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Chateau Heartiste

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« Shocker! Beautiful Woman Chooses Man Who Beats Her Silly
February 2009 Beta Of The Month »

Anti-Game

March 2, 2009 by CH

Damian and I were at a multi-floored historic building converted into a lounge (a not uncommon idiosyncrasy of the city) that features the hottest female waitstaff and bartenders in the city.

Damian bumped my elbow and motioned me to look toward two attractive blondes — a 7.5 and an 8.5 — who were standing near us. Two men had just walked up and engaged them in conversation. Both men were, as far as I can tell these things, decent-looking, over 6 feet tall, and in shape. One was older– late 30s, early 40s — and sharply dressed with a dash of gray around the temples. His buddy was late 20s, early 30s, and dressed more casually. The younger guy had a frat boy-ish vibe, while the older guy struck a more sophisticated pose.

Since all four of them were within earshot, I focused my listening attention on the group, occasionally glancing over, so I could enjoy the spectacle of these guys running whatever game they had on the two blondes. When I see a choice setup like this, I take it as an opportunity to observe and learn or, in the case of men with no game, to amuse myself and gawk at the carnage, while positioning for a flanking maneuver.

Approach

The men went straight in, telegraphing their interest from the word “go”. Opened with “Hey, how you guys doing?” Points for boldness, demerits for shitty opener. Even in socially overheated crowded venues, the best approach is noncommittal — from an angle, over the shoulder. Also, it doesn’t hurt to be a little more creative than “How you doin’?”.

Girls’ Reaction

The poor approach didn’t hurt these guys. The girls welcomed them with big smiles and enthusiastic hellos, probably because the men were reasonably good-looking compared to the average man in the place. The older man looked like he was of means.

Body Language

The men registered the girls’ positive reaction and took the beta bait, amping up their energy levels and enthusiasm. This was my first hint that a pickup attempt disaster was looming. The younger guy began grinning ear to ear like an idiot, and bobbing his head up and down each time the girls talked. The older guy maintained a more aloof body language, keeping his back straight and avoiding any “pecking” or leaning into the girls. He didn’t wildly smile like his fratboy buddy. I could see he had more self-control and experience than his younger friend. His economy of words and body movement made him seem the more confident of the two men. If I noticed that, then surely the girls noticed it as well.

Conversation

The men ran what I call Chit Chat Game. This is the kind of conversation you make with someone when you are bereft of anything interesting to say. “What do you think of this place?” “You guys live in the city?” “Hey, the martinis here are really good.” “You guys like to dance?” “Whoa, you’re from North Carolina?” “How about those Tar Heels!” The fratboy latched onto this subject because it was in his comfort zone. “Yeah, you’re a Tar Heels fan? All riiiiiight!! High five!”. He tried to hold the high five with the 7.5 for a second too long, but she dropped her hand fast.

Yes, the guys were actually talking college sports. I could *feel* the initial attraction drain out of the girls, like a nail in a tire slowly letting out air. Their smiles had turned plastic, and they began gripping their drinks tighter and holding them up higher on their chests. The hotter one made a series of quick sidelong surveys around the room.

The older man wasn’t talking as much, but when he did he had a steadier, calmer cadence than his sports fan friend. Unfortunately for him, he didn’t lead and take control of the conversation when it started sputtering into lame sports talk territory. What he did contribute was of the “business interview” variety. More mature than gushing over the Tar Heels to be sure, but still death for pickup.

Escape

Surprisingly, Fric and Frac managed to stay in set for fifteen minutes. I chalked it up to the niceness of the girls — they were very forgiving of horrid game that would have sent the typical urban lawyer chick into massive shit test, ball crushing mode, after suckering the tools for free drinks of course. These two girls must have been from out of town — way out of town.

The 7.5 delivered the cockblock signal to her friend — a thin-lipped entreaty and an almost imperceptible eyebrow raise — but that was all it took for her to get the message.

“Well, we’re going to go upstairs now. See you!” As they turned and slithered away from the men, Fratboy looked over his shoulder at them and in a sickeningly pleading voice moaned “Aww, you guys are going upstairs?? All right, maybe we’ll see you up there!” The girls didn’t bother looking back.

Denouement

Damian found all this the height of hilarity, but also was overcome with an urge to pummel the beta out of these guys. He believes bad game is more nauseating than eating a spoiled enchilada. It really is like rubbernecking at a particularly gruesome car accident. I enjoy bad game in others because it means less competition for me. This is why I support gay rights. I want as many men as possible to feel comfortable embracing the butt pirate lifestyle and thus removing themselves from hetero circulation.

Fratboy and Boring Gent talked amongst themselves, obviously planning a way to reconnect with the girls. Someone needed to be charitable and interject to explain the futility of their situation, but no man’s ego is strong enough to handle that sort of constructive criticism, especially not in the chaos of the field. Instead, we watched them climb up the stairs to meet their by now long gone girls.

We didn’t have the heart to tell them that the only thing upstairs were the bathrooms.

Rebirth

Later, I bumped into the hotter girl on the first level of the club. I smiled at her.

“So, how did those guys do?”

She laughed.

*********

A lot of losers in love insist that “being yourself” is morally superior to “manipulating and seducing” a girl with game. They have an instinctual aversion to anything that doesn’t conform to the beta script of “boy meets girl and sometimes magic happens in a most satisfyingly natural and unforced way, as God intended”. They believe any conscious effort to make oneself more attractive to the opposite sex is inherently dishonest.

They are wrong. Honesty is recognizing that women have different desires and appealing to that. Dishonesty with yourself is ignoring this fundamental fact of the sexes, and selfishly expecting women to be attracted to your principled obstinacy.

What game-hating beta losers don’t comprehend is that the opposite of Game — casual chit chat — can increase a man’s failure rate with women who would otherwise prefer that he not disappoint them so. “Being yourself” isn’t an ethically or strategically neutral stance; it is an unnecessarily negative obstacle to connecting with women in the way they want you to connect with them. Despite what women claim, they would really rather you run some game on them so they can feel those good feelings that are aroused by skilled practitioners of the art of indulging the female psyche. They just don’t want you to tell them you’re running game.

The two girls were happy to be approached by the two men on account of their style and looks. But Anti-Game quickly eroded whatever attraction was there initially. These guys were being themselves, and it cost them dearly. They were “honest” according to the beta playbook, and they were punished for their honesty.

Anti-Game is the equivalent of being an ill-prepared Boy Scout. Anti-Game is to men what going out wearing baggy pants and flannel shirt, no makeup, and greasy, unkempt hair is to women. Sure, you may be good-looking enough to pull some ass despite your lack of game or your figure-concealing unflattering clothes, but you’ll be needlessly limiting your options.

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Posted in Beta, Game, Pretty Lies, Rules of Manhood, The Big City Life | 402 Comments

402 Responses

  1. on March 2, 2009 at 1:47 pm Seeking Alpha

    I see it’s a snow day for the commenters. At least the host came through.

    Interesting post. Maybe what confuses the people you’re calling ‘anti-game’ is that they think the opposite of ‘being themselves’ is being fake. No one is suggesting you pretend to like a subject that you don’t, or you claim to have a job that you don’t, or something (although that’s certainly one strategy). Just changing up your packaging and presentation isn’t immoral.

    I really like good anime. I think Akira is awesome. I don’t talk about this at lunch meetings at work and I also don’t talk about it meeting girls. Am I dishonest because I talk about travel or good restaurants or whatever? Of course not. I love that stuff too. And when I’m hanging out with friends who like anime, I don’t talk about travel and good restaurants. It’s not about being dishonest, it’s about being a good conversationalist.

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  2. on March 2, 2009 at 2:02 pm Gunner

    The being yourself thing is a road block for a lot of people, but I don’t think it needs to be. When you talk to a woman and you try and ingratiate yourself to her are you being yourself? You wouldn’t behave that way in another situation. Why is this behavior, altered for the situation, more sincere than another, more effective, behavior? I think you can go even farther and behave without guile, without seeing women in terms of what they can do for you and try to enjoy the interaction itself with no goal in mind.

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  3. on March 2, 2009 at 2:05 pm ironrailsironweights

    The theory about World War II and its effects on the beauty of Russian women is intriguing, but as far as I know it’s never been proven to be correct (if proof is even possible). One thing to note is that a very large number of young British men died in World War I, with lasting effects on women’s marriage prospects, yet British women born in the 1920’s and thereafter didn’t seem to have any particular reputation for beauty.

    Peter

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  4. on March 2, 2009 at 2:05 pm Firepower

    ugh, a painful vivisection of failed Game. Sometimes I find myself practicing this type of lame convo when ‘fluff’ or ‘banter’ is determined a requirement – or I find the girl boring.

    ugly

    and it shows how f’d up women are

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  5. on March 2, 2009 at 2:12 pm The G Manifesto

    Great story on horrible Game.

    I always laugh, when I see this kind of stuff go down, which is all the time.

    Although, guys like this should just pack it up and not “clog the scene” at a bar or nightclub.

    It kind of sounds like the older, sharper dressed cat should have shoved the younger guy down the staircase when no one was looking.

    Some points:

    NEVER talk about sports with girls. Either escalate the sexual attraction or pull away. Or both. Always.

    Skip the “high-fives”. That is what weesh guy does.

    If your “running partner” is a moron like frat-boy above, Go For Dolo.

    86 the “chit chat game”

    The opener was horrible, but functional. If you dress sharp as a box cutter and are brutally handsome (like me for instance) you can get away with weaker openers. Sometimes simple can be better. I still go with more creative stuff. More style points.

    “Aww, you guys are going upstairs?? All right, maybe we’ll see you up there!” – Wow.

    That line made me cringe.

    Players Court Verdict:

    Guilty for having No Game. On all counts.

    – MPM

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  6. on March 2, 2009 at 2:16 pm The G Manifesto

    If my Game could be transposed into boxing this is what it would look like (fyi):

    Ruthless, dynamic, powerful and deadly.

    – MPM

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  7. on March 2, 2009 at 2:18 pm Ba1anced-A Beta with Alpha Tendencies

    Seriously,

    All I see from this situation is two men that “failed” with two women…but that doesn’t mean the said men are domed to betadom. It’s no the end of the fuckin’ world. They should keep it moving and keep talking to other chicks in the venue. After all , it’a a high probability that they weren’t looking for anything special. I think even if you put some top ranked PUA’s in the situation, the “failure” rate would have been the same. It is a game of numbers, and you need to rack up as many numbers of attempts *BUT* learn from each one so that your game becomes intuned with the female psyche to a point where all their emotional responses are naturally brought out of you. That is the mistake I think men make, they don’t analyze their past interactions with women to see what tidbits of wisdom they can learn.

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  8. on March 2, 2009 at 2:20 pm mandy

    “a 7.5 and an 8.5”

    What is the point of designing the 10 point scale if you delve into decimals? The beauty of only 10 categories is the simplicity.

    A girl is either an 8 or she is not.

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  9. on March 2, 2009 at 2:20 pm kdg

    H writes: A lot of losers in love insist that “being yourself” is morally superior to “manipulating and seducing” a girl with game.

    This is a false dichotomy. When the losers say “be yourself,” they mean don’t try at all, which is wrong. You can “be yourself” and still have game. The trick is to figure out what game works for you and what doesn’t.

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  10. on March 2, 2009 at 2:21 pm Thursday

    Points for boldness, demerits for shitty opener.

    If you are going to go direct, it is best to really go direct. “Hi, I thought you were cute and wanted to meet you.”

    But then again you opening line doesn’t really matter that much. Most naturals use lame situational openers. I’ve used them myself and they work fine. “Hey, you’re wearing red.” All that is really required is to break the ice.

    Honesty is recognizing that women have different desires and appealing to that.

    Riffing and bantering back and forth with women is fun. Teasing and busting on women is fun. Passing shit tests is fun. Conveying your passion about something on an emotional level is fun. For both of you. There is nothing phony or inauthentic about any of these things.

    Dishonesty with yourself is ignoring this fundamental fact of the sexes, and selfishly expecting women to be attracted to your principled obstinacy.

    Exactly. Not giving women what she truly needs and wants from a relationship is profoundly selfish.

    What game-hating beta losers don’t comprehend is that the opposite of Game — casual chit chat — can increase a man’s failure rate with women who would otherwise prefer that he not disappoint them so.

    I quibble a bit here. A lot of betas think they should be rewarded for deep, “sincere” conversations, not for casual chit chat. What betas don’t understand is that this type of conversation already _is_ an essential part of game. It’s called comfort. But while comfort is necessary, it is not sufficient. And it needs to be brought out sparingly. Just as many men like to honestly connect with women, but only after women have met their minimum looks threshold, most women want to connect with men, but only after men have met their minimum game threshold.

    I do think there is a legitimate objection to faking an emotional connection with someone. Sincerity has it’s place. But I don’t see how learning how to banter, how to be fun to be around, how to deflect shit tests, how to be funny, how to lead, how to properly escalate physically or just generally to be interesting to women are somehow in competition with sincerity.

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  11. on March 2, 2009 at 2:23 pm The G Manifesto

    ” You can “be yourself” and still have game. The trick is to figure out what game works for you and what doesn’t.”

    The real trick is to become Game.

    – MPM

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  12. on March 2, 2009 at 2:29 pm The G Manifesto

    “Points for boldness, demerits for shitty opener.

    But then again you opening line doesn’t really matter that much.”

    Openers only matter to “set the stage”.

    The words you use really don’t matter.

    Your confidence and energy do.

    I used “Hola” as an opener on Friday night to a fly super rich Mexican girl.

    With a smile and a pause.

    She smiled and laughed in response because of my positive energy (I was wearing a $3700 Custom Suit, Savile Row, which might have played a role as well).

    From there, it was just some Spanish Game, some Confidence, some cigarettes and some take-aways and I was home free.

    – MPM

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  13. on March 2, 2009 at 2:32 pm Thursday

    It is also preposterous to suggest that a physically repulsive or unappealing woman is equivalent to a man lacking game.

    Lack of game in men and ugliness in women are almost exactly equivalent.

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  14. on March 2, 2009 at 2:36 pm razorback

    Holy shit.

    I can remember being that frat boy a few years ago. Desperately trying to find commonalities, laughing at every little thing she said, fidgeting around, being “nice” — the more I asked for advice from females on dating, the more I did shit like this.

    The not-so-sad part about these types is that they become so arrogant that they never see what they’re doing wrong. Frats are a breeding ground for betas.

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  15. on March 2, 2009 at 2:37 pm tokyojesusfist

    No they are not.

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  16. on March 2, 2009 at 2:40 pm Anon

    The irony is that your description of the those 2 guys pretty much describes the average “PUA”.

    Those guys lasted 15 minutes with those girls. How’d you do?

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  17. on March 2, 2009 at 2:44 pm Bwahaha

    No point in arguing with toykobetafisted about anything. He’s got his solution: date ugly, subservient women who all look alike (aka Asian women). This is what most failure betas end up doing, of course. If only I had a dollar for every loser dork sporting an ugly Asian girl around town…

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  18. on March 2, 2009 at 2:47 pm dougjnn

    Very effective post. Great intro post for sceptics and maybe even better for the hostiles — mostly feminists.

    This plus one or two of yours showing you using game effectively would make a dynamite intro.

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  19. on March 2, 2009 at 3:00 pm tokyojesusfist

    Bwahaha

    No point in arguing with toykobetafisted about anything.

    I’m not a beta, or an alpha. I don’t play the game so I’m not bound by its arbitrary rules.

    He’s got his solution: date ugly, subservient women who all look alike (aka Asian women).

    You’re welcome to post any scientific evidence supporting the notion that Asian women are ugly by any objective or subjective standard (good luck). As for subservient, I really wouldn’t know.

    Asians do not look alike. I recommend that you get an eye examination. Or a brain examination.

    This is what most failure betas end up doing, of course.

    You have no evidence to support the assertion that I’m a “failure,” whatever that is supposed to mean in this case.

    If only I had a dollar for every loser dork sporting an ugly Asian girl around town…

    And if only I had a dollar for every forum poster who has an irrational, inexplicable hatred towards Asian women. I’d be rich enough to buy a small country and hire a private army to protect it.

    Is there any reason in particular why trolling me seems to be your sole purpose on this blog?

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  20. on March 2, 2009 at 3:08 pm Bhetti B

    If I started talking to a guy that I’d just met about how much I loved shopping for shoes and ‘LIEK THIS IS AN AWESOME PARTAAY [I HAVE TWO BRIANCELLS]!’, when I was trying to project being interesting, I would’ve failed miserably as well. It’s common sense.

    I object to the assertion (that you used probably just for ease of reference) that idle chit chat about absolutely nothing is a person being themselves. It says they can talk and communicate in a friendly way, i.e. that they can socialise, but nothing else about them. I think the core premise of game is to really bring out your actual (masculine) self: the interesting, the playful, the unique and the assertive.

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  21. on March 2, 2009 at 3:11 pm 3point5

    great analysis – I am going to use the “man, that was painfull from over here” line once the beta boys walk the plank.

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  22. on March 2, 2009 at 3:15 pm Chuck

    The thing people get mixed up about is that they confuse their “comfort zone” for their identity of themselves. In other words, their true self is the one who resides in that comfort zone.

    All Game does is teach a man that his comfort zone is just not cutting it with the ladies. To be successful he has to extend himself to areas he wasn’t previously comfortable with, and this usually works to his advantage.

    As for myself, I abstained from changing my hair style or my clothing style because I felt I wasn’t being true to myself. I didn’t want to draw attention from people for trying to be something I’m not. After getting out of my comfort zone though, I found that women were more attracted to me, I felt more confident, and my core identity was still intact.

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  23. on March 2, 2009 at 3:18 pm The G Manifesto

    Bhetti B

    “If I started talking to a guy that I’d just met about how much I loved shopping for shoes and ‘LIEK THIS IS AN AWESOME PARTAAY [I HAVE TWO BRIANCELLS]!’, when I was trying to project being interesting, I would’ve failed miserably as well.”

    If you are super hot, you wouldn’t have failed.

    At least that night.

    – MPM

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  24. on March 2, 2009 at 3:25 pm Chuck

    Has it ever been touched on here (I’m sure it has, and it’s probably been aimed at David Alexander) that some men, always beta or lower, don’t actually want their bar Game to succeed with attractive women?

    If they did succeed then they’d have to put their money where their mouth is. It’s like in Texas Hold ‘Em. Some guys get a good hand but freeze up. They don’t want to push their hand any further to extract as much money as they can from their opponents because they don’t want to have to face the possibility of calling bluffs and making it to a showdown on the river.

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  25. on March 2, 2009 at 3:29 pm Jane

    I completely agree.

    People tell us “Be yourself.” But what the hell does that mean?

    I say “Be who you want to be. And if you are consistent, then you will no longer just be pretending but will have now actually become that person.”

    Always be the first rate version of yourself,
    not the sucky/loser/lazy/stupid regular you.

    Because let’s face it.
    Most of us aren’t born perfect. We have to continually work to become better. But progress is what makes life fun.

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  26. on March 2, 2009 at 3:37 pm Ethan

    “Just be yourself”

    The advice from Mom, female friends, and spiteful exes that don’t want you to hook up with any other female despite having moved on to new dick themselves.

    Women give extremely bad dating advice due to the inability to be completely honest about what they’re really attracted to (cue up every cliche of “I want a nice guy who listens to me blah blah nauseating blah”

    What would really be sad is if those two guys walked out of their saying “Man, the girls here are seriously stuck up!”

    Nah my friend. Inner circumstances determine the outer.

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  27. on March 2, 2009 at 3:38 pm The G Manifesto

    Jane,

    “Be who you want to be.”

    Well said.

    I think Jay-Z said it best:

    “Everybody look at you strange, say you changed
    Uh, like you work that hard to stay the same
    Uh, game stayed the same, the name changed
    So it’s best for those to not overdose on being famous
    Most kings get driven so insane
    That they try to hit the same vein that Kurt Cobain did”

    – MPM

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  28. on March 2, 2009 at 3:39 pm PCBPIPER

    “Has it ever been touched on here (I’m sure it has, and it’s probably been aimed at David Alexander) that some men, always beta or lower, don’t actually want their bar Game to succeed with attractive women?”

    This is absolutely true. Even after I started learning game, I still wasn’t comfortable using it. I wanted it to fail because it would mean that what I was doing before (being a super duper swell nice guy) wasn’t actually hindering me.

    Luckily, I’ve realized I was just being a puss. I think that there’s a tipping point for every guy on this issue.

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  29. on March 2, 2009 at 3:44 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    I really enjoyed reading this, great story.

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  30. on March 2, 2009 at 3:44 pm Chuck

    “I think that there’s a tipping point for every guy on this issue.”

    Yes. And usually that tipping point occurs when the man has realized that he just doesn’t care about the outcome insomuch as it affects his ego. When he stops placing his failure or success as a man on his failure and success with his targets, he will transcend “the realm of David Alexander.”

    It seems, and is true in my case, that this doesn’t happen for most men until their mid to late 20s, if not later. It’s coupled with the cold, hard, brutal realization that there is no benefit to being yourself with most women, b/c they don’t want “your self.”

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  31. on March 2, 2009 at 4:00 pm Brad

    I cringed while reading what those two idiots did. I share his opinion, the more gay/betas out there, the better for me. I can’t believe that for a while, this was all I knew how to do. I was actually practicing HORRIBLE skills. Skills that would HURT me in the long-run.

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  32. on March 2, 2009 at 4:03 pm Sparks123

    It’s not even about having game, just being interesting would have been enough. The girls probably wanted to get picked-up and wanted those guys to succeed, but they were completely unable to differentiate themselves from the rest of the crowd.

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  33. on March 2, 2009 at 4:07 pm tokyojesusfist

    Sparks123

    The girls probably wanted to get picked-up and wanted those guys to succeed, but they were completely unable to differentiate themselves from the rest of the crowd.

    If they had wanted to get “picked up,” they could have just said “let’s go over to our place and have sex.”

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  34. on March 2, 2009 at 4:15 pm Thursday

    If they had wanted to get “picked up,” they could have just said “let’s go over to our place and have sex.”

    Spoken like a man who knows nothing about women and female sexuality. Dammit, why can’t a woman be more like a man? Ultimately, these kinds of quarrels are more with women than with their seducers.

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  35. on March 2, 2009 at 4:17 pm tokyojesusfist

    I am merely making the generous assumption that women are capable of rational thinking.

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  36. on March 2, 2009 at 4:18 pm Dave from Hawaii

    I’m not a beta, or an alpha. I don’t play the game so I’m not bound by its arbitrary rules.

    You have spent alot of time reading and writing on this blog…yet you display absolutely no comprehension whatsoever about the topic of “game.”

    This comes from your determination to denounce advocates and practitioners as somehow morally inferior to your enlightened self.

    You are deluding yourself.

    The rules are not arbitrary. “GAME” is just the word to describe men aware of the behavior that inspires attraction in females.

    Game is nothing more than the observations and descriptions of the mating marketplace, and how it works between the genders. Just because you don’t ascribe to the language of “game” uses doesn’t mean the principles don’t apply. You are not the exception to the rule.

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  37. on March 2, 2009 at 4:20 pm twiceaday

    TJF:
    “I am merely making the generous assumption that women are capable of rational thinking.”
    When it comes to attraction and mating, that would be a false assumption.

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  38. on March 2, 2009 at 4:22 pm Cali

    I don’t believe in the “be yourself” thing. Case in point: I went to a couple house parties on a recent night wearing Aldo sneakers, eurotrash jeans, and a soccer jersey. Thinking I was South American or European, girls would climb over each other to open me. It was the closest to rap star status I’ve ever been (sadly). I left with more hot girls’ numbers than usual–hell, than ever.

    Effortlessly adopting a bogus persona and false biographical details apparently helped me pick up girls. Considering that I look the same regardless of whether my hometown is Cleveland or Prague, and my fake European accent isn’t very sexy to listen to, I’m very, very disappointed in women.

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  39. on March 2, 2009 at 4:23 pm Bhetti B

    G Manifesto: I would’ve failed at being interesting, which has nothing to do with how I look. Unless sexual attraction really makes guys think that kind of talk is enthralling.

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  40. on March 2, 2009 at 4:25 pm Seeking Alpha

    so they can feel those good feelings that are aroused by skilled practitioners of the art of indulging the female psyche

    TJF – This is probably useless, talking to you, but I’ll try. What sparks didn’t say was ‘they just wanted to fuck – whoever it was’. What he said was ‘they wanted to get picked up’. What he was referring to was his point that I quoted to above. They want to feel that girlie feeling that comes from pushing the subconscious buttons that women respond to. Just like a man wants to feel that masculine feeling of having a woman look up at you with adoring eyes.

    Women are rational in pursuing their subconscious desires. H (and game) identifies those subconscious desires and offers paths to satisfying them. It’s all fully rational if you have your eyes open. But you’ve come to this board with a pre-conceived notion of the whole thing which you refuse to let go of.

    The first time I read this blog I thought – wow what an asshole. But most things he’s said are both rational, and borne out in experience.

    If you stepped out of the land of the theoretical, and actually tried your own solutions versus ‘game’ solutions, you’d find one working much better than the other.

    Better in both short-term and long-term relationships. There are plenty of commenters on this blog in committed, monogamous relationships that testify that ‘game’ helps them strengthen their relationships. You can disagree with this all you want, but given your complete lack of practical experience, you have to admit you don’t have much credibility.

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  41. on March 2, 2009 at 4:26 pm Gunslingergregi

    Still can’t believe everyone acts like the playing field is equal. What about drug game. If you have drugs woman will go with you and fuck you to get the drugs because your cool over the guy who just has his personality.

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  42. on March 2, 2009 at 4:27 pm Rain And

    If they had wanted to get “picked up,” they could have just said “let’s go over to our place and have sex.”… I am merely making the generous assumption that women are capable of rational thinking.

    This is confused thinking. They don’t want just any sex, they want sex with a man who has made them feel horny.

    “Rational thinking” has little to do with drives and emotions. You cure hunger with food, not with “rational thinking”.

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  43. on March 2, 2009 at 4:33 pm Bhetti B

    LOL! I think Rex Harrison got more than he bargained for; how he would eat his words if he’d see the ‘manly’ women, oh Lord. Really guys, if you think your male friends are so perfect and amazing, just leave woman alone and become gay. Or do your best to turn one of them into a woman (or turn yourself into one?).

    LikeLike


  44. on March 2, 2009 at 4:33 pm Bhetti B

    women* I can’t speak Engleezi today, dear God.

    LikeLike


  45. on March 2, 2009 at 4:35 pm Gunslingergregi

    Worked in resteraunt many moons ago and the waitreses all smoked weed or did coke so it would be pretty hard to go out with them if you could procure neither. One aspect of game that men who do not get woman or put them on a pedestal really don’t understand.

    LikeLike


  46. on March 2, 2009 at 4:37 pm Bhetti B

    Gunslinger: I think this man is onto something. He clearly has gamed a lot of celeberities.

    LikeLike


  47. on March 2, 2009 at 4:38 pm tokyojesusfist

    Dave from Hawaii

    You have spent alot of time reading and writing on this blog…yet you display absolutely no comprehension whatsoever about the topic of “game.”

    I understand it just fine.

    The rules are not arbitrary. “GAME” is just the word to describe men aware of the behavior that inspires attraction in females.

    That’s like saying that the rules of basketball aren’t arbitrary, because basketball is just a word used to describe people throwing balls through hoops.

    Just because you don’t ascribe to the language of “game” uses doesn’t mean the principles don’t apply. You are not the exception to the rule.

    I don’t play the game, and thus the rules don’t apply to me. I’m sure you’d love to drag me down to your level, but you can’t. Deal with it.

    Seeking Alpha

    TJF – This is probably useless, talking to you, but I’ll try. What sparks didn’t say was ‘they just wanted to fuck – whoever it was’. What he said was ‘they wanted to get picked up’. What he was referring to was his point that I quoted to above. They want to feel that girlie feeling that comes from pushing the subconscious buttons that women respond to.

    Then why call it picking up?

    But you’ve come to this board with a pre-conceived notion of the whole thing which you refuse to let go of.

    “Pre-conceived” is a word extremely popular with people who can’t deal with the fact that someone won’t agree with them.

    If you stepped out of the land of the theoretical, and actually tried your own solutions versus ‘game’ solutions, you’d find one working much better than the other.

    I am not interested in casual relationships, and thus I have no use for game.

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  48. on March 2, 2009 at 4:39 pm Sparks123

    I think Rex Harrison got more than he bargained for; how he would eat his words if he’d see the ‘manly’ women

    Women have only become more like men in the most negative of ways (aggressive, career-obsessed), they still possess the flakiness and inability to be straightforward that Harrison sang of.

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  49. on March 2, 2009 at 4:39 pm xsplat

    @23 Chuck

    The thing people get mixed up about is that they confuse their “comfort zone” for their identity of themselves. In other words, their true self is the one who resides in that comfort zone.

    Trenchant.

    LikeLike


  50. on March 2, 2009 at 4:41 pm Jane

    G Manifesto,

    Jay Z is a smart guy.
    Just check out his lady.
    You know he’s got game.

