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Chateau Heartiste

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« How To Prey On Women’s Insecurities
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Overqualifying Yourself To Girls

May 26, 2009 by CH

When you start getting good with women — that is, when you begin noticing their eyes light up when you talk rather than their eyes avert looking for the nearest exit — your biggest obstacle (besides logistics) won’t be your lack of game; it will be too much of your game. It is very easy to overqualify yourself to women because once you see with your own eyes how powerfully game works you will have a natural inclination to press your full court advantage beyond its usefulness. And because we have a human tendency toward too much of a good thing, you will often lose women in set and have no clue why, and thus no handle on how to refine your game. Overqualification is like blood pressure, the hidden disease that slowly kills your success as a player. You hardly recognize when it is happening.

One thing you learn over the years hunting the vast pink veldt for fresh pussy is how much more sensitive than men are women to being underqualified to a prospective mate. In fact, science has shown that couples are happier in relationships in which the man is less attractive than the woman. It makes sense, then, that a man whose game comes on too strong could ping a woman’s “cad” radar and convince her that he is too risky as a long term prospect.

How will you know when you’ve overqualified yourself? It’s a tough call. The signals are so subtle you’ll need lots of experience to know when to dial down your game. A few pointers:

Is she nervously checking out other women while you’re gaming her? She’s worried at the amount of female attention you receive and how well she can keep your attention.

Is she displaying particularly nervous or bashful body language? She thinks your high value is such that her less-than-perfect body can’t measure up to the types of female bodies she assumes you are used to bedding.

Does she suddenly get defensively snippy for no apparent reason? She’s crouched into a face-saving posture and her ego has taken over her emotions. Lawyer cunts are especially prone to this behavior.

Does she half-jokingly say things like “You’re probably like all the other guys. You won’t call.” or “Promise you’ll call?” A girl who believes she’s in your league won’t resort to airing her doubts out loud.

Does she put herself down? She’s fishing for compliments because she wants reassurance that you really think she is cute.

Does she accuse you of being a player or a heartbreaker? This is typically a shit test, but remember, buried in every shit test is a corn kernel of truth. If she says it, she’s thinking it. You’ll need to parry her test without sounding too beta. Best answer: “I used to be something of a player I guess, but those days are behind me now.”

***

Here are some tips for keeping your game in check and avoiding overqualification:

  • Psychological routines like the Cube or palm reading are great, but don’t run more than one in a night. Spread out your best material over a few dates. It’s easy to club a woman over the head with routines.
  • Tone down the cocky funny. Don’t neg her more than once, and don’t neg a 6.5 or below unless you are an ugly man.
  • Don’t get too seductive on the first meet. Save the bedroom eyes when you have her in a private place.
  • Don’t make out with her too passionately on the first meet. Exquisitely tempting lip brushes and dances of the tongues are better day 2 tactics, after rapport has been established.
  • Don’t hit on another girl immediately after getting her number. Give it room to breathe, soldier.
  • Don’t sound too “polished”. Say something stupid or goofy once in a while, so that she can make fun of you.
  • Expose a vulnerability. Alpha dominance is best served with a garnish of endearing flaws.
  • When you number close, say “I’m looking forward to seeing you.”

If you leave a woman feeling like you may have overqualified yourself, there is a last-ditch maneuver you can do which will lessen the odds that she will withdraw from your pursuit. I have tried this on girls I thought were withdrawing from me because they were afraid I was out of their league. If a girl is making it difficult for you to set up a second date, or she doesn’t respond promptly to your flirty trial texts, and you think it might be because she has pegged you as too alpha for her pay grade, send the following text after a few days of radio silence:

“Please no gameplaying.”

In three little words you have just allayed any fear she may have harbored about the strength of your interest in her, while exposing a delicious vulnerability of the sort that women LOVE to discover in dominant men. If she likes you, she will reply to this text instantly, usually with something like “I hate gameplaying too.” Carry on, my wayward PUA.

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Posted in Game, Girls | 396 Comments

396 Responses

  1. on May 26, 2009 at 6:10 pm chic noir

    Does she put herself down? She’s fishing for compliments because she wants reassurance that you really think she is cute

    I don’t get why women do this. I’ve always reasoned that a man must find me attractive if he wants approaches me in public.

    LikeLike


  2. on May 26, 2009 at 6:11 pm chic noir

    *if he approaches me in public*

    LikeLike


  3. on May 26, 2009 at 6:22 pm maurice

    “vast pink veldt” – gotta love it.

    how often does something like this occur? i suppose it would depend on the context. highly sought-after women rarely experience shit-tests and qualification from men – part of flipping the script – so you’d probably want to keep it full-bore with them to make the point. maybe this is best for less attractive or more insecure women?

    also -what’s with the water pic?

    LikeLike


  4. on May 26, 2009 at 6:26 pm z

    I’d like to congradulate Roissy on a 1300+comment thread.

    That is an achievement, even if some of the same commenters made 30 posts in that thread. Few bloggers reach such a furious level of feedback.

    Commence……………………

    LikeLike


  5. on May 26, 2009 at 6:26 pm PA

    don’t neg a 6.5 or below unless you are an ugly man.

    I’ve noticed a trainer at my gym, who is either a supernatural alpha or a good student of Game, who seems to have internalized this.

    In fact, when doing my workouts a few pieces of equipment away from his and client’s station, I like to listen in on his game. It’s truly a treat to watch someone doing somethign really well.

    The younger and hotter chicks, he negs like hell. Within the bounds of professionalism, but he negs ’em nevertheless. But the plainer, chubbier, older, or shyer girls, he’s got more of a soft touch with. He’ll still neg them, but in a more gentle, co-conspiratorial, and friendly way.

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  6. on May 26, 2009 at 6:31 pm Cliff Arroyo

    Follow everything Roissy says and soon you too will never feel a spontaneous emotion again.

    Roissy’s advice is to relationships what McDonalds is to food.

    LikeLike


  7. on May 26, 2009 at 6:39 pm Master Dogen

    Cliff is a delicate flower; such beauty in his sensitive, gazelle-like movements!

    Roissy: I think Ross Douthat at the NYT is reading your blog, but he knows he can’t say it out loud without losing his job. But read between the lines of this article, and consider the source:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/26/opinion/26douthat.html?ref=opinion

    LikeLike


  8. on May 26, 2009 at 6:40 pm Default User

    Cliff Arroyo

    Roissy’s advice is to relationships what McDonalds is to food.

    Sometimes McDonalds hits the spot.
    [and sometimes PUAs hit the G spot]

    LikeLike


  9. on May 26, 2009 at 6:43 pm Lady Rain

    I have to ask what you do when the woman feels that it is SHE who is out of YOUR league?

    Again, the focus here seems to be on how to handle women with visible self-esteem issues….. but if the woman has high self-esteem and you were to go the opposite way and insult the shit out of her, it still wouldn’t attract a high self-esteem woman, so what do you do?

    Cliff–

    Since McDonald’s is the equivalent of Poison in food, I’m not sure if you’re incredibly insightful or really oblivious to irony.

    LikeLike


  10. on May 26, 2009 at 6:43 pm maurice

    @Master Dogen – there was a pretty long discussion of that piece today (and many related issues) on the previous thread. takeaway (from anony) was that the data in the article he cited don’t support his conclusions – and that his audience is harried feminist supermoms and beta males.

    LikeLike


  11. on May 26, 2009 at 6:43 pm Gunslingergregi

    Nice post roissy appreciate the blog bro. That shit is hitting on a lot of levels.

    LikeLike


  12. on May 26, 2009 at 6:44 pm Random

    Ha this is definitely a tough thing for me – determining if i’m overqualifying myself with too much game or underqualifying myself with too little. A good number of quality girls have confidence that is lower than their attractiveness so i think it’s often a danger with them.

    LikeLike


  13. on May 26, 2009 at 6:46 pm Firepower

    “you will have a natural inclination to press your full court advantage beyond its usefulness”

    Moderation, in all things – moderation.

    @chic noir

    NOW wtf is up with your av?? hjc

    LikeLike


  14. on May 26, 2009 at 6:47 pm Arpagus

    I don’t get why women do this. I’ve always reasoned that a man must find me attractive if he wants approaches me in public.

    He may only find you attractive enough for pump and dump and still approach you. That’s why women are wary of men who seem to good to be true.

    Now I certainly don’t have this luxury problem of overqualifying myself. Still trying to get some game in the first place.

    LikeLike


  15. on May 26, 2009 at 6:49 pm Default User

    Arpagus

    You could look at it as things for you not to do.

    LikeLike


  16. on May 26, 2009 at 6:50 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “Sometimes McDonalds hits the spot.”

    No doubt. There have been times when I’ve been absolutely thankful for the existence of McDonalds.
    One the other hand, how many people would be happy if every meal forever was McDonalds?

    Too many posts of Roissy’s seem like another acne-scarred teen asking if I want fries with that.

    LikeLike


  17. on May 26, 2009 at 6:50 pm Thursday

    One of the the worst things you can do is use too much attraction material.

    This has two ways to go wrong: you can overqualify or you can come off a try hard. Both will kill your chances of getting the girl out.

    LikeLike


  18. on May 26, 2009 at 6:53 pm Master Dogen

    @maurice: Ah, thank you. I’ll go back and read it

    @Lady Rain: No woman is invulnerable to seduction, whether she has self-esteem issues or not.

    Women you think that they are the ones out my league are the most fun to seduce, the most entertaining in bed, and the hardest to get rid of once they are addicted.

    Didn’t you notice that most of this blog is dedicated to dealing with those situations? Today’s post is like a counter-example of what happens when you succeed too well. Honestly? Before you go on a 50-post rant in here, you should go back and read the whole post again, very slowly, for comprehension purposes. I know that sounds snarky, but I am being deadly serious.

    LikeLike


  19. on May 26, 2009 at 6:54 pm Master Dogen

    Argh typo:

    “Women you think that they are the ones ” should of course read….

    “Women who think that they are the ones…”

    LikeLike


  20. on May 26, 2009 at 6:55 pm Default User

    Cliff Arroyo

    Well we know Roissy does not order supersize.

    LikeLike


  21. on May 26, 2009 at 6:55 pm PA

    Cliff — this is a blog on strategies for attracting girls. So that’s what most of the posts are about. What exactly is your quarrel with this?

    LikeLike


  22. on May 26, 2009 at 6:57 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “Cliff is a delicate flower”

    About damned time someone appreciates me!

    “I’m a wildwood flower
    Waving for you
    Broadcasting tower
    Waving for you
    And I’m sending you out
    This signal here
    I hope you can pick it up
    Loud and clear
    I know you don’t like weak women
    You get bored so quick
    And you don’t like strong women
    ‘Cause they’re hip to your tricks”

    LikeLike


  23. on May 26, 2009 at 6:59 pm Gunslingergregi

    Bye the way I never emailed rain I felt like I had already gotten to the point where I thought I would have been hittin that ass without the “logistic” problem. Sometimes you don’t have to follow through you can just practice. Don’t have to have feelings for every chick that meets your minimum criteria he he he

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  24. on May 26, 2009 at 7:02 pm Joe

    Roissy’s advice is to relationships what McDonalds is to food.

    Serves 1 billion a day? Incredibly popular? Addictive no matter how much people warn you about it? Is this an insult or compliment?

    LikeLike


  25. on May 26, 2009 at 7:03 pm Markku

    Cliff Arroyo:

    Follow everything Roissy says and soon you too will never feel a spontaneous emotion again.

    Roissy’s advice is to relationships what McDonalds is to food.

    If you experience boredom, it’s time to raise the bar. Go after more challenging targets.

    LikeLike


  26. on May 26, 2009 at 7:05 pm chic noir

    z
    I’d like to congradulate Roissy on a 1300+comment thread.

    That is an achievement, even if some of the same commenters made 30 posts in that thread

    And you read every single comment;)

    LikeLike


  27. on May 26, 2009 at 7:12 pm Master Dogen

    Awwww… and she even listens to Joni Mitchell….

    That Cliff girl is kinda sweet. I think I have a crush!

    LikeLike


  28. on May 26, 2009 at 7:14 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “Serves 1 billion a day? Incredibly popular? Addictive no matter how much people warn you about it? Is this an insult or compliment?”

    Neither, it’s an observation. They’re also both standardized to a degree that makes expressions of individuality all but impossible, concerned with quantity over quality and not … capable of terribly high quality. There’s a reason you never see restaurant reviews of McDonalds.

    Again both are good at a small niche but no one with any taste wants to build their lives around their philosophy.

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  29. on May 26, 2009 at 7:15 pm Firepower

    congratulating our benevolent host for 1300 posts
    is like congratulating your neighbor
    on having 1300 retards – with nothing better to do – drool over your mink sofa
    while you were away for Memorial Day Weekend.

    honestly chic noir, even your b-team avatar is better than what you have now – hfc

    LikeLike


  30. on May 26, 2009 at 7:17 pm Markku

    Again, the focus here seems to be on how to handle women with visible self-esteem issues….. but if the woman has high self-esteem and you were to go the opposite way and insult the shit out of her, it still wouldn’t attract a high self-esteem woman, so what do you do?

    Negging a woman, even negging hard, does not equal insulting the shit out of her. Negging typically takes the form of playful teasing or backhanded compliments.

    LikeLike


  31. on May 26, 2009 at 7:18 pm Traveller

    A very timely post for me, since I seem to be running into this rather frequently of late. This one stood out to me most:

    “Tone down the cocky funny. Don’t neg her more than once, and don’t neg a 6.5 or below unless you are an ugly man.”

    I think there’s a difference between cocky funny and negging, but the point is the same surely. My biggest problem as a budding student of game is going overboard with the cocky funny banter material. It makes me look:

    a) too snarky (bad/beta)
    b) like an asshole (good, if hot, bad if not)
    c) unable to connect with her emotionally

    All of these are bad of course, but in different ways. I really just have a hard time feeling out when to move into rapport and comfort building. And at this point, that’s just deadly. With hotter women, this can still work because I can keep the material up long enough without her freaking out, in large part because it helps me defuse her shit tests. However, with 6s-7s, I’m just floundering at sea with women who get progressively more irritated with the act.

    On the other hand, I’ve gotten good at getting women to qualify themselves right away. I was at a club some weeks back and I approached a girl with a standard (read, stupid) line: “Are you her bodyguard tonight?” (point at friend, smirk). She reacts favorably: “OMG! You’re the first guy tonight to have the courage to approach me!” (She’s an Asian HB8). I look at her friend and say: “You’re not THAT cute.” With a less attractive woman, I’d probably be DOA with that comment, but it worked – and she spent the rest of our conversation qualifying herself to me.

    What I’m seeing is this – you can be an asshole (or cocky funny) early on, but with most women, you have to transition fairly quickly. With some women, you can keep up the act almost infinitely, because those women just love them some assholes. To put it in pithy form: “You have to be an asshole with all women some of the time and with some women all of the time.”

    Great post, Roissy.

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  32. on May 26, 2009 at 7:18 pm Default User

    Cliff Arroyo

    There’s a reason you never see restaurant reviews of McDonalds.

    I see it more as someone providing a very basic recipe that each chef can make his own. Each chef adding his own spice, ingredients, mixing it up and presenting the dish in his own unique manner.
    [As dish served on a dish?]

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  33. on May 26, 2009 at 7:24 pm Lawyer from Hell

    on May 26, 2009 at 6:43 pm Lady Rain
    “I have to ask what you do when the woman feels that it is SHE who is out of YOUR league?”

    That Rain is what the neg, social proof, and stories that demonstrate your higher value are for.

    Not to mention being indirect and ignoring her.

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  34. on May 26, 2009 at 7:28 pm Lady Rain

    Master D–

    So basically what you are saying is that there is no such thing as a woman who is out of your league? One must assume that if that were true, the women are only “projecting” the image of feeling like they are “out of your league”

    So that implies that you have (what appears to be extremely high self-confidence like Roissy tells you to) whether it is “true” about you or not, correct?

    Going off that, do you actually believe that there are no women who also apply this method to their image (ie: surface appearance of very high self-esteem used for dating purposes) in order to do exactly what you are doing?

    You cannot be taken as a rational person if you think that is true. It’s a direct contradiction of yourself.

    Gunslinger–

    In what fantasy world does someone casually saying “sure send an email” translate to “I would both date and fuck you”?

    There is no way in unholy hell that I would consider dating a guy unless I saw exactly what he looked like in a thousand different outfits and images let alone by one who thinks an email address is the equivalent of an invite over.

    Also your implication that I am at the minimum of your “standards” is childish, rude, and meant to draw attention to yourself (even though you are “faceless” and making these claims).

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  35. on May 26, 2009 at 7:30 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “I see it more as someone providing a very basic recipe that each chef can make his own. Each chef adding his own spice, ingredients, mixing it up and presenting the dish in his own unique manner.”

    You’ve just described Burger King:

    Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce;
    special orders don’t upset us.
    All we ask is that you let us serve it your way…

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  36. on May 26, 2009 at 7:31 pm Default User

    Not really related but…

    It seems Computer geeks make the best lovers.

    BTW:
    I posted a geeky piece about creating links on the About page of this blog.

    I am a computer geek, what did you expect.

    LikeLike


  37. on May 26, 2009 at 7:33 pm Gunslingergregi

    After 50 trades that “extremely high self-confidence” tends to really kick in. Plus past experience. You did read what I had posted earlier in that thread right.

    LikeLike


  38. on May 26, 2009 at 7:33 pm Lady Rain

    Lawyer–

    That doesn’t even make sense. Aren’t you aware that women who have high self-esteem constantly have men “selling themselves” to her? A playful insult would at best go unnoticed or brushed off as obvious because it’s just like a little boy in first grade poking the girl he likes and throwing grass at her. It’s obvious to any woman that a guy who insults but is STILL hanging around clearly likes you.

    Also if you try the “ignore” method a woman such as this could probably care less about the one dude at the bar who’s ignoring her unless you are a golden Greek God with with a magic wand and genie lamp in tow.

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  39. on May 26, 2009 at 7:33 pm doug1

    Lady Rain / Wendy

    I have to ask what you do when the woman feels that it is SHE who is out of YOUR league?

    Again, the focus here seems to be on how to handle women with visible self-esteem issues….. but if the woman has high self-esteem and you were to go the opposite way and insult the shit out of her, it still wouldn’t attract a high self-esteem woman, so what do you do?

    This is a rather dim, ill considered question LR. You’re regressing.

    That’s what most of the rest of this blog is about, and what game generally is about.

    Negging is not “insulting the shit” out of a woman. It’s usually best done playfully most of the time. There might be bite to it initially or once in awhile, but when sustaining or returning to it playfulness is best. Also, it’s a lot better when it’s insightful — makes her feel you know who she is. Well so too is it on the rapport building side.

    As well, it’s good to figure out why she thinks she’s out of your league. Maybe you’re a lot older than men she’s usually dated. Then it helps to display convincingly that you’ve often been with hot girls her age or younger, and to demo high energy and dominant voltage.

    Self confidence bordering on or into arrogance, based on something, is always powerful. The more you’re convinced that the question is more is she in your league, the better to get her feeling the same way.

    If you can seesaw her emotions and make her sense you can make her scream, there’s a good chance that miss all that will want you to take her for a ride.

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  40. on May 26, 2009 at 7:34 pm Cannon's Canon

    “Does she suddenly get defensively snippy for no apparent reason? She’s crouched into a face-saving posture and her ego has taken over her emotions. Lawyer cunts are especially prone to this behavior.”

    Crushing the souls of lawyer cunts can be too satisfying to resist. It takes an 8 to curtail my full-blown beatdown of DHVs, possibly even higher.

    My life imitates your art, Roissy.

    LikeLike


  41. on May 26, 2009 at 7:36 pm Lady Rain

    Gunslinger–

    Are you talking to me? Your post is straight up bullshit because I’d like to know how you were “so able” to get in my pants because you asked me for my email and I said yeah sure.

    Apparently you don’t recall that I never gave it to you? How is that your guarantee? Also don’t try to disrespect me and think you have “game” against me even for practice, you are barking up the wrong tree there.

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  42. on May 26, 2009 at 7:37 pm collegeboy

    “Psychological routines like the Cube…”

    The Cube routine is chick crack, that is until some chick tells you she has already heard it. (Happened to me once.)

    LikeLike


  43. on May 26, 2009 at 7:38 pm Virgin@40

    “the Cube”???

    What is it???

    LikeLike


  44. on May 26, 2009 at 7:38 pm Arpagus

    Lady Rain

    Going off that, do you actually believe that there are no women who also apply this method to their image (ie: surface appearance of very high self-esteem used for dating purposes) in order to do exactly what you are doing?

    What would a woman gain from faking high self-esteem? I really don’t see how that would serve a female dating purpose. Men are attracted to physical beauty and not fooled by self-esteem, unlike women.

    LikeLike


  45. on May 26, 2009 at 7:40 pm Gunslingergregi

    I was practicing on you with maybe potential but then like I said before you need to do some more work on things like swearing to be able to pass muster.

    LikeLike


  46. on May 26, 2009 at 7:41 pm Mr.M

    I read on another blog (yes, SO credible) that many men let their physiques go after ~25.

    Anyone know if that’s roughly accurate?

    LikeLike


  47. on May 26, 2009 at 7:42 pm doug1

    Cliff Arroyo

    Follow everything Roissy says and soon you too will never feel a spontaneous emotion again.

    Roissy’s advice is to relationships what McDonalds is to food.

    Game as preached by Roissy does not need to be used for endless numbers of short flings, or pump and dumps, keeping number count. That may be rather what Roissy does (though I think he does more relationships than people think, from a few rare posts of his.

    It can also be used to get the one, used to be out of your league girl.

    However it is hard to impossible to learn pickup game without practicing, and a large majority of men would like to be able go through a Casanova stage for awhile. One can then transition to various ways of doing LTR’s, or even marriage (with a prenup).

    Everyone learns courting behavior. It’s not just “natural”. We learn it from role models growing up, from lessons taught at home and in school, and from the entertainment media, much of which is about attracting a love and / or the ensuing relationship. It’s just that what’s taught in American culture is very man hobbling. Roissy’s the corrective.

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  48. on May 26, 2009 at 7:44 pm Virgin@40

    “send the following text after a few days of radio silence:
    “Please no gameplaying.””

    Can it be used something in the lines of the “why are you treating me so harshly?” or “you’re a mean girl… not even a word?”

    … or even: “Are you so much under my spell that you’re afraid of talking to me again?”

    Roissy, I also think that this contradicts all you have said untill now. Although I understand that this is a “game retreat” once you have had “too much” of game and are trying to rectify it. My old man still says: Anything in excess, is not good for your health.

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  49. on May 26, 2009 at 7:44 pm collegeboy

    Virgin@40:

    The cube in text and the cube in video

    LikeLike


  50. on May 26, 2009 at 7:46 pm Lawyer from Hell

    Lady Rain
    “Lawyer–

    That doesn’t even make sense. Aren’t you aware that women who have high self-esteem constantly have men “selling themselves” to her? A playful insult would at best go unnoticed or brushed off as obvious because it’s just like a little boy in first grade poking the girl he likes and throwing grass at her. It’s obvious to any woman that a guy who insults but is STILL hanging around clearly likes you.

    Also if you try the “ignore” method a woman such as this could probably care less about the one dude at the bar who’s ignoring her unless you are a golden Greek God with with a magic wand and genie lamp in tow.”

    If it made “sense” then women would naturally gravitate to men with incredible IQs because of the gift those individuals give humanity. This is not the case.

    To begin with, the man that does not fawn over her stands out.

    Second, your parents anchored the idea that the boy that mistreats you likes you when you were a child when they told you “Little Timmy is just being mean because he likes you.” So unfortunately, like it or not, women respond to men being assholes. Or if you prefer, assertive and self confident. Deny this if you want, but reality is different.

    By ignoring, I would say his focus is on others. Say you and your two friends, (since by a rule women go in packs because it is too obvious if they are flying solo that they are looking for a hook up)get approached and the guy focuses on them, they like him a lot and he wins them over, you may say otherwise, but the opinions of other women MATTER to you. If every other woman likes him, you will be more likely drawn to him.

    The more control the man has over the social setting, the more attractive he will seem.

    I concede that not every woman can be won by every man, regardless. I also concede that the more men lapping happily at a woman’s feet makes it harder to get to her.

    If I go some place and the only attractive woman is surrounded by 6+ men prancing around like trained dogs, I don’t even bother. There are other women in other venues.

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  51. on May 26, 2009 at 8:00 pm Lady Rain

    Lawyer–

    Okay your last line gives me an answer to another question. At least you seem to be rational enough to recognize that a woman who is very attractive + high self esteem just MIGHT not give a shit because she has other options (meaning you recognize this and see you also have other options)

    As opposed to Master D and Aspargus who refuse to admit that there ARE women who are out of their league (has other options) and just live in a world very much outside of reality to go so far as to answer me in disbelief:

    “What woman pretends to have high self-esteem? How does this help her?!”

    Since he seemed to genuinely mean that I’ll assume that he really believes this and field an answer.

    While a woman may attract a man based on her looks, you are asking a really foolish question to say “what would a woman gain with feigned self esteem”? Men also do not necessarily like “desperation” and no matter how physically attractive a woman is if she’s negative about herself or projects low self-esteem she is less attractive and assumed to be less “in-demand” in the same way as a man. If you put two women together who are equally attractive in everyway you don’t think their confidence level would eventually determine who is actually more attractive/valuable????

    You clearly do not even understand the game you claim to play yourself.

    Gunslinger–

    If you say you were practicing game, okay fine whatever but I don’t see how you came to any conclusion since we have exchanged any personal information and the fact that you automatically believed me at my word when I threw you a “yeah sure whatever” and then DIDNT give you an email addy….. shows you need to study up on your game and “obvious polite rejection” radar.

    If you were referring to being somewhat polite to me in passing convo on here… that hardly gets me “hot”.

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  52. on May 26, 2009 at 8:00 pm Master Dogen

    Lady Rain said

    One must assume that if that were true, the women are only “projecting” the image of feeling like they are “out of your league”

    Well, basically, yes. They are projecting that feeling. The whole “league” thing isn’t normally how I think, to be honest. But those were the terms getting tossed around.

    You’re right that I don’t consider any woman to be “out of my league,” because they’re not. Roissy didn’t tell me to do shit. That’s just how I feel.

    Now if a woman is not into me, that’s cool. I’ll never get through all 3.5 billion of them anyway.

    But if she thinks she’s too good for me (aka “out of my league”), she’s wrong. She’s using false categories. But that’s cool, too. It’s these latter women that I say are the most fun to seduce, because I get a kick out of it. The turnaround is highly entertaining, and I’m serious when I say that these ones become by far the most clingy. I love it!

    I don’t see women as above me or below me; I see them as objects and subjects of desire. I enjoy their company. But of course I am conscious of the fact that there is such a thing as sexual market value, and that most women (perhaps not all) make constant micro-calculations as to where a certain man fits into the social hierarchy. And if enough people agree on something, it takes on the quality of objective truth. Esse est percipi, right? So sometimes advice like the one in this post is helpful.

    There’s nothing “irrational” in any of this. Do you see why? I don’t any women is out of my “league” because I see myself as a league of one. Nevertheless, I find it helpful to understand how people around me view the social hierarchy.

    I live this way because it makes me happy, and because I think it is true. Whether or not it’s your personal way of living life, do you see how someone could view things this way and still be internally consistent?

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  53. on May 26, 2009 at 8:05 pm Master Dogen

    Lady Rain said

    As opposed to Master D and Aspargus who refuse to admit that there ARE women who are out of their league (has other options) and just live in a world very much outside of reality to go so far as to answer me in disbelief

    /smiles

    I’m going to be charitable, Rain, and assume that if you had had a chance to read my reply before you posted this that you wouldn’t be slandering me so.

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  54. on May 26, 2009 at 8:08 pm Virgin@40

    “congratulating our benevolent host for 1300 posts
    is like congratulating your neighbor
    on having 1300 retards – with nothing better to do – drool over your mink sofa
    while you were away for Memorial Day Weekend”

    LOL Flowerpower, LOL…

    Congratulations nontheless Roissy, for having us, the retards according to Flowerpower. It’s not anyone who can gather so many people.

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  55. on May 26, 2009 at 8:10 pm doug1

    Lady Rain–

    If you put two women together who are equally attractive in everyway you don’t think their confidence level would eventually determine who is actually more attractive/valuable????

    As we all know looks matter most in attracting men, then for many alpha men sexiness – a sexual hunger vibe.

    The more confidence in a man the better, almost without limit well into moderate arrogance (and for some women full fledged arrogance). Confidence in women adds to up a certain level of it, and then begins to detract. At the border of arrogance it detracts a lot, for most alphas. Not saying if she’s hot and sexy enough it will scotch the deal. Saying it’s not helping but rather hurting over a point.

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  56. on May 26, 2009 at 8:11 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “Game as preached by Roissy does not need to be used for endless numbers of short flings, or pump and dumps, keeping number count. That may be rather what Roissy does (though I think he does more relationships than people think, from a few rare posts of his.”

