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Chateau Heartiste

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Justice Is Served »

Why I Left My Fat Wife

February 18, 2009 by CH

I’m about to reveal something of myself most of you don’t know.

A few years ago, my wife, Marie, and I were at one of those hip downtown restaurants sipping mangotinis and nibbling on injera bread when one of my bosses appeared with his thin trophy wife in tow and patted my shoulder. When I introduced him to Marie, he naturally looked her up and down. I froze.

Marie and my boss exchanged some small talk but I could see behind the polite chit chat that my boss’ eyes flickered with a hint of disgust. I noticed Marie hadn’t put down her fork, upon which was perched a wobbly chunk of eggplant.

“Well, it was good meeting you,” my boss said, cutting short the conversation.

Marie looked at me and shrugged. “He’s not a very friendly guy, huh?” she said, as my colleague walked off to his table.

“Um, yeah I suppose not,” I said, knowing that was a lie. My boss was actually one of the friendliest men I knew. I understood why he walked off so abruptly. My boss may be friendly, but he’s also a winner, and winners avoid fraternizing with losers. My boss took one look at my fat wife, and recoiled from the stench of loserness. Inside, I was mortified.

Technically, I had it all back then, including a gorgeous toddler and a cool job.

What I didn’t have was a wife I felt proud of.

God knows I wanted to be proud of her. Marie is smart and funny and the only person I know who gets off on explaining why the Twilight books are more feminist than vampiric. And if you asked me about somebody else’s stay-at-home wife, I’d be all over the subject, spouting statistics about how important the mother-daughter bond is to girls’ self-esteem and how limiting it is to expect men to mind the home front. But living with her as she became fatter and fatter was completely different.

Maybe it’s because the plan wasn’t for Marie to lose her looks so rapidly. I went to work when she started graduate school, thinking that I’d head back for my own Ph.D. once she was done. I envisioned us as hard-core SWPLs, reading passages from Joyce to each other while I put together a collection of sexy lingerie for her to wear as we reenacted every sex scene from Victorian era period films. Instead, I fell in love with my first job at a modeling agency, and eventually, after a few promotions, I found myself working as a photographer for a fashion magazine.

Things went less smoothly for Marie. By the time we found out she was pregnant – three years into our marriage – she’d been working at a job teaching film for six months and was beginning to gain weight from all the take-out she ate. She began packing on the pounds by the week, and it affected everything about her – her mood, job performance, health, sexiness. The lingerie I had bought her no longer fit, lost in the folds of her burgeoning ass. Still, the minute her pregnancy test flashed its double pink lines at me, I knew I needed to work even harder at my job to ensure my child had the best chance in life.

I worked late nights for six months after my daughter was born while Marie continued, yes, bloating up. In 18 months, she gained 40 pounds. Meanwhile, I was being pursued by the models I photographed. Eventually, I flirted with some of them.

I felt like myself again – flirting, feeling horny, loving the sight of beautiful women, doing the witty-banter thing in the halls with the models. But my marriage started to fall apart. I felt guilty about being glad to go back to work, and in my head, I made it Marie’s fault. Because she had gotten fat, I blamed her when I was working late and had to miss the baby’s bedtime; it was her fault I had to go in early every day, since the fact that she couldn’t stay slim meant that I couldn’t stop myself from checking out other women. And when I got home, I seethed. I couldn’t walk across the living room without tripping over a half-eaten apple pie or an ice cream scoop. The baby was in the same little nightgown she’d slept in the night before. There wasn’t a hint of food in the fridge; Marie had eaten it all. She was home all day-couldn’t she at least run a few laps on the freaking treadmill?

Eventually, communication between Marie and me deteriorated to the point where all we talked about was the baby. Had she gotten enough sleep? What had she eaten for lunch? How could she have run through an entire value pack of diapers in one weekend? “Wait till I tell you what she did,” she’d say every once in a while, as she gazed adoringly at the baby and I gazed around the room to avoid looking at my wife’s Pillsbury rolls. In those moments – watching Marie gently rock her to sleep while singing “Punk Rock Girl” – I was reminded why I had once thought Marie was the sexiest woman in the world. But our sex life was in ruins; I spent all my time in the computer den (AKA pornatorium) or at work-sponsored happy hours with the models. I chalked it up to the transition period all new parents go through. Then one day, I realized it had been almost a year since Marie and I had made love.

Sometimes she’d say, “I really think things would be better for us if we could just be intimate again.” Or she’d put the baby to bed early and come into the living room with two glasses of wine and a book of poetry – our classic recipe for seduction – but just the thought of me touching her cottage cheese thighs and lint-encrusted belly rolls made me recoil. “Maybe I’m just not a sexual person anymore,” I told her, and I honestly meant it. The truth is, I wasn’t attracted to her anymore. It wasn’t that she’d changed on the inside – she still had the same sense of humor, kind heart, and sharp intellect that had literally made me fall in love when I first met her. But in my heart and my head, I’d neutralized her as a sexual being. I wanted to be overwhelmed by the sheer power of her femininity in the bedroom, but I wasn’t. Because I felt like the dumpster diver in our relationship.

We went to see a therapist. “Don’t you think I resent you for how easy it is for you to stay thin?” Marie asked me during one session. “You have these great genes, and I’m home like a slave, running errands, taking care of your shit, and you can’t even spare me five minutes of sex at the end of the day.” I think it was the first time I’d actually listened to what she had to say in years. She said that she was angry with me for always staying out late and partying with slender models, and angry with herself for not being able to turn me on anymore. She said she didn’t appreciate being treated like a nanny-slash-housekeeper-slash-fat disgusting crap to be ignored in favor of porn. But what alternatives was she offering? I had ever so gently suggested she would feel better and our marriage would be happier if she lost the weight she had gained and slimmed back down to the hot wife I knew when I first fell in love with her and married her, but instead all she did was get fatter. We separated a few months later.

In retrospect, I realized I had this preconceived idea of what a sexy, attractive woman should be like. I imagined being married to, well, a good-looking, thin wife with a shapely hourglass figure. Someone whose attractive womanly physique looks pleasant to other people as well as to me. Someone who walks out the door with a sexy dress on, high heels, and a tight ass. Someone who turns heads. Does that make me a sexist? “I always felt embarrassed and guilty – you had all these preconditions for me that I felt like I wasn’t living up to,” Marie said to me after our divorce.

So nobody was more surprised than I was when I went ahead and fell for another funny, bright, kind woman like Marie.

Here’s the difference, though: Magdalena knows what men want – and it’s not a poetry reading over bon bons sitting on the increasingly concave couch. She knows men want to make sweet love to sexy, slender women who can wear the hot lingerie he buys for her without looking like a walrus tangled in a ball of string. Playing with my daughter or painting or translating the writings of Pablo Neruda is fine, but it is only a garnish to the main marriage course – hot, steamy, passionate love with a physically attractive woman. There’s nothing food-obsessed or self-loathing about her. When Magdalena and I are cooking dinner together on Friday nights in a kitchen devoid of cheetos and tubs of Haagen Daz, or trying to drink coffee in bed on Sunday mornings while my daughter dances around us, I’m so attracted to her that it’s all I can do not to rip her clothes off then and there.

Put it this way: Whether it’s me or the sexy figure she’s keeping, I think it’s damn sexy.

This article was sent to various women’s magazines for publication.

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Posted in Beta, Hungry Hungry Hippos, Marriage Is For Chumps, Self-aggrandizement | 402 Comments

402 Responses

  1. on February 18, 2009 at 11:40 am anon

    This has already been published as a novel. You need to read more.

    LikeLike


  2. on February 18, 2009 at 11:41 am JD

    So how has this impacted your relationship with your daughter?

    LikeLike


  3. on February 18, 2009 at 11:44 am Purple Saguaro

    Lucky for the fat ex, I was there for her.

    LikeLike


  4. on February 18, 2009 at 11:50 am monohechomierda

    As a good friend of mine says, “Marriage is not about sex”….and he’s right.

    LikeLike


  5. on February 18, 2009 at 11:51 am cigstache

    You don’t know what you’ve been missing

    LikeLike


  6. on February 18, 2009 at 11:55 am de Tocqueville

    Brilliant satire of the Marie Claire piece. You expose the hypocrisy of women demanding alpha husbands while not tolerating men who want hot, performing wives.

    LikeLiked by 1 person


  7. on February 18, 2009 at 11:55 am Seeking Alpha

    A wife has an obligation to stay sexy. A man has an obligation to pay the bills. That’s that.

    LikeLiked by 2 people


  8. on February 18, 2009 at 11:55 am Matt Frost

    I’ve been reading this blog for about 6 months and if that story’s true I think I found a new depth in what you’ve been writing. Cheers to not compromising.

    LikeLiked by 1 person


  9. on February 18, 2009 at 12:01 pm Anon2

    Ah man you’ve outdone yourself this time. That was fucking hilarious.

    LikeLiked by 1 person


  10. on February 18, 2009 at 12:01 pm Tim Price

    Dude, this was deep. It’s like i looked into your soul…and found the horndog I’ve come to appreciate.

    LikeLike


  11. on February 18, 2009 at 12:02 pm Joe

    http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/articlemc.aspx?cp-documentid=8319151

    LikeLike


  12. on February 18, 2009 at 12:05 pm Seeking Alpha

    I could be wrong, but I don’t think this is Roissy’s writing.

    LikeLiked by 1 person


  13. on February 18, 2009 at 12:07 pm Virgle Kent

    I have never been more proud to call you friend than now, you took a piece and flipped it to show how most guys feel. This post was funny but at the same time there was so much real talk here, I had to read it again.

    LikeLike


  14. on February 18, 2009 at 12:08 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Great satire. I thought it was real until someone pointed out you were parodying the Marie Clare article!

    LikeLiked by 1 person


  15. on February 18, 2009 at 12:09 pm podunk

    Brilliant satire of the Marie Claire piece.

    I thought I sensed satire, but thank you for tipping me off. Why I Left My Beta Husband

    LikeLike


  16. on February 18, 2009 at 12:10 pm lf

    am i the only one who gets the feeling that there’s an epilogue missing here, something about “mark” descending into alcoholism and killing the entire family?

    LikeLike


  17. on February 18, 2009 at 12:10 pm ironrailsironweights

    But did she have a GNP?

    Peter

    LikeLike


  18. on February 18, 2009 at 12:15 pm Anon

    You should really send that satire piece to women’s mags.

    LikeLike


  19. on February 18, 2009 at 12:17 pm DF

    Awesome. That is all.

    LikeLike


  20. on February 18, 2009 at 12:18 pm Gak Flower

    Seeking, you are wrong.

    LikeLike


  21. on February 18, 2009 at 12:29 pm Seeking Alpha

    What I meant was, I didn’t think it was a true story of Roissy’s the way other commenters made it out to be. That’s clear now that the other article has been forwarded around.

    LikeLike


  22. on February 18, 2009 at 12:35 pm Colin Bowel

    Nothing is more beta than raising another man’s child.

    LikeLike


  23. on February 18, 2009 at 12:40 pm RO

    I had your exact same story ten years ago. I was married ten years.
    It has nothing to do with her dress size. It’s her self esteem and personal liability. I’ve watched it in my married friends, as their lives went on.

    If you let the weight issue continue and pretend nothing is wrong, other things will develop with her. Depression. Lower self esteem.
    The blame for her unhappiness. Financial debt issues. Run from girls like this.

    Bottom line: there are two kinds of people. Those that own up for their happiness, their problems life and pursue happiness. And those that don’t. Believe it. You are way better off and will be for years to come.

    A married friend who’s nearly fifty tells me of his wife “It has to do with their mental compass”. They like to take care of themselves or they don’t. You can’t counsel her into it. You can’t motivate her. It’s like changing her eye color.

    LikeLike


  24. on February 18, 2009 at 12:42 pm Old Married Woman

    Good send-up.

    And surprisingly compassionate… the original article garnered scads of disgust heaped upon its author, who was actually just being five times more honest about her life than most people can ever stand to be.

    LikeLike


  25. on February 18, 2009 at 12:43 pm anony

    Kudos, that was very clever and humorous, second only to purple saguaro. 🙂 Lots of nuanced points.

    I’m a normal weight wife with a husband who’s packed on the groceries. He’s tall and genetically muscular, but, beyond 50 extra pounds, I can’t feel him through six inches of fat. You mentioned “gentle suggestions”, Good. The next step is lead by example. I’ve encouraged him to ride bike, run, x-country ski. I nagged, but that only generated animosity. I trim calories from prepared meals, and don’t bring ice cream into the house.

    Lastly, we’ve discovered an experience that has helped him lose noticeable weight, but even under the cover of anonymity, I don’t care to share.

    LikeLike


  26. on February 18, 2009 at 12:46 pm Old Married Woman

    aw, c’mon, anony. For the benefit of other wives with the tubby-hub problem?

    LikeLike


  27. on February 18, 2009 at 12:55 pm longstinger

    Bottom line: there are two kinds of people. Those that own up for their happiness, their problems life and pursue happiness. And those that don’t. Believe it.

    Agreed, but I wonder if a man can ever escape being held accountable for his woman’s emotional states, even if she takes responsibility for taking care of her body.

    LikeLike


  28. on February 18, 2009 at 12:57 pm redhead

    too funny!
    I feel sorry for those that didn’t realize it was a satire.

    LikeLike


  29. on February 18, 2009 at 1:01 pm Anonymous

    kick a fucking bitch

    word…

    LikeLike


  30. on February 18, 2009 at 1:01 pm JLK

    America is a society full of highly insecure and depressed people. In addition, the food situation in America is atrocious – all unhealthy and bad foods are promoted and cheap while good healthy foods are expensive…it’s all upside down, and it is NOT like this in other countries; the food industry and medical complex WANT people to be fat, unhealthy, and unhappy because that means more money for them.

    Highly insecure and depressed people often get fat because it offers them a false sense of security.

    Blame the collapsing society which is full of insecurity and depression for the fatness, not the person.

    LikeLike


  31. on February 18, 2009 at 1:02 pm JLK

    America is a society full of highly insecure and depressed people. In addition, the food situation in America is atrocious – all unhealthy and bad foods are promoted and cheap while good healthy foods are expensive…it’s all upside down, and it is NOT like this in other countries; the food industry and medical complex WANT people to be fat, unhealthy, and unhappy because that means more money for them.

    Highly insecure and depressed people often get fat because it offers them a false sense of security.

    Blame the collapsing society which is full of insecurity and depression for the fatness, not the person.

    LikeLike


  32. on February 18, 2009 at 1:02 pm Hit the Gym

    “But in my heart and my head, I’d neutralized her as a sexual being.”

    She neutralized herself…

    LikeLike


  33. on February 18, 2009 at 1:03 pm A Beta Hippy

    Blame collapsing society?

    Gimme a fuckin break, take some responsibility…it’s always somebody else’s fault???

    LikeLike


  34. on February 18, 2009 at 1:03 pm JerrDogg

    I too was also embarassed to be seen with my fat frigid wife. The company x-mas party was a time when I just wish that I could have not shown up. I always wondered if my colleagues thought that I was some sort of BBW fetish freak, a loser who can only harpoon, or if I forgot to check her mother’s heft before presenting her with the ring.

    What would amaze me is how many of her co-workers still wanted to have affairs with her despite her fatness. I forget how hot she used to be – and I think that’s why she still gets some attention despite her heft – you can sort of see the hot girl still poking through. In someways it is good that she got fat because if she was just frigid I’d resent her a lot more.

    I think a good analogy would be what if the man was an anorexic with a BMI of 18 and decided that since he’s okay with that, that his wife with a BMI of 30 shouldn’t eat more than 1000 calories until she has the same BMI of 18 and will actually be _forced_ to do so. Society doesn’t accept this, but society will accept a wife refusing to have sex on a schedule that satisfies her.

    What would the world think if you banned and stigmatized food magazines? Or called the “Food Network” channel “food porn”? After all, only a filthy glutton would watch this stuff! And it’s not like the glutton couldn’t find other outlets for her filthy food urges – she could always “simulate” eating food and drink by eating bars of soap and drinking water during alone time with herself in the shower – ewww. Surely this “food porn” just gives her a dirty gluttonous mind and the capitalistic media images of food promotion (“FOOD $ELLS”) raises the standards for eating at home to unrealistic levels. After all eating urges (beyond basic survival) are only about hedonistic physical pleasure right? What if you go out somewhere and catch her eyes looking at some delicious food – is she not satisfied with the old soggy freezer-burned brocolli that she sometimes can get at home (but only after kissing ass for hours)? And what’s with this “fetish” for garnish and spices – what kind of deviant slob would want that? If I don’t like pepper it can’t be used by her either.

    After years of this forced deprivation – we catch her, either sneaking food at some other families home or even worse by _paying_ for it at some fast food joint where she could bring home diseases like Salmonella or E Coli 0157! Now it is time to financially penalize her with the full power of the state to bear. Wages garnished, children and assets stolen away due to the stigma of her wanton gluttony. Couldn’t she just control herself – wasn’t the floppy carrots enough and bars of soap in the shower enough for her? Why would she do this to her family and sin against Yaeweh? She just seemed so quiet at the counseling sessions about why she just seemed to stare off into space at home all the time and would occasionally blurt out that I should be checked for some sort of thyroid problem because I have an 18 BMI – BUT there’s nothing WRONG with ME – it’s HER problem. I might get in the mood to eat more once a month or so if she would just spend more time relieving my stress and making it all about ME and not the FOOD but she just doesn’t understand that I’m just to tired to have an appetite.

    What will our scarred children become now they saw the pictures of cakes in the Family Circle magazine tucked under the mattress. Thank god the judge saw that as evidence of an unfit parent. All women are surely the _TRUE_ pigs!

    LikeLike


  35. on February 18, 2009 at 1:12 pm Anon

    —-Highly insecure and depressed people often get fat because it offers them a false sense of security.

    Blame the collapsing society which is full of insecurity and depression for the fatness, not the person—-

    WTF? How can being a fat slob offer you anything, no matter how fleeting or unreal? And the blaming collapsing society shit is just that, shit. There is just all this insecurity and depression floating around like people walk into I guess… Society makes you order fries with that shake? Society makes you buy Twinkies instead of brown rice? Society stopped you from going to the gym? Fucking please. People are responsible for their own actions, nobody is holding a gun to anyone’e head and making them buy junk.
    PS plenty of healthy food can be had cheap, real cheap. In fact it is cheaper to eat healthy than eat bad. It requires basically no effort either to find it(hint, it is in places called “supermarkets”) and (gasp!) cooking. I guess that is beyond some people Just stay the fuck out of places like Whole Foods where celery is $6 a pound.

    LikeLike


  36. on February 18, 2009 at 1:18 pm lf

    another silly hack article of the same low calibre and motivation:

    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/29239960/?GT1=43001

    LikeLike


  37. on February 18, 2009 at 1:19 pm Dudley Dawson

    Well played, Roissy. Well played, indeed!

    LikeLike


  38. on February 18, 2009 at 1:21 pm aliasclio

    Fair enough, Roissy, and very well done. But do you realise that in writing this parody you’ve actually justified the Marie Claire woman’s article? Because of course, although your piece is a parody, it isn’t a satire. If you had a wife, heaven help us, and she gained weight that way, I feel sure that you really would leave her for another woman without any serious qualms of conscience. At least so most of your other writing implies. Which in turn surely implies that a wife who leaves her husband for becoming a beta, like the woman in the article, is entirely justified in doing so. If that’s the case, Roissy readers, why did that article make so many of you so angry?

    Clio

    LikeLike


  39. on February 18, 2009 at 1:24 pm JerrDogg

    > In fact it is cheaper to eat healthy
    >than eat bad.

    Not sure about that. Fruits and veggies are kind of pricey compared to processed food.

    I think what makes us fat is the combination of (i) vestigial survival impulses and (ii) the food environment of cheap yummy hi-calorie food that makes people fat. Some poeple’s impulses are too strong to be overcome with their feeble willpower.

    I have a vestigial survival impulse to boink hot women and that has finally overcome my feeble willpower. This is what causes my current Bill Clinton-style manwhoring.

    LikeLike


  40. on February 18, 2009 at 1:25 pm podunk

    I guess that is beyond some people Just stay the fuck out of places like Whole Foods where celery is $6 a pound.

    I agree with the general sentiment of your post, but had to mention that price-per-pound of produce is not the only relevant metric. I don’t have a Whole Foods near where I live, but I imagine it to be a place where one can get organically grown produce. With that caveat, I find it to be far more flavorful than what one can obtain at the average supermarket, the nutritional value of which has also been trending downward. So while I abhor blaming society as much as you do, I also think that there are real problems that can only be fixed by voting (with your consumer dollars) for the $6/lb celery, as it were.

    LikeLike


  41. on February 18, 2009 at 1:25 pm GJ

    I hope you actually sent this in for publication, and I hope one of those rags actually publishes it unwittingly.

    LikeLike


  42. on February 18, 2009 at 1:25 pm kdg

    It took me almost half the post to realize it was a satire

    LikeLike


  43. on February 18, 2009 at 1:27 pm The G Manifesto

    Excellent “Response Track”.

    On a side note:

    America is in for a Drug Explosion.

    Its going to be serious.

    You heard it here first.

    – MPM

    LikeLiked by 1 person


  44. on February 18, 2009 at 1:29 pm The G Manifesto

    “What would amaze me is how many of her co-workers still wanted to have affairs with her despite her fatness.”

    Its because office workers are Chimps.

    They have no Game.

    – MPM

    LikeLike


  45. on February 18, 2009 at 1:29 pm curious

    Purple Saguaro is the best new commmenter of 09

    LikeLike


  46. on February 18, 2009 at 1:39 pm de Tocqueville

    Clio,

    I think a wife who leaves her husband for being/becoming beta IS justified in doing so. The Marie Claire article itself doesn’t make me angry.

    What may be annoying is if women sympathize with the Marie Claire author about losing attraction for a beta husband but then have no sympathy for men who lose attraction for wives who let themselves go.

    LikeLike


  47. on February 18, 2009 at 1:40 pm Expat

    Its because office workers are Chimps.

    They have no Game.

    To be a male office worker is to have been beaten down by life.

    LikeLike


  48. on February 18, 2009 at 1:41 pm RW

    Nice parody but the ring of truth. One would imagine that Magdalena represents a foreign born woman who views her responsibility to take care of herself.

    In the US, women can’t get beyond the entitlement mentality. After marriage, oral sex (for the man) ends, and then often enough all sex.

    But the woman still expects to be treated as a woman in a relationship with special gifts on holidays, bdays, etc.

    And she also expects to get whatever else she wants because, well because she wants it.

    Foreign born or first generation women are the best bet. The parody is closer to the truth than most would like to admit.

    And sadly, it reflects an American woman problem.

    LikeLike


  49. on February 18, 2009 at 1:45 pm Anon@yahoo.com

    “Not sure about that. Fruits and veggies are kind of pricey compared to processed food.”

    Buy a big sack of rice. Buy on sale. Buy in bulk. Clip coupons. Go to Costco. Start a garden. It is cheaper…Of course if you are lazy or on food stamps, then why bother? It does require some minimal effort instead of just grabbing the first thing in front of your face.

    ” I agree with the general sentiment of your post, but had to mention that price-per-pound of produce is not the only relevant metric.”

    You’re really splitting hairs. My point is that Whole Foods is outrageous. Try a farmers market or even the local supermarket. Yes, they have organic foods, even in places like NJ. Cheaper than Whole Foods too. I won’t give Whole Foods a cent. They are liberal commie multi-culti symps.

    LikeLike


  50. on February 18, 2009 at 1:46 pm de Tocqueville

    Also, I think Roissy indeed agrees with the Marie Claire article because the raison d’etre of his blog is to point out that women hate betas, which the article does.

    Now, only if women themselves would realize that they hate betas.

    LikeLike


  51. on February 18, 2009 at 1:48 pm Rock Hound

    On a side note:

    America is in for a Drug Explosion.

    Its going to be serious

    Can you give us a little more on this? “Drug Explosion” in what way? More crackheads, tweakers and junkie scarecrows? Crime? Nothing that I haven’t seen before. If it is like another crack epidemic, fine by me. Reduce the surplus population…

    LikeLike


  52. on February 18, 2009 at 1:51 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    How is the US in for a drug explosion? The only thing America seems to know how to do with drugs is make them illegal. I need a permission slip to buy friggin Robitussin at the supermarket.

    LikeLike


  53. on February 18, 2009 at 1:53 pm Expat

    What will our scarred children become now they saw the pictures of cakes in the Family Circle magazine tucked under the mattress.

    That’s a fun analogy, but it’s also telling of being under the sway of women’s concensual power of gossip. Women gossip in order to have control over men, firstly, and control over sluts (competing women) secondly. Their whole focus on shoes and status is entirely about social manipulation. Manipulation over other women, and over what gossip is important.

    That you care what is said about porn, means you care about womens gossip.

    Grow a set.

    It’s irrelevant.

    LikeLike


  54. on February 18, 2009 at 1:56 pm Anonymous

    I have this…friend. She doesn’t feel hungry very often, maybe only twice a day, and she eats until she’s full, and then stops. She is dating this guy who insists that because he likes to eat a lot, easily 3 or 4 times a day, with snacks in between, that she eat with him too. She’s forced to eat until she feels queasy, in an effort to please him, though she doesn’t feel hungry at all. Whenever she mentions that she doesn’t feel hungry, he pouts, or threatens to leave her, and eat with another girlfriend who is also hungry.

    The thing is, this guy knew my friend didn’t have much of an appetite from the beginning of the relationship. She was always a delicate eater. He often would do things to work up her appetite, but they are way past that stage now. He skips right over the working up an appetite phase, and always wants to go straight for the big meal part. He used to casually date women who were big eaters like him, but he considers them gluttons, and he instead went for someone who barely eats like my friend, though apparently a lot of his personal happiness depends on someone being a big eater like himself.

    At this point, my friend is so turned off by his pestering and whining about eating with her, that she cringes every time the subject of a meal is brought up, and avoids eating with him whenever possible. Which is a shame, because even though she wasn’t a big eater, she still enjoyed a fine meal. what sort of advice should I give my friend?

    LikeLike


  55. on February 18, 2009 at 1:57 pm kdg

    “…the increasingly concave couch…”

    Nice

    LikeLike


  56. on February 18, 2009 at 1:58 pm Kthulah

    I agree with Darran. Purple Saguaro should have his own blog.

    LikeLike


  57. on February 18, 2009 at 2:03 pm Rock Hound

    “what sort of advice should I give my friend?”

    Is this a serious question?

    LikeLike


  58. on February 18, 2009 at 2:05 pm Sparks123

    Mark sounds a whiny loser, I don’t blame the writer in the least for leaving him, just like I wouldn’t blame Roissy’s fictional man for leaving his wife.

    The one problem with your piece of satire, Roissy is this: “So nobody was more surprised than I was when I went ahead and fell for another funny, bright, kind woman like Marie.”

    It doesn’t work because your character’s preconceived idea of the ideal woman doesn’t contradict the woman he ends up falling for. Brayfield’s preconceived idea of the ideal man very much contradicts the man she falls for after leaving Mark.

    Your character would have have no reason why he wouldn’t fall for a “funny, bright, kind woman” because those qualities had nothing to do with why he left his wife. Brayfield ends up with another beta, but one who “knows what he wants.” The equivalent in your story would be if the guy ends up with a fat girl, but one with self-confidence, but of course Roissy, that would mean saying being fat is OK, which you could never do.

    LikeLiked by 1 person


  59. on February 18, 2009 at 2:06 pm The G Manifesto

    “Can you give us a little more on this? “Drug Explosion” in what way? ”

    With Down Economies come higher drug usage and selling.

    I have “felt” it on the street that more people are into selling and using.

    Smuggling “corridors” are seeing increased traffic.

    All we need is a new “Extacsy” and its all over.

    – MPM

    LikeLike


  60. on February 18, 2009 at 2:06 pm howdy

    “If Women Do Have Lower Libidos, It Would Make Sense” – http://www.alternet.org/sex/127385/if_women_do_have_lower_libidos%2C_it_would_make_sense/

    LikeLike


  61. on February 18, 2009 at 2:07 pm OML

    The friend should walk out with her dignity intact, because that situation is not going to improve with age.

    LikeLike


  62. on February 18, 2009 at 2:07 pm The G Manifesto

    “The only thing America seems to know how to do with drugs is make them illegal.”

    True.

    And the only way for California out of this mess is to legalize weed.

    Or open up CA to prostitution, gambling and laxing drinking laws.

    – MPM

    LikeLike


  63. on February 18, 2009 at 2:10 pm Rock Hound

    “Can you give us a little more on this? “Drug Explosion” in what way? ”

    With Down Economies come higher drug usage and selling.

    I have “felt” it on the street that more people are into selling and using.

    Smuggling “corridors” are seeing increased traffic.

    All we need is a new “Extacsy” and its all over.

    – MPM

    Sorry, I’m still not seeing this drug explosion. And a “new Extacsy” doesn’t worry me all that much. I’m figuring on more crime, but not necessarily more drugs.

    LikeLike


  64. on February 18, 2009 at 2:10 pm gig

    apparently, the price of cocaine dropped 50% in 10 years in the UK and now a line of coke costs less than a pint of beer. The G cited the very article in his blog.

    What they don’t say is if the supply has increased or if it much cheaper to send coke to the UK now or if it a demand problem. If people are demanding less cocaine, than the fall in prices signals not a drug explosion, but an implosion. I suspect this second effect is correct

    LikeLike


  65. on February 18, 2009 at 2:11 pm Expat

    what sort of advice should I give my friend?

    Find a man with a similar sex drive. It’s hugely important.

    LikeLike


  66. on February 18, 2009 at 2:14 pm JerrDogg

    >what sort of advice should I give my friend?
    If she’s hot send her to me. I need to add to my notch count.

    LikeLike


  67. on February 18, 2009 at 2:19 pm Seeking Alpha

    gig – Data on drug consumption rates is probably available. I would suspect it isn’t a fall-off in demand since reduced profits would likely promote consolidation and reduced supply.

    LikeLike


  68. on February 18, 2009 at 2:24 pm Expat

    Deflation.

    LikeLike


  69. on February 18, 2009 at 2:27 pm Suburban Sweetheart

    The best part of this blog is the commenters who eat it all up, write it all down, nod their heads & say enthusiastically, “Me too, man. ME TOO!”

    You’re a dick, Roissy, but you’re brilliant. Are you ever embarrassed by the caliber of your commenters?

    LikeLike


  70. on February 18, 2009 at 2:27 pm jonathanjones02

    roissy has said that physical attraction is a necessary but not sufficient condition to get and keep a man. And although I don’t consider myself a hedonist, he’s right on target with that point….

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  71. on February 18, 2009 at 2:27 pm howdy

    So many Americans are fat because they work a bunch of sedentary jobs and eat too much – if you work an office job you don’t need to eat more than about 2,000 calories a day unless you also vigorously work out. Smaller people need even fewer calories than that if they don’t exercise.

    They sit on their asses all day burning very, very few calories yet they still stuff their face like they were a bunch of hardworking ditch-diggers or fieldhands.

    LikeLike


  72. on February 18, 2009 at 2:31 pm Darren

    Brilliant, brilliant, rewriting of the Marie Claire piece!

    LikeLike


  73. on February 18, 2009 at 2:33 pm Expat

    And although I don’t consider myself a hedonist,

    Why on earth don’t you consider yourself a hedonist? Even morality and the social good is hedonistic. It’s as pithy as statement about the meaning of life as you can find. Did you find better?

    LikeLike


  74. on February 18, 2009 at 2:34 pm Pupu

    Here is a conundrum:

    – Like rich men who tend to attract gold diggers, skinny gals tend to attract men who fancy the model/ballerina types.

    – Unlike wealth that tends to generate more wealth with time, weight tends to follow the second law of thermodynamics — always going up from the model-ly/ballerina-ly point one starts from.

    So generally speaking, skinny gals worry more about their weight than chubbier ones. In a modern society, no woman, honest to herself, can be *perfectly happy* with her weight for 30 days in a row.

    LikeLike


  75. on February 18, 2009 at 2:38 pm Firepower

    fuck that turd.

    If he had to wait for validation from his boss to determine his wife was a piggy – the author had shit for brains during his married years.

    Reading MM, then using it to justify a new piece of slimmer ass is not justification for divorce.

    Even more so when a child is involved.

    You wanna fuck hot ass? Don’t get married. And ever have a child.

    LikeLike


  76. on February 18, 2009 at 2:40 pm The same

    “The best part of this blog is the commenters who eat it all up, write it all down, nod their heads & say enthusiastically, “Me too, man. ME TOO!”

    You’re a dick, Roissy, but you’re brilliant. Are you ever embarrassed by the caliber of your commenters”

    And you’re different?

    LikeLike


  77. on February 18, 2009 at 2:44 pm Rafal Smigrodzki

    I hate WF too. They stopped offering plastic bags, to “save the planet”, or some bullshit like that. Now all you can get is these crappy paper bags. Of course, this is sanctimonious arrogant ignorance – plastic bags are actually better for the environment because they cost less resources to make, and much more importantly, they are more convenient. Unfortunately they do not give the WF patrons the smug feeling of moral superiority over the unwashed Kroger-frequenting masses. Well, screw WF.

    LikeLike


  78. on February 18, 2009 at 2:45 pm JerrDogg

    Firepower,

    Men should have their cake and eat it too. Marry the perfect mom. If she lets herself go – turn into Bill Clinton. Did it hurt Chelsea?

