I purposely chose an example of bad game in yesterday’s post in the interest of seeing how you would salvage a losing situation. And yes, for those who are wondering, the scenario happened in reality exactly as I described it.
I was glad to see so many commenters correctly identify my pickup scenario as an example of bad game and recognize the uselessness of getting an email as a consolation prize. I was also heartened by how many of you recommended “caveman game” as a solution, and your accurate interpretation of her actions as those of a girl who wanted the McLovin sooner rather than later. The lessons here are taking hold.
Here is a selection of answers from the comments:
Chuck (and many other commenters) wrote:
Do nothing. Go find another woman to game.
This cop-out is becoming a little too ubiquitous in the pickup community. Yes, cutting your losses to hit on fresh meat is certainly better than handicapping yourself with the stink of beta by recklessly chasing after a cold target, but are we men of vision or foot soldiers in the long slog through life? Doing nothing is the reflex of a reformed beta — a greater beta. He knows well enough to refrain from humiliating himself. But an alpha is better than that. He will sometimes reach for the brass ring; for him, doing nothing isn’t always the acceptable response. He takes risks; calculated, informed risks, sure, but risks nonetheless.
Grade: B- (for beta steps)
Antonio wrote:
Since you are mis-hearing her email address try making fun of it, loudly
example:
She says:
“tiffanyAmberTheisen@yahoo”You say:
“tiffanyAfterBacon!?!”
This is an example of Clever Game. I like Clever Game. It’s been good to me. But its application is limited. In a noisy environment with a target on the move (taking steps backwards) a clever riposte is as likely to earn you a puzzled look from the girl as it is her number. Cleverness is the dance of the subtle. In a rapidly fading pickup attempt, you need more oomph. Remember, in her eyes, you passed none of her tests the way she wanted you to pass them.
Grade: C
razorback wrote:
“You can’t walk away from me just like that. I’m (name)..”
There’s good caveman game, and then there’s less good caveman game. The problem with this salvage operation is you have drawn attention to her negative actions. Never remind a girl that she is
a. walking away from you
b. giving you a hard time
c. acting like a bitch
d. ignoring you
It will only reinforce her unflattering impression of you.
Grade: D
DF wrote:
A woman that signals that much raw sensuality is looking to be carried away in the moment. Such coquetishness requires strong masculinity.
Bingo.
Go after her, grab her by the hand, and without breaking eye contact say, “you’re not walking away from me, not like that.” Pause. Wait for her reaction. If she recoils, forget her. If she doesn’t break eye contact, follow it up with, “lets get out of here.”
Drop the first line, stick with the second line. Keep everything focused on the positive.
Grade: B+
manaconda wrote:
Wait until she turns around, then move up from behind and put your hand on her neck. Move it up into her hair, grab her hair, and slowly lean her back while twisting her to face you, and kiss from a position of total control. Then say “let’s go” and move out.
This is the extreme manifestation of caveman game. When it works, your job is done. You may as well begin unwrapping the condom. The problem with any high risk venture are the odds of failure. 99 times out of 100, given the scenario I outlined, the surprise from behind caveman kiss will get you slapped and/or tossed out of the bar.
Grade: A/F
el chief wrote:
massive fail. she ran game on you.
man leaves first. woman asks questions.
you should have been teasing her and making her laugh, to the point where you get the awkward silence where you know to ask for the phone number (or makeout). you should have been the mysterious one, not her.
but, what’s done is done.
maintain face. regain control. “sorry, the judge says I’m not allowed to use a computer for another 90 days. punch your number in my phone. it will be ok.” hand her phone. if she says no, then “aight”, and walk back to your boys.
And el chief ftw. Well done. This is a guy who knows the score. He approaches with firmness of purpose, calls her out on her BS in an accessibly humorous way without drawing undue attention to her shitty behavior, and then leads her to where he wants her to go.
Grade: A+
Cannon’s Canon wrote:
Grab her by the shoulder and spin her around so she’s facing you. Plant the steel toe in her gut so she keels over, then deliver the Stone Cold Stunner. As she writhes on the ground, give her two middle fingers. Make sure your wingman has been cued to break some glass at this point.
Is this the start of a new seduction school of thought? WWE game.
Grade: E for effort
PA wrote:
Why are the new episodes of “Two and a Half Men” having Charlie go lovey-dovey beta over some chick and seeing a ball-busting female feminist shrink and paying her to become more sensitive?
Because our culture overlords sense the gathering storm on the horizon. Like a stuck pig cornered, knowing their time is almost up, they are thrashing out in feral fury. Expect this elite-driven backlash to intensify in the coming years.
Grade: OT (off topic)
Ben wrote:
If you’re looking for strange, forget this one. If she successfully intrigued you, you step forward, take her hand, take off a ring, a bracelet, a necklace and give it to her. Tell her you want it back but only when she’s ready. If she hooks (unlikely) and asks, “Ready for what?” then you just closed mouth smile.
Hollywood called. They’re missing their Judd Apatow movie.
Grade: D-
MarkD wrote:
Call DA and ask for advice?
DA has terabytes of knowledge to drop.
Grade: DA
Ed wrote:
Forget what she says. It is all in the body language. Tell her to forget about the email. Just offer to walk her home with a stupid excuse.
I like the thinking behind this, but offering to walk her home smacks of beta chivalry. And we all know by now how counterproductive chivalry is in 21st century America. A better way to do this might be to say “Hey, I’m taking off too. You can walk with me and keep me entertained, but don’t get any funny ideas.”
Grade: C+
bongojazz wrote:
When she turned away, either she’s seeing if he’s worth a damn or she’s genuinely done. It’s possible it’s a test and she hasn’t made up her mind yet. I figure, hedge bets. Say
“I didn’t catch that.” loud enough so she can hear, and then turn around like you don’t give a damn.
I sort of like this, but in practice it’s only a small step above “do nothing”. Given the unfolding scene, the chance that she will come up to you to repeat herself are nil.
Grade: C-
Rain And wrote:
She’s walking away rudely. Running up to her is weak, so…..
YOU: [loudly] HEY! [if she doesn’t turn her head for this, game over. if she turns her head continue.] GET THE FUCK BACK HERE. [slyly, of course, not pissy. you’re calling her on her shit]
At this point she either ignores you, if she never cared, or comes back if she did care, but just wanted a little ballsy drama instead of boring phone routine.
YOU: I don’t want your email. Email is for work. C’mon… [grab her hand, lead her over somewhere close, perhaps a little more isolated.. no real point, except to dominate the interaction in a mysterious way. more hushed tone, like a secret] Look, there’s somewhere I always go on my birthday. It’s my ritual. I’m not going to tell you what it is, but it’s close. Walking distance. Five or six blocks.
And then you improvise the destination and backstory. Maybe a monument or another bar. Whatever is close. Just a contrived bounce.
This is solid Salvage Game. Beautiful. By amping up the asshole you virtually wipe clean your earlier betaness. Sometimes, when you have gone too far down the beta road, shock therapy is the only thing that will redeem you in the eyes of your target.
Grade: A
tokyobetagrist mewled:
According to the official story, game is all about controlling women and not letting them control you. If that’s the case, the only solution to this test that’s consistent with the philosophy of game is to do nothing. If you’re going to jump through hoops (I mean even more than usual) just to have sex with this one special woman, how are you any different from “betas?” This is the paradox of game, because you’re always jumping through hoops and always being controlled by women, even as you tell yourself that it’s the other way around.
Spoken like a supercilious eunuch who believes that women should fall into men’s laps, and any effort on a man’s part to attract women only sullies his masculinity. TBG, I have some very demoralizing news for you — no man is exempt from the biomechanical forces of sexual selection. Whether you are consciously aware of it or not, you do what it takes to attract the opposite sex, or you sit in your dank basement apartment hovel spitefully masturbating into the tattered sock of your self-satisfied dogma.
Grade: David Alexander wants to bear your lovechild
poonisgod wrote:
Your love declines. You, thinking little lines around my eyes are fallen lashes, try to brush them off.
I do exfoliate.
In this autumn of my being, parts of me fly, like tossed and wintry-blasted leaves.
I don’t regret their passing.
I must work to make a clear and crystal form.
I, alchemist, and I, philosophers stone,
have sacrificed the fat and froth and fur of youth,
to walk through fire, leap in the dark,
swim inward rivers, pray at a wailing wall.
The wrinkles, sags and greying hair are earned.
You mourn like a child with a broken doll.
Only the core of this crone, was ever real.
When I read this poem
I felt it move
First
to the left
Next
to the right
then up!
The throbbing soul of my love
jutted insouciantly from the waistband of my heart
yearning…
pulsing…
dribbling the pre-cum of my will to merge
with the fleeing of your youth
mourn it not
for its memory
will live on
in my digicam
Grade: Gold star on your forehead for the excellent handle
moonrock wrote:
Toss her your cellphone while she’s backing away.
Odds are you’ll interrupt whatever behavioral script is running through her head and she’ll trip over herself trying to catch it.
What if you have an iPhone or a G1? No girl is worth damaging a quality gadget. Plus, girls can’t catch.
Grade: Think this through
Lisa wrote:
Since you aren’t sure you heard her email right the genuine thing to do would be to cup your hand behind your ear to indicate you can’t hear and make a “come back” motion with your other hand. If she doesn’t walk closer to you then then give her a two-handed “what can I say” shrug and turn your back. If she does come back, ignore her telling you her email. Put your finger over your lips if she keeps saying it to signal her to be quiet. I’m a big fan of mirroring so since she’s been smiling all this time some amused indifference would be good to convey. Keep motioning her closer until she’s back next to you and take it from there.
It just seems to me like this is a situation where you demonstrate you’re in charge or you let her go.
This is very good. It doesn’t happen often, but occasionally a female reader gets it right. Points for its nonverbal simplicity and boldness.
Grade: Cooties
I got a B-.
Not bad.
LikeLike
He will sometimes reach for the brass ring; for him, doing nothing isn’t always the acceptable response. He takes risks; calculated, informed risks, sure, but risks nonetheless.
A huge hurdle that you have to overcome in game is learning to re-engage women, even if you haven’t managed things perfectly in the first interaction. Yes, coming over to talk to a girl who walked away (for whatever reason) can lower your value, but sometimes it has to be done. Not re-engaging means giving up on a lot of girls who want you to re-engage.
LikeLike
I always get it right Papi.
LikeLike
(thanks for noticing though)
LikeLike
“Cannon’s Canon wrote:
Grab her by the shoulder and spin her around so she’s facing you. Plant the steel toe in her gut so she keels over, then deliver the Stone Cold Stunner. As she writhes on the ground, give her two middle fingers. Make sure your wingman has been cued to break some glass at this point.
Is this the start of a new seduction school of thought? WWE game.
Grade: E for effort”
Cannon you deserved that E man that shit came out of nowhere.
LikeLike
This line made me sad. I recall meeting with a man once, at his place in a (new to me) questionably unsafe neighborhood. I left in darkness, and walked alone 1 1/2 block to my car. I’m generally risk-adverse and not a scaredy-cat . He may have had confidence that it was entirely safe out there, but I was nervous. I never met with him again.
LikeLike
LikeLike
Roissy, (if this was from your experience) what did you do and how did it turn out?
LikeLike
How she responds to chivalry depends on what she thought of you before you offered to walk her home. If your status is high, being chivalrous will boost your status. “OMG Brad Pitt held a door for me!” vs. “Uch this guy wouldn’t leave me alone, he even offered to walk me home.” She sees and responds to everything you do in terms of your status.
I figure if you’re chivalrous in a perfunctory, ‘I do this for everybody’ kind of way, it’s neutral. Hard to tell though.
LikeLike
I normally tend to agree w/Roissy on a number of things, but here I must respectfully disagree, to this extent:
What was the goal of the evening-was it simply to get a one night stand-style fuck-a “pump & dump” as my White Brothers like to call it-or something more?
Looking back on my life, I’ve always tended to steer clear of “pump & dump” moves. Not my style, and I’ve always preferred multiple longterm sexual relationships w/several Women at any one time.
Hence, the reasoning for my response in the original thread.
Such a girl as Roissy described, would come off to me that she would not be satisfactory for potential Mommy material. On top of that she was just plain weird.
Both things would turn me off, and I would never had said anything in the first place.
