When she says:
I feel like you know everything about me, but I know nothing about you.
you’re on the right track. She is interested in you enough to want a two-way information stream. She’s begging for a connection. A girl has not escalated to Code Tingling Pussy interest level until she starts asking you questions about yourself.
(The Code Interest levels are:
- Code Snapped Shut Pussy
- Code Desiccated Pussy
- Code Semi-arid Pussy
- Code Mexican Border Virtual Fence Pussy
- Code Tingling Pussy
- Code Electrified Pussy
- Code Moist Pussy
- Code Open Faucet Pussy
- Code Deluge Pussy
- Code Explosive Hydropower Pussy)
When you hear the above line from a girl on a first date, know that you’ve done the following things right:
- remained an elusive mystery
- did not give away the store to try to win her approval
- have intrigued her just enough to cause her subconscious to spit forth her true feelings
- have made her feel comfortable revealing herself to you
Once you hear this from your date, do not clamp down on the “beta bait” and start reeling off factoids about yourself in an effort to appease the gods watching over her pussy. The best thing to say in response is something along the lines of:
Totally untrue. [raise an eyebrow and smile] I told you that I’m a dog person.
She’ll get the joke, and her Code Electrified Pussy will thank you for not failing her shit test.
Eventually, you will have to tell her about yourself in order to manufacture build a genuine rapport. Even the coolest laconic cats leaned back deep into the couch find the right time to mutter a few choice teasers about themselves. If your girl is saying she doesn’t know anything about you on the second date, you’ve pushed your tight-lipped act too far. Mystery can turn to slippery evasion can morph to suspicious secrecy and finally gel into dull lump with nothing to say in her mind within the span of an hour.
Like all good seductions, what you don’t say is as important as what you say, and impeccable timing is the intangible skill that separates the professional from the amateur.
agreed. girls love mystery.
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Out of curiosity; do you ever find it annoying or just plain tiring playing a character for an entire relationship? Or is it always fun?
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it’s times like these that you have to ask yourself, “WWDDD (what would don draper do)?”
the answer: obfuscate by saying nothing.
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Out of curiosity; do you ever find it annoying or just plain tiring playing a character for an entire relationship? Or is it always fun?
Out of curiosity; do you ever find it annoying or just plain tiring taking showers, getting haircuts, shaving, chewing food with your mouth closed, and speaking proper English for an entire lifetime? Or is it always fun?
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pa,
From the way Roissy writes, it seems “game” can take lots of practice, planning, and analysis. I like chess, but I wouldn’t want to play it nonstop for months.
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So then Josh don’t do it. Do whatever it is you think that will work for you and shut the fuck up, because we don’t care what it is.
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The premise of Game is that noting in this world is unconditional, including a woman’s attraction and love. That is why men, in order to be more successful with women, should enhance their natural attributes with forms of behavior that trigger womens’ natural attraction mechanisms.
Game does take practice, but with practice, it becomes second nature. The reason I made the shower & shave analogy is because Game isn’t about remaking yourself into a different person (in that case I would have used a steroids & plastic surgery analogy) but about developing your own existing but neglected good attributes.
Game may seem like a brand new concept and the packaging of it certainly is new. But in essence, Game is as old as humanity; except in the past it was called “acting like a man.”
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Delightful Code designations this time around. Keeping an air of mystery is something I’m working pretty hard at.
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Colin,
I’m fucking asking, not judging.
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The Code Interest levels are:
Code Snapped Shut Pussy
Code Desiccated Pussy
Code Semi-arid Pussy
Code Mexican Border Virtual Fence Pussy
Code Tingling Pussy
Code Electrified Pussy
Code Moist Pussy
Code Open Faucet Pussy
Code Deluge Pussy
Code Explosive Hydropower Pussy
And at the very top of the list”
Code Surrounded by GNP Pussy.
Peter
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Josh, you may be overlooking something about the nature of the mind, and the nature of practice through repetition. (Many people make this mistake, unless they have studied a musical instrument, or a martial art, or something similar.) Here’s the key insight: the longer you mindfully repeat something with good form, the more that behavior becomes automated. Watch a virtuoso guitarist: there is a lot of subtlety going – far too much for the performer to be constantly paying conscious attention to. Most of what you see is actually automatic, with the musician in a state of ‘flow’.
This is actually a property of the mind that you can use in many endeavors. Once you internalize some principle through a brief period of deliberate practice, the cognitive load that it places on you is reduced.
So Roissy doesn’t need to constantly be playing some character that isn’t him. Rather, he has deliberately molded his actual character over time so that the person he’s being is actually himself. (And this is very important because women are extremely good detectors of congruency!)
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Josh, have you ever played the character of “responsible employee” for an entire relationship with an employer, from your first interview through the time you resign or are fired? This character requires certain patterns of dress and behavior that at first seem unnatural, but in time become second nature, and require no further planning or analysis. Some people find playing this character too annoying or too difficult to sustain – you’ll see them sleeping on the ground outside the metro stop – but most people accept the reality that playing this character is the price one pays for the desired outcome of continued employment. If you don’t understand this reality, it automatically operates against you, and other people get the job you wanted or keep the job while you get shown the door.
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what is with all the GNP comments these days? Am i missing something?
also, i love the “Eventually, you will have to tell her about yourself in order to manufacture / build a genuine rapport.” line
lol, so true. Guys could care less about rapport as long as girl is hot enough for his taste.
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You’re all probably right. We all present ourselves in different ways depending on our goals. Still, it seems unnatural to, when a girl says “tell me about yourself”, to not just tell her about myself. That seems like it would be hard to drill into my personality.
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“I feel like you know everything about me, but I know nothing about you.”
This really is a great indicator that you are doing the right things.
The other one is (a little further down the pike) is when a girl says:
“I feel like I am in a movie”
If she says that, you can spark up a smoke, kick up your Gucci loafers…cause you are in there.
– MPM
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Still, it seems unnatural to, when a girl says “tell me about yourself”, to not just tell her about myself
This is the thing a lot of guys don’t understand: when a girl says “tell me about yourself,” she is gaming you too!
She doesn’t really want to know about your aunts and uncles, your favorite pet, and your dreams and aspirations. What she’s doing is probing you for weaknesses, character flaws, ability to parry a challenge, thinking on your feet, and other things that will tip her off as to the reproductive qualities you bring to the table.
She probably doesn’t realize she is gaming you. These mate-selection instincts are just part of what makes her run; part of her code, if you will.
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I call it, “calibrated vulnerability.”
Sure, I am arrogant and promiscuous and non-committal. But deep down, I am sensitive and loving and searching for The One. Perhaps my resistance to a serious relationship is merely a result of my fear of getting hurt.
Prior to this, I was just a vanilla asshole. No problems with meeting girls, but retention was often a problem. Once I threw a little vulnerability into the mix, I was able to keep girls around a lot longer as they (unsuccessfully) tried to crack by shell.
As the post recommends, let details about yourself and your life trickle out slowly. I would add, make your personal revelations come out “accidentally” and then quickly change the subject.
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Josh —
The problem is that you are stuck in old ways of thinking. What women do now is select exclusively for the few strangers who generate the most excitement on the equation:
Physique/Looks + Power + 2 x Social Dominance = raw sexual attraction.
Women don’t care about much of anything other than raw sexual attraction, it’s the only thing that dominates their selection process for men because they had a radical shift to basically “does he really turn me on?” and not much else. Considering their own earnings can support them and there is no need for much of anything else in men.
In this equation Social Dominance (being an arrogant Asshole) counts more than pretty much anything else. Take Bill Gates and say, Jared Leto. Bill Gates is among the most powerful and richest men in the world, and was a long time before he got married. However not just his physique/looks were poor, but his Social Dominance (itself a function of testosterone) was poor, despite his power. Meanwhile Jared Leto is a drug addled guy without much actual power/wealth, but has tons of social dominance due to minor fame/celebrrity.
To be competitive with the few guys who can demonstrate Hight Tesosterone and Social Dominance, yes men MUST play these games, highly structured, to have sex with women, and critically, maintain sexual interest of whatever woman.
i’ll note that pretty much all the famous PUA: Mystery, Style, etc. have not been able to hold a relationship. Eventually the “real them” slips through and women head for the exits. However, they at least have sex with women instead of sitting home.
I’m also skeptical of the ability of most men to play a musical instrument, become a proficient martial artist, or a skilled PUA. We are in an era of specialization, and that seems just too much of a fantasy.
Far more likely are commercial developments of pheremones, “chemical game” designed to play upon chemical receptors in women. Since all you have to do is buy it, hypothetically.
It is quite clear that David Alexander’s romantic fantasy of a woman loving him for his own self is going to be brutally destroyed among men (who are, not women, the hopeless romantics). Sex, love, affection by women to men is conditional, earned, always withdrawn if the man falls from the Physique/Looks, Power, Social Dominance values the woman pegged before.
This is a huge shift, I can understand why you fail to grasp what is going on, the culture has lagged quite a bit and failed to really present this reality. Though there are some good bits out there.
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Cat/String theory probably comes into play here too. If you allow yourself to be a passive database that she can query for results with sub-millisecond response time, you’re no longer an interesting toy: just like letting the string drop between the cat’s paws.
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Funny posting. And PA’s comments in this thread are gems.
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I agree wholeheartedly. Specialization is one aspect of it. Another is that most people devote their ‘spare’ time to passive endeavors like television, or mostly-passive endeavors like game consoles and computers. On top of that, I’ve noticed that an alarming number of people perceive themselves as static & immutable, or they overestimate how much effort it takes to learn.
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PA
“What she’s doing is probing you for weaknesses, character flaws, ability to parry a challenge, thinking on your feet, and other things that will tip her off as to the reproductive qualities you bring to the table.”
Exactly. Well said.
She just wants to know that your not like every other fuckhead who has spit Game at her.
This is a chance to shine.
Take it and shine like a freshly heisted Trillion Cut VVS1 Diamond.
– MPM
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impeccable timing is the intangible skill that separates the professional from the amateur.
You make it sound so attractive.
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I think the Martial Arts analogy wrt Game is apt, since Mystery himself mentions MA quite a bit in his book, and, other love/sex manuals, like the Kama Sutra, also mention the importance of the Martial arts in relation to what Mystery calls the Venusian ones, or Game.
But I think we’re being a bit too simplistic here. As any student of MA knows, it is a vast and deeply diverse world unto itself, with many different forms, styles and approaches. The same can be said for Game, I think.
Some martial arts are better suited for certain conditions than others; some are developed as a direct result of realworld conditions, while others are meant more as a reflection of the founder’s philosophical or spiritual state. Again, I think its fair to say, that Game mirrors this view as well.
A very well known idea in the Game community is “pick your Dojo”-meaning that there are many styles and approaches to Game. It is important that the student find a style that best suits himself, just as in the MA, he must find a style that best suits himself.
Now here’s where Obsidian reveals the geeky side of himself.
In the Jedi world, there are 7 official forms, or styles of combat. Each style emphasizes a particular aspect of fighting, and by extension an aspect of its user.
Yoda, who is by his very nature dimunitive, uses a style that takes advantage of this, making him a very hard target to hit (Ataru, Form IV).
Anakin, who is driven by his passions, chooses a style that best reflects a more “raw Alpha” vibe, Shem-Djo, if my spelling is right (Form V).
Obiwan’s style relies a much more passive approach, which makes him very tough to beat, because his defences are so good (Soresu, Form III).
Mace Windu, like Anakin, draws his power from a deep well of passion; his form of combat is both unorthodox and all-emcompassing/overwhelming at the same time. In fact, only a handful of Jedi have ever even successfully used his style, and when they do, they invariably fall to the Dark Side (Vapaad, Form VII).
Dooku’s style, Makashi, is a true fencer’s art, & is a statement about his sense for flair & elegance, as well as for precision (Form II).
Since references to the Jedi are common in the PUA community, I think it might do well for many of its adherents to contemplate things like this as they consider which dojo they wish to draw from. Congruency is the key here. It must be a natural fit for you in order to get the most out of it, and one reason why a lot of guys fail at Game is because they fail to develop their introspective sides of themselves.
When you sit down and think about what I’ve just written above, you’ll see large elements of each Jedi’s principal style in the way they approach Game among known and even lesser known PUAs. For example, Roissy doesn’t strike me as an Obiwan type. More like an Anakin. Style is more Obiwan. Of course these are assessments made at considerable distance and people are free to disagree. But I’m just sayin.
At any rate, a word aboyt Style and Mystery, if I may.
Neither have been able to maintain LTRs, not because of Game, but in my view because of not having a moreb complete understanding of it.