    Since men are the way we are, most will use ‘game’ to pump and dump, period until it’s too late (the same way some women depend solely on their looks …. until it’s too late.

    “It can also be used to get the one, used to be out of your league girl.”

    If she’s really out of your league in terms of basic compatability, the no amount of game will do anything but create a simulacrum of a human relationship. A pretty fantasy, while it lasts, but reality tends to make its presence felt (with devastating results).

    “a large majority of men would like to be able go through a Casanova stage for awhile”

    The thing now is that many women want to go through a Messalina stage before settling down. Although gender/sex differences tend to result in different … scales of expression both men and women are programmed to want a spell of screwing around followed by settling down.
    Now, ff the Cassanovas can accept this then more power to them. If they want perfect unspoiled virgins after their debaucheries then they’re fools. And not being able or willing to settle down is indication of delayed emotional development (of the kind that no sane person wants to use as a role model).

    “Everyone learns courting behavior…It’s just that what’s taught in American culture is very man hobbling. Roissy’s the corrective”

    Except that Roissy seems to expect that women don’t know/suspect what he’s up to, while I suspect that a large majority of the women he sleeps with are using him as much as he’s using them (maybe more so since the chances of him not being a biological father are rather remote).

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  57. on May 26, 2009 at 8:13 pm Lady Rain

    Master D–

    I appreciate that because no I didn’t. So let me answer you this way because your answer only slightly changes my perspective.

    Do I think it’s bad to have extremely high self-esteem and for you to feel like no woman is out of your league? No. High self esteem is not a bad thing. I’m not bashing you for that.

    What I am saying is even as you describe how easy it is to land these high self-esteem woman and such you make references to “I can accept maybe they’re not INTO me” and things like that.

    This is where I’m getting my opinion of you being irrational. Maybe she considers herself out of your league. You refuse to acknowledge that immediately make it that she has some ridiculous issue and that’s the only reason she’s rejecting you (ie: “not into me”)

    You describe how high your esteem is to the point where it doesn’t matter what anyone says, you believe you can get anyone. Fine. Let’s assume that’s true.

    Again, do you actually think that there aren’t women who genuinely feel the same way about themselves and will never fall victim to your game? Do you honestly believe in a room filled with movie stars and millionaires that if a woman didn’t “choose you” it’s because there’s something wrong with HER and that “her categories are wrong”?

    I just question how rational a person you are if you cannot even admit such an obvious truth about both men/women and that if you are rejected and brad pitt is chosen over you it’s because SHE fails to see how you ARE a better choice? lol… I mean come on….

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  58. on May 26, 2009 at 8:18 pm Arpagus

    Lady Rain–

    I certainly don’t believe no woman is out of my league. In fact I believe most are, based on experience, and of course 100% of women have other options, but it might still be worthwhile trying to pick her up and you don’t know for sure that you can’t have her if you don’t try.

    As for self-esteem playing a role in women’s “game,” if women can even be said to have such a thing, I think you are forgetting how different men and women are. I really think it is mostly irrelevant.

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  59. on May 26, 2009 at 8:19 pm Lady Rain

    Cliff–

    You just made my point. Thank you. This whole system is based on actually deluding yourself into thinking that there are NO women who are “onto” your game and that only “ugly skanks” will use them in the same way. (an excellent way to protect their egos in advance but an irrational lie).

    Also a reminder to everyone else? Cassanova died of Syphilis. I think there’s some foreshadowing there gentlemen.

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  60. on May 26, 2009 at 8:23 pm Lady Rain

    Arpagus–

    If you honestly think women don’t have self-esteem like you just stated… referring to female self-esteem as some sort of mystical unicorn and “dismissible” in terms of dating makes it clear you have not dated at all or only once or twice. I don’t mean that to toss out an insult, I say that because it’s SO ridiculous that only someone who genuinely has no idea what they’re talking about would say that.

    I know plenty of women including myself who know they’re attractive and refuse to settle for anything less than princess treatment. Why? It’s what I require and deserve and that’s that. Believe it or not there are plenty of men who are fine with that and still aren’t simpering crybabies and the nastier a woman is to a guy, the more they practically worship the ground they walk on and if you don’t know this…. you should hardly be worrying about application of game at this time.

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  61. on May 26, 2009 at 8:25 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Rain, what IS your point?

    Do you think you’re going to somehow convince the regular readers and commenters here that game is “bad?”

    Thus far you’ve pretty much demonstrated one thing in your entire weekend of inundating this blog with your opinions: that you’ve already made up your mind about “game,” that you think you understand it (you don’t), and that no matter how much people try to explain it to you, you obstinately cling to your straw man arguments.

    What do you think you’re going to accomplish vis a vis your participation here?

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  62. on May 26, 2009 at 8:26 pm Lady Rain

    Also, yes women and men ARE very different, however they are not different species altogether. When you start to consider them as such is where your dating problems begin.

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  63. on May 26, 2009 at 8:27 pm Default User

    Lady Rain

    One thing to consider here is that we are mostly talking about sexual attraction, not selecting a mate. Sexual attraction is the first (and important) step in creating a romantic relationship. Whether that relationship is for tonight or forever, the first step is sexual attraction.

    Sexual attraction operates below the radar of logic. We can try and explain the logic of it but it is not logic. It does not respond to logic, it just happens (or does not happen).

    We can describe things like facial symmetry, wait hip ratio, neotany. All of those relate to female sexual attractiveness. However, I can assure you that when I see a beautiful woman I am not calculating waist/hip ratios or considering abstract stuff like facial symmetry. The attraction stuff just works, beautifully and invisibly.

    I can try and convince myself that facial symmetry or waist/hip ratios have no bearing on a woman’s character. That works until she walks into the room with a sway of her hourglass (.70 w/h ratio) hips and flash of those big eyes. My brain may mutter but my body shouts.

    It is no different for a woman. Her brain may mutter but it gently shushed by her body.

    Granted once sexual attraction is achieved the issues of character come into play (long term bonding). However, sexual attraction works no matter how we try and out think it.

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  64. on May 26, 2009 at 8:27 pm aoefe

    @ virgin 40
    “or even: “Are you so much under my spell that you’re afraid of talking to me again?”

    I have an attractive, alpha male trying some game on me these days. We met on a plane coming back from our respective Vegas vacations. He started his conversation on the plane with he wouldn’t ” allow” his girlfriend if he had one to go to Vegas unaccompanied. My ears picked up and I took a closer look. Charming, neg’ed me on my fanciness, and swore he never kisses on the first date. He played me well and I enjoyed it. At baggage claims he said “it’s too bad I don’t kiss on the first date cuz we just had ours”. I said “too bad I would have let you”. Swoop – he kissed me.

    Texted some. Then he stopped, I stopped. Four days passed. I swore I wouldn’t chase – I read He’s Just Not that Into You – ok! So he texts… “Missing me right?” Gotta admit the text worked. It was enough for me to know I’d crossed his mind but arrogant enough for him to point out it was me missing him not t’other way round. Good game.

    No end to this story yet – but I like that I’m learning men’s game here folks!

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  65. on May 26, 2009 at 8:27 pm Bhetti

    Lady Rain: Part of the reason why lo

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  66. on May 26, 2009 at 8:29 pm Arpagus

    I am not saying women don’t have self-esteem. All I am saying is that is has little bearing on how men view them. Face it, women can’t significantly influence their value by changing their outlook.

    I suppose it could make a difference in the case of identical twins. But not much beyond that.

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  67. on May 26, 2009 at 8:29 pm Lady Rain

    Dave–

    ummm hi. I am responding to a question. I think it’s obvious. Also I didn’t say game doesn’t work, I’m saying it doesn’t work they way they think it does.

    Also, it’s amusing and entertaining.

    Anyone who has taken “intro to psychology” in 9th grade would understand “game theory” which is what makes it so subjective and pointless.

    Everyone is aware of it. It’s like telling someone “hey, did you know you have an unconscious mind?”

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  68. on May 26, 2009 at 8:31 pm Virgin@40

    Thank you College(school?)boy.
    And I added that site to my favourite ones. Interesting and really great man. I can tell you that where I am – in Southwestern Europe – no girl has heard about the cube. And man, it gives you some 20 minutes of fairly good rapport and much, much to built from there. I am really gratefull man.

    However, I’ve heard of a similar but nowhere that complex game. It is quickier though, and alouds you to neg a girl. You have to say a flower a colour and a tool.
    Deending on how common/predictable the girl’s answers are, you will tell her that she has a weak personality, is based in group thinking, etc and you can relate to what you already know from her. If she says something unusual, you can claim that she’s a strange outcast or something.

    I also bet the cube is to be used when you have passed through attraction and are starting to create confort but you’re stuck in that odd moment in which the words won’t flow.
    In a word boy: Awessome! Thanks man.

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  69. on May 26, 2009 at 8:32 pm The Truth Hurts.

    Lady Rain,

    gunslingeregi already failed at picking up bhetti. he lost bhetti to doug1. it was a epic failure. castastrophically fun to watch as the battle for bhetti unfolds. when the dust settles, his balls was cut into pieces by doug1. that is why gunslingeregi is trying to rebound by “claiming to pick you(lady rain)up”. he is a reject. he is trying to use you to look good.
    gunslingeregi has practically failed to pick up any woman here. and yes he has made a pass on every woman here. from bhetti to lilgrl. practically everyone. i guess you can add yourself to his list of failed pickups. oh maybe, with you, he will be lucky.

    the truth hurts.

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  70. on May 26, 2009 at 8:33 pm Dave from Hawaii

    I didn’t say you said “game doesn’t work.”

    I said ” you’ve already made up your mind about “game,” that you think you understand it (you don’t).”

    To which you wrote:

    Anyone who has taken “intro to psychology” in 9th grade would understand “game theory” which is what makes it so subjective and pointless.

    Everyone is aware of it. It’s like telling someone “hey, did you know you have an unconscious mind?””

    …thereby proving my point.

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  71. on May 26, 2009 at 8:33 pm Challenge

    Are you a player? “I have a lot of friends you could call players.”

    Don’t answer the question. Alphas hang with other alphas. This is a way of saying “yes” without failing the shit test. It also opens yourself up to telling amusing stories about your crazy friends.

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  72. on May 26, 2009 at 8:33 pm doug1

    aoefe–

    I have an attractive, alpha male trying some game on me these days.

    Nice anecdote. Hope it pans out for you.

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  73. on May 26, 2009 at 8:34 pm Master Dogen

    @ Lady Rain

    Thanks for the graceful re-engagement. Well done.

    I only object to one thing in your reply, and that’s that you seem to be confusing me with Roissy.

    “What I am saying is even as you describe how easy it is to land these high self-esteem woman and such you make references to “I can accept maybe they’re not INTO me” and things like that.

    This is where I’m getting my opinion of you being irrational. Maybe she considers herself out of your league. You refuse to acknowledge that immediately make it that she has some ridiculous issue and that’s the only reason she’s rejecting you”

    I don’t mention “game” in my comments on this thread; I didn’t say anything about assuming a girl must have “some ridiculous issue.” To pick nits, I didn’t even mention the term “high self-esteem,” though I guess that’s a fair characterization of how I feel about myself.

    “you cannot even admit such an obvious truth about both men/women and that if you are rejected and brad pitt is chosen over you it’s because SHE fails to see how you ARE a better choice?”

    I’m not a better or worse “choice.” And I’ve never been in the situation where it was either me or Brad Pitt. I’m sure lots of women would go for Brad, though I assure you not all would. And I wouldn’t see that as being “rejected.”

    I do get your point, Rain. I totally accept that it’s true on it’s own merits and it makes sense within the terms you are using. I’m not “irrational.” It’s just completely irrelevant to how I prefer to see things and live my life! 🙂

    And, for the record, I don’t view high-value (very beautiful and interesing/charming personality) women that I am with as “victims of my game.” I view them as the other half of a pair of people who have agreed to spend some amazing time together. I use the word “seduction,” yes, but in my view seduction can be a wonderful, agonizing/thrilling play and doesn’t have to be creepy and calculating.

    I never view a woman who goes to bed with me as someone who “fell victim to one of my tricks.” I see her as an adult who saw a desirable man and freely chose to spend the night with him. I’m interested in these “tricks” and “tells” and what-not only to the degree that they help me and others to see mistakes that humans (yes, even Masters) sometimes make, because we humans are mistake-prone and myopic. Other than that, I’m not interested into “tricking” anyone into anything, male or female.

    But again, I think you feel me, but we are stuck using clumsy terms and that’s the source of our disagreement.

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  74. on May 26, 2009 at 8:35 pm roissy

    single mother rapidly careening toward the wall:
    Going off that, do you actually believe that there are no women who also apply this method to their image (ie: surface appearance of very high self-esteem used for dating purposes) in order to do exactly what you are doing?

    women’s desirability to men is in the near term almost completely wrapped up in their physical attractiveness, so adopting a posture of irrational self-confidence would not work for them like it would for men. there is just no way for a woman to boost her sexual market value — her face and bod — with a tactic of superficially inflated self-esteem. makeup and sexy clothes will only add about 1 point maximum to the typical woman’s attractiveness, but that’s one point more than faux self-confidence will add, so that is where women put most of their effort.
    of course if a woman wants to slut it up and advertise her insta-availability to a certain class of man she can always post pics of her ass on myspace, right underneath tender loving pics of her son. heh.

    You cannot be taken as a rational person if you think that is true. It’s a direct contradiction of yourself.

    you’re not at smart as you think you are.

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  75. on May 26, 2009 at 8:35 pm Default User

    aoefe

    Thumbs up to your man. Sounds like he made a good start. Don’t make it too easy for him (he seems kind of alphaish) but don’t make it too difficult either (I would hate him to bail on you).

    And please keep up the field reports.

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  76. on May 26, 2009 at 8:36 pm Virgin@40

    “shows you need to study up on your game and “obvious polite rejection” radar.”

    (not so) “obvious polite rejection”. So you’re that type?

    Bitch.

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  77. on May 26, 2009 at 8:36 pm Master Dogen

    Ugh… Smiley faces are so unfortunate. I feel dirty.

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  78. on May 26, 2009 at 8:37 pm Thursday

    Guys, stop feeding the attention whore.

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  79. on May 26, 2009 at 8:37 pm Roissy vs Lady Rain.

    Damn, roissy.

    You sure know how to deliver the knockout punch.

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  80. on May 26, 2009 at 8:37 pm Lady Rain

    Arpagus–

    How can I face something that is plain old untrue? As a woman I know it is common knowledge among other women to joke and say “isn’t it amazing how you can be almost nasty and they come back after nursing their egos?” or “he’s playing this game with me and it’s annoying but at least interesting so I’ll def bite, it’s fun!”

    Women’s physical appearance is very important, yes. I’m not arguing that. However a physically beautiful women that is clinging to your side/her friends side constantly checking her reflection, sucking in her non-existent belly, and circling the room fishing for compliments would appear MUCH LESS ATTRACTIVE than a woman who is NOT doing those things (to put it as simply as I can). You cannot argue this, it’s just true.

    Default User–

    Yes I agree with many of those points as the human mind is often unaware of this mathematical equation taking place in the unconscious mind telling you “attractive” or “not attractive” whether you like it or not.

    The point others here are missing is that I’m simply pointing out that the human mind also automatically detects “desperation” or “easygoing” which will be a determining factor in that answer your mind gives you as to “attractive or not”.

    Therefore esteem makes a huge difference for women as well as men regardless of the “base physical beauty”.

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  81. on May 26, 2009 at 8:38 pm Dave from Hawaii

    women’s desirability to men is in the near term almost completely wrapped up in their physical attractiveness, so adopting a posture of irrational self-confidence would not work for them like it would for men. there is just no way for a woman to boost her sexual market value — her face and bod — with a tactic of superficially inflated self-esteem.

    One would think that anyone who has taken “intro to psychology” in 9th grade would understand this.

    of course if a woman wants to slut it up and advertise her insta-availability to a certain class of man she can always post pics of her ass on myspace, right underneath tender loving pics of her son. heh.

    DOH!

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  82. on May 26, 2009 at 8:42 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    To get back to the original post *ahem,* has anyone out there found that if you come off as too successful women start not to like you?

    I spend years achieving things in the real world with the gaol of being a better “catch,” yet found I pulled the most babes as a dirt-poor 19-year-old with no prospects.

    I think women today compete against men and while they like money, they seem to like playboys with money, not guys who are driven to make it. Or maybe it’s me. Any ideas?

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  83. on May 26, 2009 at 8:45 pm Lady Rain

    Master–

    Thank you for making it a clear-cut conversation. You understand that your confidence may/may not be warranted but you don’t care. I’d never put you down for that! I’m glad you don’t see these women as victims because they are not. Some women are fine knowing a guy is gaming her and as long as she’s “aware” she feels she can opt out at anytime. There’s nothing wrong with that either and it happens frequently.

    This is what makes the difference in my mind to people who are taking the blog as what it is “passable dating advice” as opposed to otherworld reality super-cock helping to destroy the “feminst machine”.

    I’m glad to see you’re a normal person who understands the difference between blindly following and selectively considering.

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  84. on May 26, 2009 at 8:46 pm collegeboy

    “of course if a woman wants to slut it up and advertise her insta-availability to a certain class of man she can always post pics of her ass on myspace, right underneath tender loving pics of her son. heh.”

    Ouch…well played demon roissy.

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  85. on May 26, 2009 at 8:47 pm Firepower

    a good blog post

    soon to reach burial
    by mooing, bleating
    fuglies

    in tertiary denial stage

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  86. on May 26, 2009 at 8:51 pm Master Dogen

    Rain: back at ya.

    In other developments:

    “otherworld reality super-cock”

    New tag line, Roissy? I think Rain just handed you one there, without meaning to.

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  87. on May 26, 2009 at 8:52 pm Virgin@40

    Aoefe,

    ” Gotta admit the text worked. It was enough for me to know I’d crossed his mind but arrogant enough for him to point out it was me missing him not t’other way round. Good game.”

    I can’t believe it! You’re the first girl here (and in all the other places) to utter that I have some good game!!!
    I bet you’re guy will make you feel greatly for a while, as long as you’re a good girl… I wish the best to you, girl.

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  88. on May 26, 2009 at 8:53 pm aoefe

    @Lady Rain

    “it is common knowledge among other women to joke and say “isn’t it amazing how you can be almost nasty and they come back after nursing their egos?” or “he’s playing this game with me and it’s annoying but at least interesting so I’ll def bite, it’s fun!”
    end

    I honestly don’t want to waste words on you. I called the men on here yesterday for giving you too much space and here you are hogging it again.

    That said.

    I call BULLSHIT. I have a ton of women friends and we’ve never sat around discussing how fun it is to be nasty to men and have them come back for more. May I suggest you become a professional Domme and make money doing something you’re good at.

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  89. on May 26, 2009 at 8:54 pm Lady Rain

    Roissy–

    Actually I clearly am. Your entire post just consisted of you saying “women’s self esteem doesn’t add/detract from her overall value”. Correct? Yet you leave it at that. Nothing to back it up, no psychological stats, nothing. So you basically just shared your opinion with me based on….. your opinion and no actual fact.

    To take attention away from your obvious “because I said so” answer you then reacted like a squealing schoolgirl and tried to turn me on the defensive about my myspace page which has nothing to do with the perfectly logical question I just asked you to answer. Your less intelligent readers might not catch this, but I have as I’m sure some others will too.

    Did you know the first defense of a person who is dishonest/lying is to change the subject and then attack and put the other person on the defensive? You make this evident even online, I fail to believe you manage to mask things like this when you’re “projecting your self-esteem” which is more evidence that most of your “experiences” are bullshit and your advice is based on your personal opinion topped with bs and that in actuality you know nothing and just wanted to write a blog.

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  90. on May 26, 2009 at 8:54 pm Lady Rains Lil Bastard

    momma, is gunny my new daddy? i’ve just set my bed on fire while you were on the puter.

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  91. on May 26, 2009 at 8:56 pm Default User

    Lady Rain

    Therefore esteem makes a huge difference for women as well as men regardless of the “base physical beauty”.

    Not really.

    Self-esteem (confidence) makes a huge difference to a man’s sexual attractiveness. It makes little difference to a woman’s sexual attractiveness. It is true extremes are unattractive but for most woman it will make no difference. Also, extremely high self-esteem (bitchiness) is as unattractive as extremely low self-esteem (neurosis) for a woman. Extremely high self-esteem (confidence) is not unattractive for a man.

    A man will up his attractiveness by upping his confidence. A change in confidence can lift a man from invisible to attractive. An ugly woman can do nothing by raising her self-esteem. Between two identical women higher self-esteem might help. But how often are we faced with two identical beauties?
    [PUA answer threesome]

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  92. on May 26, 2009 at 8:59 pm Virgin@40

    The Truth Hurts indeed. But the truth does not need to be spoken all the times. Poor other guy… (maybe a) good heart trying to pick up women… I only object if the women are with me or if it’s online.

    The Truth Hurts? Sometimes. It usually hurts most not to know it. Potentially, at least.

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  93. on May 26, 2009 at 8:59 pm wow

    Lady Rain: ‘Out of my league…” No such thing!

    Her shit sprays the bowl when she eats Mexican food too!”

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  94. on May 26, 2009 at 9:00 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “women’s desirability to men is in the near term almost completely wrapped up in their physical attractiveness, so adopting a posture of irrational self-confidence would not work for them like it would for men”

    Translation: I can see a lot better than I can think.

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  95. on May 26, 2009 at 9:02 pm Lady Rain

    Default,

    Ah, but you’re basing that on the high self-esteem woman coming off as “bitchy”. Mind you, I am not implying ARROGANCE on a woman’s part is attractive. It is most often not…. it implies a feeling of entitlement that she may not be deserving of.

    Actual female confidence on the otherhand doesn’t come off “bitchy” (or it shouldnt!) and would be more evident in a woman who is not “over the top” and can engage in conversation easily without checking herself against every other woman, for example or feeling rather neutrally about the fantastic sports car you have. That means the woman is confident in herself and not desperate to leech off someone so it should come off more “casual” than anything else.

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  96. on May 26, 2009 at 9:06 pm Default User

    Emerald aoefe

    To Lady Rain:
    I honestly don’t want to waste words on you. I called the men on here yesterday for giving you too much space and here you are hogging it again.

    You worry too much for us.

    It is just lighthearted fun. If it weren’t for Lady Rain we would be discussing the fall of Western Civ, the plague of feminism, or whether White guys got game. So this makes a nice break.

    And Top of the evenin’ to ya

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  97. on May 26, 2009 at 9:07 pm anony

    @Lady Rain,
    -you’ve stated yourself that you have no women friends, so how can you now quote any?
    -what data have you brought to the table?

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  98. on May 26, 2009 at 9:07 pm aoefe

    @doug, default user, virgin

    Thanks guys. I’ll keep you updated on the ole plane dude story as it goes along. Currently he’s at the I’m just getting out of a heartbreak relationship and not sure I’m ready for dating (but plleeease fuck me) stage and I’m all …you know, I’m ready for a relationship and I’ve promised my self when I make love it’ll mean make love. He’s still texting…so ya he’s interested. It could be really good game with one goal in mind or it could mean he’s seeing if I’m quality. Jury is out.

    P.S. – I don’t see game as a dirty word. I think it makes sense to have an edge. We live in a competitive world don’t we?

    LikeLike


  99. on May 26, 2009 at 9:10 pm aoefe

    @default user

    Then it’s just me who’s irritated? Shoot.

    LikeLike


  100. on May 26, 2009 at 9:12 pm Virgin@40

    Aoefe,

    “I call BULLSHIT. I have a ton of women friends and we’ve never sat around discussing how fun it is to be nasty to men and have them come back for more.”

    So, are you saying you’re a man? I don’t believe that women who act as you say exist. What about them going down the streets/bars/clubs in the night…

    “May I suggest you become a professional Domme and make money doing something you’re good at.”

    UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU…. Nailed it! And the feminist suffered a blow…

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  101. on May 26, 2009 at 9:12 pm Dave from Hawaii

    No, aoefe, it’s not just you.

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  102. on May 26, 2009 at 9:13 pm Rum

    Lady Rain

    Sooner or later you will learn what it is like to be a woman whose looks have departed. Part of that experience will be discovering that no amount of “attitude” or coy behavior on your part will make the slightest difference in how men see you..
    Attractive women really cannot make themselves un-attractive unless they hide inside a head to toe bag. Being rude towards a guy tends to attract/encourage them simply because it is not ignoring them – which the default mode most hot women show to most men.

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  103. on May 26, 2009 at 9:14 pm Gunslingergregi

    at The truth hurts

    Sometimes the truth can hurt very deeply but only if it is true. What people don’t understand about when men may fight over a woman is that it is not really about the woman it may just be about honor and respect. Sometimes you wish better out of a person and it doesn’t happen. But you don’t get your balls cut to pieces when someone threatens to kill you and you offer a duel and they refuse.

    Lilgrl did not hit on at all.

    Sometimes you need to read for comprehension in order to speak the truth. It also helps to make it a practice for the most part in your life.

    There have been 3 woman who have met my minimum threshold on this blog that where unattached only one of them is still in the running and this part from roissy would have helped.
    “””””””””Does she put herself down? She’s fishing for compliments because she wants reassurance that you really think she is cute.””””””””””

    At the end of the day I am looking for the third string woman for my life that can help me implement my vision for my families future. Comprehend that let it sink into the brain the ramifications of that.

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  104. on May 26, 2009 at 9:16 pm doug1

    Roissy 1 L.Rain 0
    Guns 0 L.Rain 1
    Aeofe 1 L.Rain 0
    Doug1 1 L.Rain 0
    Default 1 L.Rain 0

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  105. on May 26, 2009 at 9:16 pm whiskey

    Lady Rain —

    What most men learn early on, is to winnow or eliminate women from consideration. Indicators she’s not interested, has a boyfriend around, is just there for girls night out, whatever, men learn how to pick up on that and it’s a major part of Game. Figuring out which girls are a waste of time and not bothering.

    This is part of an honest Strengths/Weaknesses assessment most men do with themselves. If your appeal is mostly status, power, conversational vivacity, then you’ll adjust your approach. Eliminate girls from consideration who have indicators that they prefer more physical attributes of men. Conversely, if your appeal is your physique, you’ll emphasize that.

    It’s like playing Sherlock Holmes/the Mentalist etc. But it’s a modified version of what fortune tellers do (quickly assess potential clients and tell them what they want to hear). This requires both a “female” aspect to dealing with women (intense focus on social cues/body language etc.) and “male” decision making (ignoring those who are unlikely to find you attractive, quickly analysing prospects based on predicted probabilities of success).

    Game therefore helps women, because men with Game simply ignore and don’t bother women who are unlikely to be interested in them.

    Re: “Out of your league?” This implies some sort of superiority, rather than mutual fitness. Most men over 30 would gladly trade downward a bit in looks for intelligence, “niceness” and fewer past sex partners. A woman who is very physically attractive will actually be in less demand for a LTR than a slightly less attractive woman who seems to have fewer sex partners and is perceived to be “smarter and nicer.” Beautiful women who attract a lot of male attention early, often have a problem with this, not understanding that their appeal is not (after High School) just based on their beauty but prospects for LTR. “Trashy” behavior often disqualifies them from men considering women for LTRs. This bites them on the behind in their thirties.

    Another part of Game is sharpening your own preferences for women. For men, this generally means not focused on looks after a “floor” of attractiveness is reached in favor of other attributes.

    Put it another way. Ugly Rock guys, some truly ugly, generally score with the most beautiful women. So let’s be honest, women’s assessment of attractives is a sliding scale on the say, Steve Tyler scale.

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  106. on May 26, 2009 at 9:17 pm Default User

    Emerald aoefe

    @default user

    Then it’s just me who’s irritated? Shoot.

    Go on. Let your inner bitch roar.

    Dare I say Get your Irish up!.

    🙂

    LikeLike


  107. on May 26, 2009 at 9:18 pm Lady Rain

    anony–

    No, I stated that I never worked with a large group of women (we were discussing at work)

    And at some point I also said “I don’t keep many female friends as I don’t identify well with them”.

    So do I hang with tons of women regularly? Definitely not. This is because I’m a Machinist so there just aren’t any!! However I of course have “been around” women and also have a sister and a niece. My examples of things women say were meant to be examples not literal but myself being guilty of some of this? absolutely.

    I don’t have to bring data because I am not writing a blog telling people that I have found the Fountain of Youth of Dating and that only through me (like Christ) can you attain this greatness. If I were making these claims I’d be one person responsible to bear evidence. In this case that is Roissy.

    My only responsibility (if you want to put it in a fun legal way) is create a shadow of doubt as to the actual evidence of his claims! He has thus far only offered things he learned from others (which is fine), his opinion (also fine), and made it to be a lifestyle that will end all men’s problems with feminism and their own self esteem issues. Not to mention getting laid. Where are the ice cream and ponies?

    In all seriousness my issue is that Roissy makes some pretty broad generalizations and promises based on nothing more than ideas tossed around by others and his own opinion and “personal experience” which he can’t prove.

