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Chateau Heartiste

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« Vulnerability Game
Reversing A Flake »

January 2009 Beta Of The Month

January 30, 2009 by CH

When I introduced the Beta Of The Year contest, readers were very enthusiastic. I got more submissions than I expected and sifting through them all to find the most nauseating betas to hold up for public ridicule turned out to be a bigger job than I anticipated. Trust me, this was not pleasant reading.

As you know, I select two BOTM candidates from among the submissions for an end of the month vote when the readers will determine the final BOTM winner. At the end of the year, there is a reader vote to select the Beta Of The Year from among the twelve finalist BOTMs.

There were so many great submissions for January that choosing two for a vote was difficult, so I’ve expanded the number of candidates to three for this month only. I feel like these three best represent what is worst about self-castrating beta behavior.

January 2009 BOTM Candidate #1 was submitted by Book of Dooderonomy. It’s a New York Beta Times article (remember I suggested the biggest betas would be found in the New York Times) about a guy who spends years chasing after a badboy-loving slut, letting her cry on his shoulder, and finally “winning” her over and lavishing her with an extravagant wedding.

Within minutes they were sharing a flirtatious conversation as they strolled across the campus. Then they went their separate ways, and he vowed to find her when school began later that month.

As it turned out, he didn’t have to search very hard. They were living on the same floor of the same dorm. It seemed like destiny. Except she had no memory of him.

“He would look at me in the hallway, and I didn’t know who he was,” recalled Ms. Lichtman, also 28 and now an account director in New York at an entertainment marketing subsidiary of Omnicom.

Classic beta scenario. Beta recalls every last detail of girl he flirted with for a few minutes, while she remembers nothing about him.

They quickly became inseparable. But only as friends.

When it came to dating, her taste ran more to bad boys with nice cars. Yet he was the one she turned to whenever she was upset. “He was always the person who calmed me,” she said. “He was there when other boys broke my heart.”

LJBF. Emotional tampon. Eunuch.

He was also there when she was hospitalized with Crohn’s disease their sophomore year and the medication she took made her overweight and depressed. He tried to convince her that they belonged together, but she resisted. “I didn’t want to give up my best friend,” she said. “I didn’t trust myself not to hurt him.”

I can feel the bile climbing up the back of my throat. So this beta extraordinaire GOES TO THE FUCKING HOSPITAL to comfort a FAT DEPRESSED BITCH who is banging badboys and TELLING HIM ABOUT IT. And then she has the gall (or the fearlessness) to toss out that trite “I can’t have sex with you because I don’t want to ruin our friendship” excuse. Does he find solace sticking his shriveled manhood in a hole through her photograph as tears stream down his face?

One night, while he was making his case for the umpteenth time,

Naturally. Persistence = beta game.

“I felt David was the right person for me, but I didn’t feel ready to be with him,” said Ms. Lichtman, who was not sure what she wanted. As the oldest of six children she was used to sacrificing what she wanted, and she was determined not to do that. Not even for someone she loved. “I wasn’t going to be with him just because I was scared of losing him.”

What a glimpse into the fetid, mucked up mind of a woman. She utterly disrespects this tool if she thinks he’s the sort of fool who would take her feeble rationalizations at face value.

He was devastated, but undeterred. “Though the situation was complicated, my feelings weren’t,” he said. “I knew how much I loved her. If we were just going to be friends, then I’m her friend.”

He’s a fool.
He eventually goes on to “break up” with her for a whole three weeks while he’s experiencing financial problems, but then quickly chastises himself for his rare display of testosterone:

Three weeks later, his panic was over, but so was their relationship. “What I did was the dumbest thing in the world,” he said, but she did not want to forgive.

Finally, he admits he can’t get anyone else:

Then in May 2007, after four years apart, he asked: “How much longer are you going to make me wait for you?”

She relents AKA settles:

Something inside her melted. “I spent all these years trying to figure out who I was and who I wanted to be with, and all of a sudden it was right there in front of me,” she said.

Translation: Something inside her gave up. “I spent all these years fucking guys with tattoos and DJs trying to get one of them to fall in love with me, and all of a sudden I looked in the mirror one day at my fading looks and found the nearest beta chump who would marry my ragged, torn up pussy and treat me like the ex-slut I am,” she said, sadly.

The most telling quote is at the end of the article:

“I had 500 reasons why I loved David, but I needed my heart to be in the same place that my head was,” she said. “For his wedding present there’s 500 Reasons I Said Yes.”

500 Rationalizations I Said “Ah, Fuck It”. I predict their marriage will last less than three years when she’s caught cheating and divorces him for the alimony which she will put toward her New Boyfriend Gifts fund. The courts will agree with this arrangement.

Check out the wedding picture:

whorewedding

***

January 2009 BOTM Candidate #2 was submitted by Henner. It’s a story about a doctor who donated his kidney to his whore wife to save her life and was repaid in kind when she spread her legs for her physical therapist and then slapped him with divorce papers while he was in the middle of performing surgery on a patient. She ran off with the kids whom he hasn’t seen in months.

What put this poor beta bastard over the top for consideration as BOTM was the fact that one of the reasons he gave for donating his kidney to his wife was to save their marriage.

Adding to his anguish, Batista insists his decision to donate his kidney in 2001 was in part a failed effort to rescue their troubled relationship.

“My first priority was to save her life,” the 49-year-old doctor said. “The second bonus was to turn our marriage around.” […]

Her husband – a surgeon at Nassau University Medical Center – injected her three times a week with medication as part of her health care regime.

Your marriage is failing. Deep in your heart you know she must be fucking around on you. She treats you like day-old shit. So what do you do? You give her your kidney in hopes it will make her love you again. If this isn’t the quivering, gnarled, spineless hunchbacked id of the UberBeta pinned to a vivisection tray for the whole world to gawk at, I don’t know what is.

But wait, he still harbors hope (betas cling to hope like barnacles to rotten piers):

Despite the animosity, Batista insisted he would donate the kidney all over again to his hopefully soon-to-be-ex. He fondly recalls a visit to her room on the day after surgery.

“There was no greater feeling on this planet,” he said. “As God is my witness, I felt as if I could put my arm around Jesus Christ. I was walking on a cloud.”

This guy is not living with the mentality of pussy abundance. His mentality is just the opposite — pussy scarcity. And women run from men who think that way.

Behold the face of a beta:

faceofabeta

***

January 2009 BOTM Candidate #3 was submitted by Yogi. It’s a news story about a man who blames himself for his wife’s plot to kill him.

Tim Kenealy was in court to support his wife Zoe as she was given seven years behind bars for attempting to take out a contract on his life with thousands of pounds of borrowed money.

He put his head in his hands as he heard Judge Gregory Stone sentence her for the “cynical and cruel” plot which saw her hand £3,000 to a neighbour to pay for the killing.

“Support his wife”. There is no relief for the mass of betas as long as there are milquetoasts like this guy in their ranks. If I was his friend, I would order an intervention. But not the Oprah-fied kind of intervention. Oh no. We’d take this schmuck out into the yard and slap him around open-palmed for a few hours like the little eggplant-up-the-ass bitch he is.

Kenealy, who had been in a violent relationship with her first husband, said she felt smothered by Mr Kenealy, and the pair were facing financial problems.

Women always feel “smothered” by betas. It’s an instinctual reaction evolved to protect their precious eggs from the tepid seed of weak men. Tip for the day: If your GF ever uses the word “smother” to describe your relationship with her, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY and don’t ever look back. You’ll thank me later.

Judge Stone told the 44-year-old care worker and mother of six she would serve at least three and a half years in prison.

44 years old?! Oh, come on. It might be somewhat understandable if not justifiable for a man to stay with a hot, young wife intent on murdering him, but not a washed up old hag. The beta is all-consuming in this guy.

Mr Kenealy said he was determined to stand by her, and said the plot to kill him must have been prompted by some sort of mental illness.

He added that he blamed himself for “taking my eye off the ball” in their relationship and that both of them had suffered from depression in the past.

A true beta ALWAYS blames himself for the wrongdoings of his woman. Wife cheats? His fault for not making her feel special in bed. Wife divorces him and takes the kids? He must have forgotten an anniversary. Wife puts out a contract to kill him? He took his eye off the ball.

“She’s such a lovable person. The Zoe that’s been written about in the papers isn’t the Zoe that everybody knows. She’s been perceived completely wrong.

“Hopefully we will have a bright future together,” he added.

Again with the hope. Hope is the last refuge of the total loser.

“But three and a half years is a long time.”

I have news for you, buddy. A corrections officer will be fucking her up the ass as soon as you see her off, and she won’t be waiting for you when she gets out. Shoot yourself, and finish the job your psycho wife couldn’t.

The voting begins:

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Posted in Beta Of The Year Contest | 385 Comments

385 Responses

  1. on January 30, 2009 at 1:18 pm Benedict Smith

    “As the oldest of six children SHE WAS USED TO SACRIFICING WHAT SHE WANTED, and she was determined not to do that. Not even for someone she loved. ”

    WTF? what did she sarcrifice other than settling, which she didn’t, b/c she’d faded and torn apart after being rode hard and hung up wet after 10 miles of bad road. i love the way people rationalize. it makes the world work.

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  2. on January 30, 2009 at 1:24 pm MarkD

    Number one, based on persistence. This is stalker territory.

    Two makes it a close contest with the “I’d do it again” line.

    Three might wake up and realize that the mental image of the woman he loves is not the real woman who tried to hire someone to kill him. Probably about the time she gets out of prison.

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  3. on January 30, 2009 at 1:26 pm Anon

    Guy #1 waiting forever for a chance to marry a girl not attracted to him is a common scenario in many marriages.

    Guy #2 was supposedly cheating.

    Guy #3 is the winner (loser).

    It’s bad enough for a bitch to metaphorically try to kill a guy by taking his assets or cheating and/or having him raise some other dude’s sperm, but Guy #3’s bee-yotch tried to wipe him off the face of the earth. WINNER.

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  4. on January 30, 2009 at 1:36 pm mtbrooks

    Definitely #1. The interminable desperation makes me ill.

    But your commentary is quite entertaining. Excellent post.

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  5. on January 30, 2009 at 1:38 pm Kirt33

    The doctor story provides a good lesson, in the sense of ‘what not to be like’, but I feel too sorry for him to vote that way.

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  6. on January 30, 2009 at 1:40 pm PA

    I voted No. 1 because he really typifies the archetypal Beta behavior, and is a mirror of many guys out there. I’ve know guys like him.

    The oteh rtwo are in very idiosyncratic situations that make for great train-wreck scenarios but their situations are so unusual that they don’t apply to most other people.

    Finally, thre is something painfully poignant about No. 2 and 3 (especially the kidney guy) , while No. one is stuff that farce is made of.

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  7. on January 30, 2009 at 1:41 pm 6 caps to the dome

    3,000 bucks to kill the guy? Talk about worth nothing. Even considering the exchange rate…Yeah, it is his fault she hired someone to waste him….Right…He gets the prize.

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  8. on January 30, 2009 at 1:43 pm Carl Sagan

    I flipped a coin between the first and third story.

    Probably the best blog post I’ve seen here this month.

    Kudos!

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  9. on January 30, 2009 at 1:44 pm lurker

    Ya know, looking back on my life, I am so proud I am not any one of these fucking losers.

    BTW, WRT the first article: the slut is a 28 year old Jewish girl in NYC. From my experience, that’s the equivalent of a 38 year old non-Jewish girl anywhere else. In other words, so desperate she’ll take anything so long as she and her 3 eggs aren’t alone anymore.

    I think its the yentas in NYC who accelerate the tiemline for them. Or maybe they all get pregnant by black guys and need some poor beta guy (but only Jewish ones) to pay for the apartment. Either really works.

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  10. on January 30, 2009 at 1:47 pm no contest

    this is really no contest the lady tried to KILL the guy wtf

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  11. on January 30, 2009 at 1:48 pm cz

    Omnicom? Isn’t that where Dr. Evil did his gap year internship?

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  12. on January 30, 2009 at 2:01 pm lurker

    On another topic:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090130084155.htm

    women are flirting sluts who will fuck with your mind. This is why we need game.

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  13. on January 30, 2009 at 2:13 pm Canadian Exile

    I have to go with #3, pretty much for the opposite reason PA gives above.

    #1 is just sadly typical; there are probably thousands of guys just like him out there, so he doesn’t really warrant “Beta of the Month/Year”. Beta of the day, maybe.

    #2 has a twist, what with the kidney and all, but when you come down to it it’s just another case of a giving his wife everything he has and then getting repaid by whoring it up on the side and using the courts to steal whatever he has left. Sure, he literally gave her his flesh and blood, but the principle is the same as all the other cases where the guy “only” gives her all his assets, earnings, etc.
    Plus, at least this guy finally deverloped the balls to argue that he should get his kidney back (or, presumably, have the value of it deducted from the assets she would otherwise steal from him in the divorce).

    #3 is just off the charts, though. She literally tried to have him killed, and if she wasn’t sleeping with the hitman, she sure was with someone. And yet he blames himself.

    By the way, anyone think that a husband who took out a contract on his wife would get sentenced to 3 1/2 years?

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  14. on January 30, 2009 at 2:18 pm Anonymous

    Cool study Lurker.

    Also, I must say just reading about these beta tales of woe makes me reflect upon just how indifferent the universe is.

    We really are just “gene machines.”

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  15. on January 30, 2009 at 2:23 pm jkc

    #3, hands down. i can’t believe there were so many votes for #1. dude almost gets waxed by his wife and he blames himself? fuck that shit. no matter the outcome he loses, forever.

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  16. on January 30, 2009 at 2:25 pm gig

    It is clear that in #3 the whorewife was incapable of doing it correctly. So he ran no risk at all. Her attempt in killing him made me remember of this: http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/09012401.html
    certain things must be done by men. or by a wife with her husband’s weapon.

    case #1 is all to typical. If it wins, we can find similar cases every single month.

    case #2 is special. There are not so many betas donating kidneys around. And even less to whores who were cheating them. I go with the minority and vote case #2

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  17. on January 30, 2009 at 2:37 pm Colin Bowel

    I voted for number one because he did it ALL to himself.

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  18. on January 30, 2009 at 2:41 pm lance

    for me, it’s between 1 and 2. the last guy, he feels more omega than beta. he’s basically trying to commit suicide through his relationship, and negating his very value as a human being. beta behavior has a certain amount of hope for basic happiness; it just negates a man’s value as a man.

    it’s sad, but there’s nothing really special about the first guy’s story. i’m willing to bet that at least a third of the couples who have their weddings announced in the nytimes have comparable stories. and that’s a very conservative estimate.

    you would be tempted to excuse contestant number 2 for wanting to save the life of the mother of his children. it’s an admirable that a man would display this sort of courage; unfortunately, it was courage towards such a ridiculous end. basically, he gave something of extreme value, his kidney, and traded it for something of quickly fading value: his wife’s love and affection towards him.

    number 1 is the archetype of the contemporary beta and number 2 quite literally tried to sav-a-ho. what a tough call!

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  19. on January 30, 2009 at 2:41 pm lurker

    #1 is an extreme version of the norm. How many times did they break up? How long did he pine for that dried up troll’s kosher pussy? Was her poontang made of 24 carat pubic hair or something?

    Dude loved her when she became a literal fat Crohn. gotta love it.

    Whatever kids pop out of #1’s marriage, they ain’t his.

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  20. on January 30, 2009 at 2:42 pm Sean

    I’d really have to go with #3 on this one.

    With #1, however beta our soon-to-be-divorced chump may be, his situation is pretty common, as Anon and PA said, but archetypal is not special; BOTM is all about going above and beyond the call of duty in beta-tude.

    With #2, Our kidney-donating chump is at the very least trying to fight back against his bone-headed donation; if you read the articles, you’d find that he’s suing his whore of an ex-wife for $1.5 million (kidney retribution?). He won’t win it, but at the very least, he’s aware that something seriously fucked up has occurred, and probably won’t make the same mistake again. And what could make a future alpha more than a $1.5 million mistake to forever remember?

    #3 however, is unusual (good sign), incredibly fucked up (even better), and shows ZERO awareness on the part of the beta that he is, in fact, retarded. If your bitch is crazy, and you decide to put up with it, that’s your decision. I’ve been there myself. But if your bitch is crazy and then tries to kill you, it’s at this point you should probably move the fuck on, and go find yourself someone else; at the very least, a younger, more attractive crazy.

    #3 FTW.

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  21. on January 30, 2009 at 2:44 pm Affe

    I love the lack of close-up, full face wedding photos in the NYTimes article. They’re obviously both quite proud.

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  22. on January 30, 2009 at 2:48 pm Random

    #3 for sure. #1 is much more relatable – we see guys like this all the time, and when I was younger I was in this situation as the dopey, manipulated “friend” who thought he was getting somewhere when the girl was banging someone else. It does take a special kind of loser though to hold on after all that time, especially after she’s all washed up.

    #3 though is just insane…the bitch tried to get him killed. I’m of the opinion that even life as a beta is better than no life at all. He can still get gratification from porn and whatever hobbies he might have. The other guy could have fucking died.

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  23. on January 30, 2009 at 2:50 pm PA

    (I originally posted this on a wrong thread)

    In reading through all of those BOTY stories, what strikes me as evident is that proper Game would have saved all of those men from their humiliations. None of those things would have happened if these guys:

    1) screened out women with ulterior motives or personality red flags. Game teaches how to do this.

    2) married women who love them rather than settle for them. You don’t need to be a top 10% genetic / wealth / fame specimen to get a girl to love you. All you need is Game.

    3) Kept her in love with him. Game does a marriage good.

    What most of those BOTY dopes did was marry immoral women who were settling for these guys and further aggrevated the situation by acting like betas every day of their marriage.

    A caveat: with some BOTYs, you can’t rule out masochistic elements in those schmucks’ personalities, in which case they were not so much “victims” of their wives as willing players in a situation that finally blew up in their face.

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  24. on January 30, 2009 at 2:50 pm Thursday

    I have to go with number #1. It’s long, drawn out disgustingness worms it’s way into your soul. #2 and #3 are just Jerry Springer freakshows.

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  25. on January 30, 2009 at 2:53 pm Sean

    @ Affe

    You know, I noticed the lack of face-shots too. I suspect she’s very much a leathery harpy.

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  26. on January 30, 2009 at 2:54 pm gig

    about #1, given that I am not used to jewish habits, isn’t it reasonable to think that their jewish background will ensure that the marriage will last? are divorce rates among jews as bad as among the gentiles?

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  27. on January 30, 2009 at 2:56 pm gig

    If jews don’t divorce as gentiles, #1 is not so beta at all.
    He scored a hot chick. Only after she was way closer to 30 than 20. But he wouldn’t do any better by being beta. He did the most he could do and may have a stable marriage. Also, his situation describes maybe 50% of all marriages.

    #1 shouldn’t be on the list

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  28. on January 30, 2009 at 2:59 pm anon

    ” he’s aware that something seriously fucked up has occurred, and probably won’t make the same mistake again”
    Lets hope, for his sake, he doesn’t donate anymore kidneys.

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  29. on January 30, 2009 at 2:59 pm lance

    BTW, the very first line in this nytimes article is enough to make me vomit in my mouth:

    SOME might call David Deckelbaum a true romantic, but he would probably laugh at the notion. He’s simply a man who knows what he wants. And he has wanted Rochelle Lichtman since the day they met.

    i love how the writer tries to spin this tool’s behavior and make him look like a determined, confident, go-getter who ‘knows what he wants’; when, in fact, this guy lacks any semblance of real self-awareness.

    the nytimes is basically trying to fool you into thinking that this guy’s extreme beta behavior is something to be viewed in a favorable light. is the sheep in wolf’s clothing the mascot for 21st century america?

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  30. on January 30, 2009 at 3:08 pm David Alexander

    Guy #1 waiting forever for a chance to marry a girl not attracted to him is a common scenario in many marriages.

    I used to do that, but then I learned that females are incapable of attraction and love toward beta males.

    Or maybe they all get pregnant by black guys

    I’d like a cute little mixed race Jewish baby. 🙂

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  31. on January 30, 2009 at 3:16 pm David Alexander

    married women who love them rather than settle for them

    Women are incapable of loving beta males. A platonic relationship is probably the truest and highest expression of an emotional bond with a beta male.

    Kept her in love with him. Game does a marriage good.

    She loves the game, not you. I’d rather she love me for who I am as a person, but then I believe in soulmates and the idea that your best friend is your wife/lifepartner.

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  32. on January 30, 2009 at 3:18 pm Gunner

    What’s with treating a 28 year old woman as used up, if you marry a woman she’s going to get ugly eventually. It’s a question of when. And if you have kids with her she’s going to look worse even faster. In the great scheme of things if your marrying a woman there isn’t such a big difference between a 24 year old and a 28 year old. So yeah the first guy is a beta, but not particularly beta, he’s just a normal beta who picked a sort of bitchy girl. Shit happens.

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  33. on January 30, 2009 at 3:23 pm David Alexander

    married women who love them rather than settle for them

    Women are incapable of loving beta males. A platonic relationship is probably the truest and highest expression of an emotional bond with a beta male.

    Kept her in love with him. Game does a marriage good.

    She loves the game, not you. I’d rather she love me for who I am as a person, but then I believe in soulmates and the idea that your best friend is your wife.

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  34. on January 30, 2009 at 3:23 pm sara I

    Not too many votes on this one, roissy. Perhaps people are considering your anti-beta diatribes rather beta. Or maybe it’s just me. I mean really. How obvious is it that those who play victim attract victimizers like flies to shit? Your “beta” labeling is an attempt to make yourself feel like a BMOC, which of course you are not else you would just let….it….go and dispense with the “I’m a bigger dick than you are” bullshit.

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  35. on January 30, 2009 at 3:24 pm Sean

    @ Gunner,

    She’s not used up because she’s 28; she’s used up because she slept around with a ton of guys, gave lucid details about each one to to her LJBF companion, and then settled for him once she became too gross and, well, used up for any man that hadn’t had a hopeless crush on her since they met.

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  36. on January 30, 2009 at 3:26 pm PA

    Women are incapable of loving beta males.

    That’s correct. That’s why you have to accentuate your better qualities and become an alpha in her eyes.

    A platonic relationship is probably the truest and highest expression of an emotional bond with a beta male.

    True, but only if she doesn’t perceive so much as a molecule of sexual in on his part.

    She loves the game, not you.

    If game is part of who you are, then she loves you.

    I’d rather she love me for who I am as a person, but then I believe in soulmates and the idea that your best friend is your wife/lifepartner.

    I believe in all that too. And after learning game, I found it.

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  37. on January 30, 2009 at 3:27 pm PA

    so much as a molecule of sexual interest on his part

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  38. on January 30, 2009 at 3:37 pm Lupo

    #2 is a fool, but at least he’s suing the bitch. #3 is so far beyond the pale as to be a form of insanity. Therefore, #1, as common a story as it may be, wins my vote.

    Cool article, Lurker, though it suffers from quite a lot of selection bias. Speed dating? Might be easy for scientists to study, but I doubt it tells us anything about human beings who aren’t that desperate.

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  39. on January 30, 2009 at 3:37 pm lurker

    gig:

    you’re confusing secular jews with religious jews. Basically, you’re making the wrong division here. the division isn’t jew/non-jew, its religious/non-religious.

    Orthodox jews are like strict catholics: they will never get divorces. Secular jews, like lapsed catholics, do it all the time Christ (ironically said), Larry King’s been married something like 9 times.

    Second, even she stays with him, she’s definitely going to make sure she carries some alpha seed at one point. She was probably eyeing up the cantor at the ceremony and gave a bj the night before to her boss, who was attending the ceremony.

    The only noticeable traits in regards to marriage among secular jews is the young ages of first marriages and extreme unwillingness to marry non-jews. Jewish mothers have this built in “anti-30” pill that they infect their daughters with at age 25. A jewish girl is done playing with goyim at 25 and seriously dr. hunting.

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  40. on January 30, 2009 at 3:41 pm kthulah

    Okay, I’m sorry, but I have to say it.

    David, in humans there is considerable overlap in apparent social hierarchy. In the past, people didn’t usually only have 2.5 or fewer children. Since even the biological definition of alpha (person/animal) is the one with the highest rank and access to/command over the most resources, a man who is the head of his household is the alpha male of his household.

    In fact, even if you look at normal family disputes and soap operas, problems in this occur usually when hierarchy is blurred.

    So all a guy really needs to do is prove that he would be the king of his own castle, to be loved. It’s just with hot and other women who compete for men with wider scale rank, that “betaness” becomes an issue. Not all women are competing for the politicians and CEO’s. They don’t live in that world, so it’s not really relevant to them.

    What’s relevant is that a guy not be blown off course by the whims of the woman he’s with or others, and that he’s not inspiring her pity. For a woman, respect is the foundation of romantic love. This is why it would seem that they can only love wider scale alphas, but the fact is that a small scale family level alpha is enough.

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  41. on January 30, 2009 at 3:41 pm GJ

    #1 for some reason calls out to me as the winner, but #3 fucking tried to have the guy KILLED for fuck’s sake, and that’s pretty impressive, as is his continued self flagellation. #2 is sad, but as pointed out, at least he’s fighting back (although the fact he says he’d do it again hurts my soul, but his wording almost seems to make it so he looks like a good guy as he sues her).

    Gonna have to go with #3. As also pointed out, #1 happens all the time, this particular beta just happened to get some media attention.

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  42. on January 30, 2009 at 3:43 pm agnostic

    Here’s the murderous wife and her husband:

    http://images.google.com/images?q=zoe%20kenealy&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

    God damn English women are ugly.

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  43. on January 30, 2009 at 3:43 pm Grim

    #3 was just a fucked up retard. I think his lack of brain cells cause this, not his betaness.

    #2 at least the guy is pointing out what a piece of trash his ex is and he is probably getting banged just due to the fame it generated. It’s not good game, but it’s better than beta game.

    #1 is typical hyper beta game. It’s getting the votes because this is an example of the type of game a lot of us betas end up playing. He’s the beta of the month because it’s an extream version of what beta’s do.

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  44. on January 30, 2009 at 3:44 pm Fabian

    I’m surprised at the number of people who voted for #1. When judging the absolute scale of beta-ness, age and experience must be considered. Like others have said, the guy in #1 is just a typical, young, inexperienced pushover who’s still ingratiated to the old chivalrous Hollywood mythology about the proper way to treat women. He’s pathetic for sure, but he can still learn and grow. Whether he will isn’t certain, but it’s possible. So it’s a close call between #2 and #3. Both guys are older and more experienced, so in theory they should be more seasoned in female “thinking”. But #3 wins. Anyone who isn’t a vicious wife-beater and thinks he deserves to get murdered by his wife has obviously sunk so far down the scale of manliness that he’d probably do any sick, disgusting, putrid thing a woman asked him to do. He needs to be put out of his misery.

