I get a lot of emails from readers wondering how to “handle” when a woman says she loves you. The question is odd to me, because a woman who is truly in love with you will not suddenly run away if you deviate from the alpha script for half a second. Once you’ve captured a woman’s heart, you’ve got a healthy margin for error. Nonetheless, it is true that, while brief moments of temporary beta regression with a woman who loves you won’t doom your relationship, you have to be careful to avoid slipping into betadom on the regular or there *will* come a time when your woman suddenly loses that little electric zap in her trap for you.
A few thoughts on the matter of a woman saying “I love you”:
- NEVER be the first to say “I love you” in a relationship. I don’t care if six months of dating has gone by and you both madly love each other to pieces, you will rob a woman of one of her greatest joys in her life if you tell her you love her before she has told you the same. A woman wants to climb up mountains, crawl across broken glass, and struggle into winds of chaos to reach the emotional peak of falling in love with you. You may think you’re doing right by her to level the mountain, sweep clean the glass, and calm the winds when you announce your love before she has, but you’re not. She will resent you if you do. Of course, she won’t tell you this. But I will.
- You don’t have to be cocky all the time. There is a laundry list of great alpha replies to a woman after she says “I love you”: “Cool!”, “I know”, “Thanks!”, “Hey, it’s me!”, *sly grin* “I didn’t ask”, “Naturally”, “So you’ve finally come to terms with it”, “Well, what did you expect?”, “Damn, I’m good”, “Oh boy, now you’ve gone and done it”, “Awesome! Free back rubs!”, “Hobag say dick in yo mouf?”, etc etc. Use these liberally in the beginning of a relationship when they have the most power to set the right tempo. But learn to rely less on them as the relationship deepens. Overuse of cocky game can deaden its positive impact on a woman’s psyche. She will come to see you as a genuine asshole instead of an attractive asshole. After a few months training your girlfriend, you can minimize your cocky game in favor of sincere game.
- Sincere game is long haul game. So what do you say to a woman when she says I love you and you want to be serious with her? In my experience, there are three failsafe ways to respond that will send her heart into an ecstatic tailspin for you: (1) Pause for a couple seconds after she has said it, and while gazing intently into her eyes, in a deep, slow voice, say “I love you, too”. Best done without smiling. (2) Say nothing in reply. Instead come close to her face, pause for a few seconds standing before her as if you are about to say something, and slowly pull her lips into yours, kissing her breathless. (3) Tell her I love you too in a foreign language, preferably French, or one of the less well known but still intriguing languages, like Russian.
You should be aware of the possibility that your woman will use I love you like a weapon of war. Sometimes, the more neurotic of the female species will incessantly proclaim their love for you in an attempt to smoke out any beta wishy-washiness or weakness on your part. If you fall into her manufactured drama, pity-poor-me, low self-esteem trap with an endless stream of I love you too’s you will have sealed your fate. Don’t be surprised if the next time you say I love you too she replies “Umm, listen, we need to talk.” The best way to handle a neurotic waif is to ignore 90% of what she says. Just keep replying “That’s great” every time she lavishes attention and love on you. Eventually, even the most dedicated waifs will break. They all have their breaking point. Once she does, you have a love slave for life.
Final note: Don’t be one of those laughable nancyboy beta schmucks who feels the urge to perfunctorily say “Luvya” every fucking time you get off the phone with your girl. It’s pathetically transparent. If the rest of the world can see that, so can your girlfriend. It’s the phone; say your business and save your Luvya’s for those times when they matter. Asking her if she wanted the green or red bell peppers while browsing the veggies in Whole Foods is not one of those times. You’ll feel awkward at first when you stop signing off this way, but believe me your girl will thank you for your principled sincerity.
“Don’t be one of those laughable nancyboy beta schmucks who feels the urge to perfunctorily say “Luvya” every fucking time you get off the phone with your girl. It’s pathetically transparent.”
I hear people all the time – and mainly when speaking to family members, not a boyfriend-girfriend situation – sign off with “I love you”. Nothing convinces me more that people who say this have severe family problems then if they have to remind each other all the time how much they love each other.
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i like your use of the term “laughable nancyboy beta schmuck”.
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— NEVER be the first to say “I love you” in a relationship.
Why didn’t I read this blog in 1987 when I thought that saying it first makes ’em dig you more? There I was, with my skater bangs and parachute pants, fancying myself a lothario dripping with seductive words 😦
— You don’t have to be cocky all the time. […] She will come to see you as a genuine asshole instead of an attractive asshole.
An important point. Cocky game is meant to spice things up and break yourself from the call-response script once in a while. Yeah, if you overuse the cockiness, especially in really important or emotional situations, you’ll come across like you’re scared of connecting emotionally with her.
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Hey Roissy, just wondering what you thought of “Hitch”, as it was on last night.
Personally, I *hate* this movie (Will Smith trying to act annoys the crap out of me and romcom plot is painful), but some of his early movie, pre-beta-tude advice seems sound. For example, at one point he states that women respond to what someone says by the following break down: 60% how you look, 30% your tone, so that 90% of what you say isn’t what you say at all.
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The “luvya” sign-off cheapens actual expressions of love, and I sort of hate it, but since the husband started it way back when, I don’t like to leave him in the lurch.
Nothing less romantic than the perfunctory expression “luvya!” after a 30-second reminder to pick the eldest son up from preschool this afternoon.
Anyway, God, could it be that Roissy vaguely remembers what it’s like to have a soul? A Margin of Error, a smidgeon of forgiveness lurks in even the most freakishly neurotic girl’s heart?
Say it ain’t so?!
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Not much is said on the melding of Game with getting a female who’s a true keeper.
It’s near impossible to find a girl worth spending time on after I’ve nailed her. Women are worthless.
Reconciling “Game” with the realities of ltrs is fruitless when we consider the abysmal quality of women today. Their only use is that of self-cleaning spankrags.
No woman has value for an ltr any more. The ones that do, are still chasing after Brett Michaels lol
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but since the husband started it way back when, I don’t like to leave him in the lurch
Couples do need to rituals to reinforce their subconsciousness with being together. But yeah, the “iluvya” shouldn’t be a ritual. Better a quick kiss before/after coming home instead.
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This is a great post in response to a lot of what was being talked about in the last post’s comments. Completely agree with everything.
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Roissy wrote:
“Once you’ve captured a woman’s heart, you’ve got a healthy margin for error. ”
……………boy that sure is the truth. When a woman falls in love with a man, as long as he doesn’t go wussified on her, he can pretty much put on thirty pounds, smoke, drink, go to ball games EVERY weekend with the boys, be marginally employed, let his yard go to hell, flirt with other women right in front of her, you name it. She will make up every excuse in the world for all of it. Its amazing how men’s and women’s minds work in such different ways.
Another observation that Roissy made about women pre-emptively saying, “I love you”.
You bet your ass they will lie about the big, “I love you”, to see where they are in the relationship and if they can have you, or can play you for money, etc. If funny that men get portrayed as the players and liars so often, but relatively few men will lie to a woman he is fucking and say that he is in love with her pre-emptively. A woman however, will oft do this to a man even when her eye is still actively roaming so he will extricate himself from any other females in his life and prepare for an exclusive relationship with her——-“betaizing” himself at her leisure. She is still on the prowl all the while, looking to step up on him.
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I seen something last weekend that made me think civilization isn’t lost after all. At least not where i live.
I went to watch my seven year old nephews hockey game on Saturday.
I was sitting behind a women who was having a hard time with her 3 or 4? year old son. The kid was crying and arguing with her.
Mom says, ” last time i checked, i was the boss.”
Kid says, ” no your not.”
Mom says, ” no? who’ s the boss then?”
Kid says, ” Daddy.”
I laughed my fucking ass off.
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“For example, at one point he states that women respond to what someone says by the following break down: 60% how you look, 30% your tone, so that 90% of what you say isn’t what you say at all.”
Huh? This only makes sense if by “how you look,” he is talking about body language and fashion sense. I’d say that physical looks is more like 10-20% on average (if you’re incredibly handsome, it could be more like 30%, and if you’re a hairy, morbidly obese, troll-face it could obviously be as high as 60-70%).
