The rankings of the ten girls from last Friday’s post are in, and the results, as expected, are pretty much in line with the general concept that men by and large share a surprisingly similar perception of what constitutes female beauty along the 1 to 10 scale. If a woman had two scores that were within 20 votes of each other, I gave her a two number ranking.
Woman Readers’ Score My Score
(a) TBG’s asian 10 6 5
(b) wino 9,8 8
(c) Rain And’s Mom 7 7
(d) fur smile 9,8 9
(e) red beret 2 2
(f) heavy wool skirt 3 3
(g) IOI 10 10
(h) chocolate fry 5 6
(i) schnoz 1 1
(j) chipmunk 4 4
A few thoughts:
There was more agreement on the 4s, 5s, and 6s than I predicted. Obviously, I chose this category well.
There was more variability/less agreement at the upper end of the scale, and firmer agreement at the bottom end. This was intentional. In the first installment of “Female Beauty 1 To 10” I stacked the deck in favor of strong contenders for the 8, 9, and 10 spots by using such world beating hotties like Alizee, Sophie Marceau, and Monica Bellucci. This time I made an effort to fill the upper slots with plausible girls. That is, girls you might have a chance of seeing in your daily life from one week to the next. Naturally, “daily life” 10s in most locales excluding fashion districts and playgrounds of the rich and famous are not going to be as hot on average as supermodel/celebrity/actress 10s. Truly superb specimens of female pulchritude don’t stay in general circulation for long. Hence, the greater difficulty in finding a round-the-way girl who could qualify as a bonafide 10.
As one commenter astutely noted, TBG’s asian 10 looks like what the future sexbots will look like. Doable, but also a little bit “off”. Perhaps this is because it is easier to model an Asian’s face as they have flat, nondescript features compared to other races. And their skin is smoother, facilitating a realistic transference to high tech plasticine. The voting also confirms that TBG has no taste and is probably a woman impersonating a man impersonating a woman.
Throwing in a couple girls from different races didn’t seem to affect the voting much. This is a point in favor of the hypothesis that macro beauty standards tend toward universality.
Chipmunk looks nothing like Schnoz. Not even if they were the same woman separated by 30 years. Some of you need Lasik. But since the conspiracy theories will continue to fly, I chose those two randomly off the internet. If they are the same woman taken at different times then that would be a ridiculous coincidence.
For those of you (women and Peter) who were saying “Oh, red beret woman just needs to lose the glasses and she’ll look better” or “If heavy wool skirt girl just lost 15 pounds…” or “If schnoz fixed her hair and used some skin lotion she’d be an attractive woman”, all I have to say is:
BETA PLEASE!
You are so full of shit you must actually believe the nonsense you write.
In the future, I plan to do a “1 to 10” post with another race — all Asian or all black. And maybe a NSFW post with just naked bodies minus the attached faces, to see if your ratings of women’s bodies corresponds with facial beauty. I’ve always suspected that, despite the uncommon butterface phenomenon, hot bodies are normally paired with hot faces. Most of the time you can safely approach a girl from behind if her ass is round and she has a slender hourglass shape and lustrous hair — her face will not disappoint.
I will also change the ranking system in future installments to allow you to vote any way you like. I’ll continue choosing candidates according to my personal 1 – 10 rank ordering just to see if, given the looser rules, your voting still matches up with mine.
Evil Easter Egg
Rain And’s Mom was not the Evil Easter Egg, though I can see why some of you thought that. It *is* pretty evil to put someone’s younger-version Mom up for the ultimate judgement and then to demonstrate by the voting that thousands of men would like to bang said Mom in every available hole and splooge on her face for the cum de grace. The Subprime Splooge of a Thousand Betas. Who said romance was dead?
It took a while, but after an impressive cooperative effort the discovery was made. (I think commenter benjack was the first to stumble on it.) The Evil Easter Egg was IOI girl. Yes, the girl you all ranked as a 10 is… 14 years old. She is a Polish model who was kicked out of a fashion show last summer for being underage.
You sick pervs. How does it feel knowing that you imagined kissing, fondling… face fucking… a 14 year old girl? That you chubbed out to a bubble gum teen? We’re all Aqualung now.
First!
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And maybe a NSFW post with just naked bodies minus the attached faces, to see if your ratings of women’s bodies corresponds with facial beauty.
If you did that post, you know what feature I would focus on.
Peter
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IOI girl’s face is hideously asymmetrical. Look at her eyes. They’re way off!
Something went wrong in the womb. 10 my ass.
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— And maybe a NSFW post
One request, please don’t put NSFW images directly on your main page. Maybe hide them behind a link.
— Truly superb specimens of female pulchritude don’t stay in general circulation for long. Hence, the greater difficulty in finding a round-the-way girl who could qualify as a bonafide 10.
My o m e g a male friend Ace is spending some time on the western side of the Appalachian highlands and reports that there is virtually nothing but true fuggs there: 2’s and 3’s abound, mostly skewed that way due to obesity. No 5’s through 9’s whatsoever, he says. The fat tsunami swept them all out to sea.
But – and this is unlike anything you’d encounter in metro Baltimore/Washington region, he says — in every little town, in just about every little convenience store, he will see a 10.
To make sure it is in fact a 10 and not an 8.5, or maybe just a 6 with sex appeal, or merely a thin girl in a sea of fatties, I made sure to ask him: a true 10? Hypnotically radiant face, can’t stop looking at her?
Yes, he confirmed.
I asked, though I knew my question is unnecessary, as his taste is discerning. Even back in high school when we tried to fix him up with some mousy little fattie for kicks, he’d protest “No, dammit! I have standards!”
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In the interest of science can you post the number of votes, average, and standard distribution, just to see how closely everyone voted.
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I had IOI girl as an 8 – the gap in her teeth bugged me, and she doesn’t exude sex to me the way wino and fur smile do.
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IOI girl is not a ten. She seems androgynous. You can just tell she has a boyish non-sexy body. Not sure her face is really that beautiful…its just child-like. I’d take Fur Smile or Wino McFaketits over her anyday.
