We all knew that weirdo loner kid from seventh grade. He was the strange kid who shuffled around the hallways with his head down, and always sat in the desk as far away from everyone else as possible. Sometimes bullies would pick on him, but mostly the other kids ignored him. He hardly ever spoke, and never rose his hand in class to offer an answer to a question. Nobody knew what he was thinking, and nobody cared, not even the teachers. But he nursed silent grudges, lots of them. Grudges against the popular kids he thought were always talking behind his back plotting his demise, against the cute girls who never acknowledged him, against authority figures who didn’t understand his deep deep pain. These grudges would simmer for months, building to a boil, until one day one of the cool kids accidentally bumped into him while he was standing at his locker, and he turned around in a rage, his eyes on fire, and rained blows down upon that kid, screaming obscenities at the top of his cracking voice. The outburst startled everyone who witnessed it. A teacher rushed up, dragging him away from his hapless victim lying on the floor.
Henry Louis Gates Junior is that weirdo loner kid.
the most stupid post on this blog yet, congrats.
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Why? I know nothing about the guy (apart from having a look on wikipedia…).
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Stu – He’s in the news because of an incident this week involving a disorderly conduct charge. Obama commented on it during his press conference.
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I know the cop in question. I posted about it on my blog and HS.
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Sorry feministX, but I won’t give you the satisfaction of a hit. Just post your thoughts here.
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Can’t a black man break into his own house in America? Apparently not. You got your white neighbors calling the police on you in case something suspicious is going on. The nerve. And then the President of the United States has to get your back. Otherwise the man would be locked up and facing an all-white jury surrounded by loud, oscllating fans and sweaty lawyers.
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“Sorry feministX, but I won’t give you the satisfaction of a hit. Just post your thoughts here.”
Whatever. I’d hit it.
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Yeah, I’ve gotta agree with Anon.
I’m a fan of this blog, but this is the worst post ever on here.
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Agreed. So, so, so, so much truth.
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So far, the police officer is Alpha of the Month candidate.
Refuses to apologize. And pretty much told 0bama to go fuck himself.
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I think Obama is baiting the right to take up this issue. It made no sense for him to address it after talking about health care for an hour. He obviously wanted it to be the final question.
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Should he have taken this silently with head bowed like a good house-negro?
If you look at his Wikipedia profile, this dude has accomplished a lot in life. He hasn’t been anything near an anti-social beta.
The policeman is not alpha. Douchebag does not equal alpha, even if he does agree with your right-wing politics.
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Good article on Slate today about this:
http://www.slate.com/id/2223472/
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I think Obama is baiting the right to take up this issue.
If that’s what he’s doing, he’s an idiot. This is pretty much another Duke Lacrosse thing where the white guy is 100% in the right and his accuser a liar.
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Gates is an idiot who should have shut his mouth and thanked the cop for checking in to make sure everything was okay. The cop was doing his job, and the arrogance of Gates and his following the cop out and being a dipshit about the whole is what got his ass justifiably arrested.
I voted for Obama and am a fan, but he’s wrong on this issue and the more information that comes out over this, the more it appears Gates is a self-aggrandizing idiot.
That’s said, he’s a brilliant scholar. But just as having a hot body doesn’t make you that interesting, have a good work ethic and smart mind doesn’t make you a good person whose ass needs to be kissed.
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http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1186764
The police have the tapes of the arrest. All the dispatches back and forth between Crowley and the dispatcher are on tape. I’d like to see these released.
Gates says he wasn’t yelling and screaming at the cop, but a photo shows him to appear to be yelling.
The tapes being released to the public could let everybody know pretty much what transpired so the public could determine in their own minds if anyone was out-of-line.
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Obama’s advisors are surely trying to muzzle him, but he can’t help himself. He spent too many years “community organizing” in Chicago to see anything other than race in a situation like this.
Fortunately, the policeman in question has actually *taught* classes on avoiding racial profiling, and has gotten commendations from his mostly black superiors. He was doing his job by the book and a jet-lagged man blew up in his face (according to Gates’s own story). Even Mickey Kaus isn’t defending Gates on this.
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Yeah, wait, Roissy, this guy is a *scholar* an academe in the hallowed Ivory Towers of Harvard where he teaches, uh…
Science, er no.
Math, er no.
Medicine, er no.
Law, er no.
Did he counsel Will Hunting back to mental health?, er no.
Does he gaze through a telescope at distant stars or under a microscope at our genes?, er no.
He is an afro-centrist scholar…which means he basically gets paid to yell about the police. And promote socialism.
Anyway, it’s disingenuous for the media to sanctify this huckster’s tenure.
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Crowley is a chivalrous sort of alpha. I was hesitant about taking my case forward but he pretty much took charge and made it happen.
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you’re right.
blacks are so “beta.”
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Of course, if you believe everything the officer has said, this post makes a world of sense. The only way we’d know what happened is if we were there. Is there video of the incident? Some of the pictures i’ve seen looked to me to be stills from a video.
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I’m puzzled by this post. Unless someone can come up with some fresh circumstantial details of the case, or I’ve missed something of the available information, I would like to know why Obama is wrong in saying:
I think it’s fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home…
What is Gates supposed to have done to justify getting arrested when there was already proof that they were in their own home?
Even setting aside the fact that the officer conducts a sensitivity-training course entitled “Racial Profiling”, I still don’t see how his judgment in arresting Gates (again, when there was already proof that they were in their own home) can be endorsed. (Which is not necessarily to say that an apology is owed.)
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The left tried to pull a Fuhrman on Crawley. Might not be so easy in this case.
By the way, isn’t it wild how Mark Fuhrman was about the only decent human benig in the whole OJ Simpson saga, and he was the only one who came out of it with a felony conviction?
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@Rob,
I think they’re saying that the arrest was made after Gates followed the officer into the yard making a ruckus, thus the disorderly conduct charge. I’m not an officer, so I don’t know exactly what that means, but i’d assume that’s what the charge stems from. If that’s the case, proving that he was in his own home is irrelevant.
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Should he have taken this silently with head bowed like a good house-negro?
Taken what silently? They got a call of a break-in and they asked to see ID. What part of that requires acting like an animal.
I also find it hilarious that despite the fact that this guy is a ‘distinguished’ Harvard professor, he still couldn’t help himself to dropping ‘your mama’. How crass.
It’s not about race, it’s about class. If the same thing happened to a white electrician from Southie, not only would he still have been arrested but the charges wouldn’t have been dropped before a court hearing.
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@ Rob
Rob, he wasn’t arrested for breaking in, he was arrested for disorderly conduct. I’m amazing at how many people have made the same disingenuous argument Rob has.
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Uh oh. Racial Holy Thread comin up….
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Gates is among the most prominent academics in the country. It’s beneath him to be vilifying some guy just doing his job.
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Anyone even remotely defending Gates or accusing Crowley is a moron.
The officer, Crowley, responded to a report of a burglarly, showed up, and question the man, Gates, in the home where the burglarly was suspected to be taking place. Once the man identified himself via ID (and the officer identified himself on request), the officer wanted to leave.
But Gates was sure it wasn’t a “report” of a robbery, but a police officer randomly demanding his ID for no reason other than harassment—based on what logic, only Gates and other paranoid delusionals have; Gates was even told of the reported burglarly. And Gates himself admitted to the police officer that the front door was broken into (whether this was by another burgaler or by Gates trying to get into his own home remains questionable).
So Gates flew off the handle, yelling at Crowley, threatening him. Crowley realized Gates was escalating, and knew he 1) had to get out of that house, because he was no longer lawful to be there and 2) needed to get out in open, where witnesses could support his story (because he realzied Gates was delusionally angry). Probably 3) as well: he didn’t know if Gates was loony enough to grab a household object and start swinging.
So Crowley went outside, and Gates pursued, escalating, yelling, and threatening. The other officers, campus police and regular police, saw the whole thing, and Gates would not stop. So Crowley arrested Gates—in full view of cops of various hues, including a black one—for disorderly conduct.
That’s right—Gates WAS NOT arrested for being in his own home, as some lefties claim. He was arrested for DISORDERLY CONDUCT—which he himself caused by behaving like Dale from King of the Hill for the boys in blue.
Crowley himself 1) teaches the anti-racial profiling classes of his force; 2) is fully supported by the black head of the Cambridge police; and 3) once gave life saving aid to black Boston Celtic great Reggie Lewis.
Basically, Gates picked the absolute wrong honky pig to lay his false charges of racism against; Gates should be thankful they came to his house to INVESTIGATE A CRIME AND PROTECT HIM instead of blaming Crowley for his crazy delusions.
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Rob…obfuscation is obvious. The guy acted like a lunatic.
Cogsys…he is not a prominent academic. He doesn’t study anything, he is a professional complainer. He lasted a month in law school. What books has he written? Who are his students? Who has benefited from his teachings?
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Rob, Nobama is wrong because the police officer did not act stupidly; he followed protocol when it comes to investigating a burglary, trying to de-escalate a witness, and arresting disorderly conduct.
NotMyPresident basically is saying that his friends should get special treatment from the cops and be allowed to prattle on insanely, threaten, and disturb the peace. Solely because they are NotMyPresident’s friends. And NotMyPresident took it further by personally attacking the cop and calling him stupid.
As he proves every day, NotMyPresident is the “stupid” one.
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3) once gave life saving aid to black Boston Celtic great Reggie Lewis.
Attempted. The guy didn’t make it.
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Gates is a businessman, pure and simple. He saw a white working class Irish cop and instantly saw dollar signs. Gates is playing this perfectly. Getting a chance to be the victim is worth far more than tenure, or even 20 books.
There’s an important principle at stake. A wealthy black professional victim and his chauffeur should be allowed to break into any one of their homes whether it’s Cambridge or Martha’s Vineyard.
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I would like to know why Obama is wrong in saying:
I think it’s fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry;
A policeman came to my door once when I accidentally set off the alarm when I was moving in. I showed him my ID, explained the situation, and he left. When I answered the door, he actually had his hand on his pistol, ready to draw it. I did not get angry, and I was glad he came to check things out.
Getting angry at the police for doing their job is wrong and stupid.
number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home…
They arrested him for being an asshole, not for being in his own house.
Obama was stupid to express an opinion at all about this situation. Is this really something the President should know about and inject himself into? But to express an ignorant opinion just made him look like a complete tool.
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All Gates had to do was ask the police officer to “Get off my Property”. And just keep repeating that mantra, “Get off my property.” That’s all that was needed after he provided identification… “Get off my property”.
But of course, he had what Aaron McGruder describes as a “nigga moment”.
Please see this video for reference:
How it affects an educated black man:
So yes Roissy, this isn’t about bullies, but more of an ailment of black american culture.
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Pupu wonders, in a situation like that, whether it is legal (and wiser) for a police to force the person into a mental institution instead of arresting him.
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Seeking Alpha,
That, duh, is what I want to see more information about — the alleged disorderly conduct…
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Gates is among the most prominent academics in the country
Yeah, among the most prominent race-hustling charlatans and intellectual frauds. What a surprise he should take advantage of an opportunity to manufacture a “racist outrage” when he personally benefits from the perception that racist outrages are common in AmeriKKKa!
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Rob
It’s not ‘duh’ because you were fixated on the ‘already showed ID’ issue. You didn’t ask ‘well was it really disorderly?’ and neither did the President.
Here is the police report.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html
I’m also guessing that if he wasn’t being disorderly, one of the 20 people outside would have said something to the news by now. They’ve been interviewing everyone that has anything to do with the case.
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Seeking Alpha, eh, that’s semantics. I would say he gave “life savign aid” to Lewis, except it was unsuccessful.
Lewis was my favorite basketball player at the time, one the last few gentlemen on the court/ shooter not bruiser types. Once he died, my interest in the sport died. And everything since then has reinforced my staying away.
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Stop being a troll Roissy.
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Maybe John McWhorter’s speculations about how the “framing” and “narrative” may have influenced Gates’ behavior would be useful here:
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2009/07/22/gates-is-right-and-we-re-not-post-racial-until-he-isn-t.aspx
Which, again, doesn’t necessarily mean the officer owes an apology. But it might mean Gates’ response is predictable enough that we should expect police departments to be sensitizing officers to the “framing” and “narrative” likely to come into play in such circumstances.
[editor: perhaps blacks should be sensitizing themselves to the framing and narrative likely to come into play when police officers have to respond to calls involving blacks who as a race commit crimes way out of proportion to their population share.]
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The only reason Obama weighed in on this is to distract us from the government takover of the healthcare industry. Looks like it worked, too.
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Rob
Either the disorderly conduct charge was legitimate or it wasn’t. I don’t know what the legal line is you have to cross for it to be applicable.
But that line is not different for people of different colors. If yelling at a police officer, after several warnings to stop, is illegal, then why would the historical relationship between cops and blacks effect the legitimacy of the sentence?
Like a lot of black studies or womens studies, the above paragraph you wrote says a lot of words without saying anything. This is really a very simple case and in no way should the ‘framing’ of the situation effect the legitimacy of the arrest.
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MMI, fuck, you know…you’re right. Now Obama will never be able to stop predatory tonsillectomies from occurring. I think his idiotic, uninformed statement on Gates actually saved his ass because his sales pitch for passing a yet-to-be-written-let-alone-read bill restructuring the American economy was so lame. He should be thankful he managed to wipe that slate clean.
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Seeking Alpha:
“But that line is not different for people of different colors.”
—-the problem is that most liberals actually do believe the lines are different; blacks should be held to a lower legal standard than non-blacks in most situations for them.
I was once in a movie theater in NYC where some black kids insisted on yelling back at the screen and chattering on the cell phone. I got so fed up that I told them to shut up. They got quiet until some SWPL told them, loudly, that it was fine for them to drown out the movie because “black culture” was about that, and they had different rules from everyone else.
So, they being 14 year old kids, started back up.
its the same logic of liberals that leads to hate crime legislation or quota systems: different rules for different races.
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I also think the post is a bit off. It’s not that Gates was an oddball, or bullied, or insecure – as others have said, it’s that he’s wrapped up in race-indentity politics,
[editor: race identity politics is the ultimate grudge.]
a prominent peddler of it, which includes the victimization narrative. that’s why he blew up. At this point in history, you’d think it would be possible to write, talk and lecture about this subject without a massive chip on the shoulder. Apparently not. Maybe the charged intellectual environment of Harvard invites and accentuates some of the preening and paranoia. (I recall Cornel West got into trouble there a few years ago, for reasons with a similar emotional underpinning, and ended up leaving the University.) The cop seems to have conducted himself perfectly, and I hope they release the tapes.
That said – groan. Another race thread. Over and out for today, folks.
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@lurker
As a black man, i’m calling you bitch-made for not tossing your popcorn at that assclown.
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on a completely separate note: last night I went to a party, and left with a girl to her hotel room. After a few rounds of stupendous sex late into the night, she revealed that she was a call girl, and that’s why she had the hotel room; (also, told me we had to leave the room at 5am, since she was high tailing out of town; no, not a line, she left with me with her stuff).
Question: should I be elated with fantastic sex for free from a girl that charges, or should I be in ever STD clinic in the city right now?
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megatron, be nice. I was younger and more beta; I even had a feminist girlfriend at the time. Journey of a thousand miles, you know….
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That’s partly right but worse.
Gates was clearly arrested because he was dissing the cop in a big way. We can await the details from a video tape or whatever about how much he was dissing the cop, or whatever.
The fact is that white guys, including respectable upper middle class white guys, who go out of their way to diss and an on duty cop who’s legitimately investigating a possible crime, will get arrested too, and charged with either dissorderly conduct and maybe also resisting arrest if he makes any protests while being arrested and you’ve really pissed him or her off. Legal purists can argue whether that should be, but that’s the way it is. Unless you’re a well known politician or something.
Gates is really trying to assert a special privlege here BECAUSE he’s black, likely to raise a paranoid ruckus about this, and therefore should be sufficiently kowtowed to so he won’t.
BTW, racial profiling like all other profiling is perfectly justified in investigating crime, so long as it’s combined with other evidence and is done in a sophisticated and accurate way. Blacks do commit murder at approximately 7x the rate, and other violent crime at 4x the rate of whites, and more than those multiples compared to Asians in this country. Their rape rate is IIRC similar to their murder rate, comparatively.
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This post is idiotic and I am now dumber for having read it.
I bet if you support Sgt. Crowley’s position, it’s 99% likely you’re white. I bet if you’re a black male, it’s 99% likely that you support Gates’s position.
As an Asian American male, I see the merits of both sides.
Black men have been profiled and disrespected their entire lives so I understand why Gates would have been excessively angry for having white policemen question his residence at that home. Did he have a chip on his shoulder? Probably, but given the history of race relations in this country, it’s understandable. Sgt. Crowley could’ve just said, “My name is Sgt. Crowley and my badge number is #X. This is clearly your home and there has been a misunderstanding” and then have taken off without agitating Gates any more. But of course, police officers have to adopt that macho, alpha attitude and not take guff from anyone.
White men, on the other hand, are sick and tired of the race card being played and for being scapegoated for all of society’s ills and history when they had no direct hand in perpetrating any of it. They believe that Sgt. Crowley was just doing his job and following procedures and it was Gates’s fault for being loud, boisterous and escalating tensions. Gates could’ve simply said, “Thanks for doing your job” and headed back inside.
As someone is neither black or white, I think:
1. Both sides should be empathetic and put themselves in the shoes of the other.
2. Gates probably acted excessively but given that he’s a black man in America, I understand why he may have a chip on his shoulder.
3. Crowley probably could have defused the situation by simply leaving but given that he’s a police officer, there’s probably pressure to accept attitude from no one.
Was race a factor in this situation? Yes and no.
Yes, in the sense that Gates’s identity as a black man influenced his behavior in response to white cops.
No, in the sense that Crowley is not a racist in the traditional sense of the word.
Yes, in the sense that NO ONE is colorblind and WE ALL incorporate race as one of many factors to assess as we go about our lives. Incorporating race does not have to be negative and can be neutral. White folks tend to bristle at any notion of race and want to believe that color does not exist. Blacks, on the other hand, are too sensitive and defensive about, to the point that whites are scared of talking about race honestly in front of blacks. Hopefully, we can get to a point in society where we meet in the middle.
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Gates and by extension Obama are going to lose this one big-time. The clue is that the people who were there as witnesses or who have reviewed the tapes are either unapologetically backing the cop or are discretely silent. This state of affairs would be inconceivable if the facts were even slightly on the side of Gates.
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maurice–
Yuup. Just so.
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deTocqueville, you’re a tool. Crowley identified himself 3 times. You’re also an apologist for antisocial behavior only based on race.
Go back to commune and hug somebody, hippie.
Read my post above—Crowley is the last white police officer Gates could ahve laid this on. But you’re probably too stupid to understand that.
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I blogged about this incident and “institutional racism”.
Institutional Racism: The Chimera of African Studies Depts
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Rum–
Yes. But.
The press will then immediately bury it.
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Well, after reading the “narrative” linked above (by Seeking Alpha), I concede it does indeed appear that it would be wrongly concessive for the officer to apologize, and the decision to arrest was within reasonable discretionary limits. At the same time, I still think, in light of the “framing” and “narrative” issues raised by McWhorter, that Roissy’s post is too reductive.
[editor: perhaps blacks should be sensitizing themselves to the framing and narrative likely to come into play when police officers have to respond to calls involving blacks who as a race commit crimes way out of proportion to their population share.]
Agreed. (Especially after having once lived in crime-ridden, downtown Savannah, Georgia, where even living across from the police department didn’t spare me.) Maybe it’s expecting too much to think that the Harvard ID should have deactivated the framing and narrative in question.
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It is not really a black/white thing as much as an activist black/ blue collar white thing.
Pretty much every white person in the Ivy League, Hollywood, or otherwise SWPL will take Gates’ side. On the other hand, Black people who are sick of this whole greivance industry because it makes them all look like whiners and the ‘cry wolf’ element hurts people who really are victims of racist police will take the officer’s side.
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@doug1
I don’t think racial profiling is ever justified in investigating a crime “combined with other evidence.” I don’t think the person’s race should be the reason for harassment or their looking “suspicious.” Just because a black man happens to be in a certain neighborhood isn’t grounds to pull him over; however, i would agree that a black man in a backward cap, low slung jeans standing beside a donk in certain areas would be grounds for questioning, I’d just hope that a mulleted white man driving an IROC through the same neighborhood would get the same attention.
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deTocqueville
I see all your points. Could have made them all myself, though you made them very well.
However, unless nobody is going to get arrested for getting all up in a cops face and dissing him. Gates should have been arrested.
He’s in effect asking for special handling because 1) he’s black and pissed, and 2) obviously a respectable member of society with status.
A white guy with the same status who made equally taunting and dissing remarks would also have gotten arrested. In fact may have been more likely to have been since the cop wouldn’t then worry about a political backlash in a place like the People’s Republic of Cambridge, Mass., or from the Obama adoring national media.
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One time, I was driving across the country, west to east. It was the middle of the winter. I had just crossed the Arkansas state line when a state trooper pulled me over.
I had nothing wrong with my car, no broken tail lights, nothing.
The trooper told me that they were stopping all cars with out of state plates, and checking them for drugs. They asked me if they could search my vehicle, I said sure. They told me they wanted to bring a drug dog by for a sniff, I said sure. I waited for an hour, till they told me that the drug dog was called to another location, and I was free to go. I drove away and vowed never to go through Arkansas again, if I could help it.
The only reason they didn’t tear my car apart and leave me standing by a pile of junk in the snow was that I didn’t lose my cool.
And I’m white, btw.
The moral of this story: The police do not exist to protect individual rights, they exist to enforce the laws and protect THE STATE (as affirmed by the supreme court.)
So stop all the fucking bitching. The police don’t owe you shit. Not courtesy, not politeness, nothing.
They are not your protectors. They are not your friends.
That’s why they miranda you when you get arrested. To inform you of the very few rights you have: The right to shut the fuck up, and the right to an attorney. That’s it. No right to demand an explaination, no right to politeness, no right to argue your case in the street, or yell at the cops.
The only people who think that the police have to play by some unwritten rulebook of civility are people who have very little contact with the police.
This is not a racial thing. SWPL white folks try to pull this same shit, and end up getting arrested. They can’t claim racism, like Gates can, but they would if they could.
Gates is a moron. If he wasn’t a friend of Obama, he’d still be in jail.
Or he’d be dead.
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mandy-
It’s a political and PC thing not a class thing per se.
I’m thoroughly SWPL in class, upbringing and education. Not in politics or fawning (or scared) PC.
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OneSTDV
I just LOVE “institutional racism”. It may be my single favorite PC construct.
“Institutional racism” as defined by doug1:
That leftist black box by which all embarrassing continuing differences in performance by various underperforming racial or ethnic groups, which cannot any longer be easily explained by obvious and widespread negative discrimination or other overt actions against them, can nonetheless be attributed NOT to any genetic or cultural traits which these groups themselves possess (that would be “blaming the victim” *shudder*, which we all know is too horrid a violation of cultural Marxism otherwise known as PC to contemplate for one second except to condemn unreservedly), BUT INSTEAD to an endlessly vague and elusive concept who’s sole solid characteristic is that it’s entirely the fault and somehow within the control of the Euro white majority. (Who after all crafted those “institutions”? That much seems unassailable. Hence the phrase.)
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deTocqueville, I am not white either, and I do not understand the basis for believing this case has anything to do with racial profiling. What is the evidence for believing that a white man who acted this way would not have received the same treatment?
Perhaps it is wrong for the cops to arrest an angry man in his own house, but I doubt a belligerent white man would be less likely to get arrested.
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I call Bullshit.
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deTocqueville-“Black men have been profiled and disrespected their entire lives”
Nice blanket generalization.
Don’t bother to provide any proof.
Just add your voice to the chorus of bullshit.
You defeat your own argument by tossing out statements like that and this:
“Both sides should be empathetic and put themselves in the shoes of the other.”
Yeah, the police need to be empathetic. I guess that’s why they carry firearms, so that they can ’empathize’ with the people they meet.
Another fucking moron.
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megatron Jones
Oh yes you do.
You said so yourself further on:
If it’s legitimate for cops to focus more on men than women (while not excluding women as possible suspects) for certain sorts of crimes, due to the ratio of who statistically commits them, the same thing should apply to racial profiling.
However simply being black shouldn’t be enough to give rise to questioning in the vast majority of cases.
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PA
They may be small in number, but they exist. The media won’t give them the time of day (some have complained for example that CNN interviewed them for Black In America but wouldn’t write about their success stories or anything that doesn’t portray blacks as perpetual victims.)
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So, Gates has been profiled his entire life? Please. He’s lived in college towns since the mid-80’s. Hardly high crime areas. Profiling allegedly occurs in high crime areas which also happen to be, uh, areas that have other statistical oddities…like high crime.
This lunatic obviously failed the Chris Rock steps to not getting your ass beat by the police.
He also decided to escalate a routine interaction with the police into “a symbol of all racism everywhere at all times.”
Upon being informed that the cop was responding to a break-in report, he said “why because I am a black man in America?” So, he’s pissed at racial issue and at America. Just another cancer on America metastasizing in the Ivy League.
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@doug1 — Good points. I agree that a white guy who made equally taunting remarks would likely have gotten arrested as well. Still, Crowley could’ve de-escalated the tension if understood the racial implications involved (which he should have since he taught racial profiling courses).
@lurker — You’re a twat and you provide no value whatsoever. You’re telling me that Crowley, surrounded by other police officers, couldn’t leave the front yard because he was prevented by a 58-year-old man who walks with a cane? I have no doubt that Gates was probably being loud and offensive but it’s entirely within Crowley’s discretion whether to arrest him — Gates was certainly a threat to no one. That Crowley chose to stay and engage in a tit-for-tat with Gates and then escalate the tension with an arrest was the “stupid” act that Obama was referring to.
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A white guy with the same status who made equally taunting and dissing remarks would also have gotten arrested. (doug1)
But what equivalent is there to the complaint of being a victim of racism for a white guy to belligerently spout off when dealing with a cop? I think of the accusation, when it appears as a verbal gesture, as typically defensive. And while the officer apparently exercised reasonable discretion in deciding to arrest, I nevertheless can’t help but wonder a bit why he didn’t instead simply leave. I guess the audio may give a more vivid sense of Gates’ ‘disorderliness’.
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Mandy, now that you explained your comment more, I agree with you.
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RTFM, people, Crowley walked outside and Gates followed him, still being an asshat. Gates was warned he was being disorderly and faced arrest for being outside and making a scene.
Taking Gate’s “side” (whatever his excuse is right now) shows an irrational fear of the popo. Yeah, cops can abuse their discretion and you can find yourself charged with contempt of cop, but in this case Gates was wrong.
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deTocqueville, being the stupid hippie he is:
” You’re telling me that Crowley, surrounded by other police officers, couldn’t leave the front yard because he was prevented by a 58-year-old man who walks with a cane?”
–Straw man, bullshit artist. Gates never physically prevented Crowley from leaving, nor is that an issue. Make up something else, boy.
“I have no doubt that Gates was probably being loud and offensive but it’s entirely within Crowley’s discretion whether to arrest him”
—and he did not abuse his discretion.
“Gates was certainly a threat to no one.”
—listen up, shit-for-brains—-disorderly conduct isn’t about being threatening, its about being disorderly. Certainly threats, verbal or physical, can be disorderly, which is what a maniacally shouting Grandpa Simpson like Gates was. But you probably believe black people should be allowed different rules, you SWPLer.
“That Crowley chose to stay and engage in a tit-for-tat with Gates and then escalate the tension with an arrest was the “stupid” act that Obama was referring to.”
—-WRONG. Crowley did not “engage in a tit for tat” and no one who witnessed it says he did. Crowley tried to 1) get information from Gates; and then 2) Calm gates down. Gates was screaming ridiculous accusations and obscenities at Crowley.
You liberal bitch, come back when you have facts, not some made up story, on your side.
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Rob, you moron:
“But what equivalent is there to the complaint of being a victim of racism for a white guy to belligerently spout off when dealing with a cop?”
—calling a non-white cop racist. But then again, you need something called “facts” on your side, not “delusion,” to claim racism. Gates did not have any facts, he’s a paranoid delusional.
“I think of the accusation, when it appears as a verbal gesture, as typically defensive.”.
—-lol. or paranoid and attacking
“And while the officer apparently exercised reasonable discretion in deciding to arrest, I nevertheless can’t help but wonder a bit why he didn’t instead simply leave.”
—because, idiot, there was a loud, verbally abusive, crazy Grandpa Simpson on his front porch yelling nonsense and causing a ruckus when the officer was actually doing work on behalf of Grandpa Simpson.
“I guess the audio may give a more vivid sense of Gates’ ‘disorderliness’.”
—The known facts alone say what a nut Gates is.
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doug
I see, I think misused SWPL (single white politically liberal vs stuff white people like = middle class, educated people)
Pa, you may find this interesting:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-303137
I don’t agree with all of it but mostly she is good. She says Obama was irresponsible to say the police acted “stupidly” because “The last thing the black community needs now is less trust of police officers.”
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Sorry, I was a little loose with my words.
I didn’t mean that all black men have been disrespected every single second of their lives. I should have said, to be more exact, “Many black men have had the experience of being disrespected or profiled on account of their race”.
Regarding empathy, I didn’t mean that police officers should be more empathetic — that’s ridiculous. I meant that we readers and society members should be empathetic to the viewpoints of others. Unless you believe that you are categorically correct all the time, which is impossible.
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The incident shows the temper tantrums of a privileged man.
As a middle class white, who has to pay market price for my housing, and use my own money and time for maintenance of “jammed doors”, I would never dare to yell at a cop.
50 percent of cops are power hungry bastards, the other 50 percent are sadists.
If a cop is about to leave, my reaction is: “good riddance”! I would never ever do anything to prolong an interaction with a police officer. If they lie to you to entrap you, fine. If you lie to them, it is typically a felony. Given this asymmetry, it is irrational to interact with cops if avoidable. If I observed a crime, I would probably “close my eyes”, as I have no trust that the admission of being in the proximity does not make me a suspect.
Since cops can shoot suspects driving away from a traffic stop and claim their life was in danger, even if they are standing way to the side of the vehicle, and be cleared of wrongdoing, it means any cop is allowed to use disproportional lethal force to take out his frustrations when presented with infractions on his authority.
Cops can make up bogus charges like “Resisting arrest as the ONLY charge”, and the docile press will report the incident without noticing the obvious irony!
I have no respect for Gates, and his behavior either shows privilege or low intelligence, as police are generally allowed by the pet of Gates (the press) to make bogus arrest charges whenever someone don’t follow their orders.
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deTocqueville:
“Many black men have had the experience of being disrespected or profiled on account of their race”.
—proof?
” I meant that we readers and society members should be empathetic to the viewpoints of others”
—such as the viewpoint that a black man can accuse anyone of racism for ever doing their job correctly? Go blow a yak, son.
“Unless you believe that you are categorically correct all the time, which is impossible.”
—SWPLers like you always do.
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When you interact with the police, on any level, you would be wise to regard them as you would a dangerous animal:
Don’t provoke them, and minimize your contact.
If you don’t, you’re going to get bitten.
Or eaten.
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Realist, another paranoid delusional:
“50 percent of cops are power hungry bastards, the other 50 percent are sadists.”
–and 100% of posters named realists are small-minded simpletons who make up personality tests for all police officers everywhere.
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“Many black men have had the experience of being disrespected ”
Everyone has been disrespected for something. If it wasn’t race it would otherwise be their (select as many as apply) looks, weight, height, age, status,class, job, personality, family ….
They need to just get over it.
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Oh I almost forgot…….Buttplug!
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I find it troubling that so many purported conservatives are endorsing the power of the state to arrest a man on his own porch for “being an asshole.”
Gates may be a oversensitive jerk, a blowhard and a self-promoter, but none of those things are against the law.
Police officers aren’t paid to teach us manners. They’re paid — by us — to enforce the law. Once it was clear Gates wasn’t breaking it, Crowley should have sucked it up and left.
If the thought of a cop arresting a man on his porch for having a crappy attitude doesn’t bother you, this whole “government by the people, for the people” thing might not be your bag.
I hear North Korea is nice.
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“The trooper told me that they were stopping all cars with out of state plates, and checking them for drugs. They asked me if they could search my vehicle, I said sure.”
If you didn’t give the cops permission to search your car you would be on your way about 59 minutes sooner.
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@Realist
Exactly right.
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Why do people keep saying that he was arrested in his house. Cunning nobama slipped that meme into the national consciousness, and it obviously took.
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Cato, yawn. Have you even bothered to read the reports? Crowley was trying to leave, Gates was demanding ID (Crowley ahd already ID’d himself) and Gates was escalating in public, and threatening the officer. He broke the law of being disorderly, the same law you break if you’re ont he corner swearing at the top of your lungs or threatening people across the street.
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lurker wrote: “–and 100% of posters named realists are small-minded simpletons who make up personality tests for all police officers everywhere.”
You got me there. I don’t have personality analyses of policemen.
What do you think is the prevailing personality type of a cop?
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@doug1
the fact that the person is black or white shouldn’t matter, the suspicion is based more on the fact that they’re wearing dress typically associated with individuals involved in criminal activity. A white/asian/latino dressed in the same outfit and driving the same shitty car in a neighborhood that doesn’t have knee high grass and a honda on blocks in every third yard probably should be paid closer attention to. the fact that the person is black or white should not be part of the equation. In other words, a nigga in a ski mask should be equally as suspicious as a honky in a ski mask.
A black man in a dress shirt and slacks driving through the neighborhood, not parked as the man in my example was, and not driving a 74 impala with dents in the side shouldn’t be pulled over simply because he’s black just because black people in the ghetto happen to rob, steal, and kill at a higher rate than all other races, regardless of social/financial status.
I add that because, when people quote these statistics, they’re usually not broken down across those lines and simply used to say every black person is potentially a murderous animal. I know poor people commit more crime, and i’d find it hard to believe that poor black people participate in criminal activity at that much higher of a rate than poor whites in proportion to white and black poverty rates relative to percentage of population. I’d concede the point if i found evidence to the contrary. However, i don’t go searching for this type of stuff, I’ll have to do so on my own time.
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@ Cato
Agreed in theory but the problem is we really don’t know what it takes to get a ‘disorderly’ charge.
Now you could be right, what Gates did was legal (if rude), and he shouldn’t have been arrested.
But if that conduct is grounds for a disorderly arrest… well I wouldn’t like the law, but that’s the legislatures fault, not the cops.
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Realist: “What do you think is the prevailing personality type of a cop?”
—I don’t speculate on the psychological profile of a vast group of people. Same reason I don’t believe all black people are criminals with no respect for the law, but I know that crime in the black community is rampant.
Keep trying there.
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Cato, “disorderly conduct” is a law that is on the books, and if you act like a shouting asshole on your porch then the police are, in fact, enforcing the law when they arrest you.
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@lurker:
“Many black men have had the experience of being disrespected or profiled on account of their race”.
—proof?
— My proof is this attitudinal survey of black male experiences in my back pocket — of course I don’t have proof in the traditional empirical sense but this statement is one that any black man would agree with, let’s leave it that.
” I meant that we readers and society members should be empathetic to the viewpoints of others”
—such as the viewpoint that a black man can accuse anyone of racism for ever doing their job correctly? Go blow a yak, son.
— If you read my original post, you would have noticed that I was equally empathetic of the white point of view and critical of blacks for being too sensitive, but of course, you’re too busy sucking your own popsicle.
“Unless you believe that you are categorically correct all the time, which is impossible.”
—SWPLers like you always do.
— Again, in my original post, I conceded arguments on both sides and in a later post, qualified a blanket statement I made. You, on the other hand, have never demonstrated the ability to understand the other person’s argument. Which fanatical Glenn Beck types like you never do.
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ok, how about this.
1. How much abuse should a cop take before you would expect the abusive person to be arrested?
2. Shouldn’t the President at least know what the fuck he is talking about before he publicly chastises the law enforcement community. Otherwise, a no comment would be the smart thing to do.
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Seeking Alpha writes:
“It’s not about race..”
Wrong. Still asleep at the wheel. Terrific.
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Rob,
The John McWhorter’s article got the following comment from a right of center African American guy I correspond with:
>I read the article. It was interesting, but not especially
>persuasive. At least not in the sense McWhorter intended
>it to persuade.
>
>Here’s a key sentence: “The relationship between black
>men and police forces is, in fact, the main thing keeping
>America from becoming ‘post-racial’ in any sense.”
>
>That’s true enough, but McWhorter doesn’t follow it up
>sufficiently. If he did, he would focus on two related facts:
>
>(1) the disproportionate tendency of black men to commit
>crimes, and
>
>(2) the knee-jerk reaction of many blacks to blame their
>own confrontations with police on police racism.
>
>As a result of (1), police approach black men with a higher
>degree of wariness than normal.
>
>As a result of (2), the black man — whether innocent or
>guilty, but especially if guilty — is more likely to lose his
>temper during the confrontation than a man of any other
>race.
>
>Not many cops study Shakespeare, but after a few
>months on the job, all of them understand in their bones
>the truth of the phrase “Methinks the lady doth protest
>too much.”
>
>I’ve been pulled over by cops twice (both times for driving
>with expired plates). In both cases, the cop kept his hand
>on his gun as he approached my car, and was quite
>insistent that I keep my hands where he could see them.
>
>It didn’t bother me.
>
>I wasn’t all, “Oh, he thinks I’m some kind of redneck
>who’s just waiting for a chance to kill a cop;” rather, I
>was, “God, I’d hate to have the kind of job where
>somebody you approach just might pull out a gun and
>start firing.”
>
>We’re not going to be post-racial until black men as a
>group learn to
>(a) stop breaking the law so often, and
>
>(b) stop losing their tempers during encounters with the
>police.
I completely understand where he is coming from and why.
As a somewhat hispanic looking man, pulled over late at night driving a 1979 Chrysler Newport in 1999 I was pulled over at a single officer, interstate, drug check point in Houston.
The vehicle and the time of day it was travelling fit the “Drug Mule” transport profile so I was stopped and seached.
No drugs, no priors, and no static from me and I was free to go in 20 minutes.
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deTocqueville
He could have. It probably occurred to him.
He probably decided he didn’t want to. But instead wanted to teach Gates the lesson that he isn’t specially privileged because he’s upper middle class and black and able to raise a ruckus. It wouldn’t surprise me if Crowley was specifically taking a stand on that issue.
BTW, I used to think that cops shouldn’t be able to arrest people on disorderly charges for sufficiently dissing them and continuing to do that. I no longer do. They need to have a certain amount of fear/respect surrounding them. After all, they’re few. (Though networked radio cars can quickly call in many, often enough.) No they shouldn’t be able to beat on someone for dissing them without more. (That happens but shouldn’t.) But arrest him on disorderly, esp. if they then drop it? Yeah.
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Andrew E
On a complex issue, some people prefer to express themselves clearly and make a cogent argument.
Other people think they can substitute snark for reason and no one will notice the difference.
Jon Stewart might get away with it, but you don’t have your own TV show.
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Cato-“I find it troubling that so many purported conservatives are endorsing the power of the state to arrest a man on his own porch for “being an asshole.””
I’m NOT endorsing it. I hate it.
But that IS reality.
To deny reality makes it impossible to change it.
The police DID arrest him. He’s only getting out of it because of his Obama connection.
Right or wrong, the police always win. Gates, may not be charged, but he’ll never get the night he spent in jail back.
Ever.
sfer-“If you didn’t give the cops permission to search your car you would be on your way about 59 minutes sooner.”
The fact that you believe that tells me that you have never been stopped as I have.
If I had refused, they would have arrested me, while they obtained a search warrant. (probable cause: out of state car, refused a routine search request) They would tow my car to a shop where it would have been dismantled, piece by piece. They would have found nothing, and it probably would have only taken 6 months or so to get them to pay for my wrecked car. I’m sure I could have gotten bailed out within 2 or 3 days.
What you don’t seem to grasp, is that driving a car on a public highway is NOT a right. That’s why you must get a license from the state, to do it. That means the state can stop and search any vehicle they see fit. You can’t refuse, without consequences.
That’s why DWI ‘checkpoints’ are legal, stupid.
By all means, the next time the cops ‘ask you for permission’ to search your vehicle, tell them no.
See what happens.
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mandy writes:
“On the other hand, Black people who are sick of this whole greivance industry because it makes them all look like whiners and the ‘cry wolf’ element hurts people who really are victims of racist police will take the officer’s side.”
Mandy, exactly when will this virtuous side (which does exist) of the black community gain political expression? It won’t, unless whites force it to so it’s pointless and wrong to talk about it as if it were a movement with independent energy and influence.
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An Experienced Father:
Thanks for sharing the response to the McWhorter piece. I agree, but would only add that it’s not just “a result of (2), the black man — whether innocent or guilty, but especially if guilty — is more likely to lose his temper during the confrontation than a man of any other race”, but that the higher than normal degree of wariness (itself indeed caused by the disproportionate tendency of black men to commit
crimes) contributes to it (the greater likelihood of losing one’s temper), too. There’s a circularity to the causation.
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deTocqueville, the stupid hippie:
“of course I don’t have proof in the traditional empirical sense”
—liberals never do.
“but this statement is one that any black man would agree with, let’s leave it that.”
—anecdotal, paranoid evidence, reinforced by race hustlers and SWPL-entertainment, does not proof make.
“If you read my original post, you would have noticed that I was equally empathetic of the white point of view and critical of blacks for being too sensitive,”
—lol. “I gave both sides my empathy, I’m ok!” Wrong son. There are facts. Having empathy for a paranoid delusional’s position only makes you a paranoid delusional sympathizer.
“I conceded arguments on both sides”
—No, you tried to equate unproven race-baiting paranoia with fact. You’re a moron.
“and in a later post, qualified a blanket statement I made.”
—iot’s called back-tracking, and I called you on it, because you still tried to blather on with your stupid “white people and black people have equal grievances here, no one is right” pathetic nonsense.
“You, on the other hand, have never demonstrated the ability to understand the other person’s argument. ”
–to a SWPLer moron like this cat, “understanding” and argument means “don’t show me the facts that prove my argument is complete and utter nonsense.”
Game. Set. Match. Son.
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p.s. ever notice that when a SWPLer/liberal loses an argument so soundly that not even their illogic can save them, they say “well let’s agree to disagree” or “let’s just leave it at that?”
Exhibit A: deTocqueville
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Seeking Alpha,
Some people, especially radically reductionist Randian materialists, prefer to indulge in the complexities of certain issues in order to obscure the larger wholes and themes that don’t fit their ideology. Gates is black and Crowley is white. Gates screamed racism of whites against blacks from the beginning. Gates is not alone, this dynamic has a long and rich history in America. Gates has made a career out of it. This incident is defined completely through the prism of race relations in America.
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Doug1,
The first thing Obama has to do is stop digging…but he can’t because being “authentically black” is more important to him than being America’s President.
This will have consequences.
IMO race relations are a major loser here as President Obama — between this acton and that of AG Holder with covering up Black Panther intimidation of white voters — just said that all the power of government will come down on white men when blacks are in power.
Worse, his supporters just made sure white women aren’t safe either.
See:
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/07/that-racist-cop-is-real-person-sgt.html
“And now we know the name of the woman who called the police. I suppose her life will be ruined now, as she’ll be portrayed as a racist. Lesson learned: If you think you’re witnessing a crime, mind your own business. Somewhere, the new Kitty Genovese walks into the alleyway.”
We can longer dream of entering a “Post-racial America.”
We are in fact entering a “Post-Martin Luther King America.”
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Cato–
I alluded to these concerns and issues in my first comment on this thread and most since.
Your “on his porch” thing is misleading. The cop had a legitimate reason for being there and question Gates. A neighbor had suspected burglary. So the cop SHOULD have been questioning him. Your asking for the cop to take what seems to have been a great deal of heated, yelled, and sustained verbal abuse, while he was trying to question him.
I find it interesting that if liberals and the media wish the law to written and/or interpreted in that way, they’re really on interested in pursing the issue if it involves a victim class. Ideally a respected black man.
If you are truly concerned about the law overstepping personal liberty boundaries look into what an even temporarily angry woman can do without any proof whatsoever except her say so to a man she’s living with under current federal domestic violence laws. Ex parte order of protection and thrown out of his house for 90 days or more and not allowed even telephone contact, and forced to pay a substantial fine by way of legal fees due to several required court appearances in which they’ll try to get him to take feminist reeducation classes in return for an finally expunged case, with zero evidence in a case that will eventually finally have to be dropped. Or maybe it won’t be, with more legal fees=feminist fines.
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Cato
On Libertarian grounds, you may be right. Once all the evidence comes in, we’ll know for sure.
But AJ is also right that Gates could have prevented this by acting like a decent person and not a crazy maniac. But Gates profits from racial grievances so it suits him to be arrested for being “at home while black.”
Everyone not wanting to get arrested should deal carefully with officers of the law.
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@lurker
From the accounts I read, Gates was not threatening the officer’s person, but rather threatening to contact his superior. This may have been obnoxious, but it seems a stretch to suggest that it was criminal.
I’m not a lawyer or a police officer, but it strikes me that “disorderly conduct” is one of those catchall charges that can be used to apply to virtually any obnoxious behavior. In the hands of an overzealous officer such a statute can easily been used in a manner that is unconstitutional.
In this case, people on the left seem to be missing the point by making this a racial issue, and people on the right seem to be missing the point by blindly defending “law and order” and ignoring the larger matters of personal freedom and abusive governmental power.
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@An experienced father
the person in your quote refers to himself as a redneck. Are you sure this is an african american friend of yours?
I do agree with the point that black people could be less combative and exhibit less indignation when confronted by police. It’s not going to make the situation any better.
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Cato, Gates was also, allegedly, yelling things about his mother (insert “dozen’s” joke here) screaming obscenities and calling him names like racist. If a man came up to you yelling obscenities, calling you names, and making cracks about your family, it would be “threatening” behavior. A person doesn’t have to threaten you directly to be acting threateningly.
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Andrew E
This is why your six word, dismissive post was bad. You didn’t make yourself clear.
Of course it’s about race, because Gates made it about race. My point was that the officer treated him differently (more gently) because of his class, not his race.
radically reductionist Randian materialists isn’t me.
My description of your behavior – substituting snark for reason – is still accurate, and is what led to the miscommunication.
I mean, it’s blog comments, so who cares. You don’t have to make sense or have a good reason for what you say. But I try to keep my own standards above the medium.
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@lurker — Listen, son. It’s common knowledge for minorities that many of them have experienced being profiled, son. I’m not about to look up a study but here’s an article that at least confirms this perception, son.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/us/24blacks.html?hp
I’m not agreeing to disagree, son. I disagree with you 100%, son. I’m not a crying, Glenn Beck blowhard like you nor am I a sniveling PC, SWPLer, son. I hate uncompromising idiots on both sides, son.
Game. Set. Match. Championship. Son.
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@An experienced father
you’re right. Obama’s remarks will cause more harm to race relations in this country. All he’s done is justify proper racist’s fears of a black take over that have been brewing since he began his campaign and further alienate moderate whites.
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DeT, profiling is just an excuse for people being arrested in high crime areas. This website takes down your NYT article, albeit indirectly and quite indelicately.
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2009/07/28-driving-while-black.html
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I love this post. I am fascinated by all the different reactions to this story.
Pretty much every white person in the Ivy League, Hollywood, or otherwise SWPL will take Gates’ side. On the other hand, Black people who are sick of this whole greivance industry because it makes them all look like whiners and the ‘cry wolf’ element hurts people who really are victims of racist police will take the officer’s side.
This has not been my experience in discussions so far.
Also, if the suspect is black and there is black man at the scene of the crime, “racial profiling” = “good detective work”. Ditto for a blond man, a bearded man, a tall woman, etc.
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Seeking Alpha,
Look, you and I have been through this before and I have no desire to do it again. But as someone who thinks race is unimportant when it comes to American immigration policy, you don’t seem able to draw out the larger lessons we need to take from this incident, hence my label of reducionist. The fact is that most blacks feel the way Gates does and certainly the political expression of the black community agrees. What do you propose we do about it given that Gates is so obviously wrong about this incident and America?
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deTocqueville, the stupid hippie:
“It’s common knowledge for minorities that many of them have experienced being profiled”
–no, you simpleton, its the paranoid belief by minorities, backed up by jackass SWPLers like you and race hustlers like Al Sharpton, that make them THINK they have been racially profiled.
“I’m not about to look up a study”
–because there are none. there are no studies that show Driving while Black occurs anywhere but in black people’s minds.
“but here’s an article that at least confirms this perception”
—yes, the article is a classic piece of NYT-SWPL fluff: no facts or numbers, all anecdotal evidence, all based on their own biased ideas that they MUST be being racially profiled.
“I’m not agreeing to disagree.I disagree with you 100%.”
—lol. Now the little bitch disagrees with facts. Classic.
“nor am I a sniveling PC, SWPLer”
—lol. You try to claim that “both sides have valid argument” when one side bases theirs on facts and one on their own “feeling” of the issue. you are a classic SWPLer, son.
“I hate uncompromising idiots on both sides”
–translation: I hate when people use facts to rip my idiocy apart!
QED, son.
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It’s not profiling. The guy was responding to a reported burglary.
If anyone profiled, it’s the idiot president who stuck his ignorant big ears into the fray by sticking to the trite analysis that the police are obviously racist and stupid.
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anonnaC — there’s validity to your point. I wouldn’t say that the website “takes down” the NYT article but it adds the counterargument that oftentimes, blacks are more likely to commit crimes and therefore likelier subjects for profiling. And I am IN SUPPORT of smart, racial profiling.
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racial profiling is a misnomer. It should be “look at how a guy dresses and acts. He if acts and dresses like a rapper ina video, he’s probably an anti-social ass and needs to be watched closely.”
But hey,. why use logic when liberals can once again bring up race?
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Andrew
who thinks race is unimportant when it comes to American immigration policy
I don’t think it’s unimportant. I’m certainly not blind to the effects of race. I think there is a balance of cultural and economic issues at stake with immigration and that it’s not clear which immigration policy would do best to balance them. It’s an issue that needs less hyperbole and further study and consideration.
The fact is that most blacks feel the way Gates does and certainly the political expression of the black community agrees. What do you propose we do about it given that Gates is so obviously wrong about this incident and America?
Ignore them. I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem like Gates is ‘winning’ this fight. In fact, I’d bet if you put it to a poll, he’s losing.
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The problem is, Seeking, that the race hustlers often win these incredibly illogical fights. They actually succeeded in making the Jena 6 monsters into “martyrs” when they gang attacked a white kid until he was unconscious.
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ITA lurker. They are winning.
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The problem is, Seeking, that the race hustlers often win these incredibly illogical fights. They actually succeeded in making the Jena 6 monsters into “martyrs” when they gang attacked a white kid until he was unconscious.
No doubt lurker, that’s true. So what are our options:
Fight like the Soviets. Trade territory for time. Give into them here or there and eventually they’ll stop complaining.
Grade: Fail. This is a ‘give an inch, take a mile’ situation.
Stand your ground and fight to the last. Engage on all fronts. Meet their passion with twice your own.
Grade: Valiant fail. Your true believers will agree with you but as often as not, with the media as liberal as it is, you’ll be written off without being listened to.
Engage only as necessary. Meet passion with calm. Mostly just ignore them
Grade: Pass. These people are usually not very bright. That’s why they make up their own subjects instead of studying real ones. The more you let them talk, the more obvious their logical fallacies will become, and the nonsense of their opinions will be revealed. I think.
Anyway, that’s my answer.
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mandy, ITA? Not sure what it means.
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ITA = I totally agree
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Thank you. And thank you.
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This is how liberals are moving to frame and treat this issue, though most will mix in more of an undercurrent of racism “playing a role” as well:
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/07/24/even-if-henry-louis-gates-arresting-officer-is-right-he-was-wrong.html
Note how this is setting up a frame where Crowley will really take a hit if further facts show anything less than extreme provocation on Gates part.
Fundamentally though this is thoroughly disingenuous. The media would NEVER get upset at a while male professor acting similarly unless conceivably the insults he was hurling were leftist political in nature – but even so vastly less.
What Crowley wasn’t having was treating Gates with special privilege because he was an upper middle class black who was threatening to raise a racial stink.
That make Crowley a stand up guy.
Those liberals who are getting upset now about over broad disorderly conduct laws or their application are being thoroughly disingenuous.
Look to domestic violence laws way before that.
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””””””on July 24, 2009 at 11:22 am PA
So far, the police officer is Alpha of the Month candidate.
Refuses to apologize. And pretty much told 0bama to go fuck himself.””””””
Boooyaaaaa bitches!!!!!!
Exactly you don’t have to lick nuts all the time.
You can be a man.
This was some good shit.
Once people aren’t afraid of pc because they know the truth. Yea good shit.
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Quite the thread here. Anyone who hasn’t clued in yet that Gates is a self-important blowhard with racism on the brain – hello? I’ve seen examples of real police malfeasance close-up, but this sure ain’t it. The arresting officer’s story seems to have fully checked out and, as someone pointed out already, witnesses on Gates’s side – wait, there aren’t any. Civilians generally don’t understand that acting like a belligerent ass, yelling and mentioning “yo mama” to a cop (of any race) is a really dumb thing to do and may well result in your fully justified arrest.
As for Obama, what on earth was he thinking? Apparently his inner “community organizer” cannot be repressed forever.
I suspect a lot of Americans are getting, at last, an accurate glimpse into what Obama’s “post-racial America” looks like and feeling slightly queasy.
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I wish Roissy would invite his readers to share how they score on Jonathan Haidt’s Moral Foundations Questionnaire:
http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtlab/mft/index.php
I’m guessing that there would be generally high scores along the purity/sanctity (perhaps especially so) and authority/respect dimensions, if not a general correspondence with the “conservative” permutation.
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”””””’Askjoe,
He is an afro-centrist scholar…which means he basically gets paid to yell about the police. And promote socialism.
Anyway, it’s disingenuous for the media to sanctify this huckster’s tenure.””””””
We have another winner.
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Seeking Alpha writes:
“It’s an issue that needs less hyperbole and further study and consideration. ”
Please, give me a break. Read some Brimelow, Auster, Buchanan, Borjas. Read some of the Congressional debates from the 20’s over the immigration quotas that were put into effect. Study the history of any nation-state. Study the history of any civilization. Read some Enoch Powell. Read John Jay in Federalist #2:
“With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people — a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence.”
The question has been asked and answered a thousand times over.
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””””””The truth
Uh oh. Racial Holy Thread comin up….””””””’
As well this should be. Since Obama president type is making it so.
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I see that Obese-dian is conveniently absent these days.
Anyway, Rasmussen has Barack Obama’s approval rating at just 49&. 51 % disapprove, and of these, 38% STRONGLY disapprove.
But the devil is in the details.
97% of blacks still approve of Obama. Amazing, considering he is just half-black.
But just 41% of whites, and 58% of ‘others’ (Hispanics + Asians) approve of this charlatan.
Thus, excluse the black unthinking vote, and just 44% approve of Obama.
Then again, without the black vote, Obama would not have won anyway.
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Andrew – By the logic of that paragraph, immigration should have stopped before Irish, Germans, Italians as well, right?
I can at least agree with the logical consistency of that argument. A nation of former Englishmen.
But then we would have never rose to superpower status. Which might not have been such a bad thing.
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””””””on July 24, 2009 at 12:29 pm deTocqueville
This post is idiotic and I am now dumber for having read it.
I bet if you support Sgt. Crowley’s position, it’s 99% likely you’re white. I bet if you’re a black male, it’s 99% likely that you support Gates’s position.”””””””””
Naa tocqueville. I believe very few black men would actually support crowleys position. They are not retards. Just no one is gonna talk to normal black people.
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””””””Black men have been profiled and disrespected their entire lives so I understand why Gates would have been excessively angry for having white policemen question his residence at that home.””””””
Wrong when I was pulled over with blacks after a party with 30 people all smoking weed I was treated better than when it was all white. Plus got the black guy got away with being high as fuck and driving. They didn’t find any drugs we were let go.
Minor problem with some store clerk with my white friend and I was thrown into back of cop car and the door was slammed hard enough almost took my arm off. They want to make an impression on whites to not fuck up.
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But yea president probably is playing divide and conquer. Why I posted true intent already on my blog.
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Even if Gates was being an asshat, that still doesn’t give the officer the right to arrest him. Can you really get charged for disorderly conduct for yelling loudly at someone? The dude’s 58 and coming home from a tiring trip, he wasn’t physically dangerous. Sounds like the officer got a case of “I’m a police officer, you can’t talk to me” bullyishness. If the incident had happened to a white man it still would have been an unjustified abuse of police power.
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And Roissy is like that one weird kid in second grade who ate crayons.
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Gates shouted “you don;t know who you are messing with!”
certainly the soulful wail of an “oppressed and frightened minority”
mencius moldbug on blacks as america’s new ‘nobility’:
Let’s say you were a person who didn’t care at all about the Constitution, and you wanted to take America back to the past and establish a new order of hereditary nobility. What could be more deliciously reactionary than that? Real, live nobles, walking around on the street. So let’s see what it would take to make it happen.
First, we need to define noble status. Our rule is simple: if either of your parents was a noble, you’re a noble. While this is unusually inclusive for a hereditary order, it is the 21st century, after all. We can step out a little. And nobility remains a biological quality–a noble baby adopted by common parents is noble, a common baby adopted by noble parents is common.
Fine. What are the official duties and privileges of our new nobility? Obviously, we can’t really call it a noble order unless it has duties and privileges.
Well, privileges, anyway. Who needs duties? What’s the point of being a noble, if you’re going to have all these duties? Screw it, it’s the 21st century. We’ve transcended duties. On to the privileges.
The basic quality of a noble is that he or she is presumed to be better than commoners. Of course, both nobles and commoners are people. And people do vary. Individual circumstances must always be considered. However, the official presumption is that, in any conflict between a noble and a commoner, the noble is right and the commoner is wrong. Therefore, by default, the noble should win. This infallible logic is the root of our system of noble privilege.
For example, if a noble attacks a commoner, we can presume that the latter has in some way provoked or offended the former. The noble may of course be guilty of an offense, but the law must be extremely careful about establishing this. If there is a pattern of noble attacks on commoners, there is almost certainly a problem with the commoners, whose behavior should be examined and who may need supplemental education.
If a commoner attacks a noble, however, it is an extremely serious matter. And a pattern of commoner attacks on nobles is unthinkable–it is tantamount to the total breakdown of civilization. In fact, one way to measure the progress that modern society has made is that, in the lifetime of those now living, it was not at all unusual for mobs of commoners to attack and kill nobles! Needless to say, this doesn’t happen anymore.
This intentional disparity in the treatment of unofficial violence creates the familiar effect of asymmetric territorial dominance. A noble can stroll anywhere he wants, at any time of day or night, anywhere in the country. Commoners are advised not to let the sun set on them in noble neighborhoods, and if they go there during the day they should have a good reason for doing so.
One of the main safeguards for our system of noble authority is a systematic effort to prevent the emergence of commoner organizations which might exercise military or political power. Commoners may of course have friends who are other commoners, but they may not network on this basis. Nobles may and of course do form exclusive social networks on the basis of nobility.
Most interactions between commoners and nobles, of course, do not involve violence or politics. Still, by living in the same society, commoners and nobles will inevitably come into conflict. Our goal is to settle these conflicts, by default, in favor of the noble.
For example, if a business must choose whether to hire one of two equally qualified applicants, and one is a noble while the other is a commoner, it should of course choose the noble. The same is true for educational admissions and any other contest of merit. Our presumption is that while nobles are intrinsically, inherently and immeasurably superior to commoners, any mundane process for evaluating individuals will fail to detect these ethereal qualities–for which the outcome must therefore be adjusted.
Speaking of the workplace, it is especially important not to let professional circles of commoner resistance develop. Therefore, we impose heavy fines on corporations whose internal or external policies or practices do not reflect a solid pro-noble position. For example, a corporation which permits its commoner employees to express insolence or disrespect toward its noble employees, regardless of their relationship in the corporate hierarchy, is clearly liable. Any such commoner must be fired at once if the matter is brought to the management’s attention.
This is an especially valuable tool for promoting the nobility: it literally achieves that result. In practice it makes the noble in any meeting at the very least primus inter pares. Because it is imprudent for commoners to quarrel with him, he tends to get what he wants. Because he tends to get what he wants, he tends to advance in the corporate hierarchy. The result, which should be visible in any large business without dangerous commonerist tendencies, will be a predominance of nobles in top executive positions.
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This gets me pussy, how?
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Chuck: Ever heard of “disorderly conduct”? Look it up. And, hint: don’t yell at and insult cops when they are doing their jobs.
I’m an attorney, as well as a former federal agent, and believe me, under different circumstances (ie Gates’s buddy isn’t the President), he’d be convicted, evidence against him was clear, and attested to by several police officers.
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@doug1
Although the quoted text may be the work of a liberal author, it is not, by any means, a liberal argument. Opposing government infringement on personal liberty is a fundamental conservative value.
If race were removed from the Gates scenario (white officer, white subject) this story would never have broken along traditional Dem-GOP political lines.
The author in your snippet argues, correctly, that this is an issue of civil liberties, not civil rights.
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Even if Gates was being an asshat, that still doesn’t give the officer the right to arrest him. Can you really get charged for disorderly conduct for yelling loudly at someone?
Wrong, and yes you can.
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Suppose the cop(s) had just walked away and Gates was crazy, or drunk, or high, and then Gates proceeded to hurt himself or someone else? I would NOT want to be the cop who had walked away at that point. Hell to pay on that one. The public needs to understand that cops are frequently thrust into no-win situations, just like this one. Act accordingly.
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Esquire,
people who haven’t gone to law school usually have great difficulty determining what the actual offense committed in news stories is and eagerly buy the media’s version. cf. bill clinton being impeached for a “blow job” and not for “perjury”.
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If you ever want to see a Black man holler racism, let him be turned down for a dance by a White woman.