Also, I think that the “it doesn’t matter what you say, but how say it,” sentiment can get taken way too far in the pickup community. It clearly accounts for more than 10% of a successful pickup; exquisite body language and fashion can certainly provoke an instantaneous vaginal twitch in a target, but only those who are both masters of this and naturally good-looking will be able to literally say whatever the fuck they want successfully (eg., ‘hey, wanna fuck?’ ‘I think i just fell in love’ etc.). So: even a man with great “looks” and “tone” can fuck up royally based on what he says, and, on the flip side, even a man with mediocre “looks” and “tone” can make up for it with superb conversational skills, engaging stories, and ingenious, timely negs/teases.
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I’m sure “how you look” does include one’s overall self-presentation, not just physique and face.
Funny, but I can often pick an officer ranking CPT or above out of a crowd without seeing his rank.
Something about the posture, walk, immaculate haircut and uniform.
Though everyone wears the same thing, there are different ways of wearing it.
“How you look.”
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I think it was a takeoff on the old trope: It’s 80% what you look like, 10% how you sound, and 10% what you actually say–_Eddie Izzard has a bit on this when talking about JFK in Berlin(ironically, Izzard gets the facts wrong, but then again, most people do)…
Come to think of it, if either of these percentages is true, it would do a LOT to explain how the current moron/socialist-in-chief got a free pass by the networks and stole the oval office….
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Anon6, disagree with you. I think the implication is how confident you appear. Witness Roissy’s post on body langauge/standing like Michealangelo’s David.
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I’ve used this tactic in my relationships in the past in order to keep from having to say “I love you” all the time.
When they call you out on why you don’t tell them you love them enough, say that you don’t like saying it too much because it cheapens the phrase.
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Asking her if she wanted the green or red bell peppers while browsing the veggies in Whole Foods is not one of those times.
So that’s not just out here, eh? It’s doubly disgusting because you have to suffer the sight of a 30-something manboy who still doesn’t know how to buy food without tugging on the blouse of his mommy for help.
lol at the term “lumpenbeta” from the previous post.
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Now this is so much better than “race realism,” and global politics (fun and all as those topics are).
Regarding the “I love you,” I occasionally use something along the lines “I am glad/I know” (delivered with deep eye contact) as a spot between cocky (“who asked”) and sincere (“I love you too”).
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They all have their breaking point. Once she does, you have a love slave for life.
You forgot to add: and then you can beat the crap out of them when they step out of line because they get all wet when you do.
Oh right, you said that somewhere else.
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roissy
Then she has issues, and is probably a drama queen. It should not make any difference who says it first, as long as the feeling is mutual.
What is this supposed to mean? Should men treat their girlfriends like animals?
Why would you even be in a relationship with a woman like that?
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Relationship Game: I Love You Too « Roissy in DC…
Nonetheless, it is true that, while brief moments of temporary beta regression with a woman who loves you won’t doom your relationship, you have to be careful to avoid slipping into betadom on the regular or there *will* come a time ……
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z:
If funny that men get portrayed as the players and liars so often, but relatively few men will lie to a woman he is fucking and say that he is in love with her pre-emptively.
this is spot on. i’ve written a post about this. men have a hard time saying “i love you” if they don’t mean it. facial twitches and glancing eyes will give him away. women seem to be more sociopathic in this regard; they have an inordinately supranatural ability to lie to themselves and to their men when their terms of endearment aren’t heartfelt. probably because women are naturally skilled at turning everything into a shit test, including professions of love.
anon6:
So: even a man with great “looks” and “tone” can fuck up royally based on what he says, and, on the flip side, even a man with mediocre “looks” and “tone” can make up for it with superb conversational skills, engaging stories, and ingenious, timely negs/teases.
body language is crucially important on the approach. i’d even go so far as to say that without the right BL, anything you say, no matter how intriguing, will fall on dry pussy. so get the BL down first, then work on the words coming out of your mouth.
as for your larger point, yes, to a degree it’s true — the more alpha you are, the more women will forgive. so if we assume for this discussion that looks are 60% of eliciting a positive response from women, then a guy with good looks, solid BL and proven social dominance will open sets easier than a guy with none of those things. naturally, opening sets != closing the deal. we’ve all heard stories from women who’ve said how disappointed they were when the hot guy came over and ruined his chances by saying something stupid or lame.
so, yeah, guys who are superficially beta and who have trouble opening sets because of it will get the most bang for their buck by honing their conversational skills and game tactics.
“give me ten minutes to talk away my ugly face and i can bed the queen of france.”
– voltaire
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Heh, I would even go as far as to extend the ‘never say it first’ rule to every single occasion those words are said. She says it first. This should protect you from using it in apology or when it’s inappropriate and you’re reminding her it’s inappropriate.
Whoo for 3.2.
Careful with 3.3, make sure you can pull it off if not native: unintentional hilarity may not be what you’re aiming for. Also, if hotness is unintentionally your only selection criteria you may get an epiphany when she actually breaks the moment and goes ‘wut? Can you speak Eeeenglish please? I’m not stupid! Liek, what language is that: borat lol?’ and that’s when you run for it because you don’t want an LTR with an IQ of zero who for some reason is also talking in lolspeak.
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@lurker–I’ve read plenty on body language, from Roissy and others, and have completely changed my natural way of carrying myself so as to most perfectly emulate the presence of an alpha. I can attest that that shit is fucking powerful, and I don’t deny that it is one of the most important aspects of pickup. (Quick story: I met up with an old female acquaintance recently who I hadn’t seen in months at a small apartment get together. I opened the door into the apt, displaying my new body language and walked over to say hi. My friend greeted with me with wild sex eyes and, literally, exclaimed “wow, you look so different, like a real man!” Since she was a friend, she was able to spell it out straightforwardly, but the general increase in unprovoked female attention I’ve been getting since making the changes is enough for me to confirm the efficacy of alpha presentation.)
But anyway, I think still think its fairly absurd to say that the content of what say contributes 10% or less to a successful pickup. Great body language, voice tone, and fashion might give you an AUDITION with just about any woman, but unless you are really in the top 1% of guys in terms of looks and MASTERFUL presentation, you are still going to have to jump through a few hoops to gain access to her precious guarded egg. And it’s my belief, based on experience, that you can’t say just anything in order to get through those hoops. You still need to demonstrate in some shape or form, that you are an individual of high value.
Maybe, lurker, you are one of the lucky few who can pull off wordless pickups. If you can, that’s excellent, but don’t think that is standard for the rest of us ugly ducklings.
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ian in hamburg:
You forgot to add: and then you can beat the crap out of them when they step out of line because they get all wet when you do.
hey man, whatever lifts your dick.
ps don’t you have a sheisse video to attend to?
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“Don’t be one of those laughable nancyboy beta schmucks who feels the urge to perfunctorily say “Luvya” every fucking time you get off the phone with your girl. ”
Glad you brought this up.
Another thing that is lame is when beta guys talk in “that gay voice” (for lack of a better term) with their girlfriends.
News Just in:
DO NOT change your voice to something gay when you talk with girls.
– MPM
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Moving into the 5th year of cuddly talk. Must say I am impressed with my endurance. Where there is a will there is a way. Saying I love you a gazilion times. Telling her shes the best thing that ever happened to me. Letting her know when I am proud of her accomplishements. Letting her know I am in it for life. Keeping us both on track for the plan. Saying no to things that are just wants not needs. We shall see if it works in everyday life one day. That will be my job for a while anyway is just work the relationship. Should get interesting strategically working it 12 hours a day 7 days a week for a year attempting to learn all about breasts like is laying on them all day good for posture. Counting them. With the end goal being to impregnate the woman. Things like that. Once mission accomplished will be time to run more econimic game to see how woman can be used to further a mans economic goals through love and teamwork and in turn further their shared goals of creating something for the children and themselves and see how that goes.
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in a foreign language? you can’t be serious
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Anon6
What is this alpha presentation you speak of?
What books/articles have you read to improve body language?
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On saying “I love you”
I agree with not using these words first. I was scared the first time my husband stated this to me because I did not (yet) feel in love with him. Always error on the side of withholding.
On saying “Thank you”
Now here is when I get addled. In the context of long-term marriage, I desire/crave explicit “Thank yous” and remember and catalog them. How often does he thank me?
-for my income…………….once yearly at tax-prep time
-for parenting……………….sporadically
-for laundry………………….once , only once ever
-for sex……………………….all the time, it’s meaningless unless there was something unique about it
-for meals……………………rarely, usually limited to entertaining others
Same goes for “wife game” . In the context of a long-term marriage, I never say those trite hackneyed “love you”words. My actions should evidence love. I’ve used “thank you” both genuinely and to, somewhat, manipulate his behavior.
