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Relationship Game Week: Subtle Dominance Plays

Reader PA left a comment describing how he once held his woman’s hand “against the grain” as they walked — that is, his hand was behind her hand. He said she did not like the unnatural feel of it. In the interest of corroborating this peculiar observation, I did the same with one of my girls. I prepped her first and explained that I was going to hold her hand differently, and she was to tell me how it made her feel.

As we were walking down the sidewalk, I moved my hand behind hers, such that her hand was in front (back of her hand facing forward) while my hand, fingers intertwined, was in back (my palm facing forward into her palm).

Two point five seconds elapsed before she spoke.

“Ew.”

“Ew?”

“It feels weird. I don’t like it.” She dislodged her hand from mine violently, and resumed the traditional style with her hand resting behind my hand.

“What was weird about it?”

“I don’t know, but it felt wrong. Like smelling something really bad.”

At this point, I would like to inform the studio audience that my girl was a professed feminist, a real “I am wymyn, hear me roar” product of our nation’s higher miseducation system. And yet, here she was, unknowing victim to her biomechanical urge to be submissive to a dominant male, even in something as trivial as the arrangement of our handholding while we walked together.

I write a lot about the importance of psychosocial dominance in male game, and how of all the positive traits a man can possess nothing is as effective as his subconscious dominance cues for turning on the gina spigot — not money, not looks, not humor. Fame is perhaps the only trait that can score a man more pussy more easily. Naturally, when the femtards show up here they see the word “dominance” and they immediately screech and squeal about how this means I advocate men should beat women, or that women should be relegated to life under burqas. But as is typical for the vajflapping brigade, they are incapable of comprehending the finer distinctions of subject matter that offends their delicate… or should I say weak?… sensibilities.

Psychosocial dominance is not a warhammer to the head; it’s akin to an ancient language spoken in hushed tones by our mind’s central command under the noisy clacking of our glitzy human interface. It is subtle, but not so subtle that it can’t be gleaned, and learned by those who have less of it. Game is, in effect, a system for recognizing and mimicking those male mate value dominance cues in one’s behavior. These dominance cues can be either the behavior evinced by alpha men over lesser men, or by men over women. The two types of dominance are not the same (see: social proof), but there is plenty of overlap.

Here are some other subtle dominance moves that you should incorporate into your relationships with women, thus ensuring years of freely available sex, affection, and loyalty:

  • Don’t trail your woman in the grocery store. If you’re pushing a cart, stay in front of her. Never linger over brands on the shelves. Know which food you want before you get to the store. If she lingers too long, make her food decision for her. Occasionally veer off to another aisle to do your “man-time” shopping, leaving her wondering where you went for a minute. Return with an industrial sized bottle of lube an an innocent look on your face.
  • Don’t ponder your decisions out loud. Women hate indecisive men, even when that indecisiveness leads to better choices. As gina tinglers go, it’s preferable to make a wrong decision than to make no decision.
  • Never discuss money matters with your woman. She’ll love you more if in a moment of desperation you are caught stealing and thrown in jail than if you whine about having no money.
  • Don’t “keep an eye” on your woman. If, for instance, you are at a party, don’t trail her around the room with your eyes. Either ignore her, or join her. Occasional knowing winks are permitted.
  • Learn the power of NO. “Can I borrow this book?” “No, I’m still reading it. You can have it when I’m done.”
  • Don’t be a “sensitive guy”. No one likes that guy, especially not women, despite their insistence to the contrary. When she cries, don’t rush over to comfort her. Let her cry. Like an ex of mine once told me, “Sometimes a girl just needs a cry.” If her brooding bothers you, leave to hang with your buddies or find a household project to work on. If you feel you absolutely must do something as a token of sympathy, hand her a box of Kleenex.
  • When seating yourself at a restaurant, always put her in the chair that affords maximum protection from the thru-way used by patrons and waiters. Always choose for yourself the chair that provides maximum field of view of the restaurant environs. On the Metro, stuff her into the seat closer to the window.
  • On dates, let her pay for shit once in a while. It doesn’t have to be 50-50 in outlays, (and this is particularly pertinent if she makes a lot less than you), but neither should you box yourself in as a chump provider. When she reaches for her purse, don’t make a big production out of it. “Oh, hey, I got it, I got it, really, unless you want to.” Horrible. Just be cool, stay silent, and act as if her coughing up some of her own dough is nothing out of the ordinary.
  • Always control the remote, TV, computer, stereo, and circular saw. Let her rest her head on your lap when you watch movies together.
  • If you often find yourself walking ahead of her when you two are outside at farmers’ markets or the like, resist the urge to constantly look over your shoulder to see where she is. Get comfortable with the idea of being a gravitational force to which she cannot stay away from for long. Think of your cock as a powerful electromagnet and her as iron filings. Don’t be a human GPS unit.
  • The dog is yours, not hers, even when it’s hers. It’s a pack leader thing she wouldn’t understand. Exception: She has a gay microdog. That’s all hers.
  • Abuse her cat when she’s not looking. It’s good for reining in the cat’s sense of entitlement, and it’s good for your mood.
  • Master the art of controlled physical dominance. If she’s in your way, grab her around the waist and gently push her aside.
  • You ever notice how the assholes and douchebags with the hot chicks always act like they’re unaware of their girls’ presence in public? Like their women are just some tag-alongs they humor once in a while? Yeah, you’ll want to be that asshole.
  • Stop laughing at her unfunny jokes. She’s knows she’s not funny, and she knows you’re placating her. Beta.
  • If her sister is ugly, tell your girl that you see some resemblance. If her sister is hot, ask her if she was adopted.
  • I’ve experimented with many techniques for coaxing girls I date to stay on the slim and narrow. The best one I’ve found so far is to come up behind her while she’s naked in the bathroom, lean against the door jamb, stare at her ass for a bit, don’t smile, hint at a frown, and walk away saying nothing.
  • If someone asks what your girl does for a living, let her answer. Don’t jump in and answer for her in an attempt to play her up.
  • The morning after at her place, when you get up, either have a plan of action for the day, or leave. Don’t putter around her place with nothing to do. If it’s TV you want to watch, go veg out at your place away from her. There’s no faster way to kill your air of mystery than to swamp her early in the relationship with the humdrum routine of your daily life.
  • Try to avoid at all costs the dreaded words “I dunno”. “What are you doing today, honey?” “I dunno.” “What did you do yesterday?” “I dunno. Stuff, I guess.” If you didn’t do something of note, MAKE IT UP. “What did you do yesterday?” “I smoked a hookah with a buddy who banged Chelsea Clinton. She’s a squirter, according to him.”
  • Don’t be a herb. No, really. Unless you’re a white guy who dates Asian girls exclusively.

650 Responses

  1. Oddly, the feminazis are the most desiring of this sort of thing. With them, you can be more boldly male and – no matter how much they deny it – it turns them on even stronger.

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  2. Reader PA left a comment describing how he once held his woman’s hand “against the grain” as they walked

    Lest someone reads this as “PA was in the habit of holding his woman’s hand submissively,” the setting is that she and I were walking behind abother couple in Baltimore, and she pointed out to me that the dude is holding his girl’s hand in front of his, ie. in the subordinate position.

    This body language observation was utterly new to me, so I tried it out of curiosity, and we both reacted with a swift “Ew!” … and repositioned our hands with mine in fron of hers, like normal.

    Like


  3. Good list. I do most of those behaviours naturally but good to keep in mind some stuff.

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  4. on August 11, 2009 at 1:41 pm Seeking Alpha

    I wonder how some of this stuff changes the further along you are in a relationship.

    Obviously some things don’t change at all, like:

    grab her around the waist and gently push her aside

    or

    Learn the power of NO. “Can I borrow this book?” “No, I’m still reading it. You can have it when I’m done.”

    Other stuff like this:

    Never discuss money matters with your woman.

    Seems different when you’re engaged or married. If she wants something you guys can’t afford, do you make up a C+F reason and play it off or do you say ‘That’s too much right now. We’ll do X instead’? I’ve tried both and have no idea which I like better.

    And this bit is contradictory:
    When seating yourself at a restaurant, always put her in the chair that affords maximum protection from the thru-way used by patrons and waiters. Always choose for yourself the chair that provides maximum field of view of the restaurant environs. On the Metro, stuff her into the seat closer to the window.

    I’m definitely a field of view guy, but these two are often contradictory. In a typical booths along the wall with chairs across the table set-up, the booth affords the best view, while the chair is in the thru-way. In this situation I’ll give up field-of-view because I prefer chairs to booths.

    Or is the answer that you sit next to her in the booth? I’ve never done that.

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  5. The advice is common sense, but many men have been brainwashed to do otherwise.

    Women = Amoral

    So why would any man treat a woman any better than she treats him… seriously. Unfortunately it happens all the time, and it has to stop (one man at a time?)

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  6. Timely advice. Thank you.

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  7. Spacing out while she delivers a monologue. Let her talk for a while and then say, “Say what?”

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  8. Return with an industrial sized bottle of lube an an innocent look on your face.

    Unless you really wanted this item, the act is entirely stupid and immature. This is advice??

    Always control the remote, TV, computer, stereo, and circular saw.

    Always? Completely childish.

    The dog is yours, not hers, even when it’s hers

    Oh please, this is getting ridiculous. You’re sounding very insecure roissy.

    Abuse her cat when she’s not looking. It’s good for reining in the cat’s sense of entitlement, and it’s good for your mood.

    Either you’re a complete idiot or just like to say stupid things for a reaction. Either way, it’s obvious you suffer from arrested development at best or clinical Passive Aggressive Personality Disorder at worst.

    It just gets worse and the amazing thing? Your gravitational pull on douche bags who take you seriously.

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  9. flip ant,

    Don’t quite get it, do you?

    Like


  10. on August 11, 2009 at 1:57 pm snatch magnet

    Well said. I get the feeling Roissy has a new girlfriend.

    Like


  11. Walk a little ahead, and a little too fast for her. She will feel a constant need to keep up, makes her feel a little helpless and inadequate.

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  12. The first time I ever held hands with a girl, I held it “against the grain.” I perceived at some level the social dynamics, but because I was even more beta back then than I am now, I was reluctant to assume the “dominant” position without being asked.

    Twenty seconds in, she wordlessly repositioned my hand into the dominant role. I never went back.

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  13. flip ant,

    if you hate male toilet, sex and fart humor or use female “shaming” language like “immature” to stifle it you are simply a bad companion for a man .

    once in the supermarket my not yet husband went over to some stuffed animals and put the whole aisle of them in sexual positions and made me go look. i peed my pants laughing. he knows i’ll laugh when he farts to make a point. i’d prefer he finds me companionable rather than disapproving or judgmentally maternal.

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  14. About the hand-holding, that’s mostly just a physiological thing. Next time you see a guy and a girl standing next to each other with their hands by their sides, take a look at their elbows: the guy’s will angle out, while the girl’s angle in. Conveniently, this is an excellent way to weed out trannies.

    Like


  15. i am a slow walker- and i have dated runners / fast (power) walkers. i have no desire to beat them in a foot race.

    i enjoy walking slowly.

    Ergo- women almost always walk faster than i do. but i do not hasten my pace- i make them slow down to my speed.

    Sometimes they can walk almost an entire block ahead of me- but they eventually learn to slow down while they wait for me to arrive.

    This annoys the living crap out of them, but i am not going to increase my speed and get into a race with a damned marathon runner!

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  16. This is very good advice. BTW, demonstrating you are the pack leader to her normal sized dog is a very keen and true observation.

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  17. some good advice, roissy….good compiled list here.

    Like


  18. ”””””””””””””’Abuse her cat when she’s not looking. It’s good for reining in the cat’s sense of entitlement, and it’s good for your mood. ””””””””””””’

    If your alpha enough you can just tell her to leave the cat out in a hurricane talking to you is more important.

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  19. “A herb” or “an herb” ?

    I think the importance of the handholding position is being seriously overstated here. Some things on the subsequent list are good, some are kinda silly or irrelevant. Harming cats is always good, though, because cats are hateful.

    @dana- very funny move on your husband’s part. I think I’ll steal the idea sometime for a laugh.

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  20. ””””””’Seems different when you’re engaged or married. If she wants something you guys can’t afford, do you make up a C+F reason and play it off or do you say ‘That’s too much right now. We’ll do X instead’? I’ve tried both and have no idea which I like better.””””””””””

    Unless you find the ability to say no period without the long explanation then yea your going to end up in a house that is at the highest end of your possibility of affording spectrum.

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  21. the importance of the handholding position is being seriously overstated here

    You mean the “ew!” reaction you’d both get from your holdng her hand in front of yours? It may not seem wierd wheh you are reading about it. But try it once in real life. The wierdness is strong.

    Re. Seeking Alpha”s confusion on booth seating: the general idea is that she is tucked away and you are on the outside. Your having the full view is good, but not when it means you getting boxed in by her.

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  22. on August 11, 2009 at 2:29 pm Seeking Alpha

    Unless you find the ability to say no period without the long explanation then yea your going to end up in a house that is at the highest end of your possibility of affording spectrum.

    Not true at all. I’ve already laid down the limit to what I’m willing to spend there and if I don’t like anything I can afford, we’ll continue renting.

    But if you’re used to going out to nice dinners, trendy lounges, crashing in boutique hotels – because you like those things and they’re fun – there’s no need to give a gruff ‘no’ to a night-out suggestion from her if your cash flow can’t handle it this week.

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  23. on August 11, 2009 at 2:31 pm Seeking Alpha

    Your having the full view is good, but not when it means you getting boxed in by her.

    I thought so but it’s always interesting to hear the perspectives here on the social dynamics of seeming trivialities.

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  24. dana

    f you hate male toilet, sex and fart humor or use female “shaming” language like “immature” to stifle it you are simply a bad companion for a man .

    WTF?

    What I get Tommy, is that the asshole and the one who is fucking the asshole both have their price to pay for being ignorant. And the price or consequence is a lot more than just being fucked in the ass or what not. It’s going to entail a lot more than that. I’ll leave you with that bit of obscureness. This site sucks!

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  25. what?

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  26. it’s “a herb”, with a hard ‘h’. the etymology of the term goes back to those burger king commercials from the ’80s.

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  27. Do true alphas even bother to hold hands at all?Sounds kinda beta to me.

    “Abuse her cat when she’s not looking.”

    Does an alpha really care whether she’s looking or not?

    [editor: lol. true dat. but an alpha knows to keep up appearances if he wants the cat-kicking fun to last a long time.]

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  28. what is the price of ignorance?

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  29. On dominance.

    Just want to thank roissy and the feminists and assorted others for giving me the practice at verbal domination. I am now in a position where I am in a position to dominate verbally with people up to 5 levels or more above me. I have gotten my site respect a short time after being here where there was none. I think do to practice with verbal sparring.

    Normally in my life I dominate physically in all situations. If it came to a point where someone was trying to dominate me verbally I would dominate them physically and that always won. Never thought it was worth it to disturb my wa because someone had some bullshit to say. Much quicker to physically shut their hole. Now yea I can do both he he he

    So in job world yea better to dominate verbally if it is a telephone conference.

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  30. I would like to inform the studio audience that my girl was a professed feminist, a real “I am wymyn, hear me roar” product of our nation’s higher miseducation system.

    And my heart takes flight in joyous hope that I too might some day be alphamanitized.

    Like


  31. Return with an industrial sized bottle of lube an an innocent look on your face.

    Unless you really wanted this item, the act is entirely stupid and immature. This is advice??

    Ant, Nobody said it’s mature. However, if the with proper delivery and assuming you’ve laid the proper ground work -said advice can be funny as hell. It also shows you don’t give a crap.

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  32. @J R- I always thought it was “herb” the little plant garnishes. Very apropos. Roissy, your view?

    @al- “alphamanitized”? Your heart singing at the prospect? What kind of feminazi are you? For shame… 🙂

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  33. So in job world yea better to dominate verbally if it is a telephone conference.

    A real life example of conference domnation: several months ago I was performing a very intense project (details need to be vague), with 10-12 very senior executives from various organizations gathered around me. It was a high pressure collaborative situation, and our collective success in large part depended on my maintaining my cool and performing fast and competently. Sometimes with simultaneous and contradictory input from multiple people. All of whom, as older and often very high IQ male VIPs, having huge egos.

    I was loving it, by the way. I did two things that helped me maintain control of the situation.

    One, I put to work the Work-Game principle of “be impudent but supercompetent & hard working.” At one point some dude said, “PA, how do you not go crazy from all the conflicting opinions you are getting?” I replied with a little cocky-funny: “It’s easy; I listen to one guy, and ignore everyone else.”

    Two: this has to be played VERY MUCH with finesse: identify in your own mind a guy who gets on your nerves. Usually it’s the guy who is a secret beta feeling outclassed by his alpha peers, and compensates by being abrasive toward you. In that case, me, the non-VIP younger guy. What I did, was whenever he said something, I’d very mildly neg him. It worked wonders. This reinforced my alphatude and gave me additional boost of cocky confidence, and marked him as the beta among us.

    Just an illustration of how Game also translates to other areas of life. The project was a resoundnig success, by the way, with the guy I was negging being the first to congratulate me on my great work.

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  34. Yea pa if I move into 500g job i’ll give roissy props.
    I think yea moving from the physical to verbal was difficult for me. It is like what is wrong with this person? Why are they being this stupid? Now I just see the method of arguing for what it is. Doesn’t mean shit lol

    Like dude was trying to go behind my back. I am like ok I see what is going on. Normally altercation. I laughed at him about his techinique and proceeded to evicerate dude with reports and facts not thinking it is this way or feeling it is like this. I was also able to explain in detail the entire course of events that led to where it is now. Dude is gone now he he he

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  35. on August 11, 2009 at 3:07 pm Black Military Man

    How do you guys feel when your woman farts in front of you?

    Turned on?
    Turned off?
    Indifferent?

    Was over at my sister’s this past weekend and we were watching SATC. The episode was about Carrie’s trauma over accidently farting in front of Mr. Big.

    I just didn’t get it.

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  36. Make way, rabble, I have a question.

    > When she cries, don’t rush over to comfort her.
    What about when she rushes at me and cries on my breast/shoulder?

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  37. I’ve hever in my whole life heard or smelled a woman fart in front of me. That’s because girls don’… (never mind).

    Actually, once. In high school, I was sitting at my desk and a real cutie walked past me toward the teacher. I inhaled deeply, anticipating the sweet smell of her essence — and instead got a noseful of fart. I never thought she was cute after that.

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  38. I’m all for male dominance in a relationship, but this reads more like a “How-To Have a Loosely-Termed ‘Relationship’ With a Woman You Have No Respect or True Interest in Until She Annoys The Piss Out of You and You Toss Her to the Curb” manual, which is followed by the “How-To Wallow in Confusion and Frustration Once You’ve Tossed Your Woman to the Curb, Wondering Why She Turned Out to be Like All the Rest” manual.

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  39. Wow. I don’t think of myself as the most alpha guy in the world (though I do try) and I have to say I would have thought most of the things on your list would go without saying.

    Learn to say no? When you’re reading a book and she asks for it? Don’t follow her around the market? And when you’re walking in front of her, don’t be looking back all the time?

    If there are people who need to be told these kinds of things, then I guess I’m more alpha then I thought.

    When traveling by foot with a woman, always, always walk at your own speed. If she falls behind, that’s fine, she will find you. If she doesn’t, she probably wasn’t worth your time anyways.

    Possible exception: when escorting your ailing mother or frail grandmother.

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  40. Well yea poetry if your gonna get married you better know everything and have discussed everything.

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  41. but since marriage is not a viable option in states this is what you get

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  42. As usual, this is a weird combination of simple common sense — (don’t be a pushover, say no once in a while, don’t pay for everything, be decisive) — and mean shit (harming a defenseless cat, making her feel fat if she isn’t, withholding sympathy).

    Why?

    Assertiveness is not aggressiveness. You don’t have to be a nasty person to project confidence.

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  43. The whole Women farting thing ain’t really no big deal to me, provided she don’t do it while we’re out and about. If she’s home and lets one fly, big deal. I’ve had Women fart while we in operation, no big deal. Same deal w/burping. So what.

    This notion that Women don’t fart, burp or take Number Two is an extension of the pedestal thing and best to be jettisoned quick-fast.

    O

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  44. despite what the drive-by feminists like to insinuate, game doesn’t imply that healthy a relationship is one of heavy-handed male domination. a healthy relationship is one of complementary characteristics, of the whole being stronger than the sum.

    the things we find most attractive in the other sex tend to be those things we value most, and we value that which we know we need to work on. women are attracted to decisive men, because many women can be indecisive. women are attracted to men who follow their own path, because many women are overly obsessed with what their peers think of them. women are attracted to guys who occasionally act like assholes, because many women have a hard time drawing their own line in the sand and saying no to the ridiculous requests they get everyday.

    a strong man makes his woman stronger, not weaker. i could also list all the different ways that a good women makes her man better, but you get the point.

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  45. this is possibly the best advice you’ve ever written 🙂

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  46. Good list.

    Two to add:

    If she says you are smoking too much, spark up another.

    If she says you are drinking too much, order a double the next time.

    – MPM

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  47. JR: I’m interested in seeing the list of all the ways that a good woman makes her man better.

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  48. Lots of times, my old lady will ask me a question, and I won’t have the answer. But she hates it when I say “I don’t know.” So instead, I’ve learned to say, “I don’t have a fucking clue, and why should I care about such a dumb thing?” That shuts her up.

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  49. The cat thing. I’d go the opposite. When the girl is not around, feed it goodies, and such. Train it to come when called called for petting and treats.

    There’s nothing funnier than seeing the cat come trotting over and ignoring the girl who actually feeds it most of the time, and the look on her face. Annoyance at being upstaged by the “natural” animal magnetism guy, mingled with wonder.

    Pure pack dominance.

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  50. Best relationship advice I’ve ever read, actually.
    “A strong man makes his woman stronger, not weaker.”
    Very true.

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  51. drive an impractical car. One that’s too big or too fast. or is a motorcycle.

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  52. Reality if I got in relationship with woman who had cat. The cat gots to go. Like third date releasing fluffy into the wild for its own good.

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  53. @JR there seems to be a phenomenon in DC and academia, at least, of gals marrying doormats. If you aren’t dominant, you get overwhelmed by the woman’s nesting instinct and become her own little dog.

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  54. I think J R has now becoming my favorite commenter, and this is the first comment of his I’ve read.

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  55. “Never discuss money matters with your woman. She’ll love you more if in a moment of desperation you are caught stealing and thrown in jail than if you whine about having no money. ”

    100% correct. No women, except maybe MAYBE your wife, should ever know how much you make. For so many reasons. This is really the type of things that dads should tell their son. This isn’t game, its a wholesome life lesson/skill.

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  56. “Never discuss money matters with your woman. She’ll love you more if in a moment of desperation you are caught stealing and thrown in jail than if you whine about having no money. ”

    100% correct. No women ever, except MAYBE your wife, should ever know how much you make. This is something dads should be telling their sons. This isnt really even game, its a life lesson/skill.

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  57. This is one of the best Roissy post evers, BTW.

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  58. Don’t ya think you should discuss money matters before you get married though so it is not a surprize when she expects to move into a mcmansion. You can figure that out beforehand.

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  59. My wife and I had the same “Ew, weird” reaction when we accidentally held hands the other way one time. It seemed like a physical problem, though. My hands are bigger than hers, and the underneath hand has to wrap around the other one, so it just fits better that way. If it felt better the other way, we might say the hand with the wrist in front, “leading,” was the dominant one.

    The dog and cat thing is actually pretty observant. My wife has always seen her cat as super sensitive, that he had to be petted as gently as a feather or he couldn’t handle it. I get him down and give him a good vigorous rub, until he’s digging his claws into the rug so he can push harder against me. In an odd way, it shows both of them that I’m the one who always knows what’s needed.

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  60. @poetry- really?

    @J R- it *was* a really great comment.

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  61. Another example of the child support trap: a man jailed for not making payments to a child that wasn’t his.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/11/georgia.child.support/index.html

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  62. @ SeekingAlpha

    If something is too expensive, say you don’t want to get it or don’t want to do that. You just don’t need to explicitly say “I make X a month and I’m not sure spending Y on Z is a good idea.” Just say “No, I don’t think we need that right now.” Have the conversation but use money as the reason…it will work out much better at any point. Though I do agree, at some point money does need to come up. But at no point do you need to feel obligated to show her your whole hand.

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  63. @ Blighter and @ Sarah

    Yes, it is common sense, and yes, natural alphas know this stuff.

    Unfortunately, common sense is not common practice, and 95% of men are not naturals. They have been lied to their entire lives by the feminist-marketing complex, and been told to be sensitive, and that women are better people, and that men are dufuses.

    Watch TV commercials. How many depict dumb men and smart women?

    Watch a Rom-Com. Is the guy acting like a little beta bitch?

    Listen to women give advice to other men. Is it common sense?

    Listen to dudes at the bar…”just tell her how you feel, man” bullshit.

    Like


  64. These last two posts have been excellent, but they are creating a problem for me, because I am in the midst of developing a cheat sheet for men on how to manage long-term relationships. I intend to circulate this cheat sheet mostly to my friends, but Roissy is beating me to the punch. I don’t want to plagiarize, but some of these ideas are worth stealing….

    Like


  65. Well yea don’t tell her about money if you want a child support obligation in the future. Do tell her about it if you want a teammate. We got to expect more from woman and there carreers than just pussy.

    Like


  66. Backdoor Man

    “I don’t want to plagiarize, but some of these ideas are worth stealing….”

    Everyone steals from everyone.

    Don’t sweat it.

    – MPM

    Like


  67. What kind of feminazi are you?

    *shrug*
    A hopeful one?

    Now that the french & crassness has been dialed down again I can return to swooning over some of the clever phrases. I like words.

    Like


  68. Whenever a chick I’m dating tries to engage me in mindless chatter I tell her “I’m sorry honey, but I can’t hear you without a beer in my hand.”

    Like


  69. @ people

    As far as the hand thing goes — yes, it does feel weird, but I agree with the person who pointed out physiological differences. Sorry, I don’t think it “feels weird” because the person in front is suddenly in the dominant position, as much as I’d like to. As a girl, after all, I’m always putting way too much meaning on little stupid things like that and over-analyzing them. SRSLY.

    When my boyfriend and I hold hands, I’ll definitely think, “Hmm, his hand is in front of mine, that’s so sexy and dominant,” but let’s be SRS…it’s just more comfortable.

    I thought over-analyzing was a female trait…but wait, this is a PUA board. Heh.

    @ Gunslingergregi

    Don’t ya think you should discuss money matters before you get married though so it is not a surprize when she expects to move into a mcmansion. You can figure that out beforehand.

    I agree. Money/finance is really important to discuss before you get married, mostly because people usually have totally different priorities when it comes to spending. I’m not even talking men vs. women, either — everyone. Being that we live in the heyday of consumerism, money/spending habits will affect married life a lot more than you’ll think it should.

    But if you’re not getting married, then sure.

    Like


  70. @ Gunslingergregi

    Well yea don’t tell her about money if you want a child support obligation in the future. Do tell her about it if you want a teammate.

    Yes.

    Like


  71. @maurice, well, I don’t know him as a person. But that was a great comment, a viewpoint that I totally agree with.

    I mean, GV8 and myself are a perfect example of what he’s talking about. The things I value in him tend to be things I feel that I am lacking. He makes me better, supports my goals, and I am always behind him and supportive of whatever he is up to, even when it (as usual) cuts into our time together.

    Like


  72. ”””””’Lilgrl,
    I’m not even talking men vs. women, either — everyone. Being that we live in the heyday of consumerism, money/spending habits will affect married life a lot more than you’ll think it should.”””””’

    Yea more than likely both ways. Really you should have talked about everything under the sun including what to do in a situation where you want to cheat before marriage. Both ways.

    But yea if just ltr than not a big issue.

    Like


  73. Chick friends offer great practice for this stuff, if they’re attractive and therefore motivate you to do well. Plus if you flub something, there are no real consequences.

    Another item to add re: not caring about her presence and not laughing at her jokes — don’t smile so much when she’s talking.

    Having a good, energetic expression is OK, but not when you look like one of those guys who’s so grateful to be talking to an actual real-life girl that he’s wearing an open-mouth smile throughout most of the conversation.

    Smiling and laughing are for girls to communicate. Men use subtle eye signals.

    Like


  74. If it please the Forum…

    In light of a recent discussion on the merits, or lack thereof, regarding “Girl Game”, I thought to post blurbs about both “The Rules” and “The Mystery Method” as a simple kind of comparison exercise. I am hopeful that Roissy may at some point conduct a more thorough treatment along these lines, but in the meantime, I’ll try to present both “Games” as fairly and concisely as I can.

    And now, w/o further delay, here’s what Wikipedia had to say about “The Rules”:

    “The Rules: Time-Tested Secrets for Capturing the Heart of Mr. Right is a best-selling 1995 book co-authored by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider . [ 1 ]

    The book’s basic premise is that in order to attract and marry the man of her dreams, a woman should play hard to get. [ 2 ] The authors promise satisfying relationships and happy marriages to those who follow their 35 specific rules, [ 2 ] A woman who follows “the rules” is called a Rules Girl . [ 1 ] The underlying philosophy of which is that women should not aggressively pursue men, but rather ought to get the men to pursue them.

    The book was followed by The Rules II: More Rules to Live and Love By, The Rules For Marriage, The Rules for Online Dating, and All The Rules . In The Rules II (p. 60), published in 1997, Fein and Schneider proclaim, “If he doesn’t call, he’s not that interested. Period!”

    [ edit ] Reaction

    The book generated much discussion upon its release. Some considered it useful and motivational, while others described it as outdated [ 3 ] and antifeminist [ 4 ] , or a how-to guide that teaches women to play games and manipulate men. [ 5 ] Others noted that Fein was an accountant and Schneider a freelance journalist, i.e., without any professional qualification in the subject matter. [ 6 ] The authors admitted they were not professionals in an appearance on NBC’s The Today Show . [ 2 ] They have countered criticism regarding their lack of credentials by citing the results of following The Rules from their personal knowledge. [ 2 ]

    In 2001 the followup book The Rules for Marriage: Time-Tested Secrets for Making Your Marriage Work was released in the midst of Fein’s legal separation from her husband. [ 6 ]

    [ edit ] The Rules

    The Rules are predicated on the thesis that men are thrillseekers engaged by a hunting instinct. [ 3 ] While they seem mostly about playing hard to get, some are about “training” men. Another take on The Rules is that they encourage women to maintain their self-esteem and be practical and self-preserving in the area of dating.”

    Next up: Wikipedia’s entry on “The Mystery Method”…

    The Obsidian

    Like


  75. ””””””””””In 2001 the followup book The Rules for Marriage: Time-Tested Secrets for Making Your Marriage Work was released in the midst of Fein’s legal separation from her husband. [ 6 ]
    ”””””””””””””’
    That was a good one.

    Like


  76. @al- “french & crassness”? odd turn of phrase. perhaps you will pick up quality syntax from your (verbal) Lord & Master…!

    Like


  77. Well at least in the picture,the herb has his asian girlfriend sitting in the window seat! I bet he’s a Roissy reader!Or at least Roosh!

    Like


  78. The Wiki entry for Mystery Method was a bit light so I’m pasting up what they said abot The Game, which I consider a must read if you’re gonna tackle the MM:

    “The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pick-up Artists is a non-fictional book written by investigative reporter Neil Strauss as a chronicle of his journey from ” average frustrated chump ” to “master pickup artist ” using techniques devised by a self-help network of men developing the art of seduction with women.

    In the book, he adopts the pseudonym Style and details encounters with women as he studies with “experts” at seducing women. The book’s publication began an explosion of pick-up artist jargon [ citation needed ] and reveals inside events in the rapidly-growing Mystery Method company of 2004.

    The book was featured on the New York Times Bestseller List for two months after its release in September 2005, reaching prominence again in 2007 during the broadcast of the hit series, VH1 ‘s The Pick-Up Artist . In its original published hardcover format, the book was covered in black leather and bookmarked with red satin, similar to some printings of the Christian Bible . Televised news programs criticized the book as a demonic “bible” of seduction arts. Many love-shy men avidly studied the book for inspiration. Despite the reputation that The Game has received as an expose on the Seduction Community, it was primarily written as an autobiographical work.”

    God, I would love a real apples to apples comparison of the two.

    Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  79. Hey guys, check this out. A study confirmed another PUA-wisdom: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/women-prefer-poaching.html

    Like


  80. ”””””””T. AKA Ricky Raw
    Roissy.

    Herbs may date Asians, but real men do as well.

    Reason being: Some Asians are hot!

    Some women of EVERY race are hot. Doesn’t change the point that Asian girls are the go-to option for white betas with zero game.””””””””

    And look who chimed in on that thread lol

    The guy who can’t take the heat on race talk.

    Got to love irony

    Like


  81. If he would have been me yea the woman would have stayed awake to detect danger then I would have been kicked the fuck back on her lap. Legs oustreched across aisle with one of the older chicks behind us making sure my leg was comfy.

    Like


  82. on August 11, 2009 at 5:23 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Much of these tips are exactly the sort of things I figured out once I discovered the concepts of game and began analyzing my behavior and figuring out just how badly I had beta-ized over years of my marriage.

    I’ve got a few to add to the list:

    – When women get together, especially in mixed company, they will often speak of their men as if they were little children. Sometimes our friends will say things to my wife like “he better behave or you’re gonna ground him!” or “he better watch out or he’s gonna get in trouble with you” or some sort variation of this theme that assumes she’s the authority and you answer to her.

    Whenever I encounter that, I never let that commentary stand unchallenged. I respond, in a cocky/funny manner – ‘yeah right, she better watch out or I’LL be the one doing the grounding!” To which my wife will usually sass back, to which I’ll than turn it into a bit of sexual innuendo – “…not only will I ground you, I’ll give you the spanking you deserve…and we know what happens when I spank you…” Re-framing the conversation to hint at sexual intimacy quickly changes the tone of the conversation and the theme of relational authority gets forgotten by the other women pretty quickly. They typically respond to that sort of thing with “Ew…that’s TMI! Keep that stuff to yourselves!” or “Get a room you two!” Than everyone will laugh, and you can than change the subject to one of your choosing.

    One of the biggest sources of discontent in a LTR can and will come from the influence of your woman’s peers. You have to learn how to display your dominance not just to her, but in front of her peers as well. This sort of behavior actually sparks her attraction.

    – Use PDA very sparingly. I never kiss my woman in front of people, and I rarely hold her hand or cuddle or snuggle or any of that other intimacy behaviors in front of other people…even good friends we are absolutely comfortable with. When you do something, like grabbing her and making her sit on your lap when you’re at a party, she will really appreciate your gesture of affection and amp her attraction for you…but only if you rarely give her the gift of PDA. I just did that the other night at a party. When I drew her to my lap, she gave me those eyes…the same eyes she gave me when we first started dating 14 years ago. My public display of affection that night turned into a very private display by her later on that night…

    Same goes for things like flowers, candy and other so-called “romantic” little gifts that often are what society says are the correct ways for men to show their women they love them. While in the new, courting phase, it won’t backfire on you if you give them frequently…constantly buying her flowers, teddy bears, candy etc. will lose it’s value for inspiring her attraction once you are in a LTR.

    – The most important LTR advice I think I can add, is this: if and when you know you did wrong, that she does in fact deserve an apology, you MUST learn to apologize with sincerity without projecting the attitude that you are sorry.

    That may sound confusing at first, but what I mean is that while you are apologizing for something, you MUST maintain a state of social dominance. You do not beg or plead for forgiveness. You do not apologize more than once…ever. If you do apologize, you say it once, with a full detailed explanation of why you know you did wrong, that you understand why your behavior/actions upset her, than you say your apology, and than THAT IS IT. Do NOT try and “make it up” in explicit terms. Do not bow down to her demands. If she says “you better get me some flowers for this one,” that’s the one sure guarantee that you are NOT going to give her flowers.

    Don’t even ask for forgiveness. Act as if your apology is all there is to say about it, you can forgive me or not.

    That last point was the hardest one for me to learn at first. I cannot tell you how different it is now when we have a fight, and I consciously maintain the frame of not becoming a supplicant begging for her forgiveness.

    Our arguments can be white hot and aggressive, but if I maintain my dominant mentality, these conflicts end quickly and almost always result in the best kind of LTR sex…”makeup” sex.

    I used to think that hot makeup sex was a myth. Now I know the truth – makeup sex only happens if your wife respects you, and lusts you for your dominance. Even if you’re wrong, and you apologized and admitted you were wrong…if you do it right and maintain your dominant status, her anger will eventually fade, but her attraction will increase. Think of fighting and arguing with your woman as the ultimate LTR shit test.

    If you are begging, simpering, cowed beta that always begs for forgiveness and pleads with her to not get mad at you or to just “forget it,” the tension will eventually blow over…but her subconscious satisfaction with your beta demeanor will kill any chance of that hot makeup sex, and start to build up in her and affect all other areas of your relationship.

    Like


  83. ””””””””’Zdeno
    Hey, here’s an idea: mass immigration of young asian women.

    1) If, as it seems, Asian women are more amenable to dating and marrying beta guys, it might reverse (or at least slow) the trend towards polygamy and childlessness.

    2) Asian immigrants will be more productive and less prone to crime and dependency on social programs because of, ahem, “cultural factors.”

    3) Asian chicks are hot””””””””””””””’

    This comment did make some sense.

    Like


  84. on August 11, 2009 at 5:28 pm Dave from Hawaii

    …but her subconscious satisfaction with your beta demeanor will kill any chance of that hot makeup sex, and start to build up in her and affect all other areas of your relationship.

    Ooops, obviously I meant “subconscious DISsatisfaction.”

    Like


  85. No you where right dave people are not satisfied when they are satisfied. That is truth.

    She is giving you the hot makeup sex because she thinks this time it will betaize you this time.

    Like


  86. Good list.

    The morning after at her place, when you get up…

    I almost never ever ever go to a girl’s place. I always have her at mine.

    In my last year-long relationship, I visited my girlfriend’s place exactly once.

    Having her at your place is a sign of dominance. She is in your domain. If you’re at her apartment, you are out of place.

    And you can always kick her out of your place in the morning with a few simple words.

    “Alright, I’m kicking you out,” with a smile and a smack on the ass, “I’ve got stuff to do.”

    Eric

    Like


  87. Hence you have all the pyramid building and shit. If they could build pyramids then obviously they could live ok. They where not satidfied with living ok. They wanted to fucking build pyramids.

    Like


  88. ”””””””Roissy,
    Unless you’re a white guy who dates Asian girls exclusively. ”””””””””’

    Although I will agree that asian woman are angels on this earth and if there is a god they will all get eternal bliss in heaven for the joy they have brought to earth.

    Like


  89. Question for the group. Which is more Alpha?

    1. Not initiating sex with your woman because it is her job to come on to you and service you.

    2. Initiating and demanding sex when you want it?

    I’m struggling with this conceptual issue.

    Like


  90. Dave from Hawaii, I am curious, does your wife know that you do these things consciously? Do you feel like you constantly have to be on your guard to ensure that she doesn’t start behaving in a manner that is disagreeable?

    Obsidian, in my opinion, the “rules” are extraneous just like “games” are extraneous. That is, those who “need” these things basically should work on themselves first. Think about all of the people who seem like they are just lost and need guidance. These rules and games help give them a crutch, so to speak.

    A girl who needs the “rules” probably originally seemed desperate and constantly waited for a guy’s call, and might want “any guy” just so she can be a relationship, whereas the “rules” make her seem like a girl who is less needy. A girl who does not need the “rules” already lives in such a way that she is her own person, can be content and confident without getting worked up by rejection, because she has other things going for her.

    If a girl is always begging a guy to go out with her or to love her, the guy is going to be flattered, but repulsed by her neediness. Likewise when the genders are flipped. But if a girl is a genuinely happy and complete person, and is looking for likewise healthy, happy men, then men will see that they can only increase their overall happiness by being with her, and not have to take care of her like a kid.

