Commenter Max from Australia made the following observation about Brad Pitt:
Brad Pitt has been totally “pwned” by marriage, he should be the happiest dude in the world, loaded and with great looks. But look at a recent photo, the spark in his eyes has died. In his head the mantra is “get me out of here…get me out of here “.
He’s been cuckolded into looking after 4 kids who arent his, and handcuffed in by 2 kids who are……His own kids allegedly get beaten up by the bigger kids in the “tribe”.
And his wife just keeps getting nuttier and he looks just as beaten down as any married schmuck.
Here is the recent photo of Brad Pitt that Max linked to. You can see Pitt has been “Al Bundy-ized”:
“Peeeeeeggg!”
Eyes glazed over. Not a hint of a smile. We’ve all seen this: The morose married man listlessly shambling around the mall with yapping wife and ungrateful brats in tow; the man who didn’t know what he was getting into and has subsequently had the joy of living beat out of him. Yes, not even marriage to Angelina Jolie, a top 1% woman (for her age), can stop this zombie-fication process. Brad Pitt is marching to the gravesite of his soul. He has lost the fight in him.
***
UPDATE: Turns out Pitt is probably not married to Jolie (though there are persistent rumors of a secret wedding). This is what I get for not keeping up with the latest moronic Hollywood celebrity gossip. I’m so ashamed. Nevertheless, my point stands. Pitt got roped into a multi-adoption, weirdo wife pseudo-marriage. He looks like a married man who woke up wondering what the hell just happened. Substitute almost any 5+ years married man you see walking about town and the truth of my observations becomes indisputable.
***
What women don’t seem to understand is that men could well do without the institution of marriage. We wouldn’t miss it at all. We could be perfectly happy in non-marital long term relationships. Men don’t breathlessly leaf through bridal mags or get jealous when our friends get hitched. We don’t dream of the wedding ceremony starting at the age of four. Married men *may* live longer than single men (though these claims are in dispute), but their psyches, their souls, and their masculine essence die long before their bodies do.
Once the first couple years of childless, lustful flush wanes, the married man becomes the walking dead… unless he revitalizes himself with a young mistress.
Maxim #11: The greater the sexual market value disparity between the husband and his depreciating wife, and the more kids they have, the more life the husband has sucked out of him.
For instance, Angelina Jolie is on the downward slope with the wall rapidly approaching. She is looking more like a man every day. They have adopted kids from all over the world. Nonbiological kids are not loved as much by parents as biological kids would be, don’t let them tell you otherwise. The resentment shows itself in little ways. Brad Pitt is still very much at the peak of his sexual power. He could have almost any 9 and 10 in the world. And he knows it. Instead, he is shackled to an androgenizing, aging Jolie and a zillion kids, only a couple of which are his. And the adopted kids are beating the shit out of his own flesh and blood. He has to be thinking “Why did I sign up for this?”.
I do believe it is time for a handy chart to illustrate the gradual psychological degradation of the married man, as seen in the emptiness of his gaze.
Years % Sexiness # of Kids Spark of Life
Married Remaining in Wife in Man’s Eyes
0-2 100 0 sparkling with life
2-5 80 1-2 serene and stoic
5-7 60 1-3* glassy
(one semi-retarded)
7-10 50 1-3* 1000 yard stare
(one gay)
10-12 40 1-4* serial killer
(one adopted,
different race)
12-15 20 1-5* comatose
(one flamboyantly gay,
two adopted,
one autistic,
one hates you)
15-20 5 1-5* zombie
(one drug addict,
one with gender confusion,
son who throws like girl,
one who looks like Samuel Jackson,
one in jail for filming upskirt vids)
20-infinity -100 Lost count Terminator
The evidence is clear. Your best bet as a man is to NOT GET MARRIED. JUST SAY NO. DON’T DO IT. ARE YOU CRAZY?
Don’t emulate Brad Pitt. Instead, be like this guy:
Those eyes are full of life. That smirk says it all. This is the look of a man who knows he made the right decision.
Brad Pitt is still very much at the peak of his sexual power. He could have almost any 9 and 10 in the world. And he knows it.
How do you know he isn’t out nailing 9’s and 10’s?
Peter
LikeLiked by 2 people
How do you know he isn’t out nailing 9’s and 10’s?
that’d be the way to bet.
but he’d have a much better time if he wasn’t tied down by an aging, man-jawed wife and a motley assortment of sprogs from the four corners of the earth.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Haha, love the chart.
And it’s true that while Brad is still pretty to look at, he’s missing the spark that used to make him sexy as hell. I’d pick Clooney any day.
LikeLike
Pitt’s problem is that he married a woman more alpha than himself. She is arguably more talented, charismatic, and with more Holywood cache than he is. Had he stayed with Aniston, a nice girl-next-door by the standards of his social class, he’d probably look more like Cloony in that photo.
At least that would have been a saner household, with none of he morally obscene third-world adoptions. And Aniston would likely tolerate his banging of groupies, if done discreetly.
Jolie is probably an energy vampire to boot.
LikeLike
Well, this guy looks pretty happy. Granted, the ex-model wife is looking a bit worse for wear compared to here, but then she’s bourne him 3 kids.
I think the more appropriate lesson is to pick a traditional girl for marriage, and get raise your kids in a religious community that supports traditional gender roles.
Oh, and don’t marry an actress!
LikeLike
I’ve always een unable to comprehend why Pitt would get married. Even to Jolie. Seems incredibly foolish. My only guess is that when you have his assets, banging a limitless parade of 10’s gets old after a while and perhaps he wanted to impregnate a women of equal genetic stock to create a brood of beautiful spawn.
LikeLike
I’ve never considered Angelina Jolie attractive. And yes, I’ve seen Gia.
Her body is good, but any actress in Hollywood has the same, or can buy it.
Her face is a mess. Her eyes look hollow, too-tired, and like a crackwhore. Her lips are monkey-like. And she has man hands. Oh, and Roissy is right, she gets manlier by the minute.
She is a good example of what getting the gays and lesbians on your side can do for your promotions. She’s manly enough, yet pretty enough, to be a lipstick lesbian, so the dykes go crazy for her. Gay men promote her too. And straight women secretly would love to be the homewrecker she was for Brad Pitt.
Jolie is a buttaface to me.
LikeLike
After coming from another country, I’ve been extremely jaded with American women. They get excited when they find out I can cook.
I lose 50% interest when I find out they can’t. It’s a recipe for rapid aging in a woman. You’re doomed to processed foods, take-out and restaurants. Add that to the fact that they don’t exercise with anything more than pink dumbbells.
Perhaps something needs to be said on how women are born with their looks (which determines most of their dating value) while men have to work for ours (physical fitness/money/respect/resources).
I guess the upside is that we’ve got more time on the market. What’s the point of more time on the market though if the market is in a recession?
Gotta get out of this country…y’d I come? Oh yea. Money
LikeLike
A woman who can’t cook is 50% more useless when I kick her out of bed.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ummm, they’re not married, you ignorant dumbfucks.
EPIC FAIL.
LikeLike
Hate to blow up this whole post but do you realize that they are not in fact married.
“What women don’t seem to understand is that men could well do without the institution of marriage. We wouldn’t miss it at all. We could be perfectly happy in non-marital long term relationships.”
This is basically what they have conveyed as a couple. They are not married and seem content with that fact. He is not legally locked in which negates most of what you are saying here. Looks like you need to pick another guy to pin your negative ideals about marriage on.
LikeLike
to my married man,
Last night, in front of friends, you mentioned acceptance that some of your dreams will never be fulfilled. I felt sad at the moment, and it kept me awake. Today I”m seeing it as a sign of maturity. True enough, you may never patten your product ideas, be an impressive golfer, nor contribute to your community the way you’d like. You’ve accepted that your early dreams of a renaissance life were beyond realistic. The time and challenges of nurturing three flourishing kids took lots out of you. Yet, you prioritize this as your greatest accomplishment; to soon send three competent kids out into the world. We can soon lighten the burdens off our backs, foist them onto the kids and their friends, knowing the future is in good hands.
LikeLike
Had he stayed with Aniston, a nice girl-next-door by the standards of his social class
As long as he doesn’t mind her spending $50K getting her hair styled.
Peter
LikeLike
1. Pitt looks fucking great in that picture. He looks 20 years younger than his actual age… and, er, the Clooney picture is, um…… just don’t look at me like that, dude.
2. Pitt and Jolie aren’t fucking married!
3. What does it say that the vast majority of “alpha males” DO get married? The vast majority of rock stars, actors, athletes, and CEOs get married and have kids. Brad Pitt certainly could have an endless run of 9s and 10s, but this is what he chose instead, and he could defect without meaningful penalty at any time. But he doesn’t. He isn’t “trapped”. It is a revealed preference that most men with infinite choice, choose some flavor of family and lasting monogamy.
4. Vladamir’s comment from the last thread deserves repeating:
LikeLike
Pitt and Clooney are gay in my opinion. The only spark they resurrect are weekends away – together – in The Brokeback Tent.
rest of the time, it’s public gazing, “hugging it out”, and frottage.
Pitt’s even let his beard turn…..fucking gray. No man does that. The only reason he doesn’t grow a beerbelly and jowls is he gets paid zillions to recreate his Oblique Poses from Fight Club and Troy.
LikeLike
You know, I was going to take issue with the fact that Pitt’s picture was taken by paparrazzi while Clooney’s is actually a professional shoot, but I compared impromptu pictures of both, and the spark in Pitt’s eye is gone compared to Clooney. Sad.
Check this one out. He should join a Fight Club or something to regain that spring in his step.
I can’t find any picture of Clooney, despite his disdain for paparazzi, with that dead or even angry look in his eye:
LikeLike
Somewhat off-top, but I have a tale from betaland…
I met up for a beer with a hot 25yo chick I’d been having casual sex with but hadn’t seen for a couple weeks and in conversation, she revealed to me a most interesting story of a beta loser who came to his senses – though these are not the terms which she used, the reason being that she was the instrument of entrapment for the beta.
So she has a two year old child. Conceived during a brief fling with a guy met at a wedding. The father’s a listless 20 year old so what does she do? Whilst newly pregnant she dates and quickly falls for another man, a man who says he’s ready to be a dad and pledges to be the child’s father, and her partner — beta-provider all the way and she loved it. He’s there when her son is born. He signs the birth certificate, all heroic-like. They experience post-childbirth euphoria. All is well.
Then reality sets in: he’s raising another man’s spawn. Several months into it, he discovers his balls and goes to court to have his name stricken from the birth certificate, and the biological facts (thankfully) sway the judge. His brief stint as willing-cuckold over, he leaves her.
This of course is my phrasing, not hers. To hear her retell it, its as if the guy was shirking his responsibility and owed her something. If only he’d stuck around longer she thinks she could’ve leveraged that against him (and his assets) in court. But what the hell about the actual sperm donor you incredulously ask? She makes no effort to have him legally recognized or liable for his child. Why? Because she knows he spends more time fucking and drinking than working, to which I think, smart man. She doesn’t want to inconvenience him. I know, its despicably backward, but that’s what betas set themselves up for.
I hadn’t the cold heart to ask her why she didn’t do the sensible thing and get an abortion and therefor maintain her high value as an attractive single girl with options rather than becoming a huge asterisk – a hot but nonexclusive fuck toy, from my vantage – but that’s because I’m a selfish man.
LikeLike
Vladamir’s comment from the last thread deserves repeating
Absolutely.
LikeLike
And even roissy tried to get married.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/dodged-the-same-bullet-twice/
LikeLike
And even roissy tried to get married.
Can’t link to post. 😦
“Dodged The Same Bullet Twice”
LikeLike
Oops my bad. Not censorship, just WordPress being WordPress.
LikeLike
Pitt’s even let his beard turn…..fucking gray. No man does that
I always thought it was very feminine who colored their hair.
LikeLike
Pitt’s even let his beard turn…..fucking gray. No man does that.
Would you give that advice to Sean Connery? Nothing looks stupider than a guy with crow’s feet and weathered hands dyeing his beard or hair. The incongruity is pathetically obvious. Only women can pull dye jobs off.
LikeLike
I dont really have any reason to dispute Roissys claims on marriage, but using Pitt as an example doesnt work. Doesnt help that they arent married, but furthermore I think its really a stretch to characterize that picture of him that way. Jolie is hot and anyone who really thinks she isnt is a closet fag. She could definitely start hitting a wall, start looking like her dad, but shes smokin, especially for having 2 kids.
Also, Firepower, ‘no man’ man lets his beard get gray? What kind of loser dies his beard? Have some self respect and be proud of your age.
LikeLike
Also, legally wed or not she’s still got her hooks in him via the biological kids.
I read Pitt’s going to meet with Nancy Pelosi. He’s obviously a whipped puppy.
LikeLike
Syndicated columnist Kathleen Parker noticed this about Brad Pitt about three years ago in a column about how fathers are expendable:
“For a visual aid, picture Angelina Jolie — goddess/mother toting her collection of global offspring with unwed Brad-Dad in tow, shuffling along like a bashful Sherpa.”
Link here: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/kathleen/parker061606.php3
LikeLike
Eh, Pitt looks the same. But I think PA hit the nail on the head:
“Pitt’s problem is that he married a woman more alpha than himself.”
Pitt is just a beta boy from Iowa who wants kids and a family. Nothing wrong with that, but Jolie is NOT the type of woman you want for the mother of your kids.
He’s still luckier than the average dad: He’ll walk away from the crazy bitch one day and still have his millions intact and still be viable on the sexual market.
No doubt, Clooney is older, smarter, and wiser for hooking up with a hot new nobody every 6 months. He’ll probably marry a 20-something waitress when he’s in his 60s.
LikeLike
Any guy St. Brad’s age SHOULD dye.
Connery’s also bald as a fucking peeled egg: I’d tell him to shave the Santa face like I would any guy that age who only aspires to hump Chloris Leachman N’ Pals.
didnt’ think I had to point out Men also have that option.
LikeLike
Another factual error in Roissy’s post: Angelina Jolie has been officially pregnant twice, but has had three children. You see, she gave birth to twins last time. Anyone with six children under 8 years of age might look a little tired. In a few more years, Mr Pitt might perk up again.
LikeLike
Brad Pitt is 45 and looks like he’s 30. I fail to see how this is a case against relationships.
LikeLike
“Pitt’s problem is that he married a woman more alpha than himself. She is arguably more talented, charismatic, and with more Holywood cache than he is.”
WTF? With pieces of shit like Tomb Raider?
LikeLike
“Syndicated columnist Kathleen Parker noticed this about Brad Pitt about three years ago in a column about how fathers are expendable:
Link here: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/kathleen/parker061606.php3 ”
The irony is that jewish women are among the most likely women to expend their husbands in favor of their husbands’ bank accounts.
LikeLike
My guess is that Brad is a civil human being and as such his pair-bonding has led to a reduction in testosterone and other androgens. He does not need to dump Angelina to regain his spark. What he probably needs is to supplement with testosterone. It will work wonders. I would also bet that he could benefit from increased dopamine. I have been experimenting with some substances and I will never go back to natural, no matter the risks.
I would say that Roissy’s chart is dead on for most men. However, modern chemistry can sort those problems for many dudes. Marriage is a mixed bag, but I would not want to live without kids; they become a source of life that is difficult to explain. Of course, I am assuming good kids, not ratfinks.
LikeLike
With pieces of shit like Tomb Raider
Pitt has a more impressive acting resume but Jolie is seen in Hollywood as more than just an actress. With all that ambassador to the UN crap she’s regarded as someone who transcends mere acting.
Anyone with six children under 8 years of age might look a little tired.
You don’t think they have a platoon of nannies to actually deal with the kids?
LikeLike
Rick, you’rea closet fag if you think her beauty is beyond question. Reminds me fo that kid in high school who insisted that anyone questioning Madonna’s looks was gay. Came back to the renunion 10 years later with his “partner” and was living in P-town.
Like I said, good body, buttaface.
Jolie didn’t have a hit movie till she stole Brad from Aniston. Tomb Raider is what they call a “paper blockbuster”–through manipualtion of the gross and overseas release, along with media references they inflated the gross, but come on—who here saw it? Mr. &Mrs. Smith is what got your grandma talking about her.
LikeLike
“transcends mere acting. ”
–that means she sucks at acting but is a “star.” Which I agree, is true.
LikeLike
That chart is hilarious.
LikeLike
PA —
Yuup. Nailed it PA.
As well I think she’s basically the domme in the relationship. Not necessarily totally so in bed, but I do think she dommes from the bottom, from what I’ve heard — as well as sometimes from the top.
I.e. he lives in some flavor or other of a wife lead marriage.
LikeLike
“Connery’s also bald as a fucking peeled egg: I’d tell him to shave the Santa face like I would any guy that age who only aspires to hump Chloris Leachman N’ Pals.”
I know women in their 20s who would do Connery, even now that he’s 78.
LikeLike
Jennifer Aniston would have been the better bet for Pitt. She has better values, and is also aging better than the other two he had (Gwenyth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie).
Gwenyth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie are both wackos. Jennifer Anniston is relatively sane, for a celebrity.
LikeLike
As well there are rumors that Joie has at least a female lover on the side. She’s still seeing a former bed down bed gf, though she has claimed now platonicly.
Pitt wanted children. That’s why HE says he left Aniston. She kept saying ok but later, then later. Probably it also got old.
But yeah he’d be way better off living with a beautiful and good personality non star (who thinks she’s won the jackpot), with a cohabitation agreement that gives her a hunk of change and agrees to a certain amount of child support (and in case alimony but capped), that would amount to a few million, but not make any serious dent in his own money or his inducement (as opposed to desperation) financial power of her.
And then play some on the side. While being loving and sexing to the mother of his children that he lives with long term, perhaps for good.
Well he could even marry her with a prenup that accomplishes the above, to the certainty or near certainty of a first rate divorce lawyer.
LikeLike
financial power over her.
LikeLike
jesus christ:
Ummm, they’re not married, you ignorant dumbfucks.
is it your opinion that being ignorant of insipid celebrity gossip is a mark of stupidity?
patrick:
Somewhat off-top, but I have a tale from betaland…
patrick, great story. you’ve just inspired a new post.
LikeLike
ROYAL: “I know women in their 20s who would do Connery, even now that he’s 78.”
And, that tells you WHAT about women? You sound like roissy lol
LikeLike
Predictable.
Beat women, justify it with flimsy arguments, then hold in disdain men who actually know how to have a real relationship with them.
You really do believe your own bullshit, don’t you?
LikeLike
rain and:
1. Pitt looks fucking great in that picture. He looks 20 years younger than his actual age… and, er, the Clooney picture is, um…… just don’t look at me like that, dude.
pitt has a team of specialists keeping the horrors that beset the average married man from etching its sordid tale into his face.
2. Pitt and Jolie aren’t fucking married!
mybad.
3. What does it say that the vast majority of “alpha males” DO get married?
self-delusion.
Brad Pitt certainly could have an endless run of 9s and 10s, but this is what he chose instead, and he could defect without meaningful penalty at any time.
re: pitt, the option of relatively consequence-free defection makes the choice of malleable monogamous family life with a headcase less personally inimical.
But he doesn’t. He isn’t “trapped”. It is a revealed preference that most men with infinite choice, choose some flavor of family and lasting monogamy.
true. but lasting monogamy need not mean marriage. the smarter guys wake up to that fact.
4. Vladamir’s comment from the last thread deserves repeating:
“…For the vast majority of people, unless a patriarchal system awards them positions of honor, authority, and respect, the few years of youthful fun are followed by nothing but a pointless, joyless, and increasingly painful long march to the grave.”
alcohol and hookers sounds a lot more fun than the nebulous concepts of honor, authority and respect that may or may not accrue from following the soulsucking family life path.
LikeLike
What I don’t understand is how Pitt got to be considered “the sexiest man in America” in the first place.
Clooney deserved his run, but Pitt has never lost his bland fresh-off-the-back-40 vibe. He seems devoid of personality, and always has.
You can admire his good looks, but there’s a certain detachment there, not a visceral sense of awe.
Unlike Clooney, and Connery, who as a previous poster pointed out is still desired by not a few 20somethings young enough to be his granddaughters.
LikeLike
Whatever. It’s just one picture. Mountains and molehills and all that jazz.
LikeLike
Roissy: Jolie, hot or not?
(See The Office episode about that tranny, Hilary Swank)
LikeLike
ian in betaburg:
Predictable.
Beat women, justify it with flimsy arguments, then hold in disdain men who actually know how to have a real relationship with them.
what? anal sex doesn’t qualify as a real relationship?
LikeLike
Reminds me of madonna’s hubby,poor Guy. He never wanted that african pickaninnie,now he’s got to pretend he wants to raise him to get the chance to see his OWN son!!! I see something similar in the future for Pitt. When they split,he will have three beuatiful kids of his own,but will have to put up with those hideous foreign beasties—the Ethiopian girl always has the biggest snarl on her face!!–and maintain the fiction that he loves em all! Is Pitt “beaten down” Hell yeah! This is the most “wanted” man in the world!! And he is stuck in a madhouse with screaming brats. As for Jolie–when i stroke it,I wouldnt even bother thinking of her squatting on my face while moaning in pleasure…like I do with Katie Couric! Oh those skinny legs wrapped around me!! OH! The joy entrancing!!!
LikeLike
lurker:
Roissy: Jolie, hot or not?
back in the day: hot.
now? the bloom is off the man-jaw.
note: she’s still hotter than 99.9% of women her age.
ps hilary swank: not quite hot. she looks like she could fit a horse in her gaping maw. great body though.
LikeLike
motherfucking communists bought the movie rights to Atlas Shrugged. i hope it never gets made.
LikeLike
The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal
family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the
male, no such association takes place.
—Robert Briffault
LikeLike
motherfucking communists bought the movie rights to Atlas Shrugged. i hope it never gets made.
Who did?
LikeLike
it’s a brangelina pet project. they are poised to play dagny and rearden. goddamn disgrace.
LikeLike
More I think about it the more it’s obvious to me that a male star is crazy to marry a female star of anything like his status in Hollywood.
One alpha thing that a normal woman will unquestionable lose if she were to contemplate leaving her star husband for e.g. his flagrant cheating, is access to the A list Hollywood parties and social circle, etc. Maybe not all would drop her but most would. Jolie gets invited on her own bat period. At least as much.
It should be men’s objective to minimize to the maximum extent possible the loss of his power by virtue of his letting a woman move in with him or much more dangerously, marry him. Then he should be loving anyway, but always leading — overall. That’s another reason why you have to be tough as nails in a pre-nup.
You can always decide to give her more in the event. But you’re trying to deter her divorcing you, and incentives definitely matter.
LikeLike
it’s a brangelina pet project. they are poised to play dagny and rearden. goddamn disgrace.
According to Wikipedia, Crowe is billed for Rearden and both Pitt and Jolie are big Rand fans.
Personally, I hope it never gets made. No one will ever do it justice and you can’t really make a book that long into a good movie.
LikeLike
“What I don’t understand is how Pitt got to be considered “the sexiest man in America” in the first place.”
That was back in the time when girls were creaming over the androgynous boy-band types. Pitt always had the looks that only look good on a younger man, not the classic good look like Connery or Clooney. Of course Pitt has the means to pay people to make him look younger, which might explain why he still looks fairly young even at 45.
For married men in their 40s without Pitt’s looks, wealth, and/or fame, though, the other option isn’t blasting an endless array of 20-year-olds.
LikeLike
Celibacy is always a good and empowering option, too, Douggie. heh.
The old-timers believed that a woman sucks a man’s power directly through his semen, hence why women are often so energized after sex and a man is generally drained.
Men’s-rights forever!
LikeLike
Anyway, gosh, I hadn’t realized what an age difference there was between Pitt and Jolie. Twelve years, right?
I think that’s a good age difference for a married couple.
One finds it hard to understand why he would “marry” a girl with a penchant for picking up stray babies from various dusty portions of the globe, but that’s his business, I reckon.
LikeLike
and both Pitt and Jolie are big Rand fans.
My impression of them is they are both typical Hollywood lefties wringing their hands over the perpetually un-helpable but maybe I’m wrong.
LikeLike
@SA
Trust me, they are not Rand fans. I can’t even extrapolate without getting belligerent.
LikeLike
Whaddya think the other option actually is, Royal?
For those poor saps who find themselves shackled to the misery that is Woman, in what would otherwise be their glorious forties?
LikeLike
“More I think about it the more it’s obvious to me that a male star is crazy to marry a female star of anything like his status in Hollywood.
One alpha thing that a normal woman will unquestionable lose if she were to contemplate leaving her star husband for e.g. his flagrant cheating, is access to the A list Hollywood parties and social circle, etc. Maybe not all would drop her but most would. Jolie gets invited on her own bat period. At least as much.”
The Hollywood marriages that work tend to be those between A-list stars and C-list types. The C-lister is happy with the status boost merely by being with the A-lister, the papparazzi doesn’t really give a crap, and from the A-lister’s perspective the status differential is great enough to control the relationship, but not so much that the other person views them as a god (as it would be between an A-lister and any random hot girl off the street.)
Much the same as in the real world, where a relationship between a doctor and a hairdresser probably won’t work, but one between a doctor and a teacher often will.
LikeLike
My impression of them is they are both typical Hollywood lefties wringing their hands over the perpetually un-helpable but maybe I’m wrong.
That was my impression too, but I just read the wikipedia entry on Atlas Shrugged under the film adaptation section. Then again, what else would they say?
LikeLike
omw–
Yeah.
Also he’s not as much of pretty boy bordering on nancy boy as DiCaprio and Cruze are, but there’s some of that, seems to me. Though Fight Club did tend to establish his image as very tough and manly.
Russell Crowe on the other hand exudes studliness. No, not nearly as pretty, but good looking. And tough.
LikeLike
Jolie famously said that she was undecided between McCain and Obama. That may have been a shrewd move on her part—seeking not to become part of the Hollywood nutty left cabal and alienate her few fans–but also influence: her estranged father, Jon Voight, is one of the few visible right-leaning actors out there.
In any event, Jolie adopts kids by the bushel for publicity sake, but its better than one or two.
Pitt’s never been known as a political, although he did do a movie about the CIA with Robert Redford. If he’s got causes, I sure haven’t heard him mouth off about them. Plus, he’s a midwestern boy with no intra-Hollywood connections that boosted him; generally, the more esconced your people are in LA, the more liberal you are.
So I would say they are either “pragmatically netural” or just apolitical, or else more rightist than they appear. Certainly being lefty hasn’t hurt nuts like Streisand or Clooney.
LikeLike
Roissy dear,
I have some problems with this post. First of all, Brad Pitt NEVER had that Clooney-glint-in-the-eye, so I don’t think it’s entirely fair to blame the absence thereof on Angelina. Also, I agree with whoever said he may look tired because they have so many small children. I think they’re ‘anti-nanny’, so they’re doing this themselves.
Second, I don’t think Brad looks at the ‘colored’ kids in the tribe, thinking, I hate those little bastards. He seems to genuinely care about people of color, as evidenced by his post-Katrina work in New Orleans.
He was on Larry King, talking about it, and Angie was somewhere else with all the kids, so it’s not like she was forcing him. It seemed like he wanted to be there, and everytime Larry tried to talk about a movie, or gossip, he looked irritated, like he really wanted to talk about getting hurricane survivors settled in new homes or whatever.
Third, regardless of what you say, Roissy dear, Brad, George, and Sean are sexy as hell. 😉
LikeLike
Crowe is one of the few actors unafraid of his masculinity. he’s a throw back to “manly actors” such as Richard Burton or Clark Gable or Sean Connery—guys who had hair on their chest and were unabashed at being masculine and dominant.
What makes Crowe stick out today is both the lack of such men and the opposite: androgynous nancy boy metrosexuals. Jude Law/Christian Bale/Terrence Howard/ Robert Downey, Jr. –guys who appear slim, hairless, and athletic–reflect a gay aesthetic.
LikeLike
This is for Cali, the guy who wrote a few days ago about girls mistaking him for a European, and him going along with it:
Did anything good come of your dates? Did you trip yourself up? I find myself in a similar situation, and have been practicing my accent in anticipation of a couple of dates.
Roissy: What are your thoughts on fake foreigner game?
LikeLike
OMG, this is off-topic, but I’m watching a movie on Lifetime right now (don’t laugh, my mom called and MADE me turn). So, this old white lady, for some reason, wants to divorce her younger-looking, way-hotter husband. Nobody was cheating, she just wants out for no good reason (ie, “we’ve grown apart”). Her bestfriend (played by a slightly better looking Cheryl Ladd) appraises the situation quickly, and, being divorced herself, jumps right on the guy, scoops him up, and is fucking him on a regular basis. Then the daughter snitches, the first wife finds out, drama ensues.
How fucked up is this? Why would an old white chick, not even cougar material, leave her hotter-than-her husband, for no good reason, and then get mad when somebody else volunteers for the job? What kind of dumb shit is that?
This is why women are alone.
LikeLike
Russell Crowe and Mel Gibson
LikeLike
Oh god the Brad Pitt extrapolation is stupid. One picture catching him looking to the side is definitive proof of zombification? Give me a break. One can easily find pictures of him smiling at the very same event (use google btw). Nevermind the fact he is probably stressed that he is up for an Oscar. Seriously roissy, do you think before you type these things? Every other post is like a sweeping generalization made from one or two data points.
“And the adopted kids are beating the shit out of his own flesh and blood. He has to be thinking “Why did I sign up for this?”.”
again – your usual assumption-making without anything to back it up. Try harder next time please. This was packed with drivel and a lack of common sense.
LikeLike
Lifetime: the men are no damn good channel.
LikeLike
I think it is sort of amusing that Roissy said not too long ago “Loving, committed relationships are great” while denigrating marriage, and then calls this a “pseudo-marriage” to bash the institution, when it seems to meet the criteria for being a “loving, committed relationship.”
What, you mean Brad and Angelina are basically in a common-law marriage? That’s not exactly a new idea.
Once you’ve been shacked up with someone for long enough, especially if you’ve had a few kids together, virtually everyone will think of you as de facto married.
Past a certain point, nobody will inquire or care about your legal status anymore– the dynamics are the same.
What Roissy and the mens-rights crowd should concern themselves with is never having children, not bashing formal legal marriage per se.
LikeLike
@ lurker
I don’t know why other women watch it, but I know we watch it and laugh at the silly bitches who get caught in totally foreseeable situations with psycho guys and then act surprised when they get their asses beat.
LikeLike
That movie sounds tailor-made for boomer housewives to work out their “tsk” muscle on the main character, Chloe. 😉
LikeLike
What’s the name the Lifetime movie? Talking about a movie without giving it’s title, and shit like that. You dumb bitch.
LikeLike
Jesus, Rush, if you’ve ever seen the channel, you would know that its movies are all interchangeable.
The actual titles are as irrelevant as the actual names of Roissy’s last ten girlfriends.
LikeLike
“[Rihanna] turned to face Brown and he punched her in the left eye with his right hand. He then drove away in the vehicle and continued to punch her in the face with his right hand while steering the vehicle with his left hand. The assault caused [Rihanna]’s mouth to fill with blood and blood to splatter all over her clothing and the interior of the vehicle.”
Driving and beating a bitch at the same time. Now that’s alpha. Beta version: jerking off and holding the mouse at the same time.
LikeLike
Thank you omw, you’re right.
And, fuck you, Rush. Get a fucking tv guide.
Further, considering your interest in Lifetime movies, I would venture to say you don’t get much ass… beta.
LikeLike
omw–
I have a live in gf at the moment omw.
LikeLike
Chloe has spunk. I like it.
LikeLike
I wish I could edit that last comment. I was disrespectful toward those betas who are actually trying NOT to be sniveling bitches.
Rush is an omega, unworthy to even sniff my discarded, cum-stained panties.
There, that’s better.
LOL
LikeLike
As one of the guys that has spent a bit of time talking about my own marriage on this site, and have talked about how Game has made my marriage a lot better…I do have to say, should we divorce, or I become widowed, there is no way in holy hell I’d ever get married again. Ever.
I got married in ignorance…before I realized just how corrupted the institution has become, and just what a bad deal it is for men in this day and age.
