A few years ago I briefly toyed with the idea of getting a second job on the side for some quick and easy supplemental bling. Acting on a tip from a friend, I walked into the office of a mortgage broker in northern Virginia to begin my second life as an intermediary taking advantage of information bottlenecks and client ignorance.
The president mob boss of the small company was a short Vietnamese man with manic energy, a giant gold watch, and a quick tongue. I mentioned my referral and, after sizing me up, he told me there would be an all-hands meeting in a half hour and I was invited to sit in and see if this business appealed to me.
I scanned the office. Lots of empy cubicles with flickering monitors full of excel spreadsheets being operated by invisible employees. Along the wall were closed door offices with nameplates designating various positions – VP this, VP that, CFO (!), Executive manager. Really? I popped my head into one office and another South Asian greeted me. We bantered a bit then he showed me his trophies and certificates for excellence in mortgage brokering. A huge photo of him sitting in his Ferrari hung prominently behind his desk. He noticed me checking it out and said it took him only three years to build his client list to reach the point he could buy that beauty — all it required was a solid work ethic. He was wearing a Rolex.
Just prior to the meeting a tall white guy with a frat boy striped shirt approached me and stuck out his hand. I asked him what he thought of the business. He told me what it was like getting loans for marginal clients and how to deal with Countrywide. He said he was 27 years old and was planning on making 2 million for himself by the time he hit 30. Business was so good he had no doubt his goal would be reached. He talked of a luxurious retirement by age 40.
We all sat down in a semi-circle in a large conference room. The only white guys were me and Mr. Early Retirement. There were four women, three East Asians and one white chick who looked Italian by background. The rest of the group was a polyglot of East Asian, Vietnamese or Thai, Hispanic and indeterminate ethnicity men. The two Vietnamese/Thai guys wore the sharpest suits of the bunch. Crisp like new dollar bills.
The high energy Vietnamese don entered and began a free form discussion of life in the commission based mortgage broker business. Acronyms and jargon were flying — MTAs, COFI loans, COSI arms, A-paper, Alt-A, subprime (this was before the housing bubble burst, so the word subprime didn’t trigger instant suspicion at the time), DUs, Full Doc, SIVA, SISA, No Ratio (later learned this meant no stated income), No Doc, PITI, origination fee (fancy word for screwing the client with a skim off the top), PMI, DTI, NVAR, and on and on.
Then the Vietdon looked carefully around the room, eyeballing each one of us.
“This is good, very good.” He was smiling and nodding his head. “The way it works here is simple. Trust. You earn the client’s trust and your business takes off. They trust you, they sign on the dotted line. So, for instance…” He pointed at the Asian women. “These ladies are assigned to female clients. Asian women in particular. They will trust them.”
The Asian girls snickered and one uncrossed and crossed her legs. I watched her crotch as she did this.
The Vietdon continued. “And my boys over there…” The Hispanic guys laughed. “They get the Hispanic clients. This is the way it works in this business. Now let’s be real. Most of our Hispanic clients aren’t high rollers. They’re struggling, making ends meet. They got families. They need houses to put those families in. They work hard. To get them to sign on the dotted line…” (He loved that expression.) “…you’ve got to put their minds at ease that you’re looking out for them. They trust someone who looks like them, you know?”
More nods of agreement from the Jose contingent.
“Then we’ve got our white guys.” At saying this, the Vietdon smiled broadly. “You guys, you go out in the field with a casual button down, one button at the top undone, nice shoes, real tall all-American look, and people with money trust you. I get some white clients… not too many because, you know, we mostly deal with the underserviced community…” (The group chuckled.) “…and these white clients feel comfortable dealing with a white agent. It is what it is, right? No morality tales here, we just do what brings in the business. I think we can all agree on that.” Heads nodded in unison. “It’s a little different for our Asian clients. They want to see their agents dressed in shiny pressed suits at all times. Isn’t that right, Phung!” Laughter from everyone.
“This is a good time to be in the brokerage business. The money is there. Work hard, make your calls, show up at the houses for that extra attention people love, and you can see a nice little profit for yourself.” With that, the Vietdon ended the meeting.
I showed up at the office for three more weeks, then decided it reminded me too much of cold calling old people over dinner to sell investment advice. Something about the whole operation felt sleezy, like an Amway scheme. I didn’t think the odds of me scoring easy money on the side were that great, at least not with this firm, so I abandoned the mission.
Two years later, the housing bubble burst spectacularly. Today, I wonder why all those really smart guys back then propping up the mortgage brokerage business on phantom assumptions couldn’t see the sleeziness in what they were doing like I could after only a half hour inside the business. Or maybe they did and didn’t care. And I wonder if Mr. Early Retirement achieved his goal.
Despite the unsavory nature of the brokerage business, I have respect for the Vietdon. He knew the score and didn’t shy away from it. He told it like it is. He probably violated every anti-discrimination law on the books, but he made money while the making was good.

The Vietdon must have had game, too.
And probably banged several of his female employees.
LikeLike
Have you checked to see if they’re still in business? People are still taking out mortgages today, plenty of them, and if this company avoided getting snared in anything illegal it might be thriving.
Peter
LikeLike
And boy, was the going good. I have a friend who made a few mil in about 5 years in his mid twenties, invested in property, and is now pretty much work free in his late twenties.
I could have joined him at the time, and I curse myself that I didn’t.
LikeLike
did this guy at all remind you of an asian ben affleck from “boiler room”?
overall, i have very little sympathy for those who bought what these guys were selling. i was young, poor, and stupid when i bought my house a few years ago, but i didn’t think twice about picking up an ARM or anything that had the potential to blow up in my face.
LikeLike
The entire thing was an Amway-type scam. I can never bring myself to get involved in that kind of stuff.
The guys who did make a killing at it are, IMO, parasites. But the Vietnamese guy is right: “No morality tales here.”
Sleaze is easily missed when you’ve got your eyes locked on the bling.
LikeLike
This would probably be a good time to view, or view again, David Mamet’s “Glengarry, Glen Ross.” When Mamet was a student, he worked at real estate office like this in Chicago. People have been running scams like this since we crawled out of the caves.
Mamet has said that he really enjoyed his time there. Hanging out with sleazeballs can be invigorating.
LikeLike
On the straight Boiler Room tip…. Nice
Listen either you slang crack rock or you’ve got a wicked jump shot
LikeLike
Roissy, that qoute from mystery.
“social dynamics are changing..fast”
Its from a video seminar he did on youtube. I’ll try to find it.
Be on the lookout.
LikeLike
I simply cannot figure out why more Americans dont see what I see as our biggest weakness competitively as a nation:
Our houses cost way way too much.
I was born in a 2 bedroom house that cost $6,000. We had a home with 2 more bedrooms that we bought when I was 5 for $18,500.
We bought a home that was close to 2,000 sq. feet on almost one and a half acre when I was 8 for $55,000.
This was a very nice home, all brick, paved driveway, quite pretty, very nice subdivision full of large houses (ours was one of the smallest there).
That same house today would cost roughly 210 to 220 easily.
Why? We have better lumber harvesting techniques (machinery like trucks that drive into forrests and cut down trees), better lumber-refining machinery, better brick and cinder-block technology, better transportation, larger trucks, more-lanes on highways, larger concrete trucks, etc. I realize land is a bit more expensive now, but not enough to have made that house quadruple in value in 30 years.
Our home values being outrageously high is why we need to get paid so much money relative to other countries. If a home like that third one could still be bought for $110,000, people wouldn’t be clamoring for raises all the time, because making $30K a year would be just fine…………….you could have a quite nice life on “decent” money. We dont however, and people need larger incomes to afford “decent” houses in decent neighborhoods, hence why the United States struggles to stay competititve.
I have friends in the mortgage business. I was once engaged to a woman who was a loan officer (whom know that I really know her, I wouldn’t trust if she told me it was raining outside because she was one of the most utterly dishonest human beings Ive ever met in my life, even if she was kind of a Blonde-headed, blue-eyed Jennifer Lopez with a nicer rack, but thats a different story). Everybody in the transaction of a home sale has an incentive to make that house cost as much as possible. The developer wants every dime he can get, the builder wants every dime he can get, the bank the builder has the loan with wants every dime they can get from the builder, the mortgage company wants the loan to be as for as much as possible because they will earn more in interest over the life of the loan that way, the loan officer working on points wants the loan to be as expensive as possible beacuse he gets paid more that way, the real estate agent who gets 6% wants the house to sell for as high as possible beacause she gets more that way……………………………………………………………………………………..and then there is the first-time home buyer, who doesn’t know jack, hoping to get a fair deal. He gets screwed by a bunch of people who have done “this” many times before.
Its like the rest of you coming to get your car fixed at an auto-shop. Most of you dont know jack shit about how a car really works, so the guy under the hood can tell you all sorts of things are wrong and do about 2 “extra” repairs and charge you an extra $200 bucks if he really wants to be an asshole about it. Chances are you’ll just nod your head sadly and pay it because you dont know what that exotic car part he is pointing to is, or why its going bad, etc.
People instinctively think that there is less of a chance that someone of their own race will screw them over, but certain businesses draw people that don’t mind fucking other people over for money. Ive worked with a former used-car salesman before, and will never forget what Michael told me when I asked him about that business, “Its not a bad gig at all if you dont mind lying to people and getting them to pay way too much”. Michael was a pretty good guy, and I could tell he actually kept looking for other things to do because ripping people off bothered him deeply.
A home is the biggest purchase 98% of us ever make (well, those of us who are not going to divorce court anyway), and almost all of us have to borrow money to do it, therefore the money isn’t leaving your pocket that day, you are just signing for it and will pay it over your lifetime. Young people are especially liable to get screwed when doing this because they think they are going to live forever anyway, and will agree into paying way too much as long as the monthly note can be “gotten down” to where its roughly 35% of what they make, etc. Nevermind they are putting a starter home on 30 fucking years, that their parents would have paid off in 10 back in the day. Irony of ironies, the guys who actually did “hard” work in building the house, get paid less than anyone else in the transaction.
LikeLike
Goddamn. I experienced the same thing a few years ago. I’m out interviewing in my $800 blue wool suit and I get plopped into a room with 5 fratboy jock dago types wearing $2000 green, shiny, sharkskin double-breasted pimpsuits.
One of my favorite stories. When “Boiler Room” came out I pointed to Vin Diesel for my pals and it put pictures to my experience.
I bailed. My investigatory nature compelled me to check out the office building. All the other floors were vacant down to the metal studs.
Looking back, I think we all should have scrapped noble education for that quick buck. Our government does.
LikeLike
and its all led to this:
LikeLike
Good story.
On another note, I know a ton of people who tried to do what Roissy did—make soome money ” on the side” by selling real estate as a second job.
Aside from the sleaziness, what most people don’t realize is that it is hard work and can’t be a 2nd job. You have to clean up a property, be on call 24 hour to give tours, troll for buyers, assauge sellers, and generally let one house run your life until you get rid of it. Plus you’re constantly fighting with other agents for territory and ledes—both “Glengarry Glen Ross'” and the episode of the Simpsons where Marge becomes a realestate agent make these points, in different ways.
