When it comes to number closing, the biggest obstacle is not getting the number; it’s getting the number in such a way that minimizes the odds she will flake. I read an interesting post on the blog written by one of Roosh’s day game students, Tyler, who has a novel method for bypassing weak number closes: Don’t push for them.
Girls that flake. Everyone has probably had this happen to them. Anyone who approaches girls and gets phone numbers finds that some girls don’t answer their phone or are “too busy” to ever do anything. This happens because they are flat out not that interested. This isn’t because you are not interesting, you just didn’t do enough to make them want it bad enough. Girls will rearrange their schedules for you if they want to see you bad enough. Once you get better at approaching girls, your next step is to eliminate flakiness. […]
I was putting too much emphasis on getting the phone number and not enough on the method. Numbers equal nothing if you can’t act on them. […]
Flat out, don’t even ask or insinuate you want their number. After this one particular night I implemented this experiment right away. So what happened?
The next weekend I met a group of girls. I liked the long haired, darker skinned girl from new york. She was the most attractive by far. I steal her friend’s chair. We exchanged stories and she is semi interesting. We find a few subjects that are common interests. At this point she has found a smart, unique, really good looking guy and she can’t believe she found him at a bar! But….I have to get going now….it was really nice talking to you….
That’s how I leave conversations. I leave a window there for them to give me their number, or inquire how we will talk again. I will leave nearly any girl hanging. An often response is…
“umm, do you want my number?” with almost a desperate look on their face. It is probably unbelievable to them that I just built this little relationship and I am willing to just leave without an attempt…
“well I don’t usually take girls’ numbers, I have been pretty busy lately….” Then I “decide” to let them have my number.
As they put my number in their phone, they text or call me right away. They do this so that I have their number and jokingly to see if I am lying. As I look down at my incoming call, I am standing right next to them. As I look up I quickly give them a kiss. They don’t see this coming and it catches them off guard. Then I leave and let it register in their minds what just happened. […]
Since I have done this, the flakiness percentage has drastically gone down. A girl won’t flake on me if she is asking for my number. […]
In the scenario where a girl isn’t asking how to get a hold of you, you can do things such as make tentative plans to prompt her even more. You don’t want to loose focus though. The idea is that she should be chasing you. Forcing numbers is a waste of time.
I have run similar number closing game on girls, and I can inform you this reverse psychology method is highly effective. It’s a wonder I don’t number close like this all the time, but sometimes you have to remind yourself of what works and what doesn’t, or you fall back on old familiar habits. When she isn’t immediately biting, Tyler’s advice to prompt a girl to initiate some kind of exchange of numbers is crucial. The best way to do this is to talk about some great event or activity you plan to do in the near future.
Here’s a real life example of my “reverse number close” game (post-attraction phase):
ME: There’s this amazing animal sex exhibit at the Corcoran this weekend that I’m going to.
HER: Animal sex!?! OMG that sounds ridiculous!
ME: Well, it’s not for everyone. You have to be open-minded to fully appreciate the beauty of it.
HER: Are you saying I’m not open-minded?
ME: Well, you are from the midwest. Nah, you’re pretty cool. It’s been fun talking with you. [I’m making a rocking motion with my body suggesting that I’m leaving.]
HER: You too. [She’s looking at me expectantly.]
ME: Oh, right. I should tell you… and don’t take this personally, because it’s not about you… I don’t accept girls’ numbers.
HER: Really? That’s weird. Why?
ME: It’s my personal philosophy. I want a girl to show she is different from all the other girls. If she calls my number, she has stood out from the rest. Plus, a lot of times I forget to call the girl’s number.
HER: Well, yeah, that’s different.
ME: I’ll tell you what. I’m feeling generous. Let’s exchange numbers.
[Segue to unlubed anal sex phase.]
A couple points. My number close above incorporates some very powerful mindfucking elements of game. Sexual Vibe and Future Pacing (“amazing animal sex exhibit…”). Qualification (“you have to be open-minded…”). Takeaway (“It’s been fun…”). Challenge (“I want a girl to show she is different…”). Preselection and Alpha Male Options (“I forget to call the girl’s number”). These are potent psychological techniques that stab right at the heart of a woman’s soft brainmush, and should be used sparingly. Overuse will ping her skepticism defense mechanism and trigger fresh rounds of shit tests.
This pretty much describes my method, and for the same reasons.
I realized early on in my experiences that much of so called Game is simply subtly disguised ways of making the woman the prize, while attempting to give the opposite impression. Trouble is, it often doesn’t work due to subcommunication. One by one I started dropping some of the more “aggressive” aspects of Game and focused more on retaining the power position/prize frame mentally, and letting my actions flow outward from there.
Or maybe I’m just getting old and lazy.
Either way, flake rate way down.
It is imperative to discern signals of submission in the female as early on as possible. Eye contact is the first. Of course, bad eye contact from a girl is no reason not to approach, but if you begin to accrue too many signals of lack-of-submission, you might pat yourself on the back for having plowed and gotten a number, but chances for a flake are increased, and even if you get a day 2, it’s one of those lukewarm, “eh” Day 2’s.
As another example, I don’t do C&F or storytelling for more than a couple minutes if the girl is not pacing me or following my lead. I move on. I probably lose a small sliver of chicks because of this, but neither do I waste my time on attention whores.
I think a good post would be on all the subtle subcommunications that show a woman is chasing/submitting. They often try to hide it, but if you can spot the signs, then a fun game to play is pretending that you don’t notice, and instead of escalating, drawing out the seduction with push-pull and takeaways to make her chase even more. E.g., “Why did I leave to go talk to my friends at the bar? You didn’t seem too interested earlier.” That gets them crawling all over you.
This is flipping the script on women who have long been the ones to play “let him chase you until you decide to catch him.”
LikeLike
> a novel method for bypassing weak number closes: Don’t push for them.
Gor, what an idea. It’s, like, 10000 years old.
LikeLike
Yeah, but you lose women that like aggressive, assertive males.
Here is how in like to open women…by literarily hitting them. watch:
Oh yes, here is Carlo Bruni and the Princess Letizia of Spain…their backside matches.
LikeLike
There is definitely some merit to Tyler’s “reverse number close”.
This works especially good on typical white middle class to upper class American urban girls.
With girls of different cultures (ie Eastern Block, Latin), I still think a more direct approach works. “Put your number in my phone”.
I typically escalate the tension so quickly, and I am dressed so sinister that I get high conversion on direct number Game.
Back in the day before caller ID and cell phones all this was not as big of an issue.
– MPM
LikeLike
I haven’t personally tried this. I do get some numbers and I do get some flakes. But this just sounds too practiced, and like you are delivering a line. In the given roissy example, you’ve only been talking to her for what, 30 minutes tops and she suddenly has swept you off your feet, she’s already made you break your personal philosophy?
I do understand the mindset created, she chases you, but it just sounds to canned. Almost like a retarded opening line, but instead its a retarded closing line.
LikeLike
Well, this probably reinforces your worldview. The fiancee of the craiglist killer continues to profess her love for this philip markoff guy.
http://www.collegenews.com/index.php?/article/megan_mcallister_still_loves_her_fiancee_the_suspected_craigslist_killer_967232023424/
I can imagine him getting a lot of marriage proposals while incarcerated.
LikeLike
increasingly, I’m fucking tired of acting like I don’t want her number
LikeLike
“With girls of different cultures (ie Eastern Block, Latin), I still think a more direct approach works. “Put your number in my phone”.
the G is into something here. Besides, if she types her name, you won’t have the next day problem of remembering it. Once you ask her to type her name also, there are lots of jokes you could make, like : “write your name correctly, bc if you don’t, I would call any girl Maria” , “don’t even test me by putting your brother’s name, I am feeling kind of hetero this week”, “put the accents correctly, I hate stupid girls who don’t know grammar”….
LikeLike
RagTag –
I felt that way about most of game until I actually started using it in field. I think you’re really misunderstanding the female mindset here. Once a woman is in state, you can really say or do almost anything and it will work.
“In the given roissy example, you’ve only been talking to her for what, 30 minutes tops and she suddenly has swept you off your feet, she’s already made you break your personal philosophy?”
See, this is an extremely _male_ way of viewing the exchange. We tend to look at things very analytically/logically where a woman in state is looking at things emotionally. If she’s truly interested, she’ll think she’s special for precisely this reason (that she got you to break your personal philosophy).
To further extend my point, my one rule now when approaching or talking to women is simply to, in my words, “shut off the logical portion of my brain.” I try to feel everything out emotionally, even if what comes out of my mouth is totally nonsensical or dripping with barely veiled shades of asshole.
LikeLike
I’m w/Gig, I think G-Man’s onto something too in terms of cultural differences among different Women, and I too have noticed the kind of way that middle class Whites in general, male and female, kind of go in for the whole reverse psychology deal. Its a bit too oblique for my personal taste, but in terms of effectiveness, if its workin’ I can’t really knock it.
O
LikeLike
traveller –
the biggest thing with game is men don’t believe it works/don’t get it, b/c it’s so counterintuitive.
LikeLike
that is I agree with you.
LikeLike
@ ragtag & traveller:
here’s the thing about game. some if this stuff seems so counter intuitive and illogical that men convince themselves it can’t possibly work. it does. and that’s because female intuition differs from male intuition, and female logic is less rules-based on more emotional and social.
here’s a little experiment that i tried once. start a conversation with a girl; it doesn’t have to be in a pickup context. start it with a female friend. do it on some kind of messenger program so you can go back and read it afterward. start a conversation about one thing and then thirty seconds in start talking about something completely different. talk about the really good sandwich you had for lunch and then switch to what a nice day is and then talk about a really depressing tv show you saw last night. don’t try to segue or give any reason why you’re talking this way or try to offer any explanation as to what you say. do talk about how things make you feel. try it and see what sort of response you get.
keep in mind, i’m not offering this as a pickup tactic. the point is that if you were to have this sort of conversation with a man he’d soon be asking you if you were drunk. have it with a woman and she’ll be right there with you.
LikeLike
The few times that I’ve been in this situation have always ended with us seeing each other again. I actually would say that I might prefer this as opposed to someone asking for my number.
LikeLike
pretty good stuff. you have to be sure that attraction has been generated, and of course the false takeaway also generates more attraction. the best way is to simply genuinely not give a f**k if she asks you for your number, though. women can smell neediness and desperation the way a shark can smell blood in water, so if you genuinely don’t care if you ever see her again she will sense that. Which makes it easier for you to be the chooser, flipping the script.
LikeLike
This must be one of those things that only works on hot girls. If a guy I just met and had a great conversation with, doesn’t ask for my number, I just assume he doesn’t want it, or he’s too shy (read unambitious with a low sex drive) which would make us incompatible anyway.
LikeLike
Nicole,
I’m no expert, but I find a lot of standard game techniques only work if a girl is full of herself, which usually happens in 8s and higher.
Neg a 7 and she’ll cry and hate you.
LikeLike
Jackson makes a good point, we have to keep in mind that a lot of this stuff is really geared toward a somewhat small segment of the female population, 30% at best? Girls a bit more “modest” in terms of looks etc, you don’t need all that powerful a Game. Being good w/basics should do the trick.
O
LikeLike
Ob:
I’m w/Gig, I think G-Man’s onto something too in terms of cultural differences among different Women
Very true.
The way I do things is because of the way women have learned to play games. You have to outsmart your prey.
But in more sensual/traditional women from other cultures, they often will not hesitate in letting their feelings known, it is much more forthright and honest. In which case you can dispense with the cat-n-mouse and just have a good time being flirty and escalating.
Times are changing.
LikeLike
“standard game techniques only work if a girl is full of herself”
–all women are full of themselves. that’s why you have to empty them and then fill them up with your cock.
LikeLike
@ Lance
I’m with you, mate. I change topics all the time with women. In part, because it demonstrates control and dominance (alpha traits), but also because I know that to work a woman into state I have to throw them all over the map, emotionally speaking. I’ll often say things like:
– “On a totally different note…”
– “To change this subject completely…”
– “Did you ever notice…”
– “Check this out…[point out something in the room, pull out a story, etc.]”
– [Just change the subject without saying anything, mostly preceded by my starting off into space].
Typically I pull out the first three or four above depending on context, mostly to subtly (or not so subtly) draw attention to what I’m actually doing – and so far, it’s worked well. The final one is simply what you wrote above – constantly taking the woman on a conversational journey. Do this and she’ll actually be right along with you. And what’s more, I’ve found that the more in state a woman is, the more you can talk about just extremely random shit without any repercussions.
For example, the other week I was at a girl’s place and she was sitting on my lap talking about her brother’s pet eel. And she wouldn’t shut up about it. This phenomenon of “talking about random shit while in state” seems pretty consistent in my experience.
To make a long story short and to bring this back around to the original post – the key is to not worry about sounding canned. If _you_ believe the material will work, it will work. You’ll convey that in your voice tone and body language, and that’s usually more than enough. If you don’t believe it then it ain’t gonna work.
LikeLike
many girls will give you there number if you just walk up to them and ask for it, but of course, they won’t answer your calls or texts, so developing a strategy for preventing the flake is important.
although, tyler does gloss over the part where she and he were engaging in interesting conversation and she came to a point that she wanted to give him the number. this is harder to do for most guys than just getting a number or preventing a flake.
LikeLike
Roissy:
I understand what you and Tyler mean about creating a more lasting sense of impression, but how would one go about reducing a flake if I try to get the number quickly.
Around campus at times I try to get the number too quickly in the interaction, either because I must be somewhere or I feel an awkwardness vibe setting in.(you know those long silences)
How would one go about effectively getting a number quick and reduce flakness at the same time? (I’m quessing this would be tight game, or she’s just attracted to your looks right off the approach.)
LikeLike
What I do like about this “reverse number close” deal is that it makes the Target invest, which is hugely important. The main reason why flakes flake is because they haven’t been given a compelling enough reason to invest themselves, in any way. People who don’t have any skin in the game usually don’t do jack.
O
LikeLike
Schoolboy: When you do a quick number close (such as when you’re on the street), flakes just come with the territory. You have to make up for it with volume.
LikeLike
Just for comparison
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1174342/Blonde-soldier-British-woman-war-Taliban.html?ITO=1490
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1174210/30-stone-mother-feeds-baby-triplets-junk-food-diet–admits-McDonalds-just-months.html
LikeLike
Hey, anyone up for some Schopenhauer?
Here is his famous On Women. Matches up a lot with what Roissy has been saying. I have some quibbles, particularly with the defense of polygamy, but the great pessimist was actually a very acute observer of women.
LikeLike
Lurker, we may all pretend to be full of ourselves, but not all of us are convinced that every guy we meet is attracted to us. Even if (like me) they were raised in good Christian families who used the scare tactic that all men are after is sex, we don’t assume they’re after more than that…and even if they are, we understand that sex for “unsaved” people means nothing but super high risk aerobics.
I have to admit to a lingering belief in that, though not limited to Christians. If a guy doesn’t at least believe that humanity is something to surpass, or believe that there is a being greater than man, the chances are that he is a hater of life or “last man” sort. His pleasure and honor will have a safety switch.