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  45. on January 30, 2009 at 3:47 pm David Alexander

    That’s why you have to accentuate your better qualities and become an alpha in her eyes.

    Now that’s funny. If a beta male had said “better qualities”, he would have been an alpha already.

    True, but only if she doesn’t perceive so much as a molecule of sexual in on his part.

    If you’d bang her if she asked, then it’s not a platonic relationship, but a poorly played waiting game.

    If game is part of who you are, then she loves you.

    Those are guys who had their alpha tendencies sharpened quite a bit. As an example, I give my Russian friend who essentially became a gamer after watching his g/f cheat on him with a de facto alpha. He dumped her, became a player, and can score women, but he’s unable to keep them for anything longer than a short-term relationship. Mind you, from what I know of him, he’s always had such tendencies, it was simply being dumped that helped him to sharpen them and release them from deprecation.

    In my case, I have no alpha tendencies or “better qualities”, so game is fundamentally useless. Besides, judging from what I’ve read from the alpha types here, you may be happy, but I just can’t be you. Even in my own deepest thoughts, the idea of “copying” you is what fuels nightmares and questions about who I am as a person, and can I look myself and be you without feeling dirty. So yes, I’d rather be alone and happy with myself than become *you* and have women to bang.

    I believe in all that too. And after learning game, I found it.

    If game is simply releasing a deprecated alpha tendency, then it may happen. Otherwise, game for pure betas just leads to an empty hollow relationship until she finds a real alpha.

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  46. on January 30, 2009 at 3:47 pm agnostic

    “I spent all these years trying to figure out who I was”

    Beware investing long-term in any woman who talks about figuring out who I am, finding myself, etc.

    Yeah, figuring out how much cock you can take in a year, and finding yourself in bed with dozens of grimy locals while you travel.

    Those bad-boys that she’d been with knew how to recognize her kind, and got out of her what she’s good for. The tampon who married her is disgusting.

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  47. on January 30, 2009 at 3:48 pm PA

    God damn English women are ugly.

    I can’t stand one goddamn thing about the English. It probably has to do how evil that country’s institutions are. To hear some bitch on BBC read off a teleprompter with that crisply soulless accent freezes my blood.

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  48. on January 30, 2009 at 3:54 pm Slit Wrists

    I’d like a cute little mixed race Jewish baby

    Hey, there is always rape! Actually, just kill yourself.

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  49. on January 30, 2009 at 4:04 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Bravo! Great writing. Probably all of us get where these guys are coming from to some degree and need to make sure never to go there.

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  50. on January 30, 2009 at 4:06 pm anonymous

    Check this out: http://mollytics.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/yowza-rochelle-david-in-the-new-york-times/

    then check out the rest of the website, what a gem!

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  51. on January 30, 2009 at 4:24 pm lurker

    A liberal DC Jew chick thrilled one of her tribe snagged a beta male to cheat on and then divorce within the next 7 years?

    *yawn.* next please.

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  52. on January 30, 2009 at 4:26 pm No worries

    Everybody is a winner here – all three are deserving nominees.

    I voted for the kidney guy, because he actually mutilated his own body on purpose for her. #3 I ruled out because there’s something really crazy going on there, beyond alpha-beta discussion. That’s not a question of game and attraction – it’s just mental illness.

    The more I think about it, though, I wonder if #2 falls into that boat, too. #1 is really the embodiment of what women resent about beta behavior, and the fact that the New York Times is holding it up as a good story (men: be a beta because in the end you will WIN) makes it that much more perfect.

    I also like how one could craft a novel around all three pieces. After wasting his youth chasing a self-absorbed harlot who hates him, our protagonist gets the girl (Yay! Princess wedding!), gives her a kidney (let’s call it a liver after she blew hers with liquor and STDs), and when he still won’t divorce her after she openly cheats on him, she finally uses his money to pay to have him killed.

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  53. on January 30, 2009 at 4:26 pm curious

    if #1 knocks her up a few times, does that reduce his betaness?

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  54. on January 30, 2009 at 4:27 pm lurker

    anyone ever notice that in Hollywood movies, more and more, when a relationship ends over infidelity, the man will blame himself?

    brainwashing 101.

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  55. on January 30, 2009 at 4:37 pm Pope Goaz D'Weezil

    #3 reeks of serious mental defects (likely on both sides). I went with #1 because it was quintessential beta and nothing else. The available facts and Roissy’s treatment of each also weighed in here. It’s sickening how this is spun into a positive “love story” by the original source.

    I don’t think #2 is terribly beta from the facts given. She is just a worthless cunt.

    Best post of the year by Roissy so far. Nails the beta syndrome very well.

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  56. on January 30, 2009 at 4:41 pm Sparks123

    I voted for #3. What is the worst thing something could do you? This women hated this man so much that she was willing to risk her freedom in exchange for his life. And he still loves her? The others pale.

    Did anyone think Mollytics site was Roissy’s for a quarter-second? I chuckled over it.

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  57. on January 30, 2009 at 4:45 pm aquarius chick w/ tat

    I voted for #1. But reading the comments I could make a case for #2; #3 is too pathetic for words and I don’t the others should be in his category.

    On a different note, this is my first post but I have been reading for a while now. It wasn’t until I surfed in here that I understood why I don’t like “nice” guys. I never have all the way back to high school. By the time I graduated college I was throughly convinced something was wrong with me because the guys who would make good husbands (the boring ones) I couldn’t stand to be around for any length of time. One of the main problems I’ve always had with these men is a lack of boundaries: they never say no. I can do anything I want and they just roll with. How can I respect you?

    The only thing that’s different in my experience is that I never once considered compromising by even talking to, much less touching, one of these beta dudes. And my reward for not compromising is I got my alpha at age 38 (he’s 35). So, the only thing I disagree with you about Roissy is that women over 30 are incapable of getting an alpha male to commit. It depends on the woman and how she carries herself. The women you talk about sleep around alot and that makes a difference. I was sexless for 6 years before my boyfriend and I got together. (Don’t like the word celibate. A bit too pretentious)

    Oh, and since I’ve been reading here for a while, I expect to be challenged but I’m okay with it because nothing I’ve said is untrue. You may not believe it, but it’s true.

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  58. on January 30, 2009 at 4:46 pm Anon

    Here’s ANOTHER story from the NY Times that is EXACTLY the same story as Guy #1:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/fashion/11love.html?sq=russian%20lev&st=cse&scp=3&pagewanted=all

    I love the end where she says he’s still hoping for sex.

    WTF do these guys go after slutty, washed up Jewish bitches who will inevitably divorce them after popping out 2-3 child support units from their shop-worn vaginas?

    No break up with a Jewish chick ends well. Especially one that WILL involve Jewish divorce lawyers.

    God help any man who has no other option but to marry an American Jewish chick.

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  59. on January 30, 2009 at 4:47 pm David Alexander

    Hey, there is always rape!

    I’m sorry, I don’t resort to such tactics. I would like to be married to the mother my children in a loving and committed relationship where I can play an active role in their lives.

    OTOH, that will never happen for me.

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  60. on January 30, 2009 at 4:51 pm Anon

    “if #1 knocks her up a few times, does that reduce his betaness?”

    No, the only thing that will be reduced is his bank account due to child support payments.

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  61. on January 30, 2009 at 4:52 pm Random

    Had the lady in #1 never accepted his advances, the perception of the story would not be that he’s a caring romantic type of guy who just got shot down, but more that he’s a crazy stalker. The Hollywood story where the man has to be persistent is creepy in real life.

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  62. on January 30, 2009 at 4:53 pm Dave from Hawaii

    lance wrote: for me, it’s between 1 and 2. the last guy, he feels more omega than beta.

    I think you’re on to something here…when men get married, one of the biggest problems is that there formerly alpha behavior disappears through complacency, laziness and/or sheer ignorance, turning into the beta that results in his wife losing respect for him, falling out of lust with him and opening the door for her to backwards rationalize and self-justify her affair(s) and subsequent parasitic ass raping of him in divorce court.

    #3 probably serves as an example of a beta who actually became Omega…his wife found him so contemptuous, she actually wanted him dead instead of chaining him into alimony/child support slavery.

    So if we do disqualify #3 on the grounds of Omega-ness, #1 should win, since #2 was trying to save the life of the mother of his children…far more understandable and excusable than #1’s absolutely pathetic beta-tude.

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  63. on January 30, 2009 at 5:05 pm Sean

    Oh, Dave’s back. Haven’t heard from him in a while.

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  64. on January 30, 2009 at 5:07 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Never left. I read this blog every weekday when I’m here at work. I just don’t always feel inspired or motivated by the topic du jour to weigh in.

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  65. on January 30, 2009 at 5:12 pm Adam

    Wow, these are big-time Betas. You could vote for any of ’em and you would have a legit argument.

    Classic Roissy: “Tip for the day: If your GF ever uses the word “smother” to describe your relationship with her, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY and don’t ever look back. You’ll thank me later.”

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  66. on January 30, 2009 at 5:14 pm Golden Seed

    #1 is the winner

    10 years of desperate bleating and hopeless masterbating/crying for her. i bet in those 10 years he didnt get laid once. he is pathetic bordering on omega territory.

    #2 is certainly pathetic but not as bad as #1.

    #3: It takes a certain kind of person to be able to kill someone (or attempt to). We dont know his betaness caused her to try to kill him. The bitch is crazy and immoral. the same betaness applied to another women would likely cause her to cheat on and leave him, but not attempt to kill him.

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  67. on January 30, 2009 at 5:16 pm Wounded Animal

    Close b/t 1 and 3 but I’m going with 1. roissy’s commentary–great job. Also, remind myself to keep my own amiable tendencies towards LJBF-hood in check.

    Those pics ice it for me. Somebody’s compensating big-time here. It’s taking at least a couple hundred grand so this teddy bear schlep can avoid thinking about how many times this chick’s been passed around over him. I mean dude, you’re not marrying Agnes of Rome.

    What had to have been really bad was honeymoon night, when he’s scuttling around half dressed because he left the stove on/has to brush his teeth/turn on CD player/etc. and she’s lying there waiting for him to get his fumbling act together, getting drier by the second and ticking off the points, prior lover by prior lover.

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  68. on January 30, 2009 at 5:24 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    “if #1 knocks her up a few times, does that reduce his betaness?”

    No, it quadruples it. When they divorce (note the “when”), she gets to scuttle off with the kids (whom he’ll never see) and shack up with an Alpha …. and he gets to make massive child support AND alimony payments determined by the STATE.*

    Google “Glenn Sacks” for further details.

    *When you have kids, you become part of the Family Court Industrial Complex and lose many of your basic rights. Only men become entrapped in this system. Women have “get out free” passes, the best-known of which goes by the term “abortion.”

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  69. on January 30, 2009 at 5:25 pm Sean

    @ Dave

    I can relate; I’ve been reading this blog since the summer, but only just decided to start pitching in.

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  70. on January 30, 2009 at 5:28 pm David Alexander

    shack up with an Alpha

    Wait, wait. An alpha would bang an woman with kids. It doesn’t seem to make sense given that alpha males can pick younger and/or better looking women without kids…

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  71. on January 30, 2009 at 5:29 pm DarkIndy

    #1 gets my vote.

    This story does the most harm of all of the contendors. It is the only story that will have mothers emailing it to their beta boys. They will tell them it is proof they were right about all the advice to be a nice guy is true. It gives the beta’s the most hope that their stalking actions can pay off with years of dedication. It feeds the fantasy, and their will never be a follow up story letting you know it failed.

    Yes the beta’s actions are not different then any other beta that is the “good friend” but the supposed results of happiness will do the most harm. The other two stories even a beta can come to agree they are just crazy.

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  72. on January 30, 2009 at 5:31 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Wait, wait. An alpha would bang an woman with kids. It doesn’t seem to make sense given that alpha males can pick younger and/or better looking women without kids…

    DA – your conflating “Alpha” with “Player.” Not all alpha’s are players…

    What she will do is shack up with a bad boy/loser type (that displays alpha-dominance traits that get her excited) who is only too happy to have an easy lay that supports his subsistence with her beta-ex’s alimony and child support.

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  73. on January 30, 2009 at 5:39 pm David Alexander

    What she will do is shack up with a bad boy/loser type (that displays alpha-dominance traits that get her excited) who is only too happy to have an easy lay that supports his subsistence with her beta-ex’s alimony and child support.

    While I’ll refrain from making a dangerous presumption that a woman would avoid letting bad boy types around their children for a “replacement dad”, why would a bad boy saddle himself with a woman with kids when he can extract resources from a single childless woman instead?

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  74. on January 30, 2009 at 5:46 pm Ba1anced-A Beta with Alpha Tendencies

    Story 2 had my vote before I read story 3…..Which took the FUCKIN’ cake. Story 1 is like the Forrest Gump / Jenny story …except the guy in real life must have been willfully mentally slow. It happens so often that it’s not anything special….or even tragic.

    Speaking of movies….you will hear about alot of women loving the movie “Pretty Woman”. It is the fantasy of a Rich and Successful guy, falling madly in love with a KNOWN Whore. Some women luck out big time and actually have this happen to them, but’s it’s more like lottery odds.

    Finally, ladies better not underestimate the Broken Will of some Betas. You could literally get you and your whole family wiped out like in this story:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Pardo

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  75. on January 30, 2009 at 5:54 pm Dave from Hawaii

    why would a bad boy saddle himself with a woman with kids when he can extract resources from a single childless woman instead?

    Because he’s lazy. Besides, he wouldn’t be “saddling” himself…he would be leeching off of HER and her ex-husband’s garnished wages.

    Seen it happen plenty of times here in Hawaii. Many a divorced woman has the surf-bum with no job move in with her, while she works, he surfs. If there’s no surf, he’s at home watching tv, smoking dope while the kids are at school.

    It happens…alot. Responsible beta provider is slaving away to pay for her and her exciting bad boy loser that she has “fun” with.

    BTW – said loser, will often also be banging other chicks while still mooching off of single mother and ex-husband.

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  76. on January 30, 2009 at 6:01 pm David Alexander

    It happens…alot. Responsible beta provider is slaving away to pay for her and her exciting bad boy loser that she has “fun” with.

    One would suspect that he’d have more fun with a single woman with no kids, but never underestimate the laziness of certain males and cravings of females for alphas.

    Interestingly, I’d rather pay higher taxes to a single mom in an indirect fashion than pay direct child support to my ex-wife. Somehow, the former is less degrading than watching some guy live off my money. Of course, the ideal should be reform of child support and alimony laws along with increased opportunities for custody by the father.

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  77. on January 30, 2009 at 6:12 pm cz

    #1. Enabler?

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  78. on January 30, 2009 at 6:39 pm justagirl

    #1 is by far the most beta. #2 is at least fighting back now. Even though he probably won’t win his kidney back, he is at least getting some sort of revenge by publicizing his wife’s philandering. The woman in #3 obviously does have some serious psychological issues, and maybe her husband is right when he says the woman who plotted to kill him is not the “real” Zoe.

    However, even though I think this blog sometimes disturbing to read (I have read for a while but never commented) because of Roissy’s misogyny, I remember when I first read the #1 story in the NYT. I shuddered to myself when I thought about the possibility of someday marrying one of the creepy guys that stare awkwardly and seem to know way to much about me. I don’t think I could ever be “just friends” with that type of guy either because it would just be too cruel.

    The #1 reason #1 deserves this “award” however, is that the man allowed the story to be published in the NYT. If not for that, as some commenters have mentioned, it would just be a slightly extreme version of the run-of-the-mill girl marrying a beta story. But the fact he seemed to cooperate with the printing of this embarrassing story is why he should be beta of the month.

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  79. on January 30, 2009 at 6:40 pm Bhetti B

    PA: “It probably has to do how evil that country’s institutions are. To hear some bitch on BBC read off a teleprompter with that crisply soulless accent freezes my blood.”

    Evil in contrast to whom? I’ve just never heard anyone describe UK “institutions” as evil! (institutions being Parliament, The Government, the media.. ?)

    —

    I really wanted to vote for number one, because the behaviour is typical. However, I do think number three is the theoretical culmination of number one: DUDE, SHE TRIED TO KILL YOU, GET THE MESSAGE. To be fair, he must be suffering serious mental problems that go beyond beta, inventing new dimensions of beyond betaness. We musn’t torture him, but wait that shows him how much we love him. Or wait, we need to hire somebody to “prove” it, because this is just low-level affection.

    I wonder what’s preferable for an obsessed beta: for her to not know he exists or for her to detest him so much that she wants him dead?

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  80. on January 30, 2009 at 6:49 pm Rain And

    I can’t fucking believe this. How are people here picking #1 over #3.. it doesn’t make a bit of sense.

    We’re voting on Beta of the YEAR. It’s a contest. The first guy is just generic beta. So what?

    That story is a dime a dozen. Someone above linked an identical, even somewhat worse, recent story from the New York Times about another Jew slut and her supplicating Jew settle-beta. She brags about growing fat from the dinners her buys her, while he just sits there “supportively” and smiles about it: “I became fatter and his wallet became thinner. He didn’t seem to mind either one. ”

    Maybe I’m crazy, but the Beta of the YEAR needs to be an example of beta so unusual in its extremeness that you actually REMEMBER it. I won’t remember the Jewish guy in three months because the Times runs the same damn story every week. But I’m sure as hell going to remember the story about the guy still offering love and emotional “support” to the hideously ugly troll wife who is going to prison for putting a hit on him.

    God DAMN.

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  81. on January 30, 2009 at 6:51 pm Rain And

    Should read “She brags about growing fat from the dinners HE buys her”.

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  82. on January 30, 2009 at 6:54 pm dhurka

    C’mon gotta be the kidney guy. Donating a kidney takes 10 years off you life. The other guys sacrafices dignity, self respect, money, time and all the rest. But they will live long pathetic beta lives. The doctor gave up half of his remaining years so that she could meet a new lover. Now thats beta.

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  83. on January 30, 2009 at 6:54 pm curious

    Anon,

    I agree on the more child support angle – but wouldn’t her already fading looks be worsened by kids and with an inevitable divorce down the line, is she really going to be anything other than a single bitter divorcee who didn’t realize how good she had it?

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  84. on January 30, 2009 at 7:31 pm ironrailsironweights

    This is one of the most depressing things I’ve seen … this chick must be in her fifties, yet she’s getting rid of her GNP in favor of the hideous pedophilic* Bald Eagle 😦 What a way to ruin the upcoming weekend.

    * = admittedly, it’s really stretching the definition of “pedophilic,” but whatever

    Peter

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  85. on January 30, 2009 at 7:49 pm Racer X

    The first guy is clearly the biggest beta. He simply needs to be castrated.

    He might be gay too, based on that faggy wedding photo. Still, his genes should never be allowed further to pollute the human face.

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  86. on January 30, 2009 at 7:50 pm Racer X

    the human “race” that is…

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  87. on January 30, 2009 at 8:04 pm Gak Flower

    Beta of the day — http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-28/what-do-you-mean-its-weird/

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  88. on January 30, 2009 at 8:04 pm Bhetti B

    I don’t think it’s a big deal about the kidney. I’d witnessed a case where a patient said about eight of family and friends volunteered kidneys. It’s more of a social expectation, especially from a doctor. A doctor’s role is to do all in their power to make people healthy; that’s their identity and that’s exactly what he was doing. What says bitter beta more than anything is bringing it up again; he never chases down a paedophile/attempted suicide demanding he return however many hours of surgery he used to work on him.

    It’s really not much of a choice. She was his official wife — the mother of the children — and not giving it to her would just be inconcievable to people. If he wasn’t a beta, he would’ve allowed the marriage to die when it was supposed to.

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  89. on January 30, 2009 at 8:05 pm Expose jew scum

    Surname = Lichtman? She has Crohn’s disease? She is fat and depressed?

    Ms. Lichtman is a pathetic Jew bitch.

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  90. on January 30, 2009 at 8:15 pm whiskey

    Aquarius — no guy three years younger than you marrying you is Alpha. Unless he’s banging girls on the side and you are supporting his drug habit or whatever. He’s not Alpha.

    You certainly could get an Alpha guy, in his late forties or early fifties. But let’s be realistic here shall we?

    I voted #1. The #2 guy seemed too out there and desperate to save a marriage/family. The #3 guy is mentally ill, and not very smart judging from the pictures.

    But #1 is totally beta. The biggest beta loser ever. And it’s sad, because THAT is what society, Hollywood, and all the other message movies where guys get their idiot ideas of how the world works and what women are like, preach every time.

    Think Lloyd Dobler (King of the Betas) or Ducky in Pretty in Pink or most Apatow schlub movies or a whole host of that stuff. It’s not as if their fathers (if any are around) teach them how to deal with women, because that stuff was not needed back in their day.

    Yes of course Aquarius chick was spot on — women HATE betas and don’t even want to talk to them. I’m sure that marriage of #1 will be over soon, the woman is probably doing guys on the side now.

    David Alexander — typical move for a bad boy Alpha: sex intermittently with hot but promiscious single women, a number of them, between say 3-5 women, and a woman with kids and income who supports said bad boy. He has sex with the older woman with the kids, beats the male children and molests the girls, this is the typical life as chronicled by Dalrymple. The older woman with kids won’t throw the bum out because she chooses sex with the bad boy over her kids. In fact, women almost always choose their own sex lives over their kids.

    They have since the Sexual Revolution. This is one thing that our broken culture needs fixed — kids coming first. It is in fact a shocking exception when women put kids first over their own desires.

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  91. on January 30, 2009 at 8:29 pm David Alexander

    Yes of course Aquarius chick was spot on — women HATE betas and don’t even want to talk to them

    That’s the main problem. Women just simply aren’t attracted to beta males, and once you tell an beta male that he’ll always be the third rate choice for female, most will probably not want to be a beta provider and get married. The only choice at this point is to simply only allow children to be raised communally by professionals to prevent abuse by bad-boy boyfriends, and to prevent mothers and fathers from living in soul-sucking marriages.

    beats the male children and molests the girls

    I’ve told my nephew and niece that if their respective mother’s boyfriends are abusers or molesters that they should report it to the authorities, and call a grown-up family member ASAP.

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  92. on January 30, 2009 at 8:35 pm PA

    That’s the main problem. Women just simply aren’t attracted to beta males, and once you tell an beta male that he’ll always be the third rate choice for female, most will probably not want to be a beta provider and get married.

    For fun, would you venture to describe a plausible Alpha version of David Alexander? A version of DA five years from now is OK.

    I’ve told my nephew and niece that if their respective mother’s boyfriends are abusers or molesters that they should report it to the authorities, and call a grown-up family member ASAP.

    Stuff like this shows that you are a guy with a good head on your shoulders.

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  93. on January 30, 2009 at 8:36 pm Jack

    Remember boys – if she doesn’t want you when she’s 22, 23, 24, you don’t want her when she’s 30, 32, 34.

    No exceptions. Sure, bang her and leave her, but don’t commit to her.

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  94. on January 30, 2009 at 8:43 pm PA

    He has sex with the older woman with the kids, beats the male children and molests the girls, this is the typical life as chronicled by Dalrymple.

    Whiskey, I haven’t read Dalrymple’s books. Are these kids typically products of pumps & dumps, or kids of divorced dads?

    It can’t be the latter, methinks. If I was some divorced beta and I suspected that my ex is exposing my kids (over whom I have no custody) to abusers, I’d do something that would land me in prison for a very long time.

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  95. on January 30, 2009 at 8:45 pm Zarathustra

    He has sex with the older woman with the kids, beats the male children and molests the girls, this is the typical life as chronicled by Dalrymple.

    It’s rather shocking that you, all of the people on this board, have imbibed the 70’s gender feminist Kool-Aid so heavily; the fact that these men are losers and have low paying jobs doesn’t make them any more likely to be pedophiles and child abusers than your average workoholic overacheiver beta sap.

    Decades ago feminists created this narrative that second husbands of divorced women were mostly interested in fucking their wives’ daughters to provide justification for exorbitant child support decrees. You, of anyone, should be somewhat reticent about carelessly spreading this myth.

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  96. on January 30, 2009 at 9:08 pm sara I

    FOR LADIES ONLY

    Words and music by John Kay, Jerry Edmonton, Goldie McJohn and Kent Henry

    What you say to drive that girl away
    When she’s the one and only?
    Who’s the one that you been leanin’ on
    Ev’ry time that you were down and lonely?
    How many times did you say to yourself that woman is the devil’s tool?
    Somehow you knew that you blew it again and didn’t wanna look like a ravin fool
    But when you need affection
    You go to her with a smilin’ face
    But now she’s got a strange reaction

    For ladies only
    Tired of talkin’ ’till somebody hears
    For ladies only
    Half the world has been built upon their tears

    If you’ve been contemplatin’ just what you’re doin’ wrong
    Then you will be a witness to the rumble goin’ on
    You fight it hard to tell apart the truth from the jive
    They’ve got a right to say it wrong if freedom’s to survive
    Now if you don’t believe your own reflection
    Just take a look at all your smooth talkin’ friends
    I’m sure you’ll make the right connection

    Chorus

    I’ll give you my donation to help the cause along
    I’ll make my contribution ’till the fight has been won
    But when my bedroom closes one thing remains
    Man, woman, hog or dog, I’m callin’ the plays
    And if you find the need to raise objections
    Don’t talk to me ’bout your wasted time
    You know you made your own selections

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  97. on January 30, 2009 at 9:13 pm David Alexander

    For fun, would you venture to describe a plausible Alpha version of David Alexander?

    The alpha DA would be meaner, more hostile to whites, less concerned about others want, less concerned about learning the viewpoints of others, less concerned giving to charity, and sadly, less interest in the nephews and niece. I suspect that I would be misogynistic with no female friends, and that I’d probably engage with fights with other men.

    I would also add that given my impulsive tendencies, as an alpha with the ability to attract women, I would end up knocking up some girl at some point. Hell, even beta me managed to have condomless sex…

    A version of DA five years from now is OK.

    In theory, five years from now, I could see myself working for a local transit agency in a white collar position or another portion of the local bureaucracy. I’d still live at home paying rent to offset my parent’s high mortgage, and saving money to go on vacation to go ride trains and do my photography. I’d also try and blow money on a decent car, something relatively sporty and decent on gas. I’d be a bit more confident with a college degree and career, but I’d still be somewhat “shattered” due to the fact that I’m essentially years behind my age cohort. Romantically, I’d still be alone, and I’d hope for some degree of female friendship, but even at that age, it maybe unreliable due to a decreasing number of unattached women, and being too old for the young single women.

    Stuff like this shows that you are a guy with a good head on your shoulders.

    That just means that I’m using common sense. One would hope that other people would do the same thing.