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To Clarify one thing
If a guy ditches me, in order to make me more intrested, will not make me more interested.
I dont know what kind of women are going into this braintwisting challenge.
Game would be, to show off how brilliant you are!
Its about selling yourself, good clean clothes, nice haircut, good body, and when you open your mouth, dont make shit coming out from there. Dont be a lot of things, shy, scared, to cool, its not that hard to learn in the end, but some people dont get it.
I would find a guy attractive if it was a mix bw what Roissy explains as a alfa guy and a beta guy. The alfa guy Roissy creates is to hardheaded and to stone like, and these guys dont really try it with me either, they just sence that game will not work on me.
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even a man with great “looks” and “tone” can fuck up royally based on what he says
Yes, content matters. This is what makes me mad with “natural game” gurus who tell you to just say whatever pops into your head. A recipe for disaster. Having something at least mildly interesting or entertaining to say is necessary, if not sufficient.
Mehow has a bunch to say on this here and here.
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if a woman doesn’t ask you within 1-2 months if you’re seeing anyone else (or asks to be exclusive) then she isn’t that into you.
if a woman doesn’t tell you she loves you within 3-4 months of dating/banging, then she probably doesn’t love you. she might tell you later, but she won’t mean it.
this girl i used to date, she dated a guy for TWO YEARS before telling him she loved him. she didn’t. i dumped her ass after hearing that one.
if a woman doesn’t start bringing up marriage after 1-2 years, then she isn’t in love with you either. my friend’s sister was dating some guy for six years, then they got engaged. i asked her if she was in love with him. she said yes, but it was pretty obvious to me that she was lying. they broke up before the marriage.
anecdotal evidence for sure, but all hypotheses start out that way. anyone got stats?
el chief
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roissy: “The question is odd to me, because a woman who is truly in love with you will not suddenly run away if you deviate from the alpha script for half a second. Once you’ve captured a woman’s heart, you’ve got a healthy margin for error.”
This is making me think of your post where discussion occured about women allowing themselves to become “fat”. Male equivalent! What makes you think you’re safe? Think again, pal. If anything: alpha game has to be escalated with the addition of unmanageable and competitive children, her increasing independence with age and increasing boredom or frustrations with the relationship.
I sure have no direct experience with this (I’ve only observed the results as a third party in a patriarchal culture, usually not seeing how the relationships started), but I’m going to throw that out there anyway.
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I think when people say “it doesn’t matter what you say, but how say it,” it means you don’t have to come up with the most butter smooth perfectly constructed sentence all the time.
It means more important than word choice, its delivery: positive, confident, and with a smile.
It doesn’t mean you can say something obnoxious or socially retarded.
– MPM
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It should be: “more important than what you say, is how say it,”
– MPM
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“It doesn’t mean you can say something obnoxious or socially
retarded.”
Guess Tommy Lee and Flavor Flav should beat a path to your door for wisdom about that lack of pussy that vexes them.
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There is definitely a difference between an LTR with kids, and your typical 20/30something LTR without. Kids change a lot of things. And the kids themselves change!
I think people get TOO comfortable when the kids are very young, as the newness of the whole experience lulls them into a false sense of security, and because the very young babies are such an unimaginable energy-suck.
The ugly doesn’t really hit till the kids start to grow up a little: suddenly the parents wake up to the unutterable boredom that is their shared life, and the question becomes, “well, what now?”
Usually wifey wakes up first, but not always; I’ve seen the wife get blindsided, though she’s so often the last to see it coming.
But clubgoing playboys don’t know nuthin ’bout birthin no babies, so you can hardly hold it against them for not talking much about it.
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Ah, G, once again sepaking melifluously the truths distilled here.
word.
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“”Bhetti,
This is making me think of your post where discussion occured about women allowing themselves to become “fat”. Male equivalent! What makes you think you’re safe? Think again, pal. If anything: alpha game has to be escalated with the addition of unmanageable and competitive children, her increasing independence with age and increasing boredom or frustrations with the relationship. “”
This is where the man needs to have other woman game. While being completely honest with the first 🙂 Keeps first on toes. Lets her know he really does love her as he could get many other woman but chooses her as life mate.
“”Ode To Married Woman
for sex……………………….all the time, it’s meaningless unless there was something unique about it””
The other woman in honesty lets the first know sure other woman can give sex. But only the woman he chooses as his long term love can give him salvation,trust,what he wants to endure in his life and pure love. Having another woman proves in no other way that he indeed loves the first and she knows she does provide something for him that no other woman can. She knows she is a special snowflake that is irreplacable and beyond just materialistic value but also value as an individual human female being that he loves.
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el chief, good points. it matches my observations.
gotcha! bhetti:
This is making me think of your post where discussion occured about women allowing themselves to become “fat”. Male equivalent! What makes you think you’re safe?
a man having a few moments of beta regression is not equivalent to a woman getting fat; it’s equivalent to an already thin woman putting on a few pounds. she still looks good enough to fuck, but she’d better start watching her weight lest it get out of control.
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“Guess Tommy Lee and Flavor Flav should beat a path to your door for wisdom about that lack of pussy that vexes them.”
Who knows?, I don’t care about celebrities and their personal lives.
Celebrities are chimps.
Although Flav was a great hype man.
– MPM
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It better only be a ‘few pounds’! Or I’ll be kicking you out of your own house, while overspending on your spoilt children, in no time 😉
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Or saying that men and woman can have unconditional love. Whatever happens they can still make the choice to work through it and stay with the other. The way poeple talk about exes the place in the heart for them never seems to go away why ever end it in the first place with someone you are really ready to dedicate you life to.
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The question is: what do you say if this girl http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/tech/Petite_Fashion_Bot_to_Walk_Ru say “I love you”?
Here is a video: http://svt.se/ it’s a swedish site, just scroll down to “Robotar tar över äldrevården?”
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Hell, why bother with kicking you out? I’d just make you sleep on the couch “for the sake of the children” while the boyfriend gets the bed!
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Z-
Well that depends of the woman, at least somewhat …
BUT, what I would say is this. In a well established relationship, that’s past the initially falling in love stage and hottest passion stage, what a woman means when she casually say I love you (and most women say that a lot in established relationships is) she is really asking you a question.
So in such circumstances guys, which is most ones in relationships, simply automatically translate her “I love you” into what she’s really saying which is: “I can still rely on you and the security of this relationship, right?” Implicit is that she wants to be able to. Implict as well, as we all very much know, is that she wants you to reassure her of your love for her. That, rather than a declaration of her own feelings, is entirely why she says it.
If you keep that in mind, it’s a lot easier to understand why a positive, but not full throated expanse is the most you should usually give, such as “me too”. It also makes it easier to understand why I teasing one such as “I know you do babe, I know” is also so good. You want her to chase, some. You want her to be just a little insecure, sometimes, but not very insecure, usually. It’s also a ju jitsue to take her literally, as though she wasn’t really asking you a question.
Now obviously if she’s looking up at you with adoring, emotion filled eyes when she says “I love you”, that’s something different. There’s still an element of question asking for sure, but teasing isn’t usually the way to go then. At any rate you need to take that seriously, and communicate that you do. Caressing or deep kissing or some such might be, depending on what preceded the declaration.
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My wife is always fishing for compliments. Every single day, sometimes several times a day, she says “say something nice to me” or “tell me something pretty,” or something along those lines. 19 times out of 20, I say “very good,” “uh-huh,” “yup,” or I say nothing at all. She protests mildly, but soon leaves me alone. Every 2-3 weeks, when I see that she really needs a payoff and I need to say something nice, I make it ridiculous, like “my love for you is like the wind beneath the wings of 1000 eagles.” She squeals with delight, kisses me, and tells me I’m a poet.
Other things that work, in their own way, include “you are an angel……a dirty fallen angel.” Or “you are a precious flower…..a black flower that thrives without sunlight.” These aren’t cute, but they are spontaneous and edgy, and they seem to tide her over in a strange way. It shows that I’m paying attention, but I’m not giving in.
I only initiate sweet talk if I really fucked something up and need to apologize, maybe once or twice a year. Sappy talk is her realm, and even though she says she wants to hear sweet nothings, I know she doesn’t. The infrequent reward is richer than the frequent one.
