There are times when we men can’t help but gush our feelings of love for our woman. It’s Ok. Passionately pouring out your heart is not inherently un-alpha. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. For instance, right ways:
“I love you more than you will ever know.”
“I thought about your smile today.”
“I want to kiss you all over and make love to you all night.”
“My gargantuan member throbs for your squeezebox.”
Notice a pattern? Alpha passion is proactive, assertive, conspicuously noncommital, temporally ambiguous, and decidedly non-goopy. Here are the wrong (beta) ways to express your love:
“I’m so lucky to have you.”
Way to demonstrate lower value, champ.
“I don’t deserve you.”
Just what a girl wants to hear — she’s with an unworthy man. This is David Alexander’s go-to line.
“Our hearts beat like one.”
Homo say what?
“I love you SOOOOOOOO much.”
Are you a 15 year old girl?
“You are my everything.”
Poon Commandment III: You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority. (Chicks dig guys drawing up blueprints for world domination.)
“I couldn’t go on without you.”
What she hears: “If you dump me I’ll kill myself.”
“Say you’ll never leave me.”
What she hears: “I’m a loser who can’t get another woman.”
“I will always love you.”
Great. You just gave her carte blanche to act like a high maintenance prom queen.
“You pooped in my toilet, and I haven’t flushed it in a week.”
This could work as humor if you say it deadpan. But if your eyes well up with tears and you clutch your chest in anguish while saying it, the effect will be ruined.
See the difference? Beta passion is needy, desperate, cloying, self-effacing. Some might argue that the whole idea of passion is to drop pretense and embrace the freedom of vulnerability, but I disagree. A woman’s alpha radar never stops monitoring for beta blips on her emotional space, so the next time she complains that you don’t show your soft side enough, you can take that to mean you’re doing your job, Skittles Man. Anyhow, it’s better to be romantic through actions rather than words.
If you do slip up and catch yourself uttering one of the above sappy beta romantic lines, you can save face by immediately following up with “… for me to poop on!”. Yes, even for the last one.
roissy
David Alexander go-to lines are actually:
“Disk full” or
“buffering, please wait.”
Brings a entire different meaning to right-click.
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Good stuff, though I hope nobody needs to be told that the latter lines are ridiculous.
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This clears up a few things for me, actually. Recently I’ve started being monogamous for a woman. This is … rare for me. I noticed I started saying things like alpha line #3. Then, one evening she said she was coming over (to pick up her cell phone charger which she accidentally forgot; women have game too, it’s just transparent), and I cooked us both dinner.
Alarms started going off in my head: you’re cooking her dinner! beta! wimp! suckup!
But in the end, I wasn’t doing it to get something from her, I was doing it because I like to cook, it sucks cooking for one, and I honestly wanted to please her.
That night I was extra rough with her. The next day, she wasn’t singing the praises of the dinner, she was telling me how she can’t stop thinking about being thoroughly fucked.
I’m learning that relationship “game” comes down to a few things. 1. Having something else going on that’s cooler than her (ie, your mission). 2. Letting her know she can leave anytime, or you could get rid of her anytime, without major consequence. 3. Flirting with other women in front of her. Even if you’re bad at it (and don’t get numbers, etc) the attempt is enough. 4. Fucking her so well that she is literally addicted to you for various biochemical reasons.
A lot of this has been stated in this blog. Still, the difference between reading and personal realization is quite distinct.
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Oh, forgot to mention:
Last but not least, you can spend 90% of your time doing stupid shit, talking about whatever, listening to her drama, watching movies, basking in her affection, without worrying about being alpha all the time, as long as you occasionally ping the 4 points above.
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The poop line is gold!:-D
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I will boil down some wisdom from Sara along these same lines:
Want is hot.
Need is not.
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Default User
*actually laughed out loud*
What would we do around here without you?
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I envisioned Spongebob squarepants saying the poop line with his Glossy watery eyeballs full of sparkles.
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That don’tdatehimgirl.com blog is a goldmine. Just saying.
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need implies scarcity, a lack of options. period. women meet/cross paths with needy losers every day. the self-assured man is a rarity. therefore you play on her scarcity principle and not the other way around.
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http://dontdatehimgirl.com/posts/1304/
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Yeah, Triumph is definitely an Alpha dog. I hope he shows up a lot on Conan’s new Tonight Show gig.
So how about when/how often to use the Alpha love lines? As rewards for good behavior? Unexpectedly, to create push-pull drama and uncertainty?
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Of course I love you, baby. Just like I love Raisin Bran!
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Once again, good money, R.
I carefully read this post several times, and equally carefully thought back through my life since I first started dealing w/Women, age 18. I can honestly say, w/o fear of contradiction or reprisal, that I have never, ever, uttered such “Beta” lines. And, I have said lines quite similar to the “Alpha” section Roissy outlines above.
Challenge, good money, bruh. Wise words being spoken there. Carry on.
O
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“There are times when we men can’t help but gush our feelings of love for our woman.”
The only time I have ever told girls my feelings was when I was a Baby G swooping two girls I “Vicky Christina’d” out of rave, wacked out on Rotterdam E-Tabs, Chronic smoke and Alize back in 1992.
– MPM
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Challenger–
Bang up first (or early anyway) comments on here. Just totally spot on. Including your followup second one. That’s right too.
As for your number 3, of course if you learn to flirt well, so much the better. It’s a lot easier when you’ve already got a hot woman. Then subtlety is often best. In fact, for beginning flirters, always start subtle and ambiguous. There is real power in getting away with the outrageous flirt, but that’s not for starters.
One does have to demonstrate value to some extent as you say. E.g. it’s a whole lot better if she can answer a gf’s question “what do you see in him” with something convincing and better yet if they don’t ask.
Making her a little afraid from time to time that you might leave her or anyway certainly could is one of the most powerful bits of game. Use the full bore version of this sparingly, it’s too powerful. But making her emotionally chase you, which is related, doesn’t need to be sparing at all.
DO NOT listen to women or the culture when they tell you to avoid making your woman jealous. Jealous and then reassured is where it’s at. Oh yeah. Sure women want to feel completely secure, and reward that or try to. Don’t give it to them. Not completely.
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Oh yea-I LOVE Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog! I remember seeing him on a “celebrity” Hollywood Squares and he broke Kathy Lee Gifford down, had me in tears from laughing so hard.
The only reason why I even bother to watch Conan is Triumph. Funny as shit.
O
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G Man
Penelope Cruz is just smokin’ in Vicky Christina Barcelona.
She’s sometimes a bit passive at least in her American movies but not there. At all. Smokin.
She actually leaves Scarlett Johanssen in the dust, though the combo with Javier Bardem are hot, hot, hot.
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The same principles apply for women’s game. Imply that you can be satisfied without him. You’d never cheat, but you would not fear life without him.
and to the men……never slip into baby talk……. a real buzz kill.
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doug1
Sara gets a hard time around here, but that was a very good insight.
(Slightly boastful) Story related to point 2:
A long time ago a girlfriend said something along the lines “I could quite easily survive without you.” I paused for a second and replied “Yeah! But you’d miss me.”
That was followed by a moment of silence, a smile, a hug, and “yes, I suppose I would.”
Notes:
She was saying it more in jest than anger.
This was before I had ever heard of a thing called “game.”
I did not spoil the moment by saying something like “I would miss you too”
Nascent Alpha qualities?
Is that story an example of a DHV spike?
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Hidden between the lines:
Alpha passion is sexual. Beta passion is asexual.
Betas basically fail to understand women. They do not comprehend what it is like to fantasize about being fucked all the time. Men have evolved to be capable of focusing on a task for hours without being bothered by any thoughts of this kind. No woman would ever get through a business meeting without at least one sexual thought.
Women do not think of a kiss on the cheek when a guy uses words like “romance”, “love” or “kiss”. They think about bodily fluids mingling. Even something as mundane as the color red has a deep sexual connotation for females.
By failing to use these words in the same way that women do (as synonyms for sex) and sticking to the rational surface, a man reveals his limited experience with women, his poor social abilities and therefore his low status.
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Default User
Yes and yes.
You should be more boastful I think. But in a joking, hard to deny you’re right kind of way. (Which you can certainly do.)
You’re a very funny guy.
Let me build on yours story a little bit. What would have been even better is if she’d experienced having missed you, rather than just thinking about it and coming to that conclusion. Demonstrate your fun joking insightful value as you do.
Then withdraw and make her chase. Really. Try it. (You have to think about what will make her ask for more, or chase. But that’s what to be thinking about.)
I think with you and your talents it would be magic.
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Erm, depends on how boring the meeting is, and whether I’m doing any talking or just sitting there listening, but I often have such thoughts as I sit there listening to someone drone on and on. It’s either daydream about women or surf the web on my phone.
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Having been clinically diagnosed as Bi-polar and having experienced Mania, I feel I have some insight to share. Bi-polar mania= supreme confidence= state of PURE ALPHA.
The supremely confident (see Alpha Male) see others as they *truly* are: needy, inferior, emotionally manipulative creatures. Simplified version: Maniacs are immune to bullshit. Allowing others to control you is simply acknowledging they (and their EMOTIONAL BULLSHIT) are MORE IMPORTANT.
Do you enjoy investing time and emotional capital in people you consider hopeless, low self-esteem losers? If you keep telling a women that you are her inferior and a loser, WHY THE HELL IS SHE GOING TO WANT TO HAVE INTIMATE RELATIONS WITH YOU?
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Challenge’s comments are pretty accurate, as are Roissy’s 16 commandments of poon (frequent hot sex and flirting with other women, in particular, have helped me keep my wife in line). A funny thing happened the other night, however. I was at a party and introduced myself to a woman who had been dating a friend of mine for a few months. I had never met her before, but I’ve known the friend for years. I’m standing before this woman, with another female friend at my side, and my wife on my other side. I had no intention of turning this woman on, but within two minutes, she forgot the other two women were there and starting getting into an obsessive conversation with me. She was giving off a ton of IOIs, to the point where my wife walked away and beckoned me to follow. I sauntered over, and found that my wife was really pissed at the woman. It wasn’t that the woman was turned on by me, but that she was so blatant about it and disregarded the fact that my wife was standing right there. My wife said, “why didn’t she just come out and say ‘let’s go fuck?” Ultimately, the woman followed me around the room enough with her eyes and looked for opportunities to approach me again that my wife wanted to go home. I’ve told my wife before that women don’t care if a man is married….they will flirt with him if they like him. I guess she knew that, but she had never seen a woman so aggressive with me, and in her very presence. Oh yeah, the woman’s boyfriend (my friend of several years) was also at the party. Poor fucker.
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Sounds dead on, although commitment is pretty decent to have and guarantees a longer life so I’d liked to hear the alpha way of saying that?
🙂 Sheru
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doug1
“Penelope Cruz is just smokin’ in Vicky Christina Barcelona.”
Yeah.
I remember seeing her in Jamón, jamón back when I was a baby G living in Barcelona.
She was like 18 in that movie.
Fly.
I remember thinking, I bet she would be a big star in the US. (and I remember thinking I wanted to swoop her and smoke hashish joints with her).
One of the few times I was right about something.
– MPM
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I’m learning that relationship “game” comes down to a few things. 1. Having something else going on that’s cooler than her (ie, your mission).
Question: what do you do when it turns out the girl you’re working on is, in actual fact, cooler than you, i.e., leads a more exciting life?
I’ve stumbled on this one before.
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Great post Roissy. I’ve actually used a few of these lines in my past and boy did it come back to haunt me.
I once used the “I will always love you” line to try to get myself out of a rut with a girl and it just made the her not like me anymore. Her pussy dried up the mojave desert after I said that and needless to say, the relationship was soon over.
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Tupac Chopra
“Question: what do you do when it turns out the girl you’re working on is, in actual fact, cooler than you, i.e., leads a more exciting life?”
Lie.
– MPM
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“I will always love you” really means, “I won’t completely hate you after we break up, so why don’t you go ahead and do the dirty work for me?”
JME, of course.
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“I don’t deserve you” is obnoxious, because then it puts the ball in your court to explain all the ways that he DOES deserve you. Blah blah blah. It’s blatantly fishing for compliments.
Do men really have to be told not to be pitifully needy goop-slingers? I suppose they must.
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Even something as mundane as the color red has a deep sexual connotation for females.
Just what is it about the color red that does that? Is it because it suggests the flush of redness of the skin during arousal? A lot of my female co-workers have taken to wearing red heels lately.The combination of red with high heels is particularly suggestive.Any further thoughts on this 11?
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So true. Preach it, Roissy.
I’m in a relationship but ever since I discovered your site, Roissy, I’ve been beating the beta from my every cell. And it bears nothing but fruit.
For example, last Friday I told the woman I was going out for one drink with some friends. She started in with “don’t drink too much” as I was walking out the door.
Old me: “Okay, honey, I won’t!”
New and improved me: “Jesus lady!” And then a quick walk out the door with no looking back.
Now, I had intended on one quick drink but you know how these things can lead on, so I ended up staying out for more like 4 or 5. At three different bars.
So I get home and she’s all set to pout. She’s in bed, watching tv, ready to be stand-offish.
Old-me: try to worm my way back into her graces with apologies.
New-me: Makes a joke about her being pissy and then initiates sex.
She warmed right up and rather than a small fight that lingers for days, we were right back to normal and she was back to making me lunch in the morning.
Lesson? All set to pout = all set to put-out, if you’re willing to be the man in the relationship and not “the partner” or whatever other gender-killing euphemism-speak one might use.
