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Chateau Heartiste

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Feigning Beta Provider

January 28, 2009 by CH

If you run solid attraction game but your rapport is weak (usually due to time constraints or a loud environment not conducive to sitting down and getting more conversational with a girl), there is a higher chance she will flake not because she’s uninterested, but because she suspects you may be a player who will love her and leave her. The positive but superficial emotions that an exciting player instills in her quickly dissolve once she’s back home and decompressing. Emotions generated from rapport are longer lasting if for no other reason than that they are unique to her — most men will not have the skill or knowledge to successfully engage a girl in deep conversation on the first meet. This is why nearly all masters of seduction stress that the comfort stage (or “day 2 stage”) is 90% of getting a woman into bed.

One thing you’ll notice if you occasionally date women in their late 20s is an uptick in flaking brought on by a volatile psychodramatic mixture of getting burned in the past by badboys and their biological clocks pushing them to find stable, paternally inclined men. None of these things are conscious decisions; her actions are the manifestation of subconscious forces.

Beta provider has a bad connotation, but in fact women, especially those past a certain age and feeling the forlorn pangs of their empty wombs, have a part of them that is attracted to such men. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to identify which of the women you date are genuinely interested in signs from you that you would make a good husband and father, and to feign the signals that would peg you as a beta provider. This means attenuating your cad game and emphasizing your dad game.

I had a day 2 with a sexy late 20s woman I approached in a bar. We had kissed within 20 minutes. She wanted me to call her and demonstrated this when she held up her hand to her ear in the shape of a phone as I was walking out of the bar. I called two days later and got her voicemail. She never replied. Flake. A week later, I was able to reverse her flake with a virtually foolproof text I discovered in the course of my social experimentation. More on that another time. We met a few days afterward. The first words out of her mouth as we were sitting across each other on our first “formal” date were “I don’t usually make out with guys in bars. I had too many free drinks that night.”

Nevermind the veracity of her statement. It’s irrelevant. Her words carried more weight than she could have imagined. She flaked because she felt slutty for kissing me in a bar. Later in the date, she mentioned that she had a history of choosing the “wrong guys”. Coupled with her body language, fashion sense (conservative) and her documented anti-slut flake, this was all the information I needed to adjust my game for maximum id penetration. I quickly assessed her psychological dimensions:

  • likely pump and dump victim
  • likely dumped by a long term BF she thought was “the one”
  • is running from her slutty past
  • has attracted players in the past and now fears getting attached to them
  • is keenly aware of any signs that a man may be a player
  • distrusts her own sexual impetus
  • will test me for provider attributes

What I did:

  • talked about my nieces and nephews and how much they loved it when I visited
  • pared back my cocky funny game
  • skipped the negs
  • wore a business suit (minus tie)
  • discussed future oriented subjects like “goals in life” and “where do you see yourself in five years?”
  • remembered a few critical details about her from our first meeting in the bar which I sprinkled into our conversation
  • told her I’m “happy with my career“
  • slowed down my kino progression
  • made sure our seats were in a corner of the bar where people wouldn’t see us kissing

Naturally, for most guys, acting like a beta provider isn’t much of a stretch. But if you’re good at attracting random girls you’ll find that in time you lose touch with the “softer” side of yourself. Newly graduated players often nurse an incoherent fear of seeming too beta, so they compensate too far in the other direction. This is why when men fail to get a woman into bed the cause is more often the result of a bad day 2, and not the initial meet.

One more thing. The snare of beta provider game only works after your alpha cred has been firmly cemented in her mind. So don’t go thinking you can put on the halo before the horns have lured her in.

beta-angel

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Posted in Beta, Game | 129 Comments

129 Responses

  1. on January 28, 2009 at 1:21 pm ironrailsironweights

    Here’s something new … a support group for girlfriends of now-financially-stressed investment bankers.

    Peter

    LikeLike


  2. on January 28, 2009 at 1:25 pm Carl Sagan

    Solid advice.

    LikeLike


  3. on January 28, 2009 at 1:30 pm dick fuel

    pertinent.

    LikeLike


  4. on January 28, 2009 at 1:33 pm Ambiance

    I’d love to know more about your “virtually foolproof text”, always working on new techniques and routines to improve my phone/text game.

    LikeLike


  5. on January 28, 2009 at 1:35 pm RF Interference

    Solid advice, but I’m now more interested in defending myself from knife-attacks than I am picking up late-twentysomthings.

    LikeLike


  6. on January 28, 2009 at 1:38 pm Royal

    Of course… most men go straight into beta provider mode without laying the groundwork first. Here’s a handy guide:

    Sending a woman flowers at work after you’ve been dating her for six months = romantic

    Sending a woman flowers at work after you’ve been on one date = creepy

    LikeLike


  7. on January 28, 2009 at 1:40 pm PA

    You seriously should start a T-shirt line. This picture is priceless.

    LikeLike


  8. on January 28, 2009 at 1:41 pm PA

    The T-shirt caption shoudl be exactly what you wrote:

    “don’t go thinking you can put on the halo before the horns have lured her in.”

    LikeLike


  9. on January 28, 2009 at 1:45 pm levi johnston

    To supplement the NYTimes article about vapid whores that Peter posted:

    “Overnight, he went from unavailable to downright clingy. He wants to have dinner every night. By dinner I mean staying in and cooking as Megu is no longer in the budget. . . . Anyhow, he suggested I meet his parents over the holidays and he keeps commenting that half Asian babies are by far the cutest. My take on his 180: having no steady source of income for the foreseeable future, he realized that his chances of securing another fashion industry type girl are pretty much zilch and so he is cleaving to me as the last vestige of his former high rolling lifestyle.

    Thanks to the recession, I now have a completely devoted BF, which is exactly what I wanted. So I should be happy, right? Wrong. I’m bored and can’t stop thinking about my perpetually unattainable Euro ex-boyfriend who is recession proof courtesy of an offshore trust account. To be honest, I’m only with my BF because I just don’t have the heart to change my facebook status from “in a relationship” to “I ain’t saying I’m a gold digger, but I ain’t messin’ with no broke banker.”

    http://dabagirls.wordpress.com/

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  10. on January 28, 2009 at 1:54 pm Sebastian Flyte

    Mehow has developed a new, more high paced version of the comfort phase.

    LikeLike


  11. on January 28, 2009 at 2:05 pm Cannon's Canon

    I am pretty confident that the text was a multimedia gif image of freshly bic’ed ballbag with the message “suck it.”

    LikeLike


  12. on January 28, 2009 at 2:12 pm 3point5

    Love the sketch – So what you’re saying is act the beta to hide the alpha…keen…

    Late 20 somethings are right up my alley…

    (please share) this foolproof txt??

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  13. on January 28, 2009 at 2:23 pm lf

    “Later in the date, she mentioned that she had a history of choosing the ‘wrong guys’.”

    Hard not to feel sorry for the poor girl, if everything Roissy picked up on was true. I’m reasonably sure that a few lays don’t justify destroying a vulnerable person, whatever she looks like. I’ve met other girls whose behavior screams for this kind of treatment; this doesn’t sound like one of them.

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  14. on January 28, 2009 at 2:28 pm kthulah

    Peter and Levi…all I can say about that is like goes to like. Pimps and whores suit one another. When things go wrong, I have trouble feeling sorry for either side.

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  15. on January 28, 2009 at 2:30 pm kthulah

    If, an addict will steal from their mother to get drugs.

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  16. on January 28, 2009 at 2:32 pm jkc

    i’m as curious as the rest of y’all, but i don’t think Roissy will share the text. he doesn’t want to give away ALL his secrets…

    LikeLike


  17. on January 28, 2009 at 2:36 pm bodyposture

    the body posture of your stick figure is supreme alpha.

    you have covered all the bases.

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  18. on January 28, 2009 at 2:50 pm i smile 2 much

    Spot on. I totally agree. Especially your “what you did” list. Most women never see this as game so they buy right into it.

    A good text I rec’d recently was “you’re thinkin about me right now arent you”

    And whats even better…. (classic) is that a guy doesnt even hafto use her name in the text. Wont even make a difference. (Sad but true)

    Because most girls luv gettin this kinda stuff. Even if he does use it on 10 other girls in the same day. Girls (most, I mean and I’m generalizing) will buy right into it. And she’ll never know she was 1 of many.

    When you said:

    “Newly graduated players often nurse an incoherent fear of seeming too beta, so they compensate too far in the other direction.”

    Soooooo right you are. Like you said, and I agree: its imperative to switch it back to the beta tendencies to ensure the next step~

    Keep it up~ A very smart man, you are 😉

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  19. on January 28, 2009 at 2:55 pm Cannon's Canon

    Great ideas here. I’m likely guilty of over-playing my alpha hand as one of these “new graduates.” The important distinction is the girl’s age and ensuing mindset.

    I’m reminded of an inner game lesson I heard from a pickup coach in NYC. You should frame yourself in an appealing way to maximize a girl’s reaction to your life story. His example: he describes himself as an entrepreneur rather than a pickup coach. Without lying or embellishing, he’s made himself a much more ‘date-able’ prospect.

    To a great extent, girls are looking for the archetype of man who maximizes their situation. In high school, the jock is the stereotype ‘best guy available’ who really fulfills a girl’s high school experience. In college, the most appealing bracket of men are the very social ‘frat boys’ who are always up for a party. By a girl’s late 20’s, the mindset shifts toward husband/father material. This is not to say that men are required to fit these bills, but they will be more successful with more women if they can incorporate a portion of the fanciful ideal in their presentation of themselves.

    But 22 year old girls will continue to get my edgiest pure alpha asshole game.

