Reader Stan B left a link to a video of George Sodini giving a tour of his nondescript home. According to Stan B, the home in the video matches the address in Sodini’s DNS registration.
At 1:17 you can see a book on his coffeetable with the title “Date Younger Women”. I can’t make out the author. So it looks as if Sodini was making an effort, however half-assedly, to find love.
Nothing in the video strikes me as especially weird. He sounds a little nerdy/Aspergery and humorless, but the video content is unremarkable. People make narrated videos of their homes all the time. Someone suggested he made the video for an online dating site, but if that’s the case then why did he zoom in on the dating guide book? If he thought that letting girls know he reads those kinds of books would mean they would find him more attractive then his understanding of women was weak. If I had to guess, I’d say he at least peripherally knew about game and internet PUA sites, but didn’t know nearly enough to wipe the stink of beta off him. He probably knew just enough to lift himself out of his 20 year celibate depression with the faint flicker of hope.
His home is the typical beta castle — spartan, functional, ugly furniture, prominently featured computer and TV, neatly stacked boxes in the basement, well-kept. His home would not have helped him bang girls, but it wouldn’t have chased them away either. Many men need help decorating their homes with more stylish and daring set pieces or unusual artifacts, like a collection of historical walking canes used by world leaders, or a hookah on the coffeetable.
So clearly the fellow knew about game… but he was too far gone for it to make a difference.
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Pathetic…and sorta sordid.
I could have helped him before snappage.
Mine is more gigantic state of the art plasma, Maxim mags, used condoms – and heavy crystal and jade ashtrays overflowing with $20 cigar butts.
c’est la vie
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If he had a stuffed or dismembered body in the basement girls would have been all over him.
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He doesn’t sound healthy to me. He sounds very on edge and as if he his hiding his anger.
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Apparently he was at “The Right Attitude Workshop” trying to learn game: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=367457301
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Sodini definitely counts as a data point against the hypothesis that “every man can save himself, if only he knows GAME.” He was obviously aware of the seduction community, but the tools available to him weren’t enough.
This blog’s readership is generally accepting of HBD, right? We admit that intelligence, not to mention almost every psychological trait worth measuring, are all primarily genetically determined. Physical traits and athletic ability follow the same pattern. Why do we assume that game is uniquely malleable? It’s like as soon as we start talking about success with women, everyone’s a Gladwell-reading Blank Slatist.
I thus submit the following to the list pretty lies: Game is to a large extent genetically determined. In a polygamous society, some men will be left out of the sexual marketplace regardless of how many negs they memorize.
Zdeno
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””””””Firepower
Pathetic…and sorta sordid.
I could have helped him before snappage.
Mine is more gigantic state of the art plasma, Maxim mags, used condoms – and heavy crystal and jade ashtrays overflowing with $20 cigar butts.
c’est la vie””””””””””
Woman prob saw his house and where like ok I have no work to do. They see a mountain of used condoms in the corner along with a years worth of cigar buts they know it is a challenge.
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I still think at certain intelligence levels the game of life becomes like playing basketball against a newborn.
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The “Date Young Women” book says it all I think. If a guy can’t get chicks AT ALL, and can’t even get male friends (even the biggest nerds can find other nerds to play Warcraft with), why would he want to try to and shoot for the gold standard, which is YOUNG CHICKS? Even guys who can get laid have trouble mastering that. That’s what I mean when I say too many betas in America are the male equivalent of fat chicks. They have unrealistic standards. This dude is trying to jump from wheelchair confinement to olympic sprinting.
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@Zdeno: bravo.
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yeah, he sounded normal enough, if humorless, boring, and a wee bit over interested in how much things cost. What is up, though, with having a house that has no individual personality!?! Hello, art, or colored walls, or anything besides a bland rug and a plaid couch/comforter.
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In a polygamous society, some men will be left out of the sexual marketplace regardless of how many negs they memorize.
I agree with this, except to say that even in a monogamous society, many people are still left out in the cold.
Also, there was never a time in the mythical past where every man got a beautiful woman, or even a 5/6 or above. It is only very recently that some men feel that are absolutely entitled to have this. If you cannot get a 5/6 or above, it probably means that you are not a 5/6 or above. Such is the law of averages. While most feel that they are above average in driving ability, intelligence, and general appeal to the opposite sex, mathematically that cannot be true. And as the advice here is so often given to women, also works for men as well, settle, settle early, and settle hard. If collge is the pussy paradise most of the guys claim that it is, why not give guys advice to propose to their college sweethearts, at a time when he has all the numbers on his side, his paramour is young and cute, and still relatively untarnished?
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Here is the book:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Date-Young-Women-over/dp/0962067156
I think the book predates modern game. It may contain sparsely applicable ideals but its probably not game as we know it.
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zdeno, if he started his game aspirations at a reasonable level he may have had hope. but based on that book and his blog postings, he wanted a young, nubile coed. he needed to work his way up to that.
also, nothing here proves any HBD hypotheses, since he was so abused by his mom and older brother that a blank slatist could easily claim validation for THEIR theories as well by saying his environment made him like this. think about it.
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@ Zdeno:
I think it is debatable whether or not this man actually “knew” game.
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The concept of game is as old as civilization. Game with a capital G as popularized by the PUA community is a recent intellectualized version of lowercase G game.
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lol lowercase g game
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The concept of game is as old as civilization.
The problem with the current situation is that boys are instructed to do the exact opposite of what will get them girls.