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  108. on May 26, 2009 at 9:18 pm aoefe

    @virgin

    “So, are you saying you’re a man? I don’t believe that women who act as you say exist. What about them going down the streets/bars/clubs in the night…”

    No I’m saying I hang with a different sort of women and they do exist. I can’t say much about women at bars I don’t hang out there, so you may be right. Which if that is the case, may I suggest you look for other venues? Just sayin…Oh and yes I’m a woman.

    I also might have missed your point and if I did I’m sorry.

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  109. on May 26, 2009 at 9:20 pm Virgin@40

    “@default user
    Then it’s just me who’s irritated? Shoot.”

    Not that you were talking to me but…
    … well, I’m a bit irritated because I just lost thirty minutes reading what probabily is a troll instead of something “productive”. I am however touched by your reactions…

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  110. on May 26, 2009 at 9:22 pm joel

    M’Lady,

    Your hypothetical higher value woman will certainly reject many men who approach her. Game is not about a guaranteed outcome. I just can’t get the point of your complaint.

    Game is all about men increasing their odds of getting a woman they want. If being nice to a women, giving her stuff, being tender and loving to her, declaring your devotion to her, etc. actually worked in the real world, Roissy would not have a popular blog.

    Most good men treat women they value highly as outlined in the prior paragraph, but, experience shows this is counterproductive.

    You yourself are a living example of a typical woman who rejects men who behave in this way towards her.

    Thus, we have Game. Men purposely acting like assholes and dickheads and exuding an air of danger and excitement because women just eat that stuff up.

    And, yes, women can and indeed must be very rejecting. A pretty woman just can’t accept every approach she gets. But, like the man said, going 2 for 10 is better than going 0 for 2.

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  111. on May 26, 2009 at 9:23 pm maurice

    @aeofe – first, thanks for sticking around, congrats on your new sorta-relationship, and no, you’re not the only one that’s annoyed.

    @LR – i like your posts and style more and more – you don’t take shit – but you haven’t understood the basic ideas and terms of game. roissy’s point is/was that men and women have totally different baseline standards of attraction. this is borne out by a lot of experience (including what Master D told you). so, given that neither of you put up data to support your claims, life shows that roissy is right and you are wrong. confidence may add something to a woman’s appeal at the margins – maybe – but nothing like what it will do to a man in woman’s eyes. your individual history/experience may differ, but we view attraction from the male point of view.

    you are a fast learner and a spirited debater. but you’re not gonna change too many minds here on the nature of attraction. fair warning. also, i’ll continue to object to cheap shots to your kid – folks, that’s just unnecessary.

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  112. on May 26, 2009 at 9:27 pm anony

    @Lady Rain,
    to Roissy’s (partial) credit, he does occasionally bring forth pop-culture remix of bad science.

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  113. on May 26, 2009 at 9:29 pm Lady Rain

    Whiskey,

    I very much liked that most of yours because if Roissy would use some mentalism/profiling that comes from actual facts and knowledge I would have a higher degree of respects for the game as it is. You are dead on when referring to “observing” rather than trotting around trying to communicate with everyone.

    For me, most every interaction with a human male or female imparts me ignoring the actual words and speech of a person when they are talking and only watching their movements and tone, for example. This alone is a powerful way to game someone without their knowledge completely. Meaning invisibly. That’s a huge advantage! I can weed out 50% of men in a room with just that one way based on variables and basic psych.

    Many people here mistakenly think I hate Roissy and think his game is bullshit. I think he’s leaving out the really important roots to all of this that both men AND women utilize equally and also can use WITHOUT having to hurt someone else. Let’s face it, no matter how bitter you are, deep down you know if you are taking it too far and hurting people just because you got dicked.

    I just want to see Roissy take a more scientific or psychological approach and pay more attention to the things criminal profilers look for. It’s inescapable and it’s also a science that is accurate enough for something like dating, that’s for sure! Not to mention it works on both men and women because it goes beneath the actual interaction and down to the sensory basics of human reaction.

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  114. on May 26, 2009 at 9:30 pm z

    Lady Rain,

    The whole point of “Game” is this:

    Out there at the bars, amongst the 20-28 or so age group, a phenomena was witnessed from the years of roughly 1980-1998 or so. Here is that phenomenon:

    The top 20% of men (especially the top 10%) could string along 2 or 3 women apiece.

    Lady Rain, do the math. If two or three women are settling for one or two dates and booty calls with one man in the top ten percent, what do you have?

    Are you doing the math Lady Rain?

    Answer: The top 10% of men are tying up the top 25-30% of women. The second 10% of men are tying up another tier of women about twice their size.
    WHAT YOU END UP WITH IS 20% OF MEN FUCKING THE TOP 40-50% of ALL WOMEN WHO ARE HAVING SEX.

    Guys who are physically 4’s, 5’s, 6’s, and even 7’s were going out mystified that when they introduced themselves to women and offered to buy them a drink or asked them to dance that they’d get the cold shoulder from women who were 4’s, 5’s, 6’s, and 7’s just like they were, or even women who were not quite as attractive as themselves. Men were mystified. “I never had this problem in high school”, “What is it with these gals, they all act like they are twentyfive percent cuter than what they are?”, “Do they think slutting it up with dress and make-up makes them hotter?”

    The thing is, is that psychologically women who get to sleep with men who are 9’s and 10’s begin to think they are “hot” as these men are. Since the men who are 9’s and 10’s are perfectly willing to take home a different girl every night they go out these gals get a surfeit of sex from men who are out of their league enough that they begin to think those are the kinds of men that they really -deserve- to be with. Of course the men who are 9’s and 10’s are not going to settle for chicks who are 5’s through 7’s for marriage and family, but these women have gotten sex from “the hot guys” for years. When they are 27 years of age or so, and begin looking for a husband, they finally are willing to “settle” for a guy who is just as attractive as they themselves are (6=6), but these guys are pretty pissed by then at how barren their love lives have been, and resent being used as they obviously have been.

    Game was invented by frustrated men who couldn’t figure out why they were having no luck whatsoever with women. Erik Von Markovick actually has a nice symetrical face, and is tall (although he is a thin-not skinny-guy). What they figured out is that women want to be with men that they THINK other women want as much as anything else, and that you can bullshit women by negging and qualifiying them and putting on a confident act into thinking that you are “the shit”. Gaining this knowledge made men a little MORE resentful of women becuase its so profoundly shallow on women’s part. A woman will think a man a “dud” if he is not the life of the party, even if he is educated, well-rounded, well-read, in shape, financially stable and a pillar of his community. A man sees how ridiculously shallow this is, and resents the fuck out of it. It makes him kinda despise females period. Do you really think a guy would pass on Lady Rain because she’d come off as a “dud” in a discussion with other guys about the merits of a Mercedes transmission vs. a Volvo one? No, but women do.

    Hence, men begin to learn game in droves, but it makes them respect women much less, although they enjoy their now opened pussies more. Women resent being attracted to a mood scam that gives confidence to men so effectively, but they can’t put the genie back in the bottle and neg their confidence back down, because game cracked the code. Men with game wont be getting oneitis or playing beta chump for females, rather they will laugh in their faces and walk away and just fuck other females. Its a levelling of the playing field. Women resent it, but there really is nothing they can do about it. Just as men are attracted to big fake tits, women are attracted to game.

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  115. on May 26, 2009 at 9:31 pm Default User

    irritated aoefe

    There is another use for these discussions. It is far the unseen audience of those that mught read but not comment.

    It allows those people that may never have heard of game or seen a description of the thinking behind it get some insight into it.

    I agree it can go on a bit though.

    Maybe I should go back to posting YouTube videos.

    Maybe we should Leave Her Alone.

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  116. on May 26, 2009 at 9:32 pm Virgin@40

    Aoefe,

    No girl, you did not miss my point.
    To such an extent that you say that “your type” (yes, I’m meaning this in a good way) exist.
    Funny that you say you don’t frequent bars. Where can I find “your type”? In Casinos? Churches?

    Hm… But really, you’re right about something, I do have to hit other venues. Or venues at all 🙂

    Just wondering, do you recommend any places?

    P.S. – If I don’t answer you, sorry, but where I am it’s 3:00 and it’s deep night. I’m getting sleepy and will have to wake up early in the morning.

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  117. on May 26, 2009 at 9:33 pm Chuck

    anyone else see the parallels between overqualifying yourself to a woman and being overqualified for a prospective job?

    if you’re overqualified for a particular job, you may not be hired. the employer is afraid you’ll be too bored or that your resources will be underutilized.

    same goes here…the woman is afraid you’ll get bored with her, that she’s not in your league. she’s afraid that your resources (read, cock) is underutilized, and she will not “hire” you.

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  118. on May 26, 2009 at 9:34 pm Gunslingergregi

    Virgin appreciate the backup thought. Read my response above bro. When you are a man you are a man. Cowards die many times before their deaths the valient die but once.

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  119. on May 26, 2009 at 9:40 pm aoefe

    Inner Bitch time

    Ok, harder than I thought, but here goes… she is a total ASSHAT people!! Thanks Maurice for your kind words to me but I have to totally disagree with you saying she’s a fast learner, are you kidding me? Roissy hit it dead on the nail with she thinks she’s smarter than she is. I’m NOT kidding you when I say she’s delusional. I am frustrated beyond by her inability to grasp what any of you are saying, she’s even unable to take subtle insults. When you come out and hit her over the head with insults she just shrugs – the ‘lady’ has balls I guess I’ll give her that much.

    As much as she won’t be able to get anyone to agree with her you will be UNABLE to get her to see any reason.

    Give
    it
    up.

    ok, bitch gone so I’ll add – pretty please?

    Back to the post Roissy gave great advice you CAN overdo it.

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  120. on May 26, 2009 at 9:44 pm Default User

    Virgin@40 to aoefe

    Funny that you say you don’t frequent bars. Where can I find “your type”? In Casinos? Church

    On airplanes I think or maybe it was the baggage claims area.

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  121. on May 26, 2009 at 9:47 pm Virgin@40

    I read it Guns, I sure did…

    But you know, Turuth Hurts made me laugh/smile. I just wanted to give him credit for that.
    If you read what you wrote, you will note in my tone that I am actually against what he “tryed” to do to you. Nonetheless, I foud it funny.

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  122. on May 26, 2009 at 9:47 pm maurice

    @aeofe – well, i thought her exchange with Master D showed the ability to listen and learn. For pretty much the first time.

    she is stubborn and has the right to disagree with the predominant view here – the reason we all show up – and in the back-and-forth some good ideas were articulated. so i agree with default that it’s a good diversion. more light than heat, for now. who knows – maybe eventually we’ll get her in the bridle…?!? if not, she’ll be like a female DA – a living rebuke to this community that shows up every day anyway…

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  123. on May 26, 2009 at 9:47 pm five

    If your game is so tight, why not chase a hotter woman?

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  124. on May 26, 2009 at 9:48 pm wow

    Re: lady rain:

    How much does a 28 year old really know?…no offence to the youngins.

    She doesn’t even have the “thousand cock stare”….yet.

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  125. on May 26, 2009 at 9:49 pm Gunslingergregi

    Yea I saw that. No prob.

    Doug quite acting like a little bitch and read for comprehension

    guns1 rain 0

    She posted her email for everyone why she said it twice as an excuse.

    I had already cut her off list because I cannot have a woman with a dirty mouth as ltr.

    “”””””””””Gunslingergregi
    I was practicing on you with maybe potential but then like I said before you need to do some more work on things like swearing to be able to pass muster.””””””””””

    She didn’t respond to this. So yea I count that one.

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  126. on May 26, 2009 at 9:50 pm Lady Rain

    aoefe–

    What clearly pisses you off is that no matter how many times someone insults or degrades me it doesn’t change my view on the situation or myself. It doesn’t make me angry when someone doesn’t agree with me, so why would I validate those subtle comments or even acknowledge the blatant insults? It’s a normal emotional reaction to someone making sense when you didn’t want them to.

    I understand what many of the posters here are saying and often agree with them openly on some points so perhaps you should read up a bit before you accuse me of something that isn’t true.

    You can say whatever you’d like about my intellect but I can say a lot of my college education was in Law, Criminal Profiling, Psychology, etc. so it’s not like I’m talking out of my ass when I offer opinions on human behavior and also psychology. They both apply to the “game” whether you fail to see it or not.

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  127. on May 26, 2009 at 9:50 pm doug1

    chic noir–

    Roissy: Does she put herself down? She’s fishing for compliments because she wants reassurance that you really think she is cute

    Chic: I don’t get why women do this. I’ve always reasoned that a man must find me attractive if he wants approaches me in public.

    I have gotten this A LOT. It’s not at all about the same things. Different girls have different things. Sometimes a girl will do it about a couple of things. It’s usually not about looks, or not much. Little tiny reassurances / feedback soliciting stuff aside. There is a tendency for it to be about education and/or intelligence.

    It’s usually not sustained. When it is, it’s a major turn off. Instead it’s usually mostly probing, and needing reassuring. When the girl can be reassured, it’s fine with me. Maybe I sort of like it.

    I expect it at some fairly early point.

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  128. on May 26, 2009 at 9:50 pm Chuck

    z:

    nice run-down. i have to disagree on a couple of things though.

    first, you say that this happened in the period 1980-1998, but this has been happening since the beginning of time. i think that it has become more noticable because of a larger shift towards the bar scene as a place to pick up chicks. when men met women through traditional means, school, work, neighborhood, church etc. the couple had much more information about each other. they knew each other’s background, families, and friends.

    then the shift to the bar scene for people to hook up. it became a meat market in which neither side knew anything about the other. once they did get to know each other, they only knew the party version of that person. this scenario naturally benefits the alpha male even more than in traditional settings. when a woman doesn’t know anything about the 100 possible men on a given night out, she’ll choose based upon things that women have always preferred: social dominance, looks, etc.

    and i also have to disagree that 6 and 7 women started thinking they were as hot as the 9 and 10 men they were bagging. sure it elevated their confidence and what-not, but they were merely taking advantage of what they could get. unless a 6 is retarded, she knows she’s not as hot as a given 9, but that won’t prevent her from getting sex from 9 and 10 males, at least enough to prevent her from banging only 6 and 7 males.

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  129. on May 26, 2009 at 9:51 pm joel

    Regarding Game, I think often about Tom Landry. (Ladies: He was the legendary coach of the Dallas Cowboys.) When asked what it took to be a great coach, he replied:

    “It takes a special man to be a successful football coach. He has to be smart enough to understand the game, and dumb enough to think it’s important.”

    Of course, not all football coaches were so sanguine about the game. I think it was Vince Lombardi (Ladies: He was the legendary coach of the Greenbay Packers.) who said:

    “Show be a good loser, and I’ll show you a loser.”

    Pay your money and take your choice. Life is short. Have fun and play nice, but, play to win. Knowing Game is essential if you want to win.

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  130. on May 26, 2009 at 9:51 pm doug1

    aeofe–

    Roissy hit it dead on the nail with she thinks she’s smarter than she is. I’m NOT kidding you when I say she’s delusional. I am frustrated beyond by her inability to grasp what any of you are saying, she’s even unable to take subtle insults.

    I agree completely.

    She seemed smarter on the prior thread. Not brilliant, and a lot of things wrong with her life plan, but not this as you say, inability/unwillingness to grasp what people are sensibly (for the most part) saying to her.

    Actually a whole lot of us have said pretty close to the same thing, with no impact, and no effective counter argument, just argument.

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  131. on May 26, 2009 at 9:52 pm aoefe

    @default user

    oooops hit inner bitch button before I read your post regarding people who don’t comment being interested. Point taken doesn’t mean I have to enjoy reading her though. /sighs….

    Airports, coffee line-ups, concerts, the melon isle at grocery stores… Ya you just hold two melons up and ask the closest, attractive male to see if they’re ripe enough. Works every time. (wink) Oh gawd I just gave up one of women’s trade secrets…crap.

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  132. on May 26, 2009 at 9:58 pm doug1

    aoefe–

    oooops hit inner bitch button

    Let it rip. It’s attractive in you.

    I like the way you do inner bitch aeofe. You’re very feminine. It’s a girly kind of intelligent bitch. Kinda turns me on.

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  133. on May 26, 2009 at 9:58 pm Lady Rain

    gunslinger–

    I’m not even being sarcastic when I say I don’t understand what the hell that post was about or even if it was directed at me because it didn’t make sense.

    I did not give you my email address at any point and time. If it’s on my page somewhere and you managed to find it that is hardly me “giving you my addy” so stop lying and trying to make it sound like you had game, because you did not.

    You said you wanted to email me. I said “yeah sure whatever” and that was it. I never offered you the address and never spoke to you outside of these posts so how did you run this game on me? being polite strangers is not my idea of “successful game”.

    I love my curse-word verbosity but I turn it on and off as necessary bc remember I was raised by people who thought etiquette and standing up straight was number one in life. So I can change like a chameleon into perfect “sans-verbal-offense” at the drop of a hat… example: my parents house. alcohol is also of the devil there so I only use my nasty language playfully and intermittently

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  134. on May 26, 2009 at 9:59 pm Chuck

    z:

    your post got me thinking some more…you packed a lot of insight in that comment.

    as for myself, i’m not so much mad that women may one day “settle” with me despite not paying me much attention in my early 20s. my frustration comes from the fact that i have lived a false reality for 20+ years. now that i know the inner workings of this system, what makes women tick, the wasted money, emotions, and lonely nights are given added emphasis. the frustration comes from regret at not knowing sooner. i don’t blame the women in my past; i blame myself and the men that should have clued me in on this thing.

    the analogy of finding out that santa claus isn’t real keeps entering my mind.

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  135. on May 26, 2009 at 9:59 pm Virgin@40

    Aoefe,
    You’re wrong about Lady Rain. She’s relatively intelligent. Her problem is not her brain but her ideology.

    Don’t matter how intelligent you may be, once you put (any) ideology above reality, you will cease to care about the truth and you will also see only what you want and ignore the rest.

    But, do you know what you’re right about? She’s kind of a troll. If you read what she wrote and has been discussing, you’ll see she’s redundant and that she did not said nothing productive.

    @ Default User,
    “On airplanes I think or maybe it was the baggage claims area.”

    Too bad. I don’t like to fly. Painfull fantasies as well.

    LikeLike


  136. on May 26, 2009 at 10:01 pm chic noir

    anony
    @Lady Rain,
    -you’ve stated yourself that you have no women friends, so how can you now quote any?
    -what data have you brought to the table?

    no no no anony, we women must stick togeather.

    j/k

    LikeLike


  137. on May 26, 2009 at 10:01 pm Default User

    Virgin@40, Roaring aoefe

    Airports, coffee line-ups, concerts, the melon isle at grocery stores… Ya you just hold two melons up and ask the closest, attractive male to see if they’re ripe enough. Works every time. (wink) Oh gawd I just gave up one of women’s trade secrets…crap.

    It was Virgin@40 who asked where to find you (or “your type”).

    So Virgin@40 there is your answer in case you missed it.

    Regarding your melons game. I tried something similar with a large cucumber. I was thrown out of the store.

    LikeLike


  138. on May 26, 2009 at 10:07 pm Arpagus

    Lady Rain:

    My only responsibility (if you want to put it in a fun legal way) is create a shadow of doubt as to the actual evidence of his claims!

    Here is some evidence:

    Sex differences in perceived controllability of mate value: An evolutionary perspective.
    Ben Hamida, Souhir; Mineka, Susan; Bailey, J. Michael
    Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. Vol 75(4), Oct 1998, 953-966.

    Men and women value different characteristics in potential partners. It was hypothesized that women feel they have less control over traits relevant to their desirability than men feel they have over traits related to male desirability. In Study 1, undergraduates (N = 150) completed questionnaires measuring (a) the importance they attributed to 64 characteristics when choosing a mate and (b) their perceived control over these traits. Men selected partners on the basis of traits that are relatively uncontrollable (e.g., youth, attractiveness), whereas women selected partners on the basis of traits that are more controllable (e.g., status, industriousness; d = 1.75). In Study 2, these findings were replicated in an older, representative community sample (N = 301; d = 1.03). Greater uncontrollability of traits relevant to female mate value may place women at elevated risk for negative affect, depression, low self-esteem, and body dissatisfaction. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2008 APA, all rights reserved)

    LikeLike


  139. on May 26, 2009 at 10:11 pm Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””””””””””””””on May 26, 2009 at 9:50 pm Chuck
    z:

    nice run-down. i have to disagree on a couple of things though.

    first, you say that this happened in the period 1980-1998, but this has been happening since the beginning of time. i think that it has become more noticable because of a larger shift towards the bar scene as a place to pick up chicks. when men met women through traditional means, school, work, neighborhood, church etc. the couple had much more information about each other. they knew each other’s background, families, and friends. “””””””””””””””

    This is pretty good stuff here. For instance when other men see you as a stand up guy and would feel like you can come into their house and control yourself. Then you pretty much have it made for chicks when you are making contacts from all over the world and you get to a point where you can travel. There female friends are now your opportunities when you go and visit. You will have automatic social proff. Unless they tell you one is off limits this would be where the respect thing would come into play. They need to be able to trust you to invite you into their lives. So you get to have access to preselected quality woman.

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  140. on May 26, 2009 at 10:11 pm The Ranger

    z…

    I believe you have succinctly written the game manifesto. Well done.

    Oh, and Lady Rain, stick around; you remind me of my mom.

    LikeLike


  141. on May 26, 2009 at 10:12 pm Lady Rains Lil Bastard

    mommie – where’s my daddy. why do i have a trailer park name ending in ‘den’ like britney’s lil bastard. are you taking your meds.

    LikeLike


  142. on May 26, 2009 at 10:13 pm aoefe

    @gun

    Lady Rain said ” I love my curse-word verbosity but I turn it on and off as necessary bc remember I was raised by people who thought etiquette and standing up straight was number one in life. So I can change like a chameleon into perfect “sans-verbal-offense” at the drop of a hat…”

    I think your game may be working man. She’s now promising to turn off swearing a think you claim not to like.

    Also LR – not sure your intellect is showing when you say “curse-word verbosity”. Verbosity is wordiness, do you mean you talk soley in curse words? Or maybe you do in which case I’m sorry.

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  143. on May 26, 2009 at 10:17 pm doug1

    chic noir–

    no no no anony, we women must stick togeather.

    j/k

    No chic, using various PUA arts you should be singled out, alone, drawn off, and through PUA progression and seduction lead to the HORRORS of:

    complete sexual surrender, incredible pleasure and a shattering vaginal orgasm.

    So much for not sticking together with the women. The horrors.

    j/k

    LikeLike


  144. on May 26, 2009 at 10:20 pm chic noir

    @doug -I’ve never seen any females gang up on each other the way they have on lady rain. we usually agree to disagree

    LikeLike


  145. on May 26, 2009 at 10:20 pm collegeboy

    Arpagus:

    well done on that evidence.

    LikeLike


  146. on May 26, 2009 at 10:21 pm aoefe

    think should be thing….duh.

    @doug

    I knew it was virgin@ but you’d mentioned the airport thing so I added it. Plus it gave me another excuse to talk to you. And for those of you will think I’m sneaking on Bhetti – no way Jose! I’ve got Plane Dude.

    @virgin
    Too bad you don’t fly. There see equal opportunity flirting.

    LikeLike


  147. on May 26, 2009 at 10:21 pm whiskey

    LR —

    If you read through Roissy’s archives, he and the other PUA bloggers do a lot of discussion about how to honestly winnow out women who are giving “IOD” (Indicators of Disinterest) and moving on to more amenable women who find you attractive. Strauss and others take that into even greater detail.

    What PUA do, boiled down to the essentials, is first assess which women they find attractive. Then, assess which of them find them attractive or at least are not giving IOD. Then, interact with them (chat them up) while carefully monitoring how they come off and quickly adjusting. This can be either escalation or quick exit, based on how the woman reacts. That’s a 50,000 feet view, but the essentials.

    What women find objectionable about Game is that it allows men who are not “naturals” to compete with those who are, or became through status (Rock Stars, celebrities, etc.) It’s a skill, it’s coachable. I have reservations on how many men will pick it up and achieve actual mastery, but it’s principles are relatively simple and easy to grasp.

    LikeLike


  148. on May 26, 2009 at 10:21 pm doug1

    chic–

    just playin’ with ya darlin

    LikeLike


  149. on May 26, 2009 at 10:24 pm Arpagus

    More evidence, Lady Rain, that your self-esteem is useless and doomed:

    The demographics of mate value and self-esteem

    Gary L. BraseCorresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author and Emma C. Guy

    Personality and Individual Differences
    Volume 36, Issue 2, January 2004, Pages 471-484

    This article concludes:

    “The present findings provide empirical support for the speculations by [Ben-Hamida et al., 1998] that the greater uncontrollability of traits key to female mate value create a higher risk of self-esteem damage. Furthermore, this pattern became clearer, as predicted, with increasing age.”

    Your turn.

    LikeLike


  150. on May 26, 2009 at 10:25 pm aoefe

    @chic

    Ya, still a newbie here and you’re right about sticking together. I shall be a silent on the L.R. thing from this point forward. We’re both new here (LR, moi) so we’re feeling our way a bit.

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  151. on May 26, 2009 at 10:35 pm aoefe = ass kisser.

    trying to run down the current, designated blog bitch(lady rain) to win kudos from the attacking men.

    lame.

    Show more self-respect.

    Where is SaraI and Biting Beaver when you need them?

    LikeLike


  152. on May 26, 2009 at 10:39 pm Gunslingergregi

    “”””””””aoefe
    @gun

    Lady Rain said ” I love my curse-word verbosity but I turn it on and off as necessary bc remember I was raised by people who thought etiquette and standing up straight was number one in life. So I can change like a chameleon into perfect “sans-verbal-offense” at the drop of a hat…”

    I think your game may be working man. She’s now promising to turn off swearing a think you claim not to like.

    Also LR – not sure your intellect is showing when you say “curse-word verbosity”. Verbosity is wordiness, do you mean you talk soley in curse words? Or maybe you do in which case I’m sorry.”””””””””””””””

    Yea my game worked on the last thread. The game would have been already over from my perception of the situation.

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  153. on May 26, 2009 at 10:40 pm chic noir

    *eagerly awaiting the return of biting beaver*

    *looks over to default*

    darling would you like some of this popcorn?

    *sees whiskey and feminx sitting in the back row*
    rolls eyes

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  154. on May 26, 2009 at 10:42 pm Gunslingergregi

    But yea ok I will give rain another chance.

    “Please no gameplaying.”

    You my woman now right.

    LikeLike


  155. on May 26, 2009 at 10:45 pm feministx.blogspot.com

    LR is cool and smart. These guys are losers that think their opinion is every man’s opinion.

    If you have high self esteem, you will attract a certain kind of man.
    If you have low self esteem, you will attract a different kind of man.
    if you have average self esteem, you will attract yet another kind of man.

    In a man, high self esteem is by far the way to go. But women with low self esteem might actually be able to pull better partners if they try.

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  156. on May 26, 2009 at 10:46 pm Default User

    aoefe = ass kisser.

    Where is SaraI and Biting Beaver when you need them?

    You mean thay are not the same?
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Actually current theory is :

    Bitey = Darth Maul [= roissy?]

    Lady Rain = Sara I
    [I mean, have we seen Sara I since Lady appeared?]

    aoefe = David Alexander
    [Has he been around recently]

    Default User = Shouting Thomas

    LikeLike


  157. on May 26, 2009 at 10:47 pm turtle

    LR,
    Were you the inspiration for “A Lap Dance is So Much Better When the Stripper is Crying”?

    LikeLike


  158. on May 26, 2009 at 10:49 pm doug1

    aoefe–

    I shall be a silent on the L.R. thing from this point forward.

    Oh you will, will you?

    I’ve lured you out of a vow of silence on this blog before.

    Beware!!

    (Don’t be silent about anything when you’re reading here, and have something to say. It’s safe for you. Honest. Or safeish. You’ll get an arrow or two but no wolf pack. Someone will see to that.)

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  159. on May 26, 2009 at 10:50 pm doug1

    aoefe = ass kisser.

    Where is SaraI and Biting Beaver when you need them?

    Who exactly is it on here who wants either of them in preference to aoefe?

    (I’ll admit that Biting Beaver had entertainment value as a short term phenomenon, but beyond that?)

    Girls that want to follow men they’re attracted to, and don’t fight that too much, are hot, hot, hot. Fool.

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  160. on May 26, 2009 at 10:50 pm collegeboy

    Biting Beaver is Sara I.

    I dont know why my fling would do such a thing.

    My apologies people.

    LikeLike


  161. on May 26, 2009 at 10:50 pm chic noir

    aoefe = ass kisser.
    trying to run down the current, designated blog bitch(lady rain) to win kudos from the attacking men.

    lame.

    Show more self-respect.

    *looks over shoulder to aoefe aa*

    let me have a talk with her.