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  98. on January 30, 2009 at 9:24 pm Anon2

    “Aquarius — no guy three years younger than you marrying you is Alpha. Unless he’s banging girls on the side and you are supporting his drug habit or whatever. He’s not Alpha.”

    But if a woman thinks a man is alpha, isn’t he? Jesus what do you have against people being happy with their lives? Why do you like to try and make them feel like sh*t for it?

    The only thing I can think of is misery loves company…

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  99. on January 30, 2009 at 9:37 pm epiclolz

    “if #1 knocks her up a few times, does that reduce his betaness?”

    HAHA I’d put my money on high possibility of epic cuckoldry here… as in he’ll get stuck with the bill as the previous commenter said… but they also won’t be his… It is unfortunate that none of his guy/girl friends had an INTERVENTION on his ass… I guess no one ever cared enough to say wtf are you doing…. oh well…. @ #3… screw that I’m sure he knew that b!tch was crazy….. in the first place. Maybe we should designate the WHEN A WOMAN TRIES TO KILL YOU scenario as being VEGA….

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  100. on January 30, 2009 at 9:51 pm Anon2

    “Aquarius — no guy three years younger than you marrying you is Alpha. Unless he’s banging girls on the side and you are supporting his drug habit or whatever. He’s not Alpha.”

    I can’t let this go. This makes me ill. You just encouraged a woman who loves, appreciates and is happy with her man to start seeing him as beta? WTF? Doesn’t this go against the whole reason for this game cult thing youv’ve got going here?

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  101. on January 30, 2009 at 10:00 pm whiskey

    PA —

    A mixture of both, from my recollection. Of course, in the UK there are no rights to be anything BUT a criminal, and the men who were the fathers in divorces or partnerships (rather few got married but some did stay a few years) don’t have much say, and the authorities do tend to favor abusive boyfriends.

    The only masculine behaviors allowed in the UK are criminal ones. Sad to say. Anyone who did take the wood to abusers would be in fact in prison far longer than the abusers (who do a year at most).

    Zarathustra — that is what Dalrymple reports in his extensive career with the National Health Service. Your beef is with him not me. Dalrymple suggests that the men (not married btw) who form a parade in and out of the mother’s bedroom simply beat the sons and molest the daughters as a matter of course, whatever is nearest to them becomes a target (the mothers are beaten regularly as well). The women who take these guys on only lose interest after menopause … something Dalrymple misses in his older, PC-driven or perhaps gallant vision of women. But it’s clear that women actively choose the most violent and testosterone laden men they can. Because they face no social censure or pressure to do so.

    David Alexander — women are quite flexible. Require them to love their beta husbands and they will do so. In fact, it was quite common up to thirty years ago for that to be the case.

    Anon2 — guy is not Alpha. That is to say, he is not the most socially dominant guy in the room. I think that is over-rated. But let’s get realistic. Alpha is not a woman thinks he is Alpha, it is most women. The couple could be happy. But really, a guy three years younger? He’s more like Raymond Chandler, a very non-Alpha kind of guy (with an older, supportive wife). There’s nothing wrong with being Raymond Chandler. But Raymond Chandler was not John Wayne, either.

    I gave my honest opinion, no BS. You want sappy feel good consensus stuff, go to the View.

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  102. on January 30, 2009 at 10:06 pm Sebastian Flyte

    Fascinating thing about the last girl is the occupation – she’s a social care worker. Women in these low class carey-warey occupations, despite their seeming feminine saintliness, seem to be instinctively attracted to bad boy jerks. Nurses especially.

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  103. on January 30, 2009 at 10:07 pm Sebastian Flyte

    or what whiskey said 🙂

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  104. on January 30, 2009 at 10:09 pm Lupo

    “But if a woman thinks a man is alpha, isn’t he?”

    Lol, no. But it is kind of sweet that you think so. Hopefully you continue to think so, even if you are deluded. Personally the world I’d like to live in, women would judge men by the content of their character rather than idiocy like social dominance.

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  105. on January 30, 2009 at 10:12 pm Anonymous

    “Remember boys – if she doesn’t want you when she’s 22, 23, 24, you don’t want her when she’s 30, 32, 34.”

    Unless you’re getting the opportunity to reject the actual women who rejected you ten years earlier, what are you saying? That all women who are single into their 30s deserve to pay for what some chick who rejected you once?

    Assuming that all women had the opportunity to reject hordes of suitors at a young age is a flawed assumption, at best. Assuming further still that they *would* have done so if they *had* had the opportunity? Beyond flawed, straying into “warped world-view” territory.

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  106. on January 30, 2009 at 10:14 pm Anon2

    Whiskey – Where is this “room”? NO ONE is “alpha” wherever he goes. That’s not realistic. And if one is shooting for that they are playing a game that can’t be won.

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  107. on January 30, 2009 at 10:21 pm David Alexander

    Require them to love their beta husbands and they will do so. In fact, it was quite common up to thirty years ago for that to be the case.

    I think you’d be pleasantly surprised. These women didn’t love their beta husbands. They simply accepted their presence as an alternative to starving, living alone, or being committed to an institution or religious life.

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  108. on January 30, 2009 at 10:28 pm Anon2

    Lupo – I wish I could be deluded. That’s why I get mad when others try and destroy someones “delusion” if they are truely happy.

    Haven’t anyone of you been extremely attracted to someone and your friends go “eh they are nothing special”?

    When I’m extremely attracted to someone I’m kinda glad every woman isn’t chasing him. That makes me feel more secure.

    Guys just have confidence and don’t put up with anyone’s disrespect. It really is as simple as that. If a woman doesn’t like you on a basic simple level there is no point…

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  109. on January 30, 2009 at 10:40 pm Anon2

    If I knew some guy I was attracted was reading about how to be a PUA I would not only be turned off, I would be creeped out. So guys, like Fight Club, I’d keep it very secret. 🙂

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  110. on January 30, 2009 at 10:44 pm PA

    If I knew some guy I was attracted was reading about how to be a PUA I would not only be turned off, I would be creeped out.

    And yet guys don’t get “creeped out” by girls reading about how to best accentuate their cleavage or wear the right color eyeliner.

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  111. on January 30, 2009 at 10:46 pm Anon2

    truly

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  112. on January 30, 2009 at 10:46 pm David Alexander

    And yet guys don’t get “creeped out” by girls reading about how to best accentuate their cleavage or wear the right color eyeliner.

    While eyeliner is great, accentuating cleavage is a massive fraud, and sadly a waste of time. When will the A and B cup women just go away and leave men alone?

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  113. on January 30, 2009 at 10:50 pm Anon2

    “And yet guys don’t get “creeped out” by girls reading about how to best accentuate their cleavage or wear the right color eyeliner.”

    No the male equivalent to that example would be a man reading Men’s Health or GQ.

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  114. on January 30, 2009 at 10:51 pm PA

    Flat, A-Cup, and B-Cup is the sexiest. Nothing is more feminine than a small breast with unbelievable erogeneous sensation. So many nerve-endings per square inch. These girls are often shy aboth the smallness of their boobies, which adds to their sexiness.

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  115. on January 30, 2009 at 10:52 pm Anon2

    “When will the A and B cup women just go away and leave men alone?”

    Ok bye-bye! 😉

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  116. on January 30, 2009 at 11:03 pm Racer X

    Check out this site to see what women really think of their beloved spouses. There a few complimentary ones, but most are pretty revealing about the wonderful world of matrimony.

    http://truewifeconfessions.blogspot.com/

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  117. on January 30, 2009 at 11:06 pm Comment_Number_One

    What did it for me is that number 1 is rich.(look at the wedding)

    Couldn’t he have just let some Gold-Digger bag him for christsake?

    It took willfull, hard, adoring-eye stupidity for him to fend off the ‘whores’ who wanted him for his money, so he could get The Whore who doesn’t even want him at all.

    He was a complete idiot, but also WILLFULL in his stupidity. Had he been slightly less willfull, he could have married(ie been manipulated into marrying) years earlier a steely-eyed Gold-Digger, who would at least keep him in line and manage his household reasonably well.

    Instead, he has a crazed slut.

    It’s the DETERMINATION that puts him over the edge.

    That said, Number 3 did try to kill Beta-man so that’s pretty over the top. If I thought only Beta stuff was going on, then I’d agree with the majority of voters… but I agree with others that have said the people in Number 3 are also more than a little crazy.

    Number 2 filed a lawsuit, so he has ascended from the lowest levels of Beta-tude.

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  118. on January 30, 2009 at 11:06 pm Anon2

    “Flat, A-Cup, and B-Cup is the sexiest. Nothing is more feminine than a small breast with unbelievable erogeneous sensation. So many nerve-endings per square inch. These girls are often shy aboth the smallness of their boobies, which adds to their sexiness.”

    Assuming that is said in all sincerity (impossible to tell I know now) THAT is exactly the type of things women like to hear. WOW. Very nice post!

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  119. on January 30, 2009 at 11:08 pm PA

    100% sincere. David can confirm that I’ve sang the praises of petite women many times in the past.

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  120. on January 30, 2009 at 11:14 pm Anon2

    I’d stay and chat PA but this place in like a black hole.

    I want to get out of here before someone attacks or insults me.

    Nite-nite!

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  121. on January 30, 2009 at 11:34 pm Tood

    #3, no question. She tried to get him KILLED. I am sure every family member he has has told him that he is nuts to want to forgive her.

    #2 can happen to a lot of people, when the man thinks that the mother of his children is still genuine. Plus, he has the guts to ask for compensation (he won’t get it, though).

    #1 is pretty standard, so is not worthy of a prize. I am not sure that he would have waited around if he found someone else in the meantime.

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  122. on January 30, 2009 at 11:35 pm Comment_One_Note

    whiskey said:

    Anon2 — guy is not Alpha. That is to say, he is not the most socially dominant guy in the room. I think that is over-rated. But let’s get realistic. Alpha is not a woman thinks he is Alpha, it is most women. The couple could be happy. But really, a guy three years younger? He’s more like Raymond Chandler, a very non-Alpha kind of guy (with an older, supportive wife). There’s nothing wrong with being Raymond Chandler. But Raymond Chandler was not John Wayne, either.

    General principles are enough to be right most of the time.

    Now, whiskey, do you know what most of the time MEANS?

    This woman, “sexless for six years”, is an outlier, and you certainly have little basis for applying general principles to her.

    You’ve found a great hammer, but every problem isn’t a nail. Most of them are, yes, but NOT. EVERY. ONE.

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  123. on January 30, 2009 at 11:40 pm Zarathustra

    One of the best of those true wife confessions from Racer X’s link:

    We have been married almost 2 years now. You are perfect. You make me
    lunch for work, you bake me cookies, you wash every dish in the house
    without complaining. You do anything I ask at the snap of a finger, and
    you know what, its annoying! Some days I wish you’d just act like a man
    and do manly things. It is not a turn on seeing you in the kitchen with
    an apron on. I ask if you would like to maybe spice up our sex life
    with a threesome, girl of course, and you say no! You don’t watch
    sports or scratch yourself, you hate video games and always tell me that
    I am the most beautiful wonderful girl alive. You like cleaning toilets
    and setting out potpourri. Most people question if you are gay.

    Most people think I have it made, but just once I’d love for you to man
    up. I am tired of wearing the pants in our relationship. I would love
    you to go get your hands dirty under the hood of a car, go watch a
    football game, make more money than me, and drink a beer! This isn’t a
    confession, I told you, and you started crying. For once, I’d love to
    just be the woman in this relationship or find a real man who can make
    me feel like one.

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  124. on January 30, 2009 at 11:51 pm Jack

    “Unless you’re getting the opportunity to reject the actual women who rejected you ten years earlier, what are you saying? That all women who are single into their 30s deserve to pay for what some chick who rejected you once?”

    No, my point was about the specific women, not “all” women. Pertaining to the beta in story #1 who listened about his slutty friend fucking guy after guy while disrespecting him and treating him like SHIT. I’m saying there is no way in fucking hell he should marry, or hell even talk to, that woman.

    However, there is a corollary for all women. Women in their 30’s in the major urban centers are likely to be similar and have fucked around in their 20’s. Be very careful about committing to any of these women. They have likely had many sexual partners and are treating you as a beta chump to show off to their parents.

    Story #1 is the best, precisely because it is so common. It’s more instructive. That NYT story should be required reading for every freshman college male. You do not want to end up like that guy. If that slut isn’t painfully fat and ugly by now, she will cheat.

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  125. on January 30, 2009 at 11:52 pm Smiler

    Anon2, Whiskey, Aquarius chick w/tramp stamp (as if anyone cares about your star sign, duh):

    Any guy (regardless of age) who marries a 38yo recycled barskank is a beta, full stop (or possibly an omega… who knows).

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  126. on January 31, 2009 at 12:38 am Marvelous Bastard

    I voted for #1 because the beta behavior is all too typical among young men today. The flawed logic that goes through that beta’s head needs to be refuted often and savagely. The Beta of the year contest would provide a public service not found anywhere else by highlighted different examples of these clingy chumps month in and month out. Hopefully other budding betas see this and learn to avoid this behavior. The ultimate prize for this guy will be served by a lawyer in a few years.

    The second guy is beta, but his story leaves me feeling sorry for all the bad breaks life threw at him, and the crappy life decisions he had to make. I think that because he’s a doctor he felt a duty to help save his wife’s life by giving her a kidney. Should he have known that she was a she-devil just waiting to dump him? Hindsight is 20-20.

    The third case is so extreme that much of our speculation could be flat out wrong. IMO, this scenario seems like a case of a battered spouse, with the wife abusing the husband. Husband abuse is more common than what gets reported. No man wants to report that his wife is abusing him, and the cycle of abuse/reconciliation is intense and impervious to rational thinking. We also don’t know that she wasn’t trying to kill him because he was an uncaring asshole (alpha as defined on this site) instead of being a supplicating beta. His statements after the fact cast him in a beta light, but he may be an alpha on the side, living off of the old witch and not wanting to ruin the gravy train. Either way, #3 is more Jerry Springer and less of a pretty lie.

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  127. on January 31, 2009 at 12:54 am Mike

    @ Anon2

    If I knew some guy I was attracted was reading about how to be a PUA I would not only be turned off, I would be creeped out. So guys, like Fight Club, I’d keep it very secret.

    Why? Seriously, no bullshit. This sentiment seems more common then one would think.

    My sense is that most women enjoy (not sure if that is the right word) the advantage they have over the vast majority of men in social interaction and for some reason they think men should “just be themselves” (whatever the fuck that means). It seems their is some strange resentment towards men who make a deliberate effort to modify themselves from betas to alpha-like behavior.

    I suspect your problem with this lies in the fact that it reverses the typical power structure of the roles and changes who is the chaser versus who is the chasee and gives the man alot more options in the “dating game”. For the overwhelming majority of men, women have the advantage and they know it.

    On a different note, Roissy, if you read this comment (or anyone else) I wonder if you have any specific thoughts on calibration and congruence. These are 2 areas I think I still struggle with. I’m a former beta/AFC type but visually I think I look extremely alpha (6’3″ 250 lb bodybuilder physique). I think I’ve got the body language stuff down (the walk, posture, etc.) but I think I still slip into beta mode from time to time in conversation. I’m actually in a LTR presently but met her soon after discovering the whole PUA thing so I’m not sure I ever internalized everything sufficiently. I’m happy with her, but I don’t ever want to be in the same situation I was in right after my divorce (which led me to the PUA stuff), and I wonder if it would be beneficial to just go out and flirt and practice.

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  128. on January 31, 2009 at 1:22 am art school nerd

    I’ve been reading this blog for a few weeks now, and I’m a bit confused on a couple of things. There’s a lot of complaints about women lying about everything from their sexual histories to well, anything and everything. Yet the past few posts have suggested lying to establish a bond and or get in closer however the person desires to a women. I can’t quite understand how anyone can expect honesty if they themselves are not willing to give it. Is there an explanation for this I’m not grasping? Or is it really just a simple case of hypocrisy?

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  129. on January 31, 2009 at 1:40 am Days of Broken Arrows

    I wonder if Beta #1, David Deckenbaum, will see this and wonder about whether he did the right thing getting married.

    By the way, DC people, Deckenbaum and his lovely bride went to college right in this area, at George Washington. That means he was right near Roissy all the time he was doing his Beta “wooing” of her.

    So close, yet so far…

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  130. on January 31, 2009 at 1:41 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Sorry correction to my above post.

    The guy’s name is David Deckelbaum. Yes, all you Googlers it’s “David Deckelbaum.” Welcome to Roissy.

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  131. on January 31, 2009 at 3:25 am expats get the hotties

    I vote for #5, because I control the frame.

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  132. on January 31, 2009 at 3:30 am Zarathustra

    By the way, DC people, Deckenbaum and his lovely bride went to college right in this area, at George Washington. That means he was right near Roissy all the time he was doing his Beta “wooing” of her.

    Just a little more than a mile away, in fact. IIRC from Adams Morgan you just go down 16th until you get to K Street, make a right and you’re practically at GWU.

    BTW, our lucky blushing groom was/is a big Hillary and Obama supporter, as per Newsmeat’s political campaign donor records. Make of that what you will.

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  133. on January 31, 2009 at 3:36 am expats get the hotties

    Actually, voting is for pussies.

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  134. on January 31, 2009 at 4:35 am ScotchFiend

    @Days of Broken Arrows

    By the way, DC people, Deckenbaum and his lovely bride went to college right in this area, at George Washington. That means he was right near Roissy all the time he was doing his Beta “wooing” of her.

    Maybe she’s one of Roissy’s pump-and-dumps!

    And David had to console
    After she got the pole!

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  135. on January 31, 2009 at 4:49 am sara I

    Roissy you’re going to LOVE this!!!

    http://www.amazon.com/Law-Attraction-Directly-Source-Leading/dp/1401923410

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  136. on January 31, 2009 at 7:14 am Grim

    “sara I

    FOR LADIES ONLY ”

    Sara’s a lady? I thought she was a fat ho. Shit, I don’t can’t name a single women I know a lady. They tossed that shit out with the 70s.

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  137. on January 31, 2009 at 8:10 am YA

    The third story is not complete:
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/12/15/husband-who-stood-by-wife-who-hired-hitman-to-kill-him-dumped-by-letter-from-prison-115875-20971796/

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  138. on January 31, 2009 at 9:06 am ironrailsironweights

    Here’s one candidate for Non-Beta of the Month:

    Brentwood [a ghetto-ish town on Long Island] school authorities say they believe as many as 20 teenage students in the district have had contact – and in some cases sexual relations – with a 36-year-old convicted sex offender who has HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
    School officials said Friday that some teens came forward themselves to acknowledge contact with Robert Musmacker of Oceanside after hearing of his arrest last month. Students reportedly in contact with Musmacker include 15 to 20 teens, males and females, at the district’s secondary schools, those officials said.
    State Police said Friday an investigation of Musmacker’s actions are under way but don’t yet know how many youths may be involved.
    Musmacker, whose six-year prison term for first-degree sodomy ended in 1998, was arrested again Dec. 28 in West Babylon, after a state trooper stopped him for speeding and noticed that his belt buckle was undone and that he had a 16-year-old male passenger in his car. Musmacker is charged with reckless endangerment, committing a criminal sex act, endangering the welfare of a child and several traffic violations.

    Peter

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  139. on January 31, 2009 at 10:49 am Affe

    “I vote for #5, because I control the frame.”

    (spits coffee) Well played, sir.

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  140. on January 31, 2009 at 10:54 am Rain And

    There is no excuse for not electing #3. Roissy doesn’t leave a link, but when you read up on the story, it becomes even more undeniable.

    ..Mr Kenealy, 42, is standing by his wife – who he still believes is innocent. He went to court with her every day along with her two sons from a previous marriage, and wept when the Old Bailey jury delivered the verdict.”

    ..In August 2006, [Mrs] Kenealy started a relationship with 31-year-old Waite, who lived next door with his pregnant wife Marie. They exchanged sexually-explicit text messages and met for drinks in a local pub.

    But a few weeks into the relationship, Kenealy asked Waite if he could arrange to have her husband killed.

    ..To help guide the hitman, Kenealy wrote down details of her husband’s job at Alpha Catering at Gatwick Airport and listed the bookmakers he visited.

    She described him as “6ft with an ugly big nose”.

    After failing to get further loans, she contacted her brother, Richard Wharton, asking for money, saying: “I want to have Tim done over. I hate him.”….. “Tim loved me too much. He smothered me.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-558222/Woman-took-4-500-home-improvement-loan-pay-hitman-kill-husband.html

    Hah! Alpha Catering.

    His wife cheated on him for three years with the scumbag, pretend gangster next door, and then tried to have him killed because he was such a faggot beta. Note, we’ve already established here that the remorseless desire to punish and kill betas is an entirely ordinary female instinct. Don’t just let her off the hook here for “mental illness”. That’s bullshit.

    This guy isn’t “mentally ill” either. He’s just occupies an extreme place on the bitch bell curve. He shouldn’t lose the contest for being too good an example.

    Listen to this nancy yammer and tell me how he doesn’t deserve to win this contest over the comparatively tame Jew beta:

    Mr Kenealy, a 51-year-old catering worker, did not comment as he left the court today, but he said recently that he would remain faithful to his wife. “I still love Zoe dearly. She’s the love of my life and I want to be with her for ever.”

    He told the Sunday Mirror: “When Zoe was arrested I was heartbroken, but I never stopped loving her. When I exchanged wedding vows with her I meant every word, for richer for poorer, till death do us part, but little did I know those words would come back to haunt me and land the love of my life in jail.’

    And he said that they became closer while she was on bail.

    He added: ‘She said she couldn’t understand how I could love her after what she’d done. I told her I wouldn’t give up on her, and in those months waiting for the police action we became closer than we had been for years.

    “Ironically, it was like we were back to normal – we were soul-mates again.”

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4105176.ece

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  141. on January 31, 2009 at 10:55 am PA

    What Beta # 2 and 3 have in common is that they had a lot of personal investment in their marriages, in the sense of time put in and children, and also presumably better days with their wives in the past. At least in their own perception.

    So in a way it’s understandable that they couldn’t let go of their marriages. They were living in a massive denial. It’s a human weakness and can happen to the best of us.

    Any guy in their situation would be susceptible to this kind of a denial. It must be hard as fuck to face up to reality that one’s wife no longer wants to be with him.

    The kidney guy eventually opened his eyes to the reality that his marriage is dead, but the hitman guy never did.

    But here is a good way to let go of a woman who doesn’t want you, even if it’s hard because you still “care” about her. Just keep this frame of mind:

    All women are interchangeable pieces of meat (bear with me; this is shock therapy for guys obsessed with women who don’t want them) As such, being one of those interchangeable pieces of meat, what the hell makes her so special? Why get attached to one can of macaroni when there are fifteen others like ot on the same shelf? What the fuck for. How is this one special, and the other one not?

    Here is the answer: the only thing that makes a woman special is if she has feelings for you and she lives and breathes to make you happy. But once those feelings in her disappear and she no longer loves you, she’s no longer special. She becomes demoted to all the other interchangeable women.

    And at that point, what’s the sense in harboring feelings for any one particular creature that’s intrechangeable with so many others of her kind?

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  142. on January 31, 2009 at 11:07 am Comment_Repeating


    Anon2, Whiskey, Aquarius chick w/tramp stamp (as if anyone cares about your star sign, duh):

    Any guy (regardless of age) who marries a 38yo recycled barskank is a beta, full stop (or possibly an omega… who knows).

    Okay, almost every woman thinks she is super-special and different from other women while being absolutely determined to imitiate every other woman, and most people NEVER change their behaviours.

    So what I’m about to say almost never applies. But the Aquarius girl did go ‘sexless’ for six years… if she isn’t lying, that’s fairly extreme for a woman who was a prior ‘bad-boy’ girl. It means she is an outlier.

    It is entirely possible for an outlier to net another outlier who doesn’t go ‘young and fertile’ all the time. Take for example the Lurker person. He is obviously completely fed up with disloyal, crazy chick behaviour. It’s entirely possible an older female could push the right buttons and get him. Is it LIKELY? NO. Is it possible? YES.

    Of course, outliers are rare, so don’t every woman reading this think your a special little princess, you aren’t. Maybe 1 in 100 people are outliers of her magnitude… which makes the general principle very sound. But not certain.

    Every problem isn’t a nail.

    Re-read Wiskey’s endless comments about how “game can’t work if every man does it” because it will result in “a race to the bottom”.

    Does this apply to Kino, to use a completely obvious example?

    There are others, but I think that one will resist mindless objections.

    Every problem isn’t a nail. Every solution isn’t a hammer.

    Just most of them.

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  143. on January 31, 2009 at 11:16 am Comment_Repeating2

    Why does every post with o m e g a go into moderation? It’s annoying.

    Does anyone know of a list of words that send you into moderation? Roissy, could you add a little article on the side with words that send you into moderation?


    Anon2, Whiskey, Aquarius chick w/tramp stamp (as if anyone cares about your star sign, duh):

    Any guy (regardless of age) who marries a 38yo recycled barskank is a beta, full stop (or possibly an o m e g a… who knows).

    Okay, almost every woman thinks she is super-special and different from other women while being absolutely determined to imitiate every other woman, and most people NEVER change their behaviours.

    So what I’m about to say almost never applies. But the Aquarius girl did go ’sexless’ for six years… if she isn’t lying, that’s fairly extreme for a woman who was a prior ‘bad-boy’ girl. It means she is an outlier.

    It is entirely possible for an outlier to net another outlier who doesn’t go ‘young and fertile’ all the time. Take for example the Lurker person. He is obviously completely fed up with disloyal, crazy chick behaviour. It’s entirely possible an older female could push the right buttons and get him. Is it LIKELY? NO. Is it possible? YES.

    Every problem isn’t a nail. Every solution isn’t a hammer.

    Just almost all of them.

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  144. on January 31, 2009 at 11:39 am JVM

    Re. the first beta candidate — the guy’s eventual wife got fat and depressed while suffering from Chron’s disease. As it happens, the most noticeable symptom of Chron’s is near-constant farting.

    Just sayin’.

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  145. on January 31, 2009 at 12:12 pm Dlangly

    I’m a first time poster, and relatively new to reading Rossy’s blog. I have read a fair amount of the archives, and I would have to stay that the above post was the best I have ever read. The life lessons he is talking about are just so important.

    The above post should be mandatory reading for every high school male in the country. If everyone learned from these stories, the world would be infinitely more efficient and productive. Men would realize that it isn’t worth investing more time/resources into women who aren’t that interested.

    The relationship market is just like any other commodities market, and therefore the same economic theories apply. Remember and apply the Bygones Principle. Do not let your sunk costs affect your future decision making.