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‘The first thing Obama has to do is stop digging…but he can’t because being “authentically black” is more important to him than being America’s President.’
Exactly. Several people have said this isn’t about race, that it’s about class or whatever. And maybe it shouldn’t be about race; it doesn’t sound like the policeman made it about race (except perhaps to be extra careful with Gates). But for men like Gates and Obama, it’s ALWAYS about race. Everything is.
I’m not a big fan of cops; I think many of them are control freaks who think an “innocent” person is someone who just hasn’t been caught yet and is lying. But the fact is, they’re armed and have backup and may shoot you if you give them enough trouble. If I get pulled over, I’m polite and surrender my ID and nothing else. I don’t start yelling at the cop and follow him back to his car, because if I did you can be sure I’d end up arrested, regardless of my color.
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Dana: Yep, yep, yep … and the uninformed public tends to learn about “disorderly conduct” at 2.15am when they act like idiots coming out of bars, talk back to cops, and wind up having a very bad night. 🙂
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>megatron Jones
>
>the person in your quote refers to himself as a redneck. >Are you sure this is an african american friend of yours?
I take it you haven’t been to East Texas, have you?
For some, “Red neck” is more cultural than racial thing there.
My friend wears that tag “Red Neck” as a badge of honor…and it helps that he is light enough skinned to get a red neck.
Watching the Dallas black professional victims community commuting up to Paris Texas to try and make a three drunken felons with outstanding warrants into the next “Racial dragging death/Jena 6 has been very informative in that regard.
Short story:
Two white and one black felon were out drunk as skunks in the back roads of Paris Texas.
The black man told the two white to piss off, wandered away and passed out drunk in the middle of a back road.
The Black drunk was subsequently run over by a gravel truck.
The two white felons found the body later and beat feet to avoid the attention of the local law.
All this showed up in later investigations to include the gravel truck and the driver that reported in his log book about running something over about the time this guy passed out, to include the results of his inspection after the impact.
The local black preachers have been telling the Dallas Black professional victims to go home and quit stirring up trouble over an idiot drunk.
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I’m an attorney. I was a federal agent. I have been pulled over by cops and even questioned once in a very Gates-like fashion. I handled it like an adult and, amazingly, I didn’t get my ass kicked by the po-po.
If you act like an idiot, there will be consequences (unless you’re a famous professor of African-American whatever at Harvard).
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Obama Calls Sgt. Crowley
http://www.theroot.com/views/obama-calls-sgt-crowley
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Thanks, Rob. Obama is a world-class douche – what a mealy-mouthed pseudo-apology. He is such a fucking lawyer.
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@Tarl
Okay, guess it’s a crime. The fact that it is, though, is some bs. Being “annoying” is not something we should arrest people for, especially since such a subjective condition could easily get abused. All the talk about how cops are “thrust into dangerous situations” should give them the right to arrest people who are acting in erratic manners only if they’re actually in a dangerous situation. If you want to say that a cop should have the right to arrest a yelling individual because he usually encounters dangerous situations, then that same logic would give him a clear pass to arrest a toddler having a temper tantrum. Adults should be capable of dealing with assholes without being assholes themselves. Throwing someone in jail for even a night for insulting you is disproportionate. Just walk away if it bothers you so much.
I guess that’s the way it is, but it still pisses me off.
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It’s still not an apology, its more “I chose the wrong words but I still meant” Which is to say he still thinks Crowley is stupid, he just wants to say it differently. Didn’t even say I’m sorry, at least its not reported that way.
And yet he claimed he didn’t know enough about the incident. Seriously, he’s trying to fool the non-race-baiters by saying he’s not a biased dumbass while “coding” his words such that race-baiters hear the truth: “This honky was stupid for DARING to mess with a black man who is my friend. He’s stupid, black men can do whatever they want.”
Fucking asshole.
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Chuck: I don’t like paying my taxes, and nobody else I know does either … but it’s the law. What’s your point?
Police are not just upholders of the law, they are also a symbol of it, and of public order. You attack a cop, you are in a sense attacking the justice system (which is why a cop killing is a more serious crime than ‘regular’ homicide, and also why it’s a really bad idea to assault, say, a judge).
There is no constitutional right to yell at an insult a peace officer, in uniform, doing his/her duty – anywhere in this country.
Cops can be jerks, they’re human, but the law exists for a perfectly valid reason. And, again, the Gates situation was handled perfectly well by the cops involved; even the black cop on scene is now publicly backing the arresting officer.
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On the strength of the police report, I wish Obama had been more circumspect during the press conference so he wouldn’t have to do the lawyer bit; and I think the officer’s decision was reasonable, and that Gates was foolishly abusive in his language; but I still have doubts whether a white man would have been arrested under similar circumstances after the Harvard ID had been produced.
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I am acquainted with the Cambridge PD, and I am very confident that anybody who acted as Gates did would have been hauled in, color blind.
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Chuck, you could get the law change, but its a minor catch-all.
It’s not overtly vague, and it allows the police the ability to move people who “aren’t committing any crime” but are clearly trouble: people screaming, yelling, being anti-social in a threatening manner, etc.
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>>If you act like an idiot, there will be consequences (unless you’re a famous professor of African-American whatever at Harvard).
And the cop acted like an idiot too. It’s true that Gates should’ve been more respectful because he was dealing with someone who had the power to arrest him, and it was idiotic of him not too. But if the cop was thinking of the consequences too, he would’ve realized that it’s a stupid idea to arrest a Harvard professor who was claiming racial bias. It’s rather likely that such an action would blow up in the media.
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Sorry Seeking Alpha, you don’t get to deconstruct America that easily. Theologian Will Herberg:
“The enthusiasts of the ‘melting pot’ . . . were wrong . . . in
regard to the cultural aspect of the assimilative process. They
looked forward to a genuine blending of cultures, to which
every ethnic strain would make its own contribution and out of
which would emerge a new cultural synthesis, no more English
than German or Italian and yet in some sense transcending
and embracing them all. In certain respects, this has indeed
become the case: our American cuisine includes antipasto and
spaghetti, frankfurters and pumpernickel, filet mignon and
french fried potatoes, borsch, sour cream, and gefullte fish, on
a perfect equality with fried chicken, ham and eggs, and pork
and beans. But it would be a mistake to infer from this that
the American’s image of himself—and that means the ethnic
group member’s image of himself as he becomes American—
is a composite or synthesis of the ethnic elements that have
gone into the making of the American. It is nothing of the kind:
The American’s image of himself is still the Anglo American
ideal it was at the beginning of our independent existence. The
“national type” as ideal has always been, and remains, pretty
well fixed. It is the Mayflower, John Smith, Davy Crockett,
George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln that define the
American’s selfimage, and this is true whether the American
in question is a descendant of the Pilgrims or the grandson of
an immigrant from southeastern Europe. ”
http://jtl.org/auster/PNS.pdf
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“but I still have doubts whether a white man would have been arrested under similar circumstances after the Harvard ID had been produced.”
—Do you know anything about Crowley? Rob, Crowley’s so pc, he probably would have wrapped a white man up long *before* he arrested Gates *in full view of a black police officer, who saw nothing wrong with it.*
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Wise or not politically, Sgt Crowley did the right thing, really the only thing he could do when he had a raving lunatic, itching for a fight, on his hands. The beauty of our system, and the best indication of Crowley’s integrity, is that he brought Gates in KNOWING there had to be a shitstorm awaiting him, since he was putting the cuffs on a black Harvard professor, who was threatening him with consequences for doing his job.
Justice is supposed to be blind, remember?
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“And the cop acted like an idiot too. ”
–cop did the right think Chuck. He put an ass in jail for being an ass. Even NotMyPresident is coming around to the fact that not even he can fool people into believing this is racial.
If Gates tries to make himself into a martyr—-currently recooperating on Martha’s Vineyard, lol!—-he will be laughed otu of everywhere except the CBC.
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>>Police are not just upholders of the law, they are also a symbol of it, and of public order.
Free speech is part of the law too.
>>You attack a cop, you are in a sense attacking the justice system (which is why a cop killing is a more serious crime than ‘regular’ homicide, and also why it’s a really bad idea to assault, say, a judge).
Cops are also held up as honorable and deserving of respect. I’d always thought that part of being honorable was being the “bigger man” and walking away from a situation like this. There are thousands of people who claim cops are racially biased, and there are even more who just hate cops in general. Arresting one won’t affect that at all.
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>>The beauty of our system, and the best indication of Crowley’s integrity, is that he brought Gates in KNOWING there had to be a shitstorm awaiting him
Yeah, you’re right, that is rather honorable.
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Chuck: Presumably you have been to enough school to realize that free speech is not an absolute. Yelling “yo mama” at a cop does NOT constitute free or protected speech. Anywhere.
Respect the badge and the uniform, not necessarily the person.
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Andrew E
America became the super power she is only because of her immigrants. You can’t be a superpower without a superpowers population.
I’m not sure what your point was in posting that clip. It seems to argue that despite immigration, our culture is still Anglo-Saxon. If that’s the case, that would argue in favor of immigration, right? That we get all the benefits without the cultural distillation.
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>>cop did the right think Chuck. He put an ass in jail for being an ass.
Kicking someone out of a restaurant, a club, a sporting event, etc. for being an ass is the right thing to do. Socially ostracizing an ass is the right thing to do. Putting someone in jail for being an ass is disproportionate.
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”””””””””’Dana,
Speaking of the workplace, it is especially important not to let professional circles of commoner resistance develop. Therefore, we impose heavy fines on corporations whose internal or external policies or practices do not reflect a solid pro-noble position. For example, a corporation which permits its commoner employees to express insolence or disrespect toward its noble employees, regardless of their relationship in the corporate hierarchy, is clearly liable. Any such commoner must be fired at once if the matter is brought to the management’s attention.
This is an especially valuable tool for promoting the nobility: it literally achieves that result. In practice it makes the noble in any meeting at the very least primus inter pares. Because it is imprudent for commoners to quarrel with him, he tends to get what he wants. Because he tends to get what he wants, he tends to advance in the corporate hierarchy. The result, which should be visible in any large business without dangerous commonerist tendencies, will be a predominance of nobles in top executive positions.”””””””’
Ahh yes but when companies develope zero tolerance laws. God help when the commoners do the same.
Company: Your Fired.
Commoner: Well I have zero tolerance for that shit just like you have zero tolerance for my actions.
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Chuc, can’t agree: “Putting someone in jail for being an ass is disproportionate.”
—-There are lines. Like I said, if someone were on a street corner, yelling swears across the screet at people, telling them about their mama and all that, and yelling that they were racists, you take them in. No one would feel safe walking around with that guy on the corner.
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roissy,
Gates reminds me of the guy at the bar or the kid on the playground when we were kids who talks large amounts of shit, trying to instigate something, and then when it goes down he starts to back-pedal and whimper like a scared puppy.
Gates stepped up big telling Crowly that he’d “talk to yo momma outside” and throwing racist jabs at him, but when the shit went down and Gates was cuffed, he started whining about lack of cane and that the cuffs were too tight.
Would Malcolm have complained that his cuffs were too tight?
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>>Presumably you have been to enough school to realize that free speech is not an absolute. Yelling “yo mama” at a cop does NOT constitute free or protected speech. Anywhere.
The trend this century has been towards defining any sort of expression as free speech. The only cases I know of that that some sort of communication gets censored or punished is in the case of causing a dangerous situation (the classic yelling-fire!-in-a-movie-theater case), lying to the public (ads making false claims, etc.) or slander (which I believe, has to come in some sort of publication like a newspaper, tv show, etc.).
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a raving lunatic, itching for a fight
Itching for a fight? I don’t extract anything of the kind from the report. Verbally raving, yes.
I
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>> No one would feel safe walking around with that guy on the corner.
Yeah, but if he’s in his own front yard? No one’s making you come to Gates’ house.
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@Esquire
I’m not a lawyer, but I have studied constitutional law and saying “yo mama” to a police officer is almost certainly protected speech.
From the First Amendment Center:
Consider the following situations in which offensive statements were found not to constitute fighting words:
* Calling a police officer a “son of a bitch” (Johnson v. Campbell, 3rd Circuit, 2003).
* Yelling “fuck you all” to a police officer and security personnel at a nightclub (Cornelius v. Brubaker, Minnesota District Court, 2003).
* Telling a police officer: “I’m tired of this God damned police sticking their nose in shit that doesn’t even involve them” (Brendle v. City of Houston, Court of Appeals of the State of Mississippi, 2000).
* Telling a security officer “This is bullshit” when rousted from a parking lot (U.S. v. McDermott, Eastern District of Pennsylvania, 1997).
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/speech/personal/topic.aspx?topic=fighting_words
It’s somewhat irrelevant, since Gates was arrested for his “conduct,” rather than his speech, but it would certainly appear that everything he said was protected by the First Amendment.
Free speech may not be absolute, but thankfully it can’t be limited as easily as you suggest.
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no one has “freedom of speech”–Freedom of speech refers to the the state or federal government’s ability to enact laws that restrict speech based on CONTENT alone. state and federal governments are unequivocally allowed to restrict speech when the restrictions are based on the time, place or manner in which the speech occurs.
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If you can find a lawyer able to convince anyone that yelling “yo mama” at the po-po is protected speech, get me his number ASAP, I want him as my co-counsel on everything.
Defamatory speech is not protected; slander is spoken, libel is written.
You also seem not to understand the difference between criminal and civil matters. False and misleading ads are not necessarily (indeed are hardly ever) illegal, but can be subject to civil remedy.
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“if someone were on a street corner, yelling swears across the screet at people, telling them about their mama and all that, and yelling that they were racists, you take them in. No one would feel safe walking around with that guy on the corner.”
If you were not on the street corner, but on your own property – for example, on your porch – doing this, they are clearly guilty of disorderly conduct.
If my neighbor stands on his porch and starts yelling and acting like a jerk, I guarantee you I’m calling the cops on him.
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Cato: You are absolutely right in a technical (ie 1st Amendment) sense, but protected speech can still be criminal in context, ie Gates, who, like you said, was arrested for disorderly conduct.
I have an absolute constitutional right to make speeches from my deck. I do not necessarily have the right to do so at 3am, using big loudspeakers, for instance.
I am trying to explain to the laity here 🙂
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Seeking Alpha,
This is getting absurd. The issue here is not immigration per se, but WHO’S immigrating and in what numbers. You have no right to say or imply that because America once allowed millions of non-Anglo Europeans to immigrate then, there’s no argument for restricting immigration from Muslims, Africans or Mestizos. The differences between Europeans and non-Europeans are orders of magnitude larger than the differences between Anglos and non-Anglo Europeans. Why don’t you understand this?
Recall (or perhaps more correctly, learn for the first time) that America cut off virtually all immigration from the Revolution to the 1850’s and from the 1920’s to the 1960’s. So it wasn’t immigration PER SE that led America to greatness. It was highly capable populations (read: white Europeans) taking on the English/Anglo character of the country and through the prism of Anglo government, religion, traditions and customs made America great.
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America became the super power she is only because of her immigrants. You can’t be a superpower without a superpowers population.
Meh. This assumes that the Anglo-Scottish-Irish population wouldn’t breed and fill up the space if there weren’t any immigrants.
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..Defamatory speech is not protected; slander is spoken, libel is written.
You also seem not to understand the difference between criminal and civil matters. False and misleading ads are not necessarily (indeed are hardly ever) illegal, but can be subject to civil remedy.
I said “gets censored or punished”. Civil remedy can definitely involve censorship (removing an ad from the air) or punishment (monetary compensation to individuals who bought the product based on false claims).
I’m not a lawyer, I’m not good at knowing exactly what precise legal terms mean. Hence my error with the def. of slander. But you’re not looking at my argument – I was trying to lay out all the types of speech that I knew of that could result in the law punishing you, and the fact that none of these are even criminal just further adds to my point. Arrest is not a civil remedy.
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Andrew E
Of course it matters who. And we can discuss that, no problem.
But I was showing you how your own quotes were refuting your argument. Your first quote refuted ANY immigration (incl. white Europeans) and your second quote refuted negative cultural implications to immigration.
There’s no need to be rude. You’ve been – in this one small tactical engagement – ‘rhetorically defeated’ so to speak, and I’ve done it politely. So keep your manners in check.
I’ve never said that there aren’t racial differences in who we let in, so please don’t erect strawmen against me.
I’ve said we have no serious proof that our country has been hurt culturally or economically by non-white immigration.
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Do you know anything about Crowley? Rob, Crowley’s so pc, he probably would have wrapped a white man up long *before* he arrested Gates *in full view of a black police officer, who saw nothing wrong with it.* (lurker)
Perhaps. But I’m not claiming anything about Crowley’s character or decency. Implicit bias works through the best of characters.
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@ seeking alpha
I understand that as Jew living three generations after the Holocaust, it makes sense to support immigration as it would reduce the risk that the white Christian majority (like Roissy, PA, Doug and AJ travis) would unleash a pogrom against you
but you work in the same industry as I do. You know like me that most of the people here resent us and would gladly see us screwed and our industry regulated out of existence
you know how much NAMs love taxes and how easy it is to tax ” rich people”.
dont´you think that the actual number of NAMs in the US is enough to assure you that a pogrom wil not happen?
don´t you think that as the number of NAMs increase they will generate the political basis for some HUgo Chavez figure to over tax or over regulate finance? DO you believe that middle class guys like PA and Doug and Roissy would stand up in arms for us if some moron in DC decided to tax variable income (bonuses) at an 80% rate? I bet they would, but only much later once that tax rates were slowly extended to them.
don´t you see the writing on the wall?
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>>I have an absolute constitutional right to make speeches from my deck. I do not necessarily have the right to do so at 3am, using big loudspeakers, for instance.
The reason 3am speeches are illegal has nothing to do with their content. Unless the loudness of Gates’ voice can cause physical harm to people, I’d have to say that he was arrested on the content of his words, which is protected.
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Meh. This assumes that the Anglo-Scottish-Irish population wouldn’t breed and fill up the space if there weren’t any immigrants.
They would have, but not nearly fast enough. Subtract from our population the number of all immigrants to ever have come + their spawn from out current population.
The continent would be woefully underpopulated.
It’s the same reason Australia will not be a super power anytime soon. They have the resources. They have the space. They have control of a continent like us. They have a more homogeneous population. But they won’t be a super power in this century.
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@Dana
That is absolutely wrong.
If governments could “unequivocally” restrict speech based on the time, place or manner in which the speech occurs, then the government could mandate that speech take place only when spoken quietly, into a pillow, at midnight, on a leap year.
As a refresher, the First Amendment says:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
Note the bit about peaceably assembling.
While the courts have allowed governments to enact limited restrictions on free speech based on time, manner etc., the presumption of the speaker’s right remains paramount.
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Rob–
You’ve been well propagandized.
The white guy, IF HE HAD BEEN EQUALLY AND PERSISTENT INSULTING AND IN THE COPS FACE would probably have been even more likely to be arrested.
The cop would know the chances of there being any wide or difficult to handle stink over the white guy’s arrest would be minimal; but that they were real in the case of arresting a Harvard faculty member black, who was threatening to play the race card big.
The truth of the case is that Gates is USED TO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES and special treatment that white male Harvard faculty guys do not get. He’s used to being treated with kid gloves.
Cornell West was particularly egregious in this. He felt he should be able to flout Harvard’s scholarly output and productivity standards with impunity. Summers in effect forced in out. Of course that did not exactly help summers with the PC leftist crowd in the Harvard faculty when he made his famous remarks about women as a group having a narrower shaped bell cure of math abilities — and also having sometimes different work/family trade off priorities.
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@ gig
makes sense to support immigration as it would reduce the risk that the white Christian majority (like Roissy, PA, Doug and AJ travis) would unleash a pogrom against you
I don’t think any Jew consciously thinks this way, and I certainly don’t. I support immigration because I believe (and would happily change my mind if proved wrong) that the biggest drivers of national power are population and economic potential and that immigration is the only way to preserve our edge in both. And I don’t believe that continued immigration will change our Anglo-Saxon culture. I believe second generation Hispanic teens are more like white American teens than Hispanic Mexican teens.
You know like me that most of the people here resent us and would gladly see us screwed and our industry regulated out of existence
I don’t think that’s true. They might hate the worst on Wall Street, and they might some more regulation, but what happened to the tax on AIG bonuses. The people you think resent us defended the right of the AIG employees to have their contracts honored.
And for the record, my industry manages the pensions of teachers, firefighters, and policeman to make sure their retirement benefits are protected.
don´t you think that as the number of NAMs increase they will generate the political basis for some HUgo Chavez figure to over tax or over regulate finance?
I believe these figures rise up because of poverty. Poor men with nothing to lose vote in socialists. And America is not and likely will never be a poor nation.
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>>Do you know anything about Crowley? Rob, Crowley’s so pc, he probably would have wrapped a white man up long *before* he arrested Gates *in full view of a black police officer, who saw nothing wrong with it.*
This is off topic, because I’m pretty much agreeing that the Gates arrest has nothing to do with race. But it pisses me off when people claim that they’re not racist because they associate with black people, or if people claim that their opinions aren’t racist because they have a black friend who agrees. Having a black friend is not a get-out-of-racism-free card. That’s the absurd kind of logic that leads to companies preferentially hiring minorities and women who are underqualified either because they’re overreacting to claims of racial bias or because they want to reap the public-relations benefits of a “diverse” company. Are you going to claim that a homosexual man can’t be homophobic because he’s homosexual? Or what about that Dave Chappelle skit where the KKK recruits a blind black man? Are they not racist cause they have a black friend?
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Seeking Alpha,
Why do you assume the first quote by John Jay means what you think it means. The Founding Fathers lived in an era of moderate immigration from non-Anglo populations. Your problem is you have no affinity for or understanding of Western Civilization. The Founders did, so they were able to say the kinds of things Jay is saying there without contradicting themselves.
“I’ve said we have no serious proof that our country has been hurt culturally or economically by non-white immigration.”
You’ve just discredited yourself completely with this statement.
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Damn, I’m enjoying these discussions, but I’ll be out of here in 45 minutes. Hopefully they can be pushed a little farther before then.
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cato
i stand corrected–unequivocally was too strong
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“Should he have taken this silently with head bowed like a good house-negro? “
Strident anger about racist oppressors isn’t constructive racial dialog. It’s an attempt at dominance. It apparently failed miserably, and will probably mark a sort of turning point in people’s willingness to put up with that sort of behavior.
If I had done what Gates did, I’d be in jail too. The histrionic nitwit should have THANKED the policeman for making sure some dirtbag wasn’t stealing his shit. Instead, he acted like an ungrateful jackass. Just because you’re a famous asshole doesn’t make you above the law; it doesn’t entitle you to self righteous tirades at a policeman trying to do his job. He actually did the nation and the cop an enormous favor by bringing this out in public. Had it remained a small town incident, he might have managed to use his juice to wreck the cop’s career. Now that he’s exposed this “injustice” -everyone sees him for the petty bully that he is.
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Your problem is you have no affinity for or understanding of Western Civilization.
Where on Earth do you get that from? I understand it so well that I believe free men in this country will overwhelmingly adopt it over their native civilization.
Why do you assume the first quote by John Jay means what you think it means.
You quoted this part: the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs
18th century Italians, for instance, had different ancestors, different language, different religion, different principles of government, and different manners and customs from 18th century Englishmen. Which part of that do you dispute?
You’ve just discredited yourself completely with this statement.
Again, rather than just STATING it as obvious, show some intelligence and give an example. We’ve never been richer. The poor have never been richer. The middle class have never been richer. In terms of what their income and wealth can purchase in both essentials and luxuries.
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Seeking Alpha,
“I understand it so well…..”
Let’s find out. Define Western Civilization.
“We’ve never been richer. The poor have never been richer. The middle class have never been richer. ”
Questions: Is government growing smaller or larger? Who’s benefiting the most from government largesse? Is it easier or harder to support a family, buy a home, have 2 cars on a single blue-collar income today versus during the 1950’s?
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>>It was highly capable populations (read: white Europeans) taking on the English/Anglo character of the country and through the prism of Anglo government, religion, traditions and customs made America great.
Mexicans immigrating allows those Anglos to stop doing menial jobs like washing the dishes in a restaurant and get to work propagating those supposedly great Anglo culture by getting better paying and more influential jobs. Unless driving through the barrio every once in a while is a serious threat to your culture, I’d have to say that white guys get the better end of the bargain by letting Mexicans immigrate.
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my industry manages the pensions of teachers, firefighters, and policeman to make sure their retirement benefits are protected
mine too
are you partner already?
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Chuck, rights aren’t absolute. You can’t yell “Fire” in a crowded theater (even a federally owned -and-operated one). The content of the speech is disasterous.
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are you partner already?
Didn’t realize you were buyside. We fly low. Anyway, I’m 23, out of college two years. Takes a bit more than that to make partner.
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I am 25, if everything goes well I can be there before at 28 or 29
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@ lurker
Yeah, I already said that exact same thing. What’s your point?
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Anyway, what’s “disastrous” about yelling at a cop? In the fire example, people can die or be seriously injured. In this case, it sounds like a typical day at work for the cop.
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Seeking Alpha–
I doubt your argument holds up. I’m sure it doesn’t with respect to immigration law and enforcement changes post the 1965 immigration reforms.
Few people think America is woefully underpopulated. The needs of our economy are different.
What is the economic and cultural basis for not supporting deportation of illegal immigrants now, with the current very high and still rapidly rising unemployment rates.
As well illegal immigration clearly does suppress wage rates.
It makes little short term, and much less long term sense to keep letting in classes of immigrants that our political and other elites will then turn around and argue “need” affirmative action, or their children do. It’s nuts to burden ourselves in that way.
Instead we should be luring in sizeable but not mass numbers of the best and the brightest.
Instead by not making our immigration standards more brain power selective and less (extended) family unifying (as Canada does), and especially by not deporting illegal immigrants or effectively policing illegals with employers and unemployment offices and so on, we’re rapidly on the way towards having a majority of this country be underperforming minorities (especially peasant origin Hispanics) the the PC insist must be given affirmative action.
How is that in the best long term interests of this country – not to mention those of the current majority population? How is that really in Jewish best interests, rationally considered?
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anyway, once you become patner all those problems disappear.
dividends are un-taxable -not even HUgo Chavez did that – and any modern economy cannot exist without a financial sector
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“The beauty of our system, and the best indication of Crowley’s integrity, is that he brought Gates in KNOWING there had to be a shitstorm awaiting him.”
No kidding. You know what had to be going through his mind the whole time: “Please shut up and don’t make me arrest you. I know exactly how this will be played in the media, because I teach the freaking class. Please shut up and don’t make me arrest you.”
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Let’s find out. Define Western Civilization.
Broad cultural and ethical traditions, mainly centered around freedom and liberty, defined by Greco-Roman civilization and Judeo-Christian religions. What’s your definition?
Questions: Is government growing smaller or larger? Who’s benefiting the most from government largesse? Is it easier or harder to support a family, buy a home, have 2 cars on a single blue-collar income today versus during the 1950’s?
These have nothing to do with my question. You’re trying to pick these very specific aspects of our economic situation. We’re not a nation of factory workers anymore.
Is the average standard of living for a white American higher or lower than 50 years ago? All our essentials are cheaper and all our basic luxuries are cheaper.
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Chuck, you also cannot say, for example, a statemen about desiring to kill the President (AFAIK). Or words to incite a riot. Or words to encourage someone to an illegal act, in many cases; you become an accomplice. You can’t tell someone where to hide from the cops and claim you weren’t part of the act (“aiding and abetting”). You can’t scream out someone’s address in the hope or knowing that that person’s house might be attacked (for example, you couldn’t give OJ’s home address to the Klan and expect to get off scot-free).
The list goes on. Every right we have can be limited in some way. Our Constitution buttresses our counterarguments and erodes possible intrusions, but doesn’t completely elimnate the limitations.
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gig
What’s your total AUM? Our youngest partner is in his 40s.
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Chuck: “Anyway, what’s “disastrous” about yelling at a cop? In the fire example, people can die or be seriously injured. In this case, it sounds like a typical day at work for the cop.”
—its not the cop per se here; its people in general. The “Broken Windows” theory applies: if someone can just scream and yell obscenities, insults, attacks, threats at the top of their lungs obnoxiously, the neighborhood deteriorates—people feel unsafe and disrespected. If authority figures can’t take reasonable means to uphold societal respect, then we devolve into, well, college campuses (which are private, for the most part).
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Doug
How is that really in Jewish best interests, rationally considered?
I wouldn’t know what ‘Jewish’ best interests are and I’m getting a little bored of the angle.
Few people think America is woefully underpopulated. The needs of our economy are different.
I didn’t say it is. I said if – as someone suggested – we had stopped all immigration after the civil war, we would have remained woefully underpopulated and never risen to superpower status – at least not last century like we did.
And if we hadn’t, Europe would likely be one country/one continent now instead of us.
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Seeking Alpha,
Your definition excludes one very important ingredient, white people. The white race is a necessary but insufficient condition for Western Civilization, which is an amalgamation of the Christian religion with the remnants of the classical Greco-Roman civilization and the cultures of the northern barbarians. Chrisitianity itself being derived from Judaism so Jews are Westerners as well.
“We’re not a nation of factory workers anymore.”
Why not? Did everyone in America suddenly get above-average IQs?
“Is the average standard of living for a white American higher or lower than 50 years ago? All our essentials are cheaper and all our basic luxuries are cheaper.”
Housing? College/Schooling? Medical Insurance/Care? Vacations? Comfort and security with single incomes?
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@lurker
1. Killing the president.
A credible threats to kill someone is illegal, yes (threating another person’s life is a crime even if it’s not the president) are fine.
2. Inciting a riot.
Here you’re directly causing damage/injury/death.
3. Words to encourage an illegal act, in many cases.
“In many cases” is really broad. You can post bomb plans on the internet and not be arrested. Words to encourage an illegal act have to practically be on the level of doing it yourself to get arrested for it.
4. Aiding and abetting
More engaging in criminal behavior.
5. trying to get someone killed by revealing information
Again, more with the encouraging criminal behavior/damage/loss of life, etc.
Calling someone a racist is not criminal (even if you’re wrong), nor does it cause damage, nor does it cause the loss of life.
The laws and judges are usually reasonable, and they limit rights when it makes sense. The fact that it’s legal for a cop to arrest you for being loud and annoying and insulting is not reasonable. Wtf, is what I’m saying.
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other chuck,
the cops were leaving, but Gates decided to follow them outside his house still hurling calls of racism at the crowly.
if this incident isn’t about race, then chalk it up to yet another instance of too much police power. but at the same time, citizens know the extent of police power, and they can either choose to test it by yelling at the cops or they can abide by closing the door behind the cops as they leave.
Gates is the one making this a race issue, obviously. he *could* take this opportunity to discuss the overarching power grab of the police, one that may or may not conflict our natural rights as citizens. instead, he plays the race card, ineffectively, derailing the real issue at hand.
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Seeking Alpha–
I’ve never been a super immigration restrictionist.
I want to let in sizeable numbers of the best and the brightest.
Why not address my other points?
About deporting illegals in these high unemployment times. And being sure none of the stimulus jobs money goes to employ them, while unemployment levels are as they are?
What about the problems in becoming a nation where the majority “needs” affirmative action?
What kind of insanity is it to give affirmative action to mass numbers of immigrants, or their children?
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Andrew
‘White’ isn’t a race. There are actual races. And Northern Europeans and Southern Europeans are two distinct races. Specifically, Northern Europeans are the ‘pure’ race, who would occasionally sweep down and conquer the Southern Europeans and mix with them. So the ‘pure’ white race is actually a barbarous, warrior race, while the Mediterranean race is a hybrid.
Why not? Did everyone in America suddenly get above-average IQs?
Well manufacturing is 22% of the workforce, so my point still holds.
Housing? College/Schooling? Medical Insurance/Care? Vacations?
Well all those things are being consumed. Do you think it’s only the rich? Fully 33% of White Americans hold a college degree and that’s including older white Americans. And a college degree is not necessary for many types of work. Most Americans have health insurance. Almost all Americans have housing. Most Americans have vacations. So yea, I think we’re doing just fine.
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>>its not the cop per se here; its people in general. The “Broken Windows” theory applies: if someone can just scream and yell obscenities, insults, attacks, threats at the top of their lungs obnoxiously, the neighborhood deteriorates—people feel unsafe and disrespected.
Yes. Cambridge, Massachusetts is very unsafe. Those crazy professors are liable to shoot you up. Come on, no one in a neighborhood rich enough that Ivy league professors live there is going to think that they’re unsafe because of one incident.
>>If authority figures can’t take reasonable means to uphold societal respect, then we devolve into, well, college campuses (which are private, for the most part).
If authority figures take what they think are reasonable means to uphold societal respect, you end up in the gulag. If you’re calling on pop economics with the whole “broken window” theory, I’ll call on pop philosophy and invoke the whole “slippery slope” argument.
Seriously, no figure of authority should be allowed to lock me up because he thinks I’m disrespectful. If I am directly interfering with his job or harming other people by my disrespect, then he has that right. But otherwise it’s him having a right that he should not have.
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“@ gig
makes sense to support immigration as it would reduce the risk that the white Christian majority (like Roissy, PA, Doug and AJ travis) would unleash a pogrom against you
I don’t think any Jew consciously thinks this way, and I certainly don’t. I support immigration because I believe (and would happily change my mind if proved wrong) that the biggest drivers of national power are population and economic potential and that immigration is the only way to preserve our edge in both. And I don’t believe that continued immigration will change our Anglo-Saxon culture. I believe second generation Hispanic teens are more like white American teens than Hispanic Mexican teens.”
Some Rabbis have said exactly this.
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a bit more than 1bn USD.
the big partners, those who have around 20% of the fund, are all around 40. but the last two partners became so at 28, and both have around 2% of the fund now.
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Chuck:
“Come on, no one in a neighborhood rich enough that Ivy league professors live there is going to think that they’re unsafe because of one incident.”
–a man screaming and yelling profanities for nothing more than police following procedure? You don’t think that’ll have an affect on the neighborhood? What, only poor people gotta follow the rules now?
“If authority figures take what they think are reasonable means to uphold societal respect, you end up in the gulag.”
—Chuck, you’re being reactionary. You’re posited a false choice, either gulag or freedom. This is a much more middle ground.
“I’ll call on pop philosophy and invoke the whole “slippery slope” argument.”
–Chuck, these laws have been in place since the Founding. In fact, your slippery slope goes the other way: we’ve removed a lot of barriers for people to act like idiots in the name of freedom. Quite frankly, your argument falls apart on that.
“But otherwise it’s him having a right that he should not have.”
—so again, you beliee people shoudl ahve the right to swear at, insult, and call racist anyone on the street at the top of their lungs with no repercussions?
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the world turned upside down:
the largest IPO in the US this year risks being of a Brazilian firm trying to get external funding.
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Chuck–
I guess you don’t know about family law and family courts.
This quickly dropped disorderly conduct is utterly trivial in comparison. It’s also something he could very easily have avoided entirely. Unlike men in family courts under feminist family law these days.
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Doug
I didn’t address your points because you weren’t addressing mine. You’re talking about illegal aliens and I haven’t said anything about them. But we can have that discussion. I think I’ll stay at work a little longer to continue this discussion.
For illegal immigration:
It’s not possible to deport them all. Let’s admit that up front. Not even close.
Also, I’m against illegal immigration. Absolutely. I think it’s difficult to become a true citizen if your very first act in this country was to break its laws.
But I think a lot of people here would kick them out and shut the door behind them. And I believe that would cause a lot of long-term economic problems.
Moving on to… Ideal legal immigration
I don’t know enough about immigration law and the various states of citizenship (green card, visa, etc.) to suggest detailed policies.
But I think the goal of any immigration policy should be to give businesses the workers they need. Whether cherry pickers on a Californian farm or electronic chip engineers in a Texas design lab.
If you want to frame it in pro-white terms… we’ll always have mild inflation in goods and services. If we don’t have non-whites doing our menial labor, that means fellow whites will fall behind as an underclass and not be able to afford a decent life.
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one of the big partners joked in the morning call meeting today: “worst than having a black president, is suffering the humiliation of having the largest IPO in the year being held by a Brazilian firm”
I sincerely laughed
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Mandy – Links to that? If that’s the case, I think it’s deplorable. I also think I could find a lot of nasty, deplorable things that white Christians have said, but I wouldn’t attribute them to an entire religion or people.
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Gig
Where do you work/live? NYC?
We’re about 6bn AUM, 50/50 PE/HF, founded in 1994. Besides that one partner whose 40, the rest are 50s. I don’t think I’ll ever make partner here. Hoping to get enough experience here to move onto something smaller/newer but with more opportunity for growth.
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And Doug, I just meant to bold my heading, not the entire part on illegal immigration.
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São Paulo, Brazil
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Gig
Oh okay. I thought you were Brazil, but then you were talking about ‘our’ industry and for some reason I thought you meant you were at risk as well.
So much for suggesting we grab a drink!
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Rob–
Now that is the work of some extensive PC propaganda.
Whites lean over backwards to be more than fair to blacks all the time. To let go things they wouldn’t with other whites, and so on. Probably happens a lot more often.
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I bet you are more at risk than me.
The problem is that the actions of the American president give ideas to the rest of the world
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Obama, for example, may take the marginal tax rate over 50%. ours here stands at 27.5%.
I can see the usual people complaining that rich people here taxed to low
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Hmmm… good point Gig. What’s it like living under Lula. Is he pretty benign or is it a hostile environment?
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traitorous filth:
It’s not possible to deport them all. Let’s admit that up front. Not even close.
if it’s possible to put men on the moon with 1960s technology, it’s possible to kick out illegal squatters with 2009 technology.
do not confuse means with the will to use those means.
If we don’t have non-whites doing our menial labor, that means fellow whites will fall behind as an underclass and not be able to afford a decent life.
externalities, doofus. externalities.
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”””””””””mandy been here a while
“””””””’@ gig
makes sense to support immigration as it would reduce the risk that the white Christian majority (like Roissy, PA, Doug and AJ travis) would unleash a pogrom against you”””””””””””””
I don’t think any Jew consciously thinks this way, and I certainly don’t. I support immigration because I believe (and would happily change my mind if proved wrong) that the biggest drivers of national power are population and economic potential and that immigration is the only way to preserve our edge in both. And I don’t believe that continued immigration will change our Anglo-Saxon culture. I believe second generation Hispanic teens are more like white American teens than Hispanic Mexican teens.”
Some Rabbis have said exactly this.””””””””””””’
Dam is that busted?
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Seeking Alpha
I’ll have to look it up and then I will link it for you.
I do not attribute this to an entire group of people.
But to pretend that there is not a lot of anti-white Christian sentiment among Rabbis is disingenuous.
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if it’s possible to put men on the moon with 1960s technology, it’s possible to kick out illegal squatters with 2009 technology.
do not confuse means with the will to use those means.
Come on man. I’m with you that they shouldn’t be here.
But there are over 10 million of them. How would you catch them all? It’d probably take a year just to physically move them all out.
[editor: i’m down wit dat.]
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Seeking Alpha,
“White isn’t a race.”
People don’t self-identify as white? Since when?
“We’re doing just fine”
By what measure, our consumption? How is that consumption financed? See:
http://www.comstockfunds.com/files/NLPP00000%5C292.pdf
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But to pretend that there is not a lot of anti-white Christian sentiment among Rabbis is disingenuous.
I don’t think there is ‘a lot’, no. I think most religious leaders, either Christian or Jewish, are very tolerant people.
I’m guessing you don’t know too many rabbis.
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””””””’gig
one of the big partners joked in the morning call meeting today: “worst than having a black president, is suffering the humiliation of having the largest IPO in the year being held by a Brazilian firm”
I sincerely laughed””””””””””
That is pretty bad.
Embarrassment was when the textile mills in north carolina area got moved in totality to china after the employees trained some chineese so they could send us back the finished product. Then you do an antique show in the area and no one has any money so you can see some trickle down in real time.
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we pay medicines for AIDS infected people, we have gay marriage, our divorce laws are screwed like yours, amerindians have constitutional rights above the rest of the poputation and we have HUGE environmental laws
but the government kept the fiscal deficit and the public debt on downward path, the Central Bank has been the best on the world in performance in the last decade and the credit industry is regulated enough to avoid the CRA excesses.
Agribusiness, Construction, MIning and Finance boomed and are starting to boom again. The country grew 5% a year. the decline in the youth population caused a huge decrease in violence
And São Paulo is now the fourth largest stock exchange on Earth. I consider our girls the prettiest and way more feminine than anglo-saxon harpies, my industry is booming, our food is beter, our music is better and we play the best soccer. I am quite supremacist, BTW
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Andrew
So if all Hispanics self-identify as ‘white’ then they are? Race is about blood, not self-identification.
[editor: gnxp had a study showing that self-identification matches up with genetic race at a 99% confidence level.]
And ‘credit market debt’ is the wrong way to think about it. The Federal Reserve tracks household wealth. This was 50trn as of Mar 31st. Consumer credit was 2.5 trillion as of the same time. So consumption financing is actually quite small.
But we don’t need numbers. Look around you. Only an ideologically bound person desperately trying to make his point can argue that we are not a richer nation than we were 50 years ago.
[lag time, traitor. average IQ correlates with gdp fairly well. see: lynn & vanhanen. open the doors to a lower iq population and you are bound to lose relative gdp points over the ensuing decades. not to mention the rush by the productive class to get the hell out of whole regions of the US that are infested with the lovely newcomers and their, uh, cultural vibrancy. see: fbi crime stats. see: educational attainment of 4th generation mexican immigrants. oh, btw, have you seen cali’s budget deficit lately?]
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gig
Overall, sounds like good stuff. But it seems impossible. You’re saying your country is on an upward trajectory without being of homogeneous racial stock? I thought that was impossible!
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[editor: i’m down wit dat.]
As am I, my friend.
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I’ve known Chabad ones. There understanding of the Talmud teachings on Goyim does not sit well with me.
Christianity is considered Avoda Zara.
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Chabad hardly represents ‘a lot’. It’s 200k out of 6mm American Jews.
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Seeking Alpha–
So it’s said as a truism. I don’t know that that’s true. It would take awhile. Eisenhower deported a whole lot. Smaller numbers but then we were a smaller country back then with fewer agents etc. Would require effective employer and other screening.
Let’s admit up front that the feds aren’t doing anything more than pretending to deport many at all, even in these soaring unemployment times. Nor are they doing much if any stimulus money employment screening for illegals.
I don’t particularly. I frame and think of it in terms of those who are already citizens today. I think in terms of the strongest and richest country we can be down the road, overall, not just for whites, or just whites and Asians. I don’t want to ignore or feel ashamed of considering specifically white American interests, but it’s not a strong focus for me. I’m more focused on American culture, with it’s lumps, which I mostly like. I don’t want it to be swamped however, as the illegal Mexican and Central American immigration is threatening to do, particularly in some states such as California. I also have concerns about the effects on black male employment particularly in these times, of such illegal immigrants being allowed to remain and not be deported.
Should any immigrants or their progeny get affirmative action? They came voluntarily. What is the logic of letting people in because our businesses need them as you advocate, and then giving them or their kids affirmative action?
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besides complaining about the ugliness of blacks, my most recurrent theme here is my fear of taxes
an American marginal rate above 50% will ensure that the Brazilian marginal rate will move to 35, maybe 40%, enabled by the huge NAM masses here who would vote for any demagogue promising that
I need America to give a good example.
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True, they are not a lot. Should be talk about the Zionists then? How are those Christians in Israel doing?
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Seeking Alpha,
You make it really easy for people to dislike you. If Hispanics were white then the word ‘Hispanics’ wouldn’t exist.
Credit market debt was $45 trillion end of year 2006. Why does anyone listen to the Fed anymore? The federal government is in the red over $50 trillion. Who’s responsible to pay for that but the American people. What was the federal government’s total present and future liabilities in 1959? What was our current account debt then versus now? You are lying.
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Let’s not be stupid, boys and girls: this is the best thing that has ever happened to Henry Louis Gates, Jr. and it happened pretty much exactly the way he wanted it to happen (except I’m sure he wishes the cop had hit him).
Gates is not stupid. When that cop showed up at his house, he recognized the TITANIC opportunity his presence represented, and immediately set about extracting the maximum personal benefit possible from the situation. How? By attempting to provoke the cop to strike him, which would have been the best possible outcome for Gates.
Even in this slightly less than best case scenario, Gates makes out like a bandit: He’s front page news; the magazine articles, book and documentary he generates based on this episode will enjoy free publicity orders of magnitude greater than his work usually gets; black Jesus even called him a personal friend on national TV. For a black public intellectual in America, this is a huge, HUGE windfall.
Cui bono, baby.
PS Thanks to Roissy for noting what a dickless twerp Gates is, a fact lacking from most of the rest of the commentary out there.
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Replace all the blacks with Mexicans would be great for the country. Aren’t we tired of typical black behavior by now? They never know how to act like decent human beings.
[editor: it wouldn’t be a replacement, it would be an addition. just what the country needs… a second underclass and all that entails in robin hooding vengeance. and before seeking traitor replies, do note that it is not absolute poverty which is the leading indicator of all-against-all societal decay, but the envy engendered by relative povery.]
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Andrew
You’re not very smart and arguing with me illogically about points you don’t understand.
Mandy
I don’t know why you’re trying to convince me that hate exists in anything but a minor way in either Christianity or Judaism. You’re trying to force a point we know to be incorrect. Of course there is hate between all groups at the fringes but neither religion preaches intolerance at its core.
To rest
Have a good weekend.
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@mandy
you posted a picture of you some time ago. Could you re-post it?
also, what´s your age again?
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Please, that is not as much a result of illegal immigration or legal Mexican immigration as a whole host of a other factors.
[editor: cra say what?]
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you would not have to physically deport them all
all you would have to do is remove all policy incentives for them to stay.
no anchor babies citizenship, no public schooling, food stamps, medical care, getting a driver’s license or renting/buying a house without proof of citizenship. no spanish language anything. make it HARD for them to be here and i think they’ll leave
then deport the rest!
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Gates is not a scholar. He’s a con-man. Nearly all of his stuff is written by his army of 35 writers, 12 fact checkers, and 7 editors. He’s a brand not a real scholar. His work is actually done by others. He’s a “Black Studies” Professor. Gimme a break. Guy provoked his arrest to pimp his PBS special on “Racism in America” where his pal the Black Mayor, the Black Governor, and the Black President all back him publicly. Against the White middle class cop who once desperately tried to revive Reggie Lewis with CPR when Lewis collapsed during practice. And taught anti-profiling classes at the Academy.
Read the arrest report at Smoking Gun. Apparently the cops will release the audio recorded over the open mike of the cop’s radio. Won’t look good for Obama or Gates.
The Black cop who was there backs his White colleague in the arrest. The police union is asking for an Obama/Patrick apology and Obama gave a non-apology apology today.
This is about cronyism and race, wrapped up in the fact that Government and Obama run everything now. Cronyism and race were acceptable as long as government was small, times were good, and there were no horrific downsides. Obama wanting to run your doctor’s care, your medical treatments, your way of life (green crap cap and trade) means the stakes got stratospheric, no one can “trust” someone from another race because of the amply demonstrated risk of Black cronyism/race-man solidarity against Whites, and must adopt their own identity politics.
Rasmussen has Obama underwater in approval ratings (below 50%) and below 50% for his Obamacare. Even women only approve of Obama slightly, about 4% more than men on both measures. This was a hideous mistake for Obama.
You can have small government and identity race-baiting politics (hate Whitey) or big government and smashing of all identity / race-baiting politics. You can’t have both. Even White Women care about getting a fair deal for their breast cancer issues, other hugely expensive treatment concerns being screwed over for Blacks and Hispanics. [This was the wedge issue the BNP used successfully to get itself elected to the European Parliament for the first time.]
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I am quite an unsuccesful anti-semite, my hitlerian tendencies nullified by my easiness in befriending individual jews, while believing in the entire discourse of Kevin Macdonald. my best wingman is Jew, my best teacher in graduate school is Jew, my best friend in my former city is jew and I (technically) donated money to find a Jewish friend lost in Malawi.
so for me a anti-semitic wife is a plus. I need that
“drank anti-semtism from mommy´s breasts” stuff
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@mandy
do you cook?
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as a jew who opposes most immigration, i don’t give a flying fuck that it’s “unfair” that my family got to immigrate here and other peoples might not.
immigrants are as bad as our policies allow them to be. my family came here and created wealth out of hard work and good investment–they didn’t take a dime from government or charity and have paid a FORTUNE in income taxes over the years. they weren’t communists or agitators and are deeply grateful to the US for giving them refuge after the war. there was NO reason for the US to allow ungrateful bigmouthed communist or *cough* “liberal” jews to prosper in the US though after WW2 and they should have been deported. immigrants should be expected to assimilate wholly without one special concession. if they don’t like it–bye-eee
if jews think letting a bunch of primitive anti-semitic brown people into the US is going to somehow save them from evil white people they are clinically insane.
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“It’s not possible to deport them all. Let’s admit that up front. Not even close.”
Of course it’s possible. Go google “Operation Wetback.” Eisenhower managed it with 1950s technology. It’s not presently politically palatable, because a lot of dirtballs have subverted democracy. Not only was Operation Wetback easily done; it was incredibly effective, and incredibly awesome in how it was executed. Rather than giving them pleasant plane rides home, we put them on a giant cargo boat and sent them on a pukefest around Cape Horn, giving them a valuable lesson in “don’t fuck with the man who defeated the Nazis.”
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I believe second generation Hispanic teens are more like white American teens than Hispanic Mexican teens.
Will nth generation brown immigrants’ daughters have blue eyes, nordic grace, silken hair, slender bodies, and creamy skin?
If not, then they will never be like like white American teens.
Look, there are tons of countries that produce brown teens. Why do you have this fucking problem with a few countries being left alone to continue producing white teens?
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Gates is not a scholar.
Gates, at his best, is a very good writer and critic. Akshay Ahuja over at the Occasional Review has a nice summary of Gates’ literary virtues (and failings).
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Meanwhile:
http://www.citypaper.com/archivesbrowse.asp?columntitle=Murder%20Ink
Six killed this week, one a white woman, but mostly just blacks killing blacks. Week in and week out. Damn those white cops.
My house was robbed by black people.
My son was assaulted by black non-students in the high school school parking lot, random racial assault.
I have been verbally threated by blacks on at least two occasions while minding my own business (while in a black part of town.)
I have been insulted because of my race by blacks.
I have been racially taunted for dating a black girl (by black men.)
I doubt there is a white person who doesn’t have a first degree relative or a good friend who has not been victimized by black crime.
Black crime and black racism in this country is unrelenting.
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We did not bring them here forcibly, so it is not necessary to deport them forcibly. They came here voluntarily because economic, political and social conditions encouraged them to come. Change those conditions, and they will go away voluntarily. Voluntary attrition makes force unnecessary (not that I’m against brute force, mind you).
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Gig
you are confusing me with 17 year old Mandy.
I’m not an anti- Semite. My grandmother was a Jew and I can appreciate a lot of good in Judaism. But I know that some unflattering stereotypes are sometimes true.
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@mandybeenhereawhile:
“But I know that some unflattering stereotypes are sometimes true.”
This is true for all groups.
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Well, I see the gang’s all here.
I too saw the recent Obama Healthcare Press Conference the other night on tv, and saw/heard his response to the Skip Gates controversey; up until that time, I wasn’t even aware of it, busy as I am tending to legal and business matters over the past week or so.
But when I learned a bit of what the hub bub was all about…well, I’ll just put it this way.
My problem w/racial profiling is that for some strange and odd reason, many Whites (not all) seem unable, or indeed unwilling, to distinguish Blacks who appear safe, harmless and law-abiding, and Blacks who appear fearsome, could make trouble for others, and are law-breaking.
For example, taking myself to illustrate the point, I’ve been out and about meeting my advisors on various matters; in no way do I look like a gangbanger, criminal, thug, drug dealer, etc. And *yet*, its quite possible that I too could wind up like Skip Gates, locked up or worse, on some dumb ish.
Its happened to quite a few Black Men I’ve known over the years, none of whom looked or acted anything like Pookie & Ray-Ray. They were accomplished professionals in deportment and in fact.
There have been Black cops who were treated like Skip Gates.
As for Gates himself, I don’t have any axe to grind against him, nor do I necessarily carry a torch for him either; I’m rather neutral on the guy to tell the truth. I do recognize that he’s considered a leadin academic when it comes to Africana Studies out of Harvard…which brings me to something else…
All you (largely White guys) hating on th Academy and the way it works, you might as well stop right now, unless you willing, ready and able to get in the Mutha and make the needed changes. You can start w/the Tenure System, which basicaly guarantees that few if any academics/professors make any real gamechanging contributions to their fields. Anyone w/a scintilla of academic understanding knows well that most professors cease being productive once they get tenure, and the vast majority of professors have never worked in research, nor do they have any inclination to do so. That’s in ANY field.
So, to hate on Gates, as if he’s invented the Do-Nothing Professoriate, is a seriously laughable joke. Again, I don’t have a dog in the fight insofar as he’s concerned, I’m just sayin.
And one other thing…
DeTocqueville hit the nail on the head-Black folks may indeed see race a bit too much, but damn if White folks being in denial (publicly) about race, ie, “being colorblind” aint part of the problem too. Get this: America is a race-obsessed society, country, nation, polity. We are both nutured and bedeviled by it. That’s the truth, Ruth.
So, White folks might as well stop getting mad that Black folks have learned how to play the Great American Skin Game, too, and this especially goes for politics, which has always been a matter of ethnicity here in the States. The Irish, Germans, Italians, Poles, you name it, all of em played their hand at the game in big city politics, well, now it’s dem Darkies’ turn. You’ll just have to take it. Nothing pisses me off more than a bunch of crocodile tear weeping White guys who all of a sudden found their cajones when BLACK PEOPLE start doing the very same thing that different groups of White folk have been doing in this country for CENTURIES. A bigger conceit is harder to find.
As for Obama’s speaking out on the Gates’ thing, last time I heard he was an American citizen, and is entitled to his view. The People will decide if they’re cool w/that or not.
His prescriptions for Healthcare however, from all that I’ve been able to glean, I am not in agreement with.
Y’all holla back-The Obsidian has returned…
O
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>>“If authority figures take what they think are reasonable means to uphold societal respect, you end up in the gulag.”
—Chuck, you’re being reactionary. You’re posited a false choice, either gulag or freedom. This is a much more middle ground.
“I’ll call on pop philosophy and invoke the whole “slippery slope” argument.”
–Chuck, these laws have been in place since the Founding. In fact, your slippery slope goes the other way: we’ve removed a lot of barriers for people to act like idiots in the name of freedom. Quite frankly, your argument falls apart on that.
I thought it was obvious I was being sarcastic with the whole gulag thing, trying to copy the ridiculousness of the whole Broken Window thing. Guess not. Let me re-explain. It’s not that rich people should be given special privilege to scream, or that allowing cops to arrest angry people is going to result in a fascist state. Rather, I just wanted to say that this one incident is unlikely to foster in an era of crime in Gates’ neighborhood, a result I find as unlikely as you are to find the gulag.
>>—so again, you beliee people shoudl ahve the right to swear at, insult, and call racist anyone on the street at the top of their lungs with no repercussions?
Yes.
It’s not like there’s going to be NO repurcussions – his neighbors and colleagues are likely to treat him much more warily and perhaps even ostracize him after an incident like this. It’s not like screaming at a cop is smart or likely to result in a good outcome. But I don’t think he should be arrested. People shouldn’t be arrested when they’re not hurting anyone, restricting someone else’s rights, or destroying property. And none of those things happened. Simple as that.
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Obsidian,
I think both the Henry Gates episode and the Barbara Boxer/Alford episode are two sides of the same coin.
Whenever a black person gets a bit of misfortune, there is an entire industry set to cash in and play the victim. Borat Hussein Osama is part of this machine.
However, white leftists like Boxer really don’t think of black people as ‘people’ who can have the full array of opinions. Her condescencion towards an intelligent man like Harry Alford, is the real racism of today.
It is the LEFT that is racist, hence their need to project onto others. Sadly, most black people don’t see this, and thus vote 96% Democrat.
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Apeman,
I think the blind are those like yourself, when you attempt to argue that Black folk aren’t smart enough to know what their interests are. They know full well why they vote overwhelmingly Dem. Now, you can make the case that said interests/reasons are wrongheaded-like I do-but for you to try to make the argument you just made only serves to alienate even more Black folks.
You Conservatives, the White ones I mean, just don’t get it, do you? Browbeating folk aint gonna get it. You gotta woo em into it-just like you woo a Woman into your bed? Going Caveman rarely works, truth be told, and its the same deal in Politics, too.
Get a clue, brother.
O
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Fuck, I don’t know how to make it any clearer than that – there’s a fundamental human right to not be arrested by your government unless you’re harming someone else.
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Again, I see far more outrage about this HL Gates non-incident than about
1) The Duke Lacrosse case
2) The Pendleton Marine murder case
3) The 4 Oakland police murder case
Black victimologists have done exactly what feminists have done.
It would be wise for black men to see themselves as men first, and fight feminism, rather than as blacks first, to extort from the white man.
Soon, white men will have had enough. The only question is, who gets their deserved punishment first – feminists or black victimologists?
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Apeman,
My ONLY job is to live a productive life and to be recognized as an individual, that I either rise or fall on my own merits or the lack thereof. In no way will I allow myself to have to answer for the actions of others, no matter how much they may resemble me. The Rights of the Individuals is a Sin Qua Non of the American Way.
Secondly…
Fact: violent crime of all kinds have gone down, accordin to FBI stats. This is due largely to two reasons: one, because Black criminals are being locked up in larger numbers and for longer sentences; and two, because Black criminals tend to murder other Black criminals, by and large. Watch The Wire, you’ll understand.
As for Black Women not being profiled as much, you’re right. All that says is, like White Women, Black Women don’t as a rule tend to commit violent crimes as much as do White and Black Men comparitively speaking. *shrugs*
Lastly…
Again, there have been Black cops who’ve been treated like Skip Gates. And as I’ve said, I’ve known Black professionals, quite older than myself, who were also treated like Gates, sans his alleged “Yo Mama” remarks, in other words, these Brothas were cool, calm and collected and they were still given the Gates treatment.
O
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there’s a fundamental human right to not be arrested by your government unless you’re harming someone else.
The problem with libertarianism has always been in defining what constitutes harm. Which is one of the reasons libertarianism is so incoherent.
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Apeman,
As for your argument that Black Men should be out there decrying the evils of Feminism, they have, for quite some time, and long before the MGTOW thing came along-it’s called Hip Hop.
Give it a listen.
O
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Black folk aren’t smart enough to know what their interests are. They know full well why they vote overwhelmingly Dem.
You may wish that this were the case, but clearly it is not.
Blacks still approve of Obama 97%. Whites + Hispanics + Asians only approve 43%. No white, Hispanic, or Asian politican will ever get a 97% approval rating from his OWN race. Period.
Blacks are far more race obsessed than any other race. You know this – hell, you call yourself ‘Obsidian’, rather than simply Mu’Min.
Blacks, evidently, are not familiar with Robert Byrd, George Wallace, etc. All were prominent well after the Nixonian ‘southern strategy’.
No matter what Obama does, his approval rating among blacks will never drop below 95%. You know as well as I that this cannot possibly be the result of rational analysis. Admit it.
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@Obsidian:
A lot of social theorists peg lowering crime rates as a corollary of abortion. Not that those other factors you mentioned don’t have anything to do with it.
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Obsidian,
I know you read this question, so answer it :
Please reconcile for us your highly astute understanding of feminist victim-card-playing extortion, vs. your inability to admit that black victim-card playing is exactly the same thing.
Precisely what is the difference between HL Gates, Rev. Wright, Jesse Jackson, etc. vs. Gloria Steinem, Andrea Dworkin, Catharine MacKinnon, etc.?
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@GNPs are for Apes:
What do you think contributes to blacks being disproprotionately fixated on race?
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Obsidian:
Steve Sailer has noted that the best way to keep racial profiling from coming down too hard on law abiding blacks is not to dispense with stereotyping, but to get better at stereotyping. For example, police should be taught how to distinguish between how middle class blacks dress and act and how potentially criminal blacks dress and act. Smarter stereotypes, not no stereoptypes.
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S.,
Yes, I’m familiar w/the Abortion lowerin (Black) Crime argument, and I’ve read a number of dissenters, among them, Sailer. I really don’t have a dog in the fight one way or another, because the fact remains that we lockup more Black criminals than we ever have, as well as the fact that Blac folk kill Black folk more than anyone else, no matter how much the socalled “Pro White” guys wanna jump up and down.
Apeman,
Yea, Black folks support Obama overwhelmingly. This is the first time they *could* support one of their own. So?
O
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Roissy and many others on here defending over-reaching state power?! State power that allows a man to be arrested on what appears to be a BS charge for doing nothing wrong? Has the world gone topsy-turvy?
So, which ranks highest in your ideology hierarchy? Less government and government intrusion in people’s lives, identifying with “alphas”, or sticking it to the SWPL/PC/Left crowd?
Judging from this thread it looks like the latter two are tied in your minds.
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I repeat again : The numbers say it all.
Barack Obama (half-black) gets a 97% approval rating from blacks.
Rudy Giuliani would never get a 97% approval rating from Italian-Americans in New York
Bobby Jindal would never get a 97% approval rating from Indians.
Joe Lieberman or Diane Feinstein would never get a 97% approval rating from Jews.
Bill Richardson or Cruz Bustamante or Antonio Villaraigosa would never get a 97% approval rating from Hispanics.
Elaine Chao would never get a 97% approval rating from Chinese women.
It is clear that only one race is so race-obsessed. This, you simply cannot deny, as the numbers do not lie.
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Thursday,
I don’t disagree w/Sailer in principle-however, where things breaks down for me, as I’ve mentioned earlier, is the simple fact that a lot of White folks simply cannot or will not make the distinction between a business-casual young Black Man like myself, and one who looks like Pookie on the corner of 22nd & Diamond. THAT’S what has to be addressed, for Sailer’s idea to work.
