Fat Or Not Fat?

« When You Know You’re Doing It Right

Chris Brown Is Alpha »

Fat Or Not Fat?

February 22, 2009 by CH

christina

toccara

Posted in Hungry Hungry Hippos | 237 Comments

237 Responses

on February 22, 2009 at 2:01 pm miamiyeahh

I voted them fat. Please understand that this is with the caveat that I would still totally do them.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:02 pm Anonymous

no question- both are fat.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:03 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOES YO

First one fat, would not do.
Second one chubby, would do, will definitely become fat in the next 5 years without a serious diet/exercise program.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:08 pm Owen

Um, great hair but I’m just not the slightest bit interested.

I met a pretty girl at a party, nice dancer, interesting conversation, fascinatingly spiritual, and a lot thinner than the chicks in these photos. But still obviously well plumper than she should be. I didn’t even think of wanting her number even though she was trying to hint at giving it to me. And I’m desperately lonely.

Really, stop working on the hair, girls, and sell your car to spend the proceeds on a bicycle, a gym membership, and a good low-fat or low-sugar cookbook. Give up the McDonalds and Haagen Dasz and walk to work. Those ladies could really find their way back to human-size, if not slim, within a year or so. And they’re young enough to have prime dating years ahead of them after that.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:11 pm zbignu

Fat fucks are FAT

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:13 pm Anonymous

Both could be fat, but the bottom borderline because she’s more attractive, so I voted “not fat.” As an average build white guy in my 20’s, I’d immediately leave a club where I saw girls like fat whitey, but fat darky is intimating. I’d do her, but it would obviously be her decision, and the game to keep the proper facade do so would be exhausting. I say that as an attractive guy who has no problem picking up chicks in bars.

The punchline is probably “oh, but these women are both the same weight!” Well, that weight is clearly not equally distributed. A small Asian girl who weighed as much as these two would look like she belonged belly-down on an artic iceflow.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:14 pm Michael Blowhard

In my single years I’d definitely have been open to sleeping with both of them. It’d all depend on whether we’d hit it off, had a nice vibe going, etc. Neither one is my type, but I don’t find anything wrong or non-sexy about a few big handfuls of flesh. But I like the meat I eat to be juicy and fatty too.

Yeah, they both need to be careful.

An interesting diff is that my brain says that the white girl is near-porky while the black girl is curvy — which means that I have somewhat different standards for white and black figures.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:15 pm Kick a Bitch

both are fat, would only let them give me head. i would also try my best to gizz on their face.

granted, this would apply to most women but wth, figured i would toss it out there.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:16 pm anony

my crystal ball on these women shows: burned out pancreatic islet cells and insulin receptors—–>renal failure—>hypertension—–> dialysis—>transplant—->steroids and immunosuppressants—-puffy face, fistualated arms, wheel chairs, chronic hospitalization

Also, burned out knees and ankles—>joint replacements

very ugly without lifestyle changes

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:17 pm Kick a Bitch

and omfg… i can’t stand how much effort fat bitches put into their makeup and hair. if the only spent that much time in a gym they wouldn’t have nearly as much to worry about when it came time to find someone to stuff their vaginal canals with hot beef injections. mind you, high-quality hot beef injections.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:19 pm Anonymous

The first one would be hot if she got into shape.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:22 pm Eddie A.

I voted the first girl fat. Her stomach is as wide, if not wider than her hips and chest.

I voted the second girl, Toccara, as not fat because I would bang her and I don’t bang fat girls. Her waist is way slimmer than her chest, but mostly because she has gigantic boobs. Her waist is also slimmer that her hips, but probably not quite the 0.7 ratio. She could be fat one day, but in her new work out video she looks like she has slimmed down some from this photo.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:29 pm Keith

I voted both fat, but the second one is way up on the ol’ blood flow scale. Totally beats bridge girl from the photo contest.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:31 pm Keith

“I voted the second girl, Toccara, as not fat because I would bang her and I don’t bang fat girls.”

Then the word “fat” has no meaning in your world.

The second girl is well in the intersection of my Venn diagram of “objectively fat” and “I want her.”

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:33 pm tsurupettan

Owen: Really, stop working on the hair, girls, and sell your car to spend the proceeds on a bicycle, a gym membership, and a good low-fat or low-sugar cookbook.

Alas, growing hair requires much less effort — it’s the path of least resistance. But it’s the same thing with beta males, too; how many aspiring players would rather study a book on body language, rather than get experienced in cold approach?

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:33 pm Anonymous

what are some of you on about? look at the side rolls between their tits and underarms. THEYRE BOTH FAT FUCKS. for chrissakes.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:38 pm Keith

“what are some of you on about? look at the side rolls between their tits and underarms.”

Saw ’em. Still want the second one.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:39 pm Chase

I think the difference is the 1st girl is bigger than she SHOULD be, while the 2nd girl has a bigger frame to begin with, and is better proportioned. So the 1st girl needs to lose weight, while the 2nd just needs to stay toned and tight. I voted both fat, but Toccara, I’m changing my opinion…

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:41 pm Chase

Anonymous, if you look at Toccara’s King Magazine spread, you might change your mind, as I did.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:41 pm Keith

“So the 1st girl needs to lose weight, while the 2nd just needs to stay toned and tight. I voted both fat, but Toccara, I’m changing my opinion.”

The second one would still benefit from losing weight; she’d become outrageous. As it is now, she’s still very sexually appealing in my book.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:48 pm Randall Parker

Michael Blowhard, The black woman looks more proportionate. Effectively her large breasts make her fat in other places look like it fits.

Also, her fat in other places is well distributed. A fat belly with narrow thin hips doesn’t work. Fat works better if it maintains ratios between breasts, waist, and hips.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:49 pm Keith

“Fat works better if it maintains ratios between breasts, waist, and hips.”

Exactly. From a reproductive standpoint, the ratio’s the thing.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:52 pm roissy

Exactly. From a reproductive standpoint, the ratio’s the thing.

not exactly. past a certain threshold of fat fuckery, the magical 0.7 waist-hip ratio loses its allure. toccara has gone past it.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:52 pm PA

Both fat, though technically the second one not necessarily so by a strict medical definition. Big bones and all.

I’d have to be very, very drunk and they’d have to act super-seductively for me to even consider sex with either one of them. Very drunk.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:55 pm Keith

“the magical 0.7 waist-hip ratio loses its allure. toccara has gone past it.”

That’s where you get well into individual differences.

You and I can have exactly the same standards with objective beauty/symmetry/slenderness, and exactly the same standards on waist/hip ratios, but we can still have different tastes in women because we each have different weights on how those things drive our sexual attraction.

My weight on .7 is clearly much higher than yours. Differences in weights on different objective components still drives variations in desire.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 2:57 pm Beta guy

Both are fat. Betas only want slim princesses. Which we don’t get.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:03 pm Chuck

haha

i have a feeling some of you guys’ standard on this board are higher than your standards in real life.

also, there’s nothing worse in this world than a fat girl with small tits…..that goes for Tiffani Amber Thiessen +100 pounds in the first picture

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:06 pm alpha and omega, never beta

They’re both fat. I’d fuck them both in the ass, then make them suck me off till I blow on their face. when i’m done i push them away with my foot on their fivehead, then kick them the fuck out.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:07 pm Keith

“i have a feeling some of you guys’ standard on this board are higher than your standards in real life.”

Well of course. This board is all about showing how cool you are to other guys by claiming you’d reject all these women because you’re so cool that you have the high standards because you have your pick and blahbitty blahbitty blahbitty.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:07 pm whiskey

They are both fat.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:11 pm roissy

fatty fucker keith:
That’s where you get well into individual differences.

the individual differences between men regarding ideal female BMI pale in comparison to the universal standards.

but we can still have different tastes in women because we each have different weights on how those things drive our sexual attraction.

too many pounds over ideal BMI of 17.5 – 23, and whether the woman has a 0.7 waist-hip ratio won’t matter. it’ll be rendered useless by the surrounding layers of blubber.

My weight on .7 is clearly much higher than yours.

what’s the fattest woman you ever fucked?

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:11 pm el topo

It’s ironic that in America we have so many obese and overweight people and we also have a neurotic obsession with thinness.

In Europe, where women are much more feminine and attractive overall, there are lots of women who are “well-rounded” without being fat.

With regard to the pictures, I voted the first one “fat” and the second one “not fat” because of proportionality. A chubby girl with small breasts: not good. A borderline-chubby girl with large breasts: good.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:15 pm roissy

el topo:
A borderline-chubby girl with large breasts: good.

funny how many fatasses in the personals will tout the largeness of their breasts as selling points.
memo to the hungry hippos: if you’re a fat shit, it won’t matter how big your sloppy pendulous tits are. you’ll still look gross.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:16 pm Gannon

Well yeah, both women are somewhat too fat and old for my taste. I like women with BMI’s around 20-24, not around 30 and at least half a decade younger. Having said that, both of them are fuckeable after a few bottles of beer.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:23 pm Chuck

roissy:

“memo to the hungry hippos: if you’re a fat shit, it won’t matter how big your sloppy pendulous tits are. you’ll still look gross.”

fat shits with big tits may still look gross, but fat shits with small tits look gross and pitiful…fat shits with small tits are the lowest rung on any social totem pole

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:23 pm Keith

Latent gay Roissy:

“the individual differences between men regarding ideal female BMI pale in comparison to the universal standards.”

Doesn’t even make sense. Even if we agree on the ideal, the question is how far deviations affect us.

So there’s some ideal we’d both totally do. As we move away from that ideal, what breaks the deal for us? For me deviations from .7 become sexual dealbreakers a lot more quickly than higher BMI. Clearly, you’ll put up with a lot more deviation from 0.7 to keep your preferred BMI.

“too many pounds over ideal BMI of 17.5 – 23, and whether the woman has a 0.7 waist-hip ratio won’t matter. it’ll be rendered useless by the surrounding layers of blubber.”

Again, depends on what you’re more sensitive to. From any sexual position, you still have pleasing proportions across a wide range of BMIs, given 0.7 ratios.

“what’s the fattest woman you ever fucked?”

Guessing: 5’4″ to 5’6″, 160-180. You?

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:24 pm roissy

ps: before any of you fatty fuckers mentions it, dress sizes have changed over the years to accommodate the sensitive egos of the growing lardclass of american women.
a dress size of 6 is now fitted for a fatter woman than it would have been 40 years ago.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:27 pm Keith

“ps: before any of you fatty fuckers mentions it, dress sizes have changed over the years to accommodate the sensitive egos of the growing lardclass of american women.”

Roissy, and before you try to deny the Holocaust, let me tell you it really happened.

It’s easy to debate when you get to make up your opponents arguments, isn’t it?

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:29 pm Anonymous

not exactly. past a certain threshold of fat fuckery, the magical 0.7 waist-hip ratio loses its allure. toccara has gone past it.

a decent amount of the commenters say differently though. i guess it’s not the landslide slam dunk you were hoping for, so here comes a tantrum.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:30 pm Keith

“i guess it’s not the landslide slam dunk you were hoping for, so here comes a tantrum.”

Whoa, somebody’s got a nice model o’ Roissy.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:31 pm roissy

fatty fucker 10.0 waist-hip ratio lover keith:
Latent gay Roissy:

the fact that i give you a lot of shit is not evidence for your assertion.

Doesn’t even make sense.

it does to people who aren’t lamely trying to score points on their hated enemies.
for example, who has more trouble finding and keeping quality male lovers:

a. jessica alba or

b. kathy bates?

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:32 pm J

not exactly. past a certain threshold of fat fuckery, the magical 0.7 waist-hip ratio loses its allure. toccara has gone past it.

a decent amount of the commenters say differently though. i guess it’s not the landslide slam dunk you were hoping for, so here comes a tantrum.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:33 pm roissy

Roissy, and before you try to deny the Holocaust, let me tell you it really happened.

godwin crapped his pants.

It’s easy to debate when you get to make up your opponents arguments, isn’t it?

it’s easy to debate when my opponents resort to the same tired arguments over and over.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:34 pm roissy

i guess it’s not the landslide slam dunk you were hoping for

actually, the numbers are turning out EXACTLY as i had thought they would.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:34 pm Keith

“10.0 waist-hip ratio lover keith:”

Which validates the prediction: “a decent amount of the commenters say differently though. i guess it’s not the landslide slam dunk you were hoping for, so here comes a tantrum.”

“for example, who has more trouble finding and keeping quality male lovers:”

Actually, you’d want to test this by comparing a 20 BMI chick with a high hip-waist ratio to a high BMI chick near a .7 waist-hip ratio. So try again.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:34 pm joshrandall

Im attracted to neither one. The black chick looks a bit,er,masculine,doncha think? Who am I,Bill Maher???

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:36 pm Keith

“it’s easy to debate when my opponents resort to the same tired arguments over and over.”

But since I didn’t make that argument, you were debating your imaginary friend to make yourself feel better.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:38 pm Keith

So who would have an easier time keeping quality lovers?

A chick with a 24-30 wait hip, or a chick with a 30-40 waist hip, or a chick with a 35-50 waist hip?

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:43 pm roissy

Actually, you’d want to test this by comparing a 20 BMI chick with a high hip-waist ratio to a high BMI chick near a .7 waist-hip ratio.

in real life, very few fat chicks with high BMI have 0.7 WHR as the accumulation of fat past 20+ pounds over ideal weight tends to obscure the hourglass figure. but for those few truly fatass women who have kept their 0.7 WHRs (black women seem to do better at this than white women), the opinion among the vast majority of men not named “keith aka fatty fucker” or “DA aka fatty transvestite fucker” is that those fat but proportionate women would look hotter if they slimmed down to the ideal BMI range.

But since I didn’t make that argument, you were debating your imaginary friend to make yourself feel better.

dumbass, i was addressing the studio audience, not you specifically.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:45 pm If You Want To Be Miss Piggy All You Deserve is Kermit The Frog

I cannot stand fat bitches, period. There is always some fucking excuse or some rationalization amongst fat bitches as to why they are fat and similar rationalizations amongst the LOSER guys who chase fat women. Losers that will bang anything. You don’t need “game” if you will fuck anything. Watch carefully who replies to this saying the fat black chick isn’t fat, somehow, but is just “curvy”. Fuck you. Fuck you all.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:45 pm Keith

“dumbass, i was addressing the studio audience, not you specifically.”

