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Chateau Heartiste

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« Alpha Move Of The Day
Eluding ‘I Have A Boyfriend’ »

Used

March 23, 2009 by CH

Three girls, two guys. One of the guys was obviously gay. (hellOOOO) He had gay face. The girl closest to me, a blonde with a wholesome midwestern look, strokes my jacket sleeve.

“I like the way your jacket feels.”

“Any excuse to cop a feel, eh?”

“What’s it made of?”

“Silkworm. It’s very rare.” I scan the group trying to figure out the social dynamic. One girl was talking to the (presumably) straight guy in intense, eyes locked conversation. She would not cockblock. Another girl was glancing expectantly around the room, perhaps waiting for a boyfriend? She was a cockblock threat. The gay guy was a fat black man playing the role of the mother hen. He was a high risk cockblock.

I address the gay first. “Is your friend here always like this? Touching random stranger’s jackets?”

“Don’t we all!” (Boy, do I know how to call it). “She’s a sweetheart. Isn’t that right, Katy?”

“Yeah, that’s what I want him to think.” She winks at me. The gay turns away and begins sipping his drink through a straw loudly, exaggerating the purse of his lips. He would no longer be a threat. She must have signaled him. I missed the signal. Too subtle.

I talk with Katy for ten minutes before remembering to check her single status. Gotta be smooth when screening for BFs. “How do you know everyone here?”

She gives me the rundown. The other guy is the BF of the girl talking to him. I lean in a little closer to her ear.

“Your friend here,” I motion toward her single friend craning her neck and searching the room, “looks like she’s waiting patiently for someone.”

“Yeah, her boyfriend is coming.”

I lean back and let a few seconds pass. She smiles at me. Ok, I was in the clear. Katy was the odd girl out. Fresh unspoiled meat.

We talk for a half hour. My game is not the sharpest it’s been, in fact I’m a little bit sloppy, but she eats it up like a hungry she-wolf. In hindsight, her extremely positive reaction to my less than stellar game should have been a red flag, but I carried on as if the number close, or even the same night bang, was inevitable. As evidenced by all the arm touching and flicking of hair, she responds very well. Time for a calculated reposition.

“Hey, looks like your friends are pretty busy having fun in their own world. There’s an empty space just over there where we can sit and be a little more comfortable. Let’s move.”

Her smile goes crooked. “Well… I’m waiting for my boyfriend. He’s coming here, too.” She shrugs her shoulders and raises her eyebrows apologetically.

BEEEEEYOTCH.

I stare at her with steely eyes until she gets slightly uncomfortable. I am not smiling at all. I want her to notice my displeasure. I think about calling her out in the manner of Roosh’s campaign to call out cockblocks and shame them in public. Perhaps say something like “I didn’t think you’d be the type of girl to conveniently forget to mention your boyfriend just for attention from other guys. I wonder what he would think of that?”

Instead, I held my tongue and simply gave her the backturn. She didn’t attempt to re-engage. She knew she had committed a grievous lie of omission and the jig was up.

I was used. Emotional rape. She had exacted her tribute — a half hour of my valuable time and energy that could have been better spent on available women. Mission accomplished: Ego validated.

Thinking back, I see a pattern. Girls with boyfriends are often the happiest girls to be the target of my game. They are bored; they need that constant revalidation of their desirability to new men. They may or may not be in love with their boyfriends, it doesn’t seem to matter much. The need for male attention is an addiction that never really goes away, even when they’re 70 and the young man tells them how fetching their blue hair is. Only girls who are deeply in love are granted temporary immunity from the urge to whore attention. This phase usually lasts about 6 months. Two years tops.

Soulmates who never need validation from anyone else but each other are as rare as pink diamonds. If you are in this type of relationship, count your blessings. You have won the quality girl lottery.

Later, I chastised myself for not getting her to cough up the BF information sooner.

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Posted in Girls, Rules of Manhood, Self-aggrandizement | 139 Comments

139 Responses

  1. on March 23, 2009 at 12:04 pm Anonymous

    Aww, so she used you first, before you could use her? How tragic!!

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  2. on March 23, 2009 at 12:07 pm ironrailsironweights

    That sucks. Wasting time is even worse than wasting money, because when time is gone, it’s gone forever.

    Peter

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  3. on March 23, 2009 at 12:11 pm omw

    Poor dear.

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  4. on March 23, 2009 at 12:14 pm Sara I

    omw

    I second that.

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  5. on March 23, 2009 at 12:15 pm Sara I

    Roissy you are a crack up. Taking things so personally? Your precious time! What goes around comes around.

    LikeLike


  6. on March 23, 2009 at 12:24 pm Tupac Chopra

    Some girls just like to socialize. They can’t afford to neurotically wonder if every guys that talks to them is gaming them. Don’t sweat it.

    I don’t bother wondering about BF’s. I just plow, and then later decide to pursue or eject. No harm, no foul.

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  7. on March 23, 2009 at 12:26 pm lehuster

    I thought there was an alpha strategy to overcome the tiresome existence of boyfriends. And I would have thought talking to you for 30 minutes without mentioning this guy would be an important signal that she’s interested in you regardless of the fact that she has a boyfriend.

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  8. on March 23, 2009 at 12:29 pm Sebastian Flyte

    Eject, sarge the gay. Simple. Cunts like this need to be called out, for sure. In fact, you know what the REALLY annoying thing is? Half hour sarge raises her buying temperature (BT) enormously. BT is very very transferable, so when she met her boyfriend she was probably all over him because of the BT spike, he probably had really really good sex that night, all because of Roissy’s sarge. A public service, I would say. But you’re not a socialist.

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  9. on March 23, 2009 at 12:32 pm jkc

    kudos for writing about your game failures too.

    for those guests here who lack game, or are learning, pay attention. these stories may be useful.

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  10. on March 23, 2009 at 12:35 pm Antonio

    Friday night I fell for the same thing. Luckily I was already disengaging by chatting up another (hotter) chick. At least you found out about the boyfriend at the bar, I found out after the close.

    Some variation of this would be fun:
    http://www.break.com/index/she-has-a-boyfriend.html

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  11. on March 23, 2009 at 12:35 pm Tampa

    Fucking whore. She’ll be in divoce court in under 5 years. Will surely be banging the gardener by the 40th month of marraige

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  12. on March 23, 2009 at 12:39 pm PA

    “I like the way your jacket feels.”
    “Any excuse to cop a feel, eh?”
    “What’s it made of?”
    “Silkworm. It’s very rare.”

    Sounds like she parried / ignored your neg.

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  13. on March 23, 2009 at 12:44 pm Roosh

    I’m noticing this more often. I swear 5 years ago girls would hesitate much more to flirt with a guy in a bar while the boyfriend eats ritz crackers at home.

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  14. on March 23, 2009 at 12:45 pm Anon

    Looks like an amateur got punked.

    Any guy who flaps his lips at a chick for a goddamned HALF HOUR and strokes her ego at the expense of his flacid dick deserves to go home alone.

    By that time, you should’ve long been doing something more constructive like taking her to another section of bar, stroking her, testing her with a kiss, etc.

    She did what all bitches do and led another chump on, but you were the one that wasted your own time.

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  15. on March 23, 2009 at 12:47 pm biktopia

    I like to take it slow, even if i see a guy i like i rather have a phone number or so.
    I love to go out and have great weekend and getting drunk and dance. I’m not out on a mission getting a boyfriend or laid, and i also don’t pretend to be.
    Soo, certain places i don’t like to visit, coz the whole place is full of hyenas just waiting.
    When a guy approach me in a bar i don’t know anything about i rather decline his approach . I had some accidents in the past with this so i rather don’t go there again.
    So these guys probably thinks they got rejected coz i think im so posh or sth, but its not.
    I rather like to meet people that knows my friends, like at parties, they are much politer and with them i can actually have a talk, i prefer to have a good talk or a crazy evening with friends when i go out, more then anything. Im seriously scared of the way guys can approach me sometimes.

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  16. on March 23, 2009 at 12:47 pm Anon

    “I’m noticing this more often. I swear 5 years ago girls would hesitate much more to flirt with a guy in a bar while the boyfriend eats ritz crackers at home.”

    Nah, your game is just improving and you can see through the bullshit and the attention whoring that ALL women desire.

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  17. on March 23, 2009 at 12:48 pm DF

    You know chicks are shady. You’ve expended a great deal of energy and time on this blog writing to that effect so what was so unexpected? I figure by now you would have a canned response or some routine for this sort of scenario. This shit happens all the time. The hottest girls always, and I mean always have a prospects and yes maybe even a boyfriend that they may or may not be happy with.