    LikeLike


  79. on February 18, 2009 at 2:47 pm The G Manifesto

    “Sorry, I’m still not seeing this drug explosion.”

    Step out of your house and go to a bar at night.

    Huge increase in cocaine usage.

    “supply has increased”

    Exactly. And Smuggling corridors are seeing more activity.

    Supply can always outstrip demand in the drug world.

    That is why you see falling prices in the UK even though demand is up.

    Cheaper prices are going to start to layer in more demand as well.

    – MPM

    LikeLike


  80. on February 18, 2009 at 2:50 pm The G Manifesto

    “Data on drug consumption rates is probably available.”

    I am sure they are.

    Statistics are always sketchy with this stuff.

    I am going on what I am seeing, hearing, knowing and feeling.

    I can say I do have my finger on the pulse of this stuff, so to speak.

    Think of how fucked up you can get on drugs for the $600 you would have spent on bottle service?

    – MPM

    LikeLike


  81. on February 18, 2009 at 2:51 pm kh

    that was an absolute riot – nice work

    LikeLike


  82. on February 18, 2009 at 2:58 pm Rock Hound

    Step out of your house and go to a bar at night.

    Huge increase in cocaine usage.

    Maybe. I’m not checking stalls I the shitter to see if anyone is doing coke. I’ve seen some drug stuff in bars over the years, but I can’t say I’ve seen an increase. I’m usually focusing on drinking anyway. Truth be told, I just may not be all that observant, I’ll look closer this weekend just out of pure curiosity…

    LikeLike


  83. on February 18, 2009 at 3:00 pm Chuck

    Good parody.

    Too bad we can’t come to a point where it’s socially acceptable to point out that women aren’t turned on by beta husbands and men aren’t turned on by fat wives.

    LikeLike


  84. on February 18, 2009 at 3:02 pm crack

    so, G, does falling cocaine prices mean that a salary of 250,000 is better than just barely scraping by now? lol

    LikeLike


  85. on February 18, 2009 at 3:09 pm podunk

    You’re really splitting hairs. My point is that Whole Foods is outrageous.

    I’ll have to take your word for it, not having been near one. Sounds like I hit an ideological nerve when I was just aiming for dispassionate discussion, not combat.

    That’s cool, though. I’ve got my own list of corporations I won’t abide.

    LikeLike


  86. on February 18, 2009 at 3:13 pm Random

    Yes, thank you, love this. I say unabashedly that I would divorce any woman I marry if she gained 50 pounds, and I don’t apologize for that. It’s not difficult to stay in shape, at all, although most Americans do not recognize this. Getting fat is a sign you’ve completely given up trying to be attractive to the other person but our pussified american culture still thinks you should love your wife regardless. Of course the other side is a complete double standard – if a guy loses confidence or can’t find a job, no one ever blames a woman for divorcing him, because her reasons aren’t “shallow” by society’s standards.

    I don’t fault women for choosing alpha men because I don’t fault myself for choosing attractive, in shape women. Human nature is what it is – you can be a bitch and whine about reality and how unfairly fat women or beta men are treated, but it’s not going to change the dynamics of attraction and human nature.

    Yes there are vast societal changes that need to be put in place to combat the obesity epidemic, however, nothing will cause a person to STAY in shape CONSISTENTLY other than them embracing it as a personal responsibility.

    A previous poster said that there are two types of people – those who can take care of themselves and those that can’t, and I agree that the former group are the only ones worth marrying. I think that it’s the same for men and women – men must maintain a certain confident status and women must maintain a certain level of attractiveness.

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  87. on February 18, 2009 at 3:13 pm mandy

    “Not sure about that. Fruits and veggies are kind of pricey compared to processed food.”

    So, anyone can grow a garden at home. You may not make enough to live on but you would be able to get fresh fruits or veggies.

    Even eating a crappy diet, some people do manage a reasonable weight by exercising to make up for it. Also, fasting once a month could help. Look there is a simple recipe, if calories in – calories out >0, you will gain weight. If someone is overweight, they need to tweak this formula to lose weight.

    There are a million reasons once can come up with to support “its not my fault – waaaaa!” But it is the individual’s fault – ALWAYS!

    Welcome to the perpetual victim hood of modern humanity.

    LikeLike


  88. on February 18, 2009 at 3:28 pm Obsidian

    Elsewhere in the forum, Chic Noir gave me props for making some comments that, to her, made me sound like a “cool dad” talking to his daughter about the realities of Men.

    I don’t have daughters, but if I did, that would make me proud, and reading R’s satirical piece brought her thoughts back to mind.

    If I did have a *White* daughter, this is what I would tell her, among other things, as she prepares to step out into the world on her own:

    That she must understand, and accept, that if she intends to date, bed and ultimately marry a *certain type* of White Male-college educated, white collar, socially sensitive, etc-that she will have to be, and maintain being, *thin*.

    Period.

    I would tell her that I have learned of this as the result of hundreds of hours of reading internet blogs and the like, and, perhaps more importantly, actually taking time to discuss these matters w/White Men in question themselves. I would tell my White daughter that she could benefit from my extensive experience in these matters, so as to save herself the time and ultimately hurt feelings that is sure to come if she chooses not to heed my advice.

    I would then tell her the truth about White Women: that, on average, they age faster and at a harsher rate than do Women of other racil groups, and because of this, she will need to be very careful about her appearance and most of all, her weight. I would tell her that all Men are intensely visually stimulated, but that they all don’t share the same aesthetics in this regard. If she intends to get a certain type of White Man, she will need to look a certain type of way and to maintain it for as long as she can.

    Period.

    Switching over to Marriage, I would tell my daughter that it is not for the immature, the selfish or the childish. That Love, however that is defined, is in truth not “unconditional”; that there are preconditions that must be met and duties to be carried out, that come before whether one “feels like it or not”. This applies to both groom and bride, but as I’m focusing on her side of the fence, I would tell her that she has a solemn duty to remain sexually appealing to her husband for as long as she can, at least the balance of her childbearing years. Among other things, that means, staying thin. Period.

    It makes no good sense at all to attempt to wage a woefully misguided moral crusade against what Men, in this case, a certain type of White Male, finds sexually attractive. Simply put, there’s nothing you can do about it, and trust me when I tell you, many have tried. Moreover, only children fail to understand that all things worth having come at a price. If you want such a Man, he will come at a price. I’m merely laying out, in detail, what that cost is.

    I would tell my White daughter not to be fooled by the ideas of the day, that what I am telling her is as old as time itself, at least insofar as human beings are concerned. The bottomline is that sex is extremely important to Men, and she can be certain as the Sun rises in the East and sets in the West that if she fails in the things I am talking to her about someone will be taking her place. Whether or not that happens, depends in large part, on her.

    Then, after giving her a strong fatherly hug of support, stand back, open the door to the family home, and say:

    Good luck; and all my hopes.

    The Obsidian

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  89. on February 18, 2009 at 3:37 pm Expat

    So, anyone can grow a garden at home.

    Apartment. Condo. Hotel room. Travelling lifestyle. Time constraints.

    But if you can, gardens are like kids. Kids you can eat.

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  90. on February 18, 2009 at 3:40 pm Usually Lurking

    Fair enough, Roissy, and very well done. But do you realise that in writing this parody you’ve actually justified the Marie Claire woman’s article?

    No. He knows that, even though his version was written from the POV of a Beta, it still will not be published. While her silly clap trap was.

    LikeLike


  91. on February 18, 2009 at 3:42 pm mandy

    Prohibition is a failure so increased drug abuse and violence of drug gangs is inevitable.

    Expat
    You can make a little indoor greenhouse if you have a window or get a good lamp. People do it with pot all the time. If you travel a lot, surely buying “pricey” produce is not a problem.

    LikeLike


  92. on February 18, 2009 at 3:43 pm as

    This is what Amy Brayfield, author of “Why I Left My Beta Husband” looks like.

    http://www.education.com/magazine/column/The_Stingy_Mommy/

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  93. on February 18, 2009 at 3:54 pm Expat

    A little indoor greenhouse is fine for herbs. Not for produce.

    I laud gardening, but it isn’t everyone’s solution.

    LikeLike


  94. on February 18, 2009 at 4:05 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    There is a more realistic picture of Brayfield at the below link. The pic someone else posted is a staged columnist shot. See below for the untouched deal:

    http://www.mediabistro.com/content/archives/04/06/14atlanta

    LikeLike


  95. on February 18, 2009 at 4:10 pm mandy

    true Expat, not for everyone. But surely people can do something.

    I just don’t think obese people are powerless to overcome the culture of cheap, high fat foods.

    LikeLike


  96. on February 18, 2009 at 4:14 pm Obsidian

    UL,
    Why does *anyone* expect R’s piece to actually be published in one of the Seven Sisters? Isn’t that the height of counterintuitive?

    Given what we know about Women, does that make sense to even raise such a question?

    Comments?

    O

    LikeLike


  97. on February 18, 2009 at 4:16 pm Tood

    Is this a true story? I didn’t know Roissy had a daughter.

    It is sad but true, that once a woman has a kid, she will probably become fat. Perhaps not obese, but still fat enough to kill off sexual desire in her husband.

    This is why marriage is very hard in this day and age of Internet porn. Even if you like every other aspect about your wife, if you don’t want to have sex with her, she WILL leave you, and take all your money. So your only choices are to either have sex with a fat wife, or be financially ruined. Not very good choices, particularly for a man who earlier had a an attractive wife and money.

    LikeLike


  98. on February 18, 2009 at 4:18 pm Tood

    OK, I get it. It is satire on the Marie Claire piece, and not really about Roissy’s life.

    LikeLike


  99. on February 18, 2009 at 4:22 pm purplesaguaro

    Tood,

    It’s good to see that you figured that out. I’m an inanimate object powered by D-batteries and I noticed the similarities immediately.

    LikeLike


  100. on February 18, 2009 at 4:22 pm howdy

    Obsidian: “I would then tell her the truth about White Women: that, on average, they age faster and at a harsher rate than do Women of other racial groups,”

    You make a lot of very good points in that post.

    White women age faster than other men mostly because of too much sun exposure, among other factors – White skin is meant for the cloudy, cool, and non-sunny climates of Northern Europe because it evolved there – and when a White person (woman or man) is raised in a very sunny non-Northern European like environment (like the American South, the desert Southwest, or Southern California) they do indeed age quite fast because the harsh Sun does quite a number on their White skin which is evolutionarily unused to such solar intensity. In the Pacific Northwest, the Upper Midwest, and parts of New England where the climate and intensity of the Sun is closer to what you’ll find in Northern Europe, you will find that the White women there age MUCH more gracefully than the women in the American South, the desert Southwest, or Southern Cali.

    Also, being too (unnaturally) thin seems to make people (especially women) age very quickly too – people who are too thin have faces and bodies that are in some ways ‘hollowed out,’ and they often look rough and hard and scraggly with sunken features – women who are too thin often look rather manly in some ways with their jutting bones and hard jawlines; conversely, women with a healthy (but not overly excessive) amount of fat on them seem to age better than women who are too thin. Extreme thinness only looks good on women who were born that way and thus are genetically predisposed to such extreme thinness – women who starve or exercise themselves in to extreme thinness often look rather terrible as a result because their bodies are not meant to be that thin – and they often have many health problems as a result of such unnatural thinness, many of which are resolved when they put on a bit of weight and become closer to their natural (genetically predisposed) body type.

    LikeLike


  101. on February 18, 2009 at 4:25 pm Spode

    There is a more realistic picture of Brayfield at the below link. The pic someone else posted is a staged columnist shot. See below for the untouched deal:

    http://www.mediabistro.com/content/archives/04/06/14atlanta

    Not ugly.

    LikeLike


  102. on February 18, 2009 at 4:33 pm jackson

    Purple Saguaro,

    Stop it. You’re killing me.

    LikeLike


  103. on February 18, 2009 at 4:34 pm Jay Gatsby

    When you boil it down, there is simply no excuse to get fat regardless of your gender. People do not need to accept your fatness so you can feel better about yourself. They have every right to hate you for being fat as you claim to be fat.

    LikeLike


  104. on February 18, 2009 at 4:36 pm Expat

    true Expat, not for everyone. But surely people can do something.

    I just don’t think obese people are powerless to overcome the culture of cheap, high fat foods.

    Home grown beansprouts. Home rolled tortillas and home cooked beans. Bulk dry goods. Farmers markets for carrots and other juicable sources of vitamins. Yes, being healthy needn’t be expensive. It helps to have either free time or a partner time not devoted to a corporation.

    LikeLike


  105. on February 18, 2009 at 4:39 pm jaakkeli

    howdy’s right. White Americans age much faster than Europeans.

    Remember, southern America is on the same latitudes as Africa. For comparison, my latitude would put me in Greenland or Nunavut over there and on top of that it’s pretty wet (ie cloudy). Even the northern parts of non-Alaskan US would put it on Northern African / Mediterranean latitudes and the sun there is too much for pale people.

    When you live in these parts, you can also easily observe the difference between women who do solarium, trips to the south andor lots of sunbathing during summer and those who don’t. Those who do age notably faster.

    LikeLike


  106. on February 18, 2009 at 4:41 pm mnl

    >This is what Amy Brayfield, author of “Why I Left My Beta >Husband” looks like.

    Wow! Unfortunately, it’s just a head shot and we can’t see all of her. But from what i do see, I’m wondering why she was so picky. I mean, she’s okay. But for me, I say “meh!”

    I prefer to think her beta husband finally got his game on and is now happily ensconced in the labial folds of a new, better-looking and more fulfilling relationship.

    Indeed, some think game is only for the single or is something you retire once you get married. It’s not. While promiscuity should indeed drop in a committed marriage relationship, promiscuity ≠ game. Assuming her Marie Claire story accurately represented both sides (which is likely a stretch), Amy Brayfield’s husband forgot to maintain (or never ever really had) the alpha script.

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  107. on February 18, 2009 at 4:42 pm Purple Saguaro

    Jackson,

    I’m incapable of recognizing sarcasm, so I have to presume that you are mocking me. This leaves me no choice but to sodomize you until you scream my name and beg forgiveness for mocking me.

    /turns self on and begins approaching Jackson from behind
    /vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    LikeLike


  108. on February 18, 2009 at 4:46 pm Isaac

    Excellent. The difference between this and the msn article is that men are actively beta-ized by the various institutions of American society. Hell, the government actively undermines the role of fathers in the socialization of children and alpha tendencies are scolded in young boys and praised in young women. Then shit like this happens and it’s somehow men’s fault? Nobody is actively encouraging women to be fat(in the same sense that men are constantly beta-ized), yet they still develop obesity far more than men and would be appalled if they discover the obvious; that (most) men aren’t attracted to women in poor physical shape.

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  109. on February 18, 2009 at 4:46 pm The G Manifesto

    crack

    “so, G, does falling cocaine prices mean that a salary of 250,000 is better than just barely scraping by now? lol”

    Ha.

    You must be referencing a comment I made previously.

    No, 250k a year is still barely scraping by.

    Although with the down economy and travel deals (Las Vegas offering more in credits than a room costs…) you are in better shape.

    And if you are a 250k coke head, you should have some extra twenties to rub together.

    – MPM

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  110. on February 18, 2009 at 4:49 pm The G Manifesto

    Expat,

    “Home grown beansprouts. Home rolled tortillas and home cooked beans. Bulk dry goods. Farmers markets for carrots and other juicable sources of vitamins. Yes, being healthy needn’t be expensive. It helps to have either free time or a partner time not devoted to a corporation.”

    Expat is one of the smartest guys on here.

    – MPM

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  111. on February 18, 2009 at 4:55 pm Anonymous

    Most people get fat as they get older. If you’re with a woman for long enough, she will get fat, most likely. As will you. Just a by-product of human metabolism.

    LikeLike


  112. on February 18, 2009 at 4:55 pm jkc

    i was out at Kitchen last weekend and i saw a few people hittin’ the slopes in the bathroom.

    then i was out at Wonderland the other night and i saw the same thing.

    maybe people are just a little less discreet than usual…

    LikeLike


  113. on February 18, 2009 at 4:59 pm Tood

    Anyone who thinks fruits and veggies are expensive, particularly compared to processed food, is an idiot.

    Go to any no-frills (usually ethnic) grocery store. Fruits and vegetables are so cheap that you will hard pressed to eat more than $4/person/day worth.

    Anyone who thinks healthy foods are expensive has never actually bought fruits and vegetables.

    America is to dietary health what North Korea and Zimbabwe are to economics.

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  114. on February 18, 2009 at 5:04 pm Tood

    It still baffles me that women will allow themselves to get fat.

    90-95% of a woman’s social status is her looks. A fat woman married to a rich man still does not have very high social status.

    Since status is the predominant factor in how people treat you, a woman’s looks is critically important to how she will be treated by all other people.

    So to allow herself to become fat is irresponsible in the extreme, and a disservice both to herself and to others.

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  115. on February 18, 2009 at 5:05 pm The G Manifesto

    Tood,

    “Anyone who thinks healthy foods are expensive has never actually bought fruits and vegetables.

    America is to dietary health what North Korea and Zimbabwe are to economics.”

    Tood kicking knowledge.

    Farmers markets and ethnic groceries are the only way to go.

    America is to dietary health what a Homeless person is to real estate Casino development.

    – MPM

    LikeLike


  116. on February 18, 2009 at 5:05 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Great satire, no way in hell does any woman’s magazine publish it.

    The cultural norm – which is in part upheld and reinforced by the feminists and homosexuals that write, edit and publish the bilge known as “women’s magazines” is heavily invested in continuing the current mindset of female entitlement and non-responsibility. It is always the man’s fault when a relationship breaks down.

    If a husband is upset with his wife getting fat, it’s his fault for not being understanding, supportive and for being incredibly selfish.

    That being said, I feel the need to point out the following –

    mandy wrote:

    Look there is a simple recipe, if calories in – calories out >0, you will gain weight. If someone is overweight, they need to tweak this formula to lose weight.

    This is a LIE promulgated and proliferated to the same extent (perhaps even worse) than the lies of feminism have that have corrupted society.

    Not all calories are the same. A high calorie diet consisting of high quality fats and proteins will result in an overweight person losing weight and easily maintaining it, while a low calorie, low fat – carbohydrate based diet will result in the all too common ‘yo-yo’ dieting effect or even more weight gain. And this state of affairs comes directly from this mistaken notion that Mandy repeated here.

    Not trying to focus on you Mandy, only that when I tell people what i just wrote, I constantly get some variation of what you wrote repeated to me.

    It is WRONG. It is a lie based on Big Agricultural Corporations with a vested interest in keeping the Sheeple consuming their manufactured, grain-based food products. Also, a vested interest by big pharmaceutical companies that tell people to avoid saturated fats and watch their cholesterol numbers so that they can get as many people as possible to take their number one prescribed drug with the highest profit margins…statins.

    Here’s a a lecture at Cal Berkley that Dusk In Autumn blogger linked to given by Gary Taubes, author a couple of columns and a book that cover all of the crazy sounding stuff I just wrote.

    Also, Taubes wrote an excellent article on this topic What If it’s All Been a Big Fat Lie?

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  117. on February 18, 2009 at 5:08 pm Jay Gatsby

    Anonymous – you’re way off base. True, your metabolism slows down as you age, but that only means you don’t need as many calories. My grandfather, who is 98 years old and still physically fit (he’s the same waist size he was decades ago), eats half what might be considered normal. Probably somewhere around 1200-1500 calories a day, if that. You’d think he be losing weight like crazy, but he doesn’t. Why? Because he doesn’t have all of the physical activity that a working person does, or even a recently retired person might have (e.g., golf, tennis, fishing, etc….) It comes down to eating in only the calories you need, not the calories you want. Blaming your slowing metabolism for getting fat is simply an excuse.

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  118. on February 18, 2009 at 5:08 pm Usually Lurking

    Why does *anyone* expect R’s piece to actually be published in one of the Seven Sisters? Isn’t that the height of counterintuitive?

    Given what we know about Women, does that make sense to even raise such a question?

    Clio was trying to say that if Roissy can write a piece like the one above then that justifies the original Marie Clair. What I am saying is that Roissy’s version will never be published in Marie Claire, Cosmo, or GQ or Maxim.

    Maxim can have articles that tell women not to get fat (the equivalent, here, of the Mari Clair article telling men not to be beta), but none of them will ever be seen as heart-to-hearts.

    GQ could publish a piece like it, but it would need to be razor-sharp, or a comment about society, or some shit.

    The original was straight-up “DON’T BE BETA”.

    Their will be no equivalent saying, straight-up “DON’T GET FAT”.

    That is the difference.

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  119. on February 18, 2009 at 5:12 pm JerrDogg

    @Tood,

    “So your only choices are to either have sex with a fat wife, or be financially ruined. Not very good choices, particularly for a man who earlier had a an attractive wife and money.”

    She can only take half. Given your spending habits in marriage, you may actually net come out ahead. If you and your wife work things out like responsible parents should (i.e. don’t run off to bullshit divorce lawyers who will just rack up billable hours and come up with a tax-inefficient split), you won’t have much impact on the kids. I may be a philanderer, but by any measure, I’m a great father. I taught my kids how to read, potty trained them, work with their teachers. If I knock up any more I can do the same. When they are older, I can afford to pay much of their college bills even if I knock up more. I think the Mormons had it right, except I’m not sure about the seer stones or the funky underwear. The child support thing isn’t that unreasonable. In fact, I’m going to stay technically married (and even try to sleep in the same bed) as long as I can get away with it. My philandering while coming back to her is a way of forcing the open marriage issue if she ever finds out. Outside of sex, we’re the perfect couple.

    Bill Clinton is now guiding my moral compass. I still like the taboo against it since nobody should do what I do lightly; It took many years to get to where I am. I would prefer it not be this way. But if you have to and you are able, having chicks on the side is a blast.

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  120. on February 18, 2009 at 5:16 pm DestroyToCreate

    Off-Topic, but I think this needs to be commented upon:

    BetaBoyfriend

    This guy has not had sex with his girlfriend in years, ends up spending a night in jail, and is still financially supporting her?

    LikeLike


  121. on February 18, 2009 at 5:18 pm Tood

    A healhy diet is really very simple. In fact, many cultures do it day in and day out (Meditterrannean, Indian, Thai, some Mexican, etc.)

    1) Make sure 90% of what you eat is fruits and vegetables that are FRESH, NOT CANNED. Tomatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, zuchhini, carrots, lentils, beans, garlic, ginger, strawberries, blueberries, kiwis, plums, etc. must be eaten regularly, as all have anti-cancer properties.
    2) Learn how to cook so that you can actually eat these vegetables in some form other than a salad, so you don’t get bored. Knowing how to cook is an essential part of Game, BTW, as it is a great way to get a woman to your place to seduce her.
    3) Avoid all refined sugars (soft drinks, desserts) and all fried foods. For dessert, eat either fruit (kiwis, berries) or a piece of superdark chocolate.
    4) Keep red meat to a minimum (1-2 times a month).
    5) Alas, fish is healthy, but many types of fish have mercury in them. Avoid swordfish, tuna, tilefish.
    6) Eat whole wheat bread, pasta, etc. rather than white forms. This is important.
    7) Sprout beans and lentils regularly, and eat them for breakfast. The taste is an acquired one, but this is THE healthiest food habit you can keep.

    …and Voila, you will be thin, AND you will avoid cancer and heart disease, AND you will keep your youth for longer. Now, is that so hard?

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  122. on February 18, 2009 at 5:27 pm Kthulah

    Tood, I’d add to that: no fake foods.

    No corn oil, kanola oil, or any of those nasty fuel byproducts that are sold as food. If the fat comes from a plant, the only process it should take to extract it is cold pressing.

    No margarine especially. People eat tons of that stuff.

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  123. on February 18, 2009 at 5:29 pm dougjnn

    de Tocqueville–

    “Clio,

    I think a wife who leaves her husband for being/becoming beta IS justified in doing so. The Marie Claire article itself doesn’t make me angry.

    What may be annoying is if women sympathize with the Marie Claire author about losing attraction for a beta husband but then have no sympathy for men who lose attraction for wives who let themselves go.”

    Well said de Toc. That’s the exact point. And I guarantee you that society in general, and SWPL women in particular feel that wife was justified than the married man with a wife who got fat post marriage that Roissy pretended to be.

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  124. on February 18, 2009 at 5:30 pm The G Manifesto

    Tood,

    On a roll today.

    I agree completely.

    I would add: drinking Green Tea.

    Green tea keeps you looking young, gives you energy and negates any (if there really are any) effects of smoking cigarettes.

    Then:

    Beach jog, lift some weights, practice your Kung-Fu, Box, surf and swim.

    And of course, swoop mad amounts of fly girls.

    Do this and seriously, you get younger by the day.

    – MPM

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  125. on February 18, 2009 at 5:33 pm Comfort Foods

    on February 18, 2009 at 5:27 pm Kthulah
    Tood, I’d add to that: no fake foods.

    I remember your photo from a few weeks ago. You’re really giving advice about eating? Let me ask my dog and cat how to fix the car.

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  126. on February 18, 2009 at 5:33 pm Obsidian

    But Doug, isn’t a key idea of Evo Psych is that Men and Women have *competing* interests? And if that’s true, wouldn’t that be in evidence in the Marie Claire piece/issue? Of course its readers would side w/Amy what’s her name. And of course, they would feel some kind of way about R’s mock piece in response.

    If one accepts the core tenets of EP, it then raises the question of why such people would expect “fairness” from the other side. It certainly does, for me.

    Comments?

    The Obsidian

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  127. on February 18, 2009 at 5:34 pm Seeking Alpha

    Come on MPM… eat red meat 1 – 2 times a month. You can’t agree with that. That’s if you’re going for that vegan, hipster body style. If you want some muscle on your frame and you exercise enough to keep the calories off, red meat is great

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  128. on February 18, 2009 at 5:34 pm dougjnn

    ummm…. make that

    that society in general, and SWPL women in particular feel that that wife in Marie Claire was far more justified than the married man that Roissy pretended to be whose wife got fat post marriage.

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  129. on February 18, 2009 at 5:36 pm Tood

    Kthulah,

    Yes, I agree. But is corn oil really fake? I didn’t know that.

    Olive oil should be consumed prodigiously. It increases arterial elasticity.

    A tiny amount of real butter is still less harmful than a ton of margarine.

    I have to put a good word in for avocado and turmeric as well. Both have anti-cancer properties, and have been used by Mexican and Indian cuisines respectively for a long time. I make sure I eat both regularly.

    G Manifesto,

    Yes, green tea is good. But I read somewhere that it burns the inner lining of the urethra. I hope that is not true (I doubt it. Chinese people drink 5 cups a day for their lifetime). Pure black coffee has benefits too. The key is to cut all soft drinks to a minimum, and replace with green tea. The substitution of the negative is an even bigger factor than the addition of the positive itself.

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  130. on February 18, 2009 at 5:39 pm Tood

    “Come on MPM… eat red meat 1 – 2 times a month. You can’t agree with that. That’s if you’re going for that vegan, hipster body style. If you want some muscle on your frame and you exercise enough to keep the calories off, red meat is great”

    Dead wrong. If you want to get colon cancer and die in your 50s like Tony Snow or Joel Siegel, then eat a lot of red meat.

    Lentils have even more protein per 100 grams than red meat, plus they have fiber too.

    Red meat should be 1-2 times a month. That is NOT vegan (you apparently don’t know what a vegan is), that is just prudent health.

    Just because you are used to something doesn’t mean that it is good for you.

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  131. on February 18, 2009 at 5:41 pm Kthulah

    Comfort, that photo is from 2002. I was much, much fatter then.

    I’m not ashamed of it because I’m one of those rare people who actually did have medical reasons for it. I’d venture a good portion of that was from water retention, though it doesn’t matter to me so much now. I’m just happy to have survived.

    I’m sure you and some others may have a problem with the fact that I survived, but well…that’s your problem.

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  132. on February 18, 2009 at 5:48 pm Kthulah

    I’ll second Tood on the red meat thing. A good rule of thumb is to not eat animals you can’t kill with your bare hands more often than it would take to organize a hunting party.

    This is how our ancestors ate. Red meat was a rarity not just because of hunting, but even with early agriculture, you can get more protein from a cow or chicken alive than you can dead. With chickens though, there can be a “male excess” if you let too many of them hatch, and it’s a good idea to eat the extra roosters before they get old enough to make trouble.

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  133. on February 18, 2009 at 5:48 pm Expat

    Their will be no equivalent saying, straight-up “DON’T GET FAT”.

    Yet there just was such an article published. Right here. This valid publishing media is the forefront, the harbinger.

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  134. on February 18, 2009 at 5:56 pm Tood

    The myth that meat is the only source of protein is absurd, and a creation of the meat industry.

    Lentils and soybeans have the same protein as beef, but no fat. Thus, one can consume MORE protein before feeling full, from eating lentils.

    Thus, lentils and soybeans are the perfect bodybuilding food. Why else are protein powders made of soy and not ‘beef extract’?

    If you need to eat 150 grams of protein a day, I can do that with lentils and soybeans much more easily than anyone eating steaks can.

    Not to mention that lentils are also just about the cheapest food you can buy AND have an infinite shelf-life while dry. They really are a miracle food.

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  135. on February 18, 2009 at 5:58 pm lynch

    @Tood: regarding fried foods, do you differentiate between stir-fry and deep-frying? I am under the impression that stir-fried meals are generally healthy if done with a minimum of oil

    @kthulah: what oil(s) do you recommend? i use olive oil for some things, but IIRC it breaks down at a fairly low temp, so I’m leery of using for stir-fry and such.

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  136. on February 18, 2009 at 5:58 pm Gannon

    I’m probably one of the few guys here who likes slightly chubby women, specially teen girls in the 22-25 BMI range.

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  137. on February 18, 2009 at 5:58 pm Seeking Alpha

    Tood – I don’t know who thinks meat is the only source of protein. I just know that a Cajun Rib Eye and a big, spicy Red from South America is a lot tastier than lentils and soybeans.

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  138. on February 18, 2009 at 5:59 pm Tood

    lynch,

    You are right. Deep frying is bad because of the amount of oil absorbed. Stir-frying is healthy if oil is at a minimum.

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  139. on February 18, 2009 at 6:01 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Tood – You’re more apt to get colon cancer from eating too many refined carbohydrates than you will from red meat.

    The studies that were conducted to “prove” that red meat is bad for you were tainted by not specifically proving what kind of meat was being consumed.

    All meat is not equal.

    Typically processed meats are full of carcinogens lie nitrates and nitrites, MSG, dextrose, and all other sorts of garbage meant to preserve meats for long distance shipping and storage. Great for food producers profits, not great for consumer health.

    Also, red meat is loaded with all sorts of healthy, essential nutrients like Omega 3 fatty acids, carnotine, conjugated linoleic acids and vitamin E…PROVIDED the meat comes from an animal eating it’s natural food in it’s optimal environment.

    That means free range, grass fed bovines…not the typical, grain fed, feed lot meat being factory farmed and sold cheaply the world over.

    The Plains Indians lived on diets of almost pure Buffalo meat and fat, and they never had epidemics of colon cancer.

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  140. on February 18, 2009 at 6:01 pm Tood

    ” just know that a Cajun Rib Eye and a big, spicy Red from South America is a lot tastier than lentils and soybeans.”

    You haven’t had a nice Indian lentil stew with garlic, turmeric, basil, and a bay leaf.

    Taste is a factor that we must control. That is the whole point. Don’t eat a steak more than 1-2 times a month, and NEVER eat a burger at McDonalds, or a hot-dog at a ballgame.

    Again, these are things Americans grow up doing, but as I said before, American cultuire is to dietary health what North Korea and Zimbabwe are to economics. This is a particular shame given how cheap high-quality veggies are in America.

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  141. on February 18, 2009 at 6:02 pm Expat

    Box,

    Blows to the head cause brain damage. Even footballers (soccer players) have been know to die, decades later, from brain injury caused by head butting the balls. New Scientist recently did an article on this, using autopsies as the evidence.

    Avoid any blow to the head.

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  142. on February 18, 2009 at 6:07 pm Tood

    “Avoid any blow to the head.”

    Yes. This is because the brain is semi-liquid (about the consistency of butter), and a blow causes the head to jerk backwards or sideways much faster than the brain itself, causing the strands that attach the brain to the inside of the skull, to potentially tear.

    Since America has 42,000 deaths and 2 million injuries in car crashes a year, and most of those are due to head injuries (the head hitting the glass windshield), I think it is quite reasonable to wear a helmet while driving at high speeds on the highway. Racecar drivers do it. People will say you look stupid, but who will be the one who lives in the car crash?

    I don’t do this myself, but have seriously considered it quite a few times. In fact, only the front and sides of the head need to be protected, not the back. A bicycle helmet with a face-guard can suffice.

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  143. on February 18, 2009 at 6:09 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Tood, you couldn’t be more wrong.\

    Folks, the important thing about frying is the quality of oil you use, not that you are deep frying or lightly sauteeing.

    Different oils are obtained differently, and different oils have different heat and light thresholds before oxidizing and becoming rancid.

    It’s perfectly healthy to deep fry in lard or tallow of animals that have been raised in a healthy environment on their natural diets, just as it is equally healthy to deep fry in fully saturated tropical coconut or palm oils. The saturated fats have a very high heat/light threshold, so the molecules are not damaged from high heat frying.

    Extra virgin olive oil, on the other hand, is extremely fragile, and will oxidize and go rancid from simple light exposure, and you should never fry with it. Fry your veggies in grade A butter and drizzle the olive oil on after you remove the saute from the heat source.