Learning Game could be as little as not doing the beta things that don’t necessarily come naturally, but you do them anyway because you think you’re supposed to.
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I agree PA.
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I wouldn’t say game is genetically determined, except at the margins–the naturals on the far right who were born with it and the extremely homely or creepy at the far left whom it won’t help. But for most guys in the middle, a little learning and attitude adjustment makes up for a lot of genetic or learned betatude. Heck, just listing to DeAngelo expand on “Attraction isn’t a choice” for five minutes changed the way I saw male-female interactions significantly.
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Not all guys can learn game and go on to have success. Some people simply cannot be helped. I’ll leave it to others to examine why. But this is a fact that you rarely hear.
One of my friends taught pickup for a prominent PUA (an idiotic term but I lack anything better). I saw him trying to coach guys that obviously had no chance in hell. My friend is very optimistic and a gentleman. He was helping these guys long after their paid coaching had ended. They knew theories and techniques inside and out. But they simply couldn’t make things happen.
I have taken guys out to help them and I have come to see that either a man has latent potential that can be developed or he doesn’t. If he doesn’t, nothing will help him. Nothing. I’m not sure why but that is what I’ve seen.
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He could have used some artwork on the walls. Maybe a couple of portraits and a pet would have helped as well.
As it was, the guy seemed profoundly disconnected from society — a problem that appears to be growing more and more common.
Guys like Sodini, in days past, would have put their technical skills to use in running a farm, and therefore would have had an intimate connection with life itself. Today, it is possible to be almost completely removed from the world that sustains us, and I think there is something dehumanizing about such an existence.
It’s hard for me to imagine such a solitary existence. Although I don’t have much time for women, I have a couple of children (this is why I don’t have much time for women), and they definitely animate my surroundings.
Sodini is an extreme example of the breakdown of civil society that Putnam bemoans. Ultimately, it is mainly single, childless, socially inept men who pay the heaviest price in our atomized, self-oriented society.
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@Joe
I agree, yet as game evolves its promulgators become more adept at conveying its concepts, timeless as they are.
Game is term that survives based on loose correlation to strategy and the approach of indifference to outcome. I do not pay attention to the capitalization of the term.
On the other hand I do not capitalize the names of women I am involved with.
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You should see his other video. In it, he mentions “RDS,” which I interpreted to be a dyslexic reference to Real Social Dynamics.
[editor: RDS is “r. don steele”]
He was clearly aware of Game and looking into it. He was like the 90% of the guys who find game and are not able to stomach the 100 rejections before they get skilled.
The video itself looks like a body language and voice tonality exercise. “RDS” mentioned at about 20 seconds in, and “this” clearly refers to learning game.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MOSB46PGH
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Dude-here’s the next Sodini sending a video to his ex.
I can’t make it past the first minute!:
get this dude some help-now!
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And ‘he’…… focused directly on the Game book.
Emmanuel Goldstein, the Ultimate Beta, truly is a piece of work. An IT Nerd, who was religious, and didn’t have sex for twenty years.
We now discover that Goldstein also practiced the evil of ‘Game’….. and… and… he went after women younger then himself. He tried to date people the ‘wrong’ age!
Given the evil twisted nature of this Ultimate Beta….. I wonder, is Goldstein actually dead? Or has he tricked the authorities, and even now plans other vile plots against Obama. To stop the Hope, the Change the One has promised us. One can only hope Lightworker Obama will triumph over Goldstein’s evil.
Help Support Obama! Honor him in your own home with:
http://www.chiaobama.com/
I fear for Obama, with such a treacherous creature as Goldstein plotting his downfall.
Oh, and Post It, and They Will Come.
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the diff between “Game” and “game”
is not the intellectual ponderings
of 19 year-old *intellectuals*
it is indications of
the laziiness of
Generation
Text
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“Why do we assume that game is uniquely malleable? It’s like as soon as we start talking about success with women, everyone’s a Gladwell-reading Blank Slatist.”
To me, a good analogy to learning game is strength training or learning a martial art.
There are people who are naturally stronger, more athletic/aggressive/trainable, but everyone can improve.
Just like not everyone will be an MMA UFC competitor or Olympic Weightlifter, don’t expect to be Don Juan.
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@ Zdeno
almost every psychological trait worth measuring, are all primarily genetically determined
That’s not what HBD says at all. You could say a few traits are primarily genetically determined, or that almost every psychological traits has some genetic component, but no one would say what you said above.
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My o m e g a friend Ace claims he is unreachable by Game. Fortunaltely, he has plenty of male friends; not just video game dorks, but grade-A alphas who genuinely like him and go whorin and gambling with him. He also has LJBF girls around.
But his house looks like crap inside. Clutter, dust, yellowish walls, ancient carpeting. I keep telling him that I can help him paint, I can install laminate flooring and kitchen tiles, and replace his shitty old blinds with bright new Lowes ones… because that’s the kind of guy I am.
He acknowledges that work needs to be done, but won’t commit to a weekend. Some o m e g a s have powerful resistance to change.
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guess he finally “pulled the trigger” as they say.
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Spit… That video is painful.
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The trip about watching this video is the fact that you are listening to the voice of a guy who in less than a year will have shot and killed three women in addition to himself. Keep this fact in mind while watching and listening to the video.
This is probably the first time in my life that I have actually listened to the voice of a killer. The banality of evil.
We cannot know the souls of those around us.
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2:53 – “…OK, now let’s go down the cellar…”
Another one of Pennsylvania’s finest.
