Maybe I should start an ‘Alpha of the Month’ series. Check out this guy:
A man who stopped paying alimony payments to his Clay County ex-wife five years ago and moved to Indonesia — out of the reach of law enforcement — was arrested Friday when he returned to town for a wedding.
The Clay County Sheriff’s Office said David Evans owes his wife $188,000 in alimony payments.
$188,000. Say it to yourself. ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY-EIGHT THOUSAND. For saying “I do”. There is not a woman alive whose blowjob technique merits $188,000 in recompense. The alimony payday is state-sanctioned theft, pure and simple.
I’ve long advocated that should you find yourself on the assramming end of the divorce industrial complex, your best bet is to shift your assets overseas and leave the country. Our hero flipped the bird at our anti-male laws, and for that, I salute him. The fact that he slipped up and stupidly returned to the US five years later for a wedding (irony alert) shouldn’t detract from his admirable heroism in the field of battle. I bestow upon him the greatest honor a man can receive — membership in the Heartiste Society, including the wrought-iron triskelion ring which will grant him access to the chateau.
If alphas have a ‘look’, then this guy has it:
“STEEEEEELLAAAAA!!!!”
At this point, it hardly matters what this guy did or didn’t do in the run-up to his divorce. He may have cheated, lied and stolen, or his wife may have boffed his cousin. The marriage culture has degenerated to such a nadir that these piddling he said-she said details are of little concern in the face of the larger injustice. Absent children and proof of fault, there is no good reason a man should owe his ex-wife ONE RED CENT in the event of a divorce. If she stayed at home becoming best friends with Oprah instead of advancing in a pointless public relations career, that is her body her choice, and the consequences are hers to grapple with. To believe otherwise is to believe that the state should treat women like children, incapable of accounting for their own life choices. And if that’s the standard by which the state will act with regards to women’s post-marital entitlements, then I suggest the state extend its paternalistic logic to other realms in which women operate. A repeal of female voting rights would be a good start.
If a woman initiates divorce from a man and children are involved, unless she can prove fault by her husband she should not even get child support. I can already hear the disingenuous whining. “But the children will suffer! Think of the children!” If the children are suffering she can always stay with her husband, give them to the husband if she decides to ditch him, or put the kids up for adoption. If she wishes to give the kids to the ex-husband, but he’d rather not have his freedom and funtime curtailed by babysitting duties (and I wouldn’t blame him), *and* the divorce was his fault, he can have the option of paying child support in lieu of physically raising them.
Any woman who has a problem with what I wrote has revealed herself to be a leech intent on riding the gravy train. Humans will cling to nothing as tenaciously as a structurally advantageous power position. In America 2009, the emergent marriage and divorce conspiracy is such an obviously raw deal for men that it’s a wonder they still bother. The fear must be strong in many men. If I were the hypothetical leader of this conspiracy, I would target young, religious men for marriage who were too naive to know any better.
There are ways to save marriage, but I can sleep easy at night knowing no one will take up the cause. My lifestyle will remain unchallenged.
To recap: Don’t get married. At least when you break up with a girlfriend you don’t have to provide her with a retirement plan.
Amen.
As I’ve said brothers, more and more Men are simply going off the grid, and there are many ways to do so. As this case clearly shows though, once you get low, you have to stay low. Can’t go back, don’t even look back, somethin might be gainin’ on ya.
Alpha of the Month? I like that idea…
The Obsidian
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“If a woman initiates divorce from a man and children are involved, unless she can prove fault by her husband she should not even get child support. I can already hear the disingenuous whining. “But the children will suffer! Think of the children!””
I thought women were equal? I thought they could have careers and make as much as a man and that it was OK to be a single mother? Have we forgotten Dan Quayle being raked over the coals for complaining about TV character Murphy Brown becoming a single mom and the example that storyline set?
If women are equal and perfectly capable of being single mothers by choice, then the children will not suffer if there are no child support payments after a divorce.
If that’s not the case then, as you point out, we need to re-evaluate the entire legal code when it comes to women.
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That’s nothing, you wanna see a real hero check out H. Beatty Chadwick.
http://freebeattychadwick.blogspot.com/
He’s been in locked up for going on 13 YEARS now for refusing to divulge the whereabouts of millions he transferred out of the country before his divorce. This just goes to show the insanity and injustice of a system that allows a man to be deprived of his freedom for over a decade without a trial or conviction.
Even more galling is that in 2002 he was very close to getting out when a federal judge ordered his release. The order was overturned on appeal in an opinion written by none other than now Supreme Court Justice Sam Alito. You know there is no hope for reform when a judge supposedly as conservative and committed to traditional values as Alito refuses to recognize this patent injustice.
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Here, here. And hear.
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Memorable moments in Streetcar Named Desire:
Stanley Kowalski: I never met a dame yet that didn’t know if she was good-looking or not without being told, and there’s some of them that give themselves credit for more than they’ve got.
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You have advocated in the past that women shouldn’t concern themselves with higher education or better paying jobs, yet women should do precisely that in order to implement your plan. Alimony is an insurance policy for those with poor paying or non existent jobs that put their eggs in the beauty basket. Not a smart plan in my opinion.
Unless the real goal is to have the divorce rate take a nose dive.
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You know, the law is actually gender neutral. A wealthy woman will have to give up half her estate and pay alimony just the same.
Men choose to make more money and marry younger hotties. Young hottie won’t pursue a career if she knows her man is going to bring the bones home for her.
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As a young Catholic man who takes my faith seriously I fully intend on getting married. I’m a virgin by choice in my twenties, and not for lack of opportunities. My parents have done a great job staying together and I hope to raise a large family if that’s God’s will.
It is not like I can’t see the writing on the wall for modern western culture. Misandric marriage laws coupled with ‘beta’ misogyny foretells a demographic and cultural disaster. I believe one commenter aptly described your blog as picking the lock on the liquor cabinet as the Titanic sinks. Given the past seventy years I’d say its already on its way down.
I’m going to marry a foreign young lady. Hopefully that way we’ll have a fighting chance together.
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And yet here we have a national organization for lawyers (ALI) lobbying for *increasing* alimony scales across all 50 states. Now with 60% of college graduates being women, what could their logic be for even demanding such an increase? Are women going back to being chattle in large numbers that they urge such legal change?
Their reason is none other than lining their own pockets no doubt. Nothing keeps the BILLABLE HOURS coming in like two divorcing spouses fighting like rabid dogs over alimony. The woman motivated by greed, and the guy motivated by raw fear. The more they struggle, the more the cash register goes cha-ching for the lawyer (and the judge whose courtroom is always busy and merry):
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/30/us/legal-group-urges-states-to-update-their-family-law.html
This ALI recommendation is a transparent attempt to line their pockets. I am surprised no one called it out at the time (2002). It would be different if the Blogs existed like they do back then.
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Child support should be done by men directly, according to their own sense of what’s right, not ordered by the state and paid to the ex wife. True joint custody should also be the norm, certainly when fathers want it.
Women should have to earn any support they receive for themselves and their children from men, by staying with them. Or, if they wish to live independently of any man, then they can be financially independent as well.
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Re jail terms: as Obsidian once stated very well, at a certain point a man needs to accept that he is not afraid of anything, particularly a legal system that he considers unjust or illegitimate.
So at one point, a guy might just say — you wanna throw me inprison? fine. But she’s still not getting any alimony from me.
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Here is the money quote from the ALI report:
An influential group of lawyers and judges has recommended sweeping changes in family law that would increase alimony and property rights for many divorced women, while extending such rights for the first time to many cohabiting domestic partners, both heterosexual and gay.
The proposals, from the American Law Institute, seek to update family law to reflect changes in society over the last 30 years. One conclusion, for example, is that if a spouse has committed adultery, it should not affect a judge’s decision about alimony or marital property.
Sick isn’t it?
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Frreeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddddooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!
NO marrrrriaaaaaaaagggggggggeeeeeeeeeeee.
Slaves are made in these ways.
And this is 21st century it is tooo amazing to believe.
Or get married but the only way out is a body bag.
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“””””””””””””Obsidian
Amen.
As I’ve said brothers, more and more Men are simply going off the grid, and there are many ways to do so. As this case clearly shows though, once you get low, you have to stay low. Can’t go back, don’t even look back, somethin might be gainin’ on ya.
Alpha of the Month? I like that idea…
The Obsidian””””””””””””””””””””
Bro You can drop off the grid without suffering. Say that a few times. You can drop off the grid without suffering. You just save money invest and don’t lose it all on stocks. He He He
Make 3 times what da makes and chill.
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Brilliant.
Some other advice . . . if you do get married, have an asset protection plan in place. Nevada is the best state to form an LLC or FLP and trust to manage your dough. You can also visit the strip clubs. Nevada has more protective case law, more privacy rules in your favor, less regulations, no state taxes, and lower formation costs.
Have your attorney there be the designated manager and signatory for the entities’ formation, thereby keeping your name off the initial formation paperwork. After official formation, have him resign as general manager the next day, after which you fund the entities following your receipt of the paperwork of formation and his resignation.
At this point, you officially become a ghost.
Start putting your assets in the LLC or FLP and this will protect them when your ex-wife starts trying to steal them. Also, put your IRA, 401K or retirement plan into Pension Limited Partnership in Nevada, and it’s safe up to 500K. Depending on state law, file a declaration of homestead.
Have the business you own or your employer hire and pay your trust (which you control) for your services, have the trust pay you a nominal salary and you thereby lower your salary which the judge looks at when it comes time for the judge to decide your alimony and child support payments. Build equity and the trust and transfer over to the FLP that handles your liquid assets.
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Sick isn’t it?
Marriage is dead in this country. Only a fool would consider it.
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feministx
No it is not.
First of all women virtually always get child custody. With that comes huge transfer payments from her ex husband that will amount to about 40-45% of his after tax income if he’s a professional level earning man. As I illustrated a week or so ago to Tood, if both spouses earned the same 100K before tax and child support=alimony transfer payments, that would result in her getting something like $115 after tax and him $55k.
Gender neutral my ass.
Further, it’s hardly gender neutral to ignore the fact that women by and large continue to want to marry up (in status and income), and men to marry younger and pretty and down some (or a lot) is fine.
All of that is fine. What isn’t fine is the co-ercise power of the state in divorce.
Men still essentially can’t believe, and are utterly shocked, that a wife can massively cheat, and still kick him out of the house he entirely paid for and still is, take more than half his money including all her legal expenses and maintenance during the pendency of the divorce, and tax him hugely for two decades into the future.
If men commit adultery their wives can economically punish them for it enormously. And often do.
If women commit adultery they can STILL economically punish their ex husband for their own transgressions enormously, which they’re very likely to do, since when women cheat and fall in love with a lover, unlike men they usually stop having any interest in sex with their husband and THEMSELVES want to leave the relationship.
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You should start an “Alpha of the Month” series. People need examples of alphaness to emulate, not just beta sinkholes to avoid.
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Being a man sure is hard. Don’t even get me started on how hard it is for white people, with all that PC bullshit.
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Bravo – all true. The most important point: structurally advantageous power position. It’s pretty clear the current divorce laws date to a period when women earned much less and had far fewer professional options, which is certainly not the case today. On average, with union manufacturing jobs vanishing, women are on track to earn *more* on average than men, across the whole economy. But the situation continues to favor women wrt alimony, child custody, and child support.
Interesting point about the divorce bar lobbying for alimony increases – I hadn’t seen that. Good analysis.
Courts are not as much to blame as legislatures – to see any meaningful change, you’d have to get state legislatures and Congress to act to adopt a more balanced view of male and female rights post-divorce, based on real data. But that goes so strongly agaist the grain of the reigning ideology that it’s not likely to happen. Certainly not in the Pelosi/Obama era ….
But If only one state set up a more male-friendly regime (Nevada? Florida? Texas?), might it have a positive, snowball effect, as men started to initiate their proceedings there and the nation took note of the harmess and fair decisions?
There would have to be an organized lobby, a constituency, pushing for it, and there’s no signs at all of a male equivalent to NOW and all the other heavily funded, aggressive, biased feminist lobby groups and think tanks that have been successfully pushing that agenda for decades. Very depressing to think about it this way …
Also: Indonesia? xsplat, is that you?
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“Further, it’s hardly gender neutral to ignore the fact that women by and large continue to want to marry up (in status and income), and men to marry younger and pretty and down some (or a lot) is fine.”
I feel sad for men, actually. Their biology makes them have such stupid sexual desires. Women want wealth, which accumulates and increases, intelligence and status which either stays the same or increases with career advancement. Men on the other hand want what will depreciate- prettiness, youth and a slender body. If men had sense, they’d game a rich girl and marry for wealth and status.
But while I admit that child custody is awarded on an unfair basis, if there are no children involved, the law is fair. Marriage is an agreement to enter a state of communal ownership with another person. The law divides the estate by half and awards alimony when half the estate needs a larger income to maintain. It’s not a sexist law.
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a random alpha is cool, but start a whole “alpha of the month” series is pretty gay. Anyway, David Evans, I salute you.
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It is really my contention that the justice system has it in the worst for white males. Women get all the custody rights, special privileges, and they get money for their failure to function in a marriage. I say kudos to this guy for sticking it to this bitch and America’s skewed idea of justice.
No woman is worth that much money.
Totally in agreement about repealing their right to vote, and I think we need to apply the same to minorities as well. Down with special privileges!
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Just what does a woman promise to a man in an American marriage these days, anyway?
Does she promise him that she’s have sex with him? Hell no. (The very thought of that brings crys of rape to American feminist and really now mainstream “post feminist” American female lips, thank you the likes of feministx, the enemy of men.)
Does she in these equal female earning power times and heavy presence of women in all levels in the workforce promise to bear equally with him the financial burdens of family life, as their respective work fortunes and successes should pan out? Hell no. All decisions as to whether or not she should work, and how much, or whether it should be in an income maximizing fashion as opposed to a status or “enrichment” and “job satisfaction” maximizing one instead are acccording to our feminist influenced culture supposed to be entirely up to her. Anything other than agreeing support from her husband will be viewed as “controlling” and all around odious.
Does she really promise to stay with him through sickness or if he becomes notably poorer? Hell no. Divorce goes way up when a man loses his job and doesn’t get a comparable or better one soon, but doesn’t at all when the wife loses hers, or simply decides she’d rather not work, or work much, any more.
Does she automatically or by custom promise to give him kids? Certainly not. Any such assumption reeks of the patriarchy and is thoroughly out. Instead again it’s entirely a matter of what will make her happiest. By the same token, woe be to an American husband who fails to agree to have children when his wife wants them. That would be unspeakably selfish of him. Of course she can just have them anyway, with him having no say so whatsoever, and the support of the sisterhood — and the law should he decide to divorce her. He’ll have to pay for her kids that he didn’t want anyway.
All in all, what a DEAL marriage has become!!!
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This guy really blew it by coming back to the US.
People on the run rarely get caught; unless they return home.
Tip of the day:
Keep an escape route ready and if you ever use it, don’t come back.
Then again, why would you return to the US?
– MPM
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feministrix, the dyke:
“A wealthy woman will have to give up half her estate and pay alimony just the same.”
—show me a woman who is wealthy and I’ll show you a cunt who stole it from a man in divorce proceedings.
women don’t make shit; they are parasites on the wealth and creations of man. Were it not for biological necessity, man would have thrown your skanky asses to the wolves long ago.
Islam’s got it right on that account.
Await the realistic sex bots and artificial wombs, gentlemen. And I say this as a man who has never thought robot could replace flesh. I hope they damn well do.
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Feministx
She can just sell her half to live off of until she gets a job. If she already gets half a man’s stuff, there’s no reason he should have to work to keep her comfortable. They are essentially starting off on the same footing.
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feministx
The enemy of men.
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feministx–
Why on earth would I want to subject myself to that, when I earned or otherwise cleaverly created nearly all of it through my awesomeness, and she’s no longer doing it for me, and we’re splitting.
Hey, I’m a generous guy and unless she’s been heinous, sure, something nice, but half. You’re kidding right?
No way sister. Not a chance. Not from this cat.
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“She can just sell her half to live off of until she gets a job. If she already gets half a man’s stuff, there’s no reason he should have to work to keep her comfortable. They are essentially starting off on the same footing.”
The lower income earner often will get a house while the other partner gets other assets such as a retirement fund or investments. But the lower income earner still isn’t able to immediately pay the mortgage on the house because they have been out of the workforce for so long, so alimony gives them time to be able to either earn enough to keep the house or be forced to sell it.
It is hard for a person who has been out of the workforce to suddenly have to pay insurances and a mortgage on assets their career cannot support.
Think of a case where a woman raises children as a housewife and then the minute they turn 18, he leaves for a younger woman. She would be forced to sell her house and car and return to a low income living without alimony. This is unfair because the couple would have made a joint decision about her forgoing a career in order to stay home and raise the children.
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@RJS – good info on Nevada. Not exactly what I was posting about, but a good start on the assets front. Could you post a link with more details?
@FemX – good point, actually, about male desire being financially perverse and female desire financially savvy – based on hardwiring 10,000 years ago in the savannahs of Africa. Beauty is a rapidly depreciating asset, so a rent is better than a buy. the importance of the “hindbrains” is discussed here a lot wrt attraction, game, etc. but the financial implications are out of whack with 21st-c. realities. The courts should not back the hindbrains here.
The “communal property” argument is based on sustaining a lifestyle, an income, that one party, always the woman, nas “become accustomed to” and needs to “sustain” without necessarily being able or willing to work to earn that income. That’s where the bias lies in the alimony decisions. If a woman initiates divorce without cause, then it should be clear that she is voluntarily losing acccess to that lifestyle that the husband has provided. And if she was unfaithful, even more so.
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“Marriage is an agreement to enter a state of communal ownership with another person.”
Having legally eliminated everything that actually makes a marriage a marriage, it has deteriorated into meaninglessness.
Anyone else find it funny that in order to be a “strong, independent women”, women need and demand subsidies (alimony, government handouts, etc) which come overwhelmingly from milking men?
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“”””””””””””””””””It is hard for a person who has been out of the workforce to suddenly have to pay insurances and a mortgage on assets their career cannot support. “”””””””””””””””””
Get a house you can fucking afford. Every American I know who has an american wife has a 250k house that when they go home they can barely afford. It is retarded.
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ASDF
Do not agree to let her have half your stuff. There’s not fair about that when it’s you that’s earned it and she’s lived a much easier life on your toil and brainy awesomeness.
Letting her have half your stuff only makes some kind of sense when it doesn’t amount to diddly squat. Not otherwise.
Note, she get’s half is a new feminist invention, particularly as applied to big estates. The old rule was that she should be comfortable — (in the case of well off men) — and even then that was only when he was the one “at fault”. I.e. he wanted out of the marriage or was caught cheating.
BTW, I don’t think that male cheating should constitute fault. Male fault she more be sexual abandonment of his wife, provided she’s kept herself attractive including in how she acts. It’s not fault to not want to boink a whale or a harridan.
Or a lesbian pretending to be bi, like feministx.
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Think of a case where a woman raises children as a housewife and then the minute they turn 18, he leaves for a younger woman. She would be forced to sell her house and car and return to a low income living without alimony. This is unfair because the couple would have made a joint decision about her forgoing a career in order to stay home and raise the children.
This is where no-fault is the problem.
If you turn the facts around on that slightly and imagine that the woman leaves for another man as soon as the kids turn 18, why on earth should she get the windfall of alimony? That makes no sense.
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Alimony (which few women today get in appreciable form) is basically a bribe to have women act against their own interest. If you know that you can be dumped at any time, and thrown out on the street with no way to protect yourself, who would stay at home with the kids, or slow down on their career, or advance their spouses career at the expense of their own? It would make more sense to work, and most women have correctly surmised this, and work now. However alimony is more of an insurance policy, to make sure that the spouse that you sacrificed for, and built from the ground up, doesn’t decide they need an upgrade, and dump your ass, with nary a penny to show for it. But, as stated before, alimony is own is way out in most states, and is not routinely granted anymore, even though it still seems to be the big bogeyman of “men’s rights” type people everywhere. However if you made an agreement to share your life, assets, and take care of any children resulting from the union of you and your spouse (which is what marriage is), then it is hard to complain when that ends being what you do.
PS When men sue for custody, they tend to win 45-60% of the time according to most estimates. However, most men are uninterested in having sole physical custody of the kids.
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My woman owned her own house before I met her. No mortgage. This is the type of shit american men need to require from there woman. With her own work and own savings she had a house built.
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“I feel sad for men, actually. Their biology makes them have such stupid sexual desires. Women want wealth, which accumulates and increases, intelligence and status which either stays the same or increases with career advancement. Men on the other hand want what will depreciate- prettiness, youth and a slender body. If men had sense, they’d game a rich girl and marry for wealth and status.”
This is SO idiotic it’s hard to believe it’s serious. You might as well berate dogs as stupid for wanting to play fetch or flamencos for “choosing” to be such awful hue of pink. Human sexual desires, an instrument of biological reproduction, is as natural as the desire to eat (an instrument of staying alive). Young and pretty are indicators of reproductive health.
You’ve lost all credibility. Not that you had any in this space, but now you cant even maintain the illusion of intelligence.
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Alimony is obscene.
Alimony in this age of equal female economic opportunity is absolutely obscene.
Just completely obscene.
Rule it out entirely in the prenup.
If she needs to for awhile, let her live off a hunk of change in the property settlement.
But get the idea of half completely out of your mind.
Instead divide in proportion to earnings, and then only the increase post marriage (the marital property), not what you brought into it. On top of that some hunk of change for being a mother, if she is.
You can always be more generous voluntarily if the facts of the breakup merit that.
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Think of a case where a woman raises children as a housewife and then the minute they turn 18, he leaves for a younger woman. She would be forced to sell her house and car and return to a low income living without alimony. This is unfair because the couple would have made a joint decision about her forgoing a career in order to stay home and raise the children.
This is fair because for years she had every financial need taken care of by another human being. Why should that human being owe her anything more? She chose to forgo a career. Her body, her choice.
Women cannot have it both ways. If you girls want a society where you have equal careers, then you suffer the consequences when you fail to pursue a career. Period. If you want alimony in a divorce, then your career is your husband, family, and home, and you stay in that home and do the best you can with your career as a wife and mother to earn your life which is completely free of financial obligation or worry.
Make your choice.
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Many people commenting here see marriage as the problem. Marriage is not the problem – divorce is the problem. Divorce often affects women more so financially than it does men, hence the need for alimony. What will the woman do, who is most likely left with the children and the house to pay / care for, when her husband is gone? Numerous studies have shown that divorce more negatively impacts a woman than a man, particularly financially (single mothers are the poorest sectors of society, and not only monetarily).
I have sympathy for men in divorce, too – this leaves them virtually without a home / social haven. But the real loser is the woman, who is often left with responsibility for children and a certain stigma that men may have an easier time to escape.
The solution is to have more stable marriages, a society that values marriage as a structured part of a well-functioning society. Marriage is not the enemy.
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A few thoughts.
Pre nup agreements.
Own all property in land trusts.
Setup a wyoming corp. with a nominee and deed everything else into it.
Do this BEFORE you marry.
The rest is morals. If one partner sacrificed for you such that that partner couldn’t make a living of their own, and was dependent upon you, while you were the bread winner, than if neither partner was a party in adultery, it is fair and just and beautiful and a mark of a man’s benevolence generosity and virtue to leave his wife with some mutually agreed upon financial support for some time until she gets to her feet, or in the case of a stay at home dad, the wife should leave the husband something.
Hence a pre-nup that contains this stipulation.
People should have some basic fairness and generosity, in defiance of the cold soul killing nature of our society today.
If, if, the man is the guilty party in adultery, this is one matter. The man should pay. Within reason. If he broke the terms of the marriage contract. He should not be drained like a spigot and such support should be limited in term and scope.
If a wife cheats and this is the cause of the divorce she should get nothing. Period. Nada.
If she cuckolded him resulting in a bastard child he mistook for his own, SHE should have to PAY HIM a fair and just sum. A sort of psychological wergeld for the emotional murder she subjected him to.
This is fair, and just, and anyone who disagrees has a moral compass that is seriously skewed. Cheating is a breech of contract, a breech of the terms of the marriage partnership. And it is a partnership, and contractual agreement, all romantic b.s. put aside.
We have been conditioned to live in a fairy tale world, the results of which are ugly. Humanity does not live by the law of the jungle in civilization, we rise above the jungle, but we cannot forget the basic rock bottom terms of human nature.
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“Young and pretty are indicators of reproductive health.
”
Youth is an indication of repro health. Prettiness is not. Given the small family size people want and the possibility for fertility treatment, prettiness has zero value outside itself.
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Anonymous–
You’re an intentionally misleading aka LYING SACK OF SHIITE.
Men only sue for custody in the great majority of cases when they have a real shot at winning it. That essentially requires taht the wife be a hard drugs addict, an actual whore, have a long history of having actually and provably severely mistreated the children (as opposed to make up female charges without evidence which are often believed). Even in these kinds of cases men often lose.
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“Alimony (which few women today get in appreciable form) is basically a bribe to have women act against their own interest. If you know that you can be dumped at any time, and thrown out on the street with no way to protect yourself, who would stay at home with the kids, or slow down on their career, or advance their spouses career at the expense of their own? It would make more sense to work, and most women have correctly surmised this, and work now. However alimony is more of an insurance policy, to make sure that the spouse that you sacrificed for, and built from the ground up, doesn’t decide they need an upgrade, and dump your ass, with nary a penny to show for it. But, as stated before, alimony is own is way out in most states, and is not routinely granted anymore, even though it still seems to be the big bogeyman of “men’s rights” type people everywhere. However if you made an agreement to share your life, assets, and take care of any children resulting from the union of you and your spouse (which is what marriage is), then it is hard to complain when that ends being what you do.
PS When men sue for custody, they tend to win 45-60% of the time according to most estimates. However, most men are uninterested in having sole physical custody of the kids.”
Thank you. This is correct. Alimony is not awarded in most states. Some 4% of children are fathered by a man other than the man who thinks he is the father. Men do not usually want custody of the children they father. When they do, high earning women often end up paying more in divorce settlements than men would in order to prevent the man from getting full custody. Men like K-fed do sue for custody simply in order to get money even when they are not really interested in raising the children (granted he happens to be a better parent than Brit).
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I would target young, religious men for marriage who were too naive to know any better.
Whatever you say about young, naive, religious men, they do tend to make demands on their women, sometimes quite stringent demands. Many of them demand that their future wives be virgins before marriage. (See here for advice on that topic. 😉 ) Needless to say that not many feminists are likely to take that up. Likewise Jonathan Jones, Catholic blogger and sometime commenter here, made a comment on my blog about how important it was that his future wife agree with him on birth control issues. Again, not likely to attract feminist conspirators. I think it was sociologist Rodney Stark who has noted that more demanding religions are those that provide the most utility. They weed out the free riders.
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This is SO idiotic it’s hard to believe it’s serious. You might as well berate dogs as stupid for wanting to play fetch or flamencos for “choosing” to be such awful hue of pink. Human sexual desires, an instrument of biological reproduction, is as natural as the desire to eat (an instrument of staying alive).
I see what she is saying. So many on this very blog wring their hands or lambast the typical female desire for the strong, powerful, rich, etc. The female desire for these things is often blamed for the downfall of society. Yet, male desire is any better. The male favoritism for the pretty isn’t much more virtuous or better for society then female preference for the dominant. Both sexes tend to choose the idiotic on superficial qualities, which is what happens when either sex is allowed to make mate choices less constrained by families or society.
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I feel sad for men, actually. Their biology makes them have such stupid sexual desires. Women want wealth, which accumulates and increases, intelligence and status which either stays the same or increases with career advancement. Men on the other hand want what will depreciate- prettiness, youth and a slender body.
The fundamental error here is the view that men and women are biologically the same and thus should want the same things. The male produces a lot of seed, and his desire to spread his seed as widely as possible is not stupid but eminently logical and biologically advantageous. If your only investment in any given child is one squirt of goo, you don’t have to care too much about the intelligence of any given female you squirt it into. You want to impregnate as many young women as possible rather than limiting yourself to selected “intelligent” and “high status” women. Women, on the other hand, have to care a great deal who they allow to squirt into them, because their biological investment in the child is much larger than the male’s investment, and thus they have to prefer wealth and status.
If a man could only produce a very small amount of seed in a lifetime, he’d care a lot more about where he put it.
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DT-
I agree with you that a woman does make a choice to stay at home and care for her children – but this choice is not independent. A woman has more pressure to opt out of her career to care for her household. When children come into the picture, it is not the man who will often make the career sacrifice, but the woman.
She will feel this pressure not only from her husband, but from her own work superiors and colleagues, and maybe even certain family members.
It is not an independent choice; it is a societally and biologicaly influenced decision, and almost a necessity, to sacrifice some part (or maybe even all) of her career or even educational aspirations.
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“Think of a case where a woman raises children as a housewife and then the minute they turn 18, he leaves for a younger woman.”
A rarity.
“She would be forced to sell her house and car and return to a low income living without alimony. This is unfair because the couple would have made a joint decision about her forgoing a career in order to stay home and raise the children.”
Things to notice:
Alimony (getting the man’s assets AFTER they are no longer married) is touted as “fair”. But she also wrote that “[m]arriage is an agreement to enter a state of communal ownership with another person”. Yet alimony is a state of communal ownership AFTER the marriage is over.
You will see in her posts that when it comes to getting more than the woman contributed, it is “fair” because it was communal ownership and whether or not she’s a skank whore has nothing to do with it: moral factors do not apply. But when it comes time to keep milking the man for his money, suddenly moral factors start popping up all over the place: it’s not fair that she doesn’t get even more than half (through alimony) because he is a rat bastard. She even rolls with the old and rarely ever true stereotype of leaving her for a younger woman.
“My choice, your responsibility”: “they” decided she would stay at home, so he is responsible for what she decides to do. Typical privilege princess bullshit.
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dreamer
Yes it is.
Maybe marriage in the abstract is not, or an historical memory of marriage might not be, or marriage in some other countries or cultures. Even marriage within our own, if to someone is certain subcultures.
Marriage as feminists have legally wrought it in America today, and as our heavily feminist influenced culture has taught American women to act within marriage, and in leaving marriage, yes, that marriage,
the marriage we actually have today in America,
is the enemy.
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“If you turn the facts around on that slightly and imagine that the woman leaves for another man as soon as the kids turn 18, why on earth should she get the windfall of alimony? That makes no sense.”
It’s a massive waste of legal resources to make new arrangements for each couple. The law is uniform and non sexist. The estate gets divided by two- doesn’t matter who earned it or how big or small it is.
As for alimony, I wouldn’t really care if it disappeared though I do know some women who deserved it because their husbands left after the children were 18.
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I feel sad for men, actually. Their biology makes them have such stupid sexual desires.
You could with as much justice say that women are “stupid” for desiring the very small number of high-status, high-wealth, and high-intelligence men that only very few women can actually obtain unless some form of polygamy prevails.
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“The fundamental error here is the view that men and women are biologically the same and thus should want the same things. The male produces a lot of seed, and his desire to spread his seed as widely as possible is not stupid but eminently logical and biologically advantageous. If your only investment in any given child is one squirt of goo, you don’t have to care too much about the intelligence of any given female you squirt it into. You want to impregnate as many young women as possible rather than limiting yourself to selected “intelligent” and “high status” women. Women, on the other hand, have to care a great deal who they allow to squirt into them, because their biological investment in the child is much larger than the male’s investment, and thus they have to prefer wealth and status.”
This is all out the window now because of 99% effective birth control. Men in modern society have a real opportunity to father only a few children. Thus, their biological preferences are working against them in the present day context.
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“You could with as much justice say that women are “stupid” for desiring the very small number of high-status, high-wealth, and high-intelligence men that only very few women can actually obtain unless some form of polygamy prevails.”
Women are not stupid for wanting to marry up. Women are stupid for wanting alphas and not betas.
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“built from the ground up”? Really? That’s your female view of what a woman does in a marriage – *she* is the source of any of her husband’s wealth, success, happiness? Not any virue, talent, or hard work of his own? Gaze at that for a while, folks.
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Think of a case where a woman raises children as a housewife and then the minute they turn 18, he leaves for a younger woman..
Nova is right. This is only a problem with no fault divorce.
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Men:
You can protect yourself from almony by getting a prenup.
Contra to what feminstx says, there is a large tendency on the part of many states to award alimony if a man isn’t already paying his ex wife child support=alimony, and sometimes even if he is — when there’s a big differential in their incomes, or she isn’t working at all (even though she could be).
So protect yourself.
But really, don’t marry unless you want kids. Then insist on a prenup that rules out alimony and DOES NOT divide assets equally. Don’t make divorcing you easy or inexpensive for her. When families with young children get divorced, it’s nearly always at the instigation of the wife.
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Divorce often affects women more so financially than it does men, hence the need for alimony.
If a woman has an equal career then it will not affect her more. If she chose to sit and watch Opera, then the impact on her is nobody’s fault but her own. She was supported for how long? Where can I find a sugar momma to pay for me to sit and watch TV all day, then later claim she owes me more money after supporting my fattening ass for years?
What will the woman do, who is most likely left with the children and the house to pay / care for, when her husband is gone?
I love this…”left with the house”. The poor baby, left with a home that she did not earn. The horrors!
The children are simple. Split custody 50/50. No child support goes either way since they each have equal time/costs.
The solution is to have more stable marriages, a society that values marriage as a structured part of a well-functioning society. Marriage is not the enemy.
You will never, ever have more stable marriages when the law gives the woman incentives to divorce on a whim, when divorce is a “no fault” deal that rapes the man financially. And our society will not honor marriage so long as men know it’s a raw deal and women feel entitled to do whatever they please in the world, consequences be damned.
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Our divorce laws are wrecking our birthrate, by making marriage such a risky proposition for men. Men are now delaying marriage and fatherhood, leading to blue state birthrates of 1.5 children per female or thereabouts.
We are going to have too many old people in 30 years, and not enough young workers entering the work force. So we have a choice, either reform these insane divorce laws, or to basically ‘replace’ ourselves as humanity with massive immigration. I think reforming the divorce laws would be a much more prudent choice. Men are not going to be willing to father children in enough numbers (and young enough) in the present arrangement.
What women dont realize is that men these days GREW UP under the current system. They seen their dads struggle while paying mom. They dont want to see themselves beholden to the same system, so they pump and dump for sexual pleasure and delay marriage to their late thirties and forties, when they only have time to have one kid. This will have massive economic consequences someday, as the truly productive and innovative aren’t having enough children. The people who advocated for these laws knew exactly where they would lead us……..
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Dreamer says:
“Many people commenting here see marriage as the problem. Marriage is not the problem – divorce is the problem. Divorce often affects women more so financially than it does men, hence the need for alimony.”
Wrong. That claim women’s standard of living drops after a divorce while men’s go up was based on lies by a woman named Lenore Weitzman. She made up some bogus data, knowing it is not permitted in our society for men to call women liars, so she happily lied. It is not that there were errors in her study. There was no study at all.
After her study was accepted by virtually every attorney and judge in the US, someone attempted to duplicate it and it simply was not true. When they asked for her data she whined the grad student who processed her numbers lost them. Yes Lenore, the dog DID eat your homework. Har har.
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“What women dont realize is that men these days GREW UP under the current system. They seen their dads struggle while paying mom. ”
Where do you think us women grew up? Jupiter?
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This is all out the window now because of 99% effective birth control. Men in modern society have a real opportunity to father only a few children. Thus, their biological preferences are working against them in the present day context.
Um, men’s desires were formed before such birth control existed. It is thus wrong to term those desires “stupid” when you actually mean “inappropriate to modern conditions”.
In any event, modern conditions are now, ironically, sending us back towards the primitive condition of primate tribes, in which a small number of males (the alphas) monopolize the females and the rest of the males (betas) get shut out. If a large number of women are chasing a small number of high-status males, then the alpha’s preference for youth and beauty does not “work against him” at all.
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“”””””””””””””””Thursday
Think of a case where a woman raises children as a housewife and then the minute they turn 18, he leaves for a younger woman..
Nova is right. This is only a problem with no fault divorce.”””””””””””””””””””
If she didn’t in 18 years create anything with her man in the marriage then she deserves nothing of his future money. She is worthless.
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“Divorce often affects women more so financially than it does men, hence the need for alimony.
If a woman has an equal career then it will not affect her more. If she chose to sit and watch Opera, then the impact on her is nobody’s fault but her own. She was supported for how long? Where can I find a sugar momma to pay for me to sit and watch TV all day, then later claim she owes me more money after supporting my fattening ass for years?
What will the woman do, who is most likely left with the children and the house to pay / care for, when her husband is gone?
I love this…”left with the house”. The poor baby, left with a home that she did not earn. The horrors!
The children are simple. Split custody 50/50. No child support goes either way since they each have equal time/costs.
The solution is to have more stable marriages, a society that values marriage as a structured part of a well-functioning society. Marriage is not the enemy.
You will never, ever have more stable marriages when the law gives the woman incentives to divorce on a whim, when divorce is a “no fault” deal that rapes the man financially. And our society will not honor marriage so long as men know it’s a raw deal and women feel entitled to do whatever they please in the world, consequences be damned.”
Technically, your proposal is feminist. Though I personally believe in no fault divorce- court can’t sift through each person’s life and make up new rules for each couple. We’re already wasting enough tax money on other crap.
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dreamer–
Once the youngest of generally two children is in school or pre school, if the woman doesn’t return to work she’s really leading a pretty lazy and cushy life. So much so that many women who don’t need to work because their husband is so successful, go into volunteer work that becomes pretty much full time and high powered. Like my mother did. Or get an advanced degree. Well, she did that too.
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Women are not stupid for wanting to marry up. Women are stupid for wanting alphas and not betas.
You don’t even notice the contradiction here? “Marrying up” means she wants an alpha (or as much of an alpha as she can possibly get).
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Just like me when I finish 5 years of straight 12 hour days almost 7 days a week and I don’t save any money. I walk away with nothing. Same with a marriage.
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Pupu *feels* there is something terribly wrong about calling this guy a “hero,” and about the argument that men should be freed from the obligation to pay child support if their wives initiate a no-fault divorce.
Perhaps, this terrible feeling comes from a sting by her inner leech. Pupu does not know whether she should feel bad about herself or about the situations presented in this post.
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Youth only indicates fertility. Prettiness (facial symmetry; healthy hair) indicates health, and good genes–excellent and logical criteria for mate selection.
Merely being youthful doesnt cut it. I wouldnt want to reproduce with an 18 year old, fertile hunchback with a skin condition, family history of heart disease, and pre-disposition to diabetes.
The reality of genetic determinism (to which it appears you are in denial) is applicable for men as well. I dont know why you make it a feminist issue. Men who arent smart or physically gifted are in the same boat as ugly fat chicks.
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dreamer–
Your assumption here, drawn from feminism, is revolting.
Why on earth do you assume that a woman who is no longer acting as a wife to a highly successful man, deserves to ever more, or for a hell of a long time afterwards, live equally as plushly as when she did?
Especially since in 70% of cases it’s women who initiate divorce, often for reasons of general dissatisfaction, or her no longer feeling it, etc. It’s overwhelmingly women who now initiate divorce when there are young children in the home.
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During the Marriage: “Honey dearest, I hate my job, and I don’t earn much anyway. Can I quit, and be a stay at home mom? Oh please, oh please.”
During the Divorce: “Your Honor, my client gave up her career, gave up her unstoppable climb up the corporate ladder, so that this man would have a family. We demand lifetime alimony!”
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If she didn’t in 18 years create anything with her man in the marriage then she deserves nothing of his future money. She is worthless.
She raised his kids. It’s called the division of labour and it is the reason for marriage.
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Though I personally believe in no fault divorce- court can’t sift through each person’s life and make up new rules for each couple. We’re already wasting enough tax money on other crap.
Why would there be new rules? The rules are very basic. Four reasons to end marriage: adultery, addiction, abandonment, abuse. Every other court case the court sifts through the facts and renders a judgment. It is insane that we are not willing to do this in cases impacting the most critical element of someone’s life. Sifting through facts and rendering judgments are what courts are meant to do, after all.
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puma80
So true.
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@pupu – it was alimony, not child support. No kids involved, so your inner leech should be ashamed.
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She needs to get off her ass thursday and learn how to divide labor. Maybe Maybe when they are infants. Wait fuck no. She needs to be running some shit.
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doug1 – I am not saying whether or not a woman deserves to live one way or another following a divorce. I am saying that in most cases, she will have care of the children, and she will need the support of the husband to do so. It has nothing to do with maintaining a particular lifestyle, rather than being able to support her own children. I am not speaking of gold-digging women or even the upper classes. I am speaking of middle, working, and lower class women who need the support of the ex-husband, who most likely, will have less and less to do with the children after the divorce (the lower in station the family, the more likely the father is to be present afterward).
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Feministx,
What is YOUR solution to our low-birthrate dilemma amongst the freethinking?
Have any ideas?
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“Merely being youthful doesnt cut it. I wouldnt want to reproduce with an 18 year old, fertile hunchback with a skin condition, family history of heart disease, and pre-disposition to diabetes.”
You’re completely wrong. Men want to believe that their obsession with female attractiveness has some reproductive value. Not anymore.
A woman can be gorgeous and have a genetic heart condition (my cholesterol is 248- no man cares or asks). A bad skin condition would make a girl very ugly but would not affect her overall health and reproductive capacity.
What one needs in order to get ahead in our society is a good IQ and a good work ethic. Looks do not produce children with those attributes.
What one needs in order to proliferate your genes in our society is a partner with no ability to plan ahead and a need to depend on welfare.
Female prettiness really has no value outside itself. It does not denote any real sort of health advantage in the woman or in her offspring.
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I am saying that in most cases, she will have care of the children, and she will need the support of the husband to do so. It has nothing to do with maintaining a particular lifestyle, rather than being able to support her own children.
This should apply only if the divorce is the fault of the man. In the no-fault context, a woman can just up and leave and collect a check — which is patently unfair.
Also please remember that the getting of a check doesn’t really relate to her need for support. If a woman moves in with someone else, and he is de facto supporting the kids, too, there is no reduction in child support. Even if she re-marries, there is no reduction in child support based on whether she “needs” it unless her new husband adopts the kids.
So no, child support is really about a wealth transfer mostly from ex-husbands to ex-wives, regardless of actual need.
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Maurice:
“If a woman initiates divorce from a man and children are involved, unless she can prove fault by her husband she should not even get child support. I can already hear the disingenuous whining. “But the children will suffer! Think of the children!” If the children are suffering she can always stay with her husband, give them to the husband if she decides to ditch him, or put the kids up for adoption. If she wishes to give the kids to the ex-husband, but he’d rather not have his freedom and funtime curtailed by babysitting duties (and I wouldn’t blame him), *and* the divorce was his fault, he can have the option of paying child support in lieu of physically raising them.”
How about this paragraph?
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@puma80 – right on.
@FemX – really? groan. it’s not my style to flame or post ad hominem (or ad feminem) attacks, so I’ll leave your pointless insult alone.
@nova – courts do get into the details of each individual case, but then apply fairly inflexuble standards mandated by law. It’s the legislatures that need to change things, not the courts.
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Men
stop leaning over backs to be fair, oh so fair, to women in all circumstances no matter what, you take the fall and the burden if things don’t work out as expected.
End that noise.
Seize the advantage. Keep the power.
THEN be kind and generous, at your discretion.
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“court can’t sift through each person’s life and make up new rules for each couple. We’re already wasting enough tax money on other crap.”
So, eliminate government marriage, child support payments, etc.
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@pupu – right, but I was referring about the actual guy in jail, not the subsequent info in the post.
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courts do get into the details of each individual case, but then apply fairly inflexuble standards mandated by law. It’s the legislatures that need to change things, not the courts.
Maurice — Dunno. Most statutes give the courts the leeway to render decisions in the best interests of the children. That throws it squarely back in the courts’ lap, and that standard is so wide you could drive an entire armored division through it.
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Maurice:
As far as alimony goes, Pupu has little to say. The feeling of objection was about calling the guy a “hero.”
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Maurice, what insult? I thought you were a woman. That’s what someone said- that Maurice is a British female name.
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A woman can be gorgeous and have a genetic heart condition (my cholesterol is 248- no man cares or asks).
Meh, there are exceptions, but that’s not the way to bet. Beauty remains a fairly good proxy for health. (Ugliness is not necessarily linked to poor health unless it results from obesity.)
Since a beautiful mate will tend to result in more attractive offspring, who will in turn be more likely to succeed in life, the “obsession with attractiveness” has other advantages beyond being a mere surface indicator of good health.
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dreamer–
Then let her stay married to him, and make him want to stay married to her. In the great majority of cases with children, women can do that if they want to and are sufficiently motivated.
Our “post feminist” culture encourages the opposite.
End that noise.
Make divorce thin economic gruel for women that can’t handsomely earn their own way.
That would make it a whole lot rarer in the middle income groups you speak of.
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Female prettiness really has no value outside itself. It does not denote any real sort of health advantage in the woman or in her offspring.
Prettiness is mostly a function of a woman’s youth, so to that extent, it has an objective reproductive value.
Its subjective value lies in its power to arouse a man for sex, similar to teh effect a man’s alpha behavior has on arousing a woman.
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“What is YOUR solution to our low-birthrate dilemma amongst the freethinking?
Have any ideas?”
not really though I know it’s a problem. We need some kind of cultural shift that stigmatizes childlessness among the more intelligent classes.
I mean, I live in the US but I have enough Old World in me to feel disgusted by the idea of leaving this earth without reproducing. The laws matter, but the attitude matters even more.
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Also please remember that the getting of a check doesn’t really relate to her need for support. If a woman moves in with someone else, and he is de facto supporting the kids, too, there is no reduction in child support. Even if she re-marries, there is no reduction in child support based on whether she “needs” it unless her new husband adopts the kids.
Because new guy has no obligation to the kids in question. You, the co-creator of those kids, is the one with the obligation. Keep in mind, for the vast majority of men paying child support, it doesn’t even cover ‘half’ the cost of raising the kids. By getting divorced, the woman is actually giving you a discount on the amount of money that you would otherwise be paying for those kids. I think it is the psychic pain of actually knowing *exactly* how much they are costing you altogether by writing a check each month seems to be the real problem.
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I agree with you that a woman does make a choice to stay at home and care for her children – but this choice is not independent. A woman has more pressure to opt out of her career to care for her household.
Pressure? What pressure? Who in 2009 America would dare pressure a woman to give up her career for children? Who? For years it has been drilled into our heads that a woman can choose to be a mother or choose to have it all with children and a career, and that this is HER CHOICE. We’ve made countless laws which force employers to recognize, honor, and support HER CHOICE. Any husband daring to go against HER CHOICE will be shamed socially if not raped in divorce court.