And such examples abound.
You, Roissy, are a prophet. You’ve changed my life.
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“Even something as mundane as the color red has a deep sexual connotation for females.”
One of my trademarks is red shirts and red pocket squares (not always worn at the same time) worn with custom suits.
It is true girls respond well to the color red.
Pretty much 100% of the time I wear a red shirt, custom suit and pocket square I swoop fly girls.
However, my case study is inconclusive.
Because I swoop mad amounts of fly girls in other colors as well.
– MPM
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Having been clinically diagnosed as Bi-polar and having experienced Mania, I feel I have some insight to share. Bi-polar mania= supreme confidence= state of PURE ALPHA.
Pretty Boy, are you for real? I know a bi-polar person and I can see the subjective experience of being PURE ALPHA during a manic episode.
But it’s 100% subjective. Unless the episode is very mild, no one else sees this person as an alpha, or whatever else he/she thinks he is.
A person on a real manic episode does have delusions of grandeour, but it’s all in his head. In everyone’s eyes, he’s liek those mumbling street people, except for the smell.
He does really stupid things, says things that make no sense, and acts disconnected from reality. If you care about this person, it’s really sad to watch them in this condition.
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“I love you more than you will ever know.”
Because you’re too stupid!
“I thought about your smile today.”
… while I wondered why you won’t get your teeth fixed.
“I want to kiss you all over and make love to you all night.”
Of course, it’ll be over in 90 seconds, but I want to do better.
“My gargantuan member throbs for your squeezebox.”
Please don’t giggle at the gargantuan part …. please!
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Very true…Desperation is the worst turn off any guy has ever shown me.
My man frequently uses…
“I love you more than you will ever know.”
in between flirting with other women, etc…If he actually emasculated himself by not checking out other womens “assets” I would wonder if he was turning asexual or worse.
These rules do go both ways though. I would hate to be seen as some snivilling needy chick. It zaps all the interest out of any man. It’s always better to exude a confidence that even if he walked away right now, you could be getting “comforted” by some other guy in a heart beat…
But quite frankly as to the comment on being with SKITTLES MAN? I wouldn’t want him or the pretentious yet, spineless wedding guy from yesterday’s post… both are extremes.
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doug1
Thanks for the advice and encouragement.
Right now, I have nothing to add but just wanted to acknowledge your post.
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Absolute worst line of all:
“I’d like you to shave.”
Peter
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Blighter,
I know your story. However, I didn’t have Roissy to teach me these things. I had to learn them on my own during years of marriage. I think the learning process, the trial-and-error, has made me a better man….it’s one thing to read it and apply it in real life, but it’s quite another to take up the fight alone, with no one to guide you, and suffer the scrapes and bruises along the way. When I discovered this blog a few months ago, so much of it rang true because I had lived it myself.
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PA:
Certain bipolar people can do amazingly well with women or make tons of cash while on a high. Some bipolar people do actually turn into real aphas in that state, especially if they are highly intelligent. Many great artists have just this kind of pattern. It’s not just subjective.
Of course, if you are not so smart or generally mediocre in other ways, then yeah it’s just a pathetic delusion.
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Tupac Chopra
Lie works for the one night G man swoop but not so well for a longer fling or thing.
Be irrationally confidant, including about your own “missions”.
Most important of all, don’t let her think you really believe her life and thing is better. That’s fatal. For her not to think that you do, it’s best that you don’t: irrational confidence.
Picture this scenario. A right young NY model who’s actually not stupid and is living the fast party life is on a photo shoot down in Costa Rico. She meets this Costa Rican fisherman in a bar, who’s older, not bad looking but not fabulous, and a bit weathered. He’s got stories about the sea and his life. He speaks with quiet confidence and with a sense of wisdom. She just might fuck him.
Take the same guy who’s asking all about her party life in the big city, all impressed, thinking how wonderful it would be to go to some of them and so on. That guy who looks exactly the same. She’s totally bored. What does he add? He hasn’t got a prayer.
Same thing really if what you do is sequence DNA and generate genetics theories for a living. Just be absolutely sure that that’s where it’s at, science wise. Oh and you’ve got this other fun stuff you love to do. Yeah I suppose you do need to have some fun stuff you do or it helps.
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Premise already fails. Might as well discuss gaming unicorns.
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[…] […]
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roissy
“I love you more than you will ever know.”
This one borders on beta. Very questionable. Are you getting soft in your old age?
omw
“I don’t deserve you” is obnoxious, because then it puts the ball in your court to explain all the ways that he DOES deserve you. Blah blah blah. It’s blatantly fishing for compliments.
Agreed. This is false modest/ego disguised as humility. Don’t be fooled. If you were to agree with them, they’d be royally pissed. It’s worth a try.
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Absolute worst line of all:
“I’d like you to shave.”
Peter
Major red flag, that one.
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Thursday, yes, the bipolar thing exists in degrees. In fact, like you say, spells of artistic inspiration are sometimes recognized by psychiatrist as mild manic episodes.
The bipolar girl I know is a sweetheart, and a really bright, nice young thing. But her episides are likely more acute than those of a person who accomplished productive feats (making money, doing art, etc.)
When she’s having an episode, she her bahavior is more random than productive, though subjectively she is extremely focused on the subject of her mania.
The alpha-feeling that accompanies a mild manic episode is a true high, and peopel will often induce it and then push it higher, similar to how someone wiht a beer buzz will start guzzling more beer to increase the high. With diminishing returns.
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“Go get the razor”
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“I love you more than you will ever know.”
It’s how you say it. Promiscuous “I love you’s” are to be avoided, except if you can make them sound passionate instead of earnest.
I used to do that with American girls while taking advantage of my slight foreign accent, gazing into her eyes. They melted, without exception.
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Ya, I used to have mild manic depression as a teen, and I eventually learned that increasing the mania led to a deeper depression. I learned to regulate my mind – somewhat with meditation – and it went away.
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I used to have mild manic depression as a teen, and I eventually learned that increasing the mania led to a deeper depression.
I can relate. In my teens and 20s I’d have these natural highs, and then long days of black depression. In fact, my parents were concerned. Oddly (and happily) it ended completely in my early 30s.
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Ya, PA – I’ve heard of a related story. A lot of people suffer from depression in the States, due to very high levels of stress, and very low levels of fresh pussy.
After moving to a more slow paced climb, the case of the nerves eventually subside, and the depression is forgotten.
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clime
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Oddly (and happily) it ended completely in my early 30s.
Something of the same thing happened to me in my 30s. It was really bad in my twenties, which wasn’t exactly helpful with women.
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which wasn’t exactly helpful with women
Heh, I remember two separate occasions of when I whirlwind-charmed a chick while on a mild-manic high, only to meet her for the second date, without any wit or energy.
Got nowhere with the first one, but kissed the second one.
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I can relate to the depression stories. It can be fairly (indeed totally) game killing.
I remember someone (one of the female posters?) talking of Byronic game. Perhaps that is the answer for those milder down periods (you know, the lost soul, sad puppy dog game).
A dose of mania (well mild anyway) is something I could probably live with.
I have no experience of mania but depression is like running at half-speed through a deep sludge. I imagine mania could be the opposite, running at 150 percent with the wind at your back. That does offer the opportunity for great achievement (in game, career, or life).
[Hey, even my Gravatar feels blue in sympathy]
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From my ex, “I love you, now don’t cry!” I wasn’t going to. I was just shocked that he actually said it. #1 don’t say I love you if you don’t mean it and just the three words will do. More is not better in this case. If you have to explain it, quantify it, or expound on it, it loses it’s meaning.
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Wait, I take that back. It doesn’t lose it’s “meaning” it loses it’s meaninglessness. Love has no meaning. Trying to give it meaning is ridiculous.
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PA,
Yes I am for real. Yes I take mood stabilizers. And no, I did not say that mania was a healthy and beautiful thing. I stated that through my manic experience, I have insights into what makes a man ALPHA vs Beta. And I will state it again- confidence is the difference. Mania is a psychiatric condition when confidence outstrips rational reasoning abilities- at this break delusional schizophrenia occurs. And yes, delusions are no laughing matter. Trust me.
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“I couldn’t go on without you.”
What she hears: “If you dump me I’ll kill myself.”
^^^very true. That makes alarm bells go off in my head.
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Pretty boy:
Change your name.
Only one “boy” can rule in these ya hear parts.
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collegeboy=schoolboy?
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Chic: collegeboy=schoolboy?
Dam right sistah!
Thats my name, try not to pervert it with your thoughts.
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Good point, collegeboy. Its about time I upgraded myself to MAN lol
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Chic,
If you check the Creepy Children thread I left some additional comments for you. Any further questions, holla. I don’t mind giving you my views and even advice, as I kinda see you as a younger sister.
O
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good-looking man:
Heh nice comeback. I did not expect it, nonetheless welcome to the site. Not too long ago I was a virgin to reality.
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I haven’t been following the discussion and this is probably off-topic, but file this under ‘decline of Western civilization’
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/05/20/the_shift_towards_single_motherhood_96591.html
In 2007, nearly 40 percent of all babies born in the United States were born to single women
I never knew the number was THAT high. That’s shocking.
I wonder what % of that are professional SWPL women and % are teenage / young-20s poor people.
It’s gotta be skewed to the latter, right?
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The truth is that no beta could pull off a sweet love line with the word “poop” in it!
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Okay, yeah this one actually makes sense for once. No one likes a creep who says wishy-washy nonsense. I wouldn’t call them “betas” but its more of a manifestation of “nice guy syndrome.” Little bitch boys who play victim or play the role of the so very nice sensitive guy, while they are actually pretty creepy manipulative cunts. I’ve been friends with the type, and its disturbing how they treat their girls. Needless to say I didn’t stay friends with any of those vampires for long. Buying them gifts, calling them all the time, generally smothering them in their insecurity. Confidence combined with affection are necessary in both partners.
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Oh yeah, and that painting on your front page is lulz. Seen your real life photo, and you got yourself a little gut and a cheesy haircut (creepy pedo-eyes too ugh). You must aim for some real gutter skanks if you get as much tail as you say 😉
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Roissy,
Some examples of alternate Alpha lines would be helpful to show alongside, so that the contrast becomes more obvious.
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Mu I don’t mind giving you my views and even advice, as I kinda see you as a younger sister.
No problem, I think I said that I see you and MB as e-uncles so that’s why I ask you questions if I want a male point of view from a non family member. Anyway, I’ll start turning those free drinks down but I hope I don’t offend anyone.
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“Beta passion is needy, desperate, cloying, self-effacing. ”
Thug Passion:
One part Alize (makes a man Cassius Clay)
One part Cristal
– MPM
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Anyway, I’ll start turning those free drinks down but I hope I don’t offend anyone.
If you do, you will indirectly receive better fortune in life, and set your self apart from the parasitic females.
If you keep accepting them, however, know that you are sowing the seeds of a backlash (and most women lack the imagination to visualize what the backlash, whether active or passive, would be like). Remember what Obsidian said : every action causes and equal and opposite reaction.
It may not be at the same time, or to/by the same person, but it happens.
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From Backdoor Man…
“I’m standing before this woman, with another female friend at my side, and my wife on my other side. I had no intention of turning this woman on, but within two minutes, she forgot the other two women were there and starting getting into an obsessive conversation with me. She was giving off a ton of IOIs…”
I was waiting for the conclusion you left out–the one that occurred after you got back home. I’m betting that your wife gave you some initial crap over the whole incident, ran a few shit tests by you–likely more so than normal. (Every woman will differ in when she stops with that.) But the final net result was a little more “backdoor” for Backdoor Man. And when she looked at you the next day, her eyes were just a little more shiny.
Strange the way that works.
You have arrived.
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Some examples of alternate Alpha lines would be helpful to show alongside, so that the contrast becomes more obvious.
I take that back – I see that the first few lines are meant to be alpha lines. But some of those can be Beta if done with the wrong frame. Hence, it was not obvious that they were clearly alpha.
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Chic Noir,
Are you aware of how quickly a woman’s looks drop off after the age of 30? Whether she had kids or not? Do you know how the male attention a woman is accustomed to simply vanishes, in short order?
Are you similarly aware that a man’s market value (Game + Wealth + Humor + Looks) does not drop off, as long as he doesn’t get fat, bald, broke, etc.?
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@tood- I’m not so sure that most women know that the average man thinks a free drink is suppose to get him some. I’ve always thought it was suppose to buy the man a few minutes to talk to the female so he can sell himself to her. That I allow as well as a thank you but some guys don’t approach after buying a drink. They just wave at you from their side of the room.
Now dinner on the other hand, is a different story. I’ve heard debates about that one since I was a teenager. If I flat out don’t like a guy, I won’t accept dinner from him. but if I like him or I’m unsure about him, before i would but now I’ll try to do mu’s way. No homie, can’t go out with you cause I ain’t giving it up on the first date, and I’m too cheap/frugal to pay half.
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http://www.imeem.com/pride96/music/STwFjPqH/nore-drink-champ/
“I don’t drink that Hypnotiq bullshit
That ain’t a man’s drink, the Alize is bullshit”
– NORE aka Melvin Flynt da Hustler
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I’ve always thought it was suppose to buy the man a few minutes to talk to the female so he can sell himself to her.
Ultra Beta.
A man with Game does not need to ‘buy an opportunity to sell himself to her’. The man is the prize that the woman has to work to earn.
You still live in a frame of over-inflated self-worth. Clearly, you have zero understanding what powers Game bestows onto a man, and how Game is conducted.