    LikeLike


  51. on March 2, 2009 at 4:41 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Worked in resteraunt many moons ago and the waitreses all smoked weed or did coke so it would be pretty hard to go out with them if you could procure neither. One aspect of game that men who do not get woman or put them on a pedestal really don’t understand.

    Irrelevant….just like beta’s or omega’s with a lot of money.

    You got the drugs, the chicks will just “hang out with you” long enough to get the free blow or tokes, than give you that nice hug and kiss on the cheek goodbye when they leave to go meet the men who really turn them on.

    Of course, if they’re coke whores, that’s a bit different – than they are just straight up prostituting themselves for their fix.

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  52. on March 2, 2009 at 4:41 pm Seeking Alpha

    I am not interested in casual relationships, and thus I have no use for game.

    You completely side-step the fact that game is useful for both short and long-term relationships, both casual and serious ones?

    LikeLike


  53. on March 2, 2009 at 4:45 pm Wounded Animal

    “I’m not a beta, or an alpha. I don’t play the game so I’m not bound by its arbitrary rules.”

    Then you’re not getting laid.

    Or, if you’re getting laid, you’re playing it notwithstanding your protestations to the contrary.

    LikeLike


  54. on March 2, 2009 at 4:45 pm Keith

    “NEVER talk about sports with girls. Either escalate the sexual attraction or pull away. Or both. Always.”

    Nah, if she’s wearing sports gear in a casual setting, then that makes for a good opener, especially if you can put down her team.

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  55. on March 2, 2009 at 4:47 pm tokyojesusfist

    Wounded Animal

    Then you’re not getting laid.

    Why would I want to get laid?

    Or, if you’re getting laid, you’re playing it notwithstanding your protestations to the contrary.

    If I was getting laid, how would that mean that I’m playing the game?

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  56. on March 2, 2009 at 4:49 pm gig

    personal experience: do the chit chat game (talk about where you two came from, the place you are, what/where you study or studied, what is your work and hers, talk about the weather both where you are and where you two came from supposing those are different places) but put some negs in the middle of the conversation. pay attention to body language, girls probably notice it more than what you are saying.

    Pretend boredom, if you are talking for enough time. Pretend and correct it in the very next moment. She will think you find her boring but is trying to hide it. If it is done in the right moment, it works as a high-voltage neg.

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  57. on March 2, 2009 at 4:50 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea Bhetti that probably is a better choice for most men in us. Avoid woman like they all have aids and only use the hookers who do have aids. Would save a lot of pain in the end.

    Ever notice the “betas” are often content to sit at a table drinking all night and do not even try to pick up woman. I think the trying to aquire woman by betas thing is overrated. They may want a woman but they do not step up to them to try to run game or to be themselves.

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  58. on March 2, 2009 at 4:51 pm Dave from Hawaii

    I don’t play the game, and thus the rules don’t apply to me.

    David Alexander doesn’t “play the game.”

    So you don’t have sexual relations with female(s)? Just your hand and an internet porn collection?

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  59. on March 2, 2009 at 4:53 pm Taff

    “Why would I want to get laid?”

    David Alexander had a child and named him Tokyojesusfist.

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  60. on March 2, 2009 at 4:53 pm Wounded Animal

    Oh Lord. I feel like Brer Rabbit and the tarbaby. Here goes…

    The question of why you would or wouldn’t want to get laid is not one I was addressing. But if you are getting laid, it’s because you have convinced a female you’re a better recipient for her affections than your competitors. Game.

    It’s like the laws of physics: they apply whether you want them to or not.

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  61. on March 2, 2009 at 4:53 pm The G Manifesto

    Sparks123

    “It’s not even about having game, just being interesting would have been enough.”

    Often times it is. “being interesting” is a huge part of the Game formula.

    “The girls probably wanted to get picked-up and wanted those guys to succeed, but they were completely unable to differentiate themselves from the rest of the crowd.”

    Most girls (the ones worth swooping) want you “to succeed”. Its not as if they want you to be a moron.

    Differentiating yourself is another huge part of the Game formula.

    – MPM

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  62. on March 2, 2009 at 4:55 pm twiceaday

    TJF:
    “Why would I want to get laid?”
    Because you’re a normal adult human being? This is just as ridiculous as asking why you’d want to eat or breathe. I understand that you don’t want casual sex, which is fine, but presumably you do want to have sex within the confines of a loving, committed relationship, right?

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  63. on March 2, 2009 at 4:56 pm tokyojesusfist

    Dave from Hawaii

    So you don’t have sexual relations with female(s)? Just your hand and an internet porn collection?

    Game != all sexual relations with females.

    It’s remarkable how childishly black and white the PUA world view is.

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  64. on March 2, 2009 at 4:56 pm The G Manifesto

    Gunslingergregi,

    Well said.

    I have mentioned “Drug Game” on here many times and people hardly take notice.

    In my typical USA enviorns (Southern California, Miami Beach, NYC, Las Vegas) Drug Game is as much a part of Game as almost anything.

    News just in:

    Many fly girls do drugs.

    – MPM

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  65. on March 2, 2009 at 5:02 pm Thursday

    RE: Drug Game

    “Do you have any weed?” = Take me back to your place for sex.

    LikeLike


  66. on March 2, 2009 at 5:02 pm tokyojesusfist

    Wounded Animal

    But if you are getting laid, it’s because you have convinced a female you’re a better recipient for her affections than your competitors. Game.

    It can be game, but it is not necessarily game. Game is a game, and you either play it or you don’t.

    It’s like the laws of physics: they apply whether you want them to or not.

    You guys really are desperate to drag everyone down to your level.

    twiceaday

    Presumably you do want to have sex within the confines of a loving, committed relationship, right?

    That has nothing to do with game.

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  67. on March 2, 2009 at 5:05 pm Dave from Hawaii

    It’s remarkable how childishly black and white the PUA world view is.

    It’s remarkable how much self-denial and self-delusion a person can display despite having been shown the truth over and over again.

    Wounded Animal wrote it perfectly – “But if you are getting laid, it’s because you have convinced a female you’re a better recipient for her affections than your competitors. Game.”

    If you don’t get that, you never will.

    You’re conflating PUA with Game. PUA USE Game to accomplish their goal.

    But it doesn’t only work like that.

    If you’ve been married for 10 years, you STILL have to inspire attraction in your wife…or she’ll cheat on you and/or divorce you – or become your sexless, platonic roommate.

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  68. on March 2, 2009 at 5:05 pm The G Manifesto

    Thursday

    “RE: Drug Game

    “Do you have any weed?” = Take me back to your place for sex.”

    Exactly.

    I wrote a piece on that: The Greatest Pick up Line of All Time

    http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2007/08/greatest-pick-up-line-of-all-time.html

    – MPM

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  69. on March 2, 2009 at 5:06 pm Dave from Hawaii

    You think we’re trying to “drag you down” to our level.

    No, you dumbass, we’re trying to open your willfully blind and ignorant eyes to the truth.

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  70. on March 2, 2009 at 5:11 pm Bwahaha

    I told you not to bother with that Yellow Fever having fucktard tokyoanalfisted. His ideal girl is probably an anime character.

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  71. on March 2, 2009 at 5:13 pm tokyojesusfist

    Dave from Hawaii

    It’s remarkable how much self-denial and self-delusion a person can display despite having been shown the truth over and over again.

    Really? What “truth” would that be?

    If you don’t get that, you never will.

    There’s nothing to get, because Wounded Animal is spouting bullshit.

    You’re conflating PUA with Game. PUA USE Game to accomplish their goal.

    Where did I claim otherwise?

    If you’ve been married for 10 years, you STILL have to inspire attraction in your wife – or she’ll cheat on you and/or divorce you – or become your sexless, platonic roommate.

    What does this have to do with anything?

    No, you’re obviously trying to drag me down to your level. There’s no way you can deny that.

    You’re trying to drag me down to your level. That’s the reason why you insist that everyone is forced to play the game (which is the same as claiming that everyone is forced to play basketball).

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  72. on March 2, 2009 at 5:13 pm Wounded Animal

    You guys really are desperate to drag everyone down to your level.

    I wish. I’m not a PUA.

    And Dave has nailed it: the iron laws apply, married or unmarried, DC yuppie or Amish farmer.

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  73. on March 2, 2009 at 5:14 pm tokyojesusfist

    Bwahaha

    I told you not to bother with that Yellow Fever having fucktard tokyoanalfisted. His ideal girl is probably an anime character.

    Go take this racist shit to Stormfront, where you belong.

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  74. on March 2, 2009 at 5:16 pm tokyojesusfist

    Wounded Animal

    And Dave has nailed it: the iron laws apply, married or unmarried, DC yuppie or Amish farmer.

    Cool, does this mean the laws of basketball and World of Warcraft also apply at all times?

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  75. on March 2, 2009 at 5:17 pm dougjnn

    Bhetti B–

    “G Manifesto: I would’ve failed at being interesting, which has nothing to do with how I look. Unless sexual attraction really makes guys think that kind of talk is enthralling.”

    In a sense it does. More accurately if you’re hot enough, it causes us to 1) put the best possible spin on your completely uninteresting spiel in our own minds (“ok she’s a fashionista, but at least she’ll probably dress hot (I know often not but that’s not the point)”) and 2) ignore the issue to the maximum amount possible – e.g. guide you into returning banter on something or a rapidly richoching raft of somethings that doesn’t bore us to utter distraction. Women rarely do that for men. Or rarely do these days. If you are into movie classics before the 60s you’ll see women actually often do this with better provider beta types, often following their mother’s advice.

    But it does grate A LOT longer term. Meaning maybe the second or third encounter.

    It reduces your pump and dump sexual attractiveness a little, but your gf potential hugely.

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  76. on March 2, 2009 at 5:19 pm Thursday

    TJF:

    I’ll make it reeeeeal simple for you:

    1. Women are primarily attracted to a man’s personality as manifested in his behaviour.

    2. Game = the personality traits and behaviours that are attractive to women.

    3. Game is amoral, just like power is amoral. Like power, it can be used for either good or evil.

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  77. on March 2, 2009 at 5:21 pm tokyojesusfist

    Thursday

    2. Game = the personality traits and behaviours that are attractive to women.

    Game = game. No different from any other game.

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  78. on March 2, 2009 at 5:21 pm The G Manifesto

    Bhetti B

    “G Manifesto: I would’ve failed at being interesting, which has nothing to do with how I look. Unless sexual attraction really makes guys think that kind of talk is enthralling.”

    If I wrote off girls for simply the dumb stuff they say, I wouldn’t swoop 100+ fly girls per year.

    So no, that kind of talk is not enthralling, but it doesn’t dis-qualify a girl either.

    Long term yes.

    Short term no.

    – MPM

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  79. on March 2, 2009 at 5:22 pm Wounded Animal

    Game is a subset of laws of human interaction. So if humans are interacting, they’re applying. Trust me, I really, really wish they didn’t but they do.

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  80. on March 2, 2009 at 5:22 pm towson

    Can someone explain to me why tokyojesusfist even posts and reads here? The way he talks one would think he’d find something else better to do with his time rather than read a blog he never agrees with?

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  81. on March 2, 2009 at 5:24 pm gig

    You need to follow:

    -the rules of game when dealing with women
    – the rules os baseball when playing baseball
    – the rules of WoW when playing WoW

    if you fail to do this, you will end up

    – being cheated/divorced or simply abandoned
    – lose the match
    – make some other freak happy

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  82. on March 2, 2009 at 5:25 pm Milton Freedman

    Can you do a post on kino escalation. This is something that really isn’t touched on by a lot of pugs because they are content to tell you to memorize routines, but when it comes to touching their only advice is to sack up. That’s about as useful as “be yourself”.

    Also what would you recommend for younger guys to differentiate themselves. The only thing that is ever recommended is have access to alcohol. Well that isn’t always an option for those of use who don’t want a rap sheet and actually have goals that go beyond sex, drugs, and rock and roll. I know social circle is very important, but its hard to get people to stay with you as your group, beyond the initial meeting and vibing period.

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  83. on March 2, 2009 at 5:28 pm tokyojesusfist

    Wounded Animal

    Game is a subset of laws of human interaction. So if humans are interacting, they’re applying. Trust me, I really, really wish they didn’t but they do.

    I’m always right, and everyone else is always wrong. That’s a law. An iron law.

    towson

    Can someone explain to me why tokyojesusfist even posts and reads here? The way he talks one would think he’d find something else better to do with his time rather than read a blog he never agrees with?

    Can someone explain to me why so many people start these retarded meta-arguments instead of staying on topic?

    gig

    You need to follow the rules of game when dealing with women.

    No.

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  84. on March 2, 2009 at 5:31 pm towson

    tokyo, since you responded, why not answer the question?

    Everyone has stayed on topic, explained to you the whole point of game, yet you continually shoot it down with some kind of agenda. I rarely post, just read, but you always seem to parrot the same crap. So I ask. Why? Why do you even read the blog and comment? To disprove the exact thing a shit ton of people have experienced that works?

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  85. on March 2, 2009 at 5:32 pm tokyojesusfist

    Go whine somewhere else towson.

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  86. on March 2, 2009 at 5:32 pm Dave from Hawaii

    You’re trying to drag me down to your level. That’s the reason why you insist that everyone is forced to play the game (which is the same as claiming that everyone is forced to play basketball).

    No one is forced to play the game.

    David Alexander is the perfect example of refusing to play the mating game.

    But even if he changed his mind and decided to try and mate with one of his idealized, fake boobed porn star, he would still have to find a way to get his targeted female to be attracted to him…whether it’s for a one night stand or a til death do they part marriage.

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  87. on March 2, 2009 at 5:33 pm Seeking Alpha

    TJF – I thought you prize rationality? Why won’t you answer his question?

    LikeLike


  88. on March 2, 2009 at 5:34 pm Bwahaha

    tokyoanalfisted wants to turn us all into Asian-loving beta males who don’t want to get laid. That’s his life mission.

    LikeLike


  89. on March 2, 2009 at 5:34 pm towson

    haha, who’s whining? just was curious. nice answer though, I’ll refrain from questioning you then, you’re obviously the tits.

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  90. on March 2, 2009 at 5:34 pm tokyojesusfist

    But even if he changed his mind and decided to try and mate with one of his idealized, fake boobed porn star, he would still have to find a way to get his targeted female to be attracted to him…

    … which does not need to involve game.

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  91. on March 2, 2009 at 5:35 pm tokyojesusfist

    Bwahaha

    tokyoanalfisted wants to turn us all into Asian-loving beta males who don’t want to get laid. That’s his life mission.

    Was Stormfront offline? I’m sure you can find some other racist forum if you Google hard enough.

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  92. on March 2, 2009 at 5:35 pm Wounded Animal

    Also what would you recommend for younger guys to differentiate themselves. The only thing that is ever recommended is have access to alcohol. Well that isn’t always an option for those of use who don’t want a rap sheet and actually have goals that go beyond sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

    Lift weights and study hard in a marketable field. If you have the time and money, take up a complex hobby.

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  93. on March 2, 2009 at 5:36 pm Taff

    “Go whine somewhere else towson.”

    As ever a strong well argued rebuttal from the thinking trolls’ troll.

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  94. on March 2, 2009 at 5:38 pm tokyojesusfist

    towson is trying to instigate a random off-topic argument, so he if anyone is a troll.

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  95. on March 2, 2009 at 5:41 pm towson

    Nope, was honestly just curious as to your intentions here. I love talking this topic, reading the responses, and picking up new shit from others. it’s obvious you don’t believe in game. Since that is the main topic of this blog, why did you read and post here? to make us follow you? I don’t get it?

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  96. on March 2, 2009 at 5:42 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ Milton Freedman

    First, as the resident annoying libertarian, I have to point out you spelled his name wrong.

    Second, getting alcohol as a kid a) won’t give you a rap sheet and b) won’t prevent you from reaching your goals.

    In fact, a lot of the highest paying jobs – certainly law, business or finance – usually have a lot of socializing and draw people who like to go out. Even at the hedge fund I work for, where the average person is pretty bookish, (as am I…. when I’m sober), it’s never been an obstacle that I like to go out and it helps build relationships with co-workers and people you work with at other firms.

    But, to answer your question, working out is definitely a good idea. At that age, it’s really more about being a more confident person, which takes time. The biggest thing is to change your frame of mind when going into a situation with girls. You’re not trying to win their approval.

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  97. on March 2, 2009 at 5:43 pm Taff

    “towson is trying to instigate a random off-topic argument, so he if anyone is a troll.”

    That’s the first time I think I’ve seen TGF try and offer an explanation for a comment rather than just a bland statement of denial.
    Well done gold star for you m’lad.

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  98. on March 2, 2009 at 5:44 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Why? Why do you even read the blog and comment? To disprove the exact thing a shit ton of people have experienced that works?

    I think it’s quite obvious. TJF gets a sense of superiority by reading this blog and the comments. He thinks he’s above “game” and that all of us that study/apply it are at a “lower level.”

    TJF participation here is nothing more than mental masturbation.

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  99. on March 2, 2009 at 5:47 pm towson

    and the thing is your posts detract from the main topics and conversations throwing people off track and making them get into pissing matches with yourself. So, in essence, you ruin the blog a bit when you make these comments centering around yourself and inherent stubborn attitude toward game. People respond in kind to you explaining why it works. You turn down the argument without any real supporting evidence, eventually piss match ensues. Anyway, just was curious but I’ll leave it alone.

    re:milton freedman

    like the previous to have said, the gym is always good. do things you find interesting, what you want to do, if it’s something you’ve always wanted to do, do it. I think I’m about to start boxing.

    little things that can make women think, hmm, this guy’s got his shit together. And much agreed with seeking alpha here, you’re not trying to win anyone’s approval, you do these things for yourself

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  100. on March 2, 2009 at 5:48 pm Thursday

    You need to follow the rules of game when dealing with women.

    Let us rephrase this for TJF’s overly literal brain.

    You don’t have to follow the rules of game or even play the game, but you do have to face the consequences of that decision.

    If you don’t follow the rules of game, your wife/long term girlfriend will either:

    a. leave/divorce you;
    b. cheat on you; and/or
    c. turn into your sexless roommate.

    All this assuming you can even get a (non-ugly) wife/long term girlfriend.

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  101. on March 2, 2009 at 5:49 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ towson – I was thinking of taking up boxing. Let me know if you do it. I’d feel stupid going to a ‘boxing gym’ without knowing what I’m doing, so I’m not sure how to go about learning.

    LikeLike


  102. on March 2, 2009 at 5:50 pm The G Manifesto

    Milton Freedman,

    “Can you do a post on kino escalation. This is something that really isn’t touched on by a lot of pugs because they are content to tell you to memorize routines, but when it comes to touching their only advice is to sack up.”

    This is cause most fools that write about swooping girls never swoop girls. (I am not taking a shot, who through his writing you can tell knows what he is talking about).

    Here is a great, 0ld-school, easy kino escalation move, straight out of The G Manifesto playbook:

    Get a girl to leave a bar with you to go to another restaurant/ bar etc.

    Always walk on the outside of a girl on the street. (Style and Class, and in the old country, it ment a girl was with you, not for sale.)

    Put your hand on the small of her back. When you get to a curb, grab her hand. and help her up/ down it.

    Girls like to be protected. If she pulls way from either kino move, you know she is a weesh girl. Pull away yourself…see how she likes that. She will probably grab your hand back.

    “Also what would you recommend for younger guys to differentiate themselves.”

    Read (so you are intelligent), smoke cigarettes and dress sharp. If you are a younger guy, have an interesting hobby, like surfing huge waves around the world, for instance.

    “The only thing that is ever recommended is have access to alcohol. Well that isn’t always an option for those of use who don’t want a rap sheet and actually have goals that go beyond sex, drugs, and rock and roll.”

    Sex, booze and drugs should be the goal.

    Rock and Roll you can interchange with Hip-Hop, 70’s soul and Blues.

    – MPM

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  103. on March 2, 2009 at 5:52 pm tokyojesusfist

    Taff

    That’s the first time I think I’ve seen TGF try and offer an explanation for a comment rather than just a bland statement of denial.

    Maybe you should actually read my posts. I dunno, that might work.

    Dave from Hawaii

    I think it’s quite obvious. TJF gets a sense of superiority by reading this blog and the comments. He thinks he’s above “game” and that all of us that study/apply it are at a “lower level.”

    You can’t try to drag me down to your level if I’m not above you. Obviously.

    Thursday

    If you don’t follow the rules of game, your wife/long term girlfriend will either:

    a. leave/divorce you;
    b. cheat on you; and/or
    c. turn into your sexless roommate.

    All this assuming you can even get a (non-ugly) wife/long term girlfriend.

    If you don’t do (random shit I just made up), you will (severe consequences). It must be true because I say so.

    You guys are so fucking delusional it’s not even funny.

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  104. on March 2, 2009 at 5:52 pm towson

    seeking alpha,

    being a gym rat for the past 4 years, I’ve been wanting to do it for awhile. I signed up for a free trial on a website for a gym in Baltimore over winter break, but they never ended up sending me anything. I student teach right now so my schedule is a bit busy but I should try and look around more now that I’ve mentioned it again. I’ll let you know.

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  105. on March 2, 2009 at 5:54 pm The G Manifesto

    Seeking Alpha and Towson,

    Take it from someone who has boxed since a little kid and boxed Golden Gloves (and wanted to box pro, but found a better way to “cake up”)

    Do it.

    Best exercise you can possibly do.

    Still a huge Confidence booster whenever I do it to this day.

    – MPM

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  106. on March 2, 2009 at 5:57 pm The G Manifesto

    Once you start sparring, the mental aspects of Boxing help your Game.

    Boxing really is a Chess match – only you can get your head knocked off.

    I always relate Game to Boxing, it is how my mind works. That’s why I said above:

    “If my Game could be transposed into boxing this is what it would look like (fyi):

    Ruthless, dynamic, powerful and deadly.”

    – MPM

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  107. on March 2, 2009 at 5:57 pm tokyojesusfist

    G Manifesto

    Always walk on the outside of a girl on the street.

    I’m sure this makes a huge difference.

    Read (so you are intelligent), smoke cigarettes and dress sharp

    Haha, what? Someone should begin an unhealthy and potentially lifelong addiction just to marginally increase his chances with (some) women? And smoking is something that will differentiate him from everyone else?

    I hope nobody is dumb enough to take your advice seriously.

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  108. on March 2, 2009 at 5:58 pm towson

    Thanks G,

    and btw, you, seeking alpha, and others, always great insights from you guys on here. Appreciate ’em.

    Being in college, it’s awesome refining things all the time trying out new ideas on the fine specimen in this area.

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  109. on March 2, 2009 at 5:59 pm Kthulah

    Tokyo, then go do your thing, and God bless you.

    Now, if you don’t mind, the rest of us are having actual debates and discussions.

    I can see why you’re so against game. Your parents apparently never even taught you manners.

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  110. on March 2, 2009 at 6:00 pm Thursday

    RE: Kino Escalation

    Rough order for kino on first meeting. Roughly the same thing for Day 2s. Probably only 1 and 2 for day game.

    1. Always touch on the shoulder/upper arm immediately in _any_ interaction. One you get any IOIs, arm around the shoulder.

    2. High five her when she does something she likes. After the first hold onto her hand and see if she squeezes back.

    3. Side hug when she does something you like. Go for the full hug the second time or if she does something you really like.

    4. Arms around her waist. Hands on her side/stomach.

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  111. on March 2, 2009 at 6:00 pm Seeking Alpha

    MPM (MPL?)

    I agree with all that stuff, but how do you get started as an adult. I would definitely enroll my kids in a boxing program when they’re little, but there’s no ‘adult’ version of that, is there?

    Should I just put up a bag at home at start with that? Are there personal trainers for beginning adults? One things’ for sure – if I went to your classic shithole (in a good way) boxing gym my first time, I’d look like an idiot.

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  112. on March 2, 2009 at 6:01 pm tokyojesusfist

    Ktulah

    Now, if you don’t mind, the rest of us are having actual debates and discussions.

    Echo chamber != debate.

    I can see why you’re so against game. Your parents apparently never even taught you manners.

    Coming from you, this is hilarious.

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  113. on March 2, 2009 at 6:02 pm Taff

    TJF – I do from time to time. I’m inclined to think that doing so is like passing an avacado seed: Time consuming, quite pointless, and certainly not worth repeating.

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  114. on March 2, 2009 at 6:02 pm The G Manifesto

    tokyojesusfist

    Always walk on the outside of a girl on the street.

    “I’m sure this makes a huge difference.”

    It does if you have Style and Class. If your a chimp, nothing will make any difference.

    “Haha, what? Someone should begin an unhealthy and potentially lifelong addiction just to marginally increase his chances with (some) women?”

    Yes dumb-dumb. We all die anyways. And it doesn’t “marginally increase the chances”. It all but guarantees them.

    “And smoking is something that will differentiate him from everyone else?”

    Yes. 100% of fools who get zero girls are non-smokers.

    – MPM

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  115. on March 2, 2009 at 6:02 pm Thursday

    random shit I just made up

    The rules of game have been set by the evolutionary process. They are not arbitrary.

    LikeLike


  116. on March 2, 2009 at 6:03 pm Milton Freedman

    G Manifesto never disapponts. Sorry, but I’m bit young for the bars, it’s frats and house parties for me. I prefer sober chicks anyway. I find female drunkenness contemptible.

    @ Seeking Alpha, I meant if you are underage, it can cause unnecessary worry and problems. Sure, I love to go out and chill and meet people. It’s the knowing how and when to put your hands on a girl (eg while on the dance floor) that won’t lead to an explosion of bitching that I am looking to figure out. I’m trying to simplify this as much as I can because I need most of my concentration onto my school work.

    Oh and tried the gym thing for a few years. Yeah it can feel good, but it doesn’t really do much for interactions with women.

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  117. on March 2, 2009 at 6:03 pm Thursday

    Almost forgot.

    5. Kiss

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  118. on March 2, 2009 at 6:05 pm Milton Freedman

    G with your kind of cash you could probably buy immortality in a few years.

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  119. on March 2, 2009 at 6:06 pm Kthulah

    Tokyo, what you find hilarious is not relevant to this discussion. What is relevant is that it seems you are only posting here for the purpose of insulting “easy targets” from a “safe distance”.

    Whether or not it is received as such, the intent is abusive.

    Check yourself.

    Before you insult others, take care that your own motivations are clean.

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  120. on March 2, 2009 at 6:07 pm Seeking Alpha

    Nicole, you have to find the irony in him saying that the discussions between you and us are an echo chamber…

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  121. on March 2, 2009 at 6:07 pm tokyojesusfist

    The G Manifesto

    It does if you have Style and Class. If your a chimp, nothing will make any difference.

    It has nothing to do with style and class, it’s just more arbitrary nonsense. It makes no difference.

    Yes. 100% of fools who get zero girls are non-smokers.

    Smoking is so commonplace that it isn’t going to differentiate you from anyone. And in any case, deciding to take up smoking just to marginally increase your chances with women is absolutely fucking retarded. You can easily get women without being a smoker.

    Thursday

    The rules of game have been set by the evolutionary process. They are not arbitrary.

    You’re pretty much like a religious fanatic.

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  122. on March 2, 2009 at 6:07 pm Cannon's Canon

    I like to tell a particularly audacious story to girls during the comfort-building stage. The punchline is when a big black guy touched my half-erect cock, twice, after watching some porn to see if I was with it. It’s about as crude as you can get and betrays all my unappealing vices (football, binge drinking, video games, porn, and likely a few others). However, it’s sexually-charged and very unique; I call it “the best story you’ll ever hear” when I lead into it. Obviously, my own glaring confidence to share such a story adds to its impression.

    I try to tell it only when the frame of conversation can apply, like talking about the good ol’ college days, but in a pinch, it also wins over big groups like a charm. Oh yeah, it’s “interesting” and “true to myself.”

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  123. on March 2, 2009 at 6:08 pm The G Manifesto

    Seeking Alpha

    “Should I just put up a bag at home at start with that?”

    You should have bags at home, but don’t just do that.

    There are tons of “MMA” gyms out there today. Just tell them you just want to learn boxing. Most have a pure “boxing guy” on staff.

    Take private lessons. The last thing you want to do is a group class like some monkey, with girls in your class.

    “if I went to your classic shithole (in a good way) boxing gym my first time, I’d look like an idiot.”

    Possibly. I grew up in “old-school” gyms so I feel comfortable in them. But I can see how they can be intimidating.

    Go to a newer-school MMA gym.

    – MPM

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  124. on March 2, 2009 at 6:09 pm Chuck

    G:

    “Yes dumb-dumb. We all die anyways. And it doesn’t “marginally increase the chances”. It all but guarantees them.”

    Gotta disagree with this overstatement. While people who smoke have that laid-back demeanor that is a hallmark of Game, it does nothing to increase a woman’s attraction. You have a causality/causation problem here.

    “Yes. 100% of fools who get zero girls are non-smokers.”