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This is all nice and well, and my votes were in line with everyone else’s, but the scale is just fucked up.
As others noted, you need to know what percentile a girl is supposed to be if she were a 10, a 9, etc.
My own system is linear, and that has worked quite well for me. I usually go for 7+ but could do the occasional 6 or 5 when out of other options, or drunk.
But for me, a 7 means, if I take a walk down the street, 7 out of 10 women would look worse, and 2 would look better than her. Granted, this is not in the U.S. In DC, where I’ve lived for a few years, a different scale may need to apply.
But still, assigning a rating based purely on your own perception defeats the purpose, there needs to be some universally accepted metric, maybe the one I use, but one people can agree on, and compare ratings. Otherwise, it’s ridiculous, lots of guys here rated wino (fake boobs blonde)a 7 or an 8, but if you take a walk you would hardly see one in 100 girls look better than her!
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I still like wino better than IOI and fur smile. =)
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“Chipmunk looks nothing like Schnoz”
Their NOSES were the exact same shape, and I was looking for that “evil” easter egg, its all I had to go on. I didn’t think about the possibility you’d put a teeny-bopper in there. I think I only rated the teenager a 7. I couldn’t look at that delicate face and imagine big tits for some reason (LOL).
————————————————————————
BUTTERFACE PHENOMENON
You will see more of that in the future. As women look for the “most alpha” of men, the genes that encode for an uptick in androgen receptor expression are going to be propagated more and more. Look at the most macho cultures like the Samoans. Very macho, large boned, naturally muscular men………………..very masculine women. Few delicate beauties there.
A “pretty boy” like Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, or Zac Efron with small-to-medium bone structures are the type of men who father the beautiful girls most often. Hulking hypermasculine men’s genes encode for offspring like
BRUCE WILLIS’ masculine-looking daughters (egad, what jawlines for girls to have).
Ive come to think that in terms of human reproduction, the same approaches that have allowed dog breeders to select for traits could come into play. You could pair larger, athletic butterface girls with slight pretty-boy beta males……and you might have a chance to come up with more attractive offspring.
If you pair a large alpha male with large Amazonian alpha female, you’ll likely make a first round draft pick male, but a fugly female that looks like a man (Billie Jean King anyone? pre-plastic surgery Greta Van Sustren?). Therefore its best to pair large muscular aggressive males with the most delicate of beauties to “even out” the offspring. Sure, it may backfire and his sons take after his mom somewhat (Reese Witherspoon’s male offspring might not be so imposing for instance), but at least his daughters stand a chance of being lithe and delicate.
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You sick pervs. How does it feel knowing that you imagined kissing, fondling… face fucking… a 14 year old girl?
Only dizzy gets all dizzy over this, but it’s important to note that almost none of the comments indicated this kind of imagining was very common for that pic. almost all of them were like: “Ok, she wins on a technicality, but I’m just not feeling it.” It was like she was a piece of architecture or a piano concerto or something:: aesthetically pleasing, but not inspiring an obvious chub.
The 8 and the 9 were almost exclusively the only two women people were letting their fuck fantasies go wild about. Pump and dumps free the sexual imagination.
Similarly, there were a lot of mild “I’d hit it” comments for Ma Rain, but the Girlfriend Effect was in high gear. It mindfucks men into suppressing their libido, lest they screw up a prime high-investment opportunity. So Ma Rain overwhelmingly got the “sweetest” most complementary comments in the thread.
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And, of course, I don’t believe for a second that the comments were so overwhelmingly altruistic out of politeness to Rain And. If anything the male urge to express dominance over other males through Momma Disrespect is a powerful force.
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the Girlfriend Effect was in high gear. It mindfucks men into suppressing their libido, lest they screw up a prime high-investment opportunity. So Ma Rain overwhelmingly got the “sweetest” most complementary comments in the thread
Well said. Similar to Bridge Girl last month, also a consensus-7, as I recall.
It seems that 7-girls are at that sweet intersection of attractiveness and good personality. This would probably represent a majority of women under 25, if not for the obesity epidemic.
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maybe a NSFW post with just naked bodies minus the attached faces, to see if your ratings of women’s bodies corresponds with facial beauty
While the facial beauty ratings mostly confirm what scientists have found over the years, this would actually be really interesting.
My guess is that there will be a correlation, since BMI is one of the key elements of what males find attractive, and it impacts both body shape and facial proportions. Plus, women who take care of themselves with makeup and fine clothing will also try to be in shape, shave their legs etc.
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Plus, women who take care of themselves with makeup and fine clothing will also try to be in shape, shave their legs etc.
Let’s hope that’s ALL they shave.
Peter
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moist underage teen pussy disgusts me
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Am I the only one who found fur smile nothing special？ A 7 for me.
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Hehe, lets just hope the reason the 14 year old girl got such high scores; is that this blog might have alot of underage lurkers.
Make an exteral “quiz” of sorts where we can fill some basic info of ourselves while we pass judgement?
All in the intrest of science ofc
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I’m not remotely disturbed by saying that Polish Girl was the most beautiful; since I’m not attracted to women. Maybe you should change your criteria to ‘sexiest’. I think a lot of the disagreement stems from this issue: not all men think beautiful and sexually attractive looks are exactly the same thing especially towards the high end of the scale.
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Some examples of “technically beautiful but zero sex appeal” women:
Jennifer Garner
Anne Hathaway
Basically, any girl who you could imagine taking the lead role in “Princess Diaries” or “30 Turning 13”. Women love these types of girls because they’re pretty but pose no sexual competition.
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OK, to try and quantify what I said above, I went through the last thread an coded comments on the women into three different categories: Quality, Asexual, and Fuckable. Here is how I did it::
If a comment did the following I coded it as Quality:: If a comment specifically singled out one of the females as beautiful, without making a sexual remark, it got coded. If a comment specifically noted or hinted a female looked like she would make a good girlfriend, it got coded. If a comment singled out a female for any positive non-sexual remark, it got coded.
