My source deep in the dainty underbelly of the flourishing dandy/fop subculture sent me pics of the kinds of girls that swoon for feminized Western white males. She wanted to inform me — sarcastically — of the caliber of pussy these guys are scoring.
From my vantage point (my crotch), these girls are cute. Totally do-able, maybe even date-able. Which just proves that as long as a chick has an attractive facial bone structure and a slender figure and isn’t too old, it won’t matter how badly she tries to hide her assets under hideous clothes, hair styles and nose-picking — guys will still want to bang her. The blonde’s ponytail is the perfect length for using as reins during rough doggy style lovemaking. Whoa whore-sy!
That my female undercover agent thought these girls were low value is telling of the psychosocial differences between men and women. Men discern beauty with the keen eye of an electron microscope. A millimeter here, a geometric disturbance there, can mean the difference between beautiful and so-so. After all, men have been honed by millions of years of evolution to avoid getting duped by women who don’t possess the genuine goods. Bad consignment shop hats and dark eyeliner are minor obstacles in the way of our ability to suss out a genetically hot face worthy of our jizzbombs. (Cue: Kick a Bitch).
Women discern female beauty in context with everything else and through the lens of their own sexual market value. They see horrendous fashion sense and they downgrade the girl’s hotness rank. They see a chick picking her nose and she loses beauty points. Because for a woman, beauty is the sum total of a person. That is why men not blessed with good looks can boost their attractiveness to women by other means. It’s not the distance between his eyes or the shape of his cheekbones but the nebulous interaction between his face, clothes, body language and the words coming out of his mouth.
It is a persistent human failing to project our own psychological profile onto the other sex (and other race). Who among us can truly put themselves in another person’s shoes? Women may be the more empathetic sex, but their blindspots with regard to male attractiveness standards are as glaring as men’s blindspots to the things that turn on women.
UPDATE:
My undercover female source who brought me these pics informed me that she was *not* being sarcastic in pointing up the caliber of pussy that hipster dandies score. In her words:
just reading now…i think they are highly attractive and i envy them (and their careers as artists ie private school girl roots) disgustingly! […] i found the girl picking her nose whilst in pearls…cute, in a subversive kind of way. i dream of such clean dark eyeliner application skills, and the gall to don raccoon ear flaps like you’re tina turner in mad max when it’s actually the annex, toronto. of course i think they’re self-indulgent idiots, but i would be too, given the chance.
So to clear the air, she is not deducting points for nose-picking or hideous fashion. Which makes her quite unique among women as a judge of female beauty. But then, the kind of people in my orbit are unique. That’s how I roll.
Thanks for the follow-up, this is definitely the more interesting topic, why women reward this beta-losers with their (not wet) pussies.
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“Because for a woman, beauty is the sum total of a person. That is why men not blessed with good looks can boost their attractiveness to women by other means.”
quick thought: why are women more concerned with the total package as opposed to just the looks?
for a woman, her looks are the biggest indicator of her offspring’s health and survival. the pathogen load argument from the other day exemplifies this.
for men, survival of him and his family depends on many other qualities, since in a hunter-gatherer role, we have to call on other attributes. things like personality, a sense of humor, masculinity, etc come into play.
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@Chuck:
these things come into play for alpha males deciding whether or not women are worthy of their time for the long haul. Women’s looks matter most the first night/day I pick them up, however their personality comes into play (are they a record-breaking slut? do they have traits that would give them high value?) later on after I have gotten over their looks initially and after the 3rd lay, when now I’m in more control of what happens for the future of the relationship.
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It’s so true that beta behavior and clothes that fail to show a woman’s features will lower the score of the total attractiveness of a woman in the eyes of other women. However, men somehow have the keen eye to see past these things, I think because unless the face is hidden, then a lot of the instant attraction for males is generated through the attractiveness of a good looking face (body follows, and if it’s covered men will use their imagination, this usually means that the women get the benefit of the doubt)
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The nosepicker — is that Juliet Binoche?
The v-neck guy — seems like an allright guy, for a hipster
The Heineken bottle guy — something about his look really makes me want to kick his ass
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heineken? that hipster’s a poser. he should be drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon.
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Great post — women understanding men’s perspective, and vice versa, would lead to a lot of happier people.
On a related note, you should check out VH1’s Tough Love. It’s a show about a male matchmaker who doles out “tough love” advice to 8 hapless and flawed women from a male perspective.
There’s been 7 episodes so far and a few full episodes are available at the VH1 site. http://www.vh1.com/shows/tough_love/video.jhtml?sort=descend
In Episode 1 — the matchmaker has the women parade in front of 3 guys and then the guys give their first impressions of the women. The comments are mostly brutal but it’s enjoyable how the women, upon hearing the comments, are surprised and devastated.
In Episode 6 — the girls have to reveal one quirky aspect of themselves and then a male audience votes whether that quirk is cute or crazy. there’s a girl who wears a tiara at home because she sees herself as a princess but she is legitimately offended when all the guys say that that quirk is crazy instead of cute.
VH1 shows are mostly trash but this one is brilliant.
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Your friend is right; Those chicks are low value. Are they do-able? Yes, if they magically appeared in my bedroom naked after a chemical bath. But in those pictures they just look grimy, and I cannot respect anyone who thinks it’s trendy to dress like an insane homeless cat lady. In short, they may be able to birth quality children, but I would not trust them to raise them.
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Well, once again, this is where we part ways.
One of thee first things I’m looking at in a Woman is her figure, particularly her backside-no “Piyaah!” no interest. No doubt a nice looking face for a heck of a lot, don’t get me wrong, but we Brothas place more importance on the bodyframe than do our White brethren.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
And I’m not seeing much evidence in the pics above that the White Dandies are pulling the White chicks. The guys featured in the pics look to me like average White guys these days, more or less. Not Dandies, in my view.
O
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Definately low value. 3/10
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de Tocqueville,
Although they are rightly derided as Trash, VH1 shows secretly chronicle the fall of Western Civ. Between the minstrel show of non-entity Flavor Flav to the desperate recycling of any white male sex symbol way past their prime (Scott Baio! Bret Michaels) to the so-called “Charm schools” where violence and trashiness reign to the I love the 80s/90s and Best Week Evers, that further push the notion that the minor and inconsequential are somehow important and valid—this is our world, ending one show at a time.
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there’s been a lot of talk about ridiculous female behavior on this blog, as well as roosh’s and others. it’s bothered me for the longest time. what the fuck is wrong with women these days the other day i overhead something that made it click for me. some woman was telling her male friend that she thinks DC must be a great city for single men cause it’s filled with so many “driven and accomplished women”. my immediate reaction was to want to go over and ask her why she thought that’s what men want. i didn’t, because i knew my question would most likely be greated with a befuddled look and no real answer.
part of our contemporary conundrum is that so many people have internalized the ‘men are the same as women’ line that it’s infected how women relate to men. women tend to find the facets of male competition attractive. be the best at something and women will tend to find you attractive at a level much greater than just your looks or personality. conversely, men don’t really care about any of the ways females compete with each other. this leads to the real problem with being a single male in DC: it’s a city full of average looking women with an entitled and inflated sense of their own dating market value.
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You’re overlooking the most important point of all – girls like that are the sort who’ll be proud of their GNP’s. Yummo.
Peter
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Quick Question:
With the feminization of Males and the masculinization of Females, do you think humans will evolve into a one gender species like say, Starfish?
Side note:
This trend is really out of control.
– MPM
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The v-neck guy — seems like an allright guy, for a hipster
He somehow looks foreign to me. It could be that he doesn’t realize that v-necks aren’t very fashionable in America.
The Heineken bottle guy — something about his look really makes me want to kick his ass
Agreed. He looks like the sort of fratboy whose dad makes a huge cash contribution to the college, thereby saving him from getting expelled after a pledge drops dead from drinking 20 tequila shots.
Peter
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That’s the truth, but I think there must be a flip side that DC is great for players because it is full of average looking women with a surface deep and therefore easily exploitable sense of their own value.
The plural of antedote is usually bullshit, but a party I went to this weekend really emphasized this point. There was an average looking female professional there who drank too much and started telling the truth. She was generally all over the road, but she eventually just came and and said that she was worthless because she lost her job, she hated her life, her mortgage (brought at the top of course) was expensive, etc.
My first thought was that she would probably be into some kind of rough sex/bdsm shit, which might be fun, but what I later realized is that this city must be FULL of these kinds of women today. Their sense of self-worth must be devastated, especially given their natural predilection to insane emotional bullshit and the current economy that is absolutely slaughtering the average suckers.
So like weak members of the herd, or maybe just an entire weak herd, they should be easier to catch and devour. And they should be more receptive consciously or unconsciously to any indications of strength and steadfastness, to counteract all the topsy turvy headgames they are playing with themselves.
Is this true?
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The long-term trend might be masculinization of both men and women, given matriarchy’s tendency for selecting the biggest & baddest males for babydaddies.
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Obsidian can’t make one goddamn post without referencing race in some way (and capitalizing random words for no apparent reason).
Anyway, it is not enough for me that a woman has an attractive facial bone structure and a slender figure. Clothes and hair matter too, and also teeth, skin and personal hygiene. Many things.
Those women are all hideous and I surely would not hit them.
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The first two photographs up top have major hipster cred, since they’ve clearly been taken by a Polaroid or on another older filmstock.
Lance –
I ran into this all the time in college. Given that we had a rep for unattractiveness, the women had to rationalize as to why men weren’t after them in droves. The reason? It’s the man’s fault, duh! As for the women, they were flabbergasted that we men were not insatiably drawn to their intelligence and competitiveness. And amazingly, above all of this, I would say that the majority of women, most of whom would not rate more than a “6” or “7” outside the hallowed campus grounds, were unreceptive to male approaches, regardless of where that approach was made. The sense of entitlement and superiority was out of control.
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G Manifesto:
No way. Sexual reproduction speeds up evolution – males get all the variation ’cause only 1/5 of them or so _need_ to survive. It’s just way to advantageous to lose.
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Correction: “…majority of _attractive_ women…”
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Funny thing is that the nose picker is probably the one I found most attractive. I would imagine a man in similar pose would fail epically with women.
I barely noticed the nose picking (in any case, I gave her the benefit of the doubt – she was scratching the side of her nose).
Neither of the guys look particularly dandy.
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I pulled 1/5 out of the air, so don’t take it to heart, but as far as I know, historically, only 40% of men have reproduced compared with 80% of women. The principle still holds – the human reproductive rate is female and resource bound, almost never male bound.
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contrarian
In his defense, many others talk about race. Racial differences in attraction and attractiveness are an interesting topic that is relevant to pick up.
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@feministix:
the title of your post belies the flaw in your argument. you’re coming from the belief that female beauty is a cultural construct as opposed to an innate biological desire for a certain set of characteristics. you begin with an assumption and reason backwards from there.
you make to much of male hierarchies. men compete; and hierarchy is a way of keeping score.
you banged a 9 last night… oh yeah, i had a threesome with two 8s
here’s the thing, however men choose to keep score, female hierarchies exist at a level of sophistication that most men can’t even imagine. you make reference to maxim’s top 100 list. two things here: first, maxim has always struck me more as ‘cosmo for dudes’ than as a real men’s magazine and second, the very existence of such a list demonstrates how simplistic male ranking is. part of the sophistication of female hierarchies is that they are often hardly acknowledged.
you talk about supermodels as the standard of beauty, but you don’t acknowledge that the fashion world is dominated by women and gay men. what did models look like in the ’50s and ’60s when men ran advertising firms and magazines?
in the last paragraph, you talk about how beauty standards work against the average man because he can be attracted to average women. that should be a clue that beauty is not, in fact, a male invention.
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we are no longer a nation of producers. we are a nation of parasites.
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we need finebantastic! to chime in on emo fop subculture
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I like the nose picker and look forward for the opportunity to personally pick her other nostril for her so that I can flick the buggar at a hipster fag. I’m just classy like that.
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@ Contrarian
The topic addresses western white males so of course, race will be salient — white doesn’t mean the absence of color or race.
In fact, race intersects ALL topics no matter how much one tries to deny it.
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Those are skanky women to me.
The two guys look more like fags than dandy/fops.
Skanky/faggy combo.
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“you’re coming from the belief that female beauty is a cultural construct as opposed to an innate biological desire for a certain set of characteristics. ”
You got it wrong. The cultural construct *is* the innate biological desire. If men innately desired a certain set of characteristics, there would be no difference between the attractiveness of women across races.
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The girls here are making the same impression for guys as the feminized boys for us, they are totally doable, they are not to old, not fat and we can look beyond a silly mustache, like you claim to be able to look beyond a thick layer of crayon.
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“part of the sophistication of female hierarchies is that they are often hardly acknowledged.”
I don’t understand them myself. Never did well with a female hierarchy. They seem closely tied to attractiveness to men though not perfectly. The girls that do the best on a female hierarchy have a combination of attractiveness, slightly high T which makes them want to be socially dominant and the right kind of personality traits- conscientiousness being a big one.
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Lurker says, “we are no longer a nation of producers. we are a nation of parasites.”
:: passes Lurker some popcorn and her spare foam middle finger ::
I’d give you a t-shirt too, but we couldn’t get organized enough to decide whether our symbol should be a red eye atop a pyramid of skulls, or a rising black sun.
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All this recent sturm und drang about the imminent fall of Western Civilization is tied to the fashions and mating habits of white hipsters?
What percent of the population are these people?
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feministx
My theory is that in the 1 to 10 rating, anything above 7 becomes as much about status as attraction.
A 7 is at a level that should get most men’s motor running. An 8, 9, or 10 will be seen as more attractive by more people (his 7 may not be seen as a 7 by everyone including other women). This provides status to her male mate.
But, status is important, not just for other men but also for attracting other women (social proof).
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And do young hipsters become old ones, or do they eventually get tired of their tired ironic poses, get married, and move back to the Midwestern burbs they were raised in?
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feministx
The attractiveness of her mate is important for a woman’s status with other females. The girl who bags the big elephant (the alpha stud) will greatly increase her status with other women. It has no effect on her status (attractiveness) amongst men.
The man that attracts the 10 babe will see his status rise amongst men and women.
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Default User
Personally, I couldn’t care less about status.
If you already have a woman, why would you need to attract more?
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omw
“And do young hipsters become old ones, or do they eventually get tired of their tired ironic poses, get married, and move back to the Midwestern burbs they were raised in?”
I always wondered this too. (Although I try not to spend too much brain power thinking about it).
We have a whole generation of sleeve tattoo people. What are they going to do when they are older?
The art world can only support so many “artists”.
Tattoos. That is another thing.
15 years ago to have sleeve tattoos was pretty unique/outsider/jail culture/tough guy.
Now sleeve tattoos have been taken over by sissy guys and females. It is completely mainstream.
Strange world we live in.
– MPM
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contrarian
“If you already have a woman, why would you need to attract more?”
Obviously spoken by someone who has not enjoyed the pleasures of two beautiful women at the same time.
Or three.
– MPM
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“Thanks for the follow-up, this is definitely the more interesting topic, why women reward this beta-losers with their (not wet) pussies.”
Why do you think they are beta losers? Nothing prevents these guys from having all the dark triad traits useful to bedding chickies.
“A 7 is at a level that should get most men’s motor running. An 8, 9, or 10 will be seen as more attractive by more people (his 7 may not be seen as a 7 by everyone including other women). This provides status to her male mate.”
This is how I feel (I’m bi leaning les). After a girl is a 7, it’s about other factors unless the girl is an absolute 10 in which case all other factors become mitigated.
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If you already have a woman, why would you need to attract more?
you are a fucking GAY EUNUCH. no man who produces testosterone would ask such a stupid question
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Default, good lookin in reply to “Contrarian”; another poster summed it up best along w/you, its really impossible to grasp the full impact of Game, etc, w/o assessing racial realities, good or bad.
Moreover, while I have dated White Women in the past, I have clearly more experience w/Black Women; and, as I see the world and experience same thru Black eyes/skin, I give my views from that standpoint. It is, what it is, and though I’m aware that this may be unsettling to “Contrarian” and his ilk, he’l just have to learn that he doesn’t live in a monochromatic world.
As for my writing style, its just that, a style. No big whup.
O
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The G Manifesto
Gimmick posters like you are amusing for a short while, but you’ve really outstayed your welcome.
Anonymous
I’m a gay eunuch because I don’t want to cheat on my girlfriend? What?
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Contrarian: If you already have a woman, why would you need to attract more?
You have much to learn young one.
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Obsidian: The guys featured in the pics look to me like average White guys these days, more or less. Not Dandies, in my view.
That’s the scariest thing about this whole phenomenon.
Our civilization is so fucked that it’s just a walking corpse which doesn’t even realize it yet.
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she thinks DC must be a great city for single men cause it’s filled with so many “driven and accomplished women”
Blech. These women are a huge PITA. You will never be priority #1 with some horrible young doctorette or lawyerette. You won’t even make the list! And if you did, you wouldn’t like it anyway, since she is being trained and socialized to be driven and aggressive, i.e. masculine not feminine.
When she’s 35 she may suddenly realize she wants to breed, but you’ll be long gone by then.
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contrarian
She might leave you. You might leave her. It is nice to be desired. You may only be looking for a quick fling. If one woman is good two is better.
As we have discussed, it is good for a man to be seen as attractive even (especially?) in a long-term relationship.
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contrarian
“Gimmick posters like you are amusing for a short while, but you’ve really outstayed your welcome.”
Beethoven had his critics too.
My comment still stands.
– MPM
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The cultural construct *is* the innate biological desire. If men innately desired a certain set of characteristics, there would be no difference between the attractiveness of women across races.
beauty is an innate male desire for signs of health, symmetry, and youth. the ‘beauty myth’ you speak of is partly based on beauty, but expanded to include a whole set of criteria that men don’t generally care about. the hierarchy you speak of doesn’t come from men. it comes from other women. this is why the more there is often a huge divergence between male and female ideas of attractiveness.
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I’m a gay eunuch because I don’t want to cheat on my girlfriend? What?
it’s okay not to want to cheat, but to actually have to ask why a guy would want to makes you a gay eunuch. i dont cheat either but since i have testosterone in my balls and a male sex drive i can totally understand the urge and dont have to ask dumb questions about why other guys would want to do so
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Hey, apropos of nothing, here’s a really cute black hipster chick: http://lookatthisfuckinghipster.tumblr.com/
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for example i like health food and dont eat junk food but i dont go around asking “why would someone enjoy a burger?” because it feels awesome! duh!
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Default User
“If one woman is good two is better.”
Exactly.
I can’t comprehend why “conventional thinking” says we have to be with one woman.
Two dollars are better than one.
Two custom suits are better than one.
Two cigarettes are better than one.
Two cribs on the Mediterranean are better than one.
If I ever settle down, trust me, it will be with two girls not one.
Or Three.
– MPM
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G, good points, but the counter argument (via, of all places, “Everyone Loves Raymond” and Peter Boyle) is pretty good as well (paraphrasing):
“What did I tell you about getting a woman on the side? It doesn’t get rid of your problems. Now you got two problems!”
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I definitely agree w/the “overvaluation” idea that at least some, if not many, Women have these days. And of course in my view, what drives it is all of the things that prevent Women from having to come to grips w/the consequences of their actions.
