and turned my phone off so she couldn’t call me back.
The nearby ladies on the bus looked at me with their jaws agape, a man chuckled and another gave me the thumbs up.
by the time I got home, she had calmed down and acted like nothing had happened…and she no longer tries to call me when she knows I’m commuting.
I do have to add though, that in a LTR, you can’t be an asshole ALL the time.
Well timed moments of assholerly will assure that your relationship will not sink into stagnation…but a constant, daily existence of assholery will eventually backfire — if you care about making it work, that is.
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Peter:
This is definitely true. There are some exceptions, though. Yours truly, for instance.
I’m a natural alpha, but grew up very liberal (politically and culturally). Starting in college I pulled mad pussy… at the little hippie school I went to I was about the only guy there who was in-shape and stood up straight. But one serious case of one-itis did me in, and when she finally left me I went on a skid. The problem was, I was so fully brainwashed by the prevailing feminist culture that I somehow believed that it HAD to be my fault and that I lost a good woman (and she was a good woman) due to being too alpha, when in fact I had gone soft beta.
When I had been coming from my natural place of strength, my “liberated”, PC, feminist outlook just helped me rack up the notches (in that environment, it was a given, I was oh so sensitive, you see). But once I had been exposed to a little bitch-kryptonite, the same outlook was absolutely murdering my game. And I really believed it, I think. Suddenly I was coming from a place of weakness, and I couldn’t for the life of me figure it out. I still got laid, but not as high quality and not nearly the same variety. Instead I drank more. Throughout all this, I kept my “nice guy” ways, or tried to. In fact, in retrospect, it’s when I got fed up and said “fuck it” that the pussy bright-spots happened.
I’m older now, and back to being my natural self, but minus the delusions. This blog and other sites have been a huge help for me, pointing out to me my own alpha behavior from my olden days and my own indoctrination into beta-tude and feminism. Roissy’s is particularly good because he can actually write and he’s less of a fucking cheeseball than a lot of the bullet-point overtanned douchey stuff. But anyway, I suppose I would have pulled out of my slide eventually … but this shit has saved me years of bafflement, years that I’m now spending trying to pound every hot asian chick in the five boroughs. Life is good!
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“It’s always unpleasant to discover you have misjudged your place on the food chain.”
This point has been made time and again in this blog. And the perpetual answer is: game improves your place in the food chain. It is like losing weight for women.
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I’ve never been that big a fan of the asshole game myself.
The aloof/uncaring aspect of Roissy’s equation is something that has resonated better with me. I don’t need the snarls or the looks of disappointment. It’s more work than I want to put into it.
However, a good case of whatever’s and moving on gives me about 95% success rate.
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@ Daniel –
It sounds as if you already had some pretty decent skills. Game helped you adapt to a changed environment, rather than helping you get started in the first place. My point is that a man with very poor skills to start with isn’t going to get much benefit from Game. For example, the prototypical pathologically introverted nerd who plays WoW in mom’s basement 18 hours a day and would sooner stare into the midday sun for 20 minutes than make a second’s eye contact with another person. He really needs help, but Game is beyond his ability to apply.
Peter
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Well, the sexy son is the ultimate reason. It is the underlying principle that hardwired certain behavioral patterns and attraction switches into the female brain: Fuck men who fuck a lot of women.
But the proximate reasons (the resulting brain processes leading to what women experience) why assholes are hot are even more interesting. Here is a list adding to roissy’s indifference:
minor reasons:
– masculinity (high testosterone makes natural assholes)
– confidence and assertiveness (really just synonyms for ballsy asshol-ish risk-loving sociopathic behavior)
– adventure and excitement (see “ugly” truth below)
– drama (women love endlessly discussing the guys they sleep with)
– unattainability (this one is BIG since it reverses the value-compliance system that rules the mating market)
– unemotional, unattached and un-needy (what roissy said)
– social proofed to the roof since all other women want them, too (i.e. the sexy son factor)
major reason (the ugly truth):
– imagine you get orgasms from being called a “whore” and “dirty cum slut” while penetrating you doggy style. what do you think would feel better – if the person calling you a whore really means it or is just your nice boyfriend taking on a persona?
Note to anony, maria, laura and all the other all females on the board – before you even think about a reply:
We know that you think that assholes are “just” one night stand material. This does not lower the value of asshole game in the least. It is women in their 30’s who think marriage would be great (because certainly it is for them), while most men like pussy – and lots of different kinds of it. So, please drop that “you might get me to bed with you, but then I would leave you” attitude. The only person crying the morning after are you guys. A wise man once said, prostitutes do not get paid for sex, prostitutes get paid for leaving after sex. Is that so hard to understand?
Plus, if a man really wants a relationship it is still best to be an asshole at first. He can then switch to lovey-dovey and become a “higher beta”.
This satisfies the female romantic notion of beta-izing an alpha male and comes naturally with the nature of shit tests. Shit tests never end – just start failing them and you will get lowered form alpha to alpha in her eyes. You can turn almost any same night lay into fuck buddies or more by becoming nice and thus giving those girls the hope of having accidentally fucked a nice guy during a drunk night out.
Note that the inverse is not possible. Once you get branded a beta, there is almost no way back. So use with caution.
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gig:
This point has been made time and again in this blog. And the perpetual answer is: game improves your place in the food chain. It is like losing weight for women.
Game absolutely improves your place on the food chain.
But your place on the food chain is determined by other things in addition to game.
Problems happen when your game overreaches your spot in the pecking order.
I see game techniques as existing on a curve. At the lower end you have a set of techniques that might better be classified as “self-improvement”. In the middle you have shrewd psychological understanding of female behavior. At the top end you have extremely calibrated psychological manipulation (calibrated for the social context). These latter techniques have small margins of error.
Being able to tune in to the subtle cues which determine who’s who and what’s what in any social situation is just the sort of skill that is lacking in the vast majority of nerds who are drawn to the seduction community.
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So, would there be anyway to act like an asshole that gets a girl to get an aids test? You can never tell, you know.
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You’re saying that women love assholes because they are sexy, and want to breed with sexy assholes to have sexy asshole sons? So it’s a circular proposition?
Yes, it is somewhat circular. It is the very basis of runaway selection. Look it up.
Peacocks got a big tail, because female peacocks like it. And since other female peacocks get the same hots for the dude with the big tail, he can freely disseminate his semen. Just like the assholes in the club down your street.
The female peacocks do not really care about that tail.
They care about the semen spreading. The more semen “their” peacock spreads, the more offspring he has. Getting offspring from an individual with a lot of offspring is one way to guarantee that your offspring has “good genes”. It simply becomes more likely that your son has the same tail and therefore will be seen as a semen spreader by future females and have more offspring himself.
Asshole game = way of women to detect semen spreading. A peacock tail would be funnier for all of us.
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Peter: True dat.
Tupac: I like your curve analogy. That’s very insightful.
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This is an important point.
Game is best for guys who were mis-educated to underperform, and in today’s society, that’s LOTS of guys.
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sara trolled again
I like to look at couples that seem happy and one of the #1 things I notice is that the men are not assholes.
For the 198078. time: No one here is interested in what you are interested in – successful long term relationships.
As usual roissy knows diddly squat about real happiness; only achieving anal sex with insecure women.
Behold the ugly truth: achieving anal sex with lots of women is a guarantee for any man’s happiness!
Why do you think roissy has all this following? Because these men try to find a way to get in the drag of a relationship with a hippie chic like you (or one of the other fatties who post unqualified blurbs sometimes)?
Go back and dream about your feminized nice husband who doesn’t even fantasize about fucking several women up the ass – during one session. He doesn’t need to know about your past, your fantasies – or what you do on a “girl’s night out”.
You sure found your source of “happiness”.
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I like to make sure to never put the used condom in the trash. When the girl finds it she will get mad but then be reminded of my dick power.
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Outstanding work, Dr. Deepdick.
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11minutes:
Peacocks got a big tail, because female peacocks like it.
More precisely, the female peacocks like it because the ability of the male to support such a costly adaptation (costly in the sense of making him more visible to predators) indicates he has stronger, heartier genes.
Handicap Principle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_principle
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“I like to look at couples that seem happy and one of the #1 things I notice is that the men are not assholes.”
*snork*
I had one example like this, and I used to tout it as the one couple who gave me faith in humanity’s essential goodness. They’re now divorced; she was out sitting on a big bag of dicks. My asshole friends are still married. Alas, illusions of my youth.
” As usual roissy knows diddly squat about real happiness; only achieving anal sex with insecure women.”
What do you know about “real happiness?” You’re single!
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Being an asshole is an advantage in some situations/times, and a disadvantage in others.
In a time/place/society where a premium is placed on male cooperation, being an asshole is a serious disadvantage. Examples would be the military in combat, or various intense technical projects (Manhattan Project) and so on. When that’s the path to social/economic success, women will select AWAY from assholes and generally did until 1965 or so.
The steady trends now have been to assholes because male cooperation has been unimportant in social/economic success. Instead of areas where intense male cooperation are the hallmarks of survival let alone success, it’s ruthless one-upmanship: law, entertainment, media, as part of the “Gentry” of the coastal elites in “knowledge work” where one-upmanship is constant and status rules.
Women are adaptabile. They are quite capable of selecting AWAY from assholes if the social conditions make that a requirement. Now acting like an asshole means you are signaling that you are of high status in the entertainment/media/law world.
Context is important, if society changed rapidly in ten years women would avoid assholes if that signified “loser” who would never get anywhere other than a lengthy prison stretch. A lot of female selection is due to about forty years of uninterrupted good times and their rapid ascent in status/power/independence, along with economic shifts to non-productive “priesthoods” like Media or Law or Entertainment.
Think Ari Gold from Entourage. In 1962 America, he would have been tagged “loser” and women would have shunned him. Now he’s a winner and Joe Nice Guy is the “loser.” But that can change in a lasting, deep depression. Though there is likely to be a big cultural lag over time.
Tupac Chopra is quite correct IMHO. Of course, taken to it’s logical conclusion if the same effects (status markers of asshole-behavior) hold true even during a recession/depression, i.e. selecting for Ari Gold, that means that ONLY Ari Golds will get married. AND that all men will compete to be the biggest assholes they can. The failure of guys like Mystery and Strauss to hold relationships tends to reinforce Chopra’s point, but also confirm that PUA at best holds out passing sex with women temporarily fooled as to status, but no LTR or marriage.
Which again gets to the point: almost all guys acting like assholes, and a large pool of unattached men. But hey, what could possibly go wrong?
Larger evolutionary trends depend on lots of male cooperation, lower testosterone, more deadly/effective tools, etc. Less Ari Gold and more Robert Oppenheimer, in other words. Some societies will figure this out. This includes shaping women’s preferences.
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More precisely, the female peacocks like it because the ability of the male to support such a costly adaptation
Tupac, it is not that easy. There is ample discussion about this among sociobiologists.
In theory, it should be enough for a female to detect mating success (sex son prediction). This can lead to runaway selection. The peacock tail may or may not indicate increased fitness due to a handicap, but the fact of the matter remains that this is what indicates his mating success.
What I am saying is that “assholish” behavior might act as an indicator of mating success and shortcut the handicap display. It is interesting to think about high testosterone as handicap, tough – given the dangers associated with it.
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PA said…
– She breaks into laughter and completely forgets that she was upset about something three minutes earlier.
Her checking her own bad behavior usually doesn’t happen quite that fast. Usually, she suspects she over-stepped but it takes time for her to admit it. You’ve got yet one more shit-test to pass once you walk in the door at home. Your response will confirm her own diagnosis:
Her: “Why did you hang up on me a minute ago?!”
You: “Huh? [acting surprised and like the event occurred five years ago. Pause.] I always hang up on people who are rude. [Quickly followed by…] Hey, what’s for dinner?”
The sex will be there that night.
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A few years ago, I was under deadline at work. Two younger female colleagues were in my office, helping me get the job done. The phone rang, and I knew from the caller ID it was my wife. I picked up the phone and said, as I often did when I was under deadline, “You have 10 seconds.” It wasn’t a macho display….just something I did to let her know I was busy. The stress of the previous few days had already turned one of my colleagues into a starry-eyed admirer, but the way answered the phone pushed her over the top. After I hung up, she turned to the other woman and blurted, “Wouldn’t Thor make a great father?!”
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Most women who like uncaring asshats have childhood based psychological damage! Their dad was probably an uncaring asshat alcoholic, and they are seeking these damaged guys in their adulthood in order to try and “fix them”. If a woman chronically chooses bad men, then she just has issues. Dodge this!!!
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Good points whiskey – I think the trend is beginning to reverse a bit with economic hard times now and in to the foreseeable future, with selfishness/asshole behavior becoming less prevalent and more cooperation becoming the norm. Otherwise you are gonna see times get even rougher as everyone watches their own back and steps all over people just for their own advantage – this will only lead to further civilizational collapse in the long run, which is good for no one.