I give a hat tip to all salesmen out there; its a hard job.
LikeLike
Roissy –
It started back in the middle nineties with a combination of the feds encouraging loser and a lot loser mortgage lending standards to increase the percentage of home ownership, mostly to benefit minorites and get them more on the American dream gravey train, which had for a long time relied heavily on home ownership for the middle classes. That an the pre-existing securitization machine on Wall Street, which meant that originators of mortgages, car loans and credit card debt could package it into securitized bonds and sell it off on the secondary market, with supposedly less risk because of the diversitification and then complicated “tranche” mechanism.
This was greatly and then enormously expanded as the subprime lending standards then quickly spread to more upscale mortgage customers. By the early and especially mid 2000s this was really accelerating and more and more flavors of lower and lower standards mortgage loans were being peddled by mortgage brokers like countrywide and their affiliates, since they quickly sold it on to Wall Street, which reassured itself and its customers with the mathematical wizardry of it’s backroom “quants” (often S.Asian Indians) translated into more tranche magic and credit default swap “backups”. By then so much money was being made by anyone not at the bottom of this pyramid and some at the bottom as well, that the getting was just too good and too fast to not try to ride the train until the very peak of the market, which yes people thought was coming. And meanwhile there were all those models and all that “hedging”.
I was in a position to know, though I didn’t participate directly.
LikeLike
> We dont however, and people need larger incomes to afford
> “decent” houses in decent neighborhoods
This is the answer to your question about why the houses cost so much. Typically, people aren’t buying a house; they’re buying safety and schools. Possibly in the opposite order.
There’s a pretty well-documented effect where rises in school standardized test scores are followed (not preceded!) by rises in house prices in those school districts. Last study I saw, it was about $500-1000 in house price per point of average SAT score difference. Want a school district where the mean SAT score is 1200 instead of 1000? Pay $100k more for the house.
LikeLike
dougjnn:
“It started back in the middle nineties with a combination of the feds encouraging loser and a lot loser mortgage lending standards to increase the percentage of home ownership, mostly to benefit minorites and get them more on the American dream gravey train, which had for a long time relied heavily on home ownership for the middle classes. ”
the CRA (I’m assuming that’s what you’re talking about) accounted for a very small portion of mortgages to minorities and the poor. this argument is strictly right-wing b.s.
i’ll grant that government touting of the “American dream”, obtained only through home ownership played a big part in the national psychology as did low interest rates stemming from Asian lending and Fed intervention. Mix that with a breakdown of rating agencies and good ol’ greed across many spectrums, and you have a financial debacle.
Don’t try to single out CRA loans as cause for this mess, because it’s just not true.
LikeLike
Chuck
First of all I agree that the subprime lending meltdown is a small part of the overall house of cards built upon too low lending standards, offloading mortgages through Wall Street to the secondary market where cheap money from Asia and Europe and elsewhere was available, and exotic backup and diversification financial instruments invented on Wall Street. However, the impetus towards lower lending standards WAS started by a whole push of the Federal Government designed primarily to increase the percentage of home ownership. That was implimented by changed policies and standards at Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae also. It took off from there.
To claim otherwise is left wing / PC defense of all things liberal and PC no matter what.
LikeLike
Vast majority of the mess has been in CA, So. Florida, and Vegas – a lot of middle/upper middle class white guys trying to make a fast buck by selling to other middle/upper class white guys. That’s pretty much the entire American economy.
For every low income Tyrone, Miguel, and Huynh that got convinced the couldn’t afford *not* to buy a 500,000 house on 30K income, there were a bunch more Chets, Lances, and Caitlins holding on to houses out in the sticks, cause deep down they know Heather and Jason don’t want to live anywhere close to Mr. Patel, Mr. Hernandez, Mr. Nguyen, and god forbid the Jenkins family.
LikeLike
I made a little video about this topic called The Collpase of America in Three Minutes.
LikeLike
Chuck,
CRA did not cause the problem, but it got the snow ball rolling. It created an up and ever bigger bubble that everyone else jumped on. It does not take a heck of a lot to cause a housing bubble and they always pop.
Grim
LikeLike
Yea its interesting with the house thing in other countries. My wife had the house paid for when I met her. No mortgage no taxes. They don’t do house loans. They save and just pay cash to have it built and it is theirs.
The house thing in the states does make money through taxes which helps make the government rich. Also an incentive for the government to want high house prices. Which could be a good thing. I guess if you pay off that 220k house you have some nice assetts. The problem is these houses really are killing the occupants. Talk about stress you buy the 220k house then you have to pay the electric bill. What value does the house really create? I guess it gives peace of mind except that seems to me most of the people I know become servents of the house not its master. Good part of there energy is spent focusing on doing things for the house. Seems like a lot of wasted value. Still think if you really want to help people fuck getting them into houses. Sell them all a connex to live in for 5k. I have been living in half of one for 4 years (no big deal). Give out 220k loans to anyone who wants to start a business. The US doesn’t need to give microloans like india they can give there people real size loans. If they could give the loans for houses which have almost no real potential value. Then they should be able to give them for business which have almost unlimited potential value. Yea ok some of the business that people will start will in fact fail. So what. Let them declare bankruptcy. Let them fail. That would create a bubble and make the us the richest country in the world by a million to one. We could all just stack other countries money in the corner to use for firewood.
LikeLike
The housing bubble was going to burst at some point, all bubbles do, what caused it to just collapse was the rising oil price shocks this past Summer. When gas went up to over $4 a gallon, people just couldn’t make payments, on much of anything, and walked away.
And yes, social dynamics are changing FAST.
Already, there’s a bunch of articles (sorry no links) on educated college grad women going into stripping to pay bills, and earn enough to pay for graduate school. Instead of taking loans. It’s also now socially acceptable to strip, ala Cody Diablo screenwriter / celebrity of “Juno.” Or various other books by women touting their various sexual exploits.
While long-term this change in social dynamics (fear of loans/debt, hard economic times) *could* favor beta providers, it’s just easily something that could tip into even MORE pursuit of Alphas through sex-work in various forms.
Certainly the economic crack-up has been preceded by normalization of stripping and other sex exploits by women, a massive cultural shift, and the crack-up economically has so far hit men far harder than women. Politically speaking, Obama and Dems have to take care of women first, since they form the basis for the electoral coalition.
If I had to place a bet, it would be on more women stripping, since it keeps them in cash and just as important, now cements them as “cool” within female circles, and even more over-pursuit of Alpha males. I see women desperate to retain absolute social/sexual freedom and not “settle” for Beta males.
[You can really see this with social acceptance of tattoos on women, which used to be taboo even twenty years ago.]
The logical outcome of this of course is female pressure for legalized prostitution. I’m not sure (and I sure hope it doesn’t) that things will get that far.
LikeLike
Anonymous Coward
“Heather and Jason don’t want to live anywhere close to Mr. Patel, Mr. Hernandez, Mr. Nguyen, and god forbid the Jenkins family.”
uh, even The Jenkins family doesn’t want to live anywhere close to The Jenkins Family.
They want to live next to Heather & Jason
huggz
Firepower
LikeLike
I was born in a 2 bedroom house that cost $6,000. We had a home with 2 more bedrooms that we bought when I was 5 for $18,500.
Money illusion.
Adjust prices for inflation, and there’s no real long-term skyrocketing in housing prices. Not even much of an increase at all — either a steady decline or staying flat, except for a brief increase during the Baby Boom. See the Excel spreadsheet here, 3rd paragraph from the bottom:
http://www.econ.yale.edu/~shiller/data.htm
LikeLike
All of the schemes involving tranchifying portofolios and Credit default swaps for back-up did nothing to improve the actual, real world unpredictability of home mortgages as investment vehicles. All of that was for image enhancement. Nothing was changed about the underlying possibilities of non-payment, early payment, and interest shifts. And because those things did improve the appearance of stability, a lot more money was drawn into such securities thus inflating the bubble – thus creating more real-world instability.
LikeLike
“Today, I wonder why all those really smart guys back then propping up the mortgage brokerage business on phantom assumptions couldn’t see the sleeziness in what they were doing like I could after only a half hour inside the business. Or maybe they did and didn’t care.”
I sense an interesting parallel between your reaction to boom economy mortgage gamers and feminazi/beta reactions tsychology in particular) recognizes the various attraction buttons in the opposite sex that serve as loopholes for pick up gamers. The player has the clarity of thought to identify ugly truths about human nature (and female past sex and/or sustained attraction, and then exploits those loopholes for his own personal gain. The player didn’t make the rules of this crazy game, but he’s willing to see them for what they are and adjust his behavior accordingly. Some say it’s sleazy, and can’t understand how the player can act the way he does in good conscience. The player doesn’t mind this criticism, though, as long as he continues to get his. And after all, he’s giving women what they really want.
Boom economy mortgage gamers were similarly able and willing to identify all the nasty little loopholes in the insane, stock-market-centric, globalized 21st economy. Exploiting these loopholes might’ve seemed ethically dubious, but hey they’re not the ones who made the rules, and you either accept reality or allow reality to work against you. Plus, you’re facilitating a poor person’s dream of owning property, when no one else will.
Except, for the player, the boom never goes bust. (Unless maybe you’re “too good” at attracting and fucking women, and cause large swaths to fall desperately in love with you, who then band together, and violently assault you, “john tucker must die” style.)
LikeLike
I have been dissing mortgage brokers since 2003 when no one was listening.
Although, more from a social and stylistic standpoint.
Southern California was overrun with these Striped shirts, designer jeans, spiked hair and square toed Kenneth Coles fools.
There were so many striped shirts when you would walk into a bar you thought you were seeing one of those crappy hologram pictures that were popular in the 90’s.
I was never familiar with the Asian-Mortgage broker shop. That spot must have been pretty low end. It really doesn’t surprise me it was located in NoVA.
RIP mortgage brokers.
– MPM
LikeLike
Whiskey,
“Already, there’s a bunch of articles (sorry no links) on educated college grad women going into stripping to pay bills”
No need for the articles, just go down to your local Gentleman’s Club. Its been going on for a while at a much higher rate.
(I keep my finger on the pulse of Exotic Dancer trends, so to speak).
A trip to The Rhino in Las Vegas is even more pronounced.
– MPM
LikeLike
Rum–
That’s quite. Very insightful. This shadow banking also created a whole lot of liquidity outside the banking system and the federal reserve, which was also inflating through monetary easing even as the economy grew strong — but everyday prices other than assets such as houses and socks did not, mostly because of Asian cheap manufacturing sold through Wal*Mart and well the rest of our distribution system. So Greenspan said “no inflation” and proceeded to inflate assets like mad. While the Wall Street shadow banking system did so as well.
An enormous bubble which has very painfully been bursting, and which the Fed and Treasury are scrambling mightily to keep from collapsing even more.
Essentially, by inflating again, with a promise to deflate enough to keep runaway inflation from enveloping us down the road a year or so, they and we HOPE. Only possible because we are the reserve currency for the world, or by far the main one. Yeah the rest of the world is pissed, but their scarred more, and not sure we aren’t doing the right thing for them too, all in. Completely uncharted waters.