    Typical vegetable oils you find in the store (anything NOT specifically labeled “extra virgin” or “expellar-pressed”) are all mass manufactured using high heat and high pressure and chemical solvents like hexane, which contribute to carcinogenic free-radicals from the rampant oxidization that results from such processing.

    “Corn” oil is fragile to heat, and rancid before it’s even bottled and sold in the store. They have to filter and deodarize it before they can bottle it because it’s already been damaged by the mass extraction process.

    Same goes for “PURE” olive oil, canola (rapeseed), and soy oil that is not cold expellar pressed.

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  144. on February 18, 2009 at 6:10 pm Tood

    Dave from Hawaii,

    That is why I said 1-2 times a month for a high-quality steak is OK, rather than zero.

    “The Plains Indians lived on diets of almost pure Buffalo meat and fat, and they never had epidemics of colon cancer.”

    Don’t be so sure. They usually died before the age of 50 anyway (which was the white life expectancy in 1910 anyway), and thus were too young to get actual data from on colon cancer.

    There is a good chance that plains Indians who managed to live past 50 did have colon cancer. Also, how can you ascertain that they didn’t have colon cancer? It is not a visible disease, and such deaths might have been attributed to ‘spirits’ and such.

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  145. on February 18, 2009 at 6:13 pm Usually Lurking

    Yet there just was such an article published.

    This was not an article. When Maytag and GE call and say that they want to advertise on the page next to “Why I Left My Fat Wife” in The Atlantic Monthly, I will know that the tides have changed. Until then, don’t hold your breath.

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  146. on February 18, 2009 at 6:14 pm jackson

    Gannon,

    I don’t mind girls with an extra few pounds on them. Makes their T&A awesome, if they have the right genetics. The downside is that they are more likely to let themselves go later.

    Note I said “a few”, you fat fucks. You are not carrying around “a little” extra weight. You are not “shapely”. You are corrupting the English language.

    And no, you internet posers, a girl 10 pounds over model weight is not a hippo. Go masturbate in your power rangers pajamas and stop bringing down the level of conversation.

    That said, fit and skinny is fine too.

    Todd,

    Eating a ton of lentils is also a good way to make horse shits. I wouldn’t suggest eating them for breakfast. Best make it in the evening, when you are not going out anymore for the day.

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  147. on February 18, 2009 at 6:14 pm The G Manifesto

    Seeking Alpha

    “Come on MPM… eat red meat 1 – 2 times a month. You can’t agree with that.”

    In practice I actually do meal red meat constantly. (Especially in Buenos Aires.)

    On paper I don’t as much.

    – MPM

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  148. on February 18, 2009 at 6:18 pm Dave from Hawaii

    The Plains Indians did not have epidemics of cancer of any kind prior to introduction to Western diets of refined carbohydrates.

    If they died before 50, that was due to a hard, violent lifestyle, not the nutritional deficiencies that are rampant and ubiquitous nowadays.

    Red Meat is perfectly healthy…if it was raised in it’s healthy, natural environment.

    Cows, buffalo and other bovines that live on free range pastureland produce meat and dairy that is rich in nutrients derived from the grass they chew.

    Vegetarianism is absolute political propaganda or religious based delusion.

    Whether we were designed by a god or evolved in accordance to natural selection, it is a physiological fact that we have incisors for tearing animal flesh, and our stomach’s produce hydrochloric acid…biological features only found in animals that are omnivores or carnivores.

    If eating meat per say were “cancer causing” and bad for you, why would have those physiological features in our dentistry and digestive tracts?

    No, it is the current methods of mass factory farming with feed lots and grain feeds coupled with preserving meats with toxic chemicals and additives that makes meat eating “bad.”

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  149. on February 18, 2009 at 6:19 pm Expat

    This was not an article. When Maytag and GE call and say that they want to advertise on the page next to “Why I Left My Fat Wife”

    Ha ha.

    Ok, but what about google ads?

    Lots of websites pull huge hits, and some fine funds.

    Readership and social influence makes the written word officially “published”.

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  150. on February 18, 2009 at 6:32 pm Rain And

    Roissy doesn’t go nearly far enough! In a truly analogous story the wife’s weight gain would be entirely due to biological changes associated with her pregnancy. The man in the first story was dumped because he loved his family and switched into sexually unattractive, accountable beta-dad mode, not because he was unemployed.

    Also in a truly analogous story, we’d have to know the laws were stacked against the woman, and that she would receive no alimony, and only the barest custody rights for being dumped. The first story doesn’t even need to spell out the fate of the dumped, but the second story does, because it needs to be in a “bizarro universe” where the laws are stacked against the mother.

    If you had a wife, heaven help us, and she gained weight that way, I feel sure that you really would leave her for another woman without any serious qualms of conscience.

    “If you had a wife” is a key phrase here, since this is why he doesn’t get married. The woman in the story chose to get married and have a kid.

    Also, roissy would be punished by the law in custody and alimony terms. The two scenarios are not equal.

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  151. on February 18, 2009 at 6:37 pm Tood

    Dave from Hawaii.

    Wrong. How do you know that plains Indians were not getting colon cancer, given 1) Most of them died before 50 anyway, and thus too young to get the disease, and 2) there was no way to determine of the cause of death was colon cancer? The plains Indians did not do autopsies on their dead in the 19th century.

    So your ‘plains Indians did not get colon cancer’ claim falls flat.

    I think the ‘teeth’ argument is a weak one. Gorillas have much larger incisors than humans, and a much more powerful bite. Yet gorillas are vegetarians. What is your explanation for that?

    Red meat should be eaten no more than 1-2 times a month, max, if you must.

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  152. on February 18, 2009 at 6:37 pm Willard Libby

    Obsidian – I would then tell her the truth about White Women: that, on average, they age faster and at a harsher rate than do Women of other racil groups,

    That is only true for the relatively superficial qualities of skin collagen, hair texture etc.

    In other more important areas black women seem to age far worse than White women. Black women have a higher rate of aging related issues of breast cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity and other pathologies.

    But most black women start off looking like shit so people aren’t that shocked when they age.

    On the other hand a pretty, fair featured White women noticeably ages because beauty wilts with age.

    Tood – The myth that meat is the only source of protein is absurd, and a creation of the meat industry.

    Lentils and soybeans have the same protein as beef, but no fat. Thus, one can consume MORE protein before feeling full, from eating lentils.

    Not true. Not all proteins are the same. They vary in amino acid content. Protein is useless to the body until it is metabolized into it’s constituent amino acids.

    I like lentil soup but it does not have the same protein profile as high quality beef.

    Thus, lentils and soybeans are the perfect bodybuilding food. Why else are protein powders made of soy and not ‘beef extract’?

    Nobody interesting in building a muscular body wastes his time with soy. The high quality protein drinks are 100% whey protein. Egg white powder protein is also excellent. As is white albacore tuna.

    People are fat because they eat to feed their emotional life instead of using food as a kind of medicine to nourish and heal their body.

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  153. on February 18, 2009 at 6:42 pm Anonymous

    90-95% of a woman’s social status is her looks. A fat woman married to a rich man still does not have very high social status.

    I”m pretty sure this is not true. Good looks for a woman are a means to an end, especially in the days when a woman could not acquire social status for herself, and had to marry it achieve any power. So for a single woman, yes, good looks can often lead to high social status, but the two are not synonmous. For a married woman, her social status, especially in the past, is derived primarily from her husband’s staus. So a fat, rich wife, can crack the whip, have people kowtow and cater to her just as much as hot rich wife can. Guys may not desire her as much, but she is beyond that point now, with her goal of high status achieved. The rulers of the social scene for high status people don’t tend to be the hottest women, but the older, frumpier, and yes fatter wives.

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  154. on February 18, 2009 at 6:45 pm Butters

    Roissy:

    You’ve talked about the recent phenomenon of courts forcing husbands to support the kids of their adulterous wives. Apparently the Spanish are having none of it: “Adulterous Spanish woman told to pay husband €200,000 in damages.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4685231/Adulterous-Spanish-woman-told-to-pay-husband-200000-in-damages.html

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  155. on February 18, 2009 at 6:50 pm howdy

    Tood, you recommend eating soy – but soy has feminizing properties doesn’t it?

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  156. on February 18, 2009 at 6:51 pm Gannon

    “I think the ‘teeth’ argument is a weak one. Gorillas have much larger incisors than humans, and a much more powerful bite. Yet gorillas are vegetarians. What is your explanation for that?”

    Yeah, but from all the primates man is the only one who abandoned the the jungle. Why? Because he started to hunt and eat meat, for tens of thousands of years. By the way, chimps who are the closest to the homo sapiens eat some meat. And don’t start with the bonobo BS.
    Still, variation and MODERATION, as well as drinking lots of water are key for good health.

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  157. on February 18, 2009 at 6:56 pm Anonymous

    . So a fat, rich wife, can crack the whip, have people kowtow and cater to her just as much as hot rich wife can.

    Which fat rich wives are in teen or women’s magazines as idols?

    Paying to get your laundry done doesn’t mean you are looked up to as an authority in the eyes of laundress.

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  158. on February 18, 2009 at 6:56 pm Expat

    . So a fat, rich wife, can crack the whip, have people kowtow and cater to her just as much as hot rich wife can.

    Which fat rich wives are in teen or women’s magazines as idols?

    Paying to get your laundry done doesn’t mean you are looked up to as an authority in the eyes of laundress.

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  159. on February 18, 2009 at 7:01 pm David Alexander

    Their will be no equivalent saying, straight-up “DON’T GET FAT”.

    The problem is such an equivalent is that it gets in the way of idealism, and it’s clunky desire for “love”. In other words, people don’t want to write “Don’t Get Fat” because people still harbour certain notions in that we should love each other regardless of our physical appearance, and even if our s/o becomes fat, we should love him or her for who they are as people.

    The problem with that is of course, appearance is important, especially in terms of male desire, and that hoping for love isn’t going to magically solve the problem.

    Also, I think Roissy indeed agrees with the Marie Claire article because the raison d’etre of his blog is to point out that women hate betas, which the article does.

    If I had written that, people would have complained…

    Regardless, I don’t think that women hate betas per se, but because they’re sexually unattractive, they’re simply blended into the background, and thus unnoticed. It’s similar to how most men don’t hate fat girls in general.

    Hell, I don’t think my female friends *hate* me, even the ones who became sick of me since they even wished a happy birthday to me on my birthday…

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  160. on February 18, 2009 at 7:05 pm DT

    Tood,

    Dead wrong. If you want to get colon cancer and die in your 50s like Tony Snow or Joel Siegel, then eat a lot of red meat.

    The lifetime risk of developing colon cancer in the U.S. is 7%. Most colon cancer cases occur among people in their 60’s and 70’s. Dying in your 50’s from colon cancer is rather rare. We as a nation consume a lot of red meat, especially the “bad” grain fed beef and the “bad processed” meat, yet we’re not dropping like flies in our 50’s.

    I’m not saying there’s no risk at all, but the data does not support an extreme position. The data on lung cancer tells me I should never touch a cigarette. The data on skin cancer tells me I should always, always wear sun block. The data on colon cancer? I think I can safely have meat more than twice a month. Even the “bad” meat. Quite frankly I take more of a risk going out doors even with sun block, but I’m not about to give up the beach or bike rides around the local park.

    David,

    The Plains Indians did not have epidemics of cancer of any kind prior to introduction to Western diets of refined carbohydrates. If they died before 50, that was due to a hard, violent lifestyle, not the nutritional deficiencies that are rampant and ubiquitous nowadays.

    Cancer risk across the board is strongly correlated with age. Even when you’re abusing your body it takes a while to damage your DNA to the point of cancer. It’s pointless to say that a people with an average life expectancy of under 50 years didn’t have high cancer rates. They were usually dead before their DNA could decay to the point of cancer.

    If eating meat per say were “cancer causing” and bad for you, why would have those physiological features in our dentistry and digestive tracts?

    Even though I disagree with Todd as to the safe level of meat intake, this is false reasoning. This is like reasoning that since our eyes see best in daylight, we are designed for daylight and no harm can come from being in the sun all day. In fact, more cancer cases are caused by sunlight exposure than anything else. And the data showing a link there is exceptionally strong, as in there’s no question about it.

    …coupled with preserving meats with toxic chemicals and additives…

    This misconception regarding toxicity leads people to countless false conclusions. There is no such thing as a “toxic chemical.” The dose is the poison. Everything can kill you in the right dose, and everything is harmless in the right dose. It’s just a matter of finding the right dose for each particular thing so you don’t cross into toxic levels.

    We are bombarded with articles on cancer risks due to “chemicals and additives”. Unfortunately we’re never bombarded with the dose levels used in studies. Case in point: remember the potato chip acrylamide cancer story? Yeah, acrylamide caused cancer in rats. And acrylamide is found in potato chips. What the MSM articles on the topic failed to mention, however, is that to get a cancer risk dosage of acrylamide from potato chips you would have to eat 60 pounds of chips PER DAY. If you were doing that cancer would be your last concern. You have about as much cancer risk from the dose of acrylamide in potato chips, in the quantities people consume, as you do from stubbing your big toe.

    We’ve been taught that there are such things as “artificial” chemicals which are “toxic” and “bad”. We’ve been taught this to the point that people don’t even think of “natural” foods as having “chemicals”. Well everything is a freaking chemical. Fruits and vegetables have trace amounts of more naturally occurring chemicals than you can count. Some of them are actually quite toxic, nature’s own pesticides (literally). Many of those chemicals are also cancer causing when fed to rats at the same doses we feed “artificial” chemicals. And those doses are never any where near the doses we experience in real life.

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  161. on February 18, 2009 at 7:32 pm Firepower

    JerrDogg

    I’m an asshole most of the time, yet even I view chasing pussy as taking a distant 2nd place to raising a child. Especially one’s own child.

    I think Chelsea gets a “squirmy” feeling every time she attempts blowing some Ivy League ACLU Environmentalist vying to wed the Heir To The Clintonian Legacy. But, fwiw, she is genetically her mother’s daughter, so I doubt she sucks it at all lol.

    For the record, if the author pumps out any daughters raised in the vulnerability of that fatherless home, I’ll be sure to swoop in on her for a pump n’ dump – when she becomes of age, of course.

    peace

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  162. on February 18, 2009 at 7:43 pm 27-year-old Married Woman

    Much of a grown woman’s social status, at least in more traditional societies, also derives from having children.

    Maybe fat wives sense, deep down, that their status as Mother of His Children helps protect them from social censure.

    After having children, a woman’s meat market value takes a humongous hit even if she weighs exactly the same– so maybe it seems futile to even try recapturing the sexy.

    You look in the mirror with all the stretch marks and saggy breasts and sigh, “Goodbye, my youth!”

    But lots of women cross the line from realistic resignation to outright apathy, and this is obviously no good.

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  163. on February 18, 2009 at 7:56 pm Tood

    “The rulers of the social scene for high status people don’t tend to be the hottest women, but the older, frumpier, and yes fatter wives.”

    Bull. Without the power of the state backing them in the form of divorce court, they are nothing.

    Elizabeth Edwards, Silda Spitzer, Hillary Clinton, etc. still couldn’t keep their husbands faithful, despite their ‘status’. Hillary’s status was even partially earned on her own, as she was making most of the family’s income for a long time.

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  164. on February 18, 2009 at 8:05 pm 27-year-old Married Woman

    Dougjnn:

    “that society in general, and SWPL women in particular feel that that wife in Marie Claire was far more justified than the married man that Roissy pretended to be whose wife got fat post marriage”

    I don’t know about that. I think the article was published because it made that bunch of women feel ever-so-slightly uncomfortable about what they claim to believe versus the truth about it.

    For one thing, the article *doesn’t* overtly blame the husband– the author goes out of her way to make him seem like a basically good guy who got caught up in a marital death-trap not of his own making.

    She explains that all the blame she placed on him at the time was “in her own head.”

    I think this theme is going mainstream.

    Not that submissive stay-at-home-dads ever caught on in the first place, but that we were all supposed to think it would be great if it did. And I think that idea is losing steam FAST.

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  165. on February 18, 2009 at 8:12 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Tood – you addressed the teeth, but ignored the hydrochloric aspect of my argument.

    Let’s not get carried away in arguing semantics over Plains Indians mortality pre-Western contact…there is no real written records other than sources of first contact like the Lewis & Clark journals (which are full of accounts of elderly plains indians who were in picture perfect health on their rich, red-meat diets).

    Fact is, red meat has been unjustly demonized…and it’s vegetarian based propaganda that is primarily responsible.

    It’s always the vegan’s that talk about “meat industry propaganda.” Well guess what…what are the biggest food manufacturing corporations in this world? BIG AG GRAIN MANUFACTURERS. The “meat industry” can’t hold a candle to the giant agricultural corporations when it comes to lobbying government, funding biased studies and buying media influence.

    Soy, corn and wheat are the biggest crops produced the world over, and the multi-billion dollar corporations like Monsanto and Cargill that depend on the masses consuming their fare have far more money and influence to put forth the kind of bullshit arguments and corrupted studies you are citing.

    DT – Yes, I agree with you about “chemicals.” Which is why I wrote “toxic chemicals.” Additives that have been shown to have negative health effects in even small amounts. Monosodium Glutamate. Hydrogenated Oils. Nitritates and Nitrites. High Fructose Corn Syrup. All of it is chemicals added to foods to create addictions, and/or to preserve foods for long term storage and shipping…all of which WILL have negative health consequences when consumed repeatedly over a long period of time.

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  166. on February 18, 2009 at 8:13 pm Welmer

    Roissy, that was a stellar piece of satire.

    You need a column — really.

    LikeLike


  167. on February 18, 2009 at 8:15 pm 27-year-old Married Woman

    Spitzer, Clinton, Edwards, et al, surely don’t stay married because they literally can’t afford to get divorces, but because of public appearances if they did. These people hate a crack in the facade, hate negative publicity.

    Cheaper to keep her, maybe, but for entirely different reasons than this is true for average joes.

    Anyway, it seems to me that no-fault has the effect of cutting the frumpy fatties OUT of the picture more often than cutting them IN. (I’m opposed to no-fault, just to be clear.)

    If you can’t just up and walk out of a marriage, you still have to bring your frumptastic Missus along to the charity-ball circuit, right?

    Would Donald Trump still be seen in public with his first wife in the absence of easy divorce?

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  168. on February 18, 2009 at 8:19 pm Usually Lurking

    Readership and social influence makes the written word officially “published”.

    If you have to put it in quotes, it don’t count.

    Steve Sailer can get Google Ad, but if some Magazine makes a small reference to him in there blog, they will end up getting holy hell for it.

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  169. on February 18, 2009 at 8:20 pm Anonymous

    Uuhhhhh, if I was hanging out/working with hot male models all the time, I would want to cheat too, (at least until I’m 35*) b/c it is highly doubtful that my husband would be as hot as the permanently young men that I was around. Her husband (in the original article) sounds like the dude who didn’t realize he needed to give up on a pipe dream that at that point was not going to happen. Once you have kids, some dreams, gotta go.
    – Original Grace

    * The 35 comment is b/c my family does age REALLY well on both sides. My relatives have spoken to me, and are concerned about the level of sun damage that I took on as a teen, which they didn’t have. I look about 3-4 years older than they did at my age. So I could hit “the wall” at 30-32 instead of around 35 like my mom, aunts and older cousins. I’ve often been surprised by women who haven’t heard honest evaluations from family, and are shocked that 12+ years of hard drinking is not cute at 30.

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  170. on February 18, 2009 at 8:22 pm Anonymous

    And firepower, I TOTALLY agree. That’s weak. Leave b/c you want better, not b/c someone embarassed you.
    -Original Grace.

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  171. on February 18, 2009 at 8:29 pm JerrDogg

    Don’t get me wrong. I love my wife. I just want to also love more women. If I can afford the excess baggage of extra women at the same time why not? If you can’t afford it and you’re making little toad-face loser progeny that gets neglected then you deserve to be scorned. But what if you make great smart kids with other women, that are nurtured well?. This is the way it has been done since the caveman era. Just read the bible.

    Absolute Marital monogomy = Family values for kids?

    Bullshit!

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  172. on February 18, 2009 at 8:39 pm Anonymous

    Obsidian, I thought you were black. Is that why “white” was in commas? Not to contradict, but if your mother married a certain kind of man, your advice is known from the first easter that you put on tights, and had play dates with boys where mothers discussed how cute your (you and said cute boy) children would be. The women in it to win it, are usually done playing around by 23, 25 if they’ve got the looks. They already know the score. Again though, most women are only going to keep that up, if they’re with a man that provides enough for the effort, and can pay for said effort.
    – Original Grace.

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  173. on February 18, 2009 at 8:40 pm Anonymous

    Keeping husbands faithful, and having social status, are two entirely different things. Even beautiful women get cheated on, so that, in and of itself, doesn’t mean much.

    However, the wives of the most powerful men in the world somehow aren’t the most beautiful women in the world. A fact that no one thinks is remarkable. The women are are Alphas, despite their lack of good looks, because they can make people to do pretty much whatever they like. Michelle Obama may look like a Klingon, as someone has mentioned, but if she wished, she could have your liver for breakfast.

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  174. on February 18, 2009 at 8:47 pm Anonymous

    JKC, the bathrooms in Wonderland are one to a room only. So unless you heard obvious sniffing and snorting over the jukebox, dj, or bartender’s ipod, you didn’t “see” anything.
    -Original Grace.

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  175. on February 18, 2009 at 9:19 pm Daniel

    roissy…

    I’m sure some day you’ll get sick of writing this blog. But I hope that day is a long, long way off. Pure gold.

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  176. on February 18, 2009 at 10:21 pm Anton

    Sorry, folks, it matters not a whit what kind of food you eat, where it comes from, or how you cook it.

    Listen carefully: Eat too much, move too little, you get fat.

    It’s not office jobs either. Been to a college or high school lately? Heck, to a middle school? Very overweight people everywhere.

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  177. on February 18, 2009 at 10:22 pm Obsidian

    Hello Willard,
    See, there you go again.

    You mix in facts along with your opinions, on Black Women. Let’s seperate the wheat from the chaff, shall we?

    Now…

    What you said wrt health problems facing Black Women are broadly accurate, particularly as it relates to obsesity. Fair enough.

    But then you go and mess up your point by bringing in a complete non-sequitur, saying that “most Black Women look like shit anyway” or words to that effect.

    Now, I respect your right to think anything you want about my Sistas. As an American, I applaud your right to voice your view.

    But let’s get it straight, sir-it is your highly subjective view. Nothing more. Moreover, it does not negate or diminish MY POINT, WHICH IS:

    On average, White Women age less gracefully than do other Women of Color. One of the major reasons why so many White Men choose Asian brides is due to this fact.

    And, of course, we can compare very Black Women like Angela Bassett and Robin Givens and their White counterparts, and let the people decide who looks better, NOW. Dinah Shore aint never had nothin on Oprah in that regard-now let’s try real hard to *focus* Willard-we’re NOT talking about what YOU find sexually attractive. OK? Its irrelevant to this discussion. What we ARE examining is my core premise in my hypothetical talk to my White daughter. Which is, again, that, on average, White Women do not age as well as do other Women of Color, and yes Willard, that includes the Michelle Obamas and Oprah Winfreys of the world.

    Now…I know you have demonstrated a degree of sentience here. Let’s try, very hard, to be reasoned in our response. On point. Focused.

    Like a laser beam.

    Your turn.

    The Obsidian

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  178. on February 18, 2009 at 10:32 pm Obsidian

    Hello Grace,
    As always, I enjoy your comments, but I am sorry to say that I don’t follow your recent ones referenced to me. Could you please restate?

    Thanks.

    O

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  179. on February 18, 2009 at 10:39 pm ironrailsironweights

    Here’s something you don’t see every day … what was recently a hideous pedophilic Bald Eagle, now in the process of growing back into a GNP.

    Peter

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  180. on February 18, 2009 at 10:48 pm Anonymous

    That is only true for the relatively superficial qualities of skin collagen, hair texture etc.

    In other more important areas black women seem to age far worse than White women. Black women have a higher rate of aging related issues of breast cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity and other pathologies.

    But most black women start off looking like shit so people aren’t that shocked when they age.

    On the other hand a pretty, fair featured White women noticeably ages because beauty wilts with age.

    you are sooooooo fucking thin-skinned willard libby, lol! you really come off like a fragile lil bitch! “ohhh noes, someone said something not flattering about white women, *sob* time to lash out like a child. but let me sound scientific while displaying my bitchiness”

    man the fuck up bitch 😀

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  181. on February 18, 2009 at 11:48 pm Willard Libby

    Obsidian – Now, I respect your right to think anything you want about my Sistas. As an American, I applaud your right to voice your view.

    Thanks for the permission. I said “Most” not “All”.

    Here’s an exception.

    On average, White Women age less gracefully than do other Women of Color.

    I don’t believe there is any such people as Women of Color. There are many racial differences among non-White women. And I stand by my point that your definition of aging has more to do with superficial skin/hair issues over heart/liver/cancer/weight/ etc etc issues.

    Don’t confuse a woman’s health with just her looks.

    One of the major reasons why so many White Men choose Asian brides is due to this fact.

    I don’t know why White men choose Asian brides. I don’t think it’s just over the issue of skin sagging and wrinkles with age considering that many of those couples get together in their 20s.

    Dinah Shore aint never had nothin on Oprah in that regard

    If Oprah Winfrey is your idea of a black women who has aged well then she is my example of a black woman who looked like shit when she was younger so you don’t notice much of a transition as she ages.

    Here’s Dinah Shore at age 57 which is 2 years older than Oprah is now. And no I’m not going to search for Oprah pictures because it’s late and I don’t want to make myself nauseous.

    let’s try real hard to *focus* Willard-we’re NOT talking about what YOU find sexually attractive. OK? Its irrelevant to this discussion.

    OK, now *focus*, aging is not only about what YOU find attractive about a woman. Aging is about her overall HEALTH. Saying as you did that “I would then tell her the truth about White Women: that, on average, they age faster and at a harsher rate than do Women of other racil groups” is not accurate when judging the full effects of aging.

    What we ARE examining is my core premise in my hypothetical talk to my White daughter. Which is, again, that, on average, White Women do not age as well as do other Women of Color

    Your obsession with White women even to the point of creating a hypothetical White daughter is predictable. But what you said is factually wrong.

    You should focus on your more realistic prospect of having a black daughter and advise her about health issues because in fact black females on average do not age as well as White women in overall health or lifespan regardless of what you think about the comparative looks of celebrities.

    that includes the Michelle Obamas and Oprah Winfreys of the world.

    Michelle is 45 and Oprah is 54. They both look like shit, always have, always will. There are plenty of White women who look better than them at their respective ages.

    But that’s just aging’s effects on LOOKS. Your focus on women is too narrow. The aging process is about overall health. Remember that when you have a daughter to advise.

    In conclusion to your initial comment –

    Obsidian – I would then tell her the truth about White Women: that, on average, they age faster and at a harsher rate than do Women of other racil groups,

    I repeat:

    That is only true for the relatively superficial qualities of skin collagen, hair texture etc.

    In other more important areas black women seem to age far worse than White women. Black women have a higher rate of aging related issues of breast cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity and other pathologies.

    But most black women start off looking like shit so people aren’t that shocked when they age.

    On the other hand a pretty, fair featured White women noticeably ages because beauty wilts with age.

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  182. on February 18, 2009 at 11:56 pm Joe

    The trouble with Brayfield’s article is that it is self-deceiving. After explaining in detail how she lost her attraction to her husband due to his lack of status and unmasculine household position, Brayfield then adduces a single example of bitterness on her husband’s part (a bitterness seemed to surprise her when it came out in couple’s therapy), and on the basis of it, blames the entire dissolution of their relationship on his resentment towards her success and not her disgust at his failure.
    In reality, his resentment towards her was likely mostly caused by her initial coldness towards him. His resentment did not poison the relationship, her loss of attraction to him did -still as a woman it is her nature to sanctimoniously attribute her lack of attraction to her husband to some moral flaw of his. “Not only is he beta, but he’s a bastard too” Convenient!
    That she is not *yet* unattracted to her next stay at home husband is most likely attributable to the fact that she knew what the score was from the beginning and thus did not suffer from disappointed expectations. Also, some women just have personality traits that make it the case that they will have the same types of romantic partners (and what type they are most attracted to is not necessarily the most important of these traits). So she may be settling.
    She may, of course, be initially attracted t this guy for a variety of reasons -the fact that he is a new man not least among them- but perhaps this attraction will get old, or maybe he just has enough separate positive traits taht she can overlook his beta-ization.

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  183. on February 19, 2009 at 12:02 am Brutus

    Commenter’s…..and their useless rants.

    Nonetheless, Roissy I’m a fan of all your golden post.

    Keep this shit up!!!

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  184. on February 19, 2009 at 12:13 am Food for thought

    Tood-

    I hope you check this again because what you write is so true. While this is nerdy to say, I am guided by the BBC show, “You are what you eat.” The nutritionist/host of that show is one funny Brit lady who “cleans” up people’s diets by concentrating on how badly they feel and helping them choose foods that will address their problems, like lethargy, gas, depression, etc.- these stem from eating crap food, rather than fruits, vegetable, and whole grains consistently.

    While the focus of the show is not on losing weight, all the people naturally lose weight anyway, and more importantly, look and feel better; their skin and hair are always shinier, and clearer. It’s obviously all about the quality of the food!

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  185. on February 19, 2009 at 12:24 am Michael Blowhard

    Tood — I’m with Dougjnn on this. Have you read Gary Taubes? Michael Eades? Barry Groves? You’re falling for what may be one of the biggest scientific/medical frauds ever. (Tons of fascinating ethical/political/psychological sides to this, btw …) I’m just an amateur and a fan, but let me suggest some resources to investigate — start with the video of Taubes that Dougjnn supplied. Afterwards, read Taubes’ “Good Calories, Bad Calories.” It’s pretty mind-blowing — in brief, much of what we’ve been told for the last 40 years about health, weight, heart disease and eating has been wrong-wrong-wrong. Some more things to check out.

    Mark Sisson’s blog:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/

    Michael Eades’ blog:
    http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/

    Jimmy Moore
    http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/

    John Briffa
    http://www.drbriffa.com/blog/

    Richard Nikoley
    http://www.freetheanimal.com/root/

    Hyperlipid:
    http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

    Whole Health Source
    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/

    And “Fat Head,” a new DVD, is an excellent intro — there’s no better way to learn and get up to speed.

    You can sample a lot of “Fat Head” here:
    http://www.fathead-movie.com/

    Weight loss and stable blood sugar is easier to achieve than most people know.

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  186. on February 19, 2009 at 12:41 am Last Line’s the Charm « Fancy Plans… and Pants to Match

    […] annals of the Earth! « Terminal? Last Line’s the Charm February 18, 2009 E p i c […]

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  187. on February 19, 2009 at 12:56 am Kthulah

    Lynch asks, “@kthulah: what oil(s) do you recommend? i use olive oil for some things, but IIRC it breaks down at a fairly low temp, so I’m leery of using for stir-fry and such.”

    Olive oil, minimally extracted (still orange/yellow) palm oil, or schmaltz (animal fat).

    Ideally, a person should eat whole, raw foods as much as possible, but if we’re going to cook anything, it should at least be made of things we’re evolved to digest easily.

    I haven’t gone 100% paleo diet at this point, but just rolling back to old fashioned has been very good for me. The outside is looking much better, and I expect good things on my next round of tests. I’ll try to get an ultrasound of my liver while I’m at it.

    I really have to thank Kathleen Daelemans for showing me how to do things in a livable way. Anybody with a fat wife who might also be making you fat should go to her website.

    It’s a step one. Some of the people who post there are focused on weight loss, but a good many are just healthy eaters maintaining a healthy lifestyle. She’s not an overboard purist, but there’s plenty there that will help turn things around without breaking your budget or making you feel deprived.

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  188. on February 19, 2009 at 1:13 am Kthulah

    JerrDogg says, “If I can afford the excess baggage of extra women at the same time why not? If you can’t afford it and you’re making little toad-face loser progeny that gets neglected then you deserve to be scorned. But what if you make great smart kids with other women, that are nurtured well?. This is the way it has been done since the caveman era. Just read the bible.”

    The problem with that is that you promised monogamy to someone who expects/demands it. To take on a mistress without your wife’s consent could create drama that you don’t need, plus you’re asking someone to accept a half-relationship in which she can’t even be seen with you publically.

    I wouldn’t ask someone I truly cared for, who was not by nature, a whore, to play a whore role for my convenience. So if you’re going to do chicks on the side and in secret, don’t offer anything more than dick, and don’t fall in love.

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  189. on February 19, 2009 at 1:26 am anon-c

    I don’t think a woman porking out is quite equivalent to the utter failure of a man in the Marie Claire article, because women aren’t just good for the bedroom – they run the home, too. So the hypothetical porker is only half a failure as a woman, if she’s still a mommy/cook/cleaner, rather than an utter failure.

    I would bet that the divorce rates among couples where the man stays at home is higher than it is among couples where the wife gets fat.

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  190. on February 19, 2009 at 1:56 am Bill

    SuburbanSweetheart: The best part of this blog is the commenters who eat it all up, write it all down, nod their heads & say enthusiastically, “Me too, man. ME TOO!”