    *takes aoefe to talk in a quite spot*

    My sweet, what you don’t realize is the men in these parts are ruff. they may not flame you today but they will get you.
    *leans in for dramatic effect*
    It’s only a matter of time.
    *stands tall*
    The one thing you will learn from this blog is men(all races& ethnicities) see things very differently than we women do. They also behave very differently than we do.

    *gives aoefe a big hug*

    Now be brave my daughter. Remember, you may disagree with another woman here but be careful of those you step on to get to the top because they(she) will be the same person you need to catch you on your way back down.

    *releases aoefe and glides away*

    LikeLike


  162. on May 26, 2009 at 10:51 pm Default User

    chic noir

    *looks over to default*

    Default looks back, with the hint of a mischievous grin and a faint sparkle in his eyes.

    LikeLike


  163. on May 26, 2009 at 10:59 pm chic noir

    Default User = Shouting Thomas
    default user- that would be funny because i got a lil love in my heart for ST.

    LikeLike


  164. on May 26, 2009 at 11:01 pm collegeboy

    *..chicnoir..glides away…only to kneel down before collegeboy..with an open mouth heart.*

    LikeLike


  165. on May 26, 2009 at 11:03 pm Default User

    chic noir

    that would be funny because i got a lil love in my heart for ST.

    You like the solid, but slightly gruff ones (e.g., Whiskey) don’t you?

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  166. on May 26, 2009 at 11:04 pm Chuck

    shouting thomas is a douche bag.

    why has this board devolved into inordinate attention paid to a revolving group of female posters? no offense b/c many of you ladies add insight to the board, but more than half of the comments on the past two of roissy’s posts have been a discussion with LR.

    it’s getting boring.

    LikeLike


  167. on May 26, 2009 at 11:05 pm Default User

    collegeboy

    If Sara I is your fling, we want field reports.

    LikeLike


  168. on May 26, 2009 at 11:05 pm maurice

    @chic – you have whole screenplays going on now! a long way from *dead faint*.

    LikeLike


  169. on May 26, 2009 at 11:06 pm doug1

    chic noir

    default user- that would be funny because i got a lil love in my heart for ST.

    Doesn’t surprise me at all — ince you declared you attraction in some detail to Whiskey. They have a lot in common, just ST being what being one or two decades older. Same general sorts of values.

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  170. on May 26, 2009 at 11:12 pm collegeboy

    Default user:

    No condom.

    That is all.

    heh just joking, but sara would make a dam nice FR and if the sex gods favor me a SNL.

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  171. on May 26, 2009 at 11:13 pm chic noir

    Default looks back, with the hint of a mischievous grin and a faint sparkle in his eyes.

    *Gives default the big eyed eternal ingenue look perfected by Audrey Tautoo in Amelie *

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  172. on May 26, 2009 at 11:15 pm chic noir

    doug Doesn’t surprise me at all — ince you declared you attraction in some detail to Whiskey. They have a lot in common, just ST being what being one or two decades older. Same general sorts of values.

    Doug, that’s very true. Nothing like a standup man who can fix things and loves deeply.

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  173. on May 26, 2009 at 11:16 pm Default User

    *dead faint*

    LikeLike


  174. on May 26, 2009 at 11:16 pm maurice

    careful chic – default clearly has e-eyes for aeofe …

    LikeLike


  175. on May 26, 2009 at 11:18 pm Default User

    collegeboy

    No condom.

    That is all.

    😀

    LikeLike


  176. on May 26, 2009 at 11:23 pm Virginia Gentleman

    I’ve got nothing to add WRT the Lady Rain thing, but let’s throw this one out to the masses:

    A long time ago, in a decade far, far away (i.e. the mid-1990s), a boy had his eye on a cute girl a grade or two behind him in school. Naturally, the boy asked the girl to the fall homecoming dance and the spring prom. He was an upperclassman and it was prestigious to be asked, so the girl agreed.

    Not long after, the relationship, if there was one, collapsed. To use a cliche, it crashed and burned. The guy goes about his life and sees this girl maybe once or twice over the next thirteen years. He’s essentially moved on, but occasionally wonders what could have been done differently.

    Recently, the boy runs into this girl. The two speak very briefly in pleasant tones, and the boy learns that the girl is now in a graduate research program far away from their mutual hometown. He compliments her on the research program but responds to the location by saying something on the order of, “Oh, that must be awful”, to which the girl responds something like, “It’s OK”. She learns that he holds a J.D. and will be a practicing attorney in the near future. Nothing else really transpires since the two were with other people headed in opposite directions.

    The girl has held her looks, does not appear to be married after some investigation, and still caught the boy’s eye. If her mother’s genetics are any indication, there’s another twenty years or more of attractiveness left in the girl. The boy is relatively new to the Roissysphere and is interested in seeing if long-range game can be applied to this situation and if so, how this should be done, with specifics.

    Discuss.

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  177. on May 26, 2009 at 11:27 pm aoefe

    @chic

    Left for an icecream – seriously DQ makes the best. Thanks for the advice , for the record I did take quite a bit of heat from Welmer yesterday. Garbage, pendantic, overly superior and we can now add ass kisser. I can take the heat, but I agree in theory with what you say regarding careful who you step on.

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  178. on May 26, 2009 at 11:30 pm chic noir

    *..chicnoir..glides away…only to kneel down before collegeboy..with an open heart.*

    *smiles at schoolboy while pulling the biting beaver dager from behind her back*

    maurice
    @chic – you have whole screenplays going on now! a long way from *dead faint*.

    Yes sir I’ve grown harden.

    @chuck- *grabs chuck by the hand*
    (Don’t worry default it’s purley plantonic)
    *Looks deeply into chucks eyes*

    My son, let me tell you a few things about life

    poon is king.

    In other words, whenever a new woman steps on the scene here, she commands male attention.
    Think back to the entrance of bhetti, omw ,lil girl, db etc… Even those who are old timers but don’t hang around much generate male interest when they return think of kassy k, hope, dizzy, irina etc..

    It’s just like a ten moves onto your block. There are plenty of pretty girls around but the new woman represents new meat or territory to conquer so you and your friends sit around talking about her for a bit.
    Same thing in the virtual world.

    *sees the light enter chucks eyes*

    you can’t change human nature. That’s why women get into clubs for free!!! clubowners know men will follow poon.

    Okay my son, I see you understand.

    *glides away*

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  179. on May 26, 2009 at 11:35 pm Alex

    I think there is a strong potential for misinterpretation of some of the body-language signals you mention.

    When I am talking to an attractive man and I start to get an inkling that he is over-selling himself, my body language does become defensive; I avoid eye contact and I probably do cross my arms over my body. I am too polite to ever say “Dude, you’re not fooling me”, so instead I retreat and look for an escape.

    Any man who fancied themselves a true artist but elicited this response from me would assume that I regarded myself as unworthy of his alpha manliness.

    From experience, I can say I have never felt that way; but I have felt acutely embarrassed for a man who had an over-inflated sense of his own value.

    LikeLike


  180. on May 26, 2009 at 11:42 pm Tood

    Totally off-topic, but I’ll ask :

    People say that ‘average lawyers in private practice’ only earn $100,000 a year.

    But I think that one who is somewhat more successful that average makes much more.

    I know someone who is a lawyer. He is one of two partners in his firm. He has 1 associate, and 2 paralegals.

    His firm’s billing rate is $300/hour. All attorneys are busy.

    I figure he gets 6000 billable hours a year : $1,800,000 revenue.

    Costs (salaries + benefits) :
    Associate : $200,000
    Paralegals : $100,000 X 2 = $200,000
    Office Rent?Misc : $30,000 a year

    Net Profits : $1,370,000, divided among 2 partners.

    So he takes in $685,000 a year.
    _______________________________________

    If the average lawyer charges $200/hour, then they must only get 500 hours a year to earn $100,000. If their office costs are $20,000 a year, then they only need 600 hours a year to earn $100K.

    So how can the average income of attorneys in private practice be so low?

    LikeLike


  181. on May 26, 2009 at 11:42 pm chic noir

    Default User
    *dead faint*
    careful careful my sweet, I tend to have that power ofver men but you are so sweet and tender(like schoolboy once was) that I refuse to mistreat you, your special.

    maurice
    careful chic – default clearly has e-eyes for aeofe
    😯
    —————————————————————————
    on topic When you number close, say “I’m looking forward to seeing you.”
    make sure you stare deeply into her eyes as you do this. T posted a video of Robbie Williams giving a reporter the perfect male alpha stare and the effect he was having on her within 20 sec. she became flushed, forgot her questions, made jerky movements, and began to stammer. you look should be one that makes her feel like she is the only woman in the universe for those 15 seconds.

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  182. on May 26, 2009 at 11:44 pm Rum

    Virginia Guy

    First off, why? This is the first and most basic question. To answer it you must know yourself – what you really want/need.
    Long range game is a very specialized project – starting with the fact that there are only a few rarified situations where it makes any sense to seriously pursue one, imho..

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  183. on May 26, 2009 at 11:46 pm Default User

    chic noir

    …you look should be one that makes her feel like she is the only woman in the universe for those 15 seconds…

    Last post of night.

    Believe it or not, I do. And it does work.
    [more “gentle” than the Robbie Williams stare perhaps]

    LikeLike


  184. on May 26, 2009 at 11:47 pm Niko

    I’ve got 100 bucks for anyone willing to shove a sock down chic noirs throat…….or at least dislocate a finger……..

    LikeLike


  185. on May 26, 2009 at 11:48 pm Dave from Hawaii

    poon is king.

    Correction: Young, fertile, physically attractive, non-diseased, non-smelly and non-abused/overused poon is king.

    LikeLike


  186. on May 26, 2009 at 11:50 pm Default User

    chic noir

    Really the last post

    Chic called me “sweet.”

    I have just been LJBFed. Sweet is what “nice guys” get called. That is why the nicely go home alone. So all told that equals epic fail.

    I will sleep on that. 😦

    LikeLike


  187. on May 26, 2009 at 11:53 pm collegeboy

    * smacks chicnoir with a louis vuitton glove, chic then becomes submissive, she prepares for what she knows best..and finally collegeboy plays this *

    LikeLike


  188. on May 26, 2009 at 11:57 pm Alex

    Tood

    Unless you’re a partner, your hourly-rate doesn’t go into your pocket.

    I’m a 28-year-old lawyer (not in the US); I am charged out at a rate of $325 per hour and I do around 6 “billable” hours a day. Based on a 48-week year, I bill something like $468,000 per year.

    My salary is around a quarter of that. The firm takes the remainder. The net difference is split between the partners.

    LikeLike


  189. on May 27, 2009 at 12:00 am Max from Australia

    If my kids are ever lost or in trouble the first rule is

    “go to McDonalds and call the cops”

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  190. on May 27, 2009 at 12:15 am Chuck

    chic:

    don’t stare too hard, you’re aware of my power with the sistas 🙂

    and yes, poon is king…in the real world. this is a blog. there’s little chance for fucking. guys resent the power that women have over them, yet as soon as one shows up on the scene at roissy’s all discussion is geared towards her.

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  191. on May 27, 2009 at 12:17 am Max from Australia

    Virginia Guy

    your inner game is deeply flawed.. having both a turn-back-the-clock relationship and a long distance relationship (EVEN IF its successful) will only make you more insecure at the core.

    throw away number and go sarging.

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  192. on May 27, 2009 at 12:28 am Tood

    Alex – Yes, but I am talking about private practice.

    In the example I gave, there is a salaries associate, but each of the 2 partners still nets almost $700K a year.

    You would be analogous to the Associate.

    So why would the average for attorney’s in private practice (which presumably means those not employed by a firm, but rather tied to the billable hours) be only $100,000?

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  193. on May 27, 2009 at 12:29 am Days of Broken Arrows

    “In other words, whenever a new woman steps on the scene here, she commands male attention.”

    Not from everyone. I tried to get the discussions back to Roissy’s originals ideas here and in the last post to no avail.

    However, I will say that Clio does command my attention whenever she appears. I hope Tupac doesn’t become overwhelmed with jealousy because of that statement.

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  194. on May 27, 2009 at 12:29 am Tood

    This is am important post from Roissy. Many guys who learn Game tend to overshoot a lot.

    Just like novices to Game think they can practice with 4s and 5s and then aim for 8s and 9s after they get good. That is a mistake. A 4 or 5 is not necessarily easier to Game, and the learnings of one don’t necessarily help in Gaming 8s and 9s (where negs and qualifying is necessary).

    LikeLike


  195. on May 27, 2009 at 12:34 am whiskey

    FeministX —

    Please. Men first check out a woman’s figure/body/face. That’s the main point of attraction. Then personality, intelligence, degree of attachment to another guy, and so on.

    Self esteem matters not at all. It matters to WOMEN.

    Men ain’t women. They don’t care about stuff women do, and care about stuff women don’t. A gal working at McDonalds, if she’s hot, is just as attractive as a lawyer. Maybe more so (if relative status equals a better chance with the McDonald’s cashier than the hot shot lawyer).

    This is why it’s useless to talk about attraction with women. They are totally unable to get out of their own mental models of what works, and usually won’t even articulate what really goes on with them. Sigh.

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  196. on May 27, 2009 at 12:37 am Alex

    Tood – “private practice” means in a firm. Someone who works for themself is a “sole practitioner”. So when you hear of lawyers in “private practice”, they are talking about someone like me.

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  197. on May 27, 2009 at 12:47 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Note to Virginia Gentleman:

    A situation like yours is the whole reason I found this blog. You’re treading on dangerous, dangerous ground. When I tried to “go back” and connect w/ my old school crush, it ended badly.

    Here is why I think there may be a problem:

    Women, as we know, base their assessments of men largely on status. So, when you meet new women, you’re Lawyer (to be) Man first, and a Just a Guy second. You’ve probably don’t realize the secondhand respect you get because of your position from people you meet currently.

    BUT To your old friends, you’re the same high school dude (or dork). Think about the way your parents treat you — they don’t see the academic, they still see their kid. This goes for high school people.

    So when you try to approach Ms. Scientist, you are — in a way — still the dorky high school guy. You need to redefine yourself. How do you redefine yourself? I have no idea. Maybe Roissy can help. Unless you’re very very good looking and socially skilled, I think it’s an uphill climb.

    Tread carefully. I made one wrong move and was cast out of her life, never to return. People do not treat me that way in the world now because I’m in a position of (relative) power. But to her I was the Shy Dude From Tenth Grade.

    PS — People may change their colors, but personalities never change (look at your siblings for proof — how much have they changed since they were kids?). My guess is that in the ensuing years, you have probably met someone with a personality like hers and figured out how to better deal with that person. Realize that you’re gonna be dealing with the same exact woman again, and learn what not to do from what you did before to make it go wrong. Good luck.

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  198. on May 27, 2009 at 1:00 am feministx.blogspot.com

    “This is why it’s useless to talk about attraction with women. They are totally unable to get out of their own mental models of what works, and usually won’t even articulate what really goes on with them. Sigh.”

    The men on this board really cannot understand what should be simple. Men are not all the same.

    Some men will fall for a woman who exudes excessive confidence even if this woman is not as pretty as what those men could get.

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  199. on May 27, 2009 at 1:04 am Cannon's Canon

    chuck:
    “why has this board devolved into inordinate attention paid to a revolving group of female posters? no offense b/c many of you ladies add insight to the board, but more than half of the comments on the past two of roissy’s posts have been a discussion with LR.

    it’s getting boring.”

    could it be? is that… the sound… of someone SNITCHING?

    (i’m all for it personally)

    Chuck, sometimes I’m convinced you leave your handle logged in and your girlfriend posts under your name. You go and make a salient analogy at 9:33, but by 9:50, you’re back into feminist apology. I bet you’d do great with online poker.

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  200. on May 27, 2009 at 1:05 am Tood

    The men here who flirt with the alleged females here are dragging down the quality of this board. Some of the women may not even be women. I could create a female handle and pretend to be a woman here.

    This shows that most of these men cannot do daygame approaches in real life.

    One of the only women who provided consistently good content, and strove to understand the male psyche fairly was Nicole. But she appears to be gone. LilGirl is also good, but posts rarely.

    The others are of little use.

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  201. on May 27, 2009 at 1:12 am Chuck

    “Some men will fall for a woman who exudes excessive confidence even if this woman is not as pretty as what those men could get.”

    depends on what the guy is after. if he’s after pump-and-dump, confidence means little. if he’s interested in a possible relationship, he’ll likely sacrifice a little in the looks department for some personality and confidence. a man doesn’t want to play daddy to some weak little girl.

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  202. on May 27, 2009 at 1:14 am DT

    Some men will fall for a woman who exudes excessive confidence even if this woman is not as pretty as what those men could get.

    LOL! You just proved Whiskey’s point!

    This is why it’s useless to talk about attraction with women. They are totally unable to get out of their own mental models of what works, and usually won’t even articulate what really goes on with them. Sigh.

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  203. on May 27, 2009 at 1:16 am Master Dogen

    Virginia:

    Full stop. Reverse course.

    Super-dangerous one-itis territory. Forget about her. Go out and meet ten new girls next week. Day game, bar game, whatever it takes. DO NOT PURSUE HER.

    First of all it won’t work, as it’s almost impossible for her to see you as anything other than a man who has no local options and is grasping at straws. Second of all, it creates/prolongs very unhealthy and damaging habits.

    The story as you paint it seems to have violin music and sweeping cinematic landscapes to go with it: our intrepid hero fighting against all odds to make it happen. Fuck that. It only works in the movies.

    I know this isn’t what you meant. I’m sure you’re not that cheesy, but taking it to the extreme makes the point.

    Did you read Roissy’s April Beta of the Month? Watch that video twice straight through. Then find the small part inside you that thinks like that guy, even if it is only 2% of you, and target it for full nuclear destruction. No mercy.

    Then emerge as a new man and start hunting that tang!

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  204. on May 27, 2009 at 1:17 am Max from Australia

    Days of Broken Arrows

    I agree with this 100% –

    IF I could write this in equations I would but there a mathematical proof which says that to get the best wife out of a pop’n of 100 you should date 33 and then marry the next one you meet that beats all of the others.

    (i.e. no going back)

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  205. on May 27, 2009 at 1:19 am DT

    if he’s interested in a possible relationship, he’ll likely sacrifice a little in the looks department for some personality and confidence. a man doesn’t want to play daddy to some weak little girl.

    I believe this is different from what feministx is saying. For a LTR personality and self confidence count for something, sure. But there’s no value for a woman to have excessive confidence beyond having enough to not be a weak little drama girl. A man with excessive confidence is a magnet to women. A woman’s excessive confidence will either not matter or be a turn off.

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  206. on May 27, 2009 at 1:19 am Tood

    It has been a few days, but this bears repeating :

    Gaining Moderate Competence in Game is valuable. It does not take too long to learn, as long as the student is not afraid to do approaches every day, daygame and nightgame.

    Moderate competence in Game is, status-wise, about as good as having a net worth of $2 million. A man with moderate Game an no obvious major negatives, will do about as well as a man with $2 million and Beta Game.

    Plus no one can tax, steal, defraud you out of, or mooch off your Game.

    I have defined elsewhere was constitutes Moderate Game. There are only 5 major skills that need to be internalized.

    A man with Moderate Game will regularly be able to score 8s and an infrequent 9 without trouble.

    Most women can never, ever grasp what Game is, or why it works. Never. So don’t worry about ‘getting caught’.

    Exhibit A : Chic Noir

    Despite months and months on this board, she still isn’t even a million miles within comprehending why Game works.

    This is evidenced by :
    a) The fact that she thinks it is the natural order for a man to have to BUY a woman a dring (spending $5-$10) in order to BUY a few minutes of her time to SELL himself to her.

    Chicpea thinks this is the proper natural order, despite months and months on this board.

    She cannot grasp that with Game, the man is in control and the woman is the one who lusts after him, and will jump through a few hoops if she has to.

    b) Chicpea actually thinks that women give up more by getting married than men. Despite the fact that divorce laws are tilted in favor of women, that men are attractive until a much later age than women, and men do not daydream about bridezilla weddings the way women do, Chicpea thinks the women is sacrificing more by getting married than the man is.

    Thus, hardly any woman is intellectually capable of grasping Game. A man who has learned Game has effectively learned how a woman thinks, and how to operate within a woman’s thought process.

    Women, on the other hand, not only don’t know how a man thinks, but are too lazy/incurious to even consider that a man does not think the way a woman does.

    Hence Feministx’s belief that ‘self-esteem’ does more for a woman’s success than her looks.

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  207. on May 27, 2009 at 1:22 am Tood

    DT wrote :

    This is why it’s useless to talk about attraction with women. They are totally unable to get out of their own mental models of what works, and usually won’t even articulate what really goes on with them. Sigh.

    With Chic Noir and Feminstx, this is true. After months and months here, they still aren’t within a hundred miles of a clue.

    Women aren’t thinkers. Period.

    But in general, we do see women spending a lot more time on their looks (plus plastic surgery, attractive clothes, etc.) rather than on their ‘self-esteem’, etc. So women in general (aside from a few feminists and SWPLs) are prioritizing their efforts correctly.

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  208. on May 27, 2009 at 1:24 am DT

    Did you read Roissy’s April Beta of the Month? Watch that video twice straight through.

    Dude, seeing that video twice could kill lesser men. I’m pretty sure it’s against the Geneva convention. Watching it once left my gut wrenching while I screamed in agony.

    The CIA would be using that video to torture information out of terrorists if Obama wasn’t stopping them.

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  209. on May 27, 2009 at 1:26 am Tood

    Feministx wrote :

    “Some men will fall for a woman who exudes excessive confidence even if this woman is not as pretty as what those men could get.”

    This is just a blind belief that Indians repeat to each other to make the wheels of Indian-style arranged marriage work more smoothly.

    If a man is tall, he *must* like tall women. It is simply not possible that he might like a petite woman who is just 5’2″. The cookie cutter trumps all, in Indian culture.

    The people who are actually getting married are not the only ones who decide if their prospective mate is good looking. The opinion of the mother, aunt, grandma, father, uncle, etc. all are factors in determining who is good-looking enough or not (even though they are not the ones that have to have sex with the prospective mate).

    India is an incredibly screwed up culture, in socio-sexual matters.

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  210. on May 27, 2009 at 1:26 am feministx.blogspot.com

    “A woman’s excessive confidence will either not matter or be a turn off.”

    It will probably be a turn off.

    A plain girl with low self confidence is a valued commodity. This girl will attract loads of betas that don’t have the sac to maintain dominance with a woman who has good self confidence. Girls with low self esteem are easy to dominate and that is what spineless wanna be alpha betas want.

    As for girls with excessive confidence, it will turn some men on. I know how many messages there are in my inbox from men that love it when I talk about the virtues of matriarchy and how men are so totally flawed. They get off on it. They get off on highly confident personalities as well. And those men are externally valuable.

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  211. on May 27, 2009 at 1:26 am DT

    DT wrote :

    This is why it’s useless to talk about attraction with women. They are totally unable to get out of their own mental models of what works, and usually won’t even articulate what really goes on with them. Sigh.

    Just to be clear, I didn’t write that, Whiskey originally did earlier in the thread. That’s why it was bold but I forgot to put his name after it. I clicked Submit thinking about how it would appear to feministx and didn’t stop to think that some people might not have seen it earlier.

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  212. on May 27, 2009 at 1:30 am Master Dogen

    DT wrote:

    “Dude, seeing that video twice could kill lesser men. I’m pretty sure it’s against the Geneva convention. Watching it once left my gut wrenching while I screamed in agony.”

    Heh. I must admit I only watched it once, and you would have to strap me down to a gurney to get me to watch it again.

    Jesus, I’m wincing even thinking about it.

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  213. on May 27, 2009 at 1:31 am DT

    As for girls with excessive confidence, it will turn some men on. I know how many messages there are in my inbox from men that love it when I talk about the virtues of matriarchy and how men are so totally flawed. They get off on it. They get off on highly confident personalities as well. And those men are externally valuable.

    LOL! I suppose you think “men” who let their balls be tied and whipped by a dominatrix are also valuable?

    You have your definitions backwards sweetie. The “men” who send you love letters are the beta lap dogs.

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  214. on May 27, 2009 at 1:31 am Tood

    I know how many messages there are in my inbox from men that love it when I talk about the virtues of matriarchy and how men are so totally flawed. They get off on it. They get off on highly confident personalities as well. And those men are externally valuable.

    Oh my god, she actually thinks these men are being genuine.

    In reality, these are Betas who think sucking up to a woman and pretending to be ‘feminist’ will get them laid. This is exactly the same thing as Jessica Valenti’s husband being ‘supportive of her feminism’.

    Gack! Choke me with a pencil.

    Feministx, go put a picture of yourself on AmIhotornot.com.

    See what score you get. If you get less than a 7.0 (which you will), most men do not find you attractive, and nothing about your intellect or confidence will make one bit of difference. Period.

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  215. on May 27, 2009 at 1:34 am feministx.blogspot.com

    “You have your definitions backwards sweetie. The “men” who send you love letters are the beta lap dogs.
    ”

    They are not the same as betas. Male submissives are usually alphas that identify with the wrong sexual role.

    They are valuable because they usually are normal alphas outside the bedroom. They are successful people and in less demand because of their sexual deviance and the extremely limited supply of dominant women. They are really the most sensible partner for a woman to have.

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  216. on May 27, 2009 at 1:39 am feministx.blogspot.com

    “In reality, these are Betas who think sucking up to a woman and pretending to be ‘feminist’ will get them laid.”

    No they are not. They find feminism arousing. It’s satisfies a fetish for them. That is not what a beta is. A beta is a man with no concept of what sexual attraction is about. A deviant man has a deviant concept of what he finds sexually attractive.

    “See what score you get. If you get less than a 7.0 (which you will), most men do not find you attractive, and nothing about your intellect or confidence will make one bit of difference. Period.”

    Doesn’t matter. Most men revolt me. I only want deviant men and they do find me attractive because their standards are based more in psycho-sexual compatibility.

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  217. on May 27, 2009 at 1:44 am Tood

    No they are not. They find feminism arousing. It’s satisfies a fetish for them.

    No, they don’t.

    I only want deviant men

    Well, THAT you may get without much trouble.

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  218. on May 27, 2009 at 1:50 am feministx.blogspot.com

    “No, they don’t.”

    Yes they do. Most betas hate feminism. They lack genuine sexual dominance of their own, so they resort to anti-feminist sentiments, which is really just bitter whining. They will fall into believing that society was so much better before feminism and that a man ought to be prepared to be the leader of a household. This is pseudo dominance and it’s the closest thing to masculinity that a lot of betas can get.

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  219. on May 27, 2009 at 2:04 am Max from Australia

    Oh please shut up

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  220. on May 27, 2009 at 2:07 am Days of Broken Arrows

    “I know how many messages there are in my inbox from men that love it when I talk about the virtues of matriarchy and how men are so totally flawed. They get off on it. They get off on highly confident personalities as well. And those men are externally valuable.”

    That’s because Beta losers think it will give them a chance with you. Men with few options resort to anything. Remember that “Seinfeld” episode where some blonde hot Nazi babe took a liking to George and he was flattered nontheless?

    George: I think she likes me.

    Jerry: She’s a Nazi, George!

    George: Yeah, but she’s kind of a cute Nazi.

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  221. on May 27, 2009 at 2:08 am Tood

    Feministx,

    You still don’t know what feminism is, or what the average male thinks in the average day.

    Please define for us, as per your understanding :
    1) Feminism as defined in India
    2) Feminism as defined in the US
    3) Misandry.

    Provide definitions of all three.

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  222. on May 27, 2009 at 2:42 am lovelysexybeauty

    Brilliant post! Reeeally hit home… loll If a guy is wayyyy too smooth and relaxed, I definitely start to have doubts: “What does he see in me? Why is he so into me, it makes no sense… Does he truly like me, it doesn’t seem like he does. But he goes out of his way to see me and calls me so much so maybe he does? Does he think my resistance is yet another challenge to overcome or something?”

    If a guy isn’t nervous at all at any point while asking me out or taking me out, like not even a tiny bit, I just don’t feel like I’m special or like we’re at a near-equal level of attraction. In fact I probably wouldn’t even feel as attracted, the fear of being used by a player would block those feeligns I think.

    ALSO, na guy who is really good looking or successful/famous with personality Game can cross the overqualification threshold very easily! Even more so in fact… some guys have turned this around on me I think, like asking “Are you for real? How can you look like that and not be stuck up…and with so many guys after you I’m probably just another one of your boy toys.” I don’t think I’m that hot really, so maybe something like that is a clever line by a King of Game, who knows

    Regarding how guys handle the accusation of being a player, one of the slickest players I’ve ever met actually claims to have never been one! That seems like better Game than someone who claims he was one in the past. Because if a guy was a player before, he could always relapse right? (At least that’s my thinking.) So saying he never was seems like more Game beyond Game to me lol.

    By the way, if a guy texted me about playing games I would probably respond, “Really, not even Wii?” lolll Silly comments should get silly responses hehe 😉

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  223. on May 27, 2009 at 2:49 am lovelysexybeauty

    Oh and also, what’s all this about confidence *not* making a difference with how attractive a woman is?

