Case #1
I’m on a date with a girl from a small, poor Eastern European country. She used to live there as a little girl when it was still behind the Iron Curtain. After the Soviet Death Machine fell to pieces in 1989, she moved to the US and has been here ever since. I broke one of my cardinal rules and allowed her to get political on me.
ME: So you must have been pretty happy when the Soviet Union fell.
HER: Well, I wouldn’t say I was *happy*. More like, there were pros and cons. Universal health care was nice to have.
ME: [thinking to myself Oh christ, a commie sympathizer] Universal health care means a poor quality health system and long lines.
HER: Hey, you’re not one of those libertarians, are you?
Precious. Girls have balls these days to just blurt out whatever obnoxious thing enters their heads. They fear absolutely zero retaliation or consequence for their actions from men they date. Are men this desperate that we have bred an entire generation of ill-mannered bitches? I wondered what would have happened if we were talking about our careers and I had said something like “Hey, you’re not one of those lame nonprofit do-gooders, are you?” She would have huffed and cut the date short, going home to call all her friends to tell them what a jerk I was.
I decided the hell with it, and switched to Nuke the Pussy from Orbit game.
ME: Whatever I am, it’s probably 180 degrees the opposite of what you are.
HER: Well, who did you vote for?
ME: I didn’t vote.
HER: Whaat?! [looking shocked as if I had admitted to serial necrophilia] How could you not vote?
ME: Easy. I stayed home. Are you a Commie? What would you call yourself politically?
HER: I’m not Communist, but I would say I understand a lot of what they believe in. I’m more of a socialist. I like the free education and healthcare.
ME: You do realize that it’s not free? Everyone pays for it in burdensome tax rates.
HER: Well, Ok, it’s not technically free. But I think we should care for the people. It’s our responsibility to make sure no one suffers without health care.
ME: So why don’t you just pay for it with your own money instead of forcing people like me to subsidize your morality? [I was really beginning to enjoy myself. I noticed her body had stiffened]
HER: [getting torqued] Yes, I believe we all should contribute. It’s what’s best for society. You wouldn’t just let people die without help!
ME: It’s immoral to take my money away from me when I don’t want to give it. That makes you a dictator. Are you a totalitarian dictator?
HER: It’s not being a dictator to want to stop suffering. It’s basic decency.
ME: [sending a multi-warhead payload] I think it’s bad long term policy to prop up the poor and weak. The herd must be culled. Otherwise, they reproduce on my dime and drag everyone else down.
HER: People wouldn’t just die like that. They’d live in suffering, so you have to help them while they’re alive.
ME: [total war] Oh, they’d die. If all aid were stopped, the babies of poor and useless people would die before reaching their first birthdays.
This date ended without the close, but I have to report that despite my Nuke the Pussy game, there was a spark of electricity in her eyes. I bet not a single herb or SWPL had ever spoken to her like that before.
Case #2
I approached four sets. The first two sets I went in with casual game. This is where I make some innocuous but humorous comment about something situational, and let the chit chat move the interaction along into more fertile fields. For example:
ME: [after seeing a girl pick a piece of lint out of her girlfriend’s hair] You have excellent grooming skills. Guys would never do that for each other. We’d leave it in there and laugh at our friend all night.
HER: [smiling] Thanks, she would do the same for me.
Our conversation went back and forth like this for a minute, then died out. Friendly asexual vibe: 100%. Sexual tension: 0%. This was the kind of game that would have been more than adequate for my father’s generation, but today it means nothing. I did another set the same way with the same results. Then I switched gears to Asshole Game for the next set.
ME: [noticing her mode of dress and curling my mouth downward in reproval] I can’t believe you’re in here.
HER: What? What’s that supposed to mean?
ME: You should really be in Georgetown. This bar is a little too edgy for your type. Not that that’s a bad thing, but you know, I’m trying to save you any uncomfortable feelings being outside your element.
HER: That’s an asshole thing to say.
ME: Yup, I guess.
HER: And what exactly is my type?
ME: Prim and proper. Boring but dependable.
The conversation continued in this way for a while. She reacted with obviously faux indignation. But the results were much improved. Number close. Friendly asexual vibe: 0%. Sexual tension: 100%.
There is change in the air. The culture is shifting right under our feet. What I have noticed lately with more frequency is that I have to act like a dick to get anywhere with a girl, even the good girls. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, as my dick game is pretty good and I enjoy doing it. But it seems that only dick game can break through a girl’s perimeter defense to the pulpy, juicy center of animal desire.
It wasn’t always this way. Sure, there were sluts who were so inured to getting played by cads and assholes that they could only respond to asshole game. These girls used to be around 20% of the population back when I was in high school. Today, that number has risen. It’s closer to 60%, and in bars and clubs in the city it may as well be 100%. The sweetest girls who grew up in happy families with mom and dad still together are turning into little playettes with adamantium bitch shields. This change has picked up the pace in just the last year. It’s finally happening. The game is causing girls to adjust, and screen for the biggest most congruent assholes, in spite of their intentions to the contrary. It’s evolution, baby.
I cannot respect a girl who dances like a puppet to asshole game. She will get the worst of me.
A girl who openly defends communism.
I knew Obama was hell, but this…
I need to go buy a gun. Stat.
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Hey man . . . is what VK say true: Are you a French Canadian gay porn director?
Also, thanks for your great blog!
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Case 1 – Excellent. I have found that holding my philosophical right/libertarian frame, so long as it’s in a calm, bemused manner, creates attraction. I think it’s particularly effective since these modern lefty women are so used to men that fawn and agree with them in order to curry their favor. And it’s very easy to pull off, too as once a chick reveals herself to be a liberal, I tend to lose whatever attraction I had for her, which makes it easier for me to maintain my inner game.
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A lot of change in shields up just within the last year huh.
Does this correlate with more sluttiness overall, or just more shields up in response to more game?
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I love the culling remark to the first girl. That’s pretty rad. I’m actually surprised she took it as calmly as she did.
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Case #2
Casual Game is pretty flimsy. Unless you escalate sexual tension shortly after.
“What I have noticed lately with more frequency is that I have to act like a dick to get anywhere with a girl, even the good girls.”
This is very true. Being a complete “asshole” is not always necessary, but dissing and teasing is.
But then again that is called: Game.
Regionally speaking, Washington DC is the home of asshole Game. You really need it to survive there.
Especially if you are swooping on transplant 9-5 DC girls.
In sunnier climes, straight asshole Game is less necessary.
– MPM
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I was at a house party last month going through the motions with a cute 24 year old. When small talk turned to the poor economy, she decided to share with me that she couldn’t understand how celebrities and athletes can earn millions of dollars while poor people are suffering without jobs. I decided to discard my investment of game and disprove socialism for her. I began smiling when I noticed the sparkle visibly draining from her eyes.
It was immediately gratifying, but a doubt lingered in my mind later on. What had I actually accomplished? I had tried to fill an empty bucket with a single drop of knowledge. My salient points were barely registering with this girl, whose divorced mother makes $100K as a seasonal accountant. And her own job? Credit analyst at a big bank. Four years of business management courses at Seton Hall help refine her philosophy.
Asshole game is the most responsible course of action. Great post today.
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I have also had success with going nuclear on politics (the very thing we are told to always avoid). It had the same result (from “friends” to sexual tension).
I doubt that “pave-the-planet-and-burn-the-rainforest” game will become the next new thing. However, clubbing pretty lies to death can work as part of establishing dominance.
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I really enjoy being an asshole to bitches. If done right, it REALLY makes a bitch want to earn some time with your non-asshole character. Total shame but hey, bitches are fucking nuts. Ain’t nothin changing about that…
What’s my name fool?
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“It’s evolution, baby.”
Roissy, you must like Pearl Jam. Nice post.
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As a progressive, I have a serious, sincere question for libertarian types:
All U.S. citizens enjoy the benefits of the government, including national defense, social security, medicare, police/fire department, sanitation, etc. To enjoy these benefits, we all have to pay taxes. Otherwise, we live in anarchy.
Taxes are an immutable fact — even consumption taxes not based on income require that the gov’t take some part of your income (though based on your consumption).
Given that some level of taxation is necessary, the question is what level of taxation. Sure, one individual could “subsidize” another but it makes no sense for this person couldn’t afford it — that’s why the taxation is spread out diffusely across the populace. If someone making $50,000 is taxed $40,000, that person couldn’t live. But if 200 million citizens were taxed some small percentage, it is doable.
For those people who loathe “socialism”, would you give up services like police, fire, government, etc for a chance at no taxation?
My guess is that there are some services that you deem indispensable, like those listed above, and others you find wasteful or unfair, like certain welfare benefits or gov’t policies you disagree with. But this is a disagreement about policy and not taxation.
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G Manifesto
Any theory why?
Do you find this is true even in highly competitive summer clime places like LA?
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Case #1 is lame on both sides. I love this site, but I don’t understand why you told us about a stupid political conversation with a girl that went nowhere. Do you honestly believe that you’re the first person who’s talked to her like that? This is DC. One of the main things that sucks about it is that conversations like that happen thousands of times a day, and for some people it’s the closest thing to game people can come up with.
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two years from now, even asshole game won’t be enough, girls will have evolved to serial-killer game. a bitch won’t do the nasty until you’ve thrown her out a window once or twice.
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roissy
Universal healthcare has nothing to do with communism, and it isn’t automatically bad. I suggest you watch Frontline: Sick Around the World. I suppose you could also watch Sick Around America to see how crazy awesome your health care system is.
You don’t want to give the government any money, yet you expect to receive all the benefits that it provides? Do you think they have some magic lamp that they rub whenever they need money? Also, it is not inherently immoral for the authorities to take your money even if you don’t want to give it.
They aren’t good girls.
I have to double or triple post everything because the site is having problems processing my posts. They go into the system, but they won’t necessarily appear on the site (and if they do, it might take hours).
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Questionner: I don’t think most anti-socialists here (including myself) advocate doing away with taxes and indispensable services (police, etc.). That would be paleo-libertarianism, and I don’t come across too many commenters of that type, though there are some Randians here, with whom as a right-winger I disagree on tons of things.
Most anti-socialists, like you note, would rather do away with things like welfare because they are unfair in principle and create incentives for bigger problems in the future.
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I been using asshole game the entire time I’ve been deployed here in Kabul. There are hardly any fuckable women here. I work on a computer network, so I run around the whole complex. The fuckable chicks here, well, I’m a complete sarcastic asshole while almost all the other guys here are married or betas (yes, lots of dudes in the military that are not infantry are betas).
Aside from finding a suitable place to bang a chick out (three roomates in a box), this has become my entertainment. I’m just a regular old NCO with nothing but time to work on material.
I’ll be closing a navy girl soon. Will share a field report from the actual field.
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socialism doesn’t work.
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roissy: I was born in 89. How old is that chick (30?)? How old are you? Is that date right?
Also: You’re right, tokyo game always wins! (?!)
lurker: that definitely wasn’t a defense of communism, like she said. Wanting healthcare for all can be a sign she’s not an unfeeling bitch (seriously: you prefer a woman who’d agree with roissy and say ‘YES THE WEAK MUST DIE!!!’) It’s a knee jerk reaction for Americans to go ‘COMMIE?!’ and then not process further information anymore.
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Hey man . . . is what VK say true: Are you a French Canadian gay porn director?
100% true.
My guess is that there are some services that you deem indispensable, like those listed above,
federal government is best used to coordinate national defense and protect the territory upon which the free market operates. anything more is a move in the direction of less freedom.
Do you honestly believe that you’re the first person who’s talked to her like that?
yes.
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@ PA and Questioner
The problem is lumping together ‘social security’ with ‘police and fire’. The latter is indispensable. The former is not.
Police and fire are both very inexpensive and paid for out of local taxes.
Social security is extremely expensive and paid for out of national taxes.
That’s the big difference between the two. It’s not just a question of degrees of taxation but also who is doing the taxing. The more local the tax, the more accountable the taxer.
It’s much easier for an overspending educational board to be thrown out by the community than an overspending senator to be thrown out by the entire state.
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btw, i will point out that the foreign girl in case #1 was a masters degree holder. academia — spitting out our best and brightest, like a shitsludge of nonsense.
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“This was the kind of game that would have been more than
adequate for my father’s generation, but today it means nothing. ”
Yep.
You’ve come a long way, baby.
Now freed, to be treated like shit… and like it.
Even when I respond to women’s shit tests and outright rudeness with eye-rolling disinterest [because it now truly bores me], they even take that as some small conversational “victory”
Hell, is the absence of reason.
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All U.S. citizens enjoy the benefits of the government, including national defense, social security, medicare, police/fire department, sanitation, etc.
Let’s just say that a lot of what the government does, and charges me for, is of no benefit at all to me. Even “national defense” – what is the benefit to me of Iraq and Afghanistan, even if we “win”? I don’t expect social security or medicare to be around by the time I need them. By then, the boomers will have broken the system and it won’t be there for me. Cops, well, increasingly we see that the cops aren’t there for you when you need them. Thus, I’m paying for quite a bit of stuff that does me no good whatsoever.
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roissy
I cannot respect a girl who dances like a puppet to asshole game. She will get the worst of me.
Then YOU’re the puppet.
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Hey Questioner,
Appreciate your respectful tone of inquiry.
The answer, as PA also says, is not that libertarians desire social chaos and anarchy. Most libertarians support taxation for police, fire, emergency services, and armed forces.
It is stretching these definitions forever more liberally that we object to. Money for ambulances gets stretched into money for anti-smoking campaigns. Money for an army to protect the nation gets stretched into money for an endless occupation of some shithole in the Middle East.
There are other services that libertarians either support taxation for or don’t, depending on how centrist/right you are. For example, I’m not that far to the right, so I also support taxation for roads, research seed-money (for non-immediately profitable scientific advances… universities in other words), and general infrastructure like water and the power grid.
It’s not either-or… Obama’s not really a Stalinist. And libertarian’s aren’t really advocating anarchy.
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I’ll be closing a navy girl soon. Will share a field report from the actual field.
lol. looking forward to it. if it’s good i’ll make it a guest post.
for the record, i’m not a libertarian. it seems one of the qualifications of libertarianism is a renunciation of immutable human nature.
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On #1: No number close? Or humorous texted follow-through? As DefaultUser noted, that electricity in the eyes must have been a response to the dominance and frame established. I bet the next conversation, if there were to be one, would be easier to move into friendler territory. Was she an 8 or 9? I would have pressed on if so.
#2: A good girl in an edgy club? Already the stage is set for that kind of game to succeed. She wouldn’t have been there if she weren’t seeking some kind of excitement, novelty, or other unexpected experience – such as a**hole game — to lead her out of familiar-but-boring patterns. I wonder if this would work in different, more plain-vanilla setting, where chicks might not be seeking that. Also, was she an 8 or above?
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PA:
That’s what I thought. This leads to the questions of what is fair and what is sustainable/smart?
Is universal health care or education (K-12) fair? If it’s not fair, then is it good for our country to have excessive numbers of sick or uneducated citizens?
Is spending a $2 trillion on the war in Iraq fair? I guess it’s fair in the sense that the entire nation benefits from any accrued measure of security. But is it fair/smart for those Americans in, say, Kansas who have no real security threats, but are lacking in health and education services?
If there is a brother and a sister and the parents are thinking about how to spend money on them and the brother is in perfect condition and the sister has a congenital heart defect, should the money be spent equally?
If a white person and a black person who has slight lower test scores apply for college (let’s ignore the whites poverty class for right now), are they really starting from the same “starting line” if the black person comes from a family that could not accumulate capital because of institutional barriers? If the black person is given affirmative action, is it really in that person’s best longterm interests to know they he benefited from an affirmative action advantage.
I think it is these questions that I think about from the progressive side.
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I cannot wait to see what is necessary after Asshole Game plays out.
I don’t mind Asshole Game. It can be amusing, but I feel a little sorry for the girl. I do find it easier than high-brow cheeky game however.
Small town/country/church girls don’t need Asshole Game, but the city sluts sure do.
My main problem is finding things to tease girls about that I have just met. And it gets harder the hotter she is. I went out w a 9 actress this past weekend, and my game was pretty weak.
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Roissy said:
“it seems one of the qualifications of libertarianism is a renunciation of immutable human nature.”
How so?
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roissy
Your political commentary reminds me of my first husband; cold as ice. His (reptilian) brain was huge, but only the left half and NO I’m not a liberal.
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I already saw this coming. The game is changing.
On my campus women will not even respond to you sexually if you don’t giva a hint towards assholeness. If you have chit chat lil bullshit conversation, they’ll just assume your friendly and want some help with finding something.
The “Neg” as the opener is golden.
Roissy, you must elaborate more on this change, you may just be the first to really break it down.
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Dude what the fuck? I consider myself a libertarian, but your rationale for non-universal healthcare is fucking stupid.
“ME: [sending a multi-warhead payload] I think it’s bad long term policy to prop up the poor and weak. The herd must be culled. Otherwise, they reproduce on my dime and drag everyone else down.
HER: People wouldn’t just die like that. They’d live in suffering, so you have to help them while they’re alive.
ME: [total war] Oh, they’d die. If all aid were stopped, the babies of poor and useless people would die before reaching their first birthdays.”
The point of privatized health care is not to cull the herd and let all the poor, dumb, stupid people simply die, it’s to allow the industry to function like a market naturally will, which will allow for cheaper health care prices and higher quality coverage in the long run. Government meddling with any market, healthcare or otherwise, will almost always have the opposite effect. And, of course, universal health care would greatly reduce the incentive for incentive and medical advancement.
Of course, if you were just joking with her to get a rise out of her bleeding heart, then good job. However, I really hope you don’t oppose universal health care solely to be derisive and have some bizarre idea that privatized health care will actually stop the genetically unfit from reproducing.
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dougjnn
G Manifesto
In sunnier climes, straight asshole Game is less necessary.
“Any theory why?”
Not sure, I have simply found that to be the case from my “life’s work”: swooping mad fly girls.
“Do you find this is true even in highly competitive summer clime places like LA?”
Yes. DC is a meat grinder.
LA (despite its horrible set up, and general un-user friendliness) is simplistic by comparison.
– MPM
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Case 1.
If this would have been my date with a guy that believes politics should be discussed. I would have asked for the bill asap.
Case 2.
Asshole game doesn’t work in the long run, you will only create a decade of bad sex.
In the girl’s place i would be offended and walk away.
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Nice, they don’t expect it.
For general information, I have just discoverd scribd.com, I’m sure most have heard of it. But a large amount of pua stuff seems available on it, eg tylers ridiculously overpriced blueprint decoded
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4005371/TylerDurdanBlueprint
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“If you have chit chat lil bullshit conversation, they’ll just assume your friendly and want some help with finding something.”
It is simple Risk VS Reward.
“Casual Game” has very little risk involved, hence minimal reward.
You must embrace Risk.
Those who do, get all the rewards.
– MPM
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“Universal health care means a poor quality health system and long lines”
You’re a fucking idiot.
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To ‘The Questioner’, regarding taxes:
Milton Friedman identifies the four essential functions of federal government as follows: 1. maintaining sovereignty from foreign powers (national defense) 2. protecting individuals from abuse from other individuals 3. defining private property rights (and assigning liability) 4. upholding a judicial system to enact #2 and #3.
Police and fire departments somewhere under these categories. For “public goods” such as roads and parks, you can refer to municipal governments, where budgets can endure much further scrutiny. The cost of public school systems would be reflected in property taxes, which then enables some degree of efficient market – you can move somewhere else if the taxes get too high for your liking. Example: retirement communities will have lower overhead assigned to local school systems, thus lower taxes. Not ideal if you’re raising children though.
This is a loose libertarian feel for appropriation of tax revenue. There are plenty of specific policies that come at odds with this idealistic blueprint. The common aggravating theme you are encountering is that these special interests have come to overshadow the essentials, and our government is much less effective because it is spread far too thin.
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@Seeking Alpha,
Regarding what is indispenable or not, I suppose fire/police departments could be considered dispensable. We could just privatize them and then have citizens pay for local police services.
You make a good point about “all politics being local” — but regardless of whether taxes are paid out of local, state or national taxes, the fact remains that it ultimately comes out of your pocket. And if it hits your pocket book hard enough, you can vote out someone on even the senator or President level.
@Tarl,
I suspect this is the true motivation of most conservatives who oppose certain policies — how does it benefit me directly? Free trade benefits the entire country in terms of lower overall costs for many thing but this is probably little consolation to the relatively few autoworkers who were displaced.
@Master Dogen,
I think you’re on the same page as me. We understand the problem comes from disagreements about good policy. But what if 99% of the population disagrees with your point of view?
Anti-smoking campaigns could seem frivolous (maybe because you don’t smoke) but what if it could be proven that these campaigns directly led to reduction in smoking, which then led to lower health costs related to heart/emphysema?
I guess I just don’t like the extreme characterizations of public policy.
Republicans loved to throw out the “income redistribution” argument against Obama during the campaign, but ALL TAXATION is a form of income restribution. Was Eisenhower a socialist because his highest tax rate was 90%?
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I too appreciate your respectful tone of questioning. I can only respond briefly and off-the-cuff:
Universal healthcare: gives everyone very poor quality of care, and that care becomes progressively unavailable to everyone.
Reasons for that include poor incentives for smart people to study medicine. Also a lack of professional accountability, from the MD down to the receptionists in their treatment of the patient. It also results in unavailability of services, manifested in rationing and long wait times for treatment.
Also, it becomes a sclerotic bureaucracy. Free market helathcare is o fhighest quality and cheapest. Why does Lasik cost $500 while an E.D. visit for a sprained ankle $4K?
Education: K-12 needs to be kept on a local level to reflect the values and needs of the community.
Iraq War: I’m against it because I believe that proper military policy needs to be limited to defending our territorial integrity and lethal but limited punitive actions abroad where our vital interests are at stake.
Affirmative Action: I don’t get too worked up about it but I reject the premise of AA, which is that some groups are disadvantaged for social/historic/economic reasons.
On a general note, the key idea to keep in mind is that abstract political concepts don’t operate in a vacuum or generically among all human groups. Politics work as well as the subject-populations ethnic, cultural, and racial makeup lets them.
So some groups may do very well with Randian libertarianism, and others can be more successful with socialistic approaches. Which is why to me the cornerstone of successful and sustainable politics is ethno-cultural homogeneity.
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Whoa whoa whoa….
“On my campus women will not even respond to you sexually if you don’t giva a hint towards assholeness. If you have chit chat lil bullshit conversation, they’ll just assume your friendly and want some help with finding something.”
Giving a “hint” of assholishness and seeing women respond is not new at all. That’s tens of thousands of years old. That’s the whole point of game, schoolboy.
I’m open to the idea that in our particular society, right now, the remnants of patriarch-dictated behavior are finally being shredded and people (women in particular) are regressing to the evolutionary mean. But that hasn’t really been my experience (and I live in NYC, the other bitch capital of North America). I don’t know, maybe my head’s too far up my ass…
In general, I find warning of the “end is nigh!” variety to be suspiciously Christianist in a way that the ones sounding the alarm rarely realize. For some (Bible thumpers) it’s literal Armageddon and the Second Coming. For SWPL libs it’s Global Warming. For survivalists it’s Peak Oil. For some it’s the wave of non-white immigrants sowing Chaos and the Disintegration of society, outbreeding the productive races.
Many of these groups hate each other and consider the others to be straight-up nutso. What they often don’t realize is that they all share a single conceptual framework (which comes from the bible) for how history is working in our times: A fall from Grace, a corruption by Satan, and the coming catastrophe in which the wicked (and us all) will reap the consequences of our Sins. This story is so deeply embedded in our culture, that gets repeated and repeated, even by otherwise rational people who would never admit to a religious way of thinking.
The end-times are here? I’ll believe it when I see it.
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dogen:
How so?
see: open borders.
or: some are born to be uncompetitive in the free market, and will see no hope for themselves but to try and subvert it, ensuring a much worse system takes its place.
bik:
Asshole game doesn’t work in the long run, you will only create a decade of bad sex.
you’ve gotta be victorious in the short term to have a shot at competing in the long term.
hsv:
You’re a fucking idiot.
hit a nerve, seafighter?
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@ Cannon’s Canon,
Progressives may object to the use of Friedman’s principles (they certainly did at the University of Chicago), but if we assume them for the sake of discussion, I think there are many ways to include in #2, progressive ideology.
For example, to prevent the abuse of people’s rights, we need to ensure that everyone has adequate education and health. Presumably, these rights are covered in the basic rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
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roissy
#1 healthcare is not health care, it’s sickness care. The so-called healthcare systems knows zip about health. The woman is delusional if she imagines that a population having greater access to a the travesty known as “health care” is going to help people be healthier. The ones who don’t have access are better off. They’ll either find alternatives or die. Death is not such a bad thing! If you break a leg that’s one thing. You need it set and some pain pills, but otherwise traditional western medical doctors should be avoided like the plague.
#2 roissy your opinions are on a par with hers; equally stupid. If the health care system were really HEALTH care, that would be worth having access to. In a way, you’re unwittingly the more compassionate by wanting to deny poor people access to it.
#3, As far as asshole game is concerned? Asshole game is asshole game is asshole game and a pile of shit would smell as bad by any other name.
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Roissy:
Women ALWAYS want socialism and communism, the more the better, particularly if they are pretty. The prettier ones always want communism the most.
Because they win.
Communism, and communism-lite aka socialism, is nothing more than “Big Man” society where various Big Men who stay leaders for decades, dole out resources/money/power in a patronage scheme. It’s tailor made for pretty girls to become the mistresses of powerful men. Every woman’s dream now.
You should have called her on it as part of Asshole game. Causing shame and denoting your aggressive, cocky, no-BS attitude.
“You’re not part of those whacky Libertarians are you?”
“I have no politics, but I understand power and people.”
“What do you mean?”
“Universal health care means a skim off the top, for whatever cronies run it, then doling out to connected big shots. Joe Average gets whatever’s left. Great for pretty women though. They get to the big shot’s mistress.”
Pause.
“Say, you’re not Stalin’s ex-mistress are you?” [Said with a grin, teasing.]
“How could you say that!”
“Well, I didn’t think you were that kind of girl, but I wanted to make sure.”
You can go on teasing from there. Hit the buttons of “mistress” and so on associated with communism/socialism, playfully. It works because it’s true.
Critical: play Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca. Or Han Solo in “Star Wars.” Women love this. Whenever I’ve engaged my brain in this, I’ve done well playing this character, I generally play Bogart, but pick whoever you like. Bonus: the cynical, world-weary type plays well with women and allows you to assume a dominant social posture with them.
Everyone knows about powerful men and mistresses, and communism is the home of powerful men. You’re hitting her emotional buttons of wanting to be the bimbo of some powerful older guy. Which describes as you point out most girls/women today.
That’s why asshole game works. Because women want the most dominating asshole.
——————————
Questioner — women want a aristocratic, hiearchical, “royal” social structure where put in raw terms, they can sleep their way to the top. Women were not always like this, but that’s how they are now. It’s why women want two things:
1. Absolute sexual freedom and lack of any censure by anyone for sexual conduct.
2. Lots of government power creating powerful “Big Men” they can sleep with and be Monica to the guy’s Bill Clinton.
Women want power, the best way to power is through a society that creates a few big men and allows them to sleep with them, exercising power. It’s true for the Vampire fantasies and the “Sex and the City” master of the universe “Mr. Big” fantasies women have.
Men want “flat” or as level as possible social hierarchies, where they can move up on merit. Even if they are ugly, or not born rich, or not born connected, or not the son of a Senator, or Congressman, or Governor, or President. They want the ability to invent a new device, or become a famous entertainer, or even just a good provider and be able to attract women that way.
To do that they want the exact OPPOSITE of what women want:
A. Restrictions on “Big Men” having mistresses and women’s sexual behavior including shame and censure for having too much sex with too many men.
B. Flat, merit-based hierarchies where no guy gets so big he can hog all the women, or even more than one at a time.
Remember this about human nature: it’s based on zero-sum game at it’s most essential. There are only so many women and only so many attractive women. If the Big Man has ten hot women, nine men go without. If the Big Man uses and discards 25 hot women, twenty five men eventually end up with not a loving, faithful girlfriend who can become their lifelong wife, but a used sex toy with all the value therein.
THIS, rather than the overlay of Left-Right, Libertarian-Socialist, explains politics. Pretty much all of it.
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see: open borders.
or: some are born to be uncompetitive in the free market, and will see no hope for themselves but to try and subvert it, ensuring a much worse system takes its place.
Very few people are uncompetitive in the free market. Except for the mentally handicapped, even a low IQ person can do manual labor.
As a libertarian, I don’t think a Mexican immigrant is just as capable of doing my job as I am.
I think that he will be able to build my house cheaper, which means I can spend more of my money on other things.
I think that he lets a local contractor afford to hire a larger crew and become upper middle class owning a working class company.
Me and PA or me and you may disagree about the cultural or economic benefits / disadvantages of open borders, but neither of us tries to renounce immutable human nature.
You’re better than throwing up weak strawmen. That’s a liberal move.
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SA: not to get into the immigration thing (as I’m getting into it anyway) but do you discount the likelihood of these immigrants, when past a critical number, voting as an effective block against the kind of free market arrangements that you prefer?
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Master Dogen:
” “it seems one of the qualifications of libertarianism is a renunciation of immutable human nature.”
How so?”
Even the name “libertarianism” alludes to a hands-off mentality. Under this ideal, the physically strong come to hold disproportional power. Human nature includes greed, lust, sloth, and wrath. In a perfect world, everyone would “just get along.” That image is a pretty lie. The government must have strong enough influence over its citizens to hold these tendencies in check. Fundamental libertarianism doesn’t always allow for this.
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@ Questioner
For example, to prevent the abuse of people’s rights, we need to ensure that everyone has adequate education and health. Presumably, these rights are covered in the basic rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
You’re refering (albeit indirectly and accidentally) to FDR’s “Second Bill of Rights”
The trouble with those ‘rights’ is who decides what is ‘adequate’. Obama proposes free K-12 + college in his state of the union. Is college a basic pre-requisite for an ‘adequate’ education? There are plenty of people without college degrees who go on to be successful. There are plenty of people without high school diplomas who go on to be successful.
Success is determined by ambition and intelligence – not education. But because some amorphous intelligentsia has determined that ‘everyone’ needs a college education, MY hard work is going to pay for some poor kid’s college degree in Gender Studies or Environmental Studies, when he could have lived a happy, productive, and free life without it.
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tylers ridiculously overpriced blueprint decoded
You mean Tyler’s ridiculously bloated, overlong Blueprint Decoded. Blueprint has some really good stuff in it, but it has waaaaay too much filler.
For the record, overall I think RSD has the best PUA videos out there. Foundations is particularly good. But Blueprint is not up to the level of previous products.
Lovedrop’s compendium of Tyler Durden articles is absolutely essential.
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whiskey
Women ALWAYS want socialism and communism, the more the better, particularly if they are pretty. The prettier ones always want communism the most.
Generalizations abound. On the other hand, since women are becoming more and more like men (more left brained and less right brained) your statement is probably false unless you’re talking about liberal feminine women.
My opinion is probably rare (like me, a rare diamond); I don’t have “health” care insurance; don’t need it, don’t want it. I cut my finger and had to go the emergency room; got it taken care of and they charged me half price and let me make four payments because I DON’T have health insurance. The dentist gave me a 50% discount the other day, because I DON’T have dental coverage. It pays more to not have it. I have “saved” thousands by not having it.
I loved this movie: It’s up 18% in popularity this week. 🙂
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118901/
I’m on my soapbox because prescription drugs and well meaning doctors kill and maim more people than all the wars put together.
Roissy, you were right to avoid the stupid twatl but it was no great loss on her part either.
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Master Dogen,
I meant asshole hints have to already be implied within at least 1 minute after the initial approach. Thats why I said the neg as the opener is golden.
Of course some assholeness has to be applied during gaming a women, but now a days it needs to be applied almost as soon if not, as soon as you meet her.
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@PA – I do think that’s unlikely. And we can discuss that, but my point to Roissy was that just because I don’t think all Mexicans are lazy parasitic communists, doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the immutable forces of human nature.
In fact if anything, I believe in them more strongly.
I believe in the human drive to eat, procreate, raise a family and be successful. I believe this is, to some degree, an inherent drive in all humans.
However, a welfare state allows you to achieve, at least the first three, without a job. That’s the problem.
If there was no welfare, no social security, no public health care, then the only help available would be the basic subsistence offered by private charities. And I don’t imagine immigrants would be move to America just to stand in line at a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter.
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Bhetti, my love, are you insane?
“lurker: that definitely wasn’t a defense of communism, like she said.”
—communism always is a code word for dictatorships, murder, and death. She actually said it was a “trade off.” Because universal heathcare is worth being in constant fear of being thrown into a reeducation camp?
“Wanting healthcare for all can be a sign she’s not an unfeeling bitch”
–wanting healthcare for all is about not feeling guilty. She doesn’t give a shit about others, she just wants to not be seen as a bad person.
“(seriously: you prefer a woman who’d agree with roissy and say ‘YES THE WEAK MUST DIE!!!’)”
–I like a woman who says, “If they want it, go out and buy it themselves.” or “I’ll go donate money toa charity, I won’t force you to do it.”
“It’s a knee jerk reaction for Americans to go ‘COMMIE?!’ and then not process further information anymore.”
—Its an inhuman reaction to defend communism under the “universal healthcare” or “everyone learns to read there” rubric.
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I suspect this is the true motivation of most conservatives who oppose certain policies — how does it benefit me directly? Free trade benefits the entire country in terms of lower overall costs for many thing but this is probably little consolation to the relatively few autoworkers who were displaced.
Since you asked me what I get for my money – what services I would give up and what services I consider indispensable – I didn’t see any other way to approach it besides “how does it benefit me directly”.
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Any woman who discusses politics is an idiot. Most of them have tiny little oxytocin-poisoned brains and see the gubbermink as their substitute husband.
Exception: Russian chicks who tell me it’s awesome when Babushkas and Skinheads break up the Moscow gay pride parades. Met another one of them the other night, and was duly impressed. I mean, I don’t necessarily agree, but the old world values indicate a whole lot of other awesomeness which is the exact opposite of SWPL harpies.
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Anyway, I have the same question as Bhetti – how old was chick #1? She has to be in her late 30s if she was politically aware in the 1980s and thus remembers “good and bad things” about the pre-1989 regime.
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Russian chicks who tell me it’s awesome when Babushkas and Skinheads break up the Moscow gay pride parades.
Lol! Gotta love some of the smarter eastern European women.
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#1 is a meaningless drone who creates nothing, which is why she is for universal healthcare. Only producers would pay for it, while her ghetto-bred shithead fuckbuddy would get free needles and diabetic insulin so she could get banged by him while he begs and robs people.
Women depress me.
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The Questioner:
“For example, to prevent the abuse of people’s rights, we need to ensure that everyone has adequate education and health. Presumably, these rights are covered in the basic rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”
Here is where this becomes a problem. Assuming that individuals have different capacities for health and intelligence (which is not particularly controversial), you would then require your government to set the bar for minimum levels of acceptability. How much extra money do you spend on the education of a dumb child to get him to the base level of a naturally gifted child, since this is now part of his constitutional right? What experimental treatments will you provide to every single terminal patient, care of the government, in an effort to preserve their “right” to healthy life? By setting minimum levels, you remove the ability to make case-specific decisions. That is why education and welfare do not fall under Friedman’s second category.
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Lurker: then may Lupo’s Russioan chicks give you a spark of hope.
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o prevent the abuse of people’s rights, we need to ensure that everyone has adequate education and health.
Assumes what it sets out to prove – that education and health are a “right” (and also that the gov’t should pay for them).
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@ Seeking Alpha,
You’re right, I didn’t mean to suggest that the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness were constitutionally defined.
And you’re right that the fundamental disagreement between liberals and conservatives is what is adequate. I think progressives have a more expansive definition, but this is just relatively speaking.
There are many who would argue that success is driven not only by ambition and intelligence but also luck, background factors, timing, family, etc. Not that Malcolm Gladwell is the best source but his book Outliers is entirely premised on this notion. He has a chapter on how Bill Gates became successful not only because of his innate intelligence but because he happened to live next to one of the two supercomputer facilities existing in the U.S. in the 1960s (which he did programming at daily as a kid). This chapter also shows that most of the successful computer industry folks were born in the range of 1953-1955, which suggests that it’s not just intelligence but access to resources and opportunities that led to extraordinary success.
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You are right that women expect to act any way they want with no repercussions. And they get the losers to defend them. “Don’t say that to a woman” “How dare you call a woman fat”
Surrounded by fags.
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We let girls have political opinions now? How cute!
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Thursday
RSD?
Got a link?
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The Questioner
There are many who would argue that success is driven not only by ambition and intelligence but also luck, background factors, timing, family, etc.
There is no doubt that those things help. But it’s impossible to level that playing field. My parents were born working class, worked hard their whole life, and were able to afford a good private school for me for high school and college.
To level the playing field there are only two options.
Give every poor kid access to those same private schools (which would be too expensive to be possible) or force every rich kid to attend crappy public schools. Which one of those sounds fair? Neither to me.
My point wasn’t that there aren’t other factors that help. My point is that if you are born poor in this country, all you need is intelligence and ambition to become rich. You don’t NEED anything else to become rich. Of course connections, education, luck, etc. help. But they are not necessary.
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Should have asked her what she thinks of rent control.
Far as I can tell, universal health care of the sort proposed by your average lefty is merely its medical equivalent.
Though admittedly I’m sympathetic to arguments that the government is already balls-deep in healthcare and that a formalized marriage of medicine and government would at least be a little more honest. They’re fucking each other plenty as it is.
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Funniest picture Ive seen all week:
“Women are dicks” —–LOL, that photo……. : )
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seeking civil firing line debate:
Very few people are uncompetitive in the free market. Except for the mentally handicapped, even a low IQ person can do manual labor.
what matters is relative competitiveness. a manual laborer in a country of well-paid college educated professionals may be able to find his niche, but he won’t be happy where he is. he will attempt to rig the system to take from his betters.
Me and PA or me and you may disagree about the cultural or economic benefits / disadvantages of open borders, but neither of us tries to renounce immutable human nature.
why are libertarians so willfully ignorant of externalities?
tarl:
Anyway, I have the same question as Bhetti – how old was chick #1?
she was late 20s.
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lurker: Hmm, I’m seeing how you can get that but from my reading it was ‘I like the concepts of “free” education/healthcare but not the other stuff’. I may be painting a positive picture here, especially seeing as how you’d think she’d have a different perspective if she saw the cons firsthand.
Lupo: oxytocin? They’re giving birth and being constantly stimulated in certain areas all the time? Even though men are the ones known for the high libidos, it’s these women who’re ‘poisoned’ by a “poisonous hormone” of apparently constant orgasm/arousal? I’m just punishing you for a throwaway insult you didn’t bother thinking about.
We don’t know if she started this political discussion off and I would’ve thought roissy would’ve led her where he wanted to go (did you, roissy?). As it is, it looks like he started it and he pursued the topic.
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he will attempt to rig the system to take from his betters.
That’s funny… all the contractors I know are Republicans.
a manual laborer in a country of well-paid college educated professionals may be able to find his niche, but he won’t be happy where he is.
Only SWPLs can be happy in America? Someone needs to get out of DC.
why are libertarians so willfully ignorant of externalities?
I know snark is your calling card, but it gets in your way. I’m well aware of the existence of externalities. I disagree about whether they outweigh benefits.
None of this has anything to do with ‘immutable human behavior’. You’re dropping shopworn hollow platitudes in place of real reasons. Any threat to the pretty lies of your ideology make you reflexively angry and defensive.
That which we fight, we are destined to become?
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“”””””””Seeking Alpha,
As a libertarian, I don’t think a Mexican immigrant is just as capable of doing my job as I am.””””””””””
Except that they are people just like you. Except if they take over your particular industry they will close out your children from working there because they take care of their own unlike you.
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Anyway, HHHY is right– the usual motivation for opposition to universal healthcare isn’t some sort of crude social Darwinism, but the observation that these kinds of programs create stagnation and eventually cut services out from under from the very people they were supposed to help.
Late 20s, eh?
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roissy ignores me. My questions don’t matter unless someone else asks them. I’m going to go cry pathetically into my pink furry pillow now.
You’re so mean.
PS: Free next Saturday? I can fly up to DC and send you pics.
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Yeah cheers thursday, just found that compendium.
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Bhetti, thankfully, you have shown me once again that my love is not misplaced:
“I may be painting a positive picture here, especially seeing as how you’d think she’d have a different perspective if she saw the cons firsthand.”
–exactly. She calls it a tradeoff, as if the advantages of communism could have ever outweighed the disadvantages. She is clearly saying that communism is “equal” to our system.
If she was late 20s, roissy, she is too young to have known the disadvantages, sicne she was a mere child, and a child has no grasp of reality. When I was a kid, we lived on Section 8 housing, and I thought we had the best of everything–except we couldn’t, for some strange reason, afford a nintendo. or new clothes.
She is merely caught up in the SWPL “free healthcare” meme that, much like global warming, has no basis in reality outside of anecdotal evidence or bad data.
That, and the desire, like I said, to have her ghetto boys take care of her at my expense.
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Except that they are people just like you. Except if they take over your particular industry they will close out your children from working there because they take care of their own unlike you.
Why unlike me? I got my job through family connections and I’d gladly help other members of my family get jobs in my industry. You’re really stretching to make your argument work.
Now I agree, I don’t particularly care about the landscaper or construction worker who wanted to get paid three times as much as the Mexican immigrant. But then the smart ones just started their own business and hired a bunch of cheap Mexican labor. Meanwhile me and my family (who I’m looking out for) all get cheaper services.