What a lot of Women simply refuse to accept, is that Age is a huge factor in their ability to attract and retain a mate. Simply put, the younger you are, the better your chances, and the older you are, the harder your chances. This has remained a constant throughout the world’s socieities and cultures, more or less, for hundreds, if not thousands of years. And if actual trends are any indication, this will not stop any time soon.
Yes, there are always exceptions to any rule. We all know and see this in action in our own lives. Yet what has happened-not just to Women but to Men, too-is a kind of pernicious thinking that, as Steve Sailer mocks Garrison Keeler, that all of the kids from Lake Woebegone are above average. Were it so.
The harsh truth is that very few people are truly above average-most of us are at best, average-and that need not be a bad thing. Until relatively recently in history, it wasn’t.
Our expectations are so incredibly high, its little wonder why we as a group of people, and Women in particular, are so unhappy all the time, despite huge advances in life expectancy, quality of life and so on. Far too many Women have such distorted and out of step expectations with what real life has to offer them, that one honestly begins to question these ladies’ hold on reality. Seriously.
In the Black community, this is in evidence among those Sistas who take the biggest umbrage at Brothas who date and/or marry out-namely, White Women. I can’t tell you how many parties and social functions I’ve attended where this topic comes up, and where Sistas seething with righteous indignation brings these topics up, heaping wheelbarrows full of scorn on such Brothas. But when I point out to them the basic realities of the situation-that such a Brotha is simply making the most of his enhanced market value, and ask why should he be with *them*, who, I might add, aren’t even comparable with the Hoochie Mamas in terms of raw sex appeal and attractiveness-these Sistas respond along the lines of a George the Animal Steele. They go nuts. How dare I inject a bit of reason and reality into the picture? These Sistas, having gone to college and done all the right things Feminism has told them to do, have a right to a highly accomplished, highly educated and attractive Brotha, simply because they’re both Black. Wow.
We can take the “Black” out of the equation and still get the same result-Women in our time simply do not have a realistic view of what is possible and doable on the relationship market-and worse, they’ve bought the notion, hook line and sinker, that whatever a Man can do a Woman can do, if not better. This is patently false.
And only till a Woman reaches her upper 30s, does she began to realize this. That is, if she’s got any sense at all.
O
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“The punishment for bigamy is having two wives.”
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Feministx says, “If men innately desired a certain set of characteristics, there would be no difference between the attractiveness of women across races.”
Social context/convenience does influence perceptions of attractiveness, but there are things that are fairly standard about beauty. They mostly have to do with reproductive and functional fitness.
Some time ago, I made a post to illustrate my point about both the objectiveness of beauty and the way social context can confuse people about it. I linked to two photos, both of Black women. One was a westernized hairweave type but darker skinned. The other was a more reddish complexioned Masai woman.
One thing I looked for in the Masai example was symbols of high regard and recognition of her beauty. Some ornaments indicate one’s family’s status while others are gifts one receives from other people. This needed to be someone who was recognized as beautiful in and out of her culture. This way, my own shortcomings in perception wouldn’t come into play.
Those who responded saw the more westernized woman as more beautiful, but they couldn’t really call the Masai woman uglier with conviction. None could come up with a comparison flaw that didn’t have to do with fashion.
The Masai woman has a shaved head.
Well, you can’t see the westernized Black woman’s real hair either.
Certain details in what is perceived as beautiful may differ, but whatever they are, they have to be indicators of youth, health, reproductive readiness, and functional fitness.
Fashions and their cultural context indicate other things that are secondary in physical attractiveness.
In some cultures, women are expected to pierce and stretch their lips, tattoo themselves, maintain their weight at a certain level, wear certain colors, and a host of other cosmetic tweaks that say something about her psychological state and status in the society. Some prove that she is very dedicated to her culture and has undergone the rites of passage that she is supposed to at her age. Others are statements of individual traits and preferences.
By saying that they are secondary, it doesn’t mean they’re not important. In most cases these are more important both in determining whether someone is “doable” or marriageable.
It’s just that when one is talking about what beauty is, optimal heath and reproductive status indicators win hands down, no matter where you go. A person who appears to be more able to handle the rigors of living in this world is more beautiful. Add to that the appearance of being more able to meet the demands of their society, and one will be perceived as even more beautiful.
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lurker
“What did I tell you about getting a woman on the side? It doesn’t get rid of your problems. Now you got two problems!”
The only way to avoid female problems is to swoop zero girls (not an option).
If you play it right, the two girls can negate each other and you can actually have less problems than with one.
So my theory goes…
– MPM
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ok, so who’s up for moving to a retreat in Idaho at this point?
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I found this article on early marriage:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042402122.html
Turns out those really high divorce stats mostly apply for people under 20 and more so for men who marry early than women. There is nothing wrong with a 25 year old man marrying a 21 year old woman.
BTW most social conservatives have their head up their asses on this. If you aren’t explicitly in favour of early marriage you are defacto in favour of premarital sex. Expecting people to wait until their late twenties is ridiculous. That said, conservative Evangelicals, for example, do tend to get married earlier.
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Default User
If you are no longer with her, she is not there to boost your status.
Why?
The G Manifesto
Beethoven was not a figment of someone’s imagination.
Since you’re a gimmick and not a real person, it doesn’t. You haven’t been with multiple women any more than I have. And anyway, I have no interest in anything except a monogamous longterm relationship.
Anonymous
It’s a completely valid question, but it appears that you don’t have an answer. Not suprising since you use words without even knowing what they mean.
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G, as always, i bow to your brilliance.
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G, don’t mess with contrarian, he is merely Asiancity-ChristianityFounder-BalledUpHandforpunching in disguise.
Bets to let trollish betas lie.
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gah… bitches are so fucking stupid. the next retarded fashion is in and it’s just as stupid looking as the last.
i would love nothing more than to smear those little warrior-stripes with a hefty glop of man-goo. Grrrrr baby! You’re a vicious little warrior princess aren’t you? Now hold still you stupid cunt, I’m about to make some “art”…. on your face
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“Best” not “bets.”
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Thursday:
“BTW most social conservatives have their head up their asses on this. If you aren’t explicitly in favour of early marriage you are defacto in favour of premarital sex. Expecting people to wait until their late twenties is ridiculous.”
Yeah, I’ve thought this for awhile, too.
This was a big source of conflict among the homeschooling religious people I know during my youth, though.
The more mainline ones just sucked it up and got reconciled to the idea of premarital sex, and the hardliners started getting interested in “courtship” for their own kids around age 18.
Still, there’s a tradeoff. Early marriage means less income potential.
Everyone can say there’s more to life than money all they want, but when push comes to shove, most of ’em still send daughters off to college.
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feministx, if you really don’t think that beauty is universal, we’ll find those tribes where the women have crap in their lips and droopy breasts and drop Kathy Ireland circa 1986 and Cindy Crawford circa 1990 off in their villages, in only their bikinis, and give them men their the choice on who to fuck.
Men will take what they can get, and isolated cultures often develop idocyncratic body destructions in females that are later seen as grotesque whence exposed to a wider world. See Chinese foot binding.
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Default User
Naaa.
I do think cultural/status tastes can make about a 1 point flip on how a woman is ranked, or in some cases maybe 2 points, but that’s about it. Though I suppose you can add another point for race preference (usually same race preference – though Eurasians tend to be highly ranked by all sorts.)
Not many men (who actually follow a 10 point scale rather than turning it into one where 9 is the highest) would rank Monica Bellucci in her twenties lower than a 9, and the great majority will give her a 10. I think that would have been true in 1950’s America as well. I think most Japanese men would give her at least a 9 also.
However as I’ve said before, and as Obsidian and other AA’s who post here have said in particular cases, AA males do have significantly different preferences. They have a BIG preference for a big booty, much more tolerance for “thickness”, and a lot of interest in a big top as well (even if it’s “purchased” at the price of thickness).
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No. It comes from men. And there is no difference between male and female assessment of attractiveness. Women know a hotter girl when she walks into a room. I will post on the reason for the perceived difference between male and female idea of attractiveness on my blog. It’s kind of obvious when you think about it.
i’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and i await your theory. that being said, i am skeptical.
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Far fewer of them are likely to notice the beauty of a Gisele Bundchen or Linda Evangelista, with their exotic features, until popular culture discovers it.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Won’t comment on Evangelista, but Gisele Bunchen was catapulted into the popular mind by two heterosexuals: photographer Walter Chin (who photographed her for the men’s magazine photo of her on the back of a horse) and Victoria’s Secret creative boss Ed Razek.
The modelling business tends to work this way. First, gays and women pick out the contenders and then heterosexual men pick the superstars out of those chosen by gays and women, through outlets like Sports Illustrated, Maxim, and Victoria’s Secret. Often times though, models popular with men, often bigger girls like Heidi Klum and Tyra Banks, will bypass the high fashion world almost entirely.
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u are a sissy-boy
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contrarian
“Since you’re a gimmick and not a real person, it doesn’t.”
I am very real. And represent a powerful, small segment of the world of Game. One Percenters if you will. Similar to outlaw bikers…
“You haven’t been with multiple women any more than I have.”
Obviously, you haven’t or you would share similar viewpoints as mine. Arguing against the pleasures of multiple women can only come from inexperience.
“And anyway, I have no interest in anything except a monogamous longterm relationship.”
Enjoy your one dollar to my two.
Or three.
– MPM
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“feministx, if you really don’t think that beauty is universal, we’ll find those tribes where the women have crap in their lips and droopy breasts and drop Kathy Ireland circa 1986 and Cindy Crawford circa 1990 off in their villages, in only their bikinis, and give them men their the choice on who to fuck.”
I doubt it’s entirely universal. It’s just that it’s fairly flexible. Preferences for body type are especially flexible- even between men in the same culture. Ex, some men prefer statuesque and some prefer petite.
I also wrote about how men in my ancestral culture prefer fair and chubby women over the plethora of darker women that would be considered prettier by western standards based on their facial features.
http://feministx.blogspot.com/2009/04/fat-chicks.html
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correction: we need kassyk’s input on metrosexuals, THEN finefantastic can hit us with the emo fop update. although, both can fill in for the other for the Urban Hipster Upscale Metro scenes
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“Far fewer of them are likely to notice the beauty of a Gisele Bundchen or Linda Evangelista, with their exotic features, until popular culture discovers it.”
Only the untraveled.
I developed a taste for high living, and exotic women at a young age.
– MPM
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testing…
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Why do the males of other species not put such a premium on the appearance of youth as human males do?
I’m sure most of them don’t live long enough for it to matter. The males “prefer” what’s around – and what’s around are the young females, because the older ones got eaten, starved, or died of disease.
Ask a caveman if he prefers young women or old, and he’ll say “What? All women in Grog’s tribe young…”
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The power of male choice produced tall, thin, light-eyed blonds in ancient Lithuania and Scandinavia.
Harsh climate, scarce food meant that men chose only the hottest of women. The fatality rate for men was high in the ice ages. It is no surprise that the most attractive and unique looking women evolved this way.
Thanks to the Vikings, this was spread throughout the ancient world. It somewhat diminshed the further out they fair skinned warriors went; go to the source and you will see some extremely hot women.
Also see Poland, due to large man loss from wars. Scarece men.
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“I also wrote about how men in my ancestral culture prefer fair and chubby women over the plethora of darker women that would be considered prettier by western standards based on their facial features.”
—so given the choice between fat and light skinned or thin and dark, they chose lighter skinned women?
That’s a hobbesian choice. Most men would have preferred the fat, light skinned chick thinned out.
And I stand by it: drop off Kathy Ireland in her prime next to hubba-bubba in your fat chick post and let’s see who everyone lines up for with their dick hanging out. Hint: it ain’t Queen Kong.
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“And I stand by it: drop off Kathy Ireland in her prime next to hubba-bubba in your fat chick post and let’s see who everyone lines up for with their dick hanging out. Hint: it ain’t Queen Kong.
”
Ireland is fair. Make it Naomi Cambell and it will be Queen Kong.
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As above.
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G is on to something here:
“Far fewer of them are likely to notice the beauty of a Gisele Bundchen or Linda Evangelista, with their exotic features, until popular culture discovers it.”
Only the untraveled.
what do we know?
(1) male conceptions of beauty are attuned to perceiving signs of health, age, and genetic makeup. (2) humans are much better at noticing subtle differences in other people’s appearances within their own race than outside of it. put these two facts together and it follows that men may have a harder time discerning the same beauty markers in “exotic” women. this does not go against the idea that beauty is more nature than nurture. it only implies that nurture affects how we perceive beauty. it’s a subtle distinction, but an important one.
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Similar to outlaw bikers…
Done it twice today.
The ellipses. Weak style.
Your trademark is the period. Full stop.
Respect the brand.
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I think there is a difference between an androgynous male that is very tall or very muscular; versus an androgynous male without any muscle definition or above average height.
One is intriguing, the other is simply gay.
Asian men can look highly feminized. This makes them more attractive?
Perhaps, Obsidian can give an input with regards to black culture in these matters–men braiding their hair, wearing/decking conspicuous amount of jewelry, doorag, etc. Items that seems feminizing.
Most of these things are just the modernization of tribal marks.
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feministrix: “Ireland is fair. Make it Naomi Cambell and it will be Queen Kong.”
—so you admit their is an objective beauty standard. Given queen kong thin and queen kong fat, they would choose the thin one.
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@ feministx:
Ireland is fair. Make it Naomi Cambell and it will be Queen Kong.
not so fast. the problem is that you are conflating your notion of the ‘beauty myth’ with actual beauty. it’s more likely that all those lip plates and neck rings and ritually inflicted scars are less about beauty than about social status. and in those societies, marriages are less about two people being attracted to each other and more about a beneficial social arrangement.
the point being that our hypothetical tribesman probably makes some sort of distinction between who he finds the most beautiful and who he finds to be the ideal wife. the former being the definition of beauty and the latter being a function the so-called ‘beauty myth’.
at the heart, many of these questions are empirical and it would be interesting to see actual research. that being said, i tend to think the more male-dominated a culture is, the less space there will be between beauty and the ‘beauty myth’. conversely, the more matriarchal a society, the more likely that social conventions will push a form of beauty that is not necessarily the same as what attracts men.
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I’d be interested in some sort of analysis of whether there’s any inate difference in alphaness among subcultures or alphaness is solely among individuals. Are the girls supposedly dorky hipsters are dating just as attractive as the girlfriends of the jocks who beat them up in high school?
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Also see Poland, due to large man loss from wars. Scarece men.
There may be somethign to it but until convinced, I’ll insist that the famous EE women’s beauty has little to do with 20th century wars.
WW1 slaughtered a whole generation of men in France and England, with no celebrated uptick in female beauty. Similar for the Iran/Iraq war.
I don’t know Russia first-hand, but east central Europe — in my observation — is not a doll factory. Most girls you’ll see will be very pleasant 6s-8s. Few fatties. Even plain girls have a feminine and demure way of carrying themselves aroudn men. And nice sense of style. That goes a long way.
Though more 9s and 10s in large cities, as receptionists/ admins/etc. at some of the larger companies.
Similar I’d guess to what we had in America in 1950, or what we’d have without the fattie/mannishness explosion.
Then again, there could also be a pleasant aspect to the Slavic/Baltic features, in both men and women, but that would preceed recent wars. That could be the thing. Look at the girls on the right and left of the guy. Photo of 1944 Warsaw Uprising ( not the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto uprising) of 1944:
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sparks:
“I’d be interested in some sort of analysis of whether there’s any inate difference in alphaness among subcultures or alphaness is solely among individuals”
interesting point.
let’s take a hypothetical hipster chick that’s attracted to hipster guys. i’d be willing to bet that the hipster chick will take the most masculine of the hipster guys that meet her minimum criteria of hipsterness.
it’s like maslow’s hierarchy of needs or something. once the bottom portion of the pyramid, the hipster aspect, is fully satiated, she moves onto the next most important aspect, up to the level that deals with masculinity, in which case she can’t escape her biological destiny of being attracted to masculine over the feminine.
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chuck, that is very true.
I know a group of hipster girls through one I used to date. despite being stridently feminist, smelly, swplers, they readily get wet for a hipster dude who is basically a tool: tall, loud, needs ot be center of attention, overriding lead singer of his local band. He’s pumped and dumped qutie a few of them, and taken more than one’s virginity and just dropped her like a bad habit. He even smacked one. But they all worship him, while hipsters more beta wonder wtf a bunch of womyn’s studies majors are doing following an abusive, jock-acting tool.
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Sparks:
Are the girls supposedly dorky hipsters are dating just as attractive as the girlfriends of the jocks who beat them up in high school?
Surprisingly enough, yes, for the most part.
A bit more on the petite/thin side usually.
They often have an unquantifiable “unique” look that I like, and I’m not talking about their clothes. I wonder about it. Could be a Polish/Eurasian thing I guess.
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they all worship him, while hipsters more beta wonder wtf a bunch of womyn’s studies majors are doing following an abusive, jock-acting tool.
as i said in another comment, i’m steadily becoming convinced that feminism operates as an ingenious shit test. it’s really a way for women to identify the beta males. from there, they proceed to fulfill their biological imperative of finding alpha seed and a beta nest.
it’s like errant wife’s blog. what are the chances she’d ever be attracted to any of those tools leaving supportive comments? men need to get wise before the pendulum swings any farther in the direction of female choice.
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“”””””””””””””””why the human male preference for female youth should be so is one for the theoreticians. perhaps only humans noticeably display their fertility-related age in their faces. the mugs of chimps and dogs don’t look much different from adolescence to old age. or perhaps humans are better evolved than other species to notice signals of prime fertility, and hence the premium placed on female youth. or maybe since there is much less parental investment by other mammals into their young, it doesn’t waste the male’s time to try and dump a fuck into an older female for the purposes of replication.””””””””””””””””””””””””
Who says that females are allowed to live past there prime in the animal kingdom. As they got older they would be eaten because they couldn’t run. All animals would be kept in their prime by attrician. Also look at the video where a group of monkies hunt down and kill another monkey and eat it. This animal kingdom shit has already been exposed. The older females in the monkey tribe probably get killed children of the corn style when their usefullness has gone.
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lurker:
i’ve seen the same thing…since men compete more now for position along intellectual lines, involvement in activism, political ideology, underground music awareness, and thrift store shopping, i’m wondering if the term “poser” then is the new term for calling a man “coward” “yellow” or “pussy”.
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I see tarl brought this up.
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“Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but everyone knows ugly when they see it”
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You want to see beauty go to g’s site I can only handle that shit in small doses where I am at now. That dude knows how to pull pics though.
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Ball gag?
Check.
Butt plug?
Check.
Ribbed condom turned inside out for MY pleasure?
Check.
Good to go.
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I wonder, however, how women come up with these paradigms/pyramids/fads in the first place. Because they’re going to shift, as they always do, and usually with the the next group of people 5-8 years younger than them. In 5-8 years, it’ll be cool to be some sort of post-ironic new wave yuppie (mirroring the 80s, whereas hipsters see themselves as mirroring the late 70s/early 80s punks), and then some slacker-throwback from the 90s for the next ones as we continually re-do our adolescent phases ad nauseum in this country.
just what causes women/culture to invent these paradigms that men then force themselves into, only to find themselves on the old alpha-beta scale again? I know why men fall for it—inexperience/naivite plus the lure of pussy overcoming rational thought—but why the evolving shit test and subcultures?