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I saw this on the Tool Academy last night. The guy was booted for being cold and derisive to his girlfriend on that episode….he walks outside, and the girl has the opportunity to love him or leave him. he doesn’t even apologize, he puts it on her to decide whatever SHE wants. Making her choose to leave him should she so desire….
his face belies only a lack of concern and irritation at having lost the show, not potentially losing her. she leaves with him. in the limo, she has to beg him to say that he loves her, he does so, with the caveat: “I love you, there. Is that what you wanted to hear?
genuine asshole game affirmed….ON NATIONAL TELEVISION, knowing that her friends/family will see later on.
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Turkeybaster – u don’t know anything. that’s like the “ALL strippers were abused” theory. it empirically DOES NOT COMPUTE. it’s an easy explanation to explain why hot women have overlooked you and your beta bretheren. accept the reality. watch tool academy. learn.
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“If a woman chronically chooses bad men, then she just has issues.”
So that’s the new excuse/rationalization these days? You can do better…
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@Gentlemen, esp. eleven:
Why do men like b…? I do not doubt the gist of the comments above; it works as well on men. My husband states, “you are a difficult woman to love.”
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People like to push other people around to get what they want.
Men push men around with physical force, money, or psychologically. Women push men around psychologically, as they are weaker, and poorer (on average).
If you want to not get pushed around by men, you need to be strong, have fuck-you money, or not give a fuck.
If you want to not get pushed around by women, you need to not give a fuck too.
There are three responses to someone pushing you around psychologically: passive, assertive, aggressive.
Passive is beta, and weak, and does not work long term. You will hate yourself. “Sorry honey, won’t happen again”
Assertive and Aggressive are alpha.
Assertive is more cocky-funny, like James Bond, and aggressive is alpha asshole. Assertive is harder and takes more patience and self-control.
Asshole alpha works great short term, but will make her fucking hate you long term. “Shut the fuck up, whore”
I would say the best strategy is aim for assertive long term, but use aggressive when you can’t be assertive (no time to come up with something funny say), and possibly asshole game at the beginning when negging is required with a hot babe.
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@ Joe T,
“Well, what if you did demand it everyday?
I once dated a girl who told me outright that she would have sex with me whenever I wanted to, regardless of her own mood. She never initiated, but whenever I did, she was ALWAYS into it.
Isn’t it better to have her operate on your schedule, rather than you on hers?”
I’m not on her schedule about sex, or anything else for that matter. I could and would receive sex everyday if I demanded it from my wife, but I want her on my schedule so as to always keep her guessing, off balance, and to subdue her weapons of control.
What is “assholery” but just another term for being a man?
Now I’m not going to say I don’t do favors for my wife or talk to her in a demeaning way. No fucking way. I like to call my “nice guy” acts like deposits in the bank. Build up a decent sum and then call in the chips when your buddy calls at the last minute with tickets to the Ranger game or a guys night out or that weekend fishing trip upstate…which happens to be near the college bars where horny chicks are out on the prowl and you’re 200 miles from home 😉
When my wife (or past girlfriends) decided to start bitching over nonsense, I usually go into laughing fits before stating that I don’t give a fuck. I typically don’t like doing that but these cunts need to be managed and respect the force of a man when force is demanded.
Guns N’ Roses had a song called Dust and Bones where they sang, “Sometimes these women seem to rip you right in two/ but only if you let ’em get to you…..”
Don’t let them get to ya!
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good points, whiskey
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Is Roissy’s example, one of being an as…. ,or is it just being not completely available? I think the principle at play is that we all want what we can not (completely) have.
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Why do men like b…? I do not doubt the gist of the comments above; it works as well on men. My husband states, “you are a difficult woman to love.”
I guess what you allude to is that I said, asshole game is sexual. Women like being dominated in the bedroom, and that just won’t work with a squirmish, nice, sweet kiss-y, cuddly-y beta provider guy.
I wouldn’t exclude the same sexual reason for why some guys like bitches. A sexual relationship needs a masculine and a feminine pole. But, that can be done by two women, two men, and a man and a woman with either of them being more masculine and the other more feminine.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt that your husband is not into your domination.
In that case, note that the sexual turn on was just one of the reasons I listed why asshole-treatment works so well.
Some laws of attraction work across genders. Being cold, unattached and a “challenge” will keep guys and girls happy and wanting for more.
It’s like my grandma’s best kept secret: Her apple pie recipe. When she died, people asked her to give away why it always tasted so good. She smiled and said: “I made sure there never was enough to satiate you.”
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More precisely, the female peacocks like it because the ability of the male to support such a costly adaptation (costly in the sense of making him more visible to predators) indicates he has stronger, heartier genes.
Seems like my original reply got lost.
I am a biologist with a background in sociobiology, and when I graduated there were many studies coming out obsessing about that.
Basically, you can predict that females just want the long tail, and since all females want it, you end up with increased fitness – and longer and longer tails. In that case, it is conceivable that the longer tails are no handicap at all (runaway selection).
The handicap hypothesis predicts that males with a shorter tail fare better, so scientists went out cutting tails and stuff. the results were not very conclusive at the time. I am too lazy to check what the current state of the art is.
But, my point is – assholish behavior can be a runaway selection trait and have no handicap associated with it (though it is interesting to muse about the higher risk and danger that bad boys are exposed to).
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anony:
Why do men like b…? I do not doubt the gist of the comments above; it works as well on men.
I submit that his phenomenon is the same as I outlined above.
If a woman is hot, she can get away with a lot. Including being a bitch.
What men (beta men, anyway) like about her is the hotness, not the bitchiness. They’re just desperate enough to put up with the poor treatment.
As Roissy has pointed out before, woman can’t use game in the way men do, because what good does it do for a fattie to play hard to get? No one wants to get her in the first place!
Personally, I’m not terribly fond of contrarian, “sassy” women when I’m in the mood for anything other than casual sex. I like my GF’s to be feminine and (relatively) submissive.
My husband states, “you are a difficult woman to love.”
From the way you come across on this blog, I don’t doubt it for a second.
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Turkey — MOST women chronically choose asshole men. Including women with good fathers. It’s innate based on current social criteria for success. I.E. asshole = Uber Lawyer, or Ari Gold. The greater the tool, the more success he has with a wide range of women.
Believe me, if men were not successful with assholery, they would drop it quickly. Sadly, it works like gangbusters.
Which of course leads men to act like assholes all the time, particularly around women. This would include not giving up seats, cutting in line, other attributes of assholery.
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roissy:
What is supposed to be false about that claim?
The whole reason why this scenario occured in the first place is because you were being an asshole. So I guess the real lesson here is: don’t be an asshole. Not that it really makes any difference in this case since the girl was desperate enough to be with you even through you were blatantly cheating on her.
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11minutes:
But, my point is – assholish behavior can be a runaway selection trait and have no handicap associated with it (though it is interesting to muse about the higher risk and danger that bad boys are exposed to).
I believe that. What is being selected for is risk-taking behavior, i.e., courage. Of course, “civilized” people will place moral labels on various actions depending on whether they consider those actions anti-social or not, but a criminal robbing a bank and a cop attempting to stop him are both exhibiting the same fundamental trait. If women were genetically engineered to shun violent men, the human race might have died out long ago.
Speaking of the handicap principle, I’ve said before that the allure of the Magnanimous Alpha (as several females here go on about) is just the handicap principle in action.
The problem though is men see women rapturously singing the praises of Dudley-Do-Right and mistakenly think women want a beta. The truth is that the woman are imagining Dudley as a 6-foot, square-jawed and broad shouldered financial success who is socially dominant and the center of attention. Only THEN do they start to coo about his “niceness.”
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Speaking of the handicap principle, I’ve said before that the allure of the Magnanimous Alpha (as several females here go on about) is just the handicap principle in action.
Interesting thought (not unlike this theory:
http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm).
I did a quick google search and it seems that men with high testosterone are at higher risk, indeed – but the health problems low testosterone outweighs the benefits.
This would be slight counter evidence, similar to the birds doing equally well with longer or shorter tails (i.e. there is no handicap, just sexual selection).
The other counter evidence is social proof.
Social proof is the number one attractor.
Enough social proof gets even an omega laid.
This goes well with other female’s attraction being what is selected for, and speaks against the risk taking behavior selection theory.
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To all you reactors to my comments….save your collective breath. I care as much about your opinion as you do about mine. Save your time as well, you may need it for your next fuckathon.
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Tupac — risk taking individualist behavior has it’s place. But generally Western society has held it in contempt. It’s interesting that the “outlaw” or rebel heroes dating back to Robin Hood all create their own leadership and followers based on their kindness, consideration, patronage, loyalty, etc. The Spartans held the barbarians to the north, who had great individual courage, in contempt and believed by holding the line in place in the phalanx would simply pincushion to death any opponents. As opposed to individualized beserkers.
The Western way of War depends on mutual cooperation and trust in shock direct battle, with the importance of staying with one’s fellows. A very successful model against all the threats from both the barbarian north and the tyrannical east. Female selection held for courage under fire as a model of loyalty and group identity (stay in the line) not individual beserkerism or what have you. It’s again fairly unique (Japan was more fanatical loyalty to one man / leader not the group) and depended on … female selection among the interplay of culture and success.
Moreover, the longing for the “primitive” in some sense stems from the relative (in some ways) non violence and “flatness” associated with the hunter-gatherer lifestyle. No man could be a “King” and amass a harem because there were not enough resources to pay/give patronage to enforcers. Meanwhile wars while constant and bloody and interspersed with personal feuds, did not amount to the carnage and scale of clashes like Karnak constructed by agricultural societies. Women seemed to select for guys who were aggressive enough, but not “too” aggressive (to provoke either a spear from a fellow tribesman or an enemy) since even the best hunter could come up empty and would need bailing out cooperatively from someone else.
It’s when agricultural societies, and particularly Western European societies produced a group-cooperative and enemy-aggressive response to the threats from the East and North that female selection changed, towards the sort of “Knightly Ideal” of a guy who would be tough, but loyal, to his pals in the line and herself.
THAT selection seems now tilted towards extreme individualism.
Sara — it does not matter about your, mine, or anyone else’s opinions. If enough women sleep with jerks, rest assured men will treat you generally in a jerk-like manner ESPECIALLY if other women they wish to impress are around. So don’t expect courteous behavior, rather the opposite. Since that’s what is selected for.
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11minutes:
This goes well with other female’s attraction being what is selected for, and speaks against the risk taking behavior selection theory.
Probably, but this does raise a chicken-and-egg problem.
If women are selecting on the basis of what other women are doing, what are those other women basing their judgements on?
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Now you’re making sense, Sara!
Right on!
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So true. Any naysayers? TRY IT! It is so excruciatingly, devastatingly true. Welcome… to the real world.
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Sebastian Flyte:
Welcome… to the real world.
LOL
Roissy should have that vid pinned to his front page.
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If women are selecting on the basis of what other women are doing, what are those other women basing their judgements on?
You could assume the following scenario:
Take a set of women who get introduced to a group of guys.
In the beginning some women will find some guys (randomly) more attractive than others. They do not agree on who if the most attractive guy.
The attraction of some women will cause other women to be more attracted to the same guy. This way random fluctuations will get amplified to macroscopic differences.
The more women get attracted to the same guy, the more other women will join in. Eventually, there is a group decision on who is the most attractive guy.
To me this does sound like exactly what’s going on at bars and clubs.
This is why it is hard to get a same night lay when showing up late at a bar, and ridiculously easy when you show up with pivots and banter your way around the bar.
Life in general will produce “naturals” this way, because some guys will get female attraction early on and this gets amplified to ridiculous levels as they get older.
I am not denying that women – desperate for clues as to what the other women like – will look at a man’s body language, height, handsomeness and even his crotch (pretty much in this order) to gauge him up.
But when you ask girls why they like tall men, they typically reply “I want to look up”/”feel secure” etc., which makes you wonder why short/petite girls have the same preference. It is at that point that women often admit that it is more about what the other girls think…
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Whiskey, you make great points as usual but in discussions of these sort you always have to keep in mind that women (or people in general, or society as a whole for that matter) are constantly vacillating between their frontal-cortex “shoulds” and hindbrain “wants”. I’m not so sure that evolution proceeds linearly from the latter to the former. I think it’s more of a chaotic, messy dance between the two, forevermore.
“The principle activity of Nature, like some eternal frustrated artist, is destruction.” – M. de Sade
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sara says
And if you looked more closely you would see that women is happily banging an asshole while the nice guy who looks after her does not get any.
The female fantasy, what women really want, is that they tame the cruel brutal unsupportive indifferent alpha male, and turn him into a kindly supportive nice guy beta. But having succeeded in beta-izing him, they rapidly forget that he was ever an alpha, and try to do it over with a new alpha male. For a man to avoid this forgetfulness he has to crack the whip every now and then.
