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Chateau Heartiste

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May 2009 Beta Of The Month

May 28, 2009 by CH

The April 2009 BOTM contest was a runaway. Mr. “Don’t Judge an Alpha by His Cover” won with his stirring video loveletter to an ex. Has there been a more repugnant — or cheesier — case of oneitis? Congratulations to reader Ben for that submission.

And now, the reader submitted nominees for the May 2009 Beta of the Month contest. The envelope, please…

May 2009 BOTM Candidate #1 was submitted by a boatload of readers but el chief got there first. This story about a New York Beta Times economics (!) reporter who was driven into deep debt by the reckless spending habits of his washed-up, dumpy, twice-bankrupt 49 year old Argentinian second wife has made the blog rounds, and I’m pleased to see the concepts of beta and herb, thanks in no small part to the yeoman efforts of your narcissistic narrator, filtering into the public square like a much needed anti-PC colonic.

Edmund Andrews is the beta chump who wants to blame the easy lending of the predatory mortgage loan sharks for his financial despair (he’s writing a book about the ordeal, detailing his descent into the middle class) but the truth is that most of his woes can be laid directly at the feet of his high maintenance shrike of a wife who misspent him into oblivion. Andrews is, to put it succinctly, a victim of his own betatude. He had options which he didn’t have the sack to avail himself of: Avoid marrying the old broad, or lay down the law in his household and cut off her thousand dollar weekly allowance.

Here are some choice quotes shedding light on his Gollum-like shrivelled beta soul (“My preciooous wants the 10-ply strawberry scented toilet paper and Whole Foods organically grown rutebagas. My middle-aged pendulous-boobed preciooous gets everything she wants or no sex for meee!”):

Patty was brainy, regal, sexy, fiery and eclectic. She was one of my closest friends when we were both students at an American high school in Argentina. Back then, we would talk together about politics and books at a coffee shop every day after school. We were not romantic in those days and went our separate ways after high school. But each of us would go through bruising two-decade-long marriages, and we felt that sweet spark of remembrance and renewal upon meeting again in middle age.

LJBFed? Check. “Dates” were sexually arid conversations about politics and literature? Check. “Sweet spark of remembrance” was a 49 year old wall victim deciding to settle for an abjectly grateful beta provider and clean out his accounts because she has a bad case of Princess Entitlement Complex? Check.

After a one-year bicoastal courtship,

You are a loser with women if you have to resort to courting floppy-lobed pussy 3,000 miles away.

Patty discovered a small but stately brick home in a leafy, kid-filled neighborhood in Silver Spring, Md.

Never let your wife “discover” the big purchases for you. You’re asking for trouble. The man should always make the decision on the big expenditures.

Having separated from my wife of 21 years, who had physical custody of our sons, I was handing over $4,000 a month in alimony and child-support payments. That left me with take-home pay of $2,777, barely enough to make ends meet in a one-bedroom rental apartment. Patty had yet to even look for a job.

$4K a month. How many of these wickedly unjust sad stories do men have to hear before they stop walking down the aisle entirely? And at 49 years old with no small kids to raise, I think Patty could get off her fat ass and get a job.

We had very different ideas about money. Patty spent little on herself, but she refused to scrimp on top-quality produce, Starbucks coffee, bottled juices, fresh cheeses and clothing for the children and for me. She regularly bought me new shirts and ties to replace the frayed and drab ones in my closet. She thought it wasn’t worth agonizing over nickels and dimes. I was almost exactly the opposite. My answer to any money squeeze was to stop spending. I would skip lunch at work to save $7. If I arrived at the Metro just before the end of rush hour, I would wait for five minutes to save 50 cents on the fare.

We were both building up grudges. “You can’t keep second-guessing me,” she told me angrily. “It’s small-minded and petty, and it’s not very attractive.” I was beginning to wonder whether she had any clue about how money worked. We were lurching from paycheck to paycheck, one big home repair away from disaster.

When a woman finally relents and marries a beta provider, she thinks to herself “well, at least I won’t have to worry about watching my spending by marrying this flaccid schlub”. The beta provider thinks “Wow, she really loves me!”. What we have here is… a failure to communicate.

Patty woke up, irritated by all my movement and my occasional moans of despair. “What’s the matter?” she asked.

“I can’t sleep,” I answered. “I’m panicking about money, because I don’t know how we’re going to pay all the bills that need to be paid right now.” I wanted her to take me in her arms and reassure me that everything would be O.K.

Window to the soul. A beta wants his woman to take him in her arms. An alpha takes his woman in his arms.

“I can’t believe you are doing this to me on my birthday,” she hissed in fury. “All I asked for was one day of peace — one day when you weren’t beating me over the head. And here it is, not even daylight yet, and you’re waking me up to berate me about money.”

“Son of a bitch, what did I do to you?” I asked, punching my pillow in the dark. “Do you think I enjoy having a panic attack? I can’t help what I’m feeling. I’m just scared out of my mind.”

“That’s it!” Patty snapped, getting out of bed and pulling on her robe. “I’m not going to listen to any more of this. I’m going to sleep downstairs.”

In the morning, she let me have it.

If I didn’t know any better I’d think Andrews was the wrongdoer here. Women are so very VERY good at absolving themselves of any accountability and transferring all the guilt and blame to the idealistic, hapless beta dupe. If you read me, you can save yourself Andrews’ fate because you will understand the true nature of woman — the dark swirlings of her soul that are hidden from even her own awareness.

“You lied to me,” she told me as I got coffee. “You said that what I saw on the outside was pretty much what you were. But you’re completely different. If I had known what you were really like, I would never have come out here.”

And here it is, finally. The truth revealed in a moment of angry frustration that strips away the veneer of her feral animal heart. She never really loved him. She only loved his money stream and the security his station in life promised to an aging hag like herself. If this guy was any sort of man, he would have backhanded her across the face and threw her shit out the window. But instead he will go on blaming himself, blaming mortgage lenders, blaming the fates, and he will pretend his personal hell reaffirms the love he and his harridan wife share. This is what the walking dead do. They know not the exquisite pleasures of the living.

herbus maximus

herbus maximus

******

 May 2009 BOTM Candidate #2 was also submitted by a boatload of readers but Alpinestar got ahead of the pack. It’s the short but sweet story of a wonderful beta boyfriend who chooses to stick by his whoring girlfriend (who is so ugly it’s a miracle he was able to get it up for her) and raise the cuckoo’s egg of another man. A man, it should be noted, who the whore banged on or very near the same day she banged our featured BOTM candidate. Some human refuse should just be removed from circulation.

Mia Washington decided to get some expert advice when she and her partner noticed that twins Justin and Jordan had different facial features.

Paternity tests then revealed what had happened – two eggs had been fertilised by two different sperm and there was a 99.99% chance the twins had different dads.

Mia later admitted she had had an affair and got pregnant by two different men at the same time.

She told TV channel Fox 4: “Out of all people in America and of all people in the world, it had to happen to me. I’m very shocked.”

How horny does a woman have to be to jump from one unprotected cock to another in the same day? How stupid?

(And I wonder how she will explain this to her two kids when they’re older. “Momma, why is Jordan my half-brother?” “Well, boy, Jordan got a different baby daddy than you.” “But we’re twins, momma! We was born at the same time.” “That’s right, boy, your daddy put his penis in me on the same day Jordan’s daddy put his penis in me.” “But why, momma?” “Shut yo face, boy, b’fo I smack it off!”)

And while it sounds rare, recent research indicates that one in 12 non-identical twins are so-called bi-paternal, with a rise in fertility treatment and changing sexual behaviour being blamed.

If true, this is a portent of sexual dystopia.

Mia’s partner James Harrison is father to one of the boys.

He told Fox 4 that he had forgiven his fiancee for having the affair and intended to raise both children as his own.

However, he admitted it had been tough discovering the truth.

“It’s a day by day thing. It’s going to take time to build the trust like we had,” he said.

Betas are quick to forgive. If you ever feel the impulse to forgive a cheating whore, you are probably acting out of fear that you can’t do any better. Forgiveness, like Jesus Christ’s other cheek, is the first refuge of the loser with no options.

This guy is in a bit of a bind. One of the kids is his, so emotionally it would be tough for him to walk away from both. And being that this is the “community” we’re talking about, a black man who decides to stay with his biological child and help raise him is a small miracle in itself. My advice to him would be to de facto dump the ugly whale girlfriend and start finding a new woman, while lavishing all his fatherly attention and gifts on his biological child. Ignore the other kid entirely. Put the moral onus on the whore to hunt down the other dad and browbeat him into supporting the consequence of his spermal contribution. I’d also get a lawyer and consider some kind of split custody arrangement. The last thing he wants to do is be forced by the state to send a cut of his pay in child support to the whore so she can buy cheesy poofs by the pallet and fall on more cock than a gay nymphomaniac whose farts whoosh.

Mia is pregnant AGAIN but this time she said there was “no question” that James was the dad.

Um, dude… don’t take her word for it. Jes sayin’.

The voting:

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Posted in Beta Of The Year Contest | 347 Comments

347 Responses

  1. on May 28, 2009 at 2:24 pm Chuck

    roissy,

    this is a rich field…it’s really a toss up for me, but i’m going to go with the cuckolded man by a hair.

    the NYT guys’ story makes my sack shrivel in horror at the prospects of marriage, but deciding to raise another man’s child, when there is no father/offspring bond formed is ridiculous.

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  2. on May 28, 2009 at 2:32 pm maurice

    i gotta go with (a) here. marrying the LJBF high-school hottie 20+ years later is the mistake that underlies all the others. that woman is a horrifying piece of work as well.

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  3. on May 28, 2009 at 2:33 pm lurker

    NYTimes boy, hands down.

    He’s a beta-herb-liberal to start, but his story made it worse. Plus he wrote a book trying to blame the whole thing on–get this—the Evil Unregulated Housing Market (and implying Bush heavily, although, like all liberals he has no proof to his claim).

    Megan McCardle over at The Atlantic went researching the story and foung he actually *hid* more bad things about his wife—like the fact that she was a serial bankruptcy filier (twice in 7 years) and her own sister sued her for money. And then he had the audacity to claim *nothing* his *dear old hag wife* did had *anything* to do with his financial failings and how *grateful* he was to her for *allowing* him to share *their* story.

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  4. on May 28, 2009 at 2:33 pm Chuck

    also, check out the picture from the first article. *she wears the pants of that relationship*. speaking of pants, and assuming since she liked to spend money on clothes she bought his and her pants, *they are wearing the exact same khakis*. the only difference is that her’s are bigger than his, yet another blow to his manliness.

    she has a more upright, steely gaze than him, and his shoulders are hunkered down like a dog that just got caught digging in the trash.

    what patty is really saying in her final diatribe is that she is upset she discovered she actually married a pussy instead of a real man. his neediness and his inability to handle pressure and stress surely showed in his voice and demeanor. a woman wants to feel like the man is in control in all but the most dire of situations. he shriveled under the pressure, and her vagina sealed shut in response.

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  5. on May 28, 2009 at 2:37 pm ironrailsironweights

    I’ll cast my vote for Eddie. It’s also my reasoned guess that the succubus Patty is shaved.

    Peter

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  6. on May 28, 2009 at 2:39 pm PA

    I voted for the first guy.

    we felt that sweet spark of remembrance and renewal upon meeting again in middle age.

    Weaving elaborate romantic mythogies out of a relationship with a woman who never loved him? — Check.

    Saying “we” when he means “I” felt the sweet spark of rememberance…”? — Check.

    One of my breakthrough moments in de-betafication was realizing that it is not my feelings that define the relationship — it’s her’s. I can claim that we’re “soulmates” or whatever, but if she doesn’t feel it, we aren’t.

    He’s too old to keep putting women on pedestals.

    Beta.

    At least the cuckolded guy got one kid out of the deal. He’s likely still in shock at the time of the interview.

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  7. on May 28, 2009 at 2:45 pm john

    Have to vote for the NYT asshole. Those shrivelled dick faggots are the same guys who so lovingly squeal over Obama(sooooo cool!sooo smart!) I have no sympathy for this beta chump. No doubt a second divorce is in the offing if this stupid book of his doesnt work;I imagine he dreams of a movie coming out of this. Interesting that as I read the story of the black cuckold,Roissy wrote “…dump the ugly whale girlfriend…”,which I saw when I read it first as :dump the ugly WHITE girlfriend…” Theres eems to be a pattern of interracials being real dirtbag sluts!

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  8. on May 28, 2009 at 2:46 pm boru

    I love how the woman says “Out of all people in America and of all people in the world, it had to happen to me” like it was this crazy random occurrence that fate dropped on her through no fault of her own. YOU FUCKED TWO DUDES IN THE SAME DAY YOU DUMBASS!

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  9. on May 28, 2009 at 2:48 pm maurice

    i think (b) is in a tougher position – (a) can always kick the wife’s ass (and her kids’) to the curb – something she has clearly richly earned. his kids are with the ex, so no harm done to his progeny.

    (b)’s biological kid has the twin half-brother, so any “nuke-her-from-orbit” response would indirectly harm his son and the son’s relationship with his twin. maybe it’s worth it if he can get sole custody and make a clean break, but as you regularly point out, even in clear-cut cuckolding cases like this, the courts will never take the father’s side. Never. so (b)’s option to swallow his humiliation might be not only rational in the face of his legal options, but better for his son – as you point out, something rare in that socio-economic context.

    (b)’s best choice: let the whale raise the kids and start f**king around all over town. what goes around comes around.

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  10. on May 28, 2009 at 2:59 pm Tupac Chopra

    Chuck:

    what patty is really saying in her final diatribe is that she is upset she discovered she actually married a pussy instead of a real man. his neediness and his inability to handle pressure and stress surely showed in his voice and demeanor.

    The day a woman wants me to “be a real man” by “handling the pressure” of her shrewish demands for mo money mo money mo money, is the day I say “fuck being a man” and join the Church of Alexander.

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  11. on May 28, 2009 at 3:15 pm Grim

    Beta B all the way. The humiliation level for a guy who has his wife brazenly treat him like this is a true uber beta.

    Think about it… if you had a family member who married a chick robbing him of his money, that’s pretty common and while you feel sorry for the guy, he’s still family.

    But a chick that cuckolded him on the same day as making their son and then tells everyone about it? And he does nothing? WTF. I could never have anything to do a family member who let that kind of humiliation without doing jack shit about it. I would have more respect for the family cat.

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  12. on May 28, 2009 at 3:17 pm doug1

    People, click the links before you vote.

    The shear horrific whale ugliness of beta #2’s finance tips the scales on two pathetic choices to him.

    He should refuse to marry her and let her get child support from two men. (Having impregnated the cow, he can’t escape child support in the Anglosphere unless she’s married to someone else or covers for him.) Though I believe that child support is a lot more reasonable in the UK than the US. (Not sure though.) If he then wants to live with her, well he’s in a better position. It still sucks of course. Look at her. Consider her uber sluttiness.

    Beta #1 should NEVER have married her. Why the hell? Live together perhaps. Now he’s five years into marriage and in danger of an alimony assessment if she isn’t working. He should absolutely insist she get a job. Not a play job, a money job. Meanwhile, hard as it is he needs to petition the court for a reduction in his child support and end to his alimony or at least reduction. The climate is improving for that somewhat given the economic climate and large number of such petitions.

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  13. on May 28, 2009 at 3:18 pm Firepower

    roissy:

    This is what the walking dead do. They know not the exquisite pleasures of the living.

    nor knoweth not, countless scores of NYT readers sympathizing with the kvetching of that whining, simpering New Yawk Repotah

    alphas up

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  14. on May 28, 2009 at 3:21 pm It's my first day

    Based on the appearance of her pants, I’d say that the unemployed bitch in the first article doesn’t even appear to know how to use an ironing board. Yeah, you got yourself a real catch there, Herb.

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  15. on May 28, 2009 at 3:22 pm Jack

    My saying: If she didn’t want you in her 20’s, you definitely don’t want her in her 30’s. (and 40’s goes without saying)

    however, I think my story posted a week or so ago is better, and sadder.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/fashion/weddings/17KLEIN.html

    UCLA Italian instructor who should be plowing undergrads every weekend marrying a woman who is (1) a lawyer, (2) an over the hill five years older, (3) DIVORCED ALREADY.

    He’s my beta of the month, but of these two I’ll choose (a).

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  16. on May 28, 2009 at 3:27 pm Cannon's Canon

    My first remark is: why does anyone here still read the New York Beta Times???

    Second: the gollum voices made me burst out laughing. A stroke of genius.

    Real talk: I voted for the NYBT economist. He exhibits a relatively thorough comprehension of the circumstances leading to his disenfranchisement. Yet, in retrospect, he epically fails to identify any socially-unacceptable contributions to the situation (no wonder, he writes for the Times… a sin unforgivable for even M.Lewis and Krugman). For all his faculties, he still cannot think “outside the box.” Indeed, the logical rationale he employs in hindsight is glaringly absent in his tiptoeing descriptions of his wife. I lament his unrealized potential.

    The second story is absurd for all the obvious, aforementioned reasons. I declined to vote for that man because he has the straight path to alpha behavior convoluted by the cloud of genetic imperative to raise his son optimally. His comments are contrived and perhaps not even his own, though he let himself be photographed for the story. Consider this: had he defied the percentages and kicked out his cheating whore of a woman, sought joint custody of his child, and systematically ignored the other kid, THIS WOULD NOT BE IN THE NEWS. The whole story drums up empathy for betas and the extra-equal rights of the women that use them. This pathetic man is simply a media vehicle; I’m not impressed.

    For the record, I submitted my own “economic journalist” last month here: http://roissy.wordpress.com/beta-of-the-year-contest-submissions/#comment-78730

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  17. on May 28, 2009 at 3:28 pm doug1

    At least wife #1 is damn good looking FOR HER AGE. If he was 48 in 2004 and she was his classmate or at least schoolmate and say no more than one or two years younger, that means she’s 51-2 now. If those pics are recent, she’s pretty damn good looking for her age, if high testosterone. She looks like she still has sex drive though. Maybe big time. (Cheat city on his herb ass in the final hormone panic that can sometimes happen?)

    Naturally he should have gone with someone younger. But just lived with the younger woman as well.

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  18. on May 28, 2009 at 3:32 pm Grim

    In other news, the future of America? Where women are in charge:

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,627363,00.html

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  19. on May 28, 2009 at 3:34 pm omron

    “gay nymphomaniac whose farts whoosh”

    This must be a reference to “agnostic” who blogs at akinokure.blogspot.com

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  20. on May 28, 2009 at 3:37 pm Mark

    Only two to choose from? Disappointing! Especially since I had seen these two already.

    I voted for B. I just can’t look past the fact that this guy’s son and the other’s guy son were conceived on the SAME DAY. I think A just comes across as more of a whiner because we’re hearing the story from his point of view.

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  21. on May 28, 2009 at 3:43 pm Carl Sagan

    I voted for the first.

    Stories like these just make me feel physically ill.

    They also remind me to always be a man, regardless of my current situation or circumstances.

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  22. on May 28, 2009 at 3:43 pm jonathanjones02

    Truly, the world is going to hell. So many examples to be disappointed by….

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  23. on May 28, 2009 at 3:46 pm JM

    I sense an interesting contrast here of “state of nature” beta (b) vs. “beta by cultural influence” (a). Given the appearance and mannerisms of the woman from the second story, I can only assume that her cuckolded partner is of fantastically below average intelligence and below average wealth/status. The unique human ability to think abstractly about our primal urges, and change our behavior so as avoid the pratfalls of acting on those urges, is likely barely present in the second guy–a natural born beta and loser in life who is a total slave to his genes. The way I’m picturing him, it might not even make sense to view him as having “free will” in a certain sense.

    An educated new york times reporter, not least of all a man with deep knowledge of economics, has absolutely no excuse for not being able to calmly look at the facts of his wife’s behavior and expenditures, and behaving accordingly by taking charge and setting his wife straight. He’s should be smart enough to realize that the romantic comedies he has based his life on are FICTION, and that the feminist thought which undoubtedly led him to consciously emasculating himself is supported by specious, if not preposterous, reasoning. The first guy is the beta who you want to scream out of anger and disgust, whereas the second you just kind of want to laugh at as you watch the dark side of darwinism unfold with sadistic glee.

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  24. on May 28, 2009 at 3:46 pm Fabian

    I picked #1 by a mile. There’s no evidence the guy in #2 did anything beta before she cheated on him. As for him dumping her ass now that he knows, others have said it: he’ll lose custody of his own son and be out of the picture as a father, which is something that happens all too much in the black community as it is. When the Community Ship is sinking, one doesn’t always have the luxury of living up to the highest alpha standards all the time. The guy in #1 is pathetic because he’s allowing silly romantic nonsense to interfere with his ability to see that harpie for who she really is. The fault for not dealing with the situation is entirely his. She’s one of the most masculine women I’ve ever seen. Tape two small water balloons onto a mans body, and you have her body.

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  25. on May 28, 2009 at 3:49 pm Master Dogen

    boru:

    That cracked me up too. “Of all the people in the world, why did this happen to me???” BECAUSE YOU ARE A NASTY, NASTY WHORE.

    Of course, the woman has no moral compass whatsoever.

    Lollercopterz.

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  26. on May 28, 2009 at 3:52 pm Kick a Bitch

    motherfucker said “floppy-lobed” pussy…

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    and how sad. how very very sad…

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  27. on May 28, 2009 at 3:54 pm Fabian

    Men finally getting organized? And on a college campus, no less?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-u-of-c-mens-groupmay19,0,4707353.story

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  28. on May 28, 2009 at 4:05 pm Lupo

    #1 of course. He’s an economics writer for fuck sake. One who has already been taken to the cleaners to the tune of half his income. D’ya think he would have known better fer petesake?

    #2 is horrible, but the fact that he thought porking a whalebeest star of “fat chicks in party hats” was in any regard a good idea meant that he lost the lottery of life a long time ago. Also, he can’t be more beta than #1 as he obviously could beat #1 to death with his testicles.

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  29. on May 28, 2009 at 4:05 pm Royal

    I gotta go with number two, on the grounds that he was resorting to boning that fat cow to begin with. (Not that the woman in number one is anything special, but she at least looks like she might have been attractive at one point.)

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  30. on May 28, 2009 at 4:07 pm Royal

    “There’s no evidence the guy in #2 did anything beta before she cheated on him.”

    Yes, yes there is. Did you SEE the woman?

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  31. on May 28, 2009 at 4:07 pm Thursday

    I agree with JM. The latter guy is just too low class and low IQ to be held to the same standards as a NYT economist.

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  32. on May 28, 2009 at 4:09 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ Thursday

    I’d say the opposite.

    An NY Times reporter is a beta? Not surprising.

    A low-class black man acting like a beta? As ‘O’ would say, most bruthas don’t get down like that.

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  33. on May 28, 2009 at 4:09 pm Grim

    A NYT economist is about as dumb as they come these days.

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  34. on May 28, 2009 at 4:12 pm maurice

    @fabian – nice symbolically, but an undergrad club won’t change anything at all in the culture at large. and yet look how quickly the mud was flung at even something as small-scale and meaningless as that … like roissy said earlier: women enjoy an advantageous power situation and will not give it up voluntarily.

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  35. on May 28, 2009 at 4:15 pm Virgin@40

    A man has twins from her girl.
    But one of the babies is not his???

    The guy even thinks about staying with her?? He’s the beta of the year to me and there’s no discussion.

    The “Herbus Maximus” was a great example as well, and I have some tendencies to behave like him. But I think the comparison is unfair, he would be a great candidate to Beta of the month if he had another opponent.
    No one can beat a man who’s father of only one of her women’s twins. And do nothing about it.

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  36. on May 28, 2009 at 4:17 pm RTC

    This is a close one but I’m going with (a) because he has already let his beta instincts ruin his life, and because he’s actually peddling this story of beta pride. The guy in (b) still has time to save himself.