I do admit though, I have no compassion for someone lazy, poor and stupid that I’m not related to.
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Bhetti, you would forsake me for Roissy? FOR SHAME!
I am in NYC. send pics and fly up to me. I thought you were in merry olde England?
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of course, as a caveat, The soviet system wasn’t communism per se, but extreme socialism heading towards communism.
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And they wouldn’t take over my industry because I – like Roissy and PA – believe in the immutable human factors like IQ which would preclude them as a group from dominating a high IQ profession.
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I do believe anyone can make it. Now hopefully yea you can teach your kids how to beat the system. Wierd to me is there are only 2.9 million millionaires in North America now that boggles my mind. Because yea anyone should be able to do it. But only around one percent do.
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Gunslingergregi
I do believe anyone can make it.
That’s liberal nonsense. Not anyone can make it. Anyone who is smart and ambitious can make it. Most people are stupid and lazy, or at best average intelligence and work only hard enough to live comfortably.
And that’s there choice. Some people would rather not put in the extra hours to be rich. And some people could never be rich no matter how hard they worked because they aren’t smart enough. That’s just the way it works.
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Sara —
You missed my point. Both men and women seek to rig the system for outcomes that benefit them. Even a Monica Lewinsky (no raving beauty) can be the mistress of a powerful man, and enjoy it (she didn’t pursue Clinton for his male beauty and physique).
This is pretty much all women. A few exceptions, but that’s the rule. It’s why women almost to a woman defended both Lewinsky and Clinton. They viewed both highly favorably.
Lewinsky, Chandra Levy, and many mistresses of powerful political figures are “smart” in that they are college educated, highly ambitious, and so on. Carrie in Sex and the City also fits that bill.
The more “liberated” a woman is, the more she is likely to favor this type of arrangement. It’s obvious: she gets power and control.
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Whiskey,your analysis is deeply flawed.Every social system,political regime,or economic model has a hierarchy replete with “big men.”A rich banker or industrialist can monopolize woman just as effectively as a minister of state or party strong-man.Inequality is a part of the natural order.Its a fact of life.
Women are lefties because the left has gone out of its way to court them,offering all kinds of benefits that are not as vulgarly advertized by more traditional hierarchies.The left has bid high for female support,and females ever the mercenaries,have responded accordingly.
The Italian philosopher Giulio Evola wrote:”power is the measure of freedom.”It is because would-be critics of the current regime do not understand power and its workings that the left,with females in tow,have won the upper hand.
Learning to wield power(Game=sexual power,Machiavellianism=political power) should begin to improve circumstances.
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I certainly don’t think women are adapting to Game. Less than 1% of the male population has moderate competence at practicing Game. This is not going to change very fast, as far too many men are still oblivious/unbelieving about Game, and among those who know about Game, too many cannot do approaches.
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Remember, there’s nearly 4,000 years of accumulated wisdom underlying these teachings.
1. Sex is like air. It’s not that important unless you aren’t getting any.
2. Always remember you’re unique. Just like everyone else.
3. Never test the depth of the water with both feet.
4. If you think nobody cares whether you’re alive or dead, try missing a couple of mortgage payments.
5. Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you’re a mile away and you have their shoes..
6. If at first you don’t succeed, skydiving is not for you.
7. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
8. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably well worth it.
9. If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything.
10. Some days you are the bug; some days you are the windscreen.
11. Good judgment comes from bad experience … and most of that comes from bad judgment.
12. A closed mouth gathers no foot.
13. There are two excellent theories for arguing with women. Neither one works.
14. Generally speaking, you aren’t learning much when your lips are moving.
15. Experience is something you don’t get until just after you need it.
16. We are born naked, wet and hungry, and get slapped on our ass … then things just keep getting worse.
17. Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
Those are almost as funny as that picture…………
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Regarding women and leftism – it is more about urban single women.
If you look at the voting stats in 2008 and 2004, married women with kids voted more Republican than single, unmarried men.
That is why Sarah Palin has such a huge following among married women with kids, who are not from big cities.
It is true that the left is courting women with a lot of goodies. However, this will also alienate women with families, the small number of women with impressive careers, etc. Also, when Islam starts making massive inroads into US urban areas, then urban single women will start to get scared, and turn against multi-culti leftism.
The leftist civil war between feminists/gays and the multi-culti leftists/Islamists will be fun to watch.
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lurker is a fucking jew beta. ass raped
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As I have said before, gaining MODERATE competence in Game is worth having about $2 million in assets.
$2 million goes further in a smaller city than in NY or SF. The same is true for Game.
Furthermore, Game is tax free, and no one can steal it from you.
Now, knowing the value of MODERATE competence in Game, what are you waiting for? Go master it. It is a far better use of your time than staying late at the office in the hopes of a promotion 2 years hence, or worse yet, watching TV.
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“If you look at the voting stats in 2008 and 2004, married women with kids voted more Republican than single, unmarried men.”
Tood,Republicans are just as liberal as Democrats.Dont be fooled,either by politicians,or their close cousins,females.
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You know, too, it could be that you are changing, Roissy, and not that you are a static entity recording for the ages, coldly and without prejudice, the changes of a whole culture around you, and then accurately extrapolating the fate of the nation on the basis of your impressions.
😉
But it’s always more fun to think it’s everyone else’s fault.
Guys don’t check out my chest anymore. Wah. 😦
Fifteen years and five kids ago, guys were different and better.
I mean, just walking around in a t-shirt was more than enough in my mother’s day! Today it means nothing to these sexless herbs.
Friendly asexual vibe, sure, but nobody was lining up to get my phone number. Fuckers.
Sure, 20 percent of dudes back in the day couldn’t get it up for anything less than Pam Anderson, but these days you’ve got to look like a real slut to get any play.
So I switched gears, went for the Confirmed Slut game. Put on the pushup bra and paraded around with nothing else on but a pair of hot pants and a whole shitload of eyeliner.
That finally got me some attention.
America is fucked!!!! I hate men.
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Roissy said :
“This change has picked up the pace in just the last year. ”
This is partly because these bitches were expecting the election of Obama and departure of Bush to cause magical changes to happen. All poverty, war, disease, and conservatism was to be eliminated.
But now that Obama has not worked left-wing miracles, and is actually continuing most of Bush’s tactics in the WoT, many of these women are quite bitter and cynical now.
I think that is why this has happened at this time.
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I think the bias towards favoring social justice, equity in outcome, and opportunity for all is developmentally _NORMAL_ in the values of a younger adult. It’s a vestige of childhood and demanding “fairness” as in “that’s not fair”.
Not until we understand the crippled mindset of the welfare class or the reality of high marginal income tax rates, do we understand the benefits of capitalism in motivating the best in people.
A few healthcare principles:
–anything that is free is wasted and trashed, including one’s health.
–insurance company incentives are not aligned with patient incentives. Insurance companies bring nothing to the table other than “denial of services.”
–choosing a method of payment is trivial compared to choosing what we will pay for. Someone must lead the discussion of end-of-life expenditures and the cost of defensive practices to avoid jackpot payouts.
–“Rationing” is a useful term. Lets use it.
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Women=whores:
http://www.dabagirls.com/2009/04/01/fast-times-at-wall-street-high/
Never get married.
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omw at 3:13 above.
My sentiments as well. I’m smiling.
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And they wouldn’t take over my industry
they will TAX your industry. And transfer those taxes to them.
Not anyone can make it. Anyone who is smart and ambitious can make it.
Now you said something true.
When I fisrt started reading Roissy and Roosh I couldn’t believe when they said american girls are such harpies. Specially Roosh, who is a brazilian supremacist for all that matters. The only girls in mylife that tried to have a political discussion where the ugliest of the ugly in the lunatic left. Even moderately attractive leftist girls abstained from political discussion in the presence of men they were sexually interested.
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“”””OMW
So I switched gears, went for the Confirmed Slut game. Put on the pushup bra and paraded around with nothing else on but a pair of hot pants and a whole shitload of eyeliner. “”””””””‘
omfg
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they will TAX your industry. And transfer those taxes to them.
Fortunately capital is mobile. I’ll happily follow my company to Mayfair, Sydney, or wherever else it goes.
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“””””””””on April 6, 2009 at 3:14 pm Tood
Roissy said :
“This change has picked up the pace in just the last year. ”
This is partly because these bitches were expecting the election of Obama and departure of Bush to cause magical changes to happen. All poverty, war, disease, and conservatism was to be eliminated. “”””””””
Lol yea wait till they send a 100k of contractors home.
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One major problem with leftist women—heck all leftists–is their undying belief in any complaint a ghetto (read: black) person tells them.
I once had to watch a video of a black prisoner who started a prison riot. It took the entire swat team to bust through the mass of mayhem he started–prisoners fighting, piss and shit on the walls and grown, broken furniture, blood, etc..
They wrestled him to the ground, cuffed him, and then picked him up.
He looked clearly and directly at the camera, and then suddenly went limp, and 2 guards had to catch him (he was standing with no one touching him with his hands cuffed behind him).
Get this : the prisoner was suing them for injuring him. His evidence? His pretend fainting. That’s it.
Natrually, the judge (a woman) signed off on the suit being viable and got some lawyers from our firm on board.
After the tape, I nearly cracked up. But the other 3 lefty lawyers—2 women and a man–all had deadly serious faces.
“Wow, those cops were out of line. Poor guy.”
Did I mention this guy was a convicted murderer and leader of the Bloods?
Thankfully, the jury ruled against us.
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OMW said:
…So I switched gears, went for the Confirmed Slut game. Put on the pushup bra and paraded around with nothing else on but a pair of hot pants and a whole shitload of eyeliner…
Bring it on! 😉
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Fortunately capital is mobile
Not so much as you think. The future in America do looks like Brazil now. Massive taxation of the white productive class leadind to mass tax-evasion. But if you keep a low profile, register your businesses in someone else’s name, don’t piss off any big shot, rest assured you will have long and peaceful life .
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That is the sad part it won’t take very many leaving the us to have a serious fucking problem. These “american” companies are not really owned by “america” anymore. So see yea your multinational won’t even have to be headquartered in new york or houston when it could just as easily be headquartered in Dubai. Thing is though do you really want your people to make 400 a month for 84 hours of work a week with no vacation. It will be much harder to get ahead of the game then. But that is where my theory of family better fucking man up and work together to carve out a piece of the pie for themselves.
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lurker: I think what ‘kkk’ may be incoherently (and antisemetically?) saying is that your declarations of love do not compare to roissy’s hawt jerk factor. Classic mistake, man, I feel for you 😉
Serious business, though: Was actually invited to go to US for Easter holidays (Spring Break?) with a relative but my docs mean that I have to pay $131, fill out this form and go to an interview in the scary-as-hell, ‘we don’t allow those fob security keys that let you get into your flat into our building’ US embassy. All with no guarantee of it being done on time or even accepted seeing as how they’re due to expire. Have to plan well in advance…
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Bhetti, alas, you break my heart. 😉
We call it Spring Break, since any mention of christian holidays is hated here.
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lurker: I WOULD NEVER betray you for two Parisians.
I hate the French.
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“”””””Seeking Alpha,
That’s liberal nonsense. Not anyone can make it. Anyone who is smart and ambitious can make it. Most people are stupid and lazy, or at best average intelligence and work only hard enough to live comfortably.”””
I don’t know if it takes that much intelligence. Ambition yea I will agree. My woman doesn’t have any real education. I mean I guess she was smart enough to get me but she still was able to achieve financial independance with the money I gave her. Just copied other people she watched successful model. She saw people who did things a certain way become successful. She followed suit and surprise became successful. Me shit I am smart and tried to reinvent the wheel lol. I failed like a mutherfucker. So now I am just going to go ahead and copy someone elses shit to be financially independant. Too easy now.
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PAThat would be paleo-libertarianism, and I don’t come across too many commenters of that type, though there are some Randians here, with whom as a right-winger I disagree on tons of things.
*Paging Tupac*
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lurker: Odd time to preach Islam but hey, I have been neglecting my religious duties. Four months in that article? Look at my comment to gunny linking a video in another thread: men are ordered back to be with their women every four months. ISLAM IS SUPERNATURALLY RIGHT AGAIN. You have been shown the light, man, take heed! This is a divine sign!
The context for saying this is just amusing the hell out of me.
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lol Bhetti I’ll take the old fashioned catholic girls, but they’ve been on the wane with the rest of western civ.
And you hate the french! Honey, they don’t make ’em like you anymore.
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I once heard a female comedian explain that women didn’t fantasize about ahving more than one man, because that’s one more person to avoid sex with in the morning.
That dabawhore story reminds of Dave Chappelle’s skit where the couple gets interviewed on “Real Sex” and she’s all proud of the fact that she took 2 guys while in her sorority.
The look on his face is priceless: shock and disgust. “I’m getting away from old gangbang here.”
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Bhetti I take care of my woman almost every day by phone. I am making her into superwoman. Her will is strong.
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Course 20 years down the road we shall see.
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I look at her mom though and think we will be just fine.
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OMW
So you’re decided to go back to your late thirties persona this week? Was 27 fun last week?
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Lurker socialism doesn’t work.
I guess that’s why we are being overrun with Sweedish and French imagrints.
Tarl Even “national defense” – what is the benefit to me of Iraq and Afghanistan, even if we “win”? agreed about Iraq but with Afghanistan I’m still on the fence.
I don’t expect social security or medicare to be around by the time I need them. By then, the boomers will have broken the system and it won’t be there for me
You can thank the poor dietary choices of baby boomers for the Medicare breakdown. Treating type II diabetes consists of how much Medicare spending? Oh and drugs for treating sky high cholesterol and BP too. Less meat and bread more fruits and vegetables. You don’t need a gym if you have a pavement, backyard or floor.
People don’t appreciate Universal healthcare until they come down with some type of cancer and they can’t afford the 5-6k it costs to cover their drugs.
One night in the hospital =1500
Just getting a new resident to see you who in fact knows nothing and therefore to defer to the nurse for help =500
A bottle of Tylenol that costs 8 bucks in CVS=45-50 bucks
A ride in the ambulance can run anywhere from 800-1200 bucks. Better to call a cab and pray that you make it to the hospital. Cause if the injury doesn’t kill you, that bill for a 15 ride sure will.
God forbid you get a nosocomial infection. That discussing nurse didn’t wash her hands before she came to touch your body. Yea you are probably gonna have to cough up the money for that too.
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As I have said before, gaining MODERATE competence in Game is worth having about $2 million in assets.
I don’t know why but I lol’d when I read this post.
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“I guess that’s why we are being overrun with Sweedish and French imagrints.”
—-nope. that’s why those countries have dwindling birth rates (amongst non-immigrants) and are being overrun by immigrants eager to exploit the system.
Also, why we have a stronger economy, even with the current Moron-In-Chief.
“People don’t appreciate Universal healthcare until they come down with some type of cancer and they can’t afford the 5-6k it costs to cover their drugs.”
——Hey chic, if you go with private health care, you’re fine financially, unless, like you, you’re stupid enought o live paycheck to paycheck.
The line to lick the feet of Castro’s statute forms to the (what else) left.
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lurker
The absolute and utter lack of common sense in these areas among SWPL types, esp. women, is astounding.
Actually it’s devotional. It’s their faith.
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Hey, women hit our hottness peak at twelve.
Only our PC feminist culture prevents people from acknowledging this universal truth; underneath the sophisticated personae of every urban PUA on a date with a tiresome 29-year-old academic hag lies a guy who secretly yearns to nail a sixth-grader.
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“Given that some level of taxation is necessary, the question is what level of taxation.”
The level necessary to support the Federal government in its Constitutional duties. The problem is that the Federal government has far exceeded its Constitutional duties. We no longer even treat the Constitution as an enumeration of limited government powers, but rather as an enumeration of limited citizen rights the government shall not infringe upon. The difference is huge, and it should be noted that our founding fathers, the men who authored the Constitution, feared that this shift would happen sooner or later. Some even argued against the Bill of Rights on the grounds that the amendments changed the tone of the Constitution and could lead one to believe the Constitution is a statement of limited rights rather than limited government powers. They reasoned that a government with no stated power to regulate religion, speech, arms, etc. couldn’t infringe upon those inalienable rights. They never imagined how we the people would come to read the Constitution.
This shift in perception really started with FDR and his threatened manipulation of the Supreme Court, which led to the court’s failure in their duty to defend the Constitution. A couple clauses (“general welfare”, “interstate commerce”) became excuses to expand Federal power in any direction, and we ended up with the mess we have today. Today our government doesn’t even bother with the pretense of pretending the powers they steal are authorized in the Constitution. They don’t even attempt to explain their actions. They assume they have all the power to do anything they desire unless challenged, and we the people hardly ever challenge their actions in court.
If our Federal government were limited once again to its enumerated powers in the Constitution, and ONLY its enumerated powers, then we wouldn’t even need $1 trillion to run things. With some defense cuts we could probably do it for under $750 billion. We could eliminate countless taxes and slash the remaining. It might even be possible to do away with direct taxes on the people in any form and run the government off other fees and off of import/export duties.
But I don’t foresee this happening any time soon. Over time power flows from the people to the government, and unfortunately it usually takes a very bloody revolution to reverse that and restore some balance.
“For those people who loathe “socialism”, would you give up services like police, fire, government, etc for a chance at no taxation?”
I would gladly give up Social Security, Medicare, the do nothing departments of education, energy, and transportation, “Homeland Security”, most of the EPA, much of NASA, the bulk of our Federal laws, the DEA, the ATF, any Federal level funding of welfare, any and all Federal funding of research, medical or otherwise, not related to an enumerated Federal power…want me to go on? There would also have to be major changes in the Treasury and banking arms of the Federal government to come into compliance with the Constitution.
All of those programs and departments infringe upon the rights of the states and of the people. Read the 10th Amendment which was put there precisely to try and prevent the shift in perception which has occurred among the people. The 10th Amendment is an instruction manual on how to read the rest of the Constitution. All of the above mentioned programs and agencies are outside the enumerated powers of the Federal government. They are all powers which are to be reserved to the states and the people. They are all illegal at the Federal level.
“My guess is that there are some services that you deem indispensable, like those listed above, and others you find wasteful or unfair, like certain welfare benefits or gov’t policies you disagree with. But this is a disagreement about policy and not taxation.”
The first question is not whether a service is indispensable or wasteful, it is whether it is legal. The first thing any congressman or president should ask himself is “how does this proposal fit under an enumerated, limited power of the Federal government?” Most of what the Federal government does today is illegal. Anyone who lived prior to 1930, including all of the framers of the Constitution, would see it that way. If our founders could see our nation today they would deem it a failure and they would, if they could, go back to the drawing board and draw up a new Constitution designed to prevent the Federal monstrosity we have today.
The pretty lies about our government need to perish. It is not the government our Constitution was intended to give us. Run away abuse of power is why we have run away deficit spending, run away debt, run away unaccountability, run away violations of citizen rights, run away lobbying, run away looting of the treasury, etc, etc. You cannot separate the two.
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It’s part devotional, and part pure self-interest.
If you’re a lawyer whose bread and butter is defending scumbags, it surely helps to develop some sort of spiritual/intellectual edifice around the garbage can you’re eating out of.
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dougjnn, agreed about “faith.”
When Ann Coulter came out with her book describing liberalism as a “religion” of the left, I thought it was typical Coulter: extreme, headline-grabbing, polarizing, but humorous for righties, and with several strong points.
As time has gone, I actually have begun to think it is literally true: left-wing dogma is literally a religion for the left.
It isn’t a surprise for me. In the absence of a belief system, people readily adopt another; humans, it seems, are predisposed to believe in something bigegr than themselves. These belief systems require faith (i.e. belief without proof) precisely because they deal with things that are beyond human comprehension.
This hasn’t been a problem in our country since we divided religions from state. Once that divide was created, you couldn’t force another to bow to your will based on your belief (or at least in theory you couldn’t).
However, the left’s “religion” is dogma without a church, Hence why they think they can simultaneously force it upon us and yet still have it not be a religion. And hence why the left has a constant apathy towards religion; like most newly founded religions, it is completely intolerant of dissent or other faiths.
That is truly scary; somehow the left has bridged the first amendment, which was one of our great strengths.
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*immigrants*
Lurker sorry
Hey chic, if you go with private health care, you’re fine financially
Tell that to the doctor who fight with Aetna and in turn stop accepting Aetna from their patients. Actually Aetna isn’t the only one. I have a friend who is fighting tooth and nail with her insurance company. It seems that quite a few private health care companies offer shitty coverage. That’s why we have many people who are under insured.
you’re stupid enought o live paycheck to paycheck
Not many people have an extra 5k to spend per month in the event they, their children or parents become ill. So the comment about living paycheck to paycheck bs.
I done now.
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Doug good call on the former 27 year old omw what happened omw?
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Re #1
You should have asked her opinion on “sexual” socialism. Does she feel that the government should regulate the sex lives of women and charge them a “sex tax” where they would be required by law to have sex with ugly, disgusting, and just plain creepy men and presumably lesbians too. The hotter the woman the more sex she would have to have with losers. Failure to whorishly comply would result in Stiff fines such as more anal, bondage, and various kinks. Any gain of weight or reduction in their attractiveness would be considered “sex-tax evasion”. The guilty would be sentenced to a penile facility where they would be put on a strict low carb diet and re-education (sex). After paying her sexual debt to society she would be released but monitored with an electronic chastity belt that gave access to the tragically under fucked. Omegas would be issued with “Sex Stamps” to allow them to have access to “pussy with dignity”.
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Daniel L. Taylor All well said.
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Gunny: The wonders of technology! You’re a resourceful man.
lurker: It’d be interesting if you could import. I know of Poland and Phillipines rich with Catholics? Loads more, none that I personally know of though.
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jeezus, guys; it’s called exaggerating for comic effect. I don’t have five kids, either. Yet.
LOL.
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Lurker socialism doesn’t work.
I guess that’s why we are being overrun with Sweedish and French imagrints.
That’s because the Swedish system punishes the productive while rewarding the parasites. Brain and skills drain to America and the rest of the anglosphere is a *serious* problem for most European countries. The leeches stay put, the middle and upper classes leave. Net migration is towards America and it’s mostly made up of the useful people.
Great for America, awful for Europe. Great for us if you want to reverse the situation, of course.
Health care in many European countries is doubly disastrous because it’s mostly government run (thus the years of queues for dental checkups) and because competent health care workers are escaping in masses to countries like the US where professionals don’t have suffer from crap wages and losing most of that crappy wage in taxes to pay for useless government.
Swedish nurses tend to escape to Norway, though. Socialism works if you have oil.
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“Tell that to the doctor who fight with Aetna and in turn stop accepting Aetna from their patients.”
–typical left winger. Defends an entire enslavement method with an anecdote or 2. No stats, just some foot stamping.
“It seems that quite a few private health care companies offer shitty coverage. That’s why we have many people who are under insured. ”
—wrong. People choose not to be insured because they are dumb enough to forget it till its too late.
“Not many people have an extra 5k to spend per month in the event they, their children or parents become ill. ”
—If you plan on an emergency fund—like any basic book on budgeting will tell you, you’ll have the money for emergencies like getting sick.
Living paycheck to paycheck is the excuse of the irresponsible. I am not incharge of fixing your irresponsibility, dumbass.
“I done now.”
—-yeah, funny how lefties always give up when faced with facts.
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interestig post lurk almost redeemed the gay shit earlier lol
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omw: stop lying, mom. Also, why do I always have to take out the trash? 😦
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It’s funny that people think our health care system is free market capitalism.
Why don’t you google Certificate of Need?
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lol, Roissy’s politics are painfully juvenile.
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“pimpslaps omw” “lieing bitch”
Canned laughter
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“I don’t know why but I lol’d when I read this post.”
I’m quite serious. Moderate competence in Game (not advanced, just moderate) will put you on the same status as a man with $2 million in net worth.
Furthermore, no one can tax your Game, defraud you out of Game, or make you lose your Game in a recession.
I have detailed elsewhere what constitutes having moderate Game.
Having advanced Game can be worth $10 Million or more. But very few people (including many seminar peddlers) have advanced Game. Roissy does not have advanced Game.
One should recognize this value of Game, and prioritize the learning of Game accordingly.
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It might be higher tood lol as a man without game can lose his two million to a woman with game. Game for a woman is literally worth 2 million not so much for a guy the way I see it played.
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Thoughts on Healthcare :
1) Socialized medicine will not work in America. It sort of work in countries with disciplined, civilized citizens who eat relatively good diets (Sweden, Norway). It cannot work in America (or Canada, where it in fact does not work well).
2) The reason people talk about socialized healthcare in America is because America’s healthcare system is already terrible, due to free-market principles NOT being applied. It is a disgusting system with perverse incentives, in America at present.
3) Medical tourism is gaining popularity. When certain procedures cost $10K in India and Thailand vs. $200K in the US, people go there. The worries about quality, liability, etc. are dissipating once the facilities in Asia gain more of a track record. Other countries like Jamaica, Costa Rica, Chile, etc. are trying to get in on the act, as catering to US ‘medical refugees’ is going to be a trillion-dollar industry soon.
More on medical tourism here, with a nice graph.
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What defines “advanced game”? Who is an example of it? It would be nice if you quantified the different levels so that we could differentitate between amatuer, moderate, and advanced game.
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A doctor in America might earn $300K. In Europe, only $100K.
The incentive for Indian and Chinese doctors to come to America is even more.
I am surprised that the outflow from Europe into America is not faster than it has been.
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“It would be nice if you quantified the different levels so that we could differentitate between amatuer, moderate, and advanced game.”
I have written about this on a couple of previous threads. I don’t feel like searching for it now, but if you want, you can.
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“Game for a woman is literally worth 2 million not so much for a guy the way I see it played.”
GunslingerGregi,
I see what you mean, but an ugly woman with Game will still not get anything relative to a beautiful woman with no Game. Looks trump everything else in women.
But a man with Game will retain his wealth, while also having success with women equal to men with much higher wealth than him.
Thus, Game is, frankly, worth more than a college degree. A man literally cannot afford NOT to study Game. To ignore Game is as perilous as not contributing to your 401K/IRA.
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chic:
*Paging Tupac*
Eh?
I outgrew my Randroidism about the time I started learning how to get laid.
A connection?
Could be!
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lol I plan on taking game to the next level get ten woman making me 100 each per day he he he. Then I can be more like G.
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Okay I lied but this is my last post for today.
*pinky swear*
@Roissy- I thought you were a libertarian?
PA Universal healthcare: gives everyone very poor quality of care, and that care becomes progressively unavailable to everyone.
Reasons for that include poor incentives for smart people to study medicine.
PA, couldn’t we agree that the poor pay(average 100k) and student loans are poor incentives for smart Americans to study medicine. I’ve an two articles a few years ago which pointed out that some medical students were leaving medical school and heading str8 to wall street where they could make real money and pay of those burdensome student loans.
Seeking alpha Success is determined by ambition and intelligence – not education. don’t forget Charisma and coming from a powerful wealthy family probably won’t hurt either.
Sara I’m on my soapbox because prescription drugs and well meaning doctors kill and maim more people than all the wars put together.
Sara I am slowly but surely moving in this direction too. I read that German doctors aren’t so fast to give medication when a person has the slightest illness. They offer vitamins(?) and rest first.
@Z- I love that list
Lurker Natrually, the judge (a woman) signed off on the suit being viable and got some lawyers from our firm on board.
Wow I really thought you were below 18.
Lurker there are plenty of articles about doctors suing Aetna for payment. You can google it yourself. Darling I don’t dig throught google for articles in order to prove points. You can do that yourself.
If you plan on an emergency fund—like any basic book on budgeting will tell you, you’ll have the money for emergencies like getting sick.
SMH
Lurker not many people have amassed 100-200k in their emergency fund in the case that they become ill.
Tood It sort of work in countries with disciplined, civilized citizens who eat relatively good diets (Sweden, Norway). I agree diet plays a large part in healthcare spending.
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I will make cougars good for something dammit.
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TupacI outgrew my Randroidism about the time I started learning how to get laid.
A connection?
Could be!
And all this time I thought it was you who was voting against the reviews of those who don’t like Atlas Shrugged.
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See even woman who can make 25k in 2 days still need some manly influence and guidance to save some of that shit and turn it into something greater than themselves. Otherwise they are just another consumer.
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I think rich people have actually forgotten it is in their best interest to be able to have people to give money to that can make more with it. Otherwise they end up getting ass fucked in the end by some shiester with fucking credentials.
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Med students here: course is easy and you go in at 18, loans are given out with enough generosity for a part-time job to cover the rest and for the last year of the fifth year course, the tuition is fully paid by the universal health care system funds. Loan repayment is income-based at 9% of amount of money x above 15,000 pounds.
If US criteria are even less appetising, it’s no wonder that you need to import a lot of enthusiastic foreign docs because even with these cushy incentives, the medical schools here don’t get that brilliant quality of intake they probably would like.
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Bhett, the average American medical student graduates with 100k-200k* of med school loans. Some of those loans come with high interest rates and aren’t very open to deferments because of low pay etc. Some doctors will struggle with loan payments while in residency making 30-40k per year.
some may owe up to 300k+ if they are studying to be studying to be surgeons.
Fortunately the average surgeon makes 300k.
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Yeah, the debt amount’s probably in the same region, unless the household income’s below £30,000 in which case its starting to be mostly grants that you don’t have to pay back. However, the repayment seems easy to keep up with and is the same across all university courses in the UK.
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1 percenters need to help out the other 99 percent by doing that they help themselves. See I get my 10 then they create 100 jobs. Then I get to go bigtime create thousands of jobs and become a legend. Then some of my minions will be at multimillionaire status and many, many of lower rung will achieve millionaire status. Too easy stop the hate of the lower people just because they aren’t “smart” if you can’t work there asses to achieve you are the problem. That is definetly one problem with education the educated do look at people without it as if they were lower than a piece of shit and working with them as shit work. Dam lifes a bitch. People think they are so high class living paycheck to paycheck till they get fucking permanently laid off at 49 and can’t find a job.
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Chic Noir
He is in a libertarianish direction I’m quite sure. He’s certainly not religious right nor authoritarian right, and I don’t think neo-con right either.
Most people who are don’t subscribe to pure libertarianism though, with it’s absolute free market extremism, with e.g. virtually no national interests and so on. A pure libertarian has to be for open borders and totally free trade, without any use of trade bargaining so that other countries lower their trade barriers as well.
Libertarians also tend to have a man the rational actor view of human nature, whereas we’re a whole lot more animal and instinctual than that.
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Chic Noir,
I thought the list was funny, but the picture even funnier,
Yes, I know my sense of humor is sometimes warped.
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tood but pussy game trumps all he he he Dude I know just bought his wife in phillipines 300k house with cash in her name. See its funny woman don’t need laws to make men give them shit if they are good woman to there men. Why the divorce laws are such bullshit. Since men would already give what they think would be fair. Forcing them to give money to troll woman is bs.
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Whiskey,
May I offer my observations as to why so many women seem inclined toward socialism?
Whiskey, actually I think its the “anti-big-man” strategy, although sleeping their way to the top certainly does have its allure for them.
To wit,
The average to-fairly-pretty gal on a college campus, who graduates to a desk job at whatever gov/non-profit/corporate job probably has to get married to have a family to a dependable wage-earning kind of guy. She needs this guy’s income, retirement benefits, physical presence (bad boys are often gone) to help pay for the kids her biology urges her to have, keep a decent roof over her head in a safe part of town, to aid with the children, and to allow her to someday retire comfortably, etc.
Whiskey, if socialism gives her most of the above PLUS free child care (so she can have free time to chase bad boys), whats not to like for her? The state has REPLACED Mr. Dependable-Good-adoring-Daddy-to-the-kids with housing for everyone, a job for everyone, child-care (babysitting) for everyone SO THAT SHE CAN GO FUCK THE BAD BOYS THAT MAKE HER WET.
Who pays for it? Insanely high tax rates on the productive (those boring good guys for the most part). The very men who dont excite her loins are the ones who PAY for her to fuck the half-employed bad boys that DO excite her.
What is the allure of socialism for the average single chick then? Its allure is the situation of getting to have a good beta husband to provide for you that you dont have to fuck or even live with while you get to screw bad boy after bad boy………………….and the beta husband basically pays for it through his increasingly high taxes.
Thats my opinion on the matter. Even if a hot chick scored Bill Clinton Whiskey (much hotter than Monica), she’d be cheating on him in the future with some young stud. Weve spoiled women Whiskey like some indulgent parents spoil their children. They want to eat their cake and have it to. Socialism is a promise of this. They may never verbalize these urges even mentally, but that is what is subconciously THERE in their heads……”even if my life has some -setbacks-, I’ll be taken care of as long as I birth a kid, therefore I’m a liberal democrat”. Thats pretty much the thought process that goes through their minds.
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Naturally I think he could have done a little more with 300k than buy a place to live. He could have created some serious wealth.
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Chic Noir,
Not to worry about Dr. debt. We import doctors from 3rd world countries who arrive without any debt (rich parents or free schooling.) with only 6 rather than 8 years invested in college and medical school. (Yes, those missing two years really show up when you engage them in discussion regarding thinking and reasoning ability.) After we (US govt) pays to train them in a specialty (internship, residency) they will work cheap for a green card.
It isn’t the end of the world, just the end of the world as have known it.
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z–
Actually if you saw some pics of Monica when Clinton was first starting up with her she did look pretty hot. She porked up alarmingly though, and those are overwhelming the pics people saw of her. I’m thinking of one pic in particular where she’s got a beret on and is shaking his hand and leaning in to grab a little talk attention from him on an outdoor receiving line.
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Wish me luck folks maybe I will get to do this multi billion dollar project and then it is on.
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Questioner said:
“For example, to prevent the abuse of people’s rights, we need to ensure that everyone has adequate education and health. Presumably, these rights are covered in the basic rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”
Presumably? By whose presumption?
This is the problem with liberals in one sentence. Everything they believe is given and non debatable.
Well, I presume otherwise, and who the fuck are you to judge me?
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dougjnA pure libertarian has to be for open borders and totally free trade, without any use of trade bargaining so that other countries lower their trade barriers as well
Thanks for the info dougjn. Well that^^^ means he certainly ins’t a true libertairan.
joelWe import doctors from 3rd world countries who arrive without any debt (rich parents or free schooling.)
shm
I think it’s bull that we pull doctor from other countries instead of investing in our best and brightest. I read that 25% of US doctors are foreign born and IIRC, it’s 50% in the UK.
There were a group of blk medical students who returned from Cuba a year or two ago. Fidel invited them to attend medical school free of charge. In exchange, they were to help the poor in America. *Poor meaning ghetto, trailer park or Appalachia.
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I have no idea what everyone’s talking about by comment 163, but it probably has nothing to do with the post.
Getting back on track, you could refine the Nuke the Pussy from Orbit strategy on cute girls who work at Barnes and Noble, Whole Foods, used CD stores, or Starbucks.
After a disarming opener, freak her out with:
“I’m looking for a news magazine called The American Conservative.” [If they don’t carry it, accuse them of being a hippie bookstore, and could they check if another B&N does carry it.]
“Hey, do you guys sell pork rinds? I’m looking for a new snack and want as much animal fat and salt as possible.”
“So where do you guys keep the boxed sets? I’ve been looking for the My Chemical Romance one for awhile now…”
“OK, here’s an honest question — you guys carry coffees from all over the world. Sumatra, Kenya, Colombia. You should start carrying Kansas coffee. Don’t laugh! I know what you’re thinking, but seriously, it’s much more robust and nutty than the other stuff you guys offer.”
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omw said:
You mean you were only kidding about the Confirmed Slut game, the pushup bra, the hot pants, and “whole shitload of eyeliner” and all that stuff?
I was hoping to convince you to add acrylic nails. Maybe that would bring David Alexander out of his shell.
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I, like any decent person, am an anarcho-libertarian. Electing the black socialist Obama was unforgivable and I won’t be happy until I see his supporters starving in the street. This insane stimulus will be a disaster and economic ruin sooner or later. We need a cleansing rain of hot lead.
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There are many who would argue that success is driven not only by ambition and intelligence but also luck, background factors, timing, family, etc.
Not to mention the fact that intelligence and ambition are, to some degree, heritable.
I think both communitarians and libertarians have good points. For me it’s a matter of striking the right balance.
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Cannon’s Cannon wrote:
I was at a house party last month going through the motions with a cute 24 year old. When small talk turned to the poor economy, she decided to share with me that she couldn’t understand how celebrities and athletes can earn millions of dollars while poor people are suffering without jobs. I decided to discard my investment of game and disprove socialism for her. I began smiling when I noticed the sparkle visibly draining from her eyes.
It was immediately gratifying, but a doubt lingered in my mind later on. What had I actually accomplished? I had tried to fill an empty bucket with a single drop of knowledge. My salient points were barely registering with this girl, whose divorced mother makes $100K as a seasonal accountant. And her own job? Credit analyst at a big bank. Four years of business management courses at Seton Hall help refine her philosophy.
Why yes, it does. Celebrities and athletes are big earners as a result of draconian weeding out where 99% of those that try fail. Why shouldn’t an SWPL hate it that some low-born makes money, no matter how hard it was for them to get there?
It’s about who you know, not what you know. Of course, it is impolite for the ‘decent’ SWPL to say it. But that’s what she means, and that’s what she BELIEVES.
“Socialism” is of chief-most value to those who control the distribution. Just ask Barack.
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Tupac Chopra
Yes.
Only Ayn Rand could make sex scenes into dry philosophical exposition. Someone should have sent her a bunch of Harlequin romance novels.
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It is bull that we import M.D.’s. We have been doing this for 50 years. We have denied many thousand Americans a career in medicine in favor of importing MD’s from other countries, by not having enough medical school slots in this country.
The last time the US Govt insisted on more medical school slots was during the hated regime of Richard Nixon, I believe. The medical school expanded their slots under protest and under the threat of losing Federal aid.
I haven’t read of any money for new medical schools in all the many millions in the stimulus bill. We will get more women’s studies programs, more student union buildings, more affirmative action provosts, etc.
We tell American kids they aren’t good enuf to be a doctor, then import people from the 3rd world who, in many, many instances, are inferior to the American kid in intelligence and work ethic.
BTW, what does this have to do with picking up girls?
I think Roissy should have told that Commie girl this:
After the fall of the USSR, some American paper was interviewing people in Moscow about how they saw the new situation. They interviewed one old woman who said she really missed the USSR, it was better then, because she had a govt pension from the USSR. Turned out her father was a Soviet general, who was put to death by Stalin. That is a sickening insight into female mind and the socialist system.
The USSR has other sickening insights into the female mind. After Stalins death, Beria (chief of the Secret Police) reported that his wife actually cried. He chided her, since he said, Stalin would have had him (Beria) killed and her killed or imprisioned if he had lived. She didn’t care. Her reaction was common among the wives of highly placed Russian officials in Moscow. Anybody read of this and thinks about it can only have one reaction.They really do think differently. And, worse.
About the free care in the USSR. It was great. They even had free psychiatric care with hospitalization. Anybody who criticized the govt got free psychiatric care.
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Are you kidding? You messed up a date/opportunity to argue about politics? This blog just jumped the shark.
I can’t tell you how many women I clicked with that don’t necessarily share the same politics as me.
You used to be amoral, man. You used not to care. What’s happened?
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Anonymous / Max from Oz
Tell the blog software to remember who you are, ‘K?
BTW, what’s the derivation of Oz? I could guess, and I could google it, but I figured you’d know.
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Mark in Ark:
“I, like any decent person, am an anarcho-libertarian. Electing the black socialist Obama was unforgivable and I won’t be happy until I see his supporters starving in the street. This insane stimulus will be a disaster and economic ruin sooner or later. We need a cleansing rain of hot lead.”
Where were you when Bush was pushing his similar agenda? The TARP plan was touted by Bush and Hank Paulson before Obama was elected.
That’s the problem with you guys, you point out his being black as if it’s some sort of qualifier. You are horrible at getting your point and therefore your agenda across, which is why nobody listens to the stuff people like you say.
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Default User:
Only Ayn Rand could make sex scenes into dry philosophical exposition. Someone should have sent her a bunch of Harlequin romance novels.
Actually, one of the things I give Ayn props for is acknowledging (both in her fiction and philosophical monographs) that femininity is important in a woman, and that the essence of femininity is what she called “hero-worship,” i.e., submissiveness toward masculine leadership.
She was excoriated by her left-leaning sisters for the quasi “rape” scenes in her novels. Rand was pulling a Paglia before it was in fashion among the female intelligentsia.
Does anyone remember her article about a woman president?
————————————————–
ABOUT A WOMAN PRESIDENT
by Ayn Rand
About a year ago, in the issue of January 1968, _McCall’s_
published an article-interview with sixteen prominent women (myself
included) who had been asked to answer the question: What would I do
if I were president of the United States? The first paragraph of my
answer read: “I would not want to be president and would not vote for
a woman president. A woman cannot reasonably want to be a
commander-in-chief. I prefer to answer the question by outlining what
a rational man would do if _he_ were president.”
Thereafter, I recieved many letters from students of Objectivism,
asking me the reasons of that particular paragraph.
I was counting on the readers of my novels to understand my
reasons. I grant you, however, that the issue is not self-evident and
that it is not easy to conceptualize. For illustrative material, I
suggest that you study the basic motivation of the heroines in my
novels, particularly Dagny Taggart.
I do not think that a rational woman can want to be president.
Observe that I did not say she would be unable to do the job; I said
that she could not _want_ it. It is not a matter of her ability, but
of her _values_.
