Occasionally I get linked by the kind of blog which makes my heart swell with pride. This happened recently when the self-professed polyamorous slut over at The Errant Wife linked to my post about identifying sluts and set a new land speed record for projectile menstruating an uncontrollable tizzy. Let’s see what she really thinks of yer ‘umble paladin of slutty truths:
How to tell if you are a premature ejaculating, insecure, mother-fucking cock/asshat/wannabe/loser:
1. You criticize a woman who “talks about sex first” or “ask for kinky stuff.”
What, your “masculinity” can’t handle being asked for something she likes? You don’t like a woman to be interested in sex? This seems odd, given that you like to ‘tap ass’ as you so eloquently put it. Hmmm, maybe you don’t like to be asked ’cause you don’t know how to give it to me? Just putting it out there.[…]
5. You have a small cock.
Hate to break it to you, darling, but all that ‘cavernous cunt’ stuff you are spouting – not so much a problem with the ladies…[…]
6. You talk about all the ass you tap, but want wife/mother material with under 3 partners.
You know, I can’t stand a man who can’t handle a girl who knows what she wants. Not to put to fine a point on it – put if you have been with THAT many women to be able to identify THAT many different kind of sluts then we have a bit of a pot/kettle situation here, motherfuckers. And really, I am going to limit myself to three or under sexual partners so I can wear your cheap ring and bear your shallow end of the gene pool dim children? Yeah, I think I’ll pass.[…]
Let me tell you something: real women, interesting women, women with brains and women that are going places – even if these women have had the three or less sexual partners you require – they are not going to be interested in the likes of you. They want a man who sees them, who appreciates life and people and who is looking for a person and a relationship that is fulfilling for both parties, not someone who is in the market for a misogynist idea and the pretty girl that matches it.
For the record, I a woman of mind and beauty and body, a woman of education and spirit and soul – a woman who has had more than three sexual partners and has enjoyed and adored every one of them – and you are completely unworthy of a woman of my calibre.
I am utterly out of your league.
I admire her spunk (note: not a barely concealed reference to any vaginal toxic sludge). What she lacks in original thinking she makes up for with energetic verve. I bet she piston-fucks like a man.
How much do you want to bet that the guy who wrote the article would respond to that last statement with: whatever, I am sooo not interested? Like that would be an insult.
Although Miss Proudly Polyamorous Cumfunneler wisely blocked out her face, judging by the half-naked pics of herself on her blog, she looks potentially attractive. Late 30s? Body is decent. Given the evidence at hand, I’d respond: “I’d keep the conversation to a sanity-preserving minimum and fuck you all night long into the morning, then eat your leftover chinese food and leave.”
The commenters were unanimous in their love:
Some time ago I wrote something in our blog about what I called the “whiny male bitchassness” women have to put up with when they aspire to and own their sluthood, and that fucktard who wrote the post you responded to is a good example of what I was talking about.
A woman aspiring to sluthood is like a nerd aspiring to social ineptitude. Frame that accomplishment and hang it on the wall, grrl! And what does “own your sluthood” mean? Is it anything like “own your facial”? Femspeak: War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Sluttiness is courage.
On behalf of the majority of men out there I apologize for this scumbag’s post. We all do not think this way and it really does point out his insecurities.
Beta.
i guess this is probably a bad time to tell you that i’ve never wanted you more than i do right now, eh?
Supremo beta.
I read his blog for awhile and while he definitely is prone to humor and satire, actually some pretty good stuff too, the blogger in question does have an overall theme of thinking a good woman is the traditional woman myth. That their man should be their center of their universe and gives them purpose and all other good things. He suffers from a lot of ignorance.
Overall my impression was a talented writer who was a total narcissist who truly does think he knows everything from quick observations into his life where his thoughts of himself and beliefs seem to always magically get validated.
This was from a commenter named Crystal, a woman who is drawn, despite her better judgment, to my awesome vortex of masculine power and devilish charm. Crystal, did you know that narcissism is one of the “dark triad” male traits which compels women to shimmy out of their panties? You do now, sexxxysuga.
OMG I love your rant, so incredibly well said. The guy is a complete ‘fucktard’ & is obviously as intimidated as hell by women who are sexually confident and secure.
Ego-bruised female armchair psychological diagnosis #349 in a series.
I’m not sure what makes my head spin more, this fucktard or all of the comments who appear to agree with him.
Please believe me, all men are NOT like that guy!
Do betas get laid with this lame white knighting suckassery or do they get a platonic hug buddy and blue balls? Rhetorical.
And my favorite comment of all (from a man, no less):
words can’t even express how well — how perfectly — this diatribe responds to the caliber of idiot that is me. “the 16 commandments of poon” — really? “the dating market value test,” segregated arbitrarily into two versions for the two genders society perceives.
i’ve met a lot of amazing womyn in my four years of college but it’s so rare to find a powerful gem like you so far from a place like a university or community center. i could hug you!
“… the two genders society perceives.”
😆
What do you say about a man who seriously uses the word “womyn”? David Alexander’s non-date girlfriend laughs at you. “… it’s so rare to find a powerful gem like you so far from a place like a university”. Oh, my sides! The rot in academia has reached the core. Nuke the cult from orbit and start over.
A lot of the commenters shared the peculiar habit of thanking the host “for the rant”. This is something I’ve noticed is very common on femtard blogs — a shrieking chorus of yes-women and raisin-sacked beta suckups exhaling loudly with deep guttural gratitude for the host’s reaffirmation of their dearly guarded prejudices and prerogatives. It’s as if without the nourishment of a constant cliched drumbeat of “you go girl” in-group agitprop their fragile egos would pack up and leave them a shuddering mess of self-doubt and suicidal tendencies.
I was curious about the Errant Slut, so I read a few of her archived posts.
I am not sure how I am going to blatantly proposition hot class guy if he never comes to class. Seriously, I know the year is almost over – but get your butt in the chair, dude, so I can tell you to put that butt in my bed.
I actually wore mascara today in an effort to better bat my eyelashes alluringly. Pearl earrings to encourage him to give me a pearl necklace. My lucky high boots that say I will fuck you hard, bitch. This is my top game people and no one was there to appreciate it!
Motherfucker. Well, at least I hope he is…
Cross your fingers, won’t you, that I will be able to open my legs.
Slut pride is often a +5 Mask of Empowerment for the insecurities that spring from fear of aging and becoming invisible to men. Many of these sluts are true to their word and sleep around in vain hope of silencing the dread knock at the door by Father Time, but then there are those sluts whose stories are more bragaddocio than truth in advertising. If you’re looking for a no muss no fuss no wedding ring quickie, you’ll want to steer clear of the braggart sluts. By their brazen lewdness you shall know them as cockteases.
Oh sweet baby slut, I found some posts about her husband. Surprise, surprise, the whore cheats on him and gleefully recounts her sexploits in public for guys like me to wield as instruments of psychological torture.
So, where to begin? The background, as is always the case, is huge and undramatic.
Normal and profoundly unsatisfying life. Three beautiful children and a husband who pays the bills and ignores everything and anything I say to him. 10 years of marriage during which I guarantee my opinion has never mattered – I try and try to tell him what I need from the relationship, he agrees and sees my side of EVERYTHING, and yet, there are no changes.
I am talking to the wall.
Rude translation: My attraction for my sexless beta husband is gone. He never challenges me. I now have all the reason I need to rationalize sitting on a carousel of random cock.
I did not go home with him that night but instead commenced a IMing relationship with him. Dirty talk. Friendly talk. Utter Escapism. And then we met. In his apartment.
For an evening of the kind of sex that you remember. The kind of sex where you each have a sheen of sweat. Fantastic. (Fucktastic?) He tastes good. He is good in bed. AND I have no guilt. None. I have realized that I have the one life and I refuse to limit it within other people’s moral structures and I refuse also to be unhappy anymore. If my life as it stands does not make me happy then I will do what it takes to create happiness for myself.
“Not my fault. You didn’t give me what I want.” What we learn:
Women are amoral and will act according to the ethereal justification of their emotions. If she’s unhappy, it matters not how virtuous, devoted, dependable and loving the husband is to her.
All women are cheap whores by nature.
Children will not alter her calculation.
In a woman’s eyes, to be a beta male is worse than anything else. Even serial killer.
Sluts are more likely to cheat. Monogamously inclined men should beware. Players should delight.
Don’t get married!
More from the pit of woman’s soul:
Friends always says “oh, your husband is so nice” – but the reality is that nice will only take you so far.
Niceguys finish cuckolded.
I spent a lot of time in high school having sex I did not really want to have.
I had sex to create something – a feeling, a relationship, an image of myself, an attitude, a perception, an emotional space. Now when my husband wants to have sex with me – and he constantly badgers me – I feel liberated to say no. Liberated to say no in a way that I did not when I was younger.
I would get into situations where I felt bad saying no, where it was easier to say yes, where it would just seem like I might as well. But now I don’t want to have sex that I don’t want to have – and I am sorry if my husband is not happy with that – truly I am – but I am not going to force myself. Forcing myself: closing my eyes and thinking of England, spreading to keep him happy, makes me feel like a prostitute. It makes me feel dirty. Fucking my adorable younger boyfriend does not make me feel guilty, or dirty or anything other than free.
[…]
In an unsettling turn of events, I think the husband may be on to me. Mr Ashley Madison # 3 is sending me emails that are eerily familiar. It is cheesy like the husband, it has appalling spelling like the husband, and there is just something there. When I read them and the things he is saying and the questions he is asking – it is exactly what the husband would say to draw me out. I checked the profile and he also identifies as the same height and weight – although the age is different. I wonder if I am being snaked?
Stare into the abyss and breathe deeply the dank stench emanating from its womb.
The Revolution is beginning to spread to the most blighted corners of humanity, but some are incapable of salvation. They are not to be reasoned with. They are not to be cajoled. They are to be steamrolled with extreme prejudice and sadistic humor. And unlubed anal sex.

Totally off topic, but it appears that paleocons like ’em young.
First it comes out that Peter Brimelow married a 22 year old in his 60s and now I find that philosopher Roger Scruton married and had children with at 26 year old at 54. See here.
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Hey Roissy,
We know how much you (don’t) love women lawyers, you’ll get a laugh out of this story.
Peter
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“What do you say about a man who seriously uses the word “womyn”?”
That he’s not a man at all?
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A commenter should find out her name and publish it.
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When Roissy writes an anti-slut screed that celebrates his own promiscuity, an average female reader will find something attractive in his persona.
When a Slut writes an anti-Roissy screed that celebrates her own promiscuity, an average male reader will find something repellent in her persona.
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your words mean more than they should
keep spreading the word; keep spreading the legs.
some may never get it
but that’s not your problem.
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She feels dirty and guiltywhen sleeping with her husband. Having an affair makes her feel clean and happy…. God I wish I could have read this 10 years ago.
Beta really is worse then death. You might as well hand over your balls.
Time to up the amount of drinking and whoring I do…. signifigantly. My plan: make it a life long habit… beats having a cucklonding disrespectful whore for a wife. God help her if I were married to her and I found her blog.
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I haven’t even finished reading this post yet, but “projectile menstruating” just made me spit out my coffee all over my nice white desk.
Thanks a lot, Roissy!
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Roissy’s blog has exposed me to some unspeakable horrors over the months. As a member of one of the two genders that society recognizes, I am no longer shocked that an entity like this exists.
As society drifts away from traditionalism and into egocentric existentialism, I’ve lately pondered if I could start killing other humans and still be able to live with myself. The more I meditate on this, the more comfortable an idea it becomes.
On another note, I must wonder about this woman’s political affiliation. She seems ruggedly self-motivated, but her demographic stereotype screams out for a nanny-state. I’m sure her readers are self-described ‘staunch liberals.’ Do you suppose they ever reflect on their own irony?
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Roissy said–
Perhaps women are more amoral by nature. Not sure.
But I AM sure they’re allowed to be, big time, by our culture.
A wife’s emotions are extraordinarily privileged in American culture. They’re ALWAYS inherently right. Its the job of every American husband to cater to his wife’s emotions and satisfy them at all times no matter what.
Equally important, every American wife is endless assured that it’s her right, NAY her duty, to listen to, and follow, the lodestone of her emotions at all times.
Because you see they’re ALWAYS right!!!
(In contrast the American husband’s emotions are always something that he needs to control, and usually grow up about. It’s never the job of an American wife to cater to her husband’s emotions unless of course her own lead her to do so. It’s up to her American husband to see to that!!!!)
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A woman who’s interesting and going somewhere — and yet swears like a needy fratboy. “Asshat?” Easily one of the lamest swears ever coined, and she’s still holding onto it 10 years later. Old broads are always so out of touch.
The male-perceived commenters are worse. The weight of the evidence is in, and Generation X is even more pathetic than the Baby Boomers — at least they had their summer of love, rambunctious rabble-rousing, etc., before they went all pussified. Men born in the early 1970s, on average, must be the most ball-less group ever born, and their female counterparts the most bitchy and obnoxious.
Anyway, having to deal with this aging windbag is depressing. Time for a little relief:
http://jailbaitgallery.com/index.php?id=15320
Ah, that’s more like that. If only you could freeze them in time…
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I’m hoping the slut (errant wife) reads this post and responds in an accusational/self-rationalizing/you-go-girl manner…
It would make for a great day of laughs.
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I think Crystal is just drawn to your posh Geotown addy.
I never realized KassyK’s blog was aka The Errant Wife
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Note to female readers of roissy’s blog: if you cheat on your husband, don’t blame roissy for espousing a worldview that would protect a man from a whore like you.
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Is she in DC? Because I just checked out her pics and would be willing to jizz in her mouth, free of charge.
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Doesn’t her husband know about the blog?
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I’d tytty fuck that wyman then take a giant shyt on her stomach.
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The real question is whether she has a GNP.
Peter
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Even if her husband did know…it doesn’t matter, he’s beta. Another reason to avoid marriage like the plague.
Here’s a thought about reading about 35+ (read: NOT 19-26) female blogs who celebrate their own sexual nature —–> Nobody cares.
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Truth,
You owe me a keyboard!!!
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This blog entry is easily one of your finest yet.
I actually cried.
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“I’d tytty fuck that wyman then take a giant shyt on her stomach.”
The Cleveland Steamer. Don’t forget to “upper deck” the toilet too. Now that’s insult to injury.
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My comments on the previous thread just happens to address this issue perfectly. Fellas, you gotta set the pace *early*, otherwise it’ll be all but impossible to right the ship later on.
The only recourse for this Man is to remove his sorry excuse of a Wife from the world. Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.
O
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Ah, Ashley Madison; the new Craigslist for finding 35+ year old sluts cheating on their husbands. The thing is, unlike Craigslist, you have to pay for it, which makes it … kinda not really worth it. I mean, it was cheap thrills at first, porking some other dude’s meat. But then, the dreary sameness of it all: the rationalizations, the looking for excuses and justifications from me, the flabbiness of middle age, the self absorption of a teenage girl combined with the mileage of an older woman. I might do it again out of boredom, but I can’t see paying even a couple dollars for it. In fact, I’d be more inclined to pay such women to stay away from me.
The hilarious thing about this douchebag and all them who are like her is she thinks she’s very special, liberated and highly evolved for being a treacherous slut, but her type is so common, people make a living running a website which caters to people like her. I bet I could sell her toothpaste which makes her feel special.
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Crystal, did you know that narcissism is one of the “dark triad” male traits which compels women to shimmy out of their panties? You do now, sexxxysuga.
Wow, “dark triad”… I know what I’m going to call myself if I ever feel like I need a PUA name.
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Hilarious.
Slightly off-topic… check out this Craigslist post of a beta scorned. There may be hope for him…
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/fuo/1134590710.html
“Hurry now because this original Samantha Haberkorn coffee table won’t last long. What? You’ve never heard of the Samatha Haberkorn collection? Maybe that’s because you’ve never been to a brothel or visited enough public bathroom stalls where you surely would have seen her name etched on the wall. Samantha Haberkorn is my ex-girlfriend and two weeks ago I plowed her on top of this coffee table before she squeezed her fat ass back into her size 12 jeans and went out to the Pig’N Whistle and banged my best friend…”
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It drives me nuts that people don’t think laws matter, and matter big.
It’s clear from just a little reading of her blog that her husband earns by far the lions share of their income – and maybe all of it, haven’t read enough to know that for sure.
This woman isn’t remotely unique. There are a lot of (sorta) proud cheating wife blogs, where they seek and find lots of approval from women and men both.
Now consider the effects if upon discovery she got none of her husbands savings, and lost her kids to him. Or simply got zero child support from him mandated by law. If the law made it entirely up to him.
Something tells me there would be a LOT less of this, and a whole different, scared tone to the blogs like this that did exist. And yeah with a whole lot of wailing about how unfair those patriarchal laws were that gave wives nothing they didn’t earn themselves.
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42 year old woman gives herself 52 weeks to find a husband. This should yield months of Roissy material:
http://www.52weeks2findhim.com/index.html
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She’s 43 and only now looking for marriage. What a trend setter and pioneer.
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it is a true Roissy maxim. Also, it is similar to what Ncole wrote about women over 30 who are overepresented in the BDSM, group sex, orgies scenario
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I don’t know, Roissy. This was an amusing post, but I feel like you’re going after low-hanging fruit. If you really want to discredit feminism, go after its most eloquent defenders, not some slut with a blog.
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Why is she ranting about your slut identification post, when she’s proud of being a slut? Doesn’t make sense.
An Omega should invent the following device (for Betas):
– The Cheating Bitch Detector
– is small enough to fit inside common jewelry, like a necklace charm
– is self-powered (like those self-winding watches), or ultra long battery life
– does not get hot
– detects sex noises / movements, perhaps with audio/still image/video recording
– informs Beta husband of cheating wife’s location via GPS, display image/plays audio, sends google map of location of nearest gun store
This should be possible with today’s miniaturization.
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Some times the low hanging fruit tastes fantastic.
Fuck feminism, the ruin that technological kitchen aids wrought.
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“The real question is whether she has a GNP.”
Doubtful. She’s old and trying to maintain her youthfulness, of course she’s bald down below.
I’ve always found it funny that the man involved in a relationship in which his wife is the cheater is *still* the one that seems like the outcast or loser and to some extent the bad guy.
People feel comtempt, shame, pity, and anger toward him, yet the wife gets consolation from her girlfriends and beta guy friends telling her that she’s not a bad person for it.
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roissy – Rude translation: My attraction for my sexless beta husband is gone. He never challenges me. I now have all the reason I need to rationalize sitting on a carousel of random cock.
No. The better translation is this is all the fictional ramblings of a mousy, average woman with SWPL/feminist/academic influences who takes refuge from her relatively sexless real life by constructing a highly sexualized alter ego on her blog.
Her blog has the same relation to her actual life that a Star Trek convention has to the NASA space program.
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“If you really want to discredit feminism, go after its most eloquent defenders, not some slut with a blog.”
The low hanging fruit is feminism as it is in the world. The eloquent defenders are defending feminism as it exists only in their delusions.
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i remember singing in a punk band in high school. we were covering gg allin’s “sluts in the city” and while we were rehearsing our drummer’s mom ran out and somberly informed us that “there are girls who keep their self-esteem between their ears and those who keep it between their legs, which would you rather be?”
that song still kicked ass though.
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People feel comtempt, shame, pity, and anger toward him
That’s because a cuckold failed miserably at one or both of these:
1) Marrying a woman with a good character — happens to many Alphas, especially celebrity male alphas, who can get any woman they want but can’t see past their hotness. See OJ, Hulk Hogan, Paul McCartney with Heather Mills.
2) Maintaining her attraction for him throguh LTR game — complacency can get anyone, but Betas are more likely to think that once married, they can “dispose of the charade” and just be their beta selves. Game is a lifetime commitment.
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“there are girls who keep their self-esteem between their ears and those who keep it between their legs, which would you rather be?”
That’s a good line. There was a similar one in Saturday Night Fever. John Travolta’s alpha character says this to a girl who is begging him to be with her:
(from memory) “A girl’s got to decide early on if she’s gonna be a good girl or a cunt. Which one are you gonna be?”
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Field Field Report: Off topic.
Roissy, I’m totally going to bang that Navy chick. Was in my usual fuck-it mode from work going to dinner at the chow hall here in Kabul.
Saw miss Navy girl sitting by herself. She is only a 6 back in the states, but out here – Deployed Standard Scale Offset kicks in. At this point the scale is +2, soon to be +3 if they keep shipping dudes in.
So I just walk up, plop my tray down and say hi. She started moving shit out of the way for me. How nice. She is a bit sheepish, and we make eye contact so many times passing in the hall. She breaks it first and looks away. Most of the guys that she works with is like the guys I work with. Old officers that are married and out of shape. And lots of dumb fuck reservists and national guard with bad haircuts and worse game.
Turns out she is from the mid-west, comes from a strong family, and its stuck out in Afghanistan for a fuck lot longer than I’ll be. You almost see the relief that she didn’t have to sit alone at another shitty dinner or listen to her completely beta buddies that talk incessantly of what they’ll do first when they get home. You know, get drunk, take a vacation with the fat wife and kids, get a hooker.
I took the chance to let her know that my top secret job involves wrangling unicorns for Hamed Karzai. She giggled that I disagreed with Obama and laughed at her taste in music. Every other guy on post is kissing her ass to get some – I just look her in the eyes like I’m going to fuck her, all the while being aloof.
Game works anywhere fellas. Even in the toughest, most stressful place on earth. I got her cell number(gov’t issue, but fuck it, still going to call it). Will be interesting if I can find a place to fuck her besides a port-o-john.
Support your military – send booze and baby wipes Thx.
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Man, that blog is the gift that keeps on giving, like Herpes:
“It is not that I don’t value the relationship I have, especially now that those anti-depressants have kicked in, but really, honestly, truthfully, I am not a monogamist. Not at my core, not in my soul. I will come home to you, I will live my life with you – but I really want to suck him off…is that ok?
Fuck fuck fuck. Yes you, how about now? “
http://yourerrantwife.blogspot.com/search/label/infidelity
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If you really want to discredit feminism, go after its most eloquent defenders, not some slut with a blog.
Feminism is self-discrediting – no Roissy action required!
But he is a generous man, willing to service targets at the high end as well as the low end. (For example, see the female in question in BOTM Candidate #1).
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roissy, i was itching like a fucking crack head today…i needed my daily dose of “roissy truth/ hate.”
Now I am content. Pheww..
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please please please
don’t tell finefantastic that Luscious Jackson is dead.
she’ll never forgive herself for missing the boat lol
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Orwellian double speak –> Slut = good. being fathful to one’s husband = bad.
Roissy has it right, marry a slut and expect to be cheated on…and on…
A co-worker just got divorced last year…He was stunned when she served him papers. He paid for her education and she cheats on him with one of her college classmates. He is so beta…can not even muster anger at his wife.
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Here’s a question: is it beta to sleep with a woman you know to be married?
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When I first found Roissy’s blog and really tried to absorb everything, it definitely pained me quite a bit to come to terms with these ugly truths. This blog you linked is like the abyss of ugly truths, a cthulian horror to grotesque to look at. Even desensitized and awakened just from reading Roissy, I can’t bring myself to look through this awful blog.
“In a woman’s eyes, to be a beta male is worse than anything else. Even serial killer.” scary, but fucking true.
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“I am a sexual person – -I like to get fucked and I like to do the fucking. This doesn’t make me less of a mother, less of a wife, less brilliant, less beautiful, less desirable, less powerful, less awesome, less of a feminist, less good, less pure or less worthy.”
…
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Again, the laws are the biggest factor in what makes a husband a Beta.
The woman has the power of the STATE behind her. She knows this, as does the husband. The husband accepts a Beta life because he knows that the alternative is financial and emotional ruin through rigged divorce laws.
So many Beta husbands know that they are being mistreated, and are seething in resentment as a result. But they bear it, because they know that they are second-class spouses under the law. They are subjected to a 21st century version of Jim Crow.
NO MARRIAGE WITHOUT :
1) Properly done pre-nup with lawyers on both sides
2) The woman earns close to what you do
3) You have Game. Never think you can afford to drop out of Game.
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Someone should track the bitch down and send her husband her blog’s url. If I found the guy I’d tell him to keep his mouth shut, get a lawyer and prepare for all hell to break loose.
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I nominate that male douchebag commenter that used the word “womyn” as beta of the month.
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Reminds me of that slut I met the other night, who got into an argument that her triple penetration *was not* a gang bang.
also reminds me of the great chappelle show clip :
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/chappelles-show-chappelles-show-real-sex-street-interview/1683271903
Women, the only people telling you men like skanky women are lesbians trying to drive a wedge between you and men.
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The husband accepts a Beta life because he knows that the alternative is financial and emotional ruin through rigged divorce laws
But being a Beta is exactly what drives wife to seek the power of the state against her husband. Being an Alpha (but without infidelity) is gonna keep her good.
It’s like being in front of a big dog or a bully: show fear, they’ll attack. Show strength, they’ll respect.
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Firepower–My ability to morph from a 30 year old living at home because she is unemployed to a 43 year old wife cheating on her husband and secretly blogging about it to “Arnie”, the sadsack male in his 40s is truly miraculous.
I am even impressed by myself!!
Its must be because I am a Jew. Our mystical powers led us morph into all sorts of different things just like Borat said!!
SHAPESHifters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Often it is. Married women usually take the initiative in affairs. If I read Roissy correctly, the alpha chooses the woman, not the other way around.
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Being a dad usually makes a guy a beta. Showing love for one’s children can enrage women on two levels:
1. They feel that they are not getting enough attention
2. They instinctively despise men who soften and show affection toward their children
Marriage and family simply makes men betas. It’s almost impossible to avoid unless you have a heart of cold-forged steel.
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kassyk, you put the transformers to shame!!! can you morph into a big screen tv next? i need one. thanks! love T
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> Marriage and family simply makes men betas. It’s almost impossible to avoid unless you have a heart of cold-forged steel.
Sure you can. Going from “leader of men” to “leader of family” is not too hard of a stretch.
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Think “father knows best”, “you WILL be home by your curfew” and “you did a good job kicking ass in the karate tournament. I’m going to give take you to DisneyWorld like I promised”.
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“But being a Beta is exactly what drives wife to seek the power of the state against her husband. Being an Alpha (but without infidelity) is gonna keep her good.”
Agreed, but very hard to execute. Not everyone can be a Ronald Reagan or John McCain. I suspect even Arnold Schwarzenegger is under the control of his wife.
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Welmer They instinctively despise men who soften and show affection toward their children
What in the hell??? for the love of christ, please tell me your pulling my leg?
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Errant Wife: escapism bullshiite written by a gay man. Wise up guys. Curse words like asshat and fucktard are gay tells. The reclaiming of the word “slut” is a charming idea, but this guy can’t write well enough to pull it off, in the same way Elton John ruined the reclaiming of the word Diva by participating in those concerts some years ago.
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Marriage and family simply makes men betas. It’s almost impossible to avoid unless you have a heart of cold-forged steel.
Obviously not true, since men have been marrying and fathering children for thousands of years without becoming betas. Heck, there are plenty of places on Earth right now where men can be husbands and fathers without being betas (i.e. places where liberalism and its associated laws and customs do not prevail).
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Guys–
Finefantastic, KassyK, Paperdreamer, Bhetti, LilGrl (so far, she’s new) … these are all fine fun girls who are generally down with Roissy’s pealing away of the pretty lies of the dating world. (There are others but these are around and are coming to mind at the moment.)
They also definitely brighten up this joint.
Not suggesting worshipful ass kissin’, just sayin … they’re far from the enemy.
As most of you know. The alphas anyway. And some of the aspirants.
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“She’s 43 and only now looking for marriage. What a trend setter and pioneer.”
Feminists are so stupid. They see a 43-year-old male colleague or brother/cousin date 28 year old women, and simply assume that they, as 43-year-old women, can similarly get 28 yo men.
They totally forgot that men and women are different. Feminism robbed them of a basic education on biology and male/female dynamics.
Feminism became their GrandMa.
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“Errant Wife: escapism bullshiite written by a gay man. Wise up guys. Curse words like asshat and fucktard are gay tells. ”
I might be inclined to agree. But it also could be a lonely, bitter feminist (who is not the woman in the photos) seeking escapism.
I certainly agree that words like ‘fucktard’ and ‘cocksucker’ will not be used by a mother of 3 small children.
She never talks about her kids on her blog (to the extent that I could tell). That, too, is a giveaway.
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You’d think so, but officers in the military get slammed with divorce all the time:
In 2004, a total of 3,325 Army officers saw their marriages end in divorce, 6 percent of all marriages among officers, according to the Defense Manpower Data Center, the Pentagon’s statistics-gathering arm.
6% per year!? That’s even worse than I thought.
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Damn! What a whore!
Lol, I would someone marry such a whore? I only pitty her children because here, “son of a bitch” is indeed a very usual thing to say. Also, a very painfull and offensive one if it has any paralel to reality.
Wow, what a whore!
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“The reclaiming of the word “slut” is a charming idea, but this guy can’t write well enough to pull it off, in the same way Elton John ruined the reclaiming of the word Diva by participating in those concerts some years ago.”
—reclaiming a word is a false illusion. There is no such thing, its made up by liberal academics as some sort of method of destroying things that hurt them, but only succeeds in making them sound like crass, unthinking, immature children.
For example, people tried to apologize for rappers saying nigger by claiming it was reclaiming, when really it was a bunch of immature kids using dirty language.
Were it really reclaimed, white people could call blacks nigger and not hurt their feelings. Guess what? Still a dirty word.
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Your parenthetical remark is really the key here. We’re talking about the US, not Afghanistan.
BTW, I wonder what people here think of the Afghan “Rape Law” (as it’s described by feminists)?
Evidently, it states that women must have sex with their husbands at least once every four days if he wants it (and she isn’t sick or physically harmed by it somehow). If they refuse, they are committing an offense. Men have an obligation, too: they have to give it up for their wives at least once every four months (if she isn’t too fat).
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Welmer:
> You’d think so, but officers in the military get slammed with divorce all the time
True… but there are “extenuating” circumstances where the guys are away from their families for months and years at a stretch. That’s going to take a toll vs civilians who are around, making sure Junior grows up right. I think a civilian man with military bearing who was, say, an accountant, construction worker or doctor probably won’t have as much of a problem, ceteris paribus.
That being said, it is *highly* dishonorable to divorce your husband simply because he’s risking his life for his country overseas and separated from his children by war’s cruel distance. Wait, what?
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That’s my experience, but maybe I just married a serious bitch.
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Women who post here brighten up shit. They add the sprinkles on the cupcake of evil, baked and served with love by roissy.
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This is the response I posted over at this woman’s blog:
Ha, wow… looks like someone feels a bit threatened? Maybe it’s because Roissy openly encourages men to avoid ball-busting, cuckolding, overbearing, narcissistic, nag wives like you. Frankly, he makes a good point in his response that our society allows women to get away with behavior like yours, because women have the power of the state behind them in the form of very one-sided, punitive divorce laws.
I don’t know you or your situation, really, and have only perused through a few of your posts. But you actually prove many of Roissy’s sharp observations about the state of modern women, and it’s not pretty.
Maybe if your husband had been able to read Roissy’s blog before he married you (gave his income, effort, and balls to you), he would have seen what you were much earlier. Or at least planned ahead a little bit better, so he wouldn’t be trapped in a marriage with an awful awful human being like yourself.
And you, meanwhile, might not be supported and taken care of by him, and would have to spend some of your time working to make ends meet, instead of spending all your time on your back.
But I’m guessing you would find it pretty easy to kill two birds with one stone.
And to those of you defending this woman… saying she is ‘classy’ and is a super-liberated-blabla woman…
She cheats on her husband and revels in it! I’m sure all you lovely grrrl-power feminists would be ok reading a blog by a guy who cheats on his loving, devoted wife and rationalizes and excuses it all away with self-empowerment claptrap and sheer ego.
I’m a well-educated guy, socially successful, with a good job. I’ve travelled lived abroad, been open to different types of people and cultural perspectives, can hold witty conversations, and have had healthy (and some not-so-healthy) relationships with women. There are women I respect, men I respect, women I don’t respect, and men I don’t respect. I can see all the sides of the arguments, I can agree with a liberal or a conservative or an apolitical guy who just wants to have fun. I may be a bit insecure, certainly am not a premature ejaculator, and will likely never sleep with any supermodels or be involved in any debauched orgies.
Roissy writes plenty of disagreeable stuff, but he makes the point of his blog pretty clear: It’s where pretty lies perish. There are a lot of sacred cows in our society, on the right and left, the coasts and the heartland, with men and women, and he generally has a knack for discovering and truly understanding those sacred cows. So they can be exposed and sacrificed. Frankly, I think historians looking back at the downfall of western civilization will read Roissy’s blog and yours and say, ‘ohhhh… so that’s what happened.’
The fact is, he speaks truth. And sadly, you do too in your own way. You prove to ordinary, good, honest people like me that the things Roissy writes are invariably true. That feminism has become a sham system used to entrap and subjugate men so women like you can take their money and their productive output, and then use it on frivolity and promiscuity. That marriage has become a losing proposition for men, because there is a fair chance that the lovely young woman you marry could very well end up the cheating, lying, self-centered monster that you have clearly become. And there would be little recourse for you then, gentlemen. Roissy has deftly shown to me and others that until a sea-change occurs, and men wake up to the shaft that they are getting every day from modern western women, (not all. But we have certainly reached, and passed, the tipping point) there is no recourse but to game them. To be cold. To be calculating. To be self-centered. To be unrepentant.
In effect, men must be what you and your ilk have become.
God help us all.
-the insurance.
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” they have to give it up for their wives at least once every four months”
–that’s from Muhammed’s time, really old law. I think it had somethign to do with making sure she was always pregnant and therefore unable to cheat on him and force him to raise another’s child; 4 months was the best estimate on whether she was showing or not.
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Thanks for bringing that blog to our attention Roissy – lot of good reading material in there! 😉 What a train-wreck!
I like this entry especially, where she sobs about how some guy she had an affair with wasn’t touchy feely after sex:
“He was on his side of the bed and I was on mine and I definitely felt a line down the middle. I needed more: I needed cuddling and touching. I needed a physical reinforcement of all the words he had been throwing my way. I wanted what had been pledged. And it wasn’t there. After we had had our way with each other a couple of times I really don’t think he put a hand on me except to kiss me goodbye in the morning – and, although I did not initiate that, you kinda have to at least throw a girl that bone.
We slept on opposite sides – I don’t think he came anywhere near me all night – I know he didn’t come near my [sic] all night. And then he looked over my shoulder in the morning, saw the clock, got up and got in the shower.
I don’t think I am mistaking it that I won’t be hearing from him again. I wonder what I did, what it is about me that managed to drive him away within 3 hours…I ache from wondering what it was…”
http://yourerrantwife.blogspot.com/2009/01/and-then-he-made-me-cry.html
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Richard Branson And A Naked Denni Parkinson (NSFW PHOTOS)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/21/richard-branson-and-a-nak_n_189643.html
New pictures are online of Richard Branson cavorting around his private island Necker with a naked supermodel.
Branson was posing for photographer Stephane Gautronneau when he asked Branson if model Denni Parkinson, Gautronneau’s girlfriend who was present at the time, could get in some pictures.
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That bitch doesnt know it, but she epitomizes everything that Roissy writes about.
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Yeah, no doubt. Isn’t it ironic that our guys are risking their lives in desolate Afghanistan to “liberate” Afghan women even as their wives are whoring around back home and divorcing them in record numbers?
Kind of a sad what that reveals, isn’t it?
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what part of that are marriages between army members? I expect that any girl in the army will be as masculine as Lara Croft. So it works like that: guy in the amry, doesn’t see many chicks, is not a high earner, marries a girl from the army by mutual lack of alternatives. Beta heading to divorce.
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The 6% is only for officers. It’s even higher for enlisted (which I assume is what you’re thinking of). Officers are prohibited, as far as I know, from screwing enlistees, and quite a number of female officers are dykes. Therefore, the great majority of officers marry civilians.
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“Although Miss Proudly Polyamorous Cumfunneler wisely blocked out her face, judging by the half-naked pics of herself on her blog, she looks potentially attractive. Late 30s?”
She’s either 30 or 31, judging by this entry from August of 2008 (and assuming she’s being truthful):
“His date of birth makes him two weeks past 21, which makes him nine years younger than me.”
http://yourerrantwife.blogspot.com/2008/08/jailbait.html
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691
I looked at two of her videos. She does not look like a bad type. Does not seem delusional. Given that she is Christian (and that is important to her) she is likely not a slut. She is just a 42 year old woman looking for a man.
I prefer to mock people for their awfulness not for their decency (even if they seem “uncool”).
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welmer That’s my experience, but maybe I just married a serious bitch.
You did. If what you say about her is true, then she has serious self-esteem and attachment issues. Was she the type who always needed to be the center of attention?
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I would add:
4) Making sure you get to know her family intimately…pay special attention to her relationship with her Father, and the relationship between her Mother and Father (who wears the pants; does he have game?)
5) Is she a single mother? Find another…
6) Was she raised by a single mother? Find another…(exception: a widow that raised her children to love and respect the memory of their Father, and didn’t bring an endless parade of boyfriends into their lives).
Women raised in intact, nuclear families with a Patriarchal Father-Figures are by far the most likely women to be faithful…not only were they raised in the environment of a properly gender balanced home, where the masculine is just as valued and respected as the feminine, but she will have learned by her own families examples that being a family takes work, commitment, and that you don’t just run away and cash out on your husband when the going gets tough.
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dougjnn
Agreed. So who said they were the enemy?
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KassyK
Actually I think this is your alter ego:
http://blonderthanyou.wordpress.com/
Don’t deny it. The game is up. Your cover is [ahem] blown.
😉
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She was very vain, so I suppose so. Used to be a cheerleader and all that. Was the majorette for the all-city band, too. I guess she really did like the attention.
In retrospect, we were a lousy match — but we sure looked good together for a while.
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Chic Noir
I think the bonding thing will up oxytocin [too lazy to check the spelling] in both men and women. It may also lower testosterone. So the effect would be to neuter the man, making him seem less Alpha.
There is also a theory that female-child bonding lasts about four years and then she will start to get mate-hungry again.
[cannot remember more details than that]
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John C. – Errant Wife: escapism bullshiite written by a gay man. Wise up guys. Curse words like asshat and fucktard are gay tells.
Yeah, that’s a good theory too. Either way it seems like internet fiction writing to me.
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PA
Being alpha with a woman definitely helps but I really don’t think it’s any guarantee in this culture of ours with these laws of ours. Look at Hollywood. Look at Hulk Hogan.
Highly sexual people do crave variety after awhile, including women. Women may not so much for a few years after falling really in lust/ adoring love, but after that it depends, and not by any means all on her husband.
As well our culture tells them in movie after movie that they deserve to grab for a new sexual tryst outside their marriage, or anyway certainly aren’t evil (and are really probably a much hotter and more interesting women) if they go for it.
I think opening up marriages after a period of years, with rules (mostly revolving around each partner’s having clear veto rights that are certainly going to get exercised if any strong emotional attachments start developing) can sometimes be a solution that can make marriages of many years standing stronger — i.e. renewed.
But it’s also dangerous. Far more on the female side I think. It’s especially dangerous if the woman in question is the type that can’t separate sex and love at all. Then it’s too dangerous to do, or anyway to do on a bilateral basis.
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“That’s because a cuckold failed miserably at one or both of these:
1) Marrying a woman with a good character — happens to many Alphas, especially celebrity male alphas, who can get any woman they want but can’t see past their hotness. See OJ”
Fuck you PA. Just fuck you.
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Dave from Hawaii said–
More DfH gold.
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I came across a post just like (or maybe even worse than) this on collegecandy – http://collegecandy.com/2008/06/22/i-slut-girl-on-girl-name-calling/. I decided to rein in my anger and instead attack with a reply built of cold logic. Still, it hurt a little more because she’s not even out of school yet.
Obviously this is due in part to the fact that the blogosphere didn’t exist over a decade ago, but it seems to me like the gender wars are starting to get big these days. It started with the PUA backlash to feminism, then the blogs started lighting up, and now with evolutionary psychology it’s even starting to spill onto the frontpage of American consciousness. It’s certainly an interesting time to be alive.
However, even at this early stage, the modern “liberated slut” movement is starting to look a lot like the war on drugs. It’s going to get worse before it gets better, doubtless, but anyone doing more than an eyedropper’s worth of reading on the matter can see that the PUA/gender traditionalist (what’s a better name?) community is by far more intelligent, articulate, and rational than the…well, I can’t think of a better “case in point” than the woman Roissy just eviscerated. Not that intelligence/articulation/ration counts these days – it’s just worth noting. Keep up the good work.
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Dave From Hawaii, those are damn good points although my default position is that no American woman is worth marrying anyway.
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Welmer–
Yes, but right now Hollywood is working on a movie that takes direct aim and shames this all too common American military wife behavior.
Yeah RIGHT.
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Some of us would greatly appreciate a list as to where a man can have a reasonable standard of living (i.e. not third world) AND get great women who aren’t ruined. Much thanks.
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Default User–
Not the female child bond but the female bond for her mate.
That’s what Michelle Langley who wrote Female Infidelity cites. I don’t think it’s original to her. Evo psych theory probably.
I had this partly in mind when I wrote above in a comment addressed to PA:
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“Yes, but right now Hollywood is working on a movie that takes direct aim and shames this all too common American military wife behavior.”
Jarhead came pretty close.
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I can only say that I recently met an old high school friend of mine who is the penultimate geeky beta type. I like him, but American girls sure didn’t.
He went and got himself a well-educated Polish girl, who happens to be HOT! She was also a very nice young lady (as far as I could tell).
I think some hardcore Catholic European girls might be OK, or possibly some Orthodox ones from the east. I’ve thought about a trip to Belfast. Irish girls are often not that good looking (Ireland is one of those countries where men are better looking than women — it’s the hard features I think), but the ones in Ulster aren’t all that bad.
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Default User–Haha…she is great. I met her last year in real life–she is a cool cucumber. Liked her a lot. And surprisingly a lot shyer than I expected from reading her blog but still very sweet and very blonde (in a good way).
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That’s not a bad default position to have. Where my wife to divorce me (or I her), or were she to die, I can say I would never, ever get married again.
And that is not a reflection of her or what kind of wife she is, just that my eyes have been opened up to the whole truth of what the institution of marriage under the feminized West has become.
My observations regarding her familial situation and relationship with her Father and the relationship between her Father and Mother are all based on retrospect gained from the insights on relationships that I gleaned from Game and how it applied to my in-laws.
In other words, I’m extremely fortunate that when I was young, ignorant and didn’t know any better, I stumbled into marriage with a woman who fits all of those traits that Tood listed and the ones I added on.
Had I not, surely I’d be divorced by now.
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Fabian:
these things are a tradeoff of course. i’m from texas and currently live in the midwest. i think both offer the best opportunities for a good balance between sexual openness, wholesomeness, and traditionalism.
the closer you get to the coasts, the higher the average number of sex partners for women and the stiffer the competition from men. the more you go inland though, the harder it is to get in their pants. in the short-term, the coasts and big cities are better, but in the long-run you gotta go to the heartland.
the problem with less competition and less promiscuous women is the fact that they tend to let themselves go more. its no coincidence that fatter chicks live in the south and midwest.
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DfM,
What would you say about a woman who’s parents are divorced, the father has game (to an extent), and the mother is sort of a well intention yet walked over by her kids? She has respect for her father but almost none for her mother.
Thoughts?
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Willard Libby
Not to me. It’s like a lot of female sex blogs. Sure it may be a bit enhanced and is certainly selective.
There is this female sex blogging phenomenon of exploit exhibitionism. In other words writing about cheating or slutting, or higher end hooking before an audience of approving fans / commenters helps generate it’s own incentives to push the “exploits” further and make them more frequent than they might do if they weren’t blogging about it. Blogging fodder becomes part of the motivation for “sexual transgressions” or female “daring do”.
I’ve long noticed that this is a real and potent phenomenon. It bears comparisons to strippers being highly sexualized by the exhibitionism, they’re paid to do, but then often highly enjoy doing.
Related no doubt to my affection for certain kinds of sluts and fuck buddies, I’ve sometimes had periods of enjoying reading some such blogs. It’s never fun to think of yourself as the cheated upon husband though, if that’s what the sex blogger in question is doing.
This particular woman is especially self centered and heedless about her husband. Her two bit feminist self justification without even a hint of concern about some kind of reciprocity is highly unattractive. Hers is not the kind of blog that I find at all enjoyable. It holds a bit of interest though in the depths of the self-centeredness it reveals.
Of course feminism generally encourages (“empowers”) just that in American women, with “great” success.
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Thoughts? Given the risks of today’s divorce court industry, even one or two red flags should be enough to keep a man from putting himself at risk of being subjected to it.
The only reason a man should get married is so he can have children and try to raise them in the best possible environment for those kids as possible.
Why would you want to make a home with a person that comes from a broken home?
They don’t know HOW to make a home work, because the only thing they know, is how to break one!
There are always exceptions to every rule, of course…but statistically speaking, if you want to get married, you need to find a women who is LEAST likely to break the home you make with her.
Given the heavy financial and emotional costs that divorce imposes on ex-husbands and alienated, non-custodial fathers, you really should try to ensure that you are entering into a marriage with the best statistical chance of success.
And if you don’t want kids? Than there should be no reason whatsoever…NONE, for getting married.
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TOOD has a great point in his thoughts on this subject, observations that Ive had personally. First his:
“The woman has the power of the STATE behind her. She knows this, as does the husband. The husband accepts a Beta life because he knows that the alternative is financial and emotional ruin through rigged divorce laws.
So many Beta husbands know that they are being mistreated, and are seething in resentment as a result. But they bear it, because they know that they are second-class spouses under the law. They are subjected to a 21st century version of Jim Crow.