O
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Yea, Black folks support Obama overwhelmingly. This is the first time they *could* support one of their own. So?
Wait, if he is 50% white and 50% black, then he is no more ‘one of their own’ for blacks than for whites, correct?
Anyway, you have admitted that blacks are the most race-obsessed of all groups.
We are effectively carrying an African dictatorship of 38 million (about the size of Kenya or Uganda) within our borders, with all the violence, dysfuction, underachievement, and lack of civilization that entails.
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I feel at this time a little bit like Rodney King in an interview when he said, more or less, “Can’t we all get along.”
See, I don’t blame the cop for arresting a guy (of any race) who starts acting crazy in the middle of the night in the presence of the cops. Put yourself in his shoes. He had no way of knowing just how crazy the dude is going to get. If he walks away and the then mister crazy man butchers a passerby that does not look good either.
I don’t blame L. Gates for getting angry. There is a reason he was on hair trigger. OTOH, it is never ever the right thing to do to go crazy on a cop in after the sun has gone down. He acted stupid even though he is not. Thing is, he was almost certainly drunk. So, points off.
I do not blame POTUS Obama for wanting to say what he did but next time maybe he will take the time to learn more about REALLY HAPPENED before making himself and his office look silly and wrong.
Have you ever heard, “Think it, don’t say it”? At least until you know for sure
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Apeman,
If I recall, there have been quite a few Italian candidates at all levels of US gov’t, yes? How many Blacks have been able to run for Governor, US Senator, POTUS? Yea, I thought so.
Blacks’ overwhelming support for Obama is w/o question *racial*, but in no way *racist*. There’s a big difference. Learn it.
As for your other question, its irrelevant as to whether Black do or don’t reject what McWhorter called “victimology”-when it comes to crime and fighting it, the bottomline is, if you do the crime and you got popped, chances are very high you’re getting heavy time. And that’s what’s important in our discussion-you like to note who commits the crime, and I like to note what’s actually being done about it, which in turn is reflected in the lowering of violent crime accross the board per FBI crime stats.
Period.
Next question?
O
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is the simple fact that a lot of White folks simply cannot or will not make the distinction between a business-casual young Black Man like myself, and one who looks like Pookie on the corner of 22nd & Diamond.
Projection. Whites DO make that distinction (which is why they see black men and women differently, as well as white people being fans of Bill Cosby). White people defend Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas all day long.
It is blacks who see every basic human impediment as ‘racism’. And it shows.
You are being incredibly dishonest here, and you know it.
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i affe
“Roissy and many others on here defending over-reaching state power?! State power that allows a man to be arrested on what appears to be a BS charge for doing nothing wrong? Has the world gone topsy-turvy?”
when you spot a contradiction–check your premises first. i don’t believe any libertarian (and i’ve been one my entire adult life)believes you can act like a raving lunatic and refuse to cooperate with police conducting a legitimate investigation. maybe some other libertarian can set me straight on that
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I_Affe,
The vast majority of people on this blog want to
1] Live in a dreamland where white is right and in control.
2] They are the accepted leaders.
3] After 1] and 2], maintain status quo till the end of time.
Not unlike a kid who wants unlimited icecream, victory in every game and perpetual control over the world.
Sadly, they mistook the status of whites from 1850-1950 as manifest destiny. The emerging reality troubles them, and frankly- I do not care.
It is fun to watch though…
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Many (at least a significant minority of whites) do not… and that is the problem.
“Projection. Whites DO make that distinction (which is why they see black men and women differently, as well as white people being fans of Bill Cosby). White people defend Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas all day long.”
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@GNPs are for Apes:
I totally agree with the statistics you are bringing up about fixation on race blacks seem to have.
I’m just wondering why this is present disproportionately amongst blacks and not other races… Anyone care to venture?
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Apeman,
No, fact from my own and many other Black lives. You actually need to spend more time around and among Black folk before you deign to opine. It’s always better to actually know what you’re talking about before you open your mouth.
The fact that many Whites adore the Blacks you name only highlights many of their cognitive dissonance. Many of those same Whites will instinctively move into a corner of an elevator when a business casually-dressed young Black Man steps into said elevator, or when one of said Whites, as a cop, makes a traffic stop w/said Black Man, and so on.
There have been all kinds of studies done on this, I think, if memory serves, Standford did one too. Look it up.
O
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How many Blacks have been able to run for Governor, US Senator, POTUS?
A lot, actually. At all levels. HL Gates lives under a black mayor, a black Governor, and a black President.
Blacks’ overwhelming support for Obama is w/o question *racial*, but in no way *racist*. There’s a big difference. Learn it.
There isn’t a difference. It is called ‘race obsession’. As I analytically pointed out, no other race or ethnicity is so raced obsessed as to give a 97% approval to someone just for being of their group.
It is actually pretty dumb, since Obama has exactly the same racial affinity with blacks as with whites (you do know that he is half and half, don’t you)?
You won’t see Jews, Italians, Indians, Hispanics, or Chinese going 97% for anyone from their respective groups. And you know it.
And this is the reason blacks underperform all other races economically, everywhere in the world (even where whites do not exist). Bill Cosby gets it. Someday, you might too.
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For example, police should be taught how to distinguish between how middle class blacks dress and act and how potentially criminal blacks dress and act.
This is a red herring. As I argued before, white Americans have a very finely tuned thug-dar. We IMMEDIATELY assess a black guy for potential trouble. And we rate close to 99% of non-ghetto blacks as completely harmless.
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Seekinf alpha
Well that isn’t true either. The history of Jews in Christian Europe is not a happy one. We learn about how “anti-semitic” the Christian Europeans for years in the public schools. Trouble is we never hear the other side of that, coin Anti-Semitism in Europe did not arise in a vacuum
Jews and Christian Europeans do not live well side by side. If you view this as hateful that is your opinion. But it is simply not true that these groups have positive feelings toward each other.
Would you argue that most Israeli Jews and Muslim Palestinians are tolerant of each other?
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You actually need to spend more time around and among Black folk before you deign to opine.
Projection again. It is you who has to spend time with other races, to see that no other race or ethnicity is so race-obsessed, as to approve 97% of someone of their own race based on race, rather than actions.
I have provided statistical facts. You provide mere fantasy.
Many of those same Whites will instinctively move into a corner of an elevator when a business casually-dressed young Black Man steps into said elevator,
Simply not true. Rather, it is that business casual black who imagines this, due to his race obsession.
Precisely what is the difference between HL Gates, Rev. Wright, Jesse Jackson, etc. vs. Gloria Steinem, Andrea Dworkin, Catharine MacKinnon, etc.?
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Here are a few questions-
1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?
2] Ever read ‘Dread Vs Scott’ – the supreme court judgement?
3] Ever had been a member of community that was targeted for public lynchings as late as the mid 1940s?
4] Ever been denied service because if your skin color (until the late 1960s)
5] Used as slave labor- first as slaves and then as prisoners? (read a little on the post civil-war south)
6] Consistently represented in the media as subhuman?
7] Treated poorly because of what you are, not how you dress.
And you expect them to play nice.. are you nuts?
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Bingo!! If middle class blacks were treated as true equals, we would not be having this discussion.
“Many of those same Whites will instinctively move into a corner of an elevator when a business casually-dressed young Black Man steps into said elevator, or when one of said Whites, as a cop, makes a traffic stop w/said Black Man, and so on.”
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There was only one time I ever recall being made nervous by blacks. One time my o m e g a friend Ace and I drove into West Baltimore (don’t ask; we had a good & legit reason for it). I’m talking, sheetmetal shantytown-shy of streets of Ghana. I’m talking places Mr. Kurtz and Dr. Livingstone never made it to.
Ace goes into a place of business on a side street, and I wait in the parked car. And one by one, black ghetto teenagers are clustering up near the car. Being loud and animated in a normal way, but also “noticing” me sittin gin that car.
Somethign about the vibe made me uneasy. Not exactly sure what. But this was the only time I ever felt nervous around blacks.
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Dana,
People often don’t hold completely true to their professed ideologies. They’ll make exceptions, excuses, rationalizations, etc. It’s nothing too horrible; most people do it. I just want to find out what the posters’ reasons are for deviating from the conservative belief of less government power.
Oh and until I see some more evidence about Gates’ behavior (which most likely was disrespectful towards the officer), then there must be a pretty low bar for being considered a raving lunatic.
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Speak for yourself, Apeman. Roissy for example is a stone’s throw away from the richest per capita Black area in the entire country, Prince George’s County, MD.
Secondly, while its true that Gate’s lives under Black Guv, Mayor and POTUS, ITS THE FIRST TIME IN USA HISTORY THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED. There have been far and away more Jews, Italians, etc et al in these posts than Black. Starting from Reconstruction, count em up. Start w/US Senators, then we’ll move to Guvs, and then finally POTUS. How many Black have there been in more than a century? You make the call.
Whites overwhelmingly support their own, and since you wanna bring up Rudy, when he ran against Dinkins, guess who got the lion’s share of NYC’s White-including Italian-vote? Yup, you guessed it, NOT Dinkins-who was seen by ERRBODY as a “concilliatory” Black.
Next question?
O
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Obsidian,
I am not black, but if my ancestors were treated like that – I would not play nice. That is for sure!
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1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?
Yep. Most countries had slavery during this time. Only 5% of black slaves from Africa came to what is now the US, you know. Most went to Brazil and the Caribbean.
3] Ever had been a member of community that was targeted for public lynchings as late as the mid 1940s?
Are you aware of Nazi Death Camps and the Japanese genocide against the Chinese in WW2? How about Saddam’s gassing of Kurds in the 1990s?
4] Ever been denied service because if your skin color (until the late 1960s)
The same applied to Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans at that time. You don’t see them sulking about it to this day.
5] Used as slave labor- first as slaves and then as prisoners? (read a little on the post civil-war south)
Yep, see point 1)
6] Consistently represented in the media as subhuman?
I think you mean ‘Superhuman’. The media deification of Obama is far more than virtually any white person has received in our lifetimes. No white person with such a pathetic resume would ever become Senator, let alone President.
7] Treated poorly because of what you are, not how you dress.
Blacks are treated better than whites, in this regard.
All your points show that blacks have not had it worse than any other race, on a worldwide level, and in modern times, actually have it better than whites.
The proof lies in this simple fact :
If America is so bad for blacks, why are NONE of them leaving to go to ANY other country in the world? Why is there, in fact, net migration INTO America of black people (from the West Indies, Africa, etc.)
No blacks leaving, but a lot coming in. Yeah, America sure is bad for black people.
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Many of those same Whites will instinctively move into a corner of an elevator when a business casually-dressed young Black Man steps into said elevator,
I ride elevators – and the metro – with business-dressed professional blacks every single day, and I treat them no differently from any other professional person. They set off no “instinctive” reaction, they do not alarm me.
Whites overwhelmingly support their own,
Actually, they don’t. Blacks would still be slaves if they did. Blacks would never, ever have obtained any freedom whatsoever, let alone the vast progress in civil rights since 1965, if they did. A great many whites today (the SWPL types) despise lower-class racist whites, or at least the whites the SWPL types think are racists. There is no quicker way to reduce your social status in polite white circles than to say something overtly racist.
Can whitey have a little credit, please?
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— 1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?
Mine were targetwed for genocide in the last 70 years. My non-Jewish great grandmother was gassed in Majdanek.
— 2] Ever read ‘Dread Vs Scott’ – the supreme court judgement?
That’s the one non-bunnies & unicorns chapter of my high school history book, right?
— 3] Ever had been a member of community that was targeted for public lynchings as late as the mid 1940s?
My community is targeted for lynching today. In Knoxville and elsewhere
— 4] Ever been denied service because if your skin color (until the late 1960s)
I’ve seen lots of signs that say (paraphrasing) “white males need not apply.”
— 5] Used as slave labor- first as slaves and then as prisoners? (read a little on the post civil-war south)
See item 1. Also my wife’s still-living immediate relative worked as slave labor in Germany.
— 6] Consistently represented in the media as subhuman?
See a Taco Bell commercial lately?
— 7] Treated poorly because of what you are, not how you dress.
I try to avoid getting a flat tire in Southeast DC.
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I answer your strawman question, Apeman:
Because Black folks marched, and prayed, and shed blood for this country, to make it a better place, and other Blacks around the world want in on that. Simple.
Listen, Apeman-I know it deeply bothers you that so many Black folks support Obama. But that’s just the way it is, my friend. Now come on, lemme buy you a Coke…
O
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O,
Black criminals are extremely dangerous to approach.
How many times have you read stories wherein the violence put upon their victim was just senseless and extreme?
Like shooting some guy who has no money to give when you rob them. They do that to send a message.
Or killing a witness to a crime for $200?
Or publicly threatening, in the courthouse, the entire jury, while you are on trial?
Robbing a women and then just raping her because.
Look how brutal O.J.’s killing of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman were. Notice how blacks applauded his acquittal.
Bashing white faces with cinder blocks (First Rodney King trial) and pool cues (I think H. Rap Brown was speaking in town and the blacks were agitated).
Throwing a baby out the window of a car you hijacked, or dragging her mother to death when she gets her clothes caught in the car door.
Black males are big and muscular and very dangerous. My daughter’s ex-boyfriend had permanent and serious injuries because, as a male nurse, he tried to protect a female nurse from a black male patient who turned violent in the ER (cocaine.) How you would like confronting a cocaine enraged and homicidal 6 foot 4 black male, 280 pounds, just out of prison wherein he spent his time lifting weights? If you didn’t kill him, he would certainly try to kill you, for absolutely no reason, and he could kill you with his bare hands.
In the ER’s in Baltimore, the first thing they do when they bring in shooting victim is have the police guard the doors because the shooters will follow him into the ER to finish him off and anybody else in their way.
How about in Baltimore when a cop stopped two blacks in a car for a routine matter, walked up to the car, and got shot once or twice in the chest by the black passenger. Turned out the car had been stolen, but who but a black thief would think killing the cop, in broad daylight, was a good career move? (Cop survived and arrested them. He had a bullet proof vest.)
God, sometimes these thugs shoot it out with the cops in broad day light. This never ends good for them.
These guys think they are some tough criminals, but their actions are so dumb and violent they mostly wind up in jail, but not before they hurt or kill somebody, often a number of somebodies.
That is the reality of life here in Baltimore. I am amazed that white guys will go into a police force wherein they have to confront and control such dangerous thugs on a daily basis. Those guys have balls.
So, the elephant in the room with all this racial profiling complaining is that black males deserve to be profiled.
Now, what about Gates? If you were investigating a house break in and there were two black men in the house when you get there and the door busted open, what would you think? How many blacks live in this neighborhood? If Gates had been a robber, and being black, you would have to assume he would just shoot the cop when he came to the door. I think Gates is lucky to be alive.
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Whites overwhelmingly support their own,
Wrong. Apparently you didn’t notice that John McCain did not get 97% of the white vote, the way Borat Hussein Osama got 97% of the black vote.
Do you actually understand numbers? Surely your school taught math, when you were a kid.
guess who got the lion’s share of NYC’s White-including Italian-vote? Yup, you guessed it, NOT Dinkins-who was seen by ERRBODY as a “concilliatory” Black.
Source, please. Far more whites voted for Dinkins than blacks voted for Rudy.
You are being incredibly, incredibly dishonest here. The victim card is lucrative, and you are identical to the most strident feminist. Some introspection will do you good.
and POTUS, ITS THE FIRST TIME IN USA HISTORY THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED.
Wrong again. Thurgood Marshall was there on the SC since the 60s. Other black mayors and congressmen have also been there since the 60s.
Actually, Warren G. Harding was black, as per the one-drop rule. Why not count him too, when Obama, who is just 50% black, can be worshipped by the race-obsessed black community?
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As I argued before, white Americans have a very finely tuned thug-dar. We IMMEDIATELY assess a black guy for potential trouble. And we rate close to 99% of non-ghetto blacks as completely harmless.
Translation: You have a finely tuned thug-dar. You immediately assess a black guy for potential trouble. And you rate close to 99% of non-ghetto blacks as completely harmless.
You seem highly intelligent and perceptive, but the average person is not. My experience is that the average person’s stereotyping is often quite crude.
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GNPs are for Apes,
I do not think you realize it, but the ‘time’ for your kind is up. The future, even the near future, has many unpleasant surprises for your kind and their beliefs.
Do you think that your “system” has any gas left? It has been running on fumes since the 1980s. I think you should be more concerned about how your system will exist in a few years… hint- it cannot exist in any form similar to the current one.
Hope that your kind don’t end on reservations. They are not going anywhere, but you are certainly looking at a very dark future.. pun intended.
“If America is so bad for blacks, why are NONE of them leaving to go to ANY other country in the world?”
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Tarl,
I was speaking in electoral politics terms-Whites tend to vote White, for the most part. Sure, Whites have and probably will continue to vote for Non-White candidates, but you can’t tell me that in cases like Daly of Chitown, or Rudy of NYC, that White folks didn’t vote at least in part based on what they perceived as these Men sharing their interests w/them over the other candidates-and you know what? I’m completely cool with that.
That’s what politics and the vote is all about-choosing your guy or gal who you thinks will most lookout for your interests. That’s it.
O
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— 1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?
Well, there was a very active slave trade for white Christians and Black animists during the entire era of Muslim domination, since Muslims cannot make slaves of Muslims. Slave ships went as far North as Ireland. Cervantes, for example, spent time as a slave in North Africa. The Ottoman Empire (The Turks), of course, used Christian slaves (taken from Greece and Eastern Europe) to make up their army.
Slavery is as old as civilization, and it continues still in, gasp, Africa.
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@gig-
Not that you give a damn, but I have no beef with any man’s religion.
It is only when someone uses religion as an excuse to harm someone else, that I oppose it.
Jew, christian, muslim, buddhist, atheist… These are terms some people use to divide us.
I am much more interested in uniting men.
If I could initiate a pogrom, it would be against ’empowered’ women and the suck-ass politicians who enable them.
Religion and race, for me, are not accurate indicators of who I should hate.
@Obsidian-
Man I want to be with you, but I think you are guilty of doing the same things that you decry in others:
“You Conservatives, the White ones I mean, just don’t get it, do you?”
Don’t fall into the trap of dividing men based on the pigmentation of their skin, like some of the HBD advocates do.
It’s wrong when they do it, it’s wrong when you do it. (If you want me to call out some asshole that uses HBD to demean black people, just point me in the right direction.)
There is NO VALUE in calibrating your behavior towards a man based on some arbitrary physical characteristic. (skin color, eye color, ear shape, it is irrelevant)
All real men, must unite.
That we are divided is really the only thing keeping us from correcting the malfunctions, that we all agree, beset our culture and our country.
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@Thursday:
I don’t think most people’s steotyping of blacks are crude. As a woman who is half-brown, I have no problem with most middle to upper-middle class blacks, whites, Indians, Asians, Hispanics, etc. When I do get intimidated it’s because of a general manner of behaviour: dress, posturing, crassness, etc. It’s pretty much grouping people of low-income together, as opposed to people of average to high-come, not a matter of race. A black man who is dressed in a golf shirt and slacks is NOT intimidating, except to maybe people of another generation. My boyfriend’s 80-something grandmother calls me an “Indian beauty” and even though this is probably perceived as exoticization by some, I find it harmless because I understand where it comes from generationally.
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I was speaking in electoral politics terms-Whites tend to vote White, for the most part.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.
What percentage of whites voted for Obama vs. blacks voting for McCain?
I demand you do the research and provide the answer, Obsidian. Be a man, and provide the actual percentages.
Plus, black conservatives (Rice, Thomas, Blackwell, Steele) are supported more by whites than by blacks. You are too much of a dishonest coward to admit this.
But provide the ACTUAL PERCENTAGES from the 2008 Presidential election. Show us that you have some respect to statistical facts.
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Apeman, your moving the goalposts again, as is your way to do. I said how many Black US Senators, Governors and Presidents have there been since the end of the Civil War? You answer me that and I’ll answer your questions.
O
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1] Have your ancestors been sold as property in the last 400 years?
My great-grandparents were indentured servants. My grandparents worked hard to build a life for themselves and to educate their children (my aunts, uncles, and own parents). My parents both have university degrees and lead an upper-middle class life today. Getting trapped in a narrativeof victimhood is no excuse. And in fact, is more belittling than otherwise.
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Well that wasn’t hard:
Joel-
“Black criminals are extremely dangerous to approach.”
No more dangerous than white criminals, or asian criminals, or American Indian criminals.
I’d much rather share a cell with O.J. than Dennis Rader.
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Apeman,
I don’t recall ever arguing the contrary wrt Rice, Thomas, Sowell, etc. Yet another strawman, lol. Black folk don’t like these people, for the simple reason that they see them as antithetical to their interests and what’s more, as sellouts. Period.
As for the last election, yup, Obama got a lot of White votes. But this is the first time a Black candidate had a real shot at winning. Prior to that, White folks weren’t seriously considering a Black candidate, which don’t bother me one bit. Why you’re getting so huffy and puffy about the matter is at turns fascinating and puzzling to me.
O
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Sucking white dick again? Can you not find a less pathetic way to identify yourself as an honorary white?
“Getting trapped in a narrativeof victimhood is no excuse. And in fact, is more belittling than otherwise.”
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@Lucifer:
I’m not. I don’t even identify as white, because when people see me they don’t see someone who’s white. My great-grandparents on my Indian side were indentured servants.
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AJ,
My point was that often, the GOP doesn’t consider the bigger picture here. There are many Blacks who really don’t agree w/the Dems when pressed to actually think about their positions, but the GOP is basically tonedeaf when it comes to these things. And they’re in real trouble because of it too-on the one hand they can’t reach out and get fresh blood, and on the other they’re increasingly being seen as the Party of Disaffected Angry Old(er) White Guys. They need to get serious about making the case for Conservative values/ideas to ALL Americans.
That’s all I’m sayin. And thanks for the help on the HBD thing.
O
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And the hits just keep on coming:
Joel-
“Black males are big and muscular and very dangerous.”
Did you really just type that.
Come on man.
The physicality of the black man is as varied as that of any other race.
Some are bigger than you, some are smaller.
It’s statements like this, that encourage people like Gates make their stupid statements.
Sorry Joel, you are just going to have to get over your irrational fear of dark skin pigmentation.
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I found it Seeking Alpha.
Earl Raab said:”
The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country.
We have been nourishing the American climate of opposition to ethnic bigotry for about half a century. That climate has not yet been perfected, but the heterogeneous nature of our population tends to make it irreversible and makes our constitutional constraints against bigotry more practical than ever. [890]”
I stand corrected that he was a rabbi, though. Apparently he wasn’t
Obsidian
Whites do not support their own. We have longstanding cultural war:
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you can’t tell me that in cases like Daly of Chitown, or Rudy of NYC, that White folks didn’t vote at least in part based on what they perceived as these Men sharing their interests w/them over the other candidates-and you know what? I’m completely cool with that.
Nah. I think most people vote party and ideology, not race. That’s why I don’t understand why there aren’t more black politicians who run as Republicans. There are tons of whites who’ll pull the lever for anyone with an R next to his name.
Last election, whites around here (northern VA) were bending over backwards to “vote against their interests” – how do you explain that? Obviously, Obama could never have been elected without lots of whites who “betrayed their race”, right? My explanation for that is that whites do not, in fact, vote for the candidate who “shares their racial interest”.
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Obsidian-
Agreed, the GOP has it’s head way up it’s ass. They are no better than the Dems in terms of wanting to divide us.
They are just far less effective in doing so.
@Lucifer-
Did you stop your meds?. Maybe you and Joel can sit down over a cup of coffee and work out your issues.
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Tarl,
Big city politics has always been about competing ethnic groups fighting for the spoils. Here in Philly, you had Italians duking it out w/the Irish, the two largest White ethnic groups in the city historically. And both got to be Mayor in recent history-Green, then Rizzo.
And then came along Goode when Blacks were able to really start flexing their collective political muscle.
That’s just the way of big city politics in America, Tarl. Black folk didn’t create the system, they just learned how to play it-and as is often the case, do it better than many White guys.
O
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”””””””””’Lucifer
I_Affe,
The vast majority of people on this blog want to
1] Live in a dreamland where white is right and in control.
2] They are the accepted leaders.
3] After 1] and 2], maintain status quo till the end of time.
Not unlike a kid who wants unlimited icecream, victory in every game and perpetual control over the world.
Sadly, they mistook the status of whites from 1850-1950 as manifest destiny. The emerging reality troubles them, and frankly- I do not care.
It is fun to watch though…”””””””””””
Well whites will be the first to achieve perfect war.
Yet yea they will probably show mercy.
Then the next one to achieve it won’t
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Glad to see we’re still hammering away at all hours here at Roissy.
What have I missed?
Roissy was still tossing around traitor. It’s nice to get attention from our host, although I wonder if he isn’t just a touch too sensitive on the traitor issue.
I will spawn six Republicans like myself (and a converted wife) who will vote for lower taxes and smaller government – even if we don’t believe in their immigration policy – and contribute mightily to both total and per capita GDP.
Roissy will leech off the hard work of his fellow countrymen, exclaiming the entire time that he is on the side of Western Civilization while taking no real world actions of his own to stem its decline.
What else did I miss
I believe the Polish PA was talking about creamy skin, nordic grace and blue eyes. I am 50% all three. Italian immigrants are none of the three and his ancestors are Slavs.
Sadly that means my children – while only possessing those qualities in a quarter of their blood – will still be more like ‘white American teens’ than PAs coming child or Roissys (likely never coming) child.
Is that self-hatred or just a poorly framed argument on their part?
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I said how many Black US Senators, Governors and Presidents have there been since the end of the Civil War?
Quite a few. Probably a greater proportion, population adjusted, than Hispanic or Asians.
In recent years, black politicans of note have been:
Lynn Swann, Kenneth Blackwell, Michael Steele, JC Watts, David Paterson, Deval Ptrick, Carol Moseley Braun, Roland Burris, Harold Ford Jr, Willie Brown, Michael White (mayor of Cleveland), David Dinkins, Maxine Waters, John Conyers, Charlie Rangel, William (freezer) Jefferson, etc.
The Supreme Court has always had 11% black representation for the past 42 years.
So there are clearly far more black elected officials, than Hispanics or Asians, adjusting for population. So blacks are clearly over-represented relative to Hispanics and Asians. You should be striving to increase Hispanic and Asian representation, by that logic.
If your point is that blacks were underrepresented before 1970, but now well represented, we can agree. So then quit whining, as full representation was acheived 40 years ago. Every complaint you have is 40 years obsolete.
OK, I answered your question. Now go do the homework of providing the percentages I requested. It should only take a few minutes.
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SA don’t be an obtuse idiot. Italians are white while aboriginal 88 IQ non-European people you think will be a fine replacement for white teens in a traditionally white country are not.
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Lucifer,
You are clearly extremely low IQ. I demolished each one of your uneducated points, and you were left stumped and stunned. You’ve got nothing.
Simple question, which you are too much of a coward to answer :
“If America is so bad for blacks, why are NONE of them leaving to go to ANY other country in the world?”
Because in America, blacks have it far, far too good. That’s way?
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What’s surreal is that I’m trying to make a case to a Population Replacement profiteer for not being ethnically cleansed from my own country.
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Tarl,
My explanation for that is that whites do not, in fact, vote for the candidate who “shares their racial interest”.
Yep. This is what Obese-dian cannot admit. It drives him nuts that whites are not as race obsessed as blacks are.
Now let’s see if he can do the research on electoral percentages that he agreed to do.
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SA don’t be an obtuse idiot.
I’m not being obtuse. My goal is to show how difficult it is to couch your goals in racial terms.
What did you mean by creamy skin and blue eyes that somehow included an Italian? Did you not mean to be so specific?
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Big city politics has always been about competing ethnic groups fighting for the spoils… That’s just the way of big city politics in America, Tarl.
I believe the point of this discussion is that whitey is not “acting ethnic”, i.e. voting his skin color, and in fact black success in most US cities and states results from white voters voting for blacks in significant numbers.
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You are being an obtuse jerkoff. Do you have a problem with Nordic-looking people? (I’m dark-featured by the way, not blonde).
Your idiotic comment earlier was that brown immigrants will make a fine replacement for white teenagers. I called your bullshit by using a Nordic ‘exteme’ of the European phenotype as an example of something non-Europeans will never be.
It is no more difficult to argue for the preservation of one’s country in racial terms than it is to argue for not replacing your mother or your sister with strangers.
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mandy been here a while
Go back and read your T.R.Fehrenbach. Check out the latest , recent edition of “Lone Star.”
It is quite true that the Scots-Irish white-trash border scum did most of the heavy lifting in the time of western expansion. Most of the time their gains were eventually co-opted or finessed by the better born , more gentile folk with Anglican pedigrees.
Except in Texas. The Texas Revolution – from the bloody Alamo to the bloody San Jacinto – still stands as a singular exception to that melancholy pattern. The red haired blue eyed freaks for once won a war and a country.
In the late 1930s the legislature of the State of Texas passed a resolution informing Charles Limberg that he was no longer welcome in that state because of his anti-semitic and anti-American statements.
There is a lot to contemplate here.
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Chuck:
“Fuck, I don’t know how to make it any clearer than that – there’s a fundamental human right to not be arrested by your government unless you’re harming someone else.”
—Chuck, don’t start talking about fundamental rights. They don’t exist.
Rights don’t come from anywhere but the government under which you live. There is no “fundamental right” outside of that, because, for a right to exist, it must be protected by the government. No government to protect a right, no right exists.
Appeals to natural law fail (natural law being where most “fundamental rights” arguments come from) because they are 1) too intellectual unrigorous and 2) require religious belief to soem degree.
This, of course, runs counter to our own founding fathers view—they basically declared that the reason they could secede from England was because George III violated natural rights (granted by God). But a better argument might be efficiency—George III’s actions punished the colonies for the homeland, discencentivizing production and development, and artificially kept the colonies economically subserviant to the homeland.
Be that as it may, there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that states you have a fundamental right to not be arrested for not “harming” someone else. Heck, people who harm animals and cut down trees illegally face jail time, and people are arrested for speeding when they haven’t hit anyone. Shouting in public like a maniac hurts people with noise pollution and fear, two destructive elements, although the harm is generalized to a degree.
You don’t have a fundamental right to anything, Chuck. You only have the rights enumerated in the Constitution (and various state constitutions). if you want more, get an amendment passed. otherwise, you’re just using rhetoric in place of logic.
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Of course I don’t have a problem with them. I’m Nordic looking myself.
was that brown immigrants will make a fine replacement for white teenagers
You’re getting angry and its clouding your reasoning. I never said that.
What are the two effects of immigration? Economic and cultural. If Hispanic teenagers are just like Italian teenagers or Polish teenagers in behavior and values then there is no CULTURAL difference.
There will be a racial difference.
Like there was when the English forefathers let my Irish and German ancestors in. And like there was when Irish and German ancestors let your Slavic ancestors in.
All I’m saying is that if we’re going to get racial (not cultural, but racial), let’s at least be honestly racial.
Maybe Slav > Hispanic. But Noridc > Slav. There isn’t a ‘white’ race. There’s a Nordic race, and its bastard children the Slavs, the Mediterraneans, and many others.
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http://www.playlist.com/whatreally
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So your type is gonna go extinct soon?
“Of course I don’t have a problem with them. I’m Nordic looking myself.”
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Crickets chirping as Obese-dian, who is normally very active at this hour, refuses to provide the easily-Googled data that would disprove his absurd claims.
Come on, boy, we are waiting…..
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GNPs are for Apes,
You will have to learn the hard way.. but I am enjoying the show.
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Yea shit is funny ain’t it lucifer.
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You still do not get it… do you?
Blacks have been the only group to experience it ALL, and in living memory.
Your type is on decline.. that is why you are screwed.
Whites made too many enemies (pretty much everyone wants your kind six feet under).. and have no advantage.
“I demolished each one of your uneducated points, and you were left stumped and stunned.”
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Lucifer
So who will the elite be in 50 years?
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Gunslingergregi,
Whites built a self-delusionary myth around their luck.. reality moved on.
They mistook winds of luck as evidence of their control over the weather. The winds have changed, and their ship is taking water. The problem is that nobody is gonna help them now.
Power built on “might is right” always ends this way… always has.
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Thank you Rum. I will have to check that out.
Seeking alpha your statements on the non existence of a European white race are absurd. Didn’t this Gates incident illuminate the fact that even non whites recognize people as belonging to the white race.
It really has nothing to do with being better than other ethnicities. It is about preserving one’s people. I know that Jews understand preserving the Jewish people. Why can’t we be left alone to preserve our people, too?
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Whites built a self-delusionary myth around their luck.. reality moved on.
They mistook winds of luck as evidence of their control over the weather. The winds have changed, and their ship is taking water. The problem is that nobody is gonna help them now.
Power built on “might is right” always ends this way… always has.
Lucifer, that’s your constant meme here. So who replaces them? Show some critical reasoning. It will be an essential skill for your future on top.
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Well they could exterminate
the planet
but they more than
likely won’t
someone else will
circle of life I suppose.
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Seeking Alpha,
Won’t be whites.. that is for sure.
Your best hope = inter-racials.
Your most likely fate = irrelevance
Worst fate = extinction
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Loserfer,
Both PA and I answered your questions with facts and logic (which you don’t have much experience with).
My demolition of your questions is here. Read it and weep.
You have been dealt utter humilation, by people who actually know about the world. And you know it.
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Seeking Alpha,
At this stage demography is enough..
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””””””””””Lucifer
Gunslingergregi,
Whites built a self-delusionary myth around their luck.. reality moved on.
They mistook winds of luck as evidence of their control over the weather. The winds have changed, and their ship is taking water. The problem is that nobody is gonna help them now.
Power built on “might is right” always ends this way… always has.”””””””””””””””””””
will not be that way in perfect war
because might will have total victory
there will be no weak to become strong
there will only be the strong
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Gunslingergregi,
Ever seen the animatrix?
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Lucifer
“They mistook winds of luck as evidence of their control over the weather. The winds have changed, and their ship is taking water. The problem is that nobody is gonna help them now.
”
we know. Guess 600,000 dead white men in the civil war
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Seeking alpha your statements on the non existence of a European white race are absurd.
150 years ago, an Englishmen would be offended to think a Sicilian or a German belonged to the same race.
Why can’t we be left alone to preserve our people, too?
Who is we? Race isn’t what you identify as. It’s a real, historical, scientifically categorized fact. And there is no scientific definition of ‘white’.
Who do you include? Germans? Spaniards? Basques? Italians? Sicilians? Greeks? Turks? Armenians? Poles? Russians? Georgians? Swedes?
These are not all one race.
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Gunslingergregi,
Development and spread of weapon technology + demography make that scenario unlikely.
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Lucifer
Won’t be whites.. that is for sure.
Your best hope = inter-racials.
Your most likely fate = irrelevance
Worst fate = extinction
So your people aren’t intelligent enough to speak beyond vague platitudes? You can’t give a real answer? Or you don’t have one?
Careful now. Once you’re in charge, you have to come up with real answers to the questions of the day. You can’t just spout nonsense attacking the status quo.
Hamas learned that the hard way. As did Obama and Pelosi.
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GNPs are for Apes,
Who is going to support your economic system (ponzi scheme).. think about that.
That factor, by itself, is enough to screw the west for good.
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? how so if us right now could take down nukes that other countries would launch they could exterminate the world.
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But you won’t be there, so it is irrelevant.
“Once you’re in charge, you have to come up with real answers to the questions of the day. You can’t just spout nonsense attacking the status quo.”
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Having an affirmative action race hustler without a birth certificate is a blessing for the USA.
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Gunslingergregi,
The strength of the west was it’s ability to innovate and an economic system that worked.. both competitive advantages are gone. Of course, people still think they exist..
Even if we leave it alone, the beast will consume itself..
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Lucifer–
Only due to altruism, greater than any other ethnicity’s, and sometimes/often now excessive. Competitive status jockeying altruism, of course.
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Okay, I’m sleepy. If my competition for the elite is Lucifer, I’m going to sleep peacefully. Physically fitter, mentally stronger.
And pretty blue eyes to boot.
Night all.
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Obsidian—
I wonder why a suburb of Washington DC, the seat of our federal government, would be the richest per capita black area in the country. Truly puzzling. Could it have anything to do with the massive amounts of affirmative action plus that the feds have long practices, and imposed on feeder businesses? Could it have anything to do with relatively high level government employment dominating over private employment in the city to which many commute?
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I wonder why a suburb of Washington DC, the seat of our federal government, would be the richest per capita black area in the country. Truly puzzling
BAM! I love it Doug.
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Obsidian—
Whites do tend to support their own, but they do so less than any other racial group. As well Anglos do so less than any other white ethnic group. They should probably do so more in fact, until other groups lower their own ethnocentrism.
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Lucifer—
Then maybe, just maybe, you and yours in that case should be racially profiled up the yin yang.
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Seeking Alpha,
I think we are looking at a changing balance of various groups, rather than one predominant one. The culture may be western, but the players might not look like you.
Asian countries will be much larger players in the upcoming world. South america and Africa have potential, but they have to stop screwing themselves.
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Seeking Alpha
“Who do you include? ”
I know a white person when I see them, no explanation about country of origin is needed.
Don’t be ridiculous, Turks, Georgians , Armenians are not white but Kalashas and Chechens are.
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”””””’doug1
Lucifer–
Your type is on decline.. that is why you are screwed.
Only due to altruism, greater than any other ethnicity’s, and sometimes/often now excessive. Competitive status jockeying altruism, of course.
”””””””””””
I agree but what was are savior will be our demise.
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doug1,
Much of what you think as altruism, was originally meant to benefit the west- it just did not turn out as planned.
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doug1,
There are more than a billion of us.. and we are not uneducated or religious nutters – if anything we are more secular than you.
We are more than a match for you.. and we have the right demography. You do not.
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india ain’t taking it
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The decline of the west came through feminism induced demographic and social changes.. enjoy the ride.
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Lucifer—
You’re an arrogant bullshiiter. The Euro West has been leading and dominating since way, way before then, and continues to do so to this day. To the extent that it doesn’t quite as much as earlier, it’s largely due to great amounts of recent Euro altruism towards other weaker peoples. Sometimes excessive altruism, when they become threatening, yet it persists, for now.
Further about six hundred years before the current Euro culture and peoples leadership and dominance began this go around, and for a thousand years before that, Greco Roman civilization intellectually lead (as in science, math and philosophy, and political philosophy and practice) and then ruled well over half the advanced world. Only China was at all competitive. Everywhere else lagged behind, especially places outside of the bordering Near East (i.e. Persia).
A number of areas of the world have contributed greatly to the advance, with retreats, of world knowledge, civilization and wealth. It’s not remotely all been from Euro or white areas, and in large parts of post agricultural history other areas have lead. many areas of the world have never lead however or much influenced other areas.
The industrial revolution, which not only occurred in Europe (specifically Britain and the Low countries) by far first, but was also long gestated there and nowhere else except by remote influences, was the engine that made so large a part of the world’s population rich. It began clearly by 1750 with some beginnings before. It’s twin roots were the development of large scale private capitalism, and systematic science and engineering, both thoroughly born in Europe. China did invent much, but it didn’t really do systematic science, or capitalism. It was too much an autocracy, or sometimes several of them.
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Gunslingergregi,
the last person standing takes it.. do you get it.. the last person standing! It could be anybody
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Yea true whoever get the anti mis first along with will to do it.
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I’m not envisioning india though they have there own problems with gay guys beating up straights and shit lol
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doug1,
The west went past the others as late as the 17th century.. and the real benefits of science came in the 1800s.. by the 1950s, technology had spread once again and the west lost it..
Technology spread because of white greed and hubris,not altruism.
Whites did not invent civilization.. you just picked up from where others left off.. and now we have picked up from where you have left off. Evolution in action!
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India is such a disorganized non linear mess before the Brits and before that the Muslims took over (well with some linear improvement nothing like after the Brits) that we’re only just recently piecing together decent histories of India, using almost entirely Western (British) methods.
Rather a feminine, more conquored than conquoring civilization.
But full of riches, spices, and textiles classically it’s true. And some great inventions, and maths.
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doug1,
China, India, the pre-islamic ME, Persia were more than competitive. They just started believing their own bullshit and spent more time screwing each other, like you guys are doing now.
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Lucifer
Your own idiosyncratic wishful thinking, Desi.
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What about western europe before the roman empire expansions?
“India is such a disorganized non linear mess before the Brits”
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doug1,
Who is going to pay the pensions and other entitlements of aging whites? their kids?
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Could make it a race I suppose
he he he
And people think our biggest problem is gloabal warming.
ahahahaahhaahahahahahahha
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Wait, Lucifer is an Indian?
My god, what a pathetic procession of the worst we have to offer comes over here.
FeministX
AuntiJi
Desi FPUA
and now Lucifer. Lucifer is the worst of all as he is supposedly a MAN (and I use that term loosely).
What a pathetic piece of shit.
Hey Lucifer, all of the Indians in positions of politican prominence in America (whether officeholders or authors) are Right Wing :
Bobby Jindal
Dinesh D’Souza
Ramesh Ponnuru
Indians are natural Republicans, you know (frugal, business oriented, socially conservative, study only economically viable subjects in college)
Your white hatred as an extension of your anti-British bias is horrendously obsolete. Idi Amin kicked Indians out of Uganda (and even ate a few of them), you know.
Indians flock to ALL Anglosphere nations in droves. The progress in India is due to Indians who are in these Anglosphere nations, sending money and expertise to India, NOT due to people within India.
GNPs already took a good name by calling you Loserfer. I will have to be original and call you Lucy.
Show some gratitude, Lucy.
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doug1,
where are the new consumers going to come from? who is going to buy your stuff? and with what? and how are they going to get it?
how are your pensions funds going to pay pensioners? who is going to buy your equities and bonds? how are you going to cash out? what is your new economic engine of growth? innovation? who are your technocrats going to be? can you make money on money (financialism) as a replacement for real growth? who is going to lend you money? how can your current corporate structures support big innovations?
don’t you get it? you require us more than we require you (and we know that).
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Fact :
India was 33% of the world economy in the year zero, bigger than the Roman Empire, and even as recently as 1820, was about 20%.
But by the 1970s, India was just 1% of World GDP. This was far after the British left.
Today, India has recovered to a better but still pathetic 2% of World GDP.
There are lessons in the massive decline of India (and China, along a similar timeline) that America would do well to heed.
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Lucifer–
Of course they didn’t.
Present and for awhile now knowledge tells us that the Mesopotamians (Iraqis) did followed by the Egyptians and Indus river civilizations — which may have been populated by a precursor group to the Davidians of mostly southern India.
You do know who I am right? That I’m not a white nationalist? Nor PC either?
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Lucy wrote :
don’t you get it? you require us more than we require you (and we know that).
Yeah, that is why tons of Indians are on a 10-year waitlist for greencard to the US..
This ignorant Lucy faggot’s opinions are not representative of the majority of Indians. This board does seem to find the worst possible Indians, though.
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But your kind is dying.. and I am enjoying the show.
If you guys were more reasonable, we could have worked something out. But you guys want to be ‘top dog’.. I suggest you keep marching down that path, it will be a fun to watch.
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Tood–
Where are you getting this?
I’m not hostile to it but rather fascinated.
I’ve for some while tried to find good web sources for world economic history, especially if done with maps and so on, but have had a hard time finding anything good going back to ancient periods.
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Tood,
You still don’t get it. Your economic system was running on the fumes of ‘financialism’ since the 1980s. The last fumes are being consumed as we speak..
But the engine requires gasoline to run. No working engine = no power.
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doug1,
See ‘Economic Timeline for India’ on Wikipedia. The silk road, Columbus’ desire to find another path to India, etc. all tie in. The production of gold, gems, and textiles alone was more than the rest of the world put together.
From 2000 BC to 1820 AD (3800+ years), India + China were 40-50% of the world’s economy.
But by 1975, India + China was just 2%. Yes, 40% of the population was just 2% of 1970 World GDP.
The British did take obscene amounts of wealth from India (hence Lucy’s white hatred), but they left India with even better tools to create new wealth (democracy, English language, Common Law system). It took 60 years for India to even begin to figure out that these were assets.
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Lucy,
Mai tere se zyada hoshiyar houn, pagal.
Your knowledge of economics is precisely zero. Millions of Indians are screaming to enter the US, and those that can’t get into the US, go to the UK, Canada, and Australia.
Get an education, Moorkh.
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Ever looked at your demographic profile? revenue requires income.. income requires working people and jobs.
never mind..
“Yeah, that is why tons of Indians are on a 10-year waitlist for greencard to the US”
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Lucy,
All of the Indians in positions of politican prominence in America (whether officeholders or authors) are Right Wing :
Bobby Jindal
Dinesh D’Souza
Ramesh Ponnuru
Indians are natural Republicans, you know (frugal, business oriented, socially conservative, study only economically viable subjects in college)
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Why does Lucy copy the sentence by someone who used that very sentence to outsmart him, as the closing sentence of his own post?
I mean, each time, that sentence is specifically one that exposes YOUR stupidity.
Not very intelligent, are you Lucy?
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Tood,
Without new consumers, your ponzi scheme will collapse.
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Tood,
North indians, have a big inferiority complex.. being gang raped for centuries by muslims and all
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Lucy,
Wait, so you are a South Indian? One of the ugly ones, eh?
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Without new consumers, your ponzi scheme will collapse.
‘Your’?
Kuch pagalpan Ghatane ka davai lo, ji.
The funny thing is, even a post-collapse USA is still 20 times wealtheir than India.
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Tood,
There is more genetic diversity in peninsular india than the north.. I know, you are disappointed…
Having said that, I have always liked what I am.
Many indians (especially north indians) want to show that they are proper whites born in a brown body.You want to be white… I just want to be ME.
That is why you will always be a coolie.. you have chosen that path.
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Tood,
Are you not assuming that the US and the west will still be functional societies, post-collapse? I doubt it..
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Tood,
Are you not assuming that the US + west will still be functional societies?
Wealth is dependent on the ability to maintain a functional society. Think about why I am saying that..
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There is more genetic diversity in peninsular india than the north..
Of course, because South India is more primitive (and Madrasi people are ugly).
Having said that, I have always liked what I am.
Yeah, right.
Are you not assuming that the US and the west will still be functional societies, post-collapse?
India, at this moment, is itself not a functioning society. 40% of Indians do not literacy, clean water, or electricity.
America has never, ever, been is such a shitty shape. Show the proper respect, you ugly Madrasi.
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Tood,
Do you even know the difference between ‘wealth’ and ‘money’?
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Tood,
You are assuming that the west is resilient. You will be surprised..
I am guessing that you are the requisite brown cock-sucker to fluff your white “friends”? I have always wondered.. how can you guys live with your “gungadin” status? Do you hate yourself that much?
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Do you even know the difference between ‘wealth’ and ‘money’?
Do you know the difference between dick and pussy? I didn’t think so.
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I have always wondered.. how can you guys live with your “gungadin” status?
Again, more projection from a self-loathing Madrasi.
Do you say ‘Yand’ and ‘Yalso’ for ‘and’ and ‘also’? Do you say ‘Aiyo’ at the end of each sentence?
And why are Madrasi women so ugly?
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Lucifer, you need to stop. Your arguments are incoherent, and strung together poorly. They don’t follow logically. Everything Tood is saying is 100% correct. For the sake of everyone here, STOP.
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S.,
I do not care about what you think.. and neither does anyone else.
That is the longest answer you deserve.
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Tood,
Do you really believe that sucking white dicks is a guaranteed path to success?
What happens when you realize that your “gods” are impotent mortals?
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Lucifer:
You are a Class A tool. Anyone that disagrees with you sucks white dick? The sad fact is, all you did was hammer off poorly thought-out conjecture, without substantiating it in any meaningful sense. Everyone else that has responded to you i.e. Doug, Tood, Seeking Alpha, etc. has totally trumped whatever nonsense you’re spouting on about.
The fact that all you could do was bar yourself from talking to me highlights the weaknesses in your own argument.
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S.,
Sophism == BS
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There have been two Dark Ages, and three industrial revolutions, in world civilization history (Amerinds never did anything remotely interesting or useful or impactful on world history).
The first revolution was the Bronze Age, around 3000 BC to 1100 BC. You saw the rise of many civilizations, the Egyptian (which may have been the oldest not the Mesopotamian), the Indus and Yellow River civilizations, Mesopotamia, the Hittites, Assyrians, Mycenae Greece and the Minoan civilizations. All came crashing down at around the same time, the Med based ones all ended with the predations of the “Sea Peoples” about whom nothing is known save the Egyptians who fled from the sea up the river Nile, with loss of literacy, cities, population, average height (indicator of nutrition), trade goods, and pretty much everything else. Only the Egyptians and Babylonians survived, the Indus and Yellow river civilizations in China ended also but not due to the Sea People.
This was the first great Dark Age. Still mysterious. Civilizations recovered, the Persians conquered the weakened Egyptians in 500 BC or so and were conquered in turn by Alexander in the 300s. So began the Hellenistic Age, and then the Roman one.
Rome was very, VERY big, and lasted a VERY long time, from around 300 AD in the West to about 400 AD, about 700 years. It lasted another 1400 years or so in the East, around 1700 years total with the Byzantines. Islamic civilizations conquered much of Central Asia (and were conquered and destroyed in turn by the Mongols who failed to take Western Europe), as well as most of India. Europe after the fall of Rome had the second Dark Age, which lasted about 600 years until the Crusades at which point Europe retook territory (southern Italy, Sicily, parts of southern France, Spain) slowly that had been conquered by the Muslims. But the European model that eventually crushed all others was very different from the models of China, India, and Islam.
THEY were all the same model. The same big men the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Carthiginians, Myceanean and Minoan Greeks, Persians, Mongols, Babylonians, Assyrians, Late Roman Republic and Empire, Hittites, Indian and Chinese civilizations all had. A few big men, dominating almost absolutely, mobilizing vast slave armies with agricultural empires overawing everyone.
This model can get VERY big. Ghengis Khan ruled from Poland to the shores of China, and south through present day Iraq and Pakistan and parts of Iran. His successors nearly conquered Japan. But it has had one constant recurring weakness. It’s like an egg. Crush the outside shell and there is nothing but yolk inside. Because the model works on the absolute submission of the masses to the few nobles and big Big Man.
India, China, Russia, and Muslim nations today retain that flaw. India absent a few elite remains mostly illiterate and barbaric (suttee, thuggee, and other primitive, uncivilized, and revolting customs are common still). It’s a thin, coastal city crust on a people who have not changed in their caste-ridden ignorant stupidity since 3000 BC (and probably never will). China is no better, most Chinese can’t read, can’t speak a common language (regional dialects are basically mutually unitillegible, think French and Polish) and remain poor, illiterate, superstitious, prone to cults, and brutal, bloody revolts at the drop of a hat. When I was in China in the late 1990’s, I was told by GE folks that the people they were required to use in their plants from Central China had never seen a bathroom and kitchen, and preferred to do their business in the stairwells and prepare food in the bathrooms. They were all to a man and woman, illiterate.
The Western Model has been superior since 1000 AD not because of technology invented there (Westerners borrowed most of it from China initially, but improved it constantly where China let it simply decay). Rather, it’s because Westerners solved the age old dilemma — how to mobilize resources and still keep social peace. It was done by slowly, gradually, neutralizing peasant revolts by the nuclear family, Western tribal Pagan “freeholder” autonomy mixed with Christian monogamy, and devolution of authority along with independent family businesses that harnessed a lot more power and wealth than the slave empires of old. City State Greece and the early Roman Republic came close to this, but lacked both Christian Monogamy and tribal pagan desires for “freeholding” as the glue.
If the West is sick it’s because women’s desire for the Big Man left unchecked has destroyed the nuclear family, monogamy, and “freeholding” or the desire for relatively flat hierarchies. [It’s deeply offensive to Western men to see bowing and scraping, even more offensive to see their leaders kowtow to jumped up tribal syphillitic bandits like the Saudi King, as the non-American Obama does.]
India and China are both failures because they can’t mobilize enough resources — they are still Big Man and nobility and slaves, the old model doomed to failure by foreign conquest or internal revolt of would-be Big Men. The West still can redeem itself though admittedly it is difficult. Nonetheless the core model has been proven to work, due to both superior resource mobilization and social peace. [The late Roman Republic and early Empire was an unmatched military power, but it’s power was often turned inward into brutal struggles for power. The West has since generally tried to avoid that by making it irrelevant, i.e. there is so much wealth away from being Big Man it’s really just a tiresome exercise that most would rather not do.]
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Seeking Alpha, there have been numerous studies done on the sexual behavior of Mexican-origin teens. City-Journal’s Heather McDonald has a bunch of data on that site, detailing the following:
Second generation Mexican women have illegitimacy rates significantly higher (in the 40% range) than White peers adjusted for income.
THIRD generation Mexican women have even HIGHER illegitimacy rates than their mothers (over 50%) and a much, MUCH higher level of teen births. Higher than their mother and of course White peers.
So no, family values as understood by the White working/middle class are NOT the same across the Rio Grande. You can also see the divergence in volunteering (Volunteering in America has your stats, highest volunteering rate is in nearly all White Salt Lake City, Boise, and Portland, lowest is in LA and NYC). As well as SAT taking, AP classes and tests taken, and nearly every other aspect of culture.
Mexicans rather unsurprisingly remain Mexican. Look at Nielsen’s site and see how Black and White viewership of the Top 20 TV shows WEEK AFTER WEEK remains virtually identical, but Mexican is nearly all Spanish Language. Mexican immigrants to the US, legal or not, remain MEXICAN.
The eat Mexican food. They speak Spanish not English in the home. They believe themselves Mexican not American in loyalty and identity. The don’t like Whites (at all). Or America, much less the flag.
Duh.
Mexico is right next door, and Spanish language media locks Mexican origin immigrants generation after generation into non-Absorption. Its as if Ireland was right next to the US during the 19th Century, and Gaelic language newspapers were all over the place, along with Gaelic only business, neighborhoods, and politicians.
[The only exception I can find is the casualty lists for Iraq and Afghanistan. Mexican origin Marines and Soldiers are the second highest component after White guys from the South, Mountain West, Midwest, and Pacific Coast. Mexican guys do love the Marines, the macho aspect of total discipline and aggression seems to suit them well. There are almost no Blacks among the casualty lists, at least not what I read in the local papers. Blacks don’t seem to be in combat units in large numbers. However, that being said, relatively few Mexican guys in proportion to their numbers enlist in the Military. You don’t see most guys in East LA, for example, being veterans, the way you would say in White Santa Monica in 1955.]
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@Lucifer:
Please point out the sophistry in what I just said.
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whiskey,
I find your ‘analysis’ amusing.. but all the sophism, word play and BBC-type historical ‘interpretations’ are not gonna save your ass.
It is a prayer.. just a prayer. Compare your text to the catholic prayer for Exorcism.
If your best answer to the now inevitable demise of the west is a prayer, you have a problem!
PS- Ever considered writing for BBC documentaries celebrating the “achievements” of the west?
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Lucy,
OK, let’s see if you can organize the voices in your vacant skull.
Exactly what percentage with the GDP of the United States decline by, by which year. Since you think the West is on the ‘brink of collapse’, you should be able to put forth some numerical predictions of what will happen.
A 25% decline by 2010? A 100% decline by 2012? What is it going to be?
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Tood,
Systemic collapses are like multi-organ failures. The feedbacks from a partial failure in one part result in the worsening of another partial failure somewhere else.. and so on..
GDP and currency values are meaningless, if your system has reached a level that:
a] almost nobody believes in it.
b] it does not work well enough to stop a deflationary spiral
At this point, not even war can bring it back.. especially in today’s world.
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Lucy,
You are being evasive. I want actual numbers from you.
Otherwise, something concrete, like “50% of America’s population will not have enough food to eat” or something.”
Put forth an actual, coherent, quantitative prediction.
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Interesting statement by Doug-
“Obsidian—
Whites do tend to support their own, but they do so less than any other racial group. As well Anglos do so less than any other white ethnic group. They should probably do so more in fact, until other groups lower their own ethnocentrism.”
– But don’t you realize that whites have unspoken societal privileges, almost an indefinable advantage, that frees them from the burden of having to constantly uplift and support their own? There will always be a “chance” for them.
Ever heard the Chris Rock joke, you tell a white child they can be what they want one day, and the child says, “Yeah, I know,” but not before Obama could a black parent look his kid in the face and say the same thing with confidence?
Minorities must grab on to and run with the chances they are offered, which in this age are still too few.
White privilege is real.
Bringing up examples like PG County, MD and the select examples of black success through affirmative action, etc. does not show a real picture of the plight that black people suffer in this society.
Minorities have no choice but to rally around their own, unlike whites who have the luxury to pick and choose their allegiances in a colorblind manner because they have inherent freedoms in our country.
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Lucy is that most sad and useless of creatures: a nerd with a low IQ.
I now consider him a troll and will no longer reply to him. He is a duller version of TJF.
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White privilege is real.
That white woman in Ohio who cleaned my hotel room is very privileged.
allegiances in a colorblind manner because they have inherent freedoms in our country.
Same old rotten loot-whitey narrative. Reframe: whites built this country and mostly due to the avarice of their capitalist classes, invited tons of non-whites here.
Have some fucking class and gratitude for being allowed to be here, instead of bitching about white privilege.
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there is a word for people like Gates… it starts with an N and sounds like bigger
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@PA
I think you need to reconsider who built this country. Without the hard work of non-whites, many famous structures and inventions would not be here now. This country was built on the backs of both whites and non-whites.
Re: gratitude
I am not sure if this was aimed at me, but my ancestors have lived in this country for several generations… perhaps before yours, who knows?
And we are all immigrants here in one way or another.
For those who are recent transplants to this amazing country, discussing the effects and / or lamenting white privilege is not mutually exclusive to having gratitude.
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Dreamer – are you white? if so, then you must re-educate yourself. You’ve swallowed all the hate and envy they’ve taught you in school.
Are you non-white? then your attitude toward whites is dime-a-dozen and very ordinary.
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dreamer
“Without the hard work of non-whites, many famous structures and inventions would not be here now.”
interesting package deal. anyone thats not crippled or deformed can lay bricks–who conceived of the design? do some laborers share equal credit with the person who designed the Hoover Dam?
as for the famous non-white non male-US “inventions”–please list them now. if you say peanut butter and white out i will never stop laughing
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lucifer: “I am not black, but if my ancestors were treated like that – I would not play nice. That is for sure!”
It is rather shocking to read this from an Indian. The cast system in India is 2500 years old
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The “twice-born,” i.e., the three upper castes, account for less than 20% of the population. The Brahmins alone take 70% of government jobs.
Ask yourself, how many south Indians belong to the untouchables? Lucifier, are you transporting your bitterness here?
The anonymous above was Pupu.
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Whites did not invent civilization.. you just picked up from where others left off.. and now we have picked up from where you have left off. Evolution in action!
whites have created civilizations that were superior to India and China since Greece. This is the third or fourth time I write this. I would rather live in greece, Rome or Bizantium, or Flanders or Lombardia than India or China at any given moment in the last 3 thousand years
having said that, I concede that Indians are , together with the Japanese, the nicest and less troublesome folks in Asia. India specially has never evern invaded any other country. But Indians should beware. Their wise ancestors devised the caste system to put the shudras (i.e, NAMs) in their places. Once the C aste System goes down, and current Indians are working hard on that, Indians will face the reality of having 40% of the population composed by low IQ minorities.
It will be a much more humane society than the caste system´s. But if blacks behave like they do in the US having suffered much less than the untouchables, I wonder how upper caste Indians will fare once the full scale of the untouchable resentment for 3000 years of opression are unleashed uppond them
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white people in this forum forget some hard truths.
I consider people like Seeking Alpha the true American patriots in the sense that they are the upholders of the Constitution. Long time ago I commented in isteve that the American constitution, despite Roissy´s, PA´s, Doug´s opinions, actually supports free immigration because it denies two self evident truths the the whole world accepted at the time, and the Americans are trying to overturn in every single country on Earth
those truths are:
– blood based citizenship. An American should be the son of American parents
– official religion. It couldn´t be generic as “Christianity”. It should be as specific as “Protestantism”.
once you realize that the American constitution explicitly ignores those self evident truths and works reject them, you will see how anti-americanism is born and why it is a rational response of many honorable people everywhere
American foreign policy, almost since its creation, has been directed to overturn those truths in every single country on Earth.
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The eat Mexican food. They speak Spanish not English in the home. They believe themselves Mexican not American in loyalty and identity. The don’t like Whites (at all)
any kind of food beats American food
spanish is charming. Spanish poetry anmd Spanish music beat the Anglo equivalents anytime
a great deal of non-white resentment agaisnt whites is due to how non-whites perceive whites as more attractive. The non-white policy towards whites could be resumed as ” kill the males, share the females”
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Seeking Alpha said:
>For illegal immigration:
>
>It’s not possible to deport them all. Let’s admit that
> up front. Not even close.
Bull…corn.
Do the following and it will happen in a few years
1) Pass a Federal law with matching annual appropriations for $10 billion in bounties for private citizens to hunt down, capture and deport illegals.
2) Give private concerns to do RICO civil suits against employers using illegal labor on the grounds they are defrauding social security and committing identity theft.
3) Allow private concerns to do public data mining to identify criminal identity theft and give them a share of any seized property and cash from operations reveled to Federal, state and local governments.
The above done at once will both kill the market for illegal labor and create a domestic industry for enforcing immigration laws that can pay off politicians in Congress just like big business.
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“The eat Mexican food. They speak Spanish not English in the home. They believe themselves Mexican not American in loyalty and identity. The don’t like Whites (at all)”
Though I am not Mexican, I can say that there is nothing wrong with speaking a different language at home than in school, at work, in public, etc. There is nothing wrong with eating different food. What the hell?