    You’re a dick, Roissy, but you’re brilliant. Are you ever embarrassed by the caliber of your commenters?
    Looks like you showed your cards by calling him a brilliant dick. If you want Roissy to give you a good rogering, may as well come out and say it. Don’t disguise it as some sort of lame commentary about his readers. I think most of the people who leave comments on this blog tend to have very intelligent, thoughtful things to say–for the most part. there are some exceptions, or at least those who aren’t nearly as smart as they think they are (e.g. Obsidian, though I even found myself agreeing with much of what he wrote on this particular issue), so forgive me for LOLing at being called stupid by someone whose blog is as lame as yours (yes, I took a quick look at it). I’ll be NICE and stop there.

    Obsidian, I want to thank you for admitting what you originally denied in Roissy’s “My Inaugural Balls” thread a few weeks ago. My argument was that, in general, black men find white women very attractive (e.g. Susan Crain Bakos can only get black men to bang her and she’s a complete pig) while white men do not find black women attractive. You went on and on, repeatedly and asininely citing the examples of Thomas Jefferson and Strom Thurmond fathering half-black children as *proof* of the white man’s lust for the sistas, while I, along with several other posters, pointed out that these cases were very abnormal and came nowhere close to indicating a trend (and what I didn’t mention in that thread is that if you think about it, those men were married to women who were, by the time those men came to wealth and prominence, frigid old hags who probably had ginormous, dreadlocked bushes. even I, as someone who finds most black women very unattractive, might be tempted to bang the daylights out of the young, fertile, fit and healthy looking black girl who was running around the house).

    so, forgive my smug sense of self-sastisfaction as you prove my point in the most satisfactory way possible when you admit how you would instruct your white daughter to stay fit and thin because that’s what white men want. considering that most black women stay nowhere close to thin at any age, you have just proven my point as to why white men, in general, don’t care about the sistas. and this is to say nothing of the subject of facial features, which, to argue about now, would just be piling on.

    I suppose now you’ll claim that “thin” means what most white men would consider “too thick”, considering you’re on the record as saying that you think J-Lo and Beyonce are “kinda small”. trust me, they’re not.

    granted, you did say “*certain type*” of white men, so let me define that for you: the *certain type* of white men to which you were referring consists of all white men who are not Thomas Jefferson and Strom Thurmond (joking, but you get my point. the overwhelming majority of white men).

    whoever the poster was who said that 95% of a woman’s social status is derived from her looks was absolutely correct. thus, knowing how the sistas blow up more often than not, you should be able to see how that leaves them outside of the social hierarchy most white men would care to concern themselves with.

    check and mate.

    that said, I think your post is spot on as long as you change “*certain type*” to “overwhelming majority of”.

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  191. on February 19, 2009 at 2:09 am Bill

    forgot to mention that I wanted to give Obsidian a taste of his own logic, i.e. using cherry-picking to prove my points:

    Obsidian, in the movie “Napolean Dynamite”, a young, voluptuous black woman named Lafawnduh (who I still would not bang but is closer to the bangable spectrum than most sistas) dates and winds up marrying Napolean’s goof-dick cousin, Kip. I hereby cite this as proof of how black chicks pine for white men, particularly nerdy white geeks. no matter what you say or what evidence you present to the contrary, I am right because Kip bagged Lafawnduh. the fact that it was in a fictional movie is irrelevant. it happened.

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  192. on February 19, 2009 at 3:31 am Cannon's Canon

    Don’t be jealous that I’ve been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I’m training to be a cage fighter.

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  193. on February 19, 2009 at 3:39 am Tood

    “I would bet that the divorce rates among couples where the man stays at home is higher than it is among couples where the wife gets fat.”

    This is only because the divorce laws are overwhelmingly stacked against the man. If they were truly fair, the divorce rates would be equal.

    Usually, the man is left with the awful choice between having to force himself to have sex with his obese wife, or be sent to a life of destitution by the divorce industry.

    On the other hand, if you don’t marry, you are not stuck in either situation.

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  194. on February 19, 2009 at 3:50 am alphadominance

    Hungry Hungry Hippos

    Priceless

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  195. on February 19, 2009 at 4:21 am ian in hamburg

    Did anyone bother to hit that link someone dropped way up there?

    http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/articlemc.aspx?cp-documentid=8319151

    Almost word-for-word, only the roles and names changed.

    Fake.

    I hope the editors of whatever magazine you submitted this to catch it.

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  196. on February 19, 2009 at 4:22 am Eman

    Willard: “I don’t know why White men choose Asian brides.”

    It’s the petite-ness factor: even if they are non overweight many White women of Northern European (Nordic) ancestry can often be quite large physically – often around 5’6″-5’8″ (sometimes taller), big hips and asses, big thick long legs, fairly broad shouders, large bone structure, weighing around 150 lbs. or even more (which means they are actually very slender – to be 5’8″ and 150 lbs is very slender, even for a woman).

    But to many White men this natural, genetic largeness is a turnoff, and thus they seek the petiteness in a woman of a different ethnic/genetic background.

    When you add on the overweightness which so many White women in America and elsewhere suffer from nowadays, that makes many White women even bigger than they naturally are and thus less petite, and less sexually appealing.

    White women from Southern/Mediterranean Europe, are on average smaller than women from Northern Europe, and thus they are preferred by many White men too. But on average Asian women are smaller than all European women, and thus men who want to feel the need to appear big next to a small women crave them.

    It’s clear that men want to feel larger than the women they date/fuck/marry: they want to be taller especially, but also larger body and weight-wise. They want a women who is at least 1/4 smaller than them – and for so many White men who are confronted with all of these White women who are nearly as big and tall and heavy as they are, they crave smaller women.

    Like I said, this scenario applies more to Northern European (Nordic) type women – some Northern European women who are not Nordic but of more Celtic or Alpine descent can be quite petite because they have had much admixture with the smaller Mediterranean stock over past millennium. See a map of European ethnic populations at the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg

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  197. on February 19, 2009 at 4:41 am JerrDogg

    Kthulah,

    Both chicks on-the-side know my situation – I’m not lying, implying, or promising them anything – they accept this because they are doing the same thing to their hubbies and intend to remain married.

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  198. on February 19, 2009 at 5:21 am Kthulah

    JeerDogg, I suppose that’s about as ethical as one can be and still stay sane under the circumstances. It would be nice if everybody’s spouses understood, but well…that’s kind of like having religious fundamentalist parents.

    They don’t want to accept reality, and trap you in a situation where waking them up would destroy your family. So one has to look at it from a harm reduction standpoint rather than being idealistic.

    The reason I’m not going to become Cuz’s mistress isn’t because I respect his whore-wife. She broke trust with him when she tried to steal from their sons. It’s because I personally don’t want to be a kept woman, especially not secretly.

    I’m getting a bit old for idealism though. I might change my mind as my protection network becomes more solid here. Maybe I can buy her compliance.

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  199. on February 19, 2009 at 5:52 am RF Interference

    “4) Keep red meat to a minimum (1-2 times a month).”

    Lean red meat is fine and can be eaten more often than this.

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  200. on February 19, 2009 at 6:17 am expat

    Steve Sailer can get Google Ad, but if some Magazine makes a small reference to him in there blog, they will end up getting holy hell for it.

    I get your point. Some of the largest readerships go to mainstream publications that are highly self censored.

    I’m sure you also get my point. The NYT has a print edition, and an online edition, and if your article shows up only on the online edition, it’s still published.

    Media is moving online – that’s the progression we are seeing. It’s becoming, and I’d argue has already become, a fact that online publishing is publishing.

    And there are many non-mainstream publications – online and offline – that are small, yet still valid.

    There is no black and white dichotomy anymore, no clear demarcation, between published offline and published online.

    It’s merely a matter of numbers and reach.

    You can create your own demarcation between mainstream and alternative, but that’s just another arbitrary line. It seems that what matters is social influence, and that has been shown to pop up in hipster places more often than not. It starts small, and THEN gets co-opted by the mainstream. T-shirt styles sold at Dead concerts would show up next season in Target. Did Target start the fashion? No – it started from a few entrepreneurs roving around the country selling out of parking lots. This blog is one such parking lot.

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  201. on February 19, 2009 at 7:05 am gig

    Two points

    First, only a small amount of melanine is necessary to handle the tropical sun. I read somewhere that africans are much darker than what would be necessary to live well between the tropics and people blamed their darkness on sexual selection. I don’t see italians aging worst than danes, because italians’ melanin is just enough to handle the mediterranean, but it is correct that northern european people in the tropics age like 3 years for every year they live there.

    Second, red meat means something quite different depending on where you are. Cattle in England were fed with the rests of dead cattle, for example. it is barbaric and it is where the mad cow disease came from. When the land is to expensive, people feed their cattle with anything, from dead cattle to growth hormones (quite common in the US). When the land is cheap and vast – Brazil and Argentina – cattle are fed on grass without any hormones. So read meat is much healthier in such places

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  202. on February 19, 2009 at 10:13 am tokyojesusfist

    Willard Libby

    I don’t know why White men choose Asian brides.

    Because they’re pretty, feminine and youthful.

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  203. on February 19, 2009 at 10:26 am Obsidian

    I see my post to Willard as let loose the Fools on the Ship.

    So let’s begin, shall we?

    Hello Bill.

    First off, you commit a series of woeful logical errors; my point had absolutely nothing to do with the points you raised in your posts above. Moreover, if you’re going to cite a previous thread, then I think its only fair that I cite one in kind-the Black Men, White Women thread started by Roissy last month.

    In his opening post, Roissy himself takes up the issue you and several other White Men in this venue simply cannot accept. And that is this: one major reason why one does not see more Black Women/White Men pairings, is simply due to the fact that most White Men aint deemed “man enough” for a Sista.

    Period.

    Now-this is a venue where Evolutionary Psychology and Biology, and related disciplines, get a sympathetic ear. A kind component in said systems of knowledge is, that, in Nature, the Female chooses which Male will mount her. Players who study Game model thei tactics very closely to things such as these; indeed, for example, Peacock Theory is directly related to what I just noted.

    Now, Bill…I want you to focus, very, very carefully…

    ROISSY essentially agreed w/what I’m saying here. Mystery, agrees, and w/all due respect I do not think you can provide a better documented track record than either.

    If what you say is true, it would then fly in the face of what both Men have said, to say nothing of the whole of EP. Yes?

    Now let’s take on your canard about White Men not digging Black Women…

    I’ve asked you, repeatedly, a simple question:

    WHERE DID ALL THE LIGHTSKINNED BLACK PEOPLE COME FROM?

    And let’s keep in mind Bill-a Black Man could be and was kiled for even looking at a White Woman wrong, and this persisted into the second half of the 20th century (Emmit Till anyone?), there were no lightskinned Black folks on the slave ships, etc. Where’d they come from? Hm? You tell me.

    My point in mentioning Thurmond and Jefferson was simply noting that it is in the nature of a Male to fuck anything that’s fuckable. We all know this. Now, if you want to make the important distinction, like Roissy did, of choosing a wifey or a booty call, then yea, I would agree, most White guys would grab up Jennifer or Amy over Shaniqua or Rhonda. But therein lay the trick. Evolution doesn’t care all that much about pair bonding. Reproduction, is the name of the game. And when it comes to that, I can point you, and everyone else here, to legion examples of just how bad White fellas back in the day had some serious hots for Aunt Jemaimah.

    Unless you have a better theory? Hmm, Bill?

    Let’s shoot down another canard, and again, Roissy himself actually speaks to it:

    Most Black Men DO NOT wed or for that matter, even date, White Women. They invaraibly hookup w/their Sistas. That’s a fact, sir. If you actually knew Black people beyond a Napoleon Dynamite flick, you’d know that.

    But of the Black Men who DO hookup w/the Blancas, let me disabuse you of the silly notion that they chasin’ em down. I can personally tell you that quite a few White gals would most definitely like to go there, and more would if they could w/o you and Willard having a parakeet about it. I’m all for a Woman’s right to choose.

    What about you, Bill?

    Remember, Bill-a *redhead* said she thinks she’s in love w/the Obsidian-NOT Bill, or Willard.

    Hmm…

    And finally, let’s actualy deal with what I said, in *this* thread…

    I said that, on average, White Women do not age as well as other Women of Color. True or false?

    I said, that a certain type of White Male favors a thinner White Woman. We agree, however, you want to make the case that it means *all* White Men. Given that the current average dress size of the American Woman is about 14, I cannot agree w/your analysis(?). Clearly, there are millions of White Men who prove you, wrong. Which is getting easier to do, all the time, with you.

    Now, Bill, let me just say, as I said to Willard, that as a fellow American, I applaud and defend even, your right to your views and to give voice to them, no matter how imbecilic and distasteful I personally find them. But let’s be clear. They are wholly w/o merit and in any event irrelevant to this discussion. If you want to make a meaningful contribution to said discussion, you can start by actually addressing points I actually made in this thread.
    Capice?

    Carry on, son.

    The Obsidian

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  204. on February 19, 2009 at 10:39 am Bhetti B

    To me, the word ‘thin’ conjures up images of starving/emaciated/anorexic people who look ill in one way or another. I prefer to go for ‘healthy’ and don’t have positive associations with the word ‘thin’. A healthy body is borne out of a good amount of exercise and the correct nutrition to keep beautiful and clear skin and hair, fantastic energy levels and relatively elevated mood.

    Let’s put aside aesthetics and unconditional love. Being fat (mostly obese) comes with a lot of issues including decreased life expectancy, decreased overall health and increased risk of obstructive sleep apnea: I’m no expert but the case I have seen sleeping was so noisy that it went beyond snoring. You, unfortunately, CANNOT realistically sleep in the same bed with that noise unless you have amazing professional-grade earplugs or are practically deaf.

    I would think that love comes with wanting to please your partner as much as you can. Due to recent experience, they actually do need to be told what you want though. It apparently does not go without saying (very clearly and slowly, frequently stopping to check for understanding by making them reiterate, allowing for intelligence levels especially when under emotive stress).

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  205. on February 19, 2009 at 10:41 am jkc

    Anonymous (original grace), it was the downstairs bathroom, and i know what i saw.

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  206. on February 19, 2009 at 10:43 am Steve McJobs

    “I don’t know why White men choose Asian brides.”

    Because they are incapable of obtaining a quality white woman.

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  207. on February 19, 2009 at 10:46 am Bhetti B

    Oh, and here’s a word on what a partner might be willing to do for you: 30% of people say they’d quit smoking for their pets when only 3.2% try to quite because of family pressure:
    Source: 2nd paragraph ‘Pet’s Peeves’ http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/science-shots/

    Yeah, sure they love ya.

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  208. on February 19, 2009 at 10:54 am Obsidian

    Obviously, Willard has a hard time keeping his personal biases out of a conversation.

    And he likes to move the goalposts around too. Cute.

    Sailer has written extensively on the why’s and wherefores of IR dating and marriage, including our country’s largest cohort in that regard, White Men/Asian Women. I would kindly suggest to him to please review said work it is very easy to find.

    And, we can do a simple test, if you will:

    Robin Givens, and Angela Bassett. Both are very Black Women actresses. Now, let’s find two White Women actresses of similar name/reknown and age, and compare, shall we? Let’s keep our personal preferences out of it-let’s instead look for visiable signs of aging, you know, crow’s feet, etched wrinkle lines, etc. Five will get you ten Givens and Bassett edges out the competition on the White side.

    That’s all I’m sayin’.

    Now if you all will excuse me, I have to take a bath. Arguing with Bill and Willard leaves a Bruh dirty.

    The Obsidian

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  209. on February 19, 2009 at 10:57 am tokyojesusfist

    Steve McJobs

    Because they are incapable of obtaining a quality white woman.

    This may come as a shock to you, but Asian women are attractive too. And to some men, they’re way more attractive than white women.

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  210. on February 19, 2009 at 11:17 am curious

    ian in hamburg, what do you do when not solving mysteries?

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  211. on February 19, 2009 at 11:32 am Obsidian

    Jerr Dogg, Nicole,
    Very interesting discussion you two are having, and JD I applaud you for your earnest account of your own life in this regard.

    The topic is nothing new, and in fact is convered in many written sources such as The Qur’an and the Kama Sutra. In both, the Head Wife gets considerable, if not final say, as to whether a Man may take another Wife or lover. Although I don’t know for sure, from his comments, it appears that JD has read neither, and if that’s so I invite him to do so.

    Nicole makes a powerful point that cannot be easily swept under a rug. JD’s wife signed on for a different deal than what’s going on right now. In my personal view then, she deserves a chance to “renegotiate” the terms of said deal. She may not want to. Or, she might-as much ruckus is made of it, many Women know deep down that they may not be able, or may be willing, to service their hubbies’ sexual needs. It certainly is nothing new. Many, many couples down through the ages have had an “understanding”. Nicole has reported this within her own family, and I’ve known quite a few personally myself.

    One of the silliest notions I’ve ever heard of, is the idea that one person can be all things to another. It just doesn make sense. Nor does it make sense for reasonable adults not to be able to sit down and discuss these things in a calm, respectful and responsible manner, especially when small/young kids are involved.

    One of thee dumbest things I’ve ever seen was the whole John Edwards affair go down. Here we have a rich, good looking man, who is married to an aging, sickly Woman. While I don’t doubt his love for her, the reality is that he is still a Man with sexual needs. Why did they not discuss these things, back in 04 when Elizabeth was first diagnosed? She could have even helped him choose a Woman of proper mindset/character who would keep her mouth shut and be invisible, so as to not harm the kids, etc.

    JD expressed a degree of admiration for Bill Clinton. I’ll keep my personal views of the Man aside, but what I will take issue w/him was the way in which he went about meeting his needs. It was grossly disrespectful of his Wife and the Mother of his child-and if its one thing I’ve found to be of a huge, major concern for Women along these lines, its to NOT BE PUBLICLY DISRESPECTED. Clinton was indiscreet as he was indiscriminate, two major “don’t’s” if you’re a Player.

    The vast majority of Women know full well that if they partner with an ambitious Man chances are gonna be high that his sexual needs will be more than they may be able or willing to handle. And most Women will be able to look the other way so long as their Men act responsibly and discreetly.

    I think the one thing we all, Men and Women alike, have lost, is a respect for Discretion. Everything aint meant for public consumption, and yea, some pretty lies do serve a useful purpose. Only those who don’t have a dog in the fight-kids of their own, etc-will argue otherwise.

    I’ll hold here. Comment or reply, holla.

    The Obsidian

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  212. on February 19, 2009 at 11:35 am Meddling Kid

    “ian in hamburg, what do you do when not solving mysteries?”

    Probably just driving around in a fucking van.

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  213. on February 19, 2009 at 11:42 am Lugo

    ian in Hamburg is proof of the dictum that the world’s shortest book is “500 Years of German Humor”.

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  214. on February 19, 2009 at 11:49 am SeaFighter FSF-1

    “ian in hamburg, what do you do when not solving mysteries?”

    Haha.

    PS. G-Manifesto is retarded.

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  215. on February 19, 2009 at 11:56 am Kthulah

    Obsidian, when a wife is truly loving, these things can be handled without a big mess. When the wife is a whore however, things can get very dirty. She has to get paid in the deal somehow.

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  216. on February 19, 2009 at 12:19 pm anony

    @Obsidian,
    You argue elegantly for discretion. Were you married with children, would you be discrete when your wife seeks another partner? Your comments are wishfully self-serving of a man who someday wants to be married and still have outside partners. so, will you remain equally discrete when your wife would like an outside partner? You can not be all things for her, as you stated. You will remain discrete in deference to your children’s needs? You seem to agrue for an open marriage. Is that your solution to “no one can meet all needs” of another?

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  217. on February 19, 2009 at 12:23 pm Chuck

    “I would bet that the divorce rates among couples where the man stays at home is higher than it is among couples where the wife gets fat.”

    Of course it is b/c the man doesn’t gain anything from the divorce even if he’s jobless whereas the fat wife will. The incentive to divorce is much higher for a woman than a man.

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  218. on February 19, 2009 at 12:49 pm Angry Asian Man

    Roissy already did a post last year explaining why white women tended to chase Asian women, the most common interracial coupling in America. The problem is, that it has resulted in a surplus of Asian bachelors with no women at all (There are approximately 13% more married Asian women in the United States than there are Asian men). Angry Asian Bachelors.

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  219. on February 19, 2009 at 12:56 pm Chuck

    Obsidian:

    Be careful. Your rhetoric is starting to make you sound like the black Willard Libby.

    First off, you use slave masters’ banging of black female slaves as evidence that white men are attracted to black women, but then you point out that men in general will stick their dick in anything that moves. You’re ignoring the fact, the sad fact, that white men had more and easier options with their black slaves than with white women. Master on slave sex was the easiest to obtain. If you want to truly address this issue you’d have to experiment with a situation where white men had an ability to choose equally from a pool of white and black women who were equal in “easiness.” Therefore, bringing the Jefferson and Stromond argument into the mix does nothing to advance your point.

    “And that is this: one major reason why one does not see more Black Women/White Men pairings, is simply due to the fact that most White Men aint deemed “man enough” for a Sista. ”

    Perhaps somewhat true, but I sense a shift in sentiment. I’ve seen a growth in black women openly having the hots for “white boys”. I’ve experienced it in my personal life.
    In the 10 years or so that I’ve been paying attention to such things, I’ve noticed the “black fever” that some white women had has subsided as well. Again, these are just generalized perceptions in the changes of women’s tastes, but I do remember a period when it seemed like dating a black guy was the “in thing” for white women. It was almost like a novelty, they had to have a black guy. My sense is that this “novelty” has worn off some over the past 5 years. Perhaps its because interracial dating has lost its edginess.

    I’m still willing to admit that white women seem more attracted to black men than black women are to white men, but there is a natural tendency for these types of things to even out in magnitude. As the stronger taboos against black female/white male dating subside due to increased interaction at the workplace, etc it makes sense that these two measures will converge.

    I mean, if we’re going to throw around Hollywood figures in order to prove our points, look at none other than Halle Berry dating a white dude.

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  220. on February 19, 2009 at 1:08 pm JD

    @O and Nicole

    Points well taken. I’ll look up those books O. And I’m probably “rebounding” a little too far because I’ve been on an unfair sex diet for too damn long. Sometimes I feel deep regret at doing this. But then I realize I’m only capable of feeling regret because I finally just got my rocks off and the corrosive anger that comes with long term severe deprivation is temporarily relieved. It sounds crazy but I’m back in love with my wife because my balls are getting drained by like-minded skilled nymphos. I’m a husband again. I’m even fixing the sink that’s been leaking for the past 3 months.

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  221. on February 19, 2009 at 1:12 pm Obsidian

    Hi Grace,
    Thank you for the compliments. While no doubt married Women do have lovers on the side, I think it safe to say that more often than not its the other way around. Whether its right or wrong is little more than an academic discussion for me. I’m a bit more interested in what happens in the realworld and in realtime, for most people, most of the time. And in that case, its the hubbie who goes looking for a little something extra, rather than the wifey, although, again, I do acknowledge that it can happen the other way around.

    I do not advocate for open marriages or any other kind of arrangement; that is for th individuals involved to decide for themselves. What I do advocate for is that people be the adults they proffer themselves to be. While I disgaree w/Roissy on some points, on the broader ones concerning human nature, he is chillingly accurate. And it does no one any good at all to attempt to pretend that it does not or will not or cannot matter.

    As is often the case in these things, this is more than an academic discussion for me, Grace. I’ve known people who have died because they were not willing or able to sitdown w/their spouses and discuss these things with them. HIV/AIDS is no joke, especially when one spouse transmits it to another as a result of his extramarital affairs.

    As for children, I think we all would agree that they didn’t ask to be involved in such things, and that it isn’t asking much to at least pretend like we have their interests-and by that I mean, not having their familial dirty laundry-aired out for all the world to see. Being a kid in America is tough enough as it is. Why add to it by having everyone in your school and social circle know that your dad is aping Christie Brinkley’s old man?

    Roissy just posted up something about Spain, and he makes a powerful observation: that the Anglosphere has this serious hangup about sex that is now becoming a real problem that other areas of the world don’t have. Now, before anyone thinks I’m merely dumping on the Anglo West, I’m not-I am part and parce of said West, was born and will die here. But that doesn’t prevent me from seeing some of its real flaws, and when it comes to the realities of human nature, of which sex plays a huge part, the handwriting is on the wall.

    As for myself, I would like to think that I could keep a level head should something like what you described happen to me, especially if little ones were involved.

    We can all hope.

    The Obsidian

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  222. on February 19, 2009 at 1:12 pm JerDogg

    @angry asian man
    I wonder when white women will begin to appreciate Asian men the same. I know a fair # of couples that way and they are very happy. A lot of quality guys aren’t getting their fair share in the meat market.

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  223. on February 19, 2009 at 1:28 pm Benedict Smith

    Men fall in love with the woman they first met and desired AS SHE WAS.
    Women fall in love with the man who they can MOLD INTO WHAT THEY THINK THEY DESIRE (then resent him when/if he kneels down in subservience).

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  224. on February 19, 2009 at 1:36 pm Angry Asian Man

    @Jerdogg

    When the propaganda organs of society are wrested away from the clutches of feminists and gays, i.e. never. The marriage disparity is the result of two factors, the greater propensity towards beta-tude by Asian men and it’s mirror, the greater propensity of Asian women towards status climbing by marrying white. A lot of Asian men are angry towards Asian women for this reason, an anger which is only further fueled when asian women turn the tables and point out their beta-ness both real and imagined. It doesn’t help that the socio-economic status of asian women and the manner of their upbringing places them squarely in the SWPL category and thus easily influenced by feminist indoctrination. However, the problem is really not as bad as it appears. Only 7% or so of Asian women actively shun other Asian men and if they chose to marry asian instead of white, the marriage imbalance would dissappear entirely. Among U.S. raised Chinese Americans, the disparity is only 6% and among Japanese Americans it’s only 1.5% and the differential between male and female exogenous marriage both in relative and absolute values is lesser than the general population. There really is no f*cking hope for the Korean man though.

    The problem is that for Asian men to attract white women, they need to not just be above average in mating parameters, but to be outrageously so. Case in point, the mother of all WGWAG’s

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/fashion/weddings/22glover.html

    Note the double magna’s from Harvard and the Supreme Court Clerkship and the DC Boutique litigation firm ($$$$$$$).

    Merely average Asian men are severely penalized and sub-average Asian men may as well just castrate themselves.

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  225. on February 19, 2009 at 1:45 pm Seeking Alpha

    My mom’s cousin (white Irish/Scottish) married an Asian guy. Boston is a great town for this. The kids are really cute.

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  226. on February 19, 2009 at 1:46 pm Obsidian

    Chuck,
    W/all due respect, I don’t think you can find five regular contributors to this venue, and possibly even Roissy himself, who would agree w/the notion that I am in any way comparable to Willard Libby. A quick perusal of our respective postings here would bear this out.

    Again, we keep sidestepping my basic, basic, basic question; perhaps you can answer it, Chuck:

    WHERE’D ALL THE LIGHTSKINNED BLACK PEOPLE COME FROM?

    They’ve been here since this country’s inception. They were not on the slave ships. Black Men, in particularly, were prevented from having sexual access to White Women, under the threat of death, until very recently in American history. And Black Women could not refuse a White Man’s sexual advances.
    So…where’d the Redbones come from, Chuck? Hmm? How’d that happen?

    Let me make another very important point here.

    Willard and Bill strike me as the kinds of White Men who would condemn their White Sisters for hooking up with a Brotha. I, on the other hand, respect my Sista’s right to determine for herself, on whatever criteria she chooses, who she will mate with. Period. In my eyes I see a Man and Woman coming together, the end. They don’t. Hence, another reason why I take issue with your assertion in comparison w/me to Willard. It is without reason or basis.

    I realize that this is a very difficult time to live in America for many of my White brothers. Much of what they have taken for granted has now been shaken to its very foundations, and fear is a powerful motivator. For what it’s worth, I do not wish my White Brothers any ill will, for I understand that in the end we have a lot more in common than they may be willing to admit. And like so many before me, I gots to love em in spite of themselves.

    The Obsidian

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  227. on February 19, 2009 at 1:46 pm MarkD

    Willard: “I don’t know why White men choose Asian brides.”

    Because I was in Asia? I’m kidding – #209 summarized it. No regrets, no second thoughts, I’d do it over again in a second, and I feel sorry for the rest of you having to put up with lesser quality women who weren’t socialized from birth to treat men right.

    On the minus side, would be what, maybe bigger breasts? Till they sag, anyway. I’m not seeing a downside to my choice, and it was made long ago. It’s worked so far, and there’s more of life behind me than ahead.

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  228. on February 19, 2009 at 1:57 pm MarkD

    AAM, I’m confused about this: “There really is no f*cking hope for the Korean man though.” I thought that Koreans (I’m not referring to Korean-Americans) were much more hostile toward racial intermixing than other Asian cultures.

    Do you mean a Krean-American man would face social and family pressure if he were to marry outside the group? Or is there something I’m missing? The last stats I saw said there was something like five times as many Koreans as Japanese living in the US, so I’d think the choices might be better.

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  229. on February 19, 2009 at 2:04 pm PA

    Willard and Bill strike me as the kinds of White Men who would condemn their White Sisters for hooking up with a Brotha

    Obsidian, I think that as a black guy you take the antimicsengation taboos of non-black people much too lightly. To you perhaps such an attitude is a sign of narrowmindedness or insecurity, but to others these attitudes come from the deepest parts of their human nature.

    One thing that differentiates black males form males of all other races, it seems to me, is a hypercharged desire to mate with females not of one’s race. That being so, you might find it challenging to relate to guys who have a more conservative outlook with regards to I.R.

    And in my observation, it is not young single white guys who are most opposed to their women hooking up with black guys. Most don’t really care. It’s non-black fathers with respect to their own daughters. I wrote what I thought was a fair and thoughtful comment on why I think that’s so. If you like, I can try to find it in the comments archives later on when I have more time.

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  230. on February 19, 2009 at 2:04 pm Michael Blowhard

    I don’t get the opposition to Obsidian’s main point about aging in black and white people. Haven’t y’all heard the saying “Black don’t crack”? Black skin simply has a lot more resilience than white skin does, especially Nordic-style white skin. Widely noted by many sources.

    I say this as someone with a lot of Nordic in the family and who’s married to a thin-skinned blonde woman, by the way. (My wife refers to herself as a “tissue-paper blonde.”) No reason to be defensive about it, it’s just one of life’s little facts. Get used to it.

    Now, do black women tend to get fat? They sure do in the U.S., where they’re the fattest of all demographics. Why? Poverty? A more general junk-food culture? Genetics? Beats me. Does anyone know?

    Are there black guys who are attracted to white women? Sure. Are there white guys who are attracted to black women? You betcha. When you compare percentages, is it possible that a higher percentage of black guys are attracted to white women than white men attracted to black women? Could well be.

    BUT WHY WOULD THIS BE THE CASE? (Sorry for screaming …) Might have to do with all kinds of factors, no?

    Historical: in the U.S. class and beauty have tended to get defined in white terms. That can’t help but affect people’s fantasy lives.

    Genetics: Over at GNXP the boyz have cited studies that there may be an in-born tendency for women to favor darker guys and men to favor lighter women. Of course: how strong is this tendency, if it does exist, and does affect everyone the same are good questions.

    One of my own hunches is that many white guys are scared of black women. Black women can be strong and powerful, and so far as sex and sexual expression goes they certainly don’t tend in a Euro-coy kind of direction. They often tend instead to be athletic, out-there, and uninhibited. It’s quite possible to see this as hot, wild, and exciting — as reason to pursue and explore. But it’s also possible to find it scary and off-putting, especially if you come from a background where women aren’t supposed to act like that.

    Given all this, it’s also possible for a white guy to find black women hot and overwhelming — a major turn-on and too-much at the same time. Mick Jagger — who has probably had more women than the bunch of us commenters put together — was famous for having a taste for black women. Great line from his song “Some Girls”: “Black girls just wanna get fucked all night/I don’t have that much jam.” Which is 1) a tribute to the sexual vitality of black gals, 2) an admission that he’s done some active pursuing of sex with black gals, and 3) a joke at his own expense.

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  231. on February 19, 2009 at 2:31 pm Angry Asian Man

    @MarkD

    You are mixing cause and effect. Ethnic Koreans are most blood and folk racialists you will find today short of finding some miraculous time machine to take you back to the Third Reich. However, I believe this to be so because their women folk are the most exogamous of any other Asian ethnicity by a wide margins. The meme that Asian men do not choose to marry white women because of cultural taboos enforced by parents is an ABSOLUTE LIE foisted by feminists and their enablers, to simultaneously emasculate Asian men and denigrate Asian cultures. Men are willing to marry any kind of woman as long as she is beautiful. Women are ultimately the selectors in the marriage market, not men.

    http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Of Korean women raised in the U.S., only 22% marry ethnic Korean men and a whopping 60.8% marry white men. If you look at the absolute figures of married, you will come to the stunning realization that there are more Korean American women married to white men than there are Korean American men that are married at all. Simply put, the Korean American population is not self-sustaining and will be virtually extinct within two generations sans further immigration. It will not be the passive assimilation championed by multi-cultists either, but rather the systemic annihilation of the mating potential of a significant fraction of Korean American men.

    Even worse is that the anecdotal evidence is worse than the statistical figures. If you peruse the Above the Law blog’s Legal Eagle Wedding Watch section and keep an eye out on Asian marriages you will find an obvious pattern. Going back to 2008, there have been six weddings involving Korean women, five of whom whose husbands happened to be white.