    She also would not choose a guy who is always angry, unhappy and upset, because that just would not be a good fit. She’s not interested in men that she can “save” from themselves, but men who are actualized individuals. Yes, that means a man who is not afraid to be himself, to be manly, to say what’s on his mind in a tactful and intelligent way, and to be domineering when necessary and be in a supportive role as well.

    This would be the foundation for a relationship where both people would be cooperative and supportive, but not overly demanding about each other. When problems and issues come up, instead of blaming other people, they would both look for things they can change, and if they can’t be changed, they would look for ways to resolve the issues. This is very attractive to both men and women.

    Like


  91. “When women get together, especially in mixed company, they will often speak of their men as if they were little children”

    When women (think) there are no men around they speak of their men almost exclusively as if they were small children (and with just as much affection and exasperation).
    This is the biggest single thing that Roissy misses (and why he’ll never be able to settle down even if he wants to). Straight women* are only happy in a relationship when they think they’re able to make a difference to a man (make a difference = change according to their plan). If molding their man is too easy they get bored and look for a challenge, if it’s too hard for too long they give up and look for more mouldable clay.
    The mistake men make is to think of this as wrong or evil. No, it’s just something that evolution bequeathed women (just as it bequeathed men a fondness for large breasts).

    *lesbians seem to differ though they’re not like straight or gay men either

    Like


  92. hope,

    my husband does all the things dfh talks about AND i’m aware of them AND we’ve talked about them. and they STILL work. i can’t tell you how much its made me learn about myself. i’ve become much more emotionally stable since i have a man that doesn’t coddle my whining or crying or footstamping, who isn’t afraid to tell me to stop whining when its really bullshit or to put the verbal smackdown on me when i get out of line. this makes it sound bad, but those are rare moments and always end in smokin’ makeup sex–most of the time his dominant frame makes me feel like a schoolgirl with no panties on, really girly and feminine for the first time in my life, and i’m no spring chicken. his taking charge of me has made more softer, happier and more nurturing. really–it’s the best thing that ever happened to me

    Like


  93. on August 11, 2009 at 6:00 pm Black Military Man

    Eric: Having her at your place is a sign of dominance. She is in your domain. If you’re at her apartment, you are out of place.

    And you can always kick her out of your place in the morning with a few simple words.

    “Alright, I’m kicking you out,” with a smile and a smack on the ass, “I’ve got stuff to do.”

    Me: So that’s why you never stay at her place. So she can’t treat you the way you treat her!

    Like


  94. “Never discuss money matters with your woman. She’ll love you more if in a moment of desperation you are caught stealing and thrown in jail than if you whine about having no money.”

    This might be true of STR’s but in LTR’s it’s dumb. In most of the world with traditional family oriented marriage patterns, it’s the women that make most of the household monetary decisions. Not so many countries go as far as Japan (where the husband is expected to hand over his salary and get an allowance back) but the principle is the same across too many cultures to be accidental or maladaptive – Married men let their wives make most of the household financial decisions because family-oriented women (as opposed to self-actualization-oriented women) will be more prudent in spending it.

    Like


  95. dana, I can understand that. I feel very girly and feminine with my guy. He just acts as himself, and it’s dominant and manly. He is the one with the more power, confidence and raw ability, but he doesn’t feel any need to tear me down either, as those here advocate. He says that he’d much rather build me up and make me stronger.

    Would men here actually want a woman who did not need to be “kept in line” in the first place, or would they rather keep playing the role of enforcer? Would they ever try to build up a woman’s confidence than try to make her feel inferior? For example, if Dave in Hawaii’s wife did not snap at him at gatherings or and did not try to constantly get into a power struggle with him, would he still want to “neg” her?

    Like


  96. on August 11, 2009 at 6:19 pm what boys want

    This list reads like a blueprint of my man-child!

    Too bad he had to go through a very unpleasant childhood to acquire his natural talents in being inconsiderate, unpolished, selfish and abrasive. Ah, but I love him.

    And I’d be pissed if I thought he was channeling assholery on purpose. Sad state of affairs we have here. Good luck fellas.

    Like


  97. hope, i think most men want a spirited girl and recognize the risk that might get turned on then, maintaining dominance ensures you get a girl whose spirit isn’t broken but whom you can “discipline” in some way for getting out of line.

    “Do you feel like you constantly have to be on your guard to ensure that she doesn’t start behaving in a manner that is disagreeable?” i know you asked dave, but my hub has mentioned in moments of candor that it can be a little exhausting having to maintain not only vigilance but the positive things that keep our attraction strong, like making me laugh all the time and trying to always be “on” for me. that’s why i had to learn to give him decent alone time ( we spend a LOT of time together for various reasons, so at first this was hard). he does seem to feel the results are worth it–is there really a diff between that and a woman working to maintain her figure or a non bitchy demeanor all the time?

    Like


  98. I am actually at work testing that hypothesis. I will get my woman to make as much as I do now. Anything for the furtherment of science and all and for the blog.

    Like


  99. “This list reads like a blueprint of my man-child! ”

    The poor shmuck! To be stuck with a vile creature like you.

    “dana, I can understand that. I feel very girly and feminine with my guy. He just acts as himself, and it’s dominant and manly. He is the one with the more power, confidence and raw ability, but he doesn’t feel any need to tear me down either, as those here advocate.”

    Uh ha, sure sure. If he doesn’t do it than his ass will be dumped within a few years, he can print this stash it somewhere and when you leave him dig it out and read to remind himself what kind of a tool he was.

    Like


  100. Except she will still only work about 20 days a year and yea plenty of time for me. If she gets out of line her ass will still be red. he he he

    Like


  101. @ Seeking Alpha who says, “Not true at all. I’ve already laid down the limit to what I’m willing to spend there and if I don’t like anything I can afford, we’ll continue renting.”

    Smart. Hold your guns. As you’re starting out, you might like Nassim Taleb’s observation in The Black Swan about how some couples (in the finance industry but the example extends beyond) who, when house buying, tend to buy too far up and put themselves in a house-rich/cash-poor situation. The wife looks around and compares herself to her neighbors who have that extra cash and the wife feels poor by comparison. …Yet by the definition of stretching to buy-up, this is inevitable–and the feeling will continue for as long as they keep buying further up the house scale. Far happier is the couple (i.e., less bitching the man will hear) if they buy lower and have the extra cash for vacations and the smaller, daily luxuries in life. In other words, surround yourself or put yourself in the neighborhood where YOU’RE the one that others want to be like; not the other way around. Amazing how the money arguments will lessen.

    Filed under “Wisdom I wish I had when I was in my 20’s”

    Liked by 1 person


  102. on August 11, 2009 at 6:27 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Would they ever try to build up a woman’s confidence than try to make her feel inferior? For example, if Dave in Hawaii’s wife did not snap at him at gatherings or and did not try to constantly get into a power struggle with him, would he still want to “neg” her?

    Ummm, where did you get this idea that I “tear” my wife’s confidence down? There is a huge difference between a neg and an insult. I don’t ever tear down my woman. Why would I do that? If I felt the need to tear her down, I wouldn’t respect her…and I would never be married to a woman I did not respect.

    Oh, and we do not constantly engage in power struggles.

    That only happened when I was beta-ized, and completely and totally left all the decision-making role in almost all things up to her. I didn’t realize it til much later, but by acting beta, I was provoking her content, making her fall out of attraction with me for being a spineless chump.

    Once I stopped acting that way, our relationship has become pretty much harmonious. We rarely ever fight or argue (but if we do, I consciously maintain my state…), and life is far better now that we fulfill our gender roles that the modern feminist zeitgeist says is “oppressive.”

    I find the constant struggle over power and gender roles to be far more oppressive than “having to maintain my state” of dominance.

    There is no such thing as “keeping your woman in line.”

    If a man KEEPS HIMSELF IN LINE…resists beta-izing, maintains control of his balls, and keeps his spine stiff and true to his masculine nature, his woman will keep herself in line true to her feminine nature.

    And no, my wife has no idea about any of this. Everything I’ve discovered was through my own study into game and evo/bio developed gender roles.

    Like


  103. ””Funky,
    Uh ha, sure sure. If he doesn’t do it than his ass will be dumped within a few years, he can print this stash it somewhere and when you leave him dig it out and read to remind himself what kind of a tool he was.”””’

    This would prob apply to hope but her sisters make up for her inequities.

    Like


  104. All this effort to impress a woman to have sex with you and pretend to enjoy it (you will never really know, will you?)

    While it is technically “free”, the real monetary and other costs are probably higher than getting a 200-300 $/hr escort of your choice.

    Like


  105. ””””””’MNL,
    Filed under “Wisdom I wish I had when I was in my 20’s””””””””””””

    That is why my wife rocks. She has a 30 dollar electric bill.

    And then her other bills are: 0

    So yea every dime over 30 dollars is spendable on whatever.

    Like


  106. on August 11, 2009 at 6:37 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Hope, read my first post a little more carefully…where did I say my wife “snapped?”

    My wife never “snaps” at me in front of company…and is in fact usually deferential. Since I ceased acting beta, I have never heard her refer to me as a “child” or instigate any of the sorts of conversations I often hear other women start referring to grown men as their “children.”

    Whereas, when I was acting the beta, she would regularly make such comments….and I failed those shit tests regularly. When I ceded her that authority role, I killed her attraction and built up her contempt for me.

    Some people will read about my experiences about “beta-izing” in marriage, and regularly comment that my wife is some kind of bitch, or a harridan or some other snap judgement about her. The failure was not her..it was me.

    The difference between then and now is night and day. She didn’t change…I did.

    We almost got divorced because I was no longer the man she married when we first met.

    The old joke is that women marry men with the idea of changing the man, while men marry women with the hope that they never change.

    At least the first part of that old maxim is dead wrong. What that old saying really means is: women marry men, and will continue to shit test them to see if he is in fact the dominant man they married. If he “changes” (i.e. fails these shit tests and becomes a beta chump” he reduces himself to nothing more than “provider.” in her eyes.

    And from a woman’s point of view, a man who is SOLELY a provider is beneath contempt…and deserves everything he gets coming to him should she decide to divorce him. But if the role of Provider is maintained while the role of dominant leader is upheld by the man – this is the kind of man for whom divorce and the “sexless” marriage is far less likely to happen to.

    Like


  107. The mistake men make is to think of this as wrong or evil. No, it’s just something that evolution bequeathed women (just as it bequeathed men a fondness for large breasts).

    @Cliff —

    That may well be, but that doesn’t make it any less annoying or any more appropriate.

    Like


  108. Obsidian, more power to you and your comparison. I’d be VERY interested to hear more.

    I’ve not read The Rules, but given that “game” is also somewhat of a natural antidote to the hypocritical, illogical, and unintended consequences of feminism, it would be interesting to read how they diverge AND where (if at all) they compliment each other.

    Like


  109. maintaining dominance ensures you get a girl whose spirit isn’t broken but whom you can “discipline” in some way for getting out of line.

    I guess I’ve just never seen the point in that kind of discipline. Self-discipline is sufficient. We generally don’t even have fights or arguments. We just get along. The few times that we’ve snapped at each other, we apologized immediately.

    One time we visited his parents, we were in the car, and his mom asked us about what we wanted for something. He answered for both of us. She got upset and asked, “Why don’t you let her speak for herself?” I said, “It’s fine,” and he said, “She’s a strong girl, and believe me, she will speak for herself when it matters.” Later we talked about it, and it was a demonstration in both our minds that even though he was strong and domineering, he was not controlling me or manipulating me. It’s that kind of openness that we can share which makes us stronger.

    like making me laugh all the time and trying to always be “on” for me… is there really a diff between that and a woman working to maintain her figure or a non bitchy demeanor all the time?

    I guess it depends. I maintain my body because I recognize it as a crucial component to my overall health, and when my body is in working order my thoughts and feelings are also more harmonious. I don’t do it “just” for him, and likewise he is not cracking jokes “just” for me. It’s just both of us doing what we like to do, what makes us happy, and we can share the difficult things as well as the easy, fun things. He knows he can be “off” with me and still be accepted and loved. Yes, I realize that people say that it’s “beta” to be emotionally vulnerable, but frankly I think it speaks to a powerful person to be unafraid of one’s emotions.

    I don’t ever tear down my woman. Why would I do that? If I felt the need to tear her down, I wouldn’t respect her

    I don’t know much about your backstory so my apologies if I was off. I was more or less talking about the general advice contained in this blog and the comments. Like pretending you’re not aware your girl’s around in public, beating up her cat, hinting at her being ugly, etc. I guess it seemed like you were backing it up since you said no PDA etc.

    I am glad to hear that your relationship has become more harmonious since you started studying game and so on. I don’t claim that the way my relationship works is the best way, but to hear other people (Welmer, Gunslingergregi, Funky) trash on my relationship is also tiring.

    Like


  110. I really want to print this list out and mail it to my ex, because it’s so ridiculously true!

    – NOTHING is more annoying than when a man asks you out, and when you ask him the plan he says, “I don’t know, what do you want to do?” You feel deflated, like this man has no imagination and if anything exciting is going to happen with him, you’ll have to make it happen yourself. Not hot.

    – A “sensitive guy”, who cries when you argue and lays his head in your lap while watching movies, is like having a colicky baby. A big hairy baby who farts and steals the covers. Not hot!

    – My abused rescue kitty, however, is a little ball of affection and love to everyone she meets. If I find out my date has been kicking her behind my back, not only is he out on his ass, my brothers will probably be finding him and giving him a taste of his own medicine later. Not hot!

    Everything else is great though.

    Like


  111. on August 11, 2009 at 7:09 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    @ Cliff Arroyo

    In most of the world with traditional family oriented marriage patterns, it’s the women that make most of the household monetary decisions. Not so many countries go as far as Japan (where the husband is expected to hand over his salary and get an allowance back) but the principle is the same across too many cultures to be accidental or maladaptive – Married men let their wives make most of the household financial decisions because family-oriented women (as opposed to self-actualization-oriented women) will be more prudent in spending it.

    You’re correct in letter, but not in spirit.

    In traditional environments, women do make most of the household purchasing decisions. As in, if you count up the number of decisions, she probably makes more of them.

    But they absolutely don’t make the few major financial decisions. House, cars, etc. Those are traditionally the bailiwick of the man. Always have been.

    Of course, when a man has enough experience of women, he learns a reflexive distrust of women’s motives when it comes to money.

    That reflexive distrust can sometimes lead to misunderstandings when he does meet one of America’s few remaining financially prudent, traditional women.

    It happens.

    Like


  112. on August 11, 2009 at 7:12 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    @ Hope

    I guess I’ve just never seen the point in that kind of discipline. Self-discipline is sufficient.

    In general, but especially if your man has been around the block more than a few times, your sexual relationship has no Hope (heh) of staying hot unless he’s keeping you in line.
    In every sense of that term.

    it was a demonstration in both our minds that even though he was strong and domineering, he was not controlling me or manipulating me.

    You mean “dominant”, not “domineering” (which implies controlling/irrational/manipulative).

    I only point this out because self-professed geeks are usually meticulous about word choice.

    Like


  113. really–it’s the best thing that ever happened to me

    All because you’re too stupid to think. Fuck you Dana.

    Like


  114. on August 11, 2009 at 7:18 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    All because you’re too stupid to think. Fuck you Dana.

    Glad to see you being rational while you promote “thinking”. Well played.

    Like


  115. Well put, Dave from Hawaii:

    “What that old saying really means is: women marry men, and will continue to shit test them to see if he is in fact the dominant man they married. If he “changes” (i.e. fails these shit tests and becomes a beta chump” he reduces himself to nothing more than “provider.” in her eyes. ”

    Roissy’s bullets are great. Even if a couple of them are a bit tongue-in-cheek, the point is: Don’t become beta-ized. Maintain your independence. Hold frame. Subtly communicate you have options. Keep the mystery, etc., etc.

    Fact is, there’s a subtle process in any LTR by which the woman will (mostly subconsciously) attempt to beta-ize her man. She’ll try to get him to adopt an acquiescent frame. She’ll work to control aspects of his behavior–and more importantly–key parts of his “male” attitude. You of the forum who are less than 22 years old or who consider that three-month relationship you had in college “long-term”, likely haven’t seen this through, but the process certainly begins then.

    Some say the evolutionary basis for this female behavior is to make the man less attractive to other, competing mates; to ensure he sticks around and fulfills his provider role–for the next nine months or beyond.

    But either way, it’s strangely ironic. It’s ironic because the more the woman succeeds in this goal, the less happy she is in the LTR! The less the man resembles the one she first fell for back at the start of the LTR!

    The successful LTR man MUST resist the beta-izing process. You’ve got to recognize shit tests, learn to keep game in your mind, to resist beta-ization, in short… to project all the qualities that led her (and other women!) to find you attractive in the first place.

    This sounds easy in theory, but it’s doubly, triply tough in practice and over time because–admit it guys–most of us are lazy and task-focused. If your woman is late or subtly diss’s you, it’s not worth the hassle of starting an argument. If your woman nags you to do something, we often would just rather do the damn task to stop the nagging and so we can get back to the X-box that much faster. …But over time, this passivity is exactly part of the beta-ization.

    To maintain attraction, you absolutely MUST maintain game, keep the mystery and a playful attitude, and also wise-ass responses to shit tests. (Or quickly admit when you’re wrong and move on, as DFH says). For example, I love Roosh’s comment to the monologue responses or, even better, Chris’ comments about needing a beer to endure it any further. My own favorite: When my wife starts with the monologue or complaint, I cut her off and tell her I can only listen if she’s giving me a massage or scratching my back at the same time. Next time, I think l’ll also ask for a ham sandwich.

    Like


  116. Always acting aloof like what she’s talking about doesn’t really matter that much, if any of my girls nag me or start going on a rant, I do kind of what Roosh spoke of above (act like I’m listening and then act confused when she finishes, asking me a question or waiting for a response).

    I don’t know why this works, but I have been doing this since high school before I started to learn game, I have always done this on purpose.

    Results: it makes the woman think she is competing for your attention with *something.* This is key, they will fight for your attention if it is scarce. That is how you give something value, by making it scarce and seem like it is a reward for certain behavior, and not a given.

    That way, when they get my attention, they are very appreciative of it (increases attraction). A positive byproduct on the side is that they start to think about what they share with you and it starts to become more important information as she knows that you won’t be her emotional tampon.

    This way, I can fuck the girl while she calls some other sap whom she’s not fucking to talk about her bullshit with.

    Like


  117. interesting response

    Like


  118. on August 11, 2009 at 7:26 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    If your woman is late or subtly diss’s you, it’s not worth the hassle of starting an argument.

    If you handle it correctly, it shouldn’t “start an argument”. In fact, if an argument even lasts long enough to be called an argument, that’s a problem.
    (This should not be mistaken for saying that she sometimes won’t pout or fume for certain periods.)

    If your woman nags you to do something, we often would just rather do the damn task to stop the nagging and so we can get back to the X-box that much faster. …But over time, this passivity is exactly part of the beta-ization.

    Heh. Really?

    Some of us were exposed to so much female nagging as kids that we just reflexively quell anything that even resembles nagging.
    Nerd translation: You guys commit the Type II errors (letting the nagging slide), while we’re more likely to commit Type I errors (occasionally stomping out honestly constructive comments just because they’re obliquely reminiscent of nagging).

    But yeah, not only do I not tolerate nagging, I can’t even imagine tolerating it. Not even in a thought experiment. Fuck that noise.

    Like


  119. Here is another LTR Game tip:

    When she hurts herself in a harmless but painful way, like bumping her head or stubbing her toe, or even if you accidentally hurt her*, don’t rush to her with a “You OK?!”

    Wait a beat or two, wait for her surge of pain to finish its first rush, and only then ask her if she is OK or go ahead and otherwise comfort her.

    (* you get one free pass per LTR. She’s supposed to feel safe with you. So don’t be a klutz.)

    Like


  120. on August 11, 2009 at 7:35 pm Dave from Hawaii

    This sounds easy in theory, but it’s doubly, triply tough in practice and over time because–admit it guys–most of us are lazy and task-focused. If your woman is late or subtly diss’s you, it’s not worth the hassle of starting an argument. If your woman nags you to do something, we often would just rather do the damn task to stop the nagging and so we can get back to the X-box that much faster. …But over time, this passivity is exactly part of the beta-ization.

    While I found this hard at first as well…after about three years of doing this, I find it is starting to come to me without even thinking.

    When I get a “shit” test, I actually start to relish the moment, as I already know what is going on, and that responding correctly is in fact going to have very positive results.

    I actually mentally smile at the opportunity to “game” her.

    After awhile, the cocky/funny shit just rolls off my tongue without thinking…

    From a conversation the other night:

    {Upon mentally deciding to “play asshole game” with the wife}

    ME: Cook me dinner woman!

    HER: Say please!

    ME: Yes, it will please you to cook for me!

    HER: If you want me to do something for you, you can at least act nicely towards me!

    ME: Don’t worry dear, I’ll give you all the nice you can handle after dinner… {smacks her on the ass on the way to the whiskey bar to pour myself a drink while I wait for her to cook for me.}

    She rolls her eyes at me, turns around, and begins cooking a fantastic dinner…while I drink whiskey, smoke a cigar and watch football on TV.

    Life is good when you get game.

    Like


  121. on August 11, 2009 at 7:37 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    When she hurts herself in a harmless but painful way, like bumping her head or stubbing her toe, or even if you accidentally hurt her*, don’t rush to her with a “You OK?!”

    Heh.

    I usually just stare for a sec, with the same expression a father might wear if his son had just struck out for the third straight time in a Little League game.

    Sometimes I’ll kiss the “wound”, with loving, soothing terms of endearment (dumbass, klutz, etc.)

    Good times

    Like


  122. on August 11, 2009 at 7:51 pm Black Military Man

    “When she hurts herself in a harmless but painful way, like bumping her head or stubbing her toe, or even if you accidentally hurt her*, don’t rush to her with a “You OK?!”

    That’s what my wife always told me to do with the kids when they were little and hurt themselves. Ignore them. Have you ever noticed with babies and toddlers that they only cry when someone NOTICES that they fell down or bumped themselves? Otherwise they get back up and it’s business as usual.

    I don’t know guys, call me old school, but all these “games” would wear both me and my wife out. We just keep it real with each other and guess what? We’re more in love now than we were 17 years ago when we first met.

    Like


  123. @gunny – “If your alpha enough you can just tell her to leave the cat out in a hurricane talking to you is more important.”

    Wow! That’s alpha. 😉

    Like


  124. Glad to see you being rational while you promote “thinking”. Well played.

    I’m tired of that “he makes me feel submissive and girly”. Grow up and act like a fucking adult.

    Like


  125. on August 11, 2009 at 8:01 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Grow up and act like a fucking adult

    Pot, meet kettle.

    Like


  126. on August 11, 2009 at 8:05 pm Black Military Man

    Epoxytocin No. 87: “In general, but especially if your man has been around the block more than a few times, your sexual relationship has no Hope (heh) of staying hot unless he’s keeping you in line.
    In every sense of that term.”

    Me: How old are you and have you ever been married?

    If you have to keep a woman “in line” – dump her.

    As a happily and successfully married man in his 40s I can assure you that a functional marriage is one in which both the partners are mature and straightforward adults.

    Like


  127. Dave from Hawaii – your “make me dinner woman” game sounds EXACTLY like something my naturally Alpha friend would do with his wife.

    As I’ve said before, he is the only friend I know with a marriage that appears to be worth a shit.

    Like


  128. Pot, meet kettle.

    Yeah game may work, but you’re indulging the behaviour of a child. Personally, I would have left.

    Like


  129. “Personally, I would have left.”

    Well there would have been the possibility of sex with an actual woman, so we kind of figured you’d be out of there.

    Like


  130. on August 11, 2009 at 8:15 pm Dave from Hawaii

    DT – I don’t consider myself a “natural…” but in retrospect, I have come to realize that this attitude…this demeanor, is precisely how my Grandfather used to act towards my Grandmother (my Dad’s parents).

    And my domineering, overbearing Mother used to tell my brothers and I how my Grandfather as “abusive” and a “terrible husband.”

    That’s one of the reasons I think it took me so long to “de-program” from the feminist mindset…and also why my Dad has been so utterly pussy whipped.

    He spent his entire life in this culture and by marrying a very strong-willed, modern and highly educated “empowered” woman like my mom, all reinforcing the notion that my Grandfather’s natural alpha dominant behavior was “abusive and domineering.”

    I laugh at the thought now…my Dad spent his whole life trying not to be like his own Father…and my Mom has utterly turned into a total domineering, controlling harridan/nagger that has complete contempt for my dad as a man….

    …while I’ve spent the past three years actively trying not to be like my own father and more like my Grandfather.

    When I use phrases like “Cook me dinner, woman!” I actually here my Grandfather’s voice in my mind…

    Like


  131. you equate soft and feminine and not a cunt with being a child? you people read weird

    Like


  132. on August 11, 2009 at 8:18 pm Black Military Man

    ” If your woman is late or SUBTLY DISS’S you, it’s not worth the hassle of starting an argument.”

    Definetly not worth arguing. She’s just negging you.

    Game recognizes game and salutes accordingly.

    Like


  133. on August 11, 2009 at 8:23 pm Epoxytocin No. 87

    Dave

    I laugh at the thought now…my Dad spent his whole life trying not to be like his own Father…and my Mom has utterly turned into a total domineering, controlling harridan/nagger that has complete contempt for my dad as a man….

    What has kept them together? Extreme external pressure from family, etc?

    Like


  134. @ Dave from Hawaii…

    “When I get a “shit” test, I actually start to relish the moment, as I already know what is going on, and that responding correctly is in fact going to have very positive results.

    I actually mentally smile at the opportunity to “game” her.”

    You’re spot-on! You’ve got to think of it as a challenge, immediately recognize it as an opportunity. Inside, you then get this smug, shit-eating grin that says, “I’m going to ace this”, and then proceed to do so. Often, the sexual fireworks follow that evening. I had that very feeling this afternoon.

    Still though, and speaking entirely for myself, when I’m tired or lazy my knee-jerk response is to take the situation at face value. (I think this logical, face-value take on the world and all things feminine is another male tendency.) I then find myself 10-seconds into it thinking, “Damn! Fooled again. Where’s tech support?”

    Like


  135. on August 11, 2009 at 8:28 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Religion.

    To put it succinctly, my Dad is a chivalrous, white knight Christian that is the living embodiment of the right wing, religious men’s attitude of “women are angels, men are pigs.”

    I don’t understand how he’s maintained that attitude for so long, when my mom has been anything but an angel…but they are both probably more committed to church than they are to each other.

    Like


  136. @ Epoxytocin No. 87

    If you handle it correctly, it shouldn’t “start an argument”. In fact, if an argument even lasts long enough to be called an argument, that’s a problem.

    I think you’re exactly right. If you get lax and mentally categorize the interaction as something that will “start an argument,” then you’ve already lost. As in all shit tests, there’s a particular way to respond that bypasses this and better addresses the issue.

    Like


  137. on August 11, 2009 at 8:34 pm Dave from Hawaii

    If you get lax and mentally categorize the interaction as something that will “start an argument,” then you’ve already lost.

    An even better way to think of this is:

    Are you living in fear of your woman’s emotional state?

    If you are, you’re being beta.

    Like


  138. Another “Best of” post.

    I actually believe that maintaining a relationship is a woman’s job – and they usually are very good at it. Female instinct is to keep a Provider by any means so he can help raise those brats. Especially so if he is not a low beta or omega in social status. So in order to lose a girl you really need to screw up big time.

    But many guys soften up after dating girls for a while. You can see them climb down the social status latter with every day passing by in a relationship.

    Like


  139. Nice posts!

    One thing Roissy didn’t talk about though is walking together/entering doors.

    Most guys are in the habit of “ladies first” and will open the door for you when entering a building, entering a taxi, going in exiting an elevator, etc.

    What weirds me out though is when a guy I’m with does “ladies first” *too much* for some reason. With a stranger I feel all good, especially if they don’t do that to other girls (LOL). With a guy I’m with though it feels way to… submissive?

    Also, I don’t like when a guy I’m with (again, not a stranger or acquaintance) makes me do “ladies first” when we’re walking through a crowd or into another room. A guy has actually pushed me through the crowd before when I just stopped and looked at him all confused (my attempt to get him to step up and lead). When he pushed me it helped a little with the “Ew” feeling, but I still felt weird. Why wouldn’t he just grab me by the hand and drag me behind him like a Flintstone?

    I like a gentleman, but not too much… where’s the balance?

    Like


  140. Roosh

    Spacing out while she delivers a monologue. Let her talk for a while and then say, “Say what?”

    This happens more or less automatically while I’m eating. I get super-focused on the food, and tune out the prattle, then a while later I’ll see her pouting.

    “You didn’t listen to a word I said!”

    (shrug) “I was eating.”

    Like


  141. on August 11, 2009 at 8:38 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Obsidian,

    The Rules, of course, is nothing compared to MM or other elements of Game. Not only is ‘The Rules’ about 10 years old, but it can do nothing about the fact that a woman’s looks are the main thing that determines her social status. A woman who is a 5 will not get that far relative to a 9, even with total mastery of ‘The Rules’.

    At ‘best’, The Rules is merely a guide for a woman on how to manipulate a total suck-up Beta. Any man who already knows that jumping through hoops for a woman is exactly the opposite of what makes her attracted to a man, will not fall for this.

    The Rules is merely a shit test, nothing more.

    Like


  142. Dave from Hawaii – I went back and read the rest of your posts. Good stuff.

    I find that how I view shit tests depends entirely on my mood. If I’m feeling confident then I enjoy them. Rather, I enjoy tossing them right back at the girl. If I’m not feeling all that confident then they annoy me because I start to fear that I will screw up. I over analyze them rather than just acting like a cocky funny smart ass.

    Inner game and the cold approach are two areas where I still struggle to improve.

    Like


  143. “Don’t ponder your decisions out loud. Women hate indecisive men, even when that indecisiveness leads to better choices. As gina tinglers go, it’s preferable to make a wrong decision than to make no decision. ”

    I agreed with almost all of the list (exception cat) but the one above is On The Money. I H A T E indecisive men. I had a smart engineer, great kisser boyfriend who couldn’t even decide what truck he wanted to buy let alone what to do on dates – it killed it for me. We saw each other about six times before I realized I couldn’t handle it. Oh and his wife still lived in his home because he didn’t have the balls to ask her to leave despite the fact she had a boyfriend – so ya that might have played a part too. He still emails occasionally hoping I’ve changed my mind – nope I’m pretty decisive thanks.

    Like


  144. lovelysexybeauty – ouch, that really hits home. I’ve noticed that I have a bad habit of letting the girl go first too often.

    Like


  145. FYI Roissy, no one who uses a circular saw calls it a circular saw. Call it a skill saw and your women might believe that you’ve used one before. See, you educate me and I educate you. Isn’t life great.

    Like


  146. on August 11, 2009 at 8:42 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Again, the very premise that ‘The Rules’ can even be compared to MM or other sorts of Game is itself giving ‘The Rules’ far too much credit.

    There are no seminars, blogs, or communities for ‘The Rules’. There is no market for it.

    ‘The Rules’ is merely a guide on how to throw shit tests onto a man. A man who knows how to dodge such tests, thereby sidesteps ‘The Rules’. This also means that about 10% of MM that deals with passing such tests already negates ‘The Rules’ totally.

    Thus, ‘The Rules’ only works against the most supplicating Beta. Even then, a 5 with The Rules will never have as many men attracted to her as an 8 with no such knowledge.

    Like


  147. @tarl – “I get super-focused on the food, and tune out the prattle, then a while later I’ll see her pouting.”

    Are you overweight? I’ve noticed this amongst people who are fatter than the norm – they really pay attention to their food.

    Like


  148. on August 11, 2009 at 8:46 pm The Fifth Horseman

    LSB,

    With a guy I’m with though it feels way to… submissive?

    Exactly. Avoiding these little chivalrous gestures is the best way to run the very effective ‘asshole Game’ without actually saying anything rude or vulgar.

    It should be called ‘Absence of Chivalry Game’, which itself is effective is a version of ‘Asshole Game’.

    Like


  149. on August 11, 2009 at 8:49 pm Dave from Hawaii

    DT – “Inner Game” is precisely it.

    When I first started changing my behavior, I had to consciously think of everything I said and did. It was difficult at first.

    But the more you consciously do these things, and the more you see how it works positively in your relationship, the easier it gets.

    When I first began “gaming” her, I was still afraid of her emotional state…I found game a means of not bringing out her anger or disappointment.

    Now, however, I’ve truly developed the mindset of having NO fear of my woman’s emotional state.

    While I don’t disagree at all with Epoxytocin’s statement:

    “If you handle it correctly, it shouldn’t “start an argument”.

    My addendum to that is….

    So what if it does start an argument? Are you afraid to argue with her? Why are you afraid of her emotional state?

    Once I realized this mindset, and internalized it, everything started to become second nature.

    As a beta-ized husband, I lived in constant fear of upsetting her…fear of her dissaproval…fear of her tears. I used to think of lies to tell her about things that were not even wrong, just to try and avoid making her mad with me.
    This was when we were at our worst.

    At the beach, back in the “beta” days:

    HER: “I see you looking at that chic in the G-string!”

    ME: “I was not! Honestly honey, I only have eyes for you!”

    We both know I was lying…and she would get upset, and not speak to me and we’d end up getting into an argument that ruined the entire day. Ironic isn’t it…by lying to her to try and avoid conflict, I actually made it much worse.

    Now?

    HER: “I see you looking at her!”

    ME: “She’s hot, isn’t she?”

    Like


  150. OMG Batshit crazy, thy name is woman!

    http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1918771

    Like


  151. @ lovelysexybeauty

    Hmm, I kind of see what you’re saying — if he’s always opening doors for you, etc., it can start to seem like he’s catering to your every whim and/or putting you on some sort of pedestal.

    The guy can totally be chivalrous and dominant, though.

    In my boyfriend’s world, girls aren’t allowed to open their own doors.

    Really. And if I even try, he just puts me over his knee.

    @ aoefe

    Are you overweight? I’ve noticed this amongst people who are fatter than the norm – they really pay attention to their food.

    Yo…not all of us people who deeply enjoy food are overweight. According to some people, I eat like a boy (I don’t speak while I’m eating b/c I’m focused on eating, I don’t put food down between bites, etc.)…so…yeah.

    Haha, although, I suppose I am “overweight,” according to some.

    Like


  152. Are you overweight? I’ve noticed this amongst people who are fatter than the norm – they really pay attention to their food.

    Nah. I work out a lot, and by the time dinner rolls around I’m usually ravenous.

    Like


  153. on August 11, 2009 at 9:02 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Dave in Hawaii wrote :

    HER: “I see you looking at her!”

    ME: “She’s hot, isn’t she?”

    I’d take it further, such as :

    HER: “I see you looking at her!”

    ME: “Yep, she is a pretty one. It is just too sad that female beauty fades so quickly. “

    Like


  154. on August 11, 2009 at 9:07 pm Dave from Hawaii

    @ aoefe

    Are you overweight? I’ve noticed this amongst people who are fatter than the norm – they really pay attention to their food.

    Au contraire, aoefe, for some of us, we are not overweight, and in shape precisely because we pay very close attention to our food.

    Like


  155. calm down Tood

    I´d rather say: “you looked first! I wouldn´t be with you if I knwe you were a lesbian”

    Like


  156. on August 11, 2009 at 9:11 pm Dave from Hawaii

    “Yep, she is a pretty one. It is just too sad that female beauty fades so quickly. “

    While this is good, I like mine better, because I immediately set the frame to where no matter what she says, I ‘win.’

    Either she agrees with me…or she disagrees.

    If she agrees, we’ll ogle together, and she’ll try to point out her faults, while I get to continue to focus on her assets, enjoying the eye candy with her cooperation.

    But if she disagrees, she’ll usually say something along the lines of “what’s wrong with you?”

    This is even better, because than I get neg her…

    “Of course I have terrible taste in women, why do you think I married you?”

    Like


  157. Foodwise, I don’t pay a whole lot of attention to the science of nutrition because it sounds so damn complicated. I eat plenty of meat, fruits, etc. Generally I trust my wife’s cooking, and with good reason, as we both look good and healthy. Plus I work out.

    The one thing I do keep as a rule though is no sodas (Coke, Sprite, etc) — haven’t had a sip since 1998, no candy, candy bars potato chips, etc.

    My one nutrition vice: beer, though mostly on weekends. But an ascetic’s life is not for.

    Like


  158. “Yep, she is a pretty one. It is just too sad that female beauty fades so quickly. “

    I thought this souned unnecessarily bitter and confrontational. Like a mood killer.

    Like


  159. Dave from hawaii

    What you and PA miss, and we deeply need in this blog, is someone who can teach us marriage-game with kids

    you can´t slap her ass in front of your teenaged children for example. I bet that sex life risks disappearing once the kids start walking, specially when they are able to poen doors.

    Like


  160. Why is beating women wrong? It is fun.

    Like


  161. At a party you should always socialize and be comfortable with any situation. Same with going to the mall or shopping. Do not tag along or follow her. Do your thing and she will come to you. If she doesn’t then fuck it go flirt with another girl.

    Like


  162. on August 11, 2009 at 9:23 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Well gig…since I don’t have kids, I can’t really comment…but I’ll say this much: why wouldn’t you slap her ass in front of your kids?

    Show them EXACTLY how a functional, complimentary, symmetrical male/female relationship works by example…isn’t that how “naturals” are made? By being raised and influenced around father figures that show them how to interact with the opposite sex? As I wrote earlier, while my Dad is a chivalrous beta white knight, I did have my Grandfather’s example…and yes, I even recall my Grandfather smacking my Grandmothers ass in front of us grandkids (LMAO…I thought it was “gross” while my mom literally had a conniption fit after we left their house…telling us kids how my Grandfather was such a terrible man.)

    While I don’t have kids, I do plan on it soon…and when that day comes where the kids are around – one thing I know for sure – while she will be the kid’s mother, she WILL NOT BE MINE. She will be my wife. I will not let her act like my mother for even one second. The minute she tried to treat me like a kid, I would nip that shit in the bud.

    Like


  163. Mariage-game with kids: I am now in uncharted waters but solid Game principles are universal. The frame to keep is that the husband and wife come first. And that the boy needs an alpha dad’s good example.

    Like


  164. The one thing I do keep as a rule though is no sodas (Coke, Sprite, etc) — haven’t had a sip since 1998, no candy, candy bars potato chips, etc.

    My one nutrition vice: beer, though mostly on weekends. But an ascetic’s life is not for.

    my diet also. but my vice is whiskey, not beer.

    Like


  165. Marriage is for chumps who have no game and want pussy security. God knows what the fuck that means. I will gladly bang any wife and not feel guilty. I take pleasure in destroying family values and satisfying your wife… Double points for finances since they still decided to marry your beta ass after a rigorous “reevaluation of her priorities.”

    Dominant = Do what you want with a vengeance. Regret is for losers who have no balls.

    Like


  166. on August 11, 2009 at 9:33 pm Black Military Man

    “Mariage-game with kids: I am now in uncharted waters but solid Game principles are universal. The frame to keep is that the husband and wife come first.”

    I disagree. Kids not coming first is the reason for so much divorce. I didn’t marry for a woman. I had access to women and sex BEFORE marriage. I married because I wanted to have a FAMILY. My personal happiness and my wife’s personal happiness is secondary to the happiness of our children.

    Like


  167. on August 11, 2009 at 9:35 pm Dave from Hawaii

    You calling guys like PA and I chumps?

    *yawn*

    Being the internet “tough guy” is about as predictable and mind numbingly boring as the femtards and liberal manginas that come here spouting off on how everyone here is ‘misogynist’ and “hate women.”

    Like


  168. Fifth Horseman –

    Hey! Rules have weekly support groups (multiples), coaches, MULTIPLE online forums, seminars (available on DVD and CD too), and other items. There was a conference call tonight even!