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  20. on January 28, 2009 at 2:59 pm sara I

    there is a higher chance she will flake not because she’s uninterested, but because she suspects you may be a player who will love her and leave her.

    “Love” her and leave her? Good grief.

    LikeLike


  21. on January 28, 2009 at 3:00 pm Fr. O'Shaugnessey

    I am glad I am celibate,what with all this beta and alpha shit! Fuck dat! I goss my porn an’ I am rockin’ some wine and feelin’ no pain! Bitch!

    LikeLike


  22. on January 28, 2009 at 3:08 pm lurker

    God, I love game, but I’ve just gotten too damn lazy. If a woman isn’t going home with me the first night I meet her, it’s just not worth it to invest the time and possible money on date 1,2 or 3 to sleep with her. I used to be up for it, now I just don’t give a crap.

    That’s not to insult the alphas here (esp. roissy) who are working it. I did once, now I’m pretty lazy. The benefit of my game now is that the women I end up with are perfect booty call material, which is all I’m looking for: any woman going home with you on the first night is up for sex anytime, which is exactly what I want.

    The downside? Diminished pool, probably worse looking (although they’re little cuties).

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  23. on January 28, 2009 at 3:28 pm Kick a Bitch

    Roissy is quite the MS Paint artist. Mad skills…

    LikeLike


  24. on January 28, 2009 at 3:30 pm Thursday

    With girls in social circles that disapprove of non-marital sex, you can quite easily overplay your sexy side. It’s not that they don’t like it, they do, and you can tell, but they’re often afraid they aren’t going to be able to resist you and thus devalue themselves on the marriage market in those circles.

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  25. on January 28, 2009 at 3:35 pm Fabian

    Damn good post.

    LikeLike


  26. on January 28, 2009 at 3:50 pm lurker

    You know what? At first I was feeling bad for a girl in this position. She didn’t seem like the kind of slut who deserved to have roissy break her in half.

    But then I realized she was just the attempted reformed slut type–the one who used to have 3somes with one night stands, and now thinks she can “put her past behind her” and give you blue balls and follow the rules.

    Fuck that slut.

    If you’re going to be a good girl, be a good girl. You do it from the start.

    But once you’ve become a whore, trying to blue ball anyone in the future is worse than being a ball-busting harpy from the start.

    Ladies, if you want to snag a quality man, but you’ve been a whore, here’s a tip: you’re going to do everything you did before, but more and better for your man. Did you fuck a stranger on the beach at Cabo? Now your man’s doing you on the bar during spring break. Did you make a video once with an ex? Now we’re starting a website. Oh, did you have 3somes? Now its 4 and 5somes–what some sluts like to call “a reverse gangbang” but is really just giving him what he deserves—and with different girls, and at least once a month. Call your friends and buy the ecstacy.

    And he’s going to sleep with other women. You can do that openly or in secret. Regular girls or escorts. But he’s going to have other women while you’re dating/married, because you couldn’t keep your legs closed. Too bad.

    And cook and clean his castle like Betty fucking Crocker meets Martha Stewart. In heels.

    And if you can’t handle that, tough. You bought into all the feminist “women can have sex like men” bs while you were young and you knew it was crap. No going back now.

    Then again, there’s always your cat and your aching empty womb and that cold spot in the bed next to you as you hug your pillow….

    roissy, I salute you.

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  27. on January 28, 2009 at 4:05 pm Jane

    You’re good. Really good.

    But all this scheming and manipulating just to get a girl in bed? Not as impressive.

    Why not just go for the promiscuous ones so at least you’re on the same page?

    No one likes being played.

    I hope everyone uses their knowledge wisely.

    “With great powers comes great responsibility.”
    ~Spiderman!!!!

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  28. on January 28, 2009 at 4:05 pm Beta guy

    Aren’t you turning into kind of a scumbag here Roissy ? Why not keep your affections for the legitimate bar girls ? I like your blog (mostly the paleo-con commenters) but I don’t like reading about you being bad. Bring out your inner heart of gold (really).

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  29. on January 28, 2009 at 4:17 pm gig

    one of the best posts ever.

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  30. on January 28, 2009 at 4:19 pm Lance

    how does lurker comment so much while he’s busy hugging roissy’s nuts?

    I would never try to mack on roissy’s estimable game.

    That’s not to insult the alphas here (esp. roissy)…

    roissy, I salute you.

    lurker = chester

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  31. on January 28, 2009 at 4:25 pm Ben

    Great comment lurker.

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  32. on January 28, 2009 at 4:57 pm Anonymous

    Stupid comment lurker. Under that theory, betas who want to reform and gain some balls should instead just give it up, and try to beta and friend their way into women’s pants, only even more so. The same way a beta can see the error of his ways and try to do things a different way that leads to the results that he wants, why not a women. It seems that everyone has been fed the same myths, and why keep doing the same thing if it isn’t getting you want you want? Or can only men repent?

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  33. on January 28, 2009 at 5:03 pm kthulah

    Anonymous, though some would argue that a man being wussy is less of a sin than being a slut, both reduce a person’s value to the opposite sex.

    Getting used like a rag is getting used like a rag…and if a guy has a history of that, he has a potential of relapsing. A guy who wants a bitch should go find himself one. A guy who wants to be treated well doesn’t put up with getting treated like crap.

    It’s a tough call though…which is worse.

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  34. on January 28, 2009 at 5:37 pm Obsidian

    Yo R, Good Money, man. That’s wassup.

    O

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  35. on January 28, 2009 at 5:41 pm lurker

    Anonymous:

    “Under that theory, betas who want to reform and gain some balls should instead just give it up, and try to beta and friend their way into women’s pants, only even more so”

    —Men are not sluts, unless they are gay bottoms. But we are in the realm of heterosexuality here. Men who sleep around are alpha kings.

    “The same way a beta can see the error of his ways and try to do things a different way that leads to the results that he wants, why not a women.”

    —Women and men are treated differently for a reason. The double standard is not artificially imposed, but a biological imperative if both men and women expect their offspring to survive. Don’t like it?

    A woman doesn’t see the error of her ways; she merely re-calibrates her actions to fool a man into marriage. Smart men see right through that b.s.

    “It seems that everyone has been fed the same myths”

    —Feminist Alert!

    “Or can only men repent?”

    —No man “repents” from sleeping around. Men who sleep around are socially validated for having the genes women want to spread.

    Women who sleep around are worthless sluts with low self-worth who don’t care about their children. Women cannot “repent” this behavior to anyone but J.C., Muhammad, or whatever religion they subscribe to.

    The Scarlet letter “S” applies to women. Alphas are not going end up with some dried up, used up cavernous pussied whore unless they get more than any other man has gotten from her x10. You don’t buy the whore when you can rent her for free.

    Welcome to reality. Deal with it, woman.

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  36. on January 28, 2009 at 5:44 pm kthulah

    Lurker, she wasn’t talking about sleeping around.

    She was talking about being a punk.

    Heheheheh…

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  37. on January 28, 2009 at 5:48 pm z

    Ive got a younger cousin who used to bang several impossibly hot babes, but he is in a rough period in life now because he job hopped for years, got a couple of felonies, and is starting to look his age.

    His biggest problem? He’s broke, making weak money, and living in an apartment in a rough part of town, driving a very pedestrian vehicle.

    His biggest gripe? “All women do is ask me what I do for a living (putting in cable at the moment—he’s burned a lot of bridges in the businesses he’s been in over the years), why I dont have a house yet, how much money I make”
    All the drinking nights out, all the dope (this guy smokes A LOT of marijuana), the bar tabs, the extreme vacations (he takes one about every business quarter), the dinners out (eats fast food about every damned meal), car leasing (always had to drive the latest), job-hopping (gets fired for his smart mouth—he’s a big intimidating guy), are catching up with him financially.

    Basically he is 31, hasn’t saved a dime for retirement, the sun-worshipping is making him look his age, the dope has taken its toll, and the economy is finishing it off. When meeting women within a few years of his age, they (OF COURSE) are starting to think about having a kid to shut their moms up, and getting a husband. My cousin has not prepared himself for this financially at all. I really doubt he has even got 10 thousand in the bank and no wealth other than some extreme boarding/fishing/kayak/hunting/skiing/outdoor-everything- equipment. The hot babes are gone, and now everytime I see him he has a burned-out-looking skanky tatoo chick du jour around who isn’t even cute. This guy had uber-babes as recently as six or seven years ago.

    The older you get, the more important money becomes to them. The more you will be asked “how long have you owned your house?” “Did you put your house on 15 years, I put mine on 30 but I wished I could have put it on 15” (means she is trying to figure out how much equity you have. “My 401K company is X and my employer only matches 2%, how much does you employer match for you?”
    “Been in your plan long?”
    By the time they are 32 or so, especially if they are childless, they are looking HARD for money and stability, and will try and isolate you within weeks of dating you.

    They can fuck a younger player on the side any time who will let them come over their house on Tuesday or Wedsday night and cook them dinner bang and leave, but will play Ms. Etiquette with her intended mark, oops I mean, fiancee’-material-boyfriend the rest of the week.

    It gets like this as you get older and one has to adjust.

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  38. on January 28, 2009 at 5:53 pm bbass

    There’s a real taste of misogyny and pure bile going on here. Say that Roissy and Lurker are talking about roughly the same girl – a “reformed slut” whose biological clock is ticking, and is now looking for all those “beta” characteristics – stability, willingness to have children, etc., and is trying to stay away from the “bad boys.”

    Isn’t that exactly what you wanted in the first place?