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  37. on May 28, 2009 at 4:18 pm kam

    at least the second guy was getting laid. and not paying 4K in alimony and child support BEFORE this wife came along.

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  38. on May 28, 2009 at 4:19 pm maurice

    @doug- have to disagree with your take on Patty the Harpie. Attractiveness is not the metric at that age, period. She’d be a good catch for a guy 65-70 but *not* for a guy her age. Second, the horrendous behavior was absolutely intolerable – even if NYT dude had been married to a 26 year old model, he should have dumped her for even a fraction of that. Abundance, not scarcity…. compliance … etc. For a life partner (as opposed to a f**k or fling) looks *do not* trump character.

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  39. on May 28, 2009 at 4:21 pm Thursday

    A low-class black man acting like a beta? As ‘O’ would say, most bruthas don’t get down like that.

    T. (Ricky Raw) can set you straight . Lots of black guys are beta at their core.
    http://therawness.com/myth-of-the-ghetto-alpha-male/

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  40. on May 28, 2009 at 4:27 pm Celtic

    The action of the cuckold is forgivable- he did after all have one real son, and leaving her would have meant denying him a two parent family.

    The NYBT reporter is simply disgusting. He had himself a good salary to provide him a really comfortable live, but blew it all away because he isn’t enough of a man to stick up to women. After getting crushed the first time in divorce court, this idiot still didn’t learn his lessom and gotten driven into bankruptcy.

    The funy thing is, with a salary like his he could have gotten a much better wife. He could have gone to the third world and married someone much younger and brought her back to the US- being white and making six figures would make you a really hot commodity in a lot of the third world.

    Of course, just imagine the feminist scorn and disapproval had he done that. So instead, he went along and married someone “respectable”, an old washed up shrew who wrecked his life.

    But that’s the nature of the beta. He is not a man, he is not willing to stand up for himself, he will just bow to whatever is the SWPL approved behavior. And this man paid his cowardice with having his life ruined.

    Anyone want to guess how often “he” and his wife hook up? Twice a year, maybe?

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  41. on May 28, 2009 at 4:31 pm Seeking Alpha

    @ Thursday – Good point. Where is T these days anyway?

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  42. on May 28, 2009 at 4:35 pm Comment_Whatever

    Number 1. Because at least Number 2 did get a kid…. and it seems Number 2’s wife panicked and got pregnant again in order to trap him more.

    Beta 2’s wife was sufficiently afraid of him dumping her to try to trap him further with another kid. That she was actually worried about his response means he can’t be all beta.

    A real Beta takes it no matter what. Number 1 is Number 1!

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  43. on May 28, 2009 at 4:36 pm doug1

    Maurice–

    She’d be a good catch for a guy 65-70 but *not* for a guy her age.

    I thought I made clear that she is definitely too old for him, or should be. I’m just saying at least she’s not ugly nor starting to look like a gandma (even though she could be one).

    At 48 he should have been able to get a girl in her middle or at least late 30s even with that horrendous child support / alimony burden. The best general category for him would be divorced mid 30s. Divorced from a beta who bored her to death. (Which she perceived as irreconcilable differences – couldn’t stand his whining another minute, etc.) He could then try to alpha up in comparison. (I’m working with what he’s got here.) Children would be the main problem with a woman in her thirties. If he’s done with that, as I’d say he should be, that’s what narrows the field most for him, or it should be if he had any alpha at all in him.

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  44. on May 28, 2009 at 4:36 pm Virgin@40

    ” picked #1 by a mile. There’s no evidence the guy in #2 did anything beta before she cheated on him.”

    JM, I sense Fabian is of the same high intelligence of the Beta #2…

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  45. on May 28, 2009 at 4:40 pm Virgin@40

    Yeah Fabian… girl number two is the apex of femine-“ness”… You moron…

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  46. on May 28, 2009 at 4:43 pm doug1

    Seeking Alpha

    A low-class black man acting like a beta? As ‘O’ would say, most bruthas don’t get down like that.

    Yes, he would. But don’t buy Obsidian’s smooth as satin propaganda on that subject.

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  47. on May 28, 2009 at 4:43 pm maurice

    @doug – understood.

    @celtic – you had the right answer. even a mail-order bride would have been better for him than what he got. but he didn’t see it that way- wthat’s why he’s BotM, right?

    @Thursday, SA – there’s something matriarchal about underclass culture, including underclass black culture. (note that i am placing socioeconomic status before race.) the men are generally shiftless, drink/drug too much, etc. and the women do all the work and bear all the burdens. reminds me a bit of that aspect of life in russia. also a lot of boys in that environment are raised by single moms, so no dad role-model in the house and too much deference to female opinion. that’s a recipe for beta behavior around women, however gangsta they may be on the street.

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  48. on May 28, 2009 at 4:44 pm Chuck

    “Number 1. Because at least Number 2 did get a kid…. and it seems Number 2’s wife panicked and got pregnant again in order to trap him more.”

    Number 1 got a kid too. Some of you are acting like the fact that he *at least* got a kid out of the deal is some badge of honor for the man. let me tell you: it’s not. having a child with a shrew like that woman is a curse, not an honor. get your minds right.

    Number 2 runs the risk that if his wife divorces him, and he has accepted financial responsibility for the bastard twin for too long, he will be forced to pay child support for both children.

    So he needs to strike while the iron is hot and drown the child that isn’t his. That’s right. Going medieval is the only way to handle this situation.

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  49. on May 28, 2009 at 4:58 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “So he needs to strike while the iron is hot and drown the child that isn’t his. That’s right. Going medieval is the only way to handle this situation.”

    Well that will certainly help his biological son, and by ‘help’ I mean ‘traumatize for life and make him hate his father’.

    Interesting difference between men and women:

    When women bond with children (whether or not they’re ‘theirs’) that bond is _very_ hard to break (if they don’t bond with children, including their own, they’re almost as likely to abandon, abuse or even kill them as to nurture them).

    Men can bond with children and then get just as bored with them (including their own biological children) as with a casual girlfriend and dump them just as unceremoniously.

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  50. on May 28, 2009 at 5:00 pm collegeboy

    true nature of woman — the dark swirlings of her soul that are hidden from even her own awareness.

    The proof is right here.

    Beta’s are a pathetic bunch, but beta males are needed nonetheless.

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  51. on May 28, 2009 at 5:02 pm AKitty

    “A beta wants his woman to take him in her arms. An alpha takes his woman in his arms.”

    Too true.

    Roissy, a good idea for a post: telling moms of young boys what to do to avoid raising a beta.

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  52. on May 28, 2009 at 5:04 pm Jim

    I voted for #2 although I can see the arguments for #1. Cuckolding is just the most evil thing. Against that one could say black guys frequently live with other men’s children under feet, and they have a different idea about what supporting and raising a child means.

    Andrews was in bad finanacial shape, but I can’t believe being a NYT reporter doesn’t provide you with *huge* social status in DC. I think he could have found a good-looking woman who made made big bucks as a lawyer or something and already had a nice house and had an easy ride.

    Maybe the trick in life is not to avoid doing stupid things, but to avoid doing stupid things that really screw up your life. Who doesn’t do stupid things? But marrying a woman who then bankrupts you is not something you can shrug off. If he’s lucky Patty will get sick of his sorry ass and leave without alimony. I think the odds are she’ll hang around because who else is going to support her and put up with her crap? I think Andrews will be praying for death soon.

    As “Paradise by the Dashboard Light” ends- “So now I’m praying for the end of time, to hurry up and arrive…..”

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  53. on May 28, 2009 at 5:07 pm Aengima

    Beta number one.

    Its bad enough that he caused his own financial woes by refusing to set his foot down and control his bitch’s spending- but the fact that he wanted her to take him into her arms and comfort her for the very problems she caused tops the chart in my book.

    Any man can get cuckholded, and bi-paternal twins in apparently 1 in 12; so both are relatively common- but it takes a real rare beta pansy to break down and cry while asking “his” girl to hold him in her arms and comfort her.

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  54. on May 28, 2009 at 5:07 pm cultured ape

    Nice titties though, so the bullshit might have been worth it, considering his otherwise meaningless existence and complete inability to arrange a better female for himself.

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  55. on May 28, 2009 at 5:11 pm Tupac Chopra - SecretSociety Agent Man

    AKitty:

    Roissy, a good idea for a post: telling moms of young boys what to do to avoid raising a beta.

    See: this entire blog.

    You’re soaking in it.

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  56. on May 28, 2009 at 5:12 pm cultured ape

    That refers to the NYTimes BETA OF THE MONTH. And how could you ever nominate a black man as BOTM? As for BOTM in the non-white world, I have a suspicion Indians might be a good pool to draw from in the future.

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  57. on May 28, 2009 at 5:13 pm askjoe

    Beta Number One. Number two was close because the gal is a warpig, but still, the wife of beta number one isn’t much better. Plus, I think that beta number two was playing the field as well.

    My alpha recollection is that my dad’s an alpha and he controlled spending while I was growing up. Girls aren’t too good with math.

    Finally, being a SWPL is enough to earn my scorn.

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  58. on May 28, 2009 at 5:14 pm Black Liar

    —Yes, he would. But don’t buy Obsidian’s smooth as satin propaganda on that subject.—

    Especially from someone who ain’t no Brother. Guy also post other places as Dragon Horse. Claims he lived in Japan ‘n sheet. But eating sushi twice doesn’t count for much…

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  59. on May 28, 2009 at 5:19 pm Eurosabra

    Jack,

    UCLA has a strict “no plowing anyone you could conceivably end up grading” policy, and it is enforced, although no one has yet been fired, 1st-time “offenders” get a serious reprimand that is obviously a prelude to firing in case of a 2nd offense. The statute is only 3 lines long, because absolute prohibitions are simple. If he wants an undergrad, it’ll have to be from some OTHER college/university in LA.

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  60. on May 28, 2009 at 5:23 pm doug1

    AKitty

    Roissy: “A beta wants his woman to take him in her arms. An alpha takes his woman in his arms.”

    Too true.

    I missed that reading through Roissy’s post.

    I literally can’t imagine saying what prompted that from Roissy:

    I wanted her to take me in her arms and reassure me that everything would be O.K.

    *shudder*

    Given his age he didn’t even receive anything like the kind of “sensitivity training” that gen Y has had. Though Hollywood movies etc. have been doing a lot of “adult education” on the subject for decades.

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  61. on May 28, 2009 at 5:26 pm Anonymous

    On the flip side, I think this guy should be nominated as the alpha of the month:

    http://bossip.com/116114/smh-forget-octomom-desmond-drop-a-seed-hatchet-is-29-years-old-with-21-kids/

    He even rocked the child support system.

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  62. on May 28, 2009 at 5:27 pm roissy

    cliff aka MQ:
    When women bond with children (whether or not they’re ‘theirs’) that bond is _very_ hard to break (if they don’t bond with children, including their own, they’re almost as likely to abandon, abuse or even kill them as to nurture them).

    there is no evidence that women bond equally to non-biological children and biological children. in fact, all the evidence we have points in the opposite direction: stepmothers abuse their stepkids at much higher rates than natural mothers abuse their biological kids.

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  63. on May 28, 2009 at 5:32 pm Fabian

    That refers to the NYTimes BETA OF THE MONTH. And how could you ever nominate a black man as BOTM? As for BOTM in the non-white world, I have a suspicion Indians might be a good pool to draw from in the future.

    This point of view is interesting, because in my opinion it completely misses the dynamic of what’s going on in the black community vis a vis looking all hard and bad-ass and such. Granted, it’s a much rougher environment than I’ve ever been exposed to, or would ever want to be exposed to. But when I watch a rap video with all the posturing and acting tough, or when I see people acting that way in public when they’re not being confronted by anyone in particular, I don’t see alphaness and confidence at all. I see the exact opposite – someone desperately trying to compensate for a lack of confidence by covering it over with aggression. Don’t get me wrong, when anyone gets confronted physically, it may be appropriate to get aggressive. The problem arises when it’s done during times where no real confrontation is occurring. Then it’s actually beta. I’m open to other thoughtful opinions on the subject though.

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  64. on May 28, 2009 at 5:37 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “there is no evidence that women bond equally to non-biological children and biological children”

    I didn’t say they did, I said that if they do bond with a non-bio kid they don’t much distinguish it from bio kids.
    Granted the younger the child the more likely the bonding is (especially if there are no similarly aged bio-babies around) but care-bonding for women (when it happens) is much more lasting than for men. Largely, for men care-bonding doesn’t seem to be much different than pair bonding.

    (But talking to you about care bonding is probably like talking to a fish about mountain climbing).

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  65. on May 28, 2009 at 5:42 pm cz

    Meanwhile, thanks in part to the matriarchy, in Tennessee…. “Man fathers 21 children by 11 different women … and he’s only 29” http://tinyurl.com/kow4jh. Hat tip Lawrence Auster.

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  66. on May 28, 2009 at 5:45 pm doug1

    AKitty-

    BTW, welcome kitty.

    Roissy, a good idea for a post: telling moms of young boys what to do to avoid raising a beta.

    1. Marry a good alpha acting role model of the stable rather than thug variety. Or at least a strong if not great at pickup higher beta type.

    2. Tell him flat up that men should lead women in personal relationships, while also caring about them and listening to them. Do not discourage smooth, intelligent types of macho behavior. Praise it instead. You can discourage thuggish behavior, but do it mostly from the stance that it’s not smart, or anyway not the BEST way. Be unequivocal about the idea men should be strong, not excessively sensitive. Tell him to be like Humphry Bogart not Dustin Hoffman, Russell Crowe not Leo DiCaprio (at least until the last couple of years). Tell him to watch Fight Club. Tell him that real men are willing to fight, without seeking it out. Tell him that it’s far better to stand up for yourself, tough it out, and lose a fight, than to slink away avoiding one.

    3. Tell him to be a leader. If not of a big group, then of a rebel group. If leading is hard for him, tell him to keep trying. In any event tell him to be an original and to craft his own niche, rather than finding one to fit into. Tell him that learning social skills is as important for life success and happiness as getting good grades, or more so. Though both matter.

    4. Tell him there’s a lot of the feminism that permeates our culture that you disagree with. You don’t have to be against women having all sorts of opportunities and presence in the workplace. You should point out to him the rampant misandry that permeats our media culture and schools.

    5. Have him read Roissy’s as he enters puberty.

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  67. on May 28, 2009 at 5:46 pm cz

    Left this great line out:
    “His lawyer … said: ‘The children can’t all be supported by Desmond, so the state of Tennessee has had to step in.'”
    Has to. Get it? Must. By law. Gun to your head. I wonder how much Tenn gets in Federal funds/matching grants/blah blah blah.

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  68. on May 28, 2009 at 5:51 pm PA

    Doug – outstanding 5 points.

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  69. on May 28, 2009 at 5:54 pm Bhetti

    Akitty/Doug: 6. Send him to the Boy’s School my Doug is going to found for the sake of future generations, first recruit of which is PA’s boy.

    Doug:

    I wanted her to take me in her arms and reassure me that everything would be O.K.

    *shudder*

    You’re telling me. One unnatural moment was when ex no.2 needing reassurance hugged me around the waist in this submissive pose in an exaggerated attack of self-pity (over, ironically, excarbating an attack of self-pity another beta was having) and I uncomfortably treat him like a little boy. I’m not sure if all women feel this way but I did hate it and I suspect he even faked it to get attention because I was being Unavailable.

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  70. on May 28, 2009 at 5:56 pm novaseeker

    Well that will certainly help his biological son, and by ‘help’ I mean ‘traumatize for life and make him hate his father’.

    @Cliff —

    Right, so men should just condone cuckolding. I mean, what’s the big deal, right?

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  71. on May 28, 2009 at 6:00 pm maurice

    @Lady Rain – once again, some good thoughts and sentiments in a wallow of misunderstanding and confusion.

    the whole point of the post is that (a) is a raging Beta – so yes, he gets that award because he brought it on himself.

    the business about men as victims is mainly about the law, courts, social expectations, media, etc. the rules of society that are slanted against traditional male roles and prerogatives – to detriment of both men and women. that’s a perennial theme here.

    but men are not victims in every individual interaction with a woman – quite the opposite; the advice here is to use pscyhology, game etc. for men to get their way with women. the opposite of victimhood, the opposite of “mentally weak”.

    you should really learn a bit more about game and male psychology, and think a lot more about them. your posts would improve if you did.

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  72. on May 28, 2009 at 6:03 pm maurice

    @heloise- welcome back – hope you are studying hard. will doug jr. be on the shelf at that new school…?

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  73. on May 28, 2009 at 6:04 pm Mr.M

    maurice –

    I’m still not sure why she tries to come on to a PUA-based blog to try and dissuade its readers and claim….well, whatever she is trying to claim….

    ……..

    @LR

    Game is what you make of it, you dumb bitch.

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  74. on May 28, 2009 at 6:09 pm Cliff Arroyo

    novaseeker,

    disapproval of murder =/= approval of cuckolding

    Basically the guy has a choice to do what’s best for his ego and doing what’s best for his son (which most likely does not include murdering said son’s brother). It’s a crappy choice and the woman deserves contempt but if he wants his son to thrive then he swallows some bile and does what’s best for him.

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  75. on May 28, 2009 at 6:12 pm Mr.M

    doug –

    those points are basically a big reason why I’d like to have kids, should i choose to…to pass on the wealth of information.

    unless i have a girl, sigh.

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  76. on May 28, 2009 at 6:17 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “unless i have a girl”

    The self-described alpha’s worst nightmare. Having to raise a beautiful little girl (no alpha could love a daughter who wasn’t at least an 8) to be gamed, pumped and dumped by the ilk of Roissy.

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  77. on May 28, 2009 at 6:20 pm Chuck

    doug1:

    “1. Marry a good alpha acting role model of the stable rather than thug variety. Or at least a strong if not great at pickup higher beta type. ”

    good list overall, but this first point raises some questions. the issue of the true definition of alpha/beta is causing a problem. boys need alpha men, in the classical strong father mold, not necessarily alpha men in the PUA mold. the fact that you delineate alpha acting and beta type in the role of stable father is not correct.

    we can’t have knack of pick-up as a criterion for raising boys because most men, by natural design, aren’t very good at it. if we confine women to choosing men based upon pick-up skill or alpha/higher betas, then we will only continue the cycle of cads, which doesn’t bode well for society.

    anyway, i the point of your list is well-taken, just thought i’d make that little distinction.

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  78. on May 28, 2009 at 6:22 pm Chuck

    cliff,

    fwiw, i was only joking about drowning the bastard child…a thorough castigation and constant ridicule would suffice…as well as a refusal by the “father” to provide one iota for it.

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  79. on May 28, 2009 at 6:30 pm novaseeker

    Basically the guy has a choice to do what’s best for his ego and doing what’s best for his son

    @Cliff —

    Again, you seem to be saying here men should suck it up when they are cuckolded. That’s ridiculous. He should refuse to raise the other man’s child.

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  80. on May 28, 2009 at 6:31 pm Laz

    Posted in wrong thread by mistake

    BOTM Candidate #3

    http://www.russiatoday.com/Top_News/2009-05-28/Love_gets_Bollywood_star_stranded_in_Russia.html

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  81. on May 28, 2009 at 6:37 pm doug1

    Bhetti-

    You’re telling me. One unnatural moment was when ex no.2 needing reassurance hugged me around the waist in this submissive pose in an exaggerated attack of self-pity (over, ironically, excarbating an attack of self-pity another beta was having) and I uncomfortably treat him like a little boy.

    *shudder*

    You have my sympathy.

    See how infinitely better off you are now, even if it’s only cyber?

    I’m not sure if all women feel this way but I did hate it

    I think the great majority do. Some / many though think they should respond and even encourage it some, due to the prevailing “sensitive men” cultural propaganda. Then it eats away at them and their attraction to the guy in question often in a confusing or displaced way. I.e. she may pick out other things to ascribe her distaste to, ironically some of which might be efforts on his part to stand up for himself (to little too late).

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  82. on May 28, 2009 at 6:37 pm Cliff Arroyo

    Chuck, how do you propose to do that without alienating the bio child?

    I doubt if the boys are going to care about his anguish. From their point of view they’re brothers (sibling competition and squabbling won’t change that) and there’s hardly any way for the guy to mistreat or neglect the changeling that won’t turn his bio son against him. It’s a crappy situation for him, but walking away form both of them will do less damage than maintaining a loving relationship with the bio kid and treating the changeling like crap. And, walking away will also do damage.

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  83. on May 28, 2009 at 6:42 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “He should refuse to raise the other man’s child”

    A noble thought. But in practical terms the choices are:

    1. raise both

    2. walk away and write the bio son off

    Raising one and not the other is not on the table.

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  84. on May 28, 2009 at 6:42 pm Chuck

    off-topic, but i thought this might help sway some “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” holdouts…the author of these blog posts has some interesting insight:

    http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200804/all-stereotypes-are-true-except-ii-beauty-is-in-the-eye-th

    http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200805/all-stereotypes-are-true-except-iii-beauty-is-only-skin-de

    the author states that this myth is one of the first monoliths overturned by evolutionary psychology.

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  85. on May 28, 2009 at 6:48 pm Chuck

    well, if he doesn’t have the means or volition to fight for full custody of his bio kid, he will have to suffer the consequences that might arise if he tries to keep the non-bio out of his life.

    given that the kids are technically twins, they will likely form a strong bond that will cause undue anger towards the father for such a move. so, i feel for the guy’s predicament. i personally voted him BOTM because his obese wife felt the need to fuck another guy the same day she fucked him.

    the worst part is that the man’s hands are tied by the legal system.

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  86. on May 28, 2009 at 6:52 pm joel

    Number 1 is the beta of the month. No contest. The black guy is just not getting good legal advice. Not his fault.

    Now, #1 would have avoided this by just visiting Roissy’s website, just one time. Or by spending time with a bunch of other women, just to find out what was out there. Didn’t he have any male friends who could have helped him out in this regard? Certainly, he would have found something better than his old friend.

    And getting married a 2nd time while paying $4000 a month to his ex-wife.

    Sad. This just shows how poor our educational system is.

    I wonder if readers of the NY Time will sympathize with him or despise him?

    I hope someone sends a link to this blog to this man. He really needs to look into a mirror.

    And, he needs to dump this 2nd wife. Fast.

    I won’t generalize from this man to all the male writers for the NY Times, but, he does fit the pattern you would expect.

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  87. on May 28, 2009 at 6:52 pm Cliff Arroyo

    “if he doesn’t have the means or volition to fight for full custody of his bio kid”

    The chances or any court in the world splitting the kids are somewhat less than zero.

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  88. on May 28, 2009 at 6:59 pm Bhetti

    Lady Rain is clearly suffering a case of self-imposed sexual frustration, all that emotion is being poured into commenting and you guys need to give her a break.

    Raising a kid: Don’t forget the sports and activity from an early age. Say no to couch potato and yes to confidence in his body and ability to defend himself.

    Doug: CYBER?! Noone’s cybering. *blushes like hell* That’s not what you meant. No, it isn’t.

    I also apologise for the ‘my Doug’ as soon as I spotted a newcomer. I’m not reflexively, automatically jealous. No, I’m not. I will not spoil your fun. Your fun that you oh so enthusiastically embrace. With every eligible female commenter. Not that fun. I’m special. Yes, I am. They’re no threat.

    Damn you. This torture is going to be the sweet death of me. How am I supposed to concentrate on my work when I know you’re skilfully e-chatting up every e-skirt that passes by, and resist the urge to check on what’s going on?

    But maybe another chick will go all the cyber way when I won’t. Noo.