    The authors of the Rules greatly encourage support groups and originally hosted many of them, including online forums. I remember back when they stopped hosting their own online forum, how competing forums came up on all different sites. It was interesting seeing the different Rules Girls “camps.”

    AND… that’s just the Rules. I’ve heard of support groups for He’s Just Not that Into You, the Dr. Laura Schlesinger books, Why Men Marry Bitches, Getting to I Do, and the Mars Venus stuff.

    Like


  169. on August 11, 2009 at 10:05 pm Black Military Man

    HER: “I see you looking at her!”

    ME: “She’s hot, isn’t she?”

    BLACK MILITARY MAN: It’s a shame WE don’t hang out at the beach all that much. Your wives would then not even notice where you looked. LOL. There’s interacial alpha-beta co-operation for you – just what America needs!

    Like


  170. kids are a reason why people should marry early

    you can always dump them on your parents. and dave, seriously, I have never seen ahusband, no matter how alpha, slap his wife´s ass in public. A better example would be that you can´t finger her in the living room if there are walking children around

    Like


  171. @Hope –

    I think you summed up the main value of the Rules very well. 🙂 Some of it is very obvious stuff, some of it is more to help “doormat” girls who will throw themselves at men.

    I’ve read all of the Rules books (I, II, Online Dating, Marriage), I’ve been reading the forums off and on for years, I’ve listened to multiple old recordings of seminars, and I attend the conference calls (sometimes with the actual authors answering questions) every so often.

    The Rules back when they were written were shaped both by the publisher those ladies got, along with the times. Back in the 1990s, women were even less feminine than they are today – these were the original products of the feminizing ‘girl power’ education that .

    The original Rules as written are so strict that maybe 1% of women would get a husband they’re happy with if they followed them.

    The author who got divorced herself even broke a few rules leading up to her second marriage!

    I can talk about the Rules forever, I think some of it is good some of it is bad… by the way, the stuff that came up later that’s NOT written in the books is way more helpful and isn’t so silly.

    Example of how the Rules do help some women is from this Sundays’ conference call:

    Caller: a guy I’ve been chatting with on match.com told me he wants to exclusively date only him, before he agrees to meet. Is that OK? We haven’t even spoken on the phone, but I really like his profile.

    Rules Advice: What? No way! You haven’t even seen him face to face yet. He needs to ask out within 4 emails, otherwise he’s not that into you. Work on improving your looks, lose weight, get the best haircut possible, etc. and get new photos up on that online site. There is no reason to exclusively only talk to him before you’ve even met him.

    Yes, some girls out there are THAT clueless and need the Rules.

    Like


  172. Dave and PA are playing it easy. both have wifes that are much younger and/or younger looking

    I want to know real game, professional game, game when your wife i over 40 and your kids have entered puberty

    Becasue as far as I can see my future, there is a divorce then even though I´ll have hidden most of my assets since the first day.

    Like


  173. I want to respect the host of this blog and not go off topic, but I don’t think the Rules should be dismissed entirely. Some parts of it are valuable, some are just dumb – and again, I think are more there to help doormat girls who need a very strict “rule” to not just throw themselves at men or be available for booty calls, who then wonder why they don’t have a steady boyfriend.

    Good Rules:
    – Be a creature unlike any other (a.k.a. look as hot as possible, lose weight, be sweet, don’t be a b*tch)
    – DON’T TELL HIM WHAT TO DO
    – LET HIM TAKE THE LEAD
    – DONT EXPECT A MAN TO CHANGE OR TRY TO CHANGE HIM
    – Even if you’re engaged or married, you still need the rules (a.k.a. don’t turn into a psycho controlling fatso b*tch once you got the ring on your finger)
    – Love only those you love you
    – Be easy to live with
    – Don’t waste time on fantasy relationships
    – Don’t be the rebound girl
    – Show up even if you don’t feel like it (a.k.a. if you want to meet a man you need to actually go out)
    – Post a smiling photo
    – Don’t ad-interrogate on dates
    – Write light and breezy e-mails (a.k.a. don’t talk the guy’s ear off, it’s not free therapy)

    “Bad” Rules:
    – Always end phone calls first
    – Don’t call him and rarely return his calls (a.k.a. never ever calling him is silly, but in the beginning yes, a woman shouldn’t call him any time she just feels like it it will be annoying)
    – Don’t accept a Saturday Night Date after Wednesday (the infamous one! Out of 70+ rules why do people always focus on this one)

    The above are verbatim from the books OK.

    Like


  174. The King
    Beating on women is like showing off a tiny, flaccid dick. Is that “bad”?
    Not my problem.

    Like


  175. @ Tarl

    Nah. I work out a lot, and by the time dinner rolls around I’m usually ravenous.

    I definitely feel you there.

    Like


  176. By the way, I agree with LIL Girl – a guy can do the little courtesies and still be dominant. It’s when he overdoes them to where he’s like running up to open the car door that it starts to seem beta. It should be natural, in fact opening the door and giving her a little push (like you’re guiding her) could be good.

    Also, about girl game… I’ve set if before and I’ll say it again – at each level of looks, there are MILLIONS of women. There are MILLIONS of 8s, 9s, and 10s out there.

    Men can choose from millions and millions of women at each level of beauty, right? So what makes one girl different form another if a guy is the marrying type?

    Her essence, no? If there are two equally beautiful 9s, who will a guy pick? The girl who is feminine, and sweet, and pleasant, or the b*tch? That’s girl game. The end.

    Like


  177. “and dave, seriously, I have never seen ahusband, no matter how alpha, slap his wife´s ass in public.”
    You’ve never seen my parents in public. =X

    Like


  178. @ lsb

    i get you on the rules thing. haven’t read it (figured i knew how to do the whole girl-game (sorry obs) thing, so what i should focus on was what the other side was learning…hence, my foray into the pua side of things), but from what i’ve heard it’s just about as ridiculous (to make a point) as pua stuff is ridiculous (to make a point).

    a girl who follows the rules to the letter would be like a guy who follows pua stuff to the letter. srsly can you imagine? eh, you don’t have to — i’ve met quite a few guys who are just starting out in pua and who follow pua advice TO A TEE…it’s kind of…hehe…weird.

    anyway, yeah some of the rules are ridiculous, some pua stuff is ridiculous…yeah. i think the key here, ppl, is to know the basics, be flexible, and go with the flow. i can see how it’s hard to do that if you’re here b/c you like the scientific nature of game/attraction science/etc, but that’s the only way you’re going to succeed. all about reading ppl, calibrating, not sticking to some ridiculous plan b/c neil strauss “told you to” (neil didn’t tell you crap). i have lots of thoughts on this but if texting while driving is illegal, typing on a lappy while driving is probably frowned upon as well.

    Like


  179. @ tood

    I’d take it further, such as :

    HER: “I see you looking at her!”

    ME: “Yep, she is a pretty one. It is just too sad that female beauty fades so quickly. “

    er…yeah…you killed it. definitely. killed it dead. i like dave’s, sry.

    also, what’s up with your new alias? are you a lvl 10 mage? are you playing dungeons n dragons? do your fellow guild members call you “the bringer of doom”?

    i liked ‘tood’. it was cute. made me think of toad from mario.

    dude, this highway is so totally wireless.

    Like


  180. LilGRL, for the sake of your safety and those of others, please wait until you are NOT driving to type. What you have to say can definitely wait.

    Much love, girlie.

    Like


  181. @ LILGIRL

    lol! And i thought my work day sneaks on to this site were tough to navigate! 🙂 Careful out there 😉

    Completely agree with you about people, male or female, who follow game advice too literally without any sort of flexibility or mastery of the underlying concept.

    Arpagus clarified it on another thread a bit: there is strategy and then there are tactic.

    I think the underlying spirit of game advice is what really needs to come across to those who wish to master it, and the actual ways to do that (the tactics?) will vary with time, place, people etc. Specific tactics and routines will help someone starting out, but if someone never deviates from the script there are many situations in which they will fail.

    Yes, the same old tired routine or magic trick will fail, but if someone gets the idea of keeping a girl’s interest and making her think, then he can come up with new routines all the time.

    @ Hope and Dave Hawaii

    I think I get what Hope was trying to mm… get at in terms of some men actually liking the challenge of overcoming a woman’s sh*t tests, and overpowering her attempts to beta-ize him.

    I wonder if some men would actually prefer the hot 9 b*tch over the hot 9 sweet and feminine girl I gave an example of. Maybe he’d feel it brings out his best game? Whereas a naturally submissive and sweet girl would be too easy to tame? Hm….

    Very very tricky this all is… 🙂

    Like


  182. heh, no worries, i have 5k177z.

    the question is — if you throw a panasonic toughbook out the window of a car going 75+ mph on the highway…will it survive?

    (answer: actually, yeah, it should be able to survive that just fine. SWT.)

    Like


  183. Through some odd circumstance I have found myself in the ass-backward hand holding position once or twice, and the chick will ALWAYS quickly reverse it.

    “gay microdog”. Hilarious.

    Like


  184. Another interesting thing to observe with a chick is whether or not SHE chooses the seat facing the door when you get seated in a restaurant. Most chicks instinctively defer that seat to the man. Are they more submissive? More aware?

    Like


  185. A guy I’ve been dating for four months has done all of the above to me. I doubt he reads this blog or reads books about attracting women because he’s already very attractive himself.

    I wonder if he’s just a natural alpha or if he reads blogs like this that tell him to behave a certain way.

    Either way, after 4 months, I don’t think this type of behavior is the way to go. I’ve already started losing interest in him precisely because he acts like the above. I want to know a guy’s interest level. If he’s interested, then I’m interested.

    If he acts like the above, then it signals to me “I’M NOT THAT INTERESTED IN YOU.” (which is why I behave the way I do). Therefore, I leave.

    Like


  186. on August 12, 2009 at 12:18 am Cannon's Canon

    Off topic: I was playing basketball outside tonight in Ann Arbor. As I approached the court, I saw a white female behemoth standing and watching next to a short black man. The man appeared very short and slightly misshapen; I assumed some crippling physical impediment. The woman was a true whale, possibly comparing unfavorably to Cigstache. Her neck was fatter than her head and cascaded as a trapezoid toward her blubbery body. I was impressed to note she walked without a cane, as I was certain she would qualify as handicapped. Her MC Hammer mumu-pants were form-fitting toward the waistline, which was graciously covered by a ragged size 7xl t-shirt that even Cheese from The Wire could not pull off fashionably. I made no remark of their race, because they were both, categorically, just “retarded.”

    Imagine my surprise when this guy got on and showed the poise, speed, and handle requisite to a point guard. He was one of the best players on the court, and I quickly ruled out classifiable mental retardation. While he certainly was not a handsome man, his athleticism and confidence implied a base virility for the sexual marketplace. He could surely fuck 2s or 3s with ease.

    Then it dawned on me… My God! GNP has been preaching the straight truth, not that I ever doubted it. Here was a black man scraping the absolute nadir of the barrel. By keeping such a vile beast sexually relevant, he removes the need for this fatso and such phenotypes before her to improve themselves at all! This was not mere “retard love” as I’d first suspected, but rather, a black man’s willingness to make love to a veritable retard. I shook my head in disappointment at this act of terrorism against the white man’s well-being.

    Like


  187. roissy ? you told one of you girls you were going to try a hand holding experiment?
    i laughed at that . literally laughed.

    anyway i can seem to remember if his hand is above mine . i think his hand is a bit heavy if i put mine over his . but i think that we hold hands and no ones hand is on top . they are kind of just side by side . i can t explain .

    how horrific . i couldnt last with a guy that didnt give me the remote .
    and i love the sensitive guys . im serious about that .
    but PLEASE no crying . thats not sensitive . thats pathetic and it makes me cringe .

    Like


  188. On the radio, they were discussing “what women want” (in general, not the movie). And one caller said this:

    “Well the two things I really look for is a guy that can make me laugh and who has an easy going personality.”

    Host: “Oh so you want a funny guy, someone who can keep you entertained? Laughing, no crying?”

    “Yes I want him to be nice and keep me excited.”

    Then, these words came out like vomit:

    “But crying? I don’t want him to cry. He can’t be a little bitch about everything!”

    Like


  189. on August 12, 2009 at 12:59 am The Fifth Horseman

    LSB,

    Ok, let’s see about the Rules.

    – Be a creature unlike any other (a.k.a. look as hot as possible, lose weight, be sweet, don’t be a b*tch)
    – DON’T TELL HIM WHAT TO DO
    – LET HIM TAKE THE LEAD
    – DONT EXPECT A MAN TO CHANGE OR TRY TO CHANGE HIM
    – Even if you’re engaged or married, you still need the rules (a.k.a. don’t turn into a psycho controlling fatso b*tch once you got the ring on your finger)
    – Be easy to live with
    – Don’t waste time on fantasy relationships

    100% superb rules. Every man would greatly encourage all of these rules. So why aren’t more women following these rules?

    AND…..

    These suggestions are precisely what feminists don’t like. So is the ‘Rules’ now in opposition to radical feminists?

    – Always end phone calls first
    – Don’t accept a Saturday Night Date after Wednesday (the infamous one! Out of 70+ rules why do people always focus on this one)

    These are also what Game teaches men to do, except these are very, very basic tactics. These are general tactics of ‘putting a price on yourself’ that sales manuals have taught for a long time.

    But again, even the ‘bad rules’ would only work on a man with ZERO game. A man who has even the slightest Game will not be affected by these quite elementary tricks.

    Like


  190. I think I get what Hope was trying to mm… get at in terms of some men actually liking the challenge of overcoming a woman’s sh*t tests, and overpowering her attempts to beta-ize him.

    I wonder if some men would actually prefer the hot 9 b*tch over the hot 9 sweet and feminine girl I gave an example of. Maybe he’d feel it brings out his best game? Whereas a naturally submissive and sweet girl would be too easy to tame?

    Yep that’s what I was trying to ask. Being a very non-bitchy girl who doesn’t give shit-tests means I’m not a hot 9 though. ^^

    Like


  191. on August 12, 2009 at 1:08 am Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Cannon’s Cannon,

    GNP has been preaching the straight truth, not that I ever doubted it. Here was a black man scraping the absolute nadir of the barrel. By keeping such a vile beast sexually relevant, he removes the need for this fatso and such phenotypes before her to improve themselves at all! This was not mere “retard love” as I’d first suspected, but rather, a black man’s willingness to make love to a veritable retard. I shook my head in disappointment at this act of terrorism against the white man’s well-being.

    Of course it is true. Ann Arbor is the ideal laboratory in which to observe such phenomena.

    See this comment here, and be sure to see the pictures in the links.

    The thing is, each black dude does not keep only one woman fat. He keeps THREE woman fat. One black dude services three fatties at once, inflicting asymmetrical damage to the beauty stats.

    They prefer the fat black women, however, since they want women who resemble the great beast of Africa in size, shape, color, and texture. White women only manage the size and shape, but can’t really simulate the color and texture of a rhino or elephant or cape buffalo. Only black women can.

    Like


  192. “White women only manage the size and shape, but can’t really simulate the color and texture of a rhino or elephant or cape buffalo.”

    ok, i know it’s wrong, but this is the first comment of 2009 to make me laugh out loud for real.

    Like


  193. Jesus what a lot of comments…a tempest signifying nothing. Tommy boy; the price of ignorance? You waste your life. On your death bed you’re saying WTF…it’s over? Duh. Ignorance creates a trail behind you with little to nothing to show for it. Broken hearts, post traumatic stress syndrome, cancer, erectile dysfunction, venereal disease, shallow relationships, stalkers, beer guts, varicose veins, boring conversations, catheters…… need I go on?

    Like


  194. How do i get a cute little avatar pic?

    Like


  195. whiskey

    There’s nothing funnier than seeing the cat come trotting over and ignoring the girl who actually feeds it most of the time, and the look on her face.</i?

    Really clever, if boring…I mean really boring.

    Like


  196. @Aunti Flip

    So who the hell are you? Just want to welcome you to the neighbourhood and ask how you stumbled upon this gathering. Tell us all about your life story. What made you so pissed off at life etc etc. Oh should have neglected to put the first sentence in…but shit forgot to take it out. My bad.

    Like


  197. The part about ignoring women works. You have to believe it to see it.

    I’m in the welfare office and I see this hot girl a few months preggers (she can’t have been more than 18) with a faggy looking, pink skinned hoodie wearing tool. This ugly kid was about the same age, and obviously with the girl he knocked up. Yet he had ear phones in, completing ignoring the mother of his child whose looking around nervously. Kid looked like he couldn’t have gave a fuck is she delivered the kid while they were standing there.

    Also, has anyone ever noticed how teenage girls expect you to get out of their way at shopping centres?
    I almost smashed one in the mouth with my shoulder the other day.

    Like


  198. aoefe

    Who am I? Who knows. I’m here for amusement purposes. I stumbled upon this while googling “asshole”. Am I pissed off at life? Tell me all about it….

    Like


  199. @Ms Flip

    Well it’s tres amusant as well as informational. Lots of pissed off people here you should feel right at home. I started off pissed (at Roissy) and have strangely moved to acceptance I’ve left depression and have entered into peace- it’s pretty cool truthfully.

    Like


  200. I started off pissed (at Roissy) and have strangely moved to acceptance I’ve left depression and have entered into peace- it’s pretty cool truthfully.

    The secret of this place is that it serves to wall off the little hope I once had in finding a woman as a happy little beta in way that’s reminiscent of The Cask of Amontillado. Eventually, you learn that women aren’t attracted to betas, and quite frankly, I can’t bring myself to ape or mimic the behaviours of the alpha males here including men like PA or Dave who practice so-called long-term relationship game, and porn basically saps away the need to actually have sex*. Plus, quite frankly, I’ve never even asked a girl out on a date with the original excuse being girls will say no and rejection will suck to the current excuse that it just gets in the way of sitting at home. So, it’s best to just go on about life, hope for some female friends** for attention, enjoy my hobbies, take care of my mom in the best way that I can, and let the women have the alphas that they want.*** As long as our black president keeps handing out federal money to build new railway systems, and I can save up to eventually ride systems at home and abroad and the roads stay paved and safe, I guess I can be somewhat content since I’m free from having to take care of a wife that only wants me because Doug, Whiskey, and their cronies want to cripple women’s earning power forcing them into super golddigger mode on poor, unwitting beta males who don’t know better.

    *I started masturbating because I missed having sex with the older woman. What became a once a month thing with limited porn and five minute sessions ended up at some point turning into a daily two to three hour affair that nearly caused me to fail out of school and lose employment…

    **Presuming a supply of women who can’t find an LTR and aren’t massively fucked up and compatible with me for friendship purposes.

    ***There’s something about the openly submissive women that annoys me and eats away at my beta soul. Almost as if I think something is wrong with them, and I suspect it’s blatant Wellesley Queen worshipping that’s still at play. I mean, why would anybody want to be the “nigger”.

    Like


  201. Gig

    I have never seen ahusband, no matter how alpha, slap his wife´s ass in public

    I slap my girl hard, in public. Yesterday while walking down the grocery store isle, I gave her ass a slap with all my strength. It was a spectacle.

    She had a little orgasm.

    Like


  202. you can´t slap her ass in front of your teenaged children for example. I bet that sex life risks disappearing once the kids start walking, specially when they are able to poen doors.

    Why not? My friend does. I’m learning a lot just by watching how he handles his marriage.

    Oh yeah, his son? Turning into a natural Alpha.

    Like


  203. LR – Second, children should not see anything “sexual” and ass slapping of their “mother figure” is really inappropriate all around.

    As opposed to having no father figure at all?

    Like


  204. David Alexander – you can manage a 2-3 hour daily jack off session to porn, but you can’t put in one hour a day to work on improving yourself and banging real women?

    I’m at a complete loss for words. Your attitude, and the physical endurance of your right hand, amaze me.

    Like


  205. ””””””’Hope,
    The few times that we’ve snapped at each other,””””””

    Here is some basis for comparison hope my first wife never verbally snapped at me she did try to chest up at the very end he he he and got the face palm.

    My second wife never snapped verbally at me.

    Like


  206. on August 12, 2009 at 3:54 am The Fifth Horseman

    I am seeing more and more evidence that women truly are detached from reality regarding age and biology. Feminist dogma has utterly brainwashed them.

    On Match.com, there seem to be a lot of women who are divorced and age 35/36. It is apparent that a few years ago, they were hotties in their prime. When they decided to get divorced, how could they not know that their market value would be much lower, due both to age and divorced status? Yet, it appears they were oblivious to this.

    There are also a bunch of never married women in the same age group. In the question of ‘Do you want kids’, they still state ‘someday’. Someday? If they are already age 35/36? Don’t they know anything about biological realities?

    And, the photos are a great way to sample the looks of women who are 28 (my usual ideal target age) vs. those who are 35. The difference is significant. The aging is quite obvious. Of course, some of the women who say they are 35 might actually be a few years older, but still.

    Cougar swooping is the easiest Game to run, of course, and the very best training ground for a novice. I encourage every novice to practice heavily on cougars, particularly the attractive cougars (who are the most depressed, as they once lived at the pinnacle that average girls never did).

    Like


  207. on August 12, 2009 at 3:56 am The Fifth Horseman

    David Alexander,

    If someone was trying to kill you, how hard would you fight to defend yourself?

    Like


  208. I guess the secret to not getting verbally fucked with by your woman is to not verbally fuck with her. I mean like I said I was only physical in altercations majority of my life. Just physically dominant not verbally sparring. I don’t yell I just fight. I think woman at a base level know this. Although yea I don’t usually get physical in an angry way with woman.

    Like


  209. I calmly talk to my woman when I don’t like their actions and they usually cry. I only calmly talk to them about bad negative shit if it is bad.

    Like


  210. you can manage a 2-3 hour daily jack off session to porn, but you can’t put in one hour a day to work on improving yourself and banging real women?

    Actually, I’ve stopped doing so in the past few months or so primarily to avoid burnout, improve sleeping habits and wake up on time for work*, and just simple burn out and overuse of porn. Even my right hand started to cramp up from the overuse, and at times, my I’ve felt a burning sensation and soreness on my penis.

    If someone was trying to kill you, how hard would you fight to defend yourself?

    Since I feel that my life’s course should be on my terms, I’d basically do whatever I’d have to do to stay alive.

    *David squandered many nice sunny days for photography and railfanning because he went to bed at 5 AM and woke up at 2 or 3 PM in the afternoon…

    Like


  211. on August 12, 2009 at 4:53 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    Even my right hand started to cramp up from the overuse

    Try the left.

    When the right’s refractory period ends, you could even have a threesome.

    Since I feel that my life’s course should be on my terms, I’d basically do whatever I’d have to do to stay alive

    Have you ever actually been in a fight?

    Like


  212. ”””””PA,
    (* you get one free pass per LTR. She’s supposed to feel safe with you. So don’t be a klutz.)”””””””””’

    Not sure on this one if you hurt her on accident then she does feel safe with you becasue she can imagine what you could do when your angry.

    Like


  213. Of course aoefe it helps to be able to read the future in that situation.

    Like


  214. aoefe

    I started off pissed (at Roissy) and have strangely moved to acceptance I’ve left depression and have entered into peace- it’s pretty cool truthfully.

    Are you taking anti-depressants? I understand there’s been a 50% increase in their usage over the past few years. I’m not pissed off at roissy, but I do find him tragically dreary and pedestrian; if entertaining.. It seems to me a peaceful person would not be wasting time on this site.

    Like


  215. on August 12, 2009 at 5:16 am Epoxytocin No. 87

    It seems to me a peaceful person would not be wasting time on this site.

    …says the person wasting time on this site

    Like


  216. Epoxytocin No. 87

    …says the person wasting time on this site

    Yep. Not me who claims to have found peace of mind and it is me wasting time on this site. Yep. G’nite.

    Like


  217. ””””””Lovely Sexy Beauty,
    It should be natural, in fact opening the door and giving her a little push (like you’re guiding her) could be good.”””””’

    Yea when my wife is getting in a car I do open the door and put my hand on top of her head so she doesn’t bump it he he he

    Then she scoots over to the other side so I can get in. Since yea pretty much all traveling by us done using drivers.

    Like


  218. @ Fifth Horesman
    “100% superb rules. Every man would greatly encourage all of these rules. So why aren’t more women following these rules?

    AND…..

    These suggestions are precisely what feminists don’t like. So is the ‘Rules’ now in opposition to radical feminists?”

    Above I talked about the conference call where the woman talked about how a match.com guy had asked her to date him exclusively before they even met in person. She also asked what she should tell the guy in response to the question. The advice was:

    “No, don’t tell him, ‘You shouldn’t ask me to be exclusive before we’ve met! Why can’t we just meet?’ You can’t tell a man what to do. Tell him, ‘I’m sorry but I just can’t do that.’ Either he’ll ask you out any way or he won’t.”

    Today in 2009, the Rules are not that popular, particularly with people who were too young when they originally came out. (I get the feeling the authors have been trying to get traction to update the book or something, but for whatever reason it’s just happening. In the meantime they make $$ from exorbitant fees for individual consultations.)

    “He’s Just Not That Into You” has had more cultural impact in recent years. Interestingly, it’s written by a guy who was a writer for Sex and the City.

    Also, I think a few of the ideas behind the Rules became so widespread that they’re just a part of common knowledge now, like how it’s easier to tell if you a guy really likes in a long-term way you if he pursues you. But most Rules are not effective if done a la carte without the internal change of learning to interact with men in a non-bossy manner.

    Also, most of the women who do Rules seminars/conference calls are in their 30s and 40s – these are the women who clearly “don’t get it” naturally. These are the women who are more serious about getting the Rules right; younger girls might just flip through and not internalize the (good) advice so much.

    The Rules have always been pretty anti-feminist on principle. A big part of the first book and the author interviews around it were about defending things it that way: defending why women should not make the first move; why most men are not that attracted to a woman if if she is super-successful career-wise; why women should just shut up and let the man lead.

    Like


  219. BMM

    As a happily and successfully married man in his 40s I can assure you that a functional marriage is one in which both the partners are mature and straightforward adults.

    I find the biggest sin in life is to be boring.

    What you just said strikes me as sinful.

    Like


  220. Like flip ant I don’t get Roissy’s angle. Maybe it’s some sort of in-joke to the regulars (esp. cruelty to animals for creepier crew). He seems to confuse assertiveness with aggressiveness, dominant vs domineering, strength vs violence, etc. It’s akin to some guy who wants to be rich but has no wealth creation skills so instead he’s resorts to robbing people. From the Alphas I’ve seen in real life they are generally decent guys who feel no need to be abusive or domineering as they have nothing to prove. Not to metions Alphas tend to be protective of their women. Tip: want to provoke an Alpha into kicking the crap out of you in the shortest amount of time – verbally disparage his woman. More often than not – if a man is arrested for abusing his wife and kids it’s a wimpy pathetic Beta loser.

    One question is: does this performance ‘break women in’ or just round up masochist women who for some reason like being abused?

    Like


  221. It seems to me a peaceful person would not be wasting time on this site.

    Oh I don’t want to give you the impression I’m all Bhudda or anything…I just came to peace with the male and female condition and staying reinforces it. Truthfully I stay because I like reading what people have to say for now its satisfying my need to read, plus I’m getting educated on things I haven’t thought of before. The point I was trying to make was you’re pissed off, other people here are pissed off you should feel right at home.

    P.S. – nope, not taking drugs. Should you be? 😉

    Like


  222. Extensions to Roissy’s humour:

    * Don’t “keep an eye” on your woman. – she should behind you but slighty to your rear as it is her proper position.

    * Learn the power of NO. “Can I borrow this book?” “No, I’m still reading it. – and when I’m finished I’m going to use it for toilet paper.”

    * If her brooding bothers you, leave to hang with your buddies or find a household project to work on. If you feel you absolutely must do something – give her a slap across her face so she now has something to really cry about.

    * Always control the remote, TV, computer, stereo, and circular saw. Let her rest her head on your lap when you watch movies together. – then drop a whopper of a fart and hold her down until the stink goes away or she starts turning green (whichever comes first).

    * you often find yourself walking ahead of her when you two are outside at farmers’ markets or the like, resist the urge to constantly look over your shoulder to see where she is – by getting a leash for her.

    * The dog is yours, not hers, even when it’s hers. It’s a pack leader thing she wouldn’t understand. – obtain the dog’s loyalty by promising not to neuter him.

    * Make a cat-skin hat so you can look like your favourite TV hero Daniel Boone (Fess Parker).

    Like


  223. The pooch one made me laugh

    My house mate 40yr old natural Alpha, has new lady with dog & yes he’s trained/controls the dog now, even her friends comment how well the dog is behaving at party’s etc

    He’s fun, laid back & a little camp but still dominant & the women they love it

    Like


  224. PA

    But yeah, not only do I not tolerate nagging, I can’t even imagine tolerating it. Not even in a thought experiment. Fuck that noise.

    It’s simple. Just say “stop wanging me”.

    If that doesn’t work, escalate as nescessary. Up until making her life a living hell, if need be. Or physically throwing her out the door.

    After a while, it’s all you need. She’ll know what happens if she doesn’t shut up.

    Like


  225. Gil,

    that’s very clever and all, but as a woman who has now had all of roissy and DFH’s LTR game skills and more practiced on her by a natural i have to tell you that this techniques unequivocally work.

    i guess maybe some who disagree with LTR game don’t grasp what it’s trying to accomplish. its not some gay playacting dom/sub bullshit from HBO Real Sex, it’s a relationship in which the dominance issues are settled (in the man’s favor) to such an extent that the type of happy marriage people think doesn’t exist anymore can blossom.

    bickering and fighting in a marriage, and marital bed death, are simply the results of a power struggle. In a successful LTR there can only be one Highlander. to be fair, sometimes this can be the woman, maybe betas don’t WANT to be the boss and are happy to be beaten with a rolling pin by a domineering wife, but this is advice for men who are more dominant and want that in an LTR but have been raised without the means to exercise it and a certain level of fear of modern entitled bitches, many of whom grew up with single mom’s and no exposure to a dominant male.

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  226. How to handle money issues in STR and LTR really warrants further discussion. I still mantain that:

    “No, thats not a good idea right now.”

    beats out:

    “Sorry, honey, but we can’t afford that on our/my salary.”

    Telling her your total financial sistuation; telling her that she can have xy&z, but not ab&c DOES NOT MAKE HER WANT AB&C ANY LESS.

    And she will see your weakness: not enough income.

    On the other hand making the budgeting decisions yourself and responding with a vague but decissive answer, sends a better message in my opion.

    Like


  227. Dana: Especially like your last point: there are a lot of American woman who have NEVER encountered a dominant male (an absence reinforced by media/culture). When they do encounter one, they usually jump right into line, as their biology pushes them – after the initial shock and horror wear off. Most American women, however, never get to be ‘normal’ due to the shortage of dominant men in this country circa 2009, and are therefore the bitchy harpies that betas know and love.

    Like


  228. But if she’s not nagging, but just being mildly annoying, I’ll say “can you please not move your mouth”.

    Like


  229. @Madras,

    Why you need a goal higher than a new car lol

    Or some shiney object.

    I used to take pleasure in telling her no.

    Then I found out it is easier to “force” her to shop till she drops plus it only cost me a k.

    Then she reminded me that we have goals for the money other than shiney objects.

    Spending all the money on shiney objects wasn’t going to help our team win.

    Was a beautiful thing really.

    Like


  230. “When they do encounter one, they usually jump right into line, as their biology pushes them – after the initial shock and horror wear off.”

    this is SO true. the first time i cried and screamed and stamped my foot over some BS and my hub yelled “stop whining at me” and left the house, i couldn’t fuckin’ believe it–i mean, he was ignoring ME??? MY needs? MY emotions!! damn him!! JERK!! then he stayed away EXACTLY long enough for me to start worrying—like he had the stopwatch to my heart (hours, not days), and coolly asked me what was for dinner and to get him a soda. he then proceeded to act like the fight never happened. while i was cooking i was calming down and forgetting about it and again with impeccable timing he came in the kitchen, grabbed me from behind and gave me a big kiss on the back of the head and we didn’t talk about it anymore.

    i think young women are just very out of control, they express every fleeting emotion and demand inordinate amounts of consolation and attention every time they are upset. him not coddling my every tear seemed mean at first, but i realize now its taught me to control myself and only to get mad or upset when something is REALLY happening, not over every imagined slight and failed shit test. i’m not saying everything is perfect, but when we do have fights they are FIGHTS, what we don’t have is daily bickering over every little thing and the sexual stand-offs of the marriage with two bosses.

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  231. God, Little Girl is annoying with her oh-so-cute abbreviation slang.

    Like


  232. Dave Alex,
    I see you’re back in rare form.

    DA: The secret of this place is that it serves to wall off the little hope I once had in finding a woman as a happy little beta in way that’s reminiscent of The Cask of Amontillado. Eventually, you learn that women aren’t attracted to betas, and quite frankly, I can’t bring myself to ape or mimic the behaviours of the alpha males here including men like PA or Dave who practice so-called long-term relationship game, and porn basically saps away the need to actually have sex*.

    O: Ok, let’s dive in right here. Novaseeker recently blogged about the very real pitfalls of porn in a Man’s life, especially younger, less experienced Men. He specifically named you, Dave. And further noted that porn can and often does sap a Man’s will to interact w/Women, even in *nonsexual* ways. In short, abuse/misuse of porn can promote the default position of Males, which is antisocial behavior. And that’s what you are, Dave. An antisocial personality. Oh, you do a good job of hiding it behind a genteel facade, but you have all the tell tale signals of it. Excessive use/abuse of porn, is perhaps the single biggest “tell”.

    As for Women who don’t like Betas, not true-even Roissy has said as much, if you actually read closely what he says. Beta White Males, for example, often hookup w/Asian Women, who seem to actually like what Betas have to offer. Now, listen carefully Dave-we’re not talking about what you find attractive here-we’re thoroughly debunking your notions about the socalled Doomed Beta Male, using a source we both respect. Capice?

    Let’s continue…

    DA: Plus, quite frankly, I’ve never even asked a girl out on a date with the original excuse being girls will say no and rejection will suck to the current excuse that it just gets in the way of sitting at home. So, it’s best to just go on about life, hope for some female friends** for attention, enjoy my hobbies, take care of my mom in the best way that I can, and let the women have the alphas that they want.***

    O: Translation-I’m too afraid of rejection to make any difference in my life, my dad in essence failed, and my mom had undue influence on my life.

    DA: As long as our black president keeps handing out federal money to build new railway systems, and I can save up to eventually ride systems at home and abroad and the roads stay paved and safe, I guess I can be somewhat content since I’m free from having to take care of a wife that only wants me because Doug, Whiskey, and their cronies want to cripple women’s earning power forcing them into super golddigger mode on poor, unwitting beta males who don’t know better.

    O: Listen to yourself, Dave, you make no sense whatsoever, and just goes to show how far you’ll go to cling to your wrongheaded ideas. Speaking of Whiskey, you remind me of him when he flatout refuses to watch The Wire but then will turn around and write long blog posts about Buffy The Vampire Slayer, and Mad Men, etc et al. He does this because they support his argument, facts be damned, and he knows it. And the same can be said of you.

    By definition, a Gold Digger wouldn’t be looking at YOU for ANYTHING, because you have NOTHING they would EVER want, Dave. There, I’ve said it-in fact, given where you are in the scheme of things, a Woman is better off getting Welfare than hooking up w/you, if its about money. That’s a fact.

    So please, please, please, stop all this gold digger noise. There’s nothing wrong w/wanting to remain single because you simply oppose marriage and want to enjoy your hobbies. It IS something wrong when you refuse to Man Up about these things and put foolish ideas, that have been thoroughly disproven, to bed like they should be.

    Ok, what else here…

    DA: *I started masturbating because I missed having sex with the older woman. What became a once a month thing with limited porn and five minute sessions ended up at some point turning into a daily two to three hour affair that nearly caused me to fail out of school and lose employment…

    O: Again, please see above comments of mine referencing Novaseeker. Case in point. And no, the reason why you started jacking off was because you were too afraid and too lazy to find another older Woman to have sex with. Newsflash: they aint that hard to find, and many would actually welcome the chance to have a younger Man servicing her on the regular. As Tood aka TFH has said, and I agree, Cougar Game is perhaps among the easiest forms of Game around, because they basically do all the work. It’ll be a natural fit for you, if you had a scintilla of backbone, gumption and get up and go.

    DA: **Presuming a supply of women who can’t find an LTR and aren’t massively fucked up and compatible with me for friendship purposes.

    O: Not sure I follow here, but I’d question your ability to determine another’s mental and emotional state, given your own questionable ones, plus the fact that as far as I am aware you lack any such creds to do so.

    DA: ***There’s something about the openly submissive women that annoys me and eats away at my beta soul. Almost as if I think something is wrong with them, and I suspect it’s blatant Wellesley Queen worshipping that’s still at play. I mean, why would anybody want to be the “nigger”.

    O: I’m not sure how being or not being “the nigger” applies here. But what I would say is that one, you need to let the past stay in the past wrt Wellsley Queen, and two, there are quite a few ballbusting harpies out there whom I’m sure you’ll find to your liking. Again, Roissy writes about this all the time, you just haven’t noticed because as per usual, you’re too busy being Stuck on Stupid w/you whacked assed ideas that have no rational basis in the realworld.

    Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  233. So yea depends a lot on percieved views. I always spent a k on shit. In this instance the percieved was from point of excess materials to get whatever than from a position of want but cant have. When you can buy everything you don’t need to buy anything. Kind of like most things if they were free you wouldn’t go pick em out of the dump. Why people get storage so they never have to see the shit they bought again.

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  234. Interesting stuff. I’m from a rural area though so I’m not sure if my thoughts apply to the forum. Many of the men I know would exhibit the kind of traits and behaviors that Roissy points out here, and from what I’ve seen many of the younger (18-25) men have taken to acting like school girls.
    I think much of that has to do with the media, but more significantly the extended adolescence that they all (most) seem to have. There seems to be an awful lot of hanging on mama’s apron strings these days even in my small community.
    I like the humor too. The catskin hat thing is hilarious.

    Like


  235. Gunny, Gil, Dana,
    I think the main “weapon” a Man has, and that we’re leaving out here, is simply that of Voting w/your Feet-

    Walking out.

    A lot of guys really don’t use this option and they should a lot more. Bottomline you don’t have to take a Woman’s bad attitude, and let’s face it people, if girlfriend is beyond 30 years of age, that’s what it is. I can allow some wiggle room if she’s below 30, but beyond 30 there’s really no excuse. Adults are expected to curtail their urges at least to some extent, and if she can’t or won’t, either is just as bad for me. I’m Audi 5K.

    When more Men simply walk out, Women will wise up.

    O

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  236. roissy:
    Spot on post. Great tips.
    In summary, no placing the pussy on a pedestal, don’t be a doormat, don’t be an emotional tampon, and zero tolerance for shit tests.

    IN other words, be a man. A real man. When you are a real man, the panties will moisten, and that’s all that matters. To hell with love and marriage and all that superfluous stuff.

    Also, ignore what women say, watch what they do instead. That includes what some indignant cunts say in this very comment section. Never take ‘relationship advice’ from women.

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  237. obs

    so true,

    men always had the option to leave in marriage 1.0 and women toed the line–that’s why feminism did everything it could to reverse that polarity in marriage 2.0, removing all consequences for abandoning the marriage to the woman and placing the onus of divorce solely upon the men.

    as long as men had the power to a) leave and/or b) physically chastise an errant wife feminism couldn’t do away with the male role and place women in power. it’s that simple

    Like


  238. Dana: Unfortunately, it really *is* that simple. Well said.

    Our only hope at this juncture is … cloning you, I suspect. 🙂

    Like


  239. Yup if people could just break up and they split shit and that was it. Then yea would help with creating a team mentality of us against the system. We better build something together because we are where the buck stops. Also being able to leave with free will means they both understand they are staying because they want to and chose to. Where when one side has power of state behind them and one side doesn’t it is teamwork until it is us (feminst and system) against the (man).