I lucked out when I proposed to my wife…I met and married a woman who comes from an intact family, who’s parents are still married and still affectionately in love with each other. This was the model my wife was raised in, she had an extremely happy family life, and I think this was the ONLY reason my marriage survived seven years of beta-tude on my behalf.
As much as I love my wife, and I believe she truly loves and is committed to me, I am well aware of the basic facts of my personal situation under the law: should she meet some guy that she gets the hots for, she could very well divorce me and trap me into indentured servitude for the rest of my life. We’ve been married 10 years, which I believe is the litmus for a lifetime of alimony in the event of divorce in our no-fault divorce state.
Therefore, not only am I committed to serving out my “til death do us part” marriage vow because I love her, but I also know that should I sink back down into beta-tude and stop keeping my wife’s attraction alive for me by gaming her constantly, I could very well fall into the trap so many other ex-husbands have been condemned to in today’s fucked up Matriarchy.
Finally, for all the idiots thinking they got one over on roissy by pointing out that Brad and Angelina are not really married…it really doesn’t matter, your point is meaningless in today’s family court/divorce industry, male meat grinder of a system.
They have kids together, and Brad has officially adopted the other children as his too. Wedding certificate or not, he’s essentially stuck just as much as any man that was ignorant or foolish enough to exchange rings and vows in this day and age of the feminist zeitgeist.
Marriage or not, should Angelina decide to give Brad the boot…or Brad decides to dump her aging, crazy ass for a young beauty, he is still going to be on the hook for child support for the entire brood of kids until the youngest turns 18 (or 24 if the youngest goes to college) while she will no doubt have full custody and control visitation and perhaps even alienate them from him in bitterness like Kim Basinger did to Alec Baldwin with their daughter.
It’s a statistical fact – the highest rate of suicides in the West is the teenage children of broken homes. The second highest is the divorced father forced to pay child support while denied visitation and having his kids turned against him by a bitter, vindictive bitch of an ex-wife.
From a guy who is currently happily married, I wholeheartedly support roissy’s advice to other men…until the culture and legal system regarding marriage and divorce and child custody are changed, DON’T GET MARRIED.
LikeLike
omw —
The problem isn’t women or their basic nature — though as Roissy skillfully points out post after post, most men don’t understand women’s nature at all well and often fundamentally misinterpret and mis-predict it.
The problem is America’s hyper feminist media and educational and other culture, and the virtually total black out in the media of the anti-feminist male point of view.
The problem is also, and probably even more because it’s harder to avoid, the set of feminist created divorce and whether married or not, tricked or not, child support laws, where child support=very substantial alimony for high earning professional or other men.
Women can be and often are wonderful. The distorted American messages of how relations should be and they say usually are today in the US between the sexes in a long term relationship is not wonderful. It’s godawful.
Actually it seems you understand that to a large degree and behave differently. I still think it would be nuts to marry ANY woman in America today without a very serious prenup, aiming for the property split of living together, refusing all alimony, and limiting child support as much as possible.
Which is not to say that I don’t think a man should help support his kids if they are indeed his and he agreed to have them, and has formed a strong relationship with them before she divorced him. But I think it should be up to him how much he does, and that the payments should usually be directly for some or many of their expenses rather than paid to her without accountability to him. It’s up to him how much he pays for kid things when he was married and it should be at least as much so after she divorces him.
LikeLike
Chloe–
Good for you babe. It’s nice to see some female charity toward a group of guys not yet up to her standards, but like you say, trying.
LikeLike
agree with Gunner, it’s just one picture, sheesh. To presume to know these people is self-delusion.
Men gossiping and speculating on celebrity relationships like a bunch of vapid Americans is bad enough (and def not sexy!!) but extrapolating from that to support a personal world view is sheer idiocy.
“People stay married because they want to, not because the doors are locked.” — Paul Newman
LikeLike
dougjnn,
” It’s nice to see some female charity toward a group of guys not yet up to her standards, but like you say, trying.”
Look, as long as people are trying, you can’t fault them. I even give ugly and/or fat girls make-up and clothing advice, because sometimes they don’t know any better… much like the above-mentioned douche-nozzle.
Call me a good Samaritan. 😉
LikeLike
“The old-timers believed that a woman sucks a man’s power directly through his semen”
As always, the old-timers are CORRECT.
Once a woman sucks up a man’s semen into her uterus, nothing saps a man’s power like handing over up to 33% of his PRE-TAX income every month for child support.
BTW, Russell Crowe is BETA as fuck.
His wife MAKES him call regularly to make sure he’s not cheating. One day, his hotel phone wasn’t working and threw it at a hotel clerk. Said he was afraid she’d think he was out fooling around and would leave him and take his kid. Cried and snivelled all that bullshit on talk shows.
These beta actors could all learn a thing or 2 from Clooney.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii—
You the man DfH.
Sadly a corollary of this and the rest of your post is also don’t have children.
That should not be. But it is.
There really is no way around it either. At least not that I’ve been able to figure out, and I’ve tried, periodically, for over a decade.
It child support were capable that would make an enormous difference. I’m not absolutely sure it’s not in every state. I know that the first 90k or so of a man’s income is going to be subject for the formula percentage child support, which tends to be 20-25% for one kid, add another 5-7% for the second, in both cases BEFORE tax, so the AFTER TAX amount in a high tax state where most high incomes are made is a WAY higher percentage. After tax income is the only kind the guy can actually spend.
LikeLike
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/dodged-the-same-bullet-twice/
Roissy almost got married? And the woman didn’t want it? Maybe it had to do with you finding “sexual variety” on the side while dating for long-term (two years)?
Kinda blows this post out of the water (along with the fact that Brad still wants more kids and they aren’t married).
LikeLike
No, spending on children is not entirely discretionary when you are a parent; let your spending drop below a certain point and you can be certain that an investigation for neglect will ensue.
And Dave, that’s exactly my point. Having kids is the crux of the problem here.
Not marriage, or the lack thereof.
If Douggie has a half a dozen children by his current girlfriend, the nature of their relationship WILL change from being completely consensual to having a bit of… steel behind it.
That’s the thing about being patriarchs, gentlemen. It comes with heavy-duty responsibility, not just pure pleasure.
Our great-grandfathers understood that. Their grandsons were all too pleased to be let off the hook a little, and now we are paying the price.
You want servile wives, but don’t want to deal with the ten kids that used to inform her worldview. Well and fine; but don’t come crying to me.
LikeLike
Anon
Maybe that’s because it was true and he acts beta towards his wife, or a lot more beta than is good for him. Or maybe it’s a story his publicist dreamt up to keep the phone incident from damaging his career. Incredibly, throwing that phone at a female hotel maid was big celebrity gossip news for weeks, with Crowe maybe getting some kind of criminal record over it, no doubt due to feminist pressures in NYC.
I don’t like his pandering to the hyper feminist media in that way, but you do have to pick your battles.
LikeLike
when you live with someone here you can be considered common-law after as little as six months. and that has all the tax ramifications of actual marriage when you split up. i am still trying to figure out a way to take my former roommates to the cleaners, i could sure use that tv now. life is so pointless without tv.
LikeLike
Anyway, why don’t men rise up and demand fulltime custody, not just lenience in the matter of child support?
It seems to me that your average divorcing dad would just as soon let Mom deal with the brats on a day-to-day basis; that he grumbles mightily about cutting the check every month means nothing at all to most people I know.
The current system merely allows married couples to continue having the same arguments they have anyway, just in separate houses. That it does nothing to stem the tide should surprise nobody.
LikeLike
And yes, having children gives a woman power.
When and where on earth has this not been true?
It’s a mother’s compensation for the inevitable decline of her youthful beauty.
It’s why nobody messes with my mama. LOL.
LikeLike
So, fellas, go ahead and take yourselves out of the gene pool. Somehow, it seems fitting. No risk, no reward, right?
LikeLike
Marriage is for children , and marriage is a higher level of commitment than all other arrangements. Any woman who accepts less for her children is less of a woman/mother than they deserve.
In the event of paternal bailout, she will ultimately answer to her children. Either it will be : “Your father and I were briefly and casually together, and he left”, or ” We were fully committed at the highest level, but just couldn’t make it.”
Roissy states, “What women don’t seem to understand is that men could well do without the institution of marriage. We wouldn’t miss it at all. We could be perfectly happy in non-marital long term relationships.
No argument with that, at all ………….unless children are involved. A woman who accepts less for her children should be shamed.
LikeLike
“I lucked out when I proposed to my wife…I met and married a woman who comes from an intact family, who’s parents are still married and still affectionately in love with each other.”
That’s great. But the only way to tell if a marriage is gonna last the test of time is to wait until divorce or death, whichever comes first. Anything can happen between now and then.
“Brad has officially adopted the other children… Marriage or not, should Angelina decide to give Brad the boot…or Brad decides to dump her… he is still going to be on the hook for child support… while she will no doubt have full custody and control visitation and perhaps even alienate them from him”
Pitt is loaded — his millions will still be intact. The payday from one movie is enough to support his U.N. tribe. He will pay a SMALLER percentage of his overall wealth than the average dad.
Child support laws were enacted to impoverish the common man into a lifetime of servitude, not millionaire actors.
And if he was so desperate for the love of his children, he could start over and knock up a cocktail waitress. The average guy can’t AFFORD to start over.
LikeLike
The average guy could never afford to start over, Anon.
LikeLike
And the average guy has always lived in some degree of servitude to various people in his life, even including his wife.
What did that used to be called?
Oh, yeah, “responsibility.”
LikeLike
Yes Brangelina.
As i commented before in another page, I don’t believe in marriage as such, its bad for both the man and the woman, I’m a romantic and i have seen so many people fall into the marriage trap, all the affection is lost.
Sadly just this morning, i got even more convinced. My sister called and told she is having a divorce, just by this summer she got married, after ten years of being together with her boyfriend, they have a 2 year old girl and now for 12 weeks she doesn’t want to see him at all,,,
At the contrary, that convinced why marriage is bad bad bad i have another example
My friends father have been together with his girlfriend for 17 years. after the guy had a marriage and a divorce, (with my friends mom) he met this women, they both decided not to get married, they have one child, and this is the only working relationship that i have seen so far.
People get married and pretend it is perfect, but its far away from that.
B
LikeLike
“What women don’t seem to understand is that men could well do without the institution of marriage. We wouldn’t miss it at all. We could be perfectly happy in non-marital long term relationships.”
Though this is certainly the case for some men, I doubt it’s the case for a significant plurality. As you’ve said many times, most men are inherently idealistic romantics, more so than women in fact. Men crave and dream of long-lasting love–so deeply, in fact, that (as you’ve written) it likely could not even be overridden by a sexbot revolution. Combining this natural desire with the tendency to seek validation through social hierarchies (as brilliantly commented upon by Vladamir), among other societal pressures, and what you get is a whole lot of men who would genuinely love to get married someday.
Of course, it remains rare that marriage is the romantic, sex-fueled wonderland of unicorns and rainbows that the marriage seeking man anticipated.
LikeLike
OMW –
Sorry OMW…I don’t have kids (one of us is broken, we’ve tried unsuccessfully, but we’re not gonna spend the money to figure out the problem, and have just accepted that it’s not gonna happen)…but I’m just as “trapped” by no-fault divorce laws lobbied for by feminazi’s that dictate that alimony should be determined by the length of marriage…and that 10 years or more translates into lifetime support. Perhaps this would be different if my wife earned more, but I’ve been the primary breadwinner our entire marriage.
In fact, at least in an unmarried “baby’s daddies” case, he’s off the hook once the child hits 18 or 24 if he or she goes to college.
I could be forced to pay alimony for life.
Child custody is FUBAR. So is Marriage.
You cannot make this argument without accounting for the 50+ years of feminist mindfucked cultural attitudes that have literally been indoctrinated into society overall.
We men have been brainwashed from day one that “children belong with their mother.” We’ve all grown up in a culture and society in which we all know of divorced couples in which the women gains default custody 95% of the time.
It’s a feminist-engineered cultural norm that is firmly entrenched.
Men don’t even think about gaining custody unless the mother is an absolute misfit.
And the nature of most men’s complaints about child support are usually NOT that they are paying for their responsibilities as fathers…
it’s that custodial mothers are not held accountable for how they spend it;
…that the courts will not adjust the payments to reflect his employment satus….i.e. a laid off ex-husband can’t get a temporary relief form his child support obligation, get’s slapped with the deadbeat label and thrown into jail, losing his professional and driving licenses and passport, effectively stripping him of future income earning ability;
…that despite cutting the check every month under the threat of deadbeat laws that will imprison him, the courts do almost nothing when it comes to enforcing his visitation rights;
…that despite working his ass off to pay his obligations, his bitter bitch of an ex-wife poisons his own children against him, making them believe he is solely at fault for the divorce, that he doesn’t “care about them” so even if he gets his visitation, the kids are apathetic or hateful or don’t want to spend time with him anyhow.
LikeLike
“why don’t men rise up and demand fulltime custody, not just lenience in the matter of child support?”
They DO. But courts discriminate against them.
“So, fellas, go ahead and take yourselves out of the gene pool.”
The child support percentage is capped at 3 kids. You pay the same for 3 kids as you do 20 kids.
If I ever have to pay child support, I will impregnate every girl that crosses my path. Every one of my baby mamas will get a check for 50 cents.
LikeLike
jesus christ:
Ummm, they’re not married, you ignorant dumbfucks.
is it your opinion that being ignorant of insipid celebrity gossip is a mark of stupidity?
No, but it IS my opinion that if you’re going to base an entire post devoted to the horrors marriage hath wrought upon Brad Pitt, it might help to, y’know, MAKE SURE HE’S MARRIED.
It’s called fact checking, dumbass.
LikeLike
And this is where your female-centric mode of thinking displays itself as rather myopic and narcissistic. The reason why Roissy, and people like myself advocate that men do not marry is not that they should rather avoid responsibility, it is that under today’s cultural norms and legal climate, MEN ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE HELD TO ANY KIND OF LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Women stand to gain all the benefits and carry no responsibility!
If you can’t see that, you will never come close to understanding why it is people like us men on this blog have the position we do on the state of marriage and raising children in this day and age.
There’s a damn good reason why roissy writes that he wants to see the entire rotten edifice crash and burn…and why so many men chime in agreement.
We see the truth of our current reality, and it is ugly.
LikeLike
Ode to the married man–
Should a woman who decides to have children on her own be shamed? Or a woman who’s so irresponsible with birth control, all but one of which methods are under her sole control, that she accidentally gets pregnant without first establishing the commitment of the bio dad? Why shouldn’t she be even more shamed?
Instead of our hyper feminist media’s praising the “bravery” of the single mom, who deserves sympathy at every turn.
Wouldn’t it be much more effective for kids if she were scorned
LikeLike
Dave, if you are really from Hawaii, I can assure you that the court system won’t compel you to pay alimony to your bitchy ex forever.
So, being childfree, your marriage can be nearly as consequence-free as you wish it were.
My folks got divorced there, and Dad was obligated to pay Mom five years’ worth, on the grounds that she’d spent twenty years out of the workforce raising rugrats and thus needed some time to get re-educated to support herself.
He whined about it, too, but I thought it was a fair judgment.
And hey, I thought feminists wanted Dads to do more childcare, not less. ???
You’d think the cabal of feminazis that runs our society would love the sight of bedraggled single dads groveling for another hundred dollars a month out of their career-driven ex-wives.
lol.
LikeLike
No, the feminists only talk about this as a means of inserting a contentious topic in between a husband and a wife.
This is where a man tired from working all day to pay the bills gets to come home and here is feminist indoctrinated wife bitch and complain about how he doesn’t help with the chores and the housework…
Feminists have two primary objectives: to keep women from getting married and having children and focus on their careers…or if they do get married and have children, to make sure the marriage breaks up creating dependent wards on the State – children beholden to the authority of the State rather than the authority of their own Father.
LikeLike
You think raising a passel of kids is a matter of no legal or moral responsibility, Dave?
Childless people are so narcissistic and myopic.
I’d like to see the edifice crash and burn, too. But mostly to weed out the cultural deadwood, the laziness and the “gimme gimme” attitude that characterizes virtually all Americans under the age of forty.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii
Amen brother. That’s EXACTLY where I’m coming from.
It’s not primarily about money. It’s about the huge imbalance of power in American marriage, by the effect of feminist law.
This is incredibly different from what’s be true before in Western history, not to mention that of other civilizations.
When American men marry, they commit financially huge. Legally enforceably commit, very nearly no matter what their wife then does or doesn’t do.
When American women marry they commit absolutely nothing, legally. They can get out at a profit any ole time, no matter what they do or don’t do.
This is what American men should still be willing to do, as the uber beta, or more likely feminist woman, “Ode to the Married Man”, tells us?
I think not.
LikeLike
Well, Douggie, I would agree that pop-feminism as a whole, as an arm of the leftism that is fast eating Western society, prefers a public-patriarchy model to a private one, just as a matter of expedience.
But the sort of radical feminism you seem to despise the most would actually love, love, LOVE to see dads left changing the poopy diapers and scrounging for change under the sofa.
Only thing that is going to flip that script permanently would be the disappearance of reliable birth control.
But I bet you don’t want to see that happen, Doug; it benefits you as much as it undermines your “deserved” status as Master and Commander.
LikeLike
omw–
When?
Divorce law in all states changed massively in the early nineties due to a massive feminist divorce law model national statute and lobby campaign, and media campaign under the slogan “dead beat dads”.
In many places feminists kept tinkering, or ratching up, their extractions since. E.g. California.
LikeLike
“He seems to genuinely care about people of color, as evidenced by his post-Katrina work in New Orleans. ”
I believe that one of the hallmarks of liberaldom is to treat -Americans like lost puppies or mentally defective children.
“Aww, it isn’t his fault! He’s just a puppy!”
“Aww, it isn’t his fault! He’s just a child!”
“Aww, it isn’t his fault! He’s just a black!”
Same crap.
LikeLike
Where the hell did I say that?
I said in our current legal culture, MEN are the only ones that have a significant level of responsibility.
Women who are deadbeat mothers are not hounded, thrown into jail or shamed in the media.
Women, under no-fault divorce, have every financial and legal incentive to break their marriage vows, destroy their families and turn their children against their own father, and they pay no penalty for it.
These are the points you are failing to even address.
I’m not mypoic at all. The only reason I got married was because I wanted to have kids and raise a family of my own. And coming from a large, extended family of Hawaiians, I KNOW exactly what kind of responsibilities are entailed in child raising. I’ve done more than my fair share of changing diapers, baby sitting, midnight feedings and most of the other things that parenthood entails. I understand perfectly the sacrifices it requires, and I was more than willing to take them on with that full understanding.
What I didn’t understand at that time was just how FUBAR the system is, and how many women are more than willing to take advantage of that system.
I saw my own aunty do it to my uncle. I’ve seen friends emotionally shattered and broken by their cheating whore ex-wives that alienated their children against them and use the legal system to make them pay pay pay for it. And these damn whores face no social or legal consequences for their own selfish choices.
LikeLike
ack… there was supposed to be a “insert oppressed sub-group here” thing before the “-American”
LikeLike
omw —
You’re responding here to a post from Dave from Hawaii. We share some views but are not interchangeable.
As well please stop calling me Douggie.
LikeLike
OMW – Your attitude is EXACLTY what men find so fucking frustrating. You think that just because YOU are happily married, that YOU are committed to your children and that YOU would never do the things to your husband and children, that there is nothing wrong with marriage today.
You have a blind solidarity with your sisterhood that sees you focusing on male malfeasance for the problems with marriage, while giving females a complete pass.
Sorry sister, the reality is that we men today have seen FAR too many examples of unscrupulous women using the power of the State to chain men into financial slavery under what we laughably call “Marriage” in this day and age.
Spare us your condescension. For every honorable, well intentioned woman that takes her marital vows seriously and honors her husband as marriage USED to be, there are literally dozens if not hundreds or thousands of self-centered, entitlement-mentality women in today’s society that don’t give their vows a second thought, and are only far too willing to damage their children by taking them away from their fathers…simply because “they’re not in love anymore.” “We grew apart.” “He wasn’t fulfilling my needs.” “He doesn’t make me happy!”
Fuck that.
LikeLike
@dougjnn,
<blockquote<Should a woman who decides to have children on her own be shamed? Or a woman who’s so irresponsible with birth control, all but one of which methods are under her sole control, that she accidentally gets pregnant without first establishing the commitment of the bio dad? Why shouldn’t she be even more shamed?
Yes, I think both of the above should be shamed. Ultimately, they will answer to their children for their choices.
Mom-on-her-own must face her child to say, “I love you very much but, it was never my intention for you to have a father.”
Irresponsible-with-birth-control mom must face her child to say, ” I had no agreement nor commitment from your father. Ours was a very casual fling, but I am blessed to have you , and love you very much. “
LikeLike
My parents got divorced three years ago, Dave. Ain’t no thing. You want to dump her, do it.
Dads *should* be shamed for failing to provide for their families; even a moron understands that a MAN, a patriarch, a guy whose genes are going places, is the leader and that with this leadership comes heavy responsibility, heavier than the responsibilities of even the woman he has chosen.
All you seem to want is to have your leadership restored. Fine.
But you want your wife to bring home the bacon (she will not respect you as much as she respects her boss, darling!)
You want her to be eternally beautiful, childless if that’s what it takes to preserve her loveliness. (she will not respect you as much if you default on your obligation to make her a mother of many, either!)
If you want to be serious men, men who are not taken lightly, then you have to be serious.
Not whiners. You, Dave and Doug, are both whiners, and this is the reason the mens-rights “movement” never takes off– nobody likes a whiny man.
LikeLike
@cptnapalm
I got what you meant, and I don’t disagree with you. I’m a liberal, I’m a ‘kossack’, and all that, but this election really brought out some ugly stuff within the ‘liberal community.’
But, we’re talking about adopted kids, and don’t people always feel kinda like that with adopted kids? Like, awww, look at how great we are, we saved them from a life of poverty and degradation.
LikeLike
omw:
And the average guy has always lived in some degree of servitude to various people in his life, even including his wife.
What did that used to be called?
Oh, yeah, “responsibility.”
slaveowners used to justify their actions by claiming that the slaves enjoyed being under the whip.
jesus lifted his garments and screeched:
No, but it IS my opinion that if you’re going to base an entire post devoted to the horrors marriage hath wrought upon Brad Pitt
actually, my post is about the horrors marriage brings to all men. brad’s wacko pseudo-marriage and little UN brood was a suitable springboard.
It’s called fact checking, dumbass.
are the obvious risks taken by men who willingly expose themselves to the mercy of the divorce industrial complex by getting married alleviated by pitt’s technicality?
LikeLike
Were the slaveowners entirely wrong, Roissy? Writings by slaves seem to indicate that their relationships with their owners were actually a lot more complex than they’re often painted today.
LikeLike
“(Brad) seems to genuinely care about people of color, as evidenced by his post-Katrina work in New Orleans.”
I believe his verbatim quote was “Katrina was a man-made disaster; THIS is a man-made solution!” as he fawned over the habitat-for-humanity house he spent three hours inside of holding drywall in place. Brad Pitt has been groomed to rationalize away his nutsack to a sexless Ice Queen. No man should admire him.
LikeLike
@ Dave from Hawaii and Dougjnn
I’m co-signing everything omw said at 5:32, and not out of some misplaced gender solidarity.
I’m not married and I don’t have any kids, but I’ve been with my bf for 8 years. As of now, he already feels like he has some responsibility for me, but I don’t. However, once we get married and have kids, the whole thing changes. I am willing to make the ancient vow, to respect him as a patriarch, cook his meals, and make a nice home… but he has to pull his weight, and that’s on the financial end.
I don’t think that’s unfair.
LikeLike
Anyway, I’m not really giving females a complete pass; they’ve senselessly bound themselves to either the corporate world or the government, and no (wo)man can serve two masters.
That your average woman has, at best, a conflicted relationship with private patriarchy but a very comfortable one with the public variety is a phenomenon that starts in the bosom of the public school.
Let the government-school system raise your babies, men, and there is no amount of mens-rights consciousness-raising in the world strong enough to overcome.
LikeLike
Wow thanks very much Roissy – I am honored – your blog is great – all of the guys here in the Office read it and laugh every morning.
Keep up the good work!!!
LikeLike
His wife collects foreign kids like pets. She is certifiable. And he’s with her. It just struck me — He’s a pet.
LikeLike
A guy I am talking to at work is thinking about getting married in us. He brought up a prenump to the girl. She said the normal “are you already planning for this to fail” Yea which means she already thought about the prenump thing and what she would do to get around it. Hell yea he is planning on if it fails. 2 weeks ago the dude was talking about breaking up with her because he thought she might be cheating on him. He probably won’t get prenump he says she is a good girl. I told him today no shit man they always start out as good girls or why the hell would you marry them. It is later on down the road when things change and she will be a different person. Is there a book already written that I can give this dude to try to save his life. Of course yea it is tough to put yourself in the position of the guy who got raped in divorce. You will normally think you are special and your woman is the best.
LikeLike
Were the slaveowners entirely wrong, Roissy?
as to the psychological state of some slaves? perhaps not. but that doesn’t make it right.
I believe his verbatim quote was “Katrina was a man-made disaster; THIS is a man-made solution!”
it’s funny how vapid celebrities get indignant when interviewers ask them about their latest movie or love life when they’d rather discuss their incredibly deep musings on third world poverty. as if they would ever be interviewed by the media about weightier matters if they weren’t already famous movie stars.
or: know your place, pitt.
LikeLike
Where did I say this? I’d be perfectly happy to have a traditional wife that stayed home and raised my children…and loved and respected me as the role of the breadwinner. But thanks to the massive influx of women into the workforce, the DINC, two-income households, it’s almost impossible for a working class man to be able to support his family by himself while wifey stays home to run the house.
Quit attacking a strawman. I made no such argument. I’d be more than happy to have a non-perfect wife, who has stretchmarks and even a little leftover pregnancy weight gain (but not alot…) as a fair trade off for a loving, supportive wife that raises my children and honors and respects me as a Father and an integral role in their lives.
It is you that have not taken anything substantive that I’ve written seriously. You have not addressed all of the DEADLY serious points I made. You just continued your female-centric WHINE that we men are whiners.
@omw
“Were the slaveowners entirely wrong, Roissy? Writings by slaves seem to indicate that their relationships with their owners were actually a lot more complex than they’re often painted today.”
Complexity doesn’t change the situation. Take regular rape vs date rape. One’s simple, one’s more complex, both suck, and it’s possible that the former sucks less than the latter.
LikeLike
Roissy —
Could not disagree more.
First off, almost all men will never be Brad Pitt. Having (the right kind) of wife gives life-long companionship, children that bring joy, support and love, and deep emotional ties and love that last long after physical attraction and indeed strength and youth fade.
What DOES matter with Pitt is how important it is for a man to choose the RIGHT woman. Clooney is a sad case who will probably end up a joke, like Hefner, alone, no kids, various caretakers masquerading as “girlfriends” and so on.
Pitt chose unwisely, seduced by “hotness” instead of thinking: what will she be like when she ages, what is her character, her intelligence, her decency, her compassion, her stability, and ability to be a lifelong companion while we are both old and ugly?
Yes a man will age less than a woman for longer, however no one can reasonably claim that Sean Connery or Hugh Hefner now are “sexy.” Or Jack Nicholson for that matter. Pierce Brosnan is reasonably happy with his wife, who is no raging beauty, but Brosnan himself is he admits a middle aged man battling fat around the middle.
The answer is not don’t get married. The answer is, only marry the “right” woman who you have carefully considered as to all those qualities above, and can feel very confident that you will care for even when she is fat and ugly (which you yourself will be one day as well). Pitt thought with something else than his brain and paid the price.
I will agree, finding the correct woman to marry is very, very hard. But that is a different subject.
LikeLike
That chart is the best I’ve seen in awhile. Udolpho would be proud.
I think the main diff between Brad Pitt and George Clooney (or Cary Grant) is that Pitt is blonde and blue-eyed, while Clooney and Grant are dark.
Just like in those Russian silver foxes that Belyaev bred, lighter pigmentation means more domesticated.
LikeLike
Hey, the feminists always claim that the old style of marriage IS slavery; the analogy seems solid enough to me.
So I have no serious philosophical problem with slavery. ‘Tis as Biblical as wifely submission, which is a fundamental part of my own faith tradition.
But I realize this is controversial.
LikeLike
<iThe evidence is clear. Your best bet as a man is to NOT GET MARRIED. JUST SAY NO. DON’T DO IT. ARE YOU CRAZY?
I was at a wedding last Saturday and as I was telling someone I work with that I was going to be attending a wedding on Saturday my comment was, “Glad it’s not ME!!”. Not all women want to trap men into marriage. My ex-lover had it made in the shade with me because I wanted love (to give AND get, thank you very much) but not marriage. I don’t want or need marriage for the simple reason that is makes people feel trapped and obligated to each other. Some people can overcome that, I suppose. More power to them. But when a relationship is a true conscious daily choice and a true decision to love and stay together has been made, it has far more value than a legal contract.
LikeLike
even a moron understands that a MAN, a patriarch, a guy whose genes are going places, is the leader and that with this leadership comes heavy responsibility, heavier than the responsibilities of even the woman he has chosen.
This sort of model requires a very strict division of labor between the man and the woman that today very few women will accept. It would also require government to stop lavishing externalities on women that make single motherhood an attractive and affordable option.
LikeLike
Roissy,
“as if they would ever be interviewed by the media about weightier matters if they weren’t already famous movie stars.”
He said something to the effect of, ‘That’s not what I’m down here for’, which I thought was fair, cuz Larry didn’t come all the way to New Orleans to talk about Jennifer Aniston… or did he?
LikeLike
OMW – You have written quite a few things on this blog that I agree with…like the public indoctrination of public schooling, and what little criticisms you have given of feminists.
But on this topic, you are continuing the feminist trope that marriage is in trouble..and it is men that are the reason.
And old marriage was slavery?
Really?
When the vast majority of husbands and fathers were blue collar workers in hazardous occupations? The men that worked to support their stay at home wives and raise their children by the sweat of their brow and the very real danger of maiming or death on the job? The coal miners, manufacturers, fisherman, loggers, construction workers and such that often got maimed and killed just so they can earn a living to support their families?
Just who was the slave for who back in the “bad old Patriarchal days?”
Hell, in this day and age of “Equality” it is still a fact that 95% of all workplace fatalities are men.
Feminists didn’t want true equality for women to work…only equality in the white collar world. Men always have, and continue to do, the majority of the dirty and dangerous work of society.
LikeLike
Oh, Dave, of course women get a free pass on whining. It’s part of the package deal. Men have complained about female whining since the dawn of time, to no apparent effect. 😉 Adapt and overcome.
The thing is, you can’t wait for the entire system to become your idea of “perfect” before you jump in. Your choice is to go for the glory or let your line die out.
Either is fine, but some of y’all want to have it both ways. Ain’t gonna happen.
You’re just going to have to be the change you seek.
Even if it means moving off your outrageously expensive rock to support your wife properly in a cheaper area. 😉
LikeLike
Looks like Angelina fell asleep on a newspaper.
I wouldn’t kick her out of bed, but we all know she’s solidly in MILF land with Rockin’ Grandma Madonna beckoning from next door. Too bad Brad Pitt didn’t think of the superstar who married her camera man to raise kids: Julia Roberts. Better luck next time. And congrats to the camera man.
LikeLike
Traditional marriage was slavery insofar as men could (in theory) change jobs, start their own businesses, own property, vote, all that other ridiculous business.
But a woman had but one choice, made irrevocably, early in life, and then was stuck with it for the rest of her life.
Of course, anybody’s actual level of freedom is highly dependent on what end of the social totem pole one occupies, but that’s sort of a separate issue.
Feminists were (and are) traditionally upper-middle-class because it always rankles intelligent society-ladies to get stuck overseeing petty domestic disputes while their husbands were out doing much more interesting things.
You find much less feminism among your lower classes, but they aren’t the ones who set the terms of the debate, now, are they?
LikeLike
It seems to me that your average divorcing dad would just as soon let Mom deal with the brats on a day-to-day basis; that he grumbles mightily about cutting the check every month means nothing at all to most people I know.