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  18. on March 23, 2009 at 1:00 pm dougjnn

    Sebastian —

    Yeah. You’re right. Good observation.

    This also works when you’re the bf. Works to your advantage I mean. Let her flirt up to a point. Encourage her to even. It does juice her up. (But you flirt too, without necessarily doing it simultaneously.)

    It’s part of why you should encourage your good girl gf to dress sexily in an elegant or knowledgeable sort of way when she goes out with you, at least some of the time. You have to be on top of things with her though. Well you have to be that for anything to work.

    The exact WRONG dynamic is if SHE is the one pushing to dress sexily, especially without you, and you try to discourage that.

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  19. on March 23, 2009 at 1:06 pm dougjnn

    Roissy —

    What’s unclear to me is whether this girl might have been open to cheating on her bf. Maybe you weren’t into that at that moment; i.e. maybe you were much more looking for a gf at the time.

    The fact that she didn’t want to go off and sit in a corner with you when her bf was expected imminently only means she doesn’t walk all over him. And … she might have backed off further flirting in place prelude to giving you her number because she felt YOU were put off any further pursuit of her because she does have a bf and wouldn’t be exclusive with you.

    Why not probe her cheating interest, or openness to being torn away from her bf? Or wasn’t she hot enough for that?

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  20. on March 23, 2009 at 1:06 pm I Fuck Bitches

    I give bitches 10 minutes. If by the 11th minute I’m not fucking them, then I know to move on. Because bitches are for fucking, not for talking to.

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  21. on March 23, 2009 at 1:07 pm The Limey

    Why do you have to be smooth when screening for BFs? Asking directly will indicate to her that you’re interested enough in her to know whether she’s single. Is that the problem, giving too much away?

    I got a number close in a bar last week from a girl who was looking around a little. I came straight out and asked if she was waiting for her boyfriend, and she replied that she didn’t have one.

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  22. on March 23, 2009 at 1:07 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    emotional rape? Dude relax, this wasn’t really a big deal.

    LikeLike


  23. on March 23, 2009 at 1:08 pm Firepower

    goddamn this suuucks.

    I just got the bf block from a cashier this weekend while I was out bringing home the bacon.

    No targets in the store, so I just used her fug ass for practice. One non-interested question about fashion (she was a goth). I get “well, my bf says…”

    Boom. Out of the blue.

    Men are fools if we presume women will lay the bf card on the table out of courtesy – up front and forthwith in a declaration to obligation of duty.

    Women are users, always seeking to get more than they give. A Succubus would feel shame. Their like children pulling wings off of butterflies.

    That fake IOI shit they pull even AS THEY CONSCIOUSLY KNOW they will invest NO effort into convo is despicable.

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  24. on March 23, 2009 at 1:12 pm dougjnn

    Roissy you are a crack up. Taking things so personally? Your precious time! What goes around comes around.

    The core fact behind Sara’s sometimes bizarre oscillations on the subject of Roissy is that he’s a proxy to her for her alpha player ex boyfriend. The ex who repeatedly broke her heart but won back her intense love and burning sexual craving, while he often treated her like his fuck buddy. She wants to lash out at and punish this proxy, but is also deeply fascinated and attracted to him, to Roissy.

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  25. on March 23, 2009 at 1:18 pm I Fuck Bitches

    Sara is a bitch. I’d fuck her.

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  26. on March 23, 2009 at 1:42 pm Thursday

    Girls are _such_ little attention sucks. This one of _the_ most annoying parts of pick up. Going direct with “Hey, I thought you were cute and wanted to meet you” is not enough. Often even heavy kino is not enough. It is amazing how much touching you can get away with with girls who have boyfriends. Even worse than girls with boyfriends though are attention starved married girls. They will hide their rings behind their back, or slip it into their purse.

    That is why it is important to set strong sexual frame really early, even if you aren’t going to try to lay her. Sinn advocates making a statement like, “If you keep being cool, I’m going to start seriously hitting on you,” or “If you keep being cool, I’m going to have to try and have sex with you. I don’t know if I’ll succeed, but I _am_ very charming.” Cajun advocate just coming out and saying, “I’d like to hang out with you and get to know you and stuff, but I’d also really like to fuck you.” (See Cajun’s interview here. Got to 4:55.) I haven’t used any of this stuff yet, but girls with boyfriends are a major problem at some of my favourite venues.

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  27. on March 23, 2009 at 1:45 pm Chuck

    The sad thing is she probably used you guys’ conversation to tell her boyfriend, when he finally got there, that some guy (you) was trying to hit on her just to make him a little jealous.

    Triflin’ hoes.

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  28. on March 23, 2009 at 1:48 pm Anon2

    I admit that I totally do this, except that I am married and clearly have rings on.

    Although this wasn’t the case since the other two girls were taken, but sometimes I don’t bring it up because I’m with single girls who are chatting with guys, and I don’t want to be an outcast.

    Also, it’s flattering.

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  29. on March 23, 2009 at 1:49 pm jonathanjones02

    Roissy, maybe she just really interested in what you had to say!

    Seriously though, I can’t stand attention whores.

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  30. on March 23, 2009 at 2:11 pm agnostic

    Is the flaming gay friend a red flag? Not many of them out here in the Mountain Time Zone, so you probably have more data to draw on in DC.

    Seems like only the most attention-whoring women hang out with gays. Not as in, “I have a gay friend at work,” but who they regularly go out with.

    I unwittingly went to a club during a gay night, and all the females there were ego-inflated, fat, aging, ugly broads. You’d think with all the stuff you hear online — without pictures — that the women who say they like to go to gay clubs so that they don’t get molested by guys, are actually pretty good-looking and would get pestered at a straight club.

    No way. They’re hideous beasts who use their slumming-it trips to Fag Land to keep their ego from completely deflating — “Thank god I can dance without being groped for once!”

    The best-looking girls don’t need gay friends to inflate their egos — they have legions of straight friends who do that already. And having the gay friend inflate their ego is tantamount to admitting they’re receiving charity.

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  31. on March 23, 2009 at 2:13 pm Obsidian

    Hmm. Oh dear.

    I’ve learned that the last place to meet Women is in the club or bar. When I’m there, its usually just to hangout w/my homies to bust it up. That’s it.

    Usually what happens though, is that me and my team tends to create a vortex of energy and other people begin to come around; if that happens it allows me and the team to asses things.

    If the gal seems interesting one of us might say something, otherwise we just keep talking. I’ve done that many times. You’d be surprised how many Women will hang around waiting for you to notice them.

    And, busting it up w/a gal in such a venue for more than a half and coming up short? Hmm. Women always know if they want you to hit it within about 90 seconds upon first meeting. Everything else is either works to confirm or deny that first impression.

    In O’s world, Women who go to clubs etc are fair game. The boyfriend rap is a ruse, or a you know what shield. You didn’t make the cut, and we all know that Women, on average, are far and away more needy in the attention department than we are. I’m just sayin’.

    Some playas like to chase poon down. I like setting the trap. Let her do some work for a change.

    O

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  32. on March 23, 2009 at 2:15 pm Brad

    These attention whores really blow my mind. The above situation has happened to me quite a few times. This is why I’m all for the 10 minute conversation and then cut-off (unless it’s obvious I can do a same-night swoop or I’m going for a makeout close because I think it will further my chances of a fuck close on the first meet). Also, cutting off conversation at 10 minutes, especially if it’s going really well, amplifies the attraction (not always, you have to make a good impression, create sexual tension, touch, establish dominance and gain attraction in the first place for this to work). When I do this, they usually cling, (i.e. “your leaving?? ALREADY?? NOOO..”)

    Being a good technique, when women leave me before 10 minutes, I get clingy. Usually the things we do best work on us when they are performed on us, despite my better knowledge, I usually get caught up in it everytime, I commented on this in the last post.

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  33. on March 23, 2009 at 2:24 pm M with the dot

    I was used. Emotional rape. She had exacted her tribute — a half hour of my valuable time and energy that could have been better spent on available women.

    Emotional rape? I guess that’s one way of looking at it.

    Another frame: you had a fun and interesting interaction that lasted for half an hour during which you built a bit of social proof — the chicks in the vicinity must have noted that she that the girl to be into you. If you’re coming from a frame of outcome indifference and you’re emotionally unreactive, a comment like that shouldn’t affect you. At all.