In his book, Mystery clearly states that he is focusing on the courtship phase of relationships, nothing more. Therefore, it is encumbant upon the student to search elsewhere for knowledge as to how to maintain a LTR should that be his desire. And such sources do exist in the Game community. Dave From Hawaii I would point to as one such example. He is a Man who has been married for years and has maintained,at least in part, because of Game. So it is possible.
I’ll hold here. Anyone wanna take stab at which Jedi Obsidian most resembles?
😉
O
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Don’t be coy Sara. Everyone knows you flick the bean whilst perusing this blog and working yourself up into a frenzy of vitriol.
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whiskey:
“Physique/Looks + Power + 2 x Social Dominance = raw sexual attraction”
Is this an empirically tested model?
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PA:
“She doesn’t really want to know about your aunts and uncles, your favorite pet, and your dreams and aspirations. What she’s doing is probing you for weaknesses, character flaws, ability to parry a challenge, thinking on your feet, and other things that will tip her off as to the reproductive qualities you bring to the table.”
I’m gonna have to disagree on this point. Perhaps she will notice any flaws the guy shows during this round of questioning and take note, but women aren’t so conniving (consciously or subconsciously) as to ask a man questions for the *sole* purpose of testing him. Perhaps you’re looking at it from the glass half-empty POV. I see it as her searching for any connection or common-ground that can further build rapport.
When I ask someone a question, I’m genuinely interested in the answer. If I notice that they are overly boastful or some other undesirable trait, I’ll take note of that and avoid talking to them as often. I don’t, however, go into every conversation wondering if a person will be boastful or boring to talk to.
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Chuck, if I may,
Shit testing on the part of Females is hardly something they are consciously aware of; per EP theory, it is an adaptation to thousands of years of conditioning in harsh environments where there had to be some means for the Female to determine the potential S&R value of the Male prospect. Women shit test in many ways, some more subtle or overt than others, all the time. They cannot help this, for a Woman’s number one concern is security in all ways.
O
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Perhaps I’m off on my definition of shit testing, but aren’t we all always shit-testing? is this the same as a bullshit detector? my bullshit detector goes off frequently, but i don’t ask questions of another person waiting for it to do so.
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Have y’all heard of “sub-text”? Subtext is what’s going on beneath the words that are being spoken. Two people (in a movie, say) may be talking (on the level of words) about how pretty the day is, but what’s really going on might be (in a romance) “Do you like me? I like you.” Or (in a gangster movie) “I’m really sorry, it’s just business, but you’re dead.”
Per acting, there is always subtext going on in personal interactions. True or not (I think it’s true more often than not), in acting classes you learn to recognize it, read it, and respond to it. You come out of acting classes able to contend with the literal meaning of what’s being said as well as with the personal/emotional/power dynamics of what’s going on beneath. You even learn to have some fun with it.
Hence: Not a bad idea to take some acting classes. Can’t help but enhance your game.
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Michael:
Here is Cajun’s classic article on subtext.
Improv classes are highly recommended by almost all game instructors.
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Josh
From the way Roissy writes, it seems “game” can take lots of practice, planning, and analysis. I like chess, but I wouldn’t want to play it nonstop for months.
Roissy is a tireless personal bullshit manufacturing device. Don’t try this at home.
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acting like a man
You know, I don’t know if that’s compatible with going to a Celine Dion or Madonna concert. But then, in our new world order, I’m free to sing a twenty year old Kylie Minogue song in falsetto in front of my female friends for shits and giggles…
It is quite clear that David Alexander’s romantic fantasy of a woman loving him for his own self is going to be brutally destroyed among men
You do realize that under the old world order, she only wants me for my money, and in the new world order, she only wants me for my game. In either situation, the female would never choose based on her loving the true me.
do you ever find it annoying or just plain tiring
Somehow, there’s a part of me that thinks elitism isn’t just taught, but inherited genetically…
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No fucking way, roissy. You are not a being from this Earth if you can get any girl to make her feel like she told you everything and you have told her nothing. On the first date.
You didn’t say any girl, of course. My natural skepticism makes me want to say it’d be a certain type of girl who wants the oppurtunity of telling her life story to someone she’s just met.
It surprises me how spot on you are about stuff I can hate about a man’s behaviour (I can’t speak for other women, although you seem to imply you’ve got a female mind-reader device hardwired into your neural circuits).
Although I hate some of your language in other posts (especially when you call women some general deragatory thing in your offhand maybe-I’m-saying-this-to-piss-off-the-feminists way), this and the old movie scene analysis is the kind of thing I love. HELL YES, don’t let the conversation be boring!
I am skeptical about this kind of behaviour being learnt, though, and the balance is very difficult. Surely it takes a certain kind of guy: masculine but not psychopathic, calm and quickwitted etc. to be a ‘master’ of this thing. Therefore, it’s more of a letting out of potential (which I can admit, a lot of guys surely do have). However: a bitter, paranoid, shallow and/or stubborn male with huge baggage surely can’t succeed as well.
How many of you guys have this superpower?
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Even the coolest laconic cats leaned back deep into the couch find the right time to mutter a few choice teasers about themselves.
Leaning back is negative body language.
She’ll get the joke, and her Code Electrified Pussy will thank you for not failing her shit test.
Does SHE thank you, or does her pussy–or in your case ass hole– thank you? Not that it matters.
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“You are not a being from this Earth if you can get any girl to make her feel like she told you everything and you have told her nothing. On the first date.”
It’s easy. Ask a girl one question (or statement-statement-question) and she will Yap for Hours.
“Surely it takes a certain kind of guy: masculine but not psychopathic, calm and quickwitted etc. to be a ‘master’ of this thing.”
Yeah. They are called “G’s”.
Every major city has them.
Or you can find them in Biarritz in summertime.
– MPM
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Bhetti B.:
Women love it when Roissy tears apart the beta boys, but they hate it when he turns it on the ladies.
This solidarity among the sisterhood is creepy. You don’t see the men in this forum standing up for the betas, but start making generalizations about women and the ladies get defensive.
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You don’t see the men in this forum standing up for the betas, but start making generalizations about women and the ladies get defensive.
Didn’t Roissy himself once write that the only time people will stand up to an alpha is if he goes after a defenseless woman?
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Whiskey, I just want to say that I think you’re a genius. PA, you are pretty good too. Both of your critiques of Roissy’s posts are spot on.
One thing I’ve always wondered is why can’t the top PUAs keep relationships going? And Whiskey you’ve had some good things to say about that.
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Thursday — Excellent link, tks.
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Taff honey,
Don’t be coy Sara. Everyone knows you flick the bean whilst perusing this blog and working yourself up into a frenzy of vitriol.
Vitriol? I love dirty talk. As far as flicking the bean, I had to look that one up. Where’s the bean pump when I need one?
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It VERY EASY to tell if a woman is interested in you.
If her pupils are dialated in conversation, she is either afraid of you, or attracted to you. That has been scientifically tested.
Some other gems about eyes and women:
When researchers show pictures of babies to women, their pupils dialate.
When researchers show pictures of babies and their mothers, their pupils dialate even more.
Women’s pupil dilation also expands when being shown a beautiful landscape.
Women’s pupils HARDLY GET LARGER AT ALL WHEN LOOKING AT PICTURES OF ATTRACTIVE OR BUILT-UP MEN.
Wanna know what men’s responses are the the EXACT SAME TESTS?
The exact opposite. Except for one thing, although men’s pupils reactions are nil when looking at babies, babies and their mothers, beautiful landscapes, their eyes swell to EXTRODINARY size when looking at pictures of beautiful women, larger than women’s pupils swell for anything.
If she gives you a “glance”, she has seen you. If she looks back at you in less than one minute, she is attracted. If she slightly lifts her eyebrows when looking at you——called an “eye lift”, she is really attracted. If you think a chick is checking you out peripherally in a bar, check your watch. If she is interested in you and wants to check you out but doesn’t want you to catch her, he will also quickly check her watch. She cannot help this psychologically. Thats an old CIA trick I read about eons ago.
If she gives you an “eye lift” she will find it difficult to maintain your gaze much longer, as she knows she has given herself away. You need to go talk to her at this point. It would be like disobeying the three-second rule if you dont and she will think you either not-interested or scared.
There are all sorts of ways to use psychology to manipulate another person into moods and even feelings. The Mystery Method is probably just the tip of the iceberg now that plenty of males are willing to delve into this area of study with their attention. Expect more advances to be made
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BTW—Your pupils also get larger when you are terrified. This is an evolutionary response in your body that allows you to collect more information about a threatening environment. All senses sharpen at this time, hearing becomes more acute, your sense of touch becomes more enhanced, you can even “taste” fear#. Your pupils enlarge even if the environment is well-lit. Your brain needs this information to help you protect yourself, escape the danger, or both.
#When getting profoundly angry (fighting mad), sometimes you can taste the metallic taste in your mouth. Chrome-like. The emotion of disgust can conjure up the same chemicals if experienced intensely enough. So in a way, if a man is “beta” enough………………….Roiss is right that she will just want him “dead” in Marry/Fuck/Kill.
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“Where’s the bean pump when I need one?”
It’s right here (pointing at mouth)
Where’s Purple Saguro on this one?
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Z,
Good lookin out on the advanced tech-tip. Much appreciated, and is one of the reasons I’m in the Game.
The Obsidian
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“#When getting profoundly angry (fighting mad), sometimes you can taste the metallic taste in your mouth. Chrome-like.”
I’ve never heard this. Is it perhaps from increased blood flow causing an iron-ish taste?
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Chuck — no just my gut instinct based on observations. We’ve all seen guys and wondered, “how they hell did they get with THAT hottie.” I think social dominance works twice as much as the other factors. I’ve seen guys in school, or at work, or among clients, and it’s not always the best looking or most powerful that pull in girls, but the most socially dominant. Charisma, in other words. Which is closely related to testosterone I think.
Thanks Sal.
Obsidian — the problem still remains. Only a few men can indeed commit to study the martial arts, or musical instruments, or PUA. It requires getting outside themselves, it must be something they like doing (the repetition after a long day is tiresome) and it generally has to bring immediate rewards. Think of all the people you know, and how many could benefit from either martial arts or playing an instrument, know it well, and yet do not pursue it.
PUA CAN help a few. But that’s all. Which is probably a good thing, if everyone became a skilled PUA then women’s preferences would simply shift every upward, the same way musical preferences would shift upward to mastery if everyone could play like say, Art Tatum or Steve Vrai.
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“PUA CAN help a few. But that’s all. Which is probably a good thing, if everyone became a skilled PUA then women’s preferences would simply shift every upward, the same way musical preferences would shift upward to mastery if everyone could play like say, Art Tatum or Steve Vrai.”
Whiskey, I’m glad you mentioned that. I received some flak for my similar sentiments on my own blog.
Also, is it more the fact that high levels of testosterone are responsible for a socially-acquired higher level of charisma vis a vis a favorable attitude by others to those men w/ high T levels? Or are you saying that there is a biological correlation b/w T levels and charisma? I tend to think it’s something acquired through a social mechanism.
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In her perfectly rational mind, Pupu finds a weakness in the Code Interest spectrum — unlike a hygrometer or a barometer, it cannot be read so easily unless you are right in the middle of the action. It would be nice to have another set of codes for guiding actions and save this set for reviewing performance.
By the way, Peter, shouldn’t “Code Surrounded by GNP Pussy” be at the very BOTTOM of the list, for you, at least?
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Some more science info on females, taken from 11minute’s fine blog (that he hasn’t updated in a few days now).
11minutes linked this piece from the NYTimes.
This was from a scientific test that hooked up instruments to male and female GENITALIA to test the responses of the men and women when shown media of various sexual situations and people. The results were astonishing:
“……..The participants sat in a brown leatherette La-Z-Boy chair in her small lab at the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, a prestigious psychiatric teaching hospital affiliated with the University of Toronto, where Chivers was a postdoctoral fellow and where I first talked with her about her research a few years ago. The genitals of the volunteers were connected to plethysmographs — for the men, an apparatus that fits over the penis and gauges its swelling; for the women, a little plastic probe that sits in the vagina and, by bouncing light off the vaginal walls, measures genital blood flow. An engorgement of blood spurs a lubricating process called vaginal transudation: the seeping of moisture through the walls. The participants were also given a keypad so that they could rate how aroused they felt.
The men, on average, responded genitally in what Chivers terms “category specific” ways. Males who identified themselves as straight swelled while gazing at heterosexual or lesbian sex and while watching the masturbating and exercising women. They were mostly unmoved when the screen displayed only men. Gay males were aroused in the opposite categorical pattern. Any expectation that the animal sex would speak to something primitive within the men seemed to be mistaken; neither straights nor gays were stirred by the bonobos. And for the male participants, the subjective ratings on the keypad matched the readings of the plethysmograph. The men’s minds and genitals were in agreement.
