Even though I’ve beaten the odds and had success with online game the few times I’ve ventured onto the internet to score pussy, I don’t recommend it. For most guys, the odds are too long, and the playing field too tilted in favor of women, mostly fat BBBWs. Examining the dynamics with cold logic will lead to the conclusion that online dating is futile.
The one big advantage of online dating is convenience. You can mass approach a hundred women while sitting in your underwear in your squalid apartment. Perfect for the lazy man who can’t be bothered to make himself presentable for the bar. If you want to spend a few minutes each week trying online game, you’ll need a strategy. Approaching girls online is not much different than approaching them in the flesh. The game remains the same. Following is an example of successful online game I have used. Don’t copy/paste this into your next email. This is a template only, and will give you an idea of the flow and attitude you need to project in your emails.
Note: I only answer W4Ms that have pics included. I know a guy who posts a profile in M4W and has some success with it, but I find that method too haphazard. I can’t imagine sifting through 100 responses from moocows to get to the one or two gems in the bunch.
Her original email paraphrased:
I’m looking for a [insert suite of alpha traits]. You must be [insert more alpha traits]. I’d like to go out this weekend with a man who knows what he wants in life. Suggest a restaurant or a movie and let’s get together. Pic a must.
[soft focus pic of a cute chick]
My response (with pic):
Subject line:
It’s interesting that your…
I’ve captured her attention with a leading subject header.
photo looks like a perfume ad from a magazine.
Neg. She can’t tell if this is a compliment or a put-down. That is the beauty of the neg.
movies are for couples who don’t mind not talking with each other for two hours. restaurants are anhedonic. all that food gets in the way of the romantic vibe.
Reframe. I’m not letting her lead the interaction, and I’m challenging her demands. Also, I threw in one five dollar word — anhedonic — to establish intellectual dominance. This is sexy to girls in measured doses. Just don’t go overboard and nerd out like you’re an epileptic thesaurus. Rule of thumb is one impressive word embedded in a casual streetwise conversation. Contrast is king.
now a chill lounge draped in crimson curtains and the soothing sounds of jazz over martinis… that hits the mark.
You must balance the negative with the positive. After snubbing her lame suggestions, I offered a more enticing alternative. This is where you will limber up your brain and write descriptively, lushly. You want her picturing the scene in her mind, and feeling the ambience.
We will meet at XXXX tomorrow night, 10pm.
Lead, pig!
She responded to this within a half hour, agreeing with my choice of venue. She also included her height and weight (5’7″, 108 lbs. Perfect.) but not a second photo. A 30 minute turnaround response rate is excellent for online game. Most girls will reply two days later, if they’re so inclined. In her next email, she asked for my “basic stats”. I gave her a brief physical description, followed by silliness.
occupation: international man of mystery
favorite color: green
ideal woman: golddigger
We set a time to meet, but I flaked. I had another date that night with a girl whose looks I was confident about, since I met her in real life. Options = freedom. Also, I’ve found that it’s a fat red flag when a girl doesn’t follow-up her initial photo with another photo of herself. This usually means that out of all the thousands of pictures taken of her, she only has one that shows her in a good light. Unfortunately, on a face-to-face date, you will be seeing her from multiple angles.
Maxim #55: If she’s hot, why would she bother with online dating?
because she is an attention whore who wants to have male attention even when she is in her underwear in her squalid appartment?
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I have been under the impression in recent times that tons of people are “online dating”.
Look around at the couples in any “hip” (I use that term loosely) bar/ restaurant these days. They all seem like they must have met online.
I don’t doubt the effectiveness though.
Although, I would never do it, I am from the old-school.
– MPM
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Back about 7-8 years ago I was single there was a huge boom in the U.S. for Eastern European aupairs and work-study students.
Especially au pairs. Every yuppie family from Virginia to Boston just had to have an aupair as a status symbol. Good for me, as I scored tons of dates off meeting these girls on their country-specific Instant Messaging programs.
Mind you, most of those girls were homesick, so they’d always have their accounts turned on to keep in touch with friends and family, and to meet other compatriots Stateside. Their public profiles typically showed their age and city or state where they are located. The memories of sweet scavenger hunts!
To make a long story short, I was just learning Game during that time, and I figured out the best way to hook a girl into an I.M. chat: just say “hello.” Nothing else until (if) she wrote back. Most did.
No long introductions, certainly not “do you wanna I.M.” or anything like that. The “hello” was just enough to intrigue them, and was unobtrusive and safe-sounding enough for them to act on their curiosity and respond.
The second I.M.’ing trick I learned: once we’d exchange a few texts, and the vibes are good, the idea of exchanging photos came up. When this happens, I asked her to send her photo first. Trust me, it works.
Out of about 200 girls I cold-I.M.’ed, close to 90% sent me their photos first. Most would not do so readily. Some absolutely insisted that they will never send some guy their photo first.
But I’d stonewall. With a smile and pleasant disposition, of course. I’d type back: “that’s too bad, it feels like we had a good thing going for a bit.”
She’d go: “We can still have something nice, but you need to send me your pic.”
Me: “Sorry, I never send my photo first. It’s kind of my thing. But I’ll send you mine as soon as I get yours, I promise.”
Her: “are you old and ugly, or something?”
Me: “No, like my profile says, I’m 30. And I’m good looking.”
This could go on for a while. But the longer it went on, the more these girls were insanely intrigued with this cocky-funny, intelligent sounding character who wasn’t eager to please.
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If she’s hot, why would she bother with online dating?
She works in a female dominated profession and doesn’t like meeting guys at bars. Online dating sites are full of elementary school teachers, nurses, and daycare workers.
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Though online dating works best for getting 7s and 8s. For 9s and 10s, you are best to approach in person.
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She works in a female dominated profession and doesn’t like meeting guys at bars. Online dating sites are full of elementary school teachers, nurses, and daycare workers.
I think this is true as well. And it must be a rather unpleasant surprise to hit the late 20s and face the cold reality of not getting attention anywhere like the early to mid 20s. Going online makes sense for a lot of them, both attention/status – whores and higher quality girls.
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I don’t agree that online dating is futile. I have met in person with several 8+ women from Match.com.
But then again, I am a good looking man with an impressive career, and my weakness is that my Game still intermittently goes Beta. Thus, I don’t get filterd out from my online profile alone (that happens later when I make a provider Beta error).
Now, too many guys use Online dating as a substitute for being able to do in-person approaches. This is BAD. There is NO substitute for being able to do in-person approaches. Online game can be a complementary addition to in-person game, but CANNOT be a full substitute.
So online is an important and valuable compliment to solid in-person game.
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Yeah, about two reasons why an attractive woman might go for the online option:
a) profession/time reasons/hates clubs
b) for some reason (oppressive/religious family? married?), she has little freedom, so must do things in a clandestine manner.
She’s probably much more likely to be unattractive or psycho, though.
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I am a good looking man with an impressive career
Looks are much more important for online dating. A shy, but good looking guy can gain a lot of confidence from using online sites.
If you are an arty guy online is also a good place to meet chicks with similar interests.
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She works in a female dominated profession and doesn’t like meeting guys at bars. Online dating sites are full of elementary school teachers, nurses, and daycare workers.
Yep. I’ve dated two girls I met online – one was an elementary teacher, and one a nurse. Both were sweet as can be.
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I’ve just gotten into this a few weeks ago. My main piece of advice is watch out for pictures
A sort-of-chubby girl will put up the 2-3 pictures she has where she looks kinda OK. If you’re a young guy like me, get them to add you on facebook asap, where you can do a more thorough eval of their hotness. You can figure out a lot about a chick from FB too, and hopefully your profile is well-designed to make her wet.