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  34. on March 23, 2009 at 2:24 pm Stimulus package

    Girls are _such_ little attention sucks. This one of _the_ most annoying parts of pick up. Going direct with “Hey, I thought you were cute and wanted to meet you” is not enough. Often even heavy kino is not enough. It is amazing how much touching you can get away with with girls who have boyfriends. Even worse than girls with boyfriends though are attention starved married girls. They will hide their rings behind their back, or slip it into their purse.

    That is why it is important to set strong sexual frame really early, even if you aren’t going to try to lay her. Sinn advocates making a statement like, “If you keep being cool, I’m going to start seriously hitting on you,” or “If you keep being cool, I’m going to have to try and have sex with you. I don’t know if I’ll succeed, but I _am_ very charming.” Cajun advocate just coming out and saying, “I’d like to hang out with you and get to know you and stuff, but I’d also really like to fuck you.” (See Cajun’s interview here. Got to 4:55.) I haven’t used any of this stuff yet, but girls with boyfriends are a major problem at some of my favourite venues.

    Anybody have any thoughts on how to handle married/attached/single women in workplace or non-meat market social settings who’s prefered method of flirting is wearing slutty or risque’ clothing?Especially when you have reason to believe the fashion show is meant specifically for you?I dont think the approach above would work very well outside a bar or party.

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  35. on March 23, 2009 at 2:26 pm M with the dot

    the chicks in the vicinity must have noted that she that the girl to be into you.

    I’m good at messing up sentences. Should read: the chicks in the vicinity must have noticed that she looked to be into you.

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  36. on March 23, 2009 at 2:34 pm Lash

    Her smile goes crooked. “Well… I’m waiting for my boyfriend. He’s coming here, too.” She shrugs her shoulders and raises her eyebrows apologetically.

    Roissy, I felt my innards crumple then uncrumple again with recognition. You reacted just appropriately (and the way I would have too): by fixing her with a stare of disapproval and cutting your time losses. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

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  37. on March 23, 2009 at 2:36 pm Kick a Bitch

    haha… that’s fucked up. you should have sea-gulled her

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  38. on March 23, 2009 at 2:54 pm Sebastian Flyte

    “That is why it is important to set strong sexual frame really early”

    Imagining every girl you sarge or are about to sarge naked, right there before you, is also useful for getting in sexual state. You become more witty, dominant and most importantly – plow a lot more in this sexual state.

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  39. on March 23, 2009 at 3:12 pm 11 minutes

    Because bitches are for fucking, not for talking to.

    You obviously don’t know how to properly fuck a woman.

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  40. on March 23, 2009 at 3:19 pm Sparks123

    You got gamed, heh.

    Soulmates who never need validation from anyone else but each other are as rare as pink diamonds.

    What are players other than validation whores? Maybe they can spout off a bunch of evolutionary theory about why it’s OK for them but not for women, but in effect players do what they do because they want as much validation from women as possible.

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  41. on March 23, 2009 at 3:20 pm Mack

    The roissy-whining is hilarious. Seriously, for a guy that had no problem dancing and flirting with girls at dance clubs while he was dating a sweet girl for a year and a half, there is zero room to complain. It’s all part of the game right? If you can’t deal with it, then get out of the game.

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/a-hole-game-day-1/

    two words: double. standard.

    The first comment was awesome btw.

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  42. on March 23, 2009 at 3:39 pm Kick a Bitch

    players do what they do because they want as much validation from women as possible.

    uh… i think it’s more like players want as much tight, hot, young snappy-nappy dugout wrapped around their johnsons.

    i mean, ‘m just saying… i imagine i could be wrong on this one

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  43. on March 23, 2009 at 3:42 pm uh

    Interesting insights, Sparks!

    Validation whores, emotional rape victims, prey of predator sluts; I’m actually starting to feel a little sorry for man-kind. Poor babies. No wonder you lash out so.

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  44. on March 23, 2009 at 3:51 pm dougjnn

    Mack

    two words: double. standard.

    Two words: feminist programing.

    Double standards re: some things male/female are entirely appropriate because men and women are not the same, and in some ways are quite different.

    Embrace double standards. We do. Without apology.

    The slut / player one clearly makes sense and is appropriate as just one obvious example. If you don’t understand why you are REALLY immersed in feminist programing.

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  45. on March 23, 2009 at 4:07 pm felsted

    it doesnt bother me as much when a woman talks to me, then tells me after a long convo that she has a boyfriend.

    the only time it bothers me is if she tells me about the boyfriend TWO DAYS LATER…AFTER I GOT HER PHONE NUMBER…AND WHILE WE’RE TALKING ON THE PHONE. or even worse:L AFTER YOU GO ON WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE DATE…the conversation goes ridiculously well…youre already wondering if you have any condoms in your wallet…then at the end of the night you lean in for the kiss only to have her naively say: “…UHHH, I THOUGHT WE WERE JUST FRIENDS?”

    guys, has this ever happened to you? when she drops the “boyfriend” bomb after youre already a week into it, rather than on the night you met her?

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  46. on March 23, 2009 at 4:11 pm MarkD

    At least you didn’t buy her a drink.

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  47. on March 23, 2009 at 4:12 pm Lupo

    Roosh: “I swear 5 years ago girls would hesitate much more to flirt with a guy in a bar while the boyfriend eats ritz crackers at home.”

    Nah; it was always thus. You just were less aware when you were younger. I know I was.

    I agree with Agnostic: girls who hang with poufs are almost always very bad people. Most women who hang with poufs see themselves as gay men. Women who see themselves as gay men are not actually women; they’re fembots. Good for fucking in the toilet stall, but not much else.

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  48. on March 23, 2009 at 4:13 pm Mack

    dougjnn – oh god, don’t bring in all this pseudo philosophical gobbledy-gook to validate roissy’s whining. if he is so insecure that he can’t take talking to a girl for a mere 30min without scoring with her, then he is the real woman here.

    he even admits his game wasn’t that hot that night, why apologize for bad game?

    frankly his whole post is classic beta. every single word. a real alpha wouldn’t do the beta cold-stare, he would just walk off to the next person and NOT CARE. Do people here even read the other posts?

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  49. on March 23, 2009 at 4:32 pm Absinthe

    What do you think of making the neg a boyfriend test. When she said “I like the way your jacket feels”, reply with “does your boyfriend know you cop feels from strange men.” Or when she told you that the girl searching the room was waiting for her boyfriend, comment that “everyone has someone except you”. In a cocky but funny way of course.

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  50. on March 23, 2009 at 4:33 pm Sara I

    I fuck bitches

    Sara is a bitch. I’d fuck her.

    In my personal experience and from what I’ve been told, bitches are better fucks. In my case, I’m as loving, passionate, loyal, giving, appreciative, generous, freedom loving and giving, supportive, and encouraging as they come. Sex on average 1 and 1/2 times per day will keep me happy. I only want the same in return as far as how I’m treated. If you turn on me, I’ll tell you where to put it. I will also forgive and forget quite easily. I do NOT suppress anger, or love, or passion, or hate, or any emotion whatever. I’m more hard on the outside at times (when “needed” haha) and soft on the inside.

    There’s another type of woman (many types of course) who are just the opposite; soft on the outside and hard on the inside. They suppress anger, hate, jealousy, etc. and their needs, wants and desires and become submissive to their man’s entire life.

    This seems like a great thing, but trust me it is not. All that suppressed negative emotion and personal desires, you will pay for and it won’t be pretty. She will find ways to manipulate you into giving her what SHE wants and needs and we all know that doesn’t work. She’ll get physically ill from suppressing all that anger and then you’ll have to take care of her. I am healthy as a horse!

    It’s unfortunately a little intimidating for men to be with such a strong woman. They love the sex but most run away at the first sign of conflict. I respect men who stand up to me, but haven’t found one yet. Damn!

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  51. on March 23, 2009 at 4:43 pm Chuck

    i’m interested to know the prelude to this story. what happened leading up to her petting your silkworm? how and why was she positioned in such close quarters?

    Sparks:

    “but in effect players do what they do because they want as much validation from women as possible.”

    No. Players or men at bars do what they do because they either want to get laid, looking for a good time, or just plain seeing if they can find someone interesting. *Most* guys aren’t doing their thing out of sheer selfishness, they truly hope the woman enjoys her time with him too. It’s a symbiotic relationship.

    Men don’t approach random women *just* for the emotional validation. OK, maybe occasionally we’ll allow a fat chick to boost our ego as a primer, but overall, guys’ activities are a means to an end, the end being a hopefully fun time for all. This broad’s attention-whoring is solely for validation with no other goal than to make herself feel better.

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  52. on March 23, 2009 at 4:52 pm Keith

    “Well… I’m waiting for my boyfriend. He’s coming here, too.”

    Does he have my fine taste in jackets?