I would rather be rejected by a man whose standards I did not meet than embraced by one who feels nothing for me. Some pain makes you feel alive, while some makes you pray for death.
A guy talking to me and flirting, but then not asking for the number or offering his, is a kind of rejection. It may be happening for good reasons that I don’t know. I have been approached by guys with an imaginary “DIRTY” written across their foreheads. Some flirt with me every time they see me, but they know they have no chance…not because they aren’t handsome or charming or something, but because they are some flavor of player or criminal, and they know I wouldn’t go for that.
Sometimes a guy likes to inhale clean estrogen, like a woman sometimes needs to inhale pure testosterone. It needn’t lead to anything. It’s just enjoying the company of a woman who isn’t a whore or a junkie, if that’s what one’s line of work or social life puts them around usually.
So when a guy doesn’t ask for my number, I don’t ask why. If nature or God wants him in my pants, it’ll happen without my being the man. It must happen without my being the man, or it won’t happen.
LikeLike
Schopenhauer
takes five pages
to sum up
what I do
in one
sentence
LikeLike
what women say != what women want.
Especially when its a (well?) thought out comment post. Read with heavy serving of industrial strength salt.
Acting aloof and creating distance (but still communicating interest) will always outperform “trying.” I believe this to work on 5s and up, just need to vary the degree. Does it work on sub 5s? probably…but who wants to dig that low?
LikeLike
Roissy —
Great post. Lots of good stuff from Tupac and G Manifesto too.
It’s really just an application right near the beginning of the general game principal that you want to get the woman chasing you, seems to me.
Showing how to do it though those detailed scenarios though is gold.
LikeLike
schoolboy
“How would one go about effectively getting a number quick and reduce flakness at the same time?”
You really want it all don’t you?
Ok, here goes:
1. Make her laugh uncontrollably
2. Dress real sharp
3. Smoke a cigarette with her to bond, or bond some other way, like smoke a joint with her.
4. Develop some quick “commonality”, same music tastes or you both like sushi or some crap.
5. Rapport the hell out of her
6. Impress her with some dope plan ie a party you are throwing
7. Hit her with a crazy sex vibe.
8. Have tons of social proof mastery, people coming up giving you high fives when you are talking to her (I am trying to think back to college days here)
9. Be super direct and confident
10. Or Like ASDF says “volume”
– MPM
LikeLike
Roissy didn’t really write about it, but he had thrown an implied day2 to her and the girl’s reaction indicated she was interested. That’s as important as any of his aloof game.
A frequent source of my flakes is that I’ll have a casual, friendly conversation with a girl without really eliciting what she’s interested in and she would be interested in doing with me, so it’s no surprised that she isn’t eager to answer her phone when my number shows up. The implied day2 gives a girl more emotional investment than me just grabbing a number.
LikeLike
Sparks123
“The implied day2 gives a girl more emotional investment than me just grabbing a number”
Great point.
That would be my #11 above (if you have ample time).
11. Make plans with the girl when you meet her.
This can really be anything that you both share an interest in:
Eating sushi
Going to the beach
Getting Gelato
Watch a sunset
Gulp some Malbec together
Snort some Blow
etc.
It also give you an opportunity for mastery:
for example:
Girl loves sushi, but only eats at some wack spot.
You offer to meet her at the sickest spot in town where you have all the chefs on lock down and the fresh Uni is like butter.
– MPM
LikeLike
Nicole:
“Some pain makes you feel alive, while some makes you pray for death.
You a poet?
LikeLike
“When it comes to number closing, the biggest obstacle is not getting the number; it’s getting the number in such a way that minimizes the odds she will flake.”
Last friday was the first time I think I successfully went over to an unkown girl with the goal of talking to her and make her “dig me” and she reacted successfully.
It became quiet obvious how everything is easier when you know what you have to do: Get the girl seeing you as somewhat interesting/funny/attractive, while not being too needy; then putting the girl confortable around you and make her speak her mind and whatever she wants about her, and finally… well, I don’t know what’s next. My friend in the group who was the most alpha told me that “the girls were enjoying us” but that I lacked “paleio final” (lethal shitty talk). I guess it is seduction and that it consists of making the girl wanting for you to get closer.
Roissy, thank you. With game (and I have very little, you’re my mentor) I’ve opened my eyes to things that I simply could not see. Ridiculous clear and simple things. Pretty lies DO really perish. Thank you man.
We fucked up things by two reasons 1) we had to leave due to a fight that started and,
the real and most important reason: The girls we’re talking to looked like they wanted us to take them away from their group. However, the girls were going to a disco that is quiet good, however, while we told them that that disco were full of the people they were talking they were sick of, we had no place to offer them to go. That’s fucked.
My opener was a really good opener: I went with a friend to buy cigarretes to a bar, after having some shots, and my friend told me to be a little away from our group because they would ask us for cigarretes. And then, I spotted two girls I’d do (especially my target) and told him: “so lets just stay here and see what we get from this girls”. He said let’s go.
We sat down close to them and start to talk to eachother for about 30 seconds, that’s when I say for the girls to hear as well: “It’s so early yet. This night is very weak”. Then, I pull my LG 500€ phone off the pocket (the phone is so fucked up you can’t see almost anything) and make the girls see the phone, although not the fucked up illuminated screen.
I then turn to my target and say: “Will you tell me what time is it?”, this while holding my phone in my hand for her to see. I was thinking that once she was seeing my phone, that is suposed to tell the time, I could measure her aproachability/interest in me counting on the way she would react.
She slowly went to her “ass pocket” (she was sat) and told me: “I’ll do it, but you’re giving me too much work to reach for my phone”.
Than I “sweetly” said:
“Come on, do it. Do it for me…”
I found it a great opener. From then we started to talk about how the night was weak and how some “people” were behaving. The girls were surprisngly aproachable.
However, should I had tell that “Do it for me” as part of the opener?
I also learn two things:
1st) Soccer and girls do not match.
2nd) It is not good to put down once and again the friend of the target unless she’s hotter than the target.
It’s interesting, my friends said my target’s friend was the hotter, I do not think so. But it was dark. So maybe it was a good thing. No, it was not because my target was one year older and a bartender so she was “the cool friend”. You can only put down the “cooler” friends. Damn, so confusing…
I’m still thinking the opener was pretty good.
I was planning to get her phone number – eventually – in the ocasion that we would go to the same disco. If we’d go the same place, we would go home in the same taxi. In the taxi, I’d ask for her number. If she would say yes, I’d say that my phone was fucked up and (show her the phone and) so, I would have to tell her my number and she would have to call me. Her number would be registered.
Pretty good close? Yes, I’ve never been refused a girl’s number in a taxi. And I can’t imagine how she would not give me her number. However, I have had 0 success in asking for a girl’s phone number in a club/disco with loud music and flashing lights (the noise of the lights).
————————————–
All I know about this girl is the high school she frequents and the bar she works. Should I go after her, or is that too Beta?
While we’re talking, we had this dialogue:
“What do you do?”
“I work in a bar”
“Really, where?”
“Do you know the avenue x”
“Yes, I live near by”
“Yeah, I work in the bar y, close to that orange building”
“Yeah, sure, we’ll have to pass by there”
I’ve never went to that bar. Should I go? Is it too much beta? What should I do???
LikeLike
you guys who follow these step by step methods are such fuckin nerds. “Qualification, Show Alpha Male Status, Present myself as Challenge, ETC. ETC.” Fuck. Only in our present generation do men think like this. For the past million years dudes have been fuckin like crazy without any of this bullshit…now guys are way bigger pussies and acting as someone they arent, as well as overcomplicating things. Find girl, meet with her, fuck her. Thats it. Stop making it more complicated than it is.
LikeLike
“I can inform you this reverse psychology method is highly effective.”
Roissy, as you said it’s post atraction. It’s in a phase in which the number is not that worth anymore. You are not numbering closing, you’re not taking the number out of them, they are willing giving you their number.
It is also too pasive, I believe.
You have already made the girl so much interested in you that she does not want you to leave her without her phone number.
It’s not the same as getting a girl’s phone number BECAUSE YOU ARE the one interested.
It’s too passive, almost beta and it will not function with most girls.
—————————————–
Roissy, the other guy’s method is stupid. Your’s is great. In yours method, you art the one who extract the number out of the girl. Pretty Alpha.
LikeLike
Virgin,
you seem to be doing well man.
as far as sweeping the targets to another location, *anywhere* would have worked out. the little i’ve read of pua material suggests that this is like a time collapse. she feels as if she’s experienced a lot with you, just by you taking her to another place. its almost as if you had two dates all rolled into one encounter. it’s an adventure, it’s exciting, and if you’re able to display value by leading the pack (albeit small) to the new locale, her attraction for you will grow even stronger.
as far as negging her less attractive friend: this is just plain common sense and has nothing to do with Game or Pick up. you should never “pick on” a person of lower status. it’s a waste of your precious resources (time and words). if you wanted the hot friend, you should have displayed value by making the cool friend laugh…the hot friend would be intrigued, and the rest would be up to you.
i’ll let others handle this one, but don’t go to her bar. i’ve worked alongside young women for a long time, and i see their reaction when guys they just met show up to work to see them. it NEVER goes well.
LikeLike
seth: I see, the ‘fuck on having just met’ caveman method. Interesting. I assume you were too busy choking them to notice the screaming…
LikeLike
… in fear and non-consent, that is.
LikeLike
seth
You make some great points.
“Only in our present generation do men think like this.”
Only in our generation have men had to.
“For the past million years dudes have been fuckin like crazy without any of this bullshit…”
True, but a million years ago, there was no feminism, no AIDS, no sexual harassment lawsuits etc. Its a different world.
“Find girl, meet with her, fuck her.”
That’s the right idea. It never hurts to break it down and analyze it for higher success.
Just like anything else.
– MPM
LikeLike
Virgin@40,
“I’ve never went to that bar. Should I go? Is it too much beta? What should I do???”
If it is a halfway decent bar, then yes.
At your level, more interaction with girls is better than less.
Go there and have a fun time.
And try to swoop other girls.
– MPM
LikeLike
In a slightly related post, someone who clearly has game: The Craigslist Killer.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518194,00.html
LikeLike
So I don’t usually comment here but this post made me laugh…
As a fairly attractive girl, if a guy used the line, “I don’t accept girls’ numbers” I would role my eyes at the loser and definitely not beg him to take my number to prove that I’m “different from all the other girls.” A guy using that line would signal to me that he is trying to cover up some underlying “betaness” by being so ridiculous. A true “alpha” would just ask for my number without any game playing since he’s confident that even if I do flake, he has other options. True, betas using the same strategy might get flaked on, but not because of any deficits in their “number-closing” game. It’s just because the girl is not that into them, which is not going to be remedied by some silly game at the end of the interaction.
LikeLike
cant at all argue with lalady.
if you have maximized your attractiveness, cultivated a personality and have the ability to converse and connect with people your “flake”-rate should be pretty low. strategies or tricks for minimizing flaking are unnecessary when you actually have the ability to attract people. concentrate on being money and making an impression and the girl will call you back.
LikeLike
“””””””””””””””‘We fucked up things by two reasons 1) we had to leave due to a fight that started and,
the real and most important reason: The girls we’re talking to looked like they wanted us to take them away from their group. However, the girls were going to a disco that is quiet good, however, while we told them that that disco were full of the people they were talking they were sick of, we had no place to offer them to go. That’s fucked. “”””””””””””””””
Getting in fights builds some confidence in your abilities. What developes knockout power is the bench press. Easiest pickup I ever had was when I walked into a store with blood all over me he he he Chick was fairly hot and older. I lost but I won. Sometimes that happens.
LikeLike
@ lalady & goldenseed:
It’s just because the girl is not that into them, which is not going to be remedied by some silly game at the end of the interaction.
&
strategies or tricks for minimizing flaking are unnecessary when you actually have the ability to attract people. concentrate on being money and making an impression and the girl will call you back.
spoken just like a woman and a fake. it’s uncanny that no matter how much empirical success one demonstrates with game, women will swear up and down that such “tricks” will never work on them.
as for goldenboy, you either know not what you speak of or maybe you’re just that incredibly good looking and charismatic natural who never has to worry about such things. i’ going to guess the former. any man who has spent any amount of time out in the trenches with women knows to expect a certain amount of flaking. the same way any women who gives her number out in a bar knows there’s a good chance the guy will never call.
LikeLike
Really for anyone it is a numbers game. Good looking not good looking you run through enough woman you will find one to fuck. Most guys don’t talk to too many woman. Therefore they don’t pick up woman. Game says you will talk to lots of woman. Therefore you will pick up woman. It is gauranteed that you will find a chick at least that meets your ok you can suck my dick threshold.
LikeLike
Lance – unnecessarily antagonistic but whatever. I’m not even arguing against Roissy and other’s anti-flaking tactics. The core tennant of this advice is to add elements game to the number closing routine (rapport, investment compliance)…thereby increasing the girls attraction to you, and consequently the likelihood of her answering/calling back. logically if your game is good enough the inevitable flake rate will primarily consist of the attention whores and drunks who likely werent going to call you back anyway.
LikeLike
seth–
Seth your point is partly right and party crap.
Many gamers do have a penchant for jargon and tightly compartmentalizing different stages of pickup and seduction progression. That is rather nerdy. It does appeal most to nerdy guys. But think of it as breaking things down so that anyone can get on board, at least to a degree. Just like learning a football or tennis or skiing sports move though, the analytical step by step early teaching phase has to become practiced and fluid second nature, or close, to be effective.
The part that’s crap is that seduction hasn’t usually been necessary for the most success down through history. It has. Now admittedly, if the girl sees you having huge status/social proof and you’re way above what she has usually had access to, sure then it was historically easy. And still is, as any well known actor or sports star or rock singer can tell you. But if you wish to score above your weight class, or at it, or even only a little below it, you need seduction skills. Since our contemporary culture particularly in the Anglosphere teaches men the opposite by and large, especially if they’ve been raised or educated to feel the need to strongly defend their feminist allegiance, teachers of game have a lot of work to do.
Hence this blog, among other things.
LikeLike
Game is just deconstructing what naturally attracts women, which as this blog points out is based in human biology/psycology and hasnt fundamentally changed since the dawn of man. This deconstruction, performed by Roissy and others is, as Dougjnn points out above, for the benefit of those guys who must learn these behaviors to compete in the sexual market – the average guy. only a handful of men naturally possess game or have the status to bypass its neccessity.
LikeLike
seth -Game is just deconstructing what naturally attracts women, which as this blog points out is based in human biology/psycology and hasnt fundamentally changed since the dawn of man. This deconstruction, performed by Roissy and others is, as Dougjnn points out above, for the benefit of those guys who must learn these behaviors to compete in the sexual market – the average guy. only a handful of men naturally possess game or have the status to bypass its neccessity.
LikeLike
sorry for the double post
LikeLike
I can argue with lalady.
“As a fairly attractive girl, if a guy used the line, “I don’t accept girls’ numbers” I would role my eyes at the loser and definitely not beg him to take my number to prove that I’m “different from all the other girls.” A guy using that line would signal to me that he is trying to cover up some underlying “betaness” by being so ridiculous.”