    No one told me I had to give my wife money. No one made me stick with her. No one will make me do so other than me. I chose to be with her. That is all. So therefore when she had problems I was there.

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  240. – When you are sleeping, tell her you want to sleep on the side of the bed closest to the door. You don’t want her getting in the way if you have to kill an intruder.

    – If you’re cooking dinner, give her petty things to do like cutting the ends off green beans and you cook the main dish. If she is cooking for you, just relax and let her do the cooking.

    – Open the wine after she fiddles with it for 2 minutes, and do it with ease and then just go about your business. No comments are needed.

    – Make her walk on the left side of you. This is ingrained in my head because I’m ex military, and the higher ranking person always walks on the right side. It is always uncomfortable for me to walk on the left side of anyone….unless I’m walking next to my dad.

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  241. Since comments here can be heavy on the downers, I want to add that it’s not hopeless. American women are probably the worst on earth, attitude-wise, but even many of them can be saved for MANkind through properly rigorous and consistent application of Game. And the reservoirs of foreign cooch remain robust. Gotta be careful, but many are quite worth the effort.

    One of the gals in my harem at present – the one with the greatest chance of being upgraded to an actual LTR with me – is:

    – always thrilled to see me, no questions asked – it’s my schedule (not hers) that matters;
    – is always eager to fuck-fuck-fuck however I want her;
    – never ever shit-tests me, about anything;
    – cooks for me, washes my clothes, openly says “the man is always right”;
    – takes me out on the town, on her dime, as often as I pay;
    – totally receptive to the dominant man, never gives any back-talk;
    – counters me (which rarely happens) in a polite and productive manner;
    – never asks about the other women in my life;
    – gives me gifts for no reason – clothes, booze, threesomes;
    – is quite pleasingly rich.

    She is of course foreign, but European (ie white). So it *can* happen … if your Game is tight.

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  242. How to handle money issues in STR and LTR really warrants further discussion.

    I subtly encourage mine in various ways (“Baby, you make me so hot when you save us money!”). Of course it helped that I specifically screened for a non-materialistic girl.

    Key criteria:

    – ZERO credit card debt
    – living in a house/apartment not beyond her means
    – no financial transfers from mommy and daddy
    – no consumer loans (unless it’s a modest car and she actually needs a car)
    – ‘shopping’ is not one of her past times

    She still forgets to pay her income taxes and doesn’t care for financial planning, but I’ll be taking over that stuff after the wedding. I straight up told her this, and she accepted (with relief, I suspect).

    Right now we’re seeing the financial planner to get things like insurance sorted out, but after we’re married, all the financial decisions (and definitely the big ones) will be my exclusive province.

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  243. JAM: Strongly recommend that you control anything financial, NOW, since her irresponsibility will be YOUR problem — you have to be the adult here, “forgetting” to pay taxes results in real legal as well as financial trouble. Don’t forget that “joint” debts mean exactly that, no matter who charged all the fucking shoes and handbags … important to note BEFORE you get married

    Esq.

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  244. Have you ever actually been in a fight?

    I have never been in a fight. Twelve years of Catholic School tend to do that.

    And that’s what you are, Dave. An antisocial personality.

    Just because I choose not to date doesn’t make me anti-social. If you’re well aware that you’re not wanted, then being avoidant isn’t being anti-social, especially if there’s no hatred of the rest of society involved.

    As for Women who don’t like Betas, not true-even Roissy has said as much, if you actually read closely what he says.

    IIRC, Roissy and numerous commenters have said that’s true. And those beta males will be cheated upon by their Asian lovers when those women find even better partners.

    Translation-I’m too afraid of rejection to make any difference in my life, my dad in essence failed, and my mom had undue influence on my life.

    Again, I said outright, I couldn’t be bothered because the relationship will fail outright in the medium to long-term, and quite frankly, the entire concept of dating just gets in the way of the home-work-home loop.

    And leave my dad out of it. He did not fail.

    By definition, a Gold Digger wouldn’t be looking at YOU for ANYTHING, because you have NOTHING they would EVER want, Dave.

    I know that I’d never attract a woman with my current wages, but in an alternate world where I make white collar “career” wages or I work on the railroad making nearly $100K per year, I’d be a target for golddiggers who want to extract my wages for their own personal gain.

    Newsflash: they aint that hard to find, and many would actually welcome the chance to have a younger Man servicing her on the regular.

    Yes, but I’d have to go through the logistics of going out to go meet one and at that point, I couldn’t be bothered so yes, I’m too lazy to do it.

    Not sure I follow here

    It’s merely a proxy for finding females as friends. As long as she isn’t mentally ill, and I can tolerate her existence while she tolerates my boring tales is basically a candidate.

    I’m not sure how being or not being “the nigger” applies here.

    The nigger is the proxy for a loser or in this case, the submissive partner that just goes along with what the dominant wants. I’m not looking for somebody to dominate over me, but I just want an equal that I can enjoy the experience with.

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  245. @Esq.

    JAM: Strongly recommend that you control anything financial, NOW, since her irresponsibility will be YOUR problem — you have to be the adult here, “forgetting” to pay taxes results in real legal as well as financial trouble. Don’t forget that “joint” debts mean exactly that, no matter who charged all the fucking shoes and handbags … important to note BEFORE you get married

    I completely agree, which is why I’m straightening out her financial affairs and taking control, viz., financial planner, etc. Related question: would I be able to get power of attorney over financial assets in her name we build up post-wedding? That way I can make decisions quickly.

    It helps that she was raised with frugality as one of her core principles — she doesn’t own a single designer anything, even though she can clearly afford it. She has no consumer debt. She rents out part of her house to pay the mortgage (when most of her friends in similar situations rent).

    The forgetting her taxes bit was only this year since her father usually reminds her to do this and she was overseas during tax time. I’m steadily taking over her father’s role in all things, not just financial. I’ve told her this up front and she agrees.

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  246. Women prefer men who are in relationships. Unsurprising to regular readers, but always good to have ones beliefs confirmed by science.

    http://www.synergy-pr.com/press/MelissaBurkley,PhD/51/800/0

    Although the following assumption is ludicrous:

    ““This finding indicates that single women are considerably more interested in pursuing a man who is less available to them,” said Dr. Burkley. “This may be because a man who is attached has already shown his ability to commit and, in a sense, has been pre-screened by another woman.””

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  247. JAM: Sounds like you have a sensible woman there who has been walled off from the worst aspects of our culture; good, apply Game rigorously to keep here there.

    You can appoint PoA for just about anyone/anything, but you should be careful. You can be her ‘attorney in fact’ but if you get divorced (don’t think it can’t happen) her lawyer could really go apeshit over that, and it doesn’t change the nature of joint assets (and debts) — and it could make you look like a controlling asshole if things go belly-up. Laws vary a bit between jurisdictions, and I’d counsel a guy in my state to move deliberately but carefully on PoA issues vis-a-vis the wife; only really an issue if she has significant assets, IMHO.

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  248. @ Esquire

    Thanks for the advice re: PoA. As a non-lawyer, I hadn’t really considered the ‘optics’ of PoA. Good to know.

    Re: divorce — we’re both reading Roissy’s blog, after all, lol. The only reason I’m getting married is that I want a (large) family with children raised properly. Continuing on the male lineage and whatnot. Otherwise, I’d probably be happy changing the world on my own.

    My fiancee’s a pretty religious girl, so I’d probably end up more like the betaized version of Dave from Hawai’i rather than divorced. But that is a fate worse than death, as anyone in that situation can attest.

    Still, LTR Game — an ounce of prevention and all of that.

    Like


  249. black men dont like fat women , BROKE men like fat women

    go ahead and try to name more than ONE millionaire black man who is married to or dating a fat black women who he wasnt with before he got some money . you might not even be able to name one

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  250. on August 12, 2009 at 1:09 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Obsidian,

    The whole point is that anti-male divorce laws prevent the man from ‘walking out’. He stands to lose a horrendous cost. The woman, of course, can walk out at will.

    Thus, the divorce laws prevent the man from walking out = the man is force to stay = the man becomes even more Beta.

    JAM,

    I hope you are getting a pre-nup. Don’t think that any woman can be the same after 5, 10, or 20 years. Getting a pre-nup itself is a component of managing LTR Game.

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  251. @Tyler:
    Excellent points by you.

    I’m not a military person but I too feel uncomfortable walking on the left of many people. I thought it came from my history of working with dogs, who always would be kept at the master’s left side when walking. My understanding was that K-9 and military officers would keep their dogs on their left because most wore their pistols on the right. But perhaps there is something innately dominant about being on the right?

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  252. The “right of the line” is the position of honor in military parades, the position of the most senior regiment/unit. Hence the significance.

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  253. I think that it applies in a lot of other areas even outside of the military, in subtle ways that we don’t initially notice. The dog training is a good example.

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  254. Gil

    Maybe it’s some sort of in-joke to the regulars (esp. cruelty to animals for creepier crew). He seems to confuse assertiveness with aggressiveness, dominant vs domineering, strength vs violence, etc.

    You seem to be one of the more alert characters around here. Roissy is what I would simply call “unhealthy” and he appeals to the multitudes of unhealthy among us by convincing them that he is healthy and worthy of emulation. In other words, he’s a common bullshit artist.

    One question is: does this performance ‘break women in’ or just round up masochist women who for some reason like being abused?

    You have to ask? ha ha Don’t even try….. The losers on this site are not going to listen to you. If you expect that….well, forget it.

    aoefe

    P.S. – nope, not taking drugs. Should you be?

    I’m the ‘cleanest’ person you can imagine. I don’t need drugs because I’m just a natural what not. Take it or leave it. Ya know? I know people on anti-depressants and it ain’t pretty and if they ever try to STOP taking them? Ooooooh wheeee really not pretty. By the way “mind” is never peaceful by definition. I prefer passion over peace. TETO (to each their own)

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  255. on August 12, 2009 at 2:28 pm Black Military Man

    “This is very true. It’s the equivalent of the “Nouveu Riche” VS. “Old Money” to put it really simply.”………………..

    Precisely why Jay Z pulled Beyonce but doesn’t stand a chance in hell with a Sedgewick. (alert: Obsidian)

    Remember the joke betrothal of J.Lo (Jenny from the block – BRONX) to New England preppy boy Ben Afleck? Anyone suprised by their break-up?

    Finally Jenny kept it real by getting with another Puerto Rican.

    Artificial game will never allow you to bat too far out of your league (I’m talking real culture and old money here, not nouveu game and looks).

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  256. on August 12, 2009 at 2:37 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Artificial game will never allow you to bat too far out of your league (I’m talking real culture and old money here, not nouveu game and looks).

    Define ‘artificial Game’. Remember that prior to learning Game, people like Mystery, Style, etc. had almost nothing going for them in the way of money, looks, or career prospects. By your logic, they still would not get anything ‘out of their league’.

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  257. BMM just wanted an excuse to diss a white guy. Ben Affleck in this case.

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  258. Black Military Man –

    Remember the joke betrothal of J.Lo (Jenny from the block – BRONX) to New England preppy boy Ben Afleck? Anyone suprised by their break-up?

    I don’t know how much you know about Boston, but Ben Affleck is working class Boston, not New England preppy. Don’t elevate him that much above her because of class assumptions based on his whiteness. Anyone who knows working class Boston whites knows they’re not that much classier than Bronx people. He’s not exactly a Kennedy. Not a good example of old money mating with new money there.

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  259. BMM just wanted an excuse to diss a white guy. Ben Affleck in this case.

    You are so racially paranoid. He’s not dissing Affleck, he’s DISSING LOPEZ BY SAYING SHE WAS DATING OUT OF HER LEAGE CLASSWISE.

    Like


  260. Also PA, BMM said Jay-Z also doesn’t stand a chance mating with a member of Sedgwick family, no matter how much money he has. How is he dissing white people anywhere in his comment?

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  261. BMM is starting to become a cliche

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  262. Joe, didn’t you notice the bile in the way BMM scrawled “preppy boy Ben Afleck”? I know the ‘tude, I know it well. Plus, he’s fair game, being how he makes race the number one word in his screen name. He would be much cooler if he had a race-neutral name like you or David Alexander.

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  263. Joe, didn’t you notice the bile in the way BMM scrawled “preppy boy Ben Afleck”?

    No. I don’t see how the words “preppy boy” indicate bile, but maybe it’s because I’m not white.

    I did notice how he typed “Jenny from the block – BRONX” as indicating that she’s just a hood chick with delusional social aspirations for trying to get an upper class guy. Like I said, read the post again. He’s dissing the minorities, not the whites.

    If he’s as eager to diss whites and promote blacks as you say, please explain the Jay-Z/Sedgwick comment to me. Because I’m pretty sure that’s not complimentary to blacks.

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  264. on August 12, 2009 at 3:19 pm Black Military Man

    “Define ‘artificial Game’. Remember that prior to learning Game, people like Mystery, Style, etc. had almost nothing going for them in the way of money, looks, or career prospects. By your logic, they still would not get anything ‘out of their league’.”

    Again, go back up and read what I wrote. I’m talking class and culture league, not looks.

    Mystery has a kid right? Dakota Rain or some silly name like that? (indicative of the class and culture of parents – unmarried white mom naming her kid “Dakota” is equivalent to our unmarried black moms naming their kids Aquanetta, Porsha and Mercedes Benz).

    Sure, I’m sure Dakota’s mom is a hot, young thang, perhaps out of Mystery’s league looks wise (though he’s not a bad looking kid, just corny), HOWEVER, he’ll never marry a Sedgewick.

    That’s my point.

    Obsidian claimed Jay Z with his game and $$$ could’ve pulled any educated New York woman he wanted but he went for Beyonce because looks trump background, education and career when a man is looking for a wife.

    NOT.

    Jay Z pulled Beyonce because even though she is not “ghetto”, she’s a black woman in the pop-music industry and she ACTS ghetto in all her music vids (to the left, to the left – straight up hood sista). Listen to her interviews and she’s got that slight ghetto twang to boot.

    Noveu riche black folk are never too far from Laquisha’s Weave and Beauty Parlor on Flatbush Ave – even if we were raised in the suburbs and went to private school. We can flip flop back and forth between the two with ease.

    Now………. let Jay Z try and pull New England Upper Crust or hell, even just a Julia Roberts.

    Not gonna happen.

    He married a woman far out of his league looks-wise, sure. But only slightly out of his league otherwise.

    In fact, let’s see Beyonce, as hot as she is, try and pull an East Coast Ivy League Upper Crust Trust Fund Preppy Boy.

    Could never happen. (i’m talking marriage, not STR or jump-off here)

    Like


  265. Yea Yea the guys trolling which was ignored so hes trying harder bla bla bladdedy bla.

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  266. ha ha; much better

    at best: you kill her want for any other man

    at worst: you kill her cat

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  267. Yea Yea the guys trolling which was ignored so hes trying harder bla bla bladdedy bla.

    I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong. If you guys can link to some comments showing some anti-white or pro-black trolling track record by black military man then I’ll agree with you. At least something on par with the “mu’min loves fat women” guy, who you guys seem to ignore. that guy is way worse than anything i’ve seen BMM post. I’ve yet to see BMM show any anti-white agenda unless i missed it.

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  268. ””””””””’Black Military Man
    HER: “I see you looking at her!”

    ME: “She’s hot, isn’t she?”

    BLACK MILITARY MAN: It’s a shame WE don’t hang out at the beach all that much. Your wives would then not even notice where you looked. LOL. There’s interacial alpha-beta co-operation for you – just what America needs!””””””””””’

    Break that one down for me joe then apologize.

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  269. Like I said he was trolling then tried harder. I suppose at some point he will be same as some other illustrious folks. But yea big fucking whoop. Was kinda funny anyway and now we have tim.

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  270. cool! race thread!!

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  271. Break that one down for me joe then apologize

    THAT’S trolling. That one joke? With your level of sensitivity, I’d hate to see how you’d take it then if you were black and had to read all the little jokes we have to read on this site. You’d be 3 times worse than Obsidian by now. If “Mu’Min Loves Black Women” is not trollworthy enough to call out, that one joke by BMM isn’t either. I said “track record” not single comment. And since he dissed Jennifer Lopez and Jay-Z in his last comment, he’s obviously not just targeting whites. So so far we have one pro-black joke and one pro-white comment (the Ben Affleck one) No apology here Gun, you haven’t made your case.

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  272. Come on now joe your moving the goalposts he he he

    I don’t really expect you to apologize for him though.

    But at least admit.

    He is new here and was trolling or trying to get revenge who knows. Whatever.

    But yea I am sensitive on the issue. The president of the us said whites weren’t going to get jobs in the new trillion package.

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  273. Then I see the shit play out where I am but it was playing out before that.

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  274. internet duel!!

    I´ll be guns godfather and BMM can be Joe´s. The winner gains premium access to redtube to see the exclusive Nicole strip-tease

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  275. Hell yeeeeaaaaa gig.

    Naa I already said my piece in letter to the ceo at least I am not the walking dead. I did something.

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  276. lol gig

    I actually feel good I did something.

    Normally I just feel like shit about the whole race thing.

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  277. Well had done shit before but nothing obviously was done. Yea thought may lose job on this one. Put it all on line he he he

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  278. Last office with me gone like I said before now 100 percent minority. Plus more personnel than we had before. Shit like that except over and over. So obviously a policy not an accident.

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  279. on August 12, 2009 at 4:14 pm Black Military Man

    Gunny:
    ””””””””’Black Military Man
    HER: “I see you looking at her!”

    ME: “She’s hot, isn’t she?”

    BLACK MILITARY MAN: It’s a shame WE don’t hang out at the beach all that much. Your wives would then not even notice where you looked. LOL. There’s interacial alpha-beta co-operation for you – just what America needs!””””””””””’

    Break that one down for me joe then apologize.

    ME:

    That was a facetious joke that PROOVES my point. White suburban housewives will check us out, flirt with us, even sleep with us, will most of them marry us? Not yet.

    Why?

    Like I said, and as a black man I can say it and it’s not considered racist: Noveu rich suburban African Americans are never more than 2 steps away from Laquisha’s Weave and Beauty Parlor on “the block”.

    I come from an old military family, real old – back to the Civil War. Military is in our blood and has kept 99% of us out of trouble. Even then we all got some distant family members somewhere doin’ time.

    Forget that my family has never lived in the ghetto and has always been educated. We marry other non-ghetto, educated blacks – but they also always have a fallen family member somewhere doin’ time.

    Outside of New York and California, the types of blacks that marry whites are of the same category: the black is 2 steps away from Laquisha’s, if not in it, and the white is 2 steps away from the trailer park, if not in it.

    How does this translate in the white world? Mystery and his baby’s mama named their kids “Dakota Rain”. That’s all I need to know about the type of “out of his league” women that Mystery pulls.

    Class and culture, folks. Class and culture.

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  280. Ok now I am fucking up relationship game week my favorite topic oh well.

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  281. @ guns

    we need more black supremacists here to have more race threads. and enlighten us. didn´t you know blacks went to the moon before da white man?

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  282. Gotta roll w/Joe on this one. Just don’t see how BMM dissed Affleck, and yea, I’ve long known of his working class Beantown roots. And I actually like him as an actor.

    But he couldn’t handle JLo in my view. Puffy and Marc Anthony was more her speed.

    As for the constant racial snapping, yup, Joe hit the nail on the head-the ONLY time anyone here just happens to notice something is when someone Black/non-White does it, so they think. As Joe pointed out, Apeman can go hogwild w/crazy stuff, same deal w/Willard Libby, etc et al (Gig) and nothing’s said about it. Which leads me to think that the overwhelming majority of White guys actually do agree w/their stances. Cool.

    Let’s dance…

    The Obsidian (which is usually Black)

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  283. Seeing as this thread has turned into yet ANOTHER boring race-war, I thought I’d pour fuel on the fire WRT what gig said:

    *munches popcorn*

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  284. dana–

    bickering and fighting in a marriage, and marital bed death, are simply the results of a power struggle. In a successful LTR there can only be one Highlander.

    So true Dana. What you describe is in many ways similar to my relationship. We’re different in that I’m much more verbal and intellectualizing than your man seems to be (DFH is closer), but in some ways similar. Personally I don’t see what’s so hard about it. Dave does have some moves and economy of words at least as he retells it that impress me and I don’t always manage, but the basic attitude is very similar. Personally I don’t see what’s so hard about it at all.

    If there’s a challenge it’s getting a girl INTO this situation with you. That takes some skilz. Once you are in it, it’s WAY easier to maintain. The notion that it’s work all the time is crazy talk.

    It’s more like fun and games all the time. Or often. No need to be on constantly.

    to be fair, sometimes this can be the woman, maybe betas don’t WANT to be the boss and are happy to be beaten with a rolling pin by a domineering wife,

    What I think has happened is that the feminism that’s been reflected in the mass media and schools and many upper half white family’s home culture now for decades is that it’s made many women THINK they want this in a man, at least one they want to settle down with – though I think that peaked in the 1990’s for girls and has been receding fairly rapidly for the younger of them, if less so for propagandized guys, since. By now at least though, many of them know that isn’t where their biggest thrills come from.

    So you now have the female version of the madonna whore complex: the stable good mate/stud complex. I think this is now WAY more pronounced among girls than Madonna / whore is among guys currently. (Because some fools will marry sluts and most Madonnas aren’t so much as previously and are willing to become one man sluts for the right guy, pretty easily.) As well it’s hard to turn a nice guy into a stud. Some can’t do it and for others game is the unknown mystery of what really makes women tick, such that even when they hear about it, it’s so counter their thoroughly propagandized ideological frame that they’re convinced it’s nothing but a bag of cheap and dirty/deceptive/snake oil magic tricks (that only work for card shark and magician types).

    I’m convinced that there’s going to be a massive swell in cuckoldry including of the open and eventually reluctantly concensual type among gen Y. I regard this as a social travesty and sign of increasing decadence and societal breakdown as matriarchy gains more pervasive hold in the domestic sphere. But also as another playground for aging alpha players (as well as some young guy higher betas who can cougar up to alpha training by this among other routes).

    Culture is one thing that enables this. Another is the divorce laws, and family court judges under feminist lobbying. I’ve been reading more about that and have come to realize that far from alimony fading out under nearly all circumstances as it was when I got my no kids divorce more than a decade ago (for my cheating) it’s been roaring back and in fact in many of the more lefty jurisdictions like Cali and NY is again become the “standard to which she had become accustomed to”, though now utterly without regard to her fault. (Well they generally reserve “shocking conduct” but that means things these days like tried to kill her husband, not adultery.) The result is that the treat of a middle class man that he’ll divorce his wife when they have two young kids is the treat that he’ll live in the poorhouse and if she has a pretty good job, that she’ll live FAR better post divorce than he will. I’ve run the numbers for Cali and NY in some detail and it’s shocking. Can give details.

    Anyway that means that after several years of marriage (few will get alimony after a year or two) the combo of his house, half plus plus of all is money, child support=alimony plus alimony, all designed to leave her just as she was pre divorce as much as possible with only enough regard to his situation that it’s deemed that with the credible and acted upon threat of imprisonment that he’ll comply, her power is enormous. Women haven’t really gotten this completely yet. Ask most in the culture whether cheating women can get alimony and they’ll say no. They’ll be right about North Carolina, but wrong about California, New York or Massachussets. And in Mass you can’t even prenup that away. All the more leverage on cuckolded pussy boys.

    I just find it amazing that we’re letting this happen. A whole lot of it is the media blackout, or severe spin. For that Dana, though I’m not anti Semitic (but am anti PC or other taboos) and my ex wife was 100% Jewish, I gotta say, well you know, who’s been leading this, without a question of a doubt. Yeah it’s cultural Marxism crafted by the Institute for Social Research (Frankfurt School).

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  285. Tood aka TFH,
    I respectfully disagree. A Man can ALWAYS walk. What’s your self-respect worth, Tood? Your peace of mind? My God Man, your Happiness? Is it worth, what, 250K? 500K? $1MIL? $2MIL? $5MIL? What?

    W/all dues respect to my White & Asian (Including Indian) brothers here, I gotta say, one of the main reasons why you have so much trouble from your Women is because they know you ain’t gonna do nothin’. If they, on the other hand, know that you will be GONE if they don’t get a handle on their BS w/the quickness, things will change.
    See, being homeless aint not thing to me. Neither is being in the pen. Been there, done both. And survived. And thrived. Being broke, ha! The money don’t make me, I make the money.

    And because I live in probably the easiest money making place in the history of human beings, it aint no thing for me to destroy anything I have to keep someone who’s proven they wouldn’t piss on me to put me out if I was on fire, from getting it. And then I’d go and get three hots and a cot, and call it a day. They can’t keep me in there forever, the jails are constantly overcrowded and I’d get out on that basis alone, if not become a cause celebre’.

    Women need to know that shit ain’t free, somebody’s gotta pay, and if it’s on my dime, I call the tune, and if she don’t like it, she can roll, or I will. No hard feelings.

    The Obsidian

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  286. Not eager to get the race-war going full-steam here, but … Obsidian, outsde SWPL circles, white people don’t like blacks. Not hate, not wanna kill/enslave, but they don’t like all the affirmative action mumbo-jumbo, the Obammessiah rhetoric and, above all, they associate blacks with violent crime they fear and music and popular culture they can’t stand.

    But this ain’t whitey, it’s everyone. It’s the whole damn planet. People basically like people like themselves (ethno-raciallly, religiously, etc), and dislike different sorts to varying degrees. Actual hate is the exception, but loving others not like you is confined to self-loathing SWPL types.

    I’ve traveled the world, and I’ve never seen a less “racist” society than the USA. Whites are astonishgly tolerant of blacks, given the appalling de facto war blacks have waged on whites since the mid-1960s (which we tactfully call “crime” – in Iraq, we’d more honestly call it “civil war” or “uprising”).

    So, I’m sure a lot of whites are racists by your definition, but so is everyone else. And blacks are the most racist Americans, on average, in my experience as a federal agent and attorney.

    Like


  287. Naa obsid I did my part in real life already.

    But yea if you want to get apeman go for the gold.

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  288. Course still working the issue.

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  289. “As usual, this is a weird combination of simple common sense — (don’t be a pushover, say no once in a while, don’t pay for everything, be decisive) — and mean shit (harming a defenseless cat, making her feel fat if she isn’t, withholding sympathy).

    Why?

    Assertiveness is not aggressiveness. You don’t have to be a nasty person to project confidence.”

    This is how I feel. Half the stuff roissey writes has me nodding, the other half wondering ‘who acts like this’?

    I would go so far as to say that it’s the truly confident people who very rarely act like assholes. Aggressive behavior is so often about insecurity, in men and women.

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  290. obsidian

    what if the woman follows Nicole SImpson and starts using your money to live in your house with her trash-boyfriend?

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  291. @ JAM

    no youtube at work

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  292. Esquire on that shit. Holy Fuck I haven’t seen that concise a definition ever.

    Like


  293. I think that one just ended all race threads we can go ahead and just copy and paste now.

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  294. on August 12, 2009 at 5:11 pm The Fifth Horseman

    doug1,

    though I think that peaked in the 1990’s for girls and has been receding fairly rapidly for the younger of them, if less so for propagandized guys, since. By now at least though, many of them know that isn’t where their biggest thrills come from.

    The best piece of news I have heard in weeks (IF true, a big if…) was when ‘Bonnie’ said, a few days ago, that women 25 and younger were detaching themselves from feminism and even use the word negatively.

    I have no idea if this is true, or if Bonnie meant to say what we interpret it as, but if true…… we might just be seeing the equivalent of an Al-Anbar awakening against Al-Qaeda.

    Obsidian,

    W/all dues respect to my White & Asian (Including Indian) brothers here, I gotta say, one of the main reasons why you have so much trouble from your Women is because they know you ain’t gonna do nothin’. If they, on the other hand, know that you will be GONE if they don’t get a handle on their BS w/the quickness, things will change.

    I may agree in theory, but it is all too hard to do in practice, particularly for a high-income man who spent his whole life getting to where he is.

    Feminists know this, that is why they were able to push the divorce and child support trojan horse as far as they have.

    Don’t forget that a woman can make up a BS domestic violence complaint that will land you in jail, and exclude you from future corporate jobs. This is worse than merely losing assets.

    It really is damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    Now, absconding from the US and never returning is possibly the best option, all things considered.

    Like


  295. @Bonnie,

    Appreciate the attempt at mediation.

    But ahh woman shouldn’t have cats anyway.

    Like


  296. Allright ok ok ok

    The race talk is kind of fun.

    Allright

    ””””””””””’gig
    obsidian

    what if the woman follows Nicole SImpson and starts using your money to live in your house with her trash-boyfriend?””””””’

    Allright yea oj got disrespected when a woman fucked a white dude in his house.

    I am finished though.

    Seriously done.

    Like


  297. Are you guys threatened by cats because they are alphas?

    Like


  298. on August 12, 2009 at 5:16 pm The Fifth Horseman

    doug1,

    I just find it amazing that we’re letting this happen. A whole lot of it is the media blackout, or severe spin.

    The more I ponder this, I think this is because this is the ONE area where the faggotty left and the Christian Right agree.

    The left creates manginas, metrosexuals, etc.

    The right still sermonizes about how women are angels and men are bad. They have no idea that their moral code is nothing against judicial incentives. They have not evolved over the last 50+ years.

    That is why, I think, for all its flaws, the only real antidote is the Islamic community starting to make demands that Sharia laws apply for Muslims, rather than feminist family law. PC lefties will give in to these demands (as they already have in Britain), while many burnt Beta men will convert (on paper) to Islam to get better divorce laws.

    This is the only hope, really.

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  299. Come on now joe your moving the goalposts he he he

    I don’t really expect you to apologize for him though.

    But at least admit.

    Umm….guns? “moving the goalposts?”

    Reading comprehension time guns. Here’s what I said, pay attention to the bolded parts:

    I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong. If you guys can link to some comments showing some anti-white or pro-black trolling track record by black military man then I’ll agree with you. At least something on par with the “mu’min loves fat women” guy, who you guys seem to ignore. that guy is way worse than anything i’ve seen BMM post.

    Note the usage of word “commentS” (as in plural), “track record” as in an ongoing thing, and “on par with ‘mu’min loves fat women” guy” meaning I expected your answer to be comparable to what that guy does.

    Now please tell me how I moved the goalposts? What I said in response to your answer were the EXACT SAME GOALPOSTS I GAVE BEFORE YOUR ANSWER.

    So save your “he he he” for when you actually score a point. Thanks. I hate when guys give inadequate responses then gloat like they said something great.

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  300. No bonnsie I am not threadened by cats. They are beta. No seriously though they will eat you when you die alone in your house not pretty stuff. Highly suggest giving up the cats.

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  301. Come on now joe your moving the goalposts he he he

    I don’t really expect you to apologize for him though.

    But at least admit.

    Umm….guns? “moving the goalposts?”

    Reading comprehension time guns. Here’s what I said, pay attention to the bolded parts:

    I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong. If you guys can link to some comments showing some anti-white or pro-black trolling track record by black military man then I’ll agree with you. At least something on par with the “mu’min loves fat women” guy, who you guys seem to ignore. that guy is way worse than anything i’ve seen BMM post.

    Note the usage of word “commentS” (as in plural), “track record” as in an ongoing thing, and “on par with ‘mu’min loves fat women” guy” meaning I expected your answer to be comparable to what that guy does.

    Now please tell me how I moved the goalposts? What I said in response to your answer were the EXACT SAME GOALPOSTS I GAVE BEFORE YOUR ANSWER.

    So save your “he he he” for when you actually score a point. Thanks. I hate when guys give inadequate responses then gloat like they said something great. I didn’t move the goalposts, you just weren’t bright enough to see them.

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  302. Gig,
    Such a thing wouldn’t happen to me because if I couldn’t have the house I PAID FOR, then she couldn’t either. Period.

    Esquire,

    E: Not eager to get the race-war going full-steam here, but … Obsidian, outsde SWPL circles, white people don’t like blacks. Not hate, not wanna kill/enslave, but they don’t like all the affirmative action mumbo-jumbo, the Obammessiah rhetoric and, above all, they associate blacks with violent crime they fear and music and popular culture they can’t stand.

    O: So? Maybe Whites should funnel their angst and anger into making a pop culture people wanna buy. Stop hatin’. Black folks know how to make things hip, cool and popular, and we all know it. Don’t like it? Do the American thing and make a better mousetrap, and stop bitchin’ and Man the fuck Up, is what I say to my whiny White brothers. Good luck with that.
    E: But this ain’t whitey, it’s everyone. It’s the whole damn planet. People basically like people like themselves (ethno-raciallly, religiously, etc), and dislike different sorts to varying degrees. Actual hate is the exception, but loving others not like you is confined to self-loathing SWPL types.

    O: Maybe. But that’s not the point of contention in this thread. The point is, that when Race comes up, the ONLY PEOPLE CALLED ON IT are Black and/or non-White folks. Meanwhile, White guys, who only seem to be here to make incendiary remarks of the worst kind about Black folk, do so w/impunity by the rest of the White readership. Which again leads me to conclude, that if they don’t tacitly agree with them, they don’t have much of a problem w/it at least. Pot, meet kettle.
    Both Black, btw. 😉

    E: I’ve traveled the world, and I’ve never seen a less “racist” society than the USA. Whites are astonishgly tolerant of blacks, given the appalling de facto war blacks have waged on whites since the mid-1960s (which we tactfully call “crime” – in Iraq, we’d more honestly call it “civil war” or “uprising”).

    O: Well, what about the defacto “war” Whites waged on Blacks FOR DECADES, in the form of Jim Crow, and before that, Slavery? Which “war” was worse? Please explain? As I recall, the Riots of the 1960s hurt Black folk more than anyone else, as they happened in largely Black areas. So again, I fail to see your point. Please clarify?

    E: So, I’m sure a lot of whites are racists by your definition, but so is everyone else. And blacks are the most racist Americans, on average, in my experience as a federal agent and attorney.

    O: First off, I don’t recall calling anyone here a racist in this thread, nor did I indict Whites as a whole as racists. Moreover, my question to you is, on what basis do you accuse Blacks on average, as being racist? Please explain?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  303. Tood/TFH

    The best piece of news I have heard in weeks (IF true, a big if…) was when ‘Bonnie’ said, a few days ago, that women 25 and younger were detaching themselves from feminism and even use the word negatively.

    What they mean by that is the women who self identified as in the feminist movement on their college campus. They don’t mean the feminism that’s embedded in the “post feminist” media and schools/university mainstream these days.

    They DON’T mean affirmative action for women. Not really. Maybe only some strident or extreme aspects of it, but not the constant push that get’s them favored over slightly better men every time. They don’t mean the right to accuse men of “hating women” if they get to anti mainstream feminism. They don’t mean they want to do much to change the divorce laws that so favor women and give they some much power as soon as any man says I do.

    Ok, btw, prenups aren’t nearly as effective as I’d thought in not just a few but a great many states, and are perpetually at risk of legislative or judicial overturning, i’ve been learning with some more research. Things are getting worse and worse on the alimony front rather than better as they were a decade or so ago when I got divorced (no kids). It’s pretty horrifying if you look into it.

    Instead they mean they’re against the idea that all men are rapists or that dominant male sexuality is evil, if it’s also edgie and fun. That sort of thing.

    Like


  304. Gun: Thanks for the love, bro.

    5thH: Absolutely with you about the culpability of the right, as well as manic left, in all the current nonsense; they are decades behind the times and a real threat re: social issues like men and marriage/divorce (why anyone would believe in evangelical Christanity is another issue, but I’ll leave that to the mental health professionals). But be careful abuot Islam. They’re very good at keeping the beeyotches under thumbs, but only to give men more time to ass-fuck each other. Vote for Islam only if you want extra man-love. I don’t.

    Like


  305. on August 12, 2009 at 5:23 pm White Military Man

    test one two

    test one two

    Like


  306. on August 12, 2009 at 5:26 pm White Military Man

    If a bunch of white males started going to black clubs joe’s wife wouldn’t be worrying about what joe dide she would be looking at us.

    Like


  307. alls fair in love and war though I wreckin don’t you?

    Like


  308. Wow Guns, it’s amazing how you finish White Military Man’s sentences. 🙄 lol

    You guys are way too sensitive and emotional about this stuff. I’m out. On to the next thread.

    Like


  309. on August 12, 2009 at 5:30 pm The Fifth Horseman

    doug1,

    Ok, btw, prenups aren’t nearly as effective as I’d thought in not just a few but a great many states, and are perpetually at risk of legislative or judicial overturning, i’ve been learning with some more research.

    Uh oh. This is crazy.

    So my question remains, people from families of great wealth, who have both family assets and income of their own, what do they do? The Kennedy, Bush, Trump, and other families of less fame but great assets. These families have a lot of practice in thwarting gold-diggers. What do they do when their sons get married?

    If pre-nups don’t hold, what do they do?

    Like


  310. “The” Obsidian:

    Not gonna bother to reply in detail. You’re not worth it. I merely said what millions of non-SWPL whites think, and AA-addled blacks aren”t used to hearing the truth. Cry me a river.

    As example why you’re not worth a serious reply: the 60s urban riots happened in areas that were overwhelmingly black …. because the rioting was done by blacks. Or do you think it was DA MAN?

    And: anyone who has been anywhere near the CJ system, and/or doesn’t like in a cave, is well aware that blacks commit violent crimes at approximately 7-8 times that of whites (and certain crimes like rape is much more “colored” than that). It’s all in the DoJ stats if you care to look.

    Get about 50-60 IQ points, plus some facts, polish the English, and get back to me.

    “The” Esq.

    Like


  311. ””””’Esquire
    Gun: Thanks for the love, bro.”””””””

    No problem.

    The other three times I spoke to my company about the issue the counseler whatever asked me do I have goals I am like yea. Then the counseler insinuated I would not be achieving them if I pushed the issue. They couldn’t deny my points. See what I am saying? They could not deny the facts they could only steer me away from it. I also was asked if I wanted to be a martyr. I so far had chosen not to be so and was a pussy again in situation. Well now I have manned the fuck up.

    What I told them I wanted.

    I would like white males to have the same opportunity that I did to improve their lives while at the same time fulfilling what they may feel as the patriotic duty to there country.

    So yea good day.

    Plus not fired (yet)

    Like


  312. Great.

    Rules from a virgin about how to stay a virgin. It’s awesome that you actually did research so you’re not speaking out of your ass, Roissy. I’m not quite sure that Second Life really counts though.

    I do agree, however, that abusing a girl’s animals is a great way to demonstrate your Alpha status. Nothing says Alpha like someone with such acute insecurity that he has to beat on a cat.

    Doesn’t the fact that you need rules on how to interact with women reaffirm the fact that you are inherently a Beta? Or does faking and acting like someone else automatically make you an Alpha?

    Like


  313. Obsidan–

    And because I live in probably the easiest money making place in the history of human beings, it aint no thing for me to destroy anything I have to keep someone who’s proven they wouldn’t piss on me to put me out if I was on fire, from getting it. And then I’d go and get three hots and a cot, and call it a day. They can’t keep me in there forever, the jails are constantly overcrowded and I’d get out on that basis alone, if not become a cause celebre’.

    Don’t get married then Obsidian and don’t have kids.

    the problem isn’t just taking what you have. It’s requiring that you pay on the basis of what you were making when you had kids = child support=alimony+alimony proper if also married and making more than her, which later I realize as the kind of black man you are doesn’t apply to you. She makes more.

    When you’re in jail your CS=alimony continues to accrue. When you’re employed off the books and underground it does too. You’ll have to stay underground forever.

    Or never get identified as the baby daddy. Getting a cuckold wife’s kid preggers is good for that, if you’re playing the underhand game all the way.

    Like


  314. I’m convinced that there’s going to be a massive swell in cuckoldry including of the open and eventually reluctantly concensual type among gen Y. I regard this as a social travesty and sign of increasing decadence and societal breakdown as matriarchy gains more pervasive hold in the domestic sphere.