All was different with the women. No matter what their self-proclaimed sexual orientation, they showed, on the whole, strong and swift genital arousal when the screen offered men with men, women with women and women with men. They responded objectively much more to the exercising woman than to the strolling man, and their blood flow rose quickly — and markedly, though to a lesser degree than during all the human scenes except the footage of the ambling, strapping man — as they watched the apes. And with the women, especially the straight women, mind and genitals seemed scarcely to belong to the same person. The readings from the plethysmograph and the keypad weren’t in much accord. During shots of lesbian coupling, heterosexual women reported less excitement than their vaginas indicated; watching gay men, they reported a great deal less; and viewing heterosexual intercourse, they reported much more. Among the lesbian volunteers, the two readings converged when women appeared on the screen. But when the films featured only men, the lesbians reported less engagement than the plethysmograph recorded. Whether straight or gay, the women claimed almost no arousal whatsoever while staring at the bonobos. ”
“Z” again: Notice anything gents?
Notice that women’s pussies get wetter when watching BONOBOOS fuck than when seeing a nude musclebound man walking on a beach? The researchers postulate the absence of a hard-on on the male might have factored into it, but come on. When you see a nude woman do you immediately notice if her nipples are hard and clit engorged? They are enticing if they are, but secondary, right?
Notice how much the women LIED about what turned them on guys?
They got wet watching gay men fuck, lesbian women fuck, apes fuck, women excercise………………….all while claiming to be straight females and reporting on the pad that they were unaroused, BUT THEIR WET PUSSIES TOLD A DIFFERENT STORY.
Notice how HONEST men were? If they were gay men, they got off on watching gay men have sex, if they were straight men, they got off on watching heterosexual sex, lesbian females have sex, or women excercising or nude women. Just like you would think.
The only advice I can conjure up from this is that you might be able to appear more attractive to women if you dance quite a bit at a club (with other women) and appear more attractive to women who are seated around the dance floor who are watching.
The Mystery Method E-book pointed out that men who go to bars and attempt to appear muscular while standing and posing are nowhere, and this test pretty much proves that notion right. If women were forced to look at pictures of buffed out men next to skinny or fat guys, they’d pick the buff men, but so many other things ovveride that situation in real life that skinny or fat men have myriad other ways to alter her “FEELINGS” and build attraction “in the field”.
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Obsidian, since you mentioned styles of fighting, I have a question for you.
I’ve been reading about game for a few months, but the problem I have is I’m not really a sociable person. I mean, I have friends and am not surly or anything, but all my life I always hated talking to strangers. The idea of approaching a group of strangers and starting this whole high-energy performance, asking their opinion and banting and shit, seems too much for me.
In the PUA literature it seems to me they conflate coolness with sociability, but I think they forget James Dean and Marlon Brando played a lot of antisocial characters. I mean, what kind of social proof James Dean had in Rebel Without a Cause? These were not sociable, talkative, high-energy guys.
So ok, not everyone is Marlon Brando or James Dean. And I’m not against doing small changes in myself in order to learn game. But my question is: is there a school of pick-up or a PUA who doesn’t rely on high-energy routines? Something a little bit more toned down, more passive and calm?
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MB: Oh, whoops, seems like there’s more than a whiff of hypocrisy there on my part. I do not even know to what extent I was defending my sisters, or myself because I would be included in those comments.
I find it surprising that you think it’s abnormal for a woman to defend her gender. If the gender gets devalued as a whole, so do all the women including myself, especially if this opinion is spouted by what can be regarded as an alpha-type authority such as roissy. I can draw a parallel with the beta rending: notice how females join in or oppose the anti-slut vitriol depending on their own status.
What’s interesting is that I don’t think this is reflected in the real world: women don’t defend their gender and men are regarded as more loyal to each other.
Ah, while I’m here, may as well link some research that makes looks a bit more of a deep indicator for women: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7884223.stm This might help explain any variability in the ‘hot or not’ scales for men: subtly different personality preferences.
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Z, again, just speaking from personal experience here so again not speaking for everybody, but I think that the results are even more literal than that. It’s not necessarily a matter of lying, it’s a matter of the following: a woman can be (easily?) physically aroused while mentally being repulsed. The mind and the body do not correlate, you’re a master if you can turn her on on both levels.
I wonder how the results would’ve differed with women with religious backgrounds which viewed their sexuality as sinful…? What about differences in orgasm achievement, which is different from just ‘increase in blood flow’?
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Dave From Hawaii I would point to as one such example. He is a Man who has been married for years and has maintained,at least in part, because of Game.
I was just thinking while reading this latest blog entry…it’s not really much different in applying game to a LTR…only a different way of trying to achieve the same effect.
Being married for 10 years means my wife knows just about everything there is to know about me…
…but roissy’s point is as relevant as ever on this front:
# remained an elusive mystery
# did not give away the store to try to win her approval
How to remain an “elusive mystery” when your partner knows all of your personal details and history of your life?
I think it’s actively working on ways to avoid utter predictability.
I’ve changed my entire mindset when it comes to interacting with my wife…I’m always thinking and acting on ways to be unpredictable – which I think has the same seductive effect as “mysterious” does in the courtship faze.
In the “beta” years of my marriage, it was: “Honey, what would you like to do tonight? Feel like a movie?”
Now, it’s: “Get ready, we’re going?”
Her: “Where?”
Me: “You’ll see. Just bring a jacket, it might get cold.”
By simply changing my tactics of communication, I display social dominance by taking the lead role, and actually get her excited in the mystery of where we’re going and what we’re gonna do. The more she asks me where we’re going, the more I evade, ignore or change the topic.
This kind of thing opens the door to all kinds of banter, backhanded compliments and teasing that makes for fun, flirtatious conversation during the car ride to the theater.
Her: “So where are you taking me?”
Me: “Quit being impatient…I realize you can’t wait to get the evening over with so we can go home and you can rip my clothes off…but you’re just going to have to wait, I’ve got something else in mind, first.”
So and and so forth.
when we actually pull into the theater parking lot…”You mean you’re actually taking me to the MOVIES?!! Wow…what’s the special occasion?!?!”
Back in the “beta” days, I’d seek her permission and approval to decide what we were gonna do, and than we’d have a car ride of silence or her or I complaining about work or other mundane, non-attraction building conversation, ending in a platonic evening of boredom between two people stuck in a stale rut of a LTR.
I now believe…no, I KNOW the entire key to a LTR is simply a constant continual process of re-seducing her over and over again. Stop gaming your wife, and you will become just another sad statistic of yet another pathetic “sexless” marriage.
Avoid falling into complacency through predictability.
I also believe this is truly the root of the dissolution of any relationship. All the hardships of life, financial troubles in a FUBAR economy…the kinds of stress people cite as to reasons why they broke up or divorced, boils down to a failure to work on keeping sexual attraction alive. Keep that going, and everything else is water under the bridge.
Let that fail, and everything else will follow suit.
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Z — Are you sure that the women are “lying” about their responses? Is lying really the right word? Maybe female sexual response is just a more layered, shrouded, hidden and confusing thing than male sexual response is. The wisdom of the ages would suggest so. Part of your task as a man: 1) get her aroused or at least interested, 2) connect her up with those feelings. Two different steps. Stir her. Now steer her awareness towards those feelings.
Dino — FWIW (and I’m an old guy hearkening back to ancient times, so this may not apply any longer), there can be many ways to meet girls. I was single until I was 35 and didn’t do badly for myself during those years, but I never once picked a girl up at a bar. I was lousy at that — just not my strength. But I met a lot of girls through work and through friends. Parties I definitely liked and could do pretty well at. I’ve always been bewildered by an image that comes across in a lot of these discussions. I picture a lonely guy going into a huge thumping bar full of antagonistic hotties, hoping against hope that he’ll come up with the goods. Is this in fact what “meeting girls” is like for most young guys these days? Anyway, back in the day I often found plenty of opportunities to meet women in more friendly situations than “lonely guy in hostile bar.” Could have used more Game than I had, god knows. But at parties, dinners, get-togethers, outings, etc, the breaking-the-ice phase is often not that big or intimidating a factor.
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Dave from Hawaii is a wise man.
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Dino,
I don’t really like talking to strangers either, and don’t think it’s required for game. It’s like Obsidian said: Just play to your strengths.
I have a fairly masculine personality, and to adopt mystery method type game would mean a complete personality reversal and doing things I would be ashamed of my friends seeing me doing. I mean, come on, magic tricks? Tarot cards? If a guy came up to me and my friends and asked us all how we knew each other, we’d think he was a fag. We wouldn’t socially validate him or whatever mystery thinks would happen.
Studying game has done a few things for me that didn’t require any radical changes. 1) It has made me cognizant of what I say and do and what the women with whom I speak say and do. I act a little differently around them. Still entirely within the realm of my regular personality, but I tease and bs them a little more instead of just giving straight answers, as someone said. I treat them like buddies more than precious objects that I’m trying to woo.
2) Game has also made me get out there and talk to women more when I go to the bar. I’ve even quit drinking for a few months in order to work on not requiring booze as a social lubricant. It’s a had a nice side effect of making me more discerning in my interactions, as I can see clearly rather than through beer goggles. I’m still not at the stage of cold approaching women on the street, which would require a big personality change for me, as I don’t like talking to strangers, but I value the end result enough that it’s a change I’m willing to make. But again with that, you can do it your way. I just finished reading an book by Paul Janka. He has a pretty good method for approaching girls that seems to work for him that I am looking forward to implementing. Basically, instead of making chit chat with a girl about something you couldn’t care less about, like her sweater or where you can get a good bagel or whatever, just go up to her and say “Hey, I’m in a rush, but I think you’re cute. If you’re down, let’s grab a coffee next week.”
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Z – about the pupil thing:
How in the hell can one even tell if someone’s pupils have dilated? I mean it’s easy enough if you are right up in their grill with good lighting. It’s a whole other story when you are in a crowded, dimly lit bar.
Although I fully believe that dilated pupils = excited state, I just don’t see how practical this can be for pick up at a nightclub or whatever.
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Dave from Hawaii is a wise man.
Thanks…but in all honesty, where it not for discovering “game” and “PUA” websites, I know I’d be divorced by now, bitter towards women and probably headed towards a David Alexander type of existence of angry solitude.
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a David Alexander type of existence of angry solitude
The proper description is “an existence of depressing solitude peppered by moments of happiness with his niece, nephews, female friends, male friends, train riding, driving, and photography”.
David isn’t angry. He understands that girls like alphas, and it’s not anybody’s fault, and everything is beyond his control. 🙂
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Far be it from me to try and convince you otherwise DA…I’ve seen the futility of others who’ve tried…but I’m no “Alpha.” But I learned about game and figured out you don’t have to be an “alpha” to use game successfully.
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About the Pupil Thing:
If your own Pupils are dilated it Will attract Girls.
This is why Girls are attracted to you on Extacsy.
– MPM
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Correction:
This is why Girls are attracted to you when YOU are on Extacsy.
– MPM
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Michael Blowhard and BhettiB,
I posted an article from the NYTimes that interviewed a post-doctoral sex researcher affiliated with the Universtiy of Tononto. The conclusions were hers.
Lets go over it again.
A pliesmograph was inserted into the womens vagina, and it measured blood flow to the vaginal walls, which causes the vagina to get wet, indicating sexual arousal.
The women were also given a keypad to rate their arousal while watching these scenes.
EVEN Lesbian women reported less arousal than their pussies showed when watching gay men have sex onscreen.
Men’s responses to the keypad ALWAYS MATCHED the device put on their penise’s that measured the blood-flow induced engorgment of that organ, but women’s keypad pronouncements of arousal OFT disagreed with how wet their vaginas got.
To wit: Women say they aren’t turned on by watching gay men fuck, but their WET pussies say otherwise.
Striaight women say they arent’ turned on by lesbians having sex, but their WET pussies say otherwise.
Straight women say they aren’t turned on by watching bonoboos (apes) have sex, but their pussies still got moist when seeing this for a span of time.
Women didn’t get very moist at all watching a muscular, ambling stud walking down a beach. Maybe if he had a hard-on?
Lesbian women reported on the keypad no interest in watching gay men have sex, but their pussies moistened up a little—indicated that there was some arousal there.
What men reported made them horny on the keypad always matched how much blood flow went into their dicks. Men were HONEST. Women consistently LIED about what turned them on.