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james
Case in point; Jessica Alba and Cash Warren. Do you really believe she’d be fucking an asshole on the side. Dream on….
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I’m just not seeing it. Most of the successful assholes I know are really invested in their game. They don’t seem to let themselves believe they are, but they are actually very caring. When a relationship ends, they often rationalize it by talking about all the other pussy they can now get.
In contrast, I’m a genuine uncaring asshole. I find female games too unattractive and annoying to actively date, and so I don’t give a shit about most all attractive women. Despite how in-shape I am, how good I look or my expensive cars, I only occasionally get hit on (far less often than the successful secretly-caring assholes I know).
In reference to one of Sara’s posts, happiness research shows that men are the most happy in stable, long-term relationships. I’m not sure how this compares to “alpha” men with lots of sex partners (that is a very small percentage of the population to study, after all); if anyone has links to any studies comparing men in monogamous relationships to “players”, I’d like to see it.
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> if anyone has links to any studies comparing men
> in monogamous relationships to “players”, I’d like
> to see it.
I second that request. I guess I could pick either one right now so I need to figure out what’s best. I’ve never been a “player” but I think I could probably get away with it. I just don’t think I’d get as much satisfaction out of short term relationships as most of the other guys here in the Roissy locker room. Perhaps I’m a wussy for thinking that. I think it would be best to use an “alpha” mentality to get the most out of an LTR.
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Did the au pair have a GNP?
Peter
Uh, excuse me. I believe you mean Glorious Naturalized Pelt.
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“soul of a woman was created below”
——Led Zeppelin, “Dazed and Confused”.
Roissy apparently likes both Rachel Weiz and Led Zeppelin. His tastes are unquestionably good.
Ladies certainly reward men who can “take them or leave them” with a “devil-may-care” attitude. Then they have the audacity to complain about the same men.
As Roosh has pointed out on his poignant blog from time to time, whatever a woman says do, do just the opposite. It seems to reward more oft than naught.
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sara I
I like to look at couples that seem happy and one of the #1 things I notice is that the men are not assholes. As usual roissy knows diddly squat about real happiness; only achieving anal sex with insecure women
I agree Sara. I have no idea where the guys here are meeting the type of women who call them so they can fuss about something random. SMH, I’m a woman and if a guy does that to me I’m hanging up the phone. If my parents (father never fuss or argues) call me to fuss, I’m hanging up the phone. Grandma and great grandma can get it too.
A few of my rules:
It’s not my job to make another human being happy. I treat everyone with respect and leave it at that. I refuse to accept someone’s misplaced anger.
Go scream at your parents or former lovers who made you the miserable emotional deadbeat person you are today. This isn’t about being an asshole guys, this is about protecting yourself emotionally. Don’t take too much shit from anyone!
*steps off podium*
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Jerrdog- Perhaps I’m a wussy for thinking that.
Nope, your just you. Everyone is different. Whiskey mentioned that he doesn’t like watching p0%n.That doesn’t make Whiskey less of a man. Hello(where are you?) and I(80″s stuff) like to watch p0*n at times so what does this mean? Are we less womanly or manlier because we like it? Nope.
At the end of the day, you know you better than the folks at MTV, Maxim, BET or SWPL crowd. Don’t let people make you feel less than because you don’t fit their definition of who you should be.
*pardon my femaleness fellas*
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chic
There are certainly plenty of asshole posers here or asshole wannabes and roissy is the one to teach them how to be bigger insecure assholes. This is worse than reality television, and since I’m having the cable pulled next Tuesday, a little sashay through roissy’s anal filled blog probably won’t do too much damage. It’s one thing to read about and quite another to be in roissy’s actual physical vicinity. *shudders in disgust*
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As Roosh has pointed out on his poignant blog from time to time, whatever a woman says do, do just the opposite. It seems to reward more oft than naught.
I’ll do what they say, and I’ll get the warm hugs that you’ll never get. 🙂
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…asshole posers … asshole wannabes … teach them how to be bigger … assholes … worse … damage … *shudders in disgust*
a beta is disgusting to women.
a beta pretending to be alpha is worse – it’s epic betrayal in evolutionary terms.
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Uncaring asshole = success with women.
Caring asshole = failure with women.
i don’t think this is necessarily true. an uncaring asshole, if he insults a woman enough, will turn her off. by insult, i don’t mean saying “shut up”, but rather saying stuff like “your outfit looks ugly”, “you suck at X”, being rude to waiters, etc.
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Again Sara, it does not matter if YOU are personally disgusted or not by Roissy and the blog.
The reality: LOTS of women (and let’s be honest, MOST) sleep with jerks and a-holes.
Therefore, men will behave like jerks and a-holes. They will particularly behave like jerks and a-holes around you to impress other women. Since that gets rewarded.
Roissy pointing this out or not, will not change the behavior. So the next time a guy treats you rudely, cuts in line, walks right past you while you struggle with something, acts like a jerk, just remember: that behavior was encouraged by women sleeping with it.
See VH1’s “Tool Academy.” The tools are there because women find them deeply attractive. After all, the girls could have just dumped them immediately and found a “nice guy.” But they didn’t, they wanted the tool, just slightly less tool-ish. This is the macro social reality behind the aggregation of individual choices.
I personally don’t like guys acting like tools. But I understand why they do. Which is that women sleep with them because they act like tools.
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Save your time as well, you may need it for your next fuckathon.
For 99% of the males who comment on this blog, the only “f*ckathon” leads to sore wrists.
Peter
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There is a real slutty/emotional girl at my law school who has already broken up a marriage. She’s decent looking, however. Huge natural breasts.
I already knew she had a bit of attraction to me. We were kissing for the first time at a party and she said, “I’m not going to have sex with you” out of the blue. My response: “do you know someone here who will?” It worked.
A few weeks later, we are out at a party. I ignore her for a good 20 minutes after she arrives. I bump into her anyway and say: “I’m going to ignore you for another hour at least, it will make you more interested in me.” She says: “you’re giving your game away.” My reply: “it will still work.” It did.
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Discernment is of the essence in deploying asshole tactics. A reliable one: When a girl reads a text or takes a call while with you, take her phone and turn it off, even if you’ve just met her. **This doesn’t seem appropriate if there are other people in the conversation. If you’re just a random dude to her, it may come off as creepy.
Once, I had a slut come over, and post-fuck, I left her to sit alone on my bed, and chilled with my bros a floor below, for half an hour. Said to my friends, “shit [laughing to myself], she probably won’t come back after leaving her alone like that, I’m gonna go back upstairs.” She never did come see me after that.
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One of the traits in the Newcastle Personality Assessor (NPA) is Agreeableness.
From the book Personality by Daniel Nettle:
Guess what? People who succeed in business, politics, and the arts tend to be lower in Agreeableness, i.e. nice guys finish last.
There are evolutionary reasons for this. People who are willing to fight for their turf and show aggression are more likely to survive…up to a point. Getting into a lot of fights tends to lower your chances of survival.
There’s a natural ebb and flow of the trait over the generations…at first the low scorers are selected for, but once everyone is willing to fight over nothing, aggression becomes a danger, and higher scorers are selected for.
Anyway, it’s easy to see why women are attracted to assholes, although I think assholes isn’t the correct term.
In my opinion, having firm boundaries and a low tolerance for female bullshit doesn’t make you an asshole. And the occasional willingness to savage an enemy or put a woman in place is part of being a man and a leader.
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This blog is quite entertaining to read, and certainly sheds much light upon a great deal of female psychology and behavior, but I have to say that too much of it is vague generalizations. Not all women fit into these categories. Nor do all men.
I spent my twenties and thirties doing much of what is spoken of here, so I can understand the male desire for unending pussy. But I there is much more to life than all that. At this point in my life I consider myself a retired veteran of the pussy conquests. I still enjoy women, but it is in a slightly different way now, which does not exclude sex though. Trust me when I can tell you that can be a liberating thing too.
I think what many of the male respondents here show is that old fear that we first possessed when when we got that first crush on a girl early on: rejection. A lot of this alpha posing and talk seem to me to be overcompensation for just that. I see a lot of little boys here still scared of the horror of that girl telling them to get lost.
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“This is worse than reality television, and since I’m having the cable pulled next Tuesday….”
If this isn’t on SWPL it really should be… people randomly, apropos of nothing whatsoever, informing others that they don’t watch tv or (even more hilariously) plan to stop watching it. That’s about as insecure as it comes.
Person A: “Do you know who won the game?”
Person B: “Oh, I don’t watch television”
… when, “Um, no, sorry” would suffice. Even funnier when no one brought up or asked anything, but the information is offered anyway.
Awesome!
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joe t,
if you’re interested in the circularity of the sexy-son hypothesis, this might be of interest:
http://stagetwo.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/the-sexually-successful-son-hypothesis/
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“If this isn’t on SWPL it really should be…”
#28 Not Having a TV.
Yep.
Sara,
Convincing job demonstrating that you don’t care what anyone here thinks of your comments by… commenting about what everyone thinks about your comments.
Eh, you’re cute anyway.
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we need to go back and reread gunner’s comment.
i agree that independence is key. so perhaps cruelty is not necessary: we can be kind, but fiercely independent. (i’d say this has worked for me.)
however, caution is advised: kindness can mean easily pulled strings in our hearts — this comes with loss of power and thus attraction.
moreover kindness, but not cruelty can be interpreted as a way of ingratiating oneself. in this sense cruelty is proof of independence. so the challenge for the kind guy is to prove independence in other ways.
so what happens if she perceives your cruelty as manipulative — i.e. indicative of your desire to attract her?
will the female sex module still respond by being attracted?
(my gut says: yes, this rational insight won’t prevent the response.)
well controlled cruelty is also stimulating and controlling her emotions — hard to resist for most women.
in sum, i hope gunner is right — but i have my doubts.
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The last thread got into some fun math. Let’s do some more.
Sara and Roissy can both be right.
Take 100 men and 100 women. You have ten “alphas” among the males and ten “sluts” among the females. All of the sluts fuck all of the alphas, but sluts won’t fuck betas. The betas all marry the non-sluts. Neither alphas nor sluts marry.
So the alphas each have ten partners, because they each had all of the sluts. The sluts each had ten partners. The rest of the population had one partner each.
10*10+90*1 = 190/100 = 1.9
The mean number of partners is 1.9 for both men and women. The median is 1. Of course, the “alphas” in this scenario also conclude that their techniques work universally and that women are just naturally that way.
Now is this a perfect representation of the world? No. Will somebody jump in with some anecdote about the “beta” who got cheated on? Sure, but these anecdotes are just that, anecdotes, selected only because they confirm the biases of the speaker.
My basic hypothesis that follows from my stylized model: Adjusting for factors like age, religion, etc., , men and women with similar partner counts are more likely to marry.
The evidence to falsify that hypothesis, evidence that would be consistent with the tenor of views on this board: Evidence that, adjusting for factors like age, religion, etc., men with more partners are likely to marry women with fewer, if those men get married.
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Another hypothesis from my model: There is a lot of partner overlap among the alphas.
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So the alphas each have ten partners, because they each had all of the sluts. The sluts each had ten partners. The rest of the population had one partner each.
This “casual sex crowd hypothesis” has been empirically disproved some years ago (at least for high school aged kids)..:
“the sexual network at the school created long chains of connections that spread out through the community … One component of the network linked 288 students – more than half of those who were romantically active at the school”
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@Keith,
Your thesis and math are delightful, and consistent with a comment I made earlier , that “the manwhores and sluts are best suited for each other.”
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this asshole stuff is no joke. I dated this girl who felt that I treated her better than any other man. I was surprised when she told me that. Looking back though, I never bought her anything while she bought me stuff. I denied her sex every now and then, especially when she was hot for it. And when I did fuck her, I didn’t stop when it was too much. Kept pounding. I didn’t like any of her interests, though I’m not sure why. And early on, I made sure she called me a jerk like every time I was with her. Sadly, I wasn’t sure how to make her keep her weight in check.
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Sara, you are slow and thick-headed. Stop posting your inanity and put your time into a more worthwhile project like starting your own softcore porn website. I promise I’ll link to it.
Now, see how you just got all wet for me? That’s what we’re talking about. Chicks dig assholes.
I am lucky enough to have discovered this feature of the female brain at a young age, maybe around 16. This was before I had even heard of game or ev psych – I just noticed that my girlfriend would pull away when I treated her well and profess her undying love when I was a dick to her. Since then, it’s been my overwhelming experience that while different girls require different degrees of assholery, they all require it in some form.
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11minutes, read your link. It doesn’t disprove my marriage hypothesis, since the study doesn’t address later marriage patterns.
It’s an interesting picture of sexual networks in a high school.