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Lance, I think you’re right. Except we do have examples of betas getting some feminist bitches—but then again, its usually some kind of open arrangement, or she’s extremely ugly/fat, or she’s a used up dried up hag, or she cheats and he blames himself, or she has kids from pervious marriages he takes care of but she won’t have anymore by him (because that’s oppressing ehr and destroying the planet!).
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Not that I couldn’t picture all those chicks sucking my dick
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Because lurker when a man just stays a man unchanged he gets all the pussy. lol
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Gunslinger, touche.
That may indeed be the root of it: a man unwilling to play by her rules and change with her mood maybe exactly what the shit tests are about ultimately.
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Chuck, Lurker,
I think you both make some really good points. I do think Feminism can be seen as a very astute shit testing mechanism, which weeds out the Alphas from Betas; the trick then of course, is that as I’ve said before, that Feminism isn’t sustainable.
Actually in years gone by, such a strategy would have aided the Feminist position-the Beta male would essentially be “locked” into a marriage, the difference btw now and then being, it was the society at large that kinda shamed him into staying there. Today, its the courts and laws that extract alimony, child support and divorce settlements that do the trick.
But again, its not sustainable-invariably the kids get older, and so does the FemMom-and it gets harder to raise them on her own, all the moreso if said kids happen to be Male. Moreover, it gets harder to attract either Alphas or Betas-she doesn’t have as much reproductive “juice” as she once had for the Alphas, and any Beta w/half a brain wouldn’t touch such a Woman w/a ten foot pole. So, in the longrun, she actually looses. Back in the day, the hubbie stuck around long enough to help her get the kids out of the nest.
Again: Feminism is unsustainable, and we need to start making that case, because its framed in a way that the Tree Hugger Crowd can easily understand.
Chuck, I think you’re spot on in your analysis of the “poser as coward” tag. Very astute.
O
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Yea because she knows her mind doesn’t equal getting what she really wants out of life. She needs to attached to your manly mind to lead her into happiness.
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i like this pocahontas meets thunderdome look.
and i am geographically far enough away from hipsters that i can easily milk this look for three and a half years.
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“””””””””””” Today, its the courts and laws that extract alimony, child support and divorce settlements that do the trick. “”””””””””””””””””
To a real man courts and laws mean nothing if he has his own inward opinions and principles.
“”””””””””””””””””””””””In a word, neither death, nor exile, nor pain, nor anything of this kind is the real cause of our doing or not doing any action, but our inward opinions and principles.
Epictetus””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
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Well Feminism is definitely unsustainable, O, for two basic reasons:
1) women don’t create anything, men do. Women exists as parasites on societies which men create. When you debase and devalue male creation and action, and punish it, you destroy society.
2) Feminism depends on the unending conspiracy theory that men oppress women. If women completely drive men away from them via this method, the conspiracy theory falls apart.
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The woman in media I normally have not had feelings for on a primal level. Some of the chicks on g’s site. Jesus Christ.
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All right, fellows, I didn’t say that it’s fashion magazines that determine what men think is beautiful in a woman. Thursday’s summary of how it works – that magazines like Sports Illustrated and Maxim make particular women’s faces popular – is quite true as far as it goes.
Films and TV have a bigger impact on popular taste in beauty, esp. that of men, than fashion mags. Once an actress with an unusual face has had her particular charm highlighted by a good director and careful lighting/dressing, her type of face or “look” may explode in popularity among both men and women. Actresses or models who date male role models may experience the same kind of apotheosis.
For example, Jack Nicolson, a hero to men of a certain age, dated Anjelica Huston, a woman whose beauty was of a type only a fashion mag could appreciate – and she then found herself sought after by obvious frat-boy types like Ryan O’Neal.
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oh, I should have added, O, for point 1): but Feminism can only exist in a society, because out side of civil society, women will collapse under their own weaknesses. Feminism depends on society producing enough for feminists to exist in their ivory towers, and yet seek to destroy it.
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Clio:
First, humans are unlike most (all? not sure) other animals in that both of our sexes are sexually selected. So to some extent, any quirks which we have don’t even have to any real valid explanation. They could just be our equivalent of peacock tails.
But there are several factors that explain why female youth is desirable.
First, we are among the most complex species out there, in terms the number of our genes and their complexity. We run very close to the edge of nonviability in terms of genetic entropy. Genetic damage accrues with age. So you can expect any highly complex species to value youth for reproduction, all else equal.
Second, human childbirth is one of the most unnatural and horrific things nature has come up with. Maternal mortality was quite high before modern medicine, with both very young mothers and older mothers most vulnerable.
But also by comparison to other species, our children are far more helpless, and need years of constant care before they can make it on their own. Thus, even if you are going to seduce and abandon, you still want a woman who will be around at least, say, 6-8 years, and ideally more like 12-14. Youth helps.
Finally, although this site makes clear that we are not evolved to be solely monogamous, it is also clear we have some adaptation to monogamy. To the extent that that has been true in evolutionary time, then men should be expected to want a wife as young as possible because that she is all you get, and you want the maximum reproductive potential out of her, and only her.
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Agree about the “poser” comment – spot on. It’s not intellect but “Authenticity” (whatever that means) that has value in that kind of community. But this is female-to-male attraction – I doubt too many males would reject an attractive woman for being a “poser”.
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Also meant to add about the differences between humans and other species (ex horses) touched on earlier. Ugly Truth has it right- we are uniquely advanced mentally and have a very long immaturity period for our offspring. In this humans are a very far outlier from other animals, even other primates. I’ve read that this is because even adult humans are “infantilized” compared to other animals – our normal brains are “stuck” (by evolution) in a growth/learning mode that ends very quickly for other animals. It’s the soruce of intelligence, advanced language, curiousity, etc that differentiate us from other animals. But it also makes for complex sexuality.
Anyone have a view on the “Aquatic Ape” theory from the 70s? Basically, that our ancestors spent an extended period living in or around bodies of water – we are the only primates with subcutaneous fat, like whales or dolphins, and who enjoy being in the water – unlike other primates. there was a sexual-selection element to it as well – rear-mounting versus front, and human lips evolved to be thicker than those of any other primate basically to simulate the appearance of a vagina. The author of that theory had a lot of the feminist baggae of that time, as I recall.
I know this is a bit off-point, but — I am *really* tired of these f**king hipsters already!
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Lurker:
> 1) women don’t create anything, men do. Women exists as parasites on societies which men create. When you debase and devalue male creation and action, and punish it, you destroy society.
Much as I do agree with you that civilization was built by men, it *was* built to impress or support those “parasites”.
I also think that you’re devaluing the feminine. Women may not build Pyramids or Moon Shots… but they do birth and raise the next generation. Provided that impulse can be properly harnessed (as traditional society is wont to do; I speak not of lantern-jawed lawyeresses), women and the feminine are as necessary as men and the masculine in the continuation and progress of civilization.
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1) “it *was* built to impress or support those “parasites”.”
—yes, JAM, it was. but it was never built for to be used by them to bludgeon the builders. Society has become corrupted.
“I also think that you’re devaluing the feminine. Women may not build Pyramids or Moon Shots… but they do birth and raise the next generation. ”
—pure biological. As a very famous old biddie once said, “Cows and sows give birth, too.”
I admire women who act like men to create or acheive something meaningful, and women content in the feminine, but feminists are neither content in the feminine nor create or acheive anything but bashing and punishing men.
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G Manifesto:
“With the feminization of Males and the masculinization of Females, do you think humans will evolve into a one gender species like say, Starfish?”
In a thousand years, there will be no men and women, just wankers, and that’s fine by me.
-Mark Renton, Trainspotting
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> —pure biological. As a very famous old biddie once said, “Cows and sows give birth, too.”
Not so. Ask a child with a good father but without a mother.
This being all said, we both agree that feminists are destroying the very society that allows them to act in their destructive ways. All I’m saying is that there is something that women (not feminists) bring to maintenance of civilization, something that men (as a group) cannot supply.
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http://encyclopediadramatica.com/The_Hipster_Grifter
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Most things men do are done to impress women. At least half the time I spend with my friends, is spent talking about women. If there were no women alive, no perspective of spending money in bars, parties, no perspective of marriage and children, I would gladly quit my job and accept one paying only a third as much, just to pay for a broad band connection, beer and pizza.
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gig no shit right I can live on no money almost. Except I want to have a shitload of woman like on g’s site and I think excercise sucks.
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JAM: ” Ask a child with a good father but without a mother.”
–being a good parent is biologically based. There are wolves and penguins that make good fathers and mothers. none of them create society. only men do.
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The biggest irony I think is gonna be when I step to these 10’s with my confidence at superhigh because of alpha status alpha actions. The shit will be easy.
Like the amazon chick that came to my workplace she is looking for a man just like me.
Sometimes the irony in life will almost kill you.
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men create civilizations to protect their offspring and ensure their well being.
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A corrective to the Rubens thing
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P.S. I appears I may have unfairly slandered Botticelli as gay. See here.
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My sister’s been in the “hipster” scene for years. Plenty of good-looking women there, but not necessarily good LTR material. The only real problem I have with that scene is how cliquish and gossipy it is. When guys carry dandyism over into acting like women socially I can’t take it anymore.
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Botticell’s Venus couldn’t be mistaken for Victoria Beckham, though.
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lurker:
> JAM: ” Ask a child with a good father but without a mother.”
>
> –being a good parent is biologically based. There are wolves and penguins that make good fathers and mothers. none of them create society. only men do.
Again, as a man, I agree with your point than men create civilization. All I am saying is that civilization that devalues the feminine (again, as distinct from feminists) isn’t worth the name.
Society is not merely monuments and engineering works, though those are certainly important. It is also the character of the people, their fortitude, their capacity for mercy, their ability to do the right thing… and the knowledge of when doing the right thing means showing no mercy. Many of these intangibles are things provided in traditional society by women. Again, not feminists or man-haters, but by women — mothers, grandmothers, respected elders, sisters, daughters.
For every matriarchy run-amok in the 21st century (viz, sub-Sarahan Africa), there is at least one patriarchal tyranny (viz., Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.). The key to building a civilization worthy of honour and glory is that you need the feminine and the masculine.
The Western world used to have this balance, but has lost it because technologies like cheap and reliable contraception, and feminists seizing power in society (without them understanding or caring about the fragile basis that separated that society they took for granted from the cruel world of all-against-all) has radically upset this balance. Time will tell how soon — and if — the balance re-rights itself.
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what’s the old expression, in bad times, men like a good girl, in good times, men like a good boy? ok, bad joke, and I think its meant for Greek guys anyway.
The whole Betty Paige v. Flapper dichotomy is a false one; the fact is that in certain times boobs versus skinny legs come on does not change the fact that:
1) Betty Paige was not fat by a long shot. Queen Kong she was definitely not.
2) those women who were attractive skinnier ith thin legs are attractive heftier with bigger boobs as well.
For example Queen Kong would be a pretty faced woman and hot if a healthy weight. Men responded to her pretty face.
Take the red head from the Spice Girls, Ginger Spice (aka Geraldine Estelle “Geri” Halliwell). She was plumper with big boobs then, and then dropped the weight and became blond when she went solo. In both cases, she was hot, just in the former, you had boobs but a fatter rump (and uglier legs), and in the other you got nice legs and a tight ass, but a lesser rack.
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The younger Victoria Adam was very botticelliesque.
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JAM,
I’ve heard much said about sub-Saharan Africa being “matriarchal” but how do we reconcile such a notion w/the realities of Rwanda, Congo, Uganda, Kenya? Just to name a few. These are countries that are clearly patriarchal in their makeup and function.
Please explain?
O
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I hate to say this, but a former gf of mine watched that center of all evil, the Tyra Banks show, where they ahd a white woman, a black woman, a hispanic woman, and an asian women talk about what they thought was a healthy body. According to the gf, they would show a siloutted body shap of a woman and ask the girls if the shape was too far, right, or too skinny.
The asian girl always thought the girl should be skinnier, the white girl next in demand for overall thinness, the latina, then the black girl. Then the break downs got sharper: the white and asian girl were unanimous in wanting thinner asses, while the latina and black girl argued over getting more booty and how much. Racks were also an issue; the white girl seemed alone in wanting a bigger rack and smaller ass, while the others seemed more proportional.
Then again, this is the insane Tyra Banks. If she weren’t a natural 9-10, she’d be in a fucking mental ward at this point.
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I’d estimate Venus’ BMI as 23 or 24, which is at the very top of your acceptable BMI range for women.
It’s hard to imagine a girl with BMI 17 standing on that thar clamshell.
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btw, wanted to add one more idea about the gay/female selection of female beauty, aimed at and validated by straight men. Some times it breaks down and there’s a total disconnect. prime exhibits: Sarah Jessica Parker, Sandra Oh, Paris Hilton (OK, she wan’t put up by the gays, but for some reason she fails to go away), Renee Zellweger (i have always found her to be hideous), etc.
I guess the reasons SJP and her ilk contuinue to get parts is because beauty to men isn’t the only audience – the only reason tickets are sold. Raw talent (Meryl Streep) or a strong female-friendly persona (SJP/SATC) can trump beauty.
Thoughts? Again, comment but don’t flame please – I’m writing fast and all my thoughts or examples may not be perfectly correct.
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Men create societies, science, civilation, literature, art, music, poetry, law, order, justice, religion, medicine, technology, and philosophy.
The only things women ever created were problems.
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It is also the character of the people, their fortitude, their capacity for mercy, their ability to do the right thing… and the knowledge of when doing the right thing means showing no mercy. Many of these intangibles are things provided in traditional society by women.
Do you really believe that women are the source of these moral virtues and that without women, these values would not exist?
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All successful African kingdoms were patriarchal. The “matriarchal” tribes were conquered one by one by stronger, patriarchal cultures.
It is funny how feminists have to go to the deepest of jungles, the mountaintops, and the middle of deserts to find matriarchal cultures. They are just proving what a failed idea matriarchy is — if it were really that great the most coveted lands and richest empires would be run by women. Instead, we find only a few scattered tribes in the most undesirable locations, and even then it often turns out that the so-called “matriarchy” is actually nothing of the sort.
So you wouldn’t call Classical Greece “civilized?”
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Was writing when the last few were posted. I’d put Keira in the WTF? category. She looks like Skeletor, and in my view is not a beautiful woman. same view as Obsidian, I guess. A few data points in favor of my earlier argument …
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Maurice, I agree that gays/women often promote ugly women over the objections of straight men, but your examples fall short:
“Sandra Oh,”
—-Sandra Oh is objectively cute, especially the younger version of her on the much-maligned Arli$$ (yeah, it sucked). She was an asian secretary hottie in a skirt every episode. It’s her naturally bitchy personality, plus her older, used up self, that turns men off now.
Paris Hilton is attractive, just a whore, which makes her unattractive. Feminists never understand this.
Renee Zellweger—a very cute girl, especially in Girl next door roles. Never be hot, but a strong 7, an 8 if she got a boob job.
Good examples of your phenomenon are: SJP (obviously a horse face), Barabara Streisand (hello, friggin nose!), Liza Minelli (a picasso picture), and Judy Garland the later years, drug addled years.
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lurker:
but the gains from those endeavors, beyond the academic pursuits, have largely benefited women more than men.
warren farrell addresses this subject in his book “the myth of male power”. man invented the pill, the condom, abortion, no-fault divorce etc. whatever the reasons for inventing anything, whether it be for a perceived societal benefit or a profit, man has made his own bed.
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Ya know, we must remember that the early Catholic Church had to have actual debates on whether women had souls, considering their nature. And I believe other religions have those arguments too.
I wonder why….
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> I’ve heard much said about sub-Saharan Africa being “matriarchal” but how do we reconcile such a notion w/the realities of Rwanda, Congo, Uganda, Kenya? Just to name a few. These are countries that are clearly patriarchal in their makeup and function.
I think we have a semantic problem here.
I would agree with Steven Goldberg in that all societies are patriarchal — in the SPECIFIC LIMITED SENSE that men make (nearly) all the major decisions in any given society. For every Sir-Leaf Johnson, there is a Kabila, an Mbeke and fifty-five other dudes. Men fight for power… to have power and for access to women.
It’s a long argument with lots of evidence that has never been refuted satisfactorily, so those who are interested can look it up on the internets with Google’s assistance. Or better yet, read the book. It’s fascinating.
I meant ‘matriarchy’ in the sense that children are raised and socialized solely or almost-solely by their biological mothers.
The societies that you mention have low paternal investment, with the mothers essentially raising the children with an absent or rotating set of fathers who are unsure of their paternity. I have a friend who does medical research in Zambia, and she essentially corroborates what we’re talking about here.
One of the recent big controversies in Zambia (aside from the Chinese copper-mining multinationals not paying their subordinates as much as the Europeans or Indians) was the passage of a law that prevented the parents of a man from taking property he owned *from his wife* when he died. Could it be that they (subconsciously at least) do not believe that the grandchildren are in fact theirs? I’m not sure if this law was actually passed, so great was the opposition.
Granted, the overlay of conservative Islam or Christianity may alter this… but even in Rwanda, which this same friend visited post-genocide, conforms to this pattern. There were a lot of billboards and radio time declaring that “Rwanda is a Christian (Catholic) country”… but nevertheless, the idea of actual monogamy (and its corollary, high paternal investment) seems to be unheard of.
My (quite conservative and visibly so) friend was openly propositioned quite a few times while wearing an engagement ring by men wearing same. In daylight. In front of his friends.
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Chuck, I agree.
I think this is why societies always seem to be on a cycle of apex and decline; men create the societies, but sow the seeds of their own destruction because all societies that are successful necessarily lend themselves to women taking over and degrading men (and therefore destroying the society).
If you create a scoiety which is peaceful, specialized, and with internal structure that is self-sustaining for decades, the value of men as producers, warriors, and builders goes away, and the power in society shifts to social climbing and backbiting—which is where women naturally excel. Yet sooner or later, a society’s internal structure must be renewed, and specialization breaks down in rough economic times, and invasions threaten. And by that time, women have so castigated men and driven them down that the society no longer has the raw materials of men to rebuild. And thus Rome, Persia, the Ottoman Empire, etc. fall.
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In most societies for most of the time, women created spun cloth, clothing, various household manufacturers, cooking implements, the cooking, and so on. In traditional societies like Latin America, Africa, etc. women are the only responsible entrepreneurs at the small level, and a generally good risk for micro-loans involving say, things like fish or wool markets, fast food stands, and the like.
I would certainly not say that women don’t have substantial economic and social and cultural value apart from child birth and child care. Obviously they do.
However, this must be caveated that women do not generally in either modern industrial or traditional societies pursue engineering, the hard sciences, and so on. Much less tough, physically demanding skilled blue collar labor (electricity linemen, etc.)
Women certainly have a place in the modern workforce, but let’s get realistic. Most wealth creation activities, as opposed to wealth moving-around activities, on large scales are done by men. Women are almost entirely absent from the Silicon Valley entrepreneurial area, for example, and even more absent from computer science and electrical engineering. Women just don’t find these fields attractive, though they do find the biological sciences pleasing and many do some cutting-edge research there.