NO MARRIAGE WITHOUT :
1) Properly done pre-nup with lawyers on both sides
2) The woman earns close to what you do
3) You have Game. Never think you can afford to drop out of Game.”
………………In one woman’s post on that site whom Roissy rightly skewered, she described cheating here:
“Normal and profoundly unsatisfying life. Three beautiful children and a husband who pays the bills and ignores everything and anything I say to him. 10 years of marriage during which I guarantee my opinion has never mattered – I try and try to tell him what I need from the relationship, he agrees and sees my side of EVERYTHING, and yet, there are no changes.
I am talking to the wall.”——Im sure this man eagerly makes love to his wife, and does everything she tells him to do PRECISELY, she just ‘makes up’ reasons to be displeased with him (as Roissy noted, he doesn’t excite her)
………………If our laws were what they should be, and she lost all her kids to him if caught cheating and had to pay HIM child support for doing it, she’d not feel like that. Actually if he was not arrested and would lose his job for beating her within an inch of her life if he caught her cheating, it wouldn’t happen either.
Her demands of being kept “excited all the time” are the demands of a spoiled child. You can never fully please a spoiled child. Our legal system and academia spoils women to the notion that their lives are supposed to be carefree guiltless theme parks of joy and pleasure. Meanwhile we tell men to go make and living and pay for all of it, and to do it with panache and to be exciting and charming while doing it.
TWO PREDICTIONS FOR 10-15 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.
1) Big uptick in female suicides for the 50+ group. These will be childless cougars who are no longer attractive to men, but have no family that cares for them. They will rightly realize those nephews and neices think they are pathetic and that they are no longer wanted at their office-girl jobs for newer, younger models. Being unsexy to men at that age………………………….leaves only one real option.
2)Lawsuits from former-ho-grandmothers demanding to see their grandchildren. Four of my buddies-right off the top of my head–saw their wives leave them for other men. Only two of these women are are still married to their paramours, and one one of those is a very rocky relationship. The kids in these cases all know what mom did, and only a couple seem even vauguely loyal to mom at all. In fact two of these kids in particular have told their dads that after their 18th birthday, they never intend to even speak or physically see their mothers again. One of these is a girl. These kids know that mom basically decided that she loved herself more than her family. These women, pampered as all get out, will childishly decide to go to court (that place where all good things spring forth for them like a play area at a McDonald’s to three-year-olds) to MAKE her own children validate her in later years. I already see this coming.
As Ive stated before on this blog…………………our fucked up divorce/alimony/child support laws are ripping the family unit completely apart in the secularized West. If you overindulge one party legally as we have with women, you SPOIL them with a profound sense of over-entitlement. If the laws were completely reversed and over-favored men, a good portion of the males would probably be cheating on their wives almost as bad. Our laws are out-of-kilter and need to be righted if the institution of marriage is to survive. If marriage does NOT survive in the secularized West, the life of the white underlcass in northern England, with its profound violence and gang culture and ugliness, will become the norm here, and this nation will descend relative to other nations in earnest. We are wrecking our kids, what few kids we are having, and damaging them psychologically and emotionally as evolution has decreed it takes a mother and a father to raise a human child. We are not bears in the woods, but the highest ape that there is, with profound emotional needs unlike some shark in the ocean. A whore-mother who leaves her husband doesn’t want to think about what she is doing to the kids and childishly dismisses it and when it manifesta itself in their behavior and bad life choices later, she will simply blame their father. Downward mobility personified.
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SparkWords–
Well it did portray it.
But it was more in a resigned, that’s just the way it is these days, kind of way.
There wasn’t much emotional propaganda against it aimed at women in Jarhead in other words.
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dougjnn
You are right. I was not very clear in my post. My guess the four years relates to the child been somewhat free of the need for maternal care.
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There is no place where a guy can get married and not run substantial risk of a woman screwing around constantly. Women find it “hot” and face no real social consequence for infidelity.
However, all this will do is produce a marriage refusal. Women are looking at single motherhood, even if they WANT marriage. Because too many men will simply not be able to trust them. It’s like currency, once debased by too many counterfeits it becomes worthless.
Which means all women will get is assholes. Period. No guy is going to commit to a woman and love her if she’s likely to be sleeping around. Men demand exclusivity and demand relatively few sex partners.
Because men will kill over having to “share” women. Period. This has been a feature of Western Culture since well, the Iliad. Circa 1200 BC or so. It’s that old.
Supposing the blog is real, what will happen is eventually an ugly divorce, kids not respecting her or having much affection for her, being old and ugly and alone. Her “passionate affairs” will not matter much. [I tend to believe the blog is real, it matches in tone what Barbara Ehrenreich and other feminist liberals write constantly, including “passionate affairs.”]
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It’s an old trope that a military wife is a cheating wife. It’s just obscured by the reverse—the faithful Jenny waiting at home for Johnny.
Many military men also have an innate desire to save a “fallen” woman, and are also away from home for the first time and dealing with the stress of a hard, male life. Many fall for strippers/easy gals/hookers and try to save them by imposing the order of the miliarty wife on them, and it grants them some semblance of feminine softness missing.
The lucky ones get Dear John letters. The sadder ones get kids who look black.
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My darling Whiskey said it matches in tone what Barbara Ehrenreich and other feminist liberals write constantly, including “passionate affairs.”]
Nickel and Dimed Barbara Ehrenreich ?
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z–
It would go WAY down, that’s for sure.
Hell it WAS way down compared to now 50 and 100 years ago, partly for these reasons.
Good post.
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Welmer–
Nah, I don’t think so. I’m childless, but I do have friends and brothers with kids of course.
Following feminist prescriptives on performing infant care and housework when the husband works more than full time but the wife doesn’t, however, isn’t going to help.
I think being a good and caring father to your kids almost always pulls wives towards their husbands rather than the reverse. It just isn’t enough to keep her nether regions wet.
Giving in to your wife all the time rather than being her rock, leading her, and smiling indulgently at her emotional storms, is the big problem.
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Sluts: As exemplified by roosh’s post here and the above woman’s almost wistful mention of monogamy and also being on antidepressants, having a lot of casual sex or relationships is usually either a symptom or a cause of Serious Psychological Damage. I don’t think over a certain amount of partners is the healthiest state for either gender; it isn’t all fun and games and has its costs.
Welmer: BTW, I wonder what people here think of the Afghan “Rape Law” (as it’s described by feminists)?
I’ve recently seen some thoughts on this: the mainstream Islamic wisdom is that God Is Angry with her but it’s never right to force her.
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Heh – I posted as “Anonymous” over there, and it got deleted.
In essence, I said:
Why are you so offended by Roissy’s post on how to identify a slut?
Your blog makes his point for him!
Men who want to get married and have kids need to carefully look at their potential wife to make sure she doesn’t turn out like YOU!
She let a bunch of other critical posts stay…but deleted mine.
Must’ve hit a nerve!
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Hey, apropos of Brimelow and Scruton, it’s more conservatives with hot chicks here. I’d say Pat Buckley was a solid 8 in her day. Scroll down though for a look at how hideous time can be to a beautiful women, and how trying to hold on too long by dressing and wearing inappropriate make up just makes things so much worse. Appalling.
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I don’t know man army guys all seem tall in shape. The woman are like mostly the hunchback of notre dame looking.
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“””””””Dave from Hawaii
Heh – I posted as “Anonymous” over there, and it got deleted.
In essence, I said:
Why are you so offended by Roissy’s post on how to identify a slut?
Your blog makes his point for him!
Men who want to get married and have kids need to carefully look at their potential wife to make sure she doesn’t turn out like YOU!
She let a bunch of other critical posts stay…but deleted mine.
Must’ve hit a nerve!””””””””””””
Womans blogs equal total lack of freedom of speech.
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Sending your fit, young men to fight wars that aren’t theirs seems like one of the biggest crimes the U.S. has done against itself. Someone give a real benefit from their efforts out there, please, because thinking that is just depressing.
Even the recession is linked to the war efforts, isn’t it?
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“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””JAM
Welmer:
> You’d think so, but officers in the military get slammed with divorce all the time
True… but there are “extenuating” circumstances where the guys are away from their families for months and years at a stretch. That’s going to take a toll vs civilians who are around, making sure Junior grows up right. I think a civilian man with military bearing who was, say, an accountant, construction worker or doctor probably won’t have as much of a problem, ceteris paribus.
That being said, it is *highly* dishonorable to divorce your husband simply because he’s risking his life for his country overseas and separated from his children by war’s cruel distance. Wait, what?””””””””””””””””””””””
Naa there is no excuse. I called my woman yesterday she was slurping drool on the phone thinking about me coming home in a month. She is cute when shes hot she get extra saliva flowing. Its a nice tell for me. He He He.
But yea if they want to make laws there should be serious consequences for leaving a man while he is away at war. That is some fucked up shit to deal with when all you have to look at over here is fucking sand. This place is like the most barren place on earth. The military guys are forced to stay here for a certain period of time. If a woman leaves them she should get nothing.
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KassyK
Interesting. Suicide_blond shy, who would have thought it. Maybe I should change my user name to “Super Cool Alpha.”
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Why is some asshole called “Default User” posting with my avatar?
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It is not an honor for fit young men to go to war and have a woman back home fucking around.
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Gunslingergregi
Wasn’t there a post here about women giving white feathers to me who were not on the front line?
Maybe something similar for the cheating spouses.
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Woman back home should wear as a badge of honor that they have a man who went to war and is willing to die for his country. They should be backing him up as there part of the deal. Instead what is happening is you have these asian woman who are harnessed with backing up men in a warzone for there emotional needs becuase the american woman have failed. That is why I look at asian woman as godess. They are the real fucking deal.
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And what a lot of the woman back home are doing is taking taking taking not giving shit. And the asian woman are giving giving giving. Really it is an amazing scene to behold.
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This comment is pretty amazing:
“segregated arbitrarily into two versions for the two genders society perceives. i’ve met a lot of amazing womyn in my four years of college but it’s so rare to find a powerful gem like you so far from a place like a university or community center. i could hug you!”
If there is one thing Errant is not, it’s a bra-burning feminist who believes that gender is an artificial social construct… The comment reads like someone interrupting a conversation to announce to the world just how weird s/he is.
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sparks:
I don’t know, Roissy. This was an amusing post, but I feel like you’re going after low-hanging fruit.
sometimes a guy just wants to kick back and slum it.
the commenter formerly known as default user:
Maybe I should change my user name to “Super Cool Alpha.”
not bad. the best user name i ever read on this blog was “Herb Dregs”.
mr. herb dregs, if you’re reading this, i salute you.
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Actually wives with babies/small children often use it as an excuse to foist the work onto the man so they can do what they really want:
Read the whole thing — it’s appalling.
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KassyK WILL morph…into a trophy wife.
Of a lawya or docta. more likely me, when she sees my pic.
chic noir: honestly – your pic – wtf is up with it??
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It sounds like the Errant Wife’s husband has made some very serious mistakes (e.g. being beta, not fucking his wife hard enough, blah bah, whatever). But his most serious mistake was choosing this bitch to be the mother of his children. She sounds like a terrible, terrible mother.
A word to that whore, if she’s reading this: for the sake of your children, you should seriously consider a divorce. It might be much more damaging for your children to be raised by parents in a disastrous–but still legally intact–marriage than to be raised by a divorcee.
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I told him, as gently as I could, which surely was not. I spewed statistics to him, and I told him my conclusion that one person needs to be on the not-fast-track and I don’t want it to be me.
Why didn’t she just hire a nanny? it ain’t that serious.
firepower chic noir: honestly – your pic – wtf is up with it??
I don’t understand.
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@KDG
“The comment reads like someone interrupting a conversation to announce to the world just how weird s/he is.”
Hahaha…I agree.
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Suicide Blond is a very fun writer. Just a consummate tease.
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Watch out — those Asian women are good at math, and one of these days they’ll even the score.
A lawyer friend married a Taiwanese woman, and even though he works his ass off to keep his practice afloat, she still demands he do the shopping, cook, drive his daughter to school, etc. And despite the fact that she’s got a JD and only works part-time at a grade school, she refuses to help him with the legal work.
But I will give her credit for one thing: she sure knows how to balance a checkbook.
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cali A word to that whore, if she’s reading this: for the sake of your children, you should seriously consider a divorce. It might be much more damaging for your children to be raised by parents in a disastrous–but still legally intact–marriage than to be raised by a divorcee
James o Fifty years ago, a man could support a family, and his wife didn’t hold a legal mallet over his head. And so he did, on average, have plenty of kids.
Or she can just grow up and try to be a better wife for her husband and kids. If she wanted to play Samantha she should have stayed single. We don’t always get what we want. Why are there so many adults in this world who can’t get over that simple fact.*
From what I’ve read here, she is one of the worst types of non violent humans. An attention whore(waves at DA). I swear I hate those types. Everything must always be about them and when it isn’t, it’s someone else’s fault. That type of woman/man needs some pills, good psychiatrist, and grow the hell up.
* the men who post here who are bitter about not getting a 10, this applies to you too.
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Welmer said:
They instinctively despise men who soften and show affection toward their children
chicnoir
What in the hell??? for the love of christ, please tell me your pulling my leg?
Welmer:
That’s my experience, but maybe I just married a serious bitch.
I think it more likely that simple jealousy is to blame. Jealousy may not be a big vice for men, but jealousy is a major vice for many women.
She could be jealous for two reasons:
1.You love the children more than her.
2.Your children love YOU more than HER.
Number 2 would probably really set a woman prone to jealousy off. Because, as a woman, she has like child-rearing in her DNA. The husband is just a MAN. How could they care for him more?
I talked to one woman who was failed in her ‘teacher-internship’ because, according to her, the class loved her more than the ‘real’ teacher. Never underestimate the crazed jealousy of many women.
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“”””””””””””””””””Welmer
Gunslingergregi
And what a lot of the woman back home are doing is taking taking taking not giving shit. And the asian woman are giving giving giving. Really it is an amazing scene to behold.
Watch out — those Asian women are good at math, and one of these days they’ll even the score.
A lawyer friend married a Taiwanese woman, and even though he works his ass off to keep his practice afloat, she still demands he do the shopping, cook, drive his daughter to school, etc. And despite the fact that she’s got a JD and only works part-time at a grade school, she refuses to help him with the legal work.
But I will give her credit for one thing: she sure knows how to balance a checkbook.””””””””””””””””
With their giving though hey the guys are making them rich. 🙂 because the guys are then giving based on wanting to not being told to.
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Z, Tood:
here is the life cycle of a relationship from a woman’s POV:
Mutual infatuation/feelings of being in love leading to feelings of co-dependency and longing to be with the other person
When those feelings begin to wane in both, the woman starts feeling unloved because she has bought into all of the fairy tales told to her while growing up. She has an idea that love is static and that the energy of a relationship is always full throttle. time and resource constraints make this impossible.
When she realizes the reality, she’s angry and bitter, and she takes it out on the only “thing” she can: her husband. Sometimes the children, if there are any, bear the brunt of it. The bad thing, from the husband’s POV, is that it isn’t his fault: it’s society’s fault and that of her parents and the parents of every young girl, but they are anonymous and therefore receive none of the woman’s wrath.
She uses these feelings of anger and bitterness to justify the rift she allows to come between her and her husband as well as her attraction to other men. She also uses the scapegoat of an “unfulfilling sex life” as an excuse.
Women and men don’t go into a relationship realizing the safety nets that women have going for them, but after a certain time, when a woman is on the fence about making the leap towards infidelity, which usually leads to a bitter marriage and divorce, she can’t help but realize that she doesn’t need her husband around the house. Part of his income will come her way, and if things get really bad, the government will help out.
There are many helping hands along the way for a woman to cope both emotionally and financially through her marriage’s life cycle. It’s kind of like playing “Monopoly” and continually drawing Community Chest cards along the way. The woman doesn’t count on the help, but it is magically available to help spur her along her path.
So I don’t believe that a husband chooses a Beta Life because he knows the courts and laws are de facto against him. A husband chooses a beta life because of societal compromises.
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Doug — Being alpha with a woman definitely helps but I really don’t think it’s any guarantee in this culture of ours with these laws of ours. Look at Hollywood. Look at Hulk Hogan.
There are no guarantees but these general principles stack the odds in your favor:
1) Marry a girl who is over yout attractiveness threshold (ie, the thought of kissing her and seeing her naked arouses you when you first meet her, and your dick stiffens when you start flirting) but with the best character possible.
Dave made good points on how to get a sense for her character. Thursday also has good things to say about girls from religious communities.
2) Marry a girl who loves you (or adores you, as you had nicely put it before.) Seems a no-brainer, but so many guys marry girls who want a provider-beta or because they feel their clock ticking and the dude seems “good enough.”
Don’t be that dude. Be the one she had always dreamed about. How: by being an Alpha.
3) Keep her in love wiht you thru LTR Game. Which becomes second nature. Again, Dave has written lots on the specifics of this one. Plus Roissy’s excellent 16 Commandments of Poon minus the adultery.
Maybe my point of view is incomplete, but I’d say that virtually all divorces in America would have been avoided if 1, 2, and 3 above were excercised.
I wonder if The Hulkster had failed at one or more of the three principles above.
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dougjnn: Suicide Blond is a very fun writer. Just a consummate tease.
You must see so much of yourself in her 😉
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lol erent wifes blog is pink like shes girly and then her mouth spews forth the obsenaties lol
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“””””””””””””Yes, I talk about it – but I also talk about my kids, my school, my job, my house – all of these things are part of me but not one of them defines me.””””””””””””””
This is the problem when this is all a woman can offer a man.
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A fucking house I am disgusted by the men that get houses they can’t afford because they listen to the woman.
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welmer, those block quotes have gotten the best of many a commenter 🙂
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“”””””””””Crystal said…
Too many men cannot handle that they are not God’s gift in the sack to a woman so they are desperate to find the virginal queen who will not know the difference and if perhaps they find one then complained and cheat on her because she has no experience and has a low sex drive.
Great post and yeah most of them are of the small and short lasting variety.
Crystal”””””””””””””””””””””
Ahh the insults.
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Yup 🙂
I’m getting tired. Had to get up at an unearthly hour this morning, so I’m getting sloppy.
BTW, sometimes I get a bit garrulous when I’m tired, and I was just thinking about something. I was thinking that a lot of women come to this blog because they’re curious about what men want. Is that true? If so, what do women think really keeps men coming back for more?
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“I think most guys are happy with “gets me off consistently and treats me right.””
One problem in these discussions we have about slutty/discontented wives and LT girlfriends is that us guys pretend we are sitting by, completely content with our relationship.
Guys get annoyed with their women. We fantasize about other women and many guys cheat on them. We’re painting the picture of a doting beta husband married to a harlot with two young children.
Our fantasies and desire to find something else will impact our attitude toward our current woman. I’m gonna say that this is a two way street. If we want to operate within the confines of society, a society that upholds monogomy for *both* sexes, then we have to realize we have just as many faults as women in these issues.
On the other hand, if you want to argue that we shouldn’t sacrifice our naturally polygamous ways for society’s sake, then the discussion can take a different course.
Some more conservative commenters try to have things both ways. They want monogomous relationships and an orderly society. I don’t think those things are necessarily complementary. The only order we will have is if we tap into our primal instincts and allow for the alpha/beta hiearchy to develop naturally. Unfortunately, this will leave far more men with their dicks in their hands that we currently have.
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“””””””””””””southerngirl said…
Well…as I said over at Lilly’s a nice girly gang bang could teach him a few lessons. 🙂 Great post love. I like it when you are pissed, gets the blood flowing a bit huh?”””””””””””””
There ya go roissy Better get one of us to chapperone but I think you have been invited to a girly gang bang.
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I have to conclude that the problem is not human nature, which is universal and unchanging. We are all more alike than we care to admit. The problem is the law.
If Errantwife faced divorce, no alimony, and loss of her children, she would have good reasons to work on improving her relationship with her obviously loving husband. So, the blame lies with our society, which encourages irresponsibility.
Welfare payments destroyed the black family in this country. The white family is being destroyed in part by welfare, in part by the complete lack of legal restrictions on a wife’s behavior, and rewarding her for irresponsibility.
Well, the good news is that human cloning is coming along, and will be possible soon. Then, forget about finding the right girl. Just clone yourself. The Final Solution to the battle of the sexes.
You want a girl? Borrow a really good X chromosome. Meanwhile, party on.
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Guess she is not deleting posts or missed this one.
“”””””””””””””””””””””Anonymous said…
Sorry, toots, but you are no match for Roissy.
Feminized, faggotized women can’t accept the biological reality that after age 30, a woman’s desirability to men drops rapidly. No whining about it can help.
Feminism has failed. You better get back into traditional structures if you want to be kept safe from Islamic Sharia Law.”””””””””””””””””””
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BTW, sometimes I get a bit garrulous when I’m tired, and I was just thinking about something. I was thinking that a lot of women come to this blog because they’re curious about what men want. Is that true?
For me yes. I can imagine many other women feel the same way. I discovered this blog from a link on another blog I read.
If so, what do women think really keeps men coming back for more?
This blog or coming back to a woman?
chuckGuys get annoyed with their women. We fantasize about other women and many guys cheat on them. We’re painting the picture of a doting beta husband married to a harlot with two young children
Agreed
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Guess who posted over at the linked blog?
ian in hamburg said…
I wonder will you-know-who post there as well?
Bhetti, has he mentioned anything to you?
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OMG This is where the soul just got torn out of the woman.
“”””””””””””””””””””””””646Hedonist said…
Interesting rant.
I am commenting as a man who loves sex, and has had a lot of it in my time. See my blog if you have details.
So you are slut! And we should hear you roar! You are so ethical, so empowered, so free…. except for the small fact that you sneak around like any other garden variety cheat. Your words would have more strength if you weren’t most likely a stay at home housewife who deceives and humiliates her husband under the cover of empowerment and the guise of feminism. If you’re so free, you would let him know of your extra-curriculars. “”””””””””””””””””””””””””
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Coming back to a woman, of course.
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Roissy you are a force of nature bro.
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roissy
I think I will return to my old moniker. It is how my fans know me.
Besides “Super Cool Alpha” is just so try-too-hard. Naturally I will never adopt “Herb Dregs.”
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Seems a no-brainer, but so many guys marry girls who want a provider-beta or because they feel their clock ticking and the dude seems “good enough.”
In an abstract sense, PA just described what I was trying to explain with the fear of gold-diggers. Not so much the child support payments or alimony, but the idea that she isn’t attracted to the male, but tolerates his presence because she really wants kids and would prefer the dad to stick around. I would imagine that some men would find it disheartening to find out that they’re that predicament, and it could enrage some men.
Marry a girl who is over yout attractiveness threshold (ie, the thought of kissing her and seeing her naked arouses you when you first meet her, and your dick stiffens when you start flirting) but with the best character possible.
Silly Question: If you’re an alpha, it generally presumes that you have some degree of game, which implies that you’re capable of attracting women. In other words, why waste your skills on a marriage with an attractive girl with character when you simply bang the hottest women regardless of character?
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Default User: If you mean my trollkyoloviefist, then shame on you for reminding me so brutally of his suicidal death. If you mean this ‘contrarian’ character is but a fraction of a phantom, an atom of a ghost, nay — not even worthy of being a shadow because that involves too many photons still — of him. This brutal hijacking of my him, which I regrettably started out as an innocent tribute, is not worthy of attention. This contrarian is a sockpuppet, a nothing, whose only redeeming feature is lacking the use of the honoured initials: TJF! Contrarian cannot emulate his repressed passion, his razor-sharp wit presented in his improbable five million ways of disagreeing and his sheer mechanical intensity no matter how hard he tries.
I do not speak to his kind.
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Roissy you are a force of nature bro.
true. now, please, someone fetch my thunder chariot.
Besides “Super Cool Alpha” is just so try-too-hard.
you are obviously not an irony-loving hipster.
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Bhetti
Sometimes I love the stuff you write. That was good. Maybe you should write, not read romance novels…
… he said as he turned and walked away without looking back. She watched as he moved into the distance, the setting sun framing his sinewy frame. She sighed with contentment…
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roissy</em
Obviously not. But I am hurt because “irony” would presume that nobody believed me to be a super cool Alpha.
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Hmmm!
Is messing up HTML tags beta or Alpha (because Alphas do not care about HTML shit)?
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Really it is truth when applied that cuts the deepest.
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That woman is going to change her life. Wild shit.
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Dear roissy, an extract from Beyond Heaving Bosoms:
“Finally, our Top Five Wish List for anyone who is dreaming of the perfect romance plot that’s never been done before:
1. Werefish. Wereamphibians, really. […]
2. […]
3. Erotic inspirational romance: Oh, God, Oh God, Oh God. End of story.
4. […] atheist romance. Candy suggests, “God is dead, but our love isn’t.”
5. And while Candy is making wishes: hipster romance, please. Intelligent, thin, toned, and confident dudes — the opposite of the overmuscled alpha Thor model — who likes concerts, bands you’ve never heard of, and staying up all night arguing about the economic analysis of food consumption in first- vs. third-world countries, then going out for big-ass pancakes at 5:00 a.m.”
There you have it. Hipsters as unlikely to appear in romance novels as werefish and almostporn + almostthebible in one novel. Not entirely excluded, but very unlikely.
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If Errantwife faced divorce, no alimony, and loss of her children, she would have good reasons to work on improving her relationship with her obviously loving husband. So, the blame lies with our society, which encourages irresponsibility.
Errantwife is an adult so she makes her own decisions. Too many people want to blame others when they sin. Unless it’s a situation where you have a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea, you only have yourself to blame. You didn’t use bcontrol or a condom, you chose to get pissy drunk, you ate and ate(bar thyroid con) etc.. Man the hell up and just say I fucked up.
Yea you don’t excite me anymore but I chose to step outside the relationship, it was my choice. Too many people are moving away from personal responsibility. If she wanted to leave, she should have rolled out before she brought a child into this world. It seems that her husband isn’t a bad guy just not her prince charming. She needs to man up and think about her children. If she brings that young boy into her home to play step daddy to her children there is a chance he may do something to one of her children. Not only that, but her children may resent her for breaking up there home.
btw, I kinda agree with Willard 😯 I think she may be largly bullshiting on that blog of her. Remember there are a lot of would be novelists who start off as blog writers these days.
The welfare system is in place should one come into diffculty not for those who chose to lay about.
@ welmer- From what I’ve heard from other women as well as I what I believed for I started reading this blog: a women puts effort into her appearance, keeps her shape together meaning no fat/ slim extremes. How a man “meets” you is how he would prefer you to look throughout the relationship, good cook, non fussy or nagging, freak or semi freak in the sheets.
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Default User
as I told welmer earlier, blockquote is the devil so beware. T aka rickyraw is the only commenter who bloclquote likes.
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Joel,
You are quite right about technology breaking the current situation out there.
Artificial wombs (perhaps in about a decade), human cloning, and in vitro fertilization.
I think that women will be shocked at how many financially successful, but still single men in their late 30’s and 40’s will opt to have kids via artifical wombs (they will buy eggs from college-aged females), and have their own kids with no wife, who will be “all theirs” legally.
This will basically -MAKE-women who ever hope of getting married, to choose rather quicky in life. Women who wait past 35 when cloning and artifical wombs come into use, will be risking never finding an even half-acceptable husband at all. Financially successful men might get married, but will probably only after they have THEIR OWN kids via cloning or artifical wombs, so they kids cannot be taken away from them in court. …………………..********
**********then again, if a man could have two kids via artifical wombs or cloning, wouldn’t Roissy’s idea of permanently gaming random females or ownership of a sexbot or Lucifer’s idea (he’s apparently not that Craigslist killer after all—–LOL) of just buying a couple of call girls every week begin to look more and more appealing to men, while having David Alexander-like friendships with a couple of females at their job?
I really wonder if feminists realize how fully expendable women will be from men’s lives once men can through science (cloning and artifical wombs) have kids without females.? Men simply wont give a shit about their plight at all. Having a couple of children and being able to provide for them and keep them in safe areas (safe low-crime parts of town) are the primal urge that drives males. It really isn’t parading the hottest gal around in your convertible, its your ability to produce and take care of offspring at the most brute, primal level. That will probably hit feminism like a tsunami. Men will then truly not care to even interact or even bother looking at women who aren’t their wives, mothers, daughters, potential one-night stands at single’s bars, professional call-girls, or co-workers at that time.
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why waste your skills on a marriage with an attractive girl with character when you simply bang the hottest women regardless of character?
In the language of the dating market — your peak buying power as a guy is in your 30s. Depending in the guy, it’s downhill after 40 as far as the qualty of girls you can pull.
In the language of love — sometimes you’ll meet that girl with whom you feel like you two really click and you feel good with her. If this kind of a relationship is sustainable, it’s be a shame to let someone like that go. You meet girls like that only a few times in a lifetime.
In the language of the dirty old grandpa in “Little Miss SUnshine” — you’re supposed to be banging the really hot girls in your teens. I’ll toss in the 20s. And early 30s.
In the language of your parents and grandparents — most guys will start feeling the need for stability and family at early-mid 30. I like what Gunslinger calls it: Empire Building. You wanna build a world of your own, and that includes having a couple of kids.
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Default: You mistake the ending of a romance novel. No way are you walking into the sunset. That’s the nice thing about romance novels, she will always GET YOU IN THE END (this is apparently the way you men may interpret it, like some sort of horror movie).
Rewrite:
You walk towards me as if in a trance, mouthing those three fatal words that will tie you to me forever. You know you are doomed, but you cannot help it, you have fallen into the abyss, into the chains of love. You get down on one knee, the sunset glinting off your hair, your broad shoulders straining at your VK worthy shirt…
Okay. No romance novel would mention VK, by name, anyway. I’m convinced he’s probably the secret model for a male or two in Ward’s The Black Dagger Brotherhood.
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chicnoir
Look, a proper <blockquote>
Actually, I think it was an improperly closed <em> that got me.
I am really tempting the HTML Gods™ with this post.
this post ©Default User.
…I think I got away with it…
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It’s unfair to make generalizations about women based on this woman’s blog. Women who act like her (of all ages, but especially past 30) are not the norm by any means. The whole “cougar” phenomenon needs to go away… fast. Reading some of this woman’s blog entries made me feel like I was reading some romance novel with Fabio on the cover. Yuck.
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Bhetti
My text was from the beginning. The initial (or early) meeting. She had not won him over yet. She knew she would, but for now he was walking out of her life.
If her bossums are heaving, I might just propose.
[Exactly what I will propose I don’t know. Maybe that she learn how to code HTML]
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“”””””””””””PA,
In the language of love — sometimes you’ll meet that girl with whom you feel like you two really click and you feel good with her. If this kind of a relationship is sustainable, it’s be a shame to let someone like that go. You meet girls like that only a few times in a lifetime.”””””””””‘
I have met 3 like that “married” 2 of them.
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Chuck, you’ve got a good point, but there are some differences today. Men are often unhappy in their marriages, but it is considered a fact of life that we have to accept. Women would have written the previous sentence fifty years ago, but now it is men who deal.
The stereotype of the drunk/high or sexually frustrated housewife was cliché in the 1960s. Think “Mother’s Little Helper” and “The Graduate.” Things have definitely turned around since then.
I was just thinking of the change in sitcoms that started in the 1980s. Guys went from wise, patriarchal types to buffoons within a few short years. Now, it is almost a given that men are the fools in any family sitcom. Remember “I love Lucy?” Lucy was always a well-meaning girl, but a fool nonetheless. Lucy screwed everything up, but her husband put up with her and loved her anyway. Can you imagine a woman ever being portrayed as such today? No, they are all lawyers and doctors and experts of one sort or the other. If they are housewives, they are portrayed as selfless martyrs who suffer all sorts of indignities to keep their inept fools of husbands from causing catastrophic disasters. The guys are semi-moronic — approaching retarded usually.
Given that married men have been pigeonholed as subhumans, is it any wonder that so many men are just plain tired of being married? There is a much better alternative to slavery. It doesn’t just have to be about picking girls up — it is about doing what you want with your life within the bounds of your own abilities, which you might find are far broader than you thought once you stop worrying about other people’s opinions. It is about following your own heart, and ignoring conventions. Who really cares what women think about your choices? It is really up to you to define happiness.
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chicnoir–
I’m going to ask you straight up.
What do you think Errant Wife should get in a divorce if her husband discovers and decides to go that way?
I’m asking about SHOULD. What do you think would be fair?
As I understand it she’s 31, she married him at about 20 (I’d guess when she got pregnant in college), he pays for everything, they have three children, and he’s paying for her having gone back to college – where she prospects for lovers, together with at online sites, and out at bars with like minded girlfriends, etc.
In one scenario we wants custody of the children; in another considering his more than full time high pressure job he doesn’t. What’s fair in each case, say you?
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HTML, the hypertext of love:
–It will always be src=”hot.jpeg” when I think of you.
— Let there be no *lessthan*br*greaterthan*s between us.
— Let’s get to yours so that we can customise your homepage, baby.
— And, why not, some truly kinky javascript: How about some of the old onmouseover, onmouseout?
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Ayo check this out, Savoy teaches this asian guy pickup:
He’s like an Alpha in beta clothing. Heh
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Far too much verbiage. Your main concern is what keeps a guy coming back to that pussy. If you’re a good cook, he’ll show up for dinner. If you’re not fussy or nagging, he’ll stay in the house a lot without making excuses to leave. But what you really want is ownership of that cock.
To keep him hooked on that pussy, there are only a few things you need to do, but I don’t think they are easy, because in all my experience I’ve only met a scant few women who could pull it off (hehe — that’s your hint).
Either very few women are capable of performing these things, or very few of them have ever been taught the art — I really don’t know because I know the women would never tell me even if I asked where they learned it. However, it is a very dangerous tool, because if you get a man hooked, he will go crazy if you deprive him or hand it over to someone else. He may even kill over it.
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One thing people don’t understand about da is that he was born with a small dick just like me. He is probably doing it right really with the hug from woman he just needs to up his game to touching, caressing, fondeling, holding, basically learning how to be intimate with a woman. Then move on to what he doesn’t understand yet. Like that you can get a woman off 5 times in a day with one finger. Also you can do the same with your tongue. I mean hey I got lucky around 11 to 15 I got to practice innocent intimacy on my next door neighbor and her 2 cousins that came to visit. So I got lots of experience with womans bodies at a young age without actually fucking. Then that gives you confidence even though god fucked you and you think fucked up about yourself. Your religion and society do not allow you to kill yourself they don’t give you mercy. But hey I did all right in high school I had 2 superhot woman like the kind people remember for life and the kind they remember seeing you with for life and around 30 normal woman. Did not fuck them all but was intimate with them. So really that allowed me to be able to have woman worship me anyway. Plus my dick does really work for hours and hours. I can fuck forever and make love for longer. So my first wife did worship me as a god because she could read cosmo and laugh at it because she was having more orgasms and more fullillment than the woman even the ones trying to impress with stories of multiple orgasms or whatever. Plus we were looked at by the other woman as having the perfect relationship based on fucking. DA doesn’t think he could get a woman to fall in love with him. Well it is probably true that it is not easy to find a woman you could click with but really you probably could find in life somewhere you angel. The one you can dedicate your life to and she can dedicate her life to you. It is possible. Really I always thought guys with big dicks would have it easier than me. I have wished for death to not have to live with it. Really though I guess it isn’t that bad. When I was deployed first wife sent a letter ever day and a package every week. I wasn’t rich it was because she loved me. She was addicted to me. I felt bad when the shit went down later because really I wasn’t getting ahead of the game of life which is always an essense of my inner call of the wild. I need to be getting ahead of the game.
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@dougjnn
I was looking through Errant Wife’s blog. Her husband’s known since like June 2007. The fucking moron just stays with her and whines.
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kim–
Fifty percent of American marriages end in divorce which American women initiate 70% of the time, and instigate more often than that. You would I presume agree that Errant Wife is instigating a divorce if her husband finally files one.
Further child support for professional earning level men includes a very substantial portion of alimony. The fact that under current no fault laws a woman such as Errant Wife could not only be the one deciding she wants a divorce and get one, but also in any event get more than half of her husband’s hard earned money, including the house, and including her attorney’s fees and support during the pendancy of divorce, is enough to drive men mad.
The thing is this is NEVER fully brought home to men in the media, or very close to never. But men are finally starting to wise up.
Given the incredibly one sided feminist inspired American entertainment media culture and divorce laws women like her are very on the rapid rise.
No wonder so many young men are highly reluctant to marry. Big surprise.
Look to American feminist divorce laws and media and educational culture.
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@doujnn- I would hate to think of an saunerio(tp) where the husband doesn’t’ t get the children. So in the chance that he has custody, he should give her exactly 2k and not a cent more. With 2k she can rent a room somewhere until she gets on her feet.
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dougjn- realise that it always comes down to money with you 🙂
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gunsOne thing people don’t understand about da is that he was born with a small dick just like me
😯
*dead faint*
As long as your tongue works your okay with me pal 🙂
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welmer However, it is a very dangerous tool, because if you get a man hooked, he will go crazy if you deprive him or hand it over to someone else. He may even kill over it.
*leans in and grabs welmer by the shoulders & shakes*
TELL ME TELL ME
PLEASE!
*thinks to self:please don’t be a tupac j5 thing*
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The basis for her justifications and contempt for her current husband/beta/meal-ticket.
http://yourerrantwife.blogspot.com/2008/07/old-love.html
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Gunslingergregi: I love your posts. You’re like the James Joyce of this blog.
Firepower: Kassy is taken. She’s sitting in my living room, providing me with hours of free cable. Sorry.
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So, anyway, I can only give a topical explanation of the art of cock ownership, because, lacking the necessary parts, I cannot conceptualize the actual neuromuscular process.
I can only speak as the victim of such a process. And truly, a man can be vanquished with this technique.
To be honest, I think it may have played a role in the destruction of my marriage, because my wife was entirely incapable – nay, ignorant – of the art. Despite trying to expunge the experience from my mind, I could never forget the action, which must have staked its claim in my hindbrain, forever spoiling my experience with the average woman.
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@Dougjn, I recall sara or dizzy linking to something that mentioned women instigaged most of the divorces back in the late 1800s as well, and that’s about 30 years before we won the right to vote. It seems that women fall out of love faster than men. It could be because we give up so much one we get that ring on our finger.
http://lookatthisfuckinghipster.tumblr.com/
T, I see some of your friends here^^^
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Speaking of men reproducing without women. That is a horror scenario for women. After all, Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein as a story of how a man might reproduce without a woman.
It ended badly for Dr. Frankenstein, in her story. But, the technology was primitive then.
I don’t think most men worry about women reproducing without men. They can already do it, but most don’t. I guess they really want/need the financial and emotional support of a man to raise children. Touching, really.
Our world is going to get very interesting, perhaps very soon.
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kim: I’m wary of your brand of defending the female gender ‘well, she’s not like the rest of us’ isn’t the best path to it. I think I’ve said things like this myself but it doesn’t really work. Well, why is she like this if you disapprove of it? Lack of matrimonial sex, mixed message culture, feminism, psychological issues? She’s ‘a slut’ is all well and good, but it’s nice to deconstruct the reasons why. You’re endorsing the slut = worthless even more than these men, because she doesn’t even have worth as a sexual object to you. There’s a thin line between you and her, that you have to acknowledge if you don’t want to turn into anything like her or make her mistakes if you view them as mistakes.
Also, your comment on romance novels (popular fiction written for women by women) surely doesn’t mean that you dismiss the whole genre, does it? If so, then I’d be seriously skeptical about whose ‘side’ you’re on if there are sides. Are you implying slut = stupid as well?
I will acknowledge that I’m basing this on extracts of her blog here. I’m also aware that I haven’t done any defending of the female gender myself, because most of these guys love or loved women insanely, which is why they can resent them for that power.
I may be delusional here, but like DA’s constant attempts to justify his madness, they seem to go to extraordinary lengths to have to justify why women deserve misogyny.
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Ay welmer stop playing. I need details.
*looks over to kassy,bhetti, and fine*
get the rope cause he ain’t leaving until he tells us.
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Chicnoir
Ok. Thanks for answering. That’s actually a little tougher than I’d be, but not by too much.
Ok, but please face the question. Even if he fought hard for custody most US courts would give it to her in this situation, given that she’s been by far the largest care giver. So please answer, if she got custody, then what economic result, re court ordered property division and mandated child support, if any?
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Gunny’s one hell of a brave man. He even transcends that taboo subject among men, the small penis. It’s truly legendary. Wow.
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chic: I only have black velvet ribbons, I’m afraid. They should still do.
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chicnoir —
The divorce levels then were a tiny fraction of what they are now. I’d guess a large portion of those divorces were due to extreme disfunction on the man’s part. I.e. drunkenness or addiction leading to inability to support his family, extreme beatings, and so on.
Now women often get divorced simply because they aren’t sufficiently feeling it anymore. They can no longer “live a lie” in the popular media idiom.
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Welmer:
“it is about doing what you want with your life within the bounds of your own abilities, which you might find are far broader than you thought once you stop worrying about other people’s opinions. It is about following your own heart, and ignoring conventions. Who really cares what women think about your choices? It is really up to you to define happiness.”
I agree with some of your points, and ^^^ this one really hit home. I’m going through a period in my life (this isn’t the first time) where I want to bust out, ignore conventions, and live a life romanticized in movies, that of the traveller, writer, etc. I’m realistic enough to know that everyone wants to do this, and I have a good chance of not finding what I seek.
But to me it seems as if we use the constraint of “bad women” to explain away our inability to live that type of life. We tell ourselves that we are held back by a relationship or a job that keeps our status intact or children.
I get the feeling, about myself and other men, that we are lost in the chaos that has been created from the feminist 1960s, the anti-feminist response, changing laws favoring women over men, a pervasive SWPL societal awareness, the list goes on. Not only are we still waiting for all of the leaves to settle from this mess, but we use that as an excuse to limit ourselves.
I also believe that many men overplay their wound from female-favoring courts. I know that some men are basically reamed by the courts, there are of course many sad stories. But for all of the sad stories, there are plenty of stories that turn out just fine. The man moves on, sees his kids on a regular basis, and is content. There are also cases where the man doesn’t give two shits about the kids and moves on with his life.
Again, partially stemming from the feeling that the traditional male role in this society (usually a white male) is being marginalized, men use the stacked courts as another crutch. I’m open to hearing other viewpoints on this…
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I’m not even sure if it’s a conscious action, although I strongly suspect it is in at least some cases. I can remember the wicked smile on the face of one girl, as she’d look me in the eyes, and then willfully extract my essence from me with a firm, concerted action. There was more power in this than a kung-fu death blow — in fact I was a helpless and quivering, but ecstatic wreck as she absorbed my yang. In this way I calculated that she withdrew the equivalent of an entire bucket full of my semen in less than a year, and she came out of it all with a straight posture and glowing aura. Ultimately, the power she absorbed was too much for her; she lapsed into insanity and has never fully recovered.
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Joel,
“Our world is going to get very interesting, perhaps very soon. ”
I can hardly wait.
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chiclet aka annoying entity:
So in the chance that he has custody, he should give her exactly 2k and not a cent more. With 2k she can rent a room somewhere until she gets on her feet.
no. she should not get one red penny. if she winds up starving on the street, well, she should have thought about the consequences before cheating.
It could be because we give up so much one we get that ring on our finger.
men give up much more in marriage, ya dumbass.
do me a favor and implode into nothingness already. you’re like a brick wall minus the geometric logic.
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Roissy, check out that savoy link …its fuckin comical.
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welmer:
In this way I calculated that she withdrew the equivalent of an entire bucket full of my semen in less than a year, and she came out of it all with a straight posture and glowing aura. Ultimately, the power she absorbed was too much for her; she lapsed into insanity and has never fully recovered.
that was beautiful, man. seriously.
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There are many things that need to be fixed, and it will take a long time for us to do so, but for now all I can offer is this bit of inspiration that came to me in a moment of lucidity following the destruction of my marriage:
Men’s Liberation
Now I have to try to explain to some women that thing some of them can do that brings men to their knees. I’m not sure I’m up to it, but I’ve got to try. If women only could embrace that power, they would laugh about the weak little sluts who must resort to crying to judges and social workers to get some pittance for their sins.
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dougjnOk. Thanks for answering. That’s actually a little tougher than I’d be, but not by too much
She fucks up her kid life just becuase she wants a little fun with a young stud muffin. She also exposes her husband to a possible std for a quick thrill.
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That made my day…. LOL. I mean truly, they should be more like ninjas… stealthy….. I mean… you would think that the most obvious strategy for a slutty girl is to appear coy. Kind of like the wise janitor that is also a deadly assassin. This is another example of a hyperbolic heuristic reaction without critically processing the information at hand.
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“””””””””””chicnoir
gunsOne thing people don’t understand about da is that he was born with a small dick just like me
*dead faint*
As long as your tongue works your okay with me pal “”””””””
And it is true about asian woman I can hit bottom he he he
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roissyno. she should not get one red penny. if she winds up starving on the street, well, she should have thought about the consequences before cheating.
The children may resent the father for that Roissy and they don’t need anymore upset.
men give up much more in marriage, ya dumbass
You do nothing but work and come home. All that you give up is chasing other women and a portion of your pay. Cry me a river.
do me a favor and implode into nothingness already. you’re like a brick wall minus the geometric logic.
If I did that you would cease to write this blog since your love for me is so great that I reside front and center in your brain. Your love for me is the reason you schoolboy attack me with your choice of words. Your attacks are akin to pulling my ponytails.
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“”””””””on April 22, 2009 at 8:39 pm finefantastic!
Gunslingergregi: I love your posts. You’re like the James Joyce of this blog.
“””””””””””””
Checked wikepedia seems like an interesting dude.