You can get as upset as you want folks, but Roissy is right about many things and Whiskey is certainly right about many things regarding female sexuality.
Obsidian,
Ive got some more related info on some of these little tricks that I read about in a book. I’ll try and take the time to dig it out and post some of it. Some of the little tricks public speakers use were interesting/disgusting at the same time.
One of them that I remember right off the top of my head was the professional speaker, Kevin Hogan, knew what kind of women usually find him attractive, so when he was speaking he’d try and make eye contact with them in the nearer rows when he looked into their eyes to see if they were dialated. He’d make extra eye contact with these women to build attraction, and when he wanted to gamble on a point with the audience he’d make explicit eye contact with them and shake his “up and down” in the “yes” fashion. Nodding heads in a crowd “spread like a virus” according to Hogan, a professional speaker, so if he could get four of five women in the nearest rows nodding their heads up and down, the nodding would spread and the general mood of the auditorium would become more accepting to whatever he had to say. “Staged questions” by embedded reporters in the press are used much the same way.
I’ll never forget that in one Bush/Cheney campaign stump speech years ago, it was revealed that the attendees were asked to sign a piece of paper pledging their vote for Bush/Cheney, this helped mentally prime them to have a accepting response with a lot of clapping and happy faces. It would look better on the TV news. Psychology worms its way into everything, and informed people can mood scam others continually. Its not fair or even likeable, but thats just the way it is out there these days.
Another dirty trick (boy am I going to burn in hell for some of this) is to focus on the space between a woman’s eyes when you are lying to her. The uppermost portion of her nose when looking into her eyes. You will be less inclined to blink or have any other facial ticks while telling her a whopper and she will think you are looking directly into her eyes, being totally honest with her. People blink more often when they are lying. Clinton’s blinks were measured during his Monica Lewinsky “confession” and “denial”. According to Hogan, a pro at this kind of thing who knew intimately Clinton’s personal tics and mannerisms “like the back of his hand, Clinton was blinking at several times his normal rate during these two famous speeches and his body language was different than it usually was. He was lying and uncomfortable. Hogan has analyzed many hours of Clinton tape and concluded that Clinton usaully believed and was comfortable with what usually came out of his mouth most any other time, but not during these two speeches. In other words, he did Lewinsky, and he really wasn’t sorry about it. You know what they say about Jewish Girls and good blow jobs not being strangers and all.
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“Back in the “beta” days, I’d seek her permission and approval to decide what we were gonna do, and than we’d have a car ride of silence or her or I complaining about work or other mundane, non-attraction building conversation, ending in a platonic evening of boredom between two people stuck in a stale rut of a LTR.”
Stop. I’m having flashbacks. Now I’m going to have night sweats and the jimmy legs for a month.
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do a lot of extacsy, do we, g?
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Carl Sagan,
In the book, the authors mentioned that Blue Eyed women and men wanted more eye contact according to research. This was a good thing because you can easily tell if their pupils are dialated, but brown-eyed girls might get shortchanged in the process because its harder to tell if their pupils are dialated.
The “eye lift” is the biggest tell of all. When a person opens their eyes wider, its almost like they are trying to manually make their pupils get wider and let in as much information about the subject as possible. If a woman glances at you and her eyebrows shoot up very quickly for an instant , that means she is checking you out. That doesn’t mean that she will like what she sees upon further inspection, but from afar you do fit the profile of what attracts her. If you get a second glance in under one minute, she finds you at least somewhat attractive——and you should move in if she is fuckable.
You can just use her as a dance-floor prop if she is merely fuckable and hope that you out there moving on the dance floor will catch the eye of some other women at the club. Women, remember, were turned on by watching bonoboos fuck. The researchers thought this was due to the motions their bodies were going through. Women were more aroused than men when watching people excercise………………so by all means dancing might be a way to get a second glance.******* What apparently didn’t do much for females was simply being buff. Im buff, and have been for many years……………………so believe me I wish it wasn’t that way, but females are not like males in this regard. What turns them on isn’t what turns you on.
*****In some African cultures that are indeed ancient, the males dance in front of the females in ceremonies and the females pick the males as husbands………………..almost opposite of the west. But the men DANCE to make themselves more attractive to the females. I guess the gals want to see you work that body or something. Of course some successful PUA’s might not ever dance or need to because of the other skills they develop. I hate dancing personally and always felt like an idiot doing so, but like public makeouts, it seems to affect women differently than men. So if you are bombing at a bar, grab a “4” by the hand and head to the dance floor and smile alot while out there, it might pay off with other chicks later who seen YOU having a good time.
Men like pretty, curvaceous, feminine, humble and polite women.
Women like Masculine, socially dominant, un-humble, men above all else. Being built up and even good-looking is secondary.
We really are opposites in many ways.
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From Michael:
“Dino — FWIW (and I’m an old guy hearkening back to ancient times, so this may not apply any longer), there can be many ways to meet girls. I was single until I was 35 and didn’t do badly for myself during those years, but I never once picked a girl up at a bar.”
My pick-up history has been similar. The bar has never been my thing. I’ve always been much more successful through work hook-ups and meeting friends of friends. Anyway, MB’s simple post made me think of something that we seem to overlook here. Perhaps it’s heresy, but oh well. We decry the lack of relationship-worthy women, but we always talk about scoring women in the bar. Granted, there is some talk about day Game and all that, but the plain fact is most of the women we are trying to score with are met in the bar. Odds are greater that you aren’t going to find the love of your life or a meaningful partner at a bar. Are we not shooting ourselves in the foot (this assumes each man is upset at the lack of relationship material, if you just want some ass then nevermind this comment).
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What men reported made them horny on the keypad always matched how much blood flow went into their dicks. Men were HONEST. Women consistently LIED about what turned them on.
I don’t know if it’s all “lies.” I read a blog that covered the same study, and that blog posited the notion that even though a women may not be mentally turned on by watching sexual behavior that she didn’t consciously find stimulating, it could very well be a protective physiological response…as in she may be raped by a man she finds utterly disgusting, but the sexual stimulation would still make her wet so she would avoid serious physical injury even though she had absolutely no sexual desire for her rapist..
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Far be it from me to try and convince you otherwise DA…I’ve seen the futility of others who’ve tried…but I’m no “Alpha.”
I’m not interested in getting into a debating match or a pity party over my inability to bang women, but I don’t see anything wrong with using game. If you’re happy using it, and the women who are its targets are happy, then there’s really nothing that anybody can say about it except for the fact that it works.
Just accept that some of us couldn’t be bothered for various reasons. 🙂
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I’d seek her permission and approval to decide what we were gonna do
It makes sense from a beta point of view since you’ll incorporate her view point, and you’ll get a sense of what she’d like. If done this way, the theory is that it avoids the potential problem of her not enjoying the activity that’s selected, or it gives the male ideas of what to do. In my case, it gives me some cover so I can blame her if the activity was unenjoyable.
From the alpha point of view, it’s pointless since the female will simply enjoy whatever activity you pick.
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Z — You seem to be struggling with something very basic. Lying is knowing one thing to be true and deliberately saying something else. My contention (and what much of world literature and sex research would confirm) is that when the women have moist pussies but say they aren’t aroused they aren’t lying BECAUSE THEY DON’T KNOW THEY’RE AROUSED.
A man can’t help but be aware of what’s turning him on, and of when he’s turned on. That’s how we’re built. Women aren’t built that way. Where arousal goes, their conscious awareness and their physiological state are sometimes, if not often, at odds. This can seem to a guy like lying, because IF THE GAL WAS A GUY she would in fact be lying. She’d know she was aroused and she’d be knowingly giving false information about that fact. But gals aren’t guys. And often when they’re aroused they simply don’t know it.
Hence, by the way, it’s up to us to steer their awareness in the direction of synching up with their arousal. And maybe even to have a good time doing so.
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I know it has been said before but…
The basic premise of game isn’t wrong (don’t be a punk for the first pretty girl that comes along and pays you some attention, have some confidence, etc…), but, I* wouldn’t apply this version for all men. What “game” is today, is really socialization that should have been learned in family life, and school settings. The undelying theme that I’ve gotten from this blog, is that men know what is best, can support their wives and family, are capable of being a source of strength and stability, are deserving of pretty girls (and there aren’t THAT many by the standards that I’ve seen set here), don’t have emotional issues themselves, and don’t fail, , or f*ck things up. All men, are not capable of this.
Women are people as well, with all the expectations, wants and dissapointments that that entails. We have from birth, a different biological motive than men. And if your *worth* to society is based solely on looks and youth, factors you can’t control, I highly doubt men would have behavior patterns different from women that are described and analyzed on this blog.
-Original Grace
* – I’m a woman, I have different motives, so take that with a grain of salt.
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Excellent comments, all.
I would agree, personally I don’t like going to meet Women in bars and the like. I consider such venues my labratory to try out different experiments, and/or times to hangout w/friends. But the kinds of Women I tend to attract usually aren’t to be found at the local taproom or niteclub.
As for styles of Game, again, its a matter of really knowing who you are. Some of us are more self aware than others, and your success, in my view, is directly related to the degree that you understand yourself the good and bad.
I’m a big fan of getting the Female’s attraction to you, FIRST. Therefore I tend not to chase Women around. Not only is it rarely productive its also a DLV. Insead, I focus on making myself such a compelling figure that they are enticed to get close to me to see what’s going on.
Women are very used to being approached, and this goes for the bona fide HB10 to the “aight” 5-6. Most guys simply don’t know any better and go out stepping to anything w/long hair and a skirt…to no avail.
So I like to turn the dynamic around and have them want to approach me, or at least get close by. Mystery talks about this.
Plus, its much more efficient; you can knock out mutlitple birds w/one stone: you can get and gauge IOIs check for any false reads, and begin a qualification process. If she passes then she gets my attention as reward. If not, nice meeting her and its back to my buds.
My style is more about making myself into a magnetic personality that makes others want to interact with me than anything else. Now I suppose that takes a degree of extroversion if I can call it that and if so, so be it. I am an admittedly very outgoing guy. So meeting people has never been a problem for me.
What I gleaned from Mystery was his understanding of social dynamics, anddont get it twisted, I have no desire or aim to learn magic tricks, wear top hats or paint my nails black. But I do appreciate the profound information he imparts and like anything else, you take what you can use and leave the bones.
Thanks, DFH. You da Man. Dave Alex will one day learn. I just hope he does before it is truly too late.
The Obsidian
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lilgrl
“do a lot of extacsy, do we, g?”
As a Prototype G, I was heavily involved in The Extacsy Wonder Gangs.
I should get into it again.
– MPM
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Dave Alex will one day learn. I just hope he does before it is truly too late.
As I told PA, I refuse to kneel before Zod.
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What “game” is today, is really socialization that should have been learned in family life, and school settings.
Yes, because I could easily see some teacher, or even some normal mother, saying to her son, “Now, Timmy, remember, half the things that these young girls will be saying to you can simply be ignored…they are just Shit Tests” “Yes, Mom, I know. Our teacher has already covered that in 7th grade.”
And if your *worth* to society is based solely on looks and youth, factors you can’t control
“Solely”? No. But her looks are hugely important. And, considering that the average non-overweight girl is a 6, and not a 5, this is not a depressing fact. What is depressing is how fat girls (and guys) are today.
And if your *worth* to society is based solely on looks and youth, factors you can’t control, I highly doubt men would have behavior patterns different from women that are described and analyzed on this blog.
Your worth to society has little to do with your looks. Your worth to society will likely be based on your efforts as a wife and mother. Now, your worth in the mating market, well, that is different.
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Thanks for the answers, Michael B., ASDF and Obsidian. Maybe bars are not my thing either. I’ll try to download Paul Janka’s book; for some reason I think it would be easier for me to do that direct approach on the street than going around in bars asking who lies more. The group approach just seems too much for me; I don’t see myself doing that; and I don’t want to be the God damned Life of the Party, a manic guy touching people and moving people around and stuff.
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Trust bestial-fetish Peter to dump cold water on an exciting set of visualizations.
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PA
If she wanted to know about your reproductive qualities, she’d be asking for your medical records.
whiskey
There is hardly anything fantastical about learning a new ability. Becoming proficient in a martial art doesn’t take enormous amounts of dedication.
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I would consider this topic to be ‘advanced Game’, and very few aspiring PUAs will get to a level where they can seamlessly act in this way, without having to overtly try to remember it.
One thing I would like to see more about on this blog is the zone where an analytical, intellectual man gains a deep understanding of Game, and can even coach others on it with apparent mastery of the subject matter, but is still incompetent in practice (i.e. can’t do approaches, has to ‘remember’ to get in ‘Game-mode’, get a lot of flakes, etc.)
