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Lies About Women Who Love Abusers

Like a dispatched army of obfuscators and purveyors of palatable lies, the fembot foot soldiers were marching in locktstep after news broke of Rihanna’s return to the violently abusive man she deeply loves. The lies, pop culture psychoanalysis and threadbare excuses were flying left and right.

“It’s really hard for a woman to leave an abuser. Where will she go? How will she survive?”

“He’s controlling/manipulative. She was too weak to resist that.”

“He wears down her self-esteem. Eventually, she depends on the beatings to feel loved, and the cycle continues.”

Grade A bullshit. How do I know this? Easy. A simple thought experiment will suffice to aid understanding.

When a woman wants to leave a beta boyfriend/husband who makes her life a misery, is it:

a. hard for her to leave him?

b. impossible because she won’t be able to survive on her own/find a place to live?

c. difficult because she can’t resist his mind control?

d. not going to happen because she depends on his beta behavior to validate her self-esteem? or

e. pretty fucking easy for her to walk out the door/sign the divorce papers?

It’s amazing the verbal calisthenics humans will go through to avoid facing up to a disconcerting truth. Fembots especially; they’ve got so much invested in the prevailing shibboleths that to turn their backs on them now in this crucial matter of why women return to abusers would amount to a repudiation of the holy foundation of dyke dogma — that women are not responsible for their choices, and that a woman’s sexual nature is a moral paragon to ceaselessly celebrate. Rihanna, like so many women, runs back into the arms of her beatdown boyfriend because…

wait for it…

she loves him.

And she loves him more because he hits her. This explains why, despite immense family and social pressure (really, an entire country’s worth of social pressure) to leave Chris Brown, and despite the likelihood of future painful beatings at his hands, Rihanna could not ignore the pull of her heart. Love is too powerful an emotion to be swayed by the blunt tools of shame, reason, or even fear.

Superficially, the red-faced excusers may be describing some element of psychological reality that happens in the heads of women like Rihanna. But they are only teasing around the edges. Full understanding eludes them because they miss the core motivation — the emotional juggernaut — that animates the woman who willingly makes herself vulnerable to a physically abusive lover. They refuse to acknowledge this because in their minds it says something unflattering about women they’d rather not know.

On a related note, I am not surprised that the usual suspects who comment on this blog haven’t come out and condemned Rihanna for rushing back into the arms of Brown. The sound of silence is deafening…

In other news, a British model spoke about a two-year relationship with a man who put her in the hospital for a week.

The Liverpudlian beauty was a teenage model when she started dating her abusive ex, who she has declined to name.

She’s still protective of him. Love will do that to a girl.

752 Responses

  1. on March 9, 2009 at 12:09 pm ironrailsironweights

    Now there are some reports that Brown may be allowed to plead guilty to relatively minor charges, basically because Rihanna started the whole thing and was a co-aggressor.

    Peter

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  2. I had a friend in college, a solid 8.5/9, who was getting her ass beat on a regular basis. It was sad, really. She would ‘whup any bitches’ ass’, first thing, but if her man hit her, she came crying to us. I didn’t get it.

    I told my boyfriend I “would fucking kill him” if he laid a hand on me. I think that pretty much took care of it, but, then again, he doesn’t have violent tendencies.

    *shrug*

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  3. this topic is getting boring

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  4. The more I know about women, the less I like them.

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  5. YAWN. You already made all these points, in various posts last week. No need to beat a dead horse, unless you’re just looking for attention from the fembots/betas who missed out on the thrashings from two weeks ago. Better off leaving on a high note, keeping it classy.

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  6. This story has a nearly perfect parallel example in the life story of the recently departed Gonzo writer/journalist Hunter S. Thompson. Two facts about him stand out: 1. He had amazing success getting an endless string of smart, attractive, highly literate young women to fall in love with him, well into his sixties and 2. He was easily the most violent man any of them had ever known.
    A number of these women were interviewed for a recent book. Some of them worked in Media. They ALL rambled on about how he was such a good listener or that they could see a nice little boy needing love hiding deep under the rough exterior.
    The only remaining question is in regard to the level of awareness they really had as to what was driving their lust. The funny thing is that women would get a lot more of what they need in this regard if they just were more honest about it. Ah, but leverage they would give up…

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  7. Rum, has the interview book been released? If so, what’s the name of it?

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  8. You guys should check out Watchmen. There’s some deep Alpha / Beta play in that movie. The professor, the blue energy guy is Alpha in the movie. A darker alpha, is who they call the comedian, the dude that gets killed in the beginning of the film. He gets a chick pregnant later that he almost raped earlier. Finally, the beta is the guy with the glasses. The give the classic hollywood bullshit though and make them get together. You guys gotta check that movie out and how the women react to the men in the movie. Excellent show on the Chris Brown issue.

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  9. on March 9, 2009 at 1:07 pm Ba1anced-A Beta with Alpha Tendencies

    You should check out Watchmen. Theres some deep Alpha / Beta play in that movie. The professor, the blue energy guy is Alpha in the movie. A darker alpha, is who they call the comedian, the dude that gets killed in the beginning of the film. The beta is the guy with the glasses. You guys gotta check that movie out and how the women react to the men in the movie.

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  10. Hunter S also got the shit beat out of him by Hell’s Angels, then, cried like a bitch. He also blew his brains out. Hunter also got fucked because he was…wait for it…famous. Sorry, this is my standard routine every time “Gonzo” is used tiresomely in the same sentence as his name.

    Rihannanana got assbeat bc her beta sistahood spoke ill of Brown to dissuade their relationship – he got mad and beat her ass.

    Media Hype. I recall her injuries described as “horrific” by the moronic media. She just looks bad without her makeup

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  11. I don’t see what Roissy accomplishes by highlighting how easily women ditch their relationships with betas. By the time a woman is ready to bolt, the beta is either unwilling or unable to do anything to command her respect. Thugs who beat up their girlfriends/wives aren’t dealing with respect so much as obedience. That some men are willing to debase themselves before women doesn’t say anything about other relationships in which women have reason to be afraid.

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  12. Rum,

    although I wouldn’t be surprised by it, I have never heard anything about Hunter Thompson beating up his women…i watched a documentary on his life “Gonzo: The life and times of….” and the women were very eager to forgive his violence and bipolarity b/c of what they perceived of as genius. As you mentioned, the cited his compassion on one end and his violence and anger on the other.

    Also, I heard that Oprah came out Friday and basically told Rihanna “He will hit you again.” And that’s the truth.

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  13. on March 9, 2009 at 1:17 pm dredd nought

    Chloe,

    “I told my boyfriend I “would fucking kill him” if he laid a hand on me. I think that pretty much took care of it, but, then again, he doesn’t have violent tendencies.”

    Then again, are you sure that’s not your way of testing a man, asking for it? If he actually had the balls (aka tendencies) to get violent, are you really so sure you’d “kill” him (or, even reciprocate the violence)?

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  14. Women just are not these nice, pure creatures. I had a situation that happened this Saturday.

    I’m out with my friends. I’m not having a particularly good night, but I’m talking to people and having a reasonable time. I end up dancing with some 6s and 7s around midnight.

    Then, this tall blonde, a solid 8.5 in her early 20s, comes on to the dance floor, busts into the group and starts dancing right up on me. Then she pulls me away from the group and starts asking me questions:

    “What’s your name?”
    “Where are you from?”
    “What do you do?”

    I ask the same questions back and find out she is from out of town.

    Then comes the kicker:

    “I’m not usually this forward, but I’ve been looking at you all night. I want you to tell me what you are going to do to me tonight. I want you to to be honest. I like it when guys are honest. Text me in exactly 9 minutes and meet me by the bar.”

    Of course, I just completely collapse and nothing happens.

    Gentlemen, I never, ever would have believed that something like this could happen to me. It was totally out of my reality. Hot woman just don’t come up to you and ask you to go home with them after a five minute conversation. It doesn’t happen.

    I swear to God I will never look at women the same. It’s one thing to know this stuff in theory and say to yourself, “Yeah, that’s probably the way it is,” and it is another thing entirely to actually experience it. I was walking around in a daze all day yesterday.

    Again, 5 minutes!

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  15. Firepower

    “Hunter S also got the shit beat out of him by Hell’s Angels, then, cried like a bitch.”

    Interesting you bring that up. He got ass-beat because he stepped in the middle of a Hell’s Angel beating up his woman. They turned on him, telling him to mind his own business, then beat his ass. To me, that takes balls.

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  16. on March 9, 2009 at 1:20 pm stimulus package

    On a related note, I am not surprised that the usual suspects who comment on this blog haven’t come out and condemned Rihanna for rushing back into the arms of Brown. The sound of silence is deafening…

    They may be so worked up themselves-what with all the contemplation of deep dark desires-that they cant keep their tremulous hands on the keyboard,but instead cant help but reach for their pudenda,all aquiver with excitement.

    The internet,Roissy,and a declining economy,all in combination,are about to award us with quite a spectacle indeed.Reminds me of a quote,inspired as I am by my feminine muse:

    Woman is a temple,built above a sewer.”

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  17. Ah, I think I just heard the sound of another pretty lie perish.

    I think Roissy put this one to bed.

    Next.

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  18. Woman is a temple built above a sewer.

    Ah, Tertullian. The African madman.

    Those early Christian theologians, despite being out of favour with the PC crowd, had much wisdom to dispense about sexuality.

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  19. Rihanna has a serious thug fetish. Is anyone surprised that this is happening to the same woman who put out this video?

    One of her songs is even titled “I’ve got a thug in my life.”

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  20. I told my boyfriend I “would fucking kill him” if he laid a hand on me. I think that pretty much took care of it, but, then again, he doesn’t have violent tendencies.

    No one is impressed that you can bully your faggy boyfriend, except maybe other bitter, ugly bull-dykes, resentfully trapped in unsatisfying relationships with beta boyfriends.

    This kind of failure disguised as grrrl-power is embarrassing to everyone forced to read it, because it’s obvious you’d be more relieved than anyone to have the kind of boyfriend who was psychologically and physically ready and able to lay down the law in all of his relationships, male or female, pimp-hand style or otherwise.

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  21. “She went on to date a number of footballers.”

    Heh.

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  22. @ dredd nought

    “Then again, are you sure that’s not your way of testing a man, asking for it? If he actually had the balls (aka tendencies) to get violent, are you really so sure you’d “kill” him (or, even reciprocate the violence)?”

    Okay, so I realize that it’s part of Game to think a girl means the opposite of what she said, but, alas, no. I meant what I said. I’m cool with a little ‘horseplay’ in the bedroom, but, if anybody lays a hand on me in the wrong way, they WILL get a frying pan upside the head.

    “This be the realest shit I ever wrote.”
    Tupac

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  23. on March 9, 2009 at 1:48 pm 100 Miles and Running

    —Those early Christian theologians, despite being out of favour with the PC crowd, had much wisdom to dispense about sexuality.—

    And as another early Xtian father once said: “All true education begins with physical punishment.”

    Yea, verily, it does.

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  24. @ Rain And

    “This kind of failure disguised as grrrl-power is embarrassing to everyone forced to read it, because it’s obvious you’d be more relieved than anyone to have the kind of boyfriend who was psychologically and physically ready and able to lay down the law in all of his relationships, male or female, pimp-hand style or otherwise.”

    Uh, no. Again, I made it very clear that I would fucking kill him, and I meant it.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

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  25. Chuck

    Any male that chooses his “beloved charming intended” from the ranks of Angels deserves to get his ass stomped. If that takes balls, lend them your own.

    Don’t you know, it’s fucking alpha to mind YOUR OWN business when others are talking.

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  26. “Uh, no. Again, I made it very clear that I would fucking kill him, and I meant it.

    Why is that so hard to understand?”

    Because they want to give you the benefit of the doubt, that you aren’t truly that repulsive.

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  27. The best source on HST is the book “Gonzo” edited by Jann Wenner.
    Yes, he hit women. Routinely
    Yes, he was famous. But lots of guys are much more famous and certainly more wealthy.

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  28. Thursday – haha nice story. Hot women rarely are that aggressive but it happens from time to time. I’m betting you are tall, and have a boyish/handsome face. That’s really the only plausible scenario which would lead a hot girl to cold approach. No matter how much you “peacock” or how cool your body language projects you to be – only the real deal genetic goods, sticking out amongst the teaming mediocrity on the dance floor, will inspire that behavior.

    I can relate a similar story to you. In my very early twenties, when I didnt really know what I was doing, a sexy thing with a 7 face and 9 body just came from across the bar, singled me out of my group of dudes and said, “you’re really cute, let’s dance”. She rubbed her ass and hands all over me, blatantly pawing at my package. Placing my hands on the side of her tits. I was kind of in a daze. She was a whirlwind…saying sexy shit, asking me if I liked her body, what I wanted to do to her, etc.. Very hot…. guys all over were staring at her. She had large, well-formed (fake), but awesome looking tits attached to a toned, tall hourglass figure. After maybe 10 minutes of dancing and talking we left the bar. I got her home, got her naked, fooled around and I was putting on a condom when suddenly her demenor changed and she said she needed to go leave. I passed out and woke up the next morning thinking it was a dream. I ended up going on a date with her the next week and discovered she and I were incompatible – she was a vapid, politico type, whose dogmatic worldview was insufferable, esp with her limited intellect. In any I never called her back…

    My hindsight analysis, is that she was a late bloomer in her attractiveness, she has a high libido and obviously aggressive… Throw in some alcohol and… voila. That night she perhaps she was horny/lonely. She had a few drinks and acted on impulse. We all do that right? Even a hot women from time to time. When she sobered up after fooling around her defense mechanisms kicked back in. I dunno. Perhaps a more experienced version of myself wouldve close the deal. Regardless, it was learning experience. At the time I didnt know women could act like that.

    I guess I would ask…how intoxicated did you lady appear to be? Bottomline, its a it goes against type, but it does happen. Banking on it to happen is a fools game though. That’s my two cents.

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  29. Roissy, your thought experiment doesn’t prove anything. (And we should all be glad that most of the world that matters doesn’t come to conclusions based on “thought experiments” like this.)

    Rather than spouting theories based on wild speculation, or one experience of your own, why not go down and volunteer for a few weeks at a domestic violence shelter? You’ll learn how much those women are in love with their boyfriends/husbands *because* they get beat.

    I have worked with such a place, and met several women who have been in long-term abusive relationships, and in my experience it’s exactly the opposite. They may still love their abusers, and be convinced that they are still loved by them. (And hell, on some level they may be right about that.) But it’s always in spite of the abuse. And mixed in with all of that is a desperate desire to get away.

    I’m not saying it’s impossible there are freaks (both male and female) out there who really thrive when being hit on a regular basis. But if you think that’s the norm you’re insane.

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  30. Firepower:

    HST jumped into a situation in which he felt a woman was being viciously beated by her man. He called the man out on it. However the fuck you want to spin it, right or wrong, it takes balls to step up and call out a guy backed up by 20 other Hell’s Angels. Not many would do that.

    And great comeback on the “mind your own business” thing there. I guess that can serve as a shitty proxy for a valid point. You really showed me. Also, sorry I didn’t recognize your “talking” for all of the shit flowing out of your “mouth”.

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  31. acordeon

    Have you ever encountered a situation where a certified “abusive” guy did not have a girlfriend? How often do so called abused women go onto a relationship with a thoroughly safe guy?

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  32. Goldenseed:

    I am a pretty good looking guy, but only 5’11”. I was wearing a tight, very shiny blue-green shirt.

    She was drinking, but definitely _not_ drunk.

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  33. acordeon: You’re suffering from a fairly typical fallacy in regards to human behavior, which is taking people at their word, not their actions.

    I don’t have the slightest idea what is the “true” relationship between abuse and attraction/love. (I suspect a positive relationship exists, but it peters off the more abusive a relationship gets.) But just because women go to shelters in response to abuse, doesn’t mean they aren’t attracted to their men because of it. Its not socially acceptable to love an abuser, and its definitely not socially acceptable to love as a result of abuse. It costs women nothing to say “I love him but I wish the abuse would end” as a nod to society, but that has nothing to do with their actual reaction to the abuse.

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  34. on March 9, 2009 at 2:27 pm Ode to the married man

    I am not surprised that the usual suspects who comment on this blog haven’t come out and condemned Rihanna for rushing back into the arms of Brown. The sound of silence is deafening…

    She disgusts me.
    She is a thugette herself.
    I speculate that she was slapped around as a child, that she’s hit Brown, and that she’ll continue to hit him. She’ll quote the bible “spare the rod” as she hits her children in the future. Regardless of how she understands “love” and attraction, she’s responsible for her own decisions.

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  35. 50% of women go back to an abusive relationship

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  36. Is that really why the Hell’s Angels beat up Hunter S. Thompson?

    I read that book a long time ago.

    I though it was because they just got sick of him and had a change of heart as far as the book was concerned.

    – MPM

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  37. “Uh, no. Again, I made it very clear that I would fucking kill him, and I meant it.

    Why is that so hard to understand?”

    Because you infuse your statement with such raw emotion. The emotion you will probably feel when encountered by someone stronger than you, with the guts to hit you, someone who you felt safe with, is…

    Fear.

    And since you already made a strong, emotional statement, it’d be pretty safe to bet that you’d give in to the fear, and do very little if your man actually hit you.

    But that’s only a guess based off of one statement. Who knows how anyone would REALLY react? All we have to go by is the stats, and the stats probably say that most women stay with their abusive men for a long time. A sad truth if that’s the case, but a truth nonetheless.

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  38. on March 9, 2009 at 2:40 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    Roissy, I know you often say it more ironically than anything else, but your blog really is a public service to the betas and feminist indoctrinated masses. It’s funny how male sexuality is so constantly demonized as violent, domineering, and subversive, yet female sexuality seems to be portrayed as completely golden and pure, and women like Rihanna are simply crazy weirdos. Female sexuality is as dark in nature as male. The correlation between sex and violence wasn’t invented by men, as the feminists have been jamming down our throat for decades. Human nature is an ugly thing, but for some reason people seem to want to believe this only applies to men.

    So thank you, Roissy, for kicking down the pedestal and revealing the evil truths about female sexuality and nature. Excellent blog.

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  39. Rhianna is just one more reason guys don’t like black women.

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  40. on March 9, 2009 at 2:47 pm russell rodriguez

    “Okay, so I realize that it’s part of Game to think a girl means the opposite of what she said, but, alas, no. I meant what I said. I’m cool with a little ‘horseplay’ in the bedroom, but, if anybody lays a hand on me in the wrong way, they WILL get a frying pan upside the head.”

    you mean that youd take a frying pan and make a fried bologna sandwich

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  41. You guys should check out Watchmen. There’s some deep Alpha / Beta play in that movie. The professor, the blue energy guy is Alpha in the movie. A darker alpha, is who they call the comedian, the dude that gets killed in the beginning of the film. He gets a chick pregnant later that he almost raped earlier. Finally, the beta is the guy with the glasses. The give the classic hollywood bullshit though and make them get together. You guys gotta check that movie out and how the women react to the men in the movie. Excellent show on the Chris Brown issue.

    Dr Manhattan was the uber alpha in the movie.

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  42. Saying she loves him BECAUSE he hits her is going too far. If that were the case, then a guy could get any woman to love him solely by punching her in the face. That’s not true, so your assertion is false.

    I’ll let you have that there’s something primal and socially uncomfortable going on when women consistently go back to abusive guys when they clearly have other options. But it’s something that has to be based on an existing attraction/desire for the guy.

    I don’t know why this is so crucial to you, but we get it. Move on or just fess up that you actually WANT to hit women. It’s getting to be pretty obvious that you aren’t interested in stating amoral truths about this but really have some sort of axe to grind.

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  43. Manhattan was hilarious from a Game standpoint. He pretended to be all disconnected from humanity the more time went on, yet was connected enough to start schtupping a 16 year old while married to a rapidly aging wife.

    Ozy’s scheme was to disconnect Manhattan from humanity through giving his loved ones cancer and blaming Manhattan, but he never gave it to Silk Spectre II. I think the elephant in the room was that what really disconnected Manhattan the most was having a hot piece of ass dump him. Ozy knew that keeping Manhattan consumed with work would totally drive Silk Spectre II off.

    Speaking of which, who was hotter: Manhattan’s 1st wife, Silk Spectre I (in prime, of course), or Silk Spectre II?

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  44. Rum and Michael Wearing a Hat:

    I’ll assume you guys are arguing in good faith here, not just playing devil’s advocate.

    As far as I can see, your argument boils down to: you can never really know what a person’s true motivations are, based on what they say. That’s true as far as it goes. Believe it or not, I already was aware of that.

    I’m not basing it just off of that, but off of their behavior as well. I don’t think these women were in the shelter just to get the approval of society. I think they were there because they feared for their safety, and in several cases, that of their children. It takes a lot to tear your life and family apart, pack your shit up and throw your lot in with a stranger at a social service agency. I don’t think most folks would do that simply out of a sense of social shame.

    I’d really like to know where you guys get your certainty about this. Maybe you’ve hit women yourselves, and maybe they haven’t left you. That doesn’t prove anything. Very small sample size.

    I see it frequently in the few months since I’ve started reading this blog. If person X says something that goes against your conception of human nature, they must be lying or in denial. If they say something you agree with, they’re facing up to the truth. Seems like a circular argument to me.

    And Black Eye, where are you getting that statistic?

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  45. —And Black Eye, where are you getting that statistic?—

    Here:

    http://www.uwstout.edu/rs/2007/Abusive%20Relationships.pdf

    “According to Hilbert and Hilbert (1984) and Strube (1998), an estimated half of women who have been involved in an abusive relationship will at some point return to the batterer (as cited in Martin, Berenson, Griffing, Sage, Madry, Bingham, & Primm, 2000)”

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  46. acordeon: I’m not at all certain about it, but theres a lot of logic behind thinking that there is some basis for a positive relationship between violence and attraction. And remember that I said that relationship fails beyond a certain point, which also makes sense: violence proves alpha qualities which makes a man an attractive mate, but when that violence reaches the point of truly endangering the long-term health of the woman and her children, the man ceases to be an attractive mate.

    Thats the main problem with making your decisions based off the experience of working with women at shelters, because those women have self-selected to be BEYOND the crossover point, where violence ceases to be an attraction and instead becomes a threat. That doesn’t say anything about attraction and violence in general, it only speaks towards the experience and feelings of the women who actually go to the shelters.

    And again, it doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t still attracted to the man because of the violence. It just means that the dangers from the violence now outweigh the general attraction qualities the man possesses.

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  47. “get a frying pan upside the head.”

    you aren’t going to do shit, you fat bitch

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  48. On a related note, I am not surprised that the usual suspects who comment on this blog haven’t come out and condemned Rihanna for rushing back into the arms of Brown. The sound of silence is deafening…

    AHEM!!!

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  49. acordeon

    You ignored my questions. Perhaps you could not in good faith give accurate answers because you have no easy way to have such information.
    Leaving rhetorical questions behind, I will straight out tell you that based on my own experience the kind of guys from whom women seek DV shelter do not lack a steady stream of female interest. It is almost an oxymoron for an “abusive” guy to be lonely because of it. This needs more serious thought than you appear to have given to it.
    One thing that skews all DV statistics is that certified victims routinely end up with another guy who smacks them around. It is very much the same women over and over again. So, who is looking for whom?
    40% of DV is initiated by the woman. Why? What is she trying to get the guy to do? Does she think she will win the fight and be the boss?

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  50. [Rihanna] is just one more reason guys don’t like black women.

    She’s actually pretty hot. At least an 8.5. Like most hot black women though, she has a substantial amount of white blood.

    She is a thugette herself.

    Ain’t that the truth. See the video I posted above.

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  51. Thursday —

    “I’m not usually this forward, but I’ve been looking at you all night. I want you to tell me what you are going to do to me tonight. I want you to to be honest. I like it when guys are honest. Text me in exactly 9 minutes and meet me by the bar.”

    Of course, I just completely collapse and nothing happens.

    Gentlemen, I never, ever would have believed that something like this could happen to me. It was totally out of my reality. Hot woman just don’t come up to you and ask you to go home with them after a five minute conversation. It doesn’t happen.

    Bro, you mean you let that 8.5 get away!!

    The likely explanation is that for whatever reason, on the particular night when she was on “foreign” soil and hence her rep was very unlikely to be effected, she really wanted to get laid — and she hadn’t been that happy with the guys that had tried to pick her up. So she just said screw it, picked you out by looks and remotely observed moves, qualified you a bit by dancing then talking for those five minutes, and then threw you a final, cut to the chase test that was really too straight up to qualify as a shit test. She pretty much straight up asked you how vigorously and with how much imagination you were going to fuck her, with only slightly more indirection than that.

    And then you choked???!!

    You won’t next time, right?

    Hey she might often be this much of a slut or she might not be. Maybe she just had a huge, this is or may be the end fight with her boyfriend. Or she caught him cheating. Or she caught her husband cheating and went on the prowl with her wedding ring off.

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  52. the problem is “abuse” is thrown around to easily. i had a fight with my husband once that was very heated, he was saying atrocious things and i started screaming at him really really loud near the door. he bounded over and backhanded me, like you would a hysterical person. it didn’t really hurt or leave a mark, but it shocked me into shutting up after which much long discussion ensued. at no point did i even consider leaving him over it nor do i consider it to have been abuse. he is a dependable, faithful man who is extremely vigilant, protective and dominant. i love these traits and realize that other traits, like a penchant for violence or control, travel on the same gene (metaphorically)

    it wasn’t right or wrong of him to do it–we have a human relationship and it happened.

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  53. Michael, you’re right that my experience doesn’t prove that some (or even most) women aren’t “still attracted to the man because of the violence”.

    But I have yet to hear how the experience of anyone on these threads goes any length toward proving this is true. Seems the burden of proof is on Roissy (and those of you who agree with him) here, since he’s the one making some pretty broad generalizations about human nature.

    And I get your idea about the degree of violence. I can’t say with absolute certainty that isn’t how it works, but I don’t think you can say that that is how it works. (My hunch is that the “average” tolerance for violence is much lower than you think it is, and that the reasons for tolerating it may be different than you think.)

    I’ve known several women who have been in the situation of being hit repeatedly. How many of you can say the same? What perspective are you bringing to the table beyond just firm belief in your own world-view?

    IMO this discussion has suffered from a tendency to over-simplify human behavior. Don’t we usually (always?) have more than one motivation for doing something? Even if we took it as true that some women are attracted to men with the demonstrated capacity for violence, why should we assume that this is the only factor at work in the decision whether to stay with him?

    To put it another way: is everything a man does (even in relation to sex/dating/women) determined only by the nature of his sexuality? I think even a minute’s introspection will tell you that it isn’t. Why should it be any different for women?

    Like


  54. To be clearer, something happened that made that blonde 8.5 REALLY want to get laid THAT NIGHT. Being on an out of town business trip made the urgency for her that much greater – it was a won’t get back to anyone opportunity that she might not have all the time.

    Being a hot blonde, she could be sure she did get laid that night. Too bad it wasn’t by you.

    Like


  55. i’m left with no other reason to understand other than it’s the ultimate neg. pure and simple. the true sign that the man simply does not give a FUCK.

    Like


  56. Thurday

    She’s actually pretty hot. At least an 8.5. Like most hot black women though, she has a substantial amount of white blood.

    I agree with all three sides of that. She is hot, she does look like she has a lot of white blood in her (skin color, nose, facial structure), more than half actually, and yes re: most “black” girls that look hot.

    Like


  57. Rum, I admit I don’t have a lot of perspective on that.

    But what exactly are you trying to say? So you’ve known some guys who hit girls, and then they get more girls. Are you saying that the new girls have heard about the bruises and are waiting in line to get some of their own?

    What makes you think they’re attractive because of the violence?

    Like


  58. I see we’re back on the “only Black Women who look White are hot” stuff again. Four words:

    Thomas Jefferson

    Strom Thurmond

    Comments?

    O

    Like


  59. “She’s actually pretty hot. At least an 8.5. Like most hot black women though, she has a substantial amount of white blood.”

    —She’s at best cute, not hot; a personal trainer, a lot of make up, and wigs/hair straightening help. But her schnozz is Jewish-girl-pre-sweet-16-gift-surgery and it takes a lot to hide it/ditsract from it.

    What I meant by that wasn’t look, it was attitude; Rhianna is exhibiting many of the unattractive traits black women have: unnatural sense of self-worth combined with a taste for behavior that is of the scummiest. All she needs to do now is snap her fingers, yell “you don’t know me, don’t judge me” and walk out of her Maury Povich interview.

    Men don’t like black women by and large because they are unfeminine, ugly, and loud, stupid, rude, and want men who act like beasts, not men. And then expect people to sympathize with them and support them for their own poor choices.

    Rhianna got rid of her fat and is tolerably cute, but the rest is still there.

    Like


  60. acordeon, Roissy is just as entitled to his beliefs as you are to yours; none of them are particularly supported by anything like a quantitative academic study. I find your own beliefs highly suspect BECAUSE you know these women, and you’re taking the specific responses and behavior of them and generalizing. I’m theorizing based on pure logic because I recognize women and men and the way they behave in our ridiculously screwed-up culture is insanely complex, and any sort of generalizations based on the behavior of a few individuals will likely misinterpret the myriad factors at play.

    Just as an example, the society effect. I’m playing off of a genetic tendency to accept violence, but the cultural narrative of “women shouldn’t accept violence” will reduce the amount of violence a woman will accept.

    There is also the fact that a woman who believes or acts as though she is high quality will accept less violence. Thats because systematic unnecessary violence is a lesser-alpha behavior, possible even beta behavior, and high-quality women won’t accept lesser-alpha behavior. Which goes back to the whole “she has low self-esteem” issue.

    That could explain why Rihanna will marry Chris Brown, but women will run away from constant abusers. Regular abuse indicates weakness; contingent abuse indicates strength.

    Like


  61. dana —

    That’s very well said and hugs.

    If he had hauled off and slugged you in the face though, especially if he’d given you a big shiner or more if he’d bloodied or even broken your nose, you’d feel very differently, wouldn’t you? I’m not saying you’d leave your husband over that one occurrence, but I’m betting you see it very differently.

    There’s a big difference between physically and graphically demonstrating / asserting dominance, which can as you say be calming, and really trying to hurt a woman — or acting completely headless of the hurt you are likely to do.

    Another thing. None of this is something a beta should try at home. Seriously. It’s the last step, to be used rarely and with restraint. Always with everyone’s knowledge that you could easily do so much more but didn’t. I guarantee you that any beta including a higher beta who thinks he can help his move to alpha by hard slapping his screaming girlfriend is running a huge risk of being in a lot of trouble and a big one that she’ll leave you. Or endlessly make you grovel your apologies and pay in so many ways.

    You have to be coming from a place of clear alpha, and to be clear a physically dominant (as opposed to just rich) sort of alpha for this to work, and then it has to be restrained.

    Brown walked the edge with this one, and it may yet hurt his career. it all depends on her. Now that isn’t exactly how Rihanna’s hindbrain works on this but she lives in a social world, they both do, and it’s a feminist indocrinated one in this country. If he’d done it in Brazil for example, or probably still Spain, no freaking problem. But his is hyperfeminist America, and they’re in the high end public eye.

    Like


  62. Lurker,
    There you go *again*.

    Thomas Jefferson

    Strom Thurmond

    Any questions?

    O

    Like


  63. Obsidian, 2 phrases.

    1. outliers

    2. men will take what they can get.

    btw, Obsidian, are you denying my behavorial assessments? Not saying all, but even you must notice the pattern.

    Like


  64. Oh, there is also the fact that regular “beta” violence will get a guy killed in a tribal society, but guys who do it in our society largely get away with it. So when a girl first sees the violence or experiences it, she takes it as a sign of alpha qualities; genes don’t help her realize that betas are doing that shit all the time. But the longer she is in a relationship experiencing it, the more she realizes the violence is not a sign of power, but a sign of weakness.

    Like


  65. on March 9, 2009 at 4:06 pm Not this shit again

    —-Lurker,
    There you go *again*.

    Thomas Jefferson

    Strom Thurmond

    Any questions?

    O—

    You really, really need a new argument.

    Like


  66. to the doubters of my elegant theory for why women love abusers:

    why do you think it’s a commonly held belief that make-up sex is so amazing?
    hint: it’s not because the guy gets hornier after a fight.

    Like


  67. Lemme put it this way on Jefferson/Thurmond:

    1. As a man, we all desire to try the rainbow. Just once, we’d like to try a race we haven’t had before. Even if you’re not attracted to them normally, you’d like to nail a Chinese girl or French girl or Indian girl just to have been there.

    2. If a man has access to a pussy with little restraint or consequences, he will take it if nothing else sucks it out of him. Jeff/Thurmon held obvious power over black women in their society, and women weren’t putting out then on their dates.

    3. Rarity increases hunger. Like I said, fewer women putting out, but worse transportation and fewer people all around. Put you on a desert island with a only one 5 and after a few weeks she climbs to a 6-7. Gimme another month, she’s an 8.

    Like


  68. In other news, a British model spoke about a two-year relationship with a man who put her in the hospital for a week.

    Feed… the… scous-ers…

    Let-
    Them-
    Know-
    It’s-
    Christmas-
    Time!

    Like


  69. Obsidian,

    again, you use the same two men. if those two guys would have had as easy a time bedding white women (and we don’t know how many they did bed b/c it isn’t as compelling to talk about) they in all liklihood would have chosen the white women. this could be for the sheer fact that ppl are generally attracted to those of their own race. regardless, your bringing up two men who impregnated black women doesn’t do much to aid your argument.

    Like


  70. Lurker,
    I’m sorry I must’ve missed your point(s); please restate?

    But I do agree with you on one point-Men wil fuck just about anything. Hence, when Roissy recently put up a pic of Toccara, most White men here reported that they WOULD “hit it”. Damn skippy they would. Many of those same guys tried to argue that she would make their list insofar as being wifey was concerned, but my point was that it was irrelevant from an Evo pov-the ONLY thing that matters, is sending your genes into the future with the help of a sturdy enough Lass to get the job done. All those frilly things you White boys romanticize about are at best, extras. Not essentials.

    Holla back

    Obsidian

    Like


  71. Chuck,
    To the contrary, it does a great deal to advance my argument; both Men were, to say the least, ambivalent, if not virulently, in the case of Thurmond, against Black folks. Yet both Men saw fit enough not only to fuck Black Women, but to sire kids with them. I think that’s one heck of a compelling argument to use as a sledgehammer against those who squawk about how “not hot” Black Women are. Again, there are millions of lightskinned Black folks in this country, and have been for a very long time. Proof, that quite a few White guys thought Sistas who look a lot closer to Oprah and Queen Latifiah were quite hot to trot.

    Comments?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  72. Obsidian, I wouldn’t say Thurmond was against black folks, more like he liked having power over them. But that;s really splitting hairs in this case.

    And as for “fucking v. siring kids”: don’t see the difference. Then, as now, they weren’t going to force them to have abortions, so the only option was killing them.

    But 2 people do not a statistic make. Nor do we know whether it was just the lack of other options/power grab/ wanted to try it motif.

    Toccarra is a fat load and just an attempt by Banks/Co. to go along with the current anti-skinny campaign waged in fashion (which will fail, because clothes always look better on coat racks than rhinos). She, like the fat white chick, had pretty faces. Hence why men let them blow them, or maybe ifgo home only if extremely drunk. “I’ve never gone home with a fat chick, but I have woken up next to a few.”

    “All those frilly things you White boys romanticize about are at best, extras.”

    —No idea what that means, but all thsoe frilly things like not being fat, stupid, loud, rude, trashy, and loving crappy guys are things that make a woman attractive. You’re fooling yourself if you don’t think all those light-skinned blacks are either products of American free choice matings, instead of men being horny for the easiest slut in a time when women didn’t have sex, or else lgihter skinned black men from Africa (check it out, does happen—even redheads come from Africa).

    Like


  73. Sally Hemmings was at most 1/8 African. Supposedly she was Jefferson’s wife’s half-sister. She was described by her contemporaries as more or less European in appearance.

    You should pick another example in the place of Jefferson.

    Like


  74. G-Man
    You need to study American history more. While it is true what you say about SH, the point remains that per Men like Jefferson who made the rules, she still was BLACK. And, a slave. And, he never freed her OR the kids they made together either. Same deal wrt Washington. And so on. And so forth.

    Today, the average African American has upwards of 20% White blood/dna in their veins. Few would make the case that the bulk and mass of Black folks are in fact, White.

    My point again, is to note that White Men, when given the chance and there’s little threat of social censure or rebuke on the part of other whites, would fuck the you know what outta a Sistah who looks like Toccara just as quickly they would a White gal who looks like Keira Knightly. Perhaps even moreso. Its just that White Men seem to be much more sensitive about what the Jones’ would think-hence the downlow.

    Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  75. Obsedian —

    Jefferson

    You site as evidence that most white men are actually very attracted to a lot of entirely black women.

    That’s absurd in itself. It doesn’t even pretend to separate an individual very possibly anomalous case from a group mean or tendency. But beyond that:

    Sally Hemmings, Jefferson’s mistress, was more and maybe way more than half white. She was his beloved deceased wife Martha’s HALF SISTER for chrissakes.

    But don’t let facts interfere with your surmising.

    Like


  76. “The more I know about women, the less I like them.”

    Ditto. While Game is great and all, I am finding fewer and fewer things reasons to even make the whole exercise worthwhile.

    After a woman passes the age of reproduction (35), she no longer has value to society. A woman is a good mother IF she recognizes that having the father be a part of the child’s life is itself part of raising a child.

    The small fraction of women who work in jobs that actually contribute to society (doctors, the tiny fraction of women who are researchers or entrepreneurs or good executives, and the few women who are GOOD teachers) are the only women who still contribute to society after age 35. Women who work as lawyers, non-profit moochers, marketing/PR bullshitters do NOT qualify.

    So a woman has value to society after age 35 ONLY if :

    1) She is a good mother (which includes making sure the child has a good father)
    2) She is among the tiny fraction of women who work in jobs that add value.

    Unless at least one of these two conditions are met, a woman over 35 has no value to society.

    Like


  77. “Today, the average African American has upwards of 20% White blood/dna in their veins. Few would make the case that the bulk and mass of Black folks are in fact, White. ”

    I read that it is about 17% non-African DNA in today’s African Americans. This is mostly white, but includes native American, Aztec Mexican, etc.

    A lot of US whites also have a few percent of native American DNA in them.

    Native Americans, of course, are from Siberia, as genetic tests have proven.

    Like


  78. My point again, is to note that White Men, when given the chance and there’s little threat of social censure or rebuke on the part of other whites, would fuck the you know what outta a Sistah who looks like Toccara just as quickly they would a White gal who looks like Keira Knightly. Perhaps even moreso.

    Except that doesn’t make sense. There were only black slaves, not white slaves. So the owner was given the choice between fucking Toccara and all her sisters as much/often as he wanted on demand or having to woo, wine and dine Keira to wife her up and THEN fuck her.

    For it to work, he’d have to have equal access to both. Right?

    Like


  79. Obsidian —

    You need to study American history more.

    No you do. Actual American history, as opposed to the Afro ficitionalized version.

    If Sally Hemings was the daughter of John Wayles, then she was 3/4 white (quadroon), since she also had a white maternal grandparent. In 18th-century Virginia, such children’s legal status followed the position of their mothers under the doctrine of partus sequitur ventrum, no matter what their racial mixture and no matter how “white” they appeared or were by descent. Therefore Sally was a slave as her mother was.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemmings

    Like


  80. As per the one-drop rule, the first black President was not Barack Obama, but rather Warren G. Harding, almost 90 years prior.

    As per the Law of the Land at the time, Warren G. Harding was black.

    Like


  81. Rihanna is an average/unhealthy woman and Chris Brown is an average/unhealthy man. They “deserve” each other. I “wish” that she would instead be sending the “message” that any man who hits “her” is not going to get a second chance, but instead because of her fame, she’s sending another message heard far and wide that it’s okay be be average and unhealthy. And guess it is “okay” to be average/unhealthy but it sure ain’t great.

    Like


  82. Misandry is nothing new. How many of you have heard this children’s rhyme :

    Toads and snails and puppy dog’s tails, that’s what little boys are made of.

    Sugar and spice and everything nice, that’s what little girls are made of.

    Now, I am sure this rhyme is at least 50 years old, and maybe 100 years old. It is not new.

    Like


  83. I think it is indisputable that a woman gets attracted to a man who hits her.

    HOWEVER, she will still call the cops on the man, and the man will get arrested, get fired, go to court, etc. (as Chris Brown is).

    She can both be attracted to him and still get him arrested. The two are not mutually exclusive in the woman’s mind.

    So men should still NOT DO IT. It is useful to study this phenomenon for academic purposes, and then generate attraction through less risky avenues.

    Like


  84. Doug,
    Easy star, I aint Sara. And I was studying Black History-which IS AMERICAN HISTORY-before it became fashionable or safe for Whites to indulge in.

    Sally Hemmings was indeed Jefferson’s slave, and their kids were also slaves. This is documented. She was also considered Black, as were the mulattoes and octaroons in New Orleans. They were NOT considered, socially or legally, as White.

    Now, again: most White Males in this venue, said that if they had the chance, they would definitely fuck Toccara. In the great Evolutionary Game, that’s all the matters.

    Period.

    Thomas Jefferson.

    Strom Thurmond.

    Any questions?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  85. Tood —

    It’s Victorian English. Probably around 150 years old.

    Like


  86. I think what would make Chris Brown the winner of the ‘sexiest man in America’ title for 2009 is if he gave Rihanna a Glasgow smile*. He will generate attraction beyond anything a nice man like Brad Pitt could ever achieve.

    *for those of you who don’t know what a Glasgow smile is, think of Heath Ledger’s Joker portrayal.

    Like


  87. “Tood –

    It’s Victorian English. Probably around 150 years old.”

    Even worse. Brainwashing boys that they are undesirable elements.

    Like


  88. “2. men will take what they can get.”

    NO. Every man has a threshold below which they would rather be celibate, or spend time in Internet porn.

    For me, it is a 7. I will not fuck any woman below a 7, even if it means a very long time between chances.

    Other men may have a lower bar, but they all have a bar.

    Like


  89. Obsidian —

    Yes she was his slave. I never said or suggested otherwise. Others may have, I didn’t.

    She was also AT LEAST half white, and his disceased wife’s (who needless to say for the time was white) HALF SISTER. She was actually probably 3/4 white, as the passage I quote above indicates.

    The slave issue is entirely indirection when addressed to me.

    You referrenced her (by citing Jefferson) as some kind of “proof” that white men really are very attracted to full blooded black women, we on this board just don’t realize it, I guess is your implication.

    As for Afro-American history, yes of course it’s part of American history and has been researched and taught by whites as such for a long time, but yes of course increasingly since WWII. My implication was that the versions taught and written in Afro American studies departments often notoriously lack rigor or brook criticism, from certain or many other points of view.

    Like


  90. Sara —

    They “deserve” each other. I “wish” that she would instead be sending the “message” that any man who hits “her” is not going to get a second chance, but instead because of her fame, she’s sending another message heard far and wide that it’s okay be be average and unhealthy.

    It’s not ok to beat up your woman and cause her injury, or repeatedly really physically intimidate her, but it is ok to slap her.

    Or it is just about everywhere else outside of these hyper feminist United States (including Canada), and even here, just about everywhere outside of the white upper half mainstream. I.e. in the Afro American, Latino, or Asian communities.

    Like


  91. Doug,
    My point is very simple: the very same White boys who talk a mean game about which Women they would or wouldn’t get with, would lay pipe to Toccara in a heartbeat. Period. And she’s most definitely Black.

    To fuck as many different Women as humanly possible, is to be Male. The problem is, that a lot of American White Boys have lots of hangups around this point. They need to get over it.

    The End.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  92. Obsidian:

    1. As others have pointed out, Sally Hemmings was at least half white.

    2. Strom Thurmond strikes me as the kind of guy who would do anything. An indiscriminate horndog. He used to talk about “Pretty Hilary Clinton.”

    Personally, I don’t think it is the Africanness of full-blooded black women’s features that makes them less attractive. Rather full blooded black women just tend to be a bit too masculine. Too much testosterone. In fact, lots of them, particularly all those models Chic Noir links to, would make very handsome men. Mixed women tend to have the best of both world’s: the pleasingly exotic features and symmetrical faces from their black side with more softness and femininity from their white side.

    Like


  93. This is largely off topic but keep in mind that the vast majority of slaves thruout history have been white Europeans.
    One approach to the question of what kinds of women are attractive is to check on what is their literal market value as prostitutes or as paid on-line performers. There is little if any social pressure driving those price determinations – given the essential privacy of the transaction.

    Like


  94. Doug,
    I think your reply to Sara goes to support my own point about falling birthrates in the Eurosphere, and my contention that its in part attributable to the fact that White Males aren’t seen as “Man enough”-by their own Women. You mentioned that the Black, Asian etc, communities in Canada, deal with their Women far differently than do the White men. Now, if I follow your point correctly, that again, supports my thesis.

    Comments?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  95. on March 9, 2009 at 5:40 pm GNPs are for Apes

    “To fuck as many different Women as humanly possible, is to be Male. The problem is, that a lot of American White Boys have lots of hangups around this point. ”

    This merely reinforces the stereotype that most non-blacks already have : that black men will fuck anything.

    A white woman who is a 1 or 2 will not get a white man, but will get black men to fuck her. Even a black man who is getting a 9 will also fuck a 1 in between.

    For black men, it is only about quantity, not quality.