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  232. on February 19, 2009 at 2:50 pm Obsidian

    Angry Asian Male,
    Thanks for the data points and comments overall. And it is documented that Koreans do not think highly of African Americans, according to a BBC World Radio report I heard last year. It is my understanding that considerable discrimination has been visited on the children of Black GI/Korean Women couples, who still reside in South Korea. Perhaps you might know of this?

    And thanks for validating my central point to several of my “opponents”; that, in Nature, the Female, barring out and out rape, always chooses.

    If you don’t mind my asking-could you please relate a bit of your personal experience and observation on the dating market as an Asian Male? And, are you familiar w/Game, and if so, what do you make of it? Do you feel that it can be helpful to you and/or your fellow Asian Male colleagues? Lastly, if I may, what particular *kind* of Asian are you? And does that make a difference along these lines? In other words, is it a bit easier for a Chinese man versus say, a Vietnamese one, on the dating market?

    Thanks for your responses, always good to talk w/people from differing backgrounds.

    The Obsidian

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  233. on February 19, 2009 at 2:53 pm Chuck

    Obsidian:

    The Willard Libby comparison was apparently a bad joke.

    Anyway,
    I think you overlooked the part in my comments where I acknowledged that light-skinned blacks come from the fact that white slave owners had the power to have sex with black females. There’s no denying that.

    Your argument, in response to the bile spewed by Willard and Bill, is to essentially make the case that white men are attracted to black women as vice versa. You seem bent on inflating the spread between white men’s attraction to black women over black women’s attraction to men. Why is this? Why can’t we agree that neither side appears to be very attracted to the other? Now, as I pointed out above, this tide seems to be shifting ever so slightly, but you seem to want to say that white men ARE digging “Aunt Jamima” as shown through knocking them up during slave times while saying that black women don’t find white men “man enough.”

    Perhaps the second part may be somewhat true. You didn’t address my earlier point that what you are mistaking for “having the hots for Aunt Jamima” is merely just men being willing to have sex with just about anything. Your argument collapses upon itself.

    This all being said, I do respect your comments. I didn’t mean to lump you in with Willard and Bill.

    To get to a point that Willard tried to make and Michael Blowhard posed; black women age slower, skin and body wise, compared to white women, but their socioeconomic level leads to other “preventable” diseases that cause the shorter life expectancy.

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  234. on February 19, 2009 at 2:56 pm roissy

    And thanks for validating my central point to several of my “opponents”; that, in Nature, the Female, barring out and out rape, always chooses.

    this is not entirely true. while women are in general choosier than men, choosiness is not limited to women. men also choose their partners, particularly their long term partners, based on a number of factors, the most pertinent of which is the woman’s beauty. if it were not so, men would be fucking and dating and marrying women at random, but we can see this is not so; that in fact, as a man’s options increase, so does his choosiness. the most desirable men are very picky indeed about whom to marry. all men are choosy to a degree; i have on more than one occasion turned down advances from fat chicks and plain-looking chicks.

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  235. on February 19, 2009 at 3:24 pm Obsidian

    Roissy, Chuck,
    We are all in agreement wrt long term alignments, yes, Men can be and should be much more pickier, rightly so.
    But that isn’t my argument when it comes to America’s racial-sexual history. And in evolutionary terms, the long term deal doesn’t really matter either. The goal is simply to mate, w/as many females as you can-willing females if possible, unwilling females if push comes to shove.

    The End.

    On that score then, the evidence is clear: White Men, historically speaking, have somehow found a way to suspend their supposed aversion for Black Women long enough, to grab em up by the ample hips, move them into position, and deposit enough DNA to where we now have millions of very fairskinned Black folks.

    Period.

    And that’s my point.

    The only issue here then, is whether the ladies in question went along of their own free will, or at the point of a gun, or a lash, or a rope.

    For most of recorded American history, the answer is clear. Sistas couldn’t say no.

    I should also like to note that, it occurs to me that certain kinds of White Men tend to be much more sensitive, rightly or wrongly, about what others will think of their mate selection choices than are Black Men, in the main. For my own part, I’ve never cared one whit what others, who aint givng me nothing anyway, think of who I choose to spend my time with on my dime.

    Hmm.

    The Obsidian

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  236. on February 19, 2009 at 3:33 pm Angry Asian Man

    @Obsidion

    As Roissy mentioned, the women doesn’t always choose, but in the law of averages the woman usually does choose. Roissy is the exception of course, a veritable colossus among the legions of betas.

    In regards to your other questions, I grew up in an area that was predominantly non Asian area with only two other Asian females as viable dating potential. One was, even as early as middle school, easily pegged as a cock gobbling slut who was into white guys (which summarily proved to be true as I later heard from friends who went to the same college as she did). I didn’t like her and she sure as hell didn’t like me. The other girl was a very feminine girl whom I had a juvenile crush on that was never reciprocated because she was a shy demure type with strict parental input in regards to dating (ladies take notes, marriage material there). This resulted in most of my clumsy amorous advances being directed towards white women, which floundered due to my shyness and I ended up the “funny friend” and study partner. College didn’t improve my disposition much and my only regular girlfriend (white) of several semesters I met at a campus church outfit. Yes that I was that hard up I was hitting the outwardly Christian girls. Unfortunately for me, I didn’t learn game as it is until after school. I am Chinese btw and just now entering my mid 20’s. Game as I understand it really has only two fundamental principals. Steel your heart in the face of rejection and fear it not. The journey towards pussy begins with the first step, that is actively approaching women and soliciting them. The second principal is a slight rephrasing of the golden rule, to treat women as they treat you and not as how you would wish they treat you. In other words, don’t be a door mat.

    As for whether one asian man has an easier chance than another asian man, statistically speaking there isn’t really any difference nor one I have really observed. It’s more a material of individual initiative and the j.crew frat boy asians were scoring much more than the world of warcraft obsessed geeks that sadly engulfs the community. Really it’s a matter of the less fob’ish the better.

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  237. on February 19, 2009 at 3:38 pm Usually Lurking

    To me, the word ‘thin’ conjures up images of starving/emaciated/anorexic people who look ill in one way or another. I prefer to go for ‘healthy’

    It is possible to associate “skinny” with starving anorexics, but never “thin”. Thin can only have a bad association if you are a true believer in our new religion of Political Correctness.

    And healthy has almost nothing to do with being thin. Finding a thin smoker and a slightly overweight (i.e. “ah, she could lose 5 pounds…she would look so much better”) but very healthy person is very easy.

    Many, many people who follow thousand year old traditional diets that afford them good health have a nice bit of chunk on them.

    Thin = Attractive. But not necessarily healthy.
    Healthy = Healthy. But not necessarily thin.

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  238. on February 19, 2009 at 3:41 pm alphadominance

    Obsidian
    If you don’t mind my asking-could you please relate a bit of your personal experience and observation on the dating market as an Asian Male? And, are you familiar w/Game, and if so, what do you make of it? Do you feel that it can be helpful to you and/or your fellow Asian Male colleagues? Lastly, if I may, what particular *kind* of Asian are you? And does that make a difference along these lines? In other words, is it a bit easier for a Chinese man versus say, a Vietnamese one, on the dating market?

    Thanks for your responses, always good to talk w/people from differing backgrounds.

    I am a Caucasian male living in Seattle. I can only gather that these anti-miscegination perspectives I keep hearing here must be a product of the legacy of slavery over in the East and South. These stereotypes are far from my experience here on the West Coast. Interracial couples are so commonplace that I don’t even notice them. While there may be a slightly larger Black man/ White woman contingent than the Black woman/ White man, it’s not a huge difference. I would also distinguish between African American vs. African immigrant as the latter is far less likely to date White woman from what I see. This is why I think that more than anything, the appeal of African American men is largely cultural. Generally Black culture has been co-opted by the broader culture in America going back for at least a hundred years. African American men often have more bad-boy appeal as well, often of necessity if they have lower socioeconomic roots. Otherwise we should see equal representation in interracial relationships on a percentage basis for African immigrants as well, yet I just don’t see it.

    On to the Asian question. Maybe it’s also due to a larger Asian population, but the bulk of the Asian American population in Seattle have, if anything, more game than the twitching hipster SWPLs. Here I am referring to those born and raised here, typically to immigrant parents. Whites and Asians typically hold the highest and equivalent socioeconomic status to judge by distribution in neighborhoods and occupations. I think culture may have a bit of influence on this, I’ve seen more game coming from Southeast Asian heritage men than Northern, but this isn’t a hard and fast rule and generally if born here they integrate well. I’d say here particularly, due to the liberal bent and Weezer-esque fashion sense of the local White population, Whites probably have the least game overall by and large. You would have a heyday here. Maybe the averages differ on the East Coast, but mixed White/Asian relationships in both directions are very frequent, and not indicative of beta or alpha status. This attitude that Asians and the Whites who date them are intrinsically beta is clearly a product of someone who’s only real experience is with Asian immigrants. Yes, the exchange students from China come off as woefully wussy, but that’s a product of their culture, not their race. Men who desire Asian women for their supposed submission, the classic ‘yellow fever’ cases, are mostly beta men, who have no real experience with Asian women. It’s a fantasy. Most Asian American women are surprisingly fiery and demanding, almost on par with Hispanics women, far from demure. At least here on the West Coast. For anyone who doubts this, take a look at the Import Tuner scene.

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  239. on February 19, 2009 at 3:59 pm Angry Asian Man

    @alphadominance

    The import tuner scene is hardly representative of Asian culture. Then again, I can’t say I am either. I’m an east coaster and most (actually just about all) of my immediate circle of Asian relations are the (immigrant 1 1/2 generation) descendants of a previous wave of immigrant student parents who arrived in the U.S. in the 80’s. You literally cannot throw a shoe in a roomful of our parents without hitting multiple PhDs. As far as I am concerned, the import tuner scene Asians are lumpen-prolitariet thugs that may as well be from another planet. Fortunately I was blessed with the physical advantage of being 6’0″ 180lbs and am able to overcome the general handicap of being Asian by being larger than the average American white.

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  240. on February 19, 2009 at 4:56 pm Obsidian

    AlphaDom,
    Thanks so much for the Seattle background. I’ve heard much about it but have yet to venture there myself. Too much East coast in my blood I guess. But the liberal bent of Seattle/Portland/etc out there in the Pacific Northwest is the stuff of legend.

    I don’t doubt any of what you say, and it could very well be that regional differences play a strong role. Asians have long played a role in the history of the West out there, so that have something to do with it.

    And the class concerns within Asian society is something iv seen firsthand. It plays a role wrt the IR issue as well. Like it or not, being a White guy still means something in early 21st century America. If anyone knows this, Asian Women do.

    As for African immigrants, interesting observations, and I agree, that appears to be more a cultural thing. Its my understanding that som years back a horrific killing of an Ethopian Man took place along hate crime lines. Are you familiar with this? I understand it was quite a shock for the Seattle community(if memory serves wrt the locale; or was it Portland?) because of the aformentioned long history of liberal leaning social atmosphere.

    AAM, yes, at 6’/180lbs you are somewhat rare for an Asian Male indeed, especially here in the East. Should be a huge selling point for you in the dating market.

    Finally: can anyone out there please explain what is a “Weezer-esque” style of dress/demeanor?

    Thanks.

    O

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  241. on February 19, 2009 at 5:45 pm MarkD

    AAM, Thank you. I didn’t know that. My wife grew up in Japan, so my knowledge of Asian Americans (I despise the term, but I’m trying to be descriptive) is just about nil. There were none in my High School, for example. Even now, I don’t know any, unless you count my kids, who the Japanese quaintly but accurately call half…

    I just knew that Koreans in Korea showed more animosity toward mixed race children than the Japanese did (where the public sentiment seemed to be more like pity.) I assumed that was out of resentment toward foreigners, which I assumed would translate into pressure from the family What I know is probably outdated by now anyway.

    Except for the fact that Korean women just might be the best looking in all of Asia. I don’t think that’s changed.

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  242. on February 19, 2009 at 5:59 pm lf

    “Simply put, the Korean American population is not self-sustaining and will be virtually extinct within two generations sans further immigration.”

    I’ve never understood this weird diasporic angst, which is found in particularly hysterical form among Asian-Americans. Who cares if you go extinct in the US provided that the future supply of correctly formatted little Asian kids is assured for the forseeable future back in Korea? The same goes for pretty much every other group in the US who likes to wring their hands over such matters (Jews included). Such questions only become worrisome when the source country is itself simultaneously miscenating itself out of existence. Europe, anyone?

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  243. on February 19, 2009 at 6:05 pm alphadominance

    AAM
    The import tuner scene is hardly representative of Asian culture.
    I didn’t mean to suggest that all Asians are represented here, or that it is indicative of your cultural heritage, merely that not all Asians fit the geeky sweater-vest stereotype, as indeed you do not. Certainly Asian culture, particularly first gen emphasizes academic and career achievement. I think this is the reason for their parity socioeconomically (at least here) with Caucasians. I also suspect that the tuner culture is bigger out here, just like most Cali culture. Though it’s being subsumed by young boy george looking, 80’s styled hipsters, in tight pants, the style for anyone with a modicum of street cred was nominally thuggish. Baggy pants and all that jazz. Still is for many of all ethnicities here.

    Obsidian
    Like the present hipster culture, the Weezer look brings out my aggressive tendencies. Quintessential beta lackeys that are asking to get pushed around.

    Picture these fucks in a pastel New style VW beetle and you have an idea of what I mean by “Weezer-esque.”

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  244. on February 19, 2009 at 6:27 pm alphadominance

    I’ve never understood this weird diasporic angst

    I totally agree. We live in a melting pot. It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if a hundred years from now we’re all a uniform shade of brown. I thought we came here to get away from all the ethnic and religious strife. It is so prejudiced to think that you have to make some effort to maintain the “purity” of your race. Eerily reminiscent of the Third Reich propaganda. Lets dispose of these outdated notions that one race is inherently better than another, we’re damn near genetically identical to our simian cousins, the genetic variance between humans is vanishingly small.

    Speaking of which, I think I found the incident you were referring to Obsidian. If so, it’s Portland you were thinking of. Tragic…
    http://www.amazon.ca/Hundred-Little-Hitlers-Immigrant-Racist/dp/0805050981

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  245. on February 19, 2009 at 6:27 pm Willard Libby

    Obsidian – Obviously, Willard has a hard time keeping his personal biases out of a conversation.

    And he likes to move the goalposts around too. Cute.

    You seemed to have trouble keeping your wounded black male ego out of the way. What I said in response to your comments remains true. You haven’t refuted it.

    And let’s keep in mind Bill-a Black Man could be and was kiled for even looking at a White Woman wrong, and this persisted into the second half of the 20th century (Emmit Till anyone?)

    (Willie Horton/OJ Simpson, et al anyone?) That is a cute fantasy you have but black men being killed for “looking at White women” has very little historical support. On the other hand plenty of black males get killed by other “brothers” for doing this far more often. (See Len Bias’ brother.)

    Remember, Bill-a *redhead* said she thinks she’s in love w/the Obsidian-NOT Bill, or Willard.

    Hmm…

    We all know about your desperate need for White women’s acceptance. We know that as a black boy in America you need White momma to prefer you over The White Man. Let’s just hope this internet *redhead* doesn’t look like David Caruso or Conan.

    Now let’s take on your canard about White Men not digging Black Women…

    I’ve asked you, repeatedly, a simple question:

    WHERE DID ALL THE LIGHTSKINNED BLACK PEOPLE COME FROM?

    Black women wanting to be inseminated by White men in order to have lighter, prettier and smarter babies and as a result of black females looking to White men for sexual protection from black males

    Obsidian – For most of recorded American history, the answer is clear. Sistas couldn’t say no…

    .. to BLACK males.

    During slavery and afterward the vast majority of males sexually forcing themselves on black females have been black males. Today it’s close to 100%.

    This fantasy of the all powerful White slave master rapist is nothing but the fear driven hysterics of historically ignorant black males and modern feminists.

    During slavery black women mostly feared black male slaves which is probably why many of them went after White men for protection.

    And that’s where a lot of light skinned blacks came from.

    Chuck – Obsidian:

    Be careful. Your rhetoric is starting to make you sound like the black Willard Libby.

    We are in no way a like. He is a black male with a deeply rooted psychic obsession with White women that has it’s origins in both 400 years of black male punkification and his own Oedipal issues projected onto White men and women.

    He’s on this board to help himself reinforce those personal issues.

    I on the other hand have no interest in black females and I’m here to get varying perspectives on the sociobiology of human sexuality.

    That does sound like the joke about the guy reading Playboy for the articles doesn’t it. I’m sure as hell not here for the pictures. Yeah I’m talking about you Kthulah.

    Michael Blowhard -I don’t get the opposition to Obsidian’s main point about aging in black and white people. Haven’t y’all heard the saying “Black don’t crack”?

    Michael the issue is for one that aging involves more than just wrinkling skin. Black women do NOT age better than White women on average. That’s basic biology, all over the world. I’m talking about overall health, everthing. Black women tend to fall apart and suffer many serious issues as a result of aging, many of which are genetic and go well beyond issues of crow’s feet and saggy skin.

    I’m no feminist but you guys aren’t dealing with the total woman’s health. Aging aint just about wrinkles.

    My other point was that women who start out ugly do not appear to be aging as badly as women who start out pretty. And in my view most black females start off looking like shit so they don’t have far to fall as a result of aging.

    One of my own hunches is that many white guys are scared of black women.

    Michael, you are trying WAY too hard. White guys are not into black females because they find them to be (1) physically, especially facially, unattractive. (2) Socially of lower status, less of a prize for racial reasons. (3) they don’t want black/mixed kids.

    On the other hand White women are a huge social and genetic prize for black males.

    As to fear, come on, you know men are MORE afraid of the hottest women than the ugly ones or the average ones. You average White guy is less afraid of approaching or talking to a black female than an attractive White one. In part because he doesn’t fear rejection because he isn’t looking for acceptance.

    Why is it so difficult for people to admit that White men tend not to be attracted to black women at all and that this is due to black women’s ugliness and/or lower racial status? This is pretty easy to figure out.

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  246. on February 19, 2009 at 6:36 pm lf

    “I totally agree. We live in a melting pot. It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if a hundred years from now we’re all a uniform shade of brown.”

    er, that wasn’t my point, no… i just meant to observe that it’s one of the nasty asymmetries of racial politics in the USA that almost all minority groups in the country have a cultural and racial homeland to fall back but, with the advent of mass third world immigration to Europe, whites do not. whites are being displaced everywhere, koreans are only being displaced in the usa.

    whether one should worry about this is another question. but, if i were an asian-american, i don’t think i’d take it so much to heart.

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  247. on February 19, 2009 at 6:38 pm roissy

    alphadom:
    I’ve never understood this weird diasporic angst

    group cohesion.

    I totally agree. We live in a melting pot.

    the amalgam can change depending on the quantity and quality of ingredients mixed in.

    It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if a hundred years from now we’re all a uniform shade of brown.

    so you’re against diversity?

    I thought we came here to get away from all the ethnic and religious strife.

    the frontline is everywhere.

    It is so prejudiced to think that you have to make some effort to maintain the “purity” of your race.

    what about just wanting to maintain a prosperous nation?

    Eerily reminiscent of the Third Reich propaganda.

    godwin spit up his coffee.

    Lets dispose of these outdated notions that one race is inherently better than another, we’re damn near genetically identical to our simian cousins, the genetic variance between humans is vanishingly small.

    lysenko laughed his ass off.

    Speaking of which, I think I found the incident you were referring to Obsidian. If so, it’s Portland you were thinking of. Tragic…

    you should take a look at FBI crime statistics sometime.

    keepin’ it real.

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  248. on February 19, 2009 at 6:40 pm alphadominance

    Perhaps but many Europeans are highly ethnically segregated even when immigration has been allowed. Look at the issue in France with North Africans being shunned from employment and decent accommodations and all the strife it is causing. I don’t see them ethnically homogenizing in the near future. It’s really quite odd given their purportedly liberal everyman posture.

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  249. on February 19, 2009 at 6:52 pm lf

    yes, yes, there is a lot of segregation in france, it’s true. there’s also a lot of miscegenation, particularly with the large and growing black african population — on most accounts now more numerous than their north african predecessors.

    back to the issue of segregation… france is much less segregated than the USA: to name just two reasons for this, almost everyone goes to public school in france and the state decided back in the eighties that it would be a good idea to require all towns and cities to build housing projects. unlike in the USA, no way of escaping “difference” in france.

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  250. on February 19, 2009 at 6:54 pm barbara johnson

    Sincerely compliment them. Fake statements and over-the-top gushing will not only fail in helping your partner’s sexiness but tend to backfire and insult them. Focus on the things about them that you love and that are still ongoing. Don’t focus on the past; that will make them feel compared.

    Avoid conflicting images and media. If your wife feels less than sexy, having magazines with fantasy women all over it will further her woes. Same goes for men. Keep the men’s magazines, pornography or romance novels out of your partner’s face to give them some ease.

    Start the sexiness in advance. If you need them to find the old inner spark, start stoking the flames days ahead. Sexy notes in their lunch bag, kisses without leading to sex and other little jump starts over a time period can start them to warming up.

    Be sexy yourself. Nothing helps a bad situation in a relationship if both parties are struggling the same struggle. Keep your energy up, keep healthy and work on staying in shape. Don’t let yourself go but keep yourself looking and feeling good. Your partner will start to see your positive attitude as an anchor and a place to start

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  251. on February 19, 2009 at 7:01 pm Chuck

    Willard

    “We are in no way a like. He is a black male with a deeply rooted psychic obsession with White women”

    Good point. You aren’t obsessed with white women at all. You’re apparently obsessed with Obsidian.

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  252. on February 19, 2009 at 7:02 pm alphadominance

    Expand the ingroup, it’s the American Way.

    Let the amalgam become what it may of it’s own accord. The more homogeneous the less discord.

    Diversity is fine, those who elevate one group above another are the ones against it.

    Only a battle needs a frontline.

    Our prosperity arises from an admixture of many influences and ideas. Innovation occurs when boundaries are crossed.

    Yeah yeah, Godwin’s Law. Nonetheless the analogy applies here, striving to maintain racial purity is best illustrated by comparison to Hitler.

    Lysenko has been discredited. Cultural traits are taught, genetic ones inherited. Never the twain shall meet. Come to a new culture and you shall eventually be assimilated.

    Crime stats don’t illustrate innate differences unless all other variables are held constant. I wouldn’t say we can make this claim.

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  253. on February 19, 2009 at 7:04 pm lf

    that’s quite an impressive list of cliches!

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  254. on February 19, 2009 at 7:12 pm Angry Asian Man

    For the Angry Asian Men out there, the problem has never been about maintaining purity of race or cultural ties, but rather than the “melting pot” theory only seems to apply to Asian women and there is a significant degree of latent discrimination against Asian men. Quite unlike Jews I might add, I remember once reading a Jewish newspaper at a local Chinese takeout place (natch) where a Rabbi in an editorial was comparing Jewish outmarriage and secularization to being worse than the Holocaust. The problem is, is that a not insignificant minority of Asian American Men are being culled from the future gene pool. Now the ruthless darwinist in me would say that this is simply a demonstration of survival of the fittest, but the issue is that many of these men are by conservative definitions amply fit to pass on their genes to future generations yet are unable to due to self-destructive programming that modern American women are imprinted with. Instead leaving the future to the likes of the unbalanced mother with the 14 kids. I don’t have the power to teach a million desperate horny asian american males game, but it doesn’t hurt to raise awareness of the issue and wield my righteous indignation like a cudgel to beat those 7% of asian women who have been so warped by feminism/mass media to discriminate and emasculate their own co-ethnics into submission. The concept of Shame is a powerful motivator that many white Americans seem to forgotten.

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  255. on February 19, 2009 at 7:19 pm roissy

    Expand the ingroup, it’s the American Way.

    are you saying it wasn’t the American Way when the country was 90% european derived?

    Let the amalgam become what it may of it’s own accord.

    let the german invasions become what it may of its own accord.

    The more homogeneous the less discord.

    do we have more, or less, homogeneity in america today?

    Diversity is fine, those who elevate one group above another are the ones against it.

    what if some groups/cultures are naturally more elevated than other groups/cultures?

    Only a battle needs a frontline.

    the battle is all around you.

    Our prosperity arises from an admixture of many influences and ideas.

    some influences and ideas are better than others.

    Innovation occurs when boundaries are crossed.

    or war.

    Nonetheless the analogy applies here, striving to maintain racial purity is best illustrated by comparison to Hitler.

    hitler was operating from limited information. our knowledge base today is much larger.

    Cultural traits are taught, genetic ones inherited. Never the twain shall meet.

    actually, cultural changes can give rise to genetic changes.
    see: the 10,000 year explosion.

    Come to a new culture and you shall eventually be assimilated.

    what if i bring 10 million of my friends?
    who will be doing the assimilating then?

    Crime stats don’t illustrate innate differences unless all other variables are held constant.

    they are.

    I wouldn’t say we can make this claim.

    there’s a reason millions of good SWPL liberal white parents abscond to lily white hoods with their precious bundles of joy, despite their platitudinal sanctimony to the contrary.

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  256. on February 19, 2009 at 7:19 pm Obsidian

    Ok, did anyone read the Twilight Zone-inspired diatribe Willard Libby just wrote, obstensibly in reply to me?

    Talk about a Theatre of The Absurd.

    OK, Willard, since you not only are a licensed psychologist but also a bona fide mindreader, what proof can you offer of your assertions as to my mental state and by extension my motivations for participation in this venue? This I gotta see.

    And the narratives given by Sojourner Truth and Harriet Tubman, to name a scant few, directly contradicts your widl eyed theories about Black Women and White Men during the slavery era.

    And I have indeed addressed your point, you haven’t addressed mine-let’s find actresses comparable to Robin Givens and Angela Bassett and see who actually looks better agewise. This aint hard to do, even for you Willard. Still waiting for you to holla back on that one.

    Whew…

    The Obsidian

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  257. on February 19, 2009 at 7:25 pm Anonymous

    Proof #35747392 that Williard Libby is a fucking tard:

    Black women wanting to be inseminated by White men in order to have lighter, prettier and smarter babies and as a result of black females looking to White men for sexual protection from black males

    HAHAHAhAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA fucking tard-tastic! Keep ’em coming, tard! Black females in slave times and Jim crow went to the white man to protect them from the black man! What a fucking moron, how many blows to the head did you suffer as a child?

    I also love how Retard Libby posts stream-of-consciousness 3000-word pseudoscientific rants about black women over and over yet accuses other people of having deep obsessions with certain races of women. Total low IQ prole.

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  258. on February 19, 2009 at 7:34 pm Anonymous

    JKC,
    I too, have used the downstairs bathroom at Wonderland, and when the women’s line was too long, the men’s and staff bathroom. And I repeat, unless you were sharing a toilet or urinal with someone, or saw the “nose swipe” with powder as they were leaving”, you didn’t see anything.

    Obsidian,
    I wasn’t contradicting you. I was just saying that the mentality that you described, doesn’t need a talk. It is already known from the moment you are considered a “pretty girl”.
    – Original Grace.

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  259. on February 19, 2009 at 7:36 pm Chuck

    “I’m no feminist but you guys aren’t dealing with the total woman’s health. Aging aint just about wrinkles. ”

    Willard, you’re overlooking the fact that blacks in general suffer from worse medical care than other races due to their lower socioeconomic standing. If you’re going to have an argument about who is “healthier” while trying to contradict the generally accepted fact that black women have fewer wrinkles, you have to compare large groups of both women, at similar ages, who have had similar medical care. Obsidian is pointing to the fact that when that is the scenario, (Robin Givens and Angela Bassett have good health care) black women appear more youthful by most measures.

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  260. on February 19, 2009 at 7:45 pm Chuck

    I went ahead and found some white women of comparable age to those you mentioned Obsidian. Still doesn’t change my agreeance with your argument that black women do appear more youthful on average than white women:

    I’d still bang Suzanne Somers, one boob and all.

    I was going to post Priscilla Presley but her *extreme* amount of plastic surgery makes for an unfair comparison.

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  261. on February 19, 2009 at 7:48 pm Bill

    Obsidian, in regards to you affording me the privilege of speaking my mind: funny, I heard Don King say the same thing when he was asked a hard question on an ESPN interview once. dull minds think alike, I suppose.

    if you think that your post had nothing to do with white men not finding thick women attractive, then I’m afraid you’ve(hysterically) missed your own point. this doesn’t surprise me, however, as I’ve seen what it’s like to argue with you in the past. LOL, it’s just too much, though, coming from the guy who constantly accuses others of moving the goal posts.

    another poster already addressed your claims about black women aging more gracefully than white women, and he was right: black women might look more youthful on the outside, but have a history of much higher rates of many other health problems, e.g. heart disease, diabetes, obesity, etc. I care not a bit about any of these issues, as I never intended to argue them. I’ll even concede that you’re right about external aging. no argument there. that said, I could live with a bitch with bad skin before I could live with an obese sista.

    nice straw man you threw up about me not being able to handle most black women thinking white men aren’t man enough for them. a quick perusal of my past arguments will reveal I never once gave an opinion on this subject one way or another. so, let me do it now: I think that of those black women who can’t bring themselves to date a white man, yes, that probably has a lot to do with it. and yes, I think black men are more appealing to white women than white men are to black women for the same reason, i.e. black men have more testosterone, on average, than men of any other race. and though this high testosterone level means that in most measurable criteria, black men are “more masculine”, it also means that they have a stronger sex drive than men of other races, the self-evidence of which is manifested in Susan Crain Bakos’s ability to score black dick but no other. in other words, most black men will seemingly bang anything. not so with white men.

    on to your next point. women choose. nonsense. another poster already shredded this assertion posed by you on the inaugural balls thread, but I’m not the least bit surprised to see you continue on asserting it as though it were fact (you just don’t learn, do you?). let’s restate it for shits-n-giggles: women only choose in so far as they choose the men who are attracted to them. if a man is not attracted to a woman, no matter how much she “chooses” him, she won’t be receiving any of his jizz if he’d rather rub one off than copulate with her. so, contrary to your sophomoric assertion, men ultimately choose in that if the man can’t/won’t become aroused by the female, then all bets are off. this may come as a surprise to you, given your proclivity to bang just about anything, but it is only once the man has sexual interest in the female that she is free to choose. I consider this to be axiomatic; the fact that you can’t wrap your head around it is your problem but does not change the reality of the situation. go hoist your embarrassingly misinformed and specious E.P. arguments on some dummy who’s willing to buy your brand.

    granted, most men will bang anything, a trait that was necessary to propagate the species millenia ago, so to the untrained mind (e.g. yours), it might look like women do all the choosing. what I contend we’re seeing today, though, is that men are becoming choosier and choosier now that the survival of our human species is no longer in doubt, coupled with laws that, in our western society, certainly don’t favor the promiscuous man.

    go cry in the corner for a few minutes, Obsidian. once you’ve collected yourself, come back and continue reading.

    I will answer your question about where all the lightskinned black folks came from. I would appreciate you similarly accepting my challenge to cite some black female sex symbols who don’t have white features.

    lightskinned black folks, it seems to me, would had to have come from interracial sex. but remember what I said in my last post: to a 40 or 50 year old white aristocrat slave owner (of which there weren’t very many as a percentage of the population, or even of the Southern population), the young, fit, fertile black girl with a firm ass who was running around the house was more than likely a more attractive option than putting the stones to the old lady of the house who, by this point, was probably no longer very attractive to say the least. I hope what you’re getting at here is that white men raped the slave girls and that that rape constitutes proof of the white man’s interest in black girls, because, if this is indeed what you’re getting at, you lose again based on the data I provided in the previous thread. but anyway, how many of such white on black copulations were a result of actual rape?? don’t you think, based on what we know about women having no qualms with fucking their way to the top, that the black house girl slave might’ve seen it was in her best interest to fuck the house master? seems to me like a sure-fire way to curry favor. or do you think the house master just waded out into the fields and grabbed up the sweatiest, fiestiest female he could find and had at her?

    obviously there were cases of white on black rape during slavery, just as there were cases of the slave girl trying to fuck her way into favoritism. I never argued to the contrary. what I did argue with was this fantasy you have of such white on black rape being utterly rampant. I refer you AGAIN to the data I provided in the previous thread. there’s no escaping those numbers, Obsidian, just as there’s no escaping that any children of white on black slave rapes are long since dead. you and Ricky Raw were in agreement earlier that half black babies born during slavery were essentially considered black and were reabsorbed into the slave community, so based on that, it would seem that the whiteness would eventually be bred out of them. seems to me that the vasy majority of mixed black/white children today are from a white mother and black father.

    as to the white women who proactively pursue black men, I won’t argue that they don’t exist. BUT, I will contend that the vast majority of them are of the Susan Crain Bakos variety who have no choice but to pursue black dick lest they never get laid again. they tend to be heffers. not an ironclad rule, but a pretty good rule of thumb.

    where’s your data for the average dress size in this country being a 14? even if it’s true, all that tells me is that there are a bunch of losers out there who can’t get any other pussy than fat bitches. I am not one of them. I’ll leave them for you to bang. I get the feeling you’d be down for it.

    you’re weak sauce, Obsidian. weak sauce.

    again, I cite Kip scoring Lafawnduh. you lose.

    holla back, if you can.

    –The Bill

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  262. on February 19, 2009 at 8:13 pm Kthulah

    Anony, most men are hypocrites when it comes to sex, but it’s not unheard of for a guy to “outsource” if something happens to him that he can’t perform. The worry that pops up for these guys is losing the wife. If he doesn’t have that worry, it makes things much easier for him…sort of like with my ex.

