I was sent a link to this collegehumor.com video (hat tip: “godless capitalist”):
It’s pretty funny, but the bad game demonstrated here isn’t all that exaggerated. We’ve all seen guys do this in clubs. (What’s going through the girls’ heads is probably a bit harsher in reality. Something along the lines of “Loser! ACK, another loser! LOSER! omg, loser again!”)
Beta behaviors illustrated:
Goofy smiling.
Unsolicited hugs.
Bad voice tone.
Maniacal laughing every time girl speaks.
Staring.
Drink buying.
Island buying.
Professions of love.
The fat chick coming out of the loo was a nice touch.
haha… no doubt. the ultimate display of why you need to neg hot bitches. note her insecurities…
LikeLike
Funny stuff……..nobody in the video had any confidence or presented any challenge at all.
Funny grocery store pick-up line (heard on the radio, and thought I’d share it——would never work, but is still funny)…….
Him: Hey, I see you have a stick of butter in your shopping cart! What a coincidence, I just happen to have a DVD copy of “The Last Tango in Paris” back at my place : )
LikeLike
island buying… -my fav!
(as you could probably guess) -the love professing is my least favorite… most painful and uncomfortable beta behavior to be subject to.
-i don’t mind the drink buying… especially if they send it with the bartender… and i don’t have to talk to them, (unless for some reason i chose to walk up to them myself). -keep the drinks coming i say! 🙂
LikeLike
omg… that island buying was great…. i can have this man killed…. epic….
LikeLike
My favorite: ” How is that even possible? We’re such good *frieends*.” The word “friends” makes him want to die.
LikeLike
Everybody bustin into the women’s bathroom. Hilarious.
LikeLike
As an omega with absolutely no chance at ever drawing the birds I am attracted to, I’ve learned my own game. Grasshoppers, take it from the master. You too can have the hottest women if you’re just patient. Folks, I give you…
“The Prof, his Wife, the Dork, the Stud & his Squeeze (or…one reason I didn’t go to Yale.)
The Dork was taken to see the movie The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover (hereafter, “The Cook”) in an art theatre over Christmas break in 1994 by a close friend. He then recommended the movie to his Sedimentary Petrology professor – the Prof – who the Dork was a teaching assistant for at the time – and the Prof went and saw it with his wife – the Wife – who was also a professor (in biology) and who stormed out enraged sometime during the film. The Prof refused to leave, as he loved the film, and had to take a cab home. Within six months, the Wife had left him.
The Prof jokingly would thereafter tell the Dork that the Dork (and The Cook) had caused the breakup of the Prof’s marriage, with a self-deprecating chuckle in his voice and cold steel in his eyes. However, the Prof was the inside track to a TA position for a colleague of his at Yale, where the Dork hoped to get his PhD, but this never materialized. Did The Cook ruin the Dork’s shot at going to Yale?
The Dork had an unusual gift. He was an awesome Dungeon Master. Since high school in the ’80s, guys from far and wide liked to play Dungeons & Dragons with the Dork. Guys on the football team. Guys with girlfriends. On several occasions, the eventual Homecoming King. The Dork would spend days getting ready for games. He knew what his dudes liked. Gaming sessions with the Dork were not the stereotypical boring, quiet wakes spent rooting through books and rolling endless dice, they were unhinged, beer-soaked orgies of play-acted violence, shouting and triumph set to a Metallica and Slayer soundtrack. They were, in fact, much like the garage band the Dork eventually fronted later. This continued into college. Popular dudes would sneak over to the Dork’s lair on Middlesex at Toledo and miss things like socials or keggers – even sex – to game with the Dork.
Well, the Dork still gamed at the time with a long-time (and really handsome) high school friend – the Stud – who was hooking up with one of the Ohio Budweiser Girls – the Squeeze – who was also a student at Toledo (in pre med) and who the Prof lusted for after meeting her through the Wife, for whom the Squeeze had been a student. The Dork and the Squeeze were good platonic friends, an arrangement that suited all involved. The Squeeze, a surprisingly sharp and non-frivolous sort when away from her cheesecake night job and ditzy girlfriends, enjoyed having someone to talk to at school about “heavy” stuff—those ultimately meaningless religious, political and philosophical matters that college-aged people think are important—that wasn’t female but who would studiously look her in the eye and not act like a slobbering horndog. The Dork both genuinely enjoyed her intellectual company and really liked the opportunity to slyly drink in the eye candy from the 50-yard line, far closer than any of the other salivating horndogs could get. The Stud liked the idea that, since 9’s don’t cheat with 2’s, he could leave the Squeeze with the Dork and thus mostly safe from the serious attention of other guys. The Dork and the Squeeze spent lots of time together. Like when the Squeeze took the Dork to see The Cook because the Stud couldn’t stand arthouse movies.
But the Prof eventually took notice of the Dork’s insider status with the Squeeze. He and the Dork had a shouting match over this one day when the Dork went in to discuss the Yalesituation – more specifically, they rowed about the purported role of the Dork to help the Prof, still on the rebound from the Wife, to woo the Squeeze away from the Stud in order to make amends for recommending The Cook.
Let’s just say that had the Dork never recommended The Cook to the Prof, nor been so loyal to the Stud about the Squeeze, the Wife might never have left the Prof, while the Dork might be have been a Yale alum instead of getting said PhD at A&M. No good deed goes unpunished.
How has this movie changed your life?
LikeLike
OK, so this video truly proves that negs will be somewhat more effective than beta behaviour. Personally, having been reading this blog for months now, I’ve started negging wholesale, with varied responses. I’d love some feedback on these true stories:
1.) 2 months ago I approached a 3 set: a 7.5-8, a 6.5-7 and a 6. The 6.5-7 was probably hotter, but she was hipster- weird hair and a black sweater with massive amounts of embroidered flowers on it. I said to the 8 and the 6: “I have to tell you something. You guys really need to compliment your friend on that elaborate embroidery she’s got going on. Its really amazing.” Stunned silence. Then the 8 reacts. “Yeah, its great. I love it too. Blah blah blah.” The girl gets a little uncomfortable, but eventually it comes out that this was her grandmother’s sweater. The conversation moves elsewhere, but sweater girl was not being nice to me, she’s mad about the whole sweater thing. Her friends were much nicer, but once it came out that the 8 was married, I felt that I had missed my alternate target by opening with the neg. Also logistically I could not isolate her because of the way they were sitting. I don’t consider this a failure, but also not a glaring success by any means.
2.) The girl who works at the gym has a very cute non-traditional looking face: ears that stick out, nose that points up a little, dark skinned. I cannot tell her ethnicity. Two days ago she had her hair tied back which I had never seen before, making her ears look even bigger. I said: “Going for the elf look today. That’s new.” I swear she got all pouty and actually looked like she was going to cry. I had to say “No, no, that’s a good thing. Elves are good. Dwarves are bad”. But shit, that was the end of that conversation.
My preliminary thoughts are that this negging thing is fun and extremely powerful, but so goddamn dangerous. I feel that I have discovered a powerful weapon, but I don’t know how to wield it productively. I’m not sure I will continue to use this except with with super-hot bitchy girls. I guess I just need to commit to being an asshole and live with the results.
LikeLike
Negging someone is not the same as insulting them. You have to have a light, teasing, flirtacious tone while you are doing it. If the girl feels like you have insulted her, and is outraged and hurt, you are probably doing it wrong.
LikeLike
At my 21st birthday my buddies took me out to a bar. Single at the time, one of them was a total natural, he had 2 hot 8’s in tow. He met them at a Yardhouse they were servers. Anyway, I’m getting fed drinks left & right. I remember the blonde 8 was making fun of me. I forgot what exactly but my response was, “Shut the Fuck up with your man hands.”
This was like the anti-dote. She immediately sank into the booth and got real insecure. The friend of mine that brought her & her friend was laughing hysterically. Afterward, she came over and sat next to me and told me she was always insecure about her hands.
From then on forward she began feeding me my beer, with her other hand on my thigh. We made out and I never saw her again.
Good times with the accidental discovery of the neg.
LikeLike
Great illustration of why beautiful women develop bitch shields.
Although, in reality, I doubt that many hot women actually have any internal dialogue going at all, and mainly just listen to what their cockblocking girlfriends have to say.
LikeLike
Initial Results…
–“Going for the elf look today. That’s new.”
HAHA! That’s awesome.
LikeLike
Pointing out that someone looks like an elf is not a Neg, it’s just an insult.
A Neg is more ambiguous but could be perceived by the girl as a criticism.
LikeLike
You can buy a chick an island for as little as 27K Canadian dollars.
Peter
LikeLike
“Beta behaviors illustrated:
Goofy smiling.
Unsolicited hugs.”
lol that sounds like most of MM
LikeLike
Initial results, “My preliminary thoughts are that this negging thing is fun and extremely powerful, but so goddamn dangerous.”
Check out Cajun on Keys to the VIP, where he has to open with a neg. He opens with, “You guys look retarded.” One girl gets distressed and orders him to leave, pronto.
When you use a high-powered insult like that, you have to have tight game and a quick turnaround, otherwise they will walk. Done right, and you’ll be sucking face in no time, as Cajun did. Cajun wanted to demonstrate how the worst opener can still work. (Though its not the worst, just too risky. especially in anything less than a grandmaster’s hands.)
*Every time I’ve been that insulting, I had either hooked up with the girl beforehand, or blown it by not doing a quick enough ‘turnaround.’ It’s too easy to get stuck shit-talking, with a cocky stare.
LikeLike
“I guess I just need to commit to being an asshole and live with the results.”
You’ll be pleased.
LikeLike
INITIAL…
umm negging then following up with references to Dungeons and dragons is not very alpha. what do you follow that up with- I’m a third level dungeon master?!
rofl.
I did like the elf neg tho – just dont apologize for it.
LikeLike
now THAT is fucking funny
LikeLike
The neg works on their soul so that the next time they see you they are ready to go. Walking out of bar with the new girl you picked up (the one that is hot) tell one of the others that turned you down that night “you missed your chance” The next time you see her she will be ready to go home with you that night.
LikeLike
You should have continued by explaining that both elves and dwarves have their merits, depending on what character class you want to play. You could have salvaged the situation.
LikeLike
When I first started learning the game I made the CRITICAL mistake it seems a lot of the commenters above are making, and that is confusing being “alpha” with being a total fucking prick. We all start somewhere, but I mean fuck.. calling a girl an elf? Telling her she “missed her chance”? Where do you think that will get you?
Don’t mislead people into thinking the meaner you treat a girl, the more she will like you. The neg is a quick, subtle, usually funny, TEASING way to let her know you are not some beta, and that you know what you’re doing. Once you communicate that, and she gets it, move on to showing her what a cool, FUN guy you are. A fun guy will never be mean to her unless she deserves it.
LikeLike
Reality TV examples are appropriate.
Reality TV is so real. It is more real than reality itself.
LikeLike
God I hate beta scum. The tall fuckhead with the curly hair ‘soooo lexi, what are you. ah…. ahh… you knowwww..’ Jesus I hate them. Something distinctly American about that guy I hate as well, like a uniquely American form of beta scum, I dunno.
This is why the neg is so important. Girls like this need to be treated like cunts. They want to be.
LikeLike
wow i just read the other comments. negtastic!
LikeLike
When you use a high-powered insult like that, you have to have tight game and a quick turnaround, otherwise they will walk.
First time last night I actually (somewhat) turned around a set that got really pissed at my opener.
Me to girl in leopard skin pattern top: “Hey, that’s very Flintstones.”
(She gets really pissed.)
Leopard skin girl: “That’s not what you say!”
(I give her this look like she is is from Mars. Friend, who has been looking elsewhere, turns around and joins set.
Girl whispers to her friend what I have said.)
Friend: “That’s not nice.”
Me: “What? You can’t take a compliment? _I_ always thought Wilma was sexy.”
This doesn’t turn around the girl I opened completely, but now her friend is totally into me. We chat a bit. Eventually, leopard skin girl goes off with some guys she knows who come in through the nearby front door. The friend has to go too, but whenever she sees later that night me that she comes up and squeezes my hand before getting dragged off by the leopard skin girl. She is in a mixed set, which still intimidates me, and I don’t reengage. Damn, got to dial up the inner game a bit.
Both were 8.5s.
The key in these sets is to hold your ground. Act like they are the one’s who did something wrong. The worst thing you can do when you get a cold reception is to turn away. Make _them_ leave.
LikeLike
” Telling her she “missed her chance”? Where do you think that will get you? ”
In bed with her the next week. I came up with that when you know I was in shape and knew I was gods gift to woman and before I read about game. Like to tell her she missed her chance to sleep with me that night. She didn’t miss it the next week.
LikeLike
I don’t think it was being mean to tell her that. I really meant it she did miss her chance at cumming 6 times a day and being able to have a man she can worship as her new god. So it came natural to say it but I realize it could probably under these rules be used intentionally by some of you to let the woman know your worth.
LikeLike
I hope this isn’t the only post we’re getting today. More of a throw-away one.
LikeLike
“The key in these sets is to hold your ground. Act like they are the one’s who did something wrong. The worst thing you can do when you get a cold reception is to turn away. Make _them_ leave.”
Yes and no. If your OPENER gets a bad reception, holding your ground, or “plowing,” is the appropriate course of action. In general I’d say plowing is appropriate for about two minutes. If, after two minutes, the set still projects indifference and disgust, eject, but in doing so, convey that they missed their chance, and convey in it way that makes them will feel naive and stupid for doing so. Following a strict “make them leave” policy will lead to “hovering,” which will not only destroy your chances with the set, but will also likely take a blow to your inner game once you realized what you did, because it is just that beta.
LikeLike
*If, after two minutes, the set still projects indifference and disgust, eject, but in doing so, convey that they missed their chance, and convey it in a way that will make them feel naive and stupid for doing so.
(sorry, multi-tasking mangled that sentence beyond comprehensibility)
LikeLike
“I feel that I have discovered a powerful weapon, but I don’t know how to wield it productively.”
Negs are like a loaded 9mm.
If you don’t know how to use them you can hurt yourself.
They do work best on the hottest girls, since most guys are sissys around the hottest girls.
They have to be natural.
And it helps if you are the top Lion in the Pride.
And you have to have real confidence with them.
A neg with half confidence is like a weak move to the hoop.
You will get swatted (by top tier girls).
Make strong moves.
– MPM
LikeLike
The only cat in that video with anything remotely resembling Game was the older Persian/Hindu cat.
“Ill buy you an Island”
Zero points for originality but at least he busted a move.
Pretty terrible, but at his age, and steez, what else does he have but “Money Game”?
– MPM
LikeLike
Thursday,
“The key in these sets is to hold your ground. Act like they are the one’s who did something wrong. ”
I think you did the right thing in the situation.
The move would have been when “later that night me that she comes up and squeezes my hand before getting dragged off by the leopard skin girl” to get her number and chop her up later.
Every set doesn’t have to be a “Game Closer”.
Use some sets as “momentum gainers” some as “number crunching sets”.
Keep a balanced diversified portfolio of sets in your night.
– MPM
LikeLike
I’m loling at the “missing the concept” negs here. “Going for the elf look?” Making fun of some girl’s sweater? That would only work if you were making fun of a 9 in front of a bunch of 8’s who secretly hate her, and it would still be kind of sycophantic to the 8’s.
A successful neg is something like making fun of your sister’s two divorces in front of a (really damn hot) girl you managed to figure out is divorced. And that’s after being charming and cracking up my end of the bar for a few minutes. All a neg does is make her feel beneath you enough that she can imagine your dong up her hoo-ha. You have to make her experience an emotion of amused submission, not an emotion of disgust. It’s for women who are giving you the, “he is intriguing, but I think he is full of shit,” business. You don’t walk up to women and bellow, “HELLO BITCHES, LICK MY NUTS.” I mean, you only do that to women you really don’t like, like women’s studies professors. Oddly though, “HELLO BITCHES; LICK MY NUTS” will make a women’s studies professor want to bone you, and that’s not an experience I’d wish on an enemy, so use with caution.
LikeLike
hahahhahahaha
LikeLike
That’s how betas act all the time, isn’t it… ? The amount of times I’ve have to say ‘Don’t do hugs/touching’ because I’m muslim and be stiff as a board/push them off because I didn’t have time to stop them…
LikeLike
I’ve had*
LikeLike
Come on Bhetti, don’t you want a hug? It makes everybody feel better!
LikeLike
—-The amount of times I’ve have to say ‘Don’t do hugs/touching’ because I’m muslim and be stiff as a board/push them off because I didn’t have time to stop them…—-
So I’m guessing you don’t own a dog?
LikeLike
“I said: “Going for the elf look today. That’s new.” I swear she got all pouty and actually looked like she was going to cry… But shit, that was the end of that conversation… I guess I just need to commit to being an asshole and live with the results.”
I predict that your dry spell will continue uninterrupted, just like 99% of “PUAs”.
Give up now and you’ll have more time for video games and more money for a mail order bride.
LikeLike
good one. hey when are you doin Spot the Alpha again? One of my favorite posts. made me delete allll my beta pictures!
LikeLike
If you are not watching “Chuck” on NBC you should be. Perfect example of PUA in general.
Last episode, nerdy beta boy hero gets schooled. Girl of his dreams tells him “nice guy losers talk about their feelings,” goes to a PUA type dominant Alpha who first makes her qualify herself, then gets hot and heavy with her in his hotel room. Perfect Asshole Game.
Even drops his towel in front of her as he walks away.
Interspersed with two totally lower than beta guys trying essentially the same thing and totally blowing it. Showing pretty easily that being Alpha is more than just lines and attitudes. It’s the whole deal, looks, physique, aggressiveness, confidence, and so on.
The PUA is one of life’s “instant winners” based on genetics, what’s interesting is how the beta hero decides basically to “opt out” for his version of DA’s railfanning.
LikeLike
It gets even worse in dance clubs. In the bar, there’s just a woman walking around with guys shooting those creepy glances as she walks by.
In a dance club, you’ve got a nice group of college girls dancing on a stage or platform, and guys just craning their neck up and gawking for like 5 to 10 minutes straight, like their first time at a strip club. Some even scale the stage to lean in to tell her, “Hey, you’re a really good dancer!”
And let’s not even start about how guys pretend to be the girl when they’re dancing nowadays (backing their ass into her crotch, etc.), and don’t mind being led around the club by her hand.
LikeLike
being led around the club by her hand.
Well, there is the good being led around by her hand and then there is the bad being led around by her hand.
LikeLike
ya i’ve had mixed results with negs. they work great when i’m more flamboyant. I think how it’s delivered is really important. If you don’t convey “i’m having a good time” then you come across like some evil prick.
However, it’s very very easy to get stuck in neg-mode. Been told that i’m mean and I don’t have to be condescending. Haha, still working on stopping that from happening.
LikeLike
The most essential kind of neg, I think, is the shotgun neg. If you open a set with more than 2 girls you will almost always get one girl who just doesn’t like you for whatever reason. Last night, in the middle of a 3 set (a blonde [8] AKA the leader, a brunette [8] AKA the target, and a fatty [could be a 9 if she put in some exercise, now a 7]) I put my hand on the shoulder of a blonde and she brushed it off distainfully. “So, you’re the one who’s mean to strangers.” Then without missing a beat, I went back to my own conversation, addressing the target and the fatty. I spared a quick, skeptical glance back at the blonde and her demeanor towards me had visibly changed almost instantly.
You can get by without negging the target to generate attraction, there are other ways of doing that, but you _have_ to have some comebacks/teases if you get tested by the target or her friends.
LikeLike
Thursday
being led around the club by her hand.
“Well, there is the good being led around by her hand and then there is the bad being led around by her hand.”
True.
If the coat check girl is leading you to a secret back room for a blower, let her lead.
– MPM
LikeLike
DA: Only from people I’ve allowed to hug me and/or only when I need to feel better! I’m usually okay hugging girls, though. Not when I first meet them, though, that’s just uncomfortable.
Halal: I want a cat! I can’t keep anything, due to being not allowed to in my flat. But, yes, don’t think I’d keep a dog in the house. They’re too cute not to pet when I see ’em regardless of the ritual cleaning that must follow. Don’t drink. Don’t smoke (not that that is religious, but, hey, might as well throw it in). Couldn’t really keep myself from sinning to some extent with the opposite sex, but hopefully that’s behind me…
LikeLike
Well, it’s not like I go around hugging women that I just meet. I didn’t hug non-date for at least six months after we first met…
LikeLike
“Well, there is the good being led around by her hand and then there is the bad being led around by her hand.”
True.
If the coat check girl is leading you to a secret back room for a blower, let her lead.
– MPM
Random chick was leading me, to the bathroom, but she led me behind the bar. Was thrown out of the club faster than you can say “wtf you DUMB BITCH!”
LikeLike
DA: Well, a lot of normal ladies seem fine with hugs. I used to slip now and then, maybe allowing hugs from an old male friend or two. I always ended up regretting it; either they or someone else brings it up when I end up uncomfortable again. Giving access to myself seems such a cheap act when it’s so high cost: the afterlife, guilt, my reputation, my beliefs about respecting a body and only allowing access to it in the safety of marriage. All for that temporary piece of pleasure or contentment?
LikeLike
what’s interesting is how the beta hero decides basically to “opt out” for his version of DA’s railfanning.
Women tend to get in the way of stuff. The time and money that you spend with your girlfriend could be spent in hobbies, which in my case could mean traveling to places to go railfanning or roadgeeking or taking or editing photos. Female friends are considerably more flexible and can be scheduled around my hobbies.
LikeLike
Hahah that was awesome! hahah
My favorite was at the end when her friend is like, “I’ve been in love with you all these years.” LOL. If he really was he should’ve played it smooth with so much knowledge of her… waited for a moment when she’s fed up with a guy/other guys and made his move, no?
LikeLike
“you _have_ to”
Is there some significance to these underscores thursday uses? Im genuinely curious.
LikeLike
That was fucking hilarious. I particularly enjoyed the contemptuous, hate filled looks she got from the sisterhood. Women get so catty when face to face with a hotter chick.