LikeLike
My favorite textbook for economic theory is “Liars Poker” by Micheal Lewis. He explained the issues with mortgage backed bonds perfectly back in the late 80s. After he got out.
LikeLike
Rum,
Liars Poker is a great book.
Here is Micheal Lewis’ article on what is going down now if you haven’t seen it:
http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom
Great read.
– MPM
LikeLike
Already, there’s a bunch of articles (sorry no links) on educated college grad women going into stripping to pay bills, and earn enough to pay for graduate school. Instead of taking loans. It’s also now socially acceptable to strip, ala Cody Diablo screenwriter / celebrity of “Juno.” Or various other books by women touting their various sexual exploits.
Typical examples of Journalism Lite. Articles on the topic all seem to be long on anecdotes and short on statistics. How many non-skank women have gone into stripping or other forms of “sex work” on account of recession-caused financial pressures? No one has any idea. I understand that it’s probably very difficult if not impossible to get any sort of reliable statistics on the strip club industry, so perhaps it would be better for media outlets not to have run these articles in the first place.
On what do you base your claim that it’s now socially acceptable for women to work as strippers? A few celebrity anecdotes won’t suffice.
Peter
LikeLike
Dougjnn:
“However, the impetus towards lower lending standards WAS started by a whole push of the Federal Government designed primarily to increase the percentage of home ownership. ”
I can agree with you on that.
Although you didn’t specifically say CRA, I was feeling like you were pointing in that direction. The CRA-baiting, to me, is just an excuse for right-wingers to throw the current mess on the backs of Dems. *Both* sides are the culprits.
There’s just a difference between the government encouraging home ownership, touting it, and changing the tax code to favor it. To me, this has a much bigger impact than the CRA did.
Whiskey:
I have to disagree with your point that the impetus for the mess was high gasoline prices. Surely that had a marginal part to play, but there are so many other factors that began before gasoline hit $4. Higher interest rate kick-ins on ARMs played a bigger part than high gasoline prices.
Dougjnn (again):
“Only possible because we are the reserve currency for the world, or by far the main one.”
Yes, but for how long? This story from the other day didn’t get nearly enough attention from the press:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7851925a-17a2-11de-8c9d-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
Maybe the Chinese don’t have the teeth yet to make this happen. They are still too dependent on U.S. to make this happen, but if they convince others in the world to jump the U.S.S. Dollar, well then, we have a much worse and more immediate problem than the “Plausible Apocalypse” Roissy wrote about yesterday.
LikeLike
Chuck–
There’s a real danger of this happening AFTER the current crisis and so far not really major depression has passed. it won’t happen during because the world is too scared of even worse to follow, and as I said, because most of it outside of China especially but even inside china too aren’t sure we aren’t doing the right thing. I think most even think we mostly are, but might pay big later, while they try to avoid increasing THEIR government debt anything like as much as we are. Consider that the dollar is still stronger than it was before this crisis began, though it has gone up in the last couple of weeks to about halfway between it’s crisis bottom (when the world fled TOWARDS dollars) and it’s pre crisis low.
However if this ends with hyper inflation, then yeah the dollar is likely finished. As the world’s reserve currency. That will be very bad for the US and may come to be considered the dawning of the end of American global leadership. Though all in that would still take a couple of decades to be complete. Our military etc., but we need our economic leadership to support it. There’s a lot at stake.
Martin Feldman is the conservative (but not close to an ideologue unlike Larry Kudlow) economist I most respect for big picture wisdom. Yeah he saw this coming almost a decade ago. Really. Or as likely coming unless the unwind of our leverage build up, balance of payments deficit ballooning, asset inflation and saving rate collapse unwound gradually, which he was afraid it very well might not. To the extent Feldman is on board with the Obama admin’s hyper reflating the way it’s doing it, by printing money, big picture, then I think it’s our best piss in the wind. Uncharted waters.
If they’re ignoring voices like his, and his in particular, then I’m very scarred. But that’s not an immediate thing. It’s a year or more off. I should go try to find out what he’s saying on this, if he is publicly. i haven’t in a few months.
LikeLike
Re: reserve currency – it’s all a bluff. What other currency could serve as a reserve currency?
Whatever currency it is, the Chinese would have to sell T-bills and buy that government’s debt. But outstanding U.S. government debt currently totals $11 trillion, which — with the notable exception of Japanese government debt, which very few foreigners even touch — is greater than the next five government debt issues combined, by a ratio of two to one.
In other words, no other county in the world has a financial market big enough to support China’s massive reserves.
They could buy gold – a good idea – but the price would appreciate so rapidly that it would soon be a useless exercise.
Not to mention the fact that the European and British governments are even more fucked than we are.
LikeLike
Yea but chuck don’t ya think the us could manufacture all of its widgets itself? I mean think about it. Who told China to talk about a one world currency?
Why did the US start buying from other countries so much stuff? Think about that.
Why are multinational corporations considered so optimum and yet have such a low yield?
Why is excel so fucking limited?
Why are computers faster and more powerful but yet made to be slower?
Why does doubling math in life not work or does it?
100,000
200,000
400,000
800,000
1,600,000
3,200,000
6,400,000
12,800,000
25,600,000
51,200,000
102,400,000
204,800,000
409,600,000
819,200,000
1,638,400,000
3,276,800,000
6,553,600,000
13,107,200,000
26,214,400,000
52,428,800,000
104,857,600,000
209,715,200,000
419,430,400,000
838,860,800,000
1,677,721,600,000
3,355,443,200,000
6,710,886,400,000
13,421,772,800,000
26,843,545,600,000
53,687,091,200,000
LikeLike
Why suffering over food/widgets on this planet fucks with my head.
LikeLike
@Seeking Alpha
You just said what I was going to say:
http://www.stratfor.com/geopolitical_diary/20090324_geopolitical_diary_chinas_calculated_currency_rhetoric
LikeLike
Hey! Another Stratfor reader. It’s funny, I almost NEVER read their economic commentary but that was actually an interesting article.
And I took a quote directly from it. Didn’t cite. Sorry.
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha —
You’re absolutely right. That’s part of why I said that it’s never going to happen in the current crisis and depression. That’s part of why the dollar’s gotten stronger since the beginning of this crisis, not weaker, despite our reflating by printing money.
But that it’s possible it could if our aggressive printing leads to hyperinflation after.
How?
Consider how the Euro came about. There was one very strong large currency in Europe, the German mark, and a bunch of smaller and weaker ones. Well the pound was also fairly strong but has remained outside the Euro system. With the Euro as an anchor, and German central bankers as the backbone of the Euro central bank, the other currencies of the EU in stages swapped into Euros. The same could happen globally, or among the G20 more or less, with the Euro as the anchor. They’d try to get us to join, swapping in new dollars (the old ones having been made worthless in the hyper inflation.)
It would take a massive crisis to be feasible. But if there were a dollar hyperinflation that the rest of the world blamed entirely on US, rendering all their reserve currency and hence a lot of their decades of accumulate savings worthless, that might do it.
I don’t think this is likely but it’s the worst downside. What’s a more likely downside is that to prevent hyperinflation we are forced to jack up interest rates or they simply are jacked up not by our fed but by the rest of the world as they refuse (comparatively) to buy our government debt until the interest rate it pays compensates them for the currency decline risk. The result could be an extended or very extended period of low to no growth.
LikeLike
My brother-in-law got a job at one of those places right out of college. He’d refinance people to pay off their credit cards, auto loans, and “reduce their payments” by extending these debts out 30 years. A year later, the same people would be back with new credit card balances etc, to refi again.
His company knew the real-estate assessors that would give inflated values on the houses and they would give “suggestions” to the customers filling out applications to increase their chances of getting a mortgage. Huge “origination fees” etc, could be inserted in loans of customers who didn’t know any better, and that money would go straight in the mortgage companies pocket, with a cut for the broker.
He made alot of money, but he saw the writing on the wall and got out a few years ago before the sub-prime industry went bust and the executives at the company got indicted.
LikeLike
The US plan seems to take for granted that Gov debt can be sold in large amounts and at low cost. Granted, the Fed can always print the money to buy them and theoretically depress interest costs but what if a different form of market psychology takes hold? What if the picture of the Fed buying T bills with made up money causes confidence in their true value to evaporate? And vast sums of Gov. debt have to be resold regularly. I see a downward spiral.
Printing money out of thin air is like the Kings of old who remade coinage with some brass mixed with the gold. It can be completely self defeating if everybody knows it.
LikeLike
dougjnn –
Yes, hyperinflation is definitely the only alternative to an ‘everything works out okay’ situation. The question is could the US experience hyperinflation while the rest of the world continues along it’s merry way? That’s the assumption that you seem to be making.
I’d imagine if the US has hyperinflation, Europe will be bankrupt and China will have massive social unrest.
LikeLike
ironrailsironweights, very very true.
Slate.com is a piece of garbage that I no longer read, but even a piece of garbage can yield something from time to time.
Slate used to follow “NY Times trend pieces” and eviscerate them for failing to cite any statistics and going on 3-4 anecdotal stories. It was a parlor game that was very fun, if depressing, because most people don’t realize they’re being had.
The bad thing is I don’t think the journalists themselves recognize this. Think of how many news stories begin with “the stock market fell/rose today on the President’s speech.” No Data is provided; the reporter noted a correlation and decided it was causation. That doesn’t make much sense, considering thousands of traders work every minute and are persuaded for reasons and emotions disconnected from one speech. It might be true, might not be, but the media believes it, and Mom & Pop at home buy it.
Its why journalists get elections so wrong, and why its so easy to be a pundit. Just cite anecdotes to support a prediction, and never get called on it, and even if you are called on it, claim another anecdote overrode the old one. Being a pundit seems like the easiest job right next to “professional blow job tester.”
LikeLike
A good life tip: never take a sleazy job, it always collapses and more often that not, it takes you with it. Various relatives and acquaintances had to be involved in wierd operations to make ends meet in Arabic countries; God knows what you’ll go down as assisting or be a victim of if part of a shady company (we’re talking drugs, organised crime, serious life-altering backstabbing and scapegoating, unenforceable contracts and so on).
It’s too easy to trust someone who speaks your own mental language.
LikeLike
Yea betti “organized crime” when it is a family a multinational when it is big business.
LikeLike
The concept that a family that worked together could only get rich big time if it was involved in crime. Yea right.
LikeLike
LOL. Damn Roissy, your little story just brought back memories from back in the day. Gotta stand up and testify now.
The Obsidian has worked in many fields, blessed to see many sides of life and meet many different kins of people. One of those paths was the Wonderful World of Sales.
Retail, wholesale, door to door, you name it and I sold it. And GOD, did I have a ball.
It takes a particular type of person to do that, man. Most don’t have it. Sure, you lie, you bullshit, you do what you gotta to get the job done. Not much different than any other area of life.
Being out there, in the field, cold calling on folks, door to door, that shit was mad fun. I used to clown the hardasses into buying stuff from me. They were my faves, the so-called tough ones.
I met all kinds and types, man. Learned how to speak Spanish from sitting inside the homes of so many Hispanic folks and listening to them. Was able to speak enough to sell my stuff, and the really nice thing about it is that they always would ask if I was a Cubano.