From the story you linked to: “Most people who are not part of the giant component are either virgins, or couples who have never had sex with anyone except each other.”
So in the evidence you present, we see pairing according to my model.
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keith,
beta cuckoldry is not merely anecdotal. there are a significant percent of births (i think the estimates range from 2% to 10%) where the kid’s DNA doesn’t match the father’s.
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Ben, but how do we know it’s a “beta” being cuckolded?
It could be an alpha who married a slut.
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So Ben, the question: Are men who had more partners before marriage more likely to marry a woman who’ll cheat on them?
My model: Value in the sexual market and value in the marriage market are very segmented.
A man may have high value in the sexual market but low value among women who are in the marriage market. Alphas are smart to avoid marriage, because they won’t tend to attract women who make good mothers.
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John, I have a feeling law school bitches are more receptive to asshole game than others, because they do tend to be pretty bitchy and egotistical. I think they like getting knocked down a peg.
“do you know someone here who will?” I am using that.
Btw, seems like I lucked out in my seating in most of my classes. Im right between this cute bad girl type I think kind of wants me, and this classy, hard-to get type who I want to work on. This could be great or a disaster. more updates to follow.
Well, lucked out is going too far. I know what I’m doing.
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I think there are two axes one of independence/autonomy and dependence/deference and one of kindness and cruelty. Women are attracted to men primarily on the basis of their independence and autonomy the man can be cruel or kind and it will not make a huge amount of difference in how attracted the woman will be to him.
I doubt that. What’s the evidence?
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Keith your spot on. I know a male gynecologist and he says he’s surprised by the number of mature virgins he sees. Mind you they’re usually sub 5s. So I guess its not only men holding their dicks.
There’s a swath of the population just not getting any (and who won’t admit it). So all data comes from a biased group, the alphas and sluts.
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Keith:
Interesting. Also: good call on wanting to get a little less vague about all this. But I’d say the more relevant evidence to falsify your hypothesis (or the thrust behind it) would be evidence that, adjusting for factors like age, religion, etc., men with more partners — more dominant men — are less likely to be cheated on by the women they do marry, regardless of how many partners these women had before (though presumably there would also be some correlation with the number of the women’s previous partners).
Not saying this to contradict anything you just asserted; and I don’t have that evidence here, so your point stands. But I think the distinction is relevant to the discussion.
The key point is that people are very deeply culturally embedded with the idea that women don’t cheat on their men, or that at least “non-sluts” don’t. I know you want to discount anecdotes, and I would second your call for some good hard evidence (I won’t be surprised if someone here can dig it up).
But here is some sort of magnified anecdotal evidence, for the sake of discussion: not all cultures have made this assumption that ours does, that women aren’t inclined to cheat on a beta. Control of a woman’s libido is enforced all over the world, in more strict (fundamentalist Islamic) and less strict (Central American) ways. Our own culture did the same in its own quirky way until the last few generations. Great shaming and sometimes complete loss of family connections (both blood and legal) typically go along with a woman’s unfaithfulness. Proponents of “game” (and also, most evolutionary psychologists, as far as I can tell from my own admittedly journalist interpreted-readings), see women cheating on betas as a much more than anecdotal occurrence.
Feminists will say this is because the unfair double standard just wants to punish women’s freedom while encouraging men’s.
Alphas and clear-eyed betas will say this is the only way to ensure they don’t raise someone else’s child, a problem WOMEN WILL NEVER HAVE and, honestly, I doubt the ability of some women to even really grasp the implications of this fact, simply because they will never encounter it, just like I won’t ever know what it feels like to give birth or have PMS.
And this fear is not paranoia. Evolutionary psychologists will leave the value judgments to the philosophers and merely state that the genetic consequences of a woman cheating on her beta with an alpha can be a HUGE reward for her offspring, and is thus very likely to have evolved. It’s a very simple, Occam’s razor kind of argument at this level. But it seems complex because we aren’t used to thinking this way about women in this culture. But genetics doesn’t care about how we view it. It simply operates according to its own mathematical and biological laws.
It may seem a little odd to worry about it if your woman isn’t having babies, yours or otherwise, but evolutionarily-programmed feelings don’t go away just because we think they are silly; a modern man really doesn’t need to worry that his mate will not be able to provide enough nutrition for the child to survive infancy, and so the desire for big, pert, luscious breasts is “unnecessary.” But, ummmm….
I wish I had the study in hand to point to, and I admit my argument is weaker without it, but let me at least offer this:
For a thorough debunking of the feel-good myth that “purer” “unwesternized” societies don’t regulate female libido,
Derek Freeman and the myth of Margaret Mead.
For a great, serious, and unblinking look at evo psych, including the extreme logicality of female slutting around and the equally unassailably logical male attempts to prevent it (not just in humans, btw, and not even just in primates or mammals), getting a touch out of date but still the best, Robert Wright’s (ironically titled) The Moral Animal.
For excellent, short actual scientific paper abstracts on these subjects, the Evo Psych journal:
For a less scientific, admittedly flawed, but still very forcefully argued and eye-opening take on the need to control cheating wives (“sluts” and “non-sluts”), the very controversial Garbage Generation (don’t let the x-ian website throw you, it’s just republished there; not really a christian book per se, though a very traditionalist western one).
[I realize some of this is off-topic to the point you raise, Keith… not meant as a post AT you, just as a post prompted by yours.]
There was that long enough? Roissy this blog is turning me into a screen-zombie. Stop it, you’re killing my mojo!
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okay i give up… Keith I just wrote a freaking novel in response to your post, but I can’t get it past the moderation bot. perhaps i will post back here tomorrow evening… so check back if you feel like continuing this thread even after the main page moves on. you raise an interesting point.
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keith,
there are several reasons to assume that it’s betas who are being cuckolded. here are a few:
*when women are at the most fertile parts of their cycle they prefer more masculine (alpha) faces. when at their least fertile they prefer guys who look and act like providers. (there are evolutionary psych theories behind why this is the case)
*they also describe themselves as more likely to have a sexual fling with these very masculilne-looking guys, as opposed to marrying them.
*betas (dads) get married more than alphas (cads).
other commenters can probably provide further reasons.
i’m not against your entire model, but i think this part of it needs to be addressed.
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Keith that does not seem supported by actual, real data:
The Durex survey and others show many women in urban centers, professionals, racking up 40-50 partners. Sex and the City was not far off.
Declining marriage rates. Rising age of marriage.
CDC data on births and illegitimacy. The rise of PUA schools charging thousands to men who can’t get dates (that alone ought to be a huge red flag).
Your assertion is certainly politically correct. But it does not seem backed up by actual data. FWIW Theodore Dalrymple in “Life at the Bottom” notes how not just his patients but educated, professional nurses preferred violent, abusive men (uber-Jerks lets call them) to nice decent guys.
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“*betas (dads) get married more than alphas (cads).”
Do you have a link for that? If you’re controlling for class, i.e. not including ex-con alphas, that’s an interesting point.
the primary objection to keith’s model:
the non-slutty girls are guaranteed a beta husband, but actually fantasize about an alpha quitting his serial slut-fucking to commit to her. The alpha sees she is not a slut, and has valuable qualities beyond having a vagina. This is a basic storyline of many chick flicks, romance novels, etc: The rake changes his ways for the female protagonist, and they live happily ever after.
Beta is left without his girl, and either he dates a slut, or has too much dignity to date a slut (unlikely) or she is used to alphas, and cannot be bothered to get with the beta. So anywhere from 0 to 10 betas join the priesthood, enshrining their celibacy.
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Peter
For 99% of the males who comment on this blog, the only “f*ckathon” leads to sore wrists.
Good one, Peter!
As a side note; I wonder how great it is to be one of these assholes who “swoops” a girl who later feels like a piece of shit for falling for having sex with them. I would hate like hell for a man who had sex with me to feel like shit afterwards.
Yes, yes, I know all the facts about natural selection and all of those comforting “realities” the assholes like to bring our attention to. “SEE? We simply HAVE to be assholes in order to get laid!” Let me just say that you’re helping to CREATE an overabundance of unhealthy women. Where are women going to find a quality man?
If men want quality women they have to be quality men because it begins with men. They are “matching” you and if you’re unhealthy they will be too, because they’re instincts tell them to match you, unless they’re very strong and independent in which case they won’t be in your vicinity.
I have no doubt someone will say I’m full of shit for my poorly worded opinion, so before someone calls me dumb bitch, troll, or ignoramus; I wholeheartedly agree.
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Whiskey,
Do you have a link for the Durex “40-50” sexual partners figure? Author Karyn Bosnak informally estimates it at 20 sexual partners over the course of a lifetime, for NY women, double the national average.
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Whats the break down on women, my experience is that there is a significant percentage of the female population not getting any.
Its either these Ice Queens are frigid or they’re trying to punch above their weight.
With the sluts banging alphas and the ice queens hanging for Mr Right, the available female pool must be considerably smaller than the male pool.
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they’re perfect for short-term, highly physical flings. their unrestrained emotions usually carry over immediately into the bedroom (or club bathroom, or parking lot, or…), to great advantage for both of us.
it usually takes more time and effort to bring the inevitable inner slut out of a “good girl” – time and effort that i’m not so keen to expend unless i’m looking for a longer-term relationship.
men don’t want to marry bitches, though. you’ve got it twisted something fierce if you think they do.
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it usually takes more time and effort to bring the inevitable inner slut out of a “good girl” – time and effort that i’m not so keen to expend unless i’m looking for a longer-term relationship.
Then there’s the weird David Alexander quirk where a good girl’s inner slut just isn’t enough, but a girl has to become the virtual twin of a porn star to get basic arousal induced. In contrast, the “inner slut” is washed away by the non-sexual appearance of good girl, and it becomes almost comedic like watching little kids play house.
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i know you’re an exaggerated tiresome attention-whoring troll, but i need to address this.
i guarantee you that i’m even more visually oriented than you are.
very few things in life are more arousing than seeing a normally modest girl-next-door, resplendent in slut gear.
knee-high patent leather boots, fence-net stockings, garters, elbow-length satin gloves, perhaps a bra (which comes off straightaway if she’s nicely endowed), smoky eyes, blood-red lipstick, the works.
much, much more arousing than seeing the same regalia on a girl who sluts it up in public on the regular for all comers (pun intended).
no omar abdel rahman am i, but i can’t help but think how arousing it would be to strip, doll up, and fuck a woman who wears a hijab for the eyes of everyone else.
women of this blog, before you rant and rave: this is a thought experiment. that is all. thank you.
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P.S. I don’t have the time many of you seem to–to word everything succinctly; not that I’m really capable of it) Osho says what I was trying to say much better. Hang on and I’ll go find the book……
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What is all this insecurity about cuckoldry? While it certainly happens more that we’d like to think and often to the most unsuspecting people, this is still a fairly rare phenomenon that is quite unlikely to happen to most people. Real people must have more sophisticated things going on in their heads than finches or monkeys do that control some of their primal impulses. I think this is a lot less likely than just regular affairs.
Unless you or your woman have some sort of reproductive issue the moment the birth control is cut your woman will conceive instantly. Especially if she does what most women do when they try to conceive and all of a sudden pursue their men wantonly. It really works that way 95% of the time. The window for occult cuckoldry is about 2 weeks- so it’s probably not going to happen unless you’re shooting blanks and she’s an ultra mega-slut (which you probably would have known by the time you decide to reproduce). I can’t imagine worrying about this nonsense- just actively participate in your woman’s birth control planning. If you’re not shooting blanks and you control your woman properly and it’s less likely than getting hit by lightning.
Think of it from the other side:
I confess I personally do feel a primal urge to spread my seed prolifically because of my ego. Particularly when I see a decent woman married to some schmuck who probably shouldn’t reproduce. I’m not perfect but I know I’ve got somewhat better genes by most measures than most other men. Since I’m type O negative and have unremarkable recessive cosmetic traits, there’s no obvious reason a cuckolded guy would be suspicious. The baby would probably be even good-looking like me, why would the guy deny that it is his? I’m the perfect sperm donor; no one would ever know. Unless gene sequencing becomes ubiquitous.
But if she’s married and trying for kids, just think about what it would take to get in her pants at that point? Especially if there was only a 2 week window – whoa….that’s some really sloppy seconds partner because if she’s really trying to conceive she’s going to drain all the cum right out of her husband 5 times a day. How am I going to get in there? So it’s probably better and easier to spread my seed with unmarried chicks who’d otherwise just get knocked up by some dirtbag. Or perhaps with some chick who’s hubby is shooting blanks anyway and doesn’t want her husband to know that he’s incapable.
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very few things in life are more arousing than seeing a normally modest girl-next-door, resplendent in slut gear.