I LOVE YOU ROISSY!!!!
Now how beta was that?
LikeLike
The Indian guy’s line at the end is the best. “I can have this man killed, no questions asked”
LikeLike
Ya, his line was both a non-sequitir and a call-back. A call back is the comedic use of re-mentioning a theme. He didn’t just say “I’m a powerful man who can pay you for sex”, twice, he said “I can buy you an Island”, and “I can have this man killed, no questions asked”. Both wacky non-sequitirs. It gets funnier the second time, if you’ve had a chance for events to make ou forget the first time.
I’m told that comedy is exactly like game. It can be analized and broken down and honed by watching reactions. That’s why comedy clubs breed good comics.
LikeLike
Anonymous–
Great point to. Guys. For a great fairly short video of game played live and in the wild, at a Toronto nightclub, filmed by hidden cameras do indeed check out Cajun’s Keys to the VIP (that’s a tab he’s got at the top) and the first video he links there. Roissy links Cajun under game on the right margin, under his archives etc.
If you want to see game in action go see that. If you don’t, and aren’t a skilled player already, what are you doing here?
LikeLike
This is why I say that a man who achieves even MODERATE competence in Game will be ahead of 95% of all Betas/AFCs.
I define MODERATE competence in Game as :
**1) Being able to Open well, and often. Most novices never get past this stage, and thus never benefit from exposure to Game. Only by opening well will you create the opportunities to try anything else.
2) Being able to execute negs credibly and easily, without having to ‘remember’ to do it.
3) Knowing how to initiate and escalate the right type of kino
4) Being able to pass at least some of the shit tests she throws. It is too much to be able to identify all of them, but passing a few still goes a long way
5) Being able to successfully get her back to your place (or her place) for some seemingly innocent reason
6) Being able to execute sexually, and not halt at the sign of LMR.
Master just this much, and a man’s life will be splendid.
More advanced topics like working a mixed group, AMOG busting, seamlessly giving her a bit and then pulling away, asshole game, etc. can elevate a PUA even further, but these things are much harder to execute.
Focus on becoming moderate first.
LikeLike
The bald Indian in the video is making the mistake of focussing on a 21 year old hottie. He is too old for her.
But given his balls, he could clean up with 36 year old cougars (who are still much younger than him).
LikeLike
St. Patty’s Day in Hoboken tomorrow morning and the negs will be flying. “Psssh nice shirt!” “Psssh nice hat!” And whatever other stupid green props the girls are adorning themselves with.
LikeLike
““Psssh nice shirt!” “Psssh nice hat!” And whatever other stupid green props the girls are adorning themselves with.”
Those aren’t good negs. They are actually rather dumb.
LikeLike
Beta says:”I’ve been in love with you all those years”
Beta means: “I’ve wanted to have sex with you all these years. Personality? I know you so well. You’re just like that other chick over there, and that other chick over there also reminds me of you. Actually, almost every woman reminds me of your personality. Wierd, huh? *high giggle that is just so wrong on a man*”
LikeLike
“The bald Indian in the video is making the mistake of focussing on a 21 year old hottie. He is too old for her.”
Not if he shaves his head.
LikeLike
“Not if he shaves his head.”
That makes a slight difference at best. Not much.
It is extremely rare for a bald, middle-aged man to successfully become a Jean-Luc Picard. Picard has :
1) Super-Alpha leadership position and reputation
2) Ideal voice and accent
3) Superb temperament and ability to read other people
This is rare.
LikeLike
Why was the fat woman coming out of the stall funny?
LikeLike
Tood: She was just saying how fat and a mess she was. Actual example of fat person walked out, so a) contrast provided of how wrong she is b) hot girl has been “accidentally” a bitch by saying that out loud.
LikeLike
Tood: I know what happened. You were too busy staring at the hotness to hear what she said!
LikeLike
Hey – some dumbass is calling themself Expat.
That rubs my nuts.
Fine, turd, from now on I’ll always log on, so you can’t steal my identity.
LikeLike
Hey – some dumbass is calling themself Expat.
That rubs my nuts.
Fine, turd, from now on I’ll always log on, so you can’t steal my identity.
Signed – Expat.
LikeLike
Create your own nom-de-plume. Or do you still need help with that? Hows about “Chlamidia-leackage”?
LikeLike
Fake Expat:
“Those aren’t good negs. They are actually rather dumb.”
False. They have worked at a tremendous clip.
LikeLike
Fake Expat, you HIV infected cum bubble. I recommend you go suck rat dick in Hell. Shut your cock-holster if you can’t manage a clue.
It’s obvious that the best part of your brain ran down your mommas ass crack and ended up as a brown stain on the mattress.
I’d rather masturbate with sand paper than live in a world where I have to notice your existence.
Seriously. Shut your jizz receptacle, you gonosyphilitic crackwhore.
Rather than posting here, why don’t you go outside and play hide and go fkk yourself?
If this seems disrespectful, your assholiness, you can go suck off a giraffe. Truthfully, you should be banished to a romanian orphanage, never to be spoken of in the light of day again.
Your comments are about as useful as a jar full of foreskins, douche-nozzle. I mean, Mary mother of Christ with a yeast infection! Your daddy should have rolled over and shot you on the wall.
For the love of maritime buggery.
The stupid shit you say.
LikeLike
thx for postin the vid roissy, but why did the men follow her into the girls bathroom? thats kinda weird.
LikeLike
o yea nd she has that kind of face that you just wanna nut on.
LikeLike
fake Expat wrote:
“It is extremely rare for a bald, middle-aged man to successfully become a Jean-Luc Picard. Picard has :
1) Super-Alpha leadership position and reputation
2) Ideal voice and accent
3) Superb temperament and ability to read other people”
Apoo the Island buying hit man has 1, possibly 2 if he played Rajah properly, and apparently 3. He’s also funny as hell, which will get more ass than your average public toilet seat. If mah nigga would shave his head, get some platform shoes and put a tie on, he could nail young girls. Not every young girl, but plenty of good ones.
One of my homeys looks about the same age as Apoo, isn’t as funny (though he is taller and better looking, even if he has less hair) and he got mad early 20’s girls. Once he shaved his head. And yes, some of them were as hot as the chick in the video.
LikeLike
Russel, every one of the mens actions is satire meant to highlight the wrong demeanor. He desparately declared his love, as if that was romantic. As if it could possibly be attractive. As if she’s going to think to herself “Oh ya? You love me? Cool! I guess maybe I’ll love you too!”
LikeLike
Good Lord man I think there is a tear. wtf some funny shit on this thread.
LikeLike
Another superb parody of Beta-hood is Jim Carrey’s guest appearance in the ‘Night at the Roxbury’ skit.
Funny.
LikeLike
I think the fat chick is pregnant.
LikeLike
xsplat is just about the most Beta person I have even seen here, and that is saying something.
‘Expat’ wrote two simple things, not even talking to ‘xsplat’, and based on that, ‘xsplat’ is virtually crying like a kid who got beat up by a girl, posting the same message twice (a sign of uncontrollable fluster).
(fake) Expat = Alpha
xsplat = Omega. Possibly a virgin.
LikeLike
Pointing out that someone looks like an elf is not a Neg, it’s just an insult.
Huh. I’ve never taken it as an insult. But then it wouldn’t work on me as a neg, either….
LikeLike
All this beta bashing. You would think the alphas are trying to prove something. Let’s face it. Betas are better people than these alphas. Betas, for example, don’t feel the need to belittle others to puff up their egos. Betas do things like climb mountains, read books, study, invent stuff, and make money.
I am starting to suspect that Gamers are actually losers, from reading this blog.
I respect their insight into women. It’s devastating…for women.
But, how can having success with women like these lead to long term satisfaction? I understand the thrill of the chase and the joy at conquest, but, geez, this is what video gamers do all the time in their virtual worlds, which are a lot easier and cheaper to navigate and a lot more variegated. Is chasing empty headed girls really that much fun?
I can understand why these hotties don’t put much store in intelligence. What intelligent man would care to spend time with them? You might as well talk to your dog. At least he has big floppy ears.
Once beta boys learn the rules, it game over for most of these women. They will just be washed up party girls by the time they are 30. Pumped and dumped and who wants them for anything? When the betas realize how despised they are by these ex-hotties, they will avoid them like the plague. At least the sensible ones will.
The main problem that betas seem to have is that they are just nice people, not trying to B.S. anybody. They are so honest they just can’t tell a convincing lie. And, they spend so much time studying and working that they just aren’t cool. And, they are honest. Well, sounds like a good LTR material to me. If girls want Bad Boys, let them have them.
The Female mind is so warped, I suspect that just by refusing to have anything to do with them, the hotties will feel challenged to go after the betas, to show they can do it and especially when the cold winds start to blow. Like right now, with a depression coming on, those betas boys are going to start looking a lot better. This downturn lasts for more than a couple of years, this might be a time for beta boys to lay down the law, or at least lay some pipe.
The main problem of being a beta seems to be that they become targets for dishonest women, of whom there are many. That’s when betatude turns into servitude. Very bad and very sad.
Their (ex-hotties) only hope is that the beta boys don’t figure out the rules, or read this blog. If the hotties from the clubs had any sense, they would try to shut this web site down. Roissy might kill their chances for an easy retirement.
And the alphas in these clubs? Roissy says that when he is “old” he is going to rely on alcohol and prostitutes. Well, I suggest he try those remedies for 3 months straight right now, and find out how good they feel. Not much.
So, party on fellas, and feel smug while you can. No, your girl will never cheat on you! You’ll just smack that bitch and get her right back into line. (Who would want a crazy like that?) Or just go out and find another great babe to take her place. If you view people as just interchangeable parts, you might as well be using a sex doll.
I have never hear any self-proclaimed Gamer on this blog talk about a woman in any sense other than physical or emotional. I guess their girls don’t have personalities or education or hobbies or anything approaching high intelligence. None of them seem to have read anything, except maybe feminist literature.
I wonder how many of you have interviewed older ex-gamers to see how it turned out in the end? By older, I don’t mean 40, I mean 60 to 80 years old. 40 is still very young. Have any of you gone to nursing homes and interviewed the old people about what was rewarding in their lives?
Now, don’t get me all wrong. I respect Gamers and their insights into the female mind. I have found these insights most valuable. (Translation: Marriage only in the most extreme scenario. Ex-hotties need not apply. Prenups in full force. Paternity testing mandatory. Don’t try that B.S. on me, honey.) But, the Gamers seem to have gone over to the Dark Side of the Force.
LikeLike
Joel roissy is your faathhherrrr
LikeLike
“But, the Gamers seem to have gone over to the Dark Side of the Force.”
There are good ‘Gamers’ and bad, just like there are good women and bad.
But having Game is always preferable to not having Game, just like having two arms is preferable to just having one.
LikeLike
You’d get nowhere trying this.
Joel…the point is, even relatively “beta” men 40 years ago, where not as beta as they are today.
Before the “second-wave” of feminism (cultural marxism), masculinity was not demonized.
Masculinity was valued, prized and celebrated.
Before the divorce epidemic and the promulgation of the ubiquitous single mother household, boys were raised in large part by Fathers in intact, two parent homes, who role modeled for them how to be masculine.
Before the media was taken over by feminists and homosexuals, masculinity was portrayed in a positive manner, and encouraged.
Before the vast cultural changes of the last 40 years, “beta” males were far less prevalent than they are today.
In a culture that indoctrinates us males to “get in touch with our feminine sides” and worship the “goddess” beta-tude is rampant.
This is not to say that there were no Alpha’s or Beta’s or players back in the day…but you had far less gender confusion, far less men acting like spineless, ball-less, emasculated, new age “progressive” mangina’s.
Also, before the no-fault divorce revolution, even if women were unhappy with their men, they generally didn’t leave them…they stayed together for the sake of the children.
And before birth control, players were far less prevalent, because women where afraid of the very real consequences they would suffer should they get impregnated by the bad boys they were attracted to.
The player of today is a product of the cultural changes instigated in the last few decades.
No feminism, no sexual revolution, no divorce culture = no roissy.
LikeLike
I think that is what it is kind of boiling down to is what are woman offering men in your section of the woods. Yea much better to forsake having a woman till your at least 30 as a man/beta/alpha get your shit together. Either way you will be taken advantage of the first time but hey f it you got to learn. Everyone wants the shit on the other side of the fence only a few get to see what is actually there. Don’t dream of having a teammate in a woman they are not you lol unless you find that they work as a team with you and actually create something together then guess what she can’t divorce you and take everything she has earned half the shit to walk with and as an honest man of course you wouldn’t have a problem then with it. What is happening now is most woman seem to think they are entitled to all this stuff from men. Yet when you here them talk they just complain about some aspect of him that is “bad”. They are not adding shit to the equation to help make it better for him or the family/kids they claim to care so much about. Most woman are content to keep you a beta slave as it keeps you from easily leaving there non performing ass and finding something better. Find a woman who actually can do stuff but also is not a ballbusting bitch. That is the hardest to find. And dam did I get lucky but hey sometimes you got to carry your nuts in a wheelbarrow. Sometimes you have to hire people to carry them. Read the bible passage about the perfect woman if you find that you should probably stick with it. Also look who was with Jesus at the end two woman so they can be there for you just has to be the right ones.
LikeLike
Oh yea read that bible passage. It is amazing what woman are capable of handling. The west just doesn’t give them the opportunity to grow there strong points. Turns them into TV watching welfare recipients.
LikeLike
Joel
“So, party on fellas, and feel smug while you can. No, your girl will never cheat on you!”
That is probably an alphas biggest fear that has had tons of woman. Major fear of the one they end up falling for cheating on them as they have so easily gotten so many to cheat on their men.
LikeLike
What’s the finest taste in the world? Is it champagne? Caviar? Pate de foie gras? No … it’s GNP!
Peter
LikeLike
After you’ve been around a bit you just assume that all women can cheat, and keep a sharp eye on those that you don’t want to cheat. A less sharp eye on those that aren’t so important.
No biggie. Not like being cheated on is the end of the emotional world as we know it.
Trusting no one is a good, not a bad thing. Being cheated on a few times, and cheating a few times, makes a person more resilient.
LikeLike
I’m endorsing Dave from Hawaii’s comment.
BTW, a “Great Scenes of Game from Movies” suggestion for Roissy: Javier Bardem successfully approaches Scarlett Johansson and Rebecca Hall in “Vicki Cristina Barcelona.”
LikeLike
I’ve me a 55ish man who was still doing quite well for himself on the dating scene. He’d be so brash as to holler over at girls riding motorbikes beside his in the street, and get numbers. And follow through. And I’ve met a 60s man doing extremely well on the serial monogamy circuit.
Age is just not seen the same way in SE Asia. It not at all uncommon for older guys to pull, and pull hard. Pull whatever it is they want, even if that’s a serious wife.
LikeLike
come on joel
grow up
LikeLike
This is all really real, right?
How’s about we all go on vacation and give the hate a rest till
Rocktober.
LikeLike
“And I’ve met a 60s man doing extremely well on the serial monogamy circuit.”
My mentor in Bachelorhood is 67, and he regularly tags 30-somethings. He looks like a regular, though healthy 67 year old dude. Works in finance and used to fly fighter planes though, so as alpha as they come.
67 is old, and he don’t need no liquor and hookers to get through the week. If he did, he can afford it. Life is more than pussy. The satisfaction of leading a life to be envied is not to be underrated. Winning, triumph, adventure: women are just a part of life; if they were everything, I’d have gotten bored and killed myself by now.
LikeLike
but on an aside i would like to put vicky christina barcelona into the compost bin next to kirk cameron’s “fireproof” and the “left behind” series where the anti-christ is headed up by nicholae carpathia and the insidious UN. but it is great as a romantic comedy, or he’s not that into you…
LikeLike
Joel — reality check.
For nearly all women now, it’s immediate sexual attraction that matters first and MOST. All other qualities in a man are unimportant. It’s a hookup culture.
LikeLike
No feminism, no sexual revolution, no divorce culture = no roissy.
Thanks to feminism, I am no longer stuck with attempts by women to trap me and offer third rate, inferior sex in exchange for my wages so they can avoid starvation. Instead, women leave beta males alone, and work to maintain a middle class lifestyle on their own in the quest for an alpha male. Some beta males may complain that they’re left out, but once they realize the truth about women and alpha males, they soon realize that any relationship with a woman is predicated on a massive lie.
Thus, I’ll accept a world with Roissy if it provides benefits for me too.
LikeLike
All other qualities in a man are unimportant.
Yes, since being picked for my earning capacity isn’t fucking degrading to one’s spirit.
LikeLike
What many of you are forgetting about negs is that they should DISQUALIFY. Insults make you a bitter creep who still wants to fuck her but doesn’t know how to make polite human conversation. A proper neg will elevate you above her level or imply that she’s “faking” her own status, and thus beneath you.
My personal favorite, upon finding out a girl smokes (or you can just do this to any girl smoking outside):
Look of shock/surprise… her: “What?”
Me: “Oh no, it’s too bad for you, I don’t kiss girls who smoke.”
If you take your list of what you want in a girl (granola, party girl, blond, brunette, whatever) you can use those standards as negs. Whatever she doesn’t meet, you say, “I like X girls.” or “I need an X girl.” Watch her try to qualify herself to you.
Opening with a neg is best done on her appearance or her situational/social awareness.
LikeLike
joel dude u sound like 1 of those guys that only has platonic girl frends that cry on ur shoulder to but wuld never even thnk about fucking but is still oblivious to it. now dude im not tryin to insult u as trust me i been ther (wich is y i read this blog), but after a while wuldnt u get tired of only bein thought of as a friend to most girls you know? i for 1 know dat im sick of my gurl frends only “play flirtinG” with me.
LikeLike
but after a while wuldnt u get tired of only bein thought of as a friend to most girls you know?
Since I understand that these girls will never like me and are incapable of any sexual desire towards me, I wouldn’t feel tired of being thought of as a friend, but instead, rather appreciative of their company and friendship and the fact that they let me enter their lives.
LikeLike
so if all ur friendship with women were platonic, u wuldnt mind at all?
LikeLike
so if all ur friendship with women were platonic, u wuldnt mind at all?
Since all of my relationships with women are platonic with one exception, it really doesn’t bother me, especially since I’m well aware that these women would never find me attractive, and these girls will never fill that porn star niche for me.
LikeLike
The real reason countries are always invading Russia?
Russian women, of course – http://russianwomen.wordpress.com/page/2/
LikeLike
An interesting read on how to man up and control your woman is written by a Thai woman, over here
She says, basically, don’t put up with our shit, not even for one second, or we will walk all over you and lose all respect for you.
Oh, and don’t expect your romantic notions of love to match ours.
Man up, dudes. Man up, and stay maned, for each piece of shit you take, you’ll be fed again. Keep your pimp hand strong.
LikeLike
interesting, but u must b intersted in dating women if u read here right?
LikeLike
DA
Sure, DA, even conceding your point of blah blah blah, don’t you want a woman to get you a beer and make you a sammich?
It may not be the birthright of men to have a properly trained wench, but it is an option.
Food is better when its given to you. Healthier.
LikeLike
I think its the depravity of your autism that is so revolding, DA. You can’t tell the difference between food that is made for you and given to you by a loving mate, and food you prepare for yourself. To you they are both just food.
You undervalue nurturance. And don’t get on about little bitty nurturance substitutes. Life is to be inflated, overabundant, superabundant with nurturance. And sassy slappin bitch moaning sex.
LikeLike
You need to do something about all of the new posters who rite liek tihs.
LikeLike
I can relate to “bad game friday”
roissy, I hope you will see this comment and create a future post on it. I met a woman (27) three weeks ago at a club. I ran tight game when we met, then waited a week before I texted her. I got a good response because of the great conversation we had (a lot of “cocky funny” game, passing shit tests with flying colors, etc.) I met her for coffee a few days later, showed up 15 minutes late, she paid, continued to run “cocky funny” while having genuine conversation. I passed every shit test, she turned out to be married, but her interest in me was undeniable. I didn’t get anything (not even a make-out) by this point. So I stopped calling/texting, she started to pursue ten fold. For every 3 texts from her, I replied once. I flaked on our meeting today, which I could tell drove her up the wall. Tonight, I told her to let me know if she was going out, to which she replied, “ok, I like this.” Anyways, I texted her later to let her know I was at a house party in an area and that it was boring.
This is when things start going great. She “lives in that area!” She wants to “come rescue me from the boredom” (its midnight, it was a sex invitation for sure). I told her to “save me!” playfully – looking back on it this was the start of my beta behavior. This is somewhat a recreation of the texts from then on (I deleted them because I was so ashamed of going back into beta mode)… Let this be a lesson to ALL GUYS… DON’T EVER CAVE DURING SHIT TESTS.. EVER EVER EVER! IT DOESN’T MATTER. This is how 3 weeks of work ended in about 7 text messages (I will give my thought process behind the words I used along with the actual words I used):
Her: I will come whenever you want me to. I really like you a lot. I think you are a really good person and I don’t know why but I’ve never felt like this about a man before. I can’t explain it, I think you have insecurities that you cover up with arrogance, but you understand me for who I am.
(my thoughts: OK, she sees through my cocky ‘game’ – but she likes it anyways, she knows what’s going on but she likes it, saying something like ‘I like me too’ would be ideal, but I think she wants me to be vulnerable and that will close the deal)
Me (I cringe as I rewrite this): Everyone needs to be loved. It’s a basic human need to be appreciated, thought about, cared for and to have compassion.
(10 minutes pass)
Me (realizing I just fucked this up big-time): Overall though, I like me too. So are you close?
Her: That sounds more like you. Thats good because we all need someone to care about. I’m close but I’m sick.
Me (knowing I had fucked up and that it was over): Ok whatever, goodbye.
(Silence)
I deleted her number 5 minutes later. Then I proceeded to bitch slap myself in the face. Then, I banged my head on the steering wheel. This is all in an attempt to knock the beta out of me. I can’t say I learned a lesson, because I already knew this all along. Just a message to the guys out there. A very specific example of how 3 weeks of tight game can be undone with a few simple beta comments.