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  146. on January 31, 2009 at 12:23 pm Rain And

    PA, that is a really powerful point. Not one, I think, powerful enough to dethrone beta #3, but an important distinction definitely worth taking seriously.

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  147. on January 31, 2009 at 12:34 pm Rain And

    And I honestly don’t understand why guy #2 is too much of a beta. Mostly, it seems to be a fairly average guy that got fucked over in an above average way, for reasons mostly not his fault. In part he donated his kidney to save his marriage, but so what? That’s just him being honest, but there were a lot of factors that pushed him to that decision.

    I can’t even say I wouldn’t do the same out of some kind of honor. It goes back to that “coward” thing. Even if your marriage was failing and some guy on the street comes up and starts being threatening to your wife, are you just going to do nothing? Or are you going to defend a person you still have notional manly responsibilities towards?

    I imagine most normal guys would engage the threat. But this situation could be far more threatening to your life than giving a kidney.

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  148. on January 31, 2009 at 12:37 pm gig

    #1 can be resumed as: if you are a high IQ guy with perspectives of a high income after college, you can marry any slut you want, just wait until she ages out of bad boys’ scope. Given the widespread slutiness among girls and betaness among boys, the only special thing about it is the high IQ of the husband, which allowed him to work in UBS. I can’t believe people are voting this as the beta of the year! It is like asking: which is more newsworthy, “dog bites man” or “man bites dog” and people voted the first as more newsworthy

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  149. on January 31, 2009 at 12:55 pm Thursday

    PA:

    Small, yet round breasts can be wonderful. A good example would be Aurelie Claudel or Ana Claudia Michels. See here. But flat chests or nubs really aren’t that attractive. However, most men, me included, like some full on busty goodness, like Gisele Bundchen, Tyra Banks, or the young Heidi Klum.

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  150. on January 31, 2009 at 12:55 pm Ryder

    PA:
    “Here is the answer: the only thing that makes a woman special is if she has feelings for you and she lives and breathes to make you happy. But once those feelings in her disappear and she no longer loves you, she’s no longer special. She becomes demoted to all the other interchangeable women.”

    Bingo. That’s it in a nutshell. It seems so simple, yet guys go through years of misery, or even wreck their lives, for failure to understand this basic point.

    I guess I should say that it is important not merely to understand, but to internalize it. A guy should get to the point where flaky, selfish, or inconsiderate behavior completely turns him off instead of making him want to try harder. Once a guy has reached that level, he’s in pretty good shape for the world of dating and mating. In an imperfect world, this is probably about as close to becoming bulletproof as it’s going to get.

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  151. on January 31, 2009 at 12:57 pm Affe

    “As it happens, the most noticeable symptom of Chron’s is near-constant farting. ”

    Like autumn leaves skittering across a driveway, flakes of dry, crusty alpha cum blew out in the steady breeze from her ass. Her boyfag knelt there, inhaling deeply, considering himself the luckiest douche alive.

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  152. on January 31, 2009 at 1:05 pm PA

    But flat chests or nubs really aren’t that attractive.

    Thursday, I admit that my taste may be unusual here, but I do find women with a flat chest incredibly sexy. That’s of course assuming they are healthy and normal in terms of hormone levels, their nipples are appropriately small, that they are adult, and have all other normal signs of feminine shapeliness such as nice hips, ass, legs, etc.

    But the sweet little A-cups that you linked to are ideal.

    More than a C-cup is a liability in my eyes, be it with real women or with porn.

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  153. on January 31, 2009 at 1:14 pm Jack

    Actually, I am going to give David Deckelbaum a little credit. After reading the story again, it appears that he at least was with her during part of college. I had been under the impression that she was fucking around through ALL of college, but in fact at least Deckelbaum was getting some at some point, making him less of a beta. She must have had SOME attraction to him.

    In addition, he did DUMP her himself at one point. And hurt her doing so (thankfully). He apologizes for it (which he shouldn’t) but he still did it. So while she started out treating him like crap, he at least had SOME revenge. Mr. Deckelbaum may be learning.

    Btw Roissy if you have had any contact with Ms. Lichtman it might be wise to admit so…

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  154. on January 31, 2009 at 1:26 pm Anonymous

    No, my point was about the specific women, not “all” women. Pertaining to the beta in story #1 who listened about his slutty friend fucking guy after guy while disrespecting him and treating him like SHIT. I’m saying there is no way in fucking hell he should marry, or hell even talk to, that woman.

    Absolutely agree with this.

    However, there is a corollary for all women. Women in their 30’s in the major urban centers are likely to be similar and have fucked around in their 20’s. Be very careful about committing to any of these women.

    Be very careful about making this assumption, because it’s a big one. If you’re going to assume the worst, you’re poisoning your own well before you even drink.

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  155. on January 31, 2009 at 1:27 pm Book of Dooderonomy

    What do I win if my BOTM candidate beats the others?

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  156. on January 31, 2009 at 1:39 pm Eurosabra

    I would say that having someone actively trying to kill you, especially in a wealthy country largely devoid of political violence, not someplace you run the risk of being “collateral damage” in one of your community’s disputes, is a demonstration of ultimate hatred. She wanted to destroy the man and his future prospects utterly, as some form of punishment for “smothering her.” In Britain one could conceivably arrange a consensual no-contact divorce settlement, where after settling their affairs both parties would effectively be “dead to each other.” Instead she chose to try to have him killed. She seems the flip side of the “If I can’t have you, no one can” psycho, but decreeing “because we had a bad relationship, you don’t deserve to live.”

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  157. on January 31, 2009 at 2:13 pm 1010011010

    #3 got my vote because the wife was trying to fucking KILL him and he still defended her.

    It’s tempting to vote #1 because on some level we can relate to him – it’s common betatude on a slutty one-itis taken to the extreme.

    #2 is disqualified because he finally saw the light.

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  158. on January 31, 2009 at 2:21 pm Ryder

    PA:
    “Here is the answer: the only thing that makes a woman special is if she has feelings for you and she lives and breathes to make you happy. But once those feelings in her disappear and she no longer loves you, she’s no longer special. She becomes demoted to all the other interchangeable women.”

    Bingo. That’s it in a nutshell. Many a man could save himself a world of hurt by appreciating this point.

    Really, a guy needs to not only understand this, but to internalize it as well. When he reaches the point where flaky, selfish or inconsiderate behavior is a genuine turnoff, instead of making him *try harder*, then he will be in pretty good shape for the world of dating and mating. If he doesn’t understand and/or can’t internalize this, he’s like a lamb heading for the slaughter.

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  159. on January 31, 2009 at 2:29 pm Amana Lee

    Hmm…I have to think that these men have to take some responsibility for these women taking advantage of them. We are all reponsible for our actions AND how others treat us. I think both parties have some serious issues . Stop being the victim and do something! Same to women who fnd themselves in thes situations.

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  160. on January 31, 2009 at 2:37 pm Colin Bowel

    Why do people keep saying this is beta of the year? It says Beta of the Month at the top of the fucking page and on the fucking poll. You would think these pretend-Alpha-but-actually-Linux nerds who can recite strings of commands from memory would be paying closer attention to shit on their screens.

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  161. on January 31, 2009 at 2:46 pm Cannon's Canon

    These were excrutiating to read. I was already familiar with #2 from the media and this blog, and a few days after the fact my mother thought to mention it to me as well. I think the story gained steam because of the man’s token countersuit of the market value of a kidney. His feeble protest earns him a single faint 5pm shadow of an alpha stripe and disqualifies him from BOTM honors.

    #3 is too fantastic to take seriously. I have more faith in the human spirit than to believe this man’s rationalization was not inspired by clinical madness. With mental illness in the picture, I voted for story #1, which made me sick to my stomach. As disgusting as it was to read, it was so remarkably commonplace that it could really be the ‘neighbors next door’ from Anytown, USA. The canonization of a NYT article really galvinized the betatude for me. One month into the year, it’s my frontrunner to take year-end honors. I hope it does not get usurped, because I may not survive 22 more nauseating entries.

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  162. on January 31, 2009 at 3:14 pm Chuck

    Not trying to divert any of Roissy’s traffic, but I’ve written about Game’s insufficiencies a while back here. They get to the heart of whiskey’s “Race to the bottom”:

    http://chuckross.blogspot.com/2009/01/game-is-ponzi-scheme.html

    http://chuckross.blogspot.com/2009/01/game-is-ponzi-scheme-part-2.html

    http://chuckross.blogspot.com/2009/01/game-is-ponzi-scheme-pt-3.html

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  163. on January 31, 2009 at 3:38 pm Colin Bowel

    Hey Chuck, my computer is going to be obsolete at some point in the future, so I guess I should stop using it right now, right?

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  164. on January 31, 2009 at 3:45 pm Anonymous

    Why do people keep saying this is beta of the year?

    the original thread that people used to submit nominees was the “Beta of the Year Contest Submissions” page:
    http://roissy.wordpress.com/beta-of-the-year-contest-submissions/

    So when people saw a winner was announced, they probably just skimmed and didn’t notice it was now changed to “Beta of the Month” and assumed the winner was Beta of the Year since that was the title they were submitting nominees for.

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  165. on January 31, 2009 at 3:50 pm gig

    WHiskey’s assumption that every man can learn game is patently wrong. Take the US. You have several blogs discussing it, bestseller books published, conferences around the country, and still the american readers (I checked in alexa, they are 50%) can not stop complaining about the widespread betaness in the US. david Alexander is a great example of this.

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  166. on January 31, 2009 at 4:36 pm Glengarry Glenpoon

    Wow, truly nauseating. #2 is a fool, but it’s hard to choose between #1 and #3. Okay, #3 is arguably omega, and the wife insane … but the sheer grit in doing what it takes to be the most pitiful fucking example, debasing himself that extra mile, gives him my vote.

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  167. on January 31, 2009 at 4:42 pm Glengarry Glenpoon

    And here is Theodore Dalrymple:

    … My patient was not just a victim of her mother, however: she had knowingly borne children of men of whom no good could be expected. She knew perfectly well the consequences and the meaning of what she was doing, as her reaction to something that I said to her—and say to hundreds of women patients in a similar situation—proved: next time you are thinking of going out with a man, bring him to me for my inspection, and I’ll tell you if you can go out with him.

    This never fails to make the most wretched, the most “depressed” of women smile broadly or laugh heartily. They know exactly what I mean, and I need not spell it out further. They know that I mean that most of the men they have chosen have their evil written all over them, sometimes quite literally in the form of tattoos, saying “FUCK OFF” or “MAD DOG.” And they understand that if I can spot the evil instantly, because they know what I would look for, so can they—and therefore they are in large part responsible for their own downfall at the hands of evil men.

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_oh_to_be.html

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  168. on January 31, 2009 at 4:47 pm Chuck

    Colin:

    Not a good analogy. Your computer and other computers don’t respond and adapt to your usage of them. Each computer, in and of itself, is static. Human nature and Game is a dynamic process.

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  169. on January 31, 2009 at 4:49 pm aliasclio

    You know who’s a beta? The 31-year-old married man who had the affair with the older woman (I’m assuming she’s older if her husband is 42), and arranged to help her kill her husband for no better reason than that he was sexually interested in her. That’s a beta who is ruled by women; probably a born mama’s boy. The poor sap of a husband at least had the excuse of being married to her – and I agree with the posters who say that it must be hard to grasp that your wife wanted to kill you. Easier to believe it was just an aberration, perhaps the result of a mental illness. That way you don’t have to reassess your whole life and marriage.

    Clio

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  170. on January 31, 2009 at 5:16 pm Lupo

    I’d like to echo everyone else’s comments on Theodore Dalrymple (also known as Anthony Daniels). He’s the foremost chronicler of the decline of Western Civilization that we have.

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  171. on January 31, 2009 at 5:21 pm Ryder

    Gig:
    “WHiskey’s assumption that every man can learn game is patently wrong.”

    Whiskey can of course clarify, but I don’t think the point is that every man can learn game so much as that in a healthier culture not nearly as much game is needed. Here is a quote by whiskey:

    “It’s not as if their fathers (if any are around) teach them how to deal with women, because that stuff was not needed back in their day.”

    This is spot on. It’s amazing how much things changed over the course of a couple of decades. The gulf between my own experience and that of my father is enormous. This one friend of mine that I hit the bars with, a Catholic mick from Philly, talked about how his dad kept advising him that he should instead go to Young Catholics, or something like that. (I’m not Catholic, but whatever).

    Apparently, “everybody” (young singles, anyway, and not just the particularly religious) in pa’s old Philly neighborhood would go to these Catholic sponsored dances each week, and that’s how he met his wife. There was a pretty girl in the neighborhood? She’d be there each weekend. Most girls would be there.

    These dances were no doubt fun for a lot of people, but the anonymous modern club scene they were not. Today, the daughters and grandaughters of those women from the Catholic dances of yesteryear are giving head to near strangers in bathroom stalls. Pa wouldn’t recognize the dating and mating scene today, he’s completely out of touch. He grew up in a different world, one that didn’t require a lot of game. The Catholics may still have dances on Friday nights, I don’t know. But chances are most girls aren’t going to be there.

    In a more orderly environment and a healthier culture, game would not be nearly so important. There would be few if any pump and dumps in the typical person’s life, and therefore the whole dynamic changes. The alphas would still get the best women, of course, but they would not be able to guzzle more than their *fair share.* Instead, you’d just have a standard sorting process where people pair off in a more or less orderly manner.

    Also, since the typical female will not experience a large number of pump and dumps (if any at all), she will more easily pair bond with a non-alpha husband- which of course is the vast majority of men. Basically, all (or almost all) of the girls get kissed, and same thing for the guys. Contrast this with our current situation, which sets up most people to fail.

    Our modern, bar centered pick up culture is more of a historical anomaly than anything else. Most people throughout the ages faced a very different set of experiences. Two of the biggest differences are that they didn’t have nearly as much de facto anonymity (everybody knew everybody in the hunter gatherer group, or the village, or dad’s mick neighborhood), and there were strong social sanctions against pumping and dumping. Within these and a few other contraints, the sorting took place. Not all that much room for game, certainly not like today. Here is the distilled version: in an environment of pumping and dumping, you need game. In an environment that discourages pumping and dumping, you need it much less.

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  172. on January 31, 2009 at 5:35 pm Johnny_Marks

    “She loves the game, not you. I’d rather she love me for who I am as a person, but then I believe in soulmates and the idea that your best friend is your wife/lifepartner.”

    David Alexander has got to be the biggest douche on this board.

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  173. on January 31, 2009 at 5:37 pm Welmer

    I voted #3. Number one may eventually come around and put up a fight (he’s still young presumably). Number two is currently putting up a fight (he wants the kidney back, hehe), but #3 will probably never learn.

    That he still can’t let go after she tried to have him killed is not only contemptible; it is highly offensive as well. What does this say to women? That they have a license to commit any crime they want is what it says. In the best interest of society, guys like that should be prosecuted for obstructing justice.

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  174. on January 31, 2009 at 5:38 pm epiclolz

    “I’ve been reading this blog for a few weeks now, and I’m a bit confused on a couple of things. There’s a lot of complaints about women lying about everything from their sexual histories to well, anything and everything. Yet the past few posts have suggested lying to establish a bond and or get in closer however the person desires to a women. I can’t quite understand how anyone can expect honesty if they themselves are not willing to give it. Is there an explanation for this I’m not grasping? Or is it really just a simple case of hypocrisy?”

    I don’t know if most of use pass value judgments on behavior, we are just making some observations about the human condition. So, I think that if you frame this discourse as how to spot a deer and how to avoid bears…. then it may make a bit more sense. There is a massive asymmetry into assuming that people are honest, in that, if you are wrong, the impact of the downside is far more severe for being wrong. The only thing you can assume is that people will be people, in all our ridiculous glory. I mean if you notice, just like the sluts argument, no one ever said they were intrinsically bad. It’s just that if you are trying to buy lemonade, you might want to make sure you are not getting orange juice…. although orange juice tastes pretty damn good..

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  175. on January 31, 2009 at 5:46 pm epiclolz

    @racer X

    this one is a gem i think
    ——————————————————————
    “Confession #2798

    We have been married almost 2 years now. You are perfect. You make me lunch for work, you bake me cookies, you wash every dish in the house without complaining. You do anything I ask at the snap of a finger, and you know what, its annoying! Some days I wish you’d just act like a man
    and do manly things. It is not a turn on seeing you in the kitchen withan apron on. I ask if you would like to maybe spice up our sex life with a threesome, girl of course, and you say no! You don’t watch sports or scratch yourself, you hate video games and always tell me that I am the most beautiful wonderful girl alive. You like cleaning toilets
    and setting out potpourri. Most people question if you are gay.

    Most people think I have it made, but just once I’d love for you to man up. I am tired of wearing the pants in our relationship. I would love you to go get your hands dirty under the hood of a car, go watch a football game, make more money than me, and drink a beer! This isn’t a
    confession, I told you, and you started crying. For once, I’d love to just be the woman in this relationship or find a real man who can make me feel like one.”
    ——————————————————————

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  176. on January 31, 2009 at 5:55 pm Budrick

    [i]Johnny_Marks

    “She loves the game, not you. I’d rather she love me for who I am as a person, but then I believe in soulmates and the idea that your best friend is your wife/lifepartner.”

    David Alexander has got to be the biggest douche on this board.[/i]

    While I won’t disagree with you on David Alexander’s douchiness, he has a lot of STIFF competition from the other mutants who infest this website, not realizing they are being taken advantage of by the site owner.

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  177. on January 31, 2009 at 5:56 pm superuser

    Re: Confession #2798

    Feminism – the ultimate shit test.

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  178. on January 31, 2009 at 5:59 pm Budrick

    [I]ee[/I]

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  179. on January 31, 2009 at 6:01 pm art school nerd

    epiclolz

    Thank you for replying, looking at it that way does make more sense. Now to go find a good, honest lemonade stand, ha.

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  180. on January 31, 2009 at 6:25 pm chic noir

    Budrick
    [I]ee[/I]

    no “”

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  181. on January 31, 2009 at 6:40 pm whiskey

    Anon2 — Alpha is defined as being the most socially dominant person in the social group. So, barring say Russell Brand, the husband of the Acquarius poster is either the most socially dominant man in their mutual circle, or he is not.

    My guess, he is not, otherwise he would have married a woman ten years younger with an option of a family. The self-confessed age of the poster (38) precludes kids absent expensive and high-risk fertility treatments. The fertility treatments poor Elizabeth Edwards (a woman I truly pity) took are believed to have contribute to her breast cancer, in addition having a first child before 30 radically reduces the chances of breast cancer, having kids over age 35 radically increases the chances, and poses significant risks to both child and mother.

    Maybe the poster is a genetic outlier, a stunning beauty on the order of Kim Basinger, who outshines the beauty of women ten years younger. But her statement that her husband is a “Alpha” male who is dominant and can pull any woman he wants is likely false. Given that the likelihood of her being an extreme outlier in feminine beauty is rather low. It seems low probability she is Kim Basinger or Geena Davis (women who had significantly younger husbands).

    You must be confused about this blog. It’s not the View. The purpose is not to make people “happy” which boils down to female consensus and validation of typically stupid choices. This place exists to explode the stupid lies that (typically) men tell themselves to please women. The poster has some deluded notion that older women can regularly land younger Alpha men and get total commitment. Reality says this is about as realistic as the plotline from Pretty Woman.

    Comment: the original poster maintained that her experience meant that most women can pull an Alpha YOUNGER than themselves in their late thirties. The likelihood of that being true is so small I think my original comment stands. An Alpha has options, including significantly younger women who give the option for family. An Alpha in his fifties I’d believe, not a man three years younger than the woman. After all, who did Warren Beatty marry, and WHEN did he marry?

    Anonymous — Beta Candidate #1 did indeed pursue the woman who rejected him when he was younger, better looking, and she had more suitors who were more testosterone driven, Alpha, dominant, etc. Therefore the guy is properly Beta of the Month, because he has proof that the woman does not in fact love him and cannot love him, choosing him above other men. He’s merely the guy she’s settling for, after she became fat and old and unwanted by other men. He knows it too.

    What Ryder said. He says it better than me.

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  182. on January 31, 2009 at 6:45 pm Welmer

    epiclolz

    “Most people think I have it made, but just once I’d love for you to man up. I am tired of wearing the pants in our relationship. I would love you to go get your hands dirty under the hood of a car, go watch a football game, make more money than me, and drink a beer! This isn’t a
    confession, I told you, and you started crying. For once, I’d love to just be the woman in this relationship or find a real man who can make me feel like one.”

    This is totally transparent because of that one request. American women today, if they aren’t getting paid to be a wife, will launch all sorts of slander against their husbands.

    Given my own experience, a wife isn’t worth a dime. If you are a married man and she starts in like this, just buy yourself some time however you can in order to plan the cleanest possible getaway.

    Women demand careers, equal pay, more housework from the husband, etc., and then still expect to be treated like a princess. Hah! Forget it!

    I tell you men out there: it is far easier to take care of yourself than it is to indulge a spoiled wife you’d rather not get in bed with anyway.

    I’ve been on some college campuses recently, and you’d be blown away by how fat, rude and offensive young women are today. I literally cringe when I walk by them sometimes as they are bellowing with raucous laughter and exposing their enormous, corn-syrup-fattened thighs beneath overly tight shorts that are sucked up into a ravenous crevice in front.

    It is far, far worse than it was a mere fifteen years ago (who knows where it will end?). Poor little college boys today stuck with these heifers.

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  183. on January 31, 2009 at 6:45 pm kthulah

    Welmer says, “What does this say to women? That they have a license to commit any crime they want is what it says.”

    The unfortunate truth is that this is exactly how life is. The woman’s character is irrelevant. What matters is that she is the hottest and most socially convenient woman he can get.

    Look around, and you can see every day, women treating guys like crap because they can, and men treating women like crap because they can. These things are never one sided, and this is why it’s a good thing someone at least questions the intentions of the supposed victims in this.

    Who is really the monster? The dragon, or the townspeople who sacrifice their virgins to the dragon?

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  184. on January 31, 2009 at 6:49 pm Tupac Chopra

    JVM:

    Re. the first beta candidate — the guy’s eventual wife got fat and depressed while suffering from Chron’s disease. As it happens, the most noticeable symptom of Chron’s is near-constant farting.

    Just sayin’.

    I lol’ed

    Clio:

    You know who’s a beta? The 31-year-old married man who had the affair with the older woman (I’m assuming she’s older if her husband is 42), and arranged to help her kill her husband for no better reason than that he was sexually interested in her. That’s a beta who is ruled by women; probably a born mama’s boy.

    Clio – *I* would kill for you.

    Patrick?

    D?

    Just say the word.

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  185. on January 31, 2009 at 7:01 pm Rain And

    “You know who’s a beta? The 31-year-old married man who had the affair with the older woman (I’m assuming she’s older if her husband is 42), and arranged to help her kill her husband for no better reason than that he was sexually interested in her.”

    No, the articles seem to indicate he was just pulling a con on her. Pretending he was a big-shot gangster, when he was just a bored douche-bag, and trying to cheat her out of her money without actually knowing any assassins.

    ” sometimes quite literally in the form of tattoos, saying “FUCK OFF””

    I must get this tattoo immediately.

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  186. on January 31, 2009 at 7:02 pm PA

    You know who’s a beta? The 31-year-old married man who had the affair with the older woman … and arranged to help her kill her husband for no better reason than that he was sexually interested in her. That’s a beta who is ruled by women; probably a born mama’s boy.

    Agreed. A complete tool.

    I read Dan Savage’s sex column in the City Paper weekly on my Thursday train rides home. A few month ago he had a letter from a young fool who was shagging a married older woman. This kid went on to tell Dan Savage (and thus the whole world, including one or two FBI agents who also may be readig the paper) that he’s “seriously thinking” of offing that woman’s husband, at her request. Because she feels “smothered” with him. He tossed out the word “abuser” as well.

    Savage’s reply was pretty good. He told this moron that he better pray that nothing happens to that woman’s husband. Because law enforcement willl be visiting him.

    He also gave him a major dressing-down (I know, that’s an unfortunate double entendre when talking about Savage) for being a complete Beta, though he didn’t use that word.

    Clio’s right. There is somethign very near-o m e g a about gingerly agreeing to risk life in prison on some woman’s whim. Worse that being in profound denial about one’s wife’s character.

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  187. on January 31, 2009 at 7:03 pm PA

    No, the articles seem to indicate he was just pulling a con on her.

    I missed that part. But there are still dopes out there like Savage’s reader.

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  188. on January 31, 2009 at 7:13 pm aliasclio

    Even if he was pulling a con, isn’t he likely to get into at least some legal trouble over this, if he feigned agreement and didn’t go to the authorities with the story immediately? Still pretty beta, it seems to me. But without more information, I suppose I can’t be sure.

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  189. on January 31, 2009 at 7:28 pm Steve Johnson

    “David Alexander has got to be the biggest douche on this board.”

    Nah.

    The biggest douches are the people who respond to him. He’d actually go away if he didn’t get any attention for his stupid act.

    It goes in circles too. He says the same stupid shit every time someone points out the holes in his view.

    STOP FEEDING THE DAMNED TROLL PLEASE.

    Even Nicole and sara actually contribute sometimes.

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  190. on January 31, 2009 at 7:37 pm kthulah

    Whiskey, why is it that you and others here insist that someone cannot be alpha because they don’t want the same things as betas?

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  191. on January 31, 2009 at 7:49 pm PA

    I don’t mind David, provided we’re not talking politics. He’s a smart and affable kid who is fun to go back and forth with on some sex/relationships-related topic.

    He makes his points clearly and straightforwardly, and those points have just enough truth in them (“women will never love betas”) that they can’t be dismissed as nonsense. But at the same time, his comments betray a big dose of youthful ignorance that I can relate to, thinking back to myself at his age. In a way, when I argue wth David about something, it’s like I’m arguing with a hardheaded 25-year-old version of myself.

    He also seems to read what others write, and not just “talk to hear himself talk.” In real-life interactions, that’s called “being a good listener,” which is a rare thing.

    The railfanning etc., appeals to my own kidlike indulgences, and you gotta admit, it’s endearing.

    The one thing that’s good to remember, once you accept for argument’s sake that David is who he says he is — a slightly exaggerated version of the real person — don’t try to change him. If he wants to live for LJBF hugs, let him. Argue with him for other readers’ sake, not to give him advice that only feeds his craving for attention but which he had no intention of following. This will prevent him from getting on your nerves.

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  192. on January 31, 2009 at 8:36 pm Jack

    Whiskey – why do you say that the guy in story #1 was better looking in college than he is at 28? I assume you mean that the female was better looking.

    You can’t see any close ups but the girl doesn’t look fat now. I think the major beta thing about that story is the fact that he allowed it to be published and see by everyone.