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“Sincere game is long haul game.”
aww. One thing I believe in is Don’t underestimate the power of sincerity. Find the kernel of genuineness and build on that and the delivery will naturally have a better effect.
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Speaking from the married perspective, your advice is somewhat shallow when it comes to serious relationships. I’ll concede that your advice is the shit when it comes to dating, but beyond that, it leaves something to be desired.
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Roissy —
This is an especially good post. You’ve covered this ground before several times, but each time slightly differently. There’s nothing remotely canned about your approach.
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Kano.
Fler Svenskar på Roissy sajten, haha trevligt.
Interesting Video.
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Well, no matter how well you do, you can only get so much practice at long term relationships seeing as how they’re… long term so it would make sense if it was mysterious. I particularly like Hawaii Dave’s comments on LTRs though.
Regardless, nobody needs to tell me that rockyo and I will last forever.
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Do you have to bring this dumb shit into every goddamn thread?
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Your cruel alpha techniques work so well, my beloved.
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el chief:
“if a woman doesn’t ask you within 1-2 months if you’re seeing anyone else (or asks to be exclusive) then she isn’t that into you.
if a woman doesn’t tell you she loves you within 3-4 months of dating/banging, then she probably doesn’t love you. she might tell you later, but she won’t mean it.”
Not necessarily true. If you are seeing other women and she senses this, and you maintain some aloofness, she will be (justly) afraid to ask for exclusivity (or even for regular saturday nights out), lest she scare you off. Her strategy will continue to be exclusive to you, but not apply pressure in the hopes that your commitment will eventually come about. Similarly for the I love you moment; at the 3-4 month stage of the relationship, she will be (justly) afraid that you will reject the sentiment, if you have maintained aloofness. However, you should be able to sense fairly easily that she wants exclusivity and wants to make the i love you, but fears your reaction. If you don’t sense this, it is as you say (I imagine).
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“If funny that men get portrayed as the players and liars so often, but relatively few men will lie to a woman he is fucking and say that he is in love with her pre-emptively.”
I do.
Usually after a marathon fuck session after a 2nd or 3rd fuck. They looked stunned. It fucks with their head. On one hand they rationalize that I can’t be serious and it’s just post-sex nonsense. On the other hand they think, “Maybe he’s for real???”
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Bhetti is going to have TJF solemnly uttering the shadahah within the month.
isn’t romance sweet?
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Yea but she said she would convert for him. Which is what arab muslims fear. She may be killed.
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Anon I guess “I love you needs to be defined” after the third or fourth marathon session she probably is in love with you. The question would be what does that mean. I love you today but tomorrow you know I might change my mind. So in a sense you may not be lieing to them you proably do love them just your meaning is in the moment.
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Till death do us part!
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if I love you doesn’t mean when she loses here arms and legs in some freak car accident you stop loving her then wtf was it good for. Other than an in the moment sign of affection.
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Always thought Romeo and Juliet was called a great love story because of it’s great cop-out; it didn’t have to make people believe they lived happily ever after together.
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its*
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Need a new word to denote one human female or male human beings actual “blank” for a specific human female or male being that actually means something. Not a saying that you can interchange one partner with the opposite partner and the same person will still be saying “I love you” to a different person the next day, week, month, year, lifetime.
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Neither did braveheart. Great love story.
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Dude, we used to have “husband” and “wife.”
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Sincere game……..blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah….
Sincere game? Do you not hear yourself?
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Yea obviously need something else its not cutting it. Need something like the promise on natural born killers. It got them through the hard times.
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I have this problem. Women fall in love with me FAST. I’m not kidding you. Even older women say they haven’t ever met anyone like me.
My game isn’t that tight; I got a D- on Roissy’s last quiz. I rely mostly on having a lead role in a large social circle. But, once we’ve fucked, sometimes even before, the love thing starts. Little comments creep in (on her part, not mine) like, “I can’t believe we’re falling in love this fast.” On the first or second date.
My question is, why? Some women say it’s because I’m non-threatening. My beta/female friends say I must be picking up crazy chicks, or low self esteem chicks, but I know this not to be true. Some of these girls have way more social status than I do (although I never let them know I think so), and will regale me with stories about how they shut down other guys. My alpha friends say not to worry about it, it happens all the time.
Thoughts?
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What was the promise on “natural born killers?”
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Till they died,died,died and beyond. Not sure exact qoute. I also liked the ramifications of a blood promise. The symbolism of putting blood on the pact making it so.
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sincere game
asshole game
money game
artist game
weak game
solid game
tight game
other-woman game
no game
married game
herpes game?
mom game?
Maybe it is just that all interactions with the Cootie Crew are classified as “game.” From small-talk with the cashier to negging hot babes to making a phone call to your Mom.
“Mom, do you know why you suck?”
“??!”
“Because you keep thinking about letting me borrow 500 bucks, but you won’t tell me about it.”
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Ben
I have this problem. Women fall in love with me FAST. I’m not kidding you. Even older women say they haven’t ever met anyone like me.
My game isn’t that tight; I got a D- on Roissy’s last quiz. I rely mostly on having a lead role in a large social circle. But, once we’ve fucked, sometimes even before, the love thing starts. Little comments creep in (on her part, not mine) like, “I can’t believe we’re falling in love this fast.” On the first or second date.
You ask why, Ben? Mother of Jesus! It’s your dick, honey with a capital D-. It’s biology, Ben. It’s not love, Ben. Get a grip, Ben. Even the women you fuck don’t seem to realize this being modern women and all. Huh? It’s called NATURE. Look it up.
Other hormonal influences in sexual function include oxytocin, cortisol, pheromones, and prolactin. There is some evidence showing that oxytocin (produced by dopamine) levels increase during sexual arousal and orgasm in both men and women. (3) Also the combination of oxytocin and female hormones like estrogen in women, encourage an emotional attachment with a partner. In men, the bonding effect is muted, due to the male’s higher testosterone levels. As a result, men form emotional ties slower, and are more likely to regard initial sexual contact as just sex
You guys here need to get a serious grip on your egos, but of course the women need an even more serious grip cuz they are LOSING it over losers like Roissy. Women DO FALL in love very quickly but it’s biological attachment to perpetuate the species. Any ape can do it but the difference is they don’t go around thinking it’s because they are the shit.
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Wedding would indeed be manlier if there was more bleeding involved. Men do take bleeding more seriously than jewelry.
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LOL——I think everybody here will enjoy reading this from ScienceDaily:
Science News Share Blog Cite Print Email BookmarkFemale Birds ‘Jam’ Their Mates’ Flirtatious Songs
ScienceDaily (Mar. 16, 2009) — When a single female is nearby, female antbirds will sing over the songs of their male partners in an apparent attempt to keep their messages from getting through, according to a new report published online on March 12th in Current Biology. Males respond to that interruption by singing a different tune.
——————————————————————————–
See also:
Plants & Animals
Evolutionary Biology
Mating and Breeding
Nature
Earth & Climate
Reference
Hinny
Whale song
Pheromone
Somatic cell
The findings offer the first evidence that such “signal jamming” and “jamming avoidance” occur between mates, according to the researchers.
“In human terms, signal jamming is most commonly associated with attempts to scramble information in radio, radar, or cell phone signals,” said Joseph Tobias of the University of Oxford. “The females in our study try to do a similar thing with the songs of their partner, but the overall situation is more analogous to a wife continually interrupting her husband to stop him from flirting with a single woman.”
Social animals produce a wide range of communal displays, many of them remarkable feats of complex coordination, the researchers said. One example is the duets sung by pairs of Peruvian warbling antbirds. So far, scientists have disagreed about how temporal coordination between displaying individuals evolved, some seeing it as a cooperative signal of coalition quality, others as a selfish means to avoid signal overlap.
According to the research team, the new study provides the first evidence that the avoidance of signal overlap is sufficient to explain the coordination and complexity of communal signals.
In a series of playback experiments, the team found that resident pairs of antbirds sing coordinated duets when responding to rival pairs. But under other circumstances, cooperation breaks down, leading to more complex songs. Specifically, they report that females respond to unpaired sexual rivals by jamming the signals of their own mates, who in turn adjust their signals to avoid the interference.