LikeLike
You spelled tihs wrong.
But that’s ok, I knew what you meant, and it’s a bit autistic to be a dick-tionary.
LikeLike
stfu YA dont b angry because not even ur arm wanted to give ur dick attention tonite
LikeLike
Whack opener:
Painful. Literally.
LikeLike
interesting, but u must b intersted in dating women if u read here right?
I come here primarily for the attention and the fact that I can discuss the topics here without any fear of public reprisal. Similar attempts to discuss the topics in the real world have essentially been shunned by both male and female friends.
don’t you want a woman to get you a beer and make you a sammich?
Not really. I’d prefer that she be self-actualized too.
To you they are both just food.
If she does it all the time, then the nurturance is gone, and it’s simply a boring chore she performs out of habit.
And sassy slappin bitch moaning sex.
The sex that only alphas are capable of.
LikeLike
“Oh no, it’s too bad for you, I don’t kiss girls who smoke.”
That’s a horrible line, because it’s not true, and she will see through it. The distinction is too concrete
If you’re not very far along in talking to her, the “too bad for you” shtick will come off as extremely cheesy and weird. Assuming too much too quickly, unless you’re George Clooney, comes off as weird.
The category has to be more nebulous. I don’t get along well with most japs, but the borderline ones are great. I accuse them of being a jap and they will qualify themselves to no end. She will try and contort her identity to suit your purported likes and dislikes, if she likes you.
LikeLike
If she does it all the time, then the nurturance is gone, and it’s simply a boring chore she performs out of habit..
Your expectations at 25 are very different than what they will be at 35 and beyond. In your 20s, you want freedom and discovery of new things. Past 30, existential questions such as “what good am I” start creeping in; when you can’t find a good answer to those questions, all the freedom and fun loses its flavor.
I’d prefer that she be self-actualized too.
I like self-actualized women too. A good woman with a strong character, integrity, and devotion to her worthy man and kids is more self-actualized than a slutty, childless, she-lawyer. The first one lives purposefully and feels like she belongs. The second one knows that no one gives a damn about her.
only alphas are capable of.
A man’s alpha-beta status is very flexible.
LikeLike
As others said, Dave from Hawaii has been outstanding in recent threads. But let’s not overlook Gunslinger, who’s been dead-on lately. (His run-on sentences can be hard to follow but they’re worth the effort)
LikeLike
Joel says, ” Betas are better people than these alphas. Betas, for example, don’t feel the need to belittle others to puff up their egos.”
Note to self: Do NOT read Joel’s posts while drinking anything.
Joel, if anything, betas are more prone to social pettiness and belittling others to maintain hierarchy in their herds than alphas. An alpha male’s interest in the herd is to either exploit it or tend it, usually a little of both. A beta’s job is to be a tool, and this doesn’t make them better…just with a different role.
Betas commit atrocities in the name of their ideology or representative of it, every day. The tool who does the dirty deed is not morally superior to the leader who ordered him to do it.
LikeLike
Joel, if anything, betas are more prone to social pettiness and belittling others to maintain hierarchy in their herds than alphas.
Kthula, I think Joel is somewhat new to the subject and still thinks that Alpha = fraudulent manipulator and Beta = honest man.
The TV show “Two and a Half Men” is a great example of what you are saying. Charlie (alpha) is easygoing and good to be around, despite (because of?) with his harder, abrasive side. His brother Alan (beta) comes off initially as a nice and reasonable guy, but quickly gets on people’s nerves with his pettiness and antisocial habits.
LikeLike
PA, but the problem is that men don’t want women like that anymore. They want hot women.
A virtuous woman gets put in the friend zone these days.
To me though, slutting around and ending up old and bitter with no real friends is a far worse fate than being a nice old lady with a few good friends and some occasional albeit temporary attention from a guy who has a little sense.
LikeLike
problem is that men don’t want women like that anymore. They want hot women.
Teenagers and guys under 27 — yes. They’re very short-term oriented. Guys over 30, if they’re honest with themselves, want a woman with those qualities who is not hot, but simply over their attractiveness threshold.
Remember “Bridge Girl” in a recent thread? She wasn’t hot, but a lot of guys expressed interest in her because of their latent desires for a reliable woman, and Bridge Girl looked like one.
LikeLike
PA, I’m not sure men always settle down as they age. Some people get friskier. Some alternate between monogamy and non-monogamy.
I don’t think the pattern is always from sowing your oats to settling down.
Many old folks are rockin-it-on in their old folks orgy homes.
LikeLike
Actually, PA, I’ve heard human sexual nature best described as several styles that people can have. Some of us tend towards non-monogamy, some to lifetime monogamy, some to serial monogamy, and a few etceteras thrown in.
The weirdness comes when we understand ourselves, and think we therefore understand all the OTHER, DIFFERENT styles. Or assume that everyone will follow the same tradgectory between alternating between styles.
Or that our own style is fixed.
It can be a bit piss-off inducing when people try to ram their own ideology down your throat. Sometimes teens are always going on about Soul-Mates until I just want to smack em. Same goes with this settling down nonsense. For some people, it really is just nonsense.
LikeLike
Explat, I agree with what you are saying but I for most men who aren’t celebrities, super-rich, or naturally super-alpha, remaining single past a certain age brings diminishing returns.
This is why today’s marriage realities are so tragic: Roissy and Dave are 100% correct: it’s a raw deal and a “marriage strike” of some kind is a reasonable adaptation of most men. Matriarchy is self-devouring.
LikeLike
From what I’ve heard, PA, there are lively groups of senior swingers.
And, of course, there is always SE Asia.
I had a harder time pulling in my thirties than I do in my forties, and had a harder time pulling in my twenties than I did in my thirties.
Some people just lighten up as they age. Year after year of just taking shit that much less seriously. Can only help with the sex life.
Anyway, come to SE Asia, or read expat boards, and you’ll see there is a fine and incongruous mix of the married, the dating seriously, the non-monogamous, the monger dilletantes, and the hard core whore connoseirs.
It takes all kinds, and they occur in all ages.
Old folks don’t settle down. We just die down.
LikeLike
PA, but the problem is that men don’t want women like that anymore. They want hot women.
A virtuous woman gets put in the friend zone these days.
I don’t know … LJBF’ing is pretty much a women-only thing. I’ve never heard of a man doing it to a woman.
Peter
LikeLike
Explat,
“You can’t tell the difference between food that is made for you and given to you by a loving mate, and food you prepare for yourself.”
Hell yea food tastes better especially when it is fed to you by your woman in a nice lacy Neglije. Same if your woman shaves you/washes you in the shower/cuts your hair/gives you a message/Lets you lay down in her lap at the ocean to chill and just not give a fuck about anything else on the planet. Intimacy building things. Things that can help make a life worth living.
LikeLike
I respect their insight into women. It’s devastating…for women.
It’s devastating only to the kind of women they’re talking about, which is not all women.
LikeLike
“The women did not have the necessary burial spices. So they waited until the Sabbath was over, bought the spices, and went to the tomb.
The women intended to wash and anoint the body of Jesus. This was a traditional task of Jewish women, as they prepared the bodies of family members for burial. It was a last, gentle service given to the body of the person they loved. ”
Screw the 50’s as some kind of great time for men. Look way before that.
LikeLike
I don’t know … LJBF’ing is pretty much a women-only thing. I’ve never heard of a man doing it to a woman.
Take it from a woman with first-hand experience of it: it’s not a woman-only thing.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii —
Feminism didn’t cause the sexual revolution, birth control did.
As well there’s be women all through the workplace today without ideological feminism. They wouldn’t be in as high proportion but they’d be there much more than the fifties. And well they were actually starting to be there in the fifties anyway.
All in all we’d have a much healhier social environment for men and women both, if ideological feminism had never held sway.
Hell it didn’t much in France. Far, far less.
LikeLike
Well I’ll still be studying my various “game” video programs ,thank you(which i did NOT buy at retail,ha ha now THATS a beta move-paying full price!) but I really do not want to be like you guys! You are creepy!!:)
LikeLike
Proverbs 31:10-31 (New International Version)
10 [a] A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.
11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.
12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.
13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.
15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.
19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.
21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.
22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.
25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.
26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:
29 “Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all.”
30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
Yea thats what I am talking about woman getting off too easy today acting like there is not enough time in the day. Somehow think they are more advanced and somehow doing more than the ideal woman from over 2000 years ago.
LikeLike
@guns,
I agree heartily with your Proverbs 30 description of a good wife. I especially agree that the wife should manage the family purse.
#16- she purchases the real estate
#18- she buys and sells the stock portfolio
#20- she decides upon the charitable giving
#26- she is regarded for her financial wisdom
I hope this model has worked well for you too.
LikeLike
existential questions such as “what good am I” start creeping in; when you can’t find a good answer to those questions, all the freedom and fun loses its flavor.
As somebody who has faced that question for the past seven years, I’d argue that the freedom and fun are the only way to paper over that question.
I like self-actualized women too.
From my perspective, the slutty, childless female lawyer is more self-actualized. She has a job, she’s independent, and she’s less reliant than the woman who is devoted, but mentally dependent to her husband and kids.
A man’s alpha-beta status is very flexible.
I used to think that a beta for one female is another female’s alpha, but my IQ shot up a few points up from zero, and I realized that lie isn’t true.
Remember “Bridge Girl” in a recent thread? She wasn’t hot, but a lot of guys expressed interest in her because of their latent desires for a reliable woman, and Bridge Girl looked like one.
The problem is that girls like Bridge Girl don’t have sexual appeal at all, and if you want to extract the benefits of a relationship, it seems foolish to enter into a real one with a non-sexual girl like her when you can just befriend her. The last thing that I want is to cheat on her because a better looking, more looking sexual female came along.
Remember, beautiful doesn’t neccessarily mean sexually attractive. OTOH, from what I’ve seen, some guys seem to have “low” standards for what constitutes sexually attractive and doable. Bridge girl wasn’t ugly, but I wouldn’t have sex with her even if she offered it.
I don’t know … LJBF’ing is pretty much a women-only thing. I’ve never heard of a man doing it to a woman.
While I’ve never stated openly to “let’s be friends”, I have implicitly done it to three women.
LikeLike
Again, Dave, please refrain from your posts of this sort. Not only doesn’t anyone care to know or listen, but they actually do the reverse of what you state, which is to give you attention. Unless, of course, scorn is the kind of attention you crave.
O
LikeLike
Yea it has been working great. I am of course also the man. She has gotten about 15 percent of what I have made and done well with it. Which is slightly irritating to me but does make me proud. Better than I have so far with the 65 percent. We spend about 20 percent of my income. Which she intentionally does stuff to make me proud of her. She likes it when I am happy. Basically according to this the woman is taking care of the basic needs of the family and maybe some more. The man can then focus on other things besides his family eating, being clothed, or housed. The poor in his area are fed as well because of the excess. The man can then focus on things like adding cash to the family coffers (for unexpected eventualities,big projects), being super rich, building an empire, coming up with new inventions, taking on the big projects like trying to help the country compete vs world while still keeping there culture.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
Out of her earning she does more. Initially the man can give the woman money to do well. I think a man is geared towards saving chunks of money with which to give his woman a share.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.
She continues on to help the family. Maybe opens a salon. Starts raising geese/chickens. Convenience Store,
20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.
Turns the husband’s initial work into something greater than it would have been just spent. She can feed many people from the fields she planted.
26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
She can give her husband good advice on the tribulations he may go through from a different perspective. She advised me to not do anymore stock market after my initial losses before. I didn’t listen and got creamed. But hey now I know and knowing is half the battle. Kind of follow her example and go for assets that produce income instead of gambling that produces nothing. I was going for the big score to help us both go big. Didn’t work out. She still kept what she had so we didn’t lose everything so yea cool. Now I get to go in another direction all the while she is developing something in her area. I can learn stuff from her and my own mistakes. Now she is on a path where my learning curve does not affect basic needs.
LikeLike
“LJBF’ing is pretty much a women-only thing. I’ve never heard of a man doing it to a woman.”
Reason to LJBF a woman; she’s hot and a fun wingman, but she has herpes.
LikeLike
David Alexander
You should be free to do your thing. What is scary for a lot of people probably is that if a shitload of people like you just opt out it will change the face of society. If video games vastly improve really what reason will there be to go out for a lot of guys. Working part time will be enough to survive. They will just continue there adolescense well into their lives. I could of opted out and just played ultima online. I have an inner drive that makes that impossible for too long without getting ahead. You may decide to do something else someday. I realized I could get rich putting the same hours into working that I put into the game. Then hell I can go back later and play the game for fun but still have the benefits of being rich. Talk about some comfortable video gaming 🙂
LikeLike
I’m wondering why any man would seriously want the vapid bitch in this video….key word being seriously I guess. Why put your dick in THAT at all? Really dumb question I know.
LikeLike
Gunslinger
Your incessant biblical postings are worse than my Osho quotes.
Osho on (true) femininity:
That’s why it happens every day, that the man is honking the horn on the street and woman goes on saying from the window: “I’m coming. Just wait a minute.” Women have no time sense, they have watches, but they are ornamental. They are not watches really. They don’t have any time sense because they are not in a hurry……
Man exists with time, with a worry, and deep down the worry seems to be sexual, a worry about achieving a sexual orgasm. Whenever a man is making love to a woman he is worried whether he will be able to make it or not; worried whether he will be able to prove that he is a man or not. There is a worry, an inner trembling, a hurry somehow to prove, and that’s why he misses. Ejaculation is there, but orgasm–no. Orgasm is a different phenomenon; it happens only when you re not worried; it happens only when you are not an achiever, it happens only when you are not reaching for something; it happens only in deep relaxation; it happens only when you are not in control, but nature is. When nature takes control your whole body throbs with an unknown bliss. Then every cell of your body celebrates in total ecstasy, then it is divine.
But man is worried, and that sexual worry is the root cause of all worries., because everywhere he is trying to prove himself.
There is no need to prove yourself. You are. You are perfect. No woman is worried about proving; she takes it for granted that she is perfect, she lives in a very relaxed way…..
I hope that was as good for you as it was for me. 🙂
LikeLike
I think the biblical fits pretty good about what is to be expected from a woman and what they are capable of. There is good advice in there even though I am no longer considered practicing. I don’t know about the perfect part look at your posts your not quite agreeing with that. You did not make it work how could you be perfect if you didn’t have anything to prove you would have stayed with him got him through the hard time time whether it took 5 years or 10 years or 20 years if time did not concern you. I think I have come as close as I have seen to finding perfect though.
LikeLike
If you look at the popularity of the “girl next door” types, they are easily the most sought after in say, FHM and Maxim and the other “lad” magazines, gals like say Sarah Michelle Gellar, Amanda Bynes, Kari Byron from “Mythbusters,” Alyson Hannigan, and Michelle Trachtenberg.
Bombshell types are not as popular, and pr0n’s “amateur” or girl-next-door types easily outweigh the sort of gal that David Alexander prefers, in terms of raw popularity.
That seems a tremendous shift, and in turn seems to me to signal a massive series of doubts about how men view women sticking by them. Which is not very much.
The man-boy, eternal adolescent stuck in video games or railfanning or what have you, and PUA, neither wanting or able to commit, stems from most women not being willing to commit and able to leave for a “hotter” guy at any moment. The guys who cannot compete opt-out for diversions, and prefer “girl next door” idealized nice-girls as sexual objects (that is a huge shift folks from past preferences and a huge red flag). PUA types play the field until age forces them to settle for a woman considerably younger. Most women end up alone and with lots of cats, after racking up the bed post scores, or single mothers by choice.
Two and a Half Men is probably NOT a good example of beta-Alpha treatment. Rather, “Chuck” is a better example. Chuck’s prospective brother-in-law is a perfect Alpha. Handsome, high Testosterone, constantly doing adventure sports, skydiving and that sort of thing, he offers advice Chuck has a hard time taking. Chuck is beta, but compared to the lower guys at his retail hell workplace, he’s like a god. He consistently fails with women though, because the competition is just too rough, and the women dump him for a more tougher, masculine Alpha who is not as nice as his brother-in-law.
The show depicts the full range, and how eternal adolescence devolves into total futility. The character Jeffrey “off at 8 pm, hammered by 8:15” being a good example as are the “bromances” between Jeffrey and other mega-loser Lester, and the lead Chuck and wingman and slacker Morgan.
The betas Chuck and Morgan occupy the nether world. Occasionally attracting the interest of women, Morgan the off-on interest of hot but also low-status Asian girlfriend, Chuck the off-on manipulations of the hot secret agent sent to protect him, who likes him in LJBF mode but manipulates him as a matter of course, and the Alphas: Chuck’s brother in law and various romantic nemesis super-secret agents who win the hottie he is enamored of. Also depicted is Chuck’s tendency to simply opt-out of romance into bromance and video games. Since he really can’t win.
As a social commentary it’s devastating. The “hero” who is depicted as fairly brave and smart, but not the sort of James Bond heroics that it takes to be the “instant winner” never gets the girl. Who prefers the instant sexual attraction of dominant, romantic strangers who are classic cocky-asshole-funny PUA, with lots and lots of status-power behind them.
LikeLike
Peter, friend zoning happens to women for the same reason it happens to men. The only difference is that guys are more willing to shag a friend or someone they feel isn’t good enough for them, than girls are.
So it might seem that girls don’t get ljbf’ed, but it’s just because most of the time we’re explicitly or implicitly opting out of an fwb situation. Some women don’t have male friends, partly because they take it as an insult if a guy wants to shag them without a commitment.
I just view it as one of those things about guys that one shouldn’t take personally, but definitely shouldn’t give in to either.
LikeLike
Also, the guy who listed out how easy it is to learn game. Your list is basically everything the best guys out there have learned. You’re kidding yourself and 95% of guys if you think those basics are simply to learn or master. Those initial skills are 99% of the effort involved in your path to grand master pooahhh. The other 1% is just calibration, which becomes a whole hell of a lot easier, since you are no longer sensitive to rejection or approach anxiety.
LikeLike
Joel:
Keep it clear in your head: in each group, there will be good people who are probably in the minority in comparison to the bad people (depending on where you draw your line for ‘good’/’bad’). There will be betas who are the ideal betas: loving, caring, not disrespectful and appreciative of a good woman. Guys who can seperate lust from love. There will probably be mostly be betas on the scale of what people have mentioned above: weak, indecisive, helpless, needy, dishonest but not even aware of their dishonesty.
If you’re a beta, I’m already thinking you’re not the “ideal” model of beta because you’ve just stopped short of stating that women are into evil men. Where’s the respect, the benefit of the doubt? Where’s the lack of resentment for a hot woman being sexually attracted to something that you don’t feel is what you are? Stop perpetuating the nice man beta myth. Most of them are just passive aggressive, and if they were given extra confidence, a lot of them would show quite obviously their severe case of jerkitis. Give guys who obsess with videogames extra confidence, and they might just add ‘going to the club’ as their new game. It’s not a coincidence it’s called ‘scoring’.
If you’re an alpha: you could be a class A jerk who’s into screwing with people’s heads and humiliating them; you could be a sex (+/- other substances) addict or you could be a confident man who’s at home with his sexuality, his identity, his own personal code and the reality of his world. The latter’s probably going to settle down as he gets older, getting longer relationships if he finds a woman who’s interesting and reliable enough to do so with.
Both betas and alphas do the creative activities you mentioned; they have nothing to do with game, except for maybe differences in how successful they are at doing them. You have to also remember that both types can develop: they could either start out or end up as better people in life.
LikeLike
I don’t think DA fits the model of typical beta, which is why it’s odd to use him as a representation of betas. I don’t see betas as asexual; they’re very sexual but viewed by women non-sexually. He’s more like a case study: having very selective sexual desires (triggered by porn during sexual development?) yet your personal & moral principles totally reject them. It’s something that’s supposed to be more common in women.
The irony is that if DA tried, he might easily have a better time of learning game simply because he isn’t genuinely attracted to the women he might approach. I understand that the only strategy where being attracted works in your favour is more advanced game, when one uses Shock & Awe.
DA, the question is: if you are uncomfortable around women even while you’re not sexually attracted to them, why is that? Why do you have such selectivity in the first place, when it’s apparently out of the norm for your gender?
LikeLike
Sara. Re:Osho
Short translation – A Female accepts without even thinking about it that she can rest in the shade while the males compete in various ways so she will know which one to fuck.
So, in her mind she must be perfect because getting laid is effortless. Whatever.
Getting a guy to stick around might well require a different kind of perfection. So will having guys care whether you live or die.
LikeLike
Run
Forgive me, but I feel quite sure you don’t get Osho’s meaning. Unfortunately, the truth is often more in the silence between the words than the words themselves which you seem to be taking quite literally. Just an observation. If you were “into” Osho, you’d understand him but a few quotes do not a devotee make. He was known also to contradict himself frequently, but taken in context he never really contradicted himself. Truth and wisdom is not left brain or right brain but a lovely marriage of the two with the heart added; hence 99.9% of people are not wise.
LikeLike
“on March 7, 2009 at 7:16 pm Sara I
Run
Forgive me, but I feel quite sure you don’t get Osho’s meaning. Unfortunately, the truth is often more in the silence between the words than the words themselves which you seem to be taking quite literally. Just an observation. If you were “into” Osho, you’d understand him but a few quotes do not a devotee make. He was known also to contradict himself frequently, but taken in context he never really contradicted himself. Truth and wisdom is not left brain or right brain but a lovely marriage of the two with the heart added; hence 99.9% of people are not wise.”
The above is what the problem is when woman go to court and are expected to give accurate accounts of what happened. Poor bastards.
LikeLike
The usual reason to hang with a woman is to eventually get in her pants. If you then find that something about her that puts you off, like her being a control freaky nag, you’ll not dare even try a drunken one night accidently falling into of the pussy.
And for the non-control freaky nags, yes, men more likely aim for FWB, while women are more likely to invite you to their birthday parties and then forget to suck your dick afterwords.