This seems pretty accurate to me. I like kids (I’m a teacher, after all), but I’m honestly not interested in the kind of intense round the clock care that they seem to require, and which most women seem to have no problem providing. Should I every have kids, I will be quite happy to shunt off the bulk of the grunt work to the wife. Not that I won’t be happy to bring in the relief as needed.
As men, we just tend to be less invested in our kids. There are sound evolutionary reasons for this, but I don’t have time to write them out. This isn’t just feminist propaganda.
LikeLike
Dave, good point. Will a marriage to someone from a broken home really last? Better be sure.
(Overlooking the little fact that marriage is such a ridiculously stacked chump’s game these days it’s hard to take seriously.)
LikeLike
OMW and Chloe —
I agree with all that Dave from Hawaii said in this last, 5:36 post. Hell I agree completely with everything he’s said today.
Enthusiastically.
Also this “whinners” business is utter crap. We’re both pissed as hell for good reason.
Further neither of us are pissed about our personal situations. We’re angry, really angry, about the state of domestic law. It has fundamental effects.
Neither of us would want to leave a marriage esp. one with kids — in fact I feel confident in speaking for Dave as well in saying we’d both do a hell of a lot to avoid that. (A marriage without kids, esp. a young and short one is another thing, and that breaking up is much less serious — and should involve NO payments from the guy to the girl — but also often doesn’t, or not too much.)
So don’t talk to us about avoiding responsibilities. We want to avoid being potentially placed in indentured servitude by a woman who leaves a marriage with kids for no sufficient reason, and gets paid big time to do so, even if she’s been incredibly at fault – e.g. cheating outrageously and consequently falling completely out of love, or blowing up like a beach ball and losing all interest in sex.
We’re both mad that women have a huge cudgel of divorce in which they rob us blind to hold over our heads (so e.g. we don’t inconsequentially just sex cheat) — while we have that same cudgel of divorce in which she robs us blind to hold over her head.
As VK says, wait, what?
Hell what threat do no pre-nup men have to prevent a so inclined wife from cheating without limit, even bearing one of their lover’s kids? No much. We can and would divorce her — and pay through the nose to be rid of her.
THAT is the state of American marriage today.
Disgustingly one sided — when and if any American wife wants it to be. By force of law. Aided by media molded culture.
LikeLike
Oh…and the husband wasn’t “stuck” as well?
That’s half the fucking point.
When marriage was a serious responsibility for both men and women, BOTH were mutually invested in making each other mutually happy or mutually miserable in their marriage.
Now, men are the only ones who must ENSURE that they keep their wives happy, or she gets to lower the boom of the divorce court industry and chain him into indentured servitude.
LikeLike
Yes, they were both stuck in the marriage itself, but the woman’s whole career *was* the marriage.
She couldn’t have a miserable marriage AND a successful career, which her husband could, and often did.
LikeLike
Thursday–
I agree completely. I thought of saying similar, but had other fish to fry.
Further like you I’m proud that I feel that way. This feminist idea that men should feel guilty if they’re not just as much care givers to their kids is utter crap, like so much of the rest of their cannon. But many men do partly conform, and then feel guilty and are subject to manipulation for that reason, to the extent they don’t.
When kids get older the role of dad often increases quite a lot, which is also natural and appropriate.
LikeLike
OMW, this is pure feminist indoctrination in which you have wholeheartedly swallowed.
No man ever said on his death bed “I wish I had spent more time on the job instead of spending it with my family.”
Let me tell you something…one thing about marriage is 100% true, than or now: the State of a marriage, happy or miserable, is pretty much almost entirely in a women’s power to control.
The miserably married mad with a successful career is in no way “happier” than a happily married man struggling in his career.
LikeLike
So, yes, a woman was often more invested in keeping the marriage happy “back when,” because she was the one with no real alternatives.
On the other hand, she could expect to be taken care of financially for a lifetime; not many young men are interested in a woman who expects this now.
They prefer that her boss take care of her instead. So they get women who are more tenuously attached to them.
Shrug. I don’t see this changing anytime soon. Even a bad economy drives more women into the workforce, where they form allegiances to the outside world instead of their husbands.
What are you going to do?
LikeLike
To all ladies: we often here wives and ex-wives standard complaints about their men: he is/was a workaholic!
Ask yourself this in all honesty: is he truly an OCD worker…or is it that he’d rather be slaving away extra hours at work rather than come home to the bitch that makes his life miserable with whining, complaining, a list of chores to make sure they are ‘sharing the domestic load equally?”
No man willingly stays at work more than he has to knowing he’s coming home to a happy, loving and attentive wife who is pleasant company and has just cooked him a tasty dinner.
LikeLike
@dougjnn and dave,
I’ve wondered on a a 20-year solution. A child-raising contract. The purpose of marriage is to raise children. After that , a couple could renew or not, at their discretion. A 20 year contract ensures the highest level of commitment to the children, precludes the parents from taking each other for granted, and keeps them on their best behavior to each other.
LikeLike
Well, if it’s entirely natural that women should provide care, why are you complaining about paying for it, Doug?
All divorce does under those circumstances is free both parties up to remarry if they like, keeping the previous household arrangements mostly intact.
Is child support more expensive than hiring a nanny and keeping the kids at your house?
LikeLike
Vlad
My source of joy will be my devoted 24 year old girlfriend. Same as always.
I’ll wake up in the morning happy to be holding her.
Same as always. New year, new girl. Same as always.
LikeLike
I dunno, Dave; my husband ain’t what you’d call a workaholic.
LikeLike
@dave,
I can speak with lots of experience on that topic. My husband spends excess time at work, typically 7am-midnight because
-he allows his partners to dump on him
-he can not say NO to his patients, partners, nor administrative overlords
-he lacks the spine to look people in the face and say NO
I point out that every time he says YES to others, he is saying NO to his family.
LikeLike
Calling all bets…
What are the odds that Roissy is unemployed?
LikeLike
Hypothetical situation – if everyone in the world were like this blog and laws were changed to suit the posters here – there would be no marriages, and very rarely would there be kids. Most women wouldn’t bother with kids since they would just expect most men to walk away and not help out. Human civilization would just die out.
LikeLike
Simple. Mindfuck them and physically fuck them until they are head over heels in love with you. Make them insanely and constantly in love with you. Forever. Become completely unforgettable and the best they’ve ever had or ever will.
That’s my recipe.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii–
No man should even consider sharing the domestic load equally unless their wife is working an equal number of equally taxing hours and bringing home an equal amount of money.
Then if that’s the case he should figure out how he let that happen, and get her to at least cut back, and restore the natural order of things.
If you don’t want a beta and getting worse relationship, that is.
LikeLike
Dave, you misunderstand me.
These were the “bad old days,” before the rise of career women and no-fault divorce.
If, say, Bill and Sally marry at age 21, and quickly develop a mutual antipathy, tough luck, right?
No divorce is available without severe blowback from the community they are both bound to.
Despite their antagonism, children arrive in quick succession. Sally is left at home to deal with the brood, under the close eye of her mother-in-law, everyone in her church, and the town gossip.
In accordance with ancient tradition, Bill rules the household– he dictates how much she is allowed to spend, who she may speak to, where she may go, what she may wear. Literally her entire life is within the domestic sphere, the boundaries of which are set by Bill, who she hates herself for choosing with every fiber of her being.
Meanwhile, Bill, while also fervently wishing he’d remained a bachelor, gets a chance to escape every day; business trips and a private office and friendships with colleagues allow him a life outside the strained relation with Sally, perhaps even a chance for romance with a wayward secretary, no?
His early choice does not necessarily constrain his entire life.
That is what was meant by that statement. It doesn’t hold now that the legal and theological face of marriage is so radically transformed, but…
LikeLike
Ah, xsplat, let me know how that works out in the long term. Not that the long term matters to you, of course.
And that is ok with me.
LikeLike
You guys are bumming me out reminding me of my previous incarceration in domesticity.
Shudder.
Sharing the domestic load. Ha. Never. Again.
I haven’t had any such conversation since going to Asia, and no one would dare try to have such a conversation with me. No one would think of it.
If I’m keeping a live in, she has her duties, and I make damn sure she doesn’t get lazy about them. If I’m dating several girls, I tidy my own place, and hire a maid. There is never any discussion about who has what responsibility. The very idea is repugnant to me.
Never. Again.
LikeLike
Anyway, Doug, you are still whining! If you don’t want to have kids, then don’t.
If you do, then do it up right. It isn’t cheap or easy, whether you are married or divorced, you know.
What does it help to complain that a bunch of DC lawyer-chick types fail to live up to your vision of the ideal woman? It is to laugh. They certainly ARE laughing.
It is no different than some idiot woman complaining that the hot guy she shagged in the alleyway behind the local biker bar is turning out to be a very disappointing father.
Ridiculous!
LikeLike
OMW–
.
Even though you distance yourself from some leftist feminist thought, you’re utterly immersed in it OMW, Dave and I keep pointing out to you. Without that making much of a dent.
I’m NOT complaining about paying for it OMW so long as she remains my wife. I’ve said I wouldn’t divorce a woman who bore me kids we agreed to have unless she was extremely at fault and wouldn’t stop being. I would not divorce the mother of my children for a just sex affair which she was willing to stop — though that would be extremely dangerous because of the much greater threat that with women that it wouldn’t stay just sex, and that even if she didn’t leave me for him (because e.g. he was married and wanted to stay married, or was otherwise uninterested), the odds are strong that her falling in love with another man would preclude her ever romantically or sexually loving me again. If that became true then eventually I might. Or myself have a full on love affair.
What I don’t want to do is pay a woman at fault for the divorce money I’ve earned and saved, or alimony called child support. I would help out directly with my kids. My decisions, my choices, my say so. But yes I really would support them in that way. Unless as I’ve said she left me when they were just infants. Then maybe not. I’d start over an have a real live together family if I was kids inclined.
This would cut down on the rate of American divorce, which easily “leads” the world, enormously. Hell me might even get similar to e.g. France in divorce rates, under my rules.
LikeLike
I’m not sure what you mean about the long term, OMW. THIS is the long term. There is only now.
I don’t live for tomorrow. How could possibly enjoy life if I was living for the long term?
This, right here, right now, is the long term. Today is the long term.
I’m 43. That’s been a fairly long term. Maybe I’ll get another 43 years. I’ll make as many of them as possible include twenty something girls.
i live for twenty something girls.
it’s pretty simple.
LikeLike
Abso-mother-fucking-lutely.
Marriage used to be an “institution” based on a mutual responsibility that was focused on raising your kids.
That means you put your mutual “antipathy” to the side and at least acted respectful in front of the kids, kept your infidelities a secret (if you did have them) and raised your kids to adulthood with a relatively normalized portrait of normal, low-conflict family life.
Instead, under the guise of “he doesn’t make me happy” we now have epidemic of divorce, the misery of fatherless children inflicting their psychological damage onto the rest of society or just killing themselves, and all the other attendant social ills that can be traced directly back to the rise in divorce.
Let’s not be naive here.
Divorce, though rare, was never illegal. And in fact, it was “at fault.” If a husband beat his wife, cheated on her flagrantly, abused the kids and blew all the family money on gambling, I doubt you’d find a man here that would be upset if she divorced him and got the farm for his violations of the wedding vows.
Also, back in the bad old days, in the era of extended families, a husband or boyfriend knew damn well if he abused his wife or girlfriend, her dad, uncles, cousins and/or brothers would show him what the fuck was up.
Ode – your husband needs to man up if he’s allowing himself to be taken advantage of….but then, as I said, would he rather call you up and tell you “I’m sorry dear, I can’t come home, my co-workers dumped it all on me again” than come home and here a shrill shrieking shrew about how he’s never home and always choosing his work over his family?
If you are being that pleasant wife he should want to come home to, than your admonishment is certainly warranted.
LikeLike
You didn’t answer my question, though– is paying an ex-wife for the business end of raising children cheaper, or more expensive, than hiring a nanny and doing the rest of it yourself?
Once the babies are born, they are your responsibility– this goes for both parents.
Life isn’t about what YOU want once they arrive, and this is an idea that both sexes refuse stubbornly to accustom themselves to.
LikeLike
Yes, but the extended family is largely an artifact of the past, Dave; you cannot be surprised that the government (our new “family”) steps in where the family has gone the wayside.
LikeLike
Dougjnn,
“We want to avoid being potentially placed in indentured servitude by a woman who leaves a marriage with kids for no sufficient reason, and gets paid big time to do so, even if she’s been incredibly at fault”
I understand this, and I don’t fault you. I was gonna say this earlier, but I deleted it: stop marrying money-whores.
A woman may change over the years, but there are early, easily discernible, signs that a given woman will try to take you to the cleaners, should anything ever go wrong. You know what I’m talking about, the Prada girls. And if this is the kind of woman you marry, you get what you deserve. She’ll see the relationship as a job, and when it’s over, she’ll want her severance and her retirement.
LikeLike
Teenagers are cool too, of course.
I once tried to have a serious relationship with a 44 year old woman, when I was 33. Drove me crazy.
I’m sorry. The facts are hard and brutal and cold.
Men take great pleasure from young women.
Young. Age is a horrid brute, to women. Not so much so for men.
LikeLike
This is where you are failing to see the basic point doug and I have been getting at. Which came first, the decline of the family or the intervention into the family structure by the government?
LikeLike
For all of the posters disagreeing with my observations.
1) Pitt and Jolie are now married in Common Law, it doesn’t matter if they haven’t had the ceremony. They have co-habitated long enough and the Kids handcuff him into the deal for life.
2) Google up ANY recent picture of Pitt. Compare 100 photos and you will see that the spark in his eyes has GONE.
3) Its not about the money. Unlike 99.99% of men Pitt can probably get out with minimal financial/lifestyle disruption but like 100% of men he risks never seeing his kids again. The sword of Damocles is always over his head and will swing in time with his exes mood swings.
4) Marriage is not just about kids – its about supporting women when they can no longer work (i.e. from around 45 years of age). The longer the marriage strike continues the poorer all you single women are going to be in old age.
4a) Go to any shopping mall midweek / midday anywhere in the world and you’ll see heards of 50+yo women gleefully milling around doing nothing spending money having coffee and cake etc etc……
Single women of today – Your future will not look anything like this!!!
Behind every one of these women is a working husband, you wont have one, you will be screwed! It will be Spam on toast for dinner and Sharia law for breakfast!!
LikeLike
And yes, the rise of individualism with the concomitant decline of tribalism drives the train– but this is the same font that gave us the abolition of slavery, universal suffrage, globalization, repeal of the Comstock laws, abortion on demand, feminism, the civil rights movement, the 1965 immigration act….
Roissy’s crew, generally speaking, is very selective about which of those things to disdain.
But hell, who isn’t?
lol.
LikeLike
Max, why not put some of those so-called 100’s of pics you looked up here so we can judge for ourselves.
LikeLike
OMW
Only under Western feminist law are they his responsibility if she decides to leave him and wants to take the children with her, and he lets her. In many places like Latin America not to mention China or the Muslim world etc. that’s up to him. They might not even be his responsibility if he leaves her, esp. if he has any good reason for doing so.
This idea that a man is obligated to support his children and in part his ex wife if she decides to leave him, no matter what, is ENTIRELY and EXCLUSIVELY a American (and UK) feminist invention.
LikeLike
The essential question, and i believe the gov’t intervention/resucuing led to loss of personal/family responsibility.
LikeLike
Why is my comment at 6:49 still awaiting moderation?
LikeLike
Good question, Dave! Some people think a cabal of Jews is behind all of it. haha.
No, really.
Personally, I blame the rise of the middle class.
It doesn’t take a lot of money or many generations to get separated from the blood-and-guts realities behind traditional human societies.
But hardly anyone has the stomach to reclaim ALL of that heritage. It’s a tough life.
So we pick and choose which elements of it benefit us the most, and bewail their deaths as they pass.
LikeLike
OMW —
The basic marriage contract in the Eurasian world has always been that in return for full wifely services, which included regular and fairly frequent sex (whether or not she always felt like it) and taking care of the house and kids, and maybe some domestic related work as well (e.g. some farm work or cottage industry type work), men brought in most or all of the livelihood and thus supporter his wife and the children she would in the great majority of cases and by expectation, naturally have.
It was never or very rarely the case that just because he inseminated some slut or whorish woman, or a wife who runs off with another, that he had to still support them and her.
Not until glorious American feminism and it’s oppression of men, that is.
LikeLike
Yes, Doug, but if the wife leaves, (and lacks the resources to feed them, which is generally the case) the kids are then the husband’s responsibility, just as they always were.
Except that now he’s out a wife to tend them. A substitute, generally more expensive, is required.
cf. Anna Karenina. Karenin is you classic “beta” husband, but Karenin gets the kid when Anna leaves him; only because of his social class can he afford to keep the kid cared-for without a mother.
An average peasant would have been in a much, much tighter spot sans wife, wouldn’t he?
LikeLike
He looks good here:
and here:
LikeLike
No, he didn’t have to support HER, but he did get stuck raising the kids all alone if she ran off.
It’s true that most women won’t blatantly run off with another man if the consequence includes losing her kids, though. This is why I think men should get the kids, all the kids.
You’re a patriarch, right?
LikeLike
Naa the average peasent would just have his sister raise kid no big deal.
LikeLike
The average peasant has a brother-in-law who doesn’t take a lot of shit, either, Gunslinger.
LikeLike
Where you miss the extended family part of the equation for the “old” days and yes men should take the kids all the kids and raise them.
LikeLike
Have you met many average peasants. You probably think you would be better than them your not.
LikeLike
Extended family assistance comes with a LOT of strings attached, Gun.
A lot.
God, they make dealing with a government office look like a breeze by comparison. hehe.
“What, your wife ran off with Dmitri? That Dmitri? You can’t keep a woman at home, huh, Sven. I always knew you were a pitiful wreck.
Yeah, I’ll watch your kids this week, but I can’t afford to feed your whole brood, you miserable moron!
Hey, go mow my back forty acres, wouldja?”
LikeLike
Nah, I’m from peasant stock myself. 😉
LikeLike
The thing I really dont understand is this…
Personally I would love to be rich enough to afford a butler, chauffer, handyman, security guard, and gardener at my beck and call.
Married women get all of these for FREE!
Plus many free hours during the day to “see their personal trainer” if they feel the need to.
How can they POSSIBLY be unhappy – marriage is a GREAT deal for them!
LikeLike
Yes, it seems to be the case that here in SE Asia children are handed around among the extended family, and a father is not always the provider, nor even always expected to be the provider.
And some girls choose to have kids without expecting the man to be the provider.
I’ve been offered that option several times, but have declined, as if I ever choose to drop babies I’ll prefer to give a shit about the kid, and don’t much respect the village education.
Humans are more complicated than rabbits, and having a kid is a responsibility. A father is important to a kid. It would be irresponsible to drob babies off in villages, and I’d feel badly about myself to do that. Thus the abortifactants and abortions.
If I ever have a kid again, he’ll not be neglected and handed off between relatives. The extended family network that Asians use is quite useful and gives a lot of freedom to the individuals, but some kids wind up as little more than street urchins, with only loose ties to their parents, and no real strong father figure to guide and mold them.
LikeLike
OMW–
Not so much. In most cases he’d get himself a new, replacement wife.
Otherwise the kids would have to fill in some of her domestic chores duties.
The reality of child support today OMW is that it’s mostly ex wife support. It helps her pay her rent or her mortgage and her car. It’s not mostly about their marginal costs, particularly not for high earners. It’s way higher than that.
If she leaves she should be solely responsible for the roof over her and their head, and the car she drives, etc.
If she can’t afford it maybe she’d better make the marriage work.
Like they do much more in other countries not blessed with hyper American feminism.
LikeLike
Chloe
If your comment contained a web link then it may be held for moderation (to prevent link spamming).
LikeLike
Mmm, finding a willing replacement WIFE is much easier than finding a replacement mommy– any dude with sole custody can tell you that.
Our current system relieves men of having to find replacement mommies. This is why it will never be changed; it benefits them even as they complain about the expense.
But, it is true that there have always been men wealthy enough to keep the first wife “on staff” for childcare, while getting a new wife every so often. Soft polygamy, isn’t that what it is?
The big wage-earners have enough clout to fix it if they wanted to, but they’re the ones winning big.
LikeLike
OMW, Ode, Chloe, Sara, all other female lurkers–
You know what really disgusts me. In all the times that Roissy’s written about the unfairness of American divorce law to men, it’s often shear outrageous oppressiveness, and through all the comments of men supporting him with arguments and sometimes examples, their own or reported in the news, etc., ****
I’ve never ONCE seen a woman agree to a specific change in the law, much less offer one.
They all too completely selfish.
In contrast as feminism was rolling along to change old divorce law, men often did agree and ofter up things that worked against men and in favor of women for fairness. Then women took that and ran with it, further and further.
So that now men can be and are ordered to pay child support for their ex wives lovers child, which she fraudulently pretended was his.
Disgusting. Simply disgusting.
LikeLike
OMW–
NO, I assure you, we do not.
LikeLike
I’ve knows girls to simply abandon their kids to their relatives in order to run off with another man.
LikeLike
Wrong OMW. Under the current regime, Men, children, and whether they know it or not, Women are the real losers. The nuclear family, the one time bedrock of civilization, is the loser.
The only winner in the current debacle is THE GOVERNMENT and it’s ever expanding reach into the citizens private lives, destroying the nuclear family and creating an entire class of citizens dependent on the government.
Divorce instills the mindset in children and women that it’s perfectly acceptable for an outside authority to step in and arbitrate family grievances.
That a judge determines what limited amount of time is good for a father to spend with his children.
That under the law, the only obligation fatherhood entails is a child support check.
You simply cannot overcome this femi-centric mindset.
Our current system is far more likely to result in the mommy finding a replacement lover while the father is forced by the law keep his role of provider. Mommy gets to screw the pool boy, kick daddy out of the house with a false domestic violence complaint, than make him pay for her lifestyle, otherwise he gets jailed for being a deadbeat.
THIS IS HOW IT IS NOW.
You continue to justify, rationalize and excuse this current reality by the supposed hypothetical situations of unhappy women trapped in the slavery of bad old patriarchal marriage.
LikeLike
You posed this OMW “This is why I think men should get the kids, all the kids. ”
To show that somehow woman were needed as some kind of thing a guy couldn’t handle. The thing is guys can handle almost anything. My dad raised my little sister by himself and supported himself bought a house with no child support from my mom and no extended family around (0 help). He has 17 brothers and sisters but they all moved away for work “career” Now imagine that senario with extended family to help too easy. Imagaine if they would have worked together to build something “unstoppable”. Like I said woman ain’t bringing shit to the table in marriage even though they are supposed to be so enlightened and “equal”
LikeLike
Just saw this. In Australia, cheating husbands will now have to pay support to their mistresses after they break up:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25122258-2862,00.html
LikeLike
dougjnn- just cause you didn’t see it, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I’ve talked about it to some extent, and the Fathers for Justice movement in the UK. Possibly under another name. There’s massive gender discrimination especially in divorce, and I’m not happy with that unequality, especially when kids don’t get to see their often lovely/blameless dads and a man gets milked ridiculously for money. I remember watching in disbelief Alan in Two and A Half Men; I was thinking… no way. It’s a comedy, maybe it’s hyperbole?
In addition to this, there’re a lot of offensive generalisations about women that usually go with anti-divorce law rants, so excuse a girl if she ain’t in the mood to put up for your gender.
LikeLike
That would leave no alternative but to kill now wouldn’t it. Definetly not about womans safety that is for sure.
LikeLike
“as if they would ever be interviewed by the media about weightier matters if they weren’t already famous movie stars.”
jon stewart blasts CNBC’s financial journalism. ben affleck blames the bank bailout on newsweek. obama is optimistic about “profit to earning ratios” (although the ‘actual’ P/E ratio for the DJI would price it around 5500).
brad pitt is the present-day peter keating. he deserves misery for the cultural bankruptcy he perpetuates. we’re living in a full-blown mediaocracy that is collapsing by the day. someday soon, some celebrity is going to suggest a cake diet a la marie antoinette. the bastille of my psyche is already hungry.
LikeLike
Bhetti B-
I appreciate that.
And I live / love many kinds of women, but certainly not all kinds. I’m not talking about just for sex either.
LikeLike
I’m in a sharing mood today:
My parents got divorced when I was about ten years old. For my life up to that point, I was raised along with my brother and sister by our stay-at-home mom while our father worked pretty long hours. From what I’ve pieced together from memory and dragged out of my father and grandparents, at some point my mother started drinking heavily and messed around with painkillers/anti-depressants and probably a few other things.
My Dad put her through Alcoholics Anonymous, and generally tried to make the marriage work, but alcoholics are not known for their reasonableness, and they would fight . Finally, they separated, and my Dad basically followed the textbook on how not to handle a divorce. Left the house to live with his father, left the car, etc. My mother ended up making a completely baseless assault charge, and got the house, car, money and alimony. And of course full custody of me and my siblings.
In the next 3 years we lived in maybe 10 places – shitty apartments in bad areas, women’s shelters, my mother’s parents’ house – while my dad worked 80 hour weeks living in his father’s basement to pay for 1) alimony and 2) legal fees to keep fighting for custody in court. This whole time, he was seeing his three kids for a day or two every month, hearing about our mother’s continued alcoholism, crazy boyfriends, and general parental neglect. The courts repeatedly decided that our alcoholic, unstable, permanent welfare-recipient mother was a better caregiver than our father, possibly one of the most responsible men I’ve ever known.
Finally, after an some incidents that I can’t even bring myself to share anonymously, my father won full custody of us. Since then, he has been literally the best parent I have even heard of in my life, working 7 days a week while raising three kids on his own, driving us to whatever sport or activity we ever wanted to try etc. He was and is an incredibly decent and principled man.
A few years ago, as I was getting ready to leave home for school, I took my mother up on an offer to go through her storage unit for any furniture I might want. I found a few boxes of feminist books, correspondence, and journals written by my mother which showed a clear link between her conversion to radical feminism and a ruined decade in the lives of me and my family.
So yeah, I won’t be getting married any time soon.
LikeLike
like / love
LikeLike
Sounds like people need to make better judgments about who they get married to. It’s not marriage that is bad, it’s the people who trivialize it.
LikeLike
Zdeno —
Thanks for sharing that no doubt painful story.
And outrageous story as per how long it took the courts to go the right way on custody, after already screwing him over in everything else.
I’m sure after your dad got custody that your mother began paying child support, right? And that they system hounded her and then imprisoned her when she failed to urn as much as she could urn by working diligently up to her full and improving abilities — as it does with men. Am I right?
A high proportion of married women that are full or borderline alcoholics and esp. if they mix that with painkillers, slut around on their husbands as well. I’m not talking about “just” and affair, but slutting around, sometimes big time and luridly.
LikeLike
@dougjnn,
I really have little experience with the particulars of divorce. I’m reading along here ,and have sympathy with the view that men feel at financial risk in marriage. I understand the desire to eliminate “no fault” status, and that this would shift the power away from women. However, your statements are always laced with the desire for husbands to have sex outside the marriage, “faultless” , this would be crippling for wives.
LikeLike
the other winners are lesbians and population control freaks—the ones who began the second wave feminism debates.
Pop. control freaks win because career women/divorced women have smaller families,a nd their children less like to breed and more likely to kill them selves through violence.
Lesbians win because female sexuality, as Roissy has shown, is malleable by action, not looks. Since a 45 year old single divorcee is at the bottom of any man’s dating pool, a butch can swoop in, pour a few cocktails down the throat, blame men for anything, and get an Ani DiFranco lover.
The influence of lesbians in deliberately destroying the nuclear family through feminism is far too understated. It is a real, concentrated threat, as real and concentrated as the use of Hollywood as a propaganda machine for the gay agenda as a whole.
LikeLike
Whats funny bhetti is guys are made to pay these monthly payments but companies no longer are expected to give the guys who work their retirement checks. Can anyone else imagine that we live in times like these. It has got to be close to the end of the world. Because obviously we aren’t improving with age. Just got a call from my ex. Got a 4 and a half year old that is not mine. Thank God she did not saddle me with a kid she had the decency to go and have another guy father it. I am like you should work extra to save money so maybe you two can get a little ahead of the game. She said you can’t do that when you have a little 4 year old to take care of. I was like isn’t that why you should work some extra to achieve something for the kid. Same woman that did not work when we were together with no kid and I was in army. Man imagine if I was that guy. Think I prob would have been able to blow my head off then. They will live their whole lives and never get ahead of working to survive at the mercy of employers.
LikeLike
No, I’m not really excusing anything; divorce is, on balance, very, very bad for civilized society.
And, Doug, I do offer a specific legal remedy: make fathers the sole custodians, and let mothers walk with not so much as a dime or a weekend visit.
The men always squirm at the idea, claim it’s impossible.
But it’s not more impossible than eliminating no-fault altogether, is it now?
But we live, even now, amid some of the greatest affluence the world has ever seen, and our social customs are beginning to reflect this.
The vices of the super-rich have trickled down, in a rather debased form, to the lower classes; chaos has resulted.
Because we CAN afford certain things (serial monogamy isn’t possible for most people without reliable birth control and outside employment) we do them.
And there isn’t a force in the world capable of stopping it unless the gravy train really does run out. We like our “freedom.”
Even Doug, who claims to be a wealthy man, is impotent in the face of these forces. Funny, that. And sad.
LikeLike
Ode to the Married Man —
Not so Ode.
I don’t think married men should be able to fall in love with another woman and think they should have to break it off immediately and completely if they did. Nor do I think they should do so openly and notoriously, though if she tells her gfs and they make it open and notorious, that’s on her. Nor do I think he should allow any outside dalliance to let him slide into neglecting his wife. Nor do I think men should do it all the time, or devote huge energy to it. I think it should be fairly rare.
What makes it so devestating to women if done as I’m suggesting, is that they think it does and equally importantly all their friends do. I.e. it’s the current feminist culture, preceded on this and other divorce related issues by another fifty or more years before semi or proto feminist culture in America and to some extent in the UK.
It wasn’t always so and it isn’t now so in some subcultures. But don’t get me wrong. If a man ignores most or really any of my qualifiers it becomes increasingly devestating regardless of the culture.
LikeLike
omw
But no child support from the walking woman either, right omw? Unlike now for men of course.
LikeLike
But you think it should be the man’s decision as to whether or not his emotions are “in check,” or, if they are not, whether he should feed his previous children, don’t you, darling?
Anyway, if he IS screwing around, surely it’s his wife’s fault, right?
One can see why the early feminists were so bleeding fed up.
LikeLike
P.s. as a corollary to Roissy, if you feel like you absolutely *have* to get married—marry a religious girl. generally, whatever religion you were raised, or whatever religion you find attractive.
Find a girl who goes to church/synagoge/mosque at least once a week, and keeps holy days. Preferably one from conservative philosophies—i.e. keeps off meat for all of lent (Catholic), never even utters the word “God” (Jewish), won’t even set foot in a bar that serves alcohol (Muslim), and wears a head covering (hat, scarf, etc.) usually (any religion, really).
Find one that dresses conservatively and isn’t “advertising the goods. ” Goes to bed by 10 every night. Tries to get you to go to church with her. Etc. One for whome religion is a big part of her life, who couldn’t imagine marrying a man not her religion or raising her kids outside it.
These women are still women, mind you, so amoral naturally, but they now adhere to an ultimate moral authority–God. these women crave the order and regularity and rules of religion, and listen to the tenants: take care of house, home, children, and husband. they don’t mind giving up sex to you because God wills it and she wants to be a good wife.
These women never look for outs from a marriage—their marriage is their life, and a sacred vow.
But don’t be fooled by C&E Catholics and their religious likenesses–those women who attend church on holy days only. And beware those who say I’m a feminist/leftist (insert religion); these are just women with strong libidos, weak minds, and a willingness to cheat/divorce for feminism’s sake, yet will still go to church. Watch for business suits, career-goals, and child limitations.
Religious girls have none of these red flags.
Should men ever want the nuclear family back, religion is the way. It has long been used to fight society’s break ups. Conservative religious practice always triumphs over liberalized feelings on God. Feelings trump logic with women; religion dominates their feeling, to the family’s advantage; therefore, run to it.