——————————-
Spot on the “poser = coward” label Chuck.
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Maurice, you’re nuts. Kiera is another Girl Next door attractive kind, much like Renee–with more chance for sexiness. I get the feeling some black men don’t get this attractiveness, but most other races get it.
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P.s. this is why I think—in my wildest speculation–that the invention of sentient, assistant robots–a la “I, Robot”–would ultimately spell the doom of men and perhaps the death of the male sex (or maybe the human race).
Think about it: since men do all the creating, and the building, and the lifting, but women can get all of that from sexless animals that they could command, and would repair themselves—what use men, then? Especially if they became sexbots for women, women have no reason to turn to men.
But I’m a paranoic and very down on the female gender at the moment. 😉
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> doom of men and perhaps the death of the male sex (or maybe the
Dude, artificial wombs will do that to women, lol.
Actually, skynet will destroy us all. Join the Resistance!
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Wolverines!
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O, who is this scarlett? Does she have a last name? wtf is a luke dancer? I keep getting ScarJo pics.
And its not just white men. Asian men are on the white man’s side too.
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The blonde’s ponytail is the perfect length for using as reins during rough doggy style lovemaking. Whoa whore-sy!
*DEAD FAINT*
very nice sir very nice.
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Lurker,
“Scarlett” is the name of a pinup model and exotic dancer. Puerto Rican. Seriously fat booty. Enter those keywords in Google and her website should be easy to find.
The term “Luke Dancer” speaks to the female dancers Luke Skyywalker aka Luther Campbell, head of the rap group Two Live Crew, used in their performances. The dancers were often statuesque, built along the lines of Scarlett. One of TLC’s biggest hits was “Me So Horny”.
O
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still nothing. google it and tell me the key words. nothing is coming up
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eh, I see the TLC album cover, and the girls don’t look terribly different from most dancer girls.
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Lurker,
Try this:
http://www.scarlettsworld.com/
O
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” They were in a position to define what was, and what was not, “beautiful”. ”
—as in gay men. So gay men wanted a skinny coat rack to model jeans, where they always look better. Tyra probably didn’t have this chick’s problems.
And this girl is beyond pin up, and into the world of specialty magazine. I’ll bet she does big butt-type features, no?
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Damn Obsidian,
I would like to maul that arse.
I do beat that pussy up like a rented mule.
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She is attractive, but to be honest seems like a bit of a “one trick pony”. Almost all of the shots were from the behind — for clear reasons. But that makes it seem very lopsided. But attractive, I think.
Interestingly when I typed in Scarlett into google images, of course tons upon tons of pics of Scarlett Johansson popped up. It was hard not to notice a contrast there, even leaving aside race.
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I would enjoy spanking Scarlett. 🙂
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Fellas, welcome to Obsidian’s world of what he considers Beautiful. If you go back to her site, I think you’ll find a link to an online magazine that features other pinups, I think its called NYC Chocolate Models or something like that. I haven’t seen it in awhile but its a very nice piece. Check it out and holla back.
Nova’s point about comparing Scarlett the Booty and Scarlett Johannson makes my point perfectly-while I clearly recognize that the latter is attractive, she just don’t do it for me like the former does. Hence, there ARE real differences in what Men find beautiful, and for us to think different isn’t dealing with reality. Isn’t this the place where pretty lies perish?
Oh, and Google up Latin Spice, another Boriqua exotic dancer and pinup model. Aiiiee…
O
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The G Now sleeve tattoos have been taken over by sissy guys and females. It is completely mainstream.
Strange world we live in.
A few years ago I was thinking of getting a tattoo( in a place I can hide with clothing). Thank God I didn’t, what a waste that would have been.
I’m sick of seeing cheap tattoos that look like a 5 year old used a sharpie on their mom/dad.
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Nova’s point about comparing Scarlett the Booty and Scarlett Johannson makes my point perfectly-while I clearly recognize that the latter is attractive, she just don’t do it for me like the former does. Hence, there ARE real differences in what Men find beautiful, and for us to think different isn’t dealing with reality. Isn’t this the place where pretty lies perish?
When taking race into account, I do think that this is true. Perhaps that’s a correction to the theory? What I mean is, it may be possible that there is a substantial consensus among men of a certain race about female beauty, but these standards vary by race? Just a thought.
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Nova,
A little while back the Tyra Banks show was mentioned, where Women of differing races were compared in terms of beauty. Clearly, Black and Latin Women favored “more” in terms of the behind and to an extent, boobs, whereas Asian Women tended toward slimmer on both counts, and White Women favored big boobs/flat behinds. Trust me when I tell ya, if you put Pam Anderson (in her prime) next to Scarlett the Booty, and ask a bunch of Brothas who’d they pick, Scarlett wins by a landslide.
Simply put, a backside matters a whole heck of a lot to Black Men, it just does, and no amount of hatin on that wil change it. If you want a real object lesson in this, go to the Puerto Rican Day Parade up in NYC. My God…
O
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It could be that there are racial/cultural differences there — it seems to be so, because women generally reflect back to men what they perceive men will find attractive.
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I don’t agree. Beauty is a lot in a woman, but it is not everything. It may be 50%, well, maybe 75%, but it is no more than 80%.
Her profile is very important as well. Of course that below 5 it is almost impossible to do them. Beauty (even if moderate) is merely the first thing, the thing that makes a women different form a man. It is not what gives them vallue, although it is a lot of the vallue 🙂
I also happen to value class/nobility a lot.
I for instance became very interesting in a girl because of her sweet brown eyes, her elegance at smoking, and her beautifull, long, light brown hair. She had a lot of clothes, but I bet a quarter of an hour between her naked legs with be great.
But who am I to talk? I love the ten… And, I’ve told her one day:
“You have to be aware that, because of you’re who you are, the vast majority of the people you think like you, don’t really care about you, they only are with you in some vague hope of someday getting between your legs.
If you could make the people you think like you opt between you and being once between your legs, they would despize your person and be happy as never pounding your lower parts. You should discern who likes you from who merely wants to use you – even if they don’t have a chance.”
I implied that I liked her for more than merely her beauty, shee took it as if I was just trying to be her friend to get into her pants. Cool…
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@Dougjnn- most bros are indifferent to tops size as long as they look good.
Darth maul Perhaps, Obsidian can give an input with regards to black culture in these matters–men braiding their hair, wearing/decking conspicuous amount of jewelry, doorag, etc. Items that seems feminizing.
Snoop Dog started the whole hair braiding thing. It’s just a bunch of men who are coping a rapper and coping each other. Remember, humans are social animals first. If you live on the East Coast you may have noticed that YBM are wearing their paints much tighter now. Same difference, Kayne, Jim Jones, and Pharrel made it cool to wear tight jeans so now most young brothers are wearing their pants that way.
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Simply put, a backside matters a whole heck of a lot to Black Men
I’ve noticed that some preferences vary by race. Someone white here once had an anecdote of hanging out with Korean (?) guys, checking out a bunch of Asian girls. The Asian girls that the white dude thought were hot elicited mediocre interest from the Asian dudes, who preferred “flat-faced” women that the white guy found unappealing.
Same with the booty thing. I couldn’t care less about the ass, so long as it’s not fat or flabby. Somewhat flat is fine by me. Instead, to me a feminine face and slender figure is much more important.
Though I also strongly prefer small breasts, though I may not be a typical among my fellow white dudes in that respect. Perky A-Cups are sweet. Juicy B-cups just as nioce. Luscious C-cups are nice, but they’re pushing it. Flat chested is crazy-sexy, provided she’s otherwise normally shaped and has normal, small nipples. I looove small boobies…
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Virgin,
if she’s a 10 and isn’t retarded she knew all that stuff you told her anyway.
i hope you didn’t actually say any of that to her, and if you actually did i hope you didn’t say “pounding your lower parts”.
you’ve got one-itis and the only cure is ten-itis.
also, i want to test the hypothesis presented by T aka Ricky Raw over at http://therawness.com
i’m not trying to get personal, and if i ask something out of line don’t take offense, but how is your relationship with your mother? would you consider yourself a momma’s boy? just curious.
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There are very few matrifocal societies, as I’ve described them.
Further they were not our ancestral forbearers.
Instead they’re a weird less successful variation among primitive agricultural societies — that feminists have seized upon.
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finefantastic! wrote
“i like this pocahontas meets thunderdome look.
and i am geographically far enough away from hipsters that i can easily milk this look for three and a half years.”
It’s more a jenean garofolo-grunge meets Alannis ’96 but it’s a good look for you. Anachronisms always return to style.
chicnoir, honestly wtf??
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*watch what they do and do not listen to what they say. Stupid fingers 🙂
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@fire-what?
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I don’t want to fuck her, I want to eat the bitch. I just looked at those pics, and… I’ve never felt this way about a woman, I’m acutally quite serious. I actually want to cannabalize her ass. That puerto rican makes me want throw a harpoon, haul her in, kill her, cut her FAT ASS up into pieces and store it in my freezer (maybe sell her to some eskimos). If I chose to keep her for my own consumption, I could get 10 solid meals out of each one of those drumsticks. I would eat stir-fried booty with some plaintains and a fruit smoothie. Maybe grind that ass up into some ground booty meat and make a thick, juicy dripping bootyburger. Put some hot sauce on that. Throw a marinated butt-steak on the grill with some veggies, or skewer some ass-chunks and make some puerto rican ass-kabobs.
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What the fuck is up with people on london servers lol howard wtf omfg
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If you fear what your family will say about your choice in women, do you marry the hot waitress with no college degree or the slightly above average woman who has a master’s degree and works at a large NGO or think-tank?
Not really the right comparison, though. If you “settle” for someone who, in your eyes, is “above average”, your LTR/marriage (if you marry) will be fucked up in ten different ways. That’s the thing. If the sex spark dies off more easily, and there are no rules keeping people in marriages, then … you know the end of that plotline.
So maybe the waitress is not such a bad idea. But in fact you could try for a paralegal or a lower level corporate functionary or something like that. It doesn’t have to be either a waitress or a partner of a law firm — the world is not that dichotomous, even here in DC.
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Side thought – how do you guys perform your duties at work?
i’ve been spending the past…shit, i dont know how long…just soaking up information like a sponge.
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chicnoir – was wondering if your pic is photoshopped
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This helps your critical thinking ability. So that you can come up with things that save time. For instance I made a report that used to take people a while automatic. lol
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Just had to comment on two things:
1. Those girls are hideous. So young and pretty but repugnant. I would have to be way drunk to do them. Really, there is something between the ears in a woman that has strong sex appeal to me.
2. Money and women. Damn right. I think most of our economy revolves around men giving money to women. Girlfriends, wives, mistresses, daughters, hookers, etc. The list is long.
One of my colleagues turned 33 last week, a young M.D. He is unmarried and has no gf. The women in the office all ragged him for getting so old. I pointed out to him that to women he is seen as an underutilized resource, which is why they are telling him he is getting old. By now, I told him, they think you should be supporting at least one woman.
Anyway, if it weren’t for women, who the hell would work long hours? What the hell good would be the money once you covered the basics? Dress well, exercise, etc. What for? Like, the world would end except for beer and pizza. You’d have to find some hobby, but, nothing that would involve big bucks. (Talking straight guys here. The gays, who knows.) I don’t think most women object to this concept.
So, in case some visitor thinks comments on this blog are misogynist, nothing could be further from the truth. Ladies, bring your sh*t on. We love it.
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I have come up with probably a 100 process improvments. They wanted to give me an award for my awesome work ethic and asked for a list of my accomplishments. I gave them list and they are like wtf. I usually hand out majority to all to use for themsleves but keep some to myself. lol
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I don’t see why the waitress is automatically so bad? Dave Alex, and he’s not alone in this, seem to make *value judgments* about such people, and its clear he doesn’t think very highly of them, while at the same time he seems at the least, willing to give the obstensibly “high IQ crowd” the benefit of the doubt…
And yet, who’s done more to fuck up ALL our lives? Hmm? Who’s responsible for the sorry state we’re all in economically-the waitress, or the folks DA all but bows down to?
Moreover, and I’m glad that DA has revisited the topic, I think it fair to say that the past decade has shown us, that IQ is NOT the end all, be all, of human experience or accomplishment. It is but one measure of potential ability, and to let the Mensas tell it, not a terribly great one at that. Please don’t get me wrong-IQ does matter. But so too, does human decency. And the plain truth of it is, that all to often, the best and brightest among us, are little more than highbrow monsters running around in cognitive elite drag. History is replete with them.
O
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greg –
i’ve literally been reading constantly for a good amount of time. maybe at some point i’ll be saturated and then be productive.
i will admit, these blogs (especially the well written) do spark analytical and logical thinking, at least for me.
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Firepower
chicnoir – was wondering if your pic is photoshopped
NO, my pic is not photoshoped
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“above average”
Above average would mean somebody who isn’t ugly, but pretty enough to consider having sex with in some degree.
But in fact you could try for a paralegal or a lower level corporate functionary or something like that.
Yes, but the paralegal and the low-level corporate functionary still aren’t the 125 IQ types with prestigious jobs. It’s a bad bet if I want my kids to grow up and go to the Ivy League. Regardless, some of us have to deal with the issue of family members harassing us over our choice for a potential wife, and some of us would rather take the safe choice of the merely non-ugly high ranking girl over the hot sexual looking yet prole girl.
You’d have to find some hobby, but, nothing that would involve big bucks.
You’d be surprised. Railfanning can be pretty expensive and time consuming if you want to explorer and document every railway line possible. Even when you narrow it to your preferred niche, it’s still not cheap in the long-term. Nor is roadgeeking, my other favourite hobby…
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I predict this is a very short and localized trend: the tail end of high-powered money working its way thru the DC-NYC corridor. Dilettantism and its parent, liberalism, are indulgences of a prosperous society, a fortiori of a society that attempts to create wealth by printing money. That superflous wealth is being destroyed; we have not hit bottom yet. When this particular egg-laying goose keels over, well, effeminate dandies aren’t much use when you’ve got to convince resentful Third Worlders with crying kids at home that you’re more trouble than you’re worth.
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Oh, and another thing…
Dave Alex spends a great deal of time handwringing over what his parents/family will say about his eventual choice of mate, that it could be ruinous to him if he somehow chose badly. I wonder what they would think of him were they able to read his near daily postings about himself, his life, etc. Would they hold him in high esteem-or shame-or be indifferent?
Just curious. Feel free to answer at will, Dave.
O
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Obsidian – Lurker, Try this:
http://www.scarlettsworld.com/
Here we go again. As I said before many black males clearly have a preference for White women or non-White women with White ancestry. It’s not ok to just fixate on the giant ass and pretend not to notice the obvious presence of non-African ancestry in Scarlett and other women black males crave.
Scarlett, Megan Good and others.
This Scarlett clearly has plenty of White ancestry and probably Taino Indian ancestry along with African ancestry. She aint fresh off the boat from Congo or Nigeria.
Here’s another giant ass non-White woman with White ancestry.
There are plenty of White women with big asses, I see them all the time. Plenty of White men like women with full asses. It’s just that they prefer them to be on White women because White women are more desirable than black females to most White men.
It’s not just about the ass size it’s about the race.
It’s silly to pretend all White women are as pretty and skinny as Keira Knightly.
My point has been that there is no getting around the fact that while White men generally prefer White women, black males ALMOST ALWAYS prefer women who are NOT fully black. White, Latino, racially mixed black or whatever. That doesn’t mean that they get them just that they prefer them.
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Take areas where work is duplicated and make it a single task.
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Then when the most important part of your job is handling emergency situations calmly and being able to ask the right questions can save lives. That helps too. He He He
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DA’s theme song
All jokes aside, here is a stroy about a young black boy who looks a lot like you and he has a 125 IQ
http://nymag.com/fashion/09/spring/54331/
PS IQ ain’t everything. He is as smart as a whip yet still very troubled. I say his dad not being is his major issue. Deriding self worth from material goods.
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Yes, but the paralegal and the low-level corporate functionary still aren’t the 125 IQ types with prestigious jobs. It’s a bad bet if I want my kids to grow up and go to the Ivy League. Regardless, some of us have to deal with the issue of family members harassing us over our choice for a potential wife, and some of us would rather take the safe choice of the merely non-ugly high ranking girl over the hot sexual looking yet prole girl.
Two thoughts.
First, don’t let your family affect your choice of mate. You have to live with her, and they don’t. Never forget that. Be strong and be yourself.
Second, while parental intelligence is clearly heritable, you do not need to go for the tippity top women to get good heritable intelligence genes. Many of the women in the kinds of positions I mentioned have the same genes, more or less. You do not need to optimize there. Marrying a woman who is a tippity top intellect but doesn’t really excite you is simply a recipe for divorce.
Now I do not advocate marriage — not in the least. But if you are marrying, going for the high IQ girl who doesn’t quite do it for you is an almost guaranteed divorce.
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lurker
Some quotes from the article:
In other words a man who will let Comso girl be the man.
If only we could sure about Comso girl.
Except for “business trips.”
I think I will make t-shirts with “Once you got beta, it’s hard to go back.” on them. Think they will sell?
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firepower: thanks for the sound advice, as always.
alanis is a god in my country.
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Lurker,
I see the problem with destroying maleness in society. It’s a long artful process which has to be done in careful steps or the whole thing could blow up in feminists’ faces.
I wrote a lamentation about the dearth of matriarchies in the world too-
http://feministx.blogspot.com/2009/04/whats-girl-to-do.html
Sigh. I almost completely despise men. It felt good to say that. This seems like the place where one doesn’t have to be all that polite. I thank you all for reminding me just why I loathe men so much. I feel bad about that when I think about my wonderful father or brother or cousins who are the type of men not worth hating. But you guys, oh, you are the source of all my ire.
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Except for “business trips.”
Lol. So true. Can’t tell you how many ring finger tan line women I have spoken to in hotel bars on business trips.
… *whistles* …
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Sigh. I almost completely despise men. It felt good to say that.
Have fun with women and the hate movement against men that has warped your brain. If you had any sense, any sense at all beyond your ideological programming, you would see that women have always pulled the strings behind the backs of men, by manipulating men to beat the band. But instead, you choose to accept the easy way out of one-idea-solves-all cultural Marxism and the ideologically-driven dead-end it leads you towards.
It’s sad, but the consolation prize is that at least you won’t end up leaving a husband five years in, for a butch lesbian while dumping all of this pseudo-Marxist, social constructionist rubbish on him.
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feministx,
Normally I wouldn’t hit a woman but in your case I could make an exception. Lets put some boxing gloves on and we can go at it. You may feel better afterwards. You may even feel enlightened.
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chicnoir – you didn’t have to go & change your pic for me. it was ok
finefantastic!
it’s interesting you wrote ‘god’ instead of ‘goddess’
tell Lauren I prefer sugar on my blintzes. Like God
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“It’s sad, but the consolation prize is that at least you won’t end up leaving a husband five years in, for a butch lesbian while dumping all of this pseudo-Marxist, social constructionist rubbish on him.”
I won’t be marrying a man I will leave but I will be marrying a man and that’s practically guarenteed.
“Normally I wouldn’t hit a woman but in your case I could make an exception. Lets put some boxing gloves on and we can go at it. You may feel better afterwards. You may even feel enlightened.”