    Like


  96. on March 9, 2009 at 5:43 pm Tupac Chopra

    goldenseed:

    I can relate a similar story to you. In my very early twenties, when I didnt really know what I was doing, a sexy thing with a 7 face and 9 body just came from across the bar, singled me out of my group of dudes and said, “you’re really cute, let’s dance”. She rubbed her ass and hands all over me, blatantly pawing at my package. Placing my hands on the side of her tits. I was kind of in a daze. She was a whirlwind…saying sexy shit, asking me if I liked her body, what I wanted to do to her, etc.. Very hot…. guys all over were staring at her. She had large, well-formed (fake), but awesome looking tits attached to a toned, tall hourglass figure. After maybe 10 minutes of dancing and talking we left the bar. I got her home, got her naked, fooled around and I was putting on a condom when suddenly her demenor changed and she said she needed to go leave.

    Rapo Game:

    http://www.ericberne.com/games/games_people_play_rapo.htm

    Like


  97. Rum,
    Your point about Slavery worldwide and historically is duly noted.

    As to your other point, it should be noted that Black Women were often sought out as choice prostitutes back during slavery times in this country. Indeed, in New Orleans, the Black Ladies of the Evening were arguably the hottest pieces of poon around-and let’s keep in mind, their Johns were virtually 100% White.

    Thomas Jefferson.

    Strom Thurmond.

    I’m gonna keep saying it, because its true.

    Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  98. on March 9, 2009 at 5:44 pm Tupac Chopra

    Firepower:

    Any male that chooses his “beloved charming intended” from the ranks of Angels deserves to get his ass stomped. If that takes balls, lend them your own.

    Don’t you know, it’s fucking alpha to mind YOUR OWN business when others are talking.

    That’s something cowards say.

    Like


  99. > Sally Hemmings was indeed Jefferson’s slave, and their kids were also slaves. This is documented. She was also considered Black, as were the mulattoes and octaroons in New Orleans. They were NOT considered, socially or legally, as White.

    O: just to play devil’s advocate… why do you think Jefferson chose Sally Hemmings, out of all the slave pussy he commanded?

    Like


  100. but it is ok to slap her

    I’m sorry, but slapping women is the preserve of low IQ creatures who have yet to become civilized. And yes, a woman slapping a man in unacceptable too.

    I will never slap a woman, and I’d rather stay single than engage in such a low-class behaviour to maintain attraction to a woman. Quite frankly, I am better than that, and I have much too much pride, dignity, and self-respect to slide into the depths of trashiness.

    Like


  101. Gnp,
    Again, you like a few others here, are making some wild assumptions.

    First, I didn’t specify a particular race of Man-I simply said “Male”, and from that standpoint-proofed by history (Jefferson, Thurmond, etc et al)-Human Males will indeed, if they can, fuck as many Women, from as many different backgrounds, as possible. White Men are NOT immune from this. As so many of our lighter skinned brothas and sistas so clearly shows us all.

    So, its not a racial thing. Its a dick thing.

    Second, your notion about Black Men only screwing undesirable White Women is wrong, wrong, wrong. Black Men fuck all up and down the Female Attractiveness Scale. That includes the Heidi Klum 9s and 10s. Look it up. Black Men do not have the lock on boffing ugly chicks. Plenty of White guys do it too.

    Any further questions?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  102. She was also considered Black, as were the mulattoes and octaroons in New Orleans.

    Legal status is irrelevant. Only how they look is relevant.

    Like


  103. Obsidian
    Probably the best answer about “prices” is that it depends on time and place. And there is the fact that I do not know anyway.
    As to attractiveness, hot is hot. Every race produces winners and losers in that department. I am white, had a black girl friend once. The hotness was there but she saw everything that ever happened in the world thru a lense of race consciousness and it simply got old. Way too much effort.
    Is it just me or are Korean women uniquely un-hot?

    Like


  104. Thursday,
    No, legal status was quite relevant. SH was Black, the end. And she was treated as such, according to every historical record known about her.

    JAM,
    I have no idea why TJ chose SH as his “one and only”. We could of course speculate, and I suspect that you and/or others would like to make the case that it was because she was closer to White looking; perhaps. But here’s the trick: we don’t know who else TJ was boffing. For all we know, he could have been having a heck of a time with an Oprah lookalike. Hmm…

    Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  105. It’s funny how male sexuality is so constantly demonized as violent, domineering, and subversive, yet female sexuality seems to be portrayed as completely golden and pure, and women like Rihanna are simply crazy weirdos.

    I suspect it’s because men are the stronger, more violent sex, and generally one hears stories of men raping women, and rarely the other way around.

    Plus, as I’ve noted recently, I suspect that so men like myself are prone to presuming that no women like us due to the absolute lack of any real sign by these women towards us. Thus, since we don’t see women running up to us saying “fuck me”, we tend to presume that said women are sexless or just generally uninterested when in reality, they may actually have some interest towards us, but it’s not on blatant display.

    Like


  106. Rum,
    Question: in light of your disclosure about having dated a Black girl in the past, have you had any other such experiences with Black Women? And if so, would you mind sharing a bit about that?

    Thanks.

    O

    Like


  107. Obsidian:

    We are making the argument that mixed black/white women tend to be more attractive than full blooded black women. Both would have been considered legally black back in the day. Therefore legal status is not relevant to the discussion.

    Like


  108. on March 9, 2009 at 6:07 pm Wounded Animal

    Thomas Jefferson.

    Strom Thurmond.

    I’m gonna keep saying it, because its true.

    And you can say it all you want, but the persistence of markedly different phenotypes between negroes and whites shows that black-white pairings remain an outlier phenomenon. And as noted, it’s kind of an inapt example. Would you get the same number of pairings if the “barriers to entry,” for lack of a better term, were as low for white women were as for low, even slave-status negresses and mulattoes?

    Personally, I don’t find flared nostrils, thick lips, dark brown skin, mangled syntax, lower average IQ, higher average bodyweight, and an exaggerated sense of self-worth particularly attractive, but that’s just me.

    Like


  109. on March 9, 2009 at 6:07 pm Gunslingergregi

    See you still on your thing obsid

    “Black men. 44% of black men are “never married” compared to 42.7% of Black women.”

    Kind of relates to obsid.

    “According to the US Census Bureau. in 2007 there were 40.7 million Blacks in America of the total population of 301.6 million. That’s 13.4% of the total U.S. population. The black population exceeded 500,000 in 20 states. Blacks were the largest minority group in 24 states, compared with 20 states in which Hispanics were the largest minority group.”

    Such a small percentage so much “impact”

    “Only 29% of African American women are married, campared to 39% of African American males and 53% of all Americans. ”

    Where obsid becomes the sterotype and the truth. But dang who would of thought black woman would be so low on percentage married.

    Not a population explosion.

    “The projected single-race African American population of the United States in the year 2050. According to the projection, blacks would constitute 15% of the nation’s total population.”

    “Only 29% of African American women are married, campared to 39% of African American males and 53% of all Americans. ”

    Like


  110. on March 9, 2009 at 6:11 pm GNPs are for Apes

    Obsidian,

    You did not read what I said. Go read it again, slowly if that helps.

    I said ” Even a black man who is getting a 9 will also fuck a 1 in between. ”

    So yes, even a black man with a lot of options will fuck both a 9 and a 1. Chris Brown will fuck a 1 and Rihanna at the same time.

    So yes, black men will fuck up and down the attractiveness scale, as they will fuck anything.

    Most non-black men have a floor (whether 7, 6, 5, or 4) below which they would rather be celibate. Black men have no such floor. They will fuck an ugly woman even if they are also getting an attractive woman.

    Is that clear?

    Like


  111. Obsidian —

    My point again, is to note that White Men, when given the chance and there’s little threat of social censure or rebuke on the part of other whites, would fuck the you know what outta a Sistah who looks like Toccara just as quickly they would a White gal who looks like Keira Knightly. Perhaps even moreso.

    Yeah, we’ve all heard it ad nauseam and are sick of it.

    And you’re wrong.

    And you’re convincing none of us white guys that I’ve seen.

    Like


  112. > We are making the argument that mixed black/white women tend to be more attractive than full blooded black women. Both would have been considered legally black back in the day. Therefore legal status is not relevant to the discussion.

    Yes, with the proviso that such combinations they are more attractive to *white* men. I’m not sure what the warriors of contemporary Edo might have said.

    Be that as it may, barriers to entry are another important point. TJ chose Sally Hemings, I think it is plausible to argue, because she was one of his whitest slaves. Sure he could have gotten a full-blooded white… but it would have been much more difficult. He did do precisely that, in fact — he married her.

    But he had unlimited access to the slave-pen, and could choose what he wanted. There, his choice of primary, long-term mistress was telling.

    Maybe he was also banging Oprahs look-alike from time to time. He wouldn’t have been the first. Iceberg Slim talks about the feeling of contemporary (1930s) white men wanting to feel a little dirty by getting with the dark meat $5 at a time.

    Like


  113. Doug,
    I don’t need to convince you or anyone else; the record stands on its own. I just like repeating it, well, becuase, I can.

    GNP,
    Again, we disagree; White Men fuck ugly chicks, too. Black Men are not unique in this regard, just perhaps more open about it. Which goes back to my point about what apears to be many a White fella’s hypersensitivity about what their social circle would say. Hmm.

    Thursday,
    Yes, I see your point, and again, I’m telling you, that the bulk and mass of the White Men in this venue, if they could and word didn’t get out about it, would fuck Toccara. The end. Its a dick thing, not a race thing, and Males are evolutionarily wired to fuck as many differing Women as humanly possible. That, plus the fact that Toccara has all the physical signs of being a strong breeder.

    Oh, and while I’m on the Evo-tip, another word to GNP: in the Great Evolutionary Game, there is but one rule and objective:

    The Man who Fucks the Most, WINS.

    See ya at the top

    The Obsidian

    Like


  114. David Alexander

    Quite frankly, I am better than that, and I have much too much pride, dignity, and self-respect to slide into the depths of trashiness.

    Yes DA, we all think you’re SO much better.

    And that your opinions on such things are SO worth listening to.

    Like


  115. Black women that are considered attractive in the US always have white ancestry. Alicia Keys, Hale Berry, Beyonce, Rihanna, and so on. Pure black girls who are attractive are almost non-existent outside Senegal.

    Like


  116. on March 9, 2009 at 6:39 pm Gunslingergregi

    “Only 29% of African American women are married, campared to 39% of African American males and 53% of all Americans. ”

    Sounds like neither black men nor black woman are being “chosen” for marriage.

    Like


  117. Rihanna’s behaviour has nothing to do with her being black. Chris Brown’s behaviour may have something to do with him being black (high T>>> beats women) in a sense that high T men beat women and there are high T blacks than whites, re.atively.

    Like


  118. on March 9, 2009 at 6:40 pm Gunslingergregi

    But apparently 10 percent more black men are getting something else than black woman. No one it looks like is picking up any slack for the black woman or black woman.

    Obsid any comments on that.

    Like


  119. Gig,
    Strictly speaking, ALL African Americans have some White in them, so to make the case that only those females who are mixed White doesn’t really say much.

    Again: recently Roissy put up a pic of Toccara, who clearly has darkskin, African features, and is plus sized. A clear majority of White guys reported that they would hit it. Now, listen closely…

    In pure, strict Evo terms, “hitting it” is ALL THAT MATTERS. Why? Because its about putting your genes into the future, w/the most fittest female you can find. I am submitting that those White guys chose Toccara, because despite the talk about fatties, and supposedly ulgy full-blooded African chicks, Toccara exemplifies traits of a successful breeder. The reason why all those White guys said they would tap dat azz, was because on a subconscious level, she’s a good candidate to have babies. Period.

    Comments?

    O

    Like


  120. on March 9, 2009 at 6:45 pm Gunslingergregi

    Also yea 10 percent of black men not even marrying black woman at least. Per this it looks dam hard for too many other races to be marrying black woman and not as many as you hypothesize marrying black men.

    Like


  121. Nah, when a white guy plays slappahoe, he gets a t shirt and an appearance on COPS. When a brother does it, he gets to say the white ‘pression made him do it.

    Like


  122. Hemmings was likely the mistress of Jefferson’s cousin, not Jefferson himself. There is enough DNA evidence from Hemmings descendants as well as various contemporary documents (diaries, letters) to make that fairly certain. The entire elite was scandalized at the nature of the liason, and Jefferson sought to restore the family honor by putting both his cousin and Hemmings at Monticello away from public eye.

    The fate of Blacks in Mexico (intermarried to the point where they do not form subgroups anymore) shows that indeed, men and women of various races will marry them.

    They are human beings, and so fall on the various spectrums of attractiveness just like most other folks.

    It is quite true, however, that the stereotypical “Black” woman culturally holds little appeal outside Black circles for men of other races, however Black women who do not act that way and have good body shapes even with little mixed blood are now and have been in the past considered quite attractive to men of all races. From Sally Rand to Khandi Alexander to Angela Basset to Lt. Uhura herself, Nichelle Nichols, this has been the historical case.

    The general lack of attractive Black actresses, singers, and dancers is a huge discontinuity. That White, Asian, and Hispanic men do not find many attractive is a big change from recent history. It seems the late 1980’s marked a big change in how Black women acted and their preference for thugs which turns off men from other races.

    Women past age 35 DO have indeed value, but the tragedy is that men will only value them society-wide when the nuclear family is the norm not the exception. Unrestricted female sexuality is a big a disaster as unrestricted male sexuality.

    Like


  123. on March 9, 2009 at 6:54 pm Cannon's Canon

    Firepower:
    Dont let Chuck get you upset. His panties got bunched up last week when I suggested that Mike Tyson never actually committed the “rape” he was convicted of. While the pieces fit perfectly for Level 3 “Rapo Game,” Chuck can’t help defending the “victim” Desiree Washington, just like he lauds HST for intervening in a female beatdown today, a beta move by definition of this blog.

    http://www.lsiscan.com/desiree_washington_s_interview_on_mike_tyson.htm

    Like


  124. Obsidian–

    You mentioned that the Black, Asian etc, communities in Canada, deal with their Women far differently than do the White men. Now, if I follow your point correctly, that again, supports my thesis.

    My thesis, and Roissy’s, is that leftist generated PC culture, for some thirty or more years now accepted with grumbling by the mainstream, of which hyper American feminism is a part, has had a whole lot of deliterious effects upon the country, but especially upon white men, who as the leaders of our society, were the one’s most targeted by this leftist dogma.

    Roissy endless points out how feminism has betaized most males in our society. Though he doesn’t emphasize the point, all of his examples are whites, or perhaps some Asians. Because they were the ones targeted and who were prepared to listen to the mainstream message. Blacks and particularly black men had lots of cultural shields, and equally importantly, were absolutely allowed them by the leftist propaganda machine, which is indeed Jewish lead (as all or virtually all American leftism really is and has been since about the 1930s.) There was some feminist attempts to shame rap musicians endless talkin about sluts and hoes, and straight up, no subtlety, violence or bling related, male dominance — but there was also a very quick back down when some in the black community told them “don’t be tellin us what to do, whitie”. That wasn’t out of fear of the mightly black man and his balls. It was out of PC dogma and blacks, esp. black men, being a “victim group”.

    Until after WWII whites ruled virtually the entire world. They stopped ruling it largely because of Western, white man generated, leftist ideology, which taught themselves, and the best and brightest from their colonial and neo colonial (e.g. Latin America) empires that imperialism and especially imperialism that was in any way correlated with race was deeply wrong. This became a sort of religion and gathered true momentum through the sixites.

    It’s why there’s no longer segregation in the south, why there’s massive affirmative action, most of it voluntary, starting for blacks and only LATER extended, arguing by (false) analogy to women including mostly white women (who never would have gotten it if blacks hadn’t FIRST). Affirmative action in turn is THE ONLY reason why most blacks are arguably some kind of middle class. Note the most middle class black county in the country is a Maryland bedroom suburb to Washington DC, seat of our federal government and massive amounts of very extensive affirmative action for blacks.

    But this same leftist generated PC consensus in the white mainstream is also why feminism arose or anyway held wide sway including throughout all the high eyeballs media, and yes under Jewish leadership got extremist in the US especially. That feminism and it’s PC unchallenablity in most of its precepts helped generate a whole generation of very betaized white boys. That same race that use to rule the world, only a generation or two ago, and continues to do virtually all the world’s inventing and innovating — and has virtually all the world’s big time military force. (BTW, the ONLY reason terrorism and guerrilla warfare work as well as they do is because unlike the Romans, or the Mongols, or the Persians, or just about all previous massive powers, we don’t simply wipe out civilian villages or towns or cities that resist in that manner. That PC is the ONLY reason. But it’s a huge Achilles heel.)

    It’s ideology my friend. It’s too much leftism. The same leftism, more or less that set you, Obsidian, free.

    However, it is possible to keep the good, and sharply pare back the bad. Possible but not easy.

    Especially while the leftists absolutely control all the entertainment media, with a rare mild exception slipping through now and again. Cause it’s entertainment that has the big long term influence. Persuade by subtext while you’re tell an emotionally compelling story, often a story about something else.

    Like


  125. Obsidian

    White Men in this venue, if they could and word didn’t get out about it, would fuck Toccara.

    I would not. Not the Toccara who looked like the pic of her that Roissy used. Not most of the others I saw. There was one, much thinner one of her that I might. Way down low in hunt.

    But that would depend on her attitude, mannerisms, aggressiveness etc. Which my gut, looking at her, would scotch it even the thinnest version of her I saw in the thread that featured her.

    No I do not like hyper aggressive women. I mean on a white woman scale, which makes most black women, especially big ones, hyper aggressive. Not so much chic noir types, necessarily. Feminists have never convinced me that I should, much less that I do. And neither have you.

    Like


  126. on March 9, 2009 at 7:09 pm Cannon's Canon

    regarding the Watchmen movie:

    Leaving the alpha/beta dynamics alone, the most astounding element of the movie was the Comedian beating the shit out of Silk Spectre I after she punched him in the face. An epic beating at that, followed by the attempted rape, interrupted in the nick of time by the other men in the group.

    The Comedian character, for all his conventional moral perversions, was not remembered as a particularly flawed hero by his peers, just as a man worn too thin by the flaws of ‘society.’ So when Spectre’s looks start to fade, the one man she hooks up with, out of all the group of heroes who came to her rescue, is the Comedian, who wanted to fuck her with his rawest nature, as he expressed previously through a show of violence. She could no longer afford the overture of social pretense, so she calls up the man with the tightest beatdown game and lets him father her child.

    There is enough going on throughout the movie that this subplot does not stand out enough to warrant the attention the fembot army. Still, it’s something that I never thought I’d see in a Hollywood blockbuster, and I immediately thought of Roissy’s posts on Chris Brown. I recommend it and the comic book version, too.

    Like


  127. Chloe::

    Uh, no. Again, I made it very clear that I would fucking kill him, and I meant it. Why is that so hard to understand?

    No, I fully agree you’d kill your current fag boyfriend, who you already know doesn’t have the balls or the strength to ever hurt you, and who you admittedly disrespect and bully because of those qualities.

    I’m sure nothing makes your pussy wetter than having this cowardly, submissive, obsequious boyfriend. Your sex life must be amazing. It must be hard to keep your hands off of him. Every woman dreams of a boyfriend that they can physically dominate and emotionally degrade while he sheepishly grins. So fucking sexy. Your female mate value must be through the roof, that you can hold on to this prime specimen of masculine self-respect. How do you do it? I’d guess you’re a solid 9.

    I fully understand. I’m certain you will never have to suffer a low mate value boyfriend who can physically and psychologically dominate most men and women. Ew, women hate that. Women love weak-willed men without options.

    Like


  128. Doug,
    Excellent points you’ve made. Well done.

    O

    Like


  129. There is enough going on throughout the movie that this subplot does not stand out enough to warrant the attention the fembot army.

    it didn’t escape everyone’s notice. over the weekend i heard a movie reviewer call “watchmen” the most misogynistic movie he had ever seen.
    yes, the reviewer was a flaming beta male, all pompadour and watery eyes.

    re: HST. yes, it is alpha to intervene in a fight between a hell’s angel, his posse, and his girl. it is also stupid. no one said alphas always do the smart thing. now that the truth is out about women’s natures and their willingness, even desire, to submit to men who beat them, more and more white knighting men are going to take a pass when they happen upon a biker beating the crap out of a woman in a lover’s quarrel.
    and they will be right to do so.

    Like


  130. reviewer was a flaming beta male, all pompadour and watery eyes

    Was it Roger Ebert, the faggiest of faggy white guys on this side of the gay/straight divide?

    Like


  131. lurker

    The more I know about women, the less I like them.

    The reason you don’t like them is because you know nothing about them, but can only imagine you know. Women are completely incomprehensible using only the analytical left brain and something tells me you only use half your brain and I can guess which half. I would say….half your brain and none of your heart. Heart? Did she say heart? Whoops!

    Like


  132. on March 9, 2009 at 7:49 pm Cannon's Canon

    “yes, it is alpha to intervene in a fight between a hell’s angel, his posse, and his girl. it is also stupid. no one said alphas always do the smart thing.”

    Roissy, I am pretty sure I remember you writing that, in the context of coming to a woman’s aid, it is either “pointless” or “beta” (can’t remember which you used). Someone told the story of stopping an assault on a subway platform; after the attacker had been scared off, the woman simply ran in the opposite direction rather than staying to offer even a thank you to her knight in shining armor. Saving a woman doesn’t earn her respect or desire, though the pretty lie would tell otherwise.

    I would never bust on you for not trying to stop a stickup, but isn’t that essentially a parallel to this HST story? If anything, such intervention is “right” and “just” but not a delineation of alpha/beta behavior.

    Like


  133. roissy

    re: HST. yes, it is alpha to intervene in a fight between a hell’s angel, his posse, and his girl. it is also stupid. no one said alphas always do the smart thing.

    That’s alpha? I thought it was just plain youthful idiocy, and I’ve done something like that before. I once punched a Russian sailor for slapping a whore I knew, starting an all-out riot between US marines and Russian embassy guards in a popular nightclub in Beijing. The Chinese security hustled me out of there quickly, and seemed to think the entire thing was hilarious.

    My Ukrainian friend Olga was also amused. However, I was subsequently chastised rather severely at the embassy by the Sergeant.

    But all ended alright — the sailor and I made friends eventually. I didn’t really hit him that hard anyway.

    Like


  134. This article might be of interest.

    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1377655

    Considering their status as slaves, there was surprising little rape going on. It was illegal. I think. The high prevalence of European genes in New Orleans was of course due to the Haitian genocide of whites in 1801 (or thereabouts.) The Frenchmen fled Haiti with their black wives to New Orleans.

    BTW, most people don’t know that New Orleans, at the time of the Civil War, had a large population of free blacks, who owned land, businesses, went to school, etc. They couldn’t vote or be policemen or hold govt office. 2nd class status to be sure, but nothing they talk about today. They were the descendents I believe of the French survivors of the Haitian genocide.

    If Jefferson took only one black women for a sex companion, out of his entire slave poplulation, that would put him on a higher ethical plane than 90% or more of living black man. Imagine if Jefferson had been black and his slaves white.

    Tis true that whites have been slaves, since the Prophet forbade making slaves of Muslims. The entire Muslim world ran on Christian slaves. They sent slave ships as far as Ireland. Cervantes was a slave. The Ottoman Empire was entirely dependent on Christian slaves.

    Somehow, the Europeans recovered from the slave trade. It didn’t take centuries, either.

    Like


  135. on March 9, 2009 at 8:41 pm WTFAnswertheMan

    Damn folks, all this chat and not a single person to challenge the merit of the thought experiment posed by the Master Blogger. I’ll take a shot, if only in an attempt to draw back together these inane ribbons of talk about black women and the stupid shot-in-the-dark-the-whole-fucking-time movie.

    The guy posed a simple thought. That women can so easily leave beta men on whim and little worry, they should be able to leave men who slap them around for kicks the same way. That they don’t is proof solid of their attraction to the Alpha Fuck Force. Valid or not valid?

    My opine: Not valid. Yes, the domineering personality of a raging man crashing his fist into the puss of his girlfriend’s face square center is of the same star stuff that draws her to him in the first place. But the world, physical and social, is filled with countless examples of a demand for balance. We all love fire for its warmth an energy. But, none of us wants to go up like a roman torch, either. Our entire civilized world is built around containing reckless energy while at the same time harnessing it to our benefit; fire or otherwise. Women who love strong and angry men are no different.

    You must take Roissey’s thought experiment further and reverse the table. The equivalent of a man punching his girlfriend around while she crawls back for more is an omega/beta male who excuses flake-outs, cheating, money-sucking sexless indulgences, and, other emasculating em-bitchments soley to maintain the girlfriend experience. It’s all the worm has got. Her beauty, her surgically applied attention that keeps him convinced, but, non-interfering – it’s a punch in the face of the same order as man’s fist into a woman.

    So it goes both ways. Women can be enslaved by the power of a man as much as a man can be enslaved by the beauty and treachery of a woman.

    Am I wrong or right? I don’t know. But when the man here makes a fucking excellent post, at least I know not to go off topic. Address or die.

    Like


  136. on March 9, 2009 at 8:52 pm dredd nought

    re: low percentage of black women marry

    I can’t seem to find this interesting treatment of the phenomenon that I recently read online.

    Anyway, one of the many suggested reasons is that while the relationship markets are still clearly divided along racial boundaries (black-black, white-white), the disparity between the sexes among blacks gives black men an advantage to have it their way.

    That is, due to high mortality rates among young black men, and high numbers of black men being in prison, there are relatively few eligible black men to court black women. This results in a market skewed in black men’s favor. They can play the field, they don’t have to marry to get sex.

    They need to be alive, though, and out of prison to enjoy this.

    Like


  137. on March 9, 2009 at 9:07 pm Gunslingergregi

    Government statistics?

    Like


  138. Canon’s Canon:

    “Dont let Chuck get you upset. His panties got bunched up last week when I suggested that Mike Tyson never actually committed the “rape” he was convicted of. While the pieces fit perfectly for Level 3 “Rapo Game,” Chuck can’t help defending the “victim” Desiree Washington, just like he lauds HST for intervening in a female beatdown today, a beta move by definition of this blog.”

    I see you’re still crying over that argument. I didn’t realize you’re still licking your wounds. *My* argument was that Ali is the more alpha between he and Tyson. Most people in that discussion agreed. Tyson couldn’t handle his business in the ring, in the courtroom, or in the business world whereas Ali has escaped *relatively* unscathed. Tyson’s “rape” case is further evidence thrown into the pile of his status as less than alpha to Ali. More evidence of his not-so-alphaness is biting another fighter’s ear for fear of losing a fight. He broke the sportsmanship of the sport you claim he is king of.

    Also, re-read my posts concerning HST. Reading comprehension is definitely not your strong-suit I see. Pointing out that it takes balls to break up a domestic dispute b/w a Hell’s Angel and his woman isn’t necessarily lauding. It’s recognition of the fact that it takes balls to step into that situation. Just because your balls are tucked back behind the recesses of your swollen taint, don’t get mad at me. It also took balls to get on an airplane and fly it into the World Trade Center, but I’m not condoning that.

    Like


  139. I read Hell’s Angels in a criminal justice class. According to the professor, the Hell’s Angels beat HST’s ass because they thought that they would get some money, when the book came out. They received no money, so they beat his ass.

    Like


  140. on March 9, 2009 at 10:12 pm Cannon's Canon

    Chuck:
    “Most people in that discussion agreed.”
    Ali was ESPN’s 2nd greatest athlete of all time. Assigning him merit is not particularly polarizing.

    “Ali has escaped *relatively* unscathed”
    He can barely walk, dude.

    “Tyson’s “rape” case is further evidence thrown into the pile of his status as less than alpha to Ali.”
    No it doesn’t. Also, I backed off measuring champions of any individual sport against their degree of ‘alpha-ness’ because the inherent traits that bring them professional success apply so automatically to bedding women. I initially attempted some wordplay in the local vernacular of this blog to describe two boxing greats and who I think would win in a hypothetical match. Your ensuing pro-Ali rant imparted no boxing knowledge, but, rather, reeked of the typical SWPL apologist party line for minority rights and separatist foreign policy.

    “Pointing out that it takes balls to break up a domestic dispute b/w a Hell’s Angel and his woman isn’t necessarily lauding.”
    But in your context, it is. You replied directly to the assertion that HST cried like a bitch after his beatdown.

    Your comments have illustrated that you would by no means find it acceptable for a man to hit a woman, and that its utility is ‘beneath you.’ As pleasant an advertisement as that may be for your character, you sound more like Chloe’s faggy boyfriend than an alpha, realist, libertarian, or aspiring-PUA. I value your comments as such.

    Like


  141. In O’s defense, isn’t the fact that Sally Hemmings was mixed-raced a demonstration in itself of white men having sex with black women? Sure, maybe you’re able to give Jefferson a pass because he was with a Halle Berry-type, but at some point a white guy was having sex with a very black woman.

    I’d say that on average, white guys aren’t as attracted to black women as they are to other non-whites like Latinas or Asians, but if the chance presented itself…

    Like


  142. > I’d say that on average, white guys aren’t as attracted to black women as they are to other non-whites like Latinas or Asians, but if the chance presented itself…

    Certainly.

    But we need to compare apples to apples. Comparing the sexual accessibility of a slave in 1770s America (who was *property* that was *owned*) to a free woman that you had to court in your small social circle centuries before contraception is meaningless.

    We need to compare women who are the same in all demographic variables except for race.

    Of course the groups themselves could be different (e.g., more lower-class blacks in present-day America vs. whites; or they could live in geographically distinct areas; or they could be very culturally different) which could make the strictly variable-controlled comparison meaningless in a practical sense.

    Not too many Kurds marry Turks, for example.

    Like


  143. Man, I found the “Watchmen” movie a bore. Couldn’t have gotten less involved with the characters, and the story didn’t really start up until after a couple of hours had already passed.

    That out of the way … Where the “white guys finding/not-finding black women sex” question goes, isn’t an awful lot of projecting-from-current-tastes going on? As recently as my own dad’s generation, for instance, it used to be that a LOT of white guys went to Harlem to have fun of all kinds. They didn’t plan to marry the black girls, but they often found they could have a kind of down-and-dirty sex with them that they couldn’t have with the “nice” girls back in their hometowns. And the “white guy who became addicted to black women in order to get off” was a kind of cultural stereotype, apparently for good reasons — there were a number of them around.

    Hey, enjoy some great Afro pop and some mighty cute Afro girls:

    Like


  144. Thought experiment: Let me postulate this theory which relies on the fact that all betas are not created equal (i.e. they’re actually bitter jerks inside most of the time, not lovesick puppies who think love=sex. Being a lovesick puppy is not man’s nature so that is fair to say.) It’s likely that if they ARE in a relationship, they’re already using some sort of manipulation/self-esteem degradation to convince her to stay or she’s financially dependent on them in some way. It’s a thin line between beta and abuse.

    DA: “… slide into the depths of trashiness.” Do you hate yourself for the high porn consumption, then? Or is it not trashy? Not condemning you or anything, just finding the worldview interesting.

    Like


  145. Even without seeing the movie, I will say Graphic novel > Movie. There is no way the movie can cram it all in.

    Like


  146. Okay, so I realize that it’s part of Game to think a girl means the opposite of what she said, but, alas, no. I meant what I said. I’m cool with a little ‘horseplay’ in the bedroom, but, if anybody lays a hand on me in the wrong way, they WILL get a frying pan upside the head.

    I was a beta bitch in my first and only marriage. I was 24, she was 36. Shotgun marriage. I slapped her thigh once, in a fit of exasperation at her, during and argument, and she got all rancid on me about it. Freaked out and big-boss maternal at the same time, every syllable soaked in condenscension.

    That relationship was a battle I could never get the upper hand over. It was hard for me to bail on, as I thought I had a responsibility to the kid to stay.

    The power dynamics were fucked for me. It was her house, I was younger, she had BorderlinePersonalityDisorder issues. She was forever in emotional crisis. Oh, man. There was no way to find balance. That severe a trial by fire led to an emotional breakdown. Which, ultimately was exactly what was needed. Without the fire, the Pheonix would just get old and stale, and not adapt to the new world. Sometimes you got to die.

    Of course, at this stage in my life, I’d simply have never entered into that relationship. And having entered into one, from moment one, it’s clear that no shit will be shit except into the toilet.

    I hear you that man is not to hit you. If you have a good head on you, good on you. Maybe you don’t deserve to be hit.

    Some women do. They need smack, from time to time. Or once, to get things straight.

    Good that you don’t.

    But you are missing something in this conversation. People struggle for power, in relationships, and both men and women can be overbearing. A man needs his power to be the power of a father. Respected, worthy, honored, because it deserves all of these. And fathers can spank, sometimes, in some just situations.

    Like


  147. condescension.

    Like


  148. Bhetti B —

    You’re joking right?

    Bitter anti-Beta hate (Betas basically make the world go around) that might as well be bottled, it’s so stereotypically the women’s opinion about men (and as usually laughably wrong).

    Betas can’t keep a girl around, for one second longer than she herself wants to be. Meanhwhile, Alpha guys like Chris Brown or Bobby Brown or James Brown or Jim Brown or what have you can smack women around and the women stay with them. Even in White Underclass Britain, and now increasingly middle/upper class Britain, this is the usual state of affairs.

    No, women don’t like being knocked around. But they will put up with it to get the testosterone dominance they crave.

    Don’t expect Beta men to care or come to women’s rescue, when they themselves choose their abusers.

    Lets review: Abusers, hard-charging, testosterone driven, Alpha males, to a man. Abused women, they choose their abusers. Betas, yes angry bitter or loners, never hurt a woman, but unlikely to go out and save them either. Or do much when they get knocked around.

    You want men in the game? They need to have skin in the game.

    Like


  149. Do you hate yourself for the high porn consumption, then? Or is it not trashy? Not condemning you or anything, just finding the worldview interesting.

    At times, I do hate the fact that I’ll stay up until 5 or 6AM to masturbate, then wake up at 10:30 for work, but I don’t see porn as trashy. Of course, while I have some films with somewhat aggressive sex, I don’t like the films with the extreme stuff, and I don’t find the slapping or spitting, whether male or female induced to be attractive.

    I use porn as a tool for sexual release, but as I’ve said, there’s no way that I could replicate the moves in porn, especially the aggressive stuff. It’s almost gut wrenching to think about myself acting in such a fashion.

    they’re actually bitter jerks inside most of the time

    I remember once telling a female friend that nice guys are the perverts and weirdos.

    not lovesick puppies who think love=sex

    I must admit that when I had had sex with my mistress, I may have had some type of bizzare hybrid of love and sex, and I just wanted nothing else but to be with her. Given that most betas have limited sex partners, they’re clingy and desperate to have somebody fill their empty little lives.

    Like


  150. Saying she loves him BECAUSE he hits her is going too far. If that were the case, then a guy could get any woman to love him solely by punching her in the face. That’s not true, so your assertion is false.

    Saying you ordered extra fries with your meal /i>because the McD waitress offered them would be like saying that anyone can walk up to you in the street and you would order extra fries from them.

    Context, context, context.

    Within the context, sometimes, hitting is erotic. The context is, she is already into him.

    Like


  151. 40% of DV is initiated by the woman. Why? What is she trying to get the guy to do? Does she think she will win the fight and be the boss?

    I’m guessing it’s probably BPD. Some women like to puppet their men, and fight their constant nagging feelings of inferiority by the pleasure of feeling the thrill of making him insane with rage.

    Like


  152. whiskey: the ‘for one second longer than she herself wants to be’ applies to the physical abusers, too, no?

    Talk to me more about why you think beta + emotional abuse = joke.

    Like


  153. i’m left with no other reason to understand other than it’s the ultimate neg. pure and simple. the true sign that the man simply does not give a FUCK.

    No, Benedict, you’ve got in reverse. A quote from some movie, the man shocked at the womans fear of him hitting her “Why would hit you?! I don’t even love you!”

    Like


  154. Explat — That’s a nice description of BPD.

    Like


  155. “Chloe
    I had a friend in college, a solid 8.5/9, who was getting her ass beat on a regular basis. It was sad, really. She would ‘whup any bitches’ ass’, first thing, but if her man hit her, she came crying to us. I didn’t get it.

    I told my boyfriend I “would fucking kill him” if he laid a hand on me. I think that pretty much took care of it, but, then again, he doesn’t have violent tendencies.

    *shrug*”

    Chloe, this comment was disturbing for many reasons: (1) that a hot girl was using words like “whup any bitches ass”, (2) that you felt the need to profanely threaten your boyfriend, and (3) that any of the people described were actually attending a COLLEGE (supposedly for the smart and ambitious) in the first place.

    Like


  156. Yes, Micheal, and let’s not forget the Spider factor. What a clever web the BPD abuse victim weaves. The man, always in fear of the cops for his crimes.

    Like


  157. And hey, women, I’m not discounting the men with BPD who hit. They are bad news, and make life hell.

    Like


  158. I will never slap a woman, and I’d rather stay single than engage in such a low-class behaviour to maintain attraction to a woman. Quite frankly, I am better than that, and I have much too much pride, dignity, and self-respect to slide into the depths of trashiness.

    I enjoyed reading Heinleins book about a character called Methuselah. He was guy who didn’t from the cause of old age. And Methuselah had opportunies of continual continuing education. And he kept trying new things, learning new things, and it never got stale. He was always surprised, even after 2000 years.

    Try to imagine that you too, might be surprised, at who you too, might become.

    Like


  159. Try to imagine that you too, might be surprised, at who you too, might become.

    No. Quite frankly, I don’t want to become that type of man because those men are nothing but scum and vagabonds. I refuse to descend into the depths of hell in order to secure female attraction.

    I refuse to kneel before Zod.

    Like


  160. briliant use of sarcasm leading up to … Women love weak-willed men without options.

    Well played, sir.

    I don’t think she’ll be able to hear you though. She’ll come back with how abuse is wrong, ignoring the dominance/submissive factor of sexuality entirely.

    Like


  161. Ok, if you don’t want to kneel before Zod, then who else is in your list to kneel before?

    I have a book you might be intersted in reading. It’s not a book, actually, I stole it from the paint store. It’s a color wheel. The amazing about it is all the gradations.

    From Zod to Morally upright.

    Like


  162. then who else is in your list to kneel before?

    The Wellesley Queen.

    The amazing about it is all the gradations.

    If a woman wants to be slapped around during sex, she can go to you. I refuse to indulge in such trashy behaviour because I like to wake up in the morning and not that I’m not low-class wife-beater wearing brutish thug.

    Like


  163. DA, you are intractable aren’t you? (I’m not sure what intractable means, and I probably spelled it wrong. It’s supposed to mean stubborn).

    DA, you are stubborn, aren’t you? You want to equate rough sex with low morals.

    From your parents basement.

    Like


  164. on March 10, 2009 at 1:52 am Cannon's Canon

    please enjoy some more “great Afro pop”

    IMHO cam is head and shoulders above the rest of hip hop these days. let’s see if this starts another tyson-ali tilt debate.

    Like


  165. DA, you are stubborn, aren’t you? You want to equate rough sex with low morals.

    I’m not arguing that all rough sex is trashy, but that slapping your partner around is decided the behaviour of brooding, lower class males. I do not want to have any attributes of such males.

    BTW, as a porn viewer, I don’t mind the aggressive sex, and I tend to fast foward thru the rough sex since it isn’t erotic or alluring.

    From your parents basement.

    The bedroom is on the second floor.🙂

    Like


  166. The bedroom is on the second floor.

    Good! You are of higher status than you have led us to believe.

    And good to see your moral flexibility. And I do agree that a moral stance is a good thing. Especially if it rests on constant re-assessment.

    Like


  167. And humility. The sure sign of a sense of humor.

    Like


  168. Ali was ESPN’s 2nd greatest athlete of all time. Assigning him merit is not particularly polarizing.

    To be fair, those dorks in Bristol put a damn horse on that list…

    Like


  169. “Ali was ESPN’s 2nd greatest athlete of all time. Assigning him merit is not particularly polarizing.”

    To be fair, those dorks in Bristol put a damn horse on that list…

    Are you talking about sports? Because, if you are, I’m going to put my foot into your ballsack, at a speed that you won’t enjoy. In order to make you not talk about sports again.

    Like


  170. Cannon:

    “Ali was ESPN’s 2nd greatest athlete of all time.”

    Then why are you arguing?

    “He can barely walk, dude.”

    Tyson won’t even make it to Ali’s age. The fact that Ali can barely walk gives your argument zero merit.

    “Your ensuing pro-Ali rant imparted no boxing knowledge, but, rather, reeked of the typical SWPL apologist party line for minority rights and separatist foreign policy.”

    You or someone you agreed with brought up Ali’s support of communism but overlooked the fact that Tyson has a tattoo of Mao and Che on his arms. You instigated the off-topic discussion of two boxer’s non-boxing life.

    Furthermore, you just acknowledged that Ali is the second greatest athlete of all-time. He got more pussy on better merit than Tyson ever could have. He is hands-down alpha over Tyson. Ali’s shining legacy compared to Tyson’s further proves that point.

    Cannon, you lack the concept of someone having balls. Someone has balls if they stand up against something they don’t believe in. Ali went to prison rather than fight in what he viewed as the white man’s war. HST got beat up for trying to break up a viscious beating of a woman. It doesn’t matter what the merits of their argument are, they still had balls. As I mentioned before, just because you lack the cajones to stand up for something you believe in, don’t disparage those who do.

    “You replied directly to the assertion that HST cried like a bitch after his beatdown”

    You seem to be the one with a vendetta against the dead Hunter S. Thompson. I’ve seen nothing about his crying after a beat down. It doesn’t change the fact that he jumped into a nest of Hell’s Angels to stick up for some woman. I give two shits about the morality of it; it takes balls to do something like that whoever you are. Again, bone up on those reading comprehension skills in the same way I boned up on your girl.

    “Your comments have illustrated that you would by no means find it acceptable for a man to hit a woman, and that its utility is ‘beneath you.’”

    I look at it this way: I’m not letting a woman put me in that situation in the first place. If she’s pushing me to the point where I lose my temper that badly, it’s time to move on. I tend to view hitting a woman as a desperate attempt to dominate her into staying. If I’m spitting game to a girl at a club I don’t get all angry and physical if she doesn’t respond in the way I prefer. I extrapolate that into my LT relationships. If it’s not working out, I have other options. That may work for you, weak mind and all, but not for me.

    Like


  171. Yes, chicks fuck football players. What about visionaries? Not just Bill Gates, I mean, what about the poets, and artists?

    Do they get fucked?

    if you can toussle a girls hair with your body language and speech … touchdown.

    Like


  172. on March 10, 2009 at 3:52 am Cannon's Canon

    Chuck Schumer:

    Thank you for replying before I finally passed out tonight. Your sophistry rivals the absent Chic Noir. My dreams are that much sweeter with your flaccid counterpoints in play.

    Like


  173. @Explat:

    Are you talking about sports? Because, if you are, I’m going to put my foot into your ballsack, at a speed that you won’t enjoy. In order to make you not talk about sports again.

    I was. Good luck with the hole tracking anonymous commentators down bit.

    Like


  174. Why would I condemn Rihanna? She’ll pay plenty for her mistakes. I just don’t want to hear her bitching and moaning later.

    Like


  175. I was. Good luck with the hole tracking

    Nah, this is all virtual. I can kick your virtual ballsack.

    Like


  176. on March 10, 2009 at 5:44 am Professional Engineer

    I remember one early shit test my wife put me through. She was a competitive rower on varslty eights at a major university. She was a fouth seat which is a power stroke. Anyway she is pretty strong. I played small college football. Not a big guy, like some, but no pus. She pins me in the closet of her bedroom as I am getting a towel one day and won’t let me out until I literally throw her across the room into her bed. We had great sex that day! Many more shit tests since not all passed. When I am forceful with her she likes it. No doubt.

    Like


  177. Obsidian,

    1. Outliers.

    2. Men will screw what they can get.

    any questions?

    Like


  178. I’m not sure why this race conversation has gone on for so long. What are the points being debated?

    Whites have less libido? I concede that. Except for outliers like me, of course.

    Babies? Obsidian, we need people who want to engage in conversation, but I wonder if sometimes your engagement is not complete. People argued against your points, and you hand waved the arguments away.

    But if you know that black women want kids to further your race, then fine.

    But still. Who cares?

    What difference would that make?

    And if one race expanded more than another? Even if one was a bit on the thick side? So fucking what?

    What’s your point?

    Like


  179. I will never slap a woman, and I’d rather stay single than engage in such a low-class behaviour to maintain attraction to a woman. Quite frankly, I am better than that, and I have much too much pride, dignity, and self-respect to slide into the depths of trashiness.

    and yet your only source of sexual arousal is … wait for it … trashy women.

    good one, dave.

    i know you’ve admitted to being a comical exaggeration of some real flesh-and-blood person’s true self, but the mere thought of someone actually thinking all the things you do, simultaneously, makes me seethe.

    why are you still alive? the air quality sucks out there on schlong island; they could use the extra oxygen.

    Like


  180. Acordeaon

    It takes a lot to tear your life and family apart, pack your shit up and throw your lot in with a stranger at a social service agency. I don’t think most folks would do that simply out of a sense of social shame.

    Dude you are so full of shit….

    I really do not see women having difficulty in breaking families, destroying relationships between father and kids, ass raping the father in divorce, filing false sexual abuse complaints about their kids father, calling cops on a husband because he raised his voice…

    Suddenly when the man is abusive, it is difficult to tear up a family?

    go f%&¤ yourself.

    Like


  181. Explat, the Black women being unattractive thing keeps coming up because some guys are too invested in their perceived superiority, and need to repeat the American sheeple party line to console themselves.

    In evolutionary terms, so long as there are a critical mass of subsaharan African people alive and breeding, humanity is not harmed by whatever people choose to believe in order to get through the day. When it will matter is when or if their population shrinks to a point that humanity could lose the pool of its most genetically diverse. This is unlikely because social influences can only go so far in controlling what humans like.

    …and fitness is attractive. The most fit people in the world, male or female, are African. Without social pressure not to mix, wherever African people go, male or female, people shag them. Even with the social pressure, people want to.