If a comment did the following I coded it as Asexual:: If a comment specifically singled out one of the females as beautiful, but not fuckable it got coded.
If a comment did the following I coded it as Fuckable:: If a comment specifically singled out one of the females as beautiful in a sexual way, or with sexual innuendo it got coded. If a comment singled a female with any kind of sexual language or intent it got coded.
Here are the number of comments that singled out the following females as QUALITY::
Ma Rain – 24
Black – 5
Wino – 4
Asian – 3
Beret – 1
No other females singled out as QUALITY.
Here are the number of comments that singled out the following females as ASEXUAL::
IOI – 12
Wino – 1
No other females singled out as ASEXUAL.
Here are the number of comments that singled out the following females as FUCKABLE::
Wino – 11
Fur – 8
Ma Rain – 4
IOI – 3
Asia – 1
Black – 1
No other females singled out as FUCKABLE.
So the comment thread indicates that Ma Rain was most preferred as a wife and mother, and not highly preferred as a sex toy. But still more sexually preferred than the 10. IOI was most preferred as a magazine cover, but not at all preferred as a sex toy.
Wino and Fur were most preferred as sex toys. With Wino being the most balanced mix of fuck animal and girlfriend.. but weighted towards fuck animal.
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And here are the comment codings, for those nerds who care.
QUALITY
wino 11:27
asian 11:32
ma 11:43
black 11:45
asian 11:45
ma 11:55
ma 11:58
ma 11:59
asian 11:59
ma 11:59
ma 12:37
ma 1:03
ma 1:05
ma 1:27
ma 2:13
ma 2:12
wino 2:28
ma 2:42
black 2:42
wino 2:47
black 2:47
black 3:04
beret 3:23
ma 3:41
ma 3:44
ma 3:52
ma 4:03
wino 4:03
black 4:03
ma 6:04
ma 6:46
ma 12:41
ma 1:52
ma 8:42
ma 4:48
ma 9:52
ma 1:28
ASEXUAL
IOI 11:27
IOI 11:45
IOI 11:58
IOI 11:59
IOI 1:25
wino 1:25
IOI 3:10
IOI 4:03
IOI 8:42
IOI 2:16
IOI 2:52
IOI 4:48
IOI 11:55
FUCK
fur 11:45
wino 11:45
wino 11:58
wino 12:11
fur 12:21
fur 12:23
IOI 12:23
wino 12:23
ma 12:23
IOI 12:31
fur 1:05
wino 1:18
ma 1:25
black 1:25
fur 2:13
wino 2:32
wino 3:25
wino 3:52
fur 3:53
fur 4:03
asia 4:03
fur 6:46
wino 8:42
IOI 2:02
ma 3:49
ma 5:26
wino 2:52
wino 4:48
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IA __
Oh for god’s sake. If you’re so interested why don’t YOU do it? The raw data are right there as much for you as for Roissy. So make a contribution and do it.
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Roissy,
When you post the black and Asian galleries, it would be interesting to have respondents report their own race to see if an ethnocentric bias/preference emerges.
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“Am I the only one who found fur smile nothing special？ A 7 for me.”
Ditto.
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Roissy–
Wino/saki bottle girl and fur collar may have each received nearly the same number of votes as a 9 as a 10 considering only their within girl vote distributions, but wino/saki bottle did receive signicantly more nine votes than fur collar did. So wino/saki is the voter’s rank ordered 9 and fur collar it’s 8.
I’m quite surprised that you ranked aging mid thirties had faced fur collar above either of the pretty and youthful, Northeastern euro origins Saki girl or Rain’s mom. I do think Saki bottle was hurt by her insecure forced smile (at being photographed at that moment probably) and Rain’s mom was hurt by her plain looking and unsexy peasant garb, tending to make her seem plain as a number of commenters admitted. (Yeah men can see past clothes, but when they’re bad enough most can’t entirely. It costs some.) Saki bottle looks more confident, but it’s true rarely radiantly so, in the other pics posted of her on the nominating thread.
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If so, and without scouring the thread I’ll believe you, I didn’t notice it, perhaps in part because I don’t recognize him, and neither did others. That’s not what immediately started the tons of back and forth semi shocked kidding commentary, and then the collaborative scramble to find out who she is. That scramble was won by Mikkel in a fine bit of reverse image searching and extensive further detective work through dead ends sluthing.
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saki/wino has weak eyebrows. she’s already past her prime.
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Yes. And that self reporting needs to be anonymously on the poll to easily statistically assess it. Easiest way would be to have two voting columns. One for whites and Asians, the other for blacks.
That’s a bit problematic because it assumes that whites and Asians vote similarly. I actually think that’s true, though probably a bit less so for Asian girls alone – where I think Asians will for one thing show a lot of bias for their own Asian ethnicity. BTW I’m using Asians here to mean basically E.Asians. (In Britain domestically it basically means those South Asians, Indians, Pakistanis & Bangladeshis, by way of contrast.)
However these polls are html plug-ins. Whether one’s easily and readily exist for wordpress that have the features I’m talking about is another question.
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Of course there could be three columns, for the votes of whites, blacks and Asians. Now THAT plug-in might just be a bit of a challenge to find however.
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I for one would love to see a post about the butterface phenomenon.
I think I would have to agree that the a hot body tends to go along with a hot face but I would be curious to see the empirical results.
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Rain And —
Despite your, umm shall we say *special interest* re the girl in question, I think that’s very astute.
Everyone say her as high girlfriend potential. I can’t recall a single poster who say her as pump and dump material. And — even though I placed her rank order higher (8) that the group 7, 7’s are in real life the primo pump and dumps. Usually it’s 6’s, but 7’s are primo.
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Carl Sagan —
I believe that a hot face tends to go with a moderate hourglass figure, i.e. that 0.7 ratio of waist to hips and breasts that Roissy talks about.
However I don’t think it’s correlated with larger (natural) breasts or butt at all well. There may even be a negative correlation above 7’s or so.