Yet, I guarantee that most of the guys you have been attracted to, have not spent money on you. You don’t have to admit that here, but you know it is true.
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tood Are you aware of how quickly a woman’s looks drop off after the age of 30?
not all women. but yea I understand what your “saying”.
Whether she had kids or not?
for some it, my point is, having kids at 25 will take 5 years off if they destroy her body.
Do you know how the male attention a woman is accustomed to simply vanishes, in short order?
yea, but most women say they notice the change at 40.
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So much of game is pure confidence, and sometimes irrational confidence, but there’s a limit to how irrational your confidence can be before it’s more of a delusion. For instance, take a reasonably well-dressed guy who makes a medium salary and doesn’t get laid regularly, give him the irrational confidence, and you get someone who isn’t bad with women even though he doesn’t have any outstanding characteristics. Now, take a fat geeky slob in a video-game themed t-shirt with pizza stains all over it and give him the same confidence and you have someone who’s just deluded, and it shows.
It at least has to be within the realm of possibility that the confidence you exude is rational.
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G Manifesto:
I prefer to take it old school.
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Tood–
I don’t think any of the lines are presented as supremely alpha. The first are merely ok. I.e. can be uttered by an alpha in the right circumstances without creating a beta effect.
In other words none of those lines in Roissy’s post are going to advance your alpha status.
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Age 19-27 : A woman’s beauty is at its peak
Age 27-33 : A gentle decline in beauty
Age 33 onwards : Steep decline in beauty
Does anyone dispute this?
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tood Yet, I guarantee that most of the guys you have been attracted to, have not spent money on you.
Reggie bush-no
russel wong-no
denzel(15-25 years)-no
Blair underwood-no
hill harper-no
No most of the men I’ve been attracted to haven’t spent money on me but that ‘s because I’ve haven’t dated them or gotten close enough to have a conversation with them so we can see what the chemistry is like between the two of us.
The man is the prize that the woman has to work to earn.
I don’t work for nothing but a paycheck buddy. My drive isn’t high enough that I want to chase a man around a bar/town/phone etc…
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excellent comment random.
Tood, read Jamal’s comment.
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I’ve haven’t dated them or gotten close enough to have a conversation with them so we can see what the chemistry is like between the two of us.
In other words, they are out of your league. This means YOU have to do the chasing. They will not ‘buy you a drink in order to get a few minutes of your time so that they can sell themselves’.
My drive isn’t high enough that I want to chase a man around a bar/town/phone etc…
If a man with Game has run his Game on you, you won’t even realize that you are chasing HIM. Re-read the skittles post.
This is what Roissy did when he got you to do a same-night lay, without a condom, for free.
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@Chic noir
“Anyway, I’ll start turning those free drinks down but I hope I don’t offend anyone.”
Interesting…I can’t think of any of my close girlfriends (who drink) who would accept a free drink from a guy. They don’t want to be put in a position where they’d feel they “owe” him anything, and they figure that since they have their own money, they should buy their own drinks.
I, on the other hand, drink water when I go to bars. And yeah, I’ve been known to accept an ice water or two 😉
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You guys must be doing wonders for sales of Rohypnol. Seriously.
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Todd:
As much as i like to fuck with chics head, its safe to say that roissy really didn’t fuck chic raw.
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@lilgrl -I can’t have more than 2-3 drinks in one sitting for a number of reasons.
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@tood – I’d say the peak starts much earlier, around 16. physically at least – behaviourally there’s still a lot of child there (to say nothing of the law). and the downslope period can be very variable. i know a lot of women who get more attractive as they get older, until the physical wall hits- that may be due to maturity/confidence. still, take a look at Halle Berry (to take a 10 outlier) at 23 and then 33. she’s better older, and still going strong. probably a lot of high-grade Hollywood upkeep there, though, because her career depends on her looks – so, bad example, i guess.
@chic – i saw Denzel once hanging out in a club in LA. Awesome guy but … he’s shorter than me … 😉
@doug – yeah, I didn’t like the first line especially. but the point was taken. where’s your green-eyed heloise today?
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tood, I don’t do the chasing. Even if Reggie bush was hangign out in front of my building, I would not chase him. I would take a look to see how much he looks like the photos& video I’ve seen of him. Then I would turn away and keep it moving.
You sneeky plucker, you gotten more than 3 from me.
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@maurice- OH MY GOD!!! How short would you say he is?
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@lady rain- really? you think this is all about date-rape? uh, no. read some more.
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Lady Rain
Candy is dandy
Liquor is quicker
but Rohypnol is in a class of its own.
But we all know that game trumps all.
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Does anyone dispute this?
In a purely visual sense, 14-16 is a girl’s peak of beauty, early 20s for some late bloomers or girls who were awkward as teens.
But going purely by visual attractiveness kind of misses the point, or the fullness of a woman’s attractiveness. It misses the whole psyche/eros dimension to sex.
Make a mental experiment: you come across two high quality photos, each with a different nude or topless woman. The first photo is of a solid 8, maybe a 9; a random model, let’s say. The other nude pic is of a cute girl, a 7, you know personally.
Upon seeing which pic is your heart likely to suddenly race? Which pic are you more likely to jerk off to that evening? The hot unknown dime-a-dozen internet naked chick, or a cute girl you know in real life?
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collegeboy
“I prefer to take it old school.”
Me too.
That Isley Brothers track is an all time classic.
Here is some rolling in the drop top, puffing hashish and G-13, curb serving fly girls type track:
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Chic noir
Calm yourself. IMDB says about six feet.
Even allowing for exageration by agent, he is probably over 5’10”.
And he can probably afford dinner.
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“”””””””””””Roissy,
Poon Commandment III: You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority. (Chicks dig guys drawing up blueprints for world domination.)”””””””””””””””””
Hell yeaaa!!!
I think empire building gonna work well.
But yea I don’t think I will give a fuck about buying drinks or saying lets go fly to some island and chill this big city smog blows.
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@chic – he’s not short, he’s about 6′. but i’m almost 6’2″. that line was meant to be a joke – I mean, I’m in the same room as one of the biggest, best looking male movie stars out there, rich, famous etc. how do i compare with him? well, down the scale in every way but that one. was meant to be self-deprecating. also kevin connolly from entourage was also there – he is *very* short.
had i gone to that same bar the previous might, someone told me, i would have rubbed shoulders with mike tyson *and* russell crowe the same night. that was the summer that place had just opened so it was still the hot club.
at a different place also stood next to the black dude from CSI (gary dourdan) at a bar – he is tall and was very nice.
there – got the starf*cking out of my system …
also, why can’t you have more than 2 drinks? do you become too easy…? 😉
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Here is a track where if you put this on with a fly girl and can’t swoop her, your problems don’t end there:
http://www.imeem.com/rnbmusic2/music/Yl5y11A4/the-impressions-man-oh-man/
– MPM
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@chic p.s. like *hell* you wouldn’t chase reggie if he was in front of your building. calling you out on that.
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I guess I may be beta I have been talking cuddly to my woman for over 4 years he he he.
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Plan to do it the rest of my life.
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maurice —
I’m making her sleep and study more. That’s all I’m going to say.
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heh! you can tell her what to do from across the pond, eh? *there’s* dominance for you …
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@default- I would want coffee with denzel because I would have to many questions to ask to try to eat anything.
mauricealso, why can’t you have more than 2 drinks? do you become too easy…? NO more like giggly and tippsy. Every little thing becomes so funny to me and I don’t like losing control esp in a public place.
chic p.s. like *hell* you wouldn’t chase reggie if he was in front of your building. calling you out on that.
Well he has a girl friend for one. Two, every other woman will be there ogling too so what’s the point of chasing him. Reggie is so good-looking that even if he weren’t in the nfl, I’m women would throw themselves at him. He has that pretty boy face that just does something to your heart and much it does to other places.
His pull is like that of obama/clinton alpha & sweet good-looking beta combined. That’s a very dangerous combination for a woman. If he had “talent”, I’m sure Reggie could drive me to drinking if not all out crazy so I’ll pass.
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G Manifesto,
“wacked out on Rotterdam E-Tabs, Chronic smoke and Alize back in 1992.”
–> this can’t be true. until about 1994, when all the west coast gangster rappers started singing its praises, the only place you would have found alizé would’ve been an old ladys liquor cabinet.
just fact checking, bro
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“””””””””””””””””””””“I will always love you.”
Great. You just gave her carte blanche to act like a high maintenance prom queen.””””””””””””””””
This is where you incorporate the .5 cal eagle and she understands she will always love you too.
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@chich – aw c’mon- are you saying you wouldn’t go head-to-head with kim kardashian for him? if he were on your doorstep? not even chat him up?? see, this is a test-case for many of our ideas here. the alpha dude is the one women want to chase and feel they are not worthy of – basically your words above – yet an alpha female doesn’t have that fear. i had you pegged for the latter, at least in part …?
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G manifesto:
Old school is the best, but some modern music still touches the soul as well. Like this
Driving downtown at night, top down, with some fly chica on your side dress to impress, while the night is yours for the taking.
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Even better:
“You’re in big trouble, little girl.”
—
If your relationship has gotten to the point where giving her just one look (which is at once loving and dangerous), or one firm hand to the small of her back**, is enough to get her to arch her back, quicken her breath, look at you with big, loving, pleading, apologetic, intrigued eyes, and perhaps move her hands instinctively behind her back…
…you’ve got it made.
In the best relationships, you don’t have to say anything at all.
—
**Or grabbing a big handful of her hair at the roots, pulling her into you, and giving her a kiss that will make her forget that other men even exist, forever.
But, I digress.
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succinctly condensed. this is why I read here. that, and lilgirl’s big ass.
i had this same convo (not about asian ass) with my pals friday at a jazz bar. thru the din, it was clear that what were once Alpha males who’d been married a while had clearly forgotten most of this. Cinema and TV have also worn much away
Married “I love yous” count less.
Komfort Kills
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maurice —
It’s caring.
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maurice @chich – aw c’mon- are you saying you wouldn’t go head-to-head with kim kardashian for him? if he were on your doorstep? not even chat him up??
No girl fight for Reggie. He belongs to kim and I know they are a couple so what’s the point. I will only be a jump off for him, nothing more.
he were on your doorstep? not even chat him up?
Yea, I chat him up if he said something to me first, why not. I get a ton of hate for every other female. I would have a load of questions for him too but it wouldn’t go further than that cause I can’t have him.
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MNL –
I was thinking the same thing.
That scenario happened to me almost exactly like that…both pre-game when I was a beta-ized husband and after I had my eyes opened to the realities of game.
With very similar situations, my second experience in which I played it off using game principles resulted in her literally throwing me down and screwing the shit outta me…while the first time it happened, we ended up in a huge fight with me begging for forgiveness and her just getting angrier and angrier the more I tried to get back into her good grace.
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theres one reason
kim kardashian will always win THAT battle lol
moot point
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In a purely visual sense, 14-16 is a girl’s peak of beauty
No, no, no, no, no. Teenage girls are way too skinny. Even their faces tend to be a bit gaunt.
20-24 is the hotness peak, and I believe the science backs me up on this.
(Teenagers do have better skin though.)
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@maurice-Let me tell you about another pop star who endeared me to him….lil wayne. He isn’t my type and I don’t really care for his music either. I’ve always wondered how he was able make women fall in love with him. Well he uses Southern Gentlemanly charm read… not beta spineless “I’ll kill myself without you”. looking at the interview o he did with Katie Kurick, as high, ignorant, and dumb as he came across, from what I’ve seen, he always called her “miss katie”. Just something about that made my heart skip a beat. I read 3 groupie tails about him, the women only had nice things to say about him. Both his talent & the way he treated them. Keep in mind these women were groupies yet he treated them with the same type of warmth and respect most men would a girl friend. One woman wrote, that he held her and they went to sleep together on the first night!
Ha how sweet is that.
I think I’ve embarrassed Whiskey. Haven’t heard a peep out of him today, not one single mention about Armageddon via the betas.
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PA-
Yes I would.
I’m very much in the Gannon school re the non perversion of men finding girls in that age range sexually attractive. As well, there is a special something about when a girls first blossoms into sexuality, especially if a bunch of physical and cultural things come together.
However, I think girls tend to be at their individual most sexually attractive in their twenties, with 25 being a good guess. However, in the current metro America, they are often getting hardened by that time – by sluttificiation. That can often be seen on faces.
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Babaero Serrada
“–> this can’t be true. until about 1994, when all the west coast gangster rappers started singing its praises, the only place you would have found alizé would’ve been an old ladys liquor cabinet.
just fact checking, bro”
I was a pioneer.
Alizé Gold Passion, the “original” Alizé, is a blend of passion fruit juice and other exotic fruits blended with fine French cognac. It was introduced in 1986.
If it makes you feel better, substitute it with St. Ides.
Or Cisco.
– MPM
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fucking christ, i never realized how much chic babbles.
she must have a big pair
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schoolboy, check out how to reacts to having his father’s name.
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I’m really into the late-20s look now, assuming the girl takes care of herself. The sophistication she develops during the course of her 20s goes a long way.
At 22, I started despairing of my limited access to teen girls. Today, they’re hardly on my radar, except when their ‘omigods’ at the gym make me wanna drive a pencil thru my eye.
(caveat – the innocent freshness of a teen girl is something sublime and in a category of its own. The whole of Western literature rests on Laura and Beatrice. But then again, I lack Petrarch’s and Dante’s, um, singleminded focus.)