Also, I agree with whoever said that while 7-8’s are abundant, 9’s and 10’s are less so. And the one’s that do exist probably get 100’s of messages a day. Much easier to find them on the street or in clubs. plenty of fish.com has gotten me 3 dates with cute and cool 7-8’s over the past week, all of whom I am seeing again. Strongly recommended.
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I find that at this point, Online is very mainstream. When any girl is not dating anyone, they will post an online profile. So it is no longer selecting only certain niches of people.
It is true that only women 26 and higher are online. Those who are 22-25 are not.
On match.com, there are literally over 5,000 women within a 50-mile radius of me, aged between 26 and 30. There are another 5000 between 31 and 34. As far as being attractive or not, I think it mirrors the same percentages as the general population. Certainly not worse. So the top 10% is still 500 women.
Also, online is THE best way to find a hot (8.5 to 9) single mom, who just doesn’t have time to go out and have men approach her. Online is one of the few avenues they have left.
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Nowadays, many people meet online, but it’s kind of old school to be doing it at personals sites. It’s much better at networking sites that have a personals area or “online hangouts” that have no personals area at all. Basically it’s the same as offline…find people with common interests, and if you run across someone you like, explore it further.
I’ve met quite a few guys from online, but only two have been worth the gas. Those are my second husband and my protege. So it’s worth exploring so long as one doesn’t expect much from the majority. If one is just looking for casual sex though, they’ll find alot of that. Girls who wouldn’t normally make themselves available offline in a face to face meeting will slut it up online…even and probably especially with other women, and kinky people. Butch Lesbians clean up online. So do male Doms.
So if a guy is doing the personals thing, I’d recommend ramping up one’s kink factor…and please don’t take Gay photos or use Gay language to attract women.
No photos of you in a towel, your underwear, or anything you’ve ever seen a Gay model do.
No photos of you hugging or holding one specific guy. Group shots are only okay if you would win a “spot the alpha”.
No photos that don’t include your face. Body-only shots say, “I want you to ram me with a dildo, and hard.”
No ass shots. No ass crack shots. Straight women who aren’t into strap ons do not want to see your butt.
No photos of just your penis. Women aren’t into the glory hole thing, so we don’t want that view. Penis only shots say, “I do it with guys alot.”
…which is fine if you’re trying to attract a couple or a woman who likes to strap on, or prefers bi males, but not otherwise.
Do not put anything saying you want casual sex in a vanilla fashion. No fwb, no just for fun, no one night stands. Say something like if you’re worth it or if we’ll get along…
If you do only want to do one nighter’s please be offering something she can’t get from her vibrator. Go kinky. At least say you’re good with your hands. Women are more likely to go for it just for the experience if they’re sure it’ll be a memorable one.
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Also, you may not be as successful if you aren’t an alpha “on paper” i.e. good looking and doing well career-wise. Short, ugly, poor guys can be successful with women if they have great game, but I doubt you can cram enough charm into an online interaction to make up for the lacking fundamentals.
Cheers
Zdeno
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Zdeno,
Yes. Online helps guys who are good on paper but Beta in game.
Guys who are alpha in game, but ugly online have no need for online anyway.
The other great thing about online game is that the woman wrote up a profile about herself. The has given away many buttons you can subtly push during the comfort/rapport phase. This really is a goldmine if you can get her to meet you in person.
Also, studying a large number of profiles on match.com gives you a sizable dataset to see what patterns you can find across women in this age group :
1) The one thing they openly mention is that they want HEIGHT in a man. They will bluntly state that the man has to be 3 inches or more than her, or that men below 5’10” need not reply. This is the only physical trait that they mention.
2) Quite a few women who are 33 or older will, under the ‘want kids’ field, still reply as ‘someday’. I think a lot of women still don’t realize that fertility starts to fall slowly after 30, and then really quickly after 35. There seems to be a lack of biological knowledge here.
3) Racism : In this age of Obama, 90% of single women support him, BUT it is great to qualify a woman on whether she is ‘progressive’ enough to date a man of a different race. This cognitive dissonance fry’s their circuits. They consider themselves hugely enlightened and progressive, yet become visibly uncomfortable under a ‘Who is more racist, women or men?’ sort of banter question.
Some women, in their profile, will, however, openly list the races they seek, and include Asians, Blacks, etc. in that list. These tend to be corporate employees, doctors, or schoolteachers.
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it is great to qualify a woman on whether she is ‘progressive’ enough to date a man of a different race.
It’s a bad idea if you yourself aren’t “progressive,” unless you’re just completly messing with her.
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Most men who study game are far too logical to be left-wing. Chicks consider themselves ‘progressive’ only out of a fashion/groupthink motiviation. They have no interest in logical debate about even the simplest of political issues.
The point is, however, that a chick is a huge Obama cultist, while still not willing date a man of color. This can be turned into a neg, a qualifying statement, or a topic for banter.
“You don’t really support Obama if you would not date a young Obama if you had met him. I thought you were progressive…”
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“If she’s hot, why would she bother with online dating?”
I had several successes back in 98-2003 from online hook-ups. If you consider a “5” who likes it nice and dirty a success, there is a lot of it online.
You will not meet 9’s and 10’s online much. I only seen a couple of profiles and pictures of truly hot women. Mabye things have changed, I dont know.
There were plenty of 4’s thru 6’s though, and some of them had big tits and/or great legs and ass. There were a few 7’s. 8’s were pretty rare, but there were some.
THIS IS WHAT YOU GET ONLINE FOR THE MOST PART THOUGH:
1) OLDER WOMEN IN THEIR LATE 20’s-thru-early 40’s.
2) Divorced women who are stuck with their kid(s), thus cannot go out at night very often.
2) Women slumming through the week (only go out to bars on the weekends), hoping to meet some guy with money*
3) Broke chicks who dont have the money to pay cover charges at bars
4)Women looking for a fuckbuddy with the looks and equipment she craves (Size queens and muscle-worshippers…………oft will ask for pictures of your dick with a tape measure, etc).
5) Gold-diggers* (see number 2)
6)Women who dont have any other single gal pals, and dont want to go to bars “alone”.
7)Cheating wives looking for something on the side, but cannot safely get out to bars without being caught.
The gold-diggers will offer up some financial info about themselves in order to ask you financial info about yourself. They will try and find out how much equity you have in your house or if its paid off yet, how your retirement plan is doing lately, et cetera. If the woman has been divorced and is recieving child support and some other man is still having to pay some of her bills, she knows exactly how well a marriage can benefit her financially if she decides to divorce you later (probably had already decided that before walking down the aisle&&&), and wants to know all about your financial status before bothering fucking with you. SOME OF THESE WILL ATTEMPT TO FERRET OUT THIS INFO BEFORE YOUR FIRST FACE-TO-FACE. If you have dinner out with them, you will be paying for everything also, at the worst she can get a couple of nice free meals a week by doing this from assorted guys.
&&&&—-I hope more men become aware that there are a LOT of women out there who will fake love for a man during “courtship” with the full intent of divorcing him later, often after having a kid, for the monetary windfall it will produce for her in court. These women find out what they would get, AND THEN DECIDE to pursue the relationship with ass-raping you in court AS THE GOAL. She can ferret out the guys with money much easier online than in bars.