It is not an issue of feminine “inferiority,” intellectually or
morally; women are not inferior to men in ability or intelligence;
besides, it would not take much to do a better job than some of our
recent presidents have done. It is certainly not an issue of the
popular notion that women are motivated predominantly by their
emotions rather than by erason — which is plain nonsense. It is not
an issue of the false dichotomy of marriage versus career, with the
corollary notion that “a woman’s place is in the home”; whether
married or single, women need and should have careers, for the same
reasons as men. Women may properly rise as high as their ability and
ambition will carry them; in politics, they may reach the ranks of
congresswomen, senators, judges, or any similar rank they choose.
But when it comes to the post of president, do not look at the
issue primarily from a somewhat altruistic or social viewpoint —
i.e., do not ask: “Could she do the job and would it be good for the
country?” Conceivably, she could and it would — but _what would it
do to her?_
The issue is primarily psychological. It involves a woman’s
fundamental view of life, of herself and of her basic values. For a
woman _qua_ woman, the essence of femininity is hero worship — the
desire to look up to man. “To look up” does not mean dependence,
obedience, or anything implying inferiority. It means an intense kind
of admiration; and admiration is an emotion that can be experienced
only by a person of strong character and independent value judgements.
A “clinging vine” type of woman is not an admirer, but an exploiter of
men. Hero worship is a demanding virtue: a woman has to be worthy of
it and of the hero she worships. Intellectually and morally, i.e., as
a human being, she has to be his equal; then the object of her worship
is specifically his _masculinity_, not any human virtue she might
lack.
This does not mean that a feminine woman feels or projects hero
worship for any and every individual man; as human beings, many of
them may, in fact, be her inferiors. Her worship is an abstract
emotion for the _metaphysical_ concept of masculinity as such — which
she experiences fully and concretely only for the man she loves, but
which colors her attitude toward all men. This does not mean that
there is a romantic or sexual intention in her attitude toward all
men; quite the contrary: the higher her view of masculinity, the more
severely demanding her standards. It means that she never loses
awareness of her own sexual identity and theirs. It means that a
properly feminine woman does not treat men as if she were their pal,
sister, mother — or _leader_.
Now consider the meaning of the presidency: in all his
professional relationships, within the entire sphere of his work, the
president is the _highest authority_; he is the “chief executive,” the
“commander-in-chief.” Even in a fully free society, with an
unbreached constitutional division of pwers, a president is the final
authority who sets the terms, the goals, the policies of every job in
the executive branch of the government. In the performance of his
duties, a president does not deal with equals, but only with inferiors
(not inferiors as persons, but in respect to the hierarchy of their
positions, their work, and their responsibilities).
_This_, for a rational woman, would be an unbearable situation.
(And if she is _not_ rational, she is unfit for the presidency or for
any important position, anyway.) To act as the superior, the leader,
virtually the _ruler_ of all the men she deals with, would be an
excruciating psychological torture. It would require a total
depersonalization, an utter selflessness, and an incommunicable
loneliness; she would have to suppress (or repress) every personal
aspect of her own character and attitude; she could not be herself,
i.e., a woman; she would have to function only as a _mind_, not as a
_person_, i.e., as a thinker of devoid of personal values — a
dangerously artificial dichotomy which no one could sustain for long.
By the nature of her duties and daily activities, she would become the
most unfeminine, sexless, metaphysically inappropriate, and rationally
revolting figure of all: a _matriarch_.
This woudl apply to the reigning queen of an absolute monarchy,
but it would not apply to a woman in any field of endeavor other than
politics. It does not apply, for instance, to a woman who heads a
business concern; even though she is the highest authority within that
concern, she deals constantly with men who are not under her orders:
with customers, suppliers, competitors; she is not condemned to the
solitary confinement of dealing exclusively with men who are her
hierarchical inferiors (nor is her power as wide as that of a
president).
It is conceivable that in some unusual historical context, in
some period of extreme national emergency, it would be proper for a
woman temporarily to assume the leadership of a country, in the role
of president, if there were no men able to assume it. But what would
this imply about the character of the men at that time? (Normally,
the best and ablest among men do not necessarily have to seek the
presidency, but in an extreme emergency they would have to — as did
the founding fathers.)
There is a historical precedent for the fate of a woman leader in
a period of extreme emergency: Joan of Arc — the most heroic woman
and the most tragic symbol in history. I say “tragic” not merely
because she was burned at the stake in reward for having saved her
country — although that monstrous physical evil is singularly
appropriate, as a fiction-like concretization of the spiritual tragedy
of her life. Ask yourself: what power of dedication she must have
possessed when she found herself as the only one able to revive the
fighting spirit of men who had given up — and what would _she
personally_ have felt about it?
For a woman to seek or desire the presidency is, in fact, so
terrible a prospect of spiritual self-immolation that the woman who
would seek it is psychologically unworthy of the job.
————-
You gotta respect that.
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FWIW, most people on this board aren’t libertarian, they’re paleo-conservative in the similar vein of Pat Buchanan.
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I would like to hear Clio’s take on that article, actually.
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Also, why we have a stronger economy, even with the current Moron-In-Chief.
Stronger economy, my ass. The level of public debt *combined* with size of the annual deficit of the USA is catastrophic.
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She needs this guy’s income, retirement benefits, physical presence (bad boys are often gone) to help pay for the kids her biology urges her to have, keep a decent roof over her head in a safe part of town, to aid with the children, and to allow her to someday retire comfortably, etc.
In exchange for handing over my income and other benefits, I get shitty sex, and I lose most of my personal freedom. So again, please tell me the direct benefits of your magical arrangement?
but these days you’ve got to look like a real slut to get any play.
We have porn. We don’t “need” women anymore since porn is a lot better than the average woman, and porn tends show acts while even if you have game you could do with a woman, but simply looks better on film with porn stars.
Friendly asexual vibe, sure, but nobody was lining up to get my phone number.
If you don’t look sexual, then generally, I’m going to presume that you’re as sexless as a door knob and that you aren’t looking for sex.
he will attempt to rig the system to take from his betters.
If you’re afraid of immigrants doing so, shouldn’t you fear white men in the same situation?
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ROISSY”S NUKE THE BROWN SUGAR GAME
ROISSY: I’m reading this fascinating new book , on the Civil War and REconstruction.
QUONEESHA: I don’t care about no cvil war, we got Obama now! Yeah!
ROISSY: I wouldn’t vote for Obama if you put a gun to my head…
QUONEESHA: You voted for that MCain Cracka?
ROISSY: You know Cracka, comes from “whip cracker” I learned that in this book. You, know I think slavery was good for blacks…
QUONEESHA: what?
ROISSY: Yeah, i mean 12 hours a day of picking cotton is at least productive labor, vs. 12 hours of standing on the corner, grabbing your dick, and drinking 40s, don’t you think?
QUONEESHA: Hmmmm, well….
ROISSY: I don’t want my tax dollars paying for that dudes kids…
QUONEESHA : Mmmmm… I don’t want ’em payin for his kids either, But like what if it WAS your kid? like what if I had a nice light-skinned Quoeesha-ROissy baby? Yeah!!! I promise!!
No child support … just give me that high-yaller spunk!!
yeah!!
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^^^ D
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Tupac Chopra
I was being flippant about Rand. Although somewhat sympathetic to her views, I found her books hard going. Some great dialogue/lectures but heavy reading (and I do read).
That piece you quoted is very interesting. I take back what I said. Belay the Harlequin order, as Rand already knows game.
Thanks.
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ROISSY”S NUKE THE BROWN SUGAR GAME
ROISSY: I’m reading this fascinating new book , on the Civil War and REconstruction.
QUONEESHA: I don’t care about no cvil war, we got Obama now! Yeah!
ROISSY: I wouldn’t vote for Obama if you put a gun to my head…
QUONEESHA: You voted for that MCain Cracka?
ROISSY: You know Cracka, comes from “whip cracker” I learned that in this book. You, know I think slavery was good for blacks…
QUONEESHA: what?
ROISSY: Yeah, i mean 12 hours a day of picking cotton is at least productive labor, vs. 12 hours of standing on the corner, grabbing your dick, and drinking 40s, don’t you think?
QUONEESHA: Hmmmm, well….
ROISSY: I don’t want my tax dollars paying for that dudes kids…
QUONEESHA : Mmmmm… I don’t want ‘em payin for his kids either, But like what if it WAS your kid? like what if I had a nice light-skinned Quoeesha-ROissy baby? Yeah!!! I promise!!
No child support … just give me that high-yaller spunk!!
yeah!!
I’m pretty sure this is exactly how a Roissy/Chic Noir date would go down.
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acrylic nails!
Holy Hannah, it’s been at least five years since I’ve noticed a woman sporting an obvious set of fakeys.
It’s either rough cuticles with hangnails or understated French manis, far as the eye can see.
Poor DA. 😦
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Socialized healthcare:
You’re a healthy 32-year old, and discover something worrisome and make an appointment to have it checked out. Once you reach someone by phone, in which case it’s a rude operator, you are informed that your appointment is in seven months.
So you come to the doctor’s office seven months later. After having a barely-human lump of fat snarl at you to sign in, you wait about five hours past your appointment to be seen by the doctor.
You are finally asked to go see the doctor. A rude and stupid-looking nurse who barely speaks a word of English asks you a couple of questions that you feel she has no understandiong of, as she reads mechanically out of her algorythm.
She takes your blood. But since it’s her lunch break, she tosses the vacutainer onto Medical Waste and just pencils in some information into your records. Like hell she’s gonna burn more of her lunch break by walking it over to the Lab!
Then you are told that the doctor will not be able to see you today. What you don’t know, is that someone had offered an “incentive” for the doctor to bump you in that patient’s favor. So you go home after making an appointment for next October 14th.
You again show pu on that day, and miraculously a doctor ses you. You barely understand his English, but he does examine your ailment and tells you that you need an MRI. Tells you to make an appointment.
So you go to the referrals window, and a clerk yells at you for filling out the wrong form. So you meekly fill out the right referral form, and you’re told, after being told to wait for about 2 hours — referrals clerks have lunch breaks too — that your MRI is scheduled for January 20th.
You go to the radiology facility on January 21st. And you are told that they’re short on MRI equipment because one is down and you’ll need to come back next week.
You come back next week, and get the MRI. Then you go home, and are asked to come back in three weeks for your results.
You come back in three weeks, and the doctor tells you that you have cancer, untreatable at this point. And that you should have otten it checked out several months earleir, in which case it would have been perfectly treatable.
That’s socialized medicine.
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Chick I was just talking to just got approved for a 400k loan for a house. Shit ain’t changeing that much looooooooooooollllllllllll
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I beleive that the government should care for and protect everyone with free education, food, housing and healthcare..All people deserve to be nutured and cared for like children.
…..Until they are 15 years old
After that you are on your own, no tax and no welfare.
If the government wants to raise money for defense then it can issue 30 or 40 year capital secured investment bonds that people can use as a safe vehicle for saving for their own retirement.
In Australia (and I am sure in places in America) we have volunteer fire fighters in rural areas – these guys kick ass – their is no reason why police cant be the same.
At road accidents in Australia its very common that the tow truck operators (profit motivated) arive at the scene within 5 mintues – while Ambulance drivers (govt run non profit motivated) take 40-60 minutes.
And borders should be closed
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I am pretty sure chic is a man you can all begin the crying game sequence from ace ventura now. She revealed that is not the pic of (her)
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Damn, PA, that’s freakin depressing. But probably right on target.
Hey! Check out Michelle’s new sleeveless dress? Ain’t she cute? No?
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Yea max a lot volunteer so that maybe they can get a job in a city. Then they can’t it pisses em off.
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I think the bias towards favoring social justice, equity in outcome, and opportunity for all is developmentally _NORMAL_ in the values of a younger adult. It’s a vestige of childhood and demanding “fairness” as in “that’s not fair”.
No, it is a product of (a) no experience in the real world, and (b) 12-16 years of immersion in Leftist propaganda “taught” by losers who couldn’t make it in the real world.
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dougjnn
Anonymous / Max from Oz
Tell the blog software to remember who you are, ‘K?
BTW, what’s the derivation of Oz
That wasn’t me – I have fixed the defaults yesterday.
Oz is derived as follows
Australian > Aussie > Oz – Many sailors in WW2 had Oz tattooed on themselves so if they died and only their bodies recovered they could be identified by the home team but the Japs would be confused.
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a lot of former volunteers over here in iraq finally getting paid.
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Hey, OMW, one of my parents was a doctor in communist Poland. The shit I heard that used to go on there… stuff like nurses just making up stuff in your files because they were too lazy to take your bloodwork to the lab. That’s socialism.
My wife, who is currenlty expecting, has her medical history book from when she was a child over there when it was still communist. She gets her routine bloodwork done here in the US in a very good Ob/Gyn — and it turns out that her bllod type is not what her little book say sit is.
She’s concerned that the Ob/Gyn made an error, so she gets tested for blood type just to be sure, and yes indeed. The socialized medicine healthcare professionals in 1980s commie Poland had in fact noted incorrect blood type in her files when she was a newborn.
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tupacI’m pretty sure this is exactly how a Roissy/Chic Noir date would go down.
Our date would be very boring since Roissy would do most of the talking and I would nod occasionally.
I don’t have a preference for light skin and I don’t want children. Furthermore, I’m not a fan of racial epithets. FYI, black women are not hung up on light skin. That stuff went out with Al B Sure.
Where is MU? Has he been banned?
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Well woman lieing with no problem seems to be being proven today. Chick posting a pic that is not her. OMW telling us about a few different ages. What the hell is next. Sara turns out to be 60
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Gunslinger, I’ve posted my pic sometime ago. I change my avatar every so often.
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“black women are not hung up on light skin. ”
Must resist , must resist
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So anyway I gamed this new chick that has a masters degree to be my bitch. Kind of cool plus she has access to a 400 k loan. he he he
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the essence of femininity is what she called “hero-worship,”
Why would I want anybody to worship me?
Hey, OMW, one of my parents was a doctor in communist Poland.
I suspect this is clouding up your views of healthcare and hell, a lot of other factors. This seems to be rather common with former citizens of Communist stations. In contrast, there are people like my godmother who fled Haiti who have developed leftward viewpoints after growing up with incompetent and kleptomaniac governments.
BTW, did your parent transfer his or her practice over to the States?
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incompetent and kleptomaniac governments
Um, this is the very essence of Leftism…
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did your parent transfer his or her practice over to the States?
Alas, no. No biggie at this point, but at the time, poor knowledge of English and having to work full time made it too difficult to try to get the US license.
By the way, kleptomania runs amok in socialist systems. It was always a curious thing that lowly construction managers has such impressive country houses. Never quite figured out how they could “afford” the materials.
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David Alexander wrote:
“In exchange for handing over my income and other benefits, I get shitty sex, and I lose most of my personal freedom. So again, please tell me the direct benefits of your magical arrangement?”
David you are handing over your income via high taxation if you make pretty good money, and you are losing your personal freedom anyway. The point is, is that given the political situation that women would have if they had the power to wave a wand, would be one in which every adult would probably be given an Soviet-era-looking apartment with one small bedroom, two bedrooms if they had <2 kids, 3 bedrooms if they had <4 kids, etc. The air conditioning/heating would be “set” at 72″degrees, and the stove would work, and everybody would be given a Prius-like car to drive. 80% of your income would be taken via taxation. That way, she would not be punished for pump-and-dumps for years with ‘bad boy’s’ until—-like Russia and Eastern Europe, the whole edifice fell apart and basics like shoes couldn’t even be manufactured because of the army of beta males who simply “quit” out there.
David, most women have the emotional intelligence of a child and cannot understand why life doesn’t unfold like a fairy-tale romance novel (same thing).
Let me put it to you this way David, if YOU were born a millionaire, worth 100 million bucks with a trust fund that paid you 3-4 million a year to live on spun-off…………….you probably would eshew decent, fairly attractive woman-after-woman so that you could chase big-assed porn starlets that you find attractive, and that would be your right, because YOU could pay for that indulgence. Women want us all to indulge them with OUR money so they can live the same on everyone else’s dime……………………………………………………………………………………………until they fall in love with the kids they have with their husband, and then they turn into Republicans because they then care about THEIR OWN family to the exclusion of just about everyone else. Interesting how that works, ne’st pas?
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“””Dave Alexander
Why would I want anybody to worship me?””””
Because it is awesome dude. 🙂
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At road accidents in Australia its very common that the tow truck operators (profit motivated) arive at the scene within 5 mintues
I work for a laaarge roadside assistance firm, and we can’t get our tow trucks out that quickly.
Holy Hannah, it’s been at least five years since I’ve noticed a woman sporting an obvious set of fakeys.
I swear, that’s just about one of the few redeeming things about Long Island. You’ll find a number of women varying in age, race, ethnicity with acrylic nails. It’s probably the one thing that I’d miss besides the trains if I ever left…
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“”””””Z
most women have the emotional intelligence of a child and cannot understand why life doesn’t unfold like a fairy-tale romance novel (same thing). “””””
This probably applies to most people but yea I see this in the wives who tell them to come home but then when the same paycheck doesn’t roll in anymore the woman are shocked that there lifestyle is “different”
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@ Daniel L Taylor,
Good points. I don’t want to get into a legal discussion about state’s rights or the 10th Amendment. I think the constitutionality argument is slightly tangential for this discussion.
Even if we assume that a federal agency is unconstitutional (e.g., Dept. of Education), we still need to determine whether its functions were necessary. If not, then it could be eliminated, If yes, then its function would have to be passed on to a state/local agency, with corresponding increases in state/local taxation. In either case, we still need to address the question of what services are necessary and what level of taxation is needed to support them.
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Chuck,
Bush was a moron who destroyed the Republicans (who won’t win again for a generation). Bush betrayed every conservative ideal. He will be known as the worst president and deserve it.
I wanted Obama, a racial extortionist from the most corrupt city in the US, to win in order to have more chaos. Out this coming chaos we might get some freedom.
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Did you guys just imply what I think you implied? That Harlequin teaches Game? If so, AWESOME.
I’ve read Terry Goodkind, who’s an Objectivist, and he had very good romantic writing (at the beginning of his series, anyway, then it went downhill as he started getting more philo– oh, I’ve just contradicted myself there).
DA: Don’t equate being in a relationship with a woman to porn. Don’t equate interacting with a person and having a sexual encounter with them — all those emotions including ‘triumph’ & touch — to looking at images. It cannot and will never be the same, will only be ‘better’ for some who have issues or are stunted in some way. I get enjoyment from fiction and so on, I get where you’re coming from. Don’t turn your personal problems into general lies. You sound like you’re on the verge of breaking down in some way, pull yourself back.
omw: chronic nailbiting problem. Need to get me a discreet set that will keep the DAs of the world away.
PA: Was that a personal experience? In UK these days, constant drive to shorten all the waiting but I think they’ve got it down to less than months certainly. With cancer suspicion, things’re considerably speeded up. Any symptoms, you get your GP appointment the next week, see your GP maybe half an hour later than given time if that. Lots of paperwork around test requests, so fairly ok follow up on it.
In US, you’d get quickly speeded through, depending on your insurance/if you can afford it, right? In UK, can skip all the waiting times, also depending on your insurance. What’s the difference? UK citizens are taxed more and perhaps often make the mistake of thinking they shouldn’t go private, despite their own interaction with the system and media stories.
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What’s interesting right now in Poland is that there is currently a mix of socialized and private medicine.
The government-run practice is better than it was under communism — people today aren’t scared of complaining — and it does provide for basic needs, medication, and old folks, if they can’t afford anythign else. The usual problems are there: waiting times, rationing, some degree of incompetence and poor customer service, and inadequate facilities and medical equipment.
But there is also a wonderful pure-free-marked system of private practice. Everytime I visit the country, which is every year, I get stuff checked out as-needed, Last year I went in to have a stomach thing checked out. What an experience!
Appointment two days after calling to schedule one, state-of-the-art clinic, gorgeous and friendly receptionists, competent and pleasant nurse, and a smart doctor who knows how to talk to patients.
And it cost me (100% my out of pocket cash) less than I’d pay deductable here in the US. First-rate care, and a fantastic customer experience.
By the way, Poland is a great place for Medical Tourism, should anyone be interested. German and British broads flock there for facelifts.
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How bout dental I need to get the movie star fake smile to up my game. Anyone have best place to get that.
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By the way, kleptomania runs amok in socialist systems.
As I like to say, Haiti and Cuba both got awful leaders during the 1950s, and everybody with half a brain ended up leaving or dieing in a prison. The only difference is that the poor Cubans learnt to read and write, lucked out with better food, decent basic healthcare, and better shelter. Poor Haitians got shit. Besides, the kleptomania in Haiti was far worse, and every government since 1951 has little to show for it’s efforts. Tax revenues and foreign aid money is squandered, and you need to bribe everybody absurd amounts of money to get anything and because of that, everybody wants to work for the government. Hell, that reason alone is why I’m relatively pro-second amendment as a liberal…
I must note, that my comments above do not imply that Cuban communism is ideal. Hell, it’s far from what I’d ever wish on any country.
No biggie at this point, but at the time, poor knowledge of English and having to work full time made it too difficult to try to get the US license.
It’s similar to the reasons my dad never ended up not practising civil engineering here in the States despite having a degree* and several years of experience.
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Mark,
then I’m with you on both points.
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PA: Was that a personal experience?
Indirectly. It describes pretty accurately the kind of bureaucracies you’re dealing with under a socialized system and incoroprates some of my parents’ and other peoples’ anecdotes from having worked for and/or been treated under commie health care systems.
It also describes the quality of healthcare first-world countries can expect the further they go down the road to socialism.
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David Alexander
At road accidents in Australia its very common that the tow truck operators (profit motivated) arive at the scene within 5 mintues
I work for a laaarge roadside assistance firm, and we can’t get our tow trucks out that quickly.
Roadside assistance also does take 30-60 mins. However a large number of independent tow truck drivers simply sit in the field all day with Cell phone, and various radio systems and just wait for crashes to happen.
They will move your car from the accident site to a smash repairer for around $300 cash and are generally at the scene within 10 mins – the ambulances always take alot longer.
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It’s similar to the reasons my dad never ended up not practising civil engineering here in the States
I think my parent 25 years ago could relate. It’s easy to say “just do it” but there is the whole thing about being overwhelmed with the enormity of language and unfamiliar institutions, and having to work full time, which makes people older than student-age too tired to think about pie-in-the-sky things like studying for their license exams.
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Bhetti said:
In a way, yes. Unreachable alpha male that the heroine worships. A man who may be oblivious, or at least cool, to her. Challenges for her to pass before she can get her man. Fantastic sex knee trembling sex. All spoiled by some sappy wedding in the end.
BTW: A long time ago I started to read one of those, just for a laugh. I thought it would be lame, and in a way it was. However, it did contain some imaginative sex scenes. One involved a goldfish wriggling around and providing the heroine with exquisite pleasures.
Every player wannabe should read one or two. They provide an insight into the female romantic mind set. No an instruction manual for sure, but they might teach you a new use for goldfish.
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PA: It was worse then got better. Government reacts to people complaining in UK; it seems to be a big factor in how members of parliament get and keep their seats. It’s never going to be perfect and private should always be kept on as an option for those who can afford it. Big government-centred problem’s funds being tied up in unnecessary bureaucracy and corners being cut to meet insane targets.
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“on April 6, 2009 at 8:01 pm Gunslingergregi
So anyway I gamed this new chick that has a masters degree to be my bitch. Kind of cool plus she has access to a 400 k loan. he he he”
Lieing on this one trying to go along with the theme of the blog today. But really though this chick is trying to game me. Bringing me sodas and shit. Telling me how her dad runs shit back home and plenty of jobs. Shit like that. Anyway just thought it was funny. Knows I want to buy houses to rent talks about 400k loan. Trying to chameleon into my perfect type woman. Anyway just picturing how easy life could be for a guy he he he.
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Because it is awesome dude.
With the exception of my niece and nephew, if you worship me, you’re a stupid twit who can’t do any better.
David you are handing over your income via high taxation if you make pretty good money, and you are losing your personal freedom anyway.
As long as I can go roadgeeking, and travel to Europe (or Australia) every year to ride trains, have my own home, and buy photography equipment, I’ll be pretty content. Obviously, full blown socialism of course can put a crimp in that, but as I should have stated, the personal freedom in marriage is stifling and not worth the costs compared to the personal freedom of singlehood. If we can maintain the status quo with marginal rates creeping up to 45-55%, then I can tolerate it.
you probably would eshew decent, fairly attractive woman-after-woman so that you could chase big-assed porn starlets that you find attractive, and that would be your right, because YOU could pay for that indulgence
Of course, I’d do that. Mind you, the problem is that if women aren’t “paid” to go away, they’re going to convince legions of beta males that they’re wonderful and lovable when they’re not. If we could achieve a system where women could bang the alphas with minimal cost and interference to beta males, then I’d advocate for it, otherwise, I’d be willing to pay the women to go away and leave men alone.
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“‘”””Default User
In a way, yes. Unreachable alpha male that the heroine worships. A man who may be oblivious, or at least cool, to her. Challenges for her to pass before she can get her man. Fantastic sex knee trembling sex. All spoiled by some sappy wedding in the end.””””
Never read one now I get what that chick in high school meant when she said I was like a harliquen romance. No marriage at the end though.
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Max from Oz
Fine cool info. Knew you’d know.
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Even if we assume that a federal agency is unconstitutional (e.g., Dept. of Education), we still need to determine whether its functions were necessary. If not, then it could be eliminated,
“Necessary” does not always mean the government should do it.
The only difference is that the poor Cubans learnt to read and write, lucked out with better food, decent basic healthcare, and better shelter.
Every single one of these is a myth – testimony to the one thing that Communism is actually good at (propaganda).
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Once in the Army during a lengthy stay at a very isolated location I found a Harlequin novel, and read it part out of boredom, part out of horny curiousity.
Um, it wasn’t much good as erotic material (males and females are stimulated by different things; who’d have thunk!) but in retrospect, Harlequins do reveal the secrets of Game to anyone perceptive enough to notice (which I wasn’t, but another commenter on this thread was)
I ended up beatin’ off to a photo of a fully-clothed woman in an ad at the back of my road atlas. And after so many days of keepin’ it in, gawd that was hott!
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With the exception of my niece and nephew, if you worship me, you’re a stupid twit who can’t do any better.
Thus Spaketh the Untermensch
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PA, don’t turn into a combo of j5 and tupac
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Which one of those guys had previously confessed to having failed to discern the Harlequin Code or having to make do with a family camper ad?
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All three are fine alphas, in different ways.
I imagine the two non marrieds will some years down the line go into live in LTRs, or several in succession, some at least of at least several years standing. (Like me post my divorce more than 15 years ago.) They might do it married and they might not. Not married is a lot wiser. Or prenuped to mimic not married, financially.
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lol pa beating off to the chick in a road atlas. I thank god for my great memory. I just play movies from the past.
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Default User: GOLDFISH?! That ain’t in your typical Harlequin! I want the title of that. Times change, but you must’ve been reading another romance novel or maybe their Blaze line.
I grant you the ending’s not what I look forward to, but more what’s reassuring. You know it’s going to end happily, which is boring, but not upsetting like a death/then they parted & he disappeared off to conquer someone else. There’s a theory that a big hook for the romance novels are ‘taming the alpha male’ and ‘getting him to commit’. Overall, I find it very interesting that you think not only is the ending not special but actually ruinous.
The romance subgenre most in touch with an alpha as a hero is historical romances, though Harlequin’s Presents and titles such as ‘The Sicilian Milloinaire’s Virgin Mistress’ or ‘Traded to The Sheikh’ can emphasise this as well.
If any of you are looking to see what Default User’s on about:
— 16 free ebooks offered by Harlequin thanks to its anniversary (note the NASCAR one!):
http://www.harlequincelebrates.com/
— look me up so that I can recommend ones which are of known brilliant quality. So you don’t feel that bad reading it. Off the top of my head: Lord of Scoundrels.
Gunny: that also means yes should be to the question of whether you are broad-shouldered and had a smouldering gaze? (EYES ON FIRE BABY! I always wondered how romance heroes pulled that off without ruining their eyes; they must learn magic tricks from Mystery.)
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Never say that I don’t look after you guys.
You can download your romance for free.
http://www.eharlequin.com/store.html?cid=1317
Given that the first title is called Baby Bonanza, I am not sure any of you will bother.
🙂
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Bhetti I think my best attribute is that I don’t get tired in the sense of normal people.
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Bhetti
NASCAR romance. LOL!
I did not see that one. Maybe it is not such a loss after all.
Regarding the “goldfish” book, you are probaly right that it was not a Harlequin. Can’t remember the title either.
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rationing
Interestingly, that’s an issue that my cousins from Canada don’t understand. Up there, they’ll hear that we don’t have “healthcare” in America, and they seem to be surprised when I say that Americans *can* recieve treatment. We don’t have a shortage of treatment, but our problem is that some Americans are unable to *pay* for their treatment due to a lack of insurance or underinsurance. One of the easier ways to get around this is to basically place the uninsured under Medicaid and have co-pays based on sliding scale for income.
It’s easy to say “just do it” but there is the whole thing about being overwhelmed
IIRC, at the time, despite being based on US curriculum in English, civil engineering degrees from Haiti were unaccepted, and thus, my dad couldn’t even sit for the licensing exam. He went back to school, and then I was born, and I sorta ruined their lives…
Don’t equate being in a relationship with a woman to porn.
Relationships are pointless when beta males are incapable of being loved or desired, and said relationships are based on falsehoods and lies designed to trap the male. Yes, the touch is there, but a real life girl is less appealing than her porn star counterpart, and emotions are all fake.
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Default User: GOLDFISH?! That ain’t in your typical Harlequin! I want the title of that. Times change, but you must’ve been reading another romance novel or maybe their Blaze line
Bhetti I was thinking the very same thing. So who are your favorite harlequin authors? I prefer the HP line. Jacqueline Baird and Charlotte Lamb(RIP) are two of my favorite HP writers.
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I don’t see why anyone would want to read Nascar romance or the hospital worker romance stuff. I’m not in to the paranormal stuff either.
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Bhetti
While I was joking about the “spoiled” ending, there is an element of truth to it.
Once the alpha has been tamed she might lose that sense of excitment (and her attraction). He will no longer be the man she wanted so badly. If the man allows himself to be pussified she might have to go through that angst all over again. Our alpha hero better have very good marriage game (or the rights to the sequel novel:)).
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That is why default ltr the woman has to dream about one day maybe you will just be with just her. But the reallity is you do fuck other woman with her knowledge. Keeps the love kindled. Plus every time she knows you love her for more than just pussy but also as a person. Since you just fucked another woman and didn’t leave her. Then you know when your both 80 sure it can just be her.
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Bhetti, chic noir
You are both correct. It was likely not a Harlequin. It may have been Jackie collins or Jilly Cooper (or similar).
From here:
http://archive.theargus.co.uk/2008/5/19/256478.html
Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
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default- Miranda lee writes for HP and she wrote one book for the blaze line. Her stuff is hot hot hot. Most men can enjoy her writing….I think.
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chic: Harlequin Presents? Mortimer and Jordan seem to be consistently good. If you like Presents and I like it more than I should, I think our presence on this site is partially explained. Can’t stand the sheik ones, though. I can’t get over the fact that it’s douginn dressed in an Arab’s clothing; as opposed to just putting him in a business suit where he belongs. The hospital ones help me feel like I’m not slacking off my studies too much thanks to being researched quite well and usually written by someone in the business. Same reason I watch House.
Default: Your link seems more user-friendly than mine! The NASCAR ones have not leaked over to the UK, must get ’round to that ebook for the fun. Jilly Cooper is a did-not-finish from me: “bonkbusters” and/or her writing ain’t my style.
PA: You mean this doesn’t do it for you/you failed to notice the clues like this (extract from one I have):
Exhbit A:
“She was breathing hard in her indignation, her chin raised challengingly, nipples roused beneath her robe”
Dialogue, probably perfect save if she’s “thinking about it”:
Him: “If it takes you so long to decide, maybe you should just forget I asked!”
Her:”Maybe we should [go to dinner],”…
More dialogue:
Her: “I was only–”
Him: “Kit, I know what you were “only”,” he cut in forcefully. “And I don’t appreciate it!”
Another tidbit:
Her: “And they say women get a long time to get ready!” she joked weakly. [I believe the PUA phrase is… shit-test?]
Him: “I was delayed by a telephone call.” he came back swiftly.
Her: “Andrea? [the hot ex]”
Him: “How very astute of you!”
From His Very Personal Assistant by Carole Mortimer, in a collection titled Taken by the Boss.
Do you want the author to beat you around the head with it or something?
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Why is Roissy still dragging his aging, mousse-topped self to cabarets in search of number closes? By now, shouldn’t his surefire game have netted him a double-digit rotation of women who want to hit it with him every weekend?
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Gunslingergregi
Hmm! I never thought about the alpha magic that way. It is not the fact that you wander that matters, it is the fact that you return.
[Am I understanding your point correctly]
chic noir
I’ll keep a look out for Miranda Lee, so long as her stuff does not involve the sacrifice of small fish. That stuff will scar you for life.
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BhettiIf you like Presents and I like it more than I should, I think our presence on this site is partially explained
Bhetti I love HP. I perfer the stuff written in the 80’s ,except it’s not PC.
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Bhetti
Care to explain to me?
[He asked fixing her with smoldering eyes and a devilish grin (all while wondering about the empty goldfish bowl)]
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Yea default kind of proves her worth. Since the whiles of other woman cannot remove her from your heart/life. She knows she is alpha woman.
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Otherwise what other test would prove that she was the only woman who could hold you.
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Gunny-
pssst.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/escape-from-dc/#comment-63998
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My prevous ramblings are under moderation, lets see if this gets through.
Re #1
I wonder what reaction you would have got if you asked her opinion on sexual socialism. What if the government charged women a sex tax where they had to have sex with the sexually underprivileged. The hotter the woman the more sex she would have to have with losers. Any gain of weight or reduction in a woman’s attractiveness would be considered sex-tax evasion and result in stiff sex fines. The pathetically inept would be given preferential access to beautiful women through the use of progressive sexual taxation policy.
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Basically, the Presents heroes are known for being… asses. The titles ocassionally have things like ‘ruthless’ and ‘revenge’ in them often, which reflects this.
http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/2/4/2/1/3/pages242137/p242137-19.php
Feminist criticism of the line:
“These heroines, however, are the victims of
gender stereotypes who are forced into submissive roles in order to win and maintain the love of the hero
who prefers a complacent woman whom he will make submit to his will through problematic means:
dominance, blackmail and seduction.”
Please stop with the eyes & grin. The simultaneous amusement and inexplicable heated attraction will combine to kill me!
The (fictional) goldfish fell victim to the (fictional) cat, what else?
dougjnn: The man is decently married/committed and I don’t know anything about him (and lurker’s on my top spot). Stop with your crazy matchmaking, mother-in-law/businessman-pretending-to-be-sheik. It’d be like wanting a romance novel hero as my actual partner instead of rooting for the heroine. It’s just wrong, dude, just WRONG.
I think this is the best time to tell you all that tokyo has killed himself — saying something about me being the only one who has loved him making him realise something — and I have been pretending to be him to continue his noble memory.
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“throws a large trout at doug hits him in the head”
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Accepts the foolishness with equanimity, as the price of dispensing wisdom. Which will eventually be appreciated.
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I chose a name that was tragically fitting of what he does: ‘contrarian’. I hope all of you will go forth to blogs, find a random quote and disagree with it — alluding to illogic or lack of perfect scientific method, perhaps irrelevance to the argument — in his memory. I have been deeply saddened but have had time to get over it.
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Bhetti–
This is so funny / strange. Like a little psychedelic. Not completely deranged and incoherent, but bordering.
My “crazy matchmaking” is light playing babe. Why the upset.?
Especially since you know I like you. Usually.
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Bhetti
Leaving aside blackmail (blackmail game anyone?), dominance and seduction are pretty much what women want right?
[Yeah I know it was a feminist critique – ain’t that cute – and not necessarily your opinion]
Are you saying that you think we (the men that post here) are asses? Vengeful? Ruthless?
BTW: Are devilish grin and smoldering eyes meant to be delivered separately? Never together?
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The upset of course is a combo of 1) how close to the mark it was and 2) how in conflict with Bhetti’s belief system it is.
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Bhetti
Lurker being on your “top spot” is classic LJBF for life stuff. Sell it elsewhere to someone who doesn’t know the score girlfriend.
I don’t know (much) whether you’d feel real heated sexual attraction for lurker if you met him in person, but I can say definitively that you haven’t felt that online here. Unless you two have been doing a big time IM thing outside of here or something. And then hiding that perfectly here. Yeah, right.
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Hmmm, nice roissy. So what the hell do you end up recomending we do? Feel them out? It seems that every time I use asshole game it works really well at first, and then when the chick catches on, it stops working. I think because she realizes that I’m doing it too much on purpose (or that would be your answer to me). Any advice out there on how to keep your asshole game aloof?
If you asked me to answer my own question I would say that it has to do with how much communication you do. The less communication at first the better, lots of silence and lots of aloofness combined with asshole game combined with cocky comedy combined with a few sweet comments here or there that she can treasure sounds about right.
Ben, if you’re on here reply to reddit message!
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Doug get a hold of yourself man (slaps)
Form a line folks
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Socialism can only succeed in racially/ethnically homogeneous nations where people truly to perceive themselves to be a truly united nation, ‘one people’ as it were; for instance, see Japan before the massive drop in birth rates caused them to import a ton of immigrants; the pre-1990 socialism of the Scandinavian and Northern European countries before they imported too many immigrants; National Socialist Germany; etc.
Once a country ceases to be racially/ethnically homogeneous and becomes a multicultural sewer overrun by immigrants which are not the same race/ethnicity, socialism can never succeed there.
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Socialist healthcare in the UK worked like a charm for the native British until millions of non-White immigrants went to the UK and clogged their system all up.
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Socialist healthcare in the UK worked like a charm for the native British until millions of non-White immigrants went to the UK and clogged their system all up.
Thus, if those non-White immigrants were all replaced on a one to one ratio at similar IQ, NHS would be more functional?
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universal health care is commie speak.
yup, and you commies and socialists can go fuck yourselves after obama meets up with a three named freedom fighter.
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How’s this for rightspeak, tunaman? – “We have solved the problem of production, now we have to solve the problem of distribution.” – Benito Mussolini: 6 October, 1934
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PA: I know you’re a married man and all, but others may read: this is a great way to figure out if you’re talking to an evil Russian fembot, or a classical proud old world woman who will raise strong sons. Every Russian knows the story:
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/history/28-05-2007/92303-gay_parade-0
There is no middle ground. Proper Russian women will stand next to the Babushkas and Skinheads, even if they’re of a race (say, like Armenian) that the Skinheads would also like to stomp. That’s believing in right and wrong. It’s not that they hate gay people (though some doubtless do); it’s just that they feel the proper way for people to behave doesn’t involve public simulations of buttsex. Contrast that to SWPL skanks who think the hottest thing evar is two guys sucking each other’s dicks or cowboy homos giving each other sloppy wet kisses and the reach around. Jayzus; what kind of choice is that? I’ll take future Skinhead Babushka any day. Utter moral decadence is not hot.
Bhetti or Dhimmi or whatever your name is: I’ve forgotten more about oxytocin than you’ll ever know. I can tell you this: it’s not a hormone involved with rational thought. Which is why a man is stupidest right after he blows his load.
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Mussolini inspired the New Deal, in fact FDR copied much of his program. Both Mussolini and that Austrian Watercolorist were essentially Left. Including a massive state that put it’s tentacles everywhere, anathema to the old Right of private spheres and social institutions.
————
Z — Good take on women’s motivation, Government as beta provider. Of course, most men are not like DA, if they are paying for some chick’s bad-boy escapades … and not getting anything in return, their support drops to zero.
Kudos to “how about socialism of sex? Hot chicks and guys with ugly ones of the opposite (or same) gender?”
After all, what’s more in limited supply than sex with a hot chick?
——-
Re: WHY are so many more women wanting assholes? I’ve noticed that out here in LA. Women seem CRAZY for assholes. The bigger asshole the better.
Why?
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dougjnn: I’m certainly not upset! I was talking a light tone about it as well as it being… 5 am, then? which is why it should’ve been psychedelic/funny. Apologies for the misunderstanding. Of course you were on the money, and there’s plenty of evidence loitering around for that; it’s not like I want to do anything about it. All you did was point it out so starkly which just has made me get hormonal flushes that are keeping me awake.
You and lurker and gunny are about as real as romance novel heroes to me at the moment. I’ve thought about it before you said anything and you were more on the ‘love’ side, lurker was somewhere in the middle and gunny was definitely more attraction. That makes lurker top, with the ideal mix! I certainly don’t even want to go near anyone in real life, because it IS incompatible with a lot of things.
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missing your point, obvious – unless I am wrong it seems like you are agreeing with me? we need a project valkyrie in the ole US of a
‘
BTW, FDR was also a fucking nightmare for US and anti democratic and anti capitalist.. almost puked when I was at the memorial last weekend on my beta cherry blossom date…
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Lupo: I’m hearing you. Rational thought =/= oxytocin. It’s addictive.
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Roissy,
any thoughts or data on who is more beta, demos or republicans?
I am guessing libertarians are the most alpha, but can see arguments for why Rs and Ds would both be betas or alphas depending.. thoughts?
I think obama is trying to make all of us his beta bitches…
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Did Bhetti just neg me wtf
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and not getting anything in return
Women not pretending to love me is the return. Sadly, most other men are too delusional to figure this out, and so many have this foolish hope that somebody will love them.