However, Roissy’s intentions are quite clear-to fuck, usually but not always, in pump & dump fashion-as many Women as possible. To that extent then, his selection criteria, is considerably different from mine, and I see nothing in the least wrong with that.
But, when doing exercises like these, I think its important to be clear on what our ultimate goal is. One’s game then fits said goals.
For example, some of the Game moves one would use to attempt to bed the gal in Roissy’s scenario, would be wholly different in the kind of Game I used wrt say, Brown Sugah, whom I’ve mentioned before. My seduction of her took place back in Jan, and we’re still seeing each other now.
So, I’m suggesting that one’s motivations and intentions and goals have to be taken into account here.
Comments?
The Obsidian
LikeLike
“anony
but offering to walk her home smacks of beta chivalry. And we all know by now how counterproductive chivalry is in 21st century America.
This line made me sad. I recall meeting with a man once, at his place in a (new to me) questionably unsafe neighborhood. I left in darkness, and walked alone 1 1/2 block to my car. I’m generally risk-adverse and not a scaredy-cat . He may have had confidence that it was entirely safe out there, but I was nervous. I never met with him again.”
So you may have went for me walking you home that night since a blogger was shot 2 blocks away not that long ago. Cool.
LikeLike
Obsidian March 12, 2009 at 1:39 pm
The response in the first post was gay/fearful. This one is a bit better, but not by much. And asking for “Comments?” sounds stupid. Of course people would respond, it is a fucking comment posting board.
LikeLike
Off topic, but x-posted on Isteve where there is a thread about Roissey:
The Decline of Western Civilization has often been analogized as the Titanic, where the captain and crew are all blissfully unaware of impending doom. Liberals and Neocons are the passengers who trust the captain. Paleocons are the passengers who can see the danger, and some are sounding the alarm, pointing out to the other passnegers that the captains have no idea where they are headed, and some Paleocons have given up and are just organizing their own lifeboats.
Roissey represents a third kind of passenger. As the ship is going down, he’s figured out a way to raid the liquor cabinet. He sees the danger, and roissey specifically is wise enough to offer invaluable insight as to what’s wrong with the ship and why.With the couple drinks he’s provided me I may be able to muster up the courage to man a more effective lifeboat (i.e. keep my wife attracted to me, and have more social credibility to persuade others the ship is sinking). On the whole, his actions are counterproductive for the long term, and he knows it, but this mess was like this when he got here.
LikeLike
Easy Stan, the rectum in the middle of your head is beginning to show.
Thanks-I think?
O
LikeLike
““You can’t walk away from me just like that. I’m (name)..”
Never remind a girl that she is
a. walking away from you
b. giving you a hard time
c. acting like a bitch
d. ignoring you
It will only reinforce her unflattering impression of you.
Grade: D
I see why that won’t work now. I tried to infuse that with a direct opener that I normally use that I got from Cajun:
“You can’t look at me like that and not say anything…”
Lesson learned…
LikeLike
“Roissy, (if this was from your experience) what did you do and how did it turn out?”
I swooped her into my F1, and we drove to National Airport to fly my Gulfstream IV to Dubai for the night.
We returned to the States in my 300 ft yacht, the S.S. Cristal, which I had forward deployed to Dubai for just such an occurence.
-PMP
LikeLike
After I wrote that, I started to consider that calling her out on something even as small as that can anchor bad feelings.
Good point.
LikeLike
i knew el chief was the winner.
sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. just the rules of the game…
LikeLike
Women can smell fear…
http://www.livescience.com/health/090310-fear-scent.html
LikeLike
I really though my contribution was very good.
LikeLike
Thought…. bimbo! Are you there, Max?
LikeLike
Obsidian, if you fuck a girl right the first time, she will come back for more.
LikeLike
The C Manifesto
“Roissy, (if this was from your experience) what did you do and how did it turn out?”
“I swooped her into my F1, and we drove to National Airport to fly my Gulfstream IV to Dubai for the night.”
If you are in that city, you are flying out of Dulles to Dubai not National. Even on a private jet.
“We returned to the States in my 300 ft yacht, the S.S. Cristal, which I had forward deployed to Dubai for just such an occurence.”
The Mega-Yacht Game takes place in the Caribbean this time of year, not Dubai. Dubai is headed for the skids anyways.
Good try.
Grade: E
(For E-Tabs)
– MPM
LikeLike
Ben wrote:
If you’re looking for strange, forget this one. If she successfully intrigued you, you step forward, take her hand, take off a ring, a bracelet, a necklace and give it to her. Tell her you want it back but only when she’s ready. If she hooks (unlikely) and asks, “Ready for what?” then you just closed mouth smile.
Hollywood called. They’re missing their Judd Apatow movie.
Grade: D-
This suggestion is nauseating. A grade of D- is extremely generous. It also presupposes you wear man-jewelry. Giving her your jewelry raises her on a very high pedestal and will probably come across as creepy and/or needy. Plus the cinematic shtick is just lame… I digress.
On another note, walking a girl to her car at night, especially in a bad neighborhood, is what a man does. There is nothing about that which would lessen her attraction for you… its not an approval seeking behavior. It’s an awareness that women are much more susceptible targets of violence. The protective instinct (and mere courtesy) it displays will turn her on, especially if she’s already attracted to you.
LikeLike
Lurker,
No doubt, based on my experience, what you say is true; but that’s a separate issue from what I understand Roissy’s motivations *appear* to be, and for that matter a number of other gentlemen in this forum as well. From what I’ve been able to discern, the goal is to rack up a number of one night stand-type sexual relationships. If what I’m saying is correct, the girl wanting to come back would be irrelevant. All that would matter, from the Roissy standpoint, is that she was pumped and dumped.
Of course, I could be wrong, and if so, I stand to be corrected.
O
LikeLike
The G Manifesto
The C Manifesto
“Roissy, (if this was from your experience) what did you do and how did it turn out?”
“I swooped her into my F1, and we drove to National Airport to fly my Gulfstream IV to Dubai for the night.”
“If you are in that city, you are flying out of Dulles to Dubai not National. Even on a private jet.
“We returned to the States in my 300 ft yacht, the S.S. Cristal, which I had forward deployed to Dubai for just such an occurence.”
The Mega-Yacht Game takes place in the Caribbean this time of year, not Dubai. Dubai is headed for the skids anyways.
Good try.
Grade: E
(For E-Tabs)
– MPM”
Oh shit. Yea big hotels trying to act holier than though now that the big money and wives rolled in. Still though. They just need to change back to allowing smoking and not cow tow to the bs whims of others.
LikeLike
Bjorn:
Here’s the post in question by Steve Sailer:
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/03/game.html
Frankly, this is probably the stupidest misunderstanding of what game is about that I’ve ever read in my life. Sailer actually wrote the following (emphasis mine):
Ouch. It will be interesting to see if Roissy and other Sailer’s fans from this blog will call him on this display of stupidity or pretend that they never read this.
LikeLike
I’m pretending I never read it.
LikeLike
Bjorn:
Oh, now I see that Roissy and a few others have already replied to this post on isteve. It’s funny how polite and respectful their replies are, which I suppose witnesses to the level of Sailer-worship among this crowd. Many others who wrote stupid, but nowhere as bad comments on this topic got savagely flamed here (not that there’s anything wrong with that, as far as I’m concerned).
This nicely demonstrates what I usually call the “anti-PC PC” spirit. By being sufficiently un-PC, Sailer has apparently earned the right to command respect even when his comments are dumb as a box of rocks. (In fact, the level of superficiality, closed-mindedness, and intellectual laziness that he demonstrated in this post should make one question his other writings too, especially since his main claim to fame is his supposedly intelligent, detailed, objective, and open-minded approach to topics best left unmentioned in polite society.)
LikeLike
Vladimir:
Sailer is not as steeped in the teachings of Game as Roissy and others. His “ignorance” should be somewhat forgiven.
If a guy just picked up basketball for the first time, are you going to tear him apart if he can’t hit a jump shot?
Besides, Steve’s just pointing out another avenue to obtain women. Game works pretty well, but women also dig a man who is powerful and successful in his career.
LikeLike
Sailer is an old man who has (or seems like) a nice wife and a good family, of course he doesn’t get Game. He can’t even believe what women are really inside. Can’t blame him.
My own family is the typical example of hot wife gone berserk when Dad became comfortable and became a beta. Now that I know Game I always lecture him about how Mom wants him to act more alpha and that women can’t help shit testing and bitching to what they perceive as beta behavior, but Dad is just clueless. He doesn’t get it. Never will.
I did negged my mother succesfully into not divorcing though. All thanks to Game.
LikeLike
Never remind a girl that she is
a. walking away from you
b. giving you a hard time
c. acting like a bitch
d. ignoring you
It will only reinforce her unflattering impression of you.
This is an intriguing critique. I’ve shared it with quality friends of mine – half believe calling her on those bullshit tactics is the manly thing to do. Having read most of the Game-oriented posts here, my gut tells me roissy is correct, but I just can’t put my finger on just why.
LikeLike
Chuck–
Good point, except I think the whole point of game is that you can have all the advantages of a good career and still not turn on a girl. They may still calculatingly transact with you, but this will be an “upstairs” decision, whereas game deals directly downstairs.
Vladimir–
You are absolutely right. It shouldn’t take a person too long to figure out the fundamental theories behind game. Unless his age prevents clear vision, I suppose.
I wonder what Taki would say about game?
LikeLike
spandrell: “I did negged my mother succesfully into not divorcing though. All thanks to Game.”
Eww, you gamed your mom?
LikeLike
This nicely demonstrates what I usually call the “anti-PC PC” spirit. By being sufficiently un-PC, Sailer has apparently earned the right to command respect even when his comments are dumb as a box of rocks.
No, by being a smart, affable guy who has shown himself able to be persuaded by argument, Steve has earned the right to a respectful reply.
Most of the people who get flamed here get flamed because they have a preening anti-game agenda. Steve’s comment doesn’t have that kind of animus behind it. He’s just being a clueless suburban family man from the ‘burbs.
We really should get hound him to read some of the better game literature: The Game, The Mystery Method, Magic Bullets, Robert Greene’s The Art of Seduction, Practical Female Psychology for the Practical Man. I’m sure he’d have some insightful things to say about it.
(BTW, being so interested in Obama, Steve should really read Greene’s 48 Laws of Power, which reads like a virtual blueprint for Obama’s campaign.)
LikeLike
clueless suburban family man from the ‘burbs.</i.
I should learn to proof read.
LikeLike
Someone has to explain to me why getting an email is a failure. I’ve converted emails obtained in crowded environments in the field into in-person meets (admittedly after a few weeks of email flirtation) twice in the past year. On this blog, we’ve gone on and on- and I agree- about how texting has supplanted actual phone calling; again, the culture is changing and you have to adapt to new modes of communication. Especially b/c most of us running game are older than the girls we’re gaming. Now I understand that in this scenario, she’s a sly little fox and she is running away and you can’t hear the email. Fine, that calls for adept escalation of some tight game, and low chance of success. But in principle, I want to know why the email is a fail. Especially now where mobile devices are starting to merge email and phone, I would argue that its no different than getting a number. Most of these little bitches are taking phone calls and reading their email from the same device. She can blow you off just as easily, and can respond to you if she likes you with even less risk to her. Only you better have tight email game. I consider it a different phase of game, not a failure of game.
LikeLike
Crap!
LikeLike
“Many others who wrote stupid, but nowhere as bad comments on this topic got savagely flamed here”
Who? They were probably being annoying, or combative, or obstinate, or disingenuous, or ideological, or assholes about it.
Donald at 2Blowhards got a respectful reply from roissy as well.
Anyway, it’s just common sense that there are different standards based on status and affiliation. If an intern is one tenth the asshole as House MD, the intern gets fired. If your friend makes an unfunny joke, you usually laugh anyway. If some shrill bitch makes the same joke, you say she’s not funny and tell her to fuck off.
So, yeah, no surprises, Steve is a major ally and a major influence, so he usually gets much respect.
LikeLike
Chuck:
If you want to be a public commentator, you’d better make sure to know what you’re talking about. If you discuss any topic publicly and demonstrate that you’ve made no real effort to learn even about its very basics (or that you’re too stupid or close-minded to understand it), then yes, you are inviting people to tear you apart.