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Bhetti
I have nothing to say to that. Not even in HTML. Not even in DHTML. Except, are you into DOM?
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Roissy,
I think you held up a mirror, and these two bloggers didn’t like the reflection they saw. I can’t help but think of the following quote:
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer
German philosopher (1788 – 1860)
Keeping bring the truth bro. I’ve learned a ton since starting to read this blog months ago. You are truly doing a service for guys who were living in the Matrix their entire lives.
Of course, once you take the redpill with respect to women and relationships there is no going back.
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“””””””””Bhetti
Gunny’s one hell of a brave man. He even transcends that taboo subject among men, the small penis. It’s truly legendary. Wow.””””””””””””
DA’s life is worth it.
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wow, what a fucking whore… a grown woman with three kids and she’s practically proud of the fact that she cheats.
i seriously, hope that bitch gets aids. she is part of what’s wrong with this world…
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“”””””””””chicnoir
Ay welmer stop playing. I need details.
*looks over to kassy,bhetti, and fine*
get the rope cause he ain’t leaving until he tells us.””””””””””””
This is actually taught mother to daughter by one of the indo tribes.
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Default, I didn’t even know what it stood for. I am all inexperience, teach me what being DOMmed means!
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finefantastic!
“Free cable” is that some kind of euphamism? Is there something the two of you want to share?
I hope you are not doing lots of cocaine… or worse.
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Gunny: “””””””””Bhetti
Gunny’s one hell of a brave man. He even transcends that taboo subject among men, the small penis. It’s truly legendary. Wow.””””””””””””
DA’s life is worth it.
That probably shows the amazing marshmallowy squishiness inside some of the hardest men’s hearts a lot better than anything I’ve ever seen. I really wonder who’s the more sensitive gender in general sometimes.
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super fucking annoying cunt with zero logic abilities:
The children may resent the father for that Roissy and they don’t need anymore upset.
i repeat: the whore wife should have thought of the precarious position she would put her kids in before she cheated.
anyhow, the kids will likely forgive dad for kicking mom onto the streets if she whored around. your thinking is ass backwards as per usual.
You do nothing but work and come home. All that you give up is chasing other women and a portion of your pay.
men give up their natural inclination to female variety and their basic human rights before the divorce industrial complex. by any modern measure men are far more screwed by entering into marriage than are women.
why do you think women are more likely to instigate divorce? it’s because women are required to sacrifice a lot less in marriage than men.
if you had paid any attention at all the whole time you’ve been soiling this blog with your rancid stupidity, you’d understand this basic concept by now.
oh, one more thing, cunt. men owe wives NOTHING if the wife cheats. it doesn’t matter if the money involved is 1 million bucks or 1 red cent. the moral equation does not change.
If I did that you would cease to write this blog since your love for me is so great
no, that’s not it. i don’t love you and i don’t hate you.
i’m contemptuous of you.
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Bhetti
You did well on the HTML stuff. You had me fooled.
Regarding DOM, it is not the stuff of romance novels.
http://www.w3.org/DOM/
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Bhetti
Delicious.
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haha, i linked her to http://awomanagainstfeminism.blogspot.com/2007/12/middle-aged-princess-grows-up.html
i hope she reads it… and picks up some penicillin
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Indonesian?
I believe it requires much education. The mother must be a sage who has the daughter practice for years before turning her loose. If only American mothers had this kind of dedication, perhaps people would be much happier here.
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I don’t know if you read the Anti-seducer traits in the Art of seduction , I love your blog but I feel that you are sometimes too vulgar and almost resentful and bitter towards women because they can have sex more easily than you or maybe they burned you before (perhaps in the past when you were young and inexperienced)
I’m not saying that women who take advantage of the fact that they can sleep around and cheat on their husbands are to be admired, far from that. (women seem to cheat more in this day and age simply because they can and society allows them that very easily with no accountability).
again, I learn a lot from your posts but I cannot help but feel a sens of Bitterness and Resentment towards women.
I say live and let live…. the alpha male you portray is the kind of lover who would make errant wife cum hard while you recite to her passages of Story of O.
Best.
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Default, I apologise for my deceit: ‘What? You know nothing of HTML, oh no, you are in fact a script virgin! I BLAME you for making me think this, forcing me to seduce you thus giving you my co… de.’
Looking at that briefly: I see talk of DOM bindings and slopes (are these slops of alabaster?). DOM is about languages accessing each other, transgressing interscript boundaries to join together upon one smouldering interface. Use your imagination, man.
dougjnn: This is the moment where the echoes of 102 return to haunt me, disturbing me vaguely. I deserve this.
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Studs and sluts enable each other. They have a symbiotic relationship, and one can’t exist without the other. This blogger is no more of a slut than the endless parade of men willing to fuck her. And think about how much the two sides have in common: they fuck each other while endlessly complaining about the lack of good longterm partners (who must, naturally, satisfy an impossible set of criteria) and talking about how much beta men suck.
The battle between pot and kettle rages on, but regardless of who wins Western civilization loses.
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Welmer,
I think there are like 1000′ of different cultures in indo lot of different languages. There are the main ones. But then there are around 50000 islands that make up indonesia. The people of borneo ate the other people that where moved to their island. The people who where moved to their island passed this down. Interesting stuff. It comes down to sex a lot in war.
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roissy men give up their natural inclination to female variety and their basic human rights before the divorce industrial complex. by any modern measure men are far more screwed by entering into marriage than are women.
why do you think women are more likely to instigate divorce? it’s because women are required to sacrifice a lot less in marriage than men.
super fucking annoying cunt with zero logic abilities:
You are one very bitter overly emotional man. Your parents must have really fucked you up. Women give up a lot when it comes to career, body, time,sleep,cleaning, etc… Roissy. Until recently women didn’t receive large divorce settlements. You are getting overly emotional about something that will most likely never happen to you.
anyhow, the kids will likely forgive dad for kicking mom onto the streets if she whored around.your thinking is ass backwards as per usual.
Maybe, maybe not but if the kids don’t know that mom cheated, they will wonder why dad kicked her on the st. Your hatred of women is duly noted because Whiskey has said the same thing in the past regarding (children first) and you failed to jump on him. I’m convinced that there is something more to your hatred of women besides a bad experience and awful parents.
PS. dougjn said he wouldn’t be as harsh as I am. Yet you didn’t jump on him either. Your bias against women is very telling. You are pathetic in more ways than one.
PPS Stop paying 40 bucks for the John Denver haircut because it does nothing for you.
That’s all for you !
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Kick a bitch,
We missed you. But that “Middle age princess” i posted on here a while back.I found out it was a fake written by an imaginative man with great writing skillz.
Nonetheless the situation he presents may be now more common now more than ever.
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Forced integration did not work out well on borneo
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from my own experiences… the more i have learned about women, the less i respect them. kinda an inverse relationship there.
i would venture to guess this is why you sense bitterness from Roissy.
for the most part, women are good for one thing… getting hosed down with load after load of man-goo. preferably MY man-goo if you know what i’m saying.
giggity goo!
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@Schoolboy: no shit? aw damn… that’s kinda weak. oh well, it was a great story!
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Why bother, unless you say this strictly for rhetorical effect?
Indifference is much more cutting than contempt, hate, or anger because it does not even recognize any similarity between the object of indifference and the speaker.
It’s like I don’t get angry or contemptuous of an ant because there is no level of empathy or understanding between it and me. It is simply irrelevant to my life one way or another and tomorrow if it dies in concentrated sunlight under a magnifying glass, or conversely goes on to lead an extremely fulfilling ant life it means nothing to me.
Indifference is where it is at.
So if the cunt in question wins the lottery tomorrow or dies from 54 post-rape stab wounds inflicted by a gang of AIDS-ridden Haitian heroin addicts, it’s all the same to me.
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Bhetti
I am Bhetti, I am.
LOL
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“It could be because we give up so much one we get that ring on our finger.”
That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time.
No, sugartits, MEN give up far more. If you have learned anything from this blog, it is that women’s sexual market value lasts for a much shorter time than men’s.
Also, women desperately wish for marriage, flip through bridal magazines, always complain how their boyfriend is not proposing, etc. Do men do any of these things?
Talk about living a lie.
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I have many female colleagues with whom I work closely on good terms and with excellent communication – in regard to the business at hand. But when women at work or on this blog start to talk about how they see various man/woman issues I basically stop listening very closely. The only data I trust in this arena is binary: sex or no sex, come hither or cold shoulder, spit or swallow. Since getting to this level of truth is extremely unwise at work and completely impossible in the blogosophere I have low expectations for these arenas.
There it is ladies. The one way you have to convince men how you really feel about men/sex/etc. requires proximity. Everything else is word play and cheap entertainment.
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That is the other irony I don’t have a problem getting respect from my woman and to me seems like every woman I have met has been ready to marry me.
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Chic–
I said I wouldn’t be QUITE as harsh under the assumptions I’m making.
In principal she should get nothing.
However I basically agree that she should get enough from a husband with money to barely, in a very non cushy, threadbare way, be able if she scrambles to get on her feet. By getting any kind of job she can.
If she has any money of her own, then nothing to her. If she doesn’t, then 2K wouldn’t really accomplish your purpose. Well it might in South Carolina.
Actually I’m not sure the law really ought to make him do that but I would do that.
BTW, I really don’t think women realize how viscerally RAPED men feel by the idea of having to handsomely pay off and even worse support for years through child support=alimony a wife who’s lived entirely or virtually entirely off them, while massively cheating on him. It’s just an utter ass rape.
To characterize that as “all about the money” comprehends nothing. Absolutely nothing about men.
Sure it would hurt for a woman without kids who makes equal or similar to her husband but never depended on him to cheat on him, with essentially no property division effects. (Though it always costs way more to live seperately than together.) It hurts deep if he really loved her. But that’s more like a non married but deep relationship breakup. It’s a deep hurt but it’s not an ass raping emasculation.
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OK, I’ll start to explain. As a man, I am limited in this endeavor, but like a watchman on the wall, it’s a duty one cannot shirk.
First, and easiest, is maintaining the physique that can excite a man. Even American women know how to do that, despite their lazy tendency to ignore this most basic rule. If you cannot get the man hard, all else is moot.
Secondly, one must maintain hygiene down there. A woman’s pussy should be sweet and slightly tangy in scent, like a peach. Too much and it becomes musky; neglected it is as a piece of codfish on the beach in summertime — a repellent item indeed.
These first two are simple matters, and all women, regardless of whether they have knowledge of the art or not, should be familiar with them.
However, the third involves a fundamental, fluid relationship with the act of sex itself. Most American women understand only penetration, and play one part or the other. Either they sit back and allow passive penetration of the soft mass of flesh between their legs, or they turn the tables, stiffening up and acting as though they are pounding an object into a man. The former is a kind of sex, but is suffused with ennui; the latter requires the use of the clitoris as a micropenis that penetrates the pubic hair and rubs against the shaft of a man, and can hardly be called sex.
What American women fail to grasp, is that the true power of a woman is to actively draw in while a man strives to push in, and grasp while he pulls on the outstroke. This requires a relaxation of the hips to accommodate the man’s thrust, but then a localized grip on the penis as it pulls back. In anthropological terms, we might call it the prehensile vagina; just as some animals have the ability to grasp branches with prehensile tails, the human female theoretically has the ability to grasp the penis with her vagina.
This is the simplest of mechanical explanations — there is far more to it than that: there is the “wave”* where the man can feel muscular undulations pulling him inside. The Wave is most likely involuntary, and it is the only expression of this phenomenon that I have experienced with fully American women, but I am sure that it can be controlled: just as Buddhist monks can manipulate their pulse and metabolism, so can a woman learn to trigger this response. Beyond The Wave, there is the concerted grip, which is the most manipulative of all. The grip is a firm hold on the penis as it tries to pull out for another thrust. With a strategically executed grip, a woman can bring a man to orgasm within a very short time, so it must be used artfully.
There are a couple of ways to use these techniques together that I can think of at the moment. A woman can totally control the pace and release of a man with a skillful application of these moves. By yielding passively and following the man on his strokes, she can delay the man’s orgasm. A combination of passive push or The Wave against the man’s thrust combined with grip on the outstroke will bring a very fast orgasm. The Wave will maintain a high level of arousal for the man, and can do so for a significant amount of time if applied gently (allowing a deep, vaginal orgasm for the female), which will heighten the sensation of the man’s release when The Grip is finally applied.
The killer combination for the man is probably a passive following as his arousal grows, then the wave when it has reached its pre-peak plateau. Finally, when he is thrusting with all his might, a woman can go entirely passive for a moment to prolong his ardor, and then when she chooses, apply the push and grip, and he will be a piece of soft clay in her hands, releasing his essence into her willing vagina, and giving her a triumphant feeling of bliss and mastery.
This is the best I can do for now. I am not a bumblebee, so I cannot tell a bumblebee how it feels to fly. I can only tell the bumblebee what she sounds like, and what she looks like. Only the bumblebee knows how it feels for her to fly, and I can only sit back and wonder, and applaud her for her skill in what she does.
A woman who can work a man in this way is guaranteed mastery over his lust. Whenever he feels a twang of desire for anything or anyone, he will run to the woman who provides him with such unparalleled pleasure. In this way, she will have mastery over his undying desire, and if he transgresses, he will crawl back begging for forgiveness and another taste of paradise.
All that said, I am not sure that more than a small minority of women have what it takes to master the art, but even so, a little bit of effort might yield impressive results.
*The Wave is the precursor to the truly female, vaginal orgasm. Women must learn to embrace it for their own pleasure as well as that of their man.
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OMIG sick sick sick… I couldn’t even read over all the details about that woman. “Thou shalt not judge” but some of the most awful behavior I’ve ever heard of…
No surprise that woman is on anti-depressants. With what she’s doing with her body her mental issues will only get worse.
WOMEN ARE NOT WIRED FOR SEXUAL ACTIVITY LIKE MEN. Women have a different hormonal make-up and different brains altogether. We have more oxytocin and all sorts of other things, and doing what someone like she does will throw her whole system out of whack.
Gross gross gross…. yuck. What weird people, what’s wrong with them? Both her and her husband.
In the old days these types of people would be outcasts from society. Nowadays it’s almost unbelievable to think that they can find support.
People like this are living out total lies based on suppressing their own insecurities and unhappiness with quick thrills. Any happiness they feel is very fleeting and probably sort of fake.
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Barbara Ehrenreich (“Nickle and Dimed”) wrote an long article for Time in 1999 or 2000, available through Google I think, about how women should forget marriage, and engage in a series of short, passionate affairs while other people raised their kids. That marriage itself should be illegal and sexual passion should be the ONLY reason why people should stick around, and then not for long.
Just why other people should raise the kids of spoiled Upper Class White women was never spelled out. Nor how chaos and negative messages by the mother’s actions of pursuing Sex over Kids would not result in a rash of teen pregnancies and male thuggery was also not explained. Ehrenreich herself is divorced, and her son works at NPR as some executive.
Most of the Liberal SWPL culture is women wanting to be 18 and beautiful and pursued by guys absent responsibility forever.
Chuck — Order, or avoiding raw fights over women, requires suppressing basic sexual desires and instincts among both men and women. Monogamy and the nuclear family, along with a healthy dose of suppression of the Big Man and most women, has been the best solution so far and far superior to polygamy, either soft (West Africa) or hard (19th Century Utah/Mormons, Muslims). Most men would like to cheat, but let’s face it, lack any real attraction for most women. Joe Average is not the problem, he’s about as sexy as a cold bowl of oatmeal. It’s Mr. Big from Sex and the City who’s the problem. HE needs suppressing, along with women.
Z — Spot on there is nothing more shocking to women already than being invisible to women when they age out of attractiveness.
Chic — This is the internet age. The kids playmates will make SURE the kids know every sordid detail of the wife’s fooling around. Kids are as cruel as can be. The boy will be in fights EVERY DAY and the girl will be at risk for suicide. But hey, the woman sure had great sex huh? Glad to see her priorities were straight. Herself before her kids.
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Dam welmer nice job.
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whiskey: If you’ve addressed this point before, I will try to pay attention this time. Mr Big does what Mr Sheik does, except he doesn’t have to officially marry the females. And the difference is…?
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Kick a Bitch–
No. Don’t remotely agree.
I’ve had tons of fun with different kinds of women outside the bedroom, as well as in it. I like women as friends too. Flirty friends.
But … the grain of truth is … men have to keep the leadership role or upper hand in a relationship or it starts to turn to shiit … and if they really lose it, things turn that way damn quick these days. (They probably always turned at least somewhat that way eventually.)
Fifty years ago our culture taught all men this — though of course some were way better at playing the role and doing the deeds than others. Now it teaches the opposite, at least to the white mainstream.
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Roissy,
Just curious,
When you are out and say meet a chick like this (total slut or worse yet married cheating slut) how do you separate out/disconnect what you know you need to do tactically in terms of gaming them to get the lay versus the true contempt you would have for them as a person. I would think staying congruent here would be difficult, or do you just shift 100% into game mode and forget what a despicable human being you are dealing with?
As an aside question, I’m curious how one maybe separates out alpha versus beta behavior such as politeness for example when trying to pick up chicks versus doing your job in the workplace. My sense is that alpha/PUA/player attitudes and behavior are not best for an office environment with alot of females, but maybe I am wrong here.
FWIW, I’m a beta (nerd in high school) who looks very alpha now (6’3″ bodybuilder build) and I think I have alot of the body language and behaviors down but I slip alot. I get the sense that I come across incongruent often.
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Thanks, Roissy. It was beautiful, but it’s like a crown of thorns or stigmata — it’s as though I was smitten by God.
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>>>>
Bhetti;
whiskey: If you’ve addressed this point before, I will try to pay attention this time. Mr Big does what Mr Sheik does, except he doesn’t have to officially marry the females. And the difference is…?
>>>>
Nice one! In a marriage where there are multiple wives, the woman is taken care of and has a family who has her back. Sure she has to share her man but he’s still responsible for her even as she ages.
The modern day Mr. Big player gets all the goods with none of the responsibility, it seems.
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In being different sometimes it allows us to be different and truly blaze a path through life.
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“””””””””””””on April 22, 2009 at 10:52 pm lovelysexybeauty
Nice one! In a marriage where there are multiple wives, the woman is taken care of and has a family who has her back. Sure she has to share her man but he’s still responsible for her even as she ages.””””””””””””””””
This is a model I can agree with.
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I read Ehrenreichs “Nickled and Dimed”. I thought it was the ravings of a spoiled child. Her premise seemed to be that a woman should be able to move to a new city entirely on her own (or with some kids), take an entry level job requiring no skills and from that be able to afford a nice place to live, full health benefits, and quality daycare. With no skills.
Her failure to find a cushy, well paying job as soon as she got off the bus added up in her mind as an indictment of American Liberties.
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lovelysexybeauty
You have heard of American (and UK) divorce, right?
What threats does the mid level oil Sheik worth 50 million face if he plays post marriage in London or the Cote D’Azure?
What threats does Mr. Wall Street kinda Big worth 50 million face if he does the same thing in his playgrounds?
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eep! i’m scared! someone hold me and someone else slay the angry slut-dragon!
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“I was looking through Errant Wife’s blog. Her husband’s known since like June 2007. The fucking moron just stays with her and whines.”
Really? Is it possible that she just made that up?
If he knows, then he has grounds to damage her, despite the divorce laws.
I think that whole blog is fiction, written by some feminist or a gay blogger. Not a woman with kids.
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amanda–
Nope, we don’t need to slay her.
Just kick her out without any money form us.
Is that too much to ask?
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“”””””””””””on April 22, 2009 at 11:01 pm amanda
eep! i’m scared! someone hold me and someone else slay the angry slut-dragon!
“””””””””””””””””””
The slut dragon has been beyond slayed. More like fillayed alive.
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Was talking about blog.
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Welmer–
Nicely done.
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Mike
If she’s so disgusting and despicable, why are you so desperate to be with her? Furthermore, how do you think such women would exist if there weren’t men like you willing to fuck them? You’re in no position to look down on them as long as you’re enabling them.
This problem disappears once you realize that the alpha/beta dichotomy is an illusion, created for the sole purpose of allowing people to feel superior to everyone by declaring themselves”alphas” and everyone else “betas.”
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>>>>
dougjnn
You have heard of American (and UK) divorce, right?
What threats does the mid level oil Sheik worth 50 million face if he plays post marriage in London or the Cote D’Azure?
What threats does Mr. Wall Street kinda Big worth 50 million face if he does the same thing in his playgrounds?
>>>>
I don’t know the history behind Bhetti making the coment she did. But it struck a nerve with me in terms of people in the West who criticize polygamy particularly the Islamic kind (I’m not Muslim but am familiar with its practices and history).
America and the UK are western societies which put a lot of emphasis on the individual and independence. Many women are fine not being part of a family unit or married to a man.
Many eastern socities are more community based. Women and men believe in living together and being a part of a greater unit like the family. They believe that is the best way to live and be happy.
A sheik who fools around outside of marriage could probably be slapped with paternity, I don’t know because of sovereignty and extradition laws. But I don’t think that sort of fooling around should be compared to a polygamist who actually marries additional women and upholds his position as responsible for those additional women. In Islam this includes things like treating all of them equally, even if he has his favorites.
So I agree it’s not a good comparison with Western societies where the laws overwhelmingly protect the individual. It’s way too easy to get a divorce in the UK and USA I think, but for many people in these countries marriage doesn’t really mean what it used to any more.
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super fucking annoying autistic cunt with zero feminine qualities:
You are one very bitter overly emotional man.
passion is emotional, chic. a powerful man is full of passion.
and don’t mistake my shitting all over you for generic bitterness.
it’s not women i unleash my sadistic glory upon, it’s individuals, man or woman, who have earned it, like yourself. i’m sure it has not gone unnoticed by you that i don’t give shit to most of the other women here. you are a special retard case.
Your parents must have really fucked you up.
let me tell you about my mother… BLAM!
Women give up a lot when it comes to career, body, time,sleep,cleaning, etc…
men give up all those things to. men work more hours per week than women, and the domestic chores according to the latest studies are evenly split between husband and wife.
so as per usual you are full of shit.
Roissy.
did i say you could address me by name?
Until recently women didn’t receive large divorce settlements.
no fault divorce, alimony, asset theft, and imbalanced child custody arrangements have been the law of the land for at least 40 years. that is enough time to impress upon women that marriage is a better deal for them than for men.
You are getting overly emotional about something that will most likely never happen to you.
nah, i don’t think i’m getting cruel enough.
you dumb fucking blockheaded full spectrum autistic unfeminine shibboleth spewing sack of cunty horseshit.
there, that’s better.
Maybe, maybe not
wrong answer.
but if the kids don’t know that mom cheated,
they’ll know. they always do.
they will wonder why dad kicked her on the st.
i repeat for the slower members of the studio audience (mostly you): if the wife is concerned about the kids’ mental state she should have thought about it before whoring herself out. the wife’s whoring and subsequent family dissolution is not the husband’s moral crisis.
Your hatred of women is duly noted
correction: my hatred of stupid obstinate fucks like yourself duly noted.
hope that clears things up.
because Whiskey has said the same thing in the past regarding (children first) and you failed to jump on him.
do you really think i spend the time to read every single comment on this blog? i didn’t read any comments by whiskey about child support, but if he had written what you did i would have called him out on it. now, for the record, i would probably give him less of my sadistic torment than i normally give you, but that’s only because whiskey is a commenter with a proven history of possessing a basic grasp of logic and fairness, where you have an unbroken history on my blog of endless illogic, dumbassery, and stubborn obstinacy in the face of irrefutable arguments to the contrary.
I’m convinced that there is something more to your hatred of chiclet besides a bad experience and awful parents.
you are a magnificent cunt, chic. a truly stupendous bitchcunt of cosmically cunty proportions. what have you left to turn to except flailing wildly at a remote psychological diagnosis of my relationship with my parents based on nothing but your hurt ego?
hint: this does not mean i think all women are as cunty as you are. just the opposite, in fact.
PS. dougjn said he wouldn’t be as harsh as I am. Yet you didn’t jump on him either.
i don’t read every comment. especially not when the comments get into the triple digits. you keep pounding on this idiotic meme that i’m a hypocrite for shitting on you while giving a pass to others for saying the same things you say. the problem with your pet theory is that i don’t read all these other commenters you have convinced yourself i read, and of those other commenters i do read who i disagree with i don’t encounter the sort of knuckleheaded aggressive stupidity that i do with you. when i do encounter it, as with say DA or tokyohumpshisfist, i give them equal if not worse shit than i give you. funny that that should escape your notice, cunt.
in conclusion, you are indeed a very special short bus case, chic.
Your bias against women is very telling.
your bias against my torment of you is very telling.
You are pathetic in more ways than one.
keep telling me how you don’t care what i think of you. it’s always good for a laugh.
PPS Stop paying 40 bucks for the John Denver haircut because it does nothing for you.
did you write that whilst sitting on a zucchini?
That’s all for you !
i’ll let you know when i’m through, chic.
oh did i mention that you’re a cunt?
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@dougjnn
“Nope, we don’t need to slay her.
Just kick her out without any money form us.
Is that too much to ask?”
No.
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Keep in mind the problem isn’t so much her cheating on the guy. The problem is if he divorces her, she still pretty much gets everything. When the man cheats he pays, when the woman cheats, he still pays. Go over to Glenn Sacks’ blog for more info.
Also, I wonder if those kids are his?
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let me tell you about my mother… BLAM!
I knew it! You’re a fuckin’ replicant!
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I followed the link and this is part of the one of the comments:
“ffs, you are largely what is wrong with the world at present. have you no shame? you have three kids and a loving husband. how could you completely and totally betray them in the manner you do. you have absolutely zero honor or integrity.
grow the fuck up. ”
Who laid down the moral law to this woman? Who was this paragon of virtue?
Yep, it was Kick a Bitch.
This woman has gone so low that someone named “Kick a Bitch” successfully claim the moral high ground from her.
I laughed for a while after that.
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chicnoir –
“You didn’t use bcontrol or a condom, you chose to get pissy drunk, you ate and ate(bar thyroid con) etc.. Man the hell up and just say I fucked up.”
There’s a reason people say “Man the hell up” and not “be a woman about it”.
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Yea steve funniest comment though from kick a bitch was the one after that.
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gsgregi,
Yeah, but that’s more expected.
When Kick a Bitch, the guy who recommends going WWF on a woman in a bar as a pickup method, goes all moralistic on someone, that’s hilarious because it’s so out of line.
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vulgarian:
Why bother, unless you say this strictly for rhetorical effect?
personal amusement.
Indifference is much more cutting than contempt, hate, or anger
not always. not even very often. indifference is ignored absent context.
because it does not even recognize any similarity between the object of indifference and the speaker.
sometimes blasting an enemy is more effective than forgetting he exists.
It’s like I don’t get angry or contemptuous of an ant because there is no level of empathy or understanding between it and me.
an ant is not attempting to sway opinion with an avalanche of lies and cheesy sophistry.
It is simply irrelevant to my life one way or another and tomorrow if it dies in concentrated sunlight under a magnifying glass, or conversely goes on to lead an extremely fulfilling ant life it means nothing to me.
Indifference is where it is at.
woud indifference to tojo have worked?
So if the cunt in question wins the lottery tomorrow or dies from 54 post-rape stab wounds inflicted by a gang of AIDS-ridden Haitian heroin addicts, it’s all the same to me.
hypothetical: what if the cunt had her biker boyfriend beat you up for no good reason? i’d imagine you’d dance a little happy dance if she died from heroin OD rather than win the lottery.
or: we aren’t spock clones.
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mike:
Roissy,
Just curious,
When you are out and say meet a chick like this (total slut or worse yet married cheating slut) how do you separate out/disconnect what you know you need to do tactically in terms of gaming them to get the lay versus the true contempt you would have for them as a person.
it’s really not an issue. first, i dont have contempt for regular old sluts, i merely point out the ramifications of their lifestyle choice. so dealing with a bonafide slut isn’t a moral crisis for me.
second, my responsibility is to the lay, not the cleansing of her mortal soul.
I would think staying congruent here would be difficult, or do you just shift 100% into game mode and forget what a despicable human being you are dealing with?
keep in mind that genuine sluttiness won’t be confirmed until some time has passed. at that point (long after you have tasted of her womanhood) you can decide whether it’s worth the downsides to date a girl with a slutty history.
As an aside question, I’m curious how one maybe separates out alpha versus beta behavior such as politeness for example when trying to pick up chicks versus doing your job in the workplace. My sense is that alpha/PUA/player attitudes and behavior are not best for an office environment with alot of females, but maybe I am wrong here.
partly true. you can be a charming mofo in the office, you just have to tone it back a bit. case in point: elevator flirting.
FWIW, I’m a beta (nerd in high school) who looks very alpha now (6’3″ bodybuilder build) and I think I have alot of the body language and behaviors down but I slip alot. I get the sense that I come across incongruent often.
incongruency is the vaj killer.
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Well, if the blog is really written by a woman then all I have to say about that is, you get what you pay for.
If it’s important to a man to marry an honorable woman, then his selection criteria is going to reflect that. So we know what was important to her husband: hole + image + social convenience.
Since a hole can easily be bought, so long as she’s fulfilling her role as a social accessory, she’s keeping her end of that shady deal.
Welmer eloquently wrote, “A woman who can work a man in this way is guaranteed mastery over his lust. Whenever he feels a twang of desire for anything or anyone, he will run to the woman who provides him with such unparalleled pleasure. In this way, she will have mastery over his undying desire, and if he transgresses, he will crawl back begging for forgiveness and another taste of paradise. ”
If only…
…but alas, mastery of the art is too often trumped by social convenience.
No matter how great a woman is in bed, if she’s not someone a beta would want to be seen with, the best she’ll get out of him is late night visits. If it comes to a choice, he’ll chose to give up that perfect pussy forever to get the girl of his mother’s dreams.
Such is the nature of sheeple.
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Mike:
“When you are out and say meet a chick like this (total slut or worse yet married cheating slut) how do you separate out/disconnect what you know you need to do tactically in terms of gaming them to get the lay versus the true contempt you would have for them as a person. I would think staying congruent here would be difficult, or do you just shift 100% into game mode and forget what a despicable human being you are dealing with?”
Last year, I saw an “inner game” themed presentation by NYC social man Christian Hudson, who is not a mirror of my construction but has many positive, enviable personality traits. On the subject of “shit tests,” he responded to me, loosely, “You have to decide who you truly want to be: the ladies’ man who has sex with every female, or the ideal eligible bachelor who is looking for his dreamgirl.” In my mind, this goes right up there with any Roissy maxim.
I had asked him when one should finally stand his ground on “shit tests” and tell a girl to go fuck herself. I interpreted his diplomatic answer, in economic terms and through my own lens, to be to hold steady if she is a seven or below, but persist if she is an eight or above. We all have our own sliding scales, so we may behave accordingly.
This was brilliant advice to me at the time that influenced my rudimentary game strategy, and I’m sure those repercussions remain within me to this day. I hope I’ve relayed a fraction of that profundity.
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“””””””””””””””””the linked site 5. You have a small cock.
Hate to break it to you, darling, but all that ‘cavernous cunt’ stuff you are spouting – not so much a problem with the ladies…”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
I just thought this was funny as I am pretty sure the woman would not think it was nice to make fun of people born retarded or with no arms or would she?
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Then i guess opposite it can be sewn up. There is a cure.
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Gunny, or maybe she doesn’t have much experience with women.
Some girls, I’d be scared I’d pull back a nub. Whatever other problems I may have had with Roissy’s slut tells post, that bit wasn’t one.
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@dougjnn
-I’d be interested to see where you’re getting the statistics that most women instigate divorces. Please tell.
@Bhetti
Why is she like this? Well, we probably don’t know. It could be in her blog somewhere. If, like someone said, she got married when she was 20, possibly because she was pregnant, that could have a lot to do with it. “Haste makes waste”?
I don’t know what the sides you’re referring to are. Male vs female? I try and avoid taking sides…it’s why I can’t take women’s studies classes anymore because too much of the content of the class has become anti-men, which I don’t think feminism at heart is about.
I wasn’t aware that as a female I had to approve of everything done by someone of my gender. Do I like romance novels? No, I don’t. I find most of them to be written in a style that doesn’t suit me. They suit other people, but I personally would rather read something else.
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OMG I love your rant, so incredibly well said. The guy is a complete ‘fucktard’ & is obviously as intimidated as hell by women who are sexually confident and secure.
Since when has security and confidence turned into giving it up to every ass that passes my way, and then getting pissed because either an ass or a quality man decided i am only good for giving it, but not for a long term relationship?
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I actually wore mascara today in an effort to better bat my eyelashes alluringly. Pearl earrings to encourage him to give me a pearl necklace. My lucky high boots that say I will fuck you hard, bitch.This is my top game people and no one was there to appreciate it!
Even the empowered slut has no balls to do the approach…
Look at how “top game” is basically showing off the goods and hoping a man will come by and pump the goods.
Top game…
My ass.
that is the reason with slut stud thingy.
Man= Top game = Proactive, going and doing with skill.
Woman= top game = saying yes
Apparently more comments to come.
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I spent a lot of time in high school having sex I did not really want to have.
I had sex to create something – a feeling, a relationship, an image of myself, an attitude, a perception, an emotional space. Now when my husband wants to have sex with me – and he constantly badgers me – I feel liberated to say no. Liberated to say no in a way that I did not when I was younger.
So, her past is not her past now, is it?
The husband is not getting sexed also due to her past, is he not?
Even if it is purely due to his betatude, is he still not getting less than the dicks she had in her past? For the infinite price of a lifetime spent with that woman? would he not feel better about this situation if she had not sucked and fucked all this dick because she could not say no?
Hasn’t he put himself in the position of her “I can now say no” by comitting?
Dont fucking marry!
(that I have to explain to my father one day.)
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I would get into situations where I felt bad saying no, where it was easier to say yes, where it would just seem like I might as well. But now I don’t want to have sex that I don’t want to have – and I am sorry if my husband is not happy with that – truly I am – but I am not going to force myself. Forcing myself: closing my eyes and thinking of England, spreading to keep him happy, makes me feel like a prostitute. It makes me feel dirty. Fucking my adorable younger boyfriend does not make me feel guilty, or dirty or anything other than free.
As I was living with a promiscuous girl for a while, this strikes a vein.
Fucking unknown dudes was for mutual satisfaction of sexual needs, but sleeping with the boyfriend was dependent on him deserving it etc… GOD I LOVE MY FREEDOM!
so, emptying the balls of Billy Bartender in the loo is freedom, while satisfying the needs of your supporting husband is dirty?
What if he would go and give his “support” to the neighbor’s wife and let you hunger?
Oh, that is domestic abuse.. forgot.
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kim: I’m not saying you have to approve of romance novels, especially after you’ve tried a nice varied share of the keepers (when they’re bad, they’re vile, which isn’t particularly representative), just not dismiss. I can utterly dislike Dickens but not consider him inferior or in fact — all classics as inferior based on him and me disliking Don Quixte/The Iliad as welll — or label people’s writing inspiring my Dickensian disgust therfore inferior. Many factions have used romance novels as a shorthand to both attack female intelligence and sexuality, including some feminists and traditionalists. I urge caution.
As for the “sides”, we are talking about this comment:
It’s unfair to make generalizations about women based on this woman’s blog. Women who act like her (of all ages, but especially past 30) are not the norm by any means.
It seemed like you were defending women here. I didn’t think you genuinely thought that people actually said ‘all women are sluts’ or something like this.
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doug: Will have to do some research on theoretical Islamic divorce vs. what actually happens, especially when a sheik gets involved. Still, would’ve thought the equivalent of a Mr Sheik being sensible to have the extramartials abroad is a Mr Big sensible enough not to marry. I suppose this is aside from social pressure or for the sake of image? Notice his Great Fear of the M word; it’s an impractical female fantasy to change this.
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and last before I enter the 276 comments,
About men who claim “Accept female sexuality, accept their slutness, don’t shame them” etc, there are two groups,
1. The manginas… If they are lucky, they get a pity fuck, once a year on mother’s day…
2. The till-death playboys… these guys have no interest in the “wife”, “gf” concept. For them the slut/madonna concept of women is uninteresting as they have no interest in encountering the madonna side. the sluttier the women are, more pussy there is. Fucks everything attractive. Friend’s wives, girlfriends included, because he knows the slut is for him, the madonna is for the husband. So there is no cheating. (notice how close this is to female think)
I generalized very very broadly,
but for a man of quality who still one day want kids or so,
He has to have the madonna whore standard, and know that sluts are good for slutting and wife is a different kind.
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Bhetti
But what about Mr. Big wanting children in the West, esp. the Anglosphere West?
Note I’m not trying to have the mother of my children have nothing, especially if I move on. Then I should take care of her. Not give her half of a whole lot, but take good care.
Note again that I’d not want to leave a good wife and mother at all. I wouldn’t want to leave her for a much hotter young girl. I would want to play with that girl, and then if she was good, give her something. But I wouldn’t want to leave my good wife and mother of my kids.
I think most alphas feel similarly.
There are some wives that have to be left by any self respecting man with options though. As wives have ALWAYS insisted there are men who need to be.
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To SparkWords
However, even at this early stage, the modern “liberated slut” movement is starting to look a lot like the war on drugs. It’s going to get worse before it gets better, doubtless, but anyone doing more than an eyedropper’s worth of reading on the matter can see that the PUA/gender traditionalist (what’s a better name?) community is by far more intelligent, articulate, and rational than the…well, I can’t think of a better “case in point” than the woman Roissy just eviscerated. Not that intelligence/articulation/ration counts these days – it’s just worth noting. Keep up the good work.
It is analogous to game.
Let’s say we are observing a man gaming a woman he perceives as more attractive than him, and a woman gaming a man who she perceives more attractive than her..
Even if the woman has more chance of succeeding short term, the game you will observe will be observing a chessmaster on one side, and a kid with a lollipop on the other.
I have come to the conclusion that even most of the attractive women dont have the game (other than physical attractiveness) that the Average Joe has.
If not born natural, any man who wants to get laid at some point, needs to learn. Applying logic, analysis, different points of view etc. This then translates itself into the logical approach in the PUA/MRA/MGOTW etc.
Because to succeed, men need to apply logic to their lives, they need to analyse, learn and apply.
Women also do that, but with topics you hear them talking about, topics which you would loose nothing in life if you had not known they existed.
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To Mike
Of course, once you take the redpill with respect to women and relationships there is no going back.
Welcome to the outer boundaries, where you after some time of initial pain, maybe regret and suffering, will be flowing freely in the orbit of life.
After the red pill takes effect, you will be able to see past the curtain of deception pulled over your eyes by the matrix.
Women, female mystery, female hunch, sixth sense, all will become predictable,
you will know the female reaction to any action or happening before the reaction happens.
I am there.
dunno what the next orbit level will be.
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Slut strikes back?
Dear sluts:
Before attempting to accuse someone of being an immoral hypocrite, do yourself a favor and make sure you’re not in a glass house. Or in Errant Wife’s case, a glass trailer.
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What American women fail to grasp,
One very specific fault with American women. At least the status-climbing college educated types: their voice.
Foreign women — and probably all women in history prior to feminism — talk with a demure softness that bespeaks of their feminine charms.
And American women? They talk with that ballsy, cocksure huskiness. Zero charm. Zero. (To be fair, there are exceptions. And those exceptions drive guys wild, even if they aren’t beauties, because there are so few of them.)
My o m e g a male friend Ace recently traveled to a Latin American country where he happened to enjoy the company of professionals. Upon his return, he and I drove up to some big store and walked behind a group of young American women. Who were strutting with a swagger, talking loudly, cursing, and chewing gum. He looked at me and said with quiet disgust:
“Look at those vulgarians. A Latin American whore has more class that a middle class Amerian girl.”
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“My husband: despite our problems, and for all his faults and mine.
My children: beyond all reason, for their delightful selves.
My friends: Hepatica, Tallulah and the redhead (who behaves herself and therefore gets no screen time at all) for who they are and for the unquestioning and, when needed, questioning support. For the fact that I can tell them every detail of my life and they don’t judge – they listen and they love.
Myself: unapologetically.
Today, my darlings, you should be your own valentine. Roses from a sweetheart – either the one you married or the one you fuck – no matter how delightful they are, should be icing on the cake. You should complete your own life.
Happy Valentine’s Day.” From her blog post “What I Love”.
A self-justifying machine, she rationalizes her robbing her husband of his dignity while still enjoying his emotional and financial support, company, and aid in keeping up appearances by saying ‘but i really doooo loooove hiiiim’.
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Am I the only person in the world to have a great marriage? I have a prenup, don’t have any kids, and bang the wife vigorously five times a week. She looks great and feels great. And we’re 10 years into the marriage. She’s happy and I’m happy. And we have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy as far as my time outside the home. Marriage can be great, but you need to marry the right person, get a prenup, avoid having children, and have a tight game so you can get ass on the side.
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the only point to marry is having children.
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What is the point of marriage if you are cheating, and you don’t have any kids? Why not remain good friends?
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I met her when I lived abroad. When I was ready to come back to the U.S., I wanted to bring her with me. For that to happen, we had to get married. So we did. And I’ve got very few complaints. I’m not advocating marriage. In fact, I tell my friends and colleagues who are considering it to think long and hard about it. I was lucky (met a great woman), but I was also smart (got a prenup, didn’t have children), and I learned, over the years, how to keep her happy (lots of sex, LTR game). Luck, good decisions, game, and a foreign woman = recipe for marital bliss.
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It’s extra-important to be smart with foreign brides. For one, you probably had to sign an affidavit stating that you are financially responsible for her (sponsor) for the next 10 years.
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Someone to r laundry and talk to?
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Where it all started:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/books/22garn.html?_r=1
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There are so many things wrong with Errant Wife (a.k.a. Liberated Slut). However, she’s too far into the self-deception (and believing of her own fan-base) that she can’t see it.
However, karma is a bitch. She’s a train wreck waiting to happen. Once she hits the wall and finds that her sagging tits and ass no longer draw the male attention she craves, she’s left with nothing. As one reader above put it: there are women who find their self-esteem between their ears and ones who find it between their legs. Errant wife is in the later camp. And once the loose chasm between her legs doesn’t have the same tug it once did… well… the image of that aging spinster isn’t pretty.
She’s a further example of the self-professed woman of independence and “liberated sexuality” who, nevertheless, can’t shake her fundamental dependence on… yes… male attention.
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Yes, you must exercise caution with foreign women. Fortunately, I lived in the country for 4 years and had a strong sense of the culture. We dated for 2 1/2 years before we married (including a year of living together), so she wasn’t exactly a mail-order bride. I knew her a lot better than most men understand their women when they get married. If I hadn’t felt good about our long-term prospects, I wouldn’t have pulled the trigger. Hell, I wouldn’t even have dated her, because I had my choice of women when I was there.
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Thursday,
Jennifer Scanlon, the author of the book in the link you sent, is pretty hot. According to her bio, she is about 51-years-old. A women’s studies professor who looks like that….there is hope!
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chris rock has a bit about how women can lull men into admitting they cheated “i know you did it. just admit it. it will be alright. i already know.” the moment the guy admits it… bang! they got you.
that’s exactly what this form of feminism is, a trick. it’s women luring men to “get in touch with your feminine sides… ditch the double standards… accept us and all our emotions… cater to our needs… so forth and so on.” and the moment you give in… bang! you’re dead in the water. you’re desexualized in her eyes and she’s off to find someone who can still excite her.
ABC is one thing, but don’t forget to ABP: always be pimpin’.
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The trick is to never admit to anything. If you haven’t cheated, and she thinks you have, neither deny nor admit to anything. Never let her know the truth, and be mysterious. Deep down, she doesn’t want to know the truth. If you keep her happy, she’ll appreciate the mystery.
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The lessons here, gentlemen, are two…
1. If you’re not married but see it in your future, you must CHOOSE WISELY. As Dave from Hawaii and others have said, you’ve got to screen for a woman least likely to turn out like this one here. I can’t enumerate all the qualities or signals you should look for. But the simplest, most basic advice for you young bucks is simply to not marry the first girl you fall in love with or who spreads her legs for you. I see too many young guys who do just that and it’s a recipe for disaster. That’s rule number one.
2. Next, if you ARE married or in an LTR, you must, must, must maintain game. I don’t mean to say you need to wet your pickle outside your LTR. That’s not it at all. Rather, you simply need to avoid the gravitational pull of betatude that comes with any LTR.
Here’s the short version:
Fundamentally, a woman’s biology tells her to start domesticating a man shortly after their breeding. (Nevermind birth control, if any; her biology is the same regardless). This is nature’s way of making sure you switch to a provider role and help perpetuate her genes. Indeed, she actually subconsciously strives to make you less attractive to other women, less likely to wander, less likely divert your resources to further another’s genes instead.
However, if you follow this role completely, you’ll become less attractive to your LTR partner for future breeding! It’s ironic, heh? Nature’s a bitch, I know. But this is why her legs are open wide at the start of a relationship but then clamp closed a few years into it. You’ve followed your wife’s instructions and actually become less sexually attractive to her in so doing.
But leave it to the woman to disavow such efforts. It’s now YOUR fault for becoming boring, uninteresting, and less of a challenge. (But to be somewhat fair, she’s not aware of her genesis in the process that made you so.)
I have little doubt that’s what happened to Errant Wife and her hubby. On top of a self-esteem that starts and stops between her legs, she’s successfully achieved her goal of creating a betaized husband who will help ensure her genes make it at least one more generation. Now, she’s disavowed her role in the process and the outcome justifies her bad behavior.
The solution? Married gentleman, you must, musT, muST, MUST maintain game. You must learn to pass your wife’s/GF’s shit tests, remain a challenge, be a leader of men, show social proof, be a mystery, call her on her shit, be assertive in the bedroom, flirt, show independence, read the emotion behind her words. In short, you need to ignore what she SAYS to do and instead do what NEEDS to be done. …And ultimately, pass along these learnings to your sons and daughters.