    @doug1 —

    Definitely. I think that the years ahead are going to see an explosion in polyandry — both hidden and open. I think that the reason for that is not only due to the leverage which you rightly point out that women have over their beta kitchen bitch husbands, but also demographic issues. Gen Y and later are having a huge mismatch in terms of education levels. If you combine that with hypergamy, we can see that many women are not going to be able to find hypergamously suitable life mates. So I expect what you’re going to see is women opting for suboptimal, but non-exclusive, men: one man who is a good “Dad” type to help with the kids and be her kitchen bitch, while another is the sex machine alpha stud who rings her bell. And the men will sign up for this, why? Because for the beta kitchen bitch, it’s all he can manage –> all he brings to the table for women are his “Dad” like mate qualities, which will be a dime a dozen in the years ahead due to the oversupply of wimpy yet underachieving men. And for the alphaboy stud, of course she will be one of many he is fertilizing, so no skin off his nose if she is actually married to a compiant beta bitch. And if Mr. cuckold gets uppity, she has the family courts to keep him in line with the threat of completely ruining his life for 20+ years if he complains about her polyandry.

    I fully expect that this is what we are looking at in the years ahead.

    Like


  315. “What they mean by that is the women who self identified as in the feminist movement on their college campus. They don’t mean the feminism that’s embedded in the “post feminist” media and schools/university mainstream these days.

    They DON’T mean affirmative action for women. Not really. Maybe only some strident or extreme aspects of it, but not the constant push that get’s them favored over slightly better men every time. They don’t mean the right to accuse men of “hating women” if they get to anti mainstream feminism. They don’t mean they want to do much to change the divorce laws that so favor women and give they some much power as soon as any man says I do. ”

    Oddly, I think women who identify as feminists are more likely to oppose the things you mention here.

    Your average girl who thinks feminist is a dirty word is much more likely to be a card-carrying ‘princess’.

    Like


  316. “No bonnsie I am not threadened by cats. They are beta. No seriously though they will eat you when you die alone in your house not pretty stuff. Highly suggest giving up the cats.”

    My 80-lb dog will eat me first. Then he’ll eat the cats.

    Seriously though, cats are the personification of an alpha as roissey describes it. There’s no way to make a cat give a shit. Whereas dogs, if you’re doing it right, are always your beta.

    Like


  317. Just giving an example joe since he was talking bout dudes wife.

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  318. That is why dogs are alpha they will eat you while you are alive. Cats will only eat ya after you die.

    Like


  319. Remember this dogs have the capability of killing you hence like men.

    Cats do not have capability of killing you hence more like woman. Now of course if you search online there are quit a few woman killing men situations.

    Like


  320. on August 12, 2009 at 5:44 pm The Fifth Horseman

    doug1 wrote :

    the problem isn’t just taking what you have. It’s requiring that you pay on the basis of what you were making when you had kids = child support=alimony+alimony proper if also married and making more than her, which later I realize as the kind of black man you are doesn’t apply to you. She makes more.

    When you’re in jail your CS=alimony continues to accrue. When you’re employed off the books and underground it does too. You’ll have to stay underground forever.

    Cosign. It is FAR more than just losing your saved assets. MUCH, MUCH more.

    The ONLY out is to leave the US for a country that will not extradite you, and never return.

    It is beyond dehumanizing. And yes, I think it is just as bad as the Jim Crow laws that blacks faced circa the 1950s. They were not slaves anymore, but still were second class under the law.

    The same thing is true here.

    Like


  321. “The Esquire” (See! Told ya how Black folks always set the “cool” tone),

    E: Not gonna bother to reply in detail. You’re not worth it. I merely said what millions of non-SWPL whites think, and AA-addled blacks aren”t used to hearing the truth. Cry me a river.

    O: Yet you write a semi-detailed rant. Quite pithy. The real reason why you’re not gonna bother writing a “detailed reply” is because YOU CAN’T. And your namecalling speaks to this truth. So Feminine.

    E: As example why you’re not worth a serious reply: the 60s urban riots happened in areas that were overwhelmingly black …. because the rioting was done by blacks. Or do you think it was DA MAN?

    O: I’m not arguing such a point, merely responding to your trope about Whites being so deathly afraid of Black folk and thn your mentioning the riots of the 60s as if to make your point. But, you see, joke’s on you, because, like I said, the only people really impacted by said riots were Black people. Who did the rioting? That’s easy-Black people did it. Now we can go into the reasons why, historical points, etc. But the points I just noted above are indeed documented and renders your thesis inert. Sir.

    E: And: anyone who has been anywhere near the CJ system, and/or doesn’t like in a cave, is well aware that blacks commit violent crimes at approximately 7-8 times that of whites (and certain crimes like rape is much more “colored” than that). It’s all in the DoJ stats if you care to look.

    O: Yup, and Black folk do more time, longer sentences and are on Death Row, too-in other words, Black criminals are definitely being take care of. But even more to the point, listen now, Barrister, THE NUMBER ONE VICTIMS OF BLACK CRIME, ARE BLACK PEOPLE. For some strange and odd reason (see Dr. Alvin Poussaint, Harvard), White folks simply cannot get their heads around that FACT. I wonder if that has anything to do w/IQ or not?

    E: Get about 50-60 IQ points, plus some facts, polish the English, and get back to me.

    O: Peshaw. This ain’t a college classroom, nor are we writing thesis papers. Don’t like how I write, don’t read it.
    And please, don’t get me started on the IQ stuff. Them Right Enders got some stuff that stinks, too…starting w/their inability to get laid…

    The Obsidian

    Like


  322. Obsidian–

    So? Maybe Whites should funnel their angst and anger into making a pop culture people wanna buy. Stop hatin’. Black folks know how to make things hip, cool and popular, and we all know it

    Yeah. It’s primitive jungle music. Lowest common denominator. Takes zero brains to appreciate, only a sex drive.

    The world would do just as well, at least, without it. Same thing with no black running backs or wide receivers. Sure they have a competitive edge there. How has that made the world richer or more comfortable? In the absence of blacks, white guys would fill those roles at the peak of competitiveness then available, with no loss of entertainment value, or only the tiniest bit. It’s just that there’s always a push to have the best that is available.

    In contrast, lose Thomas Edison or John Faraday or Darwin or Newton or Gordon Moore or Andy Grove of Intel, or the Wright brothers, or James Watts of the steam engine, and on and on and on, and we wouldn’t be communicating on this forum or jetting around the world or calling people overseas for cents or free on Skype and on and on and on.

    If all the people with IQ’s under 80 (provided they were raised in high nutrition and with reasonable amounts of intellectual stimulation available to every american with a tv and access to grade school gets) somehow mysteriously died tomorrow, the world would be a much better place. NOT that I’m proposing any sort of genocide against the dumb. Just sayin. (Yeah we’d do fine without Muhammad Ali, though I’d regret losing him.)

    Like


  323. on August 12, 2009 at 5:46 pm The Fifth Horseman

    This aforementioned question is for both doug1 and Esquire :

    So my question remains, people from families of great wealth, who have both family assets and income of their own, what do they do? The Kennedy, Bush, Trump, and other families of less fame but great assets. These families have a lot of practice in thwarting gold-diggers. What do they do when their sons get married?

    If pre-nups don’t hold, what do they do? They definitely do SOMETHING.

    Like


  324. Yeah. It’s primitive jungle music. Lowest common denominator. Takes zero brains to appreciate, only a sex drive.

    @doug1 —

    Have to say I agree here.

    Part of the problem is the concept of “pop culture” itself. It’s an absurdity, because in reality what it means is plebe culture, the lowest common denominator. The cultural arbiters used to be the elite, and while that has some problems as well at least it wasn’t plebe culture. Plebe culture is inane and reinforces stupidity for the most part (whether produced by blacks or whites, for that matter).

    Like


  325. “Gen Y and later are having a huge mismatch in terms of education levels.”
    This is true.

    But what can be done to both slow and eventually close this gap?

    The widening achievement levels both educationally and career-wise between the current and next generations men and women is alarming.

    Doesn’t bode well for high-achieving women, or women who can make do in general.

    This “daddy-beta” + “alpha lover” set up is not ideal. I think most women, including myself, want one in the same.

    Like


  326. Obsidian–

    Black criminals are definitely being take care of.

    Not enough.

    we need more racial profiling.

    We also need to let the public (white and asian middle class and above educated folk) know the truth through the media that they’ve been propagandized (lied to) not to believe in the PC schools and media.

    Like


  327. Obsid not sure if you have been able to peruse the below yet but I think it answers all questions.

    ”””””””’on August 12, 2009 at 5:03 pm Esquire
    Not eager to get the race-war going full-steam here, but … Obsidian, outsde SWPL circles, white people don’t like blacks. Not hate, not wanna kill/enslave, but they don’t like all the affirmative action mumbo-jumbo, the Obammessiah rhetoric and, above all, they associate blacks with violent crime they fear and music and popular culture they can’t stand.

    But this ain’t whitey, it’s everyone. It’s the whole damn planet. People basically like people like themselves (ethno-raciallly, religiously, etc), and dislike different sorts to varying degrees. Actual hate is the exception, but loving others not like you is confined to self-loathing SWPL types.

    I’ve traveled the world, and I’ve never seen a less “racist” society than the USA. Whites are astonishgly tolerant of blacks, given the appalling de facto war blacks have waged on whites since the mid-1960s (which we tactfully call “crime” – in Iraq, we’d more honestly call it “civil war” or “uprising”).

    So, I’m sure a lot of whites are racists by your definition, but so is everyone else. And blacks are the most racist Americans, on average, in my experience as a federal agent and attorney.
    ”””””””””””””

    Like


  328. “The” Obsidian: Getting laid plenty, thank you. And I was mocking the “cool negro” with the “the” thing, FYI — but I guess irony is a “white” thing (or high-IQ thing? isn’t that the same?).

    🙂

    P.S. The IQ stats are well established and of long-standing. Nothing new, just not PC to say so for the last 40 years. Also, blacks are NOT the primary victims of black criminals – whites are. Again, read the DoJ stats. I gotta run and go revel in my rich-white-guy-ness.

    Like


  329. ”””””””The Fifth Horseman
    This aforementioned question is for both doug1 and Esquire :

    So my question remains, people from families of great wealth, who have both family assets and income of their own, what do they do? The Kennedy, Bush, Trump, and other families of less fame but great assets. These families have a lot of practice in thwarting gold-diggers. What do they do when their sons get married?

    If pre-nups don’t hold, what do they do? They definitely do SOMETHING.””””””””

    Yea fifth important point because exactly why so much freedom has been taken away with the ability to pass anything down to the kids. Everything is always about the children according to most of the battle cries but yet when divorce happens and income gets split between two households who ends up with jack at the end the children.

    Like


  330. Doug,
    Joe aint lyin, y’all guys sure do like to change the goalposts…kinda reminds me of you and Whiskey’s “The Wire strike” because it fucks up all your carefully constructed rants and grievances. Sad.

    Yo, if you really believe what you’re saying about the NFL, I’ll tell you what: you go and ask the guys who actually own the teams, and ask them if it’s an laughing matter, or if it don’t make a difference, etc. Same deal w/music. Hip Hop is a MAJOR global cultural force, and y’all just mad Black guys are getting paid.

    So, don’t worry, nobody’s trying to come at Watson or Edision, neither ain’t done nothing to Black folk. Just sayin’, stop hatin-make a better pop cultural product that people-WHITE PEOPLE-wanna buy, and you can put all that stuff to bed.

    Right quick.

    O

    Like


  331. @Doug
    I’m wondering what is this “primitive jungle music” you’re discussing.

    ((On the one hand, If you’re referring to hip-hop/rap music, I’d agree 80% on it’s jungle nature (b/c some of it is primitive, although some of it is innovative and beneficial in expressing class strugles).

    On the other hand, hope you’re not attributing hip-hop and rap music as the only great musical achievements of blacks… don’t have to delve too far into the world of jazz or opera to see what I mean, or the roots of blues, country, and rock. And if you want to get literary, Harlem 1920s anyone?))

    And tossing the low-IQs out of our society will equal disaster.

    Any developed nation is well-supported by a lower-thinking / achieving class. They fill niches that the middle to upper classes won’t fill.

    Like


  332. ”””””””Dreamer
    “Gen Y and later are having a huge mismatch in terms of education levels.”
    This is true.

    But what can be done to both slow and eventually close this gap?”””””””””””

    fuck closing the gap let the genie out of the bottle.

    Like


  333. The widening achievement levels both educationally and career-wise between the current and next generations men and women is alarming.

    Doesn’t bode well for high-achieving women, or women who can make do in general.

    This “daddy-beta” + “alpha lover” set up is not ideal. I think most women, including myself, want one in the same.

    @dreamer —

    I realize that most women want one and the same, but that’s pretty much not going to be on the table in the next couple of generations. So women will either opt for single motherhood, or the kind of loose polyandry I described. Even if the trend could be turned, it won’t be turned fast enough to impact the rising generation and the one right behind it.

    I don’t expect that the trend will be reversed soon. I think there are complex reasons for it, including (1) elementary schools where things are skewed in favor of girls in various ways, making boys feel that they simply are not meant to excel, and that academics is “girl stuff”, (2) a lack of male role models due to both (a) high divorce rates and (b) lack of male teachers due to very high risks of false accusations being made, (3) an overall emphasis on academics in education from the earliest ages, often coming from parental pressure, which adversely impacts boys because of developmental differences (boys are not ready as early as girls are), (4) a retreat by boys into sports and video games as two of the only areas left where boys are allowed to be boys, and where they can expend some of their mental and physical energy.

    I don’t see much of that changing anytime soon. Feminist groups like AAUW are busy writing “studies” to justify the status quo, and I fully expect that the feminist lobby will vigorously block any attempt to make elementary schools more boy friendly in any comprehensive way. At the same time, I don’t see divorce rates going down, so the lack of male role models will continue to be a large factor here. And I don’t see boys and young men getting out of sports and video games, because I don’t see the culture making other spaces where they can be boisterous energetic boys. So I think this trend is going to be with us for a few generations at least, if not many more.

    Of course, for the few men who do get educations and higher degrees, it will be an absolute bonanza. They will be the most in demand group of educated men in several generations, because their female peers will outnumber them so drastically.

    Like


  334. This might end up being a great time to be alive after all. We just might get our great war.

    Like


  335. — THE NUMBER ONE VICTIMS OF BLACK CRIME, ARE BLACK PEOPLE.

    That’s y’alls’ internal business. But when that shit spills over to our world, it becomes our business.

    — Well, what about the defacto “war” Whites waged on Blacks FOR DECADES, in the form of Jim Crow,

    Jim Crow was not “war.” It was a detente based on a peaceful separation of races. Its primary porpose was to protect lower class whites from blacks’ predations. It had its obnoxious aspects, but what we have today is far worse. Because blacks, with exceptions, have not lived up to their responsibilites as free men.

    — and before that, Slavery?

    Slavery back then was the norm around the globe, and still is in parts of Africa. Besides, it allowed future generations of African slaves to live as men in America and not as savages in Africa.

    — As I recall, the Riots of the 1960s

    Riots of 1960s was a white-elite engineered intifada against working class and ethnic whites, resulting in these whites’ being ethnically cleansed from thier homes and neighborhoods. Turning Great American Cities into a thousand Detroits.

    — hurt Black folk more than anyone else, as they happened in largely Black areas.

    Black folk have a track record hurting everything and everyone around them. So tell me again why others should want to live alongside them?

    Like


  336. on August 12, 2009 at 6:01 pm The Fifth Horseman

    I agree that higher-income women, with good backgrounds, are also among those who are going to get screwed.

    All that is needed is for 20% of men to decide that marriage is not worth the risk. This, of course, is Horseman #4. What happens then is :

    1) 100 women are competing for every 80 men.
    2) All but the prettiest women are in fierce competion for a man.
    3) High-income women, who tend to not seek a husband until after 30 anyway AND need a man who makes the same or more as them, face an even smaller pool.

    Thus, they are screwed. Hopefully they realize that feminism screwed them (just like black racecard victimologists screwed everyday average blacks).

    Like


  337. I don’t know how you do it here, Obsidian.

    “Remember this dogs have the capability of killing you hence like men.

    Cats do not have capability of killing you hence more like woman. Now of course if you search online there are quit a few woman killing men situations.”

    The only reason housecats can’t kill you is because they weigh 10 lbs. Dogs that weigh 10-20 lbs can’t do shit either. Pound for pound, cats are much stronger and more dangerous. To take it back to nature:

    Wolves, jackals, coyotes, dingoes, wild dogs, foxes=few recorded human deaths in the last century (mostly of infants), few attacks.

    Cats (pumas, lynx, tigers, lions, leopards, bobcat) attack thousands every year, kill hundreds worldwide every year.

    You can’t control a bigger cat for long. It will eat you. 100-lb dogs, though, are like melted butter with a dominant human.

    Like


  338. cept this time civil war between men and woman

    prove equality.

    Men walk off all jobs.

    And chill the fuck out.

    Like


  339. Need to fight that war first maybe

    Like


  340. Nationwide male strike for a month see what happens.

    Gain some fucking respect.

    Like


  341. So bitches don’t intrude when your trying to have some black and white fun

    Like


  342. Families with real money and some smarts ….

    1. Try and get their sons to marry the best women they can find, not the usual gold-diggers.

    2. Get solid pre-nups put together.

    3. Have good lawyers, and lots of them. Taking on the Kennedys (I can speak from a little experience, mostly indirect) is like taking on the Feds – they can always afford more and meaner lawyers than you can, plus they have the press on the payroll to smear the hell out of you. Faster than your lawyer can say, “Time to settle!”

    The law – especially family law – isn’t about justice, gents.

    Gotta run to the harem …

    Like


  343. Dreamer–

    But what can be done to both slow and eventually close this gap?

    I say what can be done frequently, and in the aggregate, in detail.

    Read more of my posts that address these things with more attention and you’ll have your answer. Or go back and read them in comment threads even over the last few weeks. These will always be found in long comments of mine.

    Like


  344. Then after the bitches are in check we can have our version of male fun

    Like


  345. Dreamer,
    You know what’s so interesting to me? Listening to middle aged White dudes trying to “school” somebody on what Hip Hop is. LOL!!! Most of these guys couldn’t tell you the first thing about the subject, but, because they White, they word is supposed to be Law or somethin’.

    Right now I’m listening to Common, one of his best albums in my view: Like Water For Chocolate. I DEFY Doug, Nova, or Esquire to actually LISTEN to it back to back, and then we can have a much better informed convo about the merits of Hip Hop.

    SMH…when will our White brothers get it?

    O

    Like


  346. Dreamer

    don’t have to delve too far into the world of jazz or opera to see what I mean, or the roots of blues, country, and rock. And if you want to get literary, Harlem 1920s anyone?

    I agree about those styles Dreamer. Most of them were a melding of black and white styles though (not so much blues, which I love in reasonable doses), especially jazz, which had it’s roots among semi classically trained mulattoes in New Orleans at the turn of the 19th century.

    As well I think there’s a place for the simple and drivingly sexual.

    Like


  347. @novaseeker:

    “I realize that most women want one and the same, but that’s pretty much not going to be on the table in the next couple of generations.”

    Unless men see a benefit in incorporating both parts of themselves into one package.

    Face it, a beta male is a man who has been tamed and weakened by society. An alpha sounds like one who falls into all of his deeply animalistic desires. Some of these things on the list (animal abuse anyone?) are a huge turnoff, but it seems like a number of women nowadays will fall for anyone who isn’t entirely weak and doesn’t have impaired masculinity. The result is the extreme end of the spectrum, the alpha.

    If a beta male figures out how to be an alpha, teaches himself to be one, he can be astonished at his newfound power and become the extreme alpha, or practice asshole game.

    Some guys do mix both nice guy and alpha (My boyfriend does it knowingly, actually =x) but if you don’t see the benefit to it, or don’t really think it’s worth it, or want to play the field more, then you might just go for mutliple one night stands and polyamory and what not. Or if you don’t believe any of it is true, then you might just remain in blissful denial until your wife cheats on you and forces you to raise another man’s child. To put it in Freudian terms, some men are all superego, other men are all id.

    Like


  348. Tood/TFH–

    All that is needed is for 20% of men to decide that marriage is not worth the risk.

    What matters is for high status high achieving (as opposed to bad boy low achieving) alphas to decide against marriage.

    George Clooney is my hero.

    Like


  349. ””””””’Doug
    The world would do just as well, at least, without it. Same thing with no black running backs or wide receivers. Sure they have a competitive edge there.”””””””’

    See you come up with shit as truth but you don’t know. What if only blacks got put into reciever position in grade school and then high school and then college and then pro. Kind of like QB’s. Yea would kind of make difference wouldn’t it.

    Like


  350. Yeh, doug, you advocate reversing AA for women. But I’m thinking more in terms of putting the focus on men and don’t deal w/ women. Programs, measures that bring in good role models and heighten their pride.

    @The Fifth Horseman
    Unfortunately, you’re right. A higher-earning woman will have difficulty finding a mate. The problem w/ women, IMO, is expecting a) a same earning mate and b)waiting until 30.

    Like


  351. Like yea black kids not getting put into position of qb from grade school. So yea gonna have an impact on who can be chosen for qb for pro won’t it?

    Like


  352. Like if all the sudden all the grade schools start with black qb’s. Who do you think would then be all the pro qb’s?
    This of course can happen. Then in future people be like yea man blacks make best qb’s because they are all black.

    Like


  353. on August 12, 2009 at 6:18 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Esquire,

    Thanks, but that leave many gaps in the story.

    1. Try and get their sons to marry the best women they can find, not the usual gold-diggers.

    But a large number of women become gold-diggers over time. What a person is on the wedding day is not an indicator of what they are 5, 10, or 20 years hence, given the incentive the law provides.

    2. Get solid pre-nups put together.

    Wait, but in the past you said that these don’t hold if the marriage has been several years long (which is precisely when it is needed). The longer the marriage, the more at risk the man is (except for when the kids are at adulthood).

    3> Ok, forget the very top (Kennedy’s, Trumps). What about people of wealth ($5 million or so) but who are not extremely rich and not famous? What do they do? Surely they must be able to do something.

    doug1, your thoughts are requested as well.

    Like


  354. Or look at who college recruiters pick. You don’t think they have any criteria other than how good the person is?

    Like


  355. BTW, those that think that having tight LTR game in marriage or I’ll now say even game in marriage with prenups can reliably protect them from the ongoing trends of feminist family law and judges are fooling themselves.

    Yeah game will make it way less likely that you’ll be taken to the divorce court cleaners and a prenup will work except as judges chip away exceptions to it and then the law changes and ex post facto sweeps away large chunks or all of it.

    But then so far as divorce in the first place goes, as an alpha with game you’re very likely to cheat after a few years unless you can get her to accept one way open with rules, but with non black chicks in the US despite what Obsidian says that is a MAJOR challenge and a pinnacle to game. (It requires careful mate selection as well. Just because she says one thing to being with doesn’t mean it will stay that way once she has feminist family court power behind her and feminist gf’s constantly working on her.)

    Like


  356. on August 12, 2009 at 6:21 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Dreamer,

    Unfortunately, you’re right. A higher-earning woman will have difficulty finding a mate. The problem w/ women, IMO, is expecting a) a same earning mate and b)waiting until 30.

    In my situation, I am still a man who wants to have kids, probably more than most guys. But I really can’t afford to marry a woman who makes less than $200K, mainly due to how severely I would get punished under the divorce laws, if she made less than that.

    Hence, her income is a pre-requisite for me to marry at all, given what the laws are. Even at that income, I would have to pay a lot of child support, but the amount is less and the risk gets down to palatable levels…

    Like


  357. Yea bonnie but woman ain’t putting cougars in their houses. They are becoming cougars. Guy get dogs that can eat people. Look at the chick in nyc that got eaten in the hallway.

    Like


  358. Doug,
    Please name the White Jazz Trumpeter who comes anywhere close to Louis Armstrong? Miles Davis? Lee Morgan? Wynton Marsalis?

    Please name the White Jazz Sax-Man who comes close to Bird?

    It’s pretty much established that in the Rock n Roll world, Hendrix, Bo Diddly and Chuck Berry defined the guitar. Both Prince and Michael Jackson owe a HUGE debt, not to Elvis (who himself got his ish frm Black folks) but to the Godfather of Soul-James Brown.

    Please name the White version of Stevie Wonder? Or Ray Charles? Or who had the Bass Baritone like Barry White?

    I mean, really, c’mon y’all-American Pop Culture, especially when it comes to fashion styles and music, really comes from African folks. From the Banjo to Bee Bop to Biggie Smalls, Black folks ARE American popular culture, and worldwide, folks wanna BE like US.

    I’ll hold here. Would love to see what Doug comes up with.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  359. Tood you still trying to get married in us?

    To a woman who makes 250g’s.

    Man that is a challenge to find a good one of those.

    I have seen a lot of those woman it is not pretty.

    Like


  360. Unless the guy was a big part of making them what they are. There was a feminine jewish chic that seemed to be ok. But if you think your gonna get a nice woman that makes 250g’s naa dude gonna be a manly wench. Unless you create a woman from scratch to make 250g’s. Then she owes her status permanently to you. She can always change mind but still owes you at fundamental level.

    Like


  361. on August 12, 2009 at 6:26 pm The Fifth Horseman

    doug1,

    What matters is for high status high achieving (as opposed to bad boy low achieving) alphas to decide against marriage.

    George Clooney is my hero.

    It will be a combination of Omegas (like David Alexander) and some alphas who avoid marriage. The middle 80% (Betas) will continue to be the suckers.

    In the case of some Omegas, they will resort to crime, etc. In the case of alphas or otherwise high-income non-marrying men, it will result in high-income women (particularly those in the 6-8 looks range) being totally shut out of marriage prospects.

    Thus, hopefully, this group might do what it takes to turn the tide someday.

    Like


  362. Unless men see a benefit in incorporating both parts of themselves into one package.

    @Mandy XD —

    Sure, but that’s only going to be a handful of men. If that were a likely future trend to any significant degree, we’d already see a LOT more of it than we do now. What we will see is more Game, that’s true, but those are the guys who will be filling the sex slot and not the dad slot.

    Like


  363. Dougs love of jazz is hillarious I would love to see that too obsidian.

    He also loves typing your name lol

    Like


  364. @Obsidian
    Right… hip-hop is a multi-faceted genre. I cringe at certain garbage but guys like Common and Lupe have something to say, rappers are political and social commentators, and hip hop of the 80s/90s is altogether different from some of the noise/garbage that has come out in the past 10 years or so. But it would take a true appreciator to separate the noise from the culturally significant works. Understandably, guess it’s much easier to label the music as primitive, given that some of the worst of the genre gets the most airplay.

    Like


  365. @Obs
    Wow… yeh couldn’t have said it better.

    Like


  366. ””””””””””The Fifth Horseman
    Esquire,

    Thanks, but that leave many gaps in the story.

    1. Try and get their sons to marry the best women they can find, not the usual gold-diggers.

    But a large number of women become gold-diggers over time. What a person is on the wedding day is not an indicator of what they are 5, 10, or 20 years hence, given the incentive the law provides.

    2. Get solid pre-nups put together.

    Wait, but in the past you said that these don’t hold if the marriage has been several years long (which is precisely when it is needed). The longer the marriage, the more at risk the man is (except for when the kids are at adulthood).

    3> Ok, forget the very top (Kennedy’s, Trumps). What about people of wealth ($5 million or so) but who are not extremely rich and not famous? What do they do? Surely they must be able to do something.

    doug1, your thoughts are requested as well.
    ””””””””””

    The only way to be safe without doing gun prenump is to build up your woman as you build yourself and create dual halves of the team that support the team. So if it is 5 mil and she blows her half shes fucked.

    Like


  367. Dreamer–

    Yeh, doug, you advocate reversing AA for women.

    That’s only one part of what I advocate.

    I advocate a pervasive program to maximize learning for boys to the maximum amount possible.

    In my private grade school they had separate classes for boys and girls in the same school. Common recess. Think maybe boys got an extra one that was just them. Worked well. The PR then was that it was for girls, and I think that’s what they really thought. Maybe it’s for both. Don’t know how long this should continue, certainly not into most colleges.

    Lots more tolerance for boys acting out. Encouragement of their rebellion as long as it’s channeled into being smart. Stand up and stretch in class half way through.

    Allow mild male acts of dominance against each other and against girls. Some middle level boys boys rough housing. Basically reset the clock 40-50 years, though not in all respects.

    As well pay more attention to aptitude tests than grades, especially those of teenagers. College ones matter more for professional schools. How diligent you were in high school really doesn’t matter or predict squat. How smart you were by then though does. Colleges used to look at things that way a whole lot. They mostly don’t now do to NAM/women advancement pressures, rather than predicting where are most brilliant and inventive or best leaders will come from.

    Women by and large make good diligent followers and bureaucrats at all levels including very high ones (with some kinds of lawyers being sort of warrior bureaucrats and women taking the more bureaucratic and least warrior roles there too), not creative inventors in any field or charismatic leaders. Of course there are always exceptions. Overlapping bell curves.

    Like


  368. And oh yea horseman extreme wealthy families are more than likely doing a version of gun prenump. Look at diana.

    Like


  369. Think princess diana was going to get half.

    Yea that is some funny shit.

    How are they ever gonna reconcile that one?

    Well she did marry the king and so is entitled to half his estates lol

    Like


  370. I’ve said it before, but I’ve got to say it again –

    What evidence is there that ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ behavior is even influenced by society, much less caused by it?

    Like


  371. Oh yea and obviously yea feminists do like black men better so what are ya gonna do about it?

    Like


  372. @novaseeker:

    “Sure, but that’s only going to be a handful of men. If that were a likely future trend to any significant degree, we’d already see a LOT more of it than we do now. What we will see is more Game, that’s true, but those are the guys who will be filling the sex slot and not the dad slot.”

    Unfortunately. :/

    A beta could see the benefit of incorporating both parts, but he could see even more benefit in going all the way. Especially if he wants to catch up on everything he’s missed.

    Like


  373. on August 12, 2009 at 6:38 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Obsidian wrote :

    From the Banjo to Bee Bop to Biggie Smalls, Black folks ARE American popular culture, and worldwide, folks wanna BE like US.

    While full credit has to go to black musicians in the pre-gangsta era, it is total crap that ‘worldwide, folks wanna BE like African Americans’.

    Utter nonsense. Blacks, particularly black Americans, are poorly regarded worldwide. Never mind that what the world, in fact, hates about America is the influence of American pop culture. Even the President of Mexico said derogatory things about US blacks.

    Blacks dominate only 2 fields : Music and sports. No other field has evidence of black contribution in it. From this, a huge leap in logic about the prestige that US blacks carry overseas.

    It is a very mainstream theory across the continent of Asia (ME + South Asia + East Asia) that blacks are not the same as the rest of humans, and are the most recent step in evolution before modern man.

    I am not saying this is right, but it is a pretty mainstream belief in Asia, which people talk to each other about in a matter of fact way. There are textbooks and museums with exhibits regarding this.

    Of course, Obsidian will simply say “I don’t care what they think”, which is bogus since he is so heavily invested in his earlier myth of ‘and worldwide, folks wanna BE like US.’

    Do some research about what is said about black people in China, India, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc. As Dr. Zaius told Charlton Heston “Don’t look for it. For you may not like what you find.”

    Like


  374. nobody cares bonnie seriously that was weak

    Like


  375. Yea, and while we’re on that note:

    Maybe Doug or Esquire or Nova can give us a White equivalent to Marvin Gaye? Or Issac Hayes? Both huge musical talents who went on to score movies-Trouble Man for Gaye, Shaft for Hayes (the latter of whom I think won a Grammy-Gaye would go on to win a Grammy right before he was killed).

    Still waiting…

    The Obsidian

    Like


  376. Need a man strike for a month.

    Like


  377. Don’t be so hard Mu Min the feminists love em

    Like


  378. Dreamer

    Any developed nation is well-supported by a lower-thinking / achieving class. They fill niches that the middle to upper classes won’t fill.

    That’s why I said 80 IQ rather than 100. That and I’m not trying to wipe out 2/3 of blacks even by thought experiment.

    It’s really the dumb and high T who are the most dangerous. Probably around 90 IQ and high IQ is the region of most dangerous, though anyone high up in an organized crime hierarchy is likely to be at 120-130 or so.

    As IQ rises among the high T, their chances of doing well and really better in business go up, esp. in such things as high value sales. Though I’m telling you, these divorce law changes which keep getting worse behind the scenes, as they sweep into popular conciousness despite the dam of the entertainment media against that, are going to just thoroughly disincentivise more and more men to go whats’ become and ever more becoming the sucker route: 1) pursue making lots of money and having status in a conventional way as part of your route to attracting girls and 2) get married and have kids.

    Dissincenting that is great for society, don’t you think Dreamer?

    Like


  379. But yea mu min that shit does hit it.

    Who knows what to do with that knowledge though?

    I only know that 9 of em can do the job of three.

    Like


  380. on August 12, 2009 at 6:44 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Maybe Doug or Esquire or Nova can give us a White equivalent to Marvin Gaye? Or Issac Hayes? Both huge musical talents who went on to score movies-Trouble Man for Gaye, Shaft for Hayes (the latter of whom I think won a Grammy-Gaye would go on to win a Grammy right before he was killed).

    Sinatra, Elvis, Beatles, Stones, etc.

    But blacks do dominate music disproportionately. The main point of Obsidian’s BS is that dominance in music = being loved worldwide as a community.

    People worldwide also love Babe the Pig, Koko the Gorilla, Shamu the Orca, Jumbo the Elephant, Knut the Polar Bear, and Ophelia the Octopus too. That does not mean that poaching of these animals stopped.

    Shaft for Hayes

    I wrote a song devoted to YOU, to be sung by Isaac Hayes to the shaft music. You have received a special honor.

    Like


  381. oh and the 9 didn’t come out of my ass either.

    That is what the ratio is of my former all minority camp is to the one that is all white that I am presently at.

    Like


  382. Well ok at least the workers. And helpers an in indians shit like that are at a ratio of 4 to one. So really white guys owning that shit. They should be getting 4 paychecks for saving so much money. So as you see hiring ain’t about profit and it ain’t about money.

    Like


  383. It is all about hiring minorities.

    Like


  384. @Mu’min
    I don’t think Obs. meant that people want to be black. Black culture/ attitude is emulated by all races, including white. Other races may not want to literally be black, but they do emulate the cultural attitudes.

    For example, you named the Beatles, Sinatra, Elvis and more in your equivalents to black music legends. However these bands emulated black sounds and influences. Goes back to Obs. original point.

    Like


  385. “It’s pretty much established that in the Rock n Roll world, “Hendrix, Bo Diddly and Chuck Berry defined the guitar”

    Actually it’s kind of funny that three of the greatest guitar pioneers in the 20th century were women.

    (Mother) Maybelle Carter (who along with her sister and brother-in-law essentially invented country music)

    Memphis Minnie (influential blues singer and guitarist )

    (Sister) Rosetta Tharpe

    Not traditionally beautiful these three ladies were nonetheless gifted with divine innovative talent, a much rarer commodity (even if it’s not much appreciated here).

    Like


  386. As per usual, ish gets twisted here. For the record, please note how the entire PLANET grieved the loss of Michael Jackson. Or, how White folks LOVED Louis Armstrong, or Marvin Gaye, or Stevie Wonder, or Ray Charles, or Tupac Shakur…I could go on, but by now I trust you see my point.

    It would be very interesting to see how many Mexican kids are rapping in Spanish and wearing their pants down low, lol.

    We already kno this is the case in the Middle East, Asia and India. Hip Hop can be see and heard in as faraway as Afghanistan.

    In the UK, White singers are judged by how Black they sound-two excellent cases in point-Rick Astley and Lisa Stansfield. I like both of them by the way.

    Music and Sports are HUGE multi-billion dollar making businesses. Anyone who scoffs at this is really an Ape.
    Oprah is loved worldwide by Women. We already saw the reception Obama got in every place he’s travelled w/the notable exception of Russia, a known cauldron of racist sentiment, confirmed by Nikita “Shoe Banger” Kruschev’s own daughter, on primetime tv.

    Go to china and ask about Michael Jordan, an holla back the results. Go to India and see if you don’t hear a form of Hip Hop blended in w/Hindi music-in fact, just about EVERY Bollywood musical now incoporates clear and present elements of Hip Hop into their dance and song routines. Go to the Middle East and see what the kids are into. Five will get you ten it AIN’T Country Music or Rockabilly.

    OK, let’s see Monkey Man try to make an even bigger fool out of himself than is simianly possible…

    The Obsidian

    Like


  387. Guys need to sit on asses for a month see waht happens to economy then maybe get some freedom from divorce bullshit so that they can plan for the future again.

    Like


  388. on August 12, 2009 at 6:48 pm Gunslingergregi
    oh and the 9 didn’t come out of my ass either.

    That is what the ratio is of my former all minority camp is to the one that is all white that I am presently at.

    on August 12, 2009 at 6:49 pm Gunslingergregi
    Well ok at least the workers. And helpers an in indians shit like that are at a ratio of 4 to one. So really white guys owning that shit. They should be getting 4 paychecks for saving so much money. So as you see hiring ain’t about profit and it ain’t about money.

    on August 12, 2009 at 6:50 pm Gunslingergregi
    It is all about hiring minorities.

    Like


  389. on August 12, 2009 at 7:06 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Dreamer,

    For example, you named the Beatles, Sinatra, Elvis and more in your equivalents to black music legends. However these bands emulated black sounds and influences. Goes back to Obs. original point.

    And blacks emulated sounds and influences from elsewhere too. Starting from the fact that electic guitars, electronic pianos, etc. were invented by white and Asian engineers.

    It would be very interesting to see how many Mexican kids are rapping in Spanish and wearing their pants down low, lol.

    They also have caricature comic strips for Memin Penguin.

    Obese-dian, you have lost this argument spectacularly. Being a consumer of music vs. wishing to be black are so far apart that it is laughable.

    Music and Sports are HUGE multi-billion dollar making businesses.

    The money gets made by white corporations and shareholders.

    Go to china and ask about Michael Jordan,

    A major Chinese newspaper said Condi Rice is a monkey, after her offical State visit to the PRC.

    Go to India and see if you don’t hear a form of Hip Hop blended in w/Hindi music-in fact, just about EVERY Bollywood musical now incoporates clear and present elements of Hip Hop into their dance and song routines.

    Are you certain you know what Indian people in India actually think of blacks?

    You steered clear of the point that in the entire continent of Asia, blacks are seen as 1 notch below humans. Much like Neanderthals were to Cro-Magnons. I’m not saying this is right, but you can’t accept this reality.

    If blacks are so admired in the world, and so unfairly treated in the US, why don’t blacks ‘vote with your feet’ and go to China, Japan, India, Iran, or Mexico where you will be a celebrity, as per your claim?

    The point that Obese-dian is afraid to address is :

    Liking a product produced by blacks is NOT the same as wanting to be black, or even interact with blacks. Just like liking Shamu the Orca does not mean that children want to become Orcas.

    Get it?

    Like


  390. Tood/TFH

    Hence, her income is a pre-requisite for me to marry at all, given what the laws are. Even at that income, I would have to pay a lot of child support, but the amount is less and the risk gets down to palatable levels…

    The good news is that in Cali, child support is actually among the lowest in the nation, maybe THE lowest, I discovered by running some numbers over the last few days. There’s a hitch. The hitch is that alimony is also absolutely routine in Cali, including for working women, anytime they earn any signficant amount less. I get the impression that significant means noticeable. They have a complex formula but it’s plug in modelled on the web. Google California child support calculation.

