I’m coming to the conclusion that the best opener is a neg straight out of the gate. In order to set the right tone as soon as you begin talking to a girl, you want to establish alpha cred immediately before any of her beta-sniffing circuits have had a chance to subconsciously dress you down. The quickest way to sear alpha grill lines in a woman’s heart is through the neg. 8s and above require a neg no matter what, 6s and 7s may require them depending on your relative attractiveness to your target, and 5s and below should not need them unless you are so hideous it’s all you can do to prevent her from dismissing you outright.
Here are four neg openers I regularly use, in descending order of proto-assholery.
1. “Bad hair” opener
This is an original.
ME: [looking disapprovingly at her head] Doing your hair like that is only going to attract the wrong kind of guy.
GIRL: [if she’s cool and witty] Are you saying you’re the wrong kind of guy?
ME: Since I noticed that hairstyle, I must be.
***
ME: Doing your hair like that is only going to attract the wrong kind of guy.
GIRL: [if she’s not cool or witty] What’s that supposed to mean?
ME: You hair covers half your face, like you’re trying to hide something. The wrong kind of guys love that. [turn my back]
2. “You suck” opener
Unless the environment is chock full of interesting goings-on that I can use as situational openers, I borrow openers from PUA material I read on the net or have heard from friends. The “You suck” opener is one of those.
ME: [walking up to girls after hanging back for a while] Do you know why you guys suck?
GIRLS: [usually looking shocked] Excuse me!?
ME: [smiling] Because you’ve been checking me out for ten minutes and you didn’t come over to say Hi. Bad manners. And a little creepy.
3. “If you wanted to meet me” opener
Another PUA classic.
ME: [after girl bumps into me] Whoa, if you wanted to meet me, you could just say Hi.
4. “Hi” opener
ME: Hi
GIRL: Hi
OK, this isn’t a neg. But I use it all the time as a fallback. Looking back over the years on my many cold approaches, the more asshole-y my opener, the likelier I was to get the girl into bed. There’s just no getting around it — bold, even offensive, openers work best for cold approaches in competitive mating environments. (Day Game needs a subtler touch.) While “Hi” is a safe, all-purpose opener, it’s not high impact like the others; you’ve got to climb uphill from “Hi” to prove to the girl you aren’t like every other boring guy. With an edgy asshole opener, you’ve proven it from the first words out of your mouth. After an asshole cluster bomb rattles her beaver bunker, she’ll be much more receptive to your game.
I found this Brad P opener on the net:
The Weird Horse Girl opener
YOU: “Hey do you like horses?”
GIRL: ”HUH? ummm yea i guess.”
YOU: “Hmm, I thought so. OK check this out, when I was in the 6th grade, there was this girl who loved horses. She used to run around the playground for an hour straight at lunchtime. She’d be galloping and making horse noises. We used to call her the weird horse girl.”
GIRL: “Yeah, so?”
YOU: “well…you look JUST LIKE HER!”Then if she responds well you continue by saying you’re sorry about what you did back then, because you used to make fun of her but now you are older and more mature and feel bad about it, etc. etc.
I like it. What a mindfuck of a neg! Although this isn’t exactly my style (a bit too wordy for an opener), I’m going to give it a trial run. Many girls really do appreciate creativity, as long as it doesn’t sound like you’re trying too hard to impress her. Keep the obscure literary references to yourself, professor.
If I can get a girl into bed starting with just “Hi” then I know she’s a potential quality girl. I mentally bump her up into my Tier 1 girls. It says good things about a girl if she has enough control over her feral instincts that being a dick isn’t needed to capture her interest.
When I need to get in the right frame of mind for opening girls, I recall this scene from Bad Santa:
Billy Bob Thornton is sitting at a bar wearing his Santa outfit and drowning his misery.
Hot Chick Bartender: So Santa, do you have a real name?
Billy Bob: Yes.
He never tells her his name. All the right attitude conveyed in one word and one unspoken word.
m!ndfnck as a neg…ok…
I like the horse story, I bet you could use other barn yard animals…
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I thought the horse girl opener would have something to do with Catherine the Great.
Peter
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I love the Hair opener. Too bad I’m balding, this would probably backfire on me. Oh well…
I like the horse opener as well. Too wordy, needs to be condensed…
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Oh, and instead of saying “You suck”, I think something like “wow, you’re just plain terrible…” is better. I have heard SO many dudes revert to “you suck” when dealt a rejection and left with nothing better to say. I fear this would make one look beta if used verbatim.
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Stop stealing stuff from Mystery. That stuff is, what, sooo 5 years ago???
p.s.
Obama getting the cheek and beta pat on the back from Michelle (starting at 0:30):
Nancy never taking her eyes away and adoringly looking at Reagan (starting at 0:30):
Now, I ask of those NY Times ball-busting cunts: Whose wife worships their husband?
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What kind of pen does an Alpha use?
Montblanc = Alpha
Bic = Beta?
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I like the 1980s psychic abortion doctor opener.
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alleged “PUA”‘s always underestimate the value/use of “Hi.” I’ve nailed a lot of girls that I opened with “hello”.
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Here’s my question for those that run Game regularly in bar settings: after negging a couple/few times, what’s the general tone you set for the conversation afterwards? Everyone talks about openers and shit, but that’s about 3% of the interaction.
I’m pretty much a serial monogomist, and by in-between time is spent hollering at chicks at house parties or work, so I’m just curious how those in the bar/club scene run their post-neg Game.