I’ll never forget one personal ad I read from a woman in Atlanta in the late 90s. She was a 10 that was online. Really hot, looked Italian or Greek. She “preferred not to state” her income, and had a bachelors degree in “liberal arts”. She wanted a man who made “at least $100,000”. This was the late 90’s. Pure gold-digger, albeit a beautiful one. I wondered then how much some schmuck would lose to this woman in court about two-to-three years and a kid (or two) down the line.
All this stated, I had some fun online and hooked up with some women who became friends and still are. I also paid for a few meaningless dinners and a few movies (I believed in NEVER paying for a movie unless it was one that YOU wanted to see for YOURSELF). There is something to be said for being able to save the gas money, the cover charge money, and the drink money and the TIME it takes to trawl the bars. You avoid hangovers through the week, and get in bed at a reasonable time also. Their certainly is a laziness dividend of getting to sit there in a T-shirt and sweatpants with your laundry going and the dishwasher running, watching TV over your shoulder while chatting up the potential sex-buddies (friends with benefits was what I was primarily after) on several instant messaging screens at one time. This is especially so if you can type fast, and I could type pretty fast for a guy.
The opportunities for “game” would certainly be less however. Your pictures (I used a beach shot for the body with sunglasses on, a head shot for the face, and a nude) are pretty much your currency online. The nude didn’t inlcude my face. It was pretty much looks only if you sent a email to them and wanted a response. Either they liked your profile and your pictures or they didn’t. I was a work-out fanatic with a six pack back then so it was pretty good to me. I also have a nice schlong and a few of them told me thats why they ever went out with me (in other words they didn’t like my face and I didn’t have enough money, but they wanted a fuckbuddy). However, there is ONE THING that is working to your advantage. She is THERE. There is none of that “Im out here with friends”, “I have a boyfriend”, “Its a bachelorrette party”, “Im waiting on a guy” stuff you might get from women in bars. They have a profile or they have responded to yours, this cut the amount of BS way down.
I did get with a couple (hell, Im thinking of three off the top of my head) psychos though. Endless calls, threats, you name it. Having a cop live with you with a real police car was a benefit in its own way where that was concerned, but if I were a single guy in an apartment with a unprotected automobile (the old sugar-in-the-gas tank trick), I’d have worried a little more about that. One might run into a higher-than-normal ratio of psycho-women online than at the bars. That is something to be aware of.
That about covers it.
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online dating is a lot easier in Canada. More hotties up here, and they are easier to meet online, due to high bitch shields in person.
I was dating this hot girl (girl A) i met on lavalife. I was gonna dump her, cuz she was a raving bitch, but held on for a while. in the mean time i setup a date w a hottie (girl B, a harvard educated doctor, true story).
text from girl A: wanna go for dinner sat nite?
el chief: sure
girl A: but don’t you have a date with my girlfriend (girl B) on saturday nite?
el chief: RUH ROH!
yup, they were friends. it wasn’t a setup, just bad, bad luck
so be careful out there, players!
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Tood wrote:
“Most men who study game are far too logical to be left-wing. Chicks consider themselves ‘progressive’ only out of a fashion/groupthink motiviation”
THANK YOU TOOD. Thats exactly something Ive been saying to friends and co-workers to years. PC is just status mongering amongst whiterpeople and victimization-mongering amongst others. No rational person really thinks utter socialism would produce nothing but a lazy, uninventive populace. What advances are ever discovered by communist “paradises” that have littered history? Nada. A market’s most brutal hard edges can be somewhat restrainted by some sensible regulation (like Wall Street had until the nineties), other than that…………………capitalism is the engine of wealth-creation the world around.
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We will meet at XXXX tomorrow night, 10pm.
My first thought is, no we will NOT. Very sad interchange, roissy. Good grief. So unnatural sounding; like you! ><;
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Several years ago as a freshman in college, I started chatting up a girl online. We exchanged emails for a day or two and decided to take it to the next level, and meet at her apartment. She had sent a pic (take note: *a face pic*) that seemed halfway decent. Being horny and naive, I went to her apartment to see what I could see.
Turns out she was a card-carrying wildebeest. She had three FUPAs and the picture she posted online was definitely pre-1000 Big Macs. Being a half-way nice guy I didn’t want to totally berate her for luring me under false pretenses. I came up with the excuse that I wanted to go grab some food and run to the bank really fast. She tried to trap me by saying “Oh yeah, will you get me a #1 as well” and handed me $10. I froze, not knowing what to do. I didn’t want to come back. Needless to say, I had lunch and dinner paid for that night and thankfully never ran into the wildebeest again.
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El Chief: Where in Canada are you? I’m in Vancouver. Have you ever been on Plenty of Fish? I would like to know how it compares to the pay sites for quality/total number of women on it.
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I’ve never been very impressed with the options online, though maybe age range and distance filters could be expanded a bit. Generally I’m not looking to drive an hour just to meet a potential heffalo though. Pics are often misleading and the few interesting gals have far more suitors than one might find in a bar. I think real life game is far more rewarding. That said, if it doesn’t cost anything and you are on at times you wouldn’t be out anyway, why not see what you can snag there. I suppose it’s a good way to practice if you need it. Mostly it seems that it’s hard to keep the tension building unless you can get her on chat anyway. Emails just have too much time in between usually. I far prefer real life where you know what you are getting and can leverage your abilities into action on the spot.
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Perfect for the lazy man who can’t be bothered to make himself presentable for the bar.
It’s also perfect for guys who are too afraid of bars and clubs for various reasons.
Of course, I too have a basic Match.com account since I couldn’t be bothered to pay for the service, but for all intents and purposes, it simply feeds me an e-mail list of pretty (and moderately attractive to me) chubby white girls who theoretically can and probably will do better than me. Admittedly, it’s rather interesting to note how I’ll select that I’m interested in white girls, but Match.com will send me white girls who don’t show any interest in black guys…
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additionally, if they’re hot and looking to date someone online, there’s a good chance they’re either really socially awkward or crazy.
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I just conducted an interesting test on Craigslist.
In the MFW search box, I typed in “black”: The result — about 25-30 posts each day, mostly from black men looking for women.
In the WFM search box, when I type in “black”, the result — about 10-15 posts each day, mostly from black women looking for men but occasionally, the search term also captured non-black women looking for black men.
For Asians:
MFW (Asian) — about 10-12 post a day, most non-Asian men looking for Asian women
WFM (Asian) — about 2-3 posts a day, mostly Asian women looking for men
Would have done Latinos/as but the search term gets complicated given the expansive definitions of Hispanic/Latino.
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I used match.com and eharmony.com for awhile, and didn’t have much luck meeting quality women. After I found Game, I came to the conclusion that Roissy did – online matching services are doomed to fail. But my reasoning, which has yet to be mentioned here, is the fact that most attraction is non-verbal, i.e. body language, facial expressions, voice intonation, etc, which can’t be exchanged nearly as easily online. Online dating is reduced to a more intellectual activity, where the women can immediately start disqualifying you for stupid little things in your profile that they wouldn’t have known about right away had they met you and been properly seduced. Still, I have friends who have married people they found online. But they’re all really good looking people who are going to do well no matter where they show themselves. Maybe it would be helpful if people here could give advice about how to build an especially intriguing profile.
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Roissy, inevitabley change happens. Back in old england, under a more controlled and subdued culture, adults, met and mingled with members of the opposite sex at ball room dances, watched over closely by parents. The males approached the female’s family, and asked for a dance. Fast forward to our adrenaline infused senseless now-culture,and you are surpposed to go the nearest night club, get as drunk as possible as fast as possible, with powerful alcoholic beverages, and jump into the face of the first female you meet, who is equally as incapasitated. Online dating brings sanity to the whole process. wether you want a quick meet and bang or a long lasting relationship based on compatability, you can have it all, and keep a healthy liver.