    For me, having more confidence has made it easier for me to use my lil sexy bag of tricks when I want to like, hypnotize a guy (who is *already* attracted to me and coming after me). Looking up at him under my eyelashes, touching my glossy lip when thinking over a question, gazing into his eyes from across the room or play-acting bashful and making little sweet smiles… this takes a sort of feminine and sexy confidence to do. At least it does for me! And the boyz seem to love it when I just let my sexy self go with the flow rather than if I just sat there with a dumb blank expression like a cold (but pretty) statue.

    Feminine sensual confidence is different from male confidence which is about speaking your mind and being all “top dog” or something.

    Like… when I feel ugly or insecure or scared (when experiences with creepy guys make me look at all men as potential stalkers or something), I don’t give off the sexy vibe at all. I just don’t feel like making eye contact or have a sexy walk and body posture. I just want to be invisible and blend in… sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

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  224. on May 27, 2009 at 2:57 am lovelysexybeauty

    I guess everyone here is using a different definition of confidence from what I am?. I think some people are looking at confidence as being opinionated or domineering, the type of person who walks up to others and is in a position to judge rather than be judged? That’s sort of like a masculine view on confidence in my opinion.

    But I’m not Mrs. Merriam Webster so maybe I’m wrong 🙂 And I’m feeling too lazy to look it up lol

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  225. on May 27, 2009 at 3:05 am Chuck

    lovely:

    it’s interesting. you can see this happen in many social situations. a group of 3 pretty decent chicks are hanging out with a group of 3 guys; 1 average, one above average looking and one guy a 10. Chances are, unless the chicks have poor self-awareness (let’s assume they are 7s), they will probably choose the guy in the middle.

    people have a range of about 3 hotness scale points that they’re willing to date within. if a person is a 5 (for men let’s assume this rating includes their income, job, etc, and let’s also assume they aren’t gamesmen), their ego and insecurity is likely unable to handle anything higher than a 7 or 8. there is some utility maximizing function that penalizes “too much of a good thing”.

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  226. on May 27, 2009 at 3:37 am Cannon's Canon

    Exceptionally ridiculous drivel from this broad tonight.

    Chuck, however, enjoys reading her. Why, not too long ago, he exclaimed: “with all due respect, what’s wrong with dissenting voices on this board? feministx is bat shit crazy sometimes, but she provides an interesting insight on many subjects.

    she’s in stark contrast to contrarian/tokyofistfuck who disagrees for the sake of disagreement.

    yeah, people give feministx unwarranted attention perhaps, but i think the board is more interesting with her around.?”

    http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/05/17/comment-policy/#comment-82509

    True story! Chuck, I really don’t set out to start it up with you. I appreciate that you comment pointedly and sparingly, as I try to as well. In the interest of civility, I would like to engage your comment from 9:50.

    Chuck: “you say that (female preference for alpha males) happened in the period 1980-1998, but this has been happening since the beginning of time. i think that it has become more noticable because of a larger shift towards the bar scene as a place to pick up chicks.”

    I believe this is a false premise. The ‘bar scene’ has blossomed into an avenue for picking up chicks simply because there are now more chicks to be picked up. The speakeasies of the 1930’s were full of debutantes and social butterflies, but they still had a patriarchal paradigm to observe. A beta provider offered much greater utility to women during this fairly recent period of history than he does today. The advent of feminism disenfranchises beta providers, and the sexual liberation of women (no-fault divorce, the pill, abortion) combined with increasingly-equal earning power enables them to be sexually impulsive. This was not always the case.

    “when men met women through traditional means, school, work, neighborhood, church etc. the couple had much more information about each other. they knew each other’s background, families, and friends. then the shift to the bar scene for people to hook up.”

    ‘Day game’ has grown in practice due to increased utility, although its indicators (social dominance, self-confidence, etc) remain the same as ever. It is harder to master and taught by professionals far less prominently than the AFC-geared Vegas “bootcamps” themed with models and bottles. My counterpoint to you is that WOMEN shifted to the bar scene for hooking up because they had been newly-empowered by the sprouts of feminism. Men throughout history would gladly engage women ANYWHERE if it was acceptable. My best attempt at a pertinent analogy: a woman walking down the sidewalk in a red dress is more likely to accept the whistles of construction workers than she was 20 years ago, and even moreso than 40 years ago… don’t even think about it 60 years ago! Would she actually fuck one? (well, yes!)

    “it became a meat market in which neither side knew anything about the other. once they did get to know each other, they only knew the party version of that person. this scenario naturally benefits the alpha male even more than in traditional settings. when a woman doesn’t know anything about the 100 possible men on a given night out, she’ll choose based upon things that women have always preferred: social dominance, looks, etc.”

    I agree with the premise of a woman’s decision-making characteristics, but these have evolved with feminism. Consider the abstract musings of G Manifesto, who succeeds amongst the mafioso of Miami by out-dressing them. By extrapolations of your theory, women would find all White Party attendees (if those had existed since the beginning of time) to meet their baseline criteria for “background, family, and friends.” This could never be the case, for a host of reasons, most certainly because a demand curve is not altered by supply.

    “and i also have to disagree that 6 and 7 women started thinking they were as hot as the 9 and 10 men they were bagging. sure it elevated their confidence and what-not, but they were merely taking advantage of what they could get.”

    My rebuttal to this point here is anecdotal (weak) but pertinent, in my own mind at least. I have posted here before at some point that I grew up with a girl who is acceptably attractive and very intelligent. She cannot reconcile her empowered job in finance against her ideal of an alpha sculpture. Thus, the man she is willing to settle for is altogether gorgeous, capable, and wealthy. If she was dumb, she could be happy settling for a lower pay-grade alpha male. If she were less than a 7, she wouldn’t reserve attraction for 8’s. If she wasn’t driven, she could appreciate the graces of a trust fund.

    Unfortunately for her, the money and products of ambition that she capably achieves leave her in a conundrum. She will never find a suitable man willing to settle, although she is a relatively ‘great catch’ by all standards. Her best bet is to find the gay son of an i-banker in the midwest who is guilted into courtship.

    And yet, if I told her this, I WOULD BE THE BAD GUY!

    “unless a 6 is retarded, she knows she’s not as hot as a given 9, but that won’t prevent her from getting sex from 9 and 10 males, at least enough to prevent her from banging only 6 and 7 males.”
    A 6 or 7 female still typically wants to get married and will settle. Today, a girl I hooked up with in college published the facebook status, “Enough is enough! Today I am BRIDEZILLA!” I smirked as I remembered shooting a load from between the top of her huge tits to the underside of her chin, then laughing uncontrollably. This was no detriment to morning relations.

    To be fair, she was no 6.

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  227. on May 27, 2009 at 3:47 am WanderingGambler

    “A beta is a man with no concept of what sexual attraction is about.”

    Christ you have some fucked up ideas.

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  228. on May 27, 2009 at 3:59 am Mikkel

    @ Lady Rain: This is what makes the difference in my mind to people who are taking the blog as what it is “passable dating advice” as opposed to otherworld reality super-cock helping to destroy the “feminst machine”.

    This shows nothing about the general reader. It is a projection of your own misconception and self-overrating regarding your intellect. This just shows how dumb you really are.

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  229. on May 27, 2009 at 4:51 am ian in hamburg

    @Mikkel – the third option is what the rest of the world thinks: this blog is the work of a psychopath, a sick individual. Of course, letting him know that will simply trigger a sly little grin and the reply: yeah, but it gets me laid! That’s like telling a scummy thief he’s nothing but a scummy thief and receiving the reply: yeah, but look at all the cool stuff I get.

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  230. on May 27, 2009 at 5:12 am Chuck

    “The ‘bar scene’ has blossomed into an avenue for picking up chicks simply because there are now more chicks to be picked up.”

    But there are also more men to do the picking. shouldn’t the social construct that was previously in place just be increased by an order of magnitude if this were the case instead of the bar or club becoming the new mating ground?

    the speakeasies of the 1920s and 1930s were not nearly as prevalent as bars are today since alcohol was illegal.

    these topics are hard because i have to operate from shit i’ve seen in movies and read about, so nobody has any true idea of how things went back then, but let’s take the example of the Old West. during that era, women other than prostitutes didn’t hang out at bars. women started going to speakeasies, but those were short-lived. i can’t recall there being any mixing of over-sexed males and females until the Acid Trips of the 1960s, the discos of the 1970s, culminating in bars and clubs today that mix both of those genres. (i discuss bars and clubs for a couple of reasons a. roissy talks a lot about gaming there b. i hang out at them quite often so i’m familiar with the scene and c. they have become a very important facet of mating and dating over the past 30 years.

    my thesis is that they have become noticably more important to mating and dating in the last 30 years than they ever had been in this nation’s history.

    “My counterpoint to you is that WOMEN shifted to the bar scene for hooking up because they had been newly-empowered by the sprouts of feminism.”

    I can totally agree with that. I don’t think it undermines my argument. without newfound equality that sprang up in the 1960s, women wouldn’t have engaged in the Acid Trips, the Love ins, Woodstock, etc. that are the forerunners to modern club culture.

    This is further evidence that feminism has fucked up a lot of things.

    Besides our level of appreciation for FemX, I don’t really see how my argument is any different from yours. Feminism has “allowed” for a rise in a culture, that includes bar and club-hopping and the rise of the bar and club to hook up and engage in sex that is a bone of contention to beta males (in that they don’t do this very often).

    alphas benefit from the bar culture, but betas still go. they fuel the fire. what would really benefit betas (and therefore *most* men) would be a segregation of male and female “3rd places” and a return of venues for women to get to know men on levels other than appearance, both physical and social.

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  231. on May 27, 2009 at 5:14 am Cannon's Canon

    re: murdering Ian in Hamburg

    That’s like telling a murderer, “Yeah, but look at what a small legacy he would leave!” Hardly satisfying? Persona non grata?

    I harbor no curiosity about whether or not my conscience could deal with death at my hands. Rather, I hypothesize if I might “sexualize” myself in the mold of Jim Morrison (for example, licking and pursing my lips habitually) to attract any women that may have formally claimed loyalty to him in the past.

    (The ‘supply’ and ‘demand’ curves OBVIOUSLY must meet!)

    FTR, I do not really equate my sexual inclinations to power/dominance fantasies; perhaps fantasies of PROMINENCE though (which MAY imply power).

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  232. on May 27, 2009 at 5:16 am Markku

    I know plenty of women including myself who know they’re attractive and refuse to settle for anything less than princess treatment. Why? It’s what I require and deserve and that’s that. Believe it or not there are plenty of men who are fine with that and still aren’t simpering crybabies and the nastier a woman is to a guy, the more they practically worship the ground they walk on and if you don’t know this…. you should hardly be worrying about application of game at this time.

    Are you capable of wanting to have sex with a man who worships the ground you walk on? If so, you belong to a sexual minority. Sexual minorities may be interesting curiosities from scientific point of view but hardly relevant in terms of the topic at hand.

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  233. on May 27, 2009 at 5:20 am anonymous 4 now

    feministx sounds batshit crazy… just my 2 cents
    (im a female, btw)

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  234. on May 27, 2009 at 6:13 am Cannon's Canon

    Chuck:
    {“The ‘bar scene’ has blossomed into an avenue for picking up chicks simply because there are now more chicks to be picked up.”}
    “But there are also more men to do the picking. shouldn’t the social construct that was previously in place just be increased by an order of magnitude if this were the case instead of the bar or club becoming the new mating ground?”

    I disagree on two fronts. The easy pickins: 80+% of layoffs have been those bootkicks to men. Disenfranchisement of overexperience, perhaps? Who cares? All women are equal to all men!

    (Entertaining misogyny for a european movie)

    At what level of precedent will {all} women accept a virtually equal livelihood?

    Like I was saying… the women who previously tolerated boring, non-descript breadwinners are now newly eligible, at least moreso that ever before.

    If I noticed that I was amidst the majority of men trending toward my state, I would be calculating my… sheeeeeeeeit, this is not a contest homie? please repeat your real question! no crowns today! (yep i’m pretty drunk right now)

    LikeLike


  235. on May 27, 2009 at 6:17 am Markku

    Alex:

    Unless you’re a partner, your hourly-rate doesn’t go into your pocket.

    I’m a 28-year-old lawyer (not in the US); I am charged out at a rate of $325 per hour and I do around 6 “billable” hours a day. Based on a 48-week year, I bill something like $468,000 per year.

    Are your clients corporations?

    It seems that without an insurance to cover the fees, requiring the services of an attorney for purposes more extensive than writing up simple documents, is a quick road to utter financial ruin for the average person.

    LikeLike


  236. on May 27, 2009 at 6:28 am Virgin@40

    I can relate to you Chuck. http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/overqualifying-yourself-to-girls/#comment-85427

    Only the two decades you’ve been in the dark are too much. I’ve been there for five or seven years and it still annoys me as hell.
    At least “game” came and gave a logical answer to (almost) everything.
    Zed’s Comment was not ver scientific but it was great, a great rant. Much truth in that.

    And believe me, with what one knows now, what is now obvious common sense but was then an unexplainable mystery, it’s way, way easier to take the girl out of the pedestal. I imagine that a steady flow of relatively actracttive girls (7s and 8s) will make wonders and one will “despise” felames in a more healty way.

    LikeLike


  237. on May 27, 2009 at 6:47 am Virgin@40

    “Too bad you don’t fly. There see equal opportunity flirting.”

    Actually, I do fly. I did it twice already… But if I can avoid it…
    Of course, I could go on with my supreme beta fantasies envolving a plane, me, my ten, and the trip to Moscow she promised to me. One day, who knows… said she…

    About day game. Girls who are not in those venues with too much alcohol or too much excitment, …
    At daytime, usually, girls are full of “don’t-you-dare-to-touch-me”.
    And I have this horrible tendence to be the nice girl and smile a lot if it happens that I am opened during the day…

    But it’s the coldness and the “Oh-I-have-much-to-do” thing that makes me think twice before opening during the day.
    And also because, I must say, I am usually trying to get somewhere as well during the day…

    And when one statrs to try using game to the fat, ugly and old lady at the recception? Just for the sake of being nice.
    Actually, older women (+65) love when I’ around them. No kino though. (Thanks God!)

    I can remember one time when I, a friend and three girls went down to a shop where girls buy neckless, earrings and stuff. It was filled with atractive teens. I was trying to jerking off, letting go one or two words to the air about how ugly and beautifull this and that were. I’d go to an actractive girl and start saying how awfull this or that was to my (male) friend in a way the unkown girl could hear.
    One opened me. The only one who was in her 70s…

    Damn, I’ve just said too much…

    LikeLike


  238. on May 27, 2009 at 7:19 am Virgin@40

    “trying to run down the current, designated blog bitch(lady rain) to win kudos from the attacking men.

    lame.

    Show more self-respect.”

    I just think this feminism to be hedious. I also think that the men on this blog should gather and beat the hell out of this one. Now seriously, what we NEED is women who look down to bitches instead of women who look up to them.

    The whole deranged thing cames from here: Bitchy women are the norm. Or are becoming the norm.

    I will aplaude any girl who looks down to a bitch.

    LikeLike


  239. on May 27, 2009 at 7:20 am Arpagus

    Chuck:

    people have a range of about 3 hotness scale points that they’re willing to date within. if a person is a 5 (for men let’s assume this rating includes their income, job, etc, and let’s also assume they aren’t gamesmen), their ego and insecurity is likely unable to handle anything higher than a 7 or 8. there is some utility maximizing function that penalizes “too much of a good thing”.

    People? If you mean women, then I agree. Men don’t have that limitation. Few men will pass up a 10 if they get a chance, no matter what they are themselves. They may realize it won’t last long, but unlike for women that’s OK, because men are far more oriented towards one night stands anyway.

    The problem with overqualifying is that women literally might not sleep with a man because he is too hot. It would be absurd for a man to say no to a one night stand with a 10 because that is all she would give him. This is a huge difference between the sexes and expressing it in gender-neutral terms is missing the point.

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  240. on May 27, 2009 at 7:35 am Days of Broken Arrows

    “Few men will pass up a 10 if they get a chance, no matter what they are themselves.”

    I passed up 10’s twice in my youth. I had my reasons, and they were idiosyncratic. Both times, I was friends with the women and they directly initiated sex.

    Funny enough, afterwards my college-addled mind simply could not comprehend why both of these women ended the friendship and basically hated me after that. Trust me, when you turn away women they take it very, very bad. I think, in retrospect, I was a weird kid, more prone to thinking than acting. Which is probably why I spend my time here, not out!

    LikeLike


  241. on May 27, 2009 at 7:36 am Eurosabra

    @ian in hamburg

    Every day, the Reeperbahn takes hard-earned cash from men who feel they have no choice, and leaves women working in less-than-ideal conditions, even in a country like Germany which tries to turn sex work into ordinary labor. I don’t think a life of total continence or as a John appeals to most men, so that leaves Game as the alternative, since it is pointless to pay someone who would rather be doing other work for something others gladly give away for free.

    LikeLike


  242. on May 27, 2009 at 8:16 am Eurosabra

    Because in private practice your clients will haggle, they will want discounts, and in case of non-payment your only option is to sue, which grants you only the power of any other creditor. If you can break kneecaps and make family members disappear, you MAY get your money, or if your client needs to preserve credit/reputation by avoiding judgements against him/herself in order to do business elsewhere. $60,000 in billing met with a counter-offer of $15,000 “or you can sue me for it” is not uncommon. Everyday Lawyer LLC thus treasures good clients who pay on time.

    LikeLike


  243. on May 27, 2009 at 8:22 am PA

    DO NOT PURSUE HER

    I agree with those who say there is no going back to old crushes. Men romanticise things more and are more prone to getting goey with nostalgia. Women move on.

    Also, in the case of reconnecting with an old crush, it’s often the case of the guy being down in the dumps at the time, which makes him think back to relics from a “happier time” in the first place.

    The only way a blast fom the past would work outr is when it’s she who makes the effort to pursue you (and you’re confident that her motives are pure.)

    LikeLike


  244. on May 27, 2009 at 8:24 am Ethan

    Now this is a fucking post.

    I usually fall on the ideal type for most women @ about 8.5 – 10. Problems arise when I bring my asshole game since most women are 8’s and below. The regular alarms go off (and my subsequent retorts):

    “Are u a player?” – (I’d only play you. U’re special.)

    “How many girls have you told this?” – (just 34 today. I’m cutting back. Old age catching up to me)

    “That’s a nice line” – (Careful, flattery will get you everywhere)

    This sir, is a goldmine. I shared with a friend just last night to spread out the cube game and his palm-reading over time and not to lay it on thick for the very same reasons. Keep on spreading the gospel.

    LikeLike


  245. on May 27, 2009 at 8:26 am Eurosabra

    Sorry, that should read “as a sole practitioner.” But you get the point.

    LikeLike


  246. on May 27, 2009 at 8:39 am RoissyIsAFag

    You are fucking retarded.

    LikeLike


  247. on May 27, 2009 at 9:55 am doug1

    Virginia Gentleman–

    Move on. Forget her. It won’t work. Besides at almost your own age, she’s too old.

    The only times that girls go back to old relationships is when they were the ones that were dumped, or it was only circumstances (off to grad school etc.) that caused the breakup. Or if say you were a stud in college but she couldn’t take all your rotation, and she meets you later.

    When she dumps you for the usual mysterious to you reasons (you were too beta and stopped emotionally and/or sexually exciting her), a rekindle is absolutely hopeless, despite how much you’ve changed. As DOBA said, she will see the old you as the core you, and see everything else as merely a bit of plumage.

    It’s also true that having a long distance relationship as your primary one or as something blocking you from local playing, aside from not getting the job done for you on the regular, will keep you beta if that’s where you already are.

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  248. on May 27, 2009 at 10:05 am QuikHit

    From the article: “Even women who are already married benefit from short-term mating with handsome men if they could successfully fool their husbands into investing in the resulting offspring.” Ouch. It’s a good thing that I’m beautiful.

    LikeLike


  249. on May 27, 2009 at 10:35 am wow

    The problem with overqualifying is that women literally might not sleep with a man because he is too hot.

    Happened my whole life…..the chick fast tracks to LTR!

    Any solutions?

    LikeLike


  250. on May 27, 2009 at 10:42 am Hollywood Hotsauce

    Rectifying overqualification is easy. All you need to do is calibrate with teases and gauge her reaction, the way she interprets a tease will let you know where your at. This articles by “Entropy PUA” pretty explains how to handle this problem.

    “I have a simple process that I apply when I’m in set: Once I hook the set, I’ll throw out a very light tease to the girl and see how she responds.
    – If she laughs and responds positively, it means my value is equal or slightly higher to hers and I’ll keep teasing until I stop getting a positive reaction.
    – If she responds negatively and seems offended, it means I’m OVERVALUED and I stop. I will compliment her, state my interest or DLV myself (buy her a drink) to bring myself closer to her. This is to make me “attainable” in her eyes. You’ll have to do this often with shy or reserved girls.
    – If she responds negatively and is cold and bored, it means I’m extremely undervalued and I need to tease her even harder. Girls who react this way, you’re not even on their radar screen yet, so you have to say something really bold and outlandish to wake them up to you.
    – If she shit-tests me back in a playful way, it means she values herself slightly more than me, in which I keep teasing until I get a negative response.
    Once I know where my value is relative to hers, I follow this blueprint:
    – If I’m OVERVALUED, I will compliment her, state my interest in her and even DLV myself.
    – If I’m UNDERVALUED, I tease and neg her harder until I get a more positive reaction or she blows me out.
    – If I’m around her value, I keep teasing at the same level and being escalating.”

    LikeLike


  251. on May 27, 2009 at 10:50 am Howard Roark

    This is a solid post. The bottom line is that if your game appears too tight, and a girl realizes that you have charmed her pants off so fast that she didn’t even know it was happening, she’ll have a moment where she feels like she’s been played already. But I think Roissy’s advice for avoiding this problem is more complicated than it needs to be. The easier solution is to throw in some self-deprecating humor or commentary to demonstrate humility. I do this all the time. If you are cocky-funny and self-deprecating at the same time, you win their hearts, because you’ve given ample evidence of being neither soft-ass nor hard-ass, and thus have survived the two major grounds for elimination. But don’t over-self-deprecate with certain types of women: lawyers, finance chicks, ghetto ethnic girls or native New Yorkers. They will see it as a sign of weakness.

    LikeLike


  252. on May 27, 2009 at 11:55 am Firepower

    Lady Rains Lil Bastard

    momma, is gunny my new daddy? i’ve just set my bed on fire while you were on the puter.

    totally over the top and unecessarily cruel…i want to buy you a beer lmfao

    we’ll discuss chic noir’s sudden concealment of her avatar.

    LikeLike


  253. on May 27, 2009 at 12:20 pm Virgin@40

    Great comment Holywood somthing…

    But, imagine you have a relationship (not sexual or else. Just friends) with a hot girl to whom you are clearly undervallued, both to her eyes and to everybody else who has one eye at least.

    Is there any chance of you to start negging her in such a way that you will become closer to her vallue?

    In my little experience, I find that one must have to gain the “trust” of the girl first.
    Then also, making her believe that you’re not interested in her simply because she looks (awesomely) good or that simply her presence makes you feel better.
    And then, the thing you can do to raise your vallue, or better, the consideration she has for you, is to negg her gently with two main goals:

    a) Making her laugh; making her having a good time.
    b) Making her aware that she has defects and that 1a) you don’t like them (devaluating the girl) 1b) that you actually like some of her defects (mainly built comfort and show some stamina/backbone/personality).

    I came to this conclusions after looking back to the last 2 months and my interactions – mainly online – with “my” ten who does not care at all about me. And especially, when I look back to the four years I’ve known her.
    It stuck me that I couldn’t find any physical defects on her while I did admire her personality for what nineteen out of twenty persons would claim are defects.

    I also have noticed, by looking back, that untill fairly recently, when we started to change words 1 on 1 on line, that she believed that my interest on her was purely carnal. And that I did a lot to show to her and the world the image of being a lazy pervert who’d do anything in change of seeing her boobs or something, all this combined with a pseudo moral superiority. The truth is that when I met her I came from a difficult phase and I hadn’t no grasp of what girls like, that is, game.

    But what really blows my mind is when I put myself in her place – I usually do try to put myself in the other persons positions – and think about why she would remember me, or care about me at all.
    I can’t honestly find one answer. And the truth is that I never tryed to excite her emotionally or left a reason for her to remember me.
    It’s so stupid now but my focus was not on me, was not on making her like me, or pursuit me. My intire focus was on providing good moments to her, and many times I believed that those good moments were better if I was out… so stupid…

    I don’t hate girls but I wish I did.

    LikeLike


  254. on May 27, 2009 at 12:45 pm Curious Lady

    Doug1:
    “Besides at almost your own age, she’s too old.”

    Say what…??
    Really, please do explain that 1.

    LikeLike


  255. on May 27, 2009 at 12:46 pm Comment_Whatever

    Arpagus:

    Few men will pass up a 10 if they get a chance, no matter what they are themselves.

    Days of Broken Arrows said:

    I passed up 10’s twice in my youth. I had my reasons, and they were idiosyncratic. Both times, I was friends with the women and they directly initiated sex.

    Funny enough, afterwards my college-addled mind simply could not comprehend why both of these women ended the friendship and basically hated me after that. Trust me, when you turn away women they take it very, very bad. I think, in retrospect, I was a weird kid, more prone to thinking than acting. Which is probably why I spend my time here, not out!

    It wasn’t a ten in my (only) case… but it was in college. I maintained the friendship through the simple and efficient act of pretending to become flustered, refusing to meet her in the eye, and in general playing like I was a shy, embarrassed little guy. I then ‘fled’.

    She was an aggressive girl in a good long-distance LTR. Her boyfriend was a physically great specimen(I saw him later, I’m not a girl, but very tall, very muscular, good face), smart, nice… and lacking in emotional toughness. I can see why she wanted to cheat… I’m just glad she believed the whole flustered act.

    Of course, it was either believe the embarrassed guy act, or believe I rejected her. And what’s a girl going to do?

    Look at the frightened beta bolt!

    It also stops future attempts, and LJBF’s you pretty good.

    I’m not saying it’s the best way to handle the situation, but it works.

    LikeLike


  256. on May 27, 2009 at 12:51 pm Cannon's Canon

    wow, i was incredibly drunk last night!

    i’m sending out the snowman text to three prospects right now.

    LikeLike


  257. on May 27, 2009 at 2:09 pm Tupac Chopra

    Hollywood:

    “I have a simple process that I apply when I’m in set: Once I hook the set, I’ll throw out a very light tease to the girl and see how she responds.
    – If she laughs and responds positively, it means my value is equal or slightly higher to hers and I’ll keep teasing until I stop getting a positive reaction.
    – If she responds negatively and seems offended, it means I’m OVERVALUED and I stop. I will compliment her, state my interest or DLV myself (buy her a drink) to bring myself closer to her. This is to make me “attainable” in her eyes. You’ll have to do this often with shy or reserved girls.
    – If she responds negatively and is cold and bored, it means I’m extremely undervalued and I need to tease her even harder. Girls who react this way, you’re not even on their radar screen yet, so you have to say something really bold and outlandish to wake them up to you.
    – If she shit-tests me back in a playful way, it means she values herself slightly more than me, in which I keep teasing until I get a negative response.
    Once I know where my value is relative to hers, I follow this blueprint:
    – If I’m OVERVALUED, I will compliment her, state my interest in her and even DLV myself.
    – If I’m UNDERVALUED, I tease and neg her harder until I get a more positive reaction or she blows me out.
    – If I’m around her value, I keep teasing at the same level and being escalating.”

    This.

    It’s all quite simple folks. Y

    Reward when she’s good, i.e., compliant

    Punish when she’s bad, i.e., shit-testing, cold-shoulderish.

    The trick in all this is having the perceptiveness to read the signs in all their many manifestations. The power exchange between a man and woman can take many forms and only field experience can drill this perceptiveness into your mental cells.

    But the principle above is at the heart of it.

    Aspiring PUA’s should realize that TV show to watch in order to learn about dealing with women is NOT “The PickUp Artist” or “Keys To The VIP”.

    It’s “The Dog Whisperer”

    LikeLike


  258. on May 27, 2009 at 2:34 pm PA

    It’s “The Dog Whisperer”

    Ahem! let’s break into song:

    You been bad
    Don’t do what I say.
    You don’t listen.
    And you never obey.
    Try to teach you.
    But you just won’t be good.
    You won’t behave the way
    A big girl should.
    It’s time to give the whip a crack.
    I’m gonna have to send you back to
    Bitch School.
    Bitch School.

    You’re a beauty.
    You’re the best of your breed.
    You’re a handful.
    And I know what you need.
    You need training.
    Gonna bring you to heel.
    I’m gonna break you with my will of steel.
    Discipline’s my middle name.
    And no one comes back the same from
    Bitch School.
    Bitch School.