Now you claim that poor, helpless women are being forced to stay home by big bad men? Who are you kidding? It’s 2009, not 1949.
This is so typical of female psychology. When a woman wants something, she is woman hear her roar and don’t you dare try to stop her! When she doesn’t like the consequences, poor her, she was under pressure, and men with the coercive power of government need to come in and rescue her. This is basic female nature. You see it in everything they do, from the little things to the big things.
The more I understand women, the more I respect societies that give women no say or power in the political sphere. How can such weak, flimsy, irresponsible little creatures ever be depended upon when it comes to matters of the state, or of the military?
When children come into the picture, it is not the man who will often make the career sacrifice, but the woman.
THIS IS WHAT WOMEN WANT! This is THEIR CHOICE! Women fight for laws and government assistance to insure that they can choose to stay home, or choose to go to work, or stay home and then go back to work, and be supported (by men) in THEIR CHOICE no matter what.
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This guy is a hero of our time.
Ever notice how so many of heroes, mythical and real, are lawbreakers?
We need some kind of cultural shift that stigmatizes childlessness among the more intelligent classes.
More religion or less education, or both.
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you are liar. or, you have ovarian morality blindness.
You state the exception as The Rule, as if the majority of alimony cases are men feeding off women. You spout pure bullshit of the most dangerous kind – that of a brainwashed beneficiary living off a man’s money. go fuck yourself.
now, here, you blame the victim for ‘making more money.’ pure socialist dogma, punishing creators.
And then, rewarding the false victim for not pursuing a career because she’s busy renting out her vagina to her husband.
feminisitxcaca – you are as full of shit as a female whale. you are a delusional liar.
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We need some kind of cultural shift that stigmatizes childlessness among the more intelligent classes.
Or alternately, re-orienting our education-media complex toward promoting in-marriage fertility as something cool and smart young women do.
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If a woman initiates divorce from a man and children are involved, unless she can prove fault by her husband she should not even get child support.
For somebody who believes that current family courts are jury-rigged against men, I’m amazed that you think that bringing back at-fault divorce would magically solve the problem. One could easily suspect that at fault divorce will just ensure a system where wives can say “he was mean to me and didn’t respect my boundaries and freedom”, and judges with broad interpretation will agree and grant divorces at fault to the men with no real change from the current regime.
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Female prettiness really has no value outside itself. It does not denote any real sort of health advantage in the woman or in her offspring.
Bullshit. A physically attractive person (male or female) may have health problems. But odds are a physically attractive person is less likely to suffer from poor health than a physically unattractive one. Physical beauty is an imperfect but still generally effective proxy for genetic health, which is why men and women are attracted to physical beauty. For men it’s the primary criteria.
Since it’s physically impossible for a man’s eyes to sample a woman’s DNA for genetic errors, sampling her beauty was the next best thing.
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Calling all alpha males in the house,
who are alpha not only in the dominant studliness feminist theorizes will sweep her past her hypergamous lesbian to date ultra barriers into the joys of heterosexual surrender to a sadistic ubermench, AND also offer her loyal life commitment and an alpha income and mainstream social status to boot, all secured by an unmodified and no prenup feminist American marriage for her.
How can any of you resist? (After all she did post a semi nude pic of a pretty good bod on her blog.)
Line forms here.
Who’s first?
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“You know, the law is actually gender neutral. A wealthy woman will have to give up half her estate and pay alimony just the same”
The law is written gender-neutral, but not implemented or enforced neutrally. Don’t recall the cite, but I believe women earn more than men in 30% of marriages. You could also say that 70% of the time women marry up economically.
However, when you look at the stats as to who actually pays alimony, you see where the discrimination occurs. Per the IRS and Census numbers, women pay 3% of the alimony in this country, and men the balance. So even though a woman may earn more than her husband, there is only a 10% chance she’ll have to pay alimony, but it is almost 100% chance the dude will have to pay.
Let that sink in a good, long while.
There is no equity, justice or marginal fairness with the divorce shakedown for men.
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feministx:
Racer X would love to fuck you in the ass. And you will love it. Mmmm…
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National Organization for Women (NOW), group founded (1966) to support “full equality for women in America in a truly equal partnership with men.” Its founder and first president was feminist leader Betty Friedan, author of The Feminine Mystique (1963). Through a program of legislative lobbying, court litigation, and public demonstrations, NOW seeks to end sexual discrimination in employment. The largest women’s rights group in the United States, it also supports the establishment of child-care centers for working mothers, legalized abortion, and paid maternity leave, as well as adoption of the equal rights amendment to the U.S. Constitution. NOW works to elect women to office, and seeks the abolition of alimony laws. It consists of approximately 250,000 members, including men, in 800 local chapters affiliated with the main office, located in Washington, D.C.
Hmmm.
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Pupu
You’re having nothing to say about it disgusts me Pupu.
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Gunslinger:
Ultra individualist arguments like yours are why the feminists win. People act like families, not individuals, which often means the woman gives up or falls behind in a career to take care of the children, because she is better at taking care of the kids than the man. And any man worth his salt would agree with that. The man is thoroughly complicit in her lack of income/falling behind in her career. It is an implicit exchange. Therefore, if the man violates the terms of the marriage.
Your “solution” would only encourage women to only look out for themselves and their careers, and not fully commit to the relationship. Not a desirable outcome.
Again, the problem is no fault.
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dreamer:
There are no divorces without a prior marriage.Think about it.
Women,bless their sweet innocent little hearts,initiate divorce by a factor of 3 to 1 over men.Why would they do so,if,as you say it “affects” them “more”?Nice try bitch.Furthermore “need” is a subjective term which is entirely beside the point.Example;a crack-whore “needs” her cocaine fix.Does it follow that somebody else should be forced to pay for it?
Go suck a black dick,bitch.
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Because new guy has no obligation to the kids in question. You, the co-creator of those kids, is the one with the obligation. Keep in mind, for the vast majority of men paying child support, it doesn’t even cover ‘half’ the cost of raising the kids. By getting divorced, the woman is actually giving you a discount on the amount of money that you would otherwise be paying for those kids. I think it is the psychic pain of actually knowing *exactly* how much they are costing you altogether by writing a check each month seems to be the real problem.
Ah, but the post I was responding to suggested that these payments were based on “need”. They are not. They are a child tax for ex-husbands, regardless of the need of the ex-wife.
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Hmmm.
NOW also is at the forefront of resisting changes to custody law that would create presumptions of joint custody — dead-set against that. Why? Because they know then that support payments would be lessened greatly and eliminated in some cases and ex-spouses would simply divide the rest of the expenses if they shared custody. So of course NOW is against that.
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@anony – well, credit due. i stand corrected on that narrow fact (what’s their stated reason for that position, btw?) but still think there is a larger feminist-agenda-lobby complex that has no equivalent on the male side. that was my larger point. Also, fair point about child support. I pay an enormous amount, and even though it’s a hardship for me, I’d rather bear it than basically abandon my child. that’s a moral choice.
@DT: right on..!
@DA: actually, that had occurred to me – that bringing back at-fault for divorce might work against men much of the time, as “fault” is interpreted in the current environment. I wonder what the data show in certain states (New York is one, maybe?) that are not no-fault.
@vino – agreed, had something similar above.
@FemX – whatever – not credible. you’ve responded to a number of my posts in the past in which it would be impossible to make that mistake.
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doug1
Put up with all of that shit for this? [link]
Feminastixy is delusional.
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Keep in mind, for the vast majority of men paying child support, it doesn’t even cover ‘half’ the cost of raising the kids.
This also is plainly false. The amounts are not based on the cost of raising a child, not even close to it. They were dramatically increased in the 1980s under pressure from the federal government to incorporate the alimony standard of “comparable standard of living”. This means that ex-wives, in effect, get supported to a comparable standard of living per the support payments — which is why some people quite aptly call it child alimony. In none of the cases I am personally familiar with is the amount anything close to the actual cost of child raising and is in far excess of it.
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It’s real simple.
If women want money from men to help them raise children, they should be proving ongoing wifely services to that man. those include sex and deep loving companionship (which should of course flow in both directions).
If she withdraws those things, as she should be free to do, then he should be able to withdraw his support.
If she can’t support the kids without him, and can’t win his voluntary help on some basis, then she should have to leave them with him.
Else she should suck it up and remain in the marriage and make it work for him too, as women can do when they want to.
The current arrangement is that women make no enforced promises whatsoever when they get American married. It’s all optional for her. When men get American married on the other hand, they make huge financial commitments to their wife.
So don’t get married. Certainly don’t under those rules (Require a prenup.)
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What is the percent of jobs that are “carreers” one percent maybe. Can’t we just call it a job. Or is it woman have careers guys have jobs. Did my uncle the engineer have a “carreer when he was laid off at 49? He got 24 weeks severance and that is it. How the fuck can woman demand so much more from a man for some piece of their life than a man can demand from a company that employs him.
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@nova – OK, so it had to be something like that. the agenda is the agenda.
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Speaking of NOW, anyone remember the Promise Keepers’ rally on DC in 1997?
The media gave tons of attention to NOW’s “dissenting position” on the PKs’ message. The news channels gave 24/7 coverage of the PK leader trying to reassure NOW’s head Patricia Ireland that his movement is for responsible husbandhood and other niceguy Christian boyscout things.
At the time, I didn’t know what NOW’s problem was with PK. They semmed like a bunch of nice guys.
Looking back now, especially having read the arguments on this blog, it is so hilariously obvious to me now why the more PKs tried to make nice with NOW, the more of a hissyfit NOW was having with this enterprise.
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Feminists want to eat your testicals, it is true because I read it on a douchebag’s blog. CREDIBLE STUFF
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sure, she’s got a bangin’ bod worthy of a dirty lil grudgefuck
but, like most fuckable girls, she’s lacking in one dept…
i don’t spend time with the fuckables because i wanna hear what ‘trenchant’ opinions Oprah fed them.
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Keep in mind, for the vast majority of men paying child support, it doesn’t even cover ‘half’ the cost of raising the kids. By getting divorced, the woman is actually giving you a discount on the amount of money that you would otherwise be paying for those kids.
I’ve seen friends get divorced, and invariably they pay more for a lower standard of living, for both themselves and their children. There is no discount in divorce, trust me.
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The amounts are not based on the cost of raising a child, not even close to it.
Also keep in mind that nobody is even allowed to scrutinize the administration of so-called child support payments.The receiver can do with it what she pleases.So much for “whats in the best interest of the children.”
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PA
Yeah. And interesting anecdote.
As well though NOW types don’t think they want even alpha males to generally be the lords of their home manors. It’s against their ideology. Of course a lot of NOW leaders esp. below the figurehead are lesbians.
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Doug:
“You’re having nothing to say about it disgusts me Pupu.”
Coming from a stable and loving family, Pupu knows well how money works in a healthy marriage, but little about how it does in a broken one. Until her own wedding bells are ready to sing, Pupu will remain blissfully ignorant about the ugly side of the story.
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Doug:
You’re grasping at straws to blame the woman for male adultery. Men sometimes cheat because the wife has withdrawn her services, but often they just cheat cause they like variety.
The proposals here really would make women into drudges who have to put up with any shit men give them.
Isn’t it funny how, no matter the question, on this blog, it’s always the womans fault. I agree that men are, on average, more interested in justice than women, but they sure aren’t all that interested in justice.
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My mama got five years’ worth of alimony; the kids had all just flown the coop and Dad felt like he deserved a younger, prettier woman– the party girl he’d never had.
He was mad, MAD, MAAAAD to be obliged to pay it; he growled at the judge and howled at the moon. I’m sure he’s ranted and raved all over the Internet to anyone who’ll listen, (since nobody in the family will) but my sibs and I all know the score.
Yeah, go on, quit college so you can put hubby through, spend twenty-five years juggling a brood of kids and a stack of bills and a dozen relocations, and then show me what a badass individualist you are.
My daily prayer is that my husband be a better man than my daddy. Mama seems to opine that he is.
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Also keep in mind that nobody is even allowed to scrutinize the administration of so-called child support payments.The receiver can do with it what she pleases.So much for “whats in the best interest of the children.”
Very true as well. Nor does (typically) she need to account for her portion of the support amount and how it is spent, or if it is spent at all. In the case where she moves in with someone or remarries, this results in a complete windfall, and you can bet that the child support check is just as likely to be spent at Nordstom’s as it is for the kid(s). Hence child alimony.
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Firepower–
As well, if an alpha wants to maximize his chances of divorce theft, I can think of few strategies better than marrying a life long full on lesbian feminist who theorizes that you’ve got the stuff to convert her.
Or partly convert her, sometimes, when the moon and jupiter are in proper alignment, and she hasn’t decided that really you’ve slipped a bit and it’s all your fault.
Oh and there’s the concerted and vehement man hating part.
Such a deal!!! And with a mug like hers too!!!
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omw–
I don’t know whether you’ll believe this, but I would voluntarily make alimony payments for five years in THAT kind of situation. Of course I don’t know their required amount. I wouldn’t be voluntarily munificent but I won’t offer only thin gruel either.
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My ex-husband went into the marriage with zero in savings, did most of the spending, while I spent little to nothing and had always been frugal. My mom gave me 15 grand before I got married to get me started. I went out of the marriage with about the same amount as I went into it, while he came out of it 15 grand richer. So all the money that I made during the marriage, working full time, basically went to him. He didn’t have to pay alimony nor any of the divorce proceeding fees.
He thinks just like you guys do now. Women suck, American women are self-entitled, immoral and horrible bitches, they never care or love their men, they’ll divorce a man and take all his stuff and the children, or cuckold him and make him pay child support to the whore of a wife. Oh, and the reason the west hates Islam is because their women do everything those men tells them to do, and they are totally faithful and obedient and fearful for their life, which is the way it should be bitches! Kick those bitches and beat them if they get out of line.
That’s the way it should be, right guys?
Heh. He really thought I took his “stuff” — because I took the pots and dishes that I used to cook in… because I did all the cooking when we were together, and still continue to cook at home. And when he got arrested for being drunk and yelling at me in public, that was obviously my fault for daring to tell him to stop drinking at his coworker’s wedding and for wanting to go home. Interesting how we used to argue so much that the neighbors called the cops on us several times. But with the guy that I’m with now, we have yet to have one screaming, name-calling session. I wonder who really was the problem.
Thank you very much for being a voice of reason. Sometimes people here forget that there are bad men out there in addition to bad women.
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doug1
i hear ya. i don’t even bother to convert babies for jesus, let alone an Indian dyke.
just saying she’d be good to fuck doggystyle over her ottoman, then wipe my cock off on her sari.
dirty bitch would sext me the next day – guaranteed
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What’s so “yadda yadda” about marrying a Filipina?
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There is one way that women DO get screwed by alimony. It is when they are Second Wives. There are cases of married-women whose incomes are being garnished to pay for the alimony life-sentence of her husband:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/06/13/the_chilling_effect_of_states_divorce_laws/
Very strange, but true.
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I find the trope, here and in other places like in F. Roger Devlin, that men are these pure, noble creatures always being exploited by women to be such nauseating drivel. Not that I think women are any better, nor do I think the current marriage/divorce regime to be just, but the bias here is nuts.
Men have Darwinian incentives to cheat on their wives (i.e. variety, trading up for someone younger). And men have Darwinian incentives to undersupport their children (i.e. they may want the money to get more sex (and perhaps future children) from other women). Because of these incentives, society needs to adjust it’s laws accordingly.
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How about this for a reform: Marriage presumes that both parties wish children. If two independent people have sex, that is their business. If the woman chooses to have a child, then it is entirely her choice. There is no presumption that he consents to having a child and, thus, he is not obligated to that child in any way.
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Pupu
Default User wonders why Pupu always speaks in the third person. Default User thinks it is kind of cute.
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Glenn Sacks is a Jew, too, and he is on the right track if you ask me.
As a gentile, I have seen plenty of my fellow Christians take the exact same paternalistic attitude Auster displays.
Mostly, it is older men (i.e. old fools) who just missed the divorce revolution of the 70s/80s who cling to idiotic notions of women being victimized by errant husbands. Older men also get kind of weak in the mind when they think of young women. I’ve seen it happen many times.
To tell the truth, when I have to go before a judge, I hope it is a younger man (for a judge) or a woman. The old men are the biggest pricks of all.
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Default User should close his tags.
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fillipinas are dirty whores with teeth in their vagina who carry 230 kinds of Syphilis plus the 40UN-er4 strain of gonoherpes.
it’s true – read it in some Japanese sex-tourists blog my priest sent me.
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I feel sad for men, actually. Their biology makes them have such stupid sexual desires
as Steve Sailer would say, we have another female pundit who wants to re-engineer society in order to make her look more attractive to men. Meanwhile, she hates men for thinking differently
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It doesn’t really matter what you, hypothetically, would do, Doug. No offense, of course.
Making men the lord-and-masters of their wives and children simply doesn’t produce universal justice.
My dad should not have been left to his own devices to think about “what’s fair” because to him, whatever benefits him IS fair. Some mens is like that.
And he’s not even an evil dude; you’d like him if you met him at a BBQ. He’d be cocky-funny and pretty smart.
Heh, Hope! I paid my ex about 15K to go away when I was 21. Worth every penny. *blush*
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“Sometimes people here forget that there are bad men out there in addition to bad women.”
How can we forget when it is blasted 24/7 in our faces that men are vile scum?
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Hope:
So wait… your mom gave you money you didn’t earn in the workplace and it ended up going to him? Well, that does suck for you… but you do realize you are complaining about something you didn’t actually earn, right?
And, just a question, but you are an adult, right? And no one held a gun to your head when you decided to marry a drunk, penniless man with no history of being able to provide for himself, right?
In all seriousness, and I’m not trying to pick on you… but does some small part of rational being in you understand why the guys on this board say that women never take responsibility for their own actions? I am curious: do you think that you should at all be held responsible for the consequences of your actions? or is life just something that “happens” to you?
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I would voluntarily make alimony payments for five years in THAT kind of situation.
Isn’t the point though that a lot of men would not make voluntary payments?
Nothing is going to be perfectly fair to all situations though.
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Mmmhmm. My dad is in his 50s, has two daughters with his second wife, who is soon to be his ex-second wife. Both of those daughters are under 3 years old. When I asked him on the phone why he is getting divorced, he said, “Boredom. Sometimes you just get bored.”
According to my mom, he cheated on her throughout their marriage, and I knew that he was cheating on his second wife, too. He also beat up my mom and never gave her any alimony, nor did he willingly give me child support. I’ve never even received a single birthday present from him.
Anyway, I’ve forgiven him, but I’m sure as hell not going to invite that kind of misery into my life.
I’d love to talk to you more via e-mail or chat. 🙂 hopewithoutwings@yahoo.com
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You know, the law is actually gender neutral. A wealthy woman will have to give up half her estate and pay alimony just the same.
Which is why a prenup & getting involved only with people who are in the vicinity of your income bracket is a good idea, regardless of gender.
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“My dad should not have been left to his own devices to think about “what’s fair” because to him, whatever benefits him IS fair. Some mens is like that.”
And most women are like this.
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Default User:
It feels easier, freer, and most of all, safer to send a third person out to the wide world.
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Please, forget about changing laws, reforming marriage, or pushing for a return to the ‘good old pre-feminism days’.
Marriage is rotten and harmful to men. The genie is out of the bottle and won’t be going back inside. Forget seeking a foreign bride – it’s a hit and miss thing and I assure you that in this globalized, connected world in the 21st century, feminism has its tentacles firmly gripping most parts of the world outside the Anglo-Western-North American sphere. It’s not worth the effort.
Say no to marriage and all forms of long-term relationships with women. Forget about having your own biological children. Breeding is for the dumb, the poor and the religious. Every teenage boy should have a vasectomy as soon as he reaches the legal adult age.
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“we have another female pundit who wants to re-engineer society in order to make her look more attractive to men. Meanwhile, she hates men for thinking differently
”
Femx is a realist when it comes to personal life decisions.
See, what I want is a man that will demand that I wake him up every morning with a blow job before I cook a nice breakfast. And I want to be required to meet him on my knees wearing only a little lingerie when he comes home from work, waiting to greet him with another blow job.
And really, most men don’t bother with this kind of interest. They are just too indifferent to women. I am the one not asking society to change for me. I don’t want men to change so more of them fit my preferences. I will go ahead and find the ones that fit my preferences naturally. FemX is no “world is so unfair to me” whining beta.
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Pupu
Default User understands. He is glad to meet her.
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As a gentile, I have seen plenty of my fellow Christians take the exact same paternalistic attitude Auster displays
Case in point:
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/index.php/2008/09/16/uncle-sams-harem-ii/#comments
Start with comment #6.
Has Glenn Sacks ever mentioned the heavy Jewish involvement with feminism?
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—show me a woman who is wealthy and I’ll show you a cunt who stole it from a man in divorce proceedings.
Not all of us, lurker. Some of us make our own wealth through our own hard work, and surprise! We’re not all that hot on the idea of marriage, either.
I don’t blame guys for not wanting to get married, or if they decide to, for doing whatever they have to to avoid being taken to the cleaners.
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“most women.”
Well, that settles it, then! Cpt Napalm’s scathingly intelligent rebuttal convinces me that all women everywhere shall henceforth become the chattel property of their male next-of-kin. 😉
Lacking any male relatives, they shall become the property of David Alexander.
Let me just call NOW and let them know.
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Feministix- There is a correlations between physical attractiveness and intelligence/health. It’s an imperfect outward manifestitation of genetic goods. Are looks effected by external factors? of course. Can look of physical attractiveness be overcome of course. But its still a good proxy.
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@Master Dogen
Generally, nothing is wrong with Filipinas. I am illustrating the ‘marry a foreign woman from country XYZ because the women there know how to be women.’ (Or treat a man. Or are traditional… etc.)
As a practical matter, this advice is not very actionable.
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Correction: Can lack of physical attractiveness be overcome? of course. ..
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Hope to Thursday:
Hey Thursday, maybe you can marry Hope. She and the other girls all seem to like you.
Oh, wait… None of them are virgins, and many are divorcees.
Ooops!
BTW, Thursday, I had a nun suggest to me that it was my fault my wife cheated because I’d taken a part-time job to help raise the kids (at my ex-wife’s insistence), and therefore wasn’t being a good enough provider. She also suggested I bear the adultery patiently and let her do as she pleased while still living a chaste life and raising my kids.
So much for Catholic morality. I haven’t gone to church since.
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kamal:
The rest is morals. If one partner sacrificed for you such that that partner couldn’t make a living of their own, and was dependent upon you, while you were the bread winner, than if neither partner was a party in adultery, it is fair and just and beautiful and a mark of a man’s benevolence generosity and virtue to leave his wife with some mutually agreed upon financial support for some time until she gets to her feet, or in the case of a stay at home dad, the wife should leave the husband something.
I limited the quote for the sake of space, but this entire post was awesome. Couldn’t agree more.
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omw, Hope
Uh Oh! Women plotting together. This cannot end well.
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I’m not complaining about it on my own behalf. That initial 15 grand to be honest should have gone back to my mom. Mostly she’s more pissed off at the situation than I am. Money is not a big deal to me. As I said, I live frugally, and I still save up a ton of money. It’s been a lot easier to save up since I’ve left him.
Actually, I wasn’t an adult when he met me. I was 15 years old, and he was 21. I was just a little kid. How easy do you think it would be for a girl that age to fall in love with an older, more experienced man who is intent on showing himself in the best possible light online? He lied with every sentence he wrote, and was extremely adroit at getting a high school girl’s sympathy.
When I started “supporting” him, I was 17, and still not an adult. He was jobless for a while before I got him a temporary job at the university I was attending. I had helped this “drunk, penniless man” make something of his life, got him to quit smoking and eating more healthily, and I helped him grow as a person.
He asked me to marry him, but after the marriage, I find out that just about everything he told me about his past were lies and fabrications. He thought that he “had” me, and so he came clean about those lies he held back for all those years. I remained with him for a while longer, but more and more problems surfaced.
Personally, I see it as a good, hard and long lesson. It is what it is. Even before my divorce I started seeing that I was responsible for my own actions and my own happiness. It was ultimately what led to my decision to move out and get away from him. I realized what I really wanted was not to be tied down to this man.
In the past I had tried to leave him multiple times, but he had threatened to kill himself and guilt tripped me. I stayed out of pity, guilt and compassion, but I never truly admired him. He was an extremely angry person, and he still is. There were many times when he provoked people and tried to act in a macho way, and he’s alienated many friends and coworkers because of it.
I did my own share of bad things through the years, and I admit this freely. I was insecure and cowardly, naive and foolish. I had been in a few high school relationships while this guy had slept around with a bunch of women in bars and had already lived with someone else. He was my first relationship, and one that I could not let go because I was just as needy.
It wasn’t until I had resolved that I would be able to remain alone for the rest of my life, and that I am my own complete person, that I met someone who is truly amazing.
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If you sign the marriage contract, you can’t win.
This UG Professor learned about his wife cheating with a dude at her community theater group. Killed both lovebirds, and took his own life. In a previous era, this cuckold may have received some sympathy. Not in present-day USSA. Note the shaming doesn’t stop, even at death.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/15/zinkhan.body/index.html
They are dancing on his grave figuratively and literally.
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Thursday–
Despite all the noise from some women to the contrary, raising a couple of kids with modern American appliances and other conveniences is not a full time job. Not even close.
Raising infants is. More or less. That allows lots of free time in short segments for reading, web, tv or whatever, but creates lots of loss of sleep and few large blocks of free time as well.
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I had a nun suggest to me that it was my fault my wife cheated because I’d taken a part-time job to help raise the kids (at my ex-wife’s insistence), and therefore wasn’t being a good enough provider. She also suggested I bear the adultery patiently and let her do as she pleased while still living a chaste life and raising my kids.
Lots of social conservatives think that women are pure, noble creatures always being exploited and mistreated by men. They’re wrong too.
BTW I would be happy to return to a more explicitly patriarchal society.
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omw: In your semi-functional mind, not getting cash from men is the equivalent of being chattel property. Who is this idiot that married you?
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@FemX – maybe I’m the island of Mauritius! I would be in France. moving on …
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Despite all the noise from some women to the contrary, raising a couple of kids with modern American appliances and other conveniences is not a full time job. Not even close.
The point is that, while a wife may be able to take a part time job after the kids are a bit older, she stiill won’t be able to take on a full career.
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@maurice
Thanks for the welcome.
I’m male.
BG
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You’re grasping at straws to blame the woman for male adultery. Men sometimes cheat because the wife has withdrawn her services, but often they just cheat cause they like variety.
The proposals here really would make women into drudges who have to put up with any shit men give them.
Isn’t it funny how, no matter the question, on this blog, it’s always the womans fault. I agree that men are, on average, more interested in justice than women, but they sure aren’t all that interested in justice.
Thursday is now my favorite day of the week. 🙂
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I think so. He once wrote that he wouldn’t marry a Jewish woman because they were too brutal toward men.
He’s taken the article offline (probably following some pressure from an embarrassed Jewish community), but here’s an excerpt I found:
But honestly, I think Glenn’s pretty much secular. He doesn’t dwell too much on the religious aspects of the issue of men’s rights, for obvious reasons.
A wise course, IMO. I truly admire the guy, Jewish or not.
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@BinNYC – sorry, I just made the same mistake as FemX has made about me. I guess it was because the male voices here all tend to be variations on the same style…
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All of that is fine if divorce were based on fault. Wife sacrifices her career opportunities for kids. Husband cheats on her. He gets taken to cleaners. Makes sense.
What makes no sense is the following: wife sacrifices her career opportunities for kids. Ends up sleeping with her fitness instructor. Divorces husband and takes him to the cleaners, getting alimony + child support. This makes no sense. Fault should matter in these situations, and it does not. So while everyone talks about how the woman is getting back on her feet and so on, it should matter whether she was at fault or not.
As long as we have no fault we will have a lot of unjust situations on both sides — bad behavior by men and women being endorsed by the courts instead of being punished, as they should be.
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and if the couple jointly made the decision for her to sacrifice her career for the benefit the children, how would you counsel her regarding
jointly decision?
so if separation was consensual, without any breaking of trust, it is more than reasonable that she gets part of the estate plus alimony for a limited number of years.
she cheated? she used the fact that she was free at home while hubbie slaved in the galleys? she gets nothing. Husband may feel the need to pay something since she is still mother of his children (if DNA says so), but a cheated husband must have the right to reduce is wife to begging
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Good luck getting women to vote with you on that one!
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He’s a pretty funny idiot. We’re really just a pair of mentally semi-functional, barely literate American peasants, picking ticks off each other’s backs and making babies at a rate that ought to alarm sensible people.
😀
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“being in a disadvantaged financial position in case of divorce because they chose to marry for looks more than career success”
http://www.forbes.com/2006/08/23/Marriage-Careers-Divorce_cx_mn_land.html
Notice that the “rebuttal” is all anecdote.
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novaseeker
exactly
fault matters. the party at fault deserves to be fucked.
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“”””””””””Hope
He asked me to marry him, but after the marriage, I find out that just about everything he told me about his past were lies and fabrications. He thought that he “had” me, and so he came clean about those lies he held back for all those years. I remained with him for a while longer, but more and more problems surfaced.”””””””””””’
The lie was that he killed people in self defense. Even hope demands a killer 🙂
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Thursday–
I reality though I’d have strongly urged her to return to at least part time work, or lighter hours full time work, long ago. Then if she hadn’t, it would be different.
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“The point is that, while a wife may be able to take a part time job after the kids are a bit older, she still won’t be able to take on a full career.”
So what? She chose to have the kids. It isn’t like the guy could do anything if she chose not to. Her choice, her responsibility.
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BTW, Thursday, I had a nun suggest to me that it was my fault my wife cheated because I’d taken a part-time job to help raise the kids (at my ex-wife’s insistence), and therefore wasn’t being a good enough provider. She also suggested I bear the adultery patiently and let her do as she pleased while still living a chaste life and raising my kids.
So much for Catholic morality. I haven’t gone to church since.
Welmer —
Yeah I got the same spiel from a priest at the time. Haven;t darkened the door of a church since then, either.
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Ay, no-fault divorce is pretty much a disaster.
I can see some cases where assigning fault would be an exercise in stupidity– the 19-year-old kids who get married and realize three months later that they loathe each other, for instance. You see a lot of that around military installations.
But maybe if divorce were known to be hard to come by, the kids would be less likely to marry some person they met two weeks ago, just to get out of the barracks.
Maybe not, though.
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omw —
Maybe there could be an exception for marriages of less than one year in age.
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“”””””””cptnapalm
omw: In your semi-functional mind, not getting cash from men is the equivalent of being chattel property. Who is this idiot that married you?””””””””””””””
That was well put. Why do woman think they deserve some shit from a man when they split? If you divide their assets in half and they can’t live off of it that is their problem just like it is the guys problem. They should both be able to go on welfare if they need to I suppose.
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Eh, Doug, Mom and Dad moved way too often for her to hold down anything resembling a steady job. This was probably part of the impetus for her to take her “job” as a stay-at-home mom so seriously.
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Chris Rock said it best:
When it’s time to get a divorce, women got it made. You go to court, start talkin’ that sh?t. “I’m used to this, I’m used to that. I’m accustomed to this.” What the fuck is accustomed? Whats that got to do with shit? You go to a restaurant, you accustomed to eatin’. You leave, you ain’t eatin’ no more. They don’t owe you a steak. What about what the man’s used to? It might not be money, but during the course of a relationship, a man grows accustomed to a few things. I would love to see a man go to court and say, “Your honor, check this out. I’m accustomed to fuckin’ her four times a week. Now I feel I should be able to fuck her at least twice a week. I mean she can have the alimony, but I want some pussy payments.”
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“”””””””””””””””novaseeker
All of that is fine if divorce were based on fault. Wife sacrifices her career opportunities for kids. Husband cheats on her. He gets taken to cleaners. Makes sense.”””””””””””””””””
No it doesn’t she could have got online and learned how to do something useful instead of whatever else she did all day. From 3rd grade on I didn’t stay in the house. I was outside roaming the planet. How much time did it take to raise me again.
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Hope–
Short marriages without kids where both partners earn comparably do not generally screw men over.
In fact there tends to be little property transfer in either direction in those situations. Often the partner wanting out will end up with less than a fully fair result, just to be done with it.
In such cases it’s usually the sense of disillusion and heart ache that’s the worst thing about it. Those things are usually there on at least one side and often both whenever a marriage of any length at all dissolves.
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I like it, NS. Or call it an annulment.
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Good luck getting women to vote with you on that one
Are any of the legislative proposals on this blog likely to be put through?
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(I was referring to this: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/15/zinkhan.body/index.html)
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Good luck getting women to vote with you on that one!
Words to ponder:
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Gunslinger is exemplifying the statement that libertarianism is applied autism.
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This must be why churches are now 60% plus female. Yet one still hears priests and preachers rail against men for turning their backs on religion.
In fact, the churches turned their backs on us long ago. Raping boys wasn’t even seen as a criminal issue by Raymond Hunthausen, the former archbishop of my parish. Strangely, during the same time rape of boys was flourishing, there was nationwide hysteria about rape of women.
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maurice:
I studied the injustice of laws and courts for a brief time, not on the issue of gender but on race and class. Essentially, the laws and courts are human creations. Most humans are unable to act justly when certain selfish desires come into play.
Gunslingergregi:
There were tons of other lies. That was just the one fit for print. Frankly, I don’t like killers. But I could forgive that if he had just told the truth. What kind of man lies about having done things he’s never done? The kind of man who is deeply afraid of who he really is.
Welmer:
Indeed. Not a virgin, and my goodness, a divorcee! How awful!
Because of this blog, I had tried to avoid divorce for a while. I consciously chose to try to work out the problems in my marriage, because I didn’t want it to end up as a failure. I didn’t want to be seen as a “divorcee,” a woman of lower “value.”
But then, I broke free of my mind’s own shackles. And by some twist of fate, soon after moving on from the cesspool of negativity and darkness that was my former life, I’ve met the most incredible man.
And he doesn’t want to kill anyone. 😛
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@hope – what a story. people make stuff up here sometimes, but assuming it’s true, good for you that you didn’t sour on the male species after an experience with one bad specimen.
how many of us here would say that dude was just plying “game” – picking up a teenage girl based on lies, being supported by her, abuse, anger, etc. – and how many of us would say he’s a piece of shit? We have to know the difference.
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I like it, NS. Or call it an annulment.
Yes, exactly. Like a “right or rescission, exercisable by either spouse, within the first 12 months. No fault needed in that situation — that would be reasonable to me.
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I like it, NS. Or call it an annulment.
omw —
Yes, exactly. Like a “right of rescission, exercisable by either spouse, within the first 12 months. No fault needed in that situation — that would be reasonable to me.
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Hope
How beta. I give it six months.
🙂
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This must be why churches are now 60% plus female. Yet one still hears priests and preachers rail against men for turning their backs on religion.
In fact, the churches turned their backs on us long ago. Raping boys wasn’t even seen as a criminal issue by Raymond Hunthausen, the former archbishop of my parish. Strangely, during the same time rape of boys was flourishing, there was nationwide hysteria about rape of women.
Welmer —
Indeed. In many places it is now 70%+ female, and if you take away the married men, there’s generally only a trace amount of single men there. It doesn’t speak to men any longer. Ironic, given that the RCC is seen as a boys’ club due to the all-male priesthood. The priesthood may be all male, but it certainly has it in for men.
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“”””””””””””Thursday
Gunslinger is exemplifying the statement that libertarianism is applied autism.””””””””””””””””””””
Well when you see your dad divorced you come up with some solutions to it. I am the only one I see here living the solution every day.
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On divorce it should be assumed in a prenup (if you aren’t really well off) that the house will have to be sold.
That’s right, she’s going to have to live poorer post divorce, and so will the kids.
A smaller house in a cheaper neighborhood should be the expectation.
Or she shouldn’t get divorced while there are kids in the house.
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Mandatory paternity testing has a fighting chance.
From what I’ve discovered, the only successful legislation is legislation that evens the playing field. Without that, there can be no consensus. This is why I support the ratification of the ERA — it would force equal allocation of government funds and services by gender and would trash certain provisions of VAWA, which is one of the biggest nightmare bills ever passed in this country (thanks a lot, OJ).
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maurice:
He was not playing game, nor was he a really bad man by any means. He never abused me physically, and he was loving. He was extremely immature back then, and I thought I was more mature than my age. I was in a hurry to grow up, and I thought that we were in love with each other. In truth, we were both in love with mere illusions.
As much as he yelled at me, I also yelled back and treated him unkindly. It was a downward spiral which neither of us backed away from because we were both deeply terrified individuals — fearful of being alone, of being unloved. It was not love we gave each other, but a prison of our own making.
I forgive him for all that, and likewise I’ve forgiven myself. The thing is, there are more things that he needs to learn, and I cannot teach them to him. If I cannot love him for who he is, then being with him is just keeping him from a women who would. He deserves someone who genuinely loves him rather than staying with him out of empathy.
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Mandatory paternity testing has a fighting chance.
Welmer —
I agree. This is our best shot right now — we have a very good case on this one, especially to men, and men care about this more than they care about other things “that will never happen to them” … until they happen, of course.
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This must be why churches are now 60% plus female.
I notice that a lot of these complaints are against priests. Conservative Protestant churches tend to be much more man friendly, though they tend to overidealize women too.
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Is your ex husband the marine (if I remember correctly) of some time back?
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Hope–
I almost didn’t see that, you slipped it in so quietly.
Good for you!!!
I hope this new guy continues to feel so good to you, down the road. Certainly sounds a promising start.
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The priesthood may be all male, but it certainly has it in for men.
Most priests are gay.
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I notice that a lot of these complaints are against priests. Conservative Protestant churches tend to be much more man friendly, though they tend to overidealize women too.
That’s interesting, because I have met quite a few conservative protestant men who say that they feel just as marginalized in their churches — but they are more likely to attend, even if single, than Catholics/Orthodox are.
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@puma/11min – link doen’t work. but i think i get the gist from your comments.
@nova/anony – second that. no fault after one year is a great idea – but what if there’s a child? shotgun weddings aren’t exactly unknown … i guess in that case you’d have to go through the usual brutal procedures.
@Thursday – of course not. we’re trying to reshape the world, one blog comment at a time. pretty alpha, eh?
@welmer/nova – interesting about the RCC, because you’d think as the world’s oldest patriarchal institution, its ideology would be clearly aligned with traditional values. It has been as subject to political trends as everything else, though (ex: Vatican II, liberation theology). Church attendance is a different question, and more interesting – why is it, do you suppose, that women attend in greater numbers? Is it that they are in greater need of guidance from an authority figure? Is it that the traditional morality preached seems to be aimed more at restraining male impulses? Hadn’t thought abotu it much before, actually, but it’s a good question.
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novaseeker
exactly
fault matters. the party at fault deserves to be fucked.
That is putting it as succinctly as possible. Men lose ugly in divorce now, whether they are at fault of not, hence why they are refusing to marry.
There are going to be a lot of childless women getting up in years in about a decade—-probably going batty over it.
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And Thursday solutions are being asked I have the solutions. Whats the problem.
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“””””””””””on May 15, 2009 at 4:19 pm z
novaseeker
exactly
fault matters. the party at fault deserves to be fucked.”””””””””””””””””””””
Nobody deserves to be fucked over. They need to be free to be human beings. If they don’t create shit together they don’t get shit. Why does the gov need to step in to force either party to become slaves.
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Thursday–
Sure she can and plenty do.
As well women want children far more than men do. Life is full of trade offs.
If she’s going to emphasize her motherhood role, and doesn’t want to work full time as some it’s it’s possible to do so (or earn enough to pay for a nanny) maybe she should make the marriage work.
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David Evans is an Alpha. He calmly ignored his divorce orders. Went away for 5 years and spent every single penny living his dream:
http://photos.igougo.com/pictures-j51675-s2-10_Days_in_a_Tropical_Paradise-photos.html
I am suspecting that after 5 years of fvcking and svcking half the female population of Sumatra, he ran out of money. He came back to this wedding to deliver that one final Fuck You to the system (and his ex-wife). Unlike Chad Beatty they probably won’t be able to keep him in prison for long. If he truly did spend every single cent, the court cannot keep him beyond a limited criminal contempt charge.
Chad Beatty’s problem is the self-inflicted impossibility charge of civil contempt of court, and that he theoretically holds the key to his own release, should he repatriate the funds that he snuck out.
If David Evans proves that he spent every single penny, or repatriates whatver that remains, they can’t keep him in jail for long.
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Maurice —
@nova/anony – second that. no fault after one year is a great idea – but what if there’s a child? shotgun weddings aren’t exactly unknown … i guess in that case you’d have to go through the usual brutal procedures.
Yeah I had the same thought — but if there is a kid, it has to be resolved. I would still argue for a presumption of joint custody, but with 19 year olds who knows — kind of like a Bristol Palin situation, but with marriage thrown in.
Church attendance is a different question, and more interesting – why is it, do you suppose, that women attend in greater numbers? Is it that they are in greater need of guidance from an authority figure? Is it that the traditional morality preached seems to be aimed more at restraining male impulses? Hadn’t thought abotu it much before, actually, but it’s a good question.
Feminism and the broader PC culture have had a huge impact on the RCC in the US. The way that things are taught tends to idolize female behavior and problematize male behavior. This is an adjustment to the prior church regime, which tended to criticize both, but was quite harsh on female behavior, with Mary (virgin) as the “ideal woman”.
That’s all changed. The nuns are totally infected with feminism. My mother had a good friend who left the religious order she was in in the early 80s because it had degenerated into womyn studying feminist studies who lived in a convent and had sex with each other — not kidding. Now it isn’t so much like that now, because very few people are becoming nuns and priests any longer, but the atmosphere in the church is very PC.
I think women are more attracted to it because in its current iteration it is very emotional and appeals to the emotions. The older Catholic tradition is very cerebral, almost cold — quite male (think Thomas Aquinas). The current version is very song and dance, very emotional, very … feminine. It doesn’t really speak to men. Hokey hymns, felt banners, emotionally-oriented sermons and so on.
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Hokey hymns, felt banners…
Very funny nova.You brought back so many memories from my parochial school days.
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Certainly was the norm in seminaries back in the 60s-80s, from what I’ve heard. Benedict has allegedly taken measures to change this.
Sometimes I wonder why gay men have generally teamed up with women against straight men. Seems like a betrayal to me, but I guess straight guys did treat them like garbage for a long time.
Could be because divorce isn’t as much of a stigma in Protestant churches, so divorced men are more likely to attend.
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@hope – OK, more info, with more equal blame for unhappiness and failure of marriage than the first post. women do mature earlier than men do. and good for you re admitting your mistakes in the marriage – I was able to do so as well in my case and it helped me to move on.
my question was actually not for you as much as all the other guys here piling on to the view that marriage is always theft, cuckolding, etc. and the women always wrong. i agree that the laws are flawed but the institution need not be. but you have gone ahead and shown more equal blame, undercutting the point I was trying to make but getting at a better truth. individual cases are always more revealing and useful than generalities.
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Maurice says: “i agree that the laws are flawed but the institution need not be. “
The laws ARE the institution.
LAWS = INSTITUTION
You change the laws, bam! you’ve changed the institution. It’s that simple. We all keep using the word “marriage” in this thread, but we have to notice something.
The marriage that exists on the books as of late is “Marraige 2.0”. It is a different body of law than the one your grandparents married and lived under. It is a different beast. Old crusty conservative pundits don’t get it when they are shaming young men about not marrying. Their mental schema of “marriage” is really “Marriage 1.0” a species that does not exist anymore.
Let us not confuse the two.
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The older Catholic tradition is very cerebral, almost cold — quite male (think Thomas Aquinas).
There was a balance in the old Catholicism. Christianity always had it’s feminine side, but that was a good thing. (If you want to see the problems that arise when a religion is too masculine, see Islam). However, now it has gone too far and turned to feminized goo. One can only hope for a restoration.
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maurice
I may write of more equal blame, but in general people tend to want things to be black-and-white, cut-and-dry. How interesting would stories be if there was never a clear good fighting against an obvious evil? But individual cases are always more nuanced, aren’t they?
Welmer
Yes.
Incidentally, last I heard, he has moved on and has a girlfriend now. So I am happy for him.
doug
Thank you. 🙂
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Exactly. That’s why I think the whole thing ought to be tossed in the garbage. Marriage 2.0 is a disaster.
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i was clear in my post
I was referring to the commenters. I should have been more precise.
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Ah. Well, you’ve always been pleasant and polite, so I won’t criticize too much, but this does tend to confirm my suspicion about most of the women posting on this site.
Too bad about the divorce, but since there weren’t any kids involved (I assume), it’s not a tragedy.
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Not only does Catholicism tend to drive away men, but Catholic women, it seems to me, tend to be girlier than conservative Protestant women.
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Uhhh Guys…
According to the profile on the blog, feministx is either a Transvestite or Transexual. NOT a woman.
“Interests: I could call myself queer identified. I date boys, bois, girls, t girls and probably a few other sexual categories too.”
Why do you think he puts up with all the abuse you heap on him?
Because he loves that you all think he, is a she.
Better keep that in mind before professing how much you want to do him in the ass, etc.
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Sometimes I wonder why gay men have generally teamed up with women against straight men. Seems like a betrayal to me, but I guess straight guys did treat them like garbage for a long time.
Welmer — I think that’s it –> they both see straight men as the enemy in a way. Or rather “patriarchy” as the enemy.
Could be because divorce isn’t as much of a stigma in Protestant churches, so divorced men are more likely to attend.
That could very well be, Welmer.
<There was a balance in the old Catholicism. Christianity always had it’s feminine side, but that was a good thing. (If you want to see the problems that arise when a religion is too masculine, see Islam). However, now it has gone too far and turned to feminized goo. One can only hope for a restoration.
Thursday — fair enough. My last stop in Christianity was the Orthodox Church, which had a nice balance of masculine and feminine. Better than the current RCC, I think.
The laws ARE the institution.
LAWS = INSTITUTION
You change the laws, bam! you’ve changed the institution. It’s that simple. We all keep using the word “marriage” in this thread, but we have to notice something.
The marriage that exists on the books as of late is “Marraige 2.0″. It is a different body of law than the one your grandparents married and lived under. It is a different beast. Old crusty conservative pundits don’t get it when they are shaming young men about not marrying. Their mental schema of “marriage” is really “Marriage 1.0″ a species that does not exist anymore.
Let us not confuse the two.
Here I agree with Puma.
Sure, it’s possible to have a marriage that works. 45% of first marriages end in divorce, but that means 55% do not. Still a coin toss, but you can end up on the right side of the coin. The issue I have is that the reason why the 45% figure is so high is because of the law. The laws need to be changed.