So it was a roomful of imaginary friends.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:49 pm Keith

Really, the question is, from a sexual appeal perspective: Keira Knightly or Toccara?

There’s plenty of votes on both sides, here. From a sexual appeal perspective, Toccara gets my vote.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:51 pm Keith

“those fat but proportionate women would look hotter if they slimmed down to the ideal BMI range.”

True, but irrelevant to the discussion. The question is how much are we willing to trade off in deviations in BMI and deviations from .7. And different men have different loss functions. You’ll clearly settle for a .8 waist-hip ratio chick if her BMI is good. Cool.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:51 pm roissy

So it was a roomful of imaginary friends.

obsidian and some other commenters have brought up the dress size thing before.

why must you be so retarded?
rhetorical.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:52 pm Maria

Oh my God, Keith.
No. Seriously.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:54 pm PA

dress sizes have changed over the years to accommodate the sensitive egos of the growing lardclass of american women.

Hell yeah. Also, normal women buy clothes in Juniors section of the department store. Fat disgusting bags of cowliver? In — get this — Woman’s Section.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 3:56 pm roissy

Really, the question is, from a sexual appeal perspective: Keira Knightly or Toccara?

keira, by a very wide load. she’s not only got a better body, she’s way hotter facially as well.
i suspect black guys would give toccara the nod more often, because as i have stated here before black guys seem more forgiving of extra fat on a woman, and there is also a slight predilection to be more attracted to women of your own race.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:00 pm ironrailsironweights

Here’s a different poll:

Is this GNP

1. Delicious, or
2. Delicious?

Peter

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:07 pm PA

Is this GNP
1. Delicious, or
2. Delicious?

Delicious. Nicely shaved away from the bikini line and as far as I can see, from the labia. A nice & natural upside-down triangle GNP.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:08 pm Keith

“i suspect black guys would give toccara the nod more often, because as i have stated here before black guys seem more forgiving of extra fat on a woman”

Could be related to T-levels. Interesting to consider emphasis on BMI versus emphasis on waist-hip ratio and how it relates to reproductive strategy.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:10 pm roissy

pig porker:
The question is how much are we willing to trade off in deviations in BMI and deviations from .7.

the studies on this have already been done. barring a few minor outliers, men the world over prefer a 0.65-0.75 WHR and a BMI in the 17.5-23 range.
iow, this is a universal preference. the farther a woman deviates from either ideal BMI or WHR, the fewer men will find her attractive. whether BMI or WHR is more important to a woman’s physical attractiveness is academic, as both measurements move somewhat in lockstep — that is, the fatter a woman gets, the worse her WHR becomes.

And different men have different loss functions.

funny how those loss functions stay within such a narrow band of variability for 95+% of men.

You’ll clearly settle for a .8 waist-hip ratio chick if her BMI is good.

even better, i’ll clearly prefer a girl with 0.7 WHR if her BMI is good.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:11 pm PA

Could be related to T-levels.

In my many acquaintances with black guys (I’ve been in the Army) even skinny, effeminate, low-T black dudes prefer thicker women.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:11 pm Chuck

“Could be related to T-levels. Interesting to consider emphasis on BMI versus emphasis on waist-hip ratio and how it relates to reproductive strategy.”

Granted this is an abstract, and only deals with incidence of diabetes, but is still helpful in figuring out which measure is a better indicator of overall health. This study says waist-hip ratio.

http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/mxm008v1

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:15 pm roissy

pig pouncer:
Could be related to T-levels.

or it could be related to an african mating strategy of pump and dump where investment in each particular woman is low.
or it could be related to black dudes having lower standards.
or it could be related to them having no choice in the matter, as so many black women are overweight.
ripe for discussion, it is.

furry:
1. Delicious, or
2. Delicious?

neither. although the chick’s body is good, which is a welcome respite from the hags, warpigs, and hideous beasts you customarily link to.

ps: a shaved or trimmed bush is superior to a gnp. only men with few options would fetishize the hairy bush, as they are more often found on old hags who have given up trying to stay attractive to men.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:19 pm Chuck

I went a’ googling and found some shit.

Towards the end of this article it mentions, quite intuitively, that a higher waist-hip ratio indicates higher levels of abdominal fat which is associated with many health risks. This indicates that a reasonable ratio indicates to men when judging their mates as to their ability to carry a child to full term with minimal health risks. BMI is an outdated measure of degree of obesity. It skews results for those with greater muscle mass.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14483512/

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:19 pm Randall Parker

Regards BMI and breast/waist/hip ratios: The higher the BMI the more for a need for ideal breast/waist/hip ratios.

Just where people come down on this will vary. I’ll take a woman with higher than ideal BMI if she’s got bigger breasts over one who is flat chested but has an ideal waist-hip ratio. But there’s a limit on just how far over ideal BMI I’d accept before I’d choose the flat-chested woman instead.

There’s variation between guys on ideal ratios. Some guys place less or no importance on big breasts. But there is also facial shape, skin quality, eye color and other considerations. Keira Knightly gets many things perfect while being flat-chested.

What would be interesting is to create some software on a web site that generated all sorts of realistic looking variations on the same women with regard to obesity and ratios and then do a more detailed poll on preferences.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:20 pm Keith

“men the world over prefer a 0.65-0.75 WHR and a BMI in the 17.5-23 range.
iow, this is a universal preference. the farther a woman deviates from either ideal BMI or WHR, the fewer men will find her attractive.”

Yes, but the relevant discussion is on the the joint distribution and how the loss function in BMI and WHR deviations from the ideal varies across men. A weak preference in BMI and a strong preference in WHR means Toccara beats Keira Knightly. The other way around, and Keira wins.

“as both measurements move somewhat in lockstep…that is, the fatter a woman gets, the worse her WHR becomes.”

That’s an overall statistical tendency and even your “somewhat” suggests a pretty loose correlation. So you’re not covering those women who do fall into that Toccara category, even though that’s the topic at hand.

Toccara certainly looks closer than Keira to the 0.7 ideal, and you went with Keira. BMI beat W/H in your preferences.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:22 pm Michael Blowhard

Time for evolutionary biologists to do a serious study of the shaved-or-unshaved-muff question.

A historical note y’all may be aware of already, for all I know: Back in the ’70s it was near-impossible to get a girl to trim it back except insofar as she needed to to look respectable in a bathing suit.

Back in those dark ages, the taste for abundant bush wasn’t a failure to know better. Pubic hair was considered hot, a marker for sexuality itself. Girls were proud of it, as they were of their boobs. And a real man was expected to develop a taste for bush. Sex was dirty, messy, hairy, funky (“funky” originally meant “stinky”). Any guy who expressed a preference for a bald beaver would have been ridiculed as a wuss who hadn’t yet reached maturity or connected with what it is to be a man.

Times have changed …

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:24 pm dougjnn

They’re both fat but the black girl is clearly much more hourglass than this white one. Yeah it’s cause of the second girl’s humongous tits most of all, at least Ds and maybe/probably DD, but she also has big hips and no doubt a big rump, though we don’t see it here. Those are some prominent cheekbones too, rather unusual in an American black girl. Overall she’s hotter.

The first girl is the kind of white girl that peaks when not only real thin but also real young, either as a teen or at most college. I.e. is’s a cute kind of pretty, not a beauty. Angelina Jolie is real different. She may have gotten hotter through her twenties, though from a very high starting level. She still damn hot.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:25 pm dougjnn

Make that she WAS a cute kind of pretty. I’m thinking of her in her early Beaverly Hills 90210 days.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:25 pm roissy

greased pig chaser:
Toccara certainly looks closer than Keira to the 0.7 ideal, and you went with Keira.

no she doesn’t. toccara’s got a big fat belly. man, your vision has been skewed by years of burying your face in the suffocating labial folds of women who routinely sleep in pianos.

BMI beat W/H in your preferences.

keira beats fatso toccara on both measures.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:25 pm PA

only men with few options would fetishize the hairy bush, as they are more often found on old hags who have given up trying to stay attractive to men

Could be a generational thing too. I find completely shaved pussies wierd looking and in porn, where I have unlimited choices, I prefer some semblance of a bush.

Also, for some it’s about what you grew up with. All of the girls I saw naked back in high school (they were all teens, as was I) each had a cute little fluffy bush that never got past the bikini line and wasn’t too thick. They were all pretty, upper middle class girls.

In my early 20s (early 1990s) girls started trimming more but women in mainstream porn (Playboy, R-movies) all had bushes similar to the one in Peter’s link.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:30 pm Usually Lurking

Back in those dark ages, the taste for abundant bush wasn’t a failure to know better.

Michael, we are also talking about the worst period in human history for all things visual.

Wide lapels on baby blue tuxedos, high waisted pants for “girls”, atrocious looking cars (you can barely find a 1972-1984, or so, era car winning anything at a Concourse d’Elegance or the like), Brutalism, etc.

So, if bush league pussies were in vogue then, well, that might say something.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:34 pm David Alexander

The first girl is at the upper end of my taste in chubby white girls, but her nails & potentially large tits seal the deal for me. She’s fatter than Wellesley Queen, but she’s better looking than her, IMHO.

Mind you, one can argue that it’s pointless to compare since she’s a plus-sized (size 14) model.

Could be a generational thing too.

As a younger guy, I find unshaved pussies to be hideous and nasty and distracting from the female.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:35 pm roissy

chuck:
BMI is an outdated measure of degree of obesity. It skews results for those with greater muscle mass.

most women do not have the kind of muscle mass that would render the judgement of the BMI gods inoperable.

MB:
Any guy who expressed a preference for a bald beaver would have been ridiculed as a wuss who hadn’t yet reached maturity or connected with what it is to be a man.

i’ve heard of these dark days. shudder…
personally, i like a neatly trimmed bush. not too hairy, not too baldy. like baby bear’s pubes — juuuust right.
as a practical matter, too, the landing strip or bald eagle beats the gnp. no man who loves going down on beautiful women wants pube floss in his teeth. and in contradiction of peter’s endless (and i suspect phony) assertions, the smell of a gnp is not particularly pleasant, and can often be downright putrid. trimming the hedges solves a lot of that problem.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:38 pm JBuzza

keira beats fatso toccara on both measures.

no she ain’t, check it out:

her waist and hips are almost the same width, she’s skeletal. toccara is closer to the w/h ratio than keira. kera’s waist and hips are almost identical, almost zero hourglass. one third of the voters don’t think toccara’s that fat (she’s only gonna get fatter with age), and even among those who do many obviously would still bang her. she’s too fat for me to make my wife, but not so fat i wouldn’t get wood and bang the holy shit outta her.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:39 pm JBuzza

i’ve heard of these dark days. shudder…

just watch pre-90s porn. the shaved shit is really new.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:41 pm ResidentCynic

I’m with miamiyeahh. Fat? Yes, technically. But still pretty, especially the second one who carries it better (less gut than the first).

In fact, the second one is hotter than most “thin” women. She’d be the second hottest chick in your previous poll. Just like some guys can carry fat better than others, it’s absolutely true with chicks too.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:43 pm ironrailsironweights

Time for evolutionary biologists to do a serious study of the shaved-or-unshaved-muff question.

A historical note y’all may be aware of already, for all I know: Back in the ’70s it was near-impossible to get a girl to trim it back except insofar as she needed to to look respectable in a bathing suit.

Back in those dark ages, the taste for abundant bush wasn’t a failure to know better. Pubic hair was considered hot, a marker for sexuality itself. Girls were proud of it, as they were of their boobs.

Back then, adult women wanted to look like adult women. And men, in turn, wanted adult women, not being caught up in pedophilic fantasies.

Peter

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:43 pm Sean

I think this might be the first time you’ve ever posted a preference that didn’t just flat-out mock Peter’s, roissy.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:45 pm Michael Blowhard

UL — Re the ’70s… “Michael, we are also talking about the worst period in human history for all things visual.”

Granted. But 1) the ’70s were fun in a lot of ways, 2) sexy in a lot of ways, and 3) continue to have a lot of influence on popular culture. Many of today’s hot young filmmakers, for instance, are doing what they can to remake, or rip off, or live up to the ’70s-movie thing. The ’70s must have had something going for them where sex was concerned.

Hey, I wonder if Tarantino likes big bushes.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:47 pm dougjnn

Michael said–

“Back in those dark ages, the taste for abundant bush wasn’t a failure to know better. Pubic hair was considered hot, a marker for sexuality itself. Girls were proud of it, as they were of their boobs. And a real man was expected to develop a taste for bush.”

You’re right of course. You’re especially right in the “was expected” bit. I knew it was expected and I publicly faked liking it – it was good for the rep and getting more of it. There was a whole “naturalness” thing, and since there was also the argument that sex was natural it was good to go with that flow. Those that like it bald were charged with wanting little girls, rather than big grow up feminist girls. Since feminism and smart college girls liking lots of low commitment sex went hand in hand in those days, it was important to stay on the correct side of that one at the time. There were plenty of non feminist sluts around, but not so much in elite colleges.

ONE of the things I loved physically about my main girlfriend in my last year and a half of college though was that she was real light down there, as many natural blondes are. The best thing though, aside from her being two years younger and a near virgin when she moved into my RA flat in our former frat turned “theme house” (non violence house) and her being really in love with me is that we had a theoretically open relationship, though she only wanted me, she was so in love — but never asked too many questions about what I might sometimes get up, as I was still lovin on her. And also the big kahuna, leading “consensus building” talk out sessions on important house decisions like whether to allow co-ed roommates (Yes!), where to do our house shopping, and so on. BTW, my being in that house was pure hypocracy. It was just forming, I had a chance to be elected RA, I figured it would attract a lot of hippy loose girls without so much hard line feminism, some of whom at least would be hot (it did), and it had a great physical plant. I didn’t believe in non violence at all, but kept that largely to myself (though Holly, my gf knew. But she was mine and loyal.) Good times. Damn good times.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:48 pm ResidentCynic

@Randall Parker

“Keira Knightly gets many things perfect while being flat-chested.”