I.e. most girls with GREAT tits and ass are likely to be 6’s or above. But few 9’s and 10s have really great tits and ass. Or an effect in that direction anyway, if not as extreme as I’ve put it for simplicity.
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I am reposting Rain and comments on account of shear coolness!
Rain And said:
OK, to try and quantify what I said above, I went through the last thread an coded comments on the women into three different categories: Quality, Asexual, and Fuckable. Here is how I did it::
If a comment did the following I coded it as Quality:: If a comment specifically singled out one of the females as beautiful, without making a sexual remark, it got coded. If a comment specifically noted or hinted a female looked like she would make a good girlfriend, it got coded. If a comment singled out a female for any positive non-sexual remark, it got coded.
If a comment did the following I coded it as Asexual:: If a comment specifically singled out one of the females as beautiful, but not fuckable it got coded.
If a comment did the following I coded it as Fuckable:: If a comment specifically singled out one of the females as beautiful in a sexual way, or with sexual innuendo it got coded. If a comment singled a female with any kind of sexual language or intent it got coded.
Here are the number of comments that singled out the following females as QUALITY::
Ma Rain – 24
Black – 5
Wino – 4
Asian – 3
Beret – 1
No other females singled out as QUALITY.
Here are the number of comments that singled out the following females as ASEXUAL::
IOI – 12
Wino – 1
No other females singled out as ASEXUAL.
Here are the number of comments that singled out the following females as FUCKABLE::
Wino – 11
Fur – 8
Ma Rain – 4
IOI – 3
Asia – 1
Black – 1
No other females singled out as FUCKABLE.
So the comment thread indicates that Ma Rain was most preferred as a wife and mother, and not highly preferred as a sex toy. But still more sexually preferred than the 10. IOI was most preferred as a magazine cover, but not at all preferred as a sex toy.
Wino and Fur were most preferred as sex toys. With Wino being the most balanced mix of fuck animal and girlfriend.. but weighted towards fuck animal.
End Rain and
I refuse to comment on such coolness.
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I think commenter benjack was the first to stumble on it.
Actually, I think I was the first to comment on her age, referring to her as “girl-child”.
And fair play to the posters here: most of them who mentioned her qualified that they found her objectively beautiful, but with zero sex appeal.
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general concept that men by and large share a surprisingly similar perception of what constitutes female beauty along the 1 to 10 scale.
But women make about a third of readers according to those stats you posted a while back. And telling them not to vote would be impossible to enforce.
Further analysis:
Taking celebrities out made it much more interesting.
I’m curious about you putting Fur Smile over Sake, do you she’s just think more pleasing aesthetically, or would you actually want to bang her more?
Chipmunk was on an island onto herself. Obviously more attractive than wool skirt but obviously less attractive than the Asian girl and “chocolate fry.” The choice between the Asian girl and “chocolate fry” is too me, a litmus test of whether you like Asian or black girls more.
And props to you, Roissy for giving “chocolate fry” a six. I thought she was super-cute enough that I gave her an eight.
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Statistics clearly aren’t Roissy’s strong suit. Very poor response size to begin with. And if you really want to do what he originally said:
“The idea behind this rather pleasurable exercise is to demonstrate the conformity of men’s attractiveness standards, even across races. I get a thrill up my leg by smashing cherished shibboleths like “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”, and I especially love watching people twist defensively in the face of stone cold reality as they vainly try to prop up their pretty lies.”
Then you’ll need a LOT more pictures from all sorts of races. Having less than total is pretty insignificant. Even if you aren’t a statistics person, just off common-sense it is really hard to prove anything.
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One area where it’s really hard for black girls to win out is hair. And hair, like skin, is fairly important. The Asian girl has soft, full-bodied, lustrous hair, while the black girl has that crispy, matte chemically straightened hair. That’s worse than braids or an afro, but those aren’t much better.
I’d bet the black girl has a superior body though. I can see my vote being reversed if it had been more of a body-shot rating.
I’d also say the Asian girl had finer, feminine facial features, but there is something a little sketchy about her face that resulted in a lot of “she’s a man, baby!” comments in the original thread. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but there’s something to that.
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Roissy–
clean up of typos / brain infarctions. make that:
Wino/saki bottle girl and fur collar may have each received nearly the same number of votes as a 9 as a 8 considering only their within girl vote distributions, but wino/saki bottle did receive a good number more nine votes than fur collar did. So wino/saki is the voter’s rank ordered 9 and fur collar it’s 8.
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The Easter Egg was Low calorie evil, if it was evil at all.
As all these posters notice, if there was a 1-10 rating for LTR, and a 1-10 rating for Banging and leaving, versus simple attractiveness you would get three different sets of results for the upper 5.
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As women look for the “most alpha” of men, the genes that encode for an uptick in androgen receptor expression are going to be propagated more and more.
Example: Sizable portion of Black Females.
Similarly, there were a lot of mild “I’d hit it” comments for Ma Rain, but the Girlfriend Effect was in high gear. It mindfucks men into suppressing their libido, lest they screw up a prime high-investment opportunity.
As I said, I suspect that the quality of photo amplifies the “grandmother” effect. For those of us on the younger side of the population, those older photos simply remind us of photos of our parents and grandparents. Even if we didn’t know that the girl was Rain’s mother, I suspect some of us would label her in a pretty unsexual way since it subconsciously reminds us of our older relatives.
I suspect Doug is immune since Doug is old enough to remember when those photos were of his friends…
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I don’t feel the least bit guilty about wanting to mate with the face of the 14-year old. the male impetus to bang every pretty face that looks to be of sexual maturity is the reason we’re a successful, thriving species. I therefore expect to be thanked for my sleaziness!
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Jerry —
It’s been done in social science. Several studies have been discussed and linked at GNXP for example. If you’re interest you could no doubt find by doing a goog site search there.
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ok, a pervy suggestion, but how about naked body/torso girlfriend photos next time from willing contributors?
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It doesn’t change the fact that Roissy’s “study” is clearly a mess.
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Big problems here, actually. Roissy, I’m disappointed.