    Once we figured out what his problem was, I actually considered and then looked into having myself reproductively neutralized. That means a full hysterectomy and clitorectomy. I’m not a strict monogamist, but the idea of our union possibly being threatened by someone else just because I was horny, was not appealing.

    As it turned out, the ethnic situation here takes care of most of that issue. So he was right not to let me go through with the operations. He told me to find some young virile guy who respected me well enough, and get laid.

    People who love each other really, do not want to enslave one another…and deep down, they don’t want their partner to make the drastic changes it would take for a fully functional person to be okay with living without sex.

    If you want to know if your once a month or twice a year partner loves you, present them with that dilema…if they would rather you cut it off, or get your needs met.

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  263. on February 19, 2009 at 8:19 pm dougjnn

    Obsidian —

    Yes, men basically do accept “fairness” as the standard. Of course that’s a heavily socially mediated concept, but it always has something to do with equality. Treating like alike.

    Women have long manipulated men in particular and in general using this precept.

    Women on the other hand are far less likely to be moved by fairness. Instead it’s compassion for those they care about (which moves men too), but also those they identify with, more so than men. They are especially likely to place men’s interests last, not equal but last, and those of women and children first. While all the while relying on men to defend them against men that would rape or enslave them, and so on.

    Men have been made ABUNDANTLY aware of women’s priorities and points of view.

    It’s high time that women were made aware of men’s true priorities and points of view. That is those of men in touch with their biological nature and not submerged by feminist and predecessor (in the anglosphere) chivalrous cultural propaganda.

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  264. on February 19, 2009 at 8:24 pm Anonymous

    just as there’s no escaping that any children of white on black slave rapes are long since dead. you and Ricky Raw were in agreement earlier that half black babies born during slavery were essentially considered black and were reabsorbed into the slave community, so based on that, it would seem that the whiteness would eventually be bred out of them.

    stop reciting thought experiment speculation as fact. white genes from slavery times were not magically “bred out of” the black population through reintegration. genetics don’t work that way. the genes got diffused and spread across the general overall black population. this is why according to studies cited by Steve Sailer, hardly an afrocentrist, the average black American today has 17%-22% white genes, much more white genes than the average black in West Africa. Why not try some research sometime instead of just highly flawed and incomplete thought experiments?

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  265. on February 19, 2009 at 8:31 pm dougjnn

    Obsidian/Mu-min–

    “I would then tell her the truth about White Women: that, on average, they age faster and at a harsher rate than do Women of other racil groups, and because of this, she will need to be very careful about her appearance and most of all, her weight.”

    I am not aware that that’s true at all.

    I see far more propensity among black women to get all degrees of fat far earlier but on and on, all the way up to the most obese on earth.

    In fact it’s simply an objective reality that West African (where African American’s black ancestors nearly all come from, Obama notwithstanding) females are among the least attractive cross racially in the world. Australian Aborigines do score lower. There are studies. European women score highest although Eurasians tend to score even higher, both modern ones and clinal ones where pre jet age or global ocean trading unions took place. E.g. places like Persia or yeah sometimes southern italy (Mixed Euros, Arabs, N.Africans, a few drops of subSahara). I don’t know that studies have covered this, but Euro / NE Africans mixes can also be really, really hot. NE Africans are either a back mix or a transition zone (probably some of both) with Arabian Caucasians. See e.g. Stanford’s Luigi Cavalli Sforza seminal masterwork: “The History and Geography of Human Genes”.

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  266. on February 19, 2009 at 8:31 pm Obsidian

    *Turning to face Roissy audience* I hope you good people can see what I’m up against here, right?

    OK Bill…

    Let’s begin w/Don King. Now, he’s not one of my favorite people, but I will say this: he’s managed to position himself in a field that was, at the top, dominated by White hands. Today, you can’t do jack WITHOUT going to see the Don. And, he’s actually contributed more to this economy than you and Willard Libby combined. Not bad for a dullard.

    Only in America.

    And I would actually agree w/you on the Black slave girls-no doubt, some would seek to curry favor by “sleeping ahead”. But even in accepting that premise, it still doesn’t account for the narratives of Harriet Tubman or Sojourner Truth, two very Black Women slaves in the Deep South. And while I’m on this point, let me note that not only were White slavers able to have their way w/Black Women w/legal impunity but so could ANY WHITE MAN. Look it up. Report back the number of White Men who were locked up for sexually assaulting a Black slave girl, Bill. You’re good w/numbers. Calculate that.

    I can’t think up any Black sex symbols w/broad noses, thick lips and the like, I freely admit that Bill-but, before the cheering starts, we need to note that from a genetic standpoint, people of African background contain within them more genetic variation than anyone else on Earth. I’m sure people who study this thing a bit more than I do, like Mike Blowhard, can speak to this and correct me if I’m in error.

    My point is, that Women like Iman or Grace Jones, who have keener features yet are undeniably Black…would they pass your test? Because if not, I think what you’re looking for is a certain subset group in Africa, notably parts of the Western side.

    And until you can provide a better documented track record than Mystery himself wrt what it takes to attract choice Women into one’s bed, I’ll take what HE has to say about the issue over you. In his book, he clearly notes the importance of getting the Woman attracted to you, before anything else can happen. There are Women in this forum right now who can correct me if I’m wrong-they know that it don’t take much to get a Man attracted to a Woman, provided she’s generally attractive. In this, I’ll grant you that.

    BUT, after that, it’s her show, and again, Style himself says as much in The Game. Now again, unless or until you can show all of us a better documented track record than either of thes Men, I think we can safely say that you’ve wandered a little beyond your paygrade, chief.

    What else here…

    My entire point was to challenge the notion that White Men never found Black Women sexually attractive. The historical record of the USA, says otherwise.

    Holla back young’un

    The Obsidian

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  267. on February 19, 2009 at 8:44 pm Obsidian

    Doug,
    I think you’re conflating what I said about aging and what you consider to be attractive; they can be exclusive, don’t you know. Again: on average, White Women tend not to age as well, as Black (anywhere on the African continent), Hispanic, or Asian Women. All other things being equal, of course.

    As for your other point, actually I agree, and would put the blame on the Man in the relationship. He is the de facto leader of his family, of his home. He is to provide direction and leadership and to make his intentions and goals for the family clearly demarcated and understood. One of the dirty little secrets we Menfolk have is that all too often, we don’t want to own up to the fact that we fall down a lot more on the job than we’re willing to admit.

    I have told quite a few Women in my life, past and especially present, what I will and will not accept of them, fullstop. And they know I will walk. With the quickness. I am a quality Male and deserve nothing less than a quality Female (actually several, since I do the work of several Men I should enjoy the love of several Women. That’s only fair.), I have standards for how I would like them to look and they do not in any way have to comply; I will simply find someone else.

    And she will enjoy my gratitude.

    The Obsidian

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  268. on February 19, 2009 at 8:54 pm alphadominance

    Roissy,

    The 10,000 Year Explosion posits that adaptive selection causes differential expression of genes preexisting in the genome. This is essentially the same as selective breeding of domestic livestock or plants. Outer differences but the same genome. This differs from Lysenkoism in that he held that outer changes would become part of the genome. If this were the case, American men would no longer need a circumcision, and none of us would grow wisdom teeth. I’ll give you that adaptation has given rise to certain variation in the races. My point however was that these pale in comparison to our similarities. Though it may be a matter of opinion, mine is that the races are not inherently better on the whole. Certain qualities obviously vary somewhat but who’s to judge what’s better, it depends on your environment.

    All the other points seem to revolve around the idea that Caucasians are in your opinion inherently superior to other races. Would you further assert that specific subgroups are better, say Nordics, or Mediterranean peoples? Maybe you’re playing the Devil’s advocate, maybe not. I personally don’t agree, perhaps you could share your basis for this opinion. The one case I’ve heard put forth repeatedly in the past is European’s colonial dominance, however I believe the book “Guns Germs and Steel” rebuts this reasoning effectively. What are your thoughts on this?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

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  269. on February 19, 2009 at 9:27 pm lf

    “If this were the case, American men would no longer need a circumcision.” You mean in addition to the one most of them already have? And what is your understanding of “need” here? Few European men are circumcized and they seem to get along well enough.

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  270. on February 19, 2009 at 9:28 pm Anonymous

    Alex Wek is a very famous supermodel who doesn’t have European features. Gabrielle Union is pretty famous, and pretty dark. Toccara is a very famous full-figured model who is very popular in the black community. The aforementioned Angela Basset, Grace Jones were considered very popular in their day.

    But the history of black America being what it is, most African-Americans have some white genes, and about a quarter of whites have some African genes.

    As at least study has shown, the reason hy there are fewer white men/black women pairings is because less black women want to date white guys. White guys seem neutral about the various races.

    Some of you did get it right, like Dan, who hypothesized that Asians are relatively more willing to date outside their race. David predicted that black men are more likely to date white women than white men are to date black women — which is right, although not for the reason many people think. It’s not that white men are more reluctant to date non-whites; it’s that black women are less willing to date someone of another race.

    At least that’s the picture that emerges from studies of online daters and speed daters. Men are generally willing to date someone of another race, but women are more reluctant, especially African-American women.

    The researchers, after controlling for all other attributes (height, weight, attractiveness, etc.), calculated how much extra income (relative to the income of the average online male dater, $62,500) a man would need to overcome the racial barrier. Here are some of the estimates (there weren’t enough data to do all the interracial permutations) of how much each extra income a man would need to be equally appealing to a woman as would a man of her own race:

    For equal success with an African-American woman, a Hispanic man needs to earn an extra $184,000; a white man needs to earn an additional $220,000.

    For equal success with a white woman, an African-American needs to earn an additional $154,000; a Hispanic man needs $77,000; an Asian needs $247,000.

    For equal success with a Hispanic woman, an African-American man needs to earn an additional $30,000; a white man needs to earn an additional $59,000.

    For equal success with an Asian woman, an African-American needs no additional income; a white man needs $24,000 less than average; a Hispanic man needs $28,000 more than average.

    It seems clear from these two studies that it is black women’s preferences that are driving the interracial dating disparity, somewhat to black women’s own detriment I think.

    http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/single-female-seeking-same-race-male/

    http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/emir.kamenica/documents/genderDifferences.pdf

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  271. on February 19, 2009 at 9:45 pm dougjnn

    Obsidian said–

    “Again: on average, White Women tend not to age as well, as Black (anywhere on the African continent), Hispanic, or Asian Women. All other things being equal, of course.”

    Your evidence for this is what exactly? It’s not my impression.

    “and what you consider to be attractive”

    Read what I said black rock. I didn’t talk about what I consider to be attractive, but what objective social science has found that a broad sampling of men around the world find to be most attractive. West African extraction women place near the bottom, with Australian Aborigines (now and always small in numbers but not tiny historically and large in racial distinctiveness and distinctiveness of (likely) history of racial divergence)

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  272. on February 19, 2009 at 9:58 pm dougjnn

    Obsidian —

    Also this notion that virtually all slave era white/black couplings were rapes has virtually no support. It’s just supposed by Marxist/Feminist/Afro guilt mongering theorists. In part they get there by just declaring as a matter of ideologically derrived self evident fact that any sexual coupling with a large power gradient is ipso facto rape. Yeah, right.

    I’ve no doubt that sometimes it was rape. Also however we know that women are attracted to status and wealth most of all, and especially so when they’re dirt poor and have no other way even partially out. There is a tendency to devalue this and excessively value things like muscles and even T level today because money and freedom are plentiful but it was not always or usually so in the past, for most people, and especially not field hand slaves.

    Out you ask, incredulously. Well actually black female mistresses were often moved to the big house, sometimes freed and much more commonly their offspring by their white master were freed, and sometimes even set up (money) a little bit. Went north. Part of why northern blacks are whiter than southern ones.

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  273. on February 19, 2009 at 10:11 pm Anonymous

    Also this notion that virtually all slave era white/black couplings were rapes has virtually no support.

    neither does the notion that virtually all slave era white/black couplings were consensual. even the “consensual” couplings, how much true “choice” do you think the slave had in them? and it was not “common” for their offspring to be freed, that was the exception. more often than not, the offspring was sent as slaves to other plantations to avoid scandal, especially because the white mistress of the house would not want to see them. moving the black female mistresses to the house also did not happen “often,” as again, the white mistress of the house would not really enjoy adding insult to her own injury. What you describe did occasionally happen, but not “often” and it was not “common.”

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  274. on February 19, 2009 at 10:11 pm Anonymous

    How to tell if its rape or not: does she have the power to say no? If not, then its rape, no matter how you swing it. SWo did black women have the power to say no to their white masters without fear of physical reprisal? If someone owns you, that means they own all of you, including your sexual functions, and you don’t get to say no.

    I’m sure some white slave masters were very fond of the women they raped, much like a favored pet, and they got more privileges than the rest. Other slave masters proaly not so much. Just as some slave masters did not want to their progeny kept in slavery, and freed them, while others seemed perfectly content to see their children sold to pad their own coffers.

    I don’t think northern blacks are lighter than southern blacks. If you’ve ever been to New Orleans or Charleston, a huge portion of people there who consider themselves black could pass for white. There really aren’t equivalent cities like that in the North.

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  275. on February 19, 2009 at 10:16 pm Anonymous

    In part they get there by just declaring as a matter of ideologically derrived self evident fact that any sexual coupling with a large power gradient is ipso facto rape.

    yeah, the historians didn’t use any historical and genealogical records, they just made it up. in fact, if you read the scores of volumes of books about slavery, and you go to the notes and bibliography sections, you won’t see any actual proof from the era’s historical records backing up the claims. it’s just marxists making stuff up out of whole cloth. seriously, are you really this stupid?

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  276. on February 19, 2009 at 10:18 pm alphadominance

    “If this were the case, American men would no longer need a circumcision.” You mean in addition to the one most of them already have? And what is your understanding of “need” here? Few European men are circumcized and they seem to get along well enough.

    This was a commentary on Lysenkoism, not meant to imply it is needed. Personally I think it’s a silly custom but it is the norm here. In Lysenkoism, the claim was that acquired characteristics are heritable, as in something done to an adult organism would be propagated in future generations. My point was that if this theory held, generations of circumcision in America would become assimilated into the genome and new babies would lack a foreskin. This is obviously not the case.

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  277. on February 19, 2009 at 10:18 pm Sara I

    That was a very boring story roissy. A big, so what? I have friends who had been married for 15 years and he was the one packing on the pounds and playing video games in the basement every night. Then she had an affair and was going to leave him. He was devastated, lost 70 pounds, and became the most attentive husband imaginable and she stayed with him and their two kids. I have another friend who’s husband left her because she was too skinny. Like a size zero skinny, but it’s the same body type she had when they got married.

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  278. on February 19, 2009 at 10:25 pm dougjnn

    Obsidian–

    West Africans and NE Africans form two different racial groups, if we’re going to divide below the top 3 or 7 or so.

    The thing about racial groups is that like language families, they can be very logically and meaningfully divided, both in terms of function and history, into anywhere between 1 (undivided, all races of man and all languages have much in common) and thousands.

    Nonetheless there are certain clumps. And the really fine divisions, particularly racially, seem to usually be of little broad significance. But sometimes they are. And we’re recently learning that contrary to the accepted (heavily Marxist influence — and it really was) dogma, far from stopping 50,000 years ago, human evolution including brain and emotional evolution has accelerated GREATLY, even hugely, since then. Why? Two reasons. Higher populations and much more rapidly changing environments. Environments includes the whole magilla that humans live it. It certainly includes agriculture and cities versus hunting on the savannah, or in the sub-arctic, but it also includes writing and proliferation of specializtion and so on. It’s all about who survives to produce the most offspring. Before modern Christian/socialist welfare it was the rich and richer that did so WAY more. With the urban poor, subject to disease sometimes invited by starvation, dying off way more.

    Linguistically there’s always the biggie about being able to understand each other without studying the other’s language. Dialect is at that cline. Sometimes it can and sometimes it can’t be understood by others sharing the same “language” but a different dialect. The more intelligent and of course those with more familiarity tend to understand more. In contrast, all humans can inter-breed, and significant, but varying, percentages want to.

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  279. on February 19, 2009 at 10:25 pm Obsidian

    Oh, and Bill,

    The current average dress size stat of American (read, White, since they makeup the majority) Woman is easily found online. And while you are correct, the Obsidian is most definitely a friend of the Zaftig Woman, we have to be clear on what that means. I have no problem w/a Woman having some meat on her bones, provided certain other conditions be met; and, quite frankly, the kind of Women many of my White brethren in this venue tend to go for I have not found satisfactory for my amatory pleasures and requirements. See, my tastes in a more stout Woman is more than merely aesthetic; thinner gals tend not to be able to withstand the kinds of sessions I prefer. No dis to the Pump n Dump Crowd, but I prefer to go Long & Deep on a Woman, usually over the course of several days. Its been my experience that the size 4s and the like can’t hack it.

    I’m just sayin.

    Oh, have you ever heard of Heidi Klum? Last time I heard, she looked a lot different than Ms. Bakos. Hmm.

    By all means, holla back

    The Obsidian

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  280. on February 19, 2009 at 10:29 pm Anonymous

    a prediction for the next piece of nonsense to come from dougjnn or retard libby:

    only marxists say african women were forced into slavery. they actually mailed letters from africa inviting white slave traders to come take them into captivity, because they wanted white genes and iq for their kids, plus they wanted sexual protection from their african countrymen and also they were impressed with their status. the african women actually initiated the slave trade and built the ships in hopes that white men would rescue them from black men by making them slaves and impregnating them on an american plantation. only a leftist idiot would dare say otherwise. and white men didn’t really desire them sexually, the high testosterone of the black women gave them enough strength to physically overpower and rape the disgusted white slaveowners, and get themselves pregnant against the white man’s will. in fact, check the fbi stats about high black crime and you can see black women must have been interacially raping the white slaveowners. it’s only the damn leftwingers and marxists that say otherwise.

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  281. on February 19, 2009 at 10:40 pm Kthulah

    It might be anecdotal, but from my observation, Black women are more racist than Black men when it comes to intercultural dating. Part of it is the perception of non Black men as less manly to the point that economic advantages would not compensate.

    Of those of us who don’t see things that way, almost all of the ones I know or know of have had some early exposure to White males through media or education, who defied that stereotype or had traits that would compensate for the lesser handsomeness.

    My first White guy crush as a kid was Mr. Rogers. 🙂

    He’s no Henry Cele, but he had a certain something, and he liked jazz.

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  282. on February 19, 2009 at 10:42 pm Wounded Animal

    The one case I’ve heard put forth repeatedly in the past is European’s colonial dominance, however I believe the book “Guns Germs and Steel” rebuts this reasoning effectively. What are your thoughts on this?

    Diamond won’t even defend his thesis in open debate. That’s how confident he is in it. But what the hey. You do what you gotta do to make money.

    Anyhoo, like somebody here already mentioned, Amy Brayfield left her first husband only to realize she had zero marketablity with alpha males, so she snagged a second beta androgyne quicker than you can breathe the word “settle.” That last paragraph was particularly pathetic, as if those flabby arms could manage to unhitch a belt much less rip a man’s shirt off. And she apparently won’t even be photographed in public with this prize.

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  283. on February 19, 2009 at 10:43 pm Obsidian

    Grace,
    Thank you so much for attempting to inject a bit of reason and sanity into the discussion. I think you might agree with me that cognitive dissonance can be harrowing to witness, yes?

    O

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  284. on February 19, 2009 at 10:55 pm Anonymous

    Diamond won’t even defend his thesis in open debate. That’s how confident he is in it. But what the hey. You do what you gotta do to make money.

    doesn’t mean the science is bad. the sourcing and documentation provided in the book is extensive. and if you think superior debating skills always means superior information and truth, you’ve never been on a debate team. it could be a style issue, meaning he might just be a horrible speaker/debater.

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  285. on February 19, 2009 at 10:55 pm dougjnn

    Anonymous said —

    “you won’t see any actual proof from the era’s historical records backing up the claims. it’s just marxists making stuff up”

    Yes it largely is. Of course there was rape. But the claim that it was all of almost all or overwhelmingly rape, unless you’re gonna say all large power gradient sex is ipso facto rape, is simply not there. Never been established. Complete BS.

    You say otherwise? Prove it.

    You know Anonymous feminist leftist, most men don’t enjoy rape. Real rape. The pre rad feminist kind. Physically forced rape. Though men love power gradient sex. Alpha men do it and virtually all men fantasize about it. All the best sex for hetro men and women is male sexual power gradient sex. If you don’t know that I pitty your poverty of experience, if you aren’t lesbian. Even then I might.

    Men want the woman to want them — though they often aren’t all that particular as to why. (Women sometimes theorize that “want them” must mean “are falling in love with them”. Hell no for men.)

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  286. on February 19, 2009 at 10:57 pm finefantastic

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090219.wlharvey19/BNStory/lifeFamily/

    just act like a lady. think like a man!

    i’m going to stand outside car doors now.

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  287. on February 19, 2009 at 10:58 pm Obsidian

    Grace,
    Thank you for mentioning Toccara Jones. Just pulled up her page on Wikipedia, according to it she is listed as 5’9″ and 160lbs and my God, what a rack she has. When I say “Zaftig, not Zeppelin” Toccara would be an example of what I mean.

    Such a fine, sturdy Lass is just what the doctor ordered for the Obsidian, where I could consume her in the most ardent sensual delights over the course of three to four days straight. Yes indeedy.

    Thanks again.

    The Obsidian

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  288. on February 19, 2009 at 11:06 pm Anonymous

    You say otherwise? Prove it.

    How? With the same extensive proof you used to prove that most of it was consensual? Oh wait, you provided no proof? Then shut the fuck up stupid and stop demanding things you can’t provide yourself. Or better yet, just read some books on the era that have extensive citations to historical records in the back. There’s no respected historian that would even come close to taking a view as utterly fucking stupid as yours.

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  289. on February 19, 2009 at 11:07 pm dougjnn

    Anonymous —

    “moving the black female mistresses to the house also did not happen “often,” as again, the white mistress of the house would not really enjoy adding insult to her own injury.”

    Here we’re both dealing in theorizing. But what I’d say is move the pretty girl first, couple with her second. Any male, bright or not, who wasn’t either utterly pigheaded or felt himself to be utterly dominant over his white wife (correctly or incorrectly) would do so. Hell even if he did believe himself that dominant if he had any brains at all he’d take the better course. Most planters did have some brains. They were generally younger sons (disinherited by primogeniter) descended from southern English aristocracy surrounding London, whose families had tended to support King Charles in the English Civil War of the mid 16th century (cavaliers). See Fischer, Albion’s Seed. Or else they were New Men in the New World, moving into this class by and large by some kind of merit.

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  290. on February 19, 2009 at 11:11 pm Anonymous

    dougjnn, i shouldn’t even bother to respond your demand for proof since you pull shit out your ass without giving proof yourself, but start with this chapter from this book, and follow the historical sources it cites:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=NDdxXkylAHgC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=white+wives+black+slave+mistress&source=web&ots=D-oUny-Jcq&sig=Mg5OiI6yuLWSkkgBB8aC-RVAKk0&hl=en&ei=ix-eSdbQOdW5twe_k6GSDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

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  291. on February 19, 2009 at 11:13 pm dougjnn

    Anonymous said —

    “You say otherwise? Prove it.

    How? With the same extensive proof you used to prove that most of it was consensual?”

    I don’t and haven’t said there’s any good evidence either way. I said there wasn’t.

    I also said that Marxist/Feminist/black guilt mongering academics just made up their rape narrative out of ideological desire and a few scraps of evidence that rape did sometimes occur between white masters and black female slaves. Of course it sometimes did. That doesn’t prove or even strongly suggest a nearly always story. Which as you yourself say, is the almost unchallengable dogma in the very leftist (in social science and the humanities) academy (elite universities, like the one I went to, Stanford) today.

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  292. on February 19, 2009 at 11:19 pm Wounded Animal

    Diamond’s reasoning is incredibly convoluted and at the same time shallow. He points out that Europeans beat his beloved New Guineans (now there’s a group to strike a man’s fancy!) in abstract processes because they’ve had years of complex society. But all he does is beg the question of why Europeans evolved complex socieities while New Guineans have always been and continue to be jungle bunnies with primitive Big Man economies.

    Like Sailer points out, he’s like Chomsky, who noted the innate neurological proclivity of homo sapiens for language, and then didn’t do a thing with it for these past 50 years and counting because he was too afraid of where it would lead him. Diamond knows there are differences, and he also knows that if environment is as strong a factor as he says, then it is surely going to lead to selectivity for different traits in breeding partners. But since the Corporation for Public Broadcasting won’t let you on the air with such ideas, he comes up with his guns-germs-steel thesis instead.

    It really does amaze me how many squishy leftists this blog attracts.

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  293. on February 19, 2009 at 11:21 pm Anonymous

    Here we’re both dealing in theorizing.

    it’s not theorizing. it’s documented in slave narratives, letters and historical records from the era and history books on the antebellum south. start with the books of herbert gutman if you want a place to start. his books draw heavily on contemporary records of the era. but don’t accuse me of doing your type of wishful thinking theorizing. i actually read the history of what i’m talking about before i talk about it, unlike you.

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  294. on February 19, 2009 at 11:40 pm dougjnn

    Anonymous —

    “dougjnn, i shouldn’t even bother to respond your demand for proof since you pull shit out your ass without giving proof yourself, but start with this chapter from this book, and follow the historical sources it cites:”

    That book is entirely anecdotal, relies on second and third (or more) hand oral sources, and is subject to huge bias at all levels.

    Why huge bias? Well, compose yourself. Just who do you think the author, or the second or third (or more) hand source would please if she admitted, if it were true, that she had in fact willingingly submitted herself to her white slave master for various reasons?

    After all one of the themes in Uncle Tom’s Cabin, the female written novel that some say helped spark the north to do things which started the American Civil War, was the white male sexual misuse of his black female slaves in the south. That could get the conservative religious types of the north fired up, esp. with lots of their wives and girlfriends goading. And did.

    My point is that the believable evidence, if one wants to try to be objective (which neither dogmatic leftists like you nor the religious right tend to be when one gets to ideas threatening to their core beliefs), is very thin.

    Upon this the Marxist/Feminist/black guilt mongering academy has built a dogma of nearly universal slavemaster RAPE of black female slaves as the reason for the roughly 20% (higher in the north, lower in the south) white admixture among American “blacks”.

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  295. on February 19, 2009 at 11:50 pm David Alexander

    but I prefer to go Long & Deep on a Woman, usually over the course of several days

    As an avid porn watcher, I’ve noted the difference between a Justin Slayer porn film (or hell, Manuel Ferrara) and something done by Jules Jordan. They guys in the Slayer flicks tend to go for what could possibly resemble “long & deep” style that you describe. His stuff is the only black-directed porn that I’d watch primarily because it isn’t a two hour long rap video with porn stars, but it’t high quality porn that isn’t insulting to the viewer and doesn’t prey on stereotypes or ugly guys with doo-rags.

    Thank you for mentioning Toccara Jones.

    She’s hot. 🙂

    She’s in an excellent size zone, and she has nails. 🙂

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  296. on February 19, 2009 at 11:52 pm Anonymous

    That book is entirely anecdotal, relies on second and third (or more) hand oral sources, and is subject to huge bias at all levels.

    have you read the book? and do you know everything it cites? i have a feeling based on previous comments you are just assuming it’s entirely anecdoate and biased just because it doesn’t fit into your worldview.

    you’ve been freely using thought experiments and anecdotes about male status and consensual sex to make your points, yet when the case is being made against you you suddenly don’t believe anything without vigorous, airtight proof. if you don’t hold yourself to that standard, which you don’t, don’t be a hypocrite when i give a source that has better research than anything you provide

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  297. on February 19, 2009 at 11:53 pm Kthulah

    Doug, there’s something you’re forgetting.

    There were White and Native American slaves too, and most of them were of ethnicities deemed inferior and ugly by their Anglo and French owners.

    They also reported being raped, prostituted, and bred like cattle with Black slaves.

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  298. on February 19, 2009 at 11:58 pm dougjnn

    To make the huge bias point clearer, just who do you think the black female slaves, now they hope ex slaves, escaping into the “underground railroad” leading them to northern American or Canadian states, felt they needed to please, or soon learned they did? Or once they had been settled, who do you think they felt they owed their freedom to?

    Generally white women interacting with them. Northern whites generally. Devotes of the yes laudibly anti slavery, but also luridly emotional Uncle Tom’s Cabin, or if before, the cultural types most disposed to love it.

    Another way of making this clearer is this. One of the things that most weighed for northerners against allowing slavery to spread or maybe anywhere exist in America was the notion that slave labor would degrade and devalue and bring down the wage rates of free labor. A rallying cry of working class notherners was all about Free Labor.

    One of the things that most weighed for northern women (and their male beta devotees) against slavery was that under slavery men could have sexual congress and mastery over some women without any negotiation whatsoever.

    This later theme was the greatest emotional power of Uncle Tom’s Cabin in the north.

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  299. on February 20, 2009 at 12:00 am Anonymous

    They also reported being raped, prostituted, and bred like cattle with Black slaves.

    he’ll probably just say they were marxist liars, then ask you for photographic proof to back up your point meanwhile using anecdotes to back up his own point. it’s like arguing with a kid.

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  300. on February 20, 2009 at 12:05 am dougjnn

    Kthulah–

    Yes there were white and Amerindian slaves in N.America. Well slavery was widespread around the world with all races as slaves until it began to be abolished, lead by Britain (which in addition to being I think significantly Christian, was also the first and at the time most advanced industrial (labor saving, and otherwise wealth creating) nation.

    But no Amerindian females were never generally thought of as ugly. Quite the opposite. They also weren’t really thought of as dumb. Instead “savage”. “Heathen”. Meaning, aren’t culturally up to speed, and that matters to us lots.

    White men went for Amerindian women big time when in environments when white women weren’t making their families dirt. Like on the frontier.

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  301. on February 20, 2009 at 12:46 am Obsidian

    Hi Dave,
    Yea, a good point on Slayer. Never really thought about it, but I guess you could say that I’m something of a fan of his work. Not familiar w/the other guy you mentioned, but I do get your point about porn in general these days. Slayer by comparison does seem to care about the Women he works with. And yea I aint gonna front, being compared to the guy aint bad either. 😉

    And yup, Toccara is da bomb-and don’t get it twisted, if our White brothers could, they’d be all up in that, you best believe that. Many of em are just too scared of what they peeps would think. They gotta grow some backbone for a change. Many of their problems stem directly from this.

    O

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  302. on February 20, 2009 at 12:49 am Bill

    Obsidian,
    never thought I’d hear myself say this to you, but I think we might be finding some common ground here. but first, on a COMPLETE tangent: has Don King contributed to the economy? I contend we’ll never know the answer to that. why? because of the economic concept of opportunity cost. for example, what if Don King put on a fight card that garnered $100 million in PPV buys…maybe somebody more intelligent who had his shit more in one bag could’ve squeezed $150 million out of that same card. thus, Don King actually cost the economy $50 million it would’ve/could’ve otherwise had, had he not been running the show. but like I said, we’ll never know for sure. I just think the guy’s a dipshit, but you’re right: only in America.

    carrying on, again, I’m not saying that whites never raped blacks before blacks had equal protection under the law. I’m simply saying it wasn’t to the extent you believe, AND that black men have long since overtaken white men in the department of interracial rapes. again, for the math behind this assertion, I refer you to the data I provided in the previous thread, data that unquestionably supports this.

    you sound like a guilty white liberal (Chuck?) when you say you expect me to cheer when you concede that you can’t think of any black sex symbols with traditionally black features. no cheering here. I’m simply citing the fact that in this predominantly (for now) white country, no one has successfully “sold” a black sex symbol that didn’t also appeal to whites (e.g. Beyonce), which means that unless white men find her attractive, she’s not a sex symbol for all intents and purposes. since white men don’t typically find black features attractive, a black girl must have white features to be considered sexy across racial lines. and no, I don’t think Grace Jones is hot. never did. then again, I only really remember her in Boomerang where she played the proverbial (to use Eddie Murphy’s vernacular) “African Bush Bitch”. and I think she was also in a Conan movie where she played some savage chick. I’ve never seen her in a feminized role, but, based on what I have seen, I don’t think I’d find her attractive.

    I’ll be the first to concede that Roissy or Mystery could blow me out of any set if they felt like it, but you’re putting words that they’re not saying in their mouths. sure, Mystery might stress the importance of getting the woman attracted to you, but that statement presupposes that you’re attracted to the woman and want to bang her. so, what Mystery is saying and what I am saying–that men ultimately choose–are not at odds with one another. think about it: what’s the point in attracting a girl who you don’t want to bang? who would waste his time? not me.

    Heidi Klum? dude she’s married to Seal. he has a voice that melts panties, so he hardly represents the typical…anybody. how many times do I have to remind you that I’m talking about trends, not statistical outliers. this has been your M.O. from the get-go. you cite one instance of something and attempt to derive a rule from it. life doesn’t work that way.
    Heidi: Seal baby, eat my pussy. Hang on, let me get my panties off.
    Seal: don’t worry about it baby. I’ll sing the first verse to “Love’s Divine” and those panties will take care of themselves.

    Kthula: it’s also been my observation that black women are super racist about interracial dating, but these are always the black women who don’t find white men attractive. I think the reason they’re so racist is because they’ve found themselves at the bottom of the desirability scale, and, since black men tend to be the only men out there willing to bang them, they’re not at all pleased when those black men give their time and attention to other slits.