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This is what women want. They WANT to feel unworthy of a guy and then win him over. Attraction is bascially showing a girl you are out of her league. That’s all. The neg does this. I remember a guy in my secondary school who just straight up told a girl to ‘look in her own league’ when approached – he was with her a week later. Women have a psychological need to feel inadequate before their man. This must be demonstrated in one way or another, otherwise attraction just won’t burst forth.
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This is what women want. They WANT to feel unworthy of a guy and then win him over. Attraction is bascially showing a girl you are out of her league. That’s all.
I agree. Which is why I’m puzzled why complimenting and supplicating to a girl one likes seems to be the default move of many males. Seemingly across time and cultures as well.
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Chuck, it depends on how the girl is reacting. Some girls (who are awesome) will tease you back and playfully call you out. Some (who are easy) will stress. I’d say with the former, tease/flirt/banter and enjoy yourself, but do it with the attitude of “You are cool, I am cool, let’s continue finding out if we’re interested in sleeping together.”
With the latter, ease up on the outright teasing, but subcommunicate that she is barely worth your time. Harsh, but her self-esteem was broken before you entered the picture. If you are a serial monogamist, I suppose you’d want to avoid these types altogether.
In general with negs and cocky/funny stuff, it’s important to calibrate it to how attractive you are. If you are tall and good looking, girls will be intimidated by overly cocky/negging behaviour.
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Here’re some feminazis trying to convince us all to l.ove their fat bloated asses. Chic Noir, you tubby fuck, pay attention:
http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/?last_story=/mwt/broadsheet/2009/02/10/top_10/
linking to these 10 porkers-lesbians
http://nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/archive/2009/02/09/top-10-hottest-women-size-10-and-up.aspx
It’s amazing what feminists will try to do to get us to think they are hot. The only 1’s worth doing are #1 and Nigella. And, as the article subtley admits: Nigella isn’t a size 10.
So that leaves #1. She’s hot because 1) no fat face; 2) hot face; 3) red hair (rarity); and 4) huge, huge boobs. Plus they have no proof she’s a size 10, either. #1 is an outlier these fat hags try to use to prove that they can force alphas to love them for who they are.
Note how many of these porkers are lesbians who have successful careers (elliot, Latifah, Ramirez, the rocker sluts).
Women, wake up: your career, outside of sex worker, means nothing to us. Being hot and being able to cook does.
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This seems like an appropriate place to share an experience I had yesterday that will be recorded in history as the single worst PU ever:
Introduced myself to a cute girl on the train, using the super-advanced “Hi” opener. We chat for a bit about school, our programs etc. She is a quantum physics grad student. Cha-ching.
I recently read “The trouble with physics” so to demonstrate my polymath-ness I start busting on her for believing crazy shit like string theory. All is going well, until I say, “And don’t you quantum physicists do crazy things like put kittens in boxes with poison gas?”
She’d never heard of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrodingers_cat
Whoops, looks like this is my stop.
Cheers
Zdeno
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I’d love to see someone create a series of ten face-shots that represent women on each of the points of the 1-10 scale. Pics of celebrities, random women from the internet, etc.
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But enough of this frivolity. Do you guys think that there are genetically-determined differences in average IQs across race? Or what? Also, what’s up with feminists?
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I’ve used variations of #3 all of three times, and each time I end up getting flustered. Basically, I only use it when I see a good looking chick checking me out at a bar. A la Cajun, i just stare right back at her with the most devilish grin I can muster, slowly walk over and do the “you can’t look at me like that and not say anything/if you want to meet me you can just say hi.” The look/vibe girls will give back in response to this is incredible, but my problem has been that they are literally speechless. And without any banter to play off of, I stumble and revert to asking boring interview questions (so, who you here with?…) Basically, #3 seems powerful, but needs to be supplemented by some other conversational piece that keeps the sexed out vibe going.
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I should add that I’m very new to practicing Game techniques. So it’s no wonder if I come off like a novice in the above post.
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What if you told her about how you ALMOST stopped a crime one time by dialing 911?
That’s sure to impress her with your alpha distress call and woman-like logic that allows you to see yourself as a latent crime fighter saving the day with your super-cell-phone powers.
You’d better have game, son. Apparently, the real you isn’t going to impress anyone.
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Also, what’s up with feminists?
The only TV show I now watch is “Two and a Half Men” with Charlie Sheen (“Charlie”) as a rich alpha playboy who takes in his loserish divorce-raped boyscout-beta brother “Alan” as a houseguest.
It’s a good show for the most part; some episodes are amazing in how realistic they are in depicting the modern-day alpha and beta males.
One episode in particular was great, when Alan gets brownbeaten by his ex-wife and her support group of man-hating feminists because their son Jake started repeating some sexist things he picked up from Charlie. Alan (a good feminist male) tries to mollify the harridians, but they eat him alive.
Then, enter Charlie. He masterfully deflets the feminists’ hatred, plays divide and conquer the yentas by speaking to their insecurities (negging) and ends up charming them to the point that they are eating out of his hand.
However, some episodes feel like they are guest-written by radical feminists. They turn the whole premise of the show upside-down with things such as:
1) having Charlie grovel before “successful, mature” women while Alan impresses them with his savoir-faire.
2) Portraying women under 40 as stupid, and unfit mates for a successful 40+ man.