* First, and most importantly, you required people to use each number from 1 to 10 once. This gives relative, not absolute, rankings.
Some posters, like me, ignored this directive, but most didn’t, so you got a sea of relative rankings.
This is of course exactly what you want: your “10”, who is NOT AT ALL a 10 in real life (are you fucking crazy?), is just prettier than the other girls you chose, none of whom is within shouting distance of 10 herself.
You stated that you’d chosen one each of 1 through 10 (ahead of time), but that’s just bad science. The kind championed by liberals and feminists.
Your sample consisted almost entirely of 6-7’s and 0-4’s.
—
* Second,
If you don’t realize that attractiveness and sex appeal are different, you are a moron. A solid plurality of the posters acknowledged her attractiveness but said she did nothing for them.
They are obviously not independent – any woman below 5 will have zero sex appeal – but there are 6-7’s who are irresistible, erection-charging fuck monsters, and there are 9-10’s who exude minimal sexuality/raw attraction.
For instance, it’s not like Marilyn Monroe and Dita Von Teese are objectively that attractive – there’s a reason you NEVER see them without makeup – but damned if you’ll find a man who wouldn’t want to fuck the hell out of them. Probably even David Alexander.
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Oh, and thirdly, we’ve all fantasized about face-fucking at least some 14 year olds, at least the ones who are full of sass and verve and already have women’s bodies.
To think we should feel “pervy” or ashamed of such fantasies – fantasies is another pretty lie.
I think this is Roissy’s point – that we should acknowledge this primitive part of male psychology, rather than trying to indoctrinate ourselves with the ridiculous canard that we shouldn’t feel attraction for any woman under 18 (or 21, or whatever).
He chose the wrong 14-year-old to make that point, though.
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missed a dash: should be
To think we should feel “pervy” or ashamed of such fantasies – fantasies – is another pretty lie.
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I disagree – I think Roissy’s study accomplished what it set out to. This isn’t a PhD thesis – it’s a WordPress blog. The fact is, an overwhelming majority of guys put ten girls in roughly the same order, twice now. There are some instances of variance where girls are so close that personal tastes make the difference, but overall, the results suggest that beauty is objective, not subjective.
The 1-10 rating system just leaves clear problems where everybody has his own conception of what “8” means in terms of what precisely makes a 7 versus an 8, and is an 8 around town different from an 8 in the movies, etc. That will never be settled until ANSI settles it with a fuckability scale. That’s not Roissy’s problem, though – these rankings do a fine job making his intended point.
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Added 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
(6 to 10) b d g c a h j f i e
(7 to 10) b g d c a h j i f e
(8 to 10) g b d c a h j i e f
(9 to 10) g b d c a i h j e f
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“Am I the only one who found fur smile nothing special？ A 7 for me”
No Spandrell, you are not the only one. She’s a 7 for me: Doable with no regrets but not remarkable.
And the teeny Polish: She’s a nine to me. However, in Roissy’s window of vote, I had to gave her a ten.
And yes, I’d like to fuck her in every hole (at least, untill I see a pretty though innocent child instead of the beautifull girl I see)… but her nose, but her nose…
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Rating Wino above Ma Rain seriously casts doubt on Roissy’s ability to “detect the tiniest differences in female facial morphology that separate genuine beauty from the less attractive amongst a crowd of humanity.”
That cleavage skews judgement like the gravity of massive objects warp space-time.
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“IOI was most preferred as a magazine cover, but not at all preferred as a sex toy.”
I wish I have a life long sex toy like the Polish teen.
Geez… she’s not a 10 but you WILL NOT find many women as handling as she. In this contest, she clearly won.
Get
Over
IT!!!!
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(10) 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
g b d c a i j h f e
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You should, for the sake of science, do a survey without the artificial relative attractiveness constraint. As many have pointed out; none in the last survey exceeded 8. Shovel face should have been a 4. You’ll get a better idea of actual standard deviations this way. Measuring the way you do, you’re just measuring clear cut relative attractiveness.
IMO, you’ll find standard deviations in score will be proportional to means in the low end and flat everywhere else.
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D got a solid 7 asian chick with fucked up eye super solid 6.
Man I love asian woman he he he.
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To add to Jerry’s constructive criticisms, it’s worth pointing out that this is in no way a statistically valid exercise.
The sample of men doing the exercise consist of people who were not randomly selected; i.e they self-selected to be here, both by reading this blog and by participating in the study, so they cannot be considered a valid sample of the overall population of men. Like the internet “polls” you see at websites like cnn.com, self-selection bias eliminates any chance of generalizing.
Now, even if we were to overlook these facts and for the sake of argument accept that this “study” shows something, there is a further problem with saying that this “proves” men view beauty in some measurably objective fashion – the participants are all likely part of Western and Western-influenced cultures that have inculcated similar ideas about beauty since childhood. The closest one could ever come to showing an objective appreciation of beauty would be to raise three sets of male babies in three different circumstances: one exposed only to hotties, another exposed only to uglies, and a third “control” exposed to everything. Then after 18 years you’d give them the same ranking test. If the men exposed to the uglies pick the pictures of the pretties more than the controls do, there’s your evidence. But even then, you can’t be 100% sure, because something else in their upbringing could be affecting them besides pure biology. Like being ripped from their mothers and raised in artificial conditions for 18 years.
Which is why we’ll never know if beauty is objective, because my proposed experiment, like most of the experiments that could tell us more definitive things about human nature, are unethical.
Social “science” is called a “soft” science for a reason. It’s the weakest of the sciences because it’s next to impossible to control all the confounding variables in any social experiment.
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Ma Rain is the most interesting and attractive of the bunch for me. She exudes playfulness and intelligence and has a very pleasing round head/face shape.
The Polish teeny leaves me cold. Looks like a brat, nostrils overexposed, exudes no sensuality.
Fur Smile also does nothing for me. Obviously healthy genetic material, good skin and teeth, but again no sensuality.