LikeLike
Some poster said I was making negative generalizations about women.
On this blog, any man who unstintingly cares for a woman is considered a fool and a beta.
On this blog, any man who scores multiple babes and dumps them as soon as it’s convenient is considered an alpha. A real guy. Manned up.
These opinions are based on the preceived reactions of most women to such men.
Now, who is making negative generalizations about women?
LikeLike
Joel, what is your point, other than “I disagree and the people I disagree with are of bad character”.
You aren’t reading for comprehension here. Every one of your points has been refuted many times over, and over, and over. You drag out the same old dishevelled barely stuffed strawman, and call that your Moral Goodness. As if we should learn from you.
But you are just a dumb kid. I don’t usually stoop to ad hominem, but honestly though, dumb kids don’t know shit. And you are dumb kid. Are you even twenty?
LikeLike
What the rest of the blog says doesn’t matter in relation to if you personally did make a generalisation or not.
LikeLike
?
LikeLike
Hey, I dig Sara’s Osho quote. Dude knows something.
On other topics … I must have missed an acronym explanation. What does “FWB” stand for?
LikeLike
Friends with benefits.
LikeLike
FWB = friend with benefits, the implied benefit being sex. It’s usually more beneficial to the male than the female since it’s difficult for a woman not to think of a sexualized sentimental attachment as a romantic attachment. Then there’s also the problem of guys not putting forth much effort in pleasuring a woman who he doesn’t have romantic feelings towards.
I can’t imagine being desperate enough for sex to do something like that on purpose. Masturbation with a carpenter’s rasp sounds like more fun.
LikeLike
I don’t understand comment moderation, and how to get out of it.
LikeLike
At first I was going to argue with that sentiment, but then three tenths of a second clicked by in my brain, my brain set to a new state, and the next thing you knew, I found agreement.
And then think on this for three tenths of a second. What about married chicks. Not giving head.
LikeLike
Fuck me with a spoon. Comment moderation is more antichrist then even DA. it’s automated.
LikeLike
Ktulah, I at first disagreed with you, but quickly found my ideas fluidly self arranging, like the self aware nano-bots they are, into a new Terminator 2 picture of the world.
You are correct. Without the magnetism towards your mate you don’t do fellatio.
Married women tend to lose attraction, and stop giving felatio.
LikeLike
Joel if you don’t like this world, well there is not much you can do about it.
Men don’t put much investment in women they figure they won’t have exclusive sexual access to. They just don’t. It’s basic biology and while you might say “double standard” (and be right) it won’t change a thing.
Women get as much exclusive male devotion as they demand by providing exclusive sexual access. It’s also true that the more partners a woman has, the less valued she is by each successive male partner.
If the nuclear family is dead, and it is, then why would men bother with anything other than scoring as many women as possible?
This is exactly the West African model. Spread your seed. See also the Black Ghetto and the White British underclass.
The way men treat women is directly related to how women relate to men, reward men with sex and who indeed they have sex with. This is reality: women do the choosing and so men adjust behavior accordingly.
If you want men to be devotional, old-school romantics towards women, each and every guy must have a relatively fair shot at a woman equal his own level of attractiveness. The system need not be perfect, it need not produce this result for everyone, but must work for most.
Otherwise, PUA and man-boys with video games is what you will get. That’s it.
As for women/men being friends, sure after sex appeal of each is gone, and each has produced kids with spouses, it can happen in the confines of professional relationships. However, men and women are different, and want different things. Men care about sports, sci-fi, comic book characters, stuff like that that are tedious to most women. Women like “fabulous” fashion and other things that bore men to tears. So while it can happen it’s pretty rare since men/women are vastly different.
LikeLike
Xsplat, I agree!
LikeLike
Because some marriages are based on things other than kids. My father is into his second, with a wife that is post menopausal.
LikeLike
Yes, women control a seller’s market. But Alphas control a seller’s market also.
And fatties have little market value.
I think that sums your argument. And it is not flawed, exactly. Its, uh, what’s the word… wrong.
You are Utopian, Whiskey. You think like a girl, in terms of Social Science. In terms of Agreements.
You are top down, not bottom up.
Women with birth control are not socially controlled by old values. Why you go on and on about values, I have no idea.
It’s not about values.
LikeLike
Whiskey, it’s about opportunities. The world has irrevocably changed, after birth control. The genie is out.
Why oh why you keep harping back to old days, is academic.
There were previous rules of engagement. Now, there are new rules.
Stop talking about the past. Start theorizing about todays stratagems.
LikeLike
Might be ok to have double identity then you can debate yourself and come to hopefully the best conclusion.
LikeLike
Sure, having a split head is helpful, but it’s most socially acceptable to pray in private.
People who pray in public are public nuicances. The mentally abherant, babbling on the street.
LikeLike
The martyrs all did it lol
LikeLike
Nothing concentrates and enhances magnificent aromas and flavors like a thick, rich, luxuriant bush.
Peter
LikeLike
I was reading on the cracked magazine website how badass the religious warlords of the past were.
Disagree with our crede? We’ll burn you. But not before crushing your nuts with a hammer.
Bad ass, indeed.
The definition of nut-job.
LikeLike
ironrailsironweights, do you have any clue what a troll you are? That every time you repeat your simple idea, you irritate?
Why do you get pleasure from being in the way of other peoples pleasure? From making people step on a tack in the middle of the street?
Fix yourself. You are fucked, and fucking with people.
I dislike your schtik, ironrailsironweights, and by extension, you.
Change, or continue to be disliked.
LikeLike
hugs: I would always rather get a neg than a hug. Most of the time I’d rather let a dude literally shit on my face than hug me. Hugs from the kind of men that give unsolicited hugs make most women very nauseous, and if you’re the kind of man who does that, she’s probably wanted to run for some time.
Re: gunslingergregi– I’m shocked that telling her she “missed her chance” worked for you. If a woman doesn’t figure out a way to take that chance the first time, there’s usually a good reason. Coming from most men, “you missed your chance” sounds like a last-ditch effort to up their value- and it’s usually far too late.
Hey, men! If you’re smart, make jokes. Incorporate phrases like “cock-diesel” into conversation. If you aren’t smart enough to pull that off, you don’t deserve to have goodpussy. Remember, sometimes sex produces children, and women are filters for the next generation. I’m hoping natural selection means my daughter doesn’t have to deal with some idiot she doesn’t know trying to hug her. Thanks!
LikeLike
Joel, we don’t all agree with every little thing the blogger says. In fact, some of us argue with him vehemently about quite a few issues. So you can’t really say what everyone here thinks based on what Roissy says.
If there is a common ground though, it’s that most of us agree that the sheeple need to put up a better resistance to the slaughter. It’s bad enough to have to pay taxes, not get paid what one’s work is worth and then have to go home to a whore or a harpy just because that’s all their is available or that’s what one has been socially programmed to view as ideal.
There was a time, not too long ago, when a man was allowed to be the alpha male at least in his home. It didn’t even preclude his mate being the alpha female. Parents had more say in how their kids turned out, and as far as I can tell from what I’ve observed, our grandparents’ generation was far more easygoing about certain things than our parents’.
You’d think the older generation would me more rigid, not less…but then we got Jesus freaks alienating their families on one side, and super liberals over coddling on the other…and out of those came a generation of pussies who don’t know how to be men, and few left to teach them.
…but people are not statistics…fine…but in the field you have working men who don’t actually want to harm anybody, being told that everything male about them is wrong.
Alphaness in their families and homes is being taken away from parents under the guise of “women’s liberation”. Women don’t see how they’re being undermined, but men do. So if the language around here seems a bit extreme, understand that most of the guys here are in some phase of recovery. They’ve got to learn to deal with reality as it is before they know what they as individuals should do about it.
At the beginning stages, they’re going to seem like the gender empowerment equivalent of a smoker who just quit. So don’t take offense, just present your perspective, and try to learn something through theirs. We’re all learning from each other here…some good things, and some bad things.
We don’t all agree. You don’t have to agree with any of us. Just try to understand.
LikeLike
…and about hugs, I like them. I’ve never been a super touchy-feely person, but I really like hugs in greeting and parting.
Maybe it’s because it’s normal in church life. It’s a hard habit to break. 🙂
LikeLike
Why do you have such selectivity in the first place, when it’s apparently out of the norm for your gender?
Maybe I’m exposing myself a bit tonight, but David the online persona, and the real world person seem to be coming apart at the seems slightly little.
Admittedly, I love my porn stars, but I have to admit that there are some real world women that I’ve somehow managed to find somewhat attractive. Hell, even in sober moments, non-date doesn’t seem bad as a sexual partner. So while online David is a porn-loving fiend, real world David is a porn loving fiend does periodically find petite girls and chubby white girls attractive. Of course, my various fetishes and preferences do play a role, so the chubby white girl with some good makeup, high heels, nails, and some fashion sense may win me over. Of course, everything I say is pointless primarily I stay out of the dating pool by simply not bothering to ask girls out, and we all know the real reasons as to why I’ve chosen that route.
Mind you, I’m rather selective partially because I don’t need men making fun of me for dating an ugly girl, people in general making fun of me for fulfilling the stereotype of the black guy with the trashy white girl, and family wondering why I’m with crummy women.
if you are uncomfortable around women even while you’re not sexually attracted to them, why is that?
With the exception of the hot girls, I’m not uncomfortable around most women. Sometimes a bit nervous, but otherwise, I’m rather normal. I don’t magically start sweating because a large group of co-eds get on the train. I may become pissed since their conversations will drown out my iPod or the sounds of the AC traction motors…
LikeLike
I can relate to “bad game friday”
roissy, I hope you will see this comment and create a future post on it. I met a woman (27) three weeks ago at a club. I ran tight game when we met, then waited a week before I texted her. I got a good response because of the great conversation we had (a lot of “cocky funny” game, passing shit tests with flying colors, etc.) I met her for coffee a few days later, showed up 15 minutes late, she paid, continued to run “cocky funny” while having genuine conversation. I passed every shit test, she turned out to be married, but her interest in me was undeniable. I didn’t get anything (not even a make-out) by this point. So I stopped calling/texting, she started to pursue ten fold. For every 3 texts from her, I replied once. I flaked on our meeting today, which I could tell drove her up the wall. Tonight, I told her to let me know if she was going out, to which she replied, “ok, I like this.” Anyways, I texted her later to let her know I was at a house party in an area and that it was boring.
LikeLike
This is when things start going great. She “lives in that area!” She wants to “come rescue me from the boredom” (its midnight, it was a sex invitation for sure). I told her to “save me!” playfully – looking back on it this was the start of my beta behavior. This is somewhat a recreation of the texts from then on (I deleted them because I was so ashamed of going back into beta mode)… Let this be a lesson to ALL GUYS… DON’T EVER CAVE DURING SHIT TESTS.. EVER EVER EVER! IT DOESN’T MATTER. This is how 3 weeks of work ended in about 7 text messages (I will give my thought process behind the words I used along with the actual words I used):
Her: I will come whenever you want me to. I really like you a lot. I think you are a really good person and I don’t know why but I’ve never felt like this about a man before. I can’t explain it, I think you have insecurities that you cover up with arrogance, but you understand me for who I am.
LikeLike
(my thoughts: OK, she sees through my cocky ‘game’ – but she likes it anyways, she knows what’s going on but she likes it, saying something like ‘I like me too’ would be ideal, but I think she wants me to be vulnerable and that will close the deal)
Me (I cringe as I rewrite this): Everyone needs to be loved. It’s a basic human need to be appreciated, thought about, cared for and to have compassion.
(10 minutes pass)
Me (realizing I just fucked this up big-time): Overall though, I like me too. So are you close?
Her: That sounds more like you. Thats good because we all need someone to care about. I’m close but I’m sick.
Me (knowing I had fucked up and that it was over): Ok whatever, goodbye.
(Silence)
I deleted her number 5 minutes later. Then I proceeded to bitch slap myself in the face. Then, I banged my head on the steering wheel. This is all in an attempt to knock the beta out of me. I can’t say I learned a lesson, because I already knew this all along. Just a message to the guys out there. A very specific example of how 3 weeks of tight game can be undone with a few simple beta comments.
LikeLike
Fuck, the other two still “awaiting moderation” – why can’t i get my post on here? the other one is still awaiting moderation from days ago…
LikeLike
And so you explain, from a womans point of view, why I prefer to come on her face, rather than to hug her.
LikeLike
All this is incoherent and trivial blather, but not nearly as irritating as your cleverly contrived troll personality.
I’d rather hear of your teenage coming of age angst then the intractable persona you persisted in bothering us with befoe.
LikeLike
Brad
Find your torch Brad. We are going a burnin.
LikeLike
I’d rather hear of your teenage coming of age angst then the intractable persona you persisted in bothering us with befoe.
I’ve always been attracted to the somewhat sexualized elements. Hell, I remember downloading photos of Lil Kim online to simply stare at over a 28.8k modem, and being embarrassed by it when friends discovered it. I also remember spending time looking at the women on the bus with acrylic nails even if it was the older thirty or forty-something women with them. And my pre-DSL porn days was basically taken up stories of mind control and bimboization which were essentially tales of turning women physically and sometimes mentally into the hypersexualized women that I found attractive.
Oddly, I spent high school not being attracted to anybody in particular, and being happy about it since I believed that stuff was distractive to doing well in school…
LikeLike
I wrote and lost a comment to you DA, but it’s just as well. I cycle throuth sobriety and incoherence. That’s just my thing. I understand the cycle, and have chosen that cycle. I can say stupid and embarassing dumber than your cousin shit when I’m fuck faced.
Unless you’re actually paying attention. Which you shouldn’t be, because drunks are into their sloppy zone. I had a friend who was a dolt. All of our teenage friends had him as a friend. He was slow. Occasionally, he said something usefull.
Well, that’s me when I’m wasted. Dumb, but you never know.
Anyway, why don’t you think of yourself in terms of Pavlovs dog, and look towards what you might want to make yourself, in order to be ….
Wait, you’ve done that.
Ok, try chi-kung, maybe? Internal awareness and manipulation of your own energies.
LikeLike
I made a post before, that may have been delted in moderation, as it may have been insane.
DA, I have some advice for you, that may be insane.
Did you ever read about Mesmer?
Crazy going downs, huh? Making women have orgams, while a group of men watched, just by hypnosis?
Well, I’m here to tell you about mesmerism. Yes, I am. I’m here to tell you, that you, you too, can mesmerize.
It’s no joke.
I’m not in the business of getting metaphysical about it. But I am in the business of getting historical and persnal and tonight and right now about it.
There is a way to look at someone and freak their whole little freaky beeky leeky deeky – to make someone have a littel acid trip, on account of your eyes.
Discuss.
LikeLike
A fellow vendor was a mesmerist. He’d have never called himself that. As a charismatic, he used to have a congregation. Then he did other things. But he could pull people off the crowd, sit them down, have them look into his eyes, and walk away changed.
I’m not getting metaphyscial about it.
But some of the things I also did make peoples awareness at times acute, which nearly borders on metaphysical. Glances conveying a bunch of info, and being noticed out of a crowd.
Use your own grid of understanding, but much subliminal conversation is rather incredible, and has some incredible implications. Like making you come, or heal, or vomit.
LikeLike
I’m not saying a glance can make you heal, or vomit. Rather, peoples attention and your participating in their attention can.
I was pointing to that attention can happen in a glance. Not that you can look at someone and make them barf.
LikeLike
You ought to study stories about charismatics. They can touch a thigh, and make it warm.
Use your own grid about that, but use the data at hand, and put it into your grid.
And you can be charismatic. Not that good, probably. As that takes intense powers of listening and interpersonal communication through non verbal channels. Or maybe that’s similar to game.
For me, when you listen carefully, to anything, it’s getting closer to silence. Closer to what it is that is listening.
And when what you are listening to, gets closer to the listerner, that’s more than poetic. Poetry relies on the tension of separation. Sometimes its quiter than tension.
And thats what game gets you. Quiet time with your bitch.
LikeLike
Gunslinger
The above is what the problem is when woman go to court and are expected to give accurate accounts of what happened. Poor bastards.
Have you been to court recently or just on another one of your women suck mini rampages?
LikeLike
Blowhard
Hey, I dig Sara’s Osho quote. Dude knows something.
Prepare to be berated!
LikeLike
Sara pretty much a new story every day of the stupidity guys have to put up with. But not because woman are equal.
LikeLike
Gunslingergregi,
same man said “Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.” King James Version, Ecclesiastes 7:28. not contradictory…wise man, he.
LikeLike
Brad, your posts deserve to be delayed indefinitely.
A married woman sneaking around is going to take the path of least resistance when she is whoring around.
This slut doesn’t deserve the mention in game.
Game means you can take on the obstacles on an equal level IMHO. Married women are not worthy of being mentioned in efforts since they are untrustworthy and dishonest sluts.
It’s not a normal playing field when you are evaluating yourself with a slut.
And it’s certainly not worth bragging about. A 27 year old single woman, yeah that can be worth pondering.
LikeLike
on March 8, 2009 at 1:00 am i missed my chance!
“Re: gunslingergregi– I’m shocked that telling her she “missed her chance” worked for you. If a woman doesn’t figure out a way to take that chance the first time, there’s usually a good reason. Coming from most men, “you missed your chance” sounds like a last-ditch effort to up their value- and it’s usually far too late.”
Well like I said as I was walking out with a woman she probably could have thought was better looking than her. But yea of course it would work if you leave with another that obviously took her chance. The woman might be wondering dang I messed up.
Of course what a lot of woman have a hard time understanding as well is that the value of men is not stagnant. They are in one position in life one day and another day are in a different position in life. Woman want to latch on to men that have already made it but the things is at the point he made it, does he really need them at that point? The point he could have maybe used their help was in the beginning and they could have latched on then and helped him achieve. After having become successful he doesn’t need the same group from before, he wants better. Such a viscious planet we live on.
LikeLike
“on March 8, 2009 at 3:19 am Brad
I can relate to “bad game friday”
roissy, I hope you will see this comment and create a future post on it. I met a woman (27) three weeks ago at a club. I ran tight game when we met, then waited a week before I texted her. I got a good response because of the great conversation we had (a lot of “cocky funny” game, passing shit tests with flying colors, etc.) I met her for coffee a few days later, showed up 15 minutes late, she paid, continued to run “cocky funny” while having genuine conversation. I passed every shit test, she turned out to be married, but her interest in me was undeniable. ”
LOL Once you found out she was married you didn’t need to run any game on her. She wanted to have sex with you. What future do you see with this person? Why would you think you would have to work at this? Take her to a shitty motel and do the deed if that is your moral level. You achieved no great conquest. She was already conquered by another man before.
LikeLike
Gunslingergregi, one word Bravo!
There’s no reason to be patting yourself on the back when you fool around with some married whore.
To pretend that she will find your cock special is ludicrous. A married whore will find cock because that’s what they do.
They go through the motions of “playing the game” as if it really matters. It doesn’t.
She could just as easily pick up some unemployed guy in the ghetto and land up having sex in an SUV.
And in fact, for all you know Brad, she’s already doing that. On a regular basis.
LikeLike
gunslinger
Sara pretty much a new story every day of the stupidity guys have to put up with.
But not because woman are equal.
This makes sense?
LikeLike
What does it mean when a man asks you to breakfast? Believe it or not roissy, I got asked out to breakfast last night. A man I work with occasionally (six foot tall plus, built, african-american, very handsome, boxer and wrestler among other things, and quite masculine, great smile, and at LEAST 10 years younger) asked me out. According to you, roissy, and most of your readers who think I must be an overweight, femi-nazi this is an impossibility.
LikeLike
Sara I
He’s a black dude and they like to have access to pud at different times of the day. You are his breakfast “early bird” special.
He’s thinking of putting you in his rotation.
Let us know if you ever make the regular Saturday nights.
LikeLike
Yeah, us black dudes know white women can’t/don’t make grits n’ gravy. We take cougars out for a early testdrive only bc there’s no way she’s gonna meet my momma
LikeLike
lol Bro Nation, Firepower
Sara I think white men are pretty much past the point where they care if you go out with the (six foot tall plus, built, african-american, very handsome, boxer and wrestler among other things, and quite masculine, great smile, and at LEAST 10 years younger).
Nice try at getting a rise.
LikeLike
Sara,
Maybe he was implying that he wanted to spend the night with you?
LikeLike
nah he jes wants a place to crash until the heat dies down. that, an breakfast
LikeLike
My Neg Rules
1) Never Neg too early in the morning, most neg worthy girls have been up with the local biker gang all night and struggle enough just draging themselves into work before noon. Negs dont work well when the target is in a “fragile” state.
2) Get eye contact before the neg
3) Use the internal competitiveness of the set to “alt-neg” the target – Why not compliment or be friendly to the “6” in the set, the target will feel negged by the comparitive lack of attention without you doing anything
LikeLike
Joel
I think that Beta seeking to gain the Moral highground over alphas is intellectually dishonest for a multitude of reasons, But the most important reason is that God created alphas for a reason
1) Up until only a few generations ago women died in childbirth all the time.
So its clearly better for any existing kids (and the survival of the species) if the father get a replacement in off the warm-up bench (re-marry) as quickly as possible.
2) Second sons, betas and potential trouble makers often got no land thru inheritance and were often (with varying degrees of subtly) encouraged to leave communities and had to start their own frontier settlements.
This left a suprlus of woman for the alphas to look after, so they had to be strong leaders.
LikeLike
Or give the 6 a stack of 100’s and walk away like nothing happened. Continue to drink your drink. Got to be a good Alt Neg
LikeLike
Being Alpha/good with women does not necessitate being a bad person…although it can end up that way. A lot of assholes are successful with meeting women and so it becomes a strategy and part of game. But it’s not necessary if you’re willing to accept a bit of a lower success rate.
IMO, it’s a lot more about general confidence and composure with women and really, truly believing that you are a person of high value in the dating market. Embracing your masculinity as well and not letting yourself become whipped. Those things don’t make you a bad person.