    Ryder – I get the same thing. My parents don’t get it either. They want me to meet a girl at a Christian singles dance. If these even exist, they certainly aren’t attracting the highest-quality women in any major city. My dad went to college dances while he was in med school. He thinks someone could do that nowadays. He doesn’t get that the guy would be thought of as “creepy” for doing so. Maybe things are more traditional in the Midwest or South, but in the Northeast, it’s meeting in bars, meeting through friends, or online. And meeting in bars is probably the easiest.

    If beta men, who number large amounts, really wanted to put energy towards changing the system, they could. Feminists have been doing so for 40 years, and they continue to work every day for weaker families, emasculated men, and special protections for women. They probably number fewer than beta males, but beta males don’t fight back. Not yet, anwyays.

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  193. on January 31, 2009 at 8:47 pm expats get the hotties

    “It is far, far worse than it was a mere fifteen years ago (who knows where it will end?). Poor little college boys today stuck with these heifers.”

    Do you have any links to pictures? I used to vend wares on campuses in the mid nineties, and saw that most women caught my eye. Most caught my heart, frankly.

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  194. on January 31, 2009 at 9:00 pm expats get the hotties

    Jack posited from brain space: “If beta men, who number large amounts, really wanted to put energy towards changing the system, they could. Feminists…”

    Changing the system – is that your plan? And what is your plan in the meantime?

    I think the best plan is always pragmatic dealing with what is here and now, and for me that means not being inside a system, but creating my own new systems. Don’t pay taxes, don’t use your real name, don’t play by girls rules – whatever. Game the system. Ignore the system. Make your own system. Change the system? Sounds idealistic and doomed and ethereal and heady and it’s been done a million times.

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  195. on January 31, 2009 at 9:01 pm Welmer

    expats get the hotties

    “It is far, far worse than it was a mere fifteen years ago (who knows where it will end?). Poor little college boys today stuck with these heifers.”

    Do you have any links to pictures? I used to vend wares on campuses in the mid nineties, and saw that most women caught my eye. Most caught my heart, frankly.

    Good question. No, I don’t have pictures, but someone ought to document this. Perhaps I’ll take up the job if I have time. But to be honest, I’m rather nervous around these types — they might think I’m interested and I don’t want them coming after me.

    And yes, the 90s were far better for some reason (and the 80s even better than that I’d guess, but I was too young to know). How did young women get so chunky and vile since then? Hormones in tap water? Supersize fast food? Computers and cars (sitting on their butts all day)? What is it?

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  196. on January 31, 2009 at 9:02 pm Glengarry Glenpoon

    aliasclio, good point about the betatude of the would-be killer. (Beta like Macbeth.) I wouldn’t be surprised if wifey turns out to be a sociopath, who are among other things often very charming.

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  197. on January 31, 2009 at 9:13 pm David Alexander

    There is somethign very near-o m e g a about gingerly agreeing to risk life in prison on some woman’s whim.

    Interestingly, when I was with the “mistress”, I never felt compelled to be that type of person for her. In contrast, I had feelings of deep loyalty to Wellesley Queen though, but I don’t think it went as far as committing crimes for her. Mind you, one can easily chalk that up to low self-esteem, the thirst for hugs, desperateness, and the belief that somebody is better than you. In the long-run, such a friendship was unstable because it eventually breeds paranoia about your place vis à vis her place.

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  198. on January 31, 2009 at 9:14 pm Jack

    I might have to step foot on a college campus and see if there really are a lot of fatties. I’m in law school so I’m not surrounded by hot women but I wouldn’t expect to be. From what I gather, college girls are as hot as ever but they, of course, have horrible and amoral personalities.

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  199. on January 31, 2009 at 9:18 pm expats get the hotties

    4names said:”I wouldn’t be surprised if wifey turns out to be a sociopath, who are among other things often very charming.”

    Some personality disorder is certain. BPD is the favorite, among women. You’ll never get laid better than by a woman with borderline personality traits.

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  200. on January 31, 2009 at 9:25 pm Anonymous

    #1 is Jewish. No wonder. That high Jewish IQ may be great for a lot of things, but seems to cause a lot of beta behavior too. And man that wedding looks expensive to boot.

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  201. on January 31, 2009 at 9:26 pm expats get the hotties

    PA advised: “The one thing that’s good to remember, once you accept for argument’s sake that David is who he says he is — a slightly exaggerated version of the real person — don’t try to change him. If he wants to live for LJBF hugs, let him. Argue with him for other readers’ sake, not to give him advice that only feeds his craving for attention but which he had no intention of following. This will prevent him from getting on your nerves.”

    It is interesting to note reactions to DA. It’s as if some people look in the mirror and blame their own reflection for faults. When DA causes emotions, surely the emoter is involved. Seems you have chosen the attitude to take simple pleasures and not be a puppet of obvious manipulation.

    Those who can’t see that DA is manipulative yell at TV wrestlers.

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  202. on January 31, 2009 at 9:29 pm expats get the hotties

    No Self mentioned: “That high Jewish IQ may be great for a lot of things, but seems to cause a lot of beta behavior too.”

    Ya, beta like a fox.

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  203. on January 31, 2009 at 9:36 pm expats get the hotties

    PA regalled: “…Because she feels “smothered” with him. He tossed out the word “abuser” as well.”

    There’s a man who has been puppeted by a woman with borderline personality traits.

    I dated several such women – and anyone who dates has also. One I kept for a year. Best education i’ve ever had. if you want to learn how to manipulate, learn from the masters. Forget watching House, MD. Date a BPD chick.

    It’s a constant battle, and you’ll be fitter for it.

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  204. on January 31, 2009 at 9:37 pm Outsider

    I frequently see on this blog the neat assumption that people in the West have “choice” (frequently voiced by women) while other nations — we poor, unwashed suckers — smart under the absence of that blissful thing.

    Note that those most vocal in emphasizing choice (especially in contexts of disowning any responsibility in duping betas) are basically women.

    “Choice” is of course a very cute word, indeed. And a synonym for “freedom” — which most refrain from overusing since words that are direct instantly betray the intent behind (like calling killing an unborn baby “terminating an unwanted pregnancy”).

    That wymmyn in non-Western societies don’t have much “choice” is generally coupled with another, equally juvenile, assumption that in those societies, since they are mostly ruled by patriarchy, it’s men who “choose.”

    What a sociologically unimaginative speculation. A conceptualization of “dominance” totally corrupted by the ultra-affluent West’s natives: dominance equated with having higher number of choices, or — worse — getting “what you want.”

    It’s suffers from the same silliness of thinking about individuals atomically, rather than molecularly.

    Choice is a very modern, luxury term. It’s been made possible only in the West after generations of heroic Western males broke their backs to create the abundance you are now mired in.

    For most of human existence, there was hardly anything like “choice” as an embodiment of the “meaning of life.” Life, as it was understood (pretty sensibly by people who had to fight practically every day of their lives with unrelenting elements), was more or less “fate.”

    In patriarchal societies, it’s not men who get whatever they want. Hardly anybody — other than the richest — gets much of anything they want. They’d be lucky if they had the luxury to fantasize about things they want — and therefore develop a sickening addiction to fantasies or “things I want.” Men or women, everyone has to follow the traditional norms — norms that took millennia to evolve, through bitter human experience.

    The weak’s survival strategy, as Nietzsche correctly observed, is guilt-tripping and manipulation. No wonder women obsess so much with “choice” because it’s a tacit way of supporting giving individuals more leeway in manipulating others.

    Heck, I’d even claim “choice” is a womanly, effeminate concept through and through.

    Dominance is not getting what you want. Only pampered American kids can obsess with getting everything you want. Dominance, in traditional societies, is measured in “getting things done” — which is hardly forcing others, with no regard to tradition, religion, morals, norms, etc., to do your bidding. Do you honestly believe, for instance, that a Pashtun warlord can just walk into any Afghani neighborhood, pick up any young and sweet thing, pump her and dump her and go her merry way? Without hell being literally raised as an all out intra-tribal, inter-clanal warfare?

    If getting what you want was the measure of dominance, a 10-year old brat raising hell just to get the toys he wants and makes her parents bend to his will would be the most dominant person in the room.

    Choice is an effeminate concept since it’s people addicted to their own desires who use it as a tool to achieve ends. It’s a time honored adage what an old (and brave) Roman general said: If I can’t rule myself (my desires, my fears) how can I rule others?

    Genuinely dominant people are least obsessed with their “desires.” Every desire is a weakness for a man, a security breach that can easily be exploited to corner him.

    Which is why those “alphas” in traditional societies are almost criminally cold and aloof, callous and unrelenting. Exactly because they know that the lives of countless dependents depend on their iron rule which cannot be squandered by fluff like “getting all the women you want.”

    Elvis can be an “alpha” only in modern, effeminate West. In Waziristan, they’d hang him by the balls on the nearest tree and unload their AK-47s on him.

    In all traditional societies, even in polygamous ones, alpha males and multiple women do not marry just so they can have all the fun they want. That’s sadly the figment of the circumcised modern Western male’s imagination. To the contrary, all marriages are arranged to control social rank/status, to manage scarce economic resources (so that they stay within the family/clan), to make truce and end inter-tribal warfare, etc. Fun is the bottom item on the list.

    —

    A side note: Every wannabe Western evolutionary psychologist seems to make the assumption that since women are more status conscious, they must have always been *the* agents of choosing. It never seems to occur to anyone that I breathe oxygen not because I choose to but because I have no choice. Same thing for women in all traditional settings.

    Which means, throughout the human evolutionary path, women hardly ever chose males. Rather, they were chosen. Which is why the moment the traditional control mechanisms were lifted they run amok and became so creepy. Exactly because unlike men (who, with their “hunters” brain, are way better at “calculated decision making”) their decision-making wiring is defective. Once the traditional mechanisms — which provided safety to everyone — are gone, they started self-destructing by seeking what-they-perceive-to-be the big shots in the room. And they are failing — as you all can see. Miserably. That’s because, in a social environment where traditional structures have disappeared, the biggest shots are Pashtun-like warriors but parasitic dipstick dippers like Elvis — since their success is measured in not how much they can get things done but how many women they can fuck. (End of Detour.)

    —

    Finally, the saddest thing about this blog is even though Roissy is very realistic debunking modern, liberal myths about women, most discussions don’t even raise the real issue. Almost every poster (but particularly males) is still obsessed with the typically modern Western thing: how to get laid as many times as you can.

    What modern liberalism and feminism did wasn’t just that it reduced the fate of betas (the majority of males in every society) to a pathetic state — that’s the issue between men and women. The worst thing it did is IT DESTROYED CAMARADERIE BETWEEN MEN.

    The whole purpose of so-called “oppressive” sexual norms is to reduce inter-male rivalry so that they can collaborate more effectively to deal with “hunting” challenges. A society drowning in “affluence” (most of which is masturbatory entertainment created by Keynesian, consumerist, debt-/spending-driven policies that mis-allocate scarce and valuable capital to short-term oriented, unproductive endeavors), one where “choice” rules supreme, is one that inevitably becomes deluded that most men are not needed any more — since under normal weather conditions, choice is a joke, and you need men to fight the elements, a purpose to which intra-gender rivalry of males is fatally detrimental.

    Your fathers, many of them such daring and hard-working men, have created this wealth, this illusion that “choice” is your birth-right for you. Nice work you’re doing now, thanking them by eating your corn seed.

    There’s one thing you can do to kill a man without so much as pulling the trigger of a gun: reduce him to uselessness/redundancy level. Make him lose his job, productive status, and all else will follow. He’ll first lose his woman, along with her his kids, and… well, that’s all it takes. He’ll find a way to slowly finish the job himself.

    The most effective way of creating the atmospheric conditions to destroy ordinary males in a society is corrupting its women.

    The civilization wreckers of the West seem to have pulled that off. What a feat.

    What they don’t understand, of course, (like those ultra-liberal Jews who support Muslim immigration to the West since they still equate “White” with “Nazi”) is they are wrecking the very system that made their ultra-powerful elite rule possible. When the whole structure becomes so rotten — like a house eaten away by bugs inside out — that it can’t support its weight anymore, it’ll finally hit them what they’ve done with all this liberalism shit the flagship of which is the crap called “wymmyn’s rites” and “choice.”

    A Theta male (theta being the “unknown angle” in trig)

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  205. on January 31, 2009 at 10:02 pm Anon2

    Coincidentally, I just read a funny local story involving a “beta” male doing a girl’s bidding that could land him in legal trouble:

    “When a guy doesn’t want to talk, there’s only so much a girl can do.For instance, police said, things went very wrong this week when a 19-year-old woman persuaded
    a friend to kidnap her ex-boyfriend and bring him to her so
    they could talk about relationship issues. The male kidnapper showed up with a gun Thursday at the Overland Park house where the 18-year-old boyfriend was playing video games. But the victim refused to go.”

    http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2009/01/woman-tried-to.html

    I don’t know what is funnier: the fact that the would be kidnapper left defeated or that the ex would rather risk getting shot than have to talk to his ex-girlfriend about their “relationship issues”.

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  206. on January 31, 2009 at 10:04 pm Sparks123

    Isn’t the early-20s obesity rate among men just as high as it is among women? It’s not skinny guys suffering fat women, it’s fat people suffering each other. Now granted, men care more about body in assessing a potential partner than women do, but don’t pretend it’s a one-way problem.

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  207. on January 31, 2009 at 10:07 pm expats get the hotties

    Arab Intellectual Outsider splurted:”..The weak’s survival strategy, as Nietzsche correctly observed, is guilt-tripping and manipulation. No wonder women obsess so much with “choice” because it’s a tacit way of supporting giving individuals more leeway in manipulating others…”

    You started out quite well, but lost the restraint that you call for.

    Less is more. Consicion, my friend.

    I disagree that an ecetic lifestyle, the lifestyle of an anti-hedonist, is armor against amour. I disagree with your fundamental premise, that you are at the whim of womens problems.

    Nice entry with re-hashing Nietzhe’s ideas though. They deserve to re-mentioned.

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  208. on January 31, 2009 at 10:14 pm PA

    Isn’t the early-20s obesity rate among men just as high as it is among women? It’s not skinny guys suffering fat women, it’s fat people suffering each other.

    Nah. Amonig white middle and lower class Americans, it’s mainly women who are fat. Absent major compensating virtues, fat guys don’t even get to have a girlfriends, fat or otherwise. I see lots of decent-looking male + fat female couples everywhere.

    Arab Intellectual Outsider

    What makes you think he’s Arab? He came off generally pro-Western and sceptical of Muslim immigration.

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  209. on January 31, 2009 at 10:14 pm expats get the hotties

    NotAnon laughed: “I don’t know what is funnier: the fact that the would be kidnapper left defeated or that the ex would rather risk getting shot than have to talk to his ex-girlfriend about their “relationship issues”.”

    And the alpha of the year award goes to the video game player.

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  210. on January 31, 2009 at 10:14 pm Welmer

    Sparks123

    Isn’t the early-20s obesity rate among men just as high as it is among women? It’s not skinny guys suffering fat women, it’s fat people suffering each other. Now granted, men care more about body in assessing a potential partner than women do, but don’t pretend it’s a one-way problem.

    No, I don’t think so. Lots of thin, fit young men surrounded by overfed young women thundering around from what I see.

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  211. on January 31, 2009 at 10:17 pm expats get the hotties

    Welmer mused: “thundering around”

    respect.

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  212. on January 31, 2009 at 10:21 pm expats get the hotties

    PA:”What makes you think he’s Arab? He came off generally pro-Western and sceptical of Muslim immigration.”

    What, and all westerners are Xtian?

    He’s not from the Americas, not fond of Jews, and has a westernized education. Let’s see if he tips his hand. He.

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  213. on January 31, 2009 at 10:21 pm Anon2

    Outsider – Fascinatingly good read. Finally glad I stopped to read here.

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  214. on January 31, 2009 at 10:27 pm PA

    You’re still not telling me why you think he’s Arab, being that he’s critical of Muslim immigration to the West. I’m asking because his comment was an interesting read and I’m wondering if you’ve picked up on soimething I’ve missed.

    The early part of his comment suggests he’s a non-Westerner, but the latter part sounds paleoconservative. I’d suspect he’s a non-Muslim south Asian, but maybe it’s just the mathematical reference at the end.

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  215. on January 31, 2009 at 10:29 pm whiskey

    Kthulah —

    Alpha means different things to men and women. To men, it is a position of patronage leadership. To women, it is the socially dominant male who can get any women he wants. THAT is my problem with the poster’s definition of her husband as Alpha (i.e. he can get any woman he wants) who chooses her, a significantly older woman.

    Example: NFL retired Coach Mike Holmgren is an Alpha. He has created a number of coaching careers out of his assistants, his coaching tree is rather large. Very few women would even tolerate the idea of sex with him. Though guys like him for his grandfatherly patronage ways. Meanwhile Russell Brand can get almost any woman, but guys dislike him and he has created no patronage network.

    My view, the poster’s husband is probably a lot more Holmgren than Brand, while she thinks the opposite.

    Jack — the guy was probably thinner and more youthful then than now. The girl has in the pics, a roll of belly fat (if you look closely). She in the story is described as fat (and farting). The lack of closeups is revealing — she’s not pretty. That to me is Beta-tude squared. Knowing you are marrying a woman who doesn’t love you and is merely settling because she’s fat and farting.

    Beta men have been substituting pr0n, video games, and consumer goods for relationships for about twenty years. That may end with a lasting recession, and could lead to what you describe. Even in the South and Midwest, women, including Christian women, are at bars picking up men for casual sex, not at various community dances and the like. That world is just gone, and is not coming back.

    High IQ tends to correlate highly with low testosterone. That’s why every smart guy I know who is successful with women tends to do things to conceal his IQ or mask it with high-risk activities like sky-diving, martial arts, boxing, whitewater kayaking, etc.

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  216. on January 31, 2009 at 10:34 pm PA

    High IQ tends to correlate highly with low testosterone.

    By high IQ, are you talking about guys who are smart enough to be lawyers or construction company managers, or are you talking about outliers with stratospheric IQs?

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  217. on January 31, 2009 at 10:36 pm PA

    What, and all westerners are Xtian?

    Yeah, not all Arabs are Muslim, but is there something telling you that he’s a Lebanese or Egyptian Copt, or somesuch?

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  218. on January 31, 2009 at 10:42 pm expats get the hotties

    PA:”I’d suspect he’s a non-Muslim south Asian, ”

    It’s simply that I live in SE Asia, and have never met an Asian intellectual. Arabs have that tradition. Dubai isn’t New York, but there are cosmopolitan eddies in Arab culture.

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  219. on January 31, 2009 at 10:46 pm PA

    I hadn’t considered the possibility of his being a secular Arab.

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  220. on January 31, 2009 at 10:47 pm PA

    Still, the immigration/Islam thing later in his comment came off as native-born US paleo in tone. Intresting comment, all in all.

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  221. on January 31, 2009 at 10:49 pm Anon2

    “To women, it is the socially dominant male who can get any women he wants.”

    I’m getting pretty tired of one person or even a group of people speaking for an entire gender.

    I’ll use the term alpha male however the hell I want. I’ll also see a man as alpha whenever the hell I want.

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  222. on January 31, 2009 at 10:51 pm PA

    I’ll use the term alpha male however the hell I want. I’ll also see a man as alpha whenever the hell I want.

    A man who prefers the loveliness of small breasts to the vulgar excess of large ones is an Alpha male in any woman’s book.

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  223. on January 31, 2009 at 10:54 pm Anon2

    “A man who prefers the loveliness of small breasts to the vulgar excess of large ones is an Alpha male in any woman’s book.”

    Hmmm let me think about that… 😉

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  224. on January 31, 2009 at 11:02 pm expats get the hotties

    Another option would be some former member of the USSR. But they don’t even count as a group – many may as well be lumped in with Arab. The cosmopolitan Russians don’t have such a tight sphincter.

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  225. on January 31, 2009 at 11:09 pm whiskey

    Outsider —

    Traditionally in the West male cooperation (rather low in Pashtun and indeed all polygamous or polyamorous societies) has been secured by the fairly free and independent choice of women on a relatively even playing field. With severe social sanctions for unfaithfulness, and poaching of women.

    It is the West’s former ability to marshal large-scale male cooperation through the relatively free choice of women that created it’s competitive advantage.

    However, the free choice of women had a few key constraints: women had to choose relatively early, and could not indulge in sex with lots of men — they had to choose one man and stick with him, making the attributes of lifetime choice as important as short-term attributes.

    In fact, considering Europe’s history, this becomes pretty solid. Europe (neither Romans nor Greeks considered themselves European and would have been highly insulted by that concept) was the plaything of the Greeks, Romans, and Carthaginians. After the Romans fell (low birthrates = not enough Roman legions), Europe was a barbarian backwater and plaything for the Arab invaders and Byzantine remnants and various barbarian hordes, including the bizarre, three-sided struggle between the Vikings!, Arabs, and Italians in Sicily in the 900’s. Only with monogamy, relatively free but constrained female choice in mates, did male cooperation in Europe increase (radically) and we find vast resource mobilization in place previously notable for poverty and violence and disease.

    The key being that men would indeed compete over women, but every guy had a relatively good shot at landing a woman relatively his own attractiveness and status level, and who would not just leave for a better deal elsewhere. Long term traits among men mattered as much as how hot they were in the room compared to other guys. Men were able to trust that their wives would be faithful and their kids their own. This worked good enough, to provide Western Civilization while others suffered under Eunuch/Imperial rule (China), feudal lords of the Big Man type (Japan), civilizational clashes (India/Arab lands) with an added dose of Big Man society.

    Two things stand out in thinking about post 1000 AD Europe. First, there’s plenty of medieval songs lamenting how a beloved has turned away from favoring the (male) singer, any Blues artist would recognize the sentiments. Clearly female choice (to fall out of love) is a long-lasting cultural artifact of the West. You would not find that among Pashtuns (love songs lamenting the beloved falling out of love). Some of those songs date back to the 1100’s. It’s that long-lasting.

    Next, you see in Europe all sorts of independent family firms, and independent entrepreneurs, like the Berettas (making firearms since the 1400s), or Caslon, or Garamond (famous typesetters), or Gutenberg, or Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. That sort of deep-wide resources only comes from every guy getting his own shot, not through tribal strictures and tradition, but free choice of women with key constraints.

    As a practical matter, can those restraints be reimposed? No. Obama’s victory shows that the alliance in the West of Single Women (70-29 for Obama), non-Whites, and Yuppie Status seekers is pretty unstoppable, even in America where there are more ordinary men of independence. It is possible that a long, cultural struggle, by convincing women that short-term choices are not only bad for their children (most women will choose sex/status over their children’s well-being, see Erin Brockovich) but more importantly, generating social disapproval from other women. In other words, unfashionable.

    Anon2 — you can demand in typical female fashion that people fall into female consensus as much as you want. Who cares? It’s proven by every GSS that women and men don’t find dominance to be the same thing. Women think Russell Brand is dominant, most men think it’s guys like Bill Cowher. That won’t change because of your PC demands.

    PA — See the GNXP link, a number of studies have shown men with 130 IQs have the same level of testosterone as men with 70 IQs. Testosterone tends to be concentrated in average IQs — around 100. GWB’s IQ was reputed to be around the neighborhood of 140 or so, we are not talking about stratospheric IQs. Which is even worse. Men with those type of IQs do very poorly with women, given their high orientation towards abstract spatial concepts and low verbal ability and social monitoring.

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  226. on January 31, 2009 at 11:11 pm expats get the hotties

    Allright, I’ll spell it out. He writes as a young smart male, with direct understanding of old culture ways. I believe all Aisan educated Asians are essentially female – incapable of of introspection or western style thought. Which parts of the planet harbor pockets of old school women and western education? And are anti-Jewish?

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  227. on January 31, 2009 at 11:12 pm expats get the hotties

    Allright, I’ll spell it out. He writes as a young smart male, with direct understanding of old culture ways. I believe all Asian educated Asians are essentially female – incapable of of introspection or western style thought. Which parts of the planet harbor pockets of old school women and western education? And are anti-Jewish?

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  228. on January 31, 2009 at 11:20 pm Anon2

    “Women think Russell Brand is dominant”

    I can guarantee you NO woman (or girl) I know (I know a lot more than you I can guarantee you) find him to be more than anything than a VILE low-life.

    PC my ass.

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  229. on January 31, 2009 at 11:54 pm whiskey

    Anon2 — then I suggest your circle of acquaintances is fairly limited. Brand certainly does well for himself, has a substantial female following (while men detest him), and is a regular inhabitant of the gossip sites / magazines, which are almost entirely female-based. Women love to read about him and look at his pictures. The more “outrageous” his behavior (and typical bad-boy) the more women respond to him.

    Yes it’s PC. All PC is really is female consensus on denial of reality to make it pretty. It’s damn PC.

    As for Outsider, he seems either a native Paleo-con, ala Derbyshire or Sailer, or a Latin American elite educated man adrift in the current environment. An Indian would not well regard Pashtuns, particularly after the latest Bombay atrocity hatched up by Pashtuns. Traditional Catholics do not like Jews much and regard them as cultural enemies due to Jews embrace of social change (and Traditional Catholics opposition of social change) in addition to traditional Catholic anti-Semitism (think Father Coughlin and the Obergammau Passion Plays).

    My guess, a Paleo-con social conservative who is also traditionally Catholic.

    The record of Jewish power in the US is a positive one, when Jews dominated Hollywood, as first-generation deeply assimilated men, it was the era of John Wayne, Frank Capra, Jimmy Stewart, and James Cagney. Meanwhile the era of WASPy Harvard grads is that of celebrations of family collapse “Squid and the Whale,” “Ice Storm,” “Walk on the Moon,” and pretty much any Diane Lane movie.

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  230. on January 31, 2009 at 11:58 pm Jack

    I don’t know who Russell Brand is. I of course do know who Bill Cowher is.

    It’s funny, the “do women like smart guys” thing. Many educated women say they require a smart guy. Some may belie that in their behavior, which is more important. Do they see a guy with significantly higher IQ as them as low-testosterone and less attractive? maybe. It seems that most couples get married with similar educational credentials, so for marriage at least, it is like attracts like.

    In story #1, we don’t know who the girl was fucking. They might have been higher-IQ “bad boys with nice cars”. I’ve known highly intelligent guys who cleaned up, and ones who were terrible. My impression is that some women find high intelligence a turnon, and others find it a turnoff.

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  231. on February 1, 2009 at 12:02 am expats get the hotties

    Nearlynoname elucidated with remarkable clarity, considering it came out of her anus: “I can guarantee you NO woman…”

    I can guarantee you that NO woman? How do you dare talk out loud? And in pubic?