Saw Glenngarry Glennross and Boiler Room constantly. Stock footage back at base. We watched them in our downtime. They was showng some real ish, don’t get it twisted.
Now, as for the racial stuff Vietdon was puttng down, yea, its true. But, you know how the O do-he has no limits. I simply went into Captian Kirk mode and did the damn thing.
White folks, rich and poor, Italian, Polish, Lithuanian, Russian, the high and low I sold to em all. Same deal w/the Vietnamese, the Chinese and Koreans, the Laotians and the Cambodians and Thais.
Jains and Gujuratis. Pakistanis and Turks. Bruhs from SAFR & Ethiopia & Ghana & Nigeria.
LOL! I remember, one of my all time best deals was when I was in a stompdown racist township in Jersey, the Cracker Barrell Lady slammed the door as soon as she saw my Black face. I walked down her driveway, it was hot as shit, and I had a Bruce Banner moment-I got mad as fuck, turned around and did a Marine knock on the door, and when she opened it, I shoved my foot in it; she tried to slam the door back shut I was so amped I didn’t even feel the pain. She ended up being one of my customers.
Carackerassed cracker. LOL.
That was a signature knock of mine, what my Daddy and Grandaddy taught me was the Marine knock-BOOM, BOOM! Used it to great effect in my door to door days, and that alone w/my look etc often made people think I was the Police:
“You da Police?!” LOL
I remember selling phone service and I sold this couple that was in the middle of an argument-and let me tell ya, you aint heard an argument till you heard Black folks in the hood argue. In Motown. I sold them the service, got em hooked up, and suggested they use it to get counseling.
For some reason, sales guys from Philly had a reputation. When I was down in Bmore, this chick came at me with “you Philly guys always got some kinda new deal”, which I took as a hook point. Signed her up, got the commish, but what she really wanted was for me to holla. I would soon find out that she was by no means alone.
My Brothers, my Brothers, I tell you I’ve seen more Women in various states of undress while being out there on the bricks than at any other time in my life. And I seen a lot. There be a whole lotta Women out there hard up for the Good Wood. A lot of my colleagues partook of the spoils, but not me. I always stuck to the rule to never mix business with pleasure. Its stood me in good stead down through the years. But that didn’t stop Latin, and White and Black and even a few Asian ladies from hitting on me. Hard.
Getting that deal is almost like busting a superstrong nut. Ask sale guys, they’ll tell you. And it can be very addictive. I mean, what guy doesn’t want to bust a nut, right?
Thanks for bringing back some good memories, R. That’s wassup.
Y’all holla
O
LikeLike
Roissy, among the numerous other things for which you deserve formidable commendation, you know that it’s “northern Virginia,” not “Northern Virginia,” as even the Washington Post writes it.
LikeLike
Hey Roissy, the City Paper lists you as DC’s second-best “Dude Blogger.”
LikeLike
nothing to do with this post, but haha:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/online_dating_helping_pathetic?utm_source=a-section
LikeLike
‘How many non-skank women have gone into stripping or other forms of “sex work” on account of recession-caused financial pressures? No one has any idea. I understand that it’s probably very difficult if not impossible to get any sort of reliable statistics on the strip club industry, so perhaps it would be better for media outlets not to have run these articles in the first place.”
Or like I said, just go down to your local Gentleman’s Club and you will find out.
– MPM
LikeLike
It’s immoral to let a sucker keep his money.
I won’t be happy until I see them starving in the streets. They elected Obama and Bush twice.
LikeLike
Easy to quatify. Just count all the strippers without a tatoo.
LikeLike
what do you think of the millionaire matchmaker? and vh1’s new show tough love?
LikeLike
1) The Chicoms are whistling in the wind when it comes to a new world reserve currency. I am 1 of possibly 10 people in the world who understand petrodollar seniorage and I am about to explain it to you. In the words of Young MC lets break it right down…
a) Every single person in the world has a forward lifetime energy diet. Right now and for the rest of their lives every person, business and country in the world implicitly buys USD every time they fill up their tank or pay their electricity bill (underlying purchase of coal or uranium denomiated in USD)
b) So when people tell you that the USD is just another paper fiat currency destined for collapse because it is backed buy nothing they are wrong*. It is backed by the future energy diet of every single person in the world. All the oil sucked out of the ground and traded is denominated in USD and All of the oil still in the ground is denominated in USD.
c) And look around you…. isn’t it clear that Oil does all of the heavy lifting in the modern economy? Oil is moderninity
d) This is why the Chicoms and everyone else have to buy USD and US treasuries and this allows the US to print USD denomiated treasuries and banknotes.
e) People SAY the US doesn’t produce enough exports and stuff but it produces the most valuable export in the world. PHYSICAL SECURITY. Sure it cant ensure every street in Bagdad (or every street in DC ftm) is safe but it can secure key economic infrastructure and thats the real aim.
f) And as long as the US has PHYSICAL SECURITY over the oil fields and infrastructure. Why would it let anyone else print the trading stamps to get that oil?. Answer – it won’t!
g) So expect the Chicoms and the French to keep pissing and moaning for the rest of our lives about the USD-Oil nexus (and by neccessary extension the rest of global trade) . But until they can challenge the US’s ability to project PHYSICAL SECURITY over the oil fields and infrastructure nothing will change.
And I dont think they have the stomach for that!
2) I teach at post-graduate university – 2000 plus students a year come through my doors. I also go to clubs – there is absolutely no correlation between the two groups.
However, if you were a “dancer”, wouldn’t you tell people you were at grad school. You’d earn more in you inevitable sideline as a hookers and you’d also have more hope of scoring a richer sugardaddy by holding up the pretence of intelligence and honest earning potential.
Always look for the freely purchased (with a lie or ommission) optionality in any marketplace.
* Ron Raul (who i love btw) is upset about Nixon closing the gold window. The $35 USD used to be a trading stamp to one once of Gold. but now it is a trading stamp to Oil.
LikeLike
And if any Negro were to pound on my door like the idiot who posted above claims, he’d get his sorry black ass beat and/or shot.
LikeLike
Mark in Ark:
“And if any Negro were to pound on my door like the idiot who posted above claims, he’d get his sorry black ass beat and/or shot.”
Uh huh, sure you would.
LikeLike
PA
‘How many non-skank women have gone into stripping or other forms of “sex work”
Easy to quatify. Just count all the strippers without a tatoo.”
These days, civilians are as inked up as the Exotics.
– MPM
LikeLike
Max from Australia:
So if Physical Security is breached over the oil fields, the U.S. runs a much larger risk of the $ losing reserve currency status?
I remember hearing that as the *true* reason for the war in Iraq. It actually kind of makes sense to me. The war isn’t so much about the oil *per se*, but about the dollars securing that oil
Because in reality, the price of oil can go through the roof. Consumers and businesses would pay the higher prices for that energy. This wouldn’t be a walk in the park, but economies and technology would adjust to compensate in the long run.
However, if the $ were to lose reserve status, the long run has no bearing on any of this discussion. We’d be fucked.
Am I correct in my interpretation Max?
LikeLike
I haven’t been to a strip club in about 5 years but my o m e g a friend Ace tells tales, from Miami up through Connecticut.
From what I hear, I wouldn’t enjoy myself there like I used to. Virtally every dancer is inked, pierced, and has fake tits.
LikeLike
Virtally every dancer is inked, pierced, and has fake tits.
And I’m sure none of them have GNP’s.
Peter
LikeLike
PA,
Yeah, you would be shocked.
Its not a question of inked or not these days.
It is simply degrees of inking.
side note:
Some higher end clubs “claim” to be less ink friendly, but I have yet to see them turn away a flawless girl with ink.
But then again, like I said, civilians are ink heavy these days too.
Personally?
I don’t care if a girl is inked or not.
I just care if she is fly.
– MPM
LikeLike
If a fool like Mark in Ark would even look like he was putting
his paws on me, he’d be drawing back a bloody stump.
O
LikeLike
Wait…what the fuck??
Why isn’t this blog nominated for a best choice in something??
LikeLike
And I’m sure none of them have GNP’s.
I think the last time I saw a pubic hair at a strip club was in 1988. When I was a schoolboy sneaking into Mob-run strip clubs at The Block in Baltimore. If you can call it “sneaking in.” Back then they just let you in, even if you were a pimply 16 going on 14.
But to get to the Block, you had to park the car elsewhere (Ace would always “borrow” his parents’ car) and get past the dark unpopulated streets with drug and fake Rolex dealers chatting you up. Which was pretty fucking scary at the time.
I remember I said something wiseass to one of them, who got all serious on me. Three of my buddies kept walking, one hang back. But that’s how you know who your real friends are, eh?
LikeLike
on March 26, 2009 at 7:34 pm Chuck
So if Physical Security is breached over the oil fields, the U.S. runs a much larger risk of the $ losing reserve currency status?
I remember hearing that as the *true* reason for the war in Iraq. It actually kind of makes sense to me. The war isn’t so much about the oil *per se*, but about the dollars securing that oil
Yes this is true. Look my opinion (from the outside looking in) is that
1) Saddam and his hencemen were scumbags and needed to be taken out ; for their own sake, as a warning to other scumbags, and just for fun.
2) More US influence (hard and soft power) in the world is a very good thing. Much better than the alternatives. The loss of life of US soliders in Iraq has been sad and terrible for those concerned – but – historically this has been a very low cost war.
Now with regard to Oil try this thought experiment:
a) Imagine you owned and operated all of the funpark rides (infrastructure) at the state or county fairground.
b) People coming to the fairground have a natural demand for your rides.
c) Would you let someone else print and issue the tickets (trading stamps) to your rides?
c) Or would you set up a booth and issue as many tickets as you could taking the ticket holders cash upfront leaving them with a worthless piece of cardboard whose only value is to be traded in long queues at whatever prevailing prices you set inside the system?
LikeLike
1988 as the Last Year of the Pube is a hyperbole of course. As late as early 2000s I’d see girls with closely-trimmed bushes, usually an inadequate but at least reassuringly post-pubescent landing strip.
LikeLike
I’m not trying to start anything by saying this, but I’m going to be honest. I read Roissy and Roosh. I like both of their stuff, although I can’t see how Roissy didn’t make number 1.
I’m not in DC, so I’m not sure what the buzz there is about these guys, but I’d have to guess Roissy is the more talked about blog. I won’t go into content and all that stuff, but it’s pretty obvious that Roissy takes his blog a lot more serious, at this point, than Roosh. Roissy makes a point to post daily. His footprint is all over the blogosphere while Roosh is self-professedly often tired of blogging. He doesn’t post every day, and he relies more on “fluff” like book lists and stuff than Roissy (although Roissy has such a large following he is able to do Reader Mailbags and shit).
There has been some speculation here that Roissy may have a book deal in the works. Regardless, up to this point, this blog is Roissy’s book whereas Roosh has “Bang”. It seems like Roissy puts everything into his blog whereas Roosh holds out some.
Roissy’s blog is mentioned much more on such esteemed blogs as Mine, 2 blowhards, steve sailor, half sigma, etc.