LikeLike
No, because this creates a false gender equality and undermines the whole thing.
It keeps her involved in the family’s affairs, which makes it easier for her to sever the marriage.
Divorcing a man should mean divorcing his children. All, or nothing at all.
But I think the number of married women who will walk away from children at pain of losing them altogether is very small.
LikeLike
Ode —
But anyway Ode I’m asking for a lot on man sometimes just sex dallying thing. Really I’d want there to be an agreement.
I don’t expect that most will go this way. Certainly most beta guys won’t be able to get agreement on that from most women anytime soon. Our culture is so far away from that. So forget that part of what I’m saying ode. That’s my special deal that most guys won’t get and I’m not really politically advocating — except as a possibility if individually mutually agreed.
What I would say though is that this fixation that American women have that one or a fever few isolated just sex short or one time dalliances, which has ended or he agrees to end and not resume, should entitle them to divorce and where there’s fault a full fault payout is nuts. Most of the world agrees its nuts. Certainly most Frenchwomen do. And most Spanish ones etc.
It’s gotten so bad that American women think a wife who discovers that her husband has ever seen even a prostitute, who’s in it for just (limited) money, has committed a without question, utterly marriage destroying offense. It’s absurd.
But not to hyper feminist raised American women.
LikeLike
I’d raise hell over my husband seeing a prostitute. And bringing back god-knows-what to the marital bed?
Ugh.
LikeLike
You know, a number of participants on this blog, (and roissy himself), who have stated that we are headed towards an inevitable, society-wide ‘crash’ based on the status quo of our feminist dominated culture, and that Islam will overtake us and install the an extremely brutal patriarchal, misogynistic culture. It’s not as far fetched a thought as you may think.
Reminds me of a quote from Nancy Levant, the author of The Cultural Devastation of American Women:
Under the current regime of feminist cultural hegemony, trust me ladies, we will be seeing a rise in the number of radicalized, angry men. Men with stories like Zdeno’s that are the norm in every corner of this country.
You can only screw over so many men for so long a period of time before large numbers of them become aware of the situation and something bad happens.
LikeLike
Anyway, people already have “mutual agreements” to a lot of weird stuff; you probably don’t need to advocate for it to the detriment of your other, saner, arguments.
And Roissy says that if you’re a bad enough alpha pimp, your woman won’t raise a peep anyway.
LikeLike
Jerry —
You mean something getting towards half of American women who do?
Half of all American marriages end in divorce, and it’s overwhelmingly American women who want them. Well it’s mostly them that wanted the marriage to. Make you think they make out like bandits in the current system, doesn’t it?
You’re kidding yourself if you think that choosing well, or even being alpha enough, makes you immune to the ravages of hyper feminist America’s divorce maw. Both those things help, but the system, and her friends, and the cultural messages, all work hard the other way.
LikeLike
“Ode to the married man
@dave,
I can speak with lots of experience on that topic. My husband spends excess time at work, typically 7am-midnight because
-he allows his partners to dump on him
-he can not say NO to his patients, partners, nor administrative overlords
-he lacks the spine to look people in the face and say NO
I point out that every time he says YES to others, he is saying NO to his family.”
This is exactly the type of shit that is insane. What did you do Ode with all the money that your husband accumulated working all those hours at any time did you do anything with the money to help make money so that he could work less hours and maybe be able to spend time with the family. Or did you just be a good consumer with the money. What kind of house did you buy. What kind of house do you live in now. What kind of cars do you drive.
LikeLike
@dougjnn,
You views are unrealistic.
LikeLike
pfft. Islam is a backwater religion, and it already shows signs of going down the same path as the West in its more affluent pockets.
Its really angry adherents are mostly poor betas with no prospects; their overlords sensibly direct their angst toward the West while they lounge about with their concubines.
Someone once described this malaise we are currently arguing about as “affluenza.” Either the affluence and its ills will continue (I don’t bet on it) or it won’t.
Either way, Islam ain’t going to have much to do with it.
LikeLike
@guns,
I make lots of money working part-time. I work part-time because someone must be home with the kids. I once went 4 years without spending a dime on clothing for myself, so don’t preach to me about spending wives. He works excessively because he can not stand up to his partners.
LikeLike
Oh believe me. I know.
I wouldn’t say doesn’t raise a peep.
The thing is, if married without a pre-nup, and to some extent even with one, she could change her mind and do the full take to the cleaners route anyway. I mean based on stuff before the mind change.
As for Roissy’s immunity of alphas to any divorce worries, for one thing he’s a bit inconsistent on that but doesn’t exactly say that, though I wish he WOULD focus on that more. He certainly said being alpha and having conscious game helps, and I know he’s right about that. I KNOW he is.
I think what he’s really saying is it’s POSSIBLE to get away with it if you’re alpha and maintain tight game in the marriage, and have a pre nup, and chose the girl you’re gonna marry very, very carefully.
You know where it works best in our extremely hostile to this hyper feminist cultural and legal surround? In full on BDSM, or at least D/s relationships. Which are a kind of subculture. There it’s pretty common.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii owns this thread. Every single comment was absolutely outstanding!
LikeLike
Ay, that BSDM bunch is amusing. Wonder what kind of birthrate they have.
Not sure what Roissy could say about marriage, aside from, generally, “it’s bad.”
Which is good– I do hope the message gets out and the losers exit the marriage market long before my kids are of age, doncha know?
LikeLike
Hey, Doug, why are you so interested in this topic of screwing around on your wife, anyway?
LikeLike
“dougjnn
omw
And, Doug, I do offer a specific legal remedy: make fathers the sole custodians, and let mothers walk with not so much as a dime or a weekend visit.
But no child support from the walking woman either, right omw? Unlike now for men of course.”
OMV, Doug
Hell no. No government enforced child support for men it is not necesary as you see in the cultures where the kids are given to men. Yes let the woman walk if they want to. Would be fine. Much better than what happens now for men. Show the woman how much they are really needed once the kid is popped.
OMV
“And, Doug, I do offer a specific legal remedy: make fathers the sole custodians, and let mothers walk with not so much as a dime or a weekend visit.
The men always squirm at the idea, claim it’s impossible. ”
Who the fuck said it would be impossible for men to raise kids on there own. Woman are the ones who claim they cannot survive without child support so then let them survive without the child then.
LikeLike
I’m not married.
As David says, never again.
Well not quite never but it would take special damage limiting circumstances. Like her being richer than me.
Not into BDSM myself. Or only a few little tinges. Too much work for the top for one thing. But D/s is another matter. Light D/s.
But in many ways that intersects strongly with game, and certainly with Roissy’s version of game.
LikeLike
Maybe it’s the legacy of my Catholicism, but I’ve been against marital infidelity regardless of sex. If you as a man need multiple partners, you shouldn’t get married. If you as a woman crave alpha cock, you shouldn’t get married. If you’re at the point where you feel the need to cheat, you should simply get a divorce, and then go bang other people.
Someone like dougjnn should never engage in a marriage since he has the need for more than one partner.
LikeLike
“He works excessively because he can not stand up to his partners.”
So you come here and rag on the man to total strangers? What a lovely wife you are! I mean, standing tall and telling us that he is a coward. Truly an admirable woman.
LikeLike
Well, I’ve floated the idea before in various venues, and wouldn’t you know– it’s always, always, always, the menfolk who seem uncomfortable with it.
Don’t know why; indeed, anything a woman can do, a man can certainly do better.
The guy who first suggested it to me was a white nationalist; the whole idea struck me with its simplicity and fundamental justice.
No more child-support formulas, no more activist groups, no more dragged-out maudlin divorce proceedings.
LikeLike
Something to ask a woman whining about “commitment-phobic” men:
Why should men commit to women when women have demonstrated that they do not know what the word means?
LikeLike
omw: I’m good with it.
LikeLike
DA
No DA you’re omega shoulds don’t cut it. If you do ever make it up into betahood and get married to a non repulsive woman, or maybe even if to a repulsive one, that alpha craving woman who feels the need to cheat with one or several alphas is gonna just do it, and very possibly get herself knocked up by one, as her hindbrain will urge her to do, and very little of the hyper feminist culture will tell her front brain/superego not to do.
Enjoy raising my kid(s) DA.
LikeLike
Yay!
Dang, gunslinger, Cpt Napalm, and the white nationalist have been the only guys I’ve ever spoken to about it that didn’t recoil at the idea.
Three for fifteen– not so bad… you’d think the men’s groups would be all over ancient concept like brown on rice.
LikeLike
“on March 5, 2009 at 8:33 pm Ode to the married man
@guns,
I make lots of money working part-time. I work part-time because someone must be home with the kids. I once went 4 years without spending a dime on clothing for myself, so don’t preach to me about spending wives. He works excessively because he can not stand up to his partners.”
Now you see the logic of married woman in us even if it is to a guy making a lot of cash. I work part time. Well your intelligent right can’t you work time with a giant stack of money to bring some bacon home to the family. You are fixated on he can’t stand up to his partners. What are you doing to help him.
LikeLike
OMW–
That’s just an excuse OMW. They all require condoms, even the lowest skanks do I’m told. And he’ll not see those anyway.
You’re reflecting just what I’m talking about.
LikeLike
An aversion to prostitution? Yeah, I’m not all that hot on guys who visit whores. Sorry.
It’s my puritanical religious side. Fortunately, my husband shares my aversion to paid sex, or random hookups, or whatever other perversions are considered sophisticated these days.
And if that’s solely an American hang-up, then roll out the Star-Spangled Banner.
If American women are so hateful (and maybe we are) what are you still doing worrying about us?
French women are much more sophisticated about these things, I’m sure.
LikeLike
As usual, Whiskey states the truth succinctly. There is no doubt that a marriage between two people who have good character qualities, can handle each other’s idiosyncrasies, and genuinely like each other, is the best goddamn thing you could ever hope for. I’ve seen people in these marriages, and it’s a sight to behold. I was a teenager, and one of my friends had parents like this. I wanted to ask them to adopt me. Marriage is what it is – a promise and a pledge for two people to work toward becoming one entity. It is only as good as the people who commit to it. Shitty people of low character = shitty marriages.
LikeLike
“omw
Well, I’ve floated the idea before in various venues, and wouldn’t you know– it’s always, always, always, the menfolk who seem uncomfortable with it.
Don’t know why; indeed, anything a woman can do, a man can certainly do better.
The guy who first suggested it to me was a white nationalist; the whole idea struck me with its simplicity and fundamental justice.
No more child-support formulas, no more activist groups, no more dragged-out maudlin divorce proceedings.”
You could take all the woman from us working in iraq right now and make them dissapear and tomorrow the same work would get done.
LikeLike
Yeah, women don’t really belong in war. Shrug. Take it up with the Department of Defense.
LikeLike
Although what work IS getting done in Iraq right now?
LikeLike
“OMV
If American women are so hateful (and maybe we are) what are you still doing worrying about us? ”
Trying to warn people I think is what it is. Not really the woman as much as it is the divorce bs. Woman would not act the same way without the laws giving them unequal power.
LikeLike
The only good marriage is the one to a nice 16 year old girl.
LikeLike
OMW
No OMW, I have not been that self revelatory.
Else, would you care to quote the relevant passage(s)?
LikeLike
Any physical labor done by men. Puts the enlightened feminist thing in perspective
LikeLike
If, say, Bill and Sally marry at age 21, and quickly develop a mutual antipathy, tough luck, right?
Despite their antagonism, children arrive in quick succession. Sally is left at home to deal with the brood, under the close eye of her mother-in-law, everyone in her church, and the town gossip.
Abso-mother-fucking-lutely.
Marriage used to be an “institution” based on a mutual responsibility that was focused on raising your kids.
Then the only solution is to simply avoid getting married than deal with the problems of a spouse who antagnoizes us on a daily basis.
Which came first, the decline of the family or the intervention into the family structure by the government?
Wow, you guys must have some good families, because I would never want to reply on my family for anything as they’d hold it against me for the next 50 years. Hell, my grandmother ended up in her current state because her sister hated her for lucking out with private school from another sibling’s spouse.
in return for full wifely services, which included regular and fairly frequent sex (whether or not she always felt like it)
I fail to see the benefit of having sex with a woman who doesn’t want to have sex.
LikeLike
I suppose that makes sense. It seems to me that this message would get through better minus the male-victimization pose.
Whether it’s authentic or not, you would think these guys would understand that this emasculating woe-is-me pose makes them look “beta” and that most people will find it instinctively repellent.
I just question that high earning men are the ones really taking a bath, at the end of the day; they would understand how to package the issue for maximum mass influence.
They’d go pro-natalist or cheerlead for restoration of the traditional family, not pout “meanie girls are beating up on me in the courtroom.”
That they seem to constantly throw their support to the globalization-feminism-socialist model tells me that they’re not the ones suffering here.
But hey, if that makes me a radical feminist, then call in the dogs and contact NOW on my behalf. heh.
LikeLike
“French women are much more sophisticated about these things, I’m sure.”
Another note have you noticed companies moving there headquarters out of the us to oh I don’t know Dubai. Yea people have taken notice. Especially the guys who work at those headquarters like hmm where would I rather live. Hmm no corporate taxes lots of woman. The problem with multinational companies are they really american anymore apparently not. They can just up and move.
LikeLike
Indeed, the American empire’s reign is setting. What has that got to do with the French ladies?
LikeLike
They’d go pro-natalist or cheerlead for restoration of the traditional family, not pout “meanie girls are beating up on me in the courtroom.”
This is the height of fucking intellectual dishonesty and the cheapest of female tactics…the good old “shaming language” employed by females in trying to hit men where it hurts (there mating value with desirable females), to silence the debate.
Guess what OMW, pointing out the truths of the fucked up system that grinds men’s lives into the dust of desperation is not WHINING.
As I said, I’m happily married to a woman I look forward to going home to every single day. I don’t have a personal stake to “whine.”
But I have seen far too many examples amongst my friends, families, colleagues and acquaintances to ignore the truth and pretend that everything is just fine…nothing to see here…the only guys complaining are beta-whiners.
LikeLike
“OMV
Don’t know why; indeed, anything a woman can do, a man can certainly do better. ”
That only seems to be true in countries that have to make there woman equal by using law instead of them just being equal naturally.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii–
Sing it bro.
LikeLike
What’s shameful or cheap about it? These men are claiming victim-status for themselves, apparently not understanding that, at the end of the day, this is a totally useless tactic for a man to employ.
Always has been, always will be.
A woman can do it, provided she is appealing enough. A man virtually never benefits by it.
Do you contest this point?
High-stakes earners didn’t get to be that way by failing to implicitly understand that whining is, quite literally, for losers.
I maintain that if they were the ones really suffering at the hands of the remarriage machine, they would know how to get it back under control.
LikeLike
Gunslinger, there is not a country in the world where men and women are “equal naturally.”
More complimentary, perhaps, but never equal.
LikeLike
OMW
Yes, I agree with Roissy that American women are the worst deal in the world, on average. But it’s a strong effect so it has effects way away from average.
But America is still a good place to earn beaucoup bucks, esp. for, well, an American.
But, if my work were to send me not just on biz trips elsewhere but to an overseas office elsewhere, there’s alot of elsewheres I go to and pursue the local girls. If preference to American ones.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii owns this thread. Every single comment was absolutely outstanding!
Agreed. Outstanding thread.
LikeLike
So, in other words, no matter what happens under the current status quo, no matter how much injustice occurs, how much female malfeasance is supported, condoned and justified, men should just shut up or they are spineless, whining, beta losers?
Yeah, right.
You can’t even comprehend disjointed logic you’ve spewed here. Your writing on this thread is the classic example of the cognitive dissonance the feminist cultural mindfuck has done to most American women.
LikeLike
Funny, that affluence and obnoxious women go hand in hand, isn’t it, Doug?
Ah, well, if a man chooses riches and bitchiness above poverty and domestic harmony, that is no skin off my nose. But it is a little funny to hear them complain of the choice.
LikeLike
No, you shouldn’t helplessly shut up, but even Roissy has pointed out that the mens-rights movement is pretty much dead on arrival.
It is like feminism in drag.
I really don’t see it becoming a massive societal force, and if that makes you mad, then I cannot help you. How long has this movement been around, and gotten nothing much done?
LikeLike
“Young. Age is a horrid brute, to women. Not so much so for men.”
Women age about twice as fast as men. While a woman’s value in the market drops precipitously after 35, a man is fully in the game until 50, as long as he just does not go bald or get fat.
And even after 50, while most men cannot get a YOUNG (22-30) woman, they can always get a YOUNGER woman than them. A 60 year old man of decent qualifications/game can restrict himself to women under 45 and still not have much trouble.
For each year a man ages, women age 2 years.
LikeLike
For all the talk about evolutionary theory on this blog, I haven’t seen much on the natural, evolutionary desire of both men and women to have children/the desire to propagate ones genes. Now one would say that having adopted children in addition to biological children is non-evolutionary, but it’s still more evolutionary than the Roissy strategy of never having children.
Roissy may have a fantastic, emotionally satisfying life, but from a cold, unemotional evolutionary standpoint, his will have been as successful as o m e g a who dies a virgin.
LikeLike
I think an interesting topic to explore would be :
Who had it worse, blacks under Jim Crow, or men in America in 2009?
Obviously, blacks had it worse under slavery, but than ended in 1865. Jim Crow was a soft bigotry that lasted a century more, and thus is the accurate thing to compare current misandry to.
1) Blacks got lynched for having relations with white women. Well, men today can be jailed merely by false accusation from a woman.
2) Blacks were denied jobs. Well, men today can be denied 80% of their income, even if they are working very long hours, due to alimony and child support. Men are excluded from certain well-paying professions with high job security, like teaching. And yes, teaching IS a well-paying profession relative to hours worked, particularly when job security, predictability, and benefits are taken into account.
3) Blacks could not say derogatory things about whites in a way whites could about blacks. Well, men cannot say about women what women say about men to applause from the studio audience.
I could think of quite a few more comparisons.
Some blacks had it great under the Jim Crow era, but this was a small minority. Today, the top alphas have it great too, in much the same way.
LikeLike
There is only ONE thing a “men’s movement” can do…and it’s what roissy does, it’s what I’ve done on this thread, and it’s what most other men’s movement activists do:
Raise Awareness in people on just how fucked up the system is. To use the Matrix allegory: Take the Red Pill. Give it to as many people as you can find that would be willing to take it.
Show people the truth about how the feminist movement has declared war on the nuclear family and ignited this FUBAR gender war that has taken a very real toll on millions upon millions of lives.
Most importantly, advise the youth on how they can avoid the life destroying traps that the current culture have laid out for so many ignorant people to fall into
And in the current situation, the biggest trap young men can avoid is to DON’T GET MARRIED.
A very real Marriage Strike is certainly occurring. The rate of marriage is in a very real decline. The noise we hear in the mainstream media is increasing: Men are afraid of commitment – Men are afraid of marriage.
No, men are not afraid of marriage. We fear divorce.
THAT’S your men’s movement having an effect right there.
LikeLike
Yes, I think that IF our elite males had any interest at all in restoring the sane, traditional family structure, with its normal relation between the sexes, they’d do it by glorifying the large family.
Does it seem odd to nobody else here that they absolutely do not? Big families are an oddity at best, an underclass marker at worst.
When is the last time we had, say, a president with more than two children?
LikeLike
With the exception, sparks, of him beating the laws of probability. If his numbers are high enough, he’s going to accidentally reproduce, if he likes it or not. The question then is: is this baby going to be aborted?
Clearly this is the case for anti-abortion: NO ROISSY GENES! OH, THE HORROR!!!! (it may be argued, this is clearly the case for pro-choice but YOU PEOPLE JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND ROISSY LIKE I DO, I WILL SAAVE HIM).
LikeLike
” haven’t seen much on the natural, evolutionary desire of both men and women to have children/the desire to propagate ones genes.”
This is true, and I keep pointing out how this is conspicuously absent from Roissy’s writings.
This, after all, is the main reason men still risk getting married.
Roissy talks about his niece and nephew, and how they satisfy his need. I call BS, because not only do we not know for sure if he even has a niece or nephew, but that really isn’t the same thing as having your own. I am sure Roissy wishes he had a son to teach Game to.
That being said, men have to make a hard decision whether marrying is worth the risk or not. The basic urge to have children is in direct conflict with a man’s own survival.
That is why Islam will sweep over the urban centers of the West. Any society that makes reproduction just too hard and risky will be overrun by the high-brith society. Rural, conservative America still has it right.
LikeLike
It’s not a hypothetical issue – all you have to do is look to Europe and Asia to see cultures that allow for the married man to keep mistresses.
Seems to work just fine.
LikeLike
It’s not a hypothetical issue – all you have to do is look to Europe and Asia to see cultures that allow for the married man to keep mistresses.
If you need a mistress, you shouldn’t get married.
LikeLike
Well, I think it’s very possible that the marriage rate is declining, and good riddance to some of these people.
I’m just not sure the mens-movement has much to do with it.
Men have *never* wanted to get married when they can have free and easy no-babies-attached sex without it, and women seem inclined to give it to them very easily.
A few generations of seeing birth control as a fundamental right will have that effect, given enough time.
The only ones who have sane familial relations in the US right now are the very religious, large-family sorts.
Maybe they will inherit the earth. But they don’t go to mens-rights meetings. 😉
LikeLike
European and Asian alphas may be having mistresses, but their birth rates are abysmal. Connection?
LikeLike
OMW —
Middle middle class men are the one’s who are made most impoverished / desperate by the burdens of high percentage child support. There simply isn’t enough money to go around. If he wife earns or could earn a similar amount and still raise the kids (which will have a lot to do with how old they are), which isn’t uncommon for men in this income category, it’s very unfair for her to get as high a percentage of his income as she does under current law. It’s just harder to claim that what he’s paying her is far above the additional costs of having the kids. The fact is they’ll both have to be poorer post divorce.
Of course if she remarries and esp. to a considerably higher earning man, it’s just obscene. But it’s the law.
High earning upper middle or upper upper middle class men on the other hand are clearly and without question mostly paying alimony in their formula child support payments. Of course he won’t be nearly as impoverished or indeed impoverished at all by the support payments. but he will take a huge hit. Further, it’s here that the wife has much less economic disincentive to get a divorce. She’ll be able to live off her high earning ex, while fucking around like a true slut, as she might have done during the marriage. This is where the power shift of marriage as opposed to not marriage is greatest, and least justified.
Rich men who knew they were or were likely to be rich before they married are much more likely to get a pre-nup in our current culture. It’s in their cultural air, unlike among upper middle class men’s, although that’s changing. So no, they aren’t hurt nearly as much. Though whether or not child support percentages get capped in the state in question, or can be by pre-nup, is a very biggy. Of course they should be able to be. Actually there shouldn’t be a need — they should automatically be capped and not very high either, by law.
If a woman wants to live off her husband, she should live with him. And provide full wifely services to him, and at a level commensurate with what he’s bringing, of course.
BTW, high earning or rich women marrying lower earning or less wealthy men virtually all insist on pre-nups these days. Ask any high end Hollywood divorce lawyer. Or Manhattan one. One of the best sources of starting model for a prenup is what divorce lawyers use as a starting form with wary women. Needs a whole different child support section of course.
LikeLike
I like this blog, but this post is BS. Marry a woman a little younger than you, (but not too much–6-7 years about right). have kids. You’ll love the kids, and she’ll always feel young to you. Do you want to be cruising at age 55? No, home with your (relatively) young wife, reading watching TV, talking (often about your children’s interesting lives) tending to one another’s joy and comfort.
LikeLike
“When is the last time we had, say, a president with more than two children?”
What are you talking about? A lot of them have.
Reagan : 5 kids
GHWB : 5 kids
Candidates who ran for President/VP.
McCain : 7 kids across 2 wives
Romney : 5 kids
Palin : 5 kids
Gore : 4 kids
John Edwards : 4 kids
Of course, none of these are of the current generation, born after 1950, except Palin.
LikeLike
“Of course, none of these are of the current generation, born after 1950, except Palin.”
Correction : John Edwards is also relatively young.
LikeLike
OMW —
European and Asian alphas may be having mistresses, but their birth rates are abysmal. Connection?
No.
And the birth rates in most of Asia aren’t abysmal, but rather prolific and are only abysmal in China by force of enforced law — the one child per couple for life law. With exceptions. For the connected and rich, naturally.
The birth rates in France, with some of the highest mistress rates for alpha men, are among the highest in Europe and competitive with the US. Feminist type white women have low birth rates in the US, way below replacement level. It’s the religious and recent immigrants and often second generation (and sometimes more, e.g. Latinos) who have high birth rates. They may not condone male affairs but they far less often divorce because of them, if the husband is otherwise loving and a good provider. No it’s the super bitch white feminist American women that are the problem, both in birth rates, and in divorce rates.
They are low in Japan. Japan’s a weird place. Really. A lot of Japanese appear to be pretty asexual. Or only have these bondage/rape fantasies often with school girls. It’s almost like a lot of the men are impotent. Maybe they sorta are. Don’t know. I do know it’s strange.
LikeLike
OMW –
No.
And the birth rates in most of Asia aren’t abysmal, but rather prolific and are only abysmal in China by force of enforced law — the one child per couple for life law. With exceptions. For the connected and rich, naturally.
The birth rates in France, with some of the highest mistress rates for alpha men, are among the highest in Europe and competitive with the US. Feminist type white women have low birth rates in the US, way below replacement level. It’s the religious and recent immigrants and often second generation (and sometimes more, e.g. Latinos) who have high birth rates. They may not condone male affairs but they far less often divorce because of them, if the husband is otherwise loving and a good provider. No it’s the super bitch white feminist American women that are the problem, both in birth rates, and in divorce rates.
They are low in Japan. Japan’s a weird place. Really. A lot of Japanese appear to be pretty asexual. Or only have these bondage/rape fantasies often with school girls. It’s almost like a lot of the men are impotent. Maybe they sorta are. Don’t know. I do know it’s strange.
LikeLike
How many hours do you think the black slaves worked a year picking cotton?
Do you pick cotton all year long?
LikeLike
You do better when you make more specific arguments, Doug. Thanks.
Yes, divorce is hardest on those who are less wealthy, which is why it’s never been something readily available to your average Joe and Jane and why I think it should be strongly discouraged among that class.
“Post divorce, they will both be poorer.” I wish more people really understood that!
It’s hard to figure in the costs of actually raising the little buggars, though– sometimes I think men forget how labor-intensive they are, and how much of a chunk they can take out of anyone’s earning capacity.
This seems to be a worse tendency among those couples where Dad used to be the breadwinner and Mom used to stay at home; Dad often sort of assumes that childcare is free, or nearly so, because he’s never gotten a bill for it before.
But childcare in my neighborhood runs around 600 bucks per kid, per month, for just 40 hours a week.
So, for my brood, that’s nearly 2 grand in childcare per month right there just so I could go back to work and “support myself.”
Plus food, plus clothing, plus diapers, plus doctor visits, plus “their” share of the housing that they occupy… God, my husband only makes 4500 bucks a month, you know?
We can’t afford a divorce!
lol.
This is why, if we ever start craving a separation, I plan to leave our kids with him while I get a job and an apartment.
Gives me a chance to get lonely for the family, and gives him a chance to decide if I’m really dead weight. I’ve never seen a couple do it this way, and then decide to divorce.
Letting dad get a bachelor pad just enables all the parties in their own comfortable selfishness, though.
LikeLike
Some people feel the need for a stable relationship, a significant other you can rely on. A wife. And some wives will tolerate infidelities, and don’t consider them as damaging to the stability of marriage.
That’s just the fact. Infidelity doesn’t bother all people. Some women tolerate it.
I’m going to Jakarta to go find new girls for a few months, myself, and my live in will wait here. She doesn’t much like it that I’m going, an will miss me, but its no cause to end the relationship.
Some people find it imposssible to maintain a stable reltionship without infidelity, and for them, infidelity allows for the marriage to be stable.
Marriage and infidelity can go hand in hand. I think the notion of being faithful is a personal decision, and one that has no right or wrong answer.
LikeLike
Roissy is an expert on marriage like tokyojesusfist is an expert on picking up women.
What relevance do comparisons of movie-star gods like Brad Pitt and George Clooney have to regular guys? Even a typical alpha is not going to have young women jumping on his viagra-needing old-man dick at GC’s age. The typical guy who’s pulling hot females at 25 will be pathetic as a 50 year old bachelor (and bear in mind that aging doesn’t stop at 50).
You might as well tell people to drop out of college and join the NBA so they can score like Wilt Chamberlain.
The only good thing about the mind-set revealed by this post is that it leads to low fecundity, so people with this attitude do us all a favor by performing auto-negative-eugenics.
The real lesson is – don’t marry (or cohabitate with, or whatever) a fucking psycho beast like Angelina Jolie. The signs were obvious – a bad relationship with her father, weird incest gestures with her brother, self-mutilation, a desire to abduct, uh, adopt a menagerie of third-world babies… RUN RUN RUN!
LikeLike
omw
You live in your own world don’t you?
Try 3 presidents ago. George HW Bush, #41. Six children, five of whom survived to adulthood.
LikeLike
France’s rate is nothing to brag about (and neither is ours)– and they’ve been paying women to have babies for quite awhile, no?
It’s also difficult to tease out whether their birthrate is bolstered by their Muslim immigrants on account of France’s notorious PC climate, as I understand. Maybe this doesn’t matter, though.
Japan IS a weird place… extremely macho and very much not, all at the same time.
LikeLike
Ah, well, that’s not so bad. And yes, I do live in my own world. GWB didn’t exactly follow in his daddy’s footsteps, though.
LikeLike
doug, I think focusing on money, while important, is not the total picture. OMW seems to be flippant about this…like who cares about the mega-rich getting divorced.
Think a man is any less devastated if he still has mega millions and hot young chics to bang…but hisn ex wife takes the kids across the country, never lets him see them, and poisons them against him so even if he does make an effort to visit and remain a part of their lives, they want nothing to do with him?
No amount of money could make up for going through that mindfuck.
I’d rather be dirt poor and able to be involved with my children who are not poisoned towards me than a mega-millionaire with kids who can’t stand to be around me because the ex filled them full of her resentment and vindictiveness.
LikeLike
Yes, I think that IF our elite males had any interest at all in restoring the sane, traditional family structure, with its normal relation between the sexes, they’d do it by glorifying the large family.
Are you kidding? Elite males lose under the traditional system of monogamy and benefit from the system we have now (effectively polygamy). They are the ones getting lots of sex from lots of women, while other men are shut out, and they are the ones having lots of kids with lots of different wives, while other men have none.
How can you read this blog for any length of time and not understand that the alpha male gets more women at the expense of legions of betas?
LikeLike
Some people feel the need for a stable relationship, a significant other you can rely on. A wife. And some wives will tolerate infidelities, and don’t consider them as damaging to the stability of marriage.
Fuck that. If you cannot stay monogamous, you shouldn’t be in a marriage. Stop mucking up marriage to suit your little perversions. If you and your significant other agree to “cheat”, that’s not my problem, but I don’t want your relationship to qualify for what constitutes a marriage.
Angelina Jolie
She’s beautiful if you like women who look “sexual”. Jennifer Aniston is beautiful if you like normal looking women.
LikeLike
OMW —
Alright, in light of your last post and tone, I retract my immediately prior snarkiness.
LikeLike
Oh, no, you don’t have your pulse on that movement. It is a groundswell. It grows daily.
Men are truly pissed off, and we are speaking up about it. It’s hardly even a movement anymore, just a state of being that is agreed on.
Men are furious with feminism and the demasculization of society.
LikeLike
They are the ones getting lots of sex from lots of women, while other men are shut out, and they are the ones having lots of kids with lots of different wives, while other men have none.
The problem is that women are only attracted to alpha males, so by looting all of the women, beta males have been spared from dealing with women who have no real attraction or interest in them.
LikeLike
Well, that’s what I’m saying lehuster; the mens-rights movement has no legs, and will never have any, because it’s comprised of “beta” guys, who nobody will ever take seriously.
Their complaints come across as whines and their grievances will always read as petty nonsense.