Lame.
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fem –
I won’t be marrying a man I will leave but I will be marrying a man and that’s practically guarenteed.
This is how I feel (I’m bi leaning les)…
0 points for who guesses what the outcome of the marriage will be.
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I won’t be marrying a man I will leave but I will be marrying a man and that’s practically guarenteed.
Oh? I thought you self-described as a lesbian leaning bisexual woman?
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“0 points for who guesses what the outcome of the marriage will be.”
I don’t have a hard time meeting men that mind my affairs with women. After all, I don’t mind theirs.
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David Alexander
You could marry your 125 IQ cutie and give birth to a child with a disability (e.g., Downs Syndrome). So what price IQ then?
The other fact is that you don’t just get her genes you get yours. Indeed, you also get the genes of both of your parents, grand parents etc. So your kids could end up with genes from, nutty uncles, crazy cat ladies, and the assortment of embarrassing branches on the family trees.
Even if both of you have 125 IQs there is still a chance that your children will end up merely average. The heritability of IQ is uncertain (perhaps 60 percent). Many factors will affect your children’s IQ.
As others (and I) have pointed out, IQ is a good thing to have but it is not the be-all-and-end-all. For instance high IQ is probably negatively correlated for extraversion, confidence, and aggression (a certain amount of which is good). It is also probably bad for game so your sons could remain dateless, but so “satisfied” in their high IQ career. Your high IQ daughters could remain unmarried, but so “satisfied” in their high IQ career.
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Ah so she is an open marriage lesbian-leaning bisexual woman who would marry a man … why, again? So she can say she has a “husband”?
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“So she can say she has a “husband”?”
Yeppers. And I’d love him and all.
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First, don’t let your family affect your choice of mate. You have to live with her, and they don’t. Never forget that. Be strong and be yourself.
You may not physically live with your family, but you still have to deal with them unless you’re willing to abandon them and deal with that emotional void.
Many of the women in the kinds of positions I mentioned have the same genes, more or less. You do not need to optimize there.
I’m not willing to take that risk that our genes may produce a child that’s smart, but not smart enough to get into an Ivy. Plus, I want the social connections and approval that marrying a woman in the professional classes brings. In other words, I want to be able to brag that I am in the professional class, and that my children will have the opportunity to become the people that run this country. The women who are in the positions that you described are either lacking in the IQ or the drive needed to achieve that, and my wife will have to make up for my lack of these traits.
But if you are marrying, going for the high IQ girl who doesn’t quite do it for you is an almost guaranteed divorce.
I am willing to put up with a sexless marriage or divorce and accompanying finance rape if ensures that my children can become high ranking members of society.
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feminstick:
Sigh. I almost completely despise men. It felt good to say that. This seems like the place where one doesn’t have to be all that polite. I thank you all for reminding me just why I loathe men so much. I feel bad about that when I think about my wonderful father or brother or cousins who are the type of men not worth hating. But you guys, oh, you are the source of all my ire.
Suck it.
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“I’m not willing to take that risk that our genes may produce a child that’s smart, but not smart enough to get into an Ivy. Plus, I want the social connections and approval that marrying a woman in the professional classes brings. In other words, I want to be able to brag that I am in the professional class, and that my children will have the opportunity to become the people that run this country. The women who are in the positions that you described are either lacking in the IQ or the drive needed to achieve that, and my wife will have to make up for my lack of these traits.”
DA, good for you. Why is this so hard for people to figure out? Unless you’ve got Cindy Crawford, perfect 10s won’t give you the kids you want.
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Except for “business trips.”
Lol. So true. Can’t tell you how many ring finger tan line women I have spoken to in hotel bars on business trips.
It was a wedding ring
Destined to be found in a cheap hotel
Lost in a kitchen sink
Or thrown down a wishing well
– Fish
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Yeppers. And I’d love him and all.
I pity him.
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I wrote a lamentation about the dearth of matriarchies in the world too-
Black America is matriarchal. You should move to Detroit or South Atlanta.
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finefantistic:
alanis is a god in my country.
The only good exports from Canada are Alias Clio and Rush, as far as I’m concerned.
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feminstdick:
I don’t have a hard time meeting men that mind my affairs with women. After all, I don’t mind theirs.
I believe Chic Noir has a twat that’s just itchin’ for a lickin’
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I don’t have a hard time meeting men that mind my affairs with women. After all, I don’t mind theirs.
Planning on kids too, i imagine? sounds like a winner formula if i’ve ever seen one. best of luck.
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“So she can say she has a “husband”?”
Yeppers. And I’d love him and all.
Girls do love their teddy bears, don’t they?
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i wasn’t being serious. i def. support the rush export, leonard cohen, neil young and serena ryder.
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So what price IQ then?
The ultimate fear of the IQ junky. 😦
Even if both of you have 125 IQs there is still a chance that your children will end up merely average.
The less severe fear of the black IQ junky. Merely average for a black person means 85, and for all intents and purposes, useless and possibly on a one-way trip to jail or welfare.
but so “satisfied” in their high IQ career.
The ideal would be that my high IQ children would have more high IQ children that could eventually continue to rise in the social hierarchy. Maybe my strange francophone last name could become well known like “Kennedy”. I’d still rather have high IQ kids that didn’t reproduce than low IQ kids that did reproduce. The former gives me something that I can brag about. The latter just gives me more worries anf fears.
Girls do love their teddy bears, don’t they?
Tupac, the trick is to be the unmarried teddy bear. 🙂
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I’m not willing to take that risk that our genes may produce a child that’s smart, but not smart enough to get into an Ivy. Plus, I want the social connections and approval that marrying a woman in the professional classes brings. In other words, I want to be able to brag that I am in the professional class, and that my children will have the opportunity to become the people that run this country. The women who are in the positions that you described are either lacking in the IQ or the drive needed to achieve that, and my wife will have to make up for my lack of these traits.
Do not take advice from women on this. You know better than that. Feministx here would cuckold you (on up front consent of course). That’s not a reliable source for advice unless you are into that kind of thing.
You need to be focused on your relationship, not the DNA. She advises it’s okay to be focused on her drive in terms of your kids. Wrong. That will mean jack if you are not attracted enough to stay together. And feministx’s idea of simply opening the marriage to affairs does not take into account natural human sexual jealousy. She claims to be above this, but is probably instead numb to it, herself, because she holds men in such low regard that having her own man “cheat” on her is losing nothing, as long as she gets to have all the lesbian love she wants.
In short: marry a woman who attracts you. Not what feministx, or other feminists, advise you.
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OK, OK, I know. Reading the comments on a Cosmo article is beta, but I thought this was funny:
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Ok Dave, you’re not making any sense at all here. If, on the other hand, you’re doing this just to get more attention, good job.
You spend soooooo much time talking about the horrors of being in a sexless marriage and the like, now you turn around and say it aint so bad so long as your kids get a shining yellow brick road into an Ivy and a shot at Master of the Universe.
Ooooookaaaaay….
Then you somehow make the leap from where you are today, to this almight Woman you’re to marry. And uh, exactly what is she getting outta the deal? I mustve missed that one.
Dave, I’ve said before that its very easy to see that your Dad wasn’t in your life in any meaningful way, because if he was, you would never talk as you do. In fact, I’ve argued that you Mom and the other females in your family hold much more sway, and your statements above, and throughout your time here, confirms that. You said just like so many Women who have completely unrealistic views and goals when it comes to the relationship dept-even your “non date” stuff is female-inspired.
Whew.
O
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DA:
In other words, I want to be able to brag that I am in the professional class, and that my children will have the opportunity to become the people that run this country.
LOL. “Run this country”???
Don’t fucking kid yourself. Even if you gave up all hope of sex and fidelity the best you’d get is some uptight JAP in a NGO
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Pam Anderson was a good Canadian export until she expired
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i wasn’t being serious. i def. support the rush export, leonard cohen, neil young and serena ryder.
Ah, I forgot about Cohen. Good catch.
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Also Dave,
You do know that the chance of a regression to the mean increases the smarter the parents are, right? Do your homework on this, man.
Second, I’ve said it before: my parents raised 5 kids to adulthood, none of whom were geniuses, yet none of whom went to jail, got on welfare, or had scads of kids while still in highschool; three of em are married themselves. And my parents were solidly Working Class.
Care to explain?
O
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You do know that the chance of a regression to the mean increases the smarter the parents are, right? Do your homework on this, man.
I know. He’s became a male hypergamist. Ugh. Female indoctrination.
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“You do know that the chance of a regression to the mean increases the smarter the parents are, right? ”
Depends on the parents.
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novaseeker wrote:
And feministx’s idea of simply opening the marriage to affairs does not take into account natural human sexual jealousy. She claims to be above this, but is probably instead numb to it, herself, because she holds men in such low regard that having her own man “cheat” on her is losing nothing, as long as she gets to have all the lesbian love she wants.
Did you just take a radical feminist at her word?
You know, I heard they want equality, so maybe we really don’t have that different a point of view than them.
If we just got together, and talked, then I think we could work things out….
We really are just the same, inside…..
They believe it, why can’t we too?
I’m sure that if her husband wasn’t jealous about her affairs, then she wouldn’t be jealous about her affairs either. And as long as he didn’t cheat on her, she would agree with him not cheating on her.
Equality. Balance. Love. A hundred doves flying away into a beautiful rainbow sunset by a gumdrop river with candy-cane trees!
It’s so beautiful!
[That said, if she was willing to videotape her lesbian sex I think some guys would be more understanding. Not me, but some guys.]
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You do know that the chance of a regression to the mean increases the smarter the parents are, right? Do your homework on this, man.
I’m well aware of this, but I’m willing to bet on the high IQ woman being the saviour. I don’t have much choice.
Care to explain?
I must admit that your parents did a great job in ensuring that your siblings and you didn’t become members of a failed underclass, but I want my kids to become members of the upper class.
Even if you gave up all hope of sex and fidelity the best you’d get is some uptight JAP in a NGO
That career pays six figures right?
Ok Dave, you’re not making any sense at all here.
If I’m married to an average girl with average kids, then I wouldn’t put up with a sexless marriage. If I’m married to somebody who can turn my genetic spawn into gods, then I’ll put up with it because it’s the sacrifice one makes to ensure their children can have the best opportunities.
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“exactly what is your complaint with this blog and its commenters.”
Nothing. Tis why I read. But none of you have proven my theories wrong. You just sit there and claim that you really prefer women that you think are hot for purposes of sex.
no kidding.
“If I’m married to somebody who can turn my genetic spawn into gods, then I’ll put up with it because it’s the sacrifice one makes to ensure their children can have the best opportunities.”
Wow. I admire you. Though I myself couldn’t deal with a sexless marriage.
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Well, unless I was getting the sex elsewhere, I mean.
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That career pays six figures right?
I don’t know. I doubt it. But you sure as shit aint gonna get it going on as you always have.
Have you made any changes yet?
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Well, unless I was getting the sex elsewhere, I mean.
Whooop there it is.
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dam yea
And she didn’t want to be equal to a man in a boxing ring.
What is wrong with feminists?
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What’s so important about the upper class, DA?
I agree with Bhetti about this, though; if you have kids, you ought to go into it prepared to love them for who they actually are, not what you hope they’ll represent to the outside world.
Anyway, the husband asks, “Whatcha reading about now?”
Me: “The internet wants to know if women have souls.”
Him: “Hmf. Debatable.”
Me: “But we don’t, we can’t go to hell, right?”
Him: “Bitches never lose.”
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“And she didn’t want to be equal to a man in a boxing ring.”
Doesn’t boxing have weight classes? How do you think Steven Hawking would fare in a boxing match? Is he not a man?
I can’t even believe I am replying to you, you’re so lame. Physical might is not the measure of a man even by conventional male standards.
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In any case, this has the positive side effect that there will be female producers. Human survival is much more hardier than believed.
And no men needed at all. Perfect. Enjoy your utopia.
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You just sit there and claim that you really prefer women that you think are hot for purposes of sex.
Why do you doubt this, again?
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I agree with Bhetti about this, though; if you have kids, you ought to go into it prepared to love them for who they actually are, not what you hope they’ll represent to the outside world.
DA would be like the father of that kid genius in Magnolia.
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I’ll let you fight my woman then just to prove that empowered american woman are not empowered at all. I guarrentee she ways less than you.
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If we can get him going, the Great Society will be history in three decades.
I like the Great Society. It built WMATA Metrorail, America’s Subway. 🙂
What’s so important about the upper class, DA?
They’re the closest that we have to gods on earth.
if you have kids, you ought to go into it prepared to love them for who they actually are, not what you hope they’ll represent to the outside world.
Remember, my potential children are black, and thus, what they’ll represent to the outside world is important. Higher class and whiter children ensure that they’ll be spared of being viewed as a part of the useless segment of our population. Plus, having children doesn’t simply make one immortal. Having children that help run the world is what allows your last name and legacy to live on forever because people will remember it. Nobody remembers the bland children of the middle class or the faceless children of the underclass.
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” I guarrentee she ways less than you.”
I weigh 97 lbs. Honestly. And I’m not interested in fighting.
“Why do you doubt this, again?”
I don’t. It’s obvious. But I think what men think is hot is not all that objective and innate. I mean, apparently many guys think Gisele is hot. She looks like a man in drag.
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Feministx,
My question is this: do these GOOD south asian men, your father, brother and cousins, know about your lesbian tendencies? If not, how will they react? More importantly, what do you think they will say when you are not around?
Your family must be pretty fresh off the boat; you must be lying to them about your sexual preference. Why else would a lesbian marry a man? Its absurd.
Everyone here supports your pussy eating; we’d even read your blog if you posted video clips of yourself with your face in some snatch. So why are we the bad guys? Would your brother enjoy watching you eat some snatch? No. Would your cousins?
The real men here will incinerate you carefully constructed women’s studies curriculum with painful truths. But if you can survive this crucible with your ideals intact, you will be better for it.
Hope you stick around!
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You do understand if woman become equal there will be no weight classes and it will become no big deal to beat the crap out of a woman right.
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I can’t even believe I am replying to you, you’re so lame. Physical might is not the measure of a man even by conventional male standards.
Because you have emasculated it.
But in any case, men, this is a classic example of female shaming language in real time. If you disagree, you are lame, which is to say, very unworthy of sexual interest. And yet the same harridan will decry our own emphasis on female sexual power.
Pay no heed to what they say, only watch what they do, men.
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Be the same punching a woman in the face for living as punching a guy in the face for living. That is what you want right.
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I don’t think y’all are arguing with an actual woman.
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Where a husband beating his wife is the same as a woman beating a man right now.
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I don’t. It’s obvious. But I think what men think is hot is not all that objective and innate. I mean, apparently many guys think Gisele is hot. She looks like a man in drag.
She is … too masc for me as well. But still a very pretty face. I mean no man would say she is not hot. But some would say 8, 9 or 10. There is variance in the 8-10 range to be sure, more consensus around 7. But still. The consensus is mostly there, provided we allow for ethno-cultural preferences, as Obsidian has well explained.
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Look, DA, I’m sympathetic to the class anxieties of middle-class blacks, but lord knows there’s a lot of ground to be had between “underclass hoodlum” and “Barack Obama.”
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“My question is this: do these GOOD south asian men, your father, brother and cousins, know about your lesbian tendencies? If not, how will they react? More importantly, what do you think they will say when you are not around?
Your family must be pretty fresh off the boat; you must be lying to them about your sexual preference. Why else would a lesbian marry a man? Its absurd.”
They don’t know. I tried to tell my mother and she said I was confused.
Why shouldn’t I marry a man? I rarely am attracted to them, but I am only looking for one husband. I will marry a man I am attracted to and can love. I am not interested in making myself socially ostracized by coming out of the closet to people in general.
“Everyone here supports your pussy eating; we’d even read your blog if you posted video clips of yourself with your face in some snatch. So why are we the bad guys? Would your brother enjoy watching you eat some snatch? No. Would your cousins?”
I don’t like being video taped. Privacy issues.
“The real men here will incinerate you carefully constructed women’s studies curriculum with painful truths. But if you can survive this crucible with your ideals intact, you will be better for it.”
You think? You’ve already forgotten. I’m a member of the complex gender. Not so easy to outwit. I know a lot more about men and gender than you think.
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“I don’t think y’all are arguing with an actual woman.”
Why do you think this?
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Holy crap, that Scarlett site is… eye-opening. Especially her old site.
Here I thought I’d seen the whole gamut of possible female shapes. It’s so far out that it’s almost alien. You never see something like that at the gym, or the park, or the office.
It’s like she is a perfect abstraction of “Booty.”
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@feministx:
let’s try this. the following exerpt from your post on beauty lies at the heart of your misconception:
… we have boys being boys and fixating on the meaning of a status ranking of women, Maxim’s hottest 100. Rankings that try to define the top most desirable women in the world are extremely popular with men because it tells them exactly what society defines as beauty.
saying that men look at maxim’s top 100 to tell us what society defines as beautiful is like saying that BCS rankings are popular with men because they tell us who society defines as the best football team. at best, your argument is a tautology that says nothing particularly profound. at worst, your it is simply not true.
men who look at and discuss maxim’s hottest 100 aren’t looking for social cues about what’s beautiful. men like numbers. we like to quantify things, because it helps us compete and gives us something to argue over. here’s the important part: no matter what the numbers, or “society”, say, most men don’t just all of a sudden abandon their allegiences. if bob thinks selma hayek is the hottest piece of ass on six continents and maxim ranks scarlett johanson above her, bob doesn’t all of a sudden decide that johanson is hotter.
your problem, and this is directly related to your feminism, is that you do not recognize the fundamental differences in the way that most men percieve attractiveness from the way most women percieve it. men simply care less about social cues than women. when a man wishes to make himself more attractive to women, he should work on improving his social status (i.e try to be the coolest guy in the room). when a woman wants to make herself more attractive to men, she should work on her physical appearance (i.e. try to be the hottest woman in the room).
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It’s the blog, darling. Making it pink doesn’t make it feminine.
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Your marriage will not work out feminist because you will hate any man who is beneath you and you will only marry a man beneath you. You may deball him just be carefull about crossing his threshold.
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Feminstx —
Your Father, cousins, and brother are not much different than the men here. Guaranteed they edit what they think of women and the current culture around you.
Moreover, the men you object to are not going away. As you age out of attractiveness they won’t give a damn about you, one way or another. Why would they?
Men without ties to a society don’t care about it. And no, female co-workers and friends are not enough.
Despise men all you like. They are not going away. And when you need them the most they will be there the least for you or women like you. Unless they are tied by marriage and children to society. But hey, indulge in Matriarchy fantasies.
Bottom line: Alpha Male and Female sexuality must be controlled and constrained to preserve a nuclear family society. [Joe Average’s sexuality doesn’t, not because they’re morally superior but because women don’t much want them unless constrained.]
Your rather unusual arrangements *might* work for you. As a social policy it’s a total disaster. Somehow I don’t see how the jealousy gene got eradicated. Your arrangement is certainly going to produce messed up kids. It’s a horror shop for children. Even if it works for you it won’t for kids.