I suppose at 50, mid-30s will be where it’s at for me. Good thing I married someone 12 years younger. I’ll always have a hot woman by my side. Goes without saying that I have an obligation to stay attractive, fit and good looking much more so. One of the reasons I like this blog — keeps me in touch.
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Maurice, whoever-
God, I shouldn’t have opened this can of worms in responding to Maurice’s question, didn’t mean to, but must correct any wrong impression created by my brevity.
There’s nothing at all bad going on for Bhetti.
We’ve been talking and there are strong feelings and refocusing time priorities. That’s all. I’m sure she’ll show up back here in a while. Exams are rolling in.
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collegeboy:
Old school is the best, but some modern music still touches the soul as well. Like this
problem is, that’s still a remake of an old school joint, which was still hotter.
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PA —
As it happens….
Great, actually.
No news?
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Sheri Fresonke Harper
commitment is pretty decent to have and guarantees a longer life so I’d liked to hear the alpha way of saying that?
Sheru
Commitment is like Car insurance or prostitution.
You resent having to pay for it and you hope you never have to use it but like taking your morning dump its strangley comforting….
I hope this helps
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Doug man up fly in and help her do the flash cards. It is mostly memorization right?
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Dave from Hawaii…
“the first time it happened, we ended up in a huge fight with me begging for forgiveness and her just getting angrier and angrier the more I tried to get back into her good grace.”
…And that right there is a perfect example of why game is so valuable in an LTR. Once one understands the “why” behind this outcome vs. your other, there’s a light bulb that goes off in your head. You’ll never again find yourself sleeping on the sofa wondering, “what the F&$K did I do?” …Moreover, since I found game I don’t think I’ve even spent a night on the sofa (though I told her once or twice that she needed to sleep there)!
I swear… the next time I hear of some couple-friend seeing a marriage counselor, dammit, I’m going to pull the poor bastard aside, bitch-slap him, give him a book on LTR game and this URL.
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Here is Roissy on monday night.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3394/3526232221_0aab4f474a.jpg?v=0
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Gunny —
She doesn’t need that. She’s a very smart girl. She just needs to re focus. It’s not like she totally hasn’t. Just slipped a bit. My fault. I didn’t know.
But gunny as for where I fly or not I’m not going to report ya know?
I’m living with a wonderful girl in her early 30’s who’s crazy about me, and thinks/realizes that my flirting is her cross to bear. And knows about B in general. (Makes her v. jealous, makes for great sex, makes for need to stroke. She loves me so much and I love her back.) I’m supposed to destroy her?
Besides B is ridiculously too young for me or really more vice versa. She knows my age. But still, in RL?
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Chic, Tood,
My thing is, in our time where Women make at least as much if not more than single Men, WHY should I pay for dinner and we have no relationship between us? Because “its the right thing to do”? Bunk dat. You either get Chivalry, or Equality-not both.
And actually Chic, I’ve had a few Women do what you said above-they refused to go Dutch. Music to my ears, because they just outed themselves as wanting to get something for nothing.
“Next!”…
O
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@ Obsidian —
Yep. That’s why what Thug is saying makes sense. Unpopular among many of the red pill takers, but it makes sense.
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Mu- It’s because most women don’t care to be a lay that much. that’s why we won’t put in the effort. As I said before, most men are ready to go at any time but most female only a few days each month.
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I suppose a subject/object inversion of the beta lines results in somewhat less terrible expressions.
“You’re soooo lucky to have me”
“You don’t deserve me”
“You love me soooo much”
“I pooped in your toilet and you haven’t flushed for a week have you???”
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W/all due respect Chic, NO-the real reason why so many Women “won’t put in the effort” is because they know good and well there are many AFCs out there who will pay for nice nights out on the town for them, Men whom they have absolutely NO intention of breaking off a weak handjob, let alone the booty. I keep telling you Chic, Women know the deal a lot more than they’re willing to admit. O aint havin’ it.
A question to the gentlemen of the forum-of the last say, 10 Women you’ve dated, how many have offered, *w/o your prompting them to do so first*, paid for a date? And, of these Women, how many of them consider themselves to be “independent”?
Comments?
O
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@obsidian,
because deep in her paleolithic brain, she can only feel cared for by a man who demonstrates resources for her. No amount of logical urban accounting can change this. I realized after many years of marriage, that my husband always paid the check, and that I didn’t know how to handle the layers of credit card paper presented to me. This despite the fact that I earned 40% of our dual income. I subconsciously felt “card for”, “attended to” when he handled the credit card presentation at a restaurant.
You might avoid all this by avoiding dinner dates. If women choose the date venue, there’d be less meal dates.
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“”””””””””Doug1,
Besides B is ridiculously too young for me or really more vice versa. She knows my age. But still, in RL?””””””””””””””
Oh so you where just playing with her. Isn’t that cute.
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anony,
I think this, more or less is natural, and that Anglosphere feminism is the perversion, extremely unusual, and unlikely to last.
Despite the fact that I’ve been making out like a bandit, I’d join a revolution.
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anony–
I’d probably join kind of late, with serreptious help before, and then rise rapidly to a major position.
Just sayin.
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gunny
Don’t be a fucking asshole. I’m fucking crazy about her. Leave it alone.
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LILGirl wrote :
They don’t want to be put in a position where they’d feel they “owe” him anything, and they figure that since they have their own money, they should buy their own drinks.
Bravo. I commend you for having the right attitude, and the gods of reciprocity will reward you even as they punish most other women.
Sadly, most women have a far more entitled attitude.
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Mu, whoever asks who out on a date should be the one who pays. I don’t ask men out on dates, so I don’t think I should have to pay but I’ma play things your way.
because deep in her paleolithic brain, she can only feel cared for by a man who demonstrates resources for her. No amount of logical urban accounting can change this
anony, you have a good point there.
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LOL Doug ya used sneaky tactics to get her but now don’t want her lol
Shit already wearing out now that there is no competition and everyone is rooting for you.
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Chicpea wrote :
tood, I don’t do the chasing.
That is why you aren’t ‘getting’ either. Why will the men you listed choose you, among their plentiful choices?
You sneeky plucker, you gotten more than 3 from me.
I can get as many as I want from you. It’s called Game.
Do not, however, interpret this as interest of the other sort. You do not appeal to me that way.
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I’m on you and bhetti’s side lol I am even rooting for you to make it. Sadly I guess not meant to be.
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Anony,
Again: WHY should I, or any Man, pay up front, for a dinner, etc w/a Woman w/whom I have no (sexual) relationship with? A Woman who in all likelihood makes as much if not more than me? A Woman who no doubt, has had no problems reaping the bennies of feminism? Who views herself as independent, and believes in equality? On what realworld, 21st century basis should I do this? Hmm?
See, this is why some Women despise Game, because it exposes, as Roissy puts it, the pretty lies a lot of Woman hide behind. In your case, you have a presumed sexual relationship w/your hubbie, fair enough. But taing a gal out on a date where no such relationship exists? I don’t think so.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in going Dutch-we can still enjoy each other’s company. But you see, when push comes to shove, Women don’t really want to do this, because they know they can get plently of Chumleys to kick out hard currency *and get nothing back in return to show for it*.
I have every right to lookout for my interests, because I’ve been around long enough to know that not only will most Women certainly won’t, they also will have no problem in the least in taking your supplicant gifts. And then saying “thank you”, and you’re left w/the bill. Nope.
There has to be an equal exchange of resources, which is why I laidout my methods in previous posts. It has served me well-keep in mind please, that I maintain two Women. And have for some time now. They invest their wombs, upfront, and then we shall proceed. For I am a generous and kind lover.
The Obsidian
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tood being a toolWhy will the men you listed choose you, among their plentiful choices?
what you aren’t getting is the fact that I don’t care if they pick me or not. I’ve taken myself out of that race.
tood being a tool can get as many as I want from you. It’s called Game.
don’t fool yourself
Do not, however, interpret this as interest of the other sort. You do not appeal to me that way.
you’ve said this twice, two negatives make a positive.
not that I care, your not my type and perhaps that upsets you but don’t let it. I am 1 of 3billion.
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The paying thing: I’ve always liked to pay for dates and in fact was annoyed when my date insisted (not offered — insisted) that she pays for herself. Gotta feel like a man who’se in charge of the evening.
On the other hand, once I learned Game, my dates consisted of low-cost fun days/evenings out, not expensive dinners.
And in a way, there still was pecuniary reciprocation on the women’s part. Girls who liked me bought me little presents during the ocurse of our dating.
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Obsidian asked :
question to the gentlemen of the forum-of the last say,
None will offer to pay. But that does not mean you have to pay either. Remember, women are not leaders. The man must take the lead, as Obsidian himself always advises.
Here is what I do :
First meeting : Either a secluded seating area in a hotel (many of which I have scoped out for logistics), or at most, a coffee shop. I have a lot of Game-laden subject matter that I use here.
Second meeting : Either I invite her to go shopping with me for some nice threads because I value her female opinion (where she sees me spend a lot, but on MYSELF, not her). If I change my mind about the shirts I got, I can always return them another time.
or…
I invite her up to the observatory where we can use the telescope (very romantic, under the stars, etc.) Having a lot of knowledge about astronomy, but being able to weave it in poetic, NOT NERDY terms, is valuable.
By this time, you should be at step C2 of Mystery method (step 5 of 9).
Third meeting : Has to be at either of our homes, preferably mine. I cook something nice (which guys should know how to do). Play some music, dance a bit (I have a good-sized living room). This is the Seduction (S1-S3) part of Mystery Method.
It takes about 7 hours, start to finish, to get laid. This is my template for doing it.
I spent nothing on her (other than the ingredients for what I cooked). I often suggest to her to ‘choose a good wine’, which she does. THAT is how to get a woman to buy something for you, not splitting a restaurant tab, which can be tacky. Avoid the restaurant, period.
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Chicpea gasped :
don’t fool yourself
What is this now, #5? #6?
See what happens when the man calls the shots? As I said, I can get as many as I want from you. It is called Game.
Rule #6 of Game : Give a woman a tiny bit of what she wants, and then make her work for more.
Roissy executed this beautifully when he did a same-night lay with you, without condom, for free. The ‘for free’ part is the important part.
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@obsidian,
why?
-please reread my comments above. we can not change how we feel, even if we want to, or if logic calculates otherwise.
-etiquette and courtesy guides us that the person who does the inviting pays . This holds for platonic situations as well.
Women with intact egos will interpret your first date “dutch” strategy as poor manners and lack of care for her.
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Chic,
Again, w/all due respect, I have to deploy yet another Pretty Lie Bunker-buster Bomb:
Yup, lots of Women like to trot out the “whoever asks first should pay” rule. Now, let’s look at that, shall we?
Women know good and damn well they’ll rarely, if EVER have to ask a guy out, because of all that I’ve been telling you over the past day or so. Womn *know* this-and hence it provides yet another neat little out. The guys ask, they should pay. Forget the fact that most Women, you probably included, would recoil at the notion of being a Stepford Wifey. Forget the fact that again, most single Women living in big cities make more than single guys of similar age. And forget the fact that Women, you included Chic, have no problem making off w/the bennies of feminism-do you consider yourself independent? Do you believe in equality? Do you think you should have the right to an abortion if you want one-and NO ONE can interfere with said choice? If you answered “yes” to any or all of these, then how do you square any of that w/the old Chivalrous rules of “whoever asks should pay”-which really means, that guys should pay? Hmm?
Again, Women know there are plenty of desperate AFCs out there, all too willing to part w/their cash along w/their dignity as a Man, hoping and praying for a chance to share the same airspace w/a female. NOT. ME. We can enjoy each other’s company w/o any such considerations; only after a sexual relationship has been established, does Obsidian pay for stuff. By then, we will have made an explicit and implicit agreement. You will have pledged yourself to me, and I will do my duty accordingly. That, is a fair exchange.
Who among us could really argue with that?
O
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See, this is why some Women despise Game, because it exposes, as Roissy puts it, the pretty lies a lot of Woman hide behind.
It also exposes women as moochers, parasites, and hypocrites who care nothing about fairness or justice, and merely want to get away with this.
The mistake modern hos are making, however, is that they are abusing the goodwill that many good men genuinely had towards them. They have thus alienated and embittered men who would previously have gladly defended them, supported them, and encouraged their careers.
The backlash (passive and active) is coming soon enough. No later than 2020.
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anony wrote :
Women with intact egos will interpret your first date “dutch” strategy as poor manners and lack of care for her.
That is why men with Game don’t end up paying anything before getting laid.
Obsidian,
You are trying too hard to elicit some evidence of morality, reciprocity, good character, and a sense of justice from a woman (in this case, Chicpea). Don’t waste your energy, bro. Change your strategy to be along the lines of the 3 stages I wrote up below (which maps perfectly to Mystery Method). Then you won’t need to be a victim of female hypocrisy on this matter.
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@obsidian,
no need to spend any money to endure a woman to you initially.
But, you can not rewrite etiquette, and you can not rewrite 30,000 years of female mating preferences.
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@Tood,
your date selections sound fun.
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gunny–
You think we’re over? You have no idea. Joy is the word. Or one of them.
I really thought you’d be better than this. I would be to you.
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@Tood,
it exposes women as sound managers of resources. competent women screen for mates who will adequately provide for their children. money matters.
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Anonymous: “problem is, that’s still a remake of an old school joint, which was still hotter.”
Yea I knew that was a remake, its called sampling. J dilla just flipped it so good.