    This whole “game” thing tends to justify itself as the natural response to women saying they want one thing (respect, stability, “niceness”) and actually going for another (dominant attitudes, high social value, assholishness, etc.) But somehow, if they realize the error of their ways, they’re even more of a target, and people like Lurker feel even more justified in literally and metaphorically fucking them over. They even go so far as to intentionally hold out hope for an actual relationship they have no intention of pursuing, wasting the time of women whose “clocks” (christ, I’m beginning to hate that expression) tick out.

    It all seems rather hateful and vaguely sociopathic.

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  39. on January 28, 2009 at 5:54 pm kthulah

    Z how DARE you speak such blasphemy! Don’t you know that a man’s sex appeal *increases* with age?

    Nah actually, maybe the tattoo chicks are better for him than the hot ones were. Maybe they’re less materialistic, and unless he’s going to get rich sometime soon, it’ll do so long as he doesn’t knock someone up who wouldn’t be a good mother and companion.

    If they all have hoe personalities though, then well…he just went from a higher class of hoe to a class he can afford now. Don’t fault him for that.

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  40. on January 28, 2009 at 5:59 pm kthulah

    No, bbas, it’s not sociopathic. It’s addiction.

    No addict really likes their dealer. For some guys (not sure about Roissy, but maybe Lurker) women are the dealers, and their vaginas the drug. To get the drug they have to go through the dealer. Emotionally, this is only incidental. The real prize is contained in the bag between her legs.

    Their hope of gaining some control of the situation is articulated in addict terms. They believe that if they are the dealers in control of the flow of pussy, then they will get the fulfilment they crave.

    Someone ought to tell them that you can’t be a dealer and a user at the same time.

    For that matter, many women need to learn the same. 😉

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  41. on January 28, 2009 at 5:59 pm Patrick Bateman

    I fucking love it.

    If you were once a whore, you’ll always be garbage in my book.

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  42. on January 28, 2009 at 6:02 pm Redbeard

    Those banker girlfriends…..I try to avoid thinking people can be pure evil, but that picture…..I thought I was looking at a coven of Satan-worshipping baby-eaters.

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  43. on January 28, 2009 at 6:05 pm Steve Johnson

    “The same way a beta can see the error of his ways and try to do things a different way that leads to the results that he wants, why not a women.”

    Women don’t want men who are weak. Solution: stop being weak.

    Men don’t want women who aren’t hot, are old or are sluts. Solution: find a man when your market value is the highest… at 22 or so. At 22 you’re not getting any hotter, less experienced or younger.

    “It seems that everyone has been fed the same myths, and why keep doing the same thing if it isn’t getting you want you want? Or can only men repent?”

    Men can “repent” as you put it because women are looking at a man’s character. A man who learns game is much more attractive than that same man before he learns game.

    Women can’t “repent” because being slutty is a sign (the map is not the territory) that she’s not LTR material. It’s also tough to “repent” of being 30.

    bbass –

    The bitter beta attitude is that they don’t want the women who want them.

    The player attitude is that the women who are desperately trying to settle because they’ve “learned” aren’t worth settling with. They haven’t really learned, they’ve simply slipped in sexual market value and recognize it (which usually takes a while, women are really good at self-deception).

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  44. on January 28, 2009 at 6:06 pm kthulah

    Patrick, in time I came to feel the same about wusses. What’s your opinion of a man who consistently allows himself to get used as a credit card or gopher for a hoe?

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  45. on January 28, 2009 at 6:16 pm kthulah

    Steve, getting married at 22 is no guarantee that the guy will stay with you. I think this needs to be clear.

    A woman should never ever ever ever ever depend on any man for a stable future. By the same, no man should ever depend on a woman that much either.

    If things go well then great, you were fortunate. If they don’t go well though, having a soft cushion of *your own* money sure makes it easier to say and mean, “I don’t want anything from you except my freedom.”

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  46. on January 28, 2009 at 6:17 pm Seeking Alpha

    A woman should never ever ever ever ever depend on any man for a stable future.

    kthulah, so you’re against any woman being a homemaker?

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  47. on January 28, 2009 at 6:23 pm kthulah

    Seeking, I’m against any woman being a fool.

    If you can afford to be a full time home maker, be one. Otherwise, work at home or switch shifts with hubby.

    Never let a man convince you that it’s okay for a grown person not to pull their weight. The more dependent you are, the more devastating it’ll be to you and your kids if he gets a taste for hoes 5 years down the line.

    Been there. It’s good to have skills.

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  48. on January 28, 2009 at 6:23 pm Steve Johnson

    Steve, getting married at 22 is no guarantee that the guy will stay with you. I think this needs to be clear.

    The Earth could be hit by an asteroid the size of Texas tomorrow, killing all life; there are no guarantees about anything in this world. Deciding to clean out your bank account and spend the money on hookers and blow because of that chance is still a bad idea.

    Failing to play the odds is stupid.

    As a woman, you’re never more valuable as a long term partner to a man than you are at 22.

    Ask your grandmother how to pick a good man if you don’t know (and at 22, the odds are really good you don’t).

    And yeah, if you’re born ugly and a woman, learn a trade.

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  49. on January 28, 2009 at 6:32 pm kthulah

    Steve…for one day, I wish you could live in my world…hide in the wardrobe for 24 hours or something.

    Apparently, telling the truth doesn’t fly well around here. You have to see things for yourselves.

    I know three women pretty did not protect.

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  50. on January 28, 2009 at 6:42 pm Steve Johnson

    Me:

    “Failing to play the odds is stupid.”

    You:

    “I know three women pretty did not protect.”

    Wow. Three huh?

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  51. on January 28, 2009 at 6:56 pm Anonymous

    All women (and men)get old sooner or later, if they are lucky. So marrying at 22 is no shield against someone dumping you for the newer model when you are 30. Women have learned this, which is why so many women refuse to be homemakers anymore, and at the mercy of some fickle human being that thinks you are worthless once you acquire wrinkles. This way, if all else fails, they can at least rely on themselves.

    At 22, most men and women are extremely bad at evaluating prospects for long-term partners. Men value flashy presentation and ease over natural beauty and devotion, while women at that age value facile charm and good looks over stability and fidelity. As people mature, they can better evaluate what a good long-term partner looks like, skills which are very lacking in most 22 year old people.

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  52. on January 28, 2009 at 7:00 pm kthulah

    Yes, Steve. Would you like to know my relationship to these women?

    One is blonde, slender Russian woman with big boobs, and round hips. I’d put her at a media 10.

    Another is a fake blonde, but slender Arab woman with substantial boobs, goodly round hips but not too weighty. I’d put her at an 8 because of the butt and the fakeness of the blondeness.

    …and lastly, a cute former Thai bargirl. She looks good and is quite slim, but curvy in the right places. Her skin is somewhat tan, a little on the darker yellowish tan side. I’d class her as an 8 because now she’s almost 30.

    Do you know what all these women have in common?

    LikeLike


  53. on January 28, 2009 at 8:00 pm Steve Johnson

    “Do you know what all these women have in common?”

    They’re outliers that you shouldn’t use as an example to base important life decisions on?

    Look as a woman, you’re value on the market peaks at 22. If you’re unattractive for some reason (fat) at 22, it’s not likely that you’ll summon up the willpower to change what’s holding you back (ben & jerry) when you’re older. If you do, congratulations, you’re an exception. Don’t bet your entire life on you being an exception.

    There are always exceptions to every rule about people. Every rule.

    Anonymous-

    “At 22, most men and women are extremely bad at evaluating prospects for long-term partners.”

    Well no shit. That’s why grandmothers exist. Women need that wisdom because by 33 they may know that they want a provider but what provider wants a 33 year old?

    “Men value flashy presentation and ease over natural beauty and devotion, while women at that age value facile charm and good looks over stability and fidelity.”

    Uh what? Men value “flashy presentation and ease”? Really? Men always value beauty and fidelity. You’re thinking of women. Think about women in college. Less put together women you cannot find. It’s an effort for them to put on anything but pajamas it seems (judging from the NYU girls who walk the streets in my ‘hood). Yet men go for them. Cougars are more about “flashy presentation” in that they wear skin tight jeans, flashy brand name stuff, etc. yet dudes don’t pass up freshmen for 30 year olds.

    Men that age know what they want but it’s too damned much fun being a player when you know tons of 20 year old women and they’re all easy.

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  54. on January 28, 2009 at 8:18 pm Anonymous

    How many 22 year old people listen to the wisdom of their grandmother? Especially since at this point grandma probably was dumped by her husband sometime back in the 70’s/80’s, and had to scramble herself to have some sort of living standard? What grandmothers are advising girls these days is to make sure they have their own money, and their own career. Twenty-two years old is just too young for most people to have a fulfilling, happy marriage together, especially as more people are living longer than before.

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  55. on January 28, 2009 at 8:38 pm kthulah

    Steve answers, “They’re outliers that you shouldn’t use as an example to base important life decisions on?”

    More like cautionary cases…

    “Look as a woman, you’re value on the market peaks at 22. If you’re unattractive for some reason (fat) at 22, it’s not likely that you’ll summon up the willpower to change what’s holding you back (ben & jerry) when you’re older. If you do, congratulations, you’re an exception. Don’t bet your entire life on you being an exception.”

    Well, I wasn’t fat at 22, but if someone is different, that is their life and they’d best learn to live with it. It makes more sense for a fat, disabled, or otherwise non mainstream or even defective looking girl to learn to roll with the punches of life rather than giving up on herself because she doesn’t look like the herd says a woman should.

    Sucks to be playing a game in which one is a loser by default.

    “There are always exceptions to every rule about people. Every rule.”

    Yes, but when something happens regularly (like death or illness or cheating or divorce), one can’t well call it so much of an exception.

    One has to think long term about long term relationships, and prepare for the bumps in the road of life.

    I wouldn’t advise any woman, no matter how she looked, to become overly dependent on someone who’s likely to dump her when she “hits the wall”.