    Willard Libby stated: “Your average White guy is less afraid of approaching or talking to a black female than an attractive White one.” this is the absolute truth. back in the day before there even was a pickup community (at least as far as I knew; this was 1998), I used to get my hair braided once a month at a black hair salon. all the girls there quickly took a liking to me, I guess because they realized I wasn’t the typical “stuffy white person”. for whatever reason, I seemed to have no problem talking to and joking around with these black girls, and they all fucking loved it. they even gave me a nickname, “Baby Daddy”, saying, “Billy, it’s just a matter of time before you have a baby momma if you keep hangin around here.” I used to ask myself why-oh-why was it so easy to talk to these black chicks and get them to want my nuts, yet every time a girl I actually liked was around, I suffered complete brain lock-up. I now know the reason: I wasn’t attracted to those girls, so I wasn’t tense. hot chicks were overwhelming.

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  303. on February 20, 2009 at 12:57 am alphadominance

    With you on Toccara. Would not hesitate.

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  304. on February 20, 2009 at 1:10 am Chuck

    Who are you now Obsidian? Eric Holder?

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  305. on February 20, 2009 at 1:12 am Bill

    Chuck: If you want to truly address this issue you’d have to experiment with a situation where white men had an ability to choose equally from a pool of white and black women who were equal in “easiness.”

    oh but Chuck, I provided EXACTLY such a data set in my previous argument with Obsidian on the “My Inaugural Balls” thread. let me provide you with an excerpt:

    “If, however, we’re arguing that rape stats are our best indicator of which races find the other attractive (which is what I was actually driving at), it is again a no-contest. Disgusting warpigs like [Susan Crain Bakos]who Roissy took to pieces in his subsequent blog entitled “Black Men, White Women” can claim all day long that they prefer black men and are unattracted to white men all day long (lies skew data), so if we throw out her bullshit testimony along with the testimony of any and all people who willingly admit to dating interracially, we are left with a data set of people who have interracial sex forced upon them against their wills. Here, the people are admitting to something they’d rather not be admitting to, and have nothing to gain from it, i.e. no fragile warpig ego to protect like the aforementioned author. And in this data set, there is a lot more black on white sex going on than white on black. And by “a lot more” I mean somewhere in the neighborhood of 200x and probably climbing.

    there is your “experiment”. feel free to review the thread for the full scoop.

    judging from what you’ve previously written, I assume you’ll come back with typical “guilty white liberal” accusations that I’m a racist, but if you were to actually read what I’ve written, there’s nothing racist about it. I’m simply stating a fact that, in general, white men aren’t very attracted to black women. this is no more racist (i.e. not at all) than saying black men tend to be more masculine or attract more women from a broad spectrum of races than do white men.

    you earlier said that what I write is “bile”, presumably because it offends your pregnant, liberal sensibilities, but we’re here to discuss hard, sometimes uncomfortable truths, not wallow in political correctness like you seem wont to do. for all my disagreement with Obsidian, I at least have a tinge of grudging respect for him because he’s willing to talk about these things openly, misguided as I may perceive him to be. I’ve been in the military and have likely worked more closely with black friends under more perilous conditions than you probably ever have; I’ve managed a gay bar here in the city; and I’ve worked as a bouncer at a bar that has a predominatly black friday and saturday night. I’ve made friends in all these environments, so please spare me/us your default implications of racism and come with something real.

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  306. on February 20, 2009 at 1:18 am Obsidian

    Chuck,
    “Eric Holder”? You mean the Brotha that’s up for the AG spot in Obama’s White House? I guess so…but I don’t see the connection. Please explain?

    Oh! And in case Bill’s reading along, here’s a Black Sex Symbol for ya: Lela Rochon. Look at her features-they aint White.

    O

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  307. on February 20, 2009 at 1:24 am Sparks123

    Toccara certainly passes my “Would I hit it?” test, but she’s larger than my own (and I suspect most white males’) personal ideal of femininity. We’re just not ready for that jelly.

    For whatever reason, white men prefer diminutive women, which is why there are so many more white male – Asian female couples than white male – black female couples.

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  308. on February 20, 2009 at 1:37 am David Alexander

    Yea, a good point on Slayer.

    I stopped using his porn as an aid, and I’ve been unable to find his newest stuff since leaving Evil Angel, but when I need “classic” porn, his stuff is pretty decent. The second guy, Manuel Ferrara, is rather good, and seems to be able to deliver deep passionate scenes that seems like a bridge between the deep & long fucks of Slayer and the stuff typical of average white porn. Jules Jordan has high quality production values, but the fucking is so-so compared to the other two.

    If there’s anything to learn from porn, learn it from Slayer or Ferrara. Both are aggressive, yet passionate, and do so in a somewhat realistic and “controlled” manner. The girls seem enthralled with the experience, and it doesn’t reek of stuff that would be in line with “degradation”.

    Toccara is da bomb-and don’t get it twisted, if our White brothers could, they’d be all up in that, you best believe that

    If you’re into to chubby girls, she’s perfect…

    but she’s larger than my own (and I suspect most white males’) personal ideal of femininity

    At her height of 5’9, she’s more feminine than say, a skinny tall white girl. IMHO, skinny and petite make sense, but skinny and tall doesn’t, especially if flat-chested and flat assed. In contrast, short and fat usually don’t go together, but chubbier and fat works out better.

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  309. on February 20, 2009 at 1:37 am Obsidian

    Hey Sparks,
    Thank you for confirming what I’ve been saying all along: that most, not all by any means, but most White Men, if they could, would tear up “Black looking” Black Women like Toccara up. Now, would they walk down the aisle with her? Probably not. But that wasn’t the question to begin with. The question was whether White Men were sexually turned on by Black Women, and the answer is, obviously, YES.

    Anyway, you’re not a little guy, Sparks, you and Toccara would make a nice couple sizewise. The BEST Women I’ve ever had were those who had a good 3 or 4 inches on me in height. They remind me of my very first ride when I was 18-a 1975 Buick Electra 225 (aka Deuce & a Quarter, LOL). I’ve always been into cars that were built for comfort rather than speed. And I like my Women the same way.

    😉

    O

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  310. on February 20, 2009 at 1:38 am Chuck

    Bill:

    Read my post from 12:56 again. It’s not addressed to you.

    “Obsidian:

    Be careful. Your rhetoric is starting to make you sound like the black Willard Libby.

    First off, you use slave masters’ banging of black female slaves as evidence that white men are attracted to black women, but then you point out that men in general will stick their dick in anything that moves. You’re ignoring the fact, the sad fact, that white men had more and easier options with their black slaves than with white women. Master on slave sex was the easiest to obtain. If you want to truly address this issue you’d have to experiment with a situation where white men had an ability to choose equally from a pool of white and black women who were equal in “easiness.” Therefore, bringing the Jefferson and Stromond argument into the mix does nothing to advance your point.”

    I put the bile remark in mainly about Willard Libby but you by association before I read your comments. I assumed you were arguing in the same manner as Willard; with low-blows about race and stupid remarks. I don’t consider your arguments wholly racist and wouldn’t lump you in with Willard, although I do still disagree with the logic behind some of them.

    I have no desire to be PC. I agree with you, for myself and most white males, that we don’t generally find black women attractive, but I also realize that they don’t particularly find white men attractive either. I do agree with Obsidian that black women, if on the same socioeconomic level as white women, age more gracefully in all measures.

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  311. on February 20, 2009 at 1:43 am Chuck

    “They gotta grow some backbone for a change. Many of their problems stem directly from this. ”

    mixed with Holder’s statement that the U.S. is a nation of cowards for avoiding the issue of race relations.

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  312. on February 20, 2009 at 1:57 am Obsidian

    Who woulda guessed that me and Dave Alex would agree on anything? Wow.

    But yea man, what you’re saying wrt Slayer is on it. When I get the chance I’ll look into the other dudes you mentioned, to be frank I don’t watch porn much. But I’ll check it out.

    Obviously I can’t speak for the man, but it occurs to me that so many guys really don’t know what they’re doing w/Women, nor do they particularly care to either. For example, one would think that those guys who consider themselves into Game would study things like the Kama Sutra, or the Perfumed Garden, and so on. But, on the basis of how so many guys talk, this is not the case.
    Then we have this scourge-and that’s what I consider it to be-known as the Pump n Dump. I consider it such because in my view it goes against everything Seduction is all about. I’ll have more to say about this in due course.

    Needless to say that I specialize in repeat business so to speak. In fact if the chances aren’t relatively high that something longer term won’t come out of it I’m not usually interested. When I say I like to go “Long & Deep” on a Woman, I meant it.

    O

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  313. on February 20, 2009 at 2:06 am Kthulah

    Doug you believe whatever you like. It doesn’t change the history and really takes nothing from me.

    It’s just sad to see people so vested in their presumed superiority that the facts don’t matter to them. It smacks of the same self pity that causes people to cling to their victimhood.

    If you truly are on a quest for truth, one day you’ll find it.

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  314. on February 20, 2009 at 2:34 am dougjnn

    Kthulah

    “Doug you believe whatever you like. It doesn’t change the history and really takes nothing from me.”

    What are you talking about? White American men finding AmerIndians fly and not dumb in colonial times, when they wre away from censorious white women? Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    “It’s just sad to see people so vested in their presumed superiority that the facts don’t matter to them.”

    What bs. First of all I think all races, whether it’s the big numerous three, or a finer division, overlap hugely on most characteristics which vary among individuals. (Not on some like specific disease resistances or certain genetic neuronal disorders, obviously skin color and similar external markers, and others.)

    Then I always go with the facts, not what i want them to be.

    Then there are numerous areas in which the broad racial group I fall into doesn’t come out first.

    There is a tendency for it to come out happy medium, best overall. Best combo of brains and testoserone for example…

    Or so I think.

    (btw, according to the Department of Justice, blacks commit murder about 7 or 8 (depending on the year) times as frequently as whites per capita. All violent crime runs in the 4-8 times range more for blacks than whites – except interracial rape. That’s off the charts more often black men on white women versus the reverse. 1500 times as often if I recall correctly. I might not. But it’s like that. Just huge.)

    But the white leftist lead media doesn’t want you to hear any of this so you don’t. Neither do the civil servant feds. They do their stat work and don’t announce it. But it’s there.

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  315. on February 20, 2009 at 2:41 am dougjnn

    Kthulah-

    But you can have your own, different, view of what’s “best” overall. Doesn’t bother me in the least. Not gonna try to change your mind.

    If you try to convince me I’m nuts about what my views are, yeah then I might argue with you. No make that I WILL argue with you, if I still respect you.

    But I’ll be persuaded by evidence. Still, I’ll find a niche no matter what for my ego. And allow one for yours.

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  316. on February 20, 2009 at 2:49 am dougjnn

    Kthulah-

    On a more personal and self revelatory note K, what started me down this path on this thread, not were I usually go you’ll remember, is that it seemed to me that Obsedian was here, and increasingly recently, pounding an Afro American man superiority drum (in-all-things-this-blog-focuses-most-upon), and was extending that to the sistas he favors, and I was getting pretty irritated.

    Yeah, that’s real.

    Entirely real.

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  317. on February 20, 2009 at 3:05 am Kthulah

    Doug, I’m no big fan of the “leftist” media either. I live in Israel, hello.

    Like I said, if you want the truth, you’ll find it. The history isn’t all based on anecdotes, but also tax records and publications that were written by racist White people with no interest in promoting marxist leftist anything.

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  318. on February 20, 2009 at 3:09 am Anonymous

    But I’ll be persuaded by evidence.

    only if it supports your already-held conclusions

    To make the huge bias point clearer, just who do you think the black female slaves, now they hope ex slaves, escaping into the “underground railroad” leading them to northern American or Canadian states, felt they needed to please, or soon learned they did? Or once they had been settled, who do you think they felt they owed their freedom to?

    WOW, so if someone claiming a historic fact derives personal benefit from their claim, that creates a huge bias point making the claim unreliable? Incredible. so let’s see, studies show black men and white women nowadays don’t hook up because most of them mutually don’t find each other attractive. who do you think has the most to gain from saying that the actual reason is only because white men find black women unattractive, but not because of vice versa? why…WHITE MEN! so just like we can’t trust black female slaves on the matter you discuss, by your logic, we can’t trust you either because you’re a white man.

    also, who has the most to gain from saying white on black rape was overexaggerated and that most of it was consnsual and based on worship of the white man’s status? why whaddya know? WHITE MEN AGAIN! you just provided the logic to invalidate another one of your arguments again! thanks! who says we can’t ever agree? 😉

    also, I love how the fact that white slaveowners partook in black pussy when their white wives weren’t around proved nothing about them finding black women attractive, but you use that same argument of white men partaking in amerindian pussy when their white wives weren’t around as proof that they DID find Amerindian women attractive. You are just chock full of logical inconsistencies.

    and of course i’m sure since you discarded wholesale the evidence i provided from the meticulously researched slave histories by respected historians as just oral histories, second and thirdhand accounts (even though i’m sure you have zero idea of what those books actually cited as proof), you’ll admit that your amerindian claim is probably equally bunk, as i doubt your proof of that is any more scientific and reliable than what was used to construct the book i cited.

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  319. on February 20, 2009 at 3:31 am Obsidian

    Doug,
    In light of your recent comments, I feel compelled to respond.

    Never once have I ever said, that Black folks were inherently superior to Whites or anyone else; indeed, I have written constantly in favor of fostering amity and brotherhood w/my White Brothers, all the way up to the mock “conversation” I would have w/a White daughter and what she can expect from certain White Men based on my direct interaction with them.

    My more recenr comments were actually a response to the increasingly shrill and distasteful assaults on Black Women generally, and certain Black Women in this venue in particular, by certain voices in said forum, who happen to be White Males. It’s one thing not to prefer a particular type of Woman, all well and good. But its something else to constantly, relelentlessly denigrate said Women, especially members of said group who participate in this forum. Quite frankly, I grow increasingly irritated by the mean spirited and at turns, downright vicious assaults visited on Nicole and at times, Chic Noir, often having a racial slant to them. I’ve remained largely silent on the matter until now. And perhaps that was wrong of me to be silent for so long. But I really wish it would stop. It lends nothing useful in the least to the discussion, and quite frankly, beyond the obvious racial animus it gives aid and comfort to those who view Game as inherently Misogynistic, which I am most assuredly not and am perturbed by such a taint and association.

    Again, when Roissy mentioned his experience sexually w/a Black Woman I didn’t say a word, in fact if anything I supported him getting more actual experience w/Black Women so as to be able to be more factual than anecdotal in his posts.

    I think I’ve proven more than most here, to be very open minded when it comes to these matters, and my responses were more borne out of a desire to set some records straight than to further any more racial strife. There are disturbing voices here who wish to use as a billy club ideas such as race realism and evo-psych and even Game theory itself to advance their own notions of racial superiority, and quite frankly I think that puts a pall on this entire endeavor of Roissy’s. There’s something to be said for fostering a no holds barred discussion, and there’s also something to be said for allowing said venue to become the haven for thinly vieled racial assualts on groups and worse, individuals in our midst, who’s only “crime” is they happen to be Black and Female.

    I freely admit to a mischevious streak. I like sticking it to certain voices here, using their own so-called logic. They can’t have it both ways, if they’re going to play the race realism game. This venue is chockfull of Women contributors. Ask any of them, for example, whether it matters if a Woman’s attraction to a Man is important or not. Doesn’t matter how choosy that Man is, doesn’t matter how into that Woman he is; IF SHE AINT FEELING HIM, NOTHING HAPPENS.

    Period.

    Now, let me say this again. I actually have a degree of sympathy for some of my White Brothers; they exist in a rapidly changing world, one that shakes to the very foundations of all they’ve been taught and believe in. Contrary to the wailings of some, the truth is that many of them have a very difficult time accepting the very real changes our society is going through, and for the record I don’t like some of them. But the way they are handling it will only bring them more pain.

    No one who truly embraces Human Biodiversity would attempt to make the case that any one racial group has it all over all the others. In truth, each group has certain advantages and disadvantages, and of course, some groups have more one than the other in certain areas.

    O

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  320. on February 20, 2009 at 4:01 am Eman

    Re: Obsidian

    “WHERE DID ALL THE LIGHTSKINNED BLACK PEOPLE COME FROM?” & “White Men, historically speaking, have somehow found a way to suspend their supposed aversion for Black Women long enough, to grab em up by the ample hips, move them into position, and deposit enough DNA to where we now have millions of very fairskinned Black folks.”

    —

    I’d estimate that no more than 5% of Black women in the history of America was ever impregnated by a White man. Yes, we have millions of light-skinned Blacks NOW, in modern times, but they nearly all descend from a very few Blacks who were impregnated by Whites who existed back in the day.

    Your example is not a good one because you completely fail to take in to account the effect of population increases over time – for example, if one Black woman was impregnated by a White man 150 years ago or whatever that child theoretically has many thousands of ancestors by now, all of who have been lightened solely by that one Black woman who was impregnated by a White man a century and a half ago. Thus one mulatto from back in the 1800s has now become tens if not hundreds of thousands of lightened ancestors simply through natural population increases.

    Also, in more recent times urbanization has only increased the rate at which Blacks and Whites breed with each other – you’ll find FAR more of these light-skinned Blacks in the large coastal urban areas (plus Chicago) than anywhere else in the USA. Conversely, in many parts of the rural American South (especially the Deep South like Alabama, Mississippi, etc) you’ll still find many pure Blacks left who have zero White blood in them or so little that it is not even noticeable.

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  321. on February 20, 2009 at 4:09 am Obsidian

    Bill,
    I’m going to try to respond to few points you made or pointed to in your last post to me.

    First, have you seen Grace’s post where she cites studies on IR dating in financial terms? Very interestng results, and would like to get your views on it.

    Second, we’re going to have to agree to disagree on the Bakos/Heidi issue; you’re of the view that in the main, the *only* White Women Black Men can get are the dregs. I’m saying that the pallet is a lot broader, pardon the pun, than that and encompasses both Bakos and Heidi, and even Roissy has noted this in his thread dedicated to Bakos in this forum. Check it out.

    Third, again, Grace has offered a bit of historical evidence wrt America’s slavery past along the lines we’ve been debating. Check it out and holla back, please.

    Fourth, I think your trip to the Black hair salon proved that those Sistas were attracted to you, making your job easier; that you weren’t attracted to them, while not insignificant, isn’t the bottomline factor. The really hot chicks you have trouble with could very well be, because they were never attracted to you to begin with. That’s a tough pill for us guys to swallow, even as we’ve been kinda hardwired to deal w/rejection to an extent, but it still stings nonetheless. Female to Male attraction cannot be underestimated, Bill. Nine times outta ten the reason why you don’t get the girl is because of a profound lack of this. Period.

    Ok, holla

    O

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  322. on February 20, 2009 at 5:00 am Preserve White Western Civilization

    Re: alphadominance

    “We live in a melting pot.”

    You are a complete and utter fool for toying with ideas of which you have no understanding. People of White/European descent made America and Europe the beacons of culture, technology, and lawfulness which they are – these countries which they have built are a reflection of their ethnic/racial character; conversely, other countries are a reflection of the ethnic/racial character of those people, and those countries are worse in most respects. Once people of White/Euro descent are gone or mixed in to a sea of other groups all of what makes White America, Europe, Canada, Australia, and other White-majority countries great will likely evaporate.

    “It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if a hundred years from now we’re all a uniform shade of brown.”

    Multicultural/multiracial Brazil is the society you imagine for America, and that country is relatively unadvanced, corrupt, highly unequal, polluted, violent…the mixed-race majority of Brazil is ruled over by small elite classes of Whites, Asians, Jews, and some Arabs who have preserved their ethnic purity because it increases cohesiveness.

    “It is so prejudiced to think that you have to make some effort to maintain the “purity” of your race.”

    It’s not about purity or superiority, but about White racial and cultural preservation; people of Euro/White descent are only about 10% of the world’s population and declining; thus all of the brilliance of White culture in the last 500 years (technology, arts, invention, respect for law and order, etc) is on the verge of being lost forever in a sea of miscegenation and ceded to a bunch of groups who neither earned it through their own hard work or creativity – they just showed up to America or Europe and get to reap all of the benefits of White societies.

    “Eerily reminiscent of the Third Reich propaganda.”

    Yeah yeah yeah, Nazis are bad…yet no mention here of the hyperethnocentrism of some Asian groups like the Koreans, Japanese, or Chinese; or the racialism of La Raza; the ethnostate of Israel where miscegenation between ethnic Jews and non-Jews is illegal; the racial politics of Zimbabwe or South Africa; etc.

    You are an apologist for White extinction – fuck off.

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  323. on February 20, 2009 at 5:18 am jaakkeli

    For whatever reason, white men prefer diminutive women,

    WTF?

    which is why there are so many more white male – Asian female couples than white male – black female couples.

    Uh, don’t you think that’s rather because Asian men tend to be short? Women have an overwhelming preference for height. Men don’t seem to have any consistent preference. Some don’t want to be much larger, some do, and most don’t seem to care much at all.

    I’m about average north euro height (6’2″) but sturdy and almost all Asian women are far too small for my taste.

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  324. on February 20, 2009 at 7:37 am gig

    the mixed-race majority of Brazil is ruled over by small elite classes of Whites, Asians, Jews, and some Arabs who have preserved their ethnic purity because it increases cohesiveness

    there ain’t racial purity in Latin America. Hard-working, high-IQ but dark men get rich, marry white girls and their descendents, if they keep the good genes of the father and if the mother isn’t white trash, will maintain wealth and marry white also. Almost everyone in the upper classes, except jews and some newly arrived immigrants, has some african-amerindian ancestry, diluted by a much higher european ancestry

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  325. on February 20, 2009 at 11:53 am Obsidian

    You know, when discussions veer off into the whole line of reasoning that folks of Euro background(s) have to preserve themselves, they always seem to leave something out: who’s preventing them from fucking a lot and having babies? Surely them darkies aint.

    Comments?

    O

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  326. on February 20, 2009 at 11:57 am alphadominance

    Re: Preserve White Western Civilization

    You are a complete and utter fool for toying with ideas of which you have no understanding.
    I’m duly chastened by your superior logic of holding racial variation responsible for all the ills of the world. Quite a simplistic view. But then you seem to be the sort who views everything in terms of black and white (pun intended).

    other countries are a reflection of the ethnic/racial character of those people, and those countries are worse in most respects
    A legacy of colonialism; they face many of the same problems that countries of Eastern Europe do. When a populace ruled externally is cut loose they lack the institutions, or indeed the mindset and education to self-rule effectively and chaos takes over.

    relatively unadvanced, corrupt, highly unequal, polluted, violent
    Again, much of Eastern Europe and even Russia would fit this description and they are lily white.

    brilliance of White culture
    If you are an example of “the brilliance of white culture” it is not saying much.

    they just showed up to America or Europe and get to reap all of the benefits of White societies
    We welcomed them, and profited from them, and by and large we still do. By the way most of the whites here are recent immigrants too.

    yet no mention here of the hyperethnocentrism of some Asian groups like the Koreans, Japanese, or Chinese
    That comment was in response to a the question posed by another commenter asking why the Korean Americans care if their offspring intermarry, since there are plenty more Koreans in the homeland. My statement applies to all such xenophobes.

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  327. on February 20, 2009 at 1:03 pm MarkD

    “You know, when discussions veer off into the whole line of reasoning that folks of Euro background(s) have to preserve themselves, they always seem to leave something out: who’s preventing them from fucking a lot and having babies?”

    Well, I’m disqualified being married to a Japanese woman, but kids are expensive. I grew up in a big family and my three kids have far more than my siblings and I did. Dad was an engineer and earned above average, but definitely middle class money. We never lacked for health care or food, but I would bet that I ate in a restaurant far less than five times until I was on my own, for example. It was understood that if I wanted to go to college, I would pay for it all myself.

    I just don’t feel the racial purity thing at all. I don’t think I ever saw an Asian person when I was young. I certainly didn’t have yellow fever. When I got to Japan, I didn’t find the women especially attractive, at first. My preferences changed over time. Maybe I’m warped. But I’ve been back way longer than I was there and my preference has remained unchanged.

    The height thing is huge, btw. My wife is a foot shorter than I am and she says it is one of the reasons she married me. It never mattered to me (except in this one old coffee shop I used to go into where I’d whack my head on the sill every time I left becuse I’m not used to ducking, but that’s off topic.)

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  328. on February 20, 2009 at 1:57 pm Duke Leto Atredies

    Do you guys have this same argument in every thread?

    How many white men watch porn with black actresses? That has to be a very small niche market. Why are you so insistent that black women aren’t attracted to white men? Who gives a crap. Just compromise and say the disinterest goes both ways.

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  329. on February 20, 2009 at 5:47 pm Sara I

    Is this true, roissy? That you were married and have a kid? I thought it was a put on. Wow.

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  330. on February 20, 2009 at 7:50 pm Wounded Animal

    who’s preventing them from fucking a lot and having babies?

    They do fuck a lot. They just don’t have babies because, among other reasons, they are too mired in status games with other whites to look out for their group interest.

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  331. on February 20, 2009 at 11:39 pm Bill

    this is too good. I know a copy editor at Conde Nast (they publish GQ, Vogue, the New Yorker, among others); I’ll hit her up and see if she might have any sway in getting this published.

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  332. on February 21, 2009 at 12:12 am Bill

    that last post of mine was to Roissy wrt this particular blog. prolly should’ve clarified that.

    Obsidian: This venue is chockfull of Women contributors. Ask any of them, for example, whether it matters if a Woman’s attraction to a Man is important or not. Doesn’t matter how choosy that Man is, doesn’t matter how into that Woman he is; IF SHE AINT FEELING HIM, NOTHING HAPPENS.

    Period.
    WRONG WRONG WRONG! forgive me for poking fun–I’m honestly not trying to be a dick–but these sound like the words of a man who’s never seen a piece of ass he didn’t want to hit. all that does is reveal more about your standards than it does about true E.P.

    you said, “if she ain’t feeling him, nothing happens. period.” think of it this way: if she isn’t feeling him but he is feeling her, he could rape her, AND “IT” (i.e. sex) WOULD HAPPEN. I’m not talking about a man’s ability to physically overpower a woman here. I’m talking about sexual function and the necessity (or lack thereof) of a woman’s consent. a woman can be impregnated via rape, therefore her consent is not actually necessary in order to propagate the species; all that is required is the man’s desire to hit that ass.

    conversely, let’s say you have a female who’s interested in a man but the man ain’t feeling it. and let’s say this is in a universe where women can physically overpower men. even if she were to set upon him, because of the differences in male/female sexual function, if he’s not feeling her, her eggs will remain unseasoned, dry. the man’s desire is a necessary requirement for reproduction; the woman’s is not. no desire = no erection = no sex.

    I hate to make anyone who’s reading this envision rapes, but this is how we work sexually, when boiled down to the quintessence.

    now, granted, like I said before, most men will bang anything, so it might appear that women do all the choosing, but it’s just not the case. once a man is interested, and, provided he’s not a rapist, THEN the ball is in the woman’s court and she does the choosing. you keep skipping that first step, Obsidian.

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  333. on February 21, 2009 at 12:26 am Sara I

    For the sake of argument, let’s just say you WERE married and your wife put on the pounds after the baby was born. If she’d been smarter and more resourceful (like me) she would not have given up till she found the cause of her fatness and removed it. I can hear it now…the CAUSE? The cause was that she was a fucking pig! Sorry, but in my extremely humble opinion, there is 99.9% of the time an imbalance that was created from outside the body first.

    The opportunity for a yeast infection to take hold in a woman’s body is compounded further with pregnancy.

    I’m referring to systemic yeast which does not necessarily include a vaginal yeast infection. I had systemic yeast for about 20 years before it was diagnosed and my daughter got if from me through breast milk and many years later hers came back. We’ve both suffered a lot from this.

    http://www.steadyhealth.com/articles/Diagnosed_with_Candida_Infection__What_now__a230_f97.html

    It’s one of those exceeding widespread maladies that most M.D.s know very little about. Unless it manifests as oral thrush or a vaginal yeast infection. The systemic version is probably rarely tested for, but much more dangerous and debilitating. If your wife had a lot of gas after eating sugar or carbohydrates it was probably from candida.

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  334. on February 21, 2009 at 12:34 am Sara I

    Damn it to hell, I may have screwed when trying to post some brilliant information regarding one possible cause of obesity in women. Here’s the link:

    http://www.steadyhealth.com/articles/Diagnosed_with_Candida_Infection__What_now__a230_f97.html

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  335. on February 21, 2009 at 6:44 am Mason

    “who’s preventing them from fucking a lot and having babies? Surely them darkies aint.” — Obsidian

    ahahahaha, love it.

    BTW Obsidian, that was a well-worded and classy statement on the Jim Crow attitudes towards Chic and Nicole. My feelings exactly.

    I prefer a Central European phenotype for my women but can feel the love for those who look West African too. Case in point, the luscious Deserea:

    Ignoring the dreads: a tight body, beautiful facial structure, and one *killer* rack, especially considering she hasn’t been airbrushed. Like Emeril says — BAM!!

    Regarding the Red Meat vs. Lentils war above: bison, Iceland lamb, venison, elk, moulard duck, etc. are all “red meat” and low in saturated fat. The assumption that “red meat = saturated fat” is false. Even on American cattle, if you eat the properly cooked skinless shank or bottom round (as opposed to ribeye, brisket, etc) you’re eating a fairly low-fat cut.

    Speaking of juicy meat… (haha) steak lovers, take a look at this taste-test of gourmet steaks:

    http://steamykitchen.com/blog/2008/10/26/artisan-steak-tasting/

    If that doesn’t provoke salivation then you must be Hindu.

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  336. on February 21, 2009 at 1:01 pm Michael Blowhard

    The idea that saturated fat is a killer is wrong-wrong-wrong. Seriously. Check out Gary Taubes’ “Good Calories, Bad Calories.” Check out the DVD “Fat Head.” We’ve been misled about it for 40 years (or more) now.

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  337. on February 21, 2009 at 1:33 pm Anonymous

    Thus one mulatto from back in the 1800s has now become tens if not hundreds of thousands of lightened ancestors simply through natural population increases.

    huge gap in your reasoning: what you describe only would happen if that one mulatto from the 1800s and her offspring all only mated with other mulattos. If they mated with other full-blooded blacks, the offspring would not be hundreds of thoushands of other lightened ancestors, the lineage would move back toward darker skinned relatives. If your imaginary 1800s mulatto and her offspring mated with whites, they may just end up looking indistinguishable from whites. Too many unknown variables over a hundred-plus years of mating for you to make such a wild logical jump.

    i love how people on this site think really poorly reasoned thought experiments that leave out a majority of relevant variables somehow constitute “scientific proof.”

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  338. on February 21, 2009 at 1:35 pm Gunslingergregi

    must say on the woman doing the selecting thing. If a guy is not attracted to a woman his dick will not get hard hence no sex. If a woman is not attracted to a man it is not necessarily nothing happens period. She can still let the man have sex with her whether or not she is attracted she just has to take the fing. So men are in fact ultimately the choosers.

    But again it is all a moot point when anti missile systems are perfected along with robot armies none of this bs will matter. There will be one ethnic majority on earth. It probably will not be white or black or hispanic but asian. The japenese are the ones with the anime where the robot is kicking ass. That will be reality one day. Except in the future the robot will not miss.
    China already has plans to put a base on the moon within 10 years. Take away the predominately white nations nuclear weapons and there planes and long range missiles and basically whats left is rifles without scopes. Once this is taken away and a country develops capability on top of that to shoot people with no remorse at 4000 yards it is over.

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  339. on February 21, 2009 at 2:10 pm Anonymous

    must say on the woman doing the selecting thing. If a guy is not attracted to a woman his dick will not get hard hence no sex. If a woman is not attracted to a man it is not necessarily nothing happens period. She can still let the man have sex with her whether or not she is attracted she just has to take the fing. So men are in fact ultimately the choosers.

    what strained and bizarre sophistry. so men can’t get hard if they aren’t attracted to a woman? get real, every guy has some beast he fucked just because he could. if a guy gets caught in a horny mood and some chick grabs his cock, he’ll get hard. that’s why so many guys have ugly skeletons in their sexual closet.

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  340. on February 21, 2009 at 2:17 pm freak show

    Obsidian:
    Quite frankly, I grow increasingly irritated by the mean spirited and at turns, downright vicious assaults visited on Nicole and at times, Chic Noir, often having a racial slant to them. I’ve remained largely silent on the matter until now. And perhaps that was wrong of me to be silent for so long. But I really wish it would stop. It lends nothing useful in the least to the discussion, and quite frankly, beyond the obvious racial animus it gives aid and comfort to those who view Game as inherently Misogynistic, which I am most assuredly not and am perturbed by such a taint and association.

    i really don’t comment much wrt nicole or chic threads because i prefer to not feed trolls, and i don’t feel like making sense of what nicole or chic are clumsily trying to get across at times.

    however, from what limited i’ve read, i would ask you if you feel that the treatment they’ve received is more or less than the treatment sarah or dizzy (aka spungen from half sigma’s blog) consistently receive?

    most of the women who comment here, like dizzy, chic, nicole, and sarah have demonstrated serious inabilities at times to follow logical dialogue and a heavy tendency to rely on anecdotes and personal experience to ‘prove’ points. combine that with a haughty demeanor, and you get a lot of vitriol in response.

    one more thing, part of the reason chic and nicole engender potential racial animosity is due to occasionally bringing up race where it never needed to be mentioned. for example, often trying to ‘convince’ a less than receptive audience about how ‘hot’ certain black actors/actresses/models are.

    the above statements aren’t absolutes. you are probably right that some white nationalist types jump on chic and nicole purely b/c of their race and independent of any other factor. i don’t completely dispute that point.