3) Or, like with yesterday’s episode — worst one ever — an episode in which Charlie spends 20 minutes of airtime getting dressed down by his ball-busting female shrink and his shrewish cougar girlfriend, who he wants to get back to so hard, he goes into couples therapy. Awful!
By the way, as I was waiting for the show to air at 9PM last night, I started getting annoyed when, at 8:58, Obama’s doofy mug was still on air, blathering something about the economy.
I muted the TV (his voice grates on me like no other) and watched his face with curiosity. He doesn’t look quite human to me. No, this isn’t a race thing. It’s that he looks like something that may have stepped out of a UFO.
Also, his eyes were betraying an inner agitation of a petty tyrant, sort of like one you’d see in a beta who was overpromoted and ties to project an authority that he naturally lacks in his bearing.
But the wierdest part was his lips. Why are they purple?
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What if she says ‘no’ in response to your horse question? Then you look like a fool because you’re all tensed up and ready to deliver your clever little story and, all of a sudden, have nothing to say.
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My favourite bar opener:
“Hi, my name is Thursday. I thought you were cute and wanted to meet you. But, before you talk to me, you should know that I have, like, no friends and an extreeeeeeeeeemly small penis.”
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PA:
From what I’ve noticed, the only numbers on this scale that have a more or less agreed-upon meaning are 6 (meaning: somewhat attractive, but not so much that one would proudly walk around holding her hand) and 7 (meaning: attractive just enough to qualify for serious girlfriend material). The meanings of other numbers are even more vague. 8-10 are assigned more or less randomly to impressively beautiful women, and 1-3 to strikingly ugly ones. 4-5 usually mean “unattractive, but not strikingly ugly”, but not necessarily.
Also, face shots are usually a bad way of judging attractiveness. Professionally taken photographs (with optimal makeup, lighting, and possibly Photoshop) tend to make people, especially women, look unrealistically good, whereas on the other hand, random photo shots often catch them with weird frozen facial expressions. Even very pretty girls sometimes come out weird-looking or even horsefaced in casually taken photos.
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“Hi, my name is Thursday. I thought you were cute and wanted to meet you. But, before you talk to me, you should know that I have, like, no friends and an extreeeeeeeeeemly small penis.”
“Hi, my name is George Costanza, I am unemployed and I live with my parents.”
“Hi, I’m Victoria!” she says with eyes brightly lit.
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…”Obama’s doofy mug was still on air, blathering something about the economy.”
Markets are tanking right now. And there will be $50 Billion more to “prevent” foreclosures.
Guns? Check. Gold? Check? Groceries? Check.
And Ted Kennedy is still alive, but judging by his photo, not for long. Death, hurry up! You’ve taken so many who didn’t deserve to go when they did, why not him?
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That makes sense. From what I see in Eastern Europe, there are lots of 7’s as you describe them, which makes some American betas think that EE is some hot girl doll store.
The poor saps are so starved for normal attractive (but not spectacular) women, they create El Dorado myths out of that part of the world.
It seems like 7’s are the natural default of young females, except that in the States most of them had succumbed to the obesity epidemic, and the ones who haven’t act like they are 9’s.
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A 1-5 scale would make a lot more sense.
1: Escaped from a laboratory
2: Below average
3: Average
4: Above average
5: Perfect
Or something to that effect.
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I did the “Horse girl” opener for a while. It has an amazing effect. Be sober when you try it. If she is not a solid 9 or higher, you will backfire and you can cause serious psychological damage to that chick.
Other shock openers I like are:
– just the middle finger (while smiling)
– I hate you (and smile)
– Wait … did we have sex? (and look confused)
– let’s go fuck (take her hand and spin her around)
If you can pull these off consistently, you are in the champions league of game.
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1. “Bad hair” opener
This is a Willard Libby original.
ME: [looking disapprovingly at her head] Doing your hair like that is only going to attract the wrong kind of guy.
GIRL: Fcuk off.
***
ME: Doing your hair like that is only going to attract the wrong kind of guy.
GIRL: You worry about your hair and I’ll worry about mine.
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The poor saps are so starved for normal attractive (but not spectacular) women, they create El Dorado myths out of that part of the world.
Yup. Eastern Europe provides for Americans and other Western men what America once did:
Urban, walkable environments with lots of non-fat, non-obese, relatively feminine white girls.
What once was normal is now El Dorado.
LONG LIVE ESTONIA!
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3) Or, like with yesterday’s episode — worst one ever — an episode in which Charlie spends 20 minutes of airtime getting dressed down by his ball-busting female shrink and his shrewish cougar girlfriend, who he wants to get back to so hard, he goes into couples therapy. Awful!
It is interesting you brought up that show and that particular episode. I once saw an interview with the creator of the show and one thing that he said was that, “no good deed goes unpunished”. Which is why, usually, the Alan character is usually being destroyed by everyone and everything and Charlie will fall ass-backwards into hot ass and financial opportunities.
However, sometimes Charlie will attempt to do the right thing (like go to couples Counseling, take up Vegetarianism for a girl, or take care of his mother) and he will then be punished.
You can love it or hate it, but I believe that the show is trying to be consistent. (Think of how happy Alan was when he was simply concerned about hot sex with that blazing airhead).
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Usually Lurking, you have a point about “no good deed goes unpunished.” Or more precisely, no beta deed goes unpunished. In that sense, the show is consistent and true to life.
The part that bugs me is that Charlie’s attempts at being good/beta are so out of character that they feel like those episodes were written by someone other than the usual writer.