Every new wave of immigrants was faced with this sort of short-sighted hatred. In the colonies, when a massive flood of German immigrants came, several English Americans (including Ben Franklin himself) feared that the Germans would not learn English and would change the colonies.
in the late nineteenth century the same feelings were harbored towards Swedish immigrants, Italian immigrants, etc. (particularly Italian immigrants because they were Catholic and were generally darker than most English/German Americans)
All these families spoke their native language within the four walls of their homes, but once they left them they adopted English.
By the third generation the language was lost, although shattered remnants of it would remain in regional accents. (Most accents from the rustbelt originated from Scandinavian immigrants)
I know that it’s somewhat different with Mexican immigrants, but do know that it’s not like that for everyone. Some “Mexican Americans” have been American longer than your family has. (They didn’t cross the border, the border crossed them). The more recent Mexican Americans haven’t been here long enough for a fourth/fifth generation to settle down and adopt pieces of American culture.
Just sayin’.
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And what is American food anyway? McDonald’s?
I’ll take arros con pollo or ropa vieja any day over that.
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”””””’Pupu
The “twice-born,” i.e., the three upper castes, account for less than 20% of the population. The Brahmins alone take 70% of government jobs.
Ask yourself, how many south Indians belong to the untouchables? Lucifier, are you transporting your bitterness here?
The anonymous above was Pupu.”””””””’
Lucifer this is why indians aren’t going to be the ones I would venture to guess. They are being injected with the same shit. When the divorce laws hit india gonna be a bloodbath.
@Tood
You say nice things today but how many white males have you hired?
he he he
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”””””””gig
The eat Mexican food. They speak Spanish not English in the home. They believe themselves Mexican not American in loyalty and identity. The don’t like Whites (at all)
any kind of food beats American food
spanish is charming. Spanish poetry anmd Spanish music beat the Anglo equivalents anytime
a great deal of non-white resentment agaisnt whites is due to how non-whites perceive whites as more attractive. The non-white policy towards whites could be resumed as ” kill the males, share the females”””””””””
I think you nailed some of it gig.
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Mandy XD–
As I’ve said, and contrary to gil’s impression it would seem, I’m not at all opposed to legal immigration, and a good deal of it. I would like it to be more focused on skills and education and other proxies for IQ than it is.
It’s mass low skilled illegal immigration I have a problem with for three reasons 1) it lowers wages now for our legal lower half and exacerbates our current high and rapidly rising unemployment problem; 2) it bodes ill for the future, given that most illegal immigrants, largely from the lower classes of Central America, do notably less well in schools than the national average such that they (actually all Hispanics) are given affirmative action, so it seems unwise to wink at huge numbers of such illegals remaining and continuing to come; and 3) cultural swamping in some places, such as California, the numbers have become so large and so rapid.
I AM NOT opposed to the flavors of Hispanic culture in America, but in fact enjoy them.
You asked what is American food anyway. American food is a tossed salad of the foods from many cultures and most Americans like it that way. Most NYers couldn’t really imagine it any other way. Nor I think most Dade county Florida residents.
However Mandy let me ask you this: should immigrants or the children of immigrants get affirmative action?
Should we allow into the country mass numbers of people from groups that our elites feel need affirmative action?
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Mandy! XD, you are a cuntrag. die.
That said, those of you panicking over Mexicans not assimilating/hating us are incorrect. Most immigrants in America have grown up in ethnic areas where their native language was common; in some areas, it became the dominant language. But English had to be known for contact with the government, and thus assimilation began.
Laurence Welk, the great band leader, spoke German as his first language, though he was born and raised in North Dakota. That’s because there were large German-immigrant populations there, and the relative isolation allowed them to speak it without much outsider interference. Hence Welk’s delightful German accent when he spoke English, his second language.
But many of these German families served in WWI and II as translators and spies for the US. No loyalty for the Nazis there (see The Dirty Dozen for an example–Charles Bronson’s character).
And to those of you who think “well, Mexico is our neighbor, so there are much closer ties than to places abroad” I point you to New England and give this evidence:
Much of Vermont, Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New Hampshire experienced waves of French-Canadian immigration in the 19th and 20th century. In some parts of Vermont and New Hampshire, Quebecois was the native tongue, and Rhode Island used to have the largest Mardi Gras celebration outside of New Orleans, led by the Frenchies.
The novelist Robert Cormier (of French-Canadian descent, but born in Massachusetts) set his novels in Massachusetts towns made up of the descendants of French-Canadians.
Like the Mexicans, these immigrants came down for manual labor/factory jobs. Many felt they were only going to take the money and run back to Canada, depriving Americans of their fruits. Others feared French would replace English, or that they would not assimilate.
Nope. the Frenchies stayed and were and have been loyal Americans to this day. And English is now dominant everywhere; recent immigrants speak the old tongue, but as we become connected, English replaced the old.
Its rightful to kick out the illegals and keep jobs for Americans, if there aren’t enough for all (as in right now). Its especially right to kick out illegals who become criminals. But arguing they won’t assimilate is just counterfactual given our nation’s history.
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You still don’t get it, do you..
I have no desire to prove anything to you. The course of events, on the other hand, have put your type on an entertaining trajectory.
Hubris makes those afflicted by it hang themselves, and you guys are doing a fine job on that one. It is not about who is ‘right’, but about who is left standing.
PS- Older immigrants and their kids might still want to suck up to you, and maybe you are expecting me to do that.. wishful thinking.
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First of all, Henry Louis Gates Juniory has absolutely nothing at all to do with the typical problems whites have with blacks.
His grievances are real, and quite frankly extreme actions against the doctor who crippled him would be morally right.
But he was only crippled for life! ONLY CRIPPLED FOR LIFE!
He needs to GET OVER IT! A positive attitude will allow him to walk like a normal human being and take away decades of suffering!
And, to the best-health-care-in-the-world zombies that think this is rare, I actually talk to people, and doctors make these kinds of errors ALL THE TIME. I know someone crippled by those drooling ‘can’t see the shattered bone fragment’ hacks.
Real ghetto black behavior is a lot more annoying.
Read about the Jena Six. Bailey freely admits that when an evil whitey that was bigger than him punched him, Bailey’s ass couldn’t move fast enough to find a copper to punish that evil whitey. That’s the way they take care of business in the ‘hood. Then ‘the man’ OPPRESSED Bailey when he ‘punched'(that is savagely beat) whitey! ‘The man’ has got two standards! It was cruel of ‘the Man’ to make Bailey think he was on his side, and then to suddenly turn on Bailey without cause!
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Gunny,
Terrific avatar!
When reading your blog, Pupu was hit by an uncontrollable urge to calculate your profit. Good thing, someone gave Pupu a large piece of plum torte with fresh whip cream to come her urge down.
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*calm*
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@lurker:
“The novelist Robert Cormier (of French-Canadian descent, but born in Massachusetts) set his novels in Massachusetts towns made up of the descendants of French-Canadians.”
This was an excellent point. Another great novelist is Amy Tan, who often writes about what it’s like for Chinese immigrants (and children of these immigrants) living in America.
All immigrants in America go through similar cycles, and they do eventually assimilate.
And lurker, any insults you use on me will automatically ignored because I’m still busy laughing at how you caught an STI from that hooker you slept with.
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I was hoping you would pupu 🙂
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Now if lurker could make her fall in love and worship his cock that would be an accomplishment. he he he
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@gunslingerKAPOWKAPOW:
Yeah, but instead he got STDs. Nothing special about that.
They’re Kind of like the gift that keeps on giving, but I’d like to call them the itch that keeps on itching.
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”””come her urge down.”””””’
was that freudian he he he
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Well he did get it for free from a hooker so that counts but yea that burning sensation hopefully can be cured.
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@Gunslinger:
I hope it can be cured because if it can’t I’m going to feel really, really terrible about laughing about it. Really terrible.
And apologies don’t fix those kinds of things.
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Mandy! XD,
You little devil!
Before advancing to the next level, we should first acknowledge that Kapow is a Thai basil dish, and itchy bitchy is a spider story 🙂
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Perhaps if I were smelly, ugly, stupid and had a small dick, I would be forced to resort to trolling on the internet for some meager semblance of social interaction, too.
What I can’t explain is why the rest of you keep replying to this loser…
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Lurker,
Don’t fright. But have it seen to as soon as possible… the itchy bitchy feeling could be all in your mind.
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Allright Jack we can fight
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That’s why jack now you figured it out. I am a man you are a pussy. That is why you get jack. Got it now. So if you can’t figure someone out or something it tends to mean you are not smart enough. If you can’t understand someone it means you are not as smart as they are. People that are smarter than you can understand you. Hope this helps you on your journey.
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HA!!!
gig to mandy “do you cook?”
LOL! brazilian guys…gotta lov’em!
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@ Dana
Code Compiler
Apgar scale
Disposable syringes
Home video surveillance
Propellers for nuclear reactors
Blood banks
Traffic signals
Gas masks
Toggle-iron harpoon
Disposable cell phones
Windshield wipers
Film processing
Nystatin (antifungal antibiotic)
Radium and X-rays
Dishwashers
Petroleum refining
6-mercaptopurine
Computerized telephone switching system
Bra
Vacuum-packed canning
Grocery bags (paper)
ScotchGuard
Process to isolate the human stem cell
Magnetic pulse transfer controlling device
Optical method of cancer detection
AIDS testing methods
And that’s just in America.
Look, I can appreciate — there are a lot of great inventions out there. But people who say that the only inventors out there are white males are just being deliberately naive. Please be aware that part of the reason US inventions, in general, make such news is that the US is a world power. Also, be aware that, without the work put in to make said inventions into reality, they’re really nothing at all — just abstract ideas that, well, don’t exist. And while you can laugh and say things like peanut-butter is not an invention of note, think of how many people in the US eat peanut butter as opposed to benefit directly from the Hoover dam.
I’m not trying to hate — and, for the record, I’m very conservative when it comes to immigration ala doug1 (as far as I can see, I’ve only scanned the comments thus far) — but come on. Part of what makes America great — or, well, what made America great (not sure how long we’ll hold the title), is the mix of people. Because, from the Anglo-Saxon Puritans to the Chinese immigrants in California, these people were, well, if not the “best and the brightest,” people with a definite drive to succeed. That’s the kind of person who (used to) come to America — people who wanted something their respective old countries couldn’t give them. That something — rather, that drive for something — was what created such a strong foundation. Hmm. Basically, it was that everyone was fighting for these abstract notions — freedom, liberty, etc. — that made America a country where people wanted to be, as opposed to having been born into under whatever oppressive regime.
Yes, the majority of inventors in the past, although not as much anymore, have been white males. But no invention comes directly from the genius brain of a single person (well, almost no). It’s absurd to say that the one person with the idea who cannot implement said idea has anything at all, and it’s especially absurd to qualify inventions as ‘better’ or ‘worse’ based on abstract reasoning. Would you say, for example, that the invention of the bra affects more of the population than does the Empire State Building? (Hint: Every woman in the world wears a bra, and the Empire State Building is a mostly-empty tourist attraction.)
When you start to qualify as such, you start spiraling downward into the pit of feminist reasoning, where the ONLY important things are those things that are done by men — so we should all try to be men.
SRSLY.
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C_W:
The figure commonly quoted around my parts is that one out of ten cases are iatrogenic i.e. caused by medical profession.
The last person I’d thought would do that would be a doctor in the US. It’s certainly all heavy testing and evidence-based, especially with a fear of legislation that has all their resources talking about ‘legal issues’ around every disease.
Psychosomatic is not a diagnosis. Not in modern US medicine. Modern medicine in general. But especially not the US.
Slipped epiphysis is more common in black kids: When compared with white children, black children have a higher incidence rate at 3.94 times, and Hispanic children have a 2.54 times higher incidence rate.”
If only his doctor was more race aware?
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LILGRL:
I’m pretty sure Dan and lurker fully believe the bolded part and have been very vocal re: that.
Otherwise, did you pull that list from memory?!
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I’d like to point out that I discovered in about two minutes of searching that Henry Louis Gates had been crippled for life by a hack doctor. It’s not that I’m smart. It’s that my competition is a cliche.
Even people like Roissy feel the need to jabber mad nonsense like:
I’m afraid, Roissy, he is in fact bitter because he has been in constant pain since he was fourteen. No doubt his crippled condition made him far more intellectual than he would have been. It probably made him the scholar he is today, but I doubt he feels like thanking anyone for it.
I’m afraid even the whining, screaming madness of a thousand whores and fools is going to fail to convince Henry Louis Gates that his crippled leg is IN FACT whole. That his pain is really just a BAD ATTITUDE.
Recognizing that fact would move a lot of you closer to being that ‘adult’ thing you all talk about. Other people can have pain that is, you know, REAL. Some of you, like Lucifer, may have been treated badly yourself, but somehow imagine you are the only special one to have ever suffered. No. Whitey gets a lot of bad treatment to, Lucifer.
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Bravo, Lilgrl!
It would be an interesting exercise to remove from your list the inventions made by Asian Americans.
It’s unfortunate that the Gates case should not be a race case to begin with; now, it’s all about race.
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this roissy guy is a fraud…a smart one, but a fraud nonetheless, ala bernie madoff. Besides the fact that there is no basis for your diagnosing home some anti-social beta, your assumptions about people in general are just stupid. You ve never observed gates in a social setting, you dont even know whether or not he is introverted or extroverted…you just saw him expressing rage at how he was treated and assumed he must have been brooding years of resentment.
But, i will address you assuming your assumption of him being a loner is true…the thing about most loners is that they dont want to socialize with what they see in front of them, instead of popular kids who socialize with what’s available. He may have had his social circle outside of school and thought all the people in his 7th grade weren’t worth his time. Just cause you were dumb enough to befriend happy-go-retards in your high school, doesnt make it a worth-while venture.
Finally, to you and all your drones; just cause a complex (alpha/beta) exists amongst lions and certain species out in the wild, doesnt mean it exists in mankind. And even if it did, your whole basis of what constitutes an alpha man is primarily bullshit. At the end of the day girls decide what terms them on, what tickles their fancy, the fact that you are that doesnt make you alpha. afterall if what turns them on were something else, and it could be anything else, would that still make you alpha. This blog is just bullshit that operates after ” women are excited when they are with me, therefore i am alpha”
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What’s funny about this description of him is that it totally describes most of the HBD loving weirdo loners here too but that irony will be totally lost on them.
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“That’s what happens to black men in America”
I don’t know if I got the quote precisely right, but even if I’m close, it sounds a little hollow coming from someone living in a city with a black (all right, female) mayor, a state with a black man governor, and a nation with a black man president.
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“By the way, isn’t it wild how Mark Fuhrman was about the only decent human benig in the whole OJ Simpson saga, and he was the only one who came out of it with a felony conviction?”
PA
I hope that’s sarcasm. Otherwise I’m not quite sure if you should be classified as moron or cretin.
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@doug1:
“However Mandy let me ask you this: should immigrants or the children of immigrants get affirmative action?
Should we allow into the country mass numbers of people from groups that our elites feel need affirmative action?”
No, I don’t believe in affirmative action in regards to race. The College Board also has a tendency of giving out “National Achievement” awards to high scoring black and hispanic students.
It’s like saying,”Hey, you did a really good job, considering your people are supposed to be stupid!”
On the other hand, I’ll post the link in a minute, at a college discussion forum, someone brought up that ethnicity is not a huge factor in college acceptances. A number of students (around fifteen percent) don’t report their ethnicity to colleges, and the qualified still get accepted.
Affirmative action is slowly being killed in the United States, especially since universities are no longer allowed to add points to a students application because they are a minority. (see the University of Michigan affirmative action lawsuit)
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Joe–
Weak.
Plenty of alphas believe that HBD aka race and gender realism is pretty much right as well Joe, once they’ve been exposed to it. Before we have we often tend to feel it in our gut. Feel the bullshiite of the official ideology preached in the media and schools. Feel the taboos as bullshiite. As a rebellion against PC, not animus to groups.
In fact I’m quite sure that a much higher percentage of alpha than beta males have a race and gender aka HBD general viewpoint, more or less.
It’s the nerdy conformist intelligent betas, without sufficient rebellious juice, who tend to buy and defend PC hook, line and sinker.
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Those who find the orthodox view of the Gates affair here at Roissy stultifying will want to keep up with the gathering comments at Leiter Reports, where the most cogent opposing views are likely to be found:
http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2009/07/my-one-and-only-comment-on-the-arrest-of-henry-louis-gates-jr.html
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“doug – Plenty of alphas believe that HBD aka race and gender realism is pretty much right as well Joe, once they’ve been exposed to it.”
They must be not be online or avoiding the HBD sites then, because in the comments section of all these sites, all I see guys who fit Roissy’s description of Gates to a tee.
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Lucifer — the question would be, what besides the West have other cultures achieved? The answer is not much. Some interesting stuff that never went anywhere (like India’s conception of the Zero and Algebra, which went nowhere, compared to the West’s invention of Calculus).
Again, and this is my point, because the West has more than a thin layer of aristos and Big men, it generally beats other cultures because it has more people doing more things and is “deeper” as well as wider, without social disasters.
Dreamer: A White kid can no more dream of being an NFL receiver (or College one), running back, defensive lineman, or realistically a basketball player, as those positions and sports are reserved for Blacks ONLY. There’s a color line that keeps Whites out in many sports.
It’s true that non-Whites and non-White Males have invented a few things, but nothing of the order of magnitude, and certainly nothing of the constant improvement, that White men in the West which is socially “flat” and relatively non-hierarchical has done over the centuries. Without White Male investment the West collapses.
Is this inevitable? No. Communication and particularly the internet allows end-runs around female-dominated media and SWPL smug yuppies to present the situation unvarnished to men. It allows “secret bloc voting” by men for their own interests. It allows punishment by giving the full Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin treatment to those who oppose male interests. Political retaliation and fear can account for demographic inferiority (wrt women) by male voters and donors to causes. The NRA is a good example of this (if it were up to women only Alpha males would have guns).
As for Mexicans, the results are clear. Mexicans DO NOT assimilate. It’s a fantasy of deluded SWPL yuppies. Mexico is right next door, it has a huge population of young people, it’s culture, economy, and politics have all failed to provide for a modern, safe nation. Mexicans are not Germans who form enclaves in South Texas or Nebraska, cut-off from Germany by an ocean. Mexico is right next door, and radically different from the relatively depopulated nation of the 19th Century.
Third and Fourth Generation Mexican women have skyrocketing teen mother and illegitimacy rates. Their children get locked up for crimes at appalling rates. If any assimilation happens, it’s to Ghetto Black norms (likely for the same reason, competition among boys/men to be the thuggiest thug for thug-preferring Mexican women).
In addition, Robert Putnam (Bowling Alone author) has found to his liberal dismay that diversity creates distrust and low levels of volunteerism, public involvement and investment, even among same racial groups, i.e. Mexican-to-Mexican. High trust, low-cost societies (low levels of policing, imprisonment) are generally mono-ethnic and have no “Big Man” structures: Finland, Japan, 1950’s America, 1950’s Britain, Switzerland, etc.
The one exception is a brutal dictator like Lee Kwan Yew, or Tito, and that peace they provide a multi-ethnic society generally does not outlive them.
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Doug –
No, nerdy conformist intelligent betas whose childhoods made them grow to resent traditionalists and conservatives and blame them for their inability to fit in anywhere or be all they wanted to be in life tend buy and defend the PC hook, line and sinker.
Nerdy conformist intelligent betas whose childhoods made them grow to resent liberals, the PC and minorities and blame them for their inability to fit in anywhere or be all they wanted to be in life grow up to buy and defend the HBD dogma hook, line and sinker.
Black nerdy conformist intelligent betas whose childhoods made them grow to resent white traditionalists and conservatives and blame them for their inability to fit in anywhere or be all they wanted to be in life grow up to buy and defend the afrocentric academia worldview hook, line and sinker.
They’re no different in ideology or approach to life, just fighting for different armies.
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Mandy–
What’s the puzzle? They get treated as not needing/deserving AA. I.e. as probably being white or Asian.
Michigan used a naked quota system. It’s easier and cheaper to implement. Other places have used, and now mostly do use, more bs laden systems that involve “goals” and complications. They may not always arrive at quite as rigid a quota resentation of the population but they still constitute very significant AA. What they arrive at will depend on how they “tune” it.
I’m much more against AA for women than for blacks though. But also much more against it for immigrants including Hispanic ones than for blacks.
My main reason for bringing up AA there though was to explain why I think it’s legitimate to discriminate in immigration policy against mass immigration of any peoples that are thought to need/deserve it. (btw I think it’s ridiculous that all Hispanics should get AA or be thought to need it. The ethnicities and class origins vary greatly. Cubans for example. Or Brazilians in the US.)
Then again I don’t think we should any longer allow the mass immigration of anyone.
Instead, just the best and brightest, from anywhere and any group. Blacks, indo Central Americans, anywhere. As long as they really are demonstrably highly skilled, best and brightest. Still not in swamping numbers, but substantial ones are good.
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Mandy — AA is looming ever larger in College admissions, and is indeed explosive. As parents are unable (if they are White and Middle class) to send kids to college, due to rapidly rising tuition, declining student aid for White kids, and scholarships.
Already there are lawsuits pending against ETS for the SAT and AP tests, demanding in effect quotas for Blacks and Hispanics against Whites (limited number of slots for admits at each college and each tier of college). Univ. of Michigan is a joke, the AA preferences are now just coded for “experience” which means Black or Hispanic.
It’s a way of discriminating against upward mobility against White middle and working class aspirants. So people like Tom Friedman can keep their gigantic mansions. Or Al Gore if you prefer. Or rather, that no one else can have mansions like them.
Nerdy beta types probably are more likely to look at data and underlying science. If Darwin explains evolution, why would it magically not apply to human beings? Why would evolution apply to all living things BUT ourselves? Note, different does not equal “better” and fitness to the environment can imply the common rat more than the blue whale. But there it is.
“It moves.”
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@doug1:
“Then again I don’t think we should any longer allow the mass immigration of anyone.
Instead, just the best and brightest, from anywhere and any group. Blacks, indo Central Americans, anywhere. As long as they really are demonstrably highly skilled, best and brightest. Still not in swamping numbers, but substantial ones are good.”
While I do agree that mass immigration is probably a bad idea, I don’t think the “best and the brightest” should be allowed in our nation. Everyone who comes to America is looking for something better for themselves and for their children. They’re willing to work for it, and their children will make something of themselves in our nation.
“btw I think it’s ridiculous that all Hispanics should get AA or be thought to need it. The ethnicities and class origins vary greatly. Cubans for example. Or Brazilians in the US”
That’s why Mexican and Puerto Rican are, according to the College Board, races. Even though they lump the “Hispanic awards” together, they differentiate between Mexicans and Puerto Ricans.
I know what you’re saying about Cubans, though. In the 90’s, Cubans or those of Cuban descent had college graduation rates about the same as those of whites. Possibly even slightly higher.
And Brazilians aren’t Hispanic.
@whiskey:
The issues involve the surprisingly large number of qualified students graduating. Also, I know in Florida, students with decent GPAs and SAT scores get full tuition to state schools. Other states have similar policies. There ARE scholarships for whites, I’ve even found scholarships for people of Polish descent, people whose ancestors fought in the revolution, etc. etc.
The issue is seen with the record number of students applying to Ivy League and other first tier universities (New Ivies, if you will). Many think that they will get in with their “good enough” test scores. Many have ridiculously false hopes. I know that financial aid is hard to come by, but most schools have financial aid appeals, scholarships, etc.
Here I’m drawing up the race statistics for an Ivy League school, Cornell University:
Black
1985: 4.60%
1995: 4.20%
2005: 4.80%
Hispanic
1985: 3.70%
1995: 6.00%
2005: 5.40%
Asian
1985: 8.30%
1995: 16.80%
2005: 15.90%
Native American
1985: 0.25%
1995: 0.47%
2005: 0.47%
White
1985: 79.24%
1995: 59.53%
2005: 56.57%
International
1985: 3.10%
1995: 5.90%
2005: 7.50%
Notice that White and Asian students applying to college need to worry more about OTHER white and Asian students they are competing with. The school has a very small percentage of Black and Hispanic students. About one in ten students is a Non Asian minority. The United States isn’t even distributed that way racially.
I’m not justifying affirmative action, but I’m saying, it isn’t this huge plight that the white middle class makes it out to be. Face it, the white middle class is the majority. These students get around the same SAT scores, and are all going to have decent GPAs. It’s their activities that NEED to stand out.
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Oh, and I know I only used one school as an example. I know that region plays an important part in the demographic breakdown of a school. Schools located in LA probably have a higher percentage of Latinos (Just because there are MORE latinos) schools located in Miami and Florida definitely have more Hispanic students. Region plays a role in determining the demographics of a university, although almost every university STILL has a large Asian and White majority.
Affirmative Action was created to mimic the “real world” percentages of different races and ethnicities. I wonder why so many universities are 15-20% Asian instead of the “real world America” 5%.
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Whiskey,
Nobody cares about the white version of history and destiny. Only the objective is real, the subjective is just bullshit.
Your lucky break was the ‘black death’ (1300s), an event that made the “status quo” unrestorable. Events that unfolded from that point (soft reboot) onwards were what changed your luck. It was always luck and chance, not your innate ability.
Look, I have no reason to feel any gratitude towards your type. You had your role in the continuum of change, and now it is over.
PS- Please keep your women. Why would anyone want a white woman in a world where being white was not advantageous.
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Mandy:
i.e. let everyone in, but legally?
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@Bhetti:
Well, no.
That’s not practical.
I mean, as it is, the best and the brightest will come to America more easily than the rest.
But I think a few others should be let in as well. To be given a chance. Legally, though. Illegal immigration is not right. It isn’t.
America can’t let everyone in right now; in fact, even in the best of times it’s not practical.
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Mandy: Well, you have to define the selection criteria quite clearly. e.g. in the UK, it’s best and brightest and those seeking asylum. And then ‘seeking asylum’ has to be more clearly defined. ‘Best and brightest’ as well, even, with Australia if I recall correctly targeting people in specific professions.
Recalling also that people get around it via marriage.
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@Bhetti:
re Australia: I know Germany also gives citizenship more easily to those employed in fields like chemical engineering, etc.
I think probably opening our borders to those seeking asylum (and of course evaluating the situations and deciding what that is exactly) is probably the best idea, considering America is a country about freedom and whatnot.
Along with “best and brightest,” (most likely those employed in the sciences and doing research.)
More specific than that of course.
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Congrats to Whiskey. Got a feature article on Sailer’s blog. (Whiskey goes by Testing99 in those commetns section.)
Whiskey, I still think you are a monomaniac on women and nuts with their “HATE HATE HATE” of white men. But your heart’s in the right place.
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“India was 33% of the world economy in the year zero, bigger than the Roman Empire, and even as recently as 1820, was about 20%.
But by the 1970s, India was just 1% of World GDP. This was far after the British left.
Today, India has recovered to a better but still pathetic 2% of World GDP.
There are lessons in the massive decline of India (and China, along a similar timeline) that America would do well to heed.
”
Yes, the lesson is not to let a foreign country (e.g Britain) do the following:
1. take control over your agricultural system, creating mass famines thanks to indifference and hoarding.
2. Create an economic situation where the foreign power allows only its goods to be purchased by the subject nation, monopolizing the market, quickly enabling the transfer of wealth and manufacturing power. (Although the proponents of this arrangement I am sure delusionally referred to it as a “free market” system, this was absolutely not the case back then, and is still somewhat removed from the reality currently. )
3. Suck dry the resources of your country.
-Since no foreign country is ruling America militarily, these lessons don’t fully apply, with the exception of number 2, although this time its the anglosphere doing it to themselves, since the American consumer has in essence become to the Global financial elite what the Indians were to the British.
-and relax about the “pathetic” 2%. It takes time for such a revival.
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“Lucifer — the question would be, what besides the West have other cultures achieved? The answer is not much. Some interesting stuff that never went anywhere (like India’s conception of the Zero and Algebra, which went nowhere, compared to the West’s invention of Calculus).”
-You will do well to study, with an open mind, the internal and spiritual truths that have long been known and lived in the East, and have barely been seen in the West obsessed with externals. It is those realms that Eastern greatness is measured by. Machines and skyscrapers are calculus are interesting but transient (and the former two are hideous in nature as well, but I digress).
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“Lucy,
OK, let’s see if you can organize the voices in your vacant skull.
Exactly what percentage with the GDP of the United States decline by, by which year. Since you think the West is on the ‘brink of collapse’, you should be able to put forth some numerical predictions of what will happen.
A 25% decline by 2010? A 100% decline by 2012? What is it going to be?
”
1. Don’t just look at GDP. Look at debt:GDP ratio, and that will tell you how severe the economic situation is.
2. If you want a number on the decline, go for 30-40% contraction at least.
3. Take a look at California – the eighth largest economy in the world and the driver of America – and its budget crisis, to see an indicator into the state of the nation.
4. Look at the current national budget and ask who is going to pay for this new debt? (look at the treasury website to see the upcoming treasury auctions of debt – its an amazing figure)
5. Expect another stock market crash – the thing is rigged by Quant/Programmed funds, is devoid from the current economic reality, is full of insider trading (head of ChaseMorgan sold a lot of his stocks recently – perhaps he might know something?)
6. I could post more economic explanations, but perhaps it is better to say, study the mentality of the citizen’s of the nation and ask if it is a viable one for a healthy society.
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rr,
They do not get it… It is over for them, and it is not coming back.
Delusions of white ‘superiority’ die hard.. luckily we have evolution (in it’s conceptual sense) to take care of that.
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You will do well to study, with an open mind, the internal and spiritual truths that have long been known and lived in the East, and have barely been seen in the West obsessed with externals. It is those realms that Eastern greatness is measured by.
What a load of humbug. Tell me how the people in Asia are demonstrating these “great spiritual truths” right now. Tell me how these “spiritual truths” have improved the lives of everyday people in Asia. Then compare that to how “materialism” has improved the lives of everyday people in the West (as well as everyday people in Asia who have adopted Western methods). Given a choice between living a “materially great but spiritually empty” life in America and living a “spiritually great” life in a materially impoverished Indian shithole, I’ll take the former every time.
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Joe–
Horseshiite.
Which of the alphas around here DON’T believe more or less in gender and race realism, aka HBD?
You know nothing on this issue, but spout much, wishing to believe much, for black ego reasons it would seem.
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Lucifer
What one sees nowadays in SE Asia is a mad rush to emulate western technology and material abundance. This is no different than the way that all tribal societies say to themselves, “Fuck this primitive shit” as soon as they see what the 1st world is like.
And what is the story about special condoms for Indian men? That must hurt.
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Lucy,
There is nothing to ‘get’. You have demostrated yourself to be an astonishingly dumb, incoherent, and illogical person.
You could not answer my simple question from yesterday, could you?
Coward.
Plus, Lucy and rr are the same person. A very amateurish (and pathetic) attempt to agree with oneself.
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See, this is exactly what I mean.
PC guy gets livid when you attack his orthodoxy. Same as afrocentric. Same as feminist. Same as HBD guy.
PC guy unleashes ad hom shaming language when you attack his orthodoxy (You disagree because you’re a rich, capitalist fat cat, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.) Same as afrocentric (You disagree because you’re racist, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.) . Same as feminist (You disagree because you hate women, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.). Same as HBD guy (You disagree because of black racial ego reasons, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me).
Thanks for proving my point. All you guys are the same in ideology and approach to the world, you’re just fighting for power from different sides.
Never mind the fact I insulted afrocentrics in my comments as being no better. Never mind that I don’t agree with Gates and haven’t stuck up for him and think he’s an idiot. If I was motivated by black racist ego reasons, why would I put down afrocentrism? No, obviously I must be a raging black pride racialist.
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”””””’Rum
Lucifer
What one sees nowadays in SE Asia is a mad rush to emulate western technology and material abundance. This is no different than the way that all tribal societies say to themselves, “Fuck this primitive shit” as soon as they see what the 1st world is like.
””””””””’
It is sad really. You see a mad rush of advertisers to turn the populace from free to slave with credit cards and all the other accoutrements (including divorce law more than likely). They are happy now. They won’t be.
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Lucifer
They do not get it… It is over for them, and it is not coming back.
Meanwhile you are a Tamil loser living in Virginia. Your people are going nowhere except chasing after White people and their civilization.
Delusions of white ’superiority’ die hard.. luckily we have evolution (in it’s conceptual sense) to take care of that.
Tamil scumbags like you were bypassed by history and evolution long ago.
You people don’t even have much of a place in your home country of India.
That’s why you are here and not there.
It’s tough for you to admit but you are from a people who have done nothing and a people who never will amount to anything.
Hence your bitterness and envy toward your natural superiors, whether they are in India or the West.
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Bhetti
Ah yes. Best and brightest and where bitches are concerned, also most beautiful. But they should have to get in by marrying local men. Good for local men. Of course some bitches will game the system with false marriages. Such is life.
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Wait, let me get something straight.
Are you black, Joe?
Because if you are, well, I’m not getting any afrocentric vibes from your post. I’m not saying that you have to be afrocentric to be black, or that all blacks are afrocentric, I’m just saying, I don’t get the accusations of afrocentrism. The race card is irrelevant here.
“PC guy unleashes ad hom shaming language when you attack his orthodoxy (You disagree because you’re a rich, capitalist fat cat, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.) Same as afrocentric (You disagree because you’re racist, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.) . Same as feminist (You disagree because you hate women, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me.). Same as HBD guy (You disagree because of black racial ego reasons, because that’s the only way someone can possible disagree with me).”
And this whole paragraph is amazingly true.
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Joe, don’t confuse legitimate HBD/sociobiology with it’s less sophisticated online advocates.
Many HBD advocates are not very bright and tend toward the nerdy/Aspergy types. Many are dogmatic and paranoid and categorical in their view. I’m talking to you whiskey/testing99
Maybe they are hiding in the simplified data to cover up their own social inadequacies.
But legitimate HBD/sociobiology is an honest attempt to understand humanity from a biological perspective devoid of religious myths, PC self deception and economic determinism.
Humans are risen apes not fallen angels. We have strong biologically bases dives, abilities and limitations. HBD/sociobiology tries to fully develop this human reality.
The fact that some people misunderstand it or misrepresent it for their own psychological reasons is no reason to dismiss the long struggle in Western science to get beyond the myths/lies/arrogance of organized religion in trying to understand the human condition.
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PA — Saw that. Yeah it was nice. Not monomaniac I think, just all the wiser. You’ve been lucky enough not be around a zillion bitchy professional women who hate beta males and don’t edit their thoughts.
Lucifer — before the Black Death, Europe had already launched the Crusades, which conducted ineptly and half-heartedly, retook Jerusalem. Astonishing.
Indeed, the Black Death proves my point. Persia soon became Hellenistic and then Islamic once the thin crust of the Persian elites were killed. The same held true for Christian Egypt, and North Africa. It was NOT true in Spain, and Sicily, and Italy, and other places in Europe where once the elites were killed, by disease or invasion, new Elites popped up
rr/Lucifer: all the Zen in the world won’t make up for the fact that a society is structured so most of it’s potential goes wasted. India got conquered well and good first by the Moghuls and then the British East India Company because caste, religion, trust, and everything else divided them and made them global losers. A prize to be plucked. Lacking the structure that made them “elite proof” i.e. kill the local elite, a new one springs up, still fighting, and utilizing nearly all the resources available. Japan half-heartedly figured that out when Commodore Perry’s Black Fleet appeared in Tokyo Bay, unstoppable. And still thought “fighting spirit” would win the day in WWII.
Even with the West having huge issues with men-women relationships, the East is no better and has if anything even worse relations between it’s genders, either repressive harems and the like, or Big Men taking all the women, or overly male structured socities, tipping into late-Western style soft female-oriented polygamy. Against a huge peasant backdrop of illiterates and superstious ignorance.
If a bio-plague wiped out all the world’s elites, the West could recover, but the East save perhaps Japan, would not. Who would run China after the Red Princes are wiped out? The whole place would be beset by warlordism, the usual state of affairs in China.
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Mandy XD–
Such a pedantic bitch.
You think i didn’t know that, technically? With Portuguese the language and history and all?
Still I think they get into the same category, AA wise. Stupid category. But why should beneficiaries object, or many of them?
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Yes, I’m black Mandy. Anyway, I’m done with the topic. I’ve said my piece.
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Rum,
Your type is screwed.. it is over. You are just going to be one more addition to the list of ancient civilizations.
Of course, the rest of the world will adopt the better aspects of ‘your culture’ and move on.. not unlike what your ancestors did.
Enjoy the ride.
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Tood,
I find people like you amusing.. that is all.
Your questions are not worth answering for one reason – you want validation of your beliefs by linear projections of “data”.
Data is only as valid as the methods used to gather it and the assumptions of the models used to interpret it. Are you watching the financial meltdown? Ever wonder how we got there..
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Willard Libby,
Two questions-
1] Why use a white sounding name?
2] Do you believe in magic? (because that is the only way you will prevail).
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Willard Libby,
You are conflating method (scientific enquiry) with race (white). If whites were “special”, why were the first civilizations non-european.
Let me put it another way… if the tertiary extinction had not occurred, would dinosaurs have dominated for the next two geological epochs? If the cretaceous extinction had not occurred, would we be having this conversation.
It is about chance, not manifest destiny.
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@doug1:
“Such a pedantic bitch.”
Excuse you.
“You think i didn’t know that, technically? With Portuguese the language and history and all?”
I don’t know what you know or what you don’t know. I don’t read minds.
Yes, you’re a very brilliant man, perhaps one of the most brilliant I’ve ever met, but no one is omniscient.
“Still I think they get into the same category, AA wise. Stupid category. But why should beneficiaries object, or many of them?”
It depends on the organization giving the award or scholarship. The College Board recognizes Brazilians as Hispanics, most other awards and organizations don’t. The same applies to Spanish people; they often aren’t grouped together with Hispanics.
It’s quite complicated. In my personal opinion, if America wants to be so color-blind and fair, college and job applications should not ask for ethnicity. In fact, they should not ask for gender. Instead, each student should be given a code (that way the gender won’t be given away by the name) and apply that way. The Universities,etc would then judge the prospective students based on extracurriculars, GPA, test scores, etc. The results would be interesting.
Now, who private organizations decide to give their money to is up to them. Same applies to private universities.
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whiskey,
Many people believe obama was not born in the USA. I do not think they can be convinced otherwise, because not believing in that idea would make their existence meaningless.
You believe that whites are inherently superior.. your choice. I feel that believing in that myth is necessary for you to function.
That is fine with me.. just don’t expect “non-whites” to care about you or treat you any better than you treated them.
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Lucifer
Willard Libby,
Two questions-
1] Why use a white sounding name?
You’re the one who uses the name Lucifer. What’s Whiter than that one.
2] Do you believe in magic? (because that is the only way you will prevail).
No, science and capitalism.
If White people magically disappear the global world they created will still be around.
Meanwhile if every Tamil disappeared tomorrow it would be no different than cleaning all the cow shit off the dirt roads of India.
It would be a cleaner world but nothing of significance would be lost.
And you know that.
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To summarise all of Lucifer’s Posts: *laughter, unnervingly devoid of emotion* Do you people not understand that there is no meaning to your existence? Everything is doomed. You are headed for destruction. Humans are silly. There is no such thing as morality. Why are you even still breathing?
whiskey: So what’s the optimum model of gender relations, if everyone’s globally missing the mark?
Doug: Bitches and false marriages… at least the bribery that is typically incolved contributes to his income. Obviously applies if you reverse the genders as well.
Aw, Doug, I bet you say that to all the girls.
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whiskey,
The east has the technology, demography and willingness to play bioweapon games. Pray that it won’t happen, because there will be no west after that.
Ever seen the ethnicity of people who study science lately?
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Willard Libby,
Yes.. civilization will survive, but no one will remember your type.
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Bhetti,
Surprisingly good.. Yes, I find human hubris, idiocy, delusions and bullshit both amusing and tragic.
Such a waste of potential..
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Lucifer, I’ve figured out Willard’s name.
William+retard= Willard.
I win.
And as for the debate over whether whites/white civilization will survive or not:
1) Our descendants will probably look very very different from what we are now, so what does it matter?
2) All great civilizations eventually fall and give rise to new ones. What comes up must come down.
3) America isn’t near its decline yet, I don’t think. It’s still a very young nation.
4) Why would you want a fully functioning, great civilization that you are a part of (you are living in America, Lucy, from what I understand) to fall? Why? If it’s working, and you’re part of it, do what you can to keep it working. You don’t want to be there when all hell breaks loose, Lucifer.
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Lucifer
You do not know what my “type” is, for one thing. For another, in a 1000 years we will all have been dead for a long time. Some of the things that some of us do here will echo into the ages. For the rest of you, the end will be more like a face-down pratt fall into vat of pig shit.
And in the meantime, we do not have to deal with the horror of needing special smallish condoms.
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Mandy! XD,
I do not hate whites or anybody else, because of their race.
I hate hubris, idiocy, delusions and bullshit. Today, the biggest purveyors of those qualities happen to be white.. that is all.
I am interested in objective and verifiable truth, not bullshit and confabulations.
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Rum,
We won’t have to wait a thousand years for that… it has already started. Otherwise, would we be having this conversation?
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Lucifer
The main reason this conversation is happening is the cleverness of a lot of internet building guys.
Thing is, I have a lot of respect for Indians (dots, not feathers). Hinduism can function as a near approximation of religious liberty. God knows the women are hot.
But Kemal Ataturk nailed it in the 1920s when he told his Turkish followers, “There is only one civilization and we can join it it or watch from the outside.” more or less.
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Rum,
I have no issues with western civilization, but white hubris on the other hand..
Look, I take issue with people ascribing to their ability what can be more rationally explained with chance/luck.
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Rum,
The internet is one of the best examples of various technologies being created and combined because of chance events and timelines.
The PC is another..
None would have existed without some peculiar combination of unrelated events.
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Lucifer
Willard Libby,
Yes.. civilization will survive, but no one will remember your type.
Nobody gives a shit about your “type” now.
And nobody will care in the future either.
Mandy! XD
Lucifer, I’ve figured out Willard’s name.
William+retard= Willard.
I win.
Willard Libby = invented carbon DATING = Dating = Game.
Mandy! XD = Mandy eXtremely Dopey
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A map of the earth if we removed “only” 5% of the nations with the lowest GDP:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/how-to-destroy-almost-half-planet-for.html
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John S.,
GDP numbers are based on faith in your economic system.. sadly yours is just a ponzi scheme.
Try again..
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””””””””””’Lucifer
Bhetti,
Surprisingly good.. Yes, I find human hubris, idiocy, delusions and bullshit both amusing and tragic.
Such a waste of potential..”””””””””””
It really is tragic that we are stuck at nigger and living on 500 a month after paying house and bills. Shit is wild. I mean how the fuck are we the way we are. We still basically torture each other. Make slaves of men using bullshit excuses. Plus it is so easy to play with the human dynamic through media. Fucking pathetic. We don’t have families we don’t have each other. We just have the state which has replaced religion as god.
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GNPs are for Apes wrote:
Blacks still approve of Obama 97%. Whites + Hispanics + Asians only approve 43%. No white, Hispanic, or Asian politican will ever get a 97% approval rating from his OWN race. Period.
Hey dumbfuck, check out how many blacks voted for Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and John Kerry.
Black people don’t vote Republican. Why? Probably because of stupid pieces of race-obsessed shit like you.
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””””””’John S.
A map of the earth if we removed “only” 5% of the nations with the lowest GDP:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/how-to-destroy-almost-half-planet-for.html”””””””
Holy Shit we got some conversation on the white cop black dude and they are trying to pass bill on global warming to reduce world gdp 5 percent. Which means at least 5 percent more layoffs right. Yea that shit was staged. Plus the health care thing which will further reduce gdp. If carbon dioxide is such a problem why can’t we plant more trees. Problem solved. What was the problem again?
Are people fucking this stupid?
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Floating algee farms covering a thousand square miles again wtf are people talking about. Why can people not fucking think about a god dam thing.
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Solve world hunger and fucking global (bitching) at the same time. Make fucking an empire state building tall structure 100 miles by 100 miles. fill that bitch with hydroponics power it off the fucking mohave dessert. How much CO2 is that removed again. All the special smart snowflakes who want something important to talk about because they ain’t getting pussy and don’t want it because they would rather contemplate reducing something that plants need to breath and we as human beings need to eat. So apparently whitey boy found another way to kill the global population that is pc instead of just killing em all bullet by bullet. Got to admit whitey is one smart motherfucker.
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”””””””on July 26, 2009 at 4:38 am Sick of Stupid Dipshits
GNPs are for Apes wrote:
Blacks still approve of Obama 97%. Whites + Hispanics + Asians only approve 43%. No white, Hispanic, or Asian politican will ever get a 97% approval rating from his OWN race. Period.
Hey dumbfuck, check out how many blacks voted for Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and John Kerry.
Black people don’t vote Republican. Why? Probably because of stupid pieces of race-obsessed shit like you.””””””””””””
Those are the peeps trying to kill you though. ahhahahahhaahahhhahahahahahha
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100 miles by 100 stories by 100 miles roughly 26 percent of landmass of us.
Irrigated Land in US Cia factbook.
214,000 sq km (1998 est.)
So yea lets times that irrigated land by ten and be able to feed world and be able to stop global warming and it will only cost around 5 percent of global gdp initially but then way less.
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So yea that will also help employment for quite some time and guys will get to work a job they can be proud of and tell there kids and grandkids about participating in. Creating memories of resiliance and achievment for a new generation. Then build one just like it on the other side of the world. Spin balance the location using a computer model so in case people start saying the world is off balance.
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LOL Yeh right a big bunch of Alpha Males spending all of Saturday night arguing on the internet. Yep, bet pussy just flings itself at ya where ever you go.
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rr has a point
When China wants to collect on the US T-Bills, what happens then?
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“When China wants to collect on the US T-Bills, what happens then?”
@mandy been here —
That’s the endgame.
But seriously China will be very reluctant to do that, because bankrupting its largest export market would be very painful to China as well. Right now China and the US are in a dysnfunctional co-dependent relationship. It will end at some point, but not without much mutual pain.
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Doug,
Yes, Prine George’s County, the richest, most affluent Black area of the USA per capita, is so largely for the reasons you presented I believe.
So what?
The point is that there is living proof that all Black folk don’t live subhuman existences in the innercity core ghetto. And as for affirmative action, again, so what?-White folks by and large, did and to an extent still do refuse to make distinctions among African Americans, and choose instead to hold on to beliefs about Black folk in the most crudest and broadest of terms, which prevents Blacks from being hired in private businesses. So, yea, the gov’t at just bout all levels, does indeed tend to hire Black folk more than the private sector. Big whup.
One of my big problems with say, OneSTDV’s “merit only” approach is that it’s something that NEVER EXISTED to begin with-there’s no such animal. There have always been ancilliary or out and out discriminatory practices done to ensure certain groups got in and others were left out, and only deluded White folks, who try to make errbody else believe in this “colorblind” nonsense, actually believes in this stuff.
The bottomline is that Black folk feel that we need to be represented in EVERY area of American life that matters, because dammit, we helped build this Mutha. And we WILL be, no matter who don’t like it.
Like I said, we’ve learned how to play the game too. Don’t hate the playas. Hate the game.
Which Black folks didn’t invent.
O
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because dammit, we helped build this Mutha
Some did, some didn’t. Work in bondage counted for something, as did service in the military, honest work and such.
But are any black people capable of honestly looking at areas where you fucked up?
Are you embarrassed when you see blacks in prison, blacks leading the way in bastardy, blacks fucking up every city and neighborhood they move into?
I’m willing ot look at the positive and the negative in blacks’ (or whites’) balance sheet. Are you?
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Gates’ reaction should have been expected and it has little to do with his beta status. It has to do with our educational system, the one that propagates a spurious account of American history.
Educational System and Belief in Racial Profiling
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Obsidian–
Bullshiite cover for blacks not cutting it.
Of course some/many do.
But the overall statistics aren’t fully up to snuff. They never will be so long as logical reasoning is important in modern economies. Affirmative action should end and everyone should find their natural place, and leftist propaganda should stop telling blacks and Mexicans and anyone else that there’s anything wrong with that.
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Obsidian–
Everything is a matter of degree Obsidian. Some economies and governments are vastly more meritocratic than others. Procedures can be put in place. That’s why there were civil service exams — since gotten around with affirmative action.
We should work towards less discrimination, not more, and prohibit crude discrimination certainly in government and in major gate keeping institutions such as universities.
Affirmative action is crude discrimination.
It should end.
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You think i didn’t know that, technically? With Portuguese the language and history and all?
Still I think they get into the same category, AA wise. Stupid category. But why should beneficiaries object, or many of them?
I would gladly answer “hispanic” if the US Census ever asked me
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When China wants to collect on the US T-Bills, what happens then?
China implodes and her rulers will be hanged in lamp-posts. The are deeply aware of that, but they haven´t figured yet how to break the marriage with the US
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gig,
China has many other options to slow-strangle the west.
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Of course I understand this. Look at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. They used to only accept kids from elite New England prep schools. I think back in 1950, 95% of the graduating class at Andover was accepted to one of those schools.
But it really doesn’t matter. Past transgressions don’t justify today’s wrongs. Using your logic, I could just say: “Well whites enslaved blacks for awhile, so let’s start enslaving Asians!”
Anything else: see doug1’s comments.
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Hey goofy troll, name three.
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I spent 5 months backpacking in India while in college.
I do look like a native in Spain or Italy, no one would give a second look. What I discovered in India, to my utter amusement, was that Indians looked at me and concluded that I was either
– Israeli (the frustrated anti-semite strikes again!)
– Indian, though from the 99th percentile in fairness. I appeared in A BOLLIWOOD COMMERCIAL. The degree of indian frustration with their lack of fair skin and the worshipping of fair skinned people that are Indian looking are amazing.
I felt like Adriana Lima. Every door was opened for me. In Varanasi, where I was paying like 12 USD per day in my hotel, I was ASKED to stay in the Local Taj hotel lobby just because they liked to have beautiful people hanging around.
SOuth Indians have that complex much worse. Because at least North Indians are marginally – fairer and have -marginally- more beautiful faces
South Indians are ugly like orcs. if you want to see an example of South Indian beauty, google “feministX”. Silvia will know the word we have for guys who bang girls like the orcish femX, ” barangar”
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China has many other options to slow-strangle the west.
they have dozens. they just need one that doesn´t strangle them also
the greatest difference between East Asians (Korea, Japan and China) and the rest of Asia is the lack of sexual frustration concerning white women.
Japanese guys who went to Europe in the 1800s for the first time sincerely described european women as having ” dog´s eyes”. Other Asians are completely stunned by white women.
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@WillardLibby:
But rocks don’t date!
/bad joke
@gig:
Similar things have happened to me in regards to race. An Indian friend of mine would always say I looked like a White Indian (“You should meet my grandmother, she’ll say you’re the prettiest girl ever!” o.o) and I’ve had people go up to me and say,”You look like my friend _____, and she’s Persian/half Iraqi/etc.”
I don’t think I look like any of those things.
“Japanese guys who went to Europe in the 1800s for the first time sincerely described european women as having ” dog´s eyes”.”
That’s because eye shape and size also has to deal with region. Better climates usually result in people having larger eyes. Northern European people usually have interesting colored eyes, not necessarily pretty shaped eyes.
IMO Mediterreanean and Middle Eastern people have the best eyes because they tend to be large and have long pretty eyelashes.
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OneSTDV,
No, it *does really matter* because you and your ilk are tilting at windmills that never, EVER, existed, nor will they. Bottomline: as long as human beings are a part of the mix, there will NEVER be a such thing as ANYONE getting over, purely and solely based on “merit”.
Indeed, we see this happening right now out in Cali, where Asians, they very ones you cited above, are literally kicking White kids’ asses on err standardized test known to Man-and guess what, White parents are none too happy about that. The very people who bitch and moan about “unqualified” Black folk getting into school now turn around and say, hey those Asians shouldn’t be taking all the choice spots in college, I don’t care *what* his/her score is!
A bigger conceit is harder to find.
Like I said One, its a game we non White folks didn’t create, but we’ve learned how to play it-so well, that we can even convince half the country’s Whites to pull the lever for a Black Man as Leader of the Free World.
So, let’s recap:
1. There has never been, there is not now, nor will there ever be, a such thing as “pure merit”. So long as human beings are a part of the equation, other factors will become part of the mix in determining who gets to be, and who doesn’t get to be.
2. Whites, particularly those like yourself, simply must learn to accept that there are increasing numbers of non Whites who have not only studied this Great American Skin Game, but can play it for maximum advantage. Bitching, moaning, pissing in one’s beer will change NOTHING. In fact, all it does is make you look like a Sore Loser-and in America, *nobody* likes a loser. In the Game, there is a concept, a very important one, called “knowing when to eject”-meaning, when to gracefully bow out. Practice this at home, One.
3. Doug’s point in relation to PGC is a non-sequitur, for the reasons I’ve already indicated. Please review it.
Questions? Holla back
The Obsidian
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for Lucifer there is only one thing western worth preserving. Redtube porn videos of white women.
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Doug,
I’ve said this before, about a week ago, but you might have missed it, so I’ll briefly recap:
See, I have no problem w/White businesses refusing to hire Blacks because they’re “unqualified”-the problem I HAVE is when many of these same White businesses then turnaround and hire grossly unqualified White folks-and as one who knows what it is to run businesses, make payroll, and see how the Business World’s sauage is made, please do not attempt to tell me that there’s no such thing as an Old (White) Boy’s Network.
There most certainly, is.
And hey, I’m 100% completely cool with that, because, again, as one who’s been in business (and about to be in a big way in a minute) I’m all for private business answering to one thing and one thing alone: the Market. So, if White folks don’t wanna put Blac folks on because they think we’re unqualified, hey that’s cool.
Just don’t try to pull the wool over our eyes, when the son, and son in law, and Daddy’s little girl, and the favored nephew, who spent all his time in frat parties getting smashed, all get on and damn near run the business into the ground. I’ve seen this too many times to count, and five’ll get you ten, you and quite a few others, have seen it too.
And again, wrt PGC, yup the gov’t hires more Black folk than anyone else. They also hire more White folk than anyone else-and you certainly don’t need me to tell you that you don’t hve to look high and low to find quite a few incompetent folk who happen to be White.
Now, Doug, let’s keep something in mind here-polling indicates, that nearly half of all African Americans are at the least ambivalent toward Affirmative Action. Ergo, guys like you, and the GOP, could have potent allies. Let’s not alienate potential allies, hmm?
And I haven’t even discussed the Market-based implications of hatin’ on Black folks.
Consider the big picture, Doug. You’re a Stanford Man. I kno you’ll do the right thing.
😉
O
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@Obsidian:
“Indeed, we see this happening right now out in Cali, where Asians, they very ones you cited above, are literally kicking White kids’ asses on err standardized test known to Man-and guess what, White parents are none too happy about that. The very people who bitch and moan about “unqualified” Black folk getting into school now turn around and say, hey those Asians shouldn’t be taking all the choice spots in college, I don’t care *what* his/her score is!”
This is the point I’m trying to make. The biggest competition for a white college bound high school student are other white students and Asians.
And as I’ve said before, Asians make up 5% of the USA, yet somehow colleges manage to have much, much higher percentages of Asians, with the exception of Vanderbilt (located in Tennessee), which, despite it’s high ranking, manages to scare away Asians.
You can complain all you want, but these students are qualified. They’re not getting in on AA.
And college percentages regarding Hispanics and Blacks usually DON’T fit the actual “real world America” ethnic breakdown of Hispanics and Blacks, which means that not all these students are getting in on AA alone.
Face it, a Harvard will NOT accept a Black student with an 800 SAT. It just won’t happen.
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Oh, and btw, Whites learn to play the skin game too. I have White nonHispanic friends that are registered as Hispanic to see if it will give them more opportunities in college.
True story.
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@mandy
I think that japanese were horrified with the colours of European eyes.
@ obsidian
if blacks get high incomes through gov´ment jobs, they, like women on social services/non profit, are effectively receiving the wages of white men transfered to them through taxation.
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gig,
Looking white became desirable in india after the 1800s.. wonder why?
Ya.. it is about money.. if your economic system collapsed or you were not able to spend, you would be undesirable.
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Mandy! XD,
incompetents who believe in their inherent superiority are still incompetent.
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o
“Business World’s sauage is made, please do not attempt to tell me that there’s no such thing as an Old (White) Boy’s Network. ”
It never applied to all whites. Lower class white were just as excluded as other races and religions. It was mostly an Upper class, WASP only thing.
Do you ever consider that blacks who continue to hammer on about racism and past injustices as the cause of current problems are mimicking the feminists (or vice versa) an thus emasculating themselves?
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Gig,
Bottomline: I for one am not comfortable w/a Fire Dept, Police Dept, Hospital staff, etc, et al, being all White in a largely Black or Hispanic city, neighborhood, etc. That may not matter to you, cool, but it does matter to ME.
And I’m not alone. Now, the issue is how to achieve this in such a way as to create as little pain as possible for all parties concerned-but make no mistake here: Black folk simply will not countenence not seeing themselves represented-period. This is something Whites simply will have to accept.
O
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Yea but obsid every add every website for major corporations has a minority in the pic and maybe a white guy. They are eventually gonna have to pull them out of homeless shelters to give them nursing jobs and office jobs.
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O
Then are mostly white fire departments ok for white neighborhoods?
It sounds like you are in favor of segregation. Is that correct?
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Obsidian,
Whites still live in a dream world that never existed and cannot exist. However, their sense of self is so deeply linked to this make believe world that removing it will kill them.
Let them keep walking down that road. Why do you want to stop them from committing suicide. Just egg them on..
Reptiles were not possible without amphibians, mammal like reptiles and archosaurs could not have existed without reptiles. But no one says that reptiles owe one or should be grateful to amphibians, nor do the descendents of archosaurs and mammal like reptiles defer to reptiles.
Each had it’s role in the continum of evolution, a process driven by randomness, synergies and possibilities. If you replace animal phyla with civilizations and cultures, you will see my
point. Nobody is special, just lucky. However whites started associating their physical appearance and other crap with their luck.
Just tell them to enjoy the ride into oblivion..
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Probably a good idea to have a racially/ethnically mixed staff (hospital, emergency services, police, etc) in racially/ethnically mixed areas – as a practical matter. As for the legalities, that’s another debate, one worth having.
Affirmative action has regrettably undermined white confidence in black professionals: eg most of the black students I knew in law school were way below others in ability, and presumably are less competent lawyers now (if they ever passed the bar), and I would never let a black MD touch me or anyone I care about, knowing how AA has seriously watered down admissions standards to medical schools for blacks.
As for the GOP attracting more blacks of only it can figure out how, what a load of crap. No matter what the GOP does, no matter how many Michael Steeles it can find, it will make NO difference. Blacks have figured out that the Democratic Party is a far superior vehicle for black ethnic/racial interests, period. And the Obama phenomenon has cemented this for a generation or two.
Obama’s numbers are dropping like a rock now among whites, who have figured out they’re elected a less than competent race man (to be fair to Obama, he never pretended to be ‘post-racial’, that was all the MSM projecting onto him) – yet blacks still love him.
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Mandy B,
No, I am not in favor of segregation. What I am in favor of is public servants reflecting the communities they serve at least to a degree.
Also, please note that I nor anyone else Black here has “hammered on about past injustices”; indeed, I have merely responded to the thread’s subject matter, given my views and participating in the ensuing discussion. I don’t see how in so doing “emasculates” me or anyone else.
Lastly, wrt lower class Whites and hiring in White businesses, that point was never in dispute; please do not attempt to divert attention away from my point, which is, that Whites need to be much more honest and judicious in the rationales they use for not hiring Blacks. If the argument is one of “qualifications” then by that standard a whole heck of a lot of White folks shouldn’t have a job either. Again, I know of what I speak. Better to simply say you don’t wanna hire Blacks no matter what than to make up a bunch of BS reasons that a 5 year old can see right through.
Questions? Holla
O
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Oh please Obsidian.
So people should burn to death in major cities where Blacks and Hispanics are sizeable presences because quotas mandating Blacks and Hispanics produce incompetents?
So people should die because quotas mandating Black and Hispanic doctors (most will be assuredly incompetent) produce deadly mistakes by people who should never have been admitted into Med school, never passed through, never passed through internship, or passing boards? Given the Black Pass and accepting lesser ability just to have a Black Doctor?
You would not demand the NBA, which plays in many nearly all White areas, have mostly White players now would you? Or demand that the NFL have mostly White Wide Receivers, or D-lines, or running backs.
Face it, there are not going to be many qualified: White NBA or NFL players, Black Firemen or Doctors.
Black doctors currently make up according to the AMA, about 4% of all doctors. That’s about the qualified and interested doctors who are Black.
Public policy doesn’t care if you are “comfortable” with incompetent buffoons in the Fire or Police Dept. Or if I’m happy with guys who can’t win in the NBA or NFL but are White. The public demands performance not quotas, not just on game day but every moment when lives are on the line.
As far as the White insider network, please. Joe Average White guy has to be four times as good as the Asian/Indian H1B (who is a third cheaper) and Blacks hired in on mid-level firms are incompetent space-takers who are a dead-load carried for government bidding purposes only. There are very few White guys who went to Harvard, as opposed to Cal State Long Beach. Most insider nepotism is done by family firms hiring fellow relatives (and in SoCal that’s non-White immigrants).
You’re seeing the start of the Pushback. Whites face hard times, are told to go to the back of the bus for hiring in favor of Blacks and Hispanics, and even White Women are starting to dump Obama in his rationing of care and the Carbon Police, with Affirmative Action incompetent doctors checking their mammogram and “green jobs” boondoggles creating massive new AA programs for which they are not allowed.
AA race baiting is OK when government is small, doesn’t do much or touch much of the White majority’s lives, but a massive government expansion means AA has got to go, and Blacks get treated with no special favors (or bad treatment) ever.
Choose one: AA or big government.