Something tells me either Roosh has some friends at City Paper or they don’t personally don’t like Roissy. I’ll go ahead and assume the latter.
LikeLike
Yea max it has been low cost comparatively. I came up with a concept to make it almost zero cost. Haven’t recieved feedback though.
LikeLike
Mustn’t irradiate the oil reserves Gunslinger
LikeLike
While long-term this change in social dynamics (fear of loans/debt, hard economic times) *could* favor beta providers, it’s just easily something that could tip into even MORE pursuit of Alphas through sex-work in various forms.
So in other words, we get hotter, more sexual looking women in the real world who don’t burden me with their financial needs. I fail to see the downside. 🙂
Admittedly though, in a hypothetical world where I was white and my income was at $50K (per NYC purchasing power rates), if non-date were to come up to me, I’d feel somewhat insulted, and I would never allow her into my life sexually because it simply fuels the concept that women only use beta males for money. Anything that makes beta providers more attractive as partners only makes the lives of beta providers more miserable as they’re tricked into relationships with women who will never be capable of loving them. But, for some reason Whiskey, you seem to enjoy living the lie.
I suspect that women like non-date would simply work at cruddy jobs and live at home with their parents paying minimimal or no rent as long as their parents still have their suburban homes and jobs.
From what I hear, I wouldn’t enjoy myself there like I used to. Virtally every dancer is inked, pierced, and has fake tits.
So in other words, it’s paradise for David Alexander and his fellow porn addicts?
LikeLike
Naa Max just requires 51,200 cameras and same number of remote control .223 along 800 miles of road. 100 personnel should be able to monitor.
Zero sum game to try to emplace an IED or a mortar neither side has to die after the people placing em figure it out and tell their friends. World is not ready for “perfect war” though I wreckin.
LikeLike
Sounds like a good plan – Gunslingergregi –
Who cares about world opinion – its just re-gurgitated French propaganda
LikeLike
Off Topic – similar to the Rhianna Phenomena – I wonder how many mothers know or suspect their kids are being abused but do nothing???
http://www.smh.com.au/national/sex-slave-teen-murder-charge-dropped-20090327-9d3g.html
During the committal hearing, the court heard that several people strongly suspected the teenager’s relationship with her stepfather was sexual. Her mother – who was living in the Mooroopna house with the pair but working night shifts at the SPC Ardmona cannery – accused him of “f—ing” her daughter but he dismissed it.
LikeLike
Thing is not a shitload have died but 32000 wounded. That is a lot.
LikeLike
On the real estate thing, anyone have a formula for cost of repairs vs rent income on a house or numbers for average maintenance cost number of calls from tennants?
LikeLike
last week, i googled an old coworker from the dirty mortgage shop i got my first job at out of school. kid was a class act across the board, smoking dope under his desk, always looking for rides to east orange to score more smack. good on the phones though and put up some numbers for sure.
found a 62 page civil suit that was snowballing into its own little mini-tort. this kid was selling neg am loans with “fixed payments for ten years at 2.5% interest.” at closings, people noticed the documents were different than what he’d described. he’d tell people to go ahead and sign what they had in front of them and he would fax the corrected documents in the morning. then he’d pull the disappearing act til the rescission period was up.
some of his excuses were listed in the lawsuit. he told a guy he was robbed at gunpoint by muggers who took his cell phone and briefcase, so he could not return the call because he was in the hospital being treated for broken ribs. another ‘client’ was told that he’d been in a terrible car accident and needed a marrow transplant. after one couple figured out they got smoked, they traveled upstate to his broker shop. his coworkers told them that he’d left the country to finalize his “arranged marriage”.
you can’t make shit like this up if you tried. there are plenty of people stretched thin by slumping real estate, but many more imbeciles who deserve their fate. and yes, the CRA empowered them to make their decisions.
fha streamlines are the new subprime. the no-doc fha-sponsored refinances are up to more than 30% of fha loan originations. (the target had previously been 9%) this bubble will burst just like subprime, albeit more slowly as the CDS prices are much higher with interest rates being fixed. the difference: the government “secures” the performance of these vehicles to investors, so our government will be picking up the tab when these loans default. there will be no balanced budget anytime soon.
LikeLike
Cannon’s Canon,
Classic tale.
Its always interesting to check out old associates on line and see what kind of scallywag behavior they have gotten themselves into.
I was just checking some stuff last night.
Do you have the 62 page civil suit?
I wouldn’t mind checking it.
– MPM
LikeLike
lash:
Roissy, among the numerous other things for which you deserve formidable commendation, you know that it’s “northern Virginia,” not “Northern Virginia,” as even the Washington Post writes it.
well done, sir! i’m surprised anyone noticed that.
LikeLike
Chuck
The convo went something like this:
She: Roissy, are you kidding me? He’s a misogynist and an anti-feminist. Seems like half, ok one third of the posts of his that I’ve seen there are direct attacks on feminism, and I don’t mean loony radical feminism either. I’ll grant you he’s a great writer and has a large following though.
He. Yeah Roissy stirs things up. Maybe it was time that some guys took on feminism in a half way effective way. [Gutsy for a beta, and a bit heretical. I’m proud.] But come on. Everybody talks about Roissy. He’s funny as hell and he’s a superb writer. And he blogs virtually every weekday and they’re usually longish but tight posts. I’ll grant you I don’t like his misogyny either, though he does seem to like women, he just likes to put them down in some ways to build guys’ confidence I think [more gutsyness for a beta, maybe there’s some hope for this guy], and I grant you his anti-feminism can be over the top [obligatory beta bow to his feminist high religion], but have you seen the size his comment threads have grown to be? Lots of over 400 comments these days? Where else ANYWHERE? He’s talked about all over. And his writings superb, tack sharp and wryly amusing, almost every post.
She. No way. I admitted he writes well and is talked about a lot, usually as being a terrible influence, by I’m not having that leading misogynist ranked number one.
He. Alright, alright, you win. [Who’s surprised?] Roissy number 2, and that other PUA Roosh’s blog number 1.
She. Ok, ok, I agree — under protest. I shouldn’t let you get your way. [After she did.]
The end.
LikeLike
It’s socially acceptable because in the UK, prior to parent uproar, there were toy stripper poles in supermarkets. It’s acceptable because Diablo is admired, gushingly, in women’s magazines. It’s acceptable because Oprah has run admiring shows on “empowered” strippers, along with the View. It’s acceptable because Toni Bentley “The Surrender” wrote an entire book about her experience in the back door, so to speak, and became a female-supported sensation.
Open, explicit sexual behavior and among them, stripping, *IS* certainly something that female-oriented magazines, TV shows, and books all depict. And not in condemnatory fashion, either, but in glowing terms.
LikeLike
dougjnn:
I wouldn’t doubt it went something very much like that. That was good enough for me to think you might have actually been in on that conversation.
I would assume though that there was at least a 2:1 women to men ratio. I say this because only women are irrational enough to look past the blatant facts that Roissy’s site is more popular, more followed, and more managed than Roosh’s and vote with bias.
LikeLike
G,
Absolutely; please enjoy.
http://74.125.93.104/search?q=cache:AqtprAnOqiEJ:www.responsiblelending.org/pdfs/indy-zurawski-nj-complaint.pdfcd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Starts to get really good around page 28. No good money-making schemes to exploit here, although I would like to see how much of the “treble damages” are awarded to the plaintiffs. Maybe suing banks for simply offering neg am loans can turn into a gravy train.
LikeLike
What the only 2 sites I frequent and they both made it hahaahah
LikeLike
Now ya just need to do the Roissy/Roosh club with the certified alpha section.
LikeLike
First 50 people with 10k get 50 percent of profit after expenses.
LikeLike
LOL Chuck:
“There has been some speculation here that Roissy may have a book deal in the works. ”
Holy-titty-fucking-shit could you imagine how funny it would be for Roissy’s book to go best-seller, and him get interviewed by the Mt. Rushmore of Wymyn on “The View”?
OwwwGawwwd…………boy would they be in for a suprise.
Once Gene Simmons (yes, THAT Gene Simmons) was interviewed by NPR’s politically-correct-stuffy-assed Terri Gross. He mauled her, I mean he mauled her like a hungry pit bull. It was hysterical.
LikeLike
Whiskey,
I have a family member (now a pretty successful contractor) who was asked to be a male dancer by some company (I cant remember if it was Chippendales or whomever). He looked like a bodybuilding Jared Leto if you could imagine Leto weighing about 230. He really was bodybuilding at the time, not merely “built”, and had dreams of competing and all of that. He was approached at a bar by someone wanting him to do it, called the number on the card and found out it was legit………….but didn’t do it (this guy has always went to church, he is super-nice). It just wasn’t him. He did win a truck in a male “hot body” contest once, and wont other money in bars in “hot body” contests. Ive never had the courage to ask the guy if he participated in “hot body” contest in gay bars (he probably didn’t) but he had the “pretty” look like Leto does.
Its funny that male strippers dont face the “stigma” that female strippers do. Nobody thinks about how many of those women those guys have probably fucked……………….and how many gay men they have probably have been paid exceedingly well to have sex with. Male strippers dont seem to be associated with “the life”. I think some of it may be the weightlifting and keeping their bodies in top shape, so that they dont appear “decrepit” like older strippers do.
Stripping makes Herculean liars out of women. They have to saddle up to guy after guy and pretend he is interesting and attractive in order to get him to buy dances and stuff bills in their G’s. They have to “play” men over and over and over again. One can’t just turn that off when they get off work. They get used to “playing” men both in the club and out. Its hard to shake such a mental frame. Imagine being a boiler-room hack……………..eventually it would bleed out into your personality when not scamming the marks. I imagine the first-time-divorce rate for strippers would be quite hight.
LikeLike
e) People SAY the US doesn’t produce enough exports and stuff but it produces the most valuable export in the world. PHYSICAL SECURITY. Sure it cant ensure every street in Bagdad (or every street in DC ftm) is safe but it can secure key economic infrastructure and thats the real aim.
Well done, Max. SO many people forget this. The US may be in decline, but it’ll still be the most important country in the world until/unless this changes.
LikeLike
Thanks Chris
1) I would never bet on the US being in terminal decline – it will bounce back. (in fact you guys have turned around your saving rate back to 1985 levels from negative to about 8+% in about 9 mths)
2) To simple minded journalists, TV news, and Eurotards, factories full of labour (quasi slave) – LOOK AND FEEL – like economic engines!
3) BUT they are no match for FREEDOM. FREEDOM to trade, freedom of association, of belief has infinitely more economic value than the ability to mass produce $5 Nikes, and $10K Hondas – its just inanimate and thus harder to point to.. When the next boom comes Americans* will be free to participate in it with numbers, speed and comittment that no other country in the world can match.
4) No one will ever have the stomach to challenge the US militarily – the demographics are such that China will be old before it is really rich and powerful.
*anyone got a greencard for me ;-(
LikeLike
Completely unrelated, but check this out. That 13 year-old English future football firm hooligan didn’t actually knock up that 15 year-old. The 15 year-old’s mother convinced her to lie about who the father of her child was.