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tood Roissy executed this beautifully when he did a same-night lay with you, without condom, for free. The ‘for free’ part is the important part.
In 4 hrs, you’ve posted the same comment 4 times. Something tells me your just a little bit jealous.
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And the irony astounds and the stone was cracked. The gates of hell opened and another soul was written on the ledger.
And satan laughed with delight the day the music died.
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Tood, Anony,
I think you both misunderstand me.
When out in the field, I never discuss this stuff, I simply move out and execute my plan. Never had any problems.
Secondly, Anony, its very possible to execute and still be nice-in fact, one thing I’ve learned directly from Women, is to kill em with kindness. Much, much lethal than Asshole Game.
O
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anony it exposes women as sound managers of resources. competent women screen for mates who will adequately provide for their children. money matters.
Exactly and it’s the reason I couldn’t have a relationship with a slacker type beta. Other betas are not bad it’s just the slacker type that I can’t have a relationship with. Include with the slacker type the kind of man who won’t protect his woman and children.
btw, there’s a reason most woman prefer their mate to be taller.
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mu I’ve learned directly from Women, is to kill em with kindness. Much, much lethal than Asshole Game.
agreed, I really think ahole game works primarly with sick women who are full of drama.
O
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Obsidian,
Could you explain killing them with kindness?
I have tried what I would call kindness but it seems to be more beta BS that gets me no where.
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There was one guy in my unit in army who thought you should only have sex once a month. So there might be a guy out their with your values. You should put an ad out. I only want it around three times a month so the guy knows whats up. Maybe you will find someone compatible.
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catching up …
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We’re changing the goalposts yet again, ladies. W/all due respect.
Again: in an age where both marriage and fatherhoo d are a real cruel joke, does anyone w/half a brain take seriously the stuff said above? And even if one did, what does going Dutch have to do w/one’s ability to raise a kid? Doesn’t such a strategy suggest a good deal of forethought on the part of the Man?
Again-Women are used to the Man sacrificing himself, upfront, w/NO reasonable chance of him achieving his objectives. But she achieves hers.
Compare and contrast.
O
PS: Chic, at 5’8″, believe me, I’ve heard that whole “evolutionary tall Man preference” line from Women for years. And I done lost count as to the number of Women 5’10” & above say “you’re the first short Man I’ve been with, etc”. Some of thee most fierce animals in the natural kingdom aren’t huge-in the primate world, for example, its the chimpanzee tht you have to look out for, not the silverback gorilla. Wolverines? Rather small (and if you’re really into the comics, you’d know that Woverine/Logan was only about 5’3″ or so-Hugh Jackman is considerably taller, but still hands in a good performance as the most popular X-Man ever). Same deal w/the Tazmanian Devil.
That, along w/modern tech has made the tall Man obsolete. Don’t get it twisted, we shorter guys got it where it counts.
Take it from a guy who specializes in Amazons.
O
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In 4 hrs, you’ve posted the same comment 4 times. Something tells me your just a little bit jealous.
Jealous? No. I don’t even know what you look like.
I just find it funny as hell, how easily you gave into a same-night lay, with no condom, for free, despite your haughty protestations to the contrary. heh heh
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@obsidian,
-would you deny that inviting someone to a meal, and then expecting them to pay is rude?
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One more thing.
What I’m saying may sound harsh to some, because of my particular background. You see, Black Women particularly like to play fast and loose between the Equality/Chivalry borders-claiming one when it suits them, and demanding another when it suits them.
So many of us Brothas, long before Game came on the scene as many of our White Brothers have known it, decided to come up with ways to deal with that. Note how relatively few Brothas just up and take gals out on dates. Sure, some do, but consider, these are usually AFCs who have minimal Game, at best. More saavy Brothas know the deal. I haven’t done an upfront date in…lemme think now…at *least* a decade? If not longer? Such stuff is for Chumleys who deserve to juiced for all they got.
O
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t exposes women as sound managers of resources. competent women screen for mates who will adequately provide for their children. money matters.
This is why there SHOULD be a pay gap between men and women, as well as a gender imbalance in high-paying executive positions.
Period.
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“”””””””””””””””doug1
gunny–
You think we’re over? You have no idea. Joy is the word. Or one of them.
I really thought you’d be better than this. I would be to you.””””””””””””””””””””
What I was happy for you. I had already shut the switch down on that shit before. I offered her 3rd string slot. I already have first two strings lined out. She was obviously going for you.
“”””””””””””””””””””””doug1
Gunny –
She doesn’t need that. She’s a very smart girl. She just needs to re focus. It’s not like she totally hasn’t. Just slipped a bit. My fault. I didn’t know.
But gunny as for where I fly or not I’m not going to report ya know?
I’m living with a wonderful girl in her early 30’s who’s crazy about me, and thinks/realizes that my flirting is her cross to bear. And knows about B in general. (Makes her v. jealous, makes for great sex, makes for need to stroke. She loves me so much and I love her back.) I’m supposed to destroy her?
Besides B is ridiculously too young for me or really more vice versa. She knows my age. But still, in RL?”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Then you write the above. After pulling the sneaky fucker move but then don’t follow through. I thought that was kind of weak if that where the case. I mean strong pulling it. But if you where my “friend” or liked her why pull the sneaky game in the first place rather than just staying out of it. Unless you where only doing it to disrespect me. Then it is something in another ballgame. If you follow through I can maybe respect a win. If you don’t then your just a piece of shit.
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it exposes women as sound managers of resources. competent women screen for mates who will adequately provide for their children. money matters.
What a crock of bullshit.
A man who is a sound manager of resources will NEVER pay for a first date with some slut. So a man not paying is perferable, according to your logic.
You just want to be a moocher, a parasite. These bizarre rationaliziations are pathetic attempts to hide your freeloading ways. That is why you approve of women who get away with cuckolding too.
Let’s crank it up a notch, shall we?
Anyone who believes a woman deserves alimony after a divorce, particularly if she initiated it, inherently believes women are inferior to men. You can have both a culture of equality and a culture of alimony. Period.
Any questions?
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Tood, “I just find it funny as hell, how easily you gave into a same-night lay, with no condom, for free, despite your haughty protestations to the contrary. heh heh”
tood, give it up bro, roissy is a generous user of irony, hyperboly, wit, and sarcasm.
hey look, i admire your well grounded political and social views, but you seriously carry the inimitable stink of an engineer whose stuck in his cubicle all day and does nothing but -theorize- about game.
one thing that game -should-ve taught you is to stop thinking so damn literally.
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You see, Black Women particularly like to play fast and loose between the Equality/Chivalry borders-claiming one when it suits them, and demanding another when it suits them.
All women do. The only places where this does not happen is in the patriarchal cultures, where women married men who both they AND their parents approved of. Thus, gameplaying on the part of the woman was a non-issue.
Black men have a stronger position in the market relative to black women. This is not true for East/South Asian men relative to their respective women.
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@tood,
etiquette, dating, cuckolding, alimony, divorce………………….one topic at a time please.
on the topic of etiquette, do you deny that an invitation to a meal should not be followed by a bill?
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Babaero Serrada,
Shhhhh…..quiet. It gets under Chicpea’s skin.
It appears it is you who doesn’t see irony.
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@abelard- understood, no need to apologize. you have a platonic love across the pond that your live-in has to accommodate. nice! although women are at least as disturbed by emotional infidelity than physical… beware …
@chic/obs/anony/tood- surely there’s a happy medium between spending not one red cent and shelling out for a $150 dinner? i know it’s against asshole-game gospel, but i have no problem buying a girl a drink at a bar or coffee or a late-night dessert or whatever. i don’t think of it as screening or “pitching” myself – i think anony hit it right; it’s a provider instinct that gets at primal resource-seeking. how you do it is important – it should be a gesture of comfort-building and confidence, not supplication. and it should follow initial opening and comfort, not be something you lead with. hard to describe, but i know what i mean when i do it.
one of our perennial themes here is that modern life is out-of-whack with the involuntary preferences of our hindbrains. so obs, however much you may be right (and your posts lately have been blazing beacons of truth across the heavens), anony and chic have a point; unless you have your own kind of game going on in a strong way – and you evidently do – for other guys refusal to spend any money before sex could come across as cheap or asshole-y. (for roissy, the asshole-y is the point.) i know that’s not how you mean it or how it works for you – your posts are crystal clear – but it’s how it could come off in many other cases. feminist equality logic does not trump feminine ancient preferences. same as modern life hasn’t changed our deepest behaviors all that much – just channeled them differently.
having said that, i think the standard-by-now idea of having the first few meetings be light and informal, in coffee shops or other $-lite venues, is a good way to square this circle. you pay but not that much, and you are screening her for the deeper engagement.
@tood – your idea of taking a girl clothes shopping with you for “advice” is brilliant. i will use that one some time. DHV, screening taste, comfort building, etc. all in one stroke. really good..
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one topic at a time please.
Translation : Anony has been busted as a freeloading thief who will try to get away with freeloading, cuckolding, divorce theft, etc.
do you deny that an invitation to a meal should not be followed by a bill?
See my 10:11 PM post above.
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Anony,
Better question: would you deny that the very idea of “whoever does the inviting should pay” when Women know good and darn well they rarely if ever have to ask a guy out, is not only an insult to one’s intelligence, but also a slap in the face to Men?
O
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PA wrote: The paying thing: I’ve always liked to pay for dates and in fact was annoyed when my date insisted (not offered — insisted) that she pays for herself. Gotta feel like a man who’se in charge of the evening.
This is interesting to me because it’s what I took for granted in my 20s and early 30s. Back then men used to take offense if women asked/insisted on paying their own way. It would provoke some comment like, “What are you, a feminist?” in a tone that suggested that being called a feminist was not a compliment. Being able to pay, back then, was the mark of an Alpha. “Going Dutch” was a sign that a man was either very young, stingy, or a Beta who was willing to cede financial/social control to a woman.
It’s clear from the stories here that things have changed a great deal since then but I’m not sure why. Did some women get so greedy that men saw them as money-grubbers and gold-diggers? Was it only because women began to earn as much as men? Or did men stop thinking that being able to pay for a date was a mark of their worth for some other reason? This isn’t a loaded question. I’m just curious about how and why things changed so radically.
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@tood,
I’d love for you to understand this, so I’ll personalize it:
-I make oodles of money….sufficient to feed myself.
-I am more “logic brained” than most men.
-I understand that my feelings lack logic, BUT when my husband pays for our meal in a restaurant, I “feel” cared for, attended to. This defies logic, but that’s the way it is.
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The female voices keep wanting to talk about what they look for in men in terms of LTR. Which they admit is quite different if not opposite than what makes them want to climb out of their panties. Or, if you believe Chic N. what they want on one of the rare occasions they want it at all.
If women wake up without a committed mate in later life, and they are capable of reflection, they might put 2 and 2 together.
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@myself, above – i think i meant to write primal resource-displaying (for the man), not resource seeking – the male complement to that female instinct.
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Was it only because women began to earn as much as men?
I’m sure there are stats out there, but I’m not 100% sold on the idea that women match men in earning,in the dating context. (Mind you, for the sake of all that is good, I don’t want there to be a pay parity)
But when you consider facts such as: (1) men tend to date women younger than themselves, thus ones less likely to earn as much as they do; (2) men gravitate to better paying fields, women to fluffier ones; (3) within the same profession, men are more ambitious at work, women prefer to just get along; (4) barring the unemployed alcoholic bad-boy scenario, women gravitate to higher-status men than themselves, and so on, it seems evident to me that given any couple out on a date, the guy will be earning more than the woman.
My post-high school dating life included all of the 1990s, plus the first few years of the 2000s, until I got married. From my personal experience, I don’t feel like things 5-6 years ago have changed a whole lot since Clio’s dating experiences (80s?)
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obsidian,
as tood and maurice pointed out, there is no compelling reason to eat on an early date, but if you do, please demonstrate adequate etiquette.
Frankly, you are sounding like a cheap ba…….
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superlative bitch mooch:
on the topic of etiquette, do you deny that an invitation to a meal should not be followed by a bill?
when someone is invited to a party they are usually expected to bring some alcohol. will you, anony, bring a six pack to our next dinner date?
btw, your argument is specious, for the reason obsidian mentioned above. since men are expected to do the “inviting” in the mating market any obligation to pay for his guest is rendered null and void.
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and Obsidian, as to your question, YES , i would deny it , because it is a non sequitor.
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To look at things from Obsidian’s angle for a moment — he is dating a nurse; by that, I’m assuming an RN, probably over 30 years old. A woman like that probably earns a pretty good buck. I don’t know what Obsidian does for a living, but chances are that a Registered Nurse makes more.
In such a scenario (or for me, say, if I were dating a woman who makes more than I do) I still think the dude should pay on dates. BUT — the venues, true to Game, aren’t expensive. Take her to the zoo, buy two milkshakes, and enjoy the chemistry.
AND — she needs to reciprocate with thoughtful little gifts; she needs to buy him a sweater or something becaus eshe is thinkng of him while not with him, and saw something he’d look real foxy in. Etc.
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fyi, the whole who pays conundrum can be easily sidestepped by taking the girl out to a museum or a dive bar for $2 beers. pre-sex dinners are the first refuge of the beta.
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Maurice,
I too enjoy many of your posts. Come, let us reason together.
Now, perhaps you may not have seen them, but I have said in the past, that one of my favorite “Day Two” meeting spots is a strong of coffeehouses in the city where I’m well known by everyone. My rule of more than a decade has been to spend no more than $20 on that interview. Its a date, to be sure, but its also an interview-so I can ascertain the prospect’s levels, emotionally, mentally, and to some extent, sexually. I’ve always been a keen observer of people, so I’ll be watching her very, very closely for signs, signals and clues. Of course, she has every right and should, similarly inspect me.