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  232. on February 1, 2009 at 12:03 am Anon2

    “Yes it’s PC. All PC is really is female consensus on denial of reality to make it pretty. It’s damn PC.”

    Oh now women are also single-handedly responsible for the admitedly annoying overly-PC minded US?

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  233. on February 1, 2009 at 12:05 am Anon2

    “And in pubic?”

    Really dude?

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  234. on February 1, 2009 at 12:07 am expats get the hotties

    public.

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  235. on February 1, 2009 at 12:11 am expats get the hotties

    Whiskey came out with: “It’s proven by every GSS that women and men don’t find dominance to be the same thing”

    You said a mouthfull.

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  236. on February 1, 2009 at 12:15 am Tood

    ‘Changing the system’ will not happen in the next 20 years. It may take much longer than that.

    In the meantime, other factors in play are holographic/3-D interactive porn, sexbots, and the rapid spread of Islam in the West. All of these forces are dangers to feminism.

    But the legal system will be the last to change.

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  237. on February 1, 2009 at 12:17 am Anon2

    “Whiskey came out with: “It’s proven by every GSS that women and men don’t find dominance to be the same thing”

    You said a mouthfull.”

    I agree, but I don’t understand why that is a bad thing. This whole warlike mentality between the sexes make me sad…honestly.

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  238. on February 1, 2009 at 12:24 am expats get the hotties

    But more relevant to the romantic young man, is that women and men don’t find love to be the same thing.

    After that sinks in, you must learn other sex-languages, and that is the beginning of game. Of manipulation.

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  239. on February 1, 2009 at 12:27 am expats get the hotties

    AntiDarwinist opined: “This whole warlike mentality between the sexes make me sad…honestly”

    I bet your hamburger makes you sad also.

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  240. on February 1, 2009 at 12:36 am Anon2

    “I bet your hamburger makes you sad also.”

    That doesn’t make any damn sense. This whole site has become pointless.

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  241. on February 1, 2009 at 12:42 am Anon2

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

    Darwinism is as simple-minded as you are. I’m sick at home on a Saturday night. What is your excuse “alpha male”?

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  242. on February 1, 2009 at 12:51 am Jack

    Well the young men of today don’t have a generation to wait for things to change. There are things that can be done to expedite the process, but they may not be legal. Any group of people when organized can cause problems if it *really* wants to. Learn from the black activists.

    I guess for my generation it’s learning “game” and treating women as the shallow whores they mostly are.

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  243. on February 1, 2009 at 12:55 am whiskey

    Yes Anon2, PC is a mostly female phenomena. It gives power (to women, mostly see the View, PC-Central) to those who define what opinions and thought are fashionable and allowed and what is not allowed.

    A male dominated system would use typical thug-patronage violence to enforce compliance, not shaming and ostracism, which are women’s weapons, more humane to be sure. Saddam did not require you to have the correct thoughts or he’d shame you by not talking to you and calling you a bad person, he’d feed you feet first to an industrial shredder, while laughing.

    Men tend to choose violence and physical oppression and intimidation because they are good at it and it’s the tool that comes to mind, women choose ostracism and social status because that is THEIR weapon.

    Women, bad in street fights, men generally are good. No matter what fantasies of 5 feet petite women kicking ass.

    I certainly prefer women-generated PC to the kind of stuff men come up with to enforce social compliance (generally, killing people brutally). You don’t see very many female psychopaths, or murderers, or brutal leaders using violence to get off as much as enforce compliance. There are a few. But not many. But as much as women are generally well-balanced in terms of awful, psychopathic behavior, and eschewing brutal violence, they have their flaws.

    They would not be human if they did not.

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  244. on February 1, 2009 at 1:15 am expats get the hotties

    “Yes it’s PC. All PC is really is female consensus on denial of reality to make it pretty. It’s damn PC.”

    Are you saying that all femmes are commu-tards? That they pretend to having hive minds? That they are deeply and fundamentallly fascist, telling everyone to be the SAME?

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  245. on February 1, 2009 at 1:23 am expats get the hotties

    “. But as much as women are generally well-balanced in terms of awful, psychopathic behavior, and eschewing brutal violence, they have their flaws.”

    It might be that the bottle stole my ability to concentrate, but I can’t put those words together into a sentence.

    I get that you are comparing the relative pathology of the sexes.

    Don’t.

    Compare their relateve accomplishments.

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  246. on February 1, 2009 at 1:25 am Anon2

    Whiskey – I see where you are coming from now. Thank you for that explanation and for leaving the personal insults out of your post.

    I don’t know what it is about this site that gets me all riled up!

    I only come back for PA’s poetry. 😉

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  247. on February 1, 2009 at 1:31 am Anon2

    Out of curiosity: Do men ever get tired of having to don a jerk or asshole mask or exhausted trying to maintain or obtain “alpha status”?

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  248. on February 1, 2009 at 1:42 am expats get the hotties

    Notexactlyanomduplume thought her emotions should be publicly noted with”“I bet your hamburger makes you sad also.”

    That doesn’t make any damn sense. This whole site has become pointless.”

    Ya, it makes sense. You cry that the sexes war. You cry that poor little cows die. Big deal. You cry. What’s your point?

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  249. on February 1, 2009 at 1:45 am expats get the hotties

    Normaly I don’t spar with invalids, but out of boredom, I’ll swipe.

    “Anon2

    Out of curiosity: Do men ever get tired of having to don a jerk or asshole mask or exhausted trying to maintain or obtain “alpha status”?”

    Just try to imagine a man getting pleasure out of this. I know, it’s hard work for you. Imagine it.

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  250. on February 1, 2009 at 1:48 am Anon2

    No one is crying expat.

    Why don’t u and i go our separate ways and just ignore each other? truce?

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  251. on February 1, 2009 at 1:49 am expats get the hotties

    Whiskey noticed: “A male dominated system would use typical thug-patronage violence………”

    Yes, W, but you fail to see the interconnections between the two systems. How women chose risk taking men, how tribes fight, and steal each others women. You make it seem as if there are separate strategies.

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  252. on February 1, 2009 at 1:52 am Welmer

    Anon2

    Out of curiosity: Do men ever get tired of having to don a jerk or asshole mask or exhausted trying to maintain or obtain “alpha status”?

    I, for one, don’t bother with any of the above. At this point in my life, the majority of women simply disgust me. Yet some still seem interested, despite my rather blatant hints that I am not. For example, one asked me to go out with her this morning, which I did after she promised to buy lunch. And another wants me to go out with her this week.

    I just tell them: “look, I gave most of my money to my attorney to keep my kids and the rest goes into their mouths. I am still fighting my ex in court, and I don’t have time for you over here unless you’re going to cook, clean and do the laundry.” You’d think that would drive them away, but it doesn’t.

    For me, there’s no mask — it’s just plain honesty. And I don’t want to be an “Alpha,” I’ve just had it up to my ears with worthless prima donnas.

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  253. on February 1, 2009 at 1:56 am Anon2

    “You’d think that would drive them away, but it doesn’t.”

    I guess women don’t like easy men anymore than men like easy women?

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  254. on February 1, 2009 at 1:59 am expats get the hotties

    “You’d think that would drive them away, but it doesn’t.”

    You have read the articles on this website, haven’t you?

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  255. on February 1, 2009 at 2:01 am expats get the hotties

    Tryingtobeinvisible said out loud: “I guess women don’t like easy men anymore than men like easy women?”

    You don’t really think that, do you?

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  256. on February 1, 2009 at 2:06 am Anon2

    listen expat. i am only a 30 on roissys quaint value scale so insults and assholish behavior does nothing but make me withdrawl out of insecurity. so i’m not going to engage with you anymore. sorry.

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  257. on February 1, 2009 at 2:15 am expats get the hotties

    Cognitive dissonance is my pet peeve as well. it’s a geeks peeve. Better to be happy and enjoy the bomb. There is a system to game – at least others don’t know that.

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  258. on February 1, 2009 at 2:19 am expats get the hotties

    Hey whiney anon. I’m 5 foot seven and a half, balding, and not in great shape. 42. Cry to Oprah.

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  259. on February 1, 2009 at 2:25 am Welmer

    expats get the hotties

    “You’d think that would drive them away, but it doesn’t.”

    You have read the articles on this website, haven’t you?

    Yes, but I wasn’t actually trying to get them in bed. It’s a genuine sentiment, i.e. no “game” is involved, and it’s my impression that women really enjoy the “game” more than anything else.

    I like this blog for the writing and the keen observations. Roissy’s analysis of psychology is interesting and often quite insightful, but I’m no PUA, nor do I subscribe to hedonism. I’m more interested in asceticism, despite my current inability to pursue that lifestyle (asceticism, strangely, is something of a luxury these days).

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  260. on February 1, 2009 at 2:29 am expats get the hotties

    “and it’s my impression that women really enjoy the “game” more than anything else.”

    I don’t know shit also. I’m an honest idiot like you. You stumbled upon a small corner of a big place, and pause, in wonder.

    That’s enough. Never mind too much about the details. It’s wonderful. You did good, to pause.

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  261. on February 1, 2009 at 2:32 am canty

    Do men ever get tired of having to don a jerk or asshole mask or exhausted trying to maintain or obtain “alpha status”?

    That’s like asking do women ever get sick of calling each other fat sluts.

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  262. on February 1, 2009 at 2:38 am whiskey

    Expat — Yes, women do generally operate from social consensus. That’s not fascism, it’s “soft” depending on social conformity, absent penalties of violence.

    Yes women do often select for men who are violent and such, but women in traditional societies have little choice, in many cases not even vetoing choices of husbands, including here in the US if they are unfortunate enough to be born into Muslim or other traditional societies. Women in Pakistan hardly have choice of much of anything, and that society has not produced much other than meaningless tribal violence.

    Meanwhile women in the West did have choice, even back in the 1100’s, though it was subscribed, and in some cases only meant vetoing certain husbands. But it was always more than other societies, and men in the West LOVE strong and independent women (who have the hint of inner vulnerability). You find men particularly geeky guys gushing over those gals (distinct from the kick-ass only women that say Milla Jojovich plays). Women mostly chose guys for long-term as opposed to merely short-term qualities.

    Women’s choice in the West changed radically, in ways people have a hard time comprehending. There’s no real precedent for this radical change in choice.

    Anon2 — Yes men don’t like playing Hard-Ass Alpha Jerks. Most men cannot play that, and in fact in their work life must do things constantly that produce cooperation not being a jerk. See the film “Office Space” for an example. But women consistently choose jerks over everything else because their choices are informed by short-term criteria: who is the most socially dominant in terms of impressing other women by being “Hot.”

    Joe Average engineer must act cooperatively, not show up other guys, and share credit as well as blame in the workplace to be successful. THEN he has to do completely the opposite for a few hours in a bar to be successful with the ladies. Which contradicts everything older people tell him about being successful with women, and female propaganda (“be yourself”) and so on.

    Act cooperatively and unassuming, for 8-10 hours a day, week after week, then a loud peacock in a bar? Guess why so many men have huge problems with Game. It’s incompatible with male success in the workplace. [Women face the same constraints in the workplace, but need only be pretty to be wanted.]

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  263. on February 1, 2009 at 2:52 am Anon2

    ok expat you’ve been asking for it:

    i wasn’t whining just stating a fact. have u read the description of a 30? i do quite well for myself thank u very much.

    u however are pathetic: balding, short, bitter and 42? really? and acting the way you do? im embarassed for you

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  264. on February 1, 2009 at 3:12 am expats get the hotties

    W was as serious as I’ve ever been, when he carefully expained: Expat — Yes, women do generally operate from social consensus. That’s not fascism, it’s “soft” depending on social conformity, absent penalties of violence.

    Imagine a female only society. Amazons. I imagine you see them lasting. Imagine a male only society. Do they survive?

    You are polarized. Monkeys evoved in groups.

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  265. on February 1, 2009 at 3:14 am expats get the hotties

    Anon, you are acting like a woman. As if your words affect other women, and could socially ostracise me.

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  266. on February 1, 2009 at 3:14 am Michael Blowhard

    Whiskey praises the early creations of Jews in Hollywood, then writes: “Meanwhile the era of WASPy Harvard grads is that of celebrations of family collapse “Squid and the Whale,” “Ice Storm,” “Walk on the Moon,” and pretty much any Diane Lane movie.”

    Happy to bitch about Hollywood, WASPs, and Harvard, but to set the record straight … Noah Baumbach, writer/director of “The Squid and the Whale” — he’s half Jewish. “Ice Storm” — it was directed by the not-very-WASPy Ang Lee. “A Walk on the Moon” — it’s about Jews in the ’60s, it was written by Pamela Gray (Jewish), and it was directed by Tony Goldwyn, a descendant of Hollywood legend Samuel Goldwyn.

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  267. on February 1, 2009 at 5:11 am sara I

    Grim

    Sara’s a lady? I thought she was a fat ho. Shit, I don’t can’t name a single women I know a lady. They tossed that shit out with the 70s.

    No, I am not a lady, I am a woman and prefer it. A “lady” is generally phony in my book. I am neither fat nor ho, but you’re right about one thing; the song is from the 70’s.

    Regarding David Alexander; the thing I personally object to is porn addiction. Many of the boys here are pro-porn, but they hypocritically get off putting David down for being into it. Oh right, it’s a matter of degree and that he uses it instead of dipping his stick into lots and lots of pussy. Have you guys ever actually looked into the EYES of the women in porn? They are essentially DEAD.

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  268. on February 1, 2009 at 6:48 am Kthulah’s Bjournal » Blog Archive » Preach it, bruh!

    […] time to time, there’s a guy who sees beyong the pasture.  Here’s a copy of one of the brief, shining moments. […]

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  269. on February 1, 2009 at 7:52 am Willard Libby

    Two things stand out in thinking about post 1000 AD Europe. First, there’s plenty of medieval songs lamenting how a beloved has turned away from favoring the (male) singer, any Blues artist would recognize the sentiments.

    Here’s a great example of an Alpha male, handsome lead singer in a rock band, singing a Beta man’s complaint.

    Alpha displaying Beta “sensitivity” seems to work. But if a Beta does it then it’s either pathetic or funny, as in Woody Allen’s characters, if done as a joke.

    Remember the real Woody Allen is an Alpha. He plays Beta for laughs and money.

    Testosterone tends to be concentrated in average IQs — around 100.

    Circulating testosterone is overrated. Available receptors in the cell tissue are necessary to make use of the testosterone. There are genetic differences in people that influence the body’s ability to make use of the available testosterone.

    GWB’s IQ was reputed to be around the neighborhood of 140 or so, we are not talking about stratospheric IQs.

    What good is your age 20 tested IQ if you spend the next 20 years pickling your brain in drugs and alcohol and never bothering to read a difficult book?

    Meanwhile the era of WASPy Harvard grads is that of celebrations of family collapse ..

    What? Who? Where? WASP graduates of Harvard? Writing and directing anything in Hollywood?

    I don’t think so.

    But I agree that many of the old Jews of early Hollywood were very pro Idealized White America, minus the religion. They put out a lot of material that would never been made today by the kind of Jews who have been running Hollywood since the 1960s.

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  270. on February 1, 2009 at 7:55 am Willard Libby

    sara I – Have you guys ever actually looked into the EYES of the women in porn? They are essentially DEAD.

    How would YOU know this? How much porn-slut-research have you done?

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  271. on February 1, 2009 at 7:56 am kthulah

    Whiskey said, “Alpha means different things to men and women. To men, it is a position of patronage leadership. To women, it is the socially dominant male who can get any women he wants. THAT is my problem with the poster’s definition of her husband as Alpha (i.e. he can get any woman he wants) who chooses her, a significantly older woman.”

    Whiskey, please don’t assume that all women are stupid and have never read any biology or anthropology text more complex than the back side of a sea monkey packet.

    I’d guess that most women who post here and are supportive of the ethical sector of the PUA movement know very well what social hierarchy is, and are pleased that men are manning up.

    Humans have considerable overlap between genders in social status. If men aren’t being men, there’s an imbalance…same as when women aren’t being women. When we’re not posting here, we’re most likely posting at cooking and craft sites, and between the endless kvetching about how horrible men are at women’s sites, reminding our sisters of selection bias tainting their views.

    Canty says, “That’s like asking do women ever get sick of calling each other fat sluts.”

    It’s apparently fun for girls and boys. LOL!

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  272. on February 1, 2009 at 8:08 am Willard Libby

    I can only quote Kurtz from Apocalypse Now! The Horror, the Horror!

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  273. on February 1, 2009 at 8:16 am gig

    Yes, women do generally operate from social consensus. That’s not fascism, it’s “soft” depending on social conformity, absent penalties of violence

    good point.

    Another result of woman’s suffrage. The permanent corruption of political discourse due to woman’s need to avoid hurting someone’s feelings and their need fo assurance in their self-deluded views.

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  274. on February 1, 2009 at 9:13 am Comment_The_Really_Real_World


    Your fathers, many of them such daring and hard-working men, have created this wealth, this illusion that “choice” is your birth-right for you. Nice work you’re doing now, thanking them by eating your corn seed.

    The world is a little older than fifty years.

    Think about that, and I’m sure a few things will occur to you.

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  275. on February 1, 2009 at 10:36 am ironrailsironweights

    Here’s a tasty little GNP from an unusual angle.

    Peter

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  276. on February 1, 2009 at 2:40 pm sara I

    Willard

    How would YOU know this? How much porn-slut-research have you done?

    Thank you for your response. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look and see if you have the eyes for it. I’ve seen porn and came to a conclusion. Stop the press.

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  277. on February 1, 2009 at 2:42 pm whiskey

    Blowhard — you miss my point. WHO runs Hollywood? Well in Fox it’s Rupert Murdoch and whoever is his point man at 20th Century Fox. For Warners, it is whoever is in THAT rotating chair appointed by the head of Time Warner. At Paramount, it’s whoever Viacom Chair Sumner Redstone has decided to appoint.

    In all cases, you have publicly traded corporations, beset by internecine conflicts, and no first generation, deeply assimilated entrepreneurs of Jewish background (grateful for American acceptance) making movies celebrating America.

    Instead all these projects were greenlit by various Studio Execs out of Harvard and such. Angst Lee is a good point — he’s a SWPL director, not a guy who gets stories on time, budget, and to popular appeal. Point: there were no explicitly Jewish themed movies made during the reign of say Louis Mayer at MGM, because Mayer though Jewish was deeply assimilated and an entrepreneur, making a movie about the liberating effects of an affair would have been unthinkable.

    Libby — Bush in contrast to Obama and Clinton is a voracious reader. Also very disciplined. You might quarrel with the man’s judgment and acumen, but he is not stupid. His preferred reading material is conservative History, Rove had an article out detailing both Bush’s reading habits (he read for relaxation) and his habit of inviting authors to discuss their work.

    WASP Harvard grads run Hollywood. They run the Simpsons (the Harvard Mafia), SNL, a lot of TV, and as noted above the critical executive chairs in the Studios. Where approval of projects is not based on an entrepreneurs sense of probable success but social connections. Contrary to the Golden Age, Jews are far more represented in acting, directing, and to a lesser extent, screenwriting. But WASPY guys like say, Joss Whedon (Women’s Studies major at Brown) are far more dominant than say, guys like Mayer.

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  278. on February 1, 2009 at 3:02 pm ResidentCynic

    @whiskey

    “Bush in contrast to Obama and Clinton is a voracious reader.”

    ROFLMAO! I’m coming in late and only got the punchline. Can someone explain the setup?

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  279. on February 1, 2009 at 4:06 pm Dave R

    I had to vote for #3, rationalizing away and forgiving your wife trying to kill you. Still, for everyday, everyman betahood #1 is a prime example.

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  280. on February 1, 2009 at 4:24 pm Michael Blowhard

    Whiskey — You’re hallucinating. Check out Joel Stein’s recent piece. Quick excerpt:

    How deeply Jewish is Hollywood? When the studio chiefs took out a full-page ad in the Los Angeles Times a few weeks ago to demand that the Screen Actors Guild settle its contract, the open letter was signed by: News Corp. President Peter Chernin (Jewish), Paramount Pictures Chairman Brad Grey (Jewish), Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Robert Iger (Jewish), Sony Pictures Chairman Michael Lynton (surprise, Dutch Jew), Warner Bros. Chairman Barry Meyer (Jewish), CBS Corp. Chief Executive Leslie Moonves (so Jewish his great uncle was the first prime minister of Israel), MGM Chairman Harry Sloan (Jewish) and NBC Universal Chief Executive Jeff Zucker (mega-Jewish). If either of the Weinstein brothers had signed, this group would have not only the power to shut down all film production but to form a minyan with enough Fiji water on hand to fill a mikvah.

    The person they were yelling at in that ad was SAG President Alan Rosenberg (take a guess). The scathing rebuttal to the ad was written by entertainment super-agent Ari Emanuel (Jew with Israeli parents) on the Huffington Post, which is owned by Arianna Huffington (not Jewish and has never worked in Hollywood.)

    The Jews are so dominant, I had to scour the trades to come up with six Gentiles in high positions at entertainment companies. When I called them to talk about their incredible advancement, five of them refused to talk to me, apparently out of fear of insulting Jews. The sixth, AMC President Charlie Collier, turned out to be Jewish.

    One of the explanations for the diff between old-style Hollywood and new-style Hollywood has to do with the diffs between old-style immigrant Jews, eager to make it and be accepted, and pampered/overeducated up-to-date second-and-third-generation American-born Jews. But I’ve run across no one claiming that Jews aren’t still hugely prominent in the business. And good for them.

    Hey, funny joke. I once asked a Jewish person I knew in the filmbiz about it. She said, “Well, I’ve known some gentiles in the movie business.” She paused, thought, then said, “Of course, they haven’t done very well …”

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  281. on February 1, 2009 at 4:25 pm ASDF

    Whiskey:

    You need to write a book about your western cooperation theory. It makes a lot of sense and is an idea that needs to get out into the mainstream, or at least further into the Steveosphere.

    I would also love to see the look on SWPL women’s faces when you tell them that their obligation to the global community is not to be found in the trendy liberal causes to which they subscribe, but are rather to forego a useless master’s degree and instead marry a normal guy and have babies.

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  282. on February 1, 2009 at 4:36 pm Keith

    “The second bonus was to turn our marriage around.”

    Before we write this off as mere beta-ism, you gotta remember his legal strategy.

    If the kidney was just a gift, he has no claim in his lawsuit. He has to claim that the kidney provided some kind of agreed-upon quid pro quo of his kidney in exchange for a good faith attempt on her part to be a good wife. That’s what enables the lawsuit to go as far as possible. It’s a loser of a lawsuit, but this claim allows him to run longer with the lawsuit and grind her down.

    So if he’s gonna ream her sorry ass with this lawsuit and make her soak up time and money and keep muddying her and bloodying her in public, he has to say this.

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  283. on February 1, 2009 at 5:03 pm Old Guy

    Comment_The_Really_Real_World

    Your fathers, many of them such daring and hard-working men, have created this wealth, this illusion that “choice” is your birth-right for you. Nice work you’re doing now, thanking them by eating your corn seed.

    Let’s see, they retired and left us the bills – aka Social Security. Then they sent us to Vietnam and pulled the plug on our allies. Yeah, my generation owes them a lot.

    Dad’s generation was left WWII, courtesy of the generation that screwed up the peace after WWI.

    So it goes, kids. A Republic, if you can keep it. If you lack the stones, there is no shortage of those who will take it from you.

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  284. on February 1, 2009 at 5:19 pm chic noir

    WhiskeyI certainly prefer women-generated PC to the kind of stuff men come up with to enforce social compliance (generally, killing people brutally). You don’t see very many female psychopaths, or murderers, or brutal leaders using violence to get off as much as enforce compliance

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/fashion/01womyn.html?_r=1&ref=style
    The women at this lesbian commune agree with you completely. One of the women says that she feels so much safer being around women (only). I’ve imagined how much safer the world would be if men disappeared or if the number of men was greatly reduced. NO more perverts, peeping toms, street harassment, child molesters would decrease sharply.

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  285. on February 1, 2009 at 5:26 pm Willard Libby

    Michael Blowhard, thanks for your comment to whiskey. That’s my view as well. I was too lazy to make the effort to write it.

    Whiskey is good, I mean commenter whiskey is good. I don’t drink alcohol. But maybe whiskey drinks too much if he thinks these imaginary Harvard WASPs run Hollywood.

    ..(Bush’s) His preferred reading material is conservative History, Rove had an article out detailing both Bush’s reading habits (he read for relaxation) and his habit of inviting authors to discuss their work.

    Rove is full of shit. Tubby has a Brokeback Mountain bromance with GW.

    Bush doesn’t read anything other than some lightweight stuff to help him get to sleep.

    Roissy, you need to do a post on The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar

    The book content is up online at various sites.

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  286. on February 1, 2009 at 6:01 pm Steve Johnson

    “I’ve imagined how much safer the world would be if men disappeared or if the number of men was greatly reduced. NO more perverts, peeping toms, street harassment, child molesters would decrease sharply.”

    Yep, no more perverts.

    On the other hand, I don’t think humans would survive a single winter without men.

    How many women know enough simple engineering to keep power plants running? How about ships for transporting oil? How about coal mines and oil wells?

    Assuming they survive, how many women know anything about anything that runs a modern economy? How many female computer programmers are there? Network support specialists?

    Even the stuff that women do do, like writing press releases and designing shoes can’t be done without men. Good luck getting leather without men. Good luck with having newspapers exist to run press releases (obviously the internet is a thing of the past without men).

    The difference between the “what would the world look like without men” and “what would the world look like without women” questions is that there was a time when women didn’t participate in the economy and everyone was just fine.

    That said, a world with almost no women would tear itself apart pretty quickly fighting for the few remaining women.

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  287. on February 1, 2009 at 6:07 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    “One of the women says that she feels so much safer being around women (only). I’ve imagined how much safer the world would be if men disappeared or if the number of men was greatly reduced. NO more perverts, peeping toms, street harassment, child molesters would decrease sharply.”

    Keep in mind they’ve sectioned off a piece of land in a country that was designed for such freedoms by men. They probably live in houses built by men and utlize supplies and food delivered by men.

    If men disappeared, you’d lose the weirdos, but also the inventors, the ideas people, the genuises (genuis is found almost exclusively in men) and also the people who do the heavy lifting. Look around you. Virtually everything you see and own was designed and/or put together by men.

    Also, any WOMAN who has worked in an all-female place will tell you women are, in fact, more difficult and competitive than men. Stereotypes like the women in “The Devil Wears Prada” don’t come from nowhere.

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  288. on February 1, 2009 at 8:23 pm expats get the hotties

    “Yes, women do generally operate from social consensus. That’s not fascism, it’s “soft”…”

    Yes, operating from social consensus is fascism, because there is not has never been and will never be social consensus. It’s impossible, unless enforced. Socially enforced, physically enforced, whatever. Forcing anything if fascist.