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Online chicks: there were a couple of “golden ages” on myspace and whatnot when, well, I didn’t have to do anything but exist. That ruled. It was new and unfamiliar and exciting, rather than banal and lame. If you were into the type of woman who gets tattoos or porks DJs; it ruled the most.
Now a days, in the big city, the personals are either desperate beeyatches at 28+, trying to land a cash cow or sperm donor, ooogly wilderbeests who’d never get approached in bars, or married women. Personally, I think the married ones are the only ones worth talking to. They ain’t “quality” by any means (always 30+, usually no better than a 6 or 7 -though the asian ones are a little better), but the convenience and passion of frustrated married women beats anything you’re going to troll in the “casuals” section, and they ain’t going to be as pissed when you dump them as the 29 year old who was picturing your offspring on the first date. Not to mention, you only have to take them on one date, and it’s always either a coffee house or bar, and the likelihood of them giving you the clap is extremely low for reasons which should be obvious (unlike, say, a dumb woman who is just a slut). Mostly though, it ain’t worth it.
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z,
I still think men should not totally rule out marriage, as long as they can :
1) Get a woman who makes equal or more than them.
2) Get a proper pre-nup (with lawyers on both sides). A pre-nup will NOT affect child support, however, so point 1) is still important.
3) Be moderately competent in Game.
Barring these, don’t get married. But if these 3 can be met, don’t rule it out. It is natural for all people, men and women, to want children of their own. Sure, the risks are high, and for some the trouble is too much, but there is an emptiness in being old and having no children of your own.
Now, if you can get a woman to have your children outside of marriage, think about that.
Even Roissy will regret being 55 and having no sons to teach Game to. This I guarantee.
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z,
“I hope more men become aware that there are a LOT of women out there who will fake love for a man during “courtship” with the full intent of divorcing him later, often after having a kid, for the monetary windfall it will produce for her in court. These women find out what they would get, AND THEN DECIDE to pursue the relationship with ass-raping you in court AS THE GOAL. ”
This is why you must BRING UP the subject of a pre-nup at the right time, in a manner that takes a ‘mutually beneficial’ theme. If she is shocked, it is good that the man found out. This screening feature is in addition to the however-imperfect legal shield that it provides.
So a man MUST ASK FOR IT.
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jkcadditionally, if they’re hot and looking to date someone online, there’s a good chance they’re either really socially awkward or crazy.
*holds up index finger in shame*
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Roissy, inevitabley change happens. Back in old england, under a more controlled and subdued culture, adults, met and mingled with members of the opposite sex at ball room dances, watched over closely by parents. The males approached the female’s family, and asked for a dance. Fast forward to our adrenaline infused senseless now-culture,and you are surpposed to go the nearest night club, get as drunk as possible as fast as possible, with powerful alcoholic beverages, and jump into the face of the first female you meet, who is equally as incapasitated. Online dating brings sanity to the whole process. wether you want a quick meet and bang or a long lasting relationship based on compatability, you can have it all, and keep a healthy liver.
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“If she’s hot, why would she bother with online dating?”
I’ll confirm what others have said: The all-female office enviornment, which can be anyplace from a school to a PR company, to a “health care” place to a gov’t office.
This really does take women by surprise. When there aren’t guys in school to meet one after another, they usually don’t meet guys every day and when they do, they’re usually creeps at Jiffy Lube. That last one comes directly from a woman I know.
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saying that online dating brings sanity to the mating process is like saying liquor brings sanity to the driving process.
the true sanitizer is game. all else is just female cockblocking.
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Someone else mentioned that attractive women 18-25 are rarely online. Even 7s and 8s. So very true.
Also, if you look considerably younger than your age and want to date women in their early 20s, why force yourself to prematurely divulge your actual age?
Having said all that, online is still a pretty decent place to meet arty 25-35 year old 7s and 8s.
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Any man who calls themselves an international man of mystery is neither.
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When i was a dumb freshmen in college who had barely ever conversed with the opposite sex I tried going online for a bit, at least in the communities frequented by people at my college. I wish I hadn’t had to learn firsthand about girls using a blurry headshot taken months or years ago at a much more flattering angle and time. I go get her (somehow managing to contain my dissapointment when I realize she’s a 3 at best) and we weren’t outside the driveway of her apartment complex before she starts telling me about how her last boyfriend carved her name into his arm (apparently a great conversation topic on a date).
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gig: spot on.
kthulah: no self-respecting male should have time to take or save photos of himself for the sole purpose of online dating. pretty much any “in the mirror” photo, gratuitously nude photo, or emo-scene-kid myspace photo is out.
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Roissy Maxim #55: If she’s hot, why would she bother with online dating?
If she’s hot why is she at a bar or club? To find a guy and to enjoy getting attention from guys. If she wanted to drink there are better places. If she wanted to listen to music there are better places. Just like you argue that girls in bars aren’t some weird subspecies completely divorced from the good, pure, moral womankind, girls online aren’t an inferiority subspecies. Some are ugly. Some are fit. I like online game. It’s easier than face to face game. It was much easier when I was just out of college and still developing my game. You can be deliberate. You can be thoughtful.
I’ve met some lovely girls online. They’re weird, but that’s no more damning than calling the girls I’ve met in bars banal. I can’t point to a difference in hotness. Maybe the online girls were older but they were well preserved. Probably former 9s and 10s current 8s or 9s. I really am only interested in a woman’s current beauty. All the non model/actress/waitresses made more than I did at the time.
If you are just starting out and think about game “no way that would work” trying it online is a low stakes way to find out for yourself. If you get good results pulling girls at bars that’s great but I know for a fact that it’s possible to get quality girls online and probably easier if your just starting out.
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I met my boyfriend online. I’m shy and I’m a transplant living in a small city where everyone bonds over sports and seems to marry someone they went to high school with.
I did have to sift through dozens of losers – two of them even made it past my rigorous screening process. Women aren’t the only one’s who embellish about looks, age and weight.
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what about tips for putting together a good (alpha) profile? how would the great Roissy construct his profile?
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“Anhedonic” aside, you get point in my book just for the sentence ” Just don’t go overboard and nerd out like you’re an epileptic thesaurus.”
That said, I’ve got to say that I’d be a little creeped by your responses & prob wouldn’t have agreed to setting anything up. In my meager online dating experience (because it just feels effing lame), guys who are forward online are evcen more creepily forward in person. And it’s not that I don’t like someone who knows what he wants, but there’s a certain line of creepiness that often gets crossed.
I went on one date set up online & it was a major bust. Among other issues, where I’d been massively honest both in photos & correspondence, he had not — 5’9″ does NOT mean 5’4,” buddy, & I wouldn’t have worn heels if I’d known I’d be meeting a midget. Haven’t considered doing it since.
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She works in a female dominated profession and doesn’t like meeting guys at bars. Online dating sites are full of elementary school teachers, nurses, and daycare workers.
Or she works in IT! Although I have to admit I have worked with a few exceptions to the rule back when IT was a hot career – not just for the geeks and the H1B Visa holders.
You would think that nurses interacting with MD’s all day would have better options.
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Are bars really the best place to meet single women? What if you don’t happen to drink?