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“cringes” doug got put in the friend zone.
Yea Doug if you do realize that codename chick is also wanting me just relax about it. He He He
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Bhetti
Bhetti this is completely unfair. When you’re this nakedly sweet and revealing, it just makes me want to protect you from everything bad.
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Socialist trolls can find plenty of politics websites on the web. Don’t know why they need this one too.
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Constrain supply, subsidize demand, and you can grow a health-care crisis too.
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Be willing to die for something dave and a woman will love you.
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Gunslingergregi–
Learn to recognize a dead eyed shot when you see one Greg.
And not to look a mentor with a lot to offer in the mouth.
that later will be VERY expensive to you if you persist. In fact you’re unlikely to get rich if you go that way. It’s not impossible but the likelihood goes way down.
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Here is a classic case of the efficiency and effectivness of free-market / private policing in Action
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25302693-421,00.html
A MELBOURNE father’s speedy rescue of his two kidnapped sons has embarrassed Swedish police, who struggled with the case for six months.
Armed with just a pair of binoculars and a rental car, it took the dad only one week to find his missing sons, aged 11 and ten, in Sweden.
“It is a genuine failing mark to the work of the police,” columnist Lars Lindstrom wrote in the Swedish newspaper Expressen.
“(The father) went on leave, flew from Melbourne to Sweden and found them in a week. How did that happen?”
The boys were allegedly abducted in October last year…After a week of waiting, he crept out of his car under the cover of night and walked towards the front door.
For the first time in six months, he heard the sounds of his sons’ voices coming from inside the building.
“I didn’t even know the children were alive. The feeling was incredible,” the father told Expressen.
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cool max
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Default:
Leaving aside blackmail (blackmail game anyone?), dominance and seduction are pretty much what women want right?
[Yeah I know it was a feminist critique – ain’t that cute – and not necessarily your opinion]
Are you saying that you think we (the men that post here) are asses? Vengeful? Ruthless?
BTW: Are devilish grin and smoldering eyes meant to be delivered separately? Never together?
The Presents is basically as undiluted form as you can get of the “dominant”. The Presents men are much more flawed, less idealistically sanitised. There is something perceived to be ruthless about a man being utterly sexual and treating a woman only for that purpose, ‘revenge’ takes the form of treating the heroine like she’s there for physical relations and nothing else; using the physical attraction to get into her mind, soul and so on. He can suspect a virgin of being a whore, which apparently gives him some license to treat her badly then realise the error of his ways later when he realises her true, pure, untouched nature.
You can see where the parallels are here, especially with the harsh way roissy’s language goes. Game = seducing/using a woman for sex = decreasing from her “value” as a Decent Lady = ruthless/vengeful. The commenters are vastly varied, so no real reflection on them from this.
I enjoy a lot more romances than just the Presents and don’t have a specific love for them, but the ability to like a Presents because of certain elements is telling on what I can mentally tolerate.
Devilish grin + searing gaze: they are potent weapons in one’s arsenal, best used seperately since they imply different moods and are entirely too volatile when mixed.
Gunny: None of you are losing out really, ’cause I’m not particularly hot.
doug: You expected me to have mercy upon you?!
It’s also now 7 am. This is your fault.
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Default: Oh, actually, witness exchange with doug there. He suspects me of foul play & goes for my jugular and instead of descending with (possibly feminist) rage, I am apparently ‘nakedly sweet and revealing’, things are resolved, happily ever after. That’s a Presents book!
Some critics will have their doubts about whether doug was is in fact a jerk or not, especially if he does the same thing repeatedly.
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Doug yea I really am commited to one woman already, but do have thoughts of what a few could do for me lol
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Of course every man could use a bhetti in his arsenal no?
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Nice post today,
haven’t heard from an honest dude like this in awhile,
thanks.
(makes me feel a little better)
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Comment_Whatever:
“Why yes, it does. Celebrities and athletes are big earners as a result of draconian weeding out where 99% of those that try fail. Why shouldn’t an SWPL hate it that some low-born makes money, no matter how hard it was for them to get there?
It’s about who you know, not what you know. Of course, it is impolite for the ‘decent’ SWPL to say it. But that’s what she means, and that’s what she BELIEVES.”
Honestly can’t tell if you are nodding or shaking your head. I don’t disagree with your comment. My despondence stemmed from the disparity of thought-parallels this chica and I had arrived at before this fateful night. Her sense of entitlement baffled me and turned an 8 into a 4. My intermediate train of thought saw a greater beta wifing her up in 3 years to a grandiose ceremony and a lifestyle of less than 50% acquiesance. At the time, I was turned off enough to nuke the pump and dump avenue.
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“”””””Bhetti,
You and lurker and gunny are about as real as romance novel heroes to me at the moment. I’ve thought about it before you said anything and you were more on the ‘love’ side, lurker was somewhere in the middle and gunny was definitely more attraction. That makes lurker top, with the ideal mix! I certainly don’t even want to go near anyone in real life, because it IS incompatible with a lot of things.”””””””
And Bhetti for future reference the above is how guys get killed on a daily basis. Which probably makes woman feel valuable. But you probably already knew that from your books. The thing is if a woman tells a man that she is considering that her choice is between him and two other men it is not really a turn on for a man with options. Even Bhetti who considers herself not good looking demands kill game. Now if you select one and make it known that is different if it is known that you had options. See the difference. Otherwise its like is she a ho. Or that woman can at least make one descision. For your future doctor game maybe.
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Absinthe
If I might resume to do so, I would like to attempt to distill Whiskeys comment about females inherent preference for political systems that are rigid… and unchanging.
The main point is that they want to be able to know from the start which guys to fuck in order to be on the winning side. With a very predictable arrangement – like for example a Court under an absolute monarch – the womenfolk must have been in heaven. It was frozen in stone which guy was going to rise in the system and which was not. Therefore, they did not have to worry about the opportunity costs involved with fucking a potential loser-dude.
Contrast that to a level playing field, free for all. The real winners amongst the guys might not be obvious until 30 something.
This would add a lot of stress for the would be star-fuckers.
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rights are like gods: fictional… you don’t have any, and anything done under the pretense of either is deceit to a different end.
you have no rights. but more importantly, you do not have a “mind”, a “personality”, a “psyche” or a “self”. the only reason you believe that you have a “self” is because it behooves you (in a “darwinian” survive-to-reproduce sense) to be selfish.
every single action a human ever does is for their own absolute benefit.
all of these political arguments are bullshit for the same reason: they suppose that there is something- usually a word in the vicinity of “civilisation”- special about humanity. every political position is hence as arbitrary as the next.
(this is a beautiful image btw) does the osprey have the right to take the fish?
WE ARE JUST ANIMALS. not smart animals, not special animals…
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What a disgusting series of posts.
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Oh, no Roissy… there are still some girls out there (like me) who appreciate, dream of, and hope for… someone who is not an asshole. I don’t fall for the “Nuke” style game; that completely repels me. I like the nice game you describe, when you joke with the girl about grooming her friend. That would have gotten you my number and a date, for sure. Any of the other things would have gotten you deleted from my phone and life.
Please… don’t give up hope. Really, I hope men reading this aren’t influenced to be assholes, too. There are some good girls out there who like … (gasp) nice guys who approach like gentlemen.
Oh… and I don’t go to bars or clubs expecting to meet ANYone suitable to date. So that may be part of the problem!
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The following scenario should sound mighty familiar to Americans, who are currently under the heel of the international Zioplutocrat moneymaster control-freaks:
“Our present obscenity of a government represses the working classes while protecting the loot of bankers and stock swindlers. It has become a hotbed of ruthless privateers and disgusting swindlers and pushers. The scoundrels have no regard for their fellow man and countryman, no concept of ethics whatsoever. Today the most brutal power of all, that of money, rules unencumbered. It exercises its destructive influence over government, nation, society, manners, culture, literature and every other civilized institution.” – http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Program_of_the_NSDAP
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The commercial leaders both large and small, heavy industry or small fabrication shop, have just one goal: profit. They yearn for just one thing: credit. And they actively oppose just one thing: taxes. They have great fear and boundless respect for banks. But they have a mere shrug of the shoulders for the National Socialist demand for the abolition of debt slavery. Everybody is in a rush to incur debt. People think it is perfectly in order for banks to effortlessly make huge profits from interest.
People formed peculiar business parties and voted for the Dawes Act, the chief cause of our massive tax burden. People hurl themselves into interest slavery, and then complain about taxes and interest rates. They swoon with respect while in the presence of the bankers and stock exchange pirates. Peoples’ brains are confused!
Our entire economy has been debased, depersonalized, and converted into stock corporations. The productive element of society has delivered themselves into the hands of their worst enemy, finance capital. Deeply in debt, those who produce value in workshop, factory and office receive scant reward. All surplus value flows into the pockets of the anonymous plutocracy, in the form of interest and dividends. The people who mortgaged their economic rationality do not know how to control the resulting chaos.
From above, they suffer extortion through taxes and interest. From below, subterranean rumblings of the labouring masses threaten them. In stupefied blindness they embrace finance capital with its favoured political structures. The bloodsuckers and profiteers from chaos keep them as slave drivers to control the labouring masses.
– http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Program_of_the_NSDAP
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“13. We demand the nationalization of all heretofore-incorporated trusts.
14. We demand profit sharing on the part of major corporations.
15. We demand a generous increase in old age benefits.
16. We demand the creation of a viable middle class with means of subsistence, the immediate nationalization of major department stores, and reduced rents for small businesses. We demand special consideration for small businesses when contracting with national, state and local governments.”
tisk tisk
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i think the lot of ya should suck my balls
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I, like any decent person, am an anarcho-libertarian. Electing the black socialist Obama was unforgivable and I won’t be happy until I see his supporters starving in the street. This insane stimulus will be a disaster and economic ruin sooner or later. We need a cleansing rain of hot lead.
Damn, Mark in Ark, as a card carrying member of the VRWC I think I love you.
LOL
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Default User
Gunslingergregi
…Plus every time she knows you love her for more than just pussy but also as a person. Since you just fucked another woman and didn’t leave her…
Hmm! I never thought about the alpha magic that way. It is not the fact that you wander that matters, it is the fact that you return.
[Am I understanding your point correctly]
I’ll disagree with you here, guys.
She’ll stay with an alpha who fucks around not because she knows you love her, but because she hopes you’ll love her.
You can say all the pretty words to her about how much she means to you, and it’s just something you need to get out of your system, but she’ll know that it’s really because you want to get your dick wet somewhere else.
It’s a matter of how long she’s prepared to put up with that, and what’s in it for her.
When there is no hope, all the blandishments in the world won’t keep her there. Not words of love, not money, not promises of marriage.
That’s unless she’s a mercenary skank, of course, and then she’ll put up with everything you dish out until someone with more money/power comes along.
In that case, there wasn’t the emotional commitment you thought you had.
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That’s unless she’s a mercenary skank, of course, and then she’ll put up with everything you dish out until someone with more money/power comes along.
Gunner’s argument for male philandering is compelling. I admit that I’ve never seen that angle before: to paraphrase, “since you’re still with your woman and not your hot little fling, you value her for more than just sex.”
But our esteemed Aussie reactionary is right. (By the way, I do esteem Aussie badasses: your boys didn’t take crap from roving bands of gang-raping, beach-disrupting Leb Morlocks 2-3 years ago.)
Anyway, with marriage there comes a commitment to be faithful. If not, then what were those vows about “forsaking all others” for? By the way, it feels good to pass on a cute homewrecker’s offer, as I know from experience. Felt a lot better than if I had taken her up on it.
To illustrate Nilk’s point, think of Carmela Soprano, who tolerated Tony’s mistresses so long as he kept his affairs discrete. She didn’t love him; she just knew he’s the be$t game in town, that’s all.
Besides, as a patriatrch, to respect the family you’re heading, you gotta respect your wife. And it’s hard to respect her when she doesn’t expect faithfulness.
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goldoildrugz and Whiskey
A nation,no matter how small,is “too big to fail.”How do you like them apples?
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Does that include property rights and the inalienable right of “the pursuit of happiness?”
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David Alexander
David, I really want to unload on you for you constant self-pitying hopelessness. But I am not sure I want to waste the energy. However bad you story is, mine is likely worse. So all I will say is this:
I am not the most alpha of guys, I am not particularly good looking, I don’t have exceptional game. Yet I have had the affection and physical ministrations of great women. These were attractive, sensuous, warm and wonderful creatures. Not some no-hope can’t-do-better acts of desperation. Warm flesh and blood, not cold pixels. There was no magic involved, but it did involve digging myself out of a hole, a deep hole.
I don’t regret much, but what I do regret (and I mean tears welling in the eye regret) is the precious time I wasted doing nothing but feel sorry for myself. It was not easy. It is not easy. But meeting challenges is part of being a man. You will take your knocks and lick your wounds, but you will feel more alive.
There endeth the lecture.
[I guess I found some energy to unload]
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Seeking Alpha:
“Now I agree, I don’t particularly care about the landscaper or construction worker who wanted to get paid three times as much as the Mexican immigrant. But then the smart ones just started their own business and hired a bunch of cheap Mexican labor. Meanwhile me and my family (who I’m looking out for) all get cheaper services.”
You seem to really believe that there are no meaningful consequences to importing huge numbers of third world immigrants.
Reality: there are consequences. Big ones. They aren’t just going to serve you, dude. They aren’t just your little toys. They become a real constituency over time, a power bloc. You may be atomized, but they aren’t. Which is why they reject the very libertarian principles that you advocate. They understand reality far better than the raceless libertarian.
Over time, they are going to have some plans of their own, and that doesn’t include providing you with an everlasting supply of cheap toys. They are going to vote for big government candidates (they already are – astonishing that you claimed this is “unlikely.” Check the 2008 vote returns).
They are going to pursue their group interests to get a bigger share of the loot, from affirmative action to set asides to fully funded transfer payments to whatever. Since you don’t believe in groups (despite all the realities around you), you are powerless to stop them. They will win. Hell, people who act as a group are already winning – which is why government ignores the libertarian and spends trillions upon trillions of tax money every year. The libertarian simply doesn’t understand any of this. He just can’t understand why the government keeps ignoring him. Wow, what a brain teaser.
Third world immigrants have all sorts of other side benefits as well: they bring in more crime, scoop up the affordable housing, harm the schools, lower wages in those areas that they compete most strongly in, and so forth. Further, their very presence encourages political correctness, and additional restrictions on freedom of speech and association.
Good ol’ hardworking Third Worlders! Come on in, cheap labor is so worth it!
Roissy was absolutely correct that libertarians are willfully ignorant of externalities. They are so caught up in ideology, an ideology that only allows them to focus on narrow, short term transactions – Wow, I got someone to cut my lawn on the cheap!!!! – that they cannot process the bigger picture.
You could literally import 400 million Chinese tomorrow, making them an absolute majority in the country, controlling its political system and turning it into a de facto colony of China and, shit you not, there would be libertarians who would praise their new overlords as “hard working”, and gush over the cheap prices at all the new Chinese restaurants that would be everywhere. Raceless libertarians are, much like the liberals they claim to oppose, simply crazy cultists.
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nilk
I found Gunslinger’s idea interesting. Like you, I am not sure I completely buy it.
I do believe that the effects of male and female infidelity are very different.
The woman is far more likely to move her loyalty and emotional attachment to the new man. She is more likely to lose emotional attachment for the original man (the cheatee?). Her sexual attraction for the original man will fall, perhaps completely disappear.
The man is less likely to transfer emotional attachment to the mistress (despite what he might tell her). Charged up with dopamine and testosterone he might even be able to provide for his wife with a newfound swagger.
While I don’t condone cheating (a man’s word should be his bond), I believe the cost is lower when the man does it.
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Ryder
Nicely said.
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Cheap labor (Capitalism),cheap cause (Leftism),cheap thrills (Female-ism).
Different parts of the same whole.
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Seeking Alpha was too candid:
Very few people are uncompetitive in the free market. Except for the mentally handicapped, even a low IQ person can do manual labor.
As a libertarian, I don’t think a Mexican immigrant is just as capable of doing my job as I am.
and
Now I agree, I don’t particularly care about the landscaper or construction worker who wanted to get paid three times as much as the Mexican immigrant. But then the smart ones just started their own business and hired a bunch of cheap Mexican labor. Meanwhile me and my family (who I’m looking out for) all get cheaper services
Seeking Alpha is primarily unconcerned with cheap Mexican’s because they won’t lower HIS wages.
Now, the reason many American’s support immigration is because they fall for Seeking Alpha’s little con. That men just need to ‘compete better’. And the ‘better men’ still win.
American’s, and especially women, LOVE male competition and as long as Seeking Alpha can wildly lie that the ‘best man’ is still ‘winning’ they will support it. So will capitalist jabbers.
Which is why I shut down the Tood when I told him that I’m BETTER than the H1-B’s, but that doesn’t matter because they are paid a third what I am! So my wages ARE going down, no matter what!
That puts the ‘better man’ firmly in the losing position and put’s lie to the whole thing.
Of course, the next cop-out is ‘just switch jobs’. This makes sense to people like seeky, and others who don’t have real jobs that are actually hard, because a monkey could learn to do their job in a few days.
Engineering jobs don’t really work that way. After years, you are still doing your job better. So what happens is you take a massive hit in ability if you ‘just switch’.And in any case, engineering jobs are all under pressure.
Leave the engineering field entirely? I could just burn the 4 years in college I wasted, right Seeky?
Again, the bold words of Seeky, make sense so long as you don’t actually care whether they make sense.
To get down to the core, it doesn’t matter how much better X is than Y, if Y is paid 1/4 to a 1/3 as much. X wage’s are going down, down, down.
The only valid discussion is do we want to lower all wages in America to that of the third world.
I nominate Seeky’s job as the next one to be lowered.
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The above comment is mine.
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Excellent insights,Comment_whatever.
Same goes to Ryder.
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Excellent insights,Comment_whatever.
Same goes to Ryder.
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Excellent insights,Comment_whatever.
Same goes to Ryder.
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Chuck, responding to your earlier comment, when the bailout originally happened, both sides of the aisle called for panic, and we didn’t have much information about it. I’ll admit I bought into it.
Now, more than 7 months later, after we’ve learned about it and seen the bailouts didn’t work, I would go back and stop the original help we offered. Bush was wrong to do that.
But claiming Bush’s 1 bailout is equal to Obama’s wealth redstribution and multiple bailouts and earmarks is comparing a knife wound tot he thigh to a drive by.
And Obama being black has a ton to do with his politics. He’s capitalized on SWPLers knee-jerk Affirmative Action when he is profoundly unqualified to be president, and consistently seeks to blame the white man and racism for all of the problems he sees. Heck, his mom went on a “I’m going to sleep with everyone who’s not white” bender, which is why he has aunts and siblings he doesn’t know about.
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I don’t particularly care about the landscaper or construction worker who wanted to get paid three times as much as the Mexican immigrant.
Given SA’s expression of avarice and of utter lack of solidarity with his fellow Americans who are working class, let’s hope for his sake that he’ll never need to depend on help from a couple of redneck families in some hairy situation.
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@Comment_Whatever…
This makes sense to people like seeky, and others who don’t have real jobs that are actually hard, because a monkey could learn to do their job in a few days.
Then why haven’t they? Because they really, really like me?
To get down to the core, it doesn’t matter how much better X is than Y, if Y is paid 1/4 to a 1/3 as much. X wage’s are going down, down, down.
Of course it matters how much. If you are only slightly better than Y, then you should be paid slightly more. If you are much better, you’ll be paid much more. If an illiterate immigrant offered to design circuits for Intel for $2/hour, would they hire them? Of course not.
Maybe the answer is, like the UAW autoworkers or the i-bank paper pusher idiots, you were simply over paid. You got a good deal for awhile, and you were lucky for it, but you were lured into complacency. You convinced yourself that you were OWED that salary.
That’s a liberal opinion. No one owes you anything. You’re worth as much as someone is willing to pay you. If you can’t convince them to pay your high salary, that’s your own fault.
And @ Ryder – there are more groups than race. I support the group interests of the hard workers who want lower taxes and less government. I admit, I don’t care about some poor, lazy, white guy who convinced himself he DESERVES to be overpaid for easy work.
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I don’t care about some poor, lazy, white guy who convinced himself he DESERVES to be overpaid for easy work.
What about a poor hard working white guy who needs to charge you more for doing your roof because immigrants have flooded his low-income neighborhood and he needs to live in one he can’t really afford?
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Sorry for the repetition.Having browser problems.
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Given SA’s expression of avarice and of utter lack of solidarity with his fellow Americans who are working class, let’s hope for his sake that he’ll never need to depend on help from a couple of redneck families in some hairy situation.
Most of my friends and neighbors are working class.
My best friend’s dad is a contractor. He offers more than dumb manual labor, he has knowledge. How to build things. He doesn’t whine about cheap Mexican immigrants. He hires them, works alongside them, and is able to provide even MORE for his family than before.
A neighbor is a landscaper. Again, they have knowledge beyond just how to push a lawnmower. They’ve been able to expand their business by offering more competitive prices and a bigger crew size. They’re not complaining, they’re succeeding.
I have nothing but respect for the working class. It’s the whining class I have contempt for. I was taught that when faced with an adverse situation, you don’t whine and blame it on someone else – you adapt, change, and prosper further.
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What about a poor hard working white guy who needs to charge you more for doing your roof because immigrants have flooded his low-income neighborhood and he needs to live in one he can’t really afford?
Nothing but respect. Of course if he’s smart, he’ll be able to afford a bigger work crew because of the lower worker wages and do even better now than he did before.
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the problem:
Nothing but respect.
he doesn’t want your respect, traitor. he wants you to stop supporting open borders.
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@Roissy – As a college educated, professional class worker in liberal DC, I’m sure you have an excellent grasp of what working class contractors want.
From the ones I’m friends with – they support legal immigration like me.
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Open-borders libertarians were satirized well in the character of Carter Burke (Paul Riser) in the 1986 movie “Aliens.”
He was the civilian contractor who accompanied the Space Marines on an expedition to fight the lethal extraterrestrial creatures, with hidden orders form his profit-minded corporate bosses to smuggle some of those aliens back to earth.
If you really respected the working class, you wouldn’t insist that they “adapt” and “change” on your terms.
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traitor:
Potential costs. Higher crime. Lower wages for some. Strain on welfare state.
you forgot:
less affordable housing as whites rush into gated communities.
worse schools.
lowered national IQ and all that entails for the long term.
lowered trust and more unhappiness.
bloc voting.
solid leftie dem base ensuring irrelevancy of opposition party for generations to come.
the complete and utter marginalization of libertarianism in america.
balkanization.
rising socialism and racial hucksterism.
possible forfeiture of the southwest to la raza.
i could go on. human nature is a bitch, ain’t it randboy?
Potential benefit. Lower prices for some.
money illusion.
Increased consumption of goods and services.
neutral.
Better demographics.
you’re joking, right?
Neither of us knows which outweighs which.
actually, i know because i am clear headed about this issue, while you don’t know because you’re attempting to squeeze your square peg of liberdroidiness into the round hole of your emotional bias. the last “benefit” you listed regarding demography gave your gameplan away.
Both sides have ’statistics’ to back up their case.
my statistics beat up your statistics.
Now can you please stop repeating over and over that we don’t ‘get’ externalities. Clearly we do.
if i tell you that in the US we drive on the right side of the road, and you agree with me in the abstract that in the US we drive on the right side of the road but then continue driving on the left side, i would justifiably question your understanding of the word “get”.
If it’s combined with unrestricted legal immigration (barring strict national security, criminal, health checks), then yes, I do. I don’t believe in ‘open borders’.
if 2 billion europeans, americans, brazilians and africans immigrated to japan under the rubric of unrestricted legal immigration, would that:
a. strengthen japan or
b. irrevocably turn japan into a country nothing like japan?
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@PA
If you really respected the working class, you wouldn’t insist that they “adapt” and “change” on your terms.
You’d rather force the entire country to pay more for the benefit of a few.
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You’d rather insist that a whole class of your fellow citizens were dispossessed for the benefit of your cheaper yardwork.
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the problem:
As a college educated, professional class worker in liberal DC, I’m sure you have an excellent grasp of what working class contractors want.
your assumptions need reworking.
From the ones I’m friends with – they support legal immigration like me.
open borders + flood of tens of millions of genetically and culturally antagonistic illegals != legal immigration.
nice sidestep, though.
You’d rather force the entire country to pay more for the benefit of a few.
the entire country is paying right now for the externalities, said externalities which are so clearly the randfag libertoid blindspot.
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You’d rather insist that a whole class of your fellow citizens were dispossessed for the benefit of your cheaper yardwork.
That’s a false assumption. Most contractors thrived through the past decade. They have knowledge and skills the immigrants don’t. They aren’t dispossessed. Quite the opposite. They’re benefiting.
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the entire country is paying right now for the externalities, said externalities which are so clearly the randfag libertoid blindspot.
It’s cute when you go into a rage like this. Like I said, I acknowledge the externalities and disagree about their cost. Don’t be dense.
open borders + flood of tens of millions of genetically and culturally antagonistic illegals != legal immigration.
nice sidestep, though.
Never said I was for illegal immigration. You, however, have said you’re AGAINST legal immigration of unskilled workers. So it’s you who is sidestepping.
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Every white worker cant be at the head of his own (Mexican) “crew.”
For one thing,there is only so much work to go around,even at rock bottom remuneration.Also,if per impossibile it was that easy to acquire your very own “crew,”Mexicans would increase exponentially and we’d have quite a few problems as a result.For example,Mexos went for Obama last November.
Nice try.Workers are not “the few.”They are the many.In other words;”They’re too many (big?) to fail.”Freaks like you are “the few.”
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Default User
This is absolutely true. It’s not a subtle difference either. Ironically I think this effect is strongest in relative “good girls”.
In ages past everyone knew and acknowledged this. However, you have to recognize that American feminism was founded basically on women getting the vote, and getting the right to divorce in the case of their husband’s infidelity. American women in particular have been highly and often actually self destructively militant and narrowly closed minded about this for a century or more. Lots of good marriages have been wrecked by these attitudes of American women.
Further it’s semi enforced through female friends. Women cannot help spilling emotionally upsetting things, like their husbands suspected or proven or confessed infidelity to friends. Some at least of the friends will then tell her that she HAS to get a divorce to preserve any self respect. At the very least she will be told she has to put her husband through absolute contrition hell, with all kinds of compensatory things.
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Nice try.Workers are not “the few.”They are the many.In other words;”They’re too many (big?) to fail.”Freaks like you are “the few.”
Laborers make up 1.8% of the workforce. Maids, janitors, etc. make up another 1.6%.
If you’re going to be wrong, you don’t have to be rude as well.
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traitor:
It’s cute when you go into a rage like this.
it’s funny how those i shit on always revert to goo goo ga ga talk and claim to be enjoying the “cuteness” of my hellfire.
Like I said, I acknowledge the externalities and disagree about their cost.
if you can’t fathom the costs then you aren’t acknowledging the externalities.
Don’t be dense.
didn’t take long for me to drag you into the abyss.
Never said I was for illegal immigration.
do you or do you not support building an effective fence along the southern border and fining employers who hire illegals?
You, however, have said you’re AGAINST legal immigration of unskilled workers.
for now i’m against all immigration. the country needs a 20 year time out. barring that, i’m against immigration in massive numbers from stock that provides mostly unskilled illiterate peasantry of genetic and cultural background at odds with the founding stock of america. if we are to have a well regulated flow of immigration in the foreseeable future i would prefer it be from 1st world countries that share an affinity with the anglo saxon tradition and folkways.
unfortunately, that list of countries is growing smaller by the day thanks to no-nothing nimrod traitors like yourself.
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Seeking Alpha
Allowing and in fact encouraging the legal immigration in a choosy fashion of the best and the brightest from around the world, people with high skills and or real smarts is one thing — and indeed a very good thing.
Mass immigration of people we then feel we need to offer AFFIRMATIVE ACTION TO is obviously something else, and self evidently stupid, for anyone who is religiously committed to leftism masquerading as “liberalism”.
Oh and we should stop allowing liberal chain immigration for “family reunification” as well. No the brother and grandparents shouldn’t automatically get to come over too.
In the meantime no children or grandchildren etc. of immigrants of any nationality should ever get affirmative action (aka a “diversity” boost) — wouldn’t you agree SA?
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Obviously the above should be
for anyone who is NOT religiously committed to leftism masquerading as “liberalism”.
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Raceless libertarians are, much like the liberals they claim to oppose, simply crazy cultists.
And a suicide cult at that.
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Most of my friends and neighbors are working class.
My best friend’s dad is a contractor.
A contractor with his own company is working class, how cool is that!
A neighbor is a landscaper. Again, they have knowledge beyond just how to push a lawnmower. They’ve been able to expand their business
They OWN the landscaping business, and you have demoted them to ‘working class’. How cool is that!
Then why haven’t they? Because they really, really like me?
A.First, and foremost, given your wild claims of what constitutes ‘Working Class’ for you, I suspect you got your job SWPL straight-up. Who you know, not what you know. Which would easily and effortlessly explain your smugness. Wouldn’t it? A monkey won’t be ALLOWED to replace your special self.
B.Because attempting to lower everyone’s wages at once could cause problems. You do understand the idea of breaking a single stick at a time rather than the whole bundle?
Do you?
That’s why I helpfully nominated you as ‘next’.
C.Because ‘Open Borders’ Big Business DO like you, and your class. Lower-Upper Class, right? Given that you think a few million is ‘working class’ who knows how high you actually are. Don’t you support their every action? You scream constantly about how wonderful the ‘capitalists’ are. How can they NOT like you, Seeky? Why shouldn’t they attack people whose class doesn’t, as a whole, support their policies first? That seems to be the basically intelligent thing to do.
Are you claiming that they are stupid now? Cause that seems to be what you are claiming.
Of course it matters how much. If you are only slightly better than Y, then you should be paid slightly more. If you are much better, you’ll be paid much more. If an illiterate immigrant offered to design circuits for Intel for $2/hour, would they hire them? Of course not.
I’m at least twice as good as the average H1-B. That means my wages must drop by 1/3 to ‘compete’.
Maybe the answer is, like the UAW autoworkers or the i-bank paper pusher idiots, you were simply over paid. You got a good deal for awhile, and you were lucky for it, but you were lured into complacency. You convinced yourself that you were OWED that salary.
I already said I was an engineer.
Notice, everyone, how he tries to frame things as me being ‘unworthy’, ‘lazy’, ‘lucky’…. when all that I am is paid more than a Third Worlder. He also tries to build envy. Women are good at envy. I’m lucky. I’m the no-good neighbor who bought his wife a bigger car because I’m a lucky UAW worker. Doesn’t she want to pull me down?
We could almost forget in his little tirade that I already said I’m a college-educated. And in MY college, Rolla, only 1/2 of those that start graduate. What was your flunk-out rate, boy? I mean that Seeky. Tell me what percentages simply failed in your college, BOY.
Seeking Alpha, the ONLY reason my wages are going down is because H1-B’s and other Third Worlder’s are being imported in massive quantities.
Ok, Seeky, here is the money question, were all the construction workers, miners, and engineers that built this country from zero ‘lucky’ to receive wages above that of Third-World?
Was my father ‘lucky’? My maternal grandfather? Were they all ‘lucky’, each and everyone? Cause they were paid more than they would be paid today.
So, were they lucky?
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if you can’t fathom the costs then you aren’t acknowledging the externalities.
Potential costs. Higher crime. Lower wages for some. Strain on welfare state.
Potential benefit. Lower prices for some. Increased consumption of goods and services. Better demographics.
Neither of us knows which outweighs which. Both sides have ‘statistics’ to back up their case. Now can you please stop repeating over and over that we don’t ‘get’ externalities. Clearly we do.
do you or do you not support building an effective fence along the southern border and fining employers who hire illegals?
If it’s combined with unrestricted legal immigration (barring strict national security, criminal, health checks), then yes, I do. I don’t believe in ‘open borders’.
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In the meantime no children or grandchildren etc. of immigrants of any nationality should ever get affirmative action (aka a “diversity” boost) — wouldn’t you agree SA?
I would agree. I hate affirmative action.
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My apologies,Alpha seeker.No hard feelings I hope.
Laborers are a sub-set of “workers.”Workers,of a variety of sorts,make up the vast bulk of any populace.My statement still stands.Minus the insult.
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Comment_Whatever
These long rants are just masturbation for your self-pity. You don’t want a discussion (which is how this started), you want to lecture. Go ahead.
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All quotes above were from Seeking Alpha.
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My apologies,Alpha seeker.No hard feelings I hope.
Laborers are a sub-set of “workers.”Workers,of a variety of sorts,make up the vast bulk of any populace.My statement still stands.Minus the insult.
No problem. It’s contagious around here, and I’m as guilty as any. Roissy is absolutely right… hate feels good. It’s a guilty pleasure to indulge. But we’ve done that on immigration so many times before, what’s the point?
I would, however, like to respond to your very valid point with a counter point. I don’t think I have the magic answer and it’s important to realistically weigh the costs and benefits of such a big issue, rather than just go on and on that your opponents are blind idiots, that there are no benefits and that there are huge costs.
My point was that very few people are harmed by the lower wages. 3.4% of the workforce according to my estimate. You are right that more than 3.4% are working class, but for a working class person in a different industry, the lower prices help, not hurt.
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Ovid said:
Nice try.Workers are not “the few.”They are the many.In other words;”They’re too many (big?) to fail.”Freaks like you are “the few.”
Seeking Alpha said:
Laborers make up 1.8% of the workforce. Maids, janitors, etc. make up another 1.6%.
If you’re going to be wrong, you don’t have to be rude as well.
Ovid said:
My apologies,Alpha seeker.No hard feelings I hope.
Laborers are a sub-set of “workers.”Workers,of a variety of sorts,make up the vast bulk of any populace.My statement still stands.Minus the insult.
So he re-defined your words into what he wanted them to be and then called you wrong on his new definition.
And you agreed with his sophist stunt. Why?
Really, it’s just pure sophistry. ‘Worker’ clearly isn’t just laborers and maids and janitors. Everyone knows that.
Really, I laughed at him when he called business owners ‘working class’ and you should to.
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Really, it’s just pure sophistry. ‘Worker’ clearly isn’t just laborers and maids and janitors. Everyone knows that.
Yes, but OTHER working class and middle class people (waiters and waitresses, retail sales people, nurses, secretaries, etc.) aren’t competing with these illegal immigrants. Only laborers and maid and janitors are. You’re an engineer… you’re supposed to be logical.
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Seeking Alpha quits the field in cowardice.
Comment_Whatever
These long rants are just masturbation for your self-pity. You don’t want a discussion (which is how this started), you want to lecture. Go ahead.
Okay, Seeking Alpha, just expalin to me how this makes sense:
You said:
Most of my friends and neighbors are working class.
My best friend’s dad is a contractor.
A contractor with his own company is working class, how cool is that!
Really, how does what you said make any sense at all.
Just explain that single error.
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aren’t competing with these illegal immigrants.
Yes they are. For neighborhoods and schools.
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Okay, I have no idea what this means. Could somebody explain it to me?
Seeking Alpha said:
Yes, but OTHER working class and middle class people (waiters and waitresses, retail sales people, nurses, secretaries, etc.) aren’t competing with these illegal immigrants. Only laborers and maid and janitors are. You’re an engineer… you’re supposed to be logical.
Waiters and Waitresses aren’t competing with immigrants?
I’m missing something here. Cause I have no idea what he is saying.
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A contractor with his own company is working class, how cool is that!
Really, how does what you said make any sense at all.
A contractor with a crew of 2. Works every job himself alongside them. Along with his wife, who is an accountant, they are comfortably middle class. If he was the sole breadwinner, they’d be working class.
What kind of jobs do you define as working class?
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notfamous:
“I don’t fall for the “Nuke” style game; that completely repels me. I like the nice game you describe, when you joke with the girl about grooming her friend.”
Let’s put it to the test. Supply a phone number and try to resist the ensuing animated .gif images of balls.
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solid leftie dem base ensuring irrelevancy of opposition party for generations to come.
Oh yes, there will be an opposition party. Given present demographic trends and absent a dictatorship, the Democratic party will simply split into a populist-leftist Hugo Chavez faction and elitist “conservative” Barack Obama faction.
The former will demand a mass-socialization of all industries and forceful integration of everything and the latter “conservatives” will ineffectually meowl “not so fast” but go along with everything as long as they get consessions on the human-pet marriage issue.
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if 2 billion europeans, americans, brazilians and africans immigrated to japan under the rubric of unrestricted legal immigration, would that:
a. strengthen japan or
b. irrevocably turn japan into a country nothing like japan?
But that wouldn’t happen. After a certain point, wages would be depressed enough to make immigration not worth it.
That’s how a free market works – whether in something tangible like widgets or something intangible like labor.
Randboy, traitor, liberdroidiness… you sound exactly like these detestable liberals and SWPLs you claim to hate. You substitute snark for reason. You’re a coward. I’m guessing if you were even able to summon the balls to throw these around outside the comfort of cyberspace, a single smack is all it would take to have you backpedaling, trying to talk your way out of the situation.
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Hey Gang,
If you want to understand Seeky’s glee in flooding this country with low social capital illegal aliens, so he can privatize the profits and socialize the costs, look no farther than a previous thread where we discovered he’s a member of The Tribe. (And he argued in bad faith with lots of ad hominem). So it’s not really accurate to think that Seeky is a poor clueless libertarian with no notion of group ethnocentrism.
Of course as this country goes down the toilet, the elites, including most of the Tribe, plan to be living in gated communities at the top of the heap with hired proles to keep them safe. Or if it gets really bad, they’ll show their loyalty as Seeky told us above:
So Seeky LOVES a universal, proposition nation for America with TONS of 3rd World immigrants.
Hey Seeky, how about advocating the EXACT SAME POLICIES for Israel?
The US could even fly 300,000 Mexican and Central American illegals per year to Israel for free (one way tickets). Of course that would mean Israel would have to stop being a Jewish ethnostate that heavily discriminates against its non-Jewish citizens, all fully embedded in their legal code.
See: Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion
amazon.com
The full text is available here: radioislam.net
The late Israel Shahak was a Holocaust survivor and professor at Hebrew University in Jerusalem.
Of course, if he were serious about a proposition, universal nation for Israel, he would declare his support for the One State solution so that all the Palestinians and Jews could live together with the exact same legal rights. And any of the Palestinian diaspora that wanted to live there would be allowed to return, kind of like Israel currently lets ANY Jew from anywhere in the world come to Israel with subsidies and INSTANTLY get citizenship.
That only seems fair since lots of Palestinians were kicked out of their homes in what is now Israel during the formation of Israel.
Some other interesting Jewish dissidents:
See: Phillip Weiss Mondoweiss
See: a funny cartoonist, Eli Valley evcomics.com
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ScotchFiend – ‘Seeky’ ? What kind of man uses diminutive pet names? Like some taunting, snarky liberal. I think you need to go watch some old movies and take notes.
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After a certain point, wages would be depressed enough to make immigration not worth it.
There would still be plenty of countries where the wages are even lower.
That’s how a free market works
The free market also favors crackcocaine, chlid pr0n, protection rackets, and and insider trading. But for some reason civilized societies override the free market’s prerogatives in these cases.
The free market is a means toward a livable and sustainable society, it is not an end in itself.
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Seeking Alpha–
Even though you agree on ending affirmative action, it’s still idiocy to allow in mass numbers of people what most or many of our elites feel should receive it, due to their relative under performance in schools and in high income jobs.
It obviously lowers the IQ and average level of true educational attainment of the population to let such people in, in large numbers.
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After a certain point, wages would be depressed enough to make immigration not worth it.
To get the full impact of that comment: it’s OK to reduce Japan to stone-age levels, at least until its quality of life reaches Bangladeshi levels.
With that comment alone Seeking Alpha destroyed the case for open-borders libertarianism.
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There would still be plenty of countries where the wages are even lower.
But costs are also lower. Especially in Japan where there is only so much land. If subsistence housing+food was X yen/hour in wage, you wouldn’t have someone uprooting their entire life and moving across the world for half that amount.
If you look at slums in Indian, maybe a lot of those workers can only earn $1/day, but with that dollar they can also afford food and shelter (however meager).
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Well Seeky, I was just following the example of Anonymous and Comment_Whatever above as anybody who searches the thread will discover.
But true to form you don’t bother answering any substantive point I make, you just use rhetorical devices.
I really don’t care what you have to say because you are a dishonest person who argues in bad faith. I just want to let other people know that and give them the ability to discover that by reviewing the record.
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@PA – Do you agree that America is richer than it’s ever been? If you respond with the standard liberal talking point that, well the rich are richer, but the poor have been left behind, who is this faceless poor? Who has been hurt so badly by immigration?
Is there a group of people who have been marginalized? Where are they?
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But true to form you don’t bother answering any substantive point I make, you just use rhetorical devices.
I’m not trying to use ‘rhetorical devices’ with you. I think you’re contemptible. I’m not trying to ‘win’ by convincing you. You’re old. Your mind is set. You have no interest in alternative points of view. You’re just a joke. These aren’t ad hominem attacks, because I’m not using them to try and ‘win’ our little argument. I’m trying to explain why I don’t care about your points, you little boy.
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I sadly most agree with PA. Everything else is interesting, but this is Seeking Alpha’s position.
Seeking Alpha accidentally said the truth:
After a certain point, wages would be depressed enough to make immigration not worth it.
PA said:
To get the full impact of that comment: it’s OK to reduce Japan to stone-age levels, at least until its quality of life reaches Bangladeshi levels.