I’m not sure I understand roissy’s methodology. Instead, of taking the average of the votes, he reduced it to which rating was the most common? That’s very reductive.
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hate to lie to myself ok d got solid 8. My fucked up diagnal scew.
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87:: First, and most importantly, you required people to use each number from 1 to 10 once. This gives relative, not absolute, rankings.
Some posters, like me, ignored this directive, but most didn’t, so you got a sea of relative rankings.
I wish posters like you didn’t ignore the directive. It’s a shitty thing to do, and it fucks up the contest.
That said, we’ve been over the relative vs. absolute thing in many other threads. It would be interesting if we did this again but got to pick our own number for each picture.
Virgin@40:: . In this contest, she clearly won. Get Over IT!!!!
Get over what? I’m simply quantifying what people who voted said about their vote. They said she was technically the most beautiful, but didn’t make them feel horny. Not everybody said that, but most did. Perhaps the people who commented weren’t representative, but I think the burden of proof had shifted to you. Perhaps we could have another poll that allows people to rate the same woman on three dimensions: girlfriend potential, fuckability, and technical beauty. If we rated the same picture, IOI would probably get 6-8 on fuckability instead of 10.
Fabian:: The sample of men doing the exercise consist of people who were not randomly selected; i.e they self-selected to be here, both by reading this blog and by participating in the study, so they cannot be considered a valid sample of the overall population of men. Like the internet “polls” you see at websites like cnn.com, self-selection bias eliminates any chance of generalizing.
There are published studies that use Internet samples. Imperfect sampling does not invalidate conclusions. Better data invalidates conclusions.
And roissy doesn’t need to do studies with remote Amazonian tribes. Those studies have already been done, and they support that there is a nontrivial universal component to beauty. Studies with infants show the same thing. Infants look at pictures of women rated attractive longer than they look at pictures of women rated unattractive.
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“There are published studies that use Internet samples. Imperfect sampling does not invalidate conclusions. Better data invalidates conclusions.”
You’re right on the first sentence; so why do we have to deal with this mockery of a study? It would have been a better post (and not a waste of our time) if he just posted links to these. Imperfect sampling and a poorly thought out exercise may not invalidate conclusions but it doesn’t allow us to draw ANY conclusions. In a word, pointless.
Jerry
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“Throws a large trout hits jerry in the head”
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There are published studies galore that are CRAP. Don’t use the fact that something got published as a sole means of concluding it is good solid science. In my stint in graduate school, I was astounded at the number of professors who didn’t understand more than the basics about statistics, didn’t employ a statistician to evaluate and assist in their studies, yet designed experiments and published their results anyway. It should come as no surprise that the peer reviewers (other professors) frequently don’t know enough statistics to evaluate methodologies in papers they review. And this was in a biology program. It’s even worse in the social sciences.
So imperfect sampling CAN and DOES invalidate conclusions. When you do proper sampling you get better data – that’s my overarching point here.
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It was very interesting to watch the rankings and read the comments – it reinforces the point that the hottest (most sexually attractive) woman isn’t necessarily the women most men want to marry.
I also found it interesting that men do realize that how a woman dresses can make her more or less appealing. When men talk about how make-up/clothing doesn’t make a difference, I always find them a little clueless… for a perfect 10 it might not make a difference but for everyone else it can.
In high school, the popular girls were not exclusively the prettiest/hottest girls. Some were pretty with good clothes, others were average with good clothes. And many pretty girls who didn’t dress well were completely ignored by the school Alphas. These are the girls who are surprised when they start to get a lot of attention in college and beyond lol.
I also thought what Rain And did was awesome – I’ve seen something similar done when people analyze focus group comments. Very, very interesting results!
I didn’t vote, but I’m also a bit suprised that Roissy’s 9 is a girl who I frankly find kind of masculine looking? I mean she has a big smile and nice enough features but aside from that, she looks a little hard… perhaps she reminds Roissy of some one he really likes, or is especially his type in terms of coloring, etc. Or maybe her slight masculinity indicates a higher sex drive?
There’s an interesting study out there where they morphed the top actresses/models of today and compared it to a morphed photo of the top actresses/models of the 1950s or so. The beauty of today is very slightly more masculine looking than the one in the old days. Interesting to consider…
I also thought the blond girl with the sake bottle was hottest and the 14 year old who looks older is most beautiful, a 9 but not a 10 (her lips are not lush enough to make her a 10, in my opinion). And Rain And’s mom was indeed a beauty, seemed sweet and innocent.
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I was about to say that IOI was not a 10, til I read the easter egg, then I knew you were all tards.
She has a round face! You are falling for Nature’s tricks. The dilated pupes! The self-touching! The girls curls! Christ. Her eyes are too far apart. She could have snaggle teeth.
I would take Wino girl or French Fry below her over the rest. Wino is cute and innocent but not childish. Oh, and the rack. Good skin. Skinny arms. French Fry is classy.
Fake Fur is fake indeed. She is a New York whore that has swallowed more jizz than you have ever emitted. Fake smile. Fake tan.
I would take CheapMonk over Fur and IOI, cuz she is probably less of a sperm-spelunking slut, and might have a soul.
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lovelysexybeauty
As you probably saw if you read through most of the comments, as it sounds like you did, you and I very largely agree.
You have excellent taste indeed. 😉
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Mikkel —
LoL.
As well I was perfectly serious when I said that Sake looks submissive to me. I didn’t mean doormat submissive, though she could go there if encouraged in that direction which I never would do of course. She could be a whole lot of fun.
Ma Rain though looks like old school gold standard quality to me, in a very pretty verging on beautiful package. I’m talking through thick and thin, really, serious, kind of quality. Well MAYBE sake girl would get there too, Maybe. Quite sure about Ma Rain.
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I guess the question is rain and are your parents still together?
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Yes.
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So peoples perceptions seem to be reality Cool Your dad got lucky.
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Anyone here about the asteroid that just passed between the moon and earth. Wild
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Nah, Pa Rain is Quality too. At least looks and career-wise. Can’t say about Game-wise. Pa Rain is probably too much of a team player to be judged an Alpha.