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I came to this site to learn how to be a better “mate.” It was a good thing, at least for a while. I worked hard on the marriage and made it a lot “better,” but the love was missing. Incidentally, it was when I stopped coming here for about half a year that I moved out and got the divorce. Take that as you will.
No kids, although I did have an ectopic pregnancy and a miscarriage.
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actually the catholic church has always played on the emotions, dating from its history as the universal church of the Christendom of the middle ages. Conveying scripture and morality to illiterate peasants necessitated stories with emotional immediacy to illustrate the pionts – lives of the saints, etc. protestantism is more rational, befitting its origins in a later, more literate and proto-scientific age. aquinas was a phillospher who was a theologian because of when and where he lived. (horrible simplification.) the jesuits are another example of that rational tradition, and they were a product of the counter-reformation – that is, the Church’s response to Protestantism.
These are good reminders. I remember that from when I was Catholic — there is the emotional element going back to the tradition too. I generally ignored it, given my bent. But it was there. The masculine element has been dissed, though, today. I mean you can sit around reading papal encyclicals and so on and be immersed in the masculine side of the RCC, but the actual life of the institution here in the US is not like that.
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Wow, you’re pretty needy. Up to $500/week on eating out? For God’s sake, learn to cook! Only takes about $40/week for me to feed myself, and that’s good food, such as: black bean soup, pulled pork sandwiches, fish and chips, fresh fruit, lamb kebab, red beans and rice, meatballs (I make them myself), fried chicken, etc. Also, restaurants are a lot filthier than most people realize and they load foods with huge amounts of salt, sugar and fat.
You want to get in shape? Just start jogging and doing isometric exercises. Things are much easier and cheaper than people think.
BTW, I live in Seattle, where life is quite expensive.
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And I should remember to close my tags:
actually the catholic church has always played on the emotions, dating from its history as the universal church of the Christendom of the middle ages. Conveying scripture and morality to illiterate peasants necessitated stories with emotional immediacy to illustrate the pionts – lives of the saints, etc. protestantism is more rational, befitting its origins in a later, more literate and proto-scientific age. aquinas was a phillospher who was a theologian because of when and where he lived. (horrible simplification.) the jesuits are another example of that rational tradition, and they were a product of the counter-reformation – that is, the Church’s response to Protestantism.
These are good reminders. I remember that from when I was Catholic — there is the emotional element going back to the tradition too. I generally ignored it, given my bent. But it was there. The masculine element has been dissed, though, today. I mean you can sit around reading papal encyclicals and so on and be immersed in the masculine side of the RCC, but the actual life of the institution here in the US is not like that.
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Of that 55% of men that do stay married, how many of them are cuckolded? Let’s asssume a conservative 1950’s/Kinsey-era infidelity rate of %20. So of this 55 guys of men who stay married, probably 11 of them are cuckolds. So the ratio of good guys who didn’t get screwed is now down to 44%-net. Perhaps this 44% don’t get cuckolded, but I wonder how many of them are happy?
Now let’s factor in modern-era infidelity rates. What are we left with then? When you factor it all in, some net-20% of the original group of men who got married are probably still happy and not living a lie. No more.
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“You’re completely wrong. Men want to believe that their obsession with female attractiveness has some reproductive value. Not anymore.
A woman can be gorgeous and have a genetic heart condition (my cholesterol is 248- no man cares or asks). A bad skin condition would make a girl very ugly but would not affect her overall health and reproductive capacity.”
Femx, you’re such a dumb shit it’s unbelievable! All the things you talk about relate to current technology–the last 100 years max. This is not about to overcome thousands of years of evolutionary selection.
Years ago I had a GF who was wonderful in every way, but she was 5′ 5″ and weighed 78 lbs. Always in the hospital or on crutches from phlebitis. I thought about what our life would be like and backed out of it, with no regrets. I hope she’s still around today and that life has been good to her.
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<iWhere I live…childcare costs: $500 or more a week
Cleaning person $125
Eating out/prefab food M-F $400-500
Personal assistant? more than that….
Life coach?
shrink?
Huh?
My cleaning person (team) in DC is $62 pw. $100 per day for food?? Personal assistant? I don’t have one. Why do you need one? Life coach?
Is this intended to be a joke? There is a difference between wants and needs.
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Let’s asssume a conservative 1950’s/Kinsey-era infidelity rate of %20. So of this 55 guys of men who stay married, probably 11 of them are cuckolds. So the ratio of good guys who didn’t get screwed is now down to 44%-net. Perhaps this 44% don’t get cuckolded, but I wonder how many of them are happy?
Now let’s factor in modern-era infidelity rates. What are we left with then? When you factor it all in, some net-20% of the original group of men who got married are probably still happy and not living a lie. No more.
These are fair points. But if the law were changed, it would be different.
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So at one point, a guy might just say — you wanna throw me inprison? fine. But she’s still not getting any alimony from me.
As somebody who has had an older brother and cousin serve time in both the state and federal systems respectively, I’d rather pay her. I understand that you’d feel bitter about paying alimony, but imprisonment for non-payment just isn’t worth it.
There are no trains or blogs in prison…
Does she promise him that she’s have sex with him?
Repeat After Me: Sex with a woman who isn’t in the mood is pointless and no better than jerking off. If she isn’t in the mood, go jerk off. You might actually get a better orgasm without the thrusting and sweating.
Alimony in this age of equal female economic opportunity is absolutely obscene.
In theory, the problem is that if she chose to work part-time or no hours at all or she suppressed her career momentum in order to be able to take care of the children, then when she divorces, her market value to employers is less than what it would have been if she didn’t curtail her work opportunities in the first place, hence why she needs more support.
OTOH, if you’re married with no kids, and you sat at home doing nothing, then you really don’t deserve alimony. If you were a blatent and repeated cheater with kids, then yes, you don’t deserve alimony.
The solution is to have more stable marriages, a society that values marriage as a structured part of a well-functioning society. Marriage is not the enemy.
Marriage is the enemy until women find beta males sexually attractive.
Most men would far rather have a consensual understanding, but our culture is militant against that, and that men’s cheating is some horror. It’s absurd.
If there’s no monogamy, then it’s a broken marriage. If you can’t be monogamous, then you shouldn’t be married.
If she can’t support the kids without him, and can’t win his voluntary help on some basis, then she should have to leave them with him.
In theory, that makes sense, but how many divorced men really want to be single fathers and deal with the cries of the children when it comes to old sentiment of “mommy does/cooks/makes it this way”.
Else she should suck it up and remain in the marriage and make it work for him too, as women can do when they want to.
I had a female friend who’s mom stayed in the marriage despite her problems with her husband (alcoholism, some verbal abuse) because she didn’t want to go on welfare to raise her kids. She divorced him while the kids were in their twenties and finished with school. He paid no alimony. Of course, he avoided paying child support and alimony, but he still went through an expensive divorce and he lost his wife and home. It still isn’t any better if she holds out until the kids are older.
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I don’t think many men would argue over this, but if you take a look around, this kind of divorce is in the small minority – maybe 5% or less – of all divorces.
When young kids are in the picture, the women almost always initiate the divorce one way or the other.
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Welmer–
I agree.
But this is the model and the picture of typical divorce that feminists and many conservatives as well have used to craft our property settlement and child support and alimony laws upon.
Then they slipped in no fault “merely for convenience and to avoid needless messiness, hurt and trauma in court,” by implication mostly that of cheating or abusing men. Yeah right.
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Yea biggest thing to remember is that the woman you divorce is not the woman you married. They demonize the man from what I have seen and heard once the descision is made in their heads. Nothing before that point that was good is taken into consideration in a lot of instances. Family trips laughing good times that is all gone in their minds. That is the problem. Yea ok woman getting left. Yea it sucks. But the woman is just getting left. She is not getting left and made to support her husband that left her for years afterward. . See a difference.
Course now yea great teh trend will reverse now woman will get to pay men men will get to pay woman. Someones always got to pay. They are getting divorced nothing should force them to be together anymore. The government had become stronger in peoples lives than the church was in the last century. It is your god now.
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To me the point isn’t to diss women, but to diss the law. The law sucks. It hands women too many weapons.
Sloppy thinking there my friend.Why do women avail themselves so lustily of those weapon-like laws?Also,how did those laws get to be laws to begin with?Think on it my friend.
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If there’s no monogamy, then it’s a broken marriage. If you can’t be monogamous, then you shouldn’t be married.
DA —
Have to say I am with you on this one. I do think that male adultery is less “serious” in terms of being a threat to the marital relationship, but I see it as a quid pro quo. You don’t stray and she doesn’t stray. That’s reciprocity.
But I do agree with doug1 that if she strays usually it is much more total than men straying.
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In theory, that makes sense, but how many divorced men really want to be single fathers and deal with the cries of the children when it comes to old sentiment of “mommy does/cooks/makes it this way”.
DA —
Doesn’t really reflect my experience. It could be because I have a son, but he loves his time with me. It’s his guy time, not having to deal with Mom. I enforce rules, but as a guy does. He gets it, and loves it. He would love more time with me, and he probably will get it as he advances through his teens. For boys at least once they get to the separation point from Mommy, they often prefer Dad.
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Sloppy thinking there my friend.Why do women avail themselves so lustily of those weapon-like laws?Also,how did those laws get to be laws to begin with?Think on it my friend.
Men.
Seriously, how many women were in the legislatures when no fault was passed? Almost none. These men had no balls.
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Gunny
Yeah. Even Hope is doing that. And I do mean “even”. Hope is a very fair minded kind of girl, or tries to be. Not a big devote of players, to be sure, but with some appreciation that game can work and certainly that there’s much to be said for gender realism.
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@nova – true, well said. men have patriarchal obligations, women have post-patriarchal freesoms. that’s the listing to the left i was trying to describe in a less eloquent way.
@obs – you would pull mad, mind-blowing tail if you walked through certain parts of Moscow after midnight. trust me on this. i know just where to do it.
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Because a whole lot of the time male adultery is in truth pretty trivial.
Married men who cheat end up taking out multiple women off the market. His wife his off-limits, and so is the woman who serves as his mistress, and if that woman is married, then that’s another man’s wife who is being locked away. If you don’t care about beta access to women, then that’s certainly not a problem, but if you do, then you can’t support male adultery.
thomas sowell is a great man but i wouldn’t go walking through anacostia at 3am.
What is the ratio of Thomas Sowell to Tyrone the Gangster in the black population? That affects how Thomas Sowell is treated by the greater society.
Oddly, I would avoid Anacostia and a nice white neighbourhood at night…
Their mental schema of “marriage” is really “Marriage 1.0″ a species that does not exist anymore.
The problem is that Marriage 1.0 sucks for beta males as well since it assigns them sexless women that are incapable of loving them, and who only stay due to having few options. The problem is most beta males are unaware of their unattractiveness, and the alphas and gamer-using men who post here are immune to that problem and have no concerns about saving beta males from an awful plight.
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Everybody does that, Doug. Your portrait of your ex is a fun caricature, after all. The frigid Jewish rad-fem harridan. 😉
Surely there were things that were “good” about her. That doesn’t mean you wanted to stay till you died.
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Seriously, how many women were in the legislatures when no fault was passed? Almost none. These men had no balls.
I notice you didnt respond to my first query.As to the second;legislatures are elected bodies,women make up a majority of the electorate.Also men are more likely to due women’s bidding than vice versa.”Men control everything” is a lame feminist argument.
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Yes, that’s necessary, and I think it’s really up to us. I’m starting to think that what it will take is the establishment of groups of men with common interests/problems. I’ve studied ancient China quite a bit, and despite the seemingly rigid, hierarchical structure of the empire, there were a great many powerful, autonomous patriarchal clans throughout the empire. I imagine the same thing was going on in Rome, but I don’t know the history as well. The groups known as the triads originated with these clans, and the merchant communities that spread overseas from Canton and Fujian were essentially ruled by them. One can still find clan temples spread throughout SE Asia where Chinese communities settled. Chinese patriarchal groups contributed immensely to Chinese wealth and power.
Today, American men see organizations’ only function as profit or power. There is really no sense that they can also provide some form of welfare, job security, or even benefits to their families after they die. Fraternal organizations and a lot of immigrant groups used to do this, but modern American men have been largely atomized, and they also have this idea that it is OK to step on other men to prove their own manliness or to please women. There is really no sense of honor or mutual obligation outside of the military, and even there it ends as soon as you get out.
It’s up to us to rebuild some form of camaraderie, which won’t be easy, but it’s getting to the point of necessity.
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That should be “do” up above
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“transsexual who thinks s/he is all that, but is not:”
Why do you think I am a transsexual? I’m really not clear on why people want to believe that I was born a male.
““Femininity may signal fertility rather than health per se (Johnston 2000, Johnston &Franklin 1993, Symons 1979). The reasoning is that high estrogen/androgen ratiosare associated with both feminine characteristics (e.g., small jaw, full lips) andfertility. A preference for feminine faces, therefore, would target sexually maturefemales. Facial femininity could also signal individual differences in fertility inadult females, to the extent that femininity declines with age.””
The implications of this are greatly exaggerated. We live in a society where people only want a few kids over the course of a lifetime, so a less fertile woman is not a big deal. Even very ugly women can produce children that can survive to the age where they can reproduce themselves. We have a dysgenics problem in our society, after all, where the lowest IQ people reproduce the most (especially when they are NAMs).
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not even chuck norris can roundhouse kick the divorce industry into submission.
Wouldnt it be awfully fun to see Chuck roundhouse kick Gloria Allred in the face?
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Doesn’t really reflect my experience. It could be because I have a son, but he loves his time with me. It’s his guy time, not having to deal with Mom.
I remember when I was younger when my mom went back to Haiti to take care of some familial concerns, and we stayed with our dad. Admittedly, I’m a mommy’s boy, and I love my dad, but it just wasn’t the same as having both of them there. My brother and I missed our mom like crazy because we were so used to her doing things her way. That doesn’t mean that my dad is an awful parent, but to a little kid, stuff like making sandiwches for lunch, and mac & cheese the right way are really important.
The result of that is many men refusing to invest, and withdrawing not just from marriage but from society.
That’s the part that I don’t understand. I may be aware of my general unattractiveness to women, but I don’t see myself going off the grid or going crazy. I have a niece and nephew, friends and family, and hobbies to keep myself occupied. Yes, I may not have a wife and kid to work for, but I’d like a high income to ensure that I can have a comfortable lifestyle, and that requires some degree of investment in the system.
Will it be stable enough for children, shuttling between not just two parents but presumably two sets of step-parents?
It depends on how stable the parents are in general. In theory, if the parents are close with each other, and we’re dealing with the middle class, then it could work out.
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I notice you didnt respond to my first query.As to the second;legislatures are elected bodies,women make up a majority of the electorate.Also men are more likely to due women’s bidding than vice versa.”Men control everything” is a lame feminist argument.
Ovid —
As to your first argument, I think in general that people — men and women alike — will use whatever weapons they have available when they get into a conflict. Right now, women have more weapons than men in a divorce, especially if there are kids … and that means they use them more. I don’t think women are more evil than men, but they have more weapons, so they use them.
Yes of course women have a majority of the electorate, but that just means male politicians have no balls. Yes I know they rely on women to get elected. Men had the decision as to whether to even have a debate about no fault, and they caved. Do I agree they had political pressure. But they had no balls. Where was the debate? These were the proto-alphas that sold almost all men down the river by playing to the pussy vote. I don’t have a lot of good words for them.
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omw-
You’re caricaturing what I’ve said about her. It was nothing like that.
First of all I’ve never treated her as having been Jewish as a diss. I didn’t even mention that anywhere near talking about the divorce. Someone else remembered I’d mentioned it and attacked her on that basis, with some “no wonders”. I just wasn’t feeling like defending her at the time, so left it alone then.
Second she was far from a harridan, and I never suggested she was. Very far. She was a sweetheart in fact. Until the last six months we got along day to day very well. She was sweet to me. We were best friends. In many ways she looked up to me and followed me, sort of. I made the big decisions, just naturally, but in full consultation. E.g. it was me that wanted to get a summer place, and then who figured out where, in full consultation and mutual exploration. Point is I was leading it.
We talked all the time, and shared our troubles, and joys. It would have been nice if she was more athletic and adventurous, but it wasn’t such a big deal either. She got terrrified sailing once in bad whether, so stopped that. But she did learn to ski, sort of, and was happy going skiing with me and friends even if she did tend to like the spa and hot tub more. That was fine. She was happy taking ski trips with me and my friends out West or Europe a couple of times. As was our going to the ballet together which was yeah mostly for her but I liked it too. Some pretty hot balarinas in the NYC Ballet, and we went with friends.
The problem was sexual. But that wouldn’t get better no matter what. She wasn’t that much of a rad feminist about anything but that, or it just didn’t come up, but there it did, and was her bulwark against change.
Anyway, that’s more than I wanted to get into.
It’s simply untrue that I’ve ever presented her as bad news all around. I haven’t and she wasn’t.
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I am aware that at some crucial point in history, our sexual preferences must have evolved because they were advantageous. But I don’t think they are anymore.
Objectively speaking, there isn’t anything wrong with a beta provider or a plain jane with good character.
And while I am not the judge of how boring or repetitive I may seem to others, I for sure know that I am not a tranny. So absurd.
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OMW–
Now is Hope going to say something similar about her ex?
I doubt it.
Divorced women very rarely do.
It does happen sometimes, esp. if he’s famous or something, but it’s rare.
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Yes divorce takes away your balls…or at least a good divorce attorney does…
what I said before, was to take the kids, not rake the kids. I don’t disagree with you that if a woman is to blame for all the mayhem, that she deserves squat. But regardless, the children are not toys. If their mother is being callous to them, should their father be as well?
And yes anyone can get divorced…BUT…what I meant by the beta comment, was simply, that most alphas would see the writing on the wall…if you know what a women may be capable of…sterotypes existing for a reason and all…that particular breed is a fun romp, not wife material to an alpha. And again protect yourself, condoms aren’t enough! LOL
Going out for cocktails….adios!
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It’s up to us to rebuild some form of camaraderie, which won’t be easy, but it’s getting to the point of necessity.
Indeed, Welmer, as you pointed out well in your blog a week or so ago.
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Ah, that’s fine, Doug. I’m not going to dig up your posts, but I distinctly recall you saying some pretty unflattering things about her. Which is fine; it’s the way people cope.
I’ve referred to my first husband as a “self-loathing porn addict” and I’d stand by that assessment, even if there were also things about him that were lovely.
The point is, virtually everyone who’s had a divorce will form a mental image of the other person that is pretty much comprised of the most unflattering aspects of their personalities.
Whoever decides to leave first is going to have the edge on forming that mental picture.
And if you’re a woman, with your ever-declining declining level of attractiveness, what sense does it make to wait another five years for the other shoe to drop?
Once the love goes, so goes your security.
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feministx
It was a metaphor dumbo.
What you are is a completely artificially constructed persona, that you make up as you go along.
I know for sure you’re not really bi-sexual, as opposed to a man hating lesbian.
You just think bi-sexual presents a lot better in your self deluded quest for a husband, and a committed alpha one on all dimensions at that.
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I think if we look at cheating objectively, we’ll find that trashy people of both sexes do the majority of cheating. You’re trailer trash and ghetto types cheat on each other all the time — both men and women.
So if you have a guy who fools around a lot, there’s a good chance the wife is doing so as well. So the adulterous guy often isn’t so much taking women off the market as he is a part of a community of people of both sexes who are all scummy.
This is why it’s important to marry the right person (I learned the hard way). Unfortunately, women are better at fooling men, and I think this is one of the biggest reasons guys get suckered so much more often than women do.
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Dave Alex,
Interesting what you said about your parents, though hardly surprising. As much as I loved my mom, life was just more interesting w/my dad, and when my mom was in hospital after breaking her leg on the icy sidewalk in front of the supermarket one Wintry day (heck of a case!), my dad took over duties for the next week or so.
We got up at the same time he did, around 5AM, had grits, scrambled eggs, etc. He cooked em every morning, and I for one loved. At dinner, among other things, we had potato soup, which he made from scratch. I still eat these things to this day, and when I do, I always think of him.
Being a Marine, my dad had that way about him, and is how he approached things and life, so our shoes, or “Brogans” as he called em, had to be on point, as well as our clothes, and we had to maintain nice haircuts. My sisters, same deal just in feminine form, and he had the next door neighbor’s daughter do their hair every night so they looked nice for school the next day, as well as helped them get their school dresses together etc.
We missed mom and was glad to see her back home, but I for one had a ball when my dad was running things. But then, from the time that I could pretty much do things for myself, I was kinda always in my daddy’s shadow.
O
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This is why it’s important to marry the right person (I learned the hard way). Unfortunately, women are better at fooling men, and I think this is one of the biggest reasons guys get suckered so much more often than women do.
Welmer you are absolutely correct. I believe it was Tom Leykis who warned men about their girlfriends “auditioning” for the role. That the “cool chick” you think you are marrying, may not be so.
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The point is, virtually everyone who’s had a divorce will form a mental image of the other person that is pretty much comprised of the most unflattering aspects of their personalities.
omw —
Maybe. My ex and I are close friends, so we have a very positive image of each other, and remind each other of that. But I agree that in most situations it’s … less even and less flattering as well.
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The problem is that Marriage 1.0 sucks for beta males as well since it assigns them sexless women that are incapable of loving them, and who only stay due to having few options. ~ David Alexander
The thing is Marriage 1.0 was a very different society. In marriage 1.0 there was no sex outside marriage, none of that modern sexual chemical attachment to pump-and-dump players. In Marriage 1.0 their friends were not encouraging each other to divorce, and as a means denigrate the wife’s spouse. There are many other changes but it seems Marriage 1.0 fostered much greater love between the spouses than our current live sleep around in college, date and fornicate, live together for two years, courthouse marriage society.
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This is why it’s important to marry the right person (I learned the hard way). Unfortunately, women are better at fooling men, and I think this is one of the biggest reasons guys get suckered so much more often than women do.
Welmer —
My impression, too. Although I do agree that there are scummy men, in my own personal observation, good men are more likely to be fooled than good women are. Probably because young men are still taught women are more moral and better than men are — as young women are.
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@doug1
“No it is not.
First of all women virtually always get child custody. With that comes huge transfer payments from her ex husband that will amount to about 40-45% of his after tax income if he’s a professional level earning man. As I illustrated a week or so ago to Tood, if both spouses earned the same 100K before tax and child support=alimony transfer payments, that would result in her getting something like $115 after tax and him $55k.
Gender neutral my ass.
Further, it’s hardly gender neutral to ignore the fact that women by and large continue to want to marry up (in status and income), and men to marry younger and pretty and down some (or a lot) is fine.
All of that is fine. What isn’t fine is the co-ercise power of the state in divorce.
Men still essentially can’t believe, and are utterly shocked, that a wife can massively cheat, and still kick him out of the house he entirely paid for and still is, take more than half his money including all her legal expenses and maintenance during the pendency of the divorce, and tax him hugely for two decades into the future.
If men commit adultery their wives can economically punish them for it enormously. And often do.
If women commit adultery they can STILL economically punish their ex husband for their own transgressions enormously, which they’re very likely to do, since when women cheat and fall in love with a lover, unlike men they usually stop having any interest in sex with their husband and THEMSELVES want to leave the relationship.”
Excellent post, feministx needs to fall off a cliff and die if she can honestly cling to the beyond retarded belief that marriage and divorce laws are “gender neutral”. But I think she’s a puton troll here to try and inflame people. There’s no way somebody could actually be that god damn retarded.
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“What you are is a completely artificially constructed persona, that you make up as you go along.
I know for sure you’re not really bi-sexual, as opposed to a man hating lesbian.”
How do you know this?
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omw: you were married to DA?! (meow, hiss, uncalled for, I’m still not deleting it, daym, it must be as irresistable as doug finds it to pick on feminist.)
doug: Sex. You. Problem?
Does not compute.
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I do have to say I was one lucky sob I guess. Most of my angst about marriage comes from watching my dad who was made to leave with just the clothes on his back and his van. I did get my ex to agree last the last 3 years since I had told her to leave were not shit shortly after she said it. She attempted the start of demonization. I cut that shit out. She also gave me some compliments right before I came over here after being seperated for a while.
We used to hang out at a resteraunt for hours playing cards and talking and laughing. Shit is crazy. I needed to be rich. I suppose after I make it could just swoop her again no problem.
She did cheat at end though and I didn’t. When my sister told me she was cheating on me. I was like no in a dismissive way not defensive but no as in it never entered my mind as possible. I really thought it wasn’t possible.
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My brother jokes about this.
“So I called Dad, and he bitched about what a lazy money grubbing bitch Mom is.”
Me: “pretty much how it always goes…”
Him: “And then I called Mom, and she gently reminded me that we’re the products of a hypocritical lying slob.”
Me: “yeah, par for the course.”
Him: “I’m just not sure they’ve actually met each other.”
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“Excellent post, feministx needs to fall off a cliff and die if she can honestly cling to the beyond retarded belief that marriage and divorce laws are “gender neutral”. But I think she’s a puton troll here to try and inflame people. There’s no way somebody could actually be that god damn retarded.”
You people believe what you want. In this thread, I have stated that I thought child custody was awarded on an unfair basis and that I did not care if alimony was discontinued.
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What you’ve written about your ex is about normal for most long-term relationships and marriages. Friendship. Rapport. Some good times, and some bad times. I did write that my ex-husband was loving, and we were also very good friends, as you described you were with your ex.
The thing is, I was fearful of leaving him. I stayed with him because the alternative was difficult. Always had been. I’d tried to leave him for many years, even before I married him.
There had been cops involved at several different points during our relationship. That’s not really “normal.” For years I’d defended him, against all those people who questioned my age when we met. When he went to trial for domestic abuse, I testified that nothing happened, that everything was alright. I got the lawyer to help seal and expunge that off his records.
Now, having been a long-time reader of this blog and agreeing with many of the premises, I tried as much as I could to stay with him and be a good wife. When I initiated the divorce, I also consciously tried not to be one of those “bad” ex-wives who is after all the assets and money, etc.
I suppose, today, I just needed to vent, because he’s been writing vicious, terrible things about me on a website we both frequent, where he knows I can read them. I’m feeling “vilified,” and I suppose I wanted to set the record straight, at least in my own mind.
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@anony – maybe Marriage 1.0 was not all that. Women and men have always cheated, but women are better at hiding it. Does anyone remember that study from a Los Angeles hospital in the ’40s – relevant to this week’s MPT thread – in which babies were tested against their fathers’ blood (this was blood type, not DNA) and something like 10% of the babies could not have been the stated fathers’. There must be a link out there – it’s pretty well known.
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maybe Marriage 1.0 was not all that. Women and men have always cheated, but women are better at hiding it. Does anyone remember that study from a Los Angeles hospital in the ’40s – relevant to this week’s MPT thread – in which babies were tested against their fathers’ blood (this was blood type, not DNA) and something like 10% of the babies could not have been the stated fathers’. There must be a link out there – it’s pretty well known.
Yes, but if it was discovered there would be a consequence. Today there is none. I mean we can push for mandatory PT, and I think we have a good shot at that one, but we also have enemies who will oppose it. The current framework, leaving aside PT, downright encourages cuckolding. The old one had it, too, but there were consequences if discovered. Not today — today a woman is sexually free to take her seed from whom she will, regardless of marital status.
Of course men screw around, too. That is not to be rewarded either. But the new bit has to do with women. And one is tempted to say — well then that is equal. But it is not — because no woman will ever be forced to raise her husband’s kids by another woman against her will. That is a risk that only men bear. And it is an activity that is treated today as if it is equal to male adultery, in risk, which it is not.
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Anyway, speaking of the disgustingly saccharine nature of the current church, one wonders why there is no serious “market” for more hardline patriarchal interpretations.
Those churches are out there, and growing, but only because they have so many more kids than anyone else. They don’t seem to attract a lot of converts.
No apparent attraction to the average guy on the street, y’know?
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Anyway, speaking of the disgustingly saccharine nature of the current church, one wonders why there is no serious “market” for more hardline patriarchal interpretations.
Those churches are out there, and growing, but only because they have so many more kids than anyone else. They don’t seem to attract a lot of converts.
No apparent attraction to the average guy on the street, y’know?
Maybe.
I left to go East, crossed the Bosphorus and so on. It was slightly better there, but still very imbalanced. I have never been inclined to try protestantism, really.
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David Alexander
No hugs and no porn either. Of course you will probably get sex with an Alpha.
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I think it’d be worth pursuing and lobbying, if the argument is for the “health of the baby.” That is, the purpose is to determine what genetic or health risk factors may exist for the child. It would be an argument for mandatory maternity and paternity testing.
Having recently been pregnant, the OB/GYNs do a battery of tests on pregnant women. I was tested for various STDS including AIDS, and this is a mandatory law where I live — not sure if it is a federal mandate, but it is at least a state law. This is to ensure the health of the baby.
Just frame it as an issue that is not oriented towards cuckolded men specifically, and more oriented towards health and a gender-neutral issue — I’m sure a lot of women would support this.
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Well, mainline Protestantism is no better, in terms of acting like a man. LOL.
You’d have to find a really weird little country church; something like the one Michael Pearl runs.
I hear there are dissenting traditionalist Catholic congregations out there, too. (though, ok, if you think the Pope isn’t really the Pope, then you probably aren’t a Catholic, right?)
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Just frame it as an issue that is not oriented towards cuckolded men specifically, and more oriented towards health and a gender-neutral issue — I’m sure a lot of women would support this.
Probably practical, but isn’t it sad that we have to resort to subterfuge?
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I hear there are dissenting traditionalist Catholic congregations out there, too. (though, ok, if you think the Pope isn’t really the Pope, then you probably aren’t a Catholic, right?)
Yeah there is one here, but I crossed that bridge when I joined the Orthodox Church. If you’re going to diss the pope, may as well do it properly, ahem.
If I ever go back to church it will be to the OC.
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FeministX (whatever sex he/she/it is) gets the prize for the most willfully stupid comment of the day.
Of course men prefer younger and prettier women, with greater fertility, because even if a man is uninterested in children, younger and prettier women are sexier.
Sean Penn is having sex with Natalie Portman, not Beth Ditto. When a man who can have almost any woman, over and over again chooses the younger, hotter model, it takes willful blindness not see it.
Women delude themselves constantly that a few aging harpies with IVF and designer eugenic yuppie babies can have kids after half a million dollars of fertility treatments. Or that aging, gristly like harpies like Madonna can use their money to “buy” some young hot stud. Please.
Older women are not worth much of anything on the sexual/romantic market. They just aren’t. They’re worth even LESS than a beta male.
Most women, if they delay childbirth, won’t have kids at all. They’ll end up alone and with cats as a substitute for a family. Or what have you. It’s like Doris Lessing’s “Children of Men.”
As delusional as men can be about what really drives women, women can be just as deluded. Just as foolish and stupid.
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Practicality means that rather than taking on the 400 pound gorilla by your bare hands and likely being mauled to death, you use a bit more finesse.
I’m a big fan of open honesty and the truth. Everyone involved should know that the testing is taking place and get access to the results. The truth ought to be exposed to the light of day.
Emotionally, it may be an uncomfortable fact for us women to know that young and pretty girls are fascinating to men. But it is certainly a fact most self-aware individuals are keen on, and no amount of self-delusion can remove this truth. It is what it is.
At the same time, the feelings of love and intense sexual bonding is another biological truth. This is no more a feel-good statement than the previous statement on the male biological imperative. The difference is that sometimes people choose to focus more on the “negative” truth than the “positive” truth. That way leads to the same dark spiral that took me a long time to climb out of…
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ask yourself: why do you think this is?
Answer:
Women want to reserve the right to cuckold.
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Practicality means that rather than taking on the 400 pound gorilla by your bare hands and likely being mauled to death, you use a bit more finesse.
Okay it is a fair practical point. I will take that on my lobbying travels. Thanks for it.
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Hope:
If I recall correctly, the testing to establish paternity involves different techniques (which don’t get out much specific genetic info) than testing for health-related factors. It would be a weak argument to make, indeed, and I don’t think anyone will buy ‘we need to find out who the father is, every single time, to see if they’ll turn out health-wise like him’. Because the only information you reap from a paternity test is that; everything else has to be specifically tested for. If the argument is based on testing specifically for certain genes, then disclosure of the results may become effectively an issue: why do you have to tell them about paternity/maternity when you’re checking for health things? So it then becomes a seperate debate whether you make it mandatory or opt-out that they are disclosed.
The state can always make the ‘we need to know who the right person to get child support from/refer to when something child-related happens’ argument. And that is fair enough.
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lol. Yeah, he and DA had more in common that I’d like to admit to myself. He used to drive me nuts complaining that he missed his chance to go to college, when there was a college five miles down the road.
But it wasn’t the “Right” college, not the big state school he imagined.
In that line, I always felt like I wasn’t the “Right” girl, and that he resented me a little for it.
You know? I just can’t be the big impressive state school that all your friends partied at; I’m the quirky little college down the road.
I can’t make you love me. 😀
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ask yourself: why do you think this is?
My answer:
For women, the welfare of babies > welfare of evil patriarchal men. It’s very hard to make for feminist-oriented viewpoint to see anything as Oppressing Men. Not every woman wants to cuckold, that’s silly. The figures are still at ‘Most Women Do Not Want to Cuckold’.
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Bah, you beat me to the punch.
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Oh, shoot, me and Welmer suggested the same thing. Universe collapses.
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Bhetti–
It got to the point where I had to prove that to myself once again Bhetti. It really did. Among other things. Just need.
We got back from the honeymoon and it was like someone had flipped a light switch. First she had four to six months of depression. Turned out that had always been an issue but she’d hid that from me. Then some things never got back to whether they’d been and been going. Yeah those things.
She’d been an extremely good girl especially for a non orthodox Jewish girl, though I wasn’t looking for that. Instead when we first met we clicked emotionally just immediately. We realized we’d been talking for hours at the party where we did, and that we felt immediately like we’d known each other forever. She just blossomed with me sexually before marriage. Joy and heat. Sky seemed to be the limit. I should have dated her longer before we married. It was in many ways a good time for me to get married and I moved too quickly. (Think the equivalent of about to start your internship, only older.)
Then that light switch. Tried all sorts of things. Therapy of course. Anti depressants, though it took years before she’d try them. She had diet theories. She did also have rad feminist attitudes toward sexuality (McKinnon/Dworkin), it turned out. She’d also hidden that from me. Maybe she just had an extremely low sex drive, but had gone into a marriage panic that made her briefly highly sexually energized until she became married to a catch and secure.
Really did try a lot. There’s lots I could say but not here. But to be honest, after a while, a long while, it’s hard to keep trying a lot.
Hence I cheated. Not for a long time but finally. She discovered it.
It devastated her because she knew there were deep reasons there that she simply wouldn’t / couldn’t address. She couldn’t talk about it or think about it. She alternated between needing me enormously to comfort her, and stone cold ignoring me. Then she visited her parents over Xmas and never came back to me.
It was right that we got divorced. Given no kids, I should have divorced her on my own bat a lot earlier. Thing is, when I really commit I tend to be very loyal.
There. Lots of soul bearing. Probably not smart.
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Welmer: Well, you put it better.
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Not in public at least 😛
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The short of it, according to this blog: feminism, systematic subjugation of the male, divorce theft, and women are inherently immoral. Am I passing the test?
This is my own view on the subject matter.
There is a lot of the “blame the victim” mentality throughout different human societies at different times. Humans are simply attracted to the strong, the beautiful, the confident, the charismatic and the willful, which overwhelmingly includes those who are able to pass on their genes.
A cuckolded man is in essence displaying his great weakness, that his so-called mate thinks his genetic material is of such little worth that she would rather cuckold him than breed with him. That is something often people in general do not take easy pity to, much like the way most people ignore the homeless bum on the street — until, of course, they themselves end up in the same position.
It’s like the way a lot of rape kits remain dormant in many testing sites. The victims are not easily identified as they are all anonymous, and with such a level of impersonal barrier, people simply do not care. This happens most significantly in large cities. It is not that the people involved lack any moral fiber, but that simply most individuals does not have the capacity to care so much for so many others.
The human animal is not meant to live in such large population groups. Dunbar’s number is significantly lower than the number of people living in modern towns and cities. Nation-states are simply too large to fit human morality. Humans are most moral when they live in small villages of genetic-closeness.
Societies approach entropy the larger and more heterogeneous they become. That the modern nation-states have not degenerated into civil war after civil war already is a testament to how malleable and adaptable the human animal truly is. Moral decline and interpersonal alienation are the trade offs for our modern luxuries and technologies.
All modern systems of government and bodies of laws will have this issue to contend with — we have not yet evolved beyond our tribal, primitive mental states. It has simply not been long enough.
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Marriage is hard. Particularly if you marry the wrong person. Or for the wrong reasons.
This isn’t news, of course. But it’s easy to overlook it. 😦
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Women play the game for keeps. If they have an advantage they use it- mercilessly. They’re not about to give up the advantage of beta exploitation via cuckoldry for the sake and benefit of MEN- let alone the very beta men that they’re wired to despise.
A woman’s compassionate nature does not extend to weak men that they’ve judged unfit to breed. Don’t expect their sympathy or understanding on this issue.
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Bhetti
Not many women get married thinking they want to, that’s certainly true, even in the decadent and getting worse big city Anglosphere.
Even fewer young girls at the peak of their dating market value have that as their marriage ambition. The number of young women who do I think closely approaches zero.
Six years or a bit more into marriage things sometimes change. This is partly biology being unmasked by a newly and on any mass basis uniquely permissive culture (as opposed to among a tiny aristocratic elite or low down lowlife mess). This is partly direct cultural suggestion as to what liberated and empowered Anglosphere women deserve and should seek out if they have anything on the ball.
Still it you read cheating wife blogs you will see that they rarely consciously think they’re trying to get preggers by someone not their husband. However they may be careless about it and even guiltily thrilled and a twitter about it. These subconscious urges may be big and consequential.
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Bhetti–
Easily the most misattributed paternity however occurs down the socioeconomic scale, not high up it, and especially not among young London doctors, Muslim or not.
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doug1
“It was a metaphor dumbo.”
Nope, not a metaphor.
This “fem” pisses standing up.
“Her” name is Tim and he also does engine work on BMW’s.
feministx
“I for sure know that I am not a tranny. So absurd.”
Right, right, I know, tran-sexual implies that you changed sexes, you were ALWAYS a woman, just stuck inside a man’s body. Got it.
Racer X:
“feministx, Racer X would love to fuck you in the ass. And you will love it. Mmmm…”
Most gay guys do.
feministx:
“Racer X, yes you’ve always understood me.”
And let the sword fighting begin.
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I’m terrified that I’d do that to who I’d end up with. I’m also terrified he’d do it to me. Not DA-like enough to not risk it.
Clarification: terrified I’d freeze, hate intimacy with him and become genuinely disinterested out of nowhere. And vice versa.
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“Right, right, I know, tran-sexual implies that you changed sexes, you were ALWAYS a woman, just stuck inside a man’s body. Got it.”
Can anyone actually explain why I am thought to be male or transexual or a lesbian or a butch or anything else that I claim not to be?
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It is the weekend. Time for some music.
Regarding heroes: There are none (anymore)
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Bhetti–
I’ve gotten wiser and better at reading people, especially girls, since then Bhetti.
There’s not the slightest chance of the first. I haven’t been kidding when I’ve called you a corked volcano.
Just barely corked.
You’re in no ‘maybe getting too old to get married to someone good’ panic. You’re in frustrated torture that your beliefs won’t allow you to have sex, NOW, with the kind of man you’ve become crystal about wanting.
Before you had confusion about what kinds of men it might be, and how many men were so disappointing. Now reading here you feel clarity about that, and hunger
So no Bhetti, no lightswitch issues on your part for you. I’d stake my life on that.
As for the second, BIG CHANCE. That’s what you have to be concerned about. We can talk about that. We should.
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fem: ignore it. Dislike of your persona = lots of low-evidence conspiracy theories. People do that a lot on the Internet.
It’s as funny as anything when you satirically go along with it. Er, for personal amusement, anyway.
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Don’t let them tell you country and western guys don’t got game.
Have a great weekend and take it easy.
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Bhetti
Yesterday I get castigated for being too mysterious, which you claimed to NOT like, unlike some other things.
This evening you warn me to not give personal details. Or any more of them I guess.
Jeeesh.
Thin line is what I have to walk, it is.
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Bhetti–
Meanwhile, that word I crave, that innocent little word, THAT I can’t get to save my life.
Even though you know I crave it.
Hell, probably mostly because you DO know I crave it.
Well OK, maybe it’s mostly because I told others I crave it, and you have to get all embarrassed about that.
But hey, that was all good. People thought it was cute and all, and that you were. (In a way it’s adorable that that embarrassed you.)
But oh, no. Punishing me you are.
Great. Just great.
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Guys, before you you head out to the clubs remember you are the Gamemaster
Sara I and Hope:
You can
skip straight to the OSHA/rainbows and unicorns stuff at 3:44 if you prefer.
[if the above link works, otherwise just skip forward in the video]
🙂
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Oh wait….
Bliss.
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doug: which is why you should let the alpha out, just ignore my conflicting desires of protecting you/myself versus fulfilling my intense curiosity, and do what the heck you want…
But you already knew that 😉
Def: You’re ever so thoughtful, you are, but the first video is not available in my country. I have found an alternative version but thanks for the background music.
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doug: I’m actually in real life blushing.
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Just for sara I 😉
Rockstar game
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Def: You did explanatory mouseover text for Sara/Hope too?! That’s thoughtfulness.
doug: Just for doing that to me, I’m going to call all this begging beta. HA! *withholds the word ‘trouble’ as revenge weapon, inciting female-gender hatred* I just don’t know what happened to my doug. It happens to the best of them.
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As we can see rock stars do not need much game:
[lyrics to Rainbow All Night Long]
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Interesting coincidence. I was listening to that whole CD by Paul Oakenfold, thanks to the amazing man I mentioned earlier. That particular segment is something I liked quite a bit.
I’ve been having a lot of interesting coincidences like this since I met him.
One of the coincidences (and there are many) is that he wears a gem pendant. It looks exactly like the one that a character on this anime show I watched as a little girl wore. The exact same color and shade, down to the very shade and proportions.
I had remembered the pendant after all these years because it had such a profound effect on me when I was younger. I looked it up on Google to verify that it wasn’t just my imagination. He said that originally he was interested in another one, but somehow ended up going with the one he chose out of impulse.
Another interesting coincidence that happened to me recently, concerning Kamal S. on this blog. Incidentally, that afternoon, my friend from high school had also talked to the man with the pendant.
http://kali-yuga.org/?p=231&cpage=1#comment-19
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Bhetti: You did explanatory mouseover text for Sara/Hope too?! That’s thoughtfulness.
Except it did not work (video just plays from start).
Sorry about the first vid. di not consider blocking by country. In any case, The Stranglers were British. Likely came and went before you were born. 🙂
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“It’s as funny as anything when you satirically go along with it. Er, for personal amusement, anyway.”
I may as well. Especially with the tranny-entity thing. I mean, I identify myself as a queer identified with diverse tastes in sexual partners. Insulting me as a “tranny” etc. over my sexual fluidity is kind of like insulting a gay person by calling him a fag.
-femx, resident manhating transbutch lesbian.
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Happened to a real life acquaintance: British guy walks into an American store, asks them if he can have some fags.
He gets thrown out and is never allowed in again. He only figures out what happened halfway home.
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This is my last entry.
If you are wondering about my humor: Am I wry? No!
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no. if the children are 18, the ex-wife deserves nothing. she can find a job on her own.
This is where you go off the rails. She has forgone opportunities and given the man a benefit (children) at his behest and needs to be compensated. Basic justice.
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Am I Wry: I really had to stop there to figure out if the singer was a man.
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This is where you go off the rails. She has forgone opportunities and given the man a benefit (children) at his behest and needs to be compensated. Basic justice.
But NOT if she cheats or leaves unilaterally.
It’s the same as if you are an employee. You spend your time and get your dime. If you quit = no severance. If you are fired = severance. Same idea. Don’t go bonking the pool boy, leave your husband, and get alimony — that is an absurd injustice.
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Hope
Glad you enjoyed the musical interlude [and the rainbows and unicorns 🙂 ].
Glad to hear about your new man. Don’t forget to send him here. It would be a shame to lose him because he had poor game 😉
Have a great weekend full of happy coincidence.
PS If you want to learn how to e-flirt, watch Bhetti.
[I have a special musical request coming up just for her and doug1]
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Def: Not surprised. The best laid schemes of mice and urls 404 oft today.
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doug1, Bhetti
For you two lovebirds:
Have a great weekend all.
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Bhetti
But he is a rockstar, so that does not matter. Rockstar game trumps all.
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Except for Rod Stewart.
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Well Well Well………………………WELL!
Another gigantic thread because we are getting to the heart of the matter.
Does anyone else see why Im interested in the FUTURE of Artificial womb research (that has already birthed some animals in labs!)
Question of you men out there:
Would you (MEN) be better have having your two kids via a lab if you are a successful unmarried 35 year old, and letting your mom and siblings (and babysitters or child care at your job) watch them until they start school, or RISKING YOUR ASS FINANCIALLY VIA OUR “family” COURTS?
Please keep the ladies responses about how they resist paternity testing and think our divorce laws are just great they way they are in mind………
ANSWERS GENTLEMEN???????????????????????????
I think we all know you guys would like to have that option wouldn’t you? That way you could get married if you ever came across “Ms. Right”, but you could still have children to love and enjoy if all you meet are selfish fucking cunts you pump and dump. If you did marry, and she turned out to be screwing the guy down the street………………..she couldn’t take YOUR kids from you, or get any child support from you, because they’d be YOURS. Does this deal look a little better to you guys if you think about your sitution from a perspective of a man in his 30’s or 40’s (or hell 50’s or 60’s).??????? I think so.
Japan is gonna do it anyway…………………..in about a decade if one researcher is right
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Def: Oh, poor Rod. Not only his daughter, but an unexpected rejection from sara too.
Don’t bring up the L WORD! *DEAD FAINT* (I feel like I’m violating copyright, but it’s mighty convenient) Even the attraction stretches credulity, because I don’t even know how he looks or sounds like or even his ethnicity. He’s the stranger in the dark, with the gloves and the mask…
and, wait, what was my point again?
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Raising kids isn’t really that expensive, but it’s the time that really gets you. If they are little, i.e. under six or seven, the time commitment is enormous. You have to dress them, bathe them, keep an eye on them constantly, feed them, take them with you to the store, etc.
You have to intervene in their constant disputes (if there is more than one child), you have to comfort them when they are upset, you have to give them positive reinforcement, discipline them when they are naughty, read to them, teach them how to do things properly, etc. It really is more than a full time job. I know this because I’ve put more effort into raising my children than my ex for the last two years (she dumped them on her mother during her time with them so she could fool around, like your typical ghetto/trailerpark trash).