    The key is to realize when plugging in numbers that what they mean by “net income” for those purposes is after tax, basically pay check income (if that’s how you’re paid). Makes a huge diff for high earners. I ran at several different income levels but relevant to you I think is that at 250k with 2 kids and 20% visitation time (every other weekend, some holidays plus a week or two in the summer) it’s 30% of your AT income if she doesn’t work and I’d estimate 20% if she earned close to you. However if she didn’t work you’d also owe alimony for half the length of the marriage it it’s less than 10 years, and if over 10 years maybe forever if she can’t ever earn comparably to how you did when she divorces you. Even if she blatantly and outrageously cheats. That would bring it to 46% of your AT. Maybe for the rest of your life unless she’s dumb enough to remarry or can find someone who makes as much or more than you to marry her. If she did own close to you it’s that 20% until they’re 19 period end of story.

    At 500k it’s 25% CS and 40% total w/alimonyif she has zero income. You’ll have to run it yourself to see what would happen if you’re at 500k and she’s at 200k. YOu will have to pay her alimony. Don’t know if it would be forever. If so you should preemptively divorce her after 9 years. I’m serious. Lifetime alimony? Hey, you could tell her it’s just business and you’ll move back in in a year. Consult your lawyer though. That might make new, bad, law.

    Like


  391. Now, let’s takeup Hip Hop itself. Earlier, I was enjoying the lyrical stylings of Common, his album Like Water For Chocolate. At present I’m listening to Mos Def, his debut effort, 1999’s Black On Both Sides. The album actually deals w/what we’re talking about right now, the real creators of Rock n Roll (Mos Def is a founder of a rock band called Black Jack Johnson, I believe, btw). Mos is yet another example of wide acceptance of both Hip Hop and Black folk worldwide.
    He also talks about the very real problem of a shortage of usuable/drinkable water on this disc, “New World Water”. Who says rappers can’t be deep?

    As for Monkey Man’s citing of Sinatra, the Beatles and Elvis…LOL! I already noted that Elvis most definitely got his ish rom Black folks, and so did Sinatra and the Fab Four, too. Keep in mind, Sinatra in NO WAY was smoother than Nat King Cole, and the Beatles? Ape Asshat need to go do his research, to their Liverpool days, and find out what they were listening to.

    Smh…when will they get it?

    O

    Like


  392. When Asians, Muslims, Mexicans or Easern Europeans rap, it’s not because they admire American blacks; they are just using a musical form to express their own views and politics. Nothing to do with blacks.

    Just like when Muslim terrorists use dynamite or Somalis use AK-45s, they are using them as tools for accomplishing thieir goals, not as a tribute to Sweden’s Alfred Nobel or Russia’s Mikhail Klashnikov.

    Like


  393. Quick note: I posted a comment on female guitarists (fun fact: 3 of the most influential guitarists in the 20th century were women).
    Unfortunately I stoopidly included youtube links which means it’s waiting ‘moderation’ which means it might take a while to show up here, but check the links out for some great old American music.

    Like


  394. Tood

    The alimony formula, not in a plug in but in my spreadsheet, to use is: spousal support/mo. = (his A.tax mo income) – CS – (1/2 (her A.tax mo income) * 40%)

    That’s actually the formula that LA and Orange counties have published they recommend judges use to set interim child support pending resolution of divorce, but I get the feeling that it’s the basic thing they use in Cali period, with exceptions, probably usually some add ons, like special needs.

    Like


  395. Yea PA I invented rap no joke. I was like 3 years old rapping. So blacks stole that shit from me. I want my fucking money.

    Like


  396. They took that shit from the irish.

    Like


  397. Black singers are good when they try to restrain their africanness and sing to non-black sensibilites. Or to put it differently, when blacks’ unusual resonant voice is filtered through non-black cultural tastes.

    Blacks free to do their own thing a 100% becomes either ugly rap, or the hideous caterwauling of today’s R&B.

    Like


  398. PA,
    I actually saw a documentary on Hip Hop’s influence some years back, and part of it was done in your former country, in those big grey project looking Soviet era apartment blocks-“blokies” I think they call em? Or something like that.

    Anyway, what the young Poles had to say about Hip Hop would directly challenge your comments above. They revered guys like KRS-ONE, Rakim, LL Cool J, and so on.

    I’m just sayin.

    O

    Like


  399. (I meant AK47s earlier; 45 was a typo)

    One thing I can not stand is when white singers do this yodeling thing. I think it’s called note-bending. Mariah Carey will get a few extra years in Purgatory for popularizing this infamy.

    It’s horrible. All American Idol singers do this crap when auditioning. Thankfully most cut it out and sing normally when they advance.

    Like


  400. on August 12, 2009 at 7:20 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    PA wrote :

    Black singers are good when they try to restrain their africanness and sing to non-black sensibilites. Or to put it differently, when blacks’ unusual resonant voice is filtered through non-black cultural tastes.

    True. I’ll be the first to say that the Jackson 5, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Ritchie, Diana Ross and others are among my favorites.

    So why have black people stopped producing tasteful music? Does black = delinquent now? No wonder Bill Cosby is so disenchanted.

    Like


  401. They revered guys like KRS-ONE, Rakim, LL Cool J,

    it’s not difficult to “revere” from afar 😉

    Like


  402. PA said:

    “Black singers are good when they try to restrain their africanness and sing to non-black sensibilites. Or to put it differently, when blacks’ unusual resonant voice is filtered through non-black cultural tastes.

    Blacks free to do their own thing a 100% becomes either ugly rap, or the hideous caterwauling of today’s R&B.”

    OK. Please compare Dolly Parton’s “I’ll Always Love You” to Whitney Houston’s rendition. Then go to Wikipedia and see which one sold more copies.

    The.

    End.

    O

    Like


  403. on August 12, 2009 at 7:24 pm Cannon's Canon

    “Understandably, guess it’s much easier to label the music as primitive, given that some of the worst of the genre gets the most airplay.”

    Hip hop is absolutely primitive. Rap music is regarded as a testosterone display and marketed as such. “Social” or “political” consciousness is a fringe ingredient of some hip hop that merely expands the target demographic from 13-34 year old males. Even “eclectic” rappers like A Tribe Called Quest focus on sexual conquest, physical dominance, and general bravado in their songs.

    Common without a Primo beat is interchangeable with 100 other rappers, as is Lupe without a Kanye beat. They are big label moneymakers, not some enlightened voices of a new age of empowerment. Get the fuck outta here.

    Like


  404. Tood

    Note in Cali the percentage of AT get better the more you make. They’re taking care of their movie stars out there.

    At 250k, which is really center upper middle class in the coastal Cali, if she doesn’t earn your cs + alimony will be 54% of your AT, rather than the 40% at 500k. That could be as much as 40% for life in a long marriage if she can’t work or more than pennies or like 30% for life if she can make only 1/2 of what you made at divorce. Note alimony doesn’t go up as your earnings do, unless maybe she develops special needs. Cali is increasingly saying you have to take care of your wife who cheats on you and leaves you or you kick out after 12 years of marriage, at close to what she became accustomed to, for the rest of her life.

    If you marry her.

    You can prenup that away.

    But not if she’s sick when she divorces you, the courts have fairly recently opined.

    This is a good site for some highlights of cali domestic law:

    http://la-family-law.com/2009/01/enforcement-of-pre-marital-agreement-waiver-of-spousal-support/#more-149

    Cali CS calculator:

    http://www.alllaw.com/calculators/childsupport/california/

    Like


  405. PA

    They revered guys like KRS-ONE, Rakim, LL Cool J,

    it’s not difficult to “revere” from afar

    O: Nope, it, like my point about The Wire to Doug and Whiskey, totally obliterates your notions. I know it hurts.

    😉

    O

    Like


  406. Naa o there ain’t no end white man standing up bro just like you wanted. You are the one who gave me the courage to be one of the first.

    Like


  407. on August 12, 2009 at 7:25 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    I already noted that Elvis most definitely got his ish rom Black folks, and so did Sinatra and the Fab Four, too.

    This claim is based on what, exactly?

    Ape need to go do his research, to their Liverpool days, and find out what they were listening to.

    So if the Beatles listed to one black musician (off of a vinyl record which is a technology invented by white Thomas Edison), then automatically all their music is copied off of blacks?

    So ALL music ever produced in the world (whether the Beatles, Sinatra, Russian Ballet, or Bollywood) is derived from blacks, as per Obese-dian the ASStrologer. The reverse is never true, of course.

    You collapsed rather fast today, Obese-dian.

    Like


  408. Thanks for the wake up call to my duty to my white brothers.

    Like


  409. Thanks for allowing me to see whites as a team not as just other people.

    Like


  410. Dolly Parton’s “I’ll Always Love You” to Whitney Houston’s rendition

    I like Parton’s much better. It has a touch of that incredible soul of white folk that for some reason found a lot of expression in Appalachian cultures. Some of those songs can break your heart. As a white guy I feel it, though it may be alien to you.

    For the same reason, I don’t begrudge your liking Houston’s version. It strums your chords better.

    Like


  411. One less thing to regret on the deathbed and we all know about regret.

    Like


  412. on August 12, 2009 at 7:34 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Obese-dian wrote :

    OK. Please compare Dolly Parton’s “I’ll Always Love You” to Whitney Houston’s rendition. Then go to Wikipedia and see which one sold more copies.

    OK. So compare the Bee-Gee’s ‘Staying Alive’ to the rapped over version of that from the 90s.

    Of course, anecdote’s that support the belief’s of Obese-dian the ASStrologer (a fat fetishist) count, and countering anecdotes do not.

    Plus, he avoids the main point. His 2 bullshits are :

    1) All music is inspired by blacks, whether Beatles, Sinatra, Elvis, Bollywood, etc.

    2) Consuming black music (which is ALL music as per 1) = wanting to be black.

    I say the above 2 are false.

    Like


  413. on August 12, 2009 at 7:35 pm Cannon's Canon

    As I have explained before, rap music remains prominently black because black men are the best marketing vehicle for testosterone, NOT because they are better suited genealogically to rap.

    Freestyle and scratching competitions have grown to be dominated by whites and asians over the past 15 years. Not just equally represented, but dominated.

    Personally, I wish I could truly fall in love with Eon, Evidence, Eyedea, El-P, or any other white rapper whose name starts with an E’s complex punchlines about psychedelic drugs and monsters. I give them extended spins, but in the end, I’m always going back to Young Jeezy telling me that between me and him, he’d rather flip bricks. Ten syllables per bar. It is just the capitalist in me.

    Like


  414. Tood-

    Wait, but in the past you said that these don’t hold if the marriage has been several years long (which is precisely when it is needed). The longer the marriage, the more at risk the man is (except for when the kids are at adulthood).

    At the moment prenups mostly work for 1) property division and 2) waiving alimony in NY and Cali. More NY than Cali but both. They don’t work a lot of places for alimony, though they may be able to reduce it a lot from the standard the courts are moving back to (before women had feminist work and when women never got any of your property in divorce only alimony when she wasn’t a cheater) = the standard she had grown accustomed to. Or as close as they can squeeze out of a man, never mind that he has to live at a lower standard. At least that’s the case if she has his kids. If she doesn’t the courts might not go beyond equalizing but I’m guessing there.

    True joint custody as a way out of paying any child support is FAST disappearing. Forget it in NY and Cali, and Michigan, model home of modern child support formulas and hence very influential.

    Like


  415. on August 12, 2009 at 7:36 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Obese-dian,

    So let’s go further back. Which black musicians inspired Beethoven, Bach, Stravinsky, and Tchaikovsky?

    Like


  416. Please notice how Ape Asshat engages in all manner of rhetorical sleights of hand here.

    In response to my point about the clear as day musical dominance of African Americans, he cites that the record player, trombone, trumpet, etc, et al, were invented by White folks.

    Yup, they were. And…?

    Classic non-sequitur, folks. Who invents something isn’t at issue here, the issue was whether African Americans have made immeasurable and invaluable contributions to the American Songbook, if you will. By even the most casual perusal, the answer has to be, YES.

    Next, note how he tries to dodge my point about Bollywood musicals, something we call can easily gain access to. Better yet, listen to the soundtrack to Slumlord Millionaire-I defy anyone to tell me that ain’t a Hip Hop sound.

    And then checkout how he tries to slide past my point about the worldwide acceptance of Oprah Winfrey by noting something dispariging about Condoleeza Rice. I never mentioned Rice, and he never actually refuted my point about Oprah.

    See how this works?

    This is why, while the Monkey comes close to a Man’s IQ, he don’t quite get the cigar.

    Oh, and if Cannon’s listening, I think you missed my point, which was that Common and Mos Def (I never mentioned Lupe Fiasco, he’s aight, but not really my shot-The Roots, though…) are considered “thinking brotha’s rappers” and are quite widely regarded in the community, and that Doug and othr ignorant critics of Hip Hop need to give em a listen before they render a final judgment.

    But I do agree w/you, Primo do a Common or Mos Def track real nice…

    O

    Like


  417. music thread who gives a fuck. It is about jobs not music. talk about real shit or go the fuck on.

    Like


  418. Music sports music spots like a mantra.

    Like


  419. on August 12, 2009 at 7:42 pm The Fifth Horseman

    doug1,

    So even if you get a pre-nup, if the laws change afterwards, your pre-nup is retroactively nullified.

    Ugh.

    This needs to become the new civil rights movement. People gather for stupid ‘Tea Parties’ to protest taxes, but this is the most unjust ‘tax’ of all. That energy has to be channeled by a new leader for men’s rights. The factions on both sides are similar to what they are in the Tea Party vs. pro-Obama camp anyway.

    Gunslinger is right, 1 month of a strike would do a lot (particularly if the strike includes policemen).

    We need a leader. Someone who gets it, but also can become a big leading luminary on the issue. Both the left and Christian Right will condemn the guy, but any man who has ever been screwed will see hope.

    True joint custody as a way out of paying any child support is FAST disappearing.

    In what way? The father gets no custody at all?

    Like


  420. neither one of those gonna make you rich obsid. Neither one of those gonna set you free.

    Like


  421. I truly love a lot of American Black music up until the early 90’s when nihilism took over the warm humanism that had embodied soul (and even part of disco) was exorcised in favor of the calculated anti-social and spiritually dead decay of hip hop.

    I even like some isolated examples of early 90’s rap, but overall hip hop hasn’t ever produced anything life affirming or uplifting or healing the way that Black performers routinely produced from the 30’s thru most of the 80’s.

    Like


  422. on August 12, 2009 at 7:44 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Let’s use small words to Obese-dian can follow :

    Obese-dian claimed :

    I already noted that Elvis most definitely got his ish rom Black folks, and so did Sinatra and the Fab Four, too.

    This belief is based on what, exactly? I expect an answer.

    Like


  423. Yea fifth horseman

    Exactly we become men as a team and the bullshit don’t matter.

    Just stop working for nothing.

    Stop working to survive only.

    What the fuck will it matter.

    Like


  424. Tood-

    However the courts keep trying to find ways out of prenups waiving child support. Or many judges do. And then that becomes the “leading” judgment and others follow. Things are moving in that direction.

    E.g she waves CS in a prenup. Cali courts have recently decided that it’s unconscionable to respect that waiver if the unforseen circumstance of her becoming diagnosed with cancer happens during the pendancy of a divorce but before it’s resolved. Hence the court used that as a “unconscionable” exception to not just require that the guy cover her medical insurance for life, but provide full alimony as though the prenup had never existed. They’re using any loophole they can find to shred them on alimony these days.

    Even when she cheats.

    The leading cases are never made in wife cheating cases.

    But then they’re applied to them, since no fault, not only in divorce but in all property settlement issues (but not in the man having a prayer at custody), applies.

    Family court is a feminist nightmare, I’m telling you.

    Don’t get married.

    Instead draw up a cohabitation agreement, live together, then have a “commitment ceremony”like it was a wedding if you like. Call each other “domestic partners”. Provide in the cohab agreement that all that does NOT constitute a wish to be considered married by EITHER of you and that it’s a condition of your relationship that you not so be considered or else you would never have cohabited.

    Really.

    I completely withdraw sanctioning marriage with a good enough prenup if you want kids. Do the above instead.

    The law is moving. It’s clear as day. Getting worse and worse.

    Yeah it may make cohabitation even with the cohab agreement a nullity too, but what better can you do in this country if you do want a live together family? I mean legally.

    LTR game as per DFH, Roissy and PA, and I like to think a little me now and again, too. But DFH beats even Roissy so far on that.

    Like


  425. Toods

    Prenups waiving spousal support/alimony I meant.

    You can’t do ANYTHING in a prenup about child support=alimony.

    Like


  426. If you can’t plan shit based on any reasonable expectation from government then yea fuck it. Why help that same government with shit.

    Like


  427. Tood only thing gonna be certain it is going to get worse because people ain’t standing up. Just laying down and taking it in the ass.

    Like


  428. And while I’m here, of course blacks (and gay men) have a disproportionate amount of cultural influence in the US. That’s the usual case – it’s usually outsider groups (by definition not accepted by the mainstream) that are responsible for the most memorable popular culture (or counter culture). Gypsies in Spain (and Balkans), Celts in the British Isles, Turkic Muslims in China ….. That doesn’t mean the groups themselves are popular.

    Like


  429. You have to be careful about cohabitation, too. The laws vary widely, and are changing, too, as feminist family law advocates are noting the marriage strike and are looking to extract prolonged resource transfers from men to women on the basis of flimsier arrangements.

    A few Canadian provinces have laws like that, where if you live together long enough, you are de facto treated as having been married. There was a legal case in NJ a year or so ago which forced a man to pay support to his *mistress*. I’m not kidding. The tentacles are being spread way beyond marriage, and largely *silently*, as the snake silently coils around its victim. There are still places like Quebec and Florida where cohabitation is safe, but you really need to know what the law of your place is about cohabitation relationships are, and the rights of the parties upon the end of them, including whether any agreements relating to that will be enforced by the family courts.

    Like


  430. Lets start the fuck over. Still only take couple years to save loot and be back on top. But we need to reset this bullshit that is going on.

    Like


  431. Exactly nova,

    Men are not standing up and making statements. They are killing there wives and families but not making bigger statements than that. This shit will continue to get worse.

    Like


  432. ”””””””””””””’Instead draw up a cohabitation agreement, live together, then have a “commitment ceremony”like it was a wedding if you like. Call each other “domestic partners”. Provide in the cohab agreement that all that does NOT constitute a wish to be considered married by EITHER of you and that it’s a condition of your relationship that you not so be considered or else you would never have cohabited.

    Really.

    I completely withdraw sanctioning marriage with a good enough prenup if you want kids. Do the above instead.

    The law is moving. It’s clear as day. Getting worse and worse.
    ””””””””””””’

    Thanks for the sanity dougie.

    Like


  433. on August 12, 2009 at 7:54 pm Cannon's Canon

    Obsidian,

    That there are “thinking man’s rappers” is fine under the umbrella of rap music in general. Common, Mos Def, and the Roots are indeed “quite widely regarded in the community” but would not sell records without their fusion sound. Not coincidentally, these “thinking brotha’s rappers” are among the favorites of near every female “rap fan.”

    Still, you have said here yourself that in 2009, you are more likely to hear “Money, Power, Respect” while listening to cars pass than any of those intelligent rappers.

    That there are small facets of rap that have crossed over into mainstream sensibility does not discount the uninformed generalizations that hip hop is primitive. Personally, I embrace that primitive, raw testosterone vibe, perhaps even more because I can identify what it is.

    Like


  434. Started with seatbelts and people put up with it. Recently they got smokers to not smoke in resteraunts and their own bars. From that point you can tell people to do anything. Pretty soon it will be white men have to marry a black woman. Crazy shit gonna start happening.

    Like


  435. Cannon,
    Have you ever heard DJ Jazzy Jeff spin? Or DJ Cash Money? Both from Phily, which has a special place in the history of DJing. Just wanted to know what you thought if you did. Both these guys are well into their 40s and they most definitely still got it.

    Ape Asshat,
    I believe the answer you seek wrt Elvis can be found in his first producer, who was quite keen on capitalizing on the Black sound but in a White body, and found it in Elvis, who grew up on the sounds from the Black Church. A bit of Googling will do you some good there.

    Oh, and we’re not talking about Classical musicians, we’re talking about American pop culture and the role African Americans have played within it. I maintain that w/o Black folks THERE IS NO American popular culture. Now, if you disagree, I’d love to see examples.

    As for good Black singers in our time, you might wanna checkout the following:

    Jill Scott
    Anthony Hamilton
    Maxwell
    Joe
    Musiq Soulchild

    Just a short list. Good stuff in my view, I have em all on my playlist. Give em a listen.

    O

    Like


  436. on August 12, 2009 at 7:59 pm The Fifth Horseman

    doug1 and Gunslinger,

    Yes, it is bad. And getting worse. American men have won great wars, walked on the Moon, invented just about every modern technology, and build great corporations.

    But they have not been able to halt this, or even recognize the problem.

    Now, for some optimism :

    Once a critical mass of men (and a handful of mothers and sisters of those men) recognize the problem, it will change. Fast. We just don’t know when that will be.

    I have noticed that anything that is totally unbalanced can appear to be solid for a surprisingly long time. But then when it corrects, it corrects fast, and in hindsight, people wonder how such an imbalance lasted so long. We saw this with :

    1) The USSR
    2) Dot-com bubble
    3) Real Estate bubble
    4) Al-Qaeda (as far as we can tell)

    We will soon see this with the lopsided feminism laws. The Four Horsemen of Male Vengeance will manifest by 2020. They will. The next decade will be rough. But after that, it will be better.

    But we need a leader to start a movement similar to the Tea Party movement.

    Like


  437. on August 12, 2009 at 8:05 pm The Fifth Horseman

    I will also say that even students of Game, who have decent Game and LTR Game, cannot be expect to hold back so many hostile forces. From the courts to the media to the gaggle of friends who work on your woman, it is too much to ask of all but a tiny group of expert men, to depend on LTR Game as a defense.

    The Nasdaq climbed to 3000, 4000, and finally 5000 by March of 2000, before crashing fast. Today, a decade later, it is still 2000.

    The same will happen to feminism. Feminism is currently at Nasdaq 3500. The climb to 5000 will be painful and hair-raising for men. But the crash back to equilibrium will be swift.

    Didn’t a ton of guns (i.e. millions) get sold in the last 8 months?

    Like


  438. Cannon,
    Excellent points you make, and yes, you quoted me quite correctly-I have yet to EVER hear Common, Mos Def or The Roots, the latter being a homegrown group, be pumped outta the systems of SUVs and cars around the city by the Brothas. Never. Heard Beanie, Peedie Crack, Freeway, Cassidy, Jay-Z, the Lox, heck Run-DMC(!)-but never, ever, the “thinking man’s rappers”.

    And I think the reason has to do w/what you said, coupled w/the simple fact that the latter cohort actually rap about the gritty, “primitive” nature of life on the streets-brothas on the grind relate to that.

    Meanwhile, as you noted, and I noticed this too, the “evolved” rappers, and here we can include Kanye’ West, whom I’m deeply ambivalent about, are indeed more popular among female than male fans. He’s another one who’ve I’ve NEVER heard being played in the Brothas’ trucks. Just hasn’t happened.

    Now me personally? There’s room for both Mos Def and Mobb Deep. Common and Cassidy. The Roots and The Lox. I sup from both tables, and its All Good, because to me Hip Hop just mirrors Black folk and you got all kinds.

    I truly wish there was more informed White guys like you around, Cannon. Doug, Nova and Esquire seriously need to take notes.

    O

    Like


  439. Nova–

    There was a legal case in NJ a year or so ago which forced a man to pay support to his *mistress*.

    I haven’t read that decision but I have read about the case in detail. Actually what the NJ supremes did was rule that cohabitation wasn’t necessarily essential to determine a “palimony” obligation to provide alimony like (but usually not as bad) support. yes that’s a horrible development. But what that and every other successful palimony case in the country, mostly only Cali and NJ I think though Mass wouldn’t surprise men (NY doesn’t recognize except by written agreement), is an oral agreement express or implied to support the woman “forever”, or for some long time, etc. What will defeat every palimony case cold is a cohabitation agreement. Christ maybe you now need a fucking on the regular agreement in NJ. I’d certainly get one if she gets preggers, as a condition of continuing to see her/letting her move in, etc.

    Unlike marriage there are a lot fewer hoops to jump through probably. To super safe you’d want to have it meet prenup standards though. Just having ANYTHING in writing though, that clearly says in non legalize that nothing oral can change it only something else in writing, will defeat anything remotely hinted at in palimony cases so far however.

    Like


  440. on August 12, 2009 at 9:00 pm The Fifth Horseman

    I will also say that even students of Game, who have decent Game and LTR Game, cannot be expect to hold back so many hostile forces. From the courts to the media to the gaggle of friends who work on your woman, it is too much to ask of all but a tiny group of expert men, to depend on LTR Game as a defense.

    The Nasdaq climbed to 3000, 4000, and finally 5000 by March of 2000, before crashing fast. Today, a decade later, it is still 2000.

    The same will happen to feminism. Feminism is currently at Nasdaq 3500. The climb to 5000 will be painful and hair-raising for men. But the crash back to equilibrium will be swift.

    Didn’t millions of guns get sold in the last 8 months?

    Like


  441. on August 12, 2009 at 9:12 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Again, I have hope.

    If people can form large movements for Tea Party and Health Care town halls, they will eventually get around to this as well.

    The reason they haven’t is because both the Feminfaggot left and Christian Right are complicit in this.

    Like


  442. I dunno Fifth. There’s no real precedent for men doing a lick about female emancipation other than helping it along. Same stuff happened in Babylon, Rome, etc. Men didn’t revolt. The societies just eventually collapsed under their own weight.

    Like


  443. @doug1 —

    Definitely you need to know what the law is where you live on cohabitation (and even non-cohabitation relationships!) and how you can defeat a subsequent finding of an implied promise to support, by agreement presumably.

    N

    Like


  444. There’s no real precedent for men doing a lick about female emancipation other than helping it along.

    It was never so much of a threat to so many people as now.

    Same stuff happened in Babylon, Rome, etc. Men didn’t revolt. The societies just eventually collapsed under their own weight.

    Was that really because of female power?

    If that really is the case, then we would all be smart to start our preparations for moving to some Asian country that has a more natural view of gender roles. It is time to jump off the sinking ship.

    Like


  445. nova=

    You have to be careful about cohabitation, too.

    that’s why you need a cohabitation agreement that would completely work as a prenup and that imagines the law possibly getting worse retroactively. Say in it that it automatically covers cohabitation deemed to be marriage as well as though it were a prenup, though the intent is to not be treated as married. Things like that do work in law.

    Like


  446. on August 12, 2009 at 10:03 pm The Fifth Horseman

    But isn’t cohabitation just as bad as marriage because :

    1) Child support = Alimony trojan horse is the same if you have a kid, whether married or not.
    2) Creeping cohabitation laws.

    So asset division is really the only way in which marriage is worse than cohabitation.

    Like


  447. LR

    Besides it doesn’t matter because regardless of what anyone wants, women are not going to ‘change their minds’ so whatever…deal with it or move.

    It’s not a question of “women changing their mind” or their biology. It’s a question of which way the culture guides and contrains or doesn’t much constrain but does guide and so on.

    No human groups from the earliest tribes have had gina tingle for of girls be the only thing that determines who mates with who. We come closest to that in a few societies now than we ever have before.

    There should certainly be a whole lot of that. But also some strong pressures. Against the most valuable girls going with the biggiest social losers despite gina tingle for example. I.e big social scorn and outcast status rather than glam.

    We do do that to a considerable extent still. Maybe not enough. Certainly shouldn’t end.

    Celebrity and other high profile sluts should get shamed. Worst thing is dreck quality (male social worth wise).

    Like


  448. And the men will sign up for this, why? Because for the beta kitchen bitch, it’s all he can manage

    It’s one thing to pull a David Alexander and just be the helpful male friend who babysits once in a while and helps out in exchange to an emotional boost, but it’s certainly another to be married to a woman who blatantly cheats on you while you’re basically locked in and stuck caring for kids which probably aren’t yours by her choice.

    an overall emphasis on academics in education from the earliest ages, often coming from parental pressure, which adversely impacts boys because of developmental differences

    I’m inclined to view that as bullshit. My parents demanded that we excel at school, and the garbage answer that you’re spouting off makes little sense to them. We feared our parents and our only choice was to do well and damn it, we did well. And we went to Catholic School and we didn’t need male teachers to magically make us do well in school.

    A beta could see the benefit of incorporating both parts, but he could see even more benefit in going all the way.

    Alphas can’t be dads. They’re not warm and fuzzy. 🙂

    Like


  449. on August 12, 2009 at 10:15 pm The Fifth Horseman

    doug1,

    As far as the child support = alimony trojan horse, while a pre-nup cannot make any stipulations, what if….

    The pre-nup states that :
    1) All matters of custody are to be determined through a mediation panel of friends and relative from either side.
    2) If either party declines to participate in the stipulated mediation, then the legal fees for BOTH sides are to be paid by the party that filed for divorce.

    What this does is raise the cost for her to pursue the child support = alimony in the courts. The pre-nup does not shield the man from the child support = alimony, but does make her pay both sides’ legal fees. Since this is the case, she would feel it harder to go the court route.

    This makes her warpath one of more resistance. Deterrence is the best defense.

    It is not foolproof, of course, but it appears to be the only way to somewhat deter the child support = alimony slavery.

    Thoughts?

    Like


  450. Female Supervisors More Susceptible To Workplace Sexual Harassment

    “This study provides the strongest evidence to date supporting the theory that sexual harassment is less about sexual desire than about control and domination,” said Heather McLaughlin, a sociologist at the University of Minnesota and the study’s primary investigator. “Male co-workers, clients and supervisors seem to be using harassment as an equalizer against women in power.”

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090810025247.htm

    Like


  451. on August 12, 2009 at 10:29 pm The Fifth Horseman

    ‘Anonymous’ Feminazi,

    A bogus study concocted to further the Misandrist parasite agenda.

    Women are paid exactly the same as men in the workforce, for the same job, by the way.

    Feminists lie that women are underpaid, but no one with a basic knowledge of Econ 101 would believe this nonsense.

    The ‘women are underpaid’ myth is thoroughly debunked in Myth #2 here.

    Any questions?

    Like


  452. Tood

    I answered you mediation questions before. Both of them.

    Briefly. You can provide for pre mediation but can never prevent either party from in essence appealing to family court for a complete rehearing. Almost all divorce disputes no matter how bitter, except some custody battles, are resolved by negotiation between the lawyers anyway. Further your wife’s gonna do what he says regardless of what the mediation panel decides. you’re gonna pay her legal fees unless she’s got the ready cash to. Courts will be sure each side as equal ready fees for counsel out of the richer spouse’s hide. You can try to provide that any fees from her counsel get deducted from her settlement amounts (never child support). That’s a very good idea to keep YOUR side’s fees from getting to high.

    If you have money to some extent the beginnings of a lot of divorce proceeds are almost a conspiracy of the lawyers to rack up fees by catering to each client’s unrealistic expectations. The main purpose of arbitration would be to try to short circuit that noise. Around upholding a prenup hopefully.

    Like


  453. on August 12, 2009 at 10:31 pm The Fifth Horseman

    And what the hell does some ivory tower Femifaggot professor at the Univ. of Minnesota know about the corporate workplace?

    Men need to stop taking the high road and start creating bogus studies of their own. Except men don’t need to, the truth of anti-male misandry in America is horrid enough.

    Like


  454. Was that really because of female power?

    If that really is the case, then we would all be smart to start our preparations for moving to some Asian country that has a more natural view of gender roles. It is time to jump off the sinking ship.

    To a large degree, yes. The late Romans tried to tax bachelors to encourage marriage, but to no avail — the rising rights of women gave birth to a culture of hedonism, and men withdrew from responsibility. Sound familiar? Same thing happened in Babylon. And in Sparta, where women controlled the domestic economy (because the men were in the army), the birthrate continually dropped until it was below replacement level and the city-state was overrun.

    The key resource on this is the seminal book by JD Unwin titled “Sex and Culture”. He demonstrates, in each of the examples I have mentioned, how the deregulation of female sexuality and marital norms preceded very quickly a disintegration of the social norms, which led to an overall weakening of the society, making them vulnerable to being overrun by competitors. So very much it’s about the situation relating to women. Look up the book — a PDF version is available on the internet.

    It’s the sad truth. But of course today there are no strong patriarchal societies that would take the place of the West, right? Oh, wait …

    Like


  455. on August 12, 2009 at 10:36 pm Willard Libby

    Obsidian

    But he couldn’t handle JLo in my view. Puffy and Marc Anthony was more her speed.

    Affleck wanted kids and probably was pressured by family and friends to NOT have them with some fat assed Puerto Rican.

    Jennifer Garner is more to his family’s liking.

    Obsidian

    Oh, and we’re not talking about Classical musicians, we’re talking about American pop culture and the role African Americans have played within it. I maintain that w/o Black folks THERE IS NO American popular culture.

    That claim pretty much ONLY applies to music, most of which is complete garbage right now. And the contribution is not simply one way and coming from blacks.

    Last time I checked the piano, saxophone, electric guitar, electric organ and the recording and engineering technology necessary to create modern pop music was not invented by blacks. Same goes with harmonic progressions and many melodies.

    And many so called black songs were actually written by White folks – from Hound Dog to Killing Me Softly to Natural Woman. And hip hop has been ripping off Bob James and Jim Gordon from day one.

    Other than music the black contribution has been minimal and it’s trivial compared to the fundamentally White nature of American culture.

    Even in sports black pretty much only contribute bodies. The actual cultural contribution is minor.

    Properly understood, modern global civilization IS White culture.

    Fact is black folks obsess on and copy White culture every day. But the difference is White people don’t play the desperate black game of “notice me, look what my people are doing”.

    White folks aren’t forever claiming this and that White contribution, blacks do. If White folks did that it would take forever and still they would be shouted down as racist even by other White people.

    As Steve Sailer rightly pointed out White culture is so fundamental to the modern world that we only notice it when it’s missing.

    Like oxygen.

    Like


  456. on August 12, 2009 at 10:36 pm The Fifth Horseman

    doug1,

    Almost all divorce disputes no matter how bitter, except some custody battles, are resolved by negotiation between the lawyers anyway.

    Yes, but with the law as a guideline, unfortunately. The settlement cannot deviate too far from the law, as the side the law favors has no reason to settle.

    Courts will be sure each side as equal ready fees for counsel out of the richer spouse’s hide.

    But can’t the pre-nup stipulate that both sides fees are paid by the person who filed? The other party can contest this, of course, but that too is a hurdle they have to cross (which could lead to more favorable settlement).

    Like


  457. Tood–

    But can’t the pre-nup stipulate that both sides fees are paid by the person who filed?

    At most as an offset against settlement money.

    If the divorce court feels like allowing it. Which it probably won’t.

    That’s British civil suit rules, not American ones. Courts don’t like you messing with stuff like that by private agreement. I.e. I don’t know as a matter of fact but i strongly doubt it as a matter of American legal principles.

    Like


  458. @doug1
    Agreed. High profile “sluts” should face censure. Don’t understand the glorification of this stuff in the first place.

    But I hate that word “slut.” Ugh. So harsh.

    Like


  459. lol @ Willard Libby calling JLo fat.
    This woman is by far one of the most beautiful modern stars and is anorexic compared to the average American woman.

    Like


  460. on August 12, 2009 at 10:49 pm The Fifth Horseman

    It’s the sad truth. But of course today there are no strong patriarchal societies that would take the place of the West, right? Oh, wait …

    Even worse, some of us, myself included, even will welcome some presence of Islam, as long as it focusses on fighting feminism and faggotism.

    Islam would be bad for the West. But it would be a lot ‘more bad’ for feminists than for men and married women. Hence, I’ll take my chances with rooting for them.

    Like


  461. @Tood —

    Or the Chinese option. China’s also still mostly a patriarchal society, even after the cultural revolution and communism and so on. They have their own problems (too many men) which leads one to expect they may be looking to bleed off some of that male overhang. The traditional way to do that has been military. And we are their biggest debtor. Hmmmm.

    Islam, China, take your pick. But for the West it’s a matter of time, really, unless something very, very strange and unprecedented happens. That’s possible, of course, if not foreseeable.

    Like


  462. on August 12, 2009 at 10:53 pm The Fifth Horseman

    This woman is by far one of the most beautiful modern stars and is anorexic compared to the average American woman.

    That is because the average American woman is fat.

    If too many women become fat, men are not obligated to lower their standards of beauty. What you get is more men competing for the shrinking pool of attractive women, and more lonely and depressed fat women who vote Democrat so that the government can be their man.

    Like


  463. Joe

    I can think of only one black person who’s ever been on this site who constantly talks about race, much less usually in a baiting and undermining way (albeit with smoothness and sometimes subtlety), and that’s Obsidian. You don’t, Chic Noir doesn’t, I guess Ricky T did here but that was in joining Mu’min/Obsidian when they were in a race war with GNP is for Apes and Lurker and ScotchFiend I think and maybe someone else. Dreamer if she’s black doesn’t (she might just date blacks a lot) Nicole CERTAINLY doesn’t. Who have I left out that’s currently or fairly recently regular?

    GNP is for Apes and his various aliases is the main pro active baiter in the other direction, though others take on Obsidian from time to time, including me. Not I hope in a race baiting way.

    Like


  464. on August 12, 2009 at 10:57 pm Willard Libby

    Dreamer

    lol @ Willard Libby calling JLo fat.

    I didn’t say “fat”. I said “some fat assed Puerto Rican.”

    There’s a difference.

    Like


  465. on August 12, 2009 at 10:57 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Novaseeker,

    China’s fertility rate is actually lower than America’s.

    China will not have a hot war with the US. They can’t/won’t even seize Taiwan.

    White American conservatives have a birth rate above replacement levels. It is only SWPL lefties that have a super-low birth rate. They are the ones who deserve to vanish, of course.

    Don’t forget India. Through chance, it appears to be the one major country with a lot going for it.

    Like


  466. Joe

    Oh, Game in BK doesn’t either.

    Like


  467. Joe

    There have been one or two other white guys on here for awhile in that past that were pro active race baiters of blacks though. Not thinking who by name. Not people I read. Just saw Obsidian in battle with them. Maybe GNP by another name back then?

    Like


  468. Or David Alexander either. He baits on a lot of issues, but race is never one of them. Thus, he does not get any racial abuse.

    Like


  469. The traditional way to do that has been military. And we are their biggest debtor.

    Nous avons les bombs atomiques, and les Chinois ne sont pas Noir.

    Who have I left out that’s currently or fairly recently regular?

    David Alexander is black.

    Like


  470. India is another option, too, yes.

    The point is that there *are* competitor civilizations that do not embrace feminism. Just like every other time a society featuring female liberation fell, really.

    Future historians will chuckle at yet again how history has repeated itself and people seemed powerless to change that.

    Like


  471. DA: I think you should stop reading here. You’re getting angrier and angrier (worsened by life events) and you’re only making it worse by whatever you get out of these pages. I know you have zero kinship with Sodini but there’re ways and ways a man might take out anger that he doesn’t know what to do with.

    Therapy [careful, here], connecting with nature/railtracks, rediscovering religion and spirituality, whatever. Just get out of this venue, connect with the positive, relearn what’s enjoyable and valuable in life.

    Your visceral reaction to certain things (take for example any indication of the word ‘sub’ from a woman) is alarming, including the context of ‘well, they can have their alpha males, so there!’. There’re all sorts of women out there who have a different sexuality and/or expression of it.

    I don’t think you’re suitable for an LTR with the values you won’t compromise at the moment. Maybe the occasional ‘getting laid’, which might help you. But the aforementioned is just speculation, I wouldn’t know especially since you don’t seem completely honest.

    Remember that a lot of your presented worldview is for the purpose of proving to yourself that you you don’t want women and that you couldn’t get them even if you tried [including a comment to a coworker that you labelled as a neg and taking this as proof]. So, discussing Game — whether it works or not if properly applied — is not working for you personally.

    Stop doing this to yourself.

    I also wonder whether you see any value in connecting, investing in and taking care of a human being, or if this is just limited to women/humans who aren’t already family. I don’t know if it’s a product of materialism or male mentality or disillusion or gender politics or what. This is alarming because it is by no means limited to you if you look for it here or elsewhere and seems to be on the rise.