As a porn monger, I’ve seen scenes with girl next door types, and most of them are god-awful in their set-ups to the point that it comes off as a comedic attempt to mimic porn. Hell, looking at my “pretend girlfriend’s” attempt to wear knee-high boots seemed a waste of my time and sorta destroyed the hope that a normal girl could make the leap into a sexual world for me.
Put it this way, for most men, imagining a girl gives arousal. In my case, it creates private comedy.
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alphadominance:
This is why in hard times a woman is more likely to carry a male offspring to term but spontaneously abort a female offspring.
I thought it was the other way around — in hard times a woman is more likely to carry female offspring since a daughter is more likely to reproduce at all, while in good times male offspring are more likely since the upside is much greater.
11minutes:
For the 198078. time: No one here is interested in what you are interested in – successful long term relationships.
Not true, and I’m not sure it’s a great approximation either. I’m exclusively interested in LTRs but after an especially disheartening experience I recognize the need to adopt selected bits of game to achieve my goals. Recently, a married acquaintance of mine independently found this blog and found a lot worth learning.
whiskey:
Context is important, if society changed rapidly in ten years women would avoid assholes if that signified “loser” who would never get anywhere other than a lengthy prison stretch. A lot of female selection is due to about forty years of uninterrupted good times and their rapid ascent in status/power/independence, along with economic shifts to non-productive “priesthoods” like Media or Law or Entertainment.
A fairly large number of underclass women don’t have enough future time orientation to avoid banging clearly prison-bound men. It’s important for any society that intends to stick around to ensure such women reproduce less than average.
But yes, context will affect the behavior of higher class women.
Believe me, if men were not successful with assholery, they would drop it quickly. Sadly, it works like gangbusters.
Which of course leads men to act like assholes all the time, particularly around women. This would include not giving up seats, cutting in line, other attributes of assholery.
I don’t think it’s that black and white. Sometimes the best way to stand up for yourself is to be an asshole; to the degree that is true, men won’t give up assholery. (Think a sane version of Ayn Rand.) I like wintergreen’s 10:09 pm comment.
el chief:
There are three responses to someone pushing you around psychologically: passive, assertive, aggressive.
Passive is beta, and weak, and does not work long term. You will hate yourself. “Sorry honey, won’t happen again”
Assertive and Aggressive are alpha.
Assertive is more cocky-funny, like James Bond, and aggressive is alpha asshole. Assertive is harder and takes more patience and self-control.
Asshole alpha works great short term, but will make her fucking hate you long term. “Shut the fuck up, whore”
I would say the best strategy is aim for assertive long term, but use aggressive when you can’t be assertive (no time to come up with something funny say), and possibly asshole game at the beginning when negging is required with a hot babe.
Well, what if their grievance is legitimate and not overstated? Sometimes the other guy or gal is just right, and the most positive-sum thing to do is agree.
You have plenty of opportunity to be assertive when the other party isn’t completely right. Or if the people in your life are so rational that you don’t, that’s probably a blessing. 🙂
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Roissy is, as usual, dead-on. Assholery is, in certain situations, the only way to go – it is necessary, on occasion, in all dealings with women. Never show fear, always maintain dominance; otherwise they will loathe you. Soft-touch assholery when possible, but that isn’t always possible.
I’m relatively new to this blog, and I’m astonished at the wisdom and comfort to be found here. As yet another natural alpha who got snowed under by the Monstrous Regiment of Women, regular visits to Roissy & Co have been more beneficial than my shrink, my lawyer, and my friends (often combined).
But now, having joined the counterrevolution, it’s going great. Several women on the line, and I’ve pretty much abandoned American women altogether; in no way worth the drama and pain. So now I’m getting more and better poon than ever, with minimal fuss and it’s all on my terms. I am pretty close to living the dream here … thanks to Roissy and Like-Minded Brotherhood.
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Isn’t this merely a case of valuing things that take effort to achieve/obtain vs. not valuing something obtained for free, or very easily.
I’m sure many of us here have worked hard to get something (car, computer, cash, etc.). When you get it, there is 1) a sense of accomplishment, and 2) a much greater value placed on the thing you got than if daddy bought it for you.
By analogy, if male attention/affection does not come easily, then more effort will be expended to obtain it. We pursue that which retreats. If male attention/affection flows freely, however, then a woman will lose interest.
Not saying this is the whole reason why a-hole theory works, but I think it’s a major component.
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I just wrote a freaking novel in response to your post, but I can’t get it past the moderation bot.
Comments with internet links go automatically to the moderation cue.
Also, for some odd reason, so do the letters “m e g a,” when written normally (without the spaces between leters) This means that the word “o m e g a” will get your comment sent to moderation.
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Why did this relationship end?
It seems to me that asshole behavior in an ongoing, steady relationship can shock a woman back into reality, but used as consistently and long term as roissy did means she’ll give it up frequently to try to keep your attention, but it’s killing the goose for the egg. You’re dooming the relationship if you run asshole for too long.
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As you can see, even electronic entities like WordPress rejects o m e g a males. No sexbots for you, fellas.
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The best way to understand why women choose assholes is to look at prisoner’s dilemma in game theory.
Asshole always defects.
Alpha plays tit-for-tat.
Beta always co-operates.
Shit test is used to figure which category you belong to.
Women love to get asshole genes for their offspring, because when there are enough beta suckers that assholes can get away with it, it is by far the best strategy. Sufficient amount of betatude is good when selecting mate for cuckolding.
But remember, that assholes destroy the moral fabric of the society, because at some point disillusioned betas become bitter and start defecting, too. But you can easily see, that if women can choose freely, they choose to wreck the society.
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if women can choose freely, they choose to wreck the society.
That is true on so many levels.
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Keith/Niko: Your Madonna/Whore complex has blinded your view of reality:
“44% of adults worldwide have had a one-night stand, with 22% claiming to have had an extra marital affair
The most common experience for men (47%) and women (40%) is a one night stand
Almost half (47%) of all adults globally have had unprotected sex without knowing their partner’s sexual history
In other words, casual sex is the norm.
“one in four (26%) young women between the ages of 14 and 19 in the United Sattes-or 3.2 million teenage girls-is infected with at least one of the most common sexually transmitted diseases (human papillomavirus (HPV), chlamydia, herpes simplex virus, and trichonomiasis).”
Also, note:
“female adolescents generally have higher rates than same-age males.”
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[…] January 13, 2009 After pushing feminists buttons last week by calling a slut a slut, roissy takes it up one notch this week to discuss the feminine need for getting treated poorly by the men they go to bed with. […]
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Men choosing freely is better for society? It seems that if guys were left to choose freely, the “slut-tolerance” factor would have to go way up, or society would devolve into extreme violence, and heavy female guarding. Marriage would be a dead instutution, or just for the few strongest men, and the amount of poverty would go way up. If given the choice to live in a Middle-eastern society (male choice biased), or Sweden (female choice biased), I think I’ll take Sweden.
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— Men choosing freely is better for society?
Existentially, and in the long-term, yes.
Males can be destructive and evil, but a male-ordered society develops ways of binding the more destructive male impulses into workeable social frameworks. This tends to channel male energies toward peaceful and creatiev ends. That’s called “civilization.”
Female-directed societies, on the other hand, unleash the worst of male energies.
— If given the choice to live in a Middle-eastern society (male choice biased), or Sweden (female choice biased), I think I’ll take Sweden.
Here is the difference: Middle-Eastern-style male-directed society is sustainable, while the Sweden-style female-directed society is unsustainable. That’s the essense of why unrestrained female choice wrecks societies.
Did you notice that the Middle East is pouring into Sweden and reshaping it in its own image, and not vice-versa?
Sweden is nice because it’s social capital, which was built by earlier, patriarchal Swedish generations, is still evident. But under the prevailing matriarchy, it’s getting consumed.
And soon enough it will be replaced by a patriarchial order anyway… with the Middle eastern order that you had just repudiated.
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As an interesting aside, the Freakonomics blog has a question-and-answer session with Alex Rigipulos, who runs the company behind Guitar Hero and Rock Band. One question was whether he had to lie about being an avid gamer during his student days in order to get girls to go out with him. The answer:
Hah, in my early days studying for my B.S. and M.S., I had already had my first kid, so persuading girls to go out with me wasn’t exactly on the top of my list of priorities at that point. (And in any case, hiding your real interests in order to get a girl to go out with you generally doesn’t end well.)
But maybe what you’re asking is, was a guy’s gaming habit more likely to turn off a prospective girlfriend 20 years ago than it is today? To that I’d have to say yes. Twenty years ago, video games were mostly the province of nerdy boys.
That has gradually changed a lot over the past two decades. We’re making really good progress toward a time when the word “gamer” doesn’t have any gender baggage. I can’t wait, because when we finally get there, it will mean that the industry has started making some new kinds of games that we’re not making yet.
Peter
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Male choice societies are no more sustainable than female choice societies. There is a reason why all those people are fleeing from the Middle East and going to Sweden, and it isn’t because the Middle East is such a paradise. Yet no one (George Bush excepted) wants to go to the Middle East. I wonder why that is?
Male choice societies, seen mostly in the Middle-East, lead to the kind of direction-less violence and bickering over scarce resources (women), while other males do their best to try to hoard them all In male choice societies, a guy doesn’t have to worry about Game, because he doesn’t even get close enough to a woman to be able to practice it. If he is lucky, his family will arrange a marriage with one of his younger cousins when he is in his thirties.
Female choice leads to more guys getting laid more often. While there are losers and winners in both methods, they are far more losers in the male choice socirties than the femle choice societies.
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“Here is the difference: Middle-Eastern-style male-directed society is sustainable, while the Sweden-style female-directed society is unsustainable. That’s the essense of why unrestrained female choice wrecks societies.”
How do you figure?
“Did you notice that the Middle East is pouring into Sweden and reshaping it in its own image, and not vice-versa?”
So Middle Easterners are leaving their male-directed society to enter a female-directed one. How does this show that male-directed societies are more sustainable? They quite possibly are, but this trend tells me that Middle Easterners’ society isn’t working for them, therefore they have to go to a relatively prosperous one, which happens to be your so-called female-directed society.
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— There is a reason why all those people are fleeing from the Middle East and going to Sweden, and it isn’t because the Middle East is such a paradise.
Not all patriarchal societies are the same. The Middle Easterners have their own — brutish and stupid to us — sort of way of running things. The European man has his own way too, which created wealthy and peaceful countries like Sweden in the first place.
But this civilization-creating patriarchy is now gone. What you see in your lovely Sweden is the cornucopia of leftover friut of that abdicated patriarchy, feasted on by gnats and flies, until it is gone.
By migrating to Sweden, the Middle Easterners are showing a preference for living in a place that was built by European men when the country was still patriarchal, over a place that was built by Arabs.
Unfortunately, they are bringing their own middle-easternness with them, slowly but steadily changing Sweden into the Middle east.
And they are also migrating there because of the suicidally generous welfare that the now-feminized Sweden promises.
Male choice societies, seen mostly in the Middle-East, lead to the kind of direction-less violence and bickering over scarce resources (women), while other males do their best to try to hoard them all
Like I noted above, every culture has its own norms and traditions, ansd with Middle Easternners, well, you get their way of doing things. But this is not part of the European way of doing things. The Western Civilization has always had a good balance of masculine and feminine virtues, and historically, it afforded its women the best way of life.
The patriarchal European civilization acommodates the need for male order, with female dignity.
In male choice societies, a guy doesn’t have to worry about Game, because he doesn’t even get close enough to a woman to be able to practice it. If he is lucky, his family will arrange a marriage with one of his younger cousins when he is in his thirties.
Again, arranged marriage is not a European custom. The patriarchal West acommodated love-marriages, some degree of sexual deviancy, and infidelity, while still maintaining the sexual order.
Female choice leads to more guys getting laid more often. While there are losers and winners in both methods, they are far more losers in the male choice socirties than the femle choice societies.
Bullshit.
Female choices get alphas and criminals laid, and their shitty genes propagated.
Bottom line: there was once one Somalia, and one Finland. In a female-directed future, there will be two Somalias, and no Finlands.
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Chuck,
What’s going to happen 10 generations from now though? Female directed society values silly shoes over having kids. There will be almost no indigenous Swedes left because of differential reproductive rates. I think that’s the point. No kids = No future. What we currently think of as Europe (and to a lesser extent non-mormon America) is turning into a giant nursing home. The culture we know today will perish unless thorough identity-stripping naturalization occurs. In the long run only difference between this and the conquistadors is the it will take a century or two instead of a decade or two.
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So Middle Easterners are leaving their male-directed society to enter a female-directed one. How does this show that male-directed societies are more sustainable? They quite possibly are, but this trend tells me that Middle Easterners’ society isn’t working for them, therefore they have to go to a relatively prosperous one, which happens to be your so-called female-directed society.
The cultural assimilation of Middle-Easterners isn’t going very well in Western Europe. By and large, they are creating parallel societies, not assimilating. Our current elites figure this kind of multiculturalism is to be celebrated.