I fear the Errant Wife exemplifies the path of least resistance in our western culture and the consequences aren’t pretty. Moreover, the religion of feminism makes it quite likely that women will be incapable of righting the ship.
Gentlemen, man-up. The future of the family unit–and the preservation of social cohesion in general–depends on you!
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“The solution? Married gentleman, you must, musT, muST, MUST maintain game. You must learn to pass your wife’s/GF’s shit tests, remain a challenge, be a leader of men, show social proof, be a mystery, call her on her shit, be assertive in the bedroom, flirt, show independence, read the emotion behind her words. In short, you need to ignore what she SAYS to do and instead do what NEEDS to be done. …And ultimately, pass along these learnings to your sons and daughters.”
MNL,
You have said it all here. I had some natural elements of game when I met my wife, but I actually learned the rest from my wife, simply through trial and error. Gauging her response to things, I started amping certain habits, and she became happier and happier. My wife, indirectly, taught me game….fortunately for us both, I was a good student.
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There was a married female commentor who a few months ago who made a great point:
That in a marriage, a man must feel like he owns his family. His wife, his children. He must feel that they are his. In other words, he must be the alpha of the house.
Because what happens to men whose wives wear pants in the family is that these guys withdraw to things over which they do feel some ownership: their work, hobby, car, etc.
And no one is happy then. Not the wife, who feels like she has an AWOL husband and cranks up her nagging. Not the kids, who are confused by the rudderless home life. And not the man himself, who feels like a trapped rat or an unappreciated mule.
It is only when a man feels that his family belongs to him that he will die and kill for his wife and his kids.
A man will only take a bullet for the things he loves. And he loves only the things that are his.
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> A man will only take a bullet for the things he loves. And he loves only the things that are his.
Indeed. It’s the reason why democracies can vote for conscription: family –> nation.
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I love this chick. I want to meet women EXACTLY LIKE HER. She is not Roissy’s enemy; she is a living, breathing, sweating confirmation of his entire fucking spiel.
This was the second post of hers that I read:
“My husband wants me to keep my pants on, he really does, but FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK, I want to stray, I want you to fuck me hard (and I mean all of you, not just him). I want to have a glass of wine and look at you seductively over the edge and then I want you to GIVE IT TO ME. Yeah, like that baby. Is that too much to ask?
It is not that I don’t value the relationship I have, especially now that those anti-depressants have kicked in, but really, honestly, truthfully, I am not a monogamist. Not at my core, not in my soul. I will come home to you, I will live my life with you – but I really want to suck him off…is that ok?
Fuck fuck fuck. Yes you, how about now?”
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This is also why multicultural communities fail. In part due to the peoples’ withdrawal from public involvement because they don’t feel that the communty is theirs any more.
Except for the SWPL’ers, who fancy themselves managers / social engineers of the balkanized society.
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classic classic.
good on ya roissy!
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projectile menstreuating should be taught in HS health class!
ROFL
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Ok, I have some things I have to say. Strap in, this will be a bit long.
Women must understand, that the primary things a Man cares about is whether she looks good, one, and whether she can fuck good, two. Assuming one is satisfied, two becomes very important. As PA has said many times before, ideally the Woman should be roughly a point or so above the Man in the looks dept, comparitively speaking.
Then we get to the good part.
So, for Chic, and all other Ladies in the forum, please take note. I’m just keepin’ it real.
1. Do your Kegels religiously: this will ensure that you have a nice tight pussy, and believe you me, Men LOVE a tight pussy, especially one you can undulate at will. Most Women begin to get loose down there either after they hav kids and/or after 35 or so, and it is NOT FUN for most Men, unless you and/or them are into Fisting-if so, you got nothing to worry about. Barring that, you need to speand at least half a day w/a quality pair of Ben Wa Balls up your cooch to keep it toned. There’s a very good reason why Asian Women are so in demand.
2. Learn how to LOVE sucking Dick: ask any guy, a Woman who can do this on a Vanessa Del Rio level is a rarity indeed. And it is one of thee most sought after things a Man wants. Practice on bananas, cucumbers, pickles, dildoes, etc. Learn how to get past your gag reflex with ease-the real trick is in getting your tongue outta the way. Swallowing the load is a huge plus. Deepthroating on the regular puts you in the Top Ten Percent of Sexual Women in the Known Universe. Watch VDR’s videos for tips on how she did it, and others, you can do the research. And don’t forget, practice, practice, practice.
A Woman having a pussy with a life of its own and also having mad sword swallowing skills need never want for Male company. Believe that.
Now, to Chuck’s points…
Maybe its just me, but w/all due respect, I think a lot of you White guys live in fear too much. Take the Errant Wife-if I were her hubbie, I don’t give a fuck what the law says, what the cops say, what the Pope says-she ain’t doing me dirty like that, period. Doesn’t matter what happens to me, there IS something to be said for a Man’s basic dignity in this world. Its like what Tony Mantegna said: all a Man’s got in this world is his word and his balls, and he shouldn’t break em for nobody. Aint that the truth.
I find out EW’s doing that to me and my kids, her shit will be on the sidewalk when she gets home, the locks changed and she ain’t getting a dime from me, I’ll give it all away to charity before I let that happen and gladly go to jail. She should consider herself fortunate that I didn’t give all her shit to charity and kicked her ass to the curb with nothing but the clothes on her back. And if she even look like coming near me and mine, she will be taking her life into her hands-and I will not guarantee her safety. Sure, the cops can get me, that won’t be hard to do. But not before I get her. After that, won’t matter much what happens. Will it?
See, what Women need to understand, in what I call the Kill Bill/Lara Croft Era, is that Men operate on some other stuff-you can literally flip a switch in a Man’s head, and its on. And trust me, the vast majority of Women will NOT win. All that stuff they see and hear about, that’s in the movies. Not in the realworld.
In the realworld guys put two in your head before turning the 9mm on himself, happens all the time.
So, Women like EW, need to understand, that if they’re smart, they’d end things the right way. Get a divorce, and then go do your thing. I predict that you’ll see a lot more murder-suicides of the type I just described, because Men are far and away more likely to say fuck it when they have reason to believe they can’t get a fair shake.
As for current divorce law, I think the jury’s in, and Women need to be honest about some things-even if they think its right, they need to be honest, that guys on average, DO get the shaft.
But that’s not the most important part.
The most important part Feminists/Women need to realize, is that a lot of Women are being unintentionally hurt, often for life, as a result of the divorce culture. Because of it, many guys will never marry, meaning that a corresponding Woman will never marry-and as well all know, the average older guy has a much better chance of spending his dotage with someone, than the average older Woman. The divorce culture is creating a lot of lonely Women.
There’s a reason why one is hardpressed to think of the female version of Bobby Fischer, and that’s because Women as a rule do not, or cannot, think 4, 5, 6 moves ahead; they cannot think of the many ways unintended consequences can come into play. For every Carrie Bradshaw, Oprah or Annie Couric there are millions of stressed out, beatdown, lonely Women, who don’t have lifes of Riley, but lives of quiet desperation. They found out the hard way, the costs, the real costs, of “liberation”-they pay, so that a small number of Women may be “free”.
What a bargain!
Holla back
The Obsidian
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@ contrarian
If she’s so disgusting and despicable, why are you so desperate to be with her? Furthermore, how do you think such women would exist if there weren’t men like you willing to fuck them? You’re in no position to look down on them as long as you’re enabling them.
Where did I say I was “desperate to be with her”? Learn to read, and respond to the words on the page not what you read into them. FWIW, at the moment, I am in a monogamous relationship with a quality woman (both character and physical attractiveness) and although I certainly desire other women I wouldn’t act on it.
That said, I find this entire subject interesting from both an intellectual curiousity perspective, and also a pragmatic application perspective just to be prepared in case I find myself single.
You preface “If”. Do you believe that a married woman with children having continual, multiple affairs while being financially supported by her husband who is completely clueless, and who feels completely justified by it is despicable? If not, what type of behavior qualifies as despicable or are we supposed to “not judge” any behavior anymore?
Now if I am a SINGLE, UNATTACHED guy and I meet this woman and game her, and succeed in having sex with her, what moral trangression have I committed? I didn’t violate any vows or trust. SHE DID! Now personally, I’m not sure I’d get involved with a married woman. Had one proposition me once, and I passed. “As long as you are enabling them”? LOL. Give me a break. These are adults, not children, and they are responsible for the decisions they make. Again, to be clear, they are the ones breaking vows, cheating, and lying.
This problem disappears once you realize that the alpha/beta dichotomy is an illusion, created for the sole purpose of allowing people to feel superior to everyone by declaring themselves”alphas” and everyone else “betas.”
Just curious, if you believe that, then I wonder why you are here? As far as an illusion, I think you need to look in the mirror. I don’t believe the alpha/beta thing is a binary 0 or 1 either you are one or the other but more of a scale of 1-10, and alphaness is a combination of many things including physical appearance but more personality traits, body language, verbal interaction, etc. As a general principle, women prefer alpha men. The contrary proposition is absolutely ludicrous.
A few years back, I was sorta in between career type jobs with some personal stuff going on, and I worked as a bouncer for awhile (I’m tall and a bodybuilder so I have the physical appearance). That was when the light bulb first went on, as I had the opportunity to study and observe day after day after day the interaction between men and women, and which guys consistently got girls, and what types of behavior they had. That is REALITY, not an illusion.
Of course, retraining a lifetime of beta behavior and attitudes is no easy task, and regression (especially when you are in a LTR) is easy to fall into.
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Obsidian, y’all are assuming that her husband is the victim, but I’ve seen cases like this before.
She could be any of my potential bitches’ wife, and pretty much personifies at least 90% of my former subs’ wives.
Look at the woman. She’s a trophy…apparently a neglected one.
If a guy wants to be spanked like a bad boy or more conventionally shagged silly, but doesn’t want to alter the relationship dynamic with the trophy, the easiest thing for him to do is get his needs met elsewhere. Especially in the age of the internet, a guy can pretty much find whatever he likes if he’s not overly picky about looks.
…and seriously, most of you know, deep in your heart of hearts, that this “hot” thing is just a social front. Once you get your trophy, and make some socially acceptable offspring with her, skinny and socially convenient doesn’t mean as much to you as it used to. Like most of my would-be bitches, you’ll come out looking for what really turns you on.
Yeah Lurker, DTH, and maybe Lupo, I’m talking to you.
You will get tired of writing on rice paper with a pneumatic drill. By the time you are 45, you will figure it’s not even worth breaking a sweat.
…and when you do, a 25 year old looking for her daddy will be gently squeezing cucumbers in the grocery store…or a sweet, kind 30 year old who still has a heart even though her daddy left her for a squeezer (rhymes with skeezer) will be at the pub singing low along to _Lacrymosa_…
So he might be a victim, but I’d bet money that her self delusion isn’t allowing for the possibility that he lets her stay because he’s already doing Cigstache on the side.
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Nicole,
Sure, its certainly possible the scenario you describe. None of us knows for sure, and we may never know.
But, if things are as they’re presented, then girlfriend is clearly in the wrong-not because of her sexual needs, I don’t fault her for that. But for the way she went about it, not just for the sake of the hubbie, but also for that of the kids. Its only right that she cut things loose, and go on her way. Personally, I got no problem with that.
Otherwise, your suggestion notwithstanding, if I’m in such a situation, girlfriend is playing Russian Roulette…
O
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A MIDDLE-AGED PRINCESS GROWS UP
On the cusp of my 45th birthday, I made the mistake of looking in the mirror. It wasn’t the bathroom mirror, it was a photo I had from graduate school. I looked at myself 20 years ago and had a startling and clear epiphany. It wasn’t a happy moment. It was a terribly sad moment. It was so sad that I involuntarily burst into tears, something I haven’t done since the dark days of my divorce.
I looked at the photo and came to the conclusion that I had made a real mess of my life. I felt the utter misery of my life come in waves of sadness, regret, anger, and loneliness. For almost an hour I cried as I looked at the photo of a younger me. I was 24 with a fresh MBA from an excellent school. I was eager to conquer the business world. I was eager to prove that women could do anything. I was so much thinner. My clothes looked stylish, almost sexy. Of course the hair style was awful but that was the 80s and such styles could be forgiven. I saw the brightness in my eyes, the sparkle of life, of the great opportunities that were open to me. The world was there for my taking and I was ready.
But somehow, some way, it never came to be. My life evolved into something painful and difficult. But until that moment when I looked at my photo from over two decades ago, I always blamed someone else. It was never my fault for the bad decisions I made. Typically, it was the fault of men – my father, my boyfriends, my husband, my boss, my sons. Never, ever was it something that I had done. When I commiserated with my women friends, they always supported me. They even supported me when I had my affair, telling me that my husband was not giving me the attention that I needed. I read the women’s magazines and every article was about how women were always strong, intelligent, morally righteous, unable to make bad decisions. Worse, I believed that any of my needs, no matter how frivolous, no matter how many times I changed my mind, no matter how miserable I made the men in my life feel, were more important than anything – motherhood, career advancement, a healthy marriage, whatever.
I hate the world for teaching me those lessons. I remember complaining about how my husband never grew up. But as the tears streamed down my face, I came to the conclusion that I had never grown up. I never learned about compromise, trust, tolerance, niceness. I was a bitch, pure and simple. I know now that being a bitch is not about strength or independence. Being a bitch is about being repellent, unpleasant, unhappy, and lonely. Being a bitch is nothing more than being a spoiled princess who is too selfish or stupid to accept the joy in life.
I had become a fat, unpleasant, middle-aged princess because I had refused to grow up. Sure, I had taken on grown-up responsibilities (marriage, career, house, motherhood) but at the core of my psyche was a 13-year-old girl who stamped her feet and whined when she didn’t get her way. Of course, I had stopped whining years ago but I simply replaced the whining with emotional manipulation and ornery bitchiness. No wonder I was still single and my two teenaged sons spent all their free time with their father.
When I was growing up, being a dilettante feminist, I swallowed the standard line that women can have it all. I wanted it all and I wanted to make no compromises, to assume no sacrifices, and to feel completely validated in all of my lifestyle choices. The biggest mistake in my late teens and early 20s was to let other women – women whom I thought to be strong, independent, and intelligent – determine which lifestyle I was to follow. I was simply too spoiled and lazy to look inward, to embrace the kind of introspection necessary to find one’s own path in life, the path that could lead to real fulfillment and happiness.
I remember college well. It was a fun time and I thought, at the time, an enlightening time. The parties were exciting, the political debates intense, the string of boyfriends and casual sexual encounters pleasant. I studied hard and I played hard. I attended the campus feminist meetings and listened to diatribes from sturdy and self-righteous peers about the evils of masculinity. I learned to scorn men when I didn’t need them for selfish reasons – study partners, shoulders to cry on, willing sexual partners. But I was never hesitant to bat my eyelashes or let my skirt ride up on my then-slender thighs if I needed something from a man. Men were handy to have around occasionally, but certainly not required, as my female peers kept insisting.
I learned that the only place for a woman was in the boardroom and that motherhood was beneath my intelligence. I “took back the night” at a few after-dark rallies with hundreds of young women eager to prove to the world that all men were rapists and potentially violent criminals.
When I got pregnant my sophomore year, it was easy to get an abortion. The campus health center was almost eager to make sure the procedure was done quickly and quietly. I never told my parents. I never told the fellow who made me pregnant. I don’t even remember his name, I only vaguely remember a wild night with the college hockey team at an off-campus party. Only now do I consider the irony of how I was attracted to college athletes in school – the type of men who liked being in control.
Pursuing my MBA once I completed my undergraduate studies was a foregone conclusion. I was destined for the board room, or so I had convinced myself. Graduate school was tough. I was competing with some very bright people, mostly men. Those men were destined for success and they knew it. But I had something that I exploited. I had my femininity and I used it ruthlessly when I had to. I tried to convince myself that the affair with my married finance professor had nothing to do with grades. Of course, finance was the most difficult course and when I managed surface at the end of the semester with a B it was hard to rationalize that the secret trysts with the professor had nothing to do with it. But the ends always justifies the means and there was no way I would not succeed. The other few women in my class were doing the same if they could get away with it. We never talked about it, but it was understood and we sometimes giggled about it and gloated that we had something the men would never have.
I met my husband that last year in graduate school. He was pursuing a degree in sociology. The chemistry with him was quite intense in the beginning. He had long hair and a motorcycle. He was the classic bohemian and I felt the need to rein him in, to make him a better man (or at least my definition of a better man). He was irresponsible and sometimes unruly but I loved him with all my heart and soul.
After graduating, I found work in a big corporation. Every day I went to work with my power suit and shoulder pads under my jacket. I walked in my sneakers and changed into work shoes when I got to the office at 7AM to put in another 12 hour day. I was married by then in a wedding straight from Modern Bride magazine. My husband had finally cut his hair after much insistence from me. He would later call it severe nagging but I got my wish so it didn’t matter.
He found work in a consumer research organization. He didn’t get paid as much as me but that didn’t matter. My income was big and growing bigger. We bought a house I found in the suburbs. He had recommended something more modest and closer to downtown where we both worked. I would have none of that. My success had to be readily visible with a big, traditional house and a big lawn. I made sure he took care of the lawn despite his resistance.
After five years, I felt the need to have babies. It wasn’t a mutual decision. I wanted babies. No, I desperately needed a baby. I felt empty inside without kids. It was a completely irrational feeling for a high-flying career woman hell-bent on being the next corporate CEO. My husband was cool towards the idea. He asked how we would balance the demands of being parents and supporting a rather expensive lifestyle. I didn’t care. My womb was empty. I had needs. Neither reason nor logic affected my needs or my feelings.
So, the first baby came. Instantly, life changed. I couldn’t put in the hours I needed to maintain my career trajectory. My husband changed as well. He quickly lost his bohemian attitudes. He sold his motorcycle and became a devoted father to our son. Of course, I had been pushing for this since we had gotten married. His words, as revealed during the divorce, were “shrill, nagging harpy who relentlessly pushed me into fatherhood”. But he loved our first son and even offered to work only part time to allow me to keep on with my career. That would not do. I was the mother, the queen, the all-knowing and wise creator of my son. My husband was clearly an incompetent boob who didn’t know a diaper from a car seat.
My boss saw that I was distracted with my new duties as super-mom. He looked at my productivity and knew I couldn’t perform like my single or childfree colleagues. So, I was “mommy-tracked”. They didn’t call it that then. But when a male colleague was promoted over me, I knew what was happening. I hated it. I was livid. How could I not have it all? So, I played the feminine card again, this time with a stick, not a carrot. I paid a visit to Human Resources with a veiled threat of a discrimination lawsuit. It didn’t work, of course, because it was very clear that I was putting in fewer hours with the resultant loss of productivity. It was all documented and defensible. I was furious. How dare they. I summoned up all the righteous wrath I could. I consulted an outside attorney, a ferocious female lawyer who was quite prepared to sue until she made a pass at me. Open-minded I was, but certainly not a lesbian. I let the legal issue drop and sullenly accepted my reduced role at work. After all, we had expenses to pay and my salary was certainly needed.
I watched my husband evolve from bohemian to responsible father. He was astoundingly good with our first son. Of course, at the time, I didn’t recognize that. I thought everything he did was wrong. Only I, the supreme mother, could raise our first boy. We struggled for a couple of years. It wasn’t easy. So, when I got pregnant again – unplanned by my husband, completely planned by me – the stress continued to grow. Money wasn’t tight but the pressure to maintain our lifestyle and that big house was mostly on my shoulders. I resented my husband for that. He had chosen a career he loved but the pay was not nearly as much as mine. I really had to work and with being on the mommy track, there was no way I could achieve what I had expected in my career.
We did use day-care and a part-time housekeeper. Actually, we went through eight housekeepers. They were never good enough for me. Nothing was good enough for me. My shoes didn’t fit, my clothes looked bad, the car wasn’t clean enough, my husband wasn’t up to my standards. Looking back in brutal honesty, I was a stark, raving bitch. I don’t think I said a nice word in years. I am amazed that my husband put up with me. I didn’t take him seriously, he was just a man, after all.
In my limited social life, I spent time with women like me. We were an unhappy group of 30-something moms with powerful careers. But we also smiled and pretended that life was perfect. We all had the right homes, the right cars, the right schools, the right careers. We convinced ourselves that we did have it all. Occasionally, one of us might vent some frustration at the situation. When that happened, we always had convenient scapegoats – our husbands, our bosses, our housekeepers, the schools, whatever. It was never, ever our fault because we were female.
With one son at five and the other at seven, it fell apart. Rather, it exploded. My husband just gave up. He had been supportive to me and good with the children. So, it caught me by surprise when he just gave up. I guess I should have seen it. I was always using sex as a weapon with him. If he didn’t do exactly what I said, if he didn’t bend over backwards to fulfill my every whim, he didn’t experience any kind of sexual pleasure. I remember I caught him playing with himself one night. I was furious. How could he experience sexual satisfaction without my control being somehow involved?
As a healthy woman, I did have my own sexual needs. So, rather than enjoy sex within the context of a marriage, I had an affair. It was easy. I was still somewhat attractive. There were men around. “Why not?” I easily rationalized to myself. My husband doesn’t give me enough attention, it’s all his fault. The affair was inconsequential, just some sex on weekends and on business trips. I needed it so therefore it was OK. While my husband was being a father, I was being an empowered, independent woman visiting cheap motels with a man who could give me orgasms.
The affair lasted three months. My husband never found out. He didn’t need to, he just gave up. Interestingly, he channeled his efforts into a side business as a marketing consultant. This proved to be quite lucrative for him. Within six months his income had exceeded mine. Our savings account grew substantially. “It’s for the boys’ college tuition” he told me over and over again.
I was unhappy. My career was stressful and unrewarding. My two sons were closer to my husband than to me because of all the hours I was working. He had quit his full-time job and was thriving as a marketing consultant, a job that he could do out of the house with just his computer and a phone. I felt frustrated and unfulfilled. My female friends recommended counseling. So, we gave that a try. I subtly picked a counselor whom I know would be sympathetic to me. The sessions were actually fun in a very unpleasant way. The counselor and I spent 50 minutes picking on my husband. He quietly sat there and took it, apologizing and promising to change. I didn’t have to promise to do anything. The counselor – a woman much like me – made it very clear that my needs were paramount and his needs were completely irrelevant.
Naturally, the counseling didn’t work for us. My husband retreated into fatherhood and his growing business. I contemplated another affair. Unfortunately, I was gaining a lot of weight. At a size 12, it was hard to get attractive men to look at me. My friends recommended that I consider divorce. I look back and think about my “friends” from that period in my life. They were a group of unhappy women trying so hard to validate their own, poor life decisions. I let them influence me when I should have been strong. That was an enormous mistake.
I didn’t hate my husband I just didn’t love him like I used to. I wanted a new and better life. I could raise my sons without him. I had been reading that kids really didn’t need fathers. I was feeling so unfulfilled. When I served my husband with divorce papers, he didn’t seem surprised. I had consulted with a good divorce attorney and she strongly recommended that I go for everything – house, cars, custody, alimony, child support, everything. “It’s a war and as a woman, you have to win” were her words.
The divorce was ugly and despite the fact that I did get the house, the car, the kids, child support, and the savings account that he had filled, I ultimately lost. My ex moved out, leaving me to take care of the house and kids. He moved into a very modest apartment and we agreed that he could see the boys on weekends. The court actually ordered that to happen. I was happy to force him out of their lives completely but he was rigidly insistent and that damned judge agreed.
I was single again. I was ready to date again. But at 38, dating was not like the wild times in college and graduate school when I was young, alluring, and desired by men. No, I was a single mom now. I had cut my hair short and my figure was almost past the point of no return. The kind of man I wanted to date had no interest in me. Those powerful and successful men had younger, prettier, nicer girlfriends.
The divorced men were the worst. They were either so disillusioned that they couldn’t handle a relationship or they were just hopping from bed to bed, not willing to be exclusive. I so much wanted to be swept off my feet into the arms of an attractive man to take care of me and make my troubles go away. I still thought of myself as a princess. I was still silly, stupid, and immature.
Yet the men I was attracted to wouldn’t give me a second thought. The men who did want me were totally unsuitable. It was astounding to me that I wasn’t attractive any more. So many men in college were after me. I remember mocking all the guys who approached me at parties. If they had the slightest flaw, I pushed them away, usually with a pointed insult or two. I never thought twice about the men I rejected, some of them decent and sweet when I look back on it. My girlfriends and I called them “mamma’s boys” while we let ourselves be taken by the cocky, arrogant pricks who always made us feel overpowering attraction and lust.
To make matters worse, I couldn’t fix anything in the house. My husband had tended to all those matters. My boys were pre-teens and very difficult for me to handle. They hated the fact that they could only see their father on weekends. Their grades dropped. They started having discipline problems in school. Naturally, I blamed their father. It was all his fault that we divorced and that he lived apart from them. I tried not to say bad things about him in front of my sons but the feelings were just so strong. I said terrible things about their father, especially when I was drinking, which I did a lot of back then.
If I was unhappy when I was married, I was now wretchedly miserable as a single mom looking for love again. I tried hard to convince myself that I was a strong, independent, and intelligent woman. Sometimes it worked, especially when I was browbeating subordinates at work. I actually hated my job. I made a good living, yes. Yet I had reached the zenith of my career and the board room was not one bit closer. I still felt terribly conflicted about being a good mom and being the corporate woman.
I had lots of blame to dole out. There was no way that the current state of my life was the result of my decisions. My single girlfriends all told me that, many, many times over copious cocktails in sundry singles bars. I read a lot of women’s magazines and the advice I got said pretty much the same thing – a woman is never to blame.
I tried to lose weight but it was so very difficult. When I was hungry, I simply had to eat, usually ice cream or something with chocolate. I had to buy new clothes, again, because the weight kept piling on. I was set up on a blind date and the man had the sheer audacity to say “I’m sorry, I’m just not attracted to you because of your weight.” I never thought about my own hypocrisy about trying to find a man to whom I was attracted to physically. Men must be attracted to me, I am a woman, after all.
The past few years have been kind of a blur. My ex husband had found a new love of his life and I naturally hated him for that. I tried to increase the child support payments. When that didn’t work, I tried to prevent my sons from visiting him. They fought me on this. I took out my frustrations at work. My boss threatened to fire me. Only my girlfriends gave me any support. We had boozy nights where we ate and drank too much. Frankly, we were a bunch of fat, unhappy, single women who heaped blame upon the world for the state of our lives.
So when I saw the photograph from college, the epiphany hit hard. Through the tears of anguish, rage, bitterness, and denial came the incredibly painful realization that I was responsible for my own unhappiness. I finally figured out that I had not grown up and had not truly embraced adulthood. This was six months ago.
I’ve made some profound changes in my life since then. First and foremost, I stopped blaming everyone else for my own problems. This was the hardest. For my entire life I was told – and I believed – that as a woman, I could do no wrong, that I was not responsible, that I was always the victim in some way. Over and over I had to tell myself that only I am responsible for my happiness.
Once I learned to stop blaming the world, I taught myself to be pleasant and nice. This was hard as well. I had always mistaken pleasantness for weakness. This is not the case. A new colleague at work – a woman from the South – showed me very clearly it’s quite easy to be nice and be strong at the same time.
I also dumped my girlfriends. This was easy. This group of unhappy and negative women was actually encouraging me to do stupid things like divorce a perfectly good man because of my selfish and very arbitrary feelings of the moment. I finally learned that acting solely on feelings is the realm of children, not adults. Maybe those women will finally learn that. But I doubt it.
I’m at the gym every day. After being rebuffed by so many attractive and decent guys, I decided to apply standards of real equality to the whole dating thing. After all, if I believe in physical attraction, why should not I understand that men are the same way? Being fat means not being physically attractive to many, many men so it’s up to me to do something about, not be angry with men about the situation. The weight is coming off. It’s a battle, to be sure, but it’s coming off. I’m also letting my hair grow and getting rid of that awful “mom” hair style.
I no longer read those loathsome women’s magazines nor do I watch a lot of TV. When I freed my mind from so many complete misconceptions about men, I learned that men are actually wonderful people. My sons saw my transformation. As they grow older and become men in their own right, I have stopped nagging them about “feelings” and “sensitivity” and encourage them to be men. I doubt I’ll ever mend fences with my ex husband, all I can do is hope that he finds happiness and joy in his life. I have a new respect for him, a respect born from understanding that men are very different, not worse, just different. My ex is also an excellent father, I am blessed for that.
I’ve learned to accept that my needs aren’t the center of the universe. That was actually quite liberating. No longer am I a slave to the whimsy of my often shallow emotions that can’t be reasonably fulfilled. This means I complain less. If I can’t change the situation, why complain about it? Winter is cold, my complaints about the temperature will do nothing to warm the air.
The biggest regret I have in life is being so weak as to not to have made the serious introspection until this point in my life. If I were truly strong, truly intelligent, I would have really thought about what is important to me instead of following the herd. In retrospect, clawing my up the corporate ladder was a very bad decision. Exploiting my femininity to manipulate men was even worse. I love being a woman but using sex to get what I want is no better than a man using brute strength to get what he wants.
I’m still single and dating still eludes me. There is a glimmer of hope, however, a very nice man complimented me on my smile. At 45 years old, that was the first time anyone has noticed my smile. My eldest son noticed it too, “Mom, I’ve never seen you smile until now.” Life must get better for me. That’s my responsibility, no one else’s.
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I agree, Obsidian…it is wrong to shag other people on the sly, period. One’s primary partner should have both priority and veto power, even in an openly polyamorous relationship.
Also, despite what may be “fair”, what’s good for the goose is not good for the gander. Polyandry is alot less common than polygamy for a good reason. Men are different from women.
When polyandry does work well, the men are either very submissive (and feminine brained) partners to a very dominant (and masculine brained) female, or polygamous themselves. So it works more like a network of polygamous males under the nurturing type of authority of a dominant female. Think Queen Bee.
In one case I know of, a woman living in northern Italy, she and her sister share four “husbands”. So basically, what’s making it work is that even though external genitalia is one thing, the mental/social dynamic is still basically polygamy. They’re hippies, but not as much of hippies as they think they are.
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The MAP said, “a size 12, it was hard to get attractive men to look at me.”
I have to call b.s. on this one. My friend Dana is a size 12, and has to beat them away with a stick.
It wasn’t the size. It was the early aging and bitchiness, which often leads to “assface”.
The only way back from that is a consistently better attitude or Botox.
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That 45 Year Old Princess letter was so written by a man that it isn’t even funny.
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Marriage is Bad for Women, and Divorce is Bad for Men
http://www.slate.com/id/94243/
The moral is not that every man prefers marriage and every woman prefers divorce, but that by some appropriate measure, marriage is on average good for men and bad for women. That’s why men pay to stay married and women pay to get divorced.
Moreover, there’s a good reason, rooted in both economics and biology, why we should have expected this conclusion all along. A 30-year-old woman who wants a family is getting close to the point where she has to choose the best of her available suitors. A 30-year-old man can always choose to wait another five or 10 years till someone better comes along. In general, the longer you spend searching for something—be it a car, a house, or a life partner—the happier you’re going to be with the one you end up with. So—again, with myriad exceptions—a woman’s optimal strategy is to settle for an imperfect mate and then try to change him. A man’s optimal strategy is to search until he finds someone close to perfect. It’s therefore no surprise that women, more often than men, should end up regretting their choices.
In hindsight, it all makes sense. Once you realize there’s a biological clock, you should be able to predict that men (having searched long and hard for the perfect partner) would make financial sacrifices to preserve their marriages, and that women who stay married to imperfect partners would be kept in their marriages by financial rewards—or, to say the same thing another way, that women who leave their marriages would make financial sacrifices. (And you should also be able to make a lot of auxiliary predictions, such as this one: Wives try harder to mold their husbands than husbands try to mold their wives—because husbands wait until they’ve found wives who need relatively little molding.) Fairness never had anything to do with it.
Divorce is Good for Women
http://www.slate.com/id/2182089/
Furthermore, once divorce started to become conceivable, women knew they could no longer think of themselves as one part of an economic unit. Rationality, you will recall, is about thinking ahead and responding to incentives. Realizing that the economic unit might break up, at which point a woman who simply specialized in having children was in serious trouble, it became rational for a woman to maintain career options as divorce insurance. In the division-of-labor world of the 1950s, unhappily married women would rationally stick it out: they had few alternatives. But as more older women were finding jobs, managing their housework more quickly with the aid of washing machines and electric irons, women started to realize that there was an alternative to an unhappy marriage. Divorce was still financially tough but it was no longer economic suicide. And then the contraceptive pill came along, making women—as we have seen—more highly educated, career-minded and employer-friendly.
Did women really need career options before they could get divorced? In all but the most desperately unhappy marriages, they did. Contrary to the popular bar-room grumbles of divorced men, alimony alone doesn’t take women very far financially. Fewer than half of single divorced mothers get any child support at all, and for those who do, child support is just a few thousand dollars a year, typically about one-fifth of the mother’s total income. If a woman, especially a mother, was determined to get a divorce, she almost always needed to find a job. More and more women realized that they had the ability to do exactly that.
…….
That may sound a little abstract, but economists Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers discovered a chilling example of the way that the increased availability of divorce empowered women. As states passed “no fault” divorce laws, women acquired a credible threat to walk out of the marriage. (The statistics suggest that many of them did not, actually, do this. But the threat is enough.) Stevenson and Wolfers show that the new laws had an unexpected—but rational—effect: by giving women an exit-option, they gave men stronger incentives to behave well inside a marriage. The result? Domestic violence fell by almost a third, and the number of women murdered by their partners fell by ten percent. Female suicide also fell. It is a reminder that the binding commitment of marriage has costs as well as benefits.
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agree that the Princess letter is linear –written by a man.
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> That 45 Year Old Princess letter was so written by a man that it isn’t even funny.
Yeah, it’s pretty obvious.
Even if the description is factually accurate, the style and scope; the harsh and critical self-examination; and the near-complete regret for wrongs done that were taken as self-evident truths at the time almost rule out that the person who wrote the article was (a) in the situation or (b) a woman.
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“Even if the description is factually accurate, the style and scope; the harsh and critical self-examination; and the near-complete regret for wrongs done that were taken as self-evident truths at the time almost rule out that the person who wrote the article was (a) in the situation or (b) a woman.”
Yeah, cuz guys are well-known for those traits. Neither sex is too good at looking at themselves critically, only the other party.
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> Yeah, cuz guys are well-known for those traits. Neither sex is too good at looking at themselves critically, only the other party.
True. I would argue, though, that the right-hand side of the bell-curve for men is fatter in this regard. Thus given that an article of extreme introspection and recantation is written, it is much more likely to be written by a man. Such men would still represent a distinct minority of all men, of course.
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I really don’t care who wrote that “open letter” and in fact I’ve seen it elsewhere on the internet a few years back, I think it was Glenn Sacks’ site I’m not sure. The bottomline is that the letter contains a lot of truth in it that the Ladies of this venue would be wise to consider.
Nicole, yup, I hear ya. I’ve always maintained that the vast majority of Women simply cannot maintain an ongoing sexual relationship w/say, 3 Men, in the same way that a Man can do so w/3 Women. Women just aren’t made that way; I honestly believe them trying to do so messes with them emotionally, mentally, psychologically. As you noted, there are exceptions, but even you’ve admitted, they are rare, and not quite the straight polygamous types that Men are more hardwired for.
By the way, what’d you think of my sex advice for Chic & Co.?
O
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Guys the “Middle Age Princess Grows Up” story is in fact a farse.
Here is the link to the original piece and writer: http://www.the-niceguy.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=31929&hl=dating+still+eludes+me
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Bhetti —
The difference between Big and Sheik is that the Sheik “guards” his harem with formalized brutality, and fights over women commonly erupt when the guarding is perceived to have broken down. That’s “Hard” Polygamy with lots of formalized religious stuff around the core of the Big Man guarding his harem and sending off the young men to die in jihad or simply expelling them (think also the FLDS “lost boys” dumped out so 50 year old men can have 14 year old girls as “wives”).
Big’s World is one where no one guards women because no one cares about exclusive sexual access. That sort of system can be stable over time (think West Africa) but generally devolves into a brutalist, Mad Max style attempt to show physical brutality above all, and even less cooperation among men than in the tribal-mediated “Hard” polygamy. It’s why despite West Africans being splendid individual warriors of incomparable physical strength (they could hardly be otherwise as women selected for it) they lost to both Arab and European colonizers who were more cooperative. Since war is not individual strength contests between warriors but organized slaughter.
In terms of material success, less violence within and without a society, better treatment for women, more freedom for women, and critically, male cooperation and trust from which all these things flow, the hierarchy is: monogamy-nuclear family > Soft Mr. Big Polygamy > tribal polygamy (“Hard”/Sheik). The reason for this hierarchy is that cousin-networks and such in tribal Sheik/Hard Polygamy societies amp up competition by providing kin networks for inter-society struggles, and make when victory is achieved the fallout even greater. Mr. Big or West Africans rely on personal charisma alone, which makes for chaotic, Mad Max societies in the long run (think Charles Taylor or “General Butt Naked”) but limits their force projection and internal cohesion.
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“Thus given that an article of extreme introspection and recantation is written, it is much more likely to be written by a man.”
Except that it isn’t really introspection, it is merely pointing out the perceived failings and thoughts of another party. More projection than introspection. Also, the author has clearly never read an actual woman’s magazine, which is more about pointers for “learning to please your man!”, and diet tips than almost anything else.
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the 45yo cougar princess story is fake but accurate in its portrayal of a very real phenomenon.
anonymous chick:
Yeah, cuz guys are well-known for those traits.
men are better at it than women.
much better.
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Schoolboy,
Again, so what? Doesn’t the article/letter point to some salient truths? Its like debating whether the Bible is “legit”-so what, the point is, it has a lot of truth in it.
Come on peeps, let’s not do that thing T aka Ricky Raw talked about awhile back-wanting to analyze something to death before running w/the obvious truth of a thing. That’s a nasty little habit many of my White brothers have got to shake loose.
O
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cheater
Retch.
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anon beta chick:
which is more about pointers for “learning to please your man!”,
translation: “learning to please your fantasy alpha”.
and diet tips than almost anything else.
translation: stay thin to bag an alpha.
so you see, anon beta chick, scratch the suface a bit and the narrative veers from your belief that women are prepared to improve themselves to please all men.
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men are better at it than women.
introspection and self-recrimination?????????? NOT.
Women are much quicker to over analyze and blame themselves. I’ve often smiled at men’s capacity to blithely absoove themselves of responsibility; it gives them assurance to boldly move on to their next overconfident screwup.
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Whiskey,
Your analysis is, as always, very good. However, I am wondering, in light of your comments wrt specifically West Africa, how do you explain Mansa Musa, Hannibal, or Shaka Zulu? How do you account for Jomo Kenyatta and his Mau Mau movement? All of these were definite examples of military organizations, where mas numbers of African Men had to cooperate with each other in order to be successful.
Comments?
O
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“anon beta chick:
which is more about pointers for “learning to please your man!”,
translation: “learning to please your fantasy alpha”.
and diet tips than almost anything else.
translation: stay thin to bag an alpha.
so you see, anon beta chick, scratch the suface a bit and the narrative veers from your belief that women are prepared to improve themselves to please all men.”
Hmm. So a girl can’t win for losing. If she reads stuff about trying to please her man, and stay thin, it doesn’t count because she is only trying to please *some* men. If she tries to please *all* men, then she is a slut. Ok then.
In the PUA community, there are tips for how to pick up and please women. I’m sure for the nascent pick-up artist guy, he isn’t picturing the 4/5 girl that he is most likely to get, but the 9/10 girl that he really wants. Yet by aiming to please the highest staus women, he also makes himself attrative to lower status women as well. It works much the same way for women. I don’t many betas who are turning down a nice-shaped women who wants to please her man.
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anony:
introspection and self-recrimination??????????
self-examination, yes. men are better at this by a country mile. as i have written before, men have more to lose by ignoring reality:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/07/10/more-thoughts-on-the-poon-commandments/
Women are much quicker to over analyze
you misspelled over-rationalize.
and blame themselves.
have you ever heard a cheating woman blame herself? not on this planet.
I’ve often smiled at men’s capacity to blithely absoove themselves of responsibility
this isn’t an example of self-blame, it’s an example of passive flattery. and women will do this only for men they like. betas need not apply to be recipients of women’s better angels.
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No offense (actually, complete offense) intended…
does anyone else disregard 90% of what women say, verbally as well as written, since they are 90% driven by their emotions/female friends/media?
I’ve been having a hard time reading/listening to a female POV since I’ve begun perusing Roissy’s and like-intended blogs.
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O:
> Your analysis is, as always, very good. However, I am wondering, in light of your comments wrt specifically West Africa, how do you explain Mansa Musa, Hannibal, or Shaka Zulu? How do you account for Jomo Kenyatta and his Mau Mau movement? All of these were definite examples of military organizations, where mas numbers of African Men had to cooperate with each other in order to be successful.
> Comments?
Hannibal wasn’t sub-Saharan African, he was from Carthage which is in modern-day Tunisia.
The other leaders were charismatic and powerful… but their power died with them. They largely built no institutions that survived (although Shaka can probably be credited with manufacturing the Zulu ethnicity from warring loco-regional tribes).
But even if you accept these guys as permanent-empire builders (dubious in my estimation) they are the exception, rather than the rule.
Consider the per capita number of mass societies (defined as states of over 1 million people) in sub-Saharan Africa pre-colonization vs. the number in Europe or Asia. I can really only think of Ethiopia (which had substantial cultural input from Arabia and the Med) and maybe the occasional sometimes-here-sometimes-not-there Timbuktu.
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anon beta chick:
Hmm. So a girl can’t win for losing.
no one said life was fair. this applies to men as well.
If she reads stuff about trying to please her man, and stay thin, it doesn’t count because she is only trying to please *some* men.
i’m helpfully clearing up any confusion that might result from believing women are endlessly self-sacrificing humanitarians interested only in pleasing men. women are like men — interested in serving themselves.
If she tries to please *all* men, then she is a slut.
sluts are great if you’re a guy who wants an easy lay and fun times. they are not so great if you’re a guy looking for an LTR with a girl who won’t be likely to stray. this is an example of what is known as reality, and like all things in the world of reality moral judgments are peripheral to the matter at hand.
Yet by aiming to please the highest staus women, he also makes himself attrative to lower status women as well.
true so far.
It works much the same way for women.
now you’re beginning to muddy the waters. a woman in the mating market does not actively aim to please men (except with minor adjustments like makeup and skin showing) to nearly the same degree as men work to please women because a woman’s sexual value is tied up in her beauty which was established at the point of her conception.
I don’t many betas who are turning down a nice-shaped women who wants to please her man.
a hot woman may attract more than her fair share of betas, but that doesn’t mean those betas will act on their desire. when a woman primps herself for men, she instinctually understands that she’s doing it for the thin sliver of quality men at the right end of the bell curve, and that she will have to put up with the minor inconveniences of a few brave betas running substandard game on her.
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does anyone else disregard 90% of what women say, verbally as well as written, since they are 90% driven by their emotions/female friends/media?
if you take the red pill, mr. m., you may not like what you find.
most people are not ready for the truth.
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Obsidian–
Hannibal of Carthage was a North African of Phoenician (Semitic, Canaanite) stock, like most Carthaginians. The big divide in Africa is the Sahara desert. Hence “subSaharan Africa”.
North Africa has always been part of the Mediterranean world, and racially about 70% Caucasian, with a mixture of Semitic and some non Semitic peoples. Some black blood as well.
Mansa Musa was the black West African ruler of a region with huge natural supplies of gold. Gold and slaves traded at that stage with Muslims were the source of his storied wealth, which he famously spent lavishly and entirely on his obligatory trip to Mecca. Depressed the value of gold in the Muslim near east for years afterwards in fact.
Now Shaka Zulu really was an impressive military leader, no doubt there. John Keegan says so, and he’s the man as far as military history goes.
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Mr. M,
I’ve mentioned what we call in the hood The Rule of Ten Percent: only about 10% of anything a Woman tells a Man is of any good use to him. All other verbal, or even written, communication is just chatter. That’s no dis to the Ladies in the room, its just a brutally honest observation of how Women talk, and by extension, think.
So, if you will kindly observe the conversation btw Anony and Roissy, w/all due respect to the lady, you will see what I mean. Nuff respect to the R.
JAM,
There remains some debate as to whether Hannibal was indeed “Black” I see. But if that’s the case, then many of the same people from West Africa really couldn’t be considered Black either, since in many cases, they existed above or at least parallel to, the Sahara.
In any event, Mansa Musa clearly wasn’t from Sub-Saharan Africa, and by all accounts he was Black; and the Ethiopians you cited?-well, to let Whiskey tell it, they got their ideas from the Arabs, who weren’t much better in the military organization department (though I’m not sure that jibes with Prophet Muhammad’s military track record and his Legacy in that regard, nor of his Caliphs, nor of Saladin during the Crusades, were he clearly outclassed the Christian-and widely disorganized-Crusaders at Jersusalem.
Moreover, Kenyatta’s very name is synonymous w/the country Kenya; his footprint is there still. The Mau Mau movement was on of Africa’s inspirations for throwing off colonialism enmasse during the late 50s and 60s.
Shaka Zulu is widely recognized as having been one of the relatively few Sub-Saharan African Kings who was able to bring together differing tribes into a formidable fighting force. All of this would suggest that things are just a weebit more complex than the picture Whiskey paints-although I don’t disagree w/his premise entirely.
Comments?
O
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if you take the red pill, mr. m., you may not like what you find.
most people are not ready for the truth.