If the guy has made you laugh, hinted at Day 2 venues, and inspired your interest in hanging out again, if he drops that line with a sparkle in his eye and his lips pouted to suppress a big smirk, you would be the loser to not play along.
Roissy’s example sounds contrived, but it’s just a demonstration of a close that doesn’t mention all the previous rapport and attraction he’s established.
I had read the post by Tyler and thought it was brilliant. The reverse number close can be a barometer to measure the rapport and attraction you’ve established. If it wasn’t high enough, the guy would get flaked on even with a direct close. Like Tyler said, he winds up walking away from some possible notches but fares much better with the numbers he does pull.
A “true” alpha doesn’t care about getting your number, so whether or not you would flake on him is inconsequential. If you express that you want them to call you, you earn their further attention.
“True, betas using the same (direct number close) strategy might get flaked on, but not because of any deficits in their “number-closing” game. It’s just because the girl is not that into them, which is not going to be remedied by some silly game at the end of the interaction.”
This is completely true. The point you are missing is that the reverse number close technique helps PUAs who are projecting alpha traits push themselves a little bit further up the ladder. This technique will yield LESS numbers than direct game, but your conversion rate will be much higher, both by virtue of eliminating the automatic flakes (failed pickups) and increasing the interest in undecided flake candidates.
LikeLike
I can argue with lalady too
“As a fairly attractive girl”
You are simply not the target.
“fairly attractive” girls are typically more headache than they are worth. (Unless they have some “x factor” worth exploring, ie a high speed blower, a dope ass, amazing pole skills, a father that can give a 7 figure no interest loan etc).
Beautiful, extremely wealthy foreign girls are.
– MPM
LikeLike
“I’m no expert, but I find a lot of standard game techniques only work if a girl is full of herself, which usually happens in 8s and higher.
Neg a 7 and she’ll cry and hate you.”
That is because you are not that interested in doing the seven. I’d say that the seven will cry indeed, but I’d also say that, if you do ir and display your interest correctly, she will love you.
Sevens and sixes love it when someone is interested in her despite of her faults, in spite of their qualities. And that they will stand around. Especially fat girls who could easily become a seven or an eight if they lost weight. Just do not expect her to be arround when she becomes slim… XD Pretty lies must perish.
LikeLike
Anybody catch the latest news about Craiglist killer Markoff’s fiance?
“Markoff’s fiancee: I love him
Betrothed of accused Craigslist killer vows support”
I guess Roissy is right…….as usual.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/2009_04_28_Philip_Markoff_s_Fiancee:_I_love_him:_Betrothed_of_accused_Craigslist_killer_vows_support/srvc=home&position=2
LikeLike
seth isn’t too bright.
LikeLike
lalady
I agree with G Manifesto (even though I don’t pretend to his purported levels of success) that you aren’t the target. Unless you’re being modest to a very unusual degree. But I’ll proceed anyway.
Just as girls can’t be trusted to report accurately what most attracts them in a man (since their behavior so often is very different from what they report), so too they — and here you — can’t be trusted to accurately imagine how you’d react in the field to this approach. You’d be in a far more emotion and far less coldly rational and analyzing frame of mind, if the PUA had made some progress with you, which is the premise of the reverse numbers move.
This is true, but time is limited. He’s invested some in you. If you give it and he calls and you flake that’s a further waste of his time. It’s better if he can pull a psychological move that induces you to chase him a little and anyway tests you then and there, making flaking a lot less likely.
LikeLike
Haha… ouch G. I wish I could show you a picture but I kind of want to remain anonymous and I suppose its pointless getting into an argument about my attractiveness over the internet.
That said, the main point I was trying to get across above was that the best game is game that girls don’t KNOW is “game.” Maybe I read these PUA blogs too much, but there have been many times when guys have hit on me when it’s just painfully obvious he’s trying to make himself look more “alpha” than he is by using these little techniques, which is a total turnoff. And I’d say Roissy’s number close example above is a great example of one of those instances. I have no doubt that some “game” techniques work, but only if they seem to the girl that they are coming completely natural to the guy. I guess my advice to all the betas out there would be to work more on your “inner game” (gosh, I have been reading too much Roissy…), confidence, and body language than on lines. But for God’s sake if you do want to use lines, try and make them a LITTLE less obvious!
LikeLike
“schoolboy
“How would one go about effectively getting a number quick and reduce flakness at the same time?”
You really want it all don’t you?
Ok, here goes:”
Damn it G, really well put!
I will just battle to do some five of those. With the heck, 3 would be great. I actually don’t like “people” in a general way, so I only now found out how important it is “social proof”. This blog has opened my eyes to many things… really…
LikeLike
The ‘I love him but the wedding is definitely off!’ signal is more of a ‘I am backing away slowly and trying to keep a composed public face. I’m going to be a doctor, so I must not project any lack of sympathy in a 180 which may compromise my career. I also do not have all the facts yet and need to keep my bases covered. *smile*’
There is simply not enough information to extrapolate what’s going on there.
LikeLike
“I also love my fiance and I will continue to support him throughout this legal process. My heart goes out to all of those afflicted by these events,” McAllister said. “It is my intent to fully cooperate with my fiance’s attorney as well as the Suffolk County District Attorney’s Office . . . I can only tell them what I know and what is the truth. I will expect that these discussions will occur within the next several days.”
Read: I will give them all the information they need to know to put him away. I didn’t know a thing. I am a sweet girl.
LikeLike
Michael Wears a Hat: Watch carefully, the way things work is that it’s his type who reproduce: quantity > quality. You have a lot to learn from him.
LikeLike
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””on April 28, 2009 at 4:54 pm lalady
Haha… ouch G. I wish I could show you a picture but I kind of want to remain anonymous and I suppose its pointless getting into an argument about my attractiveness over the internet.
That said, the main point I was trying to get across above was that the best game is game that girls don’t KNOW is “game.” Maybe I read these PUA blogs too much, but there have been many times when guys have hit on me when it’s just painfully obvious he’s trying to make himself look more “alpha” than he is by using these little techniques, which is a total turnoff. And I’d say Roissy’s number close example above is a great example of one of those instances. I have no doubt that some “game” techniques work, but only if they seem to the girl that they are coming completely natural to the guy. I guess my advice to all the betas out there would be to work more on your “inner game” (gosh, I have been reading too much Roissy…), confidence, and body language than on lines. But for God’s sake if you do want to use lines, try and make them a LITTLE less obvious!
“”””””””””””””””””””
G was totally obvious when he made you qualify yourself.
LikeLike
Damn G, and your eleventh point is “gold over blue”.
This reminds me of a thing: My ten. She made a lot of promises for some weeks that we would do lots of things together but, since the classes started she got more distant. We usually talked up on the net and she’s not being here much… physical presence, zero…
So… when to know when a women says “let’s do this” and she means it, and when she says it just because.
For instance, I already know my ten. I know that for her to realise what she promised, I’d have to be in top of her just because she does not have me in such a high consideration. But she surprised me for actually telling me things about herself that she didn’t say to many people – or better to nobody, things like: I don’t like my new best (female) friend that much, she’s a little wierdo, and “I don’t even know what that is” (to be so in love with a person that everything (s)he does has an impact on you) – and also for inviting me and my friends to a great club I’ve never been to.
The thing is, she invited us, I didn’t go. Neither did my friends, obviously. Does that creates in her a feeling like “he’s not going, he’s not worth inviting”?
Also, when she was in my class, she and all the others kind of made fun of the clothes I wear. They say that it does not *brings the best of me* and that I should improve my fashion taste. I don’t care about male clothes, I really don’t. I know it is important but I do not care.
So, what was my idea? Going shopping with her and some of her friends clothes for… me! Just to past some time with her, and through the way, improving myself.
I told her she would be my “personal stylist” she laughed, said okay, and looked like she would do that sacrifice for me.
Is that even positive, to shop clothes with women? Even if she’s a ten with good taste?
I want to see her again and past some time with her but I have no motive.
It happens that the “party of the year” is two weeks from now: Sensation of White, 9th May (you can look it up in Utube).
She will definetly go (nobody told me, but I saw her in a photo breathtakingly beautifull, dress to impress, in all white clothes, with a big hat and all. It can only meen Sensation). So I was thinking that maybe I should go to that because 1) It’s the fucking Sensation and 2) she may actually be there and with new friends for me to meet.
I also happen to not have all white clothes, and if I go, I’ll need shopping. Would it be too bad to arrange a date for me and her to meet and go shopping clothes to me? (and take a cafe, and, who know, if she’s in the mood, go to a cinema… oh I’m dreaming too much) Any thoughts? Thank you.
LikeLike
Link didn’t work and I forgot to close my quote. Redo:
What do you guys think about preemptively calling them out on flaking? I don’t have the acting chops to do some premeditated back and forth trying to will her to ask for my number. It would probably look like this while I waited. (Go to the 40 second mark).
What if you said something like “You know, you seem cool and I’d like to get your number, but I’m sick of getting flaked on.” Would that get them to qualify themselves by making sure they called, or would it just project that I get flaked on a lot?
LikeLike
Damn, that’s twice. Ok, well it was the clip from Zoolander when Mugatu’s assistant spills coffee on him, and they look awkwardly back and forth at each other.
LikeLike
Would that get them to qualify themselves by making sure they called, or would it just project that I get flaked on a lot?
The latter. Plus it makes you look whiny.
LikeLike
Bhetti–
I agree with you. I think she’s doing the smart and classy thing at this early stage in the game.
If he’s convicted she’ll almost certainly bail. She probably will quietly bail before that.
We’re also assuming he’s guilty. I have barely read about this so don’t know what the evidence is, though I do know the public is convinced he is. If she deserted him publicly right off the bat, there’s no chance that he’d go back to her if acquitted (and it looked then like he really didn’t do it) if he’s any kind of alpha. But yeah, his actual innocence is a long shot.
LikeLike
Thank you Chuck.
Unfortunetly, I ain’t just doing so well… I am learning, it’s right, but I can’t have success yet.
“as far as sweeping the targets to another location, *anywhere* would have worked out. the little i’ve read of pua material suggests that this is like a time collapse. she feels as if she’s experienced a lot with you, just by you taking her to another place. its almost as if you had two dates all rolled into one encounter. it’s an adventure, it’s exciting, and if you’re able to display value by leading the pack (albeit small) to the new locale, her attraction for you will grow even stronger.”
REALLY!?? :O
Just on a note, does that “anywhere” envolves places she already knows and are of a lesser quality than the place she’d go without me?? We actually had invitations to a week disco/club, one of my group distributed to us and the girls, and strangers, but, as soon as we recieved the invitations (me, my wingman and the girls), we all started to talk about how “uncool” that place was, how it was filled with “young kids” and that stuff. So, taking her there was pretty impossible. Although, I could had taken her to a bunch of other places.
Just answer my questions to kill the bug of uncertainty that leaves in me…
“you should never “pick on” a person of lower status.”
So, even if I am not the highest status and know the girl with the highest status will not give me a chance, I should not treat a secondary or tertiary girl as “special”? Or do you mean that I should not hit a girl with lower status than my own?
“i’ll let others handle this one, but don’t go to her bar. i’ve worked alongside young women for a long time, and i see their reaction when guys they just met show up to work to see them. it NEVER goes well.”
Wow… one neill to the not going team. Thanks. But, on another note, she’s not really that hot, I gave her a seven. A majority of my friends putted her as a six…
LikeLike
Apparently, the G Manifesto is swpl:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2009/04/13/124-hating-people-who-wear-ed-hardy/
LikeLike
Nicole:
A guy talking to me and flirting, but then not asking for the number or offering his, is a kind of rejection.
…
Some flirt with me every time they see me, but they know they have no chance…not because they aren’t handsome or charming or something, but because they are some flavor of player or criminal, and they know I wouldn’t go for that.
Inaccurate. You are a warpig. They are probably trying to find a segway to talk to your hot friend.
LikeLike
“”””””””””””””””””””””and also for inviting me and my friends to a great club I’ve never been to.
The thing is, she invited us, I didn’t go. Neither did my friends, obviously. Does that creates in her a feeling like “he’s not going, he’s not worth inviting”?”””””””””””””””””””
She invited you to a club and you didn’t go?
Is different than if she rolls up on you playing basketball and you say hi giver her a kiss. Then go back to playing bball. That wasn’t planned. You were busy doing something. That is naturally pushing the attraction buttons.
LikeLike
ASDF
Admitting that you’re sick of getting flaked on is a signal that you’re a beta — even though alphas also get flaked on (only less).
Also cold logic wins you no pull and is neutral at best, and actually tends to lose you some. You need to be emotionally playing her to pursue you a bit. That’s what both Tyler’s and Roissy’s scenarios do. They do it by talking concretely about actions in a way calculated to play her emotions. There’s no theory or agreement talk as you’re proposing: i.e you’re saying in effect “do you agree if you give me your number that you really will pickup and schedule a date with me?”
LikeLike
G, I’ve read your comment concerning me going to that bar.
Hm… the bar is in a rather shitty location. We actually talked about her. The only motive for me to go there would just be 1) I live near by and 2) because of her. It would then be beta. But I can tell you are right (and you don’t know how much) that the more contact I have with girls, the better. At now, it’s urgent, it really is needed.
“Getting in fights builds some confidence in your abilities. What developes knockout power is the bench press. Easiest pickup I ever had was when I walked into a store with blood all over me he he he Chick was fairly hot and older. I lost but I won. Sometimes that happens.”
Gunslinger, lol. I did not got directly involved into that one.
However the girls were very interesting after the fight. For you to have an idea, they were in a sit that was a double sit. When we were with them, we’re sat next to the girls, facing the bars and the tens/hundreds of people walking by. The girls were also with their group.
After the fight, the girls were in the other side of the sit, turned to us and facing back the people and all the bars. The girl’s group had magically disapeared and they were alone at first sight. My group was debating if we would retreat or stay there, we eventually went away, with one boy bleeding from the nose.
I was into the target, but I was also worried about my group; I didn’t wanted to look too needy and I really didn’t know what to do with the target so I opted to do the Alpha exit.
I last returned to the girls but I didn’t talked to them because there was an 8, almost 9, fake blonde in her early twenties looking to me and my group next to the girls we had talked to. I aksed her for an handkershief and she rapidly provided it. I did it twice. Then, the target came to me and asked me what happened, to which I sarcastically replied: “Hm… people from place x” referring to my group and the place where she works and the school she attends.
I then left with just a “ciao”.
LikeLike
ASDF: The subtext is ‘I assume you’re going to flake’ which could project two things:
a) she is the ‘type’ to be a flake.
b) you are insecure about her attraction and not confident. You are the type who gets flaked on a lot.
Now considering the narcissism women subjected to pickup apparently suffer from, I think she’s going to feel b preferentially.
LikeLike
doug: just noticed your comment to ASDF, we need to start disagreeing on some things soon.
LikeLike
lalady
Have you ever given your number to someone you had no interest in, knowing you would never return their call?
Have you ever changed your mind after giving out your number because in retrospect he wasn’t that great?
Have you ever made a date with a new man and then had “something come up” so that you had to cancel?