    Like


  472. The point is that there *are* competitor civilizations that do not embrace feminism.

    Then we must bring the feminism overseas as a sign of our glorious cultural superiority.

    Like


  473. on August 12, 2009 at 11:05 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Novaseeker,

    So our job is to choose the ascendant civilization that we can most easily adjust to, and go there.

    We are no more obligated to go down with the ship regarding the US, than we are obligated to stay at the same employer all our lives. When it becomes necessary, you make a switch.

    It takes courage. It is not easy. But if xsplat can do it, a lot of people can.

    Like


  474. So our job is to choose the ascendant civilization that we can most easily adjust to, and go there.

    We are no more obligated to go down with the ship regarding the US, than we are obligated to stay at the same employer all our lives. When it becomes necessary, you make a switch.

    It takes courage. It is not easy. But if xsplat can do it, a lot of people can.

    @tood —

    It’s becoming increasingly obvious that for many who can swing this, it is in fact the best option.

    Like


  475. Joe

    Oh. How could I leave out willard libby as race baiting blacks a lot?

    It’s not to be fair the only thing he does, nor is the reverse the only thing Obsidian does.

    Like


  476. on August 12, 2009 at 11:47 pm The Fifth Horseman

    Bhetti,

    That is very good advice you have given him.

    But he won’t listen. This is because he is self-loathing.

    I told him, months ago, to not come back here until he did 10 daytime approaches. Even if the approach was non-sexual in a ‘Hi, how are you?’ way. He ignored the advice.

    Tupac gave him a detailed development program that would help just about any guy starting out. No interest from DA.

    He won’t follow the constructive advice you have given.

    Like


  477. on August 13, 2009 at 12:22 am The Fifth Horseman

    doug1,

    From several comments back :

    The hitch is that alimony is also absolutely routine in Cali, including for working women, anytime they earn any signficant amount less.

    But a pre-nup can block alimony, until they change that law, so for now that can be avoided.

    I ran at several different income levels but relevant to you I think is that at 250k with 2 kids and 20% visitation time (every other weekend, some holidays plus a week or two in the summer) it’s 30% of your AT income if she doesn’t work and I’d estimate 20% if she earned close to you.

    That is odd, that with no income she gets 30%, but with equal income she gets 20%? Only a 10% gap on whether she works or not?

    If she did own close to you it’s that 20% until they’re 19 period end of story.

    Is it 19 or 21? And what about, if there are 2 kids, and the first one crosses 19, but the second has a few years to go; is the CS amount unchanged, despite only one of the two kids being minors?

    At 500k it’s 25% CS and 40% total w/alimonyif she has zero income.

    What if you get laid off from your exec job, and go to work for a non-profit at less money? Particularly since after age 50 or so, a lot of people do that to slow down?

    Like


  478. Just get out of this venue, connect with the positive, relearn what’s enjoyable and valuable in life.

    I don’t think I can anymore. The paranoia has set in and the brutal real world has kicked my ass.

    Your visceral reaction to certain things (take for example any indication of the word ’sub’ from a woman) is alarming, including the context of ‘well, they can have their alpha males, so there!’. There’re all sorts of women out there who have a different sexuality and/or expression of it.

    Yet, the general consensus of this blog is that women who have non-standard sexual tastes are basically a small minority, and that they’re easily written off and even they have standards.

    On the flip side, the “sub” concept just sorta eats away at the notion of what an adult should be. There’s this fixed notion of relationships as rigid formations of two adults working together to achieve mutually compatible emotional goals who are in the same age cohort, same class, same intelligence, with the same out look on life. The sub women just eat away at that concept. Plus, there’s that little voice in me that nags at the entire idea of anybody being a sub as being evil. It’s hard to explain, but it just induces feelings of anger within me.

    I don’t think you’re suitable for an LTR with the values you won’t compromise at the moment.

    I will never be suitable for an LTR and it’s due to so-called values. It’s generally because women can and should do better than me.

    Maybe the occasional ‘getting laid’, which might help you.

    Snicker. The wheel of excuses will develop and ensue enough doubt to spin a mind into generating electrical current. “She’s drunk/low IQ/insane/foreign/depressed/ugly/desperate.” is the name of the game.

    But the aforementioned is just speculation, I wouldn’t know especially since you don’t seem completely honest.

    No, I’m merely a compulsive liar that seeks to maintain a false wall around a shell of a bad sub-human male.

    Remember that a lot of your presented worldview is for the purpose of proving to yourself that you you don’t want women

    I finally admitted in several comments that I really couldn’t be bothered with the entire exercise. Hell, I think the fact that I’ve never asked a girl at some point is pretty much the easiest way to prove that I eschew women since they interrupt the dynamic of “home-work-home”. I have no problem with game except that I choose not to use it because I don’t want to become like PA or Dave.

    I also wonder whether you see any value in connecting, investing in and taking care of a human being, or if this is just limited to women/humans who aren’t already family. I don’t know if it’s a product of materialism or male mentality or disillusion or gender politics or what. This is alarming because it is by no means limited to you if you look for it here or elsewhere and seems to be on the rise.

    “I want what’s mine for myself and fuck everybody else”.

    I don’t know anymore. Maybe I can and it’s just my disillusionment at the world that’s complicating things. Since I’ve never been in love, I can’t really answer that question honestly, and that’s even with growing up watching my dad work god knows how many hours of overtime to support our family so my mom wouldn’t have to work and we could go to Catholic school and not go to babysitters. Or maybe it’s all amplified talk, or just simply a backlash to the idea of being taken advantage of as a beta chump. There’s still that little part of me that wants to make it rain cash for my niece and nephew so they can be comfortable. Hell, non-date isn’t offering me sex, and yet at times I want to spoil her with cash as well so she can be happy.

    Like


  479. Even if the approach was non-sexual in a ‘Hi, how are you?’ way.

    Why do you want me to bother people that I don’t know or freak them out?

    Tupac gave him a detailed development program that would help just about any guy starting out.

    It gets in the way of “home-work-home”.

    He won’t follow the constructive advice you have given.

    To think, I almost bought an iPhone so I could post comments from anywhere.

    Like


  480. Nova Seeker said – A few Canadian provinces have laws like that, where if you live together long enough, you are de facto treated as having been married

    In fact all of Canada uses Common Law for anyone co-habitating for over one year as a couple. They are entitled to tax breaks as well as the negative consequences of property divide if things go belly up. Ya sucks for men here in that regard.

    Like


  481. Yes, but Canadians are too poor to own property worth dividing.

    Like


  482. Yes DA we all live in igloos.

    Like


  483. on August 13, 2009 at 1:32 am The Fifth Horseman

    David Alexander wrote :

    Why do you want me to bother people that I don’t know or freak them out?

    Because eventually you will end up bothering them far more intensely when you go Sodini on them.

    To think, I almost bought an iPhone so I could post comments from anywhere.

    Spend that $300 on a hooker instead.

    Like


  484. Yes DA we all live in igloos.

    No, everybody in Canada lives in a small well insulated house with a finished basement in a “duplex” or a townhouse.

    Because eventually you will end up bothering them far more intensely when you go Sodini on them.

    The beta penalty brake alarm prevents that from happening.

    Spend that $300 on a hooker instead.

    I’d rather go ride trains with that money. The hooker is diseased and fakes orgasms. Plus, it’s illegal.

    Like


  485. DA yes and every basement has a bar and the whole house has shag carpeting and we hope one day to have garages instead of car ports. You got us nailed. Oh shouldn’t use that word it must bring you pain knowing you’ll never get nailed.

    I think you deserve the stays in character award for this blog. You never slip up on your role – congrats. I believe its an act cuz truthfully if I thought you mean the stuff you say I’d throw up. Just sayin…

    Like


  486. DA yes and every basement has a bar and the whole house has shag carpeting and we hope one day to have garages instead of car ports.

    I’ve been to Ottawa and Montreal. I had sex with a girl from Nova Scotia. The Haitian lady represents the English lady on your money. I know your country.

    If I had a college degree and no family to take care of, I’d consider moving. OTOH, your women have never heard of acrylic nails.

    I believe its an act cuz truthfully if I thought you mean the stuff you say I’d throw up.

    Start vomiting.

    Like


  487. on August 13, 2009 at 2:07 am PetriLaboratio

    Hey guys, loving these tips. Another word of advice. Like some men, I have breast tissue despite being a man. For a while I let it bother me, stop me from hitting on girls. Once I learned more about game, I started finding ways to get around it or use it to get girls.

    One thing is that people tell me I should work out. I work out a little and I’m not fat, 5′ 9 175, but I still have at least B cups. Another thing is people tell me to get the surgery for man breasts, but I don’t want to because I don’t really think a guy should pay for surgery to please women. Men can use mind to get women.

    One thing I do is walk with good posture. Another thing is that I like to neg girls sometimes about it, be like “Hey my breasts are bigger than yours” real nonchalant. They act weirded out but they love it. I’ve gotten some 5’s and 6’s that way.

    Any other tips for guys that have breasts and don’t want to get surgery or exercise?

    Like


  488. You’ve been to Ottawa and Montreal and had sex with a Bluenoser (NS) huh? That’s like saying I went to Georgia and South Carolina and had sex with a Floridian and then claiming to know the entire US. Fail.

    Like


  489. You’ve been to Ottawa and Montreal and had sex with a Bluenoser (NS) huh? That’s like saying I went to Georgia and South Carolina and had sex with a Floridian and then claiming to know the entire US.

    There’s a Canada west of Sudbury? I mean hell, except for Vancouver, I swear, I thought it was just some farm land, natives, and dudes drilling for oil. Just like how east of Gaspé is all welfare recipients.

    BTW, I basically dumped my plans to go to Toronto this summer on a quick trip because I couldn’t be bothered, and 2010 was supposed to be the year that I see Vancouver, but I scrapped that due to the end of the world happening.

    Like


  490. DA:

    Tupac gave him a detailed development program that would help just about any guy starting out.

    It gets in the way of “home-work-home”.

    “The normal man can be defined by his repetitive routines. He takes vacations every year – some even take them at the same place every year. He performs certain behaviors and avoids others on certain days of the week. Humans only have a small set of events to look forward to. How many Christmases can you tolerate!!

    If a man sat alone, bought nothing, did nothing but had the physical strength to act, he would either destroy himself or everything about him. The fact that we measure time linearly while, at the same time, the days repeat endlessly until we die, attests to the reality of the human condition.

    Even the normal man knows, at some level, that all of this is meaningless and empty. Some even respond to this condition by having a nervous breakdown. The cure, however, is fascinating: few psychologists or psychiatrists would propose that the patient climb Mt. Everest, sail across an ocean, quit his job, divorce his wife or abandon his children.

    Instead almost all of them will provide the drug-of-the-moment and help the poor schnook return to the very routines which drove him mad to begin with.” — C.S.H.

    I believe its an act cuz truthfully if I thought you mean the stuff you say I’d throw up.

    Start vomiting.

    OK I laughed.

    Like


  491. including a comment to a coworker that you labelled as a neg and taking this as proof

    I neg her so she won’t presume that I have a crush on her.

    Like


  492. on August 13, 2009 at 3:01 am The Fifth Horseman

    In the NYT, of all places :

    Young American graduates (mostly men) going to China.

    Of course, the NYT cannot put 2 and 2 together, given their feminist/misandry cheerleading. These young American college grads will certainly marry abroad.

    Like


  493. on August 13, 2009 at 3:28 am Cannon's Canon

    Obsidian,

    To answer your earlier question, I have not heard Jazzy Jeff or Cash Money spin in person and could not really “rate” them, although I’m confident that they do sound good if only because of their extensive experience over the years. I am well-aware of the transformer scratch that they hatched, and would like to learn to pull it off myself someday.

    I do appreciate your homage to my rap knowledge. Sadly, I must say that this is a very rare occurrence, compounding both timing and geography (even for black men!). I became a teenager in the early 90s in an NJ suburb of NYC, so my formative years let me absorb the sweet spot.

    Tonight, I was spitting tight game to an attractive sister in an Ann Arbor bar, who eventually introduced me to her white friend with the segue of my current hip hop beef with the ho-ass rapper Wale. He asked me off the cuff what my favorite rap song was – not knowing if I needed to AMOG this herb, I flipped it onto him. His answer was some shit by “G Love and Special Sauce,” which I told him I did not think even counted as hip hop music (sister laughed, AMOG very successfully completed).

    Unwisely, I let him keep sputtering with a follow-up; not “his favorite” but “the best.” His answer? “Free Mumia” by KRS and Channel Live. If you don’t know the track, you can guess the context. This fucking douche hipster did not like “rap” music, he just liked the culture of taking shots at “the (White) Man.” A real self-hating apologist. I was in precarious waters now though with the race card so clearly out on the table. With my best aloof asshole game, I asked the sister if she had put him up to this answer – a good rebut, though I didn’t quite pull it off seamlessly. Such nonsense just caught me off-guard.

    Something something, number close, weak exit strategy though, and here I am right now. Point is: white hip hop heads are still mostly lames, and to those of us who aren’t, most black hip hop heads are pretty fuckin weak too. (also, my first black prospect in my post-Game era)

    Like


  494. PA said:

    “I like Parton’s much better. It has a touch of that incredible soul of white folk that for some reason found a lot of expression in Appalachian cultures. Some of those songs can break your heart. As a white guy I feel it, though it may be alien to you.

    For the same reason, I don’t begrudge your liking Houston’s version. It strums your chords better.”

    O: No. Its not a matter of personal taste here, PA, its a matter of what the American public responded MORE to, and that includes both Black and White. I don’t have the exact stats in front of me right now, but hang tough, I’ll go scare em up.

    O

    Like


  495. Here’s what Wikipedia has to say about the Whitney Houston version of Dolly Parton’s I’ll Always Love You:

    “In 1992, singer Whitney Houston recorded the song for the soundtrack to The Bodyguard , her film debut. Houston was originally to record Jimmy Ruffin ‘s ” What Becomes of the Brokenhearted ” as the lead single from The Bodyguard . However, when it was discovered the song was to be used for Fried Green Tomatoes , Houston requested a different song and her co-star Kevin Costner brought her Linda Ronstadt ‘s 1975 version of “I Will Always Love You” from her album Prisoner in Disguise . Houston re-arranged the song as a soul ballad. Her record company did not feel a song with an a cappella introduction would be as successful; however, Houston and Costner insisted to maintain an a cappella intro.

    Houston’s version was a massive worldwide success, selling over 12 million copies worldwide. [ 10 ] It became a regular on countdown lists: appearing at number 8 on VH1 ‘s 100 Greatest Songs of the Past 25 Years ; number 4 on VH1’s 100 Greatest Songs of the 90s and number 1 on VH1’s 100 Greatest Love Songs . The song also lists at number 68 on Billboard’s Greatest Songs of all time. [ 11 ]

    [ edit ] Music video

    The single’s music video, credited to Alan Smithee , begins with the performance of the song Houston gives at the end of The Bodyguard . The video then cuts to Houston in a dark blue suit sitting in an empty theater with the spotlight shining on her, singing of her love. The video is intercut with scenes from The Bodyguard and gives the viewer the experience of reliving the moments with the singer.

    [ edit ] Chart performance

    The single spent fourteen weeks at the top of the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 , which at the time was a record. The single became Houston’s longest run at number 1, beating her previous record of three weeks with 1986’s, ” Greatest Love of All .” It is also the longest running number 1 single from a soundtrack album.

    The single debuted at number 40 on the Billboard Hot 100 and became Houston’s tenth number 1 hit a mere two weeks later. It also dominated various other Billboard charts, spending fourteen weeks at the top of Billboard Hot 100 Single Sales (the most for a solo female artist & later tied by Mariah Carey ‘s We Belong Together ), and eleven weeks at number 1 on its Hot 100 Airplay . The song also stayed at number 1 for five weeks on the Hot Adult Contemporary Tracks and for eleven weeks on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs becoming the longest running number 1 on the R&B charts at the time, and remained in the top 40 for twenty-four weeks. It became Arista Records ‘ biggest hit. The song was number 1 on the Hot 100, Adult Contemporary, and R&B chart simulateously for a record five weeks. [ 12 ]

    Houston’s single sold approximately 400,000 copies in its second week of release, making it the best-selling song in a single week (taking the record from Bryan Adams ‘ ” (Everything I Do) I Do It for You “). It broke its own record in the following three weeks, peaking at 632,000 copies in the week ending December 19, 1992 (the week it broke its own record for most copies sold in a single week for any song). It was certified 4xPlatinum in the U.S. for shipments of over 4 million copies. [ 13 ] and another six million worldwide, making it the third best-selling single in the world. [ citation needed ] It remains the biggest selling single by a female artist and the biggest selling non-charity single. [ citation needed ]

    Houston’s single became a massive international success, hitting number 1 in the United Kingdom for ten weeks, and Australia for ten weeks. It also hit pole position in Austria, Belgium, Ireland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, France, Denmark, Netherlands, and New Zealand. [ citation needed ] It is the only single to have ever topped both the U.S. and Australian charts for at least ten weeks. [ citation needed ]

    The song stayed at number 1 in the United States throughout January and February in 1993, making it the first time Billboard didn’t rank a new number one single until March of the new year. Houston’s “I Will Always Love You” was also the year-end single of 1993 in the U.S. [ 14 ] Similarly, in the UK, Houston’s version was ranked the number 1 single of 1992, and then made the countdown again in 1993 where it was ranked number 9, marking the first time any artist or group had the same single ranked in the top 10 of the year-end review two years in a row. [ citation needed ] Houston’s soundtrack album for The Bodyguard was number 1 for twenty weeks, and it became the best-selling soundtrack of all time. The album has been certified diamond in the U.S. for sales of over 17 million [ 13 ] , and has sold 42 million copies total worldwide to date. [ 15 ]”

    As an endnote, I should like to point out that Houston is on a comeback trail of sorts, having recently released a single produced by legendary R&B singer R.Kelly. Its getting heavy urban contemporary radio rotation, I understand. Hmm, just for kicks, maybe I ought to go see about Parton and Houston and run the stats…

    The Obsidian

    Like


  496. Cannon,

    Replies as follows:

    C: To answer your earlier question, I have not heard Jazzy Jeff or Cash Money spin in person and could not really “rate” them, although I’m confident that they do sound good if only because of their extensive experience over the years. I am well-aware of the transformer scratch that they hatched, and would like to learn to pull it off myself someday.

    O: It ain’t hard at all, in fact, you can even see DJ Cash Money giving a tutorial on the Transformer scratch online. Search around for him, I have a buddy who has it on his Ipod. I’ll get in touch w/him and see if he’ll pass along the link.

    Speaking of Michael Jackson, yo, you GOTTA see Jeff cutting up Billie Jean. Its on YouTube. Brotha killed it. I think there’s video of him doing same to Run-DMC’s Peter Piper, and a number of other popular urban hits. I’ve long admired Jeff. He da Man.

    C: I do appreciate your homage to my rap knowledge. Sadly, I must say that this is a very rare occurrence, compounding both timing and geography (even for black men!). I became a teenager in the early 90s in an NJ suburb of NYC, so my formative years let me absorb the sweet spot.

    O: Indeed, you came up in what I call Hip Hop’s true Golden Age, when the veil between the Street and the Studio was quite thin. I remember that era quite fondly.

    C: Tonight, I was spitting tight game to an attractive sister in an Ann Arbor bar, who eventually introduced me to her white friend with the segue of my current hip hop beef with the ho-ass rapper Wale. He asked me off the cuff what my favorite rap song was – not knowing if I needed to AMOG this herb, I flipped it onto him. His answer was some shit by “G Love and Special Sauce,” which I told him I did not think even counted as hip hop music (sister laughed, AMOG very successfully completed).

    O: LOL.

    C: Unwisely, I let him keep sputtering with a follow-up; not “his favorite” but “the best.” His answer? “Free Mumia” by KRS and Channel Live. If you don’t know the track, you can guess the context. This fucking douche hipster did not like “rap” music, he just liked the culture of taking shots at “the (White) Man.” A real self-hating apologist. I was in precarious waters now though with the race card so clearly out on the table. With my best aloof asshole game, I asked the sister if she had put him up to this answer – a good rebut, though I didn’t quite pull it off seamlessly. Such nonsense just caught me off-guard.

    O: Yea. One ting I’ve learned out in the field is, and this is something I’ve carried over from my Martial Arts days, is get the fight over with as quickly as possible-because the longer it goes, the greater chance of you getting fucked up, regardless of how “good” or “great” you are. All it takes is a lucky punch or hit, and you’re ass is grass.

    Same deal here-you drop him w/an AMOG shot to the gut AND CHANGE THE SUBJECT WITH THE QUICKNESS. Or, if you can’t do that, grab up girly by the arm and move to another part of the venue.

    C: Something something, number close, weak exit strategy though, and here I am right now. Point is: white hip hop heads are still mostly lames, and to those of us who aren’t, most black hip hop heads are pretty fuckin weak too. (also, my first black prospect in my post-Game era)

    O: Yea, you didn’t do half bad, all hings considered. As for self-loating White folk using Hip Hop as a kind of foil, I personally think that’s sad. But whatcha gonna do.

    Hope things workout for ya on the Ann Arbor Sista. Keep me informed.

    O

    Like


  497. Willard Libby,

    Replies are as follows…

    “Obsidian

    But he couldn’t handle JLo in my view. Puffy and Marc Anthony was more her speed.”

    WL: Affleck wanted kids and probably was pressured by family and friends to NOT have them with some fat assed Puerto Rican.

    Jennifer Garner is more to his family’s liking.

    O: Well, since all that you said is pure speculation, since it’s highly unlikely that you actually know Affleck personally and heard any of this from his mouth, who’s to say, right? What we do know is this-her “Bennifer” thing w/Affleck was a kind of running joke, because just about errbody thought he couldn’t handle her. General consensus is that Marc Anthony or Puffy was a better fit. Although I will grant you, Garner and Affleck do make a nice looking couple in my view.

    “Obsidian

    Oh, and we’re not talking about Classical musicians, we’re talking about American pop culture and the role African Americans have played within it. I maintain that w/o Black folks THERE IS NO American popular culture.”

    WL: That claim pretty much ONLY applies to music, most of which is complete garbage right now. And the contribution is not simply one way and coming from blacks.

    O: Nice try changing the goalposts Willie, but it will avail you naught. Let me repeat what we’re discussing here: we are examining whether African Americans have, and continue to make, an invaluable contribution to American Popular Culture, of which music plays a large part. Now, I say w/o any fear of rebuke or reprisal, that YES, Black folks DO indeed play such a role. Do you agree or disagree, and for what reasons, please?

    WL: Last time I checked the piano, saxophone, electric guitar, electric organ and the recording and engineering technology necessary to create modern pop music was not invented by blacks. Same goes with harmonic progressions and many melodies.

    O: Again, non-sequitur, something already floated by Apeman. Try again. The invention of instruments, recording tech, etc et al, was never at issue here.

    WL: And many so called black songs were actually written by White folks – from Hound Dog to Killing Me Softly to Natural Woman. And hip hop has been ripping off Bob James and Jim Gordon from day one.

    O: While it is true that quite a few Black hits were penned by White hands-Dolly Parton’s I’ll Always Love You and many of Burt Bachrach’s songs, who Roberta Flack sang among other artists, it is inaccurate to suggest what you have above. For the very simple reason that anyone can easily look up Marvin Gaye’s work, or Issac Hayes, or Prince, or Michael Jackson, or The Isley Brothers, GAP Band, Rick James, Temptations, etc et al, and see nothing but Black songwriters involved. In many of the cases just cited, the artists wrote their own material. And much of this trend continues today-R.Kelly wrote the vast majority of his music and lyrics.

    As for Hip Hop, yes, sampling has been and continues to form the backbone of its musical structure. That said, quite a few critics have noted that sampling itself is a kind of art form, citing such musical legends as Mantronik and the Bomb Squad, who produced the bulk of Public Enemy’s work.

    Nevetheless, neither point detracts from mine, which is, that Black Americans have made invaluable contributions to the American Songbook.

    WL: Other than music the black contribution has been minimal and it’s trivial compared to the fundamentally White nature of American culture.

    O: Whether that is or is not true, is again a non-sequitur here. No one ever suggested such a thing or made such an argument.

    WL: Even in sports black pretty much only contribute bodies. The actual cultural contribution is minor.

    O: Tell that to Phil Jackson when he was coach of the Chicago Bulls, and ask him if Michael Jordan was merely a “body” on the bench. Tell that to countless other coaches, both at the pro and collegiate levels, football and basketball, and see what they tell you. By the way, you never did answer-have you played ball in school, or boxed, Willie? That’s a yes or no question.

    WL: Properly understood, modern global civilization IS White culture.

    O: Strawman 101.

    WL: Fact is black folks obsess on and copy White culture every day. But the difference is White people don’t play the desperate black game of “notice me, look what my people are doing”.

    O: No? I was just watching The Wire, the Second Season, whic focuses on basically White Baltimore, and how its Working Class was being slowly choked to death by the powers that be. I’d love for you to watch that and tell me if you still think Whites ain’t aping Black folk.

    WL: White folks aren’t forever claiming this and that White contribution, blacks do. If White folks did that it would take forever and still they would be shouted down as racist even by other White people.

    O: LOL, you should go to Ian Jobling’s site or AmRen, that’s all they do over there. In fact, it got so bad, that Sailer, whom you cite below, even wrote about it, basically telling them to knock it off, it only makes White folk look bad, LOL.

    WL: As Steve Sailer rightly pointed out White culture is so fundamental to the modern world that we only notice it when it’s missing.

    Like oxygen.

    O: Again, strawman argument, Willie. Let’s try this again:

    The premise is that African Americans have made invaluable contributions to past, and present, American Popular Culture. If you disagree, please cite concrete examples why?

    And do try and stay focused like a laser beam…

    The Obsidian

    Like


  498. Doug,

    You said:

    “Joe

    I can think of only one black person who’s ever been on this site who constantly talks about race, much less usually in a baiting and undermining way (albeit with smoothness and sometimes subtlety), and that’s Obsidian. You don’t, Chic Noir doesn’t, I guess Ricky T did here but that was in joining Mu’min/Obsidian when they were in a race war with GNP is for Apes and Lurker and ScotchFiend I think and maybe someone else. Dreamer if she’s black doesn’t (she might just date blacks a lot) Nicole CERTAINLY doesn’t. Who have I left out that’s currently or fairly recently regular?

    GNP is for Apes and his various aliases is the main pro active baiter in the other direction, though others take on Obsidian from time to time, including me. Not I hope in a race baiting way.”

    O: Doug, the point both I and I think, Joe (among others; please note that T aka Ricky Raw pretty much left the forum altogether, presumably in part due to this very issue, and Chic Noir has spoken out on this as well) is making, is that often overtly racial, if not out and out racist remarks are made here in this venue all the time by the largely White Male contingent, and nothing is said about it, often under the guise/or in the name of “keeping it real” aka HBDism, or just being Fratboy Cute. Then there’s the “see no evil” line that you and others try to run, ie, you claiming not to read Apeman and so on.

    But at the same time, as soon as I or any other Black voice in the forum says anything, regardless of content or intent along racial lines, we get called on it. Suddenly, “Mr. See No Evil” has hawkeye vision, folk who can’t see the bile Willie and Apeman spew suddenly wanna cry crocodile tears and act indignant when Obsidian or Chic or Joe says something.

    And let’s be clear here, Doug-often, more often than not, I am RESPONDING to the bilge Willie or Apeman etc puts out.

    More than pointing out specific names, which I can most certainly do, by the way-its about the general tone, the permissiveness with which the forum allows such people to air such views, often unprovoked, and having little if anything to do with the actual topics being discussed. That’s what I and other Non-White voices are taking issue with.

    I’ve said it before and it bears repeating: this forum has existed since Apr 2007, and has since that time had numerous racial/racist comments aired on it, quite well before anyone Black bothered to comment. Problem was, it was all “one way”, just White guys saying it and basically getting it cosigned by other White guys, or, just kinda tolerated as locker room talk.

    Well, all that’s changed now. No longer will such voices just be able to spew shit outta the side of their necks. We will now have a two way conversation, and lo and behod, somenof the White boys can’t handle it.

    Ain’t that too bad.

    O

    Like


  499. Yea obsid so you want to be just like them where is your better than thou blackness now lol

    Seriously though yea whites need to team up because shit blackness ain’t gonna help em we can see that looking at you obsid. So yea someone got to watch the white mans back and it ain’t gonna be anyone but the white man.

    Like


  500. Need to quit acting like racist looking at black and white and minorities and start looking at self preservation. We are being extincted and fucked with on a mass scale. We ain’t even talking racism. We are talking a systematic annhilation at this time of the white man.

    Like


  501. And something else, if I may Doug:

    Let the record show, that there is no comparison between myself, and Willard/Apeman, etc et al, in terms of actual contributions made to this forum wrt Game and related matters. For every race-related comment you can find of mine, you can also find a Game-related one as well. We cannot say the same of the latter cohort.

    This begs the question, why are these “gentlemen” here? What purpose do they serve? And what do they hope to accomplish? If one didn’t know better, it would seem on the basis of their track record of statements that Joe spoke to, that they exist merely to hurl racial invective. That’s fine, but then why jump on me or any other Black member for choosing to call it on the carpet, especially since you or others here don’t seem particularly interested in doing so yourselves? What is up with that?

    So, yea, anyway, I contribute, from my own life experience coupled w/my study of Game and application of the same, to this venue per its stated intent. I should like to note w/keen interest, that guys like Willard, Apeman, etc et al, do not.

    Compare and contrast.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  502. And it is intentional and right in front of your eyes.

    Like


  503. I give blacks credit for being able to sopy one set of procedures put in place.

    Like


  504. In fact all of Canada uses Common Law for anyone co-habitating for over one year as a couple. They are entitled to tax breaks as well as the negative consequences of property divide if things go belly up. Ya sucks for men here in that regard.

    @aoefe —

    Hmm. I thought Quebec was different in that the legislature there specifically excluded having marital type rights attach to non-marital relationships. If Quebec really is the only province to have such a rule, then, yes, things are worse there for men that they are in the US.

    Like


  505. TFH,

    You said:

    “This woman is by far one of the most beautiful modern stars and is anorexic compared to the average American woman.

    That is because the average American woman is fat.

    If too many women become fat, men are not obligated to lower their standards of beauty. What you get is more men competing for the shrinking pool of attractive women, and more lonely and depressed fat women who vote Democrat so that the government can be their man.”

    O: If I may, I think you’re conflating a few things here. Whether American Women are or aren’t fat is in my view a completely seperate issue from JLo, who is considered one of the highest paid Latina actresses out in Hollywood. You don’t get that unless you’re pretty darn hot as a Woman, let me tell ya.

    That said, I do agree w/your general premise, that basically undesirable Women will turn more and more to the state to act as a mate of sorts. It’s gonna be quite ugly over the next few decades, as you have spoken to quite a few times.

    O

    Like


  506. That we can agree on. If canada and australia are doing the cohab bullshit and mistress bullshit. Then yea shit gonna be fucked from the floor up. No escape either as the whole world will be under similar laws. Unless someone destroys the west and its poison. Don’t really see that happening within the next ten years although the next 20 real potential.

    So yea someone got to stand up or it will get to point where you can’t stand up.

    Like


  507. Nova Seeker said – “I thought Quebec was different in that the legislature there specifically excluded having marital type rights attach to non-marital relationships”

    That could be true, Quebec operates quite indepenantly from the rest of the country – quite the separatist movement there.

    Like


  508. To continue on w/Houston, we have to keep in mind that she’s considered one of America’s greatest pop singers. She comes from a long line of Gospel singers, is a cousin to famed pop diva in her own right, Dionne Warwick, and again, as we saw in the case of The Bodyguard soundtrack, has sound millions of records.

    It should also be noted that her main photo on her debut album, the one in a swimsuit on a beach, caused some controversey-Clive Davis, then the head of Arista Records, had concerns that if Houston’s photo wasn’t “Whitened” it might put off White customers, whom he was intent on reaching. This is hardly new-Berry Gordy’s entire focus w/Motown was to, as PA spoke to earlier, “tone down” the “Black/African” sound of his musicians and artists, so that they may be more attractive to the White audience. The formula, on both counts, proved successful, gaining both Houston and most of Motown’s acts crossover appeal.

    That said, one should also keep in mind that companies like the reknowned Stax, out of Memphis TN, traded on its explicitly funky, soulful, “Black” sound, and had many successes-Al Green, Issac Hayes, Otis Redding, and the Staple Singers, just to name a few.

    It should also be noted that Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder’s greatest success came after the golden era-period of Motown; Gaye in particular changed his style to such an extent that listening to his earlier work on Motown and comparing it to his “What’s Goin’ On” period moving forward, is like listening to two different Men. The latter period, again, proved far more successful, and what he’s remembered for today.

    Just sayin’. And no one has yet given a White equal to Gaye, Charles or Wonder.

    I’m still waiting.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  509. The dog is yours, not hers, even when it’s hers. It’s a pack leader thing she wouldn’t understand

    wrong. Walking with the dog is bad anyway, only much worse if you let her lead it.

    Like


  510. Firth Horse/tood

    Doug1: True joint custody as a way out of paying any child support is FAST disappearing.

    In what way? The father gets no custody at all?

    No. He can have 50% visitation. Someone still get’s primary custody. She’s called the mother. He can even have 60% time. She still gets child support in e.q. California or Michigan’s formulas, albeit somewhat reduced amounts. NY doesn’t even have a formula reduction, thought he judge CAN order a reduction, by deviating from the state’s STRONG recommendations because of EXTRAORDINARY circumstances which he sets forth in his ruling. I.e. he probably won’t. They used to in real 50 50 with her working.

    Now the feminists have gotten to them with the notion that as long as the kids are minors the father the woman left to go pursue other romantic possibilities is supposed to still have to pay her money to equalize the income of the two households.

    She leaves him but he has to equalize their income forever. Even though her income wasn’t near her highest priority not long after getting married, all of which feminists blame on him.

    That’s part of the rationale for the return of alimony as more than a brief transition for a long time non working or an at the time of divorce unemployed or part time working woman. In NY it was usually 3 years ten years ago or so. If she was working full time and making decent money, it was no alimony.

    (Though for tax reasons 3 yrs of alimony was structured in most NY divorce settlement agreements. But that was taken out of her property settlement amount, with the take savings equally divided. So it’s a tax technicality. No real alimony if she was working full time at time of divorce. That’s how it was a few years ago.)

    Now real alimony’s coming back even if she’s been working full time if she’s earning a lot less.

    Feminism marches on.

    Like


  511. Aoefe does that live in auo marriage include allimony?

    Like


  512. Gunny yes it includdes whatever marriage laws would indicate. It will depend like marriage on the length and whether kids etc are involved.

    Like


  513. Dam talk about some social engineering and taking away of freedom of accosiation. Dam they took away the guns in cananda does it ever end?

    Like


  514. Obsidian-

    Horseshitte Obsidian.

    On nearly every thread where you participate if you’re early to the tread you bring up race. You usually do it in a belittling and baiting way, albeit smoothly.

    If you don’t show up at all, often race doesn’t get mentioned or if it does, it’s not in a very acrimonious or baiting way. Sometimes if you aren’t around someone does bring it up baitingly, but not very often. T says way back when before I was around it happened a lot. I can’t remember ever seeing it a lot before you showed up Obsidian, except maybe on Roissy’s post specifically about black man white woman dating (where contrary to your claims he DIDn’t support your black male sexual or dating or supremacy claims at all. He specifically ridiculed similar claims made by a woman writing in the NY Times in some article, who turned out to be an aged hag, who looked around 60 or older.)

    That your fellow blacks nearly always support you or stay shut is hardly surprising. It’s rare when blacks behave differently before a substantial white audience, at least if any fur is flying. Whereas liberal or moderate whites nearly always try to come to the aid of a black guy under attack, or some of them do, unless the black guy is incredibly wrong, but usually even then some do. Or often do.

    If you’re here then yeah a few like Willard will often resume your ongoing feuds. Maybe he’ll start that up first. Maybe you will, from what I can see.

    No obsidian. Little race war. Though lots of other blacks here. Obsidian, usually race war with you and somebody.

    Your act on race undermining has gotten old Obsidian.

    Like


  515. Obsidian

    is that often overtly racial, if not out and out racist remarks are made here in this venue all the time by the largely White Male contingent, and nothing is said about it, often under the guise/or in the name of “keeping it real” aka HBDism, or just being Fratboy Cute. Then there’s the “see no evil” line that you and others try to run, ie, you claiming not to read Apeman and so on.

    Don’t give me my “claiming not to read apeman”. I DON’T read him much at all. I ship by most of the race war stuff he or you are engaged in, as I think do most people. Many have said they do and are sick of it that’s for sure.

    As for your equating HBD, i.e. human bio diversity aka race realism and racism that’s horseshiite. The are mountains and mountains of scientific evidence behind the PROOF the stable 1 sigma aka standard deviate of IQ difference and also mountains of evidence though not absolute proof behind the proposition that a substantial part of that difference is genetic. Despite the MASSIVE LYING the PC/leftist mainsteam media enages in to cover that up, make it seem very uncertain when’ if it were almost any other subject it would be taken as scientificly proven by now, and so on. It’s absolutely remarkable how much bullshiite there is covering this up but there it is.

    In contrast you’ve never pointed to any evidence whatsoever to your notion that black men are vastly better at game than white men, maybe not all black men but you imply damn close, and at sexual prowess and so on. Yet you bait about how high IQ guys can’t get game as an HBD matter when there not a scintilla of scientific evidence, no studies, or none you’ve pointed to, to back you up. Just your just sayin’. In nearly every thread you show up for.

    Like


  516. Little random comment – JLo is a good example of a girl who’s hot based not on beauty but more her sexy and sensual vibe. Naturally she is probably a 6, maybe 7 at best. After her makeover with lighter hair, softer more golden makeup, a bronze tan and straghtened hair she got more into 7/8 territory. Just compare her pre selena photos to what she looked like during her peak – great example of how a woman can up her hot factor

    Like


  517. Doug,

    D: Horseshitte Obsidian.

    D: On nearly every thread where you participate if you’re early to the tread you bring up race. You usually do it in a belittling and baiting way, albeit smoothly.

    O: True, in fact, Roissy’s first thread on Relationship Game I was the first commenter and I said nothing of race at all, and in THIS thread I said nothin about race until its brought up by someone else, usually in “defence” oriented terms. Try again.

    D: If you don’t show up at all, often race doesn’t get mentioned or if it does, it’s not in a very acrimonious or baiting way. Sometimes if you aren’t around someone does bring it up baitingly, but not very often.

    O: I have and will mention Race if I see it having some tie into the Game-related discussion. For example, Roissy’s recent post about BBQ settings, and how I said that I cannot ever recall seeing Black Men acting in the manner he reported the effeminate White Men acting at the BBQ he attended.
    But aside from that, I defy you finding quotes from me that are comparable to ANYTHING Apeman, Willard, etc et al has said about Black folk, especially all out of context to both the subject and the spirit of this forum? I’ll wait.

    D: T says way back when before I was around it happened a lot. I can’t remember ever seeing it a lot before you showed up Obsidian, except maybe on Roissy’s post specifically about black man white woman dating (where contrary to your claims he DIDn’t support your black male sexual or dating or supremacy claims at all. He specifically ridiculed similar claims made by a woman writing in the NY Times in some article, who turned out to be an aged hag, who looked around 60 or older.)

    O: As I recall, Roissy did indeed agree w/some of the points the older White Woman made in the post, but his major point was that she was old and/or ugly and hence no self respecting White Man would want her. I see that as seperate from the issue of Black Man/White Women dating/sexing.

    Anyway, yes, what T said is accurate. I saw it in the archives before actually posting here in the Fall of last year. You could do the same thing, but ahh, you’re Mr. See No Evil…right?