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  89. on May 28, 2009 at 7:08 pm Traveller

    I don’t know about Beta of the Month, but when it comes to Alphas, Silvio Berlusconi is still king. As if we needed more proof:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8072646.stm

    An affair with a seventeen year-old at age seventy-two! The best part? His kids come out to defend him! Amazing.

    “Would you want your children brought up by this man?”

    Wrong question. Question is – who wouldn’t?

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  90. on May 28, 2009 at 7:09 pm Default User

    AKitty,doug1

    telling moms of young boys what to do to avoid raising a beta.

    I will add to Doug’s comments.

    As soon as he gets his first boner he should start trying to get as many cuties as is possible for a teenager. He will need encouragement and guidance to achieve this successfully and safely.

    He should not wait until his twenties to learn game. In his twenties energy should be towards building his life not scoring pussy. At this stage he should be at ease with scoring women. Women at this stage should be a pleasant sideshow to the real work of building his life. He should have no anxieties in this arena diverting him from his real mission.

    I doubt mommy wil help here, so it us up to daddy (or the Internet, if daddy is not around).

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  91. on May 28, 2009 at 7:12 pm maurice

    @bhetti- “all the cyber way”? That could actually mean a number of things, not one of which reflect well on your e-honor. Fear not: you are first in the e-heart of your beloved Abelard. As I am sure he will reassure you shortly. Now- Back To Work! Don’t youhave finals to prepare for?

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  92. on May 28, 2009 at 7:15 pm Firepower

    i’m going with #1. I found it, but was shamelessly Bogarted by a kj with ample time while I was saving lives in the ER.

    besides, a black guy will only get a lawyer when he’s facing 18 to life,

    from The Man –

    not a child

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  93. on May 28, 2009 at 7:15 pm doug1

    Chuck–

    good list overall, but this first point raises some questions. the issue of the true definition of alpha/beta is causing a problem. boys need alpha men, in the classical strong father mold, not necessarily alpha men in the PUA mold.

    Roissy himself doesn’t equate alpha with being a PUA artist. Instead he uses it to mean the men who are most attractive to women, especially for casual or semi casual (relationship hopeful but not at all yet assured) sex. (BTW Roissy mostly goes after girls who want the later.) By far the greatest number of alphas are natural or self taught ones (who haven’t read up on game). Most of those aren’t thugs but rather leaders or otherwise high status in one hierarchy or another. PUA artists are in part short circuity the system, and in part regaining traditional male macho and confident playfully teasing wisdom. Nonetheless there is a difference between alpha in society and alpha to women.

    You will note that I included higher betas of a certain sort, strong men types, in the recommended to marry category.

    Let me remind you that I subscribe to PA’s theory that a lot more men could be alpha, or alpha enough to do it for women emotionally and sexually, rather than it being a fixed percentage no matter what. They need to regain macho flirting and woman handling skills from less feminist cultures to do so.

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  94. on May 28, 2009 at 7:15 pm Bhetti

    Is saying some men deserve to be cuckolded like saying a woman deserves to be raped or that she deserves to be cheated on?

    Chuck:

    http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200804/all-stereotypes-are-true-except-ii-beauty-is-in-the-eye-th

    Bet Doug’s the one exception that has his scale skewed to thinking they’re pretty. Unless he doesn’t like their personality, then he doesn’t.

    But I really, really appreciate that he does think so, anyway, and don’t care what the others think… [oh, dear.]

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  95. on May 28, 2009 at 7:20 pm El Guapo

    I vote for the cuck as BOTM.

    I’m sorry but my tolerance towards these events is zero.

    No man ANYWHERE should raise a child not his own with rare exceptions.

    Back in the day of my hedonistic prime I indulged in couple’s domination. One alpha woman (with her filthy rich sissy) approached me after a particularly good weekend to ask if I would impregnate her. I have no trouble walking all over an omega male pyschologically and I have no trouble physically destroying them either, but I draw the line, regardless of wealth and self-esteem at having them raise another man’s child.

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  96. on May 28, 2009 at 7:21 pm Bhetti

    Is saying some men deserve to be cuckolded like saying a woman deserves to be raped or that she deserves to be cheated on?

    Clarification: I mean, practically speaking. Which is it closer to? LR’s judgement has been called into question heavily and so on: how much does that apply to this sort of situation?

    maurice: I know you are only thinking of my best interests but only my Doug tells me what to do. And decides whether there will be Doug jr. or not in the Boy’s School. And what it’s called.

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  97. on May 28, 2009 at 7:25 pm Firepower

    i see our magnanimous host saw fit to mention the pert and fragrant redbush of his stripper target.

    subsequently, Lady Bloodraine felt compelled to put up a new pic, sporting a red dye job.

    coincidence? I think not.

    *shudders*

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  98. on May 28, 2009 at 7:26 pm Bhetti

    LR: It was not directed at anything you have said but an ineffective form of support based on something you said about self-imposed meditation regarding you actually not being controlled by lust, but it was a while ago. Just thoughtlessly messing: you’re right to look at it with suspicion, I think, however.

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  99. on May 28, 2009 at 7:38 pm Chuck

    Traveller:

    nice link. here’s something i wrote about it a few weeks ago:

    http://chuckross.blogspot.com/2009/05/silvio-berlusconi-is-alpha.html

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  100. on May 28, 2009 at 7:43 pm Firepower

    Lady Raiyne

    Firepower–

    huh? that’s my default pic for pretty much everything online… nothing is “new” about it. way to be observant though.

    your punctuation is interesting

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  101. on May 28, 2009 at 7:47 pm Max A

    Freaky Coincidence….

    My LJBF high-school hottie 20+ years later has just started contacting me…

    she’s still beautiful (for her age) but now I have money…

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  102. on May 28, 2009 at 7:48 pm Firepower

    My preciooous wants the 10-ply strawberry scented toilet pape…

    holy carny christ i damn near lost it on that one.

    I shall thusly celebrate with Single Malt

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  103. on May 28, 2009 at 7:50 pm Bhetti

    LR: Ah, right, addressing the wrong subject. This is more within the wider debate of points that have been made here about cuckoldry already. It is felt as something that should be taken seriously, and considered a crime equivalent to rape (if definitely not the same thing). The act of cuckoldry being defined as (a) cheating on a man (b) conceiving another man’s child (c) lying about it (d) him acting as provider for this child without this knowledge.

    Anyway, if you disagree with that based on crime v. society distinctions or any others, that’s fine.

    Was just wondering about wrongness as applied to ‘you deserve it’ thinking fallacies when I posed the question. Not specifically directed at you again, though you seem to be on my mind for some reason.

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  104. on May 28, 2009 at 8:00 pm Max A

    If “bi-paternal twins in apparently 1 in 12”

    Think about what that means for all of us guys…

    1 in 12 women just happen to be double tagging guys on exactly the fertile days of the month what are they doing the other 22/28 days of the month (i.e. the other 78% of the time?)

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  105. on May 28, 2009 at 8:03 pm maurice

    @MaxA- run, don’t walk, in the opposite direction. Have you learned nothing here?

    @Firepower – so it was you who chased Kassy away? Why would you do such a thing?

    @bhetti- of course I only have your and your beloved’s best interests at heart. Glad you understand.

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  106. on May 28, 2009 at 8:05 pm Default User

    Firepower

    …now that i chased kassyk away…

    I am not sure you will be chasing this one away.

    Indeed, even KassyK sneaks back now and again.
    [Perhaps she waits until you are not around.]

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  107. on May 28, 2009 at 8:11 pm joel

    Max: Your LJBF girl looking for you should be great fun. You’ll be in complete control, not like the this month’s Beta. Mess around with her and report back so we can all enjoy the fun.

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  108. on May 28, 2009 at 8:19 pm Firepower

    Firepower – so it was you who chased Kassy away? Why would you do such a thing?

    her botox wore off and she is heavily laden with my bastard twins. besides, how much breathless femininity can I, but one man, soak up

    @default user
    I am always around. Like Baby Jesus

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  109. on May 28, 2009 at 8:21 pm Max A

    I know guys – I know –

    thats the beauty of aging for “bookish” guys – all of the pain that we go thru at 15 is well an truely erased by being 35 and seriously liquid!

    – Its just really amusing it must be a common tactic for girls once they feel “the wall” approaching…

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  110. on May 28, 2009 at 8:22 pm doug1

    Lady Rain —

    Yes rape is a crime and always has been. Female adultery isn’t in western societies, or even married women conceiving another man’s child, but it certainly is in some societies. As well in most other than ours in the Anglosphere, it leads to very severe consequences. I.e. the husband’s right to cast her out with NO money, amidst huge social scorn, and with only poor future prospects in either work or another man.

    We should bring some of that back.

    As well what is rape is hugely too broad. Even what is legally rape, as opposed to what is rape on college campuses or in rad feminist fantasies.

    I don’t think there should be such a thing as marital rape. No that isn’t how I’d go or I think men should go. But I think it’s just wrong to make that illegal. I DO think married women owe their husbands sex. No that isn’t the kind of sex I want, but you know it helps sometimes with some women (or many women sometimes) for that to be the social norm. As it always has been in all societies until wonderful fucking feminism came along.

    I’m an anti feminist. (Well except for the very basics, but I’ve even been reconsidering some of them lately, due largely to here.)

    I think men should be able to slap their wives or girlfriends without any legal consequence whatsoever. No it’s not something I advocate. But it’s a huge power grab of feminists to make that illegal and the fear of accusation of it, or even rarely doing it, have big consequences for men up the social scale, potentially. Beating up you wife is something different.

    I don’t give one rat’s ass how much you’ll fume and get pissed off about this, feminist. Many men here agree with me on this. Roissy certainly does. (By no means all.)

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  111. on May 28, 2009 at 8:22 pm Default User

    Firepower

    I am always around. Like Baby Jesus

    Hey, be careful, I think he died in his thirties.

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  112. on May 28, 2009 at 8:26 pm doug1

    Default User–

    Indeed, even KassyK sneaks back now and again.

    I’m sweet on KassyK.

    And no, despite Bhetti’s vile and libelous accusations, I’m not close to sweet on all females that show up here.

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  113. on May 28, 2009 at 8:27 pm Comment_Oil

    Well, oil’s good for a nice solid drop now or in the next week.

    Silver just cracked 15 dollars.

    GM is preparing to file for bankruptcy.

    The Talking Muppets on the financial channel are talking about how OPEC isn’t a cartel.

    And, what clinches it, is NOAA just issued an advisory on Tropical Depression 1. RIGHT ON TIME.

    http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/index.shtml
    http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/A1.html

    NOAA says:
    A tropical depression is whatever I want it to be…

    But NOAA wouldn’t lie, would they?

    Ah, to be young again.

    I could make sense, but I don’t want to.

    Current price of oil, about 65. We’ll see how I’m crazy on June 12. Since me being crazy has already been established.

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  114. on May 28, 2009 at 8:30 pm doug1

    I am not for example hot for L. Rain(e) aka Messalina.

    Nor AKitty, despite Bhetti’s vile accusations. (Yet anyway.)

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  115. on May 28, 2009 at 8:32 pm Default User

    doug1

    I’m not close to sweet on all females that show up here.

    Well, you did not flirt with Biting Beaver…
    🙂

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  116. on May 28, 2009 at 8:40 pm Master Dogen

    First of all.. this is the best thread in a while on this blog…

    I see it’s getting derailed a bit, but it goes a good 50 comments on the actual post. How refreshing!

    Second of all, this is quite late, but the mention of the hunky IIIIIII LOOOOOOOOOOVE YOUUUUUUUUU LORENNNNNNNN guy makes me have a bit of hope. This blog gets shit tons of hits. That guy was almost certainly made aware by somebody that there was a thread about him here.

    I can see him reading through the comments getting very pissed off and defensive, then clicking here and there and starting to read, feeling humiliated and pissed off. But then coming back the next day and reading more and slowly realizing (A) what a chump he’s been and (B) how it doesn’t have to be that way. He’s young enough and clearly energetic enough, plus he has huge guns; maybe someday he’ll be an honorary inductee into the hall of Lesser Alphas. That’s good on Roissy.

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  117. on May 28, 2009 at 8:41 pm maurice

    @doug- what guy could not be sweet on Kassy?

    @default- he came back though.

    @MaxA- I know- we just get better with age, don’t we?

    @doug- a little extreme, but (barely) defensible.

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  118. on May 28, 2009 at 8:42 pm aoefe

    @doug

    “I don’t think there should be such a thing as marital rape. … I think men should be able to slap their wives or girlfriends without any legal consequence whatsoever”

    At the risk of some calling me an ass-kisser or a doug/default pleaser I just want to state for the record I agree with what Doug said. However prior to the wedding the expectations should clearly laid out. The man should let his wife know that although he may listen to her reasons for not wanting sex, he’ll decide if in fact they will have it. And if she says no while in the marriage, well she’s blown her acceptance of the situation she married into and he takes ‘it’. Regarding slapping – again clear expectations around boundaries. I don’t think violence should be used for most purposes but it does place the authority in the right spot. Personally there should be very little reason to slap. Some reasons I suppose could include: they hit you, used language you find unacceptable (that will vary from man to man), deception, cheating (and then it’s a slap and divorce), and others you agree on in advance. I think she needs to be included in the beginning negoatiations, but final decision on the rules are yours.

    I know there are people who think I’m here to please the men who comment, but I’m not. I believe what I write and have felt this way for a very long time. I takes some courage believe it or not to write about it. It’s been great for me to read what men want for a change instead of always hearing it from the other side.

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  119. on May 28, 2009 at 8:43 pm Firepower

    Firepower

    Hey, be careful, I think he died in his thirties.

    no shit? his thirties?

    holy fuck. now that’s old

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  120. on May 28, 2009 at 8:50 pm Default User

    maurice

    he came back though.

    And so did Kassy (briefly), so everything is even.

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  121. on May 28, 2009 at 8:54 pm Mike

    Alpha of the month?

    http://news.aol.com/article/man-fathers-20-kids/501977

    “A man who has fathered at least 20 children — and possibly as many as 21 — is proving a challenge for the state of Tennessee.

    Desmond Hachett is only 29, but he told WVLT, a Knoxville, Tenn., CBS affiliate, that he’s impregnated at least 11 women. Twice he’s fathered four children in the same year, he said. “

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  122. on May 28, 2009 at 9:02 pm doug1

    Default User —

    Well, you did not flirt with Biting Beaver…

    Et tu Brute?

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  123. on May 28, 2009 at 9:07 pm maurice

    @LR- you are off-base again. missing the history and context.

    @default- so Kassy is the counterpart to the Messiah? Only in a world where Roissy is God.

    @aeofe- you are a jewel, a gem. Please stick around. Even though I disagree with you and Doug on this- beating a woman is ALWAYS wrong, even when she deserves it. That’s the obligation that goes along with the privilege of being an Alpha Male- you don’t use your strength for ill.if she misbehaves,dump her before causing physical pain. If you are a true Alpha and she loves you, the threat of that will bring her in line. If not, you’re better off without her.

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  124. on May 28, 2009 at 9:07 pm Firepower

    maurice

    what guy could not be sweet on Kassy?

    she’s into cosplay – has that Elizabeth Bathory vibe

    finefantastic is the dirty sexy wench built for capturing the souls of nerds

    hey, if MechaMessalina fought Mega Gundam Jezebel who’d win?

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  125. on May 28, 2009 at 9:10 pm Breeze

    I voted for beta B but after reading some of the comments I wish I had voted otherwise. Beta B is someone who probably couldn’t have done much better whereas Beta A could have done much better. He was educated and rich. He could have blown his money fucking hot whores and snorting coke, he could have been stringing cougars along (and cougars younger than his wife), he could have probably married some girl in her late twenties, all with minimal effort.
    If he had put in a decent amount of effort he could have become a player and moved upto lesser alpha. A bit of game coupled with money will open most girl’s legs. He could have been fucking younger sluts and not bothered to settle down.

    However, he just keeps digging his hole deeper. And the comment about him being one of those guys who gushes with love for Obama is right.

    This man is dangerous in his betatude. He will try and influence others to follow him. With his book deal he could even try for an academic position or a maybe a regulatory position, somewhere where he holds power. Betas with power are dangerous; everything alpha offends them and they want to bring to the world the same mediocrity, emptiness and unrealised self loathing they feel inside.

    Beta B though never had much chance at anything greater.

    On a side note concerning rape. A woman who is drunk should be considered to have consented. A man who is drunk should not be considered a rapist. This should be the default position at law with the onus on he who asserts to prove otherwise.
    He said/she said accusations should not hold any water. Without evidence to the contrary the presumption must be towards innocence.
    The legal maxim it is better that 99 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man go to prison should be at the basis of all rape and sexual assault legislation.

    Western legal systems are based on the ideal of individual liberty being paramount.

    I know some of you will object to this and say that women should be safe when they get drunk, and in an ideal world they should be. However, ours is not an ideal world. If the cost of even one man’s rightful liberty is that all women must show more responsibility when drinking than they should bare it with pride as a mark of the fairest form of civilisation ever to exist on this earth.

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  126. on May 28, 2009 at 9:11 pm Default User

    doug1

    Et tu Brute?

    A joke fine sir, a joke. Let’s not make much ado about nothing.

    🙂

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  127. on May 28, 2009 at 9:14 pm xsplat

    cz

    Meanwhile, thanks in part to the matriarchy, in Tennessee…. “Man fathers 21 children by 11 different women … and he’s only 29″ http://tinyurl.com/kow4jh. Hat tip Lawrence Auster.

    I guess my 11 (known) impregnations of 9 girls is no biggie then.

    Thank goodness for herbal abortifactants.

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  128. on May 28, 2009 at 9:14 pm aoefe

    @maurice

    I agree it would be unnessary if she loved ‘her alpha’. she wouldn’t need the actual physical correction, but as you mentioned she still knows its possible by threat. Which places you as her authority. Actually having to use it would mean a very serious look at the relationship, you’re right.

    I’m heading out on a real life date so I’ll catch you later gaters.

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  129. on May 28, 2009 at 9:15 pm doug1

    Lady Rain(e)–

    I don’t know if you referring to me as “aka Messalina” is in reference to the Roman Empress or if you are accusing me of being someone else AGAIN,

    Demonstrating once again just how brilliant and socially perceptive you really are.

    Would it help if I called you “the whore of Babylon”? Maybe you’d comprehend that reference?

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  130. on May 28, 2009 at 9:16 pm xsplat

    cz

    Meanwhile, thanks in part to the matriarchy, in Tennessee…. “Man fathers 21 children by 11 different women … and he’s only 29″ Hat tip Lawrence Auster.

    I guess my 11 (known) impregnations of 9 girls is no biggie then.

    Thank goodness for herbal abortifactants.

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  131. on May 28, 2009 at 9:16 pm Default User

    maurice

    Re your Messiah comment: See my reply to doug1 above.
    [just joking, based on word/idea play]

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  132. on May 28, 2009 at 9:21 pm doug1

    aoefe

    You understand me just as I meant it. It doesn’t surprise me, but I can’t help it if it makes me feel warmer towards you.

    I DON’T advocate slapping women. I’ve done it once. It wasn’t very hard. I regretted it. Not hugely, but I did. She had slapped me twice hard and defied me with utter rage. She was essentially taunting me that she could slap me and I couldn’t do a damn thing about it, or she’d call the cops. Well she didn’t but calmed down. Still afterwards there were recriminations all around the feminist/legal hogwash.

    The thing is the demonization of it is part of the neutering of men.

    The balance that existed in 40’s movies seems to me to be about right. Being a wife beater was terrible. A slap not so bad, but something that should be very rare, and preferably never needed/done.

    What I’m against is the idea that a man absolutely can’t no matter what. I’m against that emasculation.

    I guess what I’m saying is the remote possibility should be there, but that’s what it should be.

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  133. on May 28, 2009 at 9:23 pm AKitty

    Thanks for the advice re: boys. I don’t mean to hijack this thread, but it’s hard not to read stories like the ones above without wondering: Okay, how do I make sure to raise strong men? (Yeah, I know it’s mainly their father’s job, but….) I had to chuckle at the advice to let the boys have as many cuties as possible in high school: it does seem to give a man permanent self-esteem. And yes, yes, yesss to Crowe over DiCaprio!

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  134. on May 28, 2009 at 9:24 pm Default User

    maurice

    In this thread, so far:
    “baby Jesus”
    “Messiah”
    “the whore of Babylon”

    Are End Times here?

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  135. on May 28, 2009 at 9:25 pm maurice

    @firepower- “cosplay”? wtf is that? She’s a girly girl – either you dig it or you don’t. Also, Who t f is Elizabeth Bathory? Pardon my ignorance.
    Finefantastic is cute but appears to live in Sault St. Marie, the ultimate flyover nothing town. To realize her potential, she needs to trade up to the big city and prove her mettle there.

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  136. on May 28, 2009 at 9:26 pm David on ipod

    I would argue that the second man is the bigger beta due to the fact that his wife is far uglier. It is one thing to be cuckolded by a hot woman but it is far lower to be done by an ugly woman. As for the first man, at least his wife is good looking for her age.

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  137. on May 28, 2009 at 9:33 pm doug1

    “Lady” Messalina Rain(e)

    It doesn’t make me angry, it makes me feel sorry for you that you are so lazy that you cannot be responsible for your own life and stop blaming it on society.

    You do do you?

    Sorry for me for bedding hotties in the triple digits? Sorry for me for never taking shit? Sorry for me for my very large success? Very. Sorry for me for living with a hot early thirties woman despite being WAY older than her. Sorry for me for being the only guy on here to have rather inadvertantly flirted with a girl her to the point where she’s nuts about me and actually devoted, even though she’s way too young for me (she knows my age, and I mean even more so) and knows about my RL girl obviously and an ocean apart?

    Just what are you sorry for me about, L. Messelina Rain(e)?

    Who I seem to confuse with who, exactly, according to you?

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  138. on May 28, 2009 at 9:35 pm Breeze

    @ AKitty: You cannot raise your boys to be strong men. You need a strong man as a role model. After a certain age boys simply do not respond to a mother’s attempts at control or education.

    I am not saying you need a boyfriend or husband, merely a male friend who is strong and knows what he is doing with women and with life. Someone they can take problems to and who can teach them.

    And don’t make the mistake of giving them a beta or herb role model, or any other ball-less imposter. That damage will take years to undo.

    What you yourself can do is: Never tease them about girls. Never undermine their self esteem. Let them do stupid things, like falling out of trees, crashing bikes, getting in fights, the sort of things boys do. Don’t pamper and coddle them.

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  139. on May 28, 2009 at 9:35 pm doug1

    AKitty–

    I don’t mean to hijack this thread,

    That’s the last thing to worry about around here. All Roissy threads have been hijacked for a very long time now. It’s part of the culture here.

    The only question is, are you doing it in a way people like. So far you’re A OK.

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  140. on May 28, 2009 at 9:36 pm doug1

    AKitty–

    Oh, there’s usually multiple or competitive hijackings.

    All part of an afternoon or evening at Roissy’s.

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  141. on May 28, 2009 at 9:38 pm maurice

    @default- end times for sure. We already knew that, right?

    @AKitty- welcome, stick around.

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  142. on May 28, 2009 at 9:39 pm Default User

    doug1, AKitty

    **Hijack**
    OK everyone stay in your seats this thread is heading to Cuba.

    Allah Fubar!

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  143. on May 28, 2009 at 9:40 pm David on ipod

    I would also note that for betas the desire to please women for some of us can come from watch arguments between our parents where we take mom’s side and we end up subconscously vowing to not make women be unhappy by creating arguments. For some of us, doing what women tell us to do gives emotional benefits while saying no can sometimes haunt us.

    In the case of the first beta his failed marriage lead him to believe that he did an awful job and that more pleasing would work this time. I also suspect that he didn’t say no out of love and because as a NYT writer he felt that he and his wife had certain social obligations to meet in order to be a upper middle class family.