Tobias said the females’ attempts to jam their partners’ songs are presumably intended to make the males less attractive, or to make it clear that they are “taken.” He added that the results in antbirds may have broad implications for understanding how communal signals have developed over evolutionary time in many animals, and perhaps even in humans.
First, Tobias said, the findings reveal that group signals such as duets and choruses represent a subtle blend of cooperation and conflict. The balance between those two forces depends on the context. Their study also suggests that if there is some conflict in the system, then multiple singers can combine to produce rhythmic, precisely coordinated, and increasingly complex songs simply by avoiding overlap.
“Most evidence points to vocalizations in early humans having a function in both mate attraction and resource defense, so it seems plausible that ‘signal jamming’ and especially ‘jamming avoidance’ played a role in our evolutionary history. If so, our results may help to explain the first steps towards complex, coordinated group signals in humans, which themselves are the likely forerunners to modern music.”
The researchers Joseph A. Tobias, and Nathalie Seddon, are of University of Oxford, Oxford, UK.
Me again………………………..ya see guys, even if we had feathers those damned women are still cold and calculating. I wonder who gets the nest in the event of a divorce? I loved the part about “coordinated duets when responding to rival pairs”
My conclusion: Walking and swimming creatures aren’t the only ones concerned with status within their groups. The birds literally are “gaming” one another also.
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I think it would help men and woman be more able to build something together greater than a house in the burbs. Average cost of house 225k in us. You can by the machinery to produce 800 pizzas a day that you can freeze for under 100k. For under 225k you could buy equipment to make millions of t shirts a year. The us is so rich that the people living there can personnaly afford to set up the equipment to auto manufacture every widget needed. then of course the hydroponic acre 300k that can produce 150 tons of tomatoes. Every family could have its own widget making machine. In use subways under 150k. Equipment to be able to cut steel to make whatever you want is under 30k. You can make your own personal manufacturing facility off computer autocad renditions for under 225k. Why is it that a house is worth 225k but then when it is something that would benefit the family in a massive way for lets say 100k it is expensive. I think because no one really care about the other if they can both just be thrown away on a whim. If the us would make loans the same way as houses to anyone who wants to open manufacturing of some kind. Also move into automation. Then crisis over lack of jobs over.
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hahaha,
Guys,
all the poeple reading this site should meet up, get some free booze and try out all we learned from Roissy about game on each other, maaan, what a weirdo collection we would be.
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omw
Hey Mom, I like that dress. It looks just like the one I saw on an HB9 the other night.
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Well OMV if you and your husband don’t have an out. I guess your wedding vows would work. Still think you should help him save some loot though 🙂
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Betas would love to hear a woman (7 or up) say she loves us. But instead she will shack up with a succession of Alpha punks. Hence, porn. Alpha chicks making money off Beta slugs.
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Extra hate from Sara today. What happened to spiritual love? An extra-planar person in touch with herself as a whole shouldn’t have a need to come on here and angrily berate strangers.
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Truly a cock(eral?) block.
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Pupu is writing with a semi-dark screen in front of her. Her laptop’s inverter died the moment a discussion of “I love you” appeared on the screen.
In her rational and trouble-shooting mood, Pupu sees “I love you” as a verbal signature to a relationship agreement. A contract is initiated at the first utterance of the phrase. The initiator of the contract is in a more vulnerable position because he/she is committed to be bound by the terms of the contract – whatever they are – while the other person is still a free agent. It is a sale-on-consignment deal until the other person also signs in with an “I love you too.”
One says “I love you” first for many reasons: 1) it leaks out in a moment of hormonal rush; 2) it is used strategically to lure the other person into committing; 3) it is uttered in all soberness, sincerity and conviction, in the an extreme case, even without an expectation of return but with a full trust that the other person is love-worthy enough not to take advantage of the vulnerability the phrase exposes one to.
When people say “I love you” in more established relationships, the phrase is used as a reminder or a confirmation of the relationship contract. When it is used too often, the power of the signature is weakened, and the contract is somehow less protected.
In the end, the simplest way to get the most out of saying “I love you” is to only say it in a meaningful moment that is convincing to oneself, or to one’s partner, and ideally to both. The nature of the moment that prompts the utterance of the phrase can be either positive, in which case “I love you” helps bind the couple tighter into the contract; or negative, in which case it serves as a confirmation that the contract is unaffected by the recent event. There is really no reason for causing any wear-and-tear to this powerful phrase in any other occasions.
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More science anyone?
WOMEN CAN SMELL FEAR—-SCIENTISTS
“Humans Respond to Scent of FearBy LiveScience Staff
posted: 12 March 2009 10:15 am ET
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Moviegoers might want to scoff a bit less when characters talk about the scent of fear. Women exposed to fear chemicals in male sweat tended to see ambiguous faces as being more fearful, according to a new study.
Such research shows for the first time how even the smell of fear can affect how people interpret what they see right in front of them. That fits with previous studies showing that visual and facial cues can affect human emotion and interpretation – but mainly when the situation seems uncertain.
“Our findings provide direct behavioral evidence that human sweat contains emotional meanings,” said Denise Chen, a psychologist at Rice University in Houston.
Male participants watched neutral clips, slapstick comedies and horror flicks, while a gauze pad sat in their armpits to collect sweat. Later, female participants had the gauze pads held under their noses as they watched images of faces that changed from somewhat happy to neutral to somewhat fearful.
Researchers chose males as sweat donors because of their larger apocrine sweat glands. The male volunteers used only scent-free shampoo, conditioner and soap provided by the lab several days beforehand, and kept a diet journal to avoid odorous foods such as garlic, onion and asparagus.
The study also used female respondents because of their better sense of smell and higher sensitivity to emotional cues. A first experiment involved 48 females who sniffed gauze that contained “fear sweat” from the horror film sessions, gauze that contained sweat from the slapstick comedy viewings, and control gauze that contained no sweat. A second experiment with 16 females focused on the “fear sweat” gauze and control gauze.
Women volunteers ended up more likely to interpret ambiguous faces as fearful when they were smelling the “fear sweat,” but only in the case of ambiguous faces. They still interpreted somewhat happy or somewhat scared faces according to what they saw.
Humans rely primarily on sight and hearing, so it’s no surprise that smell only comes into play in situations where the other senses are less certain. Animals often rely on their more sophisticated sense of smell as a common form of communication, and even humans may fall back on it during certain social situations.
“The sense of smell guides our social perception when the more-dominant senses are weak,” Chen said.
Fear isn’t all that may tweak human noses. Chen previously looked at a very different situation involving guys, gals and “sexual sweat.”
My observation: When out at a bar gaming the gals, you might ought to tell yourself you are confident enough mentally until you really believe it. She can smell it if you are not.
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Sorry but I get really annoyed sometimes to hear men brag about how quickly women fall in “love” with them. I have an acquaintance who is just this type of asshole. He was telling me how he was fucking this woman so good she would have gotten on all fours and barked like a dog if he asked her to. True story and I believe it. A-dick-tion is a horrible thing when the dick is attached to just this type of asshole. Worse still the wretched woman who is no better than a crack a-dick-t. Been there and it’s ugly, pathetic, and extremely painful to break the addiction. A heroin addict has it better. You think I’m exaggerating? Not even a little bit.
Kinda reminds me of this:.
I predict Roissy will be reincarnated as a 10.
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Like I said before just get back with your ex it is killing you. You will more than likely be happier than keeping on going at your current pace.
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Wow, I can’t help but think this has something to do with my question yesterday…
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dick=woman crack
Needs a post of its own guys can now revel in new power.
So why do woman end up hating the man with that power. Because at some point he doesn’t give it to you. Which leads to my usual point. Woman are actually the ones who craves more sex throughout the relationship while the guy is the one who actually craves it less with that woman. Why I don’t quite get the guys who say she stopped giving it up during the marriage. Unless it is code that they stopped giving it up during the marriage.
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Hey OMW, you forgot the best one…
…WWE Game!
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omfg wwe game owns you. I already signed up for class keep the woman in love forever.
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“……………boy that sure is the truth. When a woman falls in love with a man, as long as he doesn’t go wussified on her, he can pretty much put on thirty pounds, smoke, drink, go to ball games EVERY weekend with the boys, be marginally employed, let his yard go to hell, flirt with other women right in front of her, you name it. She will make up every excuse in the world for all of it. Its amazing how men’s and women’s minds work in such different ways.”
z –
I have been in two relationships in my life. Both of these women “fell in love” with me. They both still call me all the time, to this day. No matter what is going on in their life at the time, they both would be willing to drop anything/everything to leave the state they currently live in and move to where I am. They proclaim that “they will figure out the details” and that “it’s minor compared to being together.”