LikeLike
Sorry, Default, something came up and she will get back to you on that later…
LikeLike
does anyone think david alexander jumped ship for that disgusting errant wife whore’s blog?
LikeLike
sfer
Apparently, the G Manifesto is swpl:
“http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2009/04/13/124-hating-people-who-wear-ed-hardy/”
Ha. Yeah I saw that.
I have never denied my predilection for liberal politics. Hell, I am already backing Newsom.
And I do like a few things on that site: sushi, Bob Marley, weed, SF, wine.
But a swpl?
No. I don’t fall under that label.
I am more old-school, urban, irish/spanish International Playboy. I mean, my favorite place to hang out at is the horse races. And boxing matches. And of course, topless beaches.
Think Muhammad Ali mixed with Bruce Lee mixed with Jack Dempsey.
– MPM
LikeLike
“does anyone think david alexander jumped ship for that disgusting errant wife whore’s blog?”
LOOOOL
Maybe, maybe…
LikeLike
It’s the Arab horse that’s the best 😉
LikeLike
No, no, no. I disagree with this whole premise: that you can reduce flakes by the manner in which you close. Flakes happen. That’s just life. When its time, you TELL her to give you the number – you don’t ask for it. For fuck’s sake don’t try this reverse psychobabble bullshit in the field, especially the rookies. You close that number with authority and you live with the inevitable flakes. Its gonna happen, and you can’t always avoid it, even if you escalate to a make-out before the night ends. If you’re like me, and you go after the hottest, bitchiest slavic women you can find, you will get crushed trying to use a weak psychological ploy like this to coerce a number. Frankly, I’m surprised Roissy endorsed it. It could work with a pathetic 5 or 6, but not in the 7-10 bracket. Certainly not in Manhattan. You put in the time, you build what rapport you can; you demand that number and get out; you call twice and if she flakes, delete. Hot chicks will not buy this.
LikeLike
Bhetti
That’s just whack. I thoroughly disagree.
LikeLike
We disagree to disagree? My head is spinning.
LikeLike
dana
does anyone think david alexander jumped ship for that disgusting errant wife whore’s blog?
This is a fancy way of saying you miss him. This demonstrates DA totally has game. We female commenters cannot leave him alone, he is unattainable and only would ever want a bad girl… *sigh+swoon*
LikeLike
Bhetti–
Ahhhh. Just how I want you, delicious.
LikeLike
If only you were at least 72 years younger, muslim, not across an ocean and single.
LikeLike
Bhetti–
That’s all? Hell. Give me another couple of weeks.
LikeLike
i like reverse game. roissy’s set is a bit contrived, but i do notice that if a guy is gaming and i’m expecting him to ask for my number or try to make plans and he starts to leave, i’ll totally take the bait. it’s a bit disconcerting once my brain catches up with what my instincts have started, especially if he draws it out a bit, but effective nonetheless.
LikeLike
doug: Yeah, wind back time, move across continents, convert, leave a lovely woman for an unstable 19/20 year old medical student who’s the sanest in her family… why the hell not? Why should it take you weeks and not days? I don’t get it *pouts*
LikeLike
douglas: I’m off to sulk about this odious misfortune so pardon me indeed if I don’t see any replies you condescend to make. Weeks? The cheek of it!
LikeLike
I’m starting to think the G manifisto is Roissy’s alter ego for some reason.
Nonetheless I like the advice G.
LikeLike
@db:
It’s interesting that you recognize that this is a tactic, yet you’re still drawn to the behavior and it makes you FEEL gut level attraction.
Remember guys, all these behaviors might be recognized, but the chick still LIKES it. I remember roissy said in one of his posts – the trial texting post – “she’ll know what you’re up to, but she still RESPONDS”
This is very true of game. Back in the day before I started studying it, I would use reverse psychology (little things to increase attraction) that I THOUGHT would be sniffed out (old school manipulation techniques that you unlearn early because they stop working even with your parents, who unconditionally love you). I swear my ex-gf was either dumb as fuck and didn’t see right through it, or she LIKED the behavior, was attracted to it, and wanted me to continue so it got positive results.
To this day, I still (when making out) constantly pull back. I lean in like I’m going to kiss and I brush against her cheek. I kiss fiercely and then pull back. I always get “you’re sooooo annoying” but I can tell she has a FIRE in her loins. Women know the trick, I mean who wouldn’t? It’s obvious push pull. But the emotions they feel when it’s done over ride any THOUGHT PROCESS.
Today, in class we were talking about the concept of love. I said love was a rush of ADDICTING emotions. Of course all the women disagreed and not only that, but they COMPLAINED about behaviors (game) that turns them on!
Thanks roissy.
LikeLike
Bhetti–
Sleep tight — or dance all nite. Whatevs…
LikeLike
Alpha males date like women.
What does this mean?
It means that they are skilled at becoming the one who is being pursued. Reversing the frame.
Nothing short circuits a woman’s defense mechanisms and fires attraction synapses faster than making her think that she’s the one who is chasing and competing for YOU.
LikeLike
@gig
leio sempre as palhaçadas que escrevem por aqui, mas vi que você respondeu lindamente em defesa do nosso país. Eu nem me incomodo muito. a ignorância generalizada deles me dá pena.
[]’s
LikeLike
Anyone thought about why the world turns it is the secret to perpetual motion and unlimited energy.
LikeLike
In utopia woman will have to become chattel. It is a good thing they will like it like that. Sure their will be outliers but very few.
LikeLike
Virgin@40 says, “Just do not expect her to be arround when she becomes slim.”
This is as much because of a change in the way the man treats her as it is because her options (and usually lifestyle) have changed.
Many times, especially in the cases of people who really do have health/hormonal problems, the guy felt that he was settling and being magnanimous by seeing through the woman’s flaws. Even if a guy actually prefers big(ger than “thick” really fat) women, he often gets the idea that he is incredibly rare and special, rather than a fetishist or perhaps selecting (exceptional) women whose fat can’t conceal their beauty. Being fat is considered a pretty big flaw nowadays.
To take that feeling of charity and magnanimousness away from a guy is a pretty big thing. Sometimes that’s what he rests his feeling of authority/superiority on. If the woman corrects whatever problem made her fat (which happening in dramatic numbers now that people are discovering the truth about paleo/low-carb/ethnic-anachronist diets) then she’s not just solving a looks issue, but a health issue.
She’ll be stronger, more active, happier, and change in many ways that an unprepared “saint” will have trouble with.
IMO, the solution is to be more alpha. When your wife or girlfriend starts losing weight, do what my ex (even though we’re platonic) is doing, and stop pulling punches that you would have back when she was, well to put it bluntly, sick.
Obesity above and beyond what would be normal for a person who perhaps enjoys eating but has a relatively sedentary job, is a symptom of an illness. The sedentary lifestyle thing is a fat accumulation-only situation. Most of the time, at least in my and other enthusiasts and experts’ observation, it’s a result of emotional issues and improper fueling. Improper fueling causes a host of problems aside of the fat. Add that to just about any health problem that could cause low energy, and it’s compounded.
When she’s solving her problems, treat her like a person with fewer problems, and enjoy it.
Some guys actually have contempt for beautiful women, and when a woman loses weight, that starts to show. The guy sees her transforming, visually, into the kind of woman he hates, and he forgets that she’s still basically the same person. He has to get used to the idea that he’s no longer going to be the only guy who finds her attractive, but that those guys won’t be competition for him unless he allows them to be.
LikeLike
Gunny says, “In utopia woman will have to become chattel. It is a good thing they will like it like that. Sure their will be outliers but very few.”
So long as the outliers have some legitimate place to use their skills other than jail or the morgue, I’m game.
LikeLike
Naa morgue he he he all outliers go to morgue
LikeLike
Sorry I do try to fit my own demise into any version of utopia I come up with.
LikeLike
Nicole: Clear out your mind. Then focus it like a headlight/ high beam laser lamp on the sign that says ;” Getting fatter is stupid. Getting thinner will get better quality men to take you seriously.” Duh!!!!!
It is not me saying this. I am just a guy, a messenger.. Think of this wisdom as coming as if from a god or at least a very serious person.
Seriously; being sorta fat now points towards being criminally fat in a few more years. Guys should avoid that at all costs or fight to the death if cornered.
Being able to trim up when required = marry her and plan for a long % happy retirement.
People who advocate “Fat Acceptance” should be forced to wear chain ropes around their necks at all times – the kind that can be turned into fatal garrotts by just by a hard pull of the chain.
Everybody loves street theater, especially if it is easy to understand.
LikeLike
Nicolle, stop thinking so much. Just sit down and stare at the screen long enough to absorb the meanings as they form a few simple teachings. First, God definitely seems to hate fat people. You get ignored by the folks you want to be with and you get visited right quick with all kinds of disability and then later,… cancer.
How much harder do you want me to push this? I mean, I do not mean to penetrate your deepest defenses.
LikeLike
I guess nicole if you let me slap you around a little I could give ya some passion. I can seperate love and intimacy/passion/sex(we probably couldn’t have sex though).
But you could be my workaholic bitch. Help me succeed what more can ya ask for. He He He
LikeLike
“If the guy has made you laugh, hinted at Day 2 venues, and inspired your interest in hanging out again, if he drops that line with a sparkle in his eye and his lips pouted to suppress a big smirk, you would be the loser to not play along.”
If he’s done all of that, and as a result I AM INTO HIM, he can just straight up ask for my number, I will give it to him, and will not flake because I’d be genuinely excited to see him again. If I am already into him, and he gives me the “I don’t usually give my number out to girls line,” unless he is very clearly making a joke (although this doesn’t seem to be the case in Roissy’s example), at best I would immediately become *less* into him for the reasons I stated in my first post. If I were undecided about him (which seems to be the most likely scenario for guys just learning game) , the line would push me over the edge into *not* being into him. This is because that line is obviously BS, since there is really no other reason a random guy would come up and make conversation with me in a bar/club situation (which I assume is what we are talking about here) other than to try and pick me up. Perhaps the “I don’t give my number out” line might work during the day if you have a girl convinced that you really are talking to her for some other reason than to pick her up. Or if you are married/attached in some way and you are trying for an affair because in that case the line would actually be believable. However, girls who would be okay with dating a married man usually have a whole host of psychological issues that I don’t want to get into here.
“This is true, but time is limited. He’s invested some in you. If you give it and he calls and you flake that’s a further waste of his time. It’s better if he can pull a psychological move that induces you to chase him a little and anyway tests you then and there, making flaking a lot less likely.”
First of all, the time it takes to dial a phone number and perhaps leave a message is so small that it is basically negligible. Second, non-desperate girls are not into “chasing” guys they’ve had one conversation with at a bars. So yes, you might induce certain girls to “chase” you a bit, but you also run the risk of turning off girls with more options (i.e. the 9s 10s).
“Have you ever given your number to someone you had no interest in, knowing you would never return their call?
Have you ever changed your mind after giving out your number because in retrospect he wasn’t that great?
Have you ever made a date with a new man and then had ‘something come up’ so that you had to cancel?”
Yes, yes, and no.
LikeLike
This is such a sub-branch of my patented telekinisis game
LikeLike
lalady:
“If he’s done all of that, and as a result I AM INTO HIM, he can just straight up ask for my number, I will give it to him, and will not flake because I’d be genuinely excited to see him again.”
Again, you’re missing the point. The reverse close is an extra hurdle to make girls jump through for you. It’s a qualifying exercise and a DHV, two affirmations within the VACQS paradigm. This reduces the chances of flaking by contributing to a guy’s sum value, hands down. If someone can’t pull the line off, the pickup wasn’t working anyway. It’s been said before; the more in the zone you are during pickup, the more mistakes you can afford.
You admit that you have given out your number with no intention of answering and also changed your mind after reflecting on the interaction with a guy you’ve given your number to. If a guy whifs on his unconventional number close, he has really just saved himself time and emotion.
Regarding a “negligible” loss of time for a guy to leave unreturned messages, you are discounting that the guy might be somewhat emotionally invested in a followup. In fact, if the time taken to call is all you consider, you are assuming that no alpha (or beta) values your attractiveness above the proverbial ‘next in line.’ Some guys might even value the rapport they’ve built with you as well as wanting to fuck you. To behave with the supposition that these emotions have no cost (and by implication, no value) primes you for the pump and dump status you seem inclined to.
Not that I object to that lifestyle.
LikeLike
Howard Roark:
The “hottest, bitchiest Slavic women” in Manhattan definitely require different game. G outlined early on in the comments that this style works best on “typical white middle class to upper class American urban girls.” You’re dead on that this routine is not for amateurs. It won’t improve your likelihood to number-close, and you WILL walk away from some numbers and possible notches. It WILL decrease the likelihood of flaking if you achieve compliance by reversing the typical pickup dynamic.
I’m working on day game in particular in the Paul Janka mold of forcing 10 second decision-making. Obviously there is no window for cuteness there. While I appreciate your determination for forthrightness, I think all PUA’s could stand to benefit walking through this reverse number close as a thought experiment.
LikeLike
Rum says, “Nicole: Clear out your mind. Then focus it like a headlight/ high beam laser lamp on the sign that says ;” Getting fatter is stupid.”
Do you think they have a choice in the matter?
…that someone wakes up in the morning and says to themselves, “Gee, I think I want to attach the weight of a whole other person to my body, and walk around like that all the time. Fun!”
No, what happens is that people don’t eat properly and exercise enough, or they have a hormonal upset (like having a baby) and are unable to get up the gumption, or lied to about how to recover from such a thing.
I won’t go into a DTH style tyrade about it, but I will say that he’s right about one thing: maintaining one’s weight is easy. It’s as easy as well, eating. You just have to know what you’re doing. I’m afraid most westerners don’t.
With fewer women learning to cook at all, much less properly, the situation has gone from bad to worse. What has changed since the 50’s is that. I don’t remember ever walking away from either of my grandma’s hungry, but I was rail thin as a child.
“Getting thinner will get better quality men to take you seriously.” Duh!!!!!
It is not me saying this. I am just a guy, a messenger.. Think of this wisdom as coming as if from a god or at least a very serious person.”
I don’t know about better quality. It does attract greater numbers, but what’s available is just what’s available.
I tend to hang out with quality people…folks with brains and strong character who do more with their lives than exist and consume. This was so when I was thinner and when I was fatter.
What I have noticed though, is that being smaller makes guys assume that I’m more vulnerable. I was fat for a long time, so I’d almost forgotten about that until my last fight.
In relationships, like goes to like. I may get slightly more attention from more conventionally physically handsome guys now, but I can’t really say the quality has improved. Maybe this is because I’m older, but I’m having similar experiences to my pre-hypothyroid blow-up situation. So I don’t think it’s that.
I still believe that smaller = easier target for the male dark side much like more money = more appetizing target for the female dark side.
So now that the weight loss is well on its way, I’ve gotten more serious about the “cosmetic” end of weight training. At least in short sleeves I won’t look like easy prey for predatory types, which are the minority but still people I’d like to continue to repel.
“Seriously; being sorta fat now points towards being criminally fat in a few more years. Guys should avoid that at all costs or fight to the death if cornered.”
It’s your choice, but as I tell anyone: the consequences of contempt are mutual. You do without the problems someone may bring to your life, but also the benefits.