I think a lot of guys are stuck in this zone, particularly if they are deep thinkers who over-analyze. They know about every detail of game in theory, but can’t string it together into consistent real-world practice.
For all we know, the same may even be true of Roissy – brilliant in writing about Game, but mediocre in practicing it. Who knows?
I think this is an important topic to cover. It is the next big area of troubleshooting within the Seduction community, as the population of guys who fit this description is growing.
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Tokyo — what you say is both true and untrue. To gain minimal skill as a martial artist and musician takes little effort, but has little payoff.
A beginner has little value in either field, and most martial arts and musical instruments take decades if not a lifetime to master.
Consider: a man in his late twenties, takes up a martial art. No matter how hard he practices, how much discipline he has to put in the hours, he will be drastically behind the man who at the same age was taught by his father from age 4 or so. This is why so many arts are “family” arts passed down from father to son. Since so much of it requires practice, practice, practice, for real proficiency not painful renditions of the scales, so to speak, I don’t see the widespread utility.
Can it help some people who are naturally skilled, or just need formalized training, or increases in skills? Sure. But observation and real-time adjustments for men who have not spent a lifetime doing that is pretty much not going to happen for the vast majority. They will remain AFC, at pure beginner level. Playing the scales.
Men in sales, in other fields, where constant interaction and self-monitoring are key, will do well. The way some manual labors transitioned to some weapons forms of martial arts (sycle, staff, etc). But Joe Average Accountant, staring all day at spreadsheets? Please. He’ll be lucky if he can play one song, painfully. While a talented guy trained from age 4 plays like say, Perlman.
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Michael Blowhard wrote:
“You seem to be struggling with something very basic. Lying is knowing one thing to be true and deliberately saying something else. My contention (and what much of world literature and sex research would confirm) is that when the women have moist pussies but say they aren’t aroused they aren’t lying BECAUSE THEY DON’T KNOW THEY’RE AROUSED.
A man can’t help but be aware of what’s turning him on, and of when he’s turned on. That’s how we’re built. Women aren’t built that way. Where arousal goes, their conscious awareness and their physiological state are sometimes, if not often, at odds”
Number One: Post “much world literature and sex research would confirm” for me. Ive not seen this and would like to take a gander.
Number two: You state….. “women have moist pussies but say they aren’t aroused they aren’t lying BECAUSE THEY DON’T KNOW THEY’RE AROUSED. ”
They dont know they are aroused huh? Are you conteding that women don’t know that their pussies are wet? Any of you ladies out there not know when some guy gets you wet?
Michael Blowhard……………………A man can get a hard on staring at a picture of Paris Hilton or Britney Spears in a bikini even though he might despise everything that those two represent.
A woman may hate a guy like Roissy, but in talking to Roissy I bet their pussies get moist even though they think he is a threat to their worldview. The bloggerette, Suburban Sweetheart told Roissy in the last thread “youre brilliant, but your a dick”. I could feel the humidity all the way out here in flyover country. Attraction is not a choice.
Think about what you claimed Michael. Women who identified as “straight”, got wet watching lesbians have sex and gay men having sex ON SCREEN. They weren’t getting “wet” to protect themselves from a rape as another commenter suggested. They reported that they were unmoved or unnattracted to what was showing on a SCREEN.
You are going to believe what you want to anyway, but I contend much more turns a woman on than they will ever admit to. Pupil dialation studies seem to back the pliesmograph studies up also.
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whiskey
There’s plenty of value in increased fighting ability. Martial arts like boxing, Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu produce results very quickly, and it does not take decades to become good at them, only a few years at most. Elite fighters tend to be in their twenties and thirties, so clearly it can’t take a lifetime to master a martial art.
Likely, but not necessarily. Many famous fighters and martial artists started practising in their late teens or early twenties (like Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo). And it doesn’t matter if you’re behind someone unless you’re looking to become world champion or something.
This is only true for some obscure martial arts, mostly Chinese I guess.
No utility in increased fitness and fighting ability?
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Women quite often don’t know whether they are wet or not. The vagina itself is not full of nerves, so they can be completely unaware of what is happening.
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Whiskey, good points…but there is one huge factor you didn’t mention: natural born talent.
I’ve been playing musical instruments my entire life. The music talent runs in my family.
Yet, when I was 18, one of my best friends was watching me play my guitar, and he said “Damn, I wish I could play like you!”
I told him, “Well, why don’t you try to learn yourself?”
He said he just never thought to even try.
He went and bought a guitar.
Within two years, he surpassed me in technical ability and musical intuition…despite having even 1/1000th the amount of practice I’ve put into it. And that’s not a knock my own abilities, but rather pointing out that some people just have an innate ability, sometimes tapped, sometimes not.
We later formed a Hawaiian Music band and played professionally for weddings, luaus and birthday parties for a few years.
Some people got the knack, and they progress in aptitude at an exponential rate once they apply themselves to a skill or craft.
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Obsidian,
More “eye game” and “seating game” info for you:
In Hogan’s research, he has found that male respondents are more comfortable when a woman was seated at a right angle from them, BUT WOMEN prefer for a man to be seated directly across from them. Men AND women almost universally prefer that person to stand or sit slightly to the right side in contrast with their left side. People, in other words, prefer to communicate with their right eyes in alignment with each other.
So…………..on the next date, slide a little to your left when sitting across from the mark, er’,………your date, and line your right eye up with her right eye.
Hogan noted that in public demonstrations of this phenomenon, people who sit to the left of another person tend to describe “the first emotion that comes to their minds” as “fear” or “anger”.
When people sit sto the right of another person, the first emotion felt was “glad to see you”, or “fine”, or “happy”. The results “dont prove causality”, but these are the results again and again.
If she is left handed, she still would rather you line up your right eye with her right eye roughly 70% of the time.
The easy way to remember this according to Hogan is “right eyes lining up makes everything all right”.
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More eye stuff on Clinton:
For 7 years, Clinton’s eye blink pattern in speeches was 7-12 blinks per minute. That is normal. During the “apology speech”, his eye blinking was recorded at 70 per minute. 7-15 a minute is considered ‘normal’, even though there are a FEW people whose eyes blink less and some whose blink more naturally.
Like controlling pupil dialation, controlling eye blinks is very difficult to control. It takes a lot of concious intention to do so. Most people who are not good liars tend to want to NOT MAKE AS MUCH EYE CONTACT when lying to you, and to distract you with a few physical gestures. Their voices might go either up or down an octave also. Again, you can mimic eye contact by focusing on the space between her eyes and then playact giving maximum “earnestness” in the look you wear on your face while really avoiding her eyes.
Hogan admitted in speeches that getting the “nodding virus” going in speeches was easiest accomplished by focusing on females in the audience to his left (their right) and trying to make eye contact with the one’s he thought would find him attractive. He’d look for the “big eyes” and start trying to get them to nod in agreement, and the general mood of the place would follow because nodding heads spread throughout a room of easily led lemmings, er…..people.
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Hogan mentioned another little trick was called “mirroring and pacing”.
If seated across from a woman, right eyes lined up, and you two begin a conversation, and you notice she speaks faster than you. What do you do? He said that by slightly speeding up your delivery you might make her feel more comfortable still. If she speaks slower than you, you might want to slow down your own speech to come closer to matching hers to make her more comfortable.
He also mentioned that slightly mimicing her physical posture might also make her more comfortable with you at first.
Once youve been in conversation for a few minutes, you can alter your physical posture, and slowly beging to slow down or speed up your words-per-minute and she will probably subconciously mimic YOU. He noted that its easier to slow down speaking than to speed it up, but again and again he has found that if you can pace a partners speaking at first meeting, they will be more comfortable with you.
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I dont think any of these have a huge effect individually, but if used together, they can probably facilitate comfort more easily and all the PUA literature Ive seen for free on the net emphasize that building comfort is indeed important if you want to avoid last-minute-defenses, etc.
Hogan went on about a few techniques to use “anchoring” that are kinda far-fetched, but I’ll quickly mention them.
He says that if you slightly touch her somewhere when giving her a compliment during the date in your natural voice (dont whisper) four or five times surreptitiously, you will get her to associate something good with that touch. This is especially true if you say or do something amusing when giving her the compliment and simultaneously toucing her arm, gently ewbowing her side, brushing her hand (nice diamond right, so tasteful,…..etc).
Therefore later on that night you might be able to touch her in the same way when you ask her to come back to your house for a drink, she will be associating your compliments or humor and voice with that touch. She is more likely to say “yes” even if her mind is telling her “I don’t really know him very well yet”.
This is him, not me, suggesting this as a technique. Its called Neuro-Linguistic Programming and is associated with a PUA named Ross Jeffries. Jeffries got it from two professors at The University of California Santa Cruz in the 1970’s and it was use to help people overcome phobias or extreme shyness. Some people say NLP is pure bullshit and I admit that I have no idea if it works, but some PUA’s swear by it.
Anyway, anchoring this way is an excuse for “kino” and Mystery, Roissy, Style, David DeAngelo, Tyler Durden, the really good-looking European PUA, and about every other PUA Ive ever heard of believes in Kino, so throwing it in probably doesn’t hurt and gets her to not-so-boldy notice that you touched her and therefore makes her more comfortable still.
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Attraction is not a choice.
Whether or not one acts on attraction certainly is.
They dont know they are aroused huh? Are you conteding that women don’t know that their pussies are wet? Any of you ladies out there not know when some guy gets you wet?
You’re making the very flawed assumption that wetness is always indicative of arousal: it isn’t.
Viewing a picture of food may make your mouth water, but it in no way follows that this will compel you to eat, or even want to eat.
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David Alexander says:
“You do realize that under the old world order, she only wants me for my money, and in the new world order, she only wants me for my game. In either situation, the female would never choose based on her loving the true me.”
David, you don’t love the true you. Why the fuck would any woman?
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Anonymous wrote:
“You’re making the very flawed assumption that wetness is always indicative of arousal: it isn’t.
Viewing a picture of food may make your mouth water, but it in no way follows that this will compel you to eat, or even want to eat.”
—————————————————————————–
Lets apply this standard to men shall we?
Lets say, just because we can, that twenty men are made to watch gay porn, videos of baboons fucking, dogs fucking, lesbian action, and straight sex.
Lets say a subset of those twenty men got larger and harder erections as measured by scientific instruments when watching the baboons, gay sex,and dogs fucking over the weak hard-ons they got watching lesbian action and straight sex.
Lets say those men all identified as “straight”.
Would you say they were lying when they identified as straight?
Would you say that their hard-ons “dont prove anything” or that their hard-ons were some kind of protective mechanism to defend themselves if they were raped by baboons or other men?
Are you saying that getting a hard-on while watching videos of gay men having gay sex are indicitive “that you would not even WANT to fuck” them as you put it?
11Minutes posted links to that study on his blog, and shortly thereafter his blog got suspended by WordPress. 11Minutes, who is a smart dude, openly wondered if this information is so incendiary to women—-the truth about their sexual nature—-that its one of those lies that*has* to be accepted. Someone kept flagging his blog because he posted that one study, that was highlighted by the New York Times. The truth is very dangerous to some folks who want to keep the myth of female prudery alive out there.
Straight men DID NOT get hard ons when watching animals fuck, other nude men, men excercising………………..but I guess that doesn’t mean they aren’t excited by the same right? I mean the physical sexual arousal of their organ doesn’t prove anything right?
You cant prove a pervert is a pedophile if his genitalia gets engorged if the police show him kiddie porn, right? I mean, hell he DENIED it, right?
Ever wonder why some of us LOVE science and some of us really are uncomfortable with it? I’ll tell you why………….scientific testing can find out the truths that many of us are indeed uncomfortable with. Men by their nature like to solve problems, not endlessly talk about them and come to a bullshit ‘consensuses’ following the alpha-girlz about what to do about them. If this planet was run by ‘wymyn’, we wouldn’t even have very good grass huts.
I respectfully disagree with you “anonymous”. I think women are attracted to many things they dont want men to know about. Y’know, the hunky young mechanic that changes their oil with all the tatoos that is so -beneath- her? The one with the earring, muscles, and spikey hair. Yes, HIM. They may denigrate what a loser they think he is to that friend in her car that mentions him, but think to themselves privately “I wished my husband was built like that” and “I wish my husband had a bulge like that”, even though they’d never admit it aloud.
Men on the other hand, will straight out tell you that the white-trash chick with the tatoos pouring coffee at Shoneys may have never read a book in her life, but they bet that she would be a great fuck.