And your classic “alphas” are not interested in the mens-rights thing because they’re making out like bandits under the “feminist” system, by and large.
It’s just a losing proposition all the way around, unless you can sell alphas on it– and they wouldn’t package the concept the way that Doug and Dave are packaging it, I don’t believe.
LikeLike
I’m just saying, I’ve sat at tables with bitterly divorced co-workers, and NOTHING makes most people’s eyes glaze over like hearing Sam’s blow-by-blow account of how The Bitch is squeezing him for an extra 50 bucks because “she says the kids need new coats and didn’t-they-have-perfectly-decent-coats-LAST-month-blah-blah-blah….”
Seriously, nobody cares, unless they are in the same pitiful boat. It’s just not something normal people are into.
It is even worse than listening to a little old lady tell you about her continence problems. Y’all are probably suffering… but so’s that old lady who keeps peeing on herself!
LikeLike
David Alexander–
Says who? David Alexander?
I don’t respect your should.
LikeLike
OMW —
Actually quite a few of them have men’s rights meetings of their own. Some of the most successful ones. Surely you’ve heard of that. Promise Keepers for example?
Yeah it’s sold in the first instance as men’s responsibility. But really it doesn’t much up what the law does on that anyway. What it does up, way up, is married women’s responsibility in turn.
Which is really what Dave from Hawaii and I are talking about.
Far reciprocal strong obligations in marriage, not one way ones, where marriage is an option for women, but indentured servitude for men, if she choose to bail on her wifely support and services, but still collect his support.
LikeLike
You are neglecting to notice that 6 or 7 years age difference is fine at first, but becomes less meaningful as you age.
Half your age, plus 7 years, is the rule mentioned most often.
And as men age, they often tend to have their paternal instincts grow, and so we can handle younger girlfriends better. We don’t need a peer in a mate, quite as much. My 26 year old girlfriend is not in the least too young for me. Nor was the 21 or 19 year old that I dated not so long ago. The older the man gets, the more his need for youth – not the less. We feed of youth and beauty like vampires feed off of blood. It makes us vital.
And the women benefit. Many young women dig older guys, and find twenty something men to be just boys.
No, when I’m 50 I will not be dating a 43 year old. And when I’m 60 you can be sure I won’t be with a 53 year old. I’ll still be with a tweenager at 60 – guaranteed.
LikeLike
xsplat —
Well said.
And glad to have your personal example on this thread.
Bro.
LikeLike
That’s because you’re a women who is invested in having the current status quo maintained because even though you agree divorce is destructive to society, you’d still like to have the option available to yourself ‘just in case.’
So you have no sympathy for the plight of men screwed in divorce.
Rest assured, plenty of men do not share your sentiments.
LikeLike
xsplat –
I agree, and that includes many alphas. Yeah alphas do way better. They make out like bandits while non cohabitating and especially while unmarried. But when they do get more committed the current system negatively effects them too.
Not as often, but it’s still a BIG threat. Well, not often at all if they’re a fairly impecunious, devil may care kind of alpha. If they’re a high earning or rich alpha, you know the kind that actually contribute a lot to society, then they too have huge vulnerabilities. Way less than a beta earning similar, but bad nonetheless.
LikeLike
You’ve obviously never been to SE Asia. You can pull hot chicks over here even if you are 60 and fat.
I’m short and balding, and even so it’s expected of me to have a hot girl. Cause I’m white. Teenagers get wet looking at me, even though I’m ugly. Cause I’m white.
No matter how old a man gets, he can find a hottie, as long as he’s willing to search for them in little out of the way villages.
LikeLike
Doug, I think you really do underestimate the cost of raising kids. I know a lot of divorced people– and you simply can’t get rich divorcing a working-class schlub and absconding with the child support.
You can’t get rich staying with him, either, of course, but that’s a whole ‘nother story.
The Promise Keepers are kind of dated. Soft pop Christianity.
I think where it’s at now is people like Mike and Debi Pearl– real fundamentalists.
M. Pearl is a hardass when it comes to male responsibility– no premarital sex, no porn, EVER, no sending your wife out to work, no “abortificient” forms of birth control, no public schooling for your kids, no TV, etc.
D. Pearl tells women to submit in all areas to their husbands. ALL. If he rapes your kids, even, turn him in to the authorities, but be ready for him to return to the marital bed when he gets out. Yipes! But she says this to make a point: if you have to submit in THAT, then you definitely cannot be sassing him about the kitchen trash. Take it out yourself, lazy girl!
It’s not a bad model, but I really don’t think most of our mens-rights people are ready for that, either.
They probably like what these people have to say to women, but aren’t ready to make the corresponding set of sacrifices.
Of course, it all requires a faith that God will reward you, even if your earthly spouse does not appreciate your efforts.
Tough to get people to tow the patriarchal line without religion, IMO.
LikeLike
No, Doug, I mean single guys, married guys, older divorced ones.
Nobody wants to hear about the mundane nickel-and-dime business of a middle-class divorce– it’s commonplace and miserable, but utterly dull.
You probably think you are impressing some sort of wisdom on the younger set, but what they really think is, “I can do better than this washed-up fogey.”
Because, rightly or not, that is ALWAYS what the young ones think when hearing their elder’s droning tales of woe.
Haven’t you ever been young and cocky? Why do fools fall in love?
LikeLike
“omw
Doug, I think you really do underestimate the cost of raising kids. I know a lot of divorced people– and you simply can’t get rich divorcing a working-class schlub and absconding with the child support.
You can’t get rich staying with him, either, of course, but that’s a whole ‘nother story.”
If woman brought something to the table in us with their work and would help save money. Any woman could get with any guy they could both work and be rich if that was there goal and both worked toward it.
LikeLike
No, but you can live a comfortable existence in the house and car you won in the divorce settlement, and she doesn’t have to work because the alimony and child support give her more than enough to get by on.
Drop the kids off at school, go shopping with the girls, or screw your bad boy – young lover or new exciting thug boyfriend, while the “middle class schlub” pays for her to enjoy the “freedom.”
LikeLike
OMW —
It may be difficult but it has been done, and the answer is no. Not worth spitting about. The data lag. The data that’s been reported don’t get bumped up by Muslims much. Yet. That will surely change. Soon.
But the point is the native white French rate is about at replacement levels.
Which I think is about right. You I guess want much higher. I’m not a big greenie but even I know the earth can’t sustain more than we’ve already got on schedule.
The only alternative to voluntary near replacement rates will be tears. Lots of tears. Mostly in the third world. Where most of the outsized increases have come, without economic justification. Based on Western welfare to them, essentially.
That will not end well. But it will end.
LikeLike
Eh, not really; this may be true for your upper-middle class types, but I don’t know any divorced women with kids who don’t also have a full-time job and a shitty little broken-down car.
Sorry.
Sometimes I get a little flack from them for being a stay-at-home mom, “Wish I could do that, but it’s different for single moms.”
Boo-fricken-hoo, eh?
Anyway, don’t you know that once a woman passes a certain age, her value is pretty much zero on the meat market? Having kids sure knocks the wind out of a woman’s sails, too.
Wonder how such astonishingly hideous beasts are supposed to be landing such bad-boy alpha males.
LikeLike
“Plus food, plus clothing, plus diapers, plus doctor visits, plus “their” share of the housing that they occupy… God, my husband only makes 4500 bucks a month, you know?
We can’t afford a divorce! ”
This is were you are an idiot. He only makes 4500 a month why is it necesary for your family to spend all your husband makes when he makes 4500 a month. Why can’t you help the family live on 2500 and save 24000 a year do you know what you can do with 25k saved a year get rich. Exactly what the fuck I am talking about. You put your husband down for only making 4500 per month but then are happy to let him slave away forever to keep you in a lifestyle that is not needed.
LikeLike
Bad boys don’t have to be “alpha’s.” They just display traits of dominance that are a part of their “bad boyness” that get a woman excited.
And yes, there is I’m sure plenty of lower class war pigs that are divorced and working…perhaps had they not let themselves go and made their marriages a priority, they would not find themselves in the position of envying the stay at home mom, no?
LikeLike
Well, doug, our traditional views of marriage/sex are pretty much underlined by a longstanding tradition of large families.
The changes you decry are a direct result of a drastically decreased birthrate throughout the Western world.
Women traditionally got our power through marriage with many children.
Once women, as a whole, stopped getting much power that way, they turned to various forms of feminism, which of course brought the rates down even further.
As far as I can tell, there is the ultra-traditional large-family model, or there is the soft-socialist model, and we can choose one or the other.
If you like the latter model better, then that’s okay with me.
LikeLike
Gunslinger, I’m sorry, but your peculiar spelling and syntax make it hard for me to discern your actual meaning. But I’m not putting my husband down.
LikeLike
Like I said woman talking shit about problems doing nothing about it. Bringing nothing to the table to help their husbands who they are supposed to love, and be loyal to.
LikeLike
Damn – not sure why I’m stuck in moderation now.
As for the idea that it’s social security to marry, in order to not be alone when old, it’s an empty argument. No matter how old a man gets, he can find a hottie, as long as he’s willing to search for them in little out of the way villages.
LikeLike
OMW
Oh yeah girlfriend, I have been and still am. Cocky at least. But, well yeah, somewhat tempered cocky. I’ve got a college annecdote or two up in an earlier thread, for example.
But as to the balance, you sure do seem fixated on knocking me down a peg or three. Why’s that sweets?
LikeLike
OMW —
Completely agree with you girlfriend.
LikeLike
I guess I just get irritated with the notion that women ought to get back into our places and let the men be in charge, without any sort of acknowledgement that men actually have to change, too, to effect the sort of society y’all claim to want.
My faith tradition demands submission of wives in marriage, and this concept does not bother me, having seen in lived out successfully and beautifully in the marriages of my elders.
It does not demean the women. It does not allow unfettered male privilege.
I wish all men and women could see this life in action; it’s what most of them really WANT. They want meaning, connection, family, love.
But the men who get those results are disciplined and responsible themselves. Their wives submit, but the husbands love them “as Christ loves the Church.” The greater call is upon the men!
It is beautiful and mystical, marriage done right.
I hate seeing it stupidly smeared by people who really know very little about it.
LikeLike
omw —
I’m anti-PC and have always been a skeptic and thought outside the box. I challenge myself to do that all the freakin time. It’s good for money and a touch challenging re: groups.
Anyway, that’s just backwards. Literally backwards. Almost no-one of any wattage agrees with that.
As for choosing between two extremes, I don’t do that kind of choosing. I find or create a more congenial synthesis. I don’t believe in “if some is good, more must be better”. I believe in a classical Greek sense of balance. Yeah of course that says nothing about where the balance is and that the subject of endless debate. But it’s in contrast to picking one or another extreme possibility, and then going further with it, because if some is good, more is better. Facism versus communism, and then a purer form of either? No thank you.
Individualism versus collectivism and then a more extreme form of your choice on and on? No thanks.
LikeLike
Sure, the man as leader of the household is a very viable relationship model – but I don’t agree that being responsible=being monogamous. Some folks are into that, but as with all things sexual and romantic, there are no rules, only strategies.
LikeLike
Dougjnn
“The only alternative to voluntary near replacement rates will be tears. Lots of tears. Mostly in the third world. Where most of the outsized increases have come, without economic justification. Based on Western welfare to them, essentially.
That will not end well. But it will end.”
Naa man if you can get 150 tons of tomatos off of an acre of land where are the tears for lack of food. The “third world” is becoming the “first world” all that lack of food shit was shit to scare white people into not having kids, along with divorce laws, along with aids, along with date rape,cost of kids type stuff.
LikeLike
Really? What is controversial about it? The introduction of reliable birth control shakes up the entire ballgame, literally everywhere it is introduced.
A woman not occupied with the details of managing eight kids has time to work outside her home, to form associations with people far outside her domestic sphere.
Her earnings (and the fact that they aren’t immediately being fed to the family’s huge brood) permit her a different kind of leverage within the marriage.
She has more time for political activism, less dependence on husband, extended family and church– those were all important avenues for keeping a woman’s “amoral” sexuality in check.
Feminism as we know it is literally impossible without birth control and the small families it engenders.
LikeLike
omw —
I agree that there will be no “Men’s movement.”
However you will not like what will come:
1. Indifference and non-investment in women. Men can and will compensate for the lack of love and sex in their lives with things as diverse as railfanning, video games, pr0n (which ominously is the only thing that’s really made money online besides E-Bay and Amazon and Itunes), and much more.
2. Casual violence against women being accepted. We are already normalizing that with Chris Brown and other rappers. Guess what? That won’t stay in racial and class lines either.
3. No defense of women, in the public square during physical assault, and in private in the voting booth when considering public issues.
If you dislike Bromance slacker comedies and that type of guy, well get ready for more of it, in real life too.
LikeLike
I am not worried too much about whatever will come. The world has been expected to end any-day-now ever since I was a little girl. 😉
Most of the stuff you outline is already a fact of life if you aren’t careful to avoid it, but it is not self-sustaining.
The future, long term, doesn’t belong to the David Alexanders of the world or the Roissys of the world– neither of them is equipped to be the fathers of the next generation.
That’s the bottom line, right?
LikeLike
Gunslingergregi–
Fine. Then let’s just cut off Western aid to Africa and see what happens. It’s not like we don’t have uses for the money at home these days.
LikeLike
Whiskey–
That’s my first encounter with Bromance Whiskey. The invaluable Urban Dictionary bailed me out.
Do you know where you first picked that up?
LikeLike
Whiskey —
I’m not sure one way or another. I do think something’s building. There won’t be one among the boomer or even X generation, that’s for sure. Some X’s may contribute.
I also think the reasons OMW’s given as to why not are utter rubbish.
There is an uphill built in thing where men don’t feel inclined to gang up as a large group against women. They never had to before. Before what? The vote for women? That’s my most likely candidate.
Of course you can then go back and ask, but why the vote for women? That gets to the expanding francise generally in democratic America and Britain, widespread education including for women, and a general ethic of increasing equality and welfare / semi or full on socialism.
All made possible by industrialization and the consequent vast increase of socially spreadable wealth, and also the need for more technically advanced forms of industrialization for more and more knowledge workers.
LikeLike
Whose life would you rather have — Brad Pitt’s, or Roissy’s?
LikeLike
Player Guys —
Get yourself a valve vasectomy. Easily reversible, by coded close in radio signal.
They’re in clinical trials now. Get in on one. Save yourself from an oops. Have a kid when and if you want one, not when someone ambushes you.
The higher earning kind of alpha you are, the more you need one. But every player could use one.
LikeLike
OMW the world as you know it will end in the next 50 years but more like the next 30. Whoever perfect remote control warfare first and willing to use it to full capability will be the last ones standing. Or maybe we will have utopia but I think more unlikely.
LikeLike
you are so out of control. seems like you’re getting more popular by the minute
there are a lot of people out there that want to censor you… It’s proof of how deep these themes run in our society.
You’re one of the voices inside my head, always coming from an unadulterated perspective rooted in self aware experience…. like a psychedelic trip; an enlightened state of mind
the rats beneath are oh so vicious
LikeLike
They would prob live like they always have. Of course Africans can live on there own without the help of the US. Just because you would not want to live how they live as seen on tv doesn’t mean they couldn’t survive. It also doesn’t mean it is really that bad in Africa. How many stories have you heard years ago about 65 percent aids in zimbabwe in the economist or some such. These stories cannot be true or there would no longer be people in Africa. Western Aid comes at the price of westerners trying to instill their western values. Look at Kosovo, Bosnia they used to be men. Now they live under the same divorce laws as the US and they are shellshocked. So they get slaughtered physically somewhat but then they get slaughtered after that by their own woman with western help. Ain’t western aid grand. Western aid ain’t free.
LikeLike
I’m expecting resource wars to break out, due to water and food shortages.
Unless we come up with desalination that is cheap enough to be used for crop irrigation.
I see China invading Indonesia in about 20 years.
LikeLike
Yea I see China,Japan,Korea conquering world if they perfect remote control technology. Don’t you think China would rather take over Russia first (siberia) for the natural resources. China could erase world population then say ok you have all this pent up feeling of lack from only being able to have this many kids. Ok now you can have as many as you want plus you can now go out and colonize the new (now empty) world. The new worldwide lousiana purchase.
LikeLike
Then again, maybe bird flu will wipe out enough of us that we won’t need to war over resources. Newscientist . com recently ran an article entitled “how to survive the coming century”.
The argument that the end of the world never comes is not an argument. It’s like falling off a building, and saying, so far so good. Sure, so far, so good. Doesn’t mean nuthing about the future.
The end of the world does come, and has happened many times in history. Plague and famine and war will happen again. And technology is getting truly terrifying now – especially now that brains are now being modelled with computers. Artificial intelligence will likely be a very, very bad thing. Frank Herbert was correct on that one.
As for my economic and survival strategy, I live in a food producing area, and have started buying cows. Might get some goats next. I’m looking into producing cheese. I’m thinking that farming is the safest investment, at this point.
LikeLike
Oh, and rabbits. I only have one just now, but will try to breed her into many. And eat them up. Fish farming might be fun. And I still plan to make virgin coconut oil one of these days. Anyway, food production in turbulent times seems prudent.
LikeLike
Yea why I think utopia definetly possible. Just we need to understand the bad side of technology could be extremely bad. But f it until then I will be working towards helping them keep utopia as far as i see it for my adopted part of the world.
LikeLike
I guess I just get irritated with the notion that women ought to get back into our places and let the men be in charge, without any sort of acknowledgement that men actually have to change, too, to effect the sort of society y’all claim to want.
Like, men demand so much, like, they need to give up more.
Uh… what do most American men demand from their wives?
Just curious.
I’m actually having a little trouble thinking of something.
Seriously, what do most American men demand… and GET… from thier wives?
LikeLike
As my above point indicates, our culture has passed the point of parody.
LikeLike
omw (addressing whiskey’s points):
I am not worried too much about whatever will come. The world has been expected to end any-day-now ever since I was a little girl.
whiskey never framed the issues as catastrophic ‘end of the world’ scenarios. i see no reason why you should have either unless you were deliberately trying to obfuscate, as you’ve been doing all along on this thread with dave and doug.
please re- consider addressing his points on whether we’ll see progressively escalating levels of men disengaging from society and, specifically, from matriarchal institutions, like marriage due to the repercussions of feminism.
LikeLike
dougjnn:
“Player Guys –
Get yourself a valve vasectomy. Easily reversible, by coded close in radio signal.
They’re in clinical trials now. Get in on one. Save yourself from an oops. Have a kid when and if you want one, not when someone ambushes you.
The higher earning kind of alpha you are, the more you need one. But every player could use one.”
Bullshit. The primary mark of the alpha male is spreading his seed, and a true alpha will do so regardless of the financial consequences. If you don’t procreate, you have failed at life, period. On the other side, the most alpha man we know of in human history was Genghis Khan with his some 16 million current descendants. At the end of the day, this is really all that matters; you can be as badass as you want, but if you aren’t passing that along to the next generation, you’re worthless. The man who dies penniless with kids is infinitely superior to the man who dies wealthy but childless.
LikeLike
xsplat:
“The argument that the end of the world never comes is not an argument. It’s like falling off a building, and saying, so far so good. Sure, so far, so good. Doesn’t mean nuthing about the future.”
Best concept you have presented here in my opinion. Forgive me when I quote you without citation this weekend. Will keep it in mind when I peep ‘Watchmen’ too.
LikeLike
Ugh, time is cruel.
Pamela Anderson : Age 25-27 :
Pamela Anderson : Age ~41 :
LikeLike
Why?
What’s so fantastic about passing on one’s genes. I honestly don’t understand the fascination.
Having lived well before death is the sign of having succeeded at life. Leaving behind kids doesn’t make you live forever – nothing is forever. No matter what you do, you can’t stop impermanence. Entropy will get us all, in the end.
Kids don’t make a life meaningful. If you they make you FEEL meaningful, that’s cool. But they don’t make me FEEL meaningful. What gives meaning to me is feeling that I’m giving and receiving love, and enjoying myself, and that I can share some of that from time to time.
LikeLike
“The primary mark of the alpha male is spreading his seed, and a true alpha will do so regardless of the financial consequences. ”
Bull. The primary mark of an alpha male is how much POWER he has over women.
Some inner-city sleazebag might have 6 kids. Bill Clinton had 1 kid. Who is more alpha?
LikeLike
sorry if this was mentioned earlier, there were a lot of comments to this blog. i thought this comment of roissy’s was kind of interesting:
“Married men *may* live longer than single men (though these claims are in dispute), but their psyches, their souls, and their masculine essence die long before their bodies do.”
you know why the above is true, and why it should no longer be in dispute? it’s because their balls are being shrunken down and snipped off and packed away by their bitching wives. they’re gradually being turned into double-x’s, and, as we all know, women have a much longer lifespan then men do.
LikeLike
“The man who dies penniless with kids is infinitely superior to the man who dies wealthy but childless.”
That is stupid. A few years ago, I was a sperm donor to a cryobank. I probably have 10 kids (all about the same age, mind you), some of whom may choose to contact me after they turn 18. If I was even more ambitious, I could have donated another series to a second bank on the other side of town, thus having as many as 20 kids.
But I have no role in their life today. I don’t even know what race their mothers are.
I do hope some of them contact me in the distant future, so that I can know them. I will encourage my male offspring to donate themselves if they qualify, so that I can have legions of grandchildren, who I will never know.
But I don’t see how having 10 biological kids makes me ‘super-alpha’.
LikeLike
lol. Typical woman who’s willing to “make the ancient vow” but still wants to qualify it.
You write “…but he has to pull his weight, and that’s on the financial end.”
Did you forget the “for richer, for poorer” part of the vow, or would you prefer to ignore that?
See guys? Hit a dry spell and the bitch is gone. It’s like life in a baboon troop on the African savanna.
LikeLike
Agreed.
LikeLike
I once dated a much older woman (44 to my 33) who had previously been financially taken care of in her marriage, and deeply resented that i wasn’t able to do so for her, at the time.
I hadn’t the heart to tell her that the fact of her being older changed the rules. She didn’t get to expect a younger man to also take care of her financially. Men pay for youth and beauty, not age and beauty. Amazing that she didn’t know that – but I guess that’s why hard facts are called hard. Truth can hurt so much people don’t want to face it. She kept telling me how she looked young for her age. Ya, right. People don’t look young for their age – people look their age.
But ya, my attitude was that if she didn’t want me in poorer, then she didn’t deserve me in richer.
I’ve since made friends with the fact that many women date based on finances. I no longer hate them for it. I’m no longer idealistic and romantic about love, but I still don’t play the game they want me to.
LikeLike
“I’ve since made friends with the fact that many women date based on finances”
Yes. But remember that Fame > Game > Wealth for men, as per Roissy, which I agree with.
There are plenty of high-income men that are still very Beta, and get laid a lot less than a broke bartender or drummer in a no-name band.
Plus, if you are wealthy AND have game, you will get a lot of women without actually spending money. That is the key. Women are attracted to men who HAVE money, but the man may not know that he doesn’t actually have to spend that money on the woman.
LikeLike
“I once dated a much older woman (44 to my 33) ”
A 44 year old woman wanting a 33 year old man to support her? Fuck that. At 44, she is lucky to get a man who is 55.
LikeLike
Check out Brad’s history with women — the way he changes his demeanor, attitude, even his hairstyle to emulate that of the woman he’s with (platinum blonde with Gwyneth, all-American down-to-earth with Jen, moody and save-the-world with Angie). Brad is good-looking and rich but he has a malleable (read: wishy-washy) personality that isn’t exactly alpha.
LikeLike
“the way he changes his demeanor, attitude, even his hairstyle to emulate that of the woman he’s with (platinum blonde with Gwyneth, all-American down-to-earth with Jen, moody and save-the-world with Angie). ”
I want to see him date a black woman, at this point. Will he get Jheri curls? Will he start wearing jewelry?
LikeLike
Expat, Tood:
“Why?”
I won’t quote your whole posts for readability, but the crux of the matter is that reproduction is our one and only biological purpose in life. It’s not that kids give you meaning or success, it’s that they allow you to pass on your genes. And given the rampant breeding of the unintelligent, I would think that the smarter folk would realize that they should procreate equally in order to give some hope to future generations of humanity. It’s not about you or your family, it’s about the species.
Similarly, alphaness isn’t just about your influence today, it’s about your influence over generations to come. Clinton is alpha both because he’s procreated and because he’s affected the course of human history in a major way due to his political role. Perhaps my original statement was too harsh; however, most of us aren’t Socrates or Jesus or Michelangelo, and our best chance of having an impact beyond our years is to have children. And if you are that great a man, wouldn’t future generations be best served by having your offspring amongst them?
LikeLike
OK, so I have 10 biological children, due to the reasons I mentioned. In 200 years, I will have thousands of descendants. What do you have to say about that.
Actually, since sperm banks only accept the sperm of men in the top 2-4% of all men (in terms of height, education, health), women should go to sperm banks only, and not get pregnant any other way. That way, only the best genes, at least on the male side, will pass on.
LikeLike
More smart people might be good, but I doubt it. I think less people would be better. I consider having kids as socially irresponsible.
Mind you I’m not fond of the fact that some of the stupider people breed the most, but that doesn’t change my greeny opinions on over-population.
And as I mentioned, artificial intelligence will eventually have an impact – possibly making smart humans less valuable.
LikeLike
And Tood, if you really do have 10 kids all by different mothers, you are quite alpha. Sperm banks typically accept less than 10 percent of applicants, and afterwards you still have to be chosen by each woman based on your profile.
LikeLike
I posted that after your response, Tood, but I think your point is reasonable.
LikeLike
“I consider having kids as socially irresponsible.”
OK, that is where you lose credibility with me. ‘Socially irresponsible’ is just leftist codespeak for self-loathing and jealous. These are the same leftists who travel by private jet and have homes that consume 20 times as much electricity as others.
LikeLike
Guilt by association? No thanks. Leftist, rightist, whatever. Deal with the individual ideas, or don’t deal at all.
Lumpist.
LikeLike
Tood:
This is quickly going to go nowhere fast, so I’ll just ask this: address Expat’s (and other poster’s) points directly, and if you’re going to relate them to other issues, please provide details both about how they relate and why those connections discredit the original claim.
I don’t disagree with you here, but your reasoning is flawed.
LikeLike
The late, great Sam Kinison on men and marriage and other things.
LikeLike
Expat:
Yes, the planet is getting overpopulated, but the answer for that isn’t for those of us who are smart enough to know that to stop reproducing. If everyone on the planet had 2 children, we’d all be fine. Unfortunately, what happens is that some people (generally the less intelligent) have 10, while others (generally the more intelligent) have none or one, and the human population both grows and gets dumber. I honestly don’t know what the answer for this is; I do know that the stupid people won’t stop breeding, so if there is to be any hope for humanity, the smart people better not either.
LikeLike
Genetic engineering may soon make stupid babies a thing of the past. Or at the very least, make smart children an option that anyone can choose.
I doubt we need to worry too much about maintaining enough of the better races. Soon enough we will be manipulating human genes, on our way to our trans-human future.
LikeLike
Brad Pitt is 45 years old. If you look as worn out and wasted as Brad Pitt at 45 you’re living a pretty good life.
How much handsomer and healthier can a man be at 45?
But, yeah, I call him Brad Jolie. He still looks great but he is a henpecked beta at this point in his life.
I guess in his mid 50s he’ll go nuts and hook up with an insanely gorgeous 19 year old.
Come on Brad, you know you can do it!
LikeLike
And it is actually feasible to infect stupid people with a virus that will alter their sperm, effective making their sperm genes smart. Not sure about genetic engeneering of women eggs, while they are still in the ovaries, but I’m guessing thats a possibility as well. And all with viruses
Our future is incredibly unpredictable. Smart people having kids is such a low tech and old fashioned idea as to be nearly irrelevent. Well, not yet, but it will be.
LikeLike
twiceaday—–at what point in human history did brains become sexy?
It has long been the case that the most intelligent men in societies eschewed women. And I’m not just talking about Catholic monastaries. Reams of historical evidence from any society on earth show the extremely intelligent living as recluses or denying themselves sex or turing to homosexuality so as to avoid women. Greece, China, India, Egypt….ascetics come about, and the first thing they do is deny themselves women.
History/Civilization isn’t made by the smart, and never has been. it has been made by those who dominate. We are not getting dumber, we are just following the pattern.
LikeLike
um, right.
rock stars don’t get married?
professional athletes don’t get married?
male porn directors don’t get married?
etc.
you have your flashes of brilliance, omw, but at other times you write like someone who has lived your entire life in a NOW meeting.
men are opting out of marriage, and in many cases out of major relationships altogether, because our society has convinced a great many women that marriage/relationships are, and should be, a one-way street.
LikeLike
what are the asterisks? are those just to emphasize the neighboring parenthetical comments?
—
also, the “married men live longer” thing is an obvious statistical artifact.
first, those studies only include men who actually stay married until their deaths. the problem here is obvious.
second, it should be obvious that marriage rates, in today’s society, correlate highly with socioeconomic class: the poor, especially poor blacks, don’t marry much at all, and they also don’t live anywhere near as long.
furthermore, the causation is almost certainly reversed. instead of marriage –> longer life, it should be longevity-increasing factors –> marriage. i.e., men who have conservative, healthful, non-excessively-risk-taking habits are more likely to choose marriage than devil-may-care types.
the only reason that such a farcical statistic can gain any traction at all, much less persist and percolate through the general consciousness, is because most people are really fucking stupid and will never understand, or even want to understand, even the most basic statistics.
LikeLike
tood:
if i were you, i wouldn’t be so smug about your prolific history of sperm donation.
i’ve ruminated on the idea myself, but have decided against it after reading that sperm donors have been ordered to pay child support. granted, that particular decision was reversed, but you never know how bad the feminocracy is going to get.
and you’re a fool if you think that “anonymous” sperm donation is really so. hint: 50% of the child’s dna is not anonymous.
you heard it here first: within the next couple of decades, even so-called “anonymous” sperm donors will find their wages mysteriously garnished.
retroactively.
perhaps time to move your assets, and maybe your ass, overseas.
LikeLike
The solution to this, for the man who wants marriage, is to demand reciprocity. Demand and enforce it. Or leave. A lack of reciprocity is definitely a major turn off.
I think men are often not demanding enough, too patient, and put up with far too much nonsense useless gab.
Many times a day I simply tell my girlfriend “stop talking”. And she does.
We don’t have to be feminized in order to enjoy females.
LikeLike
This is a fact. Complaining about marriage laws in the presence of women ranks a little above playing World of Warcraft in carnival in betaness. You complain about it only in the presence of men. Or in internet foruns.
If the romans were really suffering at the hands of the barbarian hordes, they would know how to get it back under control.
LikeLike
truth.
important addendum:
if you don’t do this FROM THE BEGINNING OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP, it will have a nearly zero chance of succeeding at any later point.
if you fuck up and go beta at any point during the first couple months of a relationship, hit the restart button and get another relationship.
anyone who doesn’t appreciate the tremendous importance of first impressions has never met a woman.
LikeLike
J5, in the case the donor wasn’t anonymous at all. He asked for it. Sperm donation is to good as a way to “liberate”women from men and weaken the nuclear family for feminists to screw with it.
LikeLike
I’ve heard that. I think guys that have previously been “good” husbands and got doormatted have less tolerance for crap. We become edgier, paradoxically making us better mates.
I guess it comes down to setting the frame. Broadcasting your expectations. And some sense of threat. Living with someone is very similar to raising a kid. Or training a dog. You want to broadcast good feelings, but also a sense of authority. For me, I prefer outright dominance. I don’t do equality anymore. I’m much more paternal now.
The notion of being dominant in a relationship to my twenty something self would have seemed rediculous and callous and just wrong. Ha! How real life will alter views.
LikeLike
this is an accurate observation.
it also does nothing to refute my claim, which is that things are going to get worse. in any snowball effect, the initial snowball (snowball sub 0, if you will) is, of course, small.
or:
tidal waves don’t start as tidal waves.
—
i concur that sperm donors are complicit in the destruction of all that has created modern western civilization.