It’s interesting, actually…prior to reading these genre of thoughts/blogs I was having similar observations of my own about women & Western culture (for quite some time, actually); i think the most concise summation of i’ve seen/read thus far is “entitled bitches.”
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Men born in the early 1970s, on average, must be the most ball-less group ever born, and their female counterparts the most bitchy and obnoxious.
Sharply observed, Agnostic.
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when women at work or on this blog start to talk about how they see various man/woman issues I basically stop listening very closely. The only data I trust in this arena is binary: sex or no sex, come hither or cold shoulder, spit or swallow.
does anyone else disregard 90% of what women say, verbally as well as written, since they are 90% driven by their emotions/female friends/media?
true words.
this is why game will almost always trump feminism. so much feminist tripe exists and is propagated in the echo chamber that is pop culture and academia. game, on the other hand, is based on how things plays out in the field. if game were just the collected wisdom of a bunch of dudes sitting around feeding each other nonsense and never experiencing success with women, it would be… well, it would be feminism.
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does anyone else disregard 90% of what women say,
Yeah, woman talk is pretty much like the grownups in Charlie Brown… tune it out and you don’t lose much… friend of mine once said he wished he could date two women at the same time – “that way if there’s a conversation, I don’t have to be in it.”
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Doug, thanks for the comments, much appreciated. Seems we both share an interest in military stuff, that’s wassup.
Again, I’m not totally throwing out Whiskey’s points-i myself have always said that I don’t think Polygamy should b made public policy, because I’m aware of the fact that all Men are *not* created equal in that regard. And even the Qur’an speaks to this: it clearly states, that if a Man cannot handle more than one wifey, then “one wife would be better for you” if my memory serves. And in fact, today in the Islamic World, most countries do not have as public policy Polygamy, if I’m not mistaken.
Anyway, just wanted to toss that in, and again, I don’t completely dispute Whiskey’s analysis. Just thought it was important to add a bit of refinement on it.
O
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now you’re beginning to muddy the waters. a woman in the mating market does not actively aim to please men (except with minor adjustments like makeup and skin showing) to nearly the same degree as men work to please women because a woman’s sexual value is tied up in her beauty which was established at the point of her conception.
I don’t many betas who are turning down a nice-shaped women who wants to please her man.
a hot woman may attract more than her fair share of betas, but that doesn’t mean those betas will act on their desire. when a woman primps herself for men, she instinctually understands that she’s doing it for the thin sliver of quality men at the right end of the bell curve, and that she will have to put up with the minor inconveniences of a few brave betas running substandard game on her.
Every guy can’t get the 9/10, and every girl can’t settle in surburbia with the Alpha of her dreams. As most people end up marrying despite this, that means that there is a whole lot of settling going on, on both sides. While I would argue that women settle more than men, just from a biological clock standpoint, both sides do settle.
But I think women work far more on a particular relationship than a man does. Most relationship self-help books are written for women, and very few of those advice divorce or breaking it off. A women does try to please her man, alpha or beta, and make a relationship work. But then she realizes that she isn’t listened to, respected, and is just a convenient hole for the guy, and she…gives up. Why she should she give 100%, and get far less than that back? Then a women realizes that if she is is basically alone in a relationship anyway, she may as well be actually alone.
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Mike–
That’s true but it’s also completely a tautology.
Roissy DEFINES alpha men as those that women are most attracted to. Actually, it’s in effect heavily who they’re most attracted to for casual or semi casual sex (gives it up quickly even if she thinks/hopes for a relationship). Link.
What’s interesting is the contrast between what men find most sexually attractive in women and what women find most attractive in men, measured by what hot members of each gender do rather than say. It’s also interesting how multi-stranded the factors are which women find most attractive.
However, if you’ve got some status, and combine some strong male dominance with playfully seduction skills, you’re gonna do well. Game helps to sharpen and clearly project all these things.
It’s also true that most women don’t understand or anyway certainly don’t accurately verbalize what most attracts them in men.
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Anonymous-
First, please adopt some screen name, unique to here if you like, so we can follow you from comment to comment.
Women typically want to talk about what they think is wrong in a relationship a whole lot more than men do, that’s true.
Then why is it that so many American women withhold sex at the first sign of trouble in a relationship, or over any little upset. Or simply loose interest in it but feel no obligation to at least give it a try for their husband, for whom it’s usually vitally important, including as glue keeping his interest in her and her concerns up.
This is just pure feminist cant. First of all if she’s not having regular and strong efforts sex with her husband then from his point of view she isn’t even giving 10% to the relationship. But of course his point of view isn’t what matters and isn’t remotely of equal importance to the feminist mindset.
The notion that there’s some epidemic of American women not being listened to respected is also laughable. It’s often much more the other way around.
And take his money on her way out the no fault American divorce law.
Part of the reason for prenups guys is to bolster the power dynamics within the marriage and give her more incentive to actually see things from her husbands point of view, instead of expecting 100% the reverse.
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Can’t argue w/ya there, Doug. Most Women just refuse to get that sex is a major concern for guys, and when they stop being sexually available, its a major dis to most Men.
As for the whole divorce law thing, like I said before, I have no problem wacthing everything I have go up in smoke before she gets a thin dime. I can always rebuild, I’ve done it before. Its a different story for most Women-w/o significant support, they’re toast.
O
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@chicnoir:
“Never wrestle a pig. All you get is dirty and besides, the pig likes it.”
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Heh. It’s called the “scorched earth policy.” That’s how the Russians defeated Napoleon and the Wehrmacht, and, as a defensive strategy, it’s one of the few things that men can effectively employ in divorce.
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Y’all really prefer to have your wife lay there and merely pretend to care about having sex with you, rather than go without?
It’s cool if that’s how it is; lord knows sometimes a gal just has to think of England for the sake of the domestic peace. Just seems like it’d make your average guy feel like a loser.
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The only thing you can effectively apply in divorce is to be a man.
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“”””””””””””””omw
Y’all really prefer to have your wife lay there and merely pretend to care about having sex with you, rather than go without?
It’s cool if that’s how it is; lord knows sometimes a gal just has to think of England for the sake of the domestic peace. Just seems like it’d make your average guy feel like a loser.”””””””””””””
Really I cannot understand this aspect of life. Unless the only woman I select to have long term relationships with actually enjoy me. Unless it was the end of my first marriage woman have always wanted to have sex with me.
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There is seriously too much irony in life. It is really fucking wierd.
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“Men born in the early 1970s, on average, must be the most ball-less group ever born, and their female counterparts the most bitchy and obnoxious.”
Agreed. The question is – WHY did this happen to that generation?
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what a fucking bitch man shamelessly cheat on her husband like that, we should tell the husband this and have him take the kids, we don’t need anymore children to grow up to be sluts like that scumbag bitch
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Greg, you haven’t had kids yet.
God, they sap every last ounce of oomph you got left, sometimes. Even I was a sex fiend once upon a time, and I think I’ve still got more roiling desire than your average mom of three kids under age five.
but still, sometimes I have to tell my husband that I will give him what he wants but not to expect me to be real thrilling about it.
More often than not, he takes a rain check till I’m awake again.
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I think Barbara Ehrenreich is a good writer. Here is an article by her about the beats:
http://us.history.wisc.edu/hist102/readings/Ehrenreich_BeatRebellion.pdf
It is from her book on male discontent in the 1950s.
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ummmm:
@chicnoir:
“Never wrestle a pig. All you get is dirty and besides, the pig likes it.”
i’m not surprised you would defend the stupid and duplicitous.
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omw–
Gunny: Really I cannot understand this aspect of life.
I’m with you gunny. I can always get a woman to enjoy sex with me if she’ll even remotely let me, and I’m at all motivated. (That relates heavily to her looks but if I love her there’s leeway.)
Refusal or steely determination to not enjoy herself are another thing. Or yeah, if the woman is just totally exhausted too OMW (or obviously if she’s sick and such).
So many women think that if they’re not feeling a hormonal push for sex, then they won’t enjoy it.
Not true. Female sex is HEAVILY pullable. Yes it’s easier when she’s feeling the push, but the pull works all by itself — if she’s healthy and rested, and not just totally fightin’ it.
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If you marry one of those kinds of women who doesn’t like sex (they do exist), that would be your only option. I’ve never been with women who dislike sex, but I’ve known a couple who were kind of indifferent about it. On the other hand, there are those that hit the ceiling every time.
Evidently, you can kind of tell which ones are which by the way they walk:
The results showed that the appropriately trained sexologists were able to correctly infer vaginal orgasm through watching the way the women walked over 80 percent of the time. Further analysis revealed that the sum of stride length and vertebral rotation was greater for the vaginally orgasmic women. “This could reflect the free, unblocked energetic flow from the legs through the pelvis to the spine,” the authors note.
I think someone posted that here some time ago, but I think it’s important to bring it up again, for the benefit of both men and women. The key phrase is “free, unblocked energetic flow from the legs through the pelvis to the spine.” This has a lot to do with “The Wave”, which I mentioned in my earlier post. The ability of a woman to allow relaxation in the pelvic area combined with an “energetic flow” of power through the vagina during sex contributes greatly to both her and the man’s pleasure.
Of course, mastery of the art requires that the woman actually manipulate this flowing energy, but simply having it there makes a big difference nonetheless.
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“”””””””””””””””””””OMW,
but still, sometimes I have to tell my husband that I will give him what he wants but not to expect me to be real thrilling about it. “””””””””””””
Why tell him that? He should be just taking that ass. Let me rephrase I never get told do not expect me to be real thrilling about it. Sex isn’t a descision by the woman it is a descision by the man.
I will contemplate things like this while laying on some titties for a year while my woman caresses away all the bs I have ever heard.
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Welmer
Yeah, that’s true too.
Also after awhile if she doesn’t make any efforts ever or very rarely much of any, it’s awfully hard to continue having that male motivation re: her. Unless maybe if she’s truly stunning.
Also, there are definitely women who dislike lots of different kinds of sex, which is also a BIG motivation sapper. No I don’t mean just not liking anal etc. I mean not liking anything at all rough ever for feminist ideological kinds of reasons, etc., and not liking to perform oral herself for similar kinds of reasons, and only grudging doing it reciprocally until you’re hard “because unlike her that’s all you really need”. Live and learn.
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Why tell him, Gunny? Because he’s getting frisky, whilst I can barely keep my eyeballs open, that’s why. LOL.
Sure, I could (and would) lay there and take it like a trouper, but the snoring is bound to be a bit of a turnoff, eh?
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Am I alone in suspecting that “sexology” is right up there with feng shui consulting in sheer upper-class quackery?
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@roissy:
Yes, I’m sure you hated every nanosecond of furiously typing quasi-intelligible curses at a woman who–surprise, surprise–doesn’t agree with some of the content in your blog. It’s not like you’re trying to stir things up or be controversial or advocate the extermination of women over 40–oops, 30–or anything.
Oh, wait…
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The world would be a more aesthetically pleasing place if we lined up bitches past the age of 35 and summarily shot them in the head.
Hey, sweet, only seven years of this mortal coil left to withstand!
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finefantastic!
“Firepower: Kassy is taken. She’s sitting in my living room, providing me with hours of free cable. Sorry.”
thats cool. so long as the both of you have a purpose, I have no desire to interfere
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Few women dislike sex. But some women don’t care much for sex with their partners. That’s the man’s fault. When I tell my young female friends that my wife and I have a vigorous and enthusiastic sex life after 10 years of marriage, they tell me it’s impossible, because they only feel like screwing their boyfriends once or twice a week. I told them they need new boyfriends, because a good man turns his wife on; she should want to have sex as much as he does. I told my wife recently that if she ever got fat or lost her enthusiasm for sex, I’d leave her or start openly fucking other women. She said that she knew that, and I didn’t have to tell her. She’s always known that.
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Indeed if I’d stayed with the guy I’d married at nineteen, I’d be near-celibate by now. He probably would be, too.
What an impossibly lousy lay; you can only fake it for the team for so long. Scrubbing grout in the shower is more satisfying than that.
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That is the irony as I see it. Men are initiating sex. If the man only initiates 2 times a week it is because he initiates two times a week because that is all he wants.
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“”””””””””””””””””””omw
Why tell him, Gunny? Because he’s getting frisky, whilst I can barely keep my eyeballs open, that’s why. LOL.”””””””””””””
Lol he needs to turn you over and spank that ass and wake you up.
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I don’t get what you’re getting at here, Gunny.
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OMW asks, “Y’all really prefer to have your wife lay there and merely pretend to care about having sex with you, rather than go without?
It’s cool if that’s how it is; lord knows sometimes a gal just has to think of England for the sake of the domestic peace. Just seems like it’d make your average guy feel like a loser.”
The average guy is a loser.
Most men marry for social convenience.
Here in Israel, social convenience means anyone in your own ethnicity who will have you once you run out of sportfucking options (if you ever had any), no matter how hideous and disgusting she is. Guys here basically marry the first woman who suckers him into sperm donation or doesn’t make his mommy sad.
In the U.S. it means the closest woman one can get to the media “ideal” beauty template, no matter how ugly or disgusting she actually is. So long as she’s slim and preferably blonde, has a masculine-with-accents figure, and doesn’t break mirrors, it’s all good.
Most guys will ignore a woman’s past if she’s close enough.
*After* the average guy has done his social obligation or gained his trophy, he starts to notice things like actual beauty, character, and the like.
So if someone is looking for the average guy, or the alpha of average guys, then if she looks “good”, basically she can cover her frigidity or lack of interest in sex with religion or entitlement, and it’ll be interpreted as modesty…and the one I like best: born again virginity, despite having sat on Lupo’s “barrel o’ dicks” up until she met Mr. Average.
Mr. Average is the hoe retirement plan.
I knew this a long time ago, just wasn’t sure exactly what to do about it. When I gave it some thought after many arguments with Roissy, I realized that I’m doing a kind of female equivalent of what he’s doing: opting out of convention altogether.
I’m open to the idea of encountering a suitable mate, as I’m open to the idea of winning the lottery. It’s a nice idea, but not something I think it’s wise to bank my future on.
So I’m not going to go play musical cocks or something, but I am learning to play the game to my advantage. That means no sex for anybody, but damn if I won’t play the weak link vulnerable plain Jane well into wrinklehood, just for kicks.
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omw
Better make good use of those years. Time flies.
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Nicole you could find someone it just might take a couple thousand.
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“””””””””””””””””on April 23, 2009 at 6:24 pm omw
I don’t get what you’re getting at here, Gunny.””””””””””””””
There are too many pretty and ugly lies.
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A couple thousand dollars?
Hmmm…You might be right. I can import one from Nigeria. That’ll be good until he gets his citizenship, and then for a couple thousand more I can divorce him and replace him with a new one. 🙂
(NOT)
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Hm, if I knew I was going to be shot in the back of the head in seven years, would I dutifully have another baby for the sake of the family and the race?
Or would I send out a letter to that ridiculously adorable guy down the road, the one who turns a little red when I drop by unexpectedly: “Let’s give ’em something to talk about!”
ha!
Well, that’s a fun and funny thing to ponder. Maybe the sluts are onto something.
Maybe I’ve been unfairly suspicious of them all these years, for no good reason…
It’s the fear, as Gunny says, not the love.
Nicole, those are all good points. Everybody is driven by social approval to some extent, I suppose. It’s a little sad, but a little necessary, too.
Otherwise most people, being the losers that they are, rationalize damage done to other people as “just living for today.”
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Kind of like I thought I was at a disadvantage in life but have found that in reality I am at an extreme advantage compared to my peers.
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People are talkin, talking ’bout people
I hear them whisper, you won’t believe it
They think we’re lovers kept under covers
I just ignore it, but they keep saying
We laugh just a little too loud
We stand just a little too close
We stare just a little too long
Maybe they’re seeing, something we don’t, Darlin’
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“”””””””””””on April 23, 2009 at 6:37 pm Nicole
A couple thousand dollars?
Hmmm…You might be right. I can import one from Nigeria. That’ll be good until he gets his citizenship, and then for a couple thousand more I can divorce him and replace him with a new one.
(NOT)”””””””””””””””””””
Naa I was talking about a couple thousand people to find the right one for you.
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OMW, social approval is important, but some societies suck and must be defied by anyone who wants to achieve greatness.
One cannot achieve greatness by being normal.
So when I say most people are losers, I don’t mean that as harsh as it sounds. I should probably word that as most people being followers by nature.
So if what it takes to make themselves feel okay is having the hottest chick they can afford on their arm, then they will do this at the cost of having a loving woman by their side…and truthfully, it is the cost they should pay. They should not have access to resources they are incapable of managing…including human resources.
A severely socially dependent man will fail a loving woman. A mercenary type on the other hand, is just what he needs: someone who will do her duty to him, and make him and herself look good, and breed children who will continue that legacy.
Where there is a problem is when there is a mismatch. I believe in _Silence of the Lambs_, Dr. Lecter explained it best: some are deep rollers…
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“””””””””””””””””””omw
People are talkin, talking ’bout people
I hear them whisper, you won’t believe it
They think we’re lovers kept under covers
I just ignore it, but they keep saying
We laugh just a little too loud
We stand just a little too close
We stare just a little too long
Maybe they’re seeing, something we don’t, Darlin’””””””””””””””
Before ya do it talk to the hubby about it. You might be entitled to one fling.
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Hey, apropos of nothing, you said you went to a DoDDs school in Italy– was it the one in Naples, by chance?
I went to NAHS. What a crazy place.
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OMW, I went to BAHS.
What an acronym…accurate though.
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naw, I’m just kidding, Gunny.
Since I’ll likely live past 35, I’d just as soon stay married for the greater portion of those years anyway. LOL. And I got a good man, a fine man, the sort of man your friends wish had brothers.
So Mister Post Office Hottie is going to have to take his gorgeous eyes and sensuous lips somewhere ELSE. ha!
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And if you talk about it but then decide not to do it with him. Imagine the trust to be able to talk about some crazy shit like that.
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We said our school was “NAHS-eeating.” har har. The things you think are witty when you’re thirteen.
Those DoDDs schools are wild, though. I was near the bottom of the hierarchy myself– an enlisted man’s daughter in a sea of admiral’s kids. But yeah, that had to have been a tough place to grow up black and female.
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“”””””””””””””””on April 23, 2009 at 4:50 pm omw
Greg, you haven’t had kids yet.
God, they sap every last ounce of oomph you got left, sometimes. Even I was a sex fiend once upon a time, and I think I’ve still got more roiling desire than your average mom of three kids under age five. “””””””””””””””””””
You are a woman who can see the future implications of things. That is good. I actually do have an adopted kid at this point. From my womans brother. I think she did it because she may have had thoughts and was proactive he he he. She got something to keep her busy and love and a visible sign that she has a man already.
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Plus she knew I wanted a kid and we didn’t have one so she went and grabbed one lol What a woman. He He He
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She adopted her nephew? that’s cool. Yeah, having kids confers a degree of gravitas on a woman that can’t be matched any other way.
Marriage is just a piece of paper, in a sense, but kids? That’s when you know things are serious. No turning back after that.
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It is rarely the man’s fault when a woman dislikes sex. If she consented to sex with the man, she should be able to enjoy it.
Part of the problem here in the states is that men are expected to cater to women in every which way. Although I have no problem with a man doing his best to please a woman in bed if he wants to, this has created a cultural attitude that woman have absolutely no responsibility in anything, including making sex enjoyable for both themselves and their partner.
This is why American women are amongst the lousiest lovers in the world. Even Muslim women are better than American women in bed (guys, you should really have a go with a belly dancer sometime), even if they are a little kinky for my tastes.
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But isn’t one of the main tenets of Game that a man can indeed learn to push a woman’s attraction buttons, and that she is biologically incapable of willing herself to be attracted to someone who pushes none of these buttons?
It’s like trying to fuck a 400 pound woman, trying to force yourself to get wound up for a baby-faced whining herb.
If starvation is your other option, you can prolly get on with it.
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OMW–
You can, and it sounds like you do, get a lot of the same mileage out of it by flirting with adorable guy some.
And maybe even sharing that flirting in bed with your husband, and taunting him with it. And vice versa. Head games are fun.
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David Alexander wrote a thoughtful note to The Errant Wife in the comments. My buddy Kick a Bitch then laid in with some wisdom himself.
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That is why it is good to let woman starve in the street for society.
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Yea pa jesus I have never seen anything like that. The new nights of the round table.
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I’m sure that’s what you’d like to believe, but the guys are providing men with valuable information on how to avoid frigid harpies. If they’re already right 80% of time, that’s a hell of a good start.
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Some slightly different rules but honor is an eternal one.
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Hey, feng shui consultants are pretty good at organizing and decorating your house, but that doesn’t mean their overall belief system rests on a firm foundation of irrefutable truth.
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“””””””””””””””Dougjnn,
I’m with you gunny. I can always get a woman to enjoy sex with me if she’ll even remotely let me, and I’m at all motivated. (That relates heavily to her looks but if I love her there’s leeway.)”””””””””””””””‘
Yea lol I look at my womans mom and sure I may have to put a bag over her head but her body will still look ok.
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Feng shui? feh. I’ll just drive up to an Ikea and get some ideas there. Cheaper and less kooky. And kinda fun looking at all that smart, thoughtful euro-furniture.
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Well, here is what I see as the only true flaw in game:
Game will get you women, but it won’t necessarily keep you interested in them. If you’re getting sick and tired of a woman, what’s the point of using LTR game?
Once it goes to LTR, the woman’s got to get some game, too.
But starvation IS NOT your other option. Get real. If you aren’t into a guy and you’re single, don’t sleep with him. Isn’t that simple enough?
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Remind me, where did I post anything about feng shui?
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I’m just saying, for guys who are into LTRs for whatever reason (which you aren’t) they’ve got to learn to be the leader.
The only alternative to this is to figure out how to mass-punish women who decide their man isn’t man enough to be their man. The Fuck Me or Starve gambit.
This has a tendency to go over poorly for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the odor of low class and general loseriness that permeates some of the circles who really get excited about that idea.
If it’s true that a woman can easily be manipulated to do whatever you want, due to our weak nature and amoral tendencies, and you have the tools to do this at your disposal, then I fail to understand what the angst is about here.
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You didn’t. I just suspect sexology is about as legitimate a discipline as psychotherapy, or feng shui, or literary deconstruction.
I’m open to having any of these arenas supported, though; upper-middle-class pretentiousness gives me a headache sometimes, but this is more prejudice than pride.
Tell me about your childhood.
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Welmer–
My woman has this ideology that she NEVER, and I do mean never, refuses me sex. Never ever.
It’s up to me to not abuse it. But she likes me to abuse it some.
She can be dead tired and I can wake her up and she’ll do her best. She might just fall asleep but usually not. But if she’s really too tired, why would I push her? I did at first some to establish things. But not much now. She’s SOOO good to me. In extremis she might wimper a little. How could I ignore that? I can’t.
I mean she can be cooking and I can come up behind her and play with her breasts and yank down her panties and flip up her skirt if that’s what’s she got on and bend her over the kitchen table either way, and just do it. Quicky style. I mean a situation where I’m not working on pleasing her at all, in this instance. But she gets off on my wanting her so much and her just pleasing me. Really gets off on it.
But we have a subtle communication. If I start down this path and she’s not much responding I’ll let it go with just the feeling her up. I know I can go bending her over and all, but since I know I can, I don’t, if it’s not coming back to me enough.
We can be driving somewhere and I can just unzip and look over at her and she’ll take it from there. Or if she’s really not in the mood (but she’s a honey minx) she’ll ask “do I have to?” If the answer’s yes, then that’s it. She wouldn’t have it any other way.
Of course there’s the full court press of driving her crazy too. Up to me. Though she’ll definitely tease and eye plead and all that to get me into it. Works real well on me. But she’ll drop it too if I look cross at her. Usually. Sometimes she just goes into overdrive flirting, the horny minx, to overcome all resistance. She has a damn fine track record at that when she’s determined.
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Welmer: Just for fun, here’re some Islamic thoughts on this. I draw your attention to the following and the passages that follow:
“Not one of you should fall upon his wife like an animal; but let there first be a messenger between you.” “And what is that messenger?” they asked, and he replied: “Kisses and words.” (Daylami)
The responsibility, of course, is mutual. In non-Western tradition, though, I know who is mostly responsible and it ain’t the ladies.
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There so cute when you wake them up.
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bhetti, my love, you must send me a messenger. preferably to the man in my pants.
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“””””””””“Not one of you should fall upon his wife like an animal; but let there first be a messenger between you.” “And what is that messenger?” they asked, and he replied: “Kisses and words.” (Daylami)””””””””””””
That is talking cuddly 101.
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dude, the messenger should be a rubber spatula. hahahaha
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lurker: I bet you say that to all the muslim girls. But first, you really need to fix the thyroid problem.
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Gunny: Islam is all about the cuddles! With a side order of cutesie flowers. I thought this was cute.
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lurker: But first you need to take photographs and documentary evidence. After all, it is a medical rarity to have a thyroid problem confined to within one’s pants.
For the sake of medical science, man!
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omw: … well, you’ve been having fun, haven’t you!
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too much fun, darling. Too much.
At this rate, I’ll have another baby by January or February, which is ridiculous.
Medically speaking, why does each baby have to leave its OWN set of stretch marks? Can’t you doctor-people do something about that?
It’s 2009, for heaven’s sake!
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Ah, I get it. You’re thinking about divorce.
Since you are a WN, let me offer you this solution, observed by Tacitus as practiced by Germanic peoples in the 1st century AD:
Amongst a people so numerous, adultery is exceeding rare; a crime instantly punished, and the punishment left to be inflicted by the husband. He, having cut off her hair, expells her from his house naked, in presence of her kindred, and pursues her with stripes throughout the village. For, to a woman who has prostituted her person, no pardon is ever granted. However beautiful she be, however young, however abounding in wealth, a husband she can never find. In truth, nobody turns vices into mirth there, nor is the practice of corrupting and of yielding to corruption, called the custom of the Age. Better still do those communities, in which none but virgins marry, and where to a single marriage all their views and inclinations are at once confined. Thus, as they have but one body and one life, they take but one husband, that beyond him they may have no thought, no further wishes, nor love him only as their husband but as their marriage.6 To restrain generation and the increase of children, is esteemed an abominable sin, as also to kill infants newly born. And more powerful with them are good manners, than with other people are good laws.
So on the one hand, you complain about upper-class snobs, and then on the other you find the “odor” of lower class people to indicate loseriness. You have a complex, my dear.
It isn’t about angst; it’s about education. Roissy is a teacher, you see. Men here want to know, and knowledge is what they receive. What you interpret as “angst” is actually a thirst for truth.
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That was a nice read.
“”””””””””””””After fear of God, a believer gains nothing better for him than a good wife who obeys him if he gives her a command, pleases him if he looks at her, is true to him if he adjures her to do something, and is sincere towards him regarding her person and his property if he is absent. (Ibn Majah)
“”””””””””
And yea cute I may have to work out to surprize my baby. She is already a “boss” but if her man worked out he is quite handsome in shape. I just like to have her love even with the flaws it makes it interesting for me.
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“””””””””””‘Welmer,
It isn’t about angst; it’s about education. Roissy is a teacher, you see. Men here want to know, and knowledge is what they receive. What you interpret as “angst” is actually a thirst for truth.
“”””””””””””””
Truth
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Did you know that the woman who wrote that is a white, British convert, née Rosalyn Rushbrook? You expect me to take this as representative of Islam?
lol
I’m not that stupid.
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omw: I think the problem is that is the field of biochemistry and no medical student wants to research biochemistry. The beauty industry has it well covered with their pseudomethods anyway and if the medical community produced anything, it would be too expensive, imperfect and people would still prefer the ‘natural’ therapies. *is not jaded*
*is jaded*
I’m actually not sure what methods cosmetic surgeons might use to address this. I suppose theoretically there is some sort of solution, but the scarring risks for whatever it is probably outweigh the stretch marks. I’m still an ignorant medical student.
Consider yourself lucky you only get them with babies, and not if your weight fluctuates a teeny bit (well, hopefully). Some people have that problem.
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Yes, I’m a little picky about social status, like most women. A bit tribal, if you will.
I like to know how the other nine-tenths live… but really care most for my own slice of the society.
‘Tis not such a crime.
But yes, harsh sanctions on extramarital sex have a salutary effect on the institution of marriage in general; they are part and parcel of patriarchy.
But the people who are into that sort of thing now are, generally, fairly low-status, and is there some benefit to me to go there?
Curiosity is one thing, running around waving the MRA flag will get me nothing but bemused stares.
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And, anyway, the business of MR isn’t even authentically patriarchal; it’s as much a gripe-fest of a dead end as radical feminism, far as I can tell.
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To The Insurance:
‘That feminism has become a sham system used to entrap and subjugate men so women like you can take their money and their productive output, and then use it on frivolity and promiscuity. That marriage has become a losing proposition for men, because there is a fair chance that the lovely young woman you marry could very well end up the cheating, lying, self-centered monster that you have clearly become. ‘
Your ridiculous argument is masquerading , poorly, as reason because it is couched in reasonable, logical language. It boils my blood reading it. Feminism is not proved to be a sham system because of one womans blog. Stop generalising. What the hell? There is a fair chance anyone you marry will fuck you over somehow, nothing new there! Roissy may have some insights into women, but he isn’t deserving of all these sycophants slobbering over his decrees. That woman sounds like an idiot who i find despicable. That’s obvious. Her blog doesn’t merit analysis. Men and women both have things to gain and things to lose from marriage and long term relationships. My view is that if you want to sleep with a lot of different people, don’t get married or have a bf/gf unless you are willing to commit, and this applies to both sexes.
This is all so depressing. There are too many infuriating things written here to comment on. I am a feminist. I believe men and women are equal, albeit different, and deserve the same treatment. What is wrong with that? I am feminine, I am emotional, but that doesn’t mean I’m not intelligent. the Insurance, you don’t sound as bad as scary as these commenters, maybe that’s why i bothered to respond to you. Roissy, since you do seem to have a fair amount of female readers, maybe you could write a post for them, advise them on how to achieve happiness. I am 22 years old and fairly attractive (8) so theoretically there is hope for me. i would like to come away from this blog for once not feeling depressed. i don’t know how it is in America but in Australia one is discouraged from marriage before 30.
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Nope. No crime. Pretty normal. Just keep in mind that if you go on a rampage (common occurrence for women your age) your status as a woman will immediately drop, and that will follow you for the rest of your life. Contemplate “permanent.”
YOU think they are low status. You must be watching too much TV. Do you know what TV programs are generally aimed at? The lowest common denominator.
Are your girlfriends telling you it is “low-status?” Who are they, society women in East Hampton? I didn’t think so…
It is this stuff that makes me glad I am a man. Status and class mean little to me, and most men of “status” are quite aware of the fact that, because these things that bring it can be bought and sold, it is simply a saleable commodity that can easily pass from one to another with sufficient capital.
If you’re concerned about class, good society women shouldn’t be out waving flags — they should be at home sewing them like Betsy Ross.
As for the rights of men being a “dead end,” what do you think this nation was founded on? What do you think is about to topple Pakistan? You work against the rights of men, and eventually you will be beaten — badly.
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Welmer: nope, I didn’t know that, it seems widely quoted on Islamic sources online. I saw another mainstream scholar talk about pleasing the wife in one of the Q&As but damned if it’s not difficult to find the same information again.
Other sources, varied in reliability:
— Section marked (2)
—
“How about some tips”
— Section 08.
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“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””Rose,
This is all so depressing. There are too many infuriating things written here to comment on. I am a feminist. I believe men and women are equal, albeit different, and deserve the same treatment. What is wrong with that? I am feminine, I am emotional, but that doesn’t mean I’m not intelligent. the Insurance, you don’t sound as bad as scary as these commenters, maybe that’s why i bothered to respond to you. Roissy, since you do seem to have a fair amount of female readers, maybe you could write a post for them, advise them on how to achieve happiness. I am 22 years old and fairly attractive (8) so theoretically there is hope for me. i would like to come away from this blog for once not feeling depressed. i don’t know how it is in America but in Australia one is discouraged from marriage before 30.”””””””””””””””””””””
Just make a choice and be willing to walk through the fires of hell with your man you commit to hand in hand. That should be all it takes.
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Welmer: There is nothing ‘representative’ about Islam, we can only talk about the verses and the theory, and the various interpretations from schools of thought/scholars from this. The only way you have one view of Islam is within an Islamic nation that decides this through its own laws and cultural traditions, which it may justify through Islam. When it really comes down to some things, it really is between you as a muslim, your conscience and God.
Thus the old joke which I’ve mentioned before of not being able to throw a stone into a crowd of muslims without hitting someone everyone else thinks a heretic.
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The MR movement is not a really a gripe-fest…while it certainly has that element, the most important aspect of it is raising AWARENESS.
The current culture is literally a matrix of deception. The media, the educational institutions and secular culture are all based on lies that come from feminism.
Lies that COUNT on people being blissfully ignorant to the realities around them.
The same lies that encourage men to “get in touch with their feminine side” and for women to “get out there and compete and climb that corporate ladder…being a housewife and mother is slavery!”
So you, a conceited, self-centered woman, that continually comes here and talks down to us men that are discussing the truths about our modern day culture, actually agree with many things…yet you speak contemptuously of men that point these things out as being “whiners.” You treat us men that talk about the injustices of the current paradigm as whiners and crybabies.
Sorry dear, too many men AND women, never see the truth until they are literally destroyed by it.
You have cavalierly dismissed the divorce industry horror stories of men raped in divorce court, denied custody and locked into indentured servitude as just another typical, blase “whine” that nobody is interested in.
Sorry dear, but this blog is FULL of people that are VERY interested in this topic.
The worst part is, that you equate extreme feminism with the MR movement…as if they were two sides to the same coin.
Sorry, my dear, they are NOT.
Feminism is based on LIES.
MRA is based on recognizing the TRUTH, and the results of how the feminist lies have impacted society, people and our most personal relationships in a very, very negative and destructive manner.
That is a huge difference.
People talk about MRA = Men’s Rights Activist.
I think a more appropriate definition SHOULD be “Men’s Rights AWARENESS.”
Which is REALLY what it’s all about.
Marching, protests, trying to get media attention? All dead end strategies.
But the more people that WAKE UP to the truth of where we are today, and why we are where we are at…the better for individuals to avoid the traps and pitfalls that this poisonous ideology has set for us.
And your pooh pooh-ing it all is highly annoying ESPECIALLY because you on one hand can admit or recognize some of the problems inherent in the status quo, but on the other hand, talk down to men here that are doing the only realistic thing we CAN do to combat the feminist created Matrix: spreading awareness of the truth.
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“”””””””””””””Welmer,
It is this stuff that makes me glad I am a man. Status and class mean little to me, and most men of “status” are quite aware of the fact that, because these things that bring it can be bought and sold, it is simply a saleable commodity that can easily pass from one to another with sufficient capital. “”””””””””””””””””””
Words cannot express. Wow.
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Naw, I don’t watch TV. Sorry. Try again.
What good is “raising awareness?” Ridiculous! This is some 1970s teenaged bullshite.
What are y’all doing except talking on the Internet (which is fun, but ultimately not particularly useful) or bitching about women at meetings?
That’s what I’m saying. Social class is partly, but not entirely, derived by mere money– at the end of the day, it’s things like mannerisms, speech patterns, ideals, habits, and neighborhoods that create the various tribes we all inhabit.
Men are *less* aware of these things than women, it is true; but they are not entirely unaware of them.
I’ve been hearing for probably ten years now, about how there is a “groundswell” of disaffected, angry, disillusioned men about to Rise Up and Stick it To the Bitches, but damn! I’ve seen nothing, nothing, nothing at all.
Why is this? Why does feminism enjoy continued cachet in the face of its many contradictions, and why do men’s rights guys continue to get nowhere?
I suspect it all goes back to Class. The same reasons the Stormfront crowd never gets anywhere, and at this rate, never will, are the same reasons this MRA stuff will never leave orbit.
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Rose:
Your ridiculous argument is masquerading , poorly, as reason because it is couched in reasonable, logical language. It boils my blood reading it.
If it’s “reasonable” than why should it boil your blood?
That’s because as a self-described feminist, you, like 90% of all the other women out there that don’t really think about it, but proclaim they are a feminist, is based solely on the false idea that a feminist is ONLY about Women not being mistreated, having the right to vote and own property, and to not be treated as simply a sex object.
What you fail to realize is that the advent of feminism IS the primary force in destroying the institution of marriage.
Prior to the feminist revolution, there was a fair chance that anyone you marry WOULD NOT fuck you over somehow. The social stigmas and legal consequences made sure of that. It was those social conventions and legal consequences that feminists have worked tirelessly to overthrow that have resulted in the kind of corruption all too evident in the Errant Wife’s blog.
Except your view entirely ignores the true legal ramifications that have been wrought by the feminist movement. You are not even trying to see the point of view for which roissy and all of us “sycophants” are focused on. (BTW, the true blog sycophants would be all of the “you go girl” mangina’s and whores at the Errant Wife’s blog that cheer on her disgusting lifestyle as “empowering.”)
Tell that to the Errant Wife’s husband. What do you think would happen to him and their three children should they find themselves in divorce court due to her blatant infidelity? You think the courts will treat him “equal?”
That is the core issue with “feminism.” By self-identifying as a “Feminist” You think you’re standing up for women being treated unfairly, but you fail to recognize that the feminist movement has worked endlessly for decades now to codify blatant injustices to men…injustices like no-fault divorce and no reproductive rights.
What kind of fucked up world do you feminazi’s* live in for which a whore like the Errant Wife can literally destroy her family, and STILL receive alimony, child support, and almost assuredly a 95% chance of gaining custody…even though she has been the primary violator of her marriage contract?
Because that, my dear, is the REAL WORLD results of the feminist movement.
[i]*For using the term “FemiNazi”, I apologize profusely…that was out of line and deeply insulting…
….to Nazi’s.[/i]
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It is already leaving orbit owm
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PA-
Yeah, they were good. I liked Arturo’s comment myself. And Art’s comment to her most recent blog post.
They sounded kinda familiar actually. Like they post here under some diff name.
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Really, the thing that raises ordinary female hackles about MR dudes is that they perceive them as being too low-status to submit to.
And then, the complaining actually serves to lower their status even further. A bad cycle, right?
Even the SWPLiest of feminists adore a dominant dude, so long as they consider him worthy of their surrender.
My advice to Rose: You don’t have to submit to all men, just one. Every idiot with a penis and a manifesto doesn’t deserve your respect, admiration and love.
Just make sure the one you pick DOES deserve it.
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Where, Gunny? Because I’ve been hearing exactly that for a decade now.
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I mean I already came up with how to destroy the world. The countdown timer is running. Change is in the wind.
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I say love passionately till then. Be able to have honor be able to meet your maker with a clear heart.
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Only because you are completely self-centered and don’t see the reality of the problems because you yourself are happily married.
This is NOT bullshit.
If only ONE man reads a blog like this one, and looks back on how life is in our current society, he will recognize the truth of how the divorce court industry is set up to financially rape men and put them into indentured servitude at the whim of the dear wife.
And if/when even ONE man gains this insight, he will be that much less likely to become grist for the divorce industry mill. He may forego marriage altogether…or at the very least, he may take a second look at his girlfriend he’s been contemplating turning into his wife, and think about things most guys never do: is she likely to rape me in divorce court?
Because most men that have no clue about these issues, will simply let physical beauty and how great she is in bed be the primary factors he considers as most important when choosing a wife or LTR.
You see no relevance….but I tell you right now, I’ve personally seen close friends in my life who I’ve influenced by being upfront about the truths of our reality. Very real and important, life changing decisions that were made based on my advice…because I AM AWARE.
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I will let you in on a little something, Bhetti:
Islam is a missionary religion like Christianity, and it doesn’t always present itself in its entirety to potential converts.
At first, it’s all rainbows and unicorns and sufi mystics twirling around, and then next thing you know you’re staring at the bottom of a basket with a scimitar poised above your neck.
If you don’t believe that, do some research into Spanish martyrdom in Al-Andalus during the Umayyad Caliphate.
If you really believe that Islam encourages such tender consideration from husbands, perhaps you should marry a Pushtoon Talib and report back to us — if you still have access to the Internet, that is. It would be a noble cross-cultural endeavor, and anyway I would be very curious about the outcome, so I encourage you to do so.
I’ve often wondered what the result of marriage between American women and Talibs might be. I assumed that it would result in a sort of MAD (mutually assured destruction), and have considered writing the Pentagon and suggesting that the best way to vanquish the Taliban would be to give each Talib male an American wife. In return, American men could receive properly trained Pushtoon daughters. Some are actually quite attractive:
Madhubala was born as Mumtaz Jehan Begum Dehlavi in Delhi as the 5th child into a poor, conservative Afghan Pashtun Muslim family of 11 children. A Muslim Holy Man is said to have predicted that the young Mumtaz would earn fame and fortune but would lead an unhappy life and die at a young age. Madhubala, with literal meaning of her name being damsel of honey [ed. oh what bliss!!] has continued to be considered with utmost admiration, with multiple generation of Hindi movie goers even today.
Even today, one can still see in the faces of the people the Hellenistic influence left by Alexander III of Macedon as he screwed his way through the known world, leaving both culture and babies in his wake.
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Oh, Jesus. Well, Dave, if you boys can learn, en masse, to overlook surface beauty to see actual character, you’ll have done something even the saints couldn’t do.
So I’m not holding my breath, right? I don’t really begrudge your mission, as misguided as I think it is, but it is a little irritating to have guys like Welmer breathing down my neck about how inferior I am to him, when I wouldn’t even let a guy like that onto my front porch. He exudes ickiness, not masculine dominance.
It could be an evolving process; perhaps five years from now he’ll have worked through his shit, reached some transcendent vision, and become impervious to the world of petty human bickering.
Perhaps the same is true of the MR “movement,” but it needs to trudge out of its narrow pool of misery to formulate a vision for what society SHOULD be like, not merely carp about how it does its members so wrong.
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Dave from Hawaii
I agree with the great majority of what you’re saying.
However I think you’re coming down too hard on Rose in particular.
I’m not saying that primarily to save a young and according to her hot woman from too much pain — although maybe there’s some of that.
Mostly though it’s because I sense there’s considerable hope with her. Yeah she’s spouting feminism from the get go. What do you expect from a fresh out of college American 22 yo woman? It’s not a virulent or completely unnuanced kind that I’ve heard.
I strongly suspect she is receptive to the idea that men she might be attracted to have to be strong and have some combination of leadership abilities (including in a relationship with her) and seductive skills.
Just sayin’
Again, this is only about tone and ton of bricks, not about the substance of what you’re saying.
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OMW
Really OMW, you often say wise things. But that’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard you say. Just idiotic.
the “consciousness raising” of the 1960’s and 70’s absolutely transformed American society and laws, for better and for worse. There can be and continues to be endless debate about just which of those changes aren’t good, but that they were massive and begun by the “consciousness raising” agitation is beyond debate.
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Welmer: I’m a (loosely, at the moment) muslim Arab. I’m well aware that a significant amount of muslim men don’t apply this and have observed this myself. As I’ve already tried to state with this:
“The responsibility, of course, is mutual. In non-Western tradition, though, I know who is mostly responsible [clarity here: responsible for lack of enjoyment or lack of intercourse] and it ain’t the ladies.”
You seem to be addressing me with some sort of preconceived view of where I’m coming from.
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omw
We are attracted to beauty, but stick around for character.
Good looks get you the job interview. Character gets you the job.
If you are very good-looking but uncertain character we might award you a long-term contract (on an “at will” basis of course).
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I played Delta force 2 for around 2 years I had over 150,000 kills in the game. My max kills were 286 in one 45 minute period. I can guarantee that perfect war will happen at some point along the timeline of this world. The sooner the US is able to develop it the sooner that we can insure the survival of the rest of the planet from a dictator coming to power with the ability to kill people as never before. Hitler had nothing compared to 2000 video gamers linked to moveable weapons platforms.
End Game
2,000 platforms 33 years to kill off population of planet.
10,000 platforms 6.68 years to kill off population of planet.
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However I think you’re coming down too hard on Rose in particular.
Re-read what she wrote, doug:
Why extend the hand of chivalry to a self-proclaimed feminist? C’mon Doug chivalry is for LADIES, not feminists.
I’m sure she’s “empowered” enough to stand up for herself.
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OMW —
It may surprise you to know that even though I’ve bookmarked Mens’ Rights sites over the years many times, and sometimes glanced very briefly telling myself I’d be back to study up on some things, I’ve never done so, and never once commented on one. Although I hadn’t reflected on why until reading similar statements by you months ago, I suspect a lot of the reason was something of a loser or at least bitter and not having moved on whiff that you refer to. Though I never looked around enough to really know, certainly not at all the ones I’ve stumbled upon.
What I know about divorce law and so on I know aside from my own (comparatively not so bad) one years ago, and asking my lawyer(s) lots of what if’s, I’ve leaned by researching it directly. The first time I’ve EVER commented on a site that got into men’s rights subjects some was right here, on this one. Where as you know I’ve done that quite a bit. For the very first time.
It’s places like this, that start out from a PUA and game and overall gender realism base, and that are run by a clear alpha and frequented by quite a few alphas, that are far more likely to have an effect, certainly to begin with.
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No, if the countercultural revolution had been limited to its little rap sessions and meetings, it would have died in its tracks.
It succeeded because it got the most attractive, intelligent, high-class youngsters on board before they had anything much to lose. It made itself appealing, rebellious, sexy, edgy.
Most of the MRA guys strike me as middle-aged, paunchy, divorced guys with no real options.
Focusing so heavily on divorce is a losing issue; it doesn’t strike till a guy is 30, 40; a 21-year-old guy still thinks he’s invincible.