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Tokyo —
If you are talking about MMA, or Boxing, in terms of being a money-making professional, well most successful boxers started in Golden Gloves at age 9 or so. Some earlier. With various neighborhood trainers. Just as Tiger Woods was taught by his dad at a very young age the fundamentals of Golf swings.
You can certainly enjoy fitness, or basic proficiency of a musical instrument, and play “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” on the saxophone, but you will not be able to play with professionals. Chuck Liddell, to use one example, studied Karate from age 12. Randy Couture, was a High School Wrestler (and probably Junior High as well). By the time Liddell was a professional fighter, he already had about twenty years experience in various striking arts, Couture in wrestling (his career was distinguished in the Army and as an Olympic athlete) for about the same length of time. They did not have think, just “be” in the Octagon. Heck even Lesnar was a High School Wrestler.
It does indeed take a lifetime to master an art, Liddell and Couture would not tell you any different than Bruce Lee did in his book, or Lee’s noted disciple, Daniel Inosanto. [Chinese martial arts are hardly “obscure” and form the foundation for most fighting styles, excepting indigenous European ones such as Savate. Kali, Escrima, Silat, various Japanese forms of Karate, Japanese and Brazilian Ju-Jitsu, the latter derived from the former, AND Savate all are generally passed down mostly from father to son as a “family” art, usually at a young age.]
Nearly every Master martial artist I’ve read, or spoken to personally, has noted that to be truly useful in a fight, i.e. save your life from some one trying to kill you, often with a weapon, with any level of skill, requires years of dedication and hard work. Increased fitness, confidence, mastery of fear, all are benefits of martial arts training. But they won’t do much against a determined adversary with a weapon.
Because all agree — it takes years to burn into muscle memory the automatic responses required for success.
Some as Dave from Hawaii points out, might be completely gifted. Some might have other genetic gifts. Most won’t. Average men are … average. On average. Joe Average kick-boxer is not going to be competitive with Liddell. Or a Silat Grand Master. Joe Average musician won’t tour with professional musicians.
Question: is this enough minimal skill to make most men more successful, marginally, than they would be without PUA? I think, probably not. Because to achieve the level of mastery probably requires, outside a few genetically lucky guys, or those able to shell out for a boot camp for a year simply trying to pick up women every day for a year, ala Style, just far too much practice. Up against guys with far greater skill levels as competition.
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whiskey
It doesn’t take a lifetime. That’s just mystical mumbo jumbo that you never seem to hear outside of martial arts.
I was referring to obscure Chinese martial arts, like family styles known only to a few people. The usual way of learning a martial art is to join a school.
Years, yes. Decades, no.
Weapons aren’t magic items that will magically make a person invincible.
Joe Average doesn’t have to be competitive with Liddell. If you refuse to do something because you’ll never be the best in the world, you might as well just kill yourself. Seriously.
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To gain minimal skill as a martial artist and musician takes little effort, but has little payoff.
That’s not correct. In fact, it’s the opposite. Learning something new has high initial payoff curve. Think of a clueless beta who suddenly learns that girls shit-test. Right there, his success with women will probably double.
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David Alexander’s evil twin Tokyo:
What part of one’s medical records contains files on the guy’s weaknesses, character flaws, ability to parry a challenge, and thinking on your feet?
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Hey David Alexander, since you like French music… check out this one you Youtube — type in “Mylene Farmer – Ainsi soit je” into the search window and pick the video that says “En Concert, 1989. How beautiful and sad she is here!” underneath.
Heh, start watching it at least through the halfway mark; might be your cup of tea.
Warning: watching that video will cause a life-threatening drop in testosterone.
(link in the next comment to avoid moderation delay)
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Link:
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By the way, I prefer women with rounder faces and straight dark hair, but her body is perfect in that video, especially her exquisite breasts.
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You are over complicating things
The majority of hot chicks (8-10s) are not super-smart:
Why? Because I am a sexist pig?
No.
See below
-They are young
-They use their bodies not their heads (eg, models, dancers, strippers etc)
-They are in low level jobs (eg, receptionist, assistants, waitress, intern)
-They dont make much money (see above)
-They are not educated (party schools, partiers, lazy); zero at Ivy v. U. S.FL
Now I realize their are many PhDs, Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers that are smoking hot and smart……….but, for every one of those, there are 20 if not 100 hot bimbos.
SO……….adjust your game to your audience.
All this talk of incremental, marginal, tangential strategy in Game is nonsense….
Sounds like your planning Desert Storm or Star trek…..
Break it down to her level:
-He’s a big spender….so I’ll get a big TIP
-He’s a big guy at the office…maybe he’ll need a asst. on that European trip
-He’s a Producer, I’m an actress ….
It aint working if its going over their head and not under yours!
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“You know everything about me, blah…”
That’s a needy statement, made by someone who’s realizing she put herself out there a little too much. Of course that’s when you think she’s in a good spot. She’s vulnerable.
I don’t understand your extreme fear of women dude. They’re so scary that you MUST HAVE THE UPPER HAND AT ALL TIMES? What do you think they’re going to do? Not want to sleep with you? Is that why you list, “A guy like me won’t want you!” as the scariest thing that can happen to a woman? Because it’s your biggest fear?
Accept that not everyone wants you. The rest of the world has to, and it’s a lot less pathetic than elaborate games intended to keep every woman you meet off balance.
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I can’t resist comparing your phrasing to the old trope “he swept me off my feet”. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it uttered in a way that suggested that she didn’t enjoy the ride.
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PA
Those have little if anything to do with reproductive qualities.
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Hey fellas,
This is one very interesting discussion, and I do agree w/one gentlemen who said that it does kina veer of into one could consider “advanced Game”, in that it deals with things and ideas that isn’t commonly discussed in the more pedestrian outlets and venues. But I say that’s a good thing; as much as I value a field tested approach, if one cannot reflect back on what they did and why, can they really ever move ahead to the next level-or simply “button down” on what they previously did?
See, this is why I say, that a huge element of Game is introspection, and quite frankly, not enough of this is discussed in the community. But its my view that the more introspective one is, the more likely they are to find and then work w/a style or method(s) that work best for them. Mystery calls this, at terms, calibration and experimentation.
Some martial arts are inherently more harder to learn than others. For example, you will invarably find more folks in a Tae Kwon Do dojo than an Aikido one. The reason? Because the former is, quite frankly, much easier to learn. The latter requires an intimate understanding of body mechanics, and as well, has a philosophical/spiritual component that to some may be complex or off putting. Aikido has one of the highest attrition rates among martial arts. These are only a few of the reasons for why that is.
And yet, to see Aikido in action is, in a word, beauty in motion. That’s not to say that TKD isn’t beuatiful, but the focus is different. Hopefully my brothers in the martial arts may want to elaborate on this point.
There are martial arts that can be learned and used relatively quickly. Kali is one such example, and the Filipino martial arts in general were designed to take the average dude and turn him into a formidable combatant in relatively short order. Now, of course, going against a stompdown master in the FMA, dude probably doesn’t stand much of a chance. But going against the average knucklehead out there, chances are high he’ll tie fire to said knucklehead’s ass.
So, transferring all this back over to Game, I think the same principles apply. NLP, for example, is what I would consider advanced martial arts. It takes time to really understand the principles, and is completely different in form even function from say, the Mystery Method, which focus on social dynamics. There’s a reason why most PUAs don’t mess around too much w/NLP, its the same reason why most martial artists don’t mess around w/things like Aikido. But that doesn’t mean that neither has value, or don’t work. Indeed, whatever works out in the field, works. Period. Its just a matter of finding something that works best for you.
So, I tend to agree w/others in the forum when they say that one need not be a master in a particular martial art to inflict damage in a fight, the same thing goes for Game. Take Dave From Hawaii for example. I’m pretty sure he won’t wind up on Thundercat’s next ranking of top PUAs in the known galaxy. Yet, DFH knows enough Game to keep his wife’s bottom happy, and really at the end of the day, that’s all that matters.
Personally, I don’t care about all the rankings and stuff like that. I aint in no competition w/any other PUA. Period. What I’m in it for is to live a better quality of life. Getting pussy on the regular is a much quality of life than not getting pussy (Dave Alex). And getting high quality pussy on the regular definitely makes for a much higer quality of life than not.
Yea, there’s something to be said for natural born or latent talent. Much has been said, for example, of the more natural talent of Black men wrt Game in comparison to Whites/Asians. However, and I’ve said this before, there’s a danger in that because it promotes laziness. For example, I know more about female human anatomy and psychology than my brothas do, which ultimately plays to may advantage. They can do something and it works, but they cannot explain how or why. I can.
So, yes, having natural ability is no doubt helpful in any area of life, but if one is not constantly seeking to improve themselves their natural abilities will tend to die and whither on the vine.
I don’t want that for me.
The average guy need not do what Style did in order to improve his life. All he need do is study a bit, dedicate some time to do it, and have the gumption to get out there and try different things. As Roissy himself has said, if, after one year, all you could get outta Game was sex w/a hot babe, would it be worth it?
I’ll answer for myself. Ms. Brown Sugah’s due here for ye another vaginal juice draining weekend session of sex. Obsidian’s answer?
YES.
Y’all holla back
O
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I call it, “calibrated vulnerability.”
Which is gentler than the more accurate “being a douchebag.”
“In the “beta” years of my marriage, it was: “Honey, what would you like to do tonight? Feel like a movie?”
Now, it’s: “Get ready, we’re going?”
Her: “Where?”
Me: “You’ll see. Just bring a jacket, it might get cold.””
I must be pickier than most guys here, because I simply could not tolerate a woman who required this sort of fucking coddling. I say “I want to see Movie X; would you like to see this movie, or would you rather see some other movie?” I clearly express my own preference so we have some direction if she doesn’t have a preference. I then ask my wife if she would like the movie so she doesn’t sit there for hours watching a movie she doesn’t like. Because my wife isn’t fucking lame and she is a fucking grownup, she can express a preference without needing me to engage in some 8th grade-level bullshit display of dominance.
“Here is Cajun’s classic article on subtext.”
Cajun offers great advice. Forget all this calibrating and whatnot. Simply method act – just believe you have already slept with the girl or girls, and act accordingly. Any teasing you do will be natural.
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Mylene Farmer – Ainsi soit je
I must thank you for the link, PA. This song is going to make it’s way on to the iPod.
BTW, Mylene Farmer was a part of the production team that turned Alizée into a star, and basically wrote the songs on the first two albums. Alizée parted ways Farmer before her third album.
Getting pussy on the regular is a much quality of life than not getting pussy (Dave Alex).
I don’t need the sex. I just want their company. 🙂
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Because my wife isn’t fucking lame and she is a fucking grownup,
Since you say you are married yourself, you might know enough to refrain from hurling unprovoked insults at another commenter’s wife. Dave is a cool guy and candid with certain things and is not some troll, so even if you disagree with him, take it easy, ‘kay?
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The NYT Female Sex Study is indeed quite the bomb, in many ways, and as you might have guessed, its been discussed in the PUA community as well. I think this is a good thing that we discuss it, and invite the ladies of the forum, to participate honestly about it.
I’m still on the fence in attempting what to make of the study, so I’ll just continue to enjoy reading along the comments.
The Obsidian
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Happy to oblige, DA. Sounds like you’re familiar with Mylene Farmer. Lest someone think that she’s too gloomy, she does a happy little performance when you search youtube for “Mylene Farmer – Deshabillez-moi (live at Grand Opera, 1988)”
A special treat comes in the final seconds of her performance, when her delightful little boobie comes out and says “peekaboo!”, unbeknownst to Youtube’s censors.
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You lie, Dave Alex. And everyone knows it.
“You will bow down before me, Jor-El; you, and eventually, your heirs!”
The Obsidian
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Tokyo —
You are missing the point. Which is competition. How well can Joe Average knowing a few PUA basic skills compete with Mystery, Style, Roissy, and the naturals?
The answer is, not very well. In fact it gets worse as the young population (under 35) is concentrated in a few coastal cities and Sunbelt megapolii. Where most young women and skillful PUA congregate. So Joe’s competition is not another Joe. It’s Roissy.
Can you take up guitar or any other instrument and expect to play in even a low-level touring indie band? The answer is no.
Weapons are not magic, but do give reach and amplify deadly force. It’s why serious fighting arts that aim to produce deadly results as quickly as possible start with weapons: Kali, Escrima, Silat, etc. It gives a competitive edge. No less an authority than Inosanto has written of this.
The analogy to weapons is status/social dominance/testosterone. I would not be shocked to see testosterone being an illicitly widely traded substance ala drugs, because it gives chemical advantage, a short-cut. Like women getting boob jobs to land the Alpha as they age. The other shortcut of course is using power to achieve dominance. Thought that one is harder to manage.