So, I’m not against this kind of brief encounter. SOP calls for no more than 45 minutes, although if the vibe is really strong, it can change into an all day date, and wind up in my bed. But usually that’s not what I’m aiming for. Usually I’m aiming for a Day Three. Stretch the seduction out. Its better that way. On average, of course.
Now, because I’m a just and kind Man, sometimes, depending on the situation and the Woman, I’ll qualify her in the following way:
Anna, you seem like a very sharp lady! Let me ask you a question please: Chivalry or Equality, which do you choose, in a relationship?
*then O shuts up*
Her answer will determine where things go from that point; if she chooses the former, then it means that she’s more traditional and submissive, and we’ll proceed in that direction-my preferred way to go. If on the other hand, she prefers the latter, then I nicely, but firmly hold her to her choice-meaning, that we go Dutch, she doesn’t have to expect me to hold open the door for her, etc. Equality, remember? Or if she thinks she can have it all, I abruptly pull the plug, and leave her there by herself. Only children expect to get everything they want. Adults know better. And I don’t do Kiddie Porn.
Now-
Because I am African American, and one who is a bit smarter than the average bear, I understand my unique position in said community. See, Black Women know their choices are limited, and guys like me are rare. So, they are more than welcome to try their hand out there, and come back and holla back the results. Sistas know that knuckleheads, true cheapskates, minutemen and just bad seeds are rife in the hood. And that spending what little fertile time left alone, is no joke.
So, they can decide-which is better-the Obsidian-or the Leroys of the world?
Choose wisely, is what I tell my Sistas. Choose wisely.
O
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@roissy/obs/pa- so, a kind of consensus on this drawn-out topic: dropping a few bucks on a screening date or two is not total capitulation to the modern feminist cunt brigade. @anony/chic – if a guy took you for coffee, museum, dive bar etc. for the first few dates would you then think him cheap for not springing for dinner at The Palm? i think not if you dug him and you had a good time. the point is to take the attention away from money at this stage – spending too much or too little gives off (opposite) wrong signals.
@obs – love the direct question. puts her in the screening hotseat, w/ you in charge.
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pre-sex dinners are the first refuge of the beta.
Looking back on my approx. 12 years of post-high school dating:
Dates when I took her to a nice dinner (before I knew Game) — never had sex. Never. Never had sex or even a heavy makeout after a nice dinner. And I have impeccable table manners, so that couldn’t be it.
Dates that were cheap but spontaneous and fun (accidenal alphahood in my 20s or post-discovery of Game) — good track-record of sex or solid makeout.
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Anony,
W/all due respect madam, I find your argumentation style to be subpar. You have, both here and in the recent MPT debate, continually resorted to Ad Hominem assaults on those who deigned to disagree with you, which only strengthens your oppositions argument, and diminishes yours. There is no reason to hurl invective at me or anyone else “I think you’re a cheap ba…” and so on.
The bottomline is that Women in our time want it both ways, and Men, Black and White, rich and poor, white and blue collar, Dem and GOP, are slowly waking up to the fact that in many ways, they are being taken for a ride. Women are fully free now-free to make their own choices, and free to deal w/the consequences that result therefrom.
Now, I have no desire to engage in Ad Homs w/you Anony, mainly because I don’t know you. I prefer instead to pick apart your feebel arguments like an expert fencer weilding a rapier. And based on how you’ve approached this matter, to say nothing of the recent MPT debate, that shouldn’t be that hard to do.
So, you were saying…?
O
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I noticed that anony ran away once I called bullshit on her claim that a man needs to buy a woman something in order to prove that he knows how to manage resources well.
Rather, that proves that he knows how to manage resources poorly.
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Obsidian, you’re generous as it is to give your time to commentors who go by some version of “anoymous” because they are too boorish to pick a name.
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Clio:
This isn’t a loaded question. I’m just curious about how and why things changed so radically.
Let’s go somewhere for coffee this weekend and talk about it.
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Backdoor, Dave from Hawaii, and MNL,
I’ve been reading about using game in marriage for a while now but I have no idea how to apply it. My marriage is going down the tubes fast if I don’t change fast. My problem is the one time I tried using a little asshole game on her she didn’t take me seriously at all. How do make the switch from beta to alpha believable?
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PA, Maurice, Roissy, thanks to you all.
Another key reason why a Man shouldn’t kick out large sums before anything jumps off is, 9 times outta 10, she’s already made up her mind as to whether she wants you thumping her womb or not-and as PA has noted, more often than not, if you’re kicking out hard currency and you haven’t hit it yet, chances are high, that you won’t. Its a classic DLV move, textbook. And Women know it.
O
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My 3 stage process detailed in the 10:11 PM post, mapped over the Mystery Method steps, works quite well, with virtually no cost.
There is no reason to deviate.
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BTW, I agree with Maurice that chipping in some pocket change for a Day 2 is not necessarily capitulating to the feminist Borg. While it is true that garnering some sexual attention from a girl without spending a red cent is a pretty good acid test for ensuring you have been slotted into the Lover and not Provider category in her mind, it is also true that you might let some genuinely good girls slip through your fingers for being so stingy.
But, like Roissy said, going for a nice “dinner” on a Day 2 is for betas.
Day 2’s are a screening process for both parties. Nothing fancy required.
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Another problem with the
“I’ll always love you line”
is that is unconditional. Effectively you have said no matter what you do I will not stop loving you.
So she now has permission from you to get fat, turn into a crack whore, start fucking random homeless alcoholics, turn into a feminist, and so forth without worrying about repercussions from you.
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I have noticed that when women go out with their girl friends they will haggle over the bill down to the penny. It doesn’t matter who invited whom, everything is split equally. Guys tend to be more generous. Everybody chips in, some more than others, with the expectation that what goes around comes around.
The women I associate with are on the equality side of the spectrum but are not hypocrites. They value my company and find ways to show it. I rarely drink and never buy women drinks. On those occasions when I do drink, the women buy ME drinks. They tend to pout if I decline. Last weekend, a girl bought me a shot and then offered me her drink in case the vodka was not to my taste. When going for coffee, they usually have coffee and a snack waiting for me as I arrive. I have the mixed blessing of being an older man that keeps the company of attractive young women with serious daddy issues. The down side is that they tend to be crazy.
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Tood, “I noticed that anony ran away once I…”
–> that you don’t even understand the concept that people’s -lives- might drag them away from the internet for a few hours says volumes about you, tood.
more evidence for my earlier claim re: you’re a cubicle freak who sits on the internet and theorizes all day long.
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“While it is true that garnering some sexual attention from a girl without spending a red cent is a pretty good acid test for ensuring you have been slotted into the Lover and not Provider category in her mind, it is also true that you might let some genuinely good girls slip through your fingers for being so stingy. ”
Tupac- so glad that you noticed this!
Men should not, and I would never expect them too, spend so much money in the “courting” (or whatever you’d like to call it) process. It’s not necessary to gauging mutual attraction. I like to use time, effort, and sincerity as a barometer of feelings rather than money spent. Money, if you have it, is easy to spend. In a time when a quality woman can have access to her own resources, there’s not much value in a man lavishing her with a dinner that she can afford on her own. Dates with more romance, thought, and spontaneity have more value and money does not automatically produce those results. But please, don’t be stingy – you will lose the nice ones if you do. It’s about finding a balance.
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I have also noticed here a debate concerning why women want men to shell out more money for dates – in order to show themselves capable of being good providers for children. It’s true that men need to show themselves to be capable providers financially, but women also need to show themselves capable of providing financially (she needs to have drive, ambition, which shows itself as they get to know one another) and also needs to show nurturing instincts that will make her a good mother. The opportunities that women are blessed with now (better education and careers) have given women now also the burden/responsibility of needing to show themselves financially sound / prepared as well.
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“Throws a 10k wrapped stack at dreamer”
We good now?
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Yo, everyone knows better than to dis G Manifesto… but when my comment gets moderated for hours, I bring it back!
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/self-defeating-romantic-lines-you-should-never-say/#comment-83398
Stop drinkin that pink shit G, your cred always will have an ending in NYC if you drift out of meatpacking without your bodyguards. This eventually becomes MY CITY. I know you respect that, keep flame off these burners son.
Come bumping that tupac, we throw back some nyc shit.
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To Obsidian – Dang, you’ve really been putting the hurt on people the last few days with some major truth – first chic, and now anony. Nice job, bro!
To anony – I think we all understand your point that you “feel cared for” when your husband pays for dinner, even though it isn’t rational. I’m going to speak for Obsidian a bit here, so I hope I don’t put words in his mouth (Obsidian, please correct me if I misspeak in regard to what you are thinking or saying). I don’t think anyone here, even Obsidian, is objecting to the fact that this feeling you have occurs. But I think there are a couple of things that Obsidian and others have brought up that either you are failing (or intentionally unwilling) to grasp.
You are married, so you and your husband have an emotional bond, shared experiences, common expectations, et cetera – all of the things that come with what I assume is a good marriage. Likewise, your husband is emotionally invested in you, so he wants to pay for the dinner, to be the chivalrous nice guy, and what not. But Obsidian is talking in the context of first or second dates. Obviously, if it is only a first or second date, the two of you don’t know each other at all. There is no emotional investment at this point, so Obsidian’s point is this: Why should there be much of a financial investment? As he and others have pointed out, good and fun dates don’t have to involve the man spending a significant amount of money. If a first date involves the man inviting the woman to join him for dinner, and she makes as much or more than he does, and then she just sits there when the check arrives and waits for him to shell out $100-$200 for “Thank you, I had a nice evening” and a peck on the cheek, and this is what happens on almost all of the man’s first dates, he would have to be filthy rich or an imbecile to keep doing this. As Obsidian also said, once some actual romance (obviously including sex) and emotional investment is involved, then the dynamic (including the financial aspect of it) changes. You may not like that men are no longer automatically picking up the tab all the time, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is the case. As Obsidian asked, “Equality or chivalry – which will it be?” So we are happy that your husband pays for your dinner and that you “feel cared for”. Now, when you get back home, tell him, “Thank you, I had a nice evening”, then give him a blowjob to show you mean it.
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dreamer
Education and career do not make women more attractive. At all. In fact, in many cases it makes them less feminine when they are career oriented. I don’t know why you think that is important to us. Unless we plan on losing less of our shit in a divorce.
Men want you to look good, be fun and playful. Period. Weird kinks that turn us on, flexibility, lack of gag reflex are also good.
High salary and a masters degree? Zzzzzz
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Brother Grim, you had asked me a question last night, about what did I mean when I said that I “kill em with kindness”, and how it was, in my humble view, more devastating than “Asshole Game”. My bad for not getting back to you sooner on this, and would now like to expand on what I was talking about (and if Clio’s reading along, I will also attempt to answer her question as well, as it was a very good question in my view-stay tuned).
Because Men as a rule are givers and Women are receivers, and because as a rule Men tend to be more generous than Women as a general rule, its important for Men not to let their kindness be taken as a weakness by Women. Now, I am a naturally kind, nice guy, and prefer that human beings be kind and nice to each other. However, in the mating world, a Man cannot be “too nice”.
What I mean by that is supplicating oneself, and so on. While I am not a proponent of “asshole game”, I do agree w/the notion that a Man should not give unde importance to what a Woman, or Woman in general, thinks of what he says or does. I also am of the view that a Man can be cordial, civil, even gentlemanly up to a point, while also, not supplicating himself, being an emotional tampon or being a doormat. Trust me when I tell you Grim, Women *will use you like this* if you let em.
So I guess in a way, I do a bit of “a-hole game” w/o the coarse behavior/language; mine is a more socially acceptable version of it to an extent.
As to your own personal situation, I do not know enough to give a view or opinion one way or another. If you wouldn’t mind being more detailed in what’s going on, I’ll be happy to share my views on it. That’s your call.
Hope this clarifies things a bit on my end.
O
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Laikastes,
Here, here brother. Here, here. And please allow me to add to that a bit:
What Anony seems not to understand is, that she has entered into an explicit *sexual relationship* w/her hubbie, indeed, that is what marriage is all about(!). Therefore, it is only right and fitting that her hubbie do his part by treating her well, taking her out periodically, etc. To onlookers, they are a couple-meaning, they have a *sexual* relationship.
The problem w/the things I and others, including you have been talking about, is that when onlookers see me for example, doing the same thing that Anony’s hubbie is doing-paying for a night out/dinner-but NOT in a *sexual relationship* w/the Woman guest of mine-then the impression others have of us is flawed, if not downright false. We do not have such a relationship, yet the Woman reaps the same bennies, that Anony has reaped, and now that I think about it, WHY should a Woman, who has not made the same or even similar investment that Anony has made, get the same kind of treatment? I mean c’mon, where’s the fairness in that? If I were Anony, I would be insulted, because she has made a commitment, while this other gal has not.
It all comes down to being an adult and not playing a bad game of Three Card Molly. Women know within a minute or two upon first meeting if they want a Man up in them. What they have to do next is, check to see if the Man has other qualities, as well as to backward rationalize to herself that she is not a Ho, and in fact a good girl. All of that I’m 100% ok with. My only thing is, until or unless she has invested her womb, do I begin to act as a hubby (Anony) would. That’s only fair.
Yes?