    No more sniffling strangers, or running free at night.
    You think my bark’s bad, honey – wait till you feel my bite.
    You got problems.
    You whine and you beg.
    When I’m busy,
    You wanna dance with my leg.
    I’m gonna chain you.
    Make you sleep out of doors.
    You’re so fetching when you’re down on all fours.
    And when you hear your master,
    You will come a little faster, thanks to
    Bitch School.

    – Spinal Tap

    LikeLike


  259. on May 27, 2009 at 2:57 pm novaseeker

    alphas benefit from the bar culture, but betas still go. they fuel the fire. what would really benefit betas (and therefore *most* men) would be a segregation of male and female “3rd places” and a return of venues for women to get to know men on levels other than appearance, both physical and social.

    Chuck —

    Actually it’s been the case for a few decades that people have been using bars and clubs to meet sex partners. You and Cannon are both right that this came about as a result of feminism and the sexual revolution, because the market became flooded with women who were also trolling for casual sex partners — that was new.

    But very few people will have met their partner/spousal unit in a bar or a club. That still holds true today. Some relationships happen based on meets in bars and clubs, but the % of spouses met there is very, very small.

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  260. on May 27, 2009 at 3:07 pm PA

    Some relationships happen based on meets in bars and clubs, but the % of spouses met there is very, very small.

    I don’t think ANY of my lays during my single days came about in a bar or a club. For the most part, I met those girls at parties, work, classes, friends-of-friends, “networking” within my ethnic community in the U.S. etc.

    Bars/clubs were never my pickup scene.

    LikeLike


  261. on May 27, 2009 at 3:25 pm doug1

    PA; Thursday; Maurice; others

    You guys were discussing Derbyshire’s lack of good stuff of late a couple of threads ago. (I’m not recalling who was the main exponent of that; not one of the above I don’t think.) I didn’t entirely disagree but didn’t enter into it.

    There was a theory floated that this has been the case since he’s gone completely off religion. That I didn’t agree with. Seems to me he hasn’t be INTO religion for a very long time if ever; he just didn’t feel lie alienating a wing of conservatives in the US by being out and noisy about it, until a year ago or so. Instead I’ve thought that age and greater depression, and a sense of running out of pretty lies to uncover, except by endless repetition, was more the issue for him.

    Anyway, I was rummaging around his site just now and came across this piece from a month ago that I thought was quite good. However, the last section, beneath the last horizontal line, is illustrative of where he’s at emotionally. Instead of calling for a degree of civilized and compassionate race realism to become public and accepted, he concludes by saying the muddle where in, and the inability to publicaly face reality, is hopeless, hopeless, and will forever more remain hopeless. However, that conclusion is apart from the rest of his piece which I thought quite excellent and insightful. Summed up a lot of my own thoughts.

    Here is his piece on the Ricci case, and the post 60’s capsule history of race relations in America generally.

    (Please no stupid race bating people, in any direction.)

    LikeLike


  262. on May 27, 2009 at 3:31 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    “But, imagine you have a relationship (not sexual or else. Just friends) with a hot girl to whom you are clearly undervalued, both to her eyes and to everybody else who has one eye at least. Is there any chance of you to start neging her in such a way that you will become closer to her value?”

    If that’s the case then there’s no point, why would you neg a friend? You’re basically what’s known as an “orbiter” in this position and no amount of “neging” will convince her to part her legs for you. You’re NOT in a sexual relationship with her so anything thing you say now will just be viewed from a “friend” frame and brushed off. The game’s over here, move on.

    “In my little experience, I find that one must have to gain the “trust” of the girl first. Then also, making her believe that you’re not interested in her simply because she looks (awesomely) good or that simply her presence makes you feel better. And then, the thing you can do to raise your value, or better, the consideration she has for you, is to neg her gently with two main goals”

    No you gain ATTRACTION first. When you try to gain a girl’s “trust” before building attraction you come off as supplicative and rapport seeking, two game killers right there. The way you make her believe you’re not interested simply for her looks is to disqualify yourself, basically agree with anything she disagrees with and disagree with anything she agrees with, done playfully of course, this is ACTIVE disqualification.

    “a) Making her laugh; making her having a good time.
    b) Making her aware that she has defects and that 1a) you don’t like them (devaluating the girl) 1b) that you actually like some of her defects (mainly built comfort and show some stamina/backbone/personality)”

    Neging a girl is NOT pointing out her defects, making fun of a girl’s defects you could easily offend her for real and come off as a charmless asshole. I use teases instead of negs anyways, much more congruent with my personality.

    “I came to this conclusions after looking back to the last 2 months and my interactions – mainly online – with “my” ten who does not care at all about me. And especially, when I look back to the four years I’ve known her. It struck me that I couldn’t find any physical defects on her while I did admire her personality for what nineteen out of twenty persons would claim are defects.”

    Your not going to fuck this “ten”. Any chance you ever had with her is long gone. Get over it and move on. By all means keep her as a friend if you want but she’s NOT going to have sex with you.

    “I also have noticed, by looking back, that until fairly recently, when we started to change words 1 on 1 on line, that she believed that my interest on her was purely carnal. And that I did a lot to show to her and the world the image of being a lazy pervert who’d do anything in change of seeing her boobs or something, all this combined with a pseudo moral superiority. The truth is that when I met her I came from a difficult phase and I hadn’t a grasp of what girls like, that is, game”

    Not really surprised by this admission. All the while you thought you were “hiding” you’re feeling she saw through it all along. She kept you around to feast on your validation and attention. If you’ve been reading roissy’s musings for a while now, you should know how to avoid putting yourself in positions like this.

    “But what really blows my mind is when I put myself in her place – I usually do try to put myself in the other person’s positions – and think about why she would remember me, or care about me at all. I can’t honestly find one answer. And the truth is that I never tried to excite her emotionally or left a reason for her to remember me. It’s so stupid now but my focus was not on me, was not on making her like me or pursuit me. My entire focus was on providing good moments to her, and many times I believed that those good moments were better if I was out… so stupid…”

    Yes you’ve been stupid VERY stupid but the very fact that you’re here means there’s hope for you.

    “I don’t hate girls but I wish I did”

    Learn to love women for who they are and what they are and accept you’ll never change them. When you do that life becomes WAYYYY easier.

    DH,

    LikeLike


  263. on May 27, 2009 at 3:35 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    Tupac

    You’re basically emphasising my point in a more concise way. Can’t really disagree, good calibration only comes from
    extensive infield exposure.

    I was actually watching old episodes of “Keys To The VIP” yesterday. Excellent entertainment, almost zero real world application.

    LikeLike


  264. on May 27, 2009 at 3:40 pm Chuck

    PA, Nova:

    “Bars/clubs were never my pickup scene.”

    mine either. i’m much better in a work setting or at a house party. my main point earlier though is that the success of the alpha is thrown more in the face of men who have trouble picking up women because of the increased importance that the bar plays in intergender relations.

    reading some of roissy and roosh’s stories, i’m left thinking, “shit, why can’t i do that?” people on this board especially extol the virtue of picking up chicks in bars, and if you go out on the town very often, you realize how much emphasis is given and value added to the success in that realm.

    my argument is not that most long-lasting relationships are formed in bars, luckily they aren’t, but so many men base their own self-worth on their ability to score in bars, but the cards are more stacked against them. their lack of success is highlighted by the dynamics of the bar.

    LikeLike


  265. on May 27, 2009 at 3:59 pm Lady Rain

    1. Hollywood Hotsauce= Lady Rain’s Lil Bastard

    2. Please stop accusing me of being all these other people. I’m not “sara I” or whomever else you are referring to.

    3. Gunslinger– Once again, I’d like you to explain exactly how you “gamed” me. The only conversations we’ve ever had was on here. There was never any flirting on my part. You asked for email. I said “sure whatever” and never gave it to you. How is this successful game? If you consider getting a woman to answer a question in a forum “game” this explains a lot about you, however it would still do you no good because if you’re not attractive, I’d never date you.

    4. I keep seeing people mistakenly referring to “female-self esteem” as arrogance or bitchiness or dominance. That isn’t self-esteem. Second I don’t argue that a woman’s physical looks come first. However unless she plans to never open her mouth and speak a word that is the only way that it does not effect her attractiveness level.

    For example, when you spend time around guy friends (as a woman) you’ll hear the different references they use to describe a woman’s looks such as “pretty” or “hot”. The woman can be very “pretty” to look at, but give off a low-sexual vibe or whatever the case that makes her pretty instead of “hot” (ie: sexy and attractive)

    I realize men will sleep with a physically attractive women even if her self-esteem isn’t the greatest but that’s only desperate men or bed-notchers not actual REAL men who want a fun companion AND fun sex-mate.

    A woman’s self esteem has everything to do with her attractiveness because she will give off a “vibe” of some sort whether she likes it or not that the men in vicinity will pick up on. Sure, it can be contrived but that’s when it comes out in the form of the arrogance or bitchiness the men here are describing.

    A woman with low self-esteem never gets to be anything more than the “pump and dump” because even if the guy just wants a casual relationship (ie: sex every once in awhile and a friendly companionship) he still would not “go back for seconds” to a woman who turns off all the lights, whines about her weight, and puts herself down. That is not a “fun companion”. I don’t see how anyone can argue that a woman’s self-esteem is important on top of physical appearance.

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  266. on May 27, 2009 at 4:04 pm Hollywood Hotsauce

    Lady Rain = Hollywood’s Cum Mule. Slurp Slurp Slurp!

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  267. on May 27, 2009 at 4:13 pm Babaero Serrada

    @feministx “Male submissives are usually alphas that identify with the wrong sexual role.

    They are valuable because they usually are normal alphas outside the bedroom.”

    –> aren’t you the one who previously said you wanted a super dominant guy?

    ridiculous

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  268. on May 27, 2009 at 4:15 pm gig

    in the bars I go to, I estimate that 75% of the guys don’t approach girls. There is a widespread mindset among guys here that say “look at my credit card bill! I spent R$ XXX in bars/nightclubs!! I am having lots of fun!!!” ignoring that silly stuff about kissing or fucking girls.

    The G manifesto posted nice stuff about the richest among those guys, those who pay for tables or bottles in order to enter the trendiest places without having to know the right people

    concerning girls, by my experience and those of my friends, they are totally cool with months and months without sex. Most girls have a feral phase in the beginning of college, but then it goes away.

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  269. on May 27, 2009 at 4:17 pm Lady Rain

    Keep dreaming, pumpkin

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  270. on May 27, 2009 at 4:30 pm gig

    feministX:
    high IQ (sophisticated blog plus high IQ ethnicity) +
    high sex drive (naked pictures of herself) +
    attraction for white people (aryan fixation of indians) +
    low beauty
    ==feminazi and man hater

    by the fourth factor she is unable to attract the dominant guys she wants

    by the second factor, she puts much more weight than regular women on the physical charactheristics of the guy, which is a characteristic of sluts, who basically mimic the male sex drive (e.g. Lady Rain)

    she then convinces herself than placing purple saguaros inside the asses of big, blond guys without game and nice jobs is equivalent of being fucked by alphas. and creates the oxymoron of dominant alphas who are submissive in bed.

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  271. on May 27, 2009 at 4:35 pm collegeboy

    “I realize men will sleep with a physically attractive women even if her self-esteem isn’t the greatest but that’s only desperate men or bed-notchers not actual REAL men who want a fun companion AND fun sex-mate. (…) A woman’s self esteem has everything to do with her attractiveness ”

    That is just complete bullshit Lady T-pain. Are you aiming on converting some men here to think the way you do? It sure looks like it. Since you still cannot get trough that thick skull of yours that for men a womens “self esteem” is on the least end of attractiveness.

    “I don’t see how anyone can argue that a woman’s self-esteem is important on top of physical appearance.”

    Women…not getting shit since day one. I still gots loves for yous.

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  272. on May 27, 2009 at 4:37 pm aliasclio

    Lady Rain, there’s no use in trying to persuade the men on this blog that they ever, ever respond to anything but a woman’s looks+youth. I’ve been trying to convince them of it for almost two years now (talk about a waste of time), with no luck. Ask them, “which of three 10s at a bar do you think you’ll find most attractive?” and they’ll always say “the prettiest, naturally”, without hesitation or doubt.

    The idea that Mr A might find Miss G most attractive of 3 otherwise equally pretty/appealing women because she strikes some kind of chord in him is just unknown to them. If you press, he’ll insist that Miss G is in fact the prettiest, in spite of the fact that an objective observer can’t see any beauty difference between her and Miss H or Miss J.

    I’d disagree with you, however, in your assumption that the difference that makes one woman more noticeable than another for most men is based on self-confidence. Usually, it isn’t: confidence doesn’t make much difference in a man’s initial attraction to a woman, though it can help the woman to hold on to him. (Confidence does help to determine what women are in the running at all. Shy introverted women tend not to go to bars much.)

    So, men can be a little obtuse. On the other hand, I agree with some men here that you have been a bit thick in your understanding of your own attraction “buttons”. You claim to want a man who treats you right, but you also say you prefer the ones who are covered in tattoos. Now, there are some decent men who wear tattooos, I’m sure – and this is partly a class rather than a niceness marker, anyway – but still, tattoos tend to be a mark of the Tough Guy (or Hard Man, as the Brits say), even now – men who do not make a point of treating women well.

    Clio

    p.s. It really is time to take down the skanky myspace page. Put up a facebook page with no naughty photos or friends on it. Yes, some people will remember your earlier incarnation but they’ll appreciate your gesture. The risque stuff is for 20 year-olds and old women (if they lack a sense of dignity), not for mothers of young children. Your son will still know you’re human; but at least you won’t have scumbag men pursuing you to the same degree.

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  273. on May 27, 2009 at 4:38 pm Lady Rain

    gig–

    I’m sorry, but are you implying that having a sex-drive equally healthy to that of a man’s is “slutty”? Or are you using the term loosely?

    I don’t really care either way, I’m just curious and I found your post a little confusing. Where you saying that a man who is submissive in bed is not an Alpha?

    If that’s the case, I disagree simply because submissive in bed doesn’t mean either Alpha or Beta or anything else. Often people like the opposite in bed as what they like in their real lives (ie: high-powered attorney likes to be spanked)

    The actual act of sex itself is like the mind’s equivalent to working out unconscious issues much like in one’s sleep and doesn’t necessarily tell you anything about their “conscious personality” whether in regards to men or women. (in reference to normal sexual acts/fantasies)

    (Note: I’m not referring to things people say/do during sex but the actual passive or aggressive position itself.)

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  274. on May 27, 2009 at 4:38 pm gig

    @ian in hamburg

    We missed you! I am still wanting to know how did you come to this blog. My bet is you googled “female infidelity”

    @feministX

    They are not the same as betas. Male submissives are usually alphas that identify with the wrong sexual role.

    the alpha/beta dichotomy doesn’t apply to gays or bi-sexual men. those guys should be rated by physical beauty and youth, like women. Remove the “alphas” and replace it by “9s or 10s”. Just like the 1-10 scale doesn’t apply to men, since there is no way to put weights in the pool of traits (assertivenss, humor, creativity, beauty, income,) that make men desirable.

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  275. on May 27, 2009 at 4:40 pm gig

    high-powered attorney doesn’t equal alpha. it equals high income. the kind of guy who goes to strip clubs, if you understand what I mean

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  276. on May 27, 2009 at 4:44 pm doug1

    Babaero Serrada

    @feministx ***

    –> aren’t you the one who previously said you wanted a super dominant guy?

    ridiculous

    Yeah.

    In fact she said specifically she needed super dominant in the bedroom to feel it with a man. Sadistic there even.

    That was how she was working w/Rum’s theory that lesbians are really super hypergamous heteros manque, because they’re generally not hot enough to attract the level of alpha they need to feel their submerged hetero juices flowing. She REALLY pricked up her ears when she heard him say that. (I said there may be some truth to this with some bi girls, but not hard wired lesbians, which feministx had seemed to be to me the moment she started going into detail about her past male sexual experiences.)

    Why the flip? Well as I’ve long said, she’s constructing a theory of the (non existent) hetero side of her sexuality as she goes along. This is in the context of having recently gotten serious about husband hunting, as S.Asian girls in America are wont to do around her age or a bit earlier. Also S.Asians, coming from a thoroughly arranged marriage culture, are widely thought to be gold diggers about marriage. Feministx adds to that notions of genetic gold digging, based in part on her HBD theories.

    She’s found on her own site, where she plays feminist dominant and dismissive over men as her stock in trade (while making fairly intelligent observations about a variety of things, including some HBD stuff that S.Asians in America are also relatively wont to do), that the men who are interested in her are male submissives for the most part. (Surprise.)

    So she’s latched onto the meme, largely fiction, that a lot of male submissives are only that in the bedroom but big time alphas otherwise. (That type does exist but is rare. Sounds like good PR to submissive men and women who cater to them though.) Rather most male submissives are clear betas, though sometimes high earning. Some accountants, some kinds of nerdy type lawyers, and so on. More usually clerks etc. They are very rarely truly aggressive and dominant outside the bedroom. Not saying that’s absolutely never true. I’m saying it’s rare and largely and attractive (to some) myth.

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  277. on May 27, 2009 at 4:50 pm doug1

    Alias Clio–

    Ask them, “which of three 10s at a bar do you think you’ll find most attractive?” and they’ll always say “the prettiest, naturally”, without hesitation or doubt.

    I would never say that, and haven’t on this blog ever. I’ve long said that Roissy overestimates, somewhat, the role of sheer beauty in what attracts a man.

    It’s more like beauty is a threshold for most men, and thereafter as it’s increased it’s a factor still, but so is apparent sexual heat/hunger, intelligence, “fun-ness”, compatibility, and so on. These things (other than sexual heat) matter more in a long term relationship, but matter too to most in short term as well, in the way I’m describing.

    I know this is the case with me. It also seems to me to be the case with most men. A number of others here have agreed with this including I remember PA. I think your eternally (jokingly, sort of) devoted Tupac has too.

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  278. on May 27, 2009 at 4:50 pm Lady Rain

    Gig–

    Yes I know I was just offering an example that a guy can be “the one in charge” in daily life and not desire it in the bedroom. I wasn’t being literal.

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  279. on May 27, 2009 at 4:55 pm doug1

    aliasclio–

    (Confidence does help to determine what women are in the running at all. Shy introverted women tend not to go to bars much.)

    Yeah, this can be a big factor. It’s not just going to bars, it’s putting herself out there generally much at all. Or being willing to respond to an intriguing and well done flirt from an attractive enough man in an everyday venue.

    What I said to L.Rain, which she ignored, is that the attraction add of confidence in women can be thought of as an inverted (and stretched out somewhat) U. It does add as confidence goes up to a middle level, but then does add much, and then decreases her attractiveness after a certain point.

    In contrast confident going into lower levels of arrogance (and for some women very high levels o arrogance) is strongly additive to male attractiveness across a very long spectrum.

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  280. on May 27, 2009 at 4:58 pm Lady Rain

    Clio–

    Yes I know what you mean which is why I said the woman with low self-esteem would attract the “pump and dump” (ie: she’s physically really attractive and sexy to look at but the open she opens her mouth to speak, she’s not.)

    Also, the things that make a man think one woman is more attractive than the other often ARE related to the way she carries herself and he doesn’t realize it. (when referring to two equally attractive women. Just because he may not know what that “something” is, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It just sets a trigger in their brain as “attractive” (when added to the initial physical attractiveness)

    As for my page, I assure you that NOT having any “sexy” pictures attracted just as many sleazebags as it does now. I didn’t have any until about a year ago (I’ve had my account maybe 6 or 7 years) when I realized “why should I have to hide what I look like just because perverts exist?” I have facebook but never use it because I can’t stand all the apps and the invites and crap on there.

    Also, unless I had “sexual” pictures I still don’t see what is “slutty” about my profile considering that the only questionable pics are still more coverage than a bathing suit provides (and obviously I do take my son swimming) so what is the difference? I can only assume you mean my pics since my actual written profile is about as “uninviting” toward pervs as it gets.

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  281. on May 27, 2009 at 4:59 pm doug1

    L.Rain

    I keep seeing people mistakenly referring to “female-self esteem” as arrogance or bitchiness or dominance. That isn’t self-esteem.

    No but there’s a lot of overlap. As well you seem clearly to be of the type you describe save perhaps bitchiness, exactly. Your aggressiveness is more male like and “asshole” or attack dog.

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  282. on May 27, 2009 at 5:00 pm Lady Rain

    Doug–

    I didn’t ignore you intentionally I didn’t realize you were directing a conversation at me.

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  283. on May 27, 2009 at 5:00 pm Default User

    Lady Rain

    Please stop accusing me of being all these other people. I’m not “sara I” or whomever else you are referring to.

    That was more a joke than anything. I mean there could only be one sara I.

    For now I am prepared to accept that you are indeed unique and special snowflake. A snowflake that is entirely different to the unique and special snowflake we know as sara I.

    By the way, did you ever meet Rod Stewart?

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  284. on May 27, 2009 at 5:01 pm Tupac Chopra

    Clio:

    The idea that Mr A might find Miss G most attractive of 3 otherwise equally pretty/appealing women because she strikes some kind of chord in him is just unknown to them.

    Pshaw.

    It’s quite possible that “Mr. T.C.” might find “Miss C” most attractive out of 3 otherwise equally pretty/appealing (and even younger!)women. 😉

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  285. on May 27, 2009 at 5:01 pm gig

    @aliasclio

    PA posts at least once a week that you should “choose a girl just above your attractiveness threshold but with the best character possible”.

    there is also the funnier world of G manifesto, where only attractiveness and youth matter. In a nightclub, PA’s view is silly. It is pure G manifesto.

    If a guy wants to settle, he applies PA’s theory on the pool of women he previously applied G’s theory, chosing among those the one who is still above the threshold of beauty he can get, but with the best personality among those.

    Guys who find their choices of girl below average in beauty will rationalyze to themselves and to their wifes that personality is what matters.

    Also, the girls personality depends on the man she is with, much morethan the reverse. Let the guy be alpha enough for her, she’ll leave her neurosis behind.

    We have a couple of expressions in Brazil for those situations. “Bem comida” is a girl who is being, literally, “well fucked”. You can say that by the way she looks at her man, at her vibe, happiness, smiles and everything. “Mal comida” is the opposite, who usually complains about everything, negative vibe, gets angry easily. Think about Sara I.

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  286. on May 27, 2009 at 5:07 pm maurice

    @clio – come on, you must be aware of the extent to which the host and commenters here exaggerate for rhetorical effect. a sort of puffing up of the chest, which is not conincidentally related to the point of the blog. roissy is not wrong about the basic drivers of attraction, obviously – looks matter most. you didn’t dispute this. but there are, ahem, emanations and penumbras. (sorry about that.) all things being equal, i think most of us would prefer the smart, funny, grounded pretty girl over the equally pretty airhead – even for a fling. even trading a point or so on the looks scale for that kind of compatibility.

    and like doug said, once that threshhold of beauty is met, other things really do come to the fore. but looks matter most in the initial phase.

    age matters too – older guys are more discerning of quality and less tolerant of trash then younger guys.

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  287. on May 27, 2009 at 5:09 pm Lady Rain

    Doug–

    I don’t see how you can make that assumption about me as the only interaction you’ve ever had with me is in debate style comment posting and not casual real life situations or even face to face communication.

    I am often “bitchy” but that’s just my personality it has nothing to do with self-esteem. Also I’m not “dominant” over men I date and don’t want to be because there’s nothing about having to be some guys “mommy” that interests me.

    lol an “attack dog”? Really, doug. Perhaps in internet conversations regarding heated issues like gender and politics and such, but I don’t hang with “groups of angry females” out at bars who delight in “turning men down” which is contrived confidence. I don’t get a thrill out of tricking or belittling men, either.

    My self-esteem is high because why shouldn’t it be? I have everything I want in regards to my life thus far and have never failed to get something I want. Not only does that help self-esteem to grow, but I see no reason why I should ever fail unless I’m not trying hard enough. Insults don’t bother me and when people are reduced to random insult flinging it just reinforces the fact that those people are unhappy with THEIR lives and think that other people are weak enough to be “made unhappy” by the opinion of others.

    Once I start being accused of being the kind of woman you describe by people I know in REAL life, then maybe I will consider it an opinion to be considered.

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  288. on May 27, 2009 at 5:12 pm Lady Rain

    Default–

    Why on earth would anyone want to meet Rod Stewart?

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  289. on May 27, 2009 at 5:13 pm gig

    I asked once about how the American readership would rate Lady Rain

    She was unanimously well rated (by four guys, but at least no one felt offended enough to oppose the verdict)

    ergo she has high self-esteem because she is considered attractive

    bitchiness has two sides: attractive girls who reject lower status guys and unnattractive girls who want to blame the world (femX, where are you?!?!?).

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  290. on May 27, 2009 at 5:28 pm Default User

    Alias Clio, Lady Rain

    Regarding female confidence.

    It is true that factors other than pure beauty factor into female attractiveness.

    However on the confidence trait they are entirely reversed for men and women. A man can compensate for lack of looks in a way that a woman cannot. A very good-looking man may get away with less confidence but he cannot rely on his looks to carry the day. If he has too little confidence he generate attraction followed by immediate disappointment (women will not take too long to pick up on that).

    Even unconfident women can still generate male attraction. While a shy woman will not be “out there” she will still be able to generate some male interest. The shy female librarian will receive some male interest. Some men will like the idea of reaching that warm woman waiting to burst out of the shy girl.
    [Think of the clichéd male fantasy: Shy girl takes off her glasses, pulls hair out of prim bun, demure smile turns to sultry look]

    The shy male librarian goes home alone. Every night. No matter how good-looking he is. Outside of some maternal feelings there is no female equivalent of the shy librarian fantasy above.

    A very needy or insecure woman is probably as unattractive as the equivalent man. However, she only has to raise her confidence a little to be good enough (so as to not raise red flags). A similar man has a lot of work to do.

    Given that most women will be about normal in their confidence this means that it will be her looks that really carry the day. A bit of extra confidence can help. But absent good looks it will not really help. A man with average looks and average confidence can be just about invisible sexually.

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  291. on May 27, 2009 at 5:29 pm Thursday

    Clio:

    Gig is right. Up to a certain threshold looks are everything, but past that point they are only one factor among many.

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  292. on May 27, 2009 at 5:29 pm xsplat

    Chuck

    a man doesn’t want to play daddy to some weak little girl.

    Yes, a man does.

    If she’s a good little girl, a man can find great contentment playing daddy.

    Boys need mentors in their lovers when young, peers when middling, and when older take on the mentor role. A man is already contained – he is bigger than and contains woman – he is the manager. The daddy.

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  293. on May 27, 2009 at 5:30 pm Default User

    Lady Rain

    Why on earth would anyone want to meet Rod Stewart?

    Funny, that is what sara I said. 🙂

    [forum in-joke, don’t worry about it]

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  294. on May 27, 2009 at 5:34 pm Joe

    doug1

    So she’s latched onto the meme, largely fiction, that a lot of male submissives are only that in the bedroom but big time alphas otherwise. (That type does exist but is rare. Sounds like good PR to submissive men and women who cater to them though.) Rather most male submissives are clear betas, though sometimes high earning. Some accountants, some kinds of nerdy type lawyers, and so on. More usually clerks etc. They are very rarely truly aggressive and dominant outside the bedroom. Not saying that’s absolutely never true. I’m saying it’s rare and largely and attractive (to some) myth.

    I had an ex girlfriend who was a dominatrix. That type wasn’t that rare, unless her clientele was just unique. The domination scenario they undergo is a myth, play acting, the dominatrix is never truly in control. The man can break character whenever he wants and tell her to stop, change what she’s doing, be more dominant, less dominant, whatever. Her clients were men who were so dominating, so in control in their daily lives, so afraid to give any quarter in the real world that they wanted a “safe” place under their control where they can be vulnerable. Since they’re such control freaks though, they end up even controlling the terms of how they get dominated, hence the arrangement where they pay someone to dominate them and dictate the terms of the domination. Many of her clients were betas but many were also genuine alphas who wanted to feel how it was to allow themselves to be weak for once. I don’t know which type made up the majority of her clients but there was no shortage of either type.

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  295. on May 27, 2009 at 5:36 pm Joe

    Lady Rain, do you have hairy forearms? Is your ring finger same length as your index finger? Serious questions here.

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  296. on May 27, 2009 at 5:42 pm Default User

    doug1, Alias Clio

    It’s more like beauty is a threshold for most men, and thereafter…

    I agree with what Doug said above.

    In simple terms:
    If I am not confident enough she will reject me. If she is not beautiful enough I will reject her.

    We will never get to relationship building because we never left the starting grid. Once we are on the move other things come into play.

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  297. on May 27, 2009 at 5:44 pm doug1

    Default User–

    Very insightful comment.

    I agree.

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  298. on May 27, 2009 at 5:49 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    I’m not getting how you all define “confidence” in a woman. Self-Assurance? Being an extrovert?

    I do know this much: alleged “confidence” amongst lower-class women comes in the form of what they call “‘tude.” And it’s not pretty.