Now, I’m no fan of liberal feminism. You could roll back female suffrage and I wouldn’t even blink. You could ban abortion, roll back no-fault divorce, and tell girls they needed no more than an eighth-grade education, and I’d nod with approval.
But I’m not going to roll over and take random abuse from idiots; those ideas need to come from men I care about and respect, and those men are frankly not that interested in sitting around complaining about women-in-general.
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@dougjnn
“However I think you’re coming down too hard on Rose in particular. ”
I agree; Rose seems to be open to discussion, try not to beat her over the head right away. We can save her yet.
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Welmer: Did you just say sufism was Islamic? No, that was in the same sentence as unicorns etc. so you didn’t.
You’re not seriously suggesting I go sacrifice myself to a Pashtun for a great social experiment. That would be like giving someone a woman based on the fact that he’s a Catholic, and whatever matromonial duties are encouraged by Catholicism. Sure, they’re encouraged. Does the ass in question follow them? Probably not!
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I’ve never been to a meeting to bitch about women. I didn’t even know such meetings existed. When I get together with men at a meeting much more Machiavellian things are discussed.
They are only aware because women constantly remind them.
Who have you been listening to? I’ve been hearing no such thing. Many preachers say the rapture will happen any day; I don’t listen to them. Try developing some critical thinking skills and don’t look for someone to offer you a grand theory of everything.
Guys working for men’s rights have made huge progress since the 1980s. We had a big setback with VAWA, but I think that was low tide, and things are coming back around. You’ve just got to understand the concept of momentum. Maybe it’s hard when you’re young, but I’ve figured it out and I only have a few years on you. Generally speaking, people become a lot more practical around 30.
You’re just still in the activist mentality. Activism is fine, but it’s like trial by fire. You don’t necessarily win the war while huddling in the trenches, but you learn what’s going on. It’s when the smoke and dust clears that you get on with things.
You’ve just got to stop hoping for the “big win” and start getting down to business. You learn the ideology while young, and then you grow up and see reality. But look at you: you’re a young woman with three kids and you’re already thinking about giving up, looking for excuses like “class” and all that. Forget it. You’ll get things done if you have the strength to hang in there for now. Try to see the big picture and quit being a baby.
BTW, I’ve got kids and I know it’s hard, so at least I’ll give you a break on that one. But if you let them down, no breaks at all.
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Thanks, Doug. That makes a lot of sense.
You know, I looked up, out of curiosity, a CS calculator for my state: in the event of a divorce, it looks like my husband would pay about 1000 bucks a month for CS.
This seems not unreasonable to me; we have three kids under the age of five. That’s about what daycare would cost.
All this talk of Divorce Assrape seems a little… over-the-top to me. The divorced women of my acquaintance work shit jobs, drive shit cars, and live in the trailer park. My mom was always subtly snobbish to them when I was growing up. LOL.
Whence this idea that American women live large on child support? I ask humbly.
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You know what OMW, I’ll agree to that. There are MR sites that are basically nothing but a bunch of bitter guys bitching about women. But that is not what the entire “movement” is about.
It’s still necessary for some people out there to tell the truth and help open the eyes of the ignorant.
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OMW
I do acknowledge that women perceive and care a lot more about social class (status clues) than men. If I were in an irritable mood I would point out how that saves them time in figuring out with whom they should want to fuck.
But men often notice and care about the world of inanimate stuff, which is why basically 100% of technological innovation comes from nerdy males.
Which brings me to my point: Class/social rank/status clues are mid-brain perceptions. It comes from an intuited sense one gets from all aspects of a person. But technological change is mostly fore-brain based and largely conscious. Disruptive, hard to stop, hard to disregard new develoments. Stuff like widespread, very cheap DNA paternity tests. Or the un-censorable internet. And just wait until the discoveries emanating from the human genome project begin to destroy the basis for believing oh so many myths held dear by the “best” people in the highest levels of our current heirachy.
These factors will bend the course of the future and the social class of their originators will not matter much.
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dougjnn, omw
Regarding MRA and that loserville feel.
Perhaps the problem is that most men involved there have already lost. They have been beaten down by the system.
Just as victories (sex, business, or sport) boost a man’s confidence, losses have the opposite effect.
A man who has had his children, his house, half his wealth, and 35 percent of his income ripped from him is not going to be feeling very Alpha. It would be hard not to be a bitter beta in that position.
Sites like this get men before the fall. The other places are after the fall.
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Of course I did, and it is (sort of).
Why not? I am extremely curious about how things would work out between a Talib and an American wife.
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It’s not even about “living large.” It’s about basic morality.
Take the topic du jour of this thread: why should the Errant Wife receive a dime of alimony? Why should she get the family home? Why should she receive custody and the child support that goes with it?
She so egregiously violated her marriage contract…yet the current system can and does typically reward her with all of those things…not just child support.
She is essentially being rewarded for breaking up her family.
It doesn’t matter if she’s living poorly after the divorce…the fact is if a person is in breach of there contract, they should pay the consequences for it, not get rewarded AT THE EXPENSE OF THE WRONGED PARTY IN THAT CONTRACT.
Even if child support were only $1 week for each child, that would be $1 too much for a piece of garbage like her.
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I have seen an arab and an american shrew she took his balls and his soul.
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In other words, I do not easily identify with lots of MRAs, much less stormfront types, but I think your head is in the sand if you think their lumpenproletariat accents mean they are wrong about everything or that their viewpoints might not eventually prevail in polite society.
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So, this particular woman is, arguably, a slut, (if indeed the blog author is female, and this is the internet, so who knows?) and no-fault divorce has been worse for American society than not; this necessitates broad-brush hostility against women, from Honolulu to Tulsa to Pittsburgh and Ontario?
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this necessitates broad-brush hostility against women, from Honolulu to Tulsa to Pittsburgh and Ontario?
No…just hostility towards woman like her and towards woman AND men that condone and support the current system that enables such things to continue.
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“Lumpenprole accents!” Well put, Rum. Yes, that makes perfect sense to me.
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“””””””””””””Rum
OMW
I do acknowledge that women perceive and care a lot more about social class (status clues) than men. If I were in an irritable mood I would point out how that saves them time in figuring out with whom they should want to fuck.””””””””
This is why you just save up and buy the “car” Shits easy which makes it comical.
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Anyway, I do want to know where this idea comes from that American women get divorces for the money.
It just never makes sense to me, and I’ve seen at least Doug, and possibly Dave, float this idea more than once.
From where I sit, divorce looks like a one-way ticket to a hand-to-mouth existence, and I’d have to be pretty damn desperate to bail now.
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Dave from Hawaii, dougjnn, rose
A gentle chivalrous culling of pretty lies may be just the thing she needs. Dominant yes, but charming too.
An “empowered” woman just needs a slightly more empowered man to guide her. This is not appeasement, more like seduction.
Rose
Regarding your happiness. Find a man that you are willing to be led by, a man you can admire, a man you can look up too. Then forget much of that feminist “empowerment” stuff. You can still be smart, educated and wonderful but you must let your man lead you.
[Obviously your man should be worthy of such admiration, but the point still stands]
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OM…what we are seeing is not a “groundswell” of men rising up. What we are seeing is AWARENESS affecting the decisions men make when it comes to their lives.
On one hand, you have the marriage strike.
Than you have men who “go their own way” (Google MGTOW). Essentially, a lot of guys are going “david alexander” and just dropping out of the entire game of love to focus on their hobbies and work lives. Than you have the expats, that literally leave the West to find wives that haven’t been corrupted by the Feminist zeitgeist.
It’s not a “groundswell.”
It’s just more and more men choosing to drop out of the game altogether, and/or simply resorting to sport fucking.
The “great crash” that Western civilization is surely headed towards is not going to be “men uprising against women.” It’s going to be civilized society falling into barbarism (can you not see we are already well on our way?) because of the sexual chaos the feminist movement has unleashed, the foundation of civilized society, the nuclear, Patriarchal family; has been decimated.
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Welmer: Have not stepped foot in America and am not American. I did not say ‘Muslim Arab American’ or ‘Muslim Arab British’. I said, muslim Arab. I have lived in the UK for a couple of years. My knowledge of English is purely the product of education.
We can take up the rest some other time.
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OMW
Yeah.
I’m not interested in complaining about women in general at all. I do think analyzing them to better understand them as Roissy does, and a few commenters do effectively from time to time here as well, is useful.
Raising male concern and yes anger, and hopefully after that some female support, for what’s wrong with divorce law with a view to changing it though is another thing.
As well there is bad cultural programming that’s badly affecting many gen Y guys especially. It’s making a higher proportion into the herbs of the sort you couldn’t imagine being able to live with happily in a marriage, like it seems your first husband. There will always be such guys but the percentages can change. Women will always want the relatively most alpha if they can get them. But they won’t be so unhappy with higher betas if they aren’t also culturally created herbs.
That’s a social concern for me. It has nothing to do with my own situation with women. Well actually so too is my divorce law concern at this point. That one’s solved for me.
But for young guys wanting kids, even if they’re lesser alphas or higher betas — not so much. Solid alphas also run higher risks than they should — or than as you say young ones will admit to themselves that they do.
In a religious community such as yours, all of this is greatly dampened — or time warped backwards, I think.
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Eh, but even if ninety percent of the men dropped out today, society will still be inherited, by default, by the children of the guys who, for whatever reasons, didn’t drop out.
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Bhetti —
Well THAT needs to change right quick.
I thought it was changing, like real soon. Those plans changed?
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doug: That comment did not allude to future plans. I plan to at least remedy the visiting part. A permanent move would be a purely selfish one and I need to remember to take family into consideration.
Would it be typically female if I asked you why you’re so interested?
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Bhetti–
Yes.
But since you’re so hot and proved it to me with pics, I’ll tell you.
Mild flirting. Even though I’ve since confessed to being 102 and you’ve confessed to being 20. What’s 1/5 my age to stop me?
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OMW
Indeed, humanity as a biological fact, will go on; with or without disgruntled bachelors or childless feminist over-achievors. Thing is, I think that most of this damage is the result of high class people believing i stupid ideas.
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In real terms, it’s not simply “about the money.”
It’s about incentives and consequences.
Under the current paradigm, there is simply no legal consequences for women to break the marital contract.
Knowing that a woman stands a big chance in getting the house, car, custody, alimony and child support money should the marriage “fail” gives women much less of an incentive to “work” on their marriage, or take their “commitment” seriously. Yeah, it might not be a large some of money for her to live large on…but it’s certainly enough that she isn’t afraid of paying any real penalty for behaving like the Errant Wife
It’s all carrot for her, all stick for him.
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LOL!
“out of curiosity”
I called it first. Anyway, OMW, if you’re going to divorce your husband, do it honorably: don’t start an affair, try to get a joint custody agreement, and try to divide the property according to what both of you can agree on.
Don’t think that you can sneak attack the guy and win. It doesn’t always work that way. One thing I can tell you is that having his physical help in raising the children will ultimately be worth more than the child support you’ll get out of him, so you might prefer joint physical custody.
You might want to draw up an agreement where you have majority custody until they’re in school, and then you share. That way you’ll get the CS when it’s really necessary, and then dad can share the burden with you and the two of you won’t fight about CS (motions can be very expensive). You might be surprised, but a lot of dads will put in a hell of a lot of work raising the kids if they get equal parenting rights, and that will more than offset CS if you get a job.
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1050 bucks a month and a 12-year-old van? This is the rottenest carrot I’ve ever contemplated.
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Geez, Welmer, all this talk of how FABULOUSLY RICH I would be as a divorced woman drove me to Google. I confess!
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OM – 1050 a month, a van and CUSTODY is a helluva a lot more than NOTHING…
….which is what happened when there was At-Fault divorce and a cheating wife was caught, prior to the feminists lobbying for no-fault divorce laws.
In the majority of cases, it’s really not about $$$…it’s about child custody.
The statistics are undeniable…since the implementation of no-fault divorce, divorce has risen exponentially…and 70+% of divorces are initiated by women.
If it were such a bad deal, why would that be?
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Oh yeah, I forgot you’re not American.
You are a Muslim Arab? Where are those pics dougjnn mentioned? I’ve got this one Arab girl I knew stuck in my mind. Can’t really forget about her. Maybe your photo could bring back sweet memories. 😉
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“””””””””””””on April 23, 2009 at 11:08 pm omw
1050 bucks a month and a 12-year-old van? This is the rottenest carrot I’ve ever contemplated.””””””””””””
My woman makes more than you would hahahahaahahaha
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I never told you that. In most cases women’s standard of living goes down in divorce. That’s because they usually get full custody, which kind of destroys their career potential. This is why I recommend joint physical custody when the kids are in grade school (moms are better for very small ones). Dad will be grateful, it will probably motivate him to be a good man for his kids, he will not be bitter over CS, and you have more time to work/pursue your own interests
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Well, if Dad gets custody, he’s going to have to pay some woman to watch the youngsters anyway.
Most men are just not that interested in being the primary caregiver, especially to the very young ones. (Exceptions exist, of course.)
I think that, in cases where there hasn’t been obvious misconduct, Dad should be stuck with the kids and no CS obligations, and Mom should walk away with nothing at all, except a restraining order against the family.
Then you can have an exiled whore, and a hassled father left holding the diaper bag.
Wouldn’t that throw a big fun monkeywrench into the game? The wailing and gnashing of teeth!
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Anyway, this business about women filing more often seems pointless to me: equality of opportunity doesn’t necessarily produce equality of outcome, and does this mean we have to tinker with the system till exactly half of all divorces are filed by each sex?
You’d think a crowd of Sailer fans would be unlikely to march to that drummer.
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Actually that works out b best for the guy OWM
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I get touchy about discussions of “class” I grew up amongst the proles of middle America. I happen to think that they are some of the best people anywhere and if it were not so this country would go into the shithouse.
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doug: You’re 102 years of trouble is what you are. I’m off this week, I can’t detect or suspect these things or address what you’re saying. I’m going to go get some much needed sleep now.
Welmer: my pics are reserved for grandpa doug, I’m afraid.
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omw–
Even though I could reverse engineer your husband’s income with some precision since I think I know what state you live in, ain’t gonna do that. And would never announce it here.
However, as I’ve guessed before and you haven’t disagreed, in your middle middle income situation, if you two divorced, you’d both be deeply hurt economically.
However, depending on how old your youngest is, or when he/she starts going to school, you can up your situation considerably. You husband has a limited ability to do so.
If you want to, you can keep close tabs on his income and garnish the same percentage of any increases in it. He gets no benefits from increases in yours, which could become percentage wise huge, being a smart cookie, once you’ve got a bit of experience in the workforce.
But again as I’ve said, the biggest relative power screwing is to upper middle and upper upper middle class men. You’re in your own religious group thing which allows you to both celebrate alpahs and really turn up your nose at any men who aren’t or damn close (which I understand), but also scorn the mainstream ” rich” upper and upper upper middle class.
By no means are all those guys alphas, but most are at least higher betas, with a higher proportion of alphas mixed in than most other places.
Ok now. Step back for a moment. Try to put yourself in a man’s position. Imagine you’re a doctor who’s married a hottie. Imagine you’re not a shlub nerd doctor, nor or you a super stud one. Imagine you’re a fairly good looking, tall, naturally confident, outgoing, and somewhat studly doctor. A lesser alpha. You get there a lot on status and money, and a good slug on good (not stellar) charisma and charm. Not much (anti feminism and anti chivalry learned) game.
This less alpha doctor marries a smart 8 who’s thrilled to get him. Not thrilled to death because he’s not the most thrilling and charismatic alpha she’s been with, no there were 4 hotter ones, but they weren’t marriage material and weren’t offering her either. She’s got a PR job and does well at it, but after awhile really doesn’t want the job stress, especially after she missed a promotion maybe because she was shirking off a bit on hours. So she quits. Has two kids.
Well she always was sluttier than her husband ever knew. Not a super slut but well, she got around at times. And yeah he became too nice to her in marriage, and not gamingly edgie enough. And those thrilling alphas she remembers wistfully. So she has an affair. And another. Maybe she falls in love, and even though that married guy won’t leave his wife, she therefor falls out of love with her husband, as women usually do in such circumstances.
Or she just has multiple predatory slut affairs, a few with real alphas.
She becomes Errant Wife.
He finds out, and is devastated. He asks her to stop and she either won’t or says she will and is, but doesn’t.
She knows she’s getting No Fault divorce theft riches. And from him they will be.
Does this strike you as right?
Remember you’re supposed to like alphas, and higher betas a lot more than those lower down.
Think of how much power, and really in some ways part of his alphaness he gave up simply by the act of marrying his wife as opposed to living with her in present day feminist no fault divorce law America.
As well the child support=alimony for professional level earning men isn’t something he can get around through a prenup. Even when it’s her that massively wronged him.
So women married to higher status high earning men have the cudgel of divorce theft to wield as threat against cheating against their men (who typically want to a whole lot more if they’re alphas or close), while such men have the cudgel of WHAT to wield over their wives if they contemplate or refuse to stop cheating (like Errant Wife).
Men’s cudgel is exactly the same economic punishment of them that they’d face if she cheated, these feminist no fault days.
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I think the important thing about that setup isn’t that it’s “better” for one party or the other, but that it would force a lot of couples to grit their teeth and get through the hardest years– when you’re in the trenches with toddlers and preschoolers.
I’ve seen couples pull the plug then, believing there is no end in sight.
No money for a sitter, no older siblings to lend a hand; it gets easy to squabble over the smallest scraps of time or freedom if you don’t guard against sourness and repeat to yourself “This too shall pass.”
Life gets better, my mom assures me, as they get older and can be trusted in the house by themselves for an hour or two.
And for God’s sake, make them sleep in their own cribs!
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Dave from Hawaii–
Yeah exactly.
You captured the power differential created by the law quite neatly. That differential just completely reverses what’s naturally there. What it does is emasculate the economic power that men typically bring into a marriage.
That of course was PRECISELY the feminist intent. It worked better than they expected, I think.
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OMW–
You’d have to marry a fabulously rich man without a prenup (or in the UK which ignores them) for that to be the case my dear. As any simpleton should know would be requisite.
Then you would be.
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OMW–
Then you wouild be even if you were Errant Wife.
Does that strike you as right?
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1050 bucks
Funny part about this is I made 1300 a month (after removing health insurance) loading 1600 boxes a day for 8 hours. There are probably a lot of americans making this type of money. So yea 1050 for not doing shit is a lot of money.
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People on here do seem to be high income people who have time to read blogs. Really the ones who get there lives torn up are the average people. What about a guy making 1300 a month who loses a third of his money.
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Dave from Hawaii,
I said masquerade as an argument by using reasonable language, it’s different. It is difficult reading this blog where there is so many angry and negative things said about women and not getting frustrated by it. People can say they are Liberal (in my country that’s the right end of the political spectrum) and not identify with every policy . I want to retain what is good about feminism. It has achieved some great things for women, and that’s the part I care about. In Errant Wife’s case i don’t think she should get any money from her husband if they divorced after her behaviour. So assuming all these things about me is not helpful. i don’t have to fit in, and I won’t, with your narrow definitions. Can you really be surprised after centuries of oppression by the current state of gender relations? things will swing the other way soon enough no doubt.
I am not a feminist who will bridle at being called a lady. So chivalry is not for me because I subscribe to the basic tenets of feminism? i know how aggressive some people are on here so I’m not surprised by your attack.
Dougjn, I do want to be with a man who has can lead, is strong, seductive, who wouldn’t? I do think that’s incredibly important for attraction, to be able to respect and admire your lover. I haven’t met many though. Maybe it’s because I never meet guys older than I am. I would give everything, be faithful, of course! But will I just be left by the way side when I turn 35 as my ‘alpha’ starts shagging young babes? Why should I sign myself over to that?
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OMW
What about in cases like Errant Wife’s?
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Then you get some guy who makes it past the gaunlet and he makes 3500 a month and he has to give a 1000 to a woman he no longer wants to even deal with and doesn’t want to be with him.
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I’m tired as hell, but: Why is this doc marrying a slut, again?
It’s true I have very limited sympathy for the upper middle class. They are so often obnoxious.
Their women look askance on my homemade dresses and cheap double stroller. Their men barely notice I exist. My children are dressed in stuff my MIL bought from them at a yard sale or Goodwill.
‘Tis hard for me to care.
Now, the men of my own social standing who are divorced– it doesn’t ruin them. They remarry, have more kids, maintain joint custody of their previous kids; they’re not dropping out or running away or becoming pick-up artists.
To me, those are normal guys. I feel bad for some of them, but mostly, they are human beings and they had a hand in the dissolution of their first marriages, too– dumb stuff, mostly, like marrying a 19-year-old girl who’s already got two kids and comes from a broken home. Doh!
Or encouraging their wives to join the military, so they could have a better standard of living, only to find that four years of alternating deployments will kill a marriage. Doh!
Drive on!
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1050 is about what you’d have to pay a daycare center to watch that many kids, Greg.
Errant Wife should definitely be obliged to leave her kids with her husband, and walk away entirely. If he could prove infidelity, she’d have to pay child support.
What’s complicated about that? Everything!
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omw,
You come across as one desirable woman. You seem smart as hell, which I really like. If you live in DC, let me know, because I’d like to hear what you have to say. I’ll even let you meet my wife. But then, maybe not…
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Yea its easy to forget that all the people you see doing those little bullshit jobs are not making a lot of money. Unless they do a few of those bullshit jobs maybe they can get ahead.
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Rose
Women have always gotten the gender relationships they happened to want at the time. The supposed “Oppression” of women is just another lie.
Feminism per se changed nothing. Nerdy guys invented the means for women to live independently.
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Rose,
I like you. You sound like you have your shit together. And that is very sexy, no matter what the majority of the chumps on this blog say. You should walk away now if you want to preserve any shred of respect for men. Unless, that is, you are a cultural anthropologist. If that’s the case, by all means, stick around.
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That’s I guess where having a cougar in the family as a relative could work out good for a guy. She could watch the kids for him lol
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Welmer:
The results showed that the appropriately trained sexologists were able to correctly infer vaginal orgasm through watching the way the women walked over 80 percent of the time. Further analysis revealed that the sum of stride length and vertebral rotation was greater for the vaginally orgasmic women. “This could reflect the free, unblocked energetic flow from the legs through the pelvis to the spine,” the authors note.
Reminds me of Lowen and Reichian Therapy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich#Theories
He went off the rails with his “Orgone Theory” but his study of “character armor” and its relation to muscular tension/neurosis was basically sound IMO.
PA:
Feng shui? feh. I’ll just drive up to an Ikea and get some ideas there. Cheaper and less kooky. And kinda fun looking at all that smart, thoughtful euro-furniture.
Little known fact: Ikea is a great place to run Day Game. Lots of young hotties at the store in my city, all looking to be “hip” in decorating their first apartment.
“Your coffee table would look good in my living room”, etc.
You heard it here first.
OMW:
but it is a little irritating to have guys like Welmer breathing down my neck about how inferior I am to him,
When did he say anything like that? You were the one casting aspersions on the classes above you and below you, and all he did was point it out. The lady doth protest too much.
Gunny:
End Game
2,000 platforms 33 years to kill off population of planet.
10,000 platforms 6.68 years to kill off population of planet.
“In order for immortality to exist, most of the human race will need to be destroyed — and it will be. At first, of course, there will be the obligatory moaning about the ‘tragedy.’ But, within a few months, this destruction will be seen as a happy and necessary event, just as euthanasia will, in time, be seen as a ‘new’ solution to the ‘problems’ of overpopulation and the funding of Social Security systems.” – C.S.H.
OMW:
But I’m not going to roll over and take random abuse from idiots; those ideas need to come from men I care about and respect, and those men are frankly not that interested in sitting around complaining about women-in-general.
So, the clear and rational elucidation of the injustices suffered by those fucked by the System have no meaning to you, and would only have meaning to you if they came from men you are attracted to and whom are not likely to suffer the same fate? Droll.
Dave From Hawaii:
every post in this thread
Bravo. You need to start your own blog.
Doug, to Bhetti:
But since you’re so hot and proved it to me with pics
I would like to see these “pics” I remain firmly unconvinced.
“
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Worrying about the fate of people you don’t know, and don’t truly care about, is the province of busybodies and socialists.
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That’s exactly how it used to be.
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Who is C.S.H.
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No shite, Welmer.
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“””””””””””””””””omw
Worrying about the fate of people you don’t know, and don’t truly care about, is the province of busybodies and socialists.””””””””””””””
I don’t just worry about fate. I teach people to overcome and control fate.
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Can’t you read? That’s why I suggested you have majority custody until they’re in school, then change to joint. He won’t need a woman when they’re school age any more than you will.
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Worrying about the fate of people you don’t know, and don’t truly care about, is the province of busybodies and socialists.
Who said anything about worry? I’m just talking about acknowledging the truth of critiques of the current state of things by people who have been trampled.
To say their analyses have no merit because those folks don’t remind you of your husband is so…feminine.
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Whatever the case, OMW, don’t think about grabbing another dick to get out of this. You do it yourself. That’s how grown-ups handle things, and your kids will have a hell of a lot more respect for you in the long run if you keep your honor intact.
Chances are, if you’re that unhappy, your husband probably isn’t in seventh heaven either, even if he is keeping his mouth shut and soldiering on.
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No, no, no, that’s not a lot different than having some upper-class anti-racist nutjob exhort me to acknowledge my white privilege:
“You don’t have to be part of the KKK to be part and parcel of an evil system; examine thyself and fall in line with the ideology of liberation!”
Then spout some statistic about how too many blacks are in jail, demand to know why the numbers are so skewed.
“You don’t have to be a radical feminist to be part of an evil empire of ballbusting; examine thyself, and fall in line!”
Then spout whatever statistic about how wicked women file for divorce fifty percent more often than saintly men, demand a satisfactory explanation.
I ain’t acknowledging a damn thing anymore. LOL. It’s all the same. All the same!
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Go fuck yourself, Welmer.
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God, I’m cracking myself up out here. Who tells an idiot to fuck themselves over the internet? What does that even mean?
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Go fuck yourself, Welmer.
I know Alias Clio, and you are no Alias Clio.
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Oh, I missed that one.
You’re bitter because I saw right through you and knew what you were all about. You are looking to divorce your husband, and I called it. You want some guys to validate you, and I see that now. You’re picking a fight with me because you think you are smart enough to win, and you think that some verbal victory will strengthen your resolve, but intellectually speaking you hit like a girl. Women like you are deeply affected when men can stare right through their charades and penetrate all the accoutrements into the core of their being, which is their vagina.
Is that icky enough for you? You can hide and equivocate, but ultimately your goal is a sticky prevarication. Through all the layers of rationalization, one can still discern the infrared signature of a throbbing vulva that will not be bound by… AnyMan!
Congratulations, omw, you have proven yourself to be a perfect example specimen. You should be drowned in a barrel of formaldehyde and put on display in the nearest museum of natural history.
OMW, I have penetrated your psyche. Do you feel it in your… Core?
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Rose–
Many feminists want female lead relationships. I think that may be becoming less common, but it’s deeply in the Anglosphere country. BTW, you’re from Oz right?
Girlfriend, you do need to go out with older guys. 5-10 years older is probably about right given your age. As much as 13 years older maybe. There are many reasons for this. For one thing he’ll have started to prove himself or not a lot more. But also he’ll be more confidant and stronger, all things being equal. As well, he’ll have started to get some of his wild oat seed sowing out of his system — that is if he’s been alpha enough to have been getting it quite a bit.
No. If you at 22 meet your alpha at 24 after looking and having fun in the process for a couple of years, and marry him at 25, and he’s ten years older, then when you’re 35 and have two kids he’ll be 45, and you’ll still seem hot to him. You especially will if you’re very good to him sexually. See my post about my woman for my idea of what great to him sexually is about — i.e. when you’re not at first feeling it.
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All women are your ex-wife, aren’t they, Welmer? Perhaps you’ll make an (irrational) exception for your daughter when she comes of age.
The funny thing is, it’s a satisfying Theory of Everything that’ll probably carry you to your grave.
Someday you’ll be an 80 year old guy complaining about how the women in the nursing home are all out to get you– once a person latches onto their own pet ToE, it’s hard to shake it off.
Anyway, nope, I’m not looking to get a divorce. Keep hoping!
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Rose
Near the end of the comments to the immediately prior blog post.
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Rose.
Scratch that. This thread.
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Anyway, WHY do I dislike Welmer so much? A fair question.
Because it’s true, I do dislike him more personally than I should dislike a mere blog commenter. Isn’t that odd?
He doesn’t say anything particularly more vile than half the other commenters, but it irritates me five times more when he spews it forth. Most of the others are either amusing or charming, by turns, somehow.
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Part of the reason we have no fault divorce is because back in the old days of ‘fault-based’ divorce, people would simply go around setting up false affairs which would turn divorce proceeds into a giant mud-slinging dirt digging circus (even more so than they are today). Today it’s a costly and time-consuming process even without the mud-slinging.
As screwed up as the laws are, realistically, I don’t think there’s a feminist conspiracy to keep men down. I think our laws are simply antiquated and they’re meant to work for an older generation that no longer exists. It used to be that divorce left women destitute with no sources of income because the man was the primary breadwinner and the woman, having spent years taking care of the kids, never developed any marketable skills in the workplace. Of course that’s all changed today because we live in a world in which women now outnumber men in most undergraduate classrooms and professional schools.
My point: the effect of the laws is to give women a commanding advantage in a marriage situation, but I don’t think it’s a concerted effort by feminists to make it happen. As the cliche goes, never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.
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Stupid asshole:
“As screwed up as the laws are, realistically, I don’t think there’s a feminist conspiracy to keep men down.”
Third degree Rapo game. See: Mike Tyson.
And I’m out!
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OMW–
So do you dislike me too omw? You sure have fought with me a lot. Or you used to. Only a little lately, with overtures after.
Actually lately you seem almost a little …. affectionate.
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Doug, I guess you’ve grown on me.
You stubborn old coot.
😉
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Dougjnn:
“So do you dislike me too omw? You sure have fought with me a lot. Or you used to. Only a little lately, with overtures after.
Actually lately you seem almost a little …. affectionate.”
You are addressing an anonymous internet entity who, as I best recall, has described herself as a scarf-wearer. And not the trendy scarves. I hate wading through the bullshit on this board looking for salient points. You have contributed many positive quotes to these threads, but I scroll past more than half of your comments de facto because of bullshit like this.
So what if you are a 40 something ex-alpha-wannabe-aspirant-notchtallier? Stop ‘flirting’ with EVERY SINGLE alleged female that posts here. Some bold nights, I try to open every set in the bar. You are going above and beyond, but within a very BETA context: that is, on an internet forum. Just STOP FEEDING THESE FUCKING TROLLS PLEASE. You make this page less desirable to refresh. THAT YOU ENCOURAGE AND INSPIRE THEIR REACTIONS IS OFFENSIVE TO ME. Of course there are others among your ilk – namely, James Joyce. But I am not mad at him because his stream of consciousness-style… actually, no further comment out of me (except three words, “FAZ fo’ LIFE!!!”).
Just… just stop, please. I’d rather read ‘MarkInArk’ grappling ‘Obsidian’ on matters of past presidential candidates.
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TROLL: Third degree Rapo game. See: Mike Tyson.
And I’m out!
You know, it’s not very alpha to take on a “the feminists are oppressing me” mentality.
Then again, it’s also very unalpha to run away. Back to the trailer park you go.
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I’ve had my ass beat more times than I’ve laid someone out. On the internet, that might be more impactful than Gregi claiming he has a small dick. I grew up in the burbs and I reside off the subway.
Feminists oppressed me just last week when I sent my check to Obama and filed to receive one from Bloomberg. Give to the black man, take from the Jewish man. Yes, all a part of my alpha bible.
I’ve always been more of a pirate than a ninja.
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@ Comment ‘I’m a Feminist’:
Mike Tyson has a brief cameo in the preview for some new goofy bromance movie I saw recently. He blasts a guy in the face for no reason and knocks him unconscious, and his friends look at each other and say, “Ahh, he’s still got it!!!!”
I think every romantic comedy should cast Mike Tyson as the wise fatherly-figure who gives its confused bachelor some sage advice about identifying the girl of your dreams.
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cosign cannon’s cannon – even though that cosign malarkey is annoying.
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Don’t get too frustrated, Canon. Just watch and learn. Doug is teaching an important lesson here, and he isn’t hiding it (like he is Bhetti’s pics — come out with those already!).
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Well, pirate, no need to qualify yourself.
However: It’s one thing to walk around knowing that the laws are stacked against you and succeeding anyway, and quite another to feel victimized and walk around with a defeated attitude.
Personally, I leave it to the feminists to come up with conspiracy theories about how the ‘system’ (aka “the man”) is a cock-farm of guys who all got together with the deliberate intention of keeping women’s interests down. I leave that sort of thinking to people with no accountability and blame others for their shitty lot in life.
Alternatively, if you believe there’s a smokey back room filled with bra burning wenches with mustaches and arm flab all intent on keeping the common man down, then you’re no better than they [feminists] are.
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Look, if ANYONE is closing ANYTHING off the internet boards, ESPECIALLY here, they could be doing so infinitely more often in real life. No disrespect, but I generally won’t be taking any lessons after 5pm unless Roissy decides to roast a chiclet… and tacit procedural lessons at that.
signed, sloppy sycophant
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Interesting, Tupac. If only it were as simple as he theorized. I think that females can only attain their true potential through years of training, which should start well before they begin intercourse with men.
However, one of my little virtuosos gained proficiency only six months or so after I obliterated her hymen. I really have no idea how she caught on so quickly, but it may have had something to do with the fact that her mother was a Manchurian whore (she was sired by a German physician). I discovered her in a logging town in the Pacific Northwest — her black hair, brown eyes and delicate frame stood out amongst the sturdy, fleshy, flaxen-haired type that dominated the area. Isn’t it a wonder where people end up?
One of the other masters of the “Grip” I encountered – in Badaling this time – was also at least half Manchurian. Perhaps it is an old Tungusic custom, passed down from mother to daughter. American women could only benefit from this ancient, shamanic knowledge.
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A Comment Ninja Walks Amongst the Somali Pirates:
“However: It’s one thing to walk around knowing that the laws are stacked against you and succeeding anyway, and quite another to feel victimized and walk around with a defeated attitude.”
It seems you have taken another blind stab at me, after the trailer park comment, regarding my background. I am late twenties, single, and foreseeably single.
I empathize with those less fortunate who share my mindset. However, with what sum of frustrated emotions could you possibly discredit me with that lends you any credence?
BTW, I’m in Manhattan tomorrow night… if you were too, and some cute boy starting chatting with you… what measures would you take to guarantee yourself that is wasn’t me? (hint: suggest the nickname “sluttooth whorehound,” most guys couldn’t fathom such creativity)
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But this is about more than closing. See how the women open up to a man they only know online because he strokes them where they like it? It really should open guys’ eyes to their true nature.
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I understand your undertone, Welmer. The opportunity cost is not worth having a snake chase its tail, all night long. Roissy doesn’t appeal to such building-block levels of game, anyway.
Also, what is the proportion of beauty that should be assigned to a female who rates herself anonymously online? There must be a sliding scale.
Perhaps something along the same lines as LILGRL saying her boyfriend (who is obviously “87”) is at one out of a thousand test levels.
Plenty of guys here indulged her on her blasphemy. I should pull a ‘Cor Fijneman’ and “disappear.”
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“It seems you have taken another blind stab at me, after the trailer park comment, regarding my background.”
It’s sad that this needs to be said, but many English speakers might jokingly refer to someone as living in a ‘trailer park’ not because they literally believe it, but because that person is behaving in a low-class manner. I hope that clears things up.
Arrrrrrrrr
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“But this is about more than closing”
and there is NOTHING more important than closing!
unless you are looking for an LTR…
… on the PUA message boards…
… please stop…
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“It’s sad that this needs to be said, but many English speakers might jokingly refer to someone as living in a ‘trailer park’ not because they literally believe it, but because that person is behaving in a low-class manner. I hope that clears things up.”
Those same people might seek to win a debate by appealing to emotions (read:women). A wise commenter named Expat once said he could tell the difference, withinin internet anonymity, between men and women based on how they appealed to their side of an argument. Men presented facts – women gathered emotional support.
You’ve insulted the lower class. You are prejudiced against the lower class. You are guilty of failing to propagate the lower class to your own level of success. Please immediately vote to raise your husband’s taxable income so that he may satiate your guilt.
When the Manifest Destiny expanded westward throughout the frontier, and the men on the homesteads didn’t gather enough food within 40 hours, they complained and lobbied Washington to send them free meat and crops every Friday afternoon at 5:15pm. At 9am the next Monday, the resumed to give entrepreneurship the “ol’ college try.”
At least, that’s how IIIIIIIIIIII remember it!!!!!
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Wow, am I really all those things? Jeez, sorry about that.
P.S. I said you could stop qualifying yourself, mister pirate.
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Only a woman could make me feel guilty about “winning the internet.”
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Heh. I get the same gut feeling you do. In fact, I can’t even begin to tell you how ironic this little charade is to me — that’s probably why I find it interesting to watch it play out in real time.
I’m not sure we can even put any value on it at all. Women love flirting online because it is all fantasy. She can be anything, and so can he.
Indulging women is the American way. This is what I’ve been saying all along. I refuse to do it, and here you see women like omw getting worked up to the point where they’re actually feeling hatred for me — mere online commenter that I am.
It’s really kind of hilarious. Reminds me of when this one girl would show up at my window while I was in bed and demand I let her in, then she’d kiss me, then pull away and hit me and tell me how much she hated me. After that, of course, she’d take off her pants and have me feed her pussy. I never quite understood what was going on there, and probably never will. I had another go so far as to burn me in effigy. She even put horns on my head in the picture she’d drawn. And this was a girl who had orgasms all the damn time! I thought I’d been doing her a favor.
You’ve just got to ask yourself: WTF?
And then get on with life.
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Welmer: And what “true” nature is that?
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Welmer:
You have no Game to teach, but you are not without utility. I realize now, more than ever, that I need to expand my repertoire of intoxication to include hard drugs, and not just the OTC mints either. These should expand the parameters of my creative writing.
They would probably even let me enjoy the latenight Roissy board comments, which were the source of my original lamentation… they are still mostly miserable.
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“It’s as if without the nourishment of a constant cliched drumbeat of “you go girl” in-group agitprop their fragile egos would pack up and leave them a shuddering mess of self-doubt and suicidal tendencies.”
None of the dudes from Suicidal Tendencis would put up wtih that shit.
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good job welmer at exposing omw
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[…] Mental Cancer Posted April 24, 2009 Filed under: uncategorized | Roissy was recently the victim of some worthless slut’s diatribe in defense of her lifestyle and attacking Roissy’s critique thereof. […]
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good job welmer at exposing omw
I only scrolled through last night’s tsunami of comments but what is there to “expose” about her? As far as I can tell she’s a cool Paleo chick who walks the walk.
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Dave says, “You see no relevance….but I tell you right now, I’ve personally seen close friends in my life who I’ve influenced by being upfront about the truths of our reality. Very real and important, life changing decisions that were made based on my advice…because I AM AWARE.”
Hmmm…are any of them over 45 and in the market for someone who will scare the piss out of their ex?
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I’ve been reading along OMW’s very provocative comments wrt the MRA movement, and I think she raises some important questions. Although Doug and Welmer in particular have addressed her comments to some extent, I’d just like to take a crack at the apple, if I may.
On its face, OMW is correct-the nascent MRA movement, *does* have the outward appearance of largely White, Male, potbellied, disaffected losers in life, embittered by divorce, enraged by having to pay alimony and/or child support, among other things, to that shrew of an ex wife. The more popular MRA sites, as Doug himself has freely admitted, does indeed smack of a kind of “loser” quality that, now that OMW brings it up bluntly, does come accross as a bit lower class. Whether the “class” issue or perception is the key reason as to why the MRA movement has yet to have a “big win” is an interesting question; but OMW’s point is made-in comparison to the Feminist Movement, the MRAs, at best, have a very long way to go.
Now, having said all that, let me also present the following:
One shining example of an organized, albeit smaller, MRA effort, is the Glenn Sacks website. I’ve been following it off and on for the past few years, and my hat goes off to the Man for his tireless advocacy work in just about every medium there is, and he has had some impact in the public square. But still, its almost akin to pissing in a gale force NOW wind, if one were to be brutally honest.
So, why *is* it so hard for Men to get themselves together? Is because, as OMW has boldly suggested, the raw IQ power simply ain’t there (and by implication in her remarks, is was/is there in the case of Feminists?)-or is it something else? Or, all of the above?
I honestly don’t know, and if anything, Glenn Sacks’ efforts would suggest that it may be a bit more than a matter of the best and brightest being involved. Personally, especially since were taking up this issue on Roissy’s forum, I think I have a few notions.
First off, we Gamers largely understand and accept the broad tenets of Evolutionary Psychology and Biology. They point us to what we consider deeply profound, and far reaching ramifications in terms of its insights. They explain *why* Men and Women act as they do, and that those actions, singularly and in groups, don’t always have complimentary purposes or goals. Indeed, EP has become the Bane of the Academy, precisely because of its less than “noble”, Blank Slate view of Human Behavior and motivations, particularly along gender lines…and *especially* when it comes to truly understanding Women.
Although I hadn’t considered the class angle OMW mentioned, I too have wondered, and even have posted aloud in several MRA venues, why they/we have such a hard time making headway: sure, the Matrix explainations are trotted out, but at some point a kind of cognitive dissonance sets in, I know it did for me-and as is true for any group, its hard to turn that mirror on oneself. It hurts. A lot. But if one is really serious about making real progress, it has to be done, and the first step on that long journey, is to ask the hard questions.
After giving it some thought in times gone by, and after revisiting it in the time since I’ve become a “regular” here at Roissy’s, I think I might have some answers. I invite any and all to give their feedback.
First, I think the major reason why the MRA movement has had so much trouble getting off the ground in any major way, is because those at the head of the movement not only do not understand Men, but they also are trying to use a model of engagement that is uniquely suited FOR WOMEN: the whole “raisng consciousness” thing Feminists were doing in the 60s and 70s-well, that works for them, because Women are inherently more group-oriented than are Men. In fact, a chief, major reason why Feminism as we’ve all known it has been such a huge success, is because of the fact that Women were able to play to their strengths-organizing their numbers, being among them.
Men on the other hand, are much more individualistically inclined, and as OMW rightly noted, its hard to convince a younger Man that he too can fall victim to a rigged divorce court/child support system. If one is going to make the case convincingly to such a young Man, or even an older one, it can’t be done in the “feminine” way that has become the winning model of Feminists. Won’t work.
But, as Dave From Hawaii has noted, what *can* work is INDIVIDUAL MENTORING. Males respond to and NEED MORE mentoring than do Females. Any parent of sons and daughters, or anyone who works with young girls and boys, and who’s brutally honest, will tell you this. Here again, I have to go back to the Jedi Way-they only allow a Master to take on ONE Padawan at a time-impossible to take on another at the same time. It is this intense “each one, teach one” model, that has shown itself to work best, when working with Males. Working in larger groups, tends to work better with Females. Think about it.
Even here wrt Game, we can see this: Mystery and Style worked closely together, Jedi and Padawan, as it were. Sure, Mystery did and does have many students, but Style stood out, and the rest as they say, is history.
So, I want to suggest, that the main reason why the MRAs aren’t making any real traction, is because they’re going about things all wrong. They’re not playing to a Male’s natural strengths.
OK, so how does that change the laws and public policy, you might ask? I think Roissy himself has already answered that one, and after thinking about the matter myself, I think he may be more right than any of us may realize.
Roissy’s position is that he intends to do absolutely NOTHING about the way things are going, even when he is perfectly clear on the state of things, how they got that way and what the longterm effects said Feminist-inspired policies will have on a mass scale. At first glance, his position appears incredibly nihilistic, at the least cynical-but perhaps Roissy just may be ahead of the curve.
Think about it-fewer Men are marrying already-child support arrears number in the hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars-and Men both here and in most industrialized countries, including Japan, aren’t choosing those workhorse hour jobs anymore. Little by little, guys are figuring out that they can’t get the same Social-Sexual Contract their dads had only a generation ago, that he can actually be penalized, heavily, for working hard and doing the right thing. They may not have all the knowledge of the divorce system like Doug, or be able to understand the importance of Game to a marriage like DFH, or be able to identify Glenn Sacks in a lineup, but they understand, like a “pre awakened” Neo, that *somethin aint right*.
In the Black community, Brothas are quick to tell ya, Sistas have all the cards-which might explain why so few of em want to walk down the aisle, or cough up much dough in the form of child support payments. The “official” view is that Black Men are just more triflin’ than the average guy-try thinking outside the box. Afterall, he can’t make a gal boink two, three or more baby daddies, no matter how triflin’ he may indeed be. And, note how girlfriend’s actions are rarely, if ever, mentioned, much less scorned. Sound familiar, my White brothers?
So, I think what Roissy is doing, is simply letting the massive edifice built in large part by Feminist thought, to cave in under its own weight, and by now, it is woefully apparent to all but the most truest believers. In a word, Feminism is Unsustainable-and in truth, MRAs really don’t have to do anything to hasten its demise or even try to change the course of things. In fact, Roissy’s oft-statedd recourse may indeed be the way to go-the MRAs may be better suited, doing nothing at all.
That doesn’t mean that MRA groups or even interested and inclined individuals, shouldn’t make use of the internet to put out information and the like-but they should cease and desist thinking that they can do what NOW did. Not only is the model flawed for Men, but also that there are a goodly number of Men who honestly think that “doing the right thing” by NOW type groups will get them a seat at the table. Let them have it. It won’t last much longer.
So-what does the average guy, reading a blog like this, do? Though you’d never ask.