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“What kind of pen does an Alpha use? “
Alpha = made you insecure enough to pay $200 for a fucking pen.
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@roissy:
a lot of people seem to be calling for more posts on how to transfer from opener to what comes next. you write a lot on openers, on how to follow-up, and on general alpha traits. i’d be interested to hear more of your thoughts on building comfort.
i imagine that building comfort is a sticking point for a lot of guys. it can be relatively easy to get that initial spark of interest, but then there’s a delicate balance between losing her interest to twelve other clowns sweating her and smothering her cause you’re afraid to let her out of your sight. how long do you try to keep the initial conversation going? once you leave, what’s the best way to re-establish contact? how do you transition when there are always cockblocking friends lurking about? also, what do you think is unique about building comfort in DC verses other cities?
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goldenseed, avoid self-deprecating humor at all costs. It is not your friend.
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Can somebody please de-construct the game of Jim Halpert, Dwight Schrute and Andy Bernard from “The Office”
Every girl I know get WET for Jim. Without putting much thought into this… Im guessing its because he is tall, funny, and laid back, confident without being arrogant.. etc. He isnt bad looking but certainly no stud. Before getting all beta about Pam, the show implied that Jim pretty much slayed it with chicks… he was always dating someone. I guess the main point is he is just cool, and confidant in his own skin.
Dwight i= total alpha
Andy = beta… see last weeks episode.
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Tenmagnet and Cajun have a video on how to game if you are a goodlooking guy:
http://www.tenmagnet.com/2008/12/07/cajun-tenmagnet-mysterymethod-pua-podcast/
They advocate going direct if you are good looking, and also note that getting the player vibe can be a problem for better looking guys.
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DF –
Explain?
I’ve found it effective, in small doses, as part of a larger repertoire of humor and conversation. As long as you are subcommunicating that you are indeed joking and that, you are so confidant in yourself you can be a little vulnerable for a laugh. Obviously this is dependent on the stage of interaction, comfort you reached with the girl already.
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The part that bugs me is that Charlie’s attempts at being good/beta are so out of character that they feel like those episodes were written by someone other than the usual writer.
IIRC, unlike British television series, aren’t most American shows written by a whole crew of writers? Even on the Simpsons, some fans are able to determine who wrote an episode simply by determining the type of humor exhibited by the characters.
Of course, one could just simply say that the writers are trying to mix it up, and just switch roles to prevent the show from going stale.
Urban, walkable environments with lots of non-fat, non-obese, relatively feminine white girls.
So instead you get a bunch of so-so looking feminine girls who probably even more dependent on you.
I’d love to see someone create a series of ten face-shots that represent women on each of the points of the 1-10 scale. Pics of celebrities, random women from the internet, etc.
I prefer to use a different scale without numbers. Girls are either “hot and bangable”, beautiful, pretty and special (read: nails, heels, fashionable clothing, large ass or tits to compensate), pretty (read: not ugly, but just bland and plain), and ugly. It’s admittedly highly subjective though, but it seems to work in describing my reactions to women.
Which is why I’m puzzled why complimenting and supplicating to a girl one likes seems to be the default move of many males.
Some of us feel better when we do it, but since you’re not a beta, you wouldn’t understand. 🙂
Women have a psychological need to feel inadequate before their man. This must be demonstrated in one way or another, otherwise attraction just won’t burst forth.
I suspect that maybe why non-date girlfriend may have had some feelings towards me at the beginning, but for a status whore like myself, women who feel inadequate before me just sets off alarm bells about their status. In other words, I don’t want to be around those women since nobody wants to associate with people who are beneath them.
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@ DF:
i think self-deprecation is for guys what certain fashions are for women. for instance, there are some women who are good-looking enough to pull off the thriftstore/nerdy/granny look that’s so popular amongst our urban hipsters. for them it works, but when you see an unattractive girl wearing the same unflattering clothes it’s just a tremendous turn-off. for the good-looking girls it’s almost a game: “i’m so hot that i can even make these sexless clothes look good.”
if you’ve got enough going for you, then self-deprecation can be effective. hugh grant characters always seem to make effective use of it, but girls are going to dig him right off the bat. in those cases, self-deprecation can work to disarm a woman and make it easier for them to relate to you, but like other things that roissy has written about you need to certify your alpha cred first.
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“ME: [after girl bumps into me] Whoa, if you wanted to meet me, you could just say Hi.”
Classic, and best portrayed by Clint Eastwood in High Plains Drifter. From around 3:00 to him zipping up his pants after giving her an earth shaker at 6:00. Frankly, this scene is all any man needs to know about women. A 3 minute distillation of the mating practices of homo sapiens.
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“I’d love to see someone create a series of ten face-shots that represent women on each of the points of the 1-10 scale. Pics of celebrities, random women from the internet, etc.”
Someone did this several years ago by morphing together rated photos from Hot or Not.
1-10 scale
10s averaged by age
10s averaged by race
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“I’d love to see someone create a series of ten face-shots that represent women on each of the points of the 1-10 scale. Pics of celebrities, random women from the internet, etc.”
No sweat, someone did this several years ago by morphing together rated photos from Hot or Not.