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  144. on May 28, 2009 at 9:40 pm GNPs are for Apes

    The first is more of a Beta, hands down.

    1) He should have had a lot more options, given his FAME and life in NY (Fame is the one thing that supercedes Game).

    2) Did he learn nothing from his first marriage where he is paying 60% of his money in child support?

    3) That Argentine bitch must have run out of options if she ended up getting nothing more than a divorced man with just $2777 a month to live off of.

    The second example is not quite as Beta. Rather, it is just black people being black people.

    It is well established that black men have no ‘floor’ of looks below which they will not fuck a woman. They will fuck a 1, even if they also have access to a 9.

    Also, the fatter the better, so the obesity of this woman is not a negative, but possibly a positive for both of the black men who fucked her on the same day.

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  145. on May 28, 2009 at 9:42 pm Default User

    maurice

    end times for sure. We already knew that, right?

    Yes. Whiskey 3.14
    And the beta shall arise and smite all

    And the world shall be thrown into great torment.

    Woe unto the tatooed thug for vengence is ours sayeth the beta.

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  146. on May 28, 2009 at 9:47 pm GNPs are for Apes

    The shear horrific whale ugliness of beta #2’s finance tips the scales on two pathetic choices to him.

    Among black women, she is about average, both in body shape and facial attractiveness.

    However, let me explain the difference between a black man and xsplat :

    A black man will happily fuck a 1, but he knows that ‘she’ is a 1. A black man is fully aware of what a 10 is and what a 1 is.

    xsplat, however, has a half-scale. A 5 for the rest of us is a 10 for xsplat. A 3 is an 8, and a 1 is a 6 for xsplat.

    Where is Obese-dian when we need him?

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  147. on May 28, 2009 at 9:52 pm PA

    — for betas the desire to please women for some of us can come from watch arguments between our parents where we take mom’s side and we end up subconscously vowing to not make women be unhappy by creating arguments.

    Definitely some truth here.

    — I also suspect that he didn’t say no […] because as a NYT writer he felt that he and his wife had certain social obligations to meet in order to be a upper middle class family.

    I know upper-upper middle class DC establishment types; a few quite well personally. They really do think this way.

    That’s why I like the fact that uber-yuppies consider me prole and proles consider me uber-yuppie: I have no ridiculous expectations to meet.

    Also:

    – Per his last backhand at LR: Doug is a fucking cool badass!

    – Whiskey 3.14: Default is a witty little devil!

    – and Gunner must have finally gotten that helicopter flight for his overdue leave.

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  148. on May 28, 2009 at 9:55 pm Mr.M

    akitty/breeze:

    why can’t she raise a man from a boy? i see no reason why its not possible. it might, or most definitely, will be harder than having a true alpha-male to emulate…but its not impossible.

    I think the most important thing a single mother could do for her son is to inform her that women, including herself, are not angels/infallible/incorruptible. He needs to learn that quickly.

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  149. on May 28, 2009 at 9:55 pm GNPs are for Apes

    How horny does a woman have to be to jump from one unprotected cock to another in the same day? How stupid?

    Answer : She is black.

    All this is par for the course for black people. Nothing atypical here at all.

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  150. on May 28, 2009 at 9:57 pm doug1

    “Lady” Messalina Rain(e)–

    Also I wouldn’t consider a reference to Messalina (who was a Roman Empress, you idiot) as an insult considering she was also very rich and very powerful (but I’m sure you knew that)

    And then executed by her husband for cuckolding him in a notorious way.

    I’m sure you know that. You do don’t you? Right?

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  151. on May 28, 2009 at 10:02 pm PA

    why can’t she raise a man from a boy? i see no reason why its not possible. it might, or most definitely, will be harder than having a true alpha-male to emulate…but its not impossible.

    I think the most important thing a single mother could do for her son is to inform her that women, including herself, are not angels/infallible/incorruptible. He needs to learn that quickly.

    Gotta call bullshit. Pretty lie.

    Making a boy into a man is not just about chatter, yapping, or “teaching” him. It’s also about the testosterone in the house shaping guiding the boy’s development on a chemical level.

    It’s about seeing how a man deals with a woman at the house, how he walks, talks, deals with shit, barks orders, threatens when necessary, fixes things, gets passionate about something, tells him who he is and where he comes from, and so on.

    A mother isn’t gonna teach a boy shit, except as an adjunct to the father’s main role as manhood coach. To a boy over 13, a single mom is going to be either a sainted statue on a pedestal or a screeching nag.

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  152. on May 28, 2009 at 10:02 pm Default 666

    PA

    Default is a witty little devil!

    As is PA.
    [I almost missed the joke]

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  153. on May 28, 2009 at 10:03 pm David on ipod

    Re: Mr M

    I thought boys learned that women aren’t perfect in school. Hell, I was made fun of by a groups of black girls in elementary school with no safety net in the other students who were merely less visicious.

    OTOH, I worshiped the Queen because I thought she was better than other women.

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  154. on May 28, 2009 at 10:07 pm Michael Wears a Hat

    “Making a boy into a man is not just about chatter, yapping, or “teaching” him. It’s also about the testosterone in the house shaping guiding the boy’s development on a chemical level.

    It’s about seeing how a man deals with a woman at the house, how he walks, talks, deals with shit, barks orders, threatens when necessary, fixes things, gets passionate about something, tells him who he is and where he comes from, and so on.

    A mother isn’t gonna teach a boy shit, except as an adjunct to the father’s main role as manhood coach. To a boy over 13, a single mom is going to be either a sainted statue on a pedestal or a screeching nag.”

    So you think masculine behavior is only about the amount of testosterone in a household? How do you explain the fact that plenty of PUAs learn from books and videos, then begin to display more masculine behavior?

    Masculine behavior can be learned from theory without having testosterone in the household. It may be more difficult, but thats no reason for a woman to abdicate any attempt to raise her son to be masculine.

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  155. on May 28, 2009 at 10:09 pm LILGRL

    @ GNPs are for Apes & the other poster

    “How horny does a woman have to be to jump from one unprotected cock to another in the same day? How stupid?

    Answer : She is black.

    All this is par for the course for black people. Nothing atypical here at all.”

    Doesn’t it make sense for a woman who is cheating to have sex with her SO as soon as possible after cheating on him, in the event that a pregnancy does occur? This would be a way to cover her tracks. Unless, of course, it backfires on her. Like it did here. Although, I guess, it didn’t really backfire. But still.

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  156. on May 28, 2009 at 10:09 pm maurice

    @david, default- definitely something to that, especially in single-mother households.

    @LR – I dig your spunk and brass, I really do, but you are out of your element here. You are totally misreading both roissy and doug. Stick around, though- listen (read) more than you speak (write) and you will learn important things and improve your life.

    @default- no need to belabor the point of our own demise. We should enjoy the rich decadence of the moment instead.

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  157. on May 28, 2009 at 10:10 pm Mr.M

    PA –

    disagree. I’m a product of a “family” with no fatherly figure. Its not the most ideal of situation, but I definitely didn’t turn out to be a 1) criminal 2) dead beat 3) woman worshipper.

    Its not hard to learn many of life’s lessons through analysis and observation, through events that happen to you and around you.

    I learned, on my own, what works with women and what does not in relation to game. However, studying game has put a very fine definition to everything i noticed.

    However, like I said, its not ideal to be raised without a male figure, its not out of the question though. and yes, like the statistics show, i’m well aware that its more apt to failure than a typical 2-parent household.

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  158. on May 28, 2009 at 10:11 pm Lawyer from Hell

    Lady Rain –

    “I do indeed understand the game which is why I made reference to other variants of this psychology that would (and do work) just as well, but without hating on an entire gender. Anyone who has studied Psychology, Criminal Profiling, Mentalism, etc. would understand exactly what I am saying here.”

    You are partially correct here. If you know what to look for, or get started down the path, you can find books filled with information. If you hope to learn what you need from Psychology courses in college, you won’t.

    I am curious LR, do you think of women that go back to their physical abusers as participating in their victimhood? If not, because of the psychological victim cycle, then shouldn’t the same kind of sympathy be had for a man stuck in a psychologically abusive situation that he can’t get out of?

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  159. on May 28, 2009 at 10:12 pm gig

    Doesn’t it make sense for a woman who is cheating to have sex with her SO as soon as possible after cheating on him

    true

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  160. on May 28, 2009 at 10:14 pm PA

    Michael/Hat: your book-learned PUAs reinforce my point. They are learning alphahood as catch-up in their late 20s or 30s.

    Mr.M: yours appears to be an excpetion that proves the rule.

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  161. on May 28, 2009 at 10:19 pm wow

    Re: #2… Kudos to both men for sporting any type of wood over that troglodyte…fuck!

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  162. on May 28, 2009 at 10:22 pm Mr.M

    PA –

    I will say, like i recommended to akitty, that I knew the true nature of women at a much earlier age (13-18). that is something any parent can teach…however most (man or woman) do not.

    I agree with a poster above (forget whom) that said game should be honed early in life, and career take precedence in the 20s.

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  163. on May 28, 2009 at 10:24 pm Mr.M

    that i *WISH* i knew the true nature of women, that is.

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  164. on May 28, 2009 at 10:26 pm Breeze

    @ Mr M: A major part of the reason a child of a single mother has a greater chance of becoming a criminal is because of a lack of a male role model. They let their testosterone run wild with them and they end up not being able to control their urges or actions. They don’t have anyone to show them how to act.

    For a better understanding of this look at the link Thursday posted above (repeated here for your benefit): http://therawness.com/myth-of-the-ghetto-alpha-male/

    It concerns the supposed alpha male of the ghetto. These sort of men are very violent and thuglike, which one would mistake as masculine. However a real alpha is controls himself and does more than follow his impulses like an animal. Read it for yourself. It is a very good analysis.

    I am not saying AKitty will be a bad parent, I’m saying she is a woman and cannot think like a man. And even if she could, at the most basic level there comes a time when any boy wants to become a man and will shun his mother in place of his father, or another male role model, in order to understand how to act like a man.
    It is hardwired psychology, you can’t change it.

    A personal anecdote. At about the time I left primary school I was taller than my mother. I had began to ignore her and do what I wanted. The only thing that kept me in line was my father. He was a very strong man and I respected him back then. My brother was even worse. He was simply uncontrollable and very stubborn (the sort of kid who would be diagnosed with ADHD and medicated into stupidity). However he paid attention to everything my father said and always wanted to go and help him working. We lived on a farm and our house was half a kilometre away from the workshed. My brother ran away when he was very young because he wanted to go to work. He is an apprentice mechanic now and has been offered a 60-70K job when he finishes. At 21 that is very good money. It is more than I earned when I left uni.

    @AKitty. Never let anyone try and diagnose your son with ADD or ADHD. They do not exist. We live in a structured society but the human male is not designed for this structured society. They have too much energy and find it hard to concentrate when something is not interesting. If it is interesting then they will pursue it obsessively. I am a borderline genius and found school insufferable. I spent 10% of the time doing work and 90% of the time day dreaming. When it came to a subject I loved I did far more work than was necessary. When I hated it I did the bare minimum. Were my marks not top of the class they would have considered me to have a learning deficiency. My brother isn’t a day dreamer. He hated school and never did well. Give him a practical problem though and he can solve it. Give him an engine and he’ll put it to pieces and put it back together. In his spare time he is currently putting a few cars back together for fun.
    A lot of kids at my school had ADD and ADHD. It was a public school full of kids from poor backgrounds. The only difference between them and me was I wasted time day dreaming and talking to my mate beside me. They wasted time causing trouble. They were medicated not for their own benefit but to control them and stop them disrupting everyone else.
    ADD and ADHD aren’t about helping the person but about controlling them for everyone else’s benefit. Or about dulling them down to make them fit in with the mediocrity of society, if you want to be melodramatic about it.

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  165. on May 28, 2009 at 10:26 pm Michael Wears a Hat

    “Once again you seem to be on the bandwagon of social blame. Basically you’re saying people are “fed” idealized info about the “pros” of marriage without the “cons”. I agree on that.

    However an intelligent responsible adult would then LOOK INTO those very things and carefully consider whether marriage is something they want to enter into being that those cons exist. It doesn’t matter how the cons got there, what matters is if you do your research, you’d know most of these things in advance.

    Once again…. I see no logic all I see is “blame somebody else for my lack of actually THINKING and RESEARCHING a serious life decision like marriage””

    Pretty woman, never had to think.

    Of course an individual should be responsible in learning as much as he or she can about the actions he engages in. But lets face it: we’re all morons, to one degree or another. I can tell you plenty about marketing or finance or baseball or human mating displays or writing a research paper, but I can’t do complex auto repair or design a rocket engine or tell you anything about chemistry or agriculture or adequately judge the moral quality of 95% of the people I interact with over the course of the day. The amount of things I know about is .000000000001% of all the things that could potentially benefit me in knowing about.

    Civilization is the very act of saying “hey, we can’t all know everything, you know this and I’ll know that and we’ll work together.” A good society puts into place rules that effectively allow for the interaction of different people who know different things, but know nothing about one another. Thats one of the reasons American society is the wealthiest in the world: our government is very good at using rules to enable people to work with one another.

    A healthy society depends on honest discussion about the ways in which we interact, and building rules that facilitate that interaction. Our society no longer has an honest discussion about marriage or the rules involved. It is one of the few aspects of interaction in which the lies in society vastly outnumber the truths.

    I’m a smart guy who had to be steeped in pick-up game for almost two years before I started to learn what a disastrous deal modern marriage is for men. There are other ways to learn the truth, but how do you recognize truth from lies? For things as complex as marriage and social interaction, most of us are forced to use family and friends or expert referents to guide us in our behavior. But as far as marriage goes, many of us have friends and family who are just as deluded, and most “experts” are idiots.

    Certainly, we must expect people to do the best job they can to educate themselves about what they’re getting into. But society has completely failed to adequately provide the tools for individuals to educate themselves about marriage. Ignoring that is to ignore the very nature of what makes us civilized.

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  166. on May 28, 2009 at 10:32 pm JAM

    Michael Wears a Hat

    > So you think masculine behavior is only about the amount of testosterone in a household? How do you explain the fact that plenty of PUAs learn from books and videos, then begin to display more masculine behavior?

    PUAs are a rare breed. The ones who make the transition from o m e g a /beta to alpha are exceptionally rare. As a member of a couple of lairs (and the founder of one) back in the day, I can honestly state that the number of men who make it through the winnowing process of

    1) hear about game
    2) think it is cool
    3) read up a bit about it
    4) read a lot about it
    5) meet up with other guys to do something about it
    6) stick at it enough that they become successful

    is maybe 1% of the male population who could benefit. Or maybe it’s 0.01%.

    It’s far FAR better to be programmed the right way from the start. Change assumes that

    a) you recognize there is a problem
    b) you find a solution that works
    c) you do something about it.

    From a society-level perspective, a generation of alpha-fathers teaching their sons would be FAR superior to a handful of guys consciously reprogramming themselves in their 20s and 30s after a decade or more of confused bitterness.

    Most people never peer out of the cave. And many that do are either too terrified or lazy to do anything about it.

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  167. on May 28, 2009 at 10:32 pm doug1

    “Lady” Messalina Rain(e)

    Your latest rants against me aren’t worth responding to, as everyone knows, so I won’t.

    You’ve been owned bitch. (That’s not bitch in a good way.)

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  168. on May 28, 2009 at 10:33 pm Reactionary

    Actually, there’s a good chance the woman in #2 was having sex with more than 2 men in a five day period to land those kind of odds. But I agree with what some other folks have said. Bonobos will be bonobos, so #2 doesn’t really qualify.

    There is ZERO physical spark between Edmund Andrews and his cougar Argentine dominatrix and unlike #2 he has an actual intellect and social consciousness.

    What’s rather discouraging from my middle-aged perspective is that Patricia Andrews would prefer a slightly built nebbish she can suck the remaining life-spark out of to an actual man.

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  169. on May 28, 2009 at 10:35 pm Michael Wears a Hat

    PA –

    “Michael/Hat: your book-learned PUAs reinforce my point. They are learning alphahood as catch-up in their late 20s or 30s.”

    How does that reinforce your point? They’re catching up because their parents didn’t do shit to instill alpha attitudes, that doesn’t mean it isn’t possible for parents to instill alpha attitudes through education. Most parents are feminist women and beta men who don’t know anything about real men, and you can’t teach what you don’t know.

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  170. on May 28, 2009 at 10:36 pm Breeze

    @ Mr M – I’m glad you turned out fine.

    In general: A strong male figure can teach more than how to deal with women. Many failures at life can get laid. However, a strong father figure can teach you how to live with other men, how to handle situations, how to control yourself and your testosterone, how to have a sense of honour and respect and decency to others.

    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream – and not make dreams your master,
    If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breath a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on!”

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with kings – nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And – which is more – you’ll be a Man, my son!

    Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)

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  171. on May 28, 2009 at 10:38 pm Michael Wears a Hat

    “From a society-level perspective, a generation of alpha-fathers teaching their sons would be FAR superior to a handful of guys consciously reprogramming themselves in their 20s and 30s after a decade or more of confused bitterness.”

    Billy Beane said in moneyball that he could teach a baseball player to plate discipline, but he’d have to start from the cradle.

    The failure of PUA to make all learners more masculine doesn’t invalidate the lessons, it just means they need to be started young. A good mother can teach the lessons, even if she can’t be a testosterone role model.

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  172. on May 28, 2009 at 10:39 pm Deke

    Lawyer From Hell:

    Could you please provide a list of relevant books regarding your previous response to Lady Rain:

    on May 28, 2009 at 10:11 pm Lawyer from Hell

    “Lady Rain –

    ‘I do indeed understand the game which is why I made reference to other variants of this psychology that would (and do work) just as well, but without hating on an entire gender. Anyone who has studied Psychology, Criminal Profiling, Mentalism, etc. would understand exactly what I am saying here.’

    You are partially correct here. If you know what to look for, or get started down the path, you can find books filled with information. If you hope to learn what you need from Psychology courses in college, you won’t.”

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  173. on May 28, 2009 at 10:46 pm JAM

    > The failure of PUA to make all learners more masculine doesn’t invalidate the lessons, it just means they need to be started young.

    I’m not disagreeing with you here. In fact I am in emphatic agreement.

    I’m just saying that PUA, in the sense of “learning from books and videos” — which almost by definition happens later in life after a failure to learn the proper lessons in childhood — is not a desirable solution. At best it’s catchup for *some* men who are so motivated to change that they forcibly and consciously reprogram themselves at great cost.

    Best would be if the self-same lessons were learned at their fathers’ knees.

    As a commenter several months ago noted, a man who can reach deep within himself and change what needs to be changed, a man who can rip the cancer raw from his deformed flesh — that man was special to begin with, a nascent alpha. He is not everyman.

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  174. on May 28, 2009 at 11:13 pm CT

    Got to go with the first guy.

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  175. on May 28, 2009 at 11:25 pm MQ

    cliff aka MQ:

    hah, nice to know I’m still inside your head, Roissy, but I never post under any other name but MQ. Still lurk here occasionally. The blog remains entertaining — the beta overcompensation and resentment is still there but seems to have declined a bit, and you’ve occasionally even had some good game posts. Perhaps you’ve even managed to get some recently?

    You’ve been owned bitch. (That’s not bitch in a good way.)

    On the contrary, Doug, I think she owned you. As she pointed out, the fact that when she criticized you immediately gave this silly defensive response of “I get laid! I have a girlfriend! Women do too have sex with me!” is a big sign of your underlying insecurity. Weak inner game, as they say. Since most of the other male posters here share this insecurity, you won’t get called out on it by one of them, but women pick up on that easily.

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  176. on May 28, 2009 at 11:26 pm MQ

    Oh, and the first guy is the bigger fool. The second guy is a victim.

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  177. on May 28, 2009 at 11:32 pm roissy

    androgyne:
    hah, nice to know I’m still inside your head, Roissy, but I never post under any other name but MQ.

    all you simpering betas sound the same.

    the beta overcompensation and resentment is still there but seems to have declined a bit,

    when you’re a target the world looks like an overcompensating beta.

    and you’ve occasionally even had some good game posts.

    not that it would do you any good.

    Perhaps you’ve even managed to get some recently?

    does the thought stiffen your microphallus?

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  178. on May 28, 2009 at 11:46 pm Joe

    GNP is for Apes is so desperate for someone, anyone, to bite at his bait. LOL That is pretty funny (and sad I guess). 😀

    #2 at least was blindsided and what happened to him could have happened to a lot of people. #1 walked into his situation with both eyes open and is so shameless he writes about it like its not his fault. #1 wins.

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  179. on May 28, 2009 at 11:58 pm collegeboy

    JAM:

    What city do you reside in?

    I’ve only been once to a lair and that was just to see mystery. He and some other guy were outside the club just passing greetings with the guys. He was freakishly tall and very charismatic. I didn’t get to witness him in action because the club was 21+

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  180. on May 29, 2009 at 12:05 am Steve Johnson

    See from about 2 minutes in to 3 minutes in.

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  181. on May 29, 2009 at 12:07 am Steve Johnson

    MQ:

    Women do too have sex with me!” is a big sign of your underlying insecurity. Weak inner game, as they say. Since most of the other male posters here share this insecurity, you won’t get called out on it by one of them, but women pick up on that easily.

    But you don’t have that weakness do you? In fact, you’ve got deep knowledge about women.

    Boy MQ sounds like you’re trying to imply something about yourself there. You must not be getting any.

    Wow, this game is fun.

    In reality, boasting is alpha. Not boasting is super alpha but only in situations when you can let actions speak for you (like not bragging about who you’re fucking when you can arrange for her to walk in).

    Example of some alpha boasting:

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  182. on May 29, 2009 at 12:09 am xsplat

    Jam

    As a commenter several months ago noted, a man who can reach deep within himself and change what needs to be changed, a man who can rip the cancer raw from his deformed flesh — that man was special to begin with, a nascent alpha. He is not everyman.

    Heavy doses of meditation and moderate doses of LSD done in the formative late teen early twenties years makes a personality much more flexible. Therefore such changes are much easier – and can even become routine – several throughout a life, or even a major change every few years.

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  183. on May 29, 2009 at 12:16 am xsplat

    Micheal wah

    The failure of PUA to make all learners more masculine doesn’t invalidate the lessons, it just means they need to be started young. A good mother can teach the lessons, even if she can’t be a testosterone role model.

    Have you ever met a woman? They are incapable of acurately articulating their own basic emotions, have no empathy or concern or ability to have either towards the male condition, and see everything through complex layers of gossip and emotional power plays. They are not capable of teaching a man how to be a man.

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  184. on May 29, 2009 at 12:16 am collegeboy

    Alec Baldwins performance in that scene in general is alpha.

    The walk at 0:49 – 0:53 alpha.

    I’ve been in this buisness 15 years.
    Whats your name?
    FUCK YOU THATS MY NAME!

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  185. on May 29, 2009 at 12:25 am Lawyer from Hell

    Deke:

    Start with NLP books. You can find them in amazon. That’s where Ross Jeffries started. If you want specifics I can give them to you. Don’t leave any on your nightstand. A woman I was with went through my reading material and found that and freaked because I was into “Mind manipulation.”

    Lesson Learned.

    Read Desmond Morris: The naked ape and the others. He will not completely accept the truth of what he writes, but it gives a better understanding of the human animal from a naturalist’s perspective.

    Influence is a pretty good book. In fact a lot of books on selling have better information on how to get people to do things than psychology books that like to prat on about “Similarity, Familarity and Proximity” as if those are some great truth to behold.

    I cannot stress this enough: Avoid any relationship books written by women.

    If you want more Deke, let me know, but once you start down that path, you will find plenty more that steer you in the right direction and give you ideas to try.

    As for the “raising an alpha” versus a book learned one that gets the guts to go out and change his life, I think raising one is dubious.