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  53. on March 23, 2009 at 4:55 pm Sara I

    A real man enjoys a flirt whether it gets him laid or not. Do you think James Bond would throw a hissy fit? No. He’d have a fun one liner to toss her way. If you’re not enjoying the game, play something else. You need to lighten up and just enjoy life more, roissy. You’re too goal and ego oriented. You wasted 30 minutes? You could have used the 30 minutes you saved somewhere else and been even.

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  54. on March 23, 2009 at 5:06 pm Anon

    How do you know she REALLY had a boyfriend?

    It seems just as likely she didn’t but simply decided you didn’t make the cut.

    Maybe you weren’t “emotionally raped” at all – you were simply rejected. No biggie.

    You displayed your personality for 30 minutes, it didn’t work, and the chic decided to end it by claiming she had a boyfriend.

    Cut and dried. Not a big deal at all.

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  55. on March 23, 2009 at 5:08 pm gig

    It’s PUA-hating season in this blog!

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  56. on March 23, 2009 at 5:09 pm Kthulah

    I couldn’t see flirting with someone else if I was in a committed relationship. I can understand a guy feeling that it was a waste of his time because the girl is letting him think he has a chance when he doesn’t. Nobody male or female enjoys having their mind played with maliciously.

    It’s not malice to want to get laid, or even bring someone down to a level one can relate to sans delusions of grandeur. It is malice to want to break someone else down to a level one can step on.

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  57. on March 23, 2009 at 5:10 pm PA

    Roissy, bad night out, eh bud? sloppy game, lost your cool… Hey, I’m not a PUA but I can also relate. Got some bad memories too. Sometimes it works out a little like that:

    I’ve been down the streets of desire
    Sometimes I was so uninspired

    – Loverboy, “This Could be the Night”

    Fuckin’ awesome song. Heard it in the freeweights room of my gym yesterday. First time since probably 1986.

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  58. on March 23, 2009 at 5:12 pm Sara I

    dougjnn

    The ex who repeatedly broke her heart but won back her intense love and burning sexual craving, while he often treated her like his fuck buddy.

    The ex was passive aggressive; extremely so, and the same personality type as my father. It brought up powerfully intense father issues I didn’t even know I had. For that I thank him…after the fact. In my experience there’s no greater hell than being deeply in love with a passive aggressive man. PA behavior even puts trained psychiatrists over the edge.

    As far as attraction to roissy? I find his type interesting in a clinical way, but not sexual. I don’t think we’d get along with each other very well! He’s too young, I’m too old, I’m too smart, he’s too dumb, you know…

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  59. on March 23, 2009 at 5:13 pm Anon

    What’s frustrating is that it is possible to actually invest 30 minutes in an encounter only for a girl to decide that in the end, you’re not good enough.

    The moment you tried to force the issue by moving locations, she had no choice but to make it clear that she wasn’t interested – but really, it shouldn’t take 30 minutes to make that decision. She should have shown much less interest much earlier.

    There’s really no way out of that, though.

    It’s a well known fact that you can literally spend hours with a girl, with everything going great, even making out, when suddenly a more alpha guy comes along and voila – all those hours are suddenly meaningless. One of the reasons it’s impossible to respect women very much.

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  60. on March 23, 2009 at 5:13 pm Wondering

    Aside from the overt arm touching and flicking of hair- I often wonder what a nice girl such as myself should do in this situation.

    My boyfriend and I aren’t tethered to each other, so naturally there could be occasions where i find myself out with my coworkers/friends, and someone will try to “network” into me. are you supposed to announce “IM TAKEN” immediately? how long is the prescribed friendly length of conversation before its ok to passively drop the bf reference? I mean, im just trying to soften the blow and not seem like a bitch. I get why you (the guy) are talking to me, and i dont want to appear rude, just not quite sure the proper way of getting out of it.

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  61. on March 23, 2009 at 5:14 pm Kthulah

    Anon says, “Maybe you weren’t “emotionally raped” at all – you were simply rejected.”

    Simply saying, “Look, you seem like a cool guy, but before this goes any further, I’m not interested in getting with you,” would have done the job without lying.

    I’ve found that most guys (except the entitlement jerks) handle honesty very well.

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  62. on March 23, 2009 at 5:15 pm PA

    PA behavior even puts trained psychiatrists over the edge.

    I make shrinks lose their hair? cool!

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  63. on March 23, 2009 at 5:15 pm Kthulah

    Wondering wonders, “are you supposed to announce “IM TAKEN” immediately?”

    Yes.

    In a pub or club or any kind of meatmarket type situation, definitely as soon as you can get a word in.

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  64. on March 23, 2009 at 5:21 pm PA

    Wondering wonders, “are you supposed to announce “IM TAKEN” immediately?”

    Yes (Kthula)

    Seconding Kthula above. If “I’m taken” seems too abrupt, than at least don’t flirt, smile coyly, and shine your eyes at a guy who is obviously trying to pick you up. This isn’t PhD work, It’s Good Girl 101 material

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  65. on March 23, 2009 at 5:24 pm Doug Jones

    Reminds me of the scenes from the show “snuff box”:
    Him: “blah blah blah blah”
    Her: “blah blah my boyfriend blah blah”
    Him: “Fuck you.”

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  66. on March 23, 2009 at 5:30 pm Anon

    Kthulah – I agree, but maybe the girl didn’t realize she could get out of it so easily.

    It’s complex. Maybe she was really into Roissy at first and gave tons of IOI’s and and then as the encounter unfolded decided she made a mistake but felt that her initial enthusiasm made a strong ending necessary.

    Game is by it’s nature very assertive, so maybe she didn’t realize she could get rid of a strong, assertive male by simply being honest and felt heavier guns were needed.

    Maybe she felt embarrassed ending it straight after being so enthusiastic at first and decided to spare herself the embarrassment.

    It’s a complex emotional situation, especially when you’re dealing with a non-rational, emotion-driven woman.

    All I’m saying is that Roissy’s premise in his post is unproven – maybe he simply got rejected.

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  67. on March 23, 2009 at 5:33 pm Anonymous

    I don’t think there is anything wrong with flirting, even if you know it isn’t leading anywhere. Just because you are taken doesn’t mean that you are dead.

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  68. on March 23, 2009 at 5:43 pm Gunslingergregi

    It is Roissy with morals/conviction. I like it. Says to shame then sticks by his words and goes for the shaming not his own personnal notch.

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  69. on March 23, 2009 at 5:44 pm mnl

    the only time it bothers me is if she tells me about the boyfriend TWO DAYS LATER…AFTER I GOT HER PHONE NUMBER…AND WHILE WE’RE TALKING ON THE PHONE. or even worse:L AFTER YOU GO ON WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE DATE…the conversation goes ridiculously well…youre already wondering if you have any condoms in your wallet…then at the end of the night you lean in for the kiss only to have her naively say: “…UHHH, I THOUGHT WE WERE JUST FRIENDS?” /

    Are you sure this isn’t some sort of shit test? It sounds like it’s as much a shit test as a belated cockblock. But either way, if you react to it directly, then it’s a definite fail. You simply can’t take it seriously. If you’ve gone this far with her, if the IOI’s were there, if there was some kino exchange (when in person), then I think you need to treat it as all part of the game. You’ve got to emotionally spank her, subtly threaten her with displeasure, make her feel the risk of rejection. With a grin and a roll of the eyes, you change your stance to put some distance between the two of you. You might then say… “Well I’ve got plenty of friends. Which category are you? An entry in my numerous friends list or one who might be more?” …coming in closer for the “might be more” line. …But that might be too direct for some. Again with a grin, you could simply ask, “what the hell is a friend? Please tell me. I’ve never had one before.” You just can’t take it seriously.

    I see the same general thing from married women all the time. So many of them are, at heart, attention whores. They like the thrill of the flirt, the drama of feeling hunted but don’t want their behavior called out right then and there. They’ll give IOIs one moment and then retreat by referencing a husband a few minutes later. I suspect these women are emotionally conflicted. They’re safe with their beta provider but safety = boredom. But to fully admit this boredom to themselves would mean acknowledging they should change the situation. …And they just don’t have the balls. So, instead, they’d rather just “let it happen”, occasionally putting on the brakes–both as part of a shit test and to prevent self-acknowledgment. In those situations, I just sit back and and enjoy the emotional show! With a frame that I’m the one who’s ultimately entertained by the true dynamic of it all, I’m not taken for a ride.

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  70. on March 23, 2009 at 5:45 pm mnl

    Damn, I hate it when italics run amok.