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Anon — That’s BS. Think, “Marty.” Borgnine was no beauty, but he gets a match. Assisted by a neighborhood.
In a monogamous society, almost everyone gets a match. Typical woman — wanting the advantages of polygamy (banging the few Alpha men) without the costs (massive dis-investment by most men in women and children and society).
Also typical woman — Women are hypergamous, so absent a controlling society that dictates equal marriage (something women hate), a man must be somewhat older and more powerful, to attract a mate. Which rules out College sweethearts which don’t exist anyway in the hook-up culture of college.
At best, a few guys (given female hypergamy and easy divorce) will get married in their late twenties to early thirties, divorced when becoming what Sandra Tsing Loh and her friends called “a Kitchen Bitch” (i.e. helping husband) and fairly massively dis-invested in women with a heaping dose of anger.
Like I said in the other thread, the problem is not guys who snap and go Cho (VT shooter). It’s the guys you don’t see, who just don’t care about women and kids. THEY will exact their pound of flesh, guaranteed.
Comment — Good points but that two minutes of hate has it’s limits. For a guy who is so isolated, sexually and emotionally from women and society, what does two minutes of hate matter? Why would he care? He’s invisible. Like the updated version of Ralph Ellison. So he’ll do little things. Like be rude and obnoxious on the subway. Indifferent to women in need of assistance. Hostile to children.
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The HBD point is an important one that often goes missed and misunderstood here.
I don’t think Roissy dismisses HBD when he promotes Game as a tool to help beta men. He surely realizes that it’s not a panacea, but that it can be effective on the margin.
Also, not only must HBD be taken into account, but just the simple mechanics of how status operates must be understood. Ignoring the somewhat genetically determined factors that drive how status is conferred in society, the fact is that status by definition is a fixed good and thus status distribution is a zero sum game. If all the betas in the world learned Game and mimicked alpha status so well that they were virtually indistinguishable from true alphas, the arms race would be kicked into high gear and some other features would pop up to determine status.
If every boy in the world were born what we consider a true alpha today, some novel way of dividing the male population by status would quickly develop. Just as if all the proles in America stopped eating fast food and became vegans/vegetarians like their social betters, the upper middle class vegans/vegetarians would probably come up with some new diet shit or adjustment to distinguish themselves.
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And a MAJOR part of the storyline and plot was that she was homely as hell. His neighborhood didn’t assist him, in fact they all maligned him for dating such a dog. His friends all acted like he was too good for HER.
Seriously, it’s like you can take anything and misinterpret it to say what you want it to say.
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I do, and it just keeps getting
funnier every time
I see
it
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The book is R. Don Steele’s _How to Date Young Women for Men Over 35_, which is generally agreed to be awful, the product of an aging technical writer who discovered he could bang ugly fat fast-food employee women in Hawaii and call them “young women.” It lies at the origin of the Ross Jeffries/Don Steele kerfuffle on a.s.f. in the old, old days.
The book itself is a midlife crisis remake guide, a primer on basic rapport game, and at least acknowledges that women test men. As someone who has been sexually ghettoized (as depressed and disabled), and dealt with equally sexually ghettoized women (either fat or disabled), I am a bit more skeptical–I think Sodini was deeply depressed all his life but highly-functional enough that no one noticed, and, because of the disposability of men in this culture, no one cared. A 32-year-old female virgin is an outlier, but someone embedded in familial and social networks. An aging womanless male is someone whose lack of a woman reflects his lack of familial and friendship networks. The social problems that produce such men are adequately documented on this blog.
It is unsurprising that Sodini took on LA Fitness–one of the women was apparently his ex, and he killed women mainly around his age, while wounding many hot young things. So the feminists are right when they say it arose out of his sense of entitlement, but the problem was denial of a path out for him from a situation of familial abuse, depression, and loneliness. Wanting a normal life is not “entitlement.”
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[…] 6, 2009 by roissy It looks like I was right about George Sodini knowing about the seduction community (or a niche of it, at any rate). He was […]
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Apparently he was into some religious nuttery as well:
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/politics/141814/shooter_read_sexist_christian_author%27s_book_before_pittsburgh_female_aerobics_class_massacre/
“Media analysis has so far ignored or glossed over Sodini’s religious affiliations but the shooter’s Internet diary suggest his last readings were the Bible and a book by a Texas evangelist, R.B. Thieme, Jr. who has written that husbands own their wives, as literal property and promoted an odd teaching that for each man on Earth there exists only one correct “right woman” in all creation.
According to Thieme, men can recognize their divinely-appointed opposites without physical contact, through something Thieme called “soul climax” ”
The soulmate myth again. One of the biggest lies that exist in our society. No wonder he went apeshit.
To quote Robert Plant he was tryin’ to find a woman that’s never never never been born.
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Thieme was also the favorite kooky pastor of Marilyn Quayle, back when Quayle was VP. stranger and stranger.
@cecilia- he is and was. that’s what i meant by good/evil twin – i guess that wasn’t so clear. as long as it’s funny, i’m pretty sure GMan doesn’t mind.
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Maurice,
There are far more like him than like you. How do you think it will end?
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Heh. You got me pegged there.
I’m actually glad I got divorced while still pretty young. I’ve got time to get over it, and I won’t make the mistake of leaving myself at the mercy of a woman ever again.
Having been through the typical American marriage/divorce, I now look at women as maids, wombs and sex partners, but not as “life partners” or anything ridiculous like that. I also doubt that I could get all three of the above – or even two out of three – in one woman.