    I’m just advising women not to drop the soap.

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  56. on January 28, 2009 at 8:38 pm RagTag

    listening to an opinion from kthulah on anything related to women is like asking Roissy for the benefits of marriage. Clinking on the link to your blog reveals pics of a very overweight black women. You are talking about getting married at age 22. I doubt you’ve ever been married, and if you have/are, I’m positive its to an o m e g a.

    Barring major weight gain since you were younger, you have no experience in anything you are talking about. Besides maybe by living vicariously through your 3 hot friends. Get off the keyboard – you are roughly 25% of the comments today – and hit the treadmill. Maybe you can get your weight down and gain some real-world experience in the matters at hand.

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  57. on January 28, 2009 at 8:43 pm nutcase troll posting verbal vomit

    Eh…RagTag, you want a little catfight action?

    On your virtual left, there’s a sign that reads, “Go suck a dick,” and one on the right that says, “We think before we type.”

    Guess which one you can stand under?

    Nice crowd forming over there. In awhile, there might even be enough to constitute a herd…or at least fill a bandwagon.

    [PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE INSANE LOSER TROLL. THANK YOU.]

    LikeLike


  58. on January 28, 2009 at 8:47 pm epiclolz

    “All women (and men)get old sooner or later, if they are lucky. So marrying at 22 is no shield against someone dumping you for the newer model when you are 30.”

    As Eddie Murphy might say, at least if they get married at 22, they still have the option of HALF!!!!!!!!!! =)

    Getting married early seems like a good strategy for a young lady, but a very bad thing for a man. For instance the guy you can rack up quite a few HALFs over a few years… if he’s crazy enough to get married more than once.

    Tight post Roissy.

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  59. on January 28, 2009 at 9:00 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Why is Roissy not drawing a superb pair of tits on his stick figure female?

    Why is that conspicuously absent?

    LikeLike


  60. on January 28, 2009 at 9:02 pm kthulah

    Roissy, they’re merely following your lead.

    You should be proud.

    It’s like a game of Simon says.

    LikeLike


  61. on January 28, 2009 at 9:09 pm sara I

    Newly graduated players often nurse an incoherent fear of seeming too beta, so they compensate too far in the other direction.

    So they become too phony in the other direction? That sucks.

    LikeLike


  62. on January 28, 2009 at 9:09 pm PA

    < Why is Roissy not drawing a superb pair of tits on his stick figure female?

    Because he knows that Flat thru B-Cup is where it’s at. Erotic and lovely all in one.

    C-cup is OK, but beyond that, it all starts sagging.

    LikeLike


  63. on January 28, 2009 at 9:19 pm shark

    the banker girlfriends = greedy Jewish whores

    They’ve infected urban America with hypermaterialism and as such need to be exiled to Tel Aviv

    LikeLike


  64. on January 28, 2009 at 9:22 pm GNPs are for Apes

    A woman’s market value is at a peak from 22 to 27. It gently declines after that, until 33, from which point it declines much faster.

    So market value really does match fertility, even when conceiving a child is not the goal.

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  65. on January 28, 2009 at 9:23 pm Tood

    “….and as such need to be exiled to Tel Aviv”

    I would have picked Gaza, actually. Let them get a taste of what Islam thinks of their place in society.

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  66. on January 28, 2009 at 9:27 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    bbass said: “There’s a real taste of misogyny and pure bile going on here.”

    From your blog, you seem like a thoughtful guy, so let me respond thoughtfully.

    Roissy and Lurker’s ideas are, in fact, somewhat sociopathic in and of themselves. BUT, they do not operate in a vacuum. They operate in a society in which men have largely been rendered redunant by feminism, by media and by government. Their responses are, in fact, responses to the kind of society we have.

    As I’ve said before, years ago, it worked to be respectable and responsible with a good job, etc. Now women have that themselves and are looking for “hyper’men” — thugs, players, the mega-rich, models. Most of us aren’t those guys. Yet, the feminine always seeks the more masculine. The “average guy” is now a below average guy, thanks to the woman who took his job, drives a better car and gets away with acting like she has a bigger dick in the office (because what men can say is now monitored closely).

    Roissy and Lurker are giving out responses that work in the context of the society we have. You seem to be somewhat conservative judging from your blog; I assume you’ve thought of at least some of this.

    In other words, Roissy is giving out sick advice for a sick society.

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  67. on January 28, 2009 at 9:27 pm Patrick Bateman

    What’s your opinion of a man who consistently allows himself to get used as a credit card or gopher for a hoe?

    I feel nothing but contempt for him. He deserves to be treated like shit. Guys like him allow real men to stand out in the game, but they also hinder our efforts by validating low quality girls.

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  68. on January 28, 2009 at 9:29 pm David Alexander

    Because he knows that Flat thru B-Cup is where it’s at. Erotic and lovely all in one.

    A cup = boy with vagina and long hair
    B cup = fat men have bigger tits
    C cup = better come with ass
    D cup = real woman

    They’ve infected urban America with hypermaterialism

    So, what’s wrong with hypermaterialism? It keeps people employed…

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  69. on January 28, 2009 at 9:32 pm Tood

    I vote for pert, shapely C-cup as the optimal size.

    D-Cup is fantastic under age 30. After 30, it becomes a liability.

    A-cup is just not acceptable. Even on an Asian woman.

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  70. on January 28, 2009 at 9:32 pm David Alexander

    but they also hinder our efforts by validating low quality girls

    Somewhere out there, there’s a beta male setting up traps by telling his average looking female friends that they’re hot…

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  71. on January 28, 2009 at 9:33 pm girl22

    I think this woman revealed herself when she made out with you within the first 20 minutes of ever meeting you. Then she told you she had a history from the first date?
    It doesn’t take much game after that point, you know what’s up.

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  72. on January 28, 2009 at 9:42 pm ironrailsironweights

    I vote for pert, shapely C-cup as the optimal size.
    D-Cup is fantastic under age 30. After 30, it becomes a liability.
    A-cup is just not acceptable. Even on an Asian woman.

    C’s okay, but I’ll give the edge to D. So long as it’s combined with a thick, rich, luxuriant GNP, of course.

    Peter

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  73. on January 28, 2009 at 9:42 pm PA

    Small boobies have cute nipples and have more erogeneous sensation per square inch than big boobs.

    Small titties are adornments, big tits are udders.

    Small tittles wink at you when you’re banging her, big boobs slosh down next to her armpits.

    Small titties will peekaboo atcha when she leans down with no bra under her sundress, big boobs hang down like leaden bells.

    LikeLike


  74. on January 28, 2009 at 9:48 pm PA

    When you’re with an adult woman with small titties, you feel like you are banging a teenager.

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  75. on January 28, 2009 at 9:55 pm David Alexander

    Correction: When you’re with an adult woman with small titties, you feel like you are banging a teenagerchild.

    Weirdo.

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  76. on January 28, 2009 at 10:01 pm David Alexander

    Small titties are adornments, big tits are udders.

    Big tits look feminine, IMHO. Small tits look awful.

    No nails, heels, makeup, slutty clothes and ass or willingness to fuck me will ever make touch a flat chested girl. I have and will continue to reject flat chested girls. Said girls belong in the platonic friends zone.

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  77. on January 28, 2009 at 10:17 pm Sparks123

    I can’t locate the article, but I remember Sailer recommending to women looking for a beta provider husband (he didn’t use that term, but it was largely to that effect) to take up golf and meet guys on the course or in the clubhouse. Golfers are men of gainful employment, have enough testosterone that they enjoy the outdoors and physical activity but not so testosterone-laden that they’ll be looking for a bunch of pump-and-dumps.

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  78. on January 28, 2009 at 10:35 pm ironrailsironweights

    Golfers are men of gainful employment, have enough testosterone that they enjoy the outdoors and physical activity but not so testosterone-laden that they’ll be looking for a bunch of pump-and-dumps.

    Physical activity? God-damned cartball has so little physical exertion it’s a joke.

    Peter

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  79. on January 28, 2009 at 11:24 pm whiskey

    bbass —

    REAL Misogyny is hanging 16 year old girls for having non-marital sex. Or female genital mutilation, or the burqua or forced/arranged marriages, or beheading or stoning to death women who are “adulteresses.” I’ll note ZERO protest of that real misogyny by Western women. Instead you hate the bitter beta guys who have figured out that your threats of continued not sleeping with them is an empty one. Welcome to the harvest of what women in the West have sown. If you don’t like the attitudes expressed here, guess what? It’s only getting worse as more men are bitter beta guys at home alone while women sleep with players. [Proof positive that women HATE beta guys for existing. Bitter Beta = “misognyn” while Arabian head-choppers = “we must understand their culture.”]

    Let me explain it to you. Men do NOT like to share women. In fact, throughout history, particularly Western history, men have killed to avoid sharing women. I mean, it’s not as if the founding piece of literature was about a war over a woman.

    I don’t have any “bile” but I do have huge social concerns. A woman with a lot of sex partners is not going to be able to bond with her eventual mate. This is well documented and explains men’s aversion to a lot of partners in women who would be potential mates. Bonding with a mate requires the effect of hormones released during sex to be powerful, not degraded. There is indeed several studies showing that “first love” is the most powerful due to the effect of hormones being not degraded by frequent partner hopping.

    Indeed, in cultures where female sex partners is high, men invest almost nothing in women and children. The record of these places is not a happy one.

    Can a woman move away from a history of bad boys and towards beta characteristics? It’s possible one can win the lottery, it’s not a wise retirement policy. The likelihood is quick disenchantment of the “beta” guy who will not compare to the excitement of the bad boys, divorce, and various men in and out of her life to the detriment of the children. An example would be Erin Brockovich herself. She has three kids, all drug and alcohol addicts, and big surprise men who fit the bad-boy mode constantly parading through her life, one after another. One might even think the two things (lots of bad-boy men in her life, drug addict kids) are related!