Just to let people know where I’m coming from. I’d do the second chick any day of the week before no-curves Keira Knightly.

The second chick is a throwback to the old Renaissance beauty ideal. When those artists painted images of goddesses, their women looked more like the second chick than Keira Knightly.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:49 pm ironrailsironweights

personally, i like a neatly trimmed bush. not too hairy, not too baldy. like baby bear’s pubes — juuuust right.

Well, heck. I always thought you were a fan of the Bald Eagle.

Peter

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:53 pm Chuck

“the smell of a gnp is not particularly pleasant, and can often be downright putrid.”

i would view the benefits of a woman’s pubes similar to the benefits of a person’s eyelashes or nose hairs…they help protect the vagina, nose, eyes from dirt, germs, and bacteria. i think the putridness of a GNP stems from the type of women that choose not to maintain. they’ll be more likely to be dirty skanks in the first place. it’s not the hair per se that causes putridness, it’s the type of woman who nowadays chooses not to trim their shit.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:53 pm Keith

“keira beats fatso toccara on both measures.”

Roissy, my first post using actual measurements must have gotten lost or something.

Anyway, according to what I found on the web, Toccara has a WHR of 0.65 and Keira has one of 0.84. So Roissy chose a chick with a WHR closer to the male ideal than the female ideal, over a chick with a WHR within the ideal range.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:56 pm jackson

As someone who thinks the label of “fat” is thrown around too casually, both those women are porkers.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:58 pm roissy

hag fucker:
Back then, adult women wanted to look like adult women. And men, in turn, wanted adult women, not being caught up in pedophilic fantasies.

give this line of argument a rest already. a sexy grown woman with hips and tits and ass does not morph into looking like a prepubescent teen girl if she shaves her muff.
christ, you can be obnoxious sometimes.

jbuzza:
no she ain’t, check it out:

ok, that’s the first pic of keira in a bikini i’ve seen (that i can remember). i usually see her in period dresses in the movies, where everyone looks a little heavier. she’s skinny there, but her face is so cute that she beats out toccara. and keira’s skinniness would still be preferable to most men over toccara’s rubenesque funrolls.

kera’s waist and hips are almost identical, almost zero hourglass.

now you’re exaggerating. at least in that pic you posted, it looks like keira’s got some hips. it isn’t straight up and down.

one third of the voters don’t think toccara’s that fat (she’s only gonna get fatter with age)

2/3s think she is fat.

she’s too fat for me to make my wife, but not so fat i wouldn’t get wood and bang the holy shit outta her.

it’s well known that what men will dump a fuck into encompasses a much looser set of standards that what men will commit to.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:59 pm ResidentCynic

OK, just spent some time reading these comments.

Everyone says both women are “fat”. So there’s the technical classification of “fat”.

But like me, most of the guys who’ve commented so far anyway, would rather bang the second “fat” chick (named Tocara judging by the comments), over an acclaimed “beauty” like Keira Knightly.

Interesting.

This is one of those situations where statistics don’t tell the whole story. The correct question to ask is “who are you more sexually attracted to?”. That’s the bottom line at the end of the day, right? You can technically classify one person as fat and another as thin, but still be more attracted to the fat one.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 4:59 pm JBuzza

the 70s were the era of preference for hairy bush? i thought the era was very beginning of humankind all the way through the early 1990s. that’s a lot more than a decade. guys who prefer bald pussy are the guys who were lateblooming betas who first exposed to pussy through porn for years before seeing their first live vag. any dude who had enough skills to see live pussy at a young age and didn’t need porn likes hair on the kitty.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:01 pm Johnny_Marks

Measure the pixel distances in this picture.

Clearly, Keira Knightley falls into the .65-.75 desirable range for waist-hip ratio

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:04 pm roissy

resident contrarian:
In fact, the second one is hotter than most “thin” women.

this post was a good rorschach test.
“you may be a fatty fucker if…”

She’d be the second hottest chick in your previous poll.

dude. 2nd hottest? toccara hotter than sophie marceau and alizee?
dude.
just,
dude.

Just like some guys can carry fat better than others, it’s absolutely true with chicks too.

only if you define “some” to mean “very VERY few”. you don’t want to go and give all those fat chicks hope that with the right mirrors and angles they can carry their fat better.
bottom line: almost all women over the ideal BMI will look better if they slimmed down.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:04 pm Gannon

“Back then, adult women wanted to look like adult women. And men, in turn, wanted adult women, not being caught up in pedophilic fantasies.

Peter”

By the way, I’m reading gone with the wind right now. Do you know how old Scarlett, the epitome of female beauty is at the beginning of the book? 16, the prime age for women.
And also that at 14 started to attend balls and were considered women? The wisedom of earlier centuries.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:07 pm Michael Blowhard

dougjnn — You’re bringing it all back, man!

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:12 pm chic noir

MB An interesting diff is that my brain says that the white girl is near-porky while the black girl is curvy — which means that I have somewhat different standards for white and black figures.

I think it’s because Tocarra(blk lady) has a waist and the other lady does not. Both have exceptionally beautiful angelic faces. The type of faces Agnostic &Thursday will prob like.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:13 pm ASDF

So what is the point of this post? I think most people seem to be in agreement that the black woman carries her weight much better than the white woman.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:16 pm Gannon

Yeah, white girl has much cuter face, black woman has a better body. If I had to choose, it would be the white girl, or none, actualy.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:19 pm jackson

I would rather have the slightly more porky white girl over the black girl. Black just doesn’t do it for me.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:20 pm roissy

resident cynic:
The second chick is a throwback to the old Renaissance beauty ideal. When those artists painted images of goddesses, their women looked more like the second chick than Keira Knightly.

they weren’t painting masturbation material.

asdf:
So what is the point of this post?

to smoke out the sophists. (hi keith hi chiclet)

ps: i’m not surprised by the voting. the white chick is fatter than toccara.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:23 pm ResidentCynic

@roissy

“this post was a good rorschach test.
“you may be a fatty fucker if…””

All I can say is I’d do either of the “thin” chicks in your poll.

“dude. 2nd hottest? toccara hotter than sophie marceau and alizee?”

Sophie Marceau? Mmmmmmm…..

Alizee? The 14 year looking girl? Hells yes, by a country mile. Not a knock against alizee. She’s pretty. Doesn’t bring it out of me though.

only if you define “some” to mean “very VERY few”. you don’t want to go and give all those fat chicks hope that with the right mirrors and angles they can carry their fat better.
bottom line: almost all women over the ideal BMI will look better if they slimmed down.

Very very true. Most fat women look more like Rosie O’Donnell or Aretha Franklin, NOT Toccara. If going fat made you look like Tocarra, I’d institute a KFC force feeding program. Most women just end up looking like Roseanne Barr. So please fat women, don’t take the existence of a Tocarra as license to get to crazy with the weight.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:28 pm Keith

“they weren’t painting masturbation material.”

Yes, they were.

http://www.reason.com/news/printer/30658.html

“Maybe it is. But listen to the account of this painting and its contemporary reception offered by Lisa Jardine in her 1996 history of the Renaissance, Worldly Goods: “Titian’s canvases of statuesque naked women in recumbent poses were regarded as learnedly symbolic by nineteenth century art historians….Only recently did contemporary correspondence come to light which showed that these works of art were painted to meet a vigorous demand for bedroom paintings depicting erotic nudes in salacious poses. When Guidobaldo, Duke of Urbino, was negotiating to buy the painting now known as The Venus of Urbino from Titian in 1538, he referred to it simply as a painting of `a naked woman’….In 1542, the churchman Cardinal Farnese saw the painting at Guidobaldo’s summer residence and rushed off to commission a similarly erotic nude of his own from Titian in Venice. Reporting back on the progress of the painting some time later, the Papal Nuncio in Venice expressed the view that the Cardinal’s nude…made The Venus of Urbino look like a frigid nun. In 1600, in response to a request from an admirer of The Venus of Urbino to acquire a copy, the then Duke agreed, on condition that the identity of the owner of the original be kept a secret–he did not wish it to be widely known that he was the owner of that kind of painting.”

That kind of painting? What about the poetry, the symbolism, and the Dionysiac triumph? According to Jardine, a painter’s reputation in Titian’s time rested “not on some intrinsic criteria of intellectual worth,” but rather “on his ability to arouse commercial interest” in his work.

IT MAY NOT be immediately apparent how radical a judgment this is. After all, that Renaissance culture was deeply interested in the passions is well known. The many paintings of nude women, despite being labelled “Venus” or “Eve,” were perceived erotically by their purchasers. Though they are now revered in museums, their original owners often concealed the paintings behind closed curtains, or kept them rolled up and hidden. Many such paintings were probably destroyed when subsequently discovered. But modern students of such work usually examine this phenomenon in light of such specialized interests as the origins of “the pornographic discourse.” “

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:29 pm ResidentCynic

@roissy

they weren’t painting masturbation material.

So you’re saying you never once rubbed one out to “Birth of Venus”? Not even ONCE?!!!! 🙂

BTW, if the Renaissance masters acknowledge Tocarra’s body type as the ideal beauty, does that make them fat fuckers?

Or does that just mean our minds have been warped to think a bullemic shapeless beanpole like Kiera Knight has anything but a pretty face (horrible picture of her in the bikini linked above. Yikes!).

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:39 pm JBuzza

they weren’t painting masturbation material.

what? dude, they were painting what was considered the utlimate sexual ideal of their era. so if they were going to masturbate to something, that would have been it. you’re just trying to win an argument at any cost at this point to use that argument

she’s skinny there, but her face is so cute that she beats out toccara. and keira’s skinniness would still be preferable to most men over toccara’s rubenesque funrolls

that wasn’t your original point. you said she was an example of ideal whr, closer than toccara is to the ideal. but like keith points out:

Anyway, according to what I found on the web, Toccara has a WHR of 0.65 and Keira has one of 0.84. So Roissy chose a chick with a WHR closer to the male ideal than the female ideal, over a chick with a WHR within the ideal range.

exactly. anybody who gets what a .70 whr actually looks like and isn’t just a robot conflating .7 whr with low bmi would see beanpole knightley is way farther from it than toccara. in some nonairbrushed pics knightley looks to be approaching .9 whr even.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:40 pm shesaidno

Ugh–even I wouldn’t be seen with the first gal, and I’m horrible with women.

And the black one is prettier than the first in addition to being more handsomly portly.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:40 pm PA

bullemic shapeless beanpole like Kiera Knight has anything but a pretty face (horrible picture of her in the bikini linked above. Yikes!).

I don’t mind Keira Knightly’s thinness at all and small tits are better than sagging jugs. What does suck about KK is the man-muscles you can see up close in that orange bikini shot. She needs to go easy on the gym and lose those sinewy arms and the man-six pack.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:48 pm dougjnn

BTW, I didn’t particularly THINK I loved Sandy’s near virginity at the time. (She’d had sex one time previously with a long time bf senior year of HS, it was lousy, and she broke up with him.) And I sure used to tease her about it. But I sure did love her big time love/idolization of me. I loved her too but she became lost in love with me. Looking back I’m sure her effective virginity before me contributed to that. And unlike these days, she hadn’t had oral sex before me either. Just petting and some fingering to get her off, and that only in her senior year in HS.

What also contributed was that I was not only her first good sex, and then great sex, but I kept pushing and pushing her sexually. She had lots of inhibitions initially, but already was a little ashamed of them before she met me. She knew she was or had been to much of a goody goody. A classic daddy’s girl. She was also Catholic or her mother was, but because her daddy wasn’t and wasn’t very religious, neither was she — except she had a lot of those hang ups. I teased her about them and shamed her about her shame and broke them all, step by step, and she just loved it and me.

Of course this whole process meant that she got lots and lots of attention from me, at least when I started up a new phase of her “education” (I was actually learning a lot of this stuff along side her, but don’t tell her that), generally at the beginning of a quarter, before I had to start craming and churing out papers and stuff.

She became the most eager sex student you can imagine after awhile, eventually willing to do quite litterally anything. Well I never did anal with her but that’s because I didn’t want to. I’m not sure I’d even heard of it other than a gay guy thing. I’m damn sure she would have done it though after we really got going with me.

To illustrate, somewhere in the middle more or less of that journey I took her to sf in my sports car (I’d taken a year off from college to work on freighters and bought the Austin Healy 3000 with my own money. But ok dad was paying for college soup to nuts.) I “made” her strip totally nude except for her sexy high thigh laced sandels. Made her get out of the car in North Beach (the SF club/bookstore/strip club/tourist street) (on a street just off the main drag) and run from the middle of the block to the end of it, which I gunned to right quick to wait for her. She cried before doing it, begging me not to make her do it, promising to be good and make it up to me in so many other ways, starting with her offering up a threesome, but knowing full well if I did, she had no choice. She was absolutely exhilerated after she did it, and blew me right there and then. Well after a few minutes of laughing and calming down. Sex in public places followed, and then getting caught at it.

Then of course I had to take her up on that threesome she’d offered in a moment of panic. With us spending a lot of fun time evaluating possible targets. This was drawn out. Had a lot of fun with us both flirty with others, cause we were on a joint mission. She had to seduce the bi girl first, and kiss her etc. — but no sex yet. Then I had to seduce the same girl (hot Italian bi-slut with a for real rep), and kiss her but no sex yet. Well I cheated a little bit and got a blow job. Both supposedly done behind each other’s backs, far as our target knew. Then she had to go to the girl and come clean that we’d jointly plotted her seduction and bring her to our room. Which she did. Actually this girl moved in with us for about a week, which REALLY got our already high high reps in the house and elsewhere flying. But after a week she moved out, cause Sandy was starting to feel jealous and she didn’t want to hurt her and knew Sandy couldn’t say no to me at that point. Well I didn’t want to hurt her either so it was good all around, and had passed it’s highest point/served it’s purpose anyway. Of course our hot italian bi slut tried to then take Sandy with her, but of course failed. (You can be I let this be known.)