There are some of us though who don’t care to center our lives around going out to bars and sleeping with as many women as possible…but obviously when we do go out we want to pull really good women.
LikeLike
“BasilRansom
Gunslingergregi,
same man said “Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.” King James Version, Ecclesiastes 7:28. not contradictory…wise man, he.”
Answer after thinking about it is that a woman in love with her man will pretty much do anything he asks of her whether it is moral/immoral/good/bad. That is why the man needs to be careful with what he asks of his woman. Other than that, that is a hardcore line.
Would be interesting to try it out:
Ask 1 million married guys would they have sex with a woman for 10 million dollars and not tell their spouse.
Ask 1 million married woman if they would have sex with a guy for 10 million dollars and not tell their spouse.
Interesting to see who would say no.
LikeLike
Sarah,
That’s a pretty clever line, about the breakfast. That shows real Game. Other good lines I have heard such fellows use include “Let’s go have some coffee.”
But, really, go for it. Keep us posted on your conquest.
Don’t forget, you could walk into any number of bars in some parts of any city and get picked up without much work by similar men. It doesn’t require much skill or physical attraction on your part. Like I said before about some girl bragging on her facebook page about how many guys she has had, that would be like some guy bragging about how often he jerks off.
It is different situation for men. That’s why they study Game and respect success.
LikeLike
According to you, roissy, and most of your readers who think I must be an overweight, femi-nazi this is an impossibility.
I dunno, just from casual observation it seems like a fairly large number of black guys are willing to date aging, overweight beasts just because they’re white. Therefore your admission leads me to suspect that there is a fairly high likelihood that you are an aging, overweight beast.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
LikeLike
I just spent the last twenty minutes counting my girlfriends breasts (she has one and one), and am reading over these comments, while the crabby-patty breakfast is being prepared. Too many good posts to laud, so I’ll laud just this one.
Yup. If you don’t want me when I’m poor, you don’t deserve me when I’m rich.
LikeLike
Oh, and the converse. Sticking it out through harsh times earns some loyalty.
LikeLike
—I dunno, just from casual observation it seems like a fairly large number of black guys are willing to date aging, overweight beasts just because they’re white. Therefore your admission leads me to suspect that there is a fairly high likelihood that you are an aging, overweight beast.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that…—-
I’m willing to bet that old, and fat Sara can makes grits and gravy just like Firepower’s mammy did.
LikeLike
That sounds like a good thing to do with my life when I am done with this part. Was going to spend a year or so laying on titties. Now I can add counting breasts to change it up a little. You Sir are a genious.
LikeLike
What does it mean when a man asks you to breakfast? Believe it or not roissy, I got asked out to breakfast last night. A man I work with occasionally (six foot tall plus, built, african-american, very handsome, boxer and wrestler among other things, and quite masculine, great smile, and at LEAST 10 years younger) asked me out. According to you, roissy, and most of your readers who think I must be an overweight, femi-nazi this is an impossibility.
It means that you remind him of Susan Crain Bakos:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/black-men-white-women/
LikeLike
“She was already conquered by another man before.”
Hate to break it to you but unless you’re fucking virgins…
LikeLike
Old woman – What does it mean when a man asks you to breakfast? Believe it or not roissy, I got asked out to breakfast last night. A man I work with occasionally (six foot tall plus, built, african-american….
It means he already knows your reputation.
LikeLike
Williard says, “It means he already knows your reputation.”
…or he made an assumption based on averages or previous success with a certain “type”…though sometimes this is only wishful thinking.
A couple of nights ago, I was out drinking with some friends for the traditional first warm night thing. Some guys approached our group and figured out that I was the “cool female friend”. The other two women in the group were college girls. Most of the guys in the group that approached us were 27+.
Though I know for a fact that the other girls are easier (because I know them) but the zeroed in on me even though I’m not as pretty as either of them in conventional terms. So I knew why they were talking to me, and gave the eye signal to one of my male friends to pretend I’m his bitch. He did, and I was saved. (This by the way, is one of the side benefits of having attractive male friends.)
Again, my logic failed to come up with any kind of a rational reason anyone would assume that I was an easy target. I was dressed quite modestly, and at the moment of the approach, in “teacher mode” posture explaining something about the importance of keeping one’s knees flexible while dancing, to the girls. So my old lady face was on. I wasn’t wearing any makeup (as usual).
There’s nothing rational about it. Apparently guys are overly hard on themselves about their own attractiveness, and in moments of insecurity, prey on the “weak and the sick”. In PUA terms, that would probably mean, “the fat and the old”. At least a couple of them would have had a chance with the college girls.
Maybe they were trying to do Max’s “alt-neg”, and went too far, because after awhile, the girls left. I was stuck clinging to my friend until he was ready to leave. It seemed like the other guys were suspicious because we weren’t looking coupley enough, and waiting for a sign.
…and this is not about bragging. I do look young for my age, and take care of myself, so it’s nice that guys notice. The problem is that it’s not always because they recognize that I’ve done a good job with myself, or are legitimately attracted to me. Sometimes I’m perceived as a just “good enough” easy target…and that’s kind of scary because an explicit no is often met with anger…like I’m not allowed to have any self respect just because I’m not a 10 or something. Sucks.
LikeLike
On a totally random note, if you want to see beta pr0n, check out this site:
http://www.hisfirstthreesome.com
The fantasy is two hot girls go out trolling to find a lucky loser to have a threesome with. The ridiculously anti-reality, anti-game picture captions have to be seen to be believed.
The dude who subscribes to this isn’t even *pretending* to be alpha. He’s just crossing his fingers hoping that it’s his lucky beta day.
In my mind’s eye I can see see hipsters paying for a subscription by reaching into their messenger bags to remove their hemp-cloth wallets.
LikeLike
Max from Australia
My Neg Rules
1) Never Neg too early in the morning, most neg worthy girls have been up with the local biker gang all night and struggle enough just draging themselves into work before noon. Negs dont work well when the target is in a “fragile” state.
No girl hanging out in a local biker bar is worth a neg. Not worth a spoken letter out of your mouth.
She has dictated her near-future being is worthless.
joel
Like I said before about some girl bragging on her facebook page about how many guys she has had, that would be like some guy bragging about how often he jerks off.
It is different situation for men. That’s why they study Game and respect success.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
So true, so true…
LikeLike
March 9, 2009 at 8:49 am Kthulah
That comment just about said it all. “Not as pretty in the conventional term” = ugly… Hysterical stuff. I’m not fat, just big boned!
LikeLike
Few women not of largely European or Asian ancestry are considered by most men here as “pretty in a conventional sense.”
I can’t think of any really African-looking girls who would qualify under that rubric.
Nevertheless, the world continues to have Africans, both within and outside the continent, so they are obviously not doing too bad for themselves, your approval notwithstanding.
LikeLike
Nevertheless, the world continues to have Africans, both within and outside the continent, so they are obviously not doing too bad for themselves
Yea, because existence = not doing too bad. Gaza has a massive birth rate, so they must been doing even better.
LikeLike
Hey, reproductive fitness is Darwin’s rule, not mine, sucka.
LikeLike
I wouldn’t brag about the overpopulation and starvation of my people…
It’s a tragic, unnecessary burden – not something to be proud of.
LikeLike
Who are “my people,” Seeking?
Fact of the matter is that most of the world has always lived, and died, according to the laws of Darwin and Malthus.
That white Westerners like to exempt themselves from these laws is what creates all this gender drama you’re experiencing now.
Do you think the Palestinians have a hard time keeping their women from whoring around on them?
LikeLike
So the only way to improve gender relations is return to the poverty and subsistence living of Africa? That’s an original argument.
LikeLike
Three options exist:
1. Periodic die-offs brought on by the population outstripping its ability to feed itself (third world model)
2. Extreme degree of sexual continence/repression of the losers in the sexual marketplace, with the winners reproducing feverishly (Victorian England, much of the Arab world.)
3. Free access to birth control, with the attendant feminist/socialist leanings brought on by de-coupling sex from reproduction and family formation. (obviously, the current Western model.)
pick yer poison, pardner.
The only reason the 1950s family model was such a golden age was that it represented a transitional period, from Victorian-inspired strict sexual mores to the current low-fertility, soft-polygamy model, coupled with insanely inexpensive land.
It took a couple of generations for everyone to wake up and smell the shifted balance-of-power, and the interim period inflated both the wallet and the ego of your average beta guy.
Those days are not coming back.
LikeLike
The FLDS are a fairly good representation of Category #2, too. So are a lot of the ultra-fundamentalist Protestants and trad Catholics.
Their more mainstream co-religionist cousins have tried to stick with the 1950s model, but it’s inherently unstable without constant access to cheap land *and* a willingness to enforce pro-natalist policies, even against individual preferences.
Their birth rates are tumbling like a rock.
Of course this means that now, in the case of the Mormons, they’ve got Mormon Feminists, Gay Mormons, and a whole motley assemblage of “Jack-Mormons” and bitter “Ex-Mormons” under their circus tent.
I predict these anti-patriarchal influences will become more important as their more traditional Breeder-Mormon compatriots recede from power.
LikeLike
This is a very interesting discussion. A few thoughts, if I may.
At some point, White folks-and let’s be honest here, WHITE MALES-are gonna have to squarely face a brutal fact:
They’re not able to convince enough White Women to drop their panties and have babies.
The numbers in this regard are all in: Russia, the EU’s “Big Three”, Spain, Italy, Canada, and yes, even in the USA, White birth rates are falling. In many of the aforementioned countries, below replacement levels.
While its certainly a legit concern when it comes to immigration (legal & illegal) and so on, at the end of the day, one thing stands out in sharp comparison to other non-White ethnic groups:
The Men of said groups don’t seem to have much problem getting nookie from their Women, nor getting their Women to pop out babies.
For example, despite the fact that Black Women in America get more abortions than anyone else, they *still* outbreed White Women. The same can be said for Hispanic Women, even moreso, since they don’t seem to have as many abortions, nor do not seem to use as much birth control.
When societies such as Putin-era Russia and Howard-era Australia basically have programs that *pay White Women to have babies*, one can only surmise that there is more than meets the eye when it comes to just how White Men & Women get on w/each other.
Moreover, if we’re gonna play Darwin’s Game, we then must keep one central point in mind: the future belongs to those who show up for it. By that measure, it would seem that my White Brothers have some ‘splainin’ to do.
So, with that said…
What’s up with that fellas?
Comment & reply, holla.
The Obsidian
LikeLike
I’ve done some thinking about the comon reason for a drop in birthrates virtually all developed countires, and some no-so-developed ones. This is what sticks out for me: class mobility.
Children are expensive, and an opportunity cost. And regardless of race, peole reproduce more when they perceive their social position to be so secure that nothign can knock them down, or so low, they have nothing t olose by reproducing.
People whose social status is secure at the top (celebrities, wealthy people) have lots of kids. I’ve dated a number of au pairs, some of whom worked for insanely rich families from DC to the Boston area. Four kids per pampered wife is the norm.
On the same note, people who have no realistic hope of moving up in class (or fear of dropping lower, since they are as low as they can be) have lots of kids too. See Arkansas trailer park, see black urban ghetto.
It’s the middle class that has a lot to lose by having lots of children, at least in their perception. And expenses, such as type of neighborhood they live in and the neighborhood schools. (the white lower middle classes have their habitats virtually wiped out by nondiscrimination laws in some parts of the country.) Black middle class families have very few kids as well.
All of this is in the non-religious context. Devoutly religious comunities have lots of children, regardless of race or class position, but that is a different story all together.
As far as people in Africa or Gaza reproducing in huge numbers…. it’s all stimulated by Western aid. Hospitals, sanitation, food, medicine, etc. Whether or not this is sustainable in the long run, is to be seen.
LikeLike
Obsidian, PA
Obsidian, you’re only partially right. Fertility stats are dropping like a stone across virtually the entire world. Definitely true in the developed world (Europe, Japan, etc) but also in poor- and middle-income countries. Puerto Rico is at replacement, as is Morocco.
Even in sub-Saharan Africa the rates are a fraction of what they used to be. Check out Zambia’s fertility stats, for example. Only in unreconstructed hellholes with high murder and death rates are they still high (Somalia, Yemen, etc.).
PA, you’re right about the middle-class and religious angle. Didn’t know about the rich, though, so that’s interesting. Most of the decamillionaires that I know have only two kids.
I’m curious as to what will happen in a few generations when all we have left are the decendents of Mormons, Hasidic Jews, Wahhabists, etc. Perhaps this will bring about the changes in law that have been discussed here before?
LikeLike
In many ways, post-WW2 Poland is a good illustration of the role of class mobility in suppressing birth rates. In 1945 after the war, population transfers, and redrawing of borders, Poland was a homogeneous nation of about 22 million. Through difficult post-war years, including repressive Stalinism through 1956, Poland’s population grew rapidly. By early 1970s, Poland’s population was grew to 38 million.
During the 1970s, through a Cold War thaw and the Gierek regime that tried to bring a higher standard of living through binge-borrowing of Western money, the birthrates slowed considerably. This was also correlated with a massive rural-to-urban shifts.
But, with the Solidarity-era strikes and the 1982-83 Maritial Law the economic situation crashed. I remember this personally — literally nothing was in stores and everyone relied on getting food from their families out in the country, while dodging military checkpoints that confiscated whatever you had, and likely also beat you up or arrested you for smuggling contraband.
All those pretty Polish aupairs, all these young Polish people you now see everywhere in the otherwise ageing Europe? They were all born during the short but impressive baby boom of the early 80s.
After Communism ended in 1989, Polish birthrates fell to European levels. But all may not be bad: contrary to parttern in a way, the recent few years have also seen a spike in Polish births, brobably stimulated by the money sent by family members working seasonally in western Europe.
LikeLike
At some point, White folks-and let’s be honest here, WHITE MALES-are gonna have to squarely face a brutal fact:
They’re not able to convince enough White Women to drop their panties and have babies.
…
What’s up with that fellas?
Why are you asking the guys? Ultimately it is up to the women whether or not to bear the children. Even if you forcibly impregnate her, she can easily pull the plug on it. Women in the other groups don’t have a choice about it.
LikeLike
PA,
Your analysis raises some good questions, no doubt. However, your parting shot about Gaza & Africa has a few holes in it. For example, the very things you mentioned that enables those people to reproduce, are also in abundance in most of the EU, Canada and even the USA-healthcare, and so on.
I don’t have access to actual numbers, and perhaps you do, but it would not surprise me if Black middle class families were larger than their White counterparts.
How does one explain France? Germany? The UK? Spain? Italy? Russia? These are among the lowest White birthrates, and while what you say certainly can have merit, still, there’s something to be said for the apparent fact that for whatever reason, White guys have a tougher time getting White Women to drop the drawers.
Comments?
O
LikeLike
I think it is actually TV/computer once it is brought into the picture the time spent together goes way down for families. HOw many TV’s/Comps in Yemen/Somalia. Probably very few. The men and woman don’t get brainwashed by mass media and they do what real human beings who are not manipulated do they f and have kids.
LikeLike
Wrong, Lurker. As I’ve noted earlier, African American Women get more abortions, by a wide margin, than anyone else in the country. Look it up.
And yet, taken together as a group, Black Women outbreed White Women. True, Women, all Women, ultimately decide whether that pregnancy comes to term or not. Still, the fact remains that one is hardpressed to walk into any barbershop in Black America and hear the kinds of handwringing convos that take place in venues like this one, which is made up of, in the main, White Males.
I’m suggesting that at some point, White guys are gonna have to take a look in the miror, because of guys of other backgrounds, living in the same country, simply don’t seem to have the same problems in this area.
Again, I ask my White Brothers: wassau wit dat?
Comments?
O
LikeLike
White guys have a tougher time getting White Women to drop the drawers.
O, I’m not sure if you intend that as a taunt or not, but I doubt this is literally true. Thousands of girls had dropped their drawers for Roissy, but none (to our knowledge) had bore him a child.
From what I’ve read elsewhere, overall black birthrates in the US are slightly above replacement, and overall white birthrates in the US are slightly under reoplacement — the numbers are not that much different.
And my memory may be off, but I remember reading that dual-parent middle class balck families have on average just slightly under two kids. Of the middle class black people I know (work, socially) none hav emore than two kids.
France, Germany — all seem to fit my theory that middle class peole aren’t secure in their social status. Russia: abortions and alcoholism.
What woudl you say about Iran or Japan? Just curious about your thoughts on these very dissimilar low-birth societies.
LikeLike
Gunslinger,
While I would agree w/you on the Somalia piece, when it comes to Yemen, it is quite well known that most if not all Arab countries are wired w/satellite dishes and the like (tech). So, despite getting steady streams of Western pop culture, the Men of said cultures still are able to get nookie from their Women and have em popping out babies.
White guys cannot say the same thing, and I submit the usual suspects ain’t gonna cut it.
Maybe Game has much more importance than we initially realized, hmm?
Comments?
O
LikeLike
Obsidian,
I’m kind of surprised that – as a generally level-headed commenter – you’re deliberately trying to provoke people with race baiting. But so be it.
Dropping drawers does not equal having kids. More importantly, given the same level of fucking, responsible citizens in rich countries will have fewer kids than low-lifes in poor countries.
The rich/poor is obvious because of the availability and affordability of contraception/birth control.
The responsible/irresponsible because of the costs of having a kid. If I got a girl pregnant, or if most of my friends did, we’d either pay for the abortion of more likely raise the kid. Because the cost of an unwanted pregnancy is high, it’s less likely to happen.
If I was some loser low-life with nothing to offer my baby-mom’s financially, (and therefore nothing to lose), then I wouldn’t really care who I impregnated.
So there, your race baiting got you the controversy you wanted. You can rightfully brag that because your brothas are poorer – morally and financially – than their white counterparts, they will have more babies. Babies raised in broken homes more likely to grow up in shitty government housing, go to shitty schools, get involved in crime, end up in jail, and father more fucked up babies like themselves.
LikeLike
While I would agree w/you on the Somalia piece, when it comes to Yemen, it is quite well known that most if not all Arab countries are wired w/satellite dishes and the like (tech). So, despite getting steady streams of Western pop culture, the Men of said cultures still are able to get nookie from their Women and have em popping out babies.
Actually in Arab countries, with very traditional families where pre-marital sex can be punishable by death and marriage requires money, most young men aren’t getting ANY pussy.
Sorry homey, try again.
LikeLike
PA,
My motivations in posing the question we’re taking up now, was born out of the constant harping on the part of *some* White guys here about Black Men and the kinds of Women they obstensibly keep company with. It seems that they can’t just accept the fact that these guys are getting nookie and wish them well; they have to go to great lengths to denigrate the Women they’re with and so on (as if Black Men have the corner on dating ugly and/or fat chicks-merely driving by any Walmart in Lilly White America will put that notion to bed).
That, along with what I consider to be hyper obsessions over a Woman’s age and so on, led me to pose a simple question, based on easily observable data (like Yogi Berra said, if you look around, you’ll see a lot)-accross the Eurosphere, White folks ain’t having babies, at least not anywhere near non Whites.
And I’m thinking part of the reason for that is because White guys aren’t making a compelling enough case for it. Hey, like Roissy, mybe a lot of White guys simply don’t want kids, that’s cool. But there’s a there, there, if you follow my point. And I thought to explore that question.
As for Black middle class families, all the ones I’ve known-and I think it fair to say that I know at least as many as you do, w/all due respect-i can only count a handful w/two kids or less. The vast majority of them have three kids or more, compared to their White counterparts, who tend to stick to the two kid maximum deal. Go figure.
As for Iran and Japan, very interesting cases you make there. From an American Skin Game pov, both would be considered Honorary Whites, and in many ways, especially on the Japanese side, I would posit there’s something up w/the males of said society as to why their birthrates are so low. Not entirely sure why that is on the Iranian side though.
I will say this, though: if Octomom looked more like a Black Woman than a White one, there’d be hell to pay, and we all know it.
Holla back
The Obsidian
LikeLike
> Actually in Arab countries, with very traditional families where pre-marital sex can be punishable by death and marriage requires money, most young men aren’t getting ANY pussy.
Maybe… but I’m sure they’re getting *ass* 😉
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
Yes, I concede your point wrt certain cultural mores in the ME wrt marriage etc. Moreover, its true, most Arab guys aint getting laid, but the same thing can be said of ANY males ANYWHERE. EvoPsych gives clear reasoning on this point, yes?
So, the issue aint who among the male population in any given country is or is not getting laid; the issue here, is WHY the White World, birthrates are and have been, fallin like a stone? And while I do think much of the oft-repeated causes can and do play a role, I’m taking a different tack-
Perhaps it might be, because a lot of White guys have lost their mojo.
Comments?
O
LikeLike
Obsid it is funny your still asking questions of people when you didn’t have the balls to face up to your own personnal demons. Everything you bring up is about black and white. That is not all there is to life dude. There is also money and love and finding a good woman and peace with oneself.
LikeLike
‘O’
Why would mojo = making babies anywhere except with the poor and the slums? You’re being obtuse and offensive to compensate for the insecurity of your people’s social conditions. If you had stats on who was getting LAID more – black men or white men – you’d have a point. But where do you get birth rates and sex correlating?
Let me ask it differently to make it easier for you. Do you think there is a correlation between # of partners and # of babies? Isn’t it likely to be an inverse correlation? That guys who can get pussy at will wouldn’t bother with the commitments of marriage and babies while the guys who can only get pussy through conventional means would be more likely to have babies?
Holla back with comments.
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
Let me also note a very simple premise: if we’re gonna do the Darwin thing, the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS is making sure *your* genes gets sent into the future, w/as many willing (or even unwilling) Females as possible. By that measure, Black folks’ future seems assured. We cannt be so sure of Whites.
Comments?
O
LikeLike
Wrong, Lurker. As I’ve noted earlier, African American Women get more abortions, by a wide margin, than anyone else in the country. Look it up.
I don’t doubt that. Who is going to have more abortions? The neighborhood crackwhore with the blind baby or the good girl from the middle class family?