    Perhaps, but moreso because a man who doesn’t smoke is less of a risk-taker than a man who does. Risk-taking is rewarded as is the laid-back attitude of smokers, as pointed out above.

    Don’t mistake this dynamic for the fact that there are plenty of non-smoking men who have Game and are successful with women. Hell, they have to be, what with all of the non-smoking ordinances in bars nowadays.

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  125. on March 2, 2009 at 6:11 pm The G Manifesto

    tokyojesusfist

    It does if you have Style and Class. If your a chimp, nothing will make any difference.

    “It has nothing to do with style and class, it’s just more arbitrary nonsense. It makes no difference.”

    History says otherwise. So does reality. Keep doing what your doing, it obviously isn’t working.

    “Smoking is so commonplace that it isn’t going to differentiate you from anyone.”

    Haven’t been to California is the last 10 years have you?

    “You can easily get women without being a smoker.”

    Yeah. And you can get them even easier by smoking. It is all relative.

    – MPM

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  126. on March 2, 2009 at 6:12 pm Thursday

    You’re pretty much like a religious fanatic.

    Insults are not argument. You offer nothing to refute what I have said. Telling.

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  127. on March 2, 2009 at 6:12 pm Bwahaha

    Funny thing is, if you told tokyoanalfisted that walking on the outside of a girl while on the street was part of Japanese culture, he’d be the first one to do it. He’d bend over backwards and lick his own balls if it was a part of any culture having to do with eating a bowl of rice using a pair of sticks.

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  128. on March 2, 2009 at 6:12 pm tokyojesusfist

    Ktulah

    Tokyo, what you find hilarious is not relevant to this discussion.

    It’s relevant because you’re in no position to criticize the manners of others.

    What is relevant is that it seems you are only posting here for the purpose of insulting “easy targets” from a “safe distance”.

    So in other words I’m an anonymous poster on an Internet discussion forum. How does that make me any different from anyone else in here?

    Before you insult others, take care that your own motivations are clean.

    Irony alert!

    The G Manifesto

    Take private lessons. The last thing you want to do is a group class like some monkey, with girls in your class.

    Pretty much all martial arts training is conducted in groups. And what does it matter if there are women in the class? What the hell are you talking about?

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  129. on March 2, 2009 at 6:14 pm Bhetti B

    G Manifesto: Sorry, am not communicating effectively. In no way did I mean to imply it would lessen the hotness of a girl to be dumb. I was just applying the converse principle to an apparent female-equivalent of sports.

    It really hits me how guys are less selective when we mention stuff like this, I don’t think I could really stand anything like that. I’d be nice and not know how to extricate myself (going to a fictional upstairs? Got it! Check all exits before entering anywhere where males may hit on you).

    ‘Course, the ex loved anime and insisted on calling me chibi/kawaii in what was somehow patronising (also implying I was dumb too many times. Worst combination? Beta PRETENDING to be a nice guy, but the jerk inevitably shows through). It should’ve been sweet.

    I think a proper beta’s like a little boy: you love him and maybe want to care for him, but you’re just not ready to adopt a child right now, and you certainly aren’t going to be sexually attracted to that geeky cute thing. It would be liking a five year old that way: unnatural.

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  130. on March 2, 2009 at 6:15 pm tokyojesusfist

    Thursday

    Insults are not argument. You offer nothing to refute what I have said. Telling.

    That’s probably because I’ve already refuted it many times before, so there’s no need for me to do it again.

    Bwahaha

    Funny thing is, if you told tokyoanalfisted that walking on the outside of a girl while on the street was part of Japanese culture, he’d be the first one to do it. He’d bend over backwards and lick his own balls if it was a part of any culture having to do with eating a bowl of rice using a pair of sticks.

    Hey, good news. I just checked stormfront.org and it’s online. I’m sure your fellow forum members miss you.

    (Doesn’t anyone else think it’s bizarre that this guy follows me around on the blog just to talk about how much he hates Asian women?)

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  131. on March 2, 2009 at 6:16 pm towson

    re: walking on the outside of the girl. Are we talking say, on a sidewalk, outside of the girl, further from the street?

    I always took the logic, stay on the inside by the street, shows you’d be the one to take the hit if some douchebag drives off the road. And even let her know if you can, could be some convo. ‘You know why I always walk on the inside? So I can protect your fragile ass if some douchebag runs off the road’ Usually gets the ‘aww so sweet and protective’ then I just respond with it being obvious considering girls are like I said, more fragile.

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  132. on March 2, 2009 at 6:16 pm Seeking Alpha

    MPM,

    Thanks for the advice. To clarify – I’m comfortable lifting in an old-school gym. I just wouldn’t want to be hitting the bags or getting in the ring without knowing what I was doing.

    You have to see the irony in you suggesting I go to a place probably loaded with Ed Hardy-wearing tools, but I think you’re probably right.

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  133. on March 2, 2009 at 6:18 pm Thursday

    I’ve already refuted it many times before

    We have another creationist.

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  134. on March 2, 2009 at 6:20 pm The G Manifesto

    Chuck

    “Gotta disagree with this overstatement”

    Agreed, possibly an “overstatement”.

    However, smoking has been a social lubricant since the beginning of smoking. It gives girls a reason to pick up on you.

    “it does nothing to increase a woman’s attraction”

    My experience tells me otherwise. Smoking with style can be very seductive towards girls: it brings attention to your mouth, and your lips, and your smile.

    “Don’t mistake this dynamic for the fact that there are plenty of non-smoking men who have Game and are successful with women.”

    True. But as one of my old running partners (who killed it) once said: “The guy who parties the most, gets the most girls”

    Tri-athletes get minimal girls in comparison.

    “Hell, they have to be, what with all of the non-smoking ordinances in bars nowadays.”

    As stupid and annoying as they are, I really think they have helped smokers Game.

    Easier to isolate girls: “come with me while I smoke”

    And less people do it and have cigarettes, so girls will approach you more.

    News just in:

    Most hot girls smoke, or at least will when they are faded at a bar.

    – MPM

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  135. on March 2, 2009 at 6:21 pm towson

    crap, forgot, many variations on my street walking thing.

    Sometimes I’ll start on the outside and make it a point to cross over abruptly causing her to ask why, enabling me not to have just insert the topic into conversation and instead force her to.

    either way, I find it keeps up attraction. add some kino in there after explanation and her giggles

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  136. on March 2, 2009 at 6:21 pm Obsidian

    There’s something fundamentally amiss here in this discussion.

    Dave From Hawaii said to Tokyo, that if he were in a marriage for a decade or more he would better understand his point wrt Game; now, I think it fair to say that Tokyo disagrees. Fair enough.

    But here’s the thing though: DFH (as well as PA) is a married Man, who has “time in” insofar as Women are concerned; so far as I, and perhaps anyone else here, knows, Tokyo not only isn’t married, but doesn’t seem to indicate that he’s currently in a longterm relationship either.

    From this I conclude a number of things, that have already been indicated, but the main point is that while Tokyo is long on declarations and hypothesis, he’s woefully short on actual theory and evidence based on his own researches-and since he fancies himself a rational thinker, he would agree, I hope, that his “theories”, in order to be valid, should be able to be replicated, out in the field. If not, they are untimately, worthless.

    A major component of Game is what are known as “field reports”, accounts of PUAs at whatever level, of their experiences in trying out either established methods out in the field, and/or, trying out completely new methods that they’ve come up with themselves. These “FRs” are often posted in venues like this one, where fellow PUAs can offer advice, instruction or if need be, critique.

    Now, I can respect Tokyo’s position wrt Game, that’s fine. But if he’s going to assert that there’s a “superior” way to accomplish a more serious relationship, then I would think at some point, he has to actually demonstrate his ideas to work in the realworld. Afterall, it can’t get anymoe serious than DFH or PA, two married Men who’ve been posting here since I’ve been a member of this forum, at least 6 months or more? And there have been other married Men who’ve posted their thoughts on Game and how it not only helped their marriages, but saved from from the brink of destruction.

    Of course, Tokyo can and might poo poo all of this, as he seems to have a yen, pardon the pun, for the Self Sealing Argument-a classic logical fallacy. But here’s the bottomline that he must consider, if he’s really serious here:

    Two Men in this forum, who are actively engaged in as commited a relationship as it can get-marriage-have gone on the record repeatedly, and in detail, that elements of Game have demonstrably improved their marriages.

    I’m sure DFH and PA can briefly outline the specifics for Tokyo and the rest of the forum on this point?

    Tokyo, on the other hand, has not offered any actual evidence that what he purports actually works-and if his account right here, is any indication, it indeed acts as prima facia evidence that what Tokyo advocates is at best a Fool’s Errand.

    But, as Tokyo is a rational Man, commited to reason and logic, as well as scientific inquiry and demonstrable method, I am sure he will correct and dispel any misunderstanding on my or anyone else’s part, by actually giving us all some evidence that what he advocates-which is, by the way, “being yourself”-actually works. Since he isn’t married, I don’t think, his time in a LTR can suffice as a legitimate substitute.

    Tokyo, have you been or are you now, married? For how long? Have you been or are you now, in a longterm relationship? For how long?

    Looking forward to the responses.

    The Obsidian

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  137. on March 2, 2009 at 6:23 pm towson

    obsidian, fantastic!

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  138. on March 2, 2009 at 6:25 pm The G Manifesto

    Seeking Alpha

    “I just wouldn’t want to be hitting the bags or getting in the ring without knowing what I was doing.”

    Exactly. You will look retarded in a boxing gym if you don’t know what you are doing.

    Same thing if you paddle out at a well known surf spot and flounder. That’s why I think the new school gym is a better place to start. No need to go to The Kronk.

    “You have to see the irony in you suggesting I go to a place probably loaded with Ed Hardy-wearing tools, but I think you’re probably right.”

    I see it. I don’t really go to “MMA” gyms, although these days they are starting to fuse with boxing gyms.

    I am not opposed. If there are Ed Hardy guy in there, at least they are sparring.

    I really hold my contempt for “Ed Hardy guy” in the nightclub, not the gym.

    – MPM

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  139. on March 2, 2009 at 6:29 pm towson

    I don’t know if this has been discussed with Tokyo but I’m sure it’s been said in some way shape or form.

    But I find part of the goal with game is making it yourself. Of course you want to be yourself, but if you are to do that, make your sure you accentuate those things about yourself that are strengths and amplify those things, making them yourself. I find myself to be a funny, sarcastic fucker loving to bust on people, I incorporate those things into my game and it’s a part of being myself.

    I see nothing wrong with ‘being yourself’ just gotta know what it is about yourself that attracts women and project those things outward.

    Some guys are more introverted and mysterious, that can work great game as well when they’re being themself.

    Hope that makes sense.

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  140. on March 2, 2009 at 6:29 pm metalhaze

    I really like your posts and though sometimes they appear a bit over analytic and exaggerated (but always interesting to read!), I have to disagree with you on the concept of “being yourself” and the need to manipulate women vs being honest.

    First, Being Yourself means not putting up an act, not playing a role and behaving in a way that we think the other person wants us to be (i.e. not trying to think what others want to hear). In other words not being fake, phoney or inconsistent/having multiple personalities.

    Being oneself is actually an unlearning process aimed to remove all of the biases and opinions of others that we have accumulated in life…being one’s self means constantly improving ourselves and unlearning thus constantly creating a new better self.

    Socrates said “the unexamined life is not worth living”.

    On the other hand these guys were not honest as well, perhaps the frat boy “faked” his interest in the college football game. Being honest means being honest with our INTENTIONS. the question of intent is very important, an experienced women can smell a guy’s intent a mile away, hiding it is the beta way.

    These guys were first not being themselves, they tried to play up to these women’s ego by being agreeable (they were not egotistically indifferent and thinking for themselves) and they were not honest about their intentions, i.e. wanting to know these women on a more intimate and physical level.

    There is no harm in telegraphing interest and intentions as long as it is bold, confident, direct, clear and unapologetic and most of all detached from any outcome/result (i.e. non-needy). i.e. I want you but I don’t need you.
    being genuinely curious about someone makes you more likeable than being too aloof/pretending not to be interested at all. of course that does not mean that one has to wear his heart on his sleave for there has to be a balance, a certain equilibrium/equanimity.

    people are afraid to show interest so as not to appear “needy”…well, at the end of the day who knows better if you are truly needy or not? her or you?

    Being provocative with a women and challenging her ego creates erotic tension. These guys did not challenge them at all.

    Furthermore, a confident guy accepts that not all women are interested in him and that there are plenty of fish in the sea vs a manipulative guy who thinks he has to “Convince” subconsciously every women into sleepign with him .

    Yes manipulating women with guilt , punishment and reward with an “aloof/I’m better than you” attitude works with young and naïve women with a fragile sens of self-esteem but at what price? For how long one is going to put up an act before the women wakes up from her dream/nightmare?

    Don’t forget that mystery learned manipulation from Strippers and hired guns.

    I challenge you to try and out-manipulate a highly skilled and seasoned manipulative women in (lots of them in the entertainment industry) as it will most certainly backfire.

    Please do not put Mystery’s game with Zan perrion, David x or Modeone.

    Why fake the funk if you truly have the backbone to back it up. If you are not being yourself then it means that you think your real self is not worthy of these women. being yourself is not a static thing, it is very dynamic.

    I don’t know if you heard of author Alan roger currie, but I urge you to check out his book ModeOne.

    Ps: my whole post was to challenge your own notion of “Honesty” and “Being yourself” and not this specific scene.

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  141. on March 2, 2009 at 6:32 pm Cannon's Canon

    seeking alpha:
    “how do you get started as an adult”

    first step is running: you gotta show up ready for a five mile run/jog. at the amateur level, i think most guys get embarrassed for showing up out of shape rather than not knowing how to box.

    putting up a speed bag or heavy bag can be good exercise but won’t really help you in the ring. the best training is definitely sparring.

    a lot of cities have boxing gyms, so it depends where you’re at. as long as you’re in decent running shape, you shouldn’t have a big problem finding someone to take you under their wing. experienced boxers will “go easy on you” while sparring, maybe withholding combos and focusing on a specific aspect of their own game while you are doing your thing.

    another untapped resource is local universities. lots of big schools have boxing “clubs”, but since the sport is too dangerous to get university funding, in my experience they behave just like regular boxing gyms. turnover is high and you are likely to find a lot of beginners and intermediates here, which you might find comfortable. just talk to the coach before or after practice to see what his protocol is – usually he’s happy to have an extra body.

    hope it helps!

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  142. on March 2, 2009 at 6:38 pm Dave from Hawaii

    I’m sure DFH and PA can briefly outline the specifics for Tokyo and the rest of the forum on this point?

    Given TJF’s attitude and insulting demeanor, I’d rather not. I’m sure he’d react to it much the way the other Game skeptic/cynic/critic keith did, and just say something along the lines of insulting my wife by saying she is dumb or immature for “falling for game.”

    All I can say is by year 7 of my marriage, I had a sexless, platonic roommate with whom I constantly fought and argued with, and we both talked about separation and divorce pretty frequently.

    I always tried to be mr. sensitive understanding guy, trying to reason with her. I thought I was being mature and rational, and above the petty trifles of drama filled relationships of other people I knew.

    I had no clue that the real problem was that I was failing to “man up” and be the guy she was attracted to when we first got married. I had no idea what a “shit test” was, and was failing them miserably.

    Than I read up on ‘game’ and it was like the light bulb went off in my head. I could look back on so many arguments and fights I had with her and recognize that most of them stemmed from me failing a shit test, or the begging her for sex and her turning me down…and I realized that she was in fact being contemptuous of me and highly un-attracted to me because I had become beta to the core.

    But hey, whatever. TJF is not above “game.” He doesn’t even understand what it really is.

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  143. on March 2, 2009 at 6:42 pm Obsidian

    Also, Tokyo asserted something that was false-that we all “have to play the Game”, or words to that effect.

    This is patently false.

    As has already been noted, Dave Alex is a prima facia example of just how *easy* it is for Men in particular to remove themselves from the mating game; all they have to do is sitdown. And a lot more guys, do this, a lot more than you’d think.

    If anything, indeed, its WOMEN who are “forced” to play the Game, for this reason-if they are even marginally attractive, they stand a high chance of being approached by at least a dozen Men a month (and it is not unusual for a very attractive Woman to be approached by hundreds of Men in a month); that number, admittedly somewhat small, adds up over the course of a year or more. And this remains in effect for Women for the balance of her childbearing years, at least into the upper 30s. So, we’re talking about on average, from say 15 years old till about 35 or so, no less than a dozen Men a month, vying for her attentions.

    That’s a lot of dicks, if I may be so blunt.

    For a Man to apply himself to Game, is actually to do something the vast majority of Men out there simply do not do, at all-they play the Game, and they’re in it to win it. Whatever that may mean, to them.

    Oh, by the way Tokyo, you can find all of this in the book the Mystery Method. It’s widely available.

    O

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  144. on March 2, 2009 at 6:42 pm Markku

    Take it from someone who has boxed since a little kid and boxed Golden Gloves (and wanted to box pro, but found a better way to “cake up”)

    Do it.

    Best exercise you can possibly do.

    Still a huge Confidence booster whenever I do it to this day.

    Even amateur boxing could lead to cumulating brain damage, although the evidence is not strong enough to conclusively confirm or disprove the hypothesis.

    Source: http://tinyurl.com/bqgpe6

    Boxing is a fine sport, to be sure, but there are other combat sports to consider.

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  145. on March 2, 2009 at 6:45 pm jackson

    All,

    I don’t listen to tokyojesusfist anymore after he gave this as an example of a “10”

    Draw your own conclusions.

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  146. on March 2, 2009 at 6:45 pm xsplat

    I challenge you to try and out-manipulate a highly skilled and seasoned manipulative women in (lots of them in the entertainment industry) as it will most certainly backfire.

    This is completely not true.

    Consider the art of sex. Sometimes you manipulate your lovers attention in teasing ways. Sometimes in dominant ways, sometimes in submissive ways. Point being you can play a lover like a musical instrument. People use the word “manipulate” as if the antonym is honesty – but the antonym is to-not-not-move. We manipulate peoples attention in every interaction – you can either do it well, or poorly.

    And there are ways to out-manipulate the most skilled and manipulative woman. It might simply be getting her addicted to your cock. It might be some other ploy you excell at. I like to use the analogy of the spider. If the woman initially believes that she is in control, and the master manipulator, so much the better. She is acting like a spider. Litte does she know that you always carry around a box of spider mites, and that your room is actually a lair. To spider the spider can be easier than spidering someone who does not feel that she is in control. Spiders are usually unaware that they can be played.

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  147. on March 2, 2009 at 6:46 pm Markku

    Smoking is so commonplace that it isn’t going to differentiate you from anyone. And in any case, deciding to take up smoking just to marginally increase your chances with women is absolutely fucking retarded. You can easily get women without being a smoker.

    This is what I have to fully agree with.

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  148. on March 2, 2009 at 6:47 pm xsplat

    The antonym of maipulation is to-not-move.

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  149. on March 2, 2009 at 6:53 pm Gunslingergregi

    Tokyo said
    (Doesn’t anyone else think it’s bizarre that this guy follows me around on the blog just to talk about how much he hates Asian women?)

    The above is clearly cry for help and a set up.

    Yea I think tokyo is like that last wierd dude who quit talking once anon nailed the reason for his rambling was because he was a fag. Tokyo never said anything about having yellow fever people have just been infering that because of his name and his alter ego Bwahaha. I also do not think tokyo is asian.

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  150. on March 2, 2009 at 6:57 pm DF

    Seeking Alpha, I’m an avid boxer and have been boxing for years. Don’t worry about getting into the ring prematurely. No good trainer will throw you into the ring without schooling you in the fundamentals. You could do running as Cannon suggests to get your baseline conditioning up but it won’t help that much. Its your upper body that must be conditioned. Running alone won’t prepare you for that. Boxing is like sprinting with your upper body and only after some time will you build enough stamina to sparr effectively. Moreover, it takes a while to get the fundamentals down if you’re a beginner. If you go to a boxing gym, ask for a white collar boxing trainer that will get you up to speed. In order to prepare, I suggest you learn to jump rope, do plenty of push ups, mountain climbers, and birthdays. Plenty of boxing gyms cater to white collar boxers that want to get into the sport for the conditioning, not to compete. That being said, you won’t get good until you can spar 12 rounds.

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  151. on March 2, 2009 at 6:58 pm Keith

    “I’m sure he’d react to it much the way the other Game skeptic/cynic/critic keith did, and just say something along the lines of insulting my wife by saying she is dumb or immature for “falling for game.” ”

    I took a cheap shot, and that was uncalled for. I was in the wrong.

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  152. on March 2, 2009 at 6:58 pm Seeking_Alpha

    Thanks for the tip Cannon.

    I have a feeling I’m going to have trouble finding an MMA or a university style gym real close by, but maybe it could be a weekend thing. There aren’t really any non-corporate gyms in Greenwich.

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  153. on March 2, 2009 at 7:00 pm Seeking_Alpha

    DF – I work out three times a week and I do most of the exercises you mentioned, but what’s a birthday?

    Seems like there are a fair number of people with boxing knowledge here. Anyone know a place in Fairfield County / Westchester County?

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  154. on March 2, 2009 at 7:00 pm David Alexander

    Lack of game in men and ugliness in women are almost exactly equivalent.

    Sadly, one of them is cheaper to fix than the other.

    The advice from Mom, female friends

    As I’ve stated, I’ve had female friends say that I’m a beta, loser, not-charismatic, and boring. The mistress was one of the few women who was an unashamed feminist who stated her desire to feel “protected” by a man, and that I just don’t deliver that feeling.

    I think a proper beta’s like a little boy

    You may not want him as a sex partner, but he’s kinda fun to be around sometimes when the alpha isn’t interested in you.

    If you don’t follow the rules of game, your wife/long term girlfriend will either:

    Hence why if you don’t use game, you shouldn’t even bother with the entire prospect of dealing with women in any sexual matter.

    Plus, admittedly, depending on how friendly she is, being a sexless roommate isn’t that bad, especially since as your significant other ages, her sex appeal decreases significantly. Even bad Catholics like me cringe at the idea of cheating on my potential spouse, so a sexless future will occur whether I get married or not.

    It’s coupled with the cold, hard, brutal realization that there is no benefit to being yourself with most women, b/c they don’t want “your self.”

    Of course, I could always say that if women don’t want the real me, then it’s probably better to eschew women, but I have too many fetishes that requires the fake me.

    The thing people get mixed up about is that they confuse their “comfort zone” for their identity of themselves.

    In my case, my comfort zone is much more comfortable than dealing with women. Besides, the entire concept of David Alexander with game is almost cringe inducing and the source of nightmares. Shudder.

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  155. on March 2, 2009 at 7:01 pm The G Manifesto

    DF,

    “Plenty of boxing gyms cater to white collar boxers that want to get into the sport for the conditioning, not to compete.”

    DF is correct.

    Even the Wild Card Gym (freddie Roach, Manny Pacquiao) caters to “white collar” boxers these days.

    – MPM

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  156. on March 2, 2009 at 7:04 pm The G Manifesto

    Markku

    “Even amateur boxing could lead to cumulating brain damage”

    Everything can lead to everything.

    Most studies are crap.

    Especially the “second hand smoking studies”.

    Inconclusive.

    – MPM

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  157. on March 2, 2009 at 7:05 pm Keith

    “As I’ve stated, I’ve had female friends say that I’m a beta, loser, not-charismatic, and boring.”

    You could use some better friends.

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  158. on March 2, 2009 at 7:07 pm editor

    large hadron troll:
    Plus, admittedly, depending on how friendly she is, being a sexless roommate isn’t that bad, especially since as your significant other ages, her sex appeal decreases significantly. Even bad Catholics like me cringe at the idea of cheating on my potential spouse, so a sexless future will occur whether I get married or not.

    and the Father of Trolls, the Gollum of Infinite Soulsucked Decrepitude, shambles out of his porn cave.

    at least you bring some flair to your trollery, unlike tokyobetagrist.

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  159. on March 2, 2009 at 7:12 pm David Alexander

    at least you bring some flair to your trollery, unlike tokyobetagrist

    As an attention-whoring beta who feeds off self-deprication, I aim to please.

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  160. on March 2, 2009 at 7:19 pm DF

    Seeking Alpha, ‘birthdays’ are known by different names, some call them squat thrusts and there are different ways to do them. Basically, its a squat thrust with a push-up followed by a jump.

    I work out three times a week and I do most of the exercises you mentioned

    The key is whether the intensity of your current workouts are high. That will determine the steepness of your conditioning curve when you first get into boxing. If you’re into CrossFit, I’d say you won’t have a problem.

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  161. on March 2, 2009 at 7:22 pm Seeking_Alpha

    I don’t do CrossFit, but something similar. It’s probably not fast enough for boxing yet though.

    When did you start?

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  162. on March 2, 2009 at 7:23 pm xsplat

    DA, I was once married to a perfectionist. Perfectionists, as we know, have extreme self esteem problems. They can’t stand the idea of not being perfect. I counselled her to make one deliberate mistake, each day. She could not, as it would be too far outside of her comfort zone.

    I eventually had to bail on her, as she was irredeemable. No matter how clearly she saw her serious flaws, she was incapable of altering them.

    I’d like to hope many people can alter their flaws. You say that yours is a lack of motivation or ability to display charisma. Well, you could start by forcing yourself to do one charismatic act each day, and see how that goes.

    But as another poster pointed out, you may not be able to find that motivation until you get your testosterone levels checked, and mostly likely take something to raise them. Motivation can be as simple as that.

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  163. on March 2, 2009 at 7:25 pm towson

    DF

    I go to the gym 6 times a week, lifting every other day. Abs/Cardio on the other days. About 15-17 minutes of HIIT on the eliptical comes out to like 2-2.5 miles, then a bunch of ab exercises. The lifting workouts are fairly intensive as well, about an hours worth, little time between sets, always 10 reps.

    Even though of course the adjustment will be, well, an adjustment, I assume with my youth (22 years old, 5’7 170) and regimen I won’t have too much trouble adjusting to the conditioning?

    I’m gonna visit a gym I just found tomorrow if I have the time and start asking what I can do. Glad I mentioned the boxing earlier

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  164. on March 2, 2009 at 7:26 pm xsplat

    DA, might the whole creepy troll who enjoys being humiliated thing work for you as some sort of sex-submissive?

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  165. on March 2, 2009 at 7:28 pm xsplat

    DA, I was once married to a perfectionist. Perfectionists, as we know, have extreme self esteem problems. They can’t stand the idea of not being perfect. I counselled her to make one deliberate mistake, each day. She could not, as it would be too far outside of her comfort zone.

    I eventually had to bail on her, as she was irredeemable. No matter how clearly she saw her serious flaws, she was incapable of altering them.

    I’d like to hope many people can alter their flaws. You say that yours is a lack of motivation or ability to display charisma. Well, you could start by forcing yourself to do one charismatic act each day, and see how that goes.

    But as another poster pointed out, you may not be able to find that motivation until you get your testosterone levels checked, and mostly likely take something to raise them. Motivation can be as simple as that.

    And might the whole creepy troll who enjoys being humiliated thing work for you as some sort of sex-submissive?

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  166. on March 2, 2009 at 7:29 pm Bhetti B

    DA: fun to be with? Not all betas = nice/fun etc. and I think there’s lots of alpha-substitute type attention (e.g. bosses, colleagues, friends who have dormant alpha qualities…)

    Can’t let a beta too close, or you’ll be the one comforting him next time he wants to commit suicide because he upset one of his friends somehow. As well as that, pressuring for physical contact that you don’t want to have.

    I aim to rather stay on my own then expose myself to that sort of thing.

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  167. on March 2, 2009 at 7:34 pm Tood

    I agree – I hate the ‘be yourself’ nonsense. It is a filter to weed out guys who won’t aspire to self-improvement. It is a suggestion that there is nothing that a man CAN or SHOULD seek to improve about himself.

    And Game, after all, is about MAKING YOURSELF better as a person. It is not something you do, it is someone you become, for real.

    That being said, the fact that these two betas could even do an approach is a plus for them. About 90% of men could not even go that far.

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  168. on March 2, 2009 at 7:37 pm Glengarry Glenpoon

    some men, always beta or lower, don’t actually want their bar Game to succeed with attractive women?

    It’s disconcerting when you realize you’re actually in charge and people are waiting to see what you want them to do. What if you suck?

    Tuck away that feeling to remember, because that was when you were transitioning from beta. If you could hack it.

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  169. on March 2, 2009 at 7:40 pm Gunslingergregi

    Bhetti
    do you think maybe he wanted to commit suicide because the only choice he thought he had was you?

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  170. on March 2, 2009 at 7:46 pm jackson

    Towson,

    Martial Arts will brutalize you. Lifting and running do not compare.

    That said, boxing is a little easier than Muay Thai, and both are less tiring than Jiu Jitsu.

    Just be ready to go hard. It ain’t easy.