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Female directed societies last only for the time enough to consume the social capital left over from the old patriarchy.
The Judeo-Christian patriarchy, together with high IQ nordic population and a protestant work ethic created a society much wealthier that a Islamic Patriarchy, with medium IQ arabs mixed with low IQ africans and an absence of work ethic created a much poorer society in the Middle East.
Sweden is declining, but it is declining from such a high ground that it is still a much better place than Iran. But give enough time for the female-directed order in Sweden to destroy the social capital it inherited. When it is done, Sweden will be replaced by a Islamic Patriarchy with a substantial medium (arabs) and low (africans) IQ population and without any work ethic. SO Sweden will converge to Iraqi standards.
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Gig – nominated for Comment of the Month.
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Sweden is declining, but it is declining from such a high ground that it is still a much better place than Iran. But give enough time for the female-directed order in Sweden to destroy the social capital it inherited. When it is done, Sweden will be replaced by a Islamic Patriarchy with a substantial medium (arabs) and low (africans) IQ population and without any work ethic. SO Sweden will converge to Iraqi standards.
You forgot white flight. Sweden as we know it may disappear as it is inundated by unassimilating masses of Middle Easterners. But the descendents of today’s Swedes can always retreat to Iceland and Spitzbergen. Perhaps Arctic Canada, Kerguelen, New Zealand and a few other places may yet be available. When the last remaining barbarian-free territory on Earth is finally filled with barbarians, humanity is hopefully at a stage technologically when white flight may continue to directions not feasible by today’s methods. For instance, white people can upgrade their biological bodies to synthetic ones that can withstand conditions much more inhospitable than any found on Earth. Then white people can leave Earth and settle on the Moon or the Outer Planets, or maybe even the vast emptiness of interplanetary space provided that their bodies be equipped with efficient solar panes.
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“Middle-Eastern-style male-directed society is sustainable”
Gig, PA:
I guess my question means to get to the heart of your definition of sustainable. Sustainable in the sense of at minimum replacement birthrates, sure, but sustainable in the sense of a relatively safe society, not so much.
You guys are decrying the drawbacks to a society like Sweden’s, but you are saying that it will soon capitulate to the Middle Eastern-style male dominated one, which you cite as having many flaws.
I’m wondering which you would rather have, a society like Sweden’s (pre Middle Eastern mass immigration) or Middle Eastern society.
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The only thing declining about Sweden is the birthrates, which are declining all over the world. Even in the Middle East they are declining, though not yet at the rapid pace of the European counterparts. It seems that for the most part neither men nor women, if given the choice, really prefer big families, and the extra work and attention that they entail. Give the Arabs a generation or two in the West, and the average family size starts shrinking too.
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When the last remaining barbarian-free territory on Earth is finally filled with barbarians, humanity is hopefully at a stage technologically when white flight may continue to directions not feasible by today’s methods.
Or, they will push back.
In animals, the fight-or-flight scenario always favors flight. But when there is no more room to run, …. well, what does a cornered animal do?
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The majority of the civilized world is populated by male choice societies. South Asian, East Asian and Islamic societies are all male choice. They have all been around for a very long time, whereas female choice societies have only existed in the civilized world for forty years or so. Middle Easterners go to Sweden for the same reason they flock to Dubai and Saudi Arabia — economic inducement.
Again, male choice societies (i.e. patriarchies) are the norm the world over. They exist in many different forms, not all of which are fundamentalist Islam. Directionless violence, BTW, is far more common in the United States than it is in most of the Middle East. So is rape.
The only part of the world where female choice has long been the norm is Africa. And even there only the savage, uncivilized parts are that way. All African kingdoms that became powerful were based on a patriarchal system, perhaps with the exception of Dahomey, which only grew strong from the slave trade.
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Chuck — I’d take any pre/non-imigration European society over any non-European society.
Anonymous — (please get a nick; I don’t normally respond to anons) Middle Easterners as a whole might never be able to function on a Scandinavian level, for cultural and IQ reasons, so the odds against them assimilating are high.
And even if they do assimilate, it will be humanity’s loss to have one ethinc group (Swedes in this case) blend with or be displaced by another culture.
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I think there most societies have differing degress of female/male choice. The Middle East and Sweden were chosen because they seemed more on the polar opposites of the scale, with the Middle East typifying extreme male choice, and Sweden typifying extreme female choice. Sweden looks like a pretty good society compared to most of the Middle East. And less female choice a particular country has in the Middle East, the less desirable it seems. I mean, would anyone really prefer to live under the rule of the Taliban, or in Dubai, or even Iran?
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Dr. Deepdick is funny.
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And they are also migrating there because of the suicidally generous welfare that the now-feminized Sweden promises.
The funny part is that I’ve always wondered why white-nationalist types never bragged about liberalism because I’ve generally found liberalism to be the portion of “white countries” that makes them better.
The patriarchal West acommodated love-marriages, some degree of sexual deviancy, and infidelity, while still maintaining the sexual order.
Yes, but until recently, most of us were forced to choose based on financial means. Romance was simply something for the elite or those who could afford to read about it.
Bottom line: there was once one Somalia, and one Finland. In a female-directed future, there will be two Somalias, and no Finlands.
Even in a vaccum with no immigration, will there still be two Somalias in a female-directed future?
Female choices get alphas and criminals laid, and their shitty genes propagated.
One could argue that female choice just simply lifted the curtain over the realities of female sexuality and revealed to the betas the futility of their own lives. In other words, women simply only desire alpha males and only tolerate beta males for their financial usefulness. Personally, I believe that cuckholdry rates were probably much higher and various ghosts and spirits such as the incubus are really fronts for females attempts to copulate with alpha males at various periods in history. In turn, given the lack of paternity testing before cheap-DNA testing, I’d suspect that there are lots of children that are the product of secret illicit relationships between alpha males and women.
My problem is that if beta males are being simply used for financial support by women, why should they bother to involve themselves with long term relationships with women who don’t really love them when given a choice? Maybe beta men should simply wise up and stop being impotent tools for the alpha males and simply lead a sexless life instead of degrading ourselves by being so-called “beta providers”. I want a woman to love me because she likes me for who I am as a person, not because I have enough credit to co-sign for mortgage and her Lexus, and certainly not because I can mimic Roissy or some other alpha male.
Sweden will be replaced by a Islamic Patriarchy with a substantial…low (africans) IQ population and without any work ethic.
So in other words, it’s David Alexander’s fault for existing as to why white countries will crumble?
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It depends on which Sweden we’re talking about. A few days before christmas we had riots in Rosengård, Malmö – a city which is slowly turning into a middle eastern society. Take a look at this depressing video:
It starts slow but it’s worth watching. That’s the new Sweden. Listen to the voices. They aren’t speaking Swedish. Most of the explosions are from fireworks, some of them from homemade bombs. The scale of the riots wasn’t as large as those we saw in France a few years ago, but it’s just a matter of time before things gets worse. Buses, ambulances, firefighters and even the police are now being regularlyattacked in the non-swedish suburbs of all major Swedish cities. The wonderfully politically correct politicians are of course still speaking about the joys of multiculturalism.
I’m still hoping that the finns will wise up within the next few years and return to their old, restrictive immigration policy which seemed to work just fine. Otherwise, I have no idea where to go when it’s time to settle down.
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So in other words, it’s David Alexander’s fault for existing as to why white countries will crumble?
If a few PA’s moved to Korea, we would not have any adverse impact on that country, or any impact to speak of. Numbers matter.
But if ten million of PA’s plus his cousins moved to Korea, even with good IQs and good behavior, we’d destroy a country formerly known as Korea.
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But if ten million of PA’s plus his cousins moved to Korea, even with good IQs and good behavior, we’d destroy a country formerly known as Korea.
I fail to see how you destroyed Korea. By that logic, all the non-Anglo-Saxons whites who moved to America destroyed its original Anglo-Saxon culture and base.
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David Alexander writes:
“I fail to see how you destroyed Korea.”
A country is its people and all that goes into the makeup of its people (ie. race, ethnicity, religion, beliefs, culture, traditions, moral standards). Displace the people and you destroy the nation. Understand?
“By that logic, all the non-Anglo-Saxons whites who moved to America destroyed its original Anglo-Saxon culture and base.”
Even if this were true, which it is only to a very modest extent, why make it worse by importing millions of non-Westerners?
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Even if this were true, which it is only to a very modest extent, why make it worse by importing millions of non-Westerners?
A few of us may like white people enough to live with them. Some of us are too high IQ to waste our lives in broken third world or somewhat functional second world states. Some of us believe in certain philosophies or practice certain habits that’s illegal in our home lands. The rest of us just want to make some money and live well, and the only place we can do that is in your lands.
Otherwise, if you’re not going to let us in, do us a favour and kill us off, and kill off the existing non-white minorities in your states. It makes little sense to let these people live if you can’t give them a “first world” standard of living too, lest they become jealous and agitated.
Mind you, if we get to immigrate to your land, you should be able to move to our land too.
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David Alexander:
Personally, I believe that cuckholdry rates were probably much higher and various ghosts and spirits such as the incubus are really fronts for females attempts to copulate with alpha males at various periods in history.
That is actually a pretty good insight, David. I hadn’t thought of that before.
My problem is that if beta males are being simply used for financial support by women, why should they bother to involve themselves with long term relationships with women who don’t really love them when given a choice?
I’ve explained this to you before:
Children.
Believe it or not, some men want to propagate their genes, or build a mini-empire. I wouldn’t begrudge a man who married a woman just for this purpose, as long as he ran a tight ship and remained the patriarch of the household. Some men aren’t gooey sentimentalists and could care less how much his wife “loves” him as long as she fulfills her role as housekeeper and mother of his children.
Barring children though, you are right. No reason to get married.
Maybe beta men should simply wise up and stop being impotent tools for the alpha males and simply lead a sexless life instead of degrading ourselves by being so-called “beta providers”. I want a woman to love me because she likes me for who I am as a person
Sounds like somebody needs a hug.
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David Alexander writes:
“A few of us may like white people enough to live with them. Some of us are too high IQ to waste our lives in broken third world or somewhat functional second world states. Some of us believe in certain philosophies or practice certain habits that’s illegal in our home lands. The rest of us just want to make some money and live well, and the only place we can do that is in your lands.”
First, a few, as you write, are not millions. There’s always room for a few enlightened souls from all over the world. We must not think individually but collectively when discussing immigration. Distributions, averages, standard deviations only have meaning when discussing large samples.
Second, it is not the West’s mission to save the non-Western world. Only someone like Jesus can do that. The West’s destiny is to preserve itself and flourish within its own parameters.
Last, if you’re so concerned about the living standards of the Third World, perhaps you should advocate for a non-liberal re-colonization of Africa, for instance, by the West. That’s the only thing that will lift Africa to something like First World status.
It goes without saying that if you love the life you’re able to have in this country then you should be an immigration restrictionist as well.
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DA said:
…all the non-Anglo-Saxons whites who moved to America destroyed its original Anglo-Saxon culture and base.
Prior to the 1960’s this opinion was very common among America’s elite. Now our elites think the opposite is true.
Viva la diversite!
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WhiskeySo the next time a guy treats you rudely, cuts in line, walks right past you while you struggle with something, acts like a jerk, just remember: that behavior was encouraged by women sleeping with it.
For the most part(90%), I agree with this Whiskey. There are some men who aren’t getting laid and they behave in the same manner.
See VH1’s “Tool Academy.” The tools are there because women find them deeply attractive. After all, the girls could have just dumped them immediately and found a “nice guy.” Keep in mind that the guys on that show are for the most part nice looking well built guys. Women can be a behave foolishly for a good-looking guy in the same way that men will for a “10”. The obesity& slovenly epidemics in this country cross gender lines. How many times have you heard a woman complaining that all of the good looking men are gay?
But they didn’t, they wanted the tool, just slightly less tool-ish. This is the macro social reality behind the aggregation of individual choices.
Agreed, and it’s the reason I don’t feel pity for any of those women. Hearing from *your man’s own mouth* that he cheated on you and plans on doing it again should be enough for any sensible woman to hit the road. What really did me in was the woman supporting her tool boyfriend with her child support. SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK!
What type of man takes from the mouth of a baby so he can eat? The best thing a decent guy like you*, Keith, Chris or Joe T can do is stay far far far away from such stupid, vile creatures. In all likelihood, she won’t appreciate a decent man because for some twisted reason, she is accustomed to be treated like trash. She will mistake your kindness for weakness and make you pay in kind. With a boyfriend who gives it out like government cheese, there is a good chance she may be a carrier of some type of STD as well. Protect both your heart and your body.
* bar the talk about race and Armageddon stuff Whiskey
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For the guys crying about falling birth rates, have you raised a child on your own? How about baby-sitting a child for a week?