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  71. on March 23, 2009 at 5:45 pm Gunslingergregi

    If you can be true to yourself you can accomplish almost anything.

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  72. on March 23, 2009 at 5:46 pm PA

    Gunslinger, just wanna say that was a cool thing you said on another thread, how there is no trash in trailer parks. Can’t fint that comment now but it was excellent.

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  73. on March 23, 2009 at 6:03 pm Chuck

    Anonymous:

    “Just because you are taken doesn’t mean that you are dead.”

    Yes it does.

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  74. on March 23, 2009 at 6:04 pm Sparks123

    Fuckin’ awesome song. Heard it in the freeweights room of my gym yesterday. First time since probably 1986.

    Loverboy is a tremendously underrated 80s band. Everybody knows “Working For The Weekend” but they have other also fantastic songs like “Turn Me Loose,” “Hot Girls In Love,” “When It’s Over” and “Take Me To The Top.”

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  75. on March 23, 2009 at 6:20 pm David Alexander

    Emotional rape. She had exacted her tribute — a half hour of my valuable time and energy that could have been better spent on available women. Mission accomplished: Ego validated.

    Of course, for you, as an alpha, that was rape. For me as a beta, it’s merely a sign that while I’m still unattractive to 95% of all females, I’m still decent enough for society’s purpose. In other words, I’d feel rather decent.

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  76. on March 23, 2009 at 6:24 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    “A real man enjoys a flirt whether it gets him laid or not. Do you think James Bond would throw a hissy fit? No. He’d have a fun one liner to toss her way. If you’re not enjoying the game, play something else. You need to lighten up and just enjoy life more, roissy. You’re too goal and ego oriented. You wasted 30 minutes? You could have used the 30 minutes you saved somewhere else and been even.”

    For once, I agree with one of Sara’s posts. Hell, Mystery even has a chapter on this in the book. You can’t be so outcome oriented. As long as you game well and have fun, you will get laid frequently, and missing out on one because she wanted the little ego-boost from you shouldn’t be that catastrophic to warrant an “emotional rape”. Women enjoy being gamed well, and you should enjoy honing your skills and just having a 30 minute interaction.

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  77. on March 23, 2009 at 6:25 pm HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPOS YO

    David Alexander, shut up. All you do is come on here and fucking whine, do you even want to try and improve your life or just constantly bitch about it on the internet?

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  78. on March 23, 2009 at 6:54 pm Max from Australia

    My first intro line is often a playfull

    “so whats happened to your poor long suffering husband”

    This gets out lots of info and can be used in many teasing ways.

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  79. on March 23, 2009 at 7:00 pm Bhetti

    Roissy, it is posts like these that make people think the Chris Browns of the world can reform. YOU ARE DOING PEOPLE A DISSERVICE BY SHOWING THE CAPACITY FOR HURT.

    You know what’s funny? Regardless of their beta-loving or alpha-loving status, people (with exceptions) ripped into you for showing a hint of vulnerability or weakness, instead of encouraging the vestige of humanity (and humanity is oh so hypocritical) it showed. The standards are uniform, whether people know it or not.

    I did honestly find it shocking that you would call it emotional rape, you must’ve really liked her. Or maybe your pride was hurt, you knew better and you let yourself become “complacent”. It’s sometimes doubtful whether you do have the discrimination to care about boyfriend status or not (Do you ever have the thought of… I’ll sleep with her, then make sure he finds out? If not, seems like looks ain’t the only thing that’s important).

    I think something to remember about Game is the former incarnations of those who submerge in it: they felt they need to know it for whatever reason in the first place.

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  80. on March 23, 2009 at 7:01 pm Howard Roark

    Wondering, the answer depends on how starved for validation of your attractiveness in the eyes of other men you are. Not very starved? Well, then mention the bf right off. If he ignores you, that means he’s clearly an asshole. What? famished, you say? In that case, string him along until optimal ego assuage-ment has been acheived. Tell him you have a boyfriend only when he tries to kiss you or asks for your number. Remember: you’re not responsible for male actions; men are dangerous predators and you’re just a nice girl trying to have a good time. So do what YOU feel is right. But don’t forget to always dress sexy and show some cleavage. You are the center of your perfect little universe. OMG, aren’t you late for bikram yoga?

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  81. on March 23, 2009 at 7:06 pm dougjnn

    mnl-

    Any good closing with married women stories?

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  82. on March 23, 2009 at 7:28 pm z

    Ladies,

    Lets turn this around.

    Imagine you meet a guy at a bar. He saddles up to you and says, “hey, my friends are apparently having a deep intense discussion about their relationship, and I dont want to hear their personal things, ……………………so its just me, wanna hang and share a drink and watch these drunks dance out there?”

    Imagine that he is good looking, very good looking. You two talk and he tells you a few quite funny jokes, has a few interesting personal stories, seemingly really listens to you, you get the feeling he is a winner, he looks you up and down and gives you the subtle signals that he finds you sexually attractive, and he compliments you appearance and smarts, the two of you end up laughing about people in the crowd who remind you of your exes, and generally hit it off really well, and you are getting excited about, “did I just get lucky coming out tonight, and perhaps met the guy I’ve been waiting for?”. Then his phone rings……………………”Uh oh, sorry hun, but its been fun getting to know you…………….its my girlfriend and she wants me to come over to help her move her TV set”. “Have a great life”.

    …………………….would you feel “led on”? Would you feel like, “What is that motherfucker doing here at a singles bar when he has someone, I just wasted forty-five minutes of my time jabbering with him, kinda getting my hopes up, when I might have met the two other guys who Ive caught checking me out, but are talking with other girls now.

    Im kinda inclined ladies, to think you’d be thinking things along those lines.

    Personal comment: People in steady relationships should not be clubbing alone without their signifigant other. Married people, doubly so. You are putting yourself in “temptation” to cheat, and blow up your own relationship. If a gal or guy goes out “with friends”, they should announce that Im here with “my friends” because they didn’t want to go alone, but I have a boyfriend/girlfriend very early in the conversation, so nobody wastes their time. Time is life folks. Its the only thing in life you cant get back. Wasting time is wasting life. In fact, I think certain people who are “taken” probably like to go out just so they can be cold and cut the opposite sex to pieces just because they are mad at some ex from their own past.

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  83. on March 23, 2009 at 7:48 pm Anonymous

    Roissy’s first clue should have been that the other two girls either had a boyfriend there, or were waiting for the boyfriend to show up. Did he think his target was the “odd man out” on what was obviously couples night?

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  84. on March 23, 2009 at 8:06 pm joel

    Do people only go to clubs to meet others for one night stands? That seems to be the assumption here. Maybe people go to clubs to drink and meet people and talk and socialize, not necessarily to have sex that night or at anytime in the foreseeable future. Not everybody likes or expects to screw like bunnies.

    If Roissy goes to clubs just to pick up girls, I can see why the BF gambit is annoying, but, pleez, Roissy, that girl owed you nothing. She obviously was enjoying your Game . After all, you work hard to make it good. All girls will enjoy it, not just the ones who are interested in sex with you. I suspect men enjoy your company, too. That’s call socializing. It it not evil.

    Or, is this a female version of pump and dump?

    I agree with the posters who said your behavior was pure beta. You should have continued the conversation a bit longer, perhaps hung around and met the boyfriend (who might be a great person just to get to know as a friend or acquaintance), and then exited with grace. They used to call that class.

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  85. on March 23, 2009 at 8:59 pm Willard Libby

    Max from Australia – My first intro line is often a playfull

    “so whats happened to your poor long suffering husband”

    This gets out lots of info and can be used in many teasing ways.

    Or – “So, does your boyfriend know you are out on the town without him?”

    “So, does your boyfriend know you are talking with a handsome stranger?”

    “Now why would your boyfriend let a cute girl like you flirt with strangers?”

    “Now why would your boyfriend let a cute girl like you get out of his sight?”

    Etc, etc.

    Your welcome.

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  86. on March 23, 2009 at 9:28 pm metalhaze

    “The need for male attention is an addiction that never really goes away”

    so true it aint funny !

    a lot of women want men to WISH they could sleep with her.

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  87. on March 23, 2009 at 9:42 pm Thursday

    I haven’t found the “I have a boyfriend” thing to be much of a problem in dance clubs. Girls who go there tend to be single or into shorter term relationships. Of course, this means that clubs are not places you go looking for a girl for a long term relationship.

    Bars on, the other hand, tend to be somewhat different. Married girls or girls with boyfriends will go out to a bar with a group of friends just to hang out. Even though they aren’t really there for guys, a lot of them will be qiote happy to be hit on.