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  171. on March 2, 2009 at 7:50 pm Bhetti B

    Gunslinger, you wound me to the depths of my hellish soul with how you zoom in on the truth! You are a genius! WORSHIP THIS MAN, PEOPLE. He must be an apostle from the Gods, he has such piercing clarity with his succinct summation.

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  172. on March 2, 2009 at 7:51 pm whiskey

    I would not advise guys to smoke. First, it is something that will interfere with fitness, and second it turns you off to non-smoking women, admittedly small these days, but why take the risk.

    Next, it distinguishes one-self. Promotes the idea of value and self-control, particularly if lots of guys smoke.

    I would say play a musical instrument proficiently enough to join a band, any band, and play around local places.

    It’s a great opener — “Did I see you at my show last week?” Chicks dig musicians, even part-time guys with a day job. “Hey come see my show next week.” Great invite for IOI.

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  173. on March 2, 2009 at 7:52 pm Gunslingergregi

    Looks like this place is about to move to the next level fight club style.

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  174. on March 2, 2009 at 7:56 pm xsplat

    It’s disconcerting when you realize you’re actually in charge and people are waiting to see what you want them to do. What if you suck?

    I used to have even more social anxiety than I do now, and defaulted to the assumption that people didn’t consider me popular. When meeting new people that didn’t know I was unpopular, it made me feel squirmy inside when they treated me as cool. I didn’t want to be cool. I liked being the outsider.

    Taking on a profession of sales to college girls changed that attitude, as my income then depended on shmoozing.

    But I have some familiarity with it being more comfortable to not be social.

    I’m a lot happier now, and tend to get happier as I age. Being young and insecure deeply sucks.

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  175. on March 2, 2009 at 8:07 pm towson

    Jackson,

    I’m not getting into martial arts. Not yet at least. Only had the desire to start boxing and that’s definitely all I’m starting with.

    Tood,

    “That being said, the fact that these two betas could even do an approach is a plus for them. About 90% of men could not even go that far.”

    I really get the impression that the older dude was not quite beta (though hanging with the obvious beta may put him in that category). He seemed to be carrying himself correctly the whole time given his description and his only mistake was hanging out with the obvious tool at his side. Then again, he could have just been completely beta doing the alpha things that he was doing subconsciously.

    Either way, it was a perfect example of game gone bad, tool boy’s body language, the conversation, the weak attempt as they were leaving. Awful.

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  176. on March 2, 2009 at 8:10 pm PortyPete

    “I enjoy bad game in others because it means less competition for me. This is why I support gay rights. I want as many men as possible to feel comfortable embracing the butt pirate lifestyle and thus removing themselves from hetero circulation”

    I keep trying to tell this to my homophobic friends… i guess they just don’t understand that part.

    hoooray for gays

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  177. on March 2, 2009 at 8:16 pm xsplat

    …and his only mistake was hanging out with the obvious tool at his side

    Not quite. He didn’t insert himself into the flow enough to displace the doofus. Or he could have focused on one of the girls and totally ignored the whole feeling of there being a group to contend with at all.

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  178. on March 2, 2009 at 8:23 pm towson

    “Or he could have focused on one of the girls and totally ignored the whole feeling of there being a group to contend with at all.”

    OK, that’s exactly what he should have done, my fault, good point.

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  179. on March 2, 2009 at 8:28 pm The G Manifesto

    jackson

    Towson,

    “Martial Arts will brutalize you. Lifting and running do not compare. ”

    He is right.

    Boxing is heavy.

    Get ready to puke.

    I still do.

    – MPM

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  180. on March 2, 2009 at 8:36 pm dougjnn

    Bhetti B-

    why not be a married or ltr’d alpha’s other girl?

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  181. on March 2, 2009 at 8:40 pm CN

    1. tokyojesusfist
    Bwahaha
    <iI told you not to bother with that Yellow Fever having fucktard tokyoanalfisted. His ideal girl is probably an anime character.
    Go take this racist shit to Stormfront, where you belong.
    As someone who loves using the n-word, you should take a trip over stormfront as well.

    Towson Sometimes I’ll start on the outside and make it a point to cross over abruptly causing her to ask why, enabling me not to have just insert the topic into conversation and instead force her to
    I hate when people do this and had no idea that it was something men use when running game. I figured the idiots were doing it to be rude. Every time a man abruptly crosses infron of me, I’ve given him the death stare. Last guy who cut me off, poor thing, I had on four inch stilettos when I stepped on his toes(real accident). I said excuse me, and kept on my merry way.

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  182. on March 2, 2009 at 8:42 pm Bhetti B

    Dougjnn, I think you need to rephrase that for me. What do you mean by other girl?

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  183. on March 2, 2009 at 8:44 pm jackson

    Portypete,

    Not only that, but girls feel comfortable getting WILD with gays on the dance floor. This often leaves them horny but unfulfilled.

    I’ve scored a few times that way, and my game isn’t very good.

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  184. on March 2, 2009 at 8:48 pm towson

    haha MPM, I look forward to it.

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  185. on March 2, 2009 at 8:48 pm tropical hot dog night

    “As has already been noted, Dave Alex is a prima facia example of just how *easy* it is for Men in particular to remove themselves from the mating game; all they have to do is sitdown.”

    I have forsworn masturbation during the Lent period. And I already feel better and stronger for having done so.

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  186. on March 2, 2009 at 8:59 pm dougjnn

    mistress. girl on the side. secret girl, or maybe not so secret.

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  187. on March 2, 2009 at 8:59 pm Welmer

    Wounded Animal

    Lift weights and study hard in a marketable field. If you have the time and money, take up a complex hobby.

    Man, that’s retarded advice for meeting women.

    When I was kid (about 20), I was messing around with this Finnish girl who was really hot. She lived in a room in a house near the university, and one of her roommates had a serious thing for her. He was 27, muscular from lifting weights, and dedicated to studying engineering.

    The hot, 19-year-old Finnish girl had no use for the guy. She thought he was a tool. He was prematurely balding and always had this shit-eating grin on his face.

    Instead of spending time with him, she messed around with a broke 20-year-old kid who had a couple other girlfriends at the time.

    She had very soft hair and flawless skin. I’ll never forget reclining with her on a futon behind a screen in a cheap flophouse in the U. District. What luxuries I never recognized that have come and gone. Have you ever wondered about the flowers in late spring? How perfect they are, and how quickly they fade? That is woman.

    Let those obeisant meat-puppets have their misplaced sense of purpose — they will never touch Nirvana. They don’t deserve it anyway, because they don’t even know what it is. For them, sex is an act of masturbation. This is really the definition of a beta: an Onanist.

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  188. on March 2, 2009 at 9:00 pm xsplat

    I have forsworn masturbation during the Lent period. And I already feel better and stronger for having done so.

    Don’t we need the sciences to study the important things in life? Does masturbation increase, or decrease, levels of testosterone.

    I know some men build up a charge when they abstain. And I know some men lose all charge when they abstain for long.

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  189. on March 2, 2009 at 9:02 pm David Alexander

    you may not be able to find that motivation until you get your testosterone levels checked

    Per my last check up, my testosterone levels were at normal levels.

    And might the whole creepy troll who enjoys being humiliated thing work for you as some sort of sex-submissive?

    I don’t even know anymore. Yeah, I like reading female dominant mind control stories, but they’re not in the “humiliation” sense, but in the fantasy sense of a woman who just takes charge and gets the handsome alpha-ish male that she wants. Mind you, I like reading male dominant mind control stories too.

    I liked being the outsider.

    I’ve been on periphery looking since the ripe young age of three, and after a while, you become used to it. I am the Savage of the Brave New World. I find your world intriguing, yet somehow horrifying at the same time.

    I have forsworn masturbation during the Lent period. And I already feel better and stronger for having done so.

    Somehow, I wish I did. I would have made it to work on time if I didn’t stay up all night and then decide to wank away for another hour and a half.

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  190. on March 2, 2009 at 9:04 pm Bhetti B

    …! I’m not that sort of person, nor by the grace of all the strength and hope I have, will I ever be. I’ve done some things I regret, I know where my limits are, so I should have enough strength to avoid that sort of scenario.

    Why do you suggest this?

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  191. on March 2, 2009 at 9:08 pm xsplat

    Ok, DA, you are horny nuff.

    I find your world intriguing, yet somehow horrifying at the same time.

    I think you need to find Jeebus. Find some group of people who agree to accept you into their fold, if you merely accept some bogus claims.

    Find some group who will love you unconditionally, as long as you meet a few of their conditions.

    Ok, maybe that’s not your flavor or self-lobotomy. But there must be other groups that shore up a sense of enjoyment of being part of a social group.

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  192. on March 2, 2009 at 9:15 pm xsplat

    I don’t even know anymore. Yeah, I like reading female dominant mind control stories, but they’re not in the “humiliation” sense, but in the fantasy sense of a woman who just takes charge and gets the handsome alpha-ish male that she wants. Mind you, I like reading male dominant mind control stories too.

    DA, you’ve said that normal girls don’t turn you on.

    Maybe you are a bit of a bungy jumper, and just don’t know it. Maybe you like edge, and just assume you can’t get it.

    Maybe S & M is your thing. You might be a switch.

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  193. on March 2, 2009 at 9:24 pm Game Schmame

    You guys are hilarious. Your “game” is only good to get laid, period. Or are you going to tell me this is all meant to find Mrs Right?

    I can hear it now…”Yeah son, I gamed your momma real good. She was cumming all over my schlong after I got her stupid, subconscious cunt all dripping wet. Nine months later you were born and we couldn’t have been any happier!”

    LOL

    And this “game” everyone is fawning over may increase those getting laid odds, the way all you are drooling on and on about it, probably not insignificantly. Say from 5% hit rate to 20%. The question then, begging to be asked is, what kind of pathetic fucks were all of you prior to your game-iversity education?

    As I said, you little punks are so funny. But hey, if a little extra snatch gets all of you so happy, who am I to rain on your little club here?

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  194. on March 2, 2009 at 9:33 pm dougjnn

    Bhetti B–

    “Why do you suggest this?”

    I asked you about it rather than necessarily suggesting it. I’d have to know more about you.

    Reason why is you seem to be vastly more attracted to alphas, to the point of preferring living alone than going monogomous with a beta. So to someone who thinks outside the box and always has, the question almost asked itself.

    “…! I’m not that sort of person, nor by the grace of all the strength and hope I have, will I ever be. I’ve done some things I regret, I know where my limits are, so I should have enough strength to avoid that sort of scenario.”

    Serious social programing busting out all over!!

    OK I get you really, really want to snag an alpha as your completely faithful full up gonna marry you guy, and not some just barely marginal alpha either, esp. on the physical sex appeal side — am I right miss Boop?

    But you know that’s a tall, tall order, esp. these days right? Lots of them aren’t marrying and those that are aren’t staying faithful — at all – except perhaps emotionally. You know that right?

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  195. on March 2, 2009 at 9:37 pm towson

    heh, I guess this game schmame (awesome name btw) guy missed the posts by the married man and how it has helped his relationship?

    Either way, game might be used by some just to get laid. Some may use it to find girlfriends, some may even use it to find a wife or even save their marriage.

    Me personally, I consider my game as part of my way of life and having fun. I go out to bars and act in the manner I do and I have a great night all the time. Don’t always get laid but that’s because it’s not my night’s mission though some nights that can be a goal. I don’t necessarily worry about closing, it’s fun sometimes just partying with the dudes. And shit if nothing happens at the bar, just go through the phone for some booty calls if I’m that desperately horny.

    Mission is to have fun when I go out and the gaming attitude always helps to ensure that.

    Game also works in public in a non-party atmosphere. See a girl at the gym? use some game, grab a number, maybe some fun in the future. see a girl at the bookstore? use some game, grab a number, maybe some fun in the future… Etc…

    Anyways, wait, what the fuck was the point of your post again?

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  196. on March 2, 2009 at 9:51 pm Gunslingergregi

    And on cue Game Schmame comes down the stairs to yell about whats going on at the club. This is getting wierd.

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  197. on March 2, 2009 at 9:53 pm Chuck

    Game Schmame:

    Just because you were one of the losers from the post, don’t get all ass-hurt over it.

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  198. on March 2, 2009 at 9:53 pm Johnny_Marks

    After today’s multi-posts from TokyoDouche, can you please ban him?

    I wouldn’t mind if he phrased his comments with sincere skepticism, in which case, the responses of DFH, PA, Seeking Alpha, and yourself (among others) could help those of us still learning/mastering game.

    But all he’s doing is being a dick anymore, and that’s helping no one.

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  199. on March 2, 2009 at 9:54 pm Steve Johnson

    seeking_alpha-

    If you want to go for a man up sport I’d recommend bjj over boxing.

    I’ve done both and here’s how they stack up:

    workout quality: about the same; boxing is probably a bit better but it depends on the bjj class / boxing gym. Some bjj schools do tons of hardcore wrestling workouts.

    competition: bjj gives you better and quicker feedback. You spar from your first class and you can spar daily if you want. Boxing it’ll take some training before you can get in the ring and you can’t spar that often because getting punched is hard on the body.

    outside world usefulness: I give this one to bjj; boxing without gloves tends to lead to broken hands.

    wear and tear on your body: no contest. Getting punched in the head and ribs sucks. Getting submitted sucks but when you tap, that’s it.

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  200. on March 2, 2009 at 9:55 pm dougjnn

    The G Manifesto–

    “If I wrote off girls for simply the dumb stuff they say, I wouldn’t swoop 100+ fly girls per year.”

    You know G that’s just whack. Ok, I’ve gone over 20 in a year but not year after year and in fact only anything like that a few. But I’m not sayin I’m the touchstone of all that’s right. I’m sayin that I’ve sometimes gone that way, not at your purported level, but even at mine, I didn’t want to keep that up. At all.

    And I think it’s some kind of addiction or sickness for anyone to.

    Now don’t get me wrong. It’s TREMENDOUS for a man, just hugely liberating sexual politics wise, beyond all the shear joy of it, to be ABLE to do like that. And I’ll freely admit that your innuendo and hints and stories and now this 100+ a year, year after year, are way beyond where my natural and added to not much, only very quasi sorta learned game was able to take me. (And yes I had a feminist mother and feminist supporting father and other things badly programing my significantly rebellious views on these subjects.)

    So I’ll say that while it would be my highest priority to go from where I’ve been to where you claim to be in those skills and abilities, I’d like them.

    But I sure wouldn’t want to exercise them like that, 100+, year after year. What a waste of time and energy. What a, well, perversion.

    Mix and match. LTRs bolstered by knowing it’s easy to play and or re-up. Way better.

    AND — there are other things in life too.

    Actually that post is one of the ones that most make me think you are significantly a fraud. I just don’t see a real guy wanting to keep doing that at that level, after proving to himself he can. (Not saying totally a fraud necessarily. Hugely exaggerated more like. A projection of what you think you want and have made a few strides in getting to.)

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  201. on March 2, 2009 at 9:57 pm dougjnn

    Should be:

    “So I’ll say that while it WOULDN’T be my highest priority to go from where I’ve been to where you claim to be in those skills and abilities, I’d like them.”

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  202. on March 2, 2009 at 10:11 pm xsplat

    Actually that post is one of the ones that most make me think you are significantly a fraud. I just don’t see a real guy wanting to keep doing that at that level, after proving to himself he can.

    Yes.

    Men tend to alternate between monogamy and non-monogamy.

    LikeLike


  203. on March 2, 2009 at 10:11 pm dougjnn

    Steve Johnson —

    No. Don’t ban anyone who isn’t a volume spamming troll.

    Instead ignore or attack him / her if bad enough.

    Personally I don’t think Tokyo’s that bad. Completely wrong about everything except that hot big breasted 15yo Japanese girl who looks at least 19 (I know, a freak of nature, but they exist, in some volume) he linked a few posts ago, I’ll grant. Pretty much.

    Basically a stubborn obnoxious beta in need of education. Think is, in his current environment, Tokyo, he might actually be an alpha of sorts. Some kind of lesser alpha, possible.

    I have heard from multiple sources that white guys that have anything going on can have everything going on in Tokyo, and how.

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  204. on March 2, 2009 at 10:18 pm xsplat

    Basically a stubborn obnoxious beta in need of education.

    Basically a stubborn obnoxious beta incapable of education.

    True believers can not be redemed by faith in reality. They are unholy.

    LikeLike


  205. on March 2, 2009 at 10:24 pm Steve Johnson

    dougjnn,

    You meant to address that to Johnny Marks.

    The only person I think should be banned is DA.

    LikeLike


  206. on March 2, 2009 at 10:29 pm Eurosabra

    It was utterly demoralizing to read about how two guys who were green-lighted by hot Russians (a rare thing, given that one has to communicate dominance AND $, usually) utterly ruined it by talking about things that interested THEM rather than things that interested the women, or being/doing what the women wanted.

    Those of us who feel ungifted by nature and feel the Slavic eyes flick over us and continue onwards in an unbroken search for Ivan the Terrible might want to have a word (a few words, really) with those guys. Preferably in the alley behind Russia House.

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  207. on March 2, 2009 at 10:34 pm Wounded Animal

    Welmer: Man, that’s retarded advice for meeting women.

    Okay. Then be a flabby English major who uses clumsy metaphors and can’t afford a real bed. And buy some good sturdy shoes, because waiters at The Olive Garden are typically on their feet for the entire shift.

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  208. on March 2, 2009 at 10:40 pm The G Manifesto

    dougjnn

    One thing you must understand, is I go out a lot at night. Typically 3 to five nights a week (or more).

    Keep in mind some of those nights I swoop 2+ girls.

    If you go out as much as I do, and have the social network I have, 100+ girls a year is pretty standard.

    “And I think it’s some kind of addiction or sickness for anyone to.”

    Possibly. But I have had other “addictions” as well, and this one (swooping mad girls) has only brought me joy.

    “Now don’t get me wrong. It’s TREMENDOUS for a man, just hugely liberating sexual politics wise, beyond all the shear joy of it, to be ABLE to do like that.”

    Again, if you put it in perspective, like I did above, it is not really that big a deal.

    “What a waste of time and energy. What a, well, perversion.”

    Compared to what? Painting beautiful paintings? Maybe, but I can’t paint (although when I was younger I could graffiti write with decent skill level).

    “Mix and match. LTRs bolstered by knowing it’s easy to play and or re-up. Way better.”

    I don’t understand this?

    “AND — there are other things in life too.”

    Of course, making CASH, dressing sharp, traveling, drinking wine, smoking cigarettes, swooping girls…oh wait.

    “Actually that post is one of the ones that most make me think you are significantly a fraud.” I just don’t see a real guy wanting to keep doing that at that level, after proving to himself he can.”

    I wouldn’t call myself a normal guy.

    Most guys don’t want to score 45 points in an NBA game.

    But Michael Jordan did.

    – MPM

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  209. on March 2, 2009 at 11:14 pm David Alexander

    But there must be other groups that shore up a sense of enjoyment of being part of a social group.

    See friends from railfanning…

    Maybe you are a bit of a bungy jumper, and just don’t know it. Maybe you like edge, and just assume you can’t get it.

    I’m rather ultra risk adverse (i.e no roller coasters) except for my speeding habit. If there weren’t cops, I’d probably drive at 15 to 25 mph over the speed limit.

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  210. on March 3, 2009 at 12:33 am GVChamp

    Give him a break, man! Well, I certainly wouldn’t mind a break. I’ve spent so many years getting rejected by women that I’m only now getting anything close to progress.

    It’s like asking a kid to ace the MCATs when he’s been failing remedial algebra for the past 10 years.

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  211. on March 3, 2009 at 12:37 am Steve Johnson

    “I’m rather ultra risk adverse (i.e no roller coasters) except for my speeding habit. If there weren’t cops, I’d probably drive at 15 to 25 mph over the speed limit.”

    Dude, thanks. I got a nice laugh out of this one.

    Because there are cops I stick to 25-35 over at max these days.

    You really need to seize something out of life man. It’s a banquet and you’re starving to death.

    LikeLike


  212. on March 3, 2009 at 1:15 am Tupac Chopra

    DF:

    Seeking Alpha, ‘birthdays’ are known by different names, some call them squat thrusts and there are different ways to do them. Basically, its a squat thrust with a push-up followed by a jump.

    AKA “Burpees” is what they call them at my gym.

    David Alexander:

    Per my last check up, my testosterone levels were at normal levels.

    “Normal”, according to the medical establishment is anywhere from 250ng to 1100ng. That’s a hell of a spread. Fact is, someone with 250 is not experiencing vitality in the same way someone with 1100 is. If you are under 500 I would advise seeking out TRT.

    When I juiced briefly, my libido shot up so freaking high that I was willing to bang just about anything. Just the sight of a chick’s ass — even if she was overweight — was enough to get me sprung. I think if you had a healthy libido, you wouldn’t be as exacting with your requirements for what turns you on.

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  213. on March 3, 2009 at 1:22 am Gordon K

    Wrong, wrong, wrong!

    Game is precisely about “being yourself”!

    What are you doing when you are trying to win the approval of a girl? You are distorting aspects of your personality in order to appear pleasing.

    Game shows you all the small and large ways in which you are not being true to yourself in order to be liked by girls, explains that paradoxically, this turns girls off, and helps you find the way back to your true center of gravity.

    “Being yourself” does not mean obeying every single impulse you have – sometimes your impulses may be telling you to NOT be true to yourself – it means refusing to fake yourself to be liked by other people.

    What does refusing to act in order to be liked by others, refusing to supplicate, MEAN if not “be yourself”?

    A man with a high level of self-esteem and self-respect will have natural, instinctive game, precisely because he is not afraid to be himself and is willing to risk disapproval and dislike by behaving naturally.

    In a sense Game is almost like an extension of the self-esteem movement, just for men, and carefully spelling out its implications in the realm of romance.

    Take a man with a naturally high level of self-esteem, with great self-respect, and take a man who has studied Game, and they will behave more or less the same with girls. Game is really just another word for the importance of having self-respect when dealing with girls.

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  214. on March 3, 2009 at 1:34 am RF Interference

    Speaking of Russain women, my buddy who is far from the ladies man snagged himself a former exchange student he went to college with. Was out in St. Pete last week to close the deal, now they’re just waiting however many months (years) on immigration.

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  215. on March 3, 2009 at 1:36 am Cannon's Canon

    Steve Johnson:
    “Boxing it’ll take some training before you can get in the ring and you can’t spar that often because getting punched is hard on the body.”

    False on both counts. Footwork, hand positioning, and a simple left-right-left are all you need to jump in the ring by the end of your first practice. Also, serious amateurs and pros alike spar as often as possible, definitely every trip to the gym. What you’re missing is the concept of “light” sparring to hone technique and pace. Maybe set some ground rules like 3 or 5 punch combo maxes, no uppercuts, whatever. Boxers aren’t trying to knock out their sparring partners, necessarily.

    “outside world usefulness: I give this one to bjj; boxing without gloves tends to lead to broken hands.”

    people who “box without gloves” typically aren’t boxers. most fights only last a few punches. if you can feign or even absorb a punch, you have a tremendous advantage playing the percentages. knowing how to throw your punch can also prove to be the showstopper.

    added aesthetic: boxing still has more cred with the masses. girls don’t get wet for sensei. ask a few for confirmation.

    don’t get me wrong; the biggest badass i know used to bounce at neptunes and got his workouts on at the dojo (he was also juiced out of his mind of course). i just don’t think you should write off a sport that you don’t seem to have any experience with.

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  216. on March 3, 2009 at 2:14 am Welmer

    Wounded Animal

    Okay. Then be a flabby English major who uses clumsy metaphors and can’t afford a real bed. And buy some good sturdy shoes, because waiters at The Olive Garden are typically on their feet for the entire shift.

    Heh, nice advice, but I could never get a job in food service, despite the fact that I’m a very good cook and can hardly stand the slop American women serve up. I’ve only ever worked in carpentry, trucking and publishing (they are surprisingly complementary).

    One of my biggest weaknesses is that I get so frustrated by how badly American women cook that I tell them to step away from the stove and let me deal with it. I got this from my grandpa, who took care of himself during the depression. He cooked his food, cleaned his clothes and kept his tools sharp. The old Irishman had four kids, then kept getting some from various girlfriends into his mid 80s, and when he finally lost his virility he gave up the ghost. Bless the old man’s soul. The time is coming to take my son to his grave to venerate his ancestor and pour a generous libation of Uisce Beatha (I have absorbed some Confucian sensibility due to time in China, and it melds well with Catholicism anyway). There is really nothing more touching than a little boy showing his respect to the men who struggled to make his existence possible.

    But back to the point, animal, your advice is awful. This isn’t 1952. Chumps who take your advice will just get tossed by the wayside and become permanent wage slaves for their parasitic first wives.

    Just out of curiosity, what would you do if you caught your wife/girlfriend whoring around? Would you use game to win her back?

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  217. on March 3, 2009 at 2:14 am Da_Truth_Hurts

    If you are not close to vomiting when running or lifting, you are not pushing yourself as hard as you can. Boxing is great condition, fantastic in fact.

    So are kettlebell complexes. So is MMA grappling. I’ve gotten some of my soldiers to vomit during PT using 15lb weights in each hand. My personal favorite is heavy deadlifting, and doing pull ups or pushups during the rest break.

    It is intensity and drive that improves your physical and mental conditioning in any type of workout or combative endeavor. You have to give everything you can to see the truest results. You still won’t be elite unless you started young and/or have amazing genetics.

    But you’ll be head and shoulders above 95% of the populace. You’ll look good, feel good, and project a healthy comfortable vibe.

    The carryover to game is indirect. Yes, being physically fit helps with initial indicators of interest. But the fact that you feel good and know you can push to improve yourself enhances confidence.

    Your body is designed to move. Make sure you take care of it. Sure as fuck don’t smoke or associate with anyone that does have such negative habits for any length of time other than to pump and dump. The people you choose to hang with has great consequences (good & bad) on your life.

    Oh, and Tokyo – you are a woman or a fucking homo. You argue with emotion. Go choke on a dick.

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  218. on March 3, 2009 at 2:26 am Vladimir

    The G Manifesto:

    Of course, making CASH, dressing sharp, traveling, drinking wine, smoking cigarettes, swooping girls…oh wait.

    You forgot the seven hours a day that you apparently spend posting blog comments. I guess that’s the most exciting part of the international playboy lifestyle.

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  219. on March 3, 2009 at 2:47 am Chuck

    So we have the guy from T-Nation arguing against smoking and those associated and we have G arguing that smoking will help your game. As a guy who works out but doesn’t smoke I’m siding with G if I have to make a choice. Ditching smokers limits your options whereas cutting out uptight douches who work out all day and check out their abs and pecs in the mirror doesn’t sound so bad.

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  220. on March 3, 2009 at 2:58 am Vladimir

    Steve Johnson:

    The only person I think should be banned is DA.

    DA has been a part of the unique charm of this blog ever since I’ve been reading it. He might be irritating with his obstinacy when you fall into the trap of trying to give him advice, but he’s actually a good writer, he says something original and interesting from time to time, and he’s generally polite, rational, and honest. Together with his unusual life perspective, that easily puts him among the top few most interesting posters here.

    That said, the average quality of comments on this blog has definitely fallen recently. Some excellent comments can still be found in almost any thread, but they’re getting drowned out by a flood of lame and pointless posts. It’s becoming more and more tedious to dredge through all the trolling and endless off-topic pointless rambling for which certain posters, now regular and prolific, have specialized.

    It also discourages people who have something interesting to say. I used to find it worthwhile to write long posts here, because they would always elicit some interesting comments and discussion. Nowadays, however, I have the feeling like whatever I write will just sink unnoticed among hundreds of pointless and uninteresting posts.

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  221. on March 3, 2009 at 3:35 am xsplat

    You forgot the seven hours a day that you apparently spend posting blog comments. I guess that’s the most exciting part of the international playboy lifestyle.</blockquote?

    Yeah, Vladmir is back!

    I don’t care about your life or actions. If your name is Vladmir, you rule.

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  222. on March 3, 2009 at 3:38 am whiskey

    How many women smoke? Many but not all.

    How many women do NOT smoke? Some.

    If you dont’ suffer any penalty for not smoking, the numbers game is to not smoke, since it lets you get both smoker and non-smoker women.

    Also, I must say this again, play music. Even if it’s just a crummy local band playing cover tunes, you would not believe how much that gets you over.

    Any man with a son should pay for music lessons and tell him it gets girls. Even ugly unknown dudes work this. Plus, it lets you perform on stage, nearly as good as acting, open up the performance.

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  223. on March 3, 2009 at 3:46 am David Alexander

    Because there are cops I stick to 25-35 over at max these days.

    My speed preferences are primarily based on my driving skills, the car I’m driving (ten year old Saturn sedan), and traffic levels. If I was driving something a bit better and nicer, without cops, it’s very likely that I would drive even faster.

    Being risk adverse is a great way to stay alive, healthy, and out of trouble.

    I think if you had a healthy libido, you wouldn’t be as exacting with your requirements for what turns you on.

    Dude, I’m not juicing. That shit isn’t free, and I’d prefer to avoid fucking around with stuff like that lest it have any long-term effects.