I’m not telling you that you have to like fat girls. I’m just saying that paranoia about women who aren’t fat isn’t the answer. It makes more sense to make sure copious amounts of sugar, fake food, and ill prepared food don’t make it to your table. If she gets too fat under those circumstances, you know she has a health issue or eating disorder, and can treat it accordingly.
“Being able to trim up when required = marry her and plan for a long % happy retirement.”
There’s just one problem with your theory: a stable guy is a whore’s retirement plan. A great many women watch their weight before they’re married to get a husband, and then stop once they get the ring and pop out a kid. They know they’ve got you, so their real face comes out.
So don’t marry anyone under the current system. Have a family arrangement and a contract.
“People who advocate “Fat Acceptance” should be forced to wear chain ropes around their necks at all times – the kind that can be turned into fatal garrotts by just by a hard pull of the chain.
Everybody loves street theater, especially if it is easy to understand.”
For me, it’s not about fat acceptance vs. non acceptance. Nature does a good enough job of sorting the weak from the strong.
Misery chasing doesn’t have a weight limit.
LikeLike
That whole “let her chase YOU” business only goes so far, and can backfire. I’ve tried that and lost – can’t afford to be playing games like this. If you want it, goddammit, ask for it. Asking ain’t begging.
HOWEVER…
What HAS worked for me is when I’ll do the number close, and if she sez something noncommital like “I’m not the best dater in the world” or “I’m just getting out of a relationship,” thats when I turn my back and move away without further comment.
Strangely enough, THAT is when she says: “hey, don’t you want my number?” or “hey, give me that pen!” or “hold on, let me at least give me your card.”
Just ’cause women play games doesn’t mean men have to play along. 2 wrongs dont make a right
LikeLike
CORRECTION: she says “hold on, let me at least give you MY card!”
LikeLike
“A frequent source of my flakes is that I’ll have a casual, friendly conversation with a girl without really eliciting what she’s interested in and she would be interested in doing with me, so it’s no surprised that she isn’t eager to answer her phone when my number shows up. The implied day2 gives a girl more emotional investment than me just grabbing a number.”
While I agree, I have had exceptions…
a) Women who i established a rapport/chemistry/common interest with who decided not to call back
b) women who i did not establish a rapport with, but they followed up anyway because they liked my directness
so you cant win – just do the best you can with what you got and hope it works out
LikeLike
Is it really this big of a deal to bed a girl? For christ sakes, I have no advanced tactic at all, and I *always* nail the hottest girl in the room. You probably would have been fine with just the plan to see an animal sex exhibit. Man with a plan- already much better than “we should do something sometime, you know?”
LikeLike
Yes feministx you cannot understand the plight of the less fortunate until you allow yourself to become the less fortunate.
LikeLike
FeministX —
Get real. First of all, you’re dealing with Lesbian women. Who are generally ugly, that’s just reality. Most Lesbian women don’t look like the girls on the L Word. They look like Rosie O’Donnell and are grateful for any attention by anything female that has a pulse.
So let’s be realistic about closing for Lesbians. It’s no big deal.
FWIW, Norah Vincent pretty much acknowledged that in her book “Self Made Man” where she found instant success as an open Lesbian, with women, but total failure approaching AS A MAN (she unsurprisingly disguised herself as a man).
Guys approaching halfway attractive women are not approaching the Rosie O’Donnell, Roseanne Barr, to Ellen Degeneres types who are happy to see something their sex acknowledge they are alive and interesting.
Even half way attractive women get hit on a LOT just rolling into work every morning, and ogled constantly. They get constant, non-stop, validation from every guy that they are indeed attractive. They therefore filter out all but the most high-status guys, and with no need for “beta provider” choose the guys with the most Testosterone Dominance around.
As a Lesbian it’s just impossible for you to know this. You’re not interested in men and don’t care about filtering out only the best even if you are attractive. Most lesbians are not.
[And no, “gay for a day” starlets seeking attention like Megan Fox, Lindsay Lohan, Angelina Jolie, or Anne Heche don’t count. They’re all nuttier than a Pecan Tree, their first love is the camera and fame, and their second love is the stud of the day or whatever substance they’re using that week.]
You might nail the hottest Lesbian girl in the room. But choosing out of Rosanne Barr, Rosie O’Donnell, Margaret Cho, and the like, it’s akin to winning the Special Olympics. It’s not the real thing.
LikeLike
“And no, “gay for a day” starlets seeking attention like Megan Fox, Lindsay Lohan, Angelina Jolie, or Anne Heche don’t count.”
Why don’t they? You think I’m joking? I probably nail a steady supply of women hotter than Roissy does. How often do you see a stripper or model that isn’t bi?
I hope the kind of alpha Roissy is isn’t a moral problem because it ends up being a lot like what a girl like me is like. I don’t mean to be such a player, but it’s just so freaking easy. Hot girls love attention, and they know they’ll get more of it if they attach themselves to another hot girl. I am the most ideal possible companion for them, because I let them have the attention from men. And eventually, it becomes lindsay and sam style where they start to forget the men altogether.
I admit. I can be pretty awful myself. When Roissy does it, it’s “keeping them guessing”. When I do it, I’m probably just genuinely being a flake that doesn’t care, but the effect is the same. Sometimes I just can’t resist getting some hot modelesque girl wrapped around my finger.
LikeLike
Roissy, sorry I keep trying to post the same comment- didn’t mean to be a bother. I was just wondering what was wrong.
LikeLike
Whiskey claims, “Get real. First of all, you’re dealing with Lesbian women. Who are generally ugly, that’s just reality.”
Ugly? How about not wearing makeup, and less uptight about being skinny as opposed to fit.
Most Lesbians and Lesbian leaning Bi women I know are pretty tough. They’ve had to be. They might not be pretty from a straight male perspective, but if you look at what’s un-pretty about them to you, it’s likely you’ll come up with descriptions that revolve around their not being vulnerable looking.
Lesbians tend to be handsome, not ugly.
LikeLike
feministx:
there are very few hot lesbian women, so the ones that are out there probably tend to come together quite easily…in a scissor like fashion.
no, but really, given the huge amount of competition from other men, good looking men picking up hot straight chick is a whole different animal than hot lesbians picking up hot lesbian chicks.
in reality, sex is what hot lesbians *do*. that’s really their only purpose in life. there is no facade, charade, or game.
LikeLike
Going out for the first time in awhile this weekend. I just want to thank Roissy and other PUAs for giving me the motivation and optimism to better myself.
LikeLike
It may take more than one night it may take more than one club have fun
LikeLike
OFF TOPIC– Tonight I tried out the text tactics laid out in roissy’s “reversing a flake” post. Still somewhat new to this game (about 4 months), and curious if people have any thoughts. I was pleased with my performance. Also I’m pretty drunk right now.
[after much (mostly positive) back and forth]
ME: Ok, I’m cruising to [bar] later, call me if youre around
HER [20 mins later]: Im tired town [editor’s note:?]
ME: {nothing}
HER [hour and 15 later]: I might stop for a drink. are you there
ME: yea here with some friends
HER: im going to come
HER [twenty minues later]: o [editor’s note: ?]
HER [additional twenty minutes]: hey, i changed my mind. i cant be around that scene tonight. going home, have a good night and talk soon
ME [10 mins later]: k ms. flakester
HER [immediately]: no no. im just sparing every one from conflict between [friend] and i. it is like breaking up from a boydriend [editor’s note: I have no idea what this refers to]
ME: {nothing}
HER [twenty minutes later]: id say you guys could come here but it is far from your home
ME [ten mins]: its cool, maybe ill see you some other time
HER [immediately]: okeedokee
HER [soon after]: like tomorrow!
ME [15 mins]: haha, call me ill be around
I feel good about it. If not, I think I have maintained my manly integrity and sometimes that is all that matters.
LikeLike
If a guy I just met and had a great conversation with, doesn’t ask for my number, I just assume he doesn’t want it, or he’s too shy (read unambitious with a low sex drive) which would make us incompatible anyway.
If I don’t ask for your number, it’s because of the following reasons:
1) You’re not sexual enough.
2) You fail at hugs.
3) No nails, no heels.
4) You thought my photography sucks.
5) You hate trains or highways.
Oh wait a minute. I never ask girls for their numbers. Dating requires leaving the house. 🙂
but I find a lot of standard game techniques only work if a girl is full of herself, which usually happens in 8s and higher.
Neg a 7 and she’ll cry and hate you.
So I can be David Alexander and get the 6s and 7s with nails that you guys won’t touch? 😛
This is a fancy way of saying you miss him. This demonstrates DA totally has game. We female commenters cannot leave him alone, he is unattainable and only would ever want a bad girl…
Since I proudly have no game, I’m well assured that nobody missed me. David was in the real world doing adult things for part of the day, and he spent the rest hiding in a book store reading magazines and eating at a diner alone.
BTW, it’s not bad girl versus good girl. It’s sexual looking girl with nails, tits, and ass versus sweet looking girl with no features. The former is sexually attractive to me, while the latter is what turns David into a loyal pupping willing to do anything for a hug. 🙂
LikeLike
You know, I really coulndt care less about the whole Lesbian thing, for a number of reasons; one is because the vast majority of Women ain’t goin’ that route, beyond a brief “let’s try it” phase, ala Anne Heche, and two, the whole thing is overhyped. That said, if Women like FemX wanna go that route, and if they’re able to pull chicks the way they say, more power to em. Its no skin off my back.
My problem is, as Chuck and Whiskey have spoken to, the attempts by a FemX and those who thinks as she does, that they can somehow inform the debate insofar as Men goes. Totally different animal. The massive social, technological, economic and legal changes over the past 30-40 years have meant, that now Woman can have pretty much carte blanche choice in their sexual habits and lifestyle-choices w/little if any consequences I might add. While that may seem great on its face, anyone w/half a brain who’s lived as an adult for any length of time will tell you that’s a recipe for disaster in the longrun.
And that’s what I’ve learned out of all this most wrt Women, their real challenges w/being able to see beyond the moment or the short term. And I honestly do believe this is largely informed by the fact that, in the main, Women have a relatively short window in which to make good on their reproductive promise-while menopause for most Women dosnt hit until their 50s, for all intents once they hit their mid to late 30s, its pretty much over for them on the sexual market. And watching Women slam into that “wall” is not a pretty sight.
The new environment does promise some winners, but a whole heck of a lot more losers too, male and female alike. Even leaving the most obvious losers aside-kids-the lives of Men and Women are ruined and wrecked everyday as a result of the Brave New World we live in.
If straight Women cannot fully appreciate what Men go through, it has to be all but impossible for Lesbians. But FemX and perhaps others might want to consider one Lesbian’s effort to see life from the Male POV-its a powerful book called Self Made Man, by Norah Vincent.
O
LikeLike
It seems like a lot of focus has been put onto the line that Roissy uses (“I don’t accept girl’s numbers”) when the line isn’t really the focus. Personally, I don’t really think a line like that is completely necessary for the reverse number close and if the conversation between the two people was good enough then the girl will most likely go for it without needing to be prompted by a line. If she doesn’t go for it then both parties have been saved the hassle of a useless connection.
LikeLike
Off topic: The evolutionary reason for attractive women being disgusted by “creepy” betas/omegas.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04282009/news/regionalnews/smitten_cabbie_cut_up_beauty_166540.htm
Look what can happen when they aren’t.
LikeLike
Maria,
I think so delightfull that you always have the tendence to consider yourself superior to everybody else and that you also consider everybody who disagrees with you “ignorant”.
That’s what happens when one is educated in third world countries. But, just for the reccord, don’t you think the people here diserved you to speak in English? You see, the lingua franca here is not exactly that of Camões…
Who’s the ignorant? The non-Brazilian, as always. Just look to your fucking president and tell me which country exports more the “uuu Im so ignorant” mantra than Brazil.
Jeeezzz…
LikeLike
Nicole,
I don’t like fatties. I mean, I am little more than 1,8 meters tall and height little more than 65 kgs. I am thin. I don’t like taller women (than me) nor fat women.
However, I’ve seen fat female friends that lost weight and, from nowhere, started to “bitch up”. Really nasty. I’ve not saw it once, I have identified it as a pattern.
LikeLike
“If straight Women cannot fully appreciate what Men go through, it has to be all but impossible for Lesbians.”
Men want to go through this. They want to sit here all day and wrack their brains to come up with ways to get into women’s pants. And they simulteneously want a girlfriend that hasn’ slept with that many guys and will resist all temptation to cheat. Whatchagonna do? The game has gotta be hard or else you can never get a faithful girlfriend.
LikeLike
“Lesbians tend to be handsome, not ugly.”
There are a lot of really attractive femme lesbians, actually. They seem to be women that are disgusted with men.
LikeLike
FemX, I won’t pretend to have a profound understanding of the lesbian thing. So correct me if I’m wrong: but my prception is that the “born” lesbians have a butch look to them, or otherwise a characteristic look that I can’t put into words, but I know it when I see it, like Ellen Degeneres.
Other lesbians, among whom you’ll probably find femmes, are, like you said, women who are disgusted with men. I’m guessing from abuse/trauma, or from an innate aversion to male bodies, semen, smell, or what will you.
And then you have young women, usually vere attractive ones, who go through a lesbian phase, but in their case it’s more a function of their and their girlfreinds’ narcissism.
LikeLike
“So correct me if I’m wrong: but my prception is that the “born” lesbians have a butch look to them, or otherwise a characteristic look that I can’t put into words, but I know it when I see it, like Ellen Degeneres.”
That is certainly common.
I think the reason that attractive femme lesbians seem bi or like they are going through a phase is because they get so much attention from men, so they try a guy here and there. But I have known such women to say that they have never ever fantasized about a man while masturbating and are unable to enjoy sex with men.
I have sex with men sometimes and I feel it is a dissociative experience. I feel as though I have not done it in several years since I can’t remember what it feels like. It’s like my mind is not there when it happens.
LikeLike
fuck solid number closes, how about we work on logistics, Anyone who does a 100 sets starts getting good with women..a number is no big deal, how do u close the deal the first night, especially in a city like NYC or DC, where riding the sub kills her state and a cab ride back to my place outside the city costs a $100?
LikeLike
I have sex with men sometimes and I feel it is a dissociative experience.
Is it a case of the hardware (sexual anatomy) getting what it was designed for, while the software (your psyche) is at best getting someting it merely puts up with?
LikeLike
They seem to be women that are disgusted with men
I don’t buy this disgusted stuff. People get disgusted because they can’t hold a top partner or because the envy someone else’s partner.
LikeLike
feministx–
Complete and utter bullshitte.
LikeLike
feministx-
All the time. I had a tall gorgeous Texan living in NYC and loving the art scene stripper who lived with me for a couple of years.
Now playing a little bi is fashionable these days and has been for a couple of decades. So sure they usually say they want to dabble in it some, or affect liking it. And hell, their boyfriends generally (read very, very often) push them in that direction since, well, it helps produce threesomes. (Guilty as charged. Worked. Fun. Well mostly fun. There are managment issues. And defending the home turf issues. We’re dealing with people here.)