These days women don’t find such a job fulfilling, and a lot of them simply walk out of marriage because of that. They think they can foist their children off on others and take their husband’s money, and they’re often correct in that assumption. If they had their way, they’d be flirting with men online all day (like omw) rather than taking care of their children and running a household. The poor little things are just too tender to be mothers, and there are plenty of horny men out there just aching for some young pussy who will reinforce their opinion.
In my neighborhood, which is rather diverse, one of the problems we have is young women who take their children to the library and leave them there for hours so they can spend time getting their nails done or visiting their paramours. I can’t even go to the library and read in peace, because there are so many little kids running around screaming. The babymommas have effectively turned the librarians into their free babysitters.
So when a guy pays child support, there’s a good chance the ex is spending the money on shoes, getting her nails done, going out with one of her boyfriends, etc. I have no problem with a guy supporting his kids, but why don’t they make child support like WIC (Women with Infants and Children), where you can only spend the money on food for the kids? Why can the government call women to account, but not the guy who is handing them a check “for the kids?”
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I would hate to think some of the trauma 24/7 exposure to me may result in the children.
‘Mummy, I want to have a go on doug jr’s toy monster trucks.’
‘My lovely daughter, rethink this decision carefully. You are selecting a non-conventional gender role, which will result in mental agony throughout your life and a sense of superiority over men which will make you hate your brother as well as most men in the future. It is of course, up to you, but realise you will die alone.’
‘…’
‘Come, I know! I have fun skin cancers I want to teach you about! Can you say malignant melanoma, sweetie?’
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Welmer —
It’s the dregs of patriarchy.
We need a system that empowers men to be fathers, as well as women to be mothers. And “empowers” is the key word. It isn’t about a slap-happy bullshit sociology professor’s bullshit views. It’s about what works. And what works is men and women raising kids together.
No no fault divorce if there are kids. And if there are kids and a reason to divorce lean towards joint parenting other than in situations where mom or dad are addicts or abusers.
This would go a long way.
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But NOT if she cheats or leaves unilaterally.
Agreed. Only if there is fault by the man.
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No, not justice. Do you think men don’t forgo opportunities when they get married and have children? Do you think men all wanted to stay in that crappy job to keep the kids fed and clothed?
Why doesn’t he get alimony? And how are the children any more the man’s than the woman’s benefit? Ridiculous assumption, there. You really have to accept that your ideal is considered just plain abnormal today, even if the divorcees and sexual veteran women here would be happy for you to keep up the illusion (it gives them great leverage when naive men go around expounding anachronistic, unrealistic ideals).
You’ve never experienced marriage or children, so I’m not sure you understand. When you find your virgin and she bears your child, tell me after the kid is 18 that she pulled all the weight and you just lived as always and I might listen out of sheer disbelief. If you really think you can get your wife to manage everything as though you had no responsibilities besides work, then you will most definitely be disabused of that notion in an uncomfortable manner. Either you will have to shell out all of a high income (at least top 10% for men) to her to accept that, or she’ll demand a lot more work at home than you’re accustomed to. Chances are it will be both, and there’s a good chance your former virgin will try something new just because she was “deprived” when young.
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What’s the most delicious thing in the world? this is.
Peter
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BTW, Thursday, I had a nun suggest to me that it was my fault my wife cheated because I’d taken a part-time job to help raise the kids (at my ex-wife’s insistence), and therefore wasn’t being a good enough provider. She also suggested I bear the adultery patiently and let her do as she pleased while still living a chaste life and raising my kids.
So much for Catholic morality. I haven’t gone to church since.
Welmer, if only she’d closed it off with “… because you will go to heaven, while your wife will go to hell”.
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No, not justice. Do you think men don’t forgo opportunities when they get married and have children? Do you think men all wanted to stay in that crappy job to keep the kids fed and clothed?
Why doesn’t he get alimony? And how are the children any more the man’s than the woman’s benefit? Ridiculous assumption, there. You really have to accept that your ideal is considered just plain abnormal today, even if the divorcees and sexual veteran women here would be happy for you to keep up the illusion (it gives them great leverage when naive men go around expounding anachronistic, unrealistic ideals).
You’ve never experienced marriage or children, so I’m not sure you understand. When you find your virgin and she bears your child, tell me after the kid is 18 that she pulled all the weight and you just lived as always and I might listen out of sheer disbelief. If you really think you can get your wife to manage everything as though you had no responsibilities besides work, then you will most definitely be disabused of that notion in an uncomfortable manner. Either you will have to shell out all of a high income (at least top 10% for men) to her to accept that, or she’ll demand a lot more work at home than you’re accustomed to. Chances are it will be both, and there’s a good chance your former virgin will try something new just because she was “deprived” when young.
Even better, Welmer.
Listen folks. Men. Listen to some of us who have lived in this system. Don’t post speculative bullshit. Some of us have lived through this shit. Listen to us, and not the women who come in here. Listen to us. We know better, only because we have experienced this shit system that the women’s groups created to screw us.
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“It’s about what works. And what works is men and women raising kids together.”
True, but the only way to get men and women to raise kids together is to have them married. And the only thing which promotes marriage is one religion or the other.
At least with the Romans and in modernity, the decline of religion and the decline of marriage tend to go hand in hand. The decline in religion comes first. As it is the foundation, the edifice built upon it begins to become unstable. What is best is actually to just knock the rotting edifice down. Duct taping the thing is only going to prolong the destruction and delay the building of the new one.
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RJS and Kamal, props for the advice.
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This fellow has been paying alimony for the last 22 years for a marriage that barely lasted 10 years:
http://www.divorce360.com/community/advice/view/1781/when-do-alimonymaintenancepayments-cease.aspx
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z: Would you (MEN) be better have having your two kids via a lab if you are a successful unmarried 35 year old, and letting your mom and siblings (and babysitters or child care at your job) watch them until they start school, or RISKING YOUR ASS FINANCIALLY VIA OUR “family” COURTS?
This will be a game changer. “Incubator Prievilege” for the women will end very quickly after this.
Combine artificial wombs with domestic-robots, and its done. The Age of Legal Parasitism will be over.
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So, as a purely hypothetical exercise, because we wouldn’t want to upend the marital-judicial complex, what would be the total cost of buying eggs of fine provenance; having a good lab fertilize them with oneself; paying a host mother to deliver the payload; and finally paying a nanny to take care of it for a number of years?
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Answer:
A whole lot less than marrying an American woman.
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Glengarry – Ricky Martin did precisely you are suggesting. Ok so he is not the most heterosexual of males, but there is no reason why freethinking hetero guys can’t do the same. No Heather McCarthy or Ms. Phil Collins for him.
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The powers of children:
http://community.livejournal.com/obama_daily/223597.html
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Guys,
This Indian firm can deliver your baby turn-key for $25,000. That’s less than the cost of many middle-class Bridezilla weddings, let alone the ring, the honeymoon. That means you are already in the black straight out of the gates, even before Day 1 of your AW marriage.
http://www.ivfsurrogacy.com/surrogacy.htm
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Hmmm….
Wanna go into business, puma?
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Would you (MEN) be better have having your two kids via a lab if you are a successful unmarried 35 year old, and letting your mom and siblings (and babysitters or child care at your job) watch them until they start school, or RISKING YOUR ASS FINANCIALLY VIA OUR “family” COURTS?
Yeah, but why would your mom or siblings do that. Presumably thay would be working as well, or have their own children to raise. You would end paying a nanny to raise the kid(s), at no small expense, especially for a good one. Child care at your job? Most places don’t have that, unless your in Sweden (that hellhole!). Children are an expensive and time consuming endeavor, one way or another. I doubt most straight men really want to raise one by themselves.
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Today’s zeitgeist is friendly to the feminist cause because it is economically useful. Cheaper labor supply means greater economic productivity. On average, nations in which the females also enter into the workforce have higher GDPs. The ease of divorce and breakdown of the family unit means greater allegiance and reliance on the economic unit of the day — the corporation, the government, or any other system which hires employees.
Follow the trail of money. Where does it flow? Women are among the biggest drivers of the consumerist economy. Humans are status-oriented creatures. Women buy things to denote their higher status among their own peer groups, and they want high-status men. Men, in turn, buy things to denote their higher status to impress women and compete for status among male hierarchies. The ruling class wants the general population to keep doing this, but eventually they ran up against a wall when trying to increase profits each quarter. The solution? Give people access to easy credit.
More propaganda advertising to make people unsatisfied with their lives and what they have. “Oh look your girlfriend / wife is ugly and getting old, so why don’t you trade up? Oh look your boyfriend / husband is not buying you that much, get him to buy you more stuff and make him work harder. You need more more more. Buy more stuff! Make more money! It’s the only path to true happiness.”
Money and pleasure are the twin evils of modern society. People will lie many lies and commit many wrongs in the pursuit of money and pleasure. These have replaced religion and God. Indeed, money has the word God printed boldly across it (In God We Trust). Rampant consumerism and hedonism lead to those moral question marks that you decry. The interpersonal alienation and seclusion, moral decline and urban anonymity, they make people feel restless and unhappy, which stimulates the economy further because people want to buy more stuff — to make up for the emptiness they feel inside. There is no need to pin all the blame on its blind participants who have been indoctrinated and brainwashed into this system from birth.
What do I know of indoctrination and brainwashing? I was raised in mainland China. I was thoroughly indoctrinated in Chinese propaganda as a child, and then immigrated to America to become indoctrinated in American propaganda. It is through these two sets of often times conflicting sets of value judgments about nations and cultures that I realized that both were full of poo poo. I specifically took courses on Tibet in college so that I can try to get some of that young “China is the best” brainwashing out of my head.
The Chinese are overall a very intelligent people, but the officials have devised a systematic method of indoctrination which begins on small children and continues throughout people’s adolescent and adult lives. When I was a little kid growing up in China, the teachers would pat us on the backs for doing patriotic things and singing patriotic songs. History class was full of lessons on how magnificent the ancient Chinese were, and literature class was about studying great ancient poems and writings. TV programs for adults were also often about the imperial periods during which China was more powerful.
The lessons are not subtle, but subtlety is not needed on small children. It is not unlike the Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy stories told to children in the west, only in China they never grow out of the idea that China is the most wonderful place — the “center” of the world (China: Zhong Guo; Zhong = center, Guo = country). After coming to America and studying nothing but western classics and western history, I realized that everyone engages in this behavior to an extent. In my ESL classes and in high school, I met and became friends with many immigrants from all over the world. Each and every last one of them, I could tell, was trying to hold onto some piece of national pride, but it was extremely difficult to do in the face of the very strong American nationalistic propaganda. America is very powerful indoctrination.
The current cultural milieu in America is useful to the ruling class the same way that the cultural lessons that are taught in China are useful to its ruling class. They care not one bit for the sufferings of a few if they maintain the structure the way they envision it, with profit and power for themselves. This is the same kind of brainwashing being done with feminism/equality nowadays, and as much as it is not “good” for me to say it because it “benefits” me in many ways, this is what is being done to the masses.
By way of closing, America is a large, diverse nation-state of extreme political tensions. Politics is not even a subject matter most people think about in China. A tiny percentage of the population will even begin to question the state and the status quo. So keep questioning your reality, and be skeptic of what you think you know and understand. Never be static.
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The powers of children:
http://community.livejournal.com/obama_daily/223597.html
Read the comments and understand why women being allowed to vote is just silly.
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Lots of guys’ moms would be thrilled to be grandmothers no matter what. As for nannies, if you are a well-heeled man and you need one you would spend a lot less on a full time nanny than a wife. Let’s say 24k/year for a middle aged immigrant woman (not a bad salary for them) to take care of your kid while you work, and you only need them full time for a few years. You could also save A LOT on housing without a wife. A man and a child or two would require only a two bedroom to be comfortable. That’s cheap.
BTW, lots and lots of women demand full time nannies AND money from the husband.
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If you really think you can get your wife to manage everything as though you had no responsibilities besides work, then you will most definitely be disabused of that notion in an uncomfortable manner.
Married men here are having a good LOL at that idea!
Hands up anyone who has heard anything to the effect of, “When you get home from work, that’s when I get to rest!”
You would end paying a nanny to raise the kid(s), at no small expense, especially for a good one.
Nanny gonna cost you a lot less than a lifetime of alimony. =)
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Wellmer and Puma’s : Babies R’ US
Well I guess they already trademarked the last part. 😦
But seriously, we can also provide 24/7 nannies to our customers after they get their baby delivery. Some nice Mexican ladies getting minimum wage should do the trick.
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I have no problem with a guy supporting his kids, but why don’t they make child support like WIC (Women with Infants and Children), where you can only spend the money on food for the kids?
Well, sometimes you need to spend the money on rent or clothing for the children, so I’d argue for itemization. Using a WIC/Food Stamps program will end up creating a system where women just trade the money for cash. At minimum, monthly statements tracking spending habits should be sent to the child support paying parent to show how the money is being spent, an a system of appeals for men to lobby for reduced support if it’s illustrated that the money is going to waste.
money on shoes, getting her nails done
5 inch stilettos and acrylic nails, right?
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Geez, Hope, I’d swear you’re reading the same stuff I am.
Ummm, well, you ought to go back and spend some time in the countryside. There was a scandal in Beijing when I lived there because country maids were putting babies in electric washing machines to bathe them, with tragic results as I’m sure you can imagine.
I am truly sorry you were misled by such cretins. I saw some of the propaganda at the Yuanmingyuan. Evil Westerners carrying away their treasure, etc. etc. Nothing gets the Chinese going like getting the short end of a deal, and being called savages, of course. Nothing upsets a Chinese more than plain talk.
Yes, the Middle Kingdom… Middle of what? A pile of nightsoil?
Hope, don’t be frustrated by that. Most Chinese are incapable of questioning such things. They would do better to question the composition of the lump of nutrients at the end of their kuaizi at the local restaurant.
hehe. Got you mad, didn’t I?
I actually love Chinese culture, but I also love mocking the Chinese, because I can always get a good reaction out of them.
Hey, did you ever watch that “sanguo yanyi” TV drama? I loved it. I always admired that Zhuge Liang fellow.
Here’s a memorable (translated) quote from sanguo:
I really get into Chinese poetry, and especially enjoy hearing tunes played on the pipa:
Sai Shang Qu — Tune on the north of the Great Wall
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oops, here’s Chinese music link again. It didn’t copy correctly.
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hope – how did a teenage chinese immigrant end up married to a failed ex-marine? this story gets stranger each time we get new info … but seriously, good that you’re happy…
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For a young and attractive Chinese lady men are like the petals of a cherry blossom — they fall off one by one until she discovers the rich fruit in the middle.
In the meanwhile, of course, her pot gets stirred with a stiff ladle and she lives a life of exquisite pleasure. It is very different when she must take on the role of matron, however.
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Lol. Too much.
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20th anniversary of Tiananmen Square coming up in a few weeks. Look for many repetitions of the guy-blocking-the-tank clip.
Seriously, that was the heaviest news weeked that i can recall in my lifetime. Tiananmen Square, Ayatollah dies, and Communists lose the elections in Poland, setting up the amazing fall of the Fall of Communism in Eastern Europe. All the same, like, Saturday. Off-point but it has been on my mind lately…
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I just read Reddit, Wikipedia and think about stuff on my own. I figured that my thoughts are not original though.
LOL… nah, made me laugh.
In many ways I’m very “internationalized” through the Internet and growing up around so many immigrants. I have a more America-centric viewpoint sometimes, and I admire a lot of western culture and thought.
Actually a lot of Chinese people also admire western culture, particularly classical music. Russian literature was popular, and Japanese animations and films were everywhere. And this cracks me up — my older cousin apparently has all the episodes of Gossip Girl.
Having rejected many parts of “my” culture, I’m finding that as I’m older I meet a lot of non-Chinese folks who know more about Chinese history and culture than I do. It’s a bit of an odd juxtaposition. While most people have only a generational cultural gap with their parents, the mental chasm between me and my parents is quite large.
On the subject of surrogate motherhood, I think while it is fun to joke about — on both sides of the gender divide — about being completely independent for life, never relying on anyone else, deep down there is still a strong yearning for real intimacy, bonding and trust with a solid family.
It is of course not all sunshine and roses to be living in a close family unit — I grew up in such an environment, three generations living in one household. My cousin and I, under the age of 10, would help out in the kitchen, help change the coals in the stove in the winter, shop for groceries, and walk by ourselves to school. I do marvel at how much attention and money are lavished on children in America. I thought I was spoiled.
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It’s not strange to me. Then again, I guess I am a strange person. I was a very rebellious child. I grew up on the Internet, and I met all kinds of men who seemed to not mind that a weird little precocious 15 year old girl wanted to know more about the world. This was back in the late 90s.
He is not an ex-marine, but went to the marines boot camp and left. I knew soon after meeting him in person that he was wrong for me. We fought a lot, and I did not trust him at all — looking back on it, I guess I had good reason to not. I stayed because I was a crazy little weirdo with a low self-esteem, and I thought that there was no way that I could ever find love again.
But oh, love exists. It certainly does.
Funny that. I probably would not be here had it not been for Tiananmen Square. My parents were in the U.S. then with student visas in medical school, and after that incident they were granted green cards. My mom mentioned it to me a few times in that context, but I get the feeling that she still deeply loves “her country.”
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Hope, that was the best, most insightful and intelligent post by a female I’ve ever read on this blog.
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Hah! I have never seen brattier children than the Chinese single-child policy terrors at sanyuanqiao KFC (kendeji) with their grandparents.
They would run up to me and stare me right in my face, and then run off with my corn on the cob! Shameless little punks. Everybody but me thought it was funny when they did this.
Sometimes I’d see them stop on the sidewalk, pull down their pants and take a dump (they had convenient snap-on patches on the back of their britches for just this purpose). They’d even brazenly smile as they did so. Yes, I’ll admit that even I chuckled at such cheekiness, but it isn’t so amusing when you accidentally step in these little “gifts.”
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Ah, yes. Times have changed, and I haven’t been back in over ten years. I was raised by an older generation that essentially raised kids by letting them run free. When I was growing up, I either walked or was taken places on the back of a bike. These days I hear cars are everywhere.
The guy I know was in Ghana, Africa for a 14-month stint, and he tells me that even the adult women there would pee standing up in the dirt. It’s pretty different from the sanitary-obsessed west, that’s for sure. I remember how I lived as a little kid, and if I had to live that way now there would probably be quite an adjustment period.
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Hope, I wonder, does China have informal ‘arranged marriages’?
I understand Feministx is having trouble manipulating men because her mother, and her grandmother, ect. didn’t have to learn how to date/flirt/look for a husband because they were forced into arranged marriages. Her mother and grandmother had never dated nor sought a husband, how could they teach her how to do it?
Well they couldn’t. This has spiraled a little out of control, but that’s the point of failure.
Ironically, the keenness with which she is aware of severe female oppression makes FeministX a more vocal feminist while practically making her far less harmful than the typical spoiled brat feminist. Her unconscious looks at mild wrongs and thinks ‘this isn’t that bad’ whatever her head may tell her.
Then you have LILGRL, who despite being a worse choice as a wife than FeministX, attracts many men here and leads them around by the nose. Cause her mother taught her how to date/flirt/look for a husband.
And yeah, guys, I know there is nothing better than an Attention Whore, Exhibitionist, with a liberal arts degree, and who is also a Japanese Princess/American Princess.
She could also be a feminist to. A spoiled one.
She might also play the game: Let’s You And Him Fight.
Oh. My. God. 😀
But she didn’t like say she hated men or anything so she must be a great person! Or maybe she just knows how to say what you want to hear!
Anyway, Hope, if China had a culture where women were completely, or at least severly, limited in marriage options, that could have effected you in the same way. I don’t know much about China at that time.
Or maybe the kids in your high school were just mean to the foreign girl.
I’m really curious if it’s the profound explanation or the banal explanation. Or neither. Maybe just you were young.
Well, Hope, can you make sense of my incoherent post or not?
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Wrong smiley. Smileys, line up! Where’s bug-eye?
🙂 smiley face (humour)
perplexed
:-)) laugh
(-: left handed smiley
😉 wink (light sarcasm)
😐 indifference
:-> devilish grin (heavy sarcasm)
😎 big-eyed smiley
😀 shock or surprise
😦 sad
:-C real unhappy
😛 wry smile
;-} leer
;-( crying
:-* kiss
:-X big wet kiss
:-e disappointment
:-@ scream
:-O yell
>;-> A very lewd remark was just made
:-& Tongue tied
:-{} wears lipstick
O:-) Angel smiley
:-Q Smoking smiley
:-[ Vampire smiley
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Bug-eyed smiely didn’t show up for roll-call.
Someone is being a slacker.
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You’re OK, Hope. But you’d be better if you were an art chick. The Chinese artists were really beautiful people compared to the greasy businessmen and status-mongering professionals.
You can’t blame her for that. It is not too hard to fall in love with China if you have a romantic bone in your body. I always thought China had a lot in common with France, where I lived for some time as a boy.
BTW, some of my friends were in the middle of the Tiananmen Massacre. One was a nurse who treated the wounded, and she openly told me in front of plenty of others about how awful it was. Most avoided the subject. Even I was nervous to hear about it.
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Ironically, the keenness with which she is aware of severe female oppression makes FeministX a more vocal feminist while practically making her far less harmful than the typical spoiled brat feminist. Her unconscious looks at mild wrongs and thinks ‘this isn’t that bad’ whatever her head may tell her.
Then you have LILGRL, who despite being a worse choice as a wife than FeministX, attracts many men here and leads them around by the nose. Cause her mother taught her how to date/flirt/look for a husband.
And yeah, guys, I know there is nothing better than an Attention Whore, Exhibitionist, with a liberal arts degree, and who is also a Japanese Princess/American Princess.
She could also be a feminist to. A spoiled one.
If this were a forum, this should be stickied.
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“Youth is an indication of repro health. Prettiness is not. Given the small family size people want and the possibility for fertility treatment, prettiness has zero value outside itself.”
Not true — prettiness has tremendous value as it signifies good genes. For example, if you take head shots of average people and average athletes, who do you think will look better?
Yes, prettiness signifies physical prowess, but these are somewhat correlated and IQ is not far behind, at least not genetically. I’d venture to say that prettier people are smarter. Also, it’s well know that prettier people earn more money, and have higher class. All these are tied together ofc.
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Modern feminists are THE most hypocritical group on Earth. Bar none.
Anyone who thinks a woman deserves alimony has, by definition, admitted that women are inferior. Period. It is incompatible to claim women are equal, while still thinking alimony is fair.
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Some nice Mexican ladies getting minimum wage should do the trick.
The same Mexican women that some PUAs don’t want in the country for fears of poor assimilation, low IQ and high breeding rates, elevated crime levels, and subterfuge of wages for native born working class of all races?
In that line, I always felt like I wasn’t the “Right” girl, and that he resented me a little for it.
Ah yes, the secret reason I probably won’t have sex with non-date. The fact that she isn’t the “right” girl, and that she isn’t the high IQ woman who will deliver high IQ babies with my last name that will go to an Ivy League school and make my last name immortal. If non-date were to become pregnant and not get an abortion, I’d be stuck with her and the kid for the next eighteen years of my life, and I’m afraid of how he or she would turn out given the genetic stock of the parents…
But it wasn’t the “Right” college, not the big state school he imagined.
With the exception of one semester at the engineering school, I have always commuted to college. I never really had an interest in going to dorms since there’s little privacy and comfort, and the food is questionable.
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OK, now I’m starting to see where your fetish came from. Couldn’t take your eyes off the tramps in the neighborhood when you were a boy, could you?
Don’t worry, I understand. All too well…
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The Indian firm that can give you a kid (with a donor egg) for $25,000 is good. That is the cost of having a nanny for 1 year.
Two kids for $50,000. Hire a nanny to help out = $30,000 a year. No problemo. Still cheaper than the expected value of a divorce.
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Anonymous: “As a young Catholic man who takes my faith seriously I fully intend on getting married. I’m a virgin by choice in my twenties, and not for lack of opportunities…”
Oh you mean you’re gay, like the others who hide behind Catholicism to disguse their sexuality.
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OK, now I’m starting to see where your fetish came from. Couldn’t take your eyes off the tramps in the neighborhood when you were a boy, could you?
Don’t worry, I understand. All too well…
You must admit, that while they’re not exactly the ideal for a long-term relationship or to bring home to meet mom and dad, these girls scream fuck me now in a way that their non-trashy counterparts don’t. Of course, these girls tend to be even more insistent on alphas and less cautious (and thus a STD/pregnancy risk). Mind you, there’s always been that part of me that dreams of the unlikely combination of one these girls with the intellect of Wellesley Queen, and the warm heart of another close female friend…
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Modern marriage is a disaster – parasitic feminists have bled men dry, and conservatives, with their empty sermonizing about ‘duty’ and ‘sanctity of marriage’ are such a total failure that they infuriate me almost as much as the feminists. Why do they think their sermonizing, in the face of the law, is anything more than a pea-shooter against steel?
It is quite a viable strategy for a man to :
1) Go to India, get 2 kids for $100,000 (it is not $35K per kid, Puma80, as the man has to pay for IVF + Egg Donor + Surrogacy). Still, that is cheap. Get 1 boy and 1 girl, ideally.
2) If your siblings or your parents are willing to help you take care of the kids until age 6-7, you can save money. If not, get a nanny for $25K a year, and be done with it. The nanny will be the necessary ‘motherly influence’ that the child needs.
3) All this is far cheaper than a wife, with the nagging, shopping, and divorce risk. Even if you do marry later on, since the kids were yours before marriage, she cannot take them from you, and thus cannot get child support.
4) You won’t need more than a 3 BR/2BA, 1500 sq. foot place. A townhouse can suffice.
5) Keep gaming women. Contrary to popular wisdom, I don’t think it is wrong for your kids aged 10-18 to see their father gaming multiple women. If anything, it will be necessary preparation for their own adult lives, for both your son and daughter.
There. All cheaper than a divorce.
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I forgot to add that Nanny expenses can be pre-tax, in some circumstances. It does not have to be after-tax income.
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“Not true — prettiness has tremendous value as it signifies good genes. For example, if you take head shots of average people and average athletes, who do you think will look better?
Yes, prettiness signifies physical prowess, but these are somewhat correlated and IQ is not far behind, at least not genetically. I’d venture to say that prettier people are smarter. Also, it’s well know that prettier people earn more money, and have higher class. All these are tied together ofc.”
It does not have “tremendous” value. It has very marginal value in modern society in reproductive terms. The people reproducing the most are the lowest IQ blacks in the ghettos. These people are also probably the least attractive and least healthy.
As for prettiness correlating with positive attributes, well health, success, IQ all correlate and some kinds of attractiveness probably do as well. Depends on what kind of hot- Jennifer Connolly hot is a smart type of hot. Kendra Wilkinson fake boobs, fake blond, fake tan kind of hot is a dumb kind of hot.
But hoping that a pretty woman will have other correlated attributes is never as effective as just going for a positive attribute directly. One could be like DA and pursue a woman for IQ. I think it would be logical to pursue a woman for her character directly. Even if what you want is some feminine submissive domestic traditional girl- makes more sense to pursue someone with that personality directly and not worry about looks.
But sense is out the window in the world of attraction. We all think with the wrong head on this one. Men want pretty. Women want alpha.
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Tood:
i’d rather get cuckolded, ass raped, and chewed up by leech lawyers and judges than move to india…stop advertising your abysmal sub-continent. nooody wants to move there, and curry is disgusting.
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“It is quite a viable strategy for a man to :
1) Go to India, get 2 kids for $100,000 (it is not $35K per kid, Puma80, as the man has to pay for IVF + Egg Donor + Surrogacy). Still, that is cheap. Get 1 boy and 1 girl, ideally.
2) If your siblings or your parents are willing to help you take care of the kids until age 6-7, you can save money. If not, get a nanny for $25K a year, and be done with it. The nanny will be the necessary ‘motherly influence’ that the child needs.
3) All this is far cheaper than a wife, with the nagging, shopping, and divorce risk. Even if you do marry later on, since the kids were yours before marriage, she cannot take them from you, and thus cannot get child support.
4) You won’t need more than a 3 BR/2BA, 1500 sq. foot place. A townhouse can suffice.
5) Keep gaming women. Contrary to popular wisdom, I don’t think it is wrong for your kids aged 10-18 to see their father gaming multiple women. If anything, it will be necessary preparation for their own adult lives, for both your son and daughter.
There. All cheaper than a divorce.
”
That’s still expensive. What a dude should really do is this-
1) convert to Islam
2) Do whatever the fuck you want to women and children.
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Under the Indian IVF + Donor Egg + Surrogacy plan I outlined above, if the cost of a nanny irks you, remember that you can always invite your elderly parents to come live with you. If one is dead and only one is remaining, it makes even more sense.
Nothing is perfect – not everyone wants their widowed mother with them. But if she helps watch your kid, then that is great. The generational bonding of grandparent-grandchild is also valuable.
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Chuckie the butt-fuckie wrote :
“Tood:
i’d rather get cuckolded, ass raped, and chewed up by leech lawyers and judges than move to india…stop advertising your abysmal sub-continent. nooody wants to move there, and curry is disgusting.”
You don’t have to MOVE to India, you dumbass. You just have to go there for the IVF treatment, as Puma80 suggests.
Many people DO move there, you ignorant buttshit.
Plus, we have already established that you know absolutely ZERO about the world. You are an SWPL lesser Beta, you know.
Who said you HAVE to eat curry? Do you even know what ‘curry’ is?
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CK,
Sorry, not buying your proposal; the question we’re considering is whether prettier gals are smarter, and to determine that, we’d need some objective measure to *show* they are indeed smarter to begin with, right? So, Mensa, a group known for its documented membership of high IQ, and the Ivys, schools which again are known for their high IQ students, should be excellent places to begin.
I’m suggesting to you CK, that smarts, on average, are the *last* thing on a guy’s mind when it comes to fucking, and in some cases, even longterm pair bonding. And I think you know as much as I do, that the chances of routinely running into a Beyonce’ or Prejean at Brown or Harvard or Mensa are quite small.
As for your thing about guys, its well known that for the most part, brainy guys don’t get laid. If that weren’t true, Game wouldn’t be needed-a quick visit to any bootcamp quickly reveals a gaggle of geeky guys in attendance. Although I do think he is motivated by personal factors, I also do think that Rushton is on to something when he said, it all comes down to a tradeoff-big brain, or big dick? Can’t get both.
And if female sexual selection has anything to say about it, we know who they tend to choose.
O
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Here’s something for the folks who want to go live in India:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?sid=aErNiP_V4RLc&pid=20601109
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doug:
Typical! Man gets what he wants, man leaves.
I’ve watched so many relatives just get hung up over that one man and lose their life over him, for they shall never love or be with anyone again. What’s the point? The ‘one man for me’ seems to be genetic, though, which is regrettable.
While they’re maintaining the perfect home for the grand total of lonely one, he’s out enjoying himself with chick no. 304.
maurice: We’ll be together 4-ever.
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Tarl,
Excellent post and point raised, and I too have been following the “Slumlord Millionaire” problem in India for some time now myself. It is quite serious, and there doesn’t seem to be much urgency on the part of the powers that be over there to address. Poverty is rife over there to such a degree that is unfathomable here.
As for the general discussion here, as always seems to be the case, some of my brothers are making this thing to be a lot more complicated than it needs to be. The solutions are simple:
1. LEARN GAME. For the same amount of money to buy a sixpack of beer or a few double lattes at a trendy coffehouse cafe, you can get hold of the Mystery Method and The Game, study what they have to say, apply it and have many of your problems solved. I speak from experience, although I didn’t need Game per se in order to be successful with Women. But the added and expanded perspectives I learned about Women from reading those two books did indeed make all the difference in the world.
2. Have a Plan B in case you get married or find yourself in a LTR and/or have kids w/a Woman(Women). Have a way that you can go off the grid if you need to. If you have a bit of money, how d you protect it? Same deal w/assests. A few really good posts have been entered here that goes into some of the nuts and bolts along those lines, take and save them on your PC just in case.
3. Don’t get married. Let’s be honest, both marriage, and by extension, fatherhood, are purely optional now. If one is brutally honest about things, they’ll admit this. And if they’re really brave, they’ll admit that both are huge risks for Men in our time. Unless you have some way of vouchsafing these things, its best to avoid them if possible. If you have kids w/a Woman, make sure your paper is protected.
But perhaps the only real safeguard you have out there is Game. It really makes the difference between the guys who make out alright and do well, and those who get chumped in life. For such a small price, why wouldn’t you learn it? And I don’t mean being the next Mystery here, I mean just having moderate skills. Keeping a Woman deeply, hopelessly in love w/you, pledging herself to you and meeting her needs for a MAN in her life is probably the best line of defence against a lot of what we see.
All the other stuff I’m hearing, surrogate moms, etc, is almost as bad, moneywise, as getting married then divorced, lol. For what, $30, if that, you can learn some essential truths about yourself and Women, and live a much happier life.
O
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If what you want is not to be responsible for supporting women and to not have to treat them differently from men, then Islam’s not for you. Tood, treating them differently does not mean saying they’re inferior (much like a silly argument about whose job needs more skills or is more worthy: the doctor or the teacher, when they have different roles and compensations but they are both respected and needed) but it’s also true that it does not fit at all and is hypocriticial regarding the principles of an equalist climate.
Also, regarding the ‘that won’t happen to you if you like betas’ argument for chick no. 304, yes it would. It would just be Gigabyte 304 in DA’s case. How much is under our control, and how much is luck?
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Okay, he gets Alpha of the Month…and then he gets a hearty “Here’s Your Sign!” for coming back.
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I know a couple that was worth about $400k and she went totally nutzo on him after he started banging a co-worker. She got a lawyer to “get every penny” and she was so proud of the vengeful “justice” that she was going to get by uncovering his affair – he also looked at titties on the web. In the state they reside, fiances are (initial) custodial are often mixed in the same agreement so it got legally complex. After the legal and taxes, he ended up netting about $100k and she’s under collection (she bought an expensive car in anticipation of getting a bunch of money) and now has to declare bankrupcy. They both probably could have walked away with $180k her and her lawyer weren’t ass-hats. So her lawyer walked away with ~$150k while costing her $180k and costing him $80k. What’s worse is that even with child support, she can’t support the kids and they all live in a studio apartment when it’s her turn to have the kids. He’s now trying to get her joint physical custody revoked until the kids have a bed to sleep on.
After discovering the affair the better solution would be for this vapid cow cunt to step up efforts to eat his cum. She could have gotten implants to sooth his titty fetish (which is quite normal). And she could accept and encourage the primal polygamist urges that all high-status men have by understanding that he will have sex with any other hot woman that he can find unless she happens to have drained his balls that day. She’d still be in house and her kids would be happy.
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Wakey Wakey
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FemX,
Glad to see you back, and will take up your response in the next post. For now though I wanted you to know that I aw your most recent post on your blog and decided to follow the link over to Science Blogs to see for myself what was going on; I was appalled, to put it mildly. I tried posting my comments and for some reason wouldn’t go thru, same deal w/your site. So, since I know you frequent this venue, attached are my would-be comments to SB:
“I’m coming a bit late to the dance, but it seems to me that FemX’s points, however crude, are largely accurate-Aboriginal Women aren’t particularly physically attractive. Now, does that mean that they are evil or somehow less than human, etc? Absolutely not. But it IS to say, that they aren’t pretty. Sorry, but such is life, errbody can’t be pretty.
I know FemX and consider her to be a bit out to lunch on a number of things, but on this I feel compelled to come to her defence-and for the record I’m Black (Male), and have had some actually interesting words w/FemX about Black-Indian racial issues wrt her mating choices. A very nice exchange, in fact.
Aside from the seeming inability/refusal to accept objective evidence, particularly in a venue that purports scientific inquiry, I must also add that I am somewhat taken aback by the sheer kneejerky response by many of the obstensibly feminist voices here-last time I heard, people had the right to voice their opinions, however crude or even offensive we may personally find them to be. As many of you consider yourselves academics and scientists, ask yourself, which is better-fostering open dialogue w/an eye toward helping our opponents seeing the error of their ways, or banishing them and curtailing all discussion? For me, the answer to said question is obvious-one is clearly a hallmark of the Academy-the other the hallmark of Anti-Intellectual write large.
The Obsidian”
More in a minute…
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Obs, certain comments get moderated on sciencewoman’s site. I am not sure why but on my site, there shouldn’t be a problem although sometimes it takes more than one try to post a comment.
I want to make sure others don’t have this problem. What happens when you try to post a comment on my site?
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Bhetti
Did you like song by The Stranglers? Had you heard it before (I am guessing the Punk era had passed before you hit your teens)?
Have you watched Life on Mars of the sort-of-sequel Ashes to Ashes? Both feature music from their respective eras (1970s and 1980s).
If you have seen either, isn’t Gene Hunt the ultimate Alpha?
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Hope
Thanks for the interesting posts. I have not much to say except that can sort-of identify with the misfit rebel child thing.
Your more recent posts seem more thoughtful and less poetic than some of the earlier ones I have seen. Does that mean that the new man is getting the benefit of your romantic/poetic side, while we get your thoughtful side?
[I have no problems with that, by the way]
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“It occurs to me that a great deal of the HBD debates/issues are in many ways clever proxies for other issues-scapegoats-for why Whites encounter many of the problems they do. I’ve discussed some of them before, and will be happy to do so again if you’re so inclined.”
I’d love to hear it, please.
HBD blogs are sometimes an excuse to promote racism, sometimes an excuse to promote incredibly strange theories as though they are based in science (ala whiskey), often an excuse for high IQ people to ‘prove’ that society is wrong to undervalue them. The best HBD blogs are the ones that get the least traffic. They are just blogs with data on them.
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FemX,
I’m not surprised in the least to hear that Sciencewoman is a site that moderates its posts. Seems to go w/the territory w/Feminism, which I consider to be largely anti-intellectual, I might add. And I should hope that you never pickup the habit of moderating posts.
When it comes to your site, I’ve noticed that in general, Blogger doesn’t seem to like the interface my computer is using. So, until I get around to getting a new one, I guess I won’t be posting on any such hosted blog.
O
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my question has always been-if so and so is so smart, why can’t they get laid? It seems to me, THAT is the problem, not Joe 80 and Sally 83 making whoopee.
It’s not about getting laid as much as letting pregnancy happen.
Myself, being 100+ in IQ — and having banged a decent number of girls in my single days, all of whom were 100+ IQ — I always took the procaution of either taking a girls’ word that she’s on a pill, or pulling out. (I was never a rubber-man)
In other words, no unplanned pregnancies for me, guys like me, and the girls we banged, all of whom were of similar profile. Though I had two of “I’m late” scares.
On the other hand, if I were an 80 IQ guy, the girls I’d have been banging would also have been around the same level of intelligence. Except that those girls would not have been on a pill, and I wouldn’t have bothered to pull out, strap one on, or ask them if they’re on the pill.
Obsidian — is the above question a taunt along the lines of “why can’t you white guys get Amy and Courtney to open their legs for you?”
If so, I’ll turn that around. You are clearly a very intellignet guy. And you have no children. So why aren’t you getting the Sistahs to open their legs for you?
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FemX,
Wrt HBD: let’s take the whole Black-White IQ difference deal. As you well know, a heck of a lot of handwringing is given to this issue, but what you never actually hear is, “now what?”. In other words, OK, let’s say that all that is true, Black folks simply ain’t as bright as Whites-well, what do we do about it? I mean, you’re talking about a USA population of some 40 million Black folks. What is to be done with them?
Well, to let the vast majority of HBD boosters, *nothing*-it seems their whole reasoning for boosting for HBD in the first place is to get rid of all those Darkies who are taking White folks rightful spots in colleges, job contracts, etc.
W/the notable exception of Sailer, and perhaps to an extent Murray, no one else seems to give a damn about the *real* public policy implications about their HBD positions in this regard.
This is important, because per Sailer, whether they like it or not, Black folks are American citizens, and as such have a right to be looked out for, *particularly* if they have an innate inability to do so. But for many HBDers, like say, Brand, Black folk aren’t Americans, and never will be. Kinda reminds me of how France does its Black folk, and to a lesser extent, the UK.
And they then have the nerve to say that folk like me are “obsessed” by Race? Huh?!?
I see the HBD thing in this regard as something of a sham, since anyone w/half a brain (which would include most Black folk, right?) can easily see that the biggest beneficiaries of AA were and ARE, White Women. Ahh, but HBDers ain’t too keen to deal with that one don’t you know, and after what happened to Summers, can you blame em? Besides, these folk, these White Women, well, they family, and the HBDers are trying to get laid. So, we’ll all do the wink and nod thing, actually believing the lie that Leroy and Rashid are taking all of Brett and Josh’s jobs and college slots, instead of Amy and Heather.
That’s what I mean, FemX.
Holla back, and we’ll talk more.
O
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PA
my question has always been-if so and so is so smart, why can’t they get laid? It seems to me, THAT is the problem, not Joe 80 and Sally 83 making whoopee.
It’s not about getting laid as much as letting pregnancy happen.
Myself, being 100+ in IQ — and having banged a decent number of girls in my single days, all of whom were 100+ IQ — I always took the procaution of either taking a girls’ word that she’s on a pill, or pulling out. (I was never a rubber-man)
In other words, no unplanned pregnancies for me, guys like me, and the girls we banged, all of whom were of similar profile. Though I had two of “I’m late” scares.
On the other hand, if I were an 80 IQ guy, the girls I’d have been banging would also have been around the same level of intelligence. Except that those girls would not have been on a pill, and I wouldn’t have bothered to pull out, strap one on, or ask them if they’re on the pill.
Obsidian — is the above question a taunt along the lines of “why can’t you white guys get Amy and Courtney to open their legs for you?”
If so, I’ll turn that around. You are clearly a very intellignet guy. And you have no children. So why aren’t you getting the Sistahs to open their legs for you?
So you banged a lot of 100+ IQ girls in the food rationing lines back in Poland? Did any broads bang you if you gave them a loaf of bread?
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Pidgeon – funny guy. Most of the girls I slept with were American, being that I came to the US in my teens.
As I remember the Martial Law in Poland, everyone had loaves of bread and more. It’s just that you didn’t get it at a store, but from relatives out in the country — something everyone had — and off the black market.
As long as you didn’t get stopped at a military checkpoint, or if you were, you could talk/bribe your way out of it, you ate like a king. Good times.
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Obs,
I have heard a lot of impossible policies advocated based on the idea that there are race-IQ differences that are innate and immutable.
This is what I wrote about it-
http://feministx.blogspot.com/2009/05/if-iq-genes-vary-in-frequency-across.html
Like Steve Sailer, I believe we should strive for colorblind policies in everything.
In educational terms though, blacks and hispanics are the chief recipient of AA, not women.
The thing about HBD is that people pick their poison- non asian minorities or women. Old school racism partially sought support on the grounds that blacks could be violent and lustful towards the white women if whites quit keeping the blacks at bay through segregation. Racists wanted to feel they were protecting their innocent lovely white girls from rape. I think this is why so many HBD advocates are not sexist. In fact they are rather sympathetic to victimology feminism- the idea that women are raped and abused right and left.
On this site, we see people that seem to believe in HBD but dislike women more than minorities, so they express beliefs about bringing back patriarchy or forcing women into monogamous relationships, ending sexual freedom etc.
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Pidgeon,
Hello, I don’t believe we’ve ever met. Thanks for the response.
To answer, first off, the argument about the right/wrong people mating/having/making babies was never my argument to make. So in many ways, what I do or don’t do is irrelevant, and as this is a venue devoted to Game, you’ll please note the very conspicuous absence of Brothas in attendance at bootcamps and the like. Believe me, we don’t have any problem at all getting Rashidah and Shaniqua to bend over, crack a smile, and go half on a baby with us. 😉
So, it comes back to my original question, as those bootcamps clearly underscore-WHY CAN’T THE SMART GUYS GET LAID? And as you made the distinction between pregnancy and sex, which is correct, let’s put the onus on the latter then, shall we? If the Game bootcamps, and what we know about HBD studies are any indication, the answer should be clear-because Women, who barring rape decides who gets some and who doesn’t, have pretty much decided that a Man with an IQ past a certain point aint really that hot. And, we can pretty much say the same thing on the Male side, too-I wonder how much action the female Brown or Cornell Valedictorians were getting from the fellas, or were the cheerleaders getting it? To ask the question is to ask it.
So again, the focus is in the wrong direction, seems to me, and to be honest, one can detect just a weebit of hateration too in the voices of those who scream the loudest on this issue-they need to figure out why they can’t get no action and fix it fast. Pussy starved Men do weird things, especially when they’re pretty bright.
Lastly, I want to address your assumption about supposedly lower IQ folk. There’s a very good book Promises I Can’t Keep, you need to read that book. Its about low income (and thus, one could argue, low IQ) Black, White and Hispanic Women from parts of Philly and Camden, who chose-CHOSE-to have babies, in spite of all the challenges they faced. The idea that some folk are just too stupid to know what the pill is or how condoms work is a silly one in itself. Many Women want to make babies, and many Men want to give em babies. Now, you can argue the rightness or wrongness of those decisions till you’re blue in the face, but it doesn’t change the fact that, A, they knew exactly what they were doing, and B, smart guys still can’t get laid.
To say nothing about replicating themselves.
Something the Obsidian has no trouble doing. Trust me.
Your serve…
O
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Racists wanted to feel they were protecting their innocent lovely white girls from rape
Surely you as a feminist can address the concept of protecting women from rape in a less mocking language.
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CORRECTION: my post should have been addressed to PA, not Pidgeon. My bad, man.
FemX,
W/all due respect I have to disagree; the Hispanic presence on American campuses is near zero, and there are clearly more White Women than Black folk. I stand by what I said, White Women get over on the strength of AA than ANYONE ELSE, and lots of White guys know this, its just like I said, its a family, read, Race thing, and, its a pussy thing. I can dig it, but then we need to call it for what it is, because though we Darkies may not be Mensas, we aint too slow on the uptake either.
I’ll checkout your link in a sec…
O
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Pidgeon + Obsidian,
Obsidian is so right about why welfare class girls want to have babies. It makes them important. They matter.
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“Surely you as a feminist can address the concept of protecting women from rape in a less mocking language.”
I feel no feminist obligation to show respect to racist motivations for rape protection. It isn’t about women for them. It’s about some homoerotic male fantasy about virile powerful blacks and their effects on fragile white women.
“all due respect I have to disagree; the Hispanic presence on American campuses is near zero, and there are clearly more White Women than Black folk. I stand by what I said, White Women get over on the strength of AA than ANYONE ELSE, and lots of White guys know this, its just like I said, its a family, read, Race thing, and, its a pussy thing. I can dig it, but then we need to call it for what it is, because though we Darkies may not be Mensas, we aint too slow on the uptake either.”