Actually I think I had to keep coming up with stuff like this (which unlike now really wasn’t so common back then, although it was much talked about) and then more and more to keep her level of devotion up. I was just learning about D/s and was motivated to big time. I pretended to have all kinds of experience I really didn’t, and then I’d lead her into the next thing, which I was really just learning about myself. She knew I was trying some of this out myself but really almost all of it was new to me.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:49 pm chic noir

ps: i’m not surprised by the voting. the white chick is fatter than toccara
Not by much if she is. The thing about the first woman is her lack of waist definition. For those men who are on the line about her, that’s what will turn many of them off.

the smell of a gnp is not particularly pleasant, and can often be downright putrid
Bar skanks tend to be like that because they sometimes screw a different man every other day. Don’t forget that stds are sometimes asymptomatic for women so bar chics may have something and not get treated in a timely manner. There are also some women who don’t visit the gynecologist regularly, like two or more years without having the kitty checked*.
Yet you lick that just because she’s a 10.
SMH

RC She’d be the second hottest chick in your previous poll. Just like some guys can carry fat better than others, it’s absolutely true with chicks too. I agree some women look better with an extra 10-15 lbs. Same thing with guys. Some men can be a bit overweight and not have a gut. Some men can be underweight and still develop a gut. I think at the end of the day, for me, it’s having a big gut that really throws off one’s shape
*shudders*

Keira Knightly gets many things perfect while being flat-chested
I like that Keira is flat-chested because she can wear many things that larger chested women can’t get away with. However, she is one of those women who by being on TV has fooled the masses of American men into thinking she is hot. You can add Rihanna & Gwenth Paltro(tp)to that list as well . Keira’s face is very angular for a woman. She can cut a diamond with her mandible

@Whiskey- You would turn both of those women down?

* I have a few relatives who are RN. You would be surprised at some of the things they see happening amongst you women. One complains about the number of young women, many who are thin, who have high
cholesterol & BP.

to smoke out the sophists. (hi keith hi chiclet)
Yea there are a few of us who like Tocarra, add Mu to the list. I think it would be intrestign if you added a pic of the red head from Mad Men.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:50 pm tokyojesusfist

ironrailsironweights

Back then, adult women wanted to look like adult women. And men, in turn, wanted adult women, not being caught up in pedophilic fantasies.

Pedophilia doesn’t mean what you think it means.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:53 pm chic noir

PA I don’t mind Keira Knightly’s thinness at all and small tits are better than sagging jugs. What does suck about KK is the man-muscles you can see up close in that orange bikini shot. She needs to go easy on the gym and lose those sinewy arms and the man-six pack.

In Bend it like Beckham, Keira wasn’t so bad. Something happened along the way.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:56 pm dougjnn

high calf laced sandels. And I forgot that i’d given a name before. Damn. Oh well. Same girl.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 5:58 pm ironrailsironweights

It’s somewhat difficult to compare the pictures because of the different poses – head-on vs. turned to the side. Also note that the first woman is wearing a rather baggy shirt while Toccara is wearing a form-fitting dress.

Peter

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:00 pm chic noir

If I was a guy, I think I would prefer either of these two before I take home a horse faced size2. You can always lose weight but you can’t do much about your face. Sure, a little nose job here, lip injections there but the best plastic surgeon can’t turn a 1 into a natural beauty 10.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:08 pm z

How many of you have ever fucked a girl the size of one of those plus-sized models?

Early in my career, when I was young and stupid, I hopped on a couple (2:30 AM, last call, nothing in hand, “somebody’s gotta fuck those fat girls too”, Right????).

They SMELL guys. Once is a aberration, Twice is a trend.

I foreswore fatties thereafter.

Its a shame, because many hefty gals have nice faces and would be very cute (like the first one especially), if they were willing to buy a treadmill and drop 30 lbs. But in a way, they are doing you a favor. That first girl with the pretty face might indeed lose some weight in order to “get” a desirable guy. She will hide all her old pictures of herself in a closet while dating him for about a year-to-year-and-a-half. Then when he puts a ring on her finger for those magnificent blowjobs and letting him fuck her in the ass, the kink will stop and she will balloon up like a chump-mortgage-balloon-payment over a one-to-two year period to her previous heights of Cookies-n-Cream-Ice-Creamery.

Look at their mothers and their ankles…………………….thats usually all you need to know about their future.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:09 pm Sparks123

I’d be curious as to Roissy’s opinion on Christine Hendricks of “Mad Men.” By his standards, he’d probably consider her fat, but there are many white guys who are crazy about her. For the record, she is larger than my personal ideal, but I’d still put her in the top 10% of American women.

As for the Tocarra vs. Keira Knightly debate, if we’re talking about a one-night stand, Tocarra for a one night stand and Keira if we’re talking an LTR. I’d be afraid Tocarra would really let herself go in later years.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:11 pm dougjnn

Gannon is entirely right. Guys are sexually attracted to girls as soon as they start menstruating and are half way through developing secondary sexual features like tits and hips and ass. Often they’re not most attracted to girls this young but instead prefer girls somewhere in their twenties, but attracted, definitely. Not having much in common if the age gap is too great is another issue, but we’re talking about sexual attraction.

The thing is most American men, particularly the college set, are some combination of brainwashed and terrorized into denying this reality or in some cases to mostly think they see no attraction, in a repressed knowledge sort of way. It’s pure and simple feminism which brought about this brainwashing and terrorizing. On this one the religious jumped on board, whereas previously many religious types had no problem with twenty something men having sex with 16 or even 14 year olds AS LONG AS THEY MARRIED THEM FIRST.

The raising of the age of consent from 14 to 16 to no lower than 16 and in many places 18 (absurdly enough) was virtually entirely a feminist thing of recent vintage. For feminists it’s mostly a power thing. Feminists want women to have the maximum amount of power possible visa vis their husbands, or lovers, and too large an age gap tends to hurt that agenda. Of course to reach the widest possible consensus on this they made the pitch primarily in terms of teenage pregnancy, implying that boys a lot older will insist on going all the way (while boys their own age might not, supposedly).

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:11 pm Firepower

I have the ultimate answer.

If my meatstick is amply titfucked, they’re not fat.

If I can rollfuck them – fat.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:13 pm JerrDogg

Fat&Fat,

I’d do the top one if there wasn’t much else going on though – much better looking than my own hand.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:13 pm Anonymous

http://people.tribe.net/btd/photos/939937df-f3f3-4684-ac47-cf9e979b5ff7

A more…illustrative…pic of Tocarra

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:15 pm dougjnn

I think Keira Knightly is way hot in an elegant sort of way.

I also think she’d be even hotter if she’d get herself a high end tit job. Solid C’s.

I didn’t say double Ds or even Ds which would ridiculous on her. I said real looking C’s. Many actresses have them. For Keira it would be difficult though cause everyone would know. And she became a big star at about 17.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:22 pm chic noir

@dougjnn, Megan Fox has a new set of C’s and they look fake. So did Pamela Anderson’s C-cups in her baywatch days.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:25 pm chic noir

anonymous http://people.tribe.net/btd/photos/939937df-f3f3-4684-ac47-cf9e979b5ff7

A more…illustrative…pic of Tocarra

*looks at pic anon provided *
I know damn well Whiskey would hit and marry her if given the chance. Shit the way he complains about not having a woman.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:26 pm Anonymous

More pictures of Toccara. A very good-looking girl.

I know for white culture fatness in a girl is unacceptable, and the social kiss of death, but African-American culture has traditionally not had a problem accepting that one can be simultaneously both fat, and sexy at the same time.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:27 pm JerrDogg

Course my declaration of the first one as fat but still doable should come with a disclaimer..

i had to only fuck my increasingly fat wife for 10 years… so I have amazing powers to see the silver lining in a fat-ass cloud.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:29 pm Usually Lurking

Christine Hendricks of “Mad Men.”

I have never seen a picture of her in a bikini, swimsuit or anything that would show her midsection. That is a bad sign. And you can just tell that she will be fighting her weight from now on. IOW, fuck her, just don’t put a ring on her finger.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:44 pm dougjnn

Michael —

“Granted. But 1) the ’70s were fun in a lot of ways, 2) sexy in a lot of ways … The ’70s must have had something going for them where sex was concerned.”

The 70’s may have been the peak so far in volume of casual sex “for the masses”. Or for guy masses anyway.

That’s something I actually only recently realized. Reading this blog is one of the things that made me most realize it. I have always thought that the 80s and 90s were relative casual sex dry spells, due I think to aids and the over estimation of it’s threat to the hetero community mostly but also due to feminism going through an anti casual sex period. Feminists used aids fears as an excuse to try to make casual sex a male exploitation thing — until they began to realize, at least as the aids scare lessened, that they were alienating younger women in droves with this aging middle aged feminist bitch point of view.

But I thought the oughts had brought back a casual sex boom. Well it has. Just as much or more for women. But now for a narrower spectrum of men. Though those within that spectrum are making out like bandits. Yeah the alpha spectrum, as Roissy defines it.

It’s always been true and was true in the late 60’s and 70s that what Roissy calls alpha guys were getting not only hotter women on average, but also more casual sex or anyway had it more available to them if they went for it between gfs or behind their back or whatever. But back then better betas could also get lots of causal sex – if they had the right politics. Or at least that was important to get casually, non relationship, laid in college. You pretty much had to be a lefty. Else you had to pretend to be starting up a relationship and promise love and then move on. But that was work and took longer. The way to go was to be a lefty.

Doesn’t seem to me politics helps much these days, though lots of guys seem to still delude themselves into thinking it does or will, someday. (And feminists do not disabuse them of this delusion, “just not me loser”). Feminism has won and isn’t recruiting guys so much anymore, instead it’s training and browbeating them without offering many goodies unless they’re hot or gamesters. It wasn’t exactly that some feminist committee rewarded better betas with sex back then. It was more fellow revolutionaries got to participate in freer love, which was part of the revolution. The establishment is now feminist girls know perfectly well that they decide who’s getting any.

Don’t get me wrong. You couldn’t be a complete beta follower and get laid that much in the seventies either, but lots of higher betas did get a share.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:48 pm Maria

“More pictures of Toccara. A very good-looking girl.”
She’s good looking, no doubt, but that picture is overphotoshoped, she’s in an unnatural position (this ‘arms up’ is an old trick)…
…versus a candid of Keira wearing a not very good bikini for her body type.
not fair.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:52 pm Maria

and of course, excessive make-up.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:54 pm ResidentCynic

@Sparks123

Good call on the madmen star Christine Hendricks. She’s also in the “hot fat” category and I’d MUCH rather do her than Keira.

But yes, these women walk a very fine line. They have to make sure they don’t let their voluptuousness get out of control.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:55 pm dougjnn

On Tocara Jones vs Keira Knightly:

I far, far prefer Keira. But It’s my impression that a majority of black guys and probably a large majority would prefer Tocara (though they’d probably nearly all do a non famous Keira casually). Of course they’d do the famous Keira. Are you kidding? What a killer rep wise.

I also think only black guys would have a majority having this preference. The great majority of the world’s population would go my way I think.

BTW although I think Keira looks hot in that wet hair pic, she does have wet hair which makes her face look much harder than it normally does.

As I said though, give Keira a classily done big C tit job and she’d be even hotter.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 6:59 pm Anonymous

There was no comparison of Knightly v. Toccara in that post. Different strokes for different folks and all that. Unlike some, I don’t feel the need to browbeat someone into liking what I like, or making them ashamed of their choices of what they consider good-looking or fuckable, which seems to be the whole point of this particular blog entry by roissy.

I think Toccarra looks good, and is very sexually alluring. I realize that others may not see it that way. But if a woman shaped like that waled up to me, I’d be all over that.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:18 pm chic noir

I also think only black guys would have a majority having this preference. The great majority of the world’s population would go my way I think.

No non white hispanic men prefer a little thickness as well.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:26 pm dougjnn

ResidentCynic

“Good call on the madmen star Christine Hendricks. She’s also in the “hot fat” category and I’d MUCH rather do her than Keira.”

I don’t think Christine’s fat, though Tocara is in Roissy’s and that other pic linked in the comments. If she is then so too was Marilyn Monroe. Back then (very beinning of the sixties, which was still in many ways “still the fifties”) neither of the two current white girl body looks (really Asians too so make that non black girl), model thin in the middle and limbs, or athlete muscle toned (but not at all bulging), was in style. Instead female “softness” was. Which didn’t mean fat, but yeah a little fatter than the ideal today. Christine and Marilyn are good examples.

BTW that fighter jet nose cone chest of hers in Mad Men is also an amusing touch. A type of very structured supporter bra that some “well endowed” women of time favored. This was before my time except on TV etc. but definitely noticeable there. It was somewhat down scale, by way of looking fast, but but was seen as very sexy. It was, well sort of what men of the time probably dreamed their secretary (but not wife) would wear if she could pull it off.

By today’s standards I still wouldn’t say Christine was fat. She just couldn’t be called thin either.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:29 pm JBuzza

and keira’s skinniness would still be preferable to most men over toccara’s rubenesque funrolls.

you always carry on about how evo bio makes men slaves to the .70 waist hip ratio, or the .65-.75 waist hip ratio range. now you say keira knightley, who is well outside that range and comparable to a teenage boy at .84 whr, is preferred by most men to toccara, a .65 whr woman who is within the range you claimed most guys can’t resist. so are you are now claiming that this .70 whr range you tout so often really isn’t that big a deal after all? inconsistent much?

2/3s think she is fat.

yeah, but of that 2/3 who think shes fat, many of the guys here who find her fat obviously still find her attractive and doable nonetheless going by these comments. and that seems to be the part that seems to bug you for some strange reason.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:31 pm Randall Parker

Christine Hendricks is way sexier than Keira. Keira has a great face and great skin. But it is like she stopped developing too soon at some stage of puberty.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:34 pm Firepower

btw, “toccarra” is Zimbabwean for “skin filled with butter”

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:39 pm Gunslingergregi

dougjnn the 70’s had vietnam where guys got to go oversees and have sex. The people left behind got to talk about the war and also have sex listening to cool music and got to do drugs.

the 2000’s have the iraq war where no sex and also not to many cool songs. No cool drugs. The army chicks look like the above woman mostly the top one. Just fing nasty for real. Like nasty to the point where i don’t get pussy for months and they still don’t look good with the dessert goggles on.

go figure. Reason I wish I would be involved in that previous war instead of this one. Also reason I hope for world war iii because that one will probably be fun. Unless it is against the remote controlled tanks then prob not so much fun.

top ones problem is looks like a empty roll of paper towels no shape at all plus trash clothes.