1-10 scale
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Lance, don’t overthink it and stop watching bullshit beta movies for masculine traits ’cause you won’t find any. You’ll wind up confused. Watch classics if you need examples of real men. I’m all about the old school.
goldenseed, in PUA parlance you need to demonstrate higher value and the subtle ques you communicate when using self-deprecating humor is just the opposite of that. You don’t need that kind of humor when you’ve reached a stage in the convo that you can show a little vulnerability and with that you must be careful.
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he only 1’s worth doing are #1 and Nigella.
Sara Ramirez, Jennifer Hudson, and Missy Elliot (current weight & stylist) are doable depending on one’s tastes in non-white women. Keely Shaye Smith and Adele seem to have the cute, friendly girl look that some guys may enjoy. If you’re into the chubby girls*, their choices weren’t that bad, and I wouldn’t mind them, especially if one adds a nice pair of heels and some acrylic nails to the mix.
*Those girls are at the upper most limit of what I can find beautiful…
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i meant “subtle cues” in my post not “ques”, typing a bit quick.
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Most women now know about negs. I think the best pick up line is telling a story, make it short and cute like something that happened when you were a kid, etc.
Women LOVE stories and secrets. This is the best way to trick us into infatuation, but please don’t try to fool the nice girls.
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David. That’s exactly the difference. Lots of girls with feminine nails, high heels and clothing in Eastern Europe, not so many in the West.
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You need to have a very strong frame to pull these off. A lot of beginners try this style of opining, but are so nervous talking to girls that they get completely blown out and they start to think that gaming is a bunch of shit.
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David. That’s exactly the difference. Lots of girls with feminine nails, high heels and clothing in Eastern Europe, not so many in the West.
The problem is that said Eastern European women tend to be uglier than the girls who wear heels and nails here in the states. Hell, I’d rather do a black chick than a sizable number of said EE women…
Plus, admittedly, I can understand why women don’t like the heels, nails, and clothes. It’s not cheap, it’s not comfortable, and it can do damage in the long term. Non-date can’t use acrylic nails because they eat away at her natural nails, but natural nails can break. Her feet hurt after thirty minutes of wearing anything over an inch, and her mother (an immigrant from Greece) is stuck wearing hideous “old people shoes” at the age of 62 because she spent her youth wearing heels which has scared off her daughter into Uggs and ballet flats.
Plus, as one woman noted, she doesn’t bother wearing nice stuff to work since there are no (alpha) men to show off to.
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Can somebody please de-construct the game of Jim Halpert, Dwight Schrute and Andy Bernard from “The Office”
Goldenseed: I had actually meaning to do that for some time (I would also be including Michael) and post it on my blog. Now that I’m confident someone will appreciate it, I have the incentive. Give me some way I can sent it to you when I’m finished.
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200 dollar pen is no different than 80,000 dollar car or 3 million dollar house. No one needs it, but its fun to have.
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Three words: “Its not Everest”
Picking up women is not getting to the top of Everest…..
This fact is often lost on otherwise educated, logical, hard-working men.
Yes, negs, gambits, card tricks all have their merits….but are largely small change
The big fish (9-10s) will only react to a sales pitch.
Picking up wome is largely sales:
-#s game
-3 P’s of marketing (price, product, place)
-Closing
Adjust yourself (Product) to the market-Place (venue, online, geography) and stick to your Price ($, hours, cut-losses).
Video
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I have very little experience picking up girls in bar settings, but in example I was in a co-ed restroom (we weren’t in the US) and as I was washing my hands I saw two girls, one of whom was trying to fix/complaining about her hair.
I made some comment like “You girls are ridiculous how much you care about your hair.” She spent the rest of the evening with me, and we hooked up later that night.
She claims it was because she was “so happy to find someone who spoke English” (BS, since the place was full of English-speakers), but I give a lot of credit to the tone I set in the opener.
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Roissy —
My job is mostly business marketing and consulting sales. Most anything you write is easily translatable into quick tips for sales people that I manage and train. Can’t lie — definitely get some of my work inspiration from you. Many people who buy my product tend to be either youngish recent marketing grads from good schools who get marketing jobs at ad agencies and large corporations (have no authority but their cooperation is vital b/c they report to a boss who approves spends) OR their elder variant — older cat women, usually single or divorced who actually wield considerable budget authority. With the older type, I need to strategically flirt. The younger — neg VERY carefully.
In my experience, you gloss over one thing in your post. Time and time again I’ve taught certain beta-to-omega leaning newbie salesguys this asshole-ish method to pile through an INSANE number of leads. Unfortunately, it gets excellent results ONLY if you’ve got an excellent ability to strike and read tone (fucking rare). It’s a different approach than competitors who fawn over every single marketing female thing who feigns even the lamest sales interest.
But if you’ve got a beta/omega, especially one with particularly poor tone perception, this is prescription for utter disaster. If you’re applying it to business like I am, it can have some pretty serious consequences. The beta applies a rapid fire assault without any idea when to switch gear. The bitches end up getting pissed and gives the company a bad name (at least until she’s replaced by the next marketing bitch–turnover is a bitch in this industry).
Anyways, I think the non-business real life lesson here. something like: negging is an advanced tool, even if it’s an essential skill.
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Lance, don’t overthink it and stop watching bullshit beta movies for masculine traits ’cause you won’t find any.
thanks for the advice, bud, but i’m alright.
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“But if you’ve got a beta/omega, especially one with particularly poor tone perception, this is prescription for utter disaster. If you’re applying it to business like I am, it can have some pretty serious consequences. The beta applies a rapid fire assault without any idea when to switch gear. The bitches end up getting pissed and gives the company a bad name (at least until she’s replaced by the next marketing bitch–turnover is a bitch in this industry).”