Newsflash: Marriage is NOT ABOUT YOU. It never has been. It never will be. IT’s about KIDS. [This btw is why I loath SWPL yuppies, selfish, selfish, selfish. Women exhibit it more, because society caters to their selfish princess attitudes, but men have it in ways just as bad.]
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“I’m a member of the complex gender.”
You’re a tranny?
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Not to trash out Scarlett, or Obsidian, of course.
Hell, I never see women who resemble Gisele Bundchen in the locker room or the post office, either, but it’s easy to get inured to their particular brand of abstracted ideal beauty.
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Why shouldn’t I marry a man? I rarely am attracted to them, but I am only looking for one husband. I will marry a man I am attracted to and can love. I am not interested in making myself socially ostracized by coming out of the closet to people in general.
So you are basically using a man so that you can assuage your own cultural dissonance?
An honest lesbian would have no interest in marrying a man. You will be enslaving a man to your own cultural expectations, while dragging him into your closet. That is immoral and unethical. No matter how much you may be “somewhat attracted to him, in spite of the fact that he is a man”.
Men deserve better than lesbians as wives.
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there have been many on this board try to eradicate the inconvenient truth that men don’t have a relatively objective standard for female beauty.
perhaps there’s an argument for beauty’s subjectiveness, but those who support it only offer some variation of the “don’t judge a book by its cover” PC BS they were taught as children, or they offer the relatively few exceptions to the rule.
attraction to an objective set of traits is as old as time, for all species. the burden of proof to the subjective nature of attraction is yours, you PC-shackled solipsists.
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“Moreover, the men you object to are not going away. As you age out of attractiveness they won’t give a damn about you, one way or another. Why would they?”
They won’t give a damn no matter what my personality is. Which is why I may as well continue to detest them. Doesn’t lose me any sexual interest from men. You go for looks, remember?
“Alpha Male and Female sexuality must be controlled and constrained to preserve a nuclear family society”
I quite support the idea of society employing some artificial mechanism to constrain “alpha male” sexuality. But I don’t think that alpha male sexuality in the sense it is used on this blog is really dangerous. Just a nuisance.
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Newsflash: Marriage is NOT ABOUT YOU. It never has been. It never will be. IT’s about KIDS.
Of course. But for x here it is about her image to her family. She has the south asian expectation fulfilling “husband” whom she “loves” while she is fucking other women. All a facade.
And she thinks her kids are better for it — not so contrained by patriarchal values like monogamy. And yet when sexual jealousy hits them like the natural 2×4 that it is, they will hate her with every cell in their bodies for deceiving them about its absolute, genetically-determined, reality.
Sad times ahead for x, her “husband” (really manslave), and children — by him or other lovers.
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I’m hungry. Dieting is a huge pain in the ass. Or a pain in the huge ass. Either way, a pain.
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Why is it an inconvenient truth that men have an objective standard for female beauty? So what if you think she’s pretty?
I personally couldn’t stomach the idea of sleeping with someone I despise or have significant contempt for, and I find that a hard idea to accept for male sexuality. Still, the problem (for a male) is if a male associates beauty with personality, and does more than just sleep with the woman based predominantly on her looks.
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I quite support the idea of society employing some artificial mechanism to constrain “alpha male” sexuality.
Here comes the future men. Openly stated.
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Bhetti,
You say that I generalise my Brothas; let’s put that to the test:
Dave Alex…
You have the choice of one of the following, purely on the basis of her physical appearance now…
Pamela Anderson in her utmost prime
Or…
Scarlett the Booty
Who do you choose?
Also, Bhetti:
I invite you to take photos of each, and poll some Black Brit Brothas, and please report back the results.
Thank you.
O
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“I quite support the idea of society employing some artificial mechanism to constrain “alpha male” sexuality. ”
there is, it’s called marriage. where the hell have you been?
you seem smart, i figured you’d have known that.
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omw: prolonged healthy diet/excercise > dieting, although quite difficult to implement with kids/work. I personally have had a whole jar of nutella within a couple of days and by rights, I should gain weight. Nothing, though. I don’t think I can get away this when older.
Does more fat get deposited around abdomen preferentially, as we age?
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lol chuck Ain’t that the truth.
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I wasted some good years on a marriage.
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“there is, it’s called marriage. where the hell have you been?”
It only works when monogamy and chastity are both enforced. Marriage when people can cheat and get away with it does nothing.
No, we need something else. Marriage couldn’t do the trick after birth control and paternity tests.
But what we have now in the world is pretty good. Women can bone the alphas without having to carry their babies, thereby eliminating the functional use of being an alpha.
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Not quite old enough to know, B. My waistline ain’t what it used to be, but having three kids in four years will do that.
God, I used to get away with dietary murder when I was 19 or 20. LOL. Nutella!
Enjoy it while it lasts!
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But what we have now in the world is pretty good. Women can bone the alphas without having to carry their babies, thereby eliminating the functional use of being an alpha.
Why marriage needs to be smashed.
Pay attention men.
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O: I don’t have access to enough of ’em. But that’s a fair experiment actually. This’ll be interesting!
It’d be nice if you’re always clear about which part of being black you’re talking about: black culture or black genetics.
Gunny: I’m sure you had good moments and ones you learned important lessons from. It’s completely ridiculous that people talk about spending time together as a waste of time, as soon as that time ends.
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FmX is a MAN, baby! S/he’s doing it for the lulz.
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You have the choice of one of the following, purely on the basis of her physical appearance now…
Presuming that this is for a short-term relationship, in theory, both will do, but I’d lean a bit toward Pam but that’s because Pam she looks better than Scarlett and her ass is a bit too big for my tastes. If Scarlett’s face was a bit better, then I’d lean toward her.
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I think we need to compare DA’s response to a white control group. Any takers?
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Aren’t we all where trying to find meaning in a life that has no meaning. The end is death.
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“””””””””””omw
FmX is a MAN, baby! S/he’s doing it for the lulz.””””””””””
Maybe bone the alphas was kind of funny. Maybe she is like kthul fucking guys with a dildo.
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feministx:
no, i’m saying that marriage has eradicated alpha male sexuality, at least compared to what it used to be.
marriage has leveled the playing field for beta males, to the detriment of alphas.
the fact that women want to fuck alphas means that this artificial mechanism isn’t completely efficient at eradicating alpha sexuality, but it has done a lot of the heavy lifting.
all of these discussions about alpha male/beta male start ratcheting up in my head to the point where i’m starting to realize the ideals that nietzsche and rand may have had in mind. our existence is a “will to power” in nietzsche’s words. “social darwinism” and all of that mixed with rand’s “objectivism”. we are born into a set structure. this structure dictates that a few men will receive the lion’s share of the attraction from women. marriage is merely a societal speed bump. rather it’s a mask of our true nature and will. it can’t be covered indefinitely as society will soon break down like a radioactive compound into its base element.
a MAN like david alexander knows this even though many don’t. he has accepted this structure, and he doesn’t want to do the head-stepping involved and the uncertainty of rising to the top.
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“we are born into a set structure. this structure dictates that a few men will receive the lion’s share of the attraction from women. ”
That’s not really true. There isn’t some finite quantity of attention from women. Even if more women desire the alpha, it doesn’t prevent some women from desiring the betas or some women from desiring both or desiring both for different purposes.
Female attention is not doled out on a power law basis- that’s a male mental structure.
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Bhetti,
I think you’re idea wrt DA’s reply to my Scarlett/Pam Anderson is interesting indeed. Sounds good!
As for my “culture/genetics” comments, I don’t look at it that way. Maybe I should, but I’m usually speaking from my own perspective, which is born of my experience as part of a larger group. DA’s experience is vastly different from mine in many ways, not the least of which being culturally-he’s all too quick to point that he’s Haitian, while at the same time he’s deeply ashamed of it. My paternal experience w/my father is world’s away different from my own. And so on.
You see, I don’t accept that in order to be a successful American, I must deny my African heritage or our unique ways and modes of expression and “being”; Dave feels that these things, even as a Haitian immigrant if you will, is a literal black mark against him.
Indeed, in many ways, in real terms I and my family have done more, at least as much, as he and his family have done, insofar as living and achieving the American Dream-and let’s be clear, my people were behind the Eight Ball in ways that were and are alien to Dave and his peeps. I can look back on my life and say that I’ve made something of myself-no, not a “master of the universe” but not a drain on it either, which is something he would automatically assume of me. He’s wrong.
I can’t speak to the realities of the UK, but here in the USA, as we can so easily see in this venue, Americans need to hear other voices and be introduced TO each other, talk TO each other. This is what I bring to this forum, another point of view.
O
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That’s not really true. There isn’t some finite quantity of attention from women. Even if more women desire the alpha, it doesn’t prevent some women from desiring the betas or some women from desiring both or desiring both for different purposes.
Of course they desire both for different purposes. We knew that millenia ago when men evolved genetic programming for sexual jealousy. Our genes knew you would be inclined to two time us, to desire some of us for genes, and some of us for investment.
Well, we fucking figured it out finally. No dice on that moving forward, unless you have a pathetic self-cuckolding non-man husband.
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I can’t speak to the realities of the UK, but here in the USA, as we can so easily see in this venue, Americans need to hear other voices and be introduced TO each other, talk TO each other.
That is a purely hortatory statement. Why exactly should we “hear” diametrically opposed viewpoints?
Separate now, wile it can still be done peacably. From the Middle East to the Balkans to the Orient, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural societies are a disaster.
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“Even if more women desire the alpha, it doesn’t prevent some women from desiring the betas or some women from desiring both or desiring both for different purposes. ”
Sure, Cads v. Dads….but who the fuck wants to be the dad to a cad’s kid? besides your future husband.
sure, they women will give beta men some attention, but it doesn’t change my point that they are held back from acting on their desire to fuck only alphas by many societal constraints, one being marriage.
“Female attention is not doled out on a power law basis- that’s a male mental structure.”
what??
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Wounded,
There’s nothing stopping you from leaving, my man. Perhaps Canada can work for you, its still mostly White.
O
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marriage has leveled the playing field for beta males, to the detriment of alphas.
Ah, yes, sexual socialism. I get a wife who doesn’t find me attractive, and I get to have sex with an unwilling partner who will never truly find me attractive. The best part is that she only respects me for my ability to earn income and not even as a friend or for any emotional benefits. In contrast, alphas get women who will be attracted to them, and will be willing to tolerate them having sex with single women or married women who will secretly cheat. No amount of pair bonding can save somebody from the wetness creating powers of an alpha.
Remember, no sex is better is crappy sex, and freedom is better than slavery.
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Of course its all to the sexual advantage of women.
Marry a man. Sure, for my family. He must be accepting of the fact that I am mostly a lesbian, and will never, ever, be faithful to him. The concession is he doesn’t need to be faithful to me either (see, I am a feminist) .. oh, well, that is until I get bored of him and my divorce lawyer recommended by my girlfriend tells me that the fact that he shagged behind the back of his children’s mother means … I will get the kids. Sorry, hun … I didn’t think it would happen like that, bu Chrissie here is also a lawyer and well, you know, you men deserve it anyway .. and besides you see the kids a few times a month … what? Of course we are raising them to think that it is not normal to have a father in the house .. you are am anachronism, honey … get used to it .. oh, and make sure you send the check on time …
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Holy Shit. I looked at that Scarlett chick. She’s got one of those genetic freak butts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatopygia
This was their evolutionary purpose:
Back in the day before they had strollers.
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^^ composite of miss universe contestants…supports an objective standard of beauty
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Perhaps Canada can work for you, its still mostly White.
Here is the truth of the matter: blacks will follow whites around wherever they go, because their only shot at an above-subsistence level lifestyle is thru the taxation of white net producers and affirmative action compelled by government elites. As any realtor in an unguarded moment will tell you, you have to pay more for white neighbors. The reverse does not apply.
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O: When I talk about black culture, I don’t mean some sort of seperate entity from America or a reference back to the African continent. It’s more a reference to an American/Western subculture wherein mostly blacks seggregate, having their own community, and have their own views on sex/marriage/religion that seem different from white subculture e.g. SWPL references.
As an example, I view rap music as originating from black subculture and part of it.
DA: if they’re too alpha I run away because they’re just way too scary. (e.g. gunny, it’s a brave woman who goes near him)
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“Female attention is not doled out on a power law basis- that’s a male mental structure.”
It’s not the most appropriate word. It refers to a statistical curve unlike the bell curve where the bulk is skewed on one side- winner take all.
Men make social hierarchies like that. They are attracted to working that way. It’s like a law firm where everyone starts out working too much and getting paid less than what they are worth while only a few make it to partnering and then they rake in millions and can do less.
Women don’t operate like that though. They do not give attention on a winner take all basis. In some patriarchal societies, a rich man may have been able to keep multiple wives but that society comes from the collective decisions of men, not women.
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That second photo from FmX’s post is rather amazing, too. I’d seen old, old line drawings of such women, but you know how artists exaggerate sometimes.
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R,
I think you were at the wrong parade, LOL. There’s a few sites that feature pics of previous parades, of Women who’s a lot closer to Scarlett than Weisz. I’ll try to dig em up if I can.
And yea, you posting up her pics *here* just might elicit a “3” but I’m telling you, the number of hits she gets on her sites says something else, R. Plus the number of music vids and the like she’s been in.
Keep in mind please, that Melissa Ford is a lot closer to Scarlett, than Weisz, again. My point? That there is more than one way to define what beauty is. And it doesn’t care what the “reams of scientific evidence” says. Brothas say, that Scarlett and Women built like are the bomb. The End.
O
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That’s not really true. There isn’t some finite quantity of attention from women. Even if more women desire the alpha, it doesn’t prevent some women from desiring the betas or some women from desiring both or desiring both for different purposes.
Yeah so women naturally want polyandry.
Lol.
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Women don’t operate like that though. They do not give attention on a winner take all basis. In some patriarchal societies, a rich man may have been able to keep multiple wives but that society comes from the collective decisions of men, not women.
Yeah so women naturally want polyandry. As if polyandry ever existed — as cultural anthros.
You are a walking hulk of feminist ideology, divorced from reality.
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Wounded,
If what you say is true, Black folk ought to be in Canada in droves, yet they make up at best what, 3% of the total population? So I think you can rest easy there chief, especially if you go someplace like Nov Scotia or Vancouver, something like that.
Need help packing?
O
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Like I said Obsidian,
The reverse Hitler,
I think a song should be written.
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FeministX —
The argument made, by various social advocates, is that men have a direct interest in children and women being healthy and safe, because the next generation will in various ways have to take care of them.
I’m not arguing that you should be “nice” or whatever to men, just that as people argue that men have a broad social interest in the welfare of women and children, WOMEN ESPECIALLY need MEN TO DEFEND THEM.
The interest you as a woman have is two-fold. First you need lots of fathers around, invested in their kids, because these are the type of men who retain their cool and go to the rescue of women in trouble, when it’s needed, and also are more than willing to invest social, political, and economic resources into women and children, because they and theirs also benefit.
And you are quite wrong about Alpha Male sexuality. It is VERY dangerous. See my post, one of my very first, for the case study in why this is so — Pitcairn Island. Or just google the actual truth behind the Bounty Mutiny and just why the men all slaughtered each other (and some of the women and kids too) when stuck on Pitcairn Island.
If you have a son or sons, they are quite likely to be the victim of it. Do you want children? A son? Odds are he will not be an Alpha, even if you successfully cuckold him with an Alpha. If you have a daughter, well think about what jealous Alpha Males are capable of.
My argument to you is that you if you wish children have a direct and unmistakeable interest in a “flat” and relatively even playing field for men to meet and marry women based on romantic love, which means the nuclear family, which means that YES your short-term and other women’s short-term sexual freedom needs constraint along with Alpha males.
And btw, Alpha Male and Female sexuality are inextricably linked. You can’t have all the boyfriends for women without Alpha Males. Women are not dreaming of Joe Average. Quite the reverse. As a Lesbian, you should realize that in practical political terms nearly all women will FIGHT you if you wish to restrict Alpha Male sexuality since you are removing their HOT BAD BOYS or variations thereof from them. [Women having sex with Alphas = ZILCH investment by men in kids, taken to it’s conclusion. Your problem is that as a woman, you don’t realize for men sex is a zero sum game. They only win if someone else loses and they will NOT SHARE. If there is no other way but to share, they either kill (Pitcairn Island, Arabia) or simply spread their seed and act like the White British Underclass or Ghetto Rappers.]
Your only allies to help you achieve a good outcome for your prospective kids are MEN. Your Lesbian Utopia must always deal with the male violence veto in one form or another, recall that matrilienial societies are all pretty violent.
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Of course, I’m still not convinced of why I should sacrifice my freedom in order to “save” civilization per Whiskey’s theories. In other words, even if alphas could have their sexual output restricted, why should I bother with a woman that doesn’t find me attractive? How can I love somebody when I know her love isn’t real, but merely a lie or only there because of artificial restriction of the competition?
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In other words, where is my direct benefit in sacrificing myself to have “fake” sex with some woman?
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David:
why don’t you develop techniques to give her massive orgasms and make her pussy squirt and head spin. and i mean this seriously. O has advised you to read kama sutra and other literature.
if you make a woman cum, more than she thinks she’ll cum with another guy, she’ll love you for life, and maybe even give you a rimjob.
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“Flatter social hierarchies (women love status, aristocracy, hierarchies, men for obvious reasons hate them). And so on.”
No, no. It’s not us. It’s you! Men make a social hierarchy even when there are no women- in prisons or in World of Warcraft. Women sometimes do not make them at all if there are no men present. Feminists also hate social hierarchies because women become objects to them- prizes for the men at the top. It is terrible. These structures make most men miserable and deprive women of human rights. They must come to an end.
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feministx:
“Of course I do. That’s why I am a feminist and not some kind of admirer of men.”
first, what do you mean by the term feminist? second, you seem to agree on some principles of HBD. if you understand what drives men to do the things they do, and women are driven by some certain mechanism to do the things *they* do, why the need for the tag “feminist”?
what is it you’re wanting to change exactly, i guess is the question?
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“first, what do you mean by the term feminist? second, you seem to agree on some principles of HBD. if you understand what drives men to do the things they do, and women are driven by some certain mechanism to do the things *they* do, why the need for the tag “feminist”?”
What is isn’t what ought to be. I am not going to deny reality, but my principles still stand. We should live in a world without strict gender roles.
I use the term feminist for a few reasons- one because I identify with late 70s feminism, radical feminsm. Secondly because I am quite manhating. And third because I ascribe to principles of victimology. I see that women were almost universally the victims of men in traditional societies and are still in many ways in even our contemporary society. I am not sympathetic to men bitching about not being able to get exactly the woman they want. That is nothing in comparison to the social bias against women (even if that bias is driven by biology on some level).
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“No, no. It’s not us. It’s you! Men make a social hierarchy even when there are no women- in prisons or in World of Warcraft. Women sometimes do not make them at all if there are no men present. Feminists also hate social hierarchies because women become objects to them- prizes for the men at the top. It is terrible. These structures make most men miserable and deprive women of human rights. They must come to an end.”
Women become objects of the men, or do the men become objects of the women? Your feminist sensibilities keep you from seeing the other side of the coin. Coercing a woman to do something against her will is one thing, but if a woman seeks to become the “object” of some alpha male, the two are engaging in some kind of mutually beneficial exchange.