Some years back, the US Army ran a series of ads: “An Army of One”. It focused on the individual soldier’s resolve, fortitidude and resourcefulness, which was borne of his training, which was instrumental in carrying the day. I was deeply moved by the campaign, and was sorry to see it go, because, in a post-Columbine, post-Sep 11 world, it become very clear to me, just how profound those ads were.
As we all know, Harris and Klebold’s grisly killings was hardly the result of a mass movement; it took less than 20 Men to knock America’s front teeth. Cho moved out on his own. Again and again, we see examples of major moves made either by lone actors (Lee Harvey Oswald comes to mind) or, small groups of Men (think “300”). More often than not, they made the difference.
Each and every Man has got to think of himself as a kind of Army of One in this regard-that he can educate himself by way of dedicated Men like DFH, and Doug, and Sacks, and yes even Roissy, and apply those insights to his own particular circumstance. This is what I’ve always done. No, its not as sexy and glamorous, and certainly won’t change any laws, like a NOW group does. But bit by little bit, it does make a difference.
When Men all but disappear from public life-as has all but happened in so much of Black America, and is starting to happen in earnest in Hispanic America-only then will Women begin to clamor *from within* for answers. Expect the usual suspects to be trotted out, but it’ll get harder and harder to work it this time around-Women have “won”. And when you’re Top Dog, you get both the praise, and the blame. Until now, Women enmasse have never really understood that.
So, in closing, I kinda agree with OMW, which in a way, falls in line with Roissy himself-theres no need to be bitter, my brothers. There is only the need to as Yogi Berra once said, take a look around, from which you’ll learn a lot, learn as much as you can, and apply when and where is needed.
And grab some popcorn for the impeding fireworks.
Enjoy the show!
Holla back
The Obsidian
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However: It’s one thing to walk around knowing that the laws are stacked against you and succeeding anyway, and quite another to feel victimized and walk around with a defeated attitude.
Personally, I leave it to the feminists to come up with conspiracy theories about how the ’system’ (aka “the man”) is a cock-farm of guys who all got together with the deliberate intention of keeping women’s interests down. I leave that sort of thinking to people with no accountability and blame others for their shitty lot in life.
Imagine a world filled with people who believe that the world is a zero-sum game.
How would the rich people in this world behave?
Clearly, someone else becoming rich means one of them must become not rich.
I would think it would be in their interest to make sure others don’t become rich, eh?
The zero-sum game mentality is very common in the real world.
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Obsidian
The “Army of One” thing you mentioned is interesting. In a group like the army each individual’s effort counts, but only as part of the whole. We cannot not really have an army of “ones” but we also cannot have an army of drones. Any solution will be a mixture of individual effort and teamwork.
For some of this we need the Alpha guys to join the team. One of the most Alpha things a man can do is to offer help to lesser men. A real Alpha can be sure of gaining the resources he needs (women, money, power) even with new “competition.” An Alpha man that helps beta men become better with women will likely not lose women to his beta proteges. He is the Alpha after all.
The problem is a lot of Alphas see those other men as losers and not worthy of attention. What they miss is that a better environment for the beta losers is probably also a better environment for him.
The army needs generals and the generals must lead. It is the job of a general to build up his troops. He also must train and encourage the next set of generals. So the real leader must train and assist those who may at some time take his place.
I don’t really have a solution. The above is just my (barely organized) thoughts.
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Obsidian:
Reasons men’s rights will never take off for the following reasons:
1. It is hard for men to play the victim card without looking weak and therefore loserish. Most men would rather just suffer in silence than admit their weakness.
(Similarly, most men will not complain about the fact that they have lost in the sexual revolution. You just can’t admit that, while your future wife was out shagging a couple alphas, you yourself could barely get laid. Again, by complaining, you admit you are a loser.)
2. There are all sorts of men who will chivalrously jump to a women’s defense. Men’s ability to form a pack and present a united front falls apart in the pursuit of pussy.
3. Alpha males run everything and there is a human tendency to Platonically lump everyone who is of the same category together. Alpha males are making out like bandits, hence “men” are the big winners in our society.
4. Most men are actually pretty happy being assraped by society. I’ve been reading James Kalb’s The Tyranny of Liberalism and from the survey data he presents there, it appears that men actually received a boost in happiness since the sexual revolution. It would appear that a lot of men really do prefer XBox 360 to sex. Or think they are doing better than they really are.
Nothing will happen to reform our truly corrupt Western societies until something goes seriously, overwhelmingly wrong. It’s going to get much worse before it gets better, if it ever does. In such circumstances, there really are only two options: huddle down in a small religious community (the Benedict option) or make hay while the sun shines (the Roissy option). In any case, submitting to the practices of the mainstream of society is a not a realistic option for the truly aware, and I can’t believe anyone does it.
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She should have been sterilized. The most painful part of it all is that her genes have been propogated.
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Thursday,
Good points, and I was thinking about your first about the “loser” self-admission piece as I was writing my own; but, as it was kinda long as it was, I figured to leave well enough alone, somebody would bring it up; I’m glad that you did.
As the old saying goes, its the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, and while in times gone by when the Social-Sexual Contract was still intact, taking a more stoic position made sense, it doesn’t any longer. The only one who loses in such an outdated modality, is the guy himself. He in all likelihood won’t even be missed.
Default’s points about Alpha Males kinda dovetails into yours, in that w/o the Betas, Alphas are really toast in the longrun-and smart Alphas, like Roissy, understand this, hence this blog. How many posts has he devoted for the exclusive benefit of Betas?
You see, I’ve never really gone in for the notion that Feminism levels the playing field for “all” or even “most” Women; in truth, it makes it possible for the most connected, or privileged Women, to “cash in”-and the rest of the Women kind of prop them up. And in truth, for all the barbs, slings, arrows and rocks the Patriarchy gets, such a system is the only one that really advances both Men AND Women, and gives Men particularly, a fair shot at “a” Woman-granted, the Alphas are 9 times out of 10 gonna get the best ones-but under more “Matriarchial” systems, Betas got no Women at all.
So, I hear what both of you are saying, and I don’t think either really conflicts w/the points I made; my post was attempting to deal with the *way* the current MRA movement presents itself etc, which I think, conflicts w/a male’s inherent way of doing things in the world.
Very interesting topic OMW broached, huh? 😉
O
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Obsidian:
Though, as Roger Devlin has demonstrated, the sexual revolution was female driven, the only people who unequivocally benefitted from it were
Alpha females didn’t really gain anything in the sexual revolution. In fact, they probably lost, as Alpha males, their natural long term mates, now have much, much less incentive to settle down with them. If they do manage to snag an Alpha, they are now much, much likelier to suffer the indignity of being cheated on. In short, these women would have gotten Alphas anyway, but now get them on much less favourable terms.
Lesser females don’t get much of a good deal either. When they attempt to date up, as many of them will, they will get to sleep with an Alpha. But, in the process, they are very likely to suffer the indignity of being a frequent pump and dump victim. Furthermore, having had sex with an Alpha means they will be much less satisfied with their eventual beta husband, should they actually get married. One could somewhat plausibly argue, like DA, that giving lesser females access to sex with Alphas was an overall benefit to these lesser women, but one could also argue that ultimately they tend to suffer a lot more heartbreak and indignity than their encounters with Alphas are worth.
Of course, Alpha males have been making out like bandits under the current dispensation, while the Betas have been given the royal shaft.
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Are more men having more sex now, or in the 50’s? I think since the sexual revolution more men have definitely getting more sex, from more women, than any other time in history. Sure, the Alphas have been getting a lot more, but the betas have been getting more sex too, if not the high quality girls the alphas can get. Those bottom-dweller guys who aren’t getting any sex at all, at any time, would not have gotten sex back in the 50’s either.
By the time a guy graduates from high school, he and the majority of his peers have lost their virginity. In the 50’s I’m sure that number would have been uch smaller. In most matriarchal societies (with birth control), the sex is more free flowing than partiarchal society, where only a few “big men” are allowed access to the women, and hard polygamy is the rule. Sure in a matriarchal society an alpha will get more poon than a beta. But that is always the case no matter what society. But a rising tide lifts all boats when the sex is allowed to flow, even a beta has more access to a greater variety of women than he would otherwise under any other system.
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Should read, “. . . the only people who unequivocally benefitted from it were Alpha males.”
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Anony,
I respectfully disagree.
Per evo psych, it is proven that actually Women favor polygamy more than do Men for the obivous reasons: Men understand that they stand a very good chance of winding up emptyhanded when the music stops, whereas Women, most of them anyway, would much rather share a wealthy Man than have a poor one all to herself.
Now, the devil’s in the details here-you mentioned the “hard” polygamy og Patriachal societies, such as Islamic ones or the Mormons. Fair enough. But, unless I miss my guess, since at least the time of Christ, most of the world’s societies weren’t hard polygamy based, and the taking of adulteresses, mistresses and the like, while certainly prevalent, was something that most if not virtually all Men frowned upon.
Now consider societies that have been for the most part Matriarchal based, such as pre-White Man Native American Indian, some African, and other socieites-“soft” polygamy-that is to say, there weren’t any codified laws that we in the post-Judeo-Christian West would recognize/understand-was the order of the day. Women happily aligned themselves w/whomever was Top Dog, or closest to it. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it was a paradise, Women have been shown to be deeply territorial, but the point again, is made, and borne out even in our time-Women, when you really come down to it, really don’t have *that* big a problem sharing a Man, provided he’s the right Man, provided errbody ain’t in her bidness about it, and provided said right Man does right by her and any kids they have.
O
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” But, unless I miss my guess, since at least the time of Christ, most of the world’s societies weren’t hard polygamy based, and the taking of adulteresses, mistresses and the like, while certainly prevalent, was something that most if not virtually all Men frowned upon. ”
On this blog, we are supposed to look at what people do, and not what they say. So if the taking of mistress, concubines, and the like was prevalent, then we have to say that men don’t have much more of a problem with polygamy than women do.
Judging by the posts here, men don’t have a problem “sharing” a woman, they just don’t want to permanently support a shared woman. With women traditionally, while they are some downsides to sharing a guy with lots of resources, they are outwieghed by the amount of support that he is giving you. There was some study od African polygamy that said the richest guy in the village tended to add a second wife when the rich guy was twice as rich as the poorest guy in the village. So yes, I think some women would rather suffer the indignity of being second wife in relative comfort, rather than starve and be first wife to some poor man. Women didn’t have much choice to do otherwise back then when these impulses were shaped in the human brain.
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Response:
http://yourerrantwife.blogspot.com/2009/04/return-of-slut.html
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Kimberly is a truly pathetic excuse for a wife. Like many women, she became unattracted to her nice guy husband because he was beta. Women get wet for alphas, but typically marry betas.
A study by the University of Michigan demonstrates this: http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html?Releases/2003/Oct03/r102203. What is says is that women vary in their attraction depending on the anticipated term of the relationship: for short term they prefer ‘cads’ (alphas) and for long term they prefer ‘dads” (betas). So most men are wet for alphas for short-term sex, but prefer betas for long term relationships — science confirming what men have known all along, despite the bullshit that generally comes out of female mouths about themselves.
When you add to this the fact that women have a 4-year detachment cycle (noted in Helen Fisher’s books and Michelle Langley’s excellent book on female cheating) and you get the result that women will tend to marry betas, and somewhere 4-7 years in will become unattracted to them and long to be fucked by an alpha again. This is one of the core reasons why marriage makes zero sense for men in the context of marriage laws that allow women to leave marriages at a whim, keep the kids and house, and get paid by their ex as they pursue alphas for dreamy sex.
What happened to Kimberly’s husband was probably this. Kimberly slutted around when she was younger (she admits this on her blog). When she decided to get married, she went beta, and married her husband. She popped out a few kids, and after a few years began to detach from her husband. Of course she had complaints about him, who doesn’t have complaints about a spouse? But in reality she was being prompted by her genes to seek an alpha for mating. And so she did.
But unlike most women, Kimberly is a slut. So instead of seeking another relationship (the traditional affair) with an alpha type, she instead decided to slut around, as this was what she was like before she was married. That’s all that’s happened here. And her husband has no self-respect at all — if he did, he would have tossed her to the curb when he learned she was slutting around, regardless of the financial costs of divorce to him.
==================
Polygamy definitely is favored by women. What happens in polygamy is that women trickle up the male dominance hierarchy — giving more of them access to the most desirable men for mates. As a result of that, more men are left empty-handed. It’s likely that marriage and monogamy were instituted as a means of making peace among the men, because having large numbers of sexually frustrated men is crap for social stability. But no doubt it had to be forced on women, because many women suffered from marital monogamy — that is, many women would prefer to be wife 2 or 3 to a high-status male than to be the sole wife of a low status male.
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novaseeker
That is why the old “barefoot and pregnant” thing worked. It kept the woman in her attachment cycle and thus in the marriage.
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“”””””””””””””””Default User
novaseeker
When you add to this the fact that women have a 4-year detachment cycle (noted in Helen Fisher’s books and Michelle Langley’s excellent book on female cheating) and you get the result that women will tend to marry betas, and somewhere 4-7 years in will become unattracted to them and long to be fucked by an alpha again.
That is why the old “barefoot and pregnant” thing worked. It kept the woman in her attachment cycle and thus in the marriage.””””””””””””””””
Good Call.
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Interesting response kim nice that you went against free speech in the end.
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Shows the beginning of your post was mostly bs.
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Of course she did. It’s what feminism and its PC enforcers always do: silence the debate.
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Well I don’t know about the barefoot and pregnant thing as much as the marriage laws being different. Women, if they strayed, could be divorced for fault, and get no alimony, and child support that was priced to the cost of the children, not the cost of maintaining the mother in her pre-divorce condition (which is what CS is now, a kind of ersatz alimony), if she even got the children at all. And she could not simply leave the marriage for no reason if she wanted to.
So the overall cultural differences were important, but I think the legal changes, together with the pill, were what pushed the whole system into a female-rigged one.
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Probably what she did to her husband when he was like wtf. She was like silence or you will never get to see your kids. I give her credit for having balls and him having none.
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I tired to be a little more tactful without all the insults, just to see if she’d at least debate the main point with any kind of intellectual honesty.
I wrote:
Errant Wife – why did Roissy’s initial post upset you to the point that you had to write a raging diatribe laden with insults and vulgarity?
The ENTIRE point of Roissy’s “How to Identify a Slut” is basically a warning for men contemplating getting married or involved with a woman in a LTR.
Think you could at least concede the notion that a man looking for a wife and mother of his children, and wants a monogamous relationship, would want to be able to avoid marrying the likes of you?
That is all Roissy is really advocating. If you re-read the initial post he made, he goes out of his way to state that he is not offering a judgment of morality of the “slut.” Only that a man who is contemplating getting married or involved in a LTR should definitely NOT do so with a woman that would not be satisfied with a monogamous relationship.
Are you upset that he is spreading knowledge so that men can learn to recognize YOUR type, so that other sluts will find it harder to find their own beta providers they can cuckold for themselves?
I’d be surprised if you actually post this, but thought I’d try anyhow…
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Think you could at least concede the notion that a man looking for a wife and mother of his children, and wants a monogamous relationship, would want to be able to avoid marrying the likes of you?
I guess the way I read her blog, she’s quite the feminist. So she sees herself as some kind of revolutionary, asserting control over her body by denying it to her husband while simultaneously offering it to other men. As I read her, she would advocate that more women be sluts — she’s kind of a slut feminist, I think. So her objection to Roissy’s post is that it encourages men to select out from sluts for LTRs — something which runs directly counter to her agenda for more women to behave like she does, precisely to wrest power over their bodies from men.
If you read through her posts, you’ll see a lot of nonsense about empowerment — empowerment through having sex with whatever man she wishes, regardless of her marital status. So that runs contrary to what Roissy is trying to do, which is to give men information to help them avoid women like her. If men avoid women like her, and she and her ilk succeed in making women sluttier in general, it will be harder for the sluts to find husbands, and that is the crux of the issue.
She also strikes me as a sex addict. But that’s another issue altogether.
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Since her entire blog seems to be an exercise in self-justification and backwards-rationalizations to make it sound like she’s doing nothing wrong, topped off with an overwhelming sense of entitlement, I’d say that’s a given.
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just as a sidenote: I’m not the same Kimberly who writes that blog..I didn’t realize the name coincidence, otherwise I would have probably changed my name when I posted the response link. I just figured Roissy & others would want to see it.
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Although Ms. Errant Wife is arrant scum, we can still learn from her, here.
She corroborates completely, and entirely unintentionally, the importance of getting ’em young. Even as incorrigible and hardheaded as she is, she would be forever putty in the hands of this first “love”.
Lesson:
The early bird gets the heart.
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Well done, Welmer.
—
To the women, I’d add a fourth:
Adore your man.
Bask in his glow.
When he takes you over his knee, or places you on your knees before him, look at him in a way that tells him,
There may have been boys before you, but no men.
Until you.
The Wave is great.
Hygiene is great.
Nothing, though, can match THAT LOOK, the one that combines adoration, submission, excitement, devotion, and trust.
—
To the men:
Be exceptional.
Be unforgettable.
Deserve that look.
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She corroborates completely, and entirely unintentionally, the importance of getting ‘em young. Even as incorrigible and hardheaded as she is, she would be forever putty in the hands of this first “love”.
There’s science behind that, too, actually.
It appears that the well-known bonding hormone oxytocin becomes progressively less effective at bonding women to their mates with each sexual partner they have, according to studies. So, for women at least, the more sex partners they have, the harder it is for them to bond to any one of them.
This is another case of science confirming what we already knew from observation: when women become sluts, they generally stay sluts. Science tells us that this is because being a slut in the first place lowers their bodies ability to chemically bond with one mate.
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A comment about oxytocin and these “studies”:
Dana Wilkie of Copley News Service tracked down Rebecca Turner, a psychology professor at San Francisco’s Alliant International University whose paper found its way into a treatise Keroack wrote for the Abstinence Clearinghouse.
According to Wilkie, Turner found that:
When women were asked to recall memories about close relationships, whether familial or romantic, those with a tendency to be anxious about such relationships had lower oxytocin increases than those who were married, living together or dating. Hardly surprising. If oxytocin is emotional superglue, it’s not shocking that women who are anxious about their relationships have low levels of oxytocin. However, Turner’s research did NOT delve into why those women had low levels of oxytocin. Perhaps low levels of oxytocin cause anxiety in relationships, which destroys relationships, which forces a woman into many relationships. We don’t know.
Turner was shocked and dismayed to find that her research was being misrepresented, she told Wilkie.
But here’s the kicker: No matter what the level of oxytocin in women who were anxious about close relationships, Turner’s paper found that oxytocin activity was “completely unrelated” to the number of previous sexual partners.
Understanding that finding doesn’t require a course in logic; a simple ability to read will do. Still, Keroack somehow made the leap that sex with multiple partners inhibits the brain’s ability to respond to oxytocin, and therefore the ability to bond.
Plus why would the the “slut” effect and inability to bond work differently in men and women?
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On some level, I gotta cosign Anon-I’ve never bought 100% the theory espoused by many here, that the more lovers a Woman has the harder it is to bond emotionally with a Man. I say if anything, if a Woman can’t or won’t bond with you, its because the Man in question hasn’t been able to forge a deep emotional bond, which for Women, is usually very important wrt sex.
Last week Brown Sugah came so hard that she burst into tears, her pussy spasming like a cerebral palsy person, juice flying everywhere. She’s coming back for another series of bonding sessions today.
I can’t wait…
O
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Plus why would the the “slut” effect and inability to bond work differently in men and women?
It may very well not work differently in men than in women, in fact.
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Nova,
What up, man? Just wanted to let you know that I’ve been checking out your blog, good stuff, especially your treatment of Gay Marriage and Daddy Testing. Excellent.
O
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Lesser females don’t get much of a good deal either. When they attempt to date up, as many of them will, they will get to sleep with an Alpha. But, in the process, they are very likely to suffer the indignity of being a frequent pump and dump victim. Furthermore, having had sex with an Alpha means they will be much less satisfied with their eventual beta husband, should they actually get married. One could somewhat plausibly argue, like DA, that giving lesser females access to sex with Alphas was an overall benefit to these lesser women, but one could also argue that ultimately they tend to suffer a lot more heartbreak and indignity than their encounters with Alphas are worth.
Of course, Alpha males have been making out like bandits under the current dispensation, while the Betas have been given the royal shaft.
This is accurate, in my view.
I do think, as anon says, that because there is more sex going on in general, betas do have slightly more sexual experience than they did before the sexual revolution, but it’s only slightly more. Why is that? It’s because similar mate value females are reaching up to sleep with the alphas, and sleeping with them, due to the relaxation of monogamy standards and so on. That decreases supply to the betas. So, on the one hand, the betas who find GFs are shagging them more than happened prior to the sexual revolution, there are fewer similar mate value females available for these betas, because a good number of them are stretching up to sex the alphas.
And I also agree that this creates problems later in marriages. Much of the discord in current marriages is sexual. People talk about household chores and nonsense like that but it’s really a smokescreen for sexual dissatisfaction in marriages, especially among the women. The underlying reason for this is that, as Thursday says, the experience many mid-mate-value women have with Alphas in their salad days undermines their ability to be sexually satisfied with a beta husband in their 30s. This leads to marital issues and divorces.
Now there’s nothing really to be done about that. You can’t put the clock back at this point. But I do think that when you look at the beneficiaries of the sexual revolution it’s, in decreasing order:
alpha males
alpha females
non-alpha females
beta males
Sure, alpha males are at the top no matter what system you have, but this system is by far the one that emphasizes their advantage to the largest degree.
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Thanks for reading my blog, and glad you like it!
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Nova,
I’m sorry, I’m just not buying the notion that Dave Alex, for example, simply couldn’t be a better lover. He can, and any Man can, if they want to. Its just that often, pride and/or ignorance gets in the way. Trust me when I tell you, Women know all too well that a good lay is hard to find.
I would highly recommend any Man so inclined to start out w/the Kama Sutra. Really good insight into human sexuality. Then get the Perfumed Garden. Excellent work.
After that, he should spend time reading Women’s erotica, they’ll tell you exactly what turns them on; even Errant Wife told you what the deal was. For many Women, you have to be DOMINANT since most Women are inherently Submissive. But, the trick is, you have to show yourself worthy of being served, first.
It takes a bit of work and a good bit of practice, but if a nerdy, short guy like Neil Strauss can do it, anyone can do it.
All that it takes, is the Will to do it.
O
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Oh no doubt, men can learn to be more attractive to women and better in bed as well. That’s clear enough. No argument there.
As for the will, heh, after having been married and divorced sor quite a few years now, I’m done with women. But that’s where MGTOWs and PUAs part their ways, I think. I think we diagnose the world the same way, but we have a really different approach as to how to deal with that — which is fine with me, to each his own and all that.
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I would highly recommend any Man so inclined to start out w/the Kama Sutra. Really good insight into human sexuality. Then get the Perfumed Garden. Excellent work.
As I told you before, no amount of sexual geekery can subsitute for the sheer Vaj moisturizing power of being an alpha and just whipping it out.
And every woman here knows it.
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Tupac,
No doubt being a natural has its advantages…and its decided disadvantages. Keep in mind, guys like Style and Mystery aint naturals and clock just as much, if not more, hi post poon as any natural.
O
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“”””””””””””””””””Tupac Chopra
I would highly recommend any Man so inclined to start out w/the Kama Sutra. Really good insight into human sexuality. Then get the Perfumed Garden. Excellent work.
As I told you before, no amount of sexual geekery can subsitute for the sheer Vaj moisturizing power of being an alpha and just whipping it out.
And every woman here knows it.”””””””””””””””””””””””
Yea tupoc when the operation comes out I prob will go straight up evil on bitches. lol
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Although I did take the save a hooker challenge. So far it has been the best thing I have ever done.
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My voice alone has Vaj moisturizing power for her. Life is ironic remember that.
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welmer April 22, 2009 at 10:32 pm
*gives welmer a hug*
Dude thanks so much for this comment. I’ve heard something like this before from a guy but you gave me so much more to study.
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Mike
Sleeping with a woman even though you regard her as despicable is desperate.
How is this related to anything I said?
How would they cheat if there weren’t men like you ready to have sex with them, and approve of their behavior? You’re part of the problem, period.
You may think alphaness is this or that, but there’s no common definition. Everyone has their own idea of what an alpha or a beta is.
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Of course, Alpha males have been making out like bandits under the current dispensation, while the Betas have been given the royal shaft.
As the original contrarian, I do see things a bit differently. Under the previous regime, beta males did get sex, but it was plain, boring vanilla sex with wives who weren’t particularly active participants. And for all intents and purposes, in the era before DNA and where secrets went to the grave, it was particularly easy for women to cheat on their husbands. As an example, one of my aunts is the product of a cheating wife, and nobody knew my great aunt admitted it years later. Hell, my aunt’s name is allegedly the name female form of the biological father’s name. As I’ve said before, it is far better for beta males to be free of supporting women who never really loved them and viewed them as ATMs.
As for lesser women, it probably works out better for them in the first place. To use the world of cars an example, beta males are like 10 year old cars and alpha males are like high end luxury cars, while female middle class employment is like public transportion. In the 1950s when female middle class employment was limited, women were forced into dating and marrying beta males for support. Thus, if there is no “public transport” and access to the luxury cars is limited, then the ample supply of ten year old cars is better than nothing. Of course, once there’s adequate public transportation, there’s less incentive to buy, maintain, and insure for an old unreliable car, and when you really need a car, you can always rent a luxury car. Thus, once women became able to secure middle class wages on their own, they stopped needed the beta male to avoid starvation, and the alpha male was always around to provide sex (and sperm) whenever necessary.
Furthermore, having had sex with an Alpha means they will be much less satisfied with their eventual beta husband, should they actually get married.
They were always unsatisfied. It’s just now that we’re noticing.
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Anonymous, and for good reason:
Yeah, really. Why would anyone suspect that men’s hormonal mechanisms differ from women’s?
—
Troll:
Horseshit.
Satisfaction is relative. Since the advent of mass media, the decline of religiosity, and mass migration to huge metroplexes, the bar of relative satisfaction has been raised to a formidable height.
It’s the same reason why you “need” a woman in acrylic nails and slut heels, a problem that you obviously wouldn’t have had in the ’50’s.
Think.
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the bar of relative satisfaction has been raised to a formidable height
Yeah, apparently, when you give people options, they magically become pickier. If the desire for alphas was not innate, then women would still flock to beta males without trouble.
It’s the same reason why you “need” a woman in acrylic nails and slut heels, a problem that you obviously wouldn’t have had in the ’50’s.
When you’re a teenage boy looking at girl’s hands and feet, and you’re doing so BEFORE being exposed to porn, I’d suspect it’s simply an innate part of one’s sexuality.
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Who said anything about porn, brazzer-man?
Porn is irrelevant to the point, which is that acrylic nails and slut heels weren’t around in the fifties. Back then, your “specialized tastes” probably wouldn’t have run beyond, say, red lipstick and back-seam stockings.
Your preferences are a direct result of modern, um, product differentiation.
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If the desire for alphas was not innate, then women would still flock to beta males without trouble.
There are historical reasons for this as well.
Prior to monogamous marriage, the rule was polygyny. Under that system, more women had access to the highest status men, because these men would have 2 or 3 wives. This matches what we would expect in terms of selection as well, because this system allowed women access both to the best genes and very good support for themselves and their children from these men. Of course as a result of this a good number of men went mateless.
It’s likely that monogamous marriage was instituted to keep peace among the men, as the gap between the highest and lowest status men shrank — monopolization of the women by the highest status men became, at some point, untenable. Almost certainly many women did not like the new system — many of them ended up with lower status husbands than they would have had under polygyny. That’s why female sexuality was so clamped down — laws, social mores, religious rules –> because many women were fundamentally unsatisfied with their lower status husbands and would be prone to stray from them unless there were hard rules about that.
So basically I think many women always hated monogamy, in the strict sense, because it relegated them sexually to men they did not want to mate with. Hence the prevalence cuckolding over history, despite all the rules against it. If we’re being honest with ourselves, it’s simply the case that most women want the top 10-20% of men as mates — not necessarily as life partners, but as sex mates for certain. They are wired to be attracted to them, because at the time that the wiring “set”, those were the criteria for getting the best genes. It’s arguable whether they are the best criteria today (it can be argued either way), but that’s academic, really, because the wiring isn’t going to change any time soon.
So, in effect, we are reverting to what Rob Wright calls “de facto polygyny”, since many of the mores around female sexuality have been removed. As has been noted in this thread, this is god for the alphas and most women. Whether it’s better for the betas is an open question. Whether it is a formula for long-term social stability is also an open question — and I have my sincere doubts about that. But again that is academic as well for most of us, because it’s rather unlikely any of these developments will change in a direction favoring more monogamy in our lifetimes.
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So basically I think many women always hated monogamy, in the strict sense, because it relegated them sexually to men they did not want to mate with.
Your analysis is sound overall but it makes a Whiskeyite error of overstating some factors and ignoring others.
A major thing you are overstating: women’s expectation of mating with and marrying an objective alpha. Because 99% of women had no expectations of marrying a prince/sultan. They aspired to get the top guy in their very narrowly defined locality and social class.
Major things you’re ignoring that mitigated women’s dissatisfaction with monogamy:
– No subordination or rivalry with other wives in a monogamous arrangement; no fear that her kids will be harmed by a jealous co-wife.
– The fact that within their own social class, most guys were “alpha enough” for the local eligible girls. Barring an occasional town drunk or genetic hard-luck case, there were no herbs or betas. All guys were more or less equally appealing on the basic level of sexual attraction
– Class segregation limited single girls’ exposure to higher-end men
– Extended family and community networks provided the material support that mitigated a poor guy’s lack of resources relative to a rich BIg Man’s resources.
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I think Nova makes some excellent points, no matter how “incomplete”, largely for two reasons in my view: one, because they dispell the notion that Women who somehow just brutally sexually repressed, when in truth there were very real concerns to impose limits on EVERYONE sexually; and two, because what he’s speaking dispells the notion, which I’ve always found absurd, that somehow sex, marriage and the like exist in a seperate universe away from other aspects of our lives. This is a particularly difficult American problem, perhaps stemming from our Puritan heritage coupled w/our notions of seperations btw public and private life. But the truth is, that they are closely allied with each other, and have profound impacts one to another.
That leads me to Dave Alex’s remarks, which work only if one considers the individual, like himself-HE may be obstensibly happier going the route he’s advocated, but it doesn’t work on a broader scale. Its unsustainable. We need Men to invest, and to do that, those Men need to know that they can have a real shot-not a promise, not a guarantee-of a wife. At least a girlfriend. History has shown us that when this hasn’t been the case, society as a whole suffers.
Women working to support themselves will not supplant this, Dave, nor will guys like yourself, because guys like yourself aren’t that far away from the very Women you claim are problematic for you-both of you won’t do the kinds of jobs a society needs.
As for Daddy Testing, as Nova’s pointed out so very well on his blog, it is very interesting to see feminist groups and the like fight mandatory testing, even a birth, tooth and nail, especially given how dads are treated to begin with. As w/so many things in life, “follow the money”, and that’s what it really comes down to-an irony when put against the notion that Women need Men like a fish needs a bicycle. If Women are truly so self-supporting, they wouldn’t need a Man for financial support in any event, so what’s the difference? And since we have effectively made fatherhood purely optional, who “serves” at the pleasure of the female, again, what does it matter if it turns out that the kid aint his biologically?
Yet another reason why you’ll never see Feminists engage in a real debate.
O
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A major thing you are overstating: women’s expectation of mating with and marrying an objective alpha. Because 99% of women had no expectations of marrying a prince/sultan. They aspired to get the top guy in their very narrowly defined locality and social class.
That’s true — my intention was as you state, not that all women wanted the sultan (well, they probably did, but that’s not a reasonable expectation), but wanted the best hypergamous mate they could get. I think that’s still the case today.
Major things you’re ignoring that mitigated women’s dissatisfaction with monogamy:
– No subordination or rivalry with other wives in a monogamous arrangement; no fear that her kids will be harmed by a jealous co-wife.
– The fact that within their own social class, most guys were “alpha enough” for the local eligible girls. Barring an occasional town drunk or genetic hard-luck case, there were no herbs or betas. All guys were more or less equally appealing on the basic level of sexual attraction
– Class segregation limited single girls’ exposure to higher-end men
– Extended family and community networks provided the material support that mitigated a poor guy’s lack of resources relative to a rich BIg Man’s resources.
These are all fair points.
My intent — which I didn’t state very well it seems — was simply to state that within the bounds of her reasonable achievability (locality, social class, ethnic background, what have you), women tended to be hypergamous in preference and they still do. Things have opened up more for them today, and of course there is also the reality that mates were largely selected for women historically by their families. So while I agree that some of what you mention mitigated discontent with monogamy, I still think many, many women still ended up with mates to whom they were simply not attracted. They “made do” with that, because there were many other benefits to being married for women, and cuckolding was, for most women, way too risky for most of history.
====================
That leads me to Dave Alex’s remarks, which work only if one considers the individual, like himself-HE may be obstensibly happier going the route he’s advocated, but it doesn’t work on a broader scale. Its unsustainable. We need Men to invest, and to do that, those Men need to know that they can have a real shot-not a promise, not a guarantee-of a wife. At least a girlfriend. History has shown us that when this hasn’t been the case, society as a whole suffers.
This is true, but I don’t really see how we get there from here.
Under the current system, I think most men can have a wife if they want and are realistic about what’s achievable. Most women do want to get married, and they can’t all marry the same men (at least not at once … 🙂 … not yet, that is.). So men can get married, but the marriages are unstable. It’s harder for a man to keep a wife given the current laws, and I don’t really think they will change much in the years ahead in a way that is man friendly.
One other blogger I know mentioned to me that he thinks that the norm of monogamy (rather than serial monogamy, which is the norm today, a kind of de facto serial polygyny) will be restored eventually, but it won’t be possible to restore it by means of a democratic process because women will never support its restoration.
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Good discussion, buy the way, everyone — Obsidian, PA and Dave Alex.
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Nova,
I think we won’t need to do a heck of a lot to bring about changes. We all see the edifice crumbling under its own weight as we speak. Guys like DA may be “happier”, and may even be willing to “foot the bill” to some extent in the form of higher taxes so that Women who birth Alpha babies can get the assistance they need to take care of them-but again, that’s only a small part of the problem. The other part is, more and more Men, like DA and otherwise, being more and more removed from virtually all aspects of life, from the personal/familial to the civic. Fewer Men will *want* to do the heavy lifting kinds of jobs that any society needs to survive.
What Feminists and those who basically side with them fail to see, is that Marriage, heck even a longterm thing, socializes Men and makes them useful to a society. Feminists have proven that despite all the sound and fury to the contrary, they’re not all that willing to fight the wars, do the plumbing, or build the houses we all need to be done in order to survive. Men are more willing to sacrifice themselves, their dreams and the like, if they have a Woman who has sworn sexual fidelity and exclusivity to him and him alone-when this is not the case, just look at what happens as a result. Even DA’s public policy prescriptions in this regard bears this out-he ain’t hardly willing to put himself out in any meaningful way for a Woman, or more to the point, a society of Women, in which he has no real legit stake.
O
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I fully agree, Obsidian.
Male investment in their children and, by extension, the larger society is civlization itself.
That is – this is what drives civilization forward. Feminism’s refusal to admit this is its own death warrant. Its narrow view of men as oppressor, not taking into account the reality that the entirety of civilization — which made the liberation of women possible — was balanced on the backs of men who were invested in the society because of the connection to their children. The feminist regime has emphasized female sexual freedom at the expense of the entire social engine … and as you say, we already see men withdrawing left and right from the broader civilization, precisely because they are not invested in it.
An unstable regime of marriage, where fidelity and investment in children (other than financial) and so on, are not ensured, is a recipe for social decline. I completely agree. From my perspective, it is only a question of time until this comes about and some kind of regime for marital stability is returned — I do not know whether it will be sooner, or later, but it will be.
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Nova,
Some may not like me saying this in light of recent conversations here, but I’ve always held the view that African Americans are the canary in the mine of White America-as we go, so does the rest of the nation.
At present, out of wedlock births in Black America is over-over-70%. The current rate in White America, is about 40% or so. And growing.
Something else-while handwringing goes on over teenage pregnancy, Gardisil and Plan B, the truth is, over the past decade, teenage pregnancy has gone way down-its pregancies among adult-aged Women, and I mean mid 20s on, where its gone up the most. Un-married Women.
Black America gives a compelling glimpse as to what to expect on a wide array of indices and areas of social and civic life. Men are all but non-existent there. Major inner cities are unable to sustain itself in terms of taxbases. And public schools have become de facto parents.
And we don’t even need to address the crime rate.
All of this is directly connected to the topics we’re discussing right now. And they will increasingly become the case in White America.
Until White America suffers to the same degree as Black America does in this regard, not much can be expected to be done, if at all. No, I don’t think its entirely due to racism, though its silly to deny that we are very much a racial nation. I just think its just as much a issue of self-interests, “that can’t happen to us” kind of thing.
As we can see, that idea is rapidly coming to an end.
O
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Feminism’s refusal to admit this is its own death warrant.
That’s what I haven’t gotten a handle on yet — what is feminism?
– just another piece of siege equipment in Marxism’s larger program of dismantling Western Civilization?
– sincerely what is says it is, ie, a (misguided) program of making women’s lives, and by extension, men’s better?
– an epic-scale shit-test?
– a childish tantrum of women liberated from feminine burdens by peaceful times and technology?
– a tool of alpha males in their efforts to get more poon?
– a lesbian supremacy/separatism political movement?
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Feminism’s refusal to admit this is its own death warrant.
PA
It is probably a mixture of Marxism, tantrum, and lesbians. With a little bit of sincerity thrown in.
I doubt Alpha males have anything to do with it, by definition they were, are, and will always get the poon they need.
Beta males may be part of it. Following along in a misguided attempt to get some attention. Why they would want the attention of lesbian harridans is another question. Desperation, I guess.
If it is an epic shit-test (LOL at the idea) then we, as men, have failed badly.
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Feminism’s refusal to admit this is its own death warrant.
PA
It is probably a mixture of Marxism, tantrum, and lesbians. With a little bit of sincerity thrown in.
I doubt Alpha males have anything to do with it, by definition they were, are, and will always get the poon they need.
Beta males may be part of it. Following along in a misguided attempt to get some attention. Why they would want the attention of lesbian harridans is another question. Desperation, I guess.
If it is an epic shit-test (LOL at the idea) then we, as men, have failed badly.
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one more:
– a hetero female-driven push for polygamy?
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DU – that’s basically my thoughts: a mix of everything.
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I doubt Alpha males have anything to do with it, by definition they were, are, and will always get the poon they need.
I wouldn’t dismiss this one so quickly. Alpha males aren’t just cool frat boys with sweet rides. They are also business elites who have an interest in uncoupling women from their husbands. Not directly to get into their pants (poon) but to acquire their (cheper) labor as employees.
In other words, it’s alpha males making women work for them and not for their hisbands at their homes.
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Some may not like me saying this in light of recent conversations here, but I’ve always held the view that African Americans are the canary in the mine of White America-as we go, so does the rest of the nation.
Again, I completely agree. I have long said that the problems that plague the black community in America — which whites both knowingly (slavery, racism) and unintentionally (great society, welfare, child support) created and exacerbated — are the canary in the coalmine for all of America. It’s a sneak preview of what happens when fatherhood more or less completely breaks down. I agree with you: we won’t see change until the situation in white america becomes equally untenable. And even then it will be a fight, because the upper middle class whites (which is the home base of feminism) will be the last to feel that impact.
That’s what I haven’t gotten a handle on yet — what is feminism?
– just another piece of siege equipment in Marxism’s larger program of dismantling Western Civilization?
– sincerely what is says it is, ie, a (misguided) program of making women’s lives, and by extension, men’s better?
– an epic-scale shit-test?
– a childish tantrum of women liberated from feminine burdens by peaceful times and technology?
– a tool of alpha males in their efforts to get more poon?
– a lesbian supremacy/separatism political movement?
To me, it’s all of that. It’s an incoherent mixture of things.
Some are good. Women are not property, and should never be treated as such. Women should have the same ability to access educational and job opportunities as men and so on.
Some are bad. Strict gender parity is a silly idea. Women predominate in some areas (nursing, psych, sociology, literature etc), whereas men do in others (STEM and so on). Strict gender parity hurts society by artificially excluding people who are good at things, simply because of their gender.
Others are insidious — Gramscian cultural Marxism, and its manifestation as PC — something which exists solely to silence debate about debatable issues — are all insidious, and intimately wrapped up in feminism.
But ultimately, men and women both need to get beyond feminism. Yes it was a tantrum and lesbian movement, but yes it allowed women to enter workplaces and schools and so on. But it’s also almost destroyed male/female relations. We need a new model. A new old model. And feminism, apparently, in all of its strains, will resist anything that goes against ideology — so productive-progressive views must be anti-feminist ones.
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And it could be a push for polygamy too — that would make sense, even if it is the soft polygamy we have now. Honestly the setup now is the most advantageous to women imaginable other than polyandry, which has never really existed to any significant degree.
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Nova,
I think what’s likely to happen, is as you’ve noted on your blog, that soon real challenges to Gay Marriage laws will come from the Polygamists, most notably the Mormons. Now, keep in mind, when it comes to straight up persecution, Gays aint got nothing on the Mormons, all the way up to last year’s fiasco out in Texas, in which Feminists had a hand in I might add.
I cannot wait for them to try to twist themselves into a pretzel attempting to deny them the right to marry.
O
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Lol, exactly. No real reason for that, other than ideology.
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he ain’t hardly willing to put himself out in any meaningful way for a Woman
While I’ve alluded to the fact that I’m unwilling to change to meet women, and I’m basically unwilling and lazy to even meet women now, this does not magically mean that I’m going to simply drop off society’s radar. I assure that lots of men will continue to work primarily to support themselves and to ensure a comfortable lifestyle. PlayStations, sporting goods, suits, porn, and vacations aren’t free, and quite frankly, I’d rather maintain Western Civilization to ensure that other men and I have a continued supply of these things for years to come. Plus, one must remember that we don’t just live in a vacuum. Many men have female cousins, nieces, sisters, aunts, mothers, and of course friends, and I just don’t see most men turning evil because of that.
Remember, there is more to our existence than sex.
Fewer Men will *want* to do the heavy lifting kinds of jobs that any society needs to survive.
They’ll do it because they’ll get paid big dollars to do it.
One other blogger I know mentioned to me that he thinks that the norm of monogamy will be restored eventually
Once you’ve learned that women prefer alphas, as man, do you think that you’ll ever really respect the choice of any woman if she decides to stay with you or will you perpetually wonder if she’s lusting for alpha cock. I’d argue that once males realize the truth, I’d suspect that we couldn’t restore monogamy because I don’t think men will want a forced relationship built on falsehoods. In other words, if she doesn’t love me, and she’s forced to stay with me, and the sex is lifeless, then the relationship is pointless.
being more and more removed from virtually all aspects of life, from the personal/familial to the civic
Oddly, on some days, I suspect that we’ll just move to blatantly sugar daddy style short to medium term relationships. Some beta with provider instincts will prop up a single mother with kids, they may live together, and she’ll probably offer some sex in exchange. All of this will be without the legal boundaries of marriage, so it basically lets the beta male or woman leave as they entered the relationship. I’d suspect that even I could get into such an arrangement at some point…
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Once you’ve learned that women prefer alphas, as man, do you think that you’ll ever really respect the choice of any woman if she decides to stay with you or will you perpetually wonder if she’s lusting for alpha cock. I’d argue that once males realize the truth, I’d suspect that we couldn’t restore monogamy because I don’t think men will want a forced relationship built on falsehoods. In other words, if she doesn’t love me, and she’s forced to stay with me, and the sex is lifeless, then the relationship is pointless.
But if that happens, men will not really invest in society. I think you are quite wrong when you say that having female relations suffices. Matrilocal societies that have been found have been characterized either by (1) male lackadaisical character or (2) male violence against other matrilocal tribes. And, notably, these tribes are *all* primitive.
There is no case to be made for a lack of male parental investment on a broad scale to be outcome neutral.
Monogamy needs restoration, together with men and women learning more about their genetically driven needs and wants, and how to satisfy or counter them in the context of a LTR/marriage. The idea you have that because women are wired to be attracted to the top alphas, relationships are therefore ipso facto bad for betas is like saying that because we are wired to love fats and sugars, we are incapable of training ourselves to a healthier diet. Yes, we need to know our drives … but we need to know them precisely so that we can overcome them.
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“”””””””””””””””””””””Fewer Men will *want* to do the heavy lifting kinds of jobs that any society needs to survive.
They’ll do it because they’ll get paid big dollars to do it.””””””””””””””””””””””””
Men don’t get paid shit extra for the extra massive responsibility they handle on a daily basis in the workforce. Supervisors responsible for personel problems, when their people fuck up, when the jobs fucked up, responsible to implement change, responsible to come up with solutions, responsible for getting the job done. They get paid slightly more than the bottom guy. Shits a joke men take on all that so they can give their families a little extra. Some enjoy the responsability but shit they ain’t getting paid for it.
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Nova makes my point exactly DA, and again, you’re not looking at the big picture-on a wider scale, what you’re speaking of simply aint sustainable.
Its hard to disentangle marital/sexual relations from the development of civilizations, Dave. They matter, and they have much more far reaching ramifications that we’re willing to openly admit.
Your notion that love alone, or even lust, is what makes or breaks a marriage/ltr, is a bit over stated. These are great for the very Alphas you mentioned, but booty when it comes to the longterm, at least in and of themselves.
O
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And, notably, these tribes are *all* primitive.
Admittedly, we’re going into what one could argue is a grand experiment since this is the first time that a high IQ society is engaging on what one could call a matrilocal society.