    White people in the west, especially the U.S. have been told all their lives that they are the best of everything. If someone challenges that view, they are crazy or evil. So if you point out that even one Black woman is doing well, prepare for a hysterical reaction.

    Sometimes I think the only reason I’m tolerated here is because I’m sufficiently unlucky in some people’s views.

    Like


  182. on March 10, 2009 at 7:33 am Stimulus Package

    Black girls are hotter than hell,period.As a white guy I wish I could score a few myself.Sadly,it seems most unlikely.

    Also,Whiskey and Thursday are easily the most intelligent commenters on this blog.Somebody needs to gather all their material,along with 11Minutesand z and z.g.,and organize it into a coherent whole.Just a thought.

    Like


  183. In other news, how many British men are alphas?

    Answer: 20%

    ONE in five adults thinks it is OK for a man to slap his wife or girlfriend, a shock survey reveals today. They consider it acceptable if she merely wears “sexy clothes” in public. Fourteen per cent reckon blokes are justified in lashing out if a partner is “nagging or moaning”. And 10 per cent believe it is all right for them to hit a lover who flirts with another man.

    Needless to say, these pathetically low numbers have enraged the Feminazis, in particular the hideous and incompetent “Home Secretary” Jacqui Smith. More propaganda and state intervention are clearly required! In fact the police will be there to check out any man before a woman even starts dating him: “A register of abusive partners, to be monitored by police, could be set up. This will allow cops to warn women who start dating thugs with a history of violence.”

    Like


  184. Kthula

    One reason that discussions about race are not something I look forward to is the underlying fact that every group on the planet thinks that on some level they are the best – the chosen people. I cannot depsise for example the Jews for indulging in that conceit when fucking everyone else does it as much and in as many ways as they can get away with.
    I also dislike talking about how attractive certain women are according to their genetics – as opposed to the shape their in. It is like telling someone their kid is ugly. You get all heat and no light.
    And it is tiresome beyond belief to have to deal with black people thinking that white people are as obsessed with race as they are. In a “place” like this, the only thing that is accepted or rejected is what you contribute with your finger tips hitting the keys.

    Like


  185. Warpig, spouting more bullshit:

    “The most fit people in the world, male or female, are African.”

    —Based on…proof? Statistics? Cite?

    Wait, this must be the Bryant Gumbel line of reasoning: because blacks dominate the “important” sports, they are the most fit. Sports where blacks don’t dominate aren’t real sports by definition.

    Also, ignore the millions of Africans dying of AIDS/malnutrition/Malaria/etc.; they don’t count as not being fit.

    “wherever African people go, male or female, people shag them”

    –lol, warpig. No one wants to hump a hottentot venus. If your argument were true, Africa, not Asia, would be the center of sex tourism.

    PWNED.

    “White people in the west, especially the U.S. have been told all their lives that they are the best of everything. ”

    —-lmao. Clearly you haven’t been watching the propaganda on TV, in theaters, and in the pc-dominated culture in general, warpig.

    White people, especially white straight christian males, are constantly told that they are stupid, racist, weak, small-dicked, untough, unintelligent, and oppressive. For the last 40 years, white people have been told they are the “cancer” of the human race.

    Trying to argue the opposite is Newspeak at its finest.

    Like


  186. Back to Obsidian:

    Look, Obsidian, black females are in the same boat as East Asian males: neither are considered attractive except the outliers.

    For black females, it is mostly because of their unfeminie, loud, brash, stupid, violent behavior.

    As an example, there is a black secretary where I work. She’s a 4 and old, but because she acts girlishly and sweetly, and not like some Maury Povich reject, she went up in attractiveness in my eyes to a 5. Had she pulled a blattitude, she’d be a 2.

    Black females cause their own problems in rejecting coquettish behavior. Since good men, black and non-black,a re turned off by it, the only men they get are pump-and-dump players, whcih causes this self-defense trashiness to emerge, which in turn nets them only more players.

    Like


  187. “So if you point out that even one Black woman is doing well, prepare for a hysterical reaction.”

    —lol. Yes, warpig, we’re all freaking out that Oprah is a billionare.

    PWNED.

    Like


  188. lurker:

    Black females cause their own problems in rejecting coquettish behavior. Since good men, black and non-black,a re turned off by it, the only men they get are pump-and-dump players, whcih causes this self-defense trashiness to emerge, which in turn nets them only more players.

    I wonder whether this phenomenon has any effect at all on the players, and their resultant world view/attitude.

    Nah, that’s crazy talk.

    Like


  189. Lurker,
    Take it up w/the SWPL crowd, they’re the ones who are constantly dogging White guys out. Not Black folks.

    Nicole, thanks for the comments, and I’m w/you, the only reason why I like to deal w/racial themes is because I get tired of listening to *some* White guys talking out the side of their neck. Its one thing to have a preference for this or that, something else to make dumbassed blanket disparaging remarks about an entire group of people. Aaaand, its hypocritical to say such things, all the while knowing good and damn well that they would hump a Sista w/the quickness if they could, and know one would find out about it. So many White guys are so caught up w/what others think of what they think, say or do.

    Oh, and one more thing: I don’t think any particular racial or ethnic group is superior; what I think is that each group carries with them certain advantages and disadvantages, and it is up to each group to find out what these are, and maximize one and either downplay, or try to improve, the other.

    Dave Alex has mentioned before, that there is an element in this forum who embraces race realism, but as a cover for their own animus, hatred even, against Black folks, and a bit less so, against Brown ones. Until recently, these elements have had pretty much free reign to spew their crap w/o any real challenge.

    That ends now.

    And Nicole IS right-alot of White boys *have* grown up with a serious Entitlement Mentality, and when they’re directly challenged and/or called on the carpet for it, they don’t know how to react.

    Take Affirmative Action for example. While it is true, as Doug has noted, that the Black middle class as we now know it was due almost wholly to AA, what he and most other White guys here and elsewhere don’t want to face squarely is that right now, and for sometime, thee number one beneficiaries of AA aren’t Black people, but WHITE WOMEN. And White guys don’t seem particularly interested in shutting down AA when they gotta step to their Momma, their Sister, their Daughter, or that chick they’re hoping and praying to boff someday. I prove that their crocodile tear-soaked “concern” is little more than racial animus, fueled by the fact that they feel those slots should be theirs, simply because they’re White and male. Oh, and notice how White guys don’t jump all over Asian folks either-too much merit, I guess.

    So, yea, having a preference for a particular body type is one thing. But the minute you go off the rails, talking out the side of your neck, is when I gotta mention four words:

    Thomas Jefferson

    Strom Thurmond

    And I’ll keep saying it, because it’s true.

    And because, I can.

    Comment or reply, holla.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  190. Now I gotta deal w/the BS Lurker’s talkin’. Apparently he missed Michael Blowhard’s comments upthread a piece. He should go and read that, and meditate deeply upon it.

    Moreover, I know plenty Black Women, and I don’t mean barely marginal looking Black Women, I mean darker skinned, kinky haired, big caboose type Black Women, who are CONSTANTLY getting hit on at work, by who? Yup, you guessed it, WHITE GUYS. Oh, in case you’re thinking it, let me disabuse you-these are all highly educated and very gainfully employed Sistas. They don’t live in the hood, they live out in the burbs.

    The deal is, that these Sistas tell me, that the majority of the White guys who hit on them, simply ain’t “Man enough”. Meaning, they don’t have as much T as these Sistas have. Which explains why none of these Sistas let any of those White boys get some.

    See, I like a sassy, saucy Sista. “Cocquettes” reminds me of little girls, and we all know how much little girls turns on so many of you White boys, now don’t we? I’ve never been into that stuff, but hey, to each his own. I like dealing with a full grown Woman, whom I can demonstrate my loving dominance over. So far, so good.

    And, Lurker, again: there are millions of lightskinned Black folks in this country. How’d they get that way, especially seeing as how Black Men didn’t have anywhere near the level of sexual access to White Women, that White Men had to Black Women? Hmm? Wanna takea wild guess?😉

    Thomas Jefferson

    Strom Thurmond

    And that’s just for starters…

    Holla

    O

    Like


  191. @kthula,

    The most fit people in the world, male or female, are African.

    Please think about this. What does “fit” mean? flexibility? aerobic capacity? anaerobic capacity? strength? endurance?
    resistance to prostate cancer? resistance to malaria? resistance to infectious disease? resistance to diabetes?

    Your premise is vague. At least define your terms.

    Like


  192. Well, there’s lurker providing a case in point…spouting meaningless statistics and self pity about being oh so persecuted in the media while (mediocre) Brad Pitt gets more play than (much, much hotter than most men alive, with a brainy bonus) Djimon Hounsou.

    These statistics mean fuck all to his appeal, or mine, or anyone else in the diaspora who isn’t poor, doesn’t have AIDS, and also doesn’t have a persecution or inferiority complex.

    I’m just personally tired of people thought policing others about what they should like, and what they should think of themselves based on some not just arbitrary, but anti nature standard.

    It’s pathetic when Black people do it to pressure other Black people to “stay in the tribe”, and even more pathetic when White people do it. You’re all worried about the wrong thing, and don’t even see how you’re suffering from it.

    If me being me makes me better than you, the thing to do about it is improve yourself…not freak out about how I can’t be as good as I am because of some irrelevent statistics. Butch up.

    Like


  193. Obsidian wrote:
    “G-Man
    You need to study American history more. While it is true what you say about SH, the point remains that per Men like Jefferson who made the rules, she still was BLACK. And, a slave. And, he never freed her OR the kids they made together either. Same deal wrt Washington. And so on. And so forth.”

    Both her slave status and how she was considered are irrelevant to the line of discussion and the arguments you were making in response to other posters’ claims that white men find black women unappealing. Hemmings was in fact predominantly European in appearance. Thus undermining Jefferson as an example of a white man who craved women of predominant sub-Saharan African appearance, which was what they other two posters were REALLY getting at when they made the claim that white men are disinterested in black women or something to that effect. Therefore, Jefferson, assuming he did knock up Hemmings, is a bad example.
    Thurmond is a better example, though, and his behavior (e.g. white southern male having “secret” black families) was not as uncommon as people wish to believe. Moreover it wasn’t inconsistent to be, as in Thurmond’s case, a segregationist or white supremacist and engage in such behavior. For example, African-American writer George Schuyler’s white Texan wife was disowned by her family for her marriage to Schuyler, yet both her father and at least one brother had black mistresses and children with these women whom they supported.

    Even Theodore Bilbo of Mississippi, ardent white supremacist and segregationist, was rumored to have a black mistress and children with her. In Nicholas Leman’s “The Promised Land” he interviews an older resident of Chicago public housing who claims he actually lived in the same building as Bilbo’s mistress and her children by him.

    Finally, I would add that you should read more about how concepts of blackness in the U.S. changed over time. During Jefferson’s time, different states had different legal rules governing what percentage of “African blood” made someone a Negro. It’s quite conceivable that she was not considered black in any sense (or white for that matter). Too many people work backwards from the present and assume that concepts like the “One Drop Rule” existed from the inception of the U.S.

    Some suggestions for further reading:
    New People: Miscegenation and Mulattoes in the United States (http://www.amazon.com/New-People-Miscegenation-MulattoesUnited/dp/0807120359/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236694206&sr=1-8)

    And on the formation of the U.S.’s One Drop Rule: The One-Drop Rule (http://backintyme.com/essays/?p=46)

    Legal History of the Color Line: The Rise And Triumph of the One-drop Rule (http://www.amazon.com/Legal-History-Color-Line-One-drop/dp/0939479230/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236694823&sr=8-1)

    Obsidian wrote:
    “My point again, is to note that White Men, when given the chance and there’s little threat of social censure or rebuke on the part of other whites, would fuck the you know what outta a Sistah who looks like Toccara just as quickly they would a White gal who looks like Keira Knightly. Perhaps even moreso. Its just that White Men seem to be much more sensitive about what the Jones’ would think-hence the downlow.”

    That may be true, at least in the U.S. where black/white mating or open sexual relations are frowned upon by many white and blacks, but it is probably safer to say that most white men in the U.S. are not attracted to black women and when they are, they prefer a more “mulatto” or “mixed “ look. Additionally, I’d extend that concern about what others think to the black community as well. I have many friends who keep their dalliances with white and even non-white women a secret for fear of what the “community” might think.

    BTW, personally I find Tocara attractive, though she could use a little (very little) weight loss. Knightly looks like a pre-pubescent boy to me, so she is unappealing as far as I’m concerned. I wouldn’t put the two in the same league, but that’s just me.

    Like


  194. And yet another lesson I must impart to Lurker:

    Please read up on the Hottentot Venus. She was sexually objectified in the worst of ways, by WHITE MEN. Her big booty gave them White boys masive boners-oh, and let me speak quickly to what I *think* Nicole meant when she said that people of African descent being “more fit”-

    What I think she meant by that is that on a deeper, subconscious level, people of African descent are seen as having the goods to reproduce to a higher degree than other groups. Outward signs of this, for example, would be a big booty for a female (wider hips facilitate natural birthing much more than narrower hips, at least this is what a number of OB/GYNs and Midwives have told me), for males, more defined musculature, deeper voices and so on. Like I said before, a clear majorty of White guys right here in this forum said they’d tap Toccara if they could. She has strong physical features denoting high fertility and birthing potential. Hence, she’s “fit” per what I think Nicole means.

    Anyway, gettng back to the Hottentot Venus, Lurker, you are familiar with the “bustle”, yes? Look it up. Take a wild guess where that came from.

    Oh and that crap you was talking about sex tourism? Not true. Many spots in Africa have been such destinations for a long, long time now, and in more recent times, older White Women can be found heading off to Africa to score some of the Mahogany Rod. Thailand in particular specializes serving up little girls and especially little boys…and we all know how much some White guys go in for that kind of thing, now don’t we, Lurker? Hmm?

    Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  195. “oh so persecuted”

    –I know. After all those blacks complained about black girls wanting white dolls, the collective societal freak out was incredible on how the media was controlling the preferences of the black kids, but 40 years of media propaganda means nothing to whtie men. We’re just too thick to get the implications of the *Remember the Titans*, whose message is: white people need to be downgraded and degraded, while black people should be given their positions and held up as paragons of virtue.

    “These statistics mean fuck all to his appeal, or mine, or anyone else in the diaspora who isn’t poor, doesn’t have AIDS, and also doesn’t have a persecution or inferiority complex.”

    —Jigga wha? I think the warpig is trying to get around her ridiculous assertion that Africans are somehow more fit or sexually attractive. But I don’t speak stupid.

    Not how this woman-beast has given up trying to justify her moronic statement and is now just gibbering.

    “You’re all worried about the wrong thing, and don’t even see how you’re suffering from it.”

    —What are we suffering from, pray tell? Not wanting to screw an ugly, failed bitch like you?

    “irrelevent statistics. ”

    –lol. WOMAN ALERT. She makes a statement: “Africans are more fit than everyone.” I ask her what evidence she has of this, and reference statistics that show Africans being in worse shape physically due to malnutrition, AIDS, etc.

    Her response? Statistics are meaningless. lol. Just like a woman, can’t be bothered with facts.

    Fatass, if anyone disproves your ridiculous notion that africans are somehow fit, its you.

    Like


  196. (wider hips facilitate natural birthing much more than narrower hips, at least this is what a number of OB/GYNs and Midwives have told me)

    I’m not really interested in continuing this discussion into day 2, but I had to point this one out.

    How many OB/GYNs and midwives do you actually know?

    Like


  197. Obsidian:

    ROFL, man. Seems like I hit a sensitive spot for you.

    “The deal is, that these Sistas tell me, that the majority of the White guys who hit on them, simply ain’t “Man enough”.”

    –lmao. Sure, you might get some occasional whigger on a black girl to prove he’s black enough.

    But Please, if you’re believing a bunch of lonely sistas claiming they get hit on by white men all the time, lol, you’re seriously in trouble.

    If black women were as desireable to non-blacks as non-black women, porn would be at least 10% non-black males on black females, and playboy/hustler wouldn’t be overrun with non-blacks.

    Fact is, very little porn for non-blacks has black women in it. A simple search of any porn site will find this. They simply aren’t part of the fantasy, precisely because of the butch attitude.

    Try to defend the lonely bitchy sistas all you want man, and buy into their fantasies; ain’t no one but you and the few bruthas who want them.

    “Please read up on the Hottentot Venus. She was sexually objectified in the worst of ways, by WHITE MEN. Her big booty gave them White boys masive boners”

    —lol. No, she was exhibited as a freak show, a bearded lady or midget for people to gawk at. Sure, I’m sure the bearded lady had groupies, too.

    “What I think she meant by that is that on a deeper, subconscious level, people of African descent are seen as having the goods to reproduce to a higher degree than other groups.”

    —lol. Don’t try to defend the warpig. She said fit, she meant fit.

    And who would think this? A group of people filled with aids, violence, drug use, malaria, and malnutrition?

    “Like I said before, a clear majorty of White guys right here in this forum said they’d tap Toccara if they could.”

    —I believe they said “I’d let her blow me” which is what they said about the fat white chick.

    “She has strong physical features denoting high fertility and birthing potential.”

    —lol.. No, she has fat. Fat is not fit. Fat is fat. Warpig is fat, not fit, no matter what she talks about.

    “Anyway, gettng back to the Hottentot Venus, Lurker, you are familiar with the “bustle”, yes? Look it up. Take a wild guess where that came from. ”

    –lmao. Yes, a ladies fashion came from a freak show. And the creation of the flapper look destroys this.

    “Oh and that crap you was talking about sex tourism? Not true.”

    —Clearly someone has never been to the Phillipines or Thailand.

    “Many spots in Africa have been such destinations for a long, long time now, and in more recent times, older White Women can be found heading off to Africa to score some of the Mahogany Rod.”

    —1. Name 1.

    2. Yes, a few old rich white sluts run off to Africa when no one around will do them to find some young desperate poor malnurished buck and its a pattern. Funny, I don’t think 5 white women are going to break the statistic of the thousands of straight men skidding off to Manilla for a double-decker yellow sandwhich with two schoolgirls.

    “Thailand in particular specializes serving up little girls and especially little boys…”

    —lol. Just proved my point. After all, if black men really were the most sexually desireable along with black women, the gays be running off to Africa as well. But they aren’t. Men are going to East Asia, not Africa.

    PWNED.

    Like


  198. wider hips facilitate natural birthing much more than narrower hips, at least this is what a number of OB/GYNs and Midwives have told me

    Childbirthing is more dependent on internal dimensions, not necesarily width of the hips. The two things don’t necessarily correlate.

    BTW, don’t black women actually have slightly narrower hips than white women? this, plus higher ration of fast-twitch muscles, supposedly accounts for their performance in sprintig events.

    On another note, what’s with this endless talk of black women and their attractiveness or lack thereof? Is it really necessary to lay it on so thick? The black women who comment here are generally nice (Chick Noir) or accept the realities of Game (Kthula). So what’s the point in being nasty? Much of it comes across as unprovoked.

    The black guy vs. white guy arguments that we get into here (low IQ, low testosterone, blah blah) are at least more warranted, since we often, as guys, dish it out as well as take it. I do so on occasion myself, esp. yesterday evening, being in “just the right” kind of mood for this topic.

    But while HBD discussions about black women’s attractiveness are legitimate, the manner is which they are posted here is gratuitously nasty and unprovoked.

    Like


  199. my comment above is stuck in moderation again. Trigger-words I know if are “m e g a” spelled without the spaces. Don’t know what else.

    Like


  200. Black women have a higher incidence of inadequately wide birth canals.

    Like


  201. Being black correlates to having a more narrow birth canal and a higher incidence of birthing problems regardless of the fat stored on the ass-cheeks.

    Like


  202. “Thailand in particular specializes serving up little girls and especially little boys…and we all know how much some White guys go in for that kind of thing, now don’t we, Lurker? Hmm?”

    So do the Brothers in Afreaka, lots of them. Cannibalism too and using albino body parts for magic. Savages living in glass housed shouldn’t throw stones… And what’s with the “hmm” thing. Looks gay.

    Like


  203. Seeking Alpha,
    I don’t *know* such people personally; however, I have spoken to a number, 4 or 5 each, about these matters. That was the response I was given. I respect your right to disagree.

    Lurker,
    Again, you’re barking up the wrong tree. The Black Doll/White Doll study is wholly different from what you’re talking about. Like I said, go and take it up w/the SWPL crowd, they are the enemies of Straight, White & Christian Males. Stop using scapegoats and Man Up.

    O

    Like


  204. Obsidian

    Re: Blacks birthing babies. Google it. This debate will end 5 minutes later.

    Like


  205. Hmm. No, I’m not gay.

    Name one such country, Lurker? Let’s take Kenya, for starters. What I’m talking about, older White Woman going to parts of Africa for sexual purposes, are easily found on the Internet. Look it up.

    And no, the big White gal was the one beng tapped for a BJ by a majority of White guys here. When it came to Toccara, they’d hit it. Two different things.

    The Hottentot Venus was sexually objectified, by White Men. This is a basic fact. Look it up.

    The Bustle was invented because White Women don’t hav back like Sistas do, and wanted to correct that. Same deal w/tanning, collagen in the lips, and so forth.

    Interesting perspective on Black Women and birth canals. Hmm.

    PA-
    The viciousness with which Lurker and his ilk attempts to put out there wrt Black Women is why I respond in the way I do. Lurker would be hardpressed to actually list 10 Black Women that he actualy knows, yet has no problem saying some of the most outrageous stuff about them. Oh, and in case he’s reading, there is a nice niche market of Porn that features Black Women fucking White Men. I’ve personally seen some of the dvds.

    And again, I actually know Black Women who are constantly getting hit on by White guys. They’re smatt, highly educated and gainfully employed in Corporate America, have been for years, and they live in the boonies. They’re just not feeling said White boys for the aforementioned reasons.

    Thailand, among other spots in the world, are known pedophile paradises. And in nearly every instance, the perps are middle aged WHITE GUYS. Brothas by and large, don’t get down like that.

    Don’t you have a date with the Girl Scout selling cookies?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  206. Obsidian writes: “I don’t think any particular racial or ethnic group is superior; what I think is that each group carries with them certain advantages and disadvantages, and it is up to each group to find out what these are, and maximize one and either downplay, or try to improve, the other.” Words of wisdom.

    Lurker — You’re a smart guy, but what’s your problem, man? I mean, I can enjoy a rant, and I’m glad that the web gives all of us a chance to sound off about how fed up we are with PC thought control and such. But you’re being just plain rude, while Ob and Kthulah are showing a lot of class. Has it occurred to you that your behavior doesn’t make a very convincing demonstration of your general “white people are superior” stance? Ob and Kthulah are behaving much more attractively than you are. Hence … black people are better, right? Speaking as a white person, I really wish you’d quit behaving like such an asshole, partly because you aren’t doing our group’s rep any favors.

    You’re also being inaccurate. There’s been a long, long tradition in this country of white guys chasing black tail. As Ob repeatedly points out, where did that 25% white blood in most American blacks come from? That represents MILLIONS of instances of whiteguys planting the seed in black soil. Given that guys generally can’t perform unless they’re into it, I think it’s fair to assume that those MILLIONS of instances of whiteguyz spurting hot loads into black pussy represent a heck of a lot of whiteguyz finding black pussy pretty darned sexy.

    Also, one of the big neuroses in American history has been the conflict between respectability and sex. There obviously doesn’t need to be such a conflict in the abstract, but it’s certainly played a role in the American psyche. And one consequence has been that while many white guys chase respectability (ie., a white wife, often from a class above where the whiteguy started) they find themselves turned on and fulfilled sexually by something entirely different, namely black gals. (Or Italians, or Jews, or whetever — groups that are perceived as earthier and less pure than the supposedly classy white girls.) The whiteguy who supports and respects his cherished whitewife while having to go downtown to seedier neighborhoods in order to feel free sexually is a pretty common character in American culture.

    Besides, black people have often represented “raw sex” in the American mind. I mean, this is so basic you’d think it doesn’t need mentioning. Think about jazz, black dance forms, blues, Lindy hopping, r&b, rock, Jimi Hendrix, Chuck Berry, Bo Diddly, disco — whatever you personally think of them, all of these phenomena really blew white people’s minds and bodies open with how damn sexy they were perceived to be and experienced as being. Black people have long been thought (or felt) by many white people to have a more direct line to “sexy” than white people do. (Hey, if I were black, “sexy” is one stereotype I’d be happy to embrace.) Even many white people who didn’t like blacks — who found them animalistic or whatever — still associated that “animal” thing with sex. In other words, even many of those who looked down on black people were offering a kind of tribute to the supposedly high “sex” aspect of blacks.

    And what do you make of blacks being adored in France for their supposed raw and magnificent sexiness? “Ah, she eez sleek and primitive, like a black panther … ” Or by Leni Riefenstahl, who, once she was done making movies that turned Aryans into sexy icons for Hitler, then turned to making photographs of the African Nuba tribe, who she portrayed as God-like embodiments of mythical sexual attractiveness and power?

    Look, the coarseness of gangsta culture puts me off too. But gangsta culture doesn’t encompass all of black culture by a long shot. For one thing, it’s a pretty recent development. And there’s really no disputing the fact that black people, black style, and black art have represented “sexy” (as well as other things) to many Americans for a long time.

    As far as whiteboyz not being able to stand up to the lustiness of blackgalz … Well, would you accept testimony from Mick Jagger? Mick was well-known for his love of black sexiness. And here’s a line from his lyrics for “Some Girls”: “Black girls just wanna get fucked all night / I don’t have that much jam.” Sounds to me like a tribute to the sexual power of black ladies, as well as a joke at the expense of his sorry white ass. If he can do it (and enjoy it), why can’t the rest of us?

    As for coquettishness: You may like it, but why assume that everyone does, let alone that it’s the one measure by which attractive female behavior should be measured?

    But seriously, dude: Behave a little more classily, would you please? If only because you’re letting the whiteguy team down with your ugly antics.

    Like


  207. Seeking Alpha,
    I don’t *know* such people personally; however, I have spoken to a number, 4 or 5 each, about these matters. That was the response I was given. I respect your right to disagree.

    That’s even more insane. If you don’t know these people personally, what happened? You grabbed a yellow pages and called up four or five of each and asked ‘I’m having an argument on some blog. Can you give me your professional opinion?’

    Lies.

    Like


  208. Tupac Chopra

    “That’s something cowards say”
    No, coward’s use the word “something” because they are sexually frustrated at their emo avatar, baby soft boyskin, and cannot verbalize concepts beyond generalizations like “something” you know, like. C’mon, girly cheeks, give us a hug so I can frot on you….

    Canon’s Canon: rapo game – I remember that term. massive kudos to you. Check out a long out of print book called “Put Offs & Come Ons” by a Nixonian Era psychologist.

    Peace

    Like


  209. Michael:

    black people have often represented “raw sex” in the American mind.

    The repressed (I don’t mean that pejoritively) European and American cultures may have looked to blacks for liberation. This, more than the actual looks of black women, may have driven white men to seek out black women. Black women were sexually free. They had “soul,” in contrast to the prudery of these white men’s wives. In our current sluttified culture, the association of black women with free sexuality no longer has the power it once did. So, we are left with how black women actually look.

    Leni Riefenstahl, who, once she was done making movies that turned Aryans into sexy icons for Hitler, then turned to making photographs of the African Nuba tribe, who she portrayed as God-like embodiments of mythical sexual attractiveness and power?

    She deified black men, Michael, not black women.

    Like


  210. Jason Malloy here and Steve Sailer here have some interesting things to say on female attractiveness by race.

    Like


  211. Thursday – So where sex goes we-in-the-present are able to deal with objective facts alone, where people in the past saw all things sexual through distorting lenses? I doubt it. Just a hunch, but I’m guessing that our sexual tastes and pleasures are just as dependent on the symbols, associations, and fantasies (as well as the facts) that we bring to the experience as the sexual tastes and pleasures of people everywhere always seem to have been. Riefenstahl was a lusty hetero white girl who looked in awe at what she felt was the sexiness of some African men. There have always been plenty of white guys who have looked in awe at the sexiness of some African women. Large numbers of Frenchmen made a big thing out of Josephine Baker and her ilk. And the “sleek and mysterious shot of a glossy panther-like super-African woman” has been a staple of hip and avant-garde photography for decades.

    Like


  212. Jason Malloy here and Steve Sailer here have some interesting things to say on female attractiveness by race.

    Like


  213. “there is a nice niche market of Porn that features Black Women fucking White Men. I’ve personally seen some of the dvds.”

    Niche = small. You knew that right?

    Like


  214. on March 10, 2009 at 11:40 am ironrailsironweights

    Turns out that it’s not just women who are forgiving of abusive partners.

    Peter

    Like


  215. “And the “sleek and mysterious shot of a glossy panther-like super-African woman” has been a staple of hip and avant-garde photography for decades.”

    Photos put in magazines by gay men in the fashion industry.

    Like


  216. Michael:

    Some more thoughts.

    Riefenstahl’s tastes were not unusual. Black men are almost by consensus the sexiest men on the planet. Think Tyson Beckford or Terrell Owens. Even I am in awe. Fortunately for us non-black guys, white (and Asian) women also tend to find black men unreliable, a bit _too_ aggressive, and generally not good long term prospects.

    The problem with black women’s attractiveness is mainly how masculine they look. Because of female choice, sexual selection strongly favours those traits that favour male attractiveness, even at the expense of female attractiveness. Many black women would make extremely handsome men. I happen to have grown up around a lot of Caribbean immigrants. It always astounded me how some of these jaw droppingly handsome guys could have such mediocre looking sisters.

    Furthermore, it is remarkable how mixed black/white women seem to have absolutely no problem becoming sex symbols. Halle Berry, Beyonce, Rihanna, Alicia Keys, Emanuela De Paula, Thandie Newton, Jennifer Beals, Sade. The only counter example I can think of is Naomi Campbell.

    Like


  217. —Mick was well-known for his love of black sexiness. —

    He was also sleeping with David Bowie.

    —Even many white people who didn’t like blacks — who found them animalistic or whatever — still associated that “animal” thing with sex.—

    Please don’t leave out crime and other behavior.

    Like


  218. Spabb — You’re aware that porn=”what one enjoys fantasizing about and maybe jerking off to,” and that “the people one actually enjoys fucking” can be something completely different, right?

    Lomtick — Check out European photography (not fashion) magazines. The suave hetero German or French photographer who travels to Africa to make sexy photographs of African chicks, or who poses very black girls in his studio, is a staple. And let me introduce you to Peter Beard, wealthy photographer, lover of black female beauty, and (like Mick Jagger) someone who’s fucked a lot more women than you and I ever shall. Hey, a cute shot of his:

    Dudes: Even if it’s true that finding black girls sexy is a minority taste among whiteguyz, it’s a substantial and influential minority that has 1) been around forever, and 2) is present in many different countries. That’s nothing to sneeze at, as well as something to be respected.

    Like


  219. Mike B,
    Thanks, man. And, to follow up on your point wrt Gangsta Rap:

    We have to keep in mind, that the number one purchasers of Gangsta Rap are teenage and young adult aged WHITE SUBURBAN MALES. And that fact flows very nicely with what Mike B has noted-that Black folks form the backbone of what is hip, chic and sexy in American pop cultural life.

    Where did The Doors get their sound from? According to Jim Morrison himself, they got theirs from BLACK BLUES SINGERS. Same deal w/Jagger & The Rolling Stones, you name it. In fact, one of Morrison’s big hits was “Backdoor Man”, which was a cover of, if memory serves, a Muddy Waters song. There are many other examples. As Mike B himself has noted, Jimi Hendrix and Bo Diddly, made it possible for White bands, like The Doors, The Who, The Stones and others, to exist in the first place.

    Going back to the point about Black Women, as have been previously noted, they tend to have higher T-levels than do White and definitely Asian Women. Most White guys are turned off by the sassyness of Black women; I revel in it, because I can bring her under subjection. I’ve done it. Many, many times. Most White guys (there ARE notable exceptions), can’t. Not won’t. Can’t.

    Going to the sexual issue proper, again, Sistas having higher T-levels means you got to BRING IT in the bedroom. That means, no wham bam pump & dump stuff. It means you waxing on and waxing off on dat azz all night and on well into the next morning. This is why I tend to have my Women over for 3 & 4 days stretches, where I can thoroughly wear their bottoms out. And guess what?-they LOVE THAT SHIT. Can anyone deny that Black Women, on average, don’t look like they can screw? I certainly don’t, and I make sure she’s calling out for Jesus as if she were in the front pew on Sunday Morning.
    Most White guys can’t handle a Woman standing taller than them, its just another day at the office for me. In fact, they’ve made for some of thee best lays I’ve ever had.

    So, again-I have no problem at all w/anyone’s personal preference; that’s what makes America great.

    But when one starts to attempt to making *moral value judgments* on a group of people, based on their perferences, and does so in the most vitriolic of ways, then that’s where I gots to take some heads. Rhetorically, of course.

    Again, Mike, thanks.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  220. I am going to stay away from chattering about black women as I think it has little to do with Roissy’s post. What I do want to know is how Roissy’s theories are affected by the fact that women stay with abusers who abuse their kids. Sometimes women stay with men who are sexually abusing their kids to the point of defending them and disowning the child. To follow roissy’s maxim …. they love the abusers and love them more because they engage in the abuse. I get the first part but it breaks down for me when you get to the second part. Does the wife defend her husband accused of child abuse (sexual or physical) because she loves him more because he engaged in the activity?

    This follows for any negative behavior that wrecks a marriage. The heroin or cocaine abuser who causes financial and emotional ruin for a spouse is often excused and defended. The more prevalent alcoholic is often defended and enabled by the loving spouse. The short answer for why anyone stays in these troubled relationships is that they love their spouse. The problem I have is in understanding is how the leap to “loving them more” because they engage in the negative behavior works. Staying in such relationships is proof of something. Roissy has nailed the behavior, I am just not sure he has adequately explained it.

    PS – the forgoing comments prove to me that we (the collective “we”) have a lot more hang ups about race than I ever realized.

    Like


  221. Obsidian:
    Don’t you have a date with the Girl Scout selling cookies?

    Are you asking me? I was saying earlier that it’s one thing if these arguments become guy vs guy across races, but I was finding the way black women are described here by some as unprovoked and assholish.

    Like


  222. PS – the forgoing comments prove to me that we (the collective “we”) have a lot more hang ups about race than I ever realized.

    Hey, “we” are just following AG Holder’s advice! And he’s black, dontcha know!

    Like


  223. PA,
    No, I wasn’t talking to you at all, I was posing my tongue in cheek question to Lurker. I’ve always found your posts, on whatever topic, to be quite informative.

    O

    Like


  224. Oh, and while I’m on the Evo-tip, another word to GNP: in the Great Evolutionary Game, there is but one rule and objective:

    The Man who Fucks the Most, WINS.

    In the wet tropics where diseases and natural disasters have tendency to wipe out communities fairly frequently, sure. But not anywhere else (not without social security nets created by white people). In temperate and polar climates and the dry tropics, ensuring adequate food and shelter was a much more pressing issue than in the wet tropics. That is why Sub-Saharan Africans and their descendents represent the most r-selected side of the human spectrum while other populations represent the most K-selected side.

    Like


  225. Nick Cannon’s Cannon in your Mouth:

    “Chuck Schumer:

    Thank you for replying before I finally passed out tonight. Your sophistry rivals the absent Chic Noir. My dreams are that much sweeter with your flaccid counterpoints in play.”

    Aw, you waited up for me?

    It’s nice of your to throw big words into your “arguments”, but it would be nice if there were an actual coherent thought.

    Like


  226. O:

    “both Men were, to say the least, ambivalent, if not virulently, in the case of Thurmond, against Black folks. Yet both Men saw fit enough not only to fuck Black Women, but to sire kids with them.”

    i don’t understand why you can’t see the generality that white men aren’t all that attracted to more black-looking black women. this is all general and relative.

    white men being attracted to *some* black women is natural enough. them being attracted to the Hottentot Venus is natural as well, but you’re doing nothing to address the fact that *most* white men aren’t really that attracted to them. as for myself, i’m attracted to some black women, but i realize that most white men aren’t. they definitely aren’t as attracted to black women as much as they are to latino and asian women.

    also, what does it say that black men seem to be more attracted to women of different races compared to white, asian, and hispanic men?

    comments?

    Like


  227. and yet your only source of sexual arousal is … wait for it … trashy women

    And Johnny Five points out the fun problem. Find a hot looking sexually attractive female who isn’t bordering on the trashy side or lower-IQ side of society.

    why are you still alive?

    I determined that funerals aren’t cheap, and I’d prefer to avoid having my friends and family cry. Plus, after watching my aunt pass away from cancer, it seemed silly to kill myself over little shit.

    Sports where blacks don’t dominate aren’t real sports by definition.

    In the United States, with the exception of hockey which is virtually all-white except for a handful of black players from Canada, and all the important sports generally have a high degree of black domination even including baseball where the Hispanic players are just black guys who speak Spanish and have significant levels of white ancestry.

    Many black women would make extremely handsome men. I happen to have grown up around a lot of Caribbean immigrants.

    I’m a Caribbean who grew up in a working class/high prole middle class black area, and I’ve noted similar things as well, but I wouldn’t make the leap of faith that all black women look masculine. One girl at work from my native Haiti has a great body and she dresses very well (high heels, nails), and she’s smart (based on her near completion of college) but she looks like a guy. In contrast, another girl from the Caribbean is very cute looking and feminine with a great body as well, but sadly she lacks the nails and heels. Admittedly, most of the black girls that I’ve been interested in have softer, feminine looks that one could call “white” looks, but I’ve seen the same features in light skinned and dark skinned girls.

    I remember somebody on a blog once theorized that the daughters of alpha males tend to have more masculine looks. Is it possible that the high T in black males ends up being inherited by their daughters?

    Like


  228. on March 10, 2009 at 1:55 pm Gunslingergregi

    “Obsidian,
    Oh, and in case he’s reading, there is a nice niche market of Porn that features Black Women fucking White Men. I’ve personally seen some of the dvds. ”

    So now we see where you are coming from. You hate hate hate white people. Good for you to finally come out with your innermost feeling. I have been waiting for it to finally come out. That is your big dream isn’t it to one day rape a white man. Go and do it legally you could probably game a white fag and get some of your hate out of your system but probably not all.

    Like


  229. …and fitness is attractive. The most fit people in the world, male or female, are African.

    You parody yourself. I simply don’t care about your self esteem needs.

    Is that wrong?

    I don’t care about your self esteem needs.

    The most fit people in the world are in the Olympics, and are broadly and diversely represented.

    Feel good about yourself in the mirror – I’m not going to tell you that your ass is not fat.

    Like


  230. O:

    “Oh, and in case he’s reading, there is a nice niche market of Porn that features Black Women fucking White Men. I’ve personally seen some of the dvds. ”

    There is also lots of pr0n with guys fucking morbidly obese women, grannies, midgets, amputees, and sheep.

    you’re reaching.

    Like


  231. Oh, obsidian, so wrong, yet so determined to BE wrong:

    “Name one such country, Lurker? Let’s take Kenya, for starters. What I’m talking about, older White Woman going to parts of Africa for sexual purposes, are easily found on the Internet. Look it up.”

    —And where is the sex tourism for the Mahogony Vajayjay?

    And please, trying to claim that a few rich white sluts who end up in Kenya because no one else would have them is THE SAME number as men scooting off to the East is laughable.

    “And no, the big White gal was the one beng tapped for a BJ by a majority of White guys here. When it came to Toccara, they’d hit it. Two different things.”

    —please, boy, plenty of people were saying “i’d let them blow me, but not do me.” Just because you got a chubby for the dark fattie doesn’t apply to the rest of us.

    I repeat: Toccarra is a fat load.

    “The Hottentot Venus was sexually objectified, by White Men. This is a basic fact. Look it up.”

    —Nope. She was merely a circus sideshow freak. Look it up.

    T”he Bustle was invented because White Women don’t hav back like Sistas do, and wanted to correct that. Same deal w/tanning, collagen in the lips, and so forth. ”

    —-lol. Just another black studies argument.

    1. Then the invention of the flapper look/twiggy look negates all that.

    2. Women were tanning because of social reasons. Non-tanned skin was envogue when only wealthy women could afford to stay out of the sun. In the late 1800s, when the victorian era allowed most women to be indoors (either for work or play), THAT’s when tanning came into vogue,—because it was rare.

    Blacks were in the country for 300 years before that, and no one wanted tan skin. Look it up.

    3. Collagen in the lips is about youth, not blackness. When people get older, the lips get thinner. Collagen is about appearing youthful, like face lifts, not about appearing black. Unless you’re making the illogical claim that black women are also the reason for face lifts, lol.

    I also love how you don’t bother defending the lying little black sistas who claim white men are hitting on them but they’re merely turning them down. Porn doesn’t lie.

    ” Lurker would be hardpressed to actually list 10 Black Women that he actualy knows, yet has no problem saying some of the most outrageous stuff about them.”

    —lol. Maybe I don’t want to know a bunch of masculine, loud, rude thuggish women with over inflated senses of themselves. But hey, believe what you want.

    “Oh, and in case he’s reading, there is a nice niche market of Porn that features Black Women fucking White Men. I’ve personally seen some of the dvds. ”

    —lol moron. Niche=small, as someone else pointed out. The percentage is well below the % of black females in the population. The numbers are on par with scat porn, backing up my claim: non-blacks don’t fantasize about black women.

    “And again, I actually know Black Women who are constantly getting hit on by White guys.”

    —correction: you know a bunch of black women claiming this for ego’s sake.

    “They’re smatt, highly educated and gainfully employed in Corporate America, have been for years, and they live in the boonies.”

    —Affirmative action. And I don’t know about you, but highly educated gainfully employeed corporate types don’t live in the boonies usually, so your description is off.

    “They’re just not feeling said White boys for the aforementioned reasons. ”

    —Wrong. White men aren’t feeling these ghetto queens because they’re fat, ugly, masculine, rude, and stupid. But they’d never let on, because black women have this over-inflated, Mary Povich sense of self that means when a white clerk asks “IS there anything else you’d like?” they pretend they’re being hit on.

    “Brothas by and large, don’t get down like that.”

    —LMAO ROFL. I LOVE THIS LIE. The little black boys love pretending they’re all straight. Meanwhile, black women have the highest rate fo HIV rates in the country. WHy? Because the black gays are too afraid of coming out of the closet, and pass it on to them.

    There’s a reason so many black male celebrities dress so flamboyantly and dance so well…

    Obsidian, trying to make shit up about black men not loving the cock is hilarious. Keep going on the delusion and on the DL, boy.

    Two words: Michael Jackson.

    I love it when the bruthas get all uptight because they’re half-gay and they’ve got some ugly sistas in tow.

    Obsidian, this started with warpig getting all racially superior about blacks. She deserved the smack down. Stop defending her, she’s a disgusting beast with illogic coming out of her oozing crevices.

    Like


  232. Oh, obsidian, so wrong, yet so determined to BE wrong:

    “Name one such country, Lurker? Let’s take Kenya, for starters. What I’m talking about, older White Woman going to parts of Africa for sexual purposes, are easily found on the Internet. Look it up.”

    —And where is the sex tourism for the Mahogony Vajayjay?

    And please, trying to claim that a few rich white sluts who end up in Kenya because no one else would have them is THE SAME number as men scooting off to the East is laughable.

    “And no, the big White gal was the one beng tapped for a BJ by a majority of White guys here. When it came to Toccara, they’d hit it. Two different things.”

    —please, boy, plenty of people were saying “i’d let them blow me, but not do me.” Just because you got a chubby for the dark fattie doesn’t apply to the rest of us.

    I repeat: Toccarra is a fat load.

    “The Hottentot Venus was sexually objectified, by White Men. This is a basic fact. Look it up.”

    —Nope. She was merely a circus sideshow freak. Look it up.

    T”he Bustle was invented because White Women don’t hav back like Sistas do, and wanted to correct that. Same deal w/tanning, collagen in the lips, and so forth. ”

    —-lol. Just another black studies argument.

    1. Then the invention of the flapper look/twiggy look negates all that.

    2. Women were tanning because of social reasons. Non-tanned skin was envogue when only wealthy women could afford to stay out of the sun. In the late 1800s, when the victorian era allowed most women to be indoors (either for work or play), THAT’s when tanning came into vogue,—because it was rare.

    Blacks were in the country for 300 years before that, and no one wanted tan skin. Look it up.

    3. Collagen in the lips is about youth, not blackness. When people get older, the lips get thinner. Collagen is about appearing youthful, like face lifts, not about appearing black. Unless you’re making the illogical claim that black women are also the reason for face lifts, lol.

    I also love how you don’t bother defending the lying little black sistas who claim white men are hitting on them but they’re merely turning them down. Porn doesn’t lie.

    ” Lurker would be hardpressed to actually list 10 Black Women that he actualy knows, yet has no problem saying some of the most outrageous stuff about them.”

    —lol. Maybe I don’t want to know a bunch of masculine, loud, rude thuggish women with over inflated senses of themselves. But hey, believe what you want.

    “Oh, and in case he’s reading, there is a nice niche market of Porn that features Black Women fucking White Men. I’ve personally seen some of the dvds. ”

    —lol moron. Niche=small, as someone else pointed out. The percentage is well below the % of black females in the population. The numbers are on par with scat porn, backing up my claim: non-blacks don’t fantasize about black women.

    “And again, I actually know Black Women who are constantly getting hit on by White guys.”

    —correction: you know a bunch of black women claiming this for ego’s sake.

    “They’re smatt, highly educated and gainfully employed in Corporate America, have been for years, and they live in the boonies.”

    —Affirmative action. And I don’t know about you, but highly educated gainfully employeed corporate types don’t live in the boonies usually, so your description is off.

    “They’re just not feeling said White boys for the aforementioned reasons. ”

    —Wrong. White men aren’t feeling these ghetto queens because they’re fat, ugly, masculine, rude, and stupid. But they’d never let on, because black women have this over-inflated, Mary Povich sense of self that means when a white clerk asks “IS there anything else you’d like?” they pretend they’re being hit on.