    BTW, maybe Agnostic can comment on something I have noticed. Seems to me the younger a girl at a dance club is the more likely she is to be normal. Going out dancing together seems to be a pretty normal rite of passage for young girls. Girls who are older than, say, 23, though, and still going to dance clubs tend, in my experience, to give off a serious whiff of skankitude.

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  88. on March 23, 2009 at 9:44 pm Thursday

    Has anyone tried using these married or boyfriended girls as pivots. Maybe get them to introduce you to other girls in the venue.

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  89. on March 23, 2009 at 10:11 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    I liked the fact that Roissy shared some vulnerability with this post. I’m sure all of us have dealt with variations of this one time or another.

    I started writing mine, but it’s actually too embarrassing. The lesson here, though, is always ask if there is a b/f in the picture.

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  90. on March 23, 2009 at 10:13 pm R. Mutt

    Wow…women like that need to contract a new strain of aids and die already. They are wasting time, space and energy.

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  91. on March 23, 2009 at 10:51 pm Brad

    @felsted:
    “it doesnt bother me as much when a woman talks to me, then tells me after a long convo that she has a boyfriend.

    the only time it bothers me is if she tells me about the boyfriend TWO DAYS LATER…AFTER I GOT HER PHONE NUMBER…AND WHILE WE’RE TALKING ON THE PHONE. or even worse:L AFTER YOU GO ON WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE DATE…the conversation goes ridiculously well…youre already wondering if you have any condoms in your wallet…then at the end of the night you lean in for the kiss only to have her naively say: “…UHHH, I THOUGHT WE WERE JUST FRIENDS?”

    guys, has this ever happened to you? when she drops the “boyfriend” bomb after youre already a week into it, rather than on the night you met her?”

    YES…. But instead, the bitch who hadn’t had a wedding ring on the night I met her AND NOT ON THE DATE EITHER dropped the MARRIAGE BOMB on me. Oh yeah, “I’m MARRIED!!”

    What married chick meets guys at a bar and then sets up a coffee date with them?? Bitches be crazy

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  92. on March 23, 2009 at 11:02 pm Kthulah

    Thursday, sometimes an old lady just wants to dance, and tends to have younger friends because her older ones want to sit at home and knit or something.

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  93. on March 23, 2009 at 11:55 pm ian in hamburg

    First comments says it all.

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  94. on March 24, 2009 at 12:03 am spandrell

    the problem is never that she has a bf,
    The question is whether he is coming tonight.

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  95. on March 24, 2009 at 12:49 am DestroyToCreate

    @Thursday

    “Even worse than girls with boyfriends though are attention starved married girls. They will hide their rings behind their back, or slip it into their purse.”

    While I had always heard about the “disappearing ring”, it never happened to me personally until this weekend…..truly eye-opening.

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  96. on March 24, 2009 at 1:40 am Sara I

    Sorry to bore anyone here who’s heard this already, but I had the wonderful experience of being hit on by a PUA, gave him my number, and when he called a few days later and tried to seduce me into meeting him at the local hot springs, my gut feeling told me something was up and…..and……and….get this guys…HE HAD A GIRLFRIEND ALREADY. I asked and he owned up to it. Shocking as hell and I hope it doesn’t ruin your night to even imagine such a thing!

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  97. on March 24, 2009 at 2:02 am Gunslingergregi

    So then what did you do?

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  98. on March 24, 2009 at 3:36 am Jack

    Here is the deal I find – almost ALL young, attractive women in their 20’s seem to have a “boyfriend”. Maybe she’s cheating, maybe she’s about to break up with him, or maybe she’s in love with him. But they ALL have a “boyfriend”. So the question is – when she tells you she has a boyfriend, how does Game tell you to respond to increase the attraction level?

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  99. on March 24, 2009 at 3:44 am Tood

    “ALL have a “boyfriend”. So the question is – when she tells you she has a boyfriend, how does Game tell you to respond to increase the attraction level?”

    If you don’t know even this much, then you are not even a novice in Game.

    Go read up on ‘Boyfriend Destroyers’. Also, consider the possibility that some women *gasp* might lie about having a boyfriend just to get Betas to go away. What she is really trying to do is screen for Alphas who are not deterred by this test.

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  100. on March 24, 2009 at 4:04 am John C

    Assume all hot chicks have a boyfriend plus some in the on-deck circle. Even if they are totally single, it’s not something they want to admit.

    Doug Jones:
    Hilarious link, and totally appropriate. I had tears in my eyes on the last one with the dogs.

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  101. on March 24, 2009 at 6:19 am mp.

    Maybe she just liked talking to you? I talk to everyone/anyone in bars, if they’re interesting. Talking to people is good. Then again, I’ve never been to America. Possibly it’s different?

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  102. on March 24, 2009 at 6:29 am abe

    Something just occurred to me. As someone with an online reputation to maintain, Roissy is never likely to report his complete and utter failures with women–those embarrassing situations in which he’s simply rejected with contempt. How telling that he’s unwilling to face the possibility that she dropped the line about the boyfriend because she wasn’t eager to proceed with his plan. Dude, you were rejected. Face it.

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  103. on March 24, 2009 at 6:36 am Da_Truth_Hurts

    Some bitches are crazy. /shrug

    Just walk away. Or plow.

    Least you have the stones to post personal details about yourself online.

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  104. on March 24, 2009 at 6:40 am Da_Truth_Hurts

    Even if those details are detailing a failure.

    I would of kicked her in the cooch.

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  105. on March 24, 2009 at 7:00 am z.g.

    abe

    Something just occurred to me. As someone with an online reputation to maintain, Roissy is never likely to report his complete and utter failures with women–those embarrassing situations in which he’s simply rejected with contempt. How telling that he’s unwilling to face the possibility that she dropped the line about the boyfriend because she wasn’t eager to proceed with his plan. Dude, you were rejected. Face it.

    Another clueless dingbat.

    It was not the rejection, it was the dishonesty of the woman, a woman who belong to the family “women”, who claim to hold honesty as the uppermost standard.

    And also, Roissy does not need to hide any rejection because anybody in game knows that to rack up the dates that roissy has, you usually face more rejections than the dates you get.

    Say, if a dude says he fucks two girls a week and never gets rejected, (barring he is a top 1%er, local rock hero, or 20 incher), I know he is full of shit.

    If he says, he fucks two girls per week but damn, girls are nasty when giving out rejection, and he was already shot down twice on friday, I know he is genuine.

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  106. on March 24, 2009 at 7:15 am Bhetti

    z: Yeah, but even worse scenarios have happened to roissy (if I recall correctly: didn’t someone he sleep with drop a marriage bomb?). By now, you’d think he’d have just shrugged it off.

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  107. on March 24, 2009 at 8:57 am abe

    [i]Another clueless dingbat.

    It was not the rejection, it was the dishonesty of the woman, a woman who belong to the family “women”, who claim to hold honesty as the uppermost standard. [/i]

    And it’s true that women frequently resort to the “I have a boyfriend” line as a way to gracefully tell a guy “no.” It likely that as she continued to converse with Roissy she became turned off by him and gently tried to tell him she wasn’t interested. He couldn’t handle it and now is pretending she was “using him” that whole time rather than assessing him. He can’t handle the truth and so much rather comfort himself with pretty lies.

    For shame, Roissy.

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  108. on March 24, 2009 at 8:57 am abe

    How does one do italics on here?

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  109. on March 24, 2009 at 9:00 am abe

    “And also, Roissy does not need to hide any rejection because anybody in game knows that to rack up the dates that roissy has, you usually face more rejections than the dates you get.”

    If Roissy relates any rejection he receives it’s usually along the lines of “I was rejected” without any of the embarrassing details. He does not relate those instances in which he was nothing to a girl with far superior social standing than he.

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  110. on March 24, 2009 at 9:04 am abe

    “Least you have the stones to post personal details about yourself online.”

    Those ‘details’ are about rationalization, not truth. He’s trying to convince himself that it was the girl who “lied” rather than himself who failed to hold her interest. She was was clearly interested in him initially but then changed her mind as she heard him talk more. She diplomatically tried to let him down, and he can’t accept it.

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  111. on March 24, 2009 at 9:07 am abe

    “I liked the fact that Roissy shared some vulnerability with this post. I’m sure all of us have dealt with variations of this one time or another.”

    What vulnerability? He didn’t say “I was rejected and it bothered me.” He’s saying “this girl lied by taking my time and then saying she had a boyfriend.” He refuses to acknowledge the possibility that he was simply rejected. That’s not showing vulnerability. That’s showing the same capacity for self-delusion which he frequently affects to denounce.