What PUA ever claimed betas are going to go out and immediately use these strategies correctly? The whole point is to fail hundreds of disastrous times. The Mystery Method straight up tells men to make hundreds of approaches a month, so beginners can fail and fail and fail and learn to calibrate their tone perception. Even autistic people learn social skills with enough trial and error.
A company hires enough fucks-ups, it soon goes under. A beta makes enough fuck-ups, he can just go to a different bar. The consequences are not comparable.
Failure is bad for business, but is necessary for education. That’s why people generally require 16-20 years of education before employment.
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I remember when Mystery Method was being circulated around my office a year of so ago on pdf file. It was my first introduction to Game, and some of my coworkers were equally fascinated. After all, we’d never resort to PAYING for a book about seducing women, but since it was in front of our faces, why not see what it had to say? (We have all since lost such reservations) We had some group discussions to kick feedback around, and one of my buddies, E, shared a story from his training.
E and his cousin were both sent out to California for the week and were in a class of about 30. They noticed one particularly hot girl to target, and made sure to go to the same club that night (most of the group went out every night). So they walk up to the bar where she is standing with a few other girls; his cousin walks past her and goes “PSSHHH nice shirt!” and keeps walking a bit further away and faces forward to order his drink. (Apparently it was one of those square tops that cut away the entire back, somewhat fashionable for a short time) My friend E follows him, after turning to the group of girls and saying “Oh, sorry about him, he’s kind of a jerk sometimes, don’t be mad.” That’s about the end of the field report, except for that E’s cousin is the one who winds up banging this chick.
With those three words (really only two formative words!) he was able to disarm the girl and demonstrate higher value. However, it might have been E’s beta wingmanship that sealed the deal, as he also demonstrated that his cousin was a leader of men and that his own apologies were subordinated to his followers. E quickly saw the error of his ways after reading Mystery. Meanwhile, our small group of assholes has deified the “PSSSH! Nice shirt!” opener and continues to use it often. My buddy picked up a girl off the sidewalk while walking home from a bar at the end of the night. She had taken off her fancy high heels and was tiptoeing barefoot on the sidewalk. A quick “PSSSH! Nice shoes!” and he was making out with her in a cab back to his place within five minutes, and he banged her within a half an hour. Also, we try to pull out the wingman-apology-for-negs when the dynamic is convenient.
Needless to say, these are not Tier 1 girls we’re talking about.
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I’m on the side of applying negs very carefully. When in doubt, choose something that other people wouldn’t normally notice. This is part of my (admittedly bumbling because of the vaj) training of my friends. Whenever they notice a hot girl they need to find something wrong with her. If the answer is too banal, I tell them to look closer. They’re getting pretty good at doing this more quickly.
One good one a friend of mine came up with is in response to the trend of whispy highlights that make a woman look like a forest witch in the wrong light.
It starts with ,”Wow, you look great for your age…” and ends with, “…but in the moonlight (or club lights) it just looks like you have alot of gray hair.” Then they start to admit that maybe they went too light, and so on.
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A neg opener is tough. You could get the cops called on you.
I don’t think any PUA is doing this in the field to any large degree.
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It must be a cultural thing. But I simply have no personal experience nor any of my friends of negging a a girl’s appearance and banging her. And it is quite common to get into trouble with it likeTood said above.
negging her style (hair, shoes, clothes) is common at least in the PUA group. But you can’t neg what she can’t change.
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@ Zdeno
“And don’t you quantum physicists do crazy things like put kittens in boxes with poison gas?”
Hahaha unlucky mate! I had a very, very drunk night in college when I repeatedly referred to “Feynman’s cat” in my mixed group. I had a lone friend who understood where I was trying to go, but he preferred to listen to me continue to drop pearls of wisdom rather than save me.
A famous failed pickup from my own catalog: I went back to campus to see the first college football game at the end of August this past year. I opened every single set by asking if the group thought $15.06 was too high for Lehman Bros. to have closed at that Friday. When I invariably got either a bunch of blank stares or dirty looks, I would follow up with something like, “Of course it is! Lehman is FUCKED!” So, not a good pick up story, but a terrific legend to take back home from the trip: ‘The night that Cannon opened every 21 year old girl by telling them LEH would hit zero soon.’
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Tood, I’m not sure if you could be more wrong.
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I find it beyond belief that you can say to a girl that she looks older than her age would suggest, no matter what words you choose and how tender you say it, and avoid being hit in the face or having the bouncers called.
Unless it is a Gannon scenario. I went to a club with some friends (3 guys, 5 girls) and one of the girls was underage (17 at the time, she had to be at least 18 to enter the club, so she used an ID of a girlfriend who had just completed 18). Then I said to her (I was 24 at the time) that she looked older and more experienced than 17, among other things. Didn’t bang her, but I kissed her that night. Outside such scenario I think it is amazing that it can work
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Gig, in my observation, it works so long as it’s not worded as an outright insult unless the girl has actually done something to deserve being insulted, and it’s something others would praise her for or not really notice.
Sometimes a well executed neg shows a girl that you’re less of a sheep, which is an easy shortcut to showing that you’re more alpha.
Of course, this won’t help if you actually don’t notice what’s wrong with her, but if you do, have it in the arsenal when you want to stand out in the crowd.