    “Tude” means women wearing those trashy t-shirts that say “I have the Pussy, So I Make the Rules” and “You Call Me A Bitch Like It’s a Bad Thing.” No one ever calls women on these things. If you’re a guy wearing an obnoxious shirt, someone will punch you eventually.

    If this is what passes for confidence these days, give me some modesty and insecurity, please.

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  299. on May 27, 2009 at 5:49 pm Default User

    aliasclio

    I’ve been trying to convince them of it for almost two years now…

    Along with good looks (of course), I like patience in a woman.

    🙂

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  300. on May 27, 2009 at 5:52 pm gig

    @Joe

    There is book, by some english guy, “God’s middle finger”, about his trip to the main drug producing area in Mexico, the Sierra Madre Ocidental

    He also finds that drug dealers were the main clients of trannies, because they wanted to few dominated. But it is exactly the same situation of Lady Rain’s attorney

    But hose are not real alphas in the sense that they can only attract gold diggers, without income/status due to their job, they are unable to score. It is not unusual for those guys to be dominated by their mothers. Be the mexican drug dealer or the New York attorney. Someone pointed me the madonná/whore complex, it is true. google it

    those pseudo alphas may be submissives in bed. because they are not true alphas.

    I have a friend that fits your bill. The guy is amazing at work, a leader of men. But he is unable to approach girls that are not introduced to him by common friends and he once came to me to say how nice it is when girls finger him.

    He is able to score beautiful girls. But then they lose interst on him once his submissive side appears. The current GF left a couple weeks ago to Europe, where her family has an apartment in a very cool city. Her explanation: “the apartment was empty, so she needed to spend a few weeks there in order to keep it tidy”. He is in love with her. She is probably now being fucked by some kosovar street vendor

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  301. on May 27, 2009 at 6:01 pm Joe

    Gig, good stuff. Some of what you say about dating issues definitely applies to my ex’s clients. She did however also have quite a few with healthy dating lives and some even married too who kept their submissive fetish a total secret from the regular women in their lives. These guys had regular dominant sex with these women and enjoyed it (or at least claimed to) but just had another itch that needed scratching too that they didn’t want to reveal to the women. So they used a dominatrix for that. They never actually had sex with the dominatrix though. That was a no-no. I think you’re write about madonna/whore stuff for sure across the baord.

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  302. on May 27, 2009 at 6:08 pm xsplat

    As a switch, I might have some insight into a man playing submissive. There is nothing alpha or beta about it. Those classifications are irrelevant. It’s just a role, a style, a way. A way to give in to the receptive side.

    Everyone likes to be on the receptive end from time to time – be it in getting a massage, a blowjob, or any other fine treatment. It’s neither alpha nor beta to receive.

    But a man who can only play submissive would creep me out a bit – it would mean to me that he is stuck in habit, and has let the roles become fixed as his personality. A lover is foremost fluid.

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  303. on May 27, 2009 at 7:49 pm Virgin@40

    Thank you Holywood for answering my thoughts so thoroughly. However, I have some other thoughts that you may clarify or not:

    “The game’s over here, move on.”

    Certainly I recognise that you are being reasonable, and I’d certainly like not to be so enchanted by this women. However, the truth holds that I am so and care a lot for her. It will not change in the following years. That also does not mean that I have the prospects of living to her or that I think I’ll have sex with her or otherwise engage in a more “vivid” relationship with her despite the fact that I anxiously want it and would enjoy every second of it.

    My thing is, given all this, I know that it is not that black dead. One has to know of a theory of evolving from LJBF to Lets just fuck marry and have children… right?
    I mean, what can one possibly do in the direction of turning an assexual relationship into a more sexually dynamic one. Making the girl who sees you as a friend to pursuit you, however unlikely it is.

    “No you gain ATTRACTION first.”

    Fair enough. But does that mean what exacly? Knowing her as I do, she will never feel atracted to me because I have not what she wants to offer her (status, other girls wanting me, somewhat exciting life, much money, etc). She’s a good girl but I happen to have noticed that what she mainly wants in a man is him to be a “better” boyfriend than the all the other ones so that the other girls look up to her.
    This is, in my opinion, very childish and will soon change.

    So, what does attraction means? To my understandment it means a girl wanting to know you or wanting to know something more about you. It also envolves you not showing yourself as non-boyfiend-material rather than showing yourself as boyfriend-material.

    In this particular case, and I will probabily generalise it because it is my preception it is so to other girls as well, I found that she (and other girls) wants to know more about me (attraction) when I take some steps. Namely “high valluing myself”, acting in a more confident manner, build a little “trut” or “compatibility” with the girl, and don’t look nervous or “liking-her-too-much”. Is this attraction? If not, what is it? Outter game only?

    “Neging a girl is NOT pointing out her defects”

    Yes, it is not. However it can *also* be so, right? I can’t remember a neg on this ten that was not situational, actually. My basic and non situational recorrent neg is so poor as being the “dumb blonde” stereotype. Only now, really now, do I give a thought about it.
    But, to beuatifful girls in general, is it not to highlight their defects a great way to show them they are not that great? Devalorising her and valluing you?

    “Your not going to fuck this “ten”.”

    Lol… I know… unforunetly. I am not expecting that anyway nor will I live for her.
    But I want to keep her around, the closer the better. I know it is very unlikely for me to find a girl like her again and I know I will continue to really like her / love her for years on. But I want to know and have intercourse with other girls as well. Maybe in that way, she’ll be more insignificant… though I doubt it.

    “Learn to love women for who they are and what they are and accept you’ll never change them.”

    But… that’s what I’ve been doing…

    Be cool.

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  304. on May 27, 2009 at 7:49 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Thanks to those who threw in their opinions—all the input was or will be useful. Now, down to particulars:

    Rum: Why? Because she’s there. More accurately, to address an asterisk on the record, to right a past wrong or at least get a fighting chance at a situation I (obviously) had no comprehension of years ago. That, or vaguely sensing a target of opportunity.

    Max from Australia: No worries! I didn’t even get a number, and your concerns about an increase in core insecurity are noted.

    Days of Broken Arrows: I appreciate your past experience, as well as your views on past and present status. Your whole secondhand respect thing is something I hadn’t ever particularly considered before.

    Redefinition in this instance is probably impossible—I agree with you. There simply aren’t enough opportunities to do it, even if possible in other respects. Perhaps if I had the looks of the young Robert Redford along with the financial resources of say a Morgan or a Vanderbilt etc., such a redefinition would be possible outside of F. Scott Fitzgerald. Even if it was possible, I’m not entirely sure it’d be worth the considerable effort. You have, in other words, made a rather compelling argument.

    Master Dogen: Forgotten about; slate wiped clean and that particular compartment welded shut.

    I didn’t have the cinematic thing in mind when I put the initial post together—I was trying to see if there might be an opportunity to be developed for my own benefit, but I see your point. If I had to attach a cinematic example to this situation, I’d suggest perhaps several people sitting in a boardroom, Wall Street style, trying to, as I said, determine if there was a opportunity for my benefit. On the other hand, who doesn’t want to be Doug Flutie throwing the hail Mary? Although, it must be said that Flutie’s receivers had a mutual goal in mind, and that counts for something.

    This video seems to be an excess of sap, schmaltz and sweat for no measurable gain. Great Lifetime network trailer material, but certainly not something I’d do.

    doug1: Part of the mystery was due to the fact that I was your usual chuckle-headed teenager with about zero sense of the world around me. At this point, it’s moot, but your insights into their behaviors and mindset are useful.

    Again, thanks to everyone for their input. Like NBC’s PSAs used to say, “The More You Know…”

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  305. on May 27, 2009 at 7:58 pm Virgin@40

    “in the bars I go to, I estimate that 75% of the guys don’t approach girls. There is a widespread mindset among guys here that say “look at my credit card bill! I spent R$ XXX in bars/nightclubs!! I am having lots of fun!!!” ignoring that silly stuff about kissing or fucking girls.”

    So true Gig. I know “alpha-ish” guys who will not aproach in bars or clubs. Mainly because they go there to have fun with a given group. Or maybe just because I am too young.

    I also have notinced that girls do indeed aproach more men than men aproach women.

    Also, does anyone know how to work on eye contact? Because, if a girl happens to make eye contact to me, I’ll be giving her creepy stares for the next 5 minutes. It’s not good. It has already evolved to a “the first to deviate the look loses” competition. It’s really bad.
    How to notice eye contact as a IOI and what not?

    And mainly, what to do when you recieve eye contact?

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  306. on May 27, 2009 at 9:15 pm Default User

    Regarding your 10. And this is probably good advice in general:

    “Don’t let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner.”
    [From: Heat]

    In other words sometimes you have to walk away. You do not have to pretend you are not disappointed. You do have to accept the result.

    You do not have to cease all contact with her, but you should cut back big time. Work on your game. Find another girl. In doing this you may not win her heart, but you will gain her respect. She will also become more comfortable around you if she senses you have other options.

    The willingness to walk away is a powerful confidence booster. Once you realize I don’t need this, it is amazing how more calm and focused you become.

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  307. on May 27, 2009 at 9:47 pm aoefe

    @ doug

    “Rather most male submissives are clear betas, though sometimes high earning. Some accountants, some kinds of nerdy type lawyers, and so on. More usually clerks etc. They are very rarely truly aggressive and dominant outside the bedroom”

    Two experiences.

    One I had one meeting only with a man who told me he’d hired a Dominatrix to dominate him so he’d have a better idea of how it would feel when he dominated a woman. I was disgusted by his description of how hard he came. Can you say too much information?

    Two I dated a Doctor for four months hoping he was something other than what he appeared to be. He wrote the most beautiful, funny, intelligent, heartfelt emails (right after date 1), but was quite shy in person. I hoped he’d come out of his shell. We waited awhile before having sex and when we did it was not good. It turned out he wanted me to dominate him. Being the submissive type I thought trying this (sexual domination) would be a submissive act. Failure. I was very turned off. I ended the relationship. I think you would agree with me that he was Beta in behavior outside the bedroom. (my bad for staying mostly because he was a doctor and women are conditioned to seek those)

    When you put both experiences together however they don’t give you a clear enough picture to say its only Beta’s who seek sexual submission.

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  308. on May 27, 2009 at 9:57 pm Virgin@40

    He he!

    Its 3:00 Am (night).
    I just spent the last hour talking to her online. She was the one to initiate the conversation. I mannged to schedule a lunch next week. It is supposed to go a whole bunch of people (7 or 8). I think that if there go 4 it is great.

    But what I liked the most was the: “I don’t see the majority of them for what? 2 months?”

    Her: “I don’t see neither of them for one year almost”
    Me: “This is complicated”
    She: What is complicated?
    Me: (Making funny) Nobody likes us…
    She: “I always knew nobody liked me there.” (where do you see a 10 saying this man?)
    Me: loool

    I was tempted to go to say “You bitch, how dare you saying that if I’m here with you, don’t I count or something?”
    But then I figured it would be too Beta or something and she has said goodbye for over a quarter of an hour.

    Anyway. You people probabily do not understand but few events would give me so much confidence to find another girl than this. Imagine if I were to see her eyes.

    I am dependent on her into a “spiritual” dimension. It sucks, but I know my probabilities with her are close to none. But it just makes me feel so good that she’s around… I probabily am not expressing myself well. I am a beta both spiritually and genetically. I can be Alpha mentally only… like all learned alphas.

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  309. on May 27, 2009 at 9:58 pm xsplat

    Oh, and about playing submissive from time to time, I think a lover does his other a disservice he does not.

    Most women enjoy being on top from time to time. And most are also able to learn a lot more things they never knew they loved. Consider music – the more styles you have available to you, the fuller and freer and more complete you are. Allowing and fostering the dominant in a woman is a lovers gift.

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  310. on May 27, 2009 at 10:14 pm gig

    suck her pussy once in a while, before she gives you a blowjob. that’s submissiveness we can believe in.

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  311. on May 27, 2009 at 10:25 pm xsplat

    Trading sexual favors wasn’t quite what I had in mind, GIG. I was thinking more along the line of the woman being allowed, even encouraged, to from time to time act vicious.

    Are you aware that pain during sex is highly erotic? It releases all sorts of hormones, and the pain stops being uncomfortable, but flips over into extreme heightened erotic sensation. Why only spank the woman? Why only bit her nipples? That wouldn’t be fair.

    So much of great sex the mundane people consider taboo.

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  312. on May 27, 2009 at 10:26 pm aoefe

    @xsplat

    I think the time to time thing may work, but it’s not balanced or even close to it and one is in the ‘wrong’ role for their personality then it’s no fun.

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  313. on May 27, 2009 at 10:31 pm xsplat

    Aoefe, when I’m playing submissive, it’s actually me who is in control, still running the fuck, or whatever else is going on.

    Sexual behaviours are learned. There is no “you” that is natural. Role play, role play, role play. Repeat the variations that are fun. Invent new ones. It’s a bottomless jazz of possibilities.

    When you were five, you liked your mothers music. You liked all music. By the time you were a young teen, your tasted froze to equal that of your immediate peer group. As you aged your mind became more fluid again, and you were able to enjoy fresh styles.

    That’s sex. You have no innate style.

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  314. on May 27, 2009 at 10:37 pm xsplat

    Oh, Aofe, I hadn’t realized that you are a girl. Most women suck at improv. Only very rarely have I let any girl run the fuck. The ones I did had talent.

    On that subject, I once broke up with a girl because she was a lousy lover. She begged me to keep dating her, and I agreed, on the condition that she would be my sex-pupil. Her studies turned her into a virtuoso. She could have me shaking uncontrollably.

    Most girls, I run the fuck – girls suck at improv.

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  315. on May 27, 2009 at 10:44 pm aoefe

    xsplat

    “girls suck at improv”

    Full agreement.

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  316. on May 27, 2009 at 10:49 pm gig

    pain during sex is obviously exciting for women. “beat me”, “fuck me hard” , “make me scraem”, etc are quite common among women.

    the only pain I have felt was due to excessive number of blowjobs and fucking, so my dick started aching, it became red, inflamated.

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  317. on May 27, 2009 at 10:57 pm xsplat

    Gig

    the only pain I have felt was due to

    Maybe you haven’t trained your sexuality to be able to be extremely heightened. Try to not come, and scream during your peak. You’ll likely find your peak rises higher than the orgasm you were about to have. It can become so intense that there is no differentiation between pleasure and pain – it’s just intense. When you re-wire your sex like that, you can start to appreciate intensity in other forms – it shoots you straight up.

    It’s a shame people fuck and come, fuck and come – much greater subtlety can occur when a man can roll with and manage his energies. Rocketship, as opposed to speedboat.

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  318. on May 27, 2009 at 11:00 pm aliasclio

    Days of BA, I don’t know what other people may mean by “female confidence”. What I mean is quite ordinary things like being able to smile at people of either sex, being able to take part in conversations without being paralysed by self-consciousness, being able to walk up to join a group of people (strangers or friends of yours) at a party with ease and grace.

    I was extremely shy in my teens and all those things were very hard for me. I had a dreadful habit of blurting out tactless comments, or talking about things (like Shakespeare etc) that bored or annoyed people. As I grew less shy and awkward, I found I got far more male attention. It’s possible that I looked better too – at about the same time I gave up glasses (which don’t suit me) for contact lenses, and began to carry myself differently. But I think the confidence made the most difference, because men didn’t have to worry that they’d find me tongue-tied if they began to talk to me.

    Based on my own experience, I’d say that confidence (of the kind I describe here) can be almost as important to a woman as to a man.

    Clio

    p.s. Lady Rain, I didn’t call you slutty. I said your site was “skanky”, meaning it looks trashy and in poor taste. Looking at it, I would never have expected you to be the thoughtful person you have shown us here. I think it’s a poor advertisement for yourself – and it is an advertisement, make no mistake.

    Even if you have only one mildly naughty photo of yourself up, there’s lots of risque allusions, and one of your “friends” (or whatever myspace calls them) has a photo up that shows a woman apparently about to perform oral sex on a man. In my view, this kind of thing is likely to drive away quality men. But – I’m much older than you are and the world is different today – and anyway, you say you don’t want what I would think of as “quality” men, so what does it matter?

    All the same, I wish you well.

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  319. on May 27, 2009 at 11:28 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Virginia Gentleman:

    Thanks for the response. I wasn’t necessarily being 100 percent negative about your quest. I was trying to explain why it’s usually more difficult to reinvent youself to someone from the old days.

    I meant to ask you, though: around how old are you and how do you usually do with women? And what celebrity do you resemble?

    I ask because there are a number of factor at play here.

    One thing I forgot to say (which has been said many times here) is that as you and your crush age, your stock goes WAY up and hers goes down. A single, male lawyer who is around 35 is a major, major catch — the best around, I’d argue. A single female lawyer at age 35 is possibly the worst prospect for a wife in history.

    The above might be significant.

    Unlike the others here, I don’t have a problem with singling out one woman. But I think timing needs to be right. If you can wait it out till you’re both over 30, you’ll be “redefined” by the simple fact that you’re..a guy.

    Just make sure to stay thin and have sex with many many women along the way.

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  320. on May 27, 2009 at 11:35 pm doug1

    aoefe

    interesting stories. Intelligent interesting stories.

    You. That’s YOU. You turn me on. Will you flirt with me, damn you?

    Stop being so damn goodie two shoes. (And stop worrying about gregi. He’s been decimated, re attacking me on these things, in case you don’t know. (Not on everything, and I wouldn’t want that either.))

    Bhetti has told everyone numerous times its ok (gulp for her, but that’s hot for her). I’m not going to betray her either aeofe.

    But can’t we have fun together, getting a little online play sexual? it would make jealous green eyed Bhetti happy in her way, me happy for sure, and perhaps maybe you? Wow, maybe a threesome, of one sort or another!!!

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  321. on May 27, 2009 at 11:53 pm aoefe

    @doug

    “Will you flirt with me, damn you”

    I’m never one to resist an order from a man I’m attracted to (yep that’s you.)

    How was that for flirt?? I need feedback please.

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  322. on May 27, 2009 at 11:58 pm Thursday

    Clio:

    1. A bad pair of glasses can seriously impair a girl’s looks. This was probably more of a problem than you think.

    2. Looking friendly and approachable means that more men will get up the courage to talk to you.

    3. If a girl is too shy to talk back, an inexperienced man may assume she is not interested and leave. (An experienced man will read a girl’s eyes and body language and will know to carry the conversation until she gets comfortable.)

    4. It is possible to weird guys out by saying particulary stupid stuff.

    5. A more animated person tends to attract more attention.

    2 and 3 though tend to only weed out the betas, and no confidence is not nearly as important to women as men. If she gets out at all, it is only a matter of time before a shy, but pretty woman will attract the attention of an attractive man. What _will_ prevent such a woman from attracting attention is working and socializing exclusively in female and family dominated places like schools, hospitals, and small churches.

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  323. on May 28, 2009 at 12:07 am doug1

    aoefe–

    How was that for flirt?? I need feedback please.

    It’s very weak sauce but a good direction to go in. And it’s happy making.

    Canada, right?

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  324. on May 28, 2009 at 12:12 am aoefe

    @doug

    “Canada, right?”

    Are you saying the frigid response is a clear indicator of the country?

    Baby you make my booty shake when you ‘post’ me the way you do.

    What country now??

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  325. on May 28, 2009 at 12:15 am doug1

    aoefe–

    I don’t mean to make you feel threatened and defensive.

    Challenged maybe at times but not that. Why does your country make you feel that way?

    Anyway, I’m not against you. I’m for finding fun.

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  326. on May 28, 2009 at 12:21 am aoefe

    @doug

    Oooops, I was totally laughing when I wrote it having fun….guess I have to work on my flirt eh! Not defensive here and TOTALLY enjoying you!!

    Oh wait…are you running some Game? (pauses to think for a…nano second…decides it doesn’t matter).

    And as for Country never defensive on it, but wonder why the guess?? Really, really curious why you’d think it?

    So keep on funnin wit me, k?

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  327. on May 28, 2009 at 12:23 am doug1

    aeofe–

    Actually, you know. Rereading, I fucked up. A lot. Big time.

    It wasn’t weak sauce. At all. I don’t think I’d read what you said. It wouldn’t be like me to have responded that way to that.

    I hope you’ll forgive me.

    I did fuck up.

    Really I did. Because that was strong sauce indeed.

    I’m just telling the truth.

    Have heart. This is sincere.

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  328. on May 28, 2009 at 12:25 am doug1

    aoefe

    Cross posts hilarity.

    Can you tell I’m into you?

    I gotta got to bed. You’re delicsh.

    Baby.

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  329. on May 28, 2009 at 12:26 am aoefe

    @doug

    I haven’t lost heart. 🙂

    Ok, now imagining all/most of the men (and some women) rolling their eyes at the exchange we’ve just had. And I say… live a little.

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  330. on May 28, 2009 at 1:07 am maurice

    not at all – it’s adorable. doug gets all the e-booty. 🙂

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  331. on May 28, 2009 at 2:11 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Well, I’m glad Doug has paired off with aoefe — who I didn’t even realize was a woman.

    That leaves Clio up for grabs, so to speak.

    If anyone wants to attempt that, I suggest studying up on “Comedy of Errors.” Get it? I’m foreshadowing, just like old’ Billy Shakes. hisself!!

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  332. on May 28, 2009 at 7:40 am Default User

    Days of Broken Arrows,maurice

    Hey guys don’t worry. I believe Biting Beaver is not taken.

    Underneath that attack dog personality I bet she is like a little lost puppy.
    [rabid maybe, but still a little lost puppy]

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  333. on May 28, 2009 at 7:47 am Default User

    Emerald aoefe

    Canada? CANADA?

    We know that is not correct don’t we?

    Canada, sheesh!

    Weak sauce indeed.
    [and not a rich warm stew]

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  334. on May 28, 2009 at 8:12 am Default User

    aliasclio

    On the slim chance this thread is not completely dead here is another description of the confidence/looks thing for men and women.

    If you imagine the range of values for looks and confidence going from one to ten, the cheap and nasty graph below shows the range of acceptable values. These are the values where mutual attraction is likely to happen.

    – Confidence here means social skills, lack of shyness, self-esteem, etc.

    – The graph may not line up, but should be readable.

    = are the acceptable values needed for attraction. Outside that range you are in trouble.

    Looks

    Men: –========
    Fem: —-======

    Confidence

    Men: ——====
    Fem: —=====–

    Summary
    Fairly ugly guys can still attract women if they have enough confidence/game/status.

    Fairly unconfident/nerdy/insecure women can still attract men if they have looks. If they are attractive men will try and work past that shyness or put up with some clingyness.

    An unconfident man is out of the game. Even if he approaches he will likely not secure attraction.

    An unattractive woman is out of the game, men will not approach her. She may still receive the benefit of chivalrous action but will not receive sexual advances.

    Very high confidence in a woman is not attractive in the same way it is for a man. It is not necessarily a bad thing, just not needed. It may even put off some men from approaching (unless she is very good looking). In the absence of offsetting good looks men will likely choose the woman that might be more receptive.
    [This is not about confidence. It is about efficiency. Given two equally attractive women it makes sense to chose the one that will likely be more open to his advance. Even without a bitchy attitude her confidence might make her seem more difficult]

    Way too much analysis but I have just finished breakfast and I am feeling inspired.

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  335. on May 28, 2009 at 10:27 am aliasclio

    Default User writes: Fairly unconfident/nerdy/insecure women can still attract men if they have looks. If they are attractive men will try and work past that shyness or put up with some clingyness.

    Good looks can be effectively disguised by extreme shyness. I was regularly called “ugly” in elementary school and high school, although I wasn’t fat. In fact, apart from bouts of sporadic pudginess between ages 11 and 15, I was extremely slender, had clear skin and even features. The glasses didn’t help, and it’s hard to be sure if they weren’t to blame for uglifying me…Still, other girls who wore glasses were far more appealing to boys than I was, and men here always boast that they can see through superficial quirks like bad hair, glasses, etc.

    There are other factors involved here too. For one thing, some teenage girls (not me, ever), are so painfully shy that they feel self-conscious even trying to improve their appearance, fearing they’ll be laughed at, by other girls if not by boys, and sometimes this tendency carries on into adulthood. Watch a few episodes of What Not to Wear (the American version), if you’re in any doubt of that.

    For another, a shy woman tends to be less approachable than a confident one, contrary to your assumption above. Thursday is closer to the mark about female confidence: a woman too shy to talk may give a signal to inexperienced men that she isn’t interested.

    Incidentally, that was one reason why the men I dated (when they finally began to ask me out), tended to be rather dominant types: men who were awkward or shy themselves found me too difficult to approach, although I was less shy by that time than I had been as a teenage wallflower.

    Clio

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  336. on May 28, 2009 at 10:38 am Days of Broken Arrows

    “Good looks can be effectively disguised by extreme shyness. I was regularly called “ugly” in elementary school and high school, although I wasn’t fat.”

    Sometimes this has less to do with looks and instead is about the fact that some girls come from families who don’t fress them trendy enough, style their hair etc. Materialism matters, even to the very young.

    Looking back at old school pics, I was struck by how some of the least popular girls had the best facial bone structure but were done in by petty reasons. This one had a mom they thought was crazy; that one dressed like an old woman; the other one developed too early.

    I don’t believe kids are innocent angels. I think kids are cruel by nature and need to be socialized not to be evil.

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  337. on May 28, 2009 at 10:47 am PA

    I was regularly called “ugly” in elementary school and high school, although I wasn’t fat.

    There must be somethign going on in the teenage dynamic that adults don’t understand.

    I recall that there were wallflower/unpopular girls in my middle school and high school (though less so in high school, as we matured past the savage age of 13/14) who weren’t at all ugly, at least as I see them in the yearbook today. Some in fact were quite cute.

    Does a girl’s positions on the female hierarchy — which I assume is based in large part on her intra-female social assertiveness — inform boys’ impressions of these girls’ attractivenes?

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  338. on May 28, 2009 at 10:50 am PA

    Looks like my comment echoes DOBA’s: crazy non-looks-related factors sinking otherwise pretty girls in early teen years.

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  339. on May 28, 2009 at 10:54 am PA

    I don’t believe kids are innocent angels. I think kids are cruel by nature and need to be socialized not to be evil.

    Early teens are savage.

    I was on the receiving end of this when I came to the US in my early teens and spoke with an awkward accent and wore cheap clothes to school.

    I was also on the perpetrating end of this when I mercilessly teased a boy who acted oddly because he was shellshocked from his mom having just died.

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  340. on May 28, 2009 at 11:05 am gig

    I don’t believe kids are innocent angels. I think kids are cruel by nature and need to be socialized not to be evil.

    true. kids in the 10-15 range are sociopaths.

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  341. on May 28, 2009 at 11:20 am Days of Broken Arrows

    I actually found kids ages 10-15 pretty tolerable. The real cruelty, I found, happened when I was ages 6-9.

    There was a weird incident at camp the summer after second grade I’ll never forget. I walked into the locker room and all the kids were standing around one of the smaller boys pointing and chanting “Girls saw you naked!! Girls saw you naked!”

    The boy in the middle of the circle was completely naked, hysterically sobbing. Apparently when he’d taken his clothes off they pushed him outside or something. The taunting got worse and worse and the naked kid collapsed on the floor hysterical in tears. He had no way out — he was surrounded by boys who had made a circle and (if I remember correctly) theratening him and pushing him down.

    Finally, a counselor came in, scooped the naked kid up and started screaming at everyone. I don’t remember what happened after that.

    I always wondered what happened to the kid in the middle of all this, and if the memories of being bullied and shamed like that stayed with him and messed him up. Since I was actually shorter than this kid, I quickly changed and got the f*ck out of there, figuring I would be next.

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  342. on May 28, 2009 at 11:25 am Default User

    aliasclio

    I actually agree with you (and Thursday). My points are just on the relative levels. A slightly shy girl will probably be OK. A slightly shy man is toast.

    Remember I said “fairly.” A “fairly” shy man will really be floundering. He is less likely to receive help from the woman (unless he is very good looking). The somewhat shy girl may receive help from the man.

    I never denied the potential unapproachability of shy women; it was more a case that she has some hope. A man of the same shyness might as well consider becoming a monk, because he has no hope.

    On average we are all average. That is the average man will have average looks and average confidence. The average woman will have average looks and average confidence. She has more than enough confidence for attraction, he has barely enough (will easily be out done by other more “alpha” men).

    I do not disagree on the difficulty extremely shy girls have. It is about the same that merely moderately shy men have. In other words confidence is of some importance to a woman, it is critical to a man.

    What is interesting is that you were able to (eventually) attract a fairly confident (alpha) guys. A man of equivalent shyness/history would likely never attract a very attractive woman (I know love is strange and all kinds of things can happen, but we are talking averages here). I have dated the kind of shy woman you mention. I understand the difficulty in reading them. The thing is that I did approach them; I did give them a chance. The women were no shyer than I was but the difference is I was never given the chance (“you are nice but…”).