So if by bi you mean saying that, yeah, ok, you’re right. If by bi you mean going through periods of being deeply sexually attacted to women but not men, and vice versa, then no, most aren’t.
LikeLike
feministx–
You sound like you’re really straight up lesbian, but affect bi, so as not to have men just completely dismiss you and hate on you.
Because most of us men who are at least a little in the know have come to realize the degrees of dismissive hate/scorn etc. that the great majority of straight up lesbians have for straight men.
This situation is vastly different from that of gay men, who rarely really hate either straight women or straight men.
LikeLike
Doug,
You know, maybe its me, but I realy don’t get FemX’s angle here-she’s gone on record as both being a lesbian, and not having a terribly high opinion of Men, all of which I’m 100% cool with.
So, the big question for me is, why is she here? How and in what way does she inform the discussion or even debate? I personally don’t see how what she’s said to date, inform it for me. Again, I have no problem w/her views in and of themselves. Just needing to get a handle on what’s her function, if you dig me.
I’m just sayin.
O
LikeLike
why is she here
I am convinced now that PUA debates serve as some sort of sado-masochism light for the sexually frustrated. S&M that you can do in work.
LikeLike
I am here to read Roissy’s posts. Say what you will about his character, his prose is hard to surpass. I somehow ended up getting embroiled in these discussions here. I don’t know why. You’re right. I don’t have anything useful to add for men.
“So if by bi you mean saying that, yeah, ok, you’re right. ”
That’s all I need for one night.
“Complete and utter bullshitte.”
I honestly can’t remember the last time that I went out and got laid and the girl wasn’t the hottest one in the club, party whatever.
The first time it happened is what tipped me off to my potential was in college when I was on a cruise for spring break. There were a lot of hot college kids there, but there was this one blonde that stood out the whole time. She was literally the hottest girl on the entire boat. And every night I’d see dozens of guys hit on her. I didn’t think much of it. Just assumed she was entirely out of my league. But one night I was dancing not to far from her and she just came up to me and said I was so beautiful and that she loved my dark exotic look. And much to the frustration of many of the guys there that night, I was the one that got the girl.
If there is a hot bi/les girl out and about, I find her and she finds me.
But that’s just getting her once. It terms of keeping her and making sure she’s good to me, everything in the world of Roissy applies to me too. It’s about the game, not the equipment.
LikeLike
feministxI am here to read Roissy’s posts. Say what you will about his character, his prose is hard to surpass
100% true
LikeLike
MU So, the big question for me is, why is she here? How and in what way does she inform the discussion or even debate?
There were a couple of gay men last week who posted that game works on men, so game could work for fem x as well.
*shrugs shoulders*
LikeLike
“Is it a case of the hardware (sexual anatomy) getting what it was designed for, while the software (your psyche) is at best getting someting it merely puts up with?”
Well, I find it disgusting when a guy tries to kiss or fondle me during sex. I pull away. It’s just completely gross. I can’t describe it beyond that. So, the only sex I have with guys involves very little touching and that just becomes dissociating and painful. But I have no problem like this with women.
“Because most of us men who are at least a little in the know have come to realize the degrees of dismissive hate/scorn etc. that the great majority of straight up lesbians have for straight men.”
Some lesbians even dislike the aspects of my sexuality which are rather male-like. Unlike most 100% lesbians, I have pretty conventional and narrow aethetic preferences for women. I mean, I am happy to date and average or below average looking girl with a good personality and attitude in bed, but a lot of the times, I act like an objectifying lecher.
LikeLike
Hey chuck, here’s more proof that the right wing extremist crap Obama lied about is groundless:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/195085/?gt1=43002
You’ll note the article states that it has no proof of growth, and can only quote the discredited SPLC on the issue. But yet the article asserts the movement “is growing” without proof—exactly what Obama wanted them to say.
And yet its so easy to find proof of left wing radicals and their organizations and numbers and plans, etc.
LikeLike
Chic,
Well, to the extent that Game applies to male and female alike, I would agree; still, there is a big difference btw how a straight Man would apply it in pursuit of a putatively straight Woman, and a Lesbian like FemX applying it to a possibly Bi Woman. I think there are significantly differing dynamics at play in both cases, etc.
Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that she doesn’t have the right to be here or to participate; personally I don’t know the Woman well enough to dislike her. So its nothing personal here. Just asking what’s up with that is all.
O
LikeLike
JM
you were absolutely money until right about here:
ME [15 mins]: haha, call me ill be around
I probably would have just ended with a ‘cool’ or something simple. Maybe a bust on her expecting her to flake or something like, ‘sure you will, later’
she’d text back to that, ‘NOOOO, I mean it I will’
to which either a no reply is perfect or a ‘fine but if you don’t, that was your last chance’
always challenge em
LikeLike
To be more clear, I didn’t like you ended it because it makes you seem like you’d be waitin around for her call, as a gamer, you’re always busy even if you’re not. And you’re certainly not waiting on one girl to call you
LikeLike
— Well, I find it disgusting when a guy tries to kiss or fondle me during sex. I pull away. It’s just completely gross. I can’t describe it beyond that. So, the only sex I have with guys involves very little touching and that just becomes dissociating and painful. But I have no problem like this with women.
I can understand that. But whan I’m curious about is, why have sex with men at all? Because intercourse alone feels good, and that’s something a man is equipped to deliver, but all other expressions of intimacy with men are gross?
LikeLike
Querido(a);
só porque eu reconheci a falta de informação alheia nos comentários e chamei a atenção, eu me sinto superior aos outros? Desde quando?
Eu não somente *não* me sinto superior a ninguém como tenho certeza que não sou superior a ninguém. Nem aos pobres, nem aos ricos, nem aos brancos, nem aos negros.
Mas, você sabe, ignorante é quem comenta idiotices sem fazer uma mínima pesquisa prévia sobre o assunto, sem medo de passar vergonha. E continuará sendo ignorante, queira ou não.
Notas importantes:
Eu não dirigi a palavra a você, fui específica, mas aí está um pouco da minha atenção para você, parabéns. Eu falo inglês quando eu precisar/quiser, você não manda em mim. Não me interessa sua opinião sobre o presidente do Brasil. Ele é um merda, eu concordo. Você também.
Um forte abraço.
LikeLike
I’m sorry roissy, I’m sorry the rest of you.
That wasn’t with you.
I forgot to add that.
LikeLike
“Because intercourse alone feels good, and that’s something a man is equipped to deliver, but all other expressions of intimacy with men are gross?”
It doesn’t really feel good. I just tried it a few times just to find out about it. I have had one boyfriend who I really liked as a person, but the sex was awful every single time. I was glad it only lasted at most 2 minutes. The relationship was about three or four years ago.
Since then, I nail a guy on rare occaision if I want something from him.
LikeLike
wait, feministrix, why would you get nailed bya guy if it doesn’t feel good? just stop and go to women.
also, we need to correct this feminist-inspired notion that women can fuck men. unless you’ve got a strap on or are sticking other things in his ass, he fucks you, but you get fucked by him. You can both collectively “fucked” but the woman is the fuckee, not the fucker.
I fuck
He fucks
She gets fucked
We fucked.
LikeLike
“You can both collectively “fucked” but the woman is the fuckee, not the fucker.”
Lurker, do you expect me to say, “I am the sometimes the fuckee of such and such a man?”
I am pretty sure that when a woman says “I fucked him”, the meaning is clearly understood.
Well, sometimes I do it because I want something- as a compensation factor. Like a few months ago, a male friend helped me move all my stuff. He had a big van, he packed my stuff and he drove me to my new place 200 miles away and unpacked my stuff. The ethnical thing for me to do was to either compensate him financially or compensate him otherwise. I chose otherwise.
I am capable of enjoying sex with a man though. It has happened. I am not a lesbian and my sexuality is not entirely uncommon.
LikeLike
Guys–
Here’s a threesome tip.
Be sure the other girl is a bi dabbler who’s mostly straight, not someone like feministx.
It’s best if the other girl really hasn’t done bi much or at all (whatever she says at first) but is open to experimenting.
Note this is harder, particularly if your girl is the one doing the finding of the other girl all on her own. (Avoid that.) It will be easier for her to find a feministx type who actually wants to do it.
If you do end up with that type there is a strong dance the lesbo is gonna try to steal your girl from you. I think a lot of them try to do this just to fuck with men. (Remember all that lesbo man hate or at the very least, deep need to prove themselves better.) That is there’s a good chance she’s try to steal her and then if she succeeds dump her after not too long.
Yes I did run into this once. No the lesbo pretending to be bi (or who was very marginally bi) didn’t succeed in stealing my girl. But it did make for a bad threesome nite. Started good but ended bad. Turned my stripper girl completely off threesomes for awhile, though we’d had a couple of good ones before.
Lesbians really do tend to be bad news. There are always exceptions but for a man to have a lesbian for a friend especially if she’s good looking and otherwise attractive is like having a leopard as a pet. Not a good idea. Likely to turn on you, or rather steal what you want, or try to damn hard. No sense of honor to men. Part of the species.
LikeLike
feministx
Of course you’re a lesbian. And of course you’re not bi regardless of what you claim.
That’s clear from the details you’ve given.
You’re simply a lesbian that’s not ideologically determined to never let a man fuck you (or never again let one) no mater what. You only do it for reasons ulterior to enjoying the sex with a man.
By far the great majority of so called bi women are really primarily straight, but have simply dabbled or think it would be “cool” to try it. (Many of these are far less interested in giving oral sex to another woman than in receiving it, to the great annoyance of the more or entirely lesbo women they try things with.) But there are some genuinely bi women.
You’re just not one of them.
LikeLike
feministix–
So you’re black?
LikeLike
“So you’re black?”
Why do you ask?
LikeLike
“Lurker, do you expect me to say, “I am the sometimes the fuckee of such and such a man?” ”
—no, I expect you to say you got fucked by a guy. which you did.
“I am pretty sure that when a woman says “I fucked him”, the meaning is clearly understood.”
—its just feminist b.s. playing with language to make a woman sound like she isn’t the receiver and the man the aggressor. Sorry, wrong answer.
“Well, sometimes I do it because I want something- as a compensation factor.”
—so you’re a hooker, gotcha.
LikeLike
“—its just feminist b.s. playing with language to make a woman sound like she isn’t the receiver and the man the aggressor”
Not all guys like to think of it that way, you know?
“—so you’re a hooker, gotcha.”
I’m not a hooker. I’m just nice to those that are nice to me.
LikeLike
@db:
It’s interesting that you recognize that this is a tactic, yet you’re still drawn to the behavior and it makes you FEEL gut level attraction.
Remember guys, all these behaviors might be recognized, but the chick still LIKES it. I remember roissy said in one of his posts – the trial texting post – “she’ll know what you’re up to, but she still RESPONDS”
This is very true of game. Back in the day before I started studying it, I would use reverse psychology (little things to increase attraction) that I THOUGHT would be sniffed out (old school manipulation techniques that you unlearn early because they stop working even with your parents, who unconditionally love you). I swear my ex-gf was either dumb as fuck and didn’t see right through it, or she LIKED the behavior, was attracted to it, and wanted me to continue so it got positive results.
To this day, I still (when making out) constantly pull back. I lean in like I’m going to kiss and I brush against her cheek. I kiss fiercely and then pull back. I always get “you’re sooooo annoying” but I can tell she has a FIRE in her loins. Women know the trick, I mean who wouldn’t? It’s obvious push pull. But the emotions they feel when it’s done over ride any THOUGHT PROCESS.
Today, in class we were talking about the concept of love. I said love was a rush of ADDICTING emotions. Of course all the women disagreed and not only that, but they COMPLAINED about behaviors (game) that turns them on!
Thanks roissy.
I couldn’t agree more.
Solid post.
LikeLike
feministx, please don’t feed it sis.
LikeLike
“Not all guys like to think of it that way, you know?”
—-yes, betas will lap at your feminist bullshit all day.
Take it like a woman. And like it.
“I’m just nice to those that are nice to me.”
–you exchange sex for value, and are not married to the person you do it for. That’s a hooker.
chic, beyonce called. her fan club has missed you lately.
LikeLike
feministx–
Why not ask?
I’m trying to get a picture for your claimed inerrant ability to pull the hottest girl in the room every time for at least a night of bi for her and lesbian for you (I’m saying) sex.
If you are a hot Latina that strong signals her “bi” lesbian desires to hot straight girls open to dabbling in bi, then that would probably be an even more successful sort of exotica pull. But a hot black girl might do the same for many sorts of hot white and other girls. It’s not a chance that comes along easily every day to them.
Another thing about the current culture is that many guys and probably more girls don’t count bi experiences in their casual sex count reviewed to determine if they’re “a slut or not”. At least unless they go hog wild on that front.
LikeLike
Bi girls can’t be taken seriously as gfs, even if they were just “experimenting in college.” They’re clearly very suseptible to peer and social pressure when it comes to sex/ “exploring” and therefore it wouldn’t take much coaxing from a friend/movie/man at a bar to get them to sleep around on you.
LikeLike
There is absolutely nothing in the common use of the English language to suggest that a woman can’t “fuck” a man, even if refering to plain vanilla sex. It just means to have sex with, only in vulgar form, not differing between penetrative and receptive sex.
Main Entry: 1fuck
Pronunciation: \ˈfək\
Function: verb
Etymology: akin to Dutch fokken to breed (cattle), Swedish dialect fókka to copulate
Date: circa 1503
intransitive verb
1usually obscene : copulate
2usually vulgar : mess 3 —used with with
transitive verb
1usually obscene : to engage in coitus with —sometimes used interjectionally with an object (as a personal or reflexive pronoun) to express anger, contempt, or disgust
2usually vulgar : to deal with unfairly or harshly : cheat, screw
LikeLike
fem-x,
are you here trying to discuss,…whatever it is you are trying to discuss, simply because people are active in their responses (unlike your blog)?
it was somewhat palatable at first to read comments from a self proclaimed feminist bi/lesbian/manhater (so original, right?), but now it seems you’re just starved for attention.
instead of sharing how sex with a man is such a distant and unrewarding experience, and that you’re basically a whore using it as a tool to your “benefit” (you fucked a mover. seriously, it doesn’t get better than that)…you go find the quintessential beta-male (see BOTM monthly winners) and your fairy-nymph female.
or better yet, hone those writing skills so you don’t have to venture on over to roissy’s blog to find commenters to debate your bullshit.
LikeLike
Mr. M you fucked a mover
Is it always about class?
LikeLike
Doug, there are pictures of me on my blog (usually in the personal comments section). You can see what ethnicity I am and which ethnicity I look like (not really the same thing).
This is what I think I look like to men and to women. You can tell me if I am wrong. I am sure you all will be honest and I appreciate that.
To bi women, I look attractive but non threatening. While I mainly attract non white men, I mainly attract white women with very broad appeal or other women that are more attractive to men than I am. My appearance is very femme even though I do nothing for myself on most days. Fall out of bed and put my hair in a ponytail. Still, I am femme enough to sort of alienate some lesbians.
For men, it depends on the race of the man. For Asians I might be a 5-6. For whites, I a self assess myself as an 8. Not the most ideal face or skin tone, but my body borders on perfect when I work at it if you don’t mind the height (5 ft). For blacks, latinos and south asians, I am a 9 and even a 10 for a few.