Monogamy needs restoration, together with men and women learning more about their genetically driven needs and wants, and how to satisfy or counter them in the context of a LTR/marriage.
The problem is that the needs and wants of each seem to be mutually exclusive to each other to the point where one could say that both are incompatible with each other. The problem that we’re stuck with is that there is no solution that leaves either sex mutually satisfied. One solution may give us happy males, but sexually frustrated females who give what will essentially be lackluster performances, while the other gives us sexually satisfied females, but angry beta and isolated beta males who may act out.
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Admittedly, we’re going into what one could argue is a grand experiment since this is the first time that a high IQ society is engaging on what one could call a matrilocal society.
I do not think it is very new. Yes, we are reverting to primitivism in our social relations. I do not think our “high IQ” will make a difference unless it finds a way to integrate fathers better — which is clearly not happening. What we are dealing with is not a function of high IQ, but rather a function of unleashing very powerful underlying biological drives, with no compensating factors. High IQ does not find a way to substitute for male parental investment — that is an issue on the species level.
The problem is that the needs and wants of each seem to be mutually exclusive to each other to the point where one could say that both are incompatible with each other. The problem that we’re stuck with is that there is no solution that leaves either sex mutually satisfied.
This is where compromise comes in.
Monogamous marriage was such a compromise. An imperfect one for both men and women (see Vilar). But a compromise that restricted men and women both for mutual benefit, and at a cost to each.
The current system is one sided in that it favors female sexual freedom and utopia at the expense of everything else: men, children, society. It cannot be sustained for a very long time, even in theory. Most feminists know this as well, which is why you see them writing articles about needing now to change men and so on. Women cannot exist apart from men and have society work well long term. The dialectic between men and women introduced by Gramscian Marxist ideas has run its course.
We need a new model, but one which is a new compromise. It will not be all in favor of women, or all in favor of men. But I do not think women will ever agree, democratically, to a compromise. Hence the premise of a collapse and an enforced new solution.
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DA — The problem that we’re stuck with is that there is no solution that leaves either sex mutually satisfied.
Novaseeker — This is where compromise comes in.
There is one more factor conducive to sustainable monogamy you guys haven’t mentioned: ageing.
A man’s sexual attractiveness peaks in his 30s, woman’s in her early 20s. Each has a limited window of opportunity to get what they want. When matched right, they have enough time to bond, fuck, make some kids, and cede teh fucking market to younger folks.
Outliers like insatiable sluts and superalpha males will keep doing their thing but they are an exceptioon to the norm.
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David Alexander, Gunslingergregi, Obsidian
David as Gunslinger has pointed out, some kind of commitment to society/family is a large part of what drives men to achievement.
As you have described, you can have a comfortable life on a modest income and with modest effort.
As Obsidian has pointed out, the trouble is if every man does that we at best become static. Except of course things never really stay static. Stuff breaks, times change. Your comfortable opt-out life depends on many people being fully engaged.
Geeky, nerdy men (the toolmakers of old) designed most of the stuff we love. The engineers that put men on the moon were not “cool.” They wore polyester shirts and pocket protectors. The “alpha” astronauts got the glory, but they were going nowhere without hundreds of “beta” engineers.
The Hoover Dam, the interstate road network, the rail network you love so much, the Internet, the telephone networks, the ATM that like magic spits out money anywhere in the world. None of this happens without men engaged in society. Engineering, computer science etc. are difficult to master. Even smart guys work hard to learn their craft. If all (even many) of those men opted out, we would be worse off.
Men almost always perform the tough and dangerous jobs. A man without a stake in society is less likely to go down a mine, climb pylons, drive big rigs across the country. A sense of adventure may keep some men there, but for most it is about bringing home the bacon.
Women are incapable of building or maintaining and advanced society on their own. The few Alphas can do little without the assistance of thousands of “betas.”
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kim —
Don’t worry Kim.
It never even occurred to me that you might be. Your voice and opinions are very different. You’re also 22 and she’s about 32.
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Whiskey, Nova, everyone–
There’s a lot of lose talk around her about polygamy, or as the feminists want to call it, polygyny. (They want to not call it polygamy to allow for polyandry, or one wife with multiple husbands, which occurs only extremely rarely, in variously 2 to 4 societies worldwide out of well over a thousand studied in one review, and then under very usual circumstances. E.g. severe male shortage due to a society specializing in mercenary warfare with very high male death rates. Note this usually doesn’t lead to polyandry.)
It’s true that historically most societies have been polygamous. That is they’ve allow polygamous (polygynous) marriages. However now and historically almost all polygamous societies have had only a very small percentage of polygamous marriages. Most marriages in polygamous societies are monogamous — one man married to one woman. Generally only 5 or 10% of marriages or less have been polygamous. So in most societies historically and now most men have had wives. It’s simply not true that historically only the top 15% of men (Roissy’s rough cut on the percentage of alphas of all sorts in the US today) have gotten wives. Not by a very long shot.
(Note this can be artificially distorted in societies in which polygamy is practiced by one religion or cult within a larger society. E.g. in the case of 19th century Mormonism, or splinter or cult Mormonism today, males not getting wives would often defect to the wider society where they could.)
Further in most societies which practice polygamy, it’s straight up the highest richest or sometimes otherwise highest status men (as opposed to the studliest) who have more than one wife. Almost all polygamous societies have had arranged marriages — at least outside West Africa, where I’d have to refresh my memory — and the arrangements gave multiple wives to the rich and powerful. I.e., historically there’s rarely been a case of polygamy by clear female choice. We can theorize or perhaps there’s evidence that women chosen for polygamous marriage to rich and powerful men preferred this to monogous marriage to poor ones, but it generally wasn’t their actual choice to make.
As well in hunter gatherer tribes which have been studied, which are the best (but imperfect) proxy we have for conditions before the agricultural revolution which began some 10,000 years ago in the Middle East and later spread or was independently discovered around most of the globe, polygamy while usually allowed is also rare. The tribal leader will often have more than one wife. Often not many or no one else will. So there too the betas have wives. Or the great majority do. (Up and comers are likely to get a wife sooner though, and maybe replace her with a younger and hotter one later while a beta gets his cast off, and so on.)
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default user Geeky, nerdy men (the toolmakers of old) designed most of the stuff we love. The engineers that put men on the moon were not “cool.” They wore polyester shirts and pocket protectors. The “alpha” astronauts got the glory, but they were going nowhere without hundreds of “beta” engineers.
The Hoover Dam, the interstate road network, the rail network you love so much, the Internet, the telephone networks, the ATM that like magic spits out money anywhere in the world. None of this happens without men engaged in society. Engineering, computer science etc. are difficult to master. Even smart guys work hard to learn their craft. If all (even many) of those men opted out, we would be worse off.
Agreed
I think the student loan debt that many incur to study such difficult subjects is shameful.
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There is one more factor conducive to sustainable monogamy you guys haven’t mentioned: ageing.
A man’s sexual attractiveness peaks in his 30s, woman’s in her early 20s. Each has a limited window of opportunity to get what they want. When matched right, they have enough time to bond, fuck, make some kids, and cede teh fucking market to younger folks.
Outliers like insatiable sluts and superalpha males will keep doing their thing but they are an exceptioon to the norm.
Except that isn’t happening.
People are marrying later, but still divorcing mid-40s or later. In fact the fact that people are marrying so late may contribute to the problem because of the overwhelmingly wonderful “free” sexual experiences they get before marriage.
Average marriage age is now 27 for women and 28 for men — so it’s not like most marriages are early 20s women with early 30s men. Its more like men and women in the late 20s, after women have sated themselves and are ready to marry. Of course there are many who marry younger, but for every 22 year female old who marries, there is a 32 year old female who marries. Also I believe, although I cannot find the stats at the moment, when you raise socioeconomic class, the average age for marriage for both men and women moves to around 30.
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Historically what not rich and not wider society high status alphas have been able to do is get more pre marital and extra marital sex, especially from girls from the lower social classes, and also sometimes seduce married women including of the same or even a higher social class. The later is more storied than actual, except in certain periods especially noted for their debauchery. In fact this is one of the main factors that makes a period considered debauched.
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dougjnn —
That is the case, true, but the fact remains that at least some men go without wives in a polygamous system. In our current de facto polygamy system, as Wright notes, the percentage of men who have never been married, while once equal, is now lopsided in favor of women. There is a trend, a trickle if you wish, towards polygamy in fact.
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dougjn Further in most societies which practice polygamy, it’s straight up the highest richest or sometimes otherwise highest status men (as opposed to the studliest) who have more than one wife
this sounds about right for Ethopia and what I know of West Africa.
dougjnn We can theorize or perhaps there’s evidence that women chosen for polygamous marriage to rich and powerful men preferred this to monogous marriage to poor ones, but it generally wasn’t their actual choice to make.
This sums up what I’ve heard from women who are in polygamous marriages, from those who have relative in such arrangements and what I’ve read . Love is often not apart of such arrangements. It’s about which man can take care of me and my *potential* children best. Donald Trump can/will be a better material provider(-/+emotional ) than Michael the mechanic or Charles the cashier.
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In fact the fact that people are marrying so late may contribute to the problem because of the overwhelmingly wonderful “free” sexual experiences they get before marriage.
I agree with your entire comment, and what you say about women marrying too late is likely a huge reason behind divorces. As would be the case if women married too young, to age-mate guys.
It seems to me the sweet spot for meetng a girl whom you will eventually marry is somewhere around when she is 22-23. Younger than that, and in of society full of choices, she’ll not know what she wants yet. Much older than that, and she’ll have slept with too many guys to bond with you.
And as far as guys go, in our society, they don’t mature and hit their stride until their early 30s, which is when they shoudl be meeting a girl of 22-23 to marry.
And as you point out, M32 – F22 weddings don’t happen very often in the US. Could that be a major part of the problem?
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In sum, what a monogamous society does differently from a polygamous one is to deny polygamy to the small percentage of the rich and powerful in the society that might otherwise get polygamy.
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chicnoir
The problem is those jobs probably don’t pay enough anymore to pay down the loans in a reasonable time.
All the engineers become “financial engineers” and instead of building stuff they create CDS, CMOs and other wondrous things. The problem is that while bridges tend not to fall down* these financial engineering marvels almost always end badly.
I am not sure the solution to the debt problem. More aid will probably not work, as previous increases in college aid have been met by rising tuition. We could limit aid to sci/tech/eng type courses. But I doubt that would be politically feasible.
*I know there was that big collapse a few years ago. That was more related to maintenance than design.
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And as you point out, M32 – F22 weddings don’t happen very often in the US. Could that be a major part of the problem?
Yes, I think it is, in fact.
In sum, what a monogamous society does differently from a polygamous one is to deny polygamy to the small percentage of the rich and powerful in the society that might otherwise get polygamy.
Perhaps. But the current system is not a replicate of early polygamy.
Instead we have a hybrid. Patriarchal marriage for men, and rotating polyandry for women. Women get the benefits of patriarchal marriage obligations from men, but the openness of a rotating polyandrist system for marriage. It’ literally the ideal system for women, sexually. But not for men or children.
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However, monogomous societies before 20th century America almost always allowed the rich and powerful versions of alphas (and actually also often the poorer versions of alphas) to have discrete affairs. (Times and places thought of as debauched allowed them to have open affairs, but then usually rich women who were more or less as rich as their husbands due to what they brought into the marriage from their family often could too. But only when the woman wasn’t being entirely or almost entirely supported by their husband.
The concept that male monogamy should be something other than an ideal, and something that was actually enforced by harsh sanctions against men, began for the first time in history so far as I know in America at the end of the 19th century.
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And as you point out, M32 – F22 weddings don’t happen very often in the US. Could that be a major part of the problem?
Yes, I think it is, in fact.
The only issue with this is, in fact, women change a crapton between early 20s and late 20s. The culture intervenes as well. I married my ex in her early 20s, and by her late 20s/30 she was a completely different person.
So I am not sure what the solution really is, to be honest. Too many expectations by men and women alike are the problem, but because marriage is so porous and temporary, post-marital cultural influence encouraging straying is a big issue regardless of age at marriage.
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default userThe problem is those jobs probably don’t pay enough anymore to pay down the loans in a reasonable time.
IIRC, I came across an article that mentioned those guys who work at best buy make are computer science grads making 10 bucks an hour.
I am not sure the solution to the debt problem. More aid will probably not work, as previous increases in college aid have been met by rising tuition. We could limit aid to sci/tech/eng type courses. But I doubt that would be politically feasible.
Maybe we could have a system where anyone in a hard science major who maintains a “B” GPA can go to school for free on a full ride. Another option would be to forgive the loans after five years if the person continues to work in his/her field.
I read something about guys who have *PHd’s* and Master degrees in hard Sciences working at home depot and not for extra money. They had been given pink slipes and new employers were hesitant to hire them because the large salaries they could demand as a result of their degrees and experience.
Funfact: I had a friend who was majoring in electrical engineering(+doing well) but changed his major for this very reason.
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PA —
I agree wholeheartedly.
Though if she becomes exclusive to you by 25 and you’re 7-13 years older, and she hasn’t’ been a very bad girl, or only a couple of times, then I think it can be pretty sweet too. A little riskier, and way less good for a real beta marrying a girl not close to virginal, but still good for men higher up the attractiveness to females (alpha/beta) scale.
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I have no idea why anyone would marry a woman in her late 20s or older, unless he himself is very significantly older or they both are 40-50 and just want calm companionship.
Of the aged-matched married couples I see, so many feature a wife who had turned into a domineering hen and the guy into a shadow of his former self.
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The concept that male monogamy should be something other than an ideal, and something that was actually enforced by harsh sanctions against men, began for the first time in history so far as I know in America at the end of the 19th century.
Oh but that’s just biology. A wife’s infidelity leads to a man investing in another man’s kids — i.e., genetic oblivion for his genes. A husband’s infidelity normally did not lead to a husband investing in another woman’s kids — after all the other man was cuckolded by him. So while male infidelity is a serious moral transgression, provided the man does not leave his wife it is not a genetic transgression the way a wife’s infidelity is.
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Or hey, for an older guy, a divorced but low numbers thirties woman can be damn sweet too, I can personally attest.
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Novaseeker Again, I completely agree. I have long said that the problems that plague the black community in America — which whites both knowingly (slavery, racism) and unintentionally (great society, welfare, child support) created and exacerbated — are the canary in the coalmine for all of America. It’s a sneak preview of what happens when fatherhood more or less completely breaks down
Agreed
When I was a little girl I thought the reason all of many of my male playmates took such a liking to my dad was because he was such a nice man. It was only later that I realized they were looking to him to be the dad that they didn’t have at home. One “friend” told me that he wanted my father to meet his mother so he could be his daddy too. The wrath of female jealousy from a 7/8 year old was unleashed on that poor soul.
I good sign to tell that it has spread is when you see ywm shooting one another for looking at each other the wrong way and placing way tooo much importance on material things they can use to show off.
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— and she hasn’t’ been a very bad girl, or only a couple of times,
Doug, no, not even a couple of times. It’s ok and normal if she had a couple of boyfriends in her earlier youth. But no pumps & dumps, and most importantly, she had never been in love or had her heart broken before she met you. One way to know is if she had done the breaking up in all of her puppylove relationships.
— A little riskier, and way less good for a real beta marrying a girl not close to virginal, but still good for men higher up the attractiveness to females (alpha/beta) scale.
Sorry, not sure what you mean here… but “beta” and “marrying” don’t belong in the same sentence. Even if you’re not the type that does well in discoes, you NEED TO BE an ALPHA in your marriage, ie, in her eyes. Basic, old fashioned masculinity, or what we now call LTR Game. Dave from Hawaii writes eloquently on this subject.
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Or hey, for an older guy, a divorced but low numbers thirties woman can be damn sweet too, I can personally attest.
Funny, when I was 23, I started despairing of soon becomng invisible to teenage girls. Now, teenage girls are liek aliens from Mars to me. At late 30s, I’m quite partial to sweet & sexy 27 year olds 🙂
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Feminist prescribed age matching is a very bad idea.
The male should be 5-15 years older, or at most in some cases 20 years older. If he’s any older than that relative to her he’s in danger of her interest becoming non sexual money and status mining pretty soon, even if it started with a strong sexual component.
When going beyond about 10 years older, the man’s got to have increasing doses of status and money as PART of his alphadom, in most cases, for it to work durably, seems to me. You always need a good portion of playful dominance though (which game mimics or enhances).
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chicnoir
Yup. This guy did work that formed the basis of Noble Prize winning research.
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081011/NEWS/810110328
He now drives a van for $10 per hour. But of course will still need more H-1Bs and foreign students because Americans are not smart enough.
Interesting, van driving is probably one of those jobs “that Americans will not do.”
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Feminist prescribed age matching is a very bad idea.
The male should be 5-15 years older,
In general I agree, but reaching into the early 20s for women runs the risk (materialized in my case) of really substantial, unforeseen change during the 20s. Sure we need adapt to change in our partners, but the magnitude of change that can take place in the 20s is huge, and can be daunting to overcome.
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reaching into the early 20s for women runs the risk (materialized in my case) of really substantial, unforeseen change during the 20s.
Doesn’t that contradict your opinion that M32-F22 pairing is likely to create successful marriages?
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OK, I missed your follow-up comment where you described your reservations about marryng an early 20s female.
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PA
[Missed this earlier]
While I believe much of economic-alpha support for feminism is because they are gutless. The days of a buccaneer corporate head are largely over. You get to be head of a large corporation by being a good politician and good bureaucrat (an alpha/dominant one no doubt but still a bureaucrat). It is the same reason most major corporations have bought into the “diversity” mantra.
However I am sure the extra labor supply is not absent from their thinking. After all they just love their H1Bs and “guest workers.”
Also, there probably is an element of disdain for the “beta” males that make up most of their employer rolls and supplier lists. They love ethnically cleansing their supplier rolls with “diverse spend.”
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PA–
Frankly I’m a bit offended that you think you need to preach that to me, even with respect to the message I’m giving to betas.
I agree that your prescription is safer, especially for betas. However what matters is what her reaction to it was. If she found it incredibly exciting, even if disappointing that the pumper then did dump her, then that’s a BIG PROBLEM in her for seeking monogamous marriage man. As in avoid. If she found it utterly depressing and soul diminishing, then object lesson(s) for her, and not really a problem — might even be a good thing — now she knows. Trouble is how can you tell? Well, I guess I’m pretty good at getting that kind of thing out of girls.
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“””””””””””””””””””””””””Default User
chicnoir
I read something about guys who have *PHd’s* and Master degrees in hard Sciences working at home depot and not for extra money.
Yup. This guy did work that formed the basis of Noble Prize winning research.
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081011/NEWS/810110328
He now drives a van for $10 per hour. But of course will still need more H-1Bs and foreign students because Americans are not smart enough.
Interesting, van driving is probably one of those jobs “that Americans will not do.”
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
That is why you need to save some money to move past shit like this happening to you. Yea one day your an engineer making decent money then age 49 hits and you are permanently laid off. Then the stock market crashes. Got to establish a base income.
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Because then the guy that retired from the army at 38 is making more than you and he is retired.
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OK, I missed your follow-up comment where you described your reservations about marryng an early 20s female.
Yeah there’s no silver bullet. In my own personal experience that life change thing was hard to assimilate. I don’t know whether it is harder, though, than marrying a woman around 30 who has a high sexual odometer — cause I have never done that.
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default user Yup. This guy did work that formed the basis of Noble Prize winning research.
prashner’s former colleagues esp the guys who he shared the gene with, should help him with a job. I’m sure they know someone who knows someone.
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chicnoir
In hunter gather societies, it’s not generally the females who chose the males they will mate with. They never will (or almost never) if they’re obtained by raiding another band in a war skirmish, which is standard operating procedure among hunter gather bands.
There is probably more female choice in e.g. America as to who they mate with than there has been in the last 100,000 years, at least.
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Chic–
There’s probably something seriously wrong with him. Men usually do help their impressive colleagues in that way, if they’ve had hard times.
Maybe they should anyway though. Depends.
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In hunter gather societies, it’s not generally the females who chose the males they will mate with. They never will (or almost never) if they’re obtained by raiding another band in a war skirmish, which is standard operating procedure among hunter gather bands.
There is probably more female choice in e.g. America as to who they mate with than there has been in the last 100,000 years, at least.
Not really relevant. It’s still the case that women are attracted to the dominant males. That could be because of a long history of marauding and giving in to marauding males. It could be due to a history of males around them seeking hypergamous mates for them. But the fact remains that today there are certain males to whom females are innately attracted, all quibbling aside.
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Frankly I’m a bit offended that you think you need to preach that to me
Aww, don’t be offended. I know you know the deal. When commenting, I also keep other readers in mind.
Yeah there’s no silver bullet. In my own personal experience that life change thing was hard to assimilate.
I wonder what changes you’re talking. Don’t mean to pry, unless this is exactly the kind of thing you discuss online: did you get complacent in your marriage and it affected the way she sees you?
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Monogamous marriage was such a compromise. An imperfect one for both men and women (see Vilar).
The problem is that it’s so imperfect, one could argue that it’s worthless. If men are aware of the true nature of women, I suspect that would be unwilling to engage in long-term relationships. In other words, why bother if she’ll always desire the alpha and harbour resentment toward you for being inferior to him.
If all (even many) of those men opted out, we would be worse off.
But without wasting time on chasing women who don’t want them, these men are free to explore their interest and hobbies and dedicate themselves to their work. You don’t achieve to win women. You achieve to make money, feel proud about yourself, and boast about your superior over the other men who can’t do shit for themselves.
A sense of adventure may keep some men there, but for most it is about bringing home the bacon.
Except he no longer has to do it for a wife that doesn’t desire him. Instead, he can do it so he can live comfortably in a nice home or drive a nice car.
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David, have you pictured yourself meeting a girl you clicked with amazingly on the personality level? She would also attractive enough to arouse you when she looked at you naughtily, and the thought of kissing her makes your heart race. Also, you’d find yourself motivated to be more alpha… in fact, you’d find it just flowing out of you.
With a chick like that, if you think the compatibility is sustainable, you feel like letting her go would be a real loss, and this is when thought of marriage enter men’s minds.
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Monogamous marriage was such a compromise. An imperfect one for both men and women (see Vilar).
The problem is that it’s so imperfect, one could argue that it’s worthless. If men are aware of the true nature of women, I suspect that would be unwilling to engage in long-term relationships. In other words, why bother if she’ll always desire the alpha and harbour resentment toward you for being inferior to him.
If all (even many) of those men opted out, we would be worse off.
But without wasting time on chasing women who don’t want them, these men are free to explore their interest and hobbies and dedicate themselves to their work. You don’t achieve to win women. You achieve to make money, feel proud about yourself, and boast about your superior over the other men who can’t do shit for themselves.
A sense of adventure may keep some men there, but for most it is about bringing home the bacon.
Except he no longer has to do it for a wife that doesn’t desire him. Instead, he can do it so he can live comfortably in a nice home or drive a nice car.
Here is where I come out on this.
There is a distinction between (1) ultimate solutions and (2) current solutions.
To me the ultimate solution is restoration of monogamy as a *hard* norm. But that is not politically or socially feasible in the short to medium term. In fact, we may be better off just watching the motherfucker burn at this point. Women will not vote to restrict their ability to cuckold and so on.
So the current solution — up to individual men. You can be an activist, although that’s an uphill battle, given lack of male support. You can be a PUA, which gets you laid, but perpetuates the status quo. You can be an MGTOW, which takes you out of the system altogether. I think, honestly, that PUAs and MGTOWs, taken together, can take enough men out of the system to make it untenable. That will take some time … probably a generation or two … but it can happen.
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I wonder what changes you’re talking. Don’t mean to pry, unless this is exactly the kind of thing you discuss online: did you get complacent in your marriage and it affected the way she sees you?
Not exactly, but lifestyle, life goals and such changed from when she was 24 to when she was 31. Which is normal. But I would not have married the woman if I met her at 31 with her goals then. That’s what I mean.
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Feminist prescribed age matching is a very bad idea.
As I’ve stated, my feminist female friends have all dated men in that 5 to 15 year age range, and at varying points they’ve stated that it was okay for me to go date younger women. I’d argue it’s beta males who want companionship marriages who want age matching for relationships.
But no pumps & dumps
In other words, you want an ugly girl that nobody else wants?
you NEED TO BE an ALPHA in your marriage, ie, in her eyes
That’s the problem. Some of us like being betas.
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In other words, you want an ugly girl that nobody else wants?
Takes two to pump. You get her young enough and raised right, there will be no pumps and dumps in her past.
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That’s the problem. Some of us like being betas
Do you feel like the Roissy’s comic play starring you and Sara was insightful about your psyche?
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David, have you pictured yourself meeting a girl you clicked with amazingly on the personality level?
Nope. Never.
Also, you’d find yourself motivated to be more alpha… in fact, you’d find it just flowing out of you.
Admittedly, you may have a point here. How I treat a prospective girl that I’m sexually aroused with may be different from how I’d view platonic hug buddy. To a certain extent, I acted different when I was having sex with the older woman, but I was under some degree of alcohol…
Takes two to pump. You get her young enough and raised right, there will be no pumps and dumps in her past.
They have pump and dumps at high school and community college, so it might be too late. 🙂
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Nope. Never.
Awww come on. Not even in dreams in which you talk with this awesome girl who just totally gets you and then you wake up disappointed to see the morning light?
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Not even in dreams
Oddly no. I day dream about being with somebody (who looks like one of my porn stars) and having kids, but it has never come to the point where the girl wants me and finds me attractive. It just sorta happens.
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Chic said:
prashner’s former colleagues esp the guys who he shared the gene with, should help him with a job. I’m sure they know someone who knows someone.
dougjnn said:
There’s probably something seriously wrong with him. Men usually do help their impressive colleagues in that way, if they’ve had hard times.
Maybe they should anyway though. Depends.
Yes, I agree. See, it’s not like Prashner was a bottom-tier boss. Those guys being difficult is just expected. Something you gotta deal with to make your way in the world.
Sure, Prashner did almost Nobel-Prize winning level research, but did he have whip-hand? NO.
From this, I conclude that doing nearly Nobel-Prize winning level research is less valued than being a store manager for the local Costco.
People thinking about being engineers(in America) should take that into consideration.
Maybe you could make Store Manager for some store in your town. It’d be a better job…. unless maybe you win a Nobel-Prize. Do you think you can win a Noble Prize? Then maybe you should go for that manager job.
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chicnoir
You are right. <blockquote> is evil.
I just noticed that my comment at 6:48pm featured a(nother) mangled you-know-what.
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Comment_Value
And that is our problem. That is why power is moving eastwards and away from the USA.
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And eastward that guy could still get a nice woman. That is why it will change.
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Gunslingergregi
A good point. Maybe I should just move with the power… where the action is…
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“””””””””””””””Comment
People thinking about being engineers(in America) should take that into consideration.
Maybe you could make Store Manager for some store in your town. It’d be a better job…. unless maybe you win a Nobel-Prize. Do you think you can win a Noble Prize? Then maybe you should go for that manager job.”””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Status it comes and goes. I was in grade school got picked on. Always new kid. Grew up a little. Then starting getting the ladies. Lasted through high school. End of high school parents had divorce. Saw my dad get treated like a piece of shit backed by police. Saw my dad work through that shit. Got a job bought a house got custody sister. That shit fucked me up. Definetly did not give a fuck at that time which is a pretty good feeling to an extent not caring if you live or die (hoping you die). Then joined army in shape again had 5 girlfriends at one time at one point. Little out of control again. Found woman really loved got married. Stayed a non cheater till seperation. Went through period after that hard to get ladies. Now woman tend to throw themselves at me because of my thoughts on life. When I go home and make 14400 a month I will be snapping my fingers and they will say how high. Doesn’t come to that I already have a woman now that I met at a betaesque low point and she loves me. Now that I will be going through my alpha status stage again. I will be doing it with her. Life is like that. Ups and downs. Probably sucks if it is mostly down.
YOU REALLY CAN BUY STATUS THOUGH.
Ya just have to work a lot more than the other guy and do not create bills or keep bills to absolute lowest possible. This also goes to quality of life. Think about how much spending money you have. Every dime I make is spending money. I have no bills. So even if I was able to make 2000 a month it would all be spending money. Lets say you make 9 k per month as a couple but your bills are 7k. You would have the same spending money as me even though I only make 2000. We would have the same lifestyle except you may have a big house and expensive cars. Now lets say that we both make 9000 a month but your bills are 7000 still and you still have 2000 in spending money. While I still have 9000 in spending money. Well I can spend the 2000 but I have the opportunity to save 5000 a month. So instead of using it to pay bills I use it to accumulate chunks of cash. Take those chunks of cash and buy things that make money. Then all the sudden after a certain amount of time at this you are making 18000 a month and you still have no bills. You can then chill the fuck out 9k of spending money and plenty of time to find woman.
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Do it like the above default and just travel the world. Bound to find one thats perfect for you. When I finish my challenge I will let you know step by step how to do it. Even give ya the excel sheet really just line up dates and track loot and don’t gamble on shit that sets you back.
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And don’t get mad at me if the first 100 is anticlimactic lol and your thinking to yourself it can’t be this easy.
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PA —
I don’t have the cite, but I’ve seen somewhere stats saying that 80% of all women who ever lived reproduced, and only 40% of all men. Certainly Ghengis Khan’s progeny are about 14% of all males in Mongolia. To work that back, direct male descent, meant a prodigious amount of women. And knowing the nature of Big Men, they do not like to share their women. Particularly as they get bigger and bigger.
Agricultural society, around 11,000 years ago, would be the start of polygamy, where enough spare resources could be found to support harems and the problem of guards for the harems. Hunter-gatherers could always just stick a spear in someone and walk away. But it’s quite possible for most women in an area of Big Men to be the fairly exclusive reproductive property of the Big Men in Agricultural or Nomadic Systems. Certainly the DNA analysis of Khan’s male descendants and that of male/female reproductive asymmetry suggests that the cycle of civilizational collapse is related to not enough men being invested in the system through reproductive access and thus not fighting for the civilization or seeking to undermine it. That’s the opposite of Gibson’s Apocalypto, but there you go.
Feminism is women’s desire to screw as many Bad Boy Alpha Males as possible and persuade Beta Males to be happy about it. That’s pretty much it.
Obsidian — the Puritans were hardly anti-Sex. That’s a degraded popular view of the actual reality: the Puritans in fact EMBRACED sex. Only just in marriage. They viewed it as a pleasure and duty. They were also great lovers of food and drink. They didn’t like Christmas too much thinking it both Catholic and Pagan, and a few other things that I’m sure made perfect sense in the 1600’s. Unlike the view of them today, the actual Puritans wore lots of colorful clothes.
Nova — great point. Investment by men does not come from wanting to be a “pal” of women no matter what their fantasy is.
Obsidian — “African Americans are the canary in the mine of White America-as we go, so does the rest of the nation.”
EXACTLY!
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Whiskey I think nova was onto something though on his site. Like I realized I wanted to stay fat therefore to do that and get american woman I have to have a few extra trinkets (like even just a nice car would have gotten me quite a few decent looking younger woman when I was hitting the club). I was able to pick up woman that I wasn’t attracted too but not the ones I wanted. So I did plan on just saving loot to achieve that. Therefore not having access to american woman did cause me to want to achieve to gain access. It just kind of backfires when you realize that there are more woman looking for men with trinkets than men with trinkets all over the world and not just in us.
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2nd should be men without trinkets he he he Of course yea I did realize I could have got in shape and got woman. I just didn’t want to.
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Then you discover work game and it doesn’t matter what you look like if woman like your brain and the way you think.
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“”””””””””””””””””””” Kimberly said…
I know exactly what you mean with this one and I have been thinking about it lately. I think for some of us, I think for me, that things got so bad – that I felt so ignored – that I really felt in a way that he wasn’t entitled to my fidelity because he refused to hold up his end of what I saw as the marriage deal. But, yeah, deluded self justification on my part perhaps…
April 26, 2009 1:30 AM””””””””””””””””””””””
Little bit of self introspection going on from errant wife. Interesting turn of events . When in the same column some other chick was bragging on going on 3 years and no guilt for her hidden infidelities.
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Might be mandatory reading to see the inside of the female mind. Good God it is some creepy shit.
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Well I think that whole site is a service to the male community. I for one appreciate it. Now when a woman tells her man it was just an accident we can look there and see the premeditation. The ruthlessness and non shame that is woman hear me roar. No wonder an alphas biggest fear is a woman cheating on him because it was so easy to fuck over so many other guys because the woman are such easy accomplaces in the act. Plus they seem to be so great at hiding it. The great thing about computers is that we can now have the husbands check their wives computers for evidence. The proof will be in the comp isn’t that a beautiful thing. You can now chck your wifes computer for any signs of infidelity. Hell she probably blogs about it. There was dna for cuckholding now you can check cookies for cheating. Plus the cellphone for location. Man once all “crime” gets solved this world really will be different.
That is how I found the proof on my first wife. She never ever to this day admits to cheating on me. Crazy right. Yet the evidence was in her computer icq. Just had to open the file in the icq folder and the words where there along with code sentance code sentance code. Even with that she denied it.
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I actually think that having sites like Kimberly’s blog help people like Roissy and the rest of us here make our case to men about marriage and why it’s such a huge risk for men.
If you look at the situation Kimberly’s cuckold is in, it isn’t pretty. They’ve been married over 10 years, she has been the primary caregiver for the kids and has not earned money (probably was a stay at home mom for much of it). In those circumstances, divorcing Kimberly would be extremely expensive — leaving aside the assets (and as primary caregiver of three kids, she would normally get the house regardless of how the rest are distributed), he would have to pay alimony/spousal support at a significant level (in some states for life, once you get past 10 years) and his c/s payments would be very high, too (c/s normally is calculated by taking the family’s total gross income, getting a total support amount based on that, and dividing it between the parents based on their % of total income … so if the guy has almost all of the inome, he pays almost all of the c/s).
So in reality, having a stay at home/caregiver wife placed Kimberly’s husband in a very vulnerable situation, particularly as the marriage wore on. Once she got to the ten year mark, she probably realized that the cards were all on her side of the table to a tremendous degree. There really was no risk relating to her infidelity. What could her husband do? Anything he did about it would cost him terribly financially and result in a huge wealth transfer to Kimberly and a substantial devaluation in his lifestyle.
So I expect Kimberly’s cuckold is doing what he is doing (basically condoning his cuckolding and backing into agreeing to an open marriage for his wife) because the alternative would be financial disaster. It’s easy for me to sit here and say he should get some self-respect, because my divorce, while expensive, was nothing like what would happen to him — because my ex earns as much as I do, and we were not married for as long. But for this poor guy, she has him by the balls, even if she makes sure his balls are blue.
So as I say, sites like Kimberly’s help us in making our case against marriage for men. It’s very easy to end up like Kimberly’s cuckold here, given how the law works. Sure, most women are not as slutty as Kimberly is, but even less extreme versions of it (the affair version, rather the married slut/”hotwife” version) are ruinous for men from the perspective self-respect and self-esteem, and trap men between a choice of leaving to vindicate their self-esteem at the cost of financial ruin or staying and having every last ounce of self respect gradually bleed out of them while preserving their lifestyle financially.
Of course, the catch is that even if he does consent to an open marriage/”hotwife” scenario (which is how I read her comments on that), Kimberly remains free to cash out at any time. All he can do is try to keep the balance in such a way that for various factors (perhaps social or other factors, or just the satisfaction she gets from cuckolding him, which could be more exciting than living on her own and behaving as she does) she opts not to divorce him and cash out. But the risk is always there. She owns him now, pretty much.
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A look at her blogroll shows she has plenty of company.
[ http://www.blogger.com/profile/01176810162712078204 ]
There also appears to be one male slut. From Kimberley’ old blog?
[ http://ashleyandme.blogspot.com/ ]
While I believe that most of these (including The Errant Wife) are performance art, or at least heavily dosed with fantasy, the reaction of the commenters is interesting. They female comments tend to be supportive of both the female and the male slut.
I realize that these are probably small group of fantasy lovers circle jerking each other but it interesting all the same.
There appears to be very little female condemnation of cheating females or male(s).
And yes, I know we (and I) are giving her far too much attention.
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Novaseeker – that’s a dire scenario, not to be taken lightly.
Question before young men today is whether the only smart thing to do is to go on a Marriage Strike, or to still marry but do a better job of:
1) Selecting one’s bride much more carefully in terms of her age, character, history, family, cultural background, and
2) mastering LTR game.
With regards to (1) I have a feeling too many guys marry the best lay they meet, who cares about her character. Duh! marry a mean bitch, you’ll have a mean bitch for a wife!
As far as (2) it’s clear: with the cultural and legal system as your adversary, you can’t afford to go soft.
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PA,
There’s a “third” option which Roissy himself has spoken to, which avoid marriage but still maintain a relationship, and if current marital rates among Black Men are any indication, this is exactly what is happening. Could it be because these Brothas know what Nova knows? Or could be due to something else? I honestly do not know. But the numbers don’t lie-over 70% of all Black kids are born out of wedlock; and marital rates in Black America by US Congressional district barely reach 40%.
The assumptions made are usually such that they are presented from only the Woman’s side; but it seems that no one’s all that interested in why so Black Men have disappeared from the chapel.
Nova and I have agreed that Black folk are the canary in the mine. Could this be the case wrt to Marriage too?
O
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Obsidian, yeah, I include avoiding marriage but still maintaining a relationship under Marriage Strike.
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DU — I also think there’s a good chance that Kimberly’s blog is mostly fictional — a woman seeking drama online. I can imagine that much of what is on her blog and the linked ones is more fiction than fact, but it’s hard to tell. A lot of what does pop into her blog has the ring of authenticity to it — but again, it’s hard to tell. It’s also true to note that the females were not condemning male cheating –> I think the whole idea is more sexual liberation for everyone. But as we know, that tends favor women more than men, so perhaps it’s not surprising. One of the commenters on her blog was honest enough to admit that people (men and women alike) are as loyal as their opportunities encourage them to be. At least that was being honest.
PA — I think that marrying is really risky, even if you pick and choose well and have LTR game. It’s still a big risk.
O — I think that’s basically right. In effect, what we see in the black community is that men are avoiding marriage. I think this is slowly spreading outside the black community, as well, and I think we will continue to see that trend in all parts of our society in the years ahead. The question will be: what will women do about it once it gets to the level of crisis in the society generally that the black community is experiencing today? My guess? I think we’re going to see efforts from the women’s groups to clamp down on non-marital relationships and make them like marriage in terms of obligations owed by the men to the women. They’re going to be tripping over themselves to find a way to lock men into financial and other obligations to women, even if men are avoiding getting married.
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Nova,
Yes, I think you’re right, and current child support efforts and the like are proof of this fact. However, we have to keep in mind that billions of arrears are still owed, and, that the vast majority of Black Men who owe, aren’t those who are high earning; in fact, most of them barely make 30K/yr before taxes. A big part of the current prison population are made up of such Men, meaning that it costs all of us more to “punish” them. When you add it all up, its just not worth it; its actually cheaper to just let these Men be involved in their kids’ lives, making whatever contribution they can.
I’ve said it before and it bears repeating-Feminism is unsustainable. What I’ve just laidout above is one such example.
O
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Yes the entrire c/s regime is a scam, as is the stereotype of the deadbeat dad.
I think that feminism is not sustainable long-term, either. I just am skeptical that women — who have a ton of political power — would ever actually vote in favor of changes to the system that would benefit society overall, but rein in women somewhat. That seems unlikely to me — which makes me think something more dire will happen, unfortunately.
Born at the wrong time, I think. 🙂
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Nova,
I don’t think a Taliban-like situation will happen here or anywhere in the West, not by White folk/Men, anyway-just not the way they’re wired in my view. That said, what I think will happen, is that the edifice will continue to crumble, w/more and more civic and social dysfunction continue to spiral out of control, until-WOMEN themselves begin to call for a change. And, its happening here and there: Kay Hymowitz frequently writes from this perspective, as do other “equity feminists”, like Kathleen Parker and others. They are smaller voices in the debate at present, but I think they will win out over the longterm.
Think about this: the singlebiggest losers of the economic downturn haven’t been Women, they’ve been Men-some 80% of all layoffs/firings have been Male. Now…
For the first time in Western history anyway, a national economy will be largely supported by Women. The question is, when you really come down to it, will Women be as willing to bite the bullet as Men have traditionally done? We’ll have to wait and see.
Leadership means that often, more often than one would like, sacrifices have to be made, including personal ones. Women by and large have never been taught the importance of this, indeed, if anything, its been the exact opposite-“You Go, Girl!”; “You Can Have It All”, etc.
The next few years, the balance of Obama’s first(?) term, will be most interesting indeed…
O
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I agree with that — the key will be when/whether women wake up and start to advocate for changes, other than feminist ones. The current period is a test — as you say, we shall see where it leads us.
I do agree that people like Sommers and Parker and Hymowitz are allies, even with their blemishes. They’re who the Nigerian critic Chinweizu Imbekwe would consider “tomboy feminists”, I think. I just finished reading his book “Anatomy of Female Power” and wrote some notes on it in my blog. Well worth reading, it addresses many of the kinds of issues we’ve been addressing here, but from a different and fresh perspective.
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“””””””””””””””Novaseeker,
She owns him now, pretty much.”””””””””””””””
This is where being a man has its benefits.
He still decides how far she can go. She only owns him in this life not if he chooses to take it to the next level of personnal mans law which trumps anything else.
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A woman also has this same power thinking about it. It is what actually makes us equal in the end.
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Gunny—
Nova—
There are SKADS of cheating wife blogs. Just tons. You can get started by looking at her blog roll. Then look at the blog rolls of who she links, and so on.
Note, I consider true bilateral open marriages with rules, whether they’re swinging in flavor or playing separately, where both partners tell all or as much as their partner wants and make the feelings of their primary partner their primary concern, and give absolute veto power to the other, to be a very different thing. A veto is most likely to be invoked if the prospective outside playmate is known to them or awkward, or if / when strong emotional feelings seem to be developing. There’s a lot more risk of that on the female side, if both partners are still in love with each other, and only seeking sexual variety and some mutual competition / jealousy spice. This is only for alpha males however. Betas are likely to get killed if they go here.
The risks in the case of women who can only really let themselves go and fully enjoy sex if there are strong emotional feelings as well, or who tend to develop strong emotional feelings for anyone they have good or great sex with, are probably and maybe certainly too great. Ironically, these sorts of women are often the very most jealous about their husbands ever playing, because they project their tight linkage of good or great sex with rapidly deepening emotional attachment onto their husbands – which is rarely accurate once a man has been having sex for some time. As well men often don’t fully appreciate the risks attendant to these sorts of women playing even consensually with veto rules with other sex partners – lovers.
The risks are even greater though when women cheat. There it’s a conspiracy with her lover against her husband, and there’s no sense that he’s wonderful and confident for allowing the freedom (and desirable to other women due to taking advantage of it himself), but rather that he’s a dupe for not discovering her actions, or inadequate for not sensing that her emotional needs (and sote voce sexual novelty needs) are not being fully met. (Who are in a marriage after 4 or 6 years?)
This is certainly only for a minority of people. As well, ironically, it probably works better if the female partner is a former slut – who can and often has enjoyed sex without strong emotional ties. Best of all for this though would be a good girl due to a religious or other traditional upbringing who’s first real love way you, but who’s a true nympho in bed once she’s been properly worked and encouraged by you her future husband. I.e. if raised differently she could have been a slut, and might become your deeply loyal to you slut. After the new marriage stage is over (where you might have done things like Mff threesomes after awhile), you start with baby steps to explore open with rules, with the firm understanding that it’s NOT a one way trip, if either partner can’t handle it.
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Nova —
A very large part of women’s political power is that men haven’t / won’t attack women politically as a group, or even as a very large sub group (feminists), at any kind of mainstream level.
That’s a huge male mistake. Yeah we’re wired in that direction, but we can overcome it, given current circumstances.
It’s as well a fantasy to think that feminism will self destruct. Our whole society may be destroyed, or anyway diminished and made follower, by outside threats (China possibly), but it’s unlikely that feminism will simply self destruct without such. However, it might be overthrown.
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Maybe, but not if that’s your attitude. With an attitude that all women are at bottom devlish whores, you may be able to ensnare and maintain your web of love. But with an attitude of mutual dedication, divorce always looms.
Yes, we do. My new girlfriend had her first vaginal orgasm, multiple orgasms, and minute long sustained orgasm with me. A big dick is a huge tool in the arsenal of love.
It’s one reason I always date very petite asians. Not a chance in the world I won’t be able to reach her G spot.
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lol xsplat
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Took two weeks initially but once it started flowing it was like waterfall time he he he
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Then I really turned up the heat.
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Welcome back by the way how is it going?
By the way if your girlfriend gets preggers you can give me the kid lol
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Even worse at secretloverslane.blogspot.com
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Really?
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wow, both you and her have serious issues, along with pretty much all of the commenters on your blog :S
I am glad I don’t live in the bitter world that you all do!
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LOL Stef that is the funniest shit I have read in a long time. You must be wonderslut or something. You do live on earth right.
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🙂
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Great… another site I can bookmark and never come back to
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I have never laughed so hard at a blog before, this stuff is fucking gold.
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The “Errant Wife” is a dirty, dirty whore. I feel sorry for the guy who was duped into marrying her. He should have been looking for signs of sluttiness before marrying her, as I am certain they were obvious.
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great website, you obviously care enough about the site to create great content. The web needs more sites like this. keep it up.
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Hold up, hold up, hold up. These liberal feminist men are actually applauding her cheating on her husband! Calling her heroic! Certainly these emasculated “men” know that their wives (if they have them) are cuckolding them as well.
Its as if by applauding her slutiness they earn brownie points in hopes of avoiding the poor husbands fate.
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