2nd one is more alluring as a dress can make all difference in world.

Dick would not get hard for either one to fuck.

either one would be allowed to give me a bj.

You know your an Alpha when the guys at work wonder how come it is that you can do whatever you want to do in life even though you have a woman when they are chained to there woman in a constant downward spiral to a life of hell. They know this but still cannot make descisions for their family to stop the cycle. Being able to not only see the future but be able to act on it and be able to say no to woman is what makes a man alpha and surprizingly actually working towards making his family secure.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:44 pm tokyojesusfist

dougjnn

Gannon is entirely right. Guys are sexually attracted to girls as soon as they start menstruating and are half way through developing secondary sexual features like tits and hips and ass.

…

The thing is most American men, particularly the college set, are some combination of brainwashed and terrorized into denying this reality or in some cases to mostly think they see no attraction, in a repressed knowledge sort of way. It’s pure and simple feminism which brought about this brainwashing and terrorizing.

I run into this a lot, since I like Japanese women. What usually happens when I contribute to those “post hot chicks” forum threads is that people accuse me of being a pedophile faggot because I’m apparently posting pictures of 12-year old boys. Some people become extremely agitated and act like I just announced that I want to hang all niggers. It does seem to be a conditioned response. Perhaps feminists want men to prefer older women because that way they have better chances when they’re in their thirties and forties. Indoctrination is a powerful tool (look at the millions of white liberal atheists defending Islam as if they were members of Al-Qaeda).

Japanese women not only look physically younger than their gaijin counterparts, but Japanese culture also favors youthfulness and innocence over maturity and sluttiness, whereas in the West it’s the other way around. A Japanese idol in her teens or twenties might wear little or no visible makeup and the kind of clothing a “nice girl” would wear. A Western celebrity of the same age might prefer to look like a washed up 40-year old whore. See Lindsay Lohan for example (on second thought, don’t). Then there’s also the stereotype that all Asian women, particularly Japanese, are submissive housewife robots.

So of course feminist spinsters and their mangina puppets scream bloody murder if someone chooses the former over the latter, more so when you’re talking about long-term relationships.

But getting back to the original subject, a good example of the hysteria about supposed “pedophilia” is the way people think that anyone who finds Saaya Irie attractive is a pedophile. She is 15 years old, but has a body that puts most adult women to shame. If I didn’t know who she is, I would think that she is in her late teens or early twenties. The whole reason why she’s considered attractive is because she looks physically and sexually mature. Pedophilia is about being attracted to prepuberscent features, which she lacks.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:50 pm dougjnn

Anonymous

Ok in that last Tocara pic you posted I’d say she’s not fat there. Not thin either, she’s just a big girl, but she’s not at all fat in that last one. Maybe sorta like Christine of Mad Money if we saw Christine’s middle.

But your point that lots of black Americans like and even prefer women who look like Tocara does in Roissy’s shot of her, and certainly prefer that look to a small booty and small tits no matter how pretty the face – is one I agree with. Body wise, AAs want booty and then they want tits and then they’ll hope they don’t have to pay with TOO much blubber. But some is fine. Speaking broadly about averages of course. From what I have observed lo these many years.

That’s fine with me.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:52 pm shesaidno

Christine Hendricks’ greatest role was playing “Saffron” on Firefly:

http://www.entil2001.com/series/firefly/season1dvd/ff1-6.html

She looks good in “Mad Men” but she was utterly gorgeous in the two episodes of “Firefly” she appeared in (she was five years younger).

Browncoats represent.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 7:59 pm PA

the 2000’s have the iraq war where no sex and also not to many cool songs. No cool drugs. The army chicks look like the above woman mostly the top one. Just fing nasty for real.

Hey Gunslinger, I think you said earlier that you are in Iraq. Contractor, right? I was curious about the realities of GIs mingling with local women. Not happening, is it?

In Korea or Germany, military guys go out and meet local women. I’m guessing that in Iraq, for one, no one leaves the base except armed and on a mission. Also, women are not allowed to mix with Americans (are ther elocal women who work on-base?). The Islam thing is a barrier too. Am I understanding it correctly?

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 8:02 pm Zdeno

#1 is gross. Wouldn’t do it for money, even though she would be quite hot minus if she dropped somewhere in the ballpark of 40lbs. She would fit in somewhere around the 2-3 range of the rankings we did earlier.

#2 is sexy despite 20-30 pounds she would be better off without. She would slide in somewhere around the 5-6 mark. No way would I pass up “girl on the bridge” but tubby would certainly get the nod over the redhead.

Whoever even brought up Kiera Knightly is a fool. Introducing her to this discussion is like letting Usain Bolt race in the special Olympics.

Cheers

Zdeno

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 8:21 pm Welmer

Took a fat girl home once — couldn’t do it.

Both the girls are fat, but the first one could be attractive minus fifty pounds.

As for the 70s bush thing:

Michael Blowhard

UL — Re the ’70s… “Michael, we are also talking about the worst period in human history for all things visual.”

Granted. But 1) the ’70s were fun in a lot of ways, 2) sexy in a lot of ways, and 3) continue to have a lot of influence on popular culture. Many of today’s hot young filmmakers, for instance, are doing what they can to remake, or rip off, or live up to the ’70s-movie thing. The ’70s must have had something going for them where sex was concerned.

Hey, I wonder if Tarantino likes big bushes.

My dad would agree about the 70s being fun, and according to what he says the sex flowed freely, but I don’t think even then that massive bush was all that popular. Have you seen what happens to a lot of white women between 20 and 30 as far as the hairiness goes? It can be overwhelming. We’re talking bulge in the pants hair volume.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 8:37 pm David Alexander

Perhaps feminists want men to prefer older women because that way they have better chances when they’re in their thirties and forties.

As I’ve stated, some of my female friends have admitted to being feminists, and they have no problem dating older men, and have openly admitted desires for alpha males.

AAs want booty and then they want tits and then they’ll hope they don’t have to pay with TOO much blubber

Yes, I want a girl with tits and an ass worth grabbing.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 8:41 pm Gannon

@Tokyojesusfist:
You have great taste. That’s the kind of girl I like, although I prefer them white. Converting teen girls at their sexual peak into children has been one of feminism first political goals in the late 19th century in the USA, and now they are exporting their hate through US media. Men are by nature designed to bond and fall strongly in love with girls in their midd to late teens, not with women around 30. That’s something great about Japanese Anime by the way: it doesn’t deny the attractiveness of a High School girl. I like Rumiko Takahashi’s work, a woman who knows appeals to men.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 8:50 pm dougjnn

tokyojesusfist–

“But getting back to the original subject, a good example of the hysteria about supposed “pedophilia” is the way people think that anyone who finds Saaya Irie attractive is a pedophile. She is 15 years old, but has a body that puts most adult women to shame.”

I’m most definitely with you on this and on her bro.

That girl is definitely hot. A definite sexual creature. If I was asked to guess her age I’d put her at 19. I most definitely want to do her. Unfortunately she wouldn’t want to do me, unless I paid her (girl who looks like her, not the star she apparently is), ’cause I’m definitely way too old for her.

The rate at which people mature both physically and emotionally varies greatly. Contrary to popular opinion, they are also somewhat correlated. The complicating factor re: emotional maturity is experience. Experience is a huge part of emotional maturity. By experience I mean to some degree just time dependent amount, but mostly I mean diversity and intensity of experience.

One thing that is true though is this. A fifteen yo girl who has sex/love with a 20 something is going to be very vulnerable to him and affected by him if it lasts for many months or even years. Maybe even if it only lasts a few weeks if he is either very bad or very good. He will have a HUGE impact on her life. She needs to have parents with veto power over choosing him. Not assignment power but veto power. It could be a GREAT impact on her life, as many female adventurers have noted over the years. It could also lead her into prostitution and so on. Parental absolute veto.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 8:51 pm Anonymous

Speaking in evolutionary terms, there is a high correlation between teenage girls, and a high rate of maternal death and fistulas. While modern medicine has eliminated the problem in the West, it is still a hug problem in the developing world.

http://www.thestar.com/article/205988

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 8:56 pm Gannon

“Speaking in evolutionary terms, there is a high correlation between teenage girls, and a high rate of maternal death and fistulas”
That statement is only true if we are talking about mothers below the age of 15.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 9:23 pm ironrailsironweights

So what about this chick: fat, or not fat?

Peter

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 9:29 pm whiskey

In the 1970’s outside the lunatic disco movement and other idiocies: swapping and gays and the usual dumb-assery, men could afford to buy a house in their thirties. Most TV was mass media, and families routinely stayed at home to watch Saturday Night TV which was first-run and first rate (at times).

The 1970’s were largely the last gasp of “Old America” of a mass culture that was shared, shared relatively conservative values, and catered to middle America.

Re: girls, age of consent, birth rates, etc. The best time for a woman’s health to give birth (FAR reduced rate of breast cancer) is in her twenties, preferably her early twenties when she has the most energy and resilience. Alba, and a few other pregnant stars like Ashlee Simpson, and Nicole Ritchie were wise to have them early, when they are best able to have them.

Factor back: Kids require a husband, since the two-parent family is demonstrably superior. This means kids at age 23-25 means husband by age 21-22. Which means not Girls Gone Wild hedonism but mature appreciation ages 18-22 of what makes a good potential husband and what makes a bad one.

Also, teen girls 14-18 are dumber than dirt, as anyone who has been around them can attest. They need to explore without risk of undue attachment (through sex) various types of guys. I.E. dating but no sex.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 9:35 pm David Alexander

Which means not Girls Gone Wild hedonism but mature appreciation ages 18-22 of what makes a good potential husband and what makes a bad one.

Your world order is rather boring, and defeats the entire purpose of being white. Your world order is somehow, unappealing to me…

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 9:52 pm Gannon

“Also, teen girls 14-18 are dumber than dirt”
Disagree. Teen girls are not stupid, and are very selective. By the way, females reach their full adult IQ’s around 14, and males probably around 16.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 9:55 pm Gunslingergregi

In the beginning I think there may have been interaction. I hear some legends of it. Like clubs in bahgdad. But the last 4 years probably not.

Not really any interaction with local woman. Yea mission then back to puritan laws is what it looks like.

It is really wierd I mean the chicks in army are ugly on a different scale. Really strangely shaped bodies and faces. There are some that are ok but majority are scary. Massive calves from wearing tennis shoes there whole life.

You might as well come on over pa your wife won’t have to worry and as long as you can say no to her pleas of living up to the lifestyle you might get something out of it. The married guys I know with kids though still dream of being able to save 500 dollars a month lol I am like man you got to put her on an allowance or you will never be able to leave. Then the alphas who are able to get all the woman they want are scared of settling with one because they can’t ever trust her because they remember how easy all the others were to f and why would she be any different. Me I say I am going to save 25k do it then lose it in market. I say I will save 50k do it then say I will get to 100 then do it. Then I lose it in market. I say now just buy houses collect rent. All this time the woman in my life has invested in things that provide income and is now self sufficient in life. Kind of makes me think. Woman can be a great thing just has to be the right one like one in a billion lol or you can create that woman through love and just telling her the truth about what you want without lieing. Show her that you do what you say. Draw a line in the sand in blood that will not be crossed for any reason. Problem is Alpha Beta everyone has problems because really the world is just that fd up lol I’ll let you know in 5 years if it is possable to live off of a woman you helped make independant and still be happy. She tells me I can come home and just chill out. So I get to try an experiment with a new goal which is to just lie down on some tities lol and work really hard at relaxing when I am done with this. Already talked with her about it and she says she wants to lie down on my stomach so I am like ok compromise we will switch up every so often.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 9:59 pm spandrell

guys, just get out of the US, please.
Brazilian girls rock.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 10:24 pm whiskey

Gannon — in my experience Teen Girls are the champions of stupid decision making. The smarter ones tend to make the dumber choices:

“OMG! That guy is so cool! He’s a washed up motocross racer with a three day hangover, a drug habit, and eleven years older than me! I should have unprotected sex with him immediately, and then get a bunch of ugly-ass tattoos.”

Teen girls care intensely what their friends/social circle think of them, beyond all reason. Any casual perusal of Facebook or Myspace will show their innate exhibitionism and need for constant attention. A stubbed toe is the cue for intense drama. Besides these traits being intensely annoying, they betray fundamental emotional immaturity.

What is critical is learning process. Girls especially must learn to assess guys beyond how much they impress their friends, how socially dominant they are, and how cool they were sweeping them off their feet. Cause those things give the guys the ability to do that with other girls, while they’re stuck at home with the kids.

In Jane Austen’s day, girls 14-17 grew up quickly, learning to discern these qualities (basically what most of Austen’s books are about) as a matter of life or death. Thankfully we don’t live in those times, but learning (particularly for girls who risk more, generally, with abandonment) to tell a good guy from a bad one is not something that can be just dictated by parent(s). Rather learned from experience and learned in a way that does not screw them up for every other guy who dates them years later. [Ahem.]

There’s some research that suggests a girls first love/sexual encounter colors her perception and valuation of all potential partners afterwards. If those are the social stakes, better it be a positive, informed encounter with a decent guy she chose not out of dumb hormonal response but other things besides “just” that.

All that baggage that comes with women in their late twenties and early thirties, and beyond? Well, it started somewhere.

DA — my vision of society may be boring. As Winston Churchill noted, the Pathan’s life is full of interest.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 10:46 pm AS

The first girl’s hands seem much uglier than the second girl’s. I don’t know if that has something to do with the different ways they’ve positioned their hands. Anyway, I can’t bear to look at them.

Who is the first girl? Is she a celebrity?

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 10:49 pm DestroyToCreate

Both are heinous bush pigs. Emphasis on pigs.

KK is nowhere close to being too thin. To see what too thin really looks like, check out the pictures of French model Isabelle Caro. The most famous of which are the billboards, but there are some candids as well. Now that is too thin.