    “Brothas by and large, don’t get down like that.”

    —LMAO ROFL. I LOVE THIS LIE. The little black boys love pretending they’re all straight. Meanwhile, black women have the highest rate fo HIV rates in the country. WHy? Because the black gays are too afraid of coming out of the closet, and pass it on to them.

    There’s a reason so many black male celebrities dress so flamboyantly and dance so well…

    Obsidian, trying to make shit up about black men not loving the cock is hilarious. Keep going on the delusion and on the DL, boy.

    Two words: Michael Jackson.

    I love it when the bruthas get all uptight because they’re half-gay and they’ve got some ugly sistas in tow.

    Obsidian, this started with warpig getting all racially superior about blacks. She deserved the smack down. Stop defending her, she’s a disgusting beast with illogic coming out of her oozing crevices.

    Like


  233. Oh, obsidian, so wrong, yet so determined to BE wrong:

    “Name one such country, Lurker? Let’s take Kenya, for starters. What I’m talking about, older White Woman going to parts of Africa for sexual purposes, are easily found on the Internet. Look it up.”

    —And where is the sex tourism for the Mahogony Vajayjay?

    And please, trying to claim that a few rich white sluts who end up in Kenya because no one else would have them is THE SAME number as men scooting off to the East is laughable.

    “And no, the big White gal was the one beng tapped for a BJ by a majority of White guys here. When it came to Toccara, they’d hit it. Two different things.”

    —please, boy, plenty of people were saying “i’d let them blow me, but not do me.” Just because you got a chubby for the dark fattie doesn’t apply to the rest of us.

    I repeat: Toccarra is a fat load.

    “The Hottentot Venus was sexually objectified, by White Men. This is a basic fact. Look it up.”

    —Nope. She was merely a circus sideshow freak. Look it up.

    T”he Bustle was invented because White Women don’t hav back like Sistas do, and wanted to correct that. Same deal w/tanning, collagen in the lips, and so forth. ”

    —-lol. Just another black studies argument.

    1. Then the invention of the flapper look/twiggy look negates all that.

    2. Women were tanning because of social reasons. Non-tanned skin was envogue when only wealthy women could afford to stay out of the sun. In the late 1800s, when the victorian era allowed most women to be indoors (either for work or play), THAT’s when tanning came into vogue,—because it was rare.

    Blacks were in the country for 300 years before that, and no one wanted tan skin. Look it up.

    3. Collagen in the lips is about youth, not blackness. When people get older, the lips get thinner. Collagen is about appearing youthful, like face lifts, not about appearing black. Unless you’re making the illogical claim that black women are also the reason for face lifts, lol.

    I also love how you don’t bother defending the lying little black sistas who claim white men are hitting on them but they’re merely turning them down. Porn doesn’t lie.

    ” Lurker would be hardpressed to actually list 10 Black Women that he actualy knows, yet has no problem saying some of the most outrageous stuff about them.”

    —lol. Maybe I don’t want to know a bunch of masculine, loud, rude thuggish women with over inflated senses of themselves. But hey, believe what you want.

    “Oh, and in case he’s reading, there is a nice niche market of Porn that features Black Women fucking White Men. I’ve personally seen some of the dvds. ”

    —lol moron. Niche=small, as someone else pointed out. The percentage is well below the % of black females in the population. The numbers are on par with scat porn, backing up my claim: non-blacks don’t fantasize about black women.

    “And again, I actually know Black Women who are constantly getting hit on by White guys.”

    —correction: you know a bunch of black women claiming this for ego’s sake.

    “They’re smatt, highly educated and gainfully employed in Corporate America, have been for years, and they live in the boonies.”

    —Affirmative action. And I don’t know about you, but highly educated gainfully employeed corporate types don’t live in the boonies usually, so your description is off.

    “They’re just not feeling said White boys for the aforementioned reasons. ”

    —Wrong. White men aren’t feeling these ghetto queens because they’re fat, ugly, masculine, rude, and stupid. But they’d never let on, because black women have this over-inflated, Mary Povich sense of self that means when a white clerk asks “IS there anything else you’d like?” they pretend they’re being hit on.

    “Brothas by and large, don’t get down like that.”

    —LMAO ROFL. I LOVE THIS LIE. The little black boys love pretending they’re all straight. Meanwhile, black women have the highest rate fo HIV rates in the country. WHy? Because the black gays are too afraid of coming out of the closet, and pass it on to them.

    There’s a reason so many black male celebrities dress so flamboyantly and dance so well…

    Obsidian, trying to make shit up about black men not loving the cock is hilarious. Keep going on the delusion and on the DL, boy.

    Two words: Michael Jackson.

    I love it when the bruthas get all uptight because they’re half-gay and they’ve got some ugly sistas in tow.

    Obsidian, this started with warpig getting all racially superior about blacks. She deserved the smack down. Stop defending her, she’s a disgusting beast with illogic coming out of her oozing crevices.

    Like


  234. lurker,

    stop multi-posting….Michael Blowhard is right…while i agree with some of your points, calling Obsidian “boy” does nothing but turn people against you. so, shut the fuck up for once.

    Like


  235. apologize for the multiple posts. slow loading.

    Chuck, Obsidian and warpig decided to make this all about black superiority, so they are just getting what they’re giving.

    Obsidian calls them white boys, he gets called boy and black girls become ghetto queens. He wants to act like adult and not the modern black racist, he doesn’t get smacked around.

    Like


  236. Lurker, this isn’t about Black superiority. That’s what you’re missing and why you come off as hysterical.

    This is about individual superiority.

    Stop riding the dead and gone dicks of your ancestors and stand on your own.

    I do. Obsidian does. You should too.

    Like


  237. Markku,
    Just read your thoughts about the wet tropical environments and what not. But how would you explain things like the Bubonic Plague, which threatened to completely wipe Europe out? Surely, such environments weren’t free from disease. So, something else has to account for the reason that, on average, Brothas fuck considerably more often, and more Women often, than White ones do.

    Gunslinger,
    No, I don’t “hatehatehate” White folks; what I’m doing is responding to the truly hateful comments, which have been going on here ad infinitum, and challenging head on those who promugate this crap. I’ve repeatedly shown that White Males DO INDEED get sexually turned on by stompdown Black Women, and to date, knuckleheads like Lurker cannot come back w/a credible response to that. For example, as Mike B has noted, how does one address the fact, that there are so many lightskinned Black people walking around? The ONLY reasonable conclusion is that White Men availed themselves of consequence free Black poon, since no White Man could be punished for having his way with a Slave girl. This practice continued well into the 20th century where Jim Crow was rampant, especially in the South; Black Women working as domestics in the homes of White folks would routinely be put upon sexually by the (White) Man of the house. This is what happened to Strom Thurmond, and how he winded up having a Black daughter, all the way being openly friendly with the Klan.

    Talk about hate…

    Chuck, I believe it was you who suggested that I was “reaching” when I noted that there are porn dvds and the like that feature Black Women having sex with White Men? Well, of course its a “niche” market, much of porn is these days. So what? My point is that such porn evidence DOES EXIST, and one doesn’t need to hunt high and low for it, either. Its pretty easy to find.

    Again Chuck, as Mike B pointed out, White Men going in for Black poon is nothing new at all. Check your history.

    And finally we come to Mr. Lurker. First off, Africa has long been a destination spot for White Men who wanted to do all the freaky stuff they couldn’t bring themselves to do with their wives. Evidence can be seen throughout the interior of Africa, and especially on its coastal states, like Kenya, Somalia, Ethiopia, Ghana, Nigeria, and so forth. There are many accounts of White guys having their way with Black Women during the colonial period, and in some cases, even after.

    Now let’s address your “downlow” comments. Yes, in the USA, this is problem insofar as Black Women are concerned. Granted. But when it comes to Africa, and even in the USA, that’s only one part of the story. The other part of the story is that both Black Men and Black Women tend to have more MLTRs than Whites, which introduces more sexual partners, which of course, heightens the chances of STDs being transmitted. So, this facet plays as much if not moreso than the DownLow, although the latter *is* a factor.

    Going back to sexual tourist spots, perhaps you’ve heard of Jamaica? Bahamas? Bermuda? These and other spots in the Carribean have long been known to be areas where White Women can go and get their fill-literally-of Black Wood on the quiet. It’s a very well known fact that a Woman on vacation is much more likely and willing to have some hot flings. The only difference btw them and the White guys who like boys in Thailand etc, is that, as usual, the Women are better at keeping their business from getting out in the street.
    And again, most White guys here, said they would hit it when it came to Toccara. Based on what we know sexually in American historical terms, that sounds about right. Again, see Mike B’s comments.

    And finally, Lurker, I don’t have any problem with you liking what you like and disliking what you dislike. What I have a problem is with you and your ilk trying to make some kind of moral or value judgment based on your personal biases. Not only is that wrong, but so are your constant and vicious attacks on Nicole, which are wholly beside the point and which brings nothing new in terms of understanding. They are gratuitous and completely lacking in taste or grace, and members of your own race have said as much right here in this venue. With such actions, no wonder you and your ilk are having a tough time getting laid.

    Especially by any Sistas.
    😉

    The Obsidian

    Like


  238. —“Chuck, I believe it was you who suggested that I was “reaching” when I noted that there are porn dvds and the like that feature Black Women having sex with White Men? Well, of course its a “niche” market, much of porn is these days. So what? My point is that such porn evidence DOES EXIST, and one doesn’t need to hunt high and low for it, either. Its pretty easy to find.”—

    You are reaching, again. Of course any kind of p0rn is easy to find, due to the internet. Bad example.

    Like


  239. Seconding Kthulah here.

    Thursday — Oh, I don’t care if someone says “I don’t find black chicks sexy.” Or “In my experience not many of my whiteguy friends find black chicks sexy.” Tastes will vary after all. If there are well-done polls demonstrating that a majority of white guys (through time and across cultures) don’t find black chicks sexy, that’s OK too. It’s even interesting. And I think that it’s a human universal that most people will feel some loyalty to their own tribe and some suspicion about other tribes. That’s ok, that’s just part of what it is to be human.

    BUT

    1) None of this is a good reason for someone like Lurker to act like a dick. For one thing, he’s making me feel ashamed of being a white guy. Class it up, Lurker-dude. You’re making the team look bad.

    2) There have been demonstrably MILLIONS of exceptions to the white-guys-don’t-find-black-girls-a-turn-on rule, if rule it actually is. Millions! That’s not a few exceptions, it’s a ton of exceptions. So a little nuance and shading wouldn’t go amiss from the guys who want to argue “white guys don’t find black girls hot.” How about they say “Me and my friends,” or “Most of the guys I know,” or even just “Many white guys,” and thereby acknowledge the existence of this sizable mob of exceptions?

    Like


  240. @ Explat

    “I hear you that man is not to hit you. If you have a good head on you, good on you. Maybe you don’t deserve to be hit.

    Some women do. They need smack, from time to time. Or once, to get things straight.

    Good that you don’t.”
    On a visceral level, as a woman, I feel compelled to disagree with your logic here, but, unfortunately, I think you’re right. The reason I don’t ‘deserve to be hit’ is because I give respect, which I then expect to returned in kind. Like you said, it’s about power, and women KNOW when they’re pushing a man beyond his boundaries (ie, disparaging him about his job, his dick, or anything else that represents masculinity). When you do that, as a woman, you can be pretty sure that you’re revving him up to hit you.

    But, then again, sometimes a guy is just an asshole who likes to hit women.

    @ Jack

    “(1) that a hot girl was using words like “whup any bitches ass””
    She was ‘ghetto’ that way.

    “(2) that you felt the need to profanely threaten your boyfriend”
    In a way, I think it was a shit test. We had just gotten together, and my friend was going through her issues, so I figured, There’s no time like the present. It was my way of making sure he didn’t think that shit was cute, which he didn’t.

    “(3) that any of the people described were actually attending a COLLEGE (supposedly for the smart and ambitious) in the first place.”
    Yeah, I thought the same thing. It was a REALLY good school, too. Crazy.

    @ lurker

    I’m black, and white guys jump out of the woodwork trynna ‘get at me,’ so, don’t be so quick to dismiss Obsidian’s observations wrt to his friends. In my travels, I’ve come upon quite a few white guys who seemed like they were just waiting for a (feminine, non-violent, lol) black girl to come along, so maybe what you’re describing are cultural aversions, not physical ones.

    “but it is probably safer to say that most white men in the U.S. are not attracted to black women and when they are, they prefer a more “mulatto” or “mixed “ look.”
    Not true. In my experience, I find that if a white guy wants a whitish-looking black girl, he’d just stick with white girls. I’ve known plenty of white guys, as friends, who preferred a black-looking girl. They were usually interested in me, more specifically, but I always tried to avoid the fetishists. 😉

    @ Obsidian

    “What I have a problem is with you and your ilk trying to make some kind of moral or value judgment based on your personal biases. Not only is that wrong, but so are your constant and vicious attacks on Nicole, which are wholly beside the point and which brings nothing new in terms of understanding.”
    I feel the same way, which is why I tried to give examples. One thing I notice is that, from what I’ve seens, white guys have a much broader definition of ‘hot’ when they’re talking about white girls, or even when they’re talking about non-black girls. Based on lurker’s rhetoric, it seems like the only way a black girl could be considered attractive would be if she were white, which is very odd to me.

    Like


  241. Chuck,
    Forgot to address your question about why it seems that Black Men tend to have sex more w/Women of differing races than White Men, apparently. I think there are a number of reasons as to why that is, but I’ll mention only a few.

    One, I think it has to do with Testosterone. Not only do Black Men have higher amounts of this than White Men on average, but it accounts for a higher sex drive. Since Men tend to like sexual variety, it would make sense that Black Men in particular would favor variety in mating.

    But that’s only one part of the story, for if these different Women didn’t feel attraction to Black Men, nothing is likely to happen. I think these Women feel attracted on average because Black Men tend to have more natural Game and Seduction skills/talents than White Men on average. That’s just a hypothesis on my part.

    Hope this answers your question.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  242. The only way to settle this very important question regarding the relative fuckability of white vs black tang is to set up a properly scientific study. This would involve presenting a large series of representative guys with a selection of white/brown/black/Asian, etc. ladies of the right age & condition available for free & honest “selection.” And to make sure the data is true, the guys should have to prove their feelings by appropriate action. And the best way to determine their (our) true ranking of all of them, all of them must be “selected” each in her turn.
    Anything less than this is stupid guesswork and posturing. Maybe the new Administration can be convinced to fund this study as part of the Stimulus Package.
    American men have always been willing to volunteer for service at time of crisis in our Nations History.

    Like


  243. lol @ Rum

    Like


  244. @ Obsidian

    “I think these Women feel attracted on average because Black Men tend to have more natural Game and Seduction skills/talents than White Men on average. That’s just a hypothesis on my part.”

    You might want to see my response to Welmer a few days ago in the Wed Man Walking thread.

    ““She’s posting on a PUA blog fer chrissake! And she’s got a boyfriend!

    What does that say?”
    I’m not sure how familiar you are with black culture, but let me share something with you. Somebody on this blog once inquired as to why there were no white women on this blog. That made me wonder why I found this blog so amusing. When I thought about it, I realized that black women MAY have a greater appreciation for Game, because black guys practice it almost from birth. It’s literally like a game between the sexes. My first “real” bf was a natural, and I loved it. My game vs his, it made for great sex. My current bf has just enough natural ability to keep me in check, which is good, because it was one of my main qualifiers for a long-term commitment.

    Does that explain why I’m here?”

    Like


  245. @ Obsidian

    Here’s some support for your hypothesis, my response to Welmer in the Wed Man Walking thread.

    ““She’s posting on a PUA blog fer chrissake! And she’s got a boyfriend!

    What does that say?”
    I’m not sure how familiar you are with black culture, but let me share something with you. Somebody on this blog once inquired as to why there were no white women on this blog. That made me wonder why I found this blog so amusing. When I thought about it, I realized that black women MAY have a greater appreciation for Game, because black guys practice it almost from birth. It’s literally like a game between the sexes. My first “real” bf was a natural, and I loved it. My game vs his, it made for great sex. My current bf has just enough natural ability to keep me in check, which is good, because it was one of my main qualifiers for a long-term commitment.

    Does that explain why I’m here?”

    Like


  246. my bad, I didn’t see it the first time 🙂

    Like


  247. Chloe

    I told my boyfriend I “would fucking kill him” if he laid a hand on me. I think that pretty much took care of it, but, then again, he doesn’t have violent tendencies.

    *shrug*

    Sounds very familiar to me.

    Guys: DO NOT stay with women who make violent threats. They often act on them in one way or another. Keep in mind that women often use violence indirectly (e.g. they have some dumb thug – or even cops – do it for them). Major red flag there.

    Like


  248. Markku,
    Just read your thoughts about the wet tropical environments and what not. But how would you explain things like the Bubonic Plague, which threatened to completely wipe Europe out? Surely, such environments weren’t free from disease. So, something else has to account for the reason that, on average, Brothas fuck considerably more often, and more Women often, than White ones do.

    Of course, areas outside the wet tropics weren’t free from infectious disease. What I’m saying is that the wet tropics had much MORE infectious disease than other areas. There are more types of pathogens ranging from parasites to virii in the wet tropics. Greater mortality caused by unpredictable factors combined with 12 month growing season kept population densities from reaching the carrying capacities of their environments as of then as happened elsewhere. A situation where fast reproduction paid off was more common than elsewhere. All of these differences are probabilistic.

    The immediate cause of black people, as a group, fucking more often than white and yellow people is their higher average level of testosterone (and higher number of testosterone receptors), which is an adaptation to the equatorial conditions in which their ancestors lived.

    Like


  249. from the article posted…
    “Too many women suffer domestic violence at some time and support centres aren’t able to answer all of the calls due to being under-resourced.”

    WRONG! There is plenty of ‘help’ out there for these women, however they choose/make the decision not to seek ‘help’ because that’s the LAST thing they want. They want to make excuses for the man of their dreams who beats them, they want this drama to continue and finally, they will continue to make excuses to anyone who tries to step in the way of the TRUE LOVE taking place. Beautiful post roissy.

    Like


  250. Shut the fuck up about testosterone receptors. I am a red haired white guy and I cannot remember a time or situation where the Answer to the Question was not Sure Babe. Brace Yourself.

    Like


  251. @ Welmer

    This is getting pitiful. It sounds like you had a very bad relationship, and, for that, I’m sorry. It’s not my fault, but I feel bad, because this woman obviously ruined you. She’s making you think that some random person on the internet is just like her, when that couldn’t be farther from the truth.

    That being said, let’s try some reading comprehension. When I say, “If…, then I will…” that ‘if’ part makes it a subjective clause, meaning that the only way “I will…” would be if that clause were fulfilled.

    If a man hits me, a very small woman, in a non-joking/playing way, I would be COMPELLED to defend myself. I never said I would call the police, because I wouldn’t. I would fuck his ass up, the best I could, in order to keep him from hitting me again.

    For that, a perfectly understandable plan of self-defense, I make no apologies.

    Like


  252. Obsidian,

    I understand all of that, and agree on some of your points, but you still have one major flaw in your argument.

    You generalize that women are attracted to black men b/c of their higher levels of testosterone and natural Game, but you don’t allow for the generalization that white men aren’t all that attracted to black women. You can’t have it both ways.

    We can go through the annals of history and find all types of women who men have found attractive at different times. I keep saying, white slaveowners’ and other powerful white men’s having sex with black women does nothing to prove your point. It only proves that many men will have sex with anything that moves. My dad had a friend who stuck his dick in a watermelon when he was younger. That doesn’t mean watermelons are hot.

    You keep saying that white men going for black pussy is nothing new. Of course it isn’t. Don’t think that I believe that. There are plenty of black women I would have sex with, but it doesn’t change the fact that I think white women are more attractive on the whole.

    My point, and a point proved by many black men’s sexual choices, is that given two choices, the average white woman and the average black woman, *most* men, black, white, asian, or whatever will select the white woman.

    You don’t really have much room for argument here.

    Like


  253. on March 10, 2009 at 5:26 pm Chuck

    You’re wasting your time. Anybody who thinks that easily available = popular doesn’t have/want a clue.

    Like


  254. Speaking of the attractiveness of Black women, I’d say that, while I do tend to find women of my own race most attractive, there are women of Sub-Saharan ancestry I find sexy. Naomi Campbell is one. There are probably millions of them in Africa.

    Like


  255. Chloe, Obsidian, this is why I don’t get too deeply into the details with such people. As statistics don’t negate our experiences, they don’t negate his either…and when you’re trying to relate to someone, it helps to walk in their shoes a bit. A person who can’t think rationally above a certain level will not be cured by the facts…and if their maximum level is toddler, any attempt to show them truth will just provoke a tantrum. “Things have to be this way because I want them to be!”

    People whose beliefs are in direct conflict with nature are tools who will follow any stupid ideology tickles their ego. Why not racial supremacy?

    I wouldn’t be more surprised or upset if he believed he was channeling the aliens who seeded the earth with humans, and decided White people should rule everyone else. Sound familiar?

    “We have higher IQ’s on average, and our models and actresses are generally recognized to be prettier, so we all deserve special treatment based on our exceptional minority.” That’s lurker in a nutshell. His identification category’s exceptional people’s benefits should trickle down to him, but your people’s exceptional ones are irrelevant.

    So he’s riding on the success of Ben Franklin, and you’re riding on your own. You can’t compare to Ben Franklin. It doesn’t matter to him that he can’t compare to you.

    Louis Farakhan rides on Fredrick Douglass…You could use anyone with an inferiority complex as an example of the low mentality that’s required to have one bad enough to lash out at people over stupid things.

    So have some compassion, and if not, then pity. Just don’t presume he can understand if you explain it to him. He can’t.

    Like


  256. If I’m not mistaken, someone mentioned current First Lady Michelle Obama and her Affirmative Action selection to Princeton, etc. Somehow, this is supposed to represent a case of the horrors of AA.

    However, we have to consider something else: what about the scores of WHITE WOMEN who also got over and attended schools like Princeton on the basis of AA? Afterall, as I and a few others have noted, White Women are the biggest beneficiaries of AA. Are we then to assume that only the White Women applicants are truly smart and deserving, and all the Black ones are not?

    Why is it so hard for the Anti-Affirmative Action crowd to squarely face the fact that White Women have benefitted tremendously from it, and address this accordingly?

    What’s up with that?

    Comments?

    O

    Like


  257. Shut the fuck up about testosterone receptors. I am a red haired white guy and I cannot remember a time or situation where the Answer to the Question was not Sure Babe. Brace Yourself.

    Would you fuck an UG if you risked shotgun wedding by doing so?

    Like


  258. Chuck,
    First off, the majority of Black Men, in this country, and regardless of social status, invariably choose Black women as longterm mates. And I suspect the same can be said for Men of other races, too.

    But we’re not talking about longterm pairbonding here; we’re talking about fucking. Big difference. And on that score, history in THIS country says, that yup, White Men, on average WILL fuck a Black Woman. Again, please see Mike B’s comments above.

    Sure, there are some White Women who are attractive, but now that the blue-eyed/blonde haired standard of beauty is slowly going the way of the Dodo Bird, other types of beauty are getting their time in the sun as well. In other words, being a Blonde Bombshell don’t have the same thrill that it used to.
    Let me let you and everyone else in on something, Chuck…

    See, I love this “human biodiversity” discussions, because I like taking the very ideas that guys like Lurker like to cling to, and turn them on its head. You say I can’t have it both ways, I say I never presented such a scenario; indeed, I argue the same thing in reverse, the race realists can’t have it both ways. The reality, and this is very important when it comes to Evo Psychi-informed Game, is that certain groups have inherent advantages and disadvantages. When it comes to Game, Brothas have an inherent edge. That’s a fact.

    Evo theory holds that all living things have but two drives: to survive and to reproduce. Players can take these basic drives and play on these themes, aping the behavior of Alpha males and the like, in order to get poon without actually reproducing. That’s all well and good, no harm no foul.

    But I take a differing tack on the whole thing. Every Woman that I select I do so on the basis of whether she’d be a good mommy to my offspring or not. Because I intend to leave quite a substantial genetic footprint before I’m gone. Game, both natural and acquired, helps me achieve that goal.

    Just wanted to toss that in the mix. Y’all holla

    The Obsidian

    Like


  259. We should just do the fucking study I proposed. Then on to a different topic.

    Like


  260. No Rum, we do not ned such a study. Open your eyes, study your country’s history, the end.

    White men WILL FUCK Black Women, period.

    And besides, I’m having fun skewering the loony logic of certain people here.

    But if you want, they’re having a heck of a time over on the NYC/billboard thread…

    Knock yerself out.

    O

    Like


  261. You have too little respect for Science.

    Like


  262. @ Chuck
    “My point, and a point proved by many black men’s sexual choices, is that given two choices, the average white woman and the average black woman, *most* men, black, white, asian, or whatever will select the white woman.”
    You might be right, but I see that more as a result of colonialism, slavery, and centuries of cultural brainwashing than simply physical attraction.

    Colonialism emasculated the black man (because black women watched as white men came onto their land and, with gunpowder, subdued them), slavery inflated the monetary value of women (esp. in America, because here, there was an emphasis on breeding, as opposed to the Caribbean and S. America cuz they just worked them to death and imported more), and the effects of cultural brainwashing (which portrayed white people as the best, the prettiest, the smartest, etc).

    Everything was thrown out of whack, and I think people are just starting to shake off the effects. That includes re-examining and re-negotiating societal relationships, so now, in this generation, we’re just starting to see lots of (voluntary) black-white relationships. I think some white guys were slow on the re-examining/re-negotiating part, whereas black guys were quick to take advantage. That’s only natural, since the old system benefited white guys the most.

    thulah
    “That’s lurker in a nutshell. His identification category’s exceptional people’s benefits should trickle down to him, but your people’s exceptional ones are irrelevant.”

    Nice summary. You basically explained white supremacy. I’ll think about this some more.

    @ Obsidian

    “Why is it so hard for the Anti-Affirmative Action crowd to squarely face the fact that White Women have benefitted tremendously from it, and address this accordingly?

    What’s up with that?”

    Excellent point, I’m curious to see if you get any replies.

    Like


  263. No Rum, the loonies don’t have much respect for science, history or basic observation in real time. We don’t need to do a freaking scientific study here. The evidence abounds. Again: how do you explain the MILLIONS of lightskinned Black people? How’d they get that way? Hmm? A bit of deductive or even inductive reasoning goes a long way, don’t you know.

    I’m really hoping someone will take up the Affirmative Action piece, and why White Women don’t called on the carpet anywhere near enough for it…

    O

    Like


  264. Chloe,
    Pleasure meeting ya! Didn’t know you were a Sista, I’ve enjoyed reading your comments.

    Yea, I’m very interested in hearing the Anti-Affirmative Action group actually explain to me why, there’s no Ward Connerlly equivalent for White Women, who invariably got over on AA, much more than Blacks ever did. How come we don’t hear a call t close down ALL Women’s Studies Depts, since they do nothing for society, and why there are no demands to get rid of the many do nothing jobs far too many White Women hold, and give those slots to more deserving White Men-all we hear about is the constant bellyaching and groaning about the few Black folks who got where they by way of AA. I wanna see if they can be consistent, or if they’re just scapegoating, hatin’ and being intellectually dishonest.

    If those who are against Affirmative Action are really serious, they’d be all for getting rid of White Women applicants, sports team admits, legacy kids and THEN Black folks. In that order. Until or unless open and loud, sustained chorus is heard along these lines and a Ward Connerlly style initiaives for White Women in AA is done, the only conclusion is that, again, the haters are scapegoating Black folks.

    Let’s see how many of our White brothers really have a pair of balls…

    O

    Like


  265. White women on the receiving end of AA don’t get lambasted nearly so much, because they are the wives, daughters, (or at least girlfriends) of the sort of white guys who worry about politics.

    And because they tend not to produce the kinds of spectacular incompetence that is hard to ignore in certain blacks who got ahead based on AA.

    White career girls are often more lacksadaisical, mediocre, and less-driven than their brethren, but if it’s your wife who’s been promoted ahead of the pack, you’re probably not going to complain about the system anymore.

    Years ago, there was some tension at my dad’s workplace between single-income male breadwinners and the female DINKs; the male DINKs didn’t exactly express a lot of solidarity with their traditional breadwinning brothers.

    Like


  266. AA has been good to me. It has put a lot of insecure white chicks into my profession while simultaneously displacing the white guys who would be my natural competition. Fuckaroma.

    Like


  267. And, anyway, my dad learned his lesson. He encouraged me to take my career seriously, delay marriage a bit, and put my kids in daycare when the time came.

    He saw the writing on the wall, and felt it made more sense to encourage me to game the system than fight it.

    It’s all about kinship.

    Like


  268. Oh OMW, please. Black folks hardly got the lock on incompetence. White Men have been incompetent more than the law allow, in our time, right now. Current fiscal crisis, anyone?

    No, I wanna see if those who cry the most about Affirmative Action really got some balls. If they really mean it, the FIRST place they’d turn to is their Women, and tell em, to their face, that all that Women’s Studies junk is gonna come to an end, get back in the kitchen and play your position like a good gal’s supposed to. We all know good and damned well that MOST White Women didn’t really deserve those slots they got, those jobs either, and in many cases the degrees awarded were BS anyway. I wanna see how much heart our White brothers really have.

    Comments?

    O

    Like


  269. Yes, lol, the white guys loused it up good on that one.

    Indeed, most white guys have zero interest in actually being breadwinning patriarchs, with wifey in the kitchen and a passel of kids in tow. I think we’ve established this already.

    Where people benefit by the system, they’ll support it, and where they don’t, they won’t. What’s the great surprise there?

    You’re not expecting some kind of philosophical purity on Roissy’s blog, are you?

    Like


  270. on March 10, 2009 at 6:51 pm Wounded Animal

    Why is it so hard for the Anti-Affirmative Action crowd to squarely face the fact that White Women have benefitted tremendously from it, and address this accordingly?

    What’s up with that?

    Comments?

    Black women are still ugly and boorish.

    Like


  271. And most White Women have flat asses.

    Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way Mr. Wounded, care to actually answer my AA question?

    O

    Like


  272. @ Obsidian
    I’ve enjoyed reading your comments as well. You remind me of a lot of ‘real playas’ I know, men who respect ‘the female creature’ and love them, frequently and in great numbers, lol.

    @ omw

    “You’re not expecting some kind of philosophical purity on Roissy’s blog, are you?”
    No, but if this is supposed to be the place ‘where pretty lies perish,’ then O’s point should be a perfect fit. The end of AA for white women would mean increased dependence on white men, and desperate girls are easy, right?

    Like


  273. Wounded, we had very good instructors.

    Like


  274. I agree, Chloe. If women stopped having “careers” tomorrow, they would indeed be a lot more dependent on men, and the social pressure to settle down and marry would be much, much more intense on members of both sexes.

    Shrug. It isn’t going to happen, though; white men want a return to “Leave it To Beaver” even less than Gloria Steinem does.

    Like


  275. But I don’t think they would be more “easy,” absent the prospect of lucrative employment.

    I think they would keep a tighter reign on their marriage-market value, which definitely means keeping their numbers down and pushing for more commitment before sex than a lot of them currently do.

    I’m still amazed that otherwise perfectly decent girls will get into bed with a guy they only met that night. !!

    Like


  276. Chloe,
    Excellent retort of yours in reply to OMW’s points. Please note how, everytime I mention the overwhelming presence of WHITE WOMEN in relation to AA, how the room suddenly goes silent. So much for intellectual honesty and just plain ole balls, huh?

    As for my comments you spoke to, yea, I actually love Women and love em a lot more since my formally studying Game. Women cannot help their impulses and subconscious minds anymore than we Men can help not looking at a hot babe. It is, what it is. Which is why that old saying is so true: when you go looking for the Truth, be prepared to find it.

    There is a very noticeable near-hatred for Women on the part of *some* of the voices on this site that I can’t relate to at all. Of course, there are Women who can and will and do some pretty heartless things; but I don’t take them to be representative of Women as a whole.

    One thing I’ve found is that a good number of my White Brothers seem to harbor ill will towards Women, and that bothers me. Game is supposed to make one a better person, at least that’s how I like to think of it. But it seems that a good number of guys, Game brings out the worst in them. Really weird.

    Anyway, let’s see if anyone is brave enough to have a real discussion on Affirmative Action…

    O

    Like


  277. Obsidian,

    I respect your comments. I too enjoy the HBD discussion, but you’re too thick-headed on this.

    I know that white men WILL fuck black women. That doesn’t mean that overall, white men are all that attracted to black women.

    If we had to make a scale (something that Rum is talking about) with points of attraction b/w two races, a white man’s attraction to black women will be lower on the scale than a white man’s attraction to most other races of women. What’s so hard to understand about that? Nobody is trying to talk about individual preference here; this isn’t that kind of discussion. We’re talking about trends and generalizations which is what HBD *has* to be about in order to get anywhere.

    FWIW, I am not Lurker, or Willard Libby or any of those guys so save your “flipping HBD on it’s head” for them.

    Like


  278. lol @ kthulah

    @ omw

    “It isn’t going to happen, though; white men want a return to “Leave it To Beaver” even less than Gloria Steinem does.”
    Yeah, because then they might have to take some responsibility for all that fucking. I could be wrong, but based on the comments here, it looks like a lot of white men would prefer black men out of the workforce, to eliminate competition, but want to keep white women, because work is a decent place to meet them.

    Nice dream, but it’s not gonna happen.

    Like


  279. on March 10, 2009 at 7:20 pm Gunslingergregi

    “Gunslinger,
    No, I don’t “hatehatehate” White folks; what I’m doing is responding to the truly hateful comments, which have been going on here ad infinitum, and challenging head on those who promugate this crap. I’ve repeatedly shown that White Males DO INDEED get sexually turned on by stompdown Black Women, ”

    I grew up in ghetto and could not fuck the black chicks. I do not get turned on by them. I was getting offered free pussy for bikerides and did not bother to take it up. I tried it later to see what it might be like and my dick will not fuck a black woman. They can manually jack me off or suck it. It will not stay hard to fuck a black chick it is repulsive on a conscious and subconscious level. They can not have this white boys seed in their vagina.

    Like


  280. Yeah, I think that’s a pretty good run-down of the situation, Chloe.

    Although it’s not even so much that work is a good place to meet women (though it can be) but that if your wife’s income is improving your own standard of living, you don’t much care about the politics behind it.

    Like


  281. Chloe,
    Yup, you naild it, at least partially. White Men don’t really want “fair competition” they want to eliminate it. Which is human. But like you said, it ain’t gonna happen. For a whole host of reasons, chief of which the neverending Status War between White folks.

    O

    Like


  282. Chuck,
    I get what you’re saying, and I think the hbd trends you speak of can be easily be seen at work wrt the sexual history of this country, which both Mike B and I have spoken to at some length. Of course, all White Men won’t be Jonesing for all or even some Black Women; but the historical record is irrefutable at this point.

    And I no, you’re definitly not Lurker or Willard.:)

    O

    Like


  283. @ Obsidian
    “Please note how, everytime I mention the overwhelming presence of WHITE WOMEN in relation to AA, how the room suddenly goes silent.”
    I’ve noticed that too, with the exception of omw. Could it be, is it possible that the only person reading this with any balls is a GIRL?!? lol

    “One thing I’ve found is that a good number of my White Brothers seem to harbor ill will towards Women, and that bothers me.”
    Yeah, I see a lot of that around here. They’re viewing women as the opponent instead of as a fellow team member. A man is not an invading army, most women want to have sex, and you don’t have to trick them into it, but they also like a man who makes it FUN, the whole process of meeting and working up to it. The hatefulness is unnecessary, and may hamper one’s efforts.

    @ omw
    “if your wife’s income is improving your own standard of living, you don’t much care about the politics behind it.”
    True, but the guys at this blog, for the most part, aren’t married, AND, modern women, for the most part, don’t know how to date a guy without having sex.

    So, if they were all of a sudden jobless, I don’t see that changing. I see them still having sex, but trying harder to get a commitment.

    Like


  284. Like I said, AA has been a high pressure pipeline of eager pussy for me. Think on it…

    Like


  285. on March 10, 2009 at 7:44 pm Gunslingergregi

    The only time I ever witnessed a gang beatdown of a woman was when a black woman went up to a black man and smashed a coke can off his face. All the other black men there piled on her ass. Boggled my mind.

    Like


  286. on March 10, 2009 at 7:45 pm Gunslingergregi

    The only time I saw trains being run on white bitches or heard about it was black guys doing the train. Never saw it done to a black woman.

    Like


  287. So, there needs to be more White guys like Rum, who can be man enough to simply admit they want White Women there, but not Black folks. Then we can have an open competition for the spoils, which suits me just fine. I was born to compete.

    And win.

    O

    Like


  288. on March 10, 2009 at 7:47 pm Gunslingergregi

    The only time I have ever seen a group of guys beat up one guy was when it was black men on one white man.

    Like


  289. Gunslinger,
    What does *any of this* have to do with the topics on the table? Please explain the purpose of your non-sequiturs? Thanks.

    O

    Like


  290. These guys aren’t married, no, but most of the taste-makers and pundits who help forge public opinion are (or plan to be, eventually.)

    Anyway, it’s always been my impression that it’s moms who benefit by AA more than your average single girl– affirmative action helps take the edge off the career loss brought on by motherhood.

    Though it is my opinion that kids do better with Mommy at home, anyway– and most women will be more fulfilled at home, with their children and other mothers, than they are in the working world.

    Double careers are hard on a marriage even without kids in the mix.

    Hard-charging childless chicks would probably still do reasonably well on their own merits, provided they could signal to their employers that they aren’t Mommy Flight risks. Honorary men!

    Like


  291. on March 10, 2009 at 7:52 pm Gunslingergregi

    The only time I have personnaly been around woman getting beat or their arm broken or raped it was black men.

    Like


  292. Yea, so? What does this have to do with the topics at hand, GS? Please explain (for the second time)? Thanks.

    O

    Like


  293. I have always questioned the idea of affirmative action. I prefer that decisions be made on the basis of merit not membership in whatever group is currently most favored. Competence is important; race, color, creed, gender and political affiliation are not. I express this view directly to everyone I know, including the women, some of them hard core feminists. I enforce this view in any domain over which I have power and encourage it wherever I might have influence.

    Like


  294. Chloe,
    Yea, the near hatred on the part of a lot of guys here toward Women is something that baffles me. I don’t get what the point of learning game is, if one harbors such ill feelings. They certainly don’t sound like they’re having fun…and when they do score, to me, it looks so empty.

    It occurs to me that White folks, Men and Women both, have a different flavor or tone to the way they interact with each other, that simply is not in evidence when it comes to Black folks. To be sure, we Black folks have our issues and problems, but they don’t seem to be of the same kind or type.

    For example, White folks tend to place an extreme emphasis on youth, near obsession levels of focus I would say. Such a thing is rarely brought up among the Black people I know, anyway. Another is the whole status issue; both White Women and definitely White Men, are so caught up in that, they don’t seem to have much fun in just hanging out. The whole enterprise is drenched in angst and anxiety, no wonder they’re so wound up, and again, these things aren’t even in the room when it comes to Black folks, by and large.

    When I think about all this things, I feel really bad about my White Brothers and Sisters.

    Comments?

    O

    Like


  295. You’re black, Chloe?

    My apologies then — I thought you were the stereotypical white girl with an enormous sense of entitlement. White women are an entirely different bag of tricks. They have the whip hand over just about everybody these days. One accusation from a white woman shedding crocodile tears is enough to ruin a man’s life.

    Ask all the black guys who got lynched over false accusations from white women about that.

    But I don’t consider myself ruined. Kind of lucky in a way, actually. I’ll come out of this somehow. Perhaps for the better.

    I’m just a man, after all, and I’m starting to be comfortable with that again. It isn’t such a bad thing to be.

    Like


  296. on March 10, 2009 at 8:15 pm Wounded Animal

    Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way Mr. Wounded, care to actually answer my AA question?

    Sure. Larry Summer made much the same point. And admittedly, whites give each other a leg up. It’s perfectly logical and legitimate to prefer members of your own race rather than the Other.

    To the extent white men are reaching to pull white women aboard, it indirectly proves our point: white men want white women around them. That is also the point underscored by the extremely low rates of black female out-marriage, and even in-marriage. The fact that Thomas Jefferson or Strom Thurmond get a low-cost romp out of their kept negresses proves nothing.

    Like


  297. It is true, too, that lots of white guys do complain about gender-based AA, but you just don’t hear much about it in the pundit class.

    My husband complains sometimes of some entirely lackluster woman getting promoted over him, “and we all know WHY she got it!”

    But his buddies are dating or married to these women, so he’s not going to get too awfully bitter about it.

    There are tradeoffs involved, too; dual-career couples often have rough family lives. If that’s the kind of life we had wanted, we could have been in the same position.

    Or we could have made him into the stay-at-home dad and had me game the system for money… but everyone here knows how that tends to turn out.

    Money can’t buy everything.

    Like


  298. on March 10, 2009 at 8:16 pm Gunslingergregi

    The only time I personnally knew someone interacted (played basketball with) that has ever been accused of raping a little girl (under 10 years old) it was a black 16 year old.

    Like


  299. God, are you going to GET OFF THIS TOPIC soon? Go back to being a funny asshole instead of just a plain old asshole.

    Like


  300. on March 10, 2009 at 8:25 pm Gunslingergregi

    You don’t have to feel bad for white people obsidian. The complaints that are made towards the white people from white people are on a whole different order than the problems white people would bring up about black people if that were the nature of the beast. I think people are trying to figure out how to deal with more personnal pressing issues at moment and that normally no one needs to constantly go on about how fucked up black men are compared to white men.

    Like


  301. Obsidian,

    “They certainly don’t sound like they’re having fun…and when they do score, to me, it looks so empty.”
    I’ve often wondered why a lot of these guys even bother. I mean, if you want sex, without any kind feelings toward the other person whatsoever, you could pay for it. Less aggravation. Or, you could just fuck sluts. That way, it’s free, as long as you wrap things up appropriately. 😉

    But why even waste the time, yours and hers, of getting to know her and scheming to get in her pants, if you don’t actually like being around her?

    Maybe hurting the women is part of the fun of the pick-up?

    Wrt to what you said about black vs white styles of communication and status/youth, you bring up some good points. I tried to touch on it when I said ‘a man is not an invading army’, but that’s definitely the vibe I get from a lot of comments here. It’s like, they don’t like each other and are having sex and/or getting married with the sole intention to screw each other over. Weird. I don’t know how to describe it really, but you did a good job, for our purposes. 🙂

    @ Welmer

    “You’re black, Chloe?”
    Um, yeeess, but I don’t have a t-shirt or anything, lol. I didn’t feel the need to announce it, it should come up organically, within the flow of conversation. 🙂

    So, has this revelation changed your opinions in anyway, ie, do you still think I’m a violent, on her way to Fattyville, money-whore? Just curious.

    Like


  302. Yea SS, you tell em; GS, what’s your point? I mean really, you aren’t adding anything to the discussion at all.

    OMW, my point is that all too often, *some* White guys try to make their personal issues into some kind of grandiose moral or value judgments on an entire segment of people, instead of merely just owning up to the fact that they, like everyone else, have agendas. Of course Affirmative action ain’t about being “colorblind” its about getting rid of competition, the very thing so many White folks, guys, claim to be for all along (free markets?). They make themselves out to be huge hypocrites, and cowards to boot, since most of them would never even fix their mouths to tell White Wome to their face what they really think about their degrees and so on.

    Rum, good call on Summers-and note the collective silence on the part of WHITE MEN who didn’t lift a finger to help the Man while he was being led to the gallows. That more than anything, should tell you about the moral character of so many White Men, hmm?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  303. on March 10, 2009 at 8:37 pm Gunslingergregi

    “Chloe,
    Yea, the near hatred on the part of a lot of guys here toward Women is something that baffles me. I don’t get what the point of learning game is, if one harbors such ill feelings. They certainly don’t sound like they’re having fun…and when they do score, to me, it looks so empty.

    It occurs to me that White folks, Men and Women both, have a different flavor or tone to the way they interact with each other, that simply is not in evidence when it comes to Black folks. To be sure, we Black folks have our issues and problems, but they don’t seem to be of the same kind or type. ”

    You are ignoring the truth maybe one day it will set you free. As Chloe said she is black and she said her friend was tough yet contantly getting beat up by her boyfriend. He was more than likely black. He more than likely beat her like she was a man. That is also why chloe had to state to her black boyfriend don’t you lay a hand on me or I will kill you.

    The white guys on the beating thread were talking about one slap or something with there woman. It is black men who are the ones trying to beat there woman like she was a man. Why I said in past thread he didn’t beat her that bad it kind of surpized me that he only kept slapping the shit out of her and did not make her whole face black and blue. White men were not talking about hitting there woman even close to the way that brianne took hits.

    Like


  304. on March 10, 2009 at 8:43 pm Gunslingergregi

    “Obsid
    They make themselves out to be huge hypocrites, and cowards to boot,”

    Black men are the only ones I have seen beating down one person with a gang.

    When you pick one of them up by themselves they ain’t got nothing to say.

    Look at the UFC black men will beat the shit out of a white dude and the white dude will keep trying even though he is getting the shit beat out of him he will not tap out. Now take the same black man that was doing that and he comes against a dude who is beating the shit out of him. He taps like a little schoolgirl to get the fuck out of the ring he stops trying and goes into run mode.

    Like


  305. on March 10, 2009 at 8:44 pm Gunslingergregi

    No Obsid I will not be adding anything to help your side. I saw no redeeming qualities to black people growing up.

    Like


  306. Gunslinger, have you been drinking tonight? Your posts are becoming increasingly incoherent, and I’m not trying to be snarky or smartassed here. I mean it. Seriously.