So if I want more children, and I would like another kid or two, I’ll look for one with good genes and maternal instincts and not worry about spending the rest of my life with her, because I’ll probably be better off if I don’t.
For a sex partner, I’ll just find one who is hot and young, and be careful not to rely on her emotionally — these women are best seen as new cars; their market value depreciates rapidly over a short period of time, and if you’ve got the funds another can be had by that time.
For a maid, I’ll just hire a discreet, sexless old woman who won’t ever criticize me for how I live my life.
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@lucifer – wrong, and you are an extremely annoying troll. wise up and use your intelligence for something other than carping cynicism.
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The real problem with this guy going postal:
-He is far too similar in profile to people without whom civilization cannot exist. The guys who design and runs network, power grids, power plants etc are more likely to be like him than a PUA.
-He has no outstanding history of going nuts. This is far bigger than most of you realize. You cannot identify people like him as there are too many with that profile. None of his visible behaviors is truly abnormal or even rare.
-For every one who goes postal, there are tens who will be sadistically indifferent. That passive aggressive behavior is going to do far more damage than such outbursts. Do you think a guy who is that pissed off with women, will not pull off some truly nasty passive aggresive stuff. Remember that he was technically very competent, certainly in the top 20% of intelligence.
-He came from an unhappy but still functional family. This is also far bigger than most realise.
I think this is a symptom of something far worse than many are willing to acknowledge.
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Lucifer made his first inteligent comment in this blog
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This guy is a lot like me.
I have not had sex in 7 years. Last date was 3 years ago. I Make 100k a year as a programmer and want to find a girl to love more than anything. I repeatably fail at applying game.
I generally blame myself for my failures but I could not see myself killing others as a way out (that’s just fucking evil). But 30 more years of this shit? I could see that warping me. But fuck the gun shit, I’ll build a nuke.
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Jim
how do you feel about the Wall Street bail out?
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I agree and disagree. Soldini went on a rampage despite not being as grievously wronged as hundreds of thousands of divorced men are every year, who miraculously manage to restrain themselves from murder in the vast majority of cases, probably largely because they love their children and know that violence would only make things worse for them.
However, Soldini did something novel in that he made a declaration of war on American women. Make no mistake: Soldini committed an act of war, and that is a profound statement. War is about objectifying an aggregate of nameless individuals who share some common trait as a monolithic enemy, and attacking that enemy with violence. It is not personal, like your typical family annihilation or workplace shooting. It is an abstraction, and it reveals the emergence of an awareness, on whatever level, of social conflict between discrete groups — in this case, to use Roissy’s term, beta men and women.
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The soulmate myth again. One of the biggest lies that exist in our society. No wonder he went apeshit.
The soul mate myth can be very damaging. For some reason those with religious backgrounds tend to cling to this myth.
Along the same lines, religious groups tend to portray sex as some magical super-spiritual bond that should only exist with one other person. This is also very damaging. It causes tremendous guilt for those who experience sex then break up. It sets those who get married as young virgins up for disappointment with their earlier experiences. (How many people have a first experience that’s story book perfect and not awkward? How much practice is really needed to become a good lover?) It leaves many with desires and fantasies they can never explore and fulfill. (Not all partners want to try or do all things.) And it leaves those who cling to their morals and wait for marriage bitter and angry over what they’re missing while they wait.
The pressure builds up even more for those who feel they must obey some moral code and wait because they think they’re missing out on some fairy tale magical act. And they won’t let themselves enjoy something like a one night stand to get some experience and take the edge off. They’re constantly looking for Mrs. Right and avoiding Ms. Right Now.
I had to come to grips with this myself. I had to realize that no woman was perfect for me or anyone else. That it could be years before I would meet “Mrs. Right”, if ever. And that it was OK to just have some fun with the girl of the moment. I had to learn that avoiding experiences with girls I knew were not marriage material would only make it harder for me to ever find “the one”. Even before game I realized that lack of experience was not good or healthy.
Of course after reading and thinking more about the nightmare that is divorce, I don’t think I even care to find a wife any more. But that’s another topic. Point is different groups teach some really fucked up shit about sex and relationships.
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@lucifer- the indifference, alienation, and hostility are real. whiskey has said the same thing many times. they’re exaggerated, though – sexless beta males are a minority in society (most people eventually find a mate), and people learn, grow and mature with age, even without game. but going postal is not a typical outcome of this – it’s outlier behavior, from unusally damaged people.
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Joe makes a good point.
If the guy was batting zero for 19 years, it was rather ambitious to be expecting to get regular play in the Majors.
He needed to set his sights lower and pick a little of the low hanging fruit while he worked his way up to where he either (a) wanted to be or (b) some point that he could actually attain that he could at least be a some level of peace with.
At his age there is a huge pool of 40’ish divorcees – of mediocre but not too bad looks – who ought to think him a good catch (if his personality wasn’t totally toxic).
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@welmer- QED. that comment makes you the poster child for exactly what we should not allow ourselves to become. hate hurts and disfigures the haters *more* than the hate-ees.
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yep. now that can be a real deal
breaker to a cougar
Oughtn’t it
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Jim, you’re fishing in a dead sea.
You make 100k, so why not travel and meet some women outside America? Here in the states, you have to run game to pick up women, and you get cynical because you realize that they are simply morally vacuous beings who respond in predictable ways to certain stimuli. Also, game takes a lot of effort — even naturals have to spend hours looking for hot women (although some enjoy this pursuit, many people understandably find it tiresome).