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Whiskey: Don’t enddorse all your points, but I heartily agree that working-class whites in America are facing some very hard times, between economic contraction and AA/racial policies, and story seas are coming, politically because of this. The first national politician who harnesses this anger will go very far.
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oh, speaking of Gates the scholar, Mark Steyn pointed out this beauty…
“I confess I’ve been wary of taking Henry Louis Gates at his word ever since, almost two decades back, the literary scholar compared the lyrics of the rap group 2 Live Crew to those of the Bard of Avon. “It’s like Shakespeare’s ‘My love is like a red, red rose,’ ” he declared, authoritatively, to a court in Fort Lauderdale.
As it happens, “My luv’s like a red, red rose” was written by Robbie Burns, a couple of centuries after Shakespeare. Oh, well. Sixteenth-century English playwright, 18th-century Scottish poet: What’s the diff? Evidently being within the same quarter-millennium and right general patch of the North-East Atlantic is close enough for a professor of English and Afro-American Studies appearing as an expert witness in a court case. Certainly no journalist reporting Gates’s testimony was boorish enough to point out the misattribution.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OWU3NWRmYzY5MmZjOTZjN2NiYTMwOGI3ZTBiZDA5ZjM=
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obsidian:
do you have any stats or is this just your anecdotal experience?
on the other hand, that blacks and hispanics are severely less competitive at the elite collegiate level (as measured by standardized test scores) is something that is easily backed up. see ‘shape of the river’ written by two ultra-liberals:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_135/ai_54348518/
ok, but the black masses seem to vote overwhelmingly democratic. this seems consistent with them solidly following what the black elite leaders want. the black elite strongly favor aa and other forms of welfare. what major black leader (who has a sizable black following) is against aa or welfare? i can’t think of any.
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Looking white became desirable in india after the 1800s
Since 1800 BC, you mean?
What I am in favor of is public servants reflecting the communities they serve at least to a degree
what I am in favor is public servants being paid by taxes on exactly the same communities they serve
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””””””’Esquire
Whiskey: Don’t enddorse all your points, but I heartily agree that working-class whites in America are facing some very hard times, between economic contraction and AA/racial policies, and story seas are coming, politically because of this. The first national politician who harnesses this anger will go very far.”””””””’
The first dictator to harness the anger will go far.
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The first dictator to harness the anger will go far.
the first dictator will be the one who finally pushes whites too far. the second dictator will be the one following esquire´s prediction
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This L. Gates mini-drama bears a large resemblance to the false rape case at Duke 2006-7.
In both cases the PC battalions saw what looked like an opportunity to inflict a teaching moment on the rest of us. When the facts came in, the only thing these cases validily symbolized were that small time DAs and their PDs can be infinitely corrupt and that yelling at a cop outside your house can eventually get you arrested no matter who you are. Any other comment about these cases depended on someone being willing to lie about what really happened. Unfortunately, there always seem to be enough of them. But praise be to electronic records. Gates and his crowd shut up and turned about face when threatened with an airing of the tape of his unhinged, intimidating raving at the cop in front of a crowd.
What will cool the average persons ardor for AA is the public explanation of what has been done to MD qualifying exams. To get a decent % of AA admissions to pass, they have to be so easy that 100% of non-AA admits pass the first time.
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Mandy! XD, you stupid silly git, you do understand the part about “itching” as a joke, right? I’m not happy I rawdogged a hooker by accident, but she’s no dirtier than a whore like you.
I go for regular testing anyway.
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Obsidian,
You still have to answer the question that I posed, which you commited to answering. I answered your questions here, after which you committed to answering mine.
The question is :
Please provide the percentages in the 2008 Presidential election, for which whites voted for Obama vs. blacks voted for McCain.
You committed to answering the question, over here.
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Obama’s numbers are dropping like a rock now among whites,
Correction – Obama’s numbers are correcting among whites AND Asians AND Hispanics (at least the literate Hispanics).
Obama’s approval rating among blacks is 97%. Among the other 89% of the US population, it is 42% or so, which is lower than Bush’s ever got among the 89% of Americans who are non-black.
It would be supreme justice if Obama makes the GOP competitive with Hispanics and Asians again.
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Nothing is going to make the GOP very competitive among Hispanics, doubt Republicans can ever get more than 1/3 of Latino votes, given the demonization of the GOP in the MSM on issues such as immigration.
As for Asians, too soon to tell, but some reasons for GOP optimism if Obama keeps it up.
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Here’s tying Game into this thread: how do you debate politics with women who are politically correct?
My policy: don’t.
But, say, I really can’t stand the latest piece of drivel their lovely little heads sing-song? I mean, how many times must cute girls I run into disqualify herself from my onanistic fantasies by uttering somethign reidiculous like “isn’t it wonderful how this last election was so historic?”
I mean, ‘da FUCK!?
OK, so I am just gonna smile mysteriously. But sometimes I really feel the need to shove a red pill between into that pretty mouth. Best way to do it?
Not debating. It’s, like, looooserville. Instead, drop a stinkbomb.
And there is an art to dropping stinkbombs. Done right, you smell like roses, but they are enwafted in a foulness that follows them as they walk, unable to shake the skunk off thier PC platitude. Done right, dropping a stinkbomb is like taking a dump into their Louis Vouitton.
Roissy described a stinkbomb he once did. After some DC Chick glowed on about having just voted for 0bama, he said “voting is a waste of time.”
I did something similar at a SWPL party I attended once. Some emptyheaded little cutie made a genuflection to The One’s name. And I said “he’s a puppet.”
That’s it. Nothing else. And smiled sagely, looking at her with smoulderng sensuousness. She looked confused, tried to say “but. but…” to which I replied “puppet.” Again, with a smile.
Another time, a chick said something about O’s healthcare plan. I said “you’ll probably lose some of the health benefits you have with your current plan. It will be a lot tougher for you.” Then I smiled. And left it at that.
Any other stinkbomb ideas?
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What is funny is that blacks who became wealthy by being parasites on white tolerance (Gates, Wright, and Obama) still peddle their racism…
Yet, have no idea that in the rest of the world, blacks are far more poorly regarded than by whites in America.
In the continent of Asia, the belief that blacks are a half-way missing link between full-fledged humans and great Apes is a pretty mainstream concept. This is a widely believed evolutionary theory in the Arab world, India, and the Far East (places where virtually no blacks live), and is taught in many schools. There are museums with exhibits that show evolutionary progression with blacks as being the final step before the evolution modern man.
So what are black people going to do about that?
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PA,
Now that Obama has just a 41% approval rating among whites (and probably the same among Asians), you need to be far less restrained about this. Your distaste for Obama is no longer so rare as it was even 90 days ago.
I assume, of course, that you are not seeking to Game black women (no one who has any other choices is).
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Views on blacks outside the white world are MUCH more racist, undoubtedly; even in un-PC places in the white world (Russia, for instance), electing Obama is viewed as an act of collective white insanity.
As for girls and politics, best to avoid, since very few women are actually seriously informed in such matters (I have some male friends who are politically leftish but are smart and informed; I know zero female equivalents – for gals, it’s all about posturing).
However, if you wish to hurl a memorable stinkbomb, nothing better than guns. I regularly call myself a “gun nut” among SWPLers to shock and horrify, to good effect; great way to ruin a cocktail party. Helps that I actually do own a small arsenal (hard to do this in DC). For some gals, the shock value of this is so overwhelming that they feel their vulvas going moist depsite themselves.
If you really want to influence a gal politically (ie you like her on other grounds and it might be worth the trouble of moving her to non-stupid views over time), suggest a subtle approach with the occasional stinkbomb to show that you really are not kidding about your neanderthal views.
This only works if you actually are informed about political matters and don’t come off as a dittohead or someone easily pariodied on Stewart/Leibowitz, Colbert, etc.
Since my political views are very right wing but not “conserative” in the GOP sense, it’s easier to fake girls out by pointing out that I hate Bush too, etc (albeit for totally different reasons) — harder to do this if you are a party line Republican (in which case you need your head examined anyway).
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Esquire,
The thing about women and politics, single women are about 70% left-wing (and the 30% are not are just young conservatives who fully intend to marry and be good women).
But married women with kids are about 50/50, and thus not very different from men. Having a family causes a big swing in political views of women.
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Not inentionally going after married women here so the fact that they are much mroe conservative doesn’t help me much. 🙂
In Blue America – which encompasses the coasts and most of the urban enclaves between – nearly all (90%) single women are “liberal”, most in an undefined sense; they want the mommy state and all that goes with it. There are exceptions, but not enough to talk about, really (I know some certified right-wing chicks, most are cracked; hearing about the wonderfulness of O’Reilly when you’re trying to get her skirt up is only slightly less tedious than the Cult of St Obama).
If you are living in SWPL America, the pussy is on the Left, at least nominally.
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yeah, esquire, it’s disheartening to talk politics with chicks who actually, you know, make policy and realize they haven’t put any actual thought into it. “oh, we’re working on raising the minimum wage.” me, “well, what about the inflationary aspect of that move?” her “wait, what?”
I like the stinkbomb idea. Debating is worthless, especially since SWPL get hostile when confronted with people who actually disagree with them.
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If you are living in SWPL America, the pussy is on the Left, at least nominally.
On the ‘fashion’ left, not the committed, hardcore left. Most pretty girls are just about being fashionable, which is what their ‘political opinion’ is. pre-2000, before politics was fashionable, the same women just talked about TV or movies or whatever.
Try this : Pretend to be a hardcore leftist with a woman who considers herself enlightened because she supports Obama. Go deep into the academics of Marx and Trotsky, and the key differences between Soviet communism and Maoism. She will bore of this conversation very quickly, even if apparently on the same side.
The existence of a political opinion is itself merely a need to be fashionable.
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Yes and no. Concur that few young women have coherent, internally logical political views; for most, it is a fashionable posture, definitely. And getting into the ideological differences between Trotksy and Bukharin will turn off the pussy juices in five seconds flat.
However, keep in mind that 20something women today have been subjected to PC agitprop their whole lives in school and media – this is especially true if she went to an elite university – and the fog of cliches passing for progressive views will be very thick. Years of deprogramming will be required if you actually want to shut off only the worst stupidity coming out of her mouth.
Easiest way to shake her out of this is to fuck her well, good and hard, and then, once she’s used to getting fucked like an animal, discuss the uncomfortable biological (and therefore political) implications of her so enjoying, and squirting from, getting ridden hard by the top animal in the room.
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well, yeah, going inside baseball on either side of the aisle would be a snooze fest. Right of center girls rock, they’re just hard to find. And besides, this self-hatred towards GOP and right of center types (“oh, I am too cool to talk about Coulter or O’Reilly”) just pushes more people over to self-identify with the “cool” kids.
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“20something women today have been subjected to PC agitprop their whole lives in school and media”
stinkbomb, well, I try to look beyond Jon Stewart for cues on how to think.
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If you are getting your talking points from Coulter and O’Reilly, you are no better than the legions of nimrods who hand on Stewart’s every word.
There are right-wing girls out there, and some are incredible (plus the best fucks ever: nothing beats hot girls from a conservative, patriarchal culture, ie not here, for wanton fuckability), but many “conservative” girls in the USA are evangelicals and, aside from being dumb, are definitely not up for the three-hole-party I consider required by the third “date”.
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There is a lot of neg value on the airheaded political ‘views’ of single women.
Something like :
“You are opiniing about political science? That is sooo cute!”
I do think that the values of her parents can match or exceed all the programming of a faggotty school and college. There are many women who went to such colleges and still have centrist or even right-wing views.
The household trumps the school.
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I normally try to stay away from race and politics, but I’ll bite this time. It’s much easier to say that there should be no affirmative action when you’ve been raised in a relatively stable home, in a relatively stable neighborhood.
I’m not excusing blacks and Hispanics for not performing up to par academically, but when you spend your youth with parents as drug addicts, fathers locked up, working just to be able to eat (I started working at the age of 10), and don’t have the same safety, resources, and parents to help you out, then it is very difficult to perform well in school.
A lot of Caucasians act like we want to be in the circumstances that we’re in, they act like we want to be fuck ups, they act like we want to sell drugs, and they act like we want to go to prison. When all of your peers are drug dealers, and they pick fights with anyone attempting to do well in school, it’s very difficult to walk a straight line. And we sell drugs just to make things meet and have the things that a lot of Caucasians have by default.
Now, I know that many white males are against affirmative action, but really don’t try to understand the effects of it in the long run. Of course, the first generation or two of people who benefit from it aren’t going to be on par with Caucasians, simply because most of those Caucasians didn’t have to go through the same gauntlet that most blacks and Hispanics went through when they were younger.
However, what affirmative action does, is set up the next generation to perform well and on equal footing with their Caucasian counterparts. I have an aunt with degrees from Harvard and Yale, and another with a Ph.D from Ohio State, and if you look at their children, they perform MUCH better than what they could have when they were youths.
All of you guys complaining need to stop being so selfish and think about what it means in the long term. It means less blacks and Hispanics needing government monetary assistance (less people needing welfare) in the following generations and a bigger tax base to draw from now that the beneficiaries of affirmative action have decent incomes.
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Gunslinger
“The first dictator to harness the anger will go far.”
Watch for Nick Griffin in the 2010 UK General election
O
Have you heard of Ken Shikwati? you might like what he says
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Sure maybe if they based it on income but there are poor white people too. Stop being selfish and learn to join the army.
When the sign says you need a government job to be on top.
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Assanova, I disagree with your AA program helping blacks in the long run. It harms you in the long run. Like someone said, it casts doubt on the competence of black professionals.
I take no satisfaction in saying that I would never let a black doctor anywhere near me. A genuinely competent black MD needn’t be angry with me. He needs to be angry with people who promote AA.
What would help blacks in the log run is draconian disincentives against single motherhood.
…
By the way, what someone just said about stinkbombs being like negs — that was brilliant. The point of a stinkbomb is not to blurt out somethign crude and un-PC (like, Loooooserville!) but to do it in such a way that creates a DHV for you and your un-PC opinion.
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Whiskey,
As I recall, the NBA, NFL and the Major Leagues, all of whom are largely private businesses, also discriminated against Blacks FOR DECADES in this country, until they were forced to allow Blacks in; Jackie Robinson’s entry into Major League Baseball started it all-but guess what:
HE WASN’T THE BEST BLACK PLAYER IN BASEBALL.
In fact, he was actually somthing of a benchwarmer in he Negro Leagues; other far and away better players, like Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson, wouldn’t allow themselves the indignity that Robinson, and later other nascent Black players, like Philles’ Dick Allen, or the Pirates’ Roberto Clemente, had to take. These Men felt that their skills on the diamond should speak well enough for them. As it turns out, things didn’t work that way.
So, let’s not pretend like the major sports leagues were so altruistic, they weren’t; they saw that it was to their advantage to open it up to Black and Hispanic, etc, players and the rest as they say, is history, which is still being written-keep in mind that very few sports franchises are actually owned by Blacks, same deal wrt head coaching and general manager slots.
Now, as for your other AA comments: here in Philly Black Fire Chief Hairston hasn’t lost lives due to fire incompetence, in fact, the single worst fire in recent Philly history at least, the MOVE conflagration, occured on Sambor’s watch-a WHITE Fire Chief. True, Wilson Goode, Philly’s first Black Mayor, was on the scene as well, but the point is made, Blacks certainly don’t have the lock on incompetence.
And correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t put a specific number on representation…I simply noted the fact that employees of public services should broadly reflect the people whose charge it is they serve. That’s. It.
Public policy isn’t concerned with mere “merit”, its concerned w/a multitude of things, which tunnel-vision folks like you and OneSTDV simply can’t or won’t get (by the way, have you watched The Wire yet, or are you still making excuses?). Get this Whiskey: it matters to people like me, to be able to walk into an ER and see docs and head nurses who look like me. It matters to see cops and EMTS and firefighters who look like me. Don’t get it twisted, I didn’t put a specific number on it, and no, I don’t accept that all Black anything=incompetent and all White anything=competent. Only a grossly naive or fiendishly disengenuous individual would attempt to frame things in such a way.
Lastly, the White working class has been getting fucked over by their upper class betters for decades if not centuries in this country, that aint hardly the fault of Black or Brown folk. If they had as much balls as they like to think they do, they’d actually take the fight to those who actually matter and make the final decisions, instead of merely hatin’ on Darkies.
Holla back
O
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””””’Assanova,
A lot of Caucasians act like we want to be in the circumstances that we’re in, they act like we want to be fuck ups, they act like we want to sell drugs, and they act like we want to go to prison.””””’
The usual goal in committing crimes of murder for no reason is because the perpetrator wants to be dead.
I came up with a solution instead of trying to keep people on the planet give them an easy way out. Government assisted, add campaign condoned suicide for any volunteers. Nice pleasant environment music movie and some pleasant gas to go to eternal sleep to.
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mandy been here a while
not able to pull up much no link or I can’t access. Looks interesting from bits of info.
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AA does NOT primarily benefit poor blacks who actually need a boost. It mostly helps intelligent blacks who are going places anyway (the so-called Talented Tenth); blacks who get into the Ivy League on AA – I’m thinking here of both Mr & Mrs Obama – are people who would have gone to college anyway, now they get a free (or semi-free) ride at the best schools in the country. And AA does not get them off the guvmint dime, it just brings them in at a higher level (Mr & Mrs Obama, again, anyone?).
Poor blacks could use a lot of help, in a lot of ways, and I’d support that; I’m not so hot on giving money and spots at Columbia and Harvard Law to the likes of Barack Hussein, who graduated from the Punahou School (if you don’t know HI, one of the best private schools in the country) – remind me about all the terrible descrimination he faced, please, I’m all ears.
Bottom line: racism still exists in the country, on ALL sides, and poor blacks need help (also because they wear fucked-up clothes, talk and look like criminals, and have idiot named foisted on them), but the Obamas and their pal Gates are a perfect example of the moral depravity of what AA has wrought in this country.
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PA–
I agree.
In fact given the way I was raised, it took an act of will for me to consciously decided that without special and unusual individual proof about the doctor in question, I feel the same way about black doctors. As Esquire points out, they have easier entrance requirements in getting into med school due to AA. They also have much lower rates of passing post med school qualifying exams than other ethnicities do. One doesn’t want to have a doctor that is much more likely to have just barely squeaked by standards that were often lowered so that “enough” blacks would.
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You can certainly find some Blacks who will qualify for positions, objectively, as Astronauts, Navy Fighter Pilots, Firemen, policemen, senior supervisors of the same, and Doctors.
There just won’t be that many of them.
The reasons could be any number, my own favorite is the drastically changed sexual selection that favors nurturing personalities and inheritance for aggression, violence, and non-cooperation. You can see this at work in White Britain as well.
Whites (and others) not only now face manifestly incompetents (equivalent to the Lakers replacing Kobe Bryant with say, John Daly because Daly is White) in life-threatening areas: Doctors, Nurses, Firemen, Police. They face economic restrictions as Government is the employer of only resort, directly or through contracting. This is why FDR deported every Mexican he could find (including doubtless some American citizens) and prevented Blacks from participating much in the New Deal.
Hard Times plus economic spoils system = division of the pie according to racial strength. The current system of Blacks + Hispanics + White Women +( marginal numbers, Asians and Gays) = electoral victory is non-sustainable when White women care about some incompetent misdiagnosing their mammogram, and two year waits for breast cancer treatment. Let alone being shoved aside for more Black/Hispanic quotas in employment.
Obama’s only strategic asset is the rich White female oriented Media. Katie Couric and the View and Chris Matthews.
—————-
I’ve always avoided politics, since my own are so right-wing. I’ve always tried to project the cynical “they’re all crooks, set one group to watch the other” attitude.
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assanova:
assanova, if AA really does ‘close the racial gap’ for ensuing generations, i think most people would agree its end justifies its means. other than your own family, do you have any actual evidence of this ‘closing of the racial gap’ in academic performance?
i strongly doubt such evidence exists. i’d love to be proven wrong, however.
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obsidian:
So, let’s not pretend like the major sports leagues were so altruistic, they weren’t; they saw that it was to their advantage to open it up to Black and Hispanic, etc, players and the rest as they say, is history, which is still being written-keep in mind that very few sports franchises are actually owned by Blacks, same deal wrt head coaching and general manager slots.
you didn’t answer whiskey’s assertion. you just argued something he didn’t bring up and changed the goalposts of this debate.
nobody reasonable is arguing there wasn’t serious discrimination in the past in these areas of sports. whiskey’s point was do we use AA in the present for major sports to bring about equality in outcome.
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blockquotes needed.
obsidian:
you didn’t answer whiskey’s assertion. you just argued something he didn’t bring up and changed the goalposts of this debate.
nobody reasonable is arguing there wasn’t serious discrimination in the past in these areas of sports. whiskey’s point was do we use AA in the present for major sports to bring about equality in outcome.
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””Freak Show,
nobody reasonable is arguing there wasn’t serious discrimination in the past in these areas of sports. whiskey’s point was do we use AA in the present for major sports to bring about equality in outcome.””””””
Sports are what the future governement jobs are gonna look like. Almost 100 percent minority.
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PA:
“What would help blacks in the log run is draconian disincentives against single motherhood.”
Great idea – but this would help society in general. Blacks are not the sole race perpetuating this downfall. OOW births are less a racial issue and more of a generational issue.
@doug1 et al. re: black doctors
Minorities may get through on lesser standards – that’s a downfall of the AA system. And all if not most governmental attempts to distribute opportunities have some flaws along with some advantages.
But let’s also consider that for all the white professionals you see (of all fields), their version of AA is the good ‘ol boys network, and also the fact that, well, they’re white and benefit from their whiteness w/o the need of program measures. Do you think that all the white professionals are qualified for their jobs?
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Assanova-
There’s nothing whatsoever selfish about my opposition to AA. It never affected me. I was always above it’s reach by grades and esp. testing, and then performance. I’m against it for principled reasons.
there was a decent argument for affirmative action for blacks (but not women or Hispanics) when it was first instituted, a generation ago. The strongest argument was that it was important to create a sizable number of black role models rather than just a handful. There no longer is anywhere near so compelling an argument, and many compelling ones against it. Affirmative action should be ended.
Those supporting, which is a decided minority of the country, about 30-35% by most polls and all that are worded neutrally and fairly, argue that black lagging educational attainment and incomes show that it’s still needed.
That assumes that black IQ isn’t lower for largely genetic or other heritable reasons (home culture) but is instead entirely or almost entirely “environmental”. Due to the wealth of their parents per se for example rather than the fact that smart parents tend to make more money. Instead the evidence strongly shows that IQ is heavily genetically determined, at least if it isn’t greatly suppressed by terrible nutrition.
It’s maybe 80% genetically determined in middle class and above children (which includes 3/4 of blacks these days) and 50-60% genetically determined in the poorest classes.
It’s these middle class black kids (some of whom are upper middle class and even upper class), overwhelmingly, that are the beneficiaries of AA today.
It should end. We should face facts. Blacks aren’t as smart as whites or Asians on average and that’s never going to change. They aren’t going to earns as much money on average in a technological society where most good jobs are done better with a higher amount of intelligence, at least up to a fairly high level (say 145). People are NOT born equal. Not in athletic ability, or attractiveness, or smarts. (BTW the Declaration of Independence did NOT mean anything different. What Jefferson and his editors meant was that all men are born with equal natural rights and dignity, rather than into different qualities such as aristocrat or freeman or serf, not that they are born with equal abilities. He believed in a natural aristocracy of ability in fact.)
As well culture matters, specifically the mix of family micro culture and cultural influences on a learning child. It’s natural that good family values help and poor ones hurt. Two parent families help and single mom ones hurt, A LOT, all the evidence overwhelmingly shows. So rising can take a few generations.
Of course there are other jobs where charisma and leadership matter much more, esp. once IQ is over a certain threshold. But outside of sports and entertainment that will often be about 115 for the higher paid jobs and a far higher percentage of whites than blacks make this cut. FAR higher percentage. About 16% of all whites have this or a higher IQ. Only about 2.3% of blacks do. (This sort of thing is easy to calculate for yourself using Excel’s normdist function.)
To put statistics on the doctor choice issue, only 0.13% of blacks have an IQ over 30, compared to 2.3% of blacks. I don’t want any doctor with less than a 130 IQ coming near me. Sure there are black doctors with that IQ but alot with lower ones, due to AA in it’s various forms. Far fewer whites with lower ones I’d rather have one with an IQ of 140 or above. That comes it at .01% of blacks but .38% of whites. I.e. about 35 times as many whites, before you consider that there are 8x as may whites as blacks, so thare are 275x as many whites as blacks in America with IQs of 140 or above. When you consider that 4% of doctors in America are black, that’s more than a little alarming.
There are most definitely brilliant blacks. Just less of them than whites or Asians, while AA can make it hard for clients to tell until it’s too late. Without AA that wouldn’t be true.
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PA; Dreamer
I’ve got a great idea. End welfare and state madated child support for single mothers. You know, as in the old days. Add to that resumed media and other public scorn for them. You know, like in the old days. When the rates of single motherhood (and divorce) were vastly less. Those pre feminist,or at least heavily feminist, days.
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dreamer:
i’ll start believing unqualified whites are hired in massive numbers when i start to see actual evidence that shows that whites are doing poorly on standardized tests relative to their financial attainment- as opposed to anecdotal data from one’s personal/family experiences.
i agree that policy decisions for this issue don’t need to single any race out. however, oow births still severely disproportionately affect blacks (and to a lesser extent, latinas) compared to whites.
on the issue of racism holding people back (to you and obisidian)-
1) the bell curve has pretty strong data that shows that once you normalize for race, there is no statistical difference in income between blacks, whites and latinos. in fact, blacks and latinos actually earn a little more than white of the same iq (the difference was not statistically significant though).
2) if racism holds certain groups back to such an extent, why are indian americans, jews and asian americans so successful from a median income or educational attainment standpoint- even relative to WASPs? why are there 1st and 2nd generation progeny, as well? why do groups like the hmong arrive in america relatively destitute and now show convergence to the american median income?
on the issue of closing of the racial gap due to AA (for assanova)-
1) abigail thernstrom and her husband showed the educational attainment for the children of high income blacks was actually (on average) lower than for the children of the lowest income whites. again, shouldn’t AA have shown a gap that closed or narrowed in ensuing generations?
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doug:
very true. john mcwhorter covers this subject in detail in his books. the chief beneficiaries of AA at the elite collegiate level are middle/upper class NAM’s.
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I agree that AA shouldn’t be based on race alone; anyone from low income upbringings should have the same AA opportunities, regardless of race. To those talking about blacks being dumber than Caucasians and Asians really need to read Outliers by Malcom Gladwell. He goes into the differences between intelligence with the races. What it comes down to is opportunity and family values; and he actually provides examples of what happens when low income kids are given opportunities to excel.
I’m not sure about the details, but when someone becomes a doctor or lawyer or anything professional, isn’t there some kind of exam that one has to pass that certifies them as competent? If not, then that’s news to me.
Someone asked about others second generation As beneficiaries doing better. I use to work for the local transit company and my boss was black. His son got straight A’s in a suburban high school and went off to play soccer for Harvard, I believe. I had an 8th grade history teacher that just got his Ph.D, and in class he would always talk about how his son never got a B (his son was in middle school at the time).
My point is that the effects of AA are having an effect. It’s just that you aren’t seeing them over time, especially if you don’t really hang around people that are beneficiaries of AA.
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Dreamer–
There isn’t a “GOOD OLD BOYS NETWORK”. I should know. I’m in networks but not THE NETWORK. Instead their are myriad networks of friends and business acquaintances who try to help each other out. It’s partly honest evalution through personal experience and partly helping friends and allies out in a mutual aid fashion, or after a while as mentoring.
These networks tend to be stronger, or work harder to help more remote acquaintances out, among minorities including Jews than they do majority whites. Though sure the more highly placed can be of more help. (Double plus for the strength of Jewish networks.) This was another justification for AA. It’s been going on for more than a generation.
Though note, America’s other minority ethnicities didn’t need that help and have still made it, though not all to exactly the same degree. Irish, Jews, Italians, Poles, Chinese, Japanese etc. were all considered very alien and non American in their day and were all heavily discriminated against to begin with but all made it. Other groups are making it now though there’s a lot less discrimination now, such as Indians, Vietnamese, etc. Some other groups have lagged forever. Not only blacks but most ethnicities of American Hispanics (who tend to have peasant and often heavily indio origins).
As for benefiting from our whiteness, that’s completely a leftist myth and is total horeshiite. It’s far easier to succeed at the highest levels in America today with the same IQ and cultural attitude towards hard work, (including people leadership and political skills), rather than being owed things, as a black or Hispanic than as a white male.
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here gunny, you might like it. NicckGriffin is head of the BNP:
http://www.savevid.com/video/bnp-brand-new-leather-jacket-asylum-song-for-united-kingdom.html
Maybe he’ll want North America back in British hands ???
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^AA beneficiaries, not “As”.
Also, I saw that someone asked why black children of AA beneficiaries aren’t doing as well now on tests or whatever. And to that I say that it takes time. You can’t expect something like that to happen over night. Anyone knows that 1-2 generations simply isn’t enough, as the first generation still maintains that “ghettoness” and still haven’t developed the same values as their Caucasian counterparts.
In his book “Outliers”, he goes over why Asians perform better than whites, and it all comes down to family values carried over. Bottom line? You just need to give blacks and Hispanics a couple of generations to fully assimilate with their counterparts. It’s not going to happen overnight. You can’t just expect people to get things perfect on the first go around; you will see gradual improvements over time.
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Assanova
The effort is to have the exam be tough enough to certify them as barely competent, yes.
Do you want a barely competent doctor?
Far more blacks than whites or Asians have to take the med boards again and again to finally squeak by. The exams were dumbed down so that more NAMs would pass, apparently.
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They dumb downed the exams because of race? News to me. anyhow, like I said before, it has a lot to do with the support structure and family values. I use to date Asian girls back in middle and high school, and I know that their parents are very strict about schooling from the very beginning, because they don’t want their family to look bad to the other Asian families. They’re always talking about their family reputation and honor.
Caucasians in general are more lenient than Asians about schooling. And if you’re black or Hispanic? You are pretty much independent once you make it to middle school; hence why so many blacks and Hispanics drop out of school and/or end up in jail; there’s not a lot of support from the family and the parents don’t really pay attention to what their kids are doing in school.
Either way, I don’t care who you are; I will always respect anyone that can make it through the horror of Organic Chemistry in college.
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Ending AA is just the flag issue on even handed treatment of the races.
We should drop the whole message that blacks are “owed”. That’s terribly destructive to really reaching their potential. And they don’t.
SAT scores of blacks actually over predict their performance in college. I.e. they do less well than their SATs (more or less IQ tests) predict. Higher drop out rates and lower grades. That’s despite higher black enrollment in gut majors like African American studies, where standards are much lower at many institutions. Priorities and cultural values are at work here.
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There isn’t a “GOOD OLD BOYS NETWORK”. I should know. I’m in networks but not THE NETWORK.
-doug1
I’ve seen the GOB network for myself, socialized w/ members, watched them in action, observed, etc…. don’t think there’s any denying it exists. You’re not a member, ok, but I definitely know people who are…
@Assanova
I like your views re: improvement of races through generations.
“To those talking about blacks being dumber than Caucasians and Asians really need to read Outliers by Malcom Gladwell. He goes into the differences between intelligence with the races. What it comes down to is opportunity and family values; and he actually provides examples of what happens when low income kids are given opportunities to excel.”
– Agreed. Opportunity + family values, something that, largely owing to societal / historical factors, is problematic in the black community more so than in communities of other races.
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Whiskey
— I’ve always tried to project the cynical “they’re all crooks, set one group to watch the other” attitude.
Good call on avoiding politics with chicks. But a bad tactic. World-weariness and cynicism make you sound old and not exciting. A better option if you want to avoid the topic is to say “I’m not too much into politics.”
Freakshow
— if AA really does ‘close the racial gap’ for ensuing generations
I don’t think it was ever intend to do so. Mencius once threw out a provocative thought that I think has some merit: the Brahmin ruling class wants AA in order to “diversify” every and all workplace.
So that a bunch of conservative white guys — be it firemen or executives — aren’t left alone to talk all conservative an’ shit. Mencius compared this to the “walls have ears” Stasi system in old East Germany.
Dreamer
— Do you think that all the white professionals are qualified for their jobs?
Some aren’t. I’m in the professional world, and I have never seen an incompetent white guy who got promoted, or one who didn’t end up fired or marginalized in his position.
“Good old boys network” surely isn’t 100% blindly meritorious… but there is an edge to collaboratingn with people you see eye to eye with and trust. Like same-frat/college alumni, etc. But even in such networks, at higher levels, these guys are very smart and competent. They wopuldn’t be in that “GOB” network otherwise.
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PS. Dreamer – are you a white chick? if so, your constant anti-white-guy comments are a very unattractive quality. Just sayin’, if you also do this in real life.
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””””’PA,
So that a bunch of conservative white guys — be it firemen or executives — aren’t left alone to talk all conservative an’ shit. Mencius compared this to the “walls have ears” Stasi system in old East Germany.””””’
I am leading the fight on that though. I say what the fuck is up but I am last man standing lol
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Getting masters you got to cut her slack lol
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Also, regarding the Jews, Italians, Chinese etc. doing so well, so fast; I’d like to point out that when they came over, they still had their family values and heritage to draw from. I can’t explain Hispanics, but if you look at blacks, almost all of them have no idea what their old culture/values were like from their native countries.
If you were to take a Chinese person, and place them anywhere in the world, then I’m pretty sure they would reach their maximum potential because they know where they came from and what values to emphasize. Black people didn’t have that advantage. Almost all of the Asians that came over carried their strict values about family honor and schooling.
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Obsidian,
You still have to answer the question that you committed to answering.
Here is a clue, the inability to follow through on promised obligations could have something to do with the extreme economic failure of black people, everywhere on Earth.
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but if you look at blacks, almost all of them have no idea what their old culture/values were like from their native countries.
Yes. And this is the biggest favor that the white man ever did for blacks.
Have you seen the state of black people in Africa? That is the outcome of their old culture/values (if any).
Getting them detached from that barbarism and dysfunction was precisely what would have helped them prosper in the long run. Unfortunately, they clearly have not abandoned their African barbarism.
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Dreamer
I call bullshiite Dreamer.
You are talking completely through you hat.
In fact fabricating and exaggerating to suit your black ideology.
There are networks at all kinds of different levels. There isn’t just one network. There are high level NYC I banker networks which also have very high level political connections in both parties, there are Hollywood networks with those connections, and doctor networks, CEO networks in related business areas, other high level business executive networks, and many other networks. There’s the Davos level networking that goes on as well, and that’s the reason for it’s existence.
No Dreamer, there isn’t THE NETWORK and you haven’t socialized within it. I have/do participate in high level networks. You don’t. You got spun some flash, or drew wrong conclusions from limited glimpses.
As well since you’re a black female, how do you get to socialize in THE white ol’boy network you’re making up? The one that excludes women and minorities?
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I second the BS call on ‘dreamer’ (an apt name, BTW).
The ‘Network’ she claims to have seen is a television network.
Yes, a television network.
This is yet another example of women not being able to distinguish television from reality.
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Assanova–
Gladwell writes well. He also writes glib, low content, junk food. Middle brow at best.
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Assanova–
Fine. If that’s good enough for you, you go to black doctors.
I won’t, not without unusual demonstration of outstanding individual performance that I can believe, rather than that which is probably falsified by AA in it’s many forms.
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PA–
No, she’s black.
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Question for Rum: what’s the most difficult hurdle to clear, in terms of serving as a proxy for future competence as a doctor?
– good pre-med grades
– high MCAT
– med school grades
– making it through residency
– passing a state medical license exam
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Dreamer
You never said what you thought of this idea, by way of the punishing provisions you agreed with PA were necessary to impose on single moms to get them not to be, but pointed out (rightly) that this would help all races:
What say you Dreamer?
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””””””’Assanova
I agree that AA shouldn’t be based on race alone; anyone from low income upbringings should have the same AA opportunities, regardless of race. ””””””””’
What they need to do is teach in school things that are usefull in real life. Plus encourage low income into the trades. Shit I wish I would have went mechanic, electrician, anything other than just high school graduate.
Teach things like there are places anyone can go funded by the governement where you can get all kinds of information free on starting and succeeding in a small business.
Give out loans to anyone who wants to improve something.
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Imagine if I would have taken 4 years of carpentry well when the time comes I would be able to build my own resteraunt. As it is now I will have to learn. It will be fun but what if you can aquire these types of skills in addition to regular schoolwork.
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Being able to fix a vehicle game me a sense of pride. Being able to send in repedative reports. Does not.
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@gig re European eyes:
I could see how that might be odd to people who normally don’t see blue or green eyes. Or have never seen them.
@lurker:
“Mandy! XD, you stupid silly git, you do understand the part about “itching” as a joke, right?”
Wait, you’re the joke? Must be because I was laughing at you.
“I’m not happy I rawdogged a hooker by accident, but she’s no dirtier than a whore like you.”
Hmmm…let’s see…
vir·gin (vûrjn)
n.
1. A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
2. A chaste or unmarried woman; a maiden.
3. An unmarried woman who has taken religious vows of chastity.
4. Virgin The Virgin Mary.
5. Zoology A female insect or other arthropod that produces fertile eggs without copulating.
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or being a virgin; chaste.
2. Being in a pure or natural state; unsullied: virgin snow.
3. Unused, uncultivated, or unexplored: virgin territory.
4. Existing in native or raw form; not processed or refined.
5. Happening for the first time; initial.
6. Obtained directly from the first pressing: virgin olive oil.
7. Zoology Producing fertile eggs without copulating.
“I go for regular testing anyway.”
No one cares.
@PA, etc. about PC girls and Obama:
I don’t know how effective this will be, but you could always ask,”So, what prompted you to vote for him? You know, besides Health Care and his race? Please don’t say change.”
Something along those lines. Masculinize it.
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@Gunslingergregi:
There are a lot of public schools that offer those programs; unfortunately, most high schools that do are magnet schools and only accept students on an application basis, and in some instances, through a lottery system.
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assanova:
your point really is that you’ve got some personal anecdotes that AA is having an effect. it goes against other data, like the thernstrom’s study of sat scores among various income groups and races, that suggests that the racial gap in education is not closing.
that said, even if AA is having a positive effect on blacks/latinos, it needs to be weighed against the corrosive effect it has on the meritocratic system.
1) as you said, this doesn’t really explain latinos. 2) it also doesn’t explain the black- white IQ gap’s persistence on the international level. 3) it doesn’t explain black IQ’s in white households where they’ve been adopted into at a young age. 4) moreover, are you really suggesting that even middle/upper class american blacks truly still don’t have cultures that are conducive to educational attainment?
it would seem that if the children from middle/upper class black groups don’t come from cultures that allow the closing of the racial gap in education or IQ, there is little reason (at this point) to believe it will ever close without genetic engineering to rectify probable cognitive inequities.
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You never said what you thought of this idea,
Black people don’t answer questions that would reveal their prejudices to be unsupported by facts and logic. Obese-dian proved this earlier, as dreamer also is.
The lack of integrity that this shows is part of why black people will always underperform economically.
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@GNP- get your facts str8, blks shipped to America were 13% of slaves brought into the new world. Btw, your obsession with blks is well noted and pathetic.
Lurker
*walks over and back hands lurker pimp whose ho gave him short money *
*shakes luker until his head snapes back*
You know I don’t care for your ugly side but human being to human being, this is the dumbest thing(besides have an 18hr agrument with mandy & race stuff ) that you’ve done. You need to go the emergency room immediately and ask for anti virals because you’ve possibly been exposed to HIV.
Mandy! XD
Lucifer, I’ve figured out Willard’s name.
William+retard= Willard.
*DEAD FAINT*
OMG mandy, you’re a doll.
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chic noir
@GNP- get your facts str8, blks shipped to America were 13% of slaves brought into the new world.
I think the number is more like 5%.
OMG mandy, you’re a doll.
Weeeeeeeeeeee, Girl Power!
Ditzbag.
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Ditz Noir,
They were only 5%. Read a book for once, or is the fact that the pages in the book are made of paper that is WHITE mean the book is racist and must not be read?
Furthermore, you don’t seem to care about the other 95%, do you?
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no willard, the number is 13%. Storefront is not an accurate source.
Weeeeeeeeeeee, Girl Power!
Ditzbag.
From you this is a hug. I know you missed c. noir’s presence.
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I know you missed c. noir’s presence.
I kinda did. Now go get David Alexander out of his masturbatorium. I kinda miss him too.
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Apeman,
Honestly, I couldn’t care less what any Asian, here or abroad, thought of me or Black folk in general, especially since I can easily point to the fact that Asians from Japan and China, Korea to Thailand LOVE Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Chris Tucker and Chris Rock, Beyonce’ Jay-Z, etc et al. Its a very well known fact that Asian kids both here and there wanna be like Black kids and emulate our styles.
So, as per usual, your point is another non-sequitur.
Next (hopefully on point) question?
O
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The rawness tried to make fun. Turned that shit around kinda sad really when someone acts better but yet is worse.
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DA Chic Noir missing at same time. Both live in NYC coincidense I think not.
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Obsidian, if Vanilla Ice died instead of Michael Jackson earlier this month, would I still see vendors all over DC selling Vanilla Ice T-shirts to black kids like they have been selling MJ’s?
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@ChicNoir:
“*DEAD FAINT*
OMG mandy, you’re a doll.”
:3
Thank yous.
WillardLibby pretends to be angry about it, but he secretly likes the female attention.
Sssshhhh don’t tell him.
@PA:
“I kinda did. Now go get David Alexander out of his masturbatorium. I kinda miss him too.”
This prompted some really bad images in my head. ;-;
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Its a very well known fact that Asian kids both here and there wanna be like Black kids and emulate our styles.
They like “black styles” (probably to annoy their parents).
They detest actual blacks.
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Obese-dian,
You are still dodging the simple question that you committed to answer. I know that keeping their word means nothing to black people, but you should be better than that.
The question is :
In the 2008 POTUS election, what percentage of whites voted for Obama, and what percentage of whites voted for Obama.
Just post the percentages here, which you can find with a tiny bit of Googling. A very simple task.
Show that you have the courage of a man, and answer.
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chic noir
no willard, the number is 13%. Storefront is not an accurate source.
Estimate of black slaves brought to the New World = 10 million.
Estimate of black slaves brought to North America = 500,000
% of total = 5%
Or –
Estimate of black slaves brought to the New World = 10.5 million.
Estimate of black slaves brought to North America = 645,000
% 0f the total = 6.15%
Now go back to milking your goats, Ethiopian airhead.
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Obese-dian,
I can easily point to the fact that Asians from Japan and China, Korea to Thailand LOVE Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Chris Tucker and Chris Rock, Beyonce’ Jay-Z, etc
Children over the world also love Jumbo the elephant, Koko the Gorilla, Knut the Polar Bear, Bubbles the chimpanzee, and Keiko the Orca. What is your point?
You have absolutely not disproved the fact that Arabs, Indians, and Chinese actually have textbooks and museums that show black people as the final proto-human step before the emergence of the modern man. Museums in Tehran, Delhi, and Shanghai have such exhibits.
So what are you going to do about that? How will you blame whitey?
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Sorry, the question is :
In the 2008 POTUS election, what percentage of blacks voted for McCain, and what percentage of whites voted for Obama?
That is the question, Obsidian. You committed to answer it. Now show that you are better than other black people and follow through on your commitment.
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PA
In the US, Canada, European systems with which I am familiar the hardest step, by far, for most people, is getting accepted to Med School in the first place. Spots are limited, lots of resources are expended, and there is an assumption that many kids are left out who could have done the work – so, once someone is in a spot, every effort is made to get each one to finish.
MCAT and grades are looked as a package. Great GPA with hard courses in a recognized undergrad school gives one some leeway in MCAT scores. But good scores usually go along with that as well. A lot of attention is paid to an applicants demonstrated ability to make good grades while taking 15+ semester hours of non-BS courses. Finishing ones undergrads degree in 4 years looks way better than 5. Longer than five is a huge question mark.
Failing the first year will result in a chance to repeat the year in most cases. That is not really generosity on the schools part. The 1st year of med school is a miserable grind for 90+ % of the students. It would be like West Point letting someone repeat their Plebe year. Any kid willing to do so is proving his or her gonadal fortitude.
State Licensing Exams vary by state. There multiple National Board Exams that serve to rank you for competition for residencies. Many states use the Natiional Bds and set cut offs for licensure
In most specialties, there are extended written and oral exams to qualify for ” Board Certification” at the end of 4-7 years of residency. This is where nuts are cut. Typically 20-30% failure rate for each part. You get 3 tries then its back to repeat a year of residency.
The results of these tests MATTER. No one sleeps well beforehand.
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http://www.firefightingnews.com/article-US.cfm?articleID=67708
””””””””’In 2008, the 2nd Circuit affirmed Arterton’s decision, and Torre petitioned the Supreme Court to take the case. When the petition was filed, a well-known law firm with 12 offices in the Unites States, Europe and Asia agreed to take the case for the city without compensation.
“The city has benefited from the pro bono assistance provided by the law firm WilmerHale before the United States Supreme Court,” said Joseph. ””””””””””
Update what the firefighters are up against.
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Maybe try focusing on free schooling for everyone for whatever. At least if people are going to school probably not doing harm to society. Then won’t be in the dangerzone from 18 to 21.
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Assanova–
The main reason black people don’t have that advantage is because they can’t point to much genuine high black civilizational achievement. No Egypt wasn’t predominantly or elite black during any of it’s high phases, though it was briefly black Nubian ruled in a low civilizational and way past it’s glory phase. It emerged again under Greek rule and their establishment of the world leading intellectual city of Alexandria.
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Has anyone else noticed a slightly more antagonistic tone from Obsidian in this thread?
He’s starting to rant a little and his “whitey racism” narrative is starting to poke through.
I had thought he was better than that, maybe I was mistaken.
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http://www.badeagle.com/
American Indian view of these shenanigans.
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Let’s not kid ourselves. Most of China is poor, illiterate, dysfunctional (ask Singapore’s founder Lee Kwan Yew about Chinese sanitary habits — having been in China I can attest they are appalling) at best. Only a thin coastal elite emigrated, and they had family connections back home.
You could take the dirt poor peasants of Sichuan or Central China, and they would not compare favorably to the hillbillies of Appalachia and probably those of Chiapas.
As for the “Network” that’s a ridiculous statement. Hollywood is rife with complaints about: Scientologists, Harvard Writers, Gays, and Ivy League stuff. Actors complain about Scientologists and Gays who favor their own. Writers complain about the Ivy League Mafia (Simpsons and Conan’s show are almost entirely Harvard Lampoon grads, and most of the writers for Fox, NBC, and ABC shows are Ivy League grads, the dominance of Bruckheimer on CBS mitigates that somewhat).
Nevertheless, my point still stands. Affirmative Action is only politically supportable when it does not impact daily lives of the majority White population and produce unbearable pain.
The requirement in TARP to produce quotas for Black and Hispanic Doctors will require dumbing down the MCAT and Med School exams and Boards that all but the most stupid can pass to get enough Black and Hispanic doctors. There just are not that many high-IQ, non-criminal, studious and disciplined Black and Hispanic men to increase the numbers enough to meet the quotas. Which means in effect separate, easy tests for Black and Hispanic doctors, nearly all of whom will be deadly incompetents.
That’s not supportable. No White Women wants to die of Breast Cancer because her incompetent Black Radiologist read the x-rays and MRI scans wrong. Which is exactly what Obama proposes along with rationing and year plus wait times.
As for WHY? there are so few intelligent, disciplined, and non-criminal Black and Hispanic guys? Duh. Sexual selection. As long as Lauren London sets the tone (google her “Lauren London Thugs” quote — short version she loves thugs and killers) then that’s exactly what most Black and Hispanic guys will do their level best to turn into. The same thing happened in White Britain. Home of the Chav. Thugs make poor doctors, all in all.
PA good point on the cynicism. I’ve said that as my standard line since I was 16. Time to change it up I suppose. Old habits die hard I guess.
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whiskey,
You are going to be disappointed by the future, but cognitive dissonance cannot be cured. It is your choice.
So tell me, when things do not work out as you would like them.. what are you going to do?
PS- Do you really believe that IQ or cleverness are the same as intelligence. If the people who went to ivy leagues were truly intelligent, the world would be a much better place.
But they are just trained monkeys who are well positioned for playing games to reach the ‘top’… that is all. Intelligence is a different thing altogether and I doubt that you would know it even if you saw it.
If you believe that famous universities in the west produce intelligent people, why did every almost every major innovation come from people who were in non-famous universities. Even worse, established monkeys in these ‘famous’ universities tried to block/ discredit/ ignore these innovations. Why?
Do not confuse social clubs with places of learning!
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You know, I just knew it wouldn’t be long until the IQ argument was unfurled, so let’s get guys like Doug (who as I recall, never really responded to my points):
If indeed the vast majority of Blacks, regardless of income etc, simply aren’t as smart, and by extension, as qualified as Whites and Asians, what should we do w/them? Since all people aren’t born equal, no matter what they do, only logic would dictate that we have a kind of de facto Jim Crowism, right? Afterall, the supposed inherent inferiority of Blacks was at the heart of the Jim Crow argument. I mean, if we’re gonna shatter “pretty lies” why not simply come out with it?
The only way the Thomas Jefferson (quite interesting, in light of his own actions in life, hmm?) argument works, is if you essentially have a two-tiered system, one for Whites and honorary Whites, which basically means Asians, and another for Blacks. I’m excluding Hispanics here because their legal status is in question; not so for African Americans, unless you wanna take the inherent inferiority argument another logical step further and repeal the 14th Amendment enmasse.
So-anyone up for revoking my American citizenship-since, I cannot possibly be as smart as any of you White people here?
And if you do agree with such a premise, how do you then square the fact that for so long, Whites were completely cool w/having clearly inferior people raise their kids, builnd their houses and other buildings, tend their crops and fight in their wars? For all of Jefferson’s flowery talk, he certainly didn’t have any problem gettin’ it in-literally-w/a purportedly inferior Woman-right?
And you see, that’s yet another reason why so many Blacks harbor negative views of Whites, because you simply won’t come out and do the damn thing-you believe that Jim Crow was useful and good, because it kept Blacks in their rightful place-below Whites. If you honestly believe that Black folk are inherently less intelligent than Whites and Asians, there is no other conclusion to arrive at.
Of course, this argument begins to breakdown when Asians clearly outclass Whites on most tests and by extension elite college admissions, etc. Hmm.
More in a sec.
O
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OneSTDV,
“Antagonistic”? I think I’ve proven myself to be far and away one of the more cordial, respectful, respectable and reasonabl voices in this forum, you possibly included.
I don’t hate “Whitey”. Never have. I do on the other hand have an intense dislike for some of the underhanded things some Whites do. Please see my earlier remarks above, which speaks to this, the Jim Crow argument, which is in essence, what you’re arguing for, One. You’re just not Man enough to say it.
Apeman’s comments are indeed humorous, just not in the ways he intended.
O
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Apeman,
Again, I couldn’t care less what Asians or Indians think of me or Blck folks in general. So what? Not my problem, nor is it the problem of any African American really. It doesn’t affect my life one way or another, they are free to think and believe anything they want.
*shrug*
That said, what I noted about the overwhelming popularity of Blacks in these lands is something YOU have failed to address, Apeman. If what you said is true, how then do you explain what I said? I’ll be awaiting your answer.
As for McCain’s vote totals among Blacks, that answer is easy, virtually none. Why? Well, several reasons, but the most important was that Blck folks wanted to support one of their own. Last time I heard, that wasn’t against the law.
The.
End.
Barack Hussein Obama Jr is indeed your President, Apeman. Get used to it.
O
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Lucifer,
Excellent points to Whiskey; and I’d just like to crank it up a notch…
The other day I was talking to a good friend of mine, and he was telling me that the rapper NaS was going through a very nasty, and very public, divorce from his wife, the singer Kelis; she just had their son last week.
I said to my friend, that NaS, who is someone I’ve always liked as a rapper, was stupid as a person, as a Man, because he threw away something good and hurt his career. I told my friend that Jay-Z was far and away more successful, as a rapper, businessman, and in love.
As far as I know he’s not formally educated. Yet Jay-Z is hands down, by any estimation, a true American success story. And, note, he’s never been in the headlines for going to jail, beating anyone up, Baby Mama Drama, etc. Rocawear is a huge success. Had hit records for what, 6 years straight? Was and still is, the face of Roc-A-Fella Records, ran Def Jam Records, has a string of other businesses and to top it all off, scored Beyonce’, and say what you will about her, you know and I know that damn near err guy up in here would hit it if they had half a chance. She’s beautiful, successful, and comes from a solid, two parent family that supports her.
I wonder what his IQ is?
I wonder where he went to school.
Good lookin’ L. Maybe the Devil aint so bad afterall.
😉
The Obsidian
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Obsidian,
Please read this before your next post:
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/071203_iq.htm
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Obsidian
Oh by the way, here is the other essential FAQ on this race/IQ thing — the one on race:
http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/071216_race_faq.htm
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(Excuse the third brief post in a row, I should really take the time to reflect and wrap this all up in a single post, but I’ve had a few drinks and so I keep punching the keys impulsively.)
Obsidian, I really think it is worth your time to read the two FAQs linked above, because they form an extremely convenient, condensed, and comprehensive summation of the basic position of the people you’re disagreeing with on this topic.
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Katto,
Thank you for the links but way ahead of you, buddy-not only am I quite familiar with Sailer’s work, I’ve noted on several occasions in his forum that he is the only prominent HBD blogger that I’m aware of who actually prescribes solutions to the “Race/IQ problem”.
Anyway, wanna take a wild guess as to what Jay-Z’s IQ is?
O
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So affirmative action only helps well connected Blacks who *probably* would have made it w/o AA to begin with. Right? I mean, that’s the argument some, including guys like Thomas Sowell, like to toss around.
My response: so? The point is that Black folk couldn’t get on no matter how qualified they were, and we’re not talking about going back into the mists of antiquity here. We’re talking within many people’s lifetimes. Bottomline, human beings like to and often need to see themselves reflected around them in their world. When it comes to the USA, one way to achieve that is through the political process. Black folks started out, *by law*, behind the Eight Ball on that score, but learned how to play the game to the point where we now have real life Huxtables out there. And that’s a good thing, I really don’t care how that’s brought about.
Now, why do I say that? Because its important that Black males, for example, see that there’s more then one way to be a Man-you don’t have to sling rock on the cormer. Its important for Black boys and girls to see Black Women head nurses, school principals, having meaningful careers. And its important for a Black electorate to be able to see and know, that they can cast a vote for one of their own and not only will the votes count and will *be* counted, but that their electoral choice WIN.
John McCain understood that. Why Apeman can’t, is the real joke.
Last night I saw an interesting flick: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, starring Brad Pitt. It was a very profound movie, but for a reason probably not mentioned by many:
Because the film showed Black people as Americans, as human beings. Queenie, Benjamin’s adopted mother, was in love w/Mr. Weathers, a Shakespearean actor. Its nice to see Black people fall in love on screen. Its important for Black people to see that. Its important for *errbody* to see that.
For that reason alone I’ll be adding it to my permanent movie collection. And of course, I’ve always liked Brad Pitt flicks.
O
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obs
i don’t believe anyone is advocating a return to jim crow
the opposite of jim crow isn’t AA, the opposite of jim crow is the GOVERNMENT being restrained in its ability to create laws and practices that discriminate on the basis of race.
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Dana,
AA is a remedy for previous and egregious governmental overreach wrt discriminatory practices against African Americans. Its not perfect, but something had to be done.
It is.
O
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Moreover Dana, you’re sidestepping my major point, w/all due respect:
If you agree w/the notion that African Americans, by and large, are simply incapable of competing w/Whites and Asians cognitively, what is the solution? De Jure segregation. Period. Its the only real, logical conclusion, yes?
O
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So the two choices are AA or Jim Crow? Wow, you are insane. If you make it a binary – or, sorry, black/white – choice, a lot of whites would vote for Jimmy, given the chance.
That IQs of Africans are significantly lower, on average, then pretty much everyone else’s, is simply a fact (and most Americans of African descent are much higher in IQ than real Africans) — the public policy conclusions to be drawn from this fact have changed over time, to say the least, but the fact remains.
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If indeed the vast majority of Blacks, regardless of income etc, simply aren’t as smart, and by extension, as qualified as Whites and Asians, what should we do w/them?
Qualified for what? Those on the left side of the bell curve are less qualified for office-type jobs that involve manipulating language and numbers, but that doesn’t mean they’re not qualified for anything.
The answer is vocational training rather than “college track” training, plus an industrial policy that preserves manufacturing jobs (since there’s no point in vocational training if there are no jobs in that vocation). Manufacturing jobs are the only way for blue-collar people of any ethnicity to earn good pay.
This is exactly what countries like Germany and Japan do, since they recognize that by definition half the population is on the left side of the curve, and these people need a way to live fulfilling lives.
Perhaps you may argue that blacks shouldn’t be relegated to “low status” assembly line jobs rather than “high status” office jobs. Perceived status is a thing that can be changed. Furthermore, people on the left side of the curve tend to hate office jobs, because they find such jobs boring and they’re not good at them. It makes a lot more sense to me to create good-paying jobs even if such jobs are seemingly low-status, rather than to try and shoehorn everyone into “high status” office jobs that they hate and aren’t good at.
Since all people aren’t born equal, no matter what they do, only logic would dictate that we have a kind of de facto Jim Crowism, right?
You are confusing legal and political equality with
how do you then square the fact that for so long, Whites were completely cool w/having clearly inferior people raise their kids, builnd their houses and other buildings, tend their crops and fight in their wars?
The fact of the matter is that most of the building, crop-raising, kid-raising, and fighting was done by whites, not blacks. How could it be otherwise, since whites were the vast majority of the population?
One of the myths of Vietnam was that blacks were overrepresented as casualties. In fact, whites have been overrepresented as military casualties as a percent of population in every single US war.
You seem to think that whites exploit only blacks. Elite whites exploit not just blacks but “inferior” (non-elite) whites, while encouraging blacks and non-elite whites to hate each other.
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Whoops, didn’t finish that thought!
Since all people aren’t born equal, no matter what they do, only logic would dictate that we have a kind of de facto Jim Crowism, right?
You are confusing legal and political equality with every other kind of equality. Getting rid of AA would not imply rescinding legal and political rights.
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O,
“As far as I know he’s not formally educated. Yet Jay-Z is hands down, by any estimation, a true American success story. And, note, he’s never been in the headlines for going to jail, beating anyone up, Baby Mama Drama, etc.”
Are we talking about the same Jay-Z? I don’t even follow rap much, but didn’t he once stab a record producer? He and his thugs were always making headlines for causing trouble in clubs, having beefs with other rappers, etc. And he was a high-school drop-out who sold drugs. He’s not a success because he *overcame* those things, he’s a success because he perpetuated a stereotype.
The fans love, no, require the street cred. Why?
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Lots of white kids like thug rappers because it makes them feel tough. If it wasn’t for middle class white kids trying to shock their parents, thug rappers wouldn’t be all that successful.
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Lots of white kids like thug rappers because it makes them feel tough.
Is that still the case? This sounds very 90s to me. I never see white teenagers listening to rap. Except maybe whiggers, but they rarely look under 20 years old.
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Nevertheless, Jay-Z remains a success story, far and above the majority of rappers out there. All that I stated about his achievements was true.
Again: what’s his IQ?
O
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PA
I may be a little out of date, then. I’m not sure if it is still as true now.
Should we introduce AA into the courts? I think that Holder and Obama would like to do that. For every black locked up, make sure 3 white serve time as well. Guilt or innocence doesn’t matter since we are just “correcting past injustice.”
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I miss the 1980s prole teenage guys. Metalheads — jean jackets, long hair, concert t-shirts, always looking like they wanna kick somebody’s ass.
Back then you could see them everywhere. I won’t bullshit — as a teenager myself then who was on the preppeir side, I was careful not to find myself outnumbered by them when out with my buddies.
But these guys are gone from the scene. Maybe they disappeared when Grunge became popular.
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Actually Mandy, Whites can get less time for the same crime as Blacks. For example, drug dealing. I’m just sayin.
Anyway look, we all know that the Blue Collar world is all but dead now. So there really isn’t any such thing as shunting the Left Enders, Black or White, off into factories and plants. By and large, they no longer exist.
Here in Philly, an official working w/the School Board once said that he could get a highschool grad into Harvard quicker than he could get that same highschool grad into one of Philly’s Trade Unions. Deep statement.
So, since we all know the deal, what’s the solution?-afterall, you’re all smarter than me, right? Can’t you smartassed White folks answer that simple question?
Hmm?
O
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O,
I’d assume his IQ is above average, but then rap doesn’t require too many intellegence tests to get in. What’s the point you’re trying to drive home?
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o
“For example, drug dealing. I’m just sayin. ”
I know. I’m all for ending the drug war.
The solution?
Stop rewarding companies that send manufacturing jobs overseas. Stop politicizing the unions. Close the borders and work on developing jobs for the people we already have. Tax breaks for American corps
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we all know that the Blue Collar world is all but dead now. So there really isn’t any such thing as shunting the Left Enders, Black or White, off into factories and plants. By and large, they no longer exist.
That’s going to change. Offshoring depends on people taking our dollars for their goods. Since the government clearly intends to devalue the dollar, foreigners are going to stop taking dollars, and we’re going to have to make stuff here because imports will be too expensive.
That aside, it is absurd to throw up your hands and say “nothing can be done”. The elite sent manufacturing jobs overseas on purpose, for political reasons. Those jobs can be brought back for political reasons, too, and blacks among others should insist on this.
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@Doug
Re: welfare
Public censure is needed against mothers and fathers who make these choices, (not just the mother, as you have suggested). We live in a shifting society where the idea of a true family / household is changing.
There should be an emphasis on building strong family ties; ending welfare and child support is not the answer b/c there are too many people who truly need it (no governmental measure is perfect; there will be abusers).