And yet if both of them get pregnant out of wedlock, which one is more likely to get an abortion? The good girl from the middle class family (assuming she isn’t super religious) is almost GUARANTEED to get one. The crackwhore? Well just look at the statistics for % of bastard black babies.
LikeLike
> Perhaps it might be, because a lot of White guys have lost their mojo.
Then, by extension, all the Japanese, South Koreans, Brazilians, Arabs, Indians, and Zambians have also lost their mojo.
It may be true (Lord knows Western feminism has spread like a cancer along with the good Western inventions like antibiotics and Bach), but I don’t think you can restrict it to whites.
I say this as someone who is neither white nor black.
LikeLike
Cool, Bro Nation!
He’s thinking of putting you in his rotation
I’ll keep that in mind. One look at him, and I thought he must have a few in rotation already.. LOL
Chloe
Maybe he was implying that he wanted to spend the night with you?
I don’t think we’re quite at that point. At least I am not; but who knows what lurks in the minds of men? 😀 So far he is doing a lot for me that is not in his “job description”.
Willard
It means he already knows your reputation.
My reputation is being hard to get. I don’t think men really like that in general unless they’re looking to get married. He was the one I mentioned to that I don’t want to get married again, so maybe he thinks I’m easy.
I’m willing to bet that old, and fat Sara can makes grits and gravy just like Firepower’s mammy did.
I wish!
Firepower
nah he jes wants a place to crash until the heat dies down.
that, an breakfast
Could be! I live close and he lives far away from work. Makes sense actually, only I was hoping he’d buy.
Thanks for the varied comments and opinions. It lets me know that one really cannot assume for one minute what is going on in anyones mind.
LikeLike
‘O’
Let me also note a very simple premise: if we’re gonna do the Darwin thing, the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS is making sure *your* genes gets sent into the future, w/as many willing (or even unwilling) Females as possible. By that measure, Black folks’ future seems assured. We cannt be so sure of Whites.
Well first you were talking about ‘mojo’, now you’re talking about Darwin. You gotta pick one or the other brotha.
And as for Darwin, the goal isn’t as many babies as possible. The goal is too survive. Any birth rate above the replacement rate means you’ve already succeeded.
Without Western aid or free trade – in totally closed societies – who’s more likely to starve themselves out of existence?
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
Your assumptions are flawed, because most crackhead females don’t get abortions; they don’t have the presence of mind to do so. What we’re talking about are working class and moderate to upper middle class Black females getting the abortions. Again, look if up.
And once again: if we’re gonna do the EP for real, it all comes down to one thing and one thing only:
Making sure your genes gets sent into the future. Why? Because the future belongs to those who show up for it.
As MacDonald noted in his recent piece, there is something inherent in Anglo-culture that inclines one, particularly its Males, towards suicide.
Comments?
O
LikeLike
I really think most of the Arab world will transition from Cat 2 to Cat 3, if their relative prosperity continues. Same for a lot of Southeast Asian countries.
The fact is that it pays to curtail a woman’s reproductive abilities, both by allowing both parents considerably more leisure, and by improving opportunities for the children already existing in a family.
And then it doesn’t take long to see that having ANY children is much, much, more expensive and difficult than opting out of that game altogether; eventually this reality always wins out against the rather weak social pressure to have children.
Barring baby lust on a woman’s part, nothing, nothing, nothing stops this downward spiral.
Which makes me wonder if we are starting to select for Baby Lust instead of plain lust; Roissy’s lust can be easily satisfied at no real cost to him, just as David Alexander’s can. Both of these guys are novelties– interesting dead ends, but dead ends nonetheless, no?
My kind of lust demands BABIES. I’ve known this since I was a girl.
As they say, evolution is not a spectator sport. 😉
LikeLike
O: can you give a link to the piece you’re referencing? Are you talking about Heather MacDonald?
I always assumed that the Finns had the highest suicide rate.
LikeLike
> My kind of lust demands BABIES.
LOL. Mine, too, though I’m a man interested in building an empire and dynasty. It’s old school, I know, but it’s what I am.
LikeLike
What we’re talking about are working class and moderate to upper middle class Black females getting the abortions. Again, look if up.
I don’t believe you have ever seen abortion statistics categorized by both race and income. Now you’re just making stuff up.
And again, for the simple minded, Darwinism doesn’t advocate having as many kids as possible. There’s an upper limit. Maybe you’re imagining some future world where whites have been bred out of existence and blacks are in some utopian paradise of wealth. Does that really seem likely?
I know some of the other mean commenters made you feel bad. Let it go. Trying to passively-aggressively throw out an insult but then belatedly wrapping it in poorly-understood science in an effort for respectability… it just doesn’t work the way you want it to.
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
Survival means nothing without reproduction, yes? And trust me, all the aid could fall away from Africa right now, and you can bet your bottom dollah there’ll be Africans around 50 years from now. True, maybe a significant fewer in numbers, but there nonetheless.
There has to be something more at work as to why birthrates are so very low in the eurosphere. I’m suggesting that perhaps it may have to do with the relative weakness of White Males overall.
Comments?
Oh, and have you seen MacDonalds’ most recent piece on this topic?
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
Survival means nothing without reproduction, yes? And trust me, all the aid could fall away from Africa right now, and you can bet your bottom dollah there’ll be Africans around 50 years from now. True, maybe a significant fewer in numbers, but there nonetheless.
There has to be something more at work as to why birthrates are so very low in the eurosphere. I’m suggesting that perhaps it may have to do with the relative weakness of White Males overall.
Comments?
Oh, and have you seen MacDonalds’ most recent piece on this topic?
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Obsidian –
So you’re arguing there is a correlation between mojo and reproduction?
Or you’re agreeing that low birth rates have nothing to do with mojo? Well if that’s the case, what’s more likely? That blacks are responsibly thinking of the future by having more babies than they can afford and damning them to a life of poverty? Or that whites are responsibly thinking of their children’s future and having only as many babies as they can afford?
LikeLike
I didn’t think Darwin “advocated” much of anything. And differential birthrates are a driver behind evolution, right? It’s not just about surviving long enough to (barely) replace yourself.
Even something as small as Population A having two children apiece while Population B has three, makes a difference long-term.
LikeLike
Even something as small as Population A having two children apiece while Population B has three, makes a difference long-term.
If, on average, all two (or three) children will survive, and assuming equal income for both populations, then Population A will do much better over the long-term than Population B.
LikeLike
“JAM
> My kind of lust demands BABIES.
LOL. Mine, too, though I’m a man interested in building an empire and dynasty. It’s old school, I know, but it’s what I am.”
Hell yea.
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
Again: most Black folks are in the middle class, or at the least, strong working class; a minority, albeit sizable, are among the lower/underclass. Look it up.
What I’m saying is, perhaps one of the reasons why birthrates have fallen off in the Eurosphere, is because of the mass emasculation of White Males. There, I’ve said it. And I submit that until or unless this is addressed squarely, things on this front will not change. The dropping birthrates will continue.
Comments? And, have you read MacDonald’s most recent piece on this issue?
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Really, it depends on what you mean by “doing much better,” doesn’t it?
LikeLike
Obsidian –
But where’s the link between emasculation and fewer kids? Clearly these ’emasculated men’ are getting married. If anything, they’re more likely to get married than the ‘alpha’ men. And all these SWPL married couples have kids.
So what are you suggesting? Clearly being emasculated doesn’t stop them from getting married. Are you suggesting that they want to have MORE kids, but their pants-wearing wives won’t LET them? Usually it’s the opposite – the guy wants fewer kids.
In your poor attempt to toss out cultural insults, you forgot to pick one that made sense. If you want to argue that the West is emasculated… well Roissy does that every single day, so you’re hardly being controversial. You were trying to be controversial by linking that emasculation to birth rates, and then somehow predicting that the future belongs to blacks because of it.
LikeLike
I thought the rates had bottomed out a few years back, and had improved slightly over the last few years.
But I agree that we’ll probably never see a white birthrate above 2.5 again– but then, I also really thought we’d never see gas below 4 bucks a gallon again.
It’s easy to project a future based on our immediate externals, but often wrong.
LikeLike
omw – How would you define it? I’d say – after survival, which we assumed to be constant for both A and B – it’s financial stability? That and morals. Which group is doing better there?
LikeLike
OMW,
Fair enough, let’s agree on your point on what Darwin himself actually did or did not advocate. Fine.
But the point remains: the future belongs to those who show up for it, yes? In pure Evo terms, if you make certain your genes go forth into the future, you cease to exist. You’ve reached an Evolutionary Dead End. Period.
As MacDonald notes in his recent essay, there is something inherent in Anglo culture that leads invariably to its members, and particularly its Males, towards a form of suicide; in this case, not being able to shake their Women loose of Feminist Lobby groupthink, assume the position, and birth the next generation of White folks in above replacement numbers. Something is most certainly wrong. And its my view that that “something” falls into the pretty lies area of discourse. Simply put, White guys aren’t able to convince enough White Women to drop their drawers-and let me say here, that while I agree w/Seeking Alpha that merely dropping drawers don’t automatically result in babies, NOT dropping drawers all but guarantees NOT having babies.
Again: non White Males, most notably Black, Hispanic, and even some Arab, don’t seem to have the same problems in this regard. Only certain types of Asians share this peculiar problem, and their own trials and tribulations have been duly noted.
Comments?
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Obsidian –
As for MacDonald – that’s implying a level of cultural cohesion that doesn’t exist. No man, white, black hispanic, or otherwise, has babies for the good for the race. He does it (or doesn’t do it) for himself.
If you’re implying that whites don’t have more babies because of some sort of sublimated desire for self-genocide, then that also implies that blacks are having more babies because of a subconscious desire to benefit their race. Well considering the black-on-black murder rates – that’s probably not correct, now, is it?
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
I think in your haste to attempt to discredit the Man instead of the Argument, you make a few slipshod mistakes of your own. I never said that the future belonged to Black folks or any other group. I simply said that the future belongs to those who show up for it. In pure Evo terms-and now I’m speaking to your false argument wrt marriage-the goal is to put your genes into the future. Period. Marriage has absolutely no role to play in that whatsoever. It is irrelevant.
Moreover, marital rates have also been plummeting like a stone in the Eurosphere, and the USA, perhaps the last holdout in Western White terms, is finally beginning to yield in this regard. White folks are marrying less, and this trend seems to be picking up steam, not slowing down.
So I don’t see the point in discussing marital rates, as they have nothing to do wit my argument. My point again, is that perhaps there might be something to be said for the perception, real or imagined, of White Males simply not having the Right Stuff that compels choic females to want to carry and bring forth their seed. Its that simple.
Unless you have a more compelling argument as to why boh marital rates and birthrates have been on a steep and steady decline throughout the Eurosphere, that is…?
And again-have you read MacDonald’s piece on this issue? Its in the Occidental Quarterly, I think its called.
Holla back
The Obsidian
LikeLike
There’s definitely a subset of white guys who have a hard time projecting that Father Knows Best vibe, even long past the age where they ought to have both acquired the swagger and learnt to back it up.
Game is an attempt to remedy this deficiency, artificial as it may be.
I blame it on the kinds of rather effete occupations that more and more white guys are in; when’s the last time you actually met a farmer?
Now THERE is a man; even if he has no game, he is a man.
A cubicle-farmer has to more consciously set out to cultivate a sense of manhood. It’s easier to play videogames, though.
And women won’t sever their connections and allegiances to the outside world unless their faith in their men is unshakeable.
And, as long as she refuses to forsake all others, the two of them will remain locked in a stalemate as the world passes them both by.
He doesn’t entirely trust her, she doesn’t entirely trust him… that pair is going nowhere interesting.
I don’t care much about them, though. Maybe I should, out of a sense of racial solidarity. heh.
But yes, the future belongs to those who show up.
I am sending out the three little ones I’ve got now, and the three I hope yet to have.
LikeLike
Obsidian –
I think in your haste to attempt to discredit the Man instead of the Argument, you make a few slipshod mistakes of your own. I never said that the future belonged to Black folks or any other group. I simply said that the future belongs to those who show up for it.
So you didn’t say that the future belongs to blacks. You said the future belongs to whoever shows up… and that who’s showing up is blacks. Just because you didn’t follow your argument to its logical conclusion because then it sounds more absurd, doesn’t mean I can’t.
So I don’t see the point in discussing marital rates, as they have nothing to do wit my argument. My point again, is that perhaps there might be something to be said for the perception, real or imagined, of White Males simply not having the Right Stuff that compels choic females to want to carry and bring forth their seed. Its that simple.
This is pretty simple. My point in discussing marriage rates was to disprove that emasculation has anything to do with it. Emasculated men are more likely to get married and have kids than the alpha males. Guys like Roissy reproduce less than your averaged married chump. Get it yet?
Ag
LikeLike
Like I said before too the darwinian thing is precarious at this point in time for any race/country/tribe. With advances in war that will be able to make enemies obsolete more so than nuclear weapons ever could have. I include the west in that because they are constrained by “morals” about exterminating people who are not like them.
So maybe empire that I create will crumble quick F it I am going out with a smile.
LikeLike
Obsidian —
Pure unsupported racism Obsidian.
White birth rates are highest among more religious whites, who also report the fewest number of life sexual partners. Big city white women are, as Roissy has said and the data reflect, on average where the highest concentration of white sluts are found, yet they have the lowest birth rates.
Maybe white women are simply smarter about birth control, and less impulsive than black women. Who also are far sluttier, the data show, and far more likely to pop out babies while teens — and often young teens.
Tit for tat.
LikeLike
Group B has more of its genes out in the world, so from a purely evolutionary point of view, I’d say they were out ahead, SA.
Morals and culture and income are sort of irrelevant on that score, though not at all irrelevant in their own way.
LikeLike
omw – I think you’re getting confused about Darwin. The goal is to make sure your genes survive – not to have the most genes out there.
For animals – because they couldn’t control their environment – more babies = higher chance of survival.
For humans – because we can control our environment – more babies actually = less chance of survival.
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
You make some interesting arguments, but again, as MacDonald attempts to zero in on, there is something in Anglo culture at work here. Now, I personally think that MacDonald focuses a bit too much on Jews and othr esoteric stuff for my taste, and God knows he aint gonna go where I’m going with this argument-still, the very fact that he’s taking up the matter suggests to me that there’s a there, there.
And ironically enough, your debunking MacDonald’s cor argument, which is indeed group, or dare I say, racial cohesion. Hmm.
Black on Black violence is without a doubt a problem, but even taking that into account along w/the super high abortion rates among Black Women, and Black folf STILL keep pace w/Whites who aren’t bothered by neither, in terms of birthrates. That says something to me.
Hmm…
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Obsidian –
I have no idea if MacDonald is black or white. The whole thesis is so silly that I wouldn’t spend one second reading the argument behind it.
My point in bringing up black-on-black violence wasn’t that it slows down the population of blacks. I know we’ve discussed IQ disparities a lot here, so I’ll try to slow down so you can keep up.
MacDonald (according to what you wrote) says that low birth rates are a form of cultural suicide. If you don’t have a lot of kids, it’s because you hate your race and want to hurt it. I think this is ridiculous, but I’m just repeating what he said.
So if not having a lot of kids means you want to hurt your race, then having a lot of kids means you want to HELP your race. So if black people are having lots of kids, then they must want to HELP their race. How does that jive with black on black violence?
LikeLike
Yes, there is a threshold, but evolution means a change in allele frequencies over time, right?
So if you are merely hanging onto the same threadbare slice of market-share your g-g-g-g-grandaddy held five generations ago, while lots of other competitors are drowning you out for sheer volume, your genes ARE losing, unless something catastrophic happens to the competition.
(you can always make something catastrophic happen to them, too, which Greg alludes to.)
More babies only means less chance of survival if you are incapable of making some kind of elbow-room for ’em. That’s the stuff wars are made of, I suppose.
LikeLike
As for MacDonald – that’s implying a level of cultural cohesion that doesn’t exist. No man, white, black hispanic, or otherwise, has babies for the good for the race.
from what i’ve read, the question of how much genes influence kin selection is still in contention, but the evidence is piling up that this sort of hardwiring does indeed exist and exerts a subconscious pull on human mating preferences, to a lesser or greater extent.
He does it (or doesn’t do it) for himself.
are you more apt to bail your brother out of jail, or a complete stranger?
Emasculated men are more likely to get married and have kids than the alpha males.
remaining childless is not necessarily, nor even very often, a sign of emasculation.
unless you are prepared to argue that the condom was an invention that only appeared yesterday.
LikeLike
More babies only means less chance of survival if you are incapable of making some kind of elbow-room for ‘em. That’s the stuff wars are made of, I suppose.
Or if you can’t feed them.
LikeLike
from what i’ve read, the question of how much genes influence kin selection is still in contention, but the evidence is piling up that this sort of hardwiring does indeed exist and exerts a subconscious pull on human mating preferences, to a lesser or greater extent.
are you more apt to bail your brother out of jail, or a complete stranger?
I think you might be confusing what I wrote. You’ve said you don’t want to have kids, right Roissy? Are you doing that because you hate white people or because you don’t want to burden yourself?
Emasculated men are more likely to get married and have kids than the alpha males.
remaining childless is not necessarily, nor even very often, a sign of male emasculation.
unless you ar prepared to argue that the condom was an invention that only appeared yesterday.
Re-read my sentence… I said the opposite – that alphas are more likely to remain childless.
LikeLike
Well, if you can’t feed them out of the resources you currently have, you can always go to war to grab your neighbor’s.
If he’s dead, he won’t miss his farm anyway.
LikeLike
omw – In that case, your children are more likely to die in war. And in a modern war between population A and population B, it’ll be the richer population A that wins the war, not the more numerous population B.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii writes on March 6th:
“…Before the media was taken over by feminists and homosexuals, masculinity was portrayed in a positive manner, and encouraged.”
This is typical. First, I assume by feminists Dave means feminist women. I think we need to get something straight, the liberal cultural revolution that has ravaged America and the West is not the fault of women, feminists or homosexuals. It is the fault of white, heterosexual, liberal men for giving these groups political power in society. And yes, that includes — what is becoming more and more arguable, some might say obvious with each passing year — the error of granting political equality to women in democratic society.
Put the blame where it belongs, the materialist and Progressive movements and their intellectual forbears Darwin and the Enlightenment philosophers (as pointed out by Solzhenitsyn in his 1978 Harvard commencement address).
LikeLike
“Black men. 44% of black men are “never married” compared to 42.7% of Black women.”
Kind of relates to obsid.
“According to the US Census Bureau. in 2007 there were 40.7 million Blacks in America of the total population of 301.6 million. That’s 13.4% of the total U.S. population. The black population exceeded 500,000 in 20 states. Blacks were the largest minority group in 24 states, compared with 20 states in which Hispanics were the largest minority group.”
Such a small percentage so much “impact”
“Only 29% of African American women are married, campared to 39% of African American males and 53% of all Americans. ”
Where obsid becomes the sterotype and the truth. But dang who would of thought black woman would be so low on percentage married.
Not a population explosion.
“The projected single-race African American population of the United States in the year 2050. According to the projection, blacks would constitute 15% of the nation’s total population.”
So calm down high speed.
LikeLike
lehuster
Therefore your admission leads me to suspect that there is a fairly high likelihood that you are an aging, overweight beast.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
That’s very comforting.
LikeLike
True that asymmetrical warfare changes things, and the Western world has indeed gotten used to relying on its wealth to make the world spin its way, so it hardly cares anymore about its own numbers.
I don’t know how much longer that will last, though. One suspects an aging population with a spoiled younger generation isn’t likely to show up for the future in a serious way.
Can they stay rich and powerful through their demographic shift?
I’m staying tuned to find out, but am not willing to bet my family’s future on their zeitgeist.
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
Hmm. Very good question you pose wrt BOB violence, along side higher birthrates in the Black community. I would say, and this is just off the top of my head here, that one doesn’t necessarily flow with the other. I think that in the latter case, the urge to replicate oneself is a strong, primal urge, and manifests itself under even the most dire of times (Slavery, the Holocaust, are just two examples). That’s a very good question, and I’ll need to think about it a bit more before I can comment further.
As for MacD, I would kindly suggest you read his piece in its entirety before commenting further. I also want to say that in no way does his views reflect mine or vice versa; I’m merely using his paper as a jumping off point in the current discussion only.
Holla back
O
LikeLike
You’ve said you don’t want to have kids, right Roissy?
kids are a drag.
Are you doing that because you hate white people or because you don’t want to burden yourself?
the latter.
i doubt very many people avoid having children for the racialist self-loathing reason you gave, unless it’s some whackjob brainwashed SWPL hippie with ankle grabbing issues.
Re-read my sentence… I said the opposite – that alphas are more likely to remain childless.
woops. i mixed up your comments with Ob’s.
as for alphas being more likely to go the childfree route — i believe there was a study in the past year showing that high SES males had more children than lower SES males, but that high SES (and highly educated) females had *fewer* children than low SES females. the study’s authors reasoned that alpha males were having more kids with multiple women.
on the whole, though, it does seem to be the case that with the safety net of the welfare state firmly in place, the preset malthusian mechanism that creates the massive disincentive of destitution which historically has kept the reproductive rates of the lesser beta and omega males below that of the alpha males is being rapidly dismantled.
or: “ow, my balls!”
LikeLike
i doubt very many people avoid having children for the racialist self-loathing reason you gave, unless it’s some whackjob brainwashed SWPL hippie with ankle grabbing issues.
The racialist self-loathing reason was also Obl’s.
LikeLike
Gunslinger,
Again, you make a mistake. I was just pointing out to Seeking Alpha, that marital rates are irrelevant insofar as evolutionary concerns go; the ONLY goal, is to make sure your genes go forth into the future. Marriage is bit one way of achieving that end. But by no means, is it the only, or even best way. Its just one way of many.
We must also note the fact that simply because two people aren’t married, that they can’t care for kids. There are entire nations of such folks who would debunk such notions.
Again, we have to focus on the issue at hand here, which is, birthrates, NOT marital ones. One simply doesn’t have much to do with the other. On that score, despite the problems that beset Black folks, they still can keep pace w/Whites, who share none of the aforementioned problems.