Some of you should barrow a child, preferably two from a family member for two weeks. You and only you will be responsible for their daily upkeep as well as all of the expenses that raising a young child will entail (diapers, food etc..) After two weeks of child rearing, most of you will fling those babies back at your sisters, aunts, cousins etc…
Most of you will find that having two children versus one; will change your life in terms of the amount of time you have to spend with your spouse and friends. You wife will be worn out to sleep with you most of the time and if Americans, may become depressed with her new role as child micro manager. You’ll have less for your hobbies and you’ll have to make decisions centered around what is best for the children instead of “what I wanna do is….”. That means private school tuition before that new LCD Televsion or latest Iphone.
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Seems like asshole game works on beta males too!
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See VH1’s “Tool Academy.
After watching the first episode last night, I’d argue that for guys with game, either their game is weak, or they have awful taste in women.
Agreed, and it’s the reason I don’t feel pity for any of those women.
One could argue it’s the theory of woman wanting only alphas at play. One would suspect that these so-so looking women would question why these men would want them, but I suspect that they’ll put up with their boyfriend’s tendencies in order to get a some fictitious resemblance of a relationship with an alpha.
Children.
Then go learn game and knock up women galore. While you may have lots of kids, the downside is that you’ll have children who live in questionable environments with no father. If you’re smart, with some fake ID, you can avoid child support…
Sounds like somebody needs a hug.
Touché, Tupac. I’ll hug non-date at work tomorrow, and she’ll make everything better.
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I’m doing that right now. Have you?
Oh, really?
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I’m doing that right now. Have you?
I’ve baby sat yes. I have no need for a child right now because:
1. I’m unmarried
2. I prefer to adopt
3. I’m not emotionally or financially ready to have a child.
Oh, really?
Yes, unless you are the type to leave of the child rearing,cooking, and cleaning to your wife?
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@Tupac
>Believe it or not, some men want to propagate their genes, or build a mini-empire.
That’s me… otherwise I’d still be out there. I’ve told my fiancee specifically that I want a large family so that I can be a benevolent patriarch. And my business holdings will be a mini-empire to start.
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So in other words, it’s David Alexander’s fault for existing as to why white countries will crumble?
David Alexander, trampling Sweden underfoot. See my works, ye mighty, and despair.
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lol. You didn’t get the sarcasm, apparently.
I’m a single dad.
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“*when women are at the most fertile parts of their cycle they prefer more masculine (alpha) faces. when at their least fertile they prefer guys who look and act like providers. (there are evolutionary psych theories behind why this is the case)”
But that cuts both ways. You can argue that this means a beta-looking guy will be more likely to raise another guy’s kids, but that an alpha-looking guy is more likely to be deserted and pay child support for his own kids while she lives with the beta.
By that dint, an alpha guy is just as (or even more) likely to be cheated on as a beta, but he doesn’t care, since he’s not in as much genetic danger from spousal cheating.
The question: What’s the story with the faux alpha PUAers? Are they identical to alphas, or is their faux alpha behavior more likely to work with sluts?
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welmerlol. You didn’t get the sarcasm, apparently.
I’m a single dad.
LOL I didn’t sorry.
I have a lot of respect for any man who can do the job of raising his child alone. It certainly isn’t easy for a woman, so I can’t imagine how difficult it is for a man.
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Yes, that is quite accurate. Firemen and cops are divorced at prodigious rates. They obviously have higher testosterone than your typical office worker, yet they are left by women all the time.
Women like to get pregnant by masculine men and then “nest” with beta providers. It’s a practical thing to do for women, but for men it really blows.
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Chic Noir sounds like a fucking tool .
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the_alpha_male
Chic Noir sounds like a fucking tool
Thanks 🙂
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beta cuckoldry is not merely anecdotal. there are a significant percent of births (i think the estimates range from 2% to 10%) where the kid’s DNA doesn’t match the father’s.
Not a significant percentage, a small minority. No one really knows this figure, as there are no random sample studies. But a ten percent figure for the general population is way too high. Lit reviews estimate from two
to four , percent, and lower for stable middle-class type populations (i.e. “betas”).
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One could argue that female choice just simply lifted the curtain over the realities of female sexuality and revealed to the betas the futility of their own lives. In other words, women simply only desire alpha males and only tolerate beta males for their financial usefulness. Personally, I believe that cuckholdry rates were probably much higher
this is so transparently an excuse DA uses for his fear of sex/women.
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Roissy is right about the ahole game working and that ahole do get laid. Too bad he is always wrong in explaining everything such as “alpha” and aholes. Aholes are pursued because they have confidence and are masculine. They are also interesting by providing EMOTIONAL drama. If you want to be a player work on your confidence, chicks dig guys that have options.
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this is so transparently an excuse DA uses for his fear of sex/women
I am not afraid of women or sex…
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A great example of how asshole game must be framed properly, ie it will not work for perceived betas: I worked with two girls who are close friends, and they recently decided to start a podcast to detail their fantastically interesting observations about hipster life. They got it put up on itunes and I wrote a review that was inspired and derisory, knowing they’d both recognize my writing style and be able to laugh at how over-the-top I was being.
The back story is that these two close friends have very different perceptions of me. One had a successful run at the job and obviously viewed me as a beta as she passed me by. The other girl had a huge crush on me, for whatever reason, so I could do no wrong in her eyes.
So they both read my scathing review and IM me later on that week. The girl who sees me as a beta gives me feedback like “i hope it made you feel good” and “i just think it’s lame”. The girl with the crush on me, after telling me that I’m a jerk and she almost cried after reading it, quickly comes around with “you, my dear, are the minority” and goes on to add “funny”, “good writer”, “amazing”, and even “a smart man” to my resume of qualities.
Asshole game from betas is met with dry disgust; alphas churn out the leaky faucet panties. The remarkable thing is, I think I raised my status with the angry girl, too.
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Cannon,
Always better to go out with your sense of Pride intact. Oh, and nothing’s better than scoring the Poon from a gal who’d never thought to break you off some to begin with. Keep up the good work, and watch girlfriend who passed you up start giving you the hairy eyeball.
The Obsidian
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Lots of us are doing it now. Women’s lib has given women an easy out, and they are never pursued for child support like men. I know several single dads, but I haven’t yet met one who gets a check from the children’s mother.
Some of them, believe it or not, are real “alphas.” They just happen to care a lot about their kids. Once mom is out of the picture you wouldn’t believe how many women throw themselves at single dads. Why, just the other day I had one suggesting that I should have her over for Valentine’s day. I said: “well, you know you’ll have to buy the chocolates and wine, ‘cuz I still have to pay my lawyer like 2k per month.” She was cool with that for some reason. Also, they’ve got nothing on me on nurturing. Women can try to say they know how to do this or that and are better with kids, and I just laugh and say “really? then change this full diaper.” In the meanwhile I wink at my daughter and whisper “tornado” and the poor woman finds herself in the middle of a flailing sh*tstorm. Ah, that’s funny.
Once they’re weaned it’s not so bad. Soon, I’ll have them doing dishes and taking out the garbage. 🙂
Seriously, though, I love my kids, and would willingly shove even Giselle Bundchen in front of a bus to save them. The kids really like me, too. It’s a big party for them, and not so bad for me, either. Being a daddy is pretty awesome, even though it does cut into the game thing. But I’ll say to Roissy and all the other gamers, there’s nothing that will make you care like a little one who really does love you. It puts it all in perspective. You guys may not believe me, but wait until your own child wraps his/her arms around you and says “I love you.” They mean it, and it just rocks your world.
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Thanks Obsidian. I wasn’t consciously working on either girl, but I thought that scenario was relevant to asshole game with good control variables. I inadvertently used my witty composition, an established character strength from that job, as a position of power, and knocked both girls down a peg when I denied that they sniff my level of coy wit and measured delivery. It’s a shame hipsters keep my dick soft, since I feel like I’m discovering an angle.
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Thinking of this, I realized that I consider both of these girls my friends, by definition, but that they both would be shitty to wing for me in public. One still needs my appraisal adjusted, and the other would likely still devote her energies to ensnare me herself. Although my episode of asshole game trended me toward alpha status in both girls’ minds, there is still much work to be done.
In accord with the ‘spice’ analogy, I think I will amp up the asshole game on “angry” and play up my sensitivities with “crushy.”
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I will call this spice, “melange.”
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Cannon, if you’re a “blue eyed devil”, that would make it very appropriate. Heheheh…
(I am such a nerd. 😦 )
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I would not have ventured such a beta pop culture reference if Roissy hadn’t already alluded to it some time ago. But it’s nice to be reassured at this hour that I’m not just pretending I’m funny because I’m drunk.
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Just noticed you are female, so I will revise that comment to say “Fuck you and your Frank Wright, I read Dostoevsky on the scale beeeeeeyatch!!!!!!!!”
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eleven minutes said
“Why do you think roissy has all this following? ”
What I would rather say, not a following, but peers who have seen same, done same and have benefited from the results in a way that 90-95% of the male population cannot even see in their dreams.
And funnily we are also immune to the accusations of “you cant get laid”
Also immune to “not all women are like that” – Once you see enough shit happening, you loose your arrogance to claim “this wont happen to me”.
And immune to “you hate women”.. as I was not born a misogynist, I was made. (If I am one. I consider myself realist)
————————————————————————
“So, please drop that “you might get me to bed with you, but then I would leave you” attitude. ”
What women do not accept as it is against their agenda of “having fun and then settling down” is that this action, “I sleep with you, but I would leave you” is the reason men learn game, or is the reason the alpha’s are happy.
As long as we do not want kids, or are not in love/oneitis, that is what we want.
Fuck us, and leave us.
Fuck us for free.
that’s what men want.
Not “Fuck me after I tell you I love you ten times, give you a back rub, a foot massage, take you two two europe holidays and buy you dozens of dinners”
For men getting commitment is easy, for women it is sex.
So what the girl is saying is “I will reward you for being an asshole”
she thinks she is punishing me by leaving, while I am on the phone calling my buddies for a beer, just having relaxed nicely.
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@ z.g.
“What I would rather say, not a following, but peers who have seen same, done same and have benefited from the results in a way that 90-95% of the male population cannot even see in their dreams.”
good grief, well played.
“Also immune to “not all women are like that” – Once you see enough shit happening, you lose your arrogance to claim “this wont happen to me”.”
absolutely! i had some regret to throw my hat toward the “former beta turned PUA” archetype, but i have seen this again and again from age 18 to 28. the instances are innumerable.
“And immune to “you hate women”.. as I was not born a misogynist, I was made. (If I am one. I consider myself realist)”
I was raised as a Protestant and went to church every Sunday. I remember answering a rhetorical question at one point to my bible study group that I thought would be impactful: when I was asked what was my aspiration in life, I answered, “to help other people realize happiness!” Vividly, I remember how proud I was of coming up with the best answer possible.
The opposite of asshole game.
Nowadays I consider Ayn Rand a ‘protestant.’ Hallelujah!
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Keith:
“So the alphas each have ten partners, because they each had all of the sluts. The sluts each had ten partners. The rest of the population had one partner each.”
Yes the alphas will have fucked all the sluts, true.
your assumption is wrong in this account:
Maybe 10 of the 100 girls will be virgin upon marriage, and while the sluts have 10 partners, the other 80 will have 5 partners, which will be divided amongst the alpha, not the beta, in a ration of 80-20 or 95-5, take your pick.
Am not going into math, but an example assumption will be that there is an 80% chance that the non-slut the 1of90 guy is marrying was already shared by the alphas, and while he may have 1-3 total partners, his girl will have 1-10 total partners, and the alpha will have 10-90 partners. the alpha may still end up marrying a non-slut girl, and my guess is, due to his status and due to his success with women, he is more likely to marry a virgin, or a very low count girl. Standards and options.
This numbering fits well with my experience.
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z.g. said, “Fuck us, and leave us.
Fuck us for free.
that’s what men want.”
My Dad told me that’s what boys want, not men, and that this was an easy way to distinguish between the two.
Was he wrong?
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Yes, he was.
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WelmerOnce mom is out of the picture you wouldn’t believe how many women throw themselves at single dads.
Actually I do, that’s why I was wondering why are you posting here. The same thing with Thursday*. Women love to throw themselves at male schoolteachers. The two of you should be swimming in puss as if you’re in the pacific. Contrary to popular opinion here, women really go for the carrying strong type. Some women will give men like the two of you some pu on GP, no strings attached.
I know several single dads, but I haven’t yet met one who gets a check from the children’s mother
Seriously, though, I love my kids, and would willingly shove even Giselle Bundchen in front of a bus to save them.
HA
*gives welmer some dap*
Being a daddy is pretty awesome, even though it does cut into the game thing.