    That said, the average quality of comments on this blog has definitely fallen recently.

    Have blogs jumped the shark? Has the poor economy turned us into closeted attention whores looking to palliate our troubles with the diarrhea of the mouth? Or have we, including myself, have nothing new to say or point out?

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  224. on March 3, 2009 at 3:51 am RF Interference

    “Nah, if she’s wearing sports gear in a casual setting, then that makes for a good opener, especially if you can put down her team.”

    I tried opening a girl wearing a Celtic scarf by singing “We Will Follow Rangers,” which failed, but I’m an ass and thought it was hillarious nonetheless. Followed that up by offering to buy her a black-and-tan. 😛

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  225. on March 3, 2009 at 4:06 am David Alexander

    Just the sight of a chick’s ass — even if she was overweight — was enough to get me sprung.

    So that’s how alpha males can bang ugly women that betas feel awful about touching. Of course, I may prattle on about the stuff I need to feel aroused, but then something has to explain why the thought of banging a few girls at work didn’t seem as comical even with 8 hours of sleep.

    Game is precisely about “being yourself”!

    In other words, being yourself is not being a loser nice guy who worships the ground we walk on, but exposing those “faults” like aggressiveness or saying no?

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  226. on March 3, 2009 at 4:12 am xsplat

    But you’ll be head and shoulders above 95% of the populace. You’ll look good, feel good, and project a healthy comfortable vibe.

    Another good workout is to be hungover. Similar cell death.

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  227. on March 3, 2009 at 4:20 am tokyojesusfist

    Obsidian

    From this I conclude a number of things, that have already been indicated, but the main point is that while Tokyo is long on declarations and hypothesis, he’s woefully short on actual theory and evidence based on his own researches-and since he fancies himself a rational thinker, he would agree, I hope, that his “theories”, in order to be valid, should be able to be replicated, out in the field. If not, they are untimately, worthless.

    I’m not a PUA, so how does any of this apply to me? There are no theories to be researched, there are no field tests to be conducted.

    Now, I can respect Tokyo’s position wrt Game, that’s fine. But if he’s going to assert that there’s a “superior” way to accomplish a more serious relationship, then I would think at some point, he has to actually demonstrate his ideas to work in the realworld.

    How many times have I told you that there is no method, technique or routine? And what makes you think that I’m going to get into a relationship with a person I don’t care about just so I can prove to the Intertubes that my “ideas” work? Are women just inanimate objects to you, things that can be used for whatever purpose, and then discarded when they are no longer useful?

    Two Men in this forum, who are actively engaged in as commited a relationship as it can get-marriage-have gone on the record repeatedly, and in detail, that elements of Game have demonstrably improved their marriages.

    PUAs are notoriously delusional, so I wouldn’t put much stock into such claims.

    If anything, indeed, its WOMEN who are “forced” to play the Game, for this reason-if they are even marginally attractive, they stand a high chance of being approached by at least a dozen Men a month (and it is not unusual for a very attractive Woman to be approached by hundreds of Men in a month).

    I don’t see why this would force women to play the game.

    Dave from Hawaii

    Than I read up on ‘game’ and it was like the light bulb went off in my head. I could look back on so many arguments and fights I had with her and recognize that most of them stemmed from me failing a shit test

    Your problem wasn’t a lack of game, your problem was being married to a woman who feels the need to “shit test” people.

    jackson

    I don’t listen to tokyojesusfist anymore after he gave this as an example of a “10”

    Draw your own conclusions.

    Is this blog being invaded by Stormfront?

    towson

    I’m not getting into martial arts. Not yet at least. Only had the desire to start boxing and that’s definitely all I’m starting with.

    Boxing is a martial art.

    CN

    As someone who loves using the n-word, you should take a trip over stormfront as well.

    Where have I ever used the word in a serious manner not intended to mock someone or some idea?

    Johnny_Marks

    After today’s multi-posts from TokyoDouche, can you please ban him?

    But all he’s doing is being a dick anymore, and that’s helping no one.

    In that case, there’s no end to the number of people who should be banned from here. Where do we start?

    Da_Truth_Hurts

    Oh, and Tokyo – you are a woman or a fucking homo. You argue with emotion. Go choke on a dick.

    Ironically enough, this right here is an emotional argument.

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  228. on March 3, 2009 at 4:23 am xsplat

    Or have we, including myself, have nothing new to say or point out?

    When in doubt of having any inspiration, look to sex or drugs or fast vehicles.

    Vodka has never let me down. i say stupid shit when drunk, but there is usually some kernel in it that i can re-write, the next time I get the opportunity to be embarassased at myself.

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  229. on March 3, 2009 at 4:32 am xsplat

    If you dont’ suffer any penalty for not smoking, the numbers game is to not smoke, since it lets you get both smoker and non-smoker women.

    Create the frame.

    Smoking is just a frame.

    It’s meaningless.

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  230. on March 3, 2009 at 4:43 am xsplat

    Okay. Then be a flabby English major who uses clumsy metaphors and can’t afford a real bed. And buy some good sturdy shoes, because waiters at The Olive Garden are typically on their feet for the entire shift.

    If you had a vagina, I’d be sucking your dick for that one. Umm. Something like that. Kudos upside your head.

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  231. on March 3, 2009 at 5:41 am joel

    If I understand him, the simple truth is this:

    A man picking up a girl is no different than if he were a performer in a small club. Imagine you are the customer in that club. You are watching a stand up comic. You have spent money and time to come to this club. You want to be entertained. You want the comic to be confident, witty, and funny, and to engage with the audience and make everybody laugh. You want the performance to be fluid and spontaneous. You want the comic to succeed. You want him to “seduce” you.

    But, if the comic is bad, you will likely not mind if he is booed off the stage. You will show him no mercy yourself.

    So guys, ready for the challenge?

    I think the best advice ever given was “Just do it!”

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  232. on March 3, 2009 at 7:10 am johnny five

    we should ban tjf.

    …if only to indemnify the august commenters of this blog from any and all legal responsibility once he turns 15 and decides to shoot up his school.

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  233. on March 3, 2009 at 7:13 am Obsidian

    Tokyo,
    You have not answered my questions; I will restate them for you.

    1. Are you now or have ever been married, and if so, for how long?

    2. Are you no or have ever been in a longterm relationship, and if so, for how long?

    Please note that neither question has anything at all to do with Game or PUAs in the least, since you have been adamant in your stance against both, which again, is perfectly fine by me.

    What I am attempting to suss out is whether you have any actual realworld experience that is comparable to two Men in particular in this forum-DFH & PA, both of whom are married, and thus would fall under your definition of b eing involved in a serious relationship. If I have misunderstood your words you will kindly correct me.

    You appear to be of the view that there is no “way” to attract people, and to that I would respectfully disagree; history is rife with such examples. The Kama Sutra, for example and which I have cited several times here, has entire chapters on just this subject, how to attract Women. And that’s a book that’s older than Christ himself.

    Now, you may disagree with it or any of the legion of works since that takes up the subject,g but to make the assertion that there is no “formula” in these areas is just not so. And if anything reveals a bit of your own ignorance in these areas.

    Your pointed and direct answers to my questions would be…?

    The Obsidian

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  234. on March 3, 2009 at 7:30 am tokyojesusfist

    johnny five

    we should ban tjf.

    You should stop whining and learn to deal with the fact that not everyone on the Internet is going to agree with you.

    …if only to indemnify the august commenters of this blog from any and all legal responsibility once he turns 15 and decides to shoot up his school.

    How could I turn fifteen when I’m already in my mid-twenties? Use your brain, if you have one.

    Obsidian

    You have not answered my questions; I will restate them for you.

    1. Are you now or have ever been married, and if so, for how long?

    2. Are you no or have ever been in a longterm relationship, and if so, for how long?

    These questions are irrelevant.

    What I am attempting to suss out is whether you have any actual realworld experience that is comparable to two Men in particular in this forum-DFH & PA, both of whom are married, and thus would fall under your definition of b eing involved in a serious relationship. If I have misunderstood your words you will kindly correct me.

    What difference does experience make?

    You appear to be of the view that there is no “way” to attract people, and to that I would respectfully disagree; history is rife with such examples.

    No, I am of the view that game is horrible for serious long-term relationships.

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  235. on March 3, 2009 at 7:35 am Cannon's Canon

    I gotta recommend this flick “Sex Drive.” The first 10-15 minutes are the best if you don’t wanna do the whole thing. The premise is a dorky beta is trying to get laid with the help of his Jack Osborne-looking friend who stays in some pussy the whole movie because of his tight game. It employs the usual cheap laughs of all coming-of-age comedies, but this movie really hits on the female attraction dynamic better than anything I can remember seeing recently.

    http://www.freestreamtube.com/v/2c6036c38beab0370a76d20ad81cc065.html

    Of course, it takes the typical Hollywood Beta turn, but it still maintains some grasp of reality. The girl who falls for the beta at the end waits for him to say “i love you” and he hits her with “you love me” because he has learned some inner game. Not much, but some.

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  236. on March 3, 2009 at 7:40 am Obsidian

    Getting back to the actual subject, I am glad that he posted this topic and his eyewitness account of the two Men and their failed bid in trying to pickup two ladies at the club. There’s little I can add to his words on that score, so I say, bravo.
    But what I will add, if I may, is that, as he’s noted, that I have noticed that some of Game’s biggest detractors aren’t Women, even Feminists, strangely enough; its other Men.

    Whether one classifies them as “Beta” or not, the fact remains that other Men seem to have a serious bone to pick with Game in general and PUAs in particular, and it’s more than a mere dislike, but coming much closer to an out and out hatred. The passion with which some of these Men argue their positions, which in many ways, distorts any legitimate merits they may, is truly something to behold. Its as if they’re fighting for the very soul of Humanity or something. Something bordering on the fanatical.

    I have watched in what can only be described as a macabre mixture of amusement and horror as a number of Men come into this forum with the apparent express purpose of disrupting the conversations taking place, first by denigrating the host, then by denigrating the members, and all the while attempting to advance “anti-Game” arguments in the most weakest of terms; when directly questioned if they have read any of the seminal literature on the topic, they either evade or attempt to change the subject; when pressed for an alternative soultion, they give vague answers akin to something “Jesus Freaks” would utter, and so on. Even when granting them their right to disagree, that doesn’t seem enough for them; they disapprove of Game’s, and by extension the PUA’s, very existence. It vexes them in ways they don’t seem able to articulate in a coherent way.

    I fail to see what is to be gained by going to a forum devoted to a particular end and simply trashing the place because you are odds fundamentally with said purpose of said venue. Its one thing to make a principled argument, or series of arguments, against Game/PUAs, but to date, I have not heard one credible such argument.

    The only person to date that I am aware of, who does come close is our own Whiskey, whose prolific postings here and on his own blog are to be commended. In comparison to the “Anti-Gamers” afore-mentioned, he truly is the voice of reason.

    And yet, evn he cannot answer direct questions put to him, based on what he’s writtn by his own hand.

    For example, when he extolls the virtues of the 1950s, I point out to him in vivid detail, that life was far from perfect or even equal, in so many ways; that aside, it was also a time of massive repression of individual tastes, desires and drives, and noted that not only was Porn in the modern sense of the word was born in the 50s with Playboy magazine, but that the BDSM culture was ascendant as well-pin-up model Bettie Page was more known for his private bondage shoots than her more public work, and the book, The Story of O was published in France in 1954. Moreover, no matter what any of us may think of her or the movement she had a direct hand in birthing, Betty Friedan’s The Feminine Mystique was born of her frustrations as a suburband housewife of the 1950s. All was not well in Ozzie & Harriet Land.

    To all this, Whiskey says nothing.

    He also says nothing when I directly ask him, exactly what measures are to be taken to make Women “behave”? On this score, he has been quite upfront-we must bring back vestiges of the Scarlet Letter, shaming vehemently and swiftly, any Woman who gets out of line; since Women are very sensitive to social situations/dynamics, this is a most effective tool in restoring balance to the Force. Now, agree or disagree w/him, at least he offers up one potential solution.

    Whiskey on the other hand, does not; what he does is describe the current scene, tells us about things in a historical context, and leaves us all hanging, w/all dues respect. He has alluded to some of what he has said, but not outright. And in any evnt, since a good number of these issues are imbued by the power of the State, it will take State intervention for some of what he sees as problems to be straightened out. In any event, what it all amounts to, is a restriction, very real ones, on what Women may and may not do sexually.

    That comes very close to what guys like the Taliban do, sans the burkas and stonings.
    I am still waiting for Whiskey’s detailed response to these and other points I have raised counter to his positions on the issues.

    Still in all, I commend Whiskey for at least showing that it is possible to have a reasoned, principled “anti-Game” position.

    If only the other guys would get on board…

    The Obsidian

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  237. on March 3, 2009 at 7:45 am towson

    “No, I am of the view that game is horrible for serious long-term relationships.”

    How can this be true when we have these long term serious relationships cited that have used game in some form to keep their relationships afloat? Not to mention in my experience of a two year relationship, I had starting hooking up with the girl at one point, was a completely beta through the two weeks, she broke it off. Not until I was acting in the manner of game did we begin to actually hit it off and the relationship continued for that duration.

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  238. on March 3, 2009 at 8:00 am Obsidian

    Tokyo,
    Your evasions, and outright refusal to answer my pointed questions to you, based on your own arguments, are prima facia of the self sealing arguments you engage in.

    You assail others regardless of their experience or knowledge base, but refuse anyone to examine yours (or the lack thereof). You say that Game is horrible for longterm relationships, but when given evidence/testimony to the contrary you disregard on your “say so”. How rational is that?

    Let’s be clear: I have absolutely no problem in the least with your stating your OPINION that Game is thus and so, that’s fine. But that’s all it is-an opinion. And not a very well informed one at that.

    If I were sitting out in the audience, and listening t a debate with you on one side, and DFH or PA on the other, I would at the very least be inclined to listen to what either of those two Men had to say, even if I disagreed with them on some points. At the end of the day, its hard to argue against realworld results.

    At least it is, for adults.

    The Obsidian

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  239. on March 3, 2009 at 8:01 am dougjnn

    Dave from Hawaii–

    Your story is very interesting. I’ve read you mentioning it before when back blogging, but figured you wouldn’t see any attempt I made back there to talk to you about it.

    I’m more than a little surprised it worked in an ongoing relationship that had been turning south betatude wise for awhile. Not sure why exactly. Their opinion on such things can certainly go down. Somehow the dynamic of it going way up seems harder — though certainly flirting w/other hot (or hotter) women certainly has a (good) effect if done right.

    Did she know you were learning game when you were in the early stages of it — or only after — or still not? Did you just read up or do a workshop? Did you go through a period of practicing picking up women other than your wife to hone/field test your skills?

    Anyway, I’d love you to tell more along these lines.

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  240. on March 3, 2009 at 8:27 am dougjnn

    Vladamir–

    “You forgot the seven hours a day that you apparently spend posting blog comments. I guess that’s the most exciting part of the international playboy lifestyle.”

    If it wasn’t so tired I’d go ROTFLMAO. Oh f*ck it. Consider it issued.

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  241. on March 3, 2009 at 8:31 am tokyojesusfist

    Obsidian

    The passion with which some of these Men argue their positions, which in many ways, distorts any legitimate merits they may, is truly something to behold. Its as if they’re fighting for the very soul of Humanity or something. Something bordering on the fanatical.

    I’m afraid nothing can top the level of fanaticism required to claim that game is some kind of natural law that nobody can escape.

    towson

    How can this be true when we have these long term serious relationships cited that have used game in some form to keep their relationships afloat?

    I’ve already responded to this.

    Obsidian

    Your evasions, and outright refusal to answer my pointed questions to you, based on your own arguments, are prima facia of the self sealing arguments you engage in.

    I’m not evading, I’m just well aware of your attempts to change the subject.

    You say that Game is horrible for longterm relationships, but when given evidence/testimony to the contrary you disregard on your “say so”. How rational is that?

    Someone said that game helped him pass his wife’s shit tests, but he didn’t realize that the whole problem with his marriage was that he’s married to someone who conducts shit tests. Doesn’t exactly prove that game works.

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  242. on March 3, 2009 at 8:45 am Obsidian

    And you’ve been with Women who conduct no shit tests, Tokyo? Are you with one of them now? And for how long?

    O

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  243. on March 3, 2009 at 8:51 am tokyojesusfist

    There’s no reason to be with a woman who conducts shit tests.

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  244. on March 3, 2009 at 9:00 am Seeking Alpha

    I know you’re going to accuse me of ‘changing the subject’ but do you have any experience with women. You claim to know that there are women who don’t conduct shit tests and who aren’t subject to the laws of the female psyche. Do you have any experience with these women or are you just confident that somewhere, they exist?

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  245. on March 3, 2009 at 9:05 am Bwahaha

    Anime and video game characters do not conduct shit tests.

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  246. on March 3, 2009 at 9:16 am Obsidian

    You still have not answered my question, Tokyo: are with a Woman, right now, who does not conduct shit tests? And if so, for how long?

    O

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  247. on March 3, 2009 at 9:17 am Wounded Animal

    Just out of curiosity, what would you do if you caught your wife/girlfriend whoring around? Would you use game to win her back?

    Nope. Waste of time and energy. The bitch is fired.

    Here is a point you seem to be overlooking: men judge women by looks; women judge men by status. To get status, a man needs marketable skills and physical presence. You get those things by working out and studying hard from age 16-22 +/-. Now if you want, you can spend that time playing the bohemian schtick and banging similarly naive females but when the student aid runs out or mom and dad kick you out of the basement, you will need a job to put cash in your pocket, some nice clothes on your back, and a decent crib to take women home to. Clueless 19-yo’s don’t mind screwing on futons without sheets; 20-somethings in the 7+ range who are sizing a man up for his genetics do.

    This ain’t the 1960’s, ya clueless hippie.

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  248. on March 3, 2009 at 9:21 am Neko

    Well at least the two guys tried to pick them up, instead of looking on from the sidelines without any guts, only to later blog about it.

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  249. on March 3, 2009 at 9:24 am tokyojesusfist

    Seeking Alpha

    I know you’re going to accuse me of ‘changing the subject’ but do you have any experience with women. You claim to know that there are women who don’t conduct shit tests and who aren’t subject to the laws of the female psyche. Do you have any experience with these women or are you just confident that somewhere, they exist?

    Of course there are women who don’t do shit tests.

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  250. on March 3, 2009 at 9:26 am Rum

    Re: Freidan and the 50s.
    The back story was that in the 1950s for the first time in history it became possible for a lot of women to work outside the home, earn enough to support herself and a kid or two, and find the neccesities of ordinary life in a nearby store. At that precise moment, women began to feel oppressed and to see the safety of marriage as an intolerable insult.
    In many circumstances it has been possible for unemcumbered single women to support themselves. However, this was a nightmare threat to the stay at home matriarchs and so they did everything possible to desexualize younger, hotter women than themselves. Until the 50s.

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  251. on March 3, 2009 at 9:29 am Seeking Alpha

    TJF – So you admit that you have no actually experience, right? Just your own opinions on the subject without any actual real world experience to back them up? What sort of rational person is fanatical about something he has no experience with? You may claim we are all fanatical- I disagree, but that’s your opinion – but at least our opinions are based in experience.

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  252. on March 3, 2009 at 9:36 am tokyojesusfist

    This is not a matter of opinion or experience.

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  253. on March 3, 2009 at 9:41 am Seeking Alpha

    Then it’s a matter of….

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  254. on March 3, 2009 at 9:42 am PA

    TJF is not reached by good-faith arguments and makes increasingly-inane evasions when asked direct questions.

    He is either a developmentally retarded male or a troll.

    For the sake of quality threads, I would encourage all to ignore him.

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  255. on March 3, 2009 at 9:44 am towson

    This guy’s incorrigible!

    I second PA’s post, there’s no hope for intellectual debate with this guy.

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  256. on March 3, 2009 at 9:46 am tokyojesusfist

    I’m a developmentally retarded male or a troll for stating the fact that not all women conduct shit tests? Hmm, ok.

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  257. on March 3, 2009 at 9:50 am Kthulah

    Tokyo says, “Of course there are women who don’t do shit tests.”

    Sure, and they’re in a coma or vegetative state.

    Tokyo, we all care about the kind of person we’re with. Each of us has different priorities, but regardless, none of us enjoys wasting our time with a guy who isn’t going to give us what we need.

    So we all go shit tests…some more above the table than others.

    I personally lay my cards on the table. It’s still a shit test, albeit a good one. It filters out the guys who want a woman who needs a Womanian translator as well as those looking for drama, a mommy, or a hoe.

    The only real problems I’ve encountered with this are due to guys deceiving themselves about their quality or assuming I was kidding about the game-of-catch analogy.

    Shit tests aren’t necessarily deceptive, just like game isn’t necessarily deceptive.

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  258. on March 3, 2009 at 9:59 am tokyojesusfist

    Does it bother you that not every woman is like you?

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  259. on March 3, 2009 at 10:07 am gig

    I’m a developmentally retarded male or a troll for stating the fact that not all women conduct shit tests? Hmm, ok

    No, because you refuse to answer a direct question like “are you in a current LTR with a non shit-tester woman?” and have opinions like This is not a matter of opinion or experience . Meaning that your opinions aren’t a matter of opinion or experience

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  260. on March 3, 2009 at 10:13 am Bwahaha

    Heh, I told you up front not to pay attention to tokyoanalfisted. Plus, any advice he could give doesn’t apply, since most people learning Game want better interaction with attractive females, rather than settle for a pathetic Yellow Fever relationship.

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  261. on March 3, 2009 at 10:22 am tokyojesusfist

    gig

    No, because you refuse to answer a direct question like “are you in a current LTR with a non shit-tester woman?”

    It’s an irrelevant question, since it’s a fact that not all women are shit testers.

    and have opinions like This is not a matter of opinion or experience . Meaning that your opinions aren’t a matter of opinion or experience

    I wasn’t presenting an opinion, I was presenting a fact.

    Bwahaha

    Heh, I told you up front not to pay attention to tokyoanalfisted. Plus, any advice he could give doesn’t apply, since most people learning Game want better interaction with attractive females, rather than settle for a pathetic Yellow Fever relationship.

    Is Stormfront offline again?

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  262. on March 3, 2009 at 10:23 am I am frat-boy

    Dude, you got most of the conversation right but you missed the important part.

    After the high-five, she whispered to me, “let’s pretend like things didn’t work out. Meet me upstairs in ten minutes for a quick blowjob in the bathroom. Try to lose that creepy blogger guy who’s lurking behind us”.

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  263. on March 3, 2009 at 10:39 am spandrell

    hey that darn freak ruined this thread, one of the best he has written.

    even DA seems normal in comparison. At least he masturbates.

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  264. on March 3, 2009 at 10:52 am z

    Spot-on post.

    That exactly what one used to see 15 years ago at clubs.

    There is so much to be said for all the little reasons that this happens that it would take a short-story to go into them all.

    MOST IMORTANT OF ALL:
    For those who resent having to lower themselves to “game” women, I say this: Guys, notice how those two YOUNG women didn’t even try and find out what these men did for a living, where they lived, what kind of earning potential they had, how educated they were, how well-read and cultured that they were?
    Your rational minds guys WANT to believe that your achievements matter and that they should matter to her as well. Here is the bad news. When these two women are 43 and not 23, they wont remember being hit on by these two men, but they will complain endlessly about how no “successful” men ever tried to hit on them, and hence why they got pumped and dumped by player after player and why they are either married to a physically unattractive man that they snagged in their mid-thirties, or are single mother-cougars still pitifully chasing bad-boys in clubs at that age, complaining about how there are no “good” men out there to be found.

    Simply put, most pretty women, who haven’t been made to think much since adolescence, do not have the future-time-orientation to really find out about a man’s deeper virtues. Its all about how a man can make her “feel” that builds attraction for her. Those two chicks will chase men who can make them feel all sorts of emotions (excitement, embarrassment or the fear of embarrassment, laughter, intrigue, being the center of the club’s attention due to his outlandishness, worry, drama, and pretty much every feeling that they felt as a 16 year old in high school before they got dumped by whomever, et cetera) until their twenties and early thirties are used up, and then suddenly want someone to buy them a house and give them a comfortable lifestyle and will allow them to not to have to get up every morning and go to work. So if you are inclined to fuck them before then, you’d better start making them feel like that boyfriend they had when they were 16 made them feel.

    Just being nice to girls like this gets a man nowhere unless he is a 9 or 10 physically himself. He has GOT TO convey confidence and present himself as a catch that many other women are interested in, and that they are “no big deal” to himself.

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  265. on March 3, 2009 at 10:53 am Anon

    Posted from another thread:

    The key to understanding tokyojesusfist is that he’s an INTJ.

    Info on INTJs:

    “They can be quite stubborn when information relayed to them by authorities, such as parents and teachers, contradicts what they believe. They are sure of their own belief system. INTJs are compelled to establish their own rules, boundaries, standards, and style.”

    “INTJs are not naturally in tune with their own feelings, or with what other people are feeling. They also have a tendency to believe that they are always right.”

    “May quickly dismiss input from others without really considering it
    May take pride in their ability to be critical and find fault in people and things
    May apply their judgment more often towards others, rather than towards themselves
    May have unrealistic and/or unreasonable expectations of others
    May be cuttingly derisive and sarcastic towards others
    May be intolerant of weaknesses in others
    May believe that they’re always right”

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  266. on March 3, 2009 at 10:59 am Seeking Alpha

    That spookily accurate, anon.

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  267. on March 3, 2009 at 11:01 am Anon2

    Tokoyojesusfist has got to be fake. There’s no other explanation.

    A while back, I remember one commenter throwing out a high concept hypothesis that both H and David Alexander were fabrications, meant to be these dueling ying and yangs, the two far ends of the alpha/beta spectrum. I still think it’s possible that David Alexander is fake, but I’m almost certain that tokoyojesusfist is.

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  268. on March 3, 2009 at 11:11 am omw

    I always thought that Friedan’s frustration with life was partly that suburban housewifery does often create an artificial separation between a woman’s physical attractiveness (short-lived) and the usefulness of her labor (much more durable.)

    It seems a little ridiculous to hate feminists for wanting to highlight the value of the latter, even if they absurdly insisted on ignoring or demonizing the former.

    Once a woman has left the fickle flush of youthful beauty behind, her value to the man she picked is as the mother of his children and her ability to run the household, or bring in some sort of compensatory income.

    Reliable birth control and mechanized housework kind of kicked the legs out from under that, but social custom left income-earning unavailable to that class of women. (Women of other social classes have always had some sort of participation in the workforce, out of necessity if nothing else.)

    And I think many of them felt both bored and threatened, knowing there was absolutely nothing left but custom tethering them to their husbands, on whom they had little choice but to helplessly rely.

    I never saw her book as offering much in the way of useful suggestion, but did get the sense that she was accurately describing a legitimate problem for the women of her class .

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  269. on March 3, 2009 at 11:27 am Benedict Smith

    a good wingman is indispensible.

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  270. on March 3, 2009 at 12:04 pm canty

    To defend the indefensible, excessive and explicit shit-testing is definitely an artifact of the modern sexual market. It’s just obvious that a woman who went Princeton AB -> Georgetown JD, who lives in DC, and who works for a regulatory agency is bizarrely anomalous by the standards of history.

    She’s educated, she’s independent, and she interacts professionally with hundreds of men every week, often strangers. She’s been selected for very specific aptitudes that even 50 years ago she would have been made to repress. She intends to control her own sexual destiny by meeting strangers until she finally finds one that meets her incredibly high standards, whom she’ll marry, in theory; and until then, she is going to hook up and play the field.

    By contrast, a typical high-iq woman from the peasant class 200 years ago would have grown up in a village. Unless she was a +5 sd natural at something that would allow her to change her life – perhaps a 1 per million voice or great gifts as an actress – her main sexual choice would have been which of the 30 men her age to marry among the three villages within a day’s walk.

    For such a woman, excessive shit-testing would have been reckless. She’d already know a great deal about the characters and qualities of her prospective mates from village gossip (which is never wrong) and from her family’s appraisals. And to a great extent her choice would have been circumscribed by a man’s position whatever his manly qualities; hence, the stock character of the lecherous old man in commedia dell’arte, or the countless plots where the heroine seeks to marry her heroic but penniless young lover rather than an old, fat, flatulent, warty, and nearsighted old miser.

    Once our Ms. Peasant had found herself a bold young lover, she’d be a fool to tell him to talk to the hand. She’d rather have struck while the iron was hot – peasant girls don’t keep their looks.

    This woman today has gone from restricted choice to excessive choice or, more properly, the illusion of excessive choice, driven by mass media which are of course primarily concerned with love. (What percentage of popular songs are about any other subject?) Every time she goes out as a single girl, it’s speed-dating time. Men will constantly be coming up to her, which means that her primary mode will be rejection. Since her standards are very high, almost no one passes by normal means.