    With some of those shy women I was able to turn things around. By taking a chance against unclear signals I was able to let her express her interest in me. No woman ever did that for me because no woman could feel attraction for a man who lacked that confidence (in the same way I cannot feel attraction for an ugly woman, not matter how nice/sweet she is).

    Again, some degree of confidence is important for both men and women. However it is vital for man.

    I am glad that you lost that shy girl because it is so much better to be a full and active participant in the dating/romantic world. As a former (very) shy guy I feel your (former) pain.

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  343. on May 28, 2009 at 11:27 am Default User

    aliasclio

    Re: previous post
    I need an editor!

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  344. on May 28, 2009 at 11:40 am PA

    — Finally, a counselor came in, scooped the naked kid up and started screaming at everyone.

    Adults in these situations need to be empowered to slap/strike the offenders. Hard.

    — I always wondered what happened to the kid in the middle of all this, and if the memories of being bullied and shamed like that stayed with him and messed him up.

    My o m e g a friend Ace went through some nasty experiences growing up. Some of it doled out by me and our buddies (though in our defense, we did it more in the spirit of mischief and horseplay than cruelty, unlike what he got from others.)

    One thing he’ll insist on is that for a young boy to be systematically bullied by others has the psychological impact of a girl the same age being repeatedly raped or sexually abused.

    Ace is a high-energy guy with a devilish sense of humor but when he says this, he gets tensed up like he’s having a PTSD.

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  345. on May 28, 2009 at 11:51 am aliasclio

    Does a girl’s positions on the female hierarchy — which I assume is based in large part on her intra-female social assertiveness — inform boys’ impressions of these girls’ attractivenes?

    I suspect this could be true in school – I mean, that a girl’s rank in female social hierarchy may help to determine a boy’s perception of her. There are cases, though, of boys (extremely popular or sometimes “maverick” outliers) who choose an unpopular girl to date, and so alter her rank upwards. Boys of average popularity find this hard, of course.

    Once out of high school, a woman’s popularity with other women may still determine her dating chances, but in a different way. Young single women do NOT, in general, go to clubs or bars alone; it isn’t safe. If they want to go to such places, they need to have female friends. If they don’t, they won’t be asked to join the group at the Friday night watering hole. This holds true both in university and office life.

    It was actually a bit of a dating handicap for me, as I often found it hard to form strong friendships with women even when I ceased to be shy. My interests were too different, and I was too argumentative by nature, which most women dislike. I’m much better “adjusted” now, but it’s still sometimes a challenge for one who is somewhat politically incorrect.

    Interesting to get some non-posturing comments on this subject from the men here, and we’re even on topic, more or less.

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  346. on May 28, 2009 at 11:52 am Thursday

    men here always boast that they can see through superficial quirks like bad hair, glasses, etc.

    Actually, it’s only me and Roissy who make that claim for ourselves and, while I won’t speak for him, I was definitely less perceptive when I was younger and hadn’t been exposed to a lot of classic movies or photography. Furthermore, some men are more influenced by current fashion than others.

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  347. on May 28, 2009 at 12:01 pm Default User

    aliasclio

    …and we’re even on topic, more or less.

    You know I was just going to raise a point about the difference between black and white shyness…

    LikeLike


  348. on May 28, 2009 at 12:04 pm Default User

    aliasclio

    I just clicked your homepage.

    So it was you that gave us the Byronic game (The Byronic Bad Boy). I mentioned that in an earlier thread.

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  349. on May 28, 2009 at 12:28 pm Tupac Chopra

    DOBA:

    The boy in the middle of the circle was completely naked, hysterically sobbing. Apparently when he’d taken his clothes off they pushed him outside or something. The taunting got worse and worse and the naked kid collapsed on the floor hysterical in tears. He had no way out — he was surrounded by boys who had made a circle and (if I remember correctly) theratening him and pushing him down.

    Sounds like this blog!

    Hey, David Alexander, come over here…

    HA HAWWWW!!!

    LikeLike


  350. on May 28, 2009 at 12:30 pm Tupac Chopra

    Clio:

    and men here always boast that they can see through superficial quirks like bad hair, glasses, etc.

    Only the men of experience and taste.

    The others as you say are probably more influenced by agreements among the herd as to who is socially popular.

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  351. on May 28, 2009 at 12:36 pm Tupac Chopra

    PA:

    I was also on the perpetrating end of this when I mercilessly teased a boy who acted oddly because he was shellshocked from his mom having just died.

    Jesus, PA,and I thought I was bad.

    I remember in elementary school (must have been 2nd or 3rd grade, tops) hearing from some authority figureor another to never use the N-word around black people. But I had no understanding of the meaning or significance of it. It was just an out-of-context rule to be followed.

    Naturally the first thing I did was walk up to the only black classmate of mine (whom I knew as a friend from pre-school) and blurted out “NIG-GER” just to see what would happen.

    That was my first but not last experience in being sent to see the principal.

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  352. on May 28, 2009 at 12:41 pm Tupac Chopra

    PA:

    Some of it doled out by me and our buddies (though in our defense, we did it more in the spirit of mischief and horseplay than cruelty, unlike what he got from others.)

    “It was the saying of Bion, that though the boys throw stones at frogs in sport, yet the frogs do not die in sport, but in earnest” – Plutarch

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  353. on May 28, 2009 at 12:42 pm Tupac Chopra

    Clio:

    My interests were too different, and I was too argumentative by nature

    What do you suppose it was that compelled you to be argumentative with others?

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  354. on May 28, 2009 at 1:00 pm PA

    “It was the saying of Bion, that though the boys throw stones at frogs in sport, yet the frogs do not die in sport, but in earnest” – Plutarch

    Indeed. Ace is still pissed off about one of us (not me) snatching one of his (Ace’s) shoes and throwing it into the girls’ bathroom. He went in there and retrieved it, redfaced and ready to kill.

    But on balance he was well served by hanging out with us. We were on the high-end of beta you could say — not in the popular elite, but for the most part liked and generally respected, and a few of us, including me, had girlfriends and played sports.

    Thanks to his association with us, after 8th grade, Ace was pretty much left alone by the general population of the school. He still got shit but it was only from a few aggressive individuals, and on an isolated basis.

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  355. on May 28, 2009 at 1:22 pm aliasclio

    What do you suppose it was that compelled you to be argumentative with others?

    I disagreed with most of the people around me about a number of serious issues, and felt a moral obligation to voice my views.

    But part of the problem was that I didn’t understand what was considered “argument” among girls and women. I thought of an argument as a sustained, reasoned attempt to prove a point, so it never occurred to me that merely voicing a disagreement on some point (a movie, a song) might constitute “argument” in some circles, and that an “argument” of any kind would, in their view, be likely to lead to a fight.

    I don’t want to make it sound as if I were blameless in all this, though. I could be incredibly tactless, and I had no idea how to talk in circles of girls. I’d spent too much time among boys in early childhood (always abroad, with my brothers and their friends), and though never a tomboy, I’d learned to talk the way they did, loudly, boisterously and not worrying if I was interrupting someone or changing the subject. That’s a TERRIBLE mistake among girls and women, and will get you ostracized very quickly.

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  356. on May 28, 2009 at 1:34 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    I think personality and intellegence are largely genetic and somewhat tied together.

    Smart, curious people have opinions and want them know. Dullards have nothing to say. It’s a shame idiots rule in school.

    I can see my above idea played out amongst my relatives; some of us have a self-righteous streak that seems to come from my maternal grandmother. Most of these people are now in the arts or teach at colleges.

    Meanwhile, my dad’s side of the family (the stupid side) has a bunch of people with no opinions on anything. They sit and watch sports and stare into screens. They used to work at car dealerships but now they don’t work at all.

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  357. on May 28, 2009 at 1:47 pm Default User

    aliasclio

    …I thought of an argument as a sustained, reasoned attempt to prove a point, so it never occurred to me that merely voicing a disagreement on some point (a movie, a song) might constitute “argument” in some circles, and that an “argument” of any kind would, in their view, be likely to lead to a fight.

    My theory is that most of the regular female posters here are atypical in some way (no disrespect intended).
    [I am kind of proud of my misfit roots]

    My guess is, that like many of the female regulars here, you are a “logical” type. You are probably a Myers-Briggs INTx, possibly INTJ. In any case you are likely a Thinking (prefer logic) rather than Feeling (prefer empathy) type. Women tend to be Feelers (about 65%), men tend to be Thinkers (about 65%).

    If you want you can take a online test:
    http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

    PS
    First time I saw your name, I read it as alasclio. I wondered what was wrong with clio.

    –
    Alias (or alas) Default

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  358. on May 28, 2009 at 1:54 pm Tupac Chopra

    Clio:

    I disagreed with most of the people around me about a number of serious issues, and felt a moral obligation to voice my views…I’d learned to talk the way they did, loudly, boisterously and not worrying if I was interrupting someone or changing the subject.

    Now that’s the kind of female “confidence” that does no one any favors.

    Hmmm…perhaps I was wrong about us Clio. You sound like the kind of woman who would give me lip. Not good.

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  359. on May 28, 2009 at 2:12 pm maurice

    @tupac – don’t deny your love for clio.

    @clio – sounds like your upbringing among boys, logical thinking and “masculine” conversation style makes you more comfortable among men than women? for companionship as well as sex/attraction. how would you relate that to your varying attraction to alpha males versus the more beta types with the same traits, the ones you likely encouter in academia and goverment? that is, contrast it with how you think the girly-girls respond.

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  360. on May 28, 2009 at 2:27 pm doug1

    aliasclio–

    There are cases, though, of boys (extremely popular or sometimes “maverick” outliers) who choose an unpopular girl to date, and so alter her rank upwards. Boys of average popularity find this hard, of course.

    I’ve done this. With the right kind of girl it can create super loyalty / devotion. To the point of her allowing you to do one sided playing, some, while still respecting her.

    This was actually the case with my main gf in college, who moved into my RA suite with me in the sorority house turned theme house we were in. She didn’t have real low status before but it was sort of middling, based upon her too low self image looks wise and semi shyness (not severe and she could be and was brought out of that by me). She’d been a late blooming athlete / tomboy type, at a time when girl athletes weren’t considered as hot as they can be now. She was an 8 by the time I grabbed her, but not a primping 8 – until me. Then after a while (it took some work on her) big time and wowed people. She like you wasn’t great at lots of girl friendships and hierarchies but she did tend to have one really good girl friend. After becoming my acknowleded and live together RA gf she was sucked up to all the time by other girls, and loved it, shyly at first, then beamingly.

    This was a fabulous position for me to be in. I wasn’t quite as analytical about it at the time. But almost.

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  361. on May 28, 2009 at 2:36 pm doug1

    maurice–

    @tupac – don’t deny your love for clio.

    Sush. Let him work his Tupac magic.

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  362. on May 28, 2009 at 3:11 pm Virgin@40

    Now all this thing made me think about, not my relationship with girls but my relationship to boys.
    I am strange, that’s granted. I am also shy and stuff although I will say utterly stupid and utterly clever things frequently.
    I like sports but I have a tendency to look down and despize everything averagish or so. I don’t like people as such.

    I am thinking that I’ve made great friendships with lower betas like me, middle betas, “alphaish betas” and alphas.

    But one thing that makes me at odd with average to low betas is competitivety. I am not competitive, but somewhat I usually feel somewhat bad when surpassed by someone less than a high beta.

    I repeat, I am not competitive. But I always have smirks with Alphas. I know it’s a fight I can’t win but I like to see the Alphas from an upper position.

    Why the fuck this is, I have no idea. But it is interesting. If I see an higher beta or middle beta, I will not compaire myself to him; but if I see an alphaish guy, I would like to have a duel and 90% of the times, I’ll lose.

    Before Roissy I didn’t think or cared about all these social dynamics. I am now starting to see it’s an error.

    Just wondering something, also: When you’re new to a group, what’s best? Trying to be friends with the boys and then know the girls (as it usually happens)?

    Or is it to open up and try a “connection” with one of the girls?
    Or what would kill is the top girl?

    Any thoughts? Really interesting this stuff..

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  363. on May 28, 2009 at 3:20 pm aliasclio

    sounds like your upbringing among boys, logical thinking and “masculine” conversation style makes you more comfortable among men than women? for companionship as well as sex/attraction. how would you relate that to your varying attraction to alpha males versus the more beta types with the same traits, the ones you likely encouter in academia and goverment? that is, contrast it with how you think the girly-girls respond.

    Not wrong, but not quite right, either. I was too arty to qualify as masculine in conversational style – more eccentric, perhaps, and North America doesn’t welcome eccentrics. An Irish admirer told me I’d be happier in England; “they admire eccentric people there,” he insisted.

    The alphas to whom I was attracted, or who were attracted to me, were always maverick types themselves (I wrote about this on my blog), or “artful dodgers”. Jock and frat-boy alphas weren’t interested in me, nor I in them.

    The young men I knew in academia couldn’t really awaken much interest/passion in me, I’m afraid, and in retrospect it’s possible that it’s because they were betas. But at the time I just thought of them as too young and, worse, too inexperienced for me, not sexually so much as in life itself. They had done little travelling; they hadn’t mixed with a wide range of people; they had never worked outside academia; even their intellectual range was relatively narrow, as our program (history) demanded too much reading to have permitted them to read widely outside their field. And they were too politically leftist (though not politically correct, which they hated) for me as well, which I also related to their inexperience. I didn’t stand out much in that environment, except that I wasn’t their kind of feminist (for which the men admired me), because most of the other women were “logical” rather than emotional too. Oh, but I did stand out because unlike most female academics, I loved clothes and knew how to look good on a pittance.

    As for the men I got to know in government, I wouldn’t say they were betas, although they too were young and inexperienced. Most of them were consultants or contract-workers, and they tend to be more adventurous by nature. Many of them were into extreme sports. In fact, they were a new (I think) but growing subcategory I call surfer-geeks. Not literally surfers, but with that kind of personality, danger-hunters who were also good with computers and statistics, with artsy, bookish interests. I found some of them attractive – that was the right combination of traits to appeal to me – but they really were too young for me – 12 to 20 years. And too politically correct.

    But even the regular g-workers were not your “drone” types, and the most successful often had decidedly alpha personalities, at least in the sense of being “leaders of men”. Not usually PUAs, though.

    Sorry this is so long, but the question caught my interest.

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  364. on May 28, 2009 at 3:50 pm doug1

    aliasclio-

    Sorry this is so long, but the question caught my interest.

    Don’t be. It was interesting, because you are.

    I’m amazed that some older, probably divorced, sufficiently alphaish in a wizened, experienced kind of way, man never scooped you up. Or doesn’t now, despite your being in your early 40’s (I’m guessing). You’re impossibly choosy, probably.

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  365. on May 28, 2009 at 4:01 pm maurice

    @clio – i thought it might. you didn’t contrast your own responses with those of the different female types, though. do tell …

    i assume you are in ottawa, and the bit about government contractors as educated cowboy-types rings true for *some*( parts of the subculture in washington as well. (mainly the beltway bandits / DoD contractors.) and even though you do get your share of drones in the government proper (present company excepted, of course) there is a wide variety of types. i wouldn’t call too many of them alphas, though. each agency has its own personality because it attracts different personality types.

    i often think that academia and government bear certain fatal family similarities that lead to inefficiency, overspecialization, process-over-substance, etc. but that’s for another time.

    can you speak a little more about clio vs musette? what’s the reference there – like florestan and eusebius? clio is the muse of history, and musette is – who? the chick from “la boheme”…?

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  366. on May 28, 2009 at 4:02 pm maurice

    @doug – i think clio is the kind who is not easily “scooped” ….

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  367. on May 28, 2009 at 4:13 pm Default User

    maurice

    i think clio is the kind who is not easily “scooped”

    If he had said “swooped” I would have called for the G-Man.

    Not related:
    Are you in .mil/.gov work? You mentioned something about Iraq. Curious, that is all.
    [Understand if you prefer to ignore this question]

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  368. on May 28, 2009 at 4:26 pm maurice

    @default – the latter. ping me later if you like for more info. i too wonder where folks come from here – once i get to know people’s personalities and views, and respect them, i naturally want to know more.

    yes, i almost made the “swooped” joke but valiantly resisted. although something tells me that the GMan and Clio would be something akin to matter/anti-matter…

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  369. on May 28, 2009 at 5:10 pm aliasclio

    Well, doug1, how do you know I haven’t been, er, scooped? I don’t talk that much about my (present-day) personal life, esp. not here.

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  370. on May 28, 2009 at 5:17 pm Defaulte Usere

    Lady Raine

    so I logged on that instead and evidently I had an “e” on that one. At first I thought I was going crazy so yes it’s different.

    Thanks. I was not sure if I had misread it before.

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  371. on May 28, 2009 at 5:20 pm Tupac Chopra - SecretSociety Agent Man

    Clio:

    Well, doug1, how do you know I haven’t been, er, scooped?

    Clio…in all sincerity…you must know something…

    He’s the sort who can’t know anyone intimately….least of all a woman. He doesn’t know what a woman is. He wants you for a possession, something to look at…like a painting…or an ivory box… something to own and to display. He doesn’t want you to be real…or to think, or to live. He doesn’t love you. But *I* love
    you! I want you you to have your own thoughts and ideas and feelings — even when I hold you in my arms. It’s our last chance…

    (my place or yours?)

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  372. on May 28, 2009 at 5:20 pm Default User

    maurice

    yes, i almost made the “swooped” joke but valiantly resisted.

    Yeah. I should have too. But I gave in to the lure of cheap humor.

    Regarding more info: no need.

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  373. on May 28, 2009 at 5:27 pm maurice

    @clio – well, since you invited us to take a look at your blog, I was just over there reading the “nice guy encounters”. well done, but there didn’t seem to be a happily-ever-after ending – mainly because you seem to have attracted bright eccentric men who are not that attractive to you? (except for bus-stop guy.)

    do tell – what kind of man could be lucky enough to scoop Clio herself, muse of history? (note: either hypothetical or actual traits will do – so as not to reveal what you so coyly chose not to reveal above…)

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  374. on May 28, 2009 at 7:01 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Days of Broken Arrows:

    Oh, no worries. It’s an extreme longshot at best, more suited to a weekend thought experiment. If I didn’t know for a fact that her mother’s genetics were so good, hadn’t failed to see a ring or other indicators of prior commitment and always wondered ‘what if’, I wouldn’t have given it the issue more than a passing thought; I probably would have wiped my brow and been thankful for dodging that bullet.

    The good news is that I’m in your golden zone, just above the magic three-zero. I’ve still got a full head o’ hair and I’m fighting a (essentially successful) war against weight. Once I get through with a few things in and around work, the weight thing’ll go even more in my favor. I’ve also managed to escape having any dependents or similar problems.

    The bad news is that I’m usually disastrous with women in the desirable bracket, for whatever reason, probably that whole “smart kids don’t do menial social skills things since if they’re not interested in something, they absolutely won’t do it” thing. I can’t find where I read it, but it was here or a similar blog, maybe Sailer’s. I think it all came as a result of a desire to be focused on getting the requisite degrees and licenses along with a job and then worrying about other things. It’ll be time for other things soon, and I’d much rather go to this particular battle with all the knowledge and angles I can muster.

    Meanwhile, it’s been suggested that I could be played by William H. Macy or George F. Will; I’m not entirely sure those were meant as compliments but it wasn’t Billy Bob Thornton or Vincent D’Onofrio, so I’ll take it.

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  375. on May 29, 2009 at 3:12 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Virginia Gentleman,

    Actually, a lot of women like Vincent D’Onofrio – he might be portly but he’s got a smoldering intensity. So I’ve been told.

    I think if you’re not successful with other women, you won’t be with her. You have to develop some social skills with women you don’t want, then ease into the ones you do, using what you’ve learned.

    My advice is keep reading this blog and going out an meeting women.

    Also, you’re like me in that you’ve internalized the outdated values of the 1950s. You think that if you havea great job and money then women will come. That did happen in the old days, when women needed to rely on financial support from men. It’s not that clear cut anymore, as this blog shoud make clear. As you probably know, many women perfer good looking bad boys over stable providers. So you have to figure out how to market youself better as a dude, beyond your job.

    There are unemployed guys juggling multiple women in today’s society. The old paradigm of work hard, study, make money, get hot babes doesn’t quite work.

    The good news is you’re around 30. Start by hitting on women 22-23!

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  376. on May 29, 2009 at 6:27 pm Tupac Chopra - SecretSociety Agent Man

    Doug (to Clio):

    You’re impossibly choosy, probably.

    Indubitably.

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  377. on May 30, 2009 at 9:03 am Anonymous

    Nobody expects anything good from a guy in a bar, unless they’re looking for cheap thrills.

    If they’re looking for cheap thrills, they might be dumb, lonely or boring. Or they’re playing the game and know how to use and dispose of the Roissys of the world. Hello tissue paper! *squirt* Goodbye!

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  378. on May 30, 2009 at 12:18 pm roissy

    anon menstruator:
    Nobody expects anything good from a guy in a bar, unless they’re looking for cheap thrills.

    unless that guy is me.

    If they’re looking for cheap thrills, they might be dumb, lonely or boring.

    or horny.

    Or they’re playing the game and know how to use and dispose of the Roissys of the world.

    some of them stay for a fling. some of them stay for a relationship. expand your mental horizons, bubala.

    Hello tissue paper! *squirt* Goodbye!

    last i checked girls don’t squirt into tissue paper. are you having a gender identity moment?

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  379. on May 30, 2009 at 1:15 pm Firepower

    Lady stRaine
    Although tissue paper might work fine if you’re out of everything else.

    not to be outdone by blonds’ dimness, some redheads use it for birth control, with varying results.

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  380. on May 30, 2009 at 1:26 pm Firepower

    …looks like you forgot…

    your

    period

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  381. on May 30, 2009 at 7:31 pm chic noir

    Default Chic called me “sweet.”
    I have just been LJBFed. Sweet is what “nice guys” get called. That is why the nicely go home alone. So all told that equals epic fail.

    Not with me. Sweet guys are the men who don’t get dismissed.

    Chuck guys resent the power that women have over them
    Yes my dear chuck you have struck gold with this and I would say that men who hate women(no mom issues) do so largely because of the power that women have over them.

    Feminist x Some men will fall for a woman who exudes excessive confidence even if this woman is not as pretty as what those men could get.

    I’ve seen this woman at the bar and parties feminist x, she is the not so good-looking woman yet she steals the attention away from the 8-10s in the room. Her personality isn’t that of a ball breaker so while confident, she is able to draw most men into her web.

    DT A man with excessive confidence is a magnet to women
    Not always, some men with excessive confidence are douches. Pilot Scully and Obama show lots of confidence without becoming douches.
    Tood and men do not daydream about bridezilla weddings the way women do
    Not all women dream of a bridzilla wedding. Some of us are more practical.
    that men are attractive until a much later age than women
    This is debatable. Not all men become more physically attractive as they age instead his larger pay makes him attractive as well as his mental maturity . Some men hit the wall before they hit 30. Take a look at Prince William lately?

    Women, on the other hand, not only don’t know how a man thinks, but are too lazy/incurious to even consider that a man does not think the way a woman does.
    Looks are most important for men. Got it and never doubted it for one minute at this blog. Seeing how men behave towards attractive women will tell any woman all she needs to know.

    Tood She cannot grasp that with Game, the man is in control and the woman is the one who lusts after him, and will jump through a few hoops if she has to
    Tood what you fail to understand is there are 3 billion women on earth. Not all of them are willing to jump through a hoop for a guy. Most will simply say he’s not interested when a guy starts playing game and keep it moving.

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  382. on May 31, 2009 at 8:56 am Default User

    chic noir purred:

    Not with me. Sweet guys are the men who don’t get dismissed.

    *big smile*
    *dap*

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  383. on May 31, 2009 at 3:33 pm sara I

    roissy

    send the following text after a few days of radio silence:

    “Please no gameplaying.”

    Are you serious? This cracked me up.

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  384. on May 31, 2009 at 3:38 pm sara I

    Default User

    Lady Rain = Sara I

    Are you kidding? I was out of town visiting my ailing father. Sadly, I couldn’t stay longer.

    gig

    “Mal comida” is the opposite, who usually complains about everything, negative vibe, gets angry easily. Think about Sara I.

    Indeed.

    collegeboy

    heh just joking, but sara would make a dam nice FR and if the sex gods favor me a SNL.

    Be a good boy, and tell Sara I what the acronyms stand for. I can’t know everything.

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  385. on May 31, 2009 at 3:55 pm chic noir

    sara Are you kidding? I was out of town visiting my ailing father. Sadly, I couldn’t stay longer
    I hope your dad is feeling better.

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  386. on May 31, 2009 at 4:09 pm Default User

    sara I

    Are you kidding? I was out of town visiting my ailing father. Sadly, I couldn’t stay longer.

    I hope your father is OK.

    But yes, I was kidding. Come on!

    [Although it would have made sense: One critic disappears, another appears. Similar styles (although Lady is more verbose than the taciturn Sara)]

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  387. on May 31, 2009 at 4:30 pm Default User

    chic noir

    I have to remember to click your name for your chosen story of the day.

    Fake bling! What is the world coming to?

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  388. on May 31, 2009 at 5:00 pm doug1

    Sara

    SNL = same night lay

    FR = for real? (that IS a bit obscure in this context)

    Translation: He thinks you might be a hot MILF

    (so be sweet and flirt with him)

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  389. on May 31, 2009 at 5:11 pm Default User

    doug1, sara I

    FR might be Field Report. That is his report of the SNL with sara I.

    I have no comment on the MILF thing.

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  390. on May 31, 2009 at 7:07 pm chic noir

    default- the smarter rappers where wearing fake bling all along. Others like TI, weren’t wearing any at all, i think. new story up default.

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  391. on May 31, 2009 at 8:30 pm Default User

    chic noir

    How often do you change the story.
    [The link in your name thing is kind of a mini blog. I wonder how many people realize]

    LikeLike


  392. on August 28, 2009 at 9:02 am Pick Up Lines

    I like the idea of exposing a vulnerability or saying something goofy or silly to show your soft underbelly. And because you already know she is responding positively to you, this can only increase your connection as she sees that and emotionally responds to it.

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  393. on April 12, 2010 at 4:39 am walawala

    “Please no Game Playing”

    I used this text on a girl I was gaming who had up to that point played hot/cold games with me, reaching out, then disappearing, being available, then not.

    She responded quite adamantly that she in fact never played games and perhaps it was me who “misunderstood something”. This after telling me I was handsome and giving me all the common IOI’s over a period of 2 months.

    Since that time, she’s backed off. She sent me a note saying “We’re friends”, and she didn’t want “dating”. I brushed it off saying I didn’t want dating either but hanging out would be fun.

    But I never pushed it, and have since backed off.

    I sense the dynamic is one in which a younger girl is confused and when she received that text felt called out.

    It’s been a week since I’ve had any contact. We used to chat, see each other socially every few days. On Friday, I blanked her. Wasn’t rude, just didn’t make any effort and neither did she.

    I do know I had good rapport and attraction built up. But she wouldn’t agree to a Day 2 or meet up and I got the sense there were other “issues”…bad break up, something else etc etc. Maybe some other bloke, though never got that impression.

    Knowing that I’m also being gamed. Did I over-play my hand with that text scaring her off?

    How long does No Contact last?

    I have since moved on to other girls.

    It’s most likely she will reach out and poke me somehow to respond.

    If I didn’t have feelings, I wouldn’t really give a shit. I don’t reach out because at this point, I know I’m invested in the outcome so prefer to stick with No Contact and gaming other chicks.

    Why did she react so strongly to the “no gameplaying” text followed by a “we’re friends” message shortly after?

    Did I totally misread the IOI’s? I don’t think I did. Is NO CONTACT the only way?

    LikeLike


  394. on June 22, 2010 at 10:14 am Staying One Step Ahead Of Suspicious Women « Citizen Renegade

    […] is a good point. Overqualification is a bigger problem than most men realize, and can kill a pickup in its infancy. Advanced players […]

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  395. on September 17, 2010 at 4:22 pm Rarfy

    This is sadly the Charybdis I find myself falling into over and over. I recently blew out a bona fide 10 who lives in Vegas who’s so attractive that club promoters pay her to come to their clubs. I played super cocky funny asshole game with no letup and just blew her out. Negged her constantly, when we went out I pointedly told everyone we weren’t together, brushed her hands off me, etc. Even got to the point where her best friend was trying to convince me to “give her a chance.” But I was on overdrive, I couldn’t stop, and she finally cut out, won’t even speak to me now, even after I tried to turn it around by being a little vulnerable.

    I think all men have to spend some time blowing chicks out in this way though, before they can reign it in and walk the Middle Path. Most guys don’t understand that they can overqualify themselves to a 10. I mean think about it, being “too good” for the hottest woman you ever saw!?

    LikeLike


  396. on October 4, 2010 at 2:17 pm Brushing Off Common Shit Tests From Girls « Citizen Renegade

    […] careful of overqualifying yourself when she asks you this. Good answer if she is seriously concerned: "I used to be, but those days […]

    LikeLike



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