So yes, the end goal is all wages dropped to Third World levels.
And that is the only thing worth talking about. Do we want all workers, the good, the bad, the stupid, the brilliant, each and every single one dropped down to Third World levels.
Seeking Alpha also said his solution to this problem once it effects him:
Fortunately capital is mobile. I’ll happily follow my company to Mayfair, Sydney, or wherever else it goes.
At which point Seeky pulls a runner.
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Why is it all about money with you?
And even arguing on your terms, America is becoming poorer by the day.
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I sadly most agree with PA
Aw, come on Comment_. I unloaded on you a few weeks ago because you were being abusive in the course of a relatively trivial argument. Bygones, aaight?
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America is heading for a civil war of the productive against the unproductive. I posted that America may become Brazil north, but you aren’t miscigenated enough to do it.
so there will be war. In one side we have the southern rednecks. In the other we have :
– blacks, who never had an organized army in history. And when were incorporated in non black armies usually f***** up everything
– hispanics, the descendants of the people who lost an empire to 300 drunk spaniards
– herbs
the moment evangelicals in the US stop believing in the rapture, the golden age of jewry in North America will end.
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PA:
Why is it all about money with you?
And even arguing on your terms, America is becoming poorer by the day.
It’s not all about money, it’s just that I think it’s the more easily discussable topic. Culture is amorphous, with few statistics. It’s more prone to emotional debate. It’s certainly important, but the odds of a reasonable debate about it are 0 – as opposed to the economics where the odds of a reasonable are, while still low, are at least possible.
As for your second point, it’s broad, ambiguous statements like that which I was asking you to avoid. Immigration has been loose for decades. During that long time period (not just during the current recession) where are the large groups of marginalized people hurt by immigration?
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During that long time period (not just during the current recession) where are the large groups of marginalized people hurt by immigration?
Every American who senses that his father lived in a more free, more prosperopus, more peaceful, more attractive, more full of opportunity nation than his son will.
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@PA – Okay, nevermind. There were a couple people, Ovid and Questioner for instance, who actually wanted to do a give-and-take reasonable person discussion. Now they’ve left and we’ve got, at best, people talking in broad, unprovable platitudes, or at worst, believers in world conspiracies. I give up. And with another 5 hours left at work too. I was hoping I could stretch this out further.
I will say though, to those believing in ‘jewry’, that if it’s true, I feel gipped. I never got anything from the tribe. Maybe they don’t let you join the conspiracy until 30.
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traitor:
But that wouldn’t happen. After a certain point, wages would be depressed enough to make immigration not worth it.
“my fellow americans… to build this country up we need to first bring her to her knees!”
sounds like a winning plan.
That’s how a free market works – whether in something tangible like widgets or something intangible like labor.
another liberdroid/anti-goy MOT blindspot: lag time.
before the country ever reached the point of rock bottom wages and any supposed tightened immigration controls as a consequence, the damage from the new colonizers would have been wrought.
i mean, really. do you think after wages have been depressed the 3rd generation peasant conquistadors will just up and exit en masse, stage right?
and it’s a leap of faith to think free market principles will rule the day when the meximasses vote 2 to 1 consistently for lefto socialist ethno-aggrandizers in perpetuity.
just ask john mccain. i laughed at his blowup yesterday when the hispanics he pandered to didn’t vote the way he expected.
ha haaaw!
score another one for human nature.
Randboy, traitor, liberdroidiness… you sound exactly like these detestable liberals and SWPLs you claim to hate.
you must have me mistaken for the SWPL of your lurid fantasies. although i live the SWPL lifestyle, my views are anathema to them.
You substitute snark for reason.
it seems to have gotten your attention.
You’re a coward.
traitor say what?
I’m guessing if you were even able to summon the balls to throw these around outside the comfort of cyberspace, a single smack is all it would take to have you backpedaling, trying to talk your way out of the situation.
yes, son. feel your hate grow. let it flow through you. your journey is almost complete.
did you think it would be long before i caused you to betray your measured stoicism and appeals to reason?
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Seeking Alpha
Immigration is not something that just happens. It is a government program. The government sets the rules. It is not the free-market at work.
Because it is a government program it suffers from all the rent seeking that other government programs suffer. Flows of immigrants are not solely bound by free market concerns. They are set by immigration (government) policies. Those policies are set by the usual logrolling, pandering, and general malfeasance that infect every other part of government.
Current policies are biased against White Europeans. Only about 13 percent of legal immigration comes from all of Europe. That is the same share that one single country receives. That country is Mexico.
The world population is about six billion. If we were to have unrestricted legal immigration, how many would come? What size population would leave America a livable country?
All the talk of workers adapting and learning news skills forgets one thing. Half the population is below average in intelligence. Half the population will, to some degree, have difficulty adapting. Large-scale unskilled immigration punishes these people for their position on the bell curve. The cognitive, transnational types that love to argue over abstractions of immigration have no idea of the actual impacts on real-world people.
We do not live by economics alone, more important for human happiness is finding a place in society. Socialism and many welfare programs are not bad because they are inefficient. They are bad because the deny individuals a meaningful existence (mere survival does not provide that). Those men and women whose wages are cut as a result of immigration are not abstractions. They are not just “workers,” they are people.
America is not a proposition-nation but it is a nation. A nation is a collection of people with a shared culture and history (and perhaps genetics too). It is nationhood and not the state that builds a strong society. As you remove shared history, traditions, and mores you need more and more state power to preserve order.
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SA: a reaonable discussion is not possible if first principles aren’t shared. It’s like a poor Irishman arguing with an Englishman about the cost-benefits analysis of eating Irish children for dinner.
The Englishman will insist that there are economic benefits and the Irishman is replying in “broad platitudes” that No, he doesn’t want any of his kids slaughtered and cooked.
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Roissy
yes, son. feel your hate grow. let it flow through you. your journey is almost complete.
did you think it would be long before i caused you to betray your measured stoicism and appeals to reason?
And this is why it’s so much fun to stay here. Nice conclusion.
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America is not a proposition-nation but it is a nation.
So long as America remains (was?) a nation, its flag is something that gives me chills of awe and its national anthem brings a single manly tear to my eye.
But once it becomes an empire of for and by its elites and selling everything else out to foreigners, the flag becomes a corporate logo and the anthem a commercial jingle.
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Default User said:
All the talk of workers adapting and learning news skills forgets one thing. Half the population is below average in intelligence. Half the population will, to some degree, have difficulty adapting. Large-scale unskilled immigration punishes these people for their position on the bell curve. The cognitive, transnational types that love to argue over abstractions of immigration have no idea of the actual impacts on real-world people.
Wages for doctors in England have been destroyed by the EXTREMELY aggressive import of foreign doctors.
Are doctors ‘the lower half’?
H1-B’s are attacking engineering wages in America, England, oh, and Germany too, I heard that directly from a German engineer I talked to. Are engineers ‘the lower half’ of the population?
With all due respect, stop repeating the talking points of the Open Borders crowd of how the people hurt are ‘loser’ beta males. It is worse than useless.
Really, knock it off. The smarter ones, like Tood, will shut their mouths once they realize that you aren’t going to let them win from go by claiming their actions only hurt ‘losers’.
Since this is completely untrue, why don’t you stop helping them? Hmmmm?
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Comment_Enough_Already
I agree. I was trying to keep my comment short(er). At some point a comment becomes too long to read. I was trying to avoid that.
I was also trying to point out that those affected are not just numbers. These debates can become abstract and meaningless if we forget that real live people are involved.
The effect on engineers, physicians, etc. is even worse because it discourages students from taking up those careers in the first place. Why do all that hard work and suffer those heavy loans when there is no guarantee of a decent career.
Academia loves immigrants too. They prefer foreign PhDs to native ones. The link below is about a PhD whose work was the basis for Nobel prize winning research. He now drives a van for a living (the kind of work we are told Americans will not do).
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081011/NEWS/810110328
So you are correct everyone suffers.
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whiskey
Both men and women seek to rig the system for outcomes that benefit them.
Please forgive the vernacular, but some of us don’t give a flying fuck about “the system” and especially the so-called health care system. The only government systems I really care about are those that keep the infrastructure from falling apart, such as maintaining roads, bridges, and traffic lights.
I’ll get bashed for this, but truthfully I care more about what I’m having for breakfast. If people think they can “work the system” to gain an advantage; great, but I think “the system” is given more weight than it really has as far as determining someone’s true quality of life. If I have to rely on a government system for my health, happiness, and prosperity, I’m in deep shit.
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Seeking Alpha,
A country is its people and all the things that make up that people, nothing more and nothing less. It would be easier for everyone if you just acknowledged that your loyalty is not to the United States but to your Randian ideology. You’re not being truthful about where you’re coming from.
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Chic,
Well, my dear, the “health” care system is a huge factor in the deterioration of people’s health. A HUGE factor. Case in point; my own father is now in a nursing home because he was going to the best kidney specialists available and is now on kidney dialysis. A true kidney specialist would have fixed his fucking kidneys. (Sorry, I enjoy cursing.. :)) People keep going to doctor’s expecting them to cure their disease and these same doctor’s can’t pinpoint the cause of the disease, nor remove it of course. They themselves have a life span of about 55 I think! Idiots! It’s too bad that alternative medicine IS the alternative.
The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians pertaining to the ethical practice of medicine. It is widely believed that the oath was written by Hippocrates, the father of western medicine, in the 4th century BC, or by one of his students.
The phrase “ABOVE ALL, DO NO HARM” is usually attributed to the oath. Although mostly of historical and traditional value, the oath is considered a rite of passage for practitioners of medicine, although it IS NOT OBLIGATORY AND IS NO LONGER TAKEN BY PHYSICIANS.
I’ll probably get bashed for this!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo's_Oil
Personally, my health is stellar compared to 90% of the people I know. This could have happened only AFTER exiting the “health” care system, otherwise I would surely be dead or wishing for it given my previous state of health.
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PA,
I wanted to pick your brain a bit about some comments you made in reply to Questioner back up the road apiece:
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but you basically said that you felt the best way for politics to work was in those polities where there was a kind of ethnic/cultural homogeniety-which I took to mean, a dominant racial/ethnic group.
Now, if I understand your comments correctly, my question to yo would have to be this:
Given that African Americans makeup roughly 13% of the national population at present, how does this factor into your statements? Are there inherent differences between them and the White majority that has some kind of political implications, and if so, what, and how?
Also, I’m finding the sidebar discussion on whether we should “socialize” or not “socialize” to be very interesting indeed. I have seen the Frontline special on the state of American healthcare and *it* made me sick. Moreover, I have seen, firsthand, what the “great” American healthcare system can do for you, both in my own life and in that of loved ones and friends. No dis to my man R, but its real easy to talk a mean game in the abstract, tougher to tow the line when your on the people you give a damn about’s butt is on the (hopefully not flat) line.
Now, I’m as free market as they come-no disrespect to anyone else here, but I know firsthan what it’s like to live by the motto, you don’t work you don’t eat. I don’t have a very high opinion of Michael Moore, but one thing is pretty certain to me, what we got healthwise aint workin’ man. Can it get worse, hell yea. Am I saying universal healthcare is the end all be all answer, hell naw.
All I’m saying is what we got ain’t working.
Something’s gotta give.
Holla back
O
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K-12 needs to be kept on a local level to reflect the values and needs of the community.
Judging from the anecdotal stories of New Yorkers who move to Florida and discover that our 9th grade math curriculum is their 12th grade curriculum, I’d argue for some degree national standards.
Plus, how local is local? Are we talking about school districts by neighbourhood or by county?
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PA to SA:
Why is it all about money with you?
lol
“jewey jewey jew-boy” 😛
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Seeking Alpha,
A country is its people and all the things that make up that people, nothing more and nothing less. It would be easier for everyone if you just acknowledged that your loyalty is not to the United States but to your Randian ideology. You’re not being truthful about where you’re coming from.
Which people is that? How many waves of immigration do we go back? Are only British immigrants American? British Scottish and Irish? Germans and Italians?
Okay, those were all Western Europeans (although Europeans themselves don’t consider themselves ‘all Western European). What about Slavs? That’s a different race entirely? Should we kick out Slavic Roissy?
My loyalty is to the United States. I want to see her be as strong and rich as possible. Not just for the elites but for the workers and the middle class too. I just happen to believe that a free market with few regulations is the best way to do that.
So unless your forefathers came over on the Mayflower, you can shove your false-patriotism up your ass.
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Why do all that hard work and suffer those heavy loans when there is no guarantee of a decent career.
An interesting option is to solve the heavy loans portion of that phrase…
Why is it all about money with you?
PA, it’s always about money. Money determines your buying power and the respect that your receive from others.
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Given that African Americans makeup roughly 13% of the national population at present, how does this factor into your statements?
Obsidian, not sure if you recall, but about four months ago I posted a thought-out comment that explained my view on this subject. This is more off-the-cuff:
Basically, I wrote that black folks are, as Pat Buchanan said, as American as apple pie. You’ve been here since Jamestown.
And so the way to make this by-necessity duo-racial society work is to agree that white protestant anglo-saxons remain a core majority population in this country, to whose cultural norms everyone else conforms.
Those norms include monogamous-marriage, Christianity, work ethic, law-abdingness, self reliance, etc. But again, it’s critical that this core WASP population (among whom, as a Slavic Catholic I do not count myself) maintains an undisputed cultural and numerical superiority.
And we had that until the 1950s, until two things went very wrong: (1) a political/industrial/intellectual elite began subverting the American way of life and became our outright enemy, and (2) mass immigration has upset our ethnic balance.
Also – specific to your interests: there were things in the South that needed to be remedied, but as a non-historian, I wonder (a) were things really that bad — reading Zora Neale Hurston, I saw a world in which black folk were doing all right for themselves, on their own terms, and (b) was it necessary to replace separate water fountains with today’s levels of violent black-on-white crime, black arrogance and hostility (not from all but from many) and many of the “civil rights” regulations that have been ruled and legislated since the 1960s.
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Gig,
Just saw your comments.
Not to confuse you with the facts but…
Please check the history. Several of recorded history’s greatest military strategists were Black/African: Shaka Zulu, Hannibal, Mansa Musa, etc. And then there were the Moors who conquered Spain and held it for the better part of a thousand years, etc.
In the USA, there were the Buffalo Soldiers during the Civil War, and of course, the famed Tuskeegee Airmen of WW2. NEVER lost a plane.
Now, as to your notions of there being a “civil war” you might be right, but I think you got the potential combantants wrong: it won’t be between Black and White, but rather, White and White(r). Of course, that means that guys like you actually have to get a pair and confront the White(r) guys who actually pull the strings and make things happen in this country, and have for at least a generation.
Lock and load, eh Gig?
O
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it’s always about money. Money determines your buying power and the respect that your receive from others
Is it always? Would you sell your niece if the price was right? Would you sleep with a girl with A-cups?
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Tupac: SA argues immigration exclusively from the economics angle.
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Gunslinger
What the hell is next. Sara turns out to be 60
Not happening, sugar baby.
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Seeking Alpha,
If your loyalty were to the United States, you would not be indifferent to the displacement of her founding stocks if that’s what the free-market signaled.
All immigration prior to the 1965 Immigration Act never altered America’s essential identity as a white, Anglo/European Christian nation.
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Follow up to the above….I’m aware that my definition of loyalty places a healthy majority of Americans in the disloyal camp. Such are the times we live in.
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ae
America isn’t Christian, it’s protestant. Our founders were Anglo Saxon Protestants. If you think Irish is as good as English or Catholic is as good as Protestant… that’s not how they felt back then.
My point was that attitudes change. And again, what about the Slavs?
PA
Only here. The cultural aspect is certainly important. I just agree a lot more with everyone else. But I don’t think Hispanics are intrinsically incapable of assimilating… I just think the SWPL, multicultural liberal beast keeps them from it.
I don’t support bilingual anything in government. All government forms, websites, etc. should be English only.
I don’t support ESL classes in our schools. If an immigrant wants to go to school to learn English, that’s fine, but he does it on his own dime, not mine.
I don’t support crime. I think a tougher police force and less gun control are good things. There’d be a lot less Hispanic crime if we were all armed and trained.
I don’t support affirmative action, welfare, social services, or any other government support for immigrants.
I only bring up the economics because it’s where we disagree. We agree that cultural changes are bad, but we just disagree on the source. A lot of people here think that immigration per se causes cultural decay. I think the problem lies in the multicultural PC BS of our government and that if we got rid of that (along with the economic safety net), it’d be much better.
Is that fair, or am i just going to get flamed again?
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Is it always? Would you sell your niece if the price was right? Would you sleep with a girl with A-cups?
I would not sell my niece for money. I would sleep with a girl with A-cups for a minimum of $100 if she was good looking with nails, $250 otherwise.
Otherwise, money can buy some degree of happiness, and high income with wealth can buy respect.
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ae
One other thing. The founding class of our country are the elites. The displaced and the poor – the ones who face competition from unskilled immigrants – are the Scottish, Irish, German, mostly Catholic immigrants.
By your definition, if Mexican immigrants hurt the Scots, Irish and German Catholics, but help the Anglo-Saxon Protestants, then opponents of immigration are disloyal.
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high income with wealth can buy respect.
Wealth in excess of evident personal qualities (charisma, character, intelligence) actually generates contempt.
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I would sleep with a girl with A-cups for a minimum of $100 if she was good looking with nails, $250 otherwise.
You, sir, are a manwhore and a gigolo. For shame.
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But again, it’s critical that this core WASP population (among whom, as a Slavic Catholic I do not count myself) maintains an undisputed cultural and numerical superiority.
So in other words, it’s okay if you get to immigrate, but not me? Your presence disrupts the core WASP population as does mine.
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Your presence disrupts the core WASP population as does mine.
That’s correct. On the other hand, if I were to immigrate to Korea, my presence would disrupt their core Han population more so than 100 Chinese immigrants would, even if they were low IQ criminals.
Anyway, you’re here and you are an interesting guy, and I like the David Alexander character, so no one is kicking you out.
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PA,
Thanks for taking the time out to answer my question. I’m sorry I missed your earlier remarks but am glad you reiterated briefly your position.
Glad also that you mentioned Buchanan, as I’ve read and enjoyed his comments for many years, and feels he makes so good points and here I agree with his assessment-African Americans, arguably thee farthest from the “norm” in terms of appearance (and many did and still do argue, ability, skills, temperment, etc.) from WASP founding fathers, proved that they too could make the American Enterprise work for them, once the legal, social & economic boot was taken off their neck. So, this suggests to me, that it is more about ideas, than blood, that makes an American, an American.
Having said that, I agree, those ideals created and enshrined in our documents by WASP, White & Male hands is something I don’t think could have happened otherwise. Theirs is a truly unique creation on the world stage, and we’re all the better for it. What my people have done, is made the Promise, real.
I know there is a great concern on the part of many in the White Male community on the Black on White crime rate-and I don’t wish to shirk it. But I think, if one standsback and considers the overall crime rates, Blacks invariably kill, rape & terrorize other Blacks by a huge margin. In other words PA, I have a much higher chance of being gunned down today or tomorrow, by a Man looking like me, than you do by a Man looking like me. It then makes me think that there is something else afoot here-why such huge concern?
I think the answer, at least in part, lies in your comments above-because those who you and others refer to as “elites”-or the SWPL crowd-are the ones who apparently control and drive and set the national agenda/debates in this country. That’s a legit concern, but your targets are wrong. I fail to see why its so very hard to address the targets of your ire (I mean in the general sense, not necessarily you personally). It almost seems as if the Men who think as you are truly impotent to address America’s Whiter People. If that is indeed the case, no wonder there are seemingly so many Angry White Men running around.
Finally, yes, there are Black folks out there, mainly Males, who have huge chips on their shoulder, and looking for any target to unload it on. Absolutely. Is it right, no. Is it productive, not necessarily. Will it solve their problems, I’d say not in the longrun.
But again, this seems like a red herring to me, PA-the reality is, that you and especially most White guys here will have at best, limited realtime facetime with Black guys, so why do you care so much? What’s that all about?
Please explain?
Thanks.
O
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Seeking Alpha,
When I say that America’s essential identity is white Anglo/European Christian, I’m aware that I’m leaving out nuances and slight modifications necessary to arrive at a more complete picture of American identity. Nothwithstanding, America has always been Western.
But all this is pointless to you anyway. To you, the correct ethnic/racial/religious composition of the nation is whatever the free market decides. That’s what I mean when I say you’re not loyal to the country but to an ideology.
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Wealth in excess of evident personal qualities (charisma, character, intelligence) actually generates contempt.
It may create contempt, but when you’re wealthy, people will kiss your ass in public, especially if their employment is on the line, and that’s important.
You, sir, are a manwhore and a gigolo. For shame.
Camera equipment is not cheap. Airfare is not cheap. Railfanning is not cheap. Roadgeeking is not trip. I only make $12/hr, so sex for money isn’t that bad.
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When I say that America’s essential identity is white Anglo/European Christian, I’m aware that I’m leaving out nuances and slight modifications necessary to arrive at a more complete picture of American identity. Nothwithstanding, America has always been Western.
But all this is pointless to you anyway. To you, the correct ethnic/racial/religious composition of the nation is whatever the free market decides. That’s what I mean when I say you’re not loyal to the country but to an ideology.
Again, you might call it ‘nuances and slight modifications’. WASPs look down on the Irish/Scotch/German catholics just as much as you look down on more recent immigrants.
You don’t get to fit into the WASP category, so you want to broaden it to include you. Well I call BS. Either you’re for the true elites of this country (WASPs) or you’re for the country as a whole.
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PA – Would you mind responding to the cultural bit I wrote. Given how much abuse you drop on me for my economic views, it would be nice to get a little credit if we do in fact feel the same way.
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If she likes communism so much, ask her why she is not in Cuba or No. Korea? Hypocrite.
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SA, Obs – I don’t have time to write at this point – I hope to get bnack to you guys later but feel free to bring up your questions ove rthe weekeknd if I dopn’t get beck to you by then.
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Notice that Seeky is outraged that anyone could question his patriotism:
But he must think we forgot how much loyalty he showed earlier in this thread when he said:
Notice that Seeky was too busy creating straw man arguments and insulting me to bother answering any point I made earlier, like does he believes Israel should follow the EXACT SAME nation destroying policies he proposes for the US.
The overwhelming majority of American Jewry, from the Neocon “right” to the left STILL support flooding our country with 3rd World immigrants (to make money, for social justice, etc), while almost all of them want to keep Israel as a Jewish ethnostate.
Of course Seeky is only interested in seeing the US “as strong and rich as possible” as it can be so we can fight Israel’s wars for her and enrich his tribe at the expense of the average people in this country.
Not everybody can lead a crew of illegal aliens and make lots of money by shoving the massive societal costs like education, health care, crime, and more, on to society at large while pocketing some crappy little profits. We have many low ability people here whose livelyhood is destroyed by not being able to compete with Mexicans who sacrifice by living seven in a two person apartment.
He doesn’t seem to get that many of us care more about the PEOPLE of this country and don’t want it transformed into some power hungry empire that lords over other countries and becomes an alien land to our people and culture run by a hostile elite (too late).
BTW, you think I’m contemptible? Believe me, it’s mutual.
Why don’t you just move to Israel and stop wrecking this country.
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On the other hand, if I were to immigrate to Korea, my presence would disrupt their core Han population more so than 100 Chinese immigrants would, even if they were low IQ criminals.
On the flip side, is my cousin’s decision to move to Australia with her white husband and mixed-race children disruptive to Australia? Would the decision of my aunt to move to Canada be disruptive as well? Is it disruptive for African immigrants to move to their former colonial powers disruptive as well even if the former colonial power still maintains overseas departments with mostly non-white populations?
By default, America has been a multicultural society from it’s founding, but is this multiculturalism limited to only white people?
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Seeking Alpha,
Not true regarding my background. But none of this changes the fact that you use the free-market (ideology) to know what the correct ethnic/racial/religious composition of the country should be.
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roissy: you must have me mistaken for the SWPL of your lurid fantasies. although i live the SWPL lifestyle, my views are anathema to them.
Have you ever considered that you might just in fact be a typical SWPL? It is not at all rare to into people who publically swear by SWPL codes and privately disagree with much or most or all of it. There should be a SWPL entry for secretly disagreeing on SWPL talking points.
Me, I think my SWPL score is 1 or 2. There’s also pretty much no difference between my public opinion and my private opinion.
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Scotchy – I could care less about Israel’s policies. I’m not Israeli, I’m American. Scotchy, don’t be a victim. If you don’t like the Jews, FiendyBoy, don’t whine about it, just start going after us. Don’t be afraid WhiningFiend. If people really agree with you, you’ll get away with it Scotchy.
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Dave Alex’s comments raise an interesting question: *can* money and all that obstensibly comes with it-status, power, prestige-be a kind of all-access pass to respect, acclaim, deference?
I’d have to say to some degree, yes. However, what PA says cannot be discounted s quickly either-there is nothing more disconcerting, than the Man who has Everything, and at the same time, has Nothing-no morals, no loyalty, no manners, etc.
So, I would have to agree, being rich *alone* isn’t enough, although it certainly can be a factor towards living a better life.
The question for me becomes-given that, his views in the “Women” area aside, most people actually like Dave Alex or at the least don’t find him problematic, is why would he embrace such a view-be rich but not necessarily good?
?
O
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1. I think the mass-illegal-mexican immigration thing is overblown as a problem. We’ve had moments in our history when masses of “unassimilating” unwashed criminals came here and kept in their own communities, and then assimilated just fine. The Chinese and Irish immediately come to mind; modern Mexican immigration doesn’t hold a candle to the magnitude of Irish immigration in the 1840s alone.
What is more, New England saw a mass dump of French Canadians over the years up and down VT, NH, MA, and RI. RI used to have the 2nd-biggest Mardi Gras after New Orleans. They never left back over the border and assimilated quite nicely. So the idea that these Mexicans will not assimilate and will only send money back home given time is belied.
The real problem there, with illegals, is the blue collar job loss as companies hire illegal workers to do jobs at 1/2 the normal pay. We simply cannot allow Americans to sacrifice jobs for illegals, no matter how faultless we find the illegals drive to work. The current US/American border situation is intolerable to American financial security long term; we simply cannot have no jobs available for American manual labor and expect survival.
I agree that borders need to be closed and controlled to prevent a whole lot of Americans illegally forced out of work. But I also believe those illegals not guilty of crimes should be jailed a short period and then granted amnesty.
2. If you really want to scare a SWPLer, tell them (as a conservative/libertarian/right winger/capitalist) that America is dead and you don’t support it.
The look of fear in their eyes is palpable. SWPLers, for all their talk, know they contribute nothing to the culture, and merely live off the backs of others. They know, furthermore, that it is law-and-order conservative types who fight in wars and serve in the police, since SWPLers are too cowardly and America-hating to do that. They also know that its the right-wingers who work manual labor jobs (the few that are left) that give us some kind of domestic product.
For all their America-hating rhetoric, they need America-lovers to sacrifice for them to exist; the stand on the shoulders of giants. Without you, the whole system collapses. No army, no police, no materials produced. What do we have left? Indie Rock bands, Academia, PR companies, community organizaers, and Hollwood. Oh, and the damned lawyers. 😉
Worthless crap.
They get very scared when they realize the crap they’ve wrought with Nobama, Kennedy, Biden the Liar, Baby Killer Pelosi, etc. Because the reverse was definitely not true; without left wingers, American society would still go on, economically and socially.
I’m only half-jokingly considering immigrating once I can financially find a way.
The problem is, most nations on earth fall into two categories: dying SWPL Europe, or crazed backwater. Trying to find a nation with social values and laws and yet also has an adequate justice system that protects individual rights is difficult. The balance may have only existed in the pre-WW2 America, and nowhere ever again.
But one thing’s for sure: the idea of my leaving (as a right wing/libertarian type) scares a hell of lot more of them than their empty threats of leaving did to me during the last 8 years.
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Not true regarding my background. But none of this changes the fact that you use the free-market (ideology) to know what the correct ethnic/racial/religious composition of the country should be.
That’s because I don’t think there is an ideal ethnic/racial/religious composition. I think that a lazy WASP is worse than a hard working Asian. I think that a stupid Scot is worse than a smart Slav. I think that an honest Hindu is better than a dishonest Jew. I think that what makes this country isn’t the ethnicity of the people, but their character.
If a man has a strong Protestant work ethic, he’s alright by me.
I think people obsessed with ethnicity instead of character are people of poor character.
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On a side note, it is very true that the biggest victims of illegal immigration are blacks. The majority of blacks work blue collar jobs, and are often the communities where illegal immigrants flock at first, due to cheap housing, etc.
In North Carolina, this is becoming a huge problem:
North Carolina is huge in the chicken industry. Major brands have farms there, as well as plucking/gutting stations (slaughterhouses, in the old parlance).
Used to be workers (mostly black( would be paid to “herd” chickens, meaning they waded into a flock and grabbed chickens by the handfull, broke the necks, and threw them into a truck. Then other black workers back at a factory would gut them for packaging.
Now illegals are getting paid 1/2 of that and stealing the jobs. For a state with a large black population, this is causing a lot of friction.
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Yet again Seeky doesn’t actually answer the question about Israel, but engages in a stream of insults.
Lame.
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OK then,why are white countries the only destination for all of these supposed non-white go-getters?If all of these immigrants are so smart and their countries are blessed with them, why do they wish to come here and mix with stupid lazy natives?
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ScotchyBoy – I did answer the question. You asked me how I feel about Israel. I answered I don’t care. Furthermore, I didn’t insult you. I suggested a course of action. Do something about your troubles. You can even come for me first, although with all the ‘Seeky’s getting thrown around, I’m guessing I’d also be the last.
If you want a real answer on Israel, it’s that they face a tough choice. Immigration would help them economically, but Arab immigration hurts them security wise. The solution would be to import lots of non-Arab foreigners… which is what they already did. Import lots of Russian Jews.
Any other questions Scotchy?
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“The solution would be to import lots of non-Arab foreigners which is what they already did. Import lots of Russian Jews”
What,no hard working,smart,honest,white gentiles in the world good enough for the Promised Land?
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Seeking Alpha,
Exactly right. Your ideological filter forces you to analyze everything at the individual level in complete disregard for the group dynamics. You’re not allowing reality as a whole to enter your thinking. The other commenters here have adequately covered what those group dynamics are.
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OK then,why are white countries the only destination for all of these supposed non-white go-getters?If all of these immigrants are so smart and their countries are blessed with them, why do they wish to come here and mix with stupid lazy natives?
That’s not what I said. I made up the ethnicities/religions randomly. My point holds for the opposite too. I prefer hard-working Scots to lazy Mexicans, etc. My point was that in judging an immigrant I care more about their intelligence and/or work ethic than their ethnicity.
I can answer your question though. The reason America is the destination for these immigrants is because only the most motivated Scots, Germans, British, Irish, etc. came over. All the lazy ones stayed in Europe.
In the non-white and in the white countries, there are a handful of smart, hard workers and a big majority of stupid lazy people. In America, we have more smart, hard-workers than anywhere else because all the smart hard-workers from the other countries came here.
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PA,
Sure, take your time, no need to rush. Also, I meant to say earlier, that you might want to lookup John Hope Franklin’s works, including his autobiography. It should answer my questions you have concerning the history of our country.
Franklin, btw, grew up not far from Tulsa OK, a thriving Black community that was the center of a horrific riot by jealous Whites in the early part of the 20th century, commonly known as the Black Wall Street incident. This too you can easily lookup online.
O
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ae
I’m guessing your point is that on average, some groups are smarter or more hard working than other groups, and so rather than allow anyone in, we should only allow the smartest or hardest-working groups in?
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” All the lazy ones stayed in Europe”
Europe is the most productive,most developed area per square kilometer on the planet.And with far less natural resources than most.Try again.
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PAThere would still be plenty of countries where the wages are even lower.
Seeking alphaBut costs are also lower. Especially in Japan where there is only so much land
Don’t forget that Japan has good high speed trains and many people still travel by bike. After your mortgage, for most people, their cars are their biggest expense. Also, single Jappanese women usually live with their parents until marriage. Actually in many parts of the word, single adults live with their parents until marriage. This is something many young Americans will have to do as our economy resets itself.
PA The free market also favors crackcocaine, chlid pr0n, protection rackets, and and insider trading. But for some reason civilized societies override the free market’s prerogatives in these cases.
The free market is a means toward a livable and sustainable society, it is not an end in itself.
Epic comment. I’ve argued this point a few times myself.
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Ovid
” All the lazy ones stayed in Europe”
Europe is the most productive,most developed area per square kilometer on the planet.And ,b>with far less natural resources than most.Try again.
You got that right and colonalism help them do it. De bears what
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Europe is the most productive,most developed area per square kilometer on the planet.And with far less natural resources than most.Try again
Productive != hard working. They have limits to how many hours you can work. Pretty lazy. And they collapsed from in control of the world to a slow-growth, weak-military region in 100 years. I wouldn’t use Europe as a model society.
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@Seeky
What, you think people can’t read our message history on this thread? You are a liar.
For reference, the following contain insults as well as a pathetic straw man as if I’m proposing some kind of violence. If a person were to trouble themselves to look at our long history of dialogue over several different threads, they would see that you CONSTANTLY play these games which is why I said you were dishonest and argued in bad faith. Of course there are lots of other insults, straw men, etc in your previous posts.
Uh yeah. So do you advocate fully dismantling Israel as a Jewish ethnostate which would mean Jews would become a minority population and also that they’d have to scrap the large number of laws that currently give Jews a massive set of legal privileges while keeping non-Jews as second class citizens.
This is detailed in the Shahak book I referred to above as well as many other sources (e.g. google).
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“You got that right and colonalism help them do it.”
Racist chic,most of Europe never had colonies.Furthermore we have been victims of colonization for a considerable amount of time,and across a considerable amount of space.Also there is no correlation between colonies and wealth.If there was Portugal would be wealthier than Sweden or Austria.Try again racist black girl.
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as if I’m proposing some kind of violence
I know you’re not proposing it. You’re too afraid. You want to whine. In our last thread, you said ‘the Jews better change their policies or a backlash is coming’. So start it.
So do you advocate fully dismantling Israel as a Jewish ethnostate
I don’t advocate anything. I don’t care. Do you advocate Turkish deep state reconciliation with the Justice and Development Party or do you advocate a redistribution of power back to pre-AKP norms? You don’t care and neither do I.
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commentWaiters and Waitresses aren’t competing with immigrants?
I’m missing something here. Cause I have no idea what he is saying
those who can speak English are. Most aren’t but they have “taken” the kitchen jobs and busboys jobs.
Default user The effect on engineers, physicians, etc. is even worse because it discourages students from taking up those careers in the first place. Why do all that hard work and suffer those heavy loans when there is no guarantee of a decent career
What I’ve been saying all along.
Gig – hispanics, the descendants of the people who lost an empire to 300 drunk spaniards You make it sound so simple when you know there was more to it than that.
For those who have a problem with wages decreasing, quick question. What do you think about those French employees holding their managers hostage?
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Not all “libertarians” are “open border” advocates.
Of course, that’s why I consider myself a “small-l” libertarian, rather than a card-carrying, Libertarian party voter.
I think the recent decades of uncontrolled immigration have been instigated by the elites to prop up socialism in this country.
With the spread of feminism’s population control agenda that results in lower than replacement level demographics with each successive generation since it’s acceptance as the cultural norm, the socialist/collectivist schemes that are now permanent fixtures of the leviathan state of the Federal Government need a replacement level of working class stiffs.
With SWPL’s accepting feminism’s population control ethos, they need to import the people to keep the system propped up.
Don’t you guys know that businesses that hire illegal aliens will for the most part avoid legal trouble AS LONG AS THEY PAY THEIR TAXES TO THE IRS like good little Feudal lords paying tribute to the king for the bounty of their serf’s labors.
Also, by allowing illegal immigration to continue as is, we are serving as an outlet that helps to prop up the extreme corruption of the Mexican government. For every illegal that can come to America to make money, that’s one less person in Mexico without the incentive to clean out the cesspool of the Mexican system.
If we brought home the troops from all the foreign adventures in corporatist imperialism, and patrolled our borders to keep illegals out, as well as return all illegals to their origin countries, there would be a much needed revolution in Mexico in a manner of 2-3 years.
Seeking Alpha – you also need to understand that the power elite encourage immigration and UNassimilation so that they can break America’s sense of nationalistic pride, to advance the integration of the US, Canada and Mexico into a “North American Union.”
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Ovid said Racist chic
Please prove ^^^ this to me. If I felt that way there is no way in hell I would be here or visiting Europe.
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Does that include property rights and the inalienable right of “the pursuit of happiness?”
Ovid,
Under your current government? Hell yeah! Look at those laws where private land is being compulsorily acquired for the “common good” or some such drivel and being sold to developers.
Eminent domain, I think it’s called.
Your current crop of congresscritters don’t give a toss about the Constitution in the main.
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“They have limits to how many hours you can work. Pretty lazy.”
They do more with less.Its called brains.A mule works hard.We dont need to emulate mules.
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Got to go.But I shall return.
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Ovid
So you think Europe is better than America?
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most of Europe never had colonies
Correct and those that didn’t are notably poorer than those that did(England, France, Germany) . An Exception being Spain.
Also there is no correlation between colonies and wealth.
That’s debatable . For example, the Congo didn’t make King Leopold or Belgium wealthy.
If there was Portugal would be wealthier than Sweden or Austria
Or poor leadership and mismanagement of money could lead a country, once rich, to ruin.
Try again racist black girl.
Because I argue a point, I’m racist???? go kiss your own ass jerk.
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Dave From Hawaii
See now, here is a man I can agree with. Low birth rates are a big problem. All the little Roissy’s running around are making that worse. People would rather hire their own then immigrants. Immigration is such a problem because we NEED more workers but aren’t supplying homegrown ones. If we stop immigration but keep the birth rate low (a la Roissy), we’ll have big economic problems.
I’ll trade your childlessness for my immigration. You do the patriotic thing and so will I.
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The woman is far more likely to move her loyalty and emotional attachment to the new man. She is more likely to lose emotional attachment for the original man (the cheatee?). Her sexual attraction for the original man will fall, perhaps completely disappear.
The man is less likely to transfer emotional attachment to the mistress (despite what he might tell her). Charged up with dopamine and testosterone he might even be able to provide for his wife with a newfound swagger.
Agreed, Default User.
A woman will cheat because she’s not emotionally attached, or it’s payback time, which is pretty much the same thing.
Men just don’t get attached in the same way, as discussed here all the time.
Women can try and play like the boys, but in the end they do the most damage to themselves.
Women who play will always be sluts, and it doesn’t matter how often you try and tell them otherwise, they refuse to believe it.
Hence all those articles in the women’s mags devoted to how to have the best orgasm, how to land that hunk, and the columns talking about open relationships.
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nilkUnder your current government? Hell yeah! Look at those laws where private land is being compulsorily acquired for the “common good” or some such drivel and being sold to developers.
Eminent domain, I think it’s called.
Your current crop of congresscritters don’t give a toss about the Constitution in the main.
Nilk, a few years ago eminent domain was stretched to include corporations so that now Wal-Mart can take your land and give you just compensation. Guess what, some of the liberal Supreame court judges(Sandra) sold us out. That’s one of the many reasons I read more into a persons actions versus what they say out of their mouth or call themselves.
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Seeking Alpha,
My point is that immigration policy is essentially a question of groups and thus of group dynamics and identities. The primary arbiter of such policy cannot and should not be economic considerations but larger considerations of culture, identity, religion and history. Randian ideology falsely sees man as a purely economic agent, atomistic, with no inherent connection to his ancestors or his posterity. Needless to say this is not the view of man passed down through the Western tradition to the Founders.
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Ovid,
I believe the Old World colonial powers were:
Britain
France
Belguim
Spain
Portugal
Italy
Germany to an extent, same w/the Netherlands
And so on.
Clearly, China, India and virtually the whole of Africa was colonialized/conquered by one or more of these Old World powers. This is documented historical record.
True, the “stans”, and the Eastern Bloc was for the most part left out of the loop, but not to be outdone, the Soviet Union got in its digs too. Again, check the record.
Here’s the bottom line, O:
I have a greater claim on this land and creed than most posting here. My people have served in every war this nation has ever had, often while still being regarded as less than human themselves, and forced to ride behind Nazis. We built Wall St, and the nation’s Capital. And that’s just for starters.
Now, I know the following may bring great distress to you, Ovid, and for what’s its worth, I’m sorry about that. But the bottomline is, not only am I not leavin’ I’m gonna see to it that I represent. I fully intend to get the full measure of what is due me and mine. Nothing more, nothing less. No matter who don’t like it.
Even you.
Any questions?
The Obsidian
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Here’s yet another example of Seeky lying through his teeth. He attributes a quoted statement to me that I never made.
If you want to see some of my statements on the previous thread that are vaguely related to what he said but without the menacing attitude he tries to inject, check out:
comment a
comment b
You can also search for my handle once the thread is loaded and step through the entire dialogue. BTW, he played EXACTLY the same kind of puerile rhetorical games in that thread.
Yeah, it’s real believable that you’re soooo indifferent about Israel.
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While it is true that Israeli law treats Arab citizens somewhat differently than Jewish ones, the Arabs do have citizenship. Indeed, they have better rights and a better deal than any other Arab people (with the possible recent exception of Iraq). It is also true that, utilizing their opportunities, Arabs are a large and rapidly growing demographic.
If the Israelis have a cold-hearted scheme to be a pure ethno-state they have not been very single-minded about its execution.
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@Roissy – As a college educated, professional class worker in liberal DC, I’m sure you have an excellent grasp of what working class contractors want.