I honestly don’t think I could do anything to fuck this up, except expressing some fake undying, profound love for them both, probably resulting in them wanting to pack up their shit and move further away from me. One of them maintains that we are “soul mates” and the other has proposed to me! It is truly amazing what both of these women have done AFTER the relationships have been over, let alone how they acted during the relationships (possessive, but VERY scared to lose me, walking on eggshells, letting me do whatever I wanted out of fear of not being able to spend time, etc.) One of these girls is a solid 7, the other is an 8.
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Now for woman like Sara
“Dick game”
the holy grail of game.
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Sara I, while the biology lesson is extremely topical and appreciated, you’re reading too much into this. I’m not your asshole acquaintance.
The rest of these guys will call me a beta bitchboy for this, but in all sincerity, I would like to prevent this phenomenon. I don’t enjoy hurting women or leading them to believe in a false love.
My female friends have slept with 10-20 guys a piece. I have to assume my partners have as well. My friends claim not to fall in love that quickly. Unlike Roissy, I don’t believe my penis has magical powers that other men’s don’t.
So as long as you’re being honest, besides the science, what is it like emotionally when having sex with a new man? One who is good, and one who isn’t? What’s the addiction like from your end?
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WWE Game
When you are sharing a tender moment with your girl, ask her who she loves. She should begin responding, “Mmm, I love y-” Cut her off and yell, “IT DOESN’T MATTER WHO YOU LOVE!!!” Then wrap your right arm under her left arm and deliver the Rock Bottom. Finally, strip off your elbow pad and wave your arms, cuz it’s People’s Elbow time! Do this during approximately two out of every three tender moments for maximum effect; a lower frequency could get you relegated to the midcard.
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Off Topic but I just found Mistery’s first post ever on the usenet.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/tree/browse_frm/month/1998-09/cd73f426d9b1d82c?rnum=41&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.seduction.fast%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fmonth%2F1998-09%3F#doc_7d5e3b1263e7ff8e
gotta love these archives.
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Ben —
Pickup game, especially night club pickup where hot women have skads of men coming up to bat for them, is quite a specialized art. Day game is WAY easier — at least it is if you’re good at reading girls, are an interesting conversationalist on lots of topics, stay light, move around quickly, and tease. I.e. at night spots where people go to pickup and be picked up hot girls have major shields up to protect themselves from wasting time with relative losers. Those shields are far lower during the day with lots of girls, and so you move right away to either being able to build rapport and demonstrate value or not. Day game in situations where there are lots of girls who are not seriously attached is often easy as hell. At least has been for me.
Anyway, the most obvious answer to your question would be that you’re good, maybe really good in bed. A combination of being really good at oral, have a good size or very good sized cock, and being dominating but in either a seductive sort of way or just totally overwhelming sort of way, does wonders in really hooking a girl. Wonders. (You should also change up, but basically no one is totally overwhelming all the time, it’s too exhausting, and is also completely unnecessary. That she knows you can be and are from time to time is plenty.)
Here I’m speaking largely to others reading this. The really good at oral thing though can be confusing. There’s a male submissive or sorta submissive way of doing that, and a dominant way of doing it. The rudiments may be the same, but she’s gonna sense how you’re approaching it. If you’re all worried and concerned about pleasing her, you know which side of the line you’re on. The WRONG ONE. If you just love driving her bonkers with your tongue, fingers and lips, A ok. You don’t want to please her, you want to make her crazy. Got it?
You can’t completely screw up the rest of the time at least with a lot of women you can’t, but you can screw up a whole lot for a damn long time. Better not to of course especially with the less crazy or less submissive kinds of chicks.
But you also said you were a leader of a large group. That has a lot of attractive power for women in and of itself, and also normally implies lots of things about how you deal with people. If you’re also confident and relaxed one on one with women — well you’re in alpha territory.
It sounds to me like you’re a natural lesser alpha, in other words. If you don’t have large or fairly large numbers of women under you belt that either means you didn’t want to, or it’s the pickup side of game that’s holding you back most likely. Though even if you suck at nightclub game with the talents it seems you likely have you ought to be able to get pretty good numbers if you wanted to by day game alone. But never AS high numbers, because, well day game is thin on the ground on any given day. Most women are seriously taken. (Though some of THEM can be cracked if you’re good enough.)
You’d probably profit greatly from studying game – and it might not take you too long. Anyone who’s a natural leader is likely to be able to lean basic game skills pretty quickly seems to me. Though since I’m somewhat like the you I’m surmising here, I’m surmising about that. I.e. I haven’t studied game except by reading this blog, and ok since reading a little bit more than that.
That is if what you’ve said about yourself is accurate and doesn’t lead crucial negative bits out.
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Ben / Brad —
Same person?
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Ben –
You can safely assume at least double that number is the truth. Especially since it’s you they’re talking to. With all your ethical concerns about being too hurtful a playboy, unintentionally.
As for that, there may be a paradox going on. It may be that part of the reason these women fell in love with you the way they did, i.e. in such a “prone to heartbreak” sort of way is because they knew or believed you AREN’T at all a player, but have a lot of player alpha attributes, once you’d broken their ice. I.e. they see you as somebody’s completely faithful alpha and they want it to be them again!!
If you let them know you were in it not just for the sex, no, but not necessarily to find that one foreverever girl and the two of you could have alot of fun finding out, well that could be different. Just as much heat and at the time love, but less endless yearning when it’s over. As well a good shot at fuck budding them later, like now, without ripping them apart. Yeah they may yearn, but that’s not the same thing.
I.e. stop acting like such a romance novel if you don’t want to break their hearts. Be honest rather than a bit self deludedly romantic yourself.
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Gaze into her eyes intently, and say “I love you too … (wait for it) … but I’m not in love with you.” OK, maybe that’s overdoing the cocky part.
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And… what about the whole concept of saying something like, “you love me.” (unprovoked) I use this a fair bit, even when it’s obvious or way too early (and she knows this). I think this can have a strong affect and displays confidence while having a touch of ambiguity and confidence.
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Guys are the ones that fall in love with me very fast, maybe im good at game but i doubt that, i dont play games, i am sincere, i never went into a relationship just to have one, im very picky and few live up to those standards i dictate, i am single, i rather be alone then in bad company. You tell how low a girl can go when in love, i have seen great guys do that as well.
one thing i realized, if i want to keep a guy, then i shouldn’t play on my sexuality.
I see so many girls playing the sexy one, and the guys ask my number instead.
Sometimes i laugh when i see a beautiful girl, and she is making a complete fool out of herself in the bar by her idiotic laughter and face expressions , she just thinks she is god’s gifts to men and no one takes her seriously. i think wow, she makes herself complete non competition
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dougjnn –
“Ben/Brad same person?”
Nothing could be further from the truth. Ben wrote that he was the leader of a social group and that women fall in love with him. This is definitely not me. I secretly wish that kind of stuff happened to me, even though I would never show it. Sadly, it takes me a lot of time to win over attraction from a woman whom I desire.
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Betas would love to hear a woman (7 or up) say she loves us.
Primarily because her saying that makes us feel loved and appreciated. Alphas have no need for that. Witness David’s quest for hugs.
Hence, porn.
Porn is a cheap and effective way of avoiding women and getting what you want specifically.
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The single most important thing for a lifetime omega is to establish a healthy, everyday rhythm. Having a purpose-driven existence is paramount to happiness as a solitary person.
Here is an example: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_5510710
Now, this is someone in a much worse situation than a merely lonely, solitary individual, and yet he managed to get through his day, everyday, and wring some measure of enjoyment out of the most meager social gruel.
Similar articles I have seen suggest that Ted “the Unibomber” Kaczynski. His intellectual pursuits apparently keep him quite busy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski
Now consider the plight of those who disintegrate mentally under the conditions at ADX:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/09/solitary.confinement/
What goes unmentioned in these scenarios? The lack of a healthy rhythm, of intellectual pursuit, of writing letters, of limited, systematic enjoyment of TV without becoming a zombie to it, of any mention of a daily routine.