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All this talk about wide pupils and female interest.That has been known for a long time, and naturally women found a way to fake that, too.
aka Belladonna.
Guys, if you learn anything from this blog, learn that them ladies just ain’t what you think they are. Pump and dump. Repeat as necessary. A “faithful” woman is a woman who has run out of other options.
If you have to, pay for it, but never marry for it.
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What men reported made them horny on the keypad always matched how much blood flow went into their dicks. Men were HONEST. Women consistently LIED about what turned them on.
Z, please accept that you could be at least somewhat mistaken about this. The women had no particular reason to lie: they were taking part in an experiment, not chatting to friends or to a man at a party. If in fact they were lying to themselves, which is quite possible, then that opens up the possibility that they really don’t know when they are aroused. It really isn’t as obvious a state for a woman as for a man, as you must realise.
But I think something else might be at work for these women as well. Because arousal in a woman is a fairly complex state, and one that involves emotions as well as bodily responses, it’s possible for a woman’s body to be aroused even when her mind is not. Some women (as Michael Blowhard’s interview with a rape victim on his blog indicates) have orgasms during rape: this doesn’t really mean that being raped is something they like or enjoy, but only that their bodies’ purely instinctive responses take over, perhaps as a way of protecting them from injury during forced intercourse.
Rape, of course, is much more unpleasant than looking at pictures of people in sexual situations, but in those cases in which the women were unaware of their own arousal during that experiment, it might be because there was, as during rape, a strong disconnect between their bodily and their emotional response to the pictures.
This kind of thing isn’t completely unknown to men, either, especially when they are very young and easily aroused. My work has involved me with reading many case histories of the sexual abuse of teenage boys (and girls), and one of the things they sometimes say about it is that they responded to the attentions of their abusers with physical arousal, even though they were not then or ever attracted to men. Surely such a man could legitimately say that he wasn’t truly “turned on” by the experience, but only responding instinctively to being touched in a sexual way. This isn’t an exact analogy, but it describes a parallel phenomenon.
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Dizzy:
I don’t understand your extreme fear of women dude. They’re so scary that you MUST HAVE THE UPPER HAND AT ALL TIMES? What do you think they’re going to do? Not want to sleep with you?
Uh, pretty much.
Women don’t sexually respect (read: feel attraction for) a man whom they feel they can control.
All of this supposed “douchyness” and “manipulation” would not be necessary were it not for the inborn proclivities of your gender.
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Anyone who is worries about ‘Game saturation’, even in NYC or SF, is fooling themselves.
Most AFCs can’t even admit that something like Game can work. They still think that a fancier car or bigger biceps is the ticket.
Of the fraction of Betas who become newbies who try to learn Game, most can never do approaches consistently. Of the fraction that can do approaches, many still aren’t able to close the deal at comfort or seduction stages.
So, anyone who becomes moderately competent in Game will live in a paradise. It is irrelevant that 1% of the male population also knows Game.
Furthermore, just because you live in the same city as Mystery, Matador, or Ross Jeffries, if you think that whole city has been monoploized, you are nuts. Pro athletes, movie stars, and rock stars have existed for decades, and always scoop up the 10s, greatly outperforming even the top PUA. So the existence of a PUA in LA, NY, or Las Vegas is no indication that you have been crowded out as an intermediate-level PUA.
Hell, America is not even at lawyer saturation yet (the level at which lawyers are a large enough percentage of the population that their fees go down due there not being enough non-lawyers left to pay them all hefty fees). How can it be at PUA saturation?
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whiskey:
Can you take up guitar or any other instrument and expect to play in even a low-level touring indie band?
Uh, have you even *heard* some of these bands out today?
Technical proficiency is surely not among their priorities.
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“I’ll hold here. Anyone wanna take stab at which Jedi Obsidian most resembles?”
Mace Windu, because he is black.
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Clio,
So nice to see you back on here. As far as arousal, I think I might have a few methods that might work on you, such as my head between your legs for as long as you like, or other delicious pleasures.
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You all sound like dumbasses with poor social skills. Asking a girl questions about herself is the best way to get to know her, if the girl has not been asking questions back then she is not good at conversation and if she asks, “you know everything about me and I know nothing about you” it is because she is too lazy to ask you questions and change the flow of a conversation. And she likes talking about herself.
The best response is probably “ask me anything”.
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Chuck
“#When getting profoundly angry (fighting mad), sometimes you can taste the metallic taste in your mouth. Chrome-like.”
I’ve never heard this. Is it perhaps from increased blood flow causing an iron-ish taste?
Could be methyl mercury outgassing from his silver fillings. Anger may be making him grind his teeth.
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^ me.
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You know…
My schtick with Clio comes with a hefty dollop of performance art, and I’m not normally one who enjoys “sharing” the women whom I admire, but…
There is a part of me — a small part — which relishes the idea that one day — one glorious day — Clio awakens from her religious hypnosis, throws off those rusty shackles and restraints, and allows her unmitigated Id to shake free and finally experience all that she has denied herself for all those virginal years, in one single momentous orgy of carnal lust, with several men at once. Perhaps Patrick, PA and myself. Nothing but a writhing, sweaty mass of flesh, bonded by pure Love, with no words spoken, no noble sentiments expressed, nothing but a bacchanalian silence punctuated by animalistic grunts, high-pitched squeals, and those vacuum sounds that happen when fleshy concavities get stuck together. No orifices off limits. Just pure, open and inviting Desire.
P.S. This should happen in her classroom. On her desk.
P.P.S. Oh, and she would be wearing her hair in a bun and librarian glasses. Yeah. That’s the ticket.
P.P.P.S. This would only be for one day. Clio could go to confession the next Sunday, and the slate would be wiped clean.
P.P.P.P.S. Ten to one says she doesn’t reply to this.
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whiskey
It’s not like skilled PUAs are everywhere, and most people don’t seem to have problems finding a companion. PUA isn’t even a formal, structured discipline like a martial art, it’s a randon mixture of a lot of stuff and there’s no right or wrong way of doing it.
Correction: fighting arts that aim to produce deadly results with weapons. If you were only concerned about deadly results, you would just carry a handgun. But weapons are not always available or the right choice, and someone who has trained a year with knives will lose to a boxer if he doesn’t have a knife with him.
It was once commonplace to fight with knives in the Philippines (not sure if it still is), that’s why they have so many arts that focus on knife fighting. Swords were used in Europe, Japan, China and other places.
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Obsidian,
Ive thought about the -psychology- that takes place during a neg.
I wonder if the neg’s true purpose is to make her feel self-conscious.
Think about it. You walk up to a group, and she is there in a snug dress, and you speak a few opening pleasantries to one of the other chicks…………………………………………………………AND THEN YOU LOOK AT HER FUNNY, tilt your head slightly and say, “you’ve got something in your eye” as if you are a doctor inspecting her on a gurney (seventies doctor voice).
There she is, wondering if she should take her finger and wipe her eye like a three-year-old. (Where do I wipe my finger??!!!??). (Everyone is LOOKING AT ME NOW, but not in the way that I’D hoped). Then the player easily produces a kleenex and hand it to her with a grimace on his face as he turns to speak to another chick in the group.
Now she is embarrassed. (Goddamit, he’s a bit too confident and he openly questioned my hygeine,…………….and when I wiped there actually was a little sleep in my eye, and a little ball of smudged up mascara too!!!………….Im gonna say-something!-and that cocky motherfucker is going to -see-me and that Im attractive before he bails on us, look at him rocking back and forth there and glancing at his watch, he’s probably waiting on some chick he is supposed to meet here…………….OH, I HOPE I DONT NEED TO BLOW MY NOSE OR SOMETHING TOO……DOES THIS DRESS HAVE ANY LINT ON IT???!!!).
Obsidian,
Remember that great neg in the comments one commenter claimed worked for a “natural” he knew? The, “You dress EXACTLY like my mother” one? I think the same reaction would be produced————–SELF CONCIOUSNESS. Her uber-smug-“proudness” that so many guys have oogled her that night is “pinged” a tad.
The player hasn’t sent any of the normal cues that her subconcious mind usually notices (but she could never put into words) like an split-second “eye-lift”, or the sneaky second glance, and the unintentional change in the tone of his voice when he spoke to her (in fact he might have changed his tone to -friendly-when speaking to her 15 lb. overweight friend who really does have big tits……………maybe the son-of-a-bitch is a tit-man………..are my tits BIG ENOUGH???????????)
Looking at her hair “funny” might make her self-concious, looking at a piece of her jewelry as if trying to conceal amusement/disdain, telling her to blow her nose, telling her to wipe her eye, telling her that her mascara is running or lipstick is smeared………………..ASKING HER IF YOU NEED TO BLOW YOUR NOSE, as if you couldn’t care less about attracting her, or taking out a kleenex and wiping your own eye in front of her (In the Mystery Method, blowing one’s nose in front of a chick is actually used as an example of a neg).
Any of these things calculated to make her feel self-concious might tilt the power in the conversation to the port side just a tad…………………or at least make her feel the need to “show him Im attractive”.
I wonder if this self-conciousness is the psychological secret to the neg’s effectiveness? Surely a psychologist has had the time to read and think about the Mystery Method by now, but google searches dont reveal any deconstruction of it as of yet.
Note: I do think the spoken neg, (i.e. “your nose wiggles when you talk”) a la the old girl network might be a “tell” in some of the more sophisticated areas where a player might get called out by some of the cockblockers. Ive seen girls on a couple of these forums warn that many of them know what a “neg” is and look for them early on.
Ive seen some of the PUA’s discuss using other “starters” like “statement, statement, question” to initiate contact. Ive not delved into this stuff deeply enough to know all the “opening” tactics.
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I approach women by asking them “do you like me?” While they’re thinking of an answer, I draw my katana and decapitate them.
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I approach women by asking them “do you like me?” While they’re thinking of an answer, I draw my katana and decapitate them.
You trying out for Comment of the Month? Came off flat, dude, and a little creepy. Take some classes from Kick a Bitch or VK.
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I was joking.
I don’t cut off the entire head, I just slice it a little.
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OK, that was actually kind of good. Wierd, but not bad.
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I am a research psychologist and I am thinking about testing some of the PUA ideas. Any thoughts on hypotheses? I think testing negs would be a good place to start.
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“I am a research psychologist and I am thinking about testing some of the PUA ideas. Any thoughts on hypotheses? I think testing negs would be a good place to start.”
gtfo
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Tupac — point taken but I was thinking of a professional sideman. Higher skill level required.
As for the comments about saturation for PUA skills, well while NYC or SF or LA may be “big” in population, the available women who are single, attractive, and not completely entangled in a relationship is low. It’s not as if there are that many women we are talking about. NYC’s population is around 6-7 million in the Metro area. Of that population, I would estimate there are about 300,000 single women, who are moderately attractive at least, not in a heavy relationship and open to having one or at least sex. That number narrows down considerably when you consider available social circles and meeting places and the like. Let’s be honest, if you live in the DC area you will be competing with Roissy. And the few men like him. [As for lawyers, we are at saturation level, check out Half Sigma’s posts on not top law school lawyers. BIGLAW is an exception, most Lawyers are now facing outsourcing dangers excepting litigators.]
And I think there is enough widespread knowledge of PUA that the basic concepts (out there, free on the internet and available in bookstores) can be widely applied by most men dissatisfied. CBS’s “the Mentalist” had a storyline with PUA, conceding in fact that it worked, if applied right. Heck the Lead character is constant cocky/funny.
Then the situation is even worse: top-end competitors like Roissy and other highly skilled PUA able to have 3-4 girls on a string at once (removing multiples of themselves from the potential dating pool) and Joe Average now just as competitive as he was before, it’s a “Red Queen’s Race” ala Lewis Carroll and Ed Driscoll — running in place twice as fast just to not fall behind.
—————-
As for the Philippines, this probably gives a good overview of what it’s all about. Grandmaster Illustrismo in the video is age 90. This style of fighting, sometimes to deadly ends, still holds sway today in the very violent Philippines. It is supremely effective, however to reach useful levels of skill, i.e. survive a knife/stick attack, requires considerable training, even in the home of the art with the value self-evident daily, masters are still rare. This link with Jason Chambers, MMA champ, in the Philippines in a “friendly” match gives you a sample of skill vs. beginner. Note: Chambers is an MMA champ, he still gets his butt kicked in the match with his opponent clearly holding back. Note how the stick increases striking range and power. I would imagine Testosterone coupled with PUA mastery would do the same, by analogy, wrt success with women.