Sailer’s display of ignorance in this case is significant. He claims to stand out by approaching sensitive, un-PC, ideologically loaded topics with an open mind, but apparently, he’s unable or unwilling to question even the minimal bits of conventional wisdom and pretty lies that must be discarded in order to understand what game is about.
Also, I find it funny when I see the respect he’s getting for reasons of inverse-PC. People who write even moderately silly stuff usually don’t get respectful refutations of their fallacies here. They get attacked and fisked without any regards for politeness and their feelings (which I don’t mind if they’ve deserved it). However, it seems to be politically incorrect to treat Sailer like that, even if he’s made a complete ass out of himself.
LikeLike
Vlad:
If we all had to be experts on every topic we discussed or posted about, there’d be very little literature on any topic. He’s just early on the learning curve. If he’s a smart guy, and I think he is, he’ll eventually put it all together.
LikeLike
chuck
powerful? yes.
successful in his career? no. that’s not “digging him”; that’s “digging his gold”.
in today’s social atmosphere, any “successful” man would be well advised to hide all signs of his success from any potential mates (suitresses?) until he has already hooked them with his game.
in fact, it would be downright foolish for him to do otherwise.
LikeLike
Vladimir is often a very perceptive commenter, but let me forstall the inevitable attack on evopsych by quoting John Derbyshire’s review of The Art Instinct:
It is common for Blank Slaters to follow Stephen Jay Gould in scoffing at evolu- tionary explanations for human nature as “just-so stories”—narratively appealing, but untestable, unverifiable, and unfalsifiable.
This line of attack is not entirely unfair. There are indeed knotty questions to be tackled in applying biology to behavior and mind. Knottiest of all, as Dutton explains very patiently, is distinguishing between a true adaptation—“an inherited physiological, affective, or behavioral characteristic that reliably develops in an organism, increasing its chances of survival and reproduction”—and by-products of the evolutionary process with no survival value. As biology lecturers tell their freshman classes: Not every trait is an adaptation. Our bones are white, but that is an accident of their composition. They would serve just as well, with no evolutionary downside, if they were chartreuse. As well as being knotty, these issues are politically fraught. Is the female orgasm an adaptation or a by-product? Best not ask.
Still, so long as care is taken with such distinctions—and I think Gould can fairly be charged, as Dutton does charge him, with deplorable carelessness here—the construction of hypotheses about the origin of traits is legitimate science. The evidence is at present largely circumstantial, to be sure, but as Thoreau noted, circumstantial evidence can be very persuasive, “as when you find a trout in the milk.” [emphasis mine] It is easy to think of modest advances in our understanding of biology that would bring some of these “just-so stories” into the testable zone. There is nothing unscientific about putting hypotheses out there to await the happy day.
LikeLike
Sara I
Thought…. bimbo! Are you there, Max?
How can I help YOU???*
*note my call out fee is $50 😉
LikeLike
johnny five: I wholeheartedly agree
LikeLike
Howard Roark, getting an email is a failure because you asked for a phone number. If you had asked for an email (which is fine), then no failure.
LikeLike
Thursday:
I never attacked evo-psych as such. It’s a fundamentally valid scientific approach. However, this field is plagued by three problems to an unusually high degree: (1) it’s easy to construct plausible-sounding, but scientifically worthless flights of fancy, (2) a lot of it seems deceptively simple and straightforward to laymen, and (3) its conclusions are ideologically charged and relevant to people’s personal issues to a degree that makes a neutral, objective discussion about it near-impossible. (The same problems exist with evolution in general, but they’re especially severe with evo-psych.)
As for Derbyshire, he’s one of my favorite columnists, he knows his math and he’s otherwise very erudite, but he sometimes gets badly lost when he comments on fields outside his expertise. In many cases, the issue with evo-psych theories is not about the validity of the supposed “circumstantial evidence”, but about whether the presented facts qualify as even that — not to even mention the issues of the environmental premises and the logic used to derive the supposed fitness advantage.
In any case, the basic problem is that evolutionary theory is one of those areas where everyone feels irrationally entitled to a relevant opinion. Try dabbling in general relativity as an amateur and proclaiming your supposedly relevant insights about it, and you’ll be rightfully laughed out as a crackpot. For the above mentioned reasons, dabbling in evolutionary theory, and evo-psych in particular, is much more widespread and accepted, even though the relevant science is equally complicated and outside the grasp of laymen.
LikeLike
Chuck:
Why do you think that would be bad?
LikeLike
Roissy, I woul like you to consider the following (and answering of course):
Chavalry is dead, you say. The girl says:
“This line made me sad. I recall meeting with a man once, at his place in a (new to me) questionably unsafe neighborhood. I left in darkness, and walked alone 1 1/2 block to my car. I’m generally risk-adverse and not a scaredy-cat . He may have had confidence that it was entirely safe out there, but I was nervous. I never met with him again.”
I would never, NEVER, do this to a girl. I mean, I am the one who never leaves a female friend (who I not want to bang) in the taxi alone; I am the one who cannot resist to help an old lady with two too much heavy trash bags.
But chavalry is indeed dead.
I tend to think, however that, being such a “gentleman”, will put you in another dimension than the “rest of the people”. She will notice that you’re made of something different. It does not necessarily have to be beta.
There is a Beta Chivalry indeed, but not all chivalry is Beta. The most Alpha guys I met, would help old ladies to cross the road while already flirting with a girl on the other side of the road.
The thing, I think, is that when you deliver your “chivalry” towards a hot girl and she believes you are only being that nice because of her hotness. Example:
Sometime ago I was in a trendy restaurant with lots of late teens early twenties. It was Haloween day. I was in the last place, close to the door. Behind me (with her back towards me but within the reach of one arm, sitting obviously in another table) was the second or third hotter girl in the place: A solid nine.
So, people were going in and out every two minutes and only one third of the people would close the door. It was a winter night, it was cold and the girl had little clothes. As the people pass through the door, me and she started to get crancky and tell people to close the door. I am always nervous in the presence of other people. More so to women. More so to hot women. That’s when I turn back and start demanding people “Hey! Shut the door when you exit!” on a semi-Alpha manner.
The following time, I say something like that and close the door. That girl who was behind me turns around and, while making eye contact says softly: “Thank you”. She did not stared too long but I, nervous, managed to show her the back of my neck first.
The third time, a group of black/Indian guys who were selling things go out and do not close the door. It was cold. She leans back in my direction to close the door and I was already closing the door. She makes subtle eye contact again and says “thank you”. I started to believe in that moment that she was glad I was closing the door (chivalry?) and I, started to think that I had to say something to leave some impact. And then, when she says thank you, making subtle eye contact, I:
Run with my stare away from her brownish-green eyes, smile amazed by her beauty (and I suspect my smiling is not that cativating) and reply the most beta “YOU’RE WELCOMED!”
That was the end of it, right before the couvert had arrived. She did not look at me anymore that entire night.
So, I think chavilry still stands AS LONG AS it is not a sordidly display of “Betaness”.
Meanwhile, a man who abandons a girl in a dangerous area leaves the image he’s so beta he’s scared by the environment.
P.S. – Sorry for the long comment, I know its boring to read.
LikeLike
Whatever Sailor’s other virtues, if he doesn’t like something, if it is outside of his comfort zone, he is incapable of honestly debating it, and resorts to being a typical dishonest liberal.
He made fun of the people who thought Obama was born out of the US in the same way. He decided they meant Kenya(because he could make fun of them then) and then went on and on about how it was impossible for Obama to have been born in Kenya.
For the record, I think Obama’s mother, ‘Those are not my people!” girl, was more than nutty enough to have him in Canada.
This ‘game’ post is obviously along the same lines. He declares Game ‘won’t work’ but ‘money game will’. He doesn’t need evidence, and is a snotty little punk.
Yeah, the super-high divorce rates of the Boomers indicate the blinding success of Money Game really good. Woo-Hoo.
Then he echoes all the other anti-Game people in saying that young men need to WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK and then everything will be great! Evidence would suggest that this is wrong.
LikeLike
I don’t care how much crudity you put in it, bad poetry is hopelessly beta!
Walking home a girl out of chivalry is a myth. If you’re giving off the right vibe, she’ll know what you mean by ‘walking her home’. Girl + guy she just met alone = noble, chivalrous and protecting? Yeaaah, right.
I love the game analysing posts: always something that makes me laugh out loud. WWE game?!
LikeLike
Bhetti
Such cynicism is why it such chivalry happens less and less.
As sidenote:
Chivalry has its origins in knights of old. You know, tough guys with swords and shields. Not exactly meek and mild types.
A gentleman does is not gentle (i.e., soft). The emphasis is on man not gentle.
LikeLike
Max
How can I help YOU???*
*note my call out fee is $50
From Australia? Must be a token fee. We tend not to appreciate that which we get for free. You’re a good man, Max. You’re giving us bimbos hope! Knowledge/being right is highly over rated anyway. Is cash okay? *smile*
I found out some more about my breakfast date. He’s a security guard by night and a boxing teacher, trash business owner, and film production funder/loaner or some such thing by day. Too many people working 2, 3, 4 jobs these days. What evil forces have caused this?
LikeLike
US Dollars would be fine…..
LikeLike
Virgin@40
My comment above applies to you as well.
LikeLike
Now that is called game.
LikeLike
Sara I
Who suggested a “Breakfast Date” anyway???
You or the guy still running Multiple Income Stream Game from an Anthony Robbins seminar he went to in 1989???
LikeLike
roissy
I never said anything like that. I was just pointing out that game is hypocritical and logically inconsistent. And you don’t seem to have a counter-argument against that.
LikeLike
Sailer’s comments were almost completely incorrect, I agree.
This statement brings up the question: is he anti-Game or is he ignorant of Game?
My own opinion is that he’s Game-ignorant rather than anti-Game. As Thursday mentioned, Sailer is apparently an older family man. Most of my friends my age (20s) don’t even know the evo psych thinking behind Game which is why I spend a lot of time reading this board. Most likely, Game is so outside Sailer’s realm that he doesn’t have a firm grasp on it.
So he is still wrong, but I’ll assume he’s speaking from ignorance rather than malevolence.
His post has a different sound to it compared to some of the shrill anti-Game voices on this board. He seems to be asking questions rather than stating facts.
LikeLike
Tokyo
This is probably a waste of keystrokes but anyway here goes.
Attraction itself is illogical, inconsistent and its results often hypocritical…
Ask yourself, why is it so easy to pick-up in a foriegn country when you cant even speak the language? it doesn’t make sense… but it does work…
Thats why smart guys often have so much trouble socially.
If you break it down to its Meta-rules its “being of higher value”, externally and more important internally.
A large majority of men have always been raised by their mothers to be servant – betas to look after them in their old age….
My advice to you Tokyo is to break up with your mother today.
LikeLike
Default user: Say we’re in knightsofoldetime. You think they wouldn’t have called her a whore for being alone with the dude in medieval times, with of course nary a scratch upon his own reputation? Knowing this: does his action translate as truly selfless or just taking the oppurtunity to “court” a girl? Would a chivalrous man walk a girl home on his own or with some backup to make sure that both she AND her rep are protected?
I concede to the point that such cynicism is part of the disease that erodes actions driven by genuine goodwill. I’m also the type who’s utterly afraid of speaking to a person asking for change. The type who looks suspiciously at a relatively old male stranger giving any second looks to my little sister.
I just have trouble believing there WAS or IS such a world where there PREVIOUSLY was such bounteous trust (which isn’t misplaced) between people flying about willy, nilly. I’m sure it exists in the supposed peaceful heaven of the countryside somewhere.
LikeLike
tokyojesusfist: you don’t seem to have an argument against asian dudes having small dicks. so small that even thier own women (who have tight holes, evolutionarily designed for small dicks) won’t even pair with them.
LikeLike
tokyojesusfist: you don’t seem to have an argument against asian dudes having small dicks. so small that even thier own women (who have tight holes, evolutionarily designed for small dicks) prefer to not pair with them.
LikeLike
The Game techniques found in this blog work and I will never deny that. That being said, the basis of Steve Sailor’s observations and comments should not be dismissed so easily. His question assumes too many things, but his definition of game is probably more accurate than not.