If it’s bigger than a size 6, throw it back.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 11:11 pm Yuri

Both those two at the top of the page may be fatasses, but Keira Knightley has the body of Leonardo DiCraprio circa Titanic. Jessica Alba may be a shitty actress soon to disappear into obscurity, but she is a good example of a somewhat voluptuous, hot chick.

whiskey

Gannon — in my experience Teen Girls are the champions of stupid decision making. The smarter ones tend to make the dumber choices:

How can the “smarter” girls make the dumber choices? Was that a typo?

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 11:13 pm Sean

@Peter

Dammit, man! I trusted you!

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 11:21 pm OMW

Both of them can stand to shed some excess fat, but the second woman has decidedly better proportions.

If I knew her socially, I would not describe her as, “you know, the big girl.”

So I voted her “not fat.”

The first one would be absolutely adorable less fifty pounds.

LikeLike
on February 22, 2009 at 11:42 pm asshole

@dougjnn
said
“The raising of the age of consent from 14 to 16 to no lower than 16 and in many places 18 (absurdly enough) was virtually entirely a feminist thing of recent vintage. For feminists it’s mostly a power thing. Feminists want women to have the maximum amount of power possible visa vis their husbands, or lovers, and too large an age gap tends to hurt that agenda.”

Hey maybe they did that so that inexperienced women wouldn’t be made to feel like crap when they met men like you. Following is your own admission about what you did to a college age woman, I shudder to think what you would have done to a younger girl.

“She cried before doing it, begging me not to make her do it, promising to be good and make it up to me in so many other ways, starting with her offering up a threesome, but knowing full well if I did, she had no choice.”

You like women to cry before you sexually humiliate them? fucktard.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 12:16 am Beta guy

To tokyojesusfist:

A Playboy-style photo set of Japanese girls that are not stick figures:
http://www.giffer.com/adult/col/num277/c13807/pics001.htm

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 12:32 am Anton

Both of these girls are fat. WAY fat. No can do….

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 12:42 am Comment Ninja

A related topic:

How about a ‘short vs. not short’ post and the impact of height on game?

One the one hand: woman overwhelmingly prefer men who are either taller than them or who are at least average height.

On the other: the success of fellas like Neil Strauss, Tom Cruise, and even Verne Troyer suggest that one can compensate for even extreme shortness with status and game. Are these just outliers?

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 12:49 am old married woman

Oh, doug, that’s ridiculous. A large age gap is actually a really good way for a woman to have power of her own over a man. (go ahead, ask me how I know. LOL)

Of course, there are trade-offs, and not every woman is up for marrying a guy 15 years her senior… but those middle-aged fellers are like putty in the hands of a young woman.

A mate closer to one’s own age gives less latitude, not more; he thinks that if things don’t work out, he still has plenty of good years on the market, and he is right.

An older one begins to suspect he is running out of chances to finally get it right.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 1:05 am Big fat Slut

[…] Fat Or Not Fat? « Roissy in DC […]

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 1:25 am dougjnn

asshole–

You are such an asshole. I was very in love with her. You conveniently (for your thesis) left out the next sentence, but I’ll quote all the relevant ones including and after your noted one:

“She cried before doing it, begging me not to make her do it, promising to be good and make it up to me in so many other ways, starting with her offering up a threesome, but knowing full well if I did, she had no choice. She was absolutely exhilerated after she did it, and blew me right there and then. Well after a few minutes of laughing and calming down.”

You seem to not understand that I was all about making her ecstatic. Yes in part through her sexual submission, but also through her feeling my love. Because I loved her.

Are you unaware that the vast majority of hetero women derive their greatest sexual pleasure by thoroughly surrendering to an at the moment at least sexually dominant man? And that those that think they want to dominant their partner often either find their sexual lives unfulfilling, or seek male dominance outside their marriage?

If so you need deprogramming.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 1:29 am dougjnn

old married woman —

There’s some truth to what you say. Really it depends upon the man’s ummmph. Some combination of all the alpha qualities.

I said elsewhere that 15 is pushing it. 10 is often pretty good though., for both. Say girl 25, guy 35, for an ideal, all current American things considered.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 1:59 am RF Interference

It’s too bad baseball didn’t get started until much, much later. The Renaissance would have provided the most consistent batsmen in the history of the game, what with everyone fucking slump busters left and right.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 2:05 am Kthulah

Of course they’re both fat, but the simple thing to do if you don’t like fat women is avoid them. No need to thought police others.

Some of you are as bad as the feminists ridiculing guys for preferring slim or young women who aren’t in the least unhealthy looking. Ridiculing anyone for their physical preferences, within the realm of consensual sex, is silly because that’s part of nature’s sorting process.

Tokyo says, “A Japanese idol in her teens or twenties might wear little or no visible makeup and the kind of clothing a “nice girl” would wear. A Western celebrity of the same age might prefer to look like a washed up 40-year old whore. See Lindsay Lohan for example (on second thought, don’t). Then there’s also the stereotype that all Asian women, particularly Japanese, are submissive housewife robots.

So of course feminist spinsters and their mangina puppets scream bloody murder if someone chooses the former over the latter, more so when you’re talking about long-term relationships.”

We might disagree on other things, but this was on the money, in my opinion. The glorification of the washed up old whore look is a tragedy.

…but the strong survive and the weak perish. Even when I was much fatter and couldn’t do anything about my size, I took care to maintain what I could of a fresh but dignified look. Beauty, even a small amount of it, is a gift that shouldn’t be thrown away for a trend.

Most Asian women stay young looking, and pleasant to look at even when they’re old, in large part because of consistent selection for enduring features of real as in nature-friendly beauty. I hope that never changes.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 2:06 am Sara I

169 comments on this? WTF

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 2:16 am Kthulah

Doug says, “Are you unaware that the vast majority of hetero women derive their greatest sexual pleasure by thoroughly surrendering to an at the moment at least sexually dominant man?”

There’s surrender, and then there’s surrender…If a guy asserts his dominance in that area, he has to be aware and ready for the responsibility that comes with it.

Once you take someone there, whether they’re male or female, you own a part of them that you can, if you’re not careful, destroy.

So I wouldn’t even go there with someone I didn’t intend to keep for life.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 2:27 am dougjnn

Above I said:

“You pretty much had to be a lefty [to easily get casual sex]. Else you had to pretend to be starting up a relationship and promise love and then move on. But that was work and took longer. The way to go was to be a lefty.”

I almost added something to the effect that it would also be pretty shitty or mean to regularly deceive relationship sex girls like that. That’s what I thought at the time and what I think now. I think I left that out to appear more Roissy alpha. That’s bs. I’ve been alpha most of the time, but sometimes less so. Actually rep and self confidence are self reinforcing loops, or not, and that matters huge. Anyway, I’m not happy with myself about that omission. So this.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 2:53 am Sara I

The first one would be gorgeous if she were thin, but if she lost all that weight she’d probably start getting pumped and dumped which would fuck with her head so she may be better off fat. I knew a chubby woman who was gorgeous like that and she got herself a fine man who loved her softness. He liked to joke that she was a lot to love, plus she had a great personality.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 3:02 am Welmer

Kthulah

Most Asian women stay young looking, and pleasant to look at even when they’re old, in large part because of consistent selection for enduring features of real as in nature-friendly beauty. I hope that never changes.

Asian women have two ages: young, and old. There is no middle, and the transition is very brief.

It seems, however, that if they take care many of them can maintain youthful looks until the very end of their fertile years, and those are all that count for women anyway, so I suppose they do well in that regard.

Another thing is that Asian hair is very easy to dye, and stands up to chemical treatment much better than the finer-textured Euro hair. They also have better skin for sun, and smaller breasts, which don’t sag as much with age. That’s really their “secret.”

Either way, the trained eye can see their age as well as the age of a woman of another race. Chinese used to tell me that they couldn’t tell how old white people looked, which I thought was kind of funny for the obvious reason that white people say the same thing about them.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 3:06 am Welmer

Sara I

The first one would be gorgeous if she were thin, but if she lost all that weight she’d probably start getting pumped and dumped which would fuck with her head so she may be better off fat. I knew a chubby woman who was gorgeous like that and she got herself a fine man who loved her softness. He liked to joke that she was a lot to love, plus she had a great personality.

What a pervert…

Hehe. Just kidding.

It takes all kinds, I suppose, but personally speaking I can’t abide fatness.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 3:15 am ASatr

Dude, is this a question? Im writing from hungary and they are _definetly_ fat.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 3:20 am Cannon's Canon

@ Whiskey

“There’s some research that suggests a girls first love/sexual encounter colors her perception and valuation of all potential partners afterwards.”

Would you link to where I could find this? I will share it with my grade school crush in an ‘amused mastery’ frame. Appreciated.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 7:54 am Taff

Peter – I’m not being funny, but she was so fat you couldn’t see her GNP.

You’re slipping dude…

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 7:55 am Smoothvirus

Really, the question is, from a sexual appeal perspective: Keira Knightly or Toccara?

There’s plenty of votes on both sides, here. From a sexual appeal perspective, Toccara gets my vote.

Holy shit, dude.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 8:52 am Bateman

they both have no self control when it comes to food. I would expect them both to give seriosuly good head with that in mmind.

The top one has ‘puppy’ fat , so in a few years she could be quite hot once she has loat that. Maybe worth grabbing and nurturing her into a fit looking bird… who still thinks she is fat.
That what is best about slim women who have lost loads of weight, they still think like fat birds ….

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 9:34 am ironrailsironweights

@Peter
Dammit, man! I trusted you!

Trusting me is not always a safe idea. At least not when it comes to the pictures I link from Voyeurweb.

Peter

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 9:38 am Pupu

Sara: “He liked to joke that she was a lot to love, plus she had a great personality.”

Pupu thinks Sara has hit the nail on the head. When a gal is in that weight range, she needs some extra personality, whether it be sweetness or any other spice, to carry all that extra weight. Think about Mae West.

Honestly, before reading the comments, Pupu thought the pictures were of the same woman but in two different outfits, like those side-by-side pictures in magazines, under a title like “how to dress to look slimmer.”

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 9:56 am Pupu

Pupu has a girlfriend who is big but with an even bigger personality. It is always big fun to be around her. Now happily married, she had never had trouble finding dates before settling down. Whether a gal is big or whether she is mate-material are two different questions.

With all that said, Pupu’s answer to the poll: yes, they are both fat.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 10:21 am Benedict Smith

the 2nd chick only got a fat vote b/c we as western men are so obsessed with the stick-thin, anorexic in tight jeans with tan skin look. spare me. women that thin have less sexual appetite, give birth to less intelligent children, and are more neurotic than their slightly heavier counterparts.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 10:42 am roissy

Whether a gal is big or whether she is mate-material are two different questions.

i’m afraid that’s not true, pupu. your anecdote to the contrary notwithstanding, a girl’s sexual market value is severely hurt by the gain of excess poundage. the fatter she gets, the lower her worth as mate material, and this is a fact based not only in men’s preferences, but in biology as well, where a woman’s fertility suffers as she balloons up. personality and daily hummers can only compensate so much, and past a certain fatass threshold (like say 40+ pounds over ideal weight) even the most sparkling personality in the world won’t save her from the judgmental eyes, pursed lips, and flaccid crotches of repulsed men everywhere.

note that the fact that fat chicks can get laid is not the same as getting those men to commit, as many horndog men will dump a detached fuck into any fat old hole at closing time. also note that quality of man matters. most fat chicks, if and when they do settle, settle for men much lower on the quality scale than what they could have gotten had they been thinner.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 11:12 am gig

they are obviously fat.

And teen girls are as mature as girls in their mid twenties. The teen girl chosing the drug-addicted guy in Whiskey´s example isn´t doing that because she is a teen, but because she is a skank and will choose this kind of guy until she ages out of their standards. Teen girls don´t marry because of three reasons:
1) there is no interaction between they and older men. Both groups don´t have overlap in their social lifes. In the US, with those under-21 laws teen girls are effectively banned from socializing with older men (older meaning 8-12 older). the few cases when they date each other are usually examples of old fashioned mating, they know each other through family or something like that

2)pop culture and sex and the city mindset, meaning many girls think they have time to party until the late twenties

3) welfare state. High taxation means that guys in the 25-30 that don´t have rich parents are not exactly capable of affording a family and giving the teen girl the same standard of living she is used with her parents. Guys will have financial autonomy by the time they are over 30, meaning almost 15 years of age difference. That is to much

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 11:30 am Pupu

Roissy: “your anecdote to the contrary notwithstanding”

Pupu has to allow some personal anecdotes to come out, otherwise people would think she is Wall-E!

“most fat chicks, if and when they do settle, settle for men much lower on the quality scale than what they could have gotten had they been thinner.”

That is sadly true unless their weight gain happens after marriage.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 12:30 pm roissy

les pupu:
That is sadly true unless their weight gain happens after marriage.

i feel a song coming on…

(sung to the tune of ‘keep your hands to yourself’ by The Calling)

B-b-baby, baby, baby
Why you you gotta bloat up this way?
You know I was your loverboy
Till you ate the wedding cake
Thats when she told me a story
About divorce court hell
She said, “No hottie, no skinny
You’re stuck as I swell.”
Oh, my honey, my baby
Don’t turn my love away from you
She said, “Don’t hand me no lines
And pass the beer and cheesy poofs.”
See I wanted her like old
Before she grew like a pig
That’s when she started talking about my porn
Started talking about kids
I said, “Honey, I married you when you were a skinny wife.”
She said, “No hottie, no skinny
Now that I can eat day and night.”
Oh, my honey, my baby
Don’t turn my love away from you
She said, “Don’t hand me no lines
Or I’ll get my lawyer to screw you.”

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 12:33 pm Tim Price

Don’t knock it till you try it. BOTH are probably GREAT in the sack. HHHHHOT!

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 12:42 pm OMW

Yes, I think gig is right about the under-21 set being much more willing to settle down and marry young if they are exposed to marriageable men.

The boys they are boxed in with at school, though, are mostly at least five years away from being marriage material.

So even marriage-minded girls are forced to piss away some of their best years on guys they can’t take seriously. Which is a shame.

I encourage all the discouraged single girls I know to get out of Moron State U and join the military ASAP– no shortage of really eligible bachelors there.