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In college I was friends with a true natural, with unbelieveable instincts for game. One time he came up to us in a small group and sat down, there were two cute girls with us. I knew them, he didn’t really. After sitting down, he used a line, and to this day, I’ve never seen one line just dismantle a girl’s entire mental machinery like this:
“Hey [Girl’s name], you know what? You dress exactly like my mother.”
I’ve never seen anything be over so fast; it was like a secret death blow from an ancient ninjitsu manuscript. She freaked out. Is that an insult? Well, if you’re saying MY mom has no style it was. Then she’s asking him if his mom is hot. He’s like what the fuck is wrong with you, I don’t know if my mom is hot. Her panties were all abunch, she was all over him. But she was like a trapped rat. Amazing.
That was the day I learned the power of what I later (10 years later) read on the internet was called a “neg”. It is so sacred a line that I’ve actually never used it. Somebody should.
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Howard, that’s pretty much brilliant. Of course, you have to know how to pull it off
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““Hey [Girl’s name], you know what? You dress exactly like my mother.””
Now THAT’s actually a good one. I will refine it a bit more to say ‘aunt’. You can use variations like saying ‘Your hairstyle is like my aunt’, or ‘your shoes are like my mother’s’.
Note, however, that it is not an opener. It is a very early stage neg, as used by Howard Roark’s friend.
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“Sometimes a well executed neg shows a girl that you’re less of a sheep, which is an easy shortcut to showing that you’re more alpha.”
I agree with Cthuhlu – it is not about insulting a woman, but rather simply not being a Beta who is easily wrapped around her little finger.
Thus, negs that are polite but exude ‘amused mastery’ are better than negs that are rude.
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Those are negs, are you serious? LOL they sound cute actually… those aren’t how I imagined negs. at all (what I imagined: “Flat chested women are ugly… how does it feel to be ugly?”
Hello… negs sounds like good old fashioned TEASING! It’s a fun way of flirting with someone.
I don’t think I’m against the neg. any more. Only very sensitive people can’t take comments like those… I think the back and forth can indeed be fun.
The horse story is kinda long though, I would definitely be like where the hell is this guy going with this blablabla… but in the end it would be funny.
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““Flat chested women are ugly… how does it feel to be ugly?””
It is never necessary to use that sort of approach. Who told you to use that sort of approach?
A neg is something like :
“Your nose twitches when you talk. It’s kinda cute – reminds me of this hamster I once had”.
THAT’s a neg.
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OK my example was bad… but a B/C cup girl could very well feel flat compared to what’s usually on TV.
Even this you dress like my Mom thing doesn’t sound so bad… it’s more like hm what does he mean by that? Either he’s one of those guys who adores his mom or you’re sweet and demure (like Jackie O) just like the great women from his mom’s generation… or his mom’s a skank (if you are showing off the goods).
Any way… why are there people making $ off telling guys how to tease girls? No wonder that 8 year old kid who gives relationship advice is so famous…
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The over-arching philosophy of negs :
Treat her as though she is your little sister. Tease her in a playful way that makes her want to gain YOUR approval.
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Understood it better, I meant. First way makes me sound dumber than I am…
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Still giggling over some of these… #3 about “if you wanted to meet you could just say hi” reminds me those old black and white movies… like you’re the Marilyn the clutzy cutie and to his happy surprise you bumped into him – eureka he has a chance to talk to you now 🙂
I guess some of the most charming guys I’ve met did do a lot of teasing a.k.a. negs. I just thought they were fun and like to joke, compared to the typical serious intellectual and boooooring DC lawyer/IMF banker/NY quant/Maryland engineer/anywere Doctor.
I think most girls know if you take the effort to talk to her, even to say something subtly “negative,” obviously you are attracted. Guys don’t waste effort and energy talking to ugly girls or girls they don’t like right? Unless it’s practice… for the girls they do like. (By “like” I mean attraction to last one night or a lifetime)
Fascinating stuff!
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“Treat her as though she is your little sister. Tease her in a playful way that makes her want to gain YOUR approval.”
Exactly.
The funny thing about Game in General and Negs specifically is that this is how most people acted towards girls in Elementary School.
Most people are conditioned over time to stop acting like this.
As for me?
I am still in third grade on the playground smoking cigarettes at recess.
And swooping mad girls.
– MPM
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Zdeno:
But enough of this frivolity. Do you guys think that there are genetically-determined differences in average IQs across race? Or what? Also, what’s up with feminists?
lol
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“Also, what’s up with feminists?”
Feminists are to the average woman what the :
Suicide bomber is to Islam
Gangsta Rapper is to African Americans
MS-13 is to Hispanic Americans
What Berkeley is to the Bay Area
Nazis were to Germans
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FWIW, “the Mentalist” had a whole plot line over PUA.
Characters admitted it worked.
Baker plays amused mastery quite well, the “Cho” character who is all Jack Webb Dragnet did a hilarious (and effective) pickup bit. Imagine “Just the Facts Ma’am” but as a pick-up line. Bizarrely funny but … interesting.
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I saw Coraline over the weekend. Worth the price of admission as a visual spectacle, but what a disaster in its presentation of gender roles. The women act like asshole males, the males are a pair of omegas and a mock-alpha. Yeesh.
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Punching women in the face is good because it combines negging and kino and shows you’re alpha. Then you can tell them that they must have bought their clothes from a toilet store, and ask them if you can pee in their butt.
I’ve had a 100% success rate using this patented technique.