    Again, when Roissy mentioned his experience sexually w/a Black Woman I didn’t say a word, in fact if anything I supported him getting more actual experience w/Black Women so as to be able to be more factual than anecdotal in his posts.

    sure, but having one sexual experience with a black chic and posting about it is different than if the blog more heavily discussed frequent interracial encounters like that.

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  341. on February 21, 2009 at 3:28 pm Obsidian

    Freak,
    I’ve often said that Game has given me a newfound respect and love, for Women. This is because I realize that all too often, they can’t help what they’re doing or why. To be upset or angry with them is like the misguided attempts of the feminists who give men a workout because they like porn.

    We all know that Women will often use anecdote over more objective debating points and the like, on average. So, why is it so hard for Men in a venue dedicated to understanding Women better, be so put out by this? Wouldn’t it be easier for everyone if said Men simply ignored said comments by said Women, and forged ahead with their comments?

    O

    LikeLike


  342. on February 21, 2009 at 4:58 pm Kthulah

    Freak show says, “one more thing, part of the reason chic and nicole engender potential racial animosity is due to occasionally bringing up race where it never needed to be mentioned. for example, often trying to ‘convince’ a less than receptive audience about how ‘hot’ certain black actors/actresses/models are.”

    Chic may do that, but I absolutely don’t.

    That people have preferences isn’t a problem for me, so long as they actually avoid those they don’t prefer, rather than presuming they have the inherent right to exploit them.

    I honestly wish that men who don’t think Black women are good enough would avoid us completely. So please, turn up the volume and say we’re hideous more often. That way the sheeple who are susceptible to mobthink will obey and keep their hands to themselves.

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  343. on February 21, 2009 at 6:40 pm Mason

    Michael,

    Couldn’t agree with you more on the fat-related nutritional propaganda.

    However there are many people (e.g. my parents) who are simply not going to change their minds on this matter until the new understanding is loudly embraced by the national news media, their healthcare nutritionists, their doctor, AND their friends and neighbors.

    The path of least resistance is noting that “low-fat red meat” is not an oxymoron.

    Additionally, high-fat cuts of red meat from American industrial beef, pork, and lamb are likely to carry the highest toxin/antibiotic residue — most industrial toxins are fat-soluble. Juicy cuts of boutique meat are a different story, of course.

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  344. on February 21, 2009 at 6:59 pm chic noir

    JLK
    America is a society full of highly insecure and depressed people. In addition, the food situation in America is atrocious – all unhealthy and bad foods are promoted and cheap while good healthy foods are expensive…it’s all upside down, and it is NOT like this in other countries; the food industry and medical complex WANT people to be fat, unhealthy, and unhappy because that means more money for them.
    I agree with this 100%

    anon@yahoo
    I won’t give Whole Foods a cent. They are liberal commie multi-culti symps.
    but they pay their workers a living wage.
    podunk That’s cool, though. I’ve got my own list of corporations I won’t abide.
    please list them

    tood Go to any no-frills (usually ethnic) grocery store. Fruits and vegetables are so cheap that you will hard pressed to eat more than $4/person/day worth.
    So true tood. I love it hit up the Chinese and Korean markets for fruit and vegetables. Latino markets are good for cheap beans, rice and can goods.

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  345. on February 21, 2009 at 7:15 pm chic noir

    dougjnn
    ummm…. make that
    that society in general, and SWPL women in particular feel that that wife in Marie Claire was far more justified than the married man that Roissy pretended to be whose wife got fat post marriage.

    Actually SWPL types will remain thin because they health focused and they are most often up for open marriages.

    Tood
    The myth that meat is the only source of protein is absurd, and a creation of the meat industry.
    You got that right. They are one powerful group with one hell of a lobby. Remember when they went after Oprah for exposing the crap that goes on in meat factories.

    Gannon
    I’m probably one of the few guys here who likes slightly chubby women, specially teen girls in the 22-25 BMI range.

    No johhny five and Mu are in the same boat. Some women look better with a little meat. I like America’s(ugly betty)& Kenya Moore’s bodies. If either of the two became too thin they faces would suffer.
    Look at how Jada P Smith has aged for an example of what being too thin can do to a woman’s face.

    Dave from Hawaii
    Tood – You’re more apt to get colon cancer from eating too many refined carbohydrates than you will from red meat.
    Yea that crap you buy in packs with one hundred ingredients the average person can’t understand. The type of carbs(complex) being pushed here are fruits,nuts and vegtables.

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  346. on February 21, 2009 at 7:27 pm chic noir

    Willard Black women have a higher rate of aging related issues of breast cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity and other pathologies.

    Not true Black women have a lower rate but when we develop breast cancer we tend to have a more aggressive form of the disease.
    AS for heart disease, diabetes, obesity if there are any continental Africans near you, take a minute to look at their women. Most don’t become as huge as the largest American women. I see so many 300lbs Black American women but few African women who weight as much. It’s like Americans (of all races) can’t stop spreading. That proves that there is something bad going on with our food, diets, and life style habits. It’s unusual to see an Ethiopian women shopping for herself in Lane Bryant.

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  347. on February 21, 2009 at 8:46 pm chic noir

    MB They often tend instead to be athletic, out-there, and uninhibited
    Actually, we are more inhibited. As a group we ain’t much into doing freaky stuff. It’s the stuff of comic gold for black comedians.
    Mick Jagger — who has probably had more women than the bunch of us commenters put together — was famous for having a taste for black women
    He has a daughter with a Black Opera singer. He told her to have an abortion and she told him hell no.

    Chuck but their socioeconomic level leads to other “preventable” diseases that cause the shorter life expectancy.
    Very true.
    Mu about the light-skinned Black folks thing. Some West Africans are fair and medium in complexion. The Ibos and Fulani for instance, are often light in complexion.

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  348. on February 21, 2009 at 8:46 pm chic noir

    Alpha d I thought we came here to get away from all the ethnic and religious strife.
    Bill where’s your data for the average dress size in this country being a 14? even if it’s true
    Bill, this is a well know fact published for the last ten years. The average American woman is also 5’4 and 167 pounds. You must have had your head in a hole not to know this.
    Mu I can’t think up any Black sex symbols w/broad noses, thick lips and the like, I freely admit that Bill-but,/i>
    Jill Marie Jones,channel iman, naomi campbell, and Alec Wek

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  349. on February 21, 2009 at 9:05 pm chic noir

    Mu Slayer by comparison does seem to care about the Women he works with. And yea I aint gonna front, being compared to the guy ain’t bad either
    Yea he makes “stuff” that women can watch. He is one of those guys who is well liked by women who like to watch movies. Mr. Marcus is also very popular. They don’t treat their costars like they hate them.

    And yup, Toccara is da bomb-and don’t get it twisted, if our White brothers could, they’d be all up in that, you best believe that.
    She has a very wide appeal among men. She gets a lot of hits on the net.
    Many of them are just too scared of what they peeps would think.
    I agree and it’s very beta to overly concern yourself with what other people think.
    Bill Obsidian,
    never thought I’d hear myself say this to you, but I think we might be finding some common ground here. but first, on a COMPLETE tangent: has Don King contributed to the economy?

    IIRC, Well a few years ago it was reported that one year he paid more taxes than any other American.
    Bill, Grace Jones was in a James Bond flick. She was a love interest.

    I used to get my hair braided once a month at a black hair salon. all the girls there quickly took a liking to me, I guess because they realized I wasn’t the typical “stuffy white person”
    DA fuck
    Bill was rocking cornrolls???
    um I need some more info

    LikeLike


  350. on February 21, 2009 at 9:34 pm David Alexander

    when we develop breast cancer we tend to have a more aggressive form of the disease

    That’s because darker skin prevents absorption of vitamin D which is an essential component for a healthy and functional immune system, and a part of one’s natural defenses for fighting cancer.

    I like America’s(ugly betty)& Kenya Moore’s bodies

    I wonder if guys are complaining about girls like that being “fat” or are we talking about women who are larger than that?

    Fun Question: Is she too fat? I think she’s just fine the way she is…

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  351. on February 21, 2009 at 9:49 pm chic noir

    Chic may do that, but I absolutely don’t.
    I don’t think I do this either. I post about a wide range of women from all racial backgrounds who I find attractive. Some are as pale as porcelain others as black as patent leather. I think I’m hardcore about the hourglass figure being most attractive. At the same time, I think the long and lean figure looks better in clothes(even men) sorry Vladimir 😦

    MU, Quite frankly, I grow increasingly irritated by the mean spirited and at turns, downright vicious assaults visited on Nicole and at times, Chic Noir, often having a racial slant to them.
    Thanks Mu, a gentleman is always appreciated.
    beyond the obvious racial animus it gives aid and comfort to those who view Game as inherently Misogynistic,
    Very true, many women view game as hate filled way of thinking and acting used by men to pump and dump women.
    Ask any of them, for example, whether it matters if a Woman’s attraction to a Man is important or not.
    Very important
    anon Multicultural/multiracial Brazil is the society you imagine for America, and that country is relatively unadvanced, corrupt, highly unequalpolluted, violent
    I hope that means you are against because it not, you are full of it.
    Wounded aninmal They do fuck a lot. They just don’t have babies because, among other reasons, they are too mired in status games with other whites to look out for their group interest.
    My dear the status games go on in any society where you have new money. Read about the nouveaux riches in China,Russa, and the Ukraine for more info. They are manifesting the same behaviors as any of the rappers on MTV cribs.

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  352. on February 21, 2009 at 9:50 pm chic noir

    freak showmost of the women who comment here, like dizzy, chic, nicole, and sarah have demonstrated serious inabilities at times to follow logical dialogue and a heavy tendency to rely on anecdotes and personal experience to ‘prove’ points.

    This may have to do more with the female way of reasoning.

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  353. on February 21, 2009 at 9:52 pm Bhetti B

    Usually Lurking: Yeah, it’s a personal association rather than one I want everyone to adopt. I’ve just been exposed to too many crazy chicks (and guys) who’re obsessed with being ‘thin’ in a harmful way.

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  354. on February 22, 2009 at 1:34 pm roissy

    weird fetish troll:
    Fun Question:

    i repeat: no it’s not.

    Is she too fat?

    she’s a heifer. as i’ve said before, you have no taste, so your opinion of what constitutes an attractive woman should not be taken seriously by anyone.

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  355. on February 22, 2009 at 2:10 pm Michael Blowhard

    Mason — All great points.

    Chic — “MB They often tend instead to be athletic, out-there, and uninhibited
    Actually, we are more inhibited. As a group we ain’t much into doing freaky stuff. It’s the stuff of comic gold for black comedians.”

    I should have said that the self-presentation styles (not the fucking styles) of black women can often look athletic, out-there and uninhibited. Whiteguyz who for whatever reason expect women to be coy or recessive can find that offputting. (Some guys on the other hand react by going, Yeehah! Now that’s sexy!) Yeah, I’ve heard that black ladies are often surprisingly conventional in what they’ll do in bed. Why is that?

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  356. on February 22, 2009 at 2:16 pm Keith

    “she’s a heifer. as i’ve said before, you have no taste, so your opinion of what constitutes an attractive woman should not be taken seriously by anyone.”

    Nobody’s opinion should be taken seriously by anyone in these matters. Sure, there’s a lot of agreement on what’s attractive because beauty has strong objective components, but I still don’t give a shit what others think on beauty or what others think about a given woman. I only care what I think, because, after all, it’s my nerve endings we’re talking about here. If we happen to agree a lot because beauty has strong objective elements, then it’s still irrelevant. Heck, if someone’s tastes are outside the norm, then that person is blessed because they have more selection that fits their taste.

    Even if I have exactly the same taste in women as another guy, I still don’t give a shit what he think, and I see no reason why I should (my only exception; if he’s sober and I’m drunk, I might use another guy as a reality check). If I did care what other guys thought, then I care more about some lame-ass status bullshit than my own actual pleasure. I outgrew that long ago.

    Second, beautiful and sexy overlap a lot, but they aren’t identical. I can find a woman very attractive and still not sexy. For example, that chick on the bridge in the photo contest was sorta cute in a girlish way but didn’t have much erotic appeal in my book. But if some other guy goes for her, I wouldn’t judge him. He’s likely a little low-T and maybe has some latent homosexual tendencies to feel sexual attraction to a woman with such low dimorphism, but he can’t help that and I don’t judge. For me, a waist to hip ratio around .7 goes a longer way than anything else on the ol’ blood flow scale, beating a lot of other components of “beauty”.

    Guys who care too much about what other guys think about female beauty are total zeroes, substituting others’ judgments for their own enjoyment. Lame. Plus, they’re unmanly, not just wanting what they want in the moment. Why substitute social cues for your own enjoyment?

    Kenya Moore a “heifer”? Then call me a fatty-fucker.

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  357. on February 22, 2009 at 2:56 pm roissy

    fatty fucker:
    Guys who care too much about what other guys think about female beauty are total zeroes, substituting others’ judgments for their own enjoyment. Lame. Plus, they’re unmanly, not just wanting what they want in the moment. Why substitute social cues for your own enjoyment?

    so you’re saying you bang fatties and warpigs.
    good to know.

    Kenya Moore a “heifer”?

    kenya moore is not a heifer. i was referring to the pic DA posted.

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  358. on February 22, 2009 at 3:04 pm Keith

    “so you’re saying you bang fatties and warpigs.
    good to know.”

    And you bang women who remind you of the twelve-year old boys you secretly desire. Good to know.

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  359. on February 22, 2009 at 3:14 pm Maria

    Just because he recognized this fat girl as, well, a fat girl that doesn’t mean he likes “twelve-year old boys” type…
    Hopefully there’s a good, slender, slightly curvacious middle term. Yes, there are middle terms…

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  360. on February 22, 2009 at 3:48 pm roissy

    fatty fucker keith who is ashamed to admit it:
    And you bang women who remind you of the twelve-year old boys you secretly desire.

    to a fatty fucker such as yourself, yes, i suppose women of normal weight and attractive shape would look like 12 year old boys.
    carry on, pig porker.

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  361. on February 22, 2009 at 5:07 pm Keith

    You’re the one who chose Keira Knightly, whose WHR (0.84) is closer to the male ideal than the female ideal. You chose her over a woman whose WHR (0.65) is within the ideal range.

    Enjoy your transsexual prostitutes.

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  362. on February 22, 2009 at 5:56 pm chic noir

    MB Yeah, I’ve heard that black ladies are often surprisingly conventional in what they’ll do in bed. Why is that?

    Largely cultural, African women are often the same way. You are kind of taught that some things are not for us as young teen girl. You know positioning and stuff varies from culture to culture. I’ve read that Muslims and Indians are into the mouth stuff.
    Personally, I just don’t find the more perverse acts interesting. I find them a complete and utter turnoff.

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  363. on February 23, 2009 at 2:36 pm Kthulah

    Roissy and Keith, you’re both thought policing, which is silly. Natural selection is a good thing. Accept it, and be at peace with one another.

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  364. on February 25, 2009 at 7:50 pm dougjnn

    Kthulah

    “Roissy and Keith, you’re both thought policing, which is silly. Natural selection is a good thing. Accept it, and be at peace with one another.”

    You keep surprising me. Which interests me.

    What induced you to go to Israel? I imagine it was connected to a man, but that’s no easy solution to the Q either. But having read you, possibly it wasn’t. US military? But no bases in Israel, despite massive support. Not people support. Mostly. But at the margin?

    Curious and friendly.

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  365. on February 27, 2009 at 12:21 pm February 2009 Comment Winner « Roissy in DC

    […] confirms her status as a delusional superfreak whose opinions on human sexual dynamics are useful only for mocking: […]

    LikeLike


  366. on March 5, 2009 at 12:29 pm Wed Man Walking « Roissy in DC

    […] evidence is clear. Your best bet as a man is to NOT GET MARRIED. JUST SAY NO. DON”T DO IT. ARE YOU […]

    LikeLike


  367. on April 1, 2009 at 5:24 am One Piece Of My Life

    Exellent post. You got some really good points there. Thanks for sharing.http://www.onepieceofmylife.com

    LikeLike


  368. on April 20, 2009 at 11:16 am Your Gay Doom « Roissy in DC

    […] be seeing a lot more of this in the coming decades as the culture shifts to de facto polygamy. Bitter divorcees, cougars, single moms, urban slut machines, aging yentas, used up playettes, trend whores and […]

    LikeLike


  369. on June 29, 2009 at 2:39 pm connie smit

    I have a degree in sports training. when I met my husband he was slim; we have 2 children together and life got busy. He was never as sports minded or as active as I was and he got a little overweight. I encouraged him to join a gym but he didn’t play with the kids, ride bikes with them, throw balls, nothing. I was not overweight — 5’4″ and 127 lbs.
    And then menopause hit! At the same time my husband became obsessed with his career; he became more and more controlling and more demanding of the kids.
    His doctor finally told him to lose the weight or get on the meds.
    He did take off 25 lbs, but he kept on dieting and dieting. He became obsessive about it and was only eating about 1100 calories a day. He would blow up at the kids; not talk to me; not have sex with me.
    I put on 30 lbs (as most women do in menopause)
    During a fight, he told me that I was not only fat; I was too fat; that he couldn’t look at me and I was in denial about my health. He then walked out and I didn’t hear from him for 8 days. I lawyered up.
    He came home and things have been okay.
    I lost 27 lbs during a month, mostly because I wasn’t so stressed out with him around.
    I like being thin, but this time around I will do it for myself because I’m not sure that this guy is going to be around me for very long.

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  370. on August 14, 2009 at 12:33 pm Relationship Game Week: A Reader’s Journey « Roissy in DC

    […] infected. And with half your money. So if you’re gonna get married (and don’t say I didn’t warn you), you had better have a handle on women’s psychological natures. And a good […]

    LikeLike


  371. on September 22, 2009 at 8:48 pm Matilda Tuesday

    There really are so many people who are suffering in similar situations. We get them everyday on our little myfatspouse.org forum. Thanks for sharing this story! I’ll be sure to post a link!

    LikeLike


  372. on September 24, 2009 at 12:58 pm The Conventional Wisdom « Roissy in DC

    […] what? To fatten her up? 2 for […]

    LikeLike


  373. on September 27, 2009 at 2:14 am Andre Breton

    You satirized that heartless article* by an supposed “alpha” female, but I suspect her article was just as much a fiction as yours….

    But the sad truth is: if women complain that their brow-beaten baby-wearing “hubby” has lost his sex appeal, it’s all about “self-esteem” and “empowering yourself” and “you go girl”.

    But if men complain that their wives have become slovenly, fat, and boring, it’s ‘misogynist” and “you should just love her for who she is” and “you’re a sexist pig.”

    That’s why your dumb satire is popular.

    *http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/articlemc.aspx?cp-documentid=8319151

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  374. on September 28, 2009 at 8:06 am Chunk

    I don’t care about being a beta. I don’t care about never getting any poon; my standards are too high for the real world anyway. I don’t care about never being with a woman; most women’s personalities are filled with piss and vitriol, as the Marie Claire piece clearly demonstrates.

    What I hate is the way you can recognize something so negative about our collective natures, and then revel in it. Intelligent beings existing only for themselves. All the vag in the world would not convince me to take such a solipsistic view. As I pulled the strings on the hapless body I’ve taken an interest in, using her for my pleasure with an intent to toss her away the moment she no longer pleases me, I’d know that I had internalized everything I hate. I’d loathe myself, and seriously consider suicide.

    But through all of this you’re honest. This is the world you really believe in. I see in you someone who might have been hurt by women before, and so see no value in them. I believe, since you take the time to stomp on feelings whenever you recognize them rather than logically ignoring or overlooking them, that you do, or did at one point, have a side that was not totally immune to emotion. You may have even nurtured a desire to see the best that human nature had to offer. But you’ve completely given that up for momentary shallow pleasure.

    I hope the technological singularity comes soon. Though it’ll probably stabilize into something that’s still based on the despicable natural laws of selfishness, for a time we’ll all be able to rewrite our natures at will. I will be one of the first to learn that, and I’ll re-wire everyone I meet to have the capacity to be a decent human being.

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  375. on October 9, 2009 at 3:29 pm me

    your a fucking prick! you leaving your fat wife, thats so shallow. wait until god says” oh geeeesszz…i don’t know.
    you seem nice, should i let you in the pearly gates, maybe hell is a better palce for you. your assholeness makes you seem less attractive”. stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

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  376. on November 20, 2009 at 8:51 pm Nutz

    Satire or not, it pretty much described what happened to my ex and I, namely her gaining 40lbs and saying that’s who she really is. All that was missing was the fights over the bills and her frivolous spending.

    Yes, this shit is a two way street. And props to Roissy for hitting a grand slam in pointing that out.

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  377. on November 22, 2009 at 8:22 pm Moped

    You know the problem is with your first wife. She’s a moped. Sex with a fat chick is like riding a moped, it is fun until your friends see you.

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  378. on November 30, 2009 at 11:59 am DF

    The older I get the more I can see that a multitude of self centered dolts are out there breeding. What makes matters worse is that they are waving their selfishness around for the entire world to see. Apparently people like the owner of this blog feel there is nothing wrong with being totally self absorbed and then have the audacity to be indignant when sensible individuals criticize them for being self centered assholes. Roissy is a prime example of how many in our society value nothing of substance and exist only to serve them selves. Where this kind of thinking comes from I know not; it is alien and foreign to those of us who are grounded in a value system that puts the needs of our significant others on an equal footing with that of our own. Destroying a gift that exists in a family relationship over weight gain and how it affects your sex life and personal image is a supreme act of egocentric selfishness like no other. Worrying about what others think of your fat wife shows that you yourself are insecure and that you have no confidence in your personal or professional abilities. Men who seek trophy wives simply to impress others or are too damned caught up in themselves to see people for what they are and in the end are the real losers in life. I pity people like you who can throw away a spouse and mother of your children for such shallow and immature reasons, you truly will never understand the meaning of love and family. I also pity the next woman who falls unwittingly into your world of selfishness and uncontrollable desire to place your own needs ahead of everything else. The only saving grace in this stomach turning mess is that your ex-wife she is far better off without a self-serving reprobate such as you. Hopefully she will know better next time and look before she makes the same mistake.

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  379. on December 14, 2009 at 7:19 pm ThatGuy

    Whether or not you were serious… this happened to me. Except in the legal profession.

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  380. on December 22, 2009 at 11:21 am forum lurker

    I just wanted to say that I keep this bookmarked on my browser tabs. Whenever a girl needs to check train schedules, weather, etc, it’s nice having the title “Why I left my fat wife” plainly posted at the top of the screen.

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  381. on January 1, 2010 at 1:26 pm Jeffrey of Troy

    I don’t know why even the readers of this blog don’t seem to get it about the original article (“Beta Husband”); she didn’t leave him for being beta – her new guy is beta, and she couldn’t be happier/more attracted.

    The issue is feminism. She said she wanted a husband “just like her” (= homosexuality), she is career-minded/ambitious/bread-winner (the man’s role – what feminism teaches wymyn they SHOULD want). She left him because he was UNHAPPY in the woman’s role, not because he was beta. She likes the new guy because he’s happy to be her little bitch. She’s the man and he’s the woman.

    Feminism is NOT “women’s rights”. Maybe in the 1800’s/early 1900’s, but not since 1965. “Third Wave Feminism” is 100% an attack on healthy heterosexuality. (“Stop giving away your power” , dropping context = psychological warfare.)

    Re: why 2/3’s of Americans are fat: apparently some people need a certain amount of repetition. READ GARY TAUBES’ BOOK “GOOD CALORIES BAD CALORIES”. It is a science book not a diet book. In it he proves that the primary cause of the obesity epidemic is, by far, the huge increase in refined grains and sugar. Not meat. Not fat. Not candida.

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  382. on March 16, 2010 at 12:14 pm I Give Girl Game Advice To A Girl Newly Arrived In The City « Roissy in DC

    […] Don’t get fat. […]

    LikeLike


  383. on March 16, 2010 at 12:33 pm Jim-Brad

    Dude,if you’ve got a cool job,WHY DID YOU HAVE A FAT WIFE??????

    LikeLike


  384. on March 16, 2010 at 5:46 pm John

    What DF said.

    Now, I’m a guy, and I understand that one might dally with the comely models with whom one might be fortunate enough to work. But a gentleman doesn’t desert his wife and child ’cause the wife is getting plump or saggy or whatever. There’s nothing “Alpha” about that. In fact, it’s for just this situation that child support and alimony laws were originally enacted, even though they’ve been abused by thieving Jezebels since.

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  385. on March 16, 2010 at 6:00 pm The realist

    lol @john. Mate did you not get the whole point of the post. Roissy didnt actually do that, it was a parody of another article about a woman ditching her stay at home dad husband.

    Also are you stupid? Similar laws have existed for a long time. The current trend of alimony and child support is very much a recent phenomena. Believe it or not, before the sexual revolution and feminism there weren’t very many divorces full stop. How many shotgun weddings have you heard of recently?

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  386. on March 17, 2010 at 9:30 am John

    Realist-

    No, I didn’t get the parody aspect of the post until after I read the the comments…I guess that’s the problem with reading a post so long after-the-fact-the original context is lost.

    I’m completely aware that “the current trend of alimony and child support is very much a recent phenomena [sic],” but I don’t think that observation is inconsistent with my point, which was that the same laws that now serve to provide windfalls for cheating sluts once had the purpose of protecting women and children from desertion.

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  387. on April 6, 2010 at 10:03 pm matilda tuesday

    I’m still not sure if this really is a parody.

    LikeLike


  388. on June 14, 2010 at 6:41 pm in the know

    Amen brother!

    LikeLike


  389. on December 29, 2010 at 6:09 pm Anonymous

    Great…..absolutely great….story of my life….without the divorce to this point.

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  390. on January 12, 2011 at 3:24 pm Visual Proof Of How Marriage Destroys Women « Citizen Renegade

    […] sad photos above remind me of the time I dumped my wife for getting fat. I do hope she has managed to carry on without […]

    LikeLike


  391. on January 12, 2011 at 10:04 pm Gramps

    Obsidian:
    Regarding all those light skinned black people.

    You might research this. They can distinguish African and European Y chromosomes, and thus, in examining American blacks, determine how many have a white male ancestor. The answer is, very few, perhaps one or two percent, max.

    Except in New Orleans (before katrina). It is much higher. There, it was about 10%. Their male ancestors were French planters who fled the white genocide in Haiti in 1801 with their black wives. (Haiti has been happily free of white influence, mostly, since 1801.) Their children were wealthy and educated, and never were slaves, even in the deep South (New Orleans.)

    Indeed, I am surprised how few American blacks have European Y chromosomes, but, unless you think that European Y chromosomes are at a disadvantage to African Y chromosomes, there was not all that rape and stuff they imagine to have happened. Turns out the slaves had rights, too. And think, a black child born on a plantation was a slave. Maybe not many white men wanted their children to be slaves.

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  392. on January 12, 2011 at 10:21 pm Gramps

    DF:

    The women I meet are the ones who are self absorbed and utterly amoral. Most women don’t deserve a good husband. Men are too driven by their testosterone to clearly think things through. Family law is very biased against men. Imagine if men began to behave in the same calculating fashion as women. Actually, you don’t have to imagine. The revolution is already here. Look around. Who do you think is behind the trend of fewer marriages, men or women?

    Anyway, men treat women the way they demand to be treated. If women behave in a “loose” fashion, even if “only” with other men, they regard them as “sluts” and not fit for a long term commitment. Guys like Roissy would never get any pussy if women were virtuous.

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  393. on January 13, 2011 at 11:28 pm Phil D

    New roissy maxim:
    To alphas, sex is the heart of a healthy relationship. Let it die your love for her will go with it

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  394. on January 15, 2011 at 1:04 pm Phoenix

    My mother works at the marriage bureau for our city.
    She shared some stories with the family the other night (family came back together because my grandpa died, rest in peace)…

    “This 65-year-old disabled guy in a wheelchair got his marriage licence with a 25 year old girl. They were just married for a week when she flat out left him and ran away. He called the office asking me what he can do.”

    “A 60-year-old man who’s retired came into the room today, with a 23-year-old female. She was on something because her head was twitching a bit. At one point he asked her ‘Are you sure you want to do this?’ I was baffled but alas, since she wasn’t drunk or intoxicated, I just took the information down and provided them with further details of the process.”

    I’m going to get more from her, but my god, this is the way it is in our county.

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  395. on January 18, 2011 at 12:42 pm Kralizec

    “Colin Bowel” said, “Nothing is more beta than raising another man’s child.” I wonder what tends to lead to greater satisfaction in the act and afterward, a man’s bringing up an intelligent, beautiful, healthy child, irrespective of the child’s parentage, or his bringing up a child of mediocre intelligence, beauty, and health who happens to have been fathered by his own seed. It seems likely the answers given will vary according to the character of the answerers. In any case, I am not so “beta” as to prefer whatever may be yours to whatever may be best, nor so “beta” as to honor your preference for your own.

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  396. on January 18, 2011 at 12:49 pm Kralizec

    “Phil D” said, “New roissy maxim: To alphas, sex is the heart of a healthy relationship. Let it die your love for her will go with it.” In the suffocatingly narrow terms of “alpha” and “beta,” which I’ll use for a laugh, I wonder whether holding forth on one’s hedonic calculus in that way is itself alpha or beta.

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  397. on January 20, 2011 at 11:24 am dontmarry

    Roissy, you were a dumbass to marry at all.

    No matter how hot a woman is, understand these:

    1) Time is not on her side in the looks department.

    2) You should not shortchange yourself by settling with one vagina.

    3) You don’t have to marry to get laid.

    And her wit, intelligence, sense of humor? I couldn’t care less. I only care how you look on a scale of 1 to 10. Inner beauty is wasted on a piece of meat.

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  398. on January 24, 2011 at 10:52 pm Dan

    I have a different story with a happier ending. My girlfriend was slim but started putting on weight in college. She was never fat, but she liked to eat and became “pleasantly plump.” I found her more attractive this way, but 6months before our wedding, she went on a crash diet and lost 30 pounds to fit in to her size 2 wedding dress.

    Since the wedding, I have been tempting her with all the foods I know she loves and encouraging her to eat whatever she wants. In the 10 years we’ve been together, she has swollen up like a big water balloon and now looks like a candidate for “The Biggest Loser.” But that’s OK with me.

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  399. on March 5, 2011 at 7:43 pm Ian

    Good on you .

    I just don’t have the guts to leave mine

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  400. on March 21, 2011 at 5:53 pm Nice

    Nice parody Roissy. My Russian friend (a natural and alpha) often tells me how the ladies in his home country are all gorgeous and attractive because they understand what femininity means, aren’t feminists, and work to stay slim and satisfy their man sexually. Because that’s what a man wants, a hot girl, slim, fun in bed, and submissive. Just like a woman wants a strong, commanding man, wittier and better than the others.

    I’m maybe mediocre at dating, but I got into this PUA stuff recently basically because I want to be more masculine and respect myself. I’ve got a great career, have a lot to offer, don’t want to settle. Got left by my ex after a five year relationship and brief marriage and divorce, for basically being too beta. She was starting to get fat, not gross yet, but still.

    I see maybe half of American women becoming not hot, not slim, and not wanting to be fun in bed, which is not at all what I want. That’s like a man becoming a thin wuss, overly geeky, jobless, and playing World of Warcraft all day long. Of course any girl with any sense at all would leave that shit. Guys should be proud to say they would do the same, and are not settling.

    My parents are nearing 60, in great shape, what an inspiration! All the people who say you get fat and witless as you age can go get bent. Feminists can get bent. Everyone pursues what they want. It’s marketing. That’s all game is — telling a woman you will give her what she wants. No one wants the fat girl with oodles of depression who adopted feminism and tried to manipulate her man by closing her pussy. No one wants a pussy man. Fuck that shit, have some fucking self respect.

    Bench a lot, shoot some guns, pick up sluts at the bar, run game on women you think are “above you” to improve your game, get some tattoos, tell women to do what you want, don’t ask permission, don’t lose your cool, dominate at your career, speak confidently and clearly, let the woman fall in love first, don’t make way for others. I understand this shit now, it’s about much more than women. It’s about self respect, it’s about having a life answerable to your own happiness, not that of some delusional “politically correct” group of spinsters who infected the system giving it all the joy and sexiness of Ken Kesey’s “happy” mental asylum.

    Paraphrasing Ayn Rand, I will never live for the sake of another woman’s happiness. It is my life and I will live it for myself.

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  401. on March 28, 2011 at 4:16 am wootz

    “I understood why he walked off so abruptly. My boss may be friendly, but he’s also a winner, and winners avoid fraternizing with losers.”

    This can hardly be overemphasized. I wish you’d devote an entire post on this.

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  402. on April 13, 2011 at 11:12 am Jonathan Manor

    Finally, I figure out what Roissy does.

    I’m so sorry this happened though. Women who continue to gain weight is terrible. I feel so bad for what I lost in my last girlfriend, I never saw a bag of cheetos, or cookies, or any type of fattening food that would make her plumpy. It was always kashi cereal, home made wine, and tomatoes and sweet potatoes. It’s so cute when women eat salad. Sorry to hear about this.

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