They’re trying to cuckhold 13 year-olds now across the pond! Dollars to donughts says the 15 year-old’s mother no longer lives with her father and she got assualted by one of her whore mother’s boyfriends.
What really blows my mind, is that the cat ladies over at Jezebel in the comments below think that 13 year-old Alfie is going to be disapointed the child isn’t his. That must be exactly the same kind of disapointment the wrongfully imprisioned feel on the day their convictions are overturned. What a horrible, horrible thing it is to find you life isn’t over before it ever really began.
How delusional are these hags?
Oh well, he’ll just have to console himself with heroin and FIFA on XBOX360 for a couple years until he knocks up the next trollop. Ah, Manchester United fans… (Munich! Munich! Munich!)
LikeLike
And one last thing*
The deepest most fundamental economic kernel of the survivalists, Ron Paul, and Peter Schiffs et al arguement that the USA is in decline rests on the fact that the USD is a Fiat currency and all Fiat currencies inevitably collapse taking their civilisation with them. Historically this has been correct.
But we now live in a world where every country in the world has a fiat currency – so there is no viable alternative… Other than gold… and you guys hold about 70%-80% of the worlds above ground stock… There can be no gold standard without the US, and the US will never allow a gold standard..
Afterall do we really want to pay those god foresaken sand monkeys with gold for our oil needs? or would we rather keep the gold for a rainy day and pay for oil in tradings stamps fresh from our printing press (USD’s)
*have a good weekend all cheers
LikeLike
RF:
If he doesn’t realize how lucky he is *now*, it’ll hit him in about 10 years.
The British are nuts. I’m fully convinced that their society is in worse straits than ours. My dad’s side of the family hail from England, so I feel okay saying that the greatest decline in all of western civilization has taken place in England over the past couple of decades.
LikeLike
wait wait wait, i didnt catch how this ended up being the fault of liberals. either you didnt complete your post or the liberal media censored your post for content – thats my theory.
LikeLike
Max is on the money, Saddam threatened to trade oil to the French for Euros before the invasion……….
LikeLike
Yea, Vietdon et al. made money while the gettin’ was good. Thanks to the Federal Reserve and Treasury, however, it’s worth a whole lot less two-years later.
What the wonderful sounding euphemism? Quantitative easing?
Only in the fevered swamps of the Potomac or the posh back rooms of Westminister could such a term be hatched.
LikeLike
Naive question perhaps: but what keeps the US from outright taking over Saudi Arabia and/or Kuwait?
Those countries are about as capable of defending themselves as a 5 year old. Just go in, make up some good PR pretext for it, pay off the local ruling families, secure the fields, dictate the prices, and keep the profits.
LikeLike
I am proud to say that during my tenure in the mortgage business, the company I worked for did NOT practice “shoe-horning” any old sap who walked in the door.
We worked hard to do the opposite between the years of 2000-2005; most of our refinance clients already had a shitty subprime and we made a comfortable living moving them into a nice, fixed rate FHA loan.
I processed very few ARMs, few Stated Incomes, and would only go for the “fast & easy” loans for people who were already financially sound.
This was standard operating policy for us. The industry as a whole fucked themselves, and it came from the top down. I can’t blame the loan officers and brokers for putting people into questionable loan products which were 100% approved by giant investment houses as well as the federal government. It’s not the salesman’s fault that Bank X decided to give some deadbeat with a 550 credit score 100% financing, zero down, and an interest-only monthly adjustable payment. Morons.
LikeLike
[i]Naive question perhaps: but what keeps the US from outright taking over Saudi Arabia and/or Kuwait?[/i]
Mecca and Medina are in Saudi Arabia, right? How do you think the 1 billion or so Muslims in the world would feel about infidels occupying those cities? The Russians and the Chinese would do everything possible to assist the jihadis, too.
Really its not a good idea.
LikeLike
Naive question perhaps: but what keeps the US from outright taking over Saudi Arabia and/or Kuwait?
a country that allows free immigration can’t be also a conquering empire. Empires only allowed immigration of slaves.
LikeLike
Kevin K
use instead of [ ]
LikeLike
use
LikeLike
Naive question perhaps: but what keeps the US from outright taking over Saudi Arabia and/or Kuwait?
Agreed with Kevin. While the direct costs of the military operation and occupation might be less than the benefits, the indirect costs in terms of lost world influence would be much higher.
Besides, we already get as much oil as we want as it is. It’s still extremely cheap, and anyway we’ll need high oil prices in the future to convince the market to invest in alternatives which – while not price competitive now – will be eventually.
@ Max from Australia – Exactly correct on the role military power plays in being a reserve currency. One of the features of a reserve currency is it has to be useful to buy supplies in a war. Not much point in holding Euros if Europe is devastated and can’t supply themselves let alone your own country.
LikeLike
a country that allows free immigration can’t be also a conquering empire. Empires only allowed immigration of slaves.
Our immigration policy becomes less and less free every day.
I have no problem with us becoming an empire so long as we don’t overextend ourselves. Fortunately Americans are the masters of efficiency. If anyone can profitably manage an empire, it’s us.
LikeLike
— How do you think the 1 billion or so Muslims in the world would feel about infidels occupying those cities?
How do 1 billion Westerners feel about third worlers occupying their cities? Doesn’t matter, because the ruling powers want it that way.
Same with Muslims’ feelings about “infidels” occupying Sauid Arabia. The only reason we hear about the “Arab Street” is because the ruling powers want it that way. As far as fanatical jihadists, the only reason they exist is because — you guessed it — the ruling powers tolerate them.
Besides, the US could occupy the oil fields and designate Mecca and Medina as “Protected Holy Cities” or whatever, off-limits to non-Muslims.
— a country that allows free immigration can’t be also a conquering empire.
I appreciate the sentiment, being that I am neither a fan of the empire nor of open imigration. But we have both, and the arrangement seems to work as intended, at least in the short-term.
LikeLike
How do 1 billion Westerners feel about third worlers occupying their cities? Doesn’t matter, because the ruling powers want it that way.
They have mixed feelings about it (I like it, you don’t) and the Westerners themselves rule the cities. 100% of the ‘Arab street’ would be against us occupying the Holy Lands and we would be the rulers, not them.
As for the rulers wanting it that way, I think you have it backwards. If anything the rulers would prefer a stronger US presence, especially before Saddam was removed from power, yet they can’t because of public opinion.
Public opinion is usually more important in authoritarian regimes than democratic ones. In democracies, the people feel (right or wrong) that they have a voice, so even when you have a deeply unpopular president like Bush, there’s not even a hint of revolution.
LikeLike
gig, Kevin K
For italics use <i>your text</i>
You can also try emphasis, use <em>your text</em>.
The latter should also produce italic text and maybe more “correct” from HTML standards point of view.
LikeLike
Besides, the US could occupy the oil fields and designate Mecca and Medina as “Protected Holy Cities” or whatever, off-limits to non-Muslims.
Or let Jordan take over Mecca and Medina. Jordan has some sort of historical claim to the area. Plus, of course, it’s a far more reasonable country than Saudi Arabia.
Peter
LikeLike
Those countries are about as capable of defending themselves as a 5 year old. Just go in, make up some good PR pretext for it, pay off the local ruling families, secure the fields, dictate the prices, and keep the profits.
PA, what are you channeling Donald Rumsfeld?
LikeLike
Z, its not funny, its natural.
No man wants a woman who doesn’t have high standards for her sperm donors. It means his children will be well cared for and will be his.
However, women want men who have passed the high standards of many other women. It means her children will be attractive and will reproduce.
People who deny this live in a delusional, illogical world, or, as it is properly known, “feminism.”
LikeLike
what are you channeling Donald Rumsfeld?
Not really, just wondering what is the rationale of U.S. Government, Inc. is as to why they don’t just take the baby’s candy away for themselves.
LikeLike
G: These days, civilians are as inked up as the Exotics.
G, that just means more women are skankier today.
Tatoos are trampstamps and hoe-marks. Good warning that whatever your preconceived notions of her, she’s easy.
LikeLike
Public opinion is usually more important in authoritarian regimes than democratic ones. In democracies, the people feel (right or wrong) that they have a voice, so even when you have a deeply unpopular president like Bush, there’s not even a hint of revolution.
That’s not entirely a bad point, but it ignores two things:
1) public opinion is managed. If Harvard University and New York Times suddenly decided that (say) Somali piracy is the world’s bigest evil, then I’d give it a year until Somali beaches are flourishing tourist paradises and that land’s denizens are driven into Sudan.
2) Westerners also don’t revolt because most have plenty of food & weater, and jobs they don’t want to lose.
LikeLike
Similarly, if Harvard and NYT liked GWB, he’d have had stratospheric approval ratings.
LikeLike
Not really, just wondering what is the rationale of U.S. Government, Inc. is as to why they don’t just take the baby’s candy away for themselves.
PA, We already tried to do that in Iraq. Didn’t turn out quite the way it was theorized.
LikeLike
the attacks on Bush were legion. It was hilarious how much the media sold its credibility on that. That made it all the more easier for them to creat Obama as The Messiah.
The best part? The Palin smears. She was a danger to the theme of getting Obama elected, she had to be stopped, despite the fact that Obama’s errors were more than hers, and, more importantly, she was only going to be vp, not pres.
The election of President Fuck-Up has only confirmed that the media knows nothing about getting good people in office.
Guns, gold, and government jobs, boys.
LikeLike
@DF – Don’t be stupid. That’s not even close to what we tried in Iraq. PA is suggesting we occupy the oil fields and just ship it straight to America without paying a dime.
We’ve tried to pacify Iraq’s cities and haven’t touched their oil
LikeLike
We already tried to do that in Iraq
We didn’t really try it. Do we de-fact own the oilfields there?
You have to keep in mind that the Iraq War shouldn’t be seen in terms of USA vs Iraq/Saddam/whatever. Instead, it was really an intermural civil war of sorts between rival power factions within the US: Pentagon vs the Left, essentially.
If the Left, which includes the DNC, NGOs, big media, etc., were on board withthe Iraq War, Baghdad today would look like Prague and Texas oil men would own the oilfields.
Think of a recent conflict in where all major power factions were on-board with the project: the Kosovo campaign. Where were the peace protests, the tanking approval ratings, the cries over bombed Serb children, the howling editorials? There weren’t any.
LikeLike
“The Asian girls snickered and one uncrossed and crossed her legs. I watched her crotch as she did this.”
Wouldn’t we all?
LikeLike
The irony about Kosovo is that part of the rationale for being involved was the genoicide of *Muslims* by the *Christians.*
That never, apparently, got out to Al Jazeera.
Also, its conveniently overlooked when the Left starts bitching that “we only attack non-white people.”
God I hate this country.
LikeLike
PA, don’t have much time to get into a long dialouge on this.
We didn’t really try it. Do we de-fact own the oilfields there?
No. We didn’t try it because it wasn’t feasible to do what you suggest, not then or now. We’re not living in the days of the Roman empire you know.
You have to keep in mind that the Iraq War shouldn’t be seen in terms of USA vs Iraq/Saddam/whatever. Instead, it was really an intermural civil war of sorts between rival power factions within the US: Pentagon vs the Left, essentially.