From the ones I’m friends with – they support legal immigration like me.
Emphasis added.
Unfortunately for you, Seeking, not all immigrants are legal. Gone on a tour of your local sanctuary city lately? Barry and his crew want illegals counted in your next census, and I don’t think that’s just so they know who to round up and deport for breaking immigration laws.
There are a whole raft of groups in local and state government that support illegal immigration under the “human rights” bullshit, and they are taking taxes that could be spent on roads and defence, for example.
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Oh, almost forgot, hey Chic! Glad to see ya back.
Something else: I too think the current immigration debate is a bit oversimplified, perhaps a bit intellectually dishonest. I say that because we’ve heard all the arguments before in the past-with the Italians, the Slavs, of course the Jews, and Irish. All of these groups however, went on to become Americans.
What the problem is today, it seems to me, is that there seems little interest in helping newcomers to this country *become* Americans; its as if we expect them to simply figure it out on their own and do it. And I think its a kind of slap in the face to what it means to BE an American, because we don’t seem to be interested in doing some work in this area. We only want to take what the country gives, and give nothing back.
I don’t buy the premise that a Mexican, and that’s what we’re talking about here, has some immutable flaw that prevents him from being an American. I think what prevents him from being an American is his own will to do so, and assistance from other Americans to help him on the path.
O
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Obsidian,
Question, what is it that is due you and yours as you see it?
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most of Europe never had colonies
Correct and those that didn’t are notably poorer than those that did(England, France, Germany) . An Exception being Spain.
Rubbish. Let’s see. Richest nonmicrostate countries in Europe, from richest to less rich, GDP per capita from the CIA:
Norway
Ireland
Switzerland
Netherlands
Iceland
Austria
Sweden
Belgium
Denmark
Finland
United Kingdom
Germany
Spain
European Union average (includes lots of really poor ex-commie places)
France
etc
The countries that had colonies are the poorest countries in Western Europe and now only slightly above the richest ex-communist countries. Apart from microstates, oil states (Norway) and bubble states (Ireland’s probably going to go down pretty fast), the richest country in the world is, as usual, Switzerland, which has been the richest society for ages apart from that brief period when industrialization pulled the UK and the US somewhat ahead.
The Swiss have focused on building their country instead of building everyone else’s country and it seems to work much better than getting yourself hated while trying to help everyone else. Staying out of wars helps, too, but a key part of staying out of wars is not being on a perpetual quest to save everyone else.
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Big economic problems? Good, we need some kind of catalyst to overthrow the socialist/collectivist zeitgeist of our current system. I’d like to see the whole damn thing come crashing down.
I would like to see all those that would “do the jobs that Americans won’t do” go home, than end the welfare state as we know it….than we’ll see how many Americans don’t REALLY wanna work for their own subsistence once we take away the food stamps, section 8 housing subsidies and all that other collectivist wealth redistribution programs that promote socio-economic class warfare and our current two party politics SCAM.
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Big economic problems? Good, we need some kind of catalyst to overthrow the socialist/collectivist zeitgeist of our current system. I’d like to see the whole damn thing come crashing down.
Again, a good point. I’m arguing for maximum short-term economic benefit. Maybe we need to starve the beast, let the welfare state crash, and then go from there.
And also, definitely agree that without section 8 and welfare, a lot more jobs would open up. It would also depress wages though.
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if you can’t fathom the costs then you aren’t acknowledging the externalities.
Potential costs. Higher crime. Lower wages for some. Strain on welfare state.
Potential costs? Don’t be going there, Seeking. Who pays for english language lessons for immigrants? Who pays for the free leaflets in your doctor’s surgery in 20 different languages? Who makes all those educational videos in the semi-government organisations who provide support services to migrants legal and other?
Higher crime? For a look at how that’s working in Oz, have a look at one former detective’s view. That piece is from a few years ago, but it’s remarkable how it’s all playing out currently.
Also note it specifically focuses on Middle Eastern crime, but with all the ruckus going on over there, we’ve a remarkable number of ME’s here these days.
Potential benefit. Lower prices for some. Increased consumption of goods and services. Better demographics.
Neither of us knows which outweighs which. Both sides have ’statistics’ to back up their case. Now can you please stop repeating over and over that we don’t ‘get’ externalities. Clearly we do.
Better demographics, yeah, I can see that, when La Raza can stop downtown LA, and leftards are supporting the very groups that are working towards your downfall.
Controlled, limited, legal immigration is a good thing, but we don’t have that any more. We have the bleeding hearts brigade standing with the door wide open, and the benefits to someone with an axe to grind and the will to play the game are endless.
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PA
You’d rather insist that a whole class of your fellow citizens were dispossessed for the benefit of your cheaper yardwork.
PA, you seem shocked. Hobbs and Locke time. Please don’t, your average human being is evil from the word go. Slavery, indentured servitude, war, genocide, serfdom etc… out fellow human beings for the most part are pure trash.
Lurker said consistently seeks to blame the white man and racism for all of the problems he sees
SMH
Please stop. On page 14 and 38 of his book, he says the exact opposite. People are putting all types of words into the man’s mouth. It’s like those who damn Sex and City but never sat down to watch the show.
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“Correct and those that didn’t are notably poorer than those that did(England, France, Germany) . An Exception being Spain.”
The wealthiest countries in Europe (in no particular order) are Luxembourg,Switzerland,Denmark,Norway,Sweden,Austria,and more recently Ireland.None had colonies.
Of the former colonial powers,all have become considerably wealthier after they lost their colonies.
“For example, the Congo didn’t make King Leopold or Belgium wealthy”
One monarch does not a nation,much less a continent,make.
“Or poor leadership and mismanagement of money could lead a country, once rich, to ruin.”
Or it takes a lot more than simply painting the map blue to achieve wealth.Like brains,and work.
“Because I argue a point, I’m racist???? go kiss your own ass jerk.”
No.Its the substance of your point that is racist.No wonder you guys/gals are so poor.As for kissing my own ass,thats a new one to me.Perhaps you can show me how its done.You first Chicky.Love ya.
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if i tell you that in the US we drive on the right side of the road, and you agree with me in the abstract that in the US we drive on the right side of the road but then continue driving on the left side, i would justifiably question your understanding of the word “get”.
LOL OMG, Roissy – Seeking’s Australian!!
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Seeking Alpha,
If you want a thorough understanding of the non-Randian, non-liberal traditionalist (I’d say correct) view on immigration and national identity, you can do no better than this excellent series of articles by Takuan Seiyo published over at Brusselsjournal.com:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3612
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3620
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3661
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3684
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3688
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3700
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3712
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3762
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3775
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3805
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3815
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3869
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Jaaakelli Rubbish. Let’s see. Richest nonmicrostate countries in Europe, from richest to less rich, GDP per capita from the CIA:
Norway
Ireland
Switzerland
Netherlands
I can’t recall reading about any of those countries attending a G8 meeting.
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AE,
My full rights as an American citizen; to determine my own fate, to live where I wish, to choose the mate of my choice, and so on. To go as far as my talent and hardwork will take me. There are those still among us, who under the rubric of flowcharts and technospeak, want to attempt to block me from these things: ie, because I’m Black I cannot possibly be smart enough or industrious enough to achieve anything, and if I do it must automatically be suspect.
Black folk ain’t got nothin to prove, man. We’ve done more for this country than many, maybe even most, have. I don’t deny that we got problems, but I don’t feel like because of that, that somehow means that I should have to answer for it moreso than anyone else here.
I know there’s a concern on the part of some about Reparations. I think it’s an interesting debate to have, but I’m not necessarily committed to one side or the other in that debate. In fact what I’m talking really doesn’t have anything to do with that.
Holla if you have any further questions.
O
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I can’t recall reading about any of those countries attending a G8 meeting.
And what the fuck do attending G8 meetings have to do with wealth? You’re in G8 or G-whatever if they vote you in.
chic, I’m usually not nasty, but you keep repeating this and you never make any sense. Have you ever taken an IQ test?
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Ok, here we go…
Fellas, I really don’t see what the debte is here: the Old World powers, that mattered, DID colonize China, India and Africa-a huge portion of the Earth. That’s a fact. Now, we can argue whether that was a good or bad thing ultimately for the Chinese, Indian and African peoples, fair enough. But can we at least agree, that White guys from Europe, a pretty significant portion of it, DID do the deed?
Sheesh.
O
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What the hell is their to debate?
The taking of money from one person alive today who has never enslaved anyone, and giving it to another person who has never been enslaved?
How about this angle – even the poorest of black descendants of slaves in today’s America have a higher standard of living than many of the countries of origin for which their ancestors were taken…
How about “reverse reparations?”
LMAO
As a person of native Hawaiian ancestry, I certainly have more of a case for “reparations” than ANY black American descendant of slaves.
My people were dispossessed of our lands, our culture and have never truly recovered from Western Colonialism. I can accept this reality – but refuse to let it shape my own attitudes regarding what people “owe” me.
All you blacks that are pissed about your distant ancestors being taken from Africa? You can always go back!
Where do we native Hawaiians have to go? Our ancestral lands are in the hands of wealthy, elite private landowners of the State Government!
But that’s besides the real point.
I refuse to fall into the trap of “victimology.” Nobody owes me anything, I’ll make it on my own, thank you very much.
Welfare is destructive to a man’s soul. Welfare is destructive to the nuclear family. You already know damn well what welfare has done to devastate the black American family.
Reparations would be even more destructive. Why would you want to even consider it?
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He’s a tool and giving us a bad name.
From a social justice persepective is it Fair that the west takes the 3rd worlds Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Social Activists Builders and Labourers??
These people are the 3rd worlds only hope at developmemt, economic growth and institutional improvement.
It is very selfish of us to take them.
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Hi Dave,
By all means, knoc yourself out; I think you and yours may indeed have a legit case.
Again, I don’t have a dog in the fight so to speak, so some of your ire kinda goes over my head. But what I reject is this idea that, because it was something that happened less than 300 years ago (and ended less than 200) that we should simpl “forget about it”. I think the full throated Reparations debate will serve a lot of good-one thing it will do right away is educate the many woefully ignorant White brothers here about their national history, which is very important.
As for “going back to Africa”, uh uh son. America is my home, and I intend to make I better. And I understand that for some, the very presence my face makes, makes them uncomfortable. Good! They need to understand that this has never been a “White” country, and it will never will be. We have been here since the beginning, and they should come to fully embrace that.
Other than that, I truly do appreciate your many insightful comments wrt Game and your marriage. Keep on keepin on.
O
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Obsidian,
Well, if someone as ostensibly reasonable as you can’t fully appreciate everything white america has done (overdone)specifically for black america over the last 40 years then maybe there is no hope. Here is a partial list of white america’s attempted absolutions that Lawrence Auster put together over at his blog View from the Right:
“….I’ve suddenly realized with a chill that Jefferson’s dark prophecies of murderous black-on-white racial warfare in his Notes on the State of Virginia were not nearly dark enough. After all, the enduring black racial hatred against whites that Jefferson predicted was based solely on the slavery that existed in Jefferson’s time. Jefferson never envisioned 600,00o white men dead and the South destroyed in a war that resulted in the end of slavery. Jefferson never envisioned the 14th Amendment that gave the federal government power to force states to treat blacks equally regarding their basic human rights. Jefferson never envisioned the Incorporation Doctrine, by which the Constitution was turned on its head to eliminate state’s rights. Jefferson never envisioned the creation of a network of black colleges and other institutions devoted to black uplift, all paid for by white philanthropists. Jefferson never envisioned Brown v. Board of Education which required southern white schools to admit blacks. Jefferson never envisioned the Civil Rights movement, in which white America as a whole resolved to change the way blacks were treated and made the overcoming of racial discrimination against blacks into America’s sacred moral cause. Jefferson never envisioned the coming into being of a huge black middle class, unprecedented in history. Jefferson never envisioned 40 years of social pay-offs to blacks in the form of trillions of dollars in welfare payments and other transfer payments. Jefferson never envisioned minority racial preferences, in which millions of blacks throughout this land were awarded with the possession of jobs from which they cannot be fired no matter what their incompetence and misbehavior. Jefferson never envisoned the gutting of America’s moral standards in an effort to remove the standards by which black behavior was found wanting. Jefferson never imagined white America turning on itself in a spasm of self-hatred over its historic sins against blacks. Jefferson never envisioned America delegitimizing itself as a historic country over its past treatment of blacks. Jefferson never envisioned a culture in which blacks would be treated as moral exemplars and heroes and symbols of America, far beyond their actual contributions. Jefferson never envisioned a situation in which black criminals and rapists would prey on whites year after year and this fact would never be mentioned in the press, out of a need of white America to cover up black sins and maintain the illusion of white guilt. Jefferson never envisioned the Wichita massacre and the Knoxville atrocity and the way they would be ignored by white America in order to avoid casting a light on the reality of black anti-white savagery. Jefferson never envisioned a popular culture centered on black-dominated professional athletics in which millions of white men breathlessly follow the exploits of black athletes, many of them criminal thugs, who are paid more for a single game than Jefferson ever possessed in hard cash in his lifetime. ”
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009495.html
I wonder, is all this still not enough? How much is enough?
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“So you think Europe is better than America?”
In most ways,si.N’est-ce pas?
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Obsidian
People check the DNA in the iberian peninsula, everyone crazy to prove that all iberians are half-african. What they found was:
– by far the largest non-european component in the DNA came from Syria/Lebanon, what is consistent with a mass exodus of elite arabs when the Ummayad caliphate fell in Damascus. Around 10%of DNA. Which is also consistent with those elite arabs forming massive harems
– the second largest was sephardic jew, also consistent with the high status everyone knows was given to jews during the Andalus Caliphate. around 5%
– the third largest was from the berbers of North Africa.
– the fourth, around 1% and less, was subsaharan african
There were few black emirs, and only in its terminal state did the Caliphs of Cordova relied in -mercenary – black armies. A mostly black army was summoned to defend Cordova in 1212, but was destroyed in Tolosa, the battle that settled the fate of Al-Andalus (at least until now…) . The battle of Tolosa is still commemorated in the countryside of Spain, Portugal and whenever their descendants form the majority, what includes many cities in Brazil. I took part as a schoolchild many times, usually in moorish side.
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Obsidian
The flowchart guys are not arguing that you (as an individual) cannot or should not achieve anything.
They are not arguing that if you (as an individual) achieve something it is suspect. They are arguing that if you (as an individual) cannot achieve something it is not necessarily suspect (i.e., bigotry etc.).
Although it may not always feel thay way, that is a very different argument.
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Oh, I don’t think it should be forgotten…indeed, it is the hallmark of SWPL liberalism to beat every single descendant of Europeans in America to learn about racial injustice and to feel guilt for the misdeeds of people committed by people long dead on other people who are just as long dead.
But passing some sort of reparations would be absolutely destructive on so many levels…THAT is where my “ire” is coming from (nothing personal with you, my friend).
You think America’s got a race relations problem now? Wait till the Federal Government is taking money from a white majority who for the most part are not descended from slave-masters/traders, and giving it to a bunch of black Americans…and all the attendant pathologies on the Black Community that come from a further extension of entitlement wealth redistribution through coercive government.
I’ve seen many fellow Hawaiians consumed with bitter hatred, and they’ve twisted their own souls…which in fact CONTINUES the very oppression inflicted on our long dead ancestors.
Reparations would be an unmitigated social and cultural disaster for both Black and White Americans.
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about the lock and load thing, google Karl Denninger, Peter SChiff. If they are correct, it will be lock and load indeed.
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AE,
What I fail to grasp is how you could get that I’m in essence, an America-hatah from my many words on the topic in this forum. If anything, even the most casual reading of those words reveals my deep and abiding love for my country and its founding ideals, which were created by people who didn’t look like me, and in many cases (Jefferson) owned people who looked like me.
The bottomline AE, is that we ain’t “there” yet-Race still matters in America. That’s a fact. And no, all White folk ain’t bad. Nor are all Black folk, good. We gotta keep talking *to* each other, instead of *about* or *at* each other, if we’re ever gonna work this thing out.
That’s what I’m sayin.
O
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Dave, out of curiosity, were you born and raised in Hawaii? Is your ex-wife also (part?) Hawaiian? I wonder what Hawaiian culture has to teach PUA culture, being as it is/was so oof-oriented.
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Obsidian,
I never said you were an America hater. But you claim we’re not there yet and that’s exactly my point. I just gave you an incomplete list of the efforts white america has undergone to fix this thing, efforts that go right to the heart of white america and America proper and yet it’s still not enough. The truth is white america has done all that could reasonably be expected of them and much more. It’s past time black america recognized this.
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Obsidian wrote:
Given that African Americans makeup roughly 13% of the national population at present, how does this factor into your statements? Are there inherent differences between them and the White majority that has some kind of political implications, and if so, what, and how?
To be perfectly brutal, Obsidian, your concern is foolish.
Blacks are one of the groups most harmed by low-skill imported labor.
The ‘Open Borders’ crowds most common immigrant is Mexicans. Mexicans are perfectly willing to ethnically cleanse neighborhoods of black people, and are doing so right now.
I’m kinda wondering what you point is Obsidian?
Do you like your wages being lowered? Do you like blacks being ethnically cleansed?
Really, what is your point?
Do you just want to sting white people no matter what the cost to blacks? Are you gonna do it no matter what?
In what way does immigration help the black people of America?
Really. Do you even have an answer?
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“And they collapsed from in control of the world to a slow-growth, weak-military region in 100 years. I wouldn’t use Europe as a model society”
Ther control of the worl lasted longer than ours.Their military is weak only in comparison to ours.That will change fairly soon.Furthermore,the extra-European powers which succeeded them owe their rise to European civilization.Slow growth is preferable to phony paper “growth” unevenly spread.And no Bernie Madoffs as a cherry on top.What society would you use as a model?Obamaland?
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Comment,
With all due respect, I think it is your comments and questions, that are at the least a bit odd if not foolish; I never addressed or brought up the issue of immigration wrt Black folks, *you did*. Therefore, you really don’t know what I think one way or another, and if you really wanted to know, all you had to do is ask. 🙂
Now…
Since you kinda sorta asked, I agree with your premise: illegal immigration dos indeed hurt Black Men particularly hard, and I am disappointed by the CBC for their apparent failure to be more outspoken about this. For whatever reason, Black Men remain in the bluecollar/working class sectors of the economy, and are being displaced by illegal, often Mexican immigrants. This is something that should be stopped.
I can also tell you Comment, that while the “leaders” on the national level may not say much on the matter, it is a matter of concern on the Black street, if you will; tensions are becoming apparent, especially in places like California.
Hope this answers your question.
O
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Born and raised. Part Hawaiian. And my one and only current wife (not divorced) is not Part-Hawaiian.
I don’t think Hawaiian culture can teach PUA culture anything…since the “oof-oriented” part of it was based on a completely different moral and religious code, and a highly stratified, caste system.
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Dave – thx for indulging my curiosity
Never is there nothing to learn. Moral and religious codes are beside the point at Chateau Roissy, no?
For example, this is a fascinating statement, “With a very fluid sense of sexuality and no concept of the proprietary sanctions that Western marriage implies, all forms of sexual activity were enjoyed openly and without concern.”
but whatever, it’s off-topic…. thx again.
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OK Gig, I’ll give you that. But you still have not accounted for the VERY Black Shaka Zulu, who put it on both the Brits & Dutch, w/o guns. They of course, had guns. It was a route.
Let’s also include Mansa Musa, again he was Black, and Haiti’s Toussaint L’Overture. Hannibal is widely regarded as Black.
Their strategies are studied at military academies here and abroad.
Comments?
O
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Obsidian,
I don’t mean to badger you but you are asking or implying important questions that already have answers. For example, you write:
“For whatever reason, Black Men remain in the bluecollar/working class sectors of the economy…”
I imagine you must be aware of the extensive scientific literature on IQ and other racial differences. Charles Murray has covered this area extensively. Here is his survey of the current science on IQ:
http://www.aei.org/publications/filter.all,pubID.23075/pub_detail.asp
There is a significant, approx. 1 standard deviation, difference in average IQ between white and black americans. Further, this difference likely is 2/3 to 3/4 genetic (ie. unalterable) in nature.
Is this the be all/end all of existence? Of course not. But what it does mean, along with the other signficant and unalterable behavorial differences between blacks and whites as researched by Richard Lynn, is that all the black-white performance gaps that exist in our society: the education gap, wealth gap, income gap, crime gap, prison population gap, homeownership gap, etc. will never go away.
In short, because of the fact of large IQ and other behavioral differences, blacks will never achieve the same level of material success as whites across all the broad measures that exist. In fact, it isn’t nor will it ever be close. And this fact is significant since the ruling ideology of our elites mandates equality of outcomes between the races even if it means massive wealth confiscation and destruction for the purpose of redistribution.
Carleton Putnam wrote two excellent books in the 1960’s on the subject of black-white racial differences: Race and Reason and Race and Reality.
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDFs/Race_and_Reason.pdf
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/putnam.htm
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traitor:
Which people is that? How many waves of immigration do we go back? Are only British immigrants American? British Scottish and Irish? Germans and Italians?
ah, it’s about time the old irish immigrant trope card got played.
think of ethnicities and races vis a vis the american melting pot as concentric circles. in the middle, you have your core circle. that is the founding stock of a nation. in the US’s case, that includes what was started by the first four waves of english/scots/irish immigration a few hundred years ago. see: albion’s seed.
in the next outer circle you have your northern continental europeans — people like the germans, dutch, and magnussons.
in the next circle, your southern euros. the great italian immigration wave comes to mind.
(africans that came to the US via slavery i consider a special case having little to say about current immigration policy. jews are also a special case because of their tiny numbers, high IQs and extreme ethnocentricity. see: jdate.)
in the next concentric ring you will find your east euros and various slavs and high steppe peoples. in the next, the levantine groups. and WAAAAAY out in the distance in the farthest ring outside of the center circle, you find your latino, asian, and african diaspora.
as you go outward into wider concentric circles, getting away from the solid center circle that props it all up, you will encounter less of each of the following:
a. ability/desire to assimilate
b. belief in and natural inclination toward the anglo saxon tradition.
c. bedrock conservative values
d. bedrock libertarian values
e. bedrock traditional liberal values
f. shared trust with the majority white population
g. cooperative spirit
h. cultural affinity
i. shared values
j. a general feeling of well-being and happiness
k. “american-ness”
so when you say that the irish were initially not welcomed (a bit of a myth, btw) and use that to extrapolate your transnationalist post-american morality to the issue of central american and mexican immigration to the US, you are engaging in sophistry of the sleaziest, cheapest kind.
or: the english are much farther from the mexicans than they are from the irish.
now high IQ mediates some of this natural human instinct toward kin proclivity, so you can have a brahmin and a chinese do well in the US without subverting the general tenor of the nation. but if 500 million chinese were to land in the US, despite their IQs and studiousness, such a demographic change would be the death knell of america as it has always been known.
iow: numbers matter.
fyi, i say all this as someone who is not a blueblood wasp but can think clearly about the factors that made his country great.
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“”””””””David Alexander,
I would not sell my niece for money. I would sleep with a girl with A-cups for a minimum of $100 if she was good looking with nails, $250 otherwise.”””””””””””””
Wow that is a big change before no hookers now its ok. Good Job Dave.
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Obsidian
The Zulu Nation never fought Europeans while Shaka was King. Shaka died about 40 years before the British/Zulu war.
That Zulu warriors were as brave as any who ever lived has never been in dispute. But they only beat Europeans when Europeans ran out of ammunition. A lot of nonsense has been produced to obscure this unPC fact but there it is.
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roissy, Obsidian
I like Steve Sailer’s description of race as an “extremely extended family.” It describes what roissy was saying and explains the seeming contradictions in attitudes to different immigrant groups.
The one thing that helped the Irish, and others, assimilate was the massive immigration pause that happened from the late 1920s until the late 1960s.
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traitor:
Okay, those were all Western Europeans (although Europeans themselves don’t consider themselves ‘all Western European). What about Slavs? That’s a different race entirely? Should we kick out Slavic Roissy?
i’m 1/4 slav. but the girls i love are 100% slavic.
My loyalty is to the United States.
you have a counterproductive way of expressing that loyalty.
I want to see her be as strong and rich as possible.
i’ve got news for ya: 50 million mexican and central american emigrants ain’t gonna get you there.
in fact, just the opposite.
as the results are beginning to bear out.
Not just for the elites but for the workers and the middle class too. I just happen to believe that a free market with few regulations is the best way to do that.
the great gaping hole in the middle of the libertarian philosophy (and i say this as someone who is sympathetic to many of their views) is a complete inability to recognize that all the free market principles in the world don’t amount to jack shit when up against ancient human emotional drives and broad ethnic and racial biological and cultural inheritances. these drives and inheritances may be irrational to you, but they aren’t going anywhere soon.
So unless your forefathers came over on the Mayflower, you can shove your false-patriotism up your ass.
the issue of immigration restriction makes you emotional. why is that?
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Sailer article on race as an extended family.
http://www.isteve.com/makingsense.htm
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Roissy —
Because he’s Jewish.
It makes the overwhelming majority of Jews emotional.
They’re also the decisive factor in why we don’t enforce our immigration laws, and don’t make them more restrictive. Of course they’re allied with other groups, like the Catholic Church (much more than average non Hispanic Catholics), and the left generally which they lead, but it’s their massively influential position in the media that’s decisive. There Jews cannot control all coverage but do manage to have something close to a veto on issues they care greatly about, by massive networking and vicious shaming around PC bedrock stuff (which they heavily created) such as the vast overuse of “racism”.
But yeah Jews mostly got to where they are by being smart and very well educated and driven to excel in intellectual status and money more than getting lots of hot girls or kicking back, etc. Though their heavy ethnocentrism, which unlike WASP or e.g. Episcopalian ethnocentrism no one and least of all WASPs are allowed to criticize or else they’ll be called “anti-Semitic”, sure hasn’t hurt.
I’m not a Jew hater at all. But I do believe in calling a spade a spade. In being a realist, generally.
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“””””””””””””””””””Default User
nilk
I found Gunslinger’s idea interesting. Like you, I am not sure I completely buy it.
I do believe that the effects of male and female infidelity are very different.
The woman is far more likely to move her loyalty and emotional attachment to the new man. She is more likely to lose emotional attachment for the original man (the cheatee?). Her sexual attraction for the original man will fall, perhaps completely disappear.
The man is less likely to transfer emotional attachment to the mistress (despite what he might tell her). Charged up with dopamine and testosterone he might even be able to provide for his wife with a newfound swagger.
While I don’t condone cheating (a man’s word should be his bond), I believe the cost is lower when the man does it.””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Not cheating as in bitch boy gay behind the back style but fucking other woman in truthfull man in front of your face because I am man and my word is my bond style. When I say I love you its true When I say forever till we die it is true because I am a man and can make it true.
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Roissy,
Most whites support taxation, regulation, foreign aid, Israel, public schools, affirmative action, foreign wars, etc.
If it takes more Mexicans to bring down these whites, then I’m all for it. Crash the whole corrupt system. Break the power of the cities. We are going to get riots, hopefully.
We are about to live in interesting times. I’m glad I don’t have kids, but do have guns and wealth.
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traitor and a sophist:
One other thing. The founding class of our country are the elites. The displaced and the poor – the ones who face competition from unskilled immigrants – are the Scottish, Irish, German, mostly Catholic immigrants.
if you’re gonna have elites, may as well have the elites least likely to screw you over. i don’t see an iranian elite ruling over a scotch-irish commonweal doing so well.
By your definition, if Mexican immigrants hurt the Scots, Irish and German Catholics, but help the Anglo-Saxon Protestants, then opponents of immigration are disloyal.
the elites a country do not make.
That’s because I don’t think there is an ideal ethnic/racial/religious composition.
ideal is a loaded SWPL showstopper word. the better term is harmonious.
I think that a lazy WASP is worse than a hard working Asian.
if it is proven that chinese are on average harder workers than WASPs would you then support the transplantation of 300 million chinese into the US to assuage your sanctimonious indignity?
it would be the… rational… thing to do.
I think that a stupid Scot is worse than a smart Slav.
what if that stupid scot works nobly as a carpenter while the smart slav runs a multi-billion dollar ponzi scheme through his hedge fund that helps bring down the financial industry?
i don’t know what made me think of that example…
I think that an honest Hindu is better than a dishonest Jew.
IQ and honesty are nice traits to have, and critical in determining a nation’s ability to create and sustain a prosperous modern economy, but it isn’t the whole story. hence, the accurate observation to which i noticed you did not address the first time i asked you this question that the immigration of a billion smart east asians would not be good for america if it is america you love so much.
I think that what makes this country isn’t the ethnicity of the people, but their character.
these uplifting words shield you from reality. temperament varies. character does not exist in a vacuum.
I think people obsessed with ethnicity instead of character are people of poor character.
“i think people obsessed with reality instead of feelgood moral preening are people beneath me.”
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the great gaping hole in the middle of the libertarian philosophy ….these drives and inheritances may be irrational to you, but they aren’t going anywhere soon.
Great Post – I am a Libertarian and agree 100% Libertarians assume a state of optimality, (perfect competition, information etc etc) that provides “first best” solutions.
Our theories dont deal well with game theory, and “the theory of second best”.
Many / most new entrants seek to create informational asymetries and use game theory in new markets and cultures.
Libertarians assume win-win. New entrants assume a zero-sum game. In the end it doesn’t really matter whose right or wrong, because in battle / a fight for survival those who play AS IF it were a zero sum game from the outset will prevail.
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Mark in ARk Crash the whole corrupt system. Break the power of the cities.
And more elites will step in. As their power grows most will become what the former elites were. Things will never be perfect sweetheart.
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If you want to understand some human dynamics man look above. Doug wants to be a “friend” but he is also interested in bhetti. Kind of wild shit. So he tries to pretend to be a “friend” by pointing out bhetti’s like of me as if it needed pointing out. Remember for future reference folks if this comes up. I also think whiskey is right on the beta killing the alpha. I will have to make sure I look for the signs of a man trying to move in when I do have my 10 woman making me rich as fuck and only brag about it on here. He He He.
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africans that came to the US via slavery i consider a special case having little to say about current immigration policy
In other words, given the choice, you’d rather not have any black people in the country.
as you go outward into wider concentric circles, getting away from the solid center circle that props it all up, you will encounter less of each of the following
We get it. Whites only. Stop trying to dress it up with fancy rhetoric.
Wow that is a big change before no hookers now its ok. Good Job Dave.
No, I stated that I would have an A-cup woman pay me $250 to have sex with her.
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Seeking Alpha = typical Jewish internationalist open-borders fanatic
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this question that the immigration of a billion smart east asians would not be good for america if it is america you love so much
Yes, it would be good as it would provide a billion new future citizens of high IQ and low violence.
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I think it’s best to seperate “libertarian” theory and “Libertarian Party” or “Randian” theory.
There is an entire school of thought in libertarian-minded circles that deal entirely in anti-statist ideology…i.e. promulgating the original intent of the founder’s of the US Constitution to limit the power of the government in the citizen’s daily lives. Maintaining Personal freedom and individuality as the penultimate concern of any political action, and the idea that the true free market is the basis for providing the most widespread equality of opportunity (not results!) to achieve individual prosperity.
Many libertarians don’t believe “utopia” would be created…only that the problems inherent in some of what we espouse in such ideas can and do have drawbacks…but they are far less destructive than the other forms of political philosophy that empower the ultimate entity that ALWAYS interferes with personal liberty and freedom – the GOVERNMENT.
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Obsidian dodged:
Comment,
With all due respect, I think it is your comments and questions, that are at the least a bit odd if not foolish; I never addressed or brought up the issue of immigration wrt Black folks, *you did*. Therefore, you really don’t know what I think one way or another, and if you really wanted to know, all you had to do is ask. 🙂
Now…
Since you kinda sorta asked,
I didn’t ask, Obsidian, because I already knew.
Obsidian said it right here:
Something else: I too think the current immigration debate is a bit oversimplified, perhaps a bit intellectually dishonest. I say that because we’ve heard all the arguments before in the past-with the Italians, the Slavs, of course the Jews, and Irish. All of these groups however, went on to become Americans.
What the problem is today, it seems to me, is that there seems little interest in helping newcomers to this country *become* Americans; its as if we expect them to simply figure it out on their own and do it. And I think its a kind of slap in the face to what it means to BE an American, because we don’t seem to be interested in doing some work in this area. We only want to take what the country gives, and give nothing back.
I don’t buy the premise that a Mexican, and that’s what we’re talking about here, has some immutable flaw that prevents him from being an American. I think what prevents him from being an American is his own will to do so, and assistance from other Americans to help him on the path.
Pro-immigration. RABIDLY pro-immigration. ‘We’ are not doing ENOUGH for immigrants.
As Obsidian said:
What the problem is today, it seems to me, is that there seems little interest in helping newcomers to this country *become* Americans; its as if we expect them to simply figure it out on their own and do it.
My comments caused Obsidian to say:
Since you kinda sorta asked, I agree with your premise: illegal immigration dos indeed hurt Black Men particularly hard, and I am disappointed by the CBC for their apparent failure to be more outspoken about this. For whatever reason, Black Men remain in the bluecollar/working class sectors of the economy, and are being displaced by illegal, often Mexican immigrants. This is something that should be stopped.
Anti-immigration.
Maybe Obsidian snapped out of his ‘everything is based on racism’ trance for a few seconds and saw his unemployed friends around him. Don’t worry, Obsidian, I’m sure your eyes glazed over again a few seconds later.
Obsidian can do a little dance between ‘legal’ and ‘illegal’ immigration, but there is little difference between allowing in 2 million Mexicans in as illegal immigrants and allowing in the same 2 million as legal immigrants.
To all those arguing tired racial stuff with Obsidian, notice I got him to admit illegal immigration should be stopped. Did any of you do better?
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megatroll:
In other words, given the choice, you’d rather not have any black people in the country.
reading comprehension is not your friend.
or were you just being a lying, slanderous fuck?
your piss poor character suggests the latter.
We get it. Whites only. Stop trying to dress it up with fancy rhetoric.
you get nothing. no surprise there, trollboy.
Yes, it would be good as it would provide a billion new future citizens of high IQ and low violence.
at the cost of dissolving america into china 2. some things are not worth bartering.
ps shoot yourself already.
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Roissy —
There’s a lot in that post I agree with. However it does strike me as a bit too deduced from first principals, which aren’t bad as far as they go, and too little empirical.
Where I mainly disagree with you are the case of NE Asians. Yes you’re right that an enormous swamping of America by them would change the country enormously and not in ways that those of us who mostly like European derived culture, particularly before it became so decadent in the last few decades, would want.
However I don’t think you can simply look at the racial distance from British Isles or European ancestry and conclude that the further away, the greater will be the problems of shared values, assimilation and mutually beneficial symbiosis. Chinese are further racially from this founding European stock than Middle Eastern or Pakistani Muslims are (who are all Caucasians), but they’re in many ways closer in values and a lot less antagonistic.
I think quite a good measure of cultural and racial compatibility is how much intermarriage there is, especially among the top half of the respective populations, IQ or education or income wise.
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your piss poor character suggests the latter.
No, I’d argue that my piss low negro IQ determined the the following:
Original Quote: africans that came to the US via slavery i consider a special case having little to say about current immigration policy
Follow Up Statement: out in the distance in the farthest ring outside of the center circle, you find your latino, asian, and african diaspora.
Next Follow Up Statement: as you go outward into wider concentric circles, getting away from the solid center circle that props it all up, you will encounter less of each of the following
The “following” in that case refers to the ability to assimilate to America political and social values and the ability to tolerate and work with white people per your perspective.
Thus, by those factors written by you, the only thing left to conclude is that if given the choice, you view the Africans imported as slaves to at the opposite end of desirable immigrants due to their inability to assimilate, and thus, the vast majority of the black population in the United States is far away from being ideal candidates for immigration.
ps shoot yourself already.
Shooting myself is such a quaint way of suicide. I’d prefer to electrocute myself with the electricity for my beloved trains.
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point taken doug. relatedly, a rabidly muslim white frenchman would likely be a worse fit in the US than a pro-american christian korean.
my stark illustration was a broad outline, insufficiently covering all the bases, and it should be noted that numbers along with national origin are of the essence in any discussion of immigration. the US is big enough to absorb 100,000 el salvadorans with assimilation working at full throttle and without externalities becoming unmanageable. but 10 million el salvadorans… well, that’s a whole different ball game.
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Comment,
Well, I see poor comprehension is a problem indeed.
Clearly, my comments above addressed two differing issues: immigration, and *illegal immigration*, the latter of which you had asked me about. Please correct me if I’m wrong?
I stand by what I said: on the general question of immigration, I say that in the year 2009, we as Americans collectively, simply don’t care enough to pass on our values to those who newly arrive here. Now, having said that, those newcomers have a responsibility to do their part to learn the language, the history and the culture and values that makes our country what it is-and you know what, Comment? From my own direct experience, very few newcomers I’ve personally seen, seem to want to cling on to the ways of the Old Country. Many try hard to learn the language, work hard, etc. And I happen to know quite a few Hispanics who are quite down on the idea of illegals coming accross the border.
When it comes to the latter question, illegal immigration, again, I say that it does indeed hurt Black Men workers, because these guys can get work at much cheaper rates in large part *because* they’re illegals. So no, I don’t think that’s fair to American citizens, and neither do the Black folk I know, which, if you don’t mind my saying so, is probably a good bit more than you know.
As for the unemployement status of Black Men overall, I say some of that is self inflicted, no doubt about it. Nor do I make any excuse for it.
But if you think you can somehow use that as some kind cudgel on me, you came to the wrong place, homey. I’ve worked all my life, and not Beta Boy work either. I know what it means to hit a lick; working with my hands is no stranger to me.
So, let’s recap:
Obsidian favors *legal* immigration
Obsidian disfavors *illegal* immigration
Legitimate American citizens should compete for work along the lines of legitimate free market lines. Let the best Man win.
Obsidian makes no excuse for menbers of his own Race who can’t, won’t or don’t take advantage of opportunity when it presents itself.
But
Obsidian refuses to be left holding the bag for the actions of others.
Capice?
O
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Roissy, Dave Alex,
Hmm. I can see where Dave’s going w/his line of thought, but to my mind it assumes some things that I’m not quite sure Roissy intended to say.
Perhaps it might do for Roissy to clarify his remarks as highlighted by Dave’s last post?
Gentlemen?
O
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troll from another dimension:
No, I’d argue that my piss low negro IQ determined the the following:
shut the fuck up already with this fucking lame song and dance of yours, you fucking cunt.
The “following” in that case refers to the ability to assimilate to America political and social values and the ability to tolerate and work with white people per your perspective.
i retract my original statement. you are a lying, slanderous fuck AND have trouble with reading comprehension. a twofer!
here is what i originally wrote to which you responded directly:
nowhere in that statement is the assertion that i would “rather not have any black people in the country”. nor is it implied. what is clear to those who don’t have a beta boner for trollery and slimy shit stirring like yourself is that the peculiar circumstance of black history in america does not lend itself well to informing debate on current immigration policy.
Thus, by those factors written by you, the only thing left to conclude is that if given the choice, you view the Africans imported as slaves to at the opposite end of desirable immigrants due to their inability to assimilate, and thus, the vast majority of the black population in the United States is far away from being ideal candidates for immigration.
since blacks have been in the US for 400 years their presence here gives no support to your twisted conclusion that they serve as test cases of ideal immigrant candidates.
oh, btw, i don’t think it’s inaccurate to mention in passing, since you brought it up, that the assimilation of slavery-descended blacks in america has been a rocky road indeed, and is still careening wildly some 400 years later.
Shooting myself is such a quaint way of suicide. I’d prefer to electrocute myself with the electricity for my beloved trains.
you don’t have the balls. ironic. the one time your cowardly instincts save your fate.
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PA:
Tupac: SA argues immigration exclusively from the economics angle.
Oh, I realize that’s his argument.
But we realize of course that it all stems from his being a jewey-jewey jew-boy and whatnot. 🙂
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Tupac do you dislike jewish people?
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You know, there’s something about this “debate” that’s a bit unsettling to me, and it’s not what you would think (Comment). It’s this:
The very real problem of illegal immigration from Mexico aside, the reality is that White folks’ birthrates are falling. True, the same can be said for African Americans, particularly those considered from the middle classes. But the point is made-at present, the American White birthrate is falling off.
At some point, if those who sing the praises of White America are really serious about upholding that which they built, one would think they would turn to the very real problem of White folks not having enough babies. It’s already begun in the EU and Russia. And it’s starting to happen here.
You can blame NAMs and Muslims and SWPLs all you want, but at the end of the day, if you really bout it bout it, the only weapon you need is right between your legs-and there are plenty of Women in Palin country (Idaho, Alaska, Kansas, Arkansas, etc et al) who’ll only be too happy to oblige you. Sticking around on the coasts ain’t gonna get it if you’re really serious about maintaining a certain degree of American anglo-inspired Whiteness. Seriously.
Why can’t Johnny make Whoopee (& convince Jane to have babies)?
*That, is the Question…*
The Obsidian
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obsidian said The very real problem of illegal immigration from Mexico aside, the reality is that White folks’ birthrates are falling. True, the same can be said for African Americans, particularly those considered from the middle classes.
Cause most people realize that having children ain’t all it’s cracked up to be.
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At some point, if those who sing the praises of White America are really serious about upholding that which they built, one would think they would turn to the very real problem of White folks not having enough babies.
there is a much easier way to solve the problem of antagonistic ethnic balkanization than trying to convince a bunch of hedonists to pump out more sprogs.
one word: fence.