    O

    Like


  307. on March 10, 2009 at 8:50 pm Gunslingergregi

    Just telling it like it is bro. I grew up rich, middle class, and poor got to see life from a lot of angles.

    Like


  308. on March 10, 2009 at 8:52 pm Gunslingergregi

    You want to spit bullshit I want to spit truth.

    Like


  309. on March 10, 2009 at 8:57 pm Wounded Animal

    Obsidian,

    You’re still missing the point. The fact that a bunch of well-placed feminists ram PC down the Ivy League’s throat is neither here nor there on the issue at hand: that black women are comparatively much less attractive to white men than other races. This is borne out by the fact that black women have extremely low rates of out-marriage, and even in-marriage. Many men will copulate with prostitutes; does that mean they’ll pursue a serious LTR with a prostitute? Similarly, the fact that some white men can get a low-cost orgasm with a negress doesn’t prove your delusion of white men all lined up ten deep to hump overweight, low IQ black women.

    Like


  310. on March 10, 2009 at 9:01 pm Gunslingergregi

    You Obsidian hate out of jealosy.

    I hate for a reason.

    See the difference.

    Like


  311. No, you just slobbering all over the place. It’s cool though, GS, you don’t think very highly of Black folks. Fine. Now, what does this have to do with the topics being discussed? Please explain?

    Chloe,
    Yea, the interactions btw White Men and Women seem, to me, to lack a certain “soul” for lack of a better way of putting it. There’s a hardcore mercenary undertone there, that is disturbing to me, and that makes me sad.

    The whole “Pump & Dump” notion is indicative of this to my mind. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m no prude and see nothing wrong in the least in a purely or mostly sexual relationship. But there’s a certain kind of callousness involved in the P&D mode that rubs me the wrong way. I’m with you on that note, why go to all the trouble of learning Game, going through the gauntlet, only to do something like that ultimately? And, why go through all the trouble for people you don’t even like, and may harbor feelings of hatred for? I don’t get it.

    O

    Like


  312. We are all Gods Children. So be kind.

    Like


  313. on March 10, 2009 at 9:05 pm Gunslingergregi

    Obdis your over 40 years old. You have only pumped and dumped. Again what is your excuse. Why do you think you have some higher moral ground you don’t

    Like


  314. on March 10, 2009 at 9:07 pm Gunslingergregi

    Rum did you grow up with black people?

    Like


  315. GS,
    No, I’m not over 40. I’m 40 years old, on the button. But in any event, what does my age have to do w/anything here? The point is that I take issue w/those who do the pump & dump thing. Which is something I’ve never done; the vast majority of Women I was involved with entailed longterm relationships. I just happened to have several running at the same time, is all.

    O

    Like


  316. Obsidian,

    the same factor that make black men winners in the sexual market make black women losers. Get over it.

    Like


  317. I just happened to have several running at the same time, is all

    LOL! Bill CLinton couldn’t say it any better!

    Like


  318. Chuck, nobody is or was every saying that *generally* White men find Black women *more* attractive than White women in *general*. Are you daft?

    The problem was that any time a Black women mentions being looked at by anybody ever, certain posters launch a hissy fit about how it’s impossible for a Black woman to be more attractive than…a watermelon.

    …and that all the Black women who were screwed by White men during colonialism, slavery, and Jim Crow were just…watermelons, or they looked like White women.

    …that generally, something is wrong with all of you that you’re incapable of recognizing the youth and fertility of a woman if she has brown skin and a broad nose. You’re defective. That’s Lurker and some others’ argument…that you’re all fucked in the head that way.

    …because you’re White, and something about a lack of melanin makes you automatically repelled by melanin. You can…smell it or something, in your hindbrains…yeah, that’s the ticket.

    LOL!

    Like


  319. Wounded,
    It is you who keeps missing the point; the discussion was never about longterm relationships, it was about fucking, period. When it comes to that, the historical record, several centuries long in this country, proves the point; White Men most certainly WILL fuck Black Women.

    Period.

    And in light of the popularity of the Pump & Dump move here, I find it most amusing that suddenly the conversation has to shift to longterm pairbonding when it comes to Black Women and White Men. LOL! I find that most amusing.

    So, Wounded, my good man, if you still are having trouble accepting historical facts, I suggest you take it up with somebody. I don’t know who, and really don’t care.

    O

    Like


  320. We are all Gods Children. So be kind.

    CoeXisT!

    Like


  321. on March 10, 2009 at 9:32 pm Gunslingergregi

    Not really even black men winners in sexual market. No black guy I knew was able to pull a barbie doll with a convertable I did coming from the same environment. The black guys did not have access to the popular pretty girls for dating in high school. With drugs they where able to pull some ass later. It was always a alpha white poor male who was pulling a white top 1 percent hot female.

    Like


  322. @ Gunslingergregi

    “As Chloe said she is black and she said her friend was tough yet contantly getting beat up by her boyfriend. He was more than likely black.”
    He was not black; he was hispanic. For that matter, how do you know she was black? (She wasn’t.) Assumptions are not helping your point.

    @ Obsidian

    “There’s a hardcore mercenary undertone there, that is disturbing to me, and that makes me sad.”
    Me, too. No wonder these guys are so angry.

    Like


  323. @ Obsidian

    “And in light of the popularity of the Pump & Dump move here, I find it most amusing that suddenly the conversation has to shift to longterm pairbonding when it comes to Black Women and White Men. LOL!”
    Lol, indeed.

    Like


  324. about how it’s impossible for a Black woman to be more attractive than…a watermelon

    Considering all the females in Congo in the 18-35 age bracket, ignoring the possibility they have AIDS, I would require Viagra support to fuck 75% of them. With watermelons it would 100%. In Russia, certainly less than 10%.

    Like


  325. @ Welmer

    “You’re black, Chloe?”
    Um, yeeess, but I don’t have a t-shirt or anything, lol. I didn’t feel the need to announce it, it should come up organically, within the flow of conversation.🙂

    So, has this revelation changed your opinions in anyway, ie, do you still think I’m a violent, on her way to Fattyville, money-whore? Just curious.

    Well, all I can say is that at this point I don’t know, and I won’t pass judgment.

    If you were an urban white girl with the same attitude, I’d definitely be extremely suspicious. Black women have a much more natural, understanding attitude toward men like me. White women tend to treat me like a dangerous animal, despite the fact that I’ve been very gentle.

    I’m a big, athletic guy, and black women don’t seem to be intimidated by that. White women have used it against me, e.g. the “he’s a big brute” song and dance.

    Like


  326. Gig,
    The question of who is or is not, winning or losing in the sexual market is irrelevant to the discussion. The discussion is centering on the FACT that White Men certainly have found Black Women attractive enough to fuck. A lot. To the tune of MILLIONS of lightskinned Black people as a result. This is historical fact in this country. Look it up.

    All this other stuff you and Wounded, Lurker and Chuck (to a far lesser extent in the latter case) are tossing in are completely beside the point; you guys simply cannot accept the truth that is in front of your faces.

    But don’t worry. We’re here to help.;)

    O

    Like


  327. on March 10, 2009 at 9:39 pm Gunslingergregi

    The middle class to rich white alphas were pulling the rest of the top 30 percent.

    Like


  328. Wounded says, “Similarly, the fact that some white men can get a low-cost orgasm with a negress doesn’t prove your delusion of white men all lined up ten deep to hump overweight, low IQ black women.”

    Wounded, don’t try to talk about a world you’ve never seen.

    I found out my street value at the age of 38, and even at 40 lbs. heavier, it was the same as a White female college student.

    It might not be on the level of an amputee or a dwarf, but it’s more than a watermelon.😉

    Like


  329. The discussion is centering on the FACT that White Men certainly have found Black Women attractive enough to fuck

    this is obvious . It is also obvious that 99% of white males would rather fuck a white woman in the 30th percentile of beauty among whites than a black woman in th 60th percentile of beauty among black chicks

    Like


  330. on March 10, 2009 at 9:44 pm Gunslingergregi

    “Chloe
    @ Gunslingergregi

    “As Chloe said she is black and she said her friend was tough yet contantly getting beat up by her boyfriend. He was more than likely black.”
    He was not black; he was hispanic. For that matter, how do you know she was black? (She wasn’t.) Assumptions are not helping your point.”

    Chloe as you said he wasn’t white.

    Like


  331. Easy Gig, your Ignorance is beginning to show.

    First off, Congo is one of over 50 countries on the African continent. If you know anything about genetics, you would be aware of the fact that sub-Saharan Blacks carry within their genes the potential for far more variation than do other races, especially Whites. This means that not all Black folk look alike, and again, if you took just a bit of time to study the matter, you’d see that.

    Moreover, your chances of contracting HIV is about the same in Moscow as it is in Congo, or Botswana or Uganda; Russia is one of the European leaders in HIV infection rates, and has been for some years now, due in the main to IV drug use. Lots of those Russian hotties are strung out on the smack, son.
    Protect ya neck!

    O

    Like


  332. on March 10, 2009 at 9:45 pm Gunslingergregi

    You folks didn’t like the statistic that only 29 percent of black woman get married. So I gave from my own personnal experience I physically cannot have intercourse with a black woman. Yet I can have intercourse with white woman and asians.

    Like


  333. Gig, I am not in the Congo, and I am not HIV positive.

    What’s your point?

    My problem is not that you aren’t attracted to Black women. I could give a rat’s ass since I’m not in line to fuck you anytime soon either.

    My problem is that every time a Black women mentions anything remotely related to anyone being attracted to her, some of you freak the fuck out and start spewing irrelevant statistics that have fuck all to do with me or any other Black woman posting here.

    What does what is going on in the Congo have to do with the multiple Russian guys who were trying to get into my pants last Friday?

    Like


  334. 30th 60th percentile

    one of those three is causing moderation of the comment

    Like


  335. Shit…now they’re going to argue that Russians aren’t White. Start the countdown to intellectual implosion.

    Like


  336. @ Welmer

    “Black women have a much more natural, understanding attitude toward men like me. White women tend to treat me like a dangerous animal, despite the fact that I’ve been very gentle.”
    So I was right when I said that someone had hurt you. And, you think I’m (slightly) bitchy, but you’re willing to let it slide because I’m black. Interesting.

    “I’m a big, athletic guy, and black women don’t seem to be intimidated by that.”
    No, we’re usually not. You, too, would get your ass knocked out by a frying pan if you touched me wrong, lol.

    Like


  337. @Gunslingergregi

    “Chloe as you said he wasn’t white.”
    Don’t try to change the subject now that your appropriation of my example has gone awry. In your 8:37 post, you said,

    “The white guys on the beating thread were talking about one slap or something with there woman. It is black men who are the ones trying to beat there woman like she was a man.”

    I’ve proven you wrong, at least in the case of my example.

    Now say you’re sorry. 🙂

    Like


  338. Kthulah,

    This whole discussion, every time it’s happened, starts because someone says that only black pop-icons with white woman features are successful.

    One side says that it’s because white women are more attractive than black women. The other side (mainly Obsidian) says that if that’s true then where have all of the mulattos come from and what explains Strom Thurmond and Thomas Jefferson? He uses that point to hammer home his belief that black women are just as attractive as whites.

    These are two different arguments. It is not necessary for white men to find black women just as attractive as white women for them to copulate and procreate. It only corroborates the fact that men, whites too, will fuck a wide variety of women. The truth is that black women like Beyonce and Halle Berry are considered the hottest black women because they have white features.

    I don’t care where Lurker and others are coming from. I’m a guy that is attracted to all kinds of women. I’m not afraid of a bigger nose, lips, or ass, but I also recognize, if I have to be honest, that black women are not as attractive as white women.

    Further evidence of my point is black men’s choice of white women as sex partners is much greater than the opposite. There is generally a lack of attraction, compared to black men/white women, than there is between white men and black women. You misconstrue me if you think that means white men are the ones with the option. For the most part, the lack of attraction is mutual.

    Like


  339. on March 10, 2009 at 9:56 pm Gunslingergregi

    It is the blacks who started shoving black woman down white mens throats on this blog trying to prove to all these people that yes they would love to fuck a black woman. It is just not true.

    Like


  340. on March 10, 2009 at 9:57 pm Gunslingergregi

    Lol chloe and I said I only ever saw a group of black guys beat a woman.

    Like


  341. Obsidian, it’s a combination of IV drug use and **rampant** prostitution, according to a few of my friends. Some of them, though Russian themselves, avoid Russian women because of this.

    It’s not uncommon for a pretty young girl to do some time in explicit or de facto prostitution until she finds a (beta) sucker who will forgive her past because she’s hot.

    Lots and lots of willing victims here in Israel. Two of my married friends got hooked in that way. One in particular was a de facto client of the woman who trapped him with a pregnancy.

    Like


  342. Gunslinger, none of us did any such thing. In fact, we’ve repeatedly told you guys that you’re welcome to your preferences…just that the thought policing and denial is disturbing.

    Like


  343. Gunslinger,
    Again, I find it laughable that the standard bearers & apostles of the almighty Pump & Dump move suddenly wants to rattle off marital stats when it comes to Black Women. LoL! You guys are really scraping the bottom of the barrell, ain’t ya?

    Again: Thomas Jefferson.

    Strom Thurmond.

    The End.

    O

    Like


  344. on March 10, 2009 at 10:00 pm Gunslingergregi

    I never grew up with hispanics so I don’t know shit about what they do. I did grow up with blacks.

    “The white guys on the beating thread were talking about one slap or something with there woman. It is black men who are the ones trying to beat there woman like she was a man.”

    The white guys were talking about a slap where was I proven wrong about shit.

    Like


  345. No Chuck, this time it happened because I mentioned last Friday I was in fear for my chastity because some guys decided I was an easier target than my far more conventionally attractive friends.

    Like


  346. on March 10, 2009 at 10:02 pm Gunslingergregi

    blacks on here refusing to say jack to any point I bring up only wanting there narrow points answered and when they get answered in every way they ignore it.

    Like


  347. What’s funny is that that post was more about my being almost 20 years older than my friends than it was about my being Black.

    The oldness is what actually makes me less attractive in raw terms. Lurker made it about the Black.

    Like


  348. Gunslinger, when someone is talking out of their ass about shit that doesn’t matter, I just let them do it. They can do no harm…just circle jerk with equally stupid sheeple.

    If you can control yourself, I’ll direct you to some Black activism boards where I do the same thing with Black people talking out of their ass about White devils.

    Like


  349. on March 10, 2009 at 10:08 pm Gunslingergregi

    I am making a family Obsidian and achieving something that will last a long time with a woman as my teammate. What have you done?

    Like I said no redeeming qualities.

    I have pointed out that it is the divorce laws that are fucking with the men and marriage. The woman would not act the same way if the laws did not allow them too.

    Like


  350. I am making a family Obsidian and achieving something that will last a long time with a woman as my teammate. What have you done?

    Like I said no redeeming qualities.

    Why does starting a family count as a redeeming quality? What makes the person who starts a family automatically better than the person who doesn’t? Especially if the divorce laws are as fucked as you say and men are screwed as a result? If it’s really as bad as you say, isn’t the guy who doesn’t get married and start a family smarter than the guy who thinks those things but goes ahead and does it anyway?

    Like


  351. “No Chuck, this time it happened because I mentioned last Friday I was in fear for my chastity because some guys decided I was an easier target than my far more conventionally attractive friends.”

    No, my dear, it started b/c of lurker’s comment March 9 @ 2:46
    then Obsidian’s reply at 3:55.

    Funny on two counts: 1. that you think a certain topic would be tossed around non-stop on this blog from Friday until Tuesday and 2. that you think this blog revolves around you

    Like


  352. Gunslinger,
    ??? First of all, the discussion wasn’t about family formation; second, you don’t know what my familial situation is or isn’t like, and it’s none of your business in any event.

    Now, we were taking up he question, of whether White Men can be sexually attracted to Black Women; I and several others, have proven this to be the case. If you have something to contribute in that regard, please do.

    Otherwise…

    O

    Like


  353. on March 10, 2009 at 10:16 pm Gunslingergregi

    Would be very easy to refute there claims though wouldn’t it. White men are not out raping black woman. White men are not beating black woman to a pulp. White men are not gang raping or pulling trains on black woman. White men are not going up and killing black people for no reason. White men are not gang beating people so that there face is unrecognizable for no reason. White men are not out robbing people of there wallet and money. In most peoples personal lives.

    Like


  354. @ Gunslingergregi

    “blacks on here refusing to say jack to any point I bring up only wanting there narrow points answered and when they get answered in every way they ignore it.”

    Sweetie, you’re getting ignored because, aside from the hyperbolic “black men are violent” and the easily refutable “black women are ugly”, you’re not making any points.

    Do me a favor. List your points, and I’ll address them.

    Like


  355. Chuck, you know what?

    You’re either stupid or playing stupid. I’m done with this.

    No use arguing with dumbasses.

    If you want to believe you’re superior, you go right ahead.

    Some time ago, Roissy said that if someone knows the government is suppressing a cure for a disease, they have bigger problems than some crap from this blog.

    Well, I’ve got that to deal with, as well as a racist law in 30 states that I’m in the process of rendering obsolete.

    While you’re jerking off about your ancestors, I’m working on the world for my descendents.

    Have a ball. Heh.

    Like


  356. Would be very easy to refute there claims though wouldn’t it. White men are not out raping black woman. White men are not beating black woman to a pulp. White men are not gang raping or pulling trains on black woman. White men are not going up and killing black people for no reason. White men are not gang beating people so that there face is unrecognizable for no reason. White men are not out robbing people of there wallet and money. In most peoples personal lives.

    What does this have to do with whether white guys find black women beautiful? Honestly, I don’t give a fuck about the debate, in my opinion black women and white men for the most part mutually don’t find each other that attractive unless faced with an especially attractive or successful specimen and there are studies backing this up. But at least stay on the topic. Between this and brining up Obsidian having a family you’re all over the map here.

    Like


  357. on March 10, 2009 at 10:23 pm Gunslingergregi

    “T. AKA Ricky Raw
    I am making a family Obsidian and achieving something that will last a long time with a woman as my teammate. What have you done?

    Like I said no redeeming qualities.

    Why does starting a family count as a redeeming quality? What makes the person who starts a family automatically better than the person who doesn’t? Especially if the divorce laws are as fucked as you say and men are screwed as a result? If it’s really as bad as you say, isn’t the guy who doesn’t get married and start a family smarter than the guy who thinks those things but goes ahead and does it anyway?”

    Yea except that Obsidian specifically put down da because he was a black stereotype and obsidian had to straighten him out as obsidian was himself a black man it was his duty. He had no response for why he was a black stereotype himself or why his father failed him. Plus he is 40 so he didn’t have a family back before this shit really kicked off. So your pathetic excuse for him doesn’t cut it.

    Like


  358. on March 10, 2009 at 10:25 pm Comment_Whatever

    Alot of this hostility can simply be summed up as this:

    The economy is really, really bad and screaming about the oppression of black people means only one thing to white people at this point.

    You want money. And they don’t have money.

    Expect a reaction that you aren’t going to like.

    I think black people would get things easier if they realized that low-status whites are treated EVEN WORSE than they are. Not really kidding here. Your finely tuned sense of oppression(relative to white people who lack wealth) is simply wrong.

    Also:
    Chuck said:

    Further evidence of my point is black men’s choice of white women as sex partners is much greater than the opposite. There is generally a lack of attraction, compared to black men/white women, than there is between white men and black women. You misconstrue me if you think that means white men are the ones with the option. For the most part, the lack of attraction is mutual.

    I think blacks may have higher T levels, or other masculinizing hormones. This makes for above average looks men and below average looks women. And indeed this is what we see. Whites have lower levels of T, or other masculinizing hormones, and so have less attractive(compared to blacks) men and more attractive women, and indeed this is what we see.

    That’s all folks.

    Like


  359. @ T. AKA Ricky Raw

    “If it’s really as bad as you say, isn’t the guy who doesn’t get married and start a family smarter than the guy who thinks those things but goes ahead and does it anyway?”
    From what I’ve gathered here tonight, all the normal, Game rules go out the window when you’re talking about black people. For example, we’re talking about general fuckability, and people are responding about long-term relationships. Or, a white guy says he’s better than a black guy because he’s married and/or reproducing?

    I thought that both LTR’s and marriage were antithetical to the point of this blog, but, apparently, when you’re talking about black people, the goalposts are on wheels.

    @ Gunslingergregi

    “White men are not out robbing people of there wallet and money. In most peoples personal lives.”
    Um, have you noticed the global financial disaster? Planned and orchestrated by white men. And, unlike your average thief, they’ve ruined MILLIONS of lives and won’t even get any jail-time (see Bernie Madoff).

    @ kthulah
    Please explain this to me. Some Russian guys tried to rape you??

    Like


  360. Yea except that Obsidian specifically put down da because he was a black stereotype and obsidian had to straighten him out as obsidian was himself a black man it was his duty. He had no response for why he was a black stereotype himself or why his father failed him. Plus he is 40 so he didn’t have a family back before this shit really kicked off. So your pathetic excuse for him doesn’t cut it.

    A black stereotype would not be being 40 and not starting a family. It would be being 40, having tons of kids everywhere out of wedlock with different women and not taking care of them. Being 40, having a steady job, not being a criminal or in jail and choosing to be single and not have kids is not a black stereotype, sorry.

    Like


  361. For the record, I don’t consider DA a black stereotype either.

    Like


  362. Gunslinger,
    The guy who was in court up in NYC, Maddoff? White.

    The guys who killed their pregnant wives and in at least one case, tried to blame it on a Black guy? White.

    The women who drown their own kids in bath tubs or drove their cars into rivers w/their kids buckled in their seats? White.

    Dudes who shootup abortion clinics? White.

    Guys who shootup schools? White.

    The guy who blew up that building in OK? Yup, you guessed it, White.

    The other guy from Europe who had babies by his own daughter, locked up in the basement for yrs? White.

    The vast majority of Pedophiles? White.

    The vast majority of serial killers and rapists, like the BTK Killer? White.

    Charlie Manson? White.

    Dudes who seekout other dudes, many of whom were Black, on the premise of hooking up sexually with them, only to end up being that night’s dinner? Jeffrey Dahmer was White.

    I could go on and on about the downright heinous stuff White guys, and some gals even, do, on the regular.

    But we’re not talking about White pathological behaviors. We’re dealing with the question of wheher White Men have shown signs of sexual interest in Black Women, and again, the historical record shows quite clearly, that they most certainly do.

    The. End.

    O

    Like


  363. @ Comment_Whatever

    “Alot of this hostility can simply be summed up as this:

    The economy is really, really bad and screaming about the oppression of black people means only one thing to white people at this point.

    You want money. And they don’t have money.”
    What on earth are you talking about? Nobody mentioned oppression, nor did anyone ask for money.

    Where are you getting this crazy-talk?

    @ T. AKA Ricky Raw

    This is what I was talking about. Total irrationality when you start talking about black people.

    Like


  364. Chloe, with Russians, rape is a very strong word. Rape is what happens when a guy beats or otherwise renders a woman unconscious…no, well…a woman he doesn’t know.

    Physically forcing a woman you know or are really really attracted to, who doesn’t work hard enough to kill you, to have sex is just forceful sex.

    So, when not in the U.S. it’s a good idea to have male friends who aren’t typical in that way, and will protect you from others.

    So in American terms, yes I knew if I didn’t stay close to my friends, something was going to happen. When my male friends sensed something was up, and there were only three of them, and five of the other guys, we got out of there…politely, but firmly, and didn’t take their offers for more alcohol.

    Fighting is kind of the secondary thrill. If you don’t get laid, then you get into a fight. Not all Russians are like this, but many are.

    Like


  365. Kthulah:

    What in the hell are you talking about?

    I point out with proof that this current black women/white men debate didn’t stem from your rape allegation on Friday and now I’m the stupid one?

    I’ve given you a chance; haven’t responded to your idiotic comments, and it even seems you garnered some respect from respectable commenters on this board, but now you go all Kthulah on us again. I thought you’d put your troll days behind you.

    And good luck ridding states of racism from fucking ISRAEL!

    Like


  366. on March 10, 2009 at 10:42 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea something personnal from your life a white person did to someone you know Obsidian.
    I am all ears.

    Like


  367. Chloe —

    My first “real” bf was a natural, and I loved it. My game vs his, it made for great sex. My current bf has just enough natural ability to keep me in check, which is good, because it was one of my main qualifiers for a long-term commitment.

    Does that explain why I’m here?”

    It’s refreshing to hear a woman, apparently a hot one, with that much self knowledge, especially on this sort of topic. Unusual, and refreshing.

    As to the last, yuup. Though I never had any problem, even remotely, with your being her. In fact I’d suggest that having such a problem is a pretty strong indication of betatude. Maybe severe betatude.

    As well though, this blog of Roissy’s in not just dedicated to arguing and illustrating the importance of game for men in today’s dating and social environment, and teaching some of it, it’s also dedicated to analyzing and taking a stand on the current American hyper feminist skewed relations between the sexes. Indeed Roissy’s very first post, about “endless dating” was aimed more at the later concern.

    But his second or third one, don’t recall at the moment, did involve game advice re: the narrow circumstances when it’s possible to win back a recently ex girl friend, and what to do and not do to that end. That post was wildly successful, generating some 90 comments over the course of a month or two. That thread became Roissy ex girl friend reclamation dating service. Probably it’s what started to put him on the map. Previously and in the next several posts his comments didn’t get over 6 or 10. No wonder he began focusing more on game per say, and feminism etc. only secondarily. That might have been his intention from the get go, but it’s easy to see how he could have been audience pulled if it only sorta was.

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  368. As we can see, the Id Monster is alive & well, & in full effect. Please note how just the mere mention of certain historical facts sends some White folks into a tizzy. This one is for the record books, y’all, LOL!!!

    The Obsidian

    Like


  369. on March 10, 2009 at 10:45 pm Gunslingergregi

    Or maybe a beatdown of a black man by a group of white men. A black woman you knew that did get raped by a white man. Have you ever been robbed by a white man. Do you think that maybe you could get shot in the head by a white kid who thought it would be cool to join a gang. Do you know anyone who was eaten by a white man. Where you ever there when white men pulled a train on a black woman.

    Like


  370. Yea something personnal from your life a white person did to someone you know Obsidian.
    I am all ears.

    What does this have to do with white men being attracted to black women again?

    Like


  371. Chloe writes: “They’re viewing women as the opponent instead of as a fellow team member. A man is not an invading army, most women want to have sex, and you don’t have to trick them into it, but they also like a man who makes it FUN, the whole process of meeting and working up to it. The hatefulness is unnecessary, and may hamper one’s efforts.”

    Hey, all that strikes me too, and I’m as vanilla-colored as can be. So I don’t think it’s strictly the racial angle that enables you to see that.

    In my own case, age is what gives me the perspective. I remember a time when guys and gals weren’t nearly so antagonistic as (judging from this blog) they seem to be today. Back in the ’70s and early ’80s (my own single days) things were by comparison pretty fun, flirty, and affable. It was a general assumption that we were all on the same team finally. Adventures were there to be had … Most people were eventually going to be settling down but why not explore the moment a little? …

    I mean, most white Americans have always been kind of clueless, dorky, and uneasy about romance and sex, and I and my cohort certainly had our share of that. But this open, cold hostility, this active dislike of women and of the processes of romance … That’s all new to me. Where did it come from?

    I wonder if it has to do with the fact that a lot of commenters here seem to be geeks. In my experience, geeks have always been super-uneasy with flirtation, romance, etc. They want it to be over, and to cut directly from singlehood to a no-trouble wife, a house, and fun kids. They want to work hard, and have everything else just be fine. Above all, they want no part of the idea of the pursuit as a fun thing in and of itself, let alone of (for guys) women being the ultimate mystery, art, and sport. They find all that stuff beyond-excruciating.

    But maybe not. Maybe it’s a bigger general change in the white-people-and-romance zeitgeist.

    Anyway, it’s fun reading your comments.

    Like


  372. No, you’re stupid because you don’t even know what sparked off this episode and turned the warpig cries in my direction, and you’re saying that because I do know, I think the whole blog revolves around me.

    Now you’re calling what I’d call a merely tense situation with some risk due to cultural differences, a “rape allegation”.

    Go fuck yourself, moron.

    Like


  373. Gunslinger, these things you mention happened all the time in South Africa, and still go on in South America and other parts of the world. What’s your point?

    Like


  374. Though I stand by my assertions about the average attractiveness of black women, this thread has degenerated into a bunch of general nasty assholery. I do not wish black people ill and, whatever my differences with Obsidian, he has always been a gentleman on this site.

    Like


  375. Ob, Kthulah — A round of applause for both of you. Excellent demo of patience, brains, knowledge, clear-headedness … I wish some of my brothers-in-whiteness were managing to come halfway up to your level but sadly in this thread they haven’t been. Sigh. Sometimes the teammates let you down.

    Like


  376. See, this is why I just write all this crap off as sheeplism. It’s not even real racism. Real racism is Romanians vs. Gypsies. White vs. Black in the U.S. is just Americans thinking the whole world is the U.S. and that their pathetic hierarchy of tools constitutes human reality.

    Like


  377. So anyway, back on to the Affirmative Action piece…

    Like I said, the notion that there’s a noble cause in making America color blind vis a vie Affirmative Action, is a sham. Its a sham because the loudest voices against it-namely White Males-never really intended it to be such a lofty thing. They only wanted Black folks out of it. They’re completely cool with incompetent White Women gettin’ over on it.

    So, this is why I like to call my White brothers on the carpet when they get to bitching about AA. Get them to admit that they really don’t want a true level playing field; that in truth, they just one one kind of player removed from it. Black folks. White Women are cool, Black folks, so long as they’re playing sports, is cool, and of course, Legacy admits, where lots of White guys hail from, is definitely cool.

    Its all a cruel joke.

    And Black folks know this.

    And which is why, so long as the neverending Status War among and btw White folks rages on, AA will NEVER END. And as long as White guys equivocate on the other forms of AA, that’s how it should be. Black folks have helped build this country, fought for it, bled and died for it. We are going to make sure we get the full measure of our rightful share. Period. Especially if certain White guys don’t like it.😉

    So there.

    Comment & reply, holla back…

    O

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  378. on March 10, 2009 at 11:12 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea blowhard my teammates let me down. I had to grow up with blacks because my white brethren let me down and had to see with my own eyes the lies of white people to cover up the black reality. Would have been much better for me to never have seen. Would have been much better if my white brethren would have allowed me the out that I begged for in the form of suicide being socially accepted form of leaving hell on earth.

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  379. I really don’t think the dating scene/marriage market among white people is universally this angry, M. Blowhard.

    My days ended a little more than six years ago, and the zeitgeist can surely shift in six years, but it never seemed to me that the sexes were hostile nuclear forces sizing each other up for strategic alliances.

    (Some of the hostile invective here comes from angry divorced folks. They’re angry everywhere, surely, but social pressures force them to keep their wounds tightly bandaged in offline venues.

    Publicly complaining about one’s divorce is on par with repeatedly bringing up your grandma’s fecal incontinence issues. Everyone will sympathize to your face, but nobody will actually like you better for it.)

    But yes, lots of people, even women, detest the Courtship phase. It is so fluid, uncertain, unpredictable, awkward, frightening.

    You don’t know how it will pan out. It could be over tomorrow!

    What so many of both sexes fail to understand, in my view, is that the Long-Term-Relationship phase isn’t some magical promised land, free from changes and impervious to external circumstances. You gotta stay on your toes!

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  380. Again GS, take it up w/your SWPL brothers & sisters. That’s who your real enemy is, and this is true accross the spectrum. But of course, your ilk punks out on actually confronting them, just like y’all tend to punk out on the Affirmative Action piece; you won’t confront White women, and you won’t confront those blueblood legacy admit types either. No wonder you have such a hard time scoring gals. Very few like to entertain getting it on w/a Man w/very little backbone.

    O

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  381. @ kthulah

    “Physically forcing a woman you know or are really really attracted to, who doesn’t work hard enough to kill you, to have sex is just forceful sex.”
    I get it. Well, in any event, I’m glad you’re safe, and I would tell you to stay that way, but you’re in Israel, so… just try to stay alive and keep your ‘stuff’ on lock. 🙂

    @ dougjnn

    “Unusual, and refreshing.”
    Two of the highest compliments a woman can receive. Thank you.

    “Though I never had any problem, even remotely, with your being her. In fact I’d suggest that having such a problem is a pretty strong indication of betatude.”
    To be fair to Welmer, the guy who asked why I was here, he was working under the assumption that I was white. Once I had disabused him of this notion, lol, he became surprisingly congenial. I’m still trynna figure that out.

    @ Michael Blowhard

    “Hey, all that strikes me too, and I’m as vanilla-colored as can be. So I don’t think it’s strictly the racial angle that enables you to see that.

    In my own case, age is what gives me the perspective.”
    You know, as soon as I wrote that, I thought of my experiences with older white men and how the generalization might not hold for all age groups, but then, I reconsidered including it, since the group here seems so young.

    Maybe the contentiousness is the result of being raised in the post-feminism age (???).

    “Anyway, it’s fun reading your comments.”
    Thanks.😉

    Like


  382. Michael Blowhard

    I mean, most white Americans have always been kind of clueless, dorky, and uneasy about romance and sex, and I and my cohort certainly had our share of that. But this open, cold hostility, this active dislike of women and of the processes of romance … That’s all new to me. Where did it come from?

    Ever faced potential incarceration because some woman put you on the hook? Ever had cops come after you with automatic weapons due to false allegations?

    When women become a threat to your life and freedom, it’s hard to have that warm, happy feeling about them.

    Ever heard of VAWA? That started in the 1990s. It’s for my generation to deal with the summary ex-parte judgments that can put a guy out on the street and remove him from his children on hearsay.

    You’re from Seattle, right? Take a trip down to the King County courthouse downtown sometime and go to the clerk’s office on the 6th floor. When you enter, as you approach the main desk, you will see a line of people to your left waiting to talk to a special clerk. The line is dedicated to guys who have been served with ex parte restraining orders, and to the women who can obtain them no questions asked. Most of these people are the same age as those posting on this blog. When I had to file motions myself in my custody case, seeing that line there next to me put the fear of God into me. I count myself as lucky that I wasn’t one of those poor guys.

    Also, after going through a special security cordon guarded by a sheriff with heavy body armor that includes a metal detector and bag search, you can go to the family law section on the second floor. There are lots of helpful services for men, including court-ordered DV diversion programs that can take over a year (wanna see your kids? Better spring for a humiliating program that treats you like a criminal whether you’ve been convicted or not). Remember, getting upset and yelling at your wife for messing around with another guy is considered “domestic abuse.” So is avoiding her when she’s on the rag — no kidding, I’ve heard it myself straight from the horse’s mouth. When a guy gets married, he might as well cut off his balls and hand them to the state on a silver platter.

    The 60s and 70s sure were fun, weren’t they? Well, I’ll tell you straight up that the last couple decades have been a nightmare for young men.

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  383. OMW,
    As I observed before, it occurs to me that White Men and Women relate to each other in ways that seem alien to me; you can *feel* the angst and anxiety that just isn’t there when I’m among my own. It seems like there’s a lot of pressure to choose the “right” person, lest your social circle rejects you or makes fun of you, etc. And that’s something that most Black Men seem to care all that much about, I certainly don’t. I care about what makes me feel good, period.

    I get the distinct impression that White folks don’t seem to have much fun on the dating scene. How could they, when their every waking moment is consumed w/notions of youth vs “hitting the wall”, etc. And then all that work and aggravation, just to pump & dump, or being on the receiving end of same. It just doesn’t make sense.

    I’ve hung out in several White bars and lounges, and again, I could feel the anxiety and angst. Hanging at dives in the hood, there is the absence of tension, at least that kind anyway. Its quite an educational experience.

    O

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  384. Ob — I’m anti-AA, and if it knocks a lot of white women out of their place in line I’m double-fine with that. FWIW, I think employers should be free to hire whoever they want without worrying about quotas or government assholes checking their employment rosters … I’m open, I guess, to the idea of government itself being required to hire roughly along percentage-of-the-population lines. But private businesses? Let ’em do what they want to do. Is that your position? Or do you see a role for AA in private business?

    Hey, an interesting point about quotas, business, and such? Did you know (I didn’t until recently) that small businesses are legally free to do wildly unbalanced hiring? That’s why you can go into a deli and find everyone in the place to be Korean, for instance. The idea behind that law is that small family businesses should be able to employ lots of family members. I think it holds up to something like 19 employees or something like that.

    Like


  385. @ Gunslingergregi

    “Would have been much better if my white brethren would have allowed me the out that I begged for in the form of suicide being socially accepted form of leaving hell on earth.”
    I really want to be sympathetic here, and to a degree, I am, but, really, do youo think you’re helping the situation by crapping on decent, non-raping/stealing/killing black people?

    What is your desired end result?

    Like


  386. on March 10, 2009 at 11:25 pm Gunslingergregi

    What white male would want to keep any affirmative action. It does nothing to help them in any way.

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  387. Yes, picking the Right Kind of Mate is extremely important to white people of every social station, and has been since the dawn of whiteness.

    LOL.

    Isn’t that basically the plot of every one of Jane Austen’s books?

    Still, I think most of us do it with more humor and grace and… basic decency than you’d get the impression of having at a bar, or from zealous debaters on a pick-up-artist’s blog.😉

    Most actual long-term pairings happen more organically, through social networks like school, work, and church. Places where people sort themselves out un-self-consciously.

    Bars and the internet are mainly for cheap hookups, and you have to expect to see wickedness and deceit there, and the angst the accompanies the main courses.

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  388. 1. Obsidian is right. White people do seem a lot more pretentious and status obsessed than blacks or natives.

    2. I suspect that the lack of hostility towards AA for women is that white women have the same average IQ as white men, so they usually can handle the intellectual demands of any job that a man can do. There is more hostility to AA for women in careers where they are not as physically capable as men. Female firemen or soldiers for example.

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  389. Mike B,
    On principle I’m against AA. The problem for me though is that lots of White guys don’t want to get rid of AA as much as they want to get rid of certain players who benefit in some way from AA, namely Black folks.

    I would like to see ALL forms of AA gotten rid of-that means, no legacy admits, no sport scholarships, no White Women getting in, etc. Strict, ruthless and brutal meritocratic standards only, based on standardized testing. Either you pass or fail, regardless of your color or gender. Period.

    Now of course, this will mean that Black folks won’t be in the mix much, at least early on, but neither will lots of White folks. In fact, if what we know about IQ is true, we can expect two groups to emerge quite strongly in the main: Jews and Asians. They will become the official Cognitive Elite of the United States under my program, and I’m completely cool with that because they have earned their way in based on strict and pure merit.

    Of course, it remains to be seen as to whether White guys will be cool with that. Something tells me no, but they’ll have a very hard time trying to make the case for their inclusion when clearly they can’t cut it.

    Comments?

    O

    Like


  390. Though it is my opinion that kids do better with Mommy at home, anyway– and most women will be more fulfilled at home, with their children and other mothers, than they are in the working world.

    The problem with that it isn’t cheap, and well, quite frankly, we’d have to reduce the amount of nice stuff we could buy, and she’d harass me for my income. The last thing that I want is arguments with her complaining about how she can’t buy item X because she can’t afford it, but her friend in the dual income family can afford it.

    Mind you, I’m biased since my mom has been a stay at home mother for over twenty years, and you can see part of her resentment.

    “You’re black, Chloe?”
    Um, yeeess

    A black girl named Chloe? My oreo heart grows fonder…

    They want it to be over, and to cut directly from singlehood to a no-trouble wife, a house, and fun kids.

    I don’t know about others, but one could say that for those of us who are openly lazy about dating, we’d like to cut around the middle portion between meeting somebody and having sex with them and in some cases, marrying them. In other words, the pursuit is the tedious and useless aspect because it’s filled with failure and difficulties, and we just want a direct short cut from meeting to sex to marital bliss.

    Like


  391. Thursday,

    So, are you implying that I, as a black woman, should have to take a special IQ test to compare me to white people before I get a job?

    Like


  392. on March 10, 2009 at 11:37 pm Comment_Chloe

    Chloe said:

    What on earth are you talking about? Nobody mentioned oppression, nor did anyone ask for money.

    Where are you getting this crazy-talk?

    You’ve like been reading this thread, right? It’s gotten really nasty. Both Obsidian and his attackers have discussed Affirmative Action. The bad economy is why it is such a sensitive topic right now.

    The intensity of this topic makes little sense. Personal attractiveness varies so much from person to person, that any white man or black woman can say “I’m above average” which they can be. This hostility is clearly NOT about relative attractiveness. It doesn’t even make sense from a racist point of view. If black men look better, and black women(on the average, Chloe, on the average, though you can send me a picture and I’ll verify for you) look worse, is that somehow racist against blacks? I don’t think it is.

    On the side, I now have more understanding about your need to issue extreme threats to your boyfriend about hitting you. A white woman would be a show-boating little b!tch for making such a threat to her white boyfriend… but you probably need to draw that line.

    And that is an example of actual miscommunication. You’ll notice that the fact that Welmer thought Chloe was white when she threatened to “Kill her boyfriend if he laid a hand on her” set Welmer on a “I hate Chloe” fit for HOURS. Then he realizes she’s black, and is like, Ok, you needed to do that.

    Sadly, that last paragraph is completely true and probably the most racist thing I have said all night.

    Like


  393. Welmer — I live in NYC, actually. But no, I hadn’t been aware that the VAWA had worked out like that for many younger guys. Interested to learn more. I’d imagine that PC generally has made life awkward for many young men. And it didn’t really super-kick in until around 1990. So that timing does make sense.

    Ob — Yeah, I think you’re right. Many white people are spoiled, materialistic, and anxious about their place in line. One result is an amazing inability to settle into, let alone enjoy, the moment. (Typical white people assume they aren’t going to get around to enjoying life until after retirement.) They want to be thinking of themselves as dynamically on their way someplace, prefererably up the status line. Letting go of that self-conception, if only to enjoy a nice evening together, can strike them as terrifying. The hyper-individualism of much of white culture doesn’t give them any help either. It used to be that a lot of white Americans looked to Europe for help with this psychological/emotional quandary — Europeans were thought to know how to live. Many white people in the ’50s and ’60s and ’70s also looked to black people and black culture for help with their anxieties and franticness. Blacks were thought to be much more immediate, much more into the moment itself, much less locked in their anxious heads. A lot of this may have been projection and sentimentality. But at least during that stretch there was an attempt on the part of a lot of white people to move beyond white-people uptightness. Then for some reason white people gave up on the quest to grow up sexually and returned to chasing after material things and status. Why? I think it may have had to do with drugs. The ’50s-thru-’70s quest was fueled in large part by drugs, and the drugs didn’t work out too well for a lot of people. So when they dropped the drugs, they not only reverted to previous attitudes, they kind of demonized the erotic quest. Weird.

    Like


  394. @ David Alexander

    “My oreo heart grows fonder…”
    That’s something else I wanna work on with you. Why do you feel the need to distinguish yourself so strongly from other black people? As you well know, we’re not all bad…

    Like


  395. on March 10, 2009 at 11:41 pm Gunslingergregi

    Obsid thinks he can say what the fuck he wants about white people as a group while coming up with nothing from personnal experience. I can come up with a wealth of knowledge from personnal experience about black people.
    He states blacks are somehow more sexy than white men as well. I state that that is bullshit too along with majority of garbage that comes out of his mouth that he spouts like it is some sort of truth.

    Like


  396. I don’t think any group should be issued an IQ test just because of their racial background, but what irritates the category of whiteboys who work in mostly intellectual occupations about AA is that you DO see blacks get promoted who are very obviously *not* equal to the task at hand. They will not respect him.

    And Thursday is also right about the hostility toward women in the military being driven by obvious physical weakness.

    It is MORE than a little ridiculous to see a 40-year-old female first sergeant who can’t run two miles in under 20 minutes, browbeating 35-year-old “subordinates” who could easily thrash her and leave her on the side of the road.

    They KNOW that she’s their first sergeant because the military has quotas to fill, not because she’s actually capable of earning their respect.

    Shrug.

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  397. However, we have to consider something else: what about the scores of WHITE WOMEN who also got over and attended schools like Princeton on the basis of AA?

    O, love you man, but there is no Affirmative Action for White women on college campuses. Women are a majority on America’s campuses, and if there is Affirmative Action, it’s for the men. In fact, Time actually had an article called “Affirmative Action for Boys” last year.

    Like


  398. Is anyone else very happy to welcome omw here? Now that Hope and Clio have retired from this blog, the place has been much lacking for intelligent female commenters.

    Like


  399. I miss Hello too.

    Does anyone know what’s become of Hope?

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  400. Hey Sparks,
    Yea, I remember Chic Noir mentioning something about that. Thanks for the link I gotta look into that.

    But in a way it only makes my point even more, that AA is alright, depending on who’s benefitting from it. Clearly, the idea that Black folks benefitting from it, is something that really drives *some* White guys over the edge.

    Good looking out…

    O

    Like


  401. on March 10, 2009 at 11:51 pm Gunslingergregi

    “Obsidian
    Of course, it remains to be seen as to whether White guys will be cool with that. Something tells me no, but they’ll have a very hard time trying to make the case for their inclusion when clearly they can’t cut it. ”

    So you see what I am talking about with Obsidian I called his white hating ass early on. Why because I know black people. Then you have white people who do not know black people talking about yea I agree your one point here dude and I will ignore all the bullshit you spew. Pretty sure that is how obsid gets where he does in all social settings. He probably also calls white woman who won’t sleep with him racist to try to get that aa edge as well.

    Like


  402. aw, thanks, Thursday.

    But Clio retired? Damn.

    Like


  403. Blacks were thought to be much more immediate, much more into the moment itself, much less locked in their anxious heads. A lot of this may have been projection and sentimentality.