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bars != drinking
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Word to the wise……
Always target women 5-7 min. years younger
@25 (18-20)
@30 (22-25)
@35 (28-30)
@40 (32-35)
Main reason is over time your access to 18-early 20s women will shrink exponentially……
Half your age plus 7 is the suggar daddy rule of thumb or inudstry standard.
Never ever go over you age unless in prison.
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I did the online thing in my 20’s. Two contributions to the conversation. Men lie as much as women and the selection among men is as low as among women. The only thing it was ever good for is funny emails to forward to my friends.
And I did end up with two stalkers, one spammed my email for months because after our “chat” I never contacted again. Why? Because his stalker personality was more than apparent even online.
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My profile used to say:
When I was a child my mother used to tell me that “this is a no touching store” I had a bad habit of touching any and everything the store. I would heft bottles of shampoo or trace the faces of clocks feeling the second hand tick futilely against my fingers. Walking to school I would let my fingers trail across brick walls or wooden fences learning distance by the burning feeling in my fingertips. Now I’m older, and still feel connected to the world by touch. A just pressed white shirt. The embrace of the warm ocean. Linen sheets crisp like they’ve been kept in the fridge.
I love to read and bought myself a kindle, to make reading easier I suppose. I find I seldom use it. I just miss the way books feel and smell. The convenience compromises the experience. It feels compromised and utilitarian. Like watching The Godfather on TBS. “Now you listen to me, you smooth-talking son of a GUN.”
Some things you should know: I take care of myself, you should too. If your profile includes the phrases”I like having fun, or I’m so random, or I like music” you are eliminated, if you have to remove any of these phrases you will be eliminated. I cannot be fooled. If you cite being sarcastic as an accomplishment be warned it is possible that I leave you tears. It would also be nice if you weren’t crazy. And you should be lovely. I almost forgot to mention lovely.
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i agree with you, aquarius. that’s one of the reasons i’m wary of roissy’s online game — anything so aggressive would send up red flags everywhere were we exchanging faceless emails.
boys, i’d say a better bet is to set up a nonthreatening meeting and game her from there.
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“And I did end up with two stalkers, one spammed my email for months because after our “chat” I never contacted again. Why? Because his stalker personality was more than apparent even online.”
And how is that stalking? Annoying maybe, but stalking, no. Trying to act like you’re even stalk-worthy.
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gunner – that’s a bit verbose for an online profile, eh?
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I should add that I proofread my personal ad (and not my previous post).
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sarah: maybe, though I doubt it. I can’t say I care. It did what was needed. If I could shorten it and make it better I would. I couldn’t.
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Chuck,
He has to hack my online profile to get my direct email account. That’s why it’s stalking.
As for being stalker-worthy, I wasn’t. He never saw a picture and I don’t divulge my measurements online because men never believe me. We had a 2 hour (abt) chat and he was very aggressive about personal details. He wanted to know my exact addresses: home, work and school (I was in grad school at the time). He accused me of lying to him about not having a boyfriend. He said that he expected me to quit my job to be with him b/c he supposedly had this great IT job making lots of money.
I remember this in such detail because I thought a man would have never been that pushy in person. And that this guy had to be a loser because he was so desperate.
And then he spammed me.
Happy, Chuck?
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gunner – glad it did what was needed, i suppose that’s all that matters. me, i’d be wary of anything that looked like its writer had put too much thought/effort into it.
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ASDF said, “El Chief: Where in Canada are you? I’m in Vancouver. Have you ever been on Plenty of Fish? I would like to know how it compares to the pay sites for quality/total number of women on it.”
I am in Vancouver (headquarters of PlentyOfFish!). PoF sucks. It is free, so the supply of men is not restricted, so there is too much competition. Lavalife is better, as the guys have to pay, so there are fewer guys, so an easier time. I have had some success on craigslist too. But have been offline dating for about a year, so not sure about conditions right now.
Silver Lone Wolf said “Half your age plus 7”. I believe that advice is taken from the Koran. Some funny reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships
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It could be instructive to examine the issue honestly. Obviously if I could covey an effortlessness that would be preferable. But it is difficult to be both. Look how roissy describes the curtains as crimson. That, to me as a writer it seems ameteurish and ham fisted, like the writing of a clever 16 year old girl, but I suspect it works better with random girls than if he had just used the word red. Getting a feeling of effortlessness is desirable but at the same time you want to convey quality. It’s a delicate balance.
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Guyz wanna know what Aquarius Chick w/ Tat’s real measurements are!
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The only online AD that really works is Craigslist…and I dont mean the Personals, NSA, etc.
I had a buddy in NYC who placed a legit “Models Wanted” ad on craigslist, back when it was free.
He basically said he would like to hire a Model to pose for an exotic car / motorsports shoot.
He got the industry jargon, practices, rates in his ad to look legit: ie,
-email head-shot matrix, <500mb,
-Standard day-rate paid,
-rights release required.
Also, he was very specific in age, height, race, waist/bust measurements, and specified “glamour”, “calendar”, “spokes-model” to weed out the waif, heroin-look, catalog-queen, b, fit-model types.
He got about 35-50 Head-shots a week; and on Saturdays he would have a 15 min. casting-call in his apartment from 12-3 while he read his mail or chilled.
It was truly amazing; he basically rejected all except 3-5 per week and then he would string them along until they were chasing him.
Eventually, he would have them pose around his sports-car to test their form; this was usually after a drive or meeting at a scenic spot.
Long story short, he banged 4-5 10s who just became friendly after spending so much time getting to know him and realizing he wasnt a bad guy….
Some warnings:
-Some girls come with dudes
-pay them $100, if you do take photos
-ask if they have boyfriends; some
dont approve of mini-skirts/bikinis in shoots…
-Ask for ID
-Modeling scams are common, so protect email, ph#, name, address to guard aginst unwanted attention.
Overall, its basically hiring a 10 to stand next to your bike or car for some photos.; and rejecting 49 other 10s who might get jeaolus, and want to get to know you.
Not illegal.
Better odds than a club and better resuts than cold game.
Best PUA game I heard of to date.
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A 5’7″ woman who weighs 108 lbs has a BMI of 16.9, making her substantially underweight (normal weight is 18.5-24.9, overweight is 25-29.9, and obese is anything over 30.) So the chick is either totally making up her stats or a walking skeleton.
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gunner – convey quality with knowledge of the english language (e.g. no cutesy abbreviations, etc), short, concise sentences, and feel free to advertise yourself, but any overly sensory descriptions tend to read like the opening of a bodice-ripper romance novel. i actually have only minor issues with your profile, but roissy’s “crimson” does give me pause. what may (_may_) save it is that it’s not on a public profile, but in an email. that said, i’m perhaps an exception in that i’m particularly wary of the online dating scene.
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While you idiots are off chasing sleazy/damaged women in dark and dank pick-up locales or in the oh-so-wholesome cyberworld (and worse, creating stupid online fads about it), the real alpha males are busy siring many healthy children in stable families.
That’s why solid traditionalist-oriented cultures and subcultures will survive for the long run while the debauched and decadent postmoderns (such as this blog respresents) are currently in the process of collapsing and fading away.
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Sarah and Aquarius, sorry, but I’m not into non threatening. Non threatening means possibly passive aggressive guy who will show his dark side one day. Everyone has one, and I’d rather hear the bad news first.
IMO, women read too much into what a guy does and says instead of just looking at what he does and says. Cool and aloof means cool and aloof, not relaxed and reserved. Non threatening means non threatening, not harmless.