All of us here are using brainpower to compensate for what doesn’t always come naturally. Proof lies in the fact that no natural Top Tier Alpha would even think to read or comment on this blog. My problem with Sailor is that he assumes gamers fail at everything else. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most people here probably apply the same dedication to most of their goals. Besides, anyone with any experience with women knows that a whole different set of craziness applies.
LikeLike
whatever,
as roissy pointed out in his reply to sailer’s post is that interpersonal skills are the key. interpersonal skills can garner a person a great job, lots of money, many male friends, and success with women.
game helps “nerds” or betas with their interpersonal skills. depending on which direction they want to take those skills, they can improve in many different areas of life. in many cases, men would much rather fulfill their inner hedonist and use their skills on women.
LikeLike
Bhetti
It is true that scoundrels and gentlemen have always existed through time. Indeed, they still do.
A little cynicism is good, too much is corrosive.
LikeLike
Max from Australia
I’m not talking about attraction, I’m talking about the philosophy of game. This is what I posted:
According to the official story, game is all about controlling women and not letting them control you. If that’s the case, the only solution to this test that’s consistent with the philosophy of game is to do nothing. If you’re going to jump through hoops (I mean even more than usual) just to have sex with this one special woman, how are you any different from “betas?” This is the paradox of game, because you’re always jumping through hoops and always being controlled by women, even as you tell yourself that it’s the other way around.
Huh?
LikeLike
Where has anyone on this blog ever written this?
Not only are you an obtuse and obstinate, you also have a dramatic case of sub-par reading comprehension.
If you had any such thing, you would not be attacking this strawman of “game” that you’ve constructed.
Yes, is partially about not letting women control you…but successful game is NOT about “controlling” women.
It’s about leading women where they want you to take them.
If they can tell you are not doing so – or are not capable, they will not follow.
It’s as simple as that.
When any man uses game to display his social dominance, she recognizes it and plays along to get to where she wants to be – mating with a male who has dominant genes.
LikeLike
Game is all about controlling women and not letting them control you.
Where has anyone on this blog ever written this?
Not only are you an obtuse and obstinate, you also have a dramatic case of sub-par reading comprehension.
If you had any such thing, you would not be attacking this strawman of “game” that you’ve constructed.
Yes, is partially about not letting women control you…but successful game is NOT about “controlling” women.
It’s about leading women where they want you to take them.
If they can tell you are not doing so – or are not capable, they will not follow.
It’s as simple as that.
When any man uses game to display his social dominance, she recognizes it and plays along to get to where she wants to be – mating with a male who has dominant genes.
Sorry, wanted have said great post! Waiting on your next post!
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii
And now the denial and evasion starts.
LikeLike
Yes BetaGrist, we already know that’s your style.
Show us an explicit post in which Roissy or any other Game proponent here has stated that game is about “controlling’ women.
LikeLike
I’ve been reading this blog as well as similiar sites for a long time now, and it’s plainly obvious that game is about controlling women. I don’t understand why you would try to deny this.
LikeLike
Who says that dorks cannot be alpha?
LikeLike
What part of Dave’s explanation “successful game is NOT about “controlling” women. It’s about leading women where they want you to take them” do you find unsatisfying?
LikeLike
So you’re saying that a woman who sleeps with a man who uses “game” is not in control of her own actions? Is not responsible for her own choices? That she has NO CHOICE but to be “controlled” by the big, bad old player? That she has NO desire to sleep with the man, only that he controlled her into it?
Are you really this clueless? Or are you just playing up a caricature here, like Peter and his GNP?
LikeLike
Why do you believe that “control” refers to hypnosis-like manipulation that isn’t even possible? I am not talking about magic.
LikeLike
Control implies that a man is doing something to “force” a woman to sleep with him.
That’s called RAPE, not Game.
LikeLike
Are you genuinely confused or are you playing around with semantics because you want to avoid facing the fact that game is inconsistent and hypocritical?
LikeLike
That’s your M.O., not mine.
Game is only “inconsistent and hypocritical” if your definition of it is true.
You defined game as “controlling” a woman.
I countered that in fact you were wrong, and supplied an alternate definition of “game.”
Rather than even try to address that, you carry on as if your statement is already a given truth.
Please explain how the explanation I provided is wrong.
It’s as simple as that.
The only semantics games is your typical tactic of refusing to answer direct questions, which is why everyone identifies you as a troll around here.
LikeLike
Me not believe in Game! Rising Dragon Punch best technique more powerful! Me use it to win Ugry Asian girls!
LikeLike
Did anyone else see a tinge of DA in Sailer’s post? The sort of “I have to get money before I get women” mentality that cripples all too many American men.
LikeLike
If a man usues game to be more confident in himself, becomes fashionable so he appeals to women, I don’t have a problem with him . It’s the pump and dump misogistic(tp) tone that some men who use game have that I find disturbing(tp).
LikeLike
I repeat that you are either confused or playing with semantics. “Control” has nothing to do with coercion or magical hypnosis, so my definition of game is accurate.
Beijing Allah Knee
Is Stormfront offline again?
LikeLike
LMAO – OK betaGrist, I’ll play your game of semantics.
Let’s say you’re right.
Than how do you define “control?”
LikeLike
Ya, but, there is no one right way to fuck. And while one girl may want you to pound her so hard the bed moves across the room, the other may prefer a love-me-tender approach. Some like to be on top, some like to be all over the room, and some only on the bottom. While you can read some sexual tells on a first date, and teach her a few new tricks, unless her fucking style matches your own, fucking her right the way she wants to be fucked is hit and miss.
But I usually look at it the other way round. If she doesn’t fuck me right, I might not come back for more.
Then again – I once broke up with a girl because she was a lousy lay. She promised me that she’d do better, if I took her back, and I said “No way. You are hopeless. Some people just can’t fuck” She persisted and I caved, and proceded to make her a little booklet of diagrams of sex positions and techniques. She was a diligent student and eventually became really fun in bed. She’d leave me quivering.
LikeLike
xsplatYa, but, there is no one right way to fuck.
but there is only one right way to lick 🙂
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii —
Actually Dave, I think on that one point he’s sorta right. (Despite my thinking he’s almost always wrong including in everything else he says in this thread.) I think game IS about demonstrating your ability to (lightly and subtly) control a woman, through teasing, pursue, withdrawal, demonstration of worth, challenge of her worth, and so on. She wants it and you want it. You both know you don’t in your conscious ethical forebrain (well I know I DO), because that’s what hyper American feminism has taught you both. But you both know you do in your limbic, hindbrain (id).
Myself, I say ratchet up lightly and subtly to begin with (unless she’s throwing off strong signals) to something not at all light and subtle, at least a lot of the time in bed and some of the time out of it.
LikeLike
chic noir —
Not in my experience. At all. Might be for a particular girl, but usually not. Variation.
We do need to get you that cock orgasm though Chic. Ok maybe after an oral warmup one.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii
From roissy’s Sixteen Commandments of Poon:
PUAs always talk about how important it is to take charge, make the decisions, do things your way and generally keep the woman on a short leash.
LikeLike
What’s with this bad clock on this board?
LikeLike
tokyojesusfist —
Now you’re being a piggybacking opportunist.
No big surprise.
LikeLike
tokyoasexualfreak–
Doesn’t that sound JUST DELICIOUS??!!
Or have you no balls at all?
LikeLike
doug – if you use game and demonstrate your social dominance, she will approve of it and commence to go along with the game willingly.
You’re defining control along the lines of the counter-definition I provided…i.e. She is still letting you take her where she wants you to lead her, no?
Tokyo’s definition of “control” definitely has a more negative connotation. He’s is implying that “control” of the woman makes game hypocritical and logically inconsistent…that only dumb or stupid women would ever “fall” for a man who is “controlling.”
In the mating dance, the man can only have as much control as she allows…otherwise it is rape.
LikeLike
Yup. I know ax expat in the Philippines who has some several million, who never mentions a word of his lootage to the girls.
And I try to not even tell my girlfriend of 2 years the details of my earnings.
There is no need for such crass talk. I don’t hide it when I’m extremely poor, or doing well, I’m just keenly ambilvalent about it. Neither here nor there.
LikeLike
Dougjnn: Leave Tokyo aloone!!!!! He has refuted all you people’s theories and has roused me to great passions. We shall be married with him presenting me with a prenupfromhellforwomen next Friday the 13th. He has won the game by not playing the game: I am hot, at least an eight, hotornot.com says so.
Ha! You illogical controlling sexist PUAs; you know nothing!
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii
No, I’m implying that it’s hypocritical and inconsistent to laugh at betas for being so easily led around by women, and then doing the same thing yourself (while insisting that it doesn’t make you a beta).
But I also don’t like women who play the game.
LikeLike
Bhetti is the blog’s Fiona, who’s going to marry the troll.
LikeLike
I’m a very luck princess, gig. Very lucky indeed. You’re all invited. We’ll pay for the tickets from my bountiful parental bank account.
LikeLike
Bhetti, maybe you shouldn’t post when you’re under the influence of various drugs.
LikeLike
I am waiting for the day when Tokyio’s asian wife cheats him with the mexican gardener and he assumes the sino-mexican kid so that he can win the BOTM award here
LikeLike
dougjnWe do need to get you that cock orgasm though Chic
I’m afriad it’s a mental thing.
LikeLike
Not a lot of Mexicans in my country. Not a lot of Asians either. I’m also not planning on ever having kids. So what is your point, exactly?
LikeLike
I’m sorry, hunny tokyo my sweetie, I’ve let you down again, haven’t I? *breaks into a crying fit* This is the last time, I promise.
LikeLike
OMG. I forgot how much you hated exhibitions of excess emotion. So sorry! I keep disappointing you, I do!!!
LikeLike
The kids thing, it’s in the prenup…!
LikeLike
Yes, Chic, Doug is right. Well, how many pussy’s have you introduced to your face, anyway?
Some women like tongue on clit right away, some can barely stand it to have direct pressure and you have to work them up to it. Every pussy has a personality.
LikeLike
A PUA using game is not being led around by women. He’s leading her to the place she already wants to go.
A beta is lead around by a woman because he thinks that being an accommodating sycophant doormat will get him laid or a long term relationship.
LikeLike
We’ve already deduced that tokyo has never lived with a woman before.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii
In the story roissy posted, he (or the hypothetical protagonist) was completely being led around, and doing the same shit PUAs accuse betas of doing. But roissy insists that it wasn’t beta behavior just because he says it wasn’t. He is either advocating a double standard or saying that behavior has nothing to do with whether you’re a beta or an alpha. Both options are inconsistent with the stated goals of game.
LikeLike
re: Two and a Half Men
The characters on Two and a Half Men sometimes display Alpha behavior and sometimes Beta behavior (Sheen, more Alpha/player, Cryer more beta/nebbish). They are basically always rewarded for acting like players and they are always punished for being beta.
This is by design…or at least according to the creator of the show in an interview I read. (“No good deed goes unpunished”).
The show is both carrot and stick.
LikeLike
Reading comprehension…again.
What do you think “I purposely chose an example of bad game” means?
It was certainly beta behavior he described in that post…which is why it was “bad game.”
LikeLike
I’m going to go and sleep off this toxic cocktail off, lovekyo~
I wish you’d tuck me in, just once… I don’t know whyyy I love you when you’re so meean to me.
LikeLike
“Some women like tongue on clit right away, some can barely stand it to have direct pressure and you have to work them up to it. Every pussy has a personality.”
And some like to grind your face in their pussy like a mortar and pestle.
I’ve found that lots of women lose their minds from inconsistent and firm flicks of the tongue on the clit. Flicking the clit sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly with your tongue like you’re gleaking, but with added pressure. Mix those with rolling the clit between your top and bottom lip like you’re spreading chapstick and prodding her g-spot with your finger, and her head will spin in circles.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii
Again, he insisted that there was no double standard and that he wasn’t being led around.
LikeLike
Where did roissy say that was himself?
And even if it was, so what? How does that show hypocrisy or a double standard?
“Developing game” is certainly about learning from your mistakes. He clearly gives us an example of “bad game” to learn from.
LikeLike
Dave from Hawaii–
Yeah, same page.
But as to the last, we need to listen to what she WANTs, not what she says, right? But I did say and mean listen (or rather sense). Like some other things, this is not for beginners.