Women in most colleges, graduate schools and professional schools have about the same GPA and standardized test scores as their male peers. They are not there because of AA unless it is a highly quantitative field.
But your response shows again that people tend to choose between minorities and women. This contrasts the typical liberal assumption that liberals are both non racist and non sexist while conservatives are racist and sexist. You say women are the most privileged by AA. Some others would say blacks are. Some have even said that Obama lets sexism in his administration slide because he feels that feminists steal the thunder of the real oppressed group- blacks.
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Tood –
You are right that the (ivf+surrigacy+egg+travel/adoption) costs will run up to about $50,000 total for having a child. That is still lower than the cost of your average middle class marriage package including courting+engagement ring+wedding+honeymoon.
This cost assumes you’ve selected the egg from some high-end outfit like this:
http://www.beverlyhillseggdonation.com/?gclid=CIvO1beewZoCFRINDQodzy4lrA
I believe you can get some celebrity/olympian grade egg for $10,000. They will ice-pack ship it to your Indian IVF+Surrigate company for you.
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FemX,
Assuming what you said wrt Obama is correct, the historical record is on his side-Blacks trump anything Women can come up with in terms of being oppressed. It should go without saying at this point.
As for GPAs and the like-youre recent treatment at the hands of your “sisters” over at Sciencewoman says it all. These are Women who do not belong in those spots, because they clearly lack the wherewithall to do the work. They can’t even take a blog comment, made by a another Woman, w/o going off the deepend-just like the Women who were in attendance at Summer’s talk. They may get the GPA scores, but as we both know, it takes a bit more to have the kinds of fitness to do certain kinds of work, especially of the hard sciences type. When it comes to that Hispanics are a ghost and Black folks are a real rarity. So that only leaves White Women, who again catch an AA break.
And don’t even get me started on Title IX, or on the job stuff too, like I said, most Whites have more to fear in losing their job or promotion to Amy or Heather, that Leroy or Rashid.
And I stand by that.
O
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Jerrdogg
Well said. Which is why it’s important early on in a relationship to let the girl know your plans to fuck around a bit. Sometimes that concept has to be broached slowly. My current GF at first was freaked by the idea, but now accepts it. I started by telling her that I would “travel”, and made it clear that travel was a euphemism for travel and find girls. Three weeks after meeting her she’s no so in love as to agree that we can get a 2nd girl live in, and also wouldn’t raise any fuss if I occasionally rented hotel rooms for variety action. And of course my other GF, given no option at all, has accepted my “travelling”.
Lay the rules early. Girls will muss and fuss, and even bring things to a critical point. But they rarely actually leave if you stand your ground. And can fuck like a demon.
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Anony,
Yup, you nailed it. And, you ever notice how, when someone asks why the brainy guys can’t get laid, all manner of changing the subject happens? Fascinating.
O
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My submission for alpha of the month. He’s looking really hot but also unreliable, responding in a 4:1 ratio. Will have to wait for him to grow out of it but no doubts he’ll eventually take over the world.
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Bhetti–
Oh Bhetti, Bhetti.
Such a needy, hungry girl.
You can’t escape me now. It is too late.
A man has things to do, and places to go, at certain times, ya know, ya know?
What will I do with you, my fasting torrid one?
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Thursday:
This is where you go off the rails. She has forgone opportunities and given the man a benefit (children) at his behest and needs to be compensated. Basic justice.
nova:
But NOT if she cheats or leaves unilaterally.
Well, of COURSE not! Has anyone here argued that a cheating woman/one who bails on the marriage whimsically (or for financial gain) should be compensated? If so, I haven’t seen it.
Do what you like to the cheaters, but you can’t lump the women who have been good wives in with them. Women who have foregone opportunities in order to make husband and family their full-time job for 18 years have to have some recourse if the husband up and leaves when the kids are grown. In that situation, she has honored her side of the bargain but is getting shafted anyway.
I realize the situation I’m describing is not the case in the majority of divorces, is less the case than it used to be, and will probably become an even smaller minority. But there still has to be some concession made for them, as Kamal S. suggested in a previous thread, and Thursday is suggesting in this one.
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Bhetti
That Woflram guy (your Alpha of the month) does not know anything about “pickup” or “PUA.” More like a typical beta geek.
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“If men had sense, they’d game a rich girl and marry for wealth and status.”
The Contours were onto this over 40 years ago:
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“””””””””””””””””””I realize the situation I’m describing is not the case in the majority of divorces, is less the case than it used to be, and will probably become an even smaller minority. But there still has to be some concession made for them, as Kamal S. suggested in a previous thread, and Thursday is suggesting in this one.”””””””””””””””””””””””
Ok if they worked at the marriage for 30 years and where never late with the bj’s they get 24 weeks severance.
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Obsidian
I really don’t think you’re as dumb as you sometimes sound Obsidian.
As you know I think it’s completely wrong that women got any affirmative action at all. However the only reason they did and do was in cultural Marxist mimickry of blacks getting it, for which there were much better arguments.
Women of all colors being far more numerous in America than black men, did numerically become far more broadly represented in places of high achievement in American society than blacks, particularly black men.
Numbers were part of the reason for that. Brains, particularly those of the numerous white women, but also increasingly Asian women who for cultural reasons were a little slower on the uptake, were the other reason. Relative brains.
BTW, you’ll find that as a general but widespread matter, Indian Americans tend to be VERY IQ focused, and not really very interested in maintaining more than the thinest veneer of political correctness with respect to African Americans. They certainly tend to have neither the slightest bit of guilt in shoving them aside or ignoring them, nor of noblesse oblige. I suspect over time more will learn to affect the later, in imitation of liberal whites.
For whom as you know it very much is an affectation, in most cases. Still, fools do abound.
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maurice
I know, right?
It becomes more and more apparent and blatant.
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I don’t think this guy should be alpha of the month. He lost any possible claim to that status when he was arrested because he came out of hiding “to attend a WEDDING”.
Come out of hiding to see a dying relative. Ok.
Come out of hiding to break a friend out of jail. Ok.
Come out of hiding to attend a wedding. No.
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““I am simply not a lesbian and there has never been any evidence to suggest I am.”
Wow – doug was right. your persona is evolving faster than tadpoles at Chernobyl.”
Sheer idiocy. I have always maintained that I am bisexual and queer identified. Doug arbitrarily decided that I was a lesbian and keeps posting this again and again and others sheepishly believe that this is how I once presented myself or that there was ever any reason to believe this.
Maurice, really, where is this evidence that shows I am a lesbian?
There is no evolution of my personality here. There is only the evolution of doug and his sudden change from falsely seeing me as an interesting lipstick lesbian to a manhating angry lesbian.
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“It becomes more and more apparent and blatant.”
Keep lying to yourself. Anyways, some on my blog would like to know the source of your emotional hatred towards me-
http://feministx.blogspot.com/2009/05/guess-ill-go-eat-worms.html
If you keep repeating the same lie enough times…
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Fem you orig said you could have vaginal orgasm then changed to you can have it all the time with certain people. That is quite a change. I mean that was your first challenge that was thrown out to try to find that alpha who could break you in right.
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should have been could not.
Then you said you hate men, there where quite some comments at beginning for major shock value 🙂
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“Fem you orig said you could have vaginal orgasm then changed to you can have it all the time with certain people. That is quite a change. I mean that was your first challenge that was thrown out to try to find that alpha who could break you in right.”
I never ever said I could not have a vaginal orgasm. I never even implied that.
Here’s how it goes- I have had perhaps 5 times as many female sexual partners as males. I have a strong preference for women in general. I do not enjoy sex with men unless they are very sexually dominant and preferably alpha outside the bedroom as well. But I can have orgasms every time during sex for the right dominant male partner.
“Then you said you hate men, there where quite some comments at beginning for major shock value”
Bhetti seems to understand that when I say these things, I am just jokingly going along with what other posters say.
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then instead of just femist you added the blogspot crap lol so obviously see through desperation.
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@FemX – um, that you said that you were? that’s it’s all over your posts here and your blog posts?
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“”””””seems to understand that when I say these things, I am just jokingly going along with what other posters say.”””””””””
No when you first came on here you said you hate men.
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feminstx–
Don’t you see now, finally, how much more it would profit you to seduce me, rather than attempt clumsily to bludgeon me?
Silly harridan.
That isn’t in your repertoire though, is it?
(You’ve lately admitted as much, that you can’t flirt with men, but I suppose you’ll deny or try to disappear that also.)
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Ok if they worked at the marriage for 30 years and where never late with the bj’s they get 24 weeks severance.
I’ll assume you’re merely being flippant with this, gregi.
If you’re concerned about men’s earning power/emotional investment being compromised by cuckolding, you should be equally concerned about women whose earning power/emotional investment is compromised in the process of being the kind of full-time wife & mother many of the commenters on this board claim to want.
Both are the result of one partner pulling a dishonorable bait-and-switch on the other.
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“@FemX – um, that you said that you were? that’s it’s all over your posts here and your blog posts?
”
Where Maurice? Where is it? My blog profile has said the same thing since I made it- queer identified bisexual.
Sometimes I will categorize myself as lesbian because I do prefer women and tend to date them more often, but I have never said I was 100% lesbian. Never even implied it.
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“Don’t you see now, finally, how much more it would profit you to seduce me, rather than attempt clumsily to bludgeon me?
Silly harridan.
That isn’t in your repertoire though, is it?”
Doug, I apologize, I save my flirtation capacity for a man who I hope will be my husband. You are out of my age range and you seem to live far away, so I cannot give myself to you in reality or in my words.
I wish to belong to one man only.
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feministx–
Since you need all the help in this flirting with men department you can get, I wasn’t really flirting with you.
I was just making a point.
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“””””””””””””””””””Marcus Aureliette
Ok if they worked at the marriage for 30 years and where never late with the bj’s they get 24 weeks severance.
I’ll assume you’re merely being flippant with this, gregi.
If you’re concerned about men’s earning power/emotional investment being compromised by cuckolding, you should be equally concerned about women whose earning power/emotional investment is compromised in the process of being the kind of full-time wife & mother many of the commenters on this board claim to want.
Both are the result of one partner pulling a dishonorable bait-and-switch on the other.””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Flippant thats real life for a man. That was my uncle always showed up to work. In the end got 24 weeks severance.
Bitches need to man up.
My womans sister had a baby. The guy ran out of money after they got married and she bought some shit. He still sends what he can but he doesn’t make much. So now she has to work in saudi and send money back so her kid can live. This is life this is the freedom to make a bad choice. She is a responsible woman. Takes responsibility for her actions. Nothing else she can do. The state doesn’t give you a free ride just because you popped out a kid. The state doesn’t force a man to support you when you pop out kid with the wrong guy.
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I don’t think the state should be involved in any way between peoples relationships.
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Obsidian
Game is the opposite of being a man (and PUAs don’t understand anything about what it is to be a man), and if you have to use game in order to keep your woman she doesn’t really love you. But since the world of game is just a big hall of mirrors, I’m sure it makes no difference to you.
JerrDog
Yet more proof of the fact that PUAs are fundamentally immoral and unethical, and such spoiled little brats that they want to have everything both ways. They want to enter a monogamous relationship and still sleep around, and if the wife finds out she should just shut the fuck up and swallow more cum. Of course, if the wife cheats then she’s clearly a horrible cunt, because only men have the right to cheat.
If you can’t stand being monogamous, don’t get married you fucking imbeciles.
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My grandparents’ marriage was arranged by the Communist party. They were both high-ranking officers of the party. Yes, women were also officers. Even in the 1950s there was widespread female particpiation in the workforce there.
Nor do I, except by conjecture. My parents met while they were both in medical school. My mother was beautiful, extremely shy and certainly not flirtatious, and so only men who came onto her aggressively — my father, for instance — became part of her life. In some ways my life mirrors that, because the men that I’d been with (until now) were often less than savory characters.
This quote by feministx pretty accurately describes me. I don’t flirt. I smile at people, and I’m friendly enough, but I usually give off massive prude vibes in real life. More than once people who have met me described me as a goodie-goodie.
There were plenty of immigrants at my school, and more than a few Asian girls. I had boyfriends, and I was not completely clueless. But tragically, just like my mom, I had a real romantic streak. Instead of “practical” considerations like the wealth and status of my boyfriends, I was more concerned with what I thought was “love.”
My mom told me later that she specifically sent me to a private high school and private, top-ranked university so that I could meet guys from rich families. I instead chose a nerdy, plump and poor white guy who didn’t graduate college, smoked pot and drank a lot. His mom was a crack addict, and his ex-girlfriends were trailer trash. I thought then, in my infinite 15-year-old wisdom, that I had found a great man.
Now, at 25, I know better…I think. 😉 Earlier this year I wrote a list of the top ten traits I wanted in a man. After meeting him and falling in love in short order, I realized that he had matched them all, and then had traits that I never dreamed of because I’d simply never known a man to possess such amazingness.
He is intelligent, eloquent, confident, kind, enlightened, dominant but gentle, and most of all honest, open and communicative. He is a great leader, plays the acoustic guitar like a pro, is visually artistic and talented, and skilled in advanced mathematics. He has a lot of outdoor / camping / mountain climbing experience, and has survived through conditions that would have broken many others. Even though this was once unimportant to me, it is also nice to know that he comes from a good family.
He knows about “game” and acting like an asshole to “attract and keep” a woman, but he rejects it because it’s simply not him. Frankly, he doesn’t need game whatsoever. He embodies game. If someone had told me that such a man exists, before I’d actually met him, I would have scoffed. But oh, he does, and he is everything he says he is. And I am continuously in awe and grateful to have met him.
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Congrats hope on meeting a gunslinger he he he.
I give you props on listening and trying to make it with the first one.
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Contrarian, you are wrong. You are a troll.
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feministx
I do believe that at this point, perhaps for the first time, you’ve decided you WANT to be bisexual.
One of the few things of a self revealing nature of yours that I do take at largely face value is that you are now very much looking for a husband.
In your feminist lesbian arrogance and sense of rightful privilege against all that theorized male oppression that you yourself have not experienced (but instead the opposite), you have no moral qualms at all about passing yourself off as bisexual or at times as really hetero, if only a sexually dominant in a thrillingly sadistic sort of way even alpha, will knock down your hypergamous lesbian door. (Yeah right.)
Deceiving your future husband at a fundamental level is something you worry about not at all. You’ll take the divorce theft with open arms if it doesn’t work out.
Hey, then the problem would obviously be that he wasn’t alpha enough, or in fact was really beta. Couldn’t be that feministx is really thoroughly lesbian and that the hypergamy theory is bunk with respect to wired that way lesbians like her.
Bunk, or anyway why would an almost entirely lesbian (at best) man hater like herself deserve an alpha anyway? Especially when her recent more candid and not studio poised and partial face pics reveal her as a 5 or 6 at best (for those into that ethnic look).
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To be fair, nice (if very short at 5′) bod though.
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The face pictures on feministrix’s site kill the fantasy, however, that she is some drop dead gorgeous woman who just happens to be a dyke.
Her face is 5-6, and her upper body seems chubby. I think those shots of her legs aren’t hers at all.
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Hey Sara,
That bit of pop culture psych? Yeah, saw it on CSI, too. Worthless crap.
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Hope–
Lord. I had no idea he was anything like that. You sure did cover for him well. Too well. The pot smoking and previously drank too much parts came through on the board. That’s about it. Oh and his spending too much, which you’d gotten under control by example, you said.
Great. But. How much less into you is he? You sound way way in. The way you describe him makes that sound great, if. If you can pull him in.
Also, for your own good, step back and switch to less rose tinted lenses. Fall hard in love, as Hope can do, if it’s going forward, sure. Well not sure. It’s great that you do that.
As an exercise, what’s wrong with him?
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Marcus Arureliette–
So then she shouldn’t be those things if for her it’s too big a sacrifice.
Her life, her opportunities (commensurate with her abilities, effort, and umph), her choices, and her responsibility for those choices.
Women are full adults now with full agency, remember?
What man can require a woman to be a full time mom these days?
Actually being a mom of two kids isn’f full time or anything close these days. Full time school age moms are living the life of country squires, full of leisure and ease.
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First of all, its very easy to get a gal to wear nails and high heels, any Woman can do that, and trust me when I tell you
While this is all anecdotal, while the Mistress loved the idea of getting her nails done for me and wearing heels, another girl became mentally sick at the idea, and obviously Wellesley Queen thought I was a weird pervert.
Some of thee most Plain Jane types out there wil literally rock your world, and some of the most slutty types wind up being dead fucks.
Of course, many men have stated similar sentiments, but my problem is that if she looks like a Plain Jane, then I won’t find her sexually attractive in the first place, hence the need for visual sexually attributes like high heels, slutty clothing, and make up along with the nails to create an aura of sexuality. As I’ll note in a future blog post, these girls may be pretty or beautiful, but without the makeup and other physical enhancements, I just can’t see these girls in a sexual context. Even fantasizing about having sex with them creates weird feeling that it’s not right. Not in a moral concept, but that it would look awful.
Speaking of which, just how do you propose to land this super hot, high IQ Woman who will bear your kids who will go on to be trailblazers of success?
I’m well aware of that the fact I am unlikely to ever find this hot, high IQ woman. I have no master plan on securing this type of female.
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I should also note that the Mistress stopped sporting acrylic nails due to cost and health concerns, as the acrylic nails were eating away at her natural nails. It’s the same reason why non-date doesn’t have acrylics, and non-date like many other women seem to find high heels to be uncomfortable, and fear becoming like their mothers, women in their 50s and 60s with foot pain…
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“One of the few things of a self revealing nature of yours that I do take at largely face value is that you are now very much looking for a husband.
In your feminist lesbian arrogance and sense of rightful privilege against all that theorized male oppression that you yourself have not experienced (but instead the opposite), you have no moral qualms at all about passing yourself off as bisexual or at times as really hetero, if only a sexually dominant in a thrillingly sadistic sort of way even alpha, will knock down your hypergamous lesbian door. (Yeah right.)
Deceiving your future husband at a fundamental level is something you worry about not at all. You’ll take the divorce theft with open arms if it doesn’t work out.
Hey, then the problem would obviously be that he wasn’t alpha enough, or in fact was really beta. Couldn’t be that feministx is really thoroughly lesbian and that the hypergamy theory is bunk with respect to wired that way lesbians like her.
Bunk, or anyway why would an almost entirely lesbian (at best) man hater like herself deserve an alpha anyway? Especially when her recent more candid and not studio poised and partial face pics reveal her as a 5 or 6 at best (for those into that ethnic look).”
Shall I invest in plastic surgery? I was considering a nose job. After seeing what ps did for holly madison (face went from 5 to 10), I think there may be real utility in some operations.
But so far, I do not feel that I have experienced a discrepancy between the men I want to date and the men I can date. Certainly some men reject me, but thus far my problem in dating has been poor choices of my own rather than inability to snag a good mate. I suppose a few men that I would have wanted to date have walked away from me, but I don’t believe it was my appearance that made them do so (though obviously if I looked like Heidi Klum i could have kept them).
“The face pictures on feministrix’s site kill the fantasy, however, that she is some drop dead gorgeous woman who just happens to be a dyke.”
Azzif this was my idea. I’m just a kinda cute gal with a wacky HBD blog.
“Her face is 5-6, and her upper body seems chubby. I think those shots of her legs aren’t hers at all.”
The pics are all mine. Please. And I am apple shaped but too low weight to be chubby. IRL a guy I date might be nearly twice my weight, so I just look overall very small.
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lurker
It has been demonstrated that you are a troll (and you are trolling right now), but you have not demonstrated that I am a troll. Where is your proof?
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feministx
You want to know something?
When you come off like this, I feel bad about picking on you. That’s not saying I feel sorry for you. You just don’t seem so nasty. You’re being honest here and aren’t fronting.
You can take brassy and arrogant too far you know, particularly if you want to appeal to men, even alpha men.
You’re a smart girl that thinks outside the box. I said that to begin with and I’ll say it again. 6 is more like what you are. Nose job for enhanced white guy appeal (since you lean that way) might not be a bad idea since you’re not at all adverse to that sort of thing, seem to come from a family with money, and so on. Screw the purists about plastic surgery.
I’d lose just about all my hostility towards you if you’d TRY sex with men that felt hot to you. You’re not at all a virgin so why not? Try and be honest.
If you remain lesbian in your urges there are honest, non exploitative arrangements that might work. An open marriage with rules for example, where you both sometimes took female lovers, but cared about maintaining marital affection and a kind of love, and commitment to the kids.
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Contrarian, you are wrong. You are wrong.
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feministrix the rug-muncher
“Azzif this was my idea.”
—right. You post a bunch of professional pics, claim you can get both hot men and hot women, but you never meant to imply hotness.
“I’m just a kinda cute gal”
—try plain jane.
“The pics are all mine.”
–top and bottom do not match.
“And I am apple shaped but too low weight to be chubby.”
–not from the head shots.
Apple shaped=not girl with leg shots.
“IRL a guy I date might be nearly twice my weight, so I just look overall very small.”
–you don’t date men, d y k e.
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Regarding Femx’s looks and Doug’s comments about them. I think Frank Zappa had it right when he once sung that the ugliest part of your body is your mind (in “What’s the Ugliest Part of Your Body”).
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Anyone who spends much time around actual lesbian couples will notice that they beat on each other a lot. Break-ups never seem to happen without black eyes, chipped teeth and restraining orders. Normal, everyday life for them is not much different, either. Maybe I exaggerate but only by degree.
OK, but what is going on here? We can only guess because they are not going to tell us. At least, anything that is true.
But violence is alpha and it does wet their pussies. And consider how terrified any modern guy is of using it. But not females. Abuse shelters actively suppress the issue of dyke on dyke violence. PC works to cover-up and enable it, IOWs.
Maybe, just maybe, they are trying to supply their own large need for alpha-ness by growing it for themselves.
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omfg just read the link that femins little blog post linked too and I got to say wtf.
They where all over the white man in the thread beating him down. On a feminist blog from some engineer chic from purdue. Then Obsidian steps in and totally fucking owns this bitch by saying he is a black man and all the sudden it was like everything he said in his post was truth. This fem bitch went on total defense and backtracked every fucking thing she was saying.
Nice job obsid.
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You want to fight with a feminist be black they have to asskiss you shit funny.
Moral don’t be white in the us.
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I agree. There is something wrong with him. He wants to marry me already.
There is the fact that he will be attending graduate school for math in August. He does not have much of an income, but that doesn’t bother me. He is on a full scholarship, and he will be TAing. I don’t really like getting “stuff” from guys. He gave me a most amazing gift, actually. I told him I really like stars, so he drove me miles outside of the city on a clear night, and I saw more stars than I had since I was a little girl.
He is into some very esoteric things — some very non-mainstream spiritual things. I was not much of a spiritual person at all before he introduced me to it, and I’m still very much a skeptic. He is also a skeptic in that he does not claim to “know” anything, but he tends to dive into those things more fully. He says ridiculous things in weird accents sometimes. He snores and hogs the bed. But, I mean, everyone’s flawed. We’re only human, and we both know that and accept that.
I may well be his first real relationship. He has some baggage about women leaving him and hurting him intensely. He was the guy that girls would sort of toy with for a while when they were in another relationship, and then they would leave him to go back to the other guy, who was often a good friend of his. So in some ways he was soured on girls, because while he knew he had a lot of great traits, he felt like most girls didn’t appreciate him (and of course I tell him now that he is amazing to me!).
He was in some ways like contrarian, minus the attitude, because he is a generally positive and well-liked guy. He just wasn’t interested in girls he could pick up with “game.” Even though he did that a few times back in college, he didn’t want to go down that path and instead chose to work on other things. He was single for three years, and mostly he was content with it. Neither he nor I was not looking for anything when we met each other.
We are very much into each other. I’ve never admired a man so much before, to the point of actually gushing. I stared at him when he was laying on the bed eating a bowl of pistachios, until he got a little weirded out by my staring and pulled me over to kiss me. Did I mention that he is very physically loving? We feel very comfortable around each other, and it feels like we’ve known each other longer than we actually have.
To be honest, meeting him has been so life-changing that even if things were to end, I would have no regrets. I feel like I’ve been irrevocably changed, and that I now truly know love. Once I knew love as a feeling mixed with so much agony and pain, but now I feel love to be at once peaceful and joyful, invigorating and exhilarating. I don’t fear this ending, because I think we are both balanced enough individuals each with enough awareness and discipline to make this work.
It’s really kind of funny, re-reading what I’ve written. Maybe I sound a little loopy. Ah well. 🙂
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doug1
What you sound, Hope sweety, is totally infatuated and out of your gord in love. Great feelings! Congrats.
Well, we’ll see how things are going in five years or so. Being “in love,” as we know, is a temporary phenomenon.
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The feral human breeding cycle is 4-7 years. Divorce filing spikes in the statistics confirm this, as well as all the tens of thousands of “I don’t love my husband anymore” posts at dozens of advice sites like enotalone, loveshack, yahoo-answers, anwerology, and others.
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Hope
I will second what doug says, you sound wonderfully out-of-your-head in love. Ain’t it cool? 😀
How long have you known him? Was this a slow burn or a thunderbolt from above?
So how did it “go down.” How did this guy run non-game game? And I am being serious here. How did he get from nice-to-meet you to drive-out-to-the-stars? We discuss game because we want the best girl we can. If that takes game, fine; if it can be done would out game that is fine too.
If you won’t answer for me, answer for contrarian.
Oh! If you do get married, get a pre-nup. 😉
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Hope: Is ‘That No Good White Boy’ a story of shy (possibly ethnic) girls teen lives? I’m certainly too familiar with it.
Aww, the cuteness of your state kills.
maurice: Not another tragic story. At least noone dies. I shall get myself to a nunnery post-haste.
Def: Wolfram is a natural alpha and does not need to know of such things. I have not seen any of the shows you mentioned. I’ve not heard The Stranglers song before but it is fun. I’m probably going to be singing it randomly at bemused classmates, possibly ruining it with substituting with medical terms. ‘Whatever happened to, using placebo? No more evidence any more.’
Welmer: Your pretty lie perishing is going to make me cry. Someone hug this man.
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Bhetti
This might be more appropiate. Same era (70s). It discusses the effect of too much oxygen on the human mind.
[Musical style is the opposite of the earlier video – hope it works over there]
PS
I think that is what they called “Glam Rock.”
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there all no good bhetti don’t ya know for ya
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Hope, Bhetti
Hope:
Regarding your new man you might need to get a grip on yourself. 🙂
Bhetti:
More Stranglers for you…
hey I didn’t choose the name.
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Bhetti
You are a London Lady.
[in case you are worried that is a play on the title not any content in the lyrics]
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Bhetti–
I know, right?
LoL. You have certain sprinklings of Hope in you. Among other things.
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Why we study game? Because we know that life is Cool for Cats…
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While I am still “spinning the discs” from the 1970s Punk/New Wave era, how could I forget this. It pretty much started it all.
I wanna be Anarchy…
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Default
Your last is the only vid that doesn’t come up “embedding disabled by request”.
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DA,
I got a chick working for me now that wears high heels and has acrylic nails. The problem is that she is so damn timid that I don’t think I can poke her. Sounds like she’d be ideal for you.
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Contrarian,
It’s sort of true. I’d get jealous if the secretary cheats on me. But the married chicks I’m banging are ok if they fuck only their husbands. My wife (whom I still shack up with even though I’m separated) still isn’t okay with getting an “au pair” although it would help a lot.
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Bhetti
Some not-safe-for-work Gene Hunt
Gene Hunt loves kids (work safe)
Gene Hunt on love (nsfw)
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JerrDog–
Your shacking up while separated relationship with your wife sounds interesting. I’d like to hear more.
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Heh. Here’s someone who needs a hug:
Sad Girl
I had to laugh, because right after I saw your comment, my daughter needed to go down for a nap and was fussy and crying, so I put her in bed. She kept crying and was saying “I need a hug, daddy,” so I went in and gave her one, then took this picture.
I actually give and get hugs all the time.
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RE: Embedding restriction
Click on the up arrow and select and copy the URL.
The embedding thing is automatic. If you post a link to YouTube, WordPress creates the embedded version. I should have checked that they worked.
I will try and create working links that you can click on.
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I hope these links will work. Replacing the embedded disabled versions above.
The Stranglers – Get a Grip
The Stranglers – London Lady
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I hope this link will work. Replacing the embedded disabled version above.
Squeeze – Cool for Cats
Others appear to work. Let the DJ know if the don’t.
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doug,
I need to get my own place but the school years not out. Plus I have to sell a bunch of shit to buy a place (it’s expensive where I live) and that would trigger cap gains that I can’t offset. But the rental market only opens up in July/August – otherwise it is slim pickings. Plus the kids don’t have a clue about this yet and I have to figure out who will pick them up after school when it’s my turn to have them. Hence the “au pair” sex toy.
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doug,
by the way I fucked my wife last night and it was good for a change.
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I know the biochemical basis of love, the rush of dopamine and norepinehprine. My feeling is that people mistake being “in love” with the “obsessive neediness” and the “drama,” so when these disappear they feel like they have to chase the next “high.” Same behavior as in drug addiction. I was certainly like that when I was younger.
There was a time when I was very much a pessimist with regard to love, believing it to be merely a temporal state of peculiar brain chemistry designed to make us procreate — not worth all its troubles. Everyone who has ever loved considers that particular feeling of love as exceptional, unique and lasting. So my rational mind said, “This is just a feature of love’s chemicals. It is nothing unusual, just being caught up in the moment.”
The rational mind is good at making us miserable. How can the rational mind attempt to describe the experience of music? Yes, there are demonstrations of frequencies in hertz and vibrations of wavelengths, but in the end, it is something that must be felt and experienced. Even scientists are surprised by the fact that 10% of couples who have been together for 20 years still appear to be in love on fMRI imaging.
There’s the issue of the chicken vs. egg. Which came first? Did falling “out of love” cause the problems with the relationships or did the problems cause love to diminish over time? Were the two people not compatible to begin with? Did they actually see eye-to-eye, or did the biological state of “love” simply mask the problems until later? Couldn’t it be that people’s fears and baggage from past hurts cause them to act in ways that kill off love, rather than love dying a “natural” death?
He was accepting about my divorce situation, because his mom was also divorced and later remarried. His mom and step-dad have been together for over 20 years now. They have given a bit of advice on this subject.
There are things that two people can actively do to create light and love, and to keep the passion and romance alive. For example, instead of sitting down at night and watching TV, the couple can go out for a walk. They can work at keeping communication lines open, not being afraid to try new things and being spontaneous. They can nurture each other with mutual appreciation, acceptance, admiration and playfulness. Sure, one can call it “game” or one can call it being self-aware, conscious and willing to put in the effort towards building a healthy relationship.
I had known him since January, a while before we started really talking to each other. I didn’t think much of him until one day I started talking about my relationship woes, and he lent a sympathetic ear. He spoke of “balance” and impressed me with his wisdom and insight. Even though we weren’t talking about anything major, I could tell there was incredible depth brimming underneath the surface.
He ran “non-game” by being, well, himself. After a time he let down his social mask which was an “average normal guy” persona, and he let his deeper self shine through. He talked about subjects that most people do not consider, and which he also did not talk about with most people. Like me he also went through a period of darkness during which he was deeply unhappy, but then he began to walk the “path of light” as he calls it. He helped me break out of my cycle of guilt, resentment, pain, and negativity towards self-acceptance and love.
There were also certain odd coincidences that led to us being drawn towards each other. If I go into those, I’ll probably sound totally kooky. Yes, most of the coincidences can be explained by the fact that I am merely focusing on them, much the same way that I am focusing on the similarities and minimizing the differences between us. And there are, undeniably, differences, but this is certainly not a case of “opposites attract.” We vibrate on such similar frequencies that it borders on the uncanny. Suffice it to say that we’re two really weird people whose weirdnesses mesh pretty well.
Oh, and we both happen to be INFJs, except he’s a bit more extroverted and intuitive.
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JerrDog–
So what’s wrong otherwise?
Seeing as you have kids together, but you want variety and perhaps she does too, why not try to make an open relationship with some rules work?
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Most popular Eurovision song of all time which has just won in 09, ‘crossing political boundaries’:
Direct link (Alexander Rybak — Fairytale).
Europe’s so sappy. (Hope: ‘I don’t care if I lose my mind’)
Gunny: you are so right. I should go back to man-hating, which is the sensible option.
Default: At least I know Anarchy from Guitar Hero.
Gene Hunt = Hilarious! I’ve been missing out. Haven’t heard an insult anywhere near the one he dished out since school days.
You are wasting your songs on me. Get out there, man, don’t commit the crime of depriving womankind from your Default Awesomeness.
Welmer: She’s gorgeous but I bet a smile’s the prettiest. Dads’ hugs are the best. I basically spent most of my evenings cuddled by him, watching Die Hard, talking randomness, taking care of him. I’m very sentimental tonight because this really shouldn’t be anywhere near enough to provoke the waterworks.
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@feministx
Argh. I messed up the blockquotes. This one should be correctly formatted.
@feministx
So you claim it’s racist for White men to want to protect White women from the extremely disproportionate rapes committed by Black men (a small minority of them)?
Consider the following quote from Jared Taylor discussing the Color of Crime report in 2005:
Pat Buchanan discusses the subject here, including:
If the interracial rape rates between Blacks and White were fairly balanced, or were even balanced against some other statistical measure, like that the victims of the Black rapists were roughly comparable to the local population demographics, then perhaps excessive concern would be suspect, but the reality is so grossly one-sided that your argument has no merit.
Of course, not too many people are aware of these sorts of large disparities because our “civil society” including the mainstream media like to suppress discussion and coverage of the subject.
A recent example was the capture of an Black rapist and mass murderer of White women, John Floyd Thomas, Jr, suspected of over thirty rapes and murders.
The following Associated Press video report on youtube “Police Arrest Suspected Serial Killer” shows his picture demonstrating his Blackness, shows a couple of pictures of his White victims and mentions SOME patterns, like most of the women were older, widows and living along. Yet they never get around to mentioning that little detail that he is Black and ALL of his victims where White.
Here’s a Time story that also never gets around to mentioning the racial angle and here’s a google news search that links to lots of other MSM articles that play the same game.
Would the media be so coy if it were a White rapist and ALL 30+ of his victims were Black? BTW, coy is a euphemism for totally f***ing dishonest.
HINT: Consider how our “civil society”, including the MSM, responded to the FALSE Duke Lacrosse Team rape allegation. Compare and contrast.
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Bhetti
Ah, but I’ve been foiling you by remaining too mysterious for that.
Thoughts of he and Hope had crossed my mind until Hope spilled her gonner-ness. Of course those kinds of thoughts rarely work out.
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@doug
>So what’s wrong otherwise?
she didn’t fuck enough and she gained too much weight.
>Seeing as you have kids together, but you want variety
> and perhaps she does too, why not try to make an open
> relationship with some rules work?
I asked for that a couple times but she is apparently traditional and I think would feel humiliated. I’ve also tried to do it by just fucking around and seeing how she reacts. I’m sure that her former co-workers and boss (she don’t have to work anymore) would love to fuck her even though she is pudgy but apparently she doesn’t want it from them or anyone else that I know.
Most of the women that I’d like to fall in *love* with wouldn’t stand for it either. But then again, i’m not sure that there is such a thing as *love* anymore. I thought I was in *love* with my wife my first year (or even two) with her and that was a great feeling that I’d like to have again sometime. I’d also like to impregnate more women as well.
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Here’s a question I have:
If your woman has sex with another woman is it cheating on you?
To me it is only cheating if the woman is butch.
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Hope
Because I am still in DJ mode:
You are correct Love is the Drug. However it is still legal. Accept no counterfeit; go with the brand name, not the generic.
On his game translating from NFese to Gamerati
He had not discovered game yet.
He started with sneaky-fucker game.
With expert calibration he saw that he needed to switch to astrology-girl game.
The best game is “invisible.” This guy is good.
It took a while, but he was eventually able to perfectly calibrate his game to the target.
All of the above was, of course, a joke. As a (P)erceiving type, everything is a bit of a joke to me. You may think I am evil, but it is just my humor (my brain made me do it).
No jokes here. Regarding the quote below, I am glad. I hope (interesting how your name crops up when looking towards a brighter future) that it continues.
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gregi, you’re better than this:
The state doesn’t give you a free ride just because you popped out a kid. The state doesn’t force a man to support you when you pop out kid with the wrong guy.
Except neither of those statements have anything to do with the very specific instance to which I was referring. That is, when a woman does every single thing she’s supposed to do as a wife, forsaking her own earning opportunities to support her husband & raise their kids, and then gets dumped for a younger model.
If a man does this simply because he tires of her, he has used her just as heinously as cuckolders use their cuckolds.
I’m thinking of my own mother as an example. She dropped out of nursing school to be a full-time wife & mom — because my father wanted it that way. If that was her primary job until I was 18 and my father had left her at that point, she would have been at a severe disadvantage entering the workforce unskilled and without relevant experience at age 57. In a situation like that it is unjust to say, “She gets nothing.”
This is precisely the reason that women should always, always be able to make their own way, and never, ever put their entire lives/futures in the hands of another person. It’s all well and good if the man is honorable, but what if he isn’t?
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JerrDog
It’s an intermediate situation. In some ways yes, others no or not as much, depending.
She’s not in danger of having the other woman’s love child, so that’s a BIG visceral difference.
If she’s all or mostly lesbian, or otherwise enjoys sex with the other woman a whole lot more than with you (or worse she just goes through the motions with you), then yes she is cheating on you. You’re being lust / love replaced or never really stood a chance in the first place (see feministx).
If the other woman is a little extra spice only that mostly only happens because you encourage it, and even more if you sometimes get in on it in a threesome, then no it’s not really cheating and if you’re up to it, could be good to great. If your woman is mostly seeking your love and approval and does other stuff for that reason, it’s all good.
But how much of this didn’t you already know?
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I got a chick working for me now that wears high heels and has acrylic nails. The problem is that she is so damn timid that I don’t think I can poke her. Sounds like she’d be ideal for you.
IIRC, don’t timid girls tend to want alphas even more to compensate for their timidity?
If your woman has sex with another woman is it cheating on you?
If there’s a threesome, there’s no cheating. 🙂
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OK, wankers, read this post, re: LILGRL.
comment_whatever said:
Then you have LILGRL, who despite being a worse choice as a wife than FeministX, attracts many men here and leads them around by the nose. Cause her mother taught her how to date/flirt/look for a husband.
And yeah, guys, I know there is nothing better than an Attention Whore, Exhibitionist, with a liberal arts degree, and who is also a Japanese Princess/American Princess.
She could also be a feminist to. A spoiled one.
Number one:
LILGRL is not a feminist. She supports MPT, generally advocates for the rights of men, favors rolling back feminist changes in society, and endorses traditional gender roles.
If you think she is a feminist, or even might be, then one of the following is true:
(a) you haven’t read her posts and are solely reasoning from stereotypes;
(b) you have read her posts, and don’t believe a word of them;
(c) you’re stupid.
None of these is good.
—
Number two:
I’ll give you “attention whore”, and even “exhibitionist”.
Guess what, fuckers? What does the men’s cause in this country need?
ATTENTION.
LILGRL, or at least the persona that she projects online, is EXACTLY the type of personality that is DESPERATELY NEEDED for the cause of men and families in this country.
She is personable, confident, and well-spoken. But she’s also young and hot. Women will listen to her.
We need women like her.
Many of you would rather have a more modest, more retiring, less exhibitionistic woman as wife. But do you think that such a woman could do jack-fucking-shit for the public cause of men?
Zero chance.
Men, families, and anti-feminist causes need attention.
LILGRL is pro-men, pro-family, and anti-feminist.
LILGRL gets, AND HOLDS, attention.
This is a good thing.
Even Welmer, who has occasionally lashed out at this site’s women for reasons that are at best tenuous (like the time he called Bhetti a hairy neanderthal, or something along those lines), has correctly identified the tremendous value of someone like LILGRL.
—
Number three:
Novaseeker said: If this were a forum, this should be stickied.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Pop quiz, fuckers.
How did feminism achieve such spectacular gains?
By reaching shamelessly, everywhere, for help. Into any quarter from which any assistance for their pernicious cause could be sought.
Feminists have no trouble recruiting beta men, WHOM THEY DESPISE, to help their cause.
Nova, even if you HATE women at this point because, the drubbings you’ve taken from them, we need to rip that particular page from the feminist playbook and use it. Men will achieve nothing if we alienate people who can, and will, help us, in any way.
LILGRL is one of those people. As I stated above, she could potentially be a very important one of those people, if enough wankers like you don’t preemptively shoot her down first.
Shit.
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Hope
Do you know which of you is the more (F)eeling. Your posts swing between logical (T) and poetic (F).
Do you know what the soon to be forgotten ex was? I am guessing xSxP.
Two NFs can be interesting. Just make sure you don’t get lost in dream world. Someone has to organize stuff in the real world. 🙂
I am glad that he found you. Life can be tough for a male NF because their natural state is not what is expected of a man.
To the males reading this:
Remember INF types are about one or two percent of the population. What worked here (be yourself) may not work elsewhere. Do not try this at home. Use at your own risk.
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doug:
I’m just me, which is completely individual, some parts constant, some parts in flux and contains elements of most women.
Or humanity.
I think there’s a potential in all of us to be anyone. No, that’s not right. An element. A part. A reflection that resonates with what someone else is. It doesn’t take that much of a leap from me to a nun, a statistician, a lone parent, a murderess, a stripper, a CEO. So what part of me, sir, is actually a part of you?
Does that make any kind of sense? If I had any drugs to lay off, I would! But the only drugs I take are my own neurotransmitters, which is like Hope said, heavy stuff.
If you think I can hate a man after knowing him, you are mistaken, trouble.
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Marcus Aureliette–
So did she, probably at least as much or more. Particularly once you were in school. At that point especially her job became very, very cushy. Country squiresse. American stay at home women often live very liesurely and luxurious wives.
If she was determined to resume her career, for which she was well trained though it’s hard work, he certainly could hardly have stopped her.
Your stay at home mom waited until she was 39 to have kids? Waaa? That’s certainly hardly typical for women who give up their careers and don’t return to them at all before the kids are in college.
As well as a trained nurse, with the nursing shortage and some refresher or finishing classes, she could have done fine.
American and Anglosphere women want all the options and all the choices these days, but as well for their husbands if they’re at all successful to have to backstop them and pay for those choices, which culturally are supposed to be and often are entirely the woman’s, no matter what they are.
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Hope,
Not that it’ll make you feel better because you probably think I’m a putz but I actually want a divorced early/mid 30’s woman (even with kids) for my next *love*. I’m going to specifically seek them out to the exclusion of other women. I can fuck younger women but I think I can only fall in love with someone like me.
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Scotch
I followed the Duke case with great interest from the beginning because my own workplace had been tortured by a false sexual harassment claim in the past and my instincts were very strong from the start that the DA was rotten to the core as soon as he started refusing to listen to defense evidence.
The truth was far worse than most people ever suspected. Mike Nifong and the Duke Administration knew those kids were innocent/no crime occurred even before the indictments. The Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner fabricated evidence for the corrupt prosecution.
There is pure evil in the world. Prepare yourselves for a fight.
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doug:
So then she shouldn’t be those things if for her it’s too big a sacrifice.
It’s only a sacrifice if he abandons her after she’s given him those 18+ years. Come on, Doug, you know exactly what I’m saying and you’re being deliberately obtuse.
Her life, her opportunities (commensurate with her abilities, effort, and umph), her choices, and her responsibility for those choices.
Women are full adults now with full agency, remember?
Is anyone saying they aren’t?
If she gives up her opportunities to gain skills/experience in the working world and is then thrust out into it in her mid-50s, are you saying that it’s her own fault for not seeing into the future when she made the choice to marry in the first place?
I have to wonder why you were not this flippant when the subject was cuckolds being swindled out of their time/effort/finances.
What man can require a woman to be a full time mom these days?
I work with three of them, just off the top of my head. Young men, adamant that their women stay at home to keep house and raise the kids, and not take work outside the home until the kids are in high school.
Actually being a mom of two kids isn’f full time or anything close these days. Full time school age moms are living the life of country squires, full of leisure and ease.
I don’t know one single mom for whom this is the case. If you know any mothers who are kicked back all day eating bonbons and watching their stories, you should publish the secret of how they manage it. I know at least 20 women who’d pay dearly for that information!
Anyway, don’t try to evade by saying “it’s not that hard”, or “how many women really stay home?” How many men are really cuckolded in a year? Is the number relevant to whether or not it’s unjust? Welshing on a bargain is welshing on a bargain, and marriage is a bargain in both directions. If you convince a woman to devote 20 years of her life to making you her priority and then you ditch her because you get bored, then yes, you owe her something, because you have reneged on the deal.
If you want fair play, you want it for everyone, or you’re just as bad as the radical feminists you complain about.
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Trust me, I’ve got my reasons.
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Doug,
Again, I maintain what I said-White Women catch breaks Black folk do not, and much of it is Affirmative Action based. When there’s talk of removing glass ceilings, more flexible work hours, more female representation among the higher echelon ranks of cushy pencil pushing jobs (note how White women in particular don’t scream and holler that much for the grimey jobs of the world), government contracts, Title IX, more endowment monies at universities specifically to address Women’s concerns, the list goes on-what do you think that is, Doug? Ain’t that Affirmative Action? If not, what is it? You tell me.
It’s time for those White guys who bitch and moan about Darkies, NAMs and let’s just say it, plain ole Niggers, “taking” *their* jobs and college slots to Man the fuck up and put the blame wherw it really is, their sister, auntie, female cousin, mama, and the hottie they been tryin to get in her pants in for the longest. About the ONLY White guy who has ever consistently spoke on it in this regard has been Whiskey, and he’s either ignored or made fun of. Fascinating. But of course, he’s telling the truth.
As for our East Indian brothers and sisters, I couldn’t possibly care less about what they think about me or my people, one, because I know more about them, their history, their ways, their culture and the fucked up way they have and continue to do things, racially, in their own homeland for centuries, and two, because I ain’t like the rest of the Negroes they’ve ever read about or known. If they think they can pull rank on O, they done ran accross the wrong Brotha for that. They need to understand that they are now a part of the Great American Skin Game, which means, that while they may not be treated as Niggers, they ain’t quite White either, and all the Honorary slots are filled (mainly Asians and Jews on that front). So, they need to recognize, so long as they don’t make too many waves, they’ll be cool-step outta line, and they too shall be Niggerized by Mr. Charlie.
I stand by what I said about White Women and AA. If y’all White boys are really serious, you’d Man the fuck up and put your Women in their proper place.
That is what Game is all about.
Isn’t it?
The Obsidian
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Trust me, I’ve got my reasons.