    No, Michael, your observation seems dead on accurate to me. BTW being more immediate, more into the moment, is what makes you attractive to girls, and is undoubtedly why black men are more likely to be naturals.

    Like


  404. @ Comment_Chloe

    “On the side, I now have more understanding about your need to issue extreme threats to your boyfriend about hitting you. A white woman would be a show-boating little b!tch for making such a threat to her white boyfriend… but you probably need to draw that line.”
    That’s not true. Neither my boyfriend or I have any familial relationships with domestic violence, which supposedly makes it more likely. However, I didn’t know that at the time, since we’d just met, really.

    I said it because I think that every woman should, at some point before marriage, clarify her positions on certain things, like cheating and domestic violence. That way, there’s no confusion later on, once you’re legally yoked and have kids. It’s possible that being black informed my opinion to a certain degree, like, I don’t think that only ‘those’ kinds of men hit women, but I would have said it even if I were dating a white guy. I’m upfront that way.

    “Then he realizes she’s black, and is like, Ok, you needed to do that.

    Sadly, that last paragraph is completely true and probably the most racist thing I have said all night.”
    The problem with your theory is that both you and Welmer are basing your opinions on life experiences or anecdotal evidence. In my own experience, hispanic men are the ones to look out for when it comes to spousal abuse, but I don’t run around the internet making assumptions about people, because I could very well be wrong. Just keep that in mind.

    Overall, I appreciate your logic, the fact that you noticed that people were more worked up than necessary, and then looked for a reason, but I think you’re wrong. I’d venture to say, the reason the discussion got so heated was that, wait for it, we have a black president, and some white men are feeling more than a little touchy right now. So, the same way some right-wing types pick on Michelle instead of Barack, because her husband’s approval ratings are so high, some white PUA’s would rather pick on black women, because black men are so popular in the sexual market.

    Like


  405. Michael Blowhard

    Does anyone know what’s become of Hope?

    Yeah, her USMC husband caught her posting on this blog and laid down the law.

    Like


  406. on March 11, 2009 at 12:09 am Gunslingergregi

    As for the case about blacks somehow being stronger, better, whatever than whites. I don’t see this as so. I was never beat down by a gang for no reason. There would have been individual repurcussions for that for those responsible. Maybe they sensed that. When we played goal line football no pads or when we played basketball and people came away with bloody noses from my elboes. I guess the only way to get respect. When you can pick someone up over your head and could throw them on the concrete it kind of makes people think. When I asked for it by wearing red and blue bandanas then yea I took a beatdown. When one was brought before me for revenge he didn’t have shit to say by himself about a thing even though it would have just been me and him toe to toe man to man. He did not feel a need to say a dam thing at that time. I did not feel the need for revenge since he acted like a little bitch as I had basically asked for the beatdown/killed. What bothers me is that they would gang up on the weak no problem. Whites don’t need to physically beat down the weak from what I have seen. Or if they do they have no problem doing it one on one or group on group but not group on one.

    Like


  407. on March 11, 2009 at 12:17 am Comment_Whatever

    Obsidian crossed the line:

    Again GS, take it up w/your SWPL brothers & sisters. That’s who your real enemy is, and this is true accross the spectrum. But of course, your ilk punks out on actually confronting them, just like y’all tend to punk out on the Affirmative Action piece; you won’t confront White women, and you won’t confront those blueblood legacy admit types either. No wonder you have such a hard time scoring gals. Very few like to entertain getting it on w/a Man w/very little backbone.

    Yeah, those white people on this board who think you hate them are clearly wildly hallucinating.

    I don’t know if you hate them, or are just mad, but yeah, I’m kinda seeing their point. If I had to say right now, then I’d say you hate them.

    I think we should all stop commenting now. I am. Bye.

    Like


  408. @ Gunslingergregi

    First of all, how old are you? Are you still living in this neighborhood where you have to see these people everyday? Because the trauma sounds very immediate in your mind, like it happened yesterday. If it didn’t, get over it. We all have our shit, and we manage.

    Two, “Whites don’t need to physically beat down the weak from what I have seen. Or if they do they have no problem doing it one on one or group on group but not group on one.” What a joke! Where have you been for the last 500 years? White people brought entire armies across the sea and slaughtered the people who were here, one by one. Millions of them.

    This kind of whiny, revisionist bullshit is why we have an entire generation of Americans who don’t remember what it was like before AA, and therefore, don’t remember why it’s needed.

    Like


  409. Why do you feel the need to distinguish yourself so strongly from other black people?

    It buys some degree of white (and parental) acceptance. It’s kinda how I was raised.

    Plus, the kids at school made fun of me for doing my homework and no disobeying the teacher, so I ended up doing stuff with white kids and embracing the label, and I had some fun meeting others like myself.

    Like


  410. @ Comment_Whatever
    “Yeah, those white people on this board who think you hate them are clearly wildly hallucinating.”

    Obsidian made some very salient points in that bit you quoted. Instead of ruminating on his mental state, you might want to consider them.

    1) SWPL-types are your enemy. They’re your competition when it comes to white people.

    2) The guys here bitch and moan about AA, but get real quiet when someone mentions that it benefits white women and legacies, too.

    3) You’re punks for not handling your own business and focusing your attention on black people.

    The last is phrased a bit strong, but I think you get it. Ob isn’t saying he hates white people; he’s calling you on these contradictions. Address them or don’t, but don’t lie about his motivations.

    Like


  411. Chloe — I’m no researcher myself, but you may enjoy a wrestle with Thomas Sowell, a black economist who has made the case that AA has been bad for blacks, and that blacks were actually advancing faster before AA than they have been since.

    Wikipedia on Sowell

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sowell

    An interview with Sowell

    http://www.salon.com/books/int/1999/11/10/sowell/

    Like


  412. *It’s kinda how I was raised.

    I probably should have said that my parents were immigrants and not fond of the hip-hop culture that was developing at the time, and they saw it as conflicting with how they wanted their children to grow up. So, my younger brother and I ended up acting like “white” kids who didn’t listen to any rap, and no friends in our neighbourhood especially since the only kids in our age group were visitors to the family court system, and we went to Catholic school in another neighbourhood.

    Like


  413. Yeah, her USMC husband caught her posting on this blog and laid down the law.

    That wasn’t what happened. Her husband always knew she posted here. What happened was there was one over the top angry comment too much for her and she declared she was done with this place and she never came back. It was some conversation thread with PatrickH. Can’t remember specific details of what set her off though.

    Like


  414. David Alexander

    “Why do you feel the need to distinguish yourself so strongly from other black people?”

    It buys some degree of white (and parental) acceptance. It’s kinda how I was raised.

    You actually care about white acceptance? Strange.

    You should spend some time in a white frontier town. Go to Alaska or northern Idaho or some place like that. Then get back to us.

    Trust me, nobody will kill or lynch you. But you might get a lot of strange looks for a few months — until the word gets around at least.

    It would be a DA survivor episode. Very funny, but ironically you’d probably end up with higher relative status there than you have now. Just don’t be surprised when you see how very, very different white folks are out in those parts. They’re bigger, stronger, and dumber than what you’re used to. And the young women are surprisingly good-looking. For the most part, they still behave somewhat decently (just don’t drink with them).

    Like


  415. Thursday:Is anyone else very happy to welcome omw here? Now that Hope and Clio have retired from this blog, the place has been much lacking for intelligent female commenters.

    I would definitely like to welcome OMW too.

    Michael Blowhard:

    I miss Hello too.

    Yes, she was another very good female commenter.

    Like


  416. @ Michael Blowhard

    I’ll look into it. Thanks.

    @ DA

    I gathered that you were probably generation 1.5, from the Caribbean. I could tell by how you sound. I know all the pressures that can keep you from ‘being black,’ but now, as an adult, you always have the chance to reconsider. It’s kinda obvious that black America is going to be divided into three groups, those, like you, who strive to be anything but ‘black’, black professionals, and the underclass. I could never abide the first group because they seem so self-hating, which seems to be the rut in which you find yourself.

    Like


  417. T. AKA Ricky Raw

    Yeah, her USMC husband caught her posting on this blog and laid down the law.

    That wasn’t what happened. Her husband always knew she posted here. What happened was there was one over the top angry comment too much for her and she declared she was done with this place and she never came back. It was some conversation thread with PatrickH. Can’t remember specific details of what set her off though.

    Yeah, it was a tongue-in-cheek response. Hope was alright. I can’t blame girls for fleeing this blog — it can be brutal toward women. Must be disconcerting for them considering how things have been going for the last few decades.

    Like


  418. Thursday:

    Is anyone else very happy to welcome omw here? Now that Hope and Clio have retired from this blog, the place has been much lacking for intelligent female commenters.

    I would definitely like to welcome OMW too.

    Michael Blowhard:

    I miss Hello too.

    Yes, she was another very interesting female commenter.

    (BTW, this blog definitely needs a preview for comments.)

    Like


  419. on March 11, 2009 at 1:01 am Gunslingergregi

    “Obsidian
    Again GS, take it up w/your SWPL brothers & sisters. That’s who your real enemy is, and this is true accross the spectrum. But of course, your ilk punks out on actually confronting them, just like y’all tend to punk out on the Affirmative Action piece; you won’t confront White women, and you won’t confront those blueblood legacy admit types either. No wonder you have such a hard time scoring gals. Very few like to entertain getting it on w/a Man w/very little backbone.”

    Again what we have here is hate of the white people. then Chloe in solidarity of hate oppologises.

    “Chloe
    @ Comment_Whatever
    “Yeah, those white people on this board who think you hate them are clearly wildly hallucinating.”

    Obsidian made some very salient points in that bit you quoted. Instead of ruminating on his mental state, you might want to consider them.

    1) SWPL-types are your enemy. They’re your competition when it comes to white people.

    2) The guys here bitch and moan about AA, but get real quiet when someone mentions that it benefits white women and legacies, too.

    3) You’re punks for not handling your own business and focusing your attention on black people.

    The last is phrased a bit strong, but I think you get it. Ob isn’t saying he hates white people; he’s calling you on these contradictions. Address them or don’t, but don’t lie about his motivations.”

    Really an amazing thing to keep seeing people stick up for Obsidians hate of white people and Obsidian really loving the hate of white woman. Then to see the black woman with the same hate. Very revealing. Then of course the white people who can overlook his hate of white people is just expected.

    When where guys actually bitching and moaning about anything about aa on this thread. Obsidian brought it up.

    Like


  420. Gunslingergregi,

    I’ve enjoyed talking with you, but if you insist on lying, I can’t be bothered.

    Like


  421. You should spend some time in a white frontier town. Go to Alaska or northern Idaho or some place like that. Then get back to us.

    That’s admittedly a problem. I’m freaked out by the idea of ever visiting such places, and the problem is that my hobbies involve driving to such rural areas to explore trains or roads or do some landscape photography. Seeing some black people is comforting since it gives the impression that the town is “safe”, and the presence of liberals means that there *should* be somebody to complain to if I happen to find a racist. The last thing that I want is dirty looks or some guy spitting in my burger because I chose to drive through his all-white enclave.

    Of course, this is interesting since my parents are immigrants and took a leap of faith to move here and do so before the Haitian community became large enough to support itself.

    And the young women are surprisingly good-looking.

    Shudder.

    Admittedly, why would I want a rural white girl? No nails, poor fashion sense, parents who’d freak out about me, desire to stay at home with kids…

    you always have the chance to reconsider

    Eh, I’m quite happy with being an Oreo/self-hater.🙂

    Like


  422. “You should spend some time in a white frontier town. Go to Alaska or northern Idaho or some place like that. Then get back to us.”

    Perhaps DA and Bristol Palin can begin a romance.

    As to young men and women being hostile towards each other, I believe it, and I see it. I sense a latent hatred towards straight white males from white females, and (hopefully) that hatred is being returned. There has been a battle of the sexes for about 40 years. However, the battle has been like an opening March Madness game, with the feminists playing UNC and the men playing Southwest Idaho State. Basically the men have been obliterated, when they’ve bothered to fight at all. Straight white males are now the one group allowed to be disrespected, in our schools, our government, and our families. And white males basically sit and take it, because American white males are pussies. They ran this country 40 years ago, and now they are a laughingstock.

    I’m hoping that at SOME point, white men will wake up and DO SOMETHING about their situation, whether legally or “extra”legally. In my research before attending law school, I came upon group after group of female-dominated legal organizations. These disgusting feminist organizations have as their purpose to push and pressure for more and more PC drivel, increasing women’s “rights” at the EXPENSE of men. Just think about the divorce laws, the education disparity, the domestic violence laws, and you see how successful the feminists have been in marginalizing us. I have to read books every day where the default pronoun is “she” or “her”. And most of these books were written by men!

    People should lay off Obsidian though I think he’s off on the AA thing. White women don’t really get AA for college anymore, because their qualifications are generally high. But as for the Women’s Studies departments, not to mention all the other gay/lesbian/feminist bureaucracy shit, eradicate it as quickly as possible. Say what you want about black people, at least they have their talents and niche in our society. Feminists and queer activists are completely worthless and aggressive in infecting us further.

    White men – think about how many people, organizations are present to advocate for white women’s interests. Is there any doubt that young white women are the most spoiled, selfish, amoral people in our society? I don’t think so. Minority women are almost always nicer. White women are coddled way too much; if white men are smart enough, they will start treating all decently attractive white women like shit to keep them grounded. But of course white men were dumb enough to end up here, so I won’t hold my breath.

    Like


  423. on March 11, 2009 at 1:30 am Gunslingergregi

    Chloe,
    “Gunslingergregi,

    I’ve enjoyed talking with you, but if you insist on lying, I can’t be bothered.”

    I used your own words are you saying you were lying?

    “some white PUA’s would rather pick on black women, because black men are so popular in the sexual market.”

    This is just ludicrus. Your man Obsid could not man up. He can only hide behind his blackness hopefully saving him from answering hard questions. He answered none except that he hates white people. This is not a man. This what would normally be referred to as a pussy in any mans world.

    Like


  424. David Alexander

    That’s admittedly a problem. I’m freaked out by the idea of ever visiting such places, and the problem is that my hobbies involve driving to such rural areas to explore trains or roads or do some landscape photography. Seeing some black people is comforting since it gives the impression that the town is “safe”, and the presence of liberals means that there *should* be somebody to complain to if I happen to find a racist. The last thing that I want is dirty looks or some guy spitting in my burger because I chose to drive through his all-white enclave.

    You like rails? The old mining towns of the west are full of abandoned rails and equipment. It’s fascinating. When I was a kid I played in rusted out steam engines and sluices up in the hills. Lots of fun.

    And as for the racists, give me a break. The most hardcore white racists you will find in the West are in trashy suburbs in southern California. They are far more dangerous than hicks. If you stay in a small town for a while, everyone will get to know you within a few weeks, and your burgers will not be spit in any more than anyone else’s.

    Dirty looks? Come on. Don’t be a pussy. I get dirty looks in towns where nobody knows me. You just talk to the people and they get friendly very quickly.

    Of course, this is interesting since my parents are immigrants and took a leap of faith to move here and do so before the Haitian community became large enough to support itself.

    Seriously, would a black guy like you have more to fear in a white mountain town than a white guy like me in Haiti? I don’t think so…

    Admittedly, why would I want a rural white girl? No nails, poor fashion sense, parents who’d freak out about me, desire to stay at home with kids…

    You aren’t gay, are you? The last thing I give a damn about is a girl’s nails and fashion sense. I’d take a country girl in a worn flannel and tank top with holes in her jeans without a second thought.

    You’ve got to see the way some of those girls are built! I went to DC a couple times, and I was not at all impressed. You see better-looking girls working the cash register out there in empty places than you see strutting around in heels and tight dresses in big cities. And they don’t even have an attitude! It’s like heaven on earth…

    Like


  425. Perhaps DA and Bristol Palin can begin a romance.

    I gotta admit, she’s kinda attractive, and she’d be “perfect” with some nails, but then she’s a likely Republican…

    Like


  426. Gunslingergregi,

    “some white PUA’s would rather pick on black women, because black men are so popular in the sexual market.”

    How is this evidence of hate? It’s a freaking theory. If you disagree, say why. To claim I hate white people is a cop-out.

    “This what would normally be referred to as a pussy in any mans world.”
    No, a pussy is a guy who bitches, a, about another guy, b, to a girl.

    Like


  427. on March 11, 2009 at 1:53 am Gunslingergregi

    Yea Jack don’t you think the western world crashing stock market thing is a little too much of a put on. Spending 950 billion over 10 years for what more policies that restrict people. Do you really think we will be the ones to eventually make it. This is revenge of the nerds in real time. The superintelligent have the hate too and they hate us all who are not superintelligent. Come on did the companies really have that many foreclosures to force them out of business. What about forcing city and bank of america to take on countrywide and meryll lynch and then acting like it is some big surprize that they lost money last quarter. Then having congressmen stand up and say let the big banks fail. This is a set up by the media/whoever has the hate. There is no way the us could actually be put in a position where its people would starve unless it was intentionally done by its own leaders. Growing food and making water is just not that freaking hard to do. A third world country did it in 20 years went from no food basically to enough to feed its people. You don’t think the us could supply power and food for all its people easily. Irregardless of some kind of credit freeze or whatever. No problem supplying basic neseccities for all us citizens. If it doesn’t it was planned. And Obama is in office so if the shit really hits fan. Well I may actually at that point feel bad for black people.

    Like


  428. Kthulah:

    “No, you’re stupid because you don’t even know what sparked off this episode and turned the warpig cries in my direction, and you’re saying that because I do know, I think the whole blog revolves around me.”

    Cite for me, like I did for you, at what point this discussion was sparked because of your rape story. I’m not disclaiming your story, forgive me if you thought I doubted it. My not knowing about it is further evidence that it is not the cause of this current discussion.

    This discussion was started b/c of the same ol’ routine. Lurker said black women who are in mainstream have white woman features. Your story had nothing to do with it.

    I love Michael Blowhard’s blog and all, and I think his comments are on point, but his perception of you being clear-headed in this instance is way off. I merely pointed out that your story didn’t spark this debate. I provided time-stamped proof. Prove me wrong and I’ll admit as much.

    And with all due respect, warpig cries are hurled in your direction as often as I hurl dueces at my toilet bowl, which is to say, constantly.

    Like


  429. on March 11, 2009 at 1:58 am Gunslingergregi

    Because you thought you needed to defend him by alligning yourself with him. And he allows black woman and white men to defend him and will not answer any questions himself and acts like a pussy hiding behind his blackness like a shield.

    Like


  430. on March 11, 2009 at 2:01 am Gunslingergregi

    The black shield don’t fucking work against a white man who grew up with blacks.

    Like


  431. You like rails?

    I’m actually more into passenger stuff more than freight roads, but the West offers so many unique opportunities for rail photography due to the varied landscapes. The only downside is that there’s very little passenger stuff, and everything is diesel hauled. In contrast, the Northeast has a large fleet of electric passenger service and light rail and metro systems to keep me occupied. Hence why railfans like myself aim for Europe to visit their extensive networks.

    And as for the racists, give me a break.

    Media reinforced stereotypes are hard to fight off in some cases, and there’s always that fear that one could stumble upon the local racist sheriff looking for a scapegoat for any incident in town.

    I must also add that in the case of rural Europe, one could stumble upon closeted neo-Nazi groups.

    Dirty looks?

    One may become used to them, but I don’t like getting them and it’s rather isolating and unwelcoming at times. I still get them as I drive around my current neighbourhood.

    Seriously, would a black guy like you have more to fear in a white mountain town than a white guy like me in Haiti?

    It depends. Some would be curious and would like to meet you, while others would have contempt and lump you in racists, and feel that you’re a rich evil oppressor who is worth robbing for money. I would hope that the former group would represent the vast majority of Haitians.

    You aren’t gay, are you? The last thing I give a damn about is a girl’s nails and fashion sense.

    You must be new here. I’ve detailed my fetish for women in acrylic nails and high heels. While it may not be the full porn star look that I’ve found attractive, women’s hands with nails tend to look better, even if it’s painted natural nails. Somehow, just seeing them induces sexual desire, and it’s a sign that the woman wants sex. It’s the same thing with heels for me as well. So, a 6 with nails and heels could easily beat out a 7 with neither…

    As for fashion sense, not all of fashion is inherently sexual, a fashionable girl is generally more fashionable than her tomboyish rural counterpart in bland jeans and flannel.

    Like


  432. Chuck failed to understand the meaning of going to fuck himself and posted, “Cite for me, like I did for you, at what point this discussion was sparked because of your rape story. I’m not disclaiming your story, forgive me if you thought I doubted it. My not knowing about it is further evidence that it is not the cause of this current discussion. ”

    The fact that you’re calling it a rape story, and don’t know about it is only evidence that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about and need to learn to stay out of grown folks’ conversation.

    I really hate repeating myself.

    Like


  433. Gunslinger, the Black people you apparently grew up with were not representative of all Black people. In the U.S. they’re only about 12% of the population, and outside the U.S. especially in some places in Africa, if you grew up around the worst, you’d have more trauma to worry about than seeing a White woman go through a train.

    …and really, if you’ve never seen an 8 year old White kid sniffing glue, you really probably haven’t seen enough of “your own” people to make a judgement about how much better “you” are than “us”.

    Butch up. The whole world isn’t the U.S. and your obsession isn’t our emergency.

    Like


  434. OK Kthulah,
    continue avoiding my point. show me where this whole discussion b/w Obsidian and others was spurred by your rape. (Calling it a rape story doesn’t disqualify it from truth, it only means that most people here don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You’re off in Kthulah-land again, and the fact that we aren’t all half-troll, half-retard disallows our admittance. If you’d be so kind to obtain day passes or free tickets to your Troll village, that would be very kind of you. Until then, don’t try to impart your troll ways and your troll stories onto the rest of us folks.)

    This discussion, in case you are still having trouble understanding, has nothing to do with you rape. It has to do with lurker popping off again about black women and Obsidian calling him out on it. As I said, this blog doesn’t revolve around you. Now leave, your bridge is calling.

    Like


  435. Chuck continues to make himself look even more like a moron by posting, “show me where this whole discussion b/w Obsidian and others was spurred by your rape. ”

    Okay okay. I believe you really are retarded.

    Happy?

    Like


  436. on March 11, 2009 at 2:15 am Gunslingergregi

    Yea it has been a good talking with you and again realizing that I have more than one reason to move out of the country🙂

    Like


  437. Michael Blowhard:

    I wonder if it has to do with the fact that a lot of commenters here seem to be geeks. In my experience, geeks have always been super-uneasy with flirtation, romance, etc. They want it to be over, and to cut directly from singlehood to a no-trouble wife, a house, and fun kids. They want to work hard, and have everything else just be fine. Above all, they want no part of the idea of the pursuit as a fun thing in and of itself, let alone of (for guys) women being the ultimate mystery, art, and sport. They find all that stuff beyond-excruciating.

    Well, yes, but these “geeks” on whom you heap scorn have always been, and will always be the majority of humanity. Despite the messages of the modern culture, the pursuit of romance and sex as fun, art, and sport is indeed unnatural and impossible for most people. Only a minority of women are attractive enough that chasing them is fun, and an even smaller minority of men have the natural talent and inclination to be successful players. For others, a prudish society with effectively enforced monogamy is indeed a much better deal than sexual laissez-faire — and that’s not even considering all the other social and demographic issues related to family stability. Plus, even though the usual suspects will protest to high heaven, treating romance and sex as “art and sport” often does have irreversible consequences for people’s ability to form lasting relationships — even men’s, let alone women’s.

    So, yes, there are people who naturally get excellent opportunities for practicing sex as adventure, art, and sport, and for some of them, it’s a natural and reasonable course of action — just like there are outliers in every other area of human life. However, the idea that this is something that everyone should expect in life, and that people incapable of it should be derided or viewed as evil and/or pathological is one of the worst popular delusions of the modern age. This “cold hostility” that surprises you is an inevitable consequence that follows when such an attitude becomes the prevalent social norm, as has happened in the West after the sexual revolution. People get pretty angry when faced with a system that will not only assign them roles of scorned losers, but also, at the same time, stubbornly insist, contrary to all logic, that everyone must find happiness and losers can’t even exist unless they’re evil, mentally sick, or deluded.

    Like


  438. on March 11, 2009 at 2:23 am Gunslingergregi

    I just want to be able to save myself at this point and my future kids. Try to maybe give some guys a headsup on marriage and maybe on black guys who act all friendly while abusing white woman.

    Like


  439. Okay, Chuck, I’m going to explain this in very simple language. I’ll stick to sixth grade level and below because I understand that this is the U.S. average, and sheeple never do anything above average.

    I did not claim to have been raped.

    I did not claim to have almost been raped.

    I was in a situation last Friday, for which I was very thankful to have male friends around.

    Males have penises.

    Females have vaginas.

    I am very very female.

    For some reason, five penises were pointing in my direction, even though there were two very pretty, young girls sitting near me.

    Because I am older, I suppose those five boys thought I was an easier target. They mostly ignored the younger girls.

    I think this is very bad.

    The point I was making to respond to Sara in her younger guy situation, was that sometimes guys are really attracted. Sometimes though, they just wish you were an easy target hard enough, that they make it reality in their minds.

    The mind is another way of saying the brain.

    You know…that organ people who aren’t stupid like you, use to think with.

    To this, lurker responded with a tyrade.

    I got very annoyed.

    The fires of the usual debate were kindles anew, and all kinds of crap was dredged up for a replay, that was directed at me, but had fuck all to do with what I posted, or even who I am.

    I got even more annoyed.

    You getting the idea?

    You see, fucktard, I don’t think that I am the single or sole cause of this ongoing racial dick sizing. It’s just annoying that a post about something basically unrelated, could get that ball rolling again.

    It would seem that some people are just waiting for any chance, no matter how far fetched, to start spewing vitriol in my direction.

    It’s annoying because well…this is the reason I don’t normally hang out or post too much at forums with too many girls.

    Girls also act like bitches and feel challenged about stuff that makes no sense.

    If I wanted to be around a bunch of pussy, I would be at a girl site.

    Got it?

    Like


  440. Sorry Kthulah,

    I had to get my warpig-speak decoder ring out of the cereal box to translate your comment…i’m back though…

    forgive me for interpreting these quotes as evidence of your rape:

    “What does what is going on in the Congo have to do with the multiple Russian guys who were trying to get into my pants last Friday?
    “No Chuck, this time it happened because I mentioned last Friday I was in fear for my chastity because some guys decided I was an easier target than my far more conventionally attractive friends.”

    Regardless of the fact that you thought some Russians wanted to dick you down, your comment did not set lurker off. He was in full throttle before you ever stepped out of your cave for the evening onto this board.

    Now, one question to you. At what point did lurker address your Russian story on this board, today? Show me the time stamp. It seems to me, looking through lurker’s comments, that he was much more concerned with talking to obsidian than he was to you.

    Like


  441. Gunslinger…and every White woman is a fragile little innocent angel deserving the protection of White men.

    …even Cigstache. 😉

    Like


  442. Well, Chuck, we know what things seem like to you isn’t usually how they are.

    Like


  443. on March 11, 2009 at 2:46 am Gunslingergregi

    Must have missed the whole rape thing that wasn’t a rape too. Pretty much only directing my stuff to the black supremacist Obsidian to get him to come out the closet and get some poison off my soul which he did so win win .

    Like


  444. on March 11, 2009 at 2:49 am Gunslingergregi

    Added bonus he stopped fucking with DA.

    Like


  445. Chuck says, “I had to get my warpig-speak decoder ring out of the cereal box to translate your comment.”

    Ah, so now you’re not just stupid. You’re a stupid bitch.

    Nice. I know how to deal with those…much easier than an assertive male.

    You will address me with respect, or you won’t exist in my universe.

    Like


  446. Oh, and the rest of you who insist on my inferiority, call me on it anytime you feel you’re being treated unfairly. We wouldn’t want anyone to feel oppressed around here.🙂

    Troll indeed. If I am, your mother’s a troll.

    Like


  447. on March 11, 2009 at 3:00 am Gunslingergregi

    Naa it was to protect white gullible people from a black coniving weakling as long as they know where he is really coming from now.

    Oh you thought because white people where harping about white woman to get some pain out and try to figure out the world as they know it. You thought it was ok to harp on them too with your picture up for all to see. But then were surprized that they people harped on omg a black woman. You thought your blackshield would protect you too and thought you had a license to say what the fuck you wanted about white people without a negative reaction.

    Like


  448. on March 11, 2009 at 3:02 am Gunslingergregi

    Yes if I saw cigstash being raped by a black man I would defend her even if it cost me my life.

    Like


  449. on March 11, 2009 at 3:04 am Gunslingergregi

    But I am leaving so I never have to see that shit. Getting it?

    Like


  450. a prudish society with effectively enforced monogamy is indeed a much better deal than sexual laissez-faire

    The problem with that system is that under both systems, I still don’t have easy and immediate access to great sex with hot women. Otherwise, at least under the current system, I can admit to my fetishes, and possibly get a decent looking girl who might cater to it, or find great porn. Under the old system, I didn’t even get my fetishes filled, and there was no porn outlet.

    Like


  451. Gunslinger, I’d defend any woman I saw being raped by any man….or any man I saw being raped. Their color wouldn’t matter to me. If I see a physically weaker person being picked on by a stronger person, I step in. It’s just how I am, and I’m a girl…a girl gifted with some strength and combat training, but still…

    I don’t get dividing people by color maybe because I’ve seen so much in my life that proves class matters more…and family/friends even more than that. Ethnicity matters when it becomes a part of class…and sometimes classes become ethnicities, so one has to look out for one’s own in that regard.

    If you still view your world as Black and White, you’ve got a rude awakening coming when you are shown that the only brothers you have are by your mother’s or loyalty drawn blood. In this world, selfish people rule, and if you have something someone else wants, they’re not going to cut you any slack for being White. At best, they’ll just spit twice instead of once before they fuck you because of the awareness of the delicacies of culture.

    Like


  452. on March 11, 2009 at 3:16 am Gunslingergregi

    I don’t think I would have to stop a woman from getting raped by a white man. That shit only happens in movies. But if by some miracle that was happening I would also stop that.

    You stepped into a blog you saw as degrading white woman and tried to get on bandwaggon with no blood in the game as you say.

    Like


  453. Here comes obsidian for the last time, proving his head is up his ass permanently:

    “And finally we come to Mr. Lurker. First off, Africa has long been a destination spot for White Men who wanted to do all the freaky stuff they couldn’t bring themselves to do with their wives.”

    —Men will take what they can get. Thanks for proving my point. Black women were easy targets, white women were not.

    “Evidence can be seen throughout the interior of Africa, and especially on its coastal states, like Kenya, Somalia, Ethiopia, Ghana, Nigeria, and so forth. There are many accounts of White guys having their way with Black Women during the colonial period, and in some cases, even after.”

    —When white men had to work in Africa during the colonial/post-colonial periods. But they weren’t travelling there en mass to screw a bunch of hottentots on a vacations. When the only pussy around is a 5, she starts looking like a 7-8.

    QED.

    “Now let’s address your “downlow” comments.”

    —Please do.

    “Yes, in the USA, this is problem insofar as Black Women are concerned. Granted. But when it comes to Africa, and even in the USA, that’s only one part of the story. The other part of the story is that both Black Men and Black Women tend to have more MLTRs than Whites, which introduces more sexual partners, which of course, heightens the chances of STDs being transmitted. So, this facet plays as much if not moreso than the DownLow, although the latter *is* a factor.”

    —lol. WRONG.

    A straight male who has relationships with women and does not have cuts on his penis has a 0% chance of contracting AIDS. Despite what the gay lobby would have you believe, 71% of new HIV cases are from gay men; the other 29% is divided between needle drug users, blood transfusions, and, of course, women sleeping with in-the-closet guys.

    Black guys are by far the most in-the-closet group and THAT is solely driving the HIV rate in the black women of the US.

    “Going back to sexual tourist spots, perhaps you’ve heard of Jamaica? Bahamas? Bermuda? These and other spots in the Carribean have long been known to be areas where White Women can go and get their fill-literally-of Black Wood on the quiet.”

    —Yep, like I said, those 5 women do not counteract the thousands of men going to Asia for poontang.

    You mistake a few old flabby women who can’t get laid without paying for it for a significant number. They aren’t; they’re a small anomaly. Like scat porn.

    “It’s a very well known fact that a Woman on vacation is much more likely and willing to have some hot flings. ”

    —Wow. Next, you’re going to tell me girls on spring break drink. Non Sequitory, dumbass.

    “The only difference btw them and the White guys who like boys in Thailand etc, is that, as usual, the Women are better at keeping their business from getting out in the street.”

    —lol. Oh yeah, there’s thousands of these ugly sluts going off for an island boy, just we don’t know about it. Or….there are just a few. Which the numbers bear out. PWNED.

    “And again, most White guys here, said they would hit it when it came to Toccara. ”

    —again, moron, they said the fat load could blow them, not do them. You are wrong.

    “What I have a problem is with you and your ilk trying to make some kind of moral or value judgment based on your personal biases. ”

    —the biases of non-black men everywhere, you mean.

    “Not only is that wrong, but so are your constant and vicious attacks on Nicole, which are wholly beside the point and which brings nothing new in terms of understanding. ”

    –Stop defending the warpig. She’s an illogical fat harpy.

    “With such actions, no wonder you and your ilk are having a tough time getting laid. Especially by any Sistas. ”

    —No one wants a sista.

    Having lived in heavily black areas, I know you’re full of shit, Obsidian. I used to live over a local black club, which let out every Saturday around 4am. When I was home, I would hang outside my stoop to watch the fights occur at closing time.

    Never have I been more blatantly hit on by women than when I went out there. it was hilarious. The black women saw me and suddenly found reasons to sit on my stoop, talk to me, offer me weed, cigarettes, etc. It was like clockwork; every time, at least 2 would stop and talk to me, despite being bleary eyed, tired, and all sorts of incapacitated.

    Those sistas sure didn’t have any problem with my not being “man” enough for them; in fact, they were ignoring the black guys desperately clawing at them for me. A few black guys tried to shout me down, but that was funny too; nothing like trying to pretend your tough when you’re acting like a beta desperate for poontang you couldn’t get at the club.

    But they were all , a la warpig: fat, loud, rude, stupid, bad hair, extensions, and cheesy outfits. More than few mentioned their children at home, as if playing baby daddy would somehow attract me, or that their abandoning their kids for a night alone at home was somehow a mating call. And the few whiggers I saw leaving the club had to beat them off with a stick.

    I was dating around at the time, and I would tell my dates this story, and they would laugh. They absolutely did not feel threatened IN THE LEAST. They got more upset when I had gone out to another bar or club without them, because non-black women were the threat.

    Obsidian, you can continue to try to argue that a few outlier sluts, too ugly for normal men, jetting off to Jamaica somehow counteract the significant percentage of men doing the Asia tour. You can try to say that because men will screw whatever is available to be screwed, that somehow proves men prefer black women. Heck, you can pretend sistas are beating off “unmanly” white men with a stick.

    But its laughable, and you’re dead wrong, and you know it. Porn is the greatest truth teller of male desire; and black women are not being fucked by non-black men in porn. It is simply a fact: black women are not sexual objects to 95% of non-black men.

    Like


  454. on March 11, 2009 at 3:27 am Gunslingergregi

    If 13 percent of your business was going to end up putting the other 87 percent out of business and cause you to have nothing what would you do.

    Like


  455. Gunslinger, I’ve been here since before the slut tells thing, and had a nice and bitter argument with Roissy about his having a woman being Black as an indicator of sluttiness.

    I wasn’t expecting a “free pass”, and I’m not here to degrade or join in degradation of White women in particular. I don’t even believe that it is possible to actually degrade a person…everyone is in their place. Nobody puts another in their place.

    Even if you kill someone that doesn’t matter in the gran scheme of things because the grave is the final destination for us all anyway.

    So as long as I live, I make my own way. I’m here to exchange ideas on a subject that concerns me, now that I’m back in the “market” in a way, and that I write about from time to time. I learn from others’ perspectives, and lend my own from time to time as well.

    I don’t even really ask for respect. I demand it as a condition for my dealing with someone as more than an occasional annoyance…and not too deep of one at that.

    So I’m human looooooong before we get to ethnic identity. Mine is mixed African and Catawba American. I’m not sure where my African ancestors are from exactly, but from the geneology, we’re making an educated guess at Togo. I know where my American ancestors are from though. This is probably one reason I’m only mildly boorish, but more rugged, and still a lady. There’s no conflict between strength and femininity for me.

    I’m here to represent myself, and perhaps women somewhat like me…not to degrade someone else.

    Like


  456. on March 11, 2009 at 3:31 am Gunslingergregi

    How bout that another white person who grew around black people interesting.

    Like


  457. Case in point said, “Stop defending the warpig. She’s an illogical fat harpy.”

    Irony… :: sigh ::

    You make this too easy.

    Like


  458. Gunslinger, the only Black people lurker grew up around were on MTV Bass. I don’t even think he’s grown.

    George Washington was White so Cigstache is by default more attractive to White men than Toccara.

    LOL!

    Like


  459. Moreover, your chances of contracting HIV is about the same in Moscow as it is in Congo, or Botswana or Uganda;

    Let’s see. According to CIA Word Factbook, HIV prevalences among the adult populations in the countries you mentioned are as follows:

    Russia (2001): 1.1%
    Congo, Democratic Republic of the (2003): 4.3%
    Congo, Republic of the (2003): 4.9%
    Botswana (2003): 37.3%
    Uganda (2003): 4.1%

    Unless there are reasons to believe that the prevalence of HIV is much higher in Moscow than elsewhere in Russia, it should be undeniable that in Central and Southern African states one has a much higher likelihood of contracting HIV than in Moscow. Particularly, that holds for Botswana where HIV prevalence is over an order of magnitude higher than in Russia.

    Like


  460. on March 11, 2009 at 5:53 am Wounded Animal

    So, Wounded, my good man, if you still are having trouble accepting historical facts, I suggest you take it up with somebody. I don’t know who, and really don’t care.

    All right. I’ll keep an eye out for all those white male-black female couples.

    Like


  461. DA:

    I’m actually more into passenger stuff more than freight roads, but the West offers so many unique opportunities for rail photography due to the varied landscapes. The only downside is that there’s very little passenger stuff, and everything is diesel hauled. In contrast, the Northeast has a large fleet of electric passenger service and light rail and metro systems to keep me occupied. Hence why railfans like myself aim for Europe to visit their extensive networks.

    I find large diesel engines more interesting than electric engines.

    How do you like the sound of this engine?

    Media reinforced stereotypes are hard to fight off in some cases, and there’s always that fear that one could stumble upon the local racist sheriff looking for a scapegoat for any incident in town.

    I must also add that in the case of rural Europe, one could stumble upon closeted neo-Nazi groups.

    I think you’re more likely to run into those in a godforsaken rustbelt smalltown or a bad area in a big city than in rural areas.

    Like


  462. That wasn’t what happened. Her husband always knew she posted here. What happened was there was one over the top angry comment too much for her and she declared she was done with this place and she never came back. It was some conversation thread with PatrickH. Can’t remember specific details of what set her off though.

    Hope left during a thread in which PatrickH stated that an PUAs aren’t alphas, just guys who relieve themselves into a woman’s cervix rather than their own hand. It wasn’t a thread in which she had felt particularly under attack; she just praised Pat’s deconstruction of Roissy-style alphas and said somethign to the effect of “well said; my work here is finished.”

    I agree that she’s one of the best female commenters. My only quibble with her, since I believe in a transcendent reality beyond the physical world, is her extreme philosophical materialism.

    Like


  463. “the only Black people lurker grew up around were on MTV Bass. I don’t even think he’s grown.”

    —lol. Denial just ain’t a river in Egypt.

    Markku:
    “Let’s see. According to CIA Word Factbook, HIV prevalences among the adult populations in the countries you mentioned are as follows:

    Russia (2001): 1.1%
    Congo, Democratic Republic of the (2003): 4.3%
    Congo, Republic of the (2003): 4.9%
    Botswana (2003): 37.3%
    Uganda (2003): 4.1%

    Unless there are reasons to believe that the prevalence of HIV is much higher in Moscow than elsewhere in Russia, it should be undeniable that in Central and Southern African states one has a much higher likelihood of contracting HIV than in Moscow. Particularly, that holds for Botswana where HIV prevalence is over an order of magnitude higher than in Russia.”

    —What would be interesting would be to see the percentages of straight women in these countries developing HIV. A sharp disparity between them would indicate the nations whose men are in the closet.

    Like


  464. Lurker, Markku,
    Interesting that you guys would be discussing this topic, as I’ve just got finished listening to the BBC’s World News Hour that airs on the local NPR radio station (WHYY 91FM). They were talking about the fact that Russia is thee number one consumer of heroin worldwide; moreover, they have no treatment centers, etc. That means there’ll be a lot of sharing of needles, hence transmission of HIV.

    Now, I won’t dispute the numbers Markku quoted, however, what I will dispute is Lurker’s contention that the transmission mode in Africa is due to the downlow. According to people who study this sort of thing for a living, this is false.

    As I said yesterday, it comes from the fact that African Men and Women both tend to have multiple longterm relationships running at the same time, unlike the Anglosphere, where people engage in serial monogamy.

    So, it would look like this:

    In Africa, Tony has three Women he’s sexually involved with: Tina, Tanya & Crystal. He’s having unprotected sex with all three (ie, he’s not using condoms).

    Now, each of *those* three Women, have a little something on the side of their own; they may not have as many “main” sexual partners as Tony, but just havng one Man each means that the potential for an STD getting in opens considerably.

    Now, in Europe/America, the deal goes down more like this:

    Tony first goes steady with Tina, & they breakup; after a time, he takes up w/Tanya, but they breakup eventually too. Finally Tony meets and woos Crystal, and they become a happy couple.

    Now, note that in this case, Tony isn’t dealing with these Women all at the same time; he’s doing them one at a time.

    This means that in America and Europe, the chances of STDs coming into the picture is much less reduced, than in the African example, mainly because there’s a limited number of sex partners to begin with.

    Now of course, we’re not taking into account things like the downlow, as Lurker mentioned, or, creepin on the part of any or all of the parties involved. Surely, STDs have a chance to be involved in such scenarios.

    Hope this explains things a bit.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  465. Obsidian:

    Now, I won’t dispute the numbers Markku quoted, however, what I will dispute is Lurker’s contention that the transmission mode in Africa is due to the downlow. According to people who study this sort of thing for a living, this is false.

    As I said yesterday, it comes from the fact that African Men and Women both tend to have multiple longterm relationships running at the same time, unlike the Anglosphere, where people engage in serial monogamy.

    That’s exactly what I have heard. I once read an article on the AIDS situation in Botswana. The issue was that while the message about condom use with strangers has got through, people tend to give up using condoms with their long-term partners. This is particularly dangerous when HIV prevalance is high and having multiple long-term partners is common. That’s because here is a three-week period shortly after contracting the virus when the concentration of HIV in the blood and the thus likelihood of transmitting the virus are high. After that, the immune system kicks in pushing the concentration down to a low level for many years.

    The only good thing about the epidemic being rampant in Botswana is that the place is in very good shape for a Sub Saharan African country. Botswana has substantial mineral wealth but the population is small and comprised of a single dominant ethnic group with small minorities of less than 10% of the population put together, which means there is less corruption than in places like Nigeria.

    Like


  466. I find large diesel engines more interesting than electric engines.

    I find electrics to be much better. Better designs, the sound of AC traction is nicer (whoowhoo!), better acceleration, and higher speeds. Plus, catenary is pretty.🙂

    How do you like the sound of this engine?

    Loud, noisy, and brutish. Sounds similar to some of the diesels here in the States…

    Like


  467. Notice how, as Chloe has pointed out, there is no real response to my points of contention w/*some* White Men:

    1. I asserted that the real enemy of Straight White Males, ain’t Black folk like me, but *other White folks*, more popularly known as the Stuff White People Like crowd.

    2. That when the topic of Affirmative Action comes up, it is only addressed in racial (read, BLACK) terms; when its pointed out that other groups have tremendously benefitted from AA, such as White Women, Sports & Legacy admits, the Sound of Silence is deafening.

    3. That, when examing the sexual history of the USA, one can only conclude that quite a few White Men found Black Women sexually attractive. Please note that we are not discussing longterm pairbonding, etc, et al. Purely in fucking terms, the evidence is irrefutable.

    *THIS JUST IN*

    NPR is reporting yet another school shootout, this time in Stuttgart, Germany; the shooter was, yup, you guessed it, WHITE.

    Annnnnd, we can add the fact that here in this country, in Alabama, another White guy goes Postal, shooting up his place of work before killing himself.

    Now…

    Can we have some pointed discussion, on the topics noted above?

    Hmm?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  468. Markku,
    Thanks for the feedback. Yea, a lot of people don’t understand, and/or accept, the fact that Africa is arguably thee most polyamorous place on Earth, and has been for centuries. It is deeply embedded into the many cultures there, even though both Islamic and European colonialization has mitigated against this in some places there to some extent.

    Now, I argue, that a big part of why HIV rates are so high in Black America, has at least something to do with the MLTR trends that are extant in Africa itself, although I do concede that the downlow piece plays a strong role as well.

    Of course, the problem in all this is that lots of people have agendas and interests, and fears as well. Science has NEVER been free of politics.

    It never will be.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  469. Obsidian, completely agree with you on point 1, though I think the case could be made that the SWPL crew are the enemies of black folks as well, since a lot of the pathologies that plague black America are derived from SWPL (liberal) policies implemented for the political gain of liberal white males.

    Also agree with you on point 2, though I am not sure I would call legacy admits “affirmative action” (it is another form of discrimination but does not derive from the AA laws and regulations in the same way that the discrimination that helps white women in sports does, at least AFAIK).

    Point 3 is incontrovertible.

    Happy now?