Financially stable, obviously not commitment-phobic, and generally built on a bedrock of fairly traditional values.

But, for the femmier girls, the military is WAY out of their comfort zone.

Oh well. But you do hate to see a 26-year-old woman wasting her best years on her space-case grad-student boyfriend, who is obviously only going to commit, begrudgingly, when she finally issues an ultimatum.

And, deep down, that sort of begrudging commitment makes a woman hate a man forever.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 12:45 pm OMW

But I don’t think girls are actually demanding the same standard of living that they had in their parental home.

Most sane people recognize that you have to start off small.

Women want love, but will settle for money.

For awhile, anyway.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 1:14 pm JerrDogg

One thing I’ve noticed in my recent man-whoring is that there’s a dramatic absence of fat women in the married-but-looking crowd. Maybe it’s that I’m not approaching them or that fat women don’t think they’d have much of a chance with me but almost all cheating women are actually fairly good looking. I wonder if they stay thin because they want guys like me to fuck them on the side.

About half of the women I’m gaming are house wives. I should feel bad about their beta husbands who are slaving away all day at work for them while they sit at home; then a guy like me in between meetings stops by the house during the day once or twice a week and fucks their wife. It’s funny because while I’m talking to them they tell me how much they love their husbands and it would hurt his feelings so much if he found out. I’d say what I’m doing is wrong except that we both are having so much fun and there’s so much pent up sexual desire in these women that they clearly aren’t getting much out of their husbands.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 1:46 pm SeaFighter FSF-1

That song is slightly better than your Ayn Rand thing poem/thing.

Can you make it so any comment containing the letters GNP is deleted? This is beyond old. Any comment with the letters Kthulah should also be deleted.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 1:50 pm goldenseed

why is a poll needed for this?

both are objectively fat.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 3:03 pm Kthulah

Roissy says, “note that the fact that fat chicks can get laid is not the same as getting those men to commit, as many horndog men will dump a detached fuck into any fat old hole at closing time.”

‘I didn’t inhale…’

‘I did not have sexual relations with that woman.’

Roissy, just as I had to come to terms with the fact that a great many seemingly good men will marry and duck and dodge around straight up whores, you should come to terms with the fact that, as you keep harping on, beauty is quite objective. A bit of fat won’t cover it up.

That they consider fat women to be disposable is a social issue, not an aesthetic one.

I have noticed though, in my own experiences, that guys with this sort of mentality are more likely to be married to whores. They come to us because they think we’ll soothe their battered egos.

At least in my case, they were wrong.

“also note that quality of man matters. most fat chicks, if and when they do settle, settle for men much lower on the quality scale than what they could have gotten had they been thinner.”

What is your definition of a “quality man”? a “quality husband”?

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 4:48 pm chic noir

Jerrdog that’s really f-up that you are screwing married women. You better hope that someone doesn’t do the same thing to you one day.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 5:43 pm Lupo

Kieth wrote: “So who would have an easier time keeping quality lovers?

A chick with a 24-30 wait hip, or a chick with a 30-40 waist hip, or a chick with a 35-50 waist hip?”

24-30 is an Auschwitz victim with no ass.
30-40 is a sausage shaped cow: I have a 30″ waist and 38″ hips, and I’m a 200lb man.
35-50 is a giant beast who would asphyxiate me if she sat on my face.

If you’ve actually boned women with such measurements, you have far more iron in your dong than I do. If I have done so, the merciful effects of alcohol poisoning have wiped the memory from my mind forever. None of these women are capable of acquiring, let alone keeping a quality man.

FWIIW, I favor waist to hip ratios closer to 0.65 or 0.6 than 0.7, sort of like in a Frank Frazetta painting.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 5:53 pm Lupo

“Time for evolutionary biologists to do a serious study of the shaved-or-unshaved-muff question.”

In Korea, women actually put minoxidil on their beavers to grow more hair downstairs. IMO, it’s not evo biology; it’s just social psychology. America has institutionalized adolescence as a permanent state of mind. Koreans like being adults. That said, I still prefer wax jobs and Hitler moustaches.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 6:28 pm Lupo

“One thing I’ve noticed in my recent man-whoring is that there’s a dramatic absence of fat women in the married-but-looking crowd.”

Disagree. Though it might be a local effect to where you/I live.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 6:34 pm Willard Libby

Both are fat, neither is obese.

Top one has a pretty face for a fatty. The rest of her is a mess, including the hair.

Alcohol would work wonders.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 6:54 pm JerrDogg

@chic

Probably 1 in 3 of the people reading this have done the same thing or will at some point. I’m not really proud of what I’ve done and what I’m doing and I respect your opinion, it does matter to me. But in a sense, Jack Frost has been banging my wife and leaving her a freezer queen for me for over a decade. I’d rather a real person cheat with my wife than to have had her totally shut down. It would probably be healthier for her and me.

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 7:27 pm Obsidian

Hmm. Very interesting comments, and I thank Roissy for introducing the topic.

A few thoughts.

First, he’s right-current dress sizes are indeed different from what they were 50 years ago; Marilyn Monroe’s size 8 back then is today’s 12, if I have my stats right. At any rate, the point is that the dress size scale has been tilting upwards. This is a fact and something I’ve seen firsthand as I worked in the retail apparell business for some years.

Here at Roissy’s we’ve kicked this can around quite a bit but im glad we have the chance to have yet another go at it for a number of reasons. I think a very good place to start is with the reader’s comments, which in most cases, are direct responses to a deeper question (not) being asked:

“Hit, or not hit?”

On that score, clearly, Toccara wins out over Keira Knightly, and keep in mind, this is a for all intents, White Male dominated forum. For my part, I find such informal poll results very, very interesting.

Not to be outdone, Roissy suggests that sure, big gals like Toccara can get any guy to do the deed; its landing the guy with the Right Stuff that’s the trick. No argument there-but here’s the thing…

By all of his writings, Roissy is in absolutely no rush whatsoever to commit to Toccara OR Keira Knightly; we’ve all seen his musings on the state of Marriage today. And sure, while it is *possible* to have a “loving, commited relationship” with someone, in the end, if you really ’bout it-’bout it, it don’t get no more commited that signing your name on them marriage papers.

So, the commitment from/with a quality guy angle kinda loses its luster here.

Moreover-from an evo-psych/bio POV, the issue ain’t making Mr. Right stick around, at least for us guys anyway. The issue is, making sure you leave a genetic legacy-kids. By all accounts, Roissy has no intentions of siring any anytime soon, and I’m completely cool with that.
What does all this have to do with Toccara vs Ms. Knightly?

Simple.

Toccara has the signs of a Woman who most is likely to bear healthy kids-many of them. From our earliest beginnings right up through the Ruebens era (nuff respect to Keith for the historical explainer), cultures around the world have shown as a constant in feminine beauty, that has only changed over the past century or so, if that (Chic Noir’s the resident “Glam” expert here-perhaps she can give a bit of perspective?). Prior to the 20the century, Women who looked closer to Toccara were consider the Sugar Honey Iced Tea: Mae West, or if my memory serves, Elizaeth Cady Stanton (or one of the pioneers of the suffrage movement); descriptions in the world’s most reknown sexual/erotic literature, like My Secret Life, or The Perfumed Garden, or 1001 Arabian Nights, describe Women who look A LOT closer to Toccara than to Knightly. Don’t take my word, go and see for yourself.

Or, check out the film Quest For Fire. When it came time for dude from another tribe to mate w/his captor’s Women, Rae Dawn Chong’s narrow ass was pushed to the back, in favor of the heftier broads. I’m just sayin. And historians the world over, confirm what the film depicted.

Talk about keepin’ real.

The vast majority of Men in *this* forum, chose Toccara for a very simple reason: because she could best give them the chance for a genetic legacy. Period. And in Evo-Psych terms, that’s the name of the Game, pardon the pun.

Speaking of which, by now, my own views and tastes in this regard are well known and to some extent explained. No dis respect to Miss Knightly, for I’m sure she’s a wonderful lady. But in physical terms she does absolutely nothing for me. No indication that she could withstand the rigors of live vaginal birth. To say nothing of withstanding 12 rounds w/the Obsidian.

Toccara on the other hand, is fine a strapping Lass, made for steady lovin’ and pumpin, all through the day and part of the night. In fact, when I was first alerted to her and took at moment to look at her pics, she reminds me a bit of Brown Sugah, who’s the same skin tone and body dimensions, just taller, just under 6′. And yesterday, after a full weekend workout, she limped back home.

She said, when she got home, that it was thee best sex she had ever had in her life. Another happy customer.:)

Now, respect to Roissy and all my White Brothers-hey, no need to put each other down for what we like. Afterall, Game is designed to give options as to what you can pick and choose, and I would never begrudge a Man his Jones. God bless him.

But if we’re gonna dispel some “pretty lies”, then I think this thread has pretty much done its job. One more thing:

For me, Game affords me the chance to achieve Immortality. By selecting those Females who can best help me build a Genetic Legacy. It is for this reason that every Woman I consider, or am already dealing with, I view as, potentially, the mothers of my children, and treat them as such. Now I know my Brothers in Game have differing views, and I am completely cool with that. But for me, to paraphrase the great philosopher KRS-ONE, “I will be here, forever”.

The Future belongs to those who show up for it. Get used to the idea of seeing quite a bit of the remnants of the Obsidian floating around, 50 and 60 years from now. Some lighter, others darker. All Me.

Me, Me, Me…

Great discussion! By all means, continue…

The Obsidian

LikeLike
on February 23, 2009 at 11:59 pm Kthulah

Lupo says, “None of these women are capable of acquiring, let alone keeping a quality man.”

I keep seeing this. So I’ll ask you and anyone else willing to answer.

What is your definition of a quality man?

For me, a quality man has to be an independent thinker…at least a critical thinker if I widened my definition to be more merciful to people who can’t help being born without the requisite will to be independent.

IMO, it’s not about what you like, but about what you will, and what you do about it.

…but that’s just me.

It’s sad though not totally surprising, that too many men gauge quality on the basis of their own preferences, rather than what constitutes an actual superior being.

I contend that a person who is superior to me would not particularly care what I or anyone else thought of his quality, and would have no need to try to enforce his standards on others in other than a social engineering context….meaning if it profited him in some way for others to believe something, then he would convince them of it to fill his own pockets.

I’d also like to point out a discrepancy in the pro-curves argument.

If the women the thin-thought-police lauded as beautiful actually looked like teenage boys, that might not be so bad. Teenage boys and teenage girls aren’t so far apart in figure except the basic superficial sexual characteristics.

The women these guys often cite as beautiful (as in more beautiful than average to chubby women), without makeup, often look like they’ve been beaten with an ugly stick from head to toe. They are not as pretty as thin to average women who don’t get modelling/acting jobs, but also don’t sniff alot of cocaine, drink too much, or starve regularly.

So rather than adolescent boys, these women look like washed up old alcoholics or heroin addicts.

Preferences, I don’t knock anyone’s…but let’s be real here. Some preferences are legacy making while others are basically a genetic black hole.

I, personally, am not happy about the old tramp look being in. I have a daughter who is being taught to take care of herself, and not run around drinking or starving herself to death, and she’s going to have fewer choices because guys today aren’t even hung up on actually young nubile looking women anymore. They’re chasing women who are washed up before the age of 23, and trying to enforce that “standard” on everyone.

Thank goodness the few choices she has will be independent thinkers who don’t believe the hype. So maybe fewer choices aren’t a bad thing.

…but if, as you guys like to say, a man’s preferences are reflective of his quality, then what does it say when a man prefers women who look like they’re 45 at 20?

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 12:00 am J

I didn’t have time to read through all the comments … anyway ..

both chicks are fat , the second one is just more presentable because she has a more defined waist and large breasts.

Women will complain that men “discriminate”against them based on their weight.

Well , as a guy that in the past has been above his optimum weigh …. let me tell you , women are just as discriminating against guys that are carrying weight as guys can be .. if not more so.

So , ladies , take any arguments you may have about how men feel about your weight and stick em where the sun don’t shine.

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 1:32 am Lawful Neutral

Both fat, but it’s, like, a good fat.

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 2:21 am dougjnn

OMW

“And, deep down, that sort of begrudging commitment makes a woman hate a man forever.”

At a deep level, screw you to her.

User. Hate a man that you used our current hyper femininst female tilted culture to rope? Yeah, I understand that. If he had balls he shouldn’t have been roped like that or probably by you. So of course you hate his lack of balls.

But more generally of course men are NOW very reluctant to marry women, certainly IF the men have any regular pussy options available otherwise. In other words alphas are. Or especially high earning alphas are.

Why? No alphas feel really impelled to marry, or few do. High earning alphas have a lot to lose from marrying under current day feminist American divorce law, in ways that lower earning ones, relative to their spouse, do not.

If the wife earns more than the husband he will do ok in the marital property division. Might even walk away with her paying him some. Nothing to fear there. But he won’t do nearly as well, net net, as a woman would in the same relative economic position. Varies by state to the degree but only by that.

But he’ll STILL be paying her child support, according to the law, even if she e.g. earns 3x what he does, cause she’s gonna get primary custody of the kids, regardless of Cali’s and some other states often fraudulent “joint custody” awards. Her income will be pretended to matter in child support decision, but in fact won’t matter one little bit. By carefully obscure language. Yes this is real. It will mathematically cancel out, numerator yes but also denominator. But it’s in long drawn out words, not math symbols. How cleaver those feminists. Real.

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 2:22 am JerrDogg

Lupo says, “None of these women are capable of acquiring, let alone keeping a quality man.”

Acquiring? Yes… very difficult.
Keeping? Well my wife got as heavy as the photos between engagement and wedding day. I like to consider myself a quality man. Her weight only went up from there. Don’t get me wrong – I really didn’t like it – I’m not attracted to heavy women. But I accepted it.

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 2:31 am JerrDogg

“cause she’s gonna get primary custody of the kids, regardless of Cali’s and some other states often fraudulent “joint custody” awards”

I’m not sure what you mean by this. There’s legal custody and then there’s physical custody. Joint legal custody has little to do with child support since most of the expenses of raising a child have to do with the physical presence of the child. The child support award is usually pro-rata to the portion of joint physical custody time. If you’re pursuing joint physical custody and you can show that you’re a truly fit and attentive father then you can expect 50% joint physical custody as it is usually better for the kids to do it that way.