O
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…And now I would like to take up Clio’s question, posed a little while back-she asks, what has changed in the past few decades since she was on the dating scene, that Men now apparently act as I and others here in this august forum have purported? What happened? Back in her day Men would be taken aback by her attempts to pay for a night out-“what are you, a feminist?”, she said her beaus would ask. She asks her question in earnest, and its my view that all questions asked in good faith deserved to be answered.
As best I know how, at least.
Well Clio, a number of things have happened since you were last on the dating scene. Taking Occam’s Razor, the most simplest answer is that Women now earning as much, and in many cases, *more* than Men would be perhaps chief among them. To be sure, Women enmasse no longer needing a Man for purely economic considerations has been a great Liberator for them-but it has also liberated Men as well. Men in our time no longer need to fulfill a “Sir Ivanhoe” role anymore, since Women are more than capable of taking care of themselves. Since money was no longer a factor in the Mating Dance, other things came in to fil the void.
Over the past few decades, Women have been able to call more and more of the shots, something I don’t think you or others here would bemoan too much-what Women now have to accept, is that along w/those options, come consequences, some good, others bad.
Men are understanding how Female Sexuality works, which is often distinct and different from longterm pairbonding considerations. Courting in the traditional sense lended to the latter issue, but as the economic question for Women has been largely resolved, we now need a way of dealing with the former issue-afterall, now Woman can choose what, and whom, they *really* want, yes?
Enter Game-and by that, I don’t mean the canned lines, routines, gimmicks or even Negs-what I mean is a detailed, yet accessible to the Everyman, understanding of how Women tick on the visceral, hindbrain, primal level when it comes to sexual attraction. This understanding until very recently in human history was at best scattershot, hit and miss, and often in he hands of a relatively select few. Now, it is accessible to any Man who wants it. And if this venue, to say nothing of the many bootcamps and the like are any indication, MILLIONS of Men, *want this info*.
What has changed is that, well, real developments for Women have changed. At least half of all college grads are Women. For the first time not only in American history, but the history of human beings, Women make up a majority of the workforce. In the USA at least, Women have had unilateral control, literally, over who lives, and who dies, thanks to Roe v Wade and the Pill. And when it comes to Divorce and other family related matters, Women clearly have the upperhand.
Men have been slowly connecting the dots. You know us guys, we tend to be slow learners, but once we get it, we get it-and now Men are making a few demands of their own. For while Women can do a lot of things for themselves, they still have a deep need and desire for Men who are good lovers. Game has made this crystal clear for many Men.
Hope this explains things a bit and goes a ways to answering your question.
O
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Anony, stop the sophistry and just say the truth. You just like the concept of equality when it benefits you (making money and making men share chores) and you don’t like the concept of equality when it requires a sacrifice from you (paying your share of dates). Just be real about it. You’re trying to get all you can. I may not like where you’re coming from, but your unwillingness to be honest about your true motives makes you hard to respect to boot.
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“Question: what do you do when it turns out the girl you’re working on is, in actual fact, cooler than you, i.e., leads a more exciting life?
I’ve stumbled on this one before.”
Re-evaluate your life. I’m certain there are very few people with any more exciting and interesting pursuits than me. (in my eyes) I know for certain that none of them are college girls.
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DTH,
In the words of the All Time Great Harry Kalas, your points were “Outta Heeeeeere!”-the qualities you mentioned that are important to Men about Women-and they ARE hugely important-can just as easily apply to the gal working at Target as to the gal working in Corporate America, etc. We guys simply do not care about the big wad of cash and high falutin’ degrees.
Now, don’t get me wrong. Its nice work if you can get it, and to be sure, its a plus; but as you said, don’t get it twisted-a Woman who looks good and cares about looking good, likes if not loves sex, & is easy to get along with are the first principles for the vast majority of Men. The sooner Women, particularly those who are college (mis)educated understand this, the better their lives will be.
Good lookin out, kid!
O
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The men I have been involved with are looking for women who will be their equal intellectually and have goals and careers. They are looking for women who can challenge them mentally, and care for a family in the same way that they can (ie. what happens if they lose their job? can the women keep the household going, financially and otherwise?), and who has goals that drive the woman throughout her life. They want all this as well as a woman who is good in bed, a good mother and household caretaker, and a lover, with a sense of dignity and selectivity.
I give this to you- they want to be the main breadwinner. Of course they want to be “the man.” But they are looking for someone who did go to college, perhaps even to the same level as them, and who does have a career they can brag about to their own families. Well-bred and self-secure men want well-bred women who can upgrade them in their lives…
The various qualities of these said men? Ivy-educated, multilingual, world-travelled, one of them a Middle Eastern Muslim man (imagine that), all with upper level prestigious degrees, and two of them the “cream of the crop” African-American men who many (including you Obsidian), consider to have the best strategic sitting in the dating game. But I suppose these qualities do not represent the vast majority of men, but perhaps some special few. Who knows?
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“Men want you to look good, be fun and playful. Period. Weird kinks that turn us on, flexibility, lack of gag reflex are also good.”
– DTH
– I believe this will suffice for a fling or a sexual toy, but not for a longterm girlfriend or (if it’s your thing) a wife. I am certain that a review of powerful men and history and the women they made their wives (or even dated on a long term basis), these women are either highly accomplished in one field or highly educated, or both. Reference Barack and Michelle, etc.
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Thought experiment, in light of what’s been discussed here over the past 24 hours or so:
We’ve already noted that Women can and often do many things for themselves; but one thing they haven’t been able to get a handle on yet, is getting really good orgasms.
According to most studies done, easily accessible online, the vast majority of Women, single or married, young or old, regularly have orgasms. And even then, among the small number who do, its not the strong, “earth moving” kind. More like a mild swelling, a nice and gentle buzz.
Most Men walking around have little if any understanding how Female sexuality, or for that matter, anatomy, works-Women are wired to be able to experience different kinds of orgasms, and different kinds of intensity settings, if you will. Very few regularly enjoy the kinds of orgasms that have them sounding like barnyard animals, their hands and legs trembling an hour later, & either passing out or very, very close to it.
All the education, abortion rights, and careerism in the Universe will not give a Woman such an experience-a very important one, since Women as a rule have such a strong and deep capacity for having orgasms.
Question: what’s it worth to a Woman to have a Man who is not only highly skilled in giving her those toe-curling, mouth drooling, barnyard animal incoherent grunting, hands/legs trembling an hour later, womb contracting orgasms that leave pools of her juices in the middle of the bed and her needing an oxygen tank-and can do it *consistently*, because as any if not all Women knows, any guy can be a One Hit Wonder (to say nothing of being a Minuteman)? Hmm?
Women cum in waves, and each wave should be more intense and longer in duration than the last. Personally I like to see to it that she gets about four deep orgasms each time we have sex.
Again-whats it worth to a Woman to have a Man with such a highly refined skill?
Comments?
The Obsidian
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everything you can learn about game from this blog, you can learn in a couple weeks. What keeps me here is the female commenters. I won’t date or flirt with IPs as many here do, but the female opinions are priceless.
Every man must see how no matter the age, race, income, whatver, women are hardwired to follow their biological imperative.
Also, the random debates are cool. Like yesterday’s about the effects of the sun on aging
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Reference Barack and Michelle, etc.
he’s a modern post-feminism liberal man, so he has to pick a “powerful” woman to appeal to feminists in his voting base. but in most of history it’s all about a pretty woman who is fun, refined, sparkling conversation who is loyal and won’t embarass you with slut behavior and cuckolding.
most mates of alpha males in the west were attractive and very polished, that’s it. most of their education were in “womanly arts” and etiquette poise and finishing. you can’t use a modern liberal like obama as example of what real men like, look through most of history instead.
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travelling boho
Some thoughts as they come to me:
– you’re not gonna fix this overnight. Make some changes in your behavior and apply them consistently, until she forgets the old you. The good news: women have short memories and live in the now. The flip side to Eddie Murphy’s “What have you done for me lately” is DFH’s wife not remembering his old Beta self.)
– Don’t touch her. No hugs, caresses, kisses, etc. If things are bad and she’s constantly bitchy, chances are it’s because she finds your physical presence disgusting, or at least annoying, due to your betatude. If things change for the better, with time, she will reach out to you first. Like taking your hand when you’re both sittin on the couch warchign TV.
– Asshole Game can be misapplied. The right way to be an asshole in your situation is to surgically target the assholness. Be pleasant, but if she suddenly snaps at you for not doing some trivial thing right, glare at her for a split second like you’re some trailer park wife-beater (to reach her reptilian core brain), and ask sternly: “are you criticising me?” or something short and appropriate, and leave it at that.
– Pass her shit tests. Not necessarliy with “toughness.” Shit tests can also be parried with humor. If she’s bitching at you on the phone, hang up. When she calls back, act like nothign happened, but hang up again wwhen she starts bitching again. Repeat as needed.
– Don’t neglect your end of your responsibilities at home (fixing stuff, etc). But don’t be a wind-up toy that jumps up and does evrythign she asks you to either. Move at your own pace.
– This is kind of in contradiction to the “don’t touch her” point, but once, when you’re feeling playfully confident and she’s bitching, just walk up to her and give her a big ‘ol bear hug, and in a sightly mocking tone, tell her a bunch of mooshy shit, and as she’s squirming away from you, you keep hugging and smothering her. Chances are, that if you time and do this right, she’ll start laughing. The idea is that you still own her body and you’ll have fun wiht her (in a playful way on your terms). A super display of humor and confidence.
– If you have kids or otherwise a harried life, take a day to just be alone doing somethign relaxing and low key, wiht no distractions. Call it a date. Walok around th ecity (hey, spring’s here!), sit at some little restaurant for lunch, etc.
– If financial problems are part of what’s screwing up your marriage, bring the in/outflow of cash under control and at the same time insist on an attitude that you’re still having fun and things will be fine.
– Most important: try to remember what it is that attracted her to you in the fist place. Bring that dude back.
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No dis to Dreamer, but, yet *another* reason why the Wise Man must employ the Rule of Ten Percent if he is to listen to anything a Woman says in these matters. Anon’s point is on-point, again, most Men simply do not care about the things Women are interested in, in terms of high education, career, etc. For the most part, if she’s got good and solid home training and commonsense in terms of how to carry herself, that’s all the “finishing” she needs.
You know, maybe its due to all the death I’ve seen in my life, and/or the many ups and downs I’ve been through in my life, but I gotta tell ya, I done lost count as to how many truly miserable people I’ve seen, and they aint among the working class but among the “upper classes”. Folks believe that if they just had this degree or that certification, life just opens up for them, and don’t get me wrong, I recognize that many people do well w/these things. But if we’re gonna be honest they in no way are a barometer of happiness or a calculus as to one’s character, heart, etc.
All that matters to me is if the Women has what I want, and all that matters at the end ofthe day is when we’re under the covers w/each other. What her friends or fam, or what my friends or fam, ultimately don’t mean a lot, because they ain’t there under the covers w/you-she is.
Sooooo many people out in the burbs are downright *miserable*, leaving behind a well-manicured lawn facade. Man, life is way too fragile and short for that, believe me, I know. And I think we all can agree, given the current recession/depression, that working like a slave really ain’t where its at either.
Roissy recently said something that, while I disagre w/him theologically, is nevertheless accurate-at the end of your life, all you will have left is memories. Having buried a number of good friends and close family members myself, including my parents, I want to have as many good memories as possible when my time comes. All the material stuff, the prestige, this, that, will soon be forgotten, and trust me, because I seen it firsthand, the vultures in yor fam won’t even wait for your body to get cold before they going through your stuff.
For me, I don’t care that girlfriend graduated top of her class, is some big shot on her job, etc. That’s for another world, not mine. I care if she looks good to me, is easy to get along with, and makes me feel in the manner that I wish to be treated. Period.
O
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-I swear… the next time I hear of some couple-friend seeing a marriage counselor, dammit, I’m going to pull the poor bastard aside, bitch-slap him, give him a book on LTR game and this URL-
any examples of books on LTR game?
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PA,
Thanks for the response. It’s great to get some more specific advice about how to do this. This part made me think though:
Most important: try to remember what it is that attracted her to you in the fist place. Bring that dude back.
When we met at our leftist east coast liberal arts college many years ago I was the poster child for the sniveling PC-ified beta. I stopped toeing that line years ago but didn’t drop the beta behavior. But that’s exactly what she fell in love with.
Is there any chance for marriage game to work on a woman thoroughly indoctrinated with leftist feminist ideology?
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PA has good advice for travelling hobo. I go for the “bear hug” technique almost every time she’s in a bad mood. Sometimes I don’t say a word…I just flat-out wrestle her, despite her protestations, and she eventually gives in and starts laughing. Sometimes I’ll throw her onto the bed or the couch and then walk away. By doing so, I establish physical dominance, demonstrate affection, show her that talking doesn’t matter, and let her know that her bad mood is not acceptable….all with a simple gesture. This sometimes leads to immediate sex. It’s amazing how her mood can turn on a dime.
Last night, I went to a friend’s house to watch the basketball game. When I got home, at 11:30, she was already sound asleep. This morning, she started giving me shit about getting home late, asking me how much I drank, and bitching about the fact that I hadn’t reviewed a document she had asked me to look at (her native language isn’t English, so I routinely look at things she writes). While she bitched, I gave her a look like she was crazy, and then proceeded to inspect the lint from from my navel, scratch my balls, and yawn. Then I picked up the document, made a few edits, and asked her, in a disinterested but disappointed tone, why she hadn’t ironed my clothes last night. She then ironed my clothes and made a bunch of sweet baby talk, while I walked around aloof and got on with my morning routine. She asks me about the game and how my evening went….I ignore her. She asked me if I was angry with her, and I said nothing…..I treated her as if she were a fly on the wall (which, in my mind, she was…..I’m not a morning person). As she leaves for work, she asks me to compliment her. Again, I look at her funny, but say nothing. Instead, I kiss her goodbye and swat her really hard on the ass. She giggles, grabs my crotch, and tells me we have an appointment for sex tonight.