But as far as injecting values into a society, that is a tough one.
Re: Networks + race
My race and personal background are not something I’m interested in discussing here. There is too much focus on race, in fact, and I like to steer from that. It’s the reason I have not stated my race, and you may make your guesses as you wish. 🙂
But being an attractive and gifted female has many advantages, including witnessing/observing/spending time with parts of the very network whose existence you deny.
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@PA
PS. Dreamer – are you a white chick? if so, your constant anti-white-guy comments are a very unattractive quality. Just sayin’, if you also do this in real life.
I’m not anti-white guy or anti-any race guy / person for that matter.
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GNPs for Apes: What’s your source for the evolutionary exhibits? Tehran in Iran does not constitute an Arab country.
I would think that if evolution is showcased at all, it would be in the Western model.
Obsidian:
Your assumption that saying a black population on average scores lower on IQ tests i.e. are less intelligent automatically means that blacks are inferior is erroneous.
Some idiots — please say who — may use this to justify racist idiocy but it does not logically follow. Humans are made of much more than IQ and indeed you find amoral incompetents in the intellegentsia as well as anyone else. There are no problems as long as someone is doing a job they are qualified for, with those qualifications being obtained using the same hurdles.
Blacks as a population are talented at being extroverted and perhaps socially intelligent, as evidenced by the media personalities. They’re also talented in the physical department, as evidenced by the athletes and so on.
This seems a recipe for a successful, very productive society but potentials must be recognised on an individual level, not on a race-based one. Simply because on average a population has any one quality, it would be absolutely disastrous to operate on the assumption that they all have this quality.
What movie doesn’t show blacks as human beings? What kind of climate are you people living in that this actually needs to be asserted?
It would be absolutely brilliant if Jay Z had a low-ish IQ. It would illustrate an important point about its importance.
Tarl: In the UK, vocational qualifications and apprenticeships are available fairly early on and training begins at 16 for those who grab the opportunity.
After the age of 16, low income kids are given thirty pounds a school week (that was the figure when I was in school), to stay in education, which was attendance-based.
People can usually find employment in the fields offered. Things like catering, retail and so on.
Seems that you have to pretty much work against the system to not be qualified or employed.
Re: networks. Can’t you get into most networks if you’re charming, interesting, so on? And there’s an Old Arabs’ network I took advantage of to gain some medical experience here.
You can’t tell me there isn’t a version for everyone.
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Obsidian,
I believe you when you say you’ve read those two FAQs by Steve Sailer. However, you give no demonstration that you’ve actually understood them.
For one thing, you seem entirely unaware of the concept of statistical averages, as evidenced by your positing a single high-IQ black individual as some kind of argument. Do you know how a bell curve works?
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obsidian:
this is true. however, you leave out the fact that the 1980’s congressional black caucus spearheaded a lot of the anti-crack laws due to the crack epidemic in the black communities at the time. john mcwhorter and glenn loury (both black, of course) have discussed this in detail.
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Chic noir, a typical dumb bitch:
“You need to go the emergency room immediately and ask for anti virals because you’ve possibly been exposed to HIV.”
—lmao. A female to male infection of HIV is extremely hard to do, no matter what gay propaganda tells you. You have to have an open wound (as a male) on your penis/exposed area to have a good shot.
Gays try to say otherwise, but that’s just to puff up HIV to get more funding, since HIV affects gays way more than straight men.
Get a clue, cunt.
Mandy! XD, I believe you’re a virgin as much as I believe you’re intelligent; since its quite obvious you’re a silly stupid git from all you say, chances are you lay on your back at the first sign of cock.
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According to my test scores and grades in school, I am not smart enough to do theoretical physics.
Nevertheless, I demand AA for rougueish Eastern European guys like me in the field of theoretrical physics.
Once this AA program is passed, I will quit my dayjob and take charge of the Quarks Department at the research lab.
And if there already happens to be a smarter rougueish Eastern European guy doing theoretical physics… and his competence comes into question as everybody sees me mixing up the Neutrino solution test tubes and opening wrong Wormholes… too bad for him.
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for those interested in Obsidian’s rhetorical MO i direct you to:
38 Ways To Win An Argument
by Arthur Schopenhauer
1 Carry your opponent’s proposition beyond its natural limits; exaggerate it.
The more general your opponent’s statement becomes, the more objections you can find against it.
The more restricted and narrow your own propositions remain, the easier they are to defend.
2 Use different meanings of your opponent’s words to refute his argument.
Example: Person A says, “You do not understand the mysteries of Kant’s philosophy.”
Person B replies, “Oh, if it’s mysteries you’re talking about, I’ll have nothing to do with them.”
3 Ignore your opponent’s proposition, which was intended to refer to some particular thing.
Rather, understand it in some quite different sense, and then refute it.
Attack something different than what was asserted.
4 Hide your conclusion from your opponent until the end.
Mingle your premises here and there in your talk.
Get your opponent to agree to them in no definite order.
By this circuitous route you conceal your goal until you have reached all the admissions necessary to reach your goal.
5 Use your opponent’s beliefs against him.
If your opponent refuses to accept your premises, use his own premises to your advantage.
Example, if the opponent is a member of an organization or a religious sect to which you do not belong, you may employ the declared opinions of this group against the opponent.
6 Confuse the issue by changing your opponent’s words or what he or she seeks to prove.
Example: Call something by a different name: “good repute” instead of “honor,” “virtue” instead of “virginity,” “red-blooded” instead of “vertebrates”.
7 State your proposition and show the truth of it by asking the opponent many questions.
By asking many wide-reaching questions at once, you may hide what you want to get admitted.
Then you quickly propound the argument resulting from the proponent’s admissions.
8 Make your opponent angry.
An angry person is less capable of using judgment or perceiving where his or her advantage lies.
9 Use your opponent’s answers to your question to reach different or even opposite conclusions.
10 If your opponent answers all your questions negatively and refuses to grant you any points, ask him or her to concede the opposite of your premises.
This may confuse the opponent as to which point you actually seek him to concede.
for the rest:
http://www.indiauncut.com/iublog/article/38-ways-to-win-an-argument-arthur-schopenhauer/
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Bhetti,
The whole of HBD, as is currently defined by the blogosphere, seems to rest on one thing and one thing only: IQ. According to them, it is not only the most reliable, consistent measure of predictive skills, etc, but it is also the least biased. OneSTDV, Inductivist, Steve Sailer, Audacious Epigone, Half Sigma, FeministX, and quite a few of the regular voices in this forum, including Roissy himself, seem to agree w/this basic premise.
And, let’s be fair and honest: IQ IS indeed highly valued in the Western World, and especially among the upper and elite classes. And like anything else that’s highly valued, its so more than merely for its utilitarian value; its a statement about one’s inherent worth as a human being.
It’s true, although virtually no one on the Left is willing to say it, and barely a handful on the Right has the cajones to openly say as much either, save a Half Sigma or a OneSTDV. But the argument makes sense: if IQ is a make or break measurement in today’s world, and if a group of people simply don’t have the chops to do the really important stuff and thereby get all the goodies that come with it, the only logical conclusion must be, that short of sendin them back where they come from, you basically have to have a “two Americas” type solution-I put it that way so as to assuage the feelings of HBDers who aint got the balls to admit that they want a virtual return to Jim Crow. Because when you really break it all down, and think about what I’m saying, that’s what it comes to.
It’s inevitable.
O
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o
What about segregating schools according to ability: An academic high school for the college bound, a technical high school for the blue collar jobs, and a deviant high school for those who won’t behave in the other settings?
Would you object to this O, if it wasn’t race based but aptitude based?
Perhaps in middle school, a test of abilities/proclivities would decide a person’s career path. No screwing with the numbers if certain groups are “underrepresented.”
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Katto,
I’ve read Sailer extensively and as well, read The Bell Curve when it first came out and was all the controversey back in the day. Because I’m a curious sort, I wanted to see for myself what all the hub bub was all about. Murray and Herrenstein make some very interesting points. Too bad no one wants to really tackle what they were really saying, though. It’s easier to go for the racial tarbaby thing. Actually grappling w/the IQ real deal?-whew! Messy…
Anyway, Katto, dig this-yea, I understand stats and averages-I’m a Black guy and like most Brothas, I like sports, lol. So I’m hip. That’s not the issue, you’re not hearing me-the point behind HBD is, that MOST, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of Black folk, ARE NOT BRILLIANT, or for that matter, even nominally proficient. That’s what they say, not what I say. All I’m asking is-now what? If what they say is true, then what’s to be done, really? Well, you could have a return to Jim Crow-it’s effiecient, gets the job done, and you’ll always have a steady stream of workers to do America’s shit jobs while Mr. Charlie and Ms. Ann can enjoy their mint julips on the porch.
😉
O
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Mandy Been,
Obvious problems w/your proposal aside, let’s answer some practical questions:
The first one being, where do you put all those Trades track kids after they graduate highschool-largely Black, Male grads-in a jacked up economy like this? Hmm? Where they gonna get work? Didn’t yo read what I said above-I said that a School Board official here in Philly said that he can get a kid into HARVARD faster than he can get that same kid into a Trade Union. Like I said before, that’s a very deep statement.
So, while what Tarl’s saying sounds great, it ain’t doing nothing TODAY. Or for the last few decades. Oh, and this is biting White Left Enders in the butt too. Too bad for them they don’t have an NAACP.
Holla back Mandy Been-I’m sure you have many more great ideas. 😉
O
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Obsidian—
No. Not right at all.
All the areas in which blacks are fully competitive and that’s why they’re there, wouldn’t change at all. Professional athletics and music, most entertainment, etc.
In other areas there’d be some change. Michelle Obama wouldn’t have gotten into Princeton but she might well have gotten into Rutgers, and so on.
You repeatedly write these simplistic, platonic spheres arguments. Black and white intelligence are two overlapping bell curves. Yes the white and asian one is right shifted compared to the blacks one, but they very heavily overlap. As well leadership ability, charisma and drive matter greatly as well.
Completely nonsensical noise.
Obsidian unmasked.
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Obsidian:
In this response that starts with “Bhetti”, I think you got the argument pretty well.
But here’s one of the main goals of HBD (as I’ve written extensively), get rid of diversity programs and start tracking people like they do in China. It’s not that complicated. It has nothing to do with race or segregating by race. Just stop with the racial egalitarianism, it’s never going to happen. that’s what HBD tells us, that our society is generally free/devoid of bias because all the stats are consistent with HBD (e.g. blacks commit more crime and Jews/Asians are overepresented in high-IQ professions).
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I’ve seen hip-hop culture discussed here, so for anyone who’s interested, here’s article on hip-hop and multiculturalism:
How Hip-Hop Helps Today’s Multiculturalism
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obsidian,
please explain EXACTLY why dismantling AA would REQUIRE a return to government sanctioned, government enforced de jure segregation, AKA Jim Crow
why would it not just lead to voluntary self segregation and the option, but not the requirement of NON government entities being able to discriminate on the basis of race?
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Obsidian–
You obviously really do not understand the concept of overlapping bell curves.
I suggest you go read up on it until you do.
You keep posting separate platonic spheres nonsense, as though all (but a tiny number) of whites are up here, and all (but a tiny number) of blacks are down there. No. That isn’t how it works or what the statistical numbers say. Instead the bell curves of IQ for blacks versus (whites and asians) are much more heavily overlapping that that.
(Asians as well have their own complications. We don’t get anything close to a representative sample of South Asian Indians for example. Instead some of the cream. In their native lands with representative samples it’s only NE Asians that have high IQ’s compared to the world average of about 90.)
IQ is most definitely not the only thing that matters for material success. It’s just the most easily and rigorously measurable thing that does, and yes it does quite a bit. So too though do determination, charisma, trustworthiness, and even good looks. All but the last could be called “character”.
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dana–
Yeah, the notion is absurd.
Hysterical, even.
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Doug,
C’mon, don’t get all coy on me now.
You know as well as I do that the vast majority of Black folk will NEVER make it into the NBA, NFL, or Hollywood. So, what do we do with them?
Here, lemme help you. A few years back the Univeristy of Chicago did an interesting study. Perhaps you’ve heard of it.
They took resumes and put White and Black sounding names on them, and sent those same resumes to leading companies and businesses in the Chicago area. The result?
The resumes w/the White sounding names got something like twice if not three times the number of callbacks as the Black ones. Even though the resumes, names aside, *were exactly the same*.
Remember what I said about White folk having trouble, or heck, being simply unwilling, to make distinctions?
Yea, yea, I get it, Black folk didn’t really have the skills to have such resumes, so it makes sense to trash the ones w/Shante’ or Jamal on em, right? Ok, so that goes to the next argument:
If Michelle Obama ain’ built like that to be in Princeton, she probably aint built like that to be in Rutgers either-right? I mean, afterall, Rutgers is a very good school. And in any event, you gotta go to law school, right? And pass the bar and all that. Look, the bottomline Doug, is that you’re saying that Michelle simply ain’t a good lawyer, and per the HBD IQ argument, that makes sense. In fact, she don’t even belong in the legal field-right?
So, given that Blacks, on average, aint as smart as Whites and Asians, and we trying to have a strictly merit based system, and since most Black folk won’t be in sports or entertainment…what do we do w/the Blacks?
I thought all you smart White folks would have figured that one out by now.
😉
O
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if i’m not mistaken, jim crow was going to eventually end anyway after the outmigration of blacks from the south reduced the competitive pressure for work and population balanced out in many counties.
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Dreamer–
Girls that get accidentally pegnant doen’t have to have the baby. They can abort. Or give the kid up for adoption. Men should have similar Roe v. Wade rights to give up parental rights and responsibilities, meaning no responsibility for child support. For the unwed dads who want to be that, they can sign a paper to that affect.
Nothing would be more affective in punishing this choice, overwhelming by unwed mothers rather than also with the bio dads assent, to bear these children and often lie about birth control, but anyway keep them, than cutting off child support unless the father agrees to it in writing, or welfare.
If the mother needs the welfare then instead take the kid away for foster care or adoption. Unwed mothers are the decision makers and they need to be strongly disincented.
Single motherhood would plummet
Your solutions are complete bs. Mine would work.
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Obsidian,
Sorry to cut in, but isn’t Chicago also supposed to be one of the most racially segregated cities in the US? I live there…so I’d say it is pretty segregated, but I think that there was some sort of study done that showed that. I don’t remember though. Anyway, that study would probably be a lot more useful if it was done in other cities too…
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Hi Dana,
My point is simple, and since I know how much we’re all so race obsessed, I’ll try and use a similar example to make my point.
Much has been said here about the need for Women to basically go back in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant. Of course, no Man here puts it exactly that way, but you know how we Black folks roll, Dana. We don’t mince words.
Because, when you really break it down, we could end A LOT of real problems by forcing Women back into the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Really. There’d be a daddy in err home, divorces would be really hard to get, and real work, done by Men, would again be the Order of the Day. None of that make-work Pink Collar shit. Same deal w/Title IX.
But…
The little problem with all that is-how we gonna make that happen?
This is where my White brothers lose their collective nutsac.
See, in order to really, truly bring balance to the Force, YOU GOTTA BE READY, WILLING AND ABLE, TO USE FORCE. Which explains why Women in other areas of the world know they bedda not even think about getting out of line-or they ass, is grass.
No amount of “reasoning” is gonna work, Dana. And laws don’t mean anything w/o the power-and by that I mean up to and including the gun-power, to back it up. Because w/o the very real threat of organized violence is visited on Women, nothing along these lines wil change, because they will never give up their bennies in the current environment otherwise.
And the same thing can be said of Blacks wrt HBD. Simply put, NO amount of reason, or logic, is gonna convince Black folks to accept a lower level of existence. Fuck “merit”. So, in order for the HBD argument to really work, you’d basicaly have to have the power to crack skulls to enforce it.
White folks were indeed willing to use force to keep Black folk in line. So its not something that’s impossible to do.
Of course, like Jim Crow, which, btw, definitely existed in the North as well, how soon do we forget-the Taliban Method wrt Women, works, too.
It’s just that White guys by and large ain’t got the heart, stomach or balls to actually do it.
Hope you see my point.
O
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Kim,
What you say aby Chitown is hardly surprising, nor is it unique, that’s the deal w/just about err major city in the country. So the study would be valid, I think.
O
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Obsidian–
No. Doesn’t follow at all. Rutgers is a good school but it does have lower minimum admission standards than Princeton. It’s also cheaper which is a reasons some NJ people who could get into Princeton instead go to Rutgers.
I don’t know if Michelle could have gotten into Rutgers without AA, but she might well have been able to. I’d say she probably could have. The same applies to law school.
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Obsidian–
No Jim Crowe didn’t. There was some discrimination, but then so to was there against many groups, such as Jews or Italians. Those groups often discriminated against wasps as well.
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How about soft eugenics? Disgourage the stupid, violent or otherwise troublesome from having many kids but encourage the best and encourage the best and brightest to have many. This could be done via social pressure. It worked really well for a certain other group.
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Doug,
First of all, you need to be leaning on guys like OneSTDV and Half Sigma, because they’re the ones who are using a quite simplistic argument and calculus to make their arguments. Think they give a damn about “character”, “charisma”, etc, et al? Because if they did, they’d be talking about it. They DON’T-ALL they care about is IQ. Period. And according to them, that’s the gamechanger, the deal breaker.
Like I said Doug, IQ, which both Left and Right highly values, is more than a number-its literally a value judgment on the inherent worth, or the lack thereof, of a human being. Don’t take my word for it, ask OneSTDV, or Half Sigma, or heck even Roissy, they’ll tell you. And when people are inherently worth less than others, well, its not really that big a deal to slight em a bit, right? I mean, afterall, what are they gonna do about it-what *can* they do about it?
You haven’t answered my question Doug-what do we do w/Black folks, if we all agre they’re simply not smart enough to meaningfully exist in the Information Age?
C’mon, you’re a Standford Man! You should have the answer already.
😉
O
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Doug,
As I understand it, you have to take the bar exam no matter where you went to school, yes? And, its my understanding that Black folks, no matter where they went to undergrad or law school, don’t do as well as Whites and Asians on it-yes?
So, if that’s true, then it really doesn’t matter where Michelle Obama went to school. The bottomline is she shouldn’t be there, period.
Right?
O
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Obsidian-
You and your paranoid delusions.
You’re making up your own version of what THE HBD argument “wants” to have happen.
I simply want to end affirmative action, i.e clear discrimination in favor of blacks. I don’t want to bring back allowing discrimination against blacks, much less the pervasive government mandated discrimination of Jim Crow. Nor have I heard anyone outside of perhaps a few white nationalist sites call for that.
I want anti discrimination laws to be applied, or better rewritten to make it crystal that they must be applied, equally with respect to all races and ethnicities.
The choice you pose between continuing AA or going back to Jim Crow is totally absurd.
As well Obsidian, you used to say around here that you were against affirmative action.
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@Doug
No, the issue of OOW births does not fall solely on women. Just from a simple biological POV, it takes two.
Quoting Obsidian here:
“Because, when you really break it down, we could end A LOT of real problems by forcing Women back into the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Really. There’d be a daddy in err home, divorces would be really hard to get, and real work, done by Men, would again be the Order of the Day.”
Men have a responsibility.
Doug, you advocate women going back to their submissive housekeeping days. I advocate similar values in a relationship and in a marriage. Only way to restructure a spiraling down society.
What’s the key to this type of women falling behind men model, and stronger family unit / less OOW births?
Men have to be in the home as providers.
Doug, just as you want women to take more responsibility / censure… (and I agree here wholeheartedly) men then have to play a role, too. As leader of the household and as father figure and financial provider.
Get the women back in line, sure that’s great. But if men get the power, they get the responsibility.
And please, do not spout abortion as if it is a simple solution. It is not. And the idea is repulsive.
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Obsidian–
No. Quite a few blacks do better than the average white or Asian taking the bar exam or on their college grades, and even more blacks do better than low scoring whites such as no doubt that Blagojevich character. Not that how you score on the bar exam is the be all.
No. Completely wrong. Once again you illustrate you total lack of understanding of the basic statistical concept of overlapping bell curves.
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Why are you being thick Obsidian? Just for fun?
And, its my understanding that Black folks, no matter where they went to undergrad or law school, don’t do as well as Whites and Asians on it-yes?
Yes, the AVERAGE black folks don’t do as well.
So, if that’s true, then it really doesn’t matter where Michelle Obama went to school. The bottomline is she shouldn’t be there, period.
Not if she is smarter than the AVERAGE black folks.
Try reading this before responding
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Mandy Been,
State-sponsored Eugenics has never worked. And won’t for a number of reasons. One of them being that you’ll have to directly trample on Women’s Reproductive Rights. And that’s a serious political third rail.
Simply put, as an American, not only do you have a Right to get your Freak On, but you have a Right to do it w/anyone of legal age who gives their consent.
Period.
O
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obs,
why would rescinding all AA and programs, preferences and pro black discriminatory practices require “cracking heads”? SPECIFICALLY–why?
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Obsidian
It’s an absurd question that demonstrates once again that you don’t understand overlapping bell curves. It’s more of your Platonic spheres thinking. As well as I’ve said IQ is by no means everything in getting ahead in all fields. Determination, charisma, leadership, trustworthiness are all important and so too often are looks (especially for sales but even just for average corporate jobs they play a role). Even if IQ were everything, which it isn’t, overlapping bell curves Obsidian.
So in short what I’d do with black folk is just what the economy is doing with them now, only without the artificial boost and lying about abilities that AA creates. That might lead to some downshifting over time perhaps. Probably also though to less glass ceilings as black people in all government and corporate positions really had to scramble to get there or to get early promotions, rather than relying upon the soft quotas and “seat filling” sometimes of AA. Scrambling and competing makes you sharper.
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@ dana
why would rescinding all AA and programs, preferences and pro black discriminatory practices require “cracking heads”? SPECIFICALLY–why?
I understand his reasoning. Let me explain
Ending AA would make already poor black folks even poorer. If they’re hurting now – even with all this help – imagine how much poorer they’d be without quotas.
When black folk become that much poorer, they won’t just lie down and accept it. They’ll riot, demanding change (and paper as well).
I don’t agree with any of that, but it’s what he’s trying to say.
What he’s missing is that it wouldn’t take some ‘new’ form of head cracking. All it would take is the police to do their job. And I don’t think too many white folk would feel sorry for a rioting, looting black kid getting his head cracked in when he fights with riot police.
Obs, is that accurate?
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Doug,
Again, please read Half Sigma, Steve Sailer, OneSTDV, ask Roissy what he thinks about all this, etc. And since Seeking Alpha’s joined the fray, I find it very interesting that all a sudden, now we wanna start backpedaling and splitting statistical hairs.
Look fellas, stick to your guns, this is why so many White guys have problems getting some. Black folk, for the most part, don’t have the cognitive chops to do anything meaningful in life, which explains a lot of things. Right? So, that means, that they sould really be shunted off-in Dana’s world, they simply would just do it on their own-out of the way of the rest of productive America. Right?
Going back to the Michelle Obama thing, again, according to figures Sailer put up on his site recently, Black folks struggle more w/law school, bar exams and the like. And, since there ain’t but so many slots to go around, why waste em on folk whom we all know don’t, *on average*, have the chops to legitimately compete? Why not simply make it so its impossible for Blacks to even go there-and the simplest, easiest way to do that is by making it law: if you’re Black, you gotta take a step back. It would be a net good for society-the High Ideals of Merit would be preserved, a better and more accurate and efficient legal system would ensue, and there would be less racial emnity due to things like affirmative action.
Sure, there would only be one, perhaps two Black lawschool grads per class, but them’s the breaks. Besides, Black folks can dance.
Right?
In the meantime, as Sailer suggested in his excellent article, I think its called Great Expectations, we need to have a real discussion about where Black folks go to get gainful employment.
He suggested, for Black Males, that fields like Sales could work. Of course, this assumes that you’ll even be hired to begin with, something that Sailer seems to be quite optimistic about. Hmm.
Another he suggests is Motivational Speaking, or Corporate Headhunter. He says Black Men in particular have a kind of “genetic market niche” for these kinds of things-like Doug mentioned, Sailer seems to feel that Black Men have a kind of natural charisma and yes, sexual vibe that easily lends itself to success in the aforementioned fields. Having been in one of the aforementioned fields myself for sometime, I can personally attest to what he says.
Still though, White folks tend to cling to preconceived notions about Black folks…and this plays itself in the HR Dept, as the U of Chicago study shows. So, I’m not as optimistic as Sailer is when it actually comes to getting hired. But I give him lots of dap for at least trying to contribute to the HBD discussion in a meaningful way. Most other HBD bloggers really couldn’t care less about their fellow American citizens-as far as they’re concerned, we’re a better nation w/o Black folks in it. Period.
If I’m misrepresenting any of these guys, please let me know how?
Holla back
O
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Dreamer-
Yes it does or should. That’s what would stop it, or diminish it enormously.
But women are the gatekeepers and have always been expected to be, absent force which is rape, in every society. Women being the gatekeepers is what works. Men have always tried to have promiscuous sex, or a large proportion of men have. It’s built into their nature far more than into women’s though some at least is built into both. Female gatekeeping is what works when anything does. It isn’t working now because women are rewarded with punitive indentured servitude levels of child support for babies that only they want, not the man who impregnated them.
If only they want them, they should have to be responsible.
Yes I do support abortion rights, as do a large majority of single women. I want them extended to men.
Women who don’t want to abort can give the child up for adoption. Or have a backup birth control plan, all of which other than the condom are within the woman’s sole control and even knowledge. Plenty of single mom births are by deceiving the man.
Well partly but not entirely. We no longer need nor is it desirable for women to have ten children given infant mortality rates in this country. I don’t want women doing nothing but housekeeping, especially when there aren’t infants or small children not in school around. As well that would be boring for most women in those other times and a waste of their talents. I do want women to have careers and certainly to have that choice. I just think that family should come first for women once they marry, and that with reformed divorce laws, it should be the social goal that nearly all women and men do marry.
I agree with this goal Dreamer.
I think paradoxically perhaps, but only before you stop and really think about it, that that ending mandated child support for single mothers or divorcing wives would help in that enormously.
It’s women that are overwhelmingly the one’s to end marriages usually for less than compelling reasons. They’re the ones that need to be disincentivized to do so, particularly when there are minor children involved. Ending mandated child support and fifty fifty splits of the husband’s income no matter how much it is or how little she may have contributed would help enormously in cutting down female caused divorces.
I’d be willing to have something like the current divorce financial situation when it’s the man who clearly wanted a family and then abandon his marriage and children for less than compelling reasons. Female cheating which she won’t stop is a compelling reason.
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Sure, there would only be one, perhaps two Black lawschool grads per class, but them’s the breaks.
Yes. And them’s the good breaks. Because no one would question their ability.
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Obsidian–
This is getting tedious. Again it’s obvious you don’t understand overlapping bell curves. Until you do you can’t talk intelligently in this area. You certainly haven’t been making sense in it so far.
You totally misuse the concept of “on average” above, in an attempt to forestall criticism that you don’t understand the statistical concepts.
We aren’t letting “folk” each of whom have group *average* abilities into law school. We’re letting in individuals. We shouldn’t let in black individuals who don”t themselves make the cuttoff for admissions that individuals in other non AA assisted groups face, but we SHOULD let in black individuals who do make that cutoff, while many whites and asians won’t. Because the won’t have as high an IQ and grades from comparably tough schools to get in as SOME blacks do.
But I’m sick of this Obsidian. If you can’t understand these concepts or continue to chose to ignore them, you’re not worth continuing to talk to about this.
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http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/index.html
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@lurker:
“Mandy! XD, I believe you’re a virgin as much as I believe you’re intelligent; since its quite obvious you’re a silly stupid git from all you say, chances are you lay on your back at the first sign of cock.”
I never claimed intelligence. In fact, most descriptions of myself you’ll find on here are created by other people. Doug said I was intelligent (as well as a pedantic bitch), maurice said I was precocious, aoefe said I was unlike most other teenagers she knew.
None of these are words I’d use to describe myself personally. Just as I’m sure “HIV infected idiot” is not a way you would describe yourself.
Your argument just died. Because everything I have said on here about myself is 100% true and can easily be verified. You’re treating fact (I’m a virgin) and opinion (you think I’m a “stupid, silly git” while others say I’m intelligent) as the same thing.
You fail.
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Obsidian —
No. That’s a vast exaggeration.
There might be half as many as now at the more elite schools. Those would go the next level down, and so on. At the bottom, the least intelligent and hard working (grades matter too) black law students wouldn’t get in anywhere. Standards would rise.
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Mandy XD
The later part was mostly a joke. You were being a tad pedantic at the time but I was taking friendly liberties.
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Doug,
Dreamer’s gotta a really good point, which, with all due respect, you kindly danced around. So, here, lemme help you:
1. Alpha Males-that is, guys who can basicaly write their own ticket to getting Pussy on Demand-will NEVER go along w/what you just said. Why would they? I mean, really.
2. Women will NEVER give up their bennies democratically. The country will go down in flames before that happens, period. Just look at the vicious and visceral kneejerk reaction that the mere mention of Mandatory Paternity Testing and Roe For Men create among Women enmasse. So, you can forget that.
3. And lastly, Men as a rule really don’t wanna be tied down to the same Woman if they can help it. They wanna to bun and run, and our current world allows that. If we really wanted things to be different, they would be. But the dirty little secret is that lots of guys really don’t wanna step up to the plate. Hence my respect for Roissy-at least he’s Man enough to openly say so.
We already know what works. The Taliban Route, works. Wanna keep Women in line and bring balance to the Force, there you go. Anything short of that, and you open the door to Women having autonomy over their lives. Remember what Lord Acton said.
O
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Saw this paragraph in a Breitbart article today. Pretty strong words for a mainstream editorial… (I included the prior two paragraphs for context)
Americans, especially nonblacks, are deeply fearful that the dynamic is predicated on an un-American premise: presumed guilt. Innocence, under the extra-constitutional reign of political correctness, liberalism’s brand of soft Shariah law, must be proved ex post facto.
Think not? Ask the Duke lacrosse team, which had 88 of the school’s professors sign a petition that presumed their guilt before their side of the story was known. Even though the white athletes were exonerated and the liberal district attorney who pushed the case was dethroned, disbarred and disgraced, the professoriate that assigned guilt to its own students still refuses to apologize.
Those signatories constituted 90 percent of Duke’s African and African-American Studies Department, the subject-matter domain of Mr. Gates, Michael Eric Dyson, Cornel West and other tenure-wielding, highfalutin, iambic-pentameter-filibustering race baiters, and 60 percent of Duke’s women’s studies department, another hotbed of victimology posing as intellectualism.
Hotbed of victimology posing as intellectualism. Nice turn of phrase.
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In my law school class c.1992 there was a distinct, noticeable subset of affirmative action admittees. they had had their own private orientation in the summer before 1st year started and were cynically shunted into the low paying, low prestige “public interest law” track. they populated the “race and american law” and “law, justice and society” gut courses. there were 2-3 black students that obviously deserved to be there, they kept to themselves and took classes like corporations and advanced tax subjects. everyone was aware of this situation–it was an open secret
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Obsidian–
I’ll spend my time reading who it seems most profitable and interesting to me to read.
I do read Sailer or did. I still do some. He puts out a lot of stuff these days. I’ve read most of his classic articles.
Why you put so much weight on Half Sigma is beyond me. I find it a pretty boring and disgruntled and half baked place. So no I’m not going to be reading a lot more of him, if any more at all.
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That’s Weird, Seeking Alpha, I was just reading this as well
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/27/the-presidents-accidental-gift-on-race/
In my engineering classes (late 90s) there was only one African American. He was bright, hard working, good at math, interested in the material.
Now the engineering dept had its fair share of non-white but they were almost all Indian or Chinese(not even general Asia, these two countries specifically)
I’m sure the school would have loved to attract more NAMs but for whatever reason, engineering is not on the radar for some.
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Seeking Alpha–
Indeed.
Good comment. 90% of that department at an elite university is a shocking percentage.
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Obsidian–
I would if I wanted kids. However I’d write a proviso into my prenup that gave me playing around rights so long as I wasn’t neglecting my wife (so long as she wasn’t neglecting herself too much), and she had certain veto powers to cut off anything that got too deeply involving for me. She would stay number one.
I don’t think every man would be about to negotiate a one way play provision like that. Probably only alphas could, more or less.
I think that’s a lot more true of the American black community.
The main thing most white alphas chaff at is no more playing and the threat of huge divorce theft if they do, or for other non compelling reasons. Take those two things away — let alphas play some, as in the days of old in the Angloshere as well as currently in e.g. France, then that might well stop the headlong fleeing from marriage that’s going on now among white alphas.
Will Smith is married. But he’s allowed to play.
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Seeking Alpha,
Yup, you got it right. Simply put, Black have fully bought into the American ethos, that we can be anything we want to be, that we have rights and will exercise them, and that we simply won’t be herded to the back of the bus. And we’ll march, sue, and yup, riot if need be, to protect and extend, all of that.
And yup, right again, it won’t take anything “new” to put any of that down-all White folks gotta do is breakout the firehoses and dogs, just like they did back in the day.
See, that’s what it’ll take for the HBD argument to really work-it’ll have to get a bit ugly, and the HBDosphere, being the tunnelvison guys that they are, either haven’t thought about that or don’t care. In any event, to be quite frank w/ya SA, I don’t think most White folks have the stomach for that sort of thing. White Women certainly don’t, and in the New Girl Order, what she says, goes. So, images of brutal crackdowns on protestors in affirmative action suits, stuff like that, it just doesn’t sit well w/Women. It makes em dry as a desert.
But I could be wrong.
We shall soon see.
O
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Obs
Yup, you got it right. Simply put, Black have fully bought into the American ethos, that we can be anything we want to be, that we have rights and will exercise them, and that we simply won’t be herded to the back of the bus. And we’ll march, sue, and yup, riot if need be, to protect and extend, all of that.
Except thats NOT what I said. Affirmative action isn’t the same thing as ‘[buying] into the American ethos, that we can be anything we want to be, that we have rights and will exercise them’. Affirmative action is, even if I’m not capable of doing this job, I want white people to give it to me caused I’m OWED.
No one is talking about taking away your rights. They’re talking about taking away your special privileges. And you probably would riot over that because of the ingrained victim mentality of your community.
But don’t get it twisted. The only person talking about going back to Jim Crow is YOU, for some unknown reason.
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But I could be wrong.
I think you are wrong, Obsidian. The New Girl Order likes what men in power like. And tday, men in power are Left wing. And believe me, if some Idaho white mlitia wanted to start trouble, more than just dogs and firehoses would be out.
The stomach is there, have no doubt about that.
But while today the Power is with white lefties, tomorrow it could be white righties. Or someone entirely different. And the New Girl Order would get wet to their drumbeat.
Hitler overwhelmingly won the young womens’ vote.
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Roissy thinks
“Please commenters, don’t get the DHS sent to my front door!”
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Doug,
A few things.
One-I don’t hate White folks. Life’s to short to be going around hatin’ on anyone. Instead I choose to use my time loving someone who loves me back. But yea, I do intensely dislike a number of underhanded ish some Whites do, and when I see it I speak on it.
Two-There’s no need for al the huffing and puffing, Man, its all Love here. We’re among friends, just having the kinds of brutally honest discussions on Race that errbody talks about but nobody really does is all. So, you can save all the Ad Homs, brother. As OneSTDV said earlier, I have a pretty good grasp of the HBD argument. And in fact, if yo read the folks I mentioned, they’re pretty much saying the same things I’m saying. I’m just being a lot more raw w/it.
Three-The reason why I put some stock in what Half Sigma says is because he’s part of the HBDosphere. He’s not the only voice, there are others, but he IS a voice, no matter what you, I or anyone else thinks of him. He’s in the mix, and therefore should be addressed. Nothing personal. Just the facts.
So, w/all due respect, you might want to check in w/these and other HBDers because it sounds like what you’re saying is a bit different from what theyres saying. In any event, I think the argument I’m making is on point.
You disagree? Please explain why?
O
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Obsidian–
More of your absurd fantasizing and conjuring.
None of that is what happened when anti-affirmative action referrendums were passed in a number of states.
Actually they’ve passed in all but one state in which there’s been a Ward Connolly lead campaign. Some states make it fairly easy to get a referendum item on the ballot. Others make it very hard or don’t have them.
What’s needed is national legislation when the time is right. Or one more conservative supreme court justice. Or for Anthony Kennedy to keep coming around. Because AA clearly is illegal race based discrimination under the 14th amendment, if one reads it free of leftist Supreme Court legislating and social engineering.
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”””’Tarl,
You seem to think that whites exploit only blacks. Elite whites exploit not just blacks but “inferior” (non-elite) whites, while encouraging blacks and non-elite whites to hate each other.”””””””
I would consider elite a millionire at least. So figure 3 million people in us elite. Everyone else non elite. If you can’t stop work today and be good you are not elite.
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The elite are in on the joke everyone else is the butt of the joke. Working to survive.
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Seeking,
Well, obviously, Black folks view affirmative action in a different way than you do, at least half of em, per recent polling anyway.
All’s I’m saying is that you broadly captured what I was saying and which Dana didn’t seem able to catch. We can go round and round on the Merit thing forever and aday, but in the end, it aint about merit, its about your team. Because that’s the way America works. Its always worked that way. Only thing was, that for a long time, only Whites-and make no mistake, there was and is A LOT of infighting amongst them-were allowed to play. Nowadays, other groups can play too, and by all accounts they ain’t doin’ half bad.
All of this stuff is POLITICAL, which is something the HBD crowd just doesn’t seem to get or can’t get or doesn’t wanna get. People aren’t moved by data, they’re moved by emotions. Sad but true. And Black folk wanna see themselves represented at the top of the heap just like anyone else, and they will not be denied, SA. That’s just the bottomline. You can take it any way you wanna, it aint gonna change a darned thing. Sotomayor WILL be confirmed, so Ricci was just the first shot in the Affirmative Action Wars in the modern era. It ain’t no ways over. Its just beginning.
Now, lemme speak a bit on my own personal view of AA because I think it was Doug who said something about my previous statements on it…
In an ideal world, AA wouldn’t be needed, because people would rise or fall based purely on their skills and merit. But, only a very young, or a very naive, or very pernicious person, would actually believe such a thing. In the realworld in fact, merit can actually work against you if you can’t win the right people over. Hateration aint no joke when you know your job but don’t have friendlies who can move mountains for you.
So, its more than just “merit”-it always has been. People get positions for a whole host of reasons, some good, others not so good, and a whole lotta in between. Sure, that’s not fair, but what is, in life? In fact, one of the things you learn as a Man is that Life is quite often, *brutally* unfair. It can be a Motherfucker.
Now, as Assanova pointed out, a lot of you haven’t really experienced that side of life. Some of you have, but most of you have not. And it don’t feel good, do it? But you see, that’s life. And that’s Politics, aka, The Great American Skin Game. Blacks didn’t make the game. They just learned how to play it.
So, for me, I’m deeply ambivalent on AA. Really, I wish we didn’t have to have it. But I realize how the realworld works. And in the realworld necessary evils like affirmative action have to exist.
*Shrugs*
The Obsidian
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Roissy´s new philosophy is:
– if there are lack of themes, post about any stupid thing since people willcomment anyway and it is a DHV to have a blog with 1000 comments per post
– if he has a worthy theme, post it (” what is natural”) together with an obviously HBD post (“Henry Louis Gates”) so that the HBD crowd will pack to the HBD post and leave the ” game” post alone
I take another routhe. For obvious reasons, we can´t discuss HBD openly and the only subject that always comes out once I am with my friends is “girls” . SO instead of discussing game with a non-expert group of people I will never meet and whose knowledge about it is not necessarily professional, i´d better talk about race and feminism on every post. And leave the pure “game ” posts alone
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Obs
Okay, glad we’re on the same page that you’re the only one who wants Jim Crow, and 85% of your posts from earlier today were just rhetorical strawmen arguments so you could appear to be winning. Big up to you for admitting that.
Is the world fair with affirmative action? Nope. Without it? Nope. But will blacks rise up if it’s taken away? Of course not.
As it is, most of them aren’t getting affirmative action. Certainly not in West Baltimore. Won’t effect their poverty level one way or another. And either way, they’re too scared and too few to fight back against the law.
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What is a DHV?
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Sailer seems to feel that Black Men have a kind of natural charisma and yes, sexual vibe that easily lends itself to success in the aforementioned fields.
Sailer is quite naive when taalking about the sexual market, but he does get it right when he talks about black males
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@ gig –
I think you’ve nailed it. The lack of comments on the ‘game’ post doesn’t reflect a lack of interest in game. It represents a lack of interest in discussing game. I care what Roissy has to say, but after he’s said it, there’s not much more value to add.
People use this place for two separate functions. To read Roissy’s writing, and to comment with like-minded people about controversial topics like race, politics, gender, and money.
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”””””””’freak show
obsidian:
Actually Mandy, Whites can get less time for the same crime as Blacks. For example, drug dealing. I’m just sayin.
this is true. however, you leave out the fact that the 1980’s congressional black caucus spearheaded a lot of the anti-crack laws due to the crack epidemic in the black communities at the time. john mcwhorter and glenn loury (both black, of course) have discussed this in detail.””””””””””’
Yea would like to see stats on this being true. Since it was a white guy who was in jail for 14 years for not revealing location of money that may or may not be there. Also things like murder.
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Doug,
The reason why I say you and the HBDers are saying two different things is because youu factor in things that they simply do not care about, such as charisma, character, and so on. For them, its about strict, raw data, testing scores, that sort of thing. Period. Now, you know and I know that the realworld don’t work like that but these HBD dudes aint tryin to hear all dat.
O
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@ seeking
there ain´t much to learn about game in Roissy once you read his classic posts like the 16 rules and ” how to identify a slut”.
game is better discussed, or probably it can only be discussed, with your buddies in a bar. The very idea of discussing game through the beta wonderland that is the internet is antigame
I am an HBD troll, for sure, and proud of it
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@ gig
Agreed there isn’t much to ‘learn’. It’s the entertainment of as much as the information inside that draws people. The writing style, the exaggerated persona, etc.
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obsidian,
don’t you think your points would be clearer if you stopped trying to make them in that kinda fake seeming half geechee you write in? you obviously have a lot of important observations and everyone here is very interested in your opinion, why obscure it with such impenetrable prose?
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SA,
No, I’m the only one who is willing to openly discuss what the HBD endgame looks like, which isn’t that far away from what The Bell Curve said-a deeply bifurcated society, along cognitive lines. The difference though, is that Jim Crow makes it all very explicit, and you see, White folk as a rule don’t like explicit shit. I like to put it on blast.
But the result is the same, SA. Think about it. Really.
O
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Obs
It’s only the same if you care more about outcome than opportunity.
It’s only the same if the word ‘freedom’ means nothing to you.
It’s only the same if your idea of justice is more in line with a South American socialist than a real American.
It’s only the same if you think like a victim.
It’s not the same.
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the last thing about Roissy is this blog, somehow, even though it is un-moderated, is still able to attract a non-loser audience.
just ignore the comments per see and study the tone of the comments. once you compare you own comments when you are screwed (i.e., gig in october when the entire US financial system seemed to collapse and direct friends started to lose their jobs) to when you are up (i.e. gig in June in new, better paying job), you will see who are the losers and who are not
Sailer manages to have a non loser blog, but only through Soviet-style censorship of comments. I bet that some people get so sexually frustrated by reading stuff here that they simply leave.
this is my theory about why the WN crowd didn´t invade this blog. Those guys are so much losers, that the very talk here about how and why they are losers freaks them out. It must be pretty hard to learn how very simple behaviours let black men bang hot white girls and to see people openly saying the WNism is rooted on sexual frustration
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Dana,
Because that’s the way I choose to write, you feel? And if you don’t like it,
DON’T READ IT.
Tu comprende?
That’s why. My voice. My style. I do it my way.
The. End.
O
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most people who believe in HBD also believe much of the problems of the underclass arise from dysgenic breeding practices encouraged by government programs. most people who believe in HBD are also libertarians if i’m not mistaken. i have yet to se eONE advocate de jure segregation or a government that HAS the power to segregate. it’s stage one thinking to worry about the immediate aftermath of the end of AA–there would definitely be a “throw away” generation adversely effected by it’s failure to realize the game was over. there would be an increase in crime and poverty among all underclass members for a period.
and then stage 2–the new regime sets in–people have different expectations and the new behavioral norms are taken with mother’s milk–not learned in midstream.
i’ve said it before, but why didn’t anyone give a flying fuck about the immediate aftermath of the sexual revolution? the no fault divorce revolution? desegregation? women in the workplace? why do we ONLY worry about the immediate aftermath of trying to REMEDY some of the ills that arose from thos eunprecedented experiments?
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Yea finally an actual race thread set up by Obama.
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Wow dana… commenting on Obs hybrid ebonics touched a nerve, huh?
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SA,
But how can all those great and flowery things you mentioned apply equally to all people if they are inherently different-if one group is, as a whole, and on average, inherently inferior? How does that work? Please explain?
O
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gig
I thought the point of this blog was to help Betas learn. If that is the case, wouldn’t the beta wonderland be the perfect place to teach them?
“I bet that some people get so sexually frustrated by reading stuff here that they simply leave.”
I think some people get bored. Roissy lamented the lack of smart alecks around here. Also feministt trolls get frustrated.
O
“which isn’t that far away from what The Bell Curve said-a deeply bifurcated society, along cognitive lines”
Good point and not a society most would want to live in. So what models would you propose we emulate? Or do you suppose what we have now can continue and eventually work?
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lol, extroverted personalities are hilarious to people with asperger’s tendencies–so touchy! i am laughing in a robot voice
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@ dana
I simply can´t believe you are a woman.
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Yea arguing with obsid is kind of pointless although it is some good game. Your like why can’t he understand so yea his style works just don’t answer what you don’t want to or what is true or what is painful.
Gig the troll yea that fits on that last post he he he
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The things I said don’t apply to people. They’re things people either believe or don’t believe.
It doesn’t surprise me that a victim-based group wouldn’t believe them. It would hurt their feelings to realize that there’s a difference between I’m broke and the white man keeps me broke.
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dana
“why do we ONLY worry about the immediate aftermath of trying to REMEDY some of the ills that arose from thos eunprecedented experiments?”
have you read Strauss and Howe? You may find your answer in cyclical generation theory
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””””’Seeking Alpha,
I’m broke and the white man keeps me broke.”””””’
Just like the blck man is keeping me broke. Shit is wild ain’t it.
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i’m going to take that as a comliment
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ugh compliment
mandybeen i read strauss and howe a longggggggggg time ago when generation x/thirteener/slacker talk was coming into vogue
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Obsidian,
IQ IS indeed highly valued in the Western World, and especially among the upper and elite classes. And like anything else that’s highly valued, its so more than merely for its utilitarian value; its a statement about one’s inherent worth as a human being.
The upper and elite classes are precisely the ones most likely to deny that IQ exists. Part of this is because these are the folks most likely to become educators, and if you believe IQ exists and cannot be changed, then the rationale for a large number of teachers to instruct low IQ folks goes away (except for vo-tech courses that no self-respecting teacher – especially the female teachers – wants to teach. If you think there is no such thing as IQ, and everyone can be a genius with enough teaching, why then you need lots and lots of teachers to make sure No Child Gets Left Behind.
I believe IQ exists, but I certainly don’t think it reflects someone’s “worth as a human being”. I also think the government has an obligation to both sides of the curve, not just the right side.
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@mandy
the HBD talk expelled the original cool commenters of this blog, like ricky Raw, and even though Roissy lamments that, he keeps feeding the HBD crowd because he agrees with us most of the time.
look at how Roosh was never invaded by the HBD crowd, even when comments were free. Roosh didn´t feed the monster so his blog remained a SWPL heaven, just like him
the idea pf teaching b etas was probably never the objective of this blog. Reading the archives it was the domain of Roissy´s DC crew until mid-2008 when Obama led Roissy to invite the HBD crowd in, possibly through his love (which is also mine!) of Sarah Palin. You can´t explain the Palin phenomenon without anthagonyzing SWPLness and using HBD
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@ guns
LOL!
I can´t believe Dana is a woman because I find her comments absolutely unfeminine. If she is a woman, it must be pretty hard to live with her
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””””(except for vo-tech courses that no self-respecting teacher – especially the female teachers – wants to teach.”””””””’
Why is this? The votech kids can get rich and become elite. They could just follow my easy guidline and do it. I think really smart people that had to study so much are pissed that smart people who learn trade can do better than them just by saving some money. Takes 110 gt score in army to change mos. Takes 110 to be a mechanic. Same intelligence level that has no problem going to college.
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Gig,
Excellent analysis of the Roissy Forum, bro. Keep up the good work!
Dana,
The HBD crowd reminds me of some of the very real problems that exist on the Right End of the Bell Curve, on of whom being, a tendency towards tunnelvision and inability and/or unwillingness to see the whole chessboard. They don’t seem to think two, three, five moves ahead; they seem to think *tactically*, but not *strategically*. Me, I like to keep in mind that the whole field of play, IS in play, you feel me? But then, White folks are used to being myopic; being Black kinda forces you to think beyond yourself. Dig on that before you kneejerk.
Of course, there’s also the kinda far out “Libertarian” focus of the HBDers, which basically ensures that they’ll really never get anywhere in the realworld, and the focus on the fact that much less intelligent folk are getting more ass than a toilet seat while they gets none, but I’ll hold off on this stuff till the next go round of posts. Holla back. 😉
SA,
“Hybrid Ebonics”? LOL. That’s good, I like that. But for real though, I can write and speak the Queen’s English if I choose (and several other languages, to varying degrees), but this isn’t a PhD’s thesis here. This is an informal venue, a place where we can hangout and just kick it. So, while I tend to write well and express myself clearly most of the time, I don’t necessarily feel compelled to do so as if I were addressing a jury or, again, writing a thesis paper. I think most people here understand very well what I’m saying, its just that, as you noted above, *Dana* is perturbed by my Urban speak.
She should learn to be a bit more flexible. Flexibility in a Woman is always a good thing. Don’t you agree?
O
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Why you can take a mechanic and put him into operations but you can’t take operations people and have them fix shit.
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http:// jasonsalles.blogspot.com/2008/09/festa-de-1-ano-de-sedna-lounge-gyn.html
gig in september!
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The trouble with AA is that it assumes all white men have a leg up — that is false. And therein lies the rub.
I remember well when, 20+ years ago as an undergraduate, people who were not white males simply categorized me in a box based on my skin and my sex. Those people, to me, are the true racists and sexists. The ones who see the world as whether “their team” wins. And you know what? I really didn’t think that way before then, but if you all want to play the game that way, then we fucking well will, too.
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SA,
Whether one group does or does not believe in a set of principles and ideals is beside the point; the issue here is, WHAT’S THE REALWORLD IMPACT OF SAID IDEALS AND PRINCIPLES? I’m interested in how things actually play itself out in the realworld, SA. Chalk it up to all my years of working in production based fields, where the line between what you did and the bottomline was straight and short.
Also, Tarl’s point about why IQ is both highly regarded yet danced around so much by both Left and Right is very much on point. And SA, I hear what you’re saying, but cmon-IQ *is* indeed a status marker in this society.
Mandy,
I think what we have is about as good as its gonna get. I really don’t have a better idea or way of doing things that would get the best possible results for the most amount of people. Like I said earlier, affirmative action is a necessary evil in an imperfect world.
O
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Yea nova it helps to have a team. Got to respect a lot of races that come into us (indians, arabs, asians). The ones who understand pals/teamwork have a leg up for sure. They can become elite in way less time.
If nine other people would form a team with 100k each we could get a mcdonalds for a mil and make a 100k each a year.
Of course I do kind of want the satisfaction of doing it all myself with my family team. Just saying yea if you got ten peeps easier.
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yeh gig
its terrible for a man to live with a woman who agrees with him about everything and believes in total male dominance. hell on earth
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nova:
That reminds me of when I was a young, white guy in college. I was a metalhead (Slayer, Morbid Angel, Autopsy, etc) so had long hair and wore all black all the time. I was talking to some vapid, liberal girl and upon the realization that I had a mind of my own, she said, “How can you be a conservative? I mean look at you.”
After that sort of thing happening a few times, I could no longer hold a leftists in anything but contempt.
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Be raising my kids to sacrifice self for the good of organization. Then the organization takes care of them. They will be little family communists living in a free country. I think it works on small scale just not countrywide. Mua Mua hahahaahha
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And SA, I hear what you’re saying, but cmon-IQ *is* indeed a status marker in this society.
And that doesn’t lead to Jim Crow. In Jim Crow, smart black guy dumb redneck white guy.
That’s not a difference to you?
And if you want to talk about results, the brothers are too few and too scared to ‘rise up’ once AA is taken away (and it WILL be gone in the next 20 years). So you’re right that the principles don’t matter on either side, but int he end the non-AA principles will win and their won’t be any rising up as a consequence.
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Nova makes a very powerful point. The only White guys who get shafted for real, by AA? Working class, lower tier White guys.
But you wanna know what’s even worse? They get pissed and shat on by their own a heck of a lot moreso than any Darkies could do to em. Like I said, the SWPLers and Elites, Left and Right, really feel some kind of way about the Joe Plumbers of the world. Can’t blame Pookie and Ray Ray for that.
But, because race gets a lot more sexytime, its easier to scaegoat, and besides, at least they on the same level. The SWPLers by definition, are outta Joe’s reach.
Deep.
O
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shocking inability to read tone for an extrovert like you. suggesting you might be happier with your responses if YOU wrote more clearly is not *me* being perturbed.
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SA,
Two things.
One: under Jim Crow, a highly educated Black Man had to be a Pullman Porter. Under Jim Crow Black Wall Street could be burned to the ground. Under Jim Crow, a returning Black soldier could still be made to sit at the back of the bus. Or told that he was “over qualified” for a job (my own grandfather heard that quite a bit), and so on.
One of the big problems w/HBD is that it doesn’t really give enough weight to the admittedly fewer smart Black folks out there; by definition, it has to lump people into groups. Otherwise, HBD really doesn’t mean anything. So, under both HBD and Jim Crow, a smart, industrious Black person can and usually does, get lost in the shuffle.
And two, you done got this thing all twisted: see, there’s *alot* of White folks out there, who really like to see articulate Brothas like Obama. And they’ll be moved to side w/such guys, SA. Which explains why affirmative action aint dead yet. Because there are still enough White folk out there-White folk who matter-who like the idea that having Obama types around will make the world a better place.
So, you see, “we” don’t need critical mass, so to speak. We just need to know how to play the game.
Are we learning yet?
O
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Obs
No, I don’t think you are learning yet. How do you compare Obama with people liking AA. White people liked him only insofar as they (mistakenly) thought he was intellectually qualified for the job.
You don’t hear people saying – well I know he’s a lot dumber than Bush, but isn’t it nice to have a black President.
White folk might feel sorry for the oppressed black guy. But the one who is rioting because, god forbid, he should have to feed and clothe himself without help from the government? Well, it’ll end up like this Gates situation. Majority of white folk do not view him as some poor old black man beat up on my the racist white cops.
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Dana, by all accounts, the only person here who seems to have a problem w/my writing, is you. Which, pardon my saying so, don’t a consensus make.
So, anyway, how was your day? Mine was lovely, and about to get even better. 🙂
O
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obs try to be reasonable. a critique of your writing style is not a “problem” with it. you are deliberately obscure and it gets in the way of your solid points.
its too hot for philly!!! that’s how my day is going! have a great one 🙂
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SA,
LOL. Let the numbers speak for itself. How many White votes did Obama get? And Gates? I suppose you have visited Cambridge lately. That’s like SWPL Central, lol.
Now I know the deal, a lot of this has to do w/the neverending battle for status among Whites, coupled w/the overwhelming need for the SWPLers to feel superior to whom they deem as their lessers, the Right. But it still serves Black folks’ interests. Obama’s POTUS.
Let’s try again: are we larnin yet? 😉
O
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SA,
LOL. Let the numbers speak for itself. How many White votes did Obama get? And Gates? I suppose you have visited Cambridge lately. That’s like SWPL Central, lol.
Now I know the deal, a lot of this has to do w/the neverending battle for status among Whites, coupled w/the overwhelming need for the SWPLers to feel superior to whom they deem as their lessers, the Right. But it still serves Black folks’ interests. Obama’s POTUS.
Let’s try again: are we learning yet? 😉
O
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Obsidian–
Maybe you can find a sentence or two in there to that effect but that isn’t what The Bell Curve envisioned. It did envision an IQ stratified society but not one spit into to only two parts. Rather continuous variation but with mostly assortive by IQ mating.
Roissy tells us why there are real limits as to how IQ assortive the mating is. High achieving smart men do usually want smart women but they want hot ones even more, to the extent they can get them and they meet a smartness threshold, at least for long term and marriage.
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Obs – What’s your point about Obama’s votes? That has nothing to do with AA. As for Gates, Cambridge police are backing their own and their average white folk – like I said, not average Cambridge SWPL as you said – back the cop.
So again, when AA disappears, and on the off chance some blacks manage to get the courage to violently riot, who’s going to stop the cops from cracking heads.
Violence begets violence, and the numbers and the power are on the side of the law.
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Dana,
What didn’t I make clear to you? I mean, let’s cut the crap and get right to the point-what is it I’m not being clear about? I’m asking YOU now, since you’re the one making an issue about it. Enlighten me.
O
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Obsidian — AA is the Achilles Heel of Obama, and Dems, and Blacks politically for the following reasons:
1. Buried in Obamacare is the demand for more Black and Hispanic Doctors. Quotas in other words, and given the limited supply of Blacks and Hispanics actually interested in becoming Doctors and qualified (we can debate the reasons, the supply is limited) this means lesser standards for Black and Hispanic Doctors. Who will be, mostly, incompetents the way a slow, White guy who runs a 6.4 40 yard dash would be in the NFL.
This means lots of dead White women from incompetent Black Doctors.
2. Rising demands for AA quotas are starting to push White women out. You are quite right that they are the main beneficiaries, however everything from rationing/horrific wait times in AA-ridden Obamacare, to incompetent Black/Hispanic doctors, to the Carbon Police AND severely limited opportunities in the Government/Corporate nexus of Obama’s government run economy push White women into the anti-AA camp.
Not all at once mind, not like flipping a light switch, but it does indeed come.
The Gates incident btw exposes the phony “racist” stuff like the straw that broke the Camel’s back. Most White guys know that Blacks play the racist card at every opportunity, put Black racial solidarity first, and seek a separate, unequal, “better” privilege in the “post-Racial” Obama regime.
AA was “afforadble” when:
A. Times were good, everyone was making money, it cost too much to rock the boat.
B. Government was relatively small, and AA costs did not impact most Whites.
C. Government played a very small role in people’s lives, staying out of medical/health care choices, daily lives (no Carbon police) and so on.
Now that Government is committed to monitoring every single aspect of people’s daily lives, Whites simply don’t trust an AA, Black Aristocracy (“don’t you know who I am?”) that loathes Whites to give them a fair shake. Particularly White Women who have their own health-care concerns.
Whites suffer now tremendously under AA: College Admissions favor unqualified, semi-literate Blacks and Hispanics. Government contracting, the only game in town for business activity, has a “No White Men Need Apply” sign out. White Women are way down on that list too. Government now makes the call for hiring, firing, promotion, and raises in the Corporate world. Blacks and Hispanics preferred, White women in third place.
It’s pure pie slicing patronage. You can’t have government run everything and not have Whites demand the biggest slices of the pie, and choosing the pie slicers. It’s that simple. It’s why Obama is stupid. He thinks the entire country is like Chicago, not getting the fact that most Whites fled that city long ago, and business fled the State for a less corrupt, AA-ridden machine politics environment before that.
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SA,
Yore still not getting it. The SWPLers in Cambridge are the folks who matter-the ones who decides who gets into Harvard, Yale, etc, et al, and who doesn’t. Who gets on the board of trustees, and who doesn’t. Who gets to join certain influential clubs, and who doesn’t. Who runs for POTUS, and who doesn’t.
These are people who like to think well of themselves, for numerous reasons. They like to think that Black folks have gotten a raw deal, and have the ability to make thins happen for a few of em. Hence, Obama. Whether he actually did or didn’t get over on AA isn’t the point-the point is that he can appeal to that crowd, a very, very important crowd, in contemporary American life. Again-AA aint a distant memory, despite all the Ward Connerlly stuff, because powerful SWPLers who matter, don’t want it to end.
Period.
Now, as for your other comments-research your history, SA. Black folks if they smart bedda not do the riot thing. Instead they should peacefully march and assemble. Makes it a lot tougher for the opposition to crack heads.
Think about it.
Remember: don’t hate the Playa. Hate the Game.
😉
O
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he SWPLers in Cambridge are the folks who matter…Who runs for POTUS, and who doesn’t.
What are you, nuts? Is that how we got Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Bill Clinton, George Bush Jr.? Obama is the first Cambridge-ish President in the last 30 years.
a very, very important crowd, in contemporary American life
Not true at all. Look how difficult it is for the Democrats to pass even the faintest traces of his agenda (carbon, health care, EFCA, etc.). When only 20% of the country defines itself as ‘liberal’, the ultraliberal have little influence.
Now, as for your other comments-research your history, SA. Black folks if they smart bedda not do the riot thing. Instead they should peacefully march and assemble. Makes it a lot tougher for the opposition to crack heads.
That was YOU who suggested they riot, Obs. They lose either way. Million man march for an end to segregation is one thing. Million man march for preferential treatment won’t go down so well. Sorry buddy.
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Obsidian — You also make the critical error of assuming that SWPL status is forever. Let me assure you that all those guys who are underwater in their mortgages, out of work, can no longer play SWPL games. SWPL were amplified out of demographic strength by bubble-economy wealth. Which has since collapsed.
Take guys who had money, could use it to pull girls, and are now broke, unemployed or underemployed, dateless, and now see Obama living it up like a Big Man, typical African style, lecturing on race, how “racist Whitey is” and so on, while he gets crushing taxes, no money coming in, and controls over every aspect of his life (carbon police).