    A smart, savvy, “beta” guy would rather remain single than being merely the latest parade of guys with a “reformed” woman with all those bad boys. Here is the ugly reality:

    Men and women’s sexual desireability both fade with age, but women’s fades quicker, and fades with the more partners they have.

    Anon — Choosing a man wisely is hard. Austen wrote most of her novels on this difficulty. Character counts more than anything. Reality is that two incomes are required to raise a family with proper resources. This also hedges against sudden death of a spouse. However, delaying marriage until a woman is in her thirties is playing the odds towards failure — too many partners for the woman, too little time bonding to her spouse before children, likely driving sky-high divorce rates.

    Ideally a woman would choose a husband at age 23-26, bond with him intensely, have kids in the late twenties or so, back to school for any further education as a married mother. Having chosen wisely of course. After all, in Austen’s day women chose much earlier, and had a one-time-only choice too.

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  80. on January 28, 2009 at 11:35 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    whiskey: [Proof positive that women HATE beta guys for existing. Bitter Beta = “misognyn” while Arabian head-choppers = “we must understand their culture.”]

    I agree, but don’t you think American women complain more about local beta guys instead of the head choppers simply because the local guys are local? I mean ,if we had genital mutilation, etc. on US soil, I’d assume there would be protests, right?

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  81. on January 28, 2009 at 11:37 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Additonal comment, Whiskey:

    “An example would be Erin Brockovich herself. She has three kids, all drug and alcohol addicts, and big surprise men who fit the bad-boy mode constantly parading through her life, one after another. One might even think the two things (lots of bad-boy men in her life, drug addict kids) are related!”

    Addiction has proven to be largely genetic, so here an American feminist has chosen to pass on the genetics of addicts rather than geniuses. Having men in and out of the house doesn’t help, but bad genetics from these men definitely play into it.

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  82. on January 28, 2009 at 11:47 pm David Alexander

    A smart, savvy, “beta” guy would rather remain single than being merely the latest parade of guys with a “reformed” woman with all those bad boys.

    Well, if women are only attracted to alphas, why should a beta male invest his resources into somebody who isn’t attracted to him and doesn’t love him? I’d rather hand over checks to help a single mom in a platonic relationship than deal with a fake romance with a woman.

    a woman would choose a husband at age 23-26, bond with him intensely, have kids in the late twenties or so

    How are they going to afford said children if their earnings are both crap? Hell, even if you marry an older guy, his older male earnings don’t really compensate for her crippled earnings.

    back to school for any further education as a married mother

    If you don’t fuck up, you can complete grad school at 23-24, but the student loans are crippling, and I’d like to see somebody go to grad school with two kids and a mortgage, and then find an employer who won’t give a demeaning job when they can pay a single woman who has no encumbrances.

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  83. on January 28, 2009 at 11:51 pm Potentate

    whiskey, every one of your long-winded, repetitive posts is a clear signal of a lifetime of failure with the opposite sex. Where “Roissy”‘s bitterness emanates from being a former failure turned success still pissed off at the amorality of the world.

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  84. on January 29, 2009 at 1:35 am whiskey

    Days —

    Oh, but we DO have: forced/arranged marriages, female genital mutilation, polygamy (NYC even has it’s own special office in the Welfare system to deal with it), killing of “unchaste” girls (the Texas case comes to mind) by fathers and brothers, and the whole lot. I NEVER hear/read/see women protesting THAT. There are plenty of Muslims in the West, and believe me they act just like they do in Arabia and elsewhere. Women NEVER complain about it, in fact they will DEFEND it. What they do hate, passionately is Beta.

    Good point about Brockovich and inherited bad genes. She blames their addiction on … well everything but her bad choices.

    Potentate — Spoken like a typical feminist. Note btw the “Beta Hate” typical for feminists. No actual rebuttal of the arguments, just typical female appeals to status. Not a “Big Man?” Women don’t listen. [For women, status is EVERYTHING. See: Bill Clinton, John Edwards, David Paterson, Tony Villaraigosa, Gavin Newsome.]

    If anything, you make my point. Women will forgive ANYTHING but Beta. And the habits of a lifetime are hard to break. [For the record, I probably have the same success with women as any random guy. That is to say, utterly average.]

    David Alexander — Eternal happiness and self-fulfillment are over-rated. Who cares? Perfect is the enemy of the good. Good enough to keep society running and functioning properly is my view. I’m advocating a deliberate trade-off of passion for companionship. Seeing as how passion doesn’t last and you don’t build marriage or society by whoever turns you on the most in a bar.

    Kids don’t get into the expensive range until you get to the Junior High level (music/sports lessons, after school studies, college prep, college etc.). Too much of higher ed including Grad School is an excuse to party more not gain professional skills. Big companies (at least until this crisis) assisted employees with things like “Executive” MBAs and the like. That’s not going to cut it for Med School, or Law School, but will for say, a Masters in Finance or Electrical Engineering.

    Ann Coulter is right about one thing: single mothers are a social disaster. Our current system of marriage seems primed to create them due to late marriage ages.

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  85. on January 29, 2009 at 5:09 am kthulah

    GNP says, “So market value really does match fertility, even when conceiving a child is not the goal.”

    This may be true but it’s still not the be all and end all of attraction. Otherwise very few women would have sex over 35, or men over 45-50.

    Someone is screwing these people. It might not be you, but someone.

    Patrick says of volunteer hoe assistants, “I feel nothing but contempt for him. He deserves to be treated like shit. Guys like him allow real men to stand out in the game, but they also hinder our efforts by validating low quality girls.”

    That they do…and in my observation, men like this are hoes themselves. It’s just that the women they whore themselves to want resources and services, not sex. So I avoid men with that kind of history, probably with as much disgust as men would avoid a woman with too high of numbers.

    …only I don’t give any breaks for a guy being hot.

    I did try to date reformed gophers when I was younger, in some misguided attempt to deprogram myself from my upbringing. I felt I should give “nice guys” a chance, but I didn’t actually get much real dating/sexual experience before I was married. I was kinky, but not body fluid kinky…spank and tie up kinky, and that’s almost like cowboys and Indians for grownups.

    Now, I don’t like bad boys. That’s a person who makes bad decisions, and can’t lead himself, much less a family. However, after three times of dating guys who were credit cards for whores, that was enough to instill in me a dark revulsion for that type of guy. He feeds monsters, and is a kind of monster himself. He gets to use her to justify his own weakness.

    A man should not take crap from women. Actually nobody should be taking crap from anybody, but in my opinion and observation, it’s less damaging for a woman to make some “testosterone allowance” before deciding what to say back to a guy she’s seeing, than for a man to put up with any lashing out from her. Men and women don’t think the same, and a guy can have a boom and then it’s over in 10 minutes. A woman files these incidents in her head and assigns meaning to them.

    Whiskey says, “REAL Misogyny is hanging 16 year old girls for having non-marital sex. Or female genital mutilation, or the burqua or forced/arranged marriages, or beheading or stoning to death women who are “adulteresses.” I’ll note ZERO protest of that real misogyny by Western women.”

    If you missed it, it’s because you don’t know any western women. Or maybe when you say women, you mean the ewes Days referred to awhile back. They only watch MTV and SITC or something. (I have heard about, but never seen that show.)

    Dude, FGM was all over Oprah for some years, and is still a running issue on her website. So were honor killings and such.

    Then there was that Lebanese woman going around American churches, who did a press conference about the oppressive Islamic invaders, and how the west needs to wipe them out.

    Maybe it’s just you who aren’t paying much attention to these things. Don’t put that on women.

    By the way, I’ll admit to watching Oprah for some time when I let some people convince me that I should be nicer.

    Heh.

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  86. on January 29, 2009 at 6:27 am RF Interference

    “A cup = boy with vagina and long hair
    B cup = fat men have bigger tits
    C cup = better come with ass
    D cup = real woman
    ”

    Dave, I know you’ve pledged eternal bachelorhood, but if you’re looking for LTR material, I say b-cup is where it is at. Going to age much better than c-cups (and especially d-cups, those are going to be around her knees eventually).

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  87. on January 29, 2009 at 6:39 am gig

    Z , Bbas and Ktullah
    Men age also. But they age better then women. And since men’s value in the sexual market depends on many factors, they can adjust something to compensate for the age factor.

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  88. on January 29, 2009 at 6:46 am Kurie Plot

    If I have the chronology right, she made her revealing statements on your first real date. You then made the appropriate beta adjustments to your game on this same date–in which case the “business suit (minus tie)” is a hell of an improvisation.

    Imagine Superman saying, “This looks like a job for Clark Kent!” and charging into the bathroom…

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  89. on January 29, 2009 at 6:50 am Obsidian

    Let me see if I can inject something meaningful into the debate here.

    Mystery, in his book, basically makes the case that, as a result of thousands of years of conditioning, environment and so on, that Women simply will NOT assume or accept, ANY responsibility for what happens in a marriage, relationship, etc. He therefore states, that any and everything that happens, will happen because the Man took the lead.

    Now, if one accepts this premise, and considers Whiskey’s arguments, the only conclusion *I* can see in all this, is not only to place strictures on who Women can and cannot have as mates, but to also put into place a pretty big stick-serious punitive measures for any Woman who deviates from the program.

    So, let’s take Erin Brokovich, for example-havinmg had three kids by as many Baby Daddies, drugs involved, etc, would, under the Big Stick System I’m proposing, have some major punitive measure brought on her-perhaps her kids being stripped from her and placed into foster care, etc.