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  289. on February 1, 2009 at 8:29 pm expats get the hotties

    Sara said “I’ve seen porn and came to a conclusion. ”

    Maybe you saw poor porn. Good sex can also be filmed. It often is.

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  290. on February 1, 2009 at 8:44 pm expats get the hotties

    chic fantasised:”NO more perverts, peeping toms, street harassment, child molesters would decrease sharply.”

    And none of the technology that allowed for you to be born and fantasise of a non-darwinian utopia.

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  291. on February 1, 2009 at 9:23 pm expats get the hotties

    “Yes, women do generally operate from social consensus… ”

    It should also be mentioned that women are forever moaning “why can’t we just all get along”, but in reality never do get along. Feminist blogs are the perfect example. There is no and has never been and will never be consensus among women. They just coerce with feelings – they don’t actually concede.

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  292. on February 1, 2009 at 9:47 pm Welmer

    chic noir

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/fashion/01womyn.html?_r=1&ref=style
    The women at this lesbian commune agree with you completely. One of the women says that she feels so much safer being around women (only). I’ve imagined how much safer the world would be if men disappeared or if the number of men was greatly reduced. NO more perverts, peeping toms, street harassment, child molesters would decrease sharply.

    I’m sure they’d be happy to have you there. If that’s your gig, nobody’s stopping you.

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  293. on February 1, 2009 at 9:52 pm Welmer

    Michael Blowhard

    Whiskey — You’re hallucinating.

    Check out Joel Stein’s recent piece. Quick excerpt:

    How deeply Jewish is Hollywood?[…]

    He’s got the heebie-jeebies.

    Heh, that’s a good one, even if I do say so myself.

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  294. on February 1, 2009 at 10:02 pm expats get the hotties

    Whiskey, the point I was trying to make is that when discussing men and women’s coercion strategies, it must always be kept in women’s strategies don’t exist in a vacuum, and are not just another style or option. They have the option to have that style only by the fact of men using a different style. We create the world they bicker over.

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  295. on February 1, 2009 at 10:03 pm David Alexander

    but are rather to forego a useless master’s degree and instead marry a normal guy and have babies

    I’d imagine they’d be rather pissed since raising children and marrying a normal guy is rather mundane and boring and doesn’t change much. Attaching one’s self to a cause can create a feeling of being apart of a larger group and the feeling of doing something useful to make the world better. In other words, your life isn’t the pointless replicant of your parents.

    Mind you, if you’re a beta male, and you’re aware that outside of the old social vacuums of earlier eras, women only desire you for your money, credit score, and approval for parents, why would you want to bother with women and get married in the first place? Whiskey’s theories only work if men still believe that they’re wanted and loved, but once you realize you realize that you’re only being used, do you really still want her? Besides, do you really want the women that *naturally* find you attractive?

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  296. on February 2, 2009 at 1:06 am Michael Blowhard

    Willard — Yeah, Whiskey is a supersmart, superinteresting commenter, no question about that. So I’m baffled: How has he convinced himself that WASPs have taken over Hollywood?

    Since we’re all trading book titles … Has anyone else tried Warren Farrell’s “The Myth of Male Power”? Pretty good stuff.

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  297. on February 2, 2009 at 1:16 am whiskey

    Michael — You are confusing OWNERSHIP with agent-management.

    Chernin serves at the pleasure of Murdoch, same for the rest. Sony’s Brit Chairman can fire Lynton at any time, same with Moonves and Sumner Redstone. Average tenure is about ten years at most of these places.

    Deeply assimilated Jews OWNED Holllywood and ran it, and well, during it’s heyday. Now you have a bunch of hired hands (both Grant Tinker and Brandon Tartikoff preceded Zucker at NBC) who rotate in and out at the pleasure of the Corporate Chair.

    The guys you cite there could be gone tomorrow, they are hired hands, and wow some have already left.

    Chic — you are perfectly correct, but also there would be little to no maintenance of infrastructure (women don’t like uncool, “dirty” jobs that require exhausting physical labor), little to no science or technology advances, and certainly no children. As a practical matter, an all female society if it could be constructed would stagnate into the relative achievement of a stone-age hunter-gatherer society. Men like women are not going anywhere, so women had best make their accomodation with the choices they make, including a whole whopping bunch of men with ZERO stake in women, and even less interest in defending them from the predations of angry, women deprived Third Worlders. The average Jihadi looks at those women and thinks: defenseless would-be slaves.

    Libby: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123025595706634689.html

    The list is extensive and Bush’s reading habits on Air Force One well known to reporters. As is his thank you notes to living authors, and evenings with those he invited to the White House including Victor Davis Hanson.

    In the 35 years I’ve known George W. Bush, he’s always had a book nearby. He plays up being a good ol’ boy from Midland, Texas, but he was a history major at Yale and graduated from Harvard Business School. You don’t make it through either unless you are a reader.

    I’ll note no one has disputed Rove’s list or column.

    Bush is not an idiot, nor is the image the man. Obama (ghost wrote with Bill Ayers help, according to textual analysis of his books and Ayers) is an author, but an admitted light reader and has a closed mind and a “Race Man” ideology. Clinton like noted “intellectual” Adlai Stevenson went from one year to another never reading a book. Too busy banging interns and starlets I suppose. That’s not to say Bush is a good or even a great President. But he’s not the yokel the Media supposes him nor is Obama the Big Man intellectual either. [“Uh Uhm Uh Umm”]

    Expats — good insight. It’s a world of “Mean Girls” writ large.

    David Alexander — prior social arrangements were good enough for most people to be mostly happy and productive. It beats finding yourself in a smelly hippie commune. Reality is that very few people outside family will find lasting meaning, the cause generally ends up with drinking of Kool Aide.

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  298. on February 2, 2009 at 2:19 am Michael Blowhard

    Whiskey — Conglomerate ownership has made a big difference in Hollywood. But 1) Hollywood even back in the good ol’ days depended on bank (ie., Eastern-establishment) money. And 2) if you talk to people in TV and movies and try to argue that the honchos named in Stein’s article *aren’t* powerful and influential, you’ll be laughed at.

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  299. on February 2, 2009 at 2:38 am whiskey

    Michael — they may be powerful and influential, but they are hired hands.

    It’s a classic agency problem. They are management. Like Roger Smith at GM. NOT owners. As management their primary concern is constructing a social network for a soft landing when they get fired. Not if.

    It’s the same with coaching, and the same patronage networks abound.

    Sir Howard Stringer exerts more control and pull over Sony, and even he answers to Sony’s shareholders, which are an interlocked group of Japanese banks and businesses aligned with Sony.

    Stringer can fire the studio head, and will if he has to. This social network is the product of good times rolling, in the corporate networks that gobbled up the Film and TV studios and Networks. Time Warner CEO Parsons is arguably far more powerful than whoever is sitting in the chair at Warners. If Parsons wants that guy gone because he’s not met his numbers, he’ll be gone. And Parsons is not Jewish.

    Most of the golden age movies were self-financed, and nearly ALL made money. Today, only a few big blockbusters make money, and that requires or did require both foreign investors and Wall Street. It’s doubtful that the capital we saw years before will be available, nor the kind of make-work, prestige movies designed to push up the execs social network (by making Tom Cruise or Sean Penn happy with a pet project) that won’t make money, will be possible.

    Indeed the new age of film and tv in a deep depression (DVD sales are TANKING) makes these guys you list dead men walking. They simply cannot meet their numbers. In fact, it’s likely at least one studio will fail or be written off. My money is on Paramount — Viacom probably does not have enough income to keep both it and CBS afloat, and CBS actually makes (some) money.

    Indeed, once you get beyond Studio heads, into production guys who do their work for them, mostly, it’s the Harvard/Yale/Columbia mafia. Not surprising given the corporate politics involved and the amount of control/money that the main corporate groups operate under. FWIW Fox under Murdoch has less of the Ivy League Weasels reportedly than others. And of course Agencies are chock-ful of Harvard/Yale types. Ari Emmanuel may be the model for Ari Gold, but the reality according to a friend who worked for Ovitz is that its is mostly filled with guys who went to the Ivies.

    And yes, Gays are over-represented relative to population in Hollywood, and dominate the culture, but do not control the money. That is a critical distinction.

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  300. on February 2, 2009 at 3:16 am RF Interference

    “WTF do these guys go after slutty, washed up Jewish bitches who will inevitably divorce them after popping out 2-3 child support units from their shop-worn vaginas?”

    My good buddy went to Hofstra. He used to get a huge kick out of the JAPs who never went to temple but would only date Jewish guys (not that he minded, saved him the trouble).

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  301. on February 2, 2009 at 3:31 am expats get the hotties

    Dave guessed: “I think you’re on to something here…when men get married, one of the biggest problems is that there formerly alpha behavior disappears through complacency, laziness and/or sheer ignorance,”

    It’s worse than that. As soon as you are pussy whipped into being monogamously married, your testosterone level drops. We are zebra fish – higher testosterone makes manly, getting us more girls, which maintains higher testosterone. Marriage kills manliness physically.

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  302. on February 2, 2009 at 3:36 am expats get the hotties

    David wondered: “An alpha would bang an woman with kids. It doesn’t seem to make sense given that alpha males can pick younger and/or better looking women without kids…”

    Doesn’t make sense? How is your libido, lately? An alpha has a strong one. Being a mother doesn’t make a woman less attractive for sex. It might make her less valuable as a long term mate. Young moms can be explosive.

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  303. on February 2, 2009 at 3:36 am kthulah

    Whiskey said, “prior social arrangements were good enough for most people to be mostly happy and productive.”

    No, they weren’t. They were good enough for the few who lived well on the backs of the many, to be mostly happy and productive.

    Their happiness and productiveness was dependent on a very oppressed working class, much like today except that we “outsource” most of the real grunt work like picking fruit and making clothes.

    Poor women could never afford *not* to work. Also, bear in mind that even when it came to sexual “happiness”, the lower classes were exploited so the higher classes could preserve their chastity.

    If people roll back to the way things were, that means rolling back to greater sexual exploitation of the poor becoming okay again, and alot more kept women.

    Some of “the good old days” is why I have to consult the aunt who knows who everybody’s real daddy is and mistresses were before I can date anyone in my home town.

    Granted, this system was great for middle to upper class beta males. Aside from their idyllic and nearly platonic wives, they had greater access to “soft” prostitution.

    I’d kinda rather have “soft” polygamy and serial monogamy than rampant “soft” prostitution. It’s becoming sort of like that here in Israel where there’s a convenient disposable class of non Arab non Jews, though even quite a few “damaged goods” Arab and Jewish women are finding themselves in that situation.

    This is why, hopeless as he may seem, I understand David a bit. I won’t kneel before Zod and accept a convenience based relationship that amounts to being kept in a social shack and used with impunity either.

    “It beats finding yourself in a smelly hippie commune.”

    How about a moderate to somewhat conservative commune? Those do exist, formally and informally.

    “Reality is that very few people outside family will find lasting meaning, the cause generally ends up with drinking of Kool Aide.”

    That doesn’t mean that women should bank their future on people who, as another commenter said, are fickle and likely to replace them at 30-35.

    For those who can afford it, life as a housewife and a mother with no other occupation is a great idea. Not everyone can afford that though. So a woman would do well not to sacrifice her education for anyone, as having one is her best chance of being able to afford to be a full time wife and mom anyway…but she can and should still work at home, job share, or use other options to make sure that if her husband/partner gets the itch, she has some means to support herself and the kids without him, if it comes to that.

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  304. on February 2, 2009 at 5:36 am shark

    Outsider/Theta – brilliant post.

    Do you have your own blog?

    If not, you should set one up and start writing.

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  305. on February 2, 2009 at 7:20 am gig

    outsider´s post is brilliant indeed

    Also, bear in mind that even when it came to sexual “happiness”, the lower classes were exploited so the higher classes could preserve their chastity

    come on Nicole! If the upper classes were caste, the only ones to explore the lower classes were the lower class themselves.

    As soon as you are pussy whipped into being monogamously married, your testosterone level drops. We are zebra fish – higher testosterone makes manly, getting us more girls, which maintains higher testosterone. Marriage kills manliness physically.

    The French/Italian solution for this problem is: make male infidelity tolerable

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  306. on February 2, 2009 at 7:35 am expats get the hotties

    An unpronounceabe simbol posited:”If people roll back to the way things were, that means rolling back to greater sexual exploitation of the poor becoming okay again, and alot more kept women.”

    Unless I’m misunderstanding what you are alluding to, you are totally out of touch with how economic need drives prostitution. It doesn’t. Japanese schoolgirls prostitute at high rates. It isn’t merely about need.

    I’m not sure why so many women have the emotional need to see prostitution as some form of slavery. Out of touch, and prude.

    It’s a highly addictive lifestyle. Even prostitutes who strike it rich with a perfect husband often maintain their prostitute ways, on the sly. They are not broken, needy people. They are having fun, and making wads of cash. You are too far away from what you speak.

    And if you are suggesting that the marriage contract is soft prostitution, you’ve got that both right, and ass backwards, at the same time. It is, therefore the men are being exploited.

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  307. on February 2, 2009 at 7:38 am kthulah

    Gig, sorry I didn’t make it more clear. What I meant was so that upper class *women* could preserve their chastity, the lower classes were exploited.

    It was easy for a middle to upper class guy to select a virgin wife if nearly all the women in his class were protected, and he could always go slumming for sex.

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  308. on February 2, 2009 at 7:43 am kthulah

    Expat, I’m aware that prostitution is a cultural issue, not just an economic one…but there’s a big difference between Japanese schoolgirls in sponsored relationships and what was going on in the U.S. 50+ years ago.

    I’m talking about young girls making a choice between inhaling phosphorus for 16+ hours a day, or taking candy from a handsome stranger who can afford to feed their family of 10 crammed into a literally rat infested one room flat.

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  309. on February 2, 2009 at 8:05 am expats get the hotties

    Gig (the Thai word for fuck-buddy) stated the obvious with: “The French/Italian solution for this problem is: make male infidelity tolerable”.

    My live in girfriend of two years knows I’ll go to Jakarta for a few months, on a major pussy hunting mission. And about time too.

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  310. on February 2, 2009 at 8:11 am expats get the hotties

    “I’m talking about young girls making a choice between inhaling phosphorus for 16+ hours a day, or taking candy from a handsome stranger who can afford to feed their family of 10 crammed into a literally rat infested one room flat”

    I’m not sure if you are trying to be unintelligible, didn’t quite explain yourself in a way that I understand, I’m not trying hard enough, or I’m thick. But I have no idea what you are talking about. I’m hoping it is more than mere emotional disgust, painted as real ideas.

    Does phosphorus make you high? What does it feel like? Never heard of that.

    Candy from men who can’t kill rats? I’m not getting it.

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  311. on February 2, 2009 at 8:16 am expats get the hotties

    Perpetual Victim Ktulah, you have not nearly enough respect for the power of your sex. How could it possibly be true for a sex to be exploited for so long? You underestimate your place in the big picture, and take on a mans view. ALL that we do is for pussy. And it pisses me off when old cutures are discussed as patriarchal. They are actually matriarchal. Indonesia is matriarchal.

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  312. on February 2, 2009 at 8:17 am expats get the hotties

    India is matriarchal.

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  313. on February 2, 2009 at 8:32 am expats get the hotties

    Even Thailand is a land of Momma’s boys.

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  314. on February 2, 2009 at 8:34 am expats get the hotties

    Even Thailand is a land of Momma’s boys.

    I have to wonder if there isn’t a personality type addicted to victimhoos – like some people are prone to become physically addicted to gambling.

    I suspect Jews and other neurotics love it.

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  315. on February 2, 2009 at 8:35 am expats get the hotties

    Even Thailand is a land of Momma’s boys.

    I have to wonder if there isn’t a personality type addicted to victimhood – like some people are prone to become physically addicted to gambling.

    I suspect Jews and other neurotics love it. I guess some people are prone to fighting on their backs, and even while winning, complain to the ref.

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  316. on February 2, 2009 at 8:36 am expats get the hotties

    ooops.

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  317. on February 2, 2009 at 8:48 am expats get the hotties

    Simple: if women have been exploited for thousands of years, you truly are inferior, and deserve. If you are not inferior, you have not been exploited.

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  318. on February 2, 2009 at 8:51 am joel

    I can testify to the power of a young women and testosterone.

    After a good night with a young lady, my batteries are recharged. I am not tired the next morning despite an evening of excess. I get up, work out, and rush around doing all sorts of things. My enthusiasm for life is dramatically increased. During dry spells, I get tired, feel middle aged, eat badly, and veg out. Sound familiar?

    The latter behavior is what “proper society” wishes on me. Screw proper society.

    If I ever get tired of life, I’ll know why.

    BTW, looks like science is finally catching up with the rest of us:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4421983/Women-with-large-chins-are-more-likely-to-cheat.html

    What next? Will they soon discover that great sex is good for your mental outlook?

    For those women who don’t like men. I understand them. Men are aggressive. Society works when society channels male aggression into constructive areas. It can be done. Compare the life lead by Americans today to the lives lead by primitives, say, in the Amazon. Think polio vaccine. Try to imagine any large, important organization run solely by women. Impossible, but it is easy to envision an organization run only by men. Who, for example,maintains the plumbing and provides security for the ladies? Women are almost entirely status quo in their thinking.

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  319. on February 2, 2009 at 9:02 am expats get the hotties

    Yes, Joel, women aren’t required economically.

    I wonder why feminists evaluate worth economically then? It’s a total backfire argument – like bitching at your boyfriend for glancing at other girls. Mentioning the economic worth of housewife activities undermines the worth of non-economic activity.

    There is an underground black market economy, and her name is woman.

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  320. on February 2, 2009 at 9:53 am gig

    if women have been exploited for thousands of years, you truly are inferior, and deserve. If you are not inferior, you have not been exploited

    Agreed

    I’ll make just one correction: women were exploited in the public sphere, but inside the house they have ruled most men, Chinweizu style, since civilization began.

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  321. on February 2, 2009 at 10:07 am kthulah

    Expat, it is impossible for me to have this kind of discussion with someone who knows very little U.S. history. Feminism in its current incarnation didn’t pop up out of nowhere. The radical bent of it exploited a national illness that was exascerbated by labor issues, not gender specific ones. So one can’t really know what is truly wrong with radical feminism without understanding what was wrong with the class system, labor, and immigration policies as they were in the 50’s and before.

    The dark world that suburbanite and wealthy women moaned about didn’t really exist for them, but it did exist for both men and women in the U.S. who were poor.

    So when speculating social engineering strategies to bring back some of the old idealism, one has to be sure that they’re bringing it back for everyone, not just for the rich.

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  322. on February 2, 2009 at 10:11 am T. AKA Ricky Raw

    I’ll make just one correction: women were exploited in the public sphere, but inside the house they have ruled most men, Chinweizu style, since civilization began.

    Chinweizu pretty much argues they control everything, not just inside the house. Hence why he repeats the phrase “The hand that rules the cradle rules the world.” The control the world BY controlling the house.

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  323. on February 2, 2009 at 10:12 am T. AKA Ricky Raw

    Actually, correction, except for poor, lower class women.

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  324. on February 2, 2009 at 10:21 am expats get the hotties

    “I’ll make just one correction: ”

    That’s not a correction. I implied that.

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  325. on February 2, 2009 at 10:23 am PA

    women were exploited in the public sphere

    Depends on what you mean by “exploited.”

    Feminism in its current incarnation didn’t pop up out of nowhere. The radical bent of it exploited a national illness that was exascerbated by labor issues, not gender specific ones.

    You’re right and wrong. Contrary to opinions on both the left and the right, Feminism was not some righteous (or unholy) jaggernaut that marched through the institutions and changed society for the better (or worse) because of a pent-up need or something.

    No. Feminism is primarily a creation of big money and big corporations, who used it as a tool to decouple men from their wives and to double – and thus cheapen — the workforce.

    Feminism’s iconic figures who include mentally ill women like Betty Friedan, cranks like Germaine Greer, opportunists like Gloria Steinem, as well as various malcontents, lesbians and assorted academic eccentrics were nothing but our corporate overlords’ figureheads in this kulturkampf.

    Alone and unaided by the real powers that be, which is upper class men with money, all of those feminists “founding mothers” would have passed from the scene unnoticed like that muttering guy in front of the train station.

    LikeLike


  326. on February 2, 2009 at 10:33 am expats get the hotties

    Some tell me how the html for blogquotes please.

    “kthulah: Expat, it is impossible for me to have this kind of discussion with someone who knows very little U.S. history.”

    What is the term for insulting the person, rather than addressing the argument?

    “Feminism in its current incarnation didn’t pop up out of nowhere.”

    I’m waiting for the signal to noise ration to drop. Waiting for you to say something. Anything. Better than than “I just farted”. Or, “I have a mother”.

    This is your idea of educating me? You insult yourself with your low esteem of others. Imagine a world not populated by retards. Some of the not-retards are men who disagree with you.

    “The radical bent of it exploited a national illness that was exascerbated by labor issues, not gender specific ones. So one can’t really know what is truly wrong with radical feminism without understanding what was wrong with the class system, labor, and immigration policies as they were in the 50’s and before.”

    I doubt that I’m as dense are you are trying to obfuscate me into being. You are just puffing out smoke clouds. Deliberately not concise nor clear. English is a skill of clarity. Use Latin if you want to be of the Elite.

    “The dark world that suburbanite and wealthy women moaned about didn’t really exist for them, but it did exist for both men and women in the U.S. who were poor.

    So when speculating social engineering strategies to bring back some of the old idealism, one has to be sure that they’re bringing it back for everyone, not just for the rich.”

    I still am not walking away with any idea. I have no idea what you are saying, or if you are saying anything.

    LikeLike


  327. on February 2, 2009 at 10:47 am expats get the hotties

    Ktula, you understand that ideas are social weapons (or in women speak, means of social change), but fail to grasp that men are not retarded. When not staring down a tight little piece of nice.

    Your University Speak is a sign of poor education. Talk properly.

    LikeLike


  328. on February 2, 2009 at 11:02 am Wounded Animal

    I’ve imagined how much safer the world would be if men disappeared or if the number of men was greatly reduced. NO more perverts, peeping toms, street harassment, child molesters would decrease sharply.

    Less “imagination.” More intellectual rigor. (Ah, but I’m talking to a woman here.)

    The vast welfare state (a female ideal) is devolutionary, and strips lower class men of their status and enables the so-inclined to act upon their deviant impulses. Further, without the layer upon layer of process generated by the elite (and feminist) lawyer-class, sexual deviants would be killed in flagrante delicto or driven into exile in no-man’s lands.

    Sexual predation under the reign of Black Jesus is going to go UP. Not down.

    LikeLike


  329. on February 2, 2009 at 11:02 am expats get the hotties

    Ktulah, you are trying to give me an emotion, rather than a pictures in my head. If you want to talk to men, you have to learn man speak. Speak in pictures, not feelings.

    LikeLike


  330. on February 2, 2009 at 11:19 am expats get the hotties

    “Wounded Animal: Less “imagination.” More intellectual rigor. (Ah, but I’m talking to a woman here.) **Good start**

    The vast welfare state (a female ideal) **I’m sold. Tell me more** is devolutionary, and strips lower class men of their status **Uh, what? Lower class people need a safety net. Like a mother might. Need will alter your politics** and enables the so-inclined to act upon their deviant impulses. **I’m about to press the scroll down button. Deviant? I’m not sure if that is a real word. I am sure no dictionary would bother to define it, as other than acts that defy churchly authorities. I’d aso love to see a definition of whatever a churchly authority is. As authoritative as no sex before marriage, are they. Never happened. Never will. Never had authority. They had economic and educational power. Never authority. Any more than Fox News. Anyway, devolutionary is a term I can agree with. I bore a retard, and wished him dead. You lost me about lower class people being stripped of status by getting free money. I’d stand in line. Status be dammed. Status is for chumps.

    “Further, without the layer upon layer of process generated by the elite (and feminist) lawyer-class, sexual deviants would be killed in flagrante delicto or driven into exile in no-man’s lands…. Sexual predation under the reign of Black Jesus is going to go UP. Not down.”

    Oh, I get it. None of these ideas belong to you. Parrot.

    LikeLike


  331. on February 2, 2009 at 11:33 am expats get the hotties

    “Speak in pictures, not feelings.” Because men see emotions as subsidiary to the big picture. As well as a good whore can.

    LikeLike


  332. on February 2, 2009 at 11:52 am expats get the hotties

    If you are not trying to recreate the world when you are 22, you are not paying attention. If you are when you are 40, you are not paying attention.

    LikeLike


  333. on February 2, 2009 at 11:53 am PA

    The vast welfare state (a female ideal) … strips lower class men of their status **Uh, what? Lower class people need a safety net.

    More precisely, the welfare state strips productive lower class men, ie. working class and lower middle class men, of their status by meking them seem unnecessary to women.

    LikeLike


  334. on February 2, 2009 at 12:05 pm mandy

    Anon2

    At it’s PC is an emasculating philosophy which makes it feminine in nature. It seeks to use victim hood as a weapon. This is not something self respecting men have ever tended towards, unless they were desperate and powerless. That groups of men wield it against other groups does not change the fact that the underlying philosophy originated in a female (or very effeminate male brain.)

    Kthula & gig

    “The dark world that suburbanite and wealthy women moaned about didn’t really exist for them, but it did exist for both men and women in the U.S. who were poor.”

    Poor Americans still had it better than what passed for middle in some of the world (then and now.)

    “Gig, sorry I didn’t make it more clear. What I meant was so that upper class *women* could preserve their chastity, the lower classes were exploited.”

    “women were exploited in the public sphere,”

    In the past, the double standard was not merely that women were expected to remain chaste in order to maintain honor (meaning reputation & status.) The other side, that no power hungry feminist ever wants to talk about, is what was required of men in order to maintain honor. It is absolutely true men’s chastity did not have any affect on their long term prospects in society. But being labeled a coward would pretty much reduce them to the lowest rung.

    If men ran away from a military battle or refused to fight to maintain their family honor (such as a duel or a blood feud), they would have a hard time in life unless they redeemed themselves in the next confrontation. The last vestiges of such an honor system in the West are limited to the lower rung of criminal classes generally. Even our military has been stripped of this thinking in favor of PC. But you can bet your bottom dollar no Pashtun would run away after someone insulted his family, deflowered his sister or a tribal elder called him to battle.

    So who is truly exploited in this situation? One is expected to keep their legs closed, and just be protected by the men in her life. The other is expected to risk his life and/or end the life of others.