LikeLike
Mr.M, are you a different person from Roissy? I would not be surprised if you were not.
I am a bit under the weather today, so I am home in bed with nothing to do. Hence, I am a little starved for attention.
I mean, if it really bothers people as it seems to, I can just stop posting.
LikeLike
A woman gets fucked by a man, period. Feminists invented this idea of a woman “fucking” a man, anonymous, to get over the fact that the only thing their gender can do correctly is bitch.
Fuck is an action verb. Men do, women get done. Women are passive receivers of being fucked. End of story.
LikeLike
Aww, feministix got her wittle feelings hurt because she got called out on being a ho-bag. She might cry and stop posting!
Man up, woman.
LikeLike
“Is it always about class?”
—-there’s no way to describe whoring yourself out for a mover that is classy, chic. but you wouldn’t know that.
LikeLike
chicnoir
No, but sometimes it is about lack of class.
LikeLike
“Aww, feministix got her wittle feelings hurt because she got called out on being a ho-bag. She might cry and stop posting!”
Not really. I am aware that sex without emotional attachment and done in exchange for something is borne of the same thing that causes official prostitution.
Though I admit, reading this board does hurt me somewhat. Not in a way that makes me want to cry, but it slightly depresses me because men seem to feel so much deep seeded venom towards women. I assume few women come into contact with blatant misogyny in their real life interactions with men. I don’t at least.
And I suppose the barrage of personal attacks can’t make for the most positive way of spending a day.
“Man up, woman.”
I kind of don’t want to.
LikeLike
No woman can unless while hes sleeping. Hence why eo goes out window. Equal pay out window. All other bullshit out window.
LikeLike
feministx
Maybe it is just you.
You are a feminist and a lesbian, who has declared her distaste for men. So what possible use are you to any man.
LikeLike
I am a bit under the weather today, so I am home in bed with nothing to do. Hence, I am a little starved for attention.
were you under the weather yesterday as well? are you under the weather everyday? i hope not…which leads me to:
I mean, if it really bothers people as it seems to, I can just stop posting.
there you go, getting our hopes up…but what women say (i’ll stop posting) never equates to what they do (keep posting).
Not in a way that makes me want to cry, but it slightly depresses me because men seem to feel so much deep seeded venom towards women.
yes, yes. clearly this is the case. i read your little apocalypse post via your pretty-pink blog. soon we will hunt all of women down and kill you for nothing more than dinner. hello off-base-view-of-the-world, nice to meet you.
I assume few women come into contact with blatant misogyny in their real life interactions with men.
yeah…who would have thought when you venture to a blog about picking up women that you might come across men who -appear- to be misogynistic to radical feminist lesbian females who have no issue expressing how they:
1) want to marry a man
2) hate sex with men, unless to get something they want (see 1)
3) hate all men
you’re such a pile of hypocrisy, it honestly disgusts me. go back to your blog and write about how someone on the internet raped you. or maybe how some guy on the corner of the street looked at you (he didnt really look at you, it was the person behind you), and then you charged him for rape anyway.
and no, i am not roissy.
LikeLike
feministx–
In contrast I doubt there’s a single man on this board, betas and alphas alike, who haven’t come into contact with blatant misandry all the freaking time. Hell, all you have to do is watch American TV, esp. sitcoms. Or go to an American University. Or talk to any strident feminist and a lot of the less strident ones. And so on.
It’s about time the tables were turned some, don’t you think?
As well, most of the men here (with some notable venomous exceptions) don’t really hate women generally. It’s more that they (or the betas anyway) are working on feeling one up over them (whereas they’ve been propaganized all their life to feel the opposite and actually in many ways downright deferential to women and their feelings)
What men do do around here all the freaking time though is not only dispense and react to game tips, but also warn each other about various aspects of various kinds of women — and about the horrors of feminist law divorce for men.
Yeah there’s a lot of gripping but there’s more searching for for the true story on what makes women tick and not tick.
LikeLike
“Not really. I am aware that sex without emotional attachment and done in exchange for something is borne of the same thing that causes official prostitution. ”
—not “bourne out of the same thing,” woman. It. Is.The.Same.Thing. Hooker.
“Not in a way that makes me want to cry, but it slightly depresses me because men seem to feel so much deep seeded venom towards women.”
—Note how she has finally somewhat admitted to be a ‘tute and a manhater, but yet tries to blame it all on us.
“I assume few women come into contact with blatant misogyny in their real life interactions with men. I don’t at least.”
—it’s easy to hate a gender that has created nothing yet irrationally demands everything from the same people it blames for its made-up-oppression.
“And I suppose the barrage of personal attacks can’t make for the most positive way of spending a day. ”
—–Sniff sniff. The lesbians who will tell you that its all a man’s fault are down the hall, dickbag.
“Man up, woman.”
“I kind of don’t want to.”
—No kidding. You’d have to grow a pair, contribute something to the universe, quit whining, and use logic. All things you’d rather not do, and live in your dyke-conspiracy theorist-fantasy world.
LikeLike
Feminists who complain about misogyny are like the kid who every day walks by a chained up dog in the neighbors yard and kicks it and then runs away.
After a year of doing this, one day the kid kicks the dog, runs away, and the dog manages to snap the chain and bite the kid.
The kid then cries to his mommy, “That dog hates me for no reason! Put it down! It’s an evil dog!”
LikeLike
feministx —
For the record it doesn’t bother me that you sometimes fuck men to do them a favor for doing you a favor. Seeing as how you seem to be about as into casual sex as most men are (or want to be), I actually think that’s rather cool of you.
Naturally I wish you’d get into it a good lot when the guy is good, like genuinely bi girls do, but hey, I still think it’s cool of you. Or rather I think it is if you DON’T zing him with gratuitous ego deflating stuff about how totally not turned on you were and so on. After all, what chance did he have?
So no I wouldn’t go around calling you a whore. (Then again I like whores too, or certainly can. I even had a fuck buddy who was a sometimes whore for awhile. Actually more than one.)
You’re an interesting lesbian. For one thing you didn’t argue with my anti male descriptions of most lesbians and even agreed with me — and said you get some of that from other lesbians directed against you. (Actually I’d be interested in hearing more about that).
As well you left completely alone my warning guys about lesbians who go into threesomes with the hidden intention of stealing the girl if she’s hot and who take satisfaction in simply messing with the guy who thinks he’s enough of all that to be able to get a genuine, two girls into him, sort of threesome.
LikeLike
“As well you left completely alone my warning guys about lesbians who go into threesomes with the hidden intention of stealing the girl if she’s hot and who take satisfaction in simply messing with the guy who thinks he’s enough of all that to be able to get a genuine, two girls into him, sort of threesome.”
I don’t know about other lezzies, but would do this. The complication comes from the man because it’s always him that wants to have an affair with me as soon as the threesome subject is broached, which is pointless for me. As soon as the girl tells her boyfriend I am interested, he starts calling, texting, IMing and this is not what I want.
“Naturally I wish you’d get into it a good lot when the guy is good, like genuinely bi girls do, but hey, I still think it’s cool of you. Or rather I think it is if you DON’T zing him with gratuitous ego deflating stuff about how totally not turned on you were and so on. After all, what chance did he have?”
It’s not a chance issue. There is a right and wrong answer to that conundrum. While I try and conceal my revulsion, I imagine they must sense some of it. When they lean in to kiss me, I turn my head. I cringe and keep my eyes clenched shut and don’t make a sound.
LikeLike
“””””””””””Feministx,
It’s not a chance issue. There is a right and wrong answer to that conundrum. While I try and conceal my revulsion, I imagine they must sense some of it. When they lean in to kiss me, I turn my head. I cringe and keep my eyes clenched shut and don’t make a sound.”””””””””””””
Yea umm it is gonna be hard for them to be good when it is the same as fucking a hot apple pie.
LikeLike
She throws up the challenge and I feel like changing her mind. LOL life is funny. Really though this lesbian attacked my friend he looked like one sucker bite shit was funny.
LikeLike
feministx
Actually when I think about it, they probably only wanted to fuck you because you said you were bi – and wouldn’t have (or some of them wouldn’t) if you were straight up with them about being purely lesbian, so far as what ever turns you on sexually goes these days. (Which is after all what almost everyone means by lesbian, as opposed to bi.)
Even if they would still want to use your vagina, as some guys seem to want to use hookers who don’t even pretend to get a little into it, wouldn’t it be a lot more fair to them to tell them them your solely lesbian score so they never had (to repeat) a chance?
Is it fair to men who are attracted to you to characterize yourself as bi to them? Or is it deep deception?
Hell, is it fair to women? Or is it deep deception?
LikeLike
Excellent points Doug & Lurker, word up.
O
LikeLike
dougjn, you seem almost angry with feminstx, why? she is who and what she is, let her be.
LikeLike
yes, chic, isn’t that the bitch way? When you XX’s lose an argument, you suddenly strat crying out about “just live and let live” but when you’re on the attack, no meat is safe.
Go away chic. illogic has a place; its falled feministing.com
LikeLike
Chic:
dougjn, you seem almost angry with feminstx, why? she is who and what she is, let her be.
Feminstx = Chic Noir in 2 years.
LikeLike
very funny tupac but I doubt it. I like the look the male body(in shape) way to much. I also like the way it feels when a man wraps his arms around me. for about 2 minutes anyway
LikeLike
All in due time
LikeLike
chic —
She lies about who she is. She says she’s bi. Not just here but to both men and women in her life, as her customary thing. She’s not. She’s clearly and unambiguously lesbian. Full stop.
You mean aside from the her deep customary deception of men – and women with her “bi” lie? Only you could ask why. Most people are smarter than that. My post made it glaringly obvious why I’m annoyed with her.
Her insistence on calling herself bi is pure manipulative and lying bullshiite.
No.
Let me clue you in chic noir. Lesbians, with rare exceptions (think Camille Paglia) are the enemy. For men.
It took me awhile, long ago now, to realize that. It’s not that I care about their sexual preferences. As far as that goes live and let live, sure, no probs. No skin off me.
I do care about their (in the case of a great many of them) pervasive hatred of men, their reflexive unfairness towards men and their deep desire to undermine men, their central role in the feminist movement, particularly it’s nastier and more radical sides, and their wholly undeserved but “illegal to attack” wide influence on our society through feminism, the media and Universities. The main reason for that influence is that it’s been made “illegal” under PC to attack lesbians for these things.
LikeLike
dougjn Let me clue you in chic noir. Lesbians, with rare exceptions (think Camille Paglia) are the enemy. For men
Wow that’s a powerful statement. I need to think it over so I can see it from your view.
Tupac Chopra
All in due time
I was prepared to giggle Tupac but you just give me this^^^. Of the two genders, which has the stronger tongue?
I do care about their (in the case of a great many of them) pervasive hatred of men
Not to belittle your argument but street harassment and seeing unleashed male violence can make almost any woman dislike and fear men dougjn. The two genders are just so different in thinking that we will always be at some type of war.
LikeLike
Chic Noir
Yet the great majority of women don’t. They dislike and fear or hate those sorts of men acting in that kind of unrestrained way, only. But not the great many others, including those that have those things in them, but are more self disciplined and perhaps sophisticated about it (most alphas).
Though your saying that illustrates what Tupac’s sensing, doesn’t it?
As does:
And there’s that lick only thing …
LikeLike
Doug,
I’m a big fan of our adopted homegirl Camille Paglia; I find her to be an honest, brave and of course, eccentric academic and public intellectual and enjoy reading her musings on a wide range of issues. Your mentioning her name was a sight for sore eyes. Good lookin’ out.
And, your incisive analysis of Femx’s presentation gives much to consider as well.
O
LikeLike
JM:
JM, you were doing great right up until your last text. you should never tell a girl to give you a call because “you’ll be around”. with that one beta admission you ruined all your previous work. a better text to end it: “haha, yeah sure, i might give ya a buzz”.
LikeLike
doesn’t chick have a date with her vibrator right now?
LikeLike
Obsidian —
Thanks bro.
Yeah Camille Paglia is great. She seems to have sorta run out of steam though, sadly. Getting older for one thing I guess. Still she’s got a ton of good stuff out there.
For a guy who never went to college you sure have read widely — and well.
Actually, It’s been my observation that most people who know quite a lot taught most of it to themselves, outside of any class reading list.
LikeLike
ever since I made her change her avatar, chic hasn’t been the same
LikeLike
Yeah Camille Paglia is great.
I met Camille Paglia once in 1998 (yes, shameless namedropping) and very much enjoyed talking with her one-on-one. She was very pleasant and high-energy.
She’s great, but I’ll just point to two relatively small flaws in her thinking:
1) She’s comes across as conflicted between her conservative Italian-American working class values and her identification with the Democratic party, Obama et al. I think it’s a contradictoion that she hasn’t resolved, just lets teh two be in her side by side.
2) She tries to give a fair hearing to right wing conservatives and is very respectful to them in her Salon column. However, her idea of conservative seems to be more neocon – very Republican Party rah rah, very gung-ho pro-military invasions. To my knowledge, she’s never acknowledged Paleoconservative positions, particularly with regards to immmigration restrictionism.
LikeLike
Doug,
Thank you! I took what the Holy Prophet said seriously, that a Muslim should seek knowledge even if it take him to China. I may not have a lambskin on my wall, but I try to learn all I can from whatever environment I find myself in, and the learnin *never* ends.
I keep telling my Brothas on the bricks, to take advantage of this special period in time, that there was a time when a Black Man could be KILLED for trying to learn to read. We have people and places *giving* info away FOR FREE-take the internet for example. Its a treasure trove of info, Wikipedia alone is da bomb, provided you take it w/a grain of salt and do just a bit more homework.
I’ve said before that one of my all time heroes was Malcolm X, and I tried to emulate his self teaching regimen, reading as many as 5 or 6 non fiction books a month, no less than 300 pages each, and that didn’t include periodicals, newspapers and the like. I bought a good, tough walkman so I could listen to news radio all the time-I loved my hip hop music, but it was important for me to be “plugged in” as to what was going on in the world.
I was turned on to Rush Limbaugh as a kid in highschool by my grandfather, and it was there that I caught the Talk Radio Bug, Black and White alike. To this day, it’s stood me in good stead.
I hungout w/academics, and in fact became a part of a kind of informal discussion/debating group that would get together back in the early 90s; Man, I used to get guff all the time from the Old Heads for being the youngest guy in the room; if I had a buck for everytime I heard “Young Man”, LOL!
And, actually Doug, and I think T aka Ricky Raw has discussed this on his site using Frederick Douglass as an example, there is a tradition of “unorthodox approaches” toward education in Black America, a tradition that runs through Brother Minister Malcolm to the present day w/many of the rappers. You’d be surprised to actually read what they rap about once you sitdown and read some of the lyrcis. And I don’t mean the usual ganstas rap fare, either. I’m talking about some fairly sophisticated stuff, Man.
Anyway, always good to rub elbows w/a Stanford Man, home of the IQ test! When you can do that, you know you’re smarter than th average bear. 🙂
The Obsidian
LikeLike
JM–
On the off chance you care about my input after hearing Roissy’s I’ll just say he’s absolutely right.