    This is why, if you marry, you should marry a girl from a non-Western modern society (so long as any remain in existence.) You can still meet some girls in Asia and Eastern Europe who don’t shit-test much. Of course, they test you in other ways, but the way to pass their tests is usually to be smart and hard-working. My wife, for instance, is an old-style Eastern European, and she fell for me hard as soon as I showed her I was smart. There’s more to our relationship than that, but I’m telling you, for her that was better than if I were 6’2″ with perfect teeth and rock-hard abs. Honestly, she finds my high test scores sexy, weird as it sounds. Once her family found out what I could do, they all got on my team and told her to marry me right away. And when I learned their language, which wasn’t hard (merely annoying,) they were putty.

    Before she and I were married, I used the same “IQ game” on Asian girls all the time. “Oooo, you majored in math?” “Oooo, you speak foreign languages?” “Oooo, you work for that company?”

    You can also get good results by joining the Mormons or something. The sexual dynamics are completely different in that culture. Virtually all men get married; it’s in the life script. And honestly, some Mormon girls are busted & fat, but you play the percentages, and they have good percentages for blonde, trim, and nice faces. I’ve never met a bitchy Mormon girl, although who knows, perhaps they just keep it behind closed doors, which is also better than the alternative.

    There are some normal American girls like that, but they’re pretty damn thin on the ground. So TJF is right, in principle: there are some girls who don’t shit-test. But this is probably irrelevant advice to most commenters here. It’s not like you’re going to marry Asians or Mormons, so you need game, end of story. There have been and there will be cultures where shit-testing isn’t pervasive, but most of us will never live in one, and the few remaining are changing fast.

    I think this is probably behind whiskey’s 50’s nostalgia also, but that’s probably for another post.

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  271. on March 3, 2009 at 12:08 pm Du.Erudite

    I think Tokyo is real and is clearly addicted to this blog. He may derive some sort of twisted self-worth from playing his verbal games here, despite deriding the role of games in human behavior.

    I suspect he is a very lonely virgin with many hateful and painful feelings. He seems to be isolated and out of touch with reality. Yet, he wants to connect with all of us in a negative way, like a disobedient child. He is trying to cope with his internal pain by trading words with men who are, unlike him, successful having various relationships with women.

    Unfortunately for him, his state of life will never change by arguing here. This is sad, since the information in this blog could most help a lost man like him. But one day, when he is with a woman in flesh, he will begin to change. Hopefully she will reach him and he will see both women and himself as they truly are. Until that day, I doubt he will be reached by any words used here.

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  272. on March 3, 2009 at 12:21 pm Thursday

    canty:

    I have noticed that church girls will often throw out a shit test, and then immediately apologize for it.

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  273. on March 3, 2009 at 12:26 pm PA

    when I learned their language, which wasn’t hard

    Which language was it if I may ask? Slavic languages are notoriously difficult for their grammatical complexity. If you learned one of the EE languages as an adult with no prior exposure to that language, then my hat off to ya!

    You can also get good results by joining the Mormons or something.

    There is a lot of truth to that and yes, it does call for a whole different post.

    A few days ago I caught a eality show episode of the Duggar family on one of the women’s/home channels. The Duggers are a fundamentalist (I’m not saying that pejoratively) Christian family in Arkansas; they have 18 kids, all from the same mon & dad, who are financially independent (ie not on welfare).

    The reality show portrays them sympathetically. And watching them transports you to a parallel reality; a superior one in a way. The kids, aged 20 or so through infant come across as pure and clean, for lack of better term. They are very good looking, smart, they talk well and very respectufly, and the boys come across both as very likeable and very confident Alpha, old school way. Some of the girls are heart-stoppingly pretty.

    The episode I watched involved a wedding of the oldest boy to a gorgeous girl from a similar Fundamentalist family. Their first kiss ever occurred after they took their wedding vows. It was clearly obvious that they were in love and hot for one another. Since they couldn’t kiss before marriagge, al lthey did was hold hands and bring their faces cloes while looking in each others’ eyes. The sexual tension in those moments was thick.

    I felt this feeling of profound reassurance to know that there are folks like them out there. Since this blog is all about the fascinating intersection of modern sexuality and the fate of the West, I’ll add that if the West is to be reborn, it will be through families like the Duggars.

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  274. on March 3, 2009 at 12:26 pm Thursday

    they have good percentages for blonde, trim, and nice faces.

    There are lots of Mormons of Swedish ancestry.

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  275. on March 3, 2009 at 12:26 pm Chuck

    Obsidian:

    First, there is a book, written in the early 90s called “The Way We Never Were” by Stephanie Coontz. It talks about what you mentioned that the 1950s were no picnic. Also, the movie “Revolutionary Road” provides powerful insight into the struggles of masculinity and family life of that decade. If you haven’t already, you should check them both out.

    I won’t speak for Whiskey, and I’m not sure if he’d agree, but I have a similar take on Game as he does. I view Game as beneficial in several aspects. It does allow for greater success with women for those first-movers willing to make the leap of faith. It can help in various individual relationships as far as assertiveness is somewhat attractive to both sex and business partners. Most importantly is the inner-Game aspect of Game. Increased confidence (which I view as a seperate entitiy versus PUA Game) helps in many aspects of life.

    One thing Game will NOT do, though, is improve the “plight of masculinity.” Game cannot be a mass movement. It is merely a marginal one. It *cannot* help everyone, only those who hop on board relatively early (I can’t say how many the boat holds, just that it can’t hold everyone). Several dynamics are at play here. First, if men are successful in their use of Game, more sex will be had. More women will be laid. More sluts will be created. This is antithetical to a gripe men have about women. Men complain that there are no more “worthy” women (i.e. non-slutty, faithful, packaged w/o shit tests). Game is just another repackaged attempt for men to get over on other men. We are subject to our competitive nature to obtain as many women as we can. Unfortunately, we are directly competing against other men who are seeking out the same tactics we are. As long as that dynamic is on the table (i.e. forever), males will suffer from this “problem” of ours. PUA Game, as opposed to confidence-boosting Game, provides a re-ordering of the social hierarchy that determines who gets the spoils of T and A. This re-jumbling of the order only falls back into the same pattern as before, a few alpha males at the top reaping most of the spoils and stronger and lesser betas reaping decreasingly fewer.

    This last point speaks to the point you make about men being the biggest haters of Game. Of course they are! In the same way,as pointed out here before, women are the biggest misogynists. It goes back to competition. Game is a powerful tool for wooing women. Men who are not first movers, though, will be left worse off than they were before Game’s ascendence, thus the hatred of Game by some men. In short, it will hurt their reproductive possibilities in the future in the same way sluts are maligned by other women because they are sponging up all of the available jizz to be had, upping the ante on the mating/dating Game.

    I’m not trying to make an analogy to the crash-and-burn of the internet stock bubble or the real estate bubble either, but the hatred towards those “pump-and-dumpers” by those who failed to capitalize on the huge asset value increased hated on those who were able to.

    One last point that could be viewed as anti-Game by some is that Game (PUA Game) is a tool used to have more success with women. Women are the barometer against which success is measured. Women, in this environment, still determine the worthiness and value of men. A male’s value here is even more a function of women’s perception of him. Men, to be successful in PUA Game aren’t supposed to care as much what women think, but they gain their value based upon *what women think*. As long as women are the arbiters of value, men, as a whole, will suffer.

    So that’s where my sometime Anti-Game streak comes from. It’s not to say that Game doesn’t have some benefits, it obviously does, but it can’t be used as a mass movement to rescue masculinity. Game can help *me* if I get there in time, but that will hurt the guy next to me in the club who doesn’t understand Game. This isn’t a judgement against Game; life is all about competition, but it’s a realization that Game won’t fix males’ shitty place in this feminized world, and that issue is of most interest to me. Game is not able to reorder the legal structure and stranglehold of the media that has turned this culture against the masculine. Where that reorder comes from, I’m not sure.

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  276. on March 3, 2009 at 12:29 pm tokyojesusfist

    Du.Erudite

    I suspect he is a very lonely virgin with many hateful and painful feelings. He seems to be isolated and out of touch with reality.

    You must be confusing me with someone else.

    Yet, he wants to connect with all of us in a negative way, like a disobedient child. He is trying to cope with his internal pain by trading words with men who are, unlike him, successful having various relationships with women.

    Success in life has nothing to do with relationships.

    Unfortunately for him, his state of life will never change by arguing here. This is sad, since the information in this blog could most help a lost man like him.

    I’m still not interested in casual relationships, so clearly this blog’s information is of little practical use to me.

    But one day, when he is with a woman in flesh, he will begin to change.

    I have no need to change.

    Until that day, I doubt he will be reached by any words used here.

    Translation: “waah waah whine whine, how dare this person disagree with me.”

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  277. on March 3, 2009 at 12:29 pm The G Manifesto

    Vladimir

    The G Manifesto:

    Of course, making CASH, dressing sharp, traveling, drinking wine, smoking cigarettes, swooping girls…oh wait.

    “You forgot the seven hours a day that you apparently spend posting blog comments. I guess that’s the most exciting part of the international playboy lifestyle.”

    Didn’t forget it skippy.

    It falls under the time I spend “making CASH”.

    Its called multi-tasking.

    You should look into it.

    – MPM

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  278. on March 3, 2009 at 12:36 pm Seeking Alpha

    Vladmir – If he drops a book, are more or less people going to read it because of his increased posting on the blog lately?

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  279. on March 3, 2009 at 12:40 pm mikeylikey

    “I’m still not interested in casual relationships, so clearly this blog’s information is of little practical use to me.”

    err, so seriously, why are you here?

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  280. on March 3, 2009 at 12:49 pm Patrick

    TokyoJesusFist says:

    “Success in life has nothing to do with relationships.”

    Setting aside the fact that Du.Erudite wasn’t commenting about “success in life” but rather specifically success with women, and that yours is a blatant straw man argument, I’m curious about this peculiar statement.

    I wonder how you define “success in life” to the total exclusion of relationships.

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  281. on March 3, 2009 at 12:49 pm Anon

    “I have no need to change.”

    This is why you fail

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  282. on March 3, 2009 at 12:53 pm lehuster

    Betty Friedan’s The Feminine Mystique was born of her frustrations as a suburband housewife of the 1950s.
    …
    I always thought that Friedan’s frustration with life was partly that suburban housewifery does often create an artificial separation between a woman’s physical attractiveness (short-lived) and the usefulness of her labor (much more durable.)

    Betty Friedan was never a frustrated suburban housewife, though she masqueraded as one when she wrote her book. She was always a professional Marxist (Stalinist) agitator determined to destroy bourgeois society and its bedrock institution, the traditional family.

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  283. on March 3, 2009 at 12:54 pm tokyojesusfist

    Patrick

    Setting aside the fact that Du.Erudite wasn’t commenting about “success in life” but rather specifically success with women, and that yours is a blatant straw man argument, I’m curious about this peculiar statement.

    As far as I could tell he was talking about success in general. So it wasn’t a straw man.

    I wonder how you define “success in life” to the total exclusion of relationships.

    Success in life is not based on relationships.

    Anon

    This is why you fail

    I haven’t failed.

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  284. on March 3, 2009 at 12:54 pm lehuster

    I wonder how you define “success in life” to the total exclusion of relationships.

    It’s all about increasing his XBox Gamerscore. =)

    LikeLike


  285. on March 3, 2009 at 1:00 pm tokyojesusfist

    Yes, obviously every human being must choose between banging sluts and playing video games.

    LikeLike


  286. on March 3, 2009 at 1:01 pm Seeking Alpha

    Off-topic, but just a thought. I know most people here don’t agree with my economic views, so let’s skip the ideological aspect of the debate (we’ve done it before) and try and address this practical point.

    Because of a) unskilled illegal immigration and b) outsourcing manufacturing, a lot of the people that would otherwise be unemployed in this economy aren’t our problem.

    For unskilled illegal immigration, rather than a middle-class American losing his construction job and collecting unemployment, his illegal helper has lost his job and gone back across to Mexico. His middle-class contractor boss still has his job, just with a little less business.

    For outsourced manufacturing, rather than a middle-class American losing his job building iPhones or toys and collecting unemployment, the Chinese worker has lost his job and isn’t our problem. The engineer, salesperson, business analyst, or manager still has his job, just with maybe a smaller bonus or a smaller raise this year.

    It was just a thought I had. What do you think?

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  287. on March 3, 2009 at 1:03 pm Anon

    TJF:
    “I haven’t failed.”

    Everybody fails. If you honestly believe you haven’t, then you just have.

    LikeLike


  288. on March 3, 2009 at 1:07 pm tokyojesusfist

    Anon

    Everybody fails. If you honestly believe you haven’t, then you just have.

    If you have failed during the course of this thread, that doesn’t mean everyone else has.

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  289. on March 3, 2009 at 1:08 pm Wounded Animal

    One thing Game will NOT do, though, is improve the “plight of masculinity.” Game cannot be a mass movement. It is merely a marginal one. It *cannot* help everyone, only those who hop on board relatively early (I can’t say how many the boat holds, just that it can’t hold everyone).

    This gets me thinking about a quibble I have with the form and the substance of Game. The substance of Game is status. Period. To get status, you need wealth, and to get wealth, you need a whole host of inputs that not all of us can have. You may be as smoove as Smoove B, but to any woman of decent IQ and sufficient life-experience that won’t make up for the fact that you’re a schlep in outside sales who’s living paycheck to paycheck. So white collar nobodies adopting the form of Game–wearing the right clothes, saying the right thing, and striking the right attitude–will do fine to a point. But then they’ll turn 30 and the bar will get raised on them. Not everyone gets to be Jack Nicholson or Francois Pinault.

    Now, the good thing is that Status is scaleable. Let’s say I’m a 95IQ redneck but I have some common sense, so I graduate from trade school, don’t blow my whole paycheck every week, watch my personal habits, and eventually buy my own trailer. I’m now a big fish in that particular pond.

    But I’m really not sure what men can do in the far more anti-masculine environment of cities. As whiskey has pointed out, our society is accelerating toward a Third World Big Man model with a few alphas and a LOT of frustrated betas who are essentially put in domestic exile by the larger culture. Thus, I wonder if Game will just become the redoubt of a few gammas outside the hierarchy, scoring on pass-around chicks and bored married women.

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  290. on March 3, 2009 at 1:11 pm biktopia

    A guy that has brain is much more attractive then a guy that is handsome but has as an IQ like a glass of water, I don’t think, or at least i don’t mind if a guy i less handsome, but he has to have confidence,, if the guy is smart enough, he could get any girl, really!

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  291. on March 3, 2009 at 1:11 pm Wounded Animal

    his illegal helper has lost his job and gone back across to Mexico.

    Where would you rather be poor and unemployed: the US or Mexico?

    Jose is staying put, and his “visible minority” status will get him bumped to the front of the line as the Obama swill bucket passes his way.

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  292. on March 3, 2009 at 1:13 pm Seeking Alpha

    See Wounded Animal, that was exactly the kind of ideological hyperbolic discussion I was hoping to avoid. Last time I checked, unemployment benefits and welfare require a valid social security card which most illegals don’t have. How about a little thought and balance before you type?

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  293. on March 3, 2009 at 1:14 pm Patrick

    TokyoJesusFist:

    “As far as I could tell…”

    You’re an intellectually dishonest piece of shit, Tokyo. We all know you’re not so stupid as to have failed to understand Du.Erudite’s plain statements. You CHOOSE to argue without any honesty, or apparently, self-respect. Prior to that bullshit cop-out, I was open to hearing your argument, but the fact is, you have none. You cannot defend anything you say because you truly say nothing.

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  294. on March 3, 2009 at 1:15 pm mikeylikey

    I guess if we just all start ignoring tokyojesusfist, he will have nothing to feed off of and will go back to hentai. Let the ignoring begin… now!

    LikeLike


  295. on March 3, 2009 at 1:17 pm gig

    People who still answer that TJF freak are becoming more annoying than TJF himself.

    Anti-game tirades are to TJF what disgusting “GNPs” are to Peter. A freakish fixation.

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  296. on March 3, 2009 at 1:18 pm tokyojesusfist

    Patrick

    You’re an intellectually dishonest piece of shit, Tokyo.

    If someone writes in an unclear or ambiguous way, it doesn’t make me intellectually dishonest. Get a grip.

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  297. on March 3, 2009 at 1:18 pm dougjnn

    z-

    “Simply put, most pretty women, who haven’t been made to think much since adolescence, do not have the future-time-orientation to really find out about a man’s deeper virtues. Its all about how a man can make her “feel” that builds attraction for her. Those two chicks will chase men who can make them feel all sorts of emotions (excitement, embarrassment or the fear of embarrassment, laughter, intrigue, being the center of the club’s attention due to his outlandishness, worry, drama, and pretty much every feeling that they felt as a 16 year old in high school before they got dumped by whomever, et cetera)”

    Brilliant comment z. I nominate as comment of the month. Though I suppose it’s too long. The whole comment not just the part I quoted was VERY insightful. It could very usefully be quoted by him in full as a future blog entry.

    Even the ones who did study hard at an elite college and become a professional often want the same sorts of emotional chills and thrills in the young dating market these days it seems. Or have pre current depression (cause that’s where it’s going right quick).

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  298. on March 3, 2009 at 1:19 pm tokyojesusfist

    mikeylikey

    I guess if we just all start ignoring tokyojesusfist, he will have nothing to feed off of and will go back to hentai. Let the ignoring begin… now!

    I’ve never watched hentai. What are you talking about?

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  299. on March 3, 2009 at 1:21 pm Wounded Animal

    1. You didn’t answer my question.
    2. There are a whole host of public and private welfare services that don’t require a SS card.
    3. SS cards are easily forged, and valid #’s can be obtained thru identity theft, or just passed around the network as need be.

    Your “thought” is based on a false premise. I repeat, Jose ain’t going anywhere and once that gummint money starts flowing he’ll be far better positioned to take advantage of it than you’ll be.

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  300. on March 3, 2009 at 1:22 pm Chuck

    I agree that all of the catering to TJF and his ilk is really starting to detract from this board.

    This board used to be like living in Colorado before the influx of Californians and Texans. It was a sublime place, one where men could be men and David Alexander could be David Alexander.

    Now this TJF guy comes along, the attention whore that he is, and everyone caters to him. Possibly because his block quotes and shit are so annoying and possibly because he has nothing of merit to say, I scroll right over his comments. I have no problem with that; it’s just when every other comment is a response to his crap does the water get murky.

    I’m just another voice in favor of NOT FEEDING THE TROLLS. He doesn’t even offer a compelling argument like even Kthulah is capable of sometimes, why give him the time and energy?

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  301. on March 3, 2009 at 1:24 pm dougjnn

    lehuster–

    “Betty Friedan was never a frustrated suburban housewife, though she masqueraded as one when she wrote her book. She was always a professional Marxist (Stalinist) agitator determined to destroy bourgeois society and its bedrock institution, the traditional family.”

    Absolutely correct, and well said. I was going to make the same point when I saw Obsedian talk about her as a frustrated 50’s suburban housewife driven batty by boredom — someone a whole vast middle and upper middle class strata of American women coseted at home at the time by the high and rapidly rising wages of the then rapidly expanding American middle class, could identify with. That was of course exactly what he was supposed to believe about her and what feminists usually still put out.

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  302. on March 3, 2009 at 1:25 pm Seeking Alpha

    To answer your rhetorical question – If I had a family back in Mexico that I was working to support, and there were no jobs in US, I’d rather go back to Mexico. Find a job in the gray or black economy maybe. But you and I have fundamentally different views about the character and nature of immigrants.

    And – gummint – spelling words snarkily is something intellectually-bankrupt leftists do (i.e. Dubya). Don’t fall down to their level.

    Also, while I don’t know much about social services, I’m guessing you don’t either. I’m comfortable admitting that – that’s why I was just throwing out a thought without conviction in either direction. Do you have any knowledge of social service procedures and the cost and availability of false identities (not including anything you’ve read on a some biased, poorly sourced blog).

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  303. on March 3, 2009 at 1:27 pm gig

    TJF quotes everyone. Not only people answering to him, but everyone saying anything positive about game. So everyone is compelled to answer, at least to defend himself.

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  304. on March 3, 2009 at 1:33 pm Sebastian Flyte

    I’m astonished. Modern plastic surgery… 50 year old Madonna looks kinda like Linsey Lohan here
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1158891/Is-ribbon-lift-secret-Madonnas-youthful-new-look.html

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  305. on March 3, 2009 at 1:34 pm Anon

    I used to work with a fat stupid annoying guy. His fatness and attention whoring made him difficult to ignore at first, but I succeeded and felt glad to not have to deal with his aggrevating negatvity.

    I will ignore TJF; he brings nothing here.

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  306. on March 3, 2009 at 1:35 pm Wounded Animal

    Child education, ER services, and Catholic and Lutheran missions do not require legal status. Moreover, if you parented jus soli children in the US, you are not going to be deported.

    You are one naive whiteboy.

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  307. on March 3, 2009 at 1:38 pm Wounded Animal

    Just did a quick look. Illegal alien parents of jus soli kids are also eligible for AFDC. Now you know why Mexican immigrants are so fecund.

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  308. on March 3, 2009 at 1:39 pm Seeking Alpha

    So in other words, no unemployment, no welfare, no food stampes, nothing? So for the average immigrant who came over by himself with his family still in Latin America, he gets basically nothing (except charitable giving)?

    Sounds like you exaggerated a lot.

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  309. on March 3, 2009 at 1:42 pm tokyojesusfist

    Chuck

    I’m just another voice in favor of NOT FEEDING THE TROLLS.

    Yes, clearly anyone who challenges the immutable laws of Game must be a troll.

    He doesn’t even offer a compelling argument like even Kthulah is capable of sometimes, why give him the time and energy?

    No, you’re just pretending that I haven’t offered any arguments.

    Anon

    I will ignore TJF; he brings nothing here.

    I guess you, like so many other sensitive people, subscribe to the theory that Internet discussions should be circle jerks where nobody disagrees on anything.

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  310. on March 3, 2009 at 1:43 pm PA

    I would have very little problem in principle with immigrants (legal or not) if they were of the same or very similar ethnic/racial/religious/cultural identity as the majority of the host country’s population.

    The economic arguments can sbe atrgued both ways forever but in the long run (one generation), similar-enough immigrants will have assimilated to the host society.

    The problem that we have is that today’s immigrants are not of the same “raw material” as the core European-descended American population. I’m not saying “better” or “worse.” I am saying “different.”

    With continued immigration as it is today, the long-term effect of immigration is extremely and permanently damaging to the very essence of what America is — as by definition any population replacement is going to be. Even if we are to be elbowed aside by superior angelic creatures, we are still being elbowed aside.

    That’s why I think that immigration restrictionists who focus too much effort squabbling over relative minutae like IQ or the economy (which are legitimate arguments) are avoiding the essential point — that the third world immigrants are different, and by virtue of their very difference, they are changing our country into their own image. Goodbye one Somalia and one Finland. Hello two Somalias.

    But to state this point plainly requires one to abandon his liberal assumptions of human interchangeability.

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  311. on March 3, 2009 at 1:45 pm spandrell

    no need to defend oneself against that troll.

    Please gentlemen use your brains.

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  312. on March 3, 2009 at 1:46 pm Wounded Animal

    Still more than in Mexico, and I’d dispute your apparent belief that the average immigrant is some sort of hardbitten itinerant who left his ninos in Mexico. Again, they are an incredibly fecund bunch in the US and there is ample incentive for them to be.

    Why did you even derail the thread anyway? I’m done with this topic.

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  313. on March 3, 2009 at 1:46 pm David Alexander

    Clueless 19-yo’s don’t mind screwing on futons without sheets; 20-somethings in the 7+ range who are sizing a man up for his genetics do.

    Admittedly, that’s why I’ve stayed out of the dating pool with the pre-condition that I finish school first and get a career. In theory, one can use game to attract the “right kind” of white girl, but one needs a career to keep her around for long-term purposes with some begrudging acceptance from her family.

    Sure, and they’re in a coma or vegetative state.

    Hearing that all women give out shit tests is akin to finding out that there’s no Santa.

    Yes, obviously every human being must choose between banging sluts and playing video games.

    Admittedly, I’ve always said that one of the drawbacks of a girlfriend is that you’re obligated to do stuff with her, and that gets in the way of reading blogs, riding trains, and playing Sim City.

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  314. on March 3, 2009 at 1:48 pm Seeking Alpha

    PA – Come on brother, we’ve had these arguments ten thousand times before. Let’s not rehash them. We both disagree and neither will change his mind.

    Forget long-term cultural decay. I’ll even grant you the point just so we can move past it. You said awhile ago – and he quoted you – that immigration and manufacturing outsource hurts the middle class. I’m just asking if the picture I painted above contradicts that one part of your argument, or if you disagree with the picture.

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  315. on March 3, 2009 at 1:48 pm Vladimir

    The G Manifesto:

    Didn’t forget it skippy.

    It falls under the time I spend “making CASH”.

    Its called multi-tasking.

    You should look into it.

    Oh come on, you can do much better than that. I seriously expected something way more over the top.

    How about this? “I wrote this blog comment from the Beau Rivage suite of the Badrutt’s Palace in St. Moritz, from my Armani gold smartphone, while puffing on a Hoyo de Monterrey, sipping Armagnac de Montal, and enjoying the view of the Engadin Mountains after a threesome with two lingerie models from Milan. All paid by my Russian partners with whom I’m about to make some serious CASH later tonight.”

    Yeah, I know, googling can be tedious, but sometimes you have to work harder to maintain the status of a well-versed international playboy…

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  316. on March 3, 2009 at 1:49 pm Seeking Alpha

    Wounded, the thread was just an argument with TJF and I SAID it was off-topic and I said I was just looking for a little intelligent debate on a subject that a lot of people care about. I really didn’t want to get in an argument with a reactionary like yourself. I appreciate you saying you’re done, although I wish you had never started in the first place.

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  317. on March 3, 2009 at 1:50 pm tokyojesusfist

    spandrell

    no need to defend oneself against that troll.

    Please gentlemen use your brains.

    If you were using yours, you’d realize that baseless accusations of trolling are the last refuge of the incompetent.

    LikeLike


  318. on March 3, 2009 at 2:01 pm dougjnn

    Vladamir–

    hilarious.

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  319. on March 3, 2009 at 2:26 pm omw

    Yes, virtually everyone knows that Friedan was a leftist sympathizer, but she did describe, in my view, a problem common to the class of women she moved in.

    If there had been zero reality-to-description correlation there, her book would have been nothing but another random crank’s manifesto relegated to the ash-heap of history.

    (and she successfully undermined the role of the housewife in all classes while she was at it. Cosseted, spoiled, and ignorant, as you say.

    Also, ugly and sexless. Or too sexual.

    A worthless anachronism, at any rate. Good riddance, right, doug?)

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  320. on March 3, 2009 at 2:26 pm DefaultUser

    to: tokyojesusfist

    So how do men get beyond game?

    If a man wants to meet, attract, and keep a quality woman (whatever “quality” means to the particular man), what does he need to do?

    What are the steps he needs to go through to get her attention, gain her attraction, earn her affection, and keep the relationship running smoothly?

    If a man does not want to be a player, but is only looking for a serious long-term relationship (no pump-and-dump) he still needs to meet, attract, and keep that special woman. How does a man achieve that while avoiding game?

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  321. on March 3, 2009 at 2:41 pm Bhetti B

    Doug:
    Before I snag anybody, I first need to change myself since I’m currently in a place where I don’t want any relation with men: long-term or otherwise.

    I have physically been in a relationship with one person (first kiss and all) — who if I’m fair half the time was a bitter/veryneedy-type beta and the other half of the time was just plain out of his mind. Emotionally, I’ve been with two people: him and another beta whom I know only by the internet. I love the ’emotion only’ beta to bits in terms of that I can’t stop talking to him or virtually hanging out with him. I’ve been talking to internetbeta for five years and I’m pretty sure I could’ve been happy with him if a) he didn’t drop out of high school b) took any form of jobseeking advice from me c) he actually bothered to meet me with the amounts of money he spent on games [or… the doubts in my mind say, if he wasn’t a beta?]. Part of the reason he didn’t was because he was afraid I wouldn’t like him if I met him, which in hindsight may have been true, God knows. He actually has a job now(after four years of staying at home) and the patheticness of our online relationship looks like heaven compared to recent experience with Mr Insane. [The spectrum of betaness: frightening]

    The point of the life story is that that’s what I went for; I wanted a guy to sincerely love me, someone who would do anything for me, someone I could talk to, who gave me my freedom and so on. The problem is it’s a lie. These guys mistake their sexual attraction for love and the way they act for wanting to do anything for a person. Despite their histrionics, it amounted to nothing. I would prefer a guy to just be honest with his own nature: especially when he’s young, he just wants sex and he wants to get it easy.

    I’m also sincerely suspecting that most men don’t actually like women for anything other than their hotness: considering them to be boring, cruel, fickle, attention-seeking, stupid and/or shallow if they’re not attracted to them. Despite the stereotypes, homosexual men in my experience seem to prefer men’s company for all their needs (including social and mental).