Hmm…
The Obsidian
LikeLike
omw I think you are preparing correctly to live life and succeed.
War in the future will not need to be fought by people that are in harms way for the technologically advanced nation. So yea your enemy will have his Ak-47/M-16 but the advanced will be able to shoot him in the head at 4000 yards every time. As the bullet enters the head of his buddy. He will be thinking what the fuck I don’t see anything as the next bullet enters his head. They will only need maybe a 5000 man army to annillate the whole world. Ok yea it is interesting for me to contemplate just how precarious life is today. Take away nukes and airforce as deterrant and it is gonna be on.
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha,
Hold up. I didn’t introduce a “racialist” thing here-I was merely noting what we all here know to be true, that accross the Eurosphere, birthrates have been falling fast. Now, a few have noted that this has been the case in other areas of the world; I will concede that point, but still, even taking that into account, we still come away w/Whites leading the pack.
What is up with that???
THAT’S what I wish to explore.
Comments?
The Obsidian
LikeLike
Ob – I’m out of here, so we can’t continue. Just to clarify though – Roissy started debunking MacDonald’s thesis that low white birth rates are a form of – as Roissy termed it – racialist self-loathing. You were the one that brought that up, right?
LikeLike
Obsidian —
Wrong again.
The Japanese lead the pack. Actually the Chinese in China do too, but that’s due to a law — one child per family (with exceptions).
Give females education comparable to men, good job propects, a lot of income, and you get low birth rates. At least you do among females over a certain IQ/future planning / impulse control threshold.
LikeLike
Obsidian —
But instead you want to attribute it to a lack of balls on the part of white men. I quote again:
And then you protest to Seeking Alpha that you weren’t be racialist?!
LikeLike
Doug,
OK then, let’s accept your argument on its face. Fine.
You still have to account for the fact that, taken as a group, White guys simply don’t have the skills, or talent, to convince enough White gals to give up the panties and pop out babies. Now, if you want to argue that most White guys are like Roissy, who has made his intention clear that he doesn’t want kids, fine. But if they do want kids, they got some ‘splainin’ to do.
My point is, why is it so hard for White guys to get the job done? Wassup wit dat?
Comments?
O
LikeLike
Naa obsidian white leading the pack probably will not last. Then you lose your protector. Sure Like I said before africa losing western aid yes they will survive. Except when someone else decides to invade and take the resources for themselves and I don’t mean people resources but raw materials type resouces. If whites would no longer protect as in give a fuck or couldn’t give a fuck about it. Then others will move in by force and all the sudden that changes things.
LikeLike
White people Business in nigeria guys can we get the oil Hey we will even bribe you to get the oil. We will even build the infrastructure and put you in charge of it still. Then we will punish ourselves for needing to bribe you. Someone else. Nigeria thats are oil you have on our new land. You people can get off our new land or we can kill you. Your choice. We don’t give a fuck what you do just get the fuck out of any area that has something we want. No we are not going to feel bad about it. We have a manifest destiny to own everything in the world that we want. Somalia we noticed pirates were using your coast as a leap point for our shipping well now we have to kill everyone on your coast and make it into a vacation spot for our people. Have a nice day.
LikeLike
ob:
You still have to account for the fact that, taken as a group, White guys simply don’t have the skills, or talent, to convince enough White gals to give up the panties and pop out babies.
this line of argument is strange. in modern society, skills and talent have got nothing to do with popping out babies. it could just as easily be argued that white men are better at putting on condoms than men of more fecund races.
now it certainly takes skill to get a woman to drop trou, but once that barrier is breached, it’s really a matter of external, non-game related circumstances whether that trou dropping leads to baby popping. one such circumstance that comes to mind: the woman’s level of education.
If whites would no longer protect as in give a fuck or couldn’t give a fuck about it. Then others will move in by force and all the sudden that changes things.
in the West, a major reason for the higher birthrates among the indigent is the vast, all-encompassing welfare state that props them up. remove all safety nets — including medicare and medicaid and foodstamps and free emergency room visits — and you will see the birthrates of society’s losers and parasites drop rather quickly.
LikeLike
Somalia we noticed pirates were using your coast as a leap point for our shipping well now we have to kill everyone on your coast and make it into a vacation spot for our people.
The only thing on this planet that keeps white people from doing exactly that is other white people.
Let this be a sobering thought to anyone who thinks that “whitey lost his mojo” and assumes that mores don’t change with time, sometimes on a dime.
LikeLike
DA to PA:
“existential questions such as “what good am I” start creeping in; when you can’t find a good answer to those questions, all the freedom and fun loses its flavor.”
As somebody who has faced that question for the past seven years, I’d argue that the freedom and fun are the only way to paper over that question.
PA and David, consider it this way: countless generations toiled in the fields, thousands upon thousands of scholars and scientists worked tirelessly to advance our knowledge, and millions sacrificed their lives on battlefields for democracy and rule of law so that you and people like you could live a decent life. Are you going to waste it by wallowing in existential bullshit? Honor our predecessors by making full use of the freedom and wealth of modern society.
LikeLike
Roissy,
Thanks for chiming in. Let me see if I can address your points in relation to my earlier remarks.
Without a doubt, birthrates among certain groups would drop if the welfare state were at the least greatly reduced, if not taken away outright. Agreed.
Still, there has to be something about the fact, that throughout the Anglosphere, White folks simply aren’t having babies, or as many as they should. Now, of course, it can be said that the pill, condom, econ-freedom and so on, that Women hav gotten, makes things more difficult on that score. That’s fair. But I still maintain that something’s amiss among White guys in general, if they’re unable to reverse this trend.
Often, in this venue and elsewhere, many posters will voice their concerns about the future of their ethnic/racial group. Personally this doesn’t bother me in the least, but what does, is what I am starting to see as a kind of avoidance toward the issue we’re discussing; simply put, not enough White guys are making a compelling enough case to White gals to give up the panties. This is where Game becomes vitally important, in terms of group survival.
And, let’s keep in mind: Black Women have just as much access to the pill, abortions, education and econ-freedom, yet Brothas can make many a Sista’s panties drop. Hmm.
Its something that is fascinating to consider. I know it is for me.
Comments?
O
LikeLike
@obsidian,
Your Black sisters in fact, do not have access to “eco-freedom”, (meaningful)education, and abortion. For many of the girls in the projects, having a baby is desirable. It makes them important. They matter. They have little other options to a meaningful life.
LikeLike
but it would not surprise me if Black middle class families were larger than their White counterparts.
Actually, married black middle class families have declining birth rates, and even papering over the declines by saying unmarried black women are having their children and then marrying isn’t working. It’s at the point where White married women now have more kids than married black women.
Secondly, anecdotally, even the whole unmarried black woman birth rate is tanking. While unmarried black women are more likely to have kids than their white sisters, it’s shifted from the one mom with 5 kids model to the five moms with five kids model, especially with the demise of classic no-strings attached welfare.
Read these three blog comments by Ta-Nehisi Coates for more background and discussion.
the white lower middle classes have their habitats virtually wiped out by nondiscrimination laws in some parts of the country
READ: God forbid black people move into a white neighbourhood. They should stay with their own kind. Right?
LikeLike
Obsidian,
It is an interesting question. I would suggest you research the relative birthrates of white Americans who call themselves regular church goers and those who do not and I think then you’ll be able to begin sketching out an answer to this question. In short, transcendence matters. Or some concept of life or reality beyond the material.
Only the West is infected with the parasitic virus that reality is made up of nothing but the material world, essentially because the virus was borne of the West.
LikeLike
Blog Posts:
http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/07/black_illigetimacy_reconsidered.php
http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/07/black_babies_born_out_of_wedlock_cont.php
http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/07/even_more_on_out_of_wedlock_births.php
LikeLike
Anony,
Again: MOST Black folks ARE NOT in the underclass; in fact, there are more Blacks in the middle class than anywhere else on the social scale. So the notion that all pregnant Black Women are either crackheads or project dwellers is silly.
Secondarily, I would urge you to check out the stats for Black Women and formal education; they either are on par with or in some cases, exceed that of White Women. And this has been the case for sometime now.
Again: I am submitting that a major factor in *why* White birthrates throughout the Anglosphere continues to drop, is due to the fact that not enough White guys are “Man Enough”.
Comments? Questions?
The Obsidian
LikeLike
AE,
Yes, you make a powerful point about the role that Faith-and let’s be very specific here-Faith based on Patriarchal Roles-plays here. When its in evidence, more babies are born, fullstop.
The problem, though, as you note, and even Roissy has spoken to this recently, is that the West’s faith traditions have been tampered with by secularists of just about every stripe. And again, there is no credible response by White Males. Hmm.
Very interesting question, indeed.
O
LikeLike
It isn’t that white men can’t get their women to “drop panties” but that they don’t want their women to “drop career.”
Cuts into one’s lifestyle in a serious way.
But, mostly, the vast majority of white people refuse to think seriously about demographic issues at all– this kind of conversation doesn’t happen outside the internet, in my white experience. 😉
Although there are some curiously pro-natalist, and possibly racialist, forces quietly creeping into the culture; I was unaware of them till the birth of my third kid, which provoked quite an interesting range of reactions.
LikeLike
ob:
Without a doubt, birthrates among certain groups would drop if the welfare state were at the least greatly reduced, if not taken away outright.
it might even be more accurate to say that absent the welfare state the birthrate could remain the same while more babies would die in the street, at least in the short term.
nature is a cruel headmaster.
Still, there has to be something about the fact, that throughout the Anglosphere, White folks simply aren’t having babies, or as many as they should.
true, the TFR of whites is falling.
but it should be noted that birthrates at the moment appear to be dropping in many corners of the globe, including the middle east, asia, and even some regions in africa.
now whether whites *should* have more babies is an interesting theoretical question, but one that says next to nothing about the seduction skills of white men, given that there are so many extenuating reasons for the low fertility rate of whites.
But I still maintain that something’s amiss among White guys in general, if they’re unable to reverse this trend.
that’s assuming white guys want to reverse the trend. it seems to me that more white men than white women are perfectly OK with skipping out on the whole child birthin’ thing. motivation matters.
note: avoiding the parent trap does not necessarily imply avoidance of the snapper.
Often, in this venue and elsewhere, many posters will voice their concerns about the future of their ethnic/racial group.
it’s possible to discuss larger trends, and even advocate for solutions to address problems arising from those trends, while behaving in one’s private life completely at odds with one’s stated principles.
simply put, not enough White guys are making a compelling enough case to White gals to give up the panties.
giving up the panties != giving up the egg.
This is where Game becomes vitally important, in terms of group survival.
in the age of widespread contraceptive use, the naturally occurring end result of Game is easily thwarted.
And, let’s keep in mind: Black Women have just as much access to the pill, abortions, education and econ-freedom, yet Brothas can make many a Sista’s panties drop.
actually, all those things you listed argue more in favor of sista’s being the ultimate arbiter of their eggs getting fertilized than the sexual prowess of the brotha’s.
LikeLike
Again: I am submitting that a major factor in *why* White birthrates throughout the Anglosphere continues to drop, is due to the fact that not enough White guys are “Man Enough”.
Whites on the whole were never of the “breed like cockroaches” kind. Even with large 8-children families, this would normally occur among rural folk where each kid was taken care of by his immediate and extended family.
In modern society the normal white model is two children. More among religious and rural folk, fewer among secular or urban whites. Perfectly good, self-sustaining numbers. If that’s not “man enough” for some, so be it.
LikeLike
DA’s right, too– the classic 30-year-old Cabrini-Greene welfare mom with six kids is really a thing of the past.
Now she’s got two or three kids spread out over ten years, and her income at KFC is supplemented by WIC and Section 8… but she doesn’t have six kids.
LikeLike
The only thing on this planet that keeps white people from doing exactly that is other white people.
As I said over at Half Sigma’s place, it’s simply two competing versions of white nationalism. “Negative” white superiority that brings up the race realist aspect which some would argue easily turns into the KKK/Nazi Party brand of superiority, and “Positive” white superiority which can be boiled down to the idea that white people must use their “goodness” to save the world. The “positive” types would abhor killing Somalians because white people are post-violence, which to a certain extent implies some degree of superiority to those who still continue to use it.
Of course, as an self-described oreo, “positive” white nationalism is acceptable for me since there’s relatively safe in it place for me in it.
including medicare and medicaid and foodstamps and free emergency room visits — and you will see the birthrates of society’s losers and parasites drop rather quickly
Eliminating Medicare (and in some cases Medicaid) is probably a burden on upon middle class families who are more likely to have parents who reach the age to qualify for both programs. In other words, you’ll reduce the middle class birth rate due to the transfer of money from potential children to elderly parents.
Unless hospitals ask for payment before treatment, you’ll simply end up with hospitals that bleed money on the care of poor folks who don’t have the money to pay back. Hell, dealing with their medical and social needs creates a whole pool of middle class careers (doctors, lawyers, social workers, nurses and their various supports) to deal with the poor. Take away these jobs, and you’ll affect middle class birth rates as well.
Besides, the idea of poor people walking around with untreated diseases may cause some unwanted effects on the rest of society.
Interestingly, given that my grandmother raised five children in the poor third world country, and some women did so without the assistance of welfare or husbands, I suspect that welfare isn’t always the magical inducement for children…
LikeLike
Roissy,
Good responses. I’ll have to think them over before responding in full.
But I did want to quickly reply to your parting shot: without a doubt, I agree with you. My position has always been, that in Nature, the Female chooses.
Good money!
The Obsidian
LikeLike
THe idea of effeminate whites being unable to bang white women applies to the SWPL west. But I can’t see how russian men are effeminate. And still Russia has an even lower TFR than most of the effeminate West.
And as others have pointed, non-white countries like Tunisia and Japan are also facing TFR below replacement. What we don’t have is a black TFR well below replacement anywhere as far as I know, so Obsidian may be correct about blacks but not about whites, unless he can explains Russia, Tunisia and Japan
LikeLike
@obsidian,
-rates of sex do not predict rates of childbirth
LikeLike
her income at KFC is supplemented by WIC and Section 8
I think I know her!
She glared at me when I was buying my 5-piece bucket and then snarled at her Mexican manager, then raised hell at the Seven Eleven because you can’t buy lottery tickets with the “Independence Card,” and then her working class white neighbors called the cops (once again) because she’s thumping music out of her car at 3 AM.
LikeLike
“David Alexander
READ: God forbid black people move into a white neighbourhood. They should stay with their own kind. Right?”
I grew up as only white on basketball court and it was done intentionally because they moved blacks into our area because the area you know didn’t have enough blacks before that. Now of course it would have been different if black people would have moved there with their own money and there own mind. Kind of like my parents who bought a house you know paid a mortgage. Of course hey I will get to reap some benefit of that houses now cost 22k for a duplex lol so ty black people.
LikeLike
Gig,
I believe in the case of Russia, alcoholism, drug abuse, & HIV/AIDS, among a great many other things, are among the culprits of very low birthrates. Putin, when he was in power, even tried to entice couples into having (more) babies. One can only speculate how that turned out.
As for Japan, I’m thinking a similar thing has happened there as its happened in the Anglosphere-the Males got neutered. And as we all know, Women don’t dig Men w/no balls. Just a hypothesis.
More replies in a moment.
O
LikeLike
God forbid black people move into a white neighbourhood.
David: white people exist for other purposes than just to serve as feed for black people. White people who work as contractors and carpenters also feel like they should have something called a community of their own. White people have human needs, David. Repeat after me: white people are human beings too… white people are human beings too…
LikeLike
Now she’s got two or three kids spread out over ten years, and her income at KFC is supplemented by WIC and Section 8… but she doesn’t have six kids.
Some of these women may have two kids, but sometimes from the same boyfriend or a different boyfriend, but from varying relationships. Sometimes, the father was a one-night stand, other times, the father was a “good-enough for now” medium-term boyfriend, and other times, the couple doesn’t marry simply to avoid losing out on the social assistance that they do receive or in limited cases, because they can’t afford a wedding.
Section 8 is pretty much what’s given out in lieu of housing projects as it shifts the burden of maintenance on to private landlords. OTOH, my friend is a landlord, and he doesn’t accept Section 8 primarily because it pays too little in his view. WiC is a program for the youngest children, and IMHO, it’s simply an absurd give away to connected interests in the food lobby. It’s not enough to solve food insecurity, and it’s nearly impossible to use it to buy healthy food like fruits and vegetables. I suspect you’re referring to Food Stamps which can vary by jurisdiction in terms of what’s provided and who qualifies for it.
As for employment, fast food is sometimes the first rung, but eventually they move up to being the employees at big box stores like Wal-Mart or Target or other areas of the low paying service industry where the pay hovers around $10/hr or so. Hell, where I live, fast food in some suburban areas is basically Mexican immigrants since white middle class teens won’t do it anymore, and poorer blacks have public transit issues and ask for more money than the legal and illegal immigrants.
In modern society the normal white model is two children.
I want three mixed race babies. Mind you, I’m Catholic. 🙂
LikeLike
I always assumed that the Finns had the highest suicide rate.
Of all the white countries, it’s the former communist ones that have the highest suicide rates. Think Baltic states, for example. Compared to the other Nordic countries, Finland’s suicide rate is clearly higher.
LikeLike
I want three mixed race babies.
Ok, back to seriousness… and this is a serious question: black people (males anyway) seem to be the only race that prefers female of other races to their own.
So — is this a form of self-loathing (“I wanna be more white”) or is it a reproductive strategy, apparently limited to African-descended males, that commands them to pollinate females of other races (make “them” more black”) ?
You did note once (with your usual admirable candor) that if you had a mixed-race daughter, you wouldn’t want her to have children with a black guy. So maybe in your case it is a desire to become white, more so than it is an impulse to turn others more black?
LikeLike
I ran track in high school — pretty well at medium distances. One of my events was the 800m relay. During my leg of the race, I acted on two imperatives: first, do not drop the fucking baton. Two: run fast.
I do honor our predecessors by enjoying the wealth of our modern society. I’m chilling out on a cool blog, aren’t I?
I also honor them by not pissing it away. Ok, maybe pissing it away a little bit when I kick back too many brews with my brother in law or play Rock Band with my o m e g a male friends in their basement.
David A. also honors his predecessors by respecting the standards of behavior they brought him up with.
LikeLike
The 3200m relay, not the 800m. Each leg was 800m, or twice around the outdoor track.
LikeLike
PA,
Lest Dave Alex’s views be taken as representative of Black Men everywhere, please allow me to add to the discussion.
First, I don’t know about the idea that Black Men want to “cross pollinate” *more* than Men of other Races. for starters, and the stats bear this out, Black Men invarably choose Black Women as longterm mates.
Having said that though, if we consider the fact that on average, Black Men have higher t-levels, it would then make sense that they would have a greater urge to merge w/females of other races. There does seem to be something to be said for the fact that Black Men do seem to get around a bit more than do White Males, etc. So, in a sense, you may have something there.
As for the whole self-loathing thing DA goes through, I don’t share it at all. I am very proud of my heritage and the unique contribution my peeps have made to this country. And I seek to pass that on to my progeny as well.
O
LikeLike
I hate to have arguments without facts.
Here is a website that shows the projected TFR of various countries both historical (from 1955), present and projected future (2050) in all cases I have looked at so far, INCLUDING Sub-Saharan Africa, fertility has or will fall off a cliff.
The data is taken from UN sources, which if anything are overestimates (they keep revising their dates for peak global population to earlier and earlier dates). The link below is for Zambia, which is a modestly successful African story (though it’s no Botswana).
http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_detail.cfm?country=ZM&indicatorid=138
So you see, O, Africans are not immune to the same issue that White Americans and Europeans are facing. Or Indians. Or Japanese. Or Egyptians. Or… or… or…..
Most interestingly is that the drops in TFR span the poor/rich and religious/nonreligious divide (check out Saudi Arabia for a rich, but religious state). Occam’s razor dictates that it’s not Game, but something else. My best guess is that it’s access to the pill and economic equality for women (supercharged by political equality, though that’s not necessary c.f. Saudi Arabia).
Why raise kids when you can spend the money on a pink Kawaii car? Why have kids when you can pursue that non-sensical post-grad degree? It’s all about opportunity cost… and kids are a huge cost to those who don’t have baby lust.
LikeLike
“Only 29% of African American women are married, campared to 39% of African American males and 53% of all Americans. ”
Lol dude even though blacks scew the percentages for total dam.
LikeLike
JAM,
Good points. Although I must say in fairness, that I wasn’t talking about Africa, but I’m glad you brought it up. So let’s look at that.
First, we have to keep in mind that there’s a huge difference btw sub-Saharan Africa, and most of the EU. The former has been continually wracked w/civil war/strife, “strongman” dictators, & of course, HIV/AIDS. It only makes sense then, that the TFR rates would slip, at the least, in these areas.
On the other hand, the EU, especially its “big 3”, has experienced nothing but peace and prosperity for what, five, 6 decades running? I trust you see my point.
Having said all that, w/o question, Women getting the vote, the pill, abortions and econ-freedom has played a powerful role all over the globe; and I think it fair to say, that when Women can choose, they have fewer, not more, babies.
Still, in the Anglosphere, they’re having fewer babies, than just about everyone else.
The question is…why?
O
LikeLike
White people have human needs, David.
And I have needs too. I want a safe nice neighbourhood for my kids with good schools. If it happens to be a white neighbourhood with those features, why shouldn’t I be able to buy in it?
black people (males anyway) seem to be the only race that prefers female of other races to their own.
I’ve jokingly said that black women remind black men of the mothers who nagged them and their fathers to death. Some of the black guys who chase white women sometimes end up taking the white girls with “black” physical characteristics. The only difference is that even if the white girls “act” black, they don’t have the same “bitchiness”.
is this a form of self-loathing (”I wanna be more white”) or is it a reproductive strategy, apparently limited to African-descended males, that commands them to pollinate females of other races (make “them” more black”)
It’s numerous reasons, IMHO. I suspect some view white women of higher rank, and view any sex with them as a trophy and a sign of success. Some do harbour some degree of self-hatred, and even I should admit to that. Other find women other races to be attractive, and thus simply prefer non-black women over black women. And yes, for a small few, some see impregnation as the goal, but that only works in cultures where any black ancestry makes one black.