    Like


  470. Obsidian,

    2. Asserting that “sports” and “legacy” admits are affirmative action is dishonest. They are wrong to exist, to be sure, but not affirmative action. This modern trope needs to stop.

    Both sports and legacy admits are for $$. AA isn’t.

    Sports admits garner money for a school in terms of selling rights for broadcast, and for advertisers who will sponser a successful program. They also garner money because, for whatever reason, alumni give more generously when the football team is beating rivals and winning awards. Alumni just don’t care as much for a Marshall scholar as they do for an All-American basketball star, as twisted as that is.

    Legacy admits are exceedingly rare nowadays–I think you mean more “rich people getting in” due to Daddy’s influence/money; they’re pretty much the same thing. That, too is about money; Ted Kennedy clearly did not belong at Harvard law, but rejecting him would have meant losing Joe Kennedy’s money. Joe sweetened the pot by the creating the Kennedy school of Government.

    Affirmative action hires is not about horse trading, its about allowing people in, not in terms of the money they will bring in, but about some mythological “proper proportion” to a student body. Alumni by and large don’t give more when they see a black kid or a balanced female/male ration. Sposnsers and ESPN don’t come running with cash when a kid who scored a 400 on his SATs is admitted because he’s a Filipino deaf mute gay kid from Wisconsin.

    AA is about social engineering and placating left-wing social theory (and preventing Al Sharpton from acting like the ninny he is). Sports/Legacy is about $$. Both types are wrong, but they aren’t the same.

    And please; I agree white women have benefitted from AA, but most of their admission is due to schools dropping a policy of banning them (i.e. going co-ed) and not from searching for them via AA. Just like dropping Jim Crow from baseball markedly increased the number of black all-stars more than artificially calling some black superstars great merely because they were black.

    Also, and more importantly, the SAT scores, class ranks, and grades of white women and their success far outpace the proportional black rates. To wit: most professional schools have anonymous testing, where tests are conducted with ID #’s so professors don’t know whose grade they are testing. In schools that practice this, its common for white women to lead the class in proportion to their numbers in the class.

    Not so with black admits overall ; in color blind testing, they consistently lag in the bottom 10%.

    Clarence Thomas talks about this in his autobiography, and he got frustrated when black leaders still claimed bias. To Thomas, the answer was simple: blacks weren’t qualified for the positions they were getting, and admitting them to schools they didn’t belong in wasn’t helping them or anyone around them. AA, as Thomas saw it, was a counterproductive as a government artificially propping up cotton prices in the late 19th/early 20th century: it destroyed the market.

    This is partly why Thomas became conservative: he saw forced integration (as opposed to forced segregation) as counter-productive to black interests. He often points out that one of the worse things that happened to black businesses was the end of segregation and enforced integration, precisely because black businesses had catered exclusively to blacks who had been excluded from non-black establishments. He feels that a repeal of Jim Crow was definitely necessary, but that beyond that, with busing, etc. was a partial cause of the current sorry state of the black family. A color-blind approach going forward would have allowed for adaptation while not burning down the neighborhood.

    From an economic standpoint, his argument makes sense. Efficiency dictates that the people most suited to do something be allowed to do it. AA and Jim Crow both serve to engender inefficiency in a system by artificially propping up individuals to positions they can’t handle.

    3. never said they was never any fucking. but the long term sexual history also indicates that black women were never considered as attractive as non-blacks.

    Yeah, a couple of guys going postal. bfd. sometimes its in the air, unfortunately.

    Like


  471. “I find large diesel engines more interesting than electric engines.”

    I find electrics to be much better. Better designs, the sound of AC traction is nicer (whoowhoo!), better acceleration, and higher speeds. Plus, catenary is pretty.

    I like diesel engines interesting from a purely emotional perspective. As any combustion engines, however well-optimized they may be, electrification is without a doubt a better solution than relying on diesels in the long run. Besides, combustion engines of all types will eventually be rendered obsolete by fuel cells and better batteries in all types of applications.


    “How do you like the sound of this engine?”

    Loud, noisy, and brutish. Sounds similar to some of the diesels here in the States…

    That particular engine has been phased out. That train was returning from an exhibition.

    The brutishness is exactly what I like about large diesel engines. I find marine diesel exhaust sounds and battle tank engine sounds pleasant, too.

    Here are three Dr16s with electric drive engines pulling a heavy ore train.

    This is Leopard 2 main battle tank crushing cars.

    Like


  472. “I find large diesel engines more interesting than electric engines.”

    I find electrics to be much better. Better designs, the sound of AC traction is nicer (whoowhoo!), better acceleration, and higher speeds. Plus, catenary is pretty.

    I like diesel engines interesting from a purely emotional perspective. As any combustion engines, however well-optimized they may be, electrification is without a doubt a better solution than relying on diesels in the long run. Besides, combustion engines of all types will eventually be rendered obsolete by fuel cells and better batteries in all types of applications.


    “How do you like the sound of this engine?”

    Loud, noisy, and brutish. Sounds similar to some of the diesels here in the States…

    That particular engine has been phased out. That train was returning from an exhibition.

    The brutishness is exactly what I like about large diesel engines. I find marine diesel exhaust sounds and battle tank engine sounds pleasant, too.

    Here are three Dr16s with electric drive engines pulling a heavy ore train.

    This is Leopard 2 main battle tank crushing cars.

    Like


  473. “I find large diesel engines more interesting than electric engines.”

    I find electrics to be much better. Better designs, the sound of AC traction is nicer (whoowhoo!), better acceleration, and higher speeds. Plus, catenary is pretty.

    I like diesel engines interesting from a purely emotional perspective. As any combustion engines, however well-optimized they may be, electrification is without a doubt a better solution than relying on diesels in the long run. Besides, combustion engines of all types will eventually be rendered obsolete by fuel cells and better batteries in all types of applications.


    “How do you like the sound of this engine?”

    Loud, noisy, and brutish. Sounds similar to some of the diesels here in the States…

    That particular engine has been phased out. That train was returning from an exhibition.

    The brutishness is exactly what I like about large diesel engines. I find marine diesel exhaust sounds and battle tank engine sounds pleasant, too.

    Here are three Dr16s with electric drive engines pulling a heavy ore train.

    This is Leopard 2 main battle tank crushing cars.

    Like


  474. Obsidian,

    you may find this interesting:

    Why Most Serial Killers are White Men

    Like


  475. Does anyone else notice that DA is carrying on a conversation with himself?

    Like


  476. nevermind, i guess markku is in the mix

    Like


  477. A further descent in to pathetic and pointless pop-culturedom?

    Roissy is straying far off his game on this blog – his once incisive commentary has become more and more focused on the superficial and the inane.

    What a waste.

    Like


  478. Obsidian, I answered you, and I readily accept that the white elitist SWPL crowd, as well as liberal urban white women, are the true enemy of what is good for this country and for straight white males. For straight white males to start defending THEIR interests, they have to first realize this. Minority groups are pawns used by the white elitists to advance their own power.

    Like


  479. I’ll recap the gist of the serial killer article:

    Black men are overrepresented among serial killers in the USA only by a factor of two, which is too little considering the fact that their overrepresentation increases the more serious criminality is in question.

    Here’s the beef: white men’s standard deviation in criminality is so much greater that, together with their 7 to 1 numerical superiority compared to black men, in the very far right end of the American criminality distribution (the sickest of the sick mothafuckas around) you will find white men approaching parity with black men again.

    Like


  480. Lurker, a guy who froths about how ugly I am did not grow up around Black people.

    It’s that, or you’re taking the negging thing a little too far.

    You’re too much of a sheep not to have adopted the tastes of your peers.

    Like


  481. Markku,

    I always thought that whites made up almost all serial killers in the U.S. While blacks tend to engage in the “less-disturbing” murders (i.e. gang violence, simple robbery, etc.), whites are responsible for the “disturbing” ones (i.e. mass shootings, family shootings, church shootings, school shootings, mall shootings, serial killing, cannibalism).

    I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying, but it seems as if whites have a higher deviation from the mean for their types of murder.

    Like


  482. Lurker,
    Before I reply, let me commend you for your very well written and reasoned response. And I mean that. No matter whether we agree or not, I like to think we can have reasonable discussions on the issues of the day.

    Now, having said that, let me address your comments.

    While you’re correct in your parsing out the differences between legacy admits, sports scholarships and affirmative action, the point remains that in each of those instances, something *other than pure academic merit* was applied in order to give said applicants a literal leg up. And that is wrong, IF your stances wrt aa is principled; if you truly think that artificially propping up students, for whatever reason, is wrong, then you cannot stop at the few Black folks who get over on aa, you have to go the whole nine yards. Otherwise, you only make yourself out to be a scapegoating type with a sinister agenda.

    Also, let’s be clear: affirmative action has been quite lucrative, both on the uni campus and in the business world. It may hav started out as an altruistic measure, but has certainly grown to be a business unto itself. Many colleges stand to make big money from its aa programs, as do the contracts awarded at the federal, state and local levels.

    My thing is simply to force out the true motivations of those who rail against aa-do they do it based on a true principled stand, in the interest of fostering real academic integrity and excellence? Or do they rail on and on against aa because they have problems with people who don’t look like them and taking slots that in their mind, should be theirs, qualified or not?

    And that brings me to Clarence Thomas. Which is very ironic since in many ways, he too benefitted from aa and then tried to bring up the gangplank up behind him. Its also interesting that many viewed *his* nomination to the Supreme Court, not on the basis of his character, but rather on his color-and political ideology. A major critique of Thomas’ bona fides was that he had a paperthin resume, especially when it came to actually trying major cases before the Supreme Court itself, which his predecessor, Thurgood Marshall, did in spades. Pardon the pun.

    Now, I actually don’t have too much of an axe to grind w/Thomas personally, and note with satisfaction that Thomas not only was a member in good standing of the Black Student Union while in school, but he recounts on several occasions his standing up to out and out racism. These are to be commended.

    But what I take issue with Thomas and others (Sowell) is that they don’t seem terribly interested in redressing the very real imbalances in terms of test scores and the like among African Americans. Its almost as if they simply shrug their shoulders and say “oh well”. Of course they’re entitled to d that, but I find their lack of interest in this regard to be disturbing.

    OK, that’s it. Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  483. Also, let’s be clear: affirmative action has been quite lucrative, both on the uni campus and in the business world.

    Could you clarify this? I’ve never heard of that before and you just kind of threw it out there.

    Like


  484. Seeking Alpha,
    Yes, I’ll try to clarify as best I can.

    Its my understanding that set aside contracts, as well as certain kinds of admits to univeristies and the like are tied to state and federal monies; if you get a certain number of admits or contracts, you get paid by the state. Now, I’m not drawing on any knowledge of a specialized sort, but this is my understanding, very basic, of how affirmative action works on the financial side.

    Perhaps its possible to look this up online? I don’t know.

    O

    Like


  485. on March 11, 2009 at 2:49 pm Default User

    Obsidian

    The real enemy of Straight White Males, ain’t Black folk like me, but *other White folks*, more popularly known as the Stuff White People Like crowd.

    Agreed. I do not think I have seen anyone argue against that.

    That when the topic of Affirmative Action comes up, it is only addressed in racial (read, BLACK) terms; when its pointed out that other groups have tremendously benefitted from AA, such as White Women, Sports & Legacy admits, the Sound of Silence is deafening.

    Affirmative Action is mostly about race. It is a zero sum game, the spoils of one group are a loss to another. Black people support it because it benefits them, white people oppose it because it hurts them. It is no surprise that white men will object to a policy that only hurts them.

    Sports AA probably benefits blacks more than whites.

    I do not know how big “legacy” AA is, but in any case it is more like the promote-from-within policies that many employers have. It does not cause the same resentment because it seems like the soft nepotism that we all practice (if I need to fill a position, I will call people I know).

    The reasons for “ignoring” female AA (it works for non-white women too) are 1) the woman are often qualified, having good test scores etc. 2) As has been pointed out on this blog, men that complain about female advantages are dismissed as whiners and pussies, they are ignored (no one likes a “beta” male, remember).

    That, when examing the sexual history of the USA, one can only conclude that quite a few White Men found Black Women sexually attractive. Please note that we are not discussing longterm pairbonding, etc, et al. Purely in fucking terms, the evidence is irrefutable.

    I don’t believe that anyone said that all black women are unattractive, only that the curve is shifted to the left (relatively fewer very attractive black women, not no attractive black women). As you have pointed out, the dynamic is the opposite for black men. Because these are averages, and we are each individuals, we are not left in a state of dateless black women and dateless white men.

    Another point regarding the black women/white man attraction is supply and demand. Black women make up about 6 percent of the population, white males more than 30 percent. Even a relatively low small percent of white men preferring black females will result in lots of white come-ons to black women. Indeed, a preference for black females by 20 percent of white males would soak up all of the supply of black females [I love geeky econ talk :)]. That would still leave 80 percent of white males uninterested in black females, yet the black females fielding lots of white pickup attempts.

    Regarding white shooters, serial killers, rapists, etc.
    This is another problem of averages versus individuals.
    Yes, white guys do bad things (hey, at least some of us must be high T), but 50 percent of violent crime is committed by black men (6 or 7 percent of the population). This is the downside of high T.

    One final question: IF AA is a response to past injustices to black people, why don’t black people fight against AA for Hispanics and Asians (groups who came of their own free will and have only benefited from being in the US)?

    David Alexander
    Don’t worry about white racists. Despite the media scares you are far less likely to be the victim of inter-racial crime than a white person. Indeed, if you are as geeky and gawky as you say, you will likely not even get nasty/scared looks. So enjoy your journeys into “snowflake” land!

    Like


  486. on March 11, 2009 at 2:53 pm Gunslingergregi

    “on March 11, 2009 at 1:25 pm Obsidian
    Seeking Alpha,
    Yes, I’ll try to clarify as best I can.

    Its my understanding that set aside contracts, as well as certain kinds of admits to univeristies and the like are tied to state and federal monies; if you get a certain number of admits or contracts, you get paid by the state. Now, I’m not drawing on any knowledge of a specialized sort, but this is my understanding, very basic, of how affirmative action works on the financial side.

    Perhaps its possible to look this up online? I don’t know.”

    You seem to have no knowledge of any sort and just throw out your racial thoughts on things and want whitey to help you figure it out.

    Like


  487. on March 11, 2009 at 3:07 pm Gunslingergregi

    Obsidian you should take all your knowledge as one of the smart black american men and go and use it to help an african country become a world superpower.

    Check out Germany for that system you want to explore where you have to get straight a’s in school and get in the right program in order to work in a bank. Singapore also should be on your list of places to visit.

    Like


  488. @ Default User

    “That would still leave 80 percent of white males uninterested in black females, yet the black females fielding lots of white pickup attempts.”
    That’s the best theory I’ve heard so far. From what I’ve seen, there are, loosely, three categories of white men (on this topic), the first group, who just doesn’t/ won’t admit to finding black women attractive, a second group who hasn’t really spent time around black people, but is ‘down for whatever’, and the last group, your speculative 20%, who loooves black women, and actively seeks them out.

    Like


  489. on March 11, 2009 at 4:02 pm Gunslingergregi

    Don’t think it is 20 percent or when I went into the all black club I would have seen other white guys there. The woman did however come and sit at my table was really some strange shit. No game needed at all. Ignore then a new chick. Ignore new chick. Go on the dance floor busted my white guy dance moves twirled some black mamas around. No drink buying nothing. Went outside woman ready to go home period waiting on me. Black dude talking about he could rob me I am like ok whats your point. Surprizingly didn’t get robbed. Usual not give a fuck about personal injury to self keeps me from actually getting injured/robbed/bullied and move on. People sense when you give a fuck about what they are about to do. I can see what absid would be talking about when black folk get together if it is like that for them too there. Two black guys I went with one couldn’t handle his whiskey puked his guts out outside. Another one did pull for the night.

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  490. on March 11, 2009 at 4:17 pm Gunslingergregi

    So yea anyone hitting on black girls at work constantly just go to a predominently black club. The women will be on you like lfies on shit.

    Like


  491. Default User,
    Interesting points you make; but again, what are we arguing here? Are we arguing for pure academic integrity and educational excellence? Or, are we arguing agaist certain groups?

    You see, those other forms of affirmative action forces one to confront the question I posed above. It reveals whether you really have a principled stance that cuts accross the board no matter who’s involved, or, if you really only harbor an axe to grind against a particular group.

    You mention that White Women “often” get good or better test scores; but not *always*. That means that there is still a chance that somewhere, some White Women got in *because* they were a member of a minority, in this case, being a Woman, rather than having thee best test scores.

    You also suggest that Black folks benefit the most from Sports admits. Oh yeah? Well, first off, college atheletes don’t even get paid for all their hard work; indeed, most of them will never make it to the big leagues, so their chances of making big bucks is pretty long.

    But we know for a fact who’s making out like a fat rat on such admits-the universities, which, last time I heard, aint headed up by Black folks. So, that means that for the most part, White folks benefit from Sport admits, largely of academically unqualified Black atheletes.

    As for the crime piece, yes I fully admit that per capita, Black Males comit more violent crimes, such as homicide. True dat.

    However, when it comes to crimes that most would consider truly heinous, such as serial murder, serial rape and the like, shooting up innocent bystanders in schools and on the job, drowning their own kids in bath tubs, and so on, invariably, these are the acts of White folks, mainly but not limited to, Males. Most of the murders commited in the hood are due to either a drug deal gone wrong, and/or a form of fratricide-an argument breaking out either family members, neighbors or some other form of situation where the parties involved know each other.

    Ok, holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  492. @ Obsidian

    “Most of the murders commited in the hood are due to either a drug deal gone wrong, and/or a form of fratricide-an argument breaking out either family members, neighbors or some other form of situation where the parties involved know each other.”
    So true, which is why I feel safer in the hood a lot of times. You KNOW who you have beef with, there’s no confusion, or mistaken identity. White people let all kinds of personal shit fester for years and years and then get up one day like, I’m gonna kill everybody. That includes kids, pets, old ladies who lent you busfare once, EVERYBODY.

    Now that’s some crazy shit.

    Like


  493. Obsidian —

    But what I take issue with Thomas and others (Sowell) is that they don’t seem terribly interested in redressing the very real imbalances in terms of test scores and the like among African Americans. Its almost as if they simply shrug their shoulders and say “oh well”. Of course they’re entitled to d that, but I find their lack of interest in this regard to be disturbing.

    That’s not true of Sowell at all. His basic position on black under performance in education and work that depends upon high level education and smarts, is that it’s cultural and in many ways has gotten worse — just when the opportunities and AA made it so much easier. He talks about his disciplined, no nonsense black Harlem magnet school, and suggests that in many ways the all black environment, provided there was the right cultural tone, was an advantage to him, at the beginning, while he still needed training wheels (as we all do at that age).

    You really should read his great three volume trilogy on the impact of culture and cultural differences through history. “Immigration and Culture”, “Conquest and Culture” and another one who’s name escapes me. It will be “… and Culture” and Amazon will let you know.

    As for Thomas pulling the gang plank of AA up behind him, well good for him. That is of course an inflamatory analogy and not at all his motivation. In fact it would necessarily take a lot of courage of convictions to vote as he has on the court on that subject. Which is commendable.

    BTW, I think there was some considerable justification for AA for blacks (and Amerindians) at the beginning, for a couple of decades. For demonstration effect. To create role models at all manner of high levels, even if their merit didn’t always entirely justify their high level. There was never any justification for AA for women and I was ALWAYS opposed to it. Yeah a lot of men chicken out on that because it’s hard to oppose something that benefits someone you’re living with (mother and then wife), particularly when all the media are telling you it’s a moral imperative and any opposition is simply selfish and ‘Neanderthal’. But I don’t know and haven’t heard of anyone who’s opposed to AA for blacks who also isn’t opposed to it for white and all women. It’s just that it doesn’t produced anywhere near as skewed results. Women are on average as smart as men (or if not, only very slightly less so and that all on the math side), and more diligent students and beauacratic workers. They aren’t nearly as creative or innovate on average, nor are they as smart at the far limits of intelligence, again particular in math, but also verbal when were talking beyond three sigma especially. However this refers to a small percentage (though a vitally important) segment of the population, and for the most part AA for women, at least for getting in the door as opposed to promotions, doesn’t generally involve admitting or hiring beyond their true merit or competence. It does, all the time, with blacks.

    It’s now well past time for AA to end. The fact that African Americans haven’t reached parity in educational attainment, income, wealth, or SAT’s or other proxies for IQ (perhaps the root reason), is no sufficient reason to continue Affirmative Action. For it to be so, one would have to believe that the entire reason why not was continuing IRRATIONAL mainstream (white) prejudice, and not at all due to differences in black culture and yes genes. That belief would be entirely leftist dogma, made unchallengeable in addressing a wide public by PC censorship, which often does occur before the fact, but virtually always occurs after the fact. Again if a wide audience is being addressed.

    See e.g. James Watson’s firing from his Chairmanship of the Cold Spring Harbor Institute, affiliated with SUNY but nonetheless one of the nation’s leading genetics research centers, which he built up from scratch. He the co-discoverer with Crick of DNA and one of the principal founders of modern genetic science, and Nobel science (the only kind of Nobel that isn’t heavily leftist politicized) winner. His unpardonable sin? He offhandedly and solicitously for Africans, mentioned that he thought one of the reasons why Africa has so lagged in development over the last forty years since decolonization, compared to most of the rest of the less developed world, was due to innate IQ challenges of Africans — and that development models that took this into account might be more helpful there than ones that ignored it. For which there is a whole lot of scientific evidence. Voluminous in fact, but very politically incorrect.

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  494. Most of the murders commited in the hood are due to either a drug deal gone wrong, and/or a form of fratricide-an argument breaking out either family members, neighbors or some other form of situation where the parties involved know each other

    There is one category of violent crime that didn’t get mentioned here, and which appears to be a province of black males: the sadistic interracial rape / torture / murdr of a completely random innocent white person.

    Some examples form recent past, a few of which are so infamous they have “nicknames” that makes googling them easier:

    – The Wichita Massacre: two blacks home-invade five young whites, drive them to a football field at night, make them strip, and kill with gun shots to the head. One girl survives.

    – The Knoxville Atrocity: a group of blacks carjacks a young white teen couple, take them to the hood, rape, sodomize, torture, and kill after a day or so.

    – A young white woman, Columbia U. student, I believe, opens her apartment door for a black guy who ties her up, rapes her, attempts to blind her by cutting her eyelids, cuts her face several times, makes her swallow a bottle of Tylenol and sets fire to a chouch that she is tied to. She survives.

    There are many more like these. The Baltimore bus beating. The Atlanta breakin/murder. And tons others. Some things these events have in common, other than the horryfic nature of the crime and the racial pattern:

    – They are not persecuted as hate crimes (yes, Obsidian, you are correct: the SWPL types are the real enemy. Of both blacks and whites.)

    – The media buries the stories. They do not go beyond local newspapers, and even there, the racial elements are buried.

    – No evidence of black folks, even on the local level, expressing shame or outrage for these crimes. In the case of the Knoxville Atrocity, blacks did turn out to hold a vigil outside of the courhouse where the suspects were held… to protest on the perps’ behalf.

    Yes, Chloe, that’s some sick shit.

    Like


  495. @ dougjnn

    Wow, so according to what I read on this website, because I’m black, I’m supposed to both stupid and ugly. Omg, with all those deficiencies, how have we managed to survive thus far?!? FYI, I was tested at a child, scored around 120. And I’m attractive.

    I must not be black.

    *rolls eyes*

    If you buy into Sowell’s sentimental retrospective on his magnet school, where black children did well, how can you reconcile that with all of your genetic theories? I mean, you said yourself, it’s cultural. Could it be possible that what black kids say is true? That white teachers are, among other things, dismissive and quick to put them in special ed for offenses that would get a white kid detention.

    I know it’s easy to look for evidence for a theory you already believe, but be intellectually honest about it. Which is it, genes or culture?

    Like


  496. on March 11, 2009 at 5:51 pm Default User

    Obsidian

    Interesting points you make; but again, what are we arguing here? Are we arguing for pure academic integrity and educational excellence? Or, are we arguing agaist certain groups?

    White opposition to affirmative action because it is “a policy that hurts us” is a logical and understandable response. The argument is not against black people, but against a policy that thumbs the scale in favor of another group. Natural in-group preference (nepotism/ethnocentricity) will favor policies that help, or at least not hinder, their group.

    White people have a right to look after their group interests. You do not need intellectual purity; this is about the distribution of political spoils. There is (or should be) no shame in a white person opposing AA for the sole reason that it may hurt him (no academic excellence arguments). It is no different than opposing a tax policy that hurts them even while benefiting another person.

    White opposition to AA is not opposition to black Americans, it is opposition to a policy that has costs to white Americans.

    Regarding Female AA
    I have seen opposition to female AA regarding things such as: Womyns Studies, Title IX, etc. I have seen very strong opposition to AA in services like policing, fire fighting, and the military.

    For the record my ideas on AA are:
    – Because of our history, I could be convinced of the case for AA for African Americans (descendants of slaves) only. No Hispanics, no Asians, etc.

    – The benefits to black Americans are far less than touted.

    – It may have some negative effects (e.g., students over their heads at prestige colleges, who could have completed courses at a less prestigious school).

    – It, of course, creates another stifling bureaucracy that cares more for its own survival.

    Like


  497. @ PA

    I find it interesting that you respond to a post about Dahmer, and other serial rapists/mass murderers, with a post about single or double murders. Not that it makes a difference to the dead people, but we WERE talking about that exact thing, so really, if that’s the most heinous stuff you could come up with, you’re providing evidence for O’s point, which was that white people kill, like, 30 people when they finally snap, as opposed to other people, who just kill the people they’re mad at.

    Also, how do you know those incidents weren’t the results of drug deals gone wrong, or some other personal issues?

    Like


  498. Dougjnn, PA, Chloe

    Re: black culture and achievement

    I studied my hometown newspaper announcement of Black high school recipients of a Black-only academic merit scholarship. Ours is a low income city with 70% of public school students qualifying for free-or-reduced lunches.

    Results:
    18/27 recipients were from two-parent families, and the child shared the same surname as both parents

    9/27 recipients were from single parent homes, or recipient surname is different than the listed parent(s).

    I interpret this as the two-parent homes hugely outproducing academic scholarship relative to the Black community in general. I can only speculate as the the % of two-parent Black families in our city, but I suspect it is <20%.

    Like


  499. @ anony

    … more evidence that the differences are cultural, not genetic. I’m sure you’d find similar stats for white people, because kids need stability at home to do well in school.

    Like


  500. Also, how do you know those incidents weren’t the results of drug deals gone wrong, or some other personal issues?

    Go ahead into the circling of black wagons. Defend the Carr brothers of Wichita or the Knoxville savages.

    If you google these incidents you will see that there is no possibility of these being “the results of drug deals gone wrong, or some other personal issues.”

    Like


  501. @ PA

    No, I was asking YOU, since you seem to be familiar with the cases. If you’re not, say so, just don’t cite them as evidence for anything.

    I notice you didn’t respond to the rest of my comment.

    Like


  502. on March 11, 2009 at 6:14 pm Gunslingergregi

    “on March 11, 2009 at 5:01 pm Chloe
    @ Obsidian

    “Most of the murders commited in the hood are due to either a drug deal gone wrong, and/or a form of fratricide-an argument breaking out either family members, neighbors or some other form of situation where the parties involved know each other.”
    So true, which is why I feel safer in the hood a lot of times. You KNOW who you have beef with, there’s no confusion, or mistaken identity. White people let all kinds of personal shit fester for years and years and then get up one day like, I’m gonna kill everybody. That includes kids, pets, old ladies who lent you busfare once, EVERYBODY.

    Now that’s some crazy shit.”

    You must be mental bringing up that shit when you know how much can be brought out the file read pa’s list. That is a very short list. The thing too is that during a lot of cases a sister is there with the black men as well loving I guess getting in on the action of putting down the white man and woman who didn’t ever do shit to them personaly.

    Obsidian or Chloe answer this. Was there ever a white man who raped, killed or used violence to rob someone you know or was there a person you know who was a victim of such a crime. Now answer was there a black man either of you know that raped killed violently robbed someone you know or person you know a victim of such a crime.

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  503. @ PA

    Also, let me just say, I love how my post sent you into a tizzy about ‘circling the black wagons’ and ‘savages.’

    So, since you refuse to admit that white people commit crimes just like everybody else, when I accuse you of ‘circling the white wagons’ and ‘defending savages’, you won’t say anything?

    Riiiight.

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  504. Fine Chloe. They were not incidents of drug deal goen wrong. They were — as I said originally — examples of sadistic crimes against random white people. I provided those examples as a category of crime that appears to be primarily committed by blacks.

    I don’t know what you want me to say about Dahmer. He was a sick bastard. And guys who snap and massacre innocent people? to hell with them too. (They aren’t just white, btw.) I wasn’t talking about them. I was talkign about racially-motivated torture/rape/murders.

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  505. you refuse to admit that white people commit crimes just like everybody

    When did I ever say that whites don’t commit crimes?

    All I did was to toss out a category of crime that has not yet come up in this discussion — the interracial rape/torture/murder of random victims.

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  506. PA said, “No evidence of black folks, even on the local level, expressing shame or outrage for these crimes.”

    Ever occur to you that the media suppresses that too?

    If they were to give air time to people (like my parents and likeminded educators and church leaders) who publically condemn violent crime across the board, they would have to admit that we’re not all victims or thinking like victims.

    Like


  507. “The Wichita Massacre: two blacks home-invade five young whites, drive them to a football field at night, make them strip, and kill with gun shots to the head. One girl survives.”

    Glad you mentioned that. The Carr brothers are some sadistic fucks. Here’s an account of some of their heinous acts.

    http://www.thule-italia.net/devi/devi/library.flawlesslogic.com/wichita.htm

    I’ll mention that in Wichita, there was another quadruple homicide 8 days before the Carr brothers incident. In this incident, 4 black teens were murdered by two black men. The difference b/w that and the Carr brothers’ case (and it doesn’t mean it isn’t heinous) is that the murder stemmed from a long-running domestic situation. Although the outcome is the same, the fact that 4 whites were randomly selected by the Carrs makes it more unnerving.

    Around the same time in Wichita, BTK, the notorious serial killer resurfaced with a series of letters to the local newspaper. Over a span of 20 years BTK murdered ca. 12 women (all white).

    There’s really no point to these, just filling some of you all in on how fucked up it is here in Wichita.

    Like


  508. Gunslinger asks, “Obsidian or Chloe answer this. Was there ever a white man who raped, killed or used violence to rob someone you know or was there a person you know who was a victim of such a crime.”

    Well, it’s a good thing you didn’t ask me…

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  509. @ PA

    “Fine Chloe.”
    Very gracious of you.

    “I provided those examples as a category of crime that appears to be primarily committed by blacks.

    I don’t know what you want me to say about Dahmer. ”
    Here’s one thing: he preyed primarily on black men. So… there goes that theory, because that one guy alone equals or surpasses your whole list. I bet you could find hispanics doing crazy stuff to non-hispanics, too.

    Like


  510. on March 11, 2009 at 6:33 pm Gunslingergregi

    Go ahead Kthula whatcha got.

    Like


  511. @ kthulah,

    You can reply in my place, since I said somewhere upthread that I won’t be dealing with GS on this topic again. When white people start preemptively calling me racist, it truly becomes an upside-down, topsy-turvy world.

    Like


  512. on March 11, 2009 at 6:34 pm Gunslingergregi

    neither obsidian nor chloe can come up with a reason why they hate white people.

    Like


  513. Obsidian or Chloe answer this. Was there ever a white man who raped, killed or used violence to rob someone you know or was there a person you know who was a victim of such a crime. Now answer was there a black man either of you know that raped killed violently robbed someone you know or person you know a victim of such a crime.

    I know a hispanic girl who was gang-raped by a group of whites and an asian actually. They raped some other girls in her town as well before they were caught, including a 20-something white girl and a 13 year old white girl. I also know two black girls who cried date rape against two black guys in my time and a black woman who was a victim of a home invasion rape. I’ve never personally known a black or white guy who violently raped or killed someone, although I do know both whites and blacks who have violently robbed people.

    Like


  514. Weren’t Dahmer’s victims were mostly Laotian boys? But I’ll cede this topic to you as I haven’t read much about him lately.

    I bet you could find hispanics doing crazy stuff to non-hispanics, too.

    Yes. Hispanics have carried on campaigns of cleansing blacks from pooreer neighborhoods by killing random ones, even kids. Such as the Newark NJ massacre from las summer.

    An evil thing to be sure, but different in motivation. What the Hispanics are doing is old-fashioned territorial conquest. Noffing personal, senor, just business.

    What blacks do in the examples I provided is acting out on a bottled-up hate against whites, whom they blame for everything. After all, the media and the schools drill it into blacks’ heads non-stop about “racism” and “slavery.”

    Going back to my earlier comment: the white SWPL elite is the real enemy. I want to see them hanging on lamp posts.

    Like


  515. Oh, and I do know a black girl when I was in high school who was a victim of attempted rape by a white guy but she fought him off and he ran away.

    Like


  516. @ kthulah

    “Ever occur to you that the media suppresses that too?”

    I didn’t see this at first, but that is a really good point. I, myself, am of the opinion that any and all violent criminals and thieves should be punished to the full extent of the law, but, in my world, that would include white people because, under the current system, they literally get away with murder.

    I can say this because I watch a whole lotta CourtTv, which features real criminal cases, not like CSI, and nine out of ten of them are white. When the police finally exhaust all immediate leads, ie, any person of color who was in the neighborhood or any white/black guy who did work in the yard or whatever, they eventually get to the real murderer, usually the spouse. But, if that first suspect has anything suspicious going on his life, count on that eating up a few months, giving the white spouse plenty of time to dispose of the body, or flee. Ridiculous.

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  517. Weren’t Dahmer’s victims were mostly Laotian boys? But I’ll cede this topic to you as I haven’t read much about him lately.

    They seem to be mostly black with a few asians and hispanics thrown in.

    Like


  518. PA,

    “What blacks do in the examples I provided is acting out on a bottled-up hate against whites, whom they blame for everything. After all, the media and the schools drill it into blacks’ heads non-stop about “racism” and “slavery.””

    True enough. Again, in Wichita, our district attorney refused to classify the Carr case as racially motivated even though they targeted 3 separate groups of white people before they home-invaded the final 5. The Carr’s crime *was* racially motivated, but where’s the cries for hate-crime status?

    Although, I’d be careful saying that white SWPL elite are the real enemy. That takes too much blame away from the sick fucks who actually commit the crimes.

    Like


  519. on March 11, 2009 at 6:45 pm Gunslingergregi

    Ok Ricky trying to come to rescue again. But hispanic not black but something. And robberies ok. I am trying to figure out why black people hate whites enough to kill main disfigure rape them. Trying to understand where it is coming from. When whites are not on a consistant basis killing, raping, robbing people they know.

    Like


  520. on March 11, 2009 at 6:47 pm Gunslingergregi

    “Chloe
    @ kthulah,

    You can reply in my place, since I said somewhere upthread that I won’t be dealing with GS on this topic again. When white people start preemptively calling me racist, it truly becomes an upside-down, topsy-turvy world.”

    You never replied to shit in the first place. Just bring up absurdities.

    Like


  521. on March 11, 2009 at 6:50 pm Gunslingergregi

    “T. AKA Ricky Raw
    Oh, and I do know a black girl when I was in high school who was a victim of attempted rape by a white guy but she fought him off and he ran away.”

    Something.

    Like


  522. Chloe:

    “but, in my world, that would include white people because, under the current system, they literally get away with murder.

    I can say this because I watch a whole lotta CourtTv, which features real criminal cases, not like CSI, and nine out of ten of them are white.”

    So white people get away with murder but 9 out of 10 cases on CourtTV involve white murderers? How are they, then, getting away with murder?

    If those murders are indeed usually b/w married couples, it would seem to me that the husband would cover his ass to the full extent since he knows the heat will be on him. This makes it much harder to immediately make an arrest.

    In random murders, the kind that blacks tend to partake in when the victim is white, there is no game of CYA. An eyewitness is usually the catalyst in making an arrest, and from there physical evidence predicates an arrest.

    Like


  523. Although, I’d be careful saying that white SWPL elite are the real enemy. That takes too much blame away from the sick fucks who actually commit the crimes.

    I agree with you. I don’t give the individuals who commit crimes any quarter. But that’s like the difference between the fist that is beating you and the brain that’s driving this fist.

    Without Leftist control of the law, media and education, violent offenders (of any race) would be hanged, would-be criminals would fear the cops and pissed off citizens, black people would not harbor the kind of hate and envy of whites that so many do, and regular folks would take common-sense precautions against potential predators by not “feeling guilty” about, say, not opening their door for a thuggish looking black guy knocking on your door at 11 PM.

    Like


  524. Ok Ricky trying to come to rescue again.

    What, am I not free to respond to a comment?

    But hispanic not black but something.

    I don’t understand this sentence, what are you trying to say here? And I did provide a black example. It was an attempted rape though, but if she didn’t outfight him it would have been a rape.

    I am trying to figure out why black people hate whites enough to kill main disfigure rape them.

    Black crime is definitely a problem, but blacks actually commit much more crimes against other blacks than against whites. I don’t think it’s a giant organized and deliberate anti-white movement on their part. It’s just that when whites are like 78% of the population, there are naturally more whites to attack. In fact, given population numbers, blacks attack other blacks at a disproportionately higher rate to the level they attack whites. Blacks suffer from black crime more than whites do.

    Like


  525. @ PA

    “Weren’t Dahmer’s victims were mostly Laotian boys?”
    Because you asked, I went and found the info for you. Out of 17 murders, at least 11 of them were black.

    “An evil thing to be sure, but different in motivation. What the Hispanics are doing is old-fashioned territorial conquest. Noffing personal, senor, just business.

    What blacks do in the examples I provided is acting out on a bottled-up hate against whites, whom they blame for everything. After all, the media and the schools drill it into blacks’ heads non-stop about “racism” and “slavery.””

    These two paragraphs are full of crap. How do you know their motivations? Are you a mind-reader? Because, in my imagination, just as valid as yours, hispanics are killing blacks because they are well aware that law enforcement won’t come after them, and, to share something with you, black people don’t sit around bemoaning ‘the white man.’ At least, since the 70’s. They’re too busy fighting each other, and hispanics. The only black people I know who constantly talk about white people are the ones who work with them, on average, well-educated blacks, and they’re too busy keeping up with the (white) Jones’ to even consider killing them.

    If what you say is true, that all black people are indoctrinated to hate white people, then why aren’t MORE black people running around killing them? Because you’re wrong, and he black people who did those horrible things you posted are outliers, like Dahmer. It’s really a bit of a stretch to try and put that on a whole community.

    Like


  526. on March 11, 2009 at 7:00 pm Gunslingergregi

    At least you would have something in your life as a basis. I am saying ones in my area did not. Saying most cannot come up with shit about any white people fucking up people they knew.

    Like


  527. on March 11, 2009 at 7:08 pm Gunslingergregi

    I am saying it is not like dahmer if you have to live near them I am saying it is next door.

    Like


  528. Chuck

    “So white people get away with murder but 9 out of 10 cases on CourtTV involve white murderers? How are they, then, getting away with murder?”

    Lol, you’re right. Upon re-reading, I realized I didn’t quite phrase that the way I should have. What I was attempting to say was, they don’t actually ‘get away’ with it, but the delay gives them enough time to, like I said, dispose of the body or flee. If they manage to destroy enough evidence, sometimes they do, literally, ‘get away’ with it, and move on. What about that guy, Drew Peterson? Why is he not in jail? We all know he killed 2, if not 3, wives, and he’s dating some new chick and giggling on tv. WTF?

    “If those murders are indeed usually b/w married couples,”
    No, they’re usually w/w, which is why the police give the survivng spouse, male or female, the benefit of the doubt. You know, letting them delay questioning, giving them time to grieve, and ‘settle affairs.’ By the time that’s over, the murderer’s gotten the insurance money, found a sextoy, and started spending. A black person would be in jail THAT DAY.

    Like


  529. Gunslinger, it’s not enough to show that more whites are crime victims than blacks. Whites make up about 78% of the population, blacks only about 12%. So even if a black man was committing crime in a totally unbiased, random and equitable way, 78% of his victims should turn out white. Showing that more crime victims are white is not by itself evidence of organized, systemic “get whitey” campaign by black criminals. There are just more of them to rob, rape and kill.

    But while blacks comprise only 12% of the U.S. population, 45% of all murder victims in 2002 were black, 91% of whom were killed by other blacks. So yes you are right black crime is a problem, but if anything blacks are going out of their way to kill other blacks and the amount of white murder victims is disproportionately low.

    Black women also make up a much higher percentage of rapes in proportion to their percentage of population.

    There is a general black crime problem for sure, but not a problem of blacks going specifically out of their way to target whites for crime.

    Like


  530. Chloe–

    Wow, so according to what I read on this website, because I’m black, I’m supposed to both stupid and ugly.

    No, I certainly don’t think most black people are stupid. Though that’s a pretty stupid statement, and utterly tendentious. Overlapping bell curve on smarts. Some other groups score considerably lower, e.g. Australian Aborigines, Koisans (Bushmen) and probably African Pigmy’s (limited data).

    Looks are much more subjective, but there have been large cross cultural studies done on what men of a wide variety of racial backgrounds find attractive in pics of relatively attractive women from a wide variety of racial backgrounds. Those studies line up with what most white guys are saying here. Which is not to say that there aren’t beautiful women of entirely West African extraction. And a lot more beautiful “blacks” of considerably mixed extraction. (Mixed with any attractive Eurasians, basically, but in the US of course, that will be mostly with whites).

    If you buy into Sowell’s sentimental retrospective on his magnet school, where black children did well, how can you reconcile that with all of your genetic theories?

    Again, not such a smart question. I didn’t say I entirely agreed with Sowell. I pointed out to Obsidian, who doesn’t show any evidence of having read any of his major works as opposed to perhaps some random political column from him on the web, some of what his central theories are. My own view is that it’s partly genes and partly culture, and the genes tend to influence or drive the culture. I.e. most people tend to focus on what they, compared to those they are competing with, are best in.

    Could it be possible that what black kids say is true? That white teachers are, among other things, dismissive and quick to put them in special ed for offenses that would get a white kid detention.

    No. It’s because a lot more of them are stupid. And often aggressively stupid. Both heavily but not entirely for genetic reasons. Though IQ;s below 70, unless a child has been raised without any socialization, so much as TV for example, is very unlikely to be due to mostly cultural reasons in our stimulus and nutrient rich society.

    See http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/retard.htm

    And more generally:

    http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/

    Note Chloe, I virtually never talked about race issues here, certainly not in a challenging way, until Obsidian, who I generally respect but his irritates me greatly, started going on an extended campaign to convince all here, principally white guys, of the sexual superiority of black men, and then the parity at least in attractiveness to everyone, including white men, whether they knew it themselves or not. And yes EXTENDED. In many, many post comment threads now. Yes he always did it in a soft spoken sort of way. Much more effective. But it was and is in this thread most decidely supremacist, without the sort of nuance about overlap and all that I’ve given in response to you, and generally do from the get go.

    I almost responded to M. Blowhard similarly. Yes he’s right that some white guys here have responded rather crudely to Obsidian. But what he completely omits, largely I think out of the SWPL syndrome even though he’s certainly not all in on that or by any means all PC (but he’s very SENSITIVE to PC), is how provoked it all was. Relentlessly by Obsidian’s Afro American complete sexual superiority stick.

    Like


  531. Hispanics murdering blacks is more territorial b/c if it weren’t for their proximity, the murders wouldn’t be taking place. In the cases PA has cited, blacks *sought out* white victims for their rape/torture/robbery/executions.

    Let me flip it on it’s head and ask, why don’t we see two black men torture/rape/kill a *random group* of blacks?

    “If what you say is true, that all black people are indoctrinated to hate white people, then why aren’t MORE black people running around killing them?”

    Well, criminal punishment and imprisonment is a deterent for some.

    Like


  532. “If those murders are indeed usually b/w married couples,”

    Ha. Sorry. I screwed up too. I meant “between married couples” not black/white married couples. Sorry.

    Like


  533. Black on white rape is very rare; something like 1% of rapes. FBI stats.
    In the Duke Lacrosse rape hoax in the spring of 2006 the DA, the Durham Police, and Duke University all fucked very badly. And they left a paper trail to that effect. The on-going lawsuits will be earth-scorching.
    One reason to have been sceptical from the start on that case is that white on black gang rape is like one every 5 years for the whole country. It is the rarest crime there is.

    Like


  534. Kthulah–

    PA said, “No evidence of black folks, even on the local level, expressing shame or outrage for these crimes.”

    Ever occur to you that the media suppresses that too?

    Occurred to me but rejected. The media would HIGHLIGHT rather than bury that.

    If you can’t admit the mainstream media come from a very PC place, hell even Fox News does for the most part, you can’t be truthful but are instead caught up in doublethink and propaganda.

    Look, where the national and now most media have been coming from for at least 30 years, and more than 40 years in elite northern media or the TV networks, is that there is the whole population of ignorant white rednecks and others like that who have terrible prejudices and retrograde views which cannot be in any way encouraged or fed by giving them news in a way that they can use to support their prejudices. Therefore we will omit the race of murderers or other crime perpetrators when they’re black most or much of the time, unless maybe it’s important to help the police catch the perp, and will especially do so if it’s a sex related, black hate crime, or other especially emotion laden crime from a white point of view. Or anyway, a white view that isn’t 100% in our PC church.

    Yes indeed. That’s been policy at the NY Times, CBS, NBC, ABC, Washington Post, San Fran Cronicle, etc. forever. The Wash. Post is lately sometimes a little less severe about it. Oh, it’s also pretty much policy at Fox News too. Only slightly less so. Slightly.