Logic does not work in these situations. Talking will not get her to change her mood…..she will respond to the way you carry yourself and the things you don’t say more than anything you do say. Never apologize for indulging in simple manly pleasures (e.g., watching basketball and drinking beer with a friend).
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Is there any chance for marriage game to work on a woman thoroughly indoctrinated with leftist feminist ideology?
Marriage is best when both partners are in alignment on their basic views and values.
But the good news is that feminism / politics, etc. is not a sincere core essence of a woman. It’s just something she parrots for the sake of having opinions that she considers respectable and fashionable. Sincere, militant feminism is a province of lesbians and straight women who aren’t in love.
My advice is to act as though her feminist attitude didn’t even exist. Don’t talk or argue about it. At her core, she is a woman like all other women, and she’ll respond to manly behavior because that’s how she’s wired.
Think of al those Western feminist writers who visit Iran or Saudi Arabia and come back gushing about how wonderful and misunderstood those cultures are, and how they in fact truly embrace and cherish femininity withing the private sanctitiy of marriage, blah blah blah.
Feminism is not for real, except for lesbians. It’s just another shit-test you need to pass.
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When we met, my wife identified herself as a feminist. Over the years, she has become very skeptical of all things feminist, but even back in the early days of our relationship, I see that her interest in feminism was all talk. She responded to manly behavior back then just as much as she does now. I’m just manly more of the time now, and she responds with more affection.
Another key thing to remember….if she gets angry or upset at something you do or say, ignore her. Women will get angry for 15 seconds, and if you just ride it out and refuse to acknowledge her anger, you’ve crossed to the other side, and her mood will change. If you get worried about every way she scrunches up her face, or every short outburst, you become a slave to her emotional storms. Let her get pissed off for a minute, and as long as you ride out the storm (never apologize for anything or try to make her feel better), she will turn turn the corner and become kind and affectionate. Sometimes I make her angry on purpose, because I know that her one-minute outburst will soon morph into 24 hours of bliss.
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travelling boho…
“I’ve been reading about using game in marriage for a while now but I have no idea how to apply it. My marriage is going down the tubes fast if I don’t change fast. My problem is the one time I tried using a little asshole game on her she didn’t take me seriously at all. How do make the switch from beta to alpha believable?”
I’m almost afraid to touch this. But what the hell. I’ll bite.
First off, it’s entirely possible that you’re screwed. It could be that your LTR is beyond repair. No doubt there exist dysfunctional patterns (low self-esteem, childhood traumas, other hangups) that make two people, who slippery-sloped into marriage, incompatible. Let’s just hope children are not involved.
But admitting the above might be your first source of strength. Realizing the LTR is already flushed and that there’s nothing more to lose might give you the balls needed to change it–with an attitude of improving for yourself and future LTRs if not for the current one.
Consider that your bitch-slap. Man-up. Admit reality.
Where to go from here? Two things in your brief six-line post are worth calling out:
You say, “is going down the tubes fast if I don’t change fast”. No one gets anywhere if they refuse to change themselves. And changing yourself is prerequisite before seeing change in someone else. But I’d want to be sure your not owning the whole fiasco as part of your own low self-esteem beta-script.
You say, “make the switch from beta to alpha believable”. Making it believable comes after you, yourself find it believable and, therefore, make it consistent. Like Sartre’s waiter (look it up) you don’t become alpha by always “trying” to be alpha. You become alpha when the clay falls from off your eyes and you actually start seeing yourself as alpha. This can start small. You might begin by noticing merely the seeds of your own alpha and start growing them.
I’m a bit down on marriage counselors but don’t mean to be so flip as to write-off every one, for every situation. No doubt they have their place for some, for certain problems. I’ve got a PhD in a social psych-related field. My gripe is that the majority of the industry fails to acknowledge our evolutionary, socio-biological wiring. Too many simply address the window dressing. The few I’ve talked with and read seem to prescribe yet more of the problem. As if your goal was to turn yourself into yet another one of your wife’s girlfriends. Gimme a break!
Books and further help? I recently finished Franco’s _Manual of Seduction_. Highly recommended.
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Cosign PA.
Some of my best lays have been w/stompdown feminists. They talk a really mean game but want something stiff up in em just as bad as any other Woman, in many ways moreso, since many of em know they can’t really compete out on the open market. So they gotta take it while they can get it.
And I 100% agree, Feminism *is* one big shit test fellas. Don’t go for the okey doke!
O
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Supersolid concrete advice from Backdoor Man. Exactly — never be a slave to her moods.
One other thing to remember: women have PMS’s once a month, so it’s not always about you. Either way, ignore her bad moods, or otherwise don’t let yourself be controlled by them.
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One metaphor I keep in mind is that the man is a tree, the woman is a vine wrapped around that tree. It’s your job to be solid, hers to be all wrappy and wavy.
Also, read Roissy’s “16 Commandments of Poon” at the top of his main blog page. It includes some good LTR pointers.
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Thanks guys, you’ve given me a lot to think about.
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“A woman’s alpha radar never stops monitoring for beta blips on her emotional space….”
awesome ’cause it’s true.
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Travelling boho: Just another two cents.
I’m a firm believer that people get into particular patterns with each other and breaking out of those patterns is damn hard. You and your wife have a pattern: she’s the ball stomper and your boys are the stompees. It would be my guess that was why she laughed at you when you tried to change tactics, not taking you seriously.
What you are trying to do is to change the pattern while still being enmeshed within it. You have to change what you do, how you react to situations, etc. You have to catch yourself before you beta out, which is your default mode in this pattern. Outlook on this is bleak because it is hard.
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Babaero Serrada,
You are defending anony now? Probably in the pathetic hopes of getting a pat on the head.
Beta. Lesser Beta, in fact.
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anony
(I make oodles and ooldes of money (don’t tell Bhetti, it’s not how I want to keep her hot for me) so I’m what I’m about to say is not self interested.)
What you say above is in a nutshell why there should be discrimination in favor or men in schools, universities, and the workplace, instead of the reverse, affirmative action for women.
Affirmative action for women anywhere was one of the most idiotic concepts of the last half century.
I’d like to hear ANYONE defend affirmative action for women.
Don’t get me wrong, I love having them around the workplace, cause some of them are lovelies (in looks and feelings), and I have a weakness for lovelies. But I’m not at all worried females will disappear from universities and offices just because we regain our senses and discriminate in favor of men.
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Tood
Pats don’t remotely do it for me.
I’ve been thoroughly spoiled.
I require love poems recited to me and injunctions to the people to “check out his moves” and so on.
Now THAT does do it for me.
Ahhh.
(ducks)
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doug1: There’s no need to explicitly discriminate against women. All that needs to be done is change from the lots of homework/quizes/small tests to the one big ass catch all final.
Long ago, that is how they did things at school. They did studies and discovered that girls did poorly at that while boys excelled. Girls did best with lots of small quizes, homework, etc; essentially playing to girls’ strength in routine with minimal stress. In other words, the girls were more dutiful.
The idea was to make a hybrid: homework and quizes with massively important tests. Over time, though, the hybrid drifted to a pure form: the one that plays to girls strengths.
Take that away and the female advantage in schooling goes away.
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cptnapalm–
Yeah. Just so.
Your whole comment sounds right to me.
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Yo! Macs may not be Lenovos but they’re darn useful. There’s a program named Site Sucker that downloads your site right to the computer. I use it once a month to archive some of roissy’s gold, so if wordpress explodes the stuff still exists.
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“One metaphor I keep in mind is that the man is a tree, the woman is a vine wrapped around that tree. It’s your job to be solid, hers to be all wrappy and wavy. ”
-PA
This I have to agree with. Makes for a better relationship overall.
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dreamer
The worst women to care for your children is a woman that is used to firing on all cylinders in the career hunt. The best would be a traditional homemaker, i.e. not queen of womyn’s studies or a lawyer.
Well bred and self secure men want what any other alpha male wants, a younger, hotter women of good breading and feminine charms. Not a harpy with a masters and 9-5 job down in the city.
Unless its a marriage for status to appease an uppity liberal family or something, each of these men want a hot woman. A delicate, youthful and fun flower.
The problem many of these men may have is that they learned everything under the sun in ‘elite’ schools except how to handle women. So they end up marrying a co-worker or another student, because of proximity. Before he knows it, she is running his life, the kids, the house and possibly running him into the ground for life via divorce.
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dreamner
Sure, men have had women like you proscribe as wives throughout history. They also had the young hotties on the side, because all powerful men are granted the ability to do so. For sex. No divorce.
And college education does not make one smart. Never forget the best skills a woman can learn in her life are how to treat men from her father and how to look her best from her mother.
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Great post, Roissy!
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Fuck, my “group of friends” is so fucked up and has become so shitty that we cannot even go to a quality club to see Guru Josh playing Infinity live.
Damn, not even “my boys” can do it. I really need to broad my options. I regret so much have left the last girl I aproached and reacted positively. WHICH WAS A MONTH AGO!
Anyway, my ten is more and more distant… Now I have to be happy because we both know that whenever she wants to crave something, she’ll come to me. And I’ll give her what she wants for free.
On another note, I climbed a ladder recently in what concerns manly honour in relation to women. Some weeks ago, the 16 years old (pseudo) hotties of my class – to which I attend only twice a week for one hour – came to me asking for me to change the delivery date of my work project with the one they had, which was one week earlier.
They had good arguments, like having to study for lots of tests and having to make many works while I do nothing.
However, I’d have a test in the middle and while I (used to, thanks to Roissy) belive that the right thing to do should be to exchange with them, I also felt that it was not confortable to me.
And, mixed with the feeling that girls like them must learn not to mess around with me, I just politely said I’d like to say yes and would think.
After they going after me some days after, I then firmly said no.
What’s my surprise when I come to school and the main hottie comes to me, grabs my arm, and starts giving me explanations on how they mannaged to do the work nonetheless. THIS FROM A GIRL, WHO NEVER SAID NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL TO ME. We never said more than Hi and bye.
My conclusion: Women like men who are not their little gayish dogs, men that they cannot rule over. In a way, I discovered, through the help of Roissy and with this real life nasty example, that women like men.
Wow I’m such a genious.
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But how to not show your low vallue when you have no proof the person you’re directing your love to is not an angel?
You truly cannot embelish and not display low vallue.
I tryed it by saying in a conversation to my ten:
First, I explained her that I tend to befriend man in a sense that she cannot understand because while she tends to befriend women, women are more bitchy between themselves than man are.
Then, I went on to say that, despite her being a girl, I “liked, I truly really liked” five hours I spent with her while I couldn’t stand 5 minutes with man X, who once was a somewhat funny (male) friend (implied that freindship with another male is almost always more than friendship with women).
In the end, I realised that this was beta from me. But it also was an effective way of showing love.
And more than that, I was able to take a “I really like it too” and “we need to do this and invite that” from her.
I don’t know the degree of honesty, but that did not mattered for what I intended.
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“Love has no meaning. Trying to give it meaning is ridiculous.”
Bitch.
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Maurice @anony/chic – if a guy took you for coffee, museum, dive bar etc. for the first few dates would you then think him cheap for not springing for dinner at The Palm?
Not at all. I ran down a list of cheap dates to Tood. I think coffee is good for both man& woman for a first date. It gives both of you a chance to run away if you notice something creepy about the other.
Men suggest the first date, or at least in my experience they do. If they take me out for food, I just hope it’s to a place where I like the food. I don’t care much about cost.
Aliasclio Back then men used to take offense if women asked/insisted on paying their own way
Some men are still like this clio. African men esp Ethiopian men are very much against this. To them it’s offensive if a woman offers to pay.
I’m just curious about how and why things changed so radically.
Clio the major reason things changed was because some women started to put out to easy. Pusz is a commodity just like oil, bar skanks and those with higher drives have been flooding the market with their goods so the price has gone down. If I had my way, pusz would be “sold” like hermes bags.*
*tongue and cheek
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Maurice feminist equality logic does not trump feminine ancient preferences.
This is very true Maurice
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Chic noir
Whose tongue and whose cheek? 😉
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Tood@
The backlash has, I believe, already begun. It is just slowly swelling.
Really in listening to a bunch of ivory tower, embittered, elite upper and upper middle class Marxist trained ideologues with chips on their shoulders, heterosexual women in the West made a few small gains at the expense of loosing some more essential, precious, things. This could be a pity. Trading in old lamps for new ones suck if the old ones were gold plated but the new ones are plastic. Modern, sleek, pretty plastic all the same, but still plastic.
What looses out? Love. Love and honest, sincere, connections between men and women.
Is there time to salvage things in a way that is honestly equitable, fair, and just to all parties? Probably not. I think things have fallen so far out of balance that the coming backlash will again tip us towards an equally unbalanced position.
So it goes, Rome burns, pour me out another martini and lets toast it. After all, what else can you do?
Run around with a kitchen fire extinguisher?
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[…] any of those things is a one-way ticket to Chump City. 21. I want to know that I’m sexually attractive, even though I’m […]
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