LikeLike
It’s obviously hypocritical to declare something as beta behavior, and then do it yourself and claim it’s not beta behavior just because you’re the one doing it.
And another problem of game is always there: claiming to be in control yet still jumping through hoops and dealing with bullshit because you’re desperate for pussy.
LikeLike
Bhetti —
LoL. You can be so adorable.
LikeLike
Max
Who suggested a “Breakfast Date” anyway???
You or the guy still running Multiple Income Stream Game from an Anthony Robbins seminar he went to in 1989???
You’re funny, I think. Are all men this calculating? This is too much for one small bimbo to handle. HE suggested a breakfast date. I would never ask a guy out or if he gave me a card; call him. I mentioned him on on another post. Hard to keep UP I know. LOL
LikeLike
A beta is lead around by a woman because he thinks that being an accommodating sycophant doormat will get him laid or a long term relationship.
Hey, for some of us, that’s the only thing we can offer as a friend or boyfriend!
David Alexander, disloyal sycophant since 1983.
LikeLike
“It’s obviously hypocritical to declare something as beta behavior, and then do it yourself and claim it’s not beta behavior just because you’re the one doing it.”
Where did roissy do this?
He was purposefully vague as to the identity of the protagonist in the post…and he made no excuses for it. He himself called it BAD GAME.
You really do have a problem with reading comprehension.
LikeLike
No, I think you’re the one who has a reading comprehension problem. It doesn’t matter if he called it bad game or if the protagonist wasn’t him.
LikeLike
Chic Noir–
Oh I know sweetie, I know. On many levels I know.
What you need to do, and this is real, is find someone who really turns you on, but who you have good reason to trust to not be hugely hurtfully manipulative. A man with some real macho, but who’s not a scarily totally unethical type. Who does care about you. You may or may not have to restrict this to a long term relationship, you tell me. And then you need to let yourself surrender. Just, having been cautious in selection, throw caution in the doing completely to the wind. Just be his complete bitch, for that little period. You can and will reclaim. You can and will re-evaluate. Some really addictive personality girls might not be able to, but you will be. That’s not your area of concern. Just do it for me as an experiment, kay?
LikeLike
tokyojesusfist: you are short, AND SO IS YOUR DICK
LikeLike
Bhetti
Muslim men living in Muslim lands don’t remotely need a pre-nup.
Law.
Their wives do though. Though they wouldn’t be enforced in those lands, or almost all of them, I’d guess based on more than nothing but less than sure knowledge.
LikeLike
Hey, for some of us, that’s the only thing we can offer as a friend or boyfriend!
David Alexander, disloyal sycophant since 1983.
This is what is most puzzling about you. You’re openly admitting that you’re not befriending women out of women out of altruism but for your own selfish benefit. The best you get out of it is the occasional hug, and when people like “Wellesley Queen” figure out your stupid little act, you end up with nothing.
LikeLike
V@40
Then learn how to be concise. It’s only polite.
LikeLike
xsplat–
Words of wisdom.
Priceless.
LikeLike
This is what is most puzzling about you.
Fun Question: Would David be friends with non-date if he could score the SWPL women as friends?
Wellesley Queen is an interesting case since I viewed her as better than me, and while I enjoyed her company, and I loved hugging her to death, I’ll admit that I wanted to be around her because she was better than me. In other words, she was going places, and I wanted to be her loyal sycophant in order to get a small slice of the upper middle class. Hell, I sorta figured that marriage to her would be a miserable sexless affair with no porn, but if she wanted me, I’d ride out for as long as I’d have to get my kids into an Ivy.
OTOH, another female friend who I’m still friends with is fun to be around, and she embraces my geeky side. I love hanging around her and doing stuff with her. I have nothing to use from her, and quite frankly, it makes for a better and healthier friendship without much stress and paranoia.
LikeLike
The best you get out of it is the occasional hug
I must add that Wellesley Queen and I hugged every time we met. Usually one hug when we meet, and then one when we left. Best hugs ever, and it was sometimes better than a hug from mom. 🙂
OTOH, I’ve had some shitty hugs from girls. They initiated the hugs, and it still felt weak and lackluster. Shudder.
LikeLike
Sara I
Night-time operations are the only way to go
LikeLike
DA-
The way to go for you David Alexander is to find a Wellesley Queen who’s a real slut. And enough of a big breasted, does her nails, looker. A high sex drive girl who’s also what you like about WQ, who also has not ideological or other strong, deeply ingrained belief in monogamy (for herself) or the wrongs of female slutitude. Many harder core feminists have such views.
Then you sell her on the value of your devoted friendship, adoring, serving her, love, and your grant to her of complete sexual freedom.
However you’d also have to have some kind of at least passably decent job. Something that didn’t embarass her excessively. Money might well not be nearly as important for WQ as social passability.
Then you become her cuckold. You revel in her sexual exploits, which she tells you in a kind of initimate and loving, but also dominating and humiliating detail.
(How do I know? Well I was once on the other male side of this. And webbed it a bit during.)
I think that’s your best realistic destiny DA. Not so manly, but yes, sexual. Actually could be very sexual, with a hot and very doing it wife, who earns more than you, that you live sexually vicariously through most of the time, and some of the time directly.
She gains a loyal and complicitous husband to her slutty and multiplicitous desires. Somewhat a gay friend husband, but one who sexually worships and adores her, and does her bidding.
Match made in DA heaven?
LikeLike
Why not notch it up? I know that some men’s wives hunt fresh pussy for them as tokens of devotion. That kind of devotion is sure to keep a man within a marriage!
DA could offer men to his wife.
LikeLike
By the way, a husband once did exactly that to me, and as I was in a time of need, I graciously accepted. They were very warm hosts. And I liked their kids too.
LikeLike
DA–
Oh, and you’d have to be very accomplished and enthusiastic, not make that devoted, at oral It’s part of the job description.
LikeLike
Hey, why didn’t I get a grade? My entry was on March 11 at 5:16 PM.
My entry was here.
LikeLike
Tood
Socially needy. Beta.
Though you don’t always seem so. Higher beta working up to alpha?
Actually, I don’t really subscribe to these Rossy categories as real things. Reality is continuous and also interwoven, but Roissy’s hierarchies are a kind of simplifying device that I sure prefer to the hyper American feminist ones.
LikeLike
Match made in DA heaven?
Haha, funny joke.
The problem with that your arrangement is that I’m much too stubborn and pride filled to be a cuckhold. I may run around and tell self-deprecating jokes, but I don’t think that I could stoop to that low. It’s one thing to be a good friend to a female, but it’s another to be in what should be a sexual relationship, and allow another male to impugn upon that delicate balance. If I go into a sexless marriage, there is going to be a sexless husband and a sexless wife.
Quite frankly, it’s one thing to enter a sexless marriage and get money or higher rank. It’s another to become a humiliated tool and have nothing in return, and I won’t tolerate being humiliated in such a fashion. David is NOT a cuckhold and derives no pleasure from being a cuckhold. I’d rather be alone and single than be the sexless playtoy for a woman and her alpha.
Hell, my mistress cheated on her boyfriend to have sex with me…
David Alexander is to find a Wellesley Queen who’s a real slut. And enough of a big breasted, does her nails, looker.
Well, if Wellesey Queen had nails and big tits and an open sex drive, she’d shift from being a female friend that I had a sycophantic crush on to being a girl that I want to bang now. The problem is girls like that tend to be on the trashy side, and lack the capability or desire to move ahead socially like Wellesley Queen. She was a Scots-Irish girl trying to sneak her way into the WASP world.
Plus, admittedly, betting on her to rise would be a bad bet since she openly stated her desire to become a stay at home mother to her kids, and she was willing to put her career on hold for that. She wanted kids by thirty, and she’d rather have the kids than be glorious. This ended up being a source of contention between the two of us since I thought it was a waste of her college degree and intelligence to become a stay at home mother and not progress in a potential political career. Interestingly, she said I misinterpreted feminism…
Fun Fact: Wellesley Queen hated my mistress, and became visibly upset when I mentioned her.
LikeLike
Tood,
Next time, bring your WWE game. I have a bootcamp coming up that is usually $10,000 for the weekend and worth at least $15,000, intrinsically speaking. However, since times are hard, and because I value my customers’ improvement SO much (because I am obviously such an altruist), I am offering enrollment for a LIMITED TIME for only five thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine dollars. Or, for those of you who are serious about taking your WWE game to the next level, I am able to accept three installment payments of twenty one fifty.
Let me assure you, we roll with the hottest divas from the jump. My bootcamp will include guest appearances by a rotisserie of famous wingmen, including (but not limited to) Earthquake and Tugboat, the Bushwackers, Oriental Express (for the TJF in all of us), and of course, the New Age Outlaws, who will help you refine and perfect your crotch-chops. We specialize in developing the “hot tag” within every introverted male student, so that when a female has been “working over” your wingman for several minutes and drawing heat from the crowd, he can literally crawl over to you and, at the last possible second, concede the interaction to your fresh momentum. You will learn to execute a succession of power-moves pulled off in a short period of time, possibly on multiple opponents. Additionally, you are (practically) guaranteed to pull off a finishing move, and some of my students have executed MULTIPLE finishing moves one after another!
Now, I understand there are literally HUNDREDS of people reading this message board, but in order to give my customers as much attention as absolutely possible, I am FORCED to limit enrollment to EIGHT guys at a time. This creates a heavy backorder for my time, so I encourage you to contact me as soon as possible to secure your place. I wish all of you the best of luck in your pursuits!
LikeLike
The problem with whores, is that they tend to make poor Madonnas.
The problem with choosing the chicken salad, is that it tends to make a poor hamburger. Just pick something off the fucking menu and eat it! Didn’t you even notice that you are starving?
I had a dream last night, in which I introduced to my high-school crowd a particularly trashy and insanely sexy girlfriend. The short, mini-skirted and pantyless sex vixen with the soap-suds brain. The tension was spectacular, and touched all parts of me.
On the one hand, the high school socialites were respectable, kind, open, warm hearted and sincere. On there other, here was this on fire sex vixen.
Hmmm. Let me think on this choice.
The tension in that scene was that the socialites had never met a vixen. It was puzzling to them.
You can’t mix and match though. The vixen was just way too extreme to ever fit into any social scene. And the socialites were way to socialised to ever be extreme.
So, you eat one meal at a time. But you got to choose.
LikeLike
Hey, why didn’t I get a grade?
You didn’t follow directions. The test wasn’t what you should’ve done.
LikeLike
xsplat —
Pricelessly true.
But they do make great whores. Who are great. I mean the feeling it kind, scarce in the US of A, which may in fact have the worst whores on earth, certainly for the money. Always exceptions.
Feminism.
LikeLike
David Alexander–
What a fun and funny interjection DA! Your MISTRESS!! How impressive.
You mean the girl you tried to have sex with once, your first time, and only sorta did? Prematurely? Limply?
That mistress?
That sole sexual intercourse experience for you, in your what about 26 years?
LikeLike
tokyojesus does not need an answer, he/she needs a head-shot.
LikeLike
That mistress?
Yeah, but I call her that for lack of a better and more creative name. And yes, we had sex three times, and she was the only woman I’ve ever had sex with. Her oral sex delivered me to orgasm, but the immediate sex afterwards didn’t bring me to orgasm. At least she catered to my nail fetish.
I had a dream last night, in which I introduced to my high-school crowd a particularly trashy and insanely sexy girlfriend.
It sounds similar to some of the online roleplaying that I used to do via IMs back in the early days of college. Get a bitchy or boring girl to meet up with a oversexed, empty headed girl with the phsyical attributes of a porn star and use various methods that only work in fantasy or sci-fi to convert her into a de facto clone. I used to waste immense amounts of time on that stuff, and I still read similar erotic stories once every so often.
The problem with whores, is that they tend to make poor Madonnas.
As a porn addict, I must admit, the problem with watching and masturbating to large amounts of porn is that while it’s easy to imagine a favourite porn star in a fantasy, it’s hard to imagine a normal woman that you find attractive in a similar position. In other words, you can easily imagine a porn star sucking you off, but the mental images of a normal girl just can’t be processed easily. She just doesn’t compare visually to the porn star.