Ma and Pa Rain were virgins when they married at 21. Rain And will be far from virgin when he marries at ___? Rain And will probably father a litter of defective autistic children with his broken old man sperm. He’d better find a healthy 18 year old to counter-balance his increasingly mutated germ cells. His current 22 year old girlfriend is starting to pass her sell-by date! But her pre-Rain virginity and all around Quality, makes Rain believe he should hold on to this one.
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Gunslingergregi
His dad would have had to have had a lot on the ball to get her. Raised as her mode of dress suggests she was, and as well her way or carrying herself and the confident mirth in her eyes suggests, she wasn’t looking for a motorcycle gang type of status either. Plus his dad chose wisely.
She also wasn’t raised in the US, and certainly not the US of the last couple of decades.
She also really loved her father and was close to him I bet, wasn’t she Rain?
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Rain And–
What did you do, go and find her in Belarus or someplace?
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dougjnn – lol that’s true! I had tried noting the most interesting comments with useful info. for girls like me who want to understand men better. Many/most of the ones on my list (until I gave up) were from you.
Rain And – your Dad did a good job landing your Mom! Sounds “Alpha” in that way at least… So I am surprised they are still married. Some of your comments on another post where you seemed to criticize me/my blog (if I remember correctly) made me think you were one of the “angry” guys who turns to Game partly because of unresolved issues with his parents’ divorce/unhappy marriage. So I was wrong… makes me rethink my perceptions a little.
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far from virgin
Please don’t take this as some sort of boast about my Game, by the way. I went to a fine arts college for 5 years and the sex was ridiculously free on tap. Weekends were rarely disappointing. M. Blowhard probably understands.
she wasn’t looking for a motorcycle gang type of status either.
Actually Pa Rain owned a little motorcycle shop when they got married! He’s moved on to other things.
She was raised in Pennsylvania, and I suppose she was pretty cool with her parents. We lived in Iowa, and only really went and visited them seven or eight times before he died when I was in Jr. High.
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What did you do, go and find her in Belarus or someplace?
I met her at her college when she was 19. I use the University library, because it has much superior books to the public library.
I was also her first kiss. She didn’t have a lot of free time during high school because she was a figure-skater. Life was basically classes, skate practice, homework. She had no social life, and didn’t have any close friends.
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Yeah, I gotta say fur smile is aight, I guess. I can’t possibly see her as a 10 or 9, though.
She reminds me of all these girls in NYC who were hot shit in high school and moved to the big city and still prance around like they’re 18 when already they are fading.
Roissy put it well once:
all those sharply dressed and tightly coifed yuppie chicks striding purposefully down city streets and in office buildings, Blackberries in hand and eyes cold as ice, just remember that each one of them possesses, in varying degrees of will to surrender, the capacity to submit her heart and her pussy to a violent thug.
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I would love to see a pic of pa Rain
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you all are a bunch of child molesters
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Not that it matters now, but wouldn’t the Polish 14-year-old “10” being a professional model exclude her, since this was supposed to be about people we’d see in everyday life? Anyway, this doesn’t seem like an accurate representation of where each woman stands in relation to other everyday women in general, just how they rank in relation to each other.
This was originally very interesting to me because I’ve been wondering where I stand on the 1-10 scale, but this lineup and the results are very frustrating. I actually found your last lineup to be more helpful because at least I fit somewhere (between Sophie and Monica). I’m more attractive than your everyday top 3 and I’ve met a few everyday women more attractive than me during visits to the city, so I think there’s something wrong with your selection (sorry if that’s obnoxious).
I wish I could upload a picture. I live in this isolated hamlet with a population below 200 and we have no computer store. I asked around but no one I know has a scanner or webcam. Then again, it might not even matter since I’m moving to Russia to live with my father soon, and the women I’ve seen during previous visits blow all of your selections from both lineups (other than Monica) out of the water.
You should do a 1-10 post focusing exclusively on Eastern European women.
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Fair enough, chic. I guess I can’t be the ultimate judge of Pa Rain.
mid-80sish.
mid-90sish.
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Query, Roissy: I’m not sure I follow why Rain And’s Mom was rated lower. To me, her face is a perfect blend between ranks 8 and 9 — exuding the sweet femininity and delicacy of 8 (without the strangely-disproportionate neck, boobs, and sake bottle. I feel like I’m looking at Alice in Wonderland just before she shrinks), with the exquisitely-groomed eyebrows and poise of 9 (minus the taut, soulless smile — el chief hit it on the nose).
ADDITIONALLY, at the time the photo was taken, she appeared relatively fit — slender, graceful appendages, no chub under the chin or hanging off the underside of her upper-arm. Although you have denied that current fashion has little to no effect on a woman’s attractiveness, I wonder if the obviously old-fashioned (and more conservative) style of Mother Rain and had an affect on her rating?
If she had been wearing something more like Wino, with her hair in a more current fashion, I would bet money she’d outclass Fur Smile, who is apparently your everyday 9.
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Roissy, you fail at statistics.
(c) Rain And’s Mom:
33% – 5/6
25% – 7
30% – 8/9
How is she objectively a 7?
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her beauty is pretty well centered around a mean of 7
if you look at her “beauty distribution” its pretty much a normal bell curve….therefore its pretty much objective.
one can objectively predict that a random guy will consider her a 7, plus or minus one gradient.
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sorry, she’s a mean of almost exactly 7 with standard deviation of 1.5…this means 67% of guys view her as between a 5.5 and 8.5.
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@ “Although you have denied that current fashion has little to no effect on a woman’s attractiveness, I wonder if the obviously old-fashioned (and more conservative) style of Mother Rain and had an affect on her rating?”
Clearly clothing, makeup, hairstyle and other volatile parameters of attractiveness (even the aesthetics of the photo itself) effect judgment.
For example a commenter said that he rated Ma Rain lower because of her hairstyle, which is obviously one of the most volatile – and therefore irrelevant – variables regarding beauty.