I know you do. I’ve got mine, too. But we can’t let mases of pyrite occlude our view of occasional pieces of gold.
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Marc Aur
So, if a husband provides his stay at home wife with enough maids/domestic help to give her lots of free time & options he owes her nothing if their deal falls apart? Just curious.
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Marcus Aureliette
I wasn’t talking about a single mom but a married woman who chooses to be a full time mother, as was perfectly plain. In fact your transferring this over to a single mom is bizzare.
As for knowing a mother for whom it was the case, how about my own mother. She got so bored that she volunteered to work for the county adoption agency. She quickly became the paid President of it. Then she got her MA on the side while still doing that work as a board member. And so on.
Although if the single mom is divorced from a high earning professional man and doesn’t have to work, similar things apply, child support=alimony is so large and uncapped a percentage of a man’s pre tax income.
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So did she, probably at least as much or more. Particularly once you were in school. At that point especially her job became very, very cushy. Country squiresse. American stay at home women often live very liesurely and luxurious wives.
She wanted what my father wanted, because she was utterly devoted to him. Her own wants were, quite literally, on the back burner. But that’s what she agreed to. She held up her part of the bargain, which was to take care of every aspect of the home & children, while my father was the sole breadwinner, BECAUSE HE WANTED IT THAT WAY.
And pardon me for saying so, but: bite me. The fact of the matter is, I was there and you weren’t. She worked all the time, as housekeeper, groundskeeper, cook, child-care provider — without any assistance whatsoever, thank you very much. She worked harder than my dad did, and he was the first to admit it. Also: not American.
If she was determined to resume her career, for which she was well trained though it’s hard work, he certainly could hardly have stopped her.
Let’s just put it this way: you didn’t know my father. He wanted her home, and home she was.
Your stay at home mom waited until she was 39 to have kids? Waaa? That’s certainly hardly typical for women who give up their careers and don’t return to them at all before the kids are in college.
No, she had the last child at 39.
As well as a trained nurse, with the nursing shortage and some refresher or finishing classes, she could have done fine.
She dropped out of school 20 years prior, Doug. It wouldn’t have been refresher or finishing; it would have been starting over entirely. Why are you being so obtuse? You’re not a stupid person, but you’re knee-jerking just like a radical feminist.
American and Anglosphere women want all the options and all the choices these days, but as well for their husbands if they’re at all successful to have to backstop them and pay for those choices, which culturally are supposed to be and often are entirely the woman’s, no matter what they are.
You’re the only one claiming this, Doug. I never have. I say only that, regardless of gender, you are obliged to behave honorably. Nobody gets a pass on that.
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I have the daydream to find a cute little 2nd to live with me and my new girl. The plan is to gift a vibrator to them, so that they can share it when I’m off travelling. That way I’d worry less about cheating. It’s the only way I can think to keep a high sex drive woman from being overpowered by her urges for man meat.
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rum:
So, if a husband provides his stay at home wife with enough maids/domestic help to give her lots of free time & options he owes her nothing if their deal falls apart? Just curious.
Sure, why not? If she outsources all her responsibilities, then she has time to devote to it, yes? In that case I’d have to say he will owe her nothing. If she didn’t make hay while the sun shone, that’s her own fault.
This is not the sort of devoted wife I was using in my original example, obviously. I said right off the bat that the woman I was describing was a rarity, and destined to become extinct, eventually.
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GAH! Tags are my nemesis, obviously. Sorry for the italics.
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I am the more feeling one, but not by much. He is less introverted, more intuitive, and less judging. We both have a logical/analytical side, too. Side effect of being nerds, maybe?
That makes a lot of sense, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily
“Individuals in homophilic relationships share common characteristics (beliefs, values, education, etc.) that make communication and relationship formation easier. Homophily often leads to homogamy (marriage to people with similar characteristics).”
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Mar Aur.
As a man I command the woman to do as I say… Ha Ha Ha. On what planet do you live? You sir, have a diseased mind that cannot see the plain facts in front of its face. Women have NEVER done anything they did not want to do. What men might say about it is meaningful to them only as a basis for building an excuse for doing whatever they desired to do in the first place.
Being easily fooled is not a turn on to females – although they do try to smear approval all over guys who do their bidding.
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Bhetti
As a guy, do you really think I would listen to what a chick told me to do? 🙂
Brian Ferry who performed Love is the Drug (link is above) was at one time the coolest guy in pop. He was also fairly good looking. However, he must not have had good game because he wrote this:
You see, it all started poorly:
Classic rooky mistake: Over eager expressions of interest before he had secured attraction.
See The full sad story
The lesson guys is that being a rock star helps but it does not beat game. Just ask Rod Stewart.
Ferry also suffered from Jealousy
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If you guys were on Jeopardy:
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Marcus Aureliette-
Culture matters and cultural and material conditions matter.
It hardly makes any sense to keep having this conversation if you won’t say what country you grew up in and are talking about.
Giving your country is hardly personally identifying.
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It’s interesting to note his score otherwise!
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Bhetti
Ken was robbed, he was!
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Bhetti
PS. Bliss.
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Def: (special messages just for me, yay) I could not finish any of those songs. Too much sad.
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Bhetti
“If you guys were on Jeopardy:”
LOL
Bhetti, you little rake. 😉
I would have gone with the first answer as well.
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Bhetti:
I would have said, “Whats a Bhetti?”
Heh.
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Bhetti
See, he has good game.
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Welmer:You got your hands on my bribed-the-authorities-to-hush-it-up criminal record? I thought he didn’t have a spine, so I didn’t think I could break it. Honest!
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Schoolboy
An Arabeque Boop?
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schoolboy: You’re so witty, you are. I know what would get me pleasure out of you, boy, and it does involve long-handled implements. And lots of blood. (Yeah, you really need to change that name.)
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Bhetti
Team mate, mine.
*smiles*
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PA
So you’re not speaking form immediate personal experience?
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To those of you who want to calm a baby, remember the gentle rhythm, a soft whisper, and don’t estimate the power of a haunting melody.
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Bhetti–
I think you’re rewriting history re beta #2, but that’s how it should have gone, and likely now would.
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Bhetti
Wow there is a whole new side to you that I have never seen…
…Oh wait. All that talk of DOMming. Now it makes sense.
Oh and dont you commit the crime of depriving mankind of your natural awesomeness. Get out there, girl.
😉
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Bhetti:
Don’t kid yourself. You wouldn’t harm a fly.
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Hope
Just out of interest. Did you enjoy my (attempted) humorous dissection of your man’s game?
Yes, No, That was humor?
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@Obsidian
I don’t quite see the affirmative action issue among race realists like you you. I don’t think most opponents of affirmative action give a big pass to White women, but would rather see the entire PC and quota system scrapped, including White women. Overall though, the boost given to White women is somewhat lower than that given to Blacks as a group, since White women have similar intellectual abilities to White men statistically. But for the record, I think the entire sex-based parity regime is a crock and should be scrapped and is based on similar distortions as other forms of affirmative action, including ignoring that, statistically, many women want to have children and care for them, which sets back their careers compared to men. Women also tend to be less work-centric than high achieving men although of course there are individual exceptions, like Janet Napolitano, and women overall have different interests (e.g. people-centric) than men.
A typical example of excess is Ricci v. DeStefano currently being litigated before the Supreme Court where the city of New Haven entirely scrapped ALL promotions because they didn’t have a qualified Black test taker pass. This is the sort of ultra-cautious legal defense mentality that has transformed affirmative action from an attempt at redressing historical wrongs, into creating new historical wrongs instead and encouraging an ethnocentric instead of a colorblind society.
I wouldn’t mind a little bit of affirmative action if it were done how it was originally sold, to make sure that Blacks, or others, who had mistreated as a group in the past were given a small boost if they pretty much equally qualified for the positions, at least for a while, say another ten or twenty years (but not in its current form).
The problem is that it was rapidly transformed into a quota system that assumed if Blacks didn’t have very similar outcomes to Whites, then some sort of nefarious racism or discrimination was assumed to be the culprit. Steve Sailer discusses the “four fifths rule” in this article.
Another major problem is that it should ONLY apply to long running American citizens, like native Blacks and Native Americans, and not every third world immigrant that arrives with no history here, including all modern Hispanic immigrants.
I think it’s very unfair to put all the blame for differences in Black-White outcome on racism or discrimination by Whites when other factors like IQ and cultural differences also play a role. Consider the large variety of other disparities that exist, for example, between Blacks and Jews, Arab-Americans, Asian-Americans or between Whites and Jews or Asian-Americans. Basically many different disparities exist between many different groups, so if we’re going to be obsessed with the differences between NAMs and Whites, why don’t we break down the demographic categories more finely, e.g. Jews, Epsicopalians, Unitarians, etc. and just have the social engineers assign everyone their societal position based on absolute fairness since they’re our superiors and they know best? Well, they can’t be our superiors because everyone is EXACTLY the same, unless they’re considering their own status within the SWPL pantheon and which Ivy they attended. 🙂
I’m gonna be busy tonight, but I look forward to your response tomorrow.
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Meanwhile… drug dealers and illegal immigrants are crossing the border undetected.
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lol.
You’re just a stand-in, Bhetti. I’ll explain when I have more than a minute free.
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SF,
I question the supposed intellectual parity of White Women to White Men when Larry Summers can lose his job at Harvard because he said something the White Women in attendance didn’t like-and, keep in mind now, these are supposed to be academics/scientists-is that the way to behave? And yet, this IS how so often, lots of White Women professionals behave. It is not an islolated incident by a longshot.
Affirmative Action insofar as Blacks are concerned, really only serves middle to upper middle class Black folk, let’s be honest. Every once in a while a truly poor Black kid from the hood gets in, but usually its those from the at least nominally middle class that get in there. Whether that’s good or bad is a matter up for debate to me, but I think all sides need to recognize and come clean on this fact.
I’m quite familiar w/the Ricci case, and my own personal position is, the test is what it is, you either pass it or you don’t, end of story. Having said that though, let’s not pretend that all this handwringing we’re seeing from White guys everywhere is based on some great love for Ricci, because truth be told, this aint nothing but a big ole cause celebre for them. If it weren’t for this case, Ricci would be looked down on almost as bad as NAMs *because* he’s blue collar and working class, and let’s face it, most of you guys are white collar and don’t think that highly of the blue.
I hear you on the scrapping the gender parity stuff, and usually the HBDers will say things like that when their arm is twisted. I need to see some of that vim and vigor that is visited on NAMs directed at Amy and Heather for a change. I need to some HBDers with some fucking balls, stand up for once and back Summers up. I need to see more blog postings about stuff like that, instead of Whiskey being the lone voice in the wilderness. Then and only then will I, and for that matter, Black folk enmasse, take you guys seriously. Until, its only pissing in the wind.
Looking forward to your response.
O
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this race talk bores me.
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So long, and thanks for all the fish! wrote:
Meanwhile… drug dealers and illegal immigrants are crossing the border undetected.
Bye Marcus Aureliette.
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doug:
I’m getting a picture of my head of a man grimly saying ‘I’ll handle it’ then coming back home with a lot of laundry to be done. Civilised version!
Clearly romantacised. <— hopeless.
And, no, I’m aware I didn’t really break anyone’s spine. From the way he took it, I comitted crimes more heinous than this.
Def: I’m also totally out there. I’ve lost track of all the engagements I’ve supposedly had. But there’re times when one should be studying.
Still, it’s not that fun. Went to a fancy dinnah and was bored out of my mind (missing doug, checking Internets on my phone which I can’t comment from, being bemused I was labelled as AWOL), including carousing students. Making a comment on the resulting pics on Facebook was more fun than the actual thing.
Romance novel-related link for you:
schoolboy: (Dear doug, please forgive me for replying but you may find this interesting, thank you)
I have punched out a helpless beta who wouldn’t hit me back once, with reported tooth chipping. And slapped another one in a reflex reaction who asked the very bad question when one is engrossed in a book: ‘What crappy book are you reading now?’ (I reacted before I could stop myself) And threw a shoe at a boy who was just sexually harassing me. And… er… I think that’s it. All around when I was 12ish.
If we don’t include acts of violence against relatives, that’s pretty much my catalogue. Which I suppose is nothing, especially now that they’re all big guys now, not boys.
I think the West has knocked that out of me. I remember crying because some idiot cut my hair, not because I was upset but because I was so frustrated with being angry and not allowing myself to act on it. I don’t think anybody would’ve been happy with me sticking those scissors somewhere where they would really hurt.
But, yes. No hurting flies (speaking of that, my venus flytrap needs to be fed). C’est moi.
No vids for feminist? I gots one:
Here’s hoping you find a nice Sharuh for shaadi. Explosions are the perfect background for romance.
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Bhetti:
Oh “Estelle”…you are quite the girl.
Oh and…
A Venus Fly trap as a pet= Beta.
A Pirahhna as a pet= Alpha.
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Obsidian
What Larry Sumners said at Harvard went beyond “what women did not like.” He made one them actually run from the room crying real tears of un-bearable pain. What he said was that most geniuses and dunces are XY guys and the comfortable, bland middle -range-talent is where the XX females hide out..
It was true then. It is true now.
I work with a number of black females. They are OK , they hold the middle. Some of them are fuckabe but I will not talk about that until I have an action report. That will curl j yoi
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Obsidian —
First, though I am over-degreed and over-credentialed, like a lot of guys I know I’m working-class in attitudes, origins, and identity. I know quite a lot of folks with the same education but identity as working class. Identity is usually formed by who/what your father was.
Second, most men ARE at odds with most White women over well, Affirmative Action. HECK I even had a POST ON IT. Bottom line: the Welfare State benefits White women and non-White or Gay men (and women), not White guys. While I can’t speak for the commenters here, most men are at this point pretty much aware that “the rules” allow pretty women to sleep their way to the top (and many do) while they are stuck in “drone” positions for the most part. [Office Space has a good take on that.]
As Obama ramps up the Federal Government as THE employer of pretty much EVERYONE, the “No White Guys Allowed” is a HUGE issue. As in Ricci, working class White guys pass the tests, with the highest scores, but don’t get promoted on merit. Instead the City does a BS route of throwing out the tests and using “informal” stuff to promote only Blacks and Hispanics.
That sort of stuff was “go along get along” as long as White guys were making money in good times outside the government. NO ONE ELSE IS HIRING but the Feds, and they said explicitly “No White Men Allowed” (quoth Robert Reich). Guys who went from $200 bottle service to get busy with women now are MAYBE waiting tables at some dive, for min or near it wages, getting nothing, while White Women, Gays, and various non-Whites of both sexes get hired.
THAT is socially explosive. It’s politically unsustainable.
Even more explosive, White Women are in open alliance with non-Whites and Gays to basically get rid of “beta White guys” from employment and public life. It’s why the Democratic Party, home to White Women, runs articles in Salon titled “So Long White Boy” or the Washington Post writes articles “celebrating the end to Whiteness.” What they are saying is basically a middle finger extended to most (non-Alpha) White Men. White women were all over the Duke Lacrosse guys, aka “the Return of Tawana Brawley” in the usual political line-up: White guys who are not Alpha, married older White women with sons; up against White Women, Gays, non-Whites, and various Alpha type White guys (Bill Clinton, John Edwards, etc.)
Bottom line, in Obama’s Economy, the government controls EVERYTHING. All employment. All hiring and firing. All raises, all promotions, all demotions. White guys come last. That’s not sustainable and WILL generate a backlash, politically. At Obama’s core coalition: SWPL yuppies, White women, non-Whites. Look at websites like “Look At This F—ing Hipster” or “Hot Chicks with D-bags” or heck any number of websites. The average guy knows well who his political/social/cultural/economic enemies are and well, hates them.
The only way to stop that is to have White guys get their fair share cut of the demographic pie (they are the largest group, in fairness should get the biggest slice). The government pie is all there is to eat, so expect a big fight over it.
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Rum: Genius has its price. There’s a level where even more intelligence just won’t do you any good, and compromise social functioning. A Short History of Nearly Everything made it quite clear to me genius does not make a person happy.
Extremes = IQ/EQ polarisation for the most part, very disadvantageous. Which is probably part of why so little men reproduce relatively speaking.
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Here is an arrangement i came across:
(1) negotiate wages for the amount of time she spend cooking and cleaning; (2) put a price tag on sex; (3) triple the price tag on sex if it results in pregnancy; (4) further increase the amount if the pregnancy results in the birth of a child; and (5) set aside a specific amount every month for the child’s use.
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I am absolutely sick to death of the race talk.
Somehow, somewhere, somebody always manage to insert race into the conversation.
Jesus H fucking christ on Wheelchair
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Hmm, it seems I’m a little late to this party.
I’m only really here to say one thing, and that’s:
@Welmer
Your daughter is gorgeous, and she looks just like you.
But, while I’m here, I suppose I should address the issue of, uh, me.
@ Comment_Whatever
Okay, actually, I’m not sure what to say to you. Did you accuse me of being able to flirt? Because, uh, yes, guilty as charged.
Also, can you re-translate what it is I’m apparently saying? Because you’ve confused me a bit.
“Yes, guy-pet, you can complain all you want, and I’ll even pretend to agree with you, so long as you take it like a good boy.”
^Who was I talking to? Who was complaining? Who was I pretending to agree with? whiskey? 87?
Thanks for translating, in advance! 🙂 Let’s talk this out, homeslice.
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LOL,
———————–
i hear ya. i don’t even bother to convert babies for jesus, let alone an Indian dyke.
just saying she’d be good to fuck doggystyle over her ottoman, then wipe my cock off on her sari.
dirty bitch would sext me the next day – guaranteed
———————-
LMFAO. That is full of 100% win, dude.
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Just Do It Girl (aka Hope):
“The human animal is not meant to live in such large population groups. Dunbar’s number is significantly lower than the number of people living in modern towns and cities. Nation-states are simply too large to fit human morality. Humans are most moral when they live in small villages of genetic-closeness.”
Correctemundo. You’ve come a long way, baby! Actual insight on display here.
Hope continues:
“Societies approach entropy the larger and more heterogeneous they become. That the modern nation-states have not degenerated into civil war after civil war already is a testament to how malleable and adaptable the human animal truly is.”
Yeah, they are malleable and adaptable. But they aren’t THAT malleable and adaptable. Stay tuned!
But seriously, good comment. Keep posting like that and Nike might need a new spokeswoman.
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Contrarian:
>Yet more proof of the fact that PUAs are
>fundamentally immoral and unethical, and
>such spoiled little brats that they want to have
>everything both ways. They
Bullshit, this chick could have had money, a worthy fuck, her kids, and a house but instead she decided to fuck it all up for herself.
I don’t consider myself a PUA, but I’m certainly giving women what they really want. They cum with a huge look of joy on their faces. I can hear there happy sighs. I can see the exileration and excitement when I ask them out. Sometimes I see the pictures of their loser boyfriends/husbands on the mantle/facebook page and think to myself “what a looser fucktard”.
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>$188,000. Say it to yourself. ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY-EIGHT THOUSAND.
You’d be calling be beta of the fucking decade if you found out what I’m going to pay – especially since I think it is actually fair.
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I should probably explain what I liked about LILGRL.
She came on this board openly and honest about who she is. She put her own photos up for everyone to see rather than surreptitiously handing them out to her favorites. She is not, as far as I can tell, trying to game anyone on this site (I have my suspicions about others). This site is about game for men, but we men ought to be absolutely clear about the fact that women can game men better than the other way around. Women who come on here trying to game men will get both barrels pointed at them from me, especially if I sense they are dissing their current men to put out bait for other men — this is a classic whore tactic designed to appeal to the male ego.
LILGRL did not do that. She is not that way as far as I can tell. If she were, my guess is that she would have been suggesting vague dissatisfaction with some man in her life, then when some typical bottom feeder bit she would initiate a private correspondence with him. As an example, I recently had a girl I knew from long ago get in touch with me, then tell me that her “ex” (yeah, right), was a loser in rehab, but she still loved him. I knew exactly what she was doing, and told her to quit calling me and go back to him. The last thing I want is some bitch who is trying to play the flying trapeze with men. I know from experience that she’ll eventually do the same to me.
LILGRL may write things that you or I don’t like, but she isn’t trying to hook up with us. At least I sure don’t see her doing that. If anything, she likes showing what she’s got, and if that isn’t normal for a woman, I really don’t know what is.
What’s valuable about her presence is her refreshing candor. Yes, she’s a woman through and through, but she has a quality that is oh-so-rare in that half of our species: honesty. If I met her randomly and she is really as tall as she says, I’d probably feel compelled to talk to her simply because that would be impressive to see and I’d like to commend her for her good luck in the genetic lottery. Otherwise, I welcome her presence here as an example of a woman who is not afraid of baring either her physique or mentality. She does not dissemble! How often do you see that in a woman? Hardly ever!
I save my venom for the tricky ones, who dodge and lie and give us only one part truth for a hundred parts deceit.
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femx-
“Shall I invest in plastic surgery? I was considering a nose job. After seeing what ps did for holly madison (face went from 5 to 10), I think there may be real utility in some operations.”
The flaw in your face is the fat on your cheeks. You’ve got beautiful eyes and lips but you look doughy.
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ahh the 2nd sneaky fucker game expert.
The only problem I see with the sneaky fucker game is the woman gets an illusion. So that when you show the you she probably tends to get upset that she got cheated. he he he
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“”””””””””””””””Marcus Aureliette
gregi, you’re better than this:
The state doesn’t give you a free ride just because you popped out a kid. The state doesn’t force a man to support you when you pop out kid with the wrong guy.
Except neither of those statements have anything to do with the very specific instance to which I was referring. That is, when a woman does every single thing she’s supposed to do as a wife, forsaking her own earning opportunities to support her husband & raise their kids, and then gets dumped for a younger model.
If a man does this simply because he tires of her, he has used her just as heinously as cuckolders use their cuckolds.
I’m thinking of my own mother as an example. She dropped out of nursing school to be a full-time wife & mom — because my father wanted it that way. If that was her primary job until I was 18 and my father had left her at that point, she would have been at a severe disadvantage entering the workforce unskilled and without relevant experience at age 57. In a situation like that it is unjust to say, “She gets nothing.”
This is precisely the reason that women should always, always be able to make their own way, and never, ever put their entire lives/futures in the hands of another person. It’s all well and good if the man is honorable, but what if he isn’t?””””””””””””””””””””
Your right I am better than this. I have already helped my woman to have freedom. This is the way I think it should always work. So no I will never have the same problem with my current woman. Woman need to step up to the plate and do something. Your mom could have done some extra shit on the side. Why do you think woman should get a retirement check for being married. They need to create their own check through their efforts. Of course not everyone will make their own retirement checks. I am saying it is possible though and if you don’t achieve that as a couple then you can both suffer the consequences. How many companies were jumping through hoops to hire your dad at 57 even with his lifetime of “training”.
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“””””””””””””””That is, when a woman does every single thing she’s supposed to do as a wife, forsaking her own earning opportunities to support her husband & raise their kids,””””””””””””””
Specifically on this from marcus. She didn’t do everything she was supposed to do she didn’t help him beat the game.
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I always helped and encouraged my wife to be independent as well. Didn’t work out so well for me — except for the fact that I didn’t end up owing her anything after we got divorced.
You help a woman to be free, and she will eventually be free — from you (unless you are willing to give up your own freedom and self-respect, which I was not).
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Why I still am working on my own freedom. We both will be free in the relationship. Except with our promise to each other she is not free to end it. Neither am I. So yea I guess I gave up some freedom.
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Comment — Gotta go with LilGirl on this one.
If you are a guy and you get cheated on, what is your HIGHEST PRIORITY?
Why, to get a new girl, of course!
EVERYTHING must flow from that priority. Whatever helps you (get a new girl, presumably hotter/better) should be embraced. Whatever hinders that goal, should be RUTHLESSLY SHOVED ASIDE.
It’s a matter of mental discipline. Sure, no one likes being hurt and everyone wants to hurt back.
But a man cannot afford to indulge his feelings like that. It’s both unmanly (giving into emotions) AND counterproductive to your first priority: Get a new/better girl.
Simple as that. You literally cannot AFFORD to feel anything but indifference to the old girl, because you are totally focused on the new girl. This is particularly true because your market value took a beating.
Girl dumped you, cheated on you, once that gets around it’s like buyers taking a huge pass on a house because it’s got problems. Value to women only goes down because women assess your value based on how other women perceive you. Already one woman has made a judgment about you: she’d rather have someone else for sex.
Revenge, thinking one second about the woman in question, is simply time you cannot waste and emotions you cannot indulge. Focus, focus, focus on your goal.
As for controlling cheating, not going to happen. EVER. Women only care about cheating if they miss out on a good thing. IF every guy who was cheated on promptly got a new and better girl, THAT would the only control that mattered. But it’s not probable. You must therefore look to your own self interest.
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The reason high-IQ men have self-inflicted problems with women are :
1) High IQ people tend to bore in the company of average-IQ people. Thus, they don’t socialize as easily, particularly with woman, who tend to talk about unintelligent subjects. This is particularly true of INTJ personality types.
2) They tend to be in professions with too few women, creating less exposure and more betatude.
3) A high-IQ person is certainly capable of learning Game quickly, but quite often manages not to.
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Whiskey, Rum,
Whiskey I’ve read your recent essay on the Obama Economy nd how its likely to effect White Men and I agree pretty much w/everythin you wrote. I have a major concern in this area for one simple reason-guys like you are still the only real game in town. You’re the biggest demo group, and still hold all or at least most of the cards when it comes to actually getting things done in society. It is folly for the other side that coalition you mentioned, to think they can actually getaway with and pull off what they’re apparently doing. Just doesn’t make sense, nor do we want a nation full of Angry White Guys. Not good for anu of us.
And good point about the “faith of our fathers”. In that respect we share much in common.
Rum, what you noted wrt Summers even highlights my point even more-is someone who can’t even take such a comment w/o fleeing the room in tears really qualified to occupy some of the highest positions in academia and the sciences? I mean, are we serious? White Women may be able to have the GPA and get the test scores, but clearly many of them lack the temperment needed to engage in such pursuits. And that is the point, we deliberately over look these very important things and “promote” em anyway, and that I maintain is just as bad as the raw deal-and it IS raw deal-that Ricci & Co. are getting now. No difference.
O
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White Women may be able to have the GPA and get the test scores, but clearly many of them lack the temperment needed to engage in such pursuits.
Nancy Hopkins would get her ass handed to her — on every level — by any of the LDR nurses I have a pleasure of seeing in action as we speak.
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god DAMN could you all hurl yourselves at the feet of an attention whore that isn’t going to bang any of you any harder? bhetti–go get a meatspace boyfriend for christ’s sake
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contrarian
Have you ever been in, or even tried to form, a relationship with a woman?
As you pointed out, one man found a good woman without game. So are you going to actually try? Actually go out into the real world and interact with real women? We now know that such a woman exists so you have no excuse.
You could make a positive contribution by going out and non-gaming women and then report back, describe your successes and your failures. Because if you want to convince us (as compared to your current masturbatory trolling) that would be the way. One thing is certain; you will not find your quality woman hiding behind a keyboard.
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Default User
I’ve always known such women exist, since it is so self-evident. As for my “excuses,” there still aren’t any Asian women where I live. And where did you get the idea that I’m not presently in the real world and not interacting with real women?
First people are adamandant about insisting that you absolutely cannot get women without game, and when Hope says that his boyfriend didn’t use game everyone just accepts it as true, but now I am required to go out and do field studies to prove that there are women who can be had without game. If you accept Hope’s story, what is there left to prove? Not that it really matters what Hope said, since it is plainly obvious that game isn’t necessary. Only a fanatic or an idiot would think otherwise.
I have no interest in one night stands or casual relationships, so it makes no difference to me whether or not game is effective or necessary for those purposes, and I’m certainly not going to to attempt to pick up women so I can prove to the Internets something they already know, or claim to know.
I will stop being a troll as soon as you stop being a child molester.
(See what I did there?)
Said the anonymous Internet poster hiding behind a keyboard.
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contrarian
Hope is one woman relating her story. It would be nice to hear a man relate his non-game experience. While we spend a lot of time discussing theories, we do also talk about and listen to experience.
This is not necessarily about one-night stands, if you want to meet that one special woman you still have to go through some form of “courting.” In trying to meet her, you will probably have to meet many who are not the one. You will certainly have successes and failures. You will learn what you like and dislike about women and what they like and dislike about you. Discussing this can help you and can help others.
I got the idea that you are not interacting with women because you have a highly idealized idea of the perfect woman and you never discuss actual experience.
[you may have, but I do not remember seen it]
It is true that I am (right now) hiding behind a keyboard, but I have had real life experience with women. I have had some success and some crushing defeats. My experience is that I have done better with the application of game (mindfulness of how I present myself) than without it (so-called be myself). The thing is, that even with game I am still me. I have the same humor, the same interests, and the same vulnerabilities. She wears her most flattering clothes; I wear my most flattering personality. So maybe we are playing games, but games are meant to be fun.
If you want to gain respect here, if you want to convince us of the errors of our ways, the discussing your experience would be a good start.
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@bhetti (long ago) – yeah, I meant the good bits and not the bad ones. come to think of it, the stories of all the legendary lovers (Tristan and Isolde, Daphins and Chloe, Bonnie and Clyde, Sid and Nancy, etc.) all ended badly. (Lesson there?)
@obs – totally agreed, spot on as usual.
@tood – agreed, good points. another main reason is that much of game takes place on an emotional level, on the ability to understand women’s emotional states and calibrate accordingly. And high-IQ guys aren’t used to (or are unable to) thinking this way. They’re all right-brain and no left brain. (Or is it the other way around…?) The geeky acronyms (IOI, DHV, etc.) are just proxies for states of interaction which are laced with emotion, context, etc.
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contrarian: You may leave these guys to their delusions for you have done your best, God speed.
lurking/hurking: But non-meatspace boyfriends are just so much more fun in this betatised world. Anyway, I think both parties can tone it down a little.
Welmer: You know, I’ve only been hearing the mention of female game lately. I only remember vaguely a reference to it ages ago, which involved dismissing it as not real and talking about looks. If it exists, then I may be a ‘natural’ because I certainly don’t calculate it. I find it really difficult to process how thoroughly a female can actually control a man and don’t give credit to the ‘they can bring an empire down to its knees’ theories and if they were true, I certainly didn’t think they applied to me.
But if I look back, I can certainly see the impulse of gaining affection from men (and this impulse makes evopsych sense: you want a man to be invested in you so that he’d look after you.) I’d be shy and quiet with the more conservative Arabs but in contrast deliberately provoked my Irish teachers with doubting, tangential questions or correcting their spelling with a healthy dose of insolence. Men generally seemed to like me, if think me occasionally insane (who wouldn’t?). I thought it was platonic. I’m not sure how much is deception and dissembling. It’s interesting you talk about female game in the way women don’t like male game.
Still: I’ve only consciously made that much of an effort with my looks recently, which was reportedly where attraction’s supposed to lie.
Whatever I do, they seem to enjoy it and it looked like harmless fun. Surely no one harbours any illusions of what they can get out of me and I didn’t promise anyone pics if they sweet-talked me right. It was a one man impulsive experiment that I’m not planning to repeat. I am certainly playing favourites, but not to any malicious purpose I can think of or preplanned. I don’t expect anyone to come to my rescue, although I should’ve seen I’d thrown down a challenge for someone to in the way I reacted. I’m learning the mindset that will make sure I’m not bothered.
No matter what I say: a sensible life policy is to trust no one, especially those who ask you to rather than demonstrate why. But it’s not always worth it being sensible, is it?
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maurice: lessons:
— Humans cannot suspend disbelief and have trouble believing in the concept of love as forever. I can’t stand them and prefer the romance novels. Although you didn’t mention it, Romeo and Juliet was a joke if we’re talking about love. We really couldn’t believe they’d last, so they get killed off and ta-da, legend. It’s a shortcut to make it believable and it’s much harder to pull of a happy ending.
— Human/People who decide what makes a legend can think that suffering means its profound. There’s some truth to it but in this context: Give me a break.
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Possible extra lesson:
— People want to believe they’ve fallen in love and creating an angst-filled story works much better to appeal to that. Thus: teenagers, bad poetry and all the posturing around breakups.
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Obsidian, Whiskey, Rum, etc.
White men supported affirmative action for white women over black men starting in the 1980s.
The reason they did this was it brought two incomes into middle class families, creating the McMansion Society we now have.
But the unfortunate consequence of this was further divided the gap between the rich and poor. Upper middle class “power couples” became the norm, and families that just had the man working were relegated to lower middle class status by default.
Now white men are finding themselves like black men, not going to college and increasingly shut out of the job market. White guys might have done better to support black men, not girl power.
I’ve spent decades working in offices, and I’ve never come across black guys and white guys having problems with each other, racially speaking. Yet I constantly see male-female friction. Just an observation.
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Contraian,
>The man cheated which prompted the woman to
>get a divorce. The man is at fault.
a tad simplistic?
I cannot know for certain because I’m not some fairy-tale invisible omniscient deity in the sky who will ultimately pass judgement on sinners (nor do I believe in such superstitious filth). But I’d be willing to bet, given the chicks nuttiness and inability to socially function normally afterwards, that she’s mostly (90%+) to blame for his cheating even though he is a bit of a fuckwad.
Perhaps the real assessment of “fault” should be answering the hypothetical question of whether or not he would have cheated had he happen to marry someone else who didn’t turn so damn frigidly cunty on him. It happened to me.
Besides if a woman marries “up” (and what woman doesn’t) and doesn’t perform pro-active ball drainage, the results are inevitable.
By the way, if you have yellow fever you should get a job that takes you abroad to Schenzen or something. You could probably have a lot of fun there.
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Bhetti
Curiosity:
Having played lame-ass, 70s throwback DJ this weekend, what kind of music do you listen to?
After you qualify, what are you going to do (GP, specialty, private/NHS)? Again, just curious, don’t answer if you feel it is too personal (like you would anyway).
PS:
I love the plant in the photo you linked above. That is so you. At least the prickly you that you like to project to the world (not the fun/flirty Bhetti we know).
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Default User
Do you seriously think that only PUAs or extremely high status men are able to get women?
This might apply to me if I lived in, say, Japan. But I don’t.
There’s really no reason for me to settle for anything less than ideal or near-ideal. It’s not like I need to have a girlfriend, and there are plenty of advantages to being alone.
I see nothing fun about dating a low quality woman who doesn’t even really care about me.
JerrDog
Based on the information provided, no.
–
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contrarian
Obviously not. Hence the call for your (non PUA) experience.
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Bhetti–
Oh dear. Is that a hint, or more like a steam powered horn blast?
As a favored experiment though, I’m not sure that’s in my nature. In fact I’m rather sure it isn’t.
Unless you get very cruel. Hey, that might be fun to play with too!
Anyway, why? So lurker doesn’t get too jealous? There are others we’ve been entertaining baby! Think of them, think of humanity!! Hell, you’ve even been called Héloïse to my Abelard! (Are there Islamic nuns?) We have our public now Bhetti! Think of them! Think of them!
Myself, I’m more worried about performance anxiety. (Not really.) Oh, just be yourself, no worries. That’s fine with me.
Alright, studiously toning it down, starting now. Now I said!! No more flirting for me. All serious business here.
Carry on.
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doug1, Bhetti, lurking and hurking, et al
What is the problem with e-flirting? Just like in real life it is fun. Just like in real life flirting is often most fun when there is no hope or expectation of anything else (giving you the safety to be brave).
What is flirting? It is a game where each participant offers vague hints of possible attraction. Those hints are offered in an as ambiguous manner as possible. This leaves everyone with plausible deniability if anyone changes his or her mind. In many cases there is no aim of a pickup or relationship. It is the same thing here.
Great things a man can do for a woman
1- Make her laugh
2- Bring out her feminine girly side.
3- Bring out her flirty, cheeky side.
4- Make her cry (in a good way: by touching her heart, not by cruelty)
5- Bring out her earthy, sexy, and sensuous side.
Great guys that we are here, we like to try for the first three (improving the lives of the female posters). We know that the last will never happen, and the fourth is very difficult.
We can look at this as flirting practice for the real world. A bit like kittens and puppies pretend fighting to train them for the real world.
There endeth Sunday’s (sappy) sermon.
[I will now pass around the collection plate – no coins please]
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doug1
There is no cure for a limp Internet connection. It is a tragedy that effects up to 30 percent of all households. Many suffer without complaint, assuming that it is just how things are.
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lol default you realize you can get a plane ticket almost anywhere in the world for under 1600 right.
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The world is actually a small place now.
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No, contrarian, my post was mainly to address other guys here. And no, I don’t consider myself an “alpha” ATM. More like an omega. I seriously can’t handle a woman now, and probably won’t be able to for a while longer. After what my ex put me through – false allegations, SWAT team, investigations and all – I feel physically unsafe around women. I haven’t been myself for about a year.
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Gunslingergregi
What made you mention that?
…And where would you recomend?
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default user, there is nothing wrong with it. it’s just making the comments on my favorite blog dull like obsidian’s race talk does. also, watching males on a PUA site fall all over themselves over e-bitches is a little gross–why would a man even talk to a woman that isn’t going to bang him?
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Just sayin whats the big deal you find someone you click with on a blog why not hook up. People limit themselves. Talking like we in grade school or some shit lol In adult land you can travel. he he he
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Gunny: You people with nice passports, you view the world so differently. You people with jobs, you also view the world so differently.
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I’ll always view it differently apparently but I want to convert some dangit lol
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whiskey
Obsidian –
First, though I am over-degreed and over-credentialed, like a lot of guys I know I’m working-class in attitudes, origins, and identity. I know quite a lot of folks with the same education but identity as working class. Identity is usually formed by who/what your father was.
Please explain what you mean by “over-degreed and over-credentialed.” Since you like to develop theories based on demographic data, are you a statistician of some kind?
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Gunslinger
I reckon there would be less e-flirting if any of the ladies actually expected us to turn up on their doorstep.
However, I could always head to England to indulge in that “free” healthcare.
[on her morning rounds]
And now Doctor Bhetti, the next patient is a Mr. De Fault…
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Well default if you haven’t noticed all the ladies tend to place there email out in the open so it is not like you would have to show up on doorstep. You would not have set it up on the blog. lol
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Bhetti
Jayzus and begorrah. ‘Tis not him. You, woman, are the one that is Trouble, Trouble with a Capital T
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Now Mr. De Fault, inducing a coma with some stolen insulin just to see me is beta.
Say No To Beta: IT KILLS.
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Bhetti
No Bhetti it does not kill, but you might (we know what happens luckless beta males that fall into you grasp…
I would of course come up with an Alpha illness (Priapism?). 😉
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Def probably knows where my doorstep is with his H4xx0rz skills.
Saying No to Betas: IT ALSO KILLS.
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@bhetti – you changed your link. you are very pretty. don’t deny your love for doug. Also, sorry I forgot R&J – silly of me. yoru answers about the tragic lover of literature was good, but … they are the ones that are pased down through the ages. how does that square with your love of romance novels,. the chieesiest of literary genres?
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I’m so not playing the ‘what medical illness is alpha?’ game.
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doug1
“If you’re tempted, resist. Have her move in with you first, to try things out.”
Do NOT have her move in. EVER.
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maurice: The problem is its female. Jane Austen and the Brontes has been passed down too. Fairytales are passed down too, in their happy ending form. I’m sure there’re older examples. It’s viewing them as cheesy (with the feminine voice) therefore inferior that’s the problem and gets some feminists going ‘this is pro-patriarchy!’ and others saying ’embrace it, it is anti-patriarchy!’
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contrarian (the boring troll)
Because I was hoping I might tempt you into posting something interesting instead of the boring trolling twaddle that you normally post.
It seems Lurker is correct. You are nothing more than a boring useless troll. A waste of bandwidth, a waste of screen space, and likely a real-life waste of skin. You have nothing to add here, your contributions are a net negative. We are all worse off for reading them, and poorer for spending any time responding.
Happy trolling, troll boy.
Over and out.
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good point about fairy tales, but they are for children, not adults. (same as the truly horrifying, when you think about it, childrens’ fables of the Brothers Grimm.) i guess the point about the tragic lovers is that it’s a trope which is recognized and repeats down the ages. Not like Austen etc. which is an early modern version of chick-lit, which is what the romance novels are cheap descended version of. not judging, just saying. but it lacks the ancient pedigree of the star-crossed lovers.
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That is why to have the true legend fairy tail it has to be love even after death then no matter what happens in this life it is still a happy ending.
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The ‘Alpha of the Month’ made two mistakes :
1) Of course, returning to the US at all.
2) This is less obvious, but he clearly learned nothing from living in Indonesia. Indonesia is the world’s largest Muslim country, and while it is quite moderate relative to Saudi Arabia, it still is an Islamic country.
He should have CONVERTED TO ISLAM. That way, he can get some Islamic groups in the US to try and get him out of his alimony burden by saying it is ‘un-Islamic’.
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Why I tell my woman even after we are dead I’ll still be cuddling with her he he he
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He prob ran out of money. Why you need to find a base income to work with.
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RJS Wrote :
“Have the business you own or your employer hire and pay your trust (which you control) for your services, ”
Is this possible, if you are employed by a major corporation?
What about the benefits (health benefits, etc.)? Those still go onto your social security number.
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Older examples: Princess Bride (which was a translation), from the man himself who brought us R&J: Titiana & Oberon plus some other comedies of his if I remember correctly. This is where I wish I paid more attention to ye olde literature. Did Chaucer do non-tragic?
Romance as now pro-progressive (apparently, as well as everything) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hillary-rettig/the-eroticization-of-equa_b_201059.html
I really don’t think Austen invented love stories with happy endings as popular or legendary or a trope out of a vacuum devoid of this.
I’m not sure what you mean by chick-lit because the definition I know is a certain kind of women’s fiction, which has been recently spawned, around the Sex & the City generation. It can occasionally overlap with romance novels. Romance novels are older than it. Saying ‘not judging’ doesn’t actually invalidate if you do, but at least it declares an intent not to. I could easily say Shakespeare is a cheap descended version of Plato, especially with his sensationalism and plagiarism. When that’s such a silly label, because he did so much for the English language.
Tood: http://infidelsarecool.com/2008/05/07/maryland-supreme-court-cant-use-islam-excuse-to-escape-alimony/
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Everybody, repeat: Contrarian, you are wrong. You are a troll.
Why do you even engage with that Omega? Ignore ‘him’.
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Re: pic on my blog. That’s clearly not my pic (I mean, where’s my burqa?).
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Not only are you a troll but pretending to be another troll, whom I loved so dearly (R&J STYLE).
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Obsidian,
It’s not that White women have complete parity with White men, but that they are more closely matched to White men then NAMs. White women differ from White men by having a narrower IQ standard deviation
which means that men more heavily populate the outlying regions of both very high and very low intelligence. Larry Summers explained how this would impact the numbers of women in elite institutions like the Ivies where most professors in most the hard sciences and engineering will be at least three standard deviations above the norm, with most being more like 3.5 or 4 above. A similar effect happens with Jews where because of their higher average IQ of around 110, they have very disproportionate numbers, like around 20+%, for the upper reaches above 160 IQ, in spite of being around 2% of the population. Note that very few people are near these levels of IQ, like 1 in several thousand. I’ve seen different discussions of this with most saying that very high IQ is not distributed normally (i.e. with a Gaussian distribution), but instead more people score highly compared to the expected normal distribution.
As far as the response to Larry Summers, I think the vast majority of HBDers were completely on his side because he articulated one of their standard positions from on-high in our “civil society”, which then responded by rejecting the traditional values of academic freedom, freedom of speech and free inquiry in favor of maintaining the leftist, total equality groupthink (big surprise).
Could you point out any the HBDers that favored Summer’s attackers because I don’t know of any? All the ones I know of applauded his courageous actions.
And almost no one within “civil society” will confront the racial IQ difference publicly because they can see what happens to people like famous, brilliant and highly-respected scientific authorities like DNA-co-discovering, Nobel-prize winning, James Watson when he challenged the groupthink, i.e. they’re cast out of “civil society” and forced to renounce their beliefs and grovel obsequiously if they want a chance at “rehabilitation”. So I know of NO university presidents willing to publicly make the analogous argument Summers made for Black-White academic disparities, i.e. the cone of silence reigns.
I’ve also heard that Black affirmative action tends to help the already elite segment of the Black community more than the lower echelons. There is stratification within the Black community just like among Whites, e.g. Unitarians and Episcopalians are statistically more intelligent, wealthier, powerful, per capita, compared to other segments, like working class Christian traditionalists, etc.
As far as Ricci and blue collar workers, while SWPLs typically have disdain for working class and blue collar people, I think that is a wrong-headed attitude and actually contradictory with their supposedly caring attitude toward other groups they consider disadvantaged. I think we need to revitalize our manufacturing sector for many reasons, including to provide high quality, skill and wage jobs for average blue collar workers. One great mistake of modern America is embracing a phony economics that has let the elites legally loot our companies to give themselves massive compensation while they marginalize our working and middle class workers, e.g. through massive legal and illegal immigration, outsourcing, offshoring, insourcing, running 800 billion dollar per year trade deficits, socializing costs while privatizing profits (just look the the giant bailouts as the latest egregious example), etc. We need to place human values above purely economic considerations (not that you can ignore economics, but it must be below larger questions, like what core values define our country, cui bono, etc).
No matter what measures of status a person adopts, there will almost always be other people above him or her, so it seems absurd to get too wrapped up in feelings of superiority towards those below. It seems to me a healthy society would have room for all sorts of people with different values and interests without forcing everybody into a single mold. Ideally we’d build a civil society where everybody could coexist reasonably harmoniously, including all the different racial, ethnic, cultural, class and other distinctions. Unfortunately, that’s not the path we’re on.
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Default User
It was amusing, but not very funny. Sorry. 😛
He also jokes a lot, and he often likes to be the butt of jokes. The first time we met, he flirted with me in a deliberately horrible way, which turned me off and made me assume he was just one of those guys who flirts with every girl. I carried this assumption for a while before we started getting closer.
Later when I told him about what I initially thought of him, he said, “Yeah, my stupid flirting… I like keeping things light-hearted. I think the ‘game’ is so silly that I like to make an abberation of it as a sort of ‘joke on me.'” He also said that he had a good intuition about me, but he was sufficiently cynical that he didn’t expect much.
I think you and everyone else just want to keep giving contrarian a hard time. Though, he also seems to invite it. And you are right. I am just one person — a sample size of one, as people liked to tell me. I’m not trying to make generalizations based on my experience, but I have found “hope,” too.
contarian
My guy said something very similar. He said he was not looking to date at all and had come to the point where he was fine with being alone for the rest of his life (!). And he was single for three years, so he obviously meant what he said. I kept talking to him because he was extremely interesting (and I particularly found his voice and attitude attractive). In a way, I kind of came onto him rather than the other way around. With my other relationships, I was usually the one being “pursued,” but this time I actually initiated it and pushed it onward. I had to, because he wasn’t “looking.”