A man isn’t physically harmless unless he’s severely disabled, and everyone male or female can be angry. So I much prefer gracious and merciful over non threatening…because when a guy has you alone in a room, and doesn’t take advantage of that, mercy is why, not harmlessness. Women don’t like to deal with that these days, but that’s the truth of it.
So I don’t get into guys who play harmless. That scares me.
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“So I don’t get into guys who play harmless. That scares me.”
Kthluah,
There’s a concept in finance and economics called the time-value of money. It says that a dollar today is better than a dollar tomorrow.
You’ve perversely applied that to Male-on-female abuse; “An ass-whooping today is better than an ass-whooping tomorrow.”
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kthulah – i can feel you on that. i suppose i’m going into the mix assuming that real assertive alpha males are not utilizing the online market, and the ones who thus come off as such are eerily aggressive. that, and i can’t stand the ambiguity of electronic inflection. hence, i’m not so much one for the online dating scene.
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Roissy wrote: “Just don’t go overboard and nerd out like you’re an epileptic thesaurus.”
It’s lines like this that keep me reading–and loving–this blog.
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Roissy Maxim #55: If she’s hot, why would she bother with online dating?
I agree with just about all the Roissy maxims I’ve read thus far, but not this one, I’m afraid. Over the past 3 years I’ve met a fair number of 9’s and 10’s from e-harmony, match, and Craigslist (the CL girls never had their pics posted in their ad, though – although they did send them in their e-mails). Mostly though, it’s been 7s. Still pretty good (a 6 is my threshold). On only one occasion have I met someone that didn’t look like her pictures. I do agree with jkc that the 9s and 10s did tend to be a bit socially awkward/crazy, though.
The way I see it, it’s just another “tool” for increasingly busy people to meet others that they probably wouldn’t have met otherwise (and us DC guys all know how busy DC girls are!). On eharmony and match, I just posted a profile and let them come to me (in a similar manner that Style has advocated for online game). On Craigslist, I would respond to a few ads of interest, which were few and far between. After that, get to meet in person as soon as possible – none of this constant e-mailing back and forth stuff. Because once you meet in person, you’re no longer “online dating”, are you? Then, apply the standard PUA tricks of the trade. Who gives a damn about HOW you met? What’s important is what happens AFTER.
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Sarah, you have to consider that like 10’s, Alpha males get hit on by alot of women, day in and day out. They’re getting approached and flirted with by tons of women, some they want, and many they don’t want, just like (natural and media) beautiful women.
Online he can seek exactly what *he* wants, like ordering a pizza. For some, they’re still not going to find many women who meet their optimal qualifications, but one can have plenty of fun while looking.
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kthulah – i wouldn’t quite liken it to ordering a pizza. perhaps it’s that i get bored too easily, but i can’t imagine a man with options would spend so much time sitting in front of his computer wading through the, at best, mediocre, online dating pool. facetime is what counts, after all.
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but re: dudley – if you can utilize it in an effective manner, i can see how it might prove a valuable tool. and i agree, after you meet, who cares how initial contact began.
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I’ve personally had quite a bit of success w/online dating, though I’ve never did the Match.com-type thing. I always met Ladies in the various forums I frequented online, we had shared interests and took it from there. Lookswise, I tended to luck out, most of em were very nice looking. Respect to Roissy for his analysis of the Online Dating Scene, though. As per usual, something to think about.
Question for Nicole: please define what you mean by “Natural” and “Media” beautiful?
Thanks.
The Obsidian
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Tood –
3) Racism : In this age of Obama, 90% of single women support him, BUT it is great to qualify a woman on whether she is ‘progressive’ enough to date a man of a different race.
Well it’s not “racism” to not want to date outside your race.
And the percentage of single women voting for Obama was more like 70% not 90%. Also remember a huge percentage of black females are single and nearly 100% voted for Obama.
This cognitive dissonance fry’s their circuits. They consider themselves hugely enlightened and progressive, yet become visibly uncomfortable under a ‘Who is more racist, women or men?’ sort of banter question.
What man would want to do this? Black males looking to punk out guilty White women? I think if you are making any woman “visibly uncomfortable” you are probably not going about it the right way. That’s the kind of behavior that leads a woman to say to her girlfriends – “Can you believe that loser creep tried to use Obama to get a date with me”. Not good.
Some women, in their profile, will, however, openly list the races they seek, and include Asians, Blacks, etc. in that list. These tend to be corporate employees, doctors, or schoolteachers.
Don’t put Asian males in the same category as black males. I’ve checked a lot of profiles and the White women seem to be much more likely to check the black male while ignoring the Asian male. At least in their profiles regardless of real world situations.
The point is, however, that a chick is a huge Obama cultist, while still not willing date a man of color. This can be turned into a neg, a qualifying statement, or a topic for banter.
There’s no such thing as a “man of color”. In the real world NOBODY mindlessly lumps black, Asian, East Indian, Latino etc in the same category for dating or anything else.
“You don’t really support Obama if you would not date a young Obama if you had met him. I thought you were progressive…”
But again what’s your point Tood? Are you a black male desperately trying to use racial guilt to get a White woman to go out with you?
If so that’s some pretty lame game to me. If you’re a White man trying to pick up a White woman then are you just trying to play a game of “I’m more liberal than you”?
It seems like a very weak strategy. But I’m not black so I wouldn’t use it.
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*Cosign Willard Libby’s analysis 100%*
O
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Is an example of Roissy’s “successful online game” hitting on fat and lonely ugly DC Jewish chicks via her blog? – http://www.suburbansweetheart.com/2009/01/lack-of-sex-city.html?showComment=1233635220000#c6564448804359203346
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Sarah, I don’t know how much time it would actually take if a guy is fairly outgoing. He’s interacting with people and meeting women incidentally, or he’s browsing profiles with photos and looking at the ones who catch his eye.
Men are pretty good at this sort of thing, even live. Online it’s even more efficient.
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Whoever posted above my last one, you’re stupid. He wasn’t flirting, and she’s not fat or ugly.
…but thank you for providing an example of natural beauty for my reply to Obsidian.
Obsidian, click that link. The girl there is naturally beautiful. She’s symmetrical, in proportion, and everything looks like it ought to work. My friend Dana is another good example.
An example of media beautiful is Paris Hilton. She’s a freakin’ cyborg.
Natural beauty just is. Nobody can do better than nature, and when it’s good it’s very very good. Most humans have some natural beauty so long as they don’t screw it up. I saw a guy today with a Goblin situation going on one side of his face, but the other side was gorgeous. So even some “mistakes” end up looking more fascinating than hideous if a person takes good care of themselves.
(As an aside, I smiled at him, and he smiled at me, but he was busy working, and probably has to marry a nice Jewish girl anyway.)
Media beautiful is basically conformity to a template. Sometimes in the process of conforming or attempting to, someone will ruin their natural beauty, but because people are programmed in a particular cultures, to value certain features or modifications, people will respond to them as if they were beautiful.
Sometimes either kind of beauty can be problematic if it isn’t socially convenient.
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In all online encounters I make it pretty clear that all I am looking for is sex. Surprisingly, or perhaps not so surprisingly, I have met many good looking woman who were interested in nothing more than casual sex. Being online often frees a girl to be the whore she would like to be every now and then. Still, it does take a lot of time. When the internet first became popular it was not as difficult as it is now to find a good looking woman: there were fewer women on there, and many were quite good looking. I think it was the novelty of it all. Now everyone is doing it.
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Nicole,
I checked out the link you noted; I don’t find any problem w/the way the young lady looks at all. Would date her in a heartbeat. Thanks for the definition. I think I get your point.