    My point being, that until or unless there is the force of the State to *make* Women conform in the ways Whiskey’s saying, I simply do not see any major seachanges occuring on the horizon anytime soon. It occurs to me that it will take more than merely ignoring someone; Men today are extremely wary of Marriage not because of being chided for being Tools, but because of the very real Power of the State to make their lives very difficult should things go South.

    I hope what I’m saying here is clear.

    The question then becomes, how do we make that happen?

    Comments?

    O

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  90. on January 29, 2009 at 6:59 am gig

    “The question then becomes, how do we make that happen? ”

    A couple generations with european fertility rates among the tax-paying classes plus a state that will try to keep its cash flow by taxing this diminishing pool more and more while the tax-receiving classes grow more and more and vote for more redistributive taxation as they receive a diminishing share of welfare will cause the collpase of the welfare state.

    Want to see a vision of the future? Google “hooligans” and see the white under class without any perspective of marriage/owning a home but asked for more and more taxes for NAM’s and useless SWPL (arts, museums, women studies). The same thing is happening i Italy. Google greek riots to see it hppening in Greece. Google french riots (or emeutes) to see what is happening in France. It will get really ugly before it gets better.

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  91. on January 29, 2009 at 7:07 am z.g.

    lurker

    You know what? At first I was feeling bad for a girl in this position. She didn’t seem like the kind of slut who deserved to have roissy break her in half.

    But then I realized she was just the attempted reformed slut type–the one who used to have 3somes with one night stands, and now thinks she can “put her past behind her” and give you blue balls and follow the rules.

    Fuck that slut.

    If you’re going to be a good girl, be a good girl. You do it from the start.

    But once you’ve become a whore, trying to blue ball anyone in the future is worse than being a ball-busting harpy from the start.

    Amen bro.

    I had more respect for the virgin who got me into a relationship for two years without sex, than the previously promiscuous ex who tried to restrict sex.

    Like I always say,

    “The past usage of a vagina determines the present and future value of the said vagina”

    Jane

    You’re good. Really good.

    But all this scheming and manipulating just to get a girl in bed? Not as impressive.

    Why not just go for the promiscuous ones so at least you’re on the same page?

    No one likes being played.

    I hope everyone uses their knowledge wisely.

    “With great powers comes great responsibility.”
    ~Spiderman!!!!

    It is more fun to make a non-slutty woman cherish you with her sexuality than the village bicycle.

    Promiscuous woman’s sexuality has no value, and this way or the other, we want value.

    “With choices, come prices”
    Z.g.man

    Anonymous

    Stupid comment lurker. Under that theory, betas who want to reform and gain some balls should instead just give it up, and try to beta and friend their way into women’s pants, only even more so.

    You speak from the point of view that women respect men who try to gain some game.

    I have game. I have looks and status.

    I do not want to imagine the scandal I would have to go through if I were to be found with a PUA book in my hand in a coffee house.

    There is nothing more disturbing to women about PUA stuff than the possibility of a Beta entering Alphahood without the money etc to back it up.

    For women you either are born alpha or beta. you cannot move up between the groups. (say you got famous and suddenly run around like an alpha, women will assume you were always alpha… )

    So men are not the ones shaming the aspiring PUAs, it is women. Meaning when you say “under that theory”, you are forgetting the result you hypothetically assume is already a reality.

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  92. on January 29, 2009 at 7:15 am z

    Whiskey wrote:

    “A woman with a lot of sex partners is not going to be able to bond with her eventual mate. This is well documented and explains men’s aversion to a lot of partners in women who would be potential mates. Bonding with a mate requires the effect of hormones released during sex to be powerful, not degraded. There is indeed several studies showing that “first love” is the most powerful due to the effect of hormones being not degraded by frequent partner hopping.”

    The first love is certainly the powerful one. Mine was at 17, and although I was with several other women back in my twenties I’d have dropped them all to get back with “her”.

    Ive been shown a picture of her by a friend a couple of years ago. God its hard to believe that she looks like —-THAT—now. Not the 10 I remember at all. Yikes! You really are in a trance at 17 though, and women are never so intoxicating to you again. She’s had several kids, but her beauty is pretty much gone. She’s merely an average-looking woman now. The lesson women should learn from this is that you ladies will not inspire nearly as much romance from a man at 35 as you could have at 20. He’s different yes, but YOU are much different by that time. Bloom is off the rose hard by then for a female, outliers like movie stars aside.

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  93. on January 29, 2009 at 7:20 am kthulah

    Obsidian, the people who can breed within a reasonable time frame, do. As much as it pains me to watch it happening, it seems the people who are doing it in enough numbers are the religious. Secular people are the ones suffering from more of a lack of realism now, and trying to live like teenagers until their thirties and forties.

    So even if someone doesn’t necessarily adhere to each and every word of whatever scriptures their culture traditionally leans on, it’s probably a good idea to have defined, explicit, and realistic standards, live by them, and raise one’s children to live by them. I’m more afraid of my father than I am of remote social consequences.

    As my second husband put it: sometimes you have to just enforce the rules, even though the (insert subordinate) doesn’t like them, and doesn’t understand. They just have to be protected through enforcement until they reach a point of maturity where they do understand.

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  94. on January 29, 2009 at 8:03 am z

    Whiskey,

    I dont think women “hate” betas. They just dont want them around because they think being seen interacting with them lowers their own status in the eyes of desirable males. They cannot fathom that “alpha” males dont think this way, and unless she is in a relationship the alphas see her as open game.

    I DO think that women resent betas getting Asian, Hispanic, and “other” women. Betas are women’s default insurance plan. They think they will always be around for them if they dont land an alpha before they are too old. When they are not (and they wont be, they settle for fat girls usually), women resent them then for……………..get this……………….settling. A blogger who is retired called “Black Misogynist” had a post about this phemomena amongst white women a few years ago. It was based on some conversations he’d overheard at his job. White gals really pissed off that some dorky guy that none of the girls in the group wouldn’t date, actually married a Asian girl. He (the blogger) asked them outright should he have waited until one of you or your friends were available (read: desperate and old enough) to accept him. Their response was: yes, he should have “waited” for one of us.

    They dont hate “betas”, they need them as financial and procreative insurance. They hope to be able to eschew them permanently but know they need them “around”. Somebody has to get things –done– at the office after all. Its kind of like the relationship a Kennedy probably has with their maids. Disdainful, but woe unto them when she calls in sick.

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  95. on January 29, 2009 at 8:23 am Obsidian

    Chuck, BDS,
    Actually, me and Lurker were having a disagreement on Tats and Black folk, and he mentioned AI and others. So that’s how the whole thing got started.

    Again, this aint a Sports blog, and im content to simply agree to disagree. No harm, no foul.

    But I do have to say though, that the near constant dogging out of Nicole does bother me a bit. I just don’t see why all the vitriol is necessary; if you don’t agree with what she says, simply ignore her and present your views on something else.

    The overall straightup hateful tone toward Women from some of the fellas in here is hard to deny, even for me. And for what? Ain’t this supposed to be about having a good time? It is for me. Life’s too short to walk around hatin’ on half the world’s populus.

    O

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  96. on January 29, 2009 at 9:15 am Rain And

    “Basically he is 31, hasn’t saved a dime for retirement…I really doubt he has even got 10 thousand in the bank and no wealth”

    Your cousin is Roosh??

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  97. on January 29, 2009 at 9:18 am Gordan

    Mu, you put up quite a fight denying it. There’s a difference between being a charming, seductive man, and being a jilted man-child who retaliates for perceived past slights by “getting one over” on womankind. You know the difference.

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  98. on January 29, 2009 at 10:07 am Smiler

    I dont think women “hate” betas.

    Yeah. They normally reserve the hate and resentment for betas who used to turn them on (but don’t, anymore, for whichever reasons). Roissy has more or less mentioned this point before.

    Other than that quibble, Whiskey is more or less spot on.

    White gals really pissed off that some dorky guy that none of the girls in the group wouldn’t date, actually married a Asian girl. He (the blogger) asked them outright should he have waited until one of you or your friends were available (read: desperate and old enough) to accept him. Their response was: yes, he should have “waited” for one of us.

    This has been discussed before, both here and elsewhere.

    What’s happening is that women know that their preferences are an all-or-nothing bet: either they land their dream alpha, or they get nothing (as they age out of even beta desirability).

    The “beta backup plan” where they collar a resentful beta loser (and then divorce him later, taking the house, kids, and everything) is, in short, their way of converting the “all or nothing” bet into an “all or something” bet, where the backup betas are the “something”.

    And, as much as I hate to say it, it seems to work. The all-or-nothing bet really has been successfully converted to all-or-something, courtesy of desperate beta manginas.

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  99. on January 29, 2009 at 11:43 am whiskey

    Obsidian — yes of course the resentment of women concerns me. It is indeed my central, repetitive point: Misogyny is the predictable and certain result when large groups of men are unattached to women, particularly for long periods of time.

    As for Beta hate, well women DO hate Betas. Roissy’s comments and others on that subject, the casual way women discuss their hate for the Mo Rocca types is striking. Since I am inoffensive and utterly average in person, I eavesdrop/overhear a lot of women talking about their hatred for Beta guys, ESPECIALLY their interest in them, as opposed to Alpha guys.

    This of course enrages Beta types in turn, because of the dual standard: Alphas can do anything, simply being Alpha turns women on, while pretty much everything Betas do is wrong.

    As for Beta marriage when she ages out of Alphas, of course women resent having to settle for these guys.

    Which is why I advocate social pressures (not laws) to make women AND men conform to choosing the best partner they can early, sticking with them, and putting kids first. Simple stuff really, but it works like most simple but difficult things.