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watching bullshit beta movies for masculine traits = beta
watching classic movies for masculine traits = alpha
watching beta movies = beta
watching VHS movies = alpha
watching Blu-Ray DVD movies = omega
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“I’ve had a 100% success rate using this patented technique”
then, after posting this, you went to the door where the guy who would set your ABtronicfitness was waiting. While he worked you kept a close eye on him, your panties got wet, but you had to leave because the KFC delivery had arrived
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All of these presume the girl continues to talk to you after you’ve insulted her. I walk off and leave him talking to himself. If he follows, I look puzzled, say something nonsensical like, “Oh yeah, thank you so much. I never come here…” smile as if this a normal thing, and walk off again.
You’re right to screen for someone who’s inexperienced enough to take your crap. You’re wrong if you think any girl who lets you hang around after that thinks you’re anything special. At that point, you’re just someone who hits the insecurities she hasn’t had time to grow out of yet.
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Here’s the origin of the “If you wanted to meet me, you could just say ‘hi'” line:
The part related to the line starts at about the 3:00 mark and the logical conclusion goes to about the 6:40 mark. But watch the whole bit from the beginning. The fact that he has just killed several men is what makes the woman want to fuck him.
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Classic, and best portrayed by Clint Eastwood in High Plains Drifter. From around 3:00 to him zipping up his pants after giving her an earth shaker at 6:00. Frankly, this scene is all any man needs to know about women. A 3 minute distillation of the mating practices of homo sapiens.
What? In the clip you linked, the girl actually bumps into Eastwood on purpose and initiates a conversation because she wants him. That would never happen to the readership of this blog. All Eastwood has to do is grunt a few times and drag the “resisting” girl into the barn.
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I see Laikastes beat me to it.
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[…] openers are in fact hilarious. Here are two: “Hi, my name is Thursday. I thought you were cute and wanted to meet you. But, before you talk […]
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I think I P&D’d dizzy8 after I saw her do that to a guy. saw a girl maybe a 7 do that just about verbatim, she quashed him and then…
my neg involved something about how she controlled a situation just like my mother…
see “rat in a trap” reference earlier.
lol
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seems to me the key to these negs is that they are ambiguous in tone and the girl is driven crazy now trying to determine if they are compliments or insults.
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I can’t see women in an urban setting responding to an unpleasant comment by hitting someone or calling a bouncer over. there’s no way.
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Howard,
The best natural alpha I ever met would literally snap at women and shout “hey” at them. He did it with such a burning smile and natural dominance that it worked. I think it takes the place of a neg with a normal human. It showed his confidence and it made the women question their value.
He was absolutely brilliant and mystifying to watch. I could be working a woman with openers, stories, jokes, and getting mediocre response. He would walk up next to me, just silent, and the woman would beam at him.
But damn, that dude was a natural. I don’t think any PUA could work his game successfully. Such a total mindfuck. So brilliant. So discouraging.
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jackson
It showed his confidence and it made the women question their value.
…..So brilliant. So discouraging.
Why discouraging? You don’t like to see women mind fucked? I thought the guy was “brilliant”? Which is it? So many of the guys here are so terminally confused. Are you good guys, bad guys, or just animals?
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sara I,
It’s discouraging because it can’t be replicated. I’ll never see anything like that again, and I’ll certainly never be able to pull it off myself.
Running into the Uber Mensch early in life can be a discouraging experience.
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sara I, the lyric stealer….
what kind of BS is that for you not to even have the decency to attribute to michael hutchence what was his due – give the alpha singer, that you are slavishly quoting and misusing, his attribution…
… then go play with your cats.
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[…] Freud’s age old question “what do women really want?” in the comments to my post praising the neg as an opener: This is what women want. They WANT to feel unworthy of a guy and then win him over. Attraction […]
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What is the 1980s psychic abortion doctor opener?
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[…] I, on the other hand, needed a couple of stiff drinks for this challenge. Although the AO sounds incredibly easy on paper, when you are standing there alone in a semi-crowded bar about to take your first steps toward your target, the lines you have practiced saying by yourself suddenly jam up in your throat. The AO is no ordinary opener; I was feeling intense apprehension the likes of which I hadn’t felt since I sat next to THE CUTEST GIRL IN THE WORLD in sixth grade English class and negged her pink backpack. […]
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[…] neg is defined as a mildly negative comment that is supposed to function in picking up (examples provided by one of the guys I think drove this irriation from Tyler and Andrew). I suspect it would […]
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[…] Rochester is an expert in the fine art of the neg. He is also a specialist in creating an emotional connection. And of course we can’t forget […]
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As a female, I can tell you that self-deprecating humour will get you some self-sex. Sure, I will laugh as you make a fool out of yourself, but that’s about it.
The only self-deprecating humour that I would put up with is the one about your obviously positive traits. There’s a difference in between an entertainer and a clown(laughing with and at you). I’ll follow this comment up with another one later. 🙂
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“Tood
A neg opener is tough. You could get the cops called on you.
I don’t think any PUA is doing this in the field to any large degree.”
Beta attitude… lol. You fear some chick calling the cops on you? If you’re charismatic, you could even get the cops to laugh at her for it.
StickLongWofl, you mean 4Ps of marketing. Product, place(distribution), price, promotion.
sara, I don’t get why a man would commit to a woman who is spreading her legs outside of marriage anyway. Women want commitment, men want sex. By having sex only inside marriage, both are happy.
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