My advice to you, contrarian, if you will have it. It is true — one does not need to be in a relationship. I think it’s a good idea to develop the self first and become a “whole” person before trying to bring someone else into one’s life. There are lots of great things one can accomplish without a girlfriend/boyfriend or spouse. Letting go of neediness is a very crucial step towards becoming self-actualized, and there’s no need to justify this position.
However, there is a profound sadness in being lonely and being alone. There might be a “difference” between the two, but the difference is in truth very small.
From this article:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/03/30/090330fa_fact_gawande?printable=true
“Human beings are social creatures. We are social not just in the trivial sense that we like company, and not just in the obvious sense that we each depend on others. We are social in a more elemental way: simply to exist as a normal human being requires interaction with other people. Without sustained social interaction, the human brain may become as impaired as one that has incurred a traumatic injury.”
I was an outcast in school, and I was very lonely after I moved here from a different country. A new culture, a new langauge that I didn’t understand or speak, and no friends. I was left home all by myself at 10 years of age, and that intense isolation made me less able to fit in. Even though I had a lot of friends in China, here I felt different, rejected, withdrawn, and consequently I was less desirable. I did not fit into the conventional social groups, but I found a sort of solace with other nerdy types.
Perhaps you are not yet ready to meet women, but there is no reason why you shouldn’t participate in some meaningful activity that lets you meet more people in general.
That was not necessary. There is a real person behind each of these glowing screens, a person with flesh and soul, with real emotions and issues and wounds that we sometimes cannot know or see. Just because this is the Internet, and text is the most “impersonal” type of interaction, does not mean that we should disregard this human truth. So-called “trolls” might be using the Internet as a form of social interaction, and even though their interactions can be confrontational and argumentative, it is in truth a subtle signal for help. Remember when Welmer lashed out at the girls here? He was in pain from being kept from his children.
I used to get upset at negativity and insults online, but now I understand and accept the pain behind those words. I want to try to heal these pains, but I am just one person. All I can do is not reciprocate and send more pain out. There is so much pain in the world… there is no need to add to it.
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Bhetti
LoL. My lips are sealed. As you know. ygm.
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maurice wrote:
good point about fairy tales, but they are for children, not adults. (same as the truly horrifying, when you think about it, childrens’ fables of the Brothers Grimm.)
The Brother’s Grim actually hopelessly Bowderlized the German Fairy tales that they copied. Then they Bowderlized them again.
This leads to incongruities like Rapunzel, after her banishment from the tower, living with the twins she bore.
No mention is made how THAT happened, though. Maybe Rapunzel doesn’t remember. Ahem.
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bad-spirited: him picking on wierd specifics (fisking) & stopping short of saying all women are bad quality.
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I am sorry to hear that. Is your relative alright? Sometimes, people are unable to keep from lashing out, especially when certain things “trigger” their emotional buttons. People often feel justified in forwarding the pain onward in these cases.
But just know that living with love, compassion and understanding, you can forgive these transgressions and transmute the darkness with light. Know that for some people, pain is a lesson… one day they, too, will graduate.
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doug: My webresearch skills have failed me. What does ygm mean, if it is not a typo: You get me?
You can say anything you want, as long as I’m not in-real-life identifiable. (should it bother me if you do?)
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Hope–
See why I call you a sweetheart?
Me, me, me. What about me? Did I mention me? He lashed out at me as well or maybe even more. What, I’m a man so I don’t count? I’m all rough and tough?
Actually, it didn’t much bother me at the time, and it didn’t whatsoever when he spilled about his battles with his ex wife just to see his kids. Sure it would have been stronger if that hadn’t submerged him, but I can sure see how dark that would feel.
Earlier, before I became distracted by the urge to flirt with Bhetti, that evil temptress (and then doing some real life stuff including sweety stuff), I was ruminating about pointing out to Default (and Contrarian who’d be listening in) that in a way your guy DOES have some natural game. He wasn’t needily chasing after you (or worse fruitlessly and ineffectually after every girl that passes in front of him). Instead he’s just living his own life in a way that to YOU, with your interests and values, demonstrates lots of value.
Look at it this way (Default, you listening?), game teaches guys how to lure girls, even girls they approach, to partly emotionally chase after them, and certainly to not be supplicants at a girl’s doorstep. You can’t be a high volume lothario by not seeing girls for three year stretches, but by not needily chasing where there’s no interest or not yet any interest, you can attract a quality girl when she comes along. Like you Hope.
Your guy wasn’t following and he wasn’t needy. He may not be leading some big pack, but that’s not your thing or attraction to men either. His being independent and kind of a lone wolf is.
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Bhetti
You Got Mail. (I was trying to be subtle. Though nothing of that nature get’s by Default.)
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Hope,
Your words remind me of something inspirational that Stan Getz, one of the great jazz saxophonists, once said:
Source: The liner notes of Cafe Montmartre.
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If that blog pic isn’t of Bhetti, and I’m not saying one way or another, she does look just as hot or hotter, only thinner. It does give an idea.
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Hope: Don’t worry about it, they’re mostly ok for now. It’s life and not something I want to go on about.
I don’t believe in hate or acting on revenge to any large extent. I do believe in actions that have a function: a deterrent, an appropriate consequence to an inappropriate action. These two mesh but being able to cleanse yourself of poisonous feelings is healthy.
Negative consequence is an important part of learning, and sometimes, you’re the one who has to provide it.
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Hope
[quiet crushed little voice] but… but… you are an NF. You are supposed to be… nice.
Ha! Hope, putting the “J” back in NFJ
🙂
Actually, your response is as I expected. I figured that you would see it as somehow shallow or lame (as indeed it was). But at least I got a smiley out of you. The thing is, such humor is not a put-on. That is my humor, the real me. So it shows that it takes all types.
Perhaps I will try anti-game game to see how it works. I will have to study your previous entry to figure it out, but it sounds worth a try (ahh hell, there I go again with my “humor.” See, I can’t help it.)
I am very aware that there are real people behind screen names. My response was a bit harsh, perhaps. I, and others, have tried to draw contrarian out and received fairly standard “game is not needed” replies. If you look around, you will see that most here are generous and encouraging to other posters (e.g., David Alexander). These posters receive those responses because they engage in some kind of dialogue. Although I give a lot of jokey responses, I rarely “lash out.” Contrarian’s lack of real response or discussion is a waste of the good will that is here. That post was my way of saying that I will no longer spend time with him. Others (including yourself) may, I hope they have success.
Contrarian
To make up for my meanness here is a song that shows how we can live without another but having that someone is so much better.
PS:
Hope, you mentioned coincidence. I just happened to hear that song earlier. I thought it apt for this conversation.
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PS :
Scroll down for video.
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Arrows–
No.
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doug1
I never listen, that my problem (I thought we called that asshole/aloof game). 😉
Maybe I do need to recalibrate my humor box. My “dissection” of Mr. Hope’s game was entirely as a joke.
All that effort and what did it get me? One smiley. As they say: “Epic Fail.” 😀
BTW: Plenty of things of that nature get by me. Seeing my name, now that is likely to catch my eye.
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Default User
Learning to really listen to girls is a very good game skill to develop. Though there are different styles. That’s part of mine.
Though understand, listen doesn’t mean listen to what they say. It means listen to what they mean. Listen to their id and ego, not their rational explanatory superego, concerning emotional or motivational things. I.e. what attracts them, what is working, and what makes them tick.
Listen and look for what’s working with them in other words, either when you’re doing it or someone else is.
Of course what makes Hope tick and what makes LILGRL tick, both East Asians in ethnicity though both with a lot of American cultural influence, is very different. Though there are a few similarities too. (Born of both of them standing outside American culture to some degree and looking in with intimate knowledge, but doing some picking and choosing, rather than simply falling into one mainstream political or cultural camp or another.)
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Well, Doug, maybe you should check up on what happened to Abelard.
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doug1
OK I really, really need to bring that humor circuit to the shop.
What you describe is closer to my manner. That is I do listen and figure out what makes her tick. I do not run routines (even if I could remember them).
And asshole game for me just means they get the sharp end of my humor.
[Long before I ever heard of something called “game,” I always answered “backchat” with humor. Today we would call that passing shit-tests.]
From my experience the “nerd girl” type seems much more common amongst Asians. I wonder if that is the Asian culture or the effect of being the outsider.
For sure Hope and LILGRL are very different. I did not really follow LILGRL’s entries, but my impression was she was more… er… pragmatic.
Actually LILGRL reminds me of one terrible date I had. The only time I have ever walked out on a date.
[Although the comparison is probably unfair to LILGRL]
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If any of you is interested, there is a polyandry society in the Himalayas… this 30 minutes video talked about them…
It fascinates me because of the evolution of game in such a society. Cross-cultural game references always interests me.
http://www.blinkx.com/video/tribal-sex-marriage-pure-love-pure-sex-2008/Bs7plkJOhK61TRAApV_XDA
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Glengary–
Or Heloise.
Me not he, and we not they, and this not be the early Middle Ages.
We have other perils, but different ones, for different things.
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Bhetti, if you’re too tender to handle being flamed, then why are you here?
This isn’t exactly a gentleman’s ball, after all…
My grandpa, who worked on ships (destroyers and such) during WWII, once told me a story about a woman who was taking the bus to her “Rosie the Riveter” job. The bus was full, so she looked around at all the men sitting down, then whined: “won’t somebody give up his seat for a lady?” One of the other workers on the bus looked her right in the eye and asked: “you’ve got a man’s job, don’t you?” She nodded, and he simply said “then you can stand like a man.”
It’s the same with you. Don’t expect any privileges here for being a woman — you’ve got more than enough elsewhere.
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LILGRL
Just don’t let it go to your head. 😉
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@ Default
“Just don’t let it go to your head. ;)”
Don’t worry, I’ve got the other 6,769,999,999 people to keep me grounded.
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The fact is that LILGRL, who’s a hottie, was a generous flirter around here when she decided to go that way one evening, starting out by becoming all open about a bunch of things.
She was gentile and humorous in how she fended off even crude “admit you’re hot for me” kinds of flirting from what soon became a swarm of 5 or 6 guys at once, and made most (all?) of the guys who attempted or “practiced” on her have fun and feel good.
That’s both real skillful and sweet. She says she likes win win and being nice – “really I do”.
Well, if you aren’t trying to beat her up, it seems to me on the evidence so far, that’s pretty undeniable.
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In male-female relations, women are naturally pragmatists, and men are naturally romantics. You know this.
It’s only when “women” like FeministX put that pragmatism into explicit terms that we get freaked out.
Speaking of, does anyone else get the impression that FeministX is the sort of weird woman who would, like, name her daughter “Fata Morgana” and chant incantations to help her landa husband, despite her ostensibly 100% pragmatic exterior?
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LILGRL
Ya see, you are a pragmatist.
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doug1
Did someone say she was Jewish?
[da da tsssh]
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@Default, 87
“Ya see, you are a pragmatist.”
Didn’t say I wasn’t…
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Welmer: Nope, I was fine, which was why I didn’t bring it up then. Was just making a point about balance here and idealism.
If it’s wrong, it’s wrong: being in pain doesn’t justify it or justify people not taking actions to correcting the behaviour. That is talking about in general and not you in specific, which I will try not to bring it up again.
I made LILGRL lol. My game owns you all.
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LILGRL
This is better that you expected. Three people (including yourself) now believe in your pragmatism.
Hope, contrarian
See how we encourage people here.
😉
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Bhetti said:
But we already knew that.
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doug1
“The fact is that LILGRL, who’s a hottie…”
No. She’s pretty much average. (But sort of weird looking). Femx is way better looking and she’s not exactly hot herself.
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Steve Johnson
Cough. Sputter.
Though make no mistake. My forum lust remains focused on Bhetti.
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>He should have CONVERTED TO ISLAM. That way, he can >get some Islamic groups in the US to try and get him
>out of his alimony burden by saying it is ‘un-Islamic’.
first: DISCLAIMER – everyone I actually know who is a muslim (and there are hundreds) is actually pretty cool.
I hope this bullshit never holds sway here in US courts. Islamic law is even shittier than many of the the other mythological fairy tale non-thinking systems that pollute our world like virgin-mary bullshit, gaia-worship, and PC feminism. I’d like to see the “Grey lady” regularly shits on these rag heads just as much as it shits on red necks for a change.
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OK the weekend is coming to the end. Indeed it is already over for some.
Time for one last bit of silliness.
First thing: I need to apologize for that sappy video of that sappy 10cc song posted up thread. I know it was posted as a joke, but what was I thinking? To ensure that I do not become a Beta of the Month nominee I created version of the same song with some buddies. This is how real gamers would perform 10cc – I am Not In Love
It is or soon will be Monday, Blue Monday
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Def: Resend, plz.
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Default —
Even I think you’re kinda adorable.
Which is —- disturbing.
With just a bit of tweek you could have mean game. Of a sort. Not the macho sort. Kind of a hipster, creative geek sort.
Creatively joke and entice like you do. But then HOLD BACK. Tease her to ask instead of inundating her with your output.
It all goes to viscerally sending neediness instead of being in demand because of your awesomeness, what you can do.
Wait, what? Am I schooling you to resume having success with Bhetti????
What the hell is wrong with me?
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LILGRL said:
In fact, as the quote you’ve procured is one where I am basically agreeing with two other male posters, it would seem that you’re singling me out because I’m female.
You can call me an evil bitch-beater if you like, LILGRL. I did ask Whiskey about his ‘Do Nothing’ post on cuckolding. I asked if he even HAD boundaries.
I’ll ask it again if you like. Whiskey, do you have any boundaries on a woman’s behavior that will actually provoke a response?
And here LILGRL repeats what I said she believed again:
Because even if I were to go out of my way specifically to make his life suck — well, not only is that kind of childish, but it’s also a pretty blatant display of how much his hurting me has affected my life.
But LILGRL used a sneaky rhetorical device. How clever.
I’m glad you know how to push men’s ‘I-am-a-good-girl’ buttons, LILGRL. Good for you.
87 wrote:
In male-female relations, women are naturally pragmatists, and men are naturally romantics. You know this.
It’s only when “women” like FeministX put that pragmatism into explicit terms that we get freaked out.
How DO you carry that huge pedestal around, 87? Doesn’t it hurt your back a little?
I mean, man, think about your old age. You are ruining your knees.
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doug1
Sneaky fucker game. Gets them all the time. 😉
Interesting thanks.
I never really thought of my online “presentation.” I probably should give it more care. It is more a case of getting into a fun zone (I enjoy the intellectual stuff, but sometimes need a break). One idea leads to the next and I am off.
Looking like a needy, over eager puppy is not my aim (even online). To screw up your game in a blog devoted to game. Not good, not good at all.
I will be careful that I don’t bring that to the real world. As you said the over eager thing is a killer.
I would say more, but you will just have to wait…
Again Doug, thanks for the feedback.
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725 comments? Goddamn people, find a message board.
Better yet, go outside.
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Comment_Doesn’t_Understand_Context_Clues:
How DO you carry that huge pedestal around, 87? Doesn’t it hurt your back a little?
Pedestal?
Dude. This is a fundamental and obvious truth.
Women want to date, fuck, and marry “up”. We don’t.
Women look for providers. We don’t.
Women rape us in divorce court and push for laws that accomplish this. We don’t do the reverse.
This dichotomy is actually something that FemX has observed accurately, amidst her attention-whoring.
—
Men pretty much look for youth and beauty. Once upon a time, that was a practical concern, too, but the link between youthful beauty and low infant mortality is, in this day of civilization, so slight and remote that it’s pretty much reserved for academic discussion.
—
Could you be any better at taking everything, said by everyone, MASSIVELY out of context?
You’re getting almost as bad as contrarian.
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87, I think he was implying that you have to put women on a pedestal to be shocked by FeministX’s revelations.
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87, I think he was implying that you have to put women on a pedestal to be shocked by FeministX’s revelations.
Clearly.
I suppose he may have misinterpreted “we get freaked out” as meaning that I’m freaked out, but seriously, people, I shouldn’t have to fucking spell this out in literal terms.
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You know, that dude looks a lot like Boyd Rice.
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It’s mean to rip people apart, so I deleted my post after writing it.
I’ll instead simply observe that every single one of the ‘profound truths’ that 87 has posted:
87 said:
Women want to date, fuck, and marry “up”. We don’t.
Women look for providers. We don’t.
Women rape us in divorce court and push for laws that accomplish this. We don’t do the reverse.
Men pretty much look for youth and beauty.
Is pretty much standard pop culture. The kind o thing you’d expect most 20 year olds to agree with.
Unless one believes that no men in America place women on pedestals, 87 agreement with most men in America means little.
In any case, his initial reaction to my post on LILGRL pretty much proves he had her on a pedestal.
There, that was remarkably calm. Breath in, breath out.
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Scotch Fiend,
You’re right, it seems that most HBDers on the web fully support Summers; I guess what I was trying to say that no one, save Pinker, came out in support of Summers. You spoke to this in your comments about the pervasive and wholly corrosive PC environment these days, I wholly agree w/you on that point.
I also think what happened to Watson was a sin and a shame, an anthema to all that the Acaemy stands for. If he can be drummed out of his job, anyone can. Sad. Very, very sad.
Again, my point is that, there is something inherent in the way Women views an sees things, in the main, that inclines them more to groupthink, shaming and the like; and this crosses over into the academic and public policy areas, well, we see the results. As you noted, we cannot have a full throated discussion, let alone debate, on race & iQ, for fear of those like yourself being “outed” and “shamed” out of their jobs, etc. That’s not the academic way, and it surely does not reflect well on high IQ Women and the like.
Going to the question of hatin’ on blue collar folk, let me be clear-many of the voices in this venue tend to identify w/the right and HBD-yet, they also tend to be white collar professionals, and if I were a betting man, I would lay good odds that the vast majority of them don’t actually spend any time among firefighters, plumbers, factory workers and the like-too low class, low IQ, etc. So it aint just the SWPLers who are guilty of snobbery, there’s a prety good bit of it right here in this forum. Its well known that I’m a lifelong member of the Blue Collar Working Class-how many other “regulars” who are the same, hmm? How many? In fact, I can tell you, as a member of said class, that virtually *nothing* mentioned or said, by the vast majority of blogs, forums and the like, directly addresses my life or others like me, Black or White, and when they do, they’re usually of the Half Sigma type, meaning that they’re often couched in “prole” terms, aka derisive. So again, there’s more than enough snobbery and hatin on Blue Collar folk to go around. And to be quite honest, I think a lot of the vitriol hurled at SWPLers is really about a kind of status war of its own.
As for the Race & IQ issue, again, my problem is that there is never any discussion about actual solutions. The only folks in the HBD community that actually deals with this is Sailer and Murray, and if we’re going to be serious about this, we’re going have to address solutions. But in order to do that we’re gonna have to tackle some major biases and attitudinal issues that supposed better and brighter folk have.
I’ll hold here, holla back
O
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Jerrdog wrote :
–I hope this bullshit never holds sway here in US courts. Islamic law is even shittier than many of the the other mythological fairy tale —
Shittier, for whom? Not for married men.
The first choice is traditional, right-wing US traditional society (which was still vibrant as recently as the 1980s). As that is irrevocably gone, the second choice is the introduction of Islam at least to the extent that they attack feminists and gays. We have already seen that feminists and faggots will steer wide and clear of criticizing even the most brutal aspects of Islam. This can be our trojan horse with which to destroy leftism.
In short :
Traditional right-wing US society > Relaxed Islam > Leftism/socialism/feminism/faggotism.
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Ob:
Its well known that I’m a lifelong member of the Blue Collar Working Class-how many other “regulars” who are the same, hmm?
*raises hand*
Lineman, right here.
And I hate SWPLs, white and NAM trash equally.
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87 said:
“Pop culture” also neglects women’s consistent penchant for hypergamy, which, if exposed, would instantly deflate the entire impetus of the argument for income equality.
Except you didn’t say that. You said ‘women date, fuck and MARRY up’. Monogamy isn’t hypergamy. All you said is ‘women want high-status men’. An ancient idea.
87 said:
For instance, “pop culture” teaches that divorce is largely caused by men walking out on their families for “younger models” or losing it all to the demon bottle, that women are largely blameless, and that women are the ones left financially in the lurch. This stereotype is so pervasive that almost ALL young people are absolutely dumbfounded at the true proportions of divorces initiated by women vs. men, let alone the truth of the resultant financial situations.
Unless they were raised in a single-parent home or know someone who was. What percentage is that?
Not that you said WHY divorces happen. This is WHAT you said:
Women rape us in divorce court and push for laws that accomplish this. We don’t do the reverse.
WHAT is not WHY. What happens in divorce court? Men get the short end of the stick. Married women know this, that’s why they divorce more often than married men. Oh, and that’s why married men DON’T divorce as often.
So…. who knows WHAT happens in divorce court?
Everybody? THAT’S RIGHT.
Oh, and pop-culture TEACHES Provider-Game to men, so they work hard.
Again, everything you actually said is pop-culture.
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@Comment_Whatever
“But LILGRL used a sneaky rhetorical device. How clever.”
Forgive me, but I don’t understand why you’re being deliberately obtuse. Is there a reason you refuse to take my remarks in context? I feel like I shouldn’t have to spell this out explicitly for you, but, apparently, I’m wrong.
Here it is: I don’t believe that men should just “lie down and take it,” in the context of the men’s rights movement and the anti-male laws out there. I think the cause needs a LOT more attention than it’s getting (which is, relative to, say, the feminist cause – none). I don’t think it’s hard to see that the feminists are PWNing you, here. (Before you take that remark out of context, I think that’s a bad thing.)
“Whiskey, do you have any boundaries on a woman’s behavior that will actually provoke a response?”
Alright, so I didn’t realize that you’d also asked whiskey about this. Not that it matters, but, just as a note – I was taking your comments in context, which is why I felt you were singling me out as a female.
I’m trying hard here to understand what you’re trying to say, exactly. Did I not give you some examples, via 87, of instances in which “revenge,” or a “provoked response” would be understandable?
I understand that you probably feel that I’m spouting nonsense and am thus unworthy of your full attention, but if you’re just going to respond to what you think I’m saying, in your head, instead of actually reading my responses…I…don’t think I can help you. Doesn’t seem an effective strategy, in my opinion.
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I’m over-degreed and over-credentialed because as an entrepreneur, I don’t need the expensive degrees. I hardly ever use stats at work so it’s nice to enjoy them when I can.
Most of the stuff I do is mind-numblngly repetitive: Selling/implementing custom website development. BORING. Naturally I have to use discretion, the people I work with, sell to, and so on are to the Left of Nancy Pelosi and Code Pink.
Obsidian — good points. Any system will be as stable as the investment the largest groups have in it. Check out Half-Sigma’s blog on the attitudes there about “Proles” and that’s the kind of attitude SWPL folks take to Blue Collar men. Definitely a lot of conflict there.
Days — Also a good point. Black/White guys of same socio-economic backgrounds tend to share the same interests: sports, etc. and have the same basic outlooks. Men/Women conflict can get quite ugly in the workplace, mostly because of different mental models each carries inside their heads about how the world works.
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Hey Obsidian,
I remember some time back you wrote that white folks do crazy things that make no sense.
I just watched this program where black African guys were kayaking down some river in Africa, wacky helmets and kayaks and such, and these huge eagles were attacking them to get fish.
I thought to myself “hmm, these Africans are as nuts as any white guys I’ve seen doing whitewater kayaking.” And even then, some African guy actually paddled his kayak up to these hippos, who could swallow him whole, and I definitely thought “I’d never do that.”
Can you explain this to me? Are Africans really that much more pragmatic? Because as a white guy, the last thing I want to do is paddle into the mouth of some humongous hippo who would eat me like a herring snack.
Personally, I think Africans are just as crazy as any extreme sports white guys here in the NW.
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Now I understand why you, too, prefer Mac or Linux. They really are better machines for these jobs, aren’t they?
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Check out Half-Sigma’s blog on the attitudes there about “Proles”
Remember, Half Sigma is high IQ Jew from Staten Island who never went as far one would suspect with his talents. He bailed on RPI and a Chemistry programme, and went to UPenn, studied economics, chased a law degree in Arizona, and an MBA, and returned to New York with nothing to show. HS aspires to become a part of the New York elite, and his inability to do so is basically the purpose of his blog. I suspect that his hatred of proles is sourced from the fact that he grew up with them (instead of in Jewish enclaves on Long Island), and the fact that they live relatively content lives with wives and kids.
One thing I’ll appreciate about HS is the prole remarks since it’s probably a better means of classifying society. The term middle class is too broad as a descriptor since it ends up including plumbers and teachers in the same class, when for all intents and purposes, while both may live in the same community, one went to college and is middle class, while the other didn’t and is high prole.
For all intents and purposes, David grew up as a prole in an area with proles, high proles, and middle class in a mostly Caribbean neighbourhood.
that’s the kind of attitude SWPL folks take to Blue Collar men
SWPL types seem to subscribe to a bizzaro white nationalism that takes a view that whites who engage in blue collar labour are too lazy to go to college, and not deserving of respect. Hence the desire and drive to shove as many NAMs into college as means of making them “white”, and thus tolerable. Immigrants have the excuse of being blue collar because they suffer from racism and oppression and are new to the country, but their children must go to college to be saved.
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Whiskey: I’m over-degreed and over-credentialed because as an entrepreneur, I don’t need the expensive degrees. I hardly ever use stats at work so it’s nice to enjoy them when I can.
I hear you man. I just have a bachelor’s degree, but, if I had to do it over again, I’d skip out on college altogether and start building a clientele straight out of high school. I could be doing exactly what I’m doing now, with essentially no diminution of my reputation, earning power, etc.
I occasionally close my eyes, think of the present value of four years’ worth of decent income between the ages of 17 and 21, and shudder.
Did you at least get some sort of ROI on your college degree, in the form of some decent networking?
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A black Jacobin, are you? I’ve got to say, I’m pretty much on the same page.
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“The first choice is traditional, right-wing US traditional society (which was still vibrant as recently as the 1980s). As that is irrevocably gone, the second choice is the introduction of Islam at least to the extent that they attack feminists and gays.”
Tood, the U.S. would revert back to traditional, right-wing conservative rule before it would ever touch islam…why are you such a fan of it and keep bringing it up if it doesn’t have a chance of succeeding here?
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comment_whatever:
Unless they were raised in a single-parent home or know someone who was. What percentage is that?
Plenty of kids being raised in single-parent homes have NO IDEA of the true circumstances of the divorce that led to their situation. NO FUCKING IDEA WHATSOEVER.
At best, it’s “he said, she said”. At worst, there is a monumental degree of parental alienation, to the point where the young and impressionable kid believes the exact opposite of what really happened.
I was one of those kids. It took me over 5 years after leaving home to finally see the matrix and realize that my father was, and is, not at all the horrible person that was described to me every day by the other parent; to question the realities of the divorce; and to realize that everything, EVERYTHING, I had been told for over fifteen years was a pack of toxic lies.
That’s almost twenty years of temps perdu that neither my father nor I will get back.
This situation is, sadly, not uncommon at all. And it’s even worse in the case of daughters, who are usually much, much, much less able to overcome shitty early-stage programming than are sons.
So DO NOT give me your shit about “everybody from a single-parent home knows this.”
DO NOT.
Just shut the fuck up, be happy that you weren’t raised in such a wonderful parental-alienation paradise, and keep shutting the fuck up until you know what you’re talking about.
—
So…. who knows WHAT happens in divorce court?
Everybody? THAT’S RIGHT.
This is ridiculous. The average young middle- to upper-middle-class male has NO IDEA WHATSOEVER of the ass-ramming that many men take in divorce court. The internet is changing this, slowly but surely, but your claim that “every 20-year-old” knows these things – or even a claim that most or many 20-year-old males know them – is absurd on its face.
Marriage rates are falling, but that’s in large part because the lower classes simply can’t bothered to get married at all anymore. Among upwardly mobile young men who need to know this stuff, far too many are still getting hitched with zero game, zero pre-nup, zero chance, and, soon enough, zero hope.
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A black Jacobin, are you?
I think I need this reference explained a bit further in detail…
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Chuck: Tood, the U.S. would revert back to traditional, right-wing conservative rule before it would ever touch islam…
Do you really believe this?
Chuck, the U.S. no longer even has a right-wing conservative political party.
Moreover, l’air du temps on college campuses is usually a pretty good harbinger of things to come, and you’d have to be a complete moron not to see that Islamic groups hold considerable power on campus while conservative groups are pariahs. Granted, the fact that college campuses are populated with clueless young SWPLs will exaggerate this effect, but our future political and ideological leaders aren’t going to come from anywhere else.
We won’t be able to read this particular barometer until the Wahhabis take over selected Western European nations. When that happens, the immediate reaction of the U.S. will be either (a) ascendant right-wing anti-Islamic American nationalism or (b) SWPL PC pussyfooting of the “let’s apologize to Islam after 9/11” type. Whichever one wins will have home-field advantage for the playoffs.
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87:
of course i believe it…i mean really, there are large areas of this country that are still ruled by conservative principles. yet there are no areas of the country that wholly believe that islamic law would function here.
sure, there are sympathizers, but i don’t buy into the fear-mongering (even though tood is actually a fan) that islamic rule would ever gain a foothold in America.
i’ll take our current set-up, warts and all, before i’d ever accept islamic rule in this country.
“Chuck, the U.S. no longer even has a right-wing conservative political party.”
for the time being. once the congressional dems fuck everything up the conservatives will be back. this is one thing that always baffles me about political discussions. people act as if a loss, even a lopsided one, means that the party is off in the wilderness for 40 years. in reality, the republicans should be *ecstatic* that they’re in their current situation. given that history has *always* shown that the regime in power fucks up, they will come back stronger than ever.
the only thing is, its up to the republicans to not bail out like they bailed out on the legacy of the 1994 republican takeover.
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I want to address a few points Dave Alex and Scotch Fiend made.
Wrt Half Sigma, I too got the impression that he was a troubled and bitter Man, angry for some deep and abiding reason; that’s not to say however, that none of what he’s noted is of no value. Indeed, quite a few things he’s said about “proles” are in fact quite accurate. So its not necessarily that he discusses the topic at all that bothers me, but the sheer and quite transparent animus that propels it. And its pretty clear to me that it stems from something deep within.
That “something” is reasonably explained by DA’s post on HS-that he was a kind of Wonder Kid that never really made good on the huge promise that his gifts and advantages, being born a NY Jew, afforded him. Worse, the “little people” seem to get on with the business of life mostly without much fanfare or incident, though as I’ve noted quite a few times, they’ve certainly done their fair share of dumb stuff.
But HS represents something else to me, and his constant harping on “proles” speaks to something I noted earlier in this thread. And that’s how, the supposed “better” people keep scapegoating their failures onto others. I’ve noticed that while no group has the corner on this less-than-a-Man tactic, that at least to my mind, it seems that of late, the so-called cognitive betters seem to have brought this scapegoating thing to a high art.
Proles and supposed lower Iq folk, for all their problems, real or perceived, seem to manage living their lives, making whoopee and making babies, and as DA noted, are relatively content w/their place in the world. Meanwhile, the HS’ of the world can’t seem to get a handle on their own failures in life-many of he best an brightest couldn’t get laid if their lives depended on it, and guys like HS can’t seem to figure out why, despite being born w/a formidable IQ score and bein descended from among the smartest group of people in the history of human beings, he has nothing to show for it. Perhaps he might consider joining Mensa, such themes are plentiful there. And at least he’d be among friends.
For the most part, blue collar guys are too busy trying to keep the lights on to be giving too much thought to their place in their world and what it means-to be sure, if pressed to address the matter, they’ll defend theirs as work that actually matters at the end of the day. But let’s be clear here. Blue collar guys didn’t start the most recent round of hatin’ on folk simply because of what they do to keep a roof over their heads. Like I said before, they usually don’t have the luxury of spending large amounts of leisure time on such things. The hatin’ comes from on high, and we need to be honest about that. Moreover, we need to understand *why* that hatin’ takes place in the first place. Often its a very saavy form of old fashioned scapegoatin’ to assuaged the inflated egos of woulda-coulda-shoulda masters of the universe who never really panned out. I guess having a high IQ, for all is supposed realworld benefits, doesn’t address the very real problem of so many of its number so blatantly bullshitting themselves.
I disagree w/DA’s analysis of SWPLers on the drive to push NAMs into college. I think in truth they have about as much desire to have any real facetime around or among them as the heartland knuckledraggers they excoriate, and their living patterns, by locale, education, etc, bear this out. What they want to do is *convey* their thinking-which is hugely different than doing-about these things, and thereby, “proving” their moral superiority over said heartland knuckledraggers. But in truth there’s not that much daylight between the two on that score.
The issue w/blus collar work and Black folks-especially Black Men-is a seriously hotly charged issue, and one that has a long history in our country. DuBois and Washington had passionate debates over this very same question nearly a century ago, debates that turned downright ugly when Marcus Garvey came on the scene. Class also has a very long history in Black America, and the truth was, that there was and is a class of Black folk who look down on Black Proles just as much, and in many ways, even worse, than any SWPLer could.
In a sense, one could understand it-for centuries, Black folk were barred from anything but menial labor, often but not always of the most backbreaking and demeaning sort. For example, virtually all Black Women see working as Domestics as a huge insult. If one knows the history in this regard, they soon understand why.
So, if there is to be any real utility to the Race & IQ debate, it will have to contend with the very real backlash from certain quarters-the Talented Tenth segment-who will vehemently fight against the idea that errbody don’t have the chops to be Harvard or even Howard alums, and that an above average number of such folk tend to be Black Men. The TT’s, if you will, are almost assuredly to howl “racism” and will fight tooth and nail to shut the race realists down and up if you dig me. This is one group that has to be confronted if the RR crowd are really serious about making real public policy recommendations based on their Race/IQ theories.
And its urgently needed. No matter where you fall on the debate, one thing is certain-that, as a group, Black Men are not well represented in the working sector of America. More and more are returning to society after stints in prison, they have no real education or marketable skills, and are bound to wind up in prison again. Real training in the trades can give thesse guys a shot at a productive life, can make them marriageable, or at the least can make them able to care for a Woman and most importantly any kids he has, etc. Its something that can be done. The issue is a matter of will on all sides, to say nothing of interests to protect, again, on all sides.
Charles Murray has written powerfully on the point that our higher educational system is little more than a sham, but it exists because we want it to. W/our prolonged affluence, something which Whiskey has written equally as powerfully about, we’ve come to view salt-of-the-earth work as less than, less refined, less intelligent, just…less. Through assortative mating, freedom of association and the like, we really don’t want to rub elbows w/the Joe the Plumbers of the world; indeed, if college tuition rates over say, the past quarter of a century are any indication, to say nothing w/the virtually extinct trade schools, the verdict is in-being a blue collar “prole” is not cool.
Personally, I’ve always rejected the supposed limitations society has put on me, something I got from my parents, both of them, but especially from my dad. I refuse to buy into the idea that they *only* people worth listening to are those who have matriculated. I refuse to buy into the notion that they *only* people qualified to lead anything are those who have lambskins on the wall. I refuse to cotton to the idea that only those who spent 4 to 10 years on a uni campus are able or deserving, of living a full, rich and meaningful life. There is no shame or stigma to working with one’s hands, nor is one somehow unable to have a purposeful life because of it. And as this recession wears on-because we ain’t seen the worst of it by a longshot-something tells me we’ll all be taking a second look at the knockaround guys type work. As always, in America problems usually get addressed when enough White folk are effected. I suspect things will get cranking in that direction fairly soon, perhaps another year or so.
And Tupac, never had any idea you were a brother in arms, so to speak. That’s wassup.
O
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lurker
Hey Sara,
That bit of pop culture psych? Yeah, saw it on CSI, too. Worthless crap.
Yeah, that whole right brain, left brain thing. What ridiculous crap! You’re a scientific genius no doubt.
Bhetti:
Def: Oh, poor Rod. Not only his daughter, but an unexpected rejection from sara too.
His daughter rejected him too? Poor fucker. He should have been more respectful towards me and his luck could have been much better.
Okay Default DJ User, etc.
I see you’ve been busy. Me too! Nice Rainbow vid there. There’s nothing quite like an occasional anthem rocker from the 70’s or 80’s. Tell us who else you like. What makes you dance? Or run…..
http://tr.youtube.com/watch?v=GeEM7bluhxA&feature=related
Speaking of rainblow butterflies. Music is my thing, honey. Electronica is my personal favorite music. ^_^ Enjoy all.
Hope has a new man? I thought she was married and pregnant. But what do I know?
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RainBLOW butterflies? That was NOT on purpose. Freudian slip anyone?
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Scotch Fiend,
You said a few things that I wanted to address in a seperate post.
On Black Anger(?) and “Welfare Queens”…
I think its very important to guard against looking at problems through a keyhole, instead of through a door. I find the near-obsessive focus on “welfare queens” to the exclusion of all else that is taking place in the society to be a kind of infantile, simplistic and at worst, scapegoating tactic on the part of some who want have a kind of dumping ground for many of the problems we have today.
While its true, Welfare does indeed promote illegitimacy, we need to keep in mind that *most* Black people aren’t welfare poor, and still the out of wedlock birthrate in Black America remains around 70%. To what then, do we attribute this?
The answer is to be found in your own words SF-giving Women economic and educational parity, along w/political access, meant opening doors and avenues to them that allowed to have a wider menu of options-and human nature being what it is, people do stuff when they can, because they can.
So, one major reason why so many kids are born out of wedlock in the hood so to speak, is because Black Women, while not the face of Feminism, are actually living much of it out-they do it because they can. They don’t need a Man for his money. They’re self-supporting, and often much more formally educated than most Black Men. And of course, bringing back in the welfare angle, if they need it they can assistance from the state.
But its important not to get pigeonholed into the “Black thing” because among White Women, out of wedlock birthrates have significantly gone up, too-and among all income groups, save the uppermost classes. In fact, the singlemom today in 2009 isn’t a teenager struggling to finish highschool, but a 20 to 30 something White Woman working out the burbs, never married or even engaged, working and supporting herself for hers, and in many cases, not on welfare. In the eyes of many, she’s at least nominally middle class.
She too became a singlemom because she can, SF. Again, this is what happens when economic and educational access, freedom and opportunity become real avenues to be exploited.
And we haven’t yet figured out a way to address this fact.
As for “Black Anger”, I would kindly refer you to the Inductivist, March 2008 archives. There you will find a survey taken among Black Chicagoans in the aftermath of Obama’s “Paster Disaster”. Inductivist himself was shocked to learn that African Americans on a whole didn’t “hate Whitey” nearly as much as widely believed, felt they had much in common with White Americans, perferred for their kids to live in intergrated surroundings, and so on. Most Black folks find those who “blame the White Man” to be lacking in character, lazy, etc, and the lack of hate organizations comparable to the Klan ought to convince anyone that Black folk on a whole just aint out to do White folks in. The anger and rage among *some* Black folks is rooted in other things, but not just a visceral hatred of Whites *because* they’re White.
O
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Wait a minute. This guy fled to Indonesia? Wtf’d he want go hang out with a pack of muzzies for? You want to flee to SE Asia you go to Thailand or the Philippines.
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sara I
Lola Rennt (Run Lola Run) was good fun. I actually have some of the tracks from that movie in my music collection. Lola’s boyfriend must have had good game to get her running all over the place like that.
On the right/left brain thing: The divide may exist but is much less certain than the pop-science describes. Also, some people have reversed lateralization (e.g., speech handled by the right hemisphere). From your list I am more like a right-brain type (I would that guess you are too). As this Wikipedia entry (if you are willing to trust that source) reminds us that most work is spread across both hemispheres
The analysis of facial haves was interesting. I will have to look into that. It may be more pop than sci, but worth some investigation.
Hope does have a new man. A man who ran no game (pfft if you can believe that). If you follow her posts on this thread you will get the story from loser ex to Mr. Right (a guy that also likes rainbows and unicorns it seems).
I like lots of music including some electronic/dance (I have no idea of the different genres – I just call it “dance”) stuff. To varying degrees I like all the stuff I posted in this thread. What I listen to depends on my mood from melancholic to manic.
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Each country has it’s advantages and disadvantages. Thai women will drive you nuts, after a while. The Phils is noisy with firecracker loud carhorns and smogy with clouds of diesel, and has shithole ghettos everywhere. Indonesia has too many Muslims in it.
And they each have advantages. Thailand has extremely easy sex, all over the place. The Phils has young girls who want to get serious with princes who are still frogs. And indonesia has beauty and a sly side.
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87
I read some now dead old-timers autobiography, and he claimed in olden times college educations were looked upon with disdain by the talented and established businessmen of the day. As if only those who couldn’t figure things out for themselves had to waste time on formal schooling.
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Extreme sports took off because white guys weren’t dominating traditional sports anymore and needed something blacks weren’t doing.
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This is a waste of time, but I’ll chuck out one more post.
LILGRL
I was taking your comments in context, which is why I felt you were singling me out as a female.
AH! So that’s all it was. You weren’t calling me an evil bitch-beater after all, even though that is a typical tactic of women everywhere. But you, in context, would never do that because LILGRL is a good girl. It’s all in the context. It’s all in how you FEEL.
And no, I’m not going to continue the game of me presenting post after post of LILGRL saying exactly what I said she said and her saying ‘NO’. The reason is because LILGRL doesn’t have veto power over what is a fact and what isn’t. I say ‘No’ to LILGRL’s veto power.
87 said:
I was one of those kids. It took me over 5 years after leaving home to finally see the matrix and realize that my father was, and is, not at all the horrible person that was described to me every day by the other parent; to question the realities of the divorce; and to realize that everything, EVERYTHING, I had been told for over fifteen years was a pack of toxic lies.
That’s almost twenty years of temps perdu that neither my father nor I will get back.
So you put your mom on a pedestal for almost twenty years, but NOW you’ve gotten rid of that pedestal rather than attaching it to other women.
Every time I talk to you I can see the huge pedestal behind you chained to you leg, so I kinda doubt what you just said.
87 said:
This is ridiculous. The average young middle- to upper-middle-class male has NO IDEA WHATSOEVER of the ass-ramming that many men take in divorce court. The internet is changing this, slowly but surely, but your claim that “every 20-year-old” knows these things – or even a claim that most or many 20-year-old males know them – is absurd on its face.
Oddly enough, the women DO know… or they wouldn’t be getting divorced in such numbers. It is all very strange, isn’t it?
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“When you come off like this, I feel bad about picking on you. That’s not saying I feel sorry for you. You just don’t seem so nasty. You’re being honest here and aren’t fronting.
You can take brassy and arrogant too far you know, particularly if you want to appeal to men, even alpha men.
You’re a smart girl that thinks outside the box. I said that to begin with and I’ll say it again. 6 is more like what you are. Nose job for enhanced white guy appeal (since you lean that way) might not be a bad idea since you’re not at all adverse to that sort of thing, seem to come from a family with money, and so on. Screw the purists about plastic surgery.
”
I am very nice. You are mean to me sometimes. Please don’t be mean. I don’t like men in general, but I might like you if you give me a chance.
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@Comment_Whatever
“You weren’t calling me an evil bitch-beater after all, even though that is a typical tactic of women everywhere.”
No, I was.
“But you, in context, would never do that because LILGRL is a good girl.”
I would do that. That is what I did.
“It’s all in the context.”
Yes.
“It’s all in how you FEEL.”
No, it’s in the context. Did we not just go over that?
con·text (1) the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning (Merriam-Webster)
—
@Bhetti
“I made LILGRL lol. My game owns you all.”
Hahaha, nice.
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Welmer:
I’ve not actually heard Irish people argue with each other. What am I missing out on?
The Irish teachers taught me English Literature and History and always seemed very likeable. I was comfortable being a little bit silly around them. One of them taking the class to the library’s how I discovered the joy of novels and reading. Still, I’m not going to assume all Irishmen are the same!
Anyway: I really don’t want to go into it at all. It’s history, no noteable residual feelings.
Thank you for pointing it out. I haven’t noticed anything significant but I can see potential (and apparently so does maurice).
I can see you’re serious about that. That’s revolutionary for me, I’ve only been writing for a little bit. I’ll think about it. I’d rather keep it under my control and non-profit: I’ve seen a lot of doctors use blogs well. I can see some sloppiness in the writing: it could benefit from me letting it breathe before an edit, reading it out loud and not being afraid to attack it before it gets let out into the world. For now, copyediting’s an unlikely option so I’ll just have to try my best.
I’ll need to find one reasonable one somewhere. I’m clearly in denial about what some of the things my religious belief means.
Noted, whoever has the misfortune to come across my writing will thank you.
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I said:
“You weren’t calling me an evil bitch-beater after all, even though that is a typical tactic of women everywhere.”
LILGRL said:
No, I was.
Remember the context thing, LILGRL? I was making fun of your retarded claims to innocence. But hey, if you think switching to admitting it is going to confuse me, no it doesn’t.
You are a typical controlling woman who shuts down men you can’t manipulate or shame with the ‘You just hate women card’.
Since you’ve played the Flirt Card, the Shame Card, and the “You are an evil bitch beater” card, I…. well actually haven’t changed my opinion about LILGRL at all.
I don’t hate women, LILGRL, but I don’t much like you. Specifically.
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Culture matters and cultural and material conditions matter.
It hardly makes any sense to keep having this conversation if you won’t say what country you grew up in and are talking about.
Giving your country is hardly personally identifying.
It’s not relevant to the question at hand, Doug.
You’re either for one partner being able to hijack the other partner’s investment of time, reproduction and financial well-being, or you’re against it.
If it’s wrong for a woman to hold a man’s financial future hostage via cuckolding (and of course, it is), then it’s equally wrong for a man to hold a woman’s financial future hostage by demanding she remain a housewife for 18+ years, then kick her out to fend for herself when the kids are grown simply because he wants to trade up.
If you support the legislation of MPT to protect those men, but would deny women any kind of legislated support in the specific kind of instance I’m describing, not across the board, then you’re using same quality of scoff-worthy “reasoning” employed by the radical feminists you loathe.
Thursday was right.
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sara I
I do like to make if-only-he-had-game-jokes.
Lola’s boyfriend seemed like a bit of a tool. It was his fault they were both in trouble.
[It has been a while since I saw the movie but I remember him messing up some how]
How do you know that “[friend at work] coy, boyish smirk” is nothing other than his coy, boyish smirk? You know, maybe the poor guy just needs a bit of help approaching you.
Anyway, the day that “coy boyish smirks” stop working is a bad day for me. I hope that in this you are an army of one.
It is true that game is not awesome but how many of us are (men and women)? Game: The set dressing and script doctoring of a mundane story.