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  112. on March 24, 2009 at 9:29 am Mack

    Roissy is a total drama queen to whine about 30min of time. At least he didn’t hit the girl.

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  113. on March 24, 2009 at 10:10 am lurker

    Women will often use the bf lie when they’re just not feeling connected, or just wanted to flirt but want somy magic talisman to let them not slut it up that night. It’s a lie, and any woman who goes out to a bar without her bf and allows herself to get hit on and does not say (in the first 2 lines) “I have a bf” is going to cheat on them anyway.

    Any slut that desperate for attention is easier pickens. I would move in on her for a one night stand at that moment: “Well, he’s not hear right now, is he?” “What he doesn’t know won’t hurt him.” “What? He let you go out alone without him? Moron like that doesn’t deserve you.” etc.

    She’s begging you to seduce her for one night. Take her out.

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  114. on March 24, 2009 at 10:25 am schoolboy

    Social Dynamics are changing…and fast – Mystery

    Dammit.

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  115. on March 24, 2009 at 10:59 am Eluding ‘I Have A Boyfriend’ « Roissy in DC

    […] out here tonight?” and see if she bites. Upside: Saves lots of time avoiding users like the girl in yesterday’s post. Downside: Reminds her of the boyfriend if she really has […]

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  116. on March 24, 2009 at 10:59 am abe

    “Women will often use the bf lie when they’re just not feeling connected, or just wanted to flirt but want somy magic talisman to let them not slut it up that night. It’s a lie, and any woman who goes out to a bar without her bf and allows herself to get hit on and does not say (in the first 2 lines) “I have a bf” is going to cheat on them anyway.”

    Why is everyone dancing around the simple possibility that she rejected Roissy? Sure, it’s possible that she simply tooled him just like he tools many girls, but it’s just as likely that she came to regard him as not being worthy of her vagina.

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  117. on March 24, 2009 at 11:31 am roissy

    Social Dynamics are changing…and fast – Mystery

    schoolboy, where did you read this? is it recent? more info, plz.

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  118. on March 24, 2009 at 11:44 am roissy

    It likely that as she continued to converse with Roissy she became turned off by him and gently tried to tell him she wasn’t interested.

    some of you (abe) are really looking foolish the more you flap your gums. later in the night, i saw the girl in this post with her boyfriend. he was stroking her hair.

    As someone with an online reputation to maintain, Roissy is never likely to report his complete and utter failures with women

    you seem confused, abe. i write more often about the pickups that went bad because it’s more interesting for the reader, it’s more educational, and most importantly, it’s more fun for me to write.
    if anything, the reader is getting a skewed perception of my success in the opposite direction of what you assume they’re getting.

    bhetti:
    You know what’s funny? Regardless of their beta-loving or alpha-loving status, people (with exceptions) ripped into you for showing a hint of vulnerability or weakness, instead of encouraging the vestige of humanity (and humanity is oh so hypocritical) it showed. The standards are uniform, whether people know it or not.

    precisely, bhetti.
    precisely.

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  119. on March 24, 2009 at 11:53 am Anon2

    This is ridiculous – do you know how lame screaming “I’m taken” at the sight of approaching men will look? That’s totally a my first boyfriend move, along with dropping his name every other minute. My friends would shoot me first.

    I don’t think guys in real life are as disturbed by this as guys on this blog are pretending to be. And I can never again go out dancing with my girlfriends because I’m married? Please.

    Also, I agree with some of the other posters. If you come off cool, you’ll come off cool in front of my single friends.

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  120. on March 24, 2009 at 12:03 pm Seeking Alpha

    Anon2

    If a guy comes up to you in a bar, is there anything he wants other than sex? If you know that’s what he wants, why would you have a conversation with him?

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  121. on March 24, 2009 at 1:01 pm Anon2

    Sure – maybe his friends are talking to my friends, maybe he just wants to chat (okay, maybe that one is naïve). Still, I can’t believe that most men walk away angry and self righteous about “wasting their time” after having a nice conversation.

    After reading the follow up post, I think suggesting going to another area is a great idea. I would never follow some guy across the bar – I’m here having fun with my friends and have no interest in being a whore. But the whole idea that I should stop going out with friends or preface any conversation with “I’m married!!!!!” just seems so unrealistic.

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  122. on March 24, 2009 at 1:05 pm Seeking Alpha

    Well to be fair, I don’t think anyone suggested you don’t go out, or that you have to preface your conversation by exclaiming your commitment.

    The keeping-him-occupied-while-his-friends-talk-to-your-friends reason is plausible, although presumably you wouldn’t be flirting like the girl above – touching arms, winking, and using lines like ‘that’s what I want him to think’, right?

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  123. on March 24, 2009 at 1:16 pm Sara I

    Gunslinger

    So then what did you do?

    Are you asking me? If so, we continued to be friends for a number of months and I was able to avoid his seduction attempts and get inside the life of a PUA with all the messy details and drama it entails. He even brought a few of his dick addicts over to meet me. I admit he was charming as hell. He loved to call me on the phone, pretend he was somewhere else and show up at my door. He’d ring the bell, my daughter would let him in and he’d waltz into my bedroom while I was talking on the phone to him. He’d share his favorite sites with me (camel toes was one of them.) let me see the phone pics of women flashing their breasts at him WHILE he was talking on the phone. He had many stalkers, some would make great attempts to get into his apartment in the middle of the night. He was quite “proud” of himself. I presented an insurmountable challenge having discovered the lie that he is; so he made me a friend instead, but after awhile I just lost interest and vice versa.

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  124. on March 24, 2009 at 1:46 pm Default User

    Sara I

    It’s unfortunately a little intimidating for men to be with such a strong woman. They love the sex but most run away at the first sign of conflict. I respect men who stand up to me, but haven’t found one yet. Damn!

    The problem is that men can get all the competition, and aggression from their male friends. Competition, aggression, and status battles will often be part of his workday.

    When a man returns to his woman, he wants to be able to lay down his weapons and settle into her softness. A lot of a man’s life is lived in some degree of conflict, when even his girl is giving him trouble it can be too much.

    The feisty woman’s problem is the opposite if the beta male’s. The beta male is to “nice” in a market that is looking for “tough.” She is too “tough” in a market that is looking for “nice.”

    So, you will probably have to learn vulnerability game (I think roissy had a post on this). 🙂

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  125. on March 24, 2009 at 5:12 pm Firepower

    Default User

    “The problem is that men can get all the competition, and aggression from their male friends.”

    bingo. All that fucking “Cheers” malarkey and “Sex & The City” bs sexual tension gets tiresome.

    If I gotta suffer thru that, like I did in 11th grade, I want to fuck the same 17 year olds in Wet Seal hotpants that pulled it back then.

    How bout cuttin’ the rebop, bitches.

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  126. on March 24, 2009 at 7:09 pm Default User

    Firepower

    … and “Sex & The City” bs sexual tension gets tiresome…

    One of the characters in that show was a lawyer. She was a caricature of the DC lawyer type that Roissy dislikes. She was not about sexual tension, just tension.

    Whenever I hear “strong woman” that is who I think of.

    On that topic (Sex in the City), I have a question for the female readers.

    What did you think of the Mr. Big character? To my male brain he looked like a boring lump. A handsome lump maybe, but kind of flat and uninteresting.

    I did not see very many of the shows, but the male characters in the episodes I saw seemed more interesting than Mr. Big.
    [I am presuming that Mr. Big was meant to be the epitome of alphocity.]

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  127. on March 24, 2009 at 7:33 pm Keith

    “You know what’s funny? Regardless of their beta-loving or alpha-loving status, people (with exceptions) ripped into you for showing a hint of vulnerability or weakness”

    So who were these exceptions?

    Are those exceptions superior people?

    Correct answers: Keith and Yes.

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  128. on March 24, 2009 at 10:35 pm Keith

    “Regardless of their beta-loving or alpha-loving status, people (with exceptions) ripped into you for showing a hint of vulnerability or weakness,”

    Actually, as I scan comments, the ripping has more to do with his silly and petulant overreaction than the fact that she had a boyfriend or said so to make him go away. I wanted to go easy on our boy Roissy on this go ’round, since he did share some vulnerability.

    But “emotional rape?” Jeez, take a Midol.