    A woman is not going to do that, it goes against her genetic programming. It goes against her desire to control. An “alpha” male has a natural desire to eliminate competition even in sons.

    Everyone here can remember some domineering fathers that turned their sons into hopeless Omegas.

    What you get is probably a greater Beta at best. (this is what seems to be described as the strong father type anyway, that does what’s right, doesn’t take grief, but isn’t a Cad)

    The single most important thing that makes a natural is losing their virginity at a young age. They lose the “hunger” early on. Women are not seen as anything special that have something elusive that they want. They have an edge, and like many things, it is a self fulfilling situation.

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  186. on May 29, 2009 at 12:33 am Lawyer from Hell

    Jam:

    “As a commenter several months ago noted, a man who can reach deep within himself and change what needs to be changed, a man who can rip the cancer raw from his deformed flesh — that man was special to begin with, a nascent alpha. He is not everyman.”

    That is a lie and not a pretty one to keep the Betas in line to accept their fate.

    Any man that wants to transform himself has the power to do it, he just has to want to bad enough.

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  187. on May 29, 2009 at 12:46 am GNPs are for Apes

    I am not sure why people think the Argentine woman’s tits are nice.

    Clearly, they would be a foot lower, and with an amplitude of about 6 inches per oscillation, without the marvel of modern structural engineering that she is lucky enough to be able to purchase.

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  188. on May 29, 2009 at 12:51 am xsplat

    GNP, you offensive turd, you spit on social graces in an attempt at a modest ego boost.

    If you want to believe I have some deficiency in seeing beauty, and that I date uglies – fine. Believe it and feel better about yourself.

    But have you no manners, boy? Someone ought to visit you regularly to give a good dose of bitch slap. It is never cool to diss a man’s woman.

    That kind of disrespect just… isn’t… done.

    Retards can’t ever seem to get a grasp on social graces – so I won’t again try to school you. Someone should have, a long time ago, and kept at it.

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  189. on May 29, 2009 at 12:56 am GNPs are for Apes

    xsplat,

    You are a bargain hunter, that is all. You like to get ugly women on the cheap. Nothing fundamentally is wrong with that.

    The problem is, you are so engrossed in this that you term 5s as 10s. Hence, the claims that ‘multiple 10s have been in love with you’. That technically could be true, if you cut off the upper half of the scale, and term 5s as 10s.

    That is what you do.

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  190. on May 29, 2009 at 12:57 am Arpagus

    Rain Lady is a very energetic advocate of the status quo. Basically she is saying that a man should put up with whatever society imposes because society is right. That is very easy for her to say when society equals feminism and is always on her side.

    Are you trying to imply that you think that people who chose to be victims of society are just as much “victims” as people who are the victims of a real crime?

    Tell that to men imprisoned because of feminist rape reform and everything else feminism has done against men. What is real crime is defined by the ruling class, and right now that is feminism. Some of us don’t accept it. To men this is more than a yogurt commercial we can shrug off if we don’t like it and some day we are going to retaliate appropriately I hope.

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  191. on May 29, 2009 at 1:06 am Deke

    Lawyer From Hell:

    Thank you for the reply.

    I’m moderately familiar with NLP.

    Are you recommending the original NLP books by Bandler and Grinder?

    Any other specific NLP titles you’d recommend?

    Have you had formal training in NLP? If so, any particular experts/organizations you’d endorse?

    Likewise I’ve heard of Desmond Morris and his writings but haven’t read them.

    Same with “Influence” which I assume is the book by Robert Cialdini.

    Please list any further books you’ve found useful in this area. I’d much appreciate hearing more.

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  192. on May 29, 2009 at 1:09 am JAM

    Lawyer from Hell:

    >>“As a commenter several months ago noted, a man who can reach deep within himself and change what needs to be changed, a man who can rip the cancer raw from his deformed flesh — that man was special to begin with, a nascent alpha. He is not everyman.”
    >
    >That is a lie and not a pretty one to keep the Betas in line to accept their fate.
    >

    Dude, I am one of those very betas who overcame bad programming. I was a major part of my local lair(s). I am the last person who would want to ‘keep betas in line’. I wish every man success.

    > Any man that wants to transform himself has the power to do it, he just has to want to bad enough.

    That’s right. But most men don’t because they don’t want it badly enough, even though they would obviously benefit. I’ve seen it in action countless times. For this reason alone I’ve stopped giving advice even to people who really need it unless they specifically ask me for help.

    Extreme, soul-changing motivation comes from within… and it is a rare individual who has it. Sure, put someone in a war zone and they’ll (probably) try to fight their way through it to survive. But we’re talking about deliberately inflicting discomfort and often extreme pain ON OURSELVES. Most people don’t do that willingly from a position of even empty o m e g a under-performance. Two much gut-wrenching agony is often required.

    LikeLike


  193. on May 29, 2009 at 1:11 am JAM

    Too* much gut-wrenching agony is often required.

    LikeLike


  194. on May 29, 2009 at 3:28 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Definitely definitely the Beta of the Month is Choice A — the New York Beta Times guy,

    Why? Because he engineered his own undoing with Beta behavior. The other guy only had so much control over the fact that his woman slept with someone else.

    That New York Times story really got my blood boiling. This guys is supposedly a financial writer? He should be fired for stupidity. That’s like having a fat person write you exercise column.

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  195. on May 29, 2009 at 7:54 am gig

    They are not capable of teaching a man how to be a man.

    mostly true. Are there people in this forum who seriously believe that it is reasonable for a woman to tell her son “mistreat women, date two at the same time, neg her….”?? The amount of self delusion is gigantic indeed.

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  196. on May 29, 2009 at 8:16 am gig

    Silvio Berlusconi is still king

    his wife is divorcing him because the italian press, as lefty as any press in europe, strated a massive campaign of associating Berlusconi with every single girl who crossed his path.

    every single rumour about his affairs is taken as proved by the press.

    a cheated woman will accept it if her husband is alpha enough. What she coulnd’t stand is the constant propaganda all over the country.

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  197. on May 29, 2009 at 8:32 am Tarl

    Are there people in this forum who seriously believe that it is reasonable for a woman to tell her son “mistreat women, date two at the same time, neg her….”?? The amount of self delusion is gigantic indeed.

    The fictional example is Caesar’s mother in Colleen McCullough’s The First Man in Rome series. One of Caesar’s enemies starts the rumor that Caesar is a homo, so she tells him to go forth and cuckold as many of his political enemies as possible, and she tells him just how to do it.

    In real life… much harder to imagine a woman doing this.

    LikeLike


  198. on May 29, 2009 at 8:50 am PA

    What’s grosser than gross?

    One of the fathers in Beta #2’s case had to have stuck his thing into that woman’s freshly-inseminated hole.

    LikeLike


  199. on May 29, 2009 at 8:52 am Default User

    gig

    Are there people in this forum who seriously believe that it is reasonable for a woman to tell her son “mistreat women, date two at the same time, neg her….”?? The amount of self delusion is gigantic indeed.

    She can tell him that it is OK to disagree with other women, that it is OK to say “no.” She can explain that they are not delicate little flowers and are capable of enjoying things like playful banter. She can explain that women like a man who will lead. She can explain they should not be treated like his mother, as the relationship is very different.

    <Pop psych>
    Such messages coming from his mother could be very powerful, breaking the link between his relationship with his mother and his relationship with other women.
    </Pop psych>

    LikeLike


  200. on May 29, 2009 at 9:34 am Kamal S.

    Maurice@

    “..there’s something matriarchal about underclass culture, including underclass black culture. (note that i am placing socioeconomic status before race.) the men are generally shiftless, drink/drug too much, etc. and the women do all the work and bear all the burdens. reminds me a bit of that aspect of life in russia. also a lot of boys in that environment are raised by single moms, so no dad role-model in the house and too much deference to female opinion. that’s a recipe for beta behavior around women, however gangsta they may be on the street…”

    Bingo. When I moved to the Midwest, I started seeing this stuff all the time when younger hanging out with guys I’d meet at work who grew up in trailer parks. My initial attitude was “wow, white folks can actually have fucked up families and baby mommy/baby daddy drama too?!?”

    Seriously, I was that sheltered. Never realized how widespread some social pathologies are.

    When I was in London, similar dynamics in most underclass communities except “Pakis”. English “chav” white underclass types had similar rootless family dynamics, serial single motherhood, shiftless men folk, etc. Guajarati/Pakistani/Punjabi underclass gangster types, however, often had very strongly patriarchal family structures. Sometimes overbearingly so.

    Pakistani gangsters were interesting.. to hang out with, and tended to have the most bizarre stories imaginable. Like the one time this buddy of mine, Arfan, was messing around with a Sikh girl and her family’s men folk found out, and chased Asif through a good deal of the east end, at night, on foot, with swords. Literally, these ceremonial swords they call Kirpans. Ducking through restaurants, buildings, alleys. Poor boy almost got himself killed. Did it teach him not to stick his cock into strange femes from religious/cultural backgrounds with an adversarial orientation vis. his own? I don’t think so.

    Also in the news, Star Trek. Capt. Kirk. Perfect caricature of the cultural stereotype of the cocky alpha bastard. Frankly, I liked this portrayal of a Green-skin Chick shagging, thrill seeking, Kirk better than the old Shatner one. Shatner is a classic… but this new kid breathed some light into the role.

    McCoy as the bitter washed up provider-beta, almost alpha (after getting taken to the cleaners by his ex) was a cool move also. The movie had no depth, but was a fun waste of an hour or two…

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  201. on May 29, 2009 at 9:41 am gig

    the last sultan of Granada, Boabdil, surrenderedthe Alhambra Palace without fighting, in1492.

    the spaniards allowed him to leave with his family. After leaving, a few miles away, he turned away, looked at the palace for the last time, and cried. his mother besides him said “well done in crying like a woman, for what you coulnd’t fight for as a man”

    A mother who knew game. A mother of an herb.

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  202. on May 29, 2009 at 9:46 am RussTDoGG

    This blog is a find- I didn’t know people like this still existed. Roissy that stuff is great entertainment. Youre awesome

    I had to send this onto the his email @ NYT. The link is above if you care to contact him, Thanks

    LikeLike


  203. on May 29, 2009 at 9:48 am Lawyer from Hell

    JAM,

    I am glad you learned to never give advice that wasn’t asked for. It doesn’t work, unless you do it indirectly.

    The choice to change is certainly internal, but the impetus is often external. Some event strips away the illusions.

    I agree with you that few people do change, but sadly I think it is mainly because that don’t believe they can.

    Deke,

    I’ve read Frogs into Princes and a couple others. I highly recommend Desmond. It makes you look at human behaviors in a different light. It also makes clear the male female dynamic. His body language book is good (People Watching).

    I would also suggest “No More Mr. Nice Guy” by Glover. The guy is a psychologist and recovering Beta and he spells out both how a person ends up being a nice guy and what he needs to do to stop.

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  204. on May 29, 2009 at 9:51 am Joe

    Frankly, I liked this portrayal of a Green-skin Chick shagging, thrill seeking, Kirk better than the old Shatner one. Shatner is a classic… but this new kid breathed some light into the role.

    You need to watch more old Star Trek. Shatner originated the green chick shagging, thrill seeking Kirk. He was hooking up regularly. Here is the original green chick:

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  205. on May 29, 2009 at 10:20 am maurice

    @JAM – where was your lair? what city?

    LikeLike


  206. on May 29, 2009 at 11:09 am Deke

    Lawyer From Hell:

    Thanks much for the additional suggestions. I’ll have to look into them.

    LikeLike


  207. on May 29, 2009 at 11:18 am anony

    @aoefe,

    At the risk of some calling me an ass-kisser or a doug/default pleaser I just want to state for the record I agree with what Doug said. However prior to the wedding the expectations should clearly laid out. The man should let his wife know that although he may listen to her reasons for not wanting sex, he’ll decide if in fact they will have it. And if she says no while in the marriage, well she’s blown her acceptance of the situation she married into and he takes ‘it’. Regarding slapping – again clear expectations around boundaries. I don’t think violence should be used for most purposes but it does place the authority in the right spot. Personally there should be very little reason to slap. Some reasons I suppose could include: they hit you, used language you find unacceptable (that will vary from man to man), deception, cheating (and then it’s a slap and divorce), and others you agree on in advance. I think she needs to be included in the beginning negoatiations, but final decision on the rules are yours.

    I know there are people who think I’m here to please the men who comment, but I’m not. I believe what I write and have felt this way for a very long time. I takes some courage believe it or not to write about it. It’s been great for me to read what men want for a change instead of always hearing it from the other side.

    Your sophomoric comments reveal lack of experience and wisdom. . You aren’t “courageous” , you’re just silly. Get back to us after you’ve been married 10 years.

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  208. on May 29, 2009 at 11:43 am gig

    Your sophomoric comments reveal lack of experience

    true

    The man should let his wife know that although he may listen to her reasons for not wanting sex, he’ll decide if in fact they will have it

    this is not optional, this cannot be the outcome of some sort of agreement, like the borders of Iraq. She is attracted to him or not. Female attraction changes very fastly, anyone who had experience with them know. Male attraction declines with age and weight, it is simple, mostly.

    If she is not, and he still decides to have sex, we have the case of a divorce plus marital rape. The simple fact that the guy decides to lay out his expectations in order to have an agreement is deeply beta.

    tell me aoefe, if the guy wants sex, but his unnattracted wife does not, which resources does he have to enforce his “rights”? Which resources beyond the attraction that she feels for him, which would have prevented the problem from arising, in the first placE?

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  209. on May 29, 2009 at 12:05 pm doug1

    JAM

    But most men don’t because they don’t want it badly enough, even though they would obviously benefit. I’ve seen it in action countless times. For this reason alone I’ve stopped giving advice even to people who really need it unless they specifically ask me for help.

    Yes.

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  210. on May 29, 2009 at 12:09 pm doug1

    gig

    Silvio Berlusconi is still king

    his wife is divorcing him because the italian press, as lefty as any press in europe, strated a massive campaign of associating Berlusconi with every single girl who crossed his path.

    every single rumour about his affairs is taken as proved by the press.

    a cheated woman will accept it if her husband is alpha enough. What she coulnd’t stand is the constant propaganda all over the country.

    Exactly right. Totally on target.

    The social environment does matter. Men can do a lot on their own, but the lake they’re swimming in makes a big difference too.

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  211. on May 29, 2009 at 12:38 pm Astra

    So, does everyone here think the Beta #1 was screwed in divorce court? Reading between the lines in the NYT excerpt suggests that he left his wife and 3 kids FOR the other woman. So, if he is forced to pay a stay-at-home mom and his 3 children 58,000/year to maintain some fraction of their previous lifestyle (at half the salary) so that he can start his exciting new life, do you really think he was screwed? Bottom line, the man might have been better off staying with his wife rather than going with the “brainy, regal, sexy, fiery and eclectic” Patty.

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  212. on May 29, 2009 at 12:39 pm Jake Bronson

    The NYT Guy. BTW, was that Argentine slag a guy when they were in high school? I think I detect an Adams Apple there…

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  213. on May 29, 2009 at 12:59 pm doug1

    gig–

    Are there people in this forum who seriously believe that it is reasonable for a woman to tell her son “mistreat women, date two at the same time, neg her….”??

    You will note gig that that is not part of the advice I gave AKitty as to what she could do, as a mother, to avoid raising an unmanly beta.

    Some others may have added in that direction.

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  214. on May 29, 2009 at 1:25 pm ironrailsironweights

    Hey Roissy,

    Here’s a funny story about a warpiggy teacher who’s accused of playing Hide the Salami with a 14-year-old boy.

    Peter

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  215. on May 29, 2009 at 1:29 pm Michael Wears a Hat

    “The social environment does matter. Men can do a lot on their own, but the lake they’re swimming in makes a big difference too.”

    This is really true, and something I think a lot more of the PUA mentors should be clear about. If you’re trying to completely change who you are, being in an area that will make it easier to change is very important.

    I’ve personally only had incremental changes since I’ve been aware of game, but I’ve come to realize that I’m in possibly the single worst large city in the US for somebody of my qualities and background. I’m getting out soon.

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  216. on May 29, 2009 at 1:37 pm Lawyer from Hell

    Deke

    “Lawyer From Hell:

    Thanks much for the additional suggestions. I’ll have to look into them.”

    Thanks are like apologies. Use them very sparingly.

    Enjoy the reading. If you want more after those, let me know.

    LikeLike


  217. on May 29, 2009 at 2:23 pm son of beta with alpha delusions

    hey, #1 reminds me of my dad and his second wife.

    They’re dead broke, swimming in debt, still piling up the worthless spending, and it is NEVER their fault. IT’s the bankers, the oil industry, the military, my mom, the hypocrisy of the local church, George Bush.

    And they (of course) voted for Obama “because he really wants to help people like us.” hahahahaha.

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  218. on May 29, 2009 at 2:29 pm doug1

    gig

    this is not optional, this cannot be the outcome of some sort of agreement, like the borders of Iraq. She is attracted to him or not. Female attraction changes very fastly, anyone who had experience with them know. Male attraction declines with age and weight, it is simple, mostly.

    If she is not, and he still decides to have sex, we have the case of a divorce plus marital rape. The simple fact that the guy decides to lay out his expectations in order to have an agreement is deeply beta.

    It’s you and feminist anony who you quote with approval that are sounding sophomoric, not aoefe.

    First of all I didn’t say I wanted marital rape to go back to being a foreign concept and slapping a wife to be completely decriminalized to encourage a whole lot more of either. I made that clear for those with ears to hear. I especially did in a subsequent comment, above.

    The reason rather is to shift the social expectations and take those social steps to stop emasculating men. After all I’m merely advocating for the law to go back to what it was only a few decades ago.

    Many wives have sex with their husbands even when they’re not totally or much at all feeling it, because they care about them and the relationship. No that’s not usually great sex. Although you know lots of times when women start out not wanting to very much, they can end up enjoying hugely. Yeah it would be better if all betas were as good at seducing their long term partner into wanting it when she’s not so much in the mood as I am and perhaps you are gig, but I’m trying to help the betas out. Social expectations matter.

    I’m reminded of an Australian female relationship counselor who’s written a book I think but anyway done radio talk shows there where she tells wives that they should just do it with their husbands sometimes even when they don’t at the moment feel it, because he does have needs and it does help relationships. Someone here posted a link to it on a thread a month ago or so. She counsels that they just at least go for some “cuddling and kissing” and see where that will lead, and to not be resistant if they do find themselves warming up. Some women callers accused her to being dangerously close to advocating marital rape.

    It’s that whole mindset of those feminist indignants that I’m trying to change with a change back in the law of marital rape.

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  219. on May 29, 2009 at 2:41 pm Firepower

    that green chick is no diff than any chick: a knife-weilding, yappy psycho bitch.

    still, she’s hotter than a yellow chick and way hotter than a black chick. she’s even hotter than a Blasian.

    just give her the
    chlorophyll douche
    she’s good to go

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  220. on May 29, 2009 at 2:51 pm aoefe

    @ gig

    “tell me aoefe, if the guy wants sex, but his unnattracted wife does not, which resources does he have to enforce his “rights”? Which resources beyond the attraction that she feels for him, which would have prevented the problem from arising, in the first placE?”

    I was agreeing with Doug in regards to having the right to do it. Currently there are no legal provisions for doing so and I would NOT recommend it.

    Perhaps I was simply stating my own desires for relationship. I’m rather turned on by a man who is in charge so perhaps its only my particular way of getting aroused that drives my statement. I should be careful in generalizing for the sake of other types of women.

    As for attraction being the only reason she says no, not the case. Women can get their physical needs met simply by touching children (no you sickos!, not THAT way). So her barrier is not you, its just her need has been met. If attraction is gone in general – then I’d say divorce was the option.

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  221. on May 29, 2009 at 2:54 pm aoefe

    @anony

    I think you’re making assumptions about my life. You’ve determined my age, experience, thoughts already. This doesn’t mean I’ll reveal anything about myself more than I’ve revealed however. Interesting.

    By the way I haven’t given one thought to who you are, or made assumptions. Interesting again.

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  222. on May 29, 2009 at 2:58 pm doug1

    aoefe

    I’m rather turned on by a man who is in charge so perhaps its only my particular way of getting aroused that drives my statement.

    I could tell. And yuum.

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  223. on May 29, 2009 at 3:01 pm anony

    @aoefe,
    I made no assuptions; I just addressed your naive , silly thoughts.

    LikeLike


  224. on May 29, 2009 at 3:02 pm aoefe

    @doug

    I could tell you could tell. 🙂

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  225. on May 29, 2009 at 3:04 pm aoefe

    @anony

    I think you should read your first statement back and recognize you made some assumptions.

    If you said “I’m feeling hurt”. Would it be right of me to say “that’s silly and you’re being naive?” I’d be interested in your thoughts on that question. Honestly.

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  226. on May 29, 2009 at 3:26 pm Firepower

    @aoefe

    i either need a hug…
    or an erection

    LikeLike


  227. on May 29, 2009 at 3:27 pm anony

    @aoefe,
    -your analogy fails,……..as they all do.
    -your comments reveal you are talking out of your experience league.

    LikeLike


  228. on May 29, 2009 at 3:34 pm aoefe

    @anony

    “your analogy fails”

    It wasn’t an analogy. It was a question.

    “As they all do….”

    I’m flattered you’ve read everything I’ve said. I must be getting under your skin. Why?

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  229. on May 29, 2009 at 3:38 pm aoefe

    @anony

    “…talking out of your experience league.”

    Sorry missed this. You’d like to believe I have no experience, but you’d be very wrong. I realize if you believe I have no experience you can dismiss me. Dismiss me, but you’re still wrong.

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  230. on May 29, 2009 at 3:41 pm Pupu

    Astra has put the nail on the head.

    LikeLike


  231. on May 29, 2009 at 3:50 pm Firepower

    i always blame feminism for my mistakes – or is it fetishism –

    i’m always getting the two mixed up

    LikeLike


  232. on May 29, 2009 at 3:56 pm aoefe

    @LR

    “Instead of living in a world of misguided blame, try using your BRAIN to make decisions.”

    I agree. In the mental health sector blaming others is seen as a thinking error/distorted thought. Recognizing of course that some people have done bad shit and hurt us, but staying in the blaming place is not percieved as positive for growth.

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  233. on May 29, 2009 at 3:57 pm ironrailsironweights

    If everyone adhered to what society implies we are supposed to do then all women would be a Size 1, with an eating disorder (bc we’re supposed to be thing), with huge fake boobs (bc society tells us guys like boobs), and to be intelligent, charming, not dominant, but not a pushover (ie: we’d all be in therapy).

    If women adhered to what I’d like they all would have GNP’s.

    Peter

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  234. on May 29, 2009 at 4:00 pm doug1

    Pupu–

    Astra has put the nail on the head.

    I completely disagree.

    First of all the odds very strongly are she divorced him, particularly since he had minor kids with him. If not she probably stopped having sex with him or became a hippo. Wives should have sex with husbands if they want to keep them. If they can’t keep them in these equal opportunities for women days they had better to be able to earn their own living at a level that’s congenial to them.

    But again she very very likely left him. Or else he caught her cheating and she wouldn’t stop.

    Second he’s paying her way over half his take home pay in child support and alimony.

    She should get a job and one hell of a lot less of his money.

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  235. on May 29, 2009 at 4:08 pm Puma

    The NYT Guy’s real problem is being a chump who keeps signing Marriage 2.0 Contracts. It has nothing to do with housing prices, mortgages, or the lending industry. His problem is being slaughter-sheep for the matriarchy.

    It will not end well for him.

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  236. on May 29, 2009 at 4:34 pm Celtic

    LR-

    I never said that you should go around feeling like a victim. To improve yourself, you have to take responsibility for your own self-improvement. Thanks to the PUA community, we know what to do to improve ourselves.