    This has caused me to be completely off betas, and not to get that warm feeling and even sexual attraction when a bond of mutal affection is created. I automatically assume a man and the word ‘love’ means he’s a liar, and if he doesn’t even realise it himself, it’s worse.

    I assume that I’m attracted to alphas. I know that I’d have to really work to have any sort of relationship with one. I assume wanting to be on my own has nothing to do with being attracted to alphas, I just can’t stand a beta anymore. At the same time, I sincerely don’t intend to have any other relationship premaritally due to my own cultural and religious beliefs.

    The only scenario I can see myself being with a man who is with multiple women is as a muslim with him taking other wives. It’s not really culturally that accepted anymore so it might be difficult with my family, but I’m actually fine with it. I know my aunt is with one such old rich alpha; once when she visited she asked me as a medical student for something to get rid of his libido because he won’t leave other women alone. She doesn’t seem particularly happy. I have another aunt who hasn’t married ever, she doesn’t seem particularly happy either.

    With most relationships, they seem to get the most love and fulfillment out of their children. We know how much of a nightmare they are!

    So a question I keep asking myself is if:
    sex (which I put no value on; seeing as how high cost it is for me psychologically/culturally/spiritually and knowing its a superficial temporary enjoyment),
    affection (not romantic love, which isn’t realistic for me by the only definitions I’m willing to accept it by)
    and
    children (which mine will turn out to be violent, depressive nightmares at least initially whom I may abuse to some extent)
    are actually worth it?

    The conclusion for me right now is that I’m just not going to give up my freedom and happiness for men I’m not attracted to (and who my family won’t approve of) and men who won’t stick around; I’m finding it really hard to be attracted to any man more than a superficial level. I will probably stop feeling like this when I’m a bitter thirty year old, with my best years behind me. Or in a couple of months, God knows.

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  322. on March 3, 2009 at 2:47 pm DefaultUser

    Sara I

    What I’m saying is neither the insecure betas you deride nor the players you worship are being their true selves. The only difference is one gets laid and the other doesn’t and that’s good enough for you. One is a calculating insecure phony and the other is just not confident enough to be their true selves, which is why most women dislike both types and are always looking for a “real” man.

    I think many players/PUAs are true to themselves. They really are sensation seeking hedonists. It is precisly these qualities that make them seem exciting to women.

    The problem comes when other types of men feel the need to act like players. They have exchanged seeking the approval of women to seeking the approval of men. In this case they are still acting in an insecure manner.

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  323. on March 3, 2009 at 3:10 pm Christian Audiger

    GManifesto –

    A lot of haters out there attacking you on this forum.

    How does the People’s Champ continue to persevere?

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  324. on March 3, 2009 at 3:14 pm Sebastian Flyte

    Saw an episode of Keys to the VIP. One of the guys, a kind of beta, approached a set and got blown out. The girl actually said ‘ehhh, I don’t think you have the right moves’. Ridiculous!!! She admits that she would have responded differently had his game been tighter! Few women are this honest,. But doesn’t it also show the ridiculousness of women? They don’t know what, but they just don’t ‘feel’ it, and that’s that, you need the ‘moves’.

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  325. on March 3, 2009 at 3:16 pm tokyojesusfist

    DefaultUser

    If a man does not want to be a player, but is only looking for a serious long-term relationship (no pump-and-dump) he still needs to meet, attract, and keep that special woman. How does a man achieve that while avoiding game?

    There is no method, technique or routine. No magic solution. Just be yourself (if you think “yourself” isn’t good enough, improve it until it is), act naturally and treat like her a sensible, adult human being (and if she isn’t, forget about her). Have some common sense and don’t be a douchebag or too much of a doormat.

    It’s pretty much impossible to explain this in any detail. If someone asked me how to make and keep friends, I wouldn’t know what to say. It’s the same thing with this.

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  326. on March 3, 2009 at 3:17 pm Seeking Alpha

    TJF – Have you tried that method successfully in the past?

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  327. on March 3, 2009 at 3:25 pm DefaultUser

    Sara I

    I have a question for you. Who here do you think has the answer to that question?

    That question was to tokyojesusfist who was telling us how bad game was. I probably will not receive an answer from him other than “don’t do game.” I was not looking for advice; the question was more rhetorical than information seeking.

    But to answer your point: I believe in the “lite” version of game. I try not to get hung up on details such as whether an alpha would smile or scowl at this point in the interaction, would he stand with weight on his right or left foot? Etc. etc. I do however try to project all the confidence and sexuality I can. More correctly I do not try and hide it. I find discussion of game interesting, if you do not take it too literally (e.g., does beat-down game work?). In other words, I can enjoy some of the discussions here, but do not build my life around them.

    The problem most “betas” is that they project an asexual vibe. They lack the confidence or comfort in their own sexuality. No woman can be attracted to such a man.

    Will there be hot women on that Alaska cruise? 🙂

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  328. on March 3, 2009 at 3:27 pm tokyojesusfist

    There is no method.

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  329. on March 3, 2009 at 3:27 pm Thursday

    If someone asked me how to make and keep friends

    There is actually a really good book on how to make and keep friends here.

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  330. on March 3, 2009 at 3:30 pm Thursday

    There is a really good book on effective teaching here.

    Every other area of interpersonal relations has a technique. People talk about social skills, because that is what they are, skills.

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  331. on March 3, 2009 at 3:31 pm steve

    Vladimir,

    “How about this? “I wrote this blog comment from the Beau Rivage suite of the Badrutt’s Palace in St. Moritz, from my Armani gold smartphone, while puffing on a Hoyo de Monterrey, sipping Armagnac de Montal, and enjoying the view of the Engadin Mountains after a threesome with two lingerie models from Milan. All paid by my Russian partners with whom I’m about to make some serious CASH later tonight.”

    I like that one.

    Really I am not a big St. Moritz guy. And I think you missed my style a little, but still a great comment.

    I am enjoying the 70-80+ Southern California weather right now.

    And I did swoop three fly girls over the weekend.

    Suited down.

    – MPM

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  332. on March 3, 2009 at 3:49 pm twiceaday

    TJF:
    Thanks for finally giving a direct answer.

    “if you think “yourself” isn’t good enough, improve it until it is”
    This is a huge part of game.

    “act naturally”
    Most guys have a huge problem acting naturally around women they’re attracted to. Game helps them do it.

    “treat like her a sensible, adult human being (and if she isn’t, forget about her)”
    Another big part of game is learning that a sensible, adult woman has very different thought and emotional processes from a sensible, adult man.

    “There is no method.”
    You just described one. Just because it’s not as detailed as certain types of game and seems natural to you doesn’t make it any less of a method.

    LikeLike


  333. on March 3, 2009 at 4:04 pm DefaultUser

    To: tokyojesusfist

    There is no method, technique or routine. No magic solution. Just be yourself (if you think “yourself” isn’t good enough, improve it until it is), act naturally and treat like her a sensible, adult human being (and if she isn’t, forget about her). Have some common sense and don’t be a douchebag or too much of a doormat.

    It’s pretty much impossible to explain this in any detail. If someone asked me how to make and keep friends, I wouldn’t know what to say. It’s the same thing with this.

    Obviously none of this applies to the sort of women they are after.

    Game theory actually covers a lot of this. It just systematizes it for the more logical or geeky types.

    “(if you think “yourself” isn’t good enough, improve it until it is)”
    In other words learn the things you are doing wrong in terms of body language posture etc. Develop interest that will be interesting to others. Covered in game.

    don’t be a douchebag or too much of a doormat.
    Covered in game under things like negs (don’t be a doormat) or Cocky/Funny (Cocky: don’t be a doormat, Funny: but don’t be a douchebag).

    act naturally
    Meeting for the purposes of “romance” (whether only for sex or with the long-term in mind) has tensions that do not exist in other interactions. Talking to another man about sports is not the same as talking to a woman that you are attracted to. For a woman talking to another woman about shopping is not the same as talking to a man she may be attracted to (and who because of his approach is probably attracted to her). Game aims to help lower those tensions so the entire interaction can be more natural. It is the tension that creates the feeling of it being unnatural.

    Game is not a trick men pull on women. It is a trick the pull on themselves to overcome the silly mistakes (that mostly involve, not been themselves) they make with women. It is not a magic solution but is a way to guide them on the work they need to do. We (and here I mean men) get far more guidance on making friends, dealing with neighbors, or working with colleagues then we ever get on dealing with women as potential romantic partners. Game represents that education.

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  334. on March 3, 2009 at 4:17 pm tokyojesusfist

    twiceaday

    This is a huge part of game.

    But it doesn’t negate the harmful aspects of game.

    Most guys have a huge problem acting naturally around women they’re attracted to. Game helps them do it.

    Game is the antithesis of being natural.

    Another big part of game is learning that a sensible, adult woman has very different thought and emotional processes from a sensible, adult man.

    The kind of women usually featured on this blog, and the kind of women that seemingly most men seem to be involved with, are not sensible adult women. I don’t accept their bullshit.

    You just described one. Just because it’s not as detailed as certain types of game and seems natural to you doesn’t make it any less of a method.

    It’s not a method, it’s just a state of being.

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  335. on March 3, 2009 at 4:21 pm Seeking Alpha

    It’s not a method, it’s just a state of being.

    We’ve found Sara’s alter-ego!

    LikeLike


  336. on March 3, 2009 at 4:52 pm xsplat

    Also, I must say this again, play music.

    Absolutely. Unfortunately, that takes talent. Some of us just have it.

    As a kid I used to tinker on my dad’s piano. I learned that I didn’t have talent the day I saw a first year piano student in highschool mess around on the keyboard. He made the keys emote. I made them note.

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  337. on March 3, 2009 at 5:10 pm Rick

    Tokyo:

    Game is a state of being.

    Seeking Alpha:

    Going back to your jobs question – wouldnt you agree that much of the current problem lies in the fact that a huge amount of the managers, salespeople, etc have lost their jobs too? Not sure if you were just being hypothetical or what but just thought I’d chime in.

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  338. on March 3, 2009 at 5:11 pm xsplat

    To get status, a man needs marketable skills and physical presence. You get those things by working out and studying hard from age 16-22

    Ya, or you could, at any time, be a self made entrepreneur.

    College is for those too stupid to figure things out for themselves. A good percentage of wealthy people decided against college. I’d go so far as to say the trule elite, the real mavericks of this world, don’t see much value in it.

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  339. on March 3, 2009 at 5:14 pm tokyojesusfist

    DefaultUser

    Covered in game under things like negs (don’t be a doormat) or Cocky/Funny (Cocky: don’t be a doormat, Funny: but don’t be a douchebag).

    One does not have to be cocky and neg women in order to not be a doormat, and whenever I think of a cocky man who is negging women I get the mental image of complete douchebag.

    Rick

    Game is a state of being.

    It’s not. Game is too deliberate and self-conscious. PUAs are always scheming, plotting and manipulating, or “running game.” They’re unable to be natural and spontaneous.

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  340. on March 3, 2009 at 5:15 pm Seeking Alpha

    Going back to your jobs question – wouldnt you agree that much of the current problem lies in the fact that a huge amount of the managers, salespeople, etc have lost their jobs too? Not sure if you were just being hypothetical or what but just thought I’d chime in

    Well that’s certainly true. Clearly not every sales person, manager, etc. has kept their job. But the question I was trying to get at is whether it would have been higher if the manufacturing was US based.

    In other words, if company XYZ fires 10 sales managers and 100 Chinese workers, is that better than firing 10 sales managers and 40 (higher paid) US workers.

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  341. on March 3, 2009 at 5:17 pm xsplat

    wounded

    But I’m really not sure what men can do in the far more anti-masculine environment of cities.

    There are always ways to step out of the box. Even in New York there are still bohemians. The artist crowds allways have chicks who dig talent over cash. The hippie ethos can never die.

    Or you can always go to another country, where because of your white skin you have high status.

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  342. on March 3, 2009 at 5:17 pm twiceaday

    TJF:
    “But it doesn’t negate the harmful aspects of game.”
    Could you please name at least one specific aspect of game you consider to be harmful?

    “Game is the antithesis of being natural.”
    It’s something you have to learn, so in that sense yes, it’s unnatural. Yet so are language, reading, math, and music, but I don’t see you complaining about those, or any of the other vast number of things people have to learn in order to be a functional adult human being. Why do you consider learning about social interactions to be somehow different?

    “The kind of women usually featured on this blog, and the kind of women that seemingly most men seem to be involved with, are not sensible adult women. I don’t accept their bullshit.”
    What exactly do you mean by sensible? And again, a key aspect of game is to not tolerate bullshit from a woman.

    “It’s not a method, it’s just a state of being.”
    If you’re doing something (such as having a conversation with a woman), there’s a method to it whether you realize it or not.

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  343. on March 3, 2009 at 5:19 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Keith – Thanks for the apology.

    TJF – You say their are women who don’t shit test. You simply don’t understand just what exactly is a shit test.
    All women do it. All. And there is nothing wrong with it, it doesn’t make a woman silly, or immature or stupid.

    Here’s what a PUA who used to run a now-defunct PUA website, the Reality Method, wrote about the shit test.

    The shit test is possibly the most brilliant social weapon women have in their arsenal.

    Also known as a “congruency test”, the shit test is a tool used by women both consciously and unconsciously to “screen” the men they come into contact with into one of two categories: potential friend or potential lover.

    The Evolutionary Underpinnings of the Shit Test
    Women, being blessed with only a limited number of eggs (chances to reproduce) are sexual selectors: they must chose who they will (and will not) sleep with.

    Men, having a basically unlimited number of sperm, ought to try to impregnate as many women as physically possible, in hopes that some of them will bear children.

    Therefore, women are sexually receptive, and men are sexually aggressive. Women get many more offers for sex than men, and must choose which, if any, man she will decide to pair her eggs with in an effort to carry on her genes.

    These evolutionary facts have carried over into modern society and dating despite recent technological advances like condoms and hormonal birth control.

    But condoms and birth control are logical instruments; and choosing a mate is an emotional process for a woman.

    Women, especially attractive women, get plenty of offers for sex – therefore they have learned to put a large part of their “screening” method on autopilot.

    That automatic screening method is the shit test.

    Examples and Logical Structure
    A shit test is a beautiful double-edged sword; or maybe a more apt analogy is a Gordian knot, or the proverbial horns of a dilemma. It is usually phrased as a half statement / half question.

    The most common shit test know to man is:

    Does my bum look big in this?

    Or, in a similar vein,

    I’m fat

    These question/statements have two very specific answers. One can either answer positively or negatively. As in,

    “Yeah, actually, those pants do make your bum look fat.”

    Or,

    “No, honey! Those don’t make you look fat at all.”

    The crux of the dilemma, of course — and what makes shit tests so powerful — is that the girl doing the testing already knows the answer to her question, and therefore, both answers are “wrong”.

    If a girl is asking you if you think she’s fat, or if something makes her LOOK fat, then I will guarantee you that either A) she IS fat, or B) whatever she’s wearing DOES make her look fat.

    If you respond in the positive, and affirm the reality that she already knows to be true, you are an asshole, because you are insulting her (doesn’t matter that she invited you to do so).

    On the other hand, if you DENY the reality that she is / looks fat, you are LYING TO HER FACE. She now knows you cannot be trusted; she sees that you are just trying to pacify her and make her feel good.

    The question arises: “But don’t women just want us to make them feel good, all the time?”

    Yes and no. Women want to feel good, yes; but what makes them feel good is knowing they are attached to a real man, a man with his feet firmly set in reality, a man who can lead them and protect them — a man, in short, who doesn’t pander, doesn’t fear their opinions, and generally makes his own way.

    A man, in short, who won’t lie to them to make them feel good.

    So let’s refine our definition of shit test.

    A screening question or statement the answer to which is already know, that is structured in such a way that answering truthfully will kill the asker’s attraction to you, and answering untruthfully will expose you as a liar for the rest of the conversation.

    This was my “aha!” moment. I spent years failing those shit tests…either I’d tell my wife the truth “Yes, you do look fat in that” or “no, you don’t look fat at all.” Either answer would end up with her upset at me.

    Once I learned about what the hell was going on, I adjusted my responses accordingly, and it literally worked exactly as the Reality Method author advised. I thought my wife was just an increasingly passive-aggressive bitch…but the reality was I was acting like a simpering, accommodating, spineless beta afraid to upset my wife, and always thinking of ways to appease her. In short, I was the thoroughly programmed mangina by a life-time of indoctrination by the feminist memes and cultural cues of our highly-feminized society.

    Reading up on Game, and seeing the truth of it for myself — to use the Matrix allegory — was like taking the Red Pill and waking up to the reality of the world.

    Dougjnn –

    I’m more than a little surprised it worked in an ongoing relationship that had been turning south betatude wise for awhile. Not sure why exactly. Their opinion on such things can certainly go down. Somehow the dynamic of it going way up seems harder — though certainly flirting w/other hot (or hotter) women certainly has a (good) effect if done right.

    Did she know you were learning game when you were in the early stages of it — or only after — or still not? Did you just read up or do a workshop? Did you go through a period of practicing picking up women other than your wife to hone/field test your skills?

    Anyway, I’d love you to tell more along these lines.

    I never bought a book or attended a workshop…and I certainly never told my wife a damn thing about any of this. I just changed my behavior…and it changed our relationship profoundly.

    I simply read my ass off from a wide variety of sources on the internet. The Reality Method, David Deangelo’s website and free e-newsletter, and whatever free youtube vids I could find from Mystery and other assorted PUA acolytes and practitioners.

    And I started applying their methods to my behavior and conversations — the playful teasing, the cocky/funny personality, the backhanded compliments and negs, as well as building tension whenever I chose to seduce my wife, our marriage went from a tension and angst filled relationship of platonic, sexless roommates to a hot and heavy long term affair that is even better than when we first started dating in high school.

    Understanding game also gave me a heightened introspection. I was able to look back on my life with her and realize that in fact I wasn’t a beta ass kissing estrogen-appeaser when we first met.

    The reason we got together in the first place was her friend actually called me up and told me she liked me. She was younger than I, and knowing that she already liked me from afar, I felt like I had the upper hand when I decided to approach her and ask her out. I kind of stumbled into the cocky/arrogant approach just because I knew she already liked me and my chances at being rejected were nil. Prior to that, whenever I saw a girl in high school that I liked, I had the completely fearful beta approach to them – and the corresponding failure rate as well.

    But with my wife, it was different. I lead, she followed.

    So fast forward 6 years of an on again off again relationship and finally marriage when I was 25. From about the first year onward, I fell into complacency and turned into the completely spineless beta. I stopped leading. I started asking her and letting her make all the decisions. I began acting like all the pathetic douchebags that are our cultural role models on the idiot box of tell-a-vision…the “king of queens” and “home improvement” husband who is incompetent and must have his wife rescue him with her superior intellect and kick ass inner goddess attitude that feminism has programmed into most people.

    And in hindsight, I now realize that she began to resent me for it, subconsciously.

    I don’t to this very day believe she consciously understands or realizes how or why we had so much problems, fights and such, or how we were basically sexless, platonic roommates on the path towards divorce.

    The only thing she ever says is that she tells her family/friends that we have a great marriage now, and that we used to “have a lot of problems” but we’ve “overcome them.”

    The reality is, I learned about game, re-attached my balls, and stopped acting like a spineless, incompetent beta.

    I know the truth now…and that is precisely why I am vehement in my defense of “game.” TJF and other assorted skeptics and cynics only have a caricature of “game” that they are attacking. They hate the PUA…probably because they lost a girlfriend or wife to a “jerk.”

    For me, GAME is all about de-programming the male mind from the emasculation that popular culture preaches. It’s about reconnecting with true masculinity to compliment femininity in a relationship…not just the sexual one either. Once your eyes are opened to the truth, you will start to see “GAME” everywhere, in all your relationships with females and in the successful relationships of your friends and family that you know of.

    Girlfriends, acquaintances, my wife’s friends, my friends wives and girlfriends, cousins, sisters, my mother-in-law…I run “game” on all the females in my life to some extent or another. The cocky/arrogant/playful teasing aspects. And I now see it plain as day – the women in my life all enjoy my company. I see it in their eyes and in their smiles or hear it in their voices when I talk with them. From game, I learned how not to be BORING to women.

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  344. on March 3, 2009 at 5:28 pm xsplat

    And – gummint – spelling words snarkily is something intellectually-bankrupt leftists do (i.e. Dubya). Don’t fall down to their level.

    Kudos to you, sir, on your use of NLP type propoganda. Associating concepts that are distinct and don’t belong together, as if they are one smooth whole.

    Well done. THAT IS GAME. Perfect mindfuck. Almost invisible.

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  345. on March 3, 2009 at 5:37 pm Rick

    Tokyo:

    Being ‘unable to be natural and spontaneous’ is the opposite of what Game advocates. As others have suggested, learning to attract women, or fuck, just simply flirt with them (which is basically all we are talking about) is a learned skill. It comes more naturally to some, but if you are interested in having sex with attractive females, you will be much more successful if you learn at least some basic principles of game.

    SA:

    Oh ok. Thats an interesting question, that of course has broader implications. I guess I would agree with the idea that there would be many more unemployed if more manufacturing jobs were in the US, but I think its tough to argue that we are better off without those jobs in the first place. Not only do I think we should not promote basically slave labor – even if that person would love that job, given their living conditions — but I think our goal should be to get those jobs back to america.

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  346. on March 3, 2009 at 5:40 pm xsplat

    DFH

    For me, GAME is all about de-programming the male mind from the emasculation that popular culture preaches.

    I started to deprogram simply from living in countries that are not feminized.

    Women demand that you take the lead here. None of this silly “equality” bullshit.

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  347. on March 3, 2009 at 5:52 pm xsplat

    but I think our goal should be to get those jobs back to america.

    Having a trade deficit is not sustainable. Meaning, it must eventually either be paid, or defaulted on.

    It is not going to be paid. It can’t be paid.

    Walmart will no longer carry wrenches made in China.

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  348. on March 3, 2009 at 5:53 pm xsplat

    You can’t pay a trade deficit with T bills forever.

    And people have stopped buying US T bills.

    You guys still have no concept of the nature of your crash.

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  349. on March 3, 2009 at 5:56 pm xsplat

    You guys don’t even realize that your banks are about to start failing.

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  350. on March 3, 2009 at 6:04 pm xsplat

    Let those obeisant meat-puppets have their misplaced sense of purpose — they will never touch Nirvana. They don’t deserve it anyway, because they don’t even know what it is. For them, sex is an act of masturbation. This is really the definition of a beta: an Onanist.

    Welmer, you are a poet. I name you as kindred.

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  351. on March 3, 2009 at 6:10 pm xsplat

    I wonder if pick up artists consider an aspect of game that I find key. It’s a magic in the eye. A certain look. Call is mesmerism.

    You can fix someone in the eye and totally blow them away.

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  352. on March 3, 2009 at 6:12 pm xsplat

    And there are other PUA games that I don’t hear of much. The most very subtle arts of chi-kung. The most subtle listening into and pervading into and dancing with a womans energies.

    Game. Talking isn’t game.

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  353. on March 3, 2009 at 6:24 pm tokyojesusfist

    twiceaday

    Could you please name at least one specific aspect of game you consider to be harmful?

    Game is bad for sincere relationships, and turns its practitioner into a robot.

    Why do you consider learning about social interactions to be somehow different?

    Game is not strictly about learning social interaction. It’s more than that.

    What exactly do you mean by sensible?

    A sensible woman does not conduct childish shit tests. A sensible woman does not choose (or abandon) her mate based on ridiculously arbitrary and meaningless criteria. A sensible woman chooses her mate based on who she thinks she might be happy with, and not on who has the highest status (which may or may not actually translate to anything useful). A sensible woman does not immediately lose confidence in his mate when he says “I dunno, where do you want eat tonight?” A sensible woman is capable of self-control and clear thinking, and is not at the mercy of a constantly fluctuating emotional state. A sensible woman is not swayed by game.

    And again, a key aspect of game is to not tolerate bullshit from a woman.

    That’s a PUA delusion. PUAs appear to be aware of all the bullshit, yet they accept it anyway. Despite all the complaining they do, they still go back for more. If they truly did not accept bullshit, they would refuse to associate with bullshit women. At least “betas” have the excuse of apparently not understanding what’s happening.

    Dave from Hawaii

    Here’s what a PUA who used to run a now-defunct PUA website, the Reality Method, wrote about the shit test.

    If that’s supposed to convince me that shit tests are not silly, immature and stupid, it isn’t working.

    In the example provided, the woman is just trying to cause drama and put the man in an awkward position for shits and giggles. If she thinks she looks fat but doesn’t want anyone to say so, she shouldn’t fucking ask. She also has no definitive way of knowing what the man really thinks. Maybe he is just being polite, or maybe he really does think that she looks fine. Women often have body image issues so they may not be able to evaluate their own appearance in any objective capacity.

    I would never, ever want to be with a woman like that.

    Once I learned about what the hell was going on, I adjusted my responses accordingly, and it literally worked exactly as the Reality Method author advised.

    This is what I mean when I say that PUAs (or people who practise game) accept bullshit behavior. You know what’s going on, yet you still put up with it.

    They hate the PUA…probably because they lost a girlfriend or wife to a “jerk.”

    If I had a girlfriend and lost her to a PUA, it would only prove that she wasn’t the kind of person I want to be with.

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  354. on March 3, 2009 at 6:39 pm DefaultUser

    To: tokyojesusfist

    One does not have to be cocky and neg women in order to not be a doormat, and whenever I think of a cocky man who is negging women I get the mental image of complete douchebag.

    As a note, I hate the term “Cock/Funny,” but it is neat shorthand.

    Cocky/Funny is basically how men converse with each other. Men tend to use a lot of teasing and banter. It is a masculine way of communicating, we are not sharing feelings, just verbally sparring. It is not intended to hurt or demean the other person; it is a mild level of friendly competition.

    Women like Cocky/Funny (from a man) precisely because it is a masculine way of communicating. She can get all the touchy-feely/go along-to-get-along stuff from her friends. For her, this is different, it is exciting, and it reassures her that she is talking to a man.

    In the same way that men know that the conversational jousting is not a real fight, she knows this is not really an attack or put down. However, she can bathe in the masculine energy that this more “aggressive” conversational style exudes. This is something she cannot get from her female friends.

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  355. on March 3, 2009 at 6:42 pm Gunslingergregi

    This is the shit Tokyo just proved that game works on men and woman he is negging everyone not responding and they are eating it up because he also gives them some attention.

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  356. on March 3, 2009 at 6:48 pm omw

    Shit testing in marriage is more subtle than even that, though.

    Recent example: Husband goes on business trip, calls me to tell me he’s working next door to an almost completely Hispanic high school.

    (Him, matter-of-fact) “You’ve never seen so many Hispanics in one place in all your life.”

    (Me, giving him shit) “You mean, you’ve never seen so many hot blooded 15-year-old Latinas in all your life, right?”

    (Him, deadpan) “You know how much I love the ladies below legal driving age. Once they start driving, it’s easier for them to run away.”

    Depressing answers to my ridiculous question would include “No! No! That’s not what I meant!” or “Baby, don’t be jealous…” or “What?”

    See? It would suck all the fun out. I would quit teasing him, he would quit teasing me, and we’d be soberly sleeping in separate bedrooms by the end of the year.

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  357. on March 3, 2009 at 6:48 pm Dave from Hawaii

    If that’s supposed to convince me that shit tests are not silly, immature and stupid, it isn’t working.

    In the example provided, the woman is just trying to cause drama and put the man in an awkward position for shits and giggles. If she thinks she looks fat but doesn’t want anyone to say so, she shouldn’t fucking ask. She also has no definitive way of knowing what the man really thinks. Maybe he is just being polite, or maybe he really does think that she looks fine. Women often have body image issues so they may not be able to evaluate their own appearance in any objective capacity.

    I would never, ever want to be with a woman like that.

    If you’ve had a relationship with a female, you’ve been shit tested. Just because you refuse to recognize it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I think you are talking out of your ass here and have never been in a real relationship with a female, or you have no idea what goes on when you are talking to a woman you are sexually involved with.

    What’s so crazy or immature about this idea that women have a subconscious desire to screen or “test” their potential mates?

    Once you recognize just what a congruence test is, or ‘shit’ test, you WILL recognize it from women. It’s a part of the feminine psyche, and it’s a perfectly rational explanation for how and why they do it.

    BTW – you’re implying that my wife is silly or immature or dumb.

    You can kindly fuck off.

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  358. on March 3, 2009 at 6:53 pm xsplat

    In the same way that men know that the conversational jousting is not a real fight, she knows this is not really an attack or put down.

    Ya, but adjustments must be made in real time, based on reactions. Some people are more or less sensitive.

    For me, I find brit billiard playing football loving hooligans to be insufferable. Brutish. Not funny.

    They find me over sensitive.

    Same for a girl. You have to watch her reactions.

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  359. on March 3, 2009 at 6:54 pm twiceaday

    TJF:
    “Game is bad for sincere relationships, and turns its practitioner into a robot.”
    How, specifically, is game bad for “sincere” relationships? How, specifically, does it turn its practitioners into robots?