Obama screwed him over, and he’ll get even. One way or another. Obama made a big deal out of spending most of the stimulus money on women (basically social workers, stuff like that, shoveled out to the states). So men owe him nothing, but their contempt, and women as I explained above, are threatened with the basics: health care and employment, as Obama slices the pie for Blacks and Hispanics first.
The Media, rich and feminized, will fly air cover for Obama for a long time, forever, but are sliding into irrelevance. Already “Impeach Obama” stickers are going up. He’s got a thin margin. Iran goes nuclear, we get defeated in Afghanistan, a major terrorist attack, the stickers will be replaced by massive protests calling for his removal. We get nuked, I could well see survival kick in and Obama removed very quickly, followed by trials for him and his people.
Obama was elected to deliver patronage to the Blue States, and the mostly White Yuppies and Women who voted for him, with Blacks and Hispanics in second not first place. Due to racial loyalty and him being a “Race Man” Obama put Blacks first, Hispanics second, and White women (his electoral base) third. This is a fatal and non-correctable error. It’s why Black leaders are total failures outside the pure race-baiting (Marion Barry) politics of the Black Community. They can’t put their White base ahead of being “Race Men.” [Only Denver Mayor Wellington Webb stands as an exception, being blessed by almost no Blacks in Denver and thus feeling no pressure to prove he’s “Black enough” etc.]
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Whiskey,
Please see my most recent comments to Seeking Alpha, and watch The Wire, then holla back your experience.
O
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oh, much better. A-
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SA,
Uh, didn’t both Bushes hail from SWPL land? And didn’t they both attend Yale?
Clinton: Ivy League
Obama: Ivy
Kennedy: Ivy
I honestly don’t recall where Reagan, Nixon or Carter went to school, but clearly there’s a preceedent for Presidents moving in the “right” social circles.
Whiskey may be onto something over the longterm, but as it currently stands, the SWPLers still got pull. That’s just a fact. Academia, Media, Politics, Big Law, even a good chunk of the Business World. Look how many people are taking a step back from the Republican label, instead preferring “Conservative” or worse yet, “Libertarian”. *shrug* I’m just sayin.
Anyway, yea you’re right I did mention the potential of riots but I should have been just a weebit more precise. My point is that SWPLers don’t like to see Black folk being mistreated, fellas. Especially the female ones. *shrug*
O
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Gig? wtf, babe? bunch of fugly girls…
I think you can do a lot better…
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The issue is that being mistreated is different from removing a thumb on the scale.
In my own experience, many “SWPLs” stop being so when they have kids. You can see this in the trendlines for the way white women vote: single ones tend to vote SWPL, married ones *much* less so. And I have yet to meet a white suburban mom with a male child who is not at the very best rather ambivalent about AA if not downright hostile towards it.
The reason why AA persists is not because there is a huge mass of SWPLs who like it, but rather that the left has largely “won” the dialogue, for the time being, that “equality” can only mean equality of outcome. That’s the reason AA still exists — a false premise which, like many of the false epithets of feminism, has become a part of the wallpaper of society.
As Whiskey points out, as the pie starts to shrink in the years ahead, the patience for that definition of equality is going to wear very thin, regardless of what the HYS crowd thinks. It already is wearing thin among married, ex-SWPLs. Give that some more time to brew under Obama, and support is going to slip away for AA steadily.
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From a comment over at Leiter Reports:
“Disorderly conduct” is defined as excluding the officer’s opinion. Whether he is shocked, offended, or made uncomfortable by behavior doesn’t matter. A citizen other than the officer must have complained.
http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2009/07/my-one-and-only-comment-on-the-arrest-of-henry-louis-gates-jr.html?cid=6a00d8341c2e6353ef0115723bed19970b#comment-6a00d8341c2e6353ef0115723bed19970b
Can anyone verify whether this is true in Massachusetts?
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Obs
Ivy League != SWPL.
If you define GW Bush as SWPL then the word has lost all meaning.
SWPL is a specific type of urban liberal. It’s an attitude. And Clinton, Bushes, and Reagan were not it. You know this.
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“I honestly don’t recall where Reagan, Nixon or Carter went to school, but clearly there’s a precedent for Presidents moving in the “right” social circles.”
But we surely all know where Eisenhower went to school. Scenic Ann Arbor, home of the DAAP BAMN Party and former stomping grounds of such illustrious commenters as GNPs are for Apes!
The pedigree for the man who jerks off into Gisele Bundchen’s mouth, and the inspiration for such pickup community figureheads as Christian Hudson of The Social Man and AJ & Jordan from the Pickup Podcast!
Indeed, James Earl Jones plied his method-acting long before he was cast as Thulsa Doom, directing many a woman to jump off a cliff at his mere suggestion!
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Reagan went to Eureka College. A little third-tier school in northern California. I remember some leftie snark in the 80s about his intelligence due ot his non-elite alma mater.
Carter went to the US Naval Academy. Very un-SWPL, at least in Carter’s time.
Don’t recall where Nixon wmen.
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Nova,
Hate to be the bearer of bad news chief, but Women are getting married less and less. More single Women in the country than married, and we all know the end of that story-single Women vote Democratic all the way, all day, errday. Especially on the coasts. Where most people in the country live.
As for Whiskey’s prescriptions, it might be true, but it kinda reminds me of Global Warming-the real results might not be seen for years yet. So, we’ll see.
O
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To tie my last comment to Game: I once banged a chick who was a student at Eureka College.
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Another medical error I personally know of(not the girl whose foot hurts everyday forever), is my first cousin once removed(Is that how you say it?), anyway she is around 50. A nurse. About a year and a half ago she had back-surgery. She had fairly bad pain that was making it hard for her to work. Surgery made the pain much worse.
Hasn’t worked since the surgery. About a year and a half of lost wages + the cost of the surgery. I ‘guess’ if she had just stayed off her feet for three months, the pain would have gone away. Assuming she magically gets better tomorrow(laughter removed because this just isn’t funny), the cost of this medical error is much more than a 100,000 dollars.
If a black person mugged me and stole my wallet and credit cards, then I imagine my losses could be as much as a few thousand dollars.
Now, who should I be more afraid of?
I understand the being mugged is EXCITING, and a great story you can blog about! Everyone can get together and have a shouting match! The pro-black people can say their lines, and the pro-white can say their lines. Theater! Drama! It’s FUN!
So I can see why you would like talking about it.
Being crippled, that isn’t so much fun to talk about, is it?
And the doctor is SOCIALLY DOMINANT, so you aren’t supposed to criticize him.
Yet, in a country that cared to continue to exist, it is necessary to criticize the doctor.
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Mu As for Whiskey’s prescriptions, it might be true, but it kinda reminds me of Global Warming-the real results might not be seen for years yet. So, we’ll see.
Whiskey may need a prescription or two if he doesn’t take a chill pill soon . I looked into the archives at his posts a year ago because I’ve been noticing a maniacal tilt to his writing lately. He was much calmer a year ago.
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“Hate to be the bearer of bad news chief, but Women are getting married less and less.”
I remember a stat that said that just over 50% of the corporate career girls were unmarried. What is not often remembered is that they also asked if they would like to be married with kids; 85% of them said yes. Moral of the story: just because they are not married, does not mean they don’t want to be. Who, after all, buys all those “How to get married” books at Barnes & Noble.
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SA,
Well, SWPLers do tend to hail from the Ivys, yes? Hey look, SA, we can bat this thing back and forth for the rest of the night. But at the end of the day, the SWPL crowd is winning, Man. They. Just. Are.
Now, if you and others who oppose them wanna actually get something done, you better get busy. Because commenting on a blog aint gonna get it.
O
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Whites suffer now tremendously under AA: College Admissions favor unqualified, semi-literate Blacks and Hispanics
blks and latinos take 10% of college admissions at elite universities, a little more or less at other universities in this country.
Furthermore, when AA is removed, I don’t want to hear you cry when Asians (and Jews) are taking all the spots at the Ivy League. *because you know Asians alone can take every seat at the ivy league whiskey. don’t start the harping about being a real american blah blah blah.
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Dana –
I think gig is wrong. I think you’re probably great for your husband to live and deal with it. It’s the rest of the world that likely finds you intolerable.
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””’Indeed, James Earl Jones plied his method-acting long before he was cast as Thulsa Doom, directing many a woman to jump off a cliff at his mere suggestion!”””””’
That fucker did it first now I am pissed.
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Joe
bingo
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You tell em Chic. And now you see why I’m so ambivalent about AA; why I call it a “necessary evil”. Because I recognize how messy this thing can be.
Right now, the easy scapegoats are Blacks and Hispanics-but what happens when they aint around there to kick around no more? And when, as you said, Asians and Jews are kicking butt and taking ALL the choice spots at the elite schools in the country? What’ll be the argument, the rationale, the excuse, then? Can’t use “merit”, heck they on that. Can’t use the racial angle either, afterall, wasn’t that the very thing they were griping on and on to us about?
So, White folks will just be slowly displaced by higher performing Asians and Jews. Will they be cool w/that?
Time will tell…
O
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I’d live let dana in the fam if she wasn’t married he he he
Whites are gonna have to take the easy way out and just go the simple way to be elite.
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Quit sacrificing their time and work for nothing start sacrificing it to chill.
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“So, White folks will just be slowly displaced by higher performing Asians and Jews. Will they be cool w/that? ”
Seeing how Jews are over-represented by an order of magnitude in a good number of fields compared to their population and few people even notice while fewer care, it seems that, yes, they will be.
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Capt. Napalm,
Tru dat, the Jews are definitely overrepresented in a number of areas. But now they’ll be joined by Asians and Indians-and pretty much crowd out what little room is left for White folk. Only the most connected and rishest White kids will be able to get on. I’m asking, how *that* new dynamic will play out?
Because it will…soon…
O
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Man I hate this race-based division bullshit.
When someone gets to cut ahead in line, it isn’t right.
Ever.
You might like it, if you’re the one cutting, but you’ll hate it when you’re waiting in line.
The people who control things, are pitting us against each other, so that we will continue to be divided.
They’ll use religion, money, race, anything they can think of to keep the average man down.
Blacks and hispanics are getting the special treatment now, whites got theirs before.
Problem is, the US Constitution strictly forbids ALL THAT SHIT.
Equal protection under the law. Period!
The Constitution is the law by which our government must abide. The more they disregard it, the worse all our lives get.
AA is wrong. Just as segregation was wrong. Just as slavery was wrong.
If you deny that, don’t be surprised when some white-power politician uses it against you in the future.
White men ended slavery. Even when a large percentage of white men, benefitted from it financially.
Black men must do the same with AA, or else become hypocrites.
If you search your hearts, I think you’ll know this is true.
Sorry Obsidian. Being ambivalent about AA is the wrong decision.
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If Jews, Asians and Indians overtake whites in elite jobs/universities, because of their abilities… So be it.
Any reasonable person would not resent such a thing, just as reasonable white men do not resent the fact that the NFL is 90% black.
We watch, we cheer. We wouldn’t have it any other way.
Jackie Robinson and Jim Brown did not break the colored barriers by getting a government mandated preference, or a hand-out.
The did it because they were the best. Period.
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AJ,
Yea, I hear ya, Man. But you see, the problem is that a lot of Brothas can’t get on because a lot of Whites simply won’t let go of their own animus. Like I said earlier, the Univ of Chicago study clearly shows that.
Half of all African Americans are either ambivalent about AA, or outright against it. So, how this thing is handled is very important; tonality is key.
O
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Obama could have played AA to his hearts content. But he had to reject the Big Government Chicago model in favor of small stuff, because America is too big, too many Whites, with no where else to go for both Big Government and AA to exist.
AA and Big Government together means most Whites lose daily, in almost everything, and that is as unsupportable as California pols taxing people out of their homes in the 1970’s. Result: Nobody and cranky old Man Howard Jarvis wins with Prop 13.
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Comment_Whatever
I’ll bite. How do you know this was due to a Medical Error? Pain symptoms are notoriously subjective and poorly corellated with tissue injury or pathology.
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a lot of Whites simply won’t let go of their own animus.
This is becoming a tard fest. Roissy, could you post somethig new?
Animus? ANIMUS??? Blacks are the walking chips-on-shoulders if I ever fucking saw one. ANIMUS?? White men ended slavery, gave you a way to live like civilized human beings, gave you freedom and opportunity, gave you everything we built, gave you a leg up a million times, and you still don’t have the decency to say “thank you?”
You know, I don’t even need you to say “thank you.” How about if just cut back your murder of whites a tad? Ok, raping white females too. If all that is too much to ask, how about if you stop thumping that tard music from your piece of shit cars at every damn intersection I stop at?
Rant over. I’m back to my normal self of thinking Obsidian is basically aaight.
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Obisdian-“But you see, the problem is that a lot of Brothas can’t get on because a lot of Whites simply won’t let go of their own animus”
Sorry man, Jim Brown and Jackie Robinson got death threats. It didn’t stop them. The animus of white people is a poor excuse for not trying.
“Half of all African Americans are either ambivalent about AA, or outright against it.
If that’s true, they need to vote that way, and boycott business/black leaders who advocate it.
That’s the only way it will end, and in my opinion, the only way that Black men will achieve the level of success that they have with professional sports, in all other professions.
Despite what some HBD advocates claim, a lower average intelligence will not prevent Black men from being the best doctors, engineers, scientists, as overall IQ is only 1 part of the equation.
They will however, need to work harder on their studies than the people of other races that they compete against, just as they clearly do on the field/weight room.
In fact, their almost single handed dominance of pro sports is why I absolutely believe they could dominate any career field they wished to.
All it takes is the will.
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Whiskey,
To answer your Wire question first: the reason why I’ve been on you to watch it is because it answers many of your oft-repeated concerns about tv shows and media: it shows in brutally honest fashion, the very things you pointed out above. Black criminals, ruthless, heartless, totally amoral criminals, killing nothing but Black folks. Day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. No contrived stuff like you’d see on Law & Order.
Two, because the writing is superb. I defy you to find another show w/writing anywhere near as good. Its a sharp, tight and well put together show, that demands that the watcher pay close attention to the details. Plus, unlike L&O, The Wire’s plots and story arcs takes place over the course of an entire season.
Three, though Wome liked The Wire as well, clearly its a guy show. Cops and robbers, Man, and again, no contrived crap. The actors LOOK like cops, not like Barbie and Ken playing cops. All racially appropriate. All brutally honest and devastatingly real.
That you, a Man who’s blog exists to examine the role of entertainment and media in the larger culture, outright refuses to watch one of the most critically acclaimed tv shows ever in the history of the medium, speaks volumes about your own intellectual honesty, Whiskey. And I don’t mean that as a slight or an insult. I’m being straightup w/you, Man to Man, Playa to Playa. Its one thing to hold a personal opinion, fine. Its something else to refuse to even look at the evidence, becaue it confuses you with the facts.
As for Politics American Style, again Whiskey, don’t hate the Playa, hate the Game. White folks been doing just what you describe, both to each other and definitely to Black folks, for CENTURIES. Its our turn now. *shrugs*
Try not to be a Sore Loser. America hates that.
You can get The Wire for next to nothing on Netflix, Man. If you’re truly interested in the facts, you’d watch it. If on the other hand, you’re interested in your non-informed opinion, you won’t.
The Obsidian
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Novaseeker—
The whole use of SWPL here is problematic. A whole lot of the elite are Republicans or vote more republican that democrat. (I realize that the SWPL ethos parodied at the blog is in fact a fashionably elite leftist thing but that gets lost in a lot of people’s use of the term and just becomes “elite whites”. ) It’s the media and to a lesser extent academia who especially like AA, and perpetuate it with their distorted accounts of it and of history.
The leftist elite is heavily jewish lead. Jews are probably a minority of reporters (particularly on air new readers as opposed to producers and print journalists), but they’re a large minority and have very influential and effective attack networks against anything edging over towards what they regard as “racism” – i.e. telling the truth about the heritability of IQ and so on, and even opposing AA or advocating deporting illegal immigrants.
Anyway, it’s a leftist thing, and left liberals control the media, including the even more influential entertainment media.
If the media turned strongly against AA, it would be gone with a few years.
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Dana—
I think this is exaggerated. For one thing AA might be phased out. For another even it wasn’t it probably would be in effect. A lot of private and government admissions and human resources departments (consider who tends to staff them) would tend to resist. Other places would jump right on the opportunity to change. So it would amount to a phase out. Mostly blacks and some Latinos would just get offers from less good school or less high entry points in corps, government, etc.
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AJ,
I’ve mentioned before, that Jackie Robinson actually wasn’t the best the Negro Leagues had to offer, he was selected in large part because of his temperment. Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson were way too proud to endure what Robinson did in order to break the color barrier. And they were far and away better players.
So much for the “merit” argument.
PA,
I would kindly urge you go and read up on that Univ of Chicago “White name/Black name Resume” study I talked about earlier. It’ll explain a lot of things.
But we need to be very clear on something here. Its one thing to be cordial, to be professional, to just be nice. But, you see, for some Whites, that’s not enough. For them, Black folks must genuflect in their presence, in acknowledgement of White society’s noblese oblige. Like Black folk ain’t never contributed nothin’ to this thing here. Hmmmph.
I pride myself on being cordial, respectful, even genteel. But I will never, ever, bow before any Man. And unlike other Black folks you or anyone else here may crow on about, aint nobody gave me nothin’. I earned everything I got, through seriously hard work. And proud of it.
So, what may appear to you and others as a “chip on the shoulder” is just a matter of standing tall. Irreverence.
Justified.
O
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Obsidian
Oh rubbish. It’s well written but so are other things. The first several seasons of the Sopranos. House. Rome.
The wire is a rather depressing show – and stays that way.
As well it certainly didn’t disabuse me of my race realism realizations. The opposite. So I have to give it credit for realism. I sometimes wonder how lefties can see it and not question their “nothing’s innate” beliefs.
But you see I’m not really interested in wallowing in black lowlife crime and those doing the Sisyphus task of trying to combat it.
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No Obsidian you want to try to wake the white man up. Your scared as fuck he is about to pull a da and just not give a fuck about making the sacrifices to keep things running. Just save money and drop off the map without having to struggle to prove shit. Relax and actually enjoy life just like people who have a little bit in a non world power.
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Obsidian- Your opinion that Jackie Robinson was not the best black player is irrelevant.
Robinson and Brown were better than the WHITE players, without anyone giving them special treatment.
In fact they had to be better than White players on, and off the field.
That’s Merit to the nth degree.
It proves my point even more.
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PA White men ended slavery, gave you a way to live like civilized human beings, gave you freedom and opportunity, gave you everything we built, gave you a leg up a million times,
PA WTF man, what have you built in this country? You are were just a teenaged johny come lately from Poland when you entered this country. . If I didn’t know better, I would swear you ancestors came over on the Mayflower.
Please don’t tell Mu or I, who both have lenages in this counry that date back far longer than your own, about what WM gave blk Americans. Yes WM(&WW and Blks) ended slavery but don’t forget that WM started slavery in America. Had the European and or Native Americans been up to the job, Africans may have never been brought to America. So do yourself a favor and demean and ostracize those poor pre Elais island whites whose ancestors weren’t willing chattel slaves.
PA and you still don’t have the decency to say “thank you?” Thanks for proving Mu’s point about blks needing to genuflect before whts. Why would either of us need to say “thank you” to you anyway? If anything, it should be the other way around.
this post is a little mean. I don’t mean to be but you hit a nerve.
@Doug1 – It would be nice if you called GNP for his madnes in the same way that you do Mu. It looks like you are willing to overlook GNP’s assholery because he is one from the same clan so to speak.
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Whiskey First off, Jews and Asians are so small a group that even if all go into Ivies, which is unlikely, there’s still plenty of room for Whites.
What’s 5% of 300 million? How many slots do Harvard, Yale and Princeton have for their incoming fall/09 class?
Whiskey to Obsidian: Why would I want to watch the Wire edit when it would possibly change my perception of American culture and all that angers me
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PA –
What have you built that blacks have to thank you for? You’re no more responsible for great inventions than any of the blacks in this thread are.
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Doug The wire is a rather depressing show – and stays that way.
It is but life is rather depressing too when you think about it. I must say that the writers of The Wire made the most realistic show about the inner city ever. Shoes how kids are doomed to fail from the start.
John S.
O,
I’d assume his IQ is above average, but then rap doesn’t require too many intellegence tests to get in. What’s the point you’re trying to drive home?
John here are few for you. Surprisingly, some rapers and singers are rather bright people. I guess it’s the lure of fame and money are the reason they leave academia for hollywood.
Raw digga, she scored a 1340(old ed) on her SATs.
John Legend, graduated entered University of Penn at 16 , grad age 20. His degree is not in the humanties.
Ryan Leslie, entered Harvard University at age 16, graduated at age 20 with honors.
Rapper Piles(tp) was an RN before he became a rapper.
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Obs/Chic/Joe: are you so utterly incapable if any kind of self-criutical introspection?
Go lay flowers on Christopher Newsom’s and Channon Christian’s grave. Picket BET for lionizing the six Jena pieces of trash. Fix Detroit — we gave it to you in good shape; what’d you do to it? Tell that simian thug to stop slouching and pull up his pants. And stop thumping your damn shit around people who don’t wanna hear it.
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cptnapalm Seeing how Jews are over-represented by an order of magnitude in a good number of fields compared to their population and few people even notice while fewer care, it seems that, yes, they will be.
History says something different. Furthermore, since we count Europeans with dark brown eyes and hair as white, they get a pass on phenotype.
a.j travis The people who control things, are pitting us against each other, so that we will continue to be divided.
They’ll use religion, money, race, anything they can think of to keep the average man down.
So true aj, so true.
lonely looney lurker You have to have an open wound (as a male) on your penis/exposed area to have a good shot.
Your mouth is the open wound that seeps sewage from your bipolar brain. Keep having your fun but when you get that cold that won’t go away, or a yeast infection (thrush) in your mouth, don’t say chic noir didn’t warn you.
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Doug,
OK-name another series as good or better in terms of writing than The Wire. According to the Wikipedia entry, The Wire was considered *better* than The Sopranos *and* Six Feet Under, the two flagship shows on HBO at the time of The Wire’s premiere. Again, see for yourself: critics basically agree, The Wire is considered one of the best dramas ever made.
And yup, one reason for that is the “depressing” subject matter, which, to let Whiskey tell it, never is seen on primetime tv. WRONG, it is. The Wire ran for five seasons.
There’s simply no getting around it, Doug-The Wire is proof positive that all that Whiskey and anyone else may say about network tv is simply not true. Now don’t tell me you’re gonna coverup your eyes and ears and not watch it too?
O
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Chic-
Your comments are just as inflamitory to some whites as PA’s comments to you.
Do you care?
My ancestors did come on the mayflower. They did win the civil war.
You don’t need to thank me.
But you DO owe them and the others who purchased your freedom with their blood.
As do I.
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Mandy been here a while I’m sure the school would have loved to attract more NAMs but for whatever reason, engineering is not on the radar for some.
At most inner city high schools you’re lucky if you one trig class much less calculus. Science classes don’t have labs.
Mandy been here, I prefer having AA aournd but it was done away with tomarrow, I want a measure put in place that assures me blks students who qualify, aren’t rejected to create spaces for less qualifed whts.
Schools should use a universal standard, raynard in Harlem should have calculus taught in his high school in the same way that Johhny does in his suburban high school. Then we will have reached a point where people will need to shut up or put up. Instead of parents buying their child the latest cell phones or video games, parents will spend money on wagons or tutors to give their child every advantage.
Doug1 No. Quite a few blacks do better than the average white or Asian taking the bar exam or on their college grades
Shakes head in agreement. Check out Cornell West’s bar exam results. IIRC his scores were commented on in The Bell Curve or Dasouza’s book.
[editor: either you don’t understand the concept of statistical averages, or you are a liar. as you are a ‘my race, right or wrong’ bigot of low character, my bet is on the latter.]
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PA,
Why don’t White folks who are doing well don’t go to Appalachia, or Kentuckey or West Virginia or any of those other White Trash States, and work to make them better? Why don’t you?
O
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Now THIS I can agree with. Well said.
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You sincerely believe all blacks owe you a debt of gratitude for things you have no hand in inventing and you say I’M the one incapable of self-critical introspection? Seriously? When you realize you specifically have nothing to be thanked for then I’ll give you props for self-critical introspection.
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Chic,
Aint it fascinating to hear the very same White guys, who piss and moan about how network tv ain’t “keeping it real” about Black criminal depravity, then when you or I or anyone else mentions The Wire they twist themselves into Zohan-like pretzels trying to get around that FACT? I mean, wow, the cognitive dissonance is deafening at this point.
Whew!
O
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chic noir:
College entrants are mostly drawn from recent high school graduates, am I right? Asians would not take over the Ivy League anytime soon without massive immigration, at least not unless you opened it up to anyone in the world and paid their tuition too.
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PA- “simian?”
That shit is wrong.
Check yourself.
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Hold up, Joe:
Let’s not get this twisted, it aint like White folks were doing all the dying for Black boys during the Civil War and we just sitting on sidelines:
[editor: white folks, black boys? you’re letting your impartiality show, ob!]
we bled plenty, too, and THEN was reneged on when it came time to get that 40 Acres and a Mule. Ever heard of the Buffalo Soldiers?
We hav fought in EVERY war this country’s ever had, often w/little to show for it. So, while I freely admit that Whites shed blood in the Civil War, so too did Black folk.
And does anyone mention that fact?
I’m just sayin.
O
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Obs – I’ve been to pretty much every county in the Appalachia. Only slightly exaggerating. They are for the most part good people. They aren’t a burden on you or me. They aint trash and they don’t need my help with anything.
Joe – why are you so fixated on the “thank you.” I followed up with other things. Mull them over. Introspection.
Look, I like you guys and that’s it for my foray into race for now, but the truth is, you are used to having your assess kissed by whites. You are rarely called on your bullshit, and so you act very surprised when that actually happens.
[editor: this would explain the draw of this place.]
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AJ – thuggish slouching is a “simian” posture.
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chic noir
No they can’t.
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PA,
The point is, that White folks don feel compelled to answer for the actions of poor White folk, so why do they want me or Chic or Joe to do it for poor Blacks? Hmm? Talk about a double standard.
Y’all gotta make up your minds here-are we gonna deal w/Black folks as a group, right or wrong, ie the HBD argument-or-are we gonna deal w/Black folk as individuals? Seems to me there’s some wrestling in the collective White psyche on that point that needs a bit of its own introspection to work out.
I’m just sayin.
O
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r either you don’t understand the concept of statistical averages, or you are a liar. as you are a ‘my race, right or wrong’ bigot of low character, my bet is on the latter
Please explain.
Guns
DA Chic Noir missing at same time. Both live in NYC coincidense I think not.
The two of us along with default wentroad tripping for a few days. DA and Default went further west but I came back after a few days.
@ joe and AJ- race comments fly around this blog every single day esp those directed at blk women. For the most part, I don’t (care or)respond unless someone has a genuine question. The one time I let it ripe folks want to jump on me and say that I’m wrong.
How about the things PA has posted on this thread? Compare my one comment to all of his. Are there a different set of rules for me?
Sorry, I’m not the genuflecting jig and smile type. If I like and respect you, I like and respect you… period but I can’t/won’t do the okie dokie negro dance because that’s not who I am.
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A.J. Travis
PA- “simian?”
That shit is wrong.
Check yourself.
Now you see what I’m saying right???
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Roissy,
Why not address my actual point? Is it true or not that Blacks fought in the Civil War, and then were turned around and treated unfairly? True or false? Were the Buffalo Soldiers real, or not? Did Blacks fight in every major military campaign this country’s ever had, or not? And were they treated fairly while they shed blood for this country? Hmm? Or not? I mean, if we’re gonna read the historical record, I’m down, but let’s read the whole card, not cherrypick it.
O
[editor: i was poking fun at your choice to use the terms “white boys” and “black folks”. the churning waters of racial solidarity run deep.]
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dana–
I agree with Joe.
You strike me as a super supportive, very loyal, interesting, great wife. So long as you loved you husband and vice versa which you obviously do. Once in, you’re in, unless it got horribly wrong. Great attributes.
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I wasn’t agreeing with his attack on you, I was agreeing with AJ’s statement that the whites we owe a debt of gratitude are the ones from the past that actually did the accomplishments and inventing that made this country great. The average white person today deserves as much credit for those accomplishments as the average black person, which is zero. We’re all free riders on the accomplishments of the great people of the past.
If you tell a white person today that they owe you an apology for slavery, they’ll say “Those were my ancestors, you can’t hold me responsible for that” or “I’m from an immigrant stock, my family never benefited from slavery.” And I agree with that. But on the same token, you can’t turn around and claim credit for great accomplishments either for those exact same reasons. Most whites today never directly contributed to those great accomplishments and most aren’t even directly descended from the great bloodlines responsible for them either.
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We surely all know that Eisenhower went to West Point!
You’re thinking of Ford (Michigan, then Yale Law School).
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PA- “AJ – thuggish slouching is a “simian” posture.”
I’ve said this to other people here, and now I’m going to say it to you:
Everybody fucks up, at one time or another.
You just did.
Don’t try to rationalize. You just make it worse.
You chose that word for it’s negative racial meaning.
Swallow your pride. Man the fuck up, and take it back/apologize.
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Why would i mull over the other things when you still haven’t addressed the first point I made. What do I specifically owe you thanks for? How have you enriched my life in a tangible way? I’m not going to mull over the other things because they have nothing to do with what I took offense too.
“You” didn’t give Detroit. “I” didn’t receive it. I don’t recall ever living there, why should I take it as some personal failing if other blacks fucked it up? Fuck em. You’re still engaging in that same logical fallacy of taking credit for what others in your race have done. I don’t do that. As long as I live my life right, why do I give a fuck what those blacks did?
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jesus christ, too much bacardi this weekend!
thanks for the catch! an adlai stevenson i am not.
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Chic Noir
You asked me why I don’t take GNPs are for Apes to task for getting over the top the way I sometimes do Obsidian.
The first answer is I don’t read him much.
The second is that O bats him back quite effectively.
the third is what when I have read him, he’s a mixture of decent points and not so good ones, with too much racial animus. But you see I’ve come to realize that Obsidian has at least as much, just in a smooth and reasonable sounding way.
I think GNP Apes was right btw in his estimation of the percentage of the Atlantic slave trade that came to America, his 5-6.5% versus your 13%. I base that on my recollection, perhaps faulty, of what Sowell said in one of his culture trilogy books. I trust him far more than the vast majority of others on such a subject. He may be on the black right but I’ve never seen him lie or cover up or vastly exaggerate, unlike a LOT of afrocentric professors.
the fourth is that I yet to see on this forum any black person attack another black person’s position on a racial controversy, when there was any heat in the air at all. Never. Certainly I’ve never seen you do it. Instead I’ve regularly seen you support Obsidian and he you in such cases, and the same with others. At most they stay shut.
the fifth issue is that you want me to nonetheless not stay shut. Well I do like to try to be evenhanded chic. I don’t have racial animus. At all. I have sometimes called whites out for being racially baiting and not giving stuff a rest. But I’m not remotely bend over either. I’d like to see it coming both ways, in a place where there are now a lot of blacks.
If I see it coming some from you all, expect it from me. Otherwise, only when it’s extreme.
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I know what you’re saying Roissy, and hey, while frat boy style humor is lost on me, I don’t knock it for anyone else; have at it, do your thing. But again, if we’re gonna deal in facts in this here discussion, then let’s read the whole card and not parts of it. That’s all I’m sayin.
O
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Doug,
I’ve taken Dave Alex to task on quite a few of his views related to race, specifically wrt Black folks and most especially, Black Women. They’re easily found in the archives.
Just wanted to note that.
O
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TY doug,
my husband’s life is a testament to the horrors of the post feminist age, from the day his “teen mother” had him. his story touched me deeply– i shared some of it before. i was always a “man’s woman” but he’s the one who really told me the truth about how men think and i’m grateful to him for it, among many other things. if i were to decide to practice law tomorrow i’d do father’s/men’s rights– a grave injustice is being tolerated in this country.
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@AJ- thank you for that.
@Joe- Okay, we agree.
My grandfather owes Ben Franklin a big thank you for bifocal glasses.
/Chic/Joe: are you so utterly incapable if any kind of self-criutical introspection? I am and have done so many times on this blog and others. Many people*flashes mirror at pa* are not.
fun fact: My commenting privileges were taken away on a female oriented blog because I dared to call a mother and teen daughter team who blog about BJ technique and how to take it up the bottom, stomach turning.
So I catch hell on female as well as male oriented sites because most of my views fall somewhere in the middle. I find that most people are incapable of deep introspection, even on the internet. If something or someone does not go along with their way of thinking, they want to shut it out without taking a closer look.
@ PA- Fix Detroit — we gave it to you in good shape; what’d you do to it?
the flip side of this would be …Russia gave back Poland, go fix it. I can’t account for an entire 38 million African-Americans. I can only tell you about my experiences, experiences of family and friends, as well as what I’ve read.
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Joe, the same reasoning applies to white men standing in the back of the line due to AA. How many of them are directly, personally responsible for oppressing blacks? AA is grossly unfair as long as they live their life right. Just like you, they don’t need to give a fuck what others of their race have done.
How about, blacks don’t need to thank anybody, whites don’t need to apologize nor take credit for past achievements and affirmative action needs to end.
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Chic,
If you scroll back to my comments I made around Fri or so, you’ll see that I address this curious phenomenon among some Whites, who cannot seemt to make meaningful distinctions btw and among Black folk. This is why I say White folks, for those whom this applies, have to decide which way they wanna go w/this-either Black folks are lumped in together as a group, or, we’re dealt with on a case by case basis. Admittedly, the former is a lot easier to do than the latter.
O
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I totally agree. Please don’t my conflate my position with that of any other black posters here. I am not on a “blame whitey” kick. I’m anti-Affirmative Action. I agree with everything you just said.
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Rum said:
Well, it’s great that one of the only gauges PATIENTS have to measure a doctor’s competence turns out to be, in the opinion of doctors, poorly correlated. I’d say that’s one ‘fact’ doctors get ‘use’ out of. Don’t they?
I’ve encountered the attitude the AMA encourages in doctors, so I feel no desire to give them any benefit of the doubt whatsoever.
Let me ask you a question Rum. With such fierce competition to get into on of the few medical school slots, and insanely rising health care costs ever year, why doesn’t anyone open another medical school?
Why are there LESS MEDICAL SCHOOLS IN THE US NOW THAN A HUNDRED YEARS AGO?
The AMA is why.
http://mises.org/article.aspx?Id=1547
‘Unfortunately’ from the AMA’s perspective, foreigner doctors are moving in and practicing heavily. It’s unfortunate from my perspective too that unqualified foreigners are being turned into doctors because the AMA refuses to allow Americans to become doctors.
Let me repeat that.
Foreigners are becoming doctors in America because the AMA refuses to allow Americans to become doctors.
Foreigners are becoming doctors in America because the AMA refuses to allow Americans to become doctors.
Foreigners are becoming doctors in America because the AMA refuses to allow Americans to become doctors.
Got it?
The AMA is insane, and it is partially in control of health care. Then this talk about ‘trust’ starts. What? Where would this ‘trust’ come from?
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Obsidian
No it doesn’t.
Steve Sailer and GNXP talk about all kinds of human diversity, some of which benefits blacks.
The somewhat higher black testosterone levels I talked directly to you about before you ever mentioned it on this blog, though you often have since, comes from posts on GNXP. Of course you then went and exaggerated it and turned it into your Platonic spheres, rather than overlapping bell curves, way of thinking, with no care as to how close the medians were etc.
There are MANY other examples. Like fast twitch muscle fiber being at a higher percentage among West African blacks than anyone else, and thus lending an HBD basis for black dominance in sprint and jumping athletics, since they’ve been allowed and able (money wise) to compete on a American and international scale.
In other words your quoted claim is TOTALLY BOGUS.
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Chic-“Are there a different set of rules for me?”
Of course there is.
You’re a woman (as far as I can tell.) No matter what the situation, women always seem to get an easier ride.
“Now you see what I’m saying right???”
(God help me.) Yes, I see what you’re saying.
But the way you’re saying it, ain’t helping.
Unless PA takes that shit back, and apologizes, he’s a racially prejudiced person.
[editor: oh fuck off. pa isn’t a waa waa call the waaambulance “racially prejudiced person” for noticing, quite accurately, that a lot, maybe even a majority, of young black men carry themselves with a simian-like gait, all loping and strutting, and they probably do this because they *know* it’s a body posture that’s aggressively intimidating to white people.]
By all means, point that out, and help other people realize it, so we can avoid him and his bullshit.
But that doesn’t give you an excuse to paint all, or even most, white people with that same brush. Nor use equally inflammatory words (“okie dokie negro dance.”)
PA, and those who think like him, are the minority. Act accordingly.
[you misspelled “and those who say out loud like him”.]
Obsidian- Yes, black people fought in every war the US has ever had. I owe them my freedom, as well as the US soldiers of every other race who fought.
But the vast majority of people who freed the slaves were white. For valid reasons (I don’t know of any successful wide-spread slave revolts. They even killed Spartacus eventually.) If white people had sat the Civil War out, blacks would most likely, still be slaves.
The Black overthrow of apartheid in South Africa could not be duplicated in the US, in my opinion, because White people are the minority in S.A., not here.
The point I was making… And I know you know this, was that it was against the interest of a lot of white people to end slavery, but they did anyway.
I can’t think of any black people in America that wanted slavery to continue.
Black people will need to do the same in order to end AA.
But they should.
Because one injustice does not justify another.
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Obsidian–
Oh and as for your trolling around tertiary or below sights like half sigma for paranoia, what’s up with that.
He’s not where ideas come from, much at all.
Sailer and GNXP on the other hand, oh yeah. Derbyshire’s good a reasonable synthesis and summarization of it all. If always terminally gloomy. Well almost always. Despite a lovely family and sexy/pretty looking Chinese wife.
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Arpie,
A big part of the problem that I readily acknowledge about affirmative action is that its a deeply political issue. Why? Because, when it comes to jobs w/prestige, that matter, that gives real power and influence, they like anything else of high value, are scarce. Like Whiskey said, and he is rights, affirmative action is just the latest wrinkle in spoils politics. Its about who gets on, and why. And anyone who tries to float that “merit” stuff is either very young, very naive, or very disengenuous.
For decades, Blacks were deliberately excluded from participating fully in American life. True, that’s largely not the case anymore. But getting into the pipeline to get the jobs and positions that matter, well, that’s still something of a coveted affair. Affirmative action is but one political remedy to address that. Its far from perfect, got a lot of problems w/it. But unless we do something large swaths of Black folks will simply be left out of participating in American life, and that’s simply unacceptable to Blacks. It just is.
So…*shrug*
O
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AJ – shut your hole. You, punk, aren’t gonna tell me to apologize to anyone. I’ll tell you when I fuck up and owe someone an apology. Not you, pisswad. Got it, sexless douchebag? If you were bothered by my characterization of a slouching thug as “simian” then maybe you are the one with a dirty mind, not me.
Go fuck yourself and your goofy ass racial white-knighting. You are a joke.
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Obsidian–
the Wire is an HBO premium pretty big bucks to subscribe (for middle class family Americans) cable show, not a network one.
It doesn’t have near the audience that popular network tv shows do.
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the fourth is that I yet to see on this forum any black person attack another black person’s position on a racial controversy,
I have, I guess you don’t visit the right forums. I’ve seen things hit the wall on blk forums for people like packman jones and michael vick.
when there was any heat in the air at all. Never. Certainly I’ve never seen you do it. Instead I’ve regularly seen you support Obsidian and he you in such cases, and the same with others
Not true sir
*Thinks to self*
Too bad default isn’t here any longer.
Three examples off the top of my head
1.Did you not see me pull Mu’s ear a week or two ago when his first comment on a game post was something along the lines of “how is can this work for me”. I recall mentioning that it isn’t always about us because we are 15% of the country and Roissy is a white SWPL so he can’t answer that question. There are blk pua blogs for Mu to go to if he wants a blk perspective.
You should remember this example because you used a portion of my comment to him to make your own point.
2. Or how about the time I disagreed with him on the need for a blk James Bond? I wrote James Bond should continue to be a white Welsh/British man.
3. The use of Iphone game working with blk women.
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Obsidian —
I don’t pay extra for stuff on HBO. HBO is mostly Gay Central anyway, GLAAD came out with their ratings and 42% of the network’s fictional characters were gay. I never watched the Sopranos either, or Battlestar Galactica, or Eureka, I only recently caught Monk or Burn Notice. I only watched Life in the Second Season. It seems to me that the Wire was pretty liberal evasive, not nailing the cause of Black criminality, which exploded from manageable in 1955 to horrific today: sexual selection by Black women for thugs, ala the creation of British Chavs.
Besides I think I’ve already seen the Wire. It was called Homicide Life on the Street. Same city, same setting, same theme, same writers. It ran on Network TV — HBO is pay TV and is only in ONE THIRD of the nation’s households, despite being available for purchase by nearly all of them.
HBO is all hype and no viewers. The Sopranos at it’s peak pulled in 11 million, a fraction of Fox’s American Idol (which I’ve never watched either) peak of 35 million. By contrast the Mentalist pulls in 20 million or so viewers per episode first season. This is true of female-skewing Syfy as well.
You’re not understanding what happens with AA: as it expands with Government it conflicts with the basic law of politics: Big Dogs Eat First.
“Our Turn Now” is not sustainable with 12.5% of the population, nor with 33% of the population allied with Hispanics, certainly not in the throes of a decade long depression. Read your history: FDR deported every Mexican he could find and prevented Blacks from partaking in the New Deal. Whites are at least 66% of the population. Therefore when political patronage becomes IMPORTANT THEY EAT FIRST.
This is basic math. America is a TWO THIRDS WHITE NATION.
This means either Government is small, and AA is small, and doesn’t affect Whites one way or another, or Government is big, and gives the 2/3rds population first crack, they EAT FIRST. Basic Math. Whites are perfectly capable of tolerating AA when it does not impact them and indeed benefits them as you’ve pointed out with White women. When it’s a net loss, they cut it loose. You’re seeing that start now.
Chic — Like I said to Obsidian — I’ve already seen the Wire. It was called Homicide Life on the Street. Only with better actors, and better writing by Chase.
Forever Knight > Angel.
Homicide > The Wire.
Obsidian — From both sides of my family I’ve had ancestors/relatives fight in the Mexican-American War, Civil War, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. That is not unusual either. So what? We’re not owed anything more than you are. Blacks did very little fighting in the Civil War, it’s a matter of historical record, while the Union and South lost collectively half a million (nearly all White) in a far smaller nation.
Kentucky, West Virginia, and say Montana are nearly all White, rural, and poor. They are generally safe and non-violent. Why? Women there don’t select for thugs. Simple as that.
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bunch of fugly girls
Goiânia plus air ticket promotions are quickly becoming a real threat to many girls in this country
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Obsidian
Absolutely wrong.
that’s not true of any of the fonts of new info or insights about HBD. It’s only true of some of the ragamuffin followers.
You’re desperate to discredit what’s obviously true and gaining web momentum, aren’t you Obsidian?
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doug1
I think GNP Apes was right btw in his estimation of the percentage of the Atlantic slave trade that came to America, his 5-6.5% versus your 13%.
That was my comment which goat girl has yet to respond to.
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Doug,
Yes, I’m quite familiar w/both Sailer and GNXP, and find both sites very interesting to read. I also read Derb from time to time.
However, like I said before, most Black folk will never go on to be pro atheletes or movie actors/comedians. So the real question becomes, how can they inherent, in-bred talents be best applied to the job market?
Insofar as I know, only one person on the HBD side has meaningfully addressed this, and that’s Sailer.
But for the vast majority of HBDers, EVERYTHING hinges on IQ, from Charles Murray on down to Half Sigma. They don’t care really about “charisma” for example.
[editor: this isn’t true about sailer at least. he has written a lot about black charisma and other racial subjects besides IQ differences. personally, while i believe IQ is very important as an explanation for race differences on a variety of metrics, and that IQ has gotten less serious thought from our elite that it should due to a number of reasons that have been discussed eloquently at other blogs and by other commenters, i also can see by simple observation of people around me that the races differ in many other important ways as well that aren’t immediately pertinent as IQ related issues.]
They care about high cognitive functions that make it possible to get high standardized test scores, the end. Look em up and see for yourself. Don’t take my word for it.
And, you see, these guys have a voice. They could potentially make waves. Could even influence policy. Stranger things have happened. So I keep my eye on em.
The HBD community, as its currently defined, is greatly concerned w/IQ, Doug. There is simply no getting around that. Even Sailer and GNXP spend a good bit of time discussing this.
I’m merely responding to the arguments as put forth by these guys, Doug. Its easy to whup up on me, why not turn some of that ire on them for not focusing on the other things as much?
O
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AJ Travis humiliation of PA was his manliest moment in his entire life
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@ doug, I’ll bite. The reason I stay shut and don’t attack other blacks, is because being the minority, it’s not something that you do publicly. Every educated black person knows exactly what I’m talking about. You just don’t humiliate another black person in front of other races. When your numbers are small, you tend to stick together, no matter what; very similar to family, as there just aren’t a lot of educated black people out there.
That being said, I also don’t openly attack other blacks in public because I think that they need to learn a lesson. You just don’t let yourself get baited into talking about something that is beyond your scope, or falsify information. What some educated blacks don’t realize, is that when they do such, they actually make themselves and their race look dumber; thus playing right into the hands of those seeking seeking to humiliate them and prove a point.
I would hope that when a black person who is flat out wrong about something gets humiliated by letting themselves get baited into something that they’re not as knowledgeable about, that they would actually learn to think before they speak and not let their emotions make their decisions for them.
Every time I see someone like Al Sharpton and company make a clearly hypocritical racist statement or talking about something that is beyond their scope, I just cringe because they don’t realize how bad they’re making the whole race look. Educated or not, some blacks need to learn to think before they speak.
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we were just fine with our blacks kept in their rightful positions until Americans screwed everything with civil rights
those 5% of Libby were more than enough to screw ours 30%
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For those unfamilar, this is rehash of Booker T Washington vs. WEB Dubois.
Washington held that building a solid Black middle/working class would translate into economic power making Blacks eventually equal in Jim Crow America. He was attacked as the great conciliator by the Northern group headed by Dubois who advocated the “Talented Tenth” of … basically AA aristocracy (think Obama, Valerie Jarrett, Eric Holder, etc) who would demand political action and patronage.
History suggests that Booker T Washington was correct. Power flows not just from barrels of guns but from widespread wealth.
Certain things work to make a people wealthier. Extracting concessions from the majority population has never been a winning long-term strategy.
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Are you on drugs Gig? Mr. “Beta Revolution” humiliates no one but himself.
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It is because they find their own food or die. Seriously giving people free shit make an area dangerous. How can I go to a place and live where people make 40 dollars a month and not get robbed. I think they still have pride even though poor that they can build a house out of sticks if they want and are able to work to keep there body alive. Also you can respect them even though poor since they are doing something to live. Figure that out and get the nobel prize.
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Comment_Whatever
You seem upset. Here, take one of these pills. You will feel better in no time. After that, you will fall asleep…
Seriously, the issue is not Medical school spots but Residency training spots. Teaching Medical Students is cheap and easy. Training Bd. Certified Specialists is very expensive, always, because lots of patients have to offer their soft, helpless bodies to practice on for the necessary knife experience to be obtained. Completely unavoidable.
The thing I have against HBD folks is this: I have a brother who nearly failed the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd grades. He did not fit in very well, I guess, with the standard good-student paradigms. But somehow or the other he ended up as an internationally respected Physicist worth serious millions of USD.
I wasn’t so different. So, I will always think of throwing a “fuck you” at people who are too eager to put innocent children into boxes. Especially if they are the wrong boxes.
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just to break the HBD trend
guys should SERIOUSLY CUT THEIR FINGERNAILS.
I have always did that on thursdays and maybe again on Sundays. But since I am moving to a different town , I forgot to dso it, got a girl in da club (hip hop night), got her in my home, but when I started massaging her clit with my fingers, the fingernails hurt her
You don´t touch the clit wihtout cutting your fingernails before. it has been many years since the last time I did this stupidity, but now I omnce again realized why men should keep their fingernails as short as possible. to touch girls´clits
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PA- I gave you every chance to man the fuck up and you failed.
You lose.
You impotent insults mean nothing to me, because only someone who is worthy of respect can insult me.
You words are the chattering of a bigot.
Roissy- I’m loathe to argue with the guy who’s name is on the banner, but you’re wrong on this.
[editor: oh fuck off. pa isn’t a waa waa call the waaambulance “racially prejudiced person” for noticing, quite accurately, that a lot, maybe even a majority, of young black men carry themselves with a simian-like gait, all loping and strutting, and they probably do this because they *know* it’s a body posture that’s aggressively intimidating to white people.]
Maybe the majority of Black men you meet on the streets of DC at 2am.
[editor: more precisely, the majority of black men between 14 and 40 in DC. who knows? maybe things are different in detroit.]
Spend some time with average black men (not trying to game their women) and you might feel different.
[editor: i do. i’ve known plenty of black men in my life. this doesn’t change my general observations.]
“[you misspelled “and those who say out loud like him”.]”
Still the minority.
This is the problem when you are trying to constantly outdo other men:
YOU see all other men as your competitors. And maybe black men, who you say have a higher average testosterone level, and higher average natural game, are more of an threat to your lifestyle, than a white or asian man.
[black men have never been a specific threat to my lifestyle, mostly because the nightlife scene is still largely segregated in DC, and because the types of women black guys go for aren’t the ones i target. btw, just to clarify, the evidence shows that blacks have more androgen receptors than whites, not necessarily more serum testosterone.]
Take out the competition, right?
[ultimately, all men are the competition.]
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@ PA
americans do have a problem in getting sarcasm
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You impotent insults mean nothing to me, because only someone who is worthy of respect can insult me
AJ, go to your garden, draw Excalibur from the rock, kill PA with her, find the Graal, and get promoted to level 2 in WoW
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Chic Noir
They are. Rather brilliantly in fact.
Check back in ten years. Or five.
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@PA- he called you out and it hurt huh. You know he was right and that’s why you called him those names. like I wrote introspection is sometimes painful, even on the web.
I’m disapointed in you. I’ve only seen you let it all hang out once (on HS).
@willard-
I will get to your comment after I check your source. There are other people hitting me with more important questions and comments.
I know you want me to bestow upon your clubfoot shingles ridden body, my hypnotic quarter Ethiopian gaze and melodic voice but you must wait your turn.
Roissy maybe even a majority, of young black men carry themselves with a simian-like gait
You know why simian is inflammatory. calling blk people apes, monkeys and the like is just asking for it.
@mu comment 10:02- cosign.
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Thanks, Chic. To make a Game-related comment if I may: I’m really not a fan of “Asshole Game”, because, I like to think of myself as the opposite of that in my life. I’d much rather treat a Lady, like a Lady.
But that don’t mean that I can’t get Raw if I have to, and the need to do so has arisen on occasion. I really don’t like it because I don’t like that side of myself. I have a very bad, violent temper. I’d much rather be gentlemanly and approach life from that angle if I can. Better for errbody involved.
So yea, instead of being an “asshole” I’ve learned how to dea w/people in such a way as to not sully myself too much, if you know what I mean; kill em w/kindness? That’s me. In fact, when it comes to Women, its much more effective than the assholery thing. For the obvious reasons.
But, like I said, I’d much rather things be pleasant and harmonious than not. Besides, I do so enjoy the company of Women.
O
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””””””A.J. Travis”””””””
Shut the fuck up
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Chic — I’ve got the first three seasons of Homicide box sets. Why should I watch the inferior copy? Just as Angel was a crappy and inferior remake of Forever Knight, the Wire is a crappy and inferior remake of Homicide.
Baltimore sucks. Because the Black working class degraded into criminals and Whites fled. The end. Duh. I already saw Homicide.
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Ooh Obsidian plays the smooth gentleman game. Nice.
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Willard
Sorry then Willard.
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You know why simian is inflammatory. calling blk people apes, monkeys and the like is just asking for it.
simian behaviour per se is not inflamatory. it is vibrant!
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who´s the 17 yo mandy and who´s the mandy who thniks jews are on the hard left?
I sincerely hoped they were the same person who also knew how to cook
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Couple guys almost got in fight yesterday because dude was talking about he stacked a 100 g’s.
Talking bout he didn’t believe it.
If they would have fought would have both went home.
Yea life.
I didn’t have the heart to break out the spreadsheet and show em how it was done.
My buddy was looking at me and laughing though.
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I’m the 17 year old.
Mandybeenhereawhile was talking about Jews.
Although, I also believe that most Jews are on the left. Don’t Jews vote largely democrat in American elections?
I don’t know.
I think we both know how to cook. I’m assuming she knows because she’s an older lady (older as in older than me) with children (from what she’s hinted). So she probably can cook.
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Whiskey,
I didn’t know that viewership was a part of your calculus as to whether it was keeping it real about the depressing reality of Black street crime. The shifting of goalposts here is very interesting to see.
As Chic pointed out, The Wire is easily available, for little or nothing. I don’t own HBO services myself, yet I’ve been able to watch it. Just a simple matter if you want to or not, and you definitely do not. Cool.
If I had as much emotionally and philosophically invested I wouldn’t do it either.
As for the great Women in Kentucky, West Virginia and Montana, question:
How come you aint moved there and grabbed one of those wholesome gals and made her your own?
O
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IQ is not everything. Hard work and particularly hard work coupled with team-work coupled with discipline beats brilliant every time.
Examples: Rome vs. Hannibal (most brilliant military campaigner the Ancient world ever saw). Lincoln vs. Lee/Stonewall Jackson and the loathesome but brilliant Nathan Bedford Forrest. Halsey and Nimitz vs. Admiral Yamamoto, a brilliant and charismatic planner. The NY Giants vs. Tom Terrific Brady.
IQ is great. So is raw talent. But a plodder like say, Steelers Coach Mike Tomlin, who like former coach Bill Cowher, knew only one thing but knew it well, can beat the brilliance of say, Kurt Warner.
These are values open to anyone. Proven paths to success. It’s not easy. But any peoples or individuals can pick them up and use them. The most brilliant guy ever can be out-worked, out hustled, out team-worked, and outlasted. The relative high success of Caribbean Black immigrants who embrace hard work and self-discipline and denial suggests this is entirely open to US Blacks as well.
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Gig
Mandy XD is the brainy and precocious 17yo Cuban American, of Miami but moving to NJ probably. That area. Or maybe college at Columbia.
Mandy been here for awhile works in science or engineering, is a Calvinist, and believes Jews are leftists.
Don’t you? They overwhelmingly are. Certainly in the US. Small number of Orthodox who aren’t. Certainly they were historically in Europe and Russia.
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gig
‘You know why simian is inflammatory. calling blk people apes, monkeys and the like is just asking for it.’
simian behaviour per se is not inflamatory. it is vibrant!
It is vibrant only when the simian behavior is Latino/Hispanic.
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””””””””””Whiskey,
These are values open to anyone. Proven paths to success. It’s not easy. But any peoples or individuals can pick them up and use them. The most brilliant guy ever can be out-worked, out hustled, out team-worked, and outlasted. The relative high success of Caribbean Black immigrants who embrace hard work and self-discipline and denial suggests this is entirely open to US Blacks as well.”””””””
That is truth. As far as just be willing to put in the work an you will succeed irregardless of race. As long as you can work 84 hours a week and save loot you can retire in america within a relatively short time. Fact.
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Roissy-“[ultimately, all men are the competition.]”
And yet, some men will come to your blog thinking that you are helping them.
[editor: giving useful advice proven to work and noting that the men you are helping could potentially qualify as competition for girls are not mutually exclusive. this is especially the case when you consider that the odds anyone reading my blog would cockblock me for the same girl are infinitesimally small.]
This is why I call it “The Roissy bait and switch.”
Perhaps it is my higher average Beta intelligence, but I don’t trust the ‘advice’ of someone who freely admits that he is competing against me.
[think carefully about this. i’d be more likely to trust the advice of such a candid man than the advice from a man dressing up his message in feelgood language.]
Perhaps I could direct your attention to the scene in ‘A Beautiful Mind” where Dr. Nash explains to his other Beta friends that competing against each other for the romantic interest of one woman will cock-block them all, where as cooperating will get them all laid.
[99% of the time your wingmen will be valuable assets. but woe be the wingman who gets between you and that one girl you’ve been pining after for years.]
Sooner or later, the intelligent guys who read this blog will realize that Roissy will not cooperate, even if it would help all men.
[my cooperation is through my writing. in real life, i help my wingmen because they are friends, and because there are enough women to go around in this city.]
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whiskey
Examples: Rome vs. Hannibal (most brilliant military campaigner the Ancient world ever saw).
Scipio was better.
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I think we both know how to cook
kasslers or falafels?
How come you aint moved there and grabbed one of those wholesome gals and made her your own?.
ouch!
but still hates the vast majority
FemX is ugly and ultra-hypergamous, thus her frustration which she hides as “lesbianism”. sex involves penis in some hole. lesbianism is biologically prevented from being sex. lesbians are freaks. Sailer has written extensively about it
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Chic
But kiss about that Chic.
You may have a fair bit of racial solidarity in you (as the great majority of born in America blacks do) but you don’t have much racial animus, that I have felt. So kudos and appreciation.
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@willard
as far as the nerdiest girl will know, Scipio lost the battle to Hannibal
Russel Crowe personally led Hannibal´s army in the destruction of Scipio´s, if you get what I mean
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Obsidian — My rule is, if it’s on free TV (or basic cable I get) I’ll watch it. Otherwise I won’t.
You think the Wire shows that Network TV is willing to tackle the depressing reality of Black Crime. I say it’s not, because HBO is not network TV, most people (two thirds) don’t bother to get it even though it’s available, and most network TV is of the “noble victim, evil White guy profiler” ala Southland, which is pathetic in it’s refusal to let Black guys be villains.
That’s hardly moving goal-posts. You take one pay-cable boutique series (which basically repeats Homicide Life on the Street) and make it the rule.
Law and Order (after the disastrous first two seasons) never shows the reality of crime: nearly all Black and Hispanic. Neither do their brethren, nor the CSIen, nor NUMB3RS, nor the Mentalist, nor any of that.
The reason I don’t move to Kentucky or Montana or Wyoming or Idaho is: I don’t want to trade the cash for poverty. Simple as that. There’s plenty wrong with those places. They are poor because the people there refuse to invest in education and educational institutions. Kentucky for example is blessed with great limestone water, and should be a global exporter of high quality (Jack Daniels ain’t it) Bourbon. With tours of distilleries, local colleges teaching scientific distilling, the like. But that would require greater Future Time orientation than people there possess, and greater cooperation too.
There’s no particular reason Kentucky is not as wealthy and globally oriented as say, Bordeaux or Champagne. Other than the short-sighted nature of the people who live there. It is for the most part, a physically beautiful place.
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Obsidian
And two, you done got this thing all twisted: see, there’s *alot* of White folks out there, who really like to see articulate Brothas like Obama.
Yes, especially when the so called “brothas” have NO black American ancestry, are born of a White mother and are raised and schooled by White folks.
No doubt that gives him a major competitive advantage over typical niggahs in the evaluations of most White Americans.
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Hold the presses. Scipio Africanus lost the battle of Zama?
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yep
Russel Crowe defeated him. Commodus asked your same question
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@gig:
“kasslers or falafels?”
No. Ropa vieja and chicken fricassee.
Take it or leave it. 😛
“FemX is ugly and ultra-hypergamous, thus her frustration which she hides as “lesbianism”. sex involves penis in some hole. lesbianism is biologically prevented from being sex. lesbians are freaks. Sailer has written extensively about it”
Um.
So gay buttsex is okay?
I think you boys are angry because some girls don’t want to sleep with you.
ha, I kid.
Seriously though, I don’t think it takes that much to be somewhat disgusted by man parts. Don’t take it personally, anyone, or get offended. I’m just saying.
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I will explain slowy, then I go to bed
I just read wiki´s article on zama. My position is that if you know about Zama, you are either sacrificing your party time or your work time. it is the second in my case, since I should have gone to bed by now instead of reading about roman battles
girls, being girlish as they are, will never ever under any circusntance know anything about some bizarre event as the battle of zama, besides that it was fought in the movie Gladiator, the romans were supposed to win, but Russell Crowe defeated them
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gays can have sex, since they are capable of penetration, though I´d enjoy myself seing them burned at the stake
ropa vieja?? ” old clothes?? this is cuban cuisine after Castro?
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OK I get you.
I had just re-read an account of the Punic Wars. Interesting reading. But that’s just me.
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@gig:
heh, unfortunately Cubans don’t really get to eat red meat anymore. They’re lucky if they get chicken.
Ropa vieja also called carne mechada in Venezuela.
Really good stuff.
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Mandy XD:
Actually that makes me wonder about the strength of you hetero sexuality or whether you’re closet perhaps.
How much sexual heat for cock can underlie a statement like that?
Are you asexual? Just want cuddles?
Pretty off putting Mandy.
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if I were undwer threat of being sexually assaulted by femX, I would stop cutting my nails immediately
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on July 27, 2009 at 10:35 pm Rum
Comment_Whatever
”””””””Rum,
You seem upset. Here, take one of these pills. You will feel better in no time. After that, you will fall asleep…
Seriously, the issue is not Medical school spots but Residency training spots. Teaching Medical Students is cheap and easy. Training Bd. Certified Specialists is very expensive, always, because lots of patients have to offer their soft, helpless bodies to practice on for the necessary knife experience to be obtained. Completely unavoidable.
The thing I have against HBD folks is this: I have a brother who nearly failed the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd grades. He did not fit in very well, I guess, with the standard good-student paradigms. But somehow or the other he ended up as an internationally respected Physicist worth serious millions of USD.
I wasn’t so different. So, I will always think of throwing a “fuck you” at people who are too eager to put innocent children into boxes. Especially if they are the wrong boxes.””””””’