    But the guy in this story was doing what he had been taught his whole life was being a “good man”. If he’s like most men, he was never told that his betaness was the problem. If anything, his marriage counselor likely told him the problem was that he should be more attentive to her needs. He tried so hard to make his wife happy, and got taken advantage horribly for it by the cunt. For anyone with any sense of justice or plain old common decency, they could see that the situation is really fucked up. But it’s clear that “anyone with any sense of justice or plain old common decency” doesn’t include you. In so many ways, you are the perfect embodiment of every negative thing said about women by roissy.

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  237. on May 29, 2009 at 4:40 pm doug1

    Puma

    Yes. And to a badly chosen woman to boot, towards who he’s utterly without balls.

    But.

    If you want children in America, there’s essentially no way around the child support assessment risk if she wants to divorce you — or break up with you from your live together arrangement.

    Child support is way more than that when the man is high earning. It’s also alimony by a different name.

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  238. on May 29, 2009 at 4:48 pm Pupu

    Doug,

    Pupu finds it hard to imagine that a woman with three boys could have any extra energy carrying a lover on the side. It is likely though that while raising the boys, she has neglected herself and become sexually unattractive to her husband. The divorce might have been inevitable for various reason. The NYT guy did not sound bitter towards his ex nor his boys. Frankly, things would have been fine if he has remained single, living close to his boys while keeping a fling with his “brainy, regal, sexy, fiery and eclectic” Patty.

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  239. on May 29, 2009 at 5:04 pm doug1

    towards whom

    jeeesh

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  240. on May 29, 2009 at 5:37 pm doug1

    Pupu-

    Frankly, things would have been fine if he has remained single, living close to his boys while keeping a fling with his “brainy, regal, sexy, fiery and eclectic” Patty.

    By his own numbers, though he doesn’t highlight this conclusion, feminist lickspittle that he is, he’s forking over 60% of his income to his ex wife.

    So she’s “making” significantly more than he is entirely on his back. All her own earnings would be in addition. If she say got a job earning only 1/3 of his approx 110K/yr (after deducting from her earnings for additional child care costs for her prob teenage kids given his age), then she’d have 2.25 times as much take home pay and divorce theft as he does.

    Such is marriage 2.0 in America these days.

    Oh and plenty of women with kids cheat these days. Happens all the time. Women in younger age cohorts may be cheating more than men now, esp. when even moderate adjustments are made for the direction of lying to surveyors.

    I really doubt this herb would have left his wife. She left him. That’s what the stats strongly predict and reading about him makes it seem than much less likely he left her.

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  241. on May 29, 2009 at 5:51 pm Celtic

    Wow. That is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.

    Your comparison between the guy in the story being a beta and being a criminal might make sense if the criminal- say a robber- was taught from an early age that a truly good man who steals from people. If his teachers in school had taught them that the way you should get ahead is by stealing. If TV shows showed robbers as the heroes of the story, and showed the honest storekeeper getting hauled off to jail for running an honest business at the end. The comparison between criminal and beta would make sense if this man was never told at any point that stealing was against the law, and then suddenly found himself arrested and sent to jail for it. But even then was just thrown into jail without being told what is was he was going to jail for.

    Ya, it would be good if more guys could figure out they’ve been lied to their whole life. But that’s quite a conclusion to reach, isn’t it? It’s a good thing we have site like this one though to set things straight.

    It’s amazing that you can’t find any moral difference between the guy being stupid in his trying to be a good husband in an ineffective way, and the wife being evil by taking advantage of her husband like this. It doesn’t matter to you at all that his intentions were to be a good family man.

    Some would say that as a women, the abstract concept of justice doesn’t work with you because the guy being a beta by doing his best to be a loving husband and the girl being a bitch by taking advantage of him, because they both FEEL unpleasant to you. But I don’t think that’s right, to women like Bhetti it’s clear as day who’s in the wrong. You just don’t get it because you’re a grade-A cunt.

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  242. on May 29, 2009 at 6:41 pm Tupac Chopra - SecretSociety Agent Man

    For a while there I was thinking Lady Rain was a pretty smart tack giving the regulars here a run for their money.

    But with her recent comments revealing her total inability to discern the moral distinction Celtic is drawing, I can only surmise that she truly is just another dumb bitch.

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  243. on May 29, 2009 at 6:50 pm Firepower

    women are incapable of making moral decisions…

    or, even immoral ones…

    or…discerning between the two.

    That’s why Game works.

    LikeLike


  244. on May 29, 2009 at 7:44 pm The_Judge

    In this closely fought battle, I have to give an edge to contestant #1. The other beta male gets the benefit of the doubt by being a member of the black community where sexual promiscuity is the most rampant – or so my black friends tell me. He is still a chump for not throwing that fat bitch out in the dirt, but at least he does have one legitimate offspring that he can focus on… and properly emotionally destroy the other lest the wife takes the high road and gives it to the actual father or up for adoption.

    The first contestant must really have some submissive S&M tendencies to indulge himself in not one, but two thorough butt-rapings at the hands of dearly beloved wifeys. The guy makes about 110-120K per year pre-tax, which would typically be a hefty salary, but we are talking about NYC here with it’s astronomical costs of living. He got burned once through a divorce of which there are no details in the article. Even assuming that he cheated with his half Taiwanese-half Zimbabwean secretary in their childrens’ bed in plain daylight, there is no way that anyone should be obliged to hand out 65K of pre-tax pay to someone who doesn’t have to raise a pinky finger. Lesson #1 – don’t get married without an air-tight prenupt that covers for infidelity, pedophilia, necrophilia, podophilia and any other kind of -philia known to man-kind.

    Now, what does our men do in the aftermath? He finds himself an over the top old hag who rejected his advances years ago, but who has now lost all hope to be swept off her feet by a handsome and strapping super-star soccer player (she is Argentinian), so she’s willing to become a cash vacuum for a balding loser with no self esteem.

    I do feel somewhat sorry for this guy. Like some male posters have noted, and the female posters, predictably, vehemently objected to, this man is a product of his upbringing. He was taught to act like a “good guy”. He was raised in a time, and likely saw with his own eyes, many women who had actual moral values and wouldn’t lower themselves to the means of legally sanctioned extortion through divorce. However, with him being a somewhat high profile journalist, I would expect him to have a better grasp of the zeitgeist as it is and see the heavy Claymore suspended above his head upon entering the second marriage. Hence, it would be a perfectly apt punishment of stupidity to proclaim this man the beta of the month of May anno domini 2009.

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  245. on May 29, 2009 at 8:16 pm Comment_Whatever

    Lady Rain said:


    Everyone can blame society for something. Men are not special. Instead of living in a world of misguided blame, try using your BRAIN to make decisions. If you are a grown adult and are SO jaded by society that you cannot help but act like a total misogynist douche, then you should seek therapy because most people don’t live in MagicLand where we are like children and are not responsible for our own actions.

    I hold Lady Rain completely responsible for how she is raising her kid.

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  246. on May 29, 2009 at 8:54 pm Rum

    One short-cut to a solid understanding of what might be called the “moral” dimension to the saga of beta-NYC-man is to ask this question: If he and his 2nd wife each had somehow gotten a vastly better understanding of the others true nature and motivations would they have acted the same?
    For him, hell no. He was scammed; by her and by society. To realize that is to change course.
    For her? She was coldly realistic from the start and got exactly what she wanted. What should she want to change? She has an income and a victim-role to luxuriate in. She must be inwardly grinning.
    Whether or not her conscious mind was involved with any of this is an interesting question. I suspect she would be a more efficient predator if she was untroubled by self knowledge.

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  247. on May 29, 2009 at 9:24 pm Hofmann's Problem Child

    Why is Lady Rain — raising a child as a single mother because his father became physically abusive — even wasting her time here? She comes into this blog oh so tough but like many women — or feminists — will be more than happy to be some alpha’s “bitch” (and rationalize it in a thousand ways). And the amusing thing is that some beta is pining for her and can’t have her — a beta who should be more alpha and learn to game women who aren’t past their prime and with baggage.

    Roissy is merely informing men of the dangers on being a beta. Lady Rain — whose bastard child reminds us constantly of how hypocritical alpha-fucking feminist game-haters can be — wants the best of both worlds: to have plenty of betas to suck up to her once the alphas have stretched her pussy beyond repair, and to live in a feminist matriarchal society where such sucking up is the norm and never challenged.

    The fact that Roissy’s ideas are getting such strong opposition from washed-up feminist alpha fuckers tells us all we need to know: Roissy is the voice of a new generation.

    Love live King Roissy! Off with their used-up cunts!

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  248. on May 29, 2009 at 9:36 pm Lady Rains Lil Bastard

    momma, one daddy – before he left – said “son – i feel for you. she’s fucked in the head. sorry – i mean she has issues. she sucks the life out of anything valuable. the incarnation of the american skank. sorry – woman. don’t encourage her rational, ha, psychology, profiling, wikka, astrology tarrot voodoo bullshit. try and IGNORE the obtuse meth head tranny – sorry your mom.”

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  249. on May 29, 2009 at 9:52 pm Rum

    If I make the mistake of believing a supposed friend who tells me a used car of his OK, buy it, and discover it is a lemon, I cannot complain too loudly. I mean, buyer beware, and all that. Things are not what they seem. Grow up, etc.
    But the best test of the true fairness of a deal is whether or not the same parties would do another like it after learning how the first one turned out.
    Argentine Lady got what she wanted. She would not have gotten it if Beta-Man had understood her better. So, it is not hard to draw conclusions. Maybe this does not look like “logic” to you but whatever.
    This is not about morality, exactly, but about the future. And, fwiw, the quality of someones “logic” is best measured by the way lessons are learned and applied.

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  250. on May 29, 2009 at 10:02 pm Rum

    LR

    Since Argentine lady got what she wanted what is the point of calling her a victim of society or anything else? Where did that come from?
    That she poses as a victim is a different matter.

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  251. on May 29, 2009 at 10:35 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Default User: Is there any particularly bad thing about being an INTJ?

    Back to the main point: I hope I’d have more fortitude than that NYT writer; if I didn’t manage to smoke her true nature out beforehand or something, then at least be able to summon up the nerve to tell her where the door was if she was unhappy. On the other hand, he can’t afford that kind of resilience on his current finances, can he?

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  252. on May 29, 2009 at 11:02 pm aoefe

    @Default User

    I took the test very cool. I’m an ENTJ, only 2% of the population. I’m either really special or very strange, picking the former. 🙂

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  253. on May 29, 2009 at 11:24 pm Welmer

    Roissy

    Betas are quick to forgive. If you ever feel the impulse to forgive a cheating whore, you are probably acting out of fear that you can’t do any better. Forgiveness, like Jesus Christ’s other cheek, is the first refuge of the loser with no options.

    If you don’t forgive immediately, you will be put through more soul-killing bullshit than you’d ever know.

    Trust me — I’ve been through it.

    However, ultimately, taking the hard line will pay off. Not only will your children respect you for it in the long run, but eventually, after much pain, so will everyone else.

    Taking the beta route is just a guarantee that you’ll be a sucker for life. A couple years of pain, and even a few months in jail (hasn’t happened to me yet, but it might), are worth escaping that fate.

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  254. on May 30, 2009 at 12:06 am Tood

    Doug1 is right. A pre-nup cannot get you out of child support.

    Alimony – yes. Property-division, partly.

    But child support is guaranteed. Even if she earns the same as you (which is itself unlikely).

    Now, in the long run, you could show the kids how much you paid over the years, have them add up how little of it went to them, and show them why there is no inheritance for them. They may resent their mother then.

    But that is only AFTER you have paid for a long time.

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  255. on May 30, 2009 at 12:10 am Tood

    Women have a far higher capacity for cruelty than men do, particulary cruelty directed towards someone who loves them.

    Women also have far less self-restraint in terms of torturing or taking advantage of people.

    That is why, despite a society that overwhelmingly treats women better than men, women are more unhappy than ever (which even left-wing studies admit).

    Patriarchal societies are better for both sexes, as when men are in charge, most men are still likely to treat women well. When women are in charge, their default state is mooching, torturing, and mistreating men.

    The bubble of feminism will pop soon enough, with dramatic, manifold effects.

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  256. on May 30, 2009 at 12:14 am Tood

    Why god does not exist :

    1) Women have more reproductive bottlenecking than men. i.e., a group of 1 man and 10 women can have 100 kids, but a group of 10 men and 1 woman can have 10 kids in the same amount of time.

    So why does the woman’s reproductive capacity end at a much earlier age? It would be more practical for the woman to have more years of reproductive capacity, as they can only have 1 kid every 2 years, while a man can have virtually thousands of kids a year in theory.

    2) Biological reproduction would be more practical if two-thirds of babies born were female, and one-third were male. That is more reproductively efficient, than the current 50/50 split. The Y chromosome should be much rarer than it is. That would make more sense.

    So God does not exist. These two huge mathematical bottlenecks exist in the current evolutionary setup.

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  257. on May 30, 2009 at 12:26 am Tood

    Lady Rain,

    I agree that deadbeats of either gender are rewarded over the responsible parties. That is rule #1.

    But rule #2 is that the woman is rewarded over the man. So while rule #2 does not supercede rule #1, rule #2 is still powerful.

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  258. on May 30, 2009 at 12:31 am Tood

    women are incapable of making moral decisions…

    or, even immoral ones…

    or…discerning between the two.

    That’s why Game works.

    Brilliant. Where are those airheads, Chic Noir and Feministx, to read this?

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  259. on May 30, 2009 at 12:34 am Tupac Chopra - SecretSociety Agent Man

    Lady Rain –

    Let me break it down into small, bite-sized pieces even your hyperactive uterus can understand.

    By nature, all human beings are inherently selfish, amoral (and often short-sighted) creatures. This assertion applies equally to men and women alike.

    In the case discussed here, the man was putting aside his immediate gratification in order to serve his wife, in the hope of maintaining the marriage and the family unit. He was operating on the “conventional wisdom”( i.e., cultural propaganda indoctrinated in him since childhood) that taking his wife’s wants and needs into account was the noble thing to do.

    The wife on the other hand was merely *indulging* her wants and desires. There was no adherence to any similar notion of self-restraint as practiced by her husband. In principle, the moral calculus of her behavior was no different than a two-year old’s. There was no parity between the husband and wife, morally speaking.

    From our vantage point, the man was a fool. You are quite right about that.

    The rest of us in the Roissysphere agree with you.

    So why do you accuse us of unfairly considering the man a victim in a certain sense, but not the wife?

    Because he was sold a false bill of goods. He *tried* to do the “right” thing and was punished for it.

    The wife merely indulged her greed. ANYONE can do that.

    The ability to delay gratification is one of the things that seperates humans from animals.

    It also seperates adults from children.

    And increasingly in the U.S., men from women, apparently.

    The fact that you object to a blog which attempts to make informed consumers out of men who might have otherwise suffered the same fate speaks volumes.

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  260. on May 30, 2009 at 12:34 am Tood

    It is harder to be more Alpha than Silvio Berlusconi.

    He is both the richest man in Italy, AND the leader of the country.

    Bill Gates + George W. Bush rolled into one (Berlusconi is right-wing).

    So he is indisputably the Top man in Italy, a country where women are easy and often hot to begin with. What a life….

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  261. on May 30, 2009 at 12:42 am Tood

    you should also be angry with the men who are “professional deadbeats” because it’s men like THEM who ALSO contribute to these tougher regulations on men.

    Agreed. But deadbeat men are far fewer in proportion to mooching women.

    And this is why mooching, parasitic, child-support-queen women will cause tremendous hardship and suffering to kind-hearted women who want nothing more than a traditional family.

    The ‘risk-premium’ of marriage is rising for men, to the extent that, say, 20% of men refuse to marry.

    When 100 women are competing for just 80 men, AND those women age a lot faster than men do, life becomes harder for ALL women.

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  262. on May 30, 2009 at 2:39 am Days of Broken Arrows

    Virginia Gentleman,

    To continue our convo from the last threat I have TOTALLY changed my tune.

    I found pics of that high school crush of mine I was telling you about in a Facebook photo album. She’s now dating someone. He’s fat, bald, bearded and dorky looking. AND OLD. This guy looks older than my dad. I’m thin, with lots of hairs and look good enough to date women over ten years younger.

    I didn’t push to talk to her because of my self-consciousness (i.e. — I needed to feel more suave, I needed to lose five pounds, etc.). Now I realize I screwed up. Not only did I have a chance, but I would have come off like friggin’ Brad Pitt by comparison. And I’m not sure what THIS OLD MAN she’s with does for a living, but I’ve done very well.

    So I’m doing a 180. I say go for it. For all I know, my crush will marry this dude and that’s it for me.

    One more thing: if you want to talk, I’m giving Roissy permission to give you my e-mail address (Roissy, hook us up). Also, Alias Clio has my info — you can go to her site and pass along yours.

    Life is short. You have to strike while the iron is hot. It would have been way better to have messed up with her than to have let opportunity pass me by. I am not a happy camper right now. We should talk.

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  263. on May 30, 2009 at 8:01 am Default User

    Virginia Gentleman asked:

    Is there any particularly bad thing about being an INTJ?

    Of course not.

    However, they can be very argumentative. Because they are logical and like “closure” they find it hard to let arguments drop. The problem is that on the Internet there is really no such thing as “last word.” At some point you have to be able to let it go.

    So it was not a criticism, more of an observation. Indeed this blog probably has NT types (such as INTJs) out of any proportion to their number in the population.

    Some of my best friends are INTJs 🙂

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  264. on May 30, 2009 at 8:25 am Default User

    Alpha aoefe

    I took the test very cool. I’m an ENTJ, only 2% of the population. I’m either really special or very strange, picking the former.

    Probably a bit of both. It certainly means you are an alpha chick. [note to self, treat this one with care]

    You are probably a leader type. You have plenty of long-range vision, see the big picture, are logical, and directive (that’s polite for bossy). That can be difficult for a woman because of “cultural expectations” and all that.

    No doubt you do sometimes feel a stranger in a world that does not quite understand.

    You are in good company here, as there are probably lots of NT types (and a few NFs).

    Romantically (because this is a pick-up blog):
    You probably find it hard to find a man that measures up either in confidence or intellect.

    You really need an alpha guy. Of course the alpha guy will want to be in charge but so will you. Oh Oh!

    Good luck (not that you would rely on luck)

    PS
    I think you said you were involved in some kind of social service area. I believe you said you managed a group. That is interesting because many in the caring professions are NF (probably INFP or INFJ) types. That is they have similar thinking but are just more empathetic. I would imagine you do well at such a job. You can converse in their “language” (“N”) but are more directive and logical, thus making sure practical concerns are covered.

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  265. on May 30, 2009 at 8:48 am Bhetti

    Tood:
    Patriarchal societies are better for both sexes, as when men are in charge, most men are still likely to treat women well. When women are in charge, their default state is mooching, torturing, and mistreating men.

    That’s the default state of human beings when in power. I would believe the difference is men are better at it.

    Women also have far less self-restraint in terms of torturing or taking advantage of people.

    Give evidence of this horrible moral ‘cruelty’. You are living in a supposed feminised state currently where women are in charge, where the hell is this cruelty and mistreatment? On the other hand, the main point of attacking patriarchal states is their violent mistreatment of women.

    It is a certain kind of patriarchal state that is good for women and definitely not all.

    You can’t come out with unconventional crap like that and not back it up with at least what you think are examples.

    Women have a far higher capacity for cruelty than men do, particulary cruelty directed towards someone who loves them.

    At the moment, the reference to ‘those they love’ looks like hyperbole on the ‘she shit-tests you to see if you’re not weak’/’you treat her like fluffy cotton candy because she’s female’ dynamic which isn’t quite the same thing. It is true that having a weak person love someone without reciprocation enables the person they love to torture them exquisitely. But what kind of torture do you mean and are women really more likely to indulge in it?


    That is why, despite a society that overwhelmingly treats women better than men, women are more unhappy than ever (which even left-wing studies admit).

    Well, at least these women feel morally bad about being such amoral torturers. Wait, what? That must’ve not been what you were saying.

    Altogether, please clarify.

    I think the females automatically ignore Firepower, as he himself has taught them to do. Did you agree with that point about ‘That’s why Game works’, though? The established explanation for Game was based on evolutionary psychology as far as I saw, and not abstract talk of morality. I don’t see how it directly applies to whether Game works.

    Why god does not exist :

    1) Women have more reproductive bottlenecking than men. i.e., a group of 1 man and 10 women can have 100 kids, but a group of 10 men and 1 woman can have 10 kids in the same amount of time.

    So why does the woman’s reproductive capacity end at a much earlier age? It would be more practical for the woman to have more years of reproductive capacity, as they can only have 1 kid every 2 years, while a man can have virtually thousands of kids a year in theory.

    2) Biological reproduction would be more practical if two-thirds of babies born were female, and one-third were male. That is more reproductively efficient, than the current 50/50 split. The Y chromosome should be much rarer than it is. That would make more sense.

    So God does not exist. These two huge mathematical bottlenecks exist in the current evolutionary setup.

    You seem to be saying God’s purpose with designing human beings is to produce maximum reproductive efficiency?

    Anyway: If I recall it correctly, the more vulnerable XY combo of chromosomes do theoretically allow the fetus to get hit with a few more miscarriage-inducing diseases which may explain naturally more females being around, but not to the significant extent that you’re after.

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  266. on May 30, 2009 at 8:55 am aoefe

    @default user

    Hmmmm…alpha female huh. I’m in leadership yes and lead well. But I believe I’m a submissive woman. In fact the only place I dominate is at work and in my mind I’m submissive to the company’s needs and serve it. My life is rather full of submissive/service acts. I may have rushed through the questions.

    I do seek a man who is intellectual and alpha. As for wrestling with who is in charge not my struggle. I’m very easy going and even in my girl friend groups do not dominate. Plus I know on an intellectual level that I don’t want to be in charge in a relationship, so can be quite logical about working it through in my own head if a power struggle presented itself.

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  267. on May 30, 2009 at 8:58 am PA

    You seem to be saying God’s purpose with designing human beings is to produce maximum reproductive efficiency?

    God did focus on that angle as well — for termites and cockroaches.

    For creatures like eagles or humans, He may have been thinking quality over quantity.

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  268. on May 30, 2009 at 8:58 am Bhetti

    Def: Taking your test has made me feel stigmatised and a minority within the context of your comments. ISFP (heavy on the I, ‘slightly expressed’ on the rest) which makes me a total opposite to aofe.

    Why, Def, why? My irrational feelings are hurt, though technically I should not be saying I’m hurt with the heavy I.

    Also my poor baby fishy has red blood streaks. Seems to mean ammonia level is high. What if he dies? I’ve washed out the filter but have to wait for extra stuff I’ve ordered for water treatment.

    I have failed as a single fish mother and hold myself responsible.

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  269. on May 30, 2009 at 9:00 am Default User

    aoefe

    Just saw that you had a blog. I will check it out.

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  270. on May 30, 2009 at 9:04 am aoefe

    @default

    Admittedly a result of commenting here and not wanting to take up looooooooots of space in comments. This particular blog has me percolating stuff in my head, writing seemed a great way to put my thoughts down. Feedback welcomed.

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  271. on May 30, 2009 at 9:06 am Bhetti

    Def: I should’ve listened to you and taken advantage of your fish providing knowledge and not thought I could do it all on my own. My Doug jr. suffers for my single motherhood arrogance.

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  272. on May 30, 2009 at 9:07 am Default User

    Bhetti

    Def: Taking your test has made me feel stigmatised and a minority within the context of your comments. ISFP (heavy on the I, ’slightly expressed’ on the rest) which makes me a total opposite to aofe.

    I am surprised. I would have thought you to be another NT (perhaps INTP). Of course, how we write and how we live can be very different.