Consider this article that caused quite a stir, that describing the middle-aged virgin seeking help from a “sex therapist”:
http://dir.salon.com/story/sex/feature/2003/10/08/virgin/index.html?pn=2
Allow me to draw your attention to the unhealthy pattern of this man’s life: excessive drinking, smoking, possible overeating and no mention of exercise. This from a man with freedom. He apparently chased the chimera of a “sex therapist”-to the tune of possibly $10,000 or more- but no further “progress” is mentioned. One can’t help but think he’d be better off with a more beneficial personal regimen, one that did not cost all that money for a glorified harlot.
Is it hard? Particularly after half a lifetime of purposeless
drifting? Yes. Many won’t be able to do it because they do not have the self-discipline to go on to achieve something tangible in real life and would rather spend hours pointing fingers at others. Face it: fate has just selected some people out of the attentions of MOTOS.
That’s why the Omega Option worked for me. I gave up on women at 20 and never looked back.
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Brad,
I read what you wrote about the women in your past who are still in love with you.
Ive seen similar behavior to this amongst a couple of my old friends. They have women who just “never got over them”. They have remarried, but I truly think if one of my pals called them, they’d leave their husbands for these guys—–even multiple years after the fact. Its amazing to me that some women latch onto to some men emotionally like this.
True story Brad:
One pal of mine at work we will call B (last initial). Good guy, great dad, lost his wife a few years ago. She came in contact with her high school sweetheart online. These people were in their thirties at the time. She foreswore custody of their two wonderful kids, child support, any financial help, everything to divorce her loving faithful, super-nice husband (this guy is a really good human being, and he’s pretty good looking) to get back with her high school sweetheart from the 80’s. This was around 2000. They married, my friend was devastated. He had no idea it was coming. The marriage lasted a little over one year, and they were divorced. This woman threw everything away (her KIDS!!!!) for the “high school sweetheart”, and was single again in about 400 days.
B has discovered that he is pretty attractive to women (hell, he IS attractive to women. Educated, clean cut, vaguely middle eastern features, great guy, well read, very smart, in pretty good shape), and has played around some and rebounded very well and scored some babes. I cannot believe it, but his ex is practically begging to get back with him……………………………….and his kids, both teenagers now kind of want him to “take mom back” too. He has had better looking women (several of them, one I think is very hot) in the interim, but he is actually considering doing it because of religious reasons and his kids. He had completely gotten over her (by using the most effective tactic of getting over women known to man: other women’s pussies). So in a way……………………..they both have exhibited this ridiculous behavior. I want him to be happy, but I’d be damned if I’d take her back. He is apparently thinking “of our grandkids someday” and all that jazz. He’s a better human being than I am.
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roissyisgod –
^the funniest thing about that video is watching how uncomfortable the two girls in the background (on the right) are, trying to shield it with laughs
David Alexander –
Is it beta to want a woman to say it, even if you don’t show it at all? If a woman loves you and tells you, a lot of women don’t mind showing their feelings (or like we have addressed her, lying about her feelings to manipulate). They aren’t worried about driving a man away by expressing undying love/affection for a him (some cases this is untrue, but for the most part if a woman really loves a guy and wants to hold on to him, then she is going to let him know verbally, sexually and the way she clings to him, in all situations – I know you all know what I’m talking about, I think when a women is infatuated with a man it’s one of the most transparent things on this earth).
Is it beta for me to want that infatuation from her, even if I still behave with alpha characteristics and traits on the outside? Let me explain WHY exactly I want her to feel this way, because I believe my reasons could be considered an alpha way of thinking. If a woman is infatuated with me:
a. I can get away with more
b. I can spend time with her when I want, get sex whenever I want without worrying about receiving any shit
c. Things are on my terms, always
d. Less likely for her to cheat/stray
e. I can have free time to pursue other women, i.e. my Saturday and Friday nights
f. I am not obligated to do long-term relationship type shit
Now, I realize if I’m truly doing it right and displaying alpha behavior, all of the above will be happening anyways. It just seals the deal when a woman’s infatuation with you is so deep that she can’t control her loins from exploding at the very thought of you.
The real thing is, most women would look at that list and say… scumbag! However, doing the things on that list would actually make me more attractive to the woman who is infatuated and other women on the market.. nobody said women made sense!
If I get enough of these infatuated beauties, then I’m well on my way to building my own harem!
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Genius from dougjnn on how to approach giving some oral lovin’.
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z –
That’s an interesting story. So, if she was so infatuated by him (the high school sweetheart), why did it not work out after about 400 days? Did he let her go? Or vice versa? Or did they get together and after the euphoric recall of the high school days were over, they realized that they hated each other or that the spark that used to drive her up the wall wasn’t there anymore? I think the phenomenon is that the woman had that feeling in her loins as a result of how she felt for him back in the day.
The two women that still call me insist that it’s not a euphoric recall thing (as I have called them out on it trying to get them to forget it and move on). One of them insists that I’m even more attractive now because I’m the “only one that can make her laugh” and that “I make situations light-hearted and fun” and blah blah.
I guess the beta in me likes the attention, even though I act like I’m annoyed by it and still am very ambiguous with both of them, keeps them not only coming back and thinking about me all the time, but fantasizing about possible future relationships and keeps it open for sex anytime they come and visit me (they make it a point to take the plain rides often)
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Brad–
When a whole group of phenomena in an area regularly don’t make sense, such as you know, that group of phenomena know as women and how they interact with men, that’s a sure sign of something.
Do you what it’s a sign of?
The organizing theory you’re employing to understand those phenomena is all messed up. It’s wrong. It’s seriously defective. You can count on it.
When the Hutu/Tutsi genocide was first taking place, it simply didn’t make sense to me, when I read about it in the mainstream papers such as the NY Times and the Washington Post. It was clear it wasn’t making sense to any of their readers, speaking broadly. Because they weren’t conveying sense about it. Through some combination of the reporters own wrong frames, and a lot of sugar coating and PC willful concealment, (probably much more the later), the mainstream press for a long time, at least three months and maybe more like six months befuddled everyone not intimately familiar with the area, or who didn’t do independent research. Well about two weeks in I did do some on the web because I smelled a rat. I rearched the history and read some more primary sources. Its soon became apparent to me that what was going on was a combo race class war, between the small in number but tall, thin, traditionally cattle rich and dominate Tutsis, who were being decimated, and the shorter and poorer agricultural Hutus, who were hacking them to death with machettes. Mystery solved.
Roissy makes sense of women very well indeed.
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@brad,
Correction: doing the things on that list would actually make me more attractive to the woman who has low standards for what she requires in a man. like begets like , skanks beget skanks, low-bar begets low-bar, classy begets classy, young begets young .
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Brad —
So in other words your whole question to the group about why even though you got a bad score on a bar pickup test, you’ve had (you said) a couple of hot women you broke up with desperate to get back with you, was not a serious question at all, but a pose to announce yourself as some sort of alpha (lesser) in a way that you thought people here would buy?
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ode–
Wha? I thought you were a woman?
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@dougjnn
I am. I was restating his statement…………as I see it more correctly
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“She will resent you if you do. Of course, she won’t tell you this. But I will.”
and for that roissy, we are forever grateful.
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“Ben/Brad same person?”
No, but I get the impression were in the same greater beta / lesser alpha / still slowly reprogramming years of romantic ideals.
“Pickup game, especially night club pickup where hot women have skads of men coming up to bat for them, is quite a specialized art.”
I’m new at it – was averaging 2-3 phone numbers a night. Now I’m focusing on getting one really, really high attraction phone number. Day 2s are hard for me unless there’s mega attraction the first night. I only go out alone once a week.
“Day game is WAY easier — at least it is if you’re good at reading girls, are an interesting conversationalist on lots of topics, stay light, move around quickly, and tease.”
Social circle game is even easier. They talk about you, so you establish rapport with people you’re not even gaming. There are no shields – everything is a warm approach. There’s no approach anxiety at all.
“Anyway, the most obvious answer to your question would be that you’re good, maybe really good in bed.”
Yeah, that was Sara I’s thing, maybe that’s just it. My only tip (and not just for in bed, but for everything after the kiss) is to make it clear that you really, really desire her. Not that you need her, but that she turns you on. This is 100% non-verbal. When you kiss her, kiss her like it’s the most important thing in the world. It helps if you actually desire her.
I also really enjoy watching a girl come, and will often come at the same time because of this, even when it’s not intercourse. But I doubt that’s something you can learn.