LikeLike
a-fucking-men.
if you’re ever in doubt as to how to best react to a misbehaving, demanding, or disrespectful girlfriend or wife, ask yourself what an old-line patriarchal dad would do with his wayward thirteen-year-old daughter, and act in parallel.
in fact, treating your woman in general like a treasured and darling, but wayward and impressionable, teenage daughter, is not only an excellent way to proceed, but also an incredibly simple, effective, and instant source of decision-making help for hapless feminist-raised beta men.
the only time the teenage-daughter analogy breaks down is in the fucking part.
in the bedroom (and in other rooms, and everywhere else), you should handle, talk to, and fuck your woman as though punishing her. if this idea is anathema to you, then you’re a eunuch.
afterward is the time for the lovey-dovey stuff (only if you acually love her, of course).
all you readers can thank me later.
LikeLike
ALL my girlfriends of the last 7 years call me Daddy.
Try it. Much better than sweetheart, or dear.
LikeLike
“you heard it here first: within the next couple of decades, even so-called “anonymous” sperm donors will find their wages mysteriously garnished. retroactively”
This isn’t where this is going. What’s happening is that the kids of sperm donors are now growing up, organizing and demanding to know about half their DNA (much like adoptees).
In England, kids are now allowed to find out who their fathers are when they turned 18. Thus sperm donations have pretty much stopped.
Below is a link to a Nov. 2008 article about this, and here is an excerpt:
“Anonymous sperm and egg donation was banned in the UK in 2005, meaning children can now trace their biological parents when they are 18.”
This will come to the US, but things usually take longer to get organized here, because the country is bigger.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-wellbeing/health-news/fears-over-shortage-of-sperm-donors-1013450.html
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii notonly owns this thread, he is the best commenter in this blog.
One of the things that bothered me the most while working in Investment banking was exactly what he describes above. The other side of the coin was the beta who married a gold digger and knew that if he spent to much time at home his wike would start bitching and thinking about divorce
It is perfectly possible for an IB to function from 9am to 8pm. The work done in extra hours is largely redundant. Most of time people re-do work done by other banks. But those losers married with hags were the ones interested in starting work at 8 am or before and leaving at 9 pm or later. Those losers added nothing to my bonus since the extra work was largely redundant but fucked my social life. After 2 years in that life I decided to leave in 2006.
LikeLike
@Welmer
“lol. Typical woman who’s willing to “make the ancient vow” but still wants to qualify it.
Did you forget the “for richer, for poorer” part of the vow, or would you prefer to ignore that?
See guys? Hit a dry spell and the bitch is gone. It’s like life in a baboon troop on the African savanna.”
Um, asshole, if I’m cooking, cleaning, raising his kids, and maintaining my score of 45 on roissy’s marketability test, when would I work? Seriously, there are 24 hours in a day.
And who said I’d leave in a dry spell? Did you miss my comment about ‘money-whores’? I’ve been with this guy for 8 years and, trust me, we’ve had our share of financial difficulties. And yet, even without the commitments of marriage or kids, I stick around. Even when guys way richer than my sweetie try to entice me with goodies…
So, kindly, fuck you too.
LikeLike
hAHA, here’s where your perception fails: Clooney is gay.
LikeLike
meh, I already said that about Gorgeous George
Slick Rick:
“Firepower, ‘no man’ man lets his beard get gray? What kind of loser dies his beard? Have some self respect and be proud of your age.”
Uh, no man who got paid millions
bc he once looked like PlayGirl July Queef of the Month.
LikeLike
>Pitt got roped into a multi-adoption, weirdo wife pseudo-
>marriage. He looks like a married man who woke up
>wondering what the hell just happened. Substitute
>almost any 5+ years married man you see walking about
>town and the truth of my observations becomes
>indisputable.
Roissy,
Three words:
Common Law Marriage.
Pitt has one.
LikeLike
How do you get the time to have guys way richer than your sweetie entice you with goodies when you are working so darn hard.
LikeLike
An Experienced Father
No his is not common law married. Period.
California like New York and many other states, does not recognize common law marriage. No matter how long two people live together.
However, he does have child support obligations big time.
A number of southern states and some others do recognize common law marriage. Though generally you have to hold yourself out as married. I.e. tell other people you are, and so on. Also in most of the states that recognize it, less than ten I think, you generally have to both INTEND to get married. I.e. you just haven’t gotten around to the formalties yet. Living together including for a long time is NOT enough. In most states neither is having children together.
Finefantastic said that where she is, which is I believe somewhere in Canada, living together for as little as six months can create the same obligations as marriage. Don’t know
LikeLike
So much as some (or many) married men and women may want to tell those men who (wisely) chose to live together rather than marry, they’re WRONG.
LikeLike
So much as some (or many) married men may want to tell those men who (wisely) chose to live together rather than marry, that we’re in the same soup they are, they’re WRONG.
LikeLike
Doug,
That needs to go in the book of self protection for men. Research on all that shit.
LikeLike
Inner city sleazebag.
LikeLike
You have quite an interesting perspective! A lot of the things you write are true to some extent, but since the world is not black and white, the same things can also be viewed in an entirely different light.
As a female, it’s hurtful to read some of the things you write. Beauty is of course very important not just for find a mate, but in business and friendships. It’s hurtful because you seem to like to focus just on the negatives, which makes you seem like a mean guy. Just another mean guy.
Why be so mean? It seems like you’re fighting for or against something in your own life. I understand not wanting to get married, but when you devote so much mental and emotional energy being negative about women and writing against marriage, it colors your consciousness. Focusing on the negative for as many years as you have must make your life kind of dark, no? If that’s your thing great. You may be a scorpio or something. Or maybe you’ve resigned yourself to not believing that love is real.
But people have enough pain in their lives to not need you to add to it. You cause me pain, and for that I am angry at you. Why do I read this? Because part of me is in pain, and I like to feed that cycle.
I think if you stopped writing this blog, and tried to shift your focus on the positive aspects of all things you discuss here, your life and the life of your many resigned readers would dramatically improve in the very areas you discuss.
In plain english, stop fucking writing this cruel shit just because you want to transcend it. You’re causing yourself a lot more harm than you imagine.
LikeLike
Bill Maher said it best:
y’know, married women always say that….well, you know that house cats DO live longer…..yeah, but would you really call that living?
–
LikeLike
if this idea is anathema to you, then you’re a eunuch.
I guess I’m a eunuch.
You may be a scorpio or something.
I’m a scorpio! 🙂
LikeLike
Who the hell does Roissy think he is to offer advice to people? Roissy is some unemployed blogger in suburban DC while Brad Pitt is a globe-trotting and very wealthy movie star.
LikeLike
dougjnn
<iYou know what really disgusts me. In all the times that Roissy’s written about the unfairness of American divorce law to men, …. I’ve never ONCE seen a woman agree to a specific change in the law, much less offer one.
That’s because like 99% of the population you look for ways to support your prejudices and opinions. Guess you never read the part about how I TURNED DOWN 3.5 years of alimony because #1 I didn’t want to be dependent on it for such a long period of time and #2 I didn’t think it was fair to my ex-husband.
Some of us don’t just talk the talk we walk the walk. As far as the laws goes…I don’t really care what the laws are because I don’t live my life by human law, but attempt at least, to live by “spiritual” law or what feels right to me as a person.
I recently had the legal right to evict renters from my house for not paying rent and didn’t go that route either and now they are paying me rent again.
Get over yourself. In a nutshell one of the biggest reasons men and women hate and resent each other is because men are DEPENDENT on women for sex and women are (quite often) DEPENDENT on men for financial support. Yes, modern women can support themselves after a fashion, but we are wired by NATURE to depend on men for providing and protection.
Why do you think a woman you barely know will bend over backwards literally in an attempt to give you the best blow job you’ve ever had in your life? Millions of years of evolution where women traded sex for providing and protection don’t disappear in 40 years of so-called feminism (which is anything but feminine). Feminism is against everything feminine. How can something be called feminism when it basically masculanizes women? Yada, yada, yada, yada…
LikeLike
da:
one: that wouldn’t be news to anyone here.
two: aren’t you the guy with sixty thousand terabytes of brazzers?
if i recall correctly, a lot of porn may be fake to the point of ridiculousness, and may border on boring for those of us with real women at our disposal, but, most fucking in porn is much closer to my kind of fucking than to the beta gentle-sensitive-loverboy kind.
in short:
don’t your beloved brazzers girls get fucked as though they’re being punished?
cause guess what – if you want that kind of girl, you’d better be prepared to punish her.
otherwise someone else will.
…cuckold boy.
LikeLike
twiceaday: “And given the rampant breeding of the unintelligent, I would think that the smarter folk would realize that they should procreate equally in order to give some hope to future generations of humanity.”
The ‘smarter folk’ have tried this before. It was called Nazi Germany.
LikeLike
hi sara!
this is admirable. it’s also irrelevant to doug’s point, which is that women don’t support changes to the law.
if you had not only turned down alimony but also shamed your girlfriends who collected it, and lobbied in some way for its elimination or reduction, THEN you would have a point here.
see, here’s the problem: yes, there are women out there, like you apparently, who are reasonable and fair about these things. but said reasonable women are notoriously silent when it comes to legal pressure.
THE UNREASONABLE WOMEN ARE DRIVING THE LAW.
unfortunately, much of american public policy is a matter of “she who shouts the loudest makes the rules”.
while you are well-intentioned, you are not shouting loudly enough to really do anything about it.
sara, honey dear, women are dependent on us for sex, too. if you don’t realize that, you’ve simply never had sex good enough to become dependent on.
as testosterone-driven as we men are, we ultimately depend on women more for nurturing and companionship than for sex. (note to young bucks out there: i said “ultimately”. being a lone wolf loses its glamour slowly but steadily.)
LikeLike
godwin shrugged.
you can’t seriously be suggesting a causal link between a desire to increase smart people’s birthrates and fascism… can you?
really?
yeah, do us a favor and don’t procreate, then.
thx.
LikeLike
@ Gunslingergregi
“How do you get the time to have guys way richer than your sweetie entice you with goodies when you are working so darn hard.”
a) We’re not married yet, and we don’t have kids, so I have less work.
b) I know quite a few heirs, so I don’t have to look for the rich guys, lol, but, if I did, I live in a good city for that. Like ‘Welmer the asshole’ said, it’s like baboons on a African savannah: they’re everywhere.
LikeLike
don’t your beloved brazzers girls get fucked as though they’re being punished?
Depending on the porn stars involved, sometimes yes, other times no, but is all hard fucking magically punishing?
Regardless, I know that those girls will probably want harder, rougher sex, but I’m probably the last guy to deliver that since I’m much too small and weak to have any sex in the first place, and there’s just a mental beta male block that prevents me from acting that way even if she were to enjoy it. It’s weird noting that I can watch scenes like that, and become aroused by it, but imagining myself in a similar situation induces nightmares and mental anguish.
Plus, one must admit, while sexual looking girls may induce desire, most “cute” looking girls look awful in porn in the rougher scenes.
otherwise someone else will.
…cuckold boy.
That’s one of the reasons as to why I opted out. Being the beta male friend to a girl who fucks alphas is much cheaper, more flexible, and less degrading than being the cuckolded boyfriend. I get the hugs and emotional benefits, he gets the use of her orifices for sex, and everybody walks away happy from the arrangement.
LikeLike
dougjnn,
In California they invented the legal concept of “Palimoney” to do what Common Law Marriage did.
Six of one, a half dozen of the other.
The Lawyers get rich and everyone else gets angry and poor.
LikeLike
@ DA
“I know that those girls will probably want harder, rougher sex, but I’m probably the last guy to deliver that since I’m much too small and weak to have any sex in the first place”
David… that is truly the saddest thing I have ever heard in my life.
LikeLike
“you can’t seriously be suggesting a causal link between a desire to increase smart people’s birthrates and fascism… can you?”
The Nazis officially and fervently supported eugenics and other efforts intended to improve the German and overall European stock. The link isn’t merely “causal” – it’s very well documented.
LikeLike
David… that is truly the saddest thing I have ever heard in my life.
It’s not sad, but it’s simply honest realism. It makes very little sense to be delusional about myself and my chances like the vast majority of beta males.
My pretty lie has perished.
LikeLike
Also, under Mussolini the Italian birthrate increased dramatically, especially amongst the Italian middle and upper classes – which lead to a smarter and healthier population overall. The same occurred in fascist Spain under Franco.
However, under the degeneracy of ‘democracy’ the birthrates of native Italians and Spaniards has plummeted to far below replacement levels, and as a result those nations will almost entirely cease to exist in only a few decades because they are currently being taken over by Arabs, Africans, and other third world refuse who breed indiscriminately despite their low IQ, low skills, and low income.
LikeLike
David,
I don’t know what has taken place in your life to lead you to this conclusion, but, really, you need to get over it. The viscous strands of self-pity that you ooze all over this website are off-putting, especially to the kind of girl you profess to like (acrylic nails, T&A, etc).
Shake that shit off, and go get you some ass.
Real talk.
LikeLike
especially to the kind of girl you profess to like (acrylic nails, T&A, etc).
I know that talk is off-putting to any woman, but given the competition of males for that type of female, there’s no chance of that ever happening given that there are bigger, taller, stronger, better looking, more famous, more charismatic, and richer men that are out them. Even in a hypothetical world where I used game, I’m still screwed if the better looking competition is using it too.
Shake that shit off, and go get you some ass.
Eh, it’s much easier to stay at home and jerk off than to go deal with the real world.
LikeLike
DA: Just to point out that the reasons I went off betas completely and cannot actually stand them was two bad experiences of betas not coming through with the proper beta goods (i.e. they were just confusing sex and love). Before that, love and taking care of me was very nice for me, and I was commited to the whole marriage and forever thing.
You’re not attracted to that kind of girl, anyway, but just to throw it in there that some women are sufficiently indoctrinated to love betas and stay faithful forever/long enough for it to have been worthwhile.
I’m sure you’ll meet some nice feminist somewhere who’ll just bully you into marrying her… ?
LikeLike
On the cause for the sorry state of marriage:
Women listen to other women way more than men listen to other men, thus if the women in America are generally toxic to marriage, it is very difficult for a single woman to ignore all the advice of her ‘sisters’. Thus the exception is far, far rarer than one would think.
My last comments were somewhat excessive…. but represent a goal that most modern liberal women would like to achieve(and in some cases have).
As time has passed, all female responsibilities towards marriage have vanished…. except the final one of having a man’s kids. And it has been made sure that the man will pay for that! And even that is being eaten away at by ever declining birthrates and children-by-other-men who the ‘father’ has to pay for.
In fact, since the woman is free to become preganant by another man and claim it was her husband and he still has to pay, I would say that this final, single, obligation of women in marriage is truly debatable.
HA! My late night exhausted ramblings were right after all!
LikeLike
On the above, look out for super-toxic man-hating wack-jobs as your wifes ‘friends’. They CAN make your life hell, by wife-puppet proxy.
LikeLike
but just to throw it in there that some women are sufficiently indoctrinated to love betas and stay faithful forever/long enough for it to have been worthwhile
I believe those girls are called ugly girls, and after a while, even they thirst for alpha cock.
I’m sure you’ll meet some nice feminist somewhere who’ll just bully you into marrying her… ?
Since it’s highly unlikely that said female would meet my minimum standards for sex, I would suspect that the nice feminist in question would never marry me since I’d never ask her out, and she’d want a stronger man or somebody who’s more fun to push around. Besides, as evidenced by my posts, I can be a bit stubborn at times, and that makes for a bad submissive.
LikeLike
if you’re ever in doubt as to how to best react to a misbehaving, demanding, or disrespectful girlfriend or wife, ask yourself what an old-line patriarchal dad would do with his wayward thirteen-year-old daughter, and act in parallel.
Any guy who’d attempt that would get tossed out of my house.
LikeLike
So, you behave as a “misbehaving, demanding, or disrespectful girlfriend or wife”?
And don’t expect to be punished for that?
Yuh huh. You’d be tossed out of MY house.
LikeLike
The ’smarter folk’ have tried this before. It was called Nazi Germany.
Nah. The Nazis didn’t care how smart the breeders were, only how Aryan they were.
LikeLike
Anon,
“Any guy who’d attempt that would get tossed out of my house.”
Now would that be a house that you were paying the mortgage on?
LikeLike
It is a bliss and a fortune to believe in marriage, to believe in God, to trust someone or something… To believe is not to be swayed by reason. We either believe in it or not. It is a matter of luck, not of competence.
LikeLike
You are on fucking drugs
Angelina is smoking
stops with this alpha gay-borderline worship or buy 2 tons of Jergens lotion
Just done spew your nonsense about Angelina
LikeLike
Lifestyle Lift – Turning 60 year old 2’s into 4’s every day –
http://www.lifestylelift.com/subpages/beforeandafter/beforeafter3.php?addid=
Raise any aging woman’s looks by 2 points! Guaranteed!
LikeLike
In only one hour!
LikeLike
Anonymous 8:46pm–
No she would be tossed out of MY house, if it comes to that (which it almost certainly wouldn’t) because it’s STAYED MINE, among other reasons because I didn’t marry her but instead let her move in with me.
Thanks for helping make my, and Roissy’s, point.
Your hostility to all we are saying helped do that brilliantly.
LikeLike
Johnny Five —
It would be admirable if what you’re supposing were true, but it isn’t. Sara very carefully did a very partial disclose when she talked about turning down 3.5 years of alimony.
Yeah, but took half the time period that California gave her, and that’s ON TOP OF FORMULA CHILDSUPPORT, which includes a large component of (non tax deductible by him or taxable to her) child support as well for high earning ex husbands. As hers was. Oh and half the “marital property” which was all earned by him, the stock portfolio and the valuable house. She took the house, meaning the stocks were worth as much. No doubt he also paid all kinds of support and her lawyers fees during the pendency of the divorce too, rather than those things being deducted from her half.
She divorced him she’s said because he was a workaholic. I.e. he was a big time beta provider. I.e. she lost sexual or emotional interest in her ex beta, but retained a big interest in what he had and continued to provide.
So yes Sara did go the indentured servitude route for her ex husband.
Divorce law in California is particularly obscene and she just forswore a small part of that oppression, while benefiting from most of it.
Guys get the feminist programing out of your head that you morally OWE your exwife half of what you’ve made and saved and invested in various ways. That was not the law until fairly recently. It’s particularly obscene for high earnings. And it’s not right.
If she wants to continue to enjoy the fruits of your labor she can remain your wife — and do a good job of it.
LikeLike
But since that isn’t the law when you marry, esp. without a prenup that works as hard as possible to put you in the position of not having married but instead living together, DON’T MARRY.
Instead when the time is right, live together.
LikeLike
An Experienced Father
First of all that’s mostly just California, and why I said Brad Pitt should have a co-habitation agreement. Though Jolie probably makes almost as much as he does. Though she probably won’t for much longer.
Second it’s bases on contract, written or verbal. It shouldn’t be based on verbal contract but in Cali, it is. So be careful what you promise. There’s also uniquely in Cali this concept of “implied promise” which divorce lawyers and feminists tried to use as a wedge to getting full divorce court treatment and awards, but have failed at getting. These cases are in regular court not divorce court, which is a very good thing. There’s no concept of getting half the assets for example unless that was promised and she can convince the jury it was.
But in Calif if you have a lot of money and she doesn’t, yeah you ought to get a cohabitation agreement. These can be much simpler than pre-nups. She after all will have the burden of proving to the jury that you promised her something other than what you said in the written cohab agreement. If you aren’t too well off and want to live together in Cali, simply writting up something yourself would probably work fine. I.e.:
we each take out of the relationship what we ourselves earned and saved, and any clear gifts from one of us to the other. There will be no support obligations when and if we do break up.
That really would probably do it.
THAT may be the essence of a prenup, but it’s got to be a lot more formal than that to stand up.
LikeLike
So, you behave as a “misbehaving, demanding, or disrespectful girlfriend or wife”?
And don’t expect to be punished for that?
Yuh huh. You’d be tossed out of MY house.
Nice attempt at putting words in my mouth. I’m a fully-functioning, self-supporting adult. I’ve never been demanding, and no one will ever be in a position to tell me I’m “misbehaving”, never mind in a position to punish me. Respect is a two-way street. You want a parent-child relationship? Have a child, but don’t attempt to impose it upon a rational adult.
Now would that be a house that you were paying the mortgage on?
Absolutely — that was the point.
No she would be tossed out of MY house, if it comes to that (which it almost certainly wouldn’t) because it’s STAYED MINE, among other reasons because I didn’t marry her but instead let her move in with me.
Thanks for helping make my, and Roissy’s, point.
Thanks for missing *my* point entirely: I already own my own house, with no assistance from, or reliance on, any man. If you’re resentful that a woman can make the same choice that you did, with a house that she earned herself, then that’s your own problem.
Your hostility to all we are saying helped do that brilliantly.
How is what I said hostile? If a man treated me like a child I sure would throw him out, because I’d never put myself in the position of having my home contingent upon someone’s whim in the first place. You started by saying that you’d punish your woman if she got “out of line” — an open-ended concept, that — and somehow *that’s* not hostility?
Yeah, good luck with that worldview. I’m sure it makes it easier for you to hate women by dismissing them all as money-grubbing cum-guzzlers, but we’re not all like that.
LikeLike
Anonymous —
If you earned your own home rather than winning it in a feminist divorce law settlement, then good for you, and no I don’t resent that at all.
I also won’t remotely be in a position to be thrown out of your house for exerting male leadership, because I wouldn’t remotely have moved into your house, with your personality and views, in the first place.
LikeLike
At the real risk of beating adead horse, I gotta say something.
Based on what he’s said, there is nothing physically wrong w/Dave. He can get reliable wood by way of viewing porn, and has no handicaps. His being short, and according to him, ugly, has not prevented other similarly situated Men from getting laid, indeed, getting married-to Women who were demonstrably better looking. We all know of such people. We see them early and often.
If Dave were to actually pickup the book The Game and actually read it, instead of spending what seems like his every waking hour whoring for attention and sympathy here (and possibly elsehwhere?!), he would learn vry quickly that many PUAs are NOT what one would consider as having “leading man looks”. Indeed, Style/Strauss describes himself in a way that ain’t that far from Dave-short, odd looking, into things most people would consider just a bit weird. Yet Style is regarded as one of the most important figures in the field.
What’s the difference between Style and Dave? Well, I suppose one could count the ways, but after giving it some thought I think I have at least one answer-age.
Unless I miss my guess, Style got into Game around his 30th year or so, a major turning point in a Man’s life. Dave’s still in his mid 20s, & quite sheltered at that, since he doesn’t hav to worry about keeping the lights on and food on the table. Dave Alex can afford, literally, to indulge in bullshit hypotheses & pipedreams because there’s no real consequence should he find out they don’t add up-he can simply go back to ma dukes’ basement and jackoff.
I would like to kindly suggest that despite all his proclamations to the contrary, Dave Alex is not a happy soul, content w/his lot in life. Indeed, his actions belie the exact opposite, and it is those bad emotions that keeps driving him here. If he were truly happy w/his decisions, no one would hear from him-why should they, right? He’s got a near inexhaustible source of porn, a low rent (if not rent free) place to hang his hat, and a circle of “friends” who will accept him on the periphery. So, why does he keep coming here?
He keeps coming here because he’s suffering from a massive case of Cognitive Dissonance, that’s why. His words and actions don’t line up w/each other, and which explains a large part as to why he can’t get no action in realtime.
Im not in the position to attempt to assess Dave’s mental or emotional state. But what I can say, is that Dave is a prima facia case, if there ever was one, of what can happen when a Father fails his son. And let me be clear here-I’m not talking making your son out to be the next Mack Daddy-simply a normal, well adjusted guy who does “okay” with the gals. It is clear to me that this has never happend w/Dave, & that if there is to ever be any remedy here, it will have to come Dave.
At any rate, Dave, if you’re reading along, I would like to ask a request of you: please, please, please stop making such posts as the ones that appear in the thread above. They don’t get your sympathy or empathy; indeed they only get more and more scorn and ridicule heaped upon you. You claim to be a Man of at least some dignity; have enough to leave well enough alone. Methinks the bulk and mass of contributors and readers have had far more of their fill of your words.
Just my two cents.
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Obsidian writes (about David Alexander): “He keeps coming here because he’s suffering from a massive case of Cognitive Dissonance, that’s why.” I suspect DA keeps coming here because he gets a lot of attention. He’s a performance artist, and a really good and even pretty original one. My hunch, anyway.
Hey, speaking (as Obsidian was) about “The Game”? The Neil Strauss book? I’m nearly through it. Enjoying it, learning, etc. I confess that my bullshit alarm keeps going off though. Lots of specifics … But mainly the whole “I was a total dweeb, yet IN ONLY ONE YEAR I transformed myself into one of the world’s leading PUAs” thing. Really? It all seems amazingly heightened, sweetened, convenient. A good yarn enjoyably told, but beyond-unlikely in many respects.
On the other hand, I’m old, I have zero experience with this world, and my instincts for popular culture generally are shot.
Does anyone else have a few suspicions/doubts about Strauss and his tales? Can anyone who has some real knowledge and experience of the PUA world (and/or maybe Strauss himself) provide enlightenment?
LikeLike
Michael:
I read the book last year and wondered the same thing. He either overstated his success in the PUA world or understated his humble beginnings. He mentioned that Mystery felt he had a natural ability to pick up on PUA teachings, but I find it curious that a writer, coincidentally, was able to become one of the world’s greatest PUAs. I also find it curious that he had the ability to become a PUA, steep himself in the culture, then snap out of it in a moment of clarity in order to write a popular book about his experiences. I know he set out to write the book, but the mixture of opportunism and coincidence is fishy to me.
I think he’s a good story teller (albeit mediocre writer) who found an opportunity to cash in on the fledgling PUA world. I consider Neil Strauss the Travel Channel of writers. Several years ago the Travel Channel capitalized on the Texas Hold Em poker craze. I see Strauss in that light.
LikeLike
But what I can say, is that Dave is a prima facia case, if there ever was one, of what can happen when a Father fails his son.
It’s one thing to comment about me, but you crossed the line when you stated that my father failed me.
Fuck you.
LikeLike
The Neil Strauss book? I’m nearly through it. Enjoying it, learning, etc. I confess that my bullshit alarm keeps going off though. Lots of specifics … But mainly the whole “I was a total dweeb, yet IN ONLY ONE YEAR I transformed myself into one of the world’s leading PUAs” thing. Really? It all seems amazingly heightened, sweetened, convenient. A good yarn enjoyably told, but beyond-unlikely in many respects.
Strauss makes it sound way easier than it is, but it really is possible to make amazing progress in one year. I just passed the one year mark since my first cold approach and I can’t believe I am the same person. The unspoken part about Strauss’ book is that he basically stopped working and went out every night as wingman for Mystery, the best pickup artist in the world. He did almost nothing else for a year. You do that and you will improve at an insane rate. Most guys though have school/jobs/whatever, so they will not get good nearly so fast. Judging by my own experience, I don’t find Strauss’ book implausible at all.
LikeLike
As an additional note, the guys who will see the most dramatic improvement are those who already have good overall social skills, but are just lacking in this one specific area. Strauss was able to work his way up to being a writer for Rolling Stone and the New York Times, so he probably always had been pretty good with people.
LikeLike
Purely as a writer, Strauss is about on the same level as Boswell. Boswell was lucky enough to have Samuel Johnson as a subject, while Strauss has to make due with Mystery and Courtney Love. Still, The Game is both interesting enough and well written enough that it might survive as literature.
LikeLike
Thursday: “I don’t find Strauss’ book implausible at all.”
Wow!
LikeLike
Reminds me of my favourite Joseph Smith quote:
“No man knows my history. . . . I don’t blame anyone for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I could not have believed it myself.”
LikeLike
Hi Dave Alex,
Yes, you heardit right. Let me repeat it:
Your father has failed you. He has failed to give you the confidence you need to go and make something of yourself, of which Women plays a big part. As much as you like to draw distinctions between yourself and African Americans, when you get right down to it, there aint that much daylight btw you and them insofar as active paternal participation is concerned.
The very fact that you lead such a life today, is a glaring example of just how far your dad has failed. And he is by no means alone-and in this you and the Whites you so revere have so much in common. Both they and you have dads, but only in name only. Like you, those White guys never got the necessary training they needed in such a vital area of their lives, and again, had you read The Game, you’d see Style saying the exact same thing I’m saying here; he indicts his parents, and his dad especially.
I’m sorry if what I said has hurt you. But I will not apologize for saying it. One, because its true, and two because its way past time you grew up, brother.
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Thursday makes a very good point. If anyone chooses to go hardcore at something virtually around the clock for a year or two, its tough not to see at the least marked improvement, if not near mastery. Style devoted himself to Game round the clock, and made it his business to learn from as many of the top names in the business that he could.
I personally find the book to be very good and well written.
O
LikeLike
I wonder how Strauss was able to devote himself fulltime to mastering Game for a year. That was lots of nights at clubs, lots of travel … I mean, financially, that’s huge.
LikeLike
From my understanding, PUAs tend to room together a lot and stay at each other’s places while travelling. That alone radically cuts down on the expenses. Airfare really isn’t too bad; it’s accomodation that gets really expensive.
$10 cover x 365 nights = $3650. Expensive, but manageable. And you can start getting in for free a lot of the time if you get to know people at the clubs and have some sort of status, like writing for Rolling Stone.
LikeLike
I just wish I could have read an embedded PUA account from the likes of Hunter S. Thompson or Tom Wolfe. How much better would that have been?
LikeLike
johnny five
while you are well-intentioned, you are not shouting loudly enough to really do anything about it.
Forgive me for being “airy-fairy” because 99% will dismiss it as new age garbage, but this being an attraction based universer it is virtually impossible to shout NO at something and make it go away. We wish. We can only shout YES at something we want instead. Further, a truly feminine woman cares not one whit about politics (sorry feminists) but cares intensely what effects her in a much more immediately personal way. A truly feminine woman cares more about what she is wearing to dinner, than what is going on in Afghanistan or the White House. It’s as it should be in my opinion. So don’t look to me to do any lobbying whatsoever or even voting for that matter. The world is made up of individuals, who by changing their lives, effect others and that is how real change is made. A truly evolved society needs less laws in general to govern their behavior. If women are “raping” men out of money, it’s because they feel raped I guess.
sara, honey dear, women are dependent on us for sex, too. if you don’t realize that, you’ve simply never had sex good enough to become dependent on.
as testosterone-driven as we men are, we ultimately depend on women more for nurturing and companionship than for sex. (note to young bucks out there: i said “ultimately”. being a lone wolf loses its glamour slowly but steadily.)
johnny, my sweet, it seems you’ve sowed enough wild oats to start an oat farm, but some things money can’t buy? Or something like that. Good for you. Love is free and plentiful, but the fish is thirsty in the river as one wise man said.
And yes, I’ve had dick good enough to be ADDICTED to and IT and the man it was attached to and it was a hell beyond all hell. What I mean is evolutionarily speaking for millions of years, women traded sex for food and we’re still wired for that feminism be damned. Further many women get addicted to a man in record time (try one orgasm in high estrogen cases) much to their shock because before the orgasm they were “in control” but after NOT at all. Nature dictates that we ADHERE to any man we have sex with in order to secure a provider and protector for the baby that might have been created. Far fetched? Blah, blah, blah…..you know the story.
LikeLike
@sara
Your “airy” comments about feminine women not attending to politics is insulting. We can carry great purses and concern ourselves with what goes into the purse. ie. $$$$$$$$$$.
I have very strong views about $$$$$$ policy, taxation, monetary policy, and fiscal policy.
Sara you speak only for yourself, and not the other “feminine” women.
LikeLike
That’s funny, hun. If you’re cooking, cleaning and raising a bunch of kids there’s no way in hell you’ll maintain a score of 45 on that test. The only mothers who can do that have nannies, personal trainers and a whole lot of money — and they don’t work, either.
You suggested it. You said you’d take the vow but you qualified it saying you expect him to support you. The vow is about faith and commitment, not cashing in.
If you haven’t had kids you have no idea what difficulty really means.
Usually, it’s after the commitments of marriage and kids that women bolt. Looks like you’re already setting the guy up.