So, some of us wish for a Madonna whore combination that exists in the same place as pink ponies and unicorns.
Didn’t you even notice that you are starving?
The problem is that I have a (poor) substitute in porn which makes the Madonnas less valuable, and well, I don’t want to cheat on the Madonna if I ever stumble upon a whore. If I’m still using porn while in a relationship with a girl, it seems kinda pointless….
LikeLike
DA, do you consider yourself inflexible?
I know some people prefer the terms moral; righteous; proper; pricipled; and dignified.
But how about it? Can you even imagine any aspect of your self changing?
LikeLike
But how about it? Can you even imagine any aspect of your self changing?
To become some guy who uses game? No, primarily because it brings up awful nightmares about “acting” like a ghetto thug.
To become a bit wiser and stronger, and possibly more caring and loving, that’s always possible.
To become normal and bang regular girls? We’ll see if I become desperate and stop holding out in the next few years.
LikeLike
If you 1) started a weight lifting regimen and 2) did some hormone replacement therapy to increase testosterone, then you would be compelled to fuck actual pussy. That is not correlation, that is causation. It would happen. You would be compelled to do whatever it takes.
And your madonna/complex is so tainted with your morality as to be a morass I can’t stand the stink of. Get over your god damned morals. You take yourself so seriously, and other people so seriously, as if everyone is a fragile care bear to be hugged. Fuck the care bears. Literally. Fuck right in their little fuzzies.
The squirminess of your speech repulses me. Everything anyone says to encourage you to fuck, you wriggle out of, with this deliberate uber-beta attitude. As if being the anti-man could ever be a moral stance.
LikeLike
started a weight lifting regimen
Sensible option with no wiggle room for excuses. It just requires me to not be cheap about buying the weights, and I have to avoid being lazy and actually lift weights on a frequent basis.
did some hormone replacement therapy to increase testosterone
I refuse to do that. I am not fucking around with my hormones unless directed by a doctor.
And your madonna/complex is so tainted with your morality as to be a morass I can’t stand the stink of.
It’s not even a moral issue per se. I simply find women in porn to be more sexual because their appearance screams fuck me, while the appearance of most women in real life do not induce such thoughts. The women who dress as close as possible to that in real life are more likely to induce such thoughts than girls who don’t.
As if being the anti-man could ever be a moral stance.
It’s not really a moral stance per se, but simply a choice one makes on comfort and convenience. As my niece said, I’m still a misogynist for not asking nice girls out on dates.
The squirminess of your speech repulses me.
Somehow, I enjoy knowing that my words managed to evoke such feelings in you. I’ll sleep well knowing that I may have possibly driven you to anger. 🙂
LikeLike
DA: OTOH, I’ve had some shitty hugs from girls. They initiated the hugs, and it still felt weak and lackluster. Shudder.
Tits, DA. If you were my beta male friend on questionable grounds of attraction (by which I mean, I was unsure whether you had a thing for me or not), I would only hug you loosely; I don’t want to press my breasts hard against you and later wonder if you were spinning in circles from the contact. I have male friends because all that psychoanalyzing every gesture, word and phrase I get from my female friends.
That came out harsher than I liked.
LikeLike
Rum
I deserve to be murdered for questioning game? You’re clearly not overreacting at all.
LikeLike
Sigh. Ya, troll. You’ve been between an inch and a millimeter away from my “do not disturb” pile of blog posters, but, uh, I’m afraid it’s to disengage.
That’s a fucked up attitude bespeaking of a fucked up personality. I don’t need that brand of pain in my life. Pointless shithead.
Fuck you and you little dog Toto too.
LikeLike
— Sensible option [a weight lifting regimen] with no wiggle room for excuses. It just requires me to not be cheap about buying the weights, and I have to avoid being lazy and actually lift weights on a frequent basis.
Buying weights is likely to result in your getting bored with them real quick. Just see all that home gym equipment available on Craigslist.
Better plan: joing a gym and meet with a trainer who will set you up with a workout schedule. Without a trainer’s advice, you’ll just mess around with weights and get bored quickly. You can also injure yorself by attempting too much too soon. The muscles are often stronger than the tendons and ligaments, fooling you into overestimating your lifting ability.
A trainer, on the other hand, will set you up with a progressive lifting regimen that will probably seem insultingly easy at first, but within six weeks you’ll notice your arms and chest getting bigger and more solid. Seeing progress will motivate you to stick with it and work out even if you’re feeling lazy or tired that day.
— I refuse to do that [hormone replacement therapy to increase testosterone]. I am not fucking around with my hormones unless directed by a doctor.
Only dummies mess with mother nature for no good reason. I’d even avoid the GNC protein drinks, since many doctors say they harm the liver.
LikeLike
“Eww, you gamed your mom?“
Moms are women too. Somebody should develop a new genre, family game.
BTW why does every damn post end up hijacked DA and that lame tokyoguy? Dave, guys, just STOP answering them for christs sake.
LikeLike
Tokyo,
OK, just for the sake of argument, let’s agree that Game is “hypocritical and inconsistent”. Fine.
So what? Meaning, why does it matter so much to you? Clearly you don’t think very highly of Game, nor of its practitioners. And, you have a superior way of meeting a nice lady for longterm relationship.
So, why does this whole thing matter to you so much? What are you getting out of it?
I’m serious in asking this, and hope that you will give as serious an answer. Thanks.
O
LikeLike
Obsidian
You’re just trying to change the subject. You want to talk about me instead of the actual subject. A popular and extremely annoying tactic.
LikeLike
Yea Obsidian, you’re being annoying. Be more like Tokyo instead.
LikeLike
I recommend that Tokyo be ignored. He does not respect good-faith attempts at a conversation and toys with people who try to talk with him reasonably.
LikeLike
He was obviously trying to change the subject, so you’re going after the wrong person.
LikeLike
Me troll you all good!
LikeLike
You don’t even know what that word means.
LikeLike
I’m slowly developing a theory of mind regarding trolls. I’m guessing they truly despise themselves. They feel unredeemable. They have a malaise of the soul. They feel not unloved, but unloveable.
Maybe they don’t quite despise themselves – as that would take some sort of conviction, of which they are incapable, as that would take some sort of self-trust, which they can not have, because they despise themselves, but they do feel completely unworthy.
And so, in order to get any kick out of life, these curs try to gain power over those that do feel worthy, that do feel loved.
No matter what it takes, in order to get any sort of upper hand, they aim to make people pissed off.
Because they can’t engage in human ways. Even if they tried. Which may be why they feel so unworthy. Because… THEY REALLY ARE!
I’m guessing trolls have some sort of developmental disability disorder that makes them unable to have empathetic and responsible human interaction that is grounded in a sense of mutual enjoyment and curiosity.
They are broken people. And sometimes, you’ve got to deal with a broken person as a broken person. Not as a real person. As the sociopath should be treated differently than a real person should. Sociopaths are not real people. Trolls are not real people.
They are vampires of the human spirit, forever hungry, forever undead.
Trolls are not people too. They deserve neither pity, nor love, as they can feel inside their heart neither. They deserver masturbation and a huge porn collection, and an xbox. They don’t deserve an internet connection.
LikeLike
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Inflammatory? Check. Irrelevant? Check. Off-topic? Check.
Attempts to provoke an emotional response? Check. Disrupt normal on-topic discussion? Check.
LikeLike
Who are you two even talking about?
LikeLike
And if i killed David Alexander it would be illegal? Amazing
LikeLike
Me not understand. Me play innocent now. Me go look at hentai in meantime.
LikeLike
I’m not quite digging your vibe, Seeking, as there is no face to face here. If you were implying that my post was trolling, you could just as easily be recursive and see your own that way. Not to rejoin an “I know you are but what am I” with the same, but noticing and describing trolls who troll a thread is not trollish. Unless you noticing that is trollish. And around we go.
LikeLike
This blog really is quite something. Many users, like Beijing Allah Knee, go utterly off the rails and off the deep end when they lose an argument or when someone says something they don’t like. Complete meltdowns.
LikeLike
xsplat – Relax buddy. I didn’t even see your post on trolls. I wrote my post in response to TJF’s You don’t even know what that word means.
LikeLike
Tokyo, what you mean? What that have to do with this conversation? Why you changing subject?
LikeLike
Tokyo,
No, I’m not trying to change the subject at all; we’re discussing Game, which in the end, is about people and how they interact. You’ve stated on numerous occasions that you do not think very highly of Game, which I can respect; everything aint for everybody.
What I’m trying to understand is, why one who has openly and often said they think Game is booty, wants to stick around in such a venue? Why is it necessary to do so? What is such a person getting out of it?
I think it fair to say that most of the posters here have their reasons for coming here and posting and interacting with others. I certainly do. What isn’t as clear, Tokyo, is why you’re here. Especially in light of the fact that you’ve stated that you basically disagree with everything that Game stands for.
So, I was just hoping I’d get a better understanding on what motivates you in this regard.
Thanks.
O
LikeLike
“Never remind a girl that she is
a. walking away from you
b. giving you a hard time
c. acting like a bitch
d. ignoring you
It will only reinforce her unflattering impression of you.”
This is an intriguing critique. I’ve shared this written passage with quality friends of mine – fully half believe calling her on those bullshit tactics is the manly (and correct) thing to do.
Having read most of the Game-oriented blog posts here, my gut tells me roissy is correct, but I just can’t put my finger on just why.
Most of you, here, are intelligent (except re trolls lol) – WHY do YOU think the above works so well?
LikeLike
S.A.
I’ve laxed before, and I can lax again.
I can try damn hard at it. I’ll be the best damn laxer you’ve ever seen. Aint no one can lax better than me. What? What?! You think you are a better laxer?!!!
LikeLike
Obsidian
What if the same developmental delay that disabled grown-up talk also disabled introspection?
They say that is what happens to the fried brains of those with BPD.
I’m guessing take a pinch of Aspergers, throw in a pinch of BPD, and you’ve got yourself an internet troll.
Either way, YOU are wasting YOUR time trying.
I know about wasting time with people incapable of introspection, as I’ve racked up years worth of dealing with BPD trait rich “people”. One was so insanely developmentally impaired as to occasionally see shit in the air. She needed meds. At that severity, give up all hope of inspiring introspection, ye who enter here.
I keep saying it. Some people are fucked up, and can not be redeemed. Unless by their own will. Which they may or not find in this life.
LikeLike
Trolls are not people too. They deserve neither pity, nor love, as they can feel inside their heart neither. They deserver masturbation and a huge porn collection, and an xbox. They don’t deserve an internet connection
wrong. Trolls deserve connection to multiplayer rooms with ttheir xboxes. But not www connection.
LikeLike
No, scratch that. A sociopath can not find the will to stop being a sociopath, and even if he did, could not stop being a sociopath.
find your own Implications.
And that’s all I’ve got to say about that.
LikeLike
Ironically enough, it is xsplat who is currently engaged in blatant trolling.
LikeLike
<blockquote?wrong. Trolls deserve connection to multiplayer rooms with ttheir xboxes. But not www connection.
Correct. While I, on the other hand, deserver a Lawnmower Man style internet hookup.
I’ll be good to ya’ll, and the deserved elite can join me in Lawnmower Man space. The sex will be as sublime and divine as two quasars making out and exploding in unison near a pair of orbiting black holes. Time and space will quiver, inside and outside will lose meaning, and we will blow all sense as we become who we really are – again – united to the unknowable vast timelessness.
Like sex can be.
Oh, and then we can get into some orgies, in Lawnmower Man virtual reality enhanced by silicon enhanced brains hooked up wirelessly to the Over-Net. Some orgies in which we can feel each other, not just seem to feel each other. Empathy that is more than mirror neurons, but wirelessly connected mirror neurons, networked endlessly.
I’ll be there for that internet connection.
The trolls won’t. They don’t deserve it.
LikeLike
wait, who let the tokyojesusfist back onto this board? I thought we had a rule about autistic retards being on silent time.
LikeLike
Learn about hypnotism, NLP, setting the frame, the cognitive effects of subliminal associations. They all rely on the same principle, which is context. Take any word, and it’s meaning comes largely not from the dictionary, but from the words that lay beside it.
It’s the same for any interaction.