The Obsidian
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What’s up with all of the Jewish hate here???
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@Wait…
…haven’t you heard of models?
😀
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kthulah = just another typical dumbass fooled by makeup, camera angles & lighting, and face shots (why is she afraid to show below the shoulders?)
if you look closer though, she’s your typically pudgy (sz 14 – she says in her blog) Jewish horseface: http://flickr.com/photos/29846242@N06/3214679296/in/set-72157612764793615/
lesson? don’t trust highly ‘prepared’ photos if you are looking for reality.
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and what the hell are you doin over in israel kthulah? helping the ‘poor and oppressed’ israelis commit genocide against palestinian children who are fighting back with bottle rockets?
you know, i heard them there ashkenazim dont like ‘schwartzers’ over there too much: to quote some of them toward their fellow jews – “Who are you to expel us from our home? An Ethiopian does not expel a Jew! A nigger does not expel a Jew!…Who told you to come and evacuate us? You Ethiopians. What are you, this State’s niggers? Olmert’s niggers?” – http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3633163,00.html
nice people them jews.
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If I received Roissy’s texts, I would have shown them to all my girlfriends so they could laugh with me at him.
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“look closer” you just showed a photo of the same girl without makeup. She doesn’t look worse really, just cold and with no makeup. You going to show us one from when she has the flu?
She’s just not an ugly girl. You can’t turn her into an ugly girl by calling her ugly any more than Roissy can magically regraft 80 lbs. back onto me by calling me a fat whatever. So really, you’re no better than him.
Now, if your point is not so much that she’s ugly, but that he’s an asshole (like you) then guess what? We already knew that.
As far as what I’m doing in Israel well…Let’s just say that I’ve actually experienced racial discrimination here and yet don’t feel the need to label all Jews as one big frothing lynchmob. Maybe if you had real problems too, you wouldn’t feel so compelled to create them.
Well, you do obviously have a problem, but what I mean is actual challenges to deal with aside of your own self pity.
Go ahead…find some common ground with Roissy and hate on me. It’ll be fun. 🙂
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now a chill lounge draped in crimson curtains and the soothing sounds of jazz over martinis…
Where is there a place like this in DC? I want to know.
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Closer, the rockets are not bottle rockets, and provoked the War in the first place. Israel left Gaza, and got rocketed constantly in return.
When Pancho Villa pulled that stuff, we staged an expeditionary invasion.
I don’t think online stuff pays off for most guys, too much work for too little payoff.
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@roissy:
“An Example Of Successful Online Game”
I thought you were gonna talk about World of Warcraft for a second!
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“I’ve checked a lot of profiles and the White women seem to be much more likely to check the black male while ignoring the Asian male. ”
These are not the college educated white women. Perhaps if you filtered for education……
Don’t look for it, Willard. You may not like what you find.*
*So said Dr. Zaius
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Off topic question: how do I find a group of local guys to discuss and practice game with?
My male friends are either married, or beta with no intention of improving. I need friends that are interested in going out and picking up women, guys I can learn from. I like my friends, but they’re useless when it comes to women, bars, or the pickup scene. They’re pathetic actually. The whole lot will likely die virgins, but I’m sure they’ll die with the highest combined World of Warcraft score (I won’t touch that video game, my dick shrivels just hearing them talk about it). I need to emulate successful pickup artists, not the nerds in my line of work.
I’m in Orange County, CA, but I didn’t grow up or go to college here. Any ideas?
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DT
Go out on your own. Seriously, nothing is better for getting your game tight. Find a neighborhood hangout that has a good bevy of talent and make yourself a fixture there. Things will go your way before you know it. The best thing about this is that there is no-one to drop off. You live in CA. You’re gonna be driving presumably.
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“I’m in Orange County, CA, but I didn’t grow up or go to college here. Any ideas?”
Dude, you are amongst some of the hottest women in the world. I often wish I lived there.
You can go to newsgroups or blogs to find out where the local ‘lair’ is for the LA area. There are definitely a good number of Game practitioners there. Do some Googling about ‘Los Angeles Seduction’ or ‘Los Angeles Lair Meeting’.
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Don’t you moderate your comments? You’ve got an racist troll here spewing hatred. Sick, sick, sick.
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If you were in DC we could hang out DT. Anyone in DC here besides ROISSY? Who, by the way, seems to spend a lot of time writing about girls. Beta activity?
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Looks like that scumbag has found my blog and is trying to write his awful filth there too. Nice try, asshole. I moderate my comments.
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“I threw in one five dollar word — anhedonic — to establish intellectual dominance.”
Anhedonic disorder includes the *inability* to derive pleasure form sex.
You’re slippin’ Roissy.
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Roissy digs fat ugly Jewish chicks
Fat? Ugly? Huh?
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look closer – kthulah = just another typical dumbass fooled by makeup, camera angles & lighting, and face shots (why is she afraid to show below the shoulders?)
if you look closer though, she’s your typically pudgy (sz 14 – she says in her blog) Jewish horseface:
Is this her on the right with her chubby blond friend?
I don’t care what a woman looks like if she’s an Obamadroid weirdo. That’s a deal breaker for me.
Obamadroids are the Star Wars nerds and Trekkies of politics.
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I gotta get outta NYC, bitches here is way too much work for the hotness level. 4’s and 5’s here expect Tom Brady to sweep them off their feet for goodness sake.
The only place I imagine that’s worse is DC.
Shit tests are really important…even with female acquaintances, these are constant. Women seem to constantly be discerning who’s more alpha and who’s more beta.
I’m 31 now. What’s the legitimate minimum age I should be going for? Seems to me most women don’t want to date guys more than 5 years older in general (there are exceptions). I’m surrounded by a lot of 23-25 year olds. Don’t want to look “creepy” though of course. Another issue is I look 24 (really) and these girls think I’m right about their age until I tell them differently.
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It’s amazing. You could replace every “alpha” with “douche” on this blog and it would still read exactly the same.
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I’m 31 now. What’s the legitimate minimum age I should be going for?
Any age that’s legal. But generally your best bet is between 22 and 26.
As a flexible rule, for LTRs — and by this I mean marriage, which sounds liek what you are looking for — you want the girl to be older than 22, because before that they usually don’t know what they want. Younger than 22 is safe if she is the mature “oldest child” type, religious (especially if you are both of the same religious background) or a quiet introverted “nerd girl” type.
I’d say that over 26 you are running into more girls who’ve grown cynical and their ability to pairbond with you diminishes. Plus, you want to have her best years for yourself — you also don’t want her to have had her heart broken by some superalpha about whom she’ll be thinking while making love to you.
Also, if you eventually want kids, you really want to start trying well before she is 30.
That’s not to say you can’t meet a great girl who is older than that — but that’s rare, but more likely if she is religious, conservative, etc.
Seems to me most women don’t want to date guys more than 5 years older in general (there are exceptions).
That’s not really true but seems that way because people are age-segregated for the most part. In fact, you are the perfect age for attractign girls in their early 20s. I think a lot of 23-25 year old girls do want an LTR with a guy your age because they consider their age-mates immature.
I’m surrounded by a lot of 23-25 year olds.
That’s great. You are a step ahead of most single guys your age.
Don’t want to look “creepy” though of course. Another issue is I look 24 (really) and these girls think I’m right about their age until I tell them differently.
Don’t worry about age. Don’t internalize the word “creepy.” As long as you talk to those girls with some amount of game and not just ogle them from a distance, they wont’ consider you “creepy.”