Do you think it was the pain that helped you two actually do it?
Catalyst wise.
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@doug1:
“Actually that makes me wonder about the strength of you hetero sexuality or whether you’re closet perhaps.”
I can’t be closet if I’m definitely attracted to men. Yes, women are pretty, but I could never enter a relationship with one.
“How much sexual heat for cock can underlie a statement like that?
Are you asexual? Just want cuddles?
Pretty off putting Mandy.”
I’d rather not talk about this on here, but I’m definitely not asexual. And it’s usually hard to just stop at cuddles, next thing you know you’re kissing and hands are going places…
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Roissy-
You use terms like “proven” and “candid”, but what you offer here on this blog is neither.
Or more correctly, we the readers, have no way of knowing.
Unless you give up your secrecy and let us cross-examine you, we will never be able to know if what you sell here is solid gold or snake oil.
Only a fully informed man can make an intelligent decision to choose your lifestyle or pursue a traditional life (marriage, kids.)
As it stands, it is my contention that most men want the latter, and your ‘advice’ (true or not) will not help them achieve it.
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Whiskey:
Last I checked, Jack Daniels hails from Tennessee. I even toured the distillery in Lynchburg. Perhaps you were thinking of Jim Beam?
By the way, the Jack Daniels tour guide was the only native English speaker I ever heard whose accent I could not understand most of. Other than that and no tasting (not even selling since it was on a Sunday), they had great tours, and I would think they do in Kentucky too, though I agree Jim Beam doesn’t taste so good. I have lived six years just south of the border to Kentucky and think it is a great area. Wages may be low but so is cost of living and the women are indeed relatively wholesome.
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Rum said:
Well, I’m glad to see you are capable of making the necessary mental twists to justify the AMA’s behavior.
Very American.
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Obese-dian,
You coward. You didn’t answer the question. You half-answered i, by coping out with :
As for McCain’s vote totals among Blacks, that answer is easy, virtually none. Why? Well, several reasons, but the most important was that Blck folks wanted to support one of their own. Last time I heard, that wasn’t against the law.
I want the percentages, on BOTH ends – what % of whites voted for Obama and what % of blacks voted for McCain.
The instructions are ultra-clear. So quit hiding and be a man and provide the percentages. It will only take a minute or two of Googling.
I could find the answer myself, but I want you to post the percentages. You and I both know why you are extremely terrified of doing this, even you you commited to do it.
Now man up and provide the percentages.
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chic
BS!!!!!!!
If you want to learn something you will learn it. I went to a mostly minority high school in South Florida. The 49th worst state for public schools. One year we had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the state. I didn’t take Calculus in high school.
Most education money went to keeping the illiterate thugs off the street until they were old enough to go to jail. Very little went to the college bound courses.
In middle school, a black girl kicked me form behind (due a bad call on the volly ball court that went my way) so that I fell and all her friends stood and laughed when I looked up in confused. Everyone used to say “You never fight just one black girl, you fight them all.” I knew they would all pounce if I dared make a move.
When I went to the guidance counselor to tell what happened I was told in no uncertain terms to SHUT MY MOUTH. Nobody wanted to deal with the anger of the black community especially if it was only to protest a little white trash girl. guess I oppressed her.
Someone in the Clinton administration said that in America, to avoid poverty you must do 4 things: 1. graduate high school. 2. wait until marriage to have kidsa ndawait until after 20 to get married 3. take any job and do it well 4. stay out of jail. This is apparently too much to ask at least 50% of black America.
Save the victimology and “its not black peoples fault!” BS for someone who doesn’t know the truth.
I would love nothing more than for black people to be at the same economic level as white people. Too bad most blacks just don’t feel the same way.
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@Whiskey
I thought that Forever Knight was a far better show than Angel. The Buffy/Angel series were completely derivative of Forever Knight. I have seen all the seasons of Homicide but thought the first one was the best. I rarely watch tv anymore but will try to catch the Wire. Dark, depressing, and violent is exactly what I enjoy in my lite entertainment.
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Comment _Whatever
I am indeed very American. My ancestors from all 4 quadrants of my families of origin were all here well before the Revolution.
Poverty sucks in America and we have been well beyond middle-class since A. Lincoln was President.
Your point is???
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Probably thinking of Jim Beam. American Bourban save Knob Creek and Woodford Reserve is undrinkable by itself, neat.
FWIW, Farrakhan has weighed in on Gates and Michael Jackson:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1686329,CST-NWS-farr27.article
Highlights:
1. There was a conspiracy to “get” Michael Jackson by “the Jooooosssss!!!!!!” and the Government.
2. Michael Jackson was a “barrier breaker” [because nothing brings people together like molesting little boys.]
3. Obama “let his Black out” wrt Gates
There you have it. One of the brothers. Which means he’s not my President. Farrakhan should know. He and Obama are buddies and neighbors and all. Two peas in a pod.
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mandy been here a while
I hear you.
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Re: MJ
Someone was giving him propofol to sleep. That is so far beyond crazy, it stuns the mind. Its main use outside of a hospital OR is suicide. Just sayin…
Propofol is not a sleep-aid. It is what is given so that you can cut out someones appendix without them even twitching.
Total raving madness….
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Someone in the Clinton administration said that in America, to avoid poverty you must do 4 things: 1. graduate high school. 2. wait until marriage to have kidsa ndawait until after 20 to get married 3. take any job and do it well 4. stay out of jail. This is apparently too much to ask at least 50% of black America.
Totally. America is the easiest country in the world in which to avoid poverty, particularly for nonwhites. Millions of Mexicans come here at great personal risk, just to do rigorous physical labor at minimum wage.
If a non-handicapped person is poor in America, that person really sucks. Think of how poorly they would fare elsewhere.
The thing is, blacks contribute disproportionately to virtually all the problems in America. From crime to illegitimate childbirth to AIDS to poverty to illiteracy to obesity, the 12% of Americans who are black account for 40% of all of the above.
The 88% who are not black just account for 60% of the above.
Virtually all the ‘problems’ in America are caused by blacks. We are carrying an African dictatorship of 38 million people (about the size of Kenya or Uganda) within our borders, with all the dysfunction that entails.
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Obsidian:
From my reading of Murray, he seems more nuanced than that. I recall a footnote in “The Inequality Taboo” from 2005 that made great sense to me at the time and still sort of does, even with the dismal stats on black crime and other dysfunction. Yes, the article is about IQ, but he acknowledges that IQ is not all that matters. In the text, he says:
Then the footnote:
Even if you could change IQ, I doubt you could change just IQ. There is bound to be a downside as well.
So what is the solution? Insofar as blacks have functioned relatively well in the past, clearly they can again. All you have to do is recreate similar social conditions, minus the Jim Crow or other oppression. No obsession with IQ needed and not any affirmative action, either. Based on what I read on this blog, reinstituting monogamy would go a long way. If Whiskey is right about sexual selection for thugs being the root of the problem.
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Whiskey,
I’ll tell you like I told Doug-please tell the HBDer crowd, that “IQ ain’t everything”. To them, it is. And I find it deeply interesting that the only time when these counter arguments come outta the woodwork, is when someone from the despised “NAM” camp comes along and openly questions said HBDers. Before that, no one could be heard seriously challenging them. Which is yet another reason why voices like mine need to be in venues like these.
O
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Whiskey,
I find it interesting that you can so confidently make a comparison to a show you’ve seen (Homicide) to one you’ve never seen (The Wire). As one who’s seen both, I can tell you w/the utmost confidence, that there is NO comparison. David Simon himself has said that network tv doesn’t allow for the deep exploration of issues that a major cable brand like HBO does.
Secondly, every person I have talked to about The Wire was able to see it. That tells me that they either have HBO, caught it on BET, bought the dvds, or did like I did, and had a buddy burn off dvds for him/her to watch-something. You are the ONLY person to date, to give me the “if it ain’t on network tv it don’t exist” excuse.
Nor does such a caveat appear on your blog, last time I checked. And, like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Gilmore Girls, two shows that didn’t rate that high in viewers either, nor did either of them appear on tv’s “Big Three” networks, you didn’t seem to have any problem at all giving each extensive treatments on the social impact of these shows. You didn’t have any problem doing this, because of a very simple reason: they fit the narrative you want to present to your readers; they make the case for your point of view.
The Wire, does not. It’s really as simple as that.
Same deal w/your rationale as for why you can’t get off yout ass, stop bitching, and get yourself a quality Woman, whom by yor own words exists in places like Montana, West Virginia, and Kentucky. No one said you had to stay there. The question was why you couldn’t go there and get a girl. Your response, while it sounded good, was in fact BS, Whiskey, and you know it.
Which brings us back to an earlier question: if Women on the whole out there where you live on the Left Coast are so banal, so vacuous, so this and so that-WHY are you or any reasonable Man spending ANY time trying to get in their pants?
The answer, if one wants to apply a Sherlock Holmesian approach, is simple-you, like Roissy, and many other guys here, want the “hot” chicks too. Its just you don’t have the chops to make them want you. Hence the sour graping.
Since it seems that I’ve had to play the role of being the bearer of bad news of late, I might as well disabuse you of a few other things, too Whiskey: that being a nice guy w/a decent or even great job, is not enough to score today’s hot chick. You’re about a generation or so late on that note. Todays Woman, whether she be on the Left Coast or in Coal Mining Country, nowadays can choose, w/little if any censure ore rebuke, who really makes her wet. And that means that they’ll be quite a few guys left standing when the music stops with their dick in their hands. No, its not fair, anymore than back in the day when a Woman had to get with a guy she really didn’t want because she had little other choice. But then, life is so often brutally unfair.
The reason why you’re having so much trouble w/the Women out there in Sunny California Whiskey, ain’t because of them or the system, but you. You are the X-Factor, the one constant in it all. And as long as you do the same kinds of Zohan-like pretzel twisting to avoid unpleasant facts of life, like you do w/The Wire, you will always be tormented by how Women always seem to choose guys who are in essence, beneath you. It can make a Man deeply bitter. And that will most definitely make Women, even the stankiest among them, RUN.
Hmm.
The Obsidian
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Apeman,
The problem in your argument is, that at least 50% of African Americans are NOT dysfunctional. So why not talk about that? Why all the focus on only one half, supposedly, of a group of people? Now, keep in mind here, I’m not saying don’t pay any attention to the problems at all, just merely asking why it is that its all you seem to focus on?
And as Joe and Chic have already stated, what am I supposed to do about the problematic half? Is it my responsibility to “fix it/them”? If so, why? And why is it Whites don’t seem to have the same burning desire to go and “fix” places like Kentucky and West Virginia (see Whiskey’s recent comments)? Why only the focus on Black folks in this regard?
As for the Obama/McCain vote totals among African Americans, like you said, you can easily look em up, so I’ll let you do just that. Again: it ain’t against the law to support one of your own, nor have Black folk been the first in America to do so. The. End.
O
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Whiskey,
Again, w/all due respect, if you’re going to make a meaningful comparison of Homicide to The Wire, it would behoove you to at the least, read the Wikipedia entry on the latter.
David Simon, the creator and lead writer of The Wire, said that the show was more than merely a gritty crime drama, that it was the story of the American City at the dawn of the 21st Century. To this end, Simon focused each season of The Wire on the following facets of inner city life:
Season One dealt with the Drugs Trade, and the efforts on the part of the beleagured Baltimore Police Dept to combat it.
Season Three deal w/city gov’t.
Season Four dealt w/the schools.
And Season Five dealt w/the press.
But Season Two, took up the fate of the WHITE Working Class, focusing on the fictional Stevedores Union, on the docks. The entire season focuses on this Whiskey, and its hard *not* to feel sorry for what honest Working class Whites have to deal with, being left behind by automation, outsourcing and the like. They didn’t do anything to deserve that anymore than the Black folk whom you claim simply chose to stop being hardworking folk and start being drug dealers and gangbangers.
Question for you, Whiskey: does any of the seasons of Homicide deal w/such themes?
O
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”
he took the wind out of my sails? it is typical that when minorities and women see a white person or a man pull their punches they take it as weakness.
chic, the only thing that softened me up re: obs at all was the (as usual, late on my part) observation that my strident tone was seeming to alienate the specific denizens of this board i had hoped would have a good opinion of me.
obs’s nearly hysterical reaction to my criticism of his writing style really knocked me for a loop, i am truly cowed now. though obs writing since then has been crystal clear, more content filled and a much better read 🙂
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At least 50% of blacks are not dysfunctional? Not so sure. If you mean “not in jail” maybe, but even then that’s population-dependent. Since Obsidian is so fond of The Wire and the related works of David Simon, worth pointing out that in Baltimore over 55% of black men 18-35 are in prison, on parole, or have warrants on them.
About 70% of black children (and the figure keeps rising) are born outside of marriage, which would NOT have been considered “functional” by Americans – white or black – a couple generations back.
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GNP- You tried to couch your prejudice in statistics, but is shines through like a laser.
“The 88% who are not black just account for 60% of the above.”
JUST 60%???
60% is a hell of a lot bigger than 40% dumb-ass. So the large majority of these problems are perpetrated by NON-BLACKS!
Congratulations, you just dis-proved you own point.
“Virtually all the ‘problems’ in America are caused by blacks.”
By your logic, and using YOUR stats, you would have to say that those problems are created by NON-black people (40% vs. 60%)
Clearly math and probability ain’t your strong suits.
“We are carrying an African dictatorship of 38 million people (about the size of Kenya or Uganda) within our borders, with all the dysfunction that entails.”
And what is your ultimate solution to the black problem, Grand Wizard? Deport them all. Jail them all? Kill them all?
Any valid points you had, are covered by the avalanche of your bullshit.
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AJ,
Thank you for pointing out something that should be quite obvious by now.
If Black folk are such a drain on society, why aren’t intrepid folk such as Apeman, Dana, etc et al, aren’t openly advocating for a wholesale removal of them? Shouldn’t they be lobbying their Congressmen and Senators along these lines?
Esquire, yes I am most certainly a fan of The Wire, and no doubt about it, the problems that plague Baltimore are formidable.
But the question, one among many for me at least, becomes, where did this come from? Were Black Baltimoreans always this way-or did something or better yet, a series of somethings, happen to make it possible to bring the dysfunction that The Wire captures so well into being? And why hasn’t it happened to ALL Black folk down there, and this is a very important question if you’re an HBDer. Even The Wire depicts “good” Black folk, like Daniels, or Bunk Moreland-why didn’t they wind up like Avon Barksdale or Wee Bey Brice? They were born and raised in B’More too.
Simon argued that one of the reasons why The Wire never was a huge “popular” hit among viewers was because he chose to explore deep sociological questions, that invariably make the viewer feel very uncomfortable to watch. That, plus the fact that the show was unrelenting in showing the day to day grind of its denizens, the neverending “game” and that it focused on African Americans primarily, and one can see why the very crowd Whiskey laments is the downfall of modern day tv-largely SWPL-influenced White Women-wouldn’t be all that interested in something as unflinchingly real as The Wire.
Of course, as is often the case w/our Man Whiskey, he gets it half right-the other piece to this, is that there ain’t too many White Men who are interested in viewing The Wire either, even though the show depicts the depressing reality of Black street crime episode after episode.
Hmm.
O
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Dana,
I have asked you exactly what you find unclear in my writing, and you have yet to respond. I ask you specifically because to date, only you have made it a point to say that I am unclear in my writing. You’ve made this point several times over the course of our exchanges, and most recently you suggested that it might be due to my writing style. Though again, everyone else seems to be able to follow the bouncing ball aright.
As for you’re “not pulling any punches”, please. You’re not doing anything any mildly anti-Black person does. I’m all for honest discussions, in fact I think we as a group of people should have more of them. My problem w/you on that score is your inability and/or refusal to make distinctions between and among Black folk, to say nothing of your tendency, which a number of Whites have already done here, to attempt to guilt Blacks into answering for the actions of bad acting Black folk. Such thought patterns are nonsensical and decidedly un-American. Thomas Sowell would never go for such a thing, why would you?
I’m just sayin.
Holla back
O
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AJ and Obsidian,
So, in your minds, there is no middle ground between the current status quo (affirmative action) and “deport / jail / kill them all”? Gimme a break.
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obs you are being silly
i clearly make distinctions between types of black people, having grown up in philly. i know full well blacks in wyncote and overbrook farms are a totally different class than those at 22nd and diamond. the point i made a long time ago was that no matter WHAT class blacks belong to they have a distinct culture that keeps them separated permanently from the white majority. and the point i made when i said that was that i believe it’s that distinct culture that keeps blacks feeling “alienated” or “excluded”–which was our original argument. i specifically brought up the example of my OWN upbringing in what i realized upon joining the goyishe world at large was an alien culture that kept me excluded from the majority.
truth is, our entire argument has stemmed from you NOT reading what i say–you have only read what you want me to be saying and then reacted to that, from the outset. my black neighbors in overbrook were my first and most lasting impression of black people. he was a big domineering father-knows-best ex cop who ran his home like a little platoon–he had a feminine doting stay at home wife and two children who are the big success story of our little clutch of kids who played together–the daughter went to graduate school for chinese and the son has a phd in archeology i think at this point.
its folks like THEM i think are hurt by the dominance of the black underclass in the media and culture. and by AA, and by the racial grievance industry and it’s the black people like THEM i care about. blacks are as american as apple pie–hell, i’m 1st generation on my mother’s side, blacks have been here since the founding and before.
it’s my unshakeable opinion that until the day NONunderclass blacks develop the same sense of scorn and revulsion towards their underclass whites feel towards trailer trash, that underclass will doom you to permanent suspicion and drag you down. this underclass was created out of whole cloth by government long after slavery and at the end, not the beginning of jim crow–its the legacy of a vicious socialist experiment being ruthlessly perpetrated on the black people. why do you all cry about the tuskeegee experiment and don’t give a rat’s ass about the third world socialist nightmare the government has caused lower class blacks to live in as an experiment?
i don’t WANT a huge class of unhappy oppressed feeling blacks in the US, the US is suffering from this and so are the blacks themselves. you and i just have different opinions on how to stop this phenomenon.
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“If Black folk are such a drain on society, why aren’t intrepid folk such as Apeman, Dana, etc et al, aren’t openly advocating for a wholesale removal of them? Shouldn’t they be lobbying their Congressmen and Senators along these lines?”
no one can be a “drain on society” without SOCIALISM. i oppose SOCIALISM–not whatever particular ethne overrepresents itself in feeding from the trough in any given country. humans beings take the path of least resistance and i in no way blame the PEOPLE who choose the government teat for their choice but the GOVERNMENT for providing it.
whenever someone agitates against socialism in the US it is taken as a form of covert racism–which is a bizarre backhanded admission that blacks are overrepresented at the government trough. get this through your head, i don’t want to abolish the blacks, i want to abolish the TROUGH. the underclass is being caused by the government–repeal of those causes would reduce the ranks of the underclass to manageable if barely extant levels over time. no deportation, no holocaust–just a gentle squeezing off as the shut-off valve of assistance is turned.
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Wow, talk about false arguments! Arguing for deportation? Sure, that’s a pragmatic approach.
The Wire isn’t reality – FYI. I’m an attorney and a former federal agent, and I happen to know Baltimore rather well. Simon’s depiction is an exaggerated version of reality, it’s not a documentary. Simon is a very gifted but equally jaded individual – note well.
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Esquire-“Wow, talk about false arguments! Arguing for deportation? Sure, that’s a pragmatic approach.”
Don’t mock so fast.
Are you so sure that GNP/PA wouldn’t advocate deportation?
I’m not.
Tarl-“So, in your minds, there is no middle ground between the current status quo (affirmative action) and “deport / jail / kill them all”? Gimme a break.”
There is for me:
Eliminate AA, and all other government charity programs. Remove all ‘How would you describe your race’ questions from all government forms. Remove all biased programs (Black Studies/Women’s Studies/Gay/Lesbian Studies) from all Schools, remove tax-exempt status from all ‘churches’ that preach racial separation/supremacy, remove legal preferences for women in divorce/child custody cases, mandatory paternity testing at birth.
I’m curious to know what PA/GNP think.
And their silence is speaking volumes.
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Esquire, hold up-first you make the point that a clear majority of B’More’s Black Men aged 18-35 are either in jail, on parole or have warrants on them; The Wire shows this, does it not? If so, then how can it not be comporting w/reality, as you’ve stated it above?
And yup, Simon is not only jaded, he’s angry, and has openly said as much. He even says that The Wire is “an angry show” that deliberately eschews the contrivances that so many network shows indulge in, which explains the “depressing” nature of the series. In that regard then, and in following in the tradition of Mark Twain, The Wire is an Angry Letter, written to the powers that be.
Dana, several things.
First it seems that we finally agree that African Americans are indeed Americans, something which you’ve attempted to argue otherwise and which you briefly recap above. African Americans have a distinctive culture that incorporates elements of native African culture, but is itself a uniquely American creation, befitting our penchant for innovation and even rebellion. I personally am always amused by how so many Whites laud our rebellious, thinking outside the box nature as Americans, but then turnaround and demand that African Americans tow the line. Hmm.
Two, I think you might not know African Americans as well as you may believe. Class divisions run just as deep in Black America as anywhere else in the country, and are well written about. You might want to start w/Dyson’s book on Bill Cosby for starters. He notes quite well the villification upper class Blacks visit on their lower tier brethren, and is certainly nothing new.
That aside, still, as Thomas Sowell would say, the things lower class Blacks do or don’t do, should have no bearing whatsoever on any other Black, regardless of their station, in a Land where Individual Rights, Liberty and Merit are the rule od the day-right?
There are many people around 22nd & Diamond, and while I know this may be hard fo you to believe, they all aint out murdering each other, or otherwise engaging in overt dysfunctional behavior. Some are quite good people, who’s only crime was that they were born into a situation that is quite difficult to get out of-trust me, most Black folk do not living in the hood, and as soon as the chance presents themselves, they leave. You will be hardpressed to find more pro-Police folk in such places, because they live the day to day realities of being a bullet away from grave injury or certain death. For them it aint an arid academic discussion or an emotive, yet once removed rant.
And if I may, you still have not specifically laidout in what way I have not been clear in my writing to you. What you’ve done is recount how our exchanges started, and where and how we staked out our respective positions, which is helpful for providing context. But you haven’t laidout how and in what way I wasn’t being clear in what I wrote. I’d like to see evidence of some of this, please, since you have been so keen to point this out several times already.
Thanks.
O
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Esquire, hold up-first you make the point that a clear majority of B’More’s Black Men aged 18-35 are either in jail, on parole or have warrants on them; The Wire shows this, does it not? If so, then how can it not be comporting w/reality, as you’ve stated it above?
And yup, Simon is not only jaded, he’s angry, and has openly said as much. He even says that The Wire is “an angry show” that deliberately eschews the contrivances that so many network shows indulge in, which explains the “depressing” nature of the series. In that regard then, and in following in the tradition of Mark Twain, The Wire is an Angry Letter, written to the powers that be.
Dana, several things.
First it seems that we finally agree that African Americans are indeed Americans, something which you’ve attempted to argue otherwise and which you briefly recap above. African Americans have a distinctive culture that incorporates elements of native African culture, but is itself a uniquely American creation, befitting our penchant for innovation and even rebellion. I personally am always amused by how so many Whites laud our rebellious, thinking outside the box nature as Americans, but then turnaround and demand that African Americans tow the line. Hmm.
Two, I think you might not know African Americans as well as you may believe. Class divisions run just as deep in Black America as anywhere else in the country, and are well written about. You might want to start w/Dyson’s book on Bill Cosby for starters. He notes quite well the villification upper class Blacks visit on their lower tier brethren, and is certainly nothing new.
That aside, still, as Thomas Sowell would say, the things lower class Blacks do or don’t do, should have no bearing whatsoever on any other Black, regardless of their station, in a Land where Individual Rights, Liberty and Merit are the rule od the day-right?
There are many people around 22nd & Diamond, and while I know this may be hard fo you to believe, they all aint out murdering each other, or otherwise engaging in overt dysfunctional behavior. Some are quite good people, who’s only crime was that they were born into a situation that is quite difficult to get out of-trust me, most Black folk do not living in the hood, and as soon as the chance presents themselves, they leave. You will be hardpressed to find more pro-Police folk in such places, because they live the day to day realities of being a bullet away from grave injury or certain death. For them it aint an arid academic discussion or an emotive, yet once removed rant.
As for your Welfare/Socialism-is-the-culprit remarks wrt some Blacks, I would remind you that Welfare Reform was passed, by both sides of Congress, a little over a decade ago, and was deemed a success by all sides. True, the Great Society played a big role in things, but so too did the death of manufacturing and the general blue collar sector, among a great many other things. Again, The Wire attempts to explore these issues, and like you, not many people have the stomach to examine the complexities these issues entail; quick fixes, easy targets and cheap sloganeering feel better, are easier to do and are just cheaper, to the dirty work The Wire depicts. And this is on both sides of the racial aisle, btw.
And if I may, you still have not specifically laidout in what way I have not been clear in my writing to you. What you’ve done is recount how our exchanges started, and where and how we staked out our respective positions, which is helpful for providing context. But you haven’t laidout how and in what way I wasn’t being clear in what I wrote. I’d like to see evidence of some of this, please, since you have been so keen to point this out several times already.
Thanks.
O
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Also Dana,
I think it is you, w/all due respect, who may not be clear here. Because I do not recall ever bringing up the Tuskeegee Experiment in our exchanges, etc. Your tossing that in from outta left field is kinda bizzarre.
And going back to the “exclusion” argument, I think you misunderstand. During the Civil Rights Movement, Black people resembled Whites in many ways-they straightened their hair like Whites, dressed like Whites, had the same names as Whites, had the same God as Whites-and were still forced to use seperate and vastly unequal accomodations, schools, libraries, lunch counters and the like. Black folks loved baseball just as much as Whites, but they couldn’t play on the Yankees or the Phillies or the Red Sox until Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier. Black folks wanted to fight against Tojo and the Nazis just as much as Whites but were still segregated in the barracks and in the mess hall, to name only a few of the daily indiginities Blacks had to face while fighting in the name of freedom. Black folks loved to Lindy-Hop too, but that fact didn’t help them from being segregated into all-Black dancehalls and the like.
In every way, as Wynton Marsalis often points out, African Americans ARE American. Its just we, like every other group who has found their way to these shores, have own own distinctive take, spin and expression of our Americaness, and that may prove to be unsettling to some people. That’s too bad, because in so many ways, the African American Experience, is indeed THE American Experience.
O
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Dana–
If there were no such things as crime or charity that would be true.
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…. or lawsuits.
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Obsidian
And going back to the “exclusion” argument, I think you misunderstand. During the Civil Rights Movement, Black people resembled Whites in many ways-they straightened their hair like Whites, dressed like Whites, had the same names as Whites, had the same God as Whites-and were still forced to use seperate and vastly unequal accomodations, schools, libraries, lunch counters and the like.
Freedom in the fullest sense means the freedom to exclude. The freedom of association includes the freedom to NOT associate. If that forces blacks back onto their own people then ultimately that should be their problem.
Black folks loved baseball just as much as Whites, but they couldn’t play on the Yankees or the Phillies or the Red Sox until Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier.
Robinson didn’t “break the color barrier”. Robinson was used by Branch Rickey to break the Negro leagues and destroy an economic competitor to the White major leagues.
The fact that so many blacks and their White “liberal” allies can’t understand that says a lot about black social and economic failure in this country.
Black folks wanted to fight against Tojo and the Nazis just as much as Whites but were still segregated in the barracks and in the mess hall, to name only a few of the daily indiginities Blacks had to face while fighting in the name of freedom.
Again whose freedom?
Black folks loved to Lindy-Hop too, but that fact didn’t help them from being segregated into all-Black dancehalls and the like.
In other words be forced to confront their own people. Segregation forces blacks to be with the inferior black race and to be excluded from greater interaction with the superior White race. This is the basis for black bitterness.
This mentality is referenced when Malcolm X speaks of negroes thinking the White man’s ice is colder and the White man’s sugar being sweeter.
That’s too bad, because in so many ways, the African American Experience, is indeed THE American Experience.
No it is not.
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Willard Libby-
“Segregation forces blacks to be with the inferior black race and to be excluded from greater interaction with the superior White race.”
Way to go asshole.
Don’t you have crosses to burn?
The fact that bigoted fuckups like YOU don’t understand that spouting shit like this only pours gasoline on the fire says a lot about YOU.
Willard Libby’s Steps to Happiness:
Step #1- Put a pistol in his mouth.
Step #2- Pull the trigger.
Cause the world would be a better place by far, without you in it.
Any intelligent points you THOUGHT you were making were lost when you pulled on your white hood.
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Willard Libby –
Libby, stop outing yourself as an insecure tard.
If you really think the black experience is not a major part of the American experience, you really are the modern racial equivalent of a flat earther.
Jazz? Rock and Roll? Swing? Motown? Michael Jackson, biggest international celeb world ever produced? Blues, modern professional sports, Hank Aaron the longtime holder of major baseball records? Elvis Presley, whose music owes as much to black roots as it does to white southern? Hip-hop music? Slavery? Sharecroppers, Jim Crow, gospel music, Ku Klux Klan (without blacks to hate they’d never have come about and been so promininent), none of that is significant part of the American experience? The Civil War, which was fought because of blacks? Is that insignificant? How about the first talkie movie, The Jazz Singer with Al Jolson? Even though he was a white guy in blackface, his act and that movie never would have been what it was without the black experience.
You seem so desperate to avoid admitting anything that might be remotely interpreted as a positive toward blacks that you end up denying the most basic facts and making the STUPIDEST assertions.
I understand why you’re like this as you have no friends or social clique by your own admission and desperately need to belong to something that has no choice but to accept you as a member (like the race you were born into), and I feel for you, honestly. But unclench. Admitting black history is part of American history suddenly won’t make whites (and yourself by association) some losers in the giant race war of your imagination.
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I wouldn’t even mind the racism if he could rein it in enough to make logical points. But the hysterical racism seems to be pushing him to creationist levels of obvious fact denial.
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Avowed Racist Willard Libby-
“Freedom in the fullest sense means the freedom to exclude. The freedom of association includes the freedom to NOT associate. If that forces blacks back onto their own people then ultimately that should be their problem… This is the basis for black bitterness.”
A lot of black people are overly sensitive to racial issues.
People like YOU are the reason.
You and Henry Louis Gates Jr. are the two sides of the same fucked-up coin.
He sees a racist behind every tree and you are a racist behind a tree of ‘respectability.’
Neither of you represent a majority, that’s why slavery and segregation are against the law, and also why white people are not forced to pay reparations.
I only hope the rational, black and white majority can continue to keep dipshits like you and him at bay.
YOU absolutely have the right to be racist.
But the Government does not.
Like it or not, the US Constitution forbids your racist desires from becoming law.
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A.J. Travis
Willard Libby’s Steps to Happiness:
Step #1- Put a pistol in his mouth.
Step #2- Pull the trigger.
Cause the world would be a better place by far, without you in it.
A.J., I think your suggestion is something YOU should consider.
You are an admitted Beta who was rejected by your wife after 3 years of marriage, you lost your job, you are eternally pissed off with women who out compete you, you fantasize about creating a “beta revolution” where all the losers males will rise up and overthrow the Evil Feminists and Alpha males.
And now you are planing to run away from it all in your White Trash van and live on the road.
Think about it.
And then please kill yourself.
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AJ
honest question.
are you aware there are people who do not share your premise there is anything inherently wrong with “racism” or “bigotry” and that hurling those words at them as epithets falls on deaf ears?
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Joe
Willard Libby –
‘ No it is not.’
Libby, stop outing yourself as an insecure tard.
If you really think the black experience is not a major part of the American experience, you really are the modern racial equivalent of a flat earther.
Your reading comprehension needs work.
I wrote “No it is not” in response to this –
“That’s too bad, because in so many ways, the African American Experience, is indeed THE American Experience.”
The so called black experience is not “indeed THE American Experience”.
If you don’t understand that then you are the equivalent of the people who think Neil Armstrong didn’t land on the Moon.
Admitting black history is part of American history….
I don’t need to “admit” it. I acknowledge it freely.
But “part of” and “indeed THE” are two very different views of American history.
If you weren’t so hysterical and insecure about race you would be able to comprehend that difference.
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And now, on a related, but far happier note, here’s a list of 5 famous black women I would gladly ‘segregate’ with:
#5 Vanessa Williams:
#4 Selita Ebanks:
#3 Emanuela de Paula:
#2 Gabrielle Union:
#1 Liela Arcieri:
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Avowed Racist Willard Libby-
“A.J., I think your suggestion is something YOU should consider.”
Doesn’t that piss you off.
Even a loser like me can call you out on being a fuck up.
Reciting the low points in my life will never make your racist longings cone to fruition or sway more white people to your cause.
Man, I bet that sticks in your craw.
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It’s inextricably intertwined into the American fabric so in many ways it is the American Experience. Much like the immigrant experience is in many ways THE American experience. Or the Anglo experience is in many ways THE American experience. He just means it’s an inextricable part of the American experience in many ways, not that it’s the ONLY or most important part of the American experience.
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Dana-
“are you aware there are people who do not share your premise there is anything inherently wrong with “racism” or “bigotry” and that hurling those words at them as epithets falls on deaf ears?”
I am now.
As I said. A man can be as racist as he wants in America, but when he tries to make it law, or convert others to his way of thinking…
I will oppose him.
The major problems we face today do NOT exist because we have people with varying amounts of pigmentation in their skin, living among us.
There’s differences of opinion…
And then there’s bat-shit crazy.
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“Neither of you represent a majority, that’s why slavery and segregation are against the law, and also why white people are not forced to pay reparations.”
Oh but we are. They just don’t call it that. this way we will never be free stop paying.
I agree with Willard, In a free society one should have total freedom to live near, work with study with, hire, rent to anyone they choose.
If blacks are equal to whites, why isn’t seperate but equal OK? Build their own isntitutions, schools, economy? blacks could freely avoid the hated white race.
All is not about opppression and holding down the poor black man. Like with Mexico, it is in white Americans best interest that blacks are econommically independent. White people are not in a conspiracy to keep the black man down. Most whites would prefer successful blacks. We just don’t enjoy living near you. Or going to school with you.
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A.J. Travis
Avowed Racist Willard Libby-
“A.J., I think your suggestion is something YOU should consider.”
Doesn’t that piss you off.
No. I’m embarrassed for you.
You are a White male failure and your only hope is dreaming of a “2nd American Revolution” to overthrow the Evil Feminists and Alpha males.
That’s irrational and embarrassing.
And for you to pull a SWPL move on me for my comments is just another example of your sorry situation.
Seriously, A.J., it’s over for you. Put the van in the garage and get the garden hose.
Carbon monoxide is your salvation.
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I note with great interest that Dana hasn’t answered my posts, nor my pointed questions in relation to her assertions that I was not “clear” in my writing.
Mandy Been, I take it that you have no problem then with say, HBCUs?
Joe, thanks for the clarification to Willie. We’ll have to pray for him.
AJ, thanks also. Willie forgot to tuck his hood into his back pocket.
O
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Mandy been here a while-
Bullshit, you do not pay reparations.
You might fund welfare and other socialist programs with your taxes, but that money goes to any poor person of any race. Not just to descendents of former slaves.
I oppose welfare and all other Government charity, BTW.
“If blacks are equal to whites, why isn’t seperate but equal OK?”
If you want separate but equal in your home, fine have at it. If you don’t want to live near blacks, fine move somewhere else.
But the flip side of that coin is that if a black family wants to live near you, then that’s their right also.
If you want to go to an all-white school, be my guest. But it won’t be a public, government funded school.
Personal segregation is legal. But the US Constitution forbids the government to do it. If you don’t like that, get your white majority together, and pass an amendment.
“I agree with Willard, In a free society one should have total freedom to live near, work with study with, hire, rent to anyone they choose.”
Nice try but he DIDN’T SAY THAT.
He said,
“Segregation forces blacks to be with the inferior black race and to be excluded from greater interaction with the superior White race.”
You can’t put a positive spin on his racist rant, Mandy.
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obs
i said your writing was unclear and difficult to read, not that any of your specific points were unclear once they were discerned.
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O
I have no problem with black only colleges, country clubs, banks, coutnries. If blavks thrive and learn there – great, I hope they will.
I even agree with Mugabe’s right to ethnically cleanse Zimbabwe. Provided whites are given a homeland they can control as well.
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AJ
There shouldn’t be any tax payer funded schools period.
White people have been moving away from blacks for 3 generations now. We can’t keep moving forever.
Reparations come in many forms, not just welfare but loss of government jobs, ACORN, Bailouts, jails, failing schools, public housing, public transportation….
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Avowed Racist Williard Libby-
“You are a White male failure”
If that’s true, it kind of makes your “superior white race” statements look pretty fucking stupid.
So which is it Williard?
Come on, flex that tiny pea brain of yours and come up with a answer:
Does my ‘failure’ make a lie of your claim of white superiority?
Or are you just a racist simpleton?
BTW- I don’t expect a real answer from you. Logic and reason are not your strong suits either.
Funny how you used the word ’embarrassed’ twice in your last blurb.
It makes me think that what really gets you pissed is that I am a white man, slapping down your Klan-worthy racist rantings.
Please continue to be embarrassed that I, and the majority of white people, are so far ahead of you in intelligence and simple decency.
When racist fucks like you, call me a loser, I wear it as a badge of honor.
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I don’t think some people on here grasp the extent of white male, in particular working class, frustration and feelng of disenfranchisement.
A lot of the people I work with, who had previously been very PC, afraid to offend anyone types have been letting loose lately. Apparently no longer afraid of retriburtion, ostracism or just so fed up they need an outlet.
Blacks and SWPLs (like AJ) who want to shame them with taunts of “rasist” will soon learn that it no longer makes them scurry like roaches form the light. It will be really bad if their needs arent’ addressed before the “cry wolf” black and feminists victim profiteers shut up.
Whether you agree that many whites have a legitimate greivance or not, won’t really matter as they are quite convinced that they do.
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Mandy BHA-
“Reparations come in many forms, not just welfare but loss of government jobs, ACORN, Bailouts, jails, failing schools, public housing, public transportation….”
Yeah, I’ve never seen a white person in jail, or on the subway.
Acorn was started by two WHITE brothers.
“There shouldn’t be any tax payer funded schools period.”
Agreed, but till we undo that law, we can’t lawfully segregate them.
“White people have been moving away from blacks for 3 generations now. We can’t keep moving forever.”
So you really DIDN’T mean it when you said:
“In a free society one should have total freedom to live near, work with study with, hire, rent to anyone they choose.”
You really meant, that YOU should be able to keep black people away from YOU. And to hell with what THEY want.
You’re just digging the hole deeper Mandy.
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“You really meant, that YOU should be able to keep black people away from YOU. And to hell with what THEY want.”
NO, I would not force my presemces on black neighborhooods.
Why the heck would they want to live next to racist white trash redneck like me in the first place? That is what I don’t get.
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Mandy Been,
Understood, though I personally think Mugabe is a thug and an embarrassment.
Dana,
Understood, however, since you’re the only one making the statements, it only follows to reason that only you are having a hard time w/my writing style; errbody else seems to be doing just fine with it.
Mandy Been again,
The USA is a very large country. If Whites such as yourself want no part of Blacks there entire states w/virtually none in them, like Montana, Alaska, Idaho, North Dakota. Costs of living is low, education and other public services are good, and crime is low-why not move there?
What AJ said is on point. You are to discriminate in any way you like. The gov’t on the other hand, cannot do that. Now if you think that needs to be changed, like AJ said, there are ways to go about it. Good luck with that.
O
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O
“Understood, though I personally think Mugabe is a thug and an embarrassment. ”
He is destroying his own people. That is his biggest crime.
“Costs of living is low, education and other public services are good, and crime is low-why not move there?”
I already did (well not one of those specifically but one with similar demographics.) My initial motivation was to just get aways form SWPLs and find a husband, though.
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obs,
certainly you are savvy enough about personality types not to appeal to “everyone else thinks…” with someone who is practically autistic
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Mandy BHA-
“Blacks and SWPLs (like AJ) who want to shame them with taunts of “rasist” will soon learn that it no longer makes them scurry like roaches form the light.”
That made me laugh. Clearly you don’t read my blog.
I am the poster-boy for disenfranchised white men.
But I’m just smart enough to realize that the people who are pissing on me the most, are RICH men, who are mostly white (not blacks.)
These rich and powerful men dole out benefits to people with less money and power than them, unevenly, so that jealousy and envy will keep the average man divided, and therefore powerless to oppose them.
In the words of William Wallace:
“Your so concerned with squabbling over the scraps from Longshank’s table you missed your God given right to something better.”
If you believe that blacks are the ones making your life miserable, you have been fooled.
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AJ
do you live in a blue collar white neighborhood that abuts on a bad black neighborhood or that’s being invaded by section 8 housing and have to send your kids to public school because you can’t afford catholic school?
that’s the plight of every working class white in philadelphia county–it’s NOT rich white people that they are concerned with, its the IMMEDIATE physical safety of their families and their kids education.
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AJ
You are right in th at powerful, rich mostly men are stirring this pot.
This country is corrupt, every country in history has been corrupt.
Since i’m not ruch or powerful, and never will be, what I want, and I beleive most people want, is to live in roughly homogenous culture where I can feel a part of a people, an ethincity a tribe and not have to constantly deal with antagonizing “alien” tribes that will naturally compete with me and my family.
yeah, so rich white dudes would still lord over me. So what?
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Obsidian–
Horse plop. Completely untrue.
It’s untrue of Steve Sailer. It’s untrue of Charles Murray both in the Bell Curve and since. It’s untrue of the folks at GNXP. It’s simply untrue of most if not all the intellectual leaders of HBD.
You’re simply trying to ridicule and dismiss the whole idea by associating it primarily with no account tertiary or lower followers, or even with less adept followers here.
ARE there IQ obsessed nerds who do poorly with females that are attracted to the truths in the concept of Human Bio Diversity, yes. Is that the essence of the ideas? No. Not remotely.
In fact the very wording of the concept refers to all kinds of diversity.
Some things have simply been better measured than others. IQ has been by far the best measured and it DOES matter a lot in a technological society. But so do a mixture of other things. Determination, charisma, trustworthiness, sometimes aggressiveness or the right amount of it, and even good looks, all matter in all kinds of business and professional and trade areas. As I have said repeatedly. This is thoroughly within and part of the concept of human bio diversity.
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Mandy BHA-
“Why the heck would they want to live next to racist white trash redneck like me in the first place? That is what I don’t get.”
I don’t get it either, but that’s freedom.
I don’t get why people ruin their bodies with tattoos and piercings, but some do.
I don’t get why some poison themselves with drugs and alcohol, but some do.
And I really don’t get why some people can’t understand that a man is good or bad based on his behavior, not his melanin level.
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AJ
Let me put it better this way , in order for a multi-cultural society to function, some one or some groups must rule with an iron rod. Otherwise everything breaks down into ethnic squabbles.
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Obsidian; Apargus
I think this comment of Apargus consisting mostly of long well chosen quotes from HBD’er (or race and gender realist) Charles Murray, was excellent:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/henry-louis-gates-junior/#comment-110870
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AJ
“And I really don’t get why some people can’t understand that a man is good or bad based on his behavior, not his melanin level.”
are you that dense? This is what happens when you put any 2 competing cultures, ethnic groups or tribe close together. Witness the history of the Jews in Europe.
As long as they were a recognizable out group, they had trouble. White are the out group. I don’t want my kids to get beat up or raped for being white. It does happen in this country, regularly.
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Doug,
First off, I never challenged the basic premise of HBD, in fact it makes good commonsense to me. Nor have I really had a problem w/the idea of differing races having differing degrees of smarts, again just commonsense talking.
The problem I have w/the second and third tier HBDers, as you call them, is their tunnelvision focus on one very narrow, albeit important, facet of human ability, tothe exclusion of errthing else. Moreover, I take these people to ask for their attempts to use said narrow interests to advance political agendas.
I’ve read the Bell Curve, and it deals almost exclusively w/the issue of IQ. Sailer also deals extensively w/IQ although he has written about other human attributes as well and how they might be exploited in the modern day job market. His article Great Expectations is perhaps the best example of this, and which I’ve mentioned before in this thread.
O
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Mandy BHA-
You keep getting my hopes up, and then dashing them.
This is logical:
“I beleive most people want, is to live in roughly homogenous culture”
This is not:
“in order for a multi-cultural society to function, some one or some groups must rule with an iron rod.”
Culture does NOT equal race.
In order for a multi-racial society to thrive, all members of it must subvert their individual heritage (Irish, Polish, Chinese, African) to the common identity and SINGLE culture (American.)
That’s the only thing that ever worked, and it is the reason why America has achieved the greatness it has.
“so rich white dudes would still lord over me. So what?”
So stay divided, stay in chains. That’s what.
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“In order for a multi-racial society to thrive, all members of it must subvert their individual heritage (Irish, Polish, Chinese, African) to the common identity and SINGLE culture (American.)”
And most blacks have shown they are NOT on board with this plan
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A.J. Travis
Avowed Racist Williard Libby-
“You are a White male failure”
If that’s true, it kind of makes your “superior white race” statements look pretty fucking stupid.
So which is it Williard?
A.J., you are obviously not a very bright guy and like so many SWPL type White people you try to mask your weakness and stupidity behind moral outrage over White racism.
I know the routine.
Does my ‘failure’ make a lie of your claim of white superiority?
I don’t think you are superior to anybody regardless of race. I never said I did.
Funny how you used the word ‘embarrassed’ twice in your last blurb.
It makes me think that what really gets you pissed…
Why do you need to pretend I’m “pissed” at you?
You are an emasculated White trash loser. A beta failure, you said so yourself. There is nothing about you I respect. The fact that you are a White “man” makes you even more pathetic in my eyes.
I’m embarrassed for you, I’m not pissed at you.
I’m not pissed that you wrote this on your website –
“We, the Beta men, need to band together, and prepare for war.
War against those who seek to marginalize or destroy us.
War against most women, and all the Alphas.
The Beta males will ignite the 2nd American Revolution. And we will restore order, and modesty, and shame for women who fuck us over, and the Alpha men who encourage them to do so.
The Revolution is coming my brothers.”
I’m embarrassed for you A.J. You have not handled your situation like a man and your “White Knighting” for blacks on here against my comments is your only way of gaining a sense of value.
When racist fucks like you, call me a loser, I wear it as a badge of honor.
That’s all you have. This deep seated White boy need to elevate yourself “morally” above another White man while using blacks as the test of relative moral superiority is THE meaning behind the SWPL worldview.
I’ll try to help you out here a little A.J. but you need to make the effort to learn.
In response to obsidian’s po’ lil’ colored boy whining about….
Black folks loved to Lindy-Hop too, but that fact didn’t help them from being segregated into all-Black dancehalls and the like.…..
I wrote this –
“In other words be forced to confront their own people. Segregation forces blacks to be with the inferior black race and to be excluded from greater interaction with the superior White race. This is the basis for black bitterness.
This mentality is referenced when Malcolm X speaks of negroes thinking the White man’s ice is colder and the White man’s sugar being sweeter.”
The point that I was making, in agreement with Malcolm X, is that the deep psychic need many blacks have to be “integrated” with White people is that they believe White people are the superior race on many levels. And let’s not pretend it is merely economics.
It makes no sense logically to complain about being “forced” to do the Lindy-Hop in “all black” dance halls unless you believe that is an inferior situation.
Why would anybody believe blacks dancing with other blacks in a dancehalls without White people present is a bad thing?
The assumption being made is not economic inferiority, it’s race inferiority.
That’s not my assumption, that’s the assumption of people who view segregation as a threat because it forces blacks to be more integrated with their own apparently inferior people and separated from the superior White people.
That is a mentality many blacks have whether they want to admit it or not. And many White liberals for all their anti-racist sanctimony share that view as well.
But this is not something you need to worry about A.J.. You have more pressing problems in your life.
Viva la Revolucion!
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AJ
I agreed with you until recently when it became clear that some people are not ever going to forgive and forget and in fact hold a grudge against people who had nothing to do with past injustices
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Mandy-
“are you that dense?”
I guess.
Please link me to the data that positively correlates skin pigmentation and goodness or evil.
Not skin pigmentation and intelligence, because higher intelligence does not make someone good or evil.
The white drug dealer is no worse than the black stock swindler, even though one might be more intelligent than the other.
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Mandy BHA-
“And most blacks have shown they are NOT on board with this plan”
And neither are you.
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mandy Since i’m not ruch or powerful, and never will be, what I want, and I beleive most people want, is to live in roughly homogenous culture where I can feel a part of a people, an ethincity a tribe and not have to constantly deal with antagonizing “alien” tribes that will naturally compete with me and my family.
yeah, so rich white dudes would still lord over me. So what?
this tells me so much.
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You’re right I’m not on board with a plan to wipe out my people.
It is not the pigmentation, it is the inter-racial haterd and violence that is very lopsided, mostly one direction black on white which the media, schools, or government, absolutely refuses to address.
My blue eyed, blond haird kids are not going to be punching pags if I can help it. This is statistically much more likely to be as a result of black on white violence. I won’t willing put my kids in the same situation i was in.
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Dana, don’t whites from the mid west have a very different culture from whites who live NYC? Futhermore, what do you want upper class blks to do with lower class blks? Place them in the public square so you and others like you can heep scorn on them? Call them every name in the book, take switches to their behinds?
chic
how do whites react to “trailer trash” in your estimation
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mandy My blue eyed, blond haird kids are not going to be punching pags if I can help it.
I don’t want your children to be punching bags either. I wonder why you are so willing to settle for living without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of as long as you’re around white people. Have you not read world and European History to know that people don’t really give a darn about race (American type) when it really comes down to it.
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Avowed Racist Willard Libby-
“A.J., you are obviously not a very bright guy”
Again, a racist wacko like you, calling me “not very bright” is a compliment.
By all means keep it up.
“I don’t think you are superior to anybody regardless of race. I never said I did.”
Sure you did dopey.
I’m white, and part of your ‘master race.’ If I’m a failure, and Obsidian isn’t, your ‘white is right’ bullshit falls apart.
“I’m embarrassed for you, I’m not pissed at you.”
Sure you are. You’re pissed that I reject your lies. Because I’m white, your tiny little brain can’t fathom why I don’t embrace your racist rhetoric.
Race does not equal culture dumbass.
American culture produced the triumphs that you brag about, not the white race.
And the American culture contains blacks.
And that makes your blood boil.
I can just picture your little aryan face getting all red inside that nazi SS outfit that you wear around the house, oh sorry, I mean ‘the bunker.’
Your attempted insults at me and my situation are as ham-handed as your other attempts at logic and reason.
But by all means, keep trying.
That’s the only way that special-needs children like you will learn.
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chic noir, the only punching bag I would like right now is plastered with yours and Mandy ! XD’s faces.
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Mandy BHA-
“You’re right I’m not on board with a plan to wipe out my people.”
‘Your people’ should be all Americans — White, black, and every other hue in between.
If you don’t agree, then by all means goose-step your ass back to whatever racially pure country you’d like, and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
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chic
how do whites react to “trailer trash” in your estimation
Most ostracize others glamorize* but I’ve never had a white person in my presence put down poor whites to amuse me or make me feel comfortable.
*I should say this is what I get mostly from popular media since I don’t have many close white friends. among the few whites who I do associate with regulary, I don’t find the need to start conversations to trash poor whites.
I guess, I’m just not the type of person who dwelles on the negative all the time. I like to make my firends relax, giggle, and forget about their major problems for a few minutes. my glass is half full.
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see, i know there is something in the paragraph you wrote that i’m missing, but i can never put my finger on it. i see 4 sentences, each sentence appears to be grammatical–but for some reason strung together i can’t make any sense out of them. i’m fully willing to believe it is a deficiency on my part and not something about what you wrote. maybe someone else can help me–are any of these sentences logically connected to each other or what i wrote?
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lurker
chic noir, the only punching bag I would like right now is plastered with yours and Mandy ! XD’s faces
Lurker you don’t want any Chic Noir son. I will handle you better than 2 dollar ho had did on saturday night. Now kindly take your e-turrets having azz to some far out right wing site or shut up.
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Dana,
Just caught one of your responses to me-are you saying that you’re autistic?
O
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A.J. Travis
I can just picture your little aryan face getting all red inside that nazi SS outfit that you wear around the house, oh sorry, I mean ‘the bunker.’
Godwin rules!
Your attempted insults at me and my situation are as ham-handed as your other attempts at logic and reason.
But by all means, keep trying.
No, I will leave you now so you can fight on in the name of The Revolution.
You have more important battles to fight.
Evil Women and Alpha Dogs await you.
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make that:
those that paid them, or their spouse.
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Shouldn’t “Universal Health Care” be done in a way, so that if people want private coverage, they can get private coverage, but public coverage is offered to everyone?
Somewhat like how people have the option of sending their children to public schools, or they can send them to private schools if they have the money.
I don’t think Universal Health Care is a solution; although I do think the uninsured need to have some sort of coverage.
Also, while I don’t think doctors should be put on salaries, I also think it’s wrong for them to charge the insurance a few hundred dollars just for a ten minute visit, and some of the time patients don’t even get a chance to see the doctor and instead see a Physician Assistant. That’s not right either.
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obs no lol no “official” autism but i score off the charts systematizer and well below even male norm on empathizer on all tests i’ve ever taken re: asperger’s.
like these:
http://www.glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/MaleFemale.asp
like most intj’s i believe i am high functioning aspergers, which is really rare in women. just because i enjoy the fact that i tend to think like a man doesnt mean i think it’s normal–it’s not
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Avowed Racist Willard Libby-
“Godwin rules!”
You should get used to being called a nazi, especially when you, well… Espouse the beliefs of the nazi party.
“No, I will leave you now so you can fight on in the name of The Revolution.”
Run home little boy, before you shit your diapers. There might be black people here.
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oh hell no
HLG doesn’t need to raise a finger.
He gots a Big Brother
to be The Muscle
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Mandy!XD-
“Shouldn’t “Universal Health Care” be done in a way, so that if people want private coverage, they can get private coverage, but public coverage is offered to everyone?”
No.
The US Constitution makes no provision for government sponsored charity, no matter how well intentioned.
It is illegal. Plain and simple.
If people want health insurance, let them work at a job, save their money and buy it themselves.
I have no insurance right now, and have been in that situation at several times in my life. When I got sick, I paid for my doctor visits in cold hard cash. Since I am healthier than the average person, I only had about 1 Doctor’s office visit a year, which amounts to around $100 bucks a year.
If I had paid for insurance, do you think I could have paid that little for 1 year? No way baby. I took the risk and I was responsible for the consequences of my actions.
UHC is as wrong as giving everybody who wants one a free house or car.
Yeah, I know. Obama’s doing that too.
I even saw a tv commercial for government-paid-for cellphones, for welfare and medicare recipients, the other day.
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@dana:
You’re weird. Sometimes you scare me. I think it’s because you remind me of my mom.
@AJTravis:
WAWAWA I DIDN’T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE AND I SOMEHOW SURVIVED SO SOMEHOW EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE ELSE ISN’T THE SAME AS ME WAAAAAA.
IT’S NOT FAIR EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD SUFFERRRRRRR WAAAAAAA
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mandy
at 17 have you ever paid taxes? if not, are you not at all ashamed of the hubris required to even have an opinion on whether confiscated wages of hard working adults should be used to fund the “health care” of others? or do you simply not understand how unseemly it is.
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Mandy!XD-
Posting in all caps doesn’t help your ‘argument.’
Have you ever read the Constitution?
Why bother right? Too busy?
Just like a girl: Something makes you feel bad, so you want the government to fix it so you don’t feel bad anymore.
Not having insurance, does not mean you suffer, dolt. It just means you have to pay your medical bills yourself.
Never mind that UHC is completely illegal. You want it. Just pout a little, stick out that bottom lip and Big Daddy Obama will give it to you little princess.
Try gathering some wisdom before you run your mouth, and maybe you might take a small step towards becoming a woman.
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1) Yes, I have paid taxes.
2) I haven’t given a straight opinion on Universal Health Care, I just thought it’d be fun to harass AJ Travis.
3) Nice adult shaming behavior. Adds a special little touch to your post.
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children should be ashamed to have unseemly opinions. then again i think you are about as 17 as i am.
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The bottom line in all politics is that it’s spoils based. Who gets what, from whom.
The rules set down by the Gates incident means:
1. Black aristocrats like Gates rank higher than working class cops and will make their life hell if the working class Whites don’t kowtow to them constantly.
2. Race trumps all other loyalties, among Blacks, period.
3. Blacks, despite being 12.5% of the population, eat first, followed by Latinos, at 23% or so, followed by Whites LAST (who comprise 66% of the population).
4. Obama and Black aristocrats like Gates (WEB Dubois’s “talented tenth”) will NEVER let Race go. EVER. Everything and everything is a Farrakhan like rant about Whitey, the “JOOOOOSSSSSS!” and how oppressed Black men are in America. It never ever ends and every White guy is supposed to feel ashamed and guilty of being a Straight White Male, forever.
5. Farrakhan and Obama are two peas in a pod (see #4).
6. Most important, this is not stable because crying wolf about racism means it’s overplayed. Most White guys are barely getting by, financially pressed, and sick of racial posturing. They want Obama, Gates ,Farrakhan to shut up and go away.
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Whiskey,
One of the reasons why I didn’t vote for Obama was precisely for the items you outlined in your list. I voted based on experience, knowledge of the issues, and views that broadly reflected my own. My Man, McCain, lost.
You see, just because I understand the Great American Skin Game, it doesn’t necessarily mean that I *agree* with it. I know the deal, hence why I always try to see the chessboard from all sides.
But for so many folks, Black, White and Other, its hard to see beyond that color thing. Especially when, let’s face it, White folks saw to it that they not only ate first, but kept other groups, especially Blacks, out of the feast and was tossed the scraps.
Literally.
Well, it takes awhile for ish like that to fade, Whiskey. We’re dealing w/human beings here, and old habits die hard.
So, I see exactly what you’re saying. Problem is, that we, you and I, are kinda in the minority. Pardon the pun.
O
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@dana:
Was that a sort of compliment?
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whiskey–
No. That rule took a beating in this incident. Gates’s assertion of special racial privilege when being dealt with by the cops has become widely seen as such, certainly more so than before the incident. It was an anti-PC teaching moment, as it’s turned out.
I’m not saying it’s transformative. I’m say that’s which side of the ledger it pushes upon in the public’s mind.
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here is his video news. it worked for me.
http://uploading.com/files/63PA1BBN/Henry Louis Gates.rar.html
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@doug1- you are decent with character analysis( for a man).
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Chic Noir–
You’re just figuring that out?
I’m actually rather brilliant at it.
But thanks.
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I always thought you were very modest, Doug.
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AJ Travis Wrote :
And now, on a related, but far happier note, here’s a list of 5 famous black women I would gladly ’segregate’ with:
Just 5? I say there are as many as 30 black women in America who would rate as 9s and 10s.
Tamron Hall on MSNBC, for example, has superb tracts of land.
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AJ Travis,
60% is a hell of a lot bigger than 40% dumb-ass. So the large majority of these problems are perpetrated by NON-BLACKS!
That is not the point, you quant-challenged girle-man.
When the 12% that is black is committing 40%, that is high. When the 88% that is not black (white + Hispanic + Asian) is doing just 60%, that is disproportionately low.
The concept of proportion is clearly above your low IQ, dumbshit.
Plus, if whites + Hispanics + Asians are in the same group, how is that racist.
You, sir, are the racist.
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“your protestations are transparent. the protestations of a protected class in danger of losing the gravy train”
What “gravy train” are you speaking of? We don’t have “free” health care now.
@AJ Travis:
You see, usually, when someone behaves out of character, and types in all caps, and acts in a ridiculous manner, they’re not being serious.
I know, shocking.
I was picking on you. I really love your reply to my “argument,” if you could even call it that.
As it is, I think Obama’s health care plan is screwed up. With that in mind, I still need to point out two flaws in your argument:
a) You assume that all people who can’t afford health care are like you; hardly ever sick. As a family member of someone who has a chronic medical condition CAUSED by a doctor (irony, I know) I know how expensive health care can be for someone who isn’t so lucky. But I’m not going to impose that world view on you or anybody else here, because not every situation will be exactly the same as mine.
b) What risk were you taking if you couldn’t afford health care? For some, health care is so expensive it ISN’T even an option. That “risk” you’re talking about is their way of life.
I think you should just keep your argument centered around the Constitution. I mean, someone could always throw in the “it’s a living, evolving document!” argument, but eh. That’s the strongest one you’ve got.
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Dam,
Mandy been here a while.
You can be rich.
Shoot me an email at my site.
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Left a comment there w/ my email addy
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@dana who opined about mandy with the XD – “then again i think you are about as 17 as i am.”
I know what you mean, I have a similar opinion.
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I don’t know if I should feel flattered that you think I’m older than I am.
Or upset because you think I’m a liar.
And in the end, I wonder if seeming older than 17 is a bad thing.
But it’s how I am, I guess. I thought I was pretty teenager-ish.
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test
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I’m predicting that “Whiskey” has not and will never get close to a woman again, and will likely wind up like the Pittsburgh shooter, or killing himself out of despair over his failure to procreate. Read this article; it explains the real reason for the shooting.
(http://exiledonline.com/revenge-of-the-nerd-what-the-media-
wont-tell-you-about-the-rampage-killer-
who-attacked-a-pittsburgh-aerobics-class/)
“Whiskey” is a clearly disturbed individual (look at his Sarah Palin worship even after her lack of qualifications) who earns enough money to be comfortable, but possesses ZERO social skills and is a morbid fucker. No woman will ever so much as come near someone with such vibes emanating from him. He spews crazy predictions, mostly in an attempt to show how smart he is, but in reality he is a mediocre intellect who is upset that his life didn’t turn out with the big house, wife and kids. Instead, he is a middle-aged loser who can’t get a date and will likely die alone.
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