While I agree with your former point, I disagree with the latter.
If the Left, which includes the DNC, NGOs, big media, etc., were on board withthe Iraq War, Baghdad today would look like Prague and Texas oil men would own the oilfields.
The left overwhelmingly voted for the war, remember? It was only after the occupation began to unravel because of slew of tactical errors, did the left show how two-faced they really are. Discussions over the potential invasion of Iraq began before 9-11 within the administration. We need to face up to the fact that we fucked it up. That we propped up the motive for war with neo-con theory and post 9-11 anger is something that predates even the internal fights you’ve pointed out between the Pentagon and the left. That came much later.
Think of a recent conflict in where all major power factions were on-board with the project: the Kosovo campaign. Where were the peace protests, the tanking approval ratings, the cries over bombed Serb children, the howling editorials? There weren’t any.
There are no natural resources in high demand, no capital of any significance in that region which is why you didn’t get much outcry over what was done there. Neither was there any in Somalia, remember that?
PA, we see eye to eye on a lot of things and I enjoy reading your insights but this is a case where we just don’t agree. Arm-chair quarterbacking theories on world domination and outright theft is mental masturbation by a bunch of guys with high opinions of themselves but nary any power or knowledge to implement their wild ass theories. I’ve said all I care to say on the matter and I won’t address this further.
Seeking Alpha, leave us all a comment when you figure out how to be an alpha.
LikeLike
Japan is universally one of the best liked countries in the world. The United States is one of the most hated ones.
Two things that Japan doesn’t do, and the US does:
– invade the world
– invite the world
LikeLike
The left overwhelmingly voted for the war, remember?
The Democratic senators were for the war before they were against it.
LikeLike
Arm-chair quarterbacking theories on world domination and outright theft
Mind you, I don’t advocate the invasions and oil-theft. I was just trying to figure out why the US Gov. doesn’t do it, being that they probably could if they wanted to.
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha, leave us all a comment when you figure out how to be an alpha.
It’s a journey, not a destination – like most things in life. Don’t be catty just because you made a poorly thought out comment.
LikeLike
PA said:
Think of a recent conflict in where all major power factions were on-board with the project: the Kosovo campaign. Where were the peace protests, the tanking approval ratings, the cries over bombed Serb children, the howling editorials? There weren’t any.
End PA
In the Kosovo campaign, there were several groups already fighting America’s opponents, all America needed to do was tip the scales.
There is a big difference between a large power ‘picking the winner’ in a civil war, and just going in and taking an area over. The ‘picking the winner’ strategy has worked very, very well since history began. Probably worked well for pre-historic tribes to.
America tried the same with the Kurds, but they lack the numbers to make sufficient cat’s paws. In addition, Turkey would go nuts(has gone nuts, if that’s the way you want to see it).
The predatory tone of several of these posts is pretty much what I expected. Good thing these posters don’t treat other American’s like that, right?
You know, by being rabidly pro-immigration in a severe recession…. like Seeking Alpha.
Seeking Alpha:
Our immigration policy becomes less and less free every day.
Unlimited! Uncontrolled! Everyone from anywhere, right now!
And people thought I was joking. No, no, I listen to what these people actually say. They are quite serious. Everyone from anywhere, right now!
Though I would like the Hindu’s to be free of the H1B. So they could quit their employer if abused, and work for someone else. Also, it would stop them from being fired at anytime, for any reason, and sent back to India by the single employer they are allowed to work for. I could deal with that freedom. I somehow suspect that breaking those chains would upset Ayn Rand boy more than anything. And why would that be?
LikeLike
I could deal with that freedom. I somehow suspect that breaking those chains would upset Ayn Rand boy more than anything. And why would that be?
That’s a good question. For someone who is ‘rabidly pro-immigration’, why would I be upset by easing H1B restrictions. Aim for logical consistency.
LikeLike
“Think of a recent conflict in where all major power factions were on-board with the project: the Kosovo campaign. Where were the peace protests, the tanking approval ratings, the cries over bombed Serb children, the howling editorials? There weren’t any.”
Those who have problems with critics of the Iraq occupation would be smart to aggressively avoid any comparison with Kosovo.
LikeLike
“MAX
*anyone got a greencard for me ;-(”
Yea Max you can get a greencard. German chick I knew before went to lawyer. He said yea for 60k put into like a fund in us. Then you live there for certain amount of time and get that citizenship then get your 60k back.
We do have open immigration for people who have money.
A lot of doors open to people who can save money.
LikeLike
Think of a recent conflict in where all major power factions were on-board with the project: the Kosovo campaign. Where were the peace protests, the tanking approval ratings, the cries over bombed Serb children, the howling editorials? There weren’t any.
Perhaps not in the US, but they were all over Europe. Al Gore still caused a mini-riot by the student left and Russian immigrants the last time he visited, eager to denounce that Slav-killing fascist.
In many European countries the Iraq war was MUCH more popular than the Kosovo war (not here though). The American left didn’t get upset about Kosovo because it was their President’s, the rest of the world’s left did.
It’ll be a lot of fun to watch the confusion of American lefties if Obama decides to pull a Kosovo and becomes The Next Hitler just as easily as Clinton and Bush did.
LikeLike
The thing about immigration is that it is really acting like people are that much different. You could replace 90 percent of all the jobs in us with immigrants. So yea you kind of need limits. Kind of like the managers I know that are like yea it’s great we can replace all these jobs for a lot cheaper. Then I am like yea sure that’s true. Don’t you think they could replace your ass too. In there mind somehow they are better than those lower people. In the reality a trained monkey can do most jobs. Now someone who creates the standards not as easy to replace. Someone who comes up with whole new ways of doing things to make things more efficient harder to replace. Someone who just follows the rulebook in place. Who can’t do that.
LikeLike
Seeking Alpha
You must be Jewish.
Well not must be, but sounds likely.
Which is fine. I just wish Jews would change their views on effectively hardly at all controlled mass immigration, including illegal immigration. If they flipped their pro vs con percentages tomorrow, that would transform our immigration policy within a year. Because of all their networked influence and often effective veto power over things they care deeply about, in the mass media, many lobbying groups, elite universities, Hollywood, and so on.
LikeLike
jaakkeli
jaakkeli
Great minds think alike. I’ve had much the same thoughts.
Though I think he’d get more of a pass by the Euro left than Clinton did, don’t you? Not a complete pass, but he is of African, third world extraction (by his own partial self identification) after all.
LikeLike
What I’m afraid so far from Obama is that he’s a great PR figurehead, much like the British Queen. We’ll see.
LikeLike
but he is of African, third world extraction
He’s a blanc African.
Baghdad today would look like Prague
That would require suspending belief in race realism.
LikeLike
That would require suspending belief in race realism.
The thing is, I’m not 100% sure what to think of the Arabs. In some ways, I think that if the Arabs and Turks were Christian, and better yet, if they spoke a Latin-derived language, they’d be considered white.
When I see photos from Iraq, a lot of those dudes look no different that guys you’d see in Poland, for example. In contrast, yo see a lot more African features among Egyptian or Sudanese Arabs, for obvious reasons.
Lebanese Christians, to go back to my original point, are completely Western. So in a way, there is still the great white hope among the fecund Arabs.
Some religious people believe that a great miracle of Muslims mass-converting to Christianity is going to happen. I can’t say that this would be a bad thing.
LikeLike
Though I think he’d get more of a pass by the Euro left than Clinton did, don’t you? Not a complete pass, but he is of African, third world extraction (by his own partial self identification) after all.
It can do that or it can be even worse, if he ends up seen as a race traitor (and bear in mind that eurolefties don’t really ever ask black opinion before declaring black people race traitors). Right now the highest level black politician in Europe must be Nyamko Sabuni, a Swedish cabinet member. She’s constantly under police protection as the Swedish far left wants her dead for crimes like crimes
– being black and campaigning against female genital mutilation (so she’s a traitor to authentic Africanness)
– being partly of Muslim background but still not being religious and being critical of conservative Islam (so she’s a traitor to Islam)
– being black and marrying a white man (so she’s a race traitor)
etc etc
Americans like to imagine that continental Europe is nutty multicultist because it’s so “PC”, but that’s not true. PC is more of an anglosphere thing. Continental multicultural nuttery is more about championing whatever is declared authentic tradition in the origin culture – sort of fascism by proxy.
LikeLike
I think that if the Arabs and Turks were Christian, and better yet, if they spoke a Latin-derived language, they’d be considered white.
From my perspective, the Turks could skate the boundaries of being white, and from what I’ve seen of the Lebanese, if you’re drunk enough, you’d think they were Israeli or Greek. As for the Iraqis, they look like perpetually tanned white people, but they’re still too dark to make it like the Turks.
Regardless, while the region’s IQ is nowhere near African lows*, short of European Union membership or more oil wealth being found, you’ll never see Prague in Iraq. You may walk away something like Mexico City or Sao Paolo (or hell, Istanbul) which isn’t too bad, but still below full blown white standards.
So in a way, there is still the great white hope among the fecund Arabs.
So your plan is to fight the Mestizos and Africans with the Arabs?
LikeLike
So your plan is to fight the Mestizos and Africans with the Arabs?
The great American plan: fight the black people with mestizo immigration, fight the mestizos with swarthy white immigration, fight the swarthy whites with Asian immigration.
David, why are you pro-PC when it’s obvious that
a) you’re thinking of the best interests of black people
b) lots of white Americans (left and right and often publically rabidly anti-racist) support immigration because it’s the only PC way to be anti-black
LikeLike
So your plan is to fight the Mestizos and Africans with the Arabs?
I don’t have any “plans” other than perhaps laughing as I see the white elite responsible for the current immigration mess get hoisted up lamp posts by their necks.
LikeLike
Right now the highest level black politician in Europe must be Nyamko Sabuni, a Swedish cabinet member.
The Swedes are obviously racist. They only let black Africans become cabinet members and not prime ministers.
IIRC, I suspect you’re right since Manuela Ramin-Osmundsen is no longer the Minister of Children and Equality Affairs in Norway, and Rama Yade is simply a Secretary of State of Foreign Affairs in France which is the virtual equivalent of Junior Minister.
Continental multicultural nuttery is more about championing whatever is declared authentic tradition in the origin culture – sort of fascism by proxy.
Oddly, the desire to bring back true authentic culture is what propped up every fascist regime in Europe during the 1930s and 40s. Mind you, I suspect that the far left is pro “authentic” African and Muslim out of white guilt based on stories of Europeans deeming other foreign (and conquered) cultures to be inferior. Still, somehow, I fail to see how one can be on the left, yet defend FGM or radical Islam without looking foolish. It’s one thing to be multicultural and accepting of others traditions and customs, but it’s another to simply allow people to do what they want when it inflicts on the basic principals of your society.
LikeLike
Still, somehow, I fail to see how one can be on the left, yet defend FGM or radical Islam without looking foolish.
That’s quite a contradiction, isn’t it?
My theory is that real feminists do not exist, other than among some organized lesbians. But feminism is useful to the Left as siege equipment in their dismantling of the traditional family; it’s then discarded when no longer needed.