    On the other hand any white hate crime is sensational front page news, without restraint, and in fact with lots of lurid promotion. This was of course the dynamic behind the Duke Lacrosse media horsesh*t – where it took them a full year to start to allow the far earlier than that truth to seep through their pages.

    Like


  535. Rum —

    Black on white rape is very rare; something like 1% of rapes. FBI stats.

    Where are you getting this? Just making it up out of whole cloth, the way Obsidian often does? You have no idea what you’re talking about. The truth is the exact opposite, leaving aside your spurious 1% statistic.

    Black men rape white women MASSIVELY more often than the other way around. I’ve seen this many times, based on teased out Department of Justice stats. See this from the first google link to come up searching on “interracial rape”:

    Because interracial rape is now overwhelmingly black on white, it has become difficult to do research on it or to find relevant statistics. The FBI keeps very detailed national records on crime, but the way it presents rape data obscures the racial element rather than clarifies it. Dr. William Wilbanks, a criminologist at Florida International University, had to sift carefully through the data to find that in 1988 there were 9,406 cases of black-on-white rape and fewer than ten cases of white-on-black rape. [320] Another researcher concludes that in 1989, blacks were three or four times more likely to commit rape than whites, and that black men raped white women thirty times as often as white men raped black women. [321]

    http://www.solargeneral.com/mirrors/Flawless%20Logic%20Library/library.flawlesslogic.com/rape.htm

    Like


  536. T. AKA Ricky Raw —

    Re: your most recent post, and generally.

    You really do try to be fair T. I’ve read around your site and of course here, and you always do. Respect.

    There is a general black crime problem for sure, but not a problem of blacks going specifically out of their way to target whites for crime.

    The great majority of crime including crime committed by blacks is not racially motivated, that’s true. Interracial rape is another matter. Whether that’s predominantly attraction based or hate based is something I’ve never seen any statistics address – that is after more than a somewhat taboo subject in PC ville. My guess – a mixture of both. A desire to assert a kind of superiority that has elements of both.

    However, contrary to what almost everyone thinks, courtesy of the media, there is considerably more racial hate crime committed by blacks against whites, per capita by the perp., than the reverse. I.e. black men are far more likely to commit hate crimes against whites than white men are against backs. But there are a lot more whites. As I recall the absolute numbers come out about even or slight more white on black hate crimes. But since there are 8x as many whites as blacks, you can see how the per capita is as it is.

    Like


  537. on March 11, 2009 at 8:04 pm Gunslingergregi

    Obsidian was just tryint to make the leap from talking about people and beta and alphas. To Black White and black=alpha white=beta. Everything to him was black vs white. Rather than beta vs alpha when people could argue that beta can become alpha or alpha could become beta. White cannot become black. Black cannot become white. We all can be people though and continue discussion based on people having beta tendancies or alpha tendancies or how to overcome or be either or the dynamic between people and how to achieve maybe some sort of balance or what a person can transend or change to. Again no one can change their being black or white. They can change their attitudes about things or their environments or the way they deal with people.

    Like


  538. douginn
    Sorry. Typed it backwards. I was trying to make the same point as you only in too much of a hurry.

    Like


  539. correction

    Obsidian has been endlessly asserting

    and then the parity at least in attractiveness to everyone, including white men, whether they knew it themselves or not, of black women.

    Like


  540. on March 11, 2009 at 8:17 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea that was the insane part on his part. Especially after bragging over and over and over about him getting multiple white woman to then have a change of heart and now wait a sec black woman are best for everyone and always have been. Then the change of tune on every woman he has sex with he thinks he has to be able to imagine having offsping with. (He learned that one from this site so a good thing) They have to be up to standard. Then he didn’t understand the white races hangups on standards when black people don’t have hangups of things like up to standards with each other.

    Like


  541. Chloe —

    since I said somewhere upthread that I won’t be dealing with GS on this topic again. When white people start preemptively calling me racist, it truly becomes an upside-down, topsy-turvy world.

    Used to being sheltered, are you, from any charges of racism by a heavily black environment or the ultra PC university leftist dogma, carried over as sub text by the media, that blacks can’t be racist? Because, you know, that would be topsy-turvey to the Marxist power relations mindset, where victim groups can never victimize the oppressor group, and such other Marxist drivel?

    Like


  542. @ dougjnn

    “My own view is that it’s partly genes and partly culture, and the genes tend to influence or drive the culture. I.e. most people tend to focus on what they, compared to those they are competing with, are best in.”
    I don’t care how you dress it up, if you think it’s genes, then you’re saying, statistically, I should be stupid. Here we disagree. You assume that people focus on what they’re best in, but what if they never find out what they’re best in? What if a kid with a lot of potential has stupid parents? What if their social network doesn’t include people who know what to look for, and what to do with a smart kid? That kid will grow up never knowing he could have been a master architect, or whatever. He might not ever meet anyone’s who’s SPOKEN to an architect, or knows what they do, or used the word in a sentence.

    I want you to really think about this, honestly, because this is the kind of societal isolation most poor black people live in. So, naturally, they wouldn’t do well in standardized testing.

    “But it was and is in this thread most decidely supremacist”
    I have a problem with your use of the term ‘supremacist.’ Throughout this thread, Obsidian, and a few other posters including myself, have gone out of our way to dislodge some long-held misconceptions about black people, as a group. While doing so, not one of us has classified anybody’s opinions here as ‘racist’ or ‘supremacist.’ In my case, although I may have found those descriptions VERY appropriate, I refrained because, honestly, calling somebody a racist at this point is like calling somebody Hitler. It means you have nothing else to say.

    Yet, I’ve been called a racist, and now you’re calling Obsidian supremacist. I don’t get it.

    I thought white people hated it when people throw those terms around so loosely, and now you’re throwing them at us?

    “Occurred to me but rejected. The media would HIGHLIGHT rather than bury that”
    I seem to recall lots of community groups and churches protesting and marching against innercity violence, meeting with police, etc, but your “liberal media” (ha) strangely neglected to cover that. Here’s another one you probably missed,

    “The James Cummings shooting has been a major topic of discussion in the city, especially since this week’s revelation that he apparently had radioactive materials and instructions for making “dirty bombs” at the home. The materials were removed from the home after the shooting. Authorities have assured the public that there was never a threat of danger.

    Although Maine authorities have impounded the search warrants connected with the Cummings case, they did share some information with the FBI. According to an FBI internal memo that leaked from the Washington Regional Threat and Analysis Center, some of the evidence in the home linked Cummings to “dirty bombs” and white supremacist groups. The FBI memo was part of a report on possible threats to President-elect Barack Obama before his inauguration on Jan. 20.”

    Like


  543. on March 11, 2009 at 8:21 pm Gunslingergregi

    Ricky
    “Gunslinger, it’s not enough to show that more whites are crime victims than blacks. Whites make up about 78% of the population, blacks only about 12%. ”

    Yet 12 percent of the blacks are committing more total murders than 78 percent of the whites.

    Like


  544. The great majority of crime including crime committed by blacks is not racially motivated, that’s true. Interracial rape is another matter. Whether that’s predominantly attraction based or hate based is something I’ve never seen any statistics address – that is after more than a somewhat taboo subject in PC ville. My guess – a mixture of both. A desire to assert a kind of superiority that has elements of both.

    However, contrary to what almost everyone thinks, courtesy of the media, there is considerably more racial hate crime committed by blacks against whites, per capita by the perp., than the reverse. I.e. black men are far more likely to commit hate crimes against whites than white men are against backs. But there are a lot more whites. As I recall the absolute numbers come out about even or slight more white on black hate crimes. But since there are 8x as many whites as blacks, you can see how the per capita is as it is.

    You are absolutely right. Blacks do commit much more racially motivated crime than whites. A LOT more according to the FBI statistics. But the thing is, blacks commit a lot more crime just in general. They commit a hell of a lot more crimes against blacks too. That was my point to Gunslinger. He seems to be trying to say that blacks are going out of their way to target whites for crime victims out of racial hatred. That isn’t true. Blacks disproportionately target other blacks for crimes. And it’s true that blacks commit way more interracial crimes against whites than vice versa, but that’s because they just commit way more crimes period.

    That’s why I say the general problem is just black crime overall. They’re just committing more crime period, which is a bad thing. That I don’t dispute. What I dispute is Gunslinger trying to claim they are going out of their way to target whites for crime.

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  545. Yet 12 percent of the blacks are committing more total murders than 78 percent of the whites.

    Yes, I acknowledged that blacks commit crime at a much higher rate than whites. Repeatedly. What’s your point? You’re not refuting or rebutting anything I said by pointing that out. I’m not playing racial cheerleader here trying to win points for my “side.” I gladly admit negative facts on either side of the debate.

    Your argument style seems to be to just randomly vomit out as many antiblack facts as you can regardless of whether they’re relevant to the discussion at hand or logically follow the debate thread in hopes that something will stick and you’ll score a point.

    Like


  546. @ dougjnn

    “Used to being sheltered, are you, from any charges of racism by a heavily black environment or the ultra PC university leftist dogma, carried over as sub text by the media, that blacks can’t be racist?”
    Not at all. I’ve spent quite a bit of time in small-town America, and the people I’ve known, white people, liked me just fine. I’m not a racist, and most sensible people, ie, not whiny little girls who can’t handle some debate, reserve those terms for people who actually deserve them. 😉

    Like


  547. Chloe —

    I can say this because I watch a whole lotta CourtTv, which features real criminal cases, not like CSI, and nine out of ten of them are white.

    That’s entirely because that’s what the large majority of their audience wants to see — cases involving whites. In the real world, blacks make up about half of the prison population of the US, even though they’re 1/8 of the total population.

    Similarly, did you know that the popular and long running series “Law and Order”, which has been so popular as to spin off related series, e.g. “Criminal Intent” (or basically white male sexual depravity, detecting it and prosecuting it) in it’s first season featured a much more representative cross section of typical Manhattan criminal court cases, which of course involved a lot of black, Dominican and Puerto Rican drug murders, serious injury domestic violence, armed robberies, muggings resulting in serious injury, and the like? Ratings were poor. Focus groups indicated interest in the format of the show, but not in the criminals. Next season they went to most white defendants and often higher end ones. Ratings soared. The show’s stuck with that ever since, despite it being wildly unrepresentative of the more serious crime (or all crime) dockets in Manhattan criminal court.

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  548. this debate over black crime will evaporate when white people are desperate and start turning to crime as well. What gets me is how black people go out of their way to point out how criminal white people can be. Well, I don’t deny that, but is that what you really want?

    The black minority in this country should be very, very happy that white folks are still well-behaved. If there’s massive white crime, which has happened before, black folks are going to feel pretty sorry about the result.

    Might as well hope whitey keeps behaving well, cuz if he doesn’t you’re all screwed.

    Like


  549. on March 11, 2009 at 8:36 pm Gunslingergregi

    Chloe
    “I’m not sure how familiar you are with black culture, but let me share something with you. Somebody on this blog once inquired as to why there were no white women on this blog.”

    Disregarded the white woman on this blog as people way earlier.

    Like


  550. Anyway Gunslinger, the point was not whether blacks were committing a MUCH higher rate of crime than whites. I already pointed out they were. I was responding to your claim that blacks are so consumed with such hatred for whites that they are going out of their way to target them specifically for revenge crimes. If that was the case a disproportionate amount of their victims wouldn’t be black. Whites make up 78% of the population but less than 55% of the black criminals’ murder victims. So this notion that blacks are targeting whites more for crimes is not wrong.

    I know you have problems keeping on track and following trains of thought, so let me remind you not to bother pointing out again that blacks commit more crimes than whites. I already made that exact same point and it’s irrelevant to backing up your claim that they are deliberately targeting whites more in their crimes.

    Like


  551. Chloe–

    Note that I didn’t charge you with being racist Chloe.

    (I haven’t read all your comments but the ones I have didn’t strike me so, particularly. Not trying hard to be fair all the time either.)

    What I was reacting to was the notion that it was obviously upside down, topsy turvey, that someone might think YOU, a black woman, racist.

    Like


  552. on March 11, 2009 at 8:38 pm Cannon's Canon

    “I won’t be dealing with GS on this topic again”

    But it’s up $20 this week!

    Like


  553. That’s a great point Welmer.

    Like


  554. on March 11, 2009 at 8:42 pm Gunslingergregi

    funnily enough Chloe I didn’t call you a racist I said you hate white people. You have used the word racist more than ten times in this thread though.

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  555. So this notion that blacks are targeting whites more for crimes is not wrong.

    That sentence should have read “So this notion that blacks are targeting whites more for crimes is not true.”

    Like


  556. Chloe —

    Somebody on this blog once inquired as to why there were no white women on this blog.

    There have been. Quite a lot. At times they’ve made up maybe 1/3 of the comments, and often a quarter or fifth. They tend to come and go after a month or three. Though some stay for months and months and months. Some, like Sara, stay forever. Others pop back in with some regularity.

    Lately though the comments on this blog have become MUCH more heated. I think that’s mostly due to Obsidian’s total black sexual supremacy shtick, but also due to Roissy started, but by me and others continued and amplified, anti-marriage passions (because of feminist American divorce law, and media messages on the correct roles in mariage). Though that was principally on only one (very, very long) thread.

    I think it would do this blog good if we all became a lot less heated. I will do my part if, e.g., Obsidian will do his.

    Of course this is as I see it.

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  557. on March 11, 2009 at 8:58 pm Gunslingergregi

    “on March 11, 2009 at 8:44 pm T. AKA Ricky Raw
    So this notion that blacks are targeting whites more for crimes is not wrong.

    That sentence should have read “So this notion that blacks are targeting whites more for crimes is not true.””

    Well no it is true.

    Blacks killing whites two to one for whites killing blacks.

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  558. Chloe —

    I thought white people hated it when people throw those terms [such as racist or supremacist] around so loosely, and now you’re throwing them at us?

    I didn’t charge Obsidian claiming un-nuanced (not dressed up to you I guess Chloe) black sexual supremacism loosely. In fact I gave him a lot of benefit of the doubt. But thread after thread, post after post, he kept it up. I ignored if forever. Others didn’t. It’s what raised the temperature, and motivated some to be rather crude and rude.

    I could quote dozens of passages from him. I have quoted a few, up thread (I think) and back post (I’m sure).

    Like


  559. dougjnn,

    From the context, it seemed like they were asking why there weren’t any white women on posting regularly at that time, not whether there had ever been any white women. At least that’s how I took it.

    About all the race stuff, you have to expect people to defend themselves. You keep denying it, but you did, in fact, use statistics to explain why black people are stupid. Black people will take umbrage with that.

    When black people say equally derogatory things, like ‘white devil’, using slavery and colonialism as evidence, I tell them that’s not fair, because I’ve known several white people who weren’t, in fact, devils.

    So, I guess what I’m saying is, treat people how you expect to be treated, and it’ll all work out.

    Like


  560. on March 11, 2009 at 9:05 pm Gunslingergregi

    Wait that was if they were equal in population now lets add in the 13 percent population vs 87 percent which is not actually how it works out for whites but ok.

    Blacks are killing whites 15.32 times more than whites are killing blacks. Dam. Now that is a difference.

    Like


  561. Well no it is true.

    Blacks killing whites two to one for whites killing blacks.

    Oh God. You really can’t follow an argument can you?

    What you are pointing out is whether more blacks kill whites than vice versa. Yes, they do. I said so NUMEROUS TIMES already. Reread my comments. My point is that blacks also kill more blacks than whites do. They commit more crime in general against both blacks AND whites.

    But among the victims of black crime, both black and white, the black criminals disproportionately target fellow blacks more than they target whites. The percentage of white victims much lower than the percentage of whites in the general population.

    Can you understand my point now?

    Like


  562. @ dougjnn

    “I didn’t charge Obsidian claiming un-nuanced (not dressed up to you I guess Chloe) black sexual supremacism loosely. In fact I gave him a lot of benefit of the doubt. But thread after thread, post after post, he kept it up.”

    I didn’t know you meant black sexual supremacy, specifically. Well, in that case, I could understand how that might bother you. Then again, all I ever see here is post after post about white sexual supremacy, ie, our girls are hotter, so I guess we’re both offended.

    Like


  563. Chloe —

    Also, let me just say, I love how my post sent you into a tizzy about ‘circling the black wagons’ and ’savages.’

    This response to PA is pure female emotional irrational crap.

    Stuff it. Argue with logic and facts or shut the f*ck up.

    Like


  564. on March 11, 2009 at 9:13 pm Gunslingergregi

    Which is what always fucked with my head why did black people grow up hating whites yet white people did not grow up hating blacks. Putting together the reality of white and blacks living together vs what I have been told in the media, equal opportunity classes in the army, gender equality classes, and hate group classes. They actually had white groups in the class as examples of hate groups. Every equal opportunity person I had in a unit was black. This is what I still don’t get.

    Like


  565. This is what I still don’t get.

    After debating you for just this short amount of time and seeing how poorly your mind works, I suspect there’s a lot of things in general you don’t get.

    It’s like you have keyboard tourette’s or something.

    Like


  566. on March 11, 2009 at 9:20 pm Gunslingergregi

    You can’t follow an argument Sir,

    Yes but I want to point out that blacks are targeting whites more than whites are targeting blacks waaaayyyyyy more. So why are whites being indoctrinated with the bullshit crap.

    Blacks are killing whites 15.32 times more than whites are killing blacks.

    So why do blacks like Chloe think they can come up with some utter bullshit about how they feel safer in the ghetto because a white serial killer might kill them outside ghetto. Why lie. Just face the truth. I am debunking the arguments that came up earlier.

    Like


  567. I am debunking the arguments that came up earlier.

    So you’re responding to me by ignoring what I was talking about and instead using points I had already made and agreed with…in order to debunk arguments that came up earlier from OTHER PEOPLE? Huh?

    Is this the Bizarro world of debating? Seriously, what is wrong with you? Are you normally this irrational or does this topic make you so emotional you can’t think logically?

    Like


  568. on March 11, 2009 at 9:25 pm Gunslingergregi

    And Ricky you placed yourself on the side of Obsid and Chloe on this debate I am sorry that you chose such poor debaters and an unwinnable position. Give you extra credit for trying to steer it away from reality though and do the usual but there black thing. Let them stand on there own two feet or help them stand up but don’t coddle them like they are not human beings capable of owning up to the bullshit that spews from there mouths.

    Like


  569. Chloe —

    I didn’t know you meant black sexual supremacy, specifically.

    If you didn’t know that, then that’s because you didn’t read what I said, but rather only what struck you as a hot button. The very first time I said the word “supremacy” or I said exactly that, his claim of black sexual supremacy.

    Like


  570. Gunslinger asks, “Go ahead Kthula whatcha got.”

    A Black female friend from high school who was raped by two White guys in her school while she was passed out drunk. This was in Utah.

    Another Black female student of a Kung Fu class I visited in Utah…took up the art because she’d been raped by a guy. I didn’t ask what color he was, but someone else did: White.

    Then there are the countless incidents I’ve been told of by friends of varying ethnicities. Apparently poor White guys are as violent as poor Black guys on average…go figure.

    I would be jealous of the apparent luxury you’ve had to be unaware of that, but I’m too nietzschean. I’m stronger for the things I’ve learned, and better prepared.

    Personal stories…I prefer to avoid those. It’s a little too close to home for me to tolerate someone’s insensitive responses…and we know that some of the White men posting here can be pretty insensitive.

    …and it’s because of that insensitivity that some of us (non Whites) get the impression that you’re devils. Even when you have an advantage, it’s not good enough until you get blood, and even then it’s still not enough so you cannibalize each other.

    This is the cultural reality of your people. You’ve worked very hard to make everyone else in the world understand that you’re devils (even though you’re just people, you seem to like that image alot).

    Now you’re trying to sell your people as less violent.

    Nobody’s going to fall for that so long as the U.S. can’t even send soldiers anywhere without someone getting ass raped, and Serbia definitely didn’t pull off their pale Christian jihad so cleanly either. White people scare people, and for good reason.

    I don’t hate White people more than I dislike most humans in general, but the truth is that y’all have the image of being pretty cold blooded. Folks were shocked when they heard about African warlords hacking off limbs and such.

    Nobody was surprised by what happened in Kossovo.

    Like


  571. Gunslinger also asks, “So why do blacks like Chloe think they can come up with some utter bullshit about how they feel safer in the ghetto because a white serial killer might kill them outside ghetto. Why lie. Just face the truth.”

    What Chloe may have trouble articulating, and the deeper truth is that it’s not serial killers we worry about.

    We worry about being vulnerable to guys like the “normal” White guys we meet at work and school or other places who, upon being told “no” react with actual anger.

    The serial killers are something else. Normal White guys scare us because they think we’re inferior and ugly, but still want to fuck us. So their approach is often threatening.

    Not all White guys come out like that, but it only takes meeting one like that to scare you, possibly for life. Someone who thinks I’m an inferior warpig should not try to get into my pants thinking I’m obligated to give him some because an inferior ugly woman shouldn’t have any right to self respect.

    *That* is what we’re afraid of…and that is pretty normal.

    Like


  572. Obsidian —

    Science has NEVER been free of politics.

    That’s a very corrosive statement, when said so simply, without qualification.

    Science is one of the best things we have going in our civilization. It’s important to not work towards ruining it.

    It’s always a little ruined, yes. But lets not push in the wrong direction.

    First of all, the pure model of science is ENTIRELY free of politics. At least once you get down to doing the science.

    Politics always enters into what’s funded and what isn’t, or at least it always wants to, and tends to, and that tendency must be fought.

    Even beyond the level of money, what scientists themselves want to study is influenced by their politics. This is particularly true in the social sciences, but almost not at all in physics or math or chemistry. A little in biology and genetics. it has to do with how political the outcome might be.

    Nonetheless, the important thing is allowing all reasonable scientific flowers to bloom. This does take some money. Really important, paradigm changing science has never been closely correlated with how many scientists are working in that area or especially on that problem. Speaking crudely, the large majority of scientists do fairly useless, me too stuff. What’s all important are the diamonds in the ruff. What’s important in a science system, including it’s funding, is to let them arise and be discovered.

    Now, what I meant by the pure model of science not being political is that the scientific method is not, by design. It’s not political or more broadly emotional. At all. I’m talking about the nature of scientific experiment and proof, and replicated proof. Of course there’s always corruption, and in the social sciences especially soft and sometimes hard corruption is an ever present danger.

    In all sciences these days, but especially in the social sciences, the direction of the corruption pull is heavily towards the left. Those with rightist or realist bent are a small minority. But have been uncovering a lot of gold, because, well, it was un-plowed ground for quite a while, so to speak.

    Like


  573. on March 11, 2009 at 9:43 pm Dave from Hawaii

    The following rant is based on having read this entire thread and watching the Blacks and Whites go back forth on this racial issue…

    Blacks commit more crimes on average than whites? Statistically undeniable.

    Guess what folks, it’s not a genetic trait of inferiority or savagery.

    It’s not even race based.

    Why are Blacks overwhelmingly criminally-prone in America today?

    Look no further than the out-of-wedlock birthrates.

    Have no fear all you black and white supremacists…

    …the rise in white divorce (or any other race for that matter), single mother households and acceptance of bastardy and no cultural restraints on female sexual behavior, it is only a matter of time before the breakdown of the family across all races in this country manifests itself in the crime rates and prison populations.

    The Black population was the American canary in the coalmine.

    The social engineers that gave us the wonders of feminism began there experiment on the black community by implementing the welfare state and putting a planned parenthood abortion mill in every single black community to promote promiscuity…these are all the actions that have given us the problems of an entire criminal class of Blacks.

    Replacing the father with the Government, liberating the black woman from dependency on men, the destruction of marriage and the two parent family as the primary means of socializing young men and women were all instrumental in creating the large criminal class of Black America we see today.

    Read: The Black Family: 40 Years of Lies

    America is too hung up on focusing on race.

    Let me tell you, here in Hawaii, where the Blacks are a very, very small minority, we certainly have a segment of the population that is largely a criminal class. We have ghetto areas of rampant crime – whole areas of the island where most middle and upper class folks don’t dare to go…and it’s certainly not confined to any particular racial category. Samoans, Hawaiians, Filipinos, Japanese, Chinese or White…we have plenty of criminals of all racial classes here.

    The common denominator of the areas of this state that have rampant crime and social pathology?

    Communities full of welfare dependent, single-mother households.

    Like


  574. on March 11, 2009 at 9:43 pm Gunslingergregi

    “White people scare people, and for good reason.

    I don’t hate White people more than I dislike most humans in general, but the truth is that y’all have the image of being pretty cold blooded. Folks were shocked when they heard about African warlords hacking off limbs and such.

    Nobody was surprised by what happened in Kossovo.”

    See it is shit like this that is what has been going on. People surprized by african warlords choping off limbs on what planet would that be.

    Like


  575. I am sorry that you chose such poor debaters and an unwinnable position.

    The problem is, my position was never that blacks don’t commit crime at a higher rate than blacks. I keep admitting they do and you keep responding by bringing up the exact same thing I am saying as if you are somehow refuting a position of mine. I’m sorry you lack simple reading comprehension skills.

    My position is that your claim of whites being targeted at a higher rate by blacks because of some all-consuming anti-white hatred is erroneous. Whites are 78% of the population but are less than 55% of the victims of murder. Blacks are 12% of the population but make of a whopping 45% of the victims of murder.

    So I repeat, I am not engaging in the argument about whether blacks kill whites more than whites kill blacks in America. I fully admit that they do (and this has to be the fifth time or more by now I have said this). My position is that your claims of whites bearing the brunt of this black crime wave are erroneous, as shown by the statistics I’ve cited.

    Like


  576. dougjnn,

    When replying to “pure female emotional irrational crap” like this,

    “Go ahead into the circling of black wagons. Defend the Carr brothers of Wichita or the Knoxville savages.”

    it’s sometimes appropriate to respond in kind. (oooh, “savages”!!) I have an excuse, I’m a girl. What’s his? The only logical thing he said was, google it.

    Like


  577. on March 11, 2009 at 9:53 pm Gunslingergregi

    “We worry about being vulnerable to guys like the “normal” White guys we meet at work and school or other places who, upon being told “no” react with actual anger.

    The serial killers are something else. Normal White guys scare us because they think we’re inferior and ugly, but still want to fuck us. So their approach is often threatening.”

    So you are saying your biggest fear is of getting raped by a white man?

    Like


  578. on March 11, 2009 at 9:55 pm Gunslingergregi

    Your position was that Obsidian was cool with whatever he had to say other people where not.

    Like


  579. dougjnn,

    “If you didn’t know that, then that’s because you didn’t read what I said, but rather only what struck you as a hot button.”
    You’re right. I’m finishing up Michener’s ‘Centennial’ while I try to follow this discussion, so I’m very in and out.

    Like


  580. on March 11, 2009 at 10:06 pm Gunslingergregi

    “…and it’s because of that insensitivity that some of us (non Whites) get the impression that you’re devils. ”

    It is from physical reality that I get the impression that black people dislike white people.

    Like


  581. Your position was that Obsidian was cool with whatever he had to say other people where not.

    I never said that. In fact, I disagreed with Obsidian’s view about how attractive white men find black women. You can see it in this comments thread. I personally think white men and black women on average are not attracted to each other all that much unless faced with an extremely attractive (for the white male) or extremely successful/attractive (for the black female) exception.

    Because you think in terms of white supremacy, you assume everyone who disagrees with you must be a black supremacist and argue accordingly, regardless of what the person is actually saying.

    Like


  582. Obsidian

    Forgot to address your question about why it seems that Black Men tend to have sex more w/Women of differing races than White Men, apparently.

    Apparently? Rubbish again.

    White men have sex with all races in large numbers. They couple with E Asians way more than black men do. It seems neither black men or E.Asian women are attracted to each other much (of course you can find some who are). It’s just that white men are way less attracted to black women, than black men are to white women.

    Like


  583. Gunslinger asks, “See it is shit like this that is what has been going on. People surprized by african warlords choping off limbs on what planet would that be.”

    Earth…outside of the bubble you apparently live in.

    Some things were obviously caused by the results of colonialism, and some things come out of nowhere as particularly bizarre.

    Since nothing really comes out of nowhere, it was pretty easy to track a line from the limbs to the diamonds.

    The way it was reported at first seemed random…same with the child soldiers thing. They were viewed as “crazy things Africans do”.

    …but then you see similar things happening in Afghanistan and other places across Asia and South America.

    Then after awhile you see that the supposed help the U.S. and other western countries extends to the victims is almost none, and that the sources of the armed conflicts are quite often western businesses.

    So at the root of much of this African and Asian craziness is European/American money, though sometimes it is drug money.

    A professor friend of mine who’s a big history and economy buff says that some conflicts are kept going by arms dealers just to keep them in business and feature their products. He says the Aza thing recently here was like a fatal commercial.

    Like


  584. on March 11, 2009 at 10:21 pm Gunslingergregi

    “on March 11, 2009 at 10:08 pm T. AKA Ricky Raw
    Your position was that Obsidian was cool with whatever he had to say other people where not.

    I never said that. In fact, I disagreed with Obsidian’s view about how attractive white men find black women. You can see it in this comments thread. I personally think white men and black women on average are not attracted to each other all that much unless faced with an extremely attractive (for the white male) or extremely successful/attractive (for the black female) exception.

    Because you think in terms of white supremacy, you assume everyone who disagrees with you must be a black supremacist and argue accordingly, regardless of what the person is actually saying.”

    Yet when I went to a club black woman were just coming and sitting at my table and staring at me like I was fresh meat. I was not financially rich then or in shape. Let me do the public service if a white man finds black woman attractive just go to your local all black club and just sit there don’t kick any game just let the woman lead you to her car. Or when you get to the parking lot and your in a car with another woman and they are still staring at you if that one looks better you could probably just get out and go into the other ones car. That is how amazed black woman are when a white man shows up at there club. That is how few times that has to happen.

    Like


  585. on March 11, 2009 at 10:33 pm Gunslingergregi

    I look at what people write as well and when everything they write has to include the word black and better than. I conclude that they are black supremacist. You obviously didn’t follow my comment as I stated blacks were better at killing white people than whites were at killing black people.

    Like


  586. on March 11, 2009 at 10:34 pm Gunslingergregi

    Blacks were better at beating in groups than white people were beating black people in groups. I try to even it out.

    Like


  587. on March 11, 2009 at 10:37 pm Gunslingergregi

    I also agree that black men are better at raping white woman than white men are at raping black woman.

    Like


  588. the SWPL types are the real enemy. Of both blacks and whites.

    I have a safe place in the SWPL world. I get a college degree, and they become my friends, and I can live with them and marry them. There is no safe place for me in the world of racism.

    No, I certainly don’t think most black people are stupid.

    Yet, you believe in a theory that points out that the average black person is stupid compared to the average white person.

    Like


  589. You obviously didn’t follow my comment as I stated blacks were better at killing white people than whites were at killing black people.

    *sigh* Yes I did follow it. AND I AGREED WITH IT. And moved onto another topic. And because either you couldn’t comprehend or refute that new topic, you just kept repeating the earlier point, the one I already agreed with OVER AND OVER instead of addressing the new one. Geez.

    Yet when I went to a club black woman were just coming and sitting at my table and staring at me like I was fresh meat. I was not financially rich then or in shape. Let me do the public service if a white man finds black woman attractive just go to your local all black club and just sit there don’t kick any game just let the woman lead you to her car. Or when you get to the parking lot and your in a car with another woman and they are still staring at you if that one looks better you could probably just get out and go into the other ones car. That is how amazed black woman are when a white man shows up at there club. That is how few times that has to happen.

    Dude, just read this:

    http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/single-female-seeking-same-race-male/

    Black chicks don’t like white men all that much, just like white men aren’t often that crazy about them. Stats show it seems to be mutual. I don’t get it, you keep trumpeting how white men aren’t by and large into black women, and I agree, but you get miffed at the suggestion that the feeling is mutual?

    Like


  590. on March 11, 2009 at 10:47 pm tokyojesusfist

    Ktulah

    Nobody’s going to fall for that so long as the U.S. can’t even send soldiers anywhere without someone getting ass raped.

    How exactly do you expect an organization as large as the US military to be free of rapists? It’s impossible. Gather enough people and you’ll be sure to find bad apples among them. You might as well say “nobody’s going to fall for that as long as there are criminals in the US.”

    and Serbia definitely didn’t pull off their pale Christian jihad so cleanly either.

    If you’re going to argue that white people are spawns of Satan because of that, then you should be complaining about black people instead. How many genocides and atrocities have occured, and continue to occur, in Africa? What sort of things are black people up to in, say, South Africa? And what about the fact that NATO intervened in the Kosovo war?

    What is your point anyway?

    White people scare people, and for good reason.

    Scare who? I’ve heard the Japanese can be intimidated by foreigners, including white ones, but that’s about all the fear the White Devil seems to be able to inspire in people.

    I don’t hate White people more than I dislike most humans in general, but the truth is that y’all have the image of being pretty cold blooded.

    It is Western civilization that introduced democracy, human rights, equality, liberty and other nice things to most of the world. Also, most Westerners today are crybaby liberals who wouldn’t even dream of doing anything “cold blooded.”

    Folks were shocked when they heard about African warlords hacking off limbs and such. Nobody was surprised by what happened in Kossovo.

    Who would these “folks” be? Everyone knows that Africa is Africa, and that hacking off limbs over there is business as usual. I’ve never heard of people being shocked by Africa yet unsuprised by Kosovo. You’re either deliberately distorting reality to suit your weird racial agenda, or talking to some very strange and misinformed people.

    Like


  591. Okay Gunslinger, I’m done. You’re just too scatterbrained to stay on topic not bright enough to grasp simple points, you have the attention span of a flea and all the argumentation skills of a parrot. I feel like your dumbness will start to rub off on me if I continue on this path.

    Like


  592. Gunslinger asks, “So you are saying your biggest fear is of getting raped by a white man?”

    No, my biggest fear is being kept alive in a permanently vegetative state or some other awful existence.

    Getting raped…I don’t care what color the guy is. It’s not something I’d like to happen.

    Thankfully, I’m a pretty sturdy girl, and I have the good sense to understand the need for male protection in potentially bad situations.

    What I fear more than being raped though, is being befriended and getting involved with sheeple of any color or culture.

    To me, the only “races” that matter are independent thinkers and sheeple…and I don’t owe sheeple my blood or pussy, no matter what color they are.

    So when considering an intercultural relationship, if the guy doesn’t show clear signs of being independent, I don’t care of he’s Djimon Honsou’s pale twin. I’m not going there.

    …but I don’t go there with Black sheeple either.

    When I’m talking about what Black women fear or hate about White men, I’m speaking in general terms because race apparently matters to people enough to make the concerns real. To me personally though, the idea of being touched by anybody who can’t think their way out of color is disgusting. Color is so not the issue for me.

    Though I wouldn’t like for it to happen, I could live with being raped by an independent thinker, if I knew that’s what he was, more easily than I could look in the mirror after having sex with a sheeperson.

    I’ve had that Crying Game like moment twice in my life during my overly nice phase.

    Never again.

    Like


  593. All —

    I just ran into this while trying to figure out what VAWA, used by M. Blowhard up thread, means. At urban dictionary I found (probably only tangentially related, but pithy nonetheless):

    Feminism 299 up, 81 down love ithate it

    Feminism is a politically correct, federally funded special interest hate group

    LOL

    Like


  594. I am not surprised that the usual suspects who comment on this blog haven’t come out and condemned Rihanna for rushing back into the arms of Brown. The sound of silence is deafening…

    SMH
    I guess this was a hint for me.

    Like


  595. on March 11, 2009 at 10:59 pm Gunslingergregi

    I am not miffed. I am relaying personnal experience and lurker has also that black woman are not hard to get. Obsidian was trying before to say that somehow it was because black woman were turning down white men who wanted them or chloe was getting hit on all the time by white men. Or Kthuntla’s fear of maybe being raped by a white man. One thing the black people that talk about being black seem to have in common is some obsession with white men or woman having something to do with them sexually. Doing a service to all the white men that do not speak up that if you want black just go to a black club more than likely you will be a celebrity.

    Eminem had it “you all act like you never seen a white person before jaws all on the floor”

    This is what it will be like. Highly suggested for some white men to try it and come back and let us know what happened. Remember use no game at all. In fact don’t even talk to them. Just dance a little sit at the table.

    Like


  596. If Rihanna is with Chris again, she did it under duress. I’m sure every Black woman rerading this knows what I’m talking about too.

    ” You know it’s hard for a brother”
    ” you gonna ruin this brother’s life”
    ” It so hard for Black men”
    “sister you suppose to have our back”
    blah blah blah

    It’s the reason Kerry Washington is/was the only Black celebrity to speak out against Chris Brown.

    Like


  597. Gunslinger, whores go for money.

    White guys who go to Black clubs, who aren’t with a group of Black guys who are obviously his friends, are usually pegged as johns looking for hoes.

    That you get swamped by low quality women is no surprise.

    Like


  598. on March 11, 2009 at 11:03 pm tokyojesusfist

    Ktulah

    Though I wouldn’t like for it to happen, I could live with being raped by an independent thinker, if I knew that’s what he was, more easily than I could look in the mirror after having sex with a sheeperson.

    All aboard the crazy train! Last stop: Ktulah.

    I can only imagine how a rape victim would react to reading this.

    Like


  599. GunsleriOne thing the black people that talk about being black seem to have in common is some obsession with white men or woman having something to do with them sexually

    Not Black women.

    Like


  600. SMH

    Damn I been gone for a week and some people are still sneaking in race when this post has nothing to do with race.

    Like


  601. black people would not harbor the kind of hate and envy of whites that so many do

    If one believes in race realism, then the problem at hand is that under “Rightist” control, you’d still have disproportionate numbers of black arrested from crimes, in low paying positions, or not in high ranking positions which can lead to the hate and envy of whites that you fear*. For all intents and purposes, the only way that you’re going to get rid of any racial animus is not to simply segregate the races, but to eliminate the other race. Segregation on a local or global scale just creates even more antagonism**, but elimination simply gets rid of the jealous person.

    Kerry Washington

    She’s kinda pretty.🙂

    *Does David Alexander hate and envy whites?

    **Despite buying African slaves, nearly a century of African colonialism, and questionable resource extraction by Western companies, we’ve still managed to avoid African terrorism…

    Like


  602. on March 11, 2009 at 11:11 pm Gunslingergregi

    Read up thread noir and you will see the obsession.

    Like


  603. tokyojesusfist – crushing refutation of kthulah!

    Nicely done.

    Like


  604. excellent point DA re African terrorism. Althought there are African terrorits but they are terrortis for Islam.

    Like


  605. on March 11, 2009 at 11:20 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea dam my brain was hurting from so much one sided drivel.

    Like


  606. OK, a few thoughts.

    On the issue of Black Crime against Whites: because this is clearly a major area of concern for my White brothers in the forum, no matter how real or perceived the actual issue is, and which in itself is a window on the nature of Race in our country. I want to say that, specifically addressing the rape issue, that Andrew Hacker, who is White, took this up in his book Two Nations; he suggested that the White Woman represented not only the enduring standard of beuaty in America, but also the White Man’s most cherished prize. Defiling her then, by way of rape, is more than just merely a crime of violence; it becomes a profoundly political act.

    Hacker goes on to quote Black Panther Bobby Seals (I believe it was him, if I got the name wrong, my bad) in his book Soul on Ice.

    Now, of course, rape does have sexual elements involved, and here many White guys in the forum will take that as evidence that Black Men overall secretely covet White Women over and above Black Women. However, when one considers the fact that Black Women endure sexual violent crimes at least on a par with if not exceeding that of White Women at the hands of Black Men, my White Brothers will have to do a bit of contorting themselves to reconcile all of this.

    On the question of Black criminals “targeting” White folks-again, I do think there’s something to be said for the fact that being White still means something in America; you have an instant leg up in almost every way. Now, of course, there are many poor Whites, and many wealthy Blacks; but in the main, in the aggregate, what I’m saying holds true-being White means having a shot at a better life than being Black.

    In no way do I want to give the impression that I’m condoning or excusing the criminal acts on the part of my brethren; quite the contrary. Criminal activity cannot be tolerated, and should they be proven to have commited said acts, they should be punished harshly.

    As to my own motivations for broaching racial topics…

    We have to keep in mind, that this venue has been a hotbed for human biodiversity types since Day One; Roissy himself has on his blogroll several forums that specializes in this. So there have been quite a few discussions where racial differences and the like have come up long before I knew anything about this place.

    What I’m doing though, is putting a human and yes, dark face, on the many discussions that take place in the abstract; most of the White posters here have any real and sustained contact w/Blacks, yet feel completely comfortable to mae sweping generalizations about them/us, usually of a perjorative nature, for example the recent unwarranted attacks on Black Women.

    I am posing a real challenge to the notions being presented by those who put themselves out there as amatuer HBDers; instead of skeet shooting, they now will have to acutally engage a live and very agile, target. Their assumptions will be challenged, their notions and ideas deeply questioned and their glaring contradictions put right before their faces for further investigation and discussion.

    And, if this thread is any indication, quite a few White guys don’t like having their cradle rocked.😉

    I am not a racist, nor am I a supremacist. What I am is very proud of my race ad the singularly unique contribution we have made to the American Enterprise, often in spite of our White Brothers. Indeed, African Americans have shown a tolerance and a love of others that other groups around the world don’t seem capable of. Serbia and Kosovo, Israel and Palestine, the varied tribal warfare in my ancsestral homeland Africa, these people cannot get past their feelings of hatred. African Americans have. There is no record of visiting racially motivated violence on Whites in the manner that the KKK did on Blacks, and that’s just for starters. Which only makes charges of “racism” on the part of some Whites, quite interesting to me.

    For those who bemoan my supposedly frequent references to race, get used to it-you live in the most racially diverse nation in the world. It is indeliably stamped into our collective DNA. It is who and what we are, still struggling to understand ourselves. And if you think it has no bearing with regard to Game, Love & Sex, you really have been spending an inordinate amount of time under a rock.

    Finally, addressing the issue of affirmative action-now we get to the good stuff. As I said earlier, I’ve never bought into Ward Connerly-style “highbrow” arguments against AA-the real deal is that White folks were looking out for their interests. Good-so am I. America has always been a place where different groups look out for what’s best for them-it only becomes problematic when Black folks openly declare their right to do so as well.

    Although in principle I’m against Affirmative Action, in truth, quite frankly, I do not trust Whites enough to be fair in giving me and my brethren a fair shake. We ain’t there yet. So AA is a necessary evil that we’ll have to endure a bit longer. So long as we remain separate groups looking out for me and mine, we’ll need things like AA to make sure that me and mine get our fair share of the American pie.

    If nothing else, I greatly enjoyed this discussion, and am looking forward to many such discussions. Blacks and Whites need to learn to actually talk TO each other, and that means we gonna be mad at each other a lot. Enlightenment and progress is a messy affair. Most things worth doing in life, often is.

    The Obsidian

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  607. on March 11, 2009 at 11:31 pm Gunslingergregi

    Kthula
    “””on March 11, 2009 at 11:03 pm Kthulah
    Gunslinger, whores go for money.

    White guys who go to Black clubs, who aren’t with a group of Black guys who are obviously his friends, are usually pegged as johns looking for hoes.”

    That you get swamped by low quality women is no surprise.”

    So now the black guys I was with were obviously not my friends because of what happened. I did not offer drinks or money to these woman. I was surprized to be taken to an all black club but in life sometimes shit happens. Are you also saying that hoes looking for men are in all black clubs? Or are these hoes just looking for white guys in a club that is all black but me?

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  608. Chloe —

    No, they’re [married people who are killed by an initially unknown someone] usually w/w, which is why the police give the survivng spouse, male or female, the benefit of the doubt.

    What planet are you living on? It is a truism among the police all across the country, that if a married or living together person is murdered by a not immediately known or obvious person, the prime suspect is the spouse or significant other. That cuts across all races. Now if it’s a man and he’s thought to be in or working for the mafia, that becomes something a bit different, and so on. But always the spouse is a leading candidate, to begin with.

    Don’t believe me? Google it. I haven’t, but it’s so clear that I have no doubt about what you’ll find.

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  609. T aka Rickey RAW —

    A black stereotype would not be being 40 and not starting a family. It would be being 40, having tons of kids everywhere out of wedlock with different women and not taking care of them. Being 40, having a steady job, not being a criminal or in jail and choosing to be single and not have kids is not a black stereotype, sorry.

    Yuup.

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  610. Nick Cannon’s Cannon in your Mouth:

    “Chuck Schumer:

    Thank you for replying before I finally passed out tonight. Your sophistry rivals the absent Chic Noir. My dreams are that much sweeter with your flaccid counterpoints in play.”

    I see I’ve been missed.

    @Thursday- Emaunela de Paula is a meduim complected blk woman. She and I share the very same skin color. Hallie Berry looks any old light-skinned black woman. Rihanna and Beyonce are not mixed.

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  611. Vladamir —

    (BTW, this blog definitely needs a preview for comments.)

    I can see why you’d want that, and I’d like to cure the same problem.

    However, especially for a high comment volume blog, that places HUGE time burdens on the blogger, i.e. Roissy. His commitment to weekdaily blogging with high intelligence and excellent writing is more than burden enough.

    A better solution would be banning people. After the fact is way easier. But I’d make it a short temp. ban to begin with. After warning. And not too often used. But always out there.

    Actually I hope the comments to this blog calm down. They really haven’t needed something like that until recently. Hopefully they won’t again soon.

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  612. on March 11, 2009 at 11:49 pm Gunslingergregi

    How many blacks did the kkk kill?

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  613. dougjnn:

    I can see why you’d want that, and I’d like to cure the same problem.

    Oh, I just had in mind a “preview” option where you could check the formatting of your comment, to prevent errors in HTML tags. I wouldn’t support censoring comments in any way, except perhaps for the most persistent trolls.

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  614. dougjn said I mean on a white woman scale, which makes most black women, especially big ones, hyper aggressive. Not so much chic noir types, necessarily. Feminists have