Game being the chase because you shouldn’t have a shortage of women who are offering. BTW please don’t being your dates around your children until you are ready for a real relationship. You don’t want your daughter to think hoeing is normal.
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zdeno
Sara, you are slow and thick-headed. Stop posting your inanity and put your time into a more worthwhile project like starting your own softcore porn website. I promise I’ll link to it.
You’re right about two things. #1 That comment made me laugh and a little wet, but I would not fuck you for it. #2 I am slow and thick-headed.
BUT women may fuck assholes and “dig” them in the moment, but later usually hate them and never, ever truly love them. How could they? Now a man who acts like an asshole occasionally does not constitute the end of the world or a relationship necessarily, same as a women acting like a bitch occasionally should necessarily end a relationship, but ya’ll are not talking “relationships”, ya’lll are talking about exploitation of a women’s reproductive instinct and chemical bonding hormones. Same as many women will exploit a man’s biological drive to protect and provide by taking him to the cleaners. In both cases, they are asking for it.
Any questions?
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But the women cheat on their decent partners with assholes. You think it’s just “exploitation” on the part of the asshole when a woman does that? Doesn’t the woman bear some responsibility for it?
It isn’t like some poor little innocent girl just gets swept away by assholery. In fact, as a proud, modern woman she chooses it. That’s really the point, and it’s why Roissy has the advantage over you in this argument.
Give women the choice, and they just wreck things. You should be happy that you don’t have a son, because then you’d have to see the pain he’d be subjected to as an American male these days.
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kthulah
“My Dad told me that’s what boys want, not men, and that this was an easy way to distinguish between the two.
Was he wrong?”
He was born in a place where women don’t fuck around, where investment was necessary to get sex, and a father had right, and even then your father wanted sex with women when he was, say, under 30… He wanted lots of sex. Did he get it?
Apparently not, so he is backwards rationalizing.
Look, I want sex.
Lots of it.
I accept to work for it.
If everybody else is working.
The problem with dating promiscuous women is, the men before you, in majority, did not work to get sex, but you inevitably will, once you are in the relationship.
Now, with so many promiscuous women around, and so many secrets, do I want to date now?
No.
And considering that listening to a chick you met at night blabber for hours on a sunday morning is heavy work,
I say, I am happy when a woman comes, and leaves after I come.
That is what you women dont get into you fucking heads (no offense to you),
Saying:
“He meant nothing, it was just sex”
Means:
“He was better at you getting me wet, and I just rewarded him…”,
or even worse,
“You are better at making me wet, but since you committed, i need to be sure you will further invest in me, so I will be way more difficult than I was to any other male before you.. In other words, I punish you”
So, in her head, making you work is reward for you.
Thus,
Fuck me and leave me.
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Guys.
You are truly insane.
I can just picture you in front of me,, some relativley handsome guy in a white shirt, cool shoes, blue jeans and a black costume jacket. ( usually the outfit of an a-hole) Going out with his friends, honestly, 99% of the women takes a big circle around you, you are left naive innocent sweethearts or these 30 year old or above desperate women. Well i know by now that i should takes my high heels and run!
Im sure 1% is making you happy as well, meanwhile im having a great time with some real men, and so is my sexy girlfriends to!
If you could come out of this idiot macho shell that you obviously is doing because you wanna show off to your friends, that what a alfa whatewer you are.. Im sure youre not coz then you wouldnt need to proove yourself over and over. Basically,
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Sorry for the late post, but I missed z.g’s answer.
Women work for sex too. We can’t usually initiate, or else we’re assumed to be sluts or desperate, so we have to be attractive and socially adept to get laid. We have to be all that and socially convenient to get a guy to want to commit.
Then when you men get to be about 27 in the U.S. to 35 in healthier more active countries, we have to somehow keep those of you who do commit, interested in sex with someone you’ve been doing for some years already, who is aging right along with you.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s pretty childish to desire a situation where one is constantly given things they are unwilling to earn. What people in western countries don’t realize that people on this side of the world do, is that nobody is entitled to sex. To some degree you’re entitled to love from your mom and friends, but sex is one of those survival things connected to reproduction, so nobody owes anyone that at all.
For the sake of having a somewhat civil society, western cultures have found a way to democratize sex to some degree by explicit enforcement of monogamy, and holding this up as an attainable ideal for everyone. It is a noble pursuit, to be sure, but realistic it is not for the vast majority. In some cases, such as when there is a shortage of suitable mates of either gender to go around, it can even be harmful.
This is why the “fuck me and leave me” guys just get left by me. It’s just not worth the physical risk for aerobic exercise that I can do much more efficiently in a vertical position to some Amr Diab.
Thank goodness for prostitutes.
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Hey – just thought I’d let you know that the asshole game has … changed my life.
I’m generally in the be-friendly be-nice guy mode which sometimes works and often doesn’t. Two weeks ago I was reading these asshole posts and I thought, hey fuck it, I’m going to try it.
That night was out at friends going-away drinks and there was incredibly hot Swedish girl there. Normal approach: be friendly, talk, be animated, etc etc. I went with asshole game all the way.
I ignored her. I insulted her looks (her friend asked her to take a photo of them together. I did and said it was too bad neither of them photographed well. Got the playful smack on the shoulder). I walked off while she was talking and when I came back, went to talk to other girls.
Within 20 minutes she was so hot and bothered she was following me around the bar. She tried to buy me a drink but I turned her down and walked off again.
By the end of the night she was squirming in her seat she was so hot for me.
I took control at end of night and hailed a taxi out on the road. She and her friend came along. After her friend got dropped off, Swedish girl was trying everything. I kissed her in the cab and when dropping her off she wanted my number. I told her to find me on facebook and was about the most abrupt and mean I’ve ever been.
Email from her came next day. Ignored her. Ignored next email. Unavailable etc.
I had to fight my natural instincts which were to call her, to email her, blah blah.
Anyways, kept it up until taking control and telling her to come over on Friday night with two bottle of wine. Gave her my address and no phone number.
She turned up on time, with wine, in an incredibly hot black dress. I was in jeans and t-shirt like I didn’t give a fuck.
The asshole game got me my brains fucked out by this girl who I can easily say is hotter than any girl I’ve ever been with.
Now it’s afterwards and I’m ignoring her emails, only replying in short messages and she is desperately trying to arrange another hookup.
I kid you not … the asshole game is my new religion. I feel like everything I’ve been doing in the past was wrong and now I’ve seen the light.
cheers
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Congratulations on getting what you want, Mat.
An angel has gotten her wings 🙂
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[…] Game that still take me aback when I use them in the field and their awesome power is demonstrated. Asshole game is one. Negs are another. And to this day I’m surprised how admitting a vulnerability about […]
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whiskey said: “The steady trends now have been to assholes because male cooperation has been unimportant in social/economic success.”
I wonder how much social change is a result of pure social construction, and how much is the result of hormone changes brought on by the pill. Google “birth control pill” + “mate selection” , or “mentrual cycle” + “mate selection”.
The pill certainly alters mate selection, and not merely be women having control over becoming pregnant. It may be that the battle of the sexes won’t be much altered by game – women will want what their hormones tell them to want.
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whiskey said: “The steady trends now have been to assholes because male cooperation has been unimportant in social/economic success.”
I wonder how much social change is a result of pure social construction, and how much is the result of hormone changes brought on by the pill. Google “birth control pill” + “mate selection” , or “mentrual cycle” + “mate selection”.
The pill certainly alters mate selection, and not merely be women having control over becoming pregnant. It may be that the battle of the sexes won’t be much altered by game – women will want what their hormones tell them to want.
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Tupac said: “If women were genetically engineered to shun violent men, the human race might have died out long ago.”
Or more specifically, that person’s tribe would have never had a chance to gain the resources of other tribes, or fight off other tribes, and so would likely never had a chance to be born.
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Whiskey said: “The Western way of War depends on…”
It depends on risk taking generals and obedient soldiers. Society is stratified, especially war societies. We are colonies, like bees, or ants, and colonies need specialists. Healthy colonies need betas, as well as alphas.
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11minutes said: “…Enough social proof gets even an omega laid.
This goes well with other female’s attraction being what is selected for, and speaks against the risk taking behavior selection theory.”
Women don’t always use long-term-provider-ability in mate selection, because they know that if they both attractive and high social status among other women, they can replace a lost mate. Therefore, there is little penalty to losing a risk taking husband to death or financial crisis.
Risk taking behaviour is sexually selected for, because women can dump a poorly performing mate, or find a new one when his risks kill him. And, of course, it is the risk takers who win the big rewards. Only the risk takers.
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By the way – the reason women gossip and purchase expensive shoes, is because women allow each other and the males access. They control the social discourse. High status women are the matrons, with a huge voice over who gets to marry who. Women need status to be able to both push away other women (with the support of her “friends”), and to keep a man in line by community peer pressure.
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Loved your website!
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[…] does beat down game work? Answer: It’s asshole game x100. And it’s particularly effective on the hottest, most desirable chicks. In Darwinian terms, […]
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[…] cocky game can deaden its positive impact on a woman’s psyche. She will come to see you as a genuine asshole instead of an attractive asshole. After a few months training your girlfriend, you can minimize your cocky game in favor of sincere […]
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[…] first thing to go when you have stopped gaming girls is your asshole game. Asshole game is like the dick in the coalmine. When it goes flaccid, you’ve got big problems on the […]
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Alot of times i go out with women who ive has sex with in the past who now consider me a “friend”, (something i dont believe in : Female friends)
We go to out , i use them as wing women, without their knowledge . Im an asshole around em and random women at throw themselves at me. and when i get a number i just act like i dont care like its something normal for me, and after that i manage to get atleast 5 numbers in one night as a bonus at the end of the night the so called “friend” is so pissed that is wanting to fuck me too in the car because she sees all the attention i get . And its not because of all the nice things i do, i just act like myself, like a dick,
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lol lsd25 no shit right what the fuck is wrong with em. You can be a quadrapalegic asshole and still pick up chicks.
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I try to hamstring myself and be nice though.
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Cause I can’t make you love me if you don’t
You can’t make your heart feel something it won’t
Here in the dark, in these final hours
I will lay down my heart; I’ll feel the power
But you won’t. No, you won’t.
‘Cause I can’t make you love me if you don’t.
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absensce makes the heart grow fonder.
Out of Sight,
Out of mind.
left my ball and chain behind
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He is not having sex with you omw because he really does love you and can no longer picture trying to destroy your pussy. Or yea once you lose some weight he prob will start going to work again it will rejuvenate.
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Just a song, darling. Sometimes you forget how beautiful the old standards really are till it’s been awhile. Speakin’ of absence, and all.
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Just like men like a woman who is a whore in the bedroom and a lady on the outside. A man has to make a difference between a woman he loves mother of his kids woman whom he respects and woman in the bedroom. It is not easy to do.
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Also, speaking of trying to get people to love you, who just don’t. You can be an asshole, or a stone-cold bitch, or follow the rules or break ’em, or go on some diet or get a nose job or sew your vagina all-but-shut, or ascend the career ladder or spend your free time studying pickup.
You still can’t make ’em love you, if they don’t.
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Different for men I suppose which kind of makes me lucky.
Talk to your man about life. Talk about future. Talk about things. Might as well create something with him.
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It is funny and sad and easy and hard.
For instance life is technically easy for you right now. You want to make it harder with three kids.
Take the business challenge.
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[…] Looking back on those times when my pickup attempts intersected with my hangovers, I have to say this sounds right. There is gold to be mined in hangover game. The reader hit upon the main reason hangover game works — it turns you into a surly asshole. […]
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[…] back in January, Roissy posted on asshole game, writing this: There are genuine assholes who are loved, and there are spiteful assholes who get nowhere. The […]
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[…] if you want to bang the HOTTEST babes, learn uncaring asshole game. The hotter the girl, the more she will tingle for an unrepentant asshole. Corollary: if you want […]
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[…] particularly the hottest chicks men want to fuck the most, are irresistibly drawn to assholes. Uncaring assholes, to be exact. There is a simple explanation for why so many men of varying virtue and character and […]
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[…] game is the ultimate expression of aloof and indifferent Uncaring Asshole game. We all know how much hot chicks moisten up for a self-absorbed man who doesn’t take them […]
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I think you’re overanalyzing a little. She was interested because your actions showed that you weren’t at all interested in her. I wouldn’t call this “asshole” behavior but simply “uninterested” behavior. You weren’t behaving like an asshole, you weren’t behaving like anything, you simply didn’t care. So I think the keyword is “uncaring” and you can just leave the asshole part of it out because it’s superfluous.
If you truly don’t give a rat’s ass, you may behave like an asshole but that’s only a symptom of your lack of caring, it need not be mentioned in the analysis.
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[…] […]
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[…] to a three day bangathon. FF should have been able to surmise, then, that Amy would need hardcore uncaring asshole game to keep her slut train rolling on his […]
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