As an example, in movie theaters in LA a few years ago, gang violence erupted when the screen showed gang violence. People got primed to be pissed off, then someone made a snarky comment, and the next thing you know, it’s on.
Setting the mood is more important than making a point, expecially with women. Set the context. Make associations between what she does that you like, and good feelings that you give her.
Think of training a cat. Don’t think of training a dog. You can’t smack a cat. And you’ll never break the spirit of a cat, and enslave her completely. You have to make the cat associate you with the whir of the electric can opener and the feeling of being petted.
Negs are not to train the cat. They are to show the cat that you are dominant.
LikeLike
lurker
Oh great, you’re going to start stalking me again. Are you still bitter about losing that debate?
LikeLike
I just found a picture of David Alexander on the internet:
LikeLike
lmao rolf tokyojesusfist. only an autistic retard like you could think lying/trying to argue you weren’t lying/running away/getting laughed at=winning an argument.
lol, clown.
LikeLike
Tomorrow I’ll go to the beach. Anyone to teach me or direct me towards some kind of beach game? Yes, beach, not biatch. Please. Thank you.
LikeLike
Why Tokyo keep changing subject?
LikeLike
And there you have it: apparently a woman’s pussy has more personality, and deserves to be treated more individually, than the woman herself.
It makes sense, actually, if you consider the woman to simply be an obstacle that has to be overcome in order to get to the pussy. It’s kind of analogous to being friendly with a woman’s friends for the sole purpose of gaining her graces through social proof, and just as disingenuous.
LikeLike
Anyone to teach me or direct me towards some kind of beach game?
When I was 13 my friend’s mom took me and him to the beach in Ocean City, MD. He and I were hanging out, and see a couple of hot “older women” in bikinis sun-tanning nearby.
One girl in particular got our attention… brown bikini top and bottom, long dirty-blonde hair, as I recall. Reading a book. Her girlfriends (including a fat cow) were a few feet away, talking with each other.
My buddy and I get into a cockfight: arguing (in hushed tones) over which one of us saw the “brown bilkni” girl first. I was by no means a natural, or a pick up artist, mind you. In fact, I was crippled by shyness due to my awkward too-tall-puberty-lankiness and foreign accent. (My buddy was American, no accent)
But arguing with the dude got me motivated; I partly wanted to show off and show him up, and partly felt the adrenaline surging, since our antagonism to one another started spiking.
So, I did the exact opposite of what I would normally do in this situation: I got up, and walked up to this girl.
It was the early 1980s. I was as cool as I they come: Risky Business sunglasses (cheap knockoff brand), jams bathing shorts, and a subdued mullet – not full-out white trash, just a hint of one. And a peachfuzz moustache – shazzam!
So I stand over this girl, and say “Hi”
She looks up at me, and says hi back. Not hostile, just mild-friendly neutral. I tell her my name, she tells me hers. I asked her how old she is (mind you, I was 13 years old; that’s as smooth as I was gonna be.)
She said that she is 19. (Dawm! what a hot old broad, I thought). I was actually a bit encouraged by her apparent friendliness. But, I wasn’t too sure what to say next. I was staring at her body, trying to smile, and trying to keep the conversation going while feeling something getting fat in my swim trunks.
We exchanged a few other words, I don’t remember what at this point, and I went back to my buddy. Like a conqueror.
He was completely blanched. Jaw agape. He couldn’t believe his eyes, that I actually went up and “made a move” on an older woman.
Heh. I always had that over him. So thereyago: beach game.
By the way, the friend was Ace, my o m e g a male friend. His o m e g a – hood was not apparent at that age yet.
LikeLike
“I’m slowly developing a theory of mind regarding trolls.”
Xsplat, you are such a Drama Queen!!! Don’t you remember when you were 6 or 11 and you were always asking people “What?” And, when they would answer to you, you would reply “What?” again. And again ad aeternus.
They troll because they have nothing better to do and like the children know, to troll gives them a lot of pleasure and satisfaction. Don’t you think the fist of Tokyo is saying to his three nerdy Asian freinds: “Boy, see how this Americans are stupid! They keep answering and answering me.”
LikeLike
PA,
thank you but it hardly works something for me. I’d like women my age or a little bit older due to the more probable easy sex. And, for the first time of my life, now I really figure girls younger than me attractive, I mean, really atractive. To such an extent that I have wondered about what is virtuous or not in term of age difference, and where does pedophilia starts: Not legal pedophilia but my own interior concept of pedophilia.
About game: I don’t think aproaching a girl like that is good game. I would like something more elaborate. Anyone?
LikeLike
PA
You took the number one rule of social discourse (hold peoples attention), and turned it into art.
A story teller is among us.
LikeLike
Note, please, that I’m assuming the stance of the giver of Kudos.
And that I’ve earned that stance.
LikeLike
I once gamed a girl while explaining in detail how game worked.
My game was rudimentary NLP stuff, but the mechanics of the explanation did not detract from the fact of the attraction. If anything, being able to be articulate while being emotional was a turn on.
LikeLike
I got up, and walked up to this girl.
See, I could never do that because the last thing that I want is for her to dismiss me as a beta tool, and then laugh at me with her friends. It’s far easier to lurk in the shadows where nobody can make fun of you.
LikeLike
V@40 shares IPs with a previous poster. Oh, and he’s gay, and not out of the closet yet, to himself.
LikeLike
Yeah right. I am gay and share IPs with other posters.
Just suck my big two, right Dramma Queen?
LikeLike
But I could be wrong V@40. I’ve imbibed slightly, and both eyes may not be agreeing with each other. Maybe I’m not seeing you straight.
As for liking younguns, yup, me too. I’m no pedo though, as my mirror neurons fire up fine still. But liking and even loving them? No problem. Some fine romance is prebuscent romance. They can love you up like you are an angel, without even really knowing what a dick is for. That’s fine. Love her back. It’ll pass, and she’ll forget she ever had a crush on you. Don’t forget you had a crush on her though, that little angel.
I think the first time some of us see 20 somethings as attractive is the first time we see them as attainable. As a young tweenager, I found older women accomadating. In a more steady way than the hippity hoppity she-rabbits. And wiser. And just dandy in the sack. It took learning confidence over the younguns to find them as appealing.
LikeLike
That’s Drama King, to you, Mister.
LikeLike
Those who feel compelled to defend game against tokyojesusfist are fighting the wrong battle, and have not wielded the ultimate weapon in the field. “Game” has only two true vulnerabilities:
1. The Pragmatic: In the field, the natural alphas get the hot girls regardless of what true betas, high betas, betas with game say and do. Alpha can say all kinds of ‘beta’ shit, stupid shit, but he WILL get the hot girl, or she will go home lonely – never happily with the lesser man. Law of the Jungle. Whether its the guy in the band, the star athlete, or simply the older guy home from college, we’ve all seen it happen, and some of us have benefitted from it. It is a law that renders practiced game irrelevant, except for making the strong stronger and widening the pussy gap. It is exactly why women’s personalities and clothes are irrelevant. It works against men b/c hot girls are shallow, superficial and manipulative.
2. The Theoretical: Game amounts to “faking” true alphaness. Alpha as Leader of Men. Is the alpha a silverback gorilla, warrior, provider and father; or is he a lion or tiger, a solitary, opportunistic predator? Steve Sailer was saying become a true alpha, the silverback, and you won’t need game.
Now, the Practitioners on this blog are out there all the time, practicing, learning, winning and losing, and ultimately fighting against #1. It is what we battle every time we go out. The Theoreticals here are getting tangled up in all kinds of abstraction because there are trolls and retards all over this blog. While the practitioners here have something to gain from some of the theoretical discussions, question #2 is the only relevant issue for those that obsess about the philosophical or theoretical basis of game.
LikeLike
In Buddhism, we train in compassion, until we feel it innately.
Your question is dualistic.
You ask, is compassion innate, or fake? Is game faking it?
Fake it till you make it.
You are hung up on the first part, and can’t put your mind around the second.
LikeLike
“I think the first time some of us see 20 somethings as attractive is the first time we see them as attainable.”
Attainable and attractive are not synonyms to me. What the heck! My biggest problem in girl’s affairs is to thrive for the unattainable.
And, Dude! I am not 40 years old: “I think the first time some of us see 20 somethings as attractive is the first time we see them as attainable”. Any 20 years old is older than me. And by younger girls I meant about 16 years or something, and trust me, some of those may not dig dicks yet, but they for sure know what they are for. And it really doesn’t matter, I know if it’s not my dick today, it will be my neighbour’s dick tomorrow or the next week.
I got stuck in the High School and now, I see girls younger than me that… I think “damn, I for sure know what I’ll do to you”. That never happened before, I never saw girls more than one year younger than me as somewhat attractive. That was the ‘pedo I was talking about. It’s not 5 years old or something…
LikeLike
V@40.
Oh.
LikeLike
There might be some juice in that thought. Let’s squish all those thoughts together and see what we get.
Sorry – nothin. Just unrequited lust.
The blue ball years. Or weeks. Same thing at that age.
It’s too tumultuous a time to receive advice. Go for the True Love? Go for the skank? How the hell should we know?
LikeLike
Issue Spotter:
Well said.
However, in scenario #2, anyone who becomes a master of their domain through hard work had better sharpen their game as well. As another commenter noted, Steve Sailor may be caught in the mentality that one solitary thing (such as money) is the difference maker and the end all to cleaning up with girls. Girls can initially be attracted to success but they can definitely turn off like a light switch at a moments notice if the game isnt tight. As usual naturals need not worry.
LikeLike
“It’s too tumultuous a time to receive advice. Go for the True Love? Go for the skank? How the hell should we know?”
What can I say, despite you claiming me as gay, I always liked girls. But, when I turned 12, I started to feel un urge to do something more to girls than merely looking at them (mainly because I ceased to like only adult girls and started to see that girls my age had become relatively nice), and even the contemplation ceased to be only of a beautifull thing, like a beautifull animal, and became filled with, let’s call it sexual tension and became also much more refined. Then I spent three years liking every time more and more a girl. We were already friends. But I was too Beta for her although I could have some intimacy with her. Nothing happened but two (small, innocent) kisses playing “thruth or dare” or something close to it. I even gave space to one of my best friends who told me he liked her first. Three years with nothing pursuing a kind of love.
Then I went to highschool. There I spent one year in an awfull class. Didn’t know nobody, only one girl above 7. It was also the first time some person close to me died so it was an awfull year. Then, in another class, I was amazed by girl I saw for the first time. We eventually became friends but I wanted much more, though I could not have her. She is a 10 in my opinion. Three years I spent seeing that piece of heaven unable to do nothing and even more amazed by her non-bitchy-ness. No other girl was interesting. Now we kind of departed ways and here I am.
She is a ten and not only in looks, I bellieve. And she changed me. She made me realise that, if I ever wanted somone like her, I had to man the fuck up. And then I discovered game and how clear and basic and pratical it is, and how it really works (from the litle I have expirienced). Game became a simple, logical and plausible explanation to what seemed “unkownalbe” I discovered how fool I was/am and how “Beta” I still am.
The skank?
No thanks, I do not like skanks. But I am a virgin and I need to catch up. The libido is present as well and while usually I wouldn’t even consider less than an 8, now I’m even consider some 6s. I am not interested in nothing serious with skanks, but there are a lot of kinds of skanks. I have had to flew some skanks, but I would definetly dig some others. It depends how skanks they are.
In the end, ONE DOES WITH GAME WHAT HE WANTS TO, right? And GAME IS TO MAN, WHAT LOOKS IS TO WOMEN, right? I lack game and I don’t think I look too good as well. But I never really tried nothing.
Honestly, what I want is to “MAN THE FUCK UP”, try something, for a change, and do girls. Not true love (it would be too perfect to be real and it’s part of the process of man up to be real) and preferably, not skanks. And, by considering the girls I actually do (I whish), I’d eventually found a “true (or less true) love” in one of them.
I also have to start losing stupidly the small oportunities one encounters sometimes.
P.S. Again, sorry for the long post but I am not demanding you to read it anyway.
LikeLike
lurker
I have not lied, nor have I ran away.
Virgin@40
What Asian friends? I don’t have any Asian friends. And what evidence do you have to support your claim that I’m a troll?
LikeLike
Boy, I will not play that game with you. you *are* a troll, period.
“What Asian friends? I don’t have any Asian friends.”