As was Towson above who saw the same thing. His suggested substitute last text, which negs her about her flaking and from memory says something like “sure thing, flakey flakester”, strikes me as equally good and maybe better than Roissy’s.
Instead of saying you might contact her, you’re more or less making her chase you by qualifying herself to you by denying her flakiness or flakiness towards you – if she is going to have a shot at seeing you tomorrow.
LikeLike
Obsidian, dougjnn
Critics of this blog and it posters would call us sexually frustrated.
My guess is that if we are frustrated, we are frustrated intellectuals. I mean we chat about the pickup nugget of the day and then move on to other things.
[The above is only partly in jest.]
[starting to swing even further off topic]
I would imagine many here are (or were) frequent readers. After all man does not live by pussy alone.
This is not so much a pickup blog, but a gentleman’s club, a smoking room, and sometimes a locker room all rolled into one.
[random thoughts end]
LikeLike
Default,
Me, “frustrated”? Peshaw. I get as much pussy as I want, from two Women. Last weekend I spent a lazy Sunday afternoon slapping Brown Sugah’s pussy w/my hand till she was slimy wet, her girl goo sticky between my fingers like it was an Aliens flick. Then I delivered the Good Wood till she squirted all over the place. The Nurse ministers to the Tower of Power in timely fashion, which usually results in her getting a blast all over her 52G boobies, hair, throat and face, if not me hittin it so hard from da back that she passes a kidney stone.
So trust me, I’m far from “frustrated” lol.
I think this blog is very smart and broaches many topics that, to my mind, intertwines many themes concerning Game. There’s room for all of it.
O
LikeLike
Default User–
Yeah, I think that’s right. This is in part a men’s club. I don’t know about “gentleman’s club”. Well I do know and say, naaah, no thanks. Excludes too many really valuable guys.
But no, it’s first and foremost a pickup blog. Then it’s a gender realism blog. Which inherently when told by men involves a lot of anti-feminism. Around all those things has developed a men’s club.
With fun girls not too much in conflict welcome. They usually only stay awhile. That’s fine.
LikeLike
Obsidian
That really was my point.
LikeLike
Default–
Oh and yeah I meant to say that the level of frustration or not at all on here varies a whole lot.
Color me not at all. My girl is wonderful. Well mostly. No really, really good. As for sexually, hell. Hot.
I don’t even feel like cheating on her. Not yet anyway. Actually I wouldn’t cheat, but negotiate. But anyway, don’t feel like it. Happy.
LikeLike
Default,
Oh, and I wholeheartedly agree, I think this IS more a “gentleman’s club” than a straightahead, nuts and bolts PUA/Game blog. And I think that’s great! In many ways I admire Roissy for his verve and wit, even while we have some areas of friendly disagreement (Scarlett, lol). And I’m glad to be a part of the collquiy in the house that he has built.
O
LikeLike
Virgin@40 says “However, I’ve seen fat female friends that lost weight and, from nowhere, started to “bitch up”. Really nasty. I’ve not saw it once, I have identified it as a pattern.”
That “bitching up” comes from being perceived as physically more vulnerable. More men become more physicaly imposing, and since most women aren’t martial artists, they don’t know how to transition.
There are also unresolved anger issues about how they were treated when they were fat. Remember, U.S. culture is entitlement culture, and if a woman believed that guys should be attracted to her despite her appearance, then she was doing alot of denial or sucking up alot of pain to get through the day.
Once the extra fat is gone, or even at the point that it markedly reduces, guys who considered her sexually nonexistent or at least not the first choice in the past, may suddenly notice her.
In some cases though, the same guys who rejected her before, still reject her because the fat wasn’t as much the problem as perhaps some of the things that made her fat…like being a bitch, for instance.
Femx says, “I am pretty sure that when a woman says “I fucked him”, the meaning is clearly understood.”
Nowadays, it means she violated the sanctity of his anus.
LikeLike
Shit I am sexually frustrated lol going on 7 months.
In a month or so that will change for a couple days.
LikeLike
dougjnn
But we do have a lot of threads that end up covering race, history, culture etc.
I realize that some might take “gentleman’s club” to mean some kind of strip club. I merely was referring to any place where men can meet in a congenial and masculine atmosphere.
LikeLike
Gunslingergregi
Glad to hear that Gunslinger.
LikeLike
dougjnn
yea, the sure flakey mcflakester works.
I really like the the last one I mentioned, the ‘fine, but if you don’t, it was your last chance’
make it a point to let her know you don’t fuck around, if she’s gonna play games you’re not playing along, you’ll move on.
it’s incredible how much this reels em in
they always respond in a guilty tone, like they know they just fucked up. Then they try and make it up to you. good fun.
LikeLike
Yea jacking off every day don’t cut it. Which means robots probably won’t cut it. Got to get a real woman to beat. He He He.
LikeLike
Ok, I stand corrected.
You all want to call this a gentlemen’s club rather than a men’s club, I’m down with that.
Just anyone try to exclude Gunny and you got probs with me.
LikeLike
gunslinger, just curious as to why frustration for 7 months? military?
for the few months I’ve been reading you’ve always had some good insights here and I never would have assumed you go on a dryspell unless it just wasn’t available.
LikeLike
Doug,
I kinda like the notion of a “gentlemen’s club” and don’t fel excluded at all; recently there was some talk about Dandies. As you might guess, I did some study on the matter, and found that its a lot more profound than one might think.
I consider myself a Dandy of sorts, in that I consider myself a self made Man-as you noted earlier, I’m largely self-educated, though not formally lettered. This is the very essence of Dandyism as I understand it, a statement, a commentary, on the oddities of the ruling or upper classes and so on.
So, if this be a gentlemen’s club its perfect for me, a self made one. 🙂
O
LikeLike
I am on a self inflicted dry spell in iraq.
LikeLike
dougjnn
Exclude Gunny, no way.
Speaking of excluding people. This made me laugh.
From: http://roissy.wordpress.com/female-photo-submissions/#comment-70093
One of the reasons for using the xB browser is to get around IP bans.
LikeLike
…and that cab driver thing, this is why I don’t let a guy do anything for me that might make him think I owe him until we’re actually in a committed relationship, and rarely even then.
I’m not against generosity or something, but I think it should go both ways, and be in an appropriate context. One discounted ride is cool, but the tip is still going to at least cover it. After that, if the guy offers, a girl should politely decline, and state that it is because she doesn’t feel comfortable with exploiting someone’s generosity. A chain of indebtedness is often how these things get started.
Also, if someone doesn’t get the point that I’m not interested, and it’s never going to happen (or never going to happen again in the case of an ex) he gets to see my psycho side. One has to be willing to be crazier in self defense than one’s potential stalker, and make that known when hints of the problem might start.
LikeLike
ah ok, I figured, well stay safe then and of course, splurge the poon immediately when you get back.
LikeLike
Goes along the vain of
“Success requires sacrifice.”
“Knowing is not enough; we must apply!
Goethe”
Yea I am not just talking shit when I tell people anyone can make it. I mean it and I live it on a daily basis.
Yea I will be enjoying the fruits of some of my labor he he he
LikeLike
I was sexually frustrated once for a record of 12 days. Army excercises, with ZERO privacy.
By the eleventh night, it was a miracle I didn’t have a wet dream. I remember a feverish dream of dancing wraiths, howling and taunting.
On the twelfth day of celibacy, I was like Meatloaf in “Paradise by the Dashboard Lights”:
Half-crazed, I went into a filthy portajohn and had the best “sex” I’ve ever had up until that point. It’s a wonder the portajohn didn’t fall over as I exploded over everything.
LikeLike
plus he broke down to base so he must be human at least
LikeLike
Ob:
Last weekend I spent a lazy Sunday afternoon slapping Brown Sugah’s pussy w/my hand till she was slimy wet, her girl goo sticky between my fingers like it was an Aliens flick.
lol
Nicole:
Femx says, “I am pretty sure that when a woman says “I fucked him”, the meaning is clearly understood.”
Nowadays, it means she violated the sanctity of his anus.
It’s always about the ass with you people.
PA:
Half-crazed, I went into a filthy portajohn and had the best “sex” I’ve ever had up until that point. It’s a wonder the portajohn didn’t fall over as I exploded over everything.
Ugh. As if I didn’t already have reason enough to avoid those portapotties. Ugh.
LikeLike
Tupac,
LOL, you have a way w/that ye olde cut n paste!
Good money, man.
O
LikeLike
Tupac says, “It’s always about the ass with you people.”
The ass is the engine of sex. The genitals only receive the benefits.
LikeLike
Tupac says, “It’s always about the ass with you people.”
Black people are indiscriminate about which hole they do what to. Penis, fingers, tongue – all holes are of equal status.
LikeLike
Anon,
If that’s true, why are White folks, particularly guys, so gaa gaa for anal sex?
O
LikeLike
“Anon,
If that’s true, why are White folks, particularly guys, so gaa gaa for anal sex?”
Who says they are? I am not.
Roissy appears to be, but I don’t think that is normal.
LikeLike
“Black people are indiscriminate about which hole they do what to. Penis, fingers, tongue – all holes are of equal status.”
Come on, anon. You know that is not true. It is absurd, actually.
LikeLike
Roissy sprinkles his anecdotes with anal-sex references to emphasize the sluttiness of the women. The references are almost never gratuitous.
See here.
—
Each hole provides a different and unique delight, and, to properly dominate a woman, it’s essential to “collect all 3” on the regular.
LikeLike
Fellas,
I’m not necessarily knocking anyone’s sexual practices, hey, I’m a live and let live kind of guy. I was just responding to the notion that somehow Black folks got the corner on things like anal sex. Been Black all my life, trust me, most Sistas don’t get down like that. When you run accross such a gal, its a rare treat indeed.
O
LikeLike
Anonymous–
(I’m just now noticing this.)
That just about pins ‘tarded.
Not much more to say than that.
LikeLike
“Been Black all my life, trust me, most Sistas don’t get down like that. When you run accross such a gal, its a rare treat indeed.”
Betatude points for you.
LikeLike
” você não manda em mim.”
Bh bh bh… this is an ENGLISH LANGUAGE BLOG. It’s a matter of education only.
“Não me interessa sua opinião sobre o presidente do Brasil. Ele é um merda, eu concordo. Você também.
Um forte abraço.”
Okay, I like you now. Do as you’re pleased. Just don’t lower this thing, it’s not worth it. And I don’t even care a fuck.
A tight hug to you too, darling.
LikeLike
Damn Doug, I have to highlight your very true answer to Miss Feminist. So fucking true, great post.
“In contrast I doubt there’s a single man on this board, betas and alphas alike, who haven’t come into contact with blatant misandry all the freaking time.”
Always, really. Not that women cannot be good to men nowadays, but they are always in the anti-man mode.
“Hell, all you have to do is watch American TV, esp. sitcoms. Or go to an American University. Or talk to any strident feminist and a lot of the less strident ones. And so on.”
Or Western European, or Latin American, or whatever. It is Civilisational. Eastern Europe will be fucking next.
“As well, most of the men here (with some notable venomous exceptions) don’t really hate women generally.”
I do not. I have all the reasons to do it because they do indeed fuck the entire society and are a pain in the ass. I just can’t hate them despite all.
“It’s more that they (or the betas anyway) are working on feeling one up over them (whereas they’ve been propaganized all their life to feel the opposite and actually in many ways downright deferential to women and their feelings)”
As a beta, beta, beta, I can tell that is the truth. Look to how I behave towards my ten: I do everything just to see her once a week, fuck, once a month. I do everything, I almost lose friends, just to hear her say, “oops, I’m very buisy this month”. Fuck, I can’t the fuck even turn my head and say no, fuck off, to old Jeova whitness women.
“What men do do around here all the freaking time though is not only dispense and react to game tips, but also warn each other about various aspects of various kinds of women — and about the horrors of feminist law divorce for men.”
It’s a shame we’ve descended so far as to this be needed.
LikeLike
“This is not so much a pickup blog, but a gentleman’s club, a smoking room, and sometimes a locker room all rolled into one.”
Yeah, Default User!
We should arrange and meet eachother, Bilderberg style.
LikeLike
Virgin40-
You really need to stop that with your “10” you know. Focus on trying some game on some 6’s to begin with. With success work up to a 7.
You don’t have to be crudely rude about it, particularly with unattractive women, who should get reasonably gentle treatment if they aren’t being rude to you, just as a matter of decency. You should however quickly dismiss them. Be short with them, not mean. Get over thinking that being short is being mean.
LikeLike
I took a look at feminstx’s blog. (Nude photo guys.) Yeah, she’s hot.
What’s weird is that she plans to get married. I don’t think the guy is going to be real happy with her in the bedroom. It sounds like she wouldn’t even be happy with hugging.
LikeLike
Formerly omega, has this site helped you become beta rather than omega? You seem like a nice guy.
Don’t worry about the guy who marries me. He’ll be just fine.
Virgin@40 et all,
stop blaming my feminist kind for your troubles with women. All we did was partake in encouraging sexual freedom. Blaming us is like the poor blaming those who allow capitalism.
LikeLike
@feministx
You just think I’m nice because I said you were hot, LOL.
No it took lots of psychological counseling, plus developing psychological work-arounds to deal with my Asperger’s, plus advancement in my career so that I made good money.
I guess you won’t be the first wife who couldn’t stand sex with her husband but had a good marriage. But *most* husbands don’t know that about their wives before the wedding. You’ve put it all out there on your blog.
LikeLike
There are some interesting point of views and sides to this argument. I read a few comments from girls saying they would roll their eyes at me and walk away….things of this nature. My response to this type of a comment would be this:
The way you read these scenarios and imagine them in your head don’t really happen how you think. There is a lot to this equation that you are missing. Subtle things that happen, stories to long to write in a single blog entry, glances that mean more than words can express. These are things that are also tried and tested, and become intuitive. Maybe you would roll your eyes at me and walk away, but it has yet to happen. Maybe I have left some girls hanging, but you don’t see me complaining.
I also saw some things saying it sounds too canned and that we are making things too complicated, breaking it down like this. The thing is, it’s not canned at all. Say whatever you want. Or don’t…that is they key. What you do prior to leaving is more important than what you say as you are leaving. It is true that you have to build up attraction, and some sexual tension. If you can’t do it, then your closing statement is the least of your problems. And I use methods for everything because I do what works….It is just more efficient….
LikeLike
[…] verified the technique: I have run similar number closing game on girls, and I can inform you this reverse psychology […]
LikeLike
I have a different take. If I sensed that the convo was going really well (meaning she’s laughing and hitting me), I’d just ask to exchange info flat out. There’s no need for overkill. However, if I had a reasonable doubt, I’d probably politely end the convo and then see if she offers up the digits. In my experience, this never happens though, even if the girl is extremely interested. This is especially true of black women. If you don’t ask for the number, they will take it as an unequivocal sign that you’re not interested. No woman, especially a good looking one, is going to put herself out there like that. Girls are so risk-averse.
LikeLike
As Vince Lombardi once said: “Don’t complicate winning.”
LikeLike