    Stigmati(s/z)ed , why? ISFPs can be very nice. A mixture of practicality, caring with a bit of rebellion.

    You might be heavy on the rebellion, but that is OK. 🙂

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  273. on May 30, 2009 at 9:15 am Default Fishkeeper

    Bhetti

    Regarding the fish:

    Be careful not to over feed. More food creates more waste (either fish droppings or uneaten food). Fish will tend to eat whatever you provide, even if that is too much for them.

    If you do not have it, you might need an aerator.

    If you have green moss on the sides of the tank, you need to get rid of it. The moss “steals” the oxygen from the water.

    I presume it is a tank, not a bowl. A tank provides a larger surface area for the water, which helps keep it oxygenated. If the fish spends a lot of time bobbing near the top of the water (not swimming) it could be lack of oxygen. [Aerator, moss, lack of surface area, fish too big/tank too small]

    I know this because I had to look in on a friend’s goldfish while they were away.

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  274. on May 30, 2009 at 9:20 am Default Fishkeeper

    Bhetti

    This sounds fishy
    http://thegab.org/Articles/DiagnosisChart.html

    And remember to get your Fish Licence.

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  275. on May 30, 2009 at 9:55 am Default Fishkeeper

    Blogger aoefe

    Admittedly a result of commenting here and not wanting to take up looooooooots of space in comments. This particular blog has me percolating stuff in my head, writing seemed a great way to put my thoughts down. Feedback welcomed.

    It looks good. I was going to post a comment, but I seem to need an account or something.

    Hmmmm…alpha female huh.

    The ENTJ type can be fairly Alpha. That is they can be very certain of their ideas, very decisive, and (being extrovert and logical) can be very direct. These are all Alpha qualities. In any case being Alpha woman is not necessarily bad, just that it can break expectations (e.g., being called a bitch when not deserved).

    It sounds like you have balanced your Alpha traits with your femininity. You may even have a bit of NF in you (and that would be a nice balance of pragmatism and caring).

    On the test: On thing to consider is to look at questions that were difficult. Retake the test changing those hard to answer ones. You may see where you are a bit of both (e.g., a bit of both T or F, N or S).

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  276. on May 30, 2009 at 9:56 am Default User

    Forgot to change my name back from previous post.

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  277. on May 30, 2009 at 9:59 am Default User

    Bhetti

    I know that I jokingly asked you to call me Def, but could you use “Default.”

    It is easy to miss “def” when scanning a post. If I have been away I will search on “Default” to catch any replies to me.

    –
    Default User

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  278. on May 30, 2009 at 10:10 am aoefe

    @default

    Changed my permissions so anyone can comment, not that you have to go back, but it was good you pointed it out.

    Yes there were some difficult questions and I may have contradicted myself doing the test, plus I’m in the habit of rushing. In fact I think that was a question and I was able to answer that one easily. 🙂 I plan on doing the test another time.

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  279. on May 30, 2009 at 10:13 am Bhetti

    Def: You mean to imply you don’t minutely scrutinise every inch of my brilliant commentary without exception? Ah, there goes my inflated self-esteem and there ups your alpha meter. Sure thing, will call you Default. I may accidentally forget in a fit of rebellion for aforementioned reasons.

    The problem with personality tests is that human beings are changeable, multi-dimensional. There’re simple things that can be consistently determined but I suppose I’m the type of person who can simply get vaguely different results from day to day, mood to mood, environment to environment.

    I perceive that result as being a slave to your emotions, which isn’t classically what I’ve demanded of myself. I think a certain Abelard has triggered delightful changes in that, though.

    Regarding the fish, don’t know if you’ve seen the picture but it’s a 30L biorb with a huge aerator. No moss. I watch him when he feeds to check if he’s eaten it all and do it less than recommended, have cleaned out any bits of leftovers. [But I think the chap’s a bit clever for a fish and has found a way to store them within his fishy gullet and regurg them later. Leave me to find one with an unusual IQ. But then all mothers say this of their babies.] Think I’ll switch the feed to one that’s easier to monitor later. Thank you for the chart. I’m solving it, water change/testing/etc.

    Actually, Doug’s a lovely long distance daddy in his amazing (but reluctant) way.

    Oh, dear, more neglect, I missed out on the Fish License! I’m not contemplating getting a coterie of pets and naming them all Doug jr. Naughty ideas, naughty.

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  280. on May 30, 2009 at 10:22 am Default User

    EN?? aoefe

    Changed my permissions so anyone can comment

    Pretty much said in my previous comment what I was going to say at chez aoefe. However, I will check back. Thanks.

    I’m in the habit of rushing.

    You “J” types, always rushing to get finished. Remember it is the journey not the destination.

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  281. on May 30, 2009 at 10:27 am Default User

    Bhetti

    On the fish: Just passed on the little I knew. Your tank sounds kind of cool. It figures that you would have the smartest fish around.

    I agree on personality tests. Fun to be taken with a pinch of salt. However, they can point in the general direction and sometimes deliver “Aha” moments.

    I may accidentally forget in a fit of rebellion

    Atta girl. Ups your alpha meter.

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  282. on May 30, 2009 at 10:28 am PA

    The ENTJ type can be fairly Alpha.

    Aren’t the Myers Brigg types orthagonal to alpha or betatude?

    It seems like you are equating extraversion with alphatude. But it’s possible to be a charismatic Alpha introvert or a loser jabbery extrovert.

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  283. on May 30, 2009 at 10:45 am Default User

    PA

    Aren’t the Myers Brigg types orthagonal to alpha or betatude? …

    I think the ENTJ has a collection of features that can seem alpha.

    It is the mixture of logic, in depth big picture view, decisiveness, and extroversion that can allow for alpha traits to emerge. A healthy ENTJ can have a powerful vision and the ability to move others to execute it. They are less likely to suffer self that doubt that might plague other types (e.g., those with a P as last letter).

    Of course you cannot put too much weight on a set of letters derived from a test. Nor do all people become perfect versions of their type.

    Any type can achieve alphaness. Extraverts may have a slight (because they are more out there) but not complete advantage.

    Also, I was using Alpha in the leadership sense. From the PUA sense it is even less clear.

    As a P type I am always open to changing my mind on these more philosophical questions.

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  284. on May 30, 2009 at 10:59 am doug1

    Aoefe

    I’m ENTJ too.

    Seems to me you’re clearly done for. You know just what I mean.

    And then you openly talk about being submissive in personal relationships, or wanting to be? But being a leader and decisive at your work? And you’ve indicated you’re single though someone possibly alpha enough is on the prowl after you. You do realize that’s like throwing chum in my water, don’t you? Driving certain types rather mad with desire? You do, right?

    I suspect you’re about the age of one of my two girls. If it wasn’t for her …

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  285. on May 30, 2009 at 11:30 am aoefe

    Doug

    “done for”

    You’ve got style I’ll certainly give you that. Oh and I’m busily watching Mad Men since it was referenced here and kind of loving it. You’ve got some of that Draper vibe.

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  286. on May 30, 2009 at 12:37 pm doug1

    Aeofe—

    I’ll just quote our Meyers-Briggs oracle Default:

    You [Aeofe] are probably a leader type. You have plenty of long-range vision, see the big picture, are logical, and directive (that’s polite for bossy). That can be difficult for a woman because of “cultural expectations” and all that.

    No doubt you do sometimes feel a stranger in a world that does not quite understand. ***

    Romantically (because this is a pick-up blog):
    You probably find it hard to find a man that measures up either in confidence or intellect.

    You really need an alpha guy. Of course the alpha guy will want to be in charge …

    You obviously need me. Desperately. A rare ENTJ brainy alpha like me that you’ve already shown a desire to follow.

    Aren’t you glad you finally found me?

    [Thinks to self: Now do I have room for a third?? Don’t know. She’s really gonna have to measure up.]

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  287. on May 30, 2009 at 12:45 pm aoefe

    Doug

    Well you certainly brought a smile or was that a chuckle to my day.

    [things to self: Now do I want to be a third? ]

    As for bossy type…never. In fact the day I become ‘bossy’ I will retire. I’m known for another B word however and no it’s not bitchy – it’s bubbly.

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  288. on May 30, 2009 at 1:11 pm doug1

    aoefe–

    As for bossy type…never. In fact the day I become ‘bossy’ I will retire. I’m known for another B word however and no it’s not bitchy – it’s bubbly.

    I know that aoefe. I knew our oracle was wrong about that bit. I could tell from other things you’ve said. It’s also part of why “Lady” Rain rubs you so much the wrong way.

    See how much you want to measure up for me. It’s a gut thing for you.

    You also want to follow me. Badly. I’ve felt it. You’re very drawn to me Aoefe. It’s a gut thing.

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  289. on May 30, 2009 at 1:16 pm doug1

    aoefe–

    Admit it to me aoefe. Admit it now.

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  290. on May 30, 2009 at 1:19 pm lf

    beta #1’s Argentinian bitch wife used to have an interesting pair of tits…

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  291. on May 30, 2009 at 1:30 pm doug1

    “Lady” Rain

    god you are so obvious

    Of course I’m being obvious. I’ve been obvious about my attraction to aoefe for a while. Nothing sneaky about my style at all.

    As for isolate, don’t be absurd.

    What a cockblocker, or attempted one, you are though. Even on an online board.

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  292. on May 30, 2009 at 1:36 pm Firepower

    mastur-bhetti
    I think the females automatically ignore Firepower, as he himself has taught them to do. Did you agree with that point about ‘That’s why Game works’, though? The established explanation for Game was based on evolutionary psychology as far as I saw, and not abstract talk of morality. I don’t see how it directly applies to whether Game works.

    see, men – her response proves my point.

    When Firepower teaches them – they stay taught. Game works like leashes, shock-collars and squirt bottles.

    I just hate it when I’m NOT ignored by dilettante alqueda drum majorettes – chubby crisp-addicts from feminized 2nd World countries.

    When she goes on hajj, allah-arguments will go with her. praise be upon him.

    get back on
    your paper

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  293. on May 30, 2009 at 1:48 pm Bhetti

    LR: You are reminding me of that time he came out with such brilliance, and I went ‘check out his moves!’ to everyone else. His performance is a beauty, isn’t it?

    *sigh*

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  294. on May 30, 2009 at 1:49 pm doug1

    Lady Rain

    I felt like I had walked in on two people having sex

    You did.

    Or the foreplay.

    And now …

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  295. on May 30, 2009 at 1:53 pm doug1

    Bhetti-

    Hi there gorgeous!

    Wanna do an e-threesome?

    Now don’t go all modest on me. That’s a mission.

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  296. on May 30, 2009 at 2:03 pm aoefe

    I’m getting sleepy, I’m getting sleepy… Yes Doug I am listening to your voice only…I will only read your responses…I will ignore everyone else…yes, your Game is the best…yes you have good taste in women…yes…

    I’m off to shop, shop, hotel, dance, sleep. Back tomorrow – have a good one. Later gaters.

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  297. on May 30, 2009 at 2:04 pm doug1

    aoefe–

    *chuckles*

    Quite good that.

    Later. I’m off too.

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  298. on May 30, 2009 at 2:05 pm Bhetti

    Doug: I can’t refuse you anything, especially since you’re such a connoisseur when it comes to making a choice 😉

    LikeLike


  299. on May 30, 2009 at 2:08 pm doug1

    Bhetti

    *kiss*

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  300. on May 30, 2009 at 6:00 pm A.J. Travis

    This is a perfect example of the Roissy routine:

    Find a Beta.
    Deride his mistakes.
    Dangle the hope that by reading this blog every day (and his book later) The Beta will never fall victim to predatory women again…
    But in the end, teach them to emulate the asshole Alpha men who have colluded with evil women to perpetuate this shitty situation in the first place.

    This solution guarantees that the cycle continues, except instead of the Betas being pussywhipped, they’re now Roissy whipped.

    You can construct a concrete argument why a Jew in Auschwitz should volunteer to clean out the ovens (they’ll live longer.)

    But in the end, they’re all doomed.

    If we as Betas follow the Alpha model on how to live our lives, we will only fan the flames of our destruction.

    Remember, Beta men, who your wives and girlfriend are cheating on you with. (Roissy and guys like him.)

    Beware the Alpha traitors among us. They benefit by keeping us enslaved.

    More here if you want to know:
    http://ar2012.blogspot.com

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  301. on May 30, 2009 at 6:08 pm chic noir

    My preciooous wants the 10-ply strawberry scented toilet paper

    The woman who uses such toilet paper will suffer an infection with a fiery itch more powerful that the Greek god Hephaestus.

    Check. “Dates” were sexually arid conversations about politics and literature
    What’s so wrong about dates were the focus is on politics and literature? Not every culture is as obsessed with sex as American culture is.

    If this guy was any sort of man, he would have backhanded her across the face and threw her shit out the window
    And been in jail for days with his future at the times tarnished. In my eyes, the only time it’s okay for a man to slap a woman is when he is attempting to save his life.

    She told TV channel Fox 4: “Out of all people in America and of all people in the world, it had to happen to me. I’m very shocked
    Funy enough, Maury had on a woman who did the very same thing. For some reason, the father had a strong sense that he wasn’t the father of both of those kids.

    How horny does a woman have to be to jump from one unprotected cock to another in the same day? How stupid?
    You’re right, even street walkers protect themselves.

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  302. on May 30, 2009 at 7:25 pm chic noir

    Kinda looks like a day in the life of the g manifesto after chapter 7 bankruptcy .

    Racer x DB and Lady Rain….Many women have told me that the sound of a man’s voice can be a deal breaker.

    I think it can be.
    Remember what went through your mind the first time you heard Mike Tyson’s voice.

    Even if he isn’t all that nice to look at, Roosh’s voice is very very very manly. I was shocked the first time I heard his voice.

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  303. on May 30, 2009 at 10:33 pm Breeze

    @ Chic, are you saying Mike Tyson’s voice is a turn on or a turn off?

    And what does the Aussie accent do for you?

    LikeLike


  304. on May 31, 2009 at 9:35 am Default User

    chic noir asked:

    What’s so wrong about dates were the focus is on politics and literature?

    If you are looking to be romantic partners as compared to book-buddies (intellect) or hug-buddies (friendship) then there needs to be some sexual connection.

    The date does not have to end in sex, but there must be some sexual vibe. That can be nothing more than a caress or a kiss. At the very least, it involves some none intellectual conversation.

    Whether they do anything about it or not, a man and a woman will know if mutual sexual attraction exists. If it exists there is a very good chance the conversation will not all be about books and politics.

    [Of course, intellectual sparring can be a “cover” for sexual attraction and form part of the “mating dance.” That does not sound like what happened here]

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  305. on May 31, 2009 at 12:46 pm aoefe

    @default

    I’ve had some aha moments since taking the test. Last night my girlfriend and I went over the men I’ve been attracted to (and dated). The pattern showed I’m attracted to extraverted, feeling men. I’m slightly extraverted and like someone who has a stronger personality than mine and I like him to be a feeler to balance out my logic.

    I did think about the B-word (bubbly) and I think it’s because of the E not the F. I’m enthusiastic/positive which doesn’t necessarily translate to F does it? Curious.

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  306. on May 31, 2009 at 1:35 pm Default Myers

    logical aoefe

    I’ve had some aha moments since taking the test. Last night my girlfriend and I went over the men I’ve been attracted to (and dated). The pattern showed I’m attracted to extraverted, feeling men. I’m slightly extraverted and like someone who has a stronger personality than mine and I like him to be a feeler to balance out my logic.

    I did think about the B-word (bubbly) and I think it’s because of the E not the F. I’m enthusiastic/positive which doesn’t necessarily translate to F does it?
    Curious.

    Curious. Of course you are it is the nature of NT types.

    I would associate “bubbly” with Extraversion and Feeling together. However, extraversion is probably the more important. One point to remember is that we are not one or the other, Thinkers can use Feeling (empathy) and Feelers can use Thinking (logic). The letter is more of a preference for, or perhaps skill in using, one or the other.

    Most people will tend to live in one but visit the other. It is a bit like a right-handed person using their left hand (or vice-versa). Some people are fairly good, some are ambidextrous, and some are complexly unable to use their “other hand.”

    One way to compare Thinking to Feeling is the why of the decision. Logic (Thinking) is about the correct, most efficient, most sensible decision. For Feelers it is about the decision that is the fairest, promotes harmony, etc.

    From the outside we might admire Thinking leaders but will be inspired by Feeling leaders.

    The problem faced by Feeling men (about 35 percent) is that it may seem soft or feminine. This is, of course, the reverse of the problem for Thinking women (also about 35 percent) who may seem hard and unfeminine.
    [I am sure that is not the case for you – he said playing safely and wanting to avoid the wrath of an ENTJ 🙂 ]

    The female preference for more Extraverted males is the bane of the Introverted males life.

    I wonder do you prefer Perceiving types to Judging types. That is do you like to balance your decisiveness (J) with more flexible (playful?) P attitude? Or do you find that type weak because of their indecision?
    [As a P type I think some J type women have liked me for that reason]

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  307. on May 31, 2009 at 3:29 pm sara I

    Sorry, Roissy. I find your BOTM too boring to read actually.

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  308. on May 31, 2009 at 3:58 pm chic noir

    Breeze
    @ Chic, are you saying Mike Tyson’s voice is a turn on or a turn off?
    Oh God, a turn off.

    And what does the Aussie accent do for you?
    It’s an accent that I don’t have any positive or negative feelings for.

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  309. on May 31, 2009 at 3:59 pm xsplat

    Rum

    I suspect she would be a more efficient predator if she was untroubled by self knowledge

    The man understands women.

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  310. on May 31, 2009 at 11:46 pm Tupac Chopra - SecretSociety Agent Man

    Lady Rain:

    Tupac–

    I did not need you to break down the story itself. Yes, yes the woman is a bitch and will eventually get what she deserves…. and the man is a puss and will probably do it again.

    You still ain’t getting it.

    You are attempting to draw a moral equivalency here where there isn’t one.

    Yes, the woman is a bitch — because she was a selfish and demanding without thinking of anything larger than her own interests.

    The man on the other hand was a “puss” because he (foolishly) was trying to do the “right” thing by being attentive to his wife’s needs in order to save the marriage. *He* was the one who was attempting to rise above his narrow self-interest. The reason he was foolish is because he bought into the LIE that society tells him it is NOBLE to be a beta-provider, when in fact, HE should have been the selfish one expecting his wife to go along with HIS needs.

    As someone else noted, it’s similar to the dynamic between a sleazy used car salesman and the naive patsy who falls for his bullshit. Yeah, the used car salesman is a scumbag, and the guy who fell for it is a dupe, but for you to draw a moral equivalence between the two is reprehensible.

    One of them was a predator and the other was hoping to believe in the beneficence of his fellow man.

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  311. on June 1, 2009 at 1:06 am aoefe

    @default

    “I wonder do you prefer Perceiving types to Judging types. That is do you like to balance your decisiveness (J) with more flexible (playful?) P attitude? Or do you find that type weak because of their indecision?
    [As a P type I think some J type women have liked me for that reason]”

    I really like the P type. I love to laugh and a guy who can make me, he’s the bomb! (I saw you call yiourself Class Clown – yep always an asset with moi).

    “…This is, of course, the reverse of the problem for Thinking women (also about 35 percent) who may seem hard and unfeminine.”

    I know for sure I’m a Thinking woman; in fact I have to purposely stop myself when on a particular mental track and check to see what my gut is telling me. I’ve become much better at paying attention to feelings, especially my own. That said even being a Thinking girl I would never be accused of being unfeminine or hard. I’m the consummate girlie girl.

    Thanks for taking me on the Myers/Briggs journey this last couple of days – opened up new avenues of thought for me. I’m ‘feeling’ it might change things up in my dating life.

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  312. on June 1, 2009 at 9:24 am Default User

    the delightfully girly (but still logical) aoefe

    That said even being a Thinking girl I would never be accused of being unfeminine or hard. I’m the consummate girlie girl.

    That of course is why I hedged (typical P maneuver) with the word “may”.

    Here is my Thinking women experience that illustrates what can happen.

    I am INxP (Introverted, iNtuitive, Perceiving but divided on T/F – maybe slightly more T).
    I don’t know for sure, but she was probably INTJ (heavy on T).

    I enjoy using humor to break the ice and establish emotional connection. She, however, assumed we were playing some kind of word game. So instead of breaking the ice and forging a connection we were in a battle of wits. She may have enjoyed it, but to me it was misery*. For God’s sake, I am an introvert. I have made the effort** to go out. If I had wanted to play word games I could have done the crossword at home, in peace. Needless to say there was no second date. As they say, “Epic Fail.” I hope she and Mr. Spock are happy together.
    [I understand that you are probably not like that. It was just an illustration.]
    [Contrary to type expectations I do not really enjoy word games]

    * She was probably a good bit smarter than me as well, which made it even worse.

    ** I know it is hard for more extrovert types to understand but the social stuff can be draining for introverts.

    PS:

    Thanks for taking me on the Myers/Briggs journey this last couple of days – opened up new avenues of thought for me. I’m ‘feeling’ it might change things up in my dating life.

    First hint: Keep an eye out for those introverted guys. They are easy to miss but can have hidden depths. 😉

    Second hint: Remember to appreciate the journey (it even has a J in it) as much as arrival.

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  313. on June 1, 2009 at 10:03 am Pupu

    Pupu has the same personality profile as Default.

    LikeLike


  314. on June 1, 2009 at 10:28 am Default User

    Pupu

    Pupu has the same personality profile as Default.

    Pupu is no doubt a wonderful person.

    Where/how did Pupu get her name?
    [I believe that Pupu is a she, please correct Default User if he is incorrect]

    LikeLike


  315. on June 1, 2009 at 10:39 am aoefe

    Default

    “If I had wanted to play word games I could have done the crossword at home, in peace.”

    LOL. I had a date recently which only in retrospect did I realize why he wouldn’t call again. He said I was the only girl he knew who’d read Good to Great by Jim Collins and then later as I enthusiastically, positively described my company he said “I bet you wouldn’t say shit if your mouth was full of it.” I said “You’re right!” with a huge grin. It was only later I realized both of the comments were meant as insults. He didn’t want a smart chick, he wanted a naughty one. I was not attracted to him in any way, which is why I’d even talk business on date, but I didn’t realize at the time how poorly it was going for him. I think he’d have the same feelings as you except maybe, “I should have stayed home and watched porn.”

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  316. on June 1, 2009 at 10:39 am Pupu

    Default is, as usual, correct. Pupu is a she.

    Pupu, the name, comes from nowhere and goes nowhere. It is only here.

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  317. on June 1, 2009 at 10:46 am Firepower

    and if she were ‘pupup’ she’d be

    an anagram

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  318. on June 1, 2009 at 10:58 am Pupu

    Firepower,

    Pupu is not ‘pupup’ but love the idea of being an anagram. If her genetic constructs is anagramic, Pupu would like to switch into a dolphin.

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  319. on June 1, 2009 at 11:04 am Default User

    aoefe

    I would have no problem talking about business/work/career, like humor it can be a ice-breaker. And if someone is passionate about it no necessarily an unromantic buzz kill. Although I am aware that such conversations can lead to the dreaded friend zone.

    At the very least in a similar situation I would have enjoyed stimulating conversation that would be so much better than crossword puzzles and word games.

    So is biz talk your way of “ejecting?” In other words if you start talking about Good to Great it means the date is going from Bad to Worse?

    Also, what about a smart chick who can be naughty? Now there is something worth chasing.

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  320. on June 1, 2009 at 11:11 am Firepower

    As Napoleon once lamented:

    able was I, ere I saw Elba

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  321. on June 1, 2009 at 12:12 pm doug1

    Pupu–

    Default is, as usual, correct. Pupu is a she.

    I’ve never had the slightest doubt about that.

    Well there was one moment when the theories to the contrary were going strong around here when I thought abt it for a few secs, and then concluded, naaaaaah. A she.