    LikeLike


  335. on February 2, 2009 at 12:14 pm expats get the hotties

    PA kept on explaing his interesting idea: ” The vast welfare state (a female ideal) … strips lower class men of their status **Uh, what? Lower class people need a safety net. More precisely, the welfare state strips productive lower class men, ie. working class and lower middle class men, of their status by meking them seem unnecessary to women.”

    That idea is compelling. I doubt that can include other factors, such as cock, into it though

    Economics is compelling. Lots of things are compelling. All a man needs is one small thing that is compelling, and it needn’t be looks or money.

    Your argument falls down on the simplicity.

    But as far as economics go, good on you for getting a grasp. It’s not the big picture.

    LikeLike


  336. on February 2, 2009 at 12:15 pm aquarius chick w/ tat

    whiskey – I didn’t finish reading everything you wrote but I need to give you more details. 1) my Alpha is a successful DJ. He can have ANY woman he wants but he wants me; 2) I do not look my age at all. if I never state my age, I am always thought to be in my late 20’s early 30’s. I don’t see it, but I don’t argue with it; and 3) I was actually sex-less for 6 years (NO touching at all) which my Alpha knew because we have been friends since childhood. I have watched (and heard about) ALL THE SKANKS and other women (including his baby mamas which he has 3). I know that he has loved 3 women in his life which includes me and none of the baby mamas. And I got him because I’m a woman of quality (in the ways that count). I take very good care of him because I want to. And I have never been in a better relationship and neither has he.

    Not every man wants the silly little girl, my Alpha’s third baby mama is one of those chicks you say he should want as an Alpha. He met, procreated and then bailed on marrying her because he realized he didn’t want to spend the rest of his life having conversations no deeper than “Is it humid? My God, my hair will be a mess all day!” MTV has ruined more than one generation of American girls/women. They are empty-headed and taught that their looks excuse their personality shortcomings.

    I have an Alpha because I have a brain; I love to cook; and very imprtantly, I know how to fight (which means I know how to get my way without an argument). That last point should not be overlooked in it’s importance; if you know when not to say anything, you can have everything as a woman.

    I believe it was Smiler above who called me a barskank. No sweetie darling, never that. I was never a bar chick even in my 30’s. Big nightclubs, not bars. My mother taught me that only loose women hang out in bars and one of the worst beating my father every gave me was at 12 when I was hanging in a bar playing video games. So, trust me I do not hang in bars. And you have no idea what my tat is off, so why do you assume it’s my birth sign? It isn’t and no I will not tell because it’s an identifying mark (my tattoo is unique in the area I live; I work with law enforcement that’s how I know).

    Back to whiskey, if you don’ think I have an Alpha, tell me where you think he fails and we’ll see. Maybe I don’t, according to you. But I think we’ve dealt with him being the most desireable man in the room. So, next.

    And don’t hold back, I want to be challenged.

    LikeLike


  337. on February 2, 2009 at 12:16 pm expats get the hotties

    PA kept on explaing his interesting idea: ” The vast welfare state (a female ideal) … strips lower class men of their status **Uh, what? Lower class people need a safety net. More precisely, the welfare state strips productive lower class men, ie. working class and lower middle class men, of their status by meking them seem unnecessary to women.”

    That idea is compelling. I doubt that can include other factors, such as cock, into it though

    Economics is compelling. Lots of things are compelling. All a man needs is one small thing that is compelling, and it needn’t be looks or money. Pictures of my girfriends alongside the eye torture of picturds of myself would prove that. Considering I’m always broke.

    Your argument falls down on the simplicity.

    But as far as economics go, good on you for getting a grasp. It’s not the big picture.

    LikeLike


  338. on February 2, 2009 at 12:21 pm expats get the hotties

    Picturds was a mis-spelling, but lets see if that will become some new internet meme. Probably.

    LikeLike


  339. on February 2, 2009 at 12:29 pm Obsidian

    Well, after enjoying a glorious weekend of carnal pleasures, I walk in the room to find this.
    OK.

    First off, I have to say that I agree w/Nicole’s comments; the “golden age” that Whiskey looks lovingly at was at best a good period, for SOME PEOPLE. Perhaps he’s never heard of the film Marty? Or knew about a little girlie mag/culture called Playboy? Or knew anything about Bettie Page? Etc?

    And that’s just for starters.

    Its interesting to juxtapose Dave Alex’s comments with Whiskey’s, because when you stand back and just take both of them in (sprinkled in with Welmer’s, Outsider’s comments, etc), it all comes accross like this:

    HOT WOMEN SHOULD SIMPLY ACCEPT AND LOVE ME FOR ME, WITHOUT ME HAVING TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN HAVING A DECENT JOB AND BEING A GOOD GUY.

    Period.

    Its a grand idea and a great sentiment, but the Reality of Life is that Love, and definitely not Attraction, is Unconditional. Its yet another of what Roissy would call a “pretty lie” that we all harbor, and we all ruthlessly break, often without rhyme or reason.

    I want to ask Dave Alex and Whiskey, and anyone else who wants in, to just participate w/me on something here. Let’s look over the list of qualities that Mystery says makes one an Alpha Male:

    NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO “CORRECT” OR “REDEFINE” OR EVEN ARGUE AND BICKER, BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT WHAT AN ALPHA MALE “REALLY MEANS”. YOU’RE WASTING YOUR TIME EVEN IF YOU’RE A TROLL. THIS IS A PICKUP BLOGSITE.

    OK…

    Mystery defines an Alpha Male as having the following traits:

    1. Smiles

    2. Connects with People

    3. Is Well Groomed

    4. Is the Social Center of the Room

    5. Has Confidence

    6. Has a Sense of Humor

    I want to ask Whiskey and Dave Alex:

    Do either of you Men have at least 3 out of the above 6 traits? For Whiskey, how many of his Engineering friends have these traits?

    And if the answer comes out to be very few, how is it possible for any Woman, hot or otherwise, to be attracted to such a truly dull Man? Please explain?

    Comments?

    O

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  340. on February 2, 2009 at 12:33 pm jen

    Obsidian is just here to score with white chicks. He knows it. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be on this site talking about women.

    LikeLike


  341. on February 2, 2009 at 12:43 pm expats get the hotties

    16 year old emboldened to shout out with caps enforced:”NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT ”

    Please do not slap the grey haired monkey until you control enough of the troupe.

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  342. on February 2, 2009 at 12:48 pm expats get the hotties

    I’m not entirely certain if picturds was a mis-spelling. Very womanly of me, isn’t it? Being subconscious?

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  343. on February 2, 2009 at 1:06 pm Obsidian

    Hi Jen,
    Thanks, I think?-but the truth is, that most of the Women I end up being with happen to be Black, not White. Although I have no problem being with White Women, of course. Nor do they have any problem being with me.;)

    Care to address my points above now?

    The Obsidian

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  344. on February 2, 2009 at 1:11 pm expats get the hotties

    It’s immoral to blather, yet a good idea loves a good tinkering.

    If you are not trying to change the world when you are 22, you are not paying attention. If you are trying to change the world when you are 40, you are not paying attention.

    I doubt that aphorism will propogate better then the accidental gene of picturd. Can you improve on it?

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  345. on February 2, 2009 at 1:16 pm Wounded Animal

    expat,

    Welfare and due process (classic female marshmallow fluff ideals) mean that a lot of people are kept alive because the State has made it illegal for normal, heterosexual men to kill them. Their victims victimize in turn, and the cycle is not allowed to end.

    LikeLike


  346. on February 2, 2009 at 1:17 pm Wounded Animal

    Let me clarify “due process” in the sense of all the baggage the Warren Court and the elite post-60’s lawyer class have hung on it.

    LikeLike


  347. on February 2, 2009 at 1:27 pm expats get the hotties

    Wounded – you sound as if you borrow ideas, and don’t know it.

    LikeLike


  348. on February 2, 2009 at 1:43 pm chromosome

    Unless I’m misunderstanding what you are alluding to, you are totally out of touch with how economic need drives prostitution. It doesn’t. Japanese schoolgirls prostitute at high rates. It isn’t merely about need.

    I’m not sure why so many women have the emotional need to see prostitution as some form of slavery. Out of touch, and prude.

    It’s a highly addictive lifestyle. Even prostitutes who strike it rich with a perfect husband often maintain their prostitute ways, on the sly. They are not broken, needy people. They are having fun, and making wads of cash. You are too far away from what you speak.

    Hey expat,got any more info about this?I’ve heard of this before,but as ever, BIG SISTER makes info gathering on topics like these nearly impossible.

    LikeLike


  349. on February 2, 2009 at 1:47 pm chromosome

    One more thing,how do you get html tags to stop italicizing?

    LikeLike


  350. on February 2, 2009 at 1:52 pm Wounded Animal

    expats,

    No. I don’t read the New York Times.

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  351. on February 2, 2009 at 2:25 pm Obsidian

    Wounded,
    Question: what does the State have to do w/you smiling when you enter a roomfull of people, man? Or being well-groomed? Or connecting with people? Or having a sense of humor? How can the State prevent you from doing these things? Please explain?

    Thanks.

    O

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  352. on February 2, 2009 at 2:25 pm Comment_Comments

    People seem to be getting REALLY REALLY lazy on seperating the stuff they quote from what they are actually saying.

    Please understand, some people don’t look, AT ALL, at graphics.

    Italicizing will miss them, even big lines of:
    ************************************
    will be ignored.

    Try to ALWAYS have a written statement that you are quoting someone else. Like:
    [Whoever] said:
    Italics, ****, whatever

    [End Quote]

    Really, some people are verbal. Graphics go right past them. Be nice and put it in words.Ok?

    LikeLike


  353. on February 2, 2009 at 2:39 pm Zarathustra

    One more thing,how do you get html tags to stop italicizing?

    Look here. Put the tag with the backslash after the block of text you wish to italicize.

    LikeLike


  354. on February 2, 2009 at 2:46 pm PA

    I have no idea what Comment2 just said. But if he’s saying that people should clearly separate someone else’s quoted text from their own commentary, I’m for it.

    The thick lines, stars, dashes, make a comment look incoherent and I don’t even read it. Try this:

    XblockquoteX
    some text you’r quoting, blah blah
    X/blockquoteX

    And then write your own comments.

    Except instead of writing the “X” around “blockquote,” use the pointy brackets just to the right of “M” on your keyboard.

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  355. on February 2, 2009 at 3:47 pm Wounded Animal

    Obsidian,

    I was responding to a post by Chic Noir in which she hypothesized that the world would be safer with less men, and she went on to list such deviant activities as pedophilia, rape, etc. In fact, it would be safer without the welfare state, which subsidizes violent, predatory lifestyles and actually criminalizes the defense of women and children by non-pathological heterosexual men. Cops are mostly just there to zip up body bags and screw up the crime scene. Of course, police forces might have added potency if we could bring back minimum height and weight requirements for law enforcement. (Lawsuits, by women of course, resulted in their abolition.)

    I can write slower with smaller words if you’re having trouble keeping up.

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  356. on February 2, 2009 at 3:54 pm chic noir

    expats get the hotties
    Some tell me how the html for blogquotes please.

    blah blah blah

    Put an lower case “i” inside of the first set of brackets. Then put another “i” inside of the second set of brackets. Make sure you place the second “i” behind the “/” found inside the second set of brackets.

    LikeLike


  357. on February 2, 2009 at 4:03 pm chic noir

    wounded animalThe vast welfare state (a female ideal) is devolutionary, and strips lower class men of their status and enables the so-inclined to act upon their deviant impulses.

    Deviant impulses that are found in far fewer women.

    LikeLike


  358. on February 2, 2009 at 4:06 pm kthulah

    Expat, I wasn’t trying to insult you. I just figured you weren’t from the U.S. and that was why you didn’t understand the phosphorus thing.

    So here’s a quickie in Manian:

    Back in the day, there was an influx of poor eastern European immigrants to the U.S. They had little choice but to live in crap conditions and work in factories which, at the time, weren’t very well regulated. People used to have to make matches by hand, and part of that was dipping a stick of wood into a chemical paste and solution that contained phosphorus and other nasty toxins. This often led to health problems and an untimely death.

    Faced with the choice between that and a sugardaddy who has a thing for blondes, who will never marry you, but will pay your and your family’s bills…well, you get the idea.

    Mandy, to say that these people lived better than any middle class ever is extremely naive…or disturbingly dismissive. For the most part, they may have been better off than they would have been had they stayed where they were (dead) but barely so…and many, many of them did indeed die early anyway.

    PA, who funded feminism is a separate issue from why it took hold in society at such an extreme level. The fact is that a critical mass of the population knew that something was wrong with their being constantly crapped on, and sought ways to alleviate their suffering.

    Apparently this expectation of honor from men didn’t hold up against the economic and social reality that if you treat a man like an animal, he will behave like one. Rather than solve that problem (the treating men like animals) they were blamed for creating the situation they were forced to survive in.

    The misandrist level of feminism was allowed to take hold because of the idea that men could not be depended on. What’s screwed up is that nobody can be depended on as a gender. In a screwed up economic situation, women are just as messed up as men, but if one side can be convinced to blame the other, that’s a nice distraction from the real problem which is, as it has always been, the rich mercilessly exploiting the poor.

    Perhaps in time, like slavery, this will phase out in favor of more humane and efficient ways of building economies. One can hope…

    LikeLike


  359. on February 2, 2009 at 4:08 pm Chuck

    Obsidian:

    “what does the State have to do w/you smiling when you enter a roomfull of people, man? Or being well-groomed? Or connecting with people? Or having a sense of humor? How can the State prevent you from doing these things? Please explain?”

    The state obviously has nothing to do with any of these, unless, of course, you live in the state of Oklahoma, in which case you wouldn’t smile or be well-groomed.

    A welfare state that replaces the need for a man, husband, or father does allow a woman to think that smiling or flirting is creepy or unacceptable male behavior. In other words, a welfare state in which a woman’s options for provider are expanded outside the bounds of men allows her to reject the advances of many more men that in a previous age.

    LikeLike


  360. on February 2, 2009 at 4:47 pm Michael Blowhard

    Whiskey — You’re citing a couple of valid facts as proof for something entirely unrelated. You’re asserting 1) The changeover from old-style Hollywood to new-style conglomerate ownership has been a big deal. TRUE. 2) The fact that, starting in the ’60s and ’70s, going into showbiz became something respectable people started doing (hence, Ivy types started flooding into the biz). TRUE.

    But you’re trying to conclude from these facts that 3) Jews aren’t much present in Hollywood and don’t have much power there.

    How exactly do you get from 1 and 2 to 3?

    Are you really claiming that a youngdude could set out to have a Hollywood career and NOT be struck by the number of Jewish people — successful, influential, and otherwise — that he’ll encounter? Joel Stein is laughing at you. Everyone I’ve ever met who has spent five minutes exploring the moviebiz is chuckling at you.

    LikeLike


  361. on February 2, 2009 at 5:01 pm Zarathustra

    Italics:
    <i>What you want italicized.</i>

    Bold:
    <b>What you want bolded.</b>

    Quote:
    <blockquote>What you want quoted.</blockquote>

    LikeLike


  362. on February 2, 2009 at 5:06 pm Obsidian

    Yes Chuck, Wounded, I’m hip to the Horrors of the Welfare State, this, that, etc. Fair enough, all well and good. But what does any of that have to do with you being the best possible you that you can be when going out to potentially meet some Ladies? I mean, there’s this tone among quite a few guys here, that they can’t do *anything* about their lot in life, which stands in direct opposition to any Conservative stance that im aware of.

    The great thing about Game is that it gives the *individual* tools, methods and insights to assist him in meeting his goals on the dating scene, whatever they may be. One would think that such info would be treated like a Godsend by many of the voices here, but instead its viewed akin to the Devil Incarnate.

    I just don’t hear any discussion at all from a lot of guys here about how they can improve their own lives; rather, just a long lament about the passing of an era. In many ways, it’s sad.

    The larger stuff Chuck’s speaking to, will require large programmatic and public policy change, buttressed by a formidable grass roots organization or a number of such outfits. At present, insofar as (White) Males are concerned, there exist only a small few on that score.

    I’m all for discussing things on a wider scale, none of us are islands unto ourselves. But at some point you have to tackle the world as you find it, not as you want to be. None of this will help you find even a modicum of happiness, indeed, if anything it will squash it.

    On the other hand, Game will if nothing else, help you get laid. A lot.

    Not bad.

    Chuck, Wounded, question: how many of those Alpha Male traits do either of you currently possess?

    Holla

    The Obsidian

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  363. on February 2, 2009 at 5:12 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ Michael Blowhard – You’ll also be struck by the number of Jews in finance, medicine, the law, academia… really any respectable profession that requires intelligence. It’s because we have big brains.

    LikeLike


  364. on February 2, 2009 at 5:14 pm Michael Blowhard

    Seeking Alpha — Indeed. And a lot of them/you seem to have a special knack (and a taste) for showbiz too.

    LikeLike


  365. on February 2, 2009 at 5:17 pm Seeking Alpha

    Moreso than in the other professions I mentioned?

    LikeLike


  366. on February 2, 2009 at 5:32 pm Chuck

    Obsidian:

    “But what does any of that have to do with you being the best possible you that you can be when going out to potentially meet some Ladies?”

    Nothing. Since we must operate under our current system in the short-run, we can only put our best foot forward with the ladies. I’m not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that you and Wounded were making separate points I think.

    As far as:

    1. Smiles

    2. Connects with People

    3. Is Well Groomed

    4. Is the Social Center of the Room

    5. Has Confidence

    6. Has a Sense of Humor

    On my best days I possess all 6. 4 and 5 ebb and flow depending on my mood and the scene. I try to maintain 1,2,3, and 6 at all times.

    LikeLike


  367. on February 2, 2009 at 5:37 pm Anonymous

    NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO “CORRECT” OR “REDEFINE” OR EVEN ARGUE AND BICKER, BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT WHAT AN ALPHA MALE “REALLY MEANS”. YOU’RE WASTING YOUR TIME EVEN IF YOU’RE A TROLL. THIS IS A PICKUP BLOGSITE.

    “Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.”

    — Marcus Aurelius

    LikeLike


  368. on February 2, 2009 at 5:51 pm Obsidian

    Yo Chuck,
    Yea, I think if guys simply focused on Mystety’s list here, they’d be alrite. No, in and of itself it might now net you HB10s all the time, but you definitely will not be working it out w/the Hand on Saturday night either.

    O

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  369. on February 2, 2009 at 5:57 pm Wounded Animal

    All 6 to varying degrees, which will ebb and flow depending on my mood, physical condition, personal life, etc.

    As pointed out, I was addressing a separate issue raised by one of the sistahood.

    LikeLike


  370. on February 2, 2009 at 7:06 pm Comment_Verbal_Visual_Kinetic

    PA said:


    I have no idea what Comment2 just said. But if he’s saying that people should clearly separate someone else’s quoted text from their own commentary, I’m for it.

    Some people think more visually, others more audio, and others more kinetically.

    You can divide these people up pretty fast by having them describe something that happened.

    In any case, the verbal/audio crowd can ‘miss’ visual cues a lot easier than the visual crowd. They are, however, better at verbal stuff. That is why we call them audio. So by adding a written “Quote Started”/”Quote Ended” you make sure the verbal people don’t get confused.

    Verbal people have ignored italics in this very thread, and in threads before they have ignored my, admittedly annoying,
    *********

    So now I’m adding in verbal “Quote Started”/”Quote Ended”.

    This is my take on what happened. Maybe I’m just hallucinating.

    LikeLike


  371. on February 2, 2009 at 9:01 pm David Alexander

    Feminism is primarily a creation of big money and big corporations, who used it as a tool to decouple men from their wives and to double – and thus cheapen — the workforce.

    I fail to see the downside in having my potential wife earn an income large enough to allow her to have her own spending money instead of taking my money to buy stuff that she wants.

    More precisely, the welfare state strips productive lower class men, ie. working class and lower middle class men, of their status by meking them seem unnecessary to women.

    I’d argue that without welfare, you’d end up with a situation where the deindustrialization of unskilled labour creates a pool of men who are unskilled and stuck working in low paying service jobs. The value of these men were simply going to decrease as easy, high-paying, unionized unskilled factory jobs disappeared. Eventually, you do come to the point where given the choice between a low-paying beta male potential husband and a low-paying drug dealer, the drug dealer will win over the female, due to his bad boy persona and higher potential for higher earnings.

    Do either of you Men have at least 3 out of the above 6 traits?

    1) Smiles – I tend to smile quite a bit admittedly.
    2) Connects with People – Barely.
    3) Is Well Groomed – I bathe daily, exfoliate, shave infrequently, and use cologne, so no.
    4) Is the Social Center of the Room – No, I hide in the shadows and corners and lurk in the realms of private conversation.
    5) Has Confidence – No.
    6) Has a Sense of Humor – Enough to qualify as a human.

    And if the answer comes out to be very few, how is it possible for any Woman, hot or otherwise, to be attracted to such a truly dull Man?

    Well, obviously, women wouldn’t be attracted to me or any other man with dull characteristics, so that leaves behind the old standby of “he has money/good job/future prospects”.

    You’ll also be struck by the number of Jews in finance, medicine, the law, academia

    Remember kids, marrying a Jew is your ticket to success. 😛

    LikeLike


  372. on February 2, 2009 at 9:13 pm expats get the hotties

    “Hey expat,got any more info about this?…”

    Sure. Read the readers submissions on http://www.stickmanbangkok.com . Thousands of stories of men painfully coming to grips with the nature of female.

    LikeLike


  373. on February 2, 2009 at 9:27 pm expats get the hotties

    Faced with the choice between that and a sugardaddy who has a thing for blondes, who will never marry you, but will pay your and your family’s bills…well, you get the idea.

    Ya, NOW I get the idea. I hope you were drinking the first time you tried to explain, as otherwise there is little excuse for assuming I could read your mind.

    And I still disagree with your premise. Using a man for economic options doesn’t make you a slave. It makes you human. There are more examples of men inhaling bad vapors for pussy than there are women inhaling for the money attached to cock.

    LikeLike


  374. on February 2, 2009 at 9:42 pm chic noir

    lolrof @ Comment_Verbal_Visual_Kinetic

    LikeLike


  375. on February 2, 2009 at 9:45 pm expats get the hotties

    A welfare state that replaces the need for a man, husband, or father does allow a woman to think that smiling or flirting is creepy or unacceptable male behavior. In other words, a welfare state in which a woman’s options for provider are expanded outside the bounds of men allows her to reject the advances of many more men that in a previous age.

    For proof, travel to countries where the major female profession remains motherhood. You’ll see slim fit and flirty women. Boring as hell for any kind of conversation, but trade offs are there to be traded.

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  376. on February 2, 2009 at 10:01 pm expats get the hotties

    Nothing. Since we must operate under our current system in the short-run, …

    Wrong. You can always operate under a different system. For example, you could become an expat.

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  377. on February 2, 2009 at 10:03 pm kthulah

    Well, you’ll have to forgive us, expat, for all not being hot enough to get paid as much for sucking cock as dipping matchsticks.

    LikeLike


  378. on February 2, 2009 at 10:25 pm expats get the hotties

    Kthulah, I often have a difficult time getting your point. Perhaps I’m being over polite assuming that you have one. Seems to me your point is that women are victims. I’ve addressed that directly, in a few different ways. I doubt any thing I or anyone else could say would pry you away from your cherished victimhood.

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  379. on February 2, 2009 at 10:53 pm Chuck

    David:

    “I’d argue that without welfare, you’d end up with a situation where the deindustrialization of unskilled labour creates a pool of men who are unskilled and stuck working in low paying service jobs.”

    Without welfare, corporate and individual, this country’s tax receipts could be allowed to decline substantially. Freeing up individuals’ and businesses’ capital would allow for the creation of new technologies and businesses that would employ those that you believe would be relegated to lower service industries.
    New businesses needing skilled workers would increase the skill level in aggregate of all employees.

    Combined with the rent-seeking problem welfare creates, the de-socialization of individuals, through bringing them up in the same fashion as wards of the state, and you create a whole generation that is ok working in the lower service industries.

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  380. on February 2, 2009 at 11:13 pm Chuck

    Expat:

    “Wrong. You can always operate under a different system. For example, you could become an expat.”

    I’m trying man, but I don’t look good in skinny-ass jeans or soccer shirts.

    Kthluah:

    “Well, you’ll have to forgive us, blah blah yada yada whatever.”

    Back under the bridge troll. Go on, you heard me.

    LikeLike


  381. on February 3, 2009 at 1:33 am January 2009 BOTM Winner « Roissy in DC

    […] about all the guys she was banging only to be rewarded by him with a garish princess wedding. The January 2009 BOTM Winner and finalist for the 2009 Beta Of The Year is Mr. Kenealy, AKA Mr. “Put a hit on me but […]

    LikeLike


  382. on February 3, 2009 at 8:30 am kthulah

    Chuck, man your own bridge.

    Err…grow up and then man your own bridge.

    Expat, if you’re seeing “women are the victims” in my posts then either you are as illiterate as you thought I was assuming that you were, or you’re acting stupid on purpose.

    LikeLike


  383. on February 3, 2009 at 9:11 am Obsidian

    Dave Alex, Chuck, Wounded,
    Thanks for taking the time out to answer my question wrt Mystery’s list of “Alpha Male” traits. I think its hugely important, because at the end of the day, the only person you have any direct control over is YOU. You can make a choice to improve your own life, or not, and NO ONE can do a darned thing to stop you, either.

    The other reason why I focused on this basic list is because it is, well, basic. It’s something *anyone*, including Dave Alex, *can do*. All is needed is just a bit of effort.

    Now of course, Dave Alex will trot out the usual litany of reasons, rationalizations and so forth as to why he can’t or won’t, or should not, actually *do* anything to improve his life on this score. But I’ve been giving some thought to the Curious Case of David Alexander, and if it please the Forum, I’ll be back later today to layout my case.

    But for now, my point is simply that it does no Man here no good at all to constantly harp on things you have absolutely no control over. Doesn’t it make more sense to attempt to work on those areas of life where you at the very least, have a chance for success?

    Every Man reading this can acquire the traits listen above. Every one of em.

    Holla

    The Obsidian

    LikeLike


  384. on February 3, 2009 at 10:49 am Hot spring mama

    Someone above posted this already, but I thought I was so horrified by this lady I wanted to post it again!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/fashion/11love.html?_r=1&sq=russian%20lev&st=cse&scp=3&pagewanted=all

    After making it through the article (barely) I wanted to punch this women in the face, and the guy, for being so smug. She gives all women a bad name!

    LikeLike


  385. on February 3, 2009 at 11:09 am Hot spring mama

    Oh also, in reference to #3, maybe the guy has a sexual fetish/ S & M type thing going on- you know, fantasy almost played out.

    LikeLike



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