You can blame NAMs and Muslims and SWPLs all you want, but at the end of the day, if you really bout it bout it, the only weapon you need is right between your legs-and there are plenty of Women in Palin country (Idaho, Alaska, Kansas, Arkansas, etc et al) who’ll only be too happy to oblige you.
mutually assured procreation is not the ideal weapon.
hint hint: fence.
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Obsidian,its easy to have kids.The trick is raising them.
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Seeking Alpha: you asked me for my comment on your conservative cultural values (dislike of welfare, etc.)
It’s great that you have some conservative values. But I can’t say anything more than has already been hammered at you by me and others — values aren’t freefloating magical essences that settle where they will. They are a product of specific people, under specific circumstances. That’s all.
I wanna add something. It’s easy to abuse someone who you disagree with on the internet. But it’s also a waste of time. It’s better to have them challenge their assumptions instead. So if, in light of your anti-socialist values, you start questioning your open-borders attitudes, it’s a good thing.
I like you and I think you’re a smart young guy. And you seem to want to be persuaded. For one, you respect Roissy’s opinion. The fact that you read his blog and comment frequenlty is evidence of that.
And he calls you “traitor.” Let it sink in. “Traitor” is the worst thing that you can call a man. Worse than cuckold, beta, o m e g a, loser, wimp, or faggot. And Roissy calls you this.
Guess what — a man is the sum total of his actions and attitudes. While I don’t know how you behave in real life, your attitudes are those of a traitor. If the shoe fits… think about it.
Roissy’s style is dagger-in-the-heart. But he’s also telling you what you need to know. Let it sink in.
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you are a lying, slanderous fuck AND have trouble with reading comprehension
While I am a blatant liar and slanderous fuck in real life, I have no reason to do so here. I am only simply interpreting what you’ve written.
the peculiar circumstance of black history in america does not lend itself well to informing debate on current immigration policy
You stated that Africans are far from ideal immigration candidates for the United States. Given that the black population is sourced from Africa, it implies that if we had the choice to import the Africans as free labour, the United States should have severely restricted their entry.
that the assimilation of slavery-descended blacks in america has been a rocky road indeed, and is still careening wildly some 400 years later
This phrase states that black people have still failed to assimilate despite being in America for nearly 400 years. As we all know, failing to assimilate is generally considered a negative trait in a group.
you don’t have the balls.
I sold my balls years ago for some magic beans. I believe I got a fair deal.
ironic. the one time your cowardly instincts save your fate.
Well, that’s why I chose the electrocution method. It generally insures that there’s little chance for survival, and if that doesn’t work, being struck by a train should ensure success.
But yes, you’re right. I’m too much of a wuss to kill myself, and sadly, for some reason, people would be sad if died, and for some reason, funerals aren’t cheap. So I get to live to make a few people happy.
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Roissy, Ovid,
I don’t disagree with either of you: I actually favor both, a straight up wall, Berlin style, to keep illegals out on the Southern border, w/the US military guarding it, and yup, raising kids *is* important.
Still, the question remains gentlemen, and I notice that with all due respect, my White brothers keep dodging this:
The futue belongs to those who show up for it. The EU, Russia, and now the USA have shown, that they don’t plan to be around much longer, ie, in White terms. Muslims, Black and Brown folks in particular, don’t seem to have babies.
Its guys who look like you, who do.
Why is this? Why can’t you convince Amy or Kristen to pop out a few for the cause?
Wassup with that?
Gentlemen?
O
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roissy there is a much easier way to solve the problem of antagonistic ethnic balkanization than trying to convince a bunch of hedonists to pump out more sprogs.
one word: fence.
Roissy, people will cut or jump over the fence. If you really want to curtail illegal immigration, you must give heavy employers who give illegals jobs and snatch the property of landlords who rent to them.
Btw, the low childbirth is a real problem. The argument goes, without enough workers we won’t be able to pay for social security.
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Mu, Japan is having the same problem. They have recently allowed some Japanese from Brazil back into the country. It’s there way of testing the waters for possible larger scale immigration in the future.
Keep in mind that we must aviod having more people than we can employ illegal or not. Iran is currently facing that problem when people pumped out children following the ________.
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*still waiting for Roissy to please clarify the highlighted sections of Dave Alex’s post of Roissy’s previous remarks on the question of Africans’ ability to become Americans*
O
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The EU, Russia, and now the USA have shown, that they don’t plan to be around much longer, ie, in White terms. Muslims, Black and Brown folks in particular, don’t seem to have babies
That’s a Mark Steynian hyperbole.
Amy and Kristen (and Natasha, Agnieszka, Helga, Klaudia, Ilsa, Francesca, Isabella, Mathilde, and Ingrid) are having children with their men. Just at the moment not at the rates that welfare-gorged immigrant women are having them.
Birthrates ebb and flow cyclically according to circumstances. In one generation they are low, in the next they are high. And it’s ethnocide to snuff out a nation during a low birth cycle by flooding their land with fecund aliens.
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Who cares how long ago their ancestors came to the US? Blacks and SWPLs are bad for the US right now, and that’s all one needs to know.
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Hi Chic,
I see old habits diehard over on the other thread, huh? LOL
Anyway, yea, I notice our White brothers always go mum on this part of the discussion. And it ain’t really that hard-if they so smart, and if they all that, how come they having such a hard time keep replacement numbers? I mean, really?
See, to me, Game means more than simply getting gals into bed. Its about seeing that I’ll be here for a very long time to come. *Every* Woman I deal with I see as a potential mother to my children. And if she don’t meet that kind of criteria, I don’t wanna be bothered. Nothing’s worse than having kids with someone who just ain’t good parenting material, and no, condoms ain’t foolproof.
There is something about Western White culture that at some point, is kinda suicidal, and is something a lot of people don’t want to face head on. So, we hear a lot of stuff about all kinds of other things, and they’re important, but if the central issue is addressed, it seems to me that all the other things diminish in importance.
For example, Feminism just ain’t that big a deal to me, for real-and this is coming from a non-college educated, working class, blue collar Bruh-ALL of the Women I’ve dealth with were highly college educated, and NONE of them EVER gave me the kind of grief I’ve read about in the posts here in this venue. NONE.
So, something’s amiss here, and I’m very intrigued because the same kindof intense focus usually brought to bear by my White brothers on things that are best peripheral issues, are suddenly MIA when it comes to why they can’t convince Amy and Jane to assume the position, get preggers, pop out babies and get with the program.
I’m trying to get them to address that. Honestly. Brutally.
Wassup with that?
O
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O:
“Why is this? Why can’t you convince Amy or Kristen to pop out a few for the cause?”
You’re assuming that us white guys *want* to have children. It’s not a matter of coaxing our women to want to have children. It’s pretty simple actually. People are more focused on themselves, their leisurely activities, careers, etc to focus on children.
On the margin, people want few children, but for economic purposes, we’d like to have a replacement level of children; it’s just that each individual doesn’t want to be the one to make the commitment.
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And it ain’t really that hard-if they so smart, and if they all that, how come they having such a hard time keep replacement numbers?
My comment (two above yours) answers this.
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Chuck,
Then isn’t that a problem that WHITE FOLKS can and should solve, instead of trying to scapegoat everything under the sun instead? Having kids takes work, and it ain’t for the immature or the weak. There, I’ve said it. And the real deal is, that despite the money and “education” there’s a lot of immature and weak folk out there. Its just that, as is often the case w/such things, one can more easily rationalize or otherwise paper over these things if they have a few bucks to spread around. Poorer folk don’t have such luxuries, and theiy foiables are more easily stripped bare for the world to see.
O
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the book of troll:
I am only simply interpreting what you’ve written.
well then, the problem lies in your interpretive abilities, mr. alexander!
You stated that Africans are far from ideal immigration candidates for the United States. Given that the black population is sourced from Africa, it implies that if we had the choice to import the Africans as free labour, the United States should have severely restricted their entry.
you’re asking a hypothetical with zero tethering to reality. the US was a relatively new country during the slave trade years. it had room to grow, unlike now. but africans did not at the time have the means to show up at our borders willing to work towards citizenship. and the US did not have a program of sailing to africa to freely invite however many africans could fit on the ships to come live in america. your premise is wholly absurd. however, given all that, yes, it would have been ridiculous for the young america to accept immigrants from ethnically and racially distant foreign lands like africa and east asia *IN LARGE NUMBERS*. the result would have been a country evolved into something very different than the america we now know.
none of this supports your original slanderous lie about me. so we are back to you being a lying pig of low character.
This phrase states that black people have still failed to assimilate despite being in America for nearly 400 years. As we all know, failing to assimilate is generally considered a negative trait in a group.
they are here through no fault or action of their own. see the difference?
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ob:
Still, the question remains gentlemen, and I notice that with all due respect, my White brothers keep dodging this:
nobody’s dodging anything, ob. i’ve already answered this weak taunt of yours in previous posts.
Why is this? Why can’t you convince Amy or Kristen to pop out a few for the cause?
convincing amy to have kids is not the same as convincing amy to spread her legs.
see: contraceptives.
also see: who wants kids when there’s so much fun to be had?
Wassup with that?
condoms.
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Roissy, I think we can settle the matter if you would please clarify what I think Dave’s driving at:
Do you think people of African descent are inherent ill-equipped to become Americans, and if so/not, why?
Your response, please?
O
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DA:
this question that the immigration of a billion smart east asians would not be good for america if it is america you love so much
Yes, it would be good as it would provide a billion new future citizens of high IQ and low violence.
The future of the world should unfold as follows:
The blacks and asians should be expunged to a continent to mate for several generations.
The jews and latinos should be expunged to another country to mate for several generations.
Their high(er) IQ and *hot* offspring would then be allowed to join the rest of the world party.
Thus Spake Tupac.
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chiclet:
Roissy, people will cut or jump over the fence.
not if there are gun turrets stationed along the top.
If you really want to curtail illegal immigration, you must give heavy employers who give illegals jobs and snatch the property of landlords who rent to them.
that’s one part of the solution.
Btw, the low childbirth is a real problem. The argument goes, without enough workers we won’t be able to pay for social security.
SS is a ponzi scheme. it created a disincentive to save. let it die.
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“the great gaping hole in the middle of the libertarian philosophy (and i say this as someone who is sympathetic to many of their views) is a complete inability to recognize that all the free market principles in the world don’t amount to jack shit when up against ancient human emotional drives and broad ethnic and racial biological and cultural inheritances. ”
One famous problem with libertarianism is that it only works if everyone else is doing it. it’s at least one better than socialism, which only works if hell freezes over.
libertarianism, to me, is the most theoretically pure political philosophy, but it suffers from the free-rider problem. people and nations who don’t institute free markets etc in their economies feed on those who do.
for example, china and mexico
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why they can’t convince Amy and Jane to assume the position, get preggers, pop out babies and get with the program.
I’m trying to get them to address that. Honestly. Brutally.
Wassup with that?
Because the inflationary monetary policies necessary to support the welfare-warfare state discourage affordable family formation among the net producing classes. Birth rates among the net consuming classes thrive, of course.
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Nice try at Dun Möch, Roissy, but I won’t bite. 😉
Again, we agree on the illegal immigration problem. It’ll be taken care, one way or the other, eventually. Hopefully, I think we both can agree, in a manner we’d find suitable.
But that still leaves out the very real problem of falling birthrates, particularly amojg your demographic group. If you want to maintain traditions, it would seem one of the easiest, and in any event most important ways to do so, is to see to it that there will be those who look like you around in the future to carry on what others who look like you have done.
Now, hey look, it’s sweat off my nose, because this aint my issue. You don’t hear me sweatin’ such things on the regular. I’m just saying that for those who do, that you might want to give it a bit of thought is all.
For you Roissy, you’re clear: no kids, all fun, till the wheels fall off. Fine by me.
O
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roissy not if there are gun turrets stationed along the toppoint noted but do you think most Americans are open to having gun turrets along the fence?
SS is a ponzi scheme. it created a disincentive to save. let it die.
Yes it is. The second part of your statement is debatable.
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I agree with chuck’s 8:37 comment.
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Jews (NOT WHITES) were the masterminds of the trans-Atlantic slave trade.
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^^^ the rich benefited from it.
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ob:
Roissy, I think we can settle the matter if you would please clarify what I think Dave’s driving at:
i will be the judge of which matters to settle and which to let linger in irritating ambiguity.
Do you think people of African descent are inherent ill-equipped to become Americans, and if so/not, why?
define your terms.
american blacks whose ancestors have been here since the beginning, intertwined with the fabric of the nation from day one? the question is self-abnegating. they are as american as anything else.
or do you mean african immigrants? here we must keep in mind the maxim that in all matters immigration, NUMBERS ARE OF THE ESSENCE. so any one individual african might assimilate very well into america, especially if drawn from the worldly elite. but millions of poor africans would not assimilate well and will most likely bring their dysfunction and their lifestyle with them to their new country.
the bottom line, and one which you seem to be studiously trying to avoid or to tempt me with in its absence, is that there are large scale behavioral, temperamental, personality and belief system differences between the geographically broad races and to a lesser extent between the more narrowly defined ethnicities.
the bulk importation of some groups will augur worse outcomes for american identity as a nation than the importation of other groups. this is one of those ugly truths of humanity we just have to sack up and come to terms with before our embrace of the pretty lies dooms us all to everlasting pain and torment.
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Let the dancing begin.
Obsidian
Clearly, my comments above addressed two differing issues: immigration, and *illegal immigration*, the latter of which you had asked me about. Please correct me if I’m wrong?
I told you I don’t care about rhetorical dancing between ‘legal’ and ‘illegal’ immigrants. I don’t. At all.
So Obsidian DOES support the mass immigration of low-skill Mexicans even though this will have a severe negative effect on blacks?
H1-B’s are ‘legal’ immigrants, but they lack the rights of citizens. Other ‘legal’ temporary workers avoid income taxes. If a law was passed expanding these ‘legal’ frames to include the now ‘illegal’ Mexican immigrants, would Obsidian support the now ‘legal’ immigration of Mexican immigrants?
That should put a stop to the illegal/legal dance.
Legitimate American citizens should compete for work along the lines of legitimate free market lines. Let the best Man win.
The “Only Beta Losers Suffer” Open Borders talking point.
See everybody? They all make it. All the Open Border supporters make this talking point.
As for the unemployement status of Black Men overall, I say some of that is self inflicted, no doubt about it. Nor do I make any excuse for it.
Quit jousting at the evil racist white man. I HAVE BEEN making excuses for them, even if you won’t. It isn’t fair for them to have to suffer a constant decline in standard of living even though they are working as hard as they always did, or harder even. Capice?
Obsidian refuses to be left holding the bag for the actions of others.
Obsidian holds the bag for his support of policies that I dislike for moral and practical reasons. He also holds the bag for his wild claims that those policies haven’t gone far enough.
Haven’t gone far enough! WOO-HOO! HAVEN’T GONE FAR ENOUGH.
CAPICE?
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well then, the problem lies in your interpretive abilities, mr. alexander!
We simply have a difference of opinion in regards to the intent of your writings.
they are here through no fault or action of their own. see the difference?
Yes, and your writings seem to allude to the idea that their racial compatriots overseas are unfit for immigration. The next intellectual leap of faith would lead one to believe that if Africans in Africa are not good enough for America, then their contemporaries in America aren’t either.
In other words, I want you either admit that black people in America are a fluke that should have never been allowed to stay in the country due to their inability to assimilate, or you need to explain a valid reason as to why the black population shouldn’t be allowed to have more of their contemporaries in the country.
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chiclet:
do you think most Americans are open to having gun turrets along the fence?
you asked me what would work, not what a bunch of SWPLs would be open to.
anyhow, guns won’t be necessary. build a high enough and thick enough wall out of concrete festooned with barbed wire and broken glass and you’ll slow the border rush to a trickle.
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chic:
Tupac do you dislike jewish people?
Not at all.
Their skins are so…supple…
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“Then isn’t that a problem that WHITE FOLKS can and should solve, instead of trying to scapegoat everything under the sun instead?”
This thread is moving fast, so it’s hard for me to go back and put all the pieces of this argument’s beginning together.
It would be nice if *contributors* to society had more children rather than *takers* from society. I’ll refrain from using “white folks” here since there are plenty of contributors from other races. It speaks to the inefficiency of collective action that contributors can’t combine forces to create another baby wave.
Why are low birth replacement rates an issue in the Western world anyway? In economics, we learn that we shouldn’t like other people. other people take away from our scarce resources. that being said, we need a future generation of people to replace *stuff* and invent things. what we then have are two disparate necessities, the short run versus the long run. It’s a intertemporal problem that just can’t be solved.
So what is really important about replacement birth rates? they have to fund the Ponzi schemes of entitlement programs that Roissy alluded to a minute ago.
So, contributors should be self-induced to procreate so that they can be the crutch for the rest of society? Where’s the incentive? Humans work on incentivization. The disincentives to child-bearing are marginally greater than in decades past.
you can’t expect people to independently yet collectively decide to sacrifice their short run well-being for the long-run benefit of society.
“Raising children takes work, it ain’t for the immature or weak”
That is still up for debate at this point. If the government (read tax payers) make up that immaturity or fragility gap and pick up some of the slack of child-rearing, that workload is greatly diminished.
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Wounded,
Hmm. OK, then how do you explain the Palins? They live in arguably thee most discouragng state in the union to have kids in because everything is so expensive.
Comments?
O
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the pretty lies dooms us all to everlasting pain and torment
Pain and torment for whom? The inferior low IQ races or the superior high IQ races?
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build a high enough and thick enough wall out of concrete festooned with barbed wire and broken glass and you’ll slow the border rush to a trickle.
They have these cute things called tunnels. They can dig under your wall.
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Pain and torment for whom? The inferior low IQ races or the superior high IQ races?
To run with your IQ thing: low IQ races are well-advised to support the well being and success of the high IQ races, unless they prefer to live in savagery.
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tupac
Not at all.
Their skins are so…supple…
so not funny.
Tupac where do those feelings come from?
chuckThe disincentives to child-bearing are marginally greater than in decades past.
Please list a few.
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I boiled it down the way I see it on a past thread
There is a massive gap between what blacks bring to the table and what they take.
When everything boils down to pussy they have nothing to trade with white men.
Trade imbalance is like 90 percent whites give 10 percent blacks give.
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DA They have these cute things called tunnels. They can dig under your wall. Yup I remember reading about a large quantity of meth being found in one of those tunnels
@Roissy- fair enough
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master of the trolls:
We simply have a difference of opinion in regards to the intent of your writings.
careful, you’re starting to sound like chic. “difference of opinion” is not a euphemism for “being wrong”.
The next intellectual leap of faith would lead one to believe that if Africans in Africa are not good enough for America, then their contemporaries in America aren’t either.
if you are asking whether it would have been more moral for the US to have never instituted the slave trade to begin with, the answer is obviously yes.
otherwise, you are shitting into a fan and getting it all over yourself. to wit: chinese immigrants do very well in the US and are productive citizens on the whole, but it doesn’t follow that i believe the chinese are “good enough” to import into the US by the tens of millions.
In other words, I want you
you can want all you want, but you will be denied, because your lies and obfuscation deserve nothing but contempt.
ps drop yourself from a great height.
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To run with your IQ thing: low IQ races are well-advised to support the well being and success of the high IQ races, unless they prefer to live in savagery.
Given that under the rule of the high IQ or low IQ, the low IQ will be jealous of the high IQ and their high earning potential. Yes, the low IQ may live better under the high IQ, but they would become jealous and spiteful, and hateful toward the high IQ, hence my “pain and torment” remark.
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then how do you explain the Palins? They live in arguably thee most discouragng state in the union to have kids in because everything is so expensive.
Comments?
Labor is scarce in Alaska. You can limp out of high school, hook up with your uncle as an oil field roughneck and be drawing $20/hr in no time.
Alaska kicks ass. All those white men doing all the tough, dangerous work John McCain says white men won’t do.
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DA:
But yes, you’re right. I’m too much of a wuss to kill myself, and sadly, for some reason, people would be sad if died, and for some reason, funerals aren’t cheap. So I get to live to make a few people happy.
David, you’re very existence is an ongoing annoyance to me, not unlike a mosquito who keeps buzzing about my ear as I try to fall asleep at night.
But you don’t need to kill yourself.
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set phasers to maximum trollage:
They have these cute things called tunnels.
they have these cute things called concrete foundations ten feet into the ground, patrols, and motion detectors.
dumbass.
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Yes, the low IQ may live better under the high IQ, but they would become jealous and spiteful, and hateful toward the high IQ, hence my “pain and torment” remark.
Correct. And thus the low IQ races will use civil rights laws and universal suffrage to transfer wealth away from the high IQ races. This works until the high IQ races leave–a phenomenon known as white flight. Then the low IQ races are left stewing in their own shit, like Detroit and Africa.
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“Please list a few.”
it’s not so much a disincentivization as it is a re-ordering of priorities.
this partially stems from less societal and familial pressure on having children. this is a kind of *incentive* to not have children. you don’t have people breathing down your neck about it.
also, raising a child today, with no outside help *is* tough as O pointed out. basically people don’t want to put in the work given the expected benefits. and that’s alright with me.
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Chick, making this day even wierder, has also just said something that I simply agree with:
Roissy, people will cut or jump over the fence. If you really want to curtail illegal immigration, you must give heavy employers who give illegals jobs and snatch the property of landlords who rent to them.
Heavily fining employers and renters who ‘don’t know’ their employees/renters lack Social Security numbers is the simplest and most effective solution to ‘illegal’ aliens.
That’s why the Republicans like talking about a fence. Because the fence won’t work, and the Republican’s are all about immigration control that doesn’t work.
I prefer tactics that work.
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Correct. And thus the low IQ races will use civil rights laws and universal suffrage to transfer wealth away from the high IQ races. This works until the high IQ races leave–a phenomenon known as white flight. Then the low IQ races are left stewing in their own shit, like Detroit and Africa.
Thus, the only option left is to spare the low IQ of a miserable existence and spare the high IQ of having to take care of them, and get rid of them.
they have these cute things called concrete foundations ten feet into the ground, patrols, and motion detectors.
A bunch of Mexican labourers using crude 20th century tunneling mechanisms financed with drug cartel money could dig below 10ft, and if the portals on each side are covered up with large buildings, detection would be very difficult, especially in rural areas with few dwellings to underpin.
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Thus, the only option left is to spare the low IQ of a miserable existence and spare the high IQ of having to take care of them, and get rid of them.
That’s not the only option. Civil rights laws, universal suffrage, and the welfare state are devolutionary. Scrap them and we may be able to turn the trend around.
Another option is the one followed by much of the 90+ percentile blacks of whom you are a part: stick with your own. That’s what produced Eric Holder and Condoleeza Rice. There’s also the Earl Woods/Tiger Woods/Clarence Thomas option: breed yourself lighter.
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Wounded,
Good point. I guess I’m having a problem with the notion that, the reason why the White birthrate is falling is because White folk get discouraged by the amount of taxes they pay to support NAM babies. I just don’t think individual White folks having fun on the coastal cities are thinking like that in the main.
I think the truth lies closer to what Roissy’s always said about himself: that he simply wants to get all he can, and can all he get. No strings, no muss, no fuss. Of course, I disagree w/his overall trajectory, but I applaud his intellectual honesty. Can’t knock him one little bit.
And let’s be clear: raising a Palin sized family is a heck of a lot easier in New Jersey than in Alaska. So methinks the Roissy Factor is more at work than we may be willing to admit.
O
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“difference of opinion” is not a euphemism for “being wrong”.
Fair enough. I think I’m right about my interpretation and you’re backpeddling to cover up.
if you are asking whether it would have been more moral for the US to have never instituted the slave trade to begin with
The question isn’t in regards to the morality of importing slaves.
you can want all you want, but you will be denied, because your lies and obfuscation deserve nothing but contempt.
For someone who feels that they’re right, you’re unwilling to deliver that blow to shut me up or at minimum, prove your point.
ps drop yourself from a great height.
I refuse to give you that satisfaction.
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@wounded animal-Tiger Woods is as brown as I am and Clerance Thomas is dark skinned. So making our selves lighter is not the anwser.
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That’s why the Republicans like talking about a fence. Because the fence won’t work, and the Republican’s are all about immigration control that doesn’t work.
i agree that the repubs don’t want immigration control to work.
but a fence will work if done right. see: berlin wall.
form of… an internet troll:
A bunch of Mexican labourers using crude 20th century tunneling mechanisms financed with drug cartel money could dig below 10ft, and if the portals on each side are covered up with large buildings, detection would be very difficult, especially in rural areas with few dwellings to underpin.
there will be breaches in any security system, but there’s no denying that a wall will stop a hell of a lot more border jumpers than no wall at all. what is your logical fallacy called again…? false dilemma?
I think I’m right about my interpretation and you’re backpeddling to cover up.
your thinking module is on the fritz.
The question isn’t in regards to the morality of importing slaves.
then you should learn to phrase your questions more pertinently.
For someone who feels that they’re right, you’re unwilling to deliver that blow to shut me up or at minimum, prove your point.
you’re just pissed that i’m not repeating the ego-massaging fantasy roissy playback loop you’ve got running in your head like a retarded hamster on red bull.
and that i’ve nailed you dead to rights.
ps drop yourself from a great height.
I refuse to give you that satisfaction.
suddenly you change your tune from offering self-immolating alternatives to refusing to give me satisfaction?
what happened, did i shake you out of your control-alt-beta DA program?
heh.
ps play in interstate traffic.
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Chic,
Then breed yourselves darker. Let me know how that works out.
There are high percentile negroes and mulattos. They give their spawn a leg up–like the Woodses and like Clarence Thomas–by breeding lighter.
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Chic comes from a place where the woman would not consider themselves black in ethiopia there is the pretty lie on that one. She goes along with black in us because black is helpfull to be there. Most places in the rest of the world would consider it an insult if they were brown and were considered black.
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Obsidian:
Its just that, as is often the case w/such things, one can more easily rationalize or otherwise paper over these things if they have a few bucks to spread around. Poorer folk don’t have such luxuries, and theiy foiables are more easily stripped bare for the world to see.
Wise words, O.
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That’s not the only option.
That is the only option. The half-assed option that you list doesn’t help them at all and leaves a third rate existence as they’re still poor and miserable compared to the high IQ.
Civil rights laws
You need civil rights laws to make use of the IQ of the handful of high IQ members of non-white races. Without civil rights laws, one is free to discriminate as they please against non-whites or some white ethnic groups.
stick with your own. That’s what produced Eric Holder and Condoleeza Rice
Some have argued that Eric Holder is simply the legacy of Caribbean immigrants who simply mated with other mulatto to keep out light skin. Condoleeze Rice has supported Repubicans, so she isn’t a good example of the “stick with your own” mantra as most blacks are Democrats. Given the small number of black people with high IQ per the bell curve, it makes sense for smart black people to simply associate with white people instead of trying to create little mini-communities of high IQ black people.
There’s also the Earl Woods/Tiger Woods/Clarence Thomas option: breed yourself lighter.
Of course, but if it’s open knowledge that blacks are generally low IQ, who would be stupid enough to waste their future progeny on black genes? If you’re black, why would you want to waste your high IQ on low IQ whites that will ruin your descendants?
Besides, some race realists tend to freak out about that, as they view it as the loss of white genes to black genes. Of course, if you’re willing to wait three generations and you’re able to force your children to marry white, your future progeny may be able to pass as full blown white, and you can point to your successful high IQ elite white children if you’re lucky.
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Again: I don’t want to put any words in Roissy’s mouth here. But I can see how Dave or for that matter, anyone else could read what Roissy wrote and come away w/the thinking that the further you go out from the “core groups” that in one way or another made up America, the less likely they are to have what it takes inherently, to “make it” as Americans. In just about every way, on its face, its hard to get further from such groups than Africans.
And, we have to keep in mind, that Africans were barred from any kind of participation in any real way, in the American enterprise. This was enshrined in law, and by fiat. The Founding Fathers, many of them, firmly held to these views.
So, I don’t think it unfair or unreasonable to simply ask Roissy, flatout-does he think that those of African background, are inherently less equipped to become Americans, and if so, why?
Just trying to get clarity here.
Thanks.
O
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ou need civil rights laws to make use of the IQ of the handful of high IQ members of non-white races.
No you don’t. Business will bid for their services.
Without civil rights laws, one is free to discriminate as they please against non-whites or some white ethnic groups.
So fucking what? They can segregate and enjoy comparative advantage. The NFL, for example, exercises a bias for black tailbacks and white offensive linemen. The result is a superior product and higher salaries for both black and white NFL players.
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ob:
So, I don’t think it unfair or unreasonable to simply ask Roissy, flatout-does he think that those of African background, are inherently less equipped to become Americans, and if so, why?
i answered your question in a previous comment. and in other comments as well.
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I think your actually right dave should probably get rid of all the blacks.
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So, I don’t think it unfair or unreasonable to simply ask Roissy, flatout-does he think that those of African background, are inherently less equipped to become Americans, and if so, why?
America was founded by comparatively higher average IQ Anglo-Saxons. The institutions they set up are incompatible with low average IQ’s of any race. Blacks happen to have the lowest average IQ of any race, so when you turn the institutions over to them, as we’ve done with most major urban centers, you end up with a less American and more African milieu. Detroit, Atlanta, New Orleans, etc.
This is the sad paradox of America. White people can move and move, and blacks will endlessly trail after them, because the only way they can enjoy higher living standards is through the affirmative action and net production of higher IQ whites.
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On top of that all the whites too. They are both a poison on the world.
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berlin wall.
Remember, it was the escape from a highly secure urban area into another highly secure urban area that was willing to accept them. Securing the equipment was difficult, and digging would have been a pain under the buildings near the Wall. In contrast, we’re dealing with Mexico’s easily bribed police, well-financed drug cartels that have entered the human smuggling business, and rural, sparsely populated areas on both sides.
you’re just pissed
Surprisingly, no, I’m not upset yet like the bitter betas, but somehow, I do enjoy the challenge and mental exercise. I’m simply waiting for an answer to my question from earlier in regards to the desirability of our black population. If you’re going to evade it, at least do it in a way that’s commensurate with your brilliant verbal skills.
but there’s no denying that a wall will stop a hell of a lot more border jumpers than no wall at all
Will a fence reduce inflows of immigration, yes. Will smugglers turn to alternative routes? Yes. Will the problem go away, no.
ps play in interstate traffic.
I’d rather see you play in it first.
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O:
“And let’s be clear: raising a Palin sized family is a heck of a lot easier in New Jersey than in Alaska.”
Sorry to backtrack, but I am not following you here, Ob. Being a jersey boy myself, I know that my pops pays about a metric shitload of property taxes each year for his four bedroom colonial. His benefits have been a great public school system for me and my sister, a concentration of his field of work (engineering), and city access from a suburban area. He is an “upper middle class” worker, surely in the top 10% of Americans… also very fiscally responsible, which requires its own discipline. If not for these qualifications, my NJ upbringing would have been much more ‘easy’ in another state.
So an ‘average’ family should surely live more fluidly in a cheaper, rural state, no? If you are angling toward the race issue, I think a state like Alaska is a little more phenotypically WASPish than NJ, despite a high concentration of whites in NJ’s individual upper class communities/townships. The prizes are higher with raising your family in a suburban metropolis, but the buy-in also reflects that.
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Roissy,
OK, just scrolled back a bit and found your response. Thanks for clarifying.
From what you’ve written, the issue is in the numbers, right? And I agree, “mass” immigration isn’t a god idea because you have to allow time for just about any group to assimilate. Agreed, I think.
I think the case of African Americans, as you note, makes a compelling case that yes, Africans can become Americans, under controlled conditions, ie, immigration controls. Of course that wasn’t the intention w/Slavery but it kinda worked out that way.
I guess I’m having problems with the idea that we’re being inundated w/African immigrants when that really isn’t the case. That is certainly true for some countries in Europe. But insofar as I know, not here.
At any rate, again, thanks for clarifying. Much appreciated.
O
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In contrast, we’re dealing with Mexico’s easily bribed police, well-financed drug cartels that have entered the human smuggling business, and rural, sparsely populated areas on both sides.
Rural, sparsely populated areas are of no consequence. Immigrants who stray into such areas die of thirst or heat stroke.
Israel is surrounded on three sides by well-financed and heavily armed Arabs and yet it manages to maintain an ethnic nation-state. The US’s only problem is a lack of clarity and will.
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Cannon,
Good point. I was speaking in terms of AK’s high cost of living in comparison to NJ, among other things. The latter does indeed have monstrous taxatipn rates. But I think, my point still stands, especially given weather conditions, etc. All taken together I mean.
Am I making sense here?
O
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No you don’t. Business will bid for their services.
So why didn’t high ranking firms in the pre-civil rights era employ high ranking blacks in their organizations?
So fucking what? They can segregate and enjoy comparative advantage.
Your example takes advantage of athletic traits which are only held with a small fraction the population that’s possibly even smaller than the high IQ population. Again, the problem is that there is nothing from preventing irrational racism from stating that firms may simply not want ANY non-white employees at all, and would prefer to employ potentially weaker white employees over blacks.
Of course, I fail to see the the magical comparative advantage that black people have with low IQ…
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DA:
Given that under the rule of the high IQ or low IQ, the low IQ will be jealous of the high IQ and their high earning potential. Yes, the low IQ may live better under the high IQ, but they would become jealous and spiteful, and hateful toward the high IQ, hence my “pain and torment” remark.
Then they need to get over themselves and be grateful for the high(er) IQs’ beneficence.
We can’t all be masters of the universe, son.
“Everything is unequal to everything else. Therefore, all things are in harmony.” – C.S.H.
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apocalypse troll:
Remember, it was the escape from a highly secure urban area into another highly secure urban area that was willing to accept them. Securing the equipment was difficult, and digging would have been a pain under the buildings near the Wall.
the guns helped.
In contrast, we’re dealing with Mexico’s easily bribed police, well-financed drug cartels that have entered the human smuggling business, and rural, sparsely populated areas on both sides.
if the berlin wall isn’t to your liking, try the great wall of china. or the israeli wall. or fuck, the entire iron curtain for that matter. not too many people got out through those long eastern european borders into western europe.
i think you get the picture. walls work where there’s a will.
Surprisingly, no, I’m not upset yet like the bitter betas,
i think you are. you just have invested too much of your schtick into seeming like a beta happily resigned to his misery to ever admit your bitterness.
I’m simply waiting for an answer to my question from earlier in regards to the desirability of our black population.
no you’re not. you’re waiting for me to parrot the cheesy script you’ve got running through your mind.
for my real answer and not the fake one in your head, try reading my previous comments for comprehension.
If you’re going to evade it,
keep telling yourself that, troll.
I’d rather see you play in it first.
i’m getting to you.
excellent.
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Tupac,
The problem w/your view is that it assumes that the “masters” will indeed be benevolent. They may be, then, they may not. If the past few years have shown us anything, its that being the best and brightest doesn’t give one a leg up in the do right department. Hubris runs high in such places, coupled with the real ability to wreak havoc on a global scale. Which in many ways, has happened.
O
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Israel is surrounded on three sides by well-financed and heavily armed Arabs and yet it manages to maintain an ethnic nation-state.
That’s because Israel has basically promised to beat the shit out of an Arab state that attacks. Mind you, while there are tunnels under the Gaza-Egypt border to smuggle weapons for Hamas, I suspect the main reason for the lack of tunnels for smuggling from Arab states or Palestinian controlled areas is due to a lack of Israelis willing to aid in the tunnel construction process. In contrast, you will find Americans who are willing to set up false buildings for as staging sites for the tunnel portal in exchange for some money upfront and a cut of the money made by smugglers.
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What Tupac said. And there is plenty of intra-racial discrimination as well. Be a man about it.
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DA:
Of course, but if it’s open knowledge that blacks are generally low IQ, who would be stupid enough to waste their future progeny on black genes? If you’re black, why would you want to waste your high IQ on low IQ whites that will ruin your descendants?
Low T races like Asians could benefit from some extra oomph in their offspring.
I reiterate my Asian-Black, Jew-Latino “Solution”
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@David Alexander
You’re missing the point that a robust immigration enforcement system would be composed of multiple reinforcing components. For example:
– clearing the border for 100-200 meters
– massive fence, motion sensors, air sensors, machine guns and a willingness to use them, etc
– deploying 25-50,000 militarized troops along the border
– periodic interior enforcement (e.g. checks everytime pulled over by the cops or when wanting to do ANY official business for non-citizens)
– robust national IDs (e.g. multiple biometric markers)
– serious penalties for corrupt employers (5+ years in jail and loss of most personal assets)
– an ascending set of penalties for illegal aliens (e.g. 3 months in a tent prison camp for a first offense and a 5 year moratorium on immigration and steeper penalties for future offenses
– no automatic family chain migration
– abandoning the futile war on drugs by legalizing everything to remove tens of billions of dollars from criminal syndicates
– immigration chosen on American nation needs
– massively reduced immigration for a few decades
One result of this system would be that VERY FEW people would get through. e.g. instead of 2 million plus/year perhaps 10-50,000 would get through via corruption.
That would be a reasonable trade off
Instead of spending tens of thousands of American deaths and trillions spent fighting for Israel we might actually get something useful out of our military (I’m including are many civilian deaths, like Bob Clark, the director of Porky’s and A Christmas Story who was killed by a Mexican illegal alien).
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Naa tupac asians don’t need any help at all. They already have access to good pussy.
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Scotch fiend you can currently monitor the whole southern border with a 100 people. No 25k soldiers needed.
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Roissy–
Did you ever meet Suicide Blond in person? Seems to me you two would almost have to have.
She’s a year or three or something younger than you I’d estimate. You’ve both been in the higher voltage DC dating scene for years. I know she commented her for a few months in the last part of 2007.
She’s hot. 8 kind of hot probably. Maybe 9 and maybe likely 9 when a bit younger. I’ve seen pics I’m sure are her. Might be old ones, but doesn’t seem like the Vegas one likely was. She’s also tons of fun and entertaining and witty, or anyway is on her blog. And dresses and acts like an absolute outrageous rocks and roll fun sex kitten. And nice and very flirty to her commenters. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t want alphas, between the sheets wize, of course.
My guess is she’s a PR flack for the DC and other art and maybe music scene. If she has a boss at this stage it’s just barely and not really.
Yeah falling deeply in love with her wouldn’t be good, but she also doesn’t seem to much encourage that. We can speculate what her life will be like a 40, but right now she’s pretty engaging. If maybe a too much in charge in a feminine, flirty, smart, but I’m calling the shots for me, for a lot of alphas. On the other hand she seems easy to convince to fly off to the wherever at a moments notice if she digs you.
Anyways, she’s seeming like a fun if hardly young and relatively innocent DC girl to me that you just HAVE to have run into.
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In contrast, you will find Americans who are willing to set up false buildings for as staging sites for the tunnel portal in exchange for some money upfront and a cut of the money made by smugglers.
That is what happens when you replace an ethnic nation-state with a liberal democratic market-state. Liberal democratic market-states are congenitally incapable of defending their existence.
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PS. Those immigration enforcement ideas are an example of a system that could be implemented that would work effectively and would probably easily be paid for with all the money we’re currently wasting by subsidizing illegals via education, welfare, health care, etc
Of course we have a traitorous set of elites that run this country, so the LAST thing they want to do is protect our borders when they think they can morph our country in to Brazil while locking themselves and their descendants in as a new global aristocracy.
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I wanted to respond to Comments’ remarks:
Good point on the H1B issue. Will need to mull it over and get back to you on that one.
I am not for mass, uncontrolled, unlimited immigration, for much the same reasons Roissy noted in his reply to me; there must be time between waves to assimilate groups properly. Nor am I against using a screening process to select for those who have the best chance of making it in America. Now I haven’t thought this through completely, I freely concede that. But it doesn’t seem unfair to me to attempt to control the degree and extent to which we allow newcomers into our borders.
As for Black Men, the reality is that America is a competitive marketplace, and that should not change for Black Men. They must compete just like everyone else. The trick is, they should compete on a level playing field, and this is where the current illegal issue comes in because by definition they make the field uneven by being able to do the same work for much reduced prices. This is unfair to rightful and lawful American citizens.
Hope this clarifies my position, and again, thanks for the H1B point.
O
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@gunslingergregi
Could you elaborate the the 25 dudes guarding the border effectively?
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O:
I don’t think weather constitutes an easier path to a standard of living. I know this wasn’t really your talking point; I just needed to defend jersey like a good hometown boy should. Exploring your train of thought, if it is easier to raise a family in a mild climate, why were there EVER any eskimoes?
To touch on your open challenge to account for dwindling white birthrates:
The first point I would make is to consider your forum. This is the blog of a hedonist, who you have established you respect for his blunt honesty and Machiavellian motives. Consider the audience you are appealing to: everyone here empathizes with Roissy to an extent, regardless of race, gender, or culture. Your question is sort of like asking a right-leaning libertarian why he didn’t vote last November (“because it didn’t make a difference!”). Snarky answer, but the act of voting takes all of 30 minutes. Raising a child is a lifetime of sacrifice/dedication, not only lifestyle-wise but financially, with all the added implications of so much less disposable income for the foreseeable future. Consider the return on investment – a drop in the bucket, one more phenotype to pay taxes to the open-handed. That’s a shitty investment for a rational white person.
The best way to encourage more ‘white breeding’ would be a series of favorable constitutional amendments and tax breaks imposed by the remaining white elite powerholders. The SWPL and feministing majority, even just within whites, makes this impossible. If global warming were a real planetary concern, I would still rock a diesel-fuel white freightliner if I enjoyed driving it and reaped some pimp status from it. What is my motivation to protect my genus 500 years into the future? (none)
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Then they need to get over themselves and be grateful for the high(er) IQs’ beneficence.