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  129. on March 25, 2009 at 12:31 am maurice

    Was I there for this? I seem to recall such a group up against the side patio wall of a certain well-known DC establishment the other evening. At prime-time/witching hour, no less. And such an interaction. if so, and I didn’t hear everything, I believe it went down more-or-less as described, and said blonde was definitely giving off clear and consistent IOIs to our protagonist. Who later reported the BF info. btw, for what it’s worth, there was another really stunning blonde (9+) over by the bar who clearly had a BF and who was also in a clump of females. To do it over again in total hindsight, and for such an outcome, I’d rather have chatted up the 9. but the place was so packed we were kind of constrained. makes me wonder about the role physical layout/constraints play in game. Would have been nice to prowl around and open various sets, but hard to do if unable to physically place yourself for a normal conversation.

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  130. on March 25, 2009 at 3:51 am Kthulah

    Keith, a woman who hangs with fashionable Gay men is pointedly aware of her SMV. You know you’re either hot or have compensating factors when after they get to know you, they start hinting at wanting to have your baby, or they’re overly protective (because they would *so* do you if they were straight).

    After awhile, she’s also been schooled either consciously or unconsciously, in what men like. Think about it: they’re actually welcome among men who don’t even need women for sex.

    Now, on the flipside, you have a fairly successful PUA who is…a bit unaware that the emotional consequences of too many heartbreaks and disappointments are as hard on men as they are on women. Like women, it’s not necessarily the numbers that makes someone “tainted”. It’s the experiences and context.

    With as many women as he’s likely slept with, it would not be surprising to me at all if he had some romantic hopes with at least one or two of them, that were dashed not just by differences, but by deception.

    To the mind, a violation is a violation. Manipulating someone romantically *feels* about the same as being coerced. Someone you trusted and *thought* you knew, has misused your sexuality. They took something they did not deserve, and therefore did not belong to them.

    So though it’s extreme, I can understand why he’d use “emotional rape” to describe how it felt to be manipulated in this case. Once a related trauma has happened enough times, there is a kind of panic reaction when something lesser but similar happens.

    He probably needs to take a break, or seek out a different type of women. I don’t know because I’m not inside his head, and am just going based on what he wrote.

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  131. on March 25, 2009 at 11:34 am lurker

    Default, as a non-femal,e I can answer the Mr. Big thing:

    He was a dick with a lot of money, power, and cockiness.

    He wouldn’t marry horse face (setting up her desire).

    He married a model 20 years younger (proving his worth)

    He slept with horse face while she was engaged (classic alpha move)

    He moved away from her (she couldn’t have him)

    He was violent in front of her (tried to beat people up).

    In one show, he made his chauffeur ( a burly P.R. guy) get out of his car and stand in the freezing cold while he chatted with horse face (mega alpha-dick-power move).

    Big was a dick, which is exactly what the SWPLer women on the show and watching it want. Witness, in contrast, Aidan: he acted like the perfect-modern gentlemen women say they want, and still fans and the girls in the show wanted Big over him (and cheated on Aidan with Big).

    Roissy has quoted it, but bears repeating: nothing is more disillusioning about women than success with them.

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  132. on March 25, 2009 at 2:36 pm Sara I

    Default User

    The feisty woman’s problem is the opposite if the beta male’s. The beta male is to “nice” in a market that is looking for “tough.” She is too “tough” in a market that is looking for “nice.”

    So, you will probably have to learn vulnerability game (I think roissy had a post on this).

    You are really too cute. I’m serious! LOL My, my, what do I say? Since every case is unique, just let me say that in my particular case, the man in question had enjoyed three to four months of great sex, open arms on every level, my company at parties with HIS friends, my company at events of HIS choosing, my providing a wonderful birthday celebration for him (my daughter even made dinner for us and bought him a gift).

    We had just returned from a weekend trip together and the following weekend were scheduled to attend a birthday party for MY daughter complete with an all ages potluck, music, dancing, dj. etc. These were people he knew and some he got on with VERY well only he hadn’t seen them in a long time. He cancelled on me a few days before saying he didn’t FEEL like going. And it was the way he said it. Like an asshole basically, so I told him to go to hell and I’m not sorry….NOW. At the time I apologized to him in a phone message and email that he NEVER returned.

    If a woman can NEVER express anger in a relationship because the man only has the balls to handle conflict at work, then the relationship is phony, dead, and without fire and passion. The anger will be expressed passive aggressively because it MUST be expressed and the relationship will DIE and hopefully be buried soon afterwards, but we know how these things can drag on. With me, nothing drags on. With me he had passion & energy and a real woman. And yes, I have a temper, but I get over it quickly too and wanted to work it out with him.

    He instead slipped it to another woman as quickly as humanly possible and is now in a world of shit with the “passive” woman of his dreams. Getting to the other side of conflict and NOT running away from it can create real intimacy but we never got that far. He was a coward, plain and simple. It had nothing to do with him being a man; alpha or beta.

    In the average range:

    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeSix.asp

    And me being what I am, an eight, it was bound to happen. I scared him because his mother was verbally and physically abusive. Though I am an “aggressive” personality type, I’m happy to say I have never hit another human being in my life, save the girl next door who started it when I was 10 years old. My bark is worse than my bite and my kisses are the best.

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  133. on March 25, 2009 at 4:08 pm Default User

    Sara I

    My post was mostly humorous. It was certainly not meant to mock you (gentle fun maybe).

    The case you describe is different from the one I have.

    I have no problem with anger or disappointment at my misdeeds. While a man should never apologize for who he is (so called “beta supplication”), he will often need to apologize for what he has done (if he hurt the other person). A man should know the difference. So a woman should be able to express anger and the man should be able to deal with it (even after a hard day fighting spreadsheets).

    What I was thinking about were status/dominance fights. The kind where she wants to be the man, but still wants me to be the man. This leads to a kind of alpha cage match (first one to crack is a sissy – or even worse, beta). I cannot really explain it better than that. That is what I tend to think of when I hear “strong” or “feisty” as an adjective for a woman.

    I am a fairly low maintenance and easygoing type. I can defend myself when needed, but do not get the joy from status fights that others may. After a while it just becomes tiring (literally). However, if I have been a bad boy, I can take my licks. I can dish it out too, if needed.

    I guess that until I alpha up I should stop chasing alpha chicks. Perhaps they detected my underlying nerdiness and wanted me to really prove myself (again and again) or fail so they could move on knowing their job was complete. 🙂

    My Enneagram type is 5 with a 4 wing. A mixture of abstract schemer (5) and abstract dreamer (4), a science professor with heart, a poet trapped in a geeks body, the kind of guy that actually writes stuff like this on the Internet.

    In Myers-Briggs terms (which I know better then the Enneagram) I am an INxP. The x means that I am not clearly one of a Thinker or Feeler. This seems to nicely coincide with the 5/4 descriptions.

    Maybe I am chasing the wrong kind of woman. Perhaps number closing should mean getting her Enneagram type. 🙂

    Though I am an “aggressive” personality type, I’m happy to say I have never hit another human being in my life, save the girl next door who started it when I was 10 years old.

    Maybe you should have gone Chris Brown on Mr Six. A good pounding and he would have come crawling back. Beat down game is not just for guys. 😉

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  134. on March 25, 2009 at 4:21 pm Default User

    Sara I

    I should point out that I probably present better than my type would imply. I dress fairly well and can attend (to some degree at least) social niceties.

    I have been told that I am “charming” and “funny.” So I do not suffer the worst excesses of “freeky-geekiness” that might be expected for type four or fives.

    According to the “depth level,” I am probably between 3 and 4 (closer to 4 most likely).

    So there is a piece of my soft underbelly.

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  135. on March 25, 2009 at 5:04 pm Default User

    Sara I

    I have too much time on my hands…

    Looking at the Enneagram page, it seems that if I am good I become you (5 moves to 8) but if you are bad you become me (8 moves to 5).

    You have been warned.

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  136. on March 25, 2009 at 5:34 pm Bhetti

    Keith: Daym, you’re a modest man. 😉

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  137. on March 28, 2009 at 7:38 pm Anonymous

    You deserved it.

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  138. on March 30, 2009 at 2:04 pm Nina M.

    “Roissy” (lol! — ah, to be 14 again and think that that’s “edgy”) offended that someone is manipulative?

    “emotional rape” ?

    Good god, it took me five minutes to figure out you’re are a loser. “Tool Academy” stole your game.

    See ya. Hate to be ya.

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  139. on October 16, 2009 at 3:23 pm Nutz

    I’ll be damned. I’ve been getting the same exact thing with unavailable girls hooking me in. I couldn’t figure it out, but I think Roissy nailed it: Validation seeking and nothing more. For some reason I guess they don’t think of me as a threat so they’re comfortable with my gaming them. As soon as I turn it up a notch I get that same awkward/sheepish look that they are about to disappoint me, or perhaps they feel as though they just got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

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