Go to Latin America, Asia or Eastern Europe. Being foreign will automatically boost your status. America is quite literally the worst of the worst. The women here have the largest sense of entitlement on earth, and yet they are also the fattest in the world! For men, America is hell on earth.
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maurice,
Remember he was an IT guy at a law firm. In many other job positions, a more sadistic personality could do much more damage.
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What are you blabbering about? Did you just attend a sensitivity class?
Despite the fact that I wrote nothing about hate, but rather wrote in an objective manner about a social phenomenon that is unfolding before our eyes, hate is a perfectly natural and normal emotion.
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Actions like Sodini’s really hurt the male point of view in this debate, because they reinforce the feminist stereotypes of average men as easily prone to violence and rage. which we ARE NOT, even when sexually frustrated.
I think it’s a pretty lie that men are not prone to violence and rage. We most certainly are. It is our nature. I don’t think women have any idea about the thoughts or anger which can go through our minds. Which is why so many women assume they can control and tame the bad boy with their beauty.
The problem is that society has forgotten two things. One is that our nature is there for a reason. Women are built to raise and nurture offspring. Men are built to provide for and protect women and offspring. That includes becoming horribly, brutally violent with anyone or anything that threatens women and offspring. Yes, men are capable of incredible levels of rage and violence, of killing without a moment of remorse. If we weren’t capable of this the human race would not have survived.
Two, boys must be taught to understand this and to control it. They have to learn self discipline, emotional control, cooperation, negotiation, and fighting skills which emphasize controlled escalation / de-escalation. And it takes men to teach boys these things. Women do not understand the male capacity for anger, rage, and violence, and have no idea how to control it. Politically correct, female “solutions” to male behavior only makes it worse. This is in large part due to the fact that modern women think it’s a problem. It’s not a problem, it’s there for survival. And it needs to be respected as a positive but potentially dangerous thing which must be properly channeled and disciplined.
Women love to look down upon men for their anger and violence, but every woman I have known craved the protection of a man. You can’t eliminate violence from a man’s nature yet expect that man to be able to protect you.
America’s prisons are full of boys who never had men to teach them how to control their violence. And when something triggered their anger and their violence, they lost control and ruined lives, including their own. I’ve noticed that a lot of older men are puzzled by the fact that young men are prone to murder today. In their day you would fight, but you would know when to quit. Nobody is teaching boys today that sometimes you’re going to get into a fight, but you need to respect your opponent enough to not kill them or permanently injure them.
I bet Sodini never had any one to help him learn about, accept, and control for noble purposes his natural male anger. He had a brother he hated for beating him up, correct? But no one to teach him how to control his anger, channel it, and use it to defend himself from bullies. No one to teach him that unbridled anger cannot solve his problems. No one to show him how to blow off steam and get rid of some of his anger through boxing, martial arts, etc.
The more our feminized society hides the truth about a man’s nature, the more we are going to see that nature lash out. Once again: boys need men to teach them how to be men.
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Did you just attend a sensitivity class?
Maurice, you do sometimes come across like Doug1’s gelded brother. No offence, you are one of the good commenters, but sometimes the Jack Kempism gets the best of you.
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@DT- good point, and true as far as it goes. but your comment looks at that issue from a bottom-up point of view, so to speak, about how to channel and control male violent impluses that naturally exist; and i was commenting on it from a top-down, empirical point of view – to wit, that violent outbursts are relatively rare, which speaks to the fact that most men, the overwhelming majority, are able to control themselves.
@PA- jack kemp was a political hero of mine, so thanks. by temperament i’m a moderate, which means i tend to be fact-based, rather than ideology-based, flexible rather than inflexible, when making up my mind about something. and also suspicious of extreme assertions, including in the flaming style of the Internet. That doesn’t make me gelded, it just makes me a voice of reason and compromise. imho. others are welcome to think whatever they like.
@welmer- i can see how you could interpret my remark that way, but i was actually trying to be constructive. i went through a horrifying and bruising divorce years ago, and lost custody of my child, as you did. but i moved on and didn’t nurse grudges or stew in bile. now happily married a second time. anger and hate *do* damage a person’s spirit, even when justified.
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Oh, that’s what you were getting at.
I’m moving on, but you know it takes time. However, anger is perfectly justifiable, and proper. It isn’t as though unjust family law is an “Act of God.” In fact, it is a contrived, unnatural injustice that does violence to men and families across the West. The entire country – aside from the hussies who have made out like bandits – should be furious about it.
As for remarriage, I am not even willing to consider it at this point, and have no interest in giving a woman that degree of power over my life ever again. Fool me once and all that.
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What a Forrest Gump! … The most dangerous level of intelligence. Knows enough to be on his own, but understands nothing.
In some bizarre way, he is showing off and so impressed with his mediocre junk. I guess thats why he was so confused and angry when no one else was impressed. I’m sure he worked hard for that stuff though, because hes a Gump… But he never understood that hard work alone does not entitle you to shit.
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Maurice
Ya, I really can’t follow the Whiskey argument that men who don’t care about women are any threat to women.
Exactly what will these men who don’t care about women do? Work less hard and so pay less taxes? Stop being polite?
As if that would lead to legal reforms of inequitable laws, or lead to women dating for security.
What, exactly are the men-who-aren’t-getting-laid going to do, that would change anything?
Go on a shooting spree? So what?
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The world is better off without the douchebag. It’s unfortunate he was successful in taking other people with him.