LikeLike
David, why are you pro-PC when it’s obvious that
a) you’re thinking of the best interests of black people
b) lots of white Americans (left and right and often publically rabidly anti-racist) support immigration because it’s the only PC way to be anti-black
Remember, I’m in the “freak” category of being the child of black immigrants…
In regards to point A, I’ve always questioned the ability to sustain a large population of native born citizens that are racial different, have an antagonistic history with the dominant majority, and lives in poorer conditions than that majority. Yes, the average black person in the United States live better than their counterparts in Africa or the Caribbean and to a lesser extent, Europe. Yet, the comparison will always be between blacks in American versus whites in America. Thus, the task at hand is to figure out a way to make black people as rich as white people without yanking white people downward.
In regards to point B, I don’t know if that’s really the goal of the left in the United States. It reeks of a conspiracy theory instead of being a great grand plan. Mind you, I’m a sucker for whiter people since they’re the dominant class and their “black friend” and other liberal biases gives a sense of a safe harbour for someone like me, and the secret elitist desires to become “glorious” lurk long and hard in me.
LikeLike
Thus, the task at hand is to figure out a way to make black people as rich as white people without yanking white people downward.
How about if black people stop worrying about white people and mind their own business. I’m not rich, and yet somehow I’m not worried about Jews or Asians or whoever beign wealtheir than I am.
LikeLike
Mind you, I suspect that the far left is pro “authentic” African and Muslim out of white guilt based on stories of Europeans deeming other foreign (and conquered) cultures to be inferior.
Nope. They do this for white authoritarian cultures as well. Finland has lots of Russians and the far left loves the “Putin youths” just as much as it loves Islamists. Not that it’s not entertaining – I just went to see a super super nutty spectacle of Russian ultranationalists and pan-Slavists, Taliban-level Islamists and the Finnish far left demonstrating together against “fascism” this week and then watched the lefties argue on TV that it should be punishable russophobic hate speech to claim that Russians imposed communism on Eastern Europe by force.
That’s by people who are not considered legally insane – just ordinary university lecturers and the like. The modern intellectual left is all about championing whatever authoritarian cult they can find as long as it’s not a cult of the local majority.
It also works with Western minorities, eg. Swedes in Finland. They can even be racialist and demand genetic tests to stop blacks and browns from Sweden claiming to be Swedish here. Those people are only viewed as a bit silly, not pariahs. That’s even though the Swedish minority is the only part of the population with a history of racialist thought…
Still, somehow, I fail to see how one can be on the left, yet defend FGM or radical Islam without looking foolish.
I fail to see how you can be right, left or space alien and defend FGM without looking foolish, but what can we do? Speak about this and the slander campaign leaves you forever out of good jobs. Today’s news was that the most popular political blogger in the country is being charged with hate speech and blasphemy against Islam.
(Yes, blasphemy is illegal. The ancient law wasn’t really enforced until they decided to multiculturalize the law.)
LikeLike
In regards to point B, I don’t know if that’s really the goal of the left in the United States. It reeks of a conspiracy theory instead of being a great grand plan.
Not conspiracy, just one of the hidden motivations. People always have them and often they refuse to admit them even to themselves.
This is a game forum. We should all know this stuff. People will intuit whether a development is good for them or not and then rationalize it in PC ways, especially the left-liberal personalities (and the left-liberal gender). If a woman states aloud that she’s dating a guy because he has money people will be horrified even if it’s utterly obvious. There’s supposed to be a PC platitude about his sense of humour or something. Everyone can know the truth and not say it aloud. If you state it, it’s clear that you’re “planning”, that you have a secret agenda. That’s bad. Going with “feelings” and not even admitting to yourself how much the money means to you is good.
PC is very much about demanding that decisions be based on feelings rather than vocalized reasoning. In immigration discussions most people make their decisions on intuition like whether the places they visit or live in are getting “worse”. To state aloud that a place is getting better because disliked minority A is getting less important thanks to less disliked minority B is horrible thinking and SWPL taboo, but to just feel that immigration is good is not horrible or taboo.
LikeLike
jaakkeli
The way it would work here is that the non black left would let Obama go either way on female mutilation in Africa, with some resistance to opposing opposing it, because the US position, not very vigorously pursued as a sop to feminists but also our religious, has been to oppose it. Though the more I see Obama in office the more I think his book was prophetic and that he’s going pretty far left, and once he has a breather from crises he’s going to go pretty darn far as a “race man”. I think it’s going to be very hard for anyone except a marginalized right especially on this issue to much oppose Obama on race related issues, except maybe if he really starting goring black sacred and fatted calfs like affirmative action, which he won’t remotely do. Quite the opposite I fear.
As for Anglosphere PC being different, or rather that leftism on the continent doesn’t have exactly the same PC flavor, yeah I know. But the core is the same isn’t it? Except it does seem that continental feminism, south of Sweden and maybe Denmark (don’t know, it is Scandinavian), is as extreme or is as hard to challenge or resist around the edges. While other kinds of leftism including multiculturalism and certainly green religiosity seem worse and even more naive than our official leftist / PC positions. But school me.
LikeLike
I’m with PA: the only way to make this any better is a civil war, which we may or may not get. Blacks and SWPLs on one side against real people on the other.
LikeLike
Today, I wonder why all those really smart guys back then propping up the mortgage brokerage business on phantom assumptions couldn’t see the sleeziness in what they were doing like I could after only a half hour inside the business. Or maybe they did and didn’t care
Correct!
LikeLike
I think that a strong argument can be made that FGM has always been a scheme carried out by the matriarchial component of N. African/Kurdish/etc. societies that practice it. On some level, western females get what is really going on and sympathize.
It is generally done by women and wherever it occurs it is applied without exception. It is hard to see how it could be a male preference – it not something that would apeal to every man (or any, for that matter). No one will admit it, but FGM is a way for stay at home moms to cripple their competition. Like the Burka and similar things, men are not to put in contact with free spirited, hot looking, sexually avid young women. Not if the lumpy, worn-out-from-7-kids matriarchs can help it.
LikeLike
PA:
Really, PA?
Think about the ’93 WTC bombing, or about … yeah, that one. Now, think about that happening in just about every place of major importance to the American government and economy.
There are way too many of them on our soil right now. That would get really ugly, really fast.
Think what would happen in Southern California and Arizona if we decided to pull a “reverse Aztlan” and take over Mexico. And unlike Mexicans, Saudis and Kuwaitis have access to explosives training and unbelievable amounts of terror-friendly financing.
LikeLike
Ever notice how the Patriarchal cultures of Asia have high savings rates, but the woman-indulging countries of the West (really the Anglosphere here) have consumption-based economies?
Its well known that men are savers and women are spenders. Supplication ruins our economy and keeps us weak and in debt.
LikeLike
There are way too many of them on our soil right now.
87: my contention is that the Muslims on our soil would only be as troublesome as the powers that be let them.
Think of another instance when U.S. Government took over a territory — the 1960s annexation of the South by the federal government.
Where were all those Rebel Yell guerillas blowing up skyscrapers? Where was all the social unrest from Houston to Atlanta?
There hardly was any. Because every major American power faction was ‘on board’ with their “Civil Rights” revolution, it went pretty smoothly, and all opposition was crushed and marginalized utterly. How many Congressional caucases does the Klan have?
That was the whole idea behind my original question: the US Government is virtually omnipotent, and any failures it encounters (Vietnam, Iraq insurgency) is not a credit to their opponent but a result of internal Left-Right power struggles.
Which leads me to believe that if it really wanted to just grab the Saudi oil fields, it would do so with the greatest of ease. And the angry muslims on our soil? They’d have as much to say about it as the Southern man did about the takeover of Dixie.
LikeLike
Because there are still multiple countries with nukes and not a perfect anti missle system (yet). When that happens. Yea the circle will be complete.
LikeLike
PA —
Yeah PA but the same can be said really of the governments of Europe except when facing any major external military threat: formerly and still principally Russia, and in the future potentially Iran or some coalition of Muslim states, or conceivably a Turkey pissed off about being excluded or more likely endlessly put off from joining the EU.
No of course the constituent states of the EU are not a real military power; for that they have relied on the US (largely for free – what’s wrong with us) though NATO. That is potentially a perilous position to be in, though they’ve calculated correctly that for ideological or even more historical reasons the US is unlikely to fundamentally abandon that protector role anytime soon without a lot of prior warning. Let’s leave that aside for now ok?
What I wanted to get at is that the “weakness of the West” or the “suicidal slide” of the West is really down to one thing and one thing only, and that is exactly what you said above, writ large generally over the entirely of the West. To quote the key bit again:
It’s the cold civil war that the Left everywhere in the most advanced and prosperous West is constantly waging against the success of it’s own states and existing cultural identity, pride and societal power. This culturally Marxist left everywhere in the rich West 1) serves as a fifth column allowing outside guerrilla or terrorist or other hostile outside forces to act often with so little consequence against Western states due to so much leftist demanded restraint; and 2) promotes the interests of women and less capable minorities at the expense of the males of the founder ethnicities within various western societies, and at the expense of social cohesion and stable families or even family formation among founder groups.
This isn’t just happening in America, or in the rest of the Anglosphere, although it may be worst in these most PC societies. It’s happening too in Holland, Germany and elsewhere. I’m not as sure about Southern Europe, though they certainly have their own problems, just not quite as widespread a leftist created PC consensus on what must not be questioned by anyone respectable, so far as I can tell.
You can blame it on the whole societies in as much as the right and center in Western countries so reliably fails over the long run to stand up against the Leftist driven erosion of Western power and influence and ultimately success in the world, but it’s all and everywhere driven by the cultural Marxism of the post fifties Left.
LikeLike
The Right is just as bad as the Left. At least the Left isn’t religious.
I hope it all burns to the ground with economic collapse, lost wars and an unstable government.
LikeLike
“Japan is universally one of the best liked countries in the world. The United States is one of the most hated ones.
Two things that Japan doesn’t do, and the US does:
– invade the world
– invite the world”
The reason japan doesn’t invade the world is that they tried it before and the USA nuked their asses.
LikeLike
Mark in Ark
No it is not, not remotely. I for one am not religious. Roissy is not. Most of the “realist” anythings are not. (Gender realism, race realism, etc.) Most quasi or whatever libertarians are not, or anyway their religion doesn’t much inform their politics if they are.
That little formula of yours is of course a trope of the left that’s thrown out to those on in the center or who are loosely in their fold but deeply disillusioned by all the leftist PC orthodoxy.
it’s a way to shield yourself from arguments.
It would be challenge for the modern right to be worse than a cluster of semi religious beliefs, i.e. modern leftism derived from cultural Marxism, which is causing the West to commit suicide.
LikeLike
“At least the Left isn’t religious.”
Ha ha. The left is HIGHLY religious. Their very dogma (global warming, AA, etc) is their religion. Unbelievers are scorned as heretics. News outlets such as the NY Times represent their holy books and leftist bloggers are their preachers/prophets.
LikeLike
Hi.
My PC worked slowly, many errors. Help me, please to fix buggs on my computer.
I used Windows XP.
Thanks,
Slenueannuala
LikeLike