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  100. on January 29, 2009 at 12:19 pm Obsidian

    Whiskey,
    Interesting. The other day me and a ladyfriend of mine were talking about one of her coworkers, who, while hanging at a strip club (that’s another story), was able to collect upwards of $100 from the fellas in attendence. She wasn’t a stripper herself, just dressed in tight stuff and heels (Dave Alex?). When I heard about it, I asked my friend how her friend felt.

    She said that her friend despised those Tools.

    I simply shook my head.

    Hmm.

    O

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  101. on January 29, 2009 at 12:25 pm Smiler

    Misogyny is the predictable and certain result when large groups of men are unattached to women, particularly for long periods of time.

    This definitely strikes a chord.

    I eavesdrop/overhear a lot of women talking about their hatred for Beta guys, ESPECIALLY their interest in them, as opposed to Alpha guys.

    What sort of things do you hear? Given the sort of stuff that was raised in the “Marry, shag, kill” topic a few months ago, maybe I shouldn’t be surprised, hmm.

    As for Beta marriage when she ages out of Alphas, of course women resent having to settle for these guys.

    Definitely. They clean the guys out in the divorce too, which I suppose could be interpreted as a way of punishing the beta for being beta.

    But, any guy who settles for cast-offs can’t say that he wasn’t asking for it.

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  102. on January 29, 2009 at 12:38 pm z

    Whiskey,

    You actually made my point:

    ” I eavesdrop/overhear a lot of women talking about their hatred for Beta guys, ESPECIALLY their interest in them, as opposed to Alpha guys.”

    Women dont “see” betas unless the betas hit on the women. Then they resent them for lowering their status. (“How dare he think HE is attractive enough for ME”). Women resent the beta for approaching because she is afraid that an alpha will see, and also are horrified that they might be “losing it” enough for the beta to think he has a chance.

    Women see Betas like men see fat chicks. If the fat chick at your office does a good job and keeps her mouth shut and is pleasant, you are glad she is there in competence. If she gripes and has a bad attitude and is a lousy co-worker, you resent her even more than you would because she is ugly to look at.

    Weight has so much more an issue in the interplay between formerly alpha women and beta men than has ever been addressed in my estimation. So many beta guys are “thin” and stay that way, while so many formerly alpha girls with curves get fat and unnatractive that their attractiveness intersects in their thirties, with hers falling off a cliff, just as he is pulling a Anthony Michael Hall (your example) and becoming “mature”-looking. Many many many MANY club-queen, especially the “baby-got-back” models, wind up in serious porker-hood a decade down the line.

    One of the big suprises in my life occured when our company put up a bunch of photos of employees from 25-30 years ago. A handful of war-pigs I have to endure, were actually shockingly attractive back in the day. It upset me so much, I needed a drink. I wanted to think of two in particular as ugly-from-the-cradles. They weren’t to my amazement. Those pics, some of which have some of my friends in it, instilled something in me that I already knew: time sure is cruel.

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  103. on January 29, 2009 at 1:10 pm Lance

    Bonding with a mate requires the effect of hormones released during sex to be powerful, not degraded. There is indeed several studies showing that “first love” is the most powerful due to the effect of hormones being not degraded by frequent partner hopping.

    this may be true, but so what. what every person needs to ask himself is whether he wants a relationship based on the number of hormones firing or one based on a reasonable convergence of wants. personally, i prefer the latter. this is why i don’t usually ‘date’ women in their early twenties. friends.. yes. friends with benefits… of course. i’ll quote KRS-ONE here:

    the girlies look so good, but their brains are not ready
    i’d rather talk to a woman, cause her mind is more steady

    now here is where the chorus chimes in with but women don’t make rational decisions; they only act on their unconscious desires. good luck with that thinking. it’s useful as a rule of thumb, but try living your life by it, with no exceptions, and you’re basically limiting yourself as you would by accepting any other rigid dogmatic system.

    remember, simply stating that something is is not the same as stating that it ought to be.

    bottom line: a guy who goes through life thinking that any woman who has slept with more than three guys is permanently damaged is as likely to be unhappy in life as the guy who thinks that a woman’s sexual past has no meaning at all. unless of course you take the roissy rout and decide that marriage and a family is not something you want.

    the one area where i do agree with most posters is that if a woman tries to pull the ‘reformed’ slut card on you, don’t accept it. there’s no point in ever trying to be capt. sav-a-ho.

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  104. on January 29, 2009 at 2:07 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Obsidian:

    “…under the Big Stick System I’m proposing, have some major punitive measure brought on her-perhaps her kids being stripped from her and placed into foster care, etc…. The question then becomes, how do we make that happen? ”

    In a free country there is only so much you can do. But a half century ago, what kept women and men from being shameless was the concept of “shame,” which largely came from the influence of religion. The reason you didn’t have men impregnating multiple women and women having three kids by three different men is that there was a huge stigma associated with this.

    Liberal guilt and the influence of the media is what changed all this. I have no idea what can change it back. Not conservatives who are hypocritical and ineffective.

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  105. on January 29, 2009 at 4:46 pm kthulah

    Days, there is no turning back. The only way out is gradual through our kids, or an ugly shift towards even more mercenary women. Western men don’t want to give up premarital sex with non prostitutes. Western women understand that if they don’t have premarital sex with their partners, someone else will.

    In order for women to change it all by ourselves, then enough of us will have to decide that we will absolutely not have premarital sex. It’s starting to become that way in Israel, where young women basically hold out for the highest bidder, and guys without money have almost no chance of having sex with anyone who isn’t a “slut”.

    …and from the lack of appreciation she’ll get for being tolerant of someone’s lower income status, she soon learns that it’s not worth it to be nice. So she changes towns or social groups and becomes a born again virgin.

    So it can happen in a western country. Y’all just won’t like it if it does. It won’t matter how much game you have. Nobody will open their legs unless they want to get you with the preganancy trap.

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  106. on January 29, 2009 at 5:07 pm sestamibi

    Whiskey said:

    “Which is why I advocate social pressures (not laws) to make women AND men conform to choosing the best partner they can early, sticking with them, and putting kids first. Simple stuff really, but it works like most simple but difficult things.”

    OK, fair enough. But aren’t our laws and public policy designed to do the exact opposite right now (including the fresh off the press Lilly Ledbetter Act)?

    We need to get rid of the institutions that castrate men so that those social pressures can work. If we don’t we will have social pressures (read “jihad” and “sharia”) a lot more unpleasant than those that used to prevail in the West before we all became so “enlightened”.

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  107. on January 29, 2009 at 7:06 pm Anon2

    “It’s only getting worse as more men are bitter beta guys at home alone while women sleep with players. [Proof positive that women HATE beta guys for existing…”

    You guys stop hating older women and women might consider betas.

    Yeah, not gonna happen…

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  108. on January 30, 2009 at 12:16 am alphadominance

    Adaptability is the hallmark of the adept student of human nature. The ability to be a chameleon is very useful in social situations of all kinds. You read your target and used rapport to connect with her. It is counterproductive to be overly rigid and presenting the aspect that appeals to your date makes good sense. I agree that age/stage in life is a crucial consideration in formulating your presentation.

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  109. on January 30, 2009 at 3:18 am David Alexander

    Good enough to keep society running and functioning properly is my view.

    Once you learn that women cannot love or be attracted to beta males, eventually you begin to accept the fate of the universe and realize that it’s better off in the long-term to be single than to be married and emotionally and physically abused. People like you are a traitor to the happiness of general male population, and I refuse to sacrifice my mental health to promote your little loser beta utopia that’s no longer sustainable.

    putting kids first

    I live in a white country for a reason because I can do things other than breed more loser third rate children into the world.

    She wasn’t a stripper herself, just dressed in tight stuff and heels (Dave Alex?)

    Excellent. 🙂

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  110. on January 30, 2009 at 4:23 am Anonymous

    I DO think that women resent betas getting Asian, Hispanic, and “other” women.

    do betas really get hispanic and “other” women more than they get white ones? from my experience hispanic and black women are more alpha-hungry than even white chicks. when you’re too beta for a black or hispanic chick, you go for white. when you’re even too beta for white, you go for asians next.

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  111. on January 30, 2009 at 11:16 am alphadominance

    Kthulah,

    “So it can happen in a western country. Y’all just won’t like it if it does. It won’t matter how much game you have. Nobody will open their legs unless they want to get you with the preganancy trap.”

    Anything that requires collective action suffers from the “prisoner’s dilemma.” The more women get on board, the greater the incentive to transgress for any given woman. You will never get a wide majority to follow such a path without major punitive deterrents. Religion used to serve such a function but we’ve wised up in the developed world. Hell doesn’t scare us anymore obviously. Education is the foe of religious fundamentalism. Israel is a largely homogeneous as far as religion. I suspect without that you wouldn’t see the effect you proclaim if it in fact is so.

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  112. on January 30, 2009 at 4:39 pm kthulah

    Alphadominance, the incentive to transgress in this situation is tempered by the consequences of doing so. Because the vast majority will follow the herd regardless of what they say at the moment, both momentary rebels and legitimate outliers/protesters will pay the same price because nobody cares if you step out of line for profit or principles. You’ll be treated the same.

    I wondered about this after the second surprise-racist. The answer hit me square upside the frontal lobe when I found out my street value from a nice old man.

    I done seen de light!

    Sex and reproduction can’t be analyzed in the same terms as say, common criminal activity. All people don’t need to cheat at billiards or cheat on their taxes to pass their genes to the next generation. It’s one of those things like birth and death that needs to happen in order for the species to continue. So a trend that is beneficial will result in sustaining the population, and one that is destructive can destroy a population within a few generations.