Ways to not get physical custody of the kids are to do things like:
1. Be a drunk
2. Beat your wife
3. Moving out of the house before a hearing
4. Moving out of the school district area
5. Not show up to school events for your kids
etc….

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 3:36 am a black guy who reads this blog

“Really, the question is, from a sexual appeal perspective: Keira Knightly or Toccara?”

“keira, by a very wide load. she’s not only got a better body, she’s way hotter facially as well.”

“i suspect black guys would give toccara the nod more often, because as i have stated here before black guys seem more forgiving of extra fat on a woman, and there is also a slight predilection to be more attracted to women of your own race.”

not this black guy.

beauty is where you find it, and it is not always from someone with the same ethnic background.

toccara isn’t bad looking, wouldnt kick her out of the bedm but i could name 100 women, black or white, who look better than she.

i dont mind a little extra weight, just as long as it doesnt cross the line into Fatville. being black is no excuse.

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 3:49 am a black guy who reads this blog

This is Roissy trying to explain why black guys like women with a little meat on their bones:

“it could be related to them having no choice in the matter, as so many black women are overweight.”

what do you mean, “no choice in the matter?” this is 2009, its not like interracial dating is unheard of. we can date white (and thin) without being arrested

besides, if youve ever gone to an outdoor event during the summertime, youll know that fat/chunky white women DO EXIST. and theyre not all middle-aged, either

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 3:52 am Kthulah

ASatr has brought up something that I find very interesting. Hungarian women tend to be slim but very nicely shaped…at least the older (30+) generation. I’ve noticed that some younger women I know here of Hungarian descent are blowing up, but not quite in the same way as other Israelis. When they get big, they still usually have an hourglass figure.

When I see similar phenomena to my own people (African and Catawba), I tend to go back and look at the food. Food and activity are the usual sudden obesity culprits, but food moreso since a person’s activity level is going to be largely controlled by their culture. Daily activity is dependent on the role a person plays in their family and the kinds of things they enjoy doing, which doesn’t change as quickly as food styles.

Hungarian food has plenty of carbs, but also plenty of protein in meat, and vegetables, especially paprika and other peppers. Peppers have more vitamin C per gram than citrus, and if one eats alot of this in their youth, they’ll reach puberty at a lower weight because they don’t need as much extra body fat to trigger it.

I don’t know at what age Hungarian women usually reach puberty, but I’d suspect that like my ancestors, it’s relatively low and at a lower weight than most Americans today. The current American average age for puberty is pretty low, but the Americans are heavier and have higher body fat than Hungarian kids.

I’d take the Hungarian eye as another indicator that even White people should consider reverting back to an old fashioned to paleo diet.

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 4:32 am a black guy who reads this blog

I just Googled Toccara’s photo, and let me tell you – Roissy probably picked the WORST one. there are far better pix of her online, and she can stand up to any white woman anyday. i take back my ambivalent comments about her earlier. roissy just happened to choose the wrong picture

as far as tiffani amber theissen…if thats really her, godDAMN has she gone downhill in the last fifteen years. she now looks like the trailer trash you always see on daytime TV shows like “judge judy” and “cheaters”

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 6:38 am Obsidian

Nicole,
Interesting comments on what constitutes a “quality Man”. In light of that, my own previous comments on the matter could be taken to be representative of what you said, in that I have never cared what anyone else thought of who or what I liked or why.

Thanks.

O

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 7:34 am Obsidian

Can someone please confirm the identity of the first photo? Its labeled “Cristina” but there’s no last name. Just curious as to who the lady is. Thanks.

O

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 12:14 pm omw

Well, dougjnn, it’s true that I ought not to have married a guy who proved to be a spineless loser, and realizing this mistake early, I divorced him six months in.

Nobody really lost anything except some cherished illusions.

Here’s how the ultimatum game worked for me back at age 19:

He pursued me first. Then we formed a LTR, more by default than anything; it’s not like he was awash in options, this being a military town, and I liked the protection of being in a “relationship” in an area where single girls are like walking neon targets for every dumbass with an opening script.

For awhile, it was a win-win situation.

18 months in, I got very tired of playing house with no official commitment in sight (and without the freedom to date more genuinely interested prospects.)

Indeed, what was I doing, wasting my best years on a guy who didn’t even know what he wanted to be doing in two years?

Told him, “Propose or move on.”

Unprepared for marriage, he moved on.

Well and fine; there are plenty more fish in the sea, and I was only nineteen, after all.

A week later, he decided it was lonely out there, and showed back up with an engagement ring.

This smooth move, of course, only served to irritate me further and eradicate the last shreds of respect I had, but, being nineteen, I didn’t listen to myself and couldn’t understand why I felt that way.

It was “irrational,” and good decisions are supposedly never based on irrationality.

After all, it was marriage I was wanting, right? And it was marriage he was offering, so I should have been happy, right?

Wrong. What I wanted was a man who wanted ME and knew his own mind, not to be saddled with a wishy-washy boy floating around in a sea of expedience and uncertainty.

So. Should I have stayed married to this guy and had a half-a-dozen kids by him?

Why or why not?

Your following alpha-male-is-so-screwed-by-mean-feminist-divorce-court-rant is entirely unrelated to that situation.

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 12:24 pm omw

Anyway, there are still plenty of men out there who actually do want to marry, even in a culture full of random hookups and aimless long-term “relationships”– and a decent-looking girl who is serious about marriage doesn’t have to settle for 185 pounds of pure spinelessness, either.

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 1:01 pm ironrailsironweights

besides, if youve ever gone to an outdoor event during the summertime, youll know that fat/chunky white women DO EXIST

Or just walk into any Wal-Mart.

Peter

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 1:46 pm Harris

A little too fat > a little too thin > way too thin > way too fat

Hourglass-figured big girls (black chick pictured) > hourglass-shaped thin girls > all poorly shaped women, including the pear-shaped white big girl pictured

Hourglass-shaped big women with pretty faces >
Hourglass-shaped big women with OK faces >
Thin but pretty women >
All ugly women regardless of WHR or shape or weight

LikeLike
on February 24, 2009 at 10:46 pm turtle

I’d take that black chick over Keira anyday of the week.

Keira needs a “This Side Up” tattoo on her stomach so the dude fucking her doesn’t think her breasts are extremely hard as he mistakenly rubs her shoulder blades.

LikeLike
on February 25, 2009 at 9:22 am kano

A thin girl with a ugly face is ok, take her from behind or use a paper bag or two, (double bag is my favorite)

A fat girl with a cute face is not ok, take her from behind will not help, a paper bag will just make it worse! I don’t care if they have big breasts, it’s the shape that counts!

Both of these girls are way to FAT. I’m not fat so why have some girls have to be fat? It’s unsexy!

I leave the fat girls for the fat boys, you earn it.

LikeLike
on February 25, 2009 at 8:06 pm dougjnn

chicnoir–

“@dougjnn, Megan Fox has a new set of C’s and they look fake. So did Pamela Anderson’s C-cups in her baywatch days.”

I don’t care if they’re fake or even look fake, I still want them. Well I’d a lot prefer if they didn’t look fake but were still so luscious.

Flatish chested women in the higher income strata or able to get there or marry there are fighting a losing battle one this front. Big C up girls. Way to go. Or if you’re big framed, D’s. End it there.

LikeLike
on February 26, 2009 at 9:56 pm Wounded Animal

#1 is fat. Her limbs and breasts are out of proportion to her torso and she’s carrying excess avoirdupois in her face.

I voted #2 not fat because she’s proportioned, and has a comparatively taut face and torso. She’ll have to work at it later in life though.

LikeLike
on February 26, 2009 at 10:10 pm Wounded Animal

Here’s a better question, roissy: which one would look better naked? #2, slam dunk. Hourglass shape turns men on at a primal level. #1 would really have to know some tricks to compete with that.

LikeLike
on February 27, 2009 at 12:21 pm February 2009 Comment Winner « Roissy in DC

[…] a Bitch, doing what he was put on this earth to do: both are fat, would only let them give me head. i would also try my best to gizz on their […]

LikeLike
on March 4, 2009 at 8:31 pm The King

Very interesting post! Were you trying to illustrate the difference angle shots make in photos? Clearly they both fat, but the black women looks a little thinner, because of her angle. Do they weigh the same?

LikeLike
on March 6, 2009 at 12:45 am Claire

“If You Want To Be Miss Piggy All You Deserve is Kermit The Frog

I cannot stand fat bitches, period. There is always some fucking excuse or some rationalization amongst fat bitches as to why they are fat and similar rationalizations amongst the LOSER guys who chase fat women. Losers that will bang anything. You don’t need “game” if you will fuck anything. Watch carefully who replies to this saying the fat black chick isn’t fat, somehow, but is just “curvy”. Fuck you. Fuck you all.”

While this is generally correct, I must add a caveat – I spent most of my life reasonably slim, but in just one year I put on 25 kilos. I tried everything to drop that weight but it wasn’t until I was diagnosed as gluten intolerant that things changed. I cut the gluten out completely and the weight almost magically disappeared.

According to my doctor approximately 40% of Anglo Celtics have the gene for this condition and it may be triggered by stress. Something to keep in mind …

LikeLike
on July 14, 2009 at 11:38 am Fat Or Not Fat? « Roissy in DC

[…] adjustable) universality of men’s taste in women, reader Obsidian mentioned the name of a big booty model he found attractive as an anecdotal counterpoint to the observable reality that female beauty is […]

LikeLike
on July 19, 2009 at 11:07 pm A stray Kemal

I would savor both of them. One at a time though. My bed frame can only take a moderate load.

The one at the top has a cute face.

The one on the bottom has nicer breasts and an hourglass figure.

Both are attractive, not as attractive as they would be if they lost a bit of weight, but both are attractive to me.

Neither are *that* fat, though they both could stand to loose some weight for health reasons, they are within an acceptable range of chubbiness for me.

I’m now totally going to get flamed for posting on a dead thread and breaking the “no fat chicks” taboo – openly – but yes, I would seduce both of them.

As for the loser guy comment, I’ve dated slender women, and I’ve dated chubby women. Both have their charms. And both have their disadvantages. Over all I slightly prefer slender women – one they tend to be healthier, two coitus is easier with a slender feme. But in all things its a matter of degrees. Chubby is ok, obese is not. Slender is nice, skinny is not. Moderation folks.

We are all old enough, and mature enough, not to give a flying fuck what adolescents happen to think of our personal sexual choices now.

Aren’t we.

LikeLike
on August 10, 2009 at 7:17 pm Meade Skelton

They are both hot looking girls. And a lot of skinny people with hideous looking faces are jealous because they realize you can be BIG and beautiful !

LikeLike
on August 13, 2009 at 7:37 am chrisssssss

kieth is fisty
why are you dead shits on this anyway
who cares if they are fat or not
i rekon they are both hot as fuck
why should they go to the gym to accomadte your arses
im here to look at funny replies
and im fucking laughing
at the clear insecurities the majority of you have
you say you wouldn fuck them
cause you quite clearly would NEVER get them

LikeLike
on September 28, 2009 at 10:44 pm demon36952

well if any of u losers think that the white girl is fat u are only somewhat right but if u think that the black chick is hot what is wrong with u. the black chick is ugly but the white one isn’t so thas y i would fuck the white girl cause she looks nice

LikeLike
on May 5, 2010 at 5:24 am RevoRob

The white chick is wayyyyyyy fat.

The black chick is chubby and hot only because she has nice tits!

LikeLike
on May 9, 2010 at 4:33 am Silvio Berlusconi

Both are fat, but I’d rather pump the first one. She’s white so at least she won’t smell like a sweaty pig

LikeLike
on May 18, 2010 at 12:42 pm U.N. Owen

Both women are fat.
But they are also both attractive overall.
I’d date either one with no problems.

LikeLike
on May 30, 2010 at 2:42 pm Victor

I’d hit bot of them, with an aluminum baseball bat.

LikeLike
on June 16, 2010 at 10:47 pm R.Sole

First is fat, second is chubby/curvy but will be fat in a few years if she doesn’t change her diet & exercise habits.

Oh, and Toccara is much hotter than Keira Knightley.

If you want to check out straight men’s preferences in women, look at porn vids. The women are mostly hourglass figures with bigger boobs, hips, and asses than average, and are usually short or mid-sized, rarely tall. Faces are cute but not beautiful. If you want to check out gay men’s preferences in women, look at a fashion runway – tall, skinny, flat-chested, beautiful/regal faces, no asses.

If Toccara lost 20 lbs she’d have a smoking hot perfect porn star body. Keira can eat or workout as much as she wants, she’s never going to have an hourglass figure or any boobs or ass.

LikeLike
on June 16, 2010 at 10:53 pm R.Sole

Oh and the preference for thin women has only really existed for about 50 years,

[editor: riiiiiight. and the preference for alphas has only existed for 50 years.]

and only in the west and asia (where all women are thinner). In Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East, curvy women are still preferred. And in the 19th century and before, curvy women were seen as more beautiful. In Reubens time they were positively fat.

This is one case where Roissy is the one telling pretty lies.

LikeLike

Comments are closed.

	William of Orange Co… on Mocking The Globohomo Cor…
	vfm#7634 on The Confound Of Silence
	Dirtnapninja on Mocking The Globohomo Cor…
	Dread Forman on “Conspiracy Theory…
	Captain Obvious on The Confound Of Silence
	markgm28 on The Confound Of Silence
	Captain John Charity… on “Conspiracy Theory…
	posts only tweets on “Conspiracy Theory…
	Dread Forman on “Conspiracy Theory…
	gunslingergregi on The Confound Of Silence

Chateau Heartiste

Fat Or Not Fat?

237 Responses

Pages

Twitter Updates

Recent Comments

Top Posts

Categories

Game

MAGA MEN

Syllogism and Synthesis

Chateau Heartiste

Fat Or Not Fat?

Share this:

Like this:

Related

237 Responses

Pages

Twitter Updates

Recent Comments

Top Posts

Categories

Game

MAGA MEN

Syllogism and Synthesis