You’re fighting human nature. for “they must come to an end” to happen, homo sapiens must come to an end.
You’re using the word hierarchy as it applies to social interactions. Although women *do* engage in a social sorting process (ever been to high school or been in a sorority? i’m sure the answer to the latter is no), women are mostly sorted according to physical appearance. it’s biological. men are sorted based upon social interaction. both benefit from choosing according to these hierarchies for their own evolutionary benefit.
the best observable trait that a man has to offer is his social dominance while the best observable trait a woman has to offer is her physical appearance, therefore nature sorts men and women along these lines.
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OMW, if you’re hungry and craving sweets, you’re not dieting right.
You can have nutella, but if you eat right, you’ll probably be happier with an ounce of bittersweet dark chocolate.
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The G.M.
I’m settling down, in a way – building up my empire. At this time I have a house with a first wife type woman, and the best and hottest little love interest in a 2nd city. Other cities are planned. It’s empire building, for as long as love lasts – which works perfectly.
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The other women will have to settle for a functional healthy relationship with some man that actually has some respect for them.
That’s the problem. Their inherent desire for alphas prevents the female from having a functional healthy relationship. Once a man realizes that his wife doesn’t love him and really uses him, he can’t have any respect for her or any other woman that makes an attempt to have a relationship with him.
You should sacrifice because Western Civilization is worth saving.
That’s the problem. You want me and millions of other beta males to sacrifice ourselves to receive limited indirect benefits. Yes, Western Civilization is worth saving because it’s produced so much, but the problem is that it relies on beta males giving themselves up to put up with women and children that don’t love them. Once you realize that truth, it is highly depressing, and it makes one want to find a way where civilization can stay intact without having to sacrifice 85% of the male population for it to work. The worst part is that regardless, the alphas still win and walk away with the best women. It’s the virtual equivalent of having a massive war with a draft, and telling the veterans that they’ll only get $25 pay and the knowledge that the country is safe. While knowing the country is safe is nice, you feel bitter and unappreciated given all the work you did.
Remember, women in the sexual hands of beta males are like supercars in a town with a blanket 25 mph speed limit. They’re pointless, expensive, and will never get full use of their power.
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Naa DA don’t let them fool you man its not worth saving.
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G.M.
Yes, but it implodes after a while. My theory is that a 1st wife types can be relatively satisfied if she has a business/status/family interest with you, as the source of the relationship stability. And that 2nd wife types are satisfied for about as long as the passion is hot. That works out pretty darned well.
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ok who is trying to be xsplat.
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trying to mimic would have to be
Love/lust/business/status/family
Been talking cuddly for 4 years plus and that don’t just happen.
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Fem
One way to save time in thinking about hierachial social arrangements is to keep in mind that men (ie male homo sapiens) have been nearly always been the ones who have had to deal with outside threats like angry saber toothed tigers and other situations that routinely punish failure with death. Success in such confrontations requires practiced team-work if you are a member of a frail, weak-muscled species. Effective team-work requires a pre-established hierachy.
In guy-land the equation for about 100,000,000 years has been: Being in a gang = surviving the day.
In woman-land it has always been a matter of watching from safety and fucking the winners (or survivors) when deadly situations come along.. And in dull moments whine about how you just cannot understand why guy worry about hierachies.
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Re: Sacrificing Betas
The problem is in regard to the level of awareness in the minds of the “betas” as to what is really going on. I do not think any guy in world has ever married a woman he did not believe or at least assume found him to be sexually desirable. Like – make a life-long promise of support and exclusivity to a woman who is just faking it with you from the start?
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Yea Rum it is why society needs to give people a way out in the form of condoned suicide for those who want to leave. What the fuck do you need all these people for? Especially if they understand they don’t want to be here but there is no sanctioned way to leave with dignity.
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Fem
And no, the world has NOT changed. Success in any endeavor is still very much a matter of having a gang with you and any success worth having (or keeping) means having to deal with head-on competition from others who do not like you and do wish you harm.
Would you rather argue with a large health insurance company as an individual or as a member of large employer/group?
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And it is harder than fuck to accidentally/intentionally get killed on this planet.
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A curious parallel between Contrarian and G Manifesto: they both write as though threesomes are something special.
In this day and age!
Getting two pin-up girls to pull a Triangle on you in the 1950’s, now that would have been an accomplishment.
Going out and collecting threesomes with all the different permutations of hair and skin color, now that’s an accomplishment.
But, seriously, if it’s 2009, you’ve been old enough to drink for a couple of years, and you haven’t had at least one “and-one”, then something’s wrong.
Gentlemen?
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feminazix:
So if I punch out a woman in the street for glaring at me the wrong way, that’s no more heinous than punching out a man for the same sort of thing… right?
—
If my apartment were on fire and they sent a crew of firewomen to come rescue me, I would be well enough pissed, in the near-impossible event of my survival.
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What are you talking about? No one can successfully mimic xsplat. No one on earth can write as I do. My words are fingerprints.
Xsplat above was me.
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Shit 87 I had my first thresome in 7th grade. But yea only cuddly he he he
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Maybe I have just lived to much already. I mean jc how much can one man achieve. I have the ideal of my woman in my mind right now. I can idealize her right now. If that were broken that would be fucked to have to look at.
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Is it worth the chance that she could just be another woman. Is it worth losing the ideal just to live a few more years.
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I use the term feminist for a few reasons- one because I identify with late 70s feminism, radical feminsm.
Okay. So you are a dinosaur. So few women agree with radical feminism these days because they see through its lies about themselves and about men. Yet you cling to it. Why? Because of this:
Secondly because I am quite manhating.
As men have been pointing out for decades, this has *always* be the basis of feminism. Feminists repeatedly protest that they are not man hating and so on, but any man with a decent education who has actually *read* what your 70s feminist idols wrote knows better. But any ideology or movement based on hate between the sexes has a limited appeal to either sex. Hence why feminism hit a big roadblock when it came to sex — your man-hating ideals were not very sellable to the average woman, who does not hate men. You have personal issues if you hate men, and personal issues can’t be dealt with through an academic ideology, as tempting as that may be.
And third because I ascribe to principles of victimology. I see that women were almost universally the victims of men in traditional societies and are still in many ways in even our contemporary society.
Victimology, again, is an ideology of hate. It traps you in one mode of viewing reality, which, by virtue of excluding other modes, often gets things wrong. But in any case, women are not the victims of men, but the controllers of men. This has always been the case. And it is the case today. The only thing feminism changed was to make this control more open and visible — but the control was always there, in the general, typical every-day life of the average male. When it worked otherwise, this was generally the result of a woman not being skilled enough to adequately control her male, as most women do.
I am not sympathetic to men bitching about not being able to get exactly the woman they want. That is nothing in comparison to the social bias against women (even if that bias is driven by biology on some level).
The social bias is in favor of women, not against them. The only places where you could possibly encounter bias are areas where women have been trying to colonize what were previously male spaces. Even there, the bias tends to work against men as the rules are bent backwards to allow females access to these spaces. For women to bitch about social bias in an era of carte blanche affirmative action for women, where women outnumber men in college, where women in metro areas in their 20s and 30s out-earn men and so on is the height of silliness and frankly lacks credibility.
You’ve read your feminist tomes well, fx, but you have yet to progress in your development to the point of recognizing that what Cathy MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin wrote in the 70s was wrong then and is wrong now, and was simply an intellectual temper tantrum. Most women have ignored it, to their credit. Sadly, for some women, like you, it will take a lot more experience in the world to see the folly of their failed ideologies.
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87
They are special in the sense that most men will never experience them.
A recurring theme on this site, and many sites like it, is that men who are not good with women (“betas”) have a difficult time mating with them. And now you’re telling me that landing a threesome is so easy that anyone who hasn’t done it is defective?
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The steatopygian Scarlett is fucking gross. I wouldn’t use her to wipe my dick off after fucking Miss California.
Only when African-Americans (both hyphenated and not) claim the Steatopygians as their own – as they do Egyptians – will we finally achieve Peace in this once great country.
nyuk nyuk nyuk
I would seriously put bruises on Stacy Dash’s ash that you’d see w/ the naked eye
oops – another Luscious Jackson song…
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Dave Alex,
I’m still not understanding something here.
You haven’t explained how you will attract a high IQ, high achieving, White female as a wife.
And, though you’ve briefly explained your rationale for having kids within a potentially “sexless” marriage, still your overall views here are quite frankly, bizarre to me.
Please explain?
O
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Ay, Kthulah, I probably am doing something wrong. I’ve been “stuck” at 150 lbs since my youngest weaned a few months ago.
Which is not dreadful; I’m reconciled to the idea that a woman can hardly expect to have a handful of kids and weigh exactly what she did in high school.
Still, is losing ten pounds too much to ask??? LOL.
Hmf. I am absurdly vain sometimes. Dark chocolate sounds all right to me!
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One of the biggest unresolved debates amongst the commenters on this blog is about the true nature of the alpha
dude, it is solved. It is wishful thinking to believe that because you earn 200k you are an alpha , and still can’t score any pussy that you didn’t agree to pay before.
Sexual frsutration is most powerful force on Earth today. Specially among men. Alphas are among the few who escape it.
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‘Tis interesting that men now value beauty over virginity.
A “9” with a sexual history a mile long does better than a virginal “6” from what I’ve seen of the ol’ marriage market, if by “better” one mostly means “richer.”
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No problem. Not many people know that blond hair and fair eyes evolved due to ancient ice age shortages of men.
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I wonder if a college degree is the “new” dowry. It’s the parentally-paid assurance to the world that this-here gal is provisioned to help feather out a nest in the proper middle-class fashion.
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or, I should say, it WAS parentally-paid.
Kind of counterproductive to come out of the thing with a negative amount of dowry in the form of burdensome student loans.
But some customs persist decades after their usefulness has passed.
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omw
Try lifting weights. I mean real weights where it is hard work, not those sissy 2.5-pound paperweights. Because you are a woman, you will not become Arnold Schwarzenegger. It might also help you in your old age as it also strengthens bones.
I see a lot of women “run” on treadmills while chatting on their cell phone. If you can easily talk, you are not working out hard enough. Ten minutes of real exercise is better than 40 minutes of fake exercise.
– Don’t fear fats so much. Fats can be filling and satisfying, meaning you end up eating less.
– Try, Using nuts (or fruit) as a snack, in place of candy.
– A small amount of fats (e.g., nuts) about 20 minutes before a meal ensure satiety (lowering the amount you eat at your meal).
– Look at the glycemic load of your food. The glycemic load is the amount of sugars times the actual serving quantity. It is different from the glycemic index. Example: carrots have a high glycemic index but the serving quantity is fairly small.
Dark chocolate is good. It provides for your sweet tooth while providing less sugar. It also offers a potential mood lift and antioxidants.
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“Hipster: The Dead End of Western Civilization” – http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/79/hipster.html
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— I see a lot of women “run” on treadmills while chatting on their cell phone.
Thank God my gym has a strict no-cell phone policy in the locker room and excercise areas.
— Try lifting weights.
The one thing thin women over 27 need to be careful of with weightlifting is avoiding the sinewy, veiny appearance in the arms and shoulders. See Monica/Rachel, Madonna.
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Hm. What’s a good starting weight, DU? I’ve been using a pair of 8-pounds weights at home, and do feel a need for more resistance.
I’ve never done any weight-lifting at all, really; the local gym is full of Seriously Big Dudes and I’ve always been too timid to even stick my head in the door.
Am just now getting back into running, which was my favorite form of exercise before kids.
Don’t want to come to rely on it, though. Family history of runners who blow out their knees by middle age and then go horribly fat.
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OMW,
You know, I’ve always been a big fan of simply having an active lifestyle. When you look at Women back in the 50s, 60s and even 70s, they didn’t have the same kind of problems with weight that Women do today. And a big part of that has to do w/them being a lot more active in their day to day lives.
Being active, and being a bit more diligent about what you eat and when, ought to do the trick. While I’m on this point, let me also say that this idea that a Woman that done had two or three kids can just “snap back” to her previous figure 100% is patently unrealistic, and I say that if a Man can’t give his Woman some leeway in that regard, he’s immature and probably shouldn’t be having kids to begin with. There’s a lot to be said for a Woman making a strong effort to get the “baby fat” off; its something else to expect her to look like nothing at all happened.
Anyway, best of luck to you OMW, you sound like a good person.
O
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omw
<blockquote?
What’s a good starting weight, DU? I’ve been using a pair of 8-pounds weights at home, and do feel a need for more resistance.
Should have included this in my earlier post:
Disclaimer: I have no medical or fitness training, … at your own risk … no responsibility for harm … blah blah
If you feel you need more resistance than you do. A rough rule of thumb is that if you can easily do 20 or more reps it is probably too light. A weight where 12 to 15 reps is a strain is probably correct. As you get stronger, you will need to up the weights of course.
I understand your concerns. The free weights room does tend to attract the very serious lifters. An lifting does not look very feminine (the results can though).
You could also try exercises that use your own body weight (e.g., squats and pull ups).
If you cannot do a pull up on your own some gyms have machines that provide assistance so that you can complete the exercise at a lower weight. In this case as you add more weight you are actually receiving more assistance not resistance.
PA’s point above is good. I mentioned weights because it is a thing few women consider (probably because of the Arnie look alikes huffing and puffing in the free weights area.) and it can be good for toning and weight loss (muscle burns more energy than fat).
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omw, Obsidian
Will cosign all of what Obsidian said above.
[ is cosigning beta? 🙂 ]
[editor: yes.]
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feministx is yet another reason to despise multiculturalism and mass non-White immigration to the USA and other White/Western countries; more often than not, these non-White immigrants and/or the children of such immigrants like feministx, david alexander, and so forth so often turn out to be scarred, dysfunctional, or otherwise marred by major pathologies as a result of living in White cultures where they obviously have huge problems adjusting and assimilating to White norms and values. Similarly, White Westerners who settle in non-White countries are likely afflicted by many of these same problems.
But my point is that White/Western countries clearly don’t need even more of these radical White-male-hating lesbians, pitiful self-hating/defeatist Blacks, illiterate and automatonish Hispanic peasants, etc etc in our midst because they only drag us down by soiling, perverting, and lashing out at our culture because of their inability to healthily adjust to it.
Be-gone with them.
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Hey You,
Since you pointed your comments at immigrants (or presumably the children of same) like Feministx and Dave Alex, I think its important to note that African Americans are as much Americans as any White person, and more often than not moreso, if “time in” has any meaning. So, no, I don’t intend on going anywhere, and I and millions of African Americans have clearly shown ourselves to be able to “be” Americans in every way.
O
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all sounds like good advice, y’all. Weightlifting! hm!
Maybe I will pick up a few sets of weights for home use, just to start with. PA’s warning about sinewyness is well-taken. At a normal weight, I do have a tendency to develop that sort of look around my forearms and wrists, just from everyday activities.
Ob, I agree– most women can’t snap back completely after motherhood.
Even if your weight is the same, certain things just never go back quite where they used to be. LOL. The small tragedies of life!
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Thanks editor. Thought so. Will avoid it in the future.
[ Oops! I guess the above is actually cosigning your comment – fuck it ]
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hey you,
go back to stormfront.
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On weights – Kettle bells baby.
Give ’em a try, start with 15 lbs ones, and start slow. Ballistic exercises with them will not only blast your baby fat off (sadly, I’m quite a fan of feme baby fat… in moderation) but will also tone you well and increase your endurance.
3 sets of 20 reps of swings every single bloody day will keep you nice shapely and manageable. Increase the weight gradually. You can use hand dumbbells as well, but I find better form with kettle bells.
Kettle bell Snatches are good as well, though a bit more.. intense. I like snatches, everyone should like a good snatch.
Walking. I’ve been to more pedestrian cities around the world, and frankly, watching people moving their asses around on foot for a good part of the day does wonders.
In the 50’s people drove less, in particular women. Previous generations were more active by necessity, the cost of affluence and luxury is often vitality.
Next – CUT THE HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP OUT OF YOUR DIET. You have been warned, I’d eat refined sugar by the spoonful before touching Corn Syrup. It makes you obese, period. Check out the research. One of my ex’s lost 20 pounds in 2.5 weeks after simply cutting soda pop and fast food out of her diet. As much as she exercised she resembled risky lake in hairspray until she simply stopped drinking coke. Amazing, no?
Last, add a bunch of Omega 3 fatty acids to your diet. Fish oil, or if you are Vegan (for some god alone known reason) Flax seed oil. Wal-Mart carries a brand of Salmon Oil gel capsules for only $5.99 for a jar of 100. I pop them like candy, for some bizarre reason I started loosing weight quickly when I did. It is good for your brain.
Next: on issues of race and culture: Hey_you, – interesting points. But like so many others, you get stuck on the white/non-white issue. People are incapable of seeing beyond this. Culture is broader, there are white cultures so damn foreign to what you would understand as white, and non-white cultures which may be more amendable to your adaptation. Afghanistan is a white culture, if you deny this then you have no understanding of history or geography. The Afghanis are Aryans. In particular certain ethnicities like Tajiks (Pathans are heavily mixed with Khorasani Jews and, to a lesser degree, Arabs, and closer to the Pakistan border, with Indic elements) Many are blond with green eyes. Some attribute this to Alexander the Great, but I believe it goes further back. The tocharians and several other Indo Aryan people were lily white and predominated in central Asia. Europe is not the origin of Whites, Central Asia is.
I’m sorry, but your average American would be culturally lost in Afghanistan.
And your analysis misses the successful adaptation of many non-whites to certain specific white cultures in spite of bitter discrimination. Such as the Chinese to America, or to Canada. The Chinese ex-pat community in Vancouver, for example, is filthy rich, successful, and highly confident. There are other examples possible. People adapt. Some elements mal-adapt, other elements adapt with success.
Is there a biological, genetic element? I see this as highly likely. However social biologists tend towards a certain myopia, just as their PC post-structuralist non essentialist leftist opponents are thoroughly myopic in denying biology, the Social Biology / Psychology contingent seems to focus on genetics as if they were the holy grail explaining human behavior. Which causes them to miss the full significance of social engineering…
Something their leftist opponents understand very, very, well. Human beings are among the most adaptable animals on the planet. Adaptation can take forms baneful to a particular society.
For those lacking a historical perspective, some arguments bandied about by some commenter’s were frequently applied to White Immigrants into the USA from what were then deemed to be inferior cultures, such as, oh say..
Ireland.
Anglo-Saxons literally considered the Irish to be an inferior race and indeed the term nigger was often applied to them.
And don’t even get me started on Russians and Italians.
Culture and cultural engineering matters. If you care about an alpha culture then frankly, there are millions from third world cultures that are quite patriarchal and “alpha” who will answer your prayers.. one ought to be careful about what one wishes for, eh?
I can’t blame people for grasping at straws while the carpet of society is pulled from under their feet, but for their own sake it behooves them to more clearly understand what is actually going on, for this gives them creative options in navigation possible unrest and turmoil that results when worlds collide.
Or they can remain myopically in the ways of their own ideology. I care not, either way.
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question for all.