    Cultures have been destroyed from things like overly oppressive dating/marriage rules. Sometimes they’ve been purposefully destroyed by wealthier tribes monopolizing the breeding aged women of poorer tribes, or creating situations where all the breeding age men have to go far away to work.

    So if a set of rules and means to enforce them, were devised and implemented, that were actually beneficial, and cover the bases that religion didn’t, I think people would readily adopt it. My life would be drastically different right now if my first husband was simply more aware that a wife who’s willing to do a 2 female 3-way is a better deal than a hotter hoe who doesn’t like sex.

    Instead, it took a chain of heartbreak from mercenaries to wake him up.

    So I don’t know…maybe a good thing to set it off would be for the guys with teenage sons to have game discussion groups or something. PUA book clubs maybe?

    If you get them at that age, when kids are still young and thinking in terms of romance and commitment and such, you kill two birds with one stone…get them thinking about wise selection on time, which will get them married at a reasonable age.

    I have a Polish friend who says that in Poland, it’s normal to see people married by 18-20 or so, and raising kids while in university. It’s so normal there it’s rare to see people having “wild college years”. Wild is for high school age, if at all.

    If it can be done in a balanced way there, maybe it can be done in the U.S. too. The system would have to be changed in order to facilitate that though. I think Eastern New Mexico University does a good job with that, but part of the reason is they have a huge and intense child development department.

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  113. on January 30, 2009 at 5:51 pm alphadominance

    I definitely think the young men need realistic schooling in how to deal with women. They need men to show them the way. Stats show that marriages in the age range you mentioned for Poland have an abysmal success rate though. How do you account for that? If you encourage youth to bear young while they themselves are not fully matured, you run the risk of perpetuating cycles of broken families. Furthermore I don’t know about a lot of majors but the competitive ones simply require too much time to work and be a parent simultaneously. If you are pre-med you don’t have time to sleep let alone parent.

    I’m not sure if I got my point across on the prisoner’s dilemma though. It doesn’t mean criminals per-se, it is a term from game theory that shows that a majority of individuals will defect from the group. This is the principal flaw in cartels and other voluntary cooperative organizations.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

    The same can be applied to the decreased likelihood of female infidelity as the status of her husband increases. It’s a cost/benefit decision. We didn’t evolve to make lifelong commitments, this is a product of culture. If it were innate we wouldn’t see the decline of marriage in liberal societies that we do today. Whether married or not people are unlikely as a majority to be faithful. They will always evaluate things in a cost/benefit framework though this is often subconscious. So long as people continue to procreate, our society isn’t going away, whether they do at twenty or thirty. As for competing with other countries that reproduce rapidly, wealth is power today, not sheer numbers of inhabitants. India outnumbers us 5:1 but their population is a liability, not an asset. That aside though, the US is the third most populace nation on the planet so we are far from fading into a shadow.

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  114. on January 31, 2009 at 1:29 am expats get the hotties

    Ambiance said: “I’d love to know more about your “virtually foolproof text”, always working on new techniques and routines to improve my phone/text game.”

    I’ll bet it has something to do with “leave them wanting more”.

    LikeLike


  115. on January 31, 2009 at 1:34 am expats get the hotties

    Royal said: “Of course… most men go straight into beta provider mode without laying the groundwork first…Sending a woman flowers…”

    Beta provider does not equal alpha provider. Playing the provider game does not mean you are playing beta.

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  116. on January 31, 2009 at 1:40 am expats get the hotties

    3point5 said: “Love the sketch – So what you’re saying is act the beta to hide the alpha…keen…”

    It’s the same alpha game. The same war of the sexes. Have many tools in your toolbox, and use whatever fits the appliance at hand. It’s not being beta to act the provider. It’s being beta if that’s the only tool you know of or can use.

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  117. on January 31, 2009 at 1:47 am expats get the hotties

    PA said: “The T-shirt caption shoudl be exactly what you wrote: “don’t go thinking you can put on the halo before the horns have lured her in.””

    Wrong. A clever spider makes his web look innocuous. A clever spider can open with beta, to attract a gold digger, and ensnare her with even better game.

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  118. on January 31, 2009 at 1:57 am expats get the hotties

    Thursday said: “With girls in social circles that disapprove of non-marital sex…”

    The hard core Cinderella-Marriage-to-my-Prince-Jeesus-Freaks are both tough and worthless to bed. What’s the point? I pity the fool who gets what he “wants” from one of those.

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  119. on January 31, 2009 at 1:58 am expats get the hotties

    GNPs are for Apes said: “A woman’s market value is at a peak from 22 to 27.”

    12 to 25.

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  120. on January 31, 2009 at 3:45 am expats get the hotties

    not a lurker blurted as if thoughtful words: “That’s not to insult the alphas here (esp. roissy) who are working it. I did once, now I’m pretty lazy. ”

    You meant to say that you aren’t horny enough to be compelled. There are cures to raise low testosterone levels. Go to the gym, act alpha, hang around people who look up to you, be social, etc. Low testosterone is not an excuse, it is a cause.

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  121. on January 31, 2009 at 3:55 am expats get the hotties

    Whose fault is it what sex is the zebrafish? The male, for becoming female because the females don’t give him attention and his hormone levels react to that, or his, for not maintaining enough territory to involve females into his lair?

    If you are not horny, you are a zebrafish.

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  122. on January 31, 2009 at 4:03 am Eman

    whiskey: “REAL Misogyny is hanging 16 year old girls for having non-marital sex. Or female genital mutilation…”

    So that means that we can classify male genital mutilation (circumcision) as a form of misandry?

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  123. on January 31, 2009 at 4:03 am Chuck

    Obsidian:

    “The overall straightup hateful tone toward Women from some of the fellas in here is hard to deny, even for me. And for what?”

    I can’t agree more. While I do see the benefits of Game; those who view it as an us-against-them zero-sum endeavor lose out in the long-run. Good Game is like a bullfight. The matador respects the bull and the bull respects the matador. It’s a dance of seduction. A dance of two equals. There is no animosity b/w the parties involved.

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  124. on January 31, 2009 at 4:04 am Chuck

    Kthluah:

    Nice to see you came out from under the troll bridge………Now go back.

    LikeLike


  125. on January 31, 2009 at 5:34 am kthulah

    Chuck, I wasn’t trolling. I really don’t need your permission to breathe.

    If this bothers you, then you’ve got problems that game won’t solve.

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  126. on January 31, 2009 at 6:19 am kthulah

    Alphadominance, the friend who told me about divorce in Poland is a natural ginger blonde bombshell (31 years old, but takes good care of herself) who pays child support to her ex husband. I’m told that unless there’s some major problem with the father, it’s not uncommon at all for the father to get the kids. This site about divorce in Poland backs up much of what she said. Poland has the second lowest divorce rates in the EU.

    Religion seems to be the main reason for this, but Poles, at least younger ones, don’t come off as particularly religious in other ways. I believe that the religion is just kind of back-up for a cultural belief in romance and the sanctity of marriage and informal pair bonds as well.

    I understood what you meant about the prisoner’s dilema in this, but anything having to do with human sexuality can’t be a zero sum game. There are going to be consequences for whichever decision a person makes. The consequences of betrayal or transgression are either all negative or extremely unlikely to be positive. Nobody will get off scott free from betraying the other in a romance because the other will know who is betraying them. People who do not tow the line and decide to keep what may be considered “theives’ honor” will find themselves outside the loop, as I said, whether they do this for profit or principle.

    As an outlier, someone who doesn’t believe it is beneficial to enforce monogamy in every case, I would personally not like to see laws enacted that would make it more difficult for me to find likeminded partners. However, my personal preferences were formed through the ability to think independently, which most people don’t have. Most people need laws enforcing monogamy, and cultures enforcing practical life scheduling, in order not to destroy themselves.

    Monogamy may not be natural or even remotely realistic or ideal, but it is a concept that levels the playing field to include guys who can be home-alphas whether or not they are wider scale alphas. It also allows women who are not hot to have a shot at having a long term mate as well.

    As things are now, we’re in a cultural situation where hot women and wider scale alpha males are the only ones considered worthy of love, and everybody else feels like they’re settling for what they can get. This is not good. Even if it is true that hot women and males in (legal or illegal) authority positions are the cream of the crop, everyone else shouldn’t feel like downer cattle.

    When people feel they have nothing to lose, and have no direction, they do stupid backwards things to get what they can.

    So…a person may not be fully developed between 18-25, but consider that a non independent thinker will *never* grow out of that. They have to get old and very experienced before they even start to think that maybe whatever was good for the herd wasn’t good for them. So one can’t really lead them with the naive notion that if they’re given more freedom, they’ll exercise it well.

    What I don’t know is how to put the screws in the herd without making life unbearably miserable for the few individualists. This is a dilema nobody has really solved yet. Heheheh…I think maybe Jesus tried, but look what they did with his philosophy.

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  127. on February 2, 2009 at 11:08 am Reversing A Flake « Roissy in DC

    […] 2, 2009 by roissy In my post on how to head fake girls with beta provider game, I left a teaser that I had stumbled upon a nearly foolproof text for reversing a “no response” flake. […]

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  128. on July 2, 2009 at 1:51 pm Reader Mailbag: Marriage Independence Day Edition « Roissy in DC

    […] possible, as you mentioned in your email, that your PUA is masterfully manipulating you with “beta provider game“, holding out the promise of a great future together. A classic ploy of a great seducer is […]

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  129. on February 27, 2011 at 5:01 pm Taylor Combs

    I was looking for information/reviews on Providers for Beta’s regarding CAPM estimation…. this did not help.

    Real men get laid without directions from nerds.

    -ITB

    [Editor: Real men marry porky beasts, too. Your point?]

    LikeLike



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