Interestingly, if one believes in the bell curve for IQs, given the lower percentage of what constitutes “high-IQ” for the black community, it seems to be easier for an above average black person to find a partner with similar IQ outside of the race than inside of it.
You did note once (with your usual admirable candor) that if you had a mixed-race daughter, you wouldn’t want her to have children with a black guy.
If I’m in super-elitist mode, then yes, I’d pretty much copy the same attitudes of my great-aunt and aim for the highest white males for my daughters in order for them to move upward socially. If I’m in guilty Catholic mode, then my kids should be free to marry whoever they want since we’re all equal and valid in the eyes of God, and it would be hypocritical of me to bar my children from marrying black when I had to find a white couple who was willing to let their daughter marry me.
Ok, maybe pissing it away a little bit when I kick back too many brews with my brother in law or play Rock Band with my o m e g a male friends in their basement.
I think that’s the difference between you and me. I don’t think that playing Rock Band or drinking a few beers isn’t pissing away the legacy of our ancestors. They worked hard and fought so we can do these things.
LikeLike
Here is a good document about fertility rates projected through 2050:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/projections/methodstatement.pdf
See Table 2 on page 3. Hispanics are projected to remain above replacement level for the whole time, while blacks and whites will have an almost equal fertility rate from 2010 onward.
LikeLike
I don’t think that playing Rock Band or drinking a few beers isn’t pissing away the legacy of our ancestors.
I said that jokingly. Having fun is part of a balanced life.
LikeLike
Here is a listing of countries’ fertility rates as of 2008:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate
LikeLike
Why raise kids when you can spend the money on a pink Kawaii car? Why have kids when you can pursue that non-sensical post-grad degree? It’s all about opportunity cost… and kids are a huge cost to those who don’t have baby lust.
It’s good you added the last sentence. There are those who find raising kids deeply satisfying.
LikeLike
I want a safe nice neighbourhood for my kids with good schools.
But can’t black folks make their own safe neighborhoods with good schools?
One of the silent stories of ethnic-white America is how as immigrants they would settle in the poorest of Cleveland or Chicago neighborhoods, create their own good schools, safe streets, flowers in front yards, etc., and then the whites in power would build projects in their vincinity and settle equally poor blacks in those same neighborhoods… the beaten-up granny, the harassed sister, the swarm-kicked schoolboy: all in the collective memory of Polish / Greek / German / Italian-Americans.
And yeah, these guys fought back, protested, got involved in local politics, and did their own ass-kicking. The whites in power referred to this as “racist riots.” So these people moved out to the suburbs, leaving behind Detroit and its once-well -tended homes that even during the housing boom couldn’t sell for over $10,000.
LikeLike
Just wanted to note, in relation to DA’s comments about bell curves and whatnot:
ALL of my past & present Black Women, have IQs exceeding 120 points. Most were Honor’s grads. Several had PhDs. Most had at least one Master’s degree. Now, in fairness, the White Women I’ve dealt with also were quite smart-but the idea that I would *have* to date outside my race in order to find smart chicks is a bit absurd.
Plus, given the fact that genetically speaking, African folks have more variation than do anyone else, means that I can get a very lightskinned Sista on one hand, and a Dark & Lovely on the other. Best of both worlds.
Just sayin.
The Obsidian
LikeLike
If you had a business and 13 percent of it was always losing 100 percent of the money you put into it. Wouldn’t you just close down the 13 percent so the other 87 percent would survive and maybe prosper.
LikeLike
Comment above in response to David’s “I want a safe nice neighbourhood for my kids with good schools” is stuck in moderation. I have no idea why.
LikeLike
O:
>> Still, in the Anglosphere, they’re having fewer babies, than just about everyone else.
>The question is…why?
Occam’s razor: Follow the trend curves. Zambia in 40 years is America a generation ago. The West had a head start, so they’ve gotten here first, East and Southeast Asia is upon them, ditto the Latins. South Asia and the Arabs are closing fast. Africa will end up there, too — they’re already sledding down the curve.
The rates of TFR change may differ, the speed may differ… but we’re all ended up in the same place. Until the religious people inherit the earth. The TFR for the really religious is sky-high. IIRC, TFR for Hasidic Jews in Israel is over 8.0.*
Italian guys have lots of game… but Italy’s birth rate is well below that of White America. Russian men? Some of the most alpha guys I’ve had the pleasure of meeting. Russia’s population is declining by 150K a year. Your game/lack of game argument for White Americans (and I say this objectively, being neither white nor black or American) cuts no ice.
Markku
>>Why raise kids when you can spend the money on a pink Kawaii car? Why have kids when you can pursue that non-sensical post-grad degree? It’s all about opportunity cost… and kids are a huge cost to those who don’t have baby lust.
>
>It’s good you added the last sentence. There are those who find raising kids deeply satisfying.
I count myself among the ones with baby lust Markku, lol. You’re preaching to the converted.
* You could make the argument that Saudi Arabia should have a higher fertility rate, but there’s one confounding factor — polygamy. Yes a man may have 8 children… but if it’s with four wives, then it’s still a TFR of 2 (with 3 angry bomb-strappin’ bachelors).
LikeLike
But can’t black folks make their own safe neighborhoods with good schools?
If you believe in race realism, then no.
In practice, I grew up at the edge of New York City in working class/high prole community with a sizable Caribbean presence where the lawns were manicured, the homes were in good shape, and the crime rate was low, but still slightly higher than a white area. The local elementary schools weren’t utterly bad, but one school was so-so and underperformed when compared to the local Catholic school, and the other did decently. Oddly, I must note that given property taxes, home prices, and other factors, my old neighbourhood is still a better bet than some black areas out here on LI that have questionable schools, gangs, and housing stock that isn’t much better.
Mind you, given that the United States is only 12.5% black, I don’t see the need to magically restrict myself to the small patches of land that just happen to be a black neighbourhood, and I’d want my kids to be exposed to white children as well just to avoid having them view whites as a monolithic block. If I’m an American, then I should live with other Americans. Hell, my cousins in Canada are generally surprised at why all their black cousins live in mostly black areas since they live in white areas with no problems. I’ve felt more at ease in their white areas than I have anywhere in the US, hence my latent desire to move to Canada.
I must also add that while I’m in the pro-white neighbourhood/integration camp, I’ve met plenty of black people who couldn’t be bothered to move to a white area. My mom’s friend has basically stated she could never live where we are at all.
ALL of my past & present Black Women, have IQs exceeding 120 points. Most were Honor’s grads.
See David’s two female cousins, one who graduated from Columbia and the other from Georgia Tech. The latter cousin shares the same maternal lineage as David… 🙂
LikeLike
There are those who find raising kids deeply satisfying.
Well, there are some perverts out there who like whispering in the ears of a woman and telling her that I’m going to impregnate her* (with obviously more seductive undertones), but obviously can’t go around knocking up their significant others (or multiple women) due to the high costs of raising children.
Of course, you can now see why I’m against the in vitro fertilization methods to improve IQ…
*Obviously, there are women who enjoy being impregnated as well… 🙂
LikeLike
Obsidian —
Bullsh*t. Unless maybe you’re talking about some very localized phenomenon with freak (very unrepresentative) demographics. Even then I’d doubt it.
There’s this little matter of IQ. Which yes is heavily genetic the evidence overwhelming shows.
And culture. On the culture front I’ll grant you there are some back sub cultures, often conservative church going, versus some white sub cultures, where the black one values education more. But one has to do a lot of cherry picking to get there. It’s not remotely representative.
As well there’s the falsity of black educational certification. It’s heavily and artificially bolstered by affirmative action. See Michelle Obama’s struggling to stay afloat at Princeton, and then blaming whitey for it somehow.
LikeLike
Obsidian,
Yes you’re right. My response simply begs the question. If the loss/denial of transcendance (not quite the same thing as faith) is a major causal factor in the reduction of white birth rates, then why don’t whites regain it? To this I would say that it is because whites are told/taught that their religion/civilization/race is false or evil or perhaps just greatly exaggerated. This attitude is present at every level of official Western society: science/academia, media and politics.
As best as I’ve been able to tell, this has its roots in the Enlightenment thinkers (however liberalism’s present form, though consistent with the underlying assumptions of the Enlightenment, would probably have been considered completely alien to the likes of John Locke) as was described by Solzhenitsyn. Here’s the operative quote from his Harvard address:
“This means that the mistake must be at the root, at the very basis of human thinking in the past centuries. I refer to the prevailing Western view of the world which was first born during the Renaissance and found its political expression from the period of the Enlightenment. It became the basis for government and social science and could be defined as rationalistic humanism or humanistic autonomy: the proclaimed and enforced autonomy of man from any higher force above him. It could also be called anthropocentricity, with man seen as the center of everything that exists.
“The turn introduced by the Renaissance evidently was inevitable historically. The Middle Ages had come to a natural end by exhaustion, becoming an intolerable despotic repression of man’s physical nature in favor of the spiritual one. Then, however, we turned our backs upon the Spirit and embraced all that is material with excessive and unwarranted zeal. This new way of thinking, which had imposed on us its guidance, did not admit the existence of intrinsic evil in man nor did it see any higher task than the attainment of happiness on earth. It based modern Western civilization on the dangerous trend to worship man and his material needs. Everything beyond physical well-being and accumulation of material goods, all other human requirements and characteristics of a subtler and higher nature, were left outside the area of attention of state and social systems, as if human life did not have any superior sense. That provided access for evil, of which in our days there is a free and constant flow. Merely freedom does not in the least solve all the problems of human life and it even adds a number of new ones.
“However, in early democracies, as in American democracy at the time of its birth, all individual human rights were granted because man is God’s creature. That is, freedom was given to the individual conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility. Such was the heritage of the preceding thousand years. Two hundred or even fifty years ago, it would have seemed quite impossible, in America, that an individual could be granted boundless freedom simply for the satisfaction of his instincts or whims. Subsequently, however, all such limitations were discarded everywhere in the West; a total liberation occurred from the moral heritage of Christian centuries with their great reserves of mercy and sacrifice. State systems were becoming increasingly and totally materialistic. “
LikeLike
Kthulah
Just noticed that.
Good creative one K.
LikeLike
Kthulah–
I keep wondering what lead you to Israel. I rather imagine it was man related, but I still wonder.
Just idle curiosity.
Don’t imagine you’re gonna spill.
LikeLike
Yes, I think that “do your best,expect the worst” attitude is the most intellectually healthy. I know many prefer the “do your best, expect the best” attitude, but unless you learn and practice the habit of staring death in the face, the fear of the uncomfortable will rear its head in all sorts of cognitive dissonances.
How willing a person is to face the dark is equal to how bravely they can think.
LikeLike
Which, of course, is why those that BELIEVE in life after death are not worth having a conversation with. True believers already KNOW.
LikeLike
ae
> Yes you’re right. My response simply begs the question. If the loss/denial of transcendance (not quite the same thing as faith) is a major causal factor in the reduction of white birth rates, then why don’t whites regain it? To this I would say that it is because whites are told/taught that their religion/civilization/race is false or evil or perhaps just greatly exaggerated. This attitude is present at every level of official Western society: science/academia, media and politics.
Maybe. But why is TFR *also* declining in large swathes of the world that are non-Christian? It’s declining in every major civilization (Hindu, Buddhist, Islamic, Sinic, Latin, Western, Othodox), even the ones that teach that their way of life is best (wait, isn’t that all of them? 😉 ). Japan is below replacement and so is Iran. Brazil is on the cusp.
Religious people who exist within modernity, such as Mormons, don’t reproduce a whole lot more than white Americans. The effect is there, but it is dwarfed by the impact of cheap contraception and the choices of economic exuberance.
For ‘traditional levels’ of child-bearing, you have to go to peoples who have opted out of modernity and have their own parallel society (e.g., Hasidic Jews, etc.). That’s an option that most people (especially women) will not want to take.
I’m with you on a return to a better balance… but the world will change in very weird ways before we eventually get there.
Someone upthread mentioned that we may be selecting for baby-lust. I think there’s something to that. I just hope we don’t get too many octomoms in the deal. The likely return of patriarchy (and consequent patriarchal views of society, like a small government) will probably minimize this.
LikeLike
ae
Very nice quote. If I were to summarize my own reaction to radical materialism it would be to argue that human consciousness proceeds only with an “as if” that there is more connectivity beyond our own psyches going on than simple, classical materialism can account for. So the only choices are to find a way to account for it or live with a hopeless disconnect between what one thinks and how one lives.
Neitzche once said – more or less – that “our modern problem was that we first removed God from nature and then killed God.”
So we are asked to believe that we are radically alone while needing to live as if we are radically connected – to something. Fortunately, most peole have enough folkish instincts and good common sense to not try to live as an ice-cold nihilist.
LikeLike
Which could be why becoming rich without the accompanying fear of death leaves the whole world open with unlimited choices. Otherwise you could become a prisoner in your castle. Or if people say what if you die before you get rich. If you die you are dead how could that be a reason not to try.
LikeLike
ae —
That’s true because Marxism and other flavors of far and pretty far leftism have their roots in the Enlightenment. So too does classical liberalism, which is another kettle of fish and what predominated first and while the West was growing in wealth and power the fastest — with libertarianism being the closest thing to that going today.
Remember that the greatest days of world domination were ahead for the West when the Enlightenment was going on in the 1700s. America had yet to seize most of the continent, England had yet to turn India from a set of trading outposts into the Jewel in their Empire, takeover much of Africa, make deep inroads into China, or extensively colonize Australia and New Zealand. In other worlds, Britain and Britons wasn’t feeling too suicidal at that point — but instead rather full of oats.
Really the West wasn’t stepping aside for others much until after WWII. Then it did so lead by leftists/socialists. Who also brought us radical Feminism.
And so it went.
LikeLike
I dunno, it seems to me that a lot of you are maybe thinking too hard about what causes declines in birth rates. How about this possibility instead: birth rates in cultures when they reach a certain level of wealth and absolute population tend to decline.
Why would this be so? Well, back when there were, say, 50,000 homo sapiens in the entire world, and plagues and tigers were around every corner, survival was at stake always and everywhere. In the middle ages, life for most people consisted of not much more than eating, fucking, working, birthing, and dying. These days, prosperous people have lots of options. And if you don’t feel like having kids, so what? Given that there are 6 billion other people around, it ain’t going to mean a thing so far as the fate of the species goes.
And wealth? Well, many people find that they ease up at a certain level of income. I have a few friends who continued being killers in the work world until they made their millions. But I have many others who were happy enough at 50 grand a year, and who had other priorities.
So maybe an element here is simply that at a certain level of wealth and numbers, people’s fertility rates just naturally decline. We’re secure as a species so far as numbers go, and thanks to wealth and technology many people can now choose to spend their time on something other than childbearing and child-raising.
LikeLike
It’s heavily and artificially bolstered by affirmative action. See Michelle Obama’s struggling to stay afloat at Princeton, and then blaming whitey for it somehow.
It’s one of those situations where you can argue that you’re damned with either solution. Without AA, you’re stuck with few black students in Ivy League schools, and blacks complaining that those schools are racist because they allow few black students. Of course, this has the long-term problem of keeping blacks out of positions of power which disenfranchises the black population even further, and creates antagonism against the white community. With AA, you have the opposite problem where some students who were called smart for years by their teachers, friends, and family or had excellent academic records end up in Ivy League schools and either barely pass and believe that racists keep them down since they used to have good grades before, or they wash out and become depressed or bitter.
The likely return of patriarchy (and consequent patriarchal views of society, like a small government) will probably minimize this.
Since everybody keeps throwing around this word a lot, somebody is going to have to explain the concept of the “patriarchy” and it’s return.
LikeLike
you claim that western institutions are changing such that the birthrates of alphas will no longer outstrip those of betas because the state will step in to support the offspring of the incompetent and feckless. I don’t think this follows given your definition of an alpha as someone many women want to sleep with and a beta as someone few women want to sleep with. Now that the women no longer need talented and hard working betas and omegas (and you shouldn’t doubt that economic talent skews towards the gameless, as does dedication) underclass women can have as many children with the biggest alpha thug they want and expect the state to foot the bill.
LikeLike
> Since everybody keeps throwing around this word a lot, somebody is going to have to explain the concept of the “patriarchy” and it’s return.
DA: this is for you:
http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2006/the_return_of_patriarchy
LikeLike
That was a fascinating article, JAM. Thanks.
LikeLike
Michael Blowhard –
Your explanation is elegant and simple, and I think there’s a lot of truth to it. The steady decline in fertility across many different cultures lends support to this view. As wealth of a given society increases, basic survival becomes easier and old age becomes easier. Across cultures, those are perhaps the two biggest personal reasons people historically had so many children – to tend the crops, and to assure parents they would be cared for in old age. People living in ages past weren’t all fools; they saw how many children died young, so they had more of them as a kind of insurance. Division of labor, industrialization, and the rise of institutions to care for the sick and the old greatly reduce the need for children. All this is inevitably followed by women’s desire to free themselves of the hard work of having and raising kids. I think reductions in fertility are inevitable everywhere, even in cultures that officially encourage more births.
LikeLike
Just to point out that you shouldn’t ignore abortion and its availability whenever discussing birthrates.
LikeLike
Bhetti:
An abortion isn’t recorded as a birth. It’s… an abortion, or a miscarriage.
We do, however, have to take account of the death rate. A society constantly at war and taking losses, or beset by a high early-life disease mortality rate has to have a high fertility rate just to keep the overall numbers stable. See Somalia, Afghanistan, et. al.
LikeLike
> That was a fascinating article, JAM. Thanks.
You’re quite welcome, omw. Evolutionary theory is often brilliant in its simplicity… and yet it really only depends on a handful of conditions:
1) there exists an environment;
2) there exists a population of individuals;
3) that population of individuals varies; and
4) traits in individuals are transmitted from generation to generation; and
5) those that are better adapted to the environment survive at higher rates and have more offspring.
That’s it! Elegant and simple, yet very powerful. It applies to genetic units, cultural units, even idea units.
And it unmasks inconvenient truths and possibilities. Pretty lies perish.
It’s not a perfect explanation for everything… but it’s a pretty good place to start for many things.
LikeLike
Yea good article Jam.
LikeLike
JAM:
Someone already posted that article a few months ago. Here’s what I wrote about it back then:
It doesn’t matter how much conservatives are breeding if their kids will eventually be sucked into the vortex of decadence. Modern culture and the ideology of modern liberalism — in the American sense of the word, i.e. the modern mainstream Left — are so irresistibly attractive to a great majority of young people that they will usually overpower any conservative influences of their parents and other older members of their family and community.
The above article might have a point when it comes to the global competition between societies, some of which are still successfully censoring the influx of Western culture, or have been significantly exposed to it only in very recent times. He might also have a point when it comes to extremely insulated and ghettoized religious minorities. However, because of the above mentioned reasons, it’s a complete delusion to think that demographic mechanisms can move the mainstream of the Western societies in a more conservative direction.
LikeLike
JAM:
Evolutionary theory is anything but simple. By this I mean the actual science of the evolutionary theory, not the naive folkish beliefs, simplistic caricatures, and naive misunderstandings that are commonly presented under that moniker.
Generally speaking, there are three categories of laymen who talk a lot about evolution:
(1) religious creationists who attempt to disprove the evolutionary theory because it clearly contradicts their religion;
(2) leftists who use the evolutionary theory as a beating stick against traditional religions, but are blind to the fact that it has equally horrific implications for their own worldview;
(3) “race-realistis” and pop-sociobiologists who concoct elaborate quasi-scientific theories that sound cool because they are politically incorrect.
Among these three groups, it’s hard to say which one is the worst in its typical level of misunderstanding and willful ideological blindness. However, any layman who wants to discuss evolution would do well to remember that people who are vastly more knowledgeable about the subject can be found in all three ideological groups, which should suggest some humbleness.
LikeLike
Vladimir
Wrong. Clearly wrong.
Race realists, if the people in question really are as opposed to being white nationalists masquerading as such, are clearly the least misunderstanding of evolution, and in fact, often very understanding indeed.
Race realists get there through reading about the science, rather than using what snipets they can find to bolster childhood pre formed views. They are typically skeptics and anti-dogmatists generally. Most of the researchers in the area are race realists, often soto voce. To bring the message to a popular audience is professional suicide, whatever your profession is (if it can legitimately be called that) in these PC times. See e.g. the treatment of one of the foremost founders of modern genetics, the co-discoverer of DNA and nobel prize winner James Watson, who implied to a British journalist that genetics probably had a lot to do with why it’s difficult for Africa to develop as rapidly as many other areas of the world. Despite is apologies to the PC orthodoxy, he was forced to resign from the chairmanship of the Cold Springs Harbor Institute, affiliated with SUNY, but nonetheless one of the leading genetics research institutes in the country, which he built up from scratch over the last several decades.
LikeLike
Oh the treatment was that he was forced to resign. Completely. Kicked out of there.
For telling what everyone in the field knows is the truth.
LikeLike
Well the large majority. Religion still has a hold on more than a few.
LikeLike
dougjnn:
Oh, come on. They’re as attached to their pet theories and dogmas as the most ardent PC leftists. The fact that their views are politically unpopular, and in some countries even illegal, says nothing about the truth of their claims. Even in the most ideologically rigid and dogmatic regimes, most of the ideas that get censored or persecuted are still false on their own merit.
Mind you, I’ll readily agree that evolutionary theory clearly has at least some severely un-PC implications, and even some of the extremely controversial theories that are taken as starting point by “race realists” might be true, for all I know. However, the ideologically driven urge to find the desired result is clearly visible in their work, just as much as in the work of their most extreme critics. Yes, the current establishment hates the former and likes the latter, but so what?
And how would you know that?
LikeLike