I can imagine it already:
Chloe to husband someday in the future:
“I married you even though guys way richer than you were offering me all sorts things! And now you don’t even have the gratitude to go to the damned grocery store or change a diaper. You lazy SOB, I took the ancient vow expecting you’d support me, not be some loser who can’t even afford a decent car. Now get up and go buy some shake’n bake and a box of wine. BTW, don’t forget to get some tampons and baby wipes.”
…in the meanwhile Chloe goes back to chatting with horny men online.
LikeLike
dougjnn
No doubt he also paid all kinds of support and her lawyers fees during the pendency of the divorce too, rather than those things being deducted from her half.
She divorced him she’s said because he was a workaholic. I.e. he was a big time beta provider. I.e. she lost sexual or emotional interest in her ex beta, but retained a big interest in what he had and continued to provide.
doug has his bitter brush at the ready as usual. #1 There were no lawyers but a complete agreement on the division of property. My ex compiled the list of assets, I trusted him completely and it was divided 50/50. How would YOU have divided it dougie? 30/70? 10/90? 43/57? Maybe the state of California should have gotten the assets as punishment to both of us for not making the marriage work?
Also, you’re forgetting that my ex was not only a workaholic but a weekend ALCOHOLIC as well. How attractive–or even possible– is it to have sex with someone who’s been drinking non-stop, working in the yard, and passes out without taking a shower??? LOL Doug, you really need to get off your soapbox and get on with your own life. Just a suggestion here!
ALSO at one point he thought it unfair because the house would gain in value more than the money from the mutual funds, so I said, “Okay, then. Take the house I’LL take the money.” At which point he backslid realizing that ousting our daughter from the house she grew up in as well as putting her through the divorce might not be the greatest idea. Sometimes the kids come first. Support of the mother, especially if she is the primary caregiver which I was, is a really nice idea. I had full custody and he had visiting rights because even HE realized that spending such a miniscule amount of time with her up to that point that NO real bond had been created and it would have been much harder on her to go the joint custody route.
Enough? Get over yourself!
LikeLike
Johnny
Dougie is right in saying I DID accept alimony, but HALF of what I was legally “entitled” to. You see, I am just not the entitled type of bitch, but a different type of bitch.
LikeLike
Pardon me for over posting but I just have to comment on this one other thing…
Those eyes are full of life. That smirk says it all. This is the look of a man who knows he made the right decision.
Any woman who knows body language (and obviously FEW do) would avoid any man wearing a smirk period. My ex-lover was the smirk-king. Ugh. It is the hugest red flag and as plain as the nose on your face. It says to me based on my personal experience:
Coy, self-satisfied, smug, arrogant, insecure, passive-aggressive CAD.
LikeLike
Ode
Sara you speak only for yourself, and not the other “feminine” women.
Alrighty then.
LikeLike
Geez, Sara, I hope you at least give the guy a chance to create a bond with his own daughter. If anything makes a woman a bitch in my eyes, it is estranging a man from his own kids.
As for full custody, you are aware that there are two types of custody: legal and physical. Full custody implies that your daughter’s father has neither. That isn’t proper, IMO. At the very least a father should have equal say in how his child is educated and morally instructed.
LikeLike
Welmer
Geez, Sara, I hope you at least give the guy a chance to create a bond with his own daughter. If anything makes a woman a bitch in my eyes, it is estranging a man from his own kids.
As for full custody, you are aware that there are two types of custody: legal and physical. Full custody implies that your daughter’s father has neither. That isn’t proper, IMO. At the very least a father should have equal say in how his child is educated and morally instructed.
So much interest in my divorce! “Of course” I didn’t stand try to PREVENT a connection between my daughter and her father. If this post formed people’s opinion of women one would think they should all be placed on a wolf infested island somewhere. I am a MOTHER maybe not like any others you’ve known? Good grief, I hope not. A mother who loves her child wants her child to receive love from as many sources as possible. Her dad TRIES to have a bond with her, but it’s very difficult now, mainly because of his personality type:
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeOne.asp
LikeLike
Sara —
That’s such a tired old feminist trope Sara. Anytime a man is pissed about any feminist law, or feminist cast to so much popular entertainment, call him bitter. Complete and utter horseshit. I’ve been having a good life my dear, and more than a few hot and otherwise good women. (Some better at the one, others and the other.) My own divorce was a long time ago and it was childless. It did wake me up to the state of divorce law in America today, in part by my learning how much worse it could be in America today esp. with children or a really vindictive, making up stories woman. But that almost sexless marriage, which became so almost immediately after the honeymoon, but was the opposite before including during the period we lived together, was right to end. Not right that she got half for doing very little, but right to end.
But yeah I’m angry about feminist divorce law in America today. Damn straight I am.
So you say Sara, so you say. And we all know that divorced ex wives always tell the complete and balanced truth about their ex husbands, particularly when they’re defending themselves against criticism about their divorce or the money they extracted. Yes we all know that. It’s one of life’s eternal truths.
Under the circumstances of your divorce, where you just decided to leave him because he worked too much and drank too much on weekends (i.e. because you stopped being sexually or romantically attracted to him and knew you could move on under California law with his house and a large percentage of his income from the combo of child support and alimony) — I think the law should be that you got zero of HIS money that he’d saved and invested in the house and securities. Now if I were him I might give you a starter amount since you weren’t (or anyway don’t mention) massively cheating, but I don’t think you should legally be entitled to it.
However, if the law were changed so that it was your 30/70 (30 to the spouse that didn’t earn it, or 1/3 -2/3), that would make a big difference. It would be a significant financial disincentive to wives (in most instances the lower earners) to leave marriages with children for no very good reason. More at least somewhat like the way things used to be.
However I don’t think a cheating spouse should have any claim on the other spouse’s earnings. A cheating husband who’s wife earns 3x what she does and has saved a lot of it should get none of her money if she decides to divorce him — and vice versa.
There’s little that gets mens blood boiling more than an extensively cheating wife walking off with half plus plus of her hard working and fairly or very high earning husband’s money, and then getting support and in California even alimony to boot. Not all states do this for cheating wives, but many now do.
LikeLike
So you say Sara, so you say.
In defense of Sara, there really are such things as bad husbands. One thing that can get really tiresome about this blog’s comment section is the constant assumption that men are always these innocent victims, while women are always up to no good. A welcome corrective to the portrayal of men as abusers and exploiters surely, but not an entirely accurate depiction of reality either.
LikeLike
David Alexander:
It’s one thing to comment about me, but you crossed the line when you stated that my father failed me.
Fuck you.
What if he’s right?
LikeLike
Yes, that’s false advertising. Bait and switch. I have a friend that happened to – but to one up the fucking-cunt factor, she left him for a richer guy after a year.
i know what you mean about being called bitter being used as some smear by the sisterhood. My friend, however, was quite rightfully bitter. He was damned pissed. After that scene, he considered that the soul of a woman was made below.
Give an inch to people. It’s a battle, a constant battle, and only the battle hardened get, and keep, the spoils. The spoils are, a finely trained fair wench.
LikeLike
Don”t give an inch.
If there is anything that having been fucked over, multiple times, has taught me, is that it’s the game itself that is fun. Not the outcome of it. This is the long term benefit. Now. Not some distant retirement. Being fucked over multiple times teaches you how to manage women like dogs. To not take shit, and to create a space of harmony, in which you are in control.
And that if you don’t, it’s better to lose the bitch.
LikeLike
Blowhard jabbered:
*****
I wonder how Strauss was able to devote himself fulltime to mastering Game for a year. That was lots of nights at clubs, lots of travel … I mean, financially, that’s huge.
*****
For a single man… who is a nationally known writer, to have 50,000 or 100,000 in the bank… it is nothing. NOTHING. You could say he had 200,000 dollars in the bank, and I would go that seems low.
Of course, for a nationally known writer to get a book advance, over or under the table, is NOTHING to. It sure paid off, didn’t it?
A whole year of ! With a wife and kids and 100,000 dollar mortgage and shoe sales and a need for a new car… and morons making 26,000 dollars a year manage to survive.
I think 50,000 dollars after tax is more than 50,000 dollars pre-tax, so yeah, he had the money.
LikeLike
Thursday said:
****
In defense of Sara, there really are such things as bad husbands. One thing that can get really tiresome about this blog’s comment section is the constant assumption that men are always these innocent victims, while women are always up to no good. A welcome corrective to the portrayal of men as abusers and exploiters surely, but not an entirely accurate depiction of reality either.
****
It’s possible… but here is the thing. Doesn’t matter, generally, if the guy is a jerk. In a fight between a woman with the whole court system, police, and government on their side against a single man, it really is kind of hard for the man to be the ‘abuser’.
It’s kinda like when a 250 pound cop tazers a 12 year old boys because ‘he started it and is really mean’. Maybe the 12 year old boy was mean, lots of them are. But does anyone take the cop seriously?
Man bites dog story.
Just because someone was wronged doesn’t make them a nice person, but it doesn’t change the facts either.
LikeLike
Dang comment on fire!!!
LikeLike
anonymous
Two household relationships are also good. It’s great if both partners have their own place.
I know what you mean about being an adult, who no one can say is misbehaving, but really you are sidestepping the logic, aren’t you?
IF->misbehaving->then->tossed out.
To which you replied that you coudn’t possibly ever misbehave, because you are an adult, and you make your own rules about what is good behaviour.
And then you flipped that on its head, and said that a man CAN misbehave, and therefore CAN in good conscience be thrown out.
Proving that it doesn’t matter if the spouse thinks she is misbehaving or not. If you don’t like the behaviour, you just might have to kick the spouse out.
Having your own place, and not sharing assets, makes life a hell of a lot better. Sharing assets sucks elephant toes.
LikeLike
Tupac,
Please notice that Dave Alex has not been back w/another retort. Note also his rather uncharacteristic reply to my original assertion that your quote of DA’s alludes to. Compare and contrast.
I think its fair to say that I’ve been at least as outreaching to Dave Alex if not moreso, than most of the good folks here at Roissy’s; attempting to share real concern for another human being. And for my part I did it even while being admonished not to waste my time.
But I must admit, I have come to the end of my rope when it comes to Dave Alex, not the least of which because I know-KNOW-the vast majority of what he says is bullshit. Period. And unlike so many of you, good people in the main, it just will not work with me, because I’m eery bit as Black as Dave Alex is, plus I have something he simply cannot have at the juncture in his life: experience.
So yea, I’m sick and tired of being sick & tired of listening to Dave Alex go on and on and on and on about how he can’t do this, won’t do that, and so on and so forth. In case he’s reading along right now, and since he hasn’t caught on to this on his own, lemme just lay it all out for him:
No one gives a shit about a Man’s problems, especially those who are considered losers of life. You don’t get sympathy or empathy the way Women or children do; instead, you get scorn, even contempt or even hatred. Unfair as that may be, it is life nonetheless-and hence why I said that your father and for that matter, your stepdad too-faied to give you the tools to be a Man in this world and to meet it on its terms. Because a Man understands these things and acts accordingly. By your actions, one must conclude that you know not these things.
In many ways, Dave Alex is the living embodiment of what seriously bedevils Black America, something that T-Raw has hinted at on his blog, but I’m gonna drive the stake even further in the heart-that Black Women have unwittingly raise several generation of Man-Boys. See the film Babyboy for more on this point.
Dave Alex is a Mama’s Boy in almost every way, and how he relates to Women is in that mode. He wants a Woman who will love him regardless of what he does, or doesn’t do. He isn’t made to live up to or meet any standards. He isn’t shamed into doing or being or even acting better. Prima facia evidence of what a profound lack of Paternal Involvement looks like.
It has always been my view that no dad should love his kids, and especially his sons, unconditionally. It is his job to impart to his son the way the world really works. That means that he will have to teach his son what it means to cope with loss, even in the face of doing everything right. That merely showing up ain’t enough. To appreciate the meaning of hard work, the value of a well earned dollar, and to know what it really means to stand on your own two feet. Mothers can and should love their children unconditionally; fathers love their kids by rigorously training them to deal in an often cruel and bitter world.
I’ll hold here. Comment & reply, holla.
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Obsidian
“No one gives a shit about a Man’s problems, especially those who are considered losers of life. You don’t get sympathy or empathy the way Women or children do; instead, you get scorn, even contempt or even hatred. Unfair as that may be, it is life nonetheless-and hence why I said that your father and for that matter, your stepdad too-faied to give you the tools to be a Man in this world and to meet it on its terms.”
When did you meet life on its terms? You don’t have the scars on the soul from a divorce that most do here from trying to meet the world on its terms. You are actually a black stereotype onto yourself. Still playing the game with woman and over 40. Never married. Never tried.
Obsidian
“In many ways, Dave Alex is the living embodiment of what seriously bedevils Black America, something that T-Raw has hinted at on his blog, but I’m gonna drive the stake even further in the heart-that Black Women have unwittingly raise several generation of Man-Boys. See the film Babyboy for more on this point. ”
And so would you be then are you tired of yourself well do what you are trying to get DA to do.
PS He is not your son. You didn’t have one. Or did you out of wedlock?
Obsidian
“No one gives a shit about a Man’s problems”
What do you think is going on. Men see other men getting totally fucked up and they do care about it.
LikeLike
Explat —
Yeah, I noticed the same twisted, emotional, and unjustified double standards logic from that Anonymous that you did but just couldn’t be bothered to point it out to her.
LikeLike
Explat, that management thing works both ways though. I’d say that not taking people’s crap is a good rule of thumb for any decent person.
The thing is, one doesn’t need to dehumanize people to recognize their faults.
The most compassionate thing you can do for someone who wrongs you is to be as natural as possible. This means having a natural reaction to someone attempting to misuse or mistreat you. If it turns out that you are better at the smackdown than they are then that is a good lesson for them. You’ve taught them something valuable. If you stay your hand, you actually do them a disservice by teaching them that life isn’t what it is. You’re lying to them by omission, about the world they live in: a world wherein not everyone is made to be a stupid sucker.
So the times I’ve actually been fucked over have been few and far between, but I gave as good as I got.
…and where my methods fell short, nature filled the gap and then some.
I’d feel some remorse if I didn’t understand they did it to themselves. In a way, you kind of have to depersonalize it all, including your own role and capabilities.
One thing it did take me awhile to figure out though, is that I should not pretend to be harmless or overly steady. I am not actually harmless or perfectly stable, and being too cool was giving people the impression that it was okay to mess with me. I didn’t realize that this was dishonest.
My life and the quality of my relationships has improved dramatically since I took off the emotional straitjacket.
It’s like that Bruce Lee thing…be like the water…
LikeLike
Well, ya. Game theory says that there is advantage to having your opponent perceive you as capable of irrational behaviour.
Humans punish each other, even to their own detriment, in the perfect embodiment of this principle.
Don’t fuck with me. I’ll be cool, I’ll be loving, I’ll be giving, but push me too far, and the boom drops.
Just like parenting, or training a dog. The good dog master knows it’s his responsibility to his dog to do whatever it takes to keep his dog from shitting on the sofa.
For raising kids, I always use the rule of escalation. Soft words. Harsh words. Go to your room. Spank. Spank and early bedtime. Whatever. It’s really up to the kid just how long and how far he wants to push it.
The short of it is ****** BE FEARED ********.
LikeLike
And anonymous’s idea that adults above being treated like dogs is arrogant.
None of us ever grow up. I would hope not.
Actually, some do. They find final truth, and can’t change from then on. Ugh-uugh-uugh-uugh-huuhhhhh. Makes me shudder at the thought of the endless tedium of facing their fixed views.
None of us ever grow up. Life is forever making us look back at our self of ten years ago, and making us say “what the fuck was I thinking”.
LikeLike
Dougie
It’s rarely worth winning the battle over a hill with a woman. She’ll ignore the win, and come back with her own personal war.
But sometimes you’ve just got to point it out. Woman, you are stupid, and don’t deserve to vote. What I say goes.
And I would wish she’d rally more than Osho quotes and her friends opinions to the argument, but she can’t.
The battle? The battle is, stop wanging me, stop talking when I’m disinterested in your conversation, and maybe we can get along. That’s the battle.
LikeLike
I used to think Edith was the protagonist, in All in the Family. Or maybe it was Meathead.
Archie was a stubborn blockhead in need of 200 doses of LSD, but he did thing right.
He ridiculed Edith for talking too much.
LikeLike
If women would take the “this is as good as it gets” attitude about your men ignoring your emotional needs, and men would take the “this is as good as it gets” about your woman fulfilling your intellectual needs, we could all just watch TV together socially. And then fuck.
LikeLike
If women would take the “this is as good as it gets” attitude about your men ignoring your emotional needs, and men would take the “this is as good as it gets” attitude about your woman fulfilling your intellectual needs, we could all just watch TV together socially. And then fuck.
LikeLike
A mother should know that it isn’t proper for a child to receive love from too many sources. Mother, father, family — fine. But this sounds like the “it takes a village” kind of BS that’s so popular with clueless social workers. A kid who doesn’t know who they can count on will never figure out that, quite frankly, you can’t really count on much from very many people.
BTW, this New Age personality type thing is kind of funny. I took the short test and it says I’m either a four or five (weird combo, eh?). Too simplistic if you ask me, even if there probably is a grain of truth to it.
LikeLike
You would so lose a custody dispute in any blue county.
Truth is, it’s grown men who get the spankings in modern America.
LikeLike
Ya, that’s cool. But it brings no weight to your speech. You can be an incorrect mother.
Or are you a Holy Mother?
I’m not sure how you can argue against wide social networks. Especially on the basis of your guilt-by-association “logic”.
Nothing wrong with communal love.
LikeLike
Don’t overdo it, Welmer.
You ideas are correct. Don’t stretch it out into being the major and all encompassing conspiracy.
LikeLike
Dave Alex is the living embodiment of what seriously bedevils Black America
Yeah, a mommy’s boy who works, pays his student loans, wants to finish school, stay out of legal trouble, and marry and then have children is the sign of what’s wrong with Black America.
He isn’t shamed into doing or being or even acting better.
Given that what I report here is simply a fraction of what goes on the real world, I would suspect that it would be best to refrain from magically presuming that my parents don’t have a problem with me or some of my habits. Even the niece and nephew chastise him for being perpetually single. 🙂
Mind you, from an external position, it’s highly likely that real world David’s depression may simply stem from not finishing school on time and could possibly aggravate social phobia that he’s had since childhood. It’s rather likely that he feels that he lacks the credentials to associate with the SWPL/better white people types and may feel ashamed to be around them from such a lowly position. He certainly feels ashamed of meeting old classmates who did better and graduated.
David isn’t blaming others for his failings, and he’s well aware of the stupid stuff he did. Yet admittedly, there’s always that optimistic part that feels if he finishes school, things will hopefully work out in the medium and long-term. Maybe he will find his sweet chubby white girl with nails. 🙂
LikeLike
I’m guessing you’ve never been through it yourself. Well, don’t ever say you weren’t warned.
BTW, I know that most men have to learn the hard way. Sad, but true.
LikeLike
Dave Alex, you act as if you got the lock on doing the basic minimum as a young Black Male in American society; you need to get out more.
Moreover, none of what you’ve said addresses in anyway what I’M SAYING, which is again, that your dad and stepdad have failed to give you the tools to be successful in one of thee most important areas of your life, and that has to do w/love/romance/sex. In this regard it is very clear who prevailed in the home, and it wasn’t Pop. Even the most casual reader of your comments would most likely agree with me.
Your lack of confidence is a blatant badge of the failure of your dad, Dave. And again, this ain’t something unique, sadly. Read The Game sometime. You’ll see it.
At any rate, I’ve managed to make friends in nearly every borough and walk of life, managed to stay out of trouble, be a productive citizen, make a decent dollar while being on my own, and yes, been loved by quite a few Women to boot. But then, I had a Dad in my life who gave a damn, and wouldn’t hesitate to put a foot in my backside if I started f*cking up.
Compare, and contrast.
Stop making excuses, Dave. You’re not a kid anymore. Man Up.
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Gunslinger,
All the bleating in the universe on blogs like these won’t amount to a hill of beans, man. If guys really gave a damn about poor saps who got took for all they were worth in a divorce, they’d be a lot more done about it. Namely at the local, state and federal levels. My point? That most Men are wholly and completely cool with the status quo. Roissy himself has said on numerous occasions that he has no intention whatsoever to do anything about the current state of affairs, even while he recognizes what’s going on.
If Men are really serious about changing divorce laws, it would change. The real deal is that Men are simply not that concerned about what happens to another guy; a Man’s problems are usually seen as something of his own making, right or wrong.
In any event, its of no use to attack the messenger. Your problem ain’t one brotha on a blog dealing with one of his own. Your problem is all of your brothers, who simply don’t give a damn about your problems.
Good luck with that.
O
LikeLike
Obsidian, the reason people don’t give a damn is because they’re not told to. For the most part, folks do as they’re told by the media.
What would be needed to make guys start giving a damn and doing constructive things instead of having panic reactions/fearing women unduly, is an actual campaign. For that, you’ll need to find some old money people who believe that men in general manning up would be a good thing, as in profitable for them.
Feminism overshadowed the real gender egalitarians because egalitarianism didn’t and doesn’t get as much funding.
LikeLike
that your dad and stepdad
I don’t have a step-father.
Oh, btw, he’s in the chorus of people in the “go to a gym lazy ass and go out so you don’t have to write sob stories” camp. Of course, he doesn’t see a need to kick me out of the house for it, but he understands that as an adult, I’m free to make my own decisions.
And to be honest, what was he going to tell me? Here’s the “game” we never used in Haiti? Recount stories about old girlfriends? Say “I love your mom, but I don’t take your mom’s shit, and I only stick around for you guys”?
Your lack of confidence is a blatant badge of the failure of your dad, Dave.
I don’t see how my lack of confidence was magically caused by him. Is he supposed to tell me to exude happiness all the time?
Stop making excuses, Dave.
1) I fucked up school on my own.
2) I couldn’t be bothered to go out in most cases except for work. When I go out, I usually end up forcing myself to go.
3) I’m an attention whore who likes the attention from blog comments.
Better?
LikeLike
That’s why we live in a failing society… If I see you getting your ass kicked by a gang of thugs, might as well just chuckle and say “sucker must have deserved it.”
How thoughtless and primitive. I honestly used to think that men were better than that. Boy, was I was delusional.
LikeLike
Wrong guess, Welmer.
My turn.
I’m guessing you are somewhere in your early thirties.
And that you would prefer a meaningful and deep relationship with someone you can finish sentences with than some bullshit trouble of dealing with a sexy harpie.
Well, that’s the difference between us.
I know about “as good as it gets”, and you know about the truth of the Cinderella story.
LikeLike
Welmer, about your helpful insight that “sucker must have deserved it.” is primitive, let me introduce you to the color grey.
I know, it’s confusing, at first.
Try it out, slowly.
LikeLike
Free to use your parent’s money, without doing their bidding?
LikeLike
Free to use your parents money, without doing their bidding?
LikeLike
Intelligent design overshadowed science in Kansas pre-schools, because science didn’t and doesn’t get as much funding as Oral Idiot.
My metaphor is only to point out that it doesn’t matter who is on who’s side, and how many people believe what.
Is it true. Conscensual reality is not about conscensus, female. It is not about spellling. it is not about agreement. It is about reality.
LikeLike
In other words, both your feminist and real egalitarians don’t have the final answer, and always have to compare their interpretations against new data. The data is the final arbiter, even including the interpreter.
LikeLike
Ya, Mr. Black, that’s the nub of why I don’t want to drop babies into rice fields. It’s kind of a responsibility to be a Dad, isn’t it? I mean, no matter if the neighbours and relative can sort of handle it?
LikeLike
dougjnn
At least in my opinion you and I are worlds apart and too different to make it worth arguing with each other. Sounds to me like too many men here got burned in divorces, or they thought they got burned in divorces, and they don’t take any personal responsibility for their situations. Victims attract victimizers plain and simple. The best way to be rid of victimizers is to stop playing victim. Someone said to me, “The bigger the front the bigger the back”. The biggest cry babies are the one’s who really fucked up and their ego won’t let them face it or learn from it. You have no idea how much shit I could still be crying about.
LikeLike
A few things.
First, Dave Alex, yup, what you just said above *is* better. Now, please drop the bullshit hypotheses. They are irrelevant. The bottomline is simply that YOU are too lazy, spoiled, timid and afraid of doing anything that will actually make a difference in your life insofar as Women are concerned. Now, once you put it out there like that, it is quite possible you’ll continue to get “attention”. Good luck with that.
As for my other comments, again, attempting to throw the messenger off the roof will not change the obvious.
Think about it. Why has “divorce theft” persisted for so long? Why has there been no real response-by Men? Why is it so hard to assemble a male version of a NOW, for example, given the panopoly of problems Men face? At some point, simply droning on about the evil that Women/Feminists do aint gonna cut it, not if you’re really about getting results.
Women are more group oriented than are Men, folks. That’s one reason why they can be so effective insofar as politics are concerned. Men by and large, don’t think that way; we’re much more individualistic, often fiercely so.
You see, this is the reason why I think that the notion of a Beta Male Mutiny is highly *unlikely* to happen, because Males do NOT think in group terms. Notice, right here, how if a Woman’s being bashed, other Women will come to her aid, right or wrong. Roissy himself has mentioned that you’re not likely to see the same thing when it comes to Males, especially if he happens to be Top Dog. Indeed, he stands a good chance of being torn down.
Now of course, I hope im wrong. But I don’t see much evidence-and let’s be clear, I’m talking in real, public policy shifting terms-of any of that happening.
Like I said before, good luck with that.
The Obsidian
LikeLike
@ Secret Lover
How old are you?
Sorry if Roissy’s not helping you on your crusade to make everything politically correct and pleasurable to the eyes. Life isn’t so. It’s dirty, grimey and more disgusting that you’ve probably ever saw and would like to believe.
Last time I checked, we’re in America. You know that place that likes to laud themselves on freedom? That includes the freedom to choose not to do something. This blog isn’t causing you pain. You’re causing you pain. You’re choosing to read it.
If there’s bleach under your kitchen sink, and you drink it as a grown-ass adult, no one will accuse Chlorox of murder (with me so far?). They call that suicide.
Take some damn responsibility for your actions. No one else sure as hell will
Maybe….by about 1% or so. Ignorance of problems that exist do not solve them. Maybe you think it works for your life but it doesn’t. If someone eats McDonald’s 4 times a day for 30 years but doesn’t go to the doctor, that doesn’t make his arteries magically clear up. Sure if Roissy stopped writing people might stop focusing on the negative…for 5 seconds before finding another source that provides similar emotional experiences/intellectual stimulation. It still wouldn’t erase all the ‘scary bad & awful negativity out there polluting people’s minds’.
He’s probably laughing at you right now. Sounds like you’re in a lot more pain than he is.
I loath people like you. You’re defeatist I can’t do anything for myself, people are causing me pain, I’m a victim mentality is responsible for so much of what’s wrong with the world. It’s not Roissy’s writings that need to go away. It’s people like you. Do everyone a favor, change or remove yourself from the country.
As an immigrant business owner that gets taxed at a full 33%, I loathe bloodsuckers of money, energy and resources like you. You’re a drain on the people around you and the economy.
No should change/fix anything at their expense for your personal benefit. That’s a Win/Lose deal where you get everything you want at the expense of others (whether it be your friends, your lovers, or your Government). Is all your life like this? I hope not, but a sizeable portion probably it.
Fix it or shut the fuck up.
@ DA
….wow……just wow….
LikeLike
“on March 8, 2009 at 1:23 am Obsidian
Gunslinger,
All the bleating in the universe on blogs like these won’t amount to a hill of beans, man. If guys really gave a damn about poor saps who got took for all they were worth in a divorce, they’d be a lot more done about it. Namely at the local, state and federal levels. My point? That most Men are wholly and completely cool with the status quo. Roissy himself has said on numerous occasions that he has no intention whatsoever to do anything about the current state of affairs, even while he recognizes what’s going on. ”
Well I am sure that things are being done just maybe not to the right people. Men are killing there wives every day over the divorce shit. This is not being shown on the national news as much as it should if woman were supposed to be protected. where is the oh protect the woman crap? The thing about muslims in middle east is they would be killing and blowing up the judges too so yea change would happen. Just guys killing their wives naa no one really cares quite as much. You start having judges/lawyers dropping like flies. Yea that would make change. No mens movement needed.
LikeLike
Oh yea obsidian are you gonna answer the question? You always ask em. Attack the messenger when the messenger is full of shit.
LikeLike
Gunslinger,
I’m sorry, what question was I supposed to answer again? I mustve missed it. Please restate?
In the meantime though, you can’t dodge what I just said. Let me say it again so that you may address it:
Please point out to me the Men’s group(s) who are making real legal, social, and political headway in the following areas:
Paternity fraud
Divorce theft
Spousal abuse (Woman on Man)
Child Custody laws
Reproductive rights for Men
And so on/so forth.
Now, last time I checked on the latter, Matthew Dubay’s case was laughed outta court.
If you as a Man refuse to pay child or spousal support, you WILL get your ass locked up.
If you go to the cops talkin’ about the beatdown you received at the hands of your Woman, you’ll be clowned 50 ways to next Sunday.
And so on/so forth.
According to most Men on this site and elsewhere, these are huge concerns for many of you, yet NOTHING is being done about them-if anything, just the reverse is happening, ie, even greater penalties are being meted out on Men in these areas.
The question has to be-why?
Well, its my view that one of the reasons why is due to the fact that Men do NOT think in herd mentality terms. Men are much too individualistic to ever form something as a Male version of NOW that will actually stick.
Add to the fact that there are still millions of Men out there who are still thoroughly indoctrinated to believe that Men=Bad, Woman=Good, and you get a better picture as to why things on the aforementioned areas are the way they are, for decades.
The ONLY real thing a Man can do, is be vigilant: don’t get married unless you have ironclad prenups, the Woman makes more than you, and you got solid Game; don’t have lots of babies you know from the jump you can’t afford (and still have solid Game to keep the Baby Mamas in line/love w/you), don’t live under the same roof w/a Woman if you can help it (lowers chances of domestic spats from happening, but you still would need solid Game just in case), and otherwise keep your eyes straight ahead and don’t get caught up over a piece of tail.
As an individual, the above things are real and practical, hence doable. But if you or anyone else here thinks there’s gonna be some great gettin’ up morning where the Betas of the world are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore? Keep dreamin’. Men are far too individualistic AND far too chivalrous to ever organize in the ways needed to legallly, politically and socially reverse things along the lines I’ve indicated, at least on the wide scale. At best, and this is really stretching it, one may be able to get some traction on the local, perhaps state levels.
Simply put, Men don’t care anough about other Men to actually organize enough to fight for improvements in Men’s lives.
But I could be wrong. We’ll see.
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Sara–
Sara you are such a girl head. Most women are to some degree, but you take it to the Nth degree.
There is the issue of living one’s life the best one can under the current rules. I agree with that and have done it. Part of that is continuing or learning to run game in marriage well. Roissy and Dave from Hawaii have offered very good advice on that. There is also making good decisions in view of heavily tilted rules. That is why I concur with Roissy’s advice to not get married, or at the very least get a pre-nup that treats property division and support the way it would happen when just living together.
Part of explaining why that is important is explaining to men how unfair the current divorce law often or usually is to men, at least men who make good money and a lot more of it than their wives.
Sara, lets do a thought experiment. Let’s say feminists succeeded in ratcheting up their divorce extractions even more. Lets say the law was that in the event of divorce, a woman with children get’s 90% of the so called “marital property” (i.e. his money) and 75% of his after tax income until the kids were 18. No make that 21.
Ok Sara, would it THEN be alright with you if I evangelized men on the inadvisability of marrying under that framework of legal oppression of married men? Could I then advocate for changing the law, and women for once acting fairly rather than exclusively in the individual or sisterhood collective self interest?
Or would I still be bitter, and whining?
Rather than agitating for justice — like you know the feminists said they were doing when they pushed through the laws men now suffer under, under the “deadbeat dads” feminist media campaign in the early 90’s. Funny how you didn’t say they were bitter or whining.
LikeLike
Obsidian
There is something men can do about it. They can leave. People with money are choosing with there wallets.
LikeLike
Obsidian —
Complete bullsh*t Obsidian. Which is not uncommon.