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>He needed to set his sights lower and pick a little of the
>low hanging fruit while he worked his way up to where
>he either (a) wanted to be or (b) some point that he
>could actually attain that he could at least be a some
>level of peace with.
>
>At his age there is a huge pool of 40′ish divorcees – of
>mediocre but not too bad looks – who ought to think him
>a good catch (if his personality wasn’t totally toxic).
This is actually what R. Don Steele teaches in his materials.
Start low, build on small successes, and work your way up to more attractive and younger women as your physical fitness, stylishness and interpersonal skills improve.
I don’t know of a PUA system that doesn’t say the same thing.
Whatever else George Sodini’s problems were. They definately included both impatience and frustrated wish fulfillment fantasies.
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Welmer
Yes, and the travel will make you a genuinely more interesting and confident person.
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“Attention must be paid.” — Linda Loman, Death of a Salesman
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””””””””’xsplat
Maurice
He was *not* a harbinger of some great social/beta male revolution, and this story does *not* have any wider significance beyond the individual tragedies of his victims and himself.
Ya, I really can’t follow the Whiskey argument that men who don’t care about women are any threat to women.
Exactly what will these men who don’t care about women do? Work less hard and so pay less taxes? Stop being polite?
As if that would lead to legal reforms of inequitable laws, or lead to women dating for security.
What, exactly are the men-who-aren’t-getting-laid going to do, that would change anything?
Go on a shooting spree? So what?”””””””
I would agree to extent this shit goes on all the time. Now if it happened a lot more prob would change. Until it starts making national news every day. Yea not gonna change.
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Maurice –
maurice, don’t pay PA’s criticism any mind. if constructive advice like this is jack kempism and makes you a gelded sellout, fuck it. welmer, you’ve definitely gotten a bad deal, but i hope you can get to where maurice is now. you seem like a good guy who got a bum deal at some point.
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George Sodini apparently posted the following:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/figures-mass-murderer-obama-supporter.html
>November 5, 2008:
>
>Planned to do this in the summer but figure to stick
>around to see the election outcome. This particular one
>got so much attention and I was just curious. Not like I
>give a flying fcuk who won, since this exit plan was
>already planned. Good luck to Obama! He will be
>successful. The liberal media LOVES him. Amerika has
>chosen The Black Man. Good!
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As a man who’s spent most of his life around other men (in the military), I can say that more often than not men do not express openly their emotional/psychological issues like women do. It’s becoming more socially acceptable now, but for a long time, and probably for someone of Sodini’s generation, a young man would just not come out and say “I’m depressed” to his buddies, or “I need help”.
Hell, most of the time we are not even AWARE that we are what could be clinically diagnosed and classified as “depressed”.
I think in Sodini’s case though it was something much deeper and obviously more dangerous than your classic class of “depression”.
He really need help – professional help of the psychologist/psycho-therapist strain, possibly even a psychiatrist (though I have my own reasons for not normally recommending psychiatrists and their “prescriptions”).
It would be interesting to find out if he was on meds like prozac or zoloft, and if he had stopped those meds.
If, by some small chance, he was indeed “just a normal guy” who “snapped”, then I say he set his standards too high. It’s obvious from what he wrote and from the book featured in this video that he desired women out of his age range. Fair enough. But then don’t complain that “30 million women have rejected me”.
If indeed he was just a normal guy who was frustrated because women in their 20s did not want to date him, all he had to do was go for women in his own age group, or at least close to it.
My condolences to the families and loved ones of the victims.
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‘If he thought that letting girls know he reads those kinds of books would mean they would find him more attractive then his understanding of women was weak. If I had to guess, I’d say he at least peripherally knew about game and internet PUA sites, but didn’t know nearly enough to wipe the stink of beta off him.’
Out of the mouth of a self-proclaimed PUA who uses Game to pick up chicks.
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The two books, on his table, you’re looking for are:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Date-Young-Women-over/dp/0962067156
http://www.amazon.com/Body-Language-Secrets-During-Courtship/dp/0962067164
Both by the same guy. R Don Steele. Not sure what the “Office Politics” book’s about. But, if I had to guess I’d assume it isn’t just another book but something for wherever he worked.
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Joe — You’re right. my bad, I only recalled the first act of the movie where he’s badgered to get married. Doesn’t the neighborhood come around though? And he meets the girl at a neighborhood dance, too IIRC.
Maurice — I agree that most guys like Soldini in the sexual marketplace won’t go postal. BUT I would argue they will not care one whit about women or children, and be open to anything that will upset the status quo, giving them a better “deal” and at a minimum be unwilling to put themselves out for anyone.
The question is, if for every guy who goes postal there is a good deal more uninvested, and can we afford a significant cohort, anywhere from say 2% of men to 25% in an age range cohort (i.e. 34-40 etc.) to be uninvested in society? To further have NO HOPE of investment?
I’d say no. So while Soldini is irrelevant, the question of male investment in society is not. I’ve run through the GSS on my site (you can check the data yourself). A full 25% of men 35-40 White are never-married at IIRC, post 2000, a big change from around 2% IIRC at the start of the data in 1973. That’s a big delta. Sample size is small, so the result might be screwy. And guys might “magically” just get married post 40 (though I doubt it). But there it is. Single mothers imply single men not raising kids, too. Female hypergamy expressed always leads to massive male disinvestment and social unrest punctuated by revolts of bloody proportions under some charismatic leader.