Why be the whipping post of the high IQ and their superiority when I can maintain more dignity in death?
the guns helped.
The Stasi and other Eastern European secret police forces made it impossible to simply hop a fence or to secure the construction materials and men needed to build a tunnel into the West. While a wall will make it difficult to hop a fence, the Mexican police forces aren’t going to shoot up guys building a tunnel, especially if it’s designed, built, operated, and maintained by drug cartels who will either bribe the police or attack those who bother.
I described some of the conditions of the Israeli wall earlier.
i think you are. you just have invested too much of your schtick into seeming like a beta happily resigned to his misery to ever admit your bitterness.
I’ll go into this briefly. I am not bitter toward alphas for having the ability to attract women, nor am I bitter at women for liking beta males. It’s just simply depressing to admit that the average beta male really doesn’t have a chance, but I can’t blame women for liking alpha males. Being bitter is no better than the sexless ugly females who chastize men for liking hot, sexual women. I just can’t hate you for being able to do better than me in securing sex, nor can I hate women for finding you to be attractive than me. The hate is not just wrong, but rather pointless in the grand scheme of things.
you’re waiting for me to parrot the cheesy script you’ve got running through your mind.
You’re right since I’m waiting for you to say that you think black people are inferior, hence why the descents are slaves are “flukes” and why we shouldn’t import them in large numbers. It’s probably foolish to expect an answer based on that line of reasoning since you’re smart enough to avert the question or simply come up with an answer that’s palatable to everybody.
Your answer of “we can let a few in over a long period of time” isn’t the exact answer I was looking for, but it leans toward that direction.
keep telling yourself that, troll.
Now, now, you know that I’m more fun than a troll. You’re having fun too.
i’m getting to you.
excellent.
I think you’ll have to try harder next time. 🙂
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And there is plenty of intra-racial discrimination as well. Be a man about it.
I am being a man about this by pointing out this intra and inter-racial discrimination is wrong.
Low T races like Asians could benefit from some extra oomph in their offspring.
T would ruin them by making them prone to impulsive and stupid decisions and crime.
I reiterate my Asian-Black, Jew-Latino “Solution”
While my brother would love that decision due to his taste in Asian women, most Asian women fail to meet my tastes and fetishes. Admittedly, why not Jew-Black and Asian-Latino?
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David Alexander
Who cares what you want DA?
You’ve endless proved that you’re completely unworthy.
You have a house slave mentality, of a particularly self denigrating and non ambitious type.
You basically hope, and expect, to receive welfare of one type or another from altruistic whites — who are a lot more altruistic (often really excessively so) than any other major racial group.
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After a long night of drinking, the desire to argue has been beaten out of me.
PA:
And he calls you “traitor.” Let it sink in. “Traitor” is the worst thing that you can call a man. Worse than cuckold, beta, o m e g a, loser, wimp, or faggot. And Roissy calls you this.
My final parting thought before I have to get up in six hours for work:
Who is the traitor? Me, who philosophically believes in open borders, but votes Republican for low taxes and strong defense, works long hours so he can start a family young and produce many new Americans for the next generation… or Roissy, who philosophically believes in closed borders, but follows a lifestyle that – if practiced by everyone – would accelerate this country’s downward spiral.
Thanks to me, God willing, there will be six new conservatives in this country before I die. I’m comfortable with that legacy, whether or not everyone agrees with the nuances of my personal philosophy.
Thanks for the kind words PA. Night all.
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Cannon,
I think our positions are converging on one central point, that for at least a segment of what I’ll call the Roissy Demographic-the say, mid 20s to mid 30s aged White Men & Women-the bottomline is they simply don’t want to be bothered with raising kids and all that. And while I can certainly accept that some of what has been said is a contributing factor, I think just as strong a pull is simply having fun till the wheels fall off. Cool, I can dig it.
O
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Heck of a parting shot, Seeking Alpha. Certainly gives me something to think about.
Sweet dreams.
O
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Who cares what you want DA?
I care for what I want. I suspect that you do the same for yourself, Doug.
You basically hope, and expect, to receive welfare of one type or another from altruistic whites
You mean a magical cash benefit for doing nothing? I have no need for that, and it defeats the entire purpose of going to school. Besides, there’s no status in being a welfare recipient, and it pays much to little to support a comfortable lifestyle.
You have a house slave mentality, of a particularly self denigrating and non ambitious type.
I’m non-ambitious because I’m realistic and aware of my own limits, and I’d prefer to avoid Don Quixote style quests for glory. I just want to finish school and get a decent white collar job to support myself. If I have kids, I’ll encourage their dreams and work my ass off to support them so they can do it.
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“””””””””””ScotchFiend
@gunslingergregi
Could you elaborate the the 25 dudes guarding the border effectively?””””””””””””””””
I said 100 could guard the border and keep the 25k you predicted from having to. Remote control guns along border. On an apache .223 platform.
Really anyway if we wanted to stop illegal immigration how easy would it be. If the mexicans really are cleansing black people as people are saying well then now you know why they are allowed in. I can fuck a mexican chick I am pretty sure no problem. So then they would also be able to trade with white man for something. Plus they are catholic.
Just put a chip on all us citizens. Anybody else is an illegal. In order to go shopping or get a job, or go to a concert or go to church or go to the movies or go to the mall. every single person is scanned. If the scan comes up negative they are then reported arrested and deported. Sure it gives them the mark of the beast but so do cell phones.
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Great work, SA. Before today, I had you pegged for an early-40’s WASPish, longstanding member of a Greenwich hedge fund, family man. I am down with all randroids, not to give you such a label. I get down with Rand and get down with roids. Everyone (EVERYONE) here is chasing an impossible ideal. The winners of the internet arguments are the ones who acquiesce that they exploit a flawed system. Personally, when I left ‘God’, John Galt was my ‘Old Testament’ “god” and Howard Roark was my ‘Jesus.’ A veritable Old Testament and New Testament!
To be fulfilled, I answer to the same being Howard Roark answered to: himself. Sacrificing a seemingly key component of my religious grouping does not register with me.
I used to aspire to Randian ambiguity; a la H.G. Wells’ endgame. I have felt better about myself since I’ve become more selfish.
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People are scared of the mark of the beast. In reality these chips will also insure a known location of every person at every time in the country. Which could just be another irony of life. It could cause allllllllll crime to be solved. Which in turn will waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy reduce baaaaaaddddddddd government. Which will also reduce all of the baaaaaaaadddddddddddd people which will allow us all to live in a situation where we do in fact trust our neighbor because we can trust in a higher power than ourselves on this earth. We can trust that allllll crime will be solved. We can trust that anyone who does us harm willllllll be caught. Which in turn willllll allow us to have what passes for utopia on earth. Which will maybe allow us to achieve what passes for normal in a homogeneus population.
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I guess I should read 1984 ?
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Seeking Alpha is arguing for Open Borders from Australia !!
Libertarian philosophers Karl Popper and Hayek had the luxury of arguing for an Open Society while living in New Zealand during ww2.
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lol chic, you sure are a moron.
Obama pays lip service to “not blaming whites” for everything.
Then he works for ACORN, who blame whites for everything; befriends and has leaders who blame whites for everything; and works for programs that are based on blaming whites for everything.
You ignorant little thing. Actions > words.
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lol chic, you sure are a moron.
Obama pays lip service to “not blaming whites” for everything.
Then he works for ACORN, who blame whites for everything; befriends and has leaders who blame whites for everything; and works for programs that are based on blaming whites for everything.
You ignorant little thing. Actions > words.
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No max he said if it got to bad because of the open borders he would move to Australia lol
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gregi:
‘mark of the beast’ status: you will enjoy the movie “Brotherhood of the Wolf”. the male-female dynamic is quite blatant. an examle against me hating why us why i no longer blanket-hate the French!”f
seriously, let’s JUST play trance music… not enjoy it.
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Actually it was wherever the money went. Sidney was one of main choices.
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Well it is interesting imagine being able to solve all crime. Location would be a big part of that. So really marking us all with some chip action would make it pretty easy to identify the perpetrators of a good chunk of the crime. Plus place people at location for like why is the ceo of citi meeting with this congressman in a dark alley. Interesting.
Will have to check the movie.
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Gunny
Yes Gunny it’s mandatory. Together with Brave New World.
Lots of people will tell you that lots of things are, but these two really are. They’re all about deconstructing Utopian leftist dictatorships, of two radically different types. Both were written by leftists starting to become a lot disillusioned — i.e by real truth seeking realists.
Deconstructing in an every day sense, not some head up your ass female grad student Foucault sense of the last few decades.
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Or should I write the book before I read it. Technology can be beneficial before we get to the point of not having to work though we should probably get to the point of solving all crime. Even in not having to work there of course will still be a hierarchy as there will always be a hierarchy. ][-][*
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Seeking Alpha, the traitorous internationalist Jewish open-borders fanatic, reveals himself when he says: “Me, who philosophically believes in open borders”
Fucking Jew traitor.
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Not cheating as in bitch boy gay behind the back style but fucking other woman in truthfull man in front of your face because I am man and my word is my bond style. When I say I love you its true When I say forever till we die it is true because I am a man and can make it true.
I know what you meant, Gunslinger, but the fact is that woman’s nature won’t allow her to completely, 100% stay committed to a man who isn’t seen to be likewise.
A man who plays around on her, whether with her permission or not is proving that he’s doesn’t value her emotional investment.
Actions speak louder than words, and she will put up with it, as I said, only as long as she keeps hoping that he’ll eventually choose to settle with (for?) her alone.
You can say forever, and mean it, but as long as you keep playing around, she’ll come to see that as being more important than her.
Women run more on feelings than reason, as we all know, and in the end, it doesn’t matter how often he comes home – he’s going out without her and coming home smelling like someone else.
That’s a great way to show you love someone and value her as a sexual being as well as for her mind and personality.
This is why we have such a problem between the sexes – we might want the same things, but we’re coming from different directions and at times there doesn’t appear to be any intersection.
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The US’s only problem is a lack of clarity and will.
Nailed it.
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I am being a man about this by pointing out this intra and inter-racial discrimination is wrong.
Nothing wrong with preferring your own to the Other. We’ve done it since we climbed out of the trees.
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@ You Know I’m Right – I’ve been saying that all along, idiot. You’re a real tough guy on the Internet, huh? Dirty Harry would be proud.
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Seeking Alpha is arguing for Open Borders from Australia !!
Max, I live in America.
_____________
Re Rand: her books are long and winded. Boring, really. I never both finishing Atlas Shrugged when I read it. Her philosophy is also extreme, in a bad way. Her sex scenes are cringe worthy. Finally, her plot isn’t realistic.
Her only redeeming quality is that she helps a generation of young men who read her understand the inherent immorality in liberalism. She first puts words to that gnawing sense that something is wrong. That at the end of the day, the state points a gun at your head and demands your money to give to someone else.
Like your first fuck, for all her faults, no matter how much of a crazy bitch she was, she was still your first.
For all those who throw out rand-roid… it is you who is likely a droid. It is you who doesn’t question his prejudices, his preconceptions, or his own world view. I constantly seek to expand my understanding – of all things – hence the handle.
Hope that clarifies things for those here with an open mind. To the rest – let the hate come. I didn’t have coffee this morning and nothing wakes you up like a good dose of haters.
______________________
Great work, SA. Before today, I had you pegged for an early-40’s WASPish, longstanding member of a Greenwich hedge fund, family man.
23, half Catholic (Irish, German) half Jewish (Russian) background, atheist, relatively-new member of a Greenwich hedge fund, hope-to-one-day-be family man.
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Nilk,
Nice to meet you. I’ve read your reply to gunslinger, and I have to respectfully disagree w/your comments. If anything history has shown us quite clearly, that not only will Women be more than willing to “share” the Right Man, but more often than not, will NOT be so interested in a Man who doesn’t seem to have any other options.
In other words, no Woman wants a Man no other Woman doesn’t want.
In Game Theory, this is known as Pre-Selection; a Man is seen as more valuable along a host of indices in the minds and eyes of Women if he is known to be desired by other Women, especially if said Women are themselves seen by other Men as sexually desirable, and so on. Women are intensely socially sensitive in ways that most Men simply are not.
Which leads me to my next point: its been my direct experience, and years of observation, that the vast majority of Women intuitively know and understand, that if they have an Alpha Male as a mate, chances are very high she’s not the only one he has. That’s not the issue-the issue, as you rightly noted above, is said AM comin back home smelling of the other Woman. This is problematic because such things can spread to said Woman’s social circle, which is again, something highly valued by Women-their kids, their neighbors, girlfriends and immediate family members, etc. One of the first things guys lear about Game is the extreme importance of Discretion when it comes to Women-most have stronger, deeper sexual impulses and desires than many Men walking aroun, but they don’t want it to be known to the world at large. If a Man can keep his mouth shut and is able to cover his ass, he stands to get more ass than a toilet seat, from the Women one would least suspect.
A Woman will look the other way if her Man, who again is highly valued socially and otherwise mind you, has another or even several Women, *provided he does several things*:
He doesn’t dis her by being careless in his extracurricular activities
Doesn’t embarass her or her children w/his dalliances
Is highly selective of the other Women he gets with
And always takes care of home, *first*
A Good Woman understands that a “Type A” kind of Man almost always has a strong sexual drive that she will find either unable or just plain uninterested in satiating fully. These kinds of understandings have been with us for thousands of years, at least hundreds. It makes no sense whatsoever to attempt to argue the right or wrong of it, because it won’t stop. Men like and may even need, sexual variety. And Women like and may even need, a Man who has the stamp of approval of other Women.
There’s more to this, and I would recommend you checkout writings such as the Mystery Method, as well as some of Roissy’s archives right here in this venues that addresses this and related points.
O
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“I would recommend you checkout writings such as the Mystery Method”
I have a 50 page pdf of MM on my hard drive.I dont know if its an abridged version.Does 50 pages sound too short?
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Ovid,
Sorry, but I’m not able to give you an answet as I’ve not read the version you have. I was speaking to the actual paper book the Mystery Method.
O
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I think the U.S. would be fine if we just sterilized everyone within our borders with an I.Q. below 100 AND quickly executed those guilty of serious violent crimes (including those like armed robbery where only the threat of violence is used).
This might even not take long to be effective as I can imagine some illegal aliens might leave the country rather than be sterilized.
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“””””””””‘Nilk,
I know what you meant, Gunslinger, but the fact is that woman’s nature won’t allow her to completely, 100% stay committed to a man who isn’t seen to be likewise. “””””
Other side to that coin is we both know that a man committing to only one woman does not mean that she will never cheat or leave herself.
“””””””Nilk,
Women run more on feelings than reason, as we all know, and in the end, it doesn’t matter how often he comes home – he’s going out without her and coming home smelling like someone else. “”””””””
It doesn’t have to be without her.
“””””””””””Nilk,
This is why we have such a problem between the sexes – we might want the same things, but we’re coming from different directions and at times there doesn’t appear to be any intersection.””””””””””””‘
I think the media plays a big role in this in fucking up womans natural tendancies to be woman. Also education fucks them up as well and gives a false sense of superiority. I could not find a woman to start a business in the states from the ones I talked with even though it could net 1000 a day. Education ain’t shit compared to doing something.
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Tunnels not a problem as long as the border guards are willing to kill by collapsing the tunnels, and don’t need access to anything in them, to seize contraband, for example.
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DA,
Southern Israel is heavily Arab, and there is NO cooperative tunnel-building from the Israeli side, because interrogations of security prisoners often resemble a meeting with Mr. Blonde from _Reservoir Dogs_. Tunnel-building is treated as a purely military problem, and mainly solved through the destruction of the tunnel if it is unreachable by infantry. Weapons-smuggling is more of a law-enforcement issue, and is handled as such.
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Obsidian and Gunslinger,
Between 22-27 I lived with an alpha in the set up you’re talking about.
While he was most definitely a bad boy, and 12 years older, and I was the Chosen One, I guess you could say, it didn’t work. And I looked after him well.
LOL, Gunslinger – he had a small business and I even looked after that when he had to go overseas. Successfully!
You’re right about other women’s perceptions and actions. There was a lot of sniping about him, and it did get rough at times if I didn’t perform to a high standard. By rough, yes, it got physical at times.
It’s remarkable what a woman will put up with when she hears those 3 words occasionally.
In any case, eventually, you get tired of comparing yourself to other women, to wondering if he’s going to stay home for a change, the insecurity.
And the jealousy. That eats you up, no matter how much you convince yourself otherwise.
It was only when I said I was leaving that he finally wanted to marry me.
Heh. As they say, though, revenge is a dish best served cold.
It took 7 years, but I got a phone call from him one day telling me how he’d never met anyone who’d come close to the standards I set.
This from a guy who refused to get involved with anyone less than an 8. Anything below was strictly an empty out.
🙂 Needless to say, I learned a hell of a lot about men and women, and for that I’ll be eternally grateful.
The damage done, however, is something that has echoed down the ages and manifests in different ways. I’d never recommend a polygamous, or “open” relationship because of the unintended fall out.
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622 comments? Christ almighty, do any of you people have a life??!!
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Within the next year or so hopefully I will be laying on some titties for a year or so and will get time to dwell on the philosophical aspects of that. I plan on really working the love part for a bit like I do my job. There are some parallels from your life and mine but the man you were with was indescisive. My woman does not want me having sex over here therefore I respect her wishes. Which more than likely keeps my ass out of trouble with the local chicks anyway. (came close one time was in a chicks room and it took some serious fucking will to not fuck) I passed my own test but I highly recomend not placing yourself in the position to make it easy to cheat if you do not want to cheat. I am not indescisive I have dedicated my life to her.
“””””””Nilk,
It was only when I said I was leaving that he finally wanted to marry me. “””””””””””””
Yea I am committed for life to her. that stops the parralel with me dead in its tracks. I am beyond married to this woman. There will be no divorce. It is not based on a piece of paper but my internal will. Not just love my will (soul if you will).
“”””””””””Nilk,
It took 7 years, but I got a phone call from him one day telling me how he’d never met anyone who’d come close to the standards I set. “””””””””‘
I am not looking for a replacement for my woman. I also do not think I could do better than her. I realized her value as my woman and made the descision to make her mine. I found a diamond there was no need to question myself. Although my thoughts are proven every day how right it was.
“””””””LOL, Gunslinger – he had a small business and I even looked after that when he had to go overseas. Successfully!””””
You will make the right man a good woman one day he he he.
Mines gonna be making about 20 times minimum wage a year by december and only work about 4 weeks a year. lol
So you see she gets to bask in the fact that when I tell her no it works out for the best. She sees that my philosophy on things is in the best interest of all. She has a man who can say he will do something and do it. Which when I tell her I will be with her for life she can believe that. I think it has been a good test for her and if we make it through this should be strong. Good test to is when she makes 20 times how she acts. I think it will be fine. I think I am a catch too even with the flaws. Plus this is gonna blow your mind she is actually appreciative of what she has been given. What she doesn’t know is that she has given me the bigger gift. What man wouldn’t be happy to have made his woman free through his own work. Too many great ideals. I love it.
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“gives sara a hug” it will be ok sara.
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Really though folks this shit is easy. Save money. Invest in something that produces money. Save some of that. Invest in more shit that produces money. Always live below your means not up to your means. I treat life like a video game the shit works.
Key to I think is don’t be selfish. Or don’t be false selfish. If men and woman in commited relationships would quit being selfish out of fear of there partner leaving them. They would be better off for it. Like what woman wants her man to really have a shitload of money in the bank. That really means he can leave any time and get another woman. So yea there is some fear there. Just like if his woman does well and his fear is she won’t need him anymore.
I plan on blowing past that second part I’ll let you know what happens. Although yea ok I realize its not a perfect world so yea I will still make 4 times her lol
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Sara I
We were just waiting for one of your insightful comments.
[or maybe a link that “spiritual” guy OSHA, Oopsie, OhShit or whatever he is called]
Want to try for 700?
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Seeking Alpha
Seeking Alpha is arguing for Open Borders from Australia !!
Max, I live in America.
– I thought you were Australian / an Australian citizen?
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What a timely discussion on this thread….the headline from Drudge’s homepage right now:
IMMIGRATION BILL THIS YEAR: Obama to begin looking for illegal immigrants to become legal, NY TIMES planning to lead in Page Ones on Thursday, newsroom sources tell DRUDGE… Developing…
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“A nation,no matter how small,is “too big to fail.”How do you like them apples?”
i don’t at all, but go ahead if you haven’t learned the lesson from the last time somebody decided to bite the apple. if it were up to me i’d meet the last remaining people beyond the thunderdome =)
but who knows- maybe we’ll get lucky and somebody will push the reset button on humanity in this lifetime?
“Does that include property rights and the inalienable right of “the pursuit of happiness?””
of course. you have no right to free speech, no right to assemble, etc. but i’m not saying rights can’t be useful, i am saying that we should appreciate their utility within the context of what they are- human constructs- instead of acting as though they were ordained by god or reality itself.
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My woman does not want me having sex over here therefore I respect her wishes.
And when she doesn’t want you having sex with someone else back home? Where will you go from there?
Because it will happen. The more emotionally involved she is with you, the less she’s able to be completely rational about it all.
It doesn’t matter about the ground rules you set at the beginning – a relationship does not exist in stasis and there will be changes.
I understand what you’re saying, I really do.
And I also understand about mentoring your woman and helping her succeed. The ex-alpha did the same with me, although it’s not something to discuss with my girlfriends seriously. Women can’t really handle this stuff.
Your Game will have to evolve with her level of involvement, and you’ll get to crunch time.
Is she worth spending the rest of your life with exclusively? This means no more other women. Does making her happy and seeing her succeed mean more to you than getting a legover with little chickie?
And how about a few years down the track?
I can tell you where some old alphas end up. In Asia spending their money on whisky and cheap hookers, pretending that they’re still in on the Game when they’ve merely turned into ageing old pervs.
Obviously her mind engages you, which is good. But will it be enough when you both get older?
And when the kids come along, the libido changes as do priorities. Some women go off sex altogether once they breed. It’s just the way they are, which is why, I guess, the idea that women should submit to men in marriage and look after them and put out regularly.
I don’t see why it’s such a big deal to most women – it’s part of the agreement, if you ask me.
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Max from Australia
– I thought you were Australian / an Australian citizen?
Nope. It is my second favorite country after America though. If we march far enough down the totalitarian path, it’s where I’d want to end up.
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Nilk,
Its such a big deal, if you’ll forgive me, because for most Women, such things are highly emotional indeed. Unless pressured to do so, a Woman’s sense of duty will be overridden by her emotional state. For my Women, especially in our time now, the very idea of “Wifely Duties” is anathema; they don’t see sex as a vital part of the union, but rather as a special treat, and if they had their druthers, one they would be in a position to dole out.
I would also like to respectfully respond to your comments yesterday. I cannot speak for the other Men in this venue, but I try very hard to speak either from my own direct experience, and/or direct observation of those I admire and respect. I can tell you that despite all the protestations to the contrary, Women in the main will indeed look the other way while her Man gets his ravenous sexual needs met, *provided* he handles and goes about it along the ways I’ve earlier indicated.
That’s not a matter of pithy theory, personal opinion or even a reading of historical record-it is a matter of what I’ve seen and done, firsthand.
At present I have two Women, boh of whom know of the other, from the get go; the “eldest” of the two in terms of length of association was completely cool w/my taking another because she knew she was incapable of keeping up with my sexual needs, while I give her a great deal of credit for trying. Some Women simply don’t gotta have it. The second Woman is more than adequate in that regard. I wish to retain both because I enjoy them both sexually and otherwise, and they know that I have a great deal of admiration, respect and love for them. Either or both Women could and can, at anytime, exercise her option to leave-I’ve always made it clear that while they serve me, they are not my slaves. Nor are either Women with nothing going on in their lives. Both are highly educated and distinguished in their careers. O don’t get down with the lowdown gals. Never have.
I speak to both regularly everyday. And, we have plans to vacation together this Summer-seperately of course (Women can be intensely territorial).
Nor is this the first time I’ve done this. In truth, its been more like the 4th or 5th time off the top of my head. One of them I’ve spoken to in this venue before-two Women I dealt with knew that I was involved with them both and dared not attempt to give me any ultimatums. I had dealt with both Women for years, quite satisfactorily. Moreso than many monogamous couples, in fact, with all due respect. Not only did they know about each other, but everyone at my sister’s wedding knew that I was seeing both at the same time-and there was no opposition to it either. I enjoyed both, after the wedding.
Nicole, a longtime contributor to this venue, has gone on record that her grandparents had such an arrangement, with her grandmother even going so far as to assist in the care of the child that resulted in the liason that he grandfather had with his other Woman. This is hardly new, I’ve seen the very same thing myself.
Now, having said all that, do I think that *all* Women, everywhere, is like the ones I’ve described above? No. Nor do I have any problem with that in the least.
But if you honestly think that your views and opinions outweigh that of documented historical record in this regard, let alone the realtime experiences of me and others in this area, you are in for a big letdown. While we are loathe to say so in our time today, the fact of the matter is that a lot of Women lie, just like Men, but not necessarily for the same reasons. A lot of Women know the deal with their Men, and while they may not have a problem with him having another Woman, she may find herself having some splainin to do to her friends-hence all the sound and fury from so many Women these days.
Don’t believe the hype.
The Obsidian
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nilk–
It only is under feminism, and the precursor British model chivalry, largely only during the Victorian era and since. Actually that only applied to upper and upper middle class women back then.
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Obsidian
Yes, that’s the nub of the problem, assuming the man is alpha enough. Discretion is essential. Including hers, when talking to her gf’s. The social pressure in American society, particularly I think among non blacks and especially whites, is enormous. For reasons of feminism and legacy chivalry.
That can take different forms if it comes out. The easiest is often for her to claim it’s a two way open relationship, even if she really doesn’t want to go there.
I’ve done the same a number of times. Though pulling it off long term when you live together is a lot more of a challenge. I’ve done it that way over the course of a few years. But it took a LOT of energy.
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LOL, Obsidian. You’re right when you say we can be very territorial. This is one of the problems if you’re trying to work on a polygamous thing.
Having been down that path, I would rather live alone for the rest of my life than be with a man who doesn’t find me enough. I’m just not interested.
What I wanted in my 20s is not what I want in my 40s.
Your point about your women not giving you ultimatums –…dared not attempt to give me any ultimatums. is really the kicker.
Ultimatums are a last resort, and one I’ve never reached. If it gets to the stage where they are considered necessary, then it’s time to go. There is no more compromise, no more negotiation.
As for my views and opinions outweighing historical evidence, obviously 5 years of my life living in this situation are irrelevant.
I’m sure that wasn’t what you meant to say, but I am still a woman, and as much as it annoys the crap out of me at times, I do still filter things through the “feeling” sector rather than the “thinking” sector of my brain.
I don’t know how old Nicole is, or her grandparents, but it’s probably a safe assumption that in her grandparents’ time, a woman leaving an unhappy/unsatisfactory marriage left behind her children.
That’s a pretty strong motivation to put up with a situation like that.
Women in those days did not have the options that they have these days, and while you’ll disagree with me there, I rather like having a few more choices than my grandmother did.
My maternal grandfather fooled around on my grandmother, too. The only difference is that she only found out about it when the woman wrote to him to let him know that his son had died.
With your women, do you see it lasting through breeding and beyond?
There is the biological clock thing, after all.
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“”””””””””””And how about a few years down the track?
Obviously her mind engages you, which is good. But will it be enough when you both get older?
And when the kids come along, the libido changes as do priorities. Some women go off sex altogether once they breed. It’s just the way they are, which is why, I guess, the idea that women should submit to men in marriage and look after them and put out regularly.
I don’t see why it’s such a big deal to most women – it’s part of the agreement, if you ask me.”””””””””
I actually see it as a way to have a shitload of kids as well so that I can have plenty of little mini me’s to pass my genious onto. I can tell them how to beat the system all they will have to be able to do is apply. Yea it is not going to be only about sex. I do want a busload of kids as well. When she is old she will still cook and clean the house and cuddle with me. That will be fine. Plus she will have friends to talk to. He He He
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“Nilk,
It doesn’t matter about the ground rules you set at the beginning – a relationship does not exist in stasis and there will be changes. ”
It does actually matter the ground rules you set at the beginning. If a promise is made between two people who can actually keep a promise to love each other till they die and beyond. Then that promise will be kept. I can say I will love my woman till death and can make that come true.
You think you like being able to have more choices. In reality it has made you weak. There is one choice you cannot imagine a person can make and that is to love another person for life.
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I stand corrected, Gunslinger. Yes, the ground rules do matter as a starting point.
This does not take away from my contention about relationships changing. When you bring other people in, you change the dynamics, and they don’t always go where you want.
This is especially so with children, and what happens if she doesn’t like your other women, or she decides that she really wants something a bit more formal than a verbal reassurance of your commitment? Or if she gets the feeling that someone else is bucking for first place in your affections?
There are a whole lot of factors at play here, and you’ve not convinced me that it will work out forever.
You think you like being able to have more choices. In reality it has made you weak. There is one choice you cannot imagine a person can make and that is to love another person for life.
We’ll agree to disagree on this one. I’ve made the decision in the past to love a man for life, but there are times when you have to walk away regardless of how you feel.
Then you have to make a choice of whether you should continue loving them, or stop. Either are difficult decisions to make.
I also find it interesting that you think I’m weak. I’ll file that under the “Wow!” file. 🙂
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Yea if my woman decides that it is too much she will kill me in my sleep. That is strong 🙂 Not decide to leave.
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“””””””””””Nilk,
Then you have to make a choice of whether you should continue loving them, or stop. Either are difficult decisions to make. “””””””””””””
That choice does not come up if you make the original descision to love the man for life period. No fucking gray area. Black and white. You either make the choice to love for life and stick with it or you don’t.
Your basing this on somehow bringing another into relationship is bad. If you make the choice to love for life this does not matter.
Well if you just stay with one but cannot make the descision to love them for life that won’t work either. All relationships will have changes. All things will change. Except for the descision you can make as a human being to make it not change as far as your commitment to the other person. This applies to other areas of life as well.
If you can make a choice to love for life you can.
If you want to be rich and then make a choice to do so then you can.
If you want to love unconditionally you can.
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Gunslinger when you are talking about polygamous arrangements then you’re talking about more than one person in the relationship.
That’s all.
You’re saying you have your woman, you’re devoted to her, and she to you. All good so far.
On top of that, you want to have other women as well, and it looks like you’re saying your woman is cool with that.
Again, if that works for you good.
All I’m saying is from the point of someone who’s been in your woman’s position that I think you’ve got a bloody difficult task ahead of you.
While you’re keeping your main woman on side, where do the other women fit into it, or are they just there for your benefit?
If you are loving one woman unconditionally, you don’t have room to treat equally with the other women.
Saying my opinion is bad does not address the issues.
I’m merely one woman, what would I know about how women think and act when in situations like this?
I’m trying to be rational here, and you have no idea how difficult it is lol.
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lol rational. I do appreciate the thoughts. Interesting to see. Yea it is an area of my life I do not want to control at the moment. I am not quite able to be a complete robot lol Have to have a release valve and maybe a human fault somewhere.
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See how it works out I wreckin. If I can have a 100 kids though that would be a lot of future power. Especially if I can raise them to help one another. At least 20 of them will be supersmart. The rest will actually be able to achieve something lol
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Libertarianism is liberalism for angry losery males.
Letting everyone do what they want is what got us here in the first place, idiots. Freedom = individualism = diversity = societal heat death.
That said, the best cultures have a good amount of freedom built into their structure, as long as it serves the goal of the civilization as a whole.
BTW, what good is an alpha male if he doesn’t breed? It’s a concept I don’t get.
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I don’t get it either Sam
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Of course I am not an Alpha male so I wouldn’t know.
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Doug,
I think Feminism has some serious flaws in many of its undergirding arguments, and this comes as no great surprise to you and others, but what’s important to note is how those salient counterarguments have been drowned out by a kind of faux moral outrage on the part of feminists, basically tarring and feathering any and everyone who dared bring such arguments into the public square. The bottomline is, that history is clearly on my side of the debate, and so is, it seems, evolutionary psychology and by extension, Game. No matter how much Women like Nilk crow to the contrary, the fact remains that a Woman is not only tolerant of polygamous arrangements but actually endorses them, not in words, but where it actually counts-in deeds. Whiskey and others have clearly shown sexual patterns in recent decades tallying with what I’ve said over the past few posts. So, it seems to me that Feminists themselves have a good bit of splainin to do, instead of attempting to putdown or shutdown any opposing voice. Its a badly foisted smokescreen that’s getting older by the minute.
As for classical or even more neo chivalry, I would disagree-history again records that if there’s ever been a group penalized for its sexual behavior, *its been Men, NOT Women*, and the presenting the reverse as the case is yet another Big Lie foisted upon us all by the Feminists. Men who were known philanderers didn’t have many great friends in society, and were often avoided and shunned from participation from commerce and the like. The *only* way they could keep such things going was IF they were discreet, hence my points again above.
As for differences in approach and response among Women of varying ethnic/racial/class groups, I think you make an excellent observation; even in the book Promises I Can’t Keep, the authors note that there is a huge difference between the poor White Women of Kensington and the poor Black and Hispanic Women of North Philly and Camden NJ. It is not unsual to them conclude that there may be cultural differences in these matters.
O
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nilk
First of all Anglosphere society is the most against ANY men having relationships outside of marriage of any in the world, right? You’d agree with that common understanding, right? (Feminists will say it’s because their full light as yet to shine elsewhere, which I don’t entirely disagree with, though I’d characterize it as their full shadow.)
So maybe this aversion isn’t as absolute as you imagine it is? Isn’t that possible nilk?
As well I think it would take a really strong belief system idealizing polygamy to feel entirely happy about finding oneself in that situation. Entirely happy I said.
And as well, I think few to no women would be happy sharing a beta polygamously.
Ok, now having said that imagine you fell in love AND VICE VERSA with one of your male idols who isn’t just statospheric, but is famous in some or quite a lot of circles. Now say he traveled and when he did he often slept with female admirers, whom he found incredibly easy to pick up. But he called you when on the road and relied on your caring and support and when he comes back he’s as hungry for you as ever and playful / fun to be with. You remain soul mates.
So you’d feel duty bound to your beliefs to leave this guy anyway nilk, when he’s open to you about his road dalliances when you press him on it?
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Obsidian and Doug,
Regarding women and polygamy/polyandry, and how it all fits into western civ, let’s go back to the stone ages and before.
This is merely my take, and not to be seen as gospel, of course. 🙂
Our basic biological urges as men and women are the same: procreate, procreate, procreate.
No problems there, except than when men breed, all that consists of is doing the wild thing with any passing woman who’ll take them and some who won’t.
For women, it’s about getting a man to impregnate them, and then keeping him around for protection and some nurturance until she can get back to looking out for herself and the offspring can assist in its own protection or survive on its own.
An alpha is definitely preferable because his genes will ensure the most viability for the ensuing offspring.
Fast forward a few millennia, and the idea of forming mutually beneficial partnerships has reared its head.
Men like the idea of a stable of women, and women will put up with sharing a man due to high mortality, lower populations and self-interest/protection and sustenance.
Women still have the urge to go for the alphas, so social mechanisms are put into place a la the different forms of marriage.
There are some matriarchal/matrilineal societies developing, and also patriarchal.
Interestingly, the patriarchal model is the most beneficial to all concerned, and the most successful one of those is the one male/one female monogamous marriage with all the attendant restrictions placed upon the participants.
In evolutionary terms, it works, but as humans have higher functioning intellectual faculties than others, well, we tend to see through things such as biological imperatives, which leads to…… feminism!
Feminism in tandem with cultural marxism has worked to remove the shackles of civilisation on sexuality and also the social stigmas involved in maintaining committed partnerships in breeding and raising children.
Which leads us to where we’re at with women wanting it all.
So some women will agree to a polygamous situation because they don’t see anything better on the horizon, and men will love it because it means they can rut about all they like to spread their genes.
As long as they’re alphas they should be fine.
Doesn’t mean it’s best for current civilisation, also, but we’re talking biology here, not philosophy.
Biologically, I’m sure Bhetti would say that islam with its polygamous model is the best when it comes to increasing the species, and Tood would agree, but have a look at the ultimate outcomes.
I happen to like mod cons, and the internet, and music, and alcohol and everything that comes along with our society – including time with the opposite sex.
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Doug, re polygamous arrangements, these days I have no desire to compromise and when it comes to love, I don’t go there blindly.
I honestly can’t say I know how I’d react. I’d like to say that his fooling around is a dealbreaker, but most likely it would be a case of don’t ask/don’t tell.
If we’re talking a real and committed love thing, then he’d have to show me some serious commitment, and for me that means marriage. I swore after the alpha that I’d never live with a man I wasn’t married to, and I swore after my involvement with my girl’s dad that I was going celibate unless there was something majorly serious going on.
Needless to say, it’s been years since I’ve done anything – and not for lack of opportunity, btw – and I’m expecting it to be years more before I do anything with anyone.
It would take a very special man to convince me that I should do anything with him.
Oh, and marriage doesn’t just mean a waltz down the aisle, it means pre-nups with everything laid out, and an extra contract on the side if necessary to deal with as much as possible.
Actions speak louder than words, and I’ve proven to myself that I’ll look out for a man’s interests to the expense of my own with my daughter. Any bloke that takes up with me knows that I wouldn’t rip him off if we were to have kids.
I’d need some convincing that it was worth my while, even if I did love him to bits.
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You are flat-out abusive. This isn’t “the truths everyone knows…” or whatever you’re calling it. It’s just basic bullying behavior, dressed up by the idea that women owe you something because you are a man.
Sometimes people are rude (your blog has plenty of examples). This behavior does not require a response from you. It does not force you to respond in kind. It doesn’t do anything, because it’s not your problem. You only think it’s a problem because you have serious boundary issues and drama queen tendencies.
Oh, the horror. Someone made a rude comment to you on a date and you had to go nuclear on her ass to preserve… What, exactly, were you trying to protect? Because wouldn’t it have been a lot easier to decide, “I don’t want to date this girl,” and walk off? This whole blog is a monument to insecurity.
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Bhetti – If any of you are looking to see what Default User’s on about– look me up so that I can recommend ones which are of known brilliant quality. So you don’t feel that bad reading it. Off the top of my head: Lord of Scoundrels.
So this is what get’s your motor going?
LORD OF SCOUNDRELS
They call him many names but Angelic isn’t one of them…
Sebastian Ballister, the notorious Marquess of Dain, is big, bad, and dangerous to know. No respectable woman would have anything to do with the “Bane and Blight of the Ballisters”–and he wants nothing to do with respectable women. He’s determined to continue doing what he does best–sin and sin again–and all that’s going swimmingly, thank you…until the day a shop door opens and she walks in.
She’s too intelligent to fall for the worst man in the world…
Jessica Trent is a determined young woman, and she’s going to drag her imbecile brother off the road to ruin, no matter what it takes. If saving him–and with him, her family and future–means taking on the devil himself, she won’t back down. The trouble is, the devil in question is so shockingly irresistible, and the person who needs the most saving is–herself!
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Nilk and Obsidian, as I get older, I’m more polyamory friendly than I was in my 20’s. I’ve always required honesty about it, and reserved the right to opt out if I cease to trust his taste…which is partly why I’m not with my first ex. His beta relapses are always in the form of some mercenary woman who deep down, doesn’t give a crap about him.
A guy with a collection of *wives* (or wife type women) doesn’t bother me in the least. It’s a collection of *hoes* that creeps me out. It means that his selection criteria is lower beta, and I’m probably on the list as the “security girl”.
Being the one in the group who has some damned sense is not a fun position to be in. I’ve seen scenarios like that played out in and out of the BDSM scene. It’s never pretty.
No one person is never “enough” for any other person. Women are just better at focusing our sexual energy because of our general tendency to place men in hierarchies and reward the victor. Not all women are oriented that way, but that’s another topic.
Men who are dominant tend to be more polyamorous, and this is something that shouldn’t be discouraged. There’s a problem with a good man being totally monogamous, and that has to do with a shortage of available, quality men who are willing and able to be good fathers. There’s also a shortage of good, quality women who are attentive wives and mothers.
Since love is serious, and not something I believe should be contained in artificial boxes, I want for my sisters what I want for myself. I couldn’t see leaving a woman who is as good as me, and loves my man just as much, being left out in this cruel world just because of generalities.
Yeah, people are generally stupid, but if you’re one of the ones who isn’t, you’re going to be in a minority…and in that, there may not be a 1:1 ratio of available and compatible partners. I’d rather work with nature than try to fight against it. In my case, living by my principles has paid off well despite the sexual upset.
My second ex’s girlfriend has benefitted greatly from having both of us in her life. She’s a much better mom and overall person than she was when we met her. The big thing is that she’s gotten past her martyr complex. I’m not sure she could have done that if she hadn’t seen how I relate to my daughter.
I’ve learned alot from her too. She encouraged me to go the natural route in my cooking style. I was afraid to eat like she does (she’s French). Until she got her home life in order, she was fatter, so the stuff she was telling me wasn’t registering. As soon as she had more time and stability though, her weight fell off, and she told me that it’s because now she had the mind and time to cook like she’s supposed to.
That got my attention. So I’ve benefitted alot from polyamory. I think some women, at least women like me, who can get into a kind of workaholic cave, need a home base where there are other women to talk to. Extended family can do that, but it’s not quite the same relationship as when you’re hand washing the same guy’s wool jumpsuits. 😉
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