    As well that you’d score high on both introversion and feeling/empathy seems exactly right to me. (I’m not precisely following either of the personality tests here.)

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  322. on June 1, 2009 at 1:03 pm Virginia Gentleman

    Default User:

    Oh, no worries; I just wasn’t really sure of the whole place in the Roissyian world for the INTJ and was genuinely curious. The whole discussion in the last couple of threads stirred my interest in that field again.

    I agree with regards to argumentative; I’ll argue over plenty of things, but the tendency to get carried away with it is coming under control. Maybe it’s that getting older thing. Anyways, where logical’s concerned, I get rapped on the knuckles from time to time about, especially if I don’t knuckle under to some empathy-based argument.

    There may be no such thing as “last word” on the Internet, but there’s always first!, etc.

    Days of Broken Arrows:

    Good on you! You might be able to pick up something there without much of a fight, which is the point. I see my long-range interest in Miss Scientist as more of a “reasonable inquiry”, where I’m not risking much (if anything) by looking into the situation. Perhaps it will play out, perhaps it won’t.

    Just be sure to have alternatives. I certainly do; in the event that I wind up actively or something-more-than-passively pursuing Miss Scientist, I’ll have plenty of contingencies. It’s what I do, after all; I’m one of those evil INTJ types according to the test linked further up the page. That tracks with what I’ve run into recently using various Web-based iterations of the test, with a previous tendency towards ISTJ. That’s unsurprising, given the background I’ve got. Both seem to serve well.

    Question: Do ISTJs tend towards beta providership?

    To address something in the other thread, I don’t agree about internalizing 1950s values. While yes, that’d be a great situation to be in and have command of, this ain’t Mad Men, and I don’t have Joan Holloway near my desk or Elizabeth Draper at home. I do, however, agree about my particular situation being a problem of marketing, and that’s why I’m here.

    Self-consciousness strikes me as a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it’s right and proper to worry about whether your fly’s open. On the other hand, you can get locked into a self-defeating loop of agony and doubt. Surely Alec Baldwin’s character in Glengarry Glen Ross doesn’t have this problem, but he’s a caricature. I was sort of hoping that Ed Harris would plant one of those steak knives in Baldwin, but it didn’t happen. I couldn’t imagine letting some stranger insultingly order me to put the coffee down and me doing so—I’d probably finish pouring it just for spite.

    That being said, should we say, “ABG” for “Always Be Gaming”?

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  323. on June 1, 2009 at 1:04 pm Pupu

    Doug,

    Along the four dimensions in Myers Briggs, Pupu scores unambiguously on iNtuitive and Perceiving, and to some extent, on Introverted, but divided on Thinking/Feeling.

    You are right about Pupu’s gender identity all along, but the description you once made of Pupu was rather off 🙂

    LikeLike


  324. on June 1, 2009 at 1:43 pm Momus

    New topic needed.

    LikeLike


  325. on June 1, 2009 at 3:39 pm aoefe

    @default

    I really think he should have changed the direction of the conversation if it wasn’t pleasing him. I was engaged in the topic and he seemed to be, although he had an annoying habit of saying my name almost every second sentence. “So aoefe, what you’re saying is…” Too much.

    For me talk of business does not mean it’s a bad date, I love the subject. I think in this case it was bad for him, he had referenced a date with a lawyer which was very business like. I didn’t think I was being business like so I didn’t think anything of it.

    I do have a naughty streak, yeppers. He didn’t even attempt to go there, and NOPE I never go there first. 🙂

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  326. on June 1, 2009 at 5:41 pm Default User

    aoefe, aoefe, aoefe, aoefe, aoefe, aoefe

    …had an annoying habit of saying my name almost every second sentence.

    Aoefe, I know how annoying that can be Aoefe. You know Aoefe, it is like he read it in a book and took it too literally. I will tell you Aoefe that would annoy me too.
    [That was even painful to write]

    I am glad to see that am not the only one capable of messing up a perfectly good date. I am not sure if my gladness is schadenfreude or just the calming notion that I am not the only one. The feeling after a screwed up date can be very dispiriting.

    PS
    Although I have not read the book (I will look it up) it is probably a conversational thread I would follow because it would interest me. The danger is that I end up been seen as a book-buddy (intellectual partner) not a sexual/romantic partner at the end of the date even though we both enjoyed it.
    [Yes that has happened to me, no I was not able to recover, and yes it is a miserable feeling]

    That is probably more than enough Feeling stuff for now. You can go here for recovery.

    PPS
    Any news on Airport Guy? Please tell me the above was not him.

    PPPS
    Glad to hear about the naughty streak. We can talk about that another time. 😉

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  327. on June 1, 2009 at 7:47 pm aoefe

    Default

    Logical to de fault (not really I like your logic)

    “I am glad to see that am not the only one capable of messing up a perfectly good date.”

    I’m going with you are glad you’re not the only one rather than taking pleasure in someone else screwing up.

    “The danger is that I end up been seen as a book-buddy (intellectual partner) not a sexual/romantic partner at the end of the date even though we both enjoyed it.”

    Does it matter what the conversation is to determine if there is a sexual/romantic partner potential? I think fairly early on the man (yes leaving it up to you) should be sending a clear signal to the woman he’s interested. It shouldn’t be all moon eyes and gushing, but something clear and direct about being pleased he’s with her or some such jazz.

    The men who I have given the romantic vote to have all been very clear and bold in their interest of me early in the game. I think women, or maybe it’s just me, need to know if he has interest before she says or does something that opens her up for rejection. Clear interest alone will sometimes be all it takes for me to imagine a potential romantic entangling. Then I take really good stock of his other qualities. Looks not needing to figure prominently (which you guys have already figured out).

    Mind you who am I to give advice I’m still single. 🙂

    Plane dude – He’s working out of town. Our phone discussions have mostly revolved around my unwillingness to be fuck buddy material while he figures out his own shit re does he want a relationship or not. There is definite sexual chemistry although I told him rather empty at the end of the day if that’s all there is. Not to say I want to marry him, but I’d rather know it was building to some sort of potential.

    Naughty Streak – You will have to start the conversation. 😉

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  328. on June 1, 2009 at 8:26 pm Default User

    book buddy aoefe

    Does it matter what the conversation is to determine if there is a sexual/romantic partner potential? I think fairly early on the man (yes leaving it up to you) should be sending a clear signal to the woman he’s interested.

    Yes, despite being single your advice sounds OK.

    I think fairly early on the man (yes leaving it up to you) should be sending a clear signal to the woman he’s interested.

    As you said, it is up to me. Such knowledge does not make it any easier when (for whatever reason) I screw things up. As you said, a good clear expression of interest is best. In the situation I described I obviously, I did not handle the “signal” very well. I don’t really remember the details, just the outcome.
    [anyway that is enough pity party stuff. I am staring to bore myself.]
    [us introverts can fall into… well… introspection if we are not careful]

    Regarding plane dude: there is always book-buddy (see earlier post), and hug-buddy (see David Alexander).

    Regarding naughty streak: Yes you did warn me I would have to raise it. I was listening…

    Dragged from my bookmarks:
    http://www.personalitypage.com/ENTJ_rel.html
    [It describes the ENTJ in relationships. Not really naughty but there it is]
    Is that accurate?

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  329. on June 1, 2009 at 10:47 pm aoefe

    naughty default

    I really have to take the test again, I really didn’t identify with the traits. I’m a leader, thinker, but the last thing from controlling. If anything I’m accused of being too nice. Which in fact ended the last two relationships I was in (six weeks was the longest). I think it’s perceived as trying too hard. Well in fact one guy said that. I don’t believe I’m trying anything, just being me. Honestly, I feel like men expect a bit more shit testing from me and I don’t really do that. When I know I like you, I like you, simple. I’m affectionate but not clingy, but I think I make myself too available. This is going to sound vain and it isn’t meant to, but my girlfriends say its because I don’t recognize my attractiveness and sell myself short. They say the men want me to play cooler than I feel. I’m pretty sure they’re right which means I need to learn girl game.

    Quote from link
    “Sexually, the ENTJ is robust, imaginative and enthusiastic. Their natural instinct to lead will be apparent in this arena as well as other areas of life, and they will lead their partner on creative lovemaking adventures, where the focus is on mutual learning and affection sharing. They’re likely to expect sex on a relatively scheduled basis.”

    Absolutely yes to robust, imaginative and enthusiastic. I will not lead in the bedroom, don’t like to AT all. Sexually very expressive and open to exploration yes.

    Schedule Schmedule I’m open to spontaneous frequent encounters and not confined to a certain place to engage either. Like I said should take the test again. Slightly E is right and T sound right.

    Obviously I don’t need much prompting on the naughty huh? 😉 So feel free to ‘link’ me to your naughty side.

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  330. on June 1, 2009 at 10:56 pm chic noir

    my darling default the delightfully girly (but still logical) aoefe

    😯

    well I’ll be. what worked for doug also works for default. After my mindless flirting, he now has a mini harem first sara I not aoefe.

    *light bulb goes off*

    *drags a drugged default to the tatoo parlor*

    Yes sir tattoo the property of chic noir on his pubic bone with an arrow pointing down

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  331. on June 1, 2009 at 11:13 pm aoefe

    @chic noir

    Not intending to step on your lovely toes. 🙂 And hey are you suggesting I’m easy Ms. Noir?

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  332. on June 2, 2009 at 11:05 am Default User

    A note: I view “type” more as a metaphor (hey I am an iNtuitive) than a fixed description. It is the map not the territory. Few of us will be perfect examples of our archetype. We also probably show different faces at different times, or to different groups. This is probably even truer of those with weaker preferences on any axis).

    In your case you are probably more F in your social/romantic environment. You may even be less E (wanting the man to lead). It is possible that you become more F as you get to know (and trust) people.

    T is a useful armor in a world that can be cruel and heartless. I know some feeling types that are often hurt by the sticks and stones flung by the world. For Thinking types T is the shield they use to deflect those stones.

    Due to my complete uniqueness *cough* I need two web pages to describe me. I am mixture of INTP/INFP.
    http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP_rel.html
    http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP_rel.html

    As expected the two tend to balance each other out to some degree. This is especially noticeable in the area of conflict. I do prefer to avoid conflict but will comfortably handle if needed.

    I tend to be warm and loyal (NF) but am not “gushy” or a puppy dog (the NT at work). As an introvert I probably do not share my feelings quite as expressively as many partners would like. However unlike the INTP, I am not entirely unaware of other’s emotional needs.

    On sexual relations I am (again) a mixture. I enjoy the fun, playful explorative side but also enjoy the spiritual/emotional connection [this is not so much about bonding as an in the moment type of thing]. Sensing (especially SP) types are probably much more bound up in the purely physical aspect.

    Anyway we are already well into TMI territory, so I will stop here.

    One note of interest is this.

    From the INTP description:
    Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship, the INTP’s natural partner is the ENTJ, or the ESTJ.

    Just sayin’…
    *Aoefe rushes of to retake the test or find an ESTJ friend to distract me.*
    [Actually I don’t entirely buy the above, so relax]

    After all that we both need a dose of logic or crosswords or something.

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  333. on June 2, 2009 at 4:46 pm aoefe

    @default

    No desire to rush off. 😉

    “After all that we both need a dose of logic or crosswords or something.”

    Or a cigarette. (except I don’t smoke).

    Your loyaly quality is an admirable thing, coming from someone who is also very loyal to her peeps.

    On the E side for me, I like being the centre of attention once I’ve read the group and feel like I’d have a good audience. Perhaps my need to perform (professional singer/actor past life). In real life I consider myself somewhat introverted which people who know me think is hilarious. I think I am quiet/held back until I’ve taken the temp. Just like this blog I make comments but hold back while I await the response. I seek positive attention, never negative. Hence my irritation with a certain someone here.

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  334. on June 2, 2009 at 5:02 pm aoefe

    @chic noir

    “well I’ll be. what worked for doug also works for default. After my mindless flirting, he now has a mini harem first sara I now aoefe.

    I guess if Doug’s or Default’s approach, which is kindness, challenge and interest happens to be Game, then I’m happy to be Gamed. If I were here to be Gamed then it would in fact be working. I’m here however to learn how men think and if I make a couple of friends along the way, terrific!

    My first weekend here saw the 1400+ thread within which Miss L.R. figured prominently. I scolded the men for giving her so much damned attention. I was advised by a women posting here to be supportive of women here as we were a small group. I took the advice and have not commented negatively since. However I have not seen any evidence of female solidarity mostly veiled insults from other women about me ‘stealing’ men. I find that more discouraging than all the other stuff I’m reading from some of the misogynists.

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  335. on June 2, 2009 at 6:27 pm Default User

    aoefe

    I am certainly glad that you are not rushing off.

    On the no smoking: I am glad to hear that as well. Smoking is a deal breaker for me.

    On the shit-testing: I understand where it comes from (“is he for real?”) but would not miss it. My guess is you have a good measure of your dates and don’t need it (iNtuitives can be very good at reading people – F types tend to be better).

    On “performing”: I have given speeches/presentations. I enjoy it and I am good at it. Many would be surprised to hear me describe myself as Introvert. Proof that you can fool some of the people at least some of the time.

    On LR: It is the Internet. Combat for nerds. The place where arguments never die. We have a group of argumentative men and one argumentative chick, what did you expect? The fact that she has a bio that almost perfectly touches on points of sensitivity here just adds fuel to the fire.

    Regarding the e-flirting/stealing women: There is an element of lightheartedness about it. At least I hope so. That said I do keep a wary eye on Doug…

    For some of the other stuff, remember there is a lot of posturing on the Internet. For some there is bitterness over disappointments in love and mistreatment by the legal system. I can sympathize with the former (can’t we all?) and understand the later (thankfully having avoided the divorce/custody fights).

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  336. on June 2, 2009 at 11:45 pm aoefe

    @L.R.

    I admit at first (my first day) I was baffled by the attention you were getting from men who seemed to be all about being alpha and it just seemed so beta to keep you engaged. I was new what can I say. Now I know you represent everything they’re against and you prove their points beautifully.

    You personally frustrate me because you don’t seem to be reading what’s being said. To you, around you, about you, doesn’t matter, you seem unwilling to listen.

    Being logical I’m having a tough time discerning why you’re here. What’s the agenda?

    As for going with the crowd I’m in agreement with a lot of what’s being said. When I don’t comment it’s because I have nothing to add or I’m simply uninformed. The only bullshit I’ve commented on has been about you. I was chastised by other women.

    Oh and believe me my decision not to comment unfavourably about you had NOTHING to do with you dear. Solidarity with your kind is the last thing I’d want.

    So I guess I broke some sort of ‘rule’ by saying I don’t want to be associated with you woman or no. Oh well. 🙂

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  337. on June 2, 2009 at 11:51 pm aoefe

    @default

    “On the no smoking: I am glad to hear that as well.
    Smoking is a deal breaker for me.”

    Me too. 🙂

    “Regarding the e-flirting/stealing women: There is an element of lightheartedness about it. At least I hope so.”

    Ok thanks for that. Inspite of being a T, I can be a bit oversensitive or perhaps that’s because I’m a T and I overthink things. Or maybe I’m right… (maybe bi-polar!) lol

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  338. on June 3, 2009 at 9:21 am aoefe

    @LR

    I should add your ‘type’ doesn’t mean single moms. I meant the type not willing to shut up and listen occasionally.

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  339. on June 3, 2009 at 9:47 am Default User

    aoefe

    Regarding LR: I see you got some of your ENTJ on but don’t get sucked in. It sometimes seems that we are the last two holdouts. 🙂
    [and even I have commented]

    Regarding smoking: What are you going to do when you meet that bad-boy thuggish guy that all women want (or so I am told)? He will certainly smoke.

    Regarding the bipolar thing: I have heard it said that every woman is a bit bi. 😉

    I realized that the dating stories I related above all had failed endings. I would not want you, other readers, or posterity (when the Roissy files are dug up in 500 years) to think of me as a total chump. So here is a dating story with a happy ending:

    [Myers-Briggs analysis added post-facto; I do not try to type everyone I meet]
    She was quiet and sensible type. Very pretty but hid it (slightly) with very conservative dress style. I could detect a sense of fun underneath that slightly serious exterior. She was Likely and ISTJ or ISFJ. I figure ISTJ because although quite warm there was a businesslike manner to her decision-making.

    Because of my own style I was to her, like her very own bad-boy (albeit with the volume way down). She would say something about “I couldn’t do that because…” and I would reply along the lines of “screw ‘em, do what you want.”
    [her previous boyfriends (not many, I suspect) had been more serious types]

    One Sunday evening we were together bemoaning the start of a new workweek. Suddenly I said, “Phone in sick.” She replied that she “couldn’t to that.” She relented when I threatened to phone the company on her behalf. On Monday we made our calls and turned a weekend into a long weekend. We had a great day, not doing much, just two rebels *cough* enjoying the city. She loved it and was in a bouncy/giggly mood all day.

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  340. on June 3, 2009 at 12:23 pm aoefe

    @default

    “[Myers-Briggs analysis added post-facto; I do not try to type everyone I meet]”

    Well then I’m really flattered you ‘typed’ me.

    As to LR : you’re right.

    As to your dating history: I never had any doubt you’ve had success. Your approach here is certainly *cough* bang on. 😉

    As to smoking, thug dude: Nope will not compromise, I think its a disgusting habit. That said I did have a recent short-term thing with a non-smoking thug type. He looked like a muscley, tough, hard man. Had the rooster strut down pat. He had a good, blue collar job. Good work ethic too. Sexually very dominating. Declared himself NOT to be a player. Said after date one he wanted no more distractions as he got to know me better and wanted to concentrate solely on moi. I fell hook, line and sinker for this guy. Friends said after the intense thing died (one month) that he looked like trailer trash. I was like wah?? I just didn’t see it. He had maximum Game and was true blue alpha. He would never even need to read this stuff and I’m case in point that macho shit works. It bugs the hell out of me too! To admit that is tough and I debate posting it. I should tell you how he broke up with me. Text message. Yep. Nice. We did meet again after the text because I’d sent him an email which called his move immature (it was) and he wanted to leave another type of impression on me. He actually acted like he wanted to get back together, very apologetic about the text and then we made sweet love….and then he said but you’re too good for me and too confident and I want that confidence for myself so I’m breaking up with you…and I will date others to find myself. LOL! It’s really funny now, but I was like wtf at the time. I will say that although there was strong physical attraction I saw character flaws early. He is not the man or type of man I want. I think my experience with him was good for many reasons. One being it tells me what to look for in player-alpha dude types, this blogs helps there too. Two being don’t rush into sex, it clouds things for women. I get emotionally bonded by sex and that’s going to make me overlook other stuff. I like sex of course and I need to be sexually attracted in order to develop a relationship, but building the tension is far more preferable. It was the first sweep out of my clothes thing I’ve had and although an experience I don’t want to repeat it.

    In summary: Women may like thug types for initial attraction but in the long term they are not mate material. If you’re looking for short term fun they rock.

    P.S. – I can’t believe I solidified for some men here that Game works. Mind you it’s not as if they didn’t know it already.

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  341. on June 3, 2009 at 5:01 pm Default User

    aoefe

    I’m case in point that macho shit works. It bugs the hell out of me too! To admit that is tough and I debate posting it.

    It probably depresses me more than it angers you.
    [I imagine some will be jumping for joy, but not I.]
    Thanks for you honesty in posting it.

    But you did cheer me up with this:

    Your approach here is certainly *cough* bang on

    Thanks!

    PS
    I actually guessed ENTJ for a certain mutual friend [Sorry LR, just a joke] I am not sure I could guess your type even now (if I did not know it). That other poster had a distinct style that you do not. I sometimes get flashes of inspiration like I did for LR. Your style is more balanced, a nice mixture of clarity (logic) and warmth (feeling) but nothing I could type. Although as I said, the Internet (and this place) does seem to attract NT types above their numbers in the general population.

    It is nice when I man can use a bit of nerdy knowledge to get a woman to talk to him. So for that I am glad. 🙂

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  342. on June 3, 2009 at 5:17 pm Default User

    I was not going add this, but I changed my mind (hey mind changing is not just for women you know)

    I am depressed because:

    You will likely remember the Alpha dude more than you remember the so-called quality guys, despite the outcome.

    The next guy will be denied or delayed sex because of the Alpha guys success. That is next guy is punished for the previous guy’s reward.

    It does kind of prove that while nice guys may get fucked over they are less likely to get fucked. [I dislike cynicism, but sometimes it is hard to avoid]

    Now you know why it sucks to be a beta male and why we worry so much about such stuff.

    God what a mewling mess of misery this post is. I almost did not bother clicking “submit.”
    [I played honesty to your honesty]

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  343. on June 3, 2009 at 9:53 pm aoefe

    @honest default

    Man, you’re very easy to like. I have a crush I’ll admit it. (gulps as she imagines the wrath of the lovely chic noir)

    You said “I am depressed…”

    I am suffering with my own depression since visiting here. I’m not in the optimal age range for chicks and not in the 8 – 10 category that men so desperately want to bang. I thought I had more going for me before I visited. Sigh…

    I think you’re wrong about remembering the alpha guy more. I’m honestly still unsure about the alpha guy thing anyways. I guess I use the terms dominant and submissive, so maybe the same thing? I don’t think there are large quantities of truly submissive men floating about maybe conditioned to be but not at their root nature.

    I figured out only in the last couple of years what I really wanted in a partner, nailed it down as far as type. Dominant because I’m submissive (like most women really are at their root). When (if) I meet a man who I’m attracted to, who is attracted to me, who has great character qualities I would have a very clear conversation about what I was hoping for in a relationship. For me the hope is he has the reigns. Simple. I think there are many ‘trained’ betas who would love this opportunity and undo his own conditioning. The trick is getting him to really grab hold of his authority. I think I’ll have him read here huh? 😉

    You said “The next guy will be denied or delayed sex because of the Alpha guys success. That is next guy is punished for the previous guy’s reward”

    Oh believe me I don’t have the patience to wait too long before sex occurs so a beta man who I’m into (yes that exists) will not have to be deprived. If the sexual tension is there both will appreciate a wait. I’m not about rules for how long the wait is. Frankly I’d be punishing myself if I have to wait too long.

    Funny, witty, thoughtful, challenging, intelligent men get my vote FAR over thug types my dating history proves it. Plus who am I hanging around and with and crushing for on this blog? huh? 😉

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  344. on June 4, 2009 at 10:51 am Default User

    my e-crush aoefe

    Man, you’re very easy to like. I have a crush I’ll admit it.
    …
    Plus who am I hanging around and with and crushing for on this blog? huh?

    Thanks that sort of felt like
    😳 🙂 😀 😎

    To avoid making this too long I will just say that I probably read too much into your original answer. I love this latest answer. I understand the “grabbing his authority” bit. I am not the simpering submissive that some of these answers sound like (really).

    I don’t think you need to too depressed either. You too might be reading too much into the opinions of the blogmaster. I mean who is the one the DJ/class comedian hanging out with, huh? 😉

    And chic noir is far to sweet and lovely to have something called wrath (he said hopefully).

    LikeLike


  345. on June 4, 2009 at 10:57 am aoefe

    @default

    Ya, grabbing authority sounds kinda hot… And you have not come across as a simpering submissive in any way.

    Okay, I won’t be ‘too’ depressed. lol

    I have to go to real life now. Later gater.

    P.S. – i have no doubt chic is a very lovely in all ways woman at least from what i’ve seen.

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  346. on June 30, 2009 at 3:15 pm June 2009 Beta Of The Month « Roissy in DC

    […] Before we get to the reader submitted June candidates, it’s time to announce the May 2009 BOTM winner: […]

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  347. on September 8, 2009 at 3:45 pm Silver Fox

    Wendy Schwartz has no life

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