If you come off like you have that boyish energy, have fun/confident game, look good, and dress well (always wear expensive shoes) age matters very little with women. I’m in my late 30s and there are at least four girls I work with who are in their early 20s — one is a 20-y.o. intern — whose eyes light up when they talk to me and they certainly would go out with me if I were single.
I’ve also seen my sister’s 70-something-year old father-in-law, a charming alpha ‘Eyetalian’ if there ever was one, keep a cirlce of visibly horny 20-30-something y.o. women enraptured with him as he was telling them some funny story.
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roissy,
Please moderate your comments to delete bedwetting European faggots like ian in hamburg.
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I’m in law school, so I’m not looking for marriage now, and certainly not with law school girls. Law school is kind of like high school in a way, so social status is big. I’m generally well-liked by the mostly younger students, just wondering if there’s an age where I shouldn’t be thought of as going for it. In this kind of environment, any bad rep can follow you.
As far as girls outside school, your age ranges are probably the best. 24 is a great age for girls.
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If I were to place a personals ad looking for women I’d have one primary requirements. And you know what that would be.
Peter
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Willard Libby, “look closer”
Please show some respect. “kthulah” was in the Navy. Of course, if you believe that, well…And why she links to a website that isn’t hers and uses that ugly photo, go figure.
Just another chunky loser living online…
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Fatty, in my photo gallery, I have a scan of the photo of me being sworn in, in February of 1990.
…and you won’t make me any uglier by saying so either.
I really don’t see what my looks have to do with this, unless you’re saying that I shouldn’t stand up for Roissy because he hates on fatties…but his character is no more relevant to the truth than my weight past or present.
The girl is not fat, nor is she ugly. He wasn’t even flirting with her, just commenting on her blog.
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Kudos to PA for being a White guy who understands the value of wearing (and keeping up) good shoes. A rare breed, indeed.
The Obsidian
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Kudos to PA for being a White guy who understands the value of wearing (and keeping up) good shoes. A rare breed, indeed.
Eight pairs of leather shoes my friend. None more than three years old; five black, three brown in different shades. Regularly polished with Kiwi. Got flat-nose, pointed, with and without a buckle.
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Did somebody say shoes?
I was bent over lacing up my pseudo-hiking shoes that I wear with my jeans and all of a sudden it hit me: why am I–flat-bellied 200+pound guy who works out and can still wear jeans–wearing these faggoty, lace-up pseudo-hiking shoe thingies?
That very effing minute, I’m out the door and headed out of town to a western wear store I know about. I put on a pair of Justins before I left the lot. Hung out at a sports bar that evening. Got approached. Traded phone numbers and got a date lined up.
The revolution starts here, gentlemen: dump the eurofaggot shoes and get yourselves some boots.
Some advice, unless you’re a real cowboy, and I’m not, get the roper heel, not the riding heel.
http://www.justinfootwear.com/order/justin/toeandheel.htm
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@wounded animal,
not that it takes any at all, but at least I have the guts to leave a link back to my blog. What do you have but bullshit to offer?
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What about spurs with those boots?
Although I did know this girl who wanted me to whip her with a belt, I have to think spurs might be over the top.
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ian,
Some of my best friends are bulls and I am deeply offended by your deprecatory implications regarding their bowel movements. I cannot believe roissy allows your unchecked bullism on this site. I’m calling President Obama’s office this very instant.
I see you’re Canadian. Do you still piss standing up?
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really? only a few readers on here live in DC? interesting.
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But generally your best bet is between 22 and 26.
Maybe this sounds silly and absurd, but between my brother and I, there’s a five year gap, and he doesn’t get some of the references that he makes, so wouldn’t such an age divide create weird generational issues that one wouldn’t want in a long-term relationship?
you also don’t want her to have had her heart broken by some superalpha about whom she’ll be thinking while making love to you
Don’t they have superalphas in high school and college who may have already gotten to her?
Also, if you eventually want kids, you really want to start trying well before she is 30.
So instead of enjoying her youth, she’s wasting it on kids while crippling her income potential which turns her into a shrew who secretly loathes me for crushing her spirit and not being able to buy nice stuff because her income is depressed.
I think a lot of 23-25 year old girls do want an LTR with a guy your age because they consider their age-mates immature.
Several of my strong, independent, smart female friends have or are currently dating men (of alpha and beta status) who are older than them by roughly two to five years. In contrast, the thought of me dating downward in age induces nightmares.
Eight pairs of leather shoes my friend.
Damn, I wish I had that kind of money.
And, I hate pointed male shoes.
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David, no offense but if you don’t get some references that your brother makes, it’s not because you’re older, it’s because you’re, well “quirky” to put it nicely. 5 years is certainly not a “generational difference” like 15 or 20 years would be. I, personally don’t want to date LTR more than 6 or 7 years younger. 3-5 years younger is probably optimal. I can’t imagine there being “weird” generational issues with a 5 year difference, which you admit is not unusual at all.
I was talking to this girl in a bar who’s in one of my classes. tall, stacked, hot chick. I think she’s really young, maybe only 21. She was shocked that I wasn’t like 24 when I told her my age (she asked when I graduated undergrad, so I had to tell her). She didn’t necessarily seem put off but she might have been a little bit, because she didn’t seem as into me as she did before.
Average girl I know here is 24. Many of the people who go out are at most a couple years out of undergrad (a few like me are older). I’m not sure what else to compare law school with to give people an indication of what it’s like, but it’s a pretty intense environment. So being around people almost all of whom are younger is interesting mostly because I fit in so well with them. I was a late bloomer which probably accounts for that. Law school is a gossipy environment and I have a feeling that if I pursue some of the younger females, there might be whispers. Right now I’m just sociable and chill and seeing what happens, but it seems like threading the needle because I will not get laid here if the “crowd” doesn’t approve; as I said, it’s like high school. I know girls are attracted to me and I just want to make the most of it…this is probably a special kind of “game”.
Of course, non-law chicks are better, but tougher to meet during a tough semester. Right now my cutoff is about 24 for thinking about actively pursuing here. 22-23 may be pushing it.
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[…] Z tells you exactly what kind of women you are likely to meet online in this post: THIS IS WHAT YOU GET ONLINE FOR THE MOST PART […]
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[…] neg hits, more qualifying, more […]
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[…] (for me, anyway; not so much for the husband of the chick who agreed to meet me), but despite my unusual success in the online world, I don’t recommend it as anything more than a supplement to meeting girls […]
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I’d like to add to what el chief touched upon (February 3, 2009 at 2:21 pm)
It’s so easy to be busted online. Basically just before you go out with a girl it’s the easiest thing in the world for them to ask an attractive friend to send you a message of interest (or they can just setup a bs account sounding hot) and if you take the bait – whoosh – it’s all gone.
I’m pretty sure this has happened to me a couple of times at least: contact mysteriously stops dead after receiving an expression of interest from another fairly hot profile.
There’s no real way around this other than to ignore incoming messages for a while (of course you can keep sending out messages with very low risk of getting busted).
It’s a frustrating and powerful weapon they have up their sleeve.
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I found the line 5 dollar word to be amusing, but to follow up with a literary texture reprimanding phrase like, “crimson curtains,” c’mon isn’t that just kind of cheesy.
Honestly, it wouldn’t be the line I would use in this situation because it’s just not me. I would say something along the lines as, “Really? Dinner and a movie? Do you live in a 90’s sitcom? I rather prefer something classy like a jazz club and later a walk around central park.”
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