The sad fact that apearently not even your kind can handle like you is a good claim for your status as a troll. 🙂
Let’s not get personally. Hate the game, not the player.
LikeLike
“This cop-out is becoming a little too ubiquitous in the pickup community.”
Wow, the courageous Roissy sure is shying away from being specific all of a sudden, isn’t he?
If he wants to say that the VH1 guy and Roosh are wrong (since this is their advice), he should stop hiding behind timid corporate-speak and call them out by name.
LikeLike
Virgin@40
That’s not how it works. When you accuse someone of being a troll, you have to provide evidence or reasoning to support your claim.
I’m not Asian, and I don’t live anywhere near Asia, so how exactly are Asians “my kind”? Please explain.
LikeLike
Me not Asian, me just wuv ugry Asian girls & obsessed with Asian culture like most losers! Because Asian girl much easier! Me not need silly “game” with ugry Asian girl! Wataaaa!
LikeLike
Damn, looks like Stormfront is offline again. On the bright side, this blog is full of people like you, so you shouldn’t get too homesick in here.
LikeLike
Why you change subject? We exact same. We ruv Asian girls but not Asian ourselves. We not need “game”, because ugry Asian girls easy. “Game” silly – me agreeing with you. Me thought you friend. Me sad, need to watch Hentai cheer up.
LikeLike
Here’s a tip to the “watch my comments, ye mighty, and despair” demigods who just … can’t … stay away: if you have to troll, try not to be such tedious crashing bores about it. Elementary blog game.
LikeLike
What is the proper response to “I don’t give out my number, but I’ll give you my email”? It seems really beta to meekly accept the email.
What is the proper response to “I can’t give out my number, I have a boyfriend”? (happened to me last week)
LikeLike
Obsidian
A few postings ago you compared Game to Jedi sword techniques. I enjoyed that analogy and offer a fun comparison of my own.
I remember you saying you were studying Aikido. From what I understand, Aikido is not about defeating an opponent, it’s about redirecting an opponent’s energy, wasting his time, until he is exhausted and gives up. Have you noticed that TJFs posting/trolling techniques seem to resemble the Aikido Principles of: Circle, Triangle, Square. He opens with a weak attack designed to provoke an emotional reaction (Atemi). When people respond he quickly side steps their points (irimi), redirects the argument in a circular manner and disperses peoples mental energy rather than engage in reasoned discussion. The more attention he gets the more he redirects. He treats reasonable questions as neutral attacks (square) and attempts to off center his opponent by making unfounded criticisms. Mockery seems to off center him a bit as he keeps repeating the same Stormfront references.
I like your debating style Obsidian. It’s like boxing. You invite people into the ring, set the rules, go at it in a direct manner, fight as hard and clean as your opponent does, and shake hands when it’s over. Nothings personal and both people learn something.
LikeLike
Absinthe
I’ve noticed that everyone accuses me of trolling yet can’t provide any evidence to back it up. This same pattern repeats everywhere I go.
The notion that I don’t engage in reasoned in discussion is often repeated yet never substantiated.
Unfounded criticism seems to be your area of expertise.
I make references to Stormfront for a reason. Many users here (and elsewhere) absolutely hate Asian women, and become hysterical with rage if anyone, such as me, likes them. It’s racism, plain and simple.
LikeLike
tokyo
You are guilty of being a Troll until something else is proven. ( I do not here say “innocent” because no one here is innocent) But it is not our issue to prove, like you spitefully insist, that your posting has been devoid of any “reasonable discussion” Do not ask us to prove a negative.
It is just that days and days go by while you post and post and nothing you say ever contains a single useful thought. It is all “Look at Me”. I am posting!!!
Maybe it would be better if you were to be equipped with a squeaky toy – the kind that spurts out animal sounds whenever you squeeze it – but nobody needs to listen to it as if to learn anything worthwhile.
LikeLike
Rum
That’s not how it works. Burden of proof is on you.
Burden of proof is on you in this case as well.
Uh oh, burden of proof strikes again.
LikeLike
tokyojesusfist: Many users here (and elsewhere) absolutely hate Asian women, and become hysterical with rage if anyone, such as me, likes them. It’s racism, plain and simple.
Writing as a nubile young Chinese of the female persuasion: I (personally) have not encountered this blinding hatred you describe, but you’re not the first Rice King I’ve found. The dynamics of interracial-loving and fetishism aside, I find it particularly distressing which Asian women you, TJF, find attractive. However, the women you have promoted as beauties of the orient are subpar regardless of personal preference. This comes from a woman who has an incentive to agree with you, because she shares ethnic traits with these women.
Asian chicks are particularly tender and therefore require minimal game (if any), unless they pass a certain attractiveness threshhold, at which point they become like any other 9 or 10. Therefore, I conclude that you find these women attractive because they are the best you can get — ironically, you could probably hit respectable 6/7/8s if you weren’t spending so much time being an asshole.
On a slightly lighter note, if someone could inform me how to manifest those nifty pale grey quotation marks, I’d be much obliged.
LikeLike
vainofstars
Then you haven’t spent enough time reading this blog’s comments (and this isn’t the only place where I’ve witnessed such reactions, it happens pretty much everywhere).
Personal preference is all that matters, but according to what criteria are they supposed to be subpar? They look healthy and have no physical deformities or problems (such as obesity, bad skin or bad teeth), so from a biological perspective there’s nothing wrong with them. Ai Maeda is in line with Japanese standards for beauty, and indeed has to be since she’s an actress. Lee Young-ae is widely known and appreciated for her beauty, even outside Asia, and has had a long and successful career as a model and actress.
And why are you “distressed” by my preferences? Do they make you unable to sleep at night?
I live in a country that has few very Asians, and probably no Japanese and Korean women (to which I’m primarily attracted to), so claiming that Asian women are the best I can get doesn’t make any sense (I can’t get them at all). And it isn’t even true, because there isn’t special reason for why I find Asian women attractive. I just do.
It’s interesting that when someone announces that he likes Asian women, he not only has to deal with racists and Japanophobes howling for his blood, but also has to explain and justify his preference, as if there was something morally wrong or otherwise reprehensible about it.
Please share more insider information about my life. You’re obviously knowledgeable about the subject since you don’t even know where I live.
It’s the blockquote tag.
LikeLike
TJF
My little analogy was intended to be playful. I think you have skill in a sometimes amusing genre of online discussion. In the same spirit of bored playfulness I will continue for a bit, or until the absinthe runs out. Thanks for mentioning the block quote tag, lets see if I get them right.
Trying to get “everyone” to spend time looking up your postings or says that they don’ think you are a troll is a gentle entry. I liked that you mirrored my “have you noticed” comment. Mirroring is a classic technique in Japanese and Korean swordsmanship. Unfortunately by saying that everyone accuses you of being a troll everywhere you go you give energy to your critics, this is not the aikido way. If every doctor said you had an anal fistula every time you had a checkup, you would be well advised to take heed.
This is a much stronger entry. You are applying circular movement to take the energy of my phrase “reasoned discussion” and use it as a criticism of the people that call you a troll without actually naming them or citing any quotes other than mine. Excellent. Why waste time, energy and effort in a direct attack when you can parry with obliquity. Don’t think, Feel, live in the Now, it’s the Jedi way, errr Aikido way.
I wish it was an area of my expertise. Unfounded criticism is a great way to get people to waste their time on your agenda without effort on your part or giving them anything back in return. A well founded criticism of game requires research and thought. The people that use game would then take your criticism and make Game stronger. From what I have read you don’t seem to think to highly of game (intended irony). So why would you say or do anything that the people here could use to improve themselves or their knowledge of game.
When Obsidian asked you what you were getting out of discussing game you replied with
This effortlessly, almost reflexively ended the conversation and any interest Obsidian might ever have had in communicating with you and gave nothing of the remotest value in return. This was very well done.
The essence of Aikido is to win without doing harm. The essence of Trollkido is obliquitous attention seeking waste of time without effort or thought.
Anyway I have to go, thank you for indulging me. If you enjoy online discussions and want a place where no one will ever ban you check out http://www.irongarmx.net/. They have a reputation for being the worst troll pit on the net and a den of foul mouthed ignorant racist thugs but maybe they are just misunderstood. Drop by the free speech forum and introduce yourself.
LikeLike
Absinthe
You don’t have anything to back up your accusation, and I simply pointed that out.
That’s not what I said. I said that everyone accuses me of trolling but can’t prove it.
Why would I need to name anyone? That’s completely irrelevant.
It is.
He was trying to change the subject. People often use the Dr. Phil strategy when they can’t come up with anything else.
LikeLike
Is it so hard to ignore this guy?
answering trolls is bad for your inner game guys.
You should forget the need to answer to everything you are told to. Girls don’t dig that.
And most guys don’t either.
LikeLike
this is a test of game,
as was ignoring saucer-eyes
bad behavior.
this is like a bunch of professors arguing in the lounge over who didn’t make coffee
and the socio-economic emphasis of said act
zzzzzz
LikeLike
Given that you live in a country with few Asians, where exactly have you witnessed these reactions? Your claims are especially unusual since I have ample opportunity to be experience these “reactions”, being a minority in my country of residence and an actual Asian, as well as maintaining a large circle of non-Asian friends and acquaintances.
For discussion purposes, we are using the standard 1-10 scale. Must we waste space clarifying minutae that should be obvious?
Like many female Asian stars, Ai Maeda and Lee Young-Ae retain Caucasian characteristics such as big eyes, delicate noses, and cheekbones. Other female Asian celebrities, such as Joey Yung, that one would deem already very attractive, have gotten plastic surgery to mimic Caucasian features.
It’s interesting that when someone cannot amply explain himself, he cries foul and pulls the victim card. It’s interesting that I introduced myself as a nubile young Chinese woman in order to establish that you can’t pull that bullshit with me c:
I wrote this: “The dynamics of interracial-loving and fetishism aside, […]” to make it clear I wasn’t remarking on your (for lack of a more-precise term) fetish. What I AM remarking on is your poor taste in women in general (your 10 vs Ai Maeda).
Asiastic ethnicity appears to be your only standard for attractiveness. The anonymous girl above is nowhere near the likes of Ai Maeda — but to you they are both 10s. That’s not a preference, that’s an obsession.
You’ve rated the anonymous girl a 10 not because she’s a real looker, but because she’s the best you can get. I reiterate; ironically, you could probably hit respectable 6/7/8s if you weren’t spending so much time being an asshole.
At least DA can be humorous.
LikeLike
To me asian woman are the reason to wake up work long hours and succeed and a good enough reason to stay on this planet. Good Stuff.
LikeLike
Vainofstars.
I don’t apreciate Asian girls, but I like you baby! 🙂
LikeLike
And of course she has disappeared. I was hoping that someone would finally tell me why it’s such a crime against humanity to be attracted to Asian women. I guess I’ll just have to wait for the next person to freak out.
LikeLike
All these suggestions, none keeping it simple and keeping the eye on the ball.
She has already initiated some pretty brutal physical contact, opening up the playing field for you to do the same. Unlike your typical Conventional Chick, behaving inappropriately will be respected and appreciated by her, as will efficiency and directness. She doesn’t do coy or boring.
As she backsteps away, move forward, grab her by the arm, and force her to repeat the email address in your ear, get her to spell it out (it is necessary, trust me, chicks trying to be unique will misspell their names, like Ginniferr or some crap). She is backstepping away because she expects you to do this. Her posse is somewhat ignoring her on her birthday, she wants them to see her being chased a bit by a good looking fellow.
I know my strange, confident chicks (I do very well with them, much better than Conventional Chicks). She will not give you her number. Don’t try. She is most likely a writer or at least an avid reader of litera-tchur, so she expects to be wooed by your writing first. If you have writing game (which I do), have at it, brother. Else, get a friend who does to write on your behalf (remember, Cyrano is the King of Betas, Alpha Christian de Neuvillette gets the girl despite being an uneducated idiot).
You could classify email contact as beta, or you can go with the flow a bit and claim your prize.
LikeLike
You act more interested in what you did over the weekend than what she did. Show only token interest in making sure she is ok, and having a good time. End the conversation before she does. Lower to interest lever to below hers, keep your eye out for other women, and wait for her interest level to catch up.
LikeLike