Now that the SS stormtroopers have launched their blietzkrieg in this blog, which scenario is more probable:
– the PUA blogosphere gets absorbed by the Aryan Blogosphere and Obama outlaws game as being nazi and sexist
– the nazi blogosphere gets game, starts banging some chicks instead of questioning their whiteness and nazis become cool again
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I was once entertained by dialoguing with feminists. Until I realized that no dialogue was possible. They are True Believers, Jehova’s Witnesses, Radical in the Justness of their Cause.
At this point I consider them hopeless and not worth my time. Exactly as I consider all those that use ideas as ideologies.
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“They are True Believers, Jehova’s Witnesses, Radical in the Justness of their Cause.
At this point I consider them hopeless and not worth my time.”
hmm. this describes perfectly… most forums
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“first, what do you mean by the term feminist? second, you seem to agree on some principles of HBD. if you understand what drives men to do the things they do, and women are driven by some certain mechanism to do the things *they* do, why the need for the tag “feminist”?”
What is isn’t what ought to be. I am not going to deny reality, but my principles still stand. We should live in a world without strict gender roles.
I use the term feminist for a few reasons- one because I identify with late 70s feminism, radical feminsm. Secondly because I am quite manhating. And third because I ascribe to principles of victimology. I see that women were almost universally the victims of men in traditional societies and are still in many ways in even our contemporary society. I am not sympathetic to men bitching about not being able to get exactly the woman they want. That is nothing in comparison to the social bias against women (even if that bias is driven by biology on some level).
I read this, thinking it was satire. Then I realized it was real.
The weird thing about x: she acknowledges the problems caused by alpha males (viz, her reference to SS Africa) but she doesn’t see females in any way blameless. Furthermore she can’t project the future outcome if what has currently come to pass continues to exist and ‘progress’ DESPITE people on the board pointing out the natural, obvious, logical consequences. She can’t think a single generation ahead. She’s just a spout of crazy cast-aside ideology.
And just a bit of free advice, X, if you’re reading this. It’s free so maybe you’re going to take it for what you paid for it: end your double life, tell your parents you’re a bi, les-leaning, boi- and boy-dating wymyn who wants to have an open “marriage”. Worship your false gods with honesty. You’re old enough, stand on your own feet. Don’t hurt the innocent.
And make sure that this future “husband” (I’d aim for a gay gay if I were you) is going into the marriage knowing what to expect. Make damn sure it’s not an arranged one, since you are going to be defaulting on the implied promise inherent in that arrangement bigtime.
Because when the lid explodes off the top of this crock pot, it won’t be pretty. We’re talking homicidal not-pretty.
Gentlemen: I’ve always prided myself on defending the weak. I swore to my future (smart, accomplished, beautiful) wife that I would protect her no matter what; I’ve taken injured children in my neighborhood to the hospital; I’ve stopped knife fights unarmed. But if I see this soul-destroyer trapped in a burning building, I’m walking past and not calling 9-1-1.
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xsplat: ….It is to be noted that feminists say much the same about those who disagree with them… but this should be obvious.
For such reasons the demise of formal logic is a problem.
Formal logic used to be taught in western schools, now you can hardly find it as a requirement even in Universities. Much of this is a direct consequence of progressive educational theories. I believe America to be particularly bad in this respect. It’s not just a consequence of structuralism and the ascent of the New Left in University faculties. The roots go much further back. I’d even connect the demise of Latin in secondary schools as a factor.
An eastern mirror to this is the demise of formal logic (al-Mantiq) in Islamic Madressas. At one point of time, the Indo-Pakistani “Nizami” curriculum for madressas was logic heavy. There were often more works on formal logic than certain types of theology. Somewhere in the 19th century this started to change, and by the late 20th century mantiq (logic) was something barely studied in Northern Pakistani and Afghani madressas.
I believe the rise of groups like the Taliban to be somewhat linked to the decline in Madressa standards. I am convinced there is a causal connection between the demise of the rigorous study of logic and, well, the rise of dumb-arsed political ideologies – Eastern or Western.
Anyway, point of order, all subscribing to an ideology are by definition “true believers” – and there is nothing wrong with this.
After all, you do have the old yarn – a man who stands for nothing falls for, well, anything.
What is wrong is when belief filters out all logic and reason, or when belief operates exclusively in defiance of reason.
Some true believers can entertain mutual dialogue, for example I am certain I am correct in most of my views but I am open to the possibility that I may be wrong. If I didn’t have certitude in my beliefs I bloody well wouldn’t play around with them, now would I? A lack of certitude, an attitude of perpetual existential doubt, is weak, punk like, and as people here are fond of saying “beta”.
But though I’m certain about the essentials of my political and social beliefs I have to admit the possibility of someone making a good point, or pointing out something I’ve misunderstood. If this is the case then my beliefs revise.
Or for example, I can simply value hearing another well reasoned argument. Even if I believe it to be dead wrong. There’s still value in discourse and dialog and argumentation.
In some cases it is a matter of intellect, this should not be overly relied upon, however, because some of the most hide-bound and rigid ideologues in the world are quite intelligent. They simply believe. and believe. And dress up their beliefs in scientific or religious (or both) certitude.
Smart folk can play the role of dumbass quite well..
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Gig I don’t think there are any ss stormtroopers on this blog. No one is gonna save you. That is the irony.
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SouthakJ – Dialogue does not require certainty. You are coming from a view that logic without a fundamental ground of certainty to begin with, ends in nihilism. This is a false view.
There is logic, deconstruction, and then meta-logic. Or you could say there is formal-operational logic, rationality that rules-the-rules, then there is vision-logic that sees the big picture, and can evaluate and value multiple perspectives at once.
Your claim that one needs to be stuck within a viewpoint in order to evaluate a different viewpoint is limited – and false.
The Buddhists strive, through various forms of mind training, to be able to be emotionally without the need for a ground – to be groundless. This helps them to attain vision logic – seeing multiple perpectives at one – while maintaining an ability to both see all perspectives as empty, and value and rank perspectives.
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Or to put it another way, multiculturalism is superior to a tribal/state mentality of warring against competing religions, but inferior to a calculated imperialism that embraces all views cohesively into a big and morally good picture.
Multiculturalism is not a sickness, nor is it mature. It is sick only in comparison to vision-logic, which far less than 2% of the population are capable of. And less than 15% of meditators are capable of.
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Firepowerhmm. this describes perfectly… most forums
90% of everything is crap. There isn’t a forum where most of the posts are not noise. All forums suffer from bad signal to noise ratio.
The human mind is not conducive to dialogue, because we find changing our viewpoints to be painful, and avoid pain. Cognitive dissonance can cause nervous breakdowns, loss of income, and a deep malaise. We tend to avoid that.
Which is why Buddhist style mind training is essential in order to even begin to be able to begin to think.
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Kettle bells! Well, now, that does look fun. And challenging.
And they wouldn’t take up a whole bunch of space, either.
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OMW
Merely the fact that you care about the shape you are in and exert yourself towards hotness would deeply endear yourself to 98% of men and almost certainly to your DH. Just never say “Accept me for who I am.” That is toxic. It reeks of female supremacy.
Fem. You might be over estimating how much influence women have beyond their self-evident choices re whom they fuck. You want guys to be a certain way? Then line up to fuck that sort of guy. Otherwise, do not waste our time. Of course, as a lesbian, you are effectively mute.
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and this is why i dont like to pick up women at costume parties
theyll be dressed so goofy and asexual that you cant tell whether theyre hot or not
just like those women in the pictures
ive seen hipster girls who dressed more straightforward and sexier than THAT
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Rum advises, “Just never say “Accept me for who I am.” That is toxic. It reeks of female supremacy.”
How about, “I’m doing the best I can, and if it’s not good enough for you, then gtfo, and all I want from you is my freedom.”
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xsplat
“Firepowerhmm. this describes perfectly… most forums
90% of everything is crap. There isn’t a forum where most of the posts are not noise. All forums suffer from bad signal to noise ratio.
The human mind is not conducive to dialogue, because we find changing our viewpoints to be painful, and avoid pain. Cognitive dissonance can cause nervous breakdowns, loss of income, and a deep malaise. We tend to avoid that.
Which is why Buddhist style mind training is essential in order to even begin to be able to begin to think.”
I agree with much of your statement. I would add the human mind is un-conducive mainly because most people are thinking of what to say next instead of listening.
Forums (posted, deliberate, written thoughts) should alleviate that annoying tendency. But, if all things were as they “should” be, a meritocracy would be achievable.
Buddhism has a place for some, but any ascetic mindset helps people shut the fuck up and listen. If Christianity weren’t such a target, one could espouse Jesuit training.
Lately, I’ve become intolerant of any religious application to secular philosophies.
Even here, where most posters are intelligent, arguments ensue as each champions a pet agenda.
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Firepower makes a very good point in relation to the Jesuits, which I’ve always held in high regard for their dedication to academic rigor and excellence, which has easily transferred into the public square. The late Tim Russert attended Jesuit schools, for example.
I personally have no problem with the idea of applying Buddhist thinking to issues, I think it a far cry better than useless shouting matches and the like.
Islam also has a long tradition of considered thought.
O
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Women LOOOOOVE betas! Cosmo says it, so it MUST be true!
http://www.cosmopolitan.com.au/why_beta_males_are_great_boyfriends.htm
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Tarl,
Here my friend, we are in full agreement: employ the Rule of Ten Percent.
Which is: only about 10% of what *any* Woman says or even writes is of any good use to a Man, at any time.
Here, we clearly see this rule at work in the excerpt posted by you above.
How so?
Please note where the piece says what Beta guys are “good for”-theyre good for high achieving, high powered Women-guys who aren’t intimidated by such relatively “high T” gals.
In other words, while the Beta guy doesn’t want a Stepford Wife, these gals certainly could do w/a male equivalent.
Of course, what they leave out, is that the high T gal done usually had her fill-literally-of Alpha dudes running up in them, time’s a wastin’ on that clock and Mr. Beta don’t look so bad. Hey, I’m a live and let live kind of guy. If its workin’ for em, all well and good.
But let’s not fool ourselves here. A Beta in such a situation hardly is in demand. Nor is the way the Beta described in the essay above, truly representative of the type. One can indeed be quite Alpha and be a laid back type. Both Clinton and Obama fall into such a mold, I’d consider both Alphas.
O
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Obsidian
Comparing the two couples is interesting. Both men are seducer types with more dominant wives. I doubt we could call either beta, but in (the game sense) are not pure alpha either.
I think it was that dynamic that made them popular with womyn. It was the sexy alpha guy that was tamed by the mannish woman.
[They still retained a bit of the sugar daddy being Democrats, so you have a magic political formula]
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Tarl:
that cosmo piece is good….for me to poop on.
that lady has no clue, her writing sucks, and her grammar is horrible.
and she finished with the line “once you go beta you never go back”.
of course a woman doesn’t go back to being pumped and dumped, the beta will provide everything she needs, but she’ll still fuck the alpha on the side or at least pretend an alpha’s fucking her while her beta boyfriend rams his noodle into her arid pussy.
women who date betas know that they’ll never master what they want to master, therefore they settle, and then they come up with convenient little articles and stories to make themselves feel like they actually drew the golden ticket.
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your retraction in light of this chick’s email was beta
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Clio:
In other words, boys seemed to prefer commonplace prettiness to beauty which was unusual simply in that it was, you know, uncommon.
I have to side with Clio here.
And no, it’s not just because I’m trying to get in her pants.
Alias Clio = the Canadian Esther Vilar
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Clio:
You have it wrong. It’s not unusual beauty that some men miss, but the kind of subtle, delicate beauty that isn’t immediately discernable by those with coarser tastes.
Gay men and women will sometimes be able to pick these out sooner because gay men and women aren’t as coarse as many heterosexual men, but even here gays and women are often wildly inconsistent and just cannot compete with a perceptive heterosexual man.
E.g. Most of the star making directors from the classic Hollywood era were artsy heterosexuals. Gay directors like Cukor and Minnelli tended to go for unusual looking women like Katherine Hepburn, Leslie Caron and Judy Garland, all talented and worthy performers, no doubt, but not exactly celebrated for their appeal to heterosexual males.
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Your nit-picking with me, Thursday. In fact, I agree that many hetero men miss subtle and delicate forms of beauty; that’s part of what I meant by “unusual” beauty.
I’m not sure you’re right, though, about Katharine Hepburn. She appealed strongly to at least two hetero males – Spencer Tracy and Howard Hughes. Of course, they were both a little unsual themselves, but they were rich, powerful men.
It’s significant that you should mention Kate. In spite of the squareness of her jaw, she had a very nearly perfect face in her youth: a short straight nose, finely arched brows, large wide-set eyes, full lips, and a high forehead – all the things men say they like. So the more interesting question is, why wouldn’t more straight men find her appealing? I suspect it’s because of her “butch/bitch” manner, both in her later films and in real life. My point is that women’s beauty can become hard for men to perceive in certain circumstances, and the fact that you bring KH up in this context, as a woman only a gay man could appreciate, confirms it.
Photos here: http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums/f95/katharine-hepburn-28470.html
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she had a very nearly perfect face in her youth
And this is why you fail. 😉
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http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/04/theory-of-beauty.html
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Buddhism is simply another way of being spiritual. The spiritually enlightened individual is not locked into a singular world view. The self-aware spiritualist simultaneously respects “the truth” and sees its inherent instability. The truth morphs throughout history, throughout “time.” The very idea of time itself may be a human invention, an illusion that may one day be shattered.
When your mind broadens in this manner, you realize the limitations of human thought. The situations in which you find yourself do not change. Others do not change. The futility of their narrow-perspective arguments does not change. Instead, you change. Your whole existence shifts to a different frequency, and you will find that you can easily tune out the noises that used to bother you, and you will also see the world through compassion and understanding.
This is the knowledge and wisdom that the original revelations of every religion attempted to teach. But over time they have become distorted, operating by rigid rules and routines, falling into stagnation and moral decay. The same thing happened to the principles of love between men and women. They began as a positive “game,” which by definition should instill joy in its participants. But they have since been appropriated by others to disseminate darkness and misery, teaching an attitude of hostility towards life and love itself.
The petty ways in which human egoism and arrogance destroys logic and objectivity are all too familiar. Intelligence alone is unable to transcend human limitations. We should not be content with mere “facts” and “truths.” The moment you are convinced of your rightness is the moment that you have likely stepped over a line to a wrongness. Seek awareness, examine your life, and question all that is around you.
Life is a continuous lesson. Unfortunately, most humans cannot and will not accept this.
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‘scuse me Thursday, but why is it that I fail again? Because I said KH had a perfect face? Or because something I missed in that Sailer article explained something about her that I didn’t get?
Clio
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I mean, if the feminine-faced, boyish-bodied Kate Hepburn is unappealing to men because she isn’t a “ripe” beauty, then why is Audrey Hepburn, with a similar figure and some of the same facial traits (KH actually had a nicer nose), so much more appealing to most men?
They’re both rather unconventional beauties because neither had much feminine softness in their looks, but AH’s movements were more feminine and her personality less butchy/bitchy.
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’scuse me Thursday, but why is it that I fail again? Because I said KH had a perfect face? Or because something I missed in that Sailer article explained something about her that I didn’t get?
It’s a boner thing.
You wouldn’t understand.
NTTAWW
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I mean, if the feminine-faced, boyish-bodied Kate Hepburn is unappealing to men because she isn’t a “ripe” beauty, then why is Audrey Hepburn, with a similar figure and some of the same facial traits (KH actually had a nicer nose), so much more appealing to most men?
One word: neoteny
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why is Audrey Hepburn, with a similar figure and some of the same facial traits (KH actually had a nicer nose), so much more appealing to most men?
Your inability to discern the difference in purely physical attractiveness between the two is telling.
neither had much feminine softness in their looks
Epic fail.
You’re trying to puzzle out by rule what makes a woman physically attractive, but you don’t feel it in your gut. But for her jaw (a minor flaw), Audrey H. is about as feminine as a woman can look.
AH’s movements were more feminine and her personality less butchy/bitchy.
Epic fail.
Can’t figure out why Audrey is more attractive than Katherine, therefore projects female standards (personality etc.) onto male standards.
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No, you don’t get it. I see that AH is more feminine and neotenous than KH, but it’s not because of her actual features. You guys just don’t know how to look. (Have any of you ever taken life-drawing classes? I have.)
Audrey Hepburn’s face was only marginally more neotenous (spelling?) than Katharine Hepburn’s. Really. The difference you insist on is one of perception more than reality, brought about partly by makeup and camera angles used on Audrey to emphasize her eyes and youth via hair styles (bangs, short hair, updos), and still more by the two women’s different personalities and the roles in which they were cast.
Here’s one of Audrey: http://www.fanpix.net/picture-gallery/712/863712-audrey-hepburn-picture.htm
Not very neotenous; rather aristocratic-looking, in fact. Which isn’t surprising, because she was.
Here’s one of Kate, also in profile to make comparison easier: http://www.geocities.com/khahck/dramaticprofile.html
You’re not going to convince me on this one.
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Audrey Hepburn is just about the epitomy of Clio’s “eternal ingenue” in appearance. The classiest version. She’s archetypal. That’s also generally how she was cast. Directors and producers certainly saw her that way.
Katherine Hepburn looks and acts mannish. She was the archetypal “independent” and headstrong woman. That’s how virtually everyone, men and woman saw here. The variation was largely in whether people were or were not attracted to this. She tended to have a lot more fans among women than men, particularly among college educated women of her time or somewhat younger than her. She still does have a lot of female fans, probably including Clio. She’s Clio’s “Amazonian Alpha”.
The men who were attracted to her were attracted to this. They might say she was “feminine” but they’d never describe her as “girly”. It’s much easier to say she’s handsome than she’s pretty much less gorgeous.
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Dougjnn, the Eternal Ingenue is a personality type more than an appearance, although personality (as I always say) does inform appearance to some degree.
If AH’s personality type had been closer to that of KH, you’d probably be able to imagine her as an Alpha Amazon more easily. Her bone structure is less neotenous than men appear to believe, but the dazzle of her smile, her physical grace, and her girlish mannerisms undercut her slightly unconventional features and emphasize her femininity. I don’t know if my most recent post here (with photos of both) is visible, but you’ll see what I mean, if it is.
Marilyn Monroe, on the other hand, did have neotenous face. There are no edges to her features at all.
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Marilyn Monroe, on the other hand, did have neotenous face. There are no edges to her features at all.
Neoteny is not defined exclusively by angular features. Having large eyes, relatively speaking, is another neotenous trait. And I think it’s safe to say AH had fuller lips than KH.
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the chick on the far left, with the Clara Bow fuck me look, is repeatedly fuckable, provided she look irl the same as advertised on jpg. odds are, she’s a beergoggle fuck you’d regret.
the japanime cheekwear is always a trip.
I think these fuckers of femen(c) yearn for the days of yore of Adam Ant.
Simpering, vogueish posturing of a dandy with bizarre makeup.
thank you, above, for topping a thread worthy of expectorating a phlegmatic backup of insipid nattering recent comments
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The nose-picking girl is the only one who doesn’t look like a skank. And she’s obviously putting her finger up there only to be funny for the camera.
You’re comparing a picture of an older Audrey with that of a very young Katharine. Better to compare them at closer ages, such as this:
Youngish Audrey
Youngish Kate
The differences in facial angularity, skin softness, eye size, etc, are unmistakable.
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