    “Game is not strictly about learning social interaction. It’s more than that.”
    True, it’s also about learning how to manage interpersonal relationships, how to better yourself, and generally how to get the most out of life. Why again do you consider that to be unnatural?

    “A sensible woman does not conduct childish shit tests. A sensible woman does not choose (or abandon) her mate based on ridiculously arbitrary and meaningless criteria. A sensible woman chooses her mate based on who she thinks she might be happy with, and not on who has the highest status (which may or may not actually translate to anything useful). A sensible woman does not immediately lose confidence in his mate when he says “I dunno, where do you want eat tonight?” A sensible woman is capable of self-control and clear thinking, and is not at the mercy of a constantly fluctuating emotional state. A sensible woman is not swayed by game.”
    IOW, a sensible woman wants a beta provider. This is, in a sense, quite true; a sensible woman in her late 20s should look to snag the best beta she can, since her market value is about to start declining rapidly. Of course, this sensible woman will also look elsewhere to fulfill her sexual needs, since attraction didn’t manage to make your list of qualities a sensible woman looks for in a mate. Have fun raising another man’s children.

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  360. on March 3, 2009 at 6:58 pm xsplat

    Oh, this is the definition of nuance. The crux of game.

    You watch a girls reactions, not to make her smile. Sometimes it’s best to make her cry. You watch them to see her interest.

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  361. on March 3, 2009 at 7:00 pm Dave from Hawaii

    OMW – right on the money.

    TJF – “A sensible woman is capable of self-control and clear thinking, and is not at the mercy of a constantly fluctuating emotional state.”

    It’s all so clear now….

    You’ve never lived with a woman.

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  362. on March 3, 2009 at 7:04 pm xsplat

    (Him, deadpan) “You know how much I love the ladies below legal driving age. Once they start driving, it’s easier for them to run away.”

    kudos on all of you.

    Yes, your husband deserves to be fucked.

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  363. on March 3, 2009 at 7:05 pm tokyojesusfist

    omw

    Shit testing in marriage is more subtle than even that, though.

    Your example is an obvious joke. I guess you could even call it a neg.

    Dave from Hawaii

    If you’ve had a relationship with a female, you’ve been shit tested. Just because you refuse to recognize it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I think you are talking out of your ass here and have never been in a real relationship with a female, or you have no idea what goes on when you are talking to a woman you are sexually involved with.

    I reject shit tests. Such childish stupidity has no place in my life. And where did I say that shit tests don’t exist?

    What’s so crazy or immature about this idea that women have a subconscious desire to screen or “test” their potential mates?

    The example you provided has nothing to do with testing or screening. It’s just a stupid headgame intended to cause drama. If I wanted to test/screen a woman, I would simply try to get to know her. I would also concentrate on practical matters like shared values and whether or not she likes to drink and so forth, instead of presenting her with stupid trick questions that serve no real purpose. I expect similiar behavior from women.

    BTW – you’re implying that my wife is silly or immature or dumb.

    Yes.

    twiceaday

    True, it’s also about learning how to manage interpersonal relationships, how to better yourself, and generally how to get the most out of life. Why again do you consider that to be unnatural?

    Game teaches you to be insincere and manipulative, and to treat women as objects. It teaches you to consider human interaction in terms of methods and routines.

    IOW, a sensible woman wants a beta provider.

    No. That’s cold, calculating behavior. As I said, a sensible woman wants a person with whom she can be sincerely happy with.

    Of course, this sensible woman will also look elsewhere to fulfill her sexual needs, since attraction didn’t manage to make your list of qualities a sensible woman looks for in a mate

    You don’t think mutual attractiveness is a component of a happy relationship?

    Have fun raising another man’s children.

    I’m never getting children.

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  364. on March 3, 2009 at 7:07 pm tokyojesusfist

    [PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE TROLL. -mgmt]

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  365. on March 3, 2009 at 7:07 pm xsplat

    DFH

    It’s all so clear now….

    You’ve never lived with a woman.

    That’s why he has never needed to find a sense of humor.

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  366. on March 3, 2009 at 7:16 pm xsplat

    tokyojesusfist

    [PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE TROLL. -mgmt]

    Meditation doesn’t work like that. You can’t fight your inner demons. just let them wash by, like leaves on a stream.

    Same as TJF. Ignoring him means being disinterested.

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  367. on March 3, 2009 at 7:18 pm Dave from Hawaii

    The example you provided has nothing to do with testing or screening. It’s just a stupid headgame intended to cause drama. If I wanted to test/screen a woman, I would simply try to get to know her. I would also concentrate on practical matters like shared values and whether or not she likes to drink and so forth, instead of presenting her with stupid trick questions that serve no real purpose. I expect similiar behavior from women.

    “Shit tests” are not about YOU screening a woman, dumbass.

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  368. on March 3, 2009 at 7:19 pm Dave from Hawaii

    I’m done feeding the troll.

    My bad.

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  369. on March 3, 2009 at 7:21 pm tokyojesusfist

    Why was my comment deleted, and on what do you base the accusation that I’m trolling?

    [editor: your trolling is self-evident. nearly every comment of yours fulfills the three primary criteria for troll designation: you’re a broken record, you don’t argue in good faith, you’re dull.]

    In this case it makes no difference whether or not I’ve lived with a woman. It’s irrelevant.

    [you write like someone who has less experience with real live women than with anime fantasies.]

    I think a sensible woman needs to have certain qualities in order to qualify as a sensible woman, and that’s that.

    [there he stands: principled but celibate.]

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  370. on March 3, 2009 at 7:24 pm tokyojesusfist

    Dave from Hawaii

    “Shit tests” are not about YOU screening a woman, dumbass.

    Did I say it is? No, I did not. I did, however, say how I would handle the situation, and then I said that I expect a woman to do the same.

    And again, shit tests have nothing to do with screening. You keep saying they do, but where’s the evidence? The example you yourself provided has nothing to do with screening.

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  371. on March 3, 2009 at 7:51 pm dougjnn

    Dave From Hawaii–

    That post addressed to me is truly great. I think it may be the best comment I’ve ever read at this site. I nominated another great comment as post of the month, but this one kicks it for sure. Thank you for taking the time.

    Two other questions. One is, do you think it would be an advantage to subtly hint to your wife that it was stuff she was doing wrong before but you were able to get her to stop doing, that made the difference? Maybe that would be counter productive. I sure know “women’s relationship game” does this all the time. But I know I hate it too, and see through it. But I’ve always been naturally like that. Maybe it’s best to leave well enough alone and leave it a mystery to her.

    The second one is, if you wanted to down the road, do you think you could get away with just sex (or not much more than sex) cheating if it was discovered? Get away that is in the sense of not only avoid divorce but also avoid too much extended drama or sexless cold shoulder, etc. He sure does claim or hint from time to time that game’s gonna allow him to do it, at least with the right woman, the kind he’d settle down with. Could go get to open with rules? Rules being designed to reduce the chances, and absolutely stop, any sex play that the other partner thought was leading to strong feelings, with that other partner having the absolute say so?

    Anyway, a really great comment. I’d like to read more about long term relationship / marriage game.

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  372. on March 3, 2009 at 8:02 pm xsplat

    Those that are anti game cosider the casting couch an anomaly.

    They think it weird.

    They think real girls wouldn’t fuck the producer, or at least his gilr would not, or if she did, she was a bad girl.

    Men wish for romance as stupidly as do boy band loving pre-teens.

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  373. on March 3, 2009 at 8:31 pm Dave from Hawaii

    do you think it would be an advantage to subtly hint to your wife that it was stuff she was doing wrong before but you were able to get her to stop doing, that made the difference? Maybe that would be counter productive. I sure know “women’s relationship game” does this all the time. But I know I hate it too, and see through it. But I’ve always been naturally like that. Maybe it’s best to leave well enough alone and leave it a mystery to her.

    That’s entirely a feminine thing…women are the gender that practices the compilation and maintenance of a mental checklist of all your past errors and her grievances….both petty and significant. What she remembers most is how you made her FEEL.

    In fact, that’s what a typical fight between us used to consist of: she drops an innocuous “shit test,” I fail it miserably, she gets irritated, I get mad at her irritation than she hauls out the checklist of past grievances. Rinse, lather and repeat…all the way to divorce court.

    I had to break the destructive cycle of our relationship’s negative dynamic…and I did. Why would I want to get back into that?

    if you wanted to down the road, do you think you could get away with just sex (or not much more than sex) cheating if it was discovered? Get away that is in the sense of not only avoid divorce but also avoid too much extended drama or sexless cold shoulder, etc. He sure does claim or hint from time to time that game’s gonna allow him to do it, at least with the right woman, the kind he’d settle down with. Could go get to open with rules? Rules being designed to reduce the chances, and absolutely stop, any sex play that the other partner thought was leading to strong feelings, with that other partner having the absolute say so?

    I won’t chance it. I do truly love my wife, and she’s really good to me. But even if I were tempted to, we’ve been married for 10 years now… I’d rather not tempt my fate with an angry, jilted wife wielding the power of the Divorce Court system to get back at me. I think after 10 years, in our no-fault divorce state, I could be forced to pay alimony for the rest of my life…

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  374. on March 3, 2009 at 8:36 pm David Alexander

    Develop interest that will be interesting to others.

    What if mainstream and normal interests aren’t interesting to me?

    College is for those too stupid to figure things out for themselves.

    College is also for those who are smart enough to realize that they have no chance at running a successful business, and just prefer the chance for a relatively stable pay check.

    One does not have to be cocky and neg women in order to not be a doormat, and whenever I think of a cocky man who is negging women I get the mental image of complete douchebag.

    Admittedly, I share some of this viewpoint. There has to be a way where one can say no, but without insults.

    I was acting like a simpering, accommodating, spineless beta afraid to upset my wife

    The problem is that some of us act in this way because we’ve seen the effects first or second hand of people who weren’t afraid to induce anger in another person, and they ended up in some type of trouble. So for some of us, it’s just easier to avoid upsetting people, and build support that way. Appeasement is an escape route that lets you live another day.

    Women demand that you take the lead here. None of this silly “equality” bullshit.

    As I’ve stated, I hate that because she’ll bitch and pout if things go wrong. I’d rather have the option to blame her if something fucks up.

    Depressing answers to my ridiculous question would include “No! No! That’s not what I meant!” or “Baby, don’t be jealous…” or “What?”

    I actually find the fact that you find these answers to be somewhat depressing. The so-called “beta” answers seem equally valid choices to answering your question.

    You’ve never lived with a woman.

    Other than non-date girlfriend who scares me at times, I’d argue that my female friends have self-control and are capable of clear thinking, and that Wellesley Queen is considerably smarter than me…

    Those that are anti game cosider the casting couch an anomaly.

    I’m de facto anti-game, but it makes a lot of sense that women would want to sleep with a producer.

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  375. on March 3, 2009 at 8:58 pm dougjnn

    Dave from Hawaii–

    Again some really great and wise responses.

    But ….

    “I’d rather not tempt my fate with an angry, jilted wife wielding the power of the Divorce Court system to get back at me. I think after 10 years, in our no-fault divorce state, I could be forced to pay alimony for the rest of my life…”

    Doesn’t this make the very act of marriage, under such a legal regime, a very beta act? Maybe a very, very beta act?

    To give such unilateral power? You don’t have remotely that kind of divorce law power over her if she decides to cheat, do you? No matter how humiliatingly, how frequently, or how emotionally seriously? No matter what, am I correct?

    Game solves some, but hardly all, of the reigning feminist cultural and legal oppression of males in the Anglosphere, and America worst of all (with the UK a close second, and in a few ways worse).

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  376. on March 3, 2009 at 9:05 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Doesn’t this make the very act of marriage, under such a legal regime, a very beta act? Maybe a very, very beta act?

    Not just beta…but a potential financial and emotional suicide. I know one thing is for sure, should something happen to my wife and I, I would NEVER get re-married, now that I know exactly how the system is set up.

    One thing is for certain…one of the reasons why I read constantly about game is because I’m in the financial position where I HAVE to make it work with my wife.

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  377. on March 3, 2009 at 9:19 pm xsplat

    …Court system to get back at me. I think after 10 years, in our no-fault divorce state, I could be forced to pay alimony for the rest of my life…

    Unless you bailed upon your country.

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  378. on March 3, 2009 at 9:55 pm Sara I

    defaultuser

    I think many players/PUAs are true to themselves. They really are sensation seeking hedonists. It is precisly these qualities that make them seem exciting to women.

    Sensation seekers eventually become desensitized, and a desensitized person is basically dull and worthless. You say these players are “true to themselves” but their true selves are not sensation seekers as they find out later on in life that they were basically wasting their lives in mindless sensation seeking. The ridiculous rappers are great examples of that to an extreme. I enjoy a good rap song, but I sure as hell do not admire their lives. Most people who listen to rap find it’s so bad it’s good. They are being laughed AT. Maybe PUA’s are a different breed, but not much different.

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  379. on March 3, 2009 at 10:12 pm Sara I

    DefaultUser

    The problem most “betas” is that they project an asexual vibe. They lack the confidence or comfort in their own sexuality. No woman can be attracted to such a man.

    Will there be hot women on that Alaska cruise?

    Omigod, a live one! I agree that women aren’t attracted to men who lack confidence in their sexuality and they are attracted to men who are. I had a lot of experience with one man in particular who was uber-confident in his sexuality, but personally was a nightmare. There are all types out there and he was the type who used game and his sexuality as a mask for insecurity. It took me a long time to figure it out, not that I am without fault of course. Because of him, I am immune to game and seduction in general. I’d rather be alone if that’s the only other choice, but I doubt it is.

    I have one friend who is very happily married and she might be on that Alaskan cruise with her husband. He did NOT use game, but was indeed persistent. He knew what he wanted–HER-and refused to take no for an answer. She didn’t like him at first because he had a goofy sense of humor, but come to find out he was quite different than she imagined. They are both “themselves” with each other and isn’t that what we ALL want? Someone we can really be ourselves with? Otherwise, what is the point?

    I have no doubt there will be hot, uninhibited, adventurous women on that cruise. If I were you, I’d go and leave the puas of the world behind. They think they are the bomb and in reality they just bomb over and over again, because they’re not intelligent enough to think outside the PUA box.

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  380. on March 3, 2009 at 10:19 pm Welmer

    Nope. Waste of time and energy. The bitch is fired.

    Here is a point you seem to be overlooking: men judge women by looks; women judge men by status. To get status, a man needs marketable skills and physical presence. You get those things by working out and studying hard from age 16-22 +/-. Now if you want, you can spend that time playing the bohemian schtick and banging similarly naive females but when the student aid runs out or mom and dad kick you out of the basement, you will need a job to put cash in your pocket, some nice clothes on your back, and a decent crib to take women home to. Clueless 19-yo’s don’t mind screwing on futons without sheets; 20-somethings in the 7+ range who are sizing a man up for his genetics do.

    This ain’t the 1960’s, ya clueless hippie.

    You’re just an asshole.

    Are you an attorney, by any chance?

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  381. on March 3, 2009 at 11:15 pm Keith

    “Does my bum look big in this?”

    My rule – Go over the top.

    “I’m so glad you said something, honey! Your ass looks fucking huge in that!”

    Then laugh

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  382. on March 4, 2009 at 12:29 am dougjnn

    Keith–

    “Does my bum look big in this?”

    My rule – Go over the top.

    My rule: tell your truth. Playfully.

    E.g.:

    You DO have a big hum baby. I like it. It’s not TOO big. Wiggle it for me. Such a hot baby. (Caressing and then lightly smacking it. Maybe slowly goosing her some.)

    Note, the it’s not too big thing is a neg.

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  383. on March 4, 2009 at 12:41 am Vladimir

    Seeking Alpha:

    Vladmir – If he drops a book, are more or less people going to read it because of his increased posting on the blog lately?

    I think he’s actually making a mistake by posting way too many comments. With the character he’s building, he should write only rare, unpredictable, short comments, and completely ignore what other people say back. He should engage in exchanges of opinion only with the blog owner, and keep even that communication parsimonious.

    This way, he devalues his character by obsessively posting dozens of comments a day and engaging in squabbles with run-of-the-mill blogroaches. This badly contradicts the persona he’s trying to portray, not only by showing that he cares about what random losers think, but also by indicating that he’s spending countless hours a day slouching in front of a monitor rather than jet-setting.

    Come to think of it, all this is not unlike certain basic principles of game. If he wants to build an intriguing online persona that might draw enough interest to make the enterprise profitable, drowning blogs in countless comments is the wrong way to go.

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  384. on March 4, 2009 at 12:45 am Gord

    I’ve always done pretty well with women, usually scoring 7s to 8.5s but I think drugs are a much more enjoyable weekend hobby? I noticed my drug use has an inverse relationship with my desire to pick up girls. As a matter of fact, there’s been nights that I could have went home with a 7 or 8 when I decided to go “hang out” until 10AM in the morning using cemicals.

    What’s it mean that I enjoy recreational drugs more than recreational sex with 7’s and 8’s? And remember that this is coming from someone who really had little trouble with scoring.

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  385. on March 4, 2009 at 3:49 am Hysteria

    I really enjoy reading this blog–especially all of the comments–but I must say that tokyojesusfist is the most boring person ever. While his contrarian opinions could be beneficial to the discussion, the robotic, half-assed delivery and complete lack of humor, emotion, or creativity renders them hollow. Reading it is misery, though I imagine it’s worse in person.

    Sensibility? We’re talking about people, not the relative cost-benefit of name- vs. store-branded toilet paper. A person who lists their primary criterion for selecting a mate as sensibility is either completely hopeless or simply doesn’t know what they want.

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  386. on March 4, 2009 at 8:28 am Kick a Bitch

    wow, don’t feed the trolls you fucking morons

    seriously, are you all that stupid that you fall into this idiot’s traps THAT easily?

    welcome to the internet fucktards

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  387. on March 4, 2009 at 9:02 am tokyojesusfist

    Hysteria

    Sensibility? We’re talking about people, not the relative cost-benefit of name- vs. store-branded toilet paper. A person who lists their primary criterion for selecting a mate as sensibility is either completely hopeless or simply doesn’t know what they want.

    Did you even read anything I wrote? I clearly explained in detail what “sensibility” means to me.

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  388. on March 4, 2009 at 9:53 am Wounded Animal

    Welmer,

    Go back to college and take a course in logic. The ability to put together a coherent and correct syllogism is a valuable life skill.

    And yes, I’m an attorney. (See preceding paragraph).

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  389. on March 4, 2009 at 11:35 am DefaultUser

    To: Sara I

    Sensation seekers eventually become desensitized, and a desensitized person is basically dull and worthless. You say these players are “true to themselves” but their true selves are not sensation seekers as they find out later on in life that they were basically wasting their lives in mindless sensation seeking. The ridiculous rappers are great examples of that to an extreme. I enjoy a good rap song, but I sure as hell do not admire their lives. Most people who listen to rap find it’s so bad it’s good. They are being laughed AT. Maybe PUA’s are a different breed, but not much different.

    Note: I use the terms “sensation seeking” and “security seeking” as a shorthand for two ends of a continuum of preferences. On average we are all average, and thus will fall somewhere in between. However, some people will fall at end or the other.

    “Sensation seekers eventually become desensitized”
    That is a bit like saying that more cautious security seeking types will find out that they wasted their life due to their lack of experience, that the constant search for security may make a person become dull and worthless. While you may not admire the lives of rappers or PUAs (“mindless hedonism”) they may not admire yours (“lack of adventure”).

    The mistake we all make is in assuming that which makes us happy will make others happy as well. The rapper/PUA type cannot understand how someone would like just “one good girl” in his life. The security seeking type cannot see the joy in endless one-night stands. Neither is wrong.

    Most people “grow” with age. They develop and explore parts of their character previously unvisited. The sensation seeker may read more books, cut down on the drink, and seek more stable relationships. The security seeker may try new things, visit new places, and take up new hobbies. However, their basic preferences will not change. While some sensation seekers may burn out, it is not clear to me that is a given (just as not all security seekers will fall into a life of ever decreasing circles).

    The problem is that many men act out as sensation seekers because film, TV, and forums like this can make it look “cool.” To that extent I agree that some PUAs may be unhappy and not true to themselves. However, it is not certain that all (or even most) are unhappy or untrue to themselves.

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  390. on March 4, 2009 at 12:14 pm DefaultUser

    to: Sara I

    … I agree that women aren’t attracted to men who lack confidence in their sexuality and they are attracted to men who are. I had a lot of experience with one man in particular who was uber-confident in his sexuality, but personally was a nightmare. There are all types out there and he was the type who used game and his sexuality as a mask for insecurity…

    I was not trying to say that confidence in his own sexuality and masculinity is the only thing, merely that it is one thing.

    If I were you, I’d go and leave the puas of the world behind. They think they are the bomb and in reality they just bomb over and over again, because they’re not intelligent enough to think outside the PUA box.

    As I have said before, I do not take game (or any comments here) too literally. But, discussions of the dynamics of male/female attraction are interesting.

    Your reply seems to indicate that you think I am a PUA or player wannabe. I am not, nor do I play one on the Internet. Discussions on game provide me a fun intellectual outlet, and a practical means for understanding and improving on my interaction with women. I found I was doing some things right (bantering humor) and some things wrong (the “whatever you want honey” trap).

    I use discussions like those here, as a way of building a framework on which I hang my own personality. I am not going to take up smoking, ride a Harley, carry round an drawing pad, or perform magic tricks, just because I am told these things work for others. If I do those things it will because I have developed a taste for smoking, Harleys, magic, or drawing (actually I do some painting, but not while posing in coffee shops). I am certainly not going to blacken my girl’s eyes, get arrested, or start fights just to appear more “alpha.” In other words I can discuss game without becoming, or feeling the need to become, a player.

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  391. on March 4, 2009 at 2:31 pm Sara I

    Default User

    I get that you are different than the “norm” here. I think after a while you may find this place less than useful, but that’s just my opinion. Personally I get nothing of value from this blog and it’s basically a distraction and waste of time. AT best it amuses me, and I have a little ego rush or think I’m actually “helping” someone, but I doubt it.

    I get what you’re saying about security seekers and sensation seekers. The ex-lover I spoke of was BOTH. Talk about fucked up. For more information check out: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeSix.asp

    I’m into all kinds of what some people might to refer to either in a positive or negative way; higher knowledge. The enneagram is the most useful tool I know of as far as understanding yourself and other’s behavior.

    H, in his extremely limited worldview generalizes way more than is intelligent dividing the world into two groups constantly, of course MEN and WOMEN being the biggest. The enneagram leaves out gender almost 100% and in my opinion is much more useful. It’s also complex and I doubt he could even understand it. *smirk*

    P.S. He keeps me around for the abuse because it satisfies his deep need for punishment, but I”m not seriously abusive. All in good fun.

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  392. on March 4, 2009 at 2:54 pm DefaultUser

    Sara I

    I get that you are different than the “norm” here.

    Hey! Is that a neg? 🙂

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  393. on March 4, 2009 at 3:51 pm DefaultUser

    Sara I

    I took the quick test from you linked site. It told me that:

    Probabilities for Your Type
    One of these three types
    is most probably your type 3, 4, 5

    These types have a lower
    probability of being your type 1, 8, 9

    These types have a low
    probability of being your type 2, 6, 7

    Which they describe as:

    Type Three: The Achiever
    The Success-Oriented, Efficient Type: Adaptive, Excelling, Driven, and Image-Conscious

    Threes are self-assured, attractive, and charming. Ambitious, competent, and energetic, they can also be status-conscious and highly driven for advancement. They are diplomatic and poised, but can also be overly concerned with their image and what others think of them. They typically have problems with workaholism and competitiveness. At their Best: self-accepting, authentic, everything they seem to be-role models who inspire others.

    Type Four: The Individualist
    The Sensitive, Introspective Type: Expressive, Dramatic, Self-Absorbed, and Temperamental

    Fours are self-aware, sensitive, and reserved. They are emotionally honest, creative, and personal, but can also be moody and self-conscious. Withholding themselves from others due to feeling vulnerable and defective, they can also feel disdainful and exempt from ordinary ways of living. They typically have problems with melancholy, self-indulgence, and self-pity. At their Best: inspired and highly creative, they are able to renew themselves and transform their experiences.

    Type Five: The Investigator
    The Intense, Cerebral Type: Perceptive, Innovative, Secretive, and Isolated

    Fives are alert, insightful, and curious. They are able to concentrate and focus on developing complex ideas and skills. Independent, innovative, and inventive, they can also become preoccupied with their thoughts and imaginary constructs. They become detached, yet high-strung and intense. They typically have problems with eccentricity, nihilism, and isolation. At their Best: visionary pioneers, often ahead of their time, and able to see the world in an entirely new way.

    My guess is I am a mixture of Five and Four with a bit of Three. A mixture of nutty professor (five), soulful artist (four), with a high degree of achievement orientation (three). While I enjoy intellectual or philosophical pursuits, I do not want to live the life of an academic or a poet. I enjoy more mercantile uses of my talents. I once described myself as a “quiet rebel,” I am not overly concerned with society’s judgment but won’t go around smashing windows or throwing punches to prove my point.

    And you thought your ex-lover was mixed up!

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  394. on March 4, 2009 at 8:09 pm dougjnn

    Sara I

    DefaultUser

    The problem most “betas” is that they project an asexual vibe. They lack the confidence or comfort in their own sexuality. No woman can be attracted to such a man.

    Will there be hot women on that Alaska cruise?

    Omigod, a live one! I agree that women aren’t attracted to men who lack confidence in their sexuality and they are attracted to men who are.

    Only partly right. Your insight and self knowledge is only partially correct, as is true of most people, and especially most women. Most of all hotter but not so brainy or introspective women. Like you.

    Betas do project an asexual vibe. That’s partly due to repression, from a combo of feminist cultural conditioning and long experience with weak efforts being swatted down by women in history, and partly due to lower levels of T and mental sexual energy as well. Sexual imagination and so on. Though that varies a lot.

    But it’s not just about lack of confidence. Yes that’s there but it’s only part of it and it’s a whitewash. It’s about lack of confidence in his ability to project and carry out sexual dominance. That’s the core nub.

    Now don’t get me wrong. Women want sexual dominance but not all or even most women want that in extreme doses to the exclusion of all else, even for a sex tryst only. Most women want at least somewhat playful including mind playful sexual dominance for example, as opposed to the dump grunting kind (which excludes more than a few black guys for many white women for example).

    What they DO want is enough.

    Though they usually don’t know it and very often vehemently deny it. Especially your generation denied it.

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  395. on March 4, 2009 at 9:19 pm DefaultUser

    dougjnn

    Most of what you quoted was my orginal comment that Sara I was replying to.

    In any case, I mostly agree with your description.

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  396. on March 4, 2009 at 10:40 pm xsplat

    Does my bum look big in this?”

    Don’t bother me, I’m busy.

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  397. on October 4, 2009 at 2:45 am crispy_crab

    This article was quite enjoyable.. well up until the end where you stopped making much sense.

    It is true that women don’t want dweebs,; the ones that run chicks off when they are ‘themselves’ but if you do run ‘game’ then it will end up not working out relationship wise in the end anyways.
    I assume this is just about getting into their holes htough.

    If I am undertanding this correctly, these women were at work in the bar while the guys tried their stupid chit chat on them.
    Of course they tried to be polite about it, as they were at work.
    Probably didn’t want to get screwed on tips too since they are taxed on tips they didn’t even make, so whenever awaitress doesn’t get tipped she actually is traxed on it anyways.

    ‘I want as many men as possible to feel comfortable embracing the butt pirate lifestyle and thus removing themselves from hetero circulation.’
    I lvoed that and I agree with it very much.
    I am a female, but I wish that all ‘how are you’ers and ugly guys would go gay and piss off thus leaving only fun guys to mate and fill the world with better genes.

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  398. on December 28, 2010 at 2:14 pm driftwood

    Chit chat isn’t antigame. Suplicating is antigame. And these guys’ problem isn’t that they are being themselves too much or being honest too much. Their problem is that they don’t even know what game is. They show up to the ball park and they have no idea what the rules of the ball game are.

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  399. on January 21, 2011 at 3:25 am jman

    How do you avoid chit-chat game? I’m ok at body language and if i can get a conversation rolling my game is ok but how do you avoid chit-chat when you hit that empty place in the pick up

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  400. on January 21, 2011 at 5:00 am walawala

    jman

    I’ve found two things work:

    1) Check out “The Cube”—the absolute fool-proof way to get any girl interested in what you have to say. Go to the various blogs that describe it. Keep it simple and it’s gold.

    2) Failing that, then when I feel the situation waning, I just eject by number closing, saying I’m busy and getting out of there so I’m not lingering or hanging around and losing attraction.

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  401. on January 21, 2011 at 8:23 am green player

    Being yourself is a bit of a joke anyways, as we are little more than our accumulated experiences. We don’t really have too many original ideas individually, just the revised ideas of others.

    LikeLike


  402. on January 23, 2011 at 3:30 pm jman

    thanks walawala, ill check that out

    LikeLike



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