Mastery of any subject is hard. Only a few become great. I’m not arguing that attempting PUA is useless, only that I doubt quite a bit that it will “fix” the problem of Joe Average getting priced out of the relationship market any more than martial arts studios can “fix” the crime problem.
In that I differ significantly from Obsidian, yourself, and probably Dave in Hawaii. I think most guys can understand the basics. Being able to apply them instinctively and “flowing like water” in the application? Only a very few.
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I think most guys can understand the basics. Being able to apply them instinctively and “flowing like water” in the application? Only a very few.
Whiskey, I think you are an insightful guy but you are the personification of pessimism. What you say above is only true if you assume the worst case scenario. Your kind of thinking leads to paralysis and despair, which is the kind of writing I can only hande in tiny doses. That’s actually why I quit visitng AmRen. Great site, but the commenters there make me want to slit my wrist. While listening to Mylene Farmer’s “Ainsi soit je.”
I reiterate my earlier comment: there is a high initial payoff from learning the basics of something. You do that, and you are already closer to “flowing like water” than you were a bit earlier.
In my own example: I learned Game at 31 by spending all night going through Doc Love’s article archives at AskMen. This was after aI sank into a black depression because a girl I was really into dumped me.
So I picked up the basics on Doc Love. I internalized some principles that gave me that “a-ha!” feeling. I recognized some counterproductive things I’ve been doing and stopped doing. I memorized a few gems like “God invented the telephone for one reason only: to spend no more than three minutes arranging your next date” and so I stopped getting LJBF’s by girls by yapping with them on the phone. And I started to pay attention to slogans like “it’s easy to attract a girl; the hard part is keeping her.”
Basics, dude. A night of reading, and some practice over the next few months of dating a string of girls, and a year later I met an awesome girl 10+ years younger than me I ended up marrying and I’m keepin’ her happy.
So I didn’t right away become someone who could go head to head with advanced alphas at a club, but so fucking what? Just learnign the basics got me a long way from where I was just two weeks earlier.
That glass of fine Whiskey is half-full, dude.
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in one single momentous orgy of carnal lust, with several men at once. Perhaps Patrick, PA and myself.
The goggles, they do nothing!
You lie, Dave Alex. And everyone knows it.
I’m too porn addicted to bang normal women, and I’m an attention whore, so I crave female attention to prop up my emotions.
“You will bow down before me, Jor-El; you, and eventually, your heirs!”
Brilliant quote. 🙂
That glass of fine Whiskey is half-full, dude.
I drunk the Rum of my ancestors.
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So, from reading all these posts, it seems that noone here believes or operates from a sincere viewpoint – or expects to. Ever.
It seems that everyone here exists in the superficial plane. And that (extrapolating here) all interaction with anyone (whether with women or colleagues or bosses or family) is based on cynicism and manipulation.
Is this true?
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Z: not to be crude or anything, but it seems there’s a need to be explicitly explained to you: it may be my lack of experience or something, but feeling wet in that general area could be mistaken for a hell of a lot of other things that don’t involve arousal including tight jeans, natural secretions, temperature…
Internet = TMI.
Let me just emphasise that a cornerstone of the scientific method is that the only ‘true’ thing provided by an experiment is the data (assuming it’s repeatable, unbiased etc): what you interpret from it and the implications is a different kettle of fish.
Just for the sake of pedantry: One flaw in the study is that they used slightly different methods for measurement in the different sexes (and this is kind of unnecessary, both have blood flow so you could’ve just measured that). You could argue it’s the same thing and I would be inclined to agree, but it’s still one glaring flaw even without perusing the abstracts etc.
Suggestions for further research would be looking into the reasons for the differing results: one hypothesis could be that men — being more aware of their physical arousal — could suppress and/or exaggerate their reactions mentally to fit in with their percieved identity. Another could be hormonal factors in sexual development. Another could be that lying is involved, so perhaps the use of lie detection could provide some indicator, etc. The long and short of it is we can argue about it from different experiences and perspectives, but if you’re looking for objective proof, you need more data.
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Eh, just to state that sometimes it sounds like PUAs expect too much from yourselves/each other. I’m beginning to expect too much from men due to reading this blog. All that potential is just amazing, but obviously people don’t operate like this all their life all the time.
You have to go through this kind of heartless analysis, though, if you want results or to arrive at some ‘truth’.
As they say, you have to know the rules, before you break them.
There’re some things that can be established by PUAs to work, but aren’t universally adopted due to personal distaste/morality/limits. A successful PUA doesn’t have to do all of it.
I’m saying this to remind myself, as much as reminding anyone.
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whiskey
But under MMA rules, it’s Chambers who would prevail. Also, he spent only a few days practising.
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devi,
For your information, Indian women are the most materialistic of all women, and are the most corrupted as soon as they get a bit of power. They mistreat their husbands.
Plus, the fact that they had a lock on Indian men for so long is why Indian women don’t put any effort into their appearance the way other women do.
However, a level playing field, where many Indian men now dating white and Chinese women, is now forcing Indian women to compete in a manner that they don’t yet know how to.
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Racer and Tupac, give it a rest, will you?
There you go, Tupac, I answered you.
And btw, I’m going to out on a limb and ask you where, here on this website or on my own, I actually said or even implied that I was a virgin?
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Tood, why do you assume that she’s Indian, and what in the hell does what you just said have to do with her question?
See, this is how projection gets started. Some of you guys bring racist comments into your answers to simple questions, and then accuse us women of bringing race into it, because of your own inabilities to just be human.
Devi, not everyone here is actually superficial, but in every culture there is some level of social lubrication needed to get things done. Here, men are focussed on what’s effective first, and then hash out the moral issues second. Men tend to discuss things in a harsher manner than women, and as you can see, some specific guys have trouble not taking things personally even though they claim superior logic.
I recommend doing better than them and not taking things too personally. Often the guys here are saying what guys offline are thinking, so it’s useful in that regard.
I certainly feel relieved from much guilt and pressure to be nicer to men. I’ve adopted a position of being merely civil unless someone shows extraordinary independence, and this has cleared my life of much unnecessary drama.
It’s not that I’ve come to see men as bad, but this is one of the few places where they honestly air their contempt. Since I’ve learned that most men I encounter look down on me for a variety of reasons, rejecting them is much easier. It keeps my schedule clear for those who can handle life, and the fact that every women isn’t Barbie, and we all get old, and eventually we’re all going to die.
So if you stick around, you’ll find that despite the harsh language, this site is about equally empowering for men who need to man up, and women who would like men to man up.
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whiskey:
How well can Joe Average knowing a few PUA basic skills compete with Mystery, Style,
Roissy, and the naturals?
So Joe’s competition is not another Joe. It’s Roissy.
top-end competitors like Roissy and other highly skilled PUA able to have 3-4 girls
on a string at once
Let’s be honest, if you live in the DC area you will be competing with Roissy.
And the few men like him.
I’m sorry, can you repeat that? Your voice sounds garbled with Roissy’s dick in your mouth.
Good God. This kind of hero worship almost makes me physically ill. But that’s the price I pay for being an alpha, I guess.
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“Since you say you are married yourself, you might know enough to refrain from hurling unprovoked insults at another commenter’s wife. Dave is a cool guy and candid with certain things and is not some troll, so even if you disagree with him, take it easy, ‘kay?”
Good point. Even in an anonymous internet forum, potshots at wives are still poor form. I should have stated my point more civilly.
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Folks, folks…let us refrain from these excessive sci-fi quotes and analogies: The Ewok Adventure was, most decidedly no Shakespeare, but in fact, rape for my eyes – and nerdherds are never kwls.
The more Klingon you speaketh, the less pussy you getteth.
Firepower hath spoke
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http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/life-and-style/sex-and-the-older-woman/2009/02/22/1235237423253.html
This is off topic, but, since we often discuss male female relationships on this blog, I thought I would just drop it in here, since this is the current, active thread.
For men contemplating marriage, just one more reason to just say no. I doubt anybody could run game on the same woman for 25 years.
Of course, after visiting this blog site for a few months, I doubt very many men would consider marriage desirable.
It is interesting that they say the the growing importance of testosterone as she ages leads a woman to have better sex and be more promiscuous. I don’t believe men who use that defense get a very sympathetic hearing from women, or the judge.
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I wonder why women find this study so troubling. If it were about, say, “golddigging, cumguzling, sluts” the normal reaction would be, “that’s THOSE other women”, not me.
I seriously doubt any woman accurately can say what’s going on in another woman’s head. A good example is the woman who complains about her deadbeat, no good guy, but keeps going back to him. Even the complainer has no idea what’s going on in her head which is why she has no control over it.
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Clio:
Racer and Tupac, give it a rest, will you?
Yes ma’am. 0:->
There you go, Tupac, I answered you.
I’m afraid you will just have to resign yourself to the fact that you inadvertantly turn a lot of men on.
(I would like Michael Blowhard’s considered opinion on this matter.)
And btw, I’m going to out on a limb and ask you where, here on this website or on my own, I actually said or even implied that I was a virgin?
Well, there was that admission of yours regarding the Catholic injunction dealing with self-pleasure. And the fact that you have never been married…
Regardless — I was something of a class clown in my childhood and I suppose I never outgrew the need to poke others’ egos with a pointy stick. 🙂
P.S. –
Come out Virginia, dont let me wait
You catholic girls start much too late
Aw but sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one
They showed you a statue, told you to pray
They built you a temple and locked you away
But they never told you the price that you pay
For things that you might have done…..
Only the good die young
Thats what I said
Only the good die young
You might have heard I run with a dangerous crowd
We aint too pretty we aint too proud
We might be laughing a bit too loud
Aw but that never hurt no one
Come on Virginia show me a sign
Send up a signal I’ll throw you the line
The stained-glass curtain you’re hiding behind
Never lets in the sun
Darlin’, only the good die young
You got a nice white dress and a party on your confirmation
You got a brand new soul
Mmmm, and a cross of gold
But Virginia they didnt give you quite enough information
You didnt count on me
When you were counting on your rosary
(oh woah woah)
They say theres a heaven for those who will wait
Some say its better but I say it aint
I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun…
You know that only the good die young
You say your mother told you all that I could give you was a reputation
Aww she never cared for me
But did she ever say a prayer for me? oh woah woah
Come out come out Virgina dont let me wait,
The catholic girls start much too late
Sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one,
U know that only the good die young
Im telling u baby
Only the good die young
Ooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooo oooooooooo…
😉
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Sara’s got the Code Snapped Shut Pussy where roissy types are concerned. OOOOOO WHEEEEE.
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Joel, hormonal changes aren’t the same thing as ethical changes. I see the changes of life as evidence of why it’s important to select a woman whose sense of honor is wider than the space between her legs.
Once a woman with no honor’s kids are grown, and she’s no longer fertile, she no longer has a reason to be faithful to you or even stay with you. After 20 years, she can leave you and take half, and not give a flying fart about your feelings because she never gave a crap about you as more than a sperm donor and income provider in the first place.
Goodness…if a woman’s sex drive is higher, one would think she’d be even more motivated to have sex with her husband, and it would seem better even if in technique it maybe wasn’t. Testosterone unmasking ought to make a chick more ambitious and competitive, not more promiscuous.
This is another case of hormones and natural life cycles being used to justify stupid behavior.
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Hey Tupac – Billy Joel got it so wrong, you can only feel sorry for the guy.
It’s the “saints” who will be laughing in the great beyond, enjoying pleasures both sublime and carnal. The sinners, they’ll just get to watch from their cold world of grey shadows while weeping and gnashing their teeth.
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PA:
Hey Tupac – Billy Joel got it so wrong, you can only feel sorry for the guy.
I wonder if Billy Joel looks back wistfully to the days when he was banging groupie trim like it was going out of style whenever he thinks about his “mature” decision to get married to Christy Brinkley — who later dropped his ass for Dirk Squarejaw?
It’s the “saints” who will be laughing in the great beyond, enjoying pleasures both sublime and carnal. The sinners, they’ll just get to watch from their cold world of grey shadows while weeping and gnashing their teeth.
PA, you’re the kind of guy I’d want to get my back in a gang fight, but I can’t say I’d be inviting you to any parties.
Doesn’t make sense not to live for fun…
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you’re the kind of guy I’d want to get my back in a gang fight, but I can’t say I’d be inviting you to any parties.
Dude, my handle “PA”stands for Party Animal.
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Dude, my handle “PA”stands for Party Animal.
Well fuck it. Let’s hit the slopes this weekend.
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[…] compares PUA to Jedis and Sith. How can I not appreciate that? In the Jedi world, there are 7 official forms, or styles of combat. […]
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