Welmer — I think the problem for younger guys is that they drift into West African models — spread your seed, invest in women not at all. That’s a recipe for social disaster. It has destroyed British society.
Lucifer 145pm: Agreed totally. The social implications are huge.
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His home doesn’t matter if he can’t get women there in the first place, and it seems like it would be fine enough if he did get a woman there.
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Joe — You’re right. my bad, I only recalled the first act of the movie where he’s badgered to get married. Doesn’t the neighborhood come around though? And he meets the girl at a neighborhood dance, too IIRC.
Maurice — I agree that most guys like Soldini in the sexual marketplace won’t go postal. BUT I would argue they will not care one whit about women or children, and be open to anything that will upset the status quo, giving them a better “deal” and at a minimum be unwilling to put themselves out for anyone.
The question is, if for every guy who goes postal there is a good deal more uninvested, and can we afford a significant cohort, anywhere from say 2% of men to 25% in an age range cohort (i.e. 34-40 etc.) to be uninvested in society? To further have NO HOPE of investment?
I’d say no. So while Soldini is irrelevant, the question of male investment in society is not. I’ve run through the GSS on my site (you can check the data yourself). A full 25% of men 35-40 White are never-married at IIRC, post 2000, a big change from around 2% IIRC at the start of the data in 1973. That’s a big delta. Sample size is small, so the result might be screwy. And guys might “magically” just get married post 40 (though I doubt it). But there it is. Single mothers imply single men not raising kids, too. Female hypergamy expressed always leads to massive male disinvestment and social unrest punctuated by revolts of bloody proportions under some charismatic leader.
Welmer — I think the problem for younger guys is that they drift into West African models — spread your seed, invest in women not at all. That’s a recipe for social disaster. It has destroyed British society.
Lucifer 145pm: Agreed totally. The social implications are huge.
xsplat — A bunch of disaffected men can jump on a demagogues bandwagon and provide the marginal support to go from fringe to player. See: Napoleon, Caesar, Hitler, Lenin, Peron, Chavez, Castro, among others. Lenin was just another nut bouncing around Geneva, until he got back home. And guys who didn’t know anything but he promised them a better deal signed on.
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After listening to that guy’s voice on the tape, he sounds like he just does not have fun at all, and doesn’t laugh or experience humor much. Asperegy indeed.
I bet he took -EVERYTHING- too seriously.
He should have started fucking a hooker every week while he learned game, and went out and practiced game. He could have practiced game in an adjacent city where nobody knew him, so if he bombed it wouldn’t come back to haunt him or anything. He desperately needed to get laid though, and get that monkey off his back.
Roissy wrote that “game can save lives” (or something to that approximation).
Its not a nice thing to say, but call girls can save lives too (and souls also) for guys who are in streaks that are dryer than the Saudi desert. This guy needed fuck a female and feel some physical acceptance and intimacy, even if it was bought, to rejoin humanity. He sounded like a robot.
As bad as what he did was, I feel sorry for him. I also feel sorry for those gals in the class.
I hope more women learn about “soft polygamy” and the poisoning of the well of the “nice guys” that many of the same women intend to fall back on if they hit 35 and are still sinlge. All those fruitless years make these men so bitter that they can only feel doubt, suspicion and contempt, so they are getting kinda ruined by their experience in their 20s and 30s. Men generally need some pussy to be normal. I know their are outliers like David Alexander for whom masturbation and porn can suffice, but most men dont have the imagination for that. There are a few genuinely asexual men, but they probably dont number one entire percent of the male populace.
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Whiskey
Ya, I get that part. I’m just wondering how I can use this knowledge to my benefit.
Any ideas?
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”””””””xsplat
Whiskey
A bunch of disaffected men can jump on a demagogues bandwagon and provide the marginal support to go from fringe to player. See:…
Ya, I get that part. I’m just wondering how I can use this knowledge to my benefit.
Any ideas?””””””””””’
Exactly someone that rises up that will offer more. Also offer excitement and some wild times.
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I need to attract followers, and offer them excitement and wild times.
Ok, so far so good.
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Jim,
If you ever do go postal, please remember not to kill men. Most men sympathize with you.
Also, don’t kill random women. If you absolutely MUST go out in a blaze, shoot up some feminist meeting.
All murder is bad. But if you absolutely MUST do it, you should strike at those who caused you your pain. Not men, and not average women.
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This dude was a total gomer. Flat in affect indeed. He should have boned a hooker, or at least looked for some kind of mail order bride if he was making good cash. I can’t even imagine a doofus like that speaking to an American woman.
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xsplat:
”
Also offer excitement and some wild times.
I need to attract followers, and offer them excitement and wild times.
Ok, so far so good.”
Somethings to add to the list
1. Grow a funny short mustache….
2. Loose your left ball
3…..????
4. World domination.
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@smoothvirus: “Apparently he was into some religious nuttery as well…”
Apparently he got over it enough to murder a bunch of people too. Read his blog:
“The worst people by far are the religious types. Especially a right-wing, stiff-faced fundie like Andy. A condescending, demeaning, passive-aggresive person. Frigid, rigid, linear and totally inflexible. Being a very serious person, he cannot hide his frown-lined face. He better not try to smile; lest his face might crack. I knew children of parents who grew up in strict religious homes. Religion has a certain stink to it of guilt, shame, fear, and that moral standard that always contradicts the natural tendencies and desires of a person.”
Left wingnuts will always find a way to blame some author they don’t like. When that fruitcake shot the security guard a the Holocaust museum, I believe it was considered to be Fox News’ fault.