Roissy has said no such thing with respect to divorce law. He has said he’s aware that the current feminist programming of most men ends up being very advantageous to players like him. And that while he sees the injustice of that for beta men, he’s still gonna be taking full advantage.
However, in some ways this blog is an effort to teach those teachable betas (mostly higher betas I think) what’s what and how to get one the game, or do their natural game better and stop defeating it with feminist programed suck up to women pussy moves.
Else Obsedian, give me a quote and a blog date to check it.
The fact is the divorce laws effect all men. They certainly effect any man who might want to have a biological child or two. Game, learned and natural, can help but it can’t come close to ensuring that an alpha won’t become subject to divorce theft. Particularly if he wants to go on being alpha by playing a bit on the side after awhile.
LikeLike
Obsidian —
Yes. This is central and must change. In Jewish controlled Hollywood. For starters the PC taboos against talking about it could be challenged and broken.
In fact it’s one of the themes of this blog that women doesn’t equal good, but rather selfish and amoral and emotionally driven. All of which can be pleasurable. But which are rarely self sacrificing — for society in general, especially men in general, or even often for their own man. Their own baby or child is another matter.
LikeLike
Hi Doug,
I really don’t see where we’re supposedly disagreeing here; we both acknowledge the fact that Roissy knows the deal, but won’t lift a finger to change it mainly because it nets him serious poon. OK, so now what?
All im saying is that the idea of an organized group of Men coming together to “take back” the ball from the Feminists is at best a longshot and at worst a cruel joke. I’ve said that Men by and large do not see themselves as a group, like Women do. Am I correct or not in that assessment, Doug?
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Doug, Gunslinger,
I notice neither of you have directly answered my major question/premise: that Men are too individualistic to organize on a par comparable to a NOW in order to make broad-based changes in the areas of divorce law, child custody law, paternity fraud and so on. I am saying that by and large, Men simply do not care enough about the misfortunes of other Men to rally around such issues. Therefore, the only practical way a Man can protect himself, is to make use of certain measures and tactics that can help him individually. That’s really about it, insofar as I can tell.
Now-is my premise accurate or not, and why, please?
Also, Doug, you mentioned “Jewish controlled Hollywood” in your response to my previous comments. I’m curious to know why you would bring such a thing up. Surely, Jewish Men are in the same boat as you or me when it comes to things such as child custody disputes, paternity fraud or divorce settlements/laws being heavily tilted in Womens’ favor, yes?
Comments?
O
LikeLike
we both acknowledge the fact that Roissy knows the deal, but won’t lift a finger to change it mainly because it nets him serious poon.
We have no idea what Roissy does in real life other than the fact that he runs a very popular blog with no profit to himself on which these problems are discussed by smart and interesting men, Game is promoted, and leftist/feminist “pretty lies” are exposed.
What else is he supposed to be doing?
LikeLike
Gunslingergregi
Obsidian
“No one gives a shit about a Man’s problems, especially those who are considered losers of life. You don’t get sympathy or empathy the way Women or children do; instead, you get scorn, even contempt or even hatred. Unfair as that may be, it is life nonetheless-and hence why I said that your father and for that matter, your stepdad too-faied to give you the tools to be a Man in this world and to meet it on its terms.”
When did you meet life on its terms? You don’t have the scars on the soul from a divorce that most do here from trying to meet the world on its terms. You are actually a black stereotype onto yourself. Still playing the game with woman and over 40. Never married. Never tried.
So when did you attempt to have a family and not be a black male sterotype?
LikeLike
Obsidian,
“All im saying is that the idea of an organized group of Men coming together to “take back” the ball from the Feminists is at best a longshot and at worst a cruel joke.”
Look to the arabic countries for how a group of men organize and take back the ball.
Look at New Orleans groups of men suddenly became all powerful.
Imagine a countrywide calamity and what that will look like.
I don’t want to be there. Lot of bottled hate that will be let go.
LikeLike
“When did you meet life on its terms? You don’t have the scars on the soul from a divorce that most do here from trying to meet the world on its terms. You are actually a black stereotype onto yourself. Still playing the game with woman and over 40. Never married. Never tried.
So when did you attempt to have a family and not be a black male sterotype?”
What does this have to do with what he’s saying? Living his life trying to avoid being a black male stereotype is equal to meeting the world on its terms? Maybe he, as an individual, just doesn’t want to get married and he’s being true to himself. By not getting married simply because societal pressures tell him he should, isn’t he actually closer in spirit to Roissy’s message than any of you?
LikeLike
“As an individual, the above things are real and practical, hence doable. But if you or anyone else here thinks there’s gonna be some great gettin’ up morning where the Betas of the world are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore? Keep dreamin’. Men are far too individualistic AND far too chivalrous to ever organize in the ways needed to legallly, politically and socially reverse things along the lines ”
Yea mass quantities of men can suddenly reach a breaking point of course they can. Once another calamity hits that causes them to need to band together. World Wars, Revolutions, Rebellions, Men. You don’t think that if the stock market really crashed and all these men had nothing after working all this time in their 401k’s/IRA’s that maybe there wouldn’t be some retribution going on. They would then have nothing left to lose but there llife and that would maybe seem like not so bad a thing.
Do you really think the us is so far away from hacking each other to pieces with machetes like in Zimbabwe?
LikeLike
Obsidian–
I’d say this blog is doing a whole lot more than lifting a finger to change things.
First of all, by offering up explanations to the skeptical as to why game works and why it’s so essential, for all but a small minority of men who come by it naturally, and then teaching some of it.
Second of all by ripping the scale off men’s eyes that, as you said, women=good, men=bad. He does a whole lot of deprograming of feminist theory and dogma infact. Pretty much soup to nuts.
Surely these are first steps.
A lot of why there hasn’t been a men’s movement is that men are just beginning to realize how tilted divorce law is against men. It’s certainly almost completely blacked out on TV and in the movies. Where men are shown as coming out as big losers in divorce, they’re shown as being totally ineffectual and inept and hence that it’s really all or anyway a whole lot their fault, not only that they were divorced, but that they were so financially raped. That’s essentially the take on Two and A Half Men for example. But even showing the financial raping at all is highly unusual.
Would men rather lead a cause the saves women, than that cuts back on some of their overreaching laws? Yes. That’s certainly part of what makes it difficult. But it’s not insurmountable I don’t think. It hasn’t really been tried yet.
If you say it’s insurmountable, is there no degree of statutory divorce rape that men wouldn’t rebel against.
What get’s the most traction is the idea that a woman can flagrantly cheat and still walk off with half plus plus of her husbands money, plus full child support=alimony. What that means is that a man who makes money has essential NO cudgel over the head of a wife tempted by cheating — while a woman has an enormous one taking half his saved money, 40% after tax of his ongoing earnings, and his kids with full ability to completely alienate their affection. Under current no fault feminist law (or it’s always the man’s fault is more how it’s economically treated) a man’s cudgel is divorce with the same devestating financial and kid loss impact upon him.
LikeLike
T-Raw, thanks, man. I deeply appreciate it.
I never held myself out to be some grand example of anything, but now since some of the fellas want to make it personal, I guess in a way I do kinda come closer to what Roissy speaks of than most here. Like most Men, I too wanted to be married, but had a very tough time reconciling the serious downside for Men in our time. And I simply agreed w/Roissy’s oft-stated premise, that I can pretty much get all that I want from a Woman w/o going the ring-route. I’d prefer it to be different but that’s not the reality in which I live.
As for my actual points, Doug, c’mon, this thing is hardly new. Divorce along the lines we’ve been discussing have been in place for at least a generation, since the early 80s. And still, there has been NO groundswell of support enmasse, for Men by Men to help Men. None. The paltry few nascent Men’s groups can’t even get themselves together to address these things, let alone redress them.
Please don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the things you and others have discussed. But from a real and practicial stand point, I do not see any major moves on the horizon that will address any of that.
Now, if you or someone else does, I’m all ears.
The Obsidian
LikeLike
dougjnn
Ok Sara, would it THEN be alright with you if I evangelized men on the inadvisability of marrying under that framework of legal oppression of married men? Could I then advocate for changing the law, and women for once acting fairly rather than exclusively in the individual or sisterhood collective self interest?
If you want to lobby for men’s rights, go for it. Politics is not my thing. It WAS years ago. I was a big time promoter of the Green Party. Ralph Nader was a family hero and I have no problem admitting I worked on his behalf. I wouldn’t do it again as my views on life in general have changed significantly.
The thing I find fairly appalling in your worldview is you apparently put ZERO value on a woman’s contribution to a marriage where raising children are involved. If you study family law, it seems to be that the child is put first over the man’s need to value his MONETARY contribution. Especially in the case where the wife is not “working” which is a complete insult to any mother who works harder than she will ever work in her life raising a child. How stupid can YOU be? There’s no end to it apparently. Hence my feeling that our little disagreement is 100% futile.
In Sweden or Denmark I think women get paid to stay home and raise their OWN children. Whereas here a woman is expected (by YOU) to get back in the workplace after being a stay-at-home mom for years and immediately make enough money to pay for day care and work full time and survive to any standard above poverty. I already told you and others to the point of boredom that I think the alimony given is too much in most cases where it was a long term marriage especially as in my case. What do you want then? Blood? LOL Not getting it here, honey.
You seem much more interested in punishing any woman who files for divorce for any reason and the child with her, because that’s just the kind of man you are.
LikeLike
obsidian,
“I never held myself out to be some grand example of anything”
You can’t hide behind your blackness now that you came out with the reason why da should man up/quite posting is because he was a black stereotype and his dad failed him per your words. Letting him know he should be following your example of what a black man should be doing. You always let people know from your black perspective. Always showing your black and can get white woman. What is your excuse for being a black sterotype over 40 years old?
And
How did your father fail you?
LikeLike
You wanted to prey on the weak to look strong but now you have been shown that you too are the weak. What Da doesn’t understand yet is that it’s not just him who suffers on this planet or just the losers you know. No matter player, person who ops out, woman, man,Alpha,Beta whatever this world is a shithole and there is really no reason for any intelligent person to stay everyone is weak in some way. Everyone has something that is fucked up or things that they fear. Thing is it worth it to stay probably not, but if you have to stay try to make the best of it I suppose.
LikeLike
Gunslinger, when you’re done w/the ridiculous ad homs, then maybe, just maybe, we can have an actual discussion on the issues.
Holla when you’re ready.
O
LikeLike
You expecteded an answer from DA He answered.
I expect an answer from you. Obviously DA is the strong you are the weak. You can’t answer your own questions to someone else because to much trauma to face it. Face it like you expected da to.
DA manned up to being born with a small dick and still you try to attack the man for not wanting to get with woman like you do or maybe having a wierd outlook on things or trying to come up with some reasons for his existance. He has a disability what is your excuse.
LikeLike
@ Welmer
Sorry I didn’t see your reply. I was too busy having sex.
“If you’re cooking, cleaning and raising a bunch of kids there’s no way in hell you’ll maintain a score of 45 on that test.”
Please, don’t allow the slovenly bitches with whom YOU associate with to cloud your mind to the degree that you forget that other, beautiful women exist. I’ll be 28 this year and they still card me for cigarettes. To address your point, I have excellent genes and a good example: my mother is approaching 60, looks better than most 30 y.o. women, and can still get quality guys in their 30’s. Of course, she doesn’t want them, but they’re there for the taking.
“You said you’d take the vow but you qualified it saying you expect him to support you.”
No, what I said was that I’d play my position if he played his. To repeat some of what OMW was saying, if you want to ‘play’ patriarch, then you need to be prepared to deal with the responsibilities. If you want a woman at home cooking and cleaning for you, staying fly, and raising your kids, then it’s your job to go get the food. In modern times, that means a job. If you want to fuck with no permanent arrangement, and no resulting children, that’s whole different ballgame.
He and I considered all options, negotiated terms, and made an agreement.
“If you haven’t had kids you have no idea what difficulty really means. ”
Bullshit.
“Looks like you’re already setting the guy up. ”
You know next to nothing about me, yet purport to know the inner workings of my mind. Let me share something with you: when guys offer me shit, I let them down gently, tell them why, go home, and tell the bf. We laugh heartily, and then I suck his dick til nothing’s left. You know why?
Because he knows me, and he knows I’m not for sale to the highest bidder.
LikeLike
Oh, I’m sorry gunslinger, I missed your question: what was it?
O
LikeLike
And you’re a smoker, too…
Wait and see what happens when you get pregnant and have to quit smoking immediately. You’ll be eating as much as a college rower, or else you will frequently fly into rages (it’s already obvious you have a temper) and have fits of depression. I’m sure your hubby will have a grand old time.
What is a woman’s position these days? If you really, really wanted men to ‘play patriarch’, then you’d put up with lower wages and job discrimination. As it is, a man has no advantages in the workplace. The last generation where men really did make a lot more than women (in general — not in the few exceptions of billionaires), is already well past childbearing age. These days, your typical young father can’t hack ‘patriarch’, because there aren’t enough of those jobs to go around.
I’ll bet it will be a whole lot of food when you get pregnant. Poor guy…
Don’t worry — you won’t be preoccupied with that very often after a couple years of marriage.
LikeLike
Just wanted to help DA not be abused. He has been on here for a long time trying to work through it. You have just come on. Hopefully he read for comprehension. I think it is probably ok now. One thing to f with someone another to try to get them to quit.
LikeLike
@ Welmer
You’re hilarious. First, I’m a gold-digger. Now, I’m a smoking harpy who’s on her way to Fattyville. FYI, I don’t have a temper. I’m actually quite a lady, and people who’ve known me all my life would never guess half the shit I tell you guys. However, if/when people get out of line, they get smacked back into place. I make no excuses for it, and the bf is well-aware. In fact, it turns him on, since I’m also quite the sub. 😉
“What is a woman’s position these days? If you really, really wanted men to ‘play patriarch’, then you’d put up with lower wages …”
Where have you been? Women DO put up with lower wages…
“These days, your typical young father can’t hack ‘patriarch’, because there aren’t enough of those jobs to go around. ”
Awww, Welmer, so that’s it! You’re upset with me because, in your mind, I’m one of those women you can’t afford. Don’t beat yourself up about it, honey. Stay hopeful… you never know, you might find a 6 or a 7 who doesn’t expect much.
LikeLike
OK. So, gunslinger…is what I said wrt Men above accurate, or not?
O
LikeLike
Sara —
What utter unadulterated rubbish. I put great value in it, while she’s still married and performing full wifely duties, which includes good and at least fairly frequent sex with her husband, but also and very importantly child raising ones. For this she should and virtually always does in America share fully in her husband’s income. I’d certainly look askance at any husband that spent a lot more, year after on himself or joint activities he favored than on his wife and one’s she did. Though I’d also smell trouble if it were too far in her direction as well. A good sharing my dear.
What you’re equating as per American feminist media indoctrination for half a century, is sharing while married, with having to give her an enormous severance package when she decides to end the marriage, especially if its for no good reason or because she’s been massively cheating and either fallen in love with someone else, or anyway out of love romantic and sexual love with her husband. Until quite recently in most states a woman who wished a divorce for no very compelling reason, e.g. the reasons you gave for your own divorce, would walk away with very, very little. If she were a cheating wife she walk away with about zero, and maybe not the kids.
Yeah that’s the feminist excuse, the Trojan horse, for their high child support=alimony extractions, and as well for the fifty split of the husband’s savings and investment profits. Funny how they make sure that the child is nearly always placed with the mother, and becomes a source of income for her (it the kid goes with the dad, how often is child support extracted by the state? Almost never.) Funny how those same (they almost always are the same) leftists don’t consider money so crucial important for a child’s welfare when considering whether foster parents be allowed to continue their parental relationship and versus returning the child to a drug or alcohol abusing natural mother who’s supposedly cleaned up her act. Nope, the money thing is only of great relevance when it needs to be extracted from the bio dad. In fact I don’t think it’s that important, as I’ve said in another comment thread a few weeks ago, to some agreement. Parental money is however often (but hardly always) correlated with things that are important, such as parental values, education and intelligence.
Besides the dad can and should decide to help support his kids and I would. But it would be directly for the most part rather than through the mom, and involve my decisions, and my influence.
Strange then isn’t how so many American mothers do work outside the home, especially when their kids are no longer infants, but sometimes even when they are, with either grandparent help, or child care if the mother/family earns enough. I wouldn’t ask or really even want my wife to be a completely stay at home mom, esp. once the kids are going to pre-school and school. Part time or light full time is much more what I’d want. But no I won’t try to force it. Or feel I should be responsible for her decisions if she did decide to stay at home full time even once the kids were in school, and then decided to divorce me.
As well my mother didn’t work, at least for money, while I was growing up. Since my youngest brother (of three) was six years younger than myself I got to see her raising him from very young. Your descriptions of how hard it was and how many hours it took, even at the beginning but especially after a couple of years and especially once my youngest brother was in school are WILDLY exaggerated. In fact my mother got a heavy part time series of volunteer work jobs to fill at least some of her free time. At certain periods she also watched a whole lot of TV and read a whole lot of books. And did a whole lot of unnecessary shopping, and daytime socializing.
See above. I wouldn’t have asked her to interrupt her career completely for an extended period of time. Even if I did she could certainly say no, under the law and more importantly under all mainstream American social mores at the moment, and continue to work at least part time whether I liked it or not. Now if she decides otherwise, or never had much of a career to begin with, that’s on her not me. Sure I decided to marry her, but she decided to divorce me. In the set of situations we’re talking about.
There, there Sara.
I don’t want to punish women who divorce for no utterly compelling reason exactly Sara, but I do want to strongly disincentivize them. Instead the current system is the reverse. Further Sara, I don’t want to let women have affairs and even full blown love affairs and have the husbands only recourse to divorce her and give considerably more than half his money when it’s all in. That’s obscene Sara.
But Sara, as I indicated before, if we’re talking about state by state or model state divorce law reform, I’d compromise and give women divorcing for no compelling reason something out of the her husband’s money (called marital property), but considerably less than half. Say 1/3 up to some fairly high number for most people, perhaps her getting 250k that way, then ¼ up to another, say 500k, then 1/6 up to five mill., then that’s it. Of course she could bargain for more in a prenup. I’d make this the standard in most divorces for what the lesser earning spouse gets out of the other’s money, with exceptions for egregious cases, where she’d get the fifty fifty split.
LikeLike
There you go again. It’s obvious where you’re coming from, Chloe.
Chloe thinks:
“I’m worth a whole lotta money!”
Guys who know better think:
“She’s gonna cost a lot of money!”
BTW, Chloe, I’d be OK with a 6 or 7 who doesn’t expect much. If she’s got a good build and could birth strong kids that’s enough (my kids got their good looks from me, but it helped them to also have an athletic mother with a good physique, even if she isn’t the brightest bulb). The problem is, you put a ring on a woman’s finger and all of the sudden she expects the world.
The thing guys who’ve been around know about truly beautiful women is that you can’t really keep them. Perhaps it’s possible in some rare cases, but in general women with infamous beauty have overwhelming power due to their sexual allure, so they can get away with murder — literally. This being the case, it’s pretty much a given that most of them will cheat. Women like that are as alpha as Donald Trump.
I was a pretty boy when I was younger, and plenty of beautiful women gave themselves over to enjoyment with me — I never even had to try, but it was all fun and games and personal conquest for them. Because I am an idealist, I tried to rebel against it and live the plain and simple life, but alas it never worked.
If the simple life works for you, Chloe, that’s fine, but I know that the ambition of women exponentially exceeds that of men, and your need to preen and morally distinguish yourself is a red flag. You have no humility, which bodes ill for a happy marriage. You boast about being pursued by wealthy men, your skill at fellatio, and your ultimate ability to have multiple children and maintain a flawless physique. Whether or not someone like me believes this braggadocio is really beside the point — the very fact that you portray yourself in this manner is something you ought to think hard about before getting involved in marriage.
Marriage is about swallowing your own pride for the good of the family. I don’t think you can do that at this point. If I spoke with your boyfriend, I would advise him to avoid marrying a woman with such an innate sense of superiority and entitlement. Not only is he bound to eventually be disappointed, but you will never forgive him for not holding you up on the Olympian pedestal upon which you obviously feel you deserve to be placed.
LikeLike
“throws a trout at obsid’s head” dam my bad lol
LikeLike
Chloe–
I for one like you quite a bit. You obviously really love your live together bf, and have been loyal to him through ups and downs over eight years, while being in your prime. That’s pretty damn loyal.
You seem to me to be a relatively very safe bet for him to marry, and hot to boot.
LikeLike
Jesu Christo.
525 comments!!! And counting.
All time comment leader on Roissy’s blog, I do believe.
Is this the all time comment # leader on any daily (week daily) blog?
Might well be.
I sure as hell haven’t seen higher elsewhere, or actually, nearly AS high.
LikeLike
Chloe —
I also think Welmer is nut to thing there’s something wrong with your knowing your sexual market value is high. Yes, it’s a bit unusual for a girl to just out and out say so, esp. among a bunch of guys who aren’t all eating from her fingers, but wtf.
The point is you’ve been loyal through your highest value years, before kids or marriage. That’s huge.
So yeah, you’re great.
(I’m not saying Welmer hasn’t had any points in your exchanges. Just talking about the big picture.)
LikeLike
These last six years have been as good as it gets for me. Lots of variation, learning new things, ups and downs, many girls, a few serious love affairs. One year of live-in monogamy, another two years of live-in monogamy, a few years of non-monogamy with 2 or 3 serious and often changing girlfriends, with never a night or morning alone, and rarely a morning with the same girl as the night. Some women who gave entirely too much drama (which is dramatic, and better than boredom). I like the drama as much as the peace.
That’s as good as it gets for me. I don’t know what is next. Some suspense.
LikeLike
How the hell do you know it’s high, doug? Did she post a photo?
It isn’t just unusual at all, but it’s downright indecent. Especially from a girl who’s supposedly committed.
Again, doug, how the hell do you know that? She’s posting on a PUA blog fer chrissake! And she’s got a boyfriend!
What does that say?
Get real, people.
LikeLike
Speaking of liking the drama as much as the peace, when one girl would visit while I was already occupied, I never hid the grin on my face. It was hillarious to watch them go at each other. Some of the best times of my life. Man, that’s living.
I don’t know how many times that happened – three of four. I’d not remove any of those times from my life.
Forgetting to lock the door, and having to hide one girl under your chest while the other glares from the foot of the bed? That’s living. Even the slap on the face in the hallway. Being alive. Even all the fights.
I also like lying in bed, listening to the sound of fan. It almost sounds holy. I’m not sure if i can explain that. Like the sound of falling rain. Just that it is there at all, is a mystery, and comfort.
As good as it gets for me is the carrot juice my girlfriend handed me. The offer for a blowjob I get every morning, just because it’s morning.
The fact that I’m doing fine financially just now, in troubled times. And more than that, the fact that last year I sometimes had to use my coin money to buy the days vodka.
That’s living, for me. When my life flashes by, it will a full, rich, life.
LikeLike
Sounds more than vaguely familiar. I used to be an expat, too. I sympathize with the drama factor. Boring girls are depressing.
However, for now I need the peace. I could spend a year at a monastery and I think it would do me some good. I did get offered a job at a monastery in Gansu at one point. Maybe I should have taken it. Maybe I should go back — I just don’t know.
I’m not a big fan of Tibetan cuisine, but then again I loved the wide skies and the crystal streams, and riding horses over Himalayan meadows is something worth doing at least once in life.
LikeLike
Reminds me of Kowloon.
That’s really a beautiful thought. Gives me hope.
LikeLike
Yes, I think monastic life and long periods of solitude in the wild are a must have chapter for any life well lived.
LikeLike
Great comment by Welmer.
LikeLike
Off topic, but I just wanted to say Watchmen is a badass movie.
LikeLike
That movie is pretty badass. Talk about lessons in human nature minus the sugar coating
LikeLike
@ Welmer
“It’s obvious where you’re coming from, Chloe. ”
I’m coming from the perspective of, ‘Don’t hate the player, hate the game.’ Where are you coming from?
“Guys who know better think:
“She’s gonna cost a lot of money!””
That is SO funny, because my bf thinks the exact opposite! I am so frugal, you would laugh if you knew me. That just goes to show you how little you actually know people on the internet.
“The problem is, you put a ring on a woman’s finger and all of the sudden she expects the world. ”
I absolutely don’t “expect the world.” I expect heat, hot water, food, and some good dick. I don’t ask for much.
“Perhaps it’s possible in some rare cases, but in general women with infamous beauty have overwhelming power due to their sexual allure, so they can get away with murder”
Well, there you have me wrong. I’m not an “infamous beauty,” thank God. I’m a cute girl who’s been blessed with good genes, a good body and an excellent education. I’m also black, and quite proud of it, to the chagrin of my admirers (if they’re black, they wonder where I’m from; if they’re ‘brown’ they assume I’m whatever they are- Dominican, Indian, whatever; if they’re white, they find me ‘interesting’) I know my market, and I handle(d) it nicely.
“your need to preen and morally distinguish yourself is a red flag. You have no humility, which bodes ill for a happy marriage.”
Again, you don’t know me. If my comments appear self-aggrandizing, I didn’t mean it to be so. The point of this website is to be utterly frank, and I appreciate the atmosphere. I appreciate the opportunity to gloat over my past conquests in my ‘old, married’ days, and, perhaps, to share the wisdom I’ve gleaned. If I can help guys like poor old David Alexander find happiness, I’m happy.
“Did she post a photo? ”
No, and I will not. I don’t walk down the street half-dressed, and I won’t be a ‘girl on the internet.’ My ‘goodies’ are exclusive, lol, which, I think, is part of the reason I’m so attractive to men. Really, cuz I don’t think I’m THAT cute. 🙂
“She’s posting on a PUA blog fer chrissake! And she’s got a boyfriend!
What does that say?”
I’m not sure how familiar you are with black culture, but let me share something with you. Somebody on this blog once inquired as to why there were no white women on this blog. That made me wonder why I found this blog so amusing. When I thought about it, I realized that black women MAY have a greater appreciation for Game, because black guys practice it almost from birth. It’s literally like a game between the sexes. My first “real” bf was a natural, and I loved it. My game vs his, it made for great sex. My current bf has just enough natural ability to keep me in check, which is good, because it was one of my main qualifiers for a long-term commitment.
Does that explain why I’m here? 😉
To wrap things up, Welmer, I want to explain why I took so much time answering your generally tedious questions: because other people are reading. I want it to be clear that all women aren’t skanks. There are quality girls out there, so don’t get discouraged, guys.
@ dougjnn
“I for one like you quite a bit. You obviously really love your live together bf, and have been loyal to him through ups and downs over eight years, while being in your prime. That’s pretty damn loyal.”
Thank you, sweetie. It doesn’t seem like much, but I’m glad a random person on the internet thinks I’m a good girlfriend. I try my best.
“Yes, it’s a bit unusual for a girl to just out and out say so, esp. among a bunch of guys who aren’t all eating from her fingers, but wtf.”
Well, like I said, I lurked for a while. I figured I would have a better go of things if I just stated what kind of girl I was up front. That’s my personality, for example, I said somewhere on this blog that I didn’t get the point of The Rules, if you want him, go get him, lol.
LikeLike
Two household relationships are also good. It’s great if both partners have their own place.
When I was little I thought it would be cool to have two houses next door to each other. Of course I also thought a convertible VW Bug with a Rolls Royce front was the coolest car on the planet…. 😀
I know what you mean about being an adult, who no one can say is misbehaving, but really you are sidestepping the logic, aren’t you?
IF->misbehaving->then->tossed out.
No, I’m not sidestepping the logic. Misbehaviour presumes one party is acting as an authority: I am my own authority, as would be my partner. If he presumed to take me to task as one would a child, that’s not misbehavior; that’s indicative of a much more fundamental problem with how we view each other.
To which you replied that you coudn’t possibly ever misbehave, because you are an adult, and you make your own rules about what is good behaviour.
I behave as a rational adult. I’ve had the requisite two parents and am not in the market for another. Certainly not from the person with whom I choose to share my life.
And then you flipped that on its head, and said that a man CAN misbehave, and therefore CAN in good conscience be thrown out.
Proving that it doesn’t matter if the spouse thinks she is misbehaving or not. If you don’t like the behaviour, you just might have to kick the spouse out.
Ah, no. Merely “not liking the behavior” is not just cause for such an extreme reaction. But my mate in life attempting to discipline me as though I’m a child? Jettisoning him from the house is merely geography. More importantly, the relationship is ended at that point.
Having your own place, and not sharing assets, makes life a hell of a lot better. Sharing assets sucks elephant toes.
I’d be happy to share the *space*, but am much more reluctant to merge finances. For practical reasons in the case of an eventual separation, but also for less-immediately-tangible ones during the relationship: if one party holds all the financial cards, it’s too likely they’ll assume they get to call all the shots in the relationship. I think it’s healthier for both parties if they both largely retain their autonomy.
If Men are really serious about changing divorce laws, it would change. The real deal is that Men are simply not that concerned about what happens to another guy; a Man’s problems are usually seen as something of his own making, right or wrong.
I’ve often wondered about how so many here blame Teh Evil Feminists for controlling everything, but seriously, how realistic is that? How is that possible when the vast majority of lawmakers and business-owners are…men?
Not that the batshit-crazy fringe-dwellers of radical feminism deserve any defense, nor am I giving it to them, but really, I’m a feminist woman (moderate, not batshit-crazy,) and if there’s some kind of secret society, it’s sure nothing you gain access to simply by being born with ovaries.
If indeed Teh Feminists are controlling society, how the hell did all you Alphas let it happen?? Enquiring minds want to know!
If you earned your own home rather than winning it in a feminist divorce law settlement, then good for you, and no I don’t resent that at all.
I’d never step up to defend a woman who scammed her home out of a guy. And while I may never marry, if I do so it will be only after serious contemplation on both our parts, because never getting married would be preferable to ever getting divorced. And if it’s any consolation, if I *did* marry and have to divorce, I would never take anything I didn’t actively contribute to, no matter what the law says. (Of course I’d never get into a relationship with significant earning disparity, so neither party would be in danger of being fleeced by the other, but still….)
Some feminists are genuinely interested in what’s fair for men as well as women. I know you guys don’t believe it, but we’re out here, and we’re not your enemies.
LikeLike
dougjnn
What utter unadulterated rubbish. I put great value in it, while she’s still married and performing full wifely duties,
Duties? I stopped reading there. You’re a neanderthal or as normal as they come by today’s standards. Sex as duty or anything as “duty” is ugly. You must be an enneagram type six. It’s the only thing I can figure out here.
Look at this little appalling Osho video and maybe then we can stop arguing. The gulf between us is incredible and it’s ridiculous to try to bridge it with any blog ramblings or stupid diatribes. Please hate it so I can get on with my life….*smile*
LikeLike
Explat
And I would wish she’d rally more than Osho quotes and her friends opinions to the argument, but she can’t.
This one is REALLY good, though!
Osho on being in love. Classic for those who are on the leading edge of thought. Please hate it so I can get on with my…….
LikeLike
Sara —
Of course a wife has duties in a marriage, you absurd dogmatist of your dogma of the moment, currently the transcendent Osho. Just as a husband has duties.
Idiot.
LikeLike
Sara —
And my dear Sara, as between being a Neanderthal and a feminist approved man, or for that matter New Age approved, I’ll take someone you think Neanderthal, thanks. It’s worked very well for me.
LikeLike
dougjnn
I’ll take someone you think Neanderthal, thanks. It’s worked very well for me.
And I’ll take being an idiot in your eyes. It works for me.
LikeLike
If it were really good, then you would have internalized it, and could use your own words, rather than needing to quote.
I don’t read quotes from people who require quotes to make their point.
LikeLike
Hmmm!
http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/47529/angelina-jolie-slaps-brad-pitt-for-massaging-the-nanny
LikeLike
[…] Published July 3, 2009 Feminismus Leave a Comment Men can do well without marriage: “What women don’t seem to understand is that men could well do without the institution of […]
LikeLike
I agree that Clooney, even to this day, is playing the game right… he Gets It.. and when I hear him speak I think he’s a pretty bright dude in all respects.
LikeLike