“But you also said you were a leader of a large group. That has a lot of attractive power for women in and of itself, and also normally implies lots of things about how you deal with people. If you’re also confident and relaxed one on one with women — well you’re in alpha territory.”
I just had a party Saturday, and yeah, being the host has advantages. Like when one girl needed to change in my bedroom and saw the two empty glasses of wine, and the hair ties on the desk (she asked if they were for my horse).
“It sounds to me like you’re a natural lesser alpha, in other words.”
Here’s the thing – I’m not quick. I’m taking improv classes (as suggested by the PUA community, particularly style) but I just don’t have a response 50% of the time. The whole horse thing – I could have said a million things, half of them really sexy, but instead I was just embarrassed (see romantic ideals).
“If you don’t have large or fairly large numbers of women under you belt that either means you didn’t want to, or it’s the pickup side of game that’s holding you back most likely.” and “That is if what you’ve said about yourself is accurate and doesn’t lead crucial negative bits out.”
I dated, almost married, one girl for 6 years, and I’m 24. I’ve slept with 4, had orgasms with 8 (oral/hand). I think having one long term girlfriend really improves your abilities in bed. “She Comes First” also helps oral techniques.
“Nothing could be further from the truth. Ben wrote that he was the leader of a social group and that women fall in love with him. This is definitely not me. I secretly wish that kind of stuff happened to me, even though I would never show it. Sadly, it takes me a lot of time to win over attraction from a woman whom I desire.”
Brad, this is going to sound weird, but I know a way where you can very quickly (two months?) become a leader of very open, friendly social group. The girls are mostly the bohemian (artsy, down to earth, world traveler) types, if you’re into that. This’ll work anywhere in the world and doesn’t require a fancy house or nightclubs or anything. Message me on reddit @ random57029350973250.
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PS
Thanks dougjnn.
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Those random posters that come on here every now and then and talk about “choosing” a life of beta-dom/omega-dom….is that shit for real? Unless you are really and truly a morbid, disgusting ogre, how you could sit here and read this blog, that has almost two years worth of posts bursting with precious, life-enhancing information that WILL improve your success rate with women, and yap to us about how you have some “purpose driven life” filled with old Carlin books, exotic chutneys, erector sets and what-have-you as if you’re taking some higher ground or something? It’s true that a lot of men out there are doomed to be omegas or betas for all of their lives. But I’d say the vast majority of these men don’t even learn ABOUT game, let alone take the plunge to actually read some of the literature. If you’ve taken the time to post a comment on this blog, can’t you take the time to read some of the posts and try some of the techniques in the field? I mean jesus, I guess I should be happy that I have less competition, but it just boggles my mind that some men would be aware of game, and just “refuse” to try it out. I guess I’m a man who likes things to be analyzed and explained to me–female desire being one such thing, why I’m in the game in the first place–so can someone explain to me VOLUNTARY omega-dom, DESPITE knowledge of Game?
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“You should be aware of the possibility that your woman will use I love you like a weapon of war. Sometimes, the more neurotic of the female species will incessantly proclaim their love for you in an attempt to smoke out any beta wishy-washiness or weakness on your part. If you fall into her manufactured drama, pity-poor-me, low self-esteem trap with an endless stream of I love you too’s you will have sealed your fate.”
Why would you even be in a relationship with a woman like that?
1-to-1 sex ratio dictates that some men are forced to choose between those women and being single.
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Well I’m stumped. Changed name, changed e-mail, random IP, no traceable personal data… and still getting moderated.
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Oh, so now it suddenly works.
JM
I’d rather be alone than in an unsatisfying relationship. The kind of women I like either don’t exist or are inaccessible, so all the potential relationships that I have available, and will ever have available, are unsatisfying. I’m just not that desperate.
I’m only interested in longterm relationships, so game is useless to me. It also attracts the wrong kind of women, and isn’t compatible with my personality.
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Testing 1 2 3
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Ok, so I guess roissy has some kind of filter that automatically blocks posts containing certain words. That sure is useful.
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Seeking Alpha
Seeking Alpha
Extra hate from Sara today. What happened to spiritual love? An extra-planar person in touch with herself as a whole shouldn’t have a need to come on here and angrily berate strangers.
I see you’re playing the parental role today. Good for you, honey. Nothing “happened” to spiritual love, but here’s a news flash, I’m a hypocrite, but not really, since I freely and eagerly admit it. How ’bout you?
Ben
So as long as you’re being honest, besides the science, what is it like emotionally when having sex with a new man? One who is good, and one who isn’t? What’s the addiction like from your end?
I appreciate that you may not be like the rest, but is this some kind of morbid curiosity on your part? Addiction is addiction is addiction; great in the short run, deadly in the long run. When you’re reincarnated as a woman in your next life, you’ll know. I’ve only experienced it seriously once, but the greater the chemistry the greater the addiction and the more painful the withdrawals. It felt like my life was basically over and it’s taken years to get over most of it, and I will never be over all of it. He was a supreme player, which is why I take some of this shit personally.
The good news is, that his life IS basically over as I observe his continuing atrocities against women-kind from a chaste distance. It brought me to my knees, but I’m a survivor, Thank you at least for trying to protect women from themselves. Only a true MAN would do that. Roissy is a MOUSE.
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Ben–
Yeah, I’ve had some horsies. [said slowly, appraising her] …. Why, you interested. [smirk]
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“I appreciate that you may not be like the rest, but is this some kind of morbid curiosity on your part?” Truthfully, there’s a girl falling for me right now. She’s 29, I know she’s been with many men, and yet she says I make her feel like a teenager again. I want to be conscious of what she’s going through, and why.
“When you’re reincarnated as a woman in your next life, you’ll know.” I’d really like to know while it could still be useful to me. If you can’t explain it yourself, any books, fiction or otherwise, that describe it well? I’m not above reading a romance novel if absolutely necessary.
“It felt like my life was basically over and it’s taken years to get over most of it, and I will never be over all of it. He was a supreme player, which is why I take some of this shit personally.”
Own your emotions. You choose to feel as you do.
“Only a true MAN would do that. Roissy is a MOUSE.”
Roissy is a man; he embraces his own fear. He chooses the life he leads and is honest in his intentions. Few men would so publicly admit to being this rehearsed with women (a major social taboo). And he does so without false pretenses; unlike many PUAs, he does not put up pretenses, he doesn’t claim to be greater than he is. That he glorifies his victories and does not dwell on his failures, that’s healthy. He portrays a very well rehearsed character, and part of his allure is that you know that beneath it, he’s been burned before, been in love before, and accepts that part of himself as well.
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dougjnn
Best impromptu line I’ve had regarding horses:
Ben: Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
Shauna: You fuck horses?
Ben: You must have misheard about my reputation.
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Ben
Roissy is a man; he embraces his own fear.
Not only, but he feeds off the fear of others.
That he glorifies his victories and does not dwell on his failures, that’s healthy. He portrays a very well rehearsed character, and part of his allure is that you know that beneath it, he’s been burned before, been in love before, and accepts that part of himself as well.
Sorry, but it seems to me you are kissing the wrong ass.
As far as books that can describe the female falling love, sexual addiction, chemical attachment and ensuing hell that inevitably results? Not a clue.
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[…] I’ve been getting a lot of emails recently from readers who want to know how to square game with relationships. As has been discussed here before, game never ends. It is refined to suit the circumstances. In […]
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My Russian girlfriend told me she loved me – in Russian. While I was fucking her.
Sounds like “Ya looblu tebya”.
I had no idea what it meant at the time, but I liked it….
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is it appropriate to say ” me too” instead of “I Love You?” and if so, when is it appropriate to do so.
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[…] of her heart. In event of unreciprocated love, her tears will be real. The reader was redirected to this post for possible replies to an “I love you” from a woman one doesn’t love in return. […]
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My husband and I have been happily married fo 20 years and we always end our telephone conversations with “luvs”.
By the way, my husband is not a beta and I am not a fat cockblocking bitch. Quite the contrary. He is a hot alpha-type male and considers me the sexy librarian type. My coworkers are jealous because he is much better looking than their beta husbands although I am a very conservative woman. I love it when they overhear me because when they talk to their husbands it is usually to nag him or yell at him about something.
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[…] check out Roissy’s post on saying “I love you.” The first point about never saying it first is […]
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