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Grim, I’m an expert at your #3. I’ll work on my weak points then.
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Lupo, thanks for that quote. An excerpt of your excerpt: “Frigid, rigid, linear and totally inflexible.”
The guy is not aspergy. He’s poetic.
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Rain And makes an interesting point about Game’s limitations for a man Sodini’s age. Would he really be limited to a 46 year old divorced 4, and then only after intense effort.
As a thought experiment, what would your advice have been if Sodini came here asking for help instead of shooting things up.
Who among all the many Gurus should he have gone to instead of Steel. What could a guy like him realistically expect to achieve, in say two years.
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Xsplat — Think Huey Long. “Every Man a King.”
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JIM
I second what Welmer said to you. Get out of the USA (avoid Canada, women are just the same there). And keep reading Roissy and other suitable blogs & websites.
Have you noticed, that Roissy (for one) is not primarily focused on getting himself a single, highly virtuous, sane, mature, etc. woman for a long term relationship? He may wish to correct me here, but I think that while he certainly prizes such rare women and goes for them when they cross his field of view, his main goal is simple hedonism, and he’s not too concerned about a woman’s moral character as long as she’s smokin’ hot. You, on the other hand, want the love of a good woman.
My point is that the North American environment, with its mostly slutty, irredeemably corrupted women, is suitable for Roissy types but not for you. Keep reading this blog, and its archives, to find out why.
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He could read here and probably have picked up a woman to make “love” to. Look at arpagus. Took him about a year and he was at point where he thought rape would be an option.
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[…] with a 3 or 4 women in her mid forties. plenty of 40ish frumpy looking women would live in his house, watch his tv and drive his […]
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Ha, hookah on the coffee table. Really? Historical Canes?
Buy nice furniture. It isn’t that expensive. Get it used and it’s cheaper than the dull nondescript furniture that everyone has and it’ll last forever if you pick out good pieces.
Buy some art. Not prints. Not department store art. Art from artists. Local BFA students will sell paintings at least some of them will be good.
Get a no fooling bar. Not necessarily a built in. One of the free standing bars.
A stereo and vinyl are sort of cheesy and impractical but also sort of catnip. Get a box with a razor and a mirror in it.
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Clearly this video was intended to be seen by others in the seduction community. Why? Because he claims the books he has are familiar to the intended audience.
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“In a polygamous society, some men will be left out of the sexual marketplace regardless of how many negs they memorize.”
This is true. The proper solution is to resist the ongong trend towards a polygamous society. But this seems to be one solution which the rather libertarian game theorists cannot accept.
Note that game theory makes no claims of “one man for one woman”. It proposes to keep the unequal system in place but purports to offer every man a chance to be an “alpha”, and by implication argues for the neccessary existence of “betas”. Obviously if all men adapted game theory the sexual distribution curve would not change one bit, we’d merely end up with more obnoxious men.
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An entertaining wikipedia read, thank you. That guy was a force of nature.
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Ironically.
I can’t believe I’m saying this.
It would have been a lesser evil to rape women than to kill them.
Rape isn’t death.
Which is why even Arpagus endorsed a “solution” (not one, really) that is morally superior.
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We’re sitting here with our jaws agape. Thanks for the laughs. You’re SUCH a tool that honestly I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it for myself. My god, I’m so glad I’m not you.
[editor: and yet you cannot stay away, intrigued as you are by my powerfully charming and stylish presence. tingle!]
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He was a boy in a man;s body, who had his family, and church and almost his employement reject him in unision. I did more digging, He was quite accurate in what he wrote. He had tried to date in may and again 2 weeks before he did this. He never quit trying. He keept looking for friends on myspace even after the first time he backed out in Jan. Unless he had a human to help him which we know he did not, his jokes was masking his pain, he had no hope and niether did his victims.
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what time is it ?
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Through you championing details. It helped me in my responsibility
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Oh! This is so sad. What a waste… he should have waited…
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I think Sodini had bigger demons than just an inability to get laid, and I don’t think anyone will ever know all the hamsters running around in his mind. I’ve seen MUCH weirder-acting dudes pull chicks so I think there was a lot of self-sabotage going on for him vis-a-vis women. He seems like an average beta shlub who should have at least been able to nab a 4 every now and again. In fact he talks with the deadpan vibe of a guy who’s been married for 20 years.
The book seen in the vid is “How to Date Young Women For Men Over 35” or some such by Don Steele. The video was made as a part of Steele’s self-improvement course if I remember correctly, hence the allusions.
I read the above book when I was 22 or so, about 13 years ago. It was fine for guys who were returning to the dating world from long, sexless marriages, and that’s about it. Nothing revolutionary but it was solid techniques on how to look your best and not be a complete wimp. Good for dudes who haven’t dated since 1988.
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“A 32-year-old female virgin is an outlier, but someone embedded in familial and social networks.”
Except when having no friends and not being embedded in any social networks is why she’s a virgin.
“As if that would lead to legal reforms of inequitable laws, or lead to women dating for security.”
Y’know, having to date/marry/fuck for security instead of being able to get security while keeping her legs closed can *kill* a woman:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34022-2004Dec3.html
I bet if that woman had been allowed to get some other job instead of housewife or hooker, then she wouldn’t have to expose herself to yet another person’s bodily fluids to stay secure. Either she’d be able to help her man afford to feed and treat their kid, or she’d be able to stay a virgin instead of having a kid to support as well as herself.
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