The higher ranking of Wino either suggests that people wouldn’t spot non-faked markers of genetic fitness if they punched them in the face or that the pump-and-dump contextualising takes over because of the overload of sexual cues.
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roissy
Taste is subjective, and I don’t set my preferences according to what everyone else thinks.
Jerry
Not suprising, since he’s trying to prove something that is not true.
RTC
Temperature is objective. Mass is objective. Beauty is subjective. There is not a single argument that could prove otherwise.
The 1-10 system is a numeric representation of what a person thinks about the attractiveness of another person. That’s it.
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@Chuck – If 33% think she’s 5/6 and 30% think she’s 8/9, you cannot say she’s judged as a 7 by most guys. Ignoring all votes on the extreme ends (1,2,3,4 and 10), you still get 63% rating her differently than 7.
Here’s an example. She meets a random guy. What’s the chance he’ll rate her at exactly 7? It’s only 25%. 3 out of 4 guys will rate her either lower or higher. I agree there is a trend, but it’s over the span of 5(!) different scores – 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. She’s much more likely to be a non-7 than a 7. The way Roissy presents the score (just a 7) is misleading. That’s just the average score.
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roissy
Taste is subjective, and I don’t set my preferences according to what everyone else thinks.
Jerry
Not suprising, since he’s trying to prove something that is not true.
RTC
Temperature is objective. Mass is objective. Beauty is subjective. There is not a single argument that could prove otherwise.
The 1-10 system is just a numeric representation of what a person thinks about the attractiveness of another person.
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For example a commenter said that he rated Ma Rain lower because of her hairstyle, which is obviously one of the most volatile – and therefore irrelevant – variables regarding beauty.
The higher ranking of Wino either suggests that people wouldn’t spot non-faked markers of genetic fitness if they punched them in the face or that the pump-and-dump contextualising takes over because of the overload of sexual cues.
I downchecked Ma Rain for hair and frumpy blouse relative to Wino with full awareness that Wino’s hair and chest were likely artificial. In my view, Wino would still be “genetically fit” (very hot) even if she didn’t have the artificial augmentation. Of course, all you can gauge based on one photograph is superficial hotness, and if it’s not the most flattering possible photo (as in Ma Rain’s case it was not) then them’s the breaks. I dare say if we had a pic of the young Ma Rain dressed to impress back in the day, she’d easily exceed Wino, but that’s not what we were given.
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you cannot say she’s judged as a 7 by most guys.. That’s just the average score.
A, roissy never said otherwise. The girls are ordered by their modal rating.
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Bill–
While I agree with you, I would also point out that mating with the face will not preserve the species.
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@Rain And – average rating means nothing. If you have a distribution like this:
10% – 2
10% – 3
10% – 4
10% – 5
10% – 6
10% – 7
10% – 8
10% – 9
10% – 10
It has an average and mean exactly of 6. Can you say the girls is a 6? No!
The votes for Rain And’s Mom are distributed over 5 different scores, you can’t just pick the average.
I’m actually not arguing about the general conclusion (beauty is objective), it’s just that this experiment was horribly designed. Next time get 10 chicks and take a picture (or several pictures) of each under identical conditions and post them for rating.
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Rain and, your dad is a goodlooking man. You must be a nice looking guy as well.
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Rain And at Roissy:
“Ma and Pa Rain were virgins when they married at 21. ”
Rain And at HalfSigma:
“My teen parents had a shot-gun marriage *and* were divorced by the time I was 1. On the other hand my mother did end up graduating with honors from an Ivy league school in a quantitative field.”
Posted by: Rain And | August 14, 2008 at 04:21 PM
http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/08/figure-out-a-persons-social-class-with-20-questions.html?cid=126432730#comment-126432730
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Ain’t that a bitch
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On a related note my coworker was just telling me about how his wife was the one who did all the paperwork to get the loan for their storage shed business they bought 2 years ago. I brought it up because may do similar thing. I was like got a good woman there huh. He said well uh then left. Then came back and said they were getting divorced. WTF
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Her idea.
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His blood sweat money that put the down payment on the business.
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Gunny —
I’ve had this idea, not new today reading you at all at all, that the experience of military married or engaged guys posted to Iraq with the fidelity or really lack thereof of their women back home (bearing in mind that many or most guys probably don’t want to know) is a good illustration of the huge slutification of American women.
Worthless feminist ideology made sluts.
Why should anyone defend them from rape, pillage and sex slavery? I’m completely serious.
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I’m a civilian otherwise wouldn’t have been here 4 years straight. Yea its a bitch. Lot of stories. Like coming back to empty houses. Why yea as anon was saying before about ideals. My woman got me for life. Talking about a 4 year long distance relationship as of march. I would say secret would be phone sex to keep it alive he he he. Or as one of the chicks who heard me talking to her put it. Someone said I was speaking another language. She said yea all he tells her is how much he wants her. Seems to work.
Maybe it is like the amount of people who get rich like 3 percent right. So those are people who can handle planning ahead and do not need instant gratification of all they earn. Maybe there’s only three percent who can live the ideal they aspire to be.
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oh, who couldn’t tell that IOI was underage? that’s why her eyes are so enormously outsizing her face.
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Pretty much all men want to make love to highschool girls, even as young as 13 if properly developed. Highschool girls easily get pregnant and deliver healthy babies as easy as twenty year olds and much better than thirtysomething women. And if Peter or David Alexander don’t agree with me they are probably fags. High ages of consent are a recent product of feminist indoctrination.
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[…] even come into your mind, it will help them rationalize why you are a better bet. (Here’s an example of how a guy rationalizes why his girlfriend wasn’t promiscuous in the past; this girl had a very unusual life before meeting […]
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Location bias is very interesting. You guys gave the black girl a 6. Living in Brazil, there dark skinned women are very commmon, I would rate her a 4, at most. Whereas the asian (not common where I live) would easily get a 6. Maybe 7 on a good day.
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Gotta agree with Gannon up there. Biologically, men should be attracted to anything that is at least pubescent, which could be as young as 11.
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