[Serious note: A few women that have experienced my warmth, passion and humor who might have missed out had I not run some game. That is they would have slipped by me or I would have been invisible to them. I think the result was good for both of us (I never said I was entirely modest).]
You know it was kind of sweet and demur. Is everything OK?
And you say you don’t like game? Come on sweetie. You were made for it. 😉
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Absolutely.
Ask Tokyo about how to have a successful relationship!
He’ll give you his advice based on his extensive experience with having a perfectly satisfying, auto-erotic relationship with quality pictures of pre-pubescent Japanese school girls on the internet!
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I’m not sure if this guy is supposed to be serious or not on his writings here, but I don’t really understand what all the crying is about. Whether you are a man or a woman marriage is a CHOICE, so if it’s an enemy and blah blah why not just NOT get married?
To make a really angry/pathetic criminal your hero and/or alpha male doesn’t even make any sense….it just shows the caliber of people that agree with you are reduced to “random old dude who really stuck it to his old lady”. In actuality he ran like a pussy and hid. If he were an “alpha-male” he’d have told the justice system to suck his balls and have taken the punishment like a man.
I agree, though that marriage is pointless. Women have their own careers, money, and homes and everyone knows a woman (no matter how ugly she is) is never hard up to get laid. It’s true men are needed for a time for reproduction, however I know for myself that I feel no need for a “live in” male or husband. I have a son that I wanted, am raising him alone with my own finances, and can still have sex whenever I want. These male “marriage-haters” sort of just make life a little easier on women who have no intention of marrying you no matter how much money you have or how “alpha” you may be. Thanks for the dick, though!
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I’m not sure how I’m “a living example” of marriage being a mistake as I have never been married and have turned marriage down each time asked. I have never lived off a man, the government, and do not want (or care about) receiving child support payments.
I don’t recall even mentioning whether I thought my son would/would not have any “emotional issues” either way. I don’t see why he would, there is no “divorced parent-fighting”, there is no mention of (his) father in any way either negative or positive. I don’t have contact with his natural father and don’t ever intend any, furthermore I’ve raised my son alone for 5 years and would only add a male if for some reason I suddenly decided that I would LOVE to live with a guy and get married, but that is not going to happen.
I adore men and think they’re tons of fun, smart, and not meant to be clung to either emotionally, sexually, or financially. My preference is to be “seeing someone” for fun and nothing else. I prefer not to have a man (or anyone) involved in my household, finances, or emotions. It’s an addition to one’s life, not a necessity.
It wasn’t mean to be inflammatory to say “thanks for the cock”. I meant it quite literally because that’s all I (personally) really want or need from a man. Isn’t it a bit hypocritical for that to upset you? There is no “game” involved in living this way as a woman because most men are thrilled to get a “entertain me and get the fuck out” vibe from and women because they can avoid everything you gentlemen here are complaining about.
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Lady Rain,
I wish you well in your life. It will be interesting to see if you have the same views when your son is 15 instead of 5.
O
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Oh yeah, I forgot that, being Muslim, you wouldn’t have any experience with whiskey and beer. The arguments often accompany consumption of those substances, and can get pretty vicious.
Since you Muslims just get stoned on hash, I suppose you sit around and chuckle at get togethers.
Irish are well known for getting drunk and fighting — even at funerals. Listen to the song “Finnegan’s Wake” when you have time. It’s about an Irishman who falls and hits his head, is taken for dead, and then at his wake a big brawl breaks out, causing him to awaken and rise up out of the coffin.
But even sober Irish will argue and attempt to come up with witty put-downs.
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Lady Rain, you sound hoplessly naive here.
No mention of his father in any way IS A HUGE NEGATIVE in and of itself.
You don’t see why…but you WILL see.
It’s simply a matter of time before those issues become very real for you.
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Also…consider the implications of your course of action here.
By your words (or lack of them) and your actions, you are essentially raising your son in a belief system in which men are good for nothing by sport fucking and sperm donation.
You might not say it explicitly.
You might not THINK that’s what you are saying in the first place.
But your actions speak louder than your words.
He WILL get that imprint on his psyche. He won’t know of any other way.
As Obsid noted, when your fatherless boy is 15, you will reap the harvest you have sown.
Good luck with that.
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Men are not “hated” in my household and never will be. I have plenty of male friends/family that are not “sex toys” and it doesn’t surprise me that not WANTING marriage would somehow mean that I live in a female sex-lair where the only interaction my child may have is with my oily, sexy, man-meat playthings….. yes, that is CLEARLY what you would assume the “deeper meaning” of my statement was.
I made a personal choice to leave his father for being abusive and somehow the image of him at 15 under MY care as opposed to both of our care (ie: watching his mom get abused and becoming one himself) is FAR less scary than the other option.
Basically what I’ve gathered here is that if you DON’T live off of a man by choice, you are a whore (that would be me apparently) and a bad mother. If you DO live off of a man you are a soul-sucking woman-demon. To make a woman guilty either way completely discredits your position and arguments about “what kind of woman” you dislike. By this logic, you hate ALL women regardless of what choices they make and what lifestyle they live, so why bother pretending it’s just feminists? This fear of ALL women instead of just “dyke” types is made clear by quite a few of you.
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@Lady Rain,
you’re extrapolating far beyond the statements made above. The men here simply stated that your son will suffer for lack of a devoted father figure. I agree.
You may deny this , but in 10 years, he will be angry at you because of the choices you’ve made. Yes, YOU made the choice to mate with his father, and you must account for that TO YOUR SON. You will answer to him.
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@anony – yes, you got what we are trying to say.
@lady rain – try to see what we are saying minus the flame-like rhetoric. this is not really a female-hating venue, believe it or not. (well, some posters can come across that way …) not much you can do about it now, but since you put your story up here, you invvited our reactions.
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Lady Rain,
I don’t know if you’ve read my postings where I discuss my own personal life wrt my parents. But I go into some detail about the role my dad played in my life. He met my mom shortly after I was born, still an infant. They had a brief courtship and married, at the urging of my great grandmother, who wisely told my mother, that she needed to take a good, hard look at her options, for she not always be a stunning redbone brickhouse of a Woman, independent as a nurse in a major hospital. She would not always be a young Woman, able to snag the attention of males far and wide. And her little bundle of joy would not always remain a little bundle of joy; he would soon begin to grow and take on a life of his own. At the time in Philly, gang wars were rampant; the “war dead” numbered in the dozens weekly. And those boys, to a boy, came from singlemom headed homes.
I came of age during the Crack Wars, and could have easily gotten swept up in the whirlpool. I didn’t because the only thing I feared more than the drug dealers and even the cops, was my dad.
The night before my mom’s wedding, my great grandmother said the following:
Diane, I know Bob isn’t all you want him to be. But he loves you and that child. And you need a father for your son.
That was Mar 31, 1969. Just ovr 40 years ago. Today, we don’t even hear those words anymore. And it shows.
Lady Rain, I’m not here to whup up on you. I don’t know you. And, you may indeed be able to successfully to raise a fine young Man on your own-it has happened before.
But I wouldn’t be telling you the truth with a straightface if I also didn’t say that such things were rare-and its more than just a mere matter of money. Like I said, my mom had a great job working as nurse in a major hospital here in Philly at the time. Not bad for a gal coming right out of highschool. But I can say that her spoiling me w/material things woul not have saved me from the streets, among a great many other things. My dad, literally, saved my life.
For every potential Lady Rain there are legion singlemoms who cry over caskets where their sons lay, or seperated by plexiglass walls on the weekly or monthly visit to see their sons. And that’s not even counting the numbers of boys-and keep in mind I’m Black-who are literally half the Man they are today, because they didn’t get what they needed from another Man, which no Woman is.
My dad was by no means perfect, he had many failings. But he also taught me invaluable things about what it means to be a Man that I will take with me all the days of my life. He made the difference.
All I can say to you Lady Rain, is that it takes a Man to raise one.
I’m the living proof.
Again, Best Wishes.
The Obsidian
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See, your choice to “not live off another man” is not what makes you a bad mother. That was from choosing to have unprotected sex with an abusive man, than deciding to have and raise that child, ensuring that the only two choices for your child (fatherless for life or subjected to life with an abuser…gee, thanks mom.)
If you DO live off of a man – i.e. you contribute nothing and receive everything, and have the classic, typical American entitlement attitude, than yes, that does make you a soul-sucking woman-demon.
However, not all women who are mothers and homemakers are “living off their men.” They may be economically dependent on their men…but their husbands become domestically dependent on their women. See, a healthy marriage is a partnership for which both parties contribute different aspects to make the entire unit, the family, work. It was feminists biggest triumph in brainwashing women into thinking the role of mother and housewife was demeaning and parasitic. Ironically, by pushing that meme, the feminists did in fact turn women wholesale into a parasitic lifestyle (the whole child support/alimony system of peonage).
Nah. We just hate women that who commit grievous errors and refuse to own up to them…who rationalize and justify their behavior, and find a way to blame MEN for their own behavior for which they brought the consequences onto themselves.
Women’s guilt comes from their own actions…not what we say here. We can’t “make a woman guilty either way” unless she feels the sting of conscience herself in the first place. And yes, you SHOULD feel guilty for what you did to your son. Sorry if this offends your sensibilities…and I know it’s not really nice for me to say so.
But this is the blog where pretty lies perish.
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Lady Rain said:
To make a really angry/pathetic criminal your hero and/or alpha male doesn’t even make any sense….it just shows the caliber of people that agree with you are reduced to “random old dude who really stuck it to his old lady”. In actuality he ran like a pussy and hid. If he were an “alpha-male” he’d have told the justice system to suck his balls and have taken the punishment like a man.
Naked shaming.
This is the Shame Card.
Is Lady Rain actually real?
Maybe she is.
With most people who don’t care about ideas, you will see a pattern of behavior as they obviously switch from one stunt to another… often without bothering for a transition.
This leads to wild personality switches.
Selfish-Demanding Feminist:
Flirt Card–>Shame Card–>’Your An Evil Bitch-Beater’ Card
I’ve noticed certain bullies go through this sequence after they cut in front of you, or in some other way obviously take-advantage:
‘Pretend You Don’t Exist’ Care –> ‘Your request is just silly’ Card –> ‘Well all you had to do is ask!’ Card(they laugh when they do this)
Again, there is sometimes no transition at all. One second they can’t even imagine what you are talking about, and the next second what you wanted is so obvious, and they would, OF COURSE, do it that they can’t see why you are all mad.
It’s a little disturbing to watch.
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Comment
The fact that some people have no ability for introspection is truly is disturbing.
And those same people that are barely human demand “equality”.
I think a lot of us use up a whole marriage just learning this simple fact. Women have no introspective ability, and speak solely emotionally. And they are greedy little fucks.
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What you fail to realize is that my son was not a “mistake” and I didn’t “make an error” in having him. His father was not abusive until AFTER we were together for a long time and planned a pregnancy together.
Once again, I have nothing to feel guilty for. The fact that my son is happy, smart, and well-adjusted isn’t because I’m a woman it’s because I’m a responsible parent. Your insistence on bringing the sexes into every aspect of your life is rather frightening and you seem to be too emotional to consider rational “non-gender” based opinions or ideas. If your entire being is focused on how manly/womanly you are, you’re missing out on the basic and important principles of life!
I can understand difference of opinion and respect your views of women regardless of what they may be, but those of you who have these “strong opinions” on women and family morals seem to function purely on your sexual/emotional drive and not on your intellect and logic. In showing this obvious weakness, you have essentially stung yourselves. In a mad dash to prove how manly you are, you showed both a weakness in your intellect as well as your rationale. If you see everything in terms of “women vs men” you are making everything those angry feminists say sound much more credible.
Any real man doesn’t fall into an “Alpha/Beta” category. He wouldn’t want to because he’d be reducing himself to being a slave to his “Id” and “Superego”….. which would show a lack of self control and intellect (yet again). A real man knows that he is a combination of both and is comfortable enough in his “manliness” to say so.
Only people of low intellect would follow this lifestyle and live basic on the rules of Cavepeople. This weird belief system some of you gentlemen hold here is an insult to yourselves. Hopefully you are not just the “seed-spreaders” that you joyfully proclaim to be and are also aware of something OTHER than your dick and the very core of these methods suggests that you (men) have only the “natural instinct” to fuck and to reproduce. I would hope you consider yourselves a little better than that!!!
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That was from choosing to have unprotected sex with an abusive man
I must admit, it’s probably better that she had a kid with him than her marrying a beta, faking orgasms, having a kid with him, and divorcing him when she’s tired of him. Or should could have stayed and nagged him to death, right?
It’s better for beta males everywhere that she stay single with her kid.
It was feminists biggest triumph in brainwashing women into thinking the role of mother and housewife was demeaning and parasitic.
It makes sense because it doesn’t have the same prestige as paid work, and when we do pay others for it, those jobs tend to be the low paying jobs held by the illegal immigrants. Nobody grows up say that they want to be a maid or a babysitter. People want jobs that have prestige, have people who have to kiss their ass, and make lots of money.
They may be economically dependent on their men…but their husbands become domestically dependent on their women.
The problem is that she’s economically dependent on me, which leads to her divorcing me when my financial benefits cannot provide the lifestyle she desires. I’d rather she work and pay for her own stuff, and I pay for my own stuff so that way nobody complains about spending habits. In turn, I should do my own damned laundry and cook my own food.
Feminism was a saviour for beta males because it meant that our wives could go to work and help out, instead of dumping everything on us.
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For Obsidian– you are right! It DOES take a man to raise one, but an abusive man is not a man at all and would only teach him cowardice. Unfortunately sometimes life comes down to taking the lesser of two evils and that’s just the way it is. Sure it would be great if he had a positive role model permanently in his life, but I’d rather have NONE than have just ONE bad one that could seriously traumatize him. It’s not a decision based on emotion, it’s based on “Here are the cards I am dealt, therefore worrying about the ‘maybes’ is just nonsense”. My choice was made based on 1. my son’s safety and wellbeing 2. lesser of two evils
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xsplat said:
And those same people that are barely human demand “equality”.
I think a lot of us use up a whole marriage just learning this simple fact. Women have no introspective ability, and speak solely emotionally. And they are greedy little fucks.
I’ve seen men do it to.
You sound a lot more bitter than usual. To many women?
Doug and you seem to have that Love-Hate thing going with women.
You know, more women probably add non-linearly to Drama, until your head explodes, like in Scanners.
You don’t want that to happen, right?
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Your ability to rationalize, justify and lie to yourself is quite apparent.
Sorry Lady Rain. You obviously made an error in the choice of who Fathered your child.
If you’re saying he just suddenly turned abusive…and that there were honestly no red flags prior to your letting him knock you up, you really have convinced yourself that you have no RESPONSIBILITY for your choices and your behavior.
It was all HIS FAULT, wasn’t it?
LOL
And this coming from a lady trying to “shame” the rest of us into ignoring “game” to be a “quality” guy.
Why should what you have to say carry any weight with any of us?
You’ve already perfectly demonstrated your own lack of judgment and your ability to backwards-rationalize your mistakes so that nothing is YOUR fault.
You want to shame us…yet you’ve exposed your own shame.
You are the CLASSIC example of why so many men become bitter.
Because women like you continually reject “nice” guys, than you go and have kids with abusive thugs, than blame it all on “MEN.”
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Dave Alex,
I’m curious-given your chosen lifestyle, why do you always insert yourself into these “used Beta” scenarios? I mean, by definition, they wouldn’t apply to you, right? So, why do you keep going there? Why do you keep posting about that theme, given your lifestyle choice? Why not simply enjoy said lifestyle choice, if it is as enjoyable as you say it is-going on non dates, getting hugs, and jacking off to porn?
Methinks there’s a hint of cognitive dissonance here. Please explain?
O
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Ah yes, abuse. The irrefutable excuse for being a filthy whore.
“Your honor, I was so frightened because he was so angry when I exercised my rights and had sex with various men I met at work/online/in a bar. Definitely, such a man should never have anything to do with his children, because he is so angry. A normal man, of course, would accept my whoring and then do the dishes and change the baby’s diapers.”
“Your honor, I move to deprive my husband of his home, his income, his children and his balls, because he is abusive.”
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Keep in mind that you have only her word. How do we know Lady Rain wasn’t fucking the whole team and called her husband abusive for losing his temper when he found out about that?
To a woman, “abuse” can be as simple as being upset about her choice to take all your money and fuck other men.
And how many women who have cheated and lied will ever admit it, much less APOLOGIZE!
Show me a woman who can say she is sorry for doing wrong and mean it, and I’ll show you the Loch Ness Monster.
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Because women like you continually reject “nice” guys, than you go and have kids with abusive thugs, than blame it all on “MEN.”
And I said earlier, why should she date nice guys who frustrate her and annoy her to no end when she can go bang an alpha that makes her feel good? It’s no different than telling a man with game to go bang nice sweet ugly fat girls in lieu of the ultra-shit testing women at the bar and club.
I mean, honestly, why should we force her on a beta male to make him miserable?
Why do you keep posting about that theme, given your lifestyle choice?
While I may sometimes personalize my responses to explain my choices and theories, I’m merely presenting an alternative to beta males who may be incompatible with game and reading, or to Whiskey types who presume that returning to the ancien sexual regime would make things better for betas.
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Amen, Obsid. After reading this, I am behind you 100%.
I think white men are just starting to go through what black men have been dealing with for decades, and it is far from easy.
However, there is something to be said for freeing oneself from the straitjacket of “social responsibility.” In that way, you guys have had it good.
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Welmer
Oh, so you’ve my ex, have you?
Classic. Keep that one somewhere.
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Welmer I think you may by in a rage over nothing. There was no dramatic court scene whether the evil woman stole away the child and screamed “ha ha you evil man-creature!”
There was no judge. He became an alcoholic waste of life at some point in our relationship and THAT is when he became abusive (which happens to be while I was pregnant). I left him two weeks after my son was born. He knew where to contact me, to see his son, to take me to court or whatever and he chose not to. He chose to never be involved at all and that was fine with me. So sorry to ruin your story of how I hung him out to dry at court. He never wanted rights once I left him, never pursued them, and I in turn never persued any financial rights and that was the end of it.
(Also Welmer he wasn’t my “husband” as I previously stated.) Also it would have been difficult to be a “filthy whore” when huge and pregnant and living with his father at the time. There was no cheating on either of our parts, that was never an issue.
As for Dave: Your accusations are just plain wildly out of whack. I never blamed “MEN” as you say even once! Nor do I refuse the nice guys! THAT one wasn’t a nice guy, but that doesn’t mean they all are like him. At no point did I try to “shame” you. You are creating an illusion of this wild hate toward men because of my situation. It’s not really that big of a deal. I DID take responsibility by choosing to keep and raise my son and provide all his financial and physical needs. There is nothing to “blame on men” because I WANTED to have a son, had one, and am now raising him alone also because I WANTED to. If I were upset about my life I’d want to blame someone (men?) but I am happy about my decisions and am actively responsible for all them, but that doesn’t mean I’m unhappy about it!
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David, with your constant references to the ancien regime and your Haitian ancestry you should already be familiar with this term.
I’d suggest you read up on it. Essentially, the Black Jacobins were the brothers in arms of the French sans culottes.
The Jacobin Club was highly influenced by the ideals of Rousseau, who is considered a misogynist by most modern feminists (as are most philosophers of note).
As of late, I have developed a great deal of sympathy for the Jacobins and their ideals. I feel that they have been unfairly slandered through a barbaric sense of chivalry nursed by the the British aristocracy. Dickens, in particular, offends me for his unrealistic portrayal of womanhood during the Victorian era. And Dickens himself was a notorious philanderer, which is par for the course among paternalistic douchebags. He also wrote extremely long, nonsensical sentences that no editor could decipher — because they had no logical point.
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LOL! Oh c’mon Dave Alex, knock it off already; you’re not doin any Beta males here any good at all. They’re here BECAUSE they want to learn Game, NOT how to jackoff for the rest of their lives. You’re doing this because you’re miserable w/your life. Just admit it.
O
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Yeah, sure you didn’t “persue” any financial “rights.” Generally speaking, the only women who don’t are those who have a pretty strong idea that the guy isn’t even the kid’s father.
Quit trying to defend yourself, you typical American whore. Look somewhere else to get your single motherhood validated, you worthless tramp. Maybe you can find a lesbian lover to indulge you. You’d better get used to strap-ons, you moaning bag!
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Lady Rain, you are doing wonders for making men feel better about any female-hate they may have.
Doug wrote to Marcus Aureliette:
Culture matters and cultural and material conditions matter.
It hardly makes any sense to keep having this conversation if you won’t say what country you grew up in and are talking about.
Giving your country is hardly personally identifying.
Given that LILGRL growing up in TOKYO didn’t set off any warning lights for you, Doug, and you were unable to understand the flirting problems and feminism of FeministX, who comes from a culture of ARRANGED MARRIAGES, then I hardly see how a person’s culture could matter AT ALL to you, Doug.
Marcus Aureliette wrote…
No shaming words at all.
That’s what makes her sweet like Hope. I think I’ll sort the bad women from the good in the future mostly by how much use each woman makes of shaming language.
And no, drawing Equivalencies isn’t Shaming.
Logic != Emotion
I just gained a level in Female Identification!!!11111!!!!
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you’re not doin any Beta males here any good at all
Most of my comment on the topic have an “escape clause”. I’ve stated that if a beta male can learn game, then he should do so. Otherwise, he should opt-out, and not waste his time with women in any sexual form leaving them only for platonic friendships, the only thing that they are useful for.
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Dave Alex, bullshit, man. C’mon, its me here, kill that noise. By definition, guys come here bcause they want that which is wholly different from what you’re talking about. In fact, the only guy here openly embracing an existence of jacking off to porn, non dates and hugs, is YOU. Not one “customer” have you won to your cause, Dave. Not. One.
At some point, you have to start bullshitting yourself, man. And you will. When the pain becomes unbearable.
O
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Not one “customer” have you won to your cause, Dave. Not. One.
Admittedly, I’d just prefer if somebody would acknowledge that it’s a perfectly acceptable choice not just for me, but for other beta males who can’t or choose not to learn game. Most betas who post here are interested in game, and are thus not the applicable for opting out. I’m talking about other men like myself who don’t use game.
Otherwise, I just don’t want to see people saying things were better under the ancien regime of sexuality.
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David the Icon with no Balls
Ya, right, you attention whore. As if if we all acknowledged that, you’d shut up and go away.
Ok, I’ll start. It’s a perfectly acceptable choice for you.
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femx,
all this talk about your need for a nose job… Where’s a pick of your face- I’d like to give an opinion. I had to have cranial surgery a year ago and had a turbinate modified and some old hockey injuries fixed up so I’d like to render a semi-informed opinion.
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@Comment_Whatever
I give up. I mean, I obviously can’t compete with the wild fabrication of me that exists in your mind, so…yeah. Just a couple of things to note:
FACT: I said I thought you were singling me out as a female (“In fact, as the quote you’ve procured is one where I am basically agreeing with two other male posters, it would seem that you’re singling me out because I’m female.”).
FACT: After realizing that you had called out other posters who agreed with me, and that you were thus NOT singling me out as a female, I acknowledged this (“Alright, so I didn’t realize that you’d also asked whiskey about this.”) and explained why I felt you had been singling me out (“I was taking your comments in context, which is why…”). I’m sorry I accused you of singling me out as a female, as this obviously affected you deeply.
FACT: I would give the same advice (re: revenge) to a man or a woman (“I, certainly, would do my best to not acknowledge a man who hurt me, for the simple reason that I wouldn’t want him to think I care.”).
Look, I don’t think you hate women. I never said that — I said IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE SINGLING ME OUT, and this turned out to be INCORRECT. Even if it hadn’t been incorrect, singling someone out != hatred.
And lastly,
“Given that LILGRL growing up in TOKYO didn’t set off any warning lights for you”
I am genuinely curious as to what “warning lights” it set off for you. Honestly, I don’t know if Japanese women are seen as anything in particular (probably because I was so removed from the culture), so I’d like to know what you think being from Tokyo represents, exactly.
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Welmer,
It is truly sad and pathetic that you honestly believe that ALL women have a vendetta against men. It’s impossible for you to believe that ANY man wouldn’t pursue the rights to his child? Are you new to the world? Furthermore you imply that I care more about “sticking it to” my ex than my son’s safety. It’s not a difficult decision to make: If I don’t pursue child support and he never offers any, it will make it much more difficult for him to suddenly come into my son’s life 15 years from now and pretend he “wanted” to be a dad all along. I don’t even know if he’s dead or alive and I don’t really care.
You can call me all the names in the book, but it really doesn’t matter because all you have proven is that you are SO juvenile that you think ANY woman who doesn’t try to suck a man dry MUST be a lesbian? How old are you, seriously?
Also, in case no one ever told you…. women don’t have to TRY to get laid and wouldn’t have to resort to being a lesbian no matter HOW bitchy she was. It’s not because we’re “better” it’s because of men like you who have so little self-control and allow yourself to be dragged around by your dick that makes it so easy for a woman to get laid/married/taken care of.
The only women you would EVER “get” is women with emotional problems who temporarily get some confidence from sleeping with a total douchebag, but even THAT woman would move on from you. Do you honestly think that tricking women into sleeping with you is “new”? That preying on desperate women is “control”? Anyone can pick up a desperate woman/man and you don’t need this ridiculous, childish method to get these low quality women. Either way you will still end up alone this way still talking about “gettin pussy” while are your friends nod at you while silently feeling sorry for your old, lonely, delusional self. Your “woman-hate” doesn’t anger intelligent women, it just makes us feel sorry for you and appreciate REAL men even more.
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Don’t talk to me about self-control, wench. I was a faithful husband, despite being better looking than my wife. I had plenty of chances, but chose to commit myself to the ideal of marriage. In hindsight, that was a terrible mistake.
What makes you think women have to be “tricked” into sleeping with men? Yeah, sure, the poor little things never have any idea what they are getting into when they invite a man into their hotel room for a drink.
I’ve had women seduce me simply to stick a finger in the eye of another woman. Wanna talk about douchebags? Your entire sex is fascinated by mirrors — perhaps you put on makeup to cover up the empty soul staring back from the looking glass.
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Way to avoid answering anything at all. If it isn’t “tricking” and the women are totally aware of “the game” then how is it a game? You are circling yourself here and clearly not understanding anything I said.
No, women don’t have to be “tricked’. A woman typically likes sex just as much as a man and would enjoy it with a deserving individual. All you have done is prove that “the game” is totally unnecessary to “get laid” and the only reason you use it is to get secret revenge on women everywhere just because you got rejected one too many times.
Yes there are tons of women who will sleep with a man to get revenge on a friend, on the man , or god knows what else. So do men. It’s amazing that you can find a way to blame everything in the world and in your life on women and actually BELIEVE that everything you ever did that was wrong is because a woman “drove you to do it”. That shows that women DO INDEED have power over you if they can MAKE you act like a douche just by being women. Any man or woman is responsible for their own actions and more importantly RE-actions to situations. It doesn’t matter how crazy a person acts, if you had so much control over women, their “manipulations” wouldn’t bother you in the slightest. You would need no game because you would be SO ABOVE those manipulations. Sadly, you aren’t. You sink to the level of becoming a predator to protect your wounded ego all the while proving all the things those militant-fems have accused you (as a gender) of.
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Just to point it out: You talk about being faithful to your wife as if you’ve done something heroic. When people get married they are SUPPOSED to be faithful. This is like thinking “feeding your kids” makes you a good parent. It’s what you are SUPPOSED to do. Marrying your wife was a CHOICE you made.
You seem to be able to blame HER simply because she was less attractive than you. So it’s HER fault that you married her KNOWING what she looked like? Once again, that’s your problem. You talk of old values, but any “traditional” man doesn’t cheat and talk about their spouse in the way you did. A conservative older man would spit on your lack of respect for what marriage was INTENDED to be.
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Ahhh, we see now. The deserving individual is the sort of man who gets drunk and beats you up. That’s the kind of man that deserves sex from the likes of you, eh?
Lady Rain, get over yourself. You have no clue about what you are talking about. You are the classic female narcissist that is too myopic to even begin to comprehend what “game” is. You are just another variation of the typical female that comes here and thinks that “game” is lying a gullible, dumb woman into bed, and that you are “above” such things.
That is NOT what it is about…at all.
Oh, and that guy who donated the sperm to your fatherless child? He certainly had game!
He fooled you, didn’t he?
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He fooled you, didn’t he?
And she’s got a time bomb in the form a little boy. A baby boy who, BTW, carries 50% of the DNA of an abusive and alcoholic father.
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Once again thank you for the random string of insults geared toward all women everywhere. It’s not that “the game” is stupid….it’s that its SO ABOVE the rest of the world’s thinking, right?
Yes, I’m sure my ex’s “game” was to become an alcoholic shell of a man and drink himself to death, be a deadbeat, and never amount to anything. YES he sure SHOWED ME!!!!
You keep turning it around and trying to get me to talk about how “horrible” he was and how he “broke my heart” and it’s because all men are horrible creatures. In truth I CHOSE to be with him and CHOSE to have a child with him (or the man I thought he was) and when I realized he was not worth my time, I left. Pure and simple, end of story.
No matter how hatefully you speak, I am intelligent enough to know that men like you and he are few and far between and that most guys are not assholes and cannot be blamed for the actions of the less-educated such yourself. No matter what I say though you have been brainwashed to believe ALL women HATE men deep down. We don’t.
It seems like most of this is just nerds trying to get laid and someone decided to use it as a way to get militant fems all fired up. Sadly though, normal women and men in this world who are aware that there are bad seeds in every gender disregard you and the other followers as “pathetic” and we honestly feel bad for you.
You function on your urges that humans have evolved FROM over countless years. Somehow you have become confused enough to think that you are “evolving”. You can’t even control yourself enough to think with your brain. You have shown in your words over and over again that you prefer the “lazy man’s” way of living where you let go of all logic and intelligence and just give into the lowest part of your psyche. The “id”. Anyone can fuck, sleep, shit, and die. Happiness is knowing someone loves you for who you are. Anyone with a Kindergarten education knows this. Apparently you have so little self-confidence that you have to assume the persona of someone else to get laid.
Whatever my “bad choice” was I have taken responsibility for it and more importantly my “bad choice” ended in something as amazing as having my son. At no point did I blame men for my personal decision nor do I hate them because of it and I don’t see why you keep trying to convince me that I do.
You must have a really inflated sense of self-importance to think that you or any ONE man really effects women in the way you think you do (making us SO shocked that we’re either man-haters or we drop our panties). In actuality you are far more amusing than militant feminists because you don’t even have a REASON to be pissed at society. You aren’t fighting for the right to vote or something even SOMEWHAT meaningful. You’re fighting for the right to be an asshole. You already have that right. Everyone does and no matter how many names you put on the face of “asshole” and “loser” men/women with sense in their head are still laughing at you while you circle the bar annoying women left and right until finally you talk long enough to one that she’s too drunk to care what you’re saying and gives into a “pity fuck”. You aren’t empowered, you are now the “pity fucks” of the world instead of just being dudes that can’t get laid.
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@lady Rain- I’m a female just like you so I’m not going to jump on you with a load of misogynist hate but why didn’t you use birth control? did you consider an abortion or the morning after pill?
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Nah. Just you…and all the women that think like you.
You think that long-winded paragraphs of your self-justified emoting makes for a substantive argument? You’re in the wrong place for that to work.
You fail to miss the main point, which is not really an insult…but I’ll make it real simple: in your posts that you’ve made in these past two days, you’ve attacked most men here, you’ve insulted most of the men here by implying that “game” is nothing more than lying and deception to seduce unworthy, low class women…and that we should all listen to you about just what a REAL QUALITY MAN should be like.
Yet, on the other hand, you have already admitted to whelping a child with an abusive alcoholic deadbeat.
And we’re supposed to take YOUR advice on how to be a “quality” guy?
Lady, you have failed miserably to understand what this blog is about.
Read the archives. All of ’em. Think about the sum totality of the topics that are most frequently discussed here.
Maybe than you’ll understand what “game” is about.
Until you can demonstrate even an elementary level of understanding, rather than the typical, feminist-indoctrinated, emotive reaction masquerading as “educated logic,” understand that most of us don’t really care how you FEEL about “game” and the men that frequent the comment threads here.
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She wasn’t unattractive — she just wasn’t that attractive. 9 body 5 face. 7 overall. She was a very good athlete, but kind of simple minded.
BTW, you suggest above that I cheated and talked about my spouse in a negative way. Absolute, complete bullshit. I indulged her every whim, cooked, shopped, helped with the kids, made sacrifices for her career, and defended her until the end — the end being when she started treating me like shit and fucking around.
You come here and crap on men who have every right to be pissed off, and yet the man you claim to be seeking is exactly what I was. I know your type; you will simply use and use and then take advantage of the law to deprive a man of everything to suit your selfish, stupid need for a power trip.
You are stupid, arrogant and have a swollen sense of entitlement: in short, you are the typical American whore.
I hope to God no man ever falls victim to you again. But go ahead and get your “conservative older man.” If he wants to spit on me, that would only show what a pathetic fool he really is, because he’d get a beating and be arrested for assault for such a pathetic effort.
Older men are, BTW, often the last refuge of whores (and vice versa).
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@LadyRain/Welmer/Dave – I have to say, I’m diggin’ the crazy here. A very entertaining fight. Buit one that is generating more heat than light.
@ Lady Rain, a newcomer: some of the comments here come across as (well, are) misogynist; but by and large, this site is an unusually insightful one, from the male point of view, about the way men and women interact and the way insitutions are biased against men. some of us have been burned in the past, some have not, but all share an active interest in the topic. stick around, read for a while, discount the more extreme comments, and you’ll be surprised how on-point and rational we are.
@Welmer/Dave – I can see Lady’s point here. She’s not dissing on the whole male species, and neither are you dissing on the whole female speies, but the terms of our discussion here can be a little off-putting for the novice. She made a life choice that seemed rational at the time, and doesn’t bear a grudge against all men based on her bad experience, as most of us don’t hate all women based on our bad expereinces. we have learned to keep our eyes open and know more about our opposite numbers, though. isn’t that what we’re supposed to be getting at? the fatherless child was also a choice, and one she will be accountable for in due course.
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http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-8-the-rearden-in-action/#comments
I just discovered T Raw’s blog, and this post in particular is pure gold
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Heh, I’m just having fun with the little tramp. Lady Rain is as confused as anyone, and her attitude is really just a function of her hormones, but she isn’t smart enough to understand that. If she really wanted to be satisfied, she’d just shut up and listen to men who have an objective view of the world.
When I really want to see the light and expound on it, I surround myself with solitude. If you want to see the stars, after all, you’ve got to get out of the city and towns and into the big void. The deserts or the seas are always the best, and we have plenty of those out here in the West.
The heat of the campfire/hearth is small, but comfortable. In comparison to the vast, icy vault of the heavens it is pathetic, but it gives men a good understanding of why we keep coming back to women, who dwell in these warm little coals in the midst of the vast wonder of creation.
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Very poetic. Stargazing does put one in that frame of mind. If I can go out on a limb and offer one more thing: don’t patronize. looking back at Lady Rain’s posts, through the fight language there’s lots of stuff in there most of us agree with.
Are you in Nevada? I bet the night sky is awesome there when you get away from Vegas.
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Lady Rain
I just read your latest screed on this thread. I could not discern any spine of logic or coherent argument anywhere. Your whole effort seemed aimed at wounding the emotions of those who said things you did not like.
You can trust me; I am not like the others. So listen to my advice. Smart guys only believe what women say with their pussies. So use yours to tell your truth. Fuck the guys near you who think like you want them to. That is your strongest real influence on mens opinion in regard to what “women want.” Since you cannot fuck anyone, properly, here, you are basically wasting your time. Unless, of course, you could learn to use a logical argument that would impact on guys intellects…
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Poetry is a fundamentally masculine expression of the fullness of perception. Every time I feel the world, there is poetry in it. It is creation expressed in words — a man’s paean to God, the father.
It is really of no consequence whether “Lady” Rain agrees with me, or us. You have correctly used the term patronize, and perhaps you are correct in that it is a waste of time to patronize her, because she is little more than an errant child who cries out for attention in all the wrong places and at all the wrong times. If anything, this is the trait of a stubborn, simple-minded child who needs a firm hand and plain talk. Perhaps that is why she claims that she was “abused”; she simply got a taste of what she needed and ran off screaming to the nearest old fool whose drooping loins have weakened his knees (i.e. a judge).
I am in Washington state. We have here the sea, forests, mountains and the high desert. I can go one way to the low pines and clear skies and the other to the tall sentinels of the ice-carved sound. Either way the emptiness of the land will speak to you.
You should come visit if you have the time.
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Default User
How do you know that “[friend at work] coy, boyish smirk” is nothing other than his coy, boyish smirk? You know, maybe the poor guy just needs a bit of help approaching you.
It’s my uber vigilance coming into play here. I think he’s an enneagram type 6 and ‘coquettish’ boyish smile covers up a lot of insecurity. He uses his (considerable) looks to seduce which gives him a sense of power and security. I know way too well from dealing with the last (more highly) insecure six, that covering up (in his case) vast insecurity with sex is big trouble for the one (me) who is being seduced. I don’t like being used like a drug. I have plenty of insecurity myself, that’s not the point. It’s how people deal with it.
As far as encouraging him; I do in my own way, but I’m not going to “fall” for him in the way that other women probably have. I like to keep my eyes open, having learned the hard way….really hard way.
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sara I
I only ever use my “‘coquettish’ boyish smile” with the best of intentions. 😉
Is that why you are down on game? That it will be used by insecure people to deal (badly) with their insecurities?
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Welmer–
You seem to miss the point entirely. Your views on women have nothing to do with ME personally. Since you don’t know me at all….your speculation, insults, and accusations are based on whatever some dumb ass having a mid-life crisis tells you to think about women (and of course women like me).
There has been NOTHING logical about anything you have said to me thus far so how could I possibly “defend” myself to someone like you who is ruled by hormones? Your entire identity seems to focus on “power” but you seem to think the power is in your pants. Both men and women who think this way and feel it is acceptable behavior are not given to logical/intelligent decisions.
Also, the belief that the world is somehow against men and all for women is really irrational and I can’t imagine what has to happen to people to feel this way about either men/women as a whole. You honestly seem to believe that women who do not “bow down” to you are all “unworthy” of your manliness which is the equivalent of no one laughing at your joke and then saying “fuck you guys, you’re just not SMART enough to GET my humor”. This is the usual way children get out of logical discussion and apparently the only way you know how to talk to/about women at all.
It’s much easier to get along in society if you realize that everyone is “oppressed” in some way and crying about it all day and seeking your “revenge” on women by looking like a slimebag/teenager/douche really only validates everything awful women have ever done to you. You are too lazy to both be a manly provider and also a loving companion so you choose to be neither and just try to get pussy however you can. This is really sad and there is no “conquest” in living a lie. Only children and psychopaths do whatever pleases them at the expense of everyone around them and that’s why someone has to keep an eye on those people….. because they’re socially retarded due to age or mental illness…. WHAT could possibly be YOUR excuse for this behavior?
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When I read Dave from Hawaii posts I find myself curiously aroused.
carry on.
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The coy boyish smile really got to me with the last mistake
you were certainly not the first one to fall for it… some may notice a pattern here
Never again
yeaaaahhh….
now it is the turn of meek, humble, downward looking, social awkwards geeks!!!
My opinion is not based in logic alone
I am shocked, shocked, absolutely shocked.
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Sara:
I love it when you rant.
Even when its obvious you dont get the point.
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gig
Sara said: My opinion is not based in logic alone. “I am shocked, shocked, absolutely shocked.
You made me giggle, illogical as that is.
Default User
Of course I will continue to point out if-only-he-had-game stories, or great examples of game in music etc. I would hate you to miss those, my sense of humor would not allow that.
I think I’m avoiding work today… I realize fully that you’re “not like the rest”. Me neither.
schoolboy becomes collegeboy:
I love it when you rant.
Even when its obvious you dont get the point.
The only point worth getting is that there is no point. Tell me since you’re an experienced blogger, how can I get a picture for my comments? Fight Club is a great movie and the last time I had sex.
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sara:
You mean the last time it came out? Fight club came out 10 years ago, and thats the last time you had sex…you must be a shut in type of gal.
Go to gravatar.com in order to get a pic on the side.
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sara I
Having just come from another thread where depression is being discussed, the above made me sad. I hope you find a good man to fix that. Is there a Fight Club 2 planned?
[I am going to leave my gravatar blue for this post as well]
As collegeboy said, to show a picture you need to go to gravatar.com.
You will need to give them a working e-mail address.
You need to upload a picture to the Gravatar site.
Then just use the e-mail you gave Gravatar.com in the Mail field when posting your comments.
collegeboy
Congratulations on graduating.
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Thank you default but I already graduated a year ago. My level in college has barely kicked in.
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@welmer – I have a buddy who is from Spokane and used to work in an office full of people from Montana, so I am overdue for a trip out there. I think the leftie-eco cities like Seattle and Portland would annoy me, but the mountain west is awesome.
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Lady Rain, can you explain what you would bring to the table to make you worth providing for?
See, this is what I don’t really get. American women seem to think that they have this intrinsic value, and if men don’t recognize that, then somehow something is wrong with them.
Is it worth providing for a woman who provides nothing but a threat to dump you if something goes wrong (e.g. you lose your job)? How about if you get hurt or sick? What if a guy does develop an addiction? Should a woman dump him for that?
Turn it around. Say a wife loses her job, gets sick, or gets hooked on pills. Should a husband simply ditch her? Usually, men will not leave women in these circumstances, but women have been shown to run at the first sign of difficulty.
So is a wife really worth much at all? Does she truly provide comfort, reassurance and companionship, or is she simply a demanding, selfish woman who sticks around only when things are easy for her? Usually, she is the latter. Lady Rain appears to be the latter. She thinks she deserves provision, so I’d like to give her the opportunity to explain why.
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See, this is what I don’t really get. American women seem to think that they have this intrinsic value, and if men don’t recognize that, then somehow something is wrong with them.
so true.
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“””””””””””””””Sara,
The only point worth getting is that there is no point. Tell me since you’re an experienced blogger, how can I get a picture for my comments? Fight Club is a great movie and the last time I had sex.””””””””””””
Dam this blog did get you hot he he he
I remember when you said you saw fight club for first time and had sex after I guess getting hot off this blog. Man this blog does change lives. That was what 1 and half ago though right.
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The real problem with Seattle isn’t so much the lefties as it is that people are notoriously difficult to approach and befriend. It’s this way pretty much throughout the cloudy parts of the Pacific Northwest, but on the other side of the Cascade range, where it’s sunny and dry, people have a lot more of that easygoing inland West attitude — in fact they’re pretty much the same as people from Idaho, Montana, etc.
The best place to visit in Washington state, in my opinion, is the Okanogan/North Cascades. Absolutely beautiful. Parts of Western Washington, such as the Olympic Mountains and the San Juan Islands are worth visiting as well. You can see a pretty wide range of beautiful scenery here, such as rain forests, deserts, steppe, canyons, alpine peaks and meadows, beautiful islands, the Palouse, etc.
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college boy
You mean the last time it came out? Fight club came out 10 years ago, and thats the last time you had sex…you must be a shut in type of gal.
I saw it for the first time last summer.
gunslinger
I remember when you said you saw fight club for first time and had sex after I guess getting hot off this blog. Man this blog does change lives. That was what 1 and half ago though right.
Hot off this blog? OMG. Sorry to disappoint you!
default user
Having just come from another thread where depression is being discussed, the above made me sad.
Well, then maybe you shouldn’t read that kind of stuff! See above. It’s only been almost a year. No biggee. Thanks for the avatar info. btw I think you’re an enneagram type two.
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sara I
More likely a Type 5 with 4 wing. I guess the comment above threw you.
It only made me sad because:
1) It is good to be with someone (you know in the biblical sense 🙂 )
2) From what you have written, and my own guess (see note below) I figured you are passionate enough to miss that connection in a way that many might not.
Notes:
Us type Fives should probably avoid amateur psychology/psychographics/reading people/whatever.
Obviously that connection needs to be with the right person.
From the website it looks like as Type 5 becomes better they move to Type 8. As Type 8 become unhealthy they move towards Type 5. So stay health or become like me.
[assumes that I am a 5, which I believe I am]
I am going to lookup Type 2. It better be a “good” type or I will be pissed. 🙂
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Welmer,
You are correct in saying that there are a ton of women who essentially will “ditch out” on a marriage or LTR no matter WHAT the man does to be a “good provider”. I would never disagree that point or say “women don’t do that” or some other sweeping statement about women.
However there are also tons of men who do that to women who were faithful wives who didn’t walk all over them and “ditch out ” also for no reason at all.
What logic I don’t understand is that you can provide an excuse for EVERY reason a man will leave a woman and feel it is rational to blame the woman, but I have yet to hear/see you mention even ONE time you feel the woman is rational in doing the same.
It seems to be an epidemic here that men can do whatever they want to and manipulate in whatever way they choose, but women are “evil” if they do the same? I have no problem with people living whatever lifestyle they choose, but how can you be so openly hypocritical and still be considered a logical/rational person?
Also I could sit here all day telling you the manly reasons I’m supposed to be “above” your sweeping generalization, but this is the internet and it doesn’t matter what I say I am or am not, I could be a big fat liar. Furthermore even if I tell the truth you’ll still call me a liar. I think that would be a childish waste of both of our time.
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Default User wonders why Pupu always speaks in the third person. Default User thinks it is kind of cute.
It is cute. I dimly recall someone similar on another blog or web board. Very adorable,
Hmm… True story. More true than a Tom Wait’s true story. Really.
I used to know a gangster who always spoke in third person, with a very soft effeminate voice. Oddly his nomen started with a “P” too – “pepe” as in pepe le peu. He would always speak in the third person with a slow soft voice. Frankly I don’t think his real name was Pepe, but that does not pertain to the story…
Somehow it all made him somewhat menacing. Plus he always wore sunglasses, 1980’s style sunglasses, even at night.
Once I was driving him, a potential business associate of his who happened to be a young aspiring pimp, and 3 teenage hookers, under his employ, around in my car.
Kindly do not ask me WHY or how this came to be. It was simply business. Legal and respectable business.
In any case it was a miserable trip. These were some of the most annoying people possible. He kept doing little things to annoy the girls in the back, making polite insinuations about loyalty to him, how he hates it when people disappoint him, etc., in a really soft flowing voice. Kept referring to himself in third person, which freaked out the other guy. All small things, little tiny power plays. At some point he politely asked if I would allow him to smoke a cigar in my car, when I said yes he lit up and then playfully started trying to put out the butt on one of the girls with a smirk on his face.
I barked “Respect the car!” and everyone got quiet. The girls shut up, he shut up. Sometimes you have to just call people out on their shit.
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good info.
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