    D: That your fellow blacks nearly always support you or stay shut is hardly surprising. It’s rare when blacks behave differently before a substantial white audience, at least if any fur is flying. Whereas liberal or moderate whites nearly always try to come to the aid of a black guy under attack, or some of them do, unless the black guy is incredibly wrong, but usually even then some do. Or often do.

    O: Then clearly, there are no liberal or moderate Whites here, right? Because if that were so we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

    D: If you’re here then yeah a few like Willard will often resume your ongoing feuds. Maybe he’ll start that up first. Maybe you will, from what I can see.

    O: Name one instance where I’ve done it then. I’ll wait.

    D: No obsidian. Little race war. Though lots of other blacks here. Obsidian, usually race war with you and somebody.

    O: That’s because I CHOOSE to speak on it. And there aint a damn thing yo can do about that, now is there, Doug? I’ll tell you what-you get those knuckleheads to stop saying outrageously dumb shit about their fellow American citizens, and you’ll never, ever, hear anything else from me on race. Fair enough?

    D: Your act on race undermining has gotten old Obsidian.

    O: Not as old as the Apeman’s act, I see, Doug.

    “Obsidian:

    is that often overtly racial, if not out and out racist remarks are made here in this venue all the time by the largely White Male contingent, and nothing is said about it, often under the guise/or in the name of “keeping it real” aka HBDism, or just being Fratboy Cute. Then there’s the “see no evil” line that you and others try to run, ie, you claiming not to read Apeman and so on.”

    D: Don’t give me my “claiming not to read apeman”. I DON’T read him much at all. I ship by most of the race war stuff he or you are engaged in, as I think do most people. Many have said they do and are sick of it that’s for sure.

    O: Bullshit, Doug, you run by just about EVERY race baiting comment made here if its by a commenter w/a White face, they get a pass, by you, and the rest of this site. ONLY when I or someone else Black says something, then out comes your faux righteous indignation. I think you know what you can do w/that.

    D: As for your equating HBD, i.e. human bio diversity aka race realism and racism that’s horseshiite. The are mountains and mountains of scientific evidence behind the PROOF the stable 1 sigma aka standard deviate of IQ difference and also mountains of evidence though not absolute proof behind the proposition that a substantial part of that difference is genetic. Despite the MASSIVE LYING the PC/leftist mainsteam media enages in to cover that up, make it seem very uncertain when’ if it were almost any other subject it would be taken as scientificly proven by now, and so on. It’s absolutely remarkable how much bullshiite there is covering this up but there it is.

    O: First off, I’ve said umpteen times that I have no problem w/the basic premise of HBD, but rather the aims of those who claim to change public policy using that as a basis. And second, yea, I also have a problem w/those who hide their racial animus behind stuff like HBD. If they were real Men they’d just be straight up Crackers.

    D: In contrast you’ve never pointed to any evidence whatsoever to your notion that black men are vastly better at game than white men, maybe not all black men but you imply damn close, and at sexual prowess and so on. Yet you bait about how high IQ guys can’t get game as an HBD matter when there not a scintilla of scientific evidence, no studies, or none you’ve pointed to, to back you up. Just your just sayin’. In nearly every thread you show up for.

    O: Oh cmon Doug-do we really have to have a bunch of eggheads do up a study for something anyone who got eyes can easily see? I mean, who really argues the basic claim that, on average, Black guys have more natural Game than do White guys? Huh? Does anyone reading this really argue that basic point?

    And, let’s take it a step further: OneSTDV says, on his own site, that YES, the higher the IQ, the harder it becomes for Males to socially relate to others. Hence, why, per Half Sigma’s site, the biggest users of prostitution services tend to be high IQ White Males. They also tend to have markedly fewer kids, marry significantly less than other Men, and so on. It is a documented fact that the higher the IQ, the lower the T. I mean really Doug, you’re doing that Whiskey thing when he just refuses to face basic facts about The Wire. LOL

    The Obsidian

    Like


  518. on August 13, 2009 at 11:14 am Black Military Man

    Girls, girls, girls….. calm down and chill out.

    1. “I am not saying this is right, but it is a pretty mainstream belief in Asia, which people talk to each other about in a matter of fact way. There are TEXTBOOKS and MUSEUMS with exhibits regarding this.”

    Name 5 each.

    2. Obsidian with your “everyone wants to BE us”, you sound like Alicia Keys accepting her BET award. Mind you, she’s HALF WHITE so maybe SHE’S the one that wishes she were fully black? That complex is not un-common amongst half-breeds.

    3. ALL CURRENT POP CULTURE is lowest common denominator. I agree with the poster way up who said that music and art used to be the domain of the ELITE who set the tone for the unwashed masses. Sure, it was high-brow and pretentious, but I’ll take that anyday over what’s coming out now.

    Case in point: again Mystery. He’s a pop culture icon. He or his baby mama named their kid “Dakota Rain”. Lowest common denominator white trash trailer park name. Our equivalent in the black community is “Aquanetta”.

    And these my friends, are the “leaders” of the future.

    5. Obsidian’s fantasy that he can get a black woman to agree to one-way polyamory. LOL!!!

    Sure, she’ll do that for a few months, maybe even 6. After that, she’s gettin’ some on the sly – and YOU KNOW IT (or you don’t, which means she’s good, VERY good).

    Our grandmothers’ generation tolerated that ish, not a single woman since!

    4. The madonna/whore complex. Used to be that madonna meant virgin til’ marriage and whore meant everything else. Nowadays I don’t even think we can talk in terms of madonna/whore. How many of you have wives/mates for whom you were their first sexual experience?

    Thought so.

    Like


  519. Anyway Doug, I’ll say it again: for every comment on race I’ve made, I’ve also made an explicitly Game-related comment, and that’s something Willard, Apeman, and quite a few other guys here simply cannot say.

    Again Doug, if I’m wrong, prove it. Happy searching.

    O

    Like


  520. Now real alimony’s coming back even if she’s been working full time if she’s earning a lot less.

    Feminism marches on.

    @doug1 —

    I’ve noticed this trend, too. I think that the feminists must be desperate now to absolutely kill marriage. Child alimony plus ex-wife alimony is simply economically rape, full stop.

    Like


  521. So obsidian your saying your only 1 race comment per one comment not about race?

    That is actually kind of sad if 50 percent of your time is spent thinking about the white man.

    Like


  522. Madras–

    How to handle money issues in STR and LTR really warrants further discussion. I still mantain that:

    In a live together LTR keep separate checking and credit card accounts. Divide joint expenses according to income except if she’s moving into your place you keep paying the mortgage and utilities. You’re staying if you two break up.

    Lots of expenses like clothes work out as really separate. If you’re doing the biggie domicile and utilities she can pay for all the groceries as a starter. You want to have living with you be a financial benefit to her though. Without making her dependent on you. You want her to 1) pay off her credit cards and 2) start saving her own separate money.

    If you make a lot more she’ll end up buying things that you’ll want to pick up. Manage that by her using that credit on her cards you’re picking up more than your fair share of the joint expenses has created, and then transfer the money right away into her account. Cause you’ve got ample reserves, RIGHT?

    Like


  523. the higher the IQ, the harder it becomes for Males to socially relate to others

    It’s not that simple. The sweet spot male IQ for Game is 110-130. This is according to this blog’s Dating Market Value for Men test, with which I agree. Above-average and high but non-genius IQ correlates with good looks, health, and a host of other positive attributes.

    Below 100 male IQ, you start seeing surly dumbasses, dim dopes, and such. Do introversion and nerdiness up at IQs higher than 140? In my personal observation, not more than with people of other intelligence levels. But I don’t knwo if this is a fact of just a cliche.

    In my estimation, Doug1, Esquire, and Roissy are likely over 130, and they don’t come across as guys who can’t socially relate to others. And Mencius, whose IQ is certainly off-the-charts, seems like a very alpha/personable guy, who also happens to be married and just had his first child.

    Like


  524. I just posted a response to Obsidian’s comment on high IQs and not having good social skills, but it is stuck in moderation.

    Like


  525. aoefe–

    Gunny yes it includdes whatever marriage laws would indicate. It will depend like marriage on the length and whether kids etc are involved.

    I hope you realize how absolutely outrageous that is.

    How can anyone construct a theory that the man consented to that imposed contract? If there’s a choice between marriage and living together without marriage, even though the vast majority of men have no real idea what marriage entails in terms of divorce liability esp. in situations such as when a wife cheats (it makes no difference, he’s still ass raped), at least you can theorize he made a choice.

    Like


  526. Doug1

    Oh I’m not for it in any way! But I think you’d have guessed that. 🙂

    Like


  527. The dog is yours, not hers, even when it’s hers. It’s a pack leader thing she wouldn’t understand. Exception: She has a gay microdog. That’s all hers.
    More on dogs and alpha.

    Like


  528. PA,
    Looking fwd to your response once it gets out of moderation, but what I want to emphasize is simply this: when it comes to HBD, there is NEVER any discussion about any of the real pitfalls about the Right Enders. It’s as if they’re perfect people w/o flaws of any kind. And I find the hubris laughable, quite frankly.

    For example, OneSTDV, Half Sigma and others in the HBDsphere pay a lot of lip service to the idea of curtailing the birthrates of Left Enders on the Bell Curve. All the faimilar (read, tired) arguments are trotted out, about how they commit more crime, yada, yada yada.

    Yet, no one ever asks-why can’t smarter people simply fuck and make babies? I mean, what is so hard about that? Afterall, if supposdly dumber people can do it, then why can’t smarter folk?

    Of course, at that point, all manner of excuses are trotted out again, from Women delaying childbirth to later years, to the whole future time orientation thing that supposedly explains why smart folks-and I’m talking IQs over 130 here-dont fuck and have babies.

    Of course, they also don’t deal w/the very real issue of Galton’s Regression to the Mean, either. How’s Jim Watson’s kids doing these days? Hmm? I wonder how many Father-Son Nobel Prize winners are there? Sure, we all know the well-connected get their kids into the best schools…but is that purely a function of raw merit-the kind that OneSTDV endlessly flops on and on about-or is it due to simply knowing the right people and greasing the right palms? Afterall, how many smart and/or monied folk have dullards for kids? Quite a few, I think. It’s just well, they’re better at hiding them from the harsh glare of the all seeing Public Eye. Having connections does have its perks.

    Ever see a flick called A Beautiful Mind? Starred an actor who’s been recently mentioned here in the forum, Russell Crowe, who I actually like as an actor, btw. John Nash, the academic Crowe portrayed on screen, was as crazy as a bedbug. His poor wife was probably driven crazy just having to deal w/the guy day after day. Was his schizoid ways worth his brainpower, in the end? Maybe. The point I’m making is that, in the HBD world, such questions don’t even exist.

    Which is why I’ve been giving these and other things a lot of thought. Since it’s pretty clear, to me at least, that no one in the current HBDsphere, of which I think its fair to say Roissy in DC is at least on the periphery of, it just might be time to address these gaps in vision in a much more direct way. Still on the drawing board, haven’t worked it all out just yet, and there are still other bigger fish to fry, so to speak…but yea, it’s time other voices were heard on this front.

    Anyway, like I said, looking foward to seeing what you got to say.

    O

    Like


  529. A recent piece on alimony in Massachusetts: http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/special_reports/paying_alimony_forever_081209

    Second wives are liable, too!

    Like


  530. More on Asians.

    According to this: they don’t recognise fear in a white male.

    Like


  531. Obsidian

    D: Don’t give me my “claiming not to read apeman”. I DON’T read him much at all. I ship by most of the race war stuff he or you are engaged in, as I think do most people. Many have said they do and are sick of it that’s for sure.

    O: Bullshit, Doug, you run by just about EVERY race baiting comment made here if its by a commenter w/a White face, they get a pass, by you, and the rest of this site.

    I just told you I hardly ever read apeman Obsidian. No do I read you when you’re feuding with him.

    Like


  532. Damn. Another comment stuck in moderation. No links, no excessive formatting. No “m e g a” or “d e l e t e” in my text.

    Like


  533. White males have fear?

    Like


  534. ””””””””””””””””on August 13, 2009 at 11:24 am Obsidian
    Anyway Doug, I’ll say it again: for every comment on race I’ve made, I’ve also made an explicitly Game-related comment, and that’s something Willard, Apeman, and quite a few other guys here simply cannot say.

    Again Doug, if I’m wrong, prove it. Happy searching.

    O””””””””””

    on August 13, 2009 at 11:54 am Gunslingergregi
    So obsidian your saying your only 1 race comment per one comment not about race?

    That is actually kind of sad if 50 percent of your time is spent thinking about the white man.

    I think this kind of speaks for itself don’t you.

    Case rested.

    Like


  535. Novaseeker–

    Neither Mass nor Connecticut enforce waivers of alimony in a prenup.

    Solution:

    Don’t marry in those states even with a prenup. Instead do a cohabitation agreement the meets the requirements of a prenup and waive alimony there.

    It would be one thing if 90% of marriages end because the husband wants out without the wife having committed grevious marital sins. Instead it’s the exact reverse and still the abandoned husband who’s kids are yanked away from him is supposed to commit to her for life financially, or for decades after marriage and not just through child support, while she commits not at all when she marries. Only optionally if she continues to be moved to do so.

    Like


  536. It would be one thing if 90% of marriages end because the husband wants out without the wife having committed grevious marital sins. Instead it’s the exact reverse and still the abandoned husband who’s kids are yanked away from him is supposed to commit to her for life financially, or for decades after marriage and not just through child support, while she commits not at all when she marries. Only optionally if she continues to be moved to do so.

    And in Mass., you can’t get remarried either, really, because the would-be second wives know that they are on the hook for your alimony to your first wife. Now that’s probably a good thing for men, actually, because only a complete and utter moron would sign up for a second marriage in Mass., but still.

    Like


  537. Doug,
    Listen man, all I know is you piss and moan when I or someone else Black, says something about racial issues. Yet for whatever reason, real or imagined, you say NOTHING about White guys who do far worse. Even Chic Noir called you on this last week.

    And if Gunny’s reading along, I nver said anything about obsessing over White Men, etc. What I said was that often I was responding to what was said about Black people. Big difference.

    O

    Like


  538. Reposting moderated comments:

    COMMENT ONE:

    the higher the IQ, the harder it becomes for Males to socially relate to others

    It’s not that simple. The sweet spot male IQ for Game is 110-130. This is according to this blog’s Dating Market Value for Men test, with which I agree. Above-average and high but non-genius IQ correlates with good looks, health, and a host of other positive attributes.

    Below 100 male IQ, you start seeing surly dumbasses, dim dopes, and such. Do introversion and nerdiness up at IQs higher than hundred-forty? In my personal observation, not more than with people of other intelligence levels. But I don’t knwo if this is a fact of just a cliche.

    In my estimation, Doug1, Esquire, and Roissy are likely over 130, and they don’t come across as guys who can’t socially relate to others. And Mencius, whose IQ is certainly off-the-charts, seems like a very alpha/personable guy, who also happens to be married and just had his first child.

    COMMENT TWO:

    Obsidian, the gist of my moderated comment was that 110-130 IQ seesm to be the sweet spot for Game, and I expressed doubt about hundred-forty+ IQs being a “nerd cliff.”

    why can’t smarter people simply fuck and make babies?

    How many times was this responded to on this blog? Another angle on this: smart guys fuck plenty. But they tend to bang smarter and higher quality women, who are more reproductively-continent.

    For example, OneSTDV, Half Sigma and others in the HBDsphere

    Half Sigma is a middling-IQ prole.

    Like


  539. Doug,
    Several questions: one, why not avoid MA and CT altogether if you’re of a mind to get married, and two, what dos the law say about such things in my state of PA? I mean, does Common Law Marriage apply, and if so, what’s the requirement there? What about alimony, etc? I know CS definitely exists here, but that’s almost always within the context of “Baby Mama Drama” if you know what I mean, not in terms of divorce, etc. Although we disagree on the racial stuff, I want you to know that I’ve been reading you and Nova’s family/marital law stuff w/great interest.

    Thanks.

    O

    Like


  540. Obsidian

    Listen man, all I know is you piss and moan when I or someone else Black, says something about racial issues. Y

    I don’t piss and moan about anything.

    The only black person on here I have an issue with on incessant race baiting and undermining, race warring not just discussing on nearly every thread they show up on, and claims of black male sexual supremacism quite often, is you. The only one.

    Like


  541. Doug,
    I have never claimed “Black Male sexual supremacy”, so I don’t know where you got that from.

    Second, as I’ve said earlier, I didn’t mention race AT ALL on this thread, until, as usual, somebody goes to talking out the side of their neck. And I feel compelled to set the record straight.

    Third, I stand by what I said earlier: Chic Noir called your ass out on the carpet last week, for failing to say anything about the near constant race baiting by White members of this forum; on that note, you turn a blind eye. Only when I or someone else says something, then, oooh boy, do you have something to say about it.

    Try again.

    O

    Like


  542. on August 13, 2009 at 1:08 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Wendy Schwartz,

    How much child support are you collecting from the father of your boy?

    What are your future intentions regarding marriage, or having another kid?

    I do not collect any child support and never have. A few bucks extra a month isn’t worth having to have that man involved with my son. Denying child support is my little insurance policy that he doesn’t.

    I am done having children, I don’t intend to have more ever nor do I plan to marry. My son will be a legal adult by the time I’m 41 so I intend on working as a Lawyer and then traveling once he’s grown and on his own.

    Like


  543. You are planning to go to law school and get a job in law at 41 without a background as a paralegal or in the field in some way?

    Like


  544. on August 13, 2009 at 1:22 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Dana–

    I started my college ed while still in high school, I have the first four years, yes. However….I have worked in the law field several times, just not as specifically a Paralegal. That kind of work doesn’t interest me much, but I have no prob having to do the “shit work” for awhile. It’s life.

    Second, that’s why I’ve stayed in one field in the way of my current trade because I’m already at a minimum starting rate of $23.00 and up for my job. Meaning I can do both once my son is older to balance it out (financially) for awhile.

    Like


  545. on August 13, 2009 at 1:23 pm Wendy Schwartz

    (Meaning since I won’t have a husband and my son will be grown, I’ll be thrilled to work two jobs if I can and have plenty of time to do it. I genuinely love hard work and constant work if possible. Two jobs right now wouldn’t give me mom/son time right now, though.)

    Like


  546. on August 13, 2009 at 1:27 pm Black Military Man

    Obsi, see my comment @
    August 13, 2009 at 11:14 am Black Military Man

    Like


  547. LR – I’d suggest you take the LSAT to see if you’re lawyer material. I did practice exams and passed but decided I’m not cut out for the field. I recommend you take practice exams to see if at the very least you can pass. Just sayin…

    The test consists of five 35-minute sections of multiple-choice questions. Four of the five sections contribute to the test taker’s score. The unscored section, commonly referred to as the variable section, typically is used to pretest new test questions or to preequate new test forms. The placement of this section will vary. A 35-minute writing sample is administered at the end of the test. LSAC does not score the writing sample, but copies of the writing sample are sent to all law schools to which you apply.

    •Reading Comprehension Questions
    These questions measure your ability to read, with understanding and insight, examples of lengthy and complex materials similar to those commonly encountered in law school work. The reading comprehension section contains four sets of reading questions, each consisting of a selection of reading material, followed by five to eight questions that test reading and reasoning abilities.
    •Analytical Reasoning Questions
    These questions are designed to measure your ability to understand a structure of relationships and to draw logical conclusions about that structure. You are asked to make deductions from a set of statements, rules, or conditions that describe relationships among entities such as persons, places, things, or events. They simulate the kinds of detailed analyses of relationships that a law student must perform in solving legal problems.
    •Logical Reasoning Questions
    These questions are designed to evaluate your ability to understand, analyze, criticize, and complete a variety of arguments. Each logical reasoning question requires you to read and comprehend a short passage, then answer a question about it. The questions test a variety of abilities involved in reasoning logically and thinking critically.

    Like


  548. as a member of the PA bar i can tell you from reading raine’s writing she has neither the reasoning nor the writing skills to go to law school and pass the bar exam. i passed the bar 8 years out of law school based entirely on BAR/BRI and couldn’t find a job at 32

    Like


  549. on August 13, 2009 at 1:46 pm Wendy Schwartz

    That’s funny Dana, my grades, GPA, and skills say otherwise. Furthermore I have already done a lot of the bs with mock trials used as real trials and overturned several real cases where the defendant was found guilty.

    I am excellent in defense and investigation and would prefer to be Defense only, but of course it doesn’t work that way.

    Thanks, though Dana….now my grades and education and Private Schools are meaningless because of your opinion. Yeah, random commenting on some blog is how you judge one’s legal ability.

    (I was always good at Law because I’m not emotionally invested and gruesome murders, photos, and obviously guilty clients don’t bother me in the slightest. Everyone deserves a fair trial, even the guilty. Furthermore I have no interest in tort law, business law, or family law. That’s just a big mess all around.)

    Like


  550. on August 13, 2009 at 1:49 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Again, Dana until you are actually one of my Professors or Employers previous or future, your opinion really doesn’t matter at all. You have no idea what my skills are or are not and if you think I’d list them in detail you’re nuts. I was at an advantage to start because I passed classes in 10th grade High School that I shouldn’t have received until my second year of college. Having a head start helps a lot.

    Like


  551. @dana – “as a member of the PA bar i can tell you from reading raine’s writing she has neither the reasoning nor the writing skills to go to law school and pass the bar exam”

    Sssshhhhh don’t tell her but that is exactly what I thought too. 😉

    Like


  552. O cat totally out bag bro game over. No more are you able to act like you don’t bait 1 out of 2 dude. Come on now. You will not find anywhere close to one out of two in the threads on race but yea case closed.

    You had already said it before reason for being here. This is just cut and dry though.

    Like


  553. raine,

    ok, then you deliberately write in a manner that indicates you don’t have the writing skills and argue in a manner that indicates you have neither the reading comprehension nor the reasoning skills required for law. if you are deliberately obscuring your skill set i don’t know what to say.

    you display your skills in the manner in which you choose to express yourself.

    Like


  554. I don’t fuck with peeps for no reason. The reason I do answer you shit is because I recognise it. I am from the hood. Cept really there ain’t that many blacks there fucking it up just certain ones.

    Like


  555. on August 13, 2009 at 2:52 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Dana, do you seriously “reread” before you post on a blog and spellcheck it? That’s like rereading a text message because it’s SOOO important.

    I didn’t realize that Law Opportunities would be checking my random commenting skills, thank goodness you told me that I’m here to “prove a skill set” to people. I thought it was just bullshitting around.

    Like I said, it doesn’t matter what you think. I have nearly perfect grades all throughout school years and already have recommendations from various Professors (some of which were Lawyers and one a Chief of Police in the area). Having people actually IN law that recommend you helps as well.

    Like


  556. on August 13, 2009 at 2:53 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Besides, even if I totally failed in Law altogether…..doesn’t matter because I have 7 years experience in a high paying job already at 28. I can only go “up” from $23.00 from here even if I never set foot in the field of Law.

    Like


  557. on August 13, 2009 at 2:57 pm Wendy Schwartz

    I don’t know why Dana and Aoefe dream of the day of my “failure” but this is what should show you gentlemen that you don’t ever need to worry about women “banding together” against you, lol.

    These are the types of women who hate me for being financially secure already, with nowhere to go but up from here on out. It’s not like it was “handed” to me. I busted my ass and my parents didn’t put in one red cent for college, so if my having “career options” bothers you, then you need to look at yourselves.

    Like


  558. on August 13, 2009 at 2:58 pm Black Military Man

    Obsidian, I’d be interested to know how the women you consort with support themselves. You sure do seem to insinuate that you’re Sugar Daddy.

    Like


  559. You won’t find a job as a lawyer at that age. You *could* hang a shingle if you like, but that’s a difficult thing to do.

    [editor: or she could just spread her legs. she’s got a couple of years business left between those buckskin thighs.]

    Like


  560. Ok I got 12 wrong I feel dumb now thank dana 🙂

    Like


  561. on August 13, 2009 at 3:41 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Nova–

    A shingle? What are you talking about? I don’t do construction, lol!!!

    Dude I make over 23.00 an hour NOW and sit on my ass and write G Codes for programs all day. Why would I be concerned either way? It’s called “a good back up plan” except I’m using my back up plan first.

    I got into a good, in demand field and discovered I really love it, so actually working in Law would be mostly a bonus later in life.

    Either way I’ll have the freedom to go where I please, travel, or even not work at all because I’ve carefully saved money since I started working at age 15. I like my future so far. I can have my fam (already do) and have my money too. Anything else is just “extra”.

    Like


  562. on August 13, 2009 at 3:42 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Buckskin thighs? Please, Roissy I have perfect legs and get told so often.

    [editor: thx for qualifying yourself to me. see, game works!]

    Like


  563. I know 2 people who got into law late in life. And they got hired at high profile firms. One was in mid-30s, the other was in late 30s. They both went to top 10 schools, had good work and life experience and both passed the bar on the first tries, so they may not be typical. I’m not a fan of Wendy Schwartz but I’ve definitely known practicing lawyers who passed the bar and are much more illogical than she is.

    Dana, why did you pass the bar eight years out of law school? I’m confused by that sentence.

    Like


  564. raine,

    i know it is difficult to respond what people actually type rather than what you intuit they mean, but at no point did i indicate i “dreamt of your failure”. i have no truck with you and wish you all the luck in the world. it sounds like you have a well paid, rewarding career and derive satisfaction from owning an in demand skill–great!

    that being said, you have posted a great deal here and have never shown any discernable reading comprehension skills, ability to respond point by point to any interlocutor, ability to construct a sound argument or write a clear, concise paragraph where almost every sentence didn’t start with “I”. these are crucial skills in the study of law and more importantly, in the pursuit of a law degree and membership in the bar.

    and no, i do not edit my posts at all. i was not talking about typos raine, i was talking about your natural ability to write. i have also read what passes for your blog. you write like a college freshman. sorry–it’s true

    Like


  565. joe, i graduated law school and then didn’t take the bar until 7-8 years later. i didn’t work in any field connected with law after i graduated and then thought i’d give it a try when i was casting about for something to do at 32 (aftering getting the first part of my diamond grading certification, i don’t know what i was thinking with that one.) basically, i love school and learning things, actually doing things isn’t my strong suit.

    i did pass the bar, but didn’t put a great deal of effort into looking for a job in law and never ended up doing more than an internship at a local small firm. con law class is fun–working in law, no fun.

    Like


  566. also joe, i don’t know about your friends, but at least when i was in school, the older return law students were almost all previously paralegals or involved in some closely related field.

    Like


  567. So dana what is passing on the bar?
    And how many chances do you get?
    And can you do it without going to school lol

    Like


  568. PA,
    Glad to see your post(s) finally made it out of moderation purgatory.

    PA: Reposting moderated comments:

    COMMENT ONE:

    “the higher the IQ, the harder it becomes for Males to socially relate to others”

    – The Obsidian

    PA: It’s not that simple. The sweet spot male IQ for Game is 110-130. This is according to this blog’s Dating Market Value for Men test, with which I agree. Above-average and high but non-genius IQ correlates with good looks, health, and a host of other positive attributes.

    O: Please see below comments for yet another debunking of your comment above.

    PA: Below 100 male IQ, you start seeing surly dumbasses, dim dopes, and such. Do introversion and nerdiness up at IQs higher than hundred-forty? In my personal observation, not more than with people of other intelligence levels. But I don’t knwo if this is a fact of just a cliche.

    O: Again, study does seem to show that extreme highs of IQ do tend to correlate w/social ineptitude, especially but not just limited to, Males. Further down in your comments you classically Ad Hom Half Sigma, but you don’t address the claims he’s made, based on the General Social Survey, I believe its called.

    110-130 IQ isn’t considered “genius” I believe, PA. Bright, yes, but not genius. What I’m talking about is the “mirror image” of the Bell Curve, and I am saying that there are real and lasting pitfalls and tradeoffs on the Right End just as much as the Left End. In the coming months, we will be examining this side of the BC. It’s way past due.

    At any rate, it has been observed, by among others Roissy himself, that Black Males tend to have more Natural Game than do White Males, on average. Question: in light of the supposedly lower average intelligence on the part of Black folks, how do you account for this?

    NOTE: “Iceberg Slim” the author of the book “Pimp”, had an IQ that exceeded 130 and briefly attended one of America’s best known HBCUs. His book, predating other well known works on Game by some six decades, is a powerful addition to anyone’s library wrt social dynamics and human relations.

    PA: In my estimation, Doug1, Esquire, and Roissy are likely over 130, and they don’t come across as guys who can’t socially relate to others. And Mencius, whose IQ is certainly off-the-charts, seems like a very alpha/personable guy, who also happens to be married and just had his first child.

    O: Indeed, all of the Men mentioned may indeed have such IQs, but their IQ, whatever it may be, is irrelevant. The issue here is, are Right Enders beset w/problems of their own? I say yes, the HBDsphere is silent on this matter.

    And I find Mencius’ blog to be quite tedious in reading, but that’s just a personal observation, and in no way is a commentary on his putative intelligence, one way or another.

    COMMENT TWO:

    PA: Obsidian, the gist of my moderated comment was that 110-130 IQ seesm to be the sweet spot for Game, and I expressed doubt about hundred-forty+ IQs being a “nerd cliff.”

    O: Then why is it that obstensibly dumber guys, ie Black Men, seem to have more Natural Game despite their lagging behind their White counterparts in IQ terms? For example, while I greatly appreciate what he has to say, a good bit of what Roissy says just comes very easily and naturally to me. Moreover, documented studies at places such as the NIH and the CDC clearly show Black Males having more sex partners and at earlier ages, again, which seems to support Roissy’s contention, among others. Please explain?

    O: why can’t smarter people simply fuck and make babies?

    PA: How many times was this responded to on this blog? Another angle on this: smart guys fuck plenty. But they tend to bang smarter and higher quality women, who are more reproductively-continent.

    O: As many times as is needed to counter the bleating of Right Enders sticking their noses into who, what and when Left Enders fuck, that’s what. And the fact remains, high IQ guys have sex less, have fewer kids, and their kids have a good chance having problems like Jim Watson’s kid, etc, et al. All of this is indeed documented. PA, I don’t recall you rattling off a list of Father-Son Nobel Prize winners yet. Must still be compiling the long list, no doubt.

    PA: For example, OneSTDV, Half Sigma and others in the HBDsphere

    O: Yes, others in the HBDsphere, including Audacious Epigone, Inductivist, Steve Sailer, etc, et al.

    PA: Half Sigma is a middling-IQ prole.

    O: That may be, but that isn’t at issue here, his postings on high IQ Males-and by that we mean, well beyond 130 (more like 140 and above)-are. So, are you saying that White Males w/IQs exceeding 140 points can and do socialize just as well as their lower-tiered brethren, PA? Because if you do, then you’d also be disagreeing w/OneSTDV. Just want to get you on the record.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  569. Black Military Men said:

    “Obsidian, I’d be interested to know how the women you consort with support themselves. You sure do seem to insinuate that you’re Sugar Daddy.”

    O: They work like the vast majority of Americans, BMM. I am “Sugar Daddy” to no one.

    Next question?

    O

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  570. on August 13, 2009 at 4:52 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Okay, I see the confusion here. I didn’t mean that I would wait until my son is 18 to even START working in Law. My son will be going to Valley Forge Military School (to live there) once he’s old enough (6th grade).

    [editor: yeah, he’s gonna need the military lash to keep him in line. good to see you recognize that your single mom lifestyle you’ve foisted on your bastard son will increase the likelihood of him growing up to be a delinquent.]

    So I only have about 5 years before he’s literally out of the house. I will miss him terribly and the $25,000.00 per year tuition kinda sucks, but I think every boy should receive a disciplined Military Education.

    Like


  571. on August 13, 2009 at 5:00 pm Wendy Schwartz

    I apologize in advance if my posts are fast and confusing,

    [editor: you should apologize for your posts being stupid.]

    I’m literally in the process of signing a new lease and moving to WAY larger place this week (even though I prefer living well within my means to save money) and I’m also in the ridiculous process of adopting a previously-abused Beagle named “Cupcake” (now that I’ll have like 3 extra bedrooms I have space for a puppy). So my apologies if I don’t make sense because I’m in a hurry.

    However I’m not looking forward to doing laundry because I don’t know how. Sadly I was the coddled kid growing up and my dad never let me do the hard chores like mow the lawn, vacuum, or do laundry. So to this day my sister still comes and takes my laundry and does it at her house (now I have no excuse because I’ll have a washer/dryer in the new place).

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  572. Black Military Man,

    In reply to your earlier comments:

    BMM: 2. Obsidian with your “everyone wants to BE us”, you sound like Alicia Keys accepting her BET award. Mind you, she’s HALF WHITE so maybe SHE’S the one that wishes she were fully black? That complex is not un-common amongst half-breeds.

    O: Perhaps, but that wasn’t the context in which I made my statement. Please Dreamer’s comments upthread, her sentiments properly frames my comments to which you are referring.

    BMM: 3. ALL CURRENT POP CULTURE is lowest common denominator. I agree with the poster way up who said that music and art used to be the domain of the ELITE who set the tone for the unwashed masses. Sure, it was high-brow and pretentious, but I’ll take that anyday over what’s coming out now.

    O: Please consider the following: Jill Scott, D’Angelo, Musiq Soulchild, Erykah Badu, Anthony Hamilton, Maxwell, Joe, etc, et al. All considered very good singers and musicians.

    BMM: Case in point: again Mystery. He’s a pop culture icon. He or his baby mama named their kid “Dakota Rain”. Lowest common denominator white trash trailer park name. Our equivalent in the black community is “Aquanetta”.

    O: The name Mystery or some Black parent chooses for heir kids is irrelevant to this discussion. The issue is that Black folks have made and continue to make, invaluable contributions to American Pop Culture. Period.

    BMM: And these my friends, are the “leaders” of the future.

    O: The people I listed above, yes I would say so.

    BMM: 5. Obsidian’s fantasy that he can get a black woman to agree to one-way polyamory. LOL!!!

    O: No fantasy, my friend, I don’t indulge in such trifles. I’ve done what I said, and could do so again if I so chose. Nor is it something that’s impossible to do or have.

    BMM: Sure, she’ll do that for a few months, maybe even 6. After that, she’s gettin’ some on the sly – and YOU KNOW IT (or you don’t, which means she’s good, VERY good).

    O: Studies have proven that Women in general, and this includes Black Women, tend to have fewer sexual partners than do Men. While this fact doesn’t completely negate what you’re saying above, it does suggest that the numbers of Women “getting some on the sly” aren’t that big. Moreover, study has also shown that Women are indeed willin to share a Man. Polygamy benefits Women, not Men, contrary to popular belief and urban legend.

    BMM: Our grandmothers’ generation tolerated that ish, not a single woman since!

    O: That’s not the current or recent historical demographic reality, BMM, per the US Census.

    BMM: 4. The madonna/whore complex. Used to be that madonna meant virgin til’ marriage and whore meant everything else. Nowadays I don’t even think we can talk in terms of madonna/whore. How many of you have wives/mates for whom you were their first sexual experience?

    O: Given that I’ve never taken up the Madonna/Whore argument to begin with, I have no comment either way. Not my fight.

    The Obsidian

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  573. LR choked out “already have recommendations from various Professors (some of which were Lawyers and one a Chief of Police in the area). Having people actually IN law that recommend you helps as well.”

    Ummmm do customers from your stripper days count towards entrance into law school? Or maybe it was guys you dealt with after arrests…not sure which.

    Oh and ya although I fail from time to time I reread ALL my posts AND spell check before sending them. Why wouldn’t you want to come across at the very least as semi-intelligent? Just sayin…

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  574. A shingle? What are you talking about? I don’t do construction, lol!!!

    Hanging a shingle refers to entering into solo private practice.

    Like


  575. LR whined “These are the types of women who hate me for being financially secure already, with nowhere to go but up from here on out.”

    Sweetheart your wage is pocket change to me. Just sayin…

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  576. on August 13, 2009 at 5:36 pm Wendy Schwartz

    What are you even talking about on the arrests? The only person who has gotten arrested multiple times in the past is me, lol. (Usually for getting into chick fights all the time as a teen or minor money matters)

    But that doesn’t matter because they never went on my juvenile record to start with. (you know… the whole “probationary probation” thing they do for kids who aren’t actual “criminals”.)

    Like


  577. LR, aoefe:

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  578. LR I LOVE (that’s sarcastic tone btw) how you point out lack of female solidarity. I particularly remember in early days you claiming how you hated women who had each others back. You claimed to dislike women and would rather be alone than defended. You don’t like to point out that Dana has had my back and I would have hers along with hmmmm let’s see – *Dreamer, Chic, Bhetti, Mandy XD and Been a Long Time, Lilgrl, S, Pupu and others. We seem to be strong women and don’t need to be rescued, but when push came to shove and any one of us were being unfairly bullied we’d speak up. I.e. Lurker/Mandy XD. Mostly we understand it’s the dynamic of the board. I didn’t say anything when AJ Travis was attacking Lilgrl cuz she enjoyed it and found it funny. I did speak up however when Nathan and King were attacking lilgrl’s appearance – unneccesary imho. *sorry if I’ve forgotten to name specific women.

    The lack of solidarity for you comes from your own behaviour – you’ve earned it chickie. Don’t throw it down to others as proof that we don’t support women.

    I should point out that the woman I mention above are much more likely to be sympathetic to the men who post here than not. We’re not here to tear a new A-hole in the blog but to support or politely refute positions made here. I’ll have those girls backs any day. Just sayin…

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  579. @Tupac

    She’s the bigger pussy but I’d still win. 😉

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  580. And I might be willing to chip in on some tickets even though I didn’t see that vid. That could be a main event put you in the samuri blow up suits.

    Like


  581. also joe, i don’t know about your friends, but at least when i was in school, the older return law students were almost all previously paralegals or involved in some closely related field.

    If you go to a top 10 school, they won’t care if you were in legal profession beforehand, as long as you have good work experience in general. One of the people I’m speaking of was in computer science for example. And if you are from a top 5 law school with journal experience to boot, you could even have been a bricklayer for all they care.

    I don’t think it was your age that worked against you, I think it’s the post-law school track you took.

    Like


  582. oh, yeh i totally agree–age didn’t help though that’s all–it was a lot of things

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  583. aoefe, you’re a good woman. I wish I had a good female friend like you to chat with on a regular basis. 🙂

    One day I sat down and tried to write you something long about your past experiences, but I decided it was sounding stupid and too much on the side of unsolicited advice.

    Anyway, this goes for you and me both. 😉 Don’t let the negativity get you down. Focus on the positive things. Not saying you should be blind to the darker stuff, but try to be in a good frame of mind and don’t get entangled in unnecessary arguments.

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  584. Dreamer–

    I don’t think Obs. meant that people want to be black. Black culture/ attitude is emulated by all races, including white. Other races may not want to literally be black, but they do emulate the cultural attitudes.

    What’s been going on in the US starting with jazz coming to national attention, the first time African Americans came to be seen by substantial minorities of Americans in a partially favorable light, as opposed to just less negative a one than some/many had as was e.g. true of abolitionists before the Civil War etc., is that blacks have been seen as both more primitive and an influence which can losen things up more but not too disastrously either for whites, if in the right mix. Something “down and dirty” to stick a toe into. Or maybe more. But not too much. Except for a small number, at first tiny.

    It’s been an endlessly recurring theme from then to now by way of the tens and then then big time in twenties with the Cotton club full of black entertainers and downtown whities come to “forbidden” Harlem for some bad and nasty underground – and lots of other places like it if a bit dimmer in Harlem and Chicago and St. Louis and so on. The Harlem Renaissance. The Depression slowed this down and it became a decidedly smaller number of whitey “adventurers” with by then a heavily communist and often Jewish cast to it as opposed to the gangster and then eventually hipper side of society caste to the 20s venturers to the black “underground”. But that went on all over the country by then and involved heavily as I said lefty/commie often Jewish type whities. For the first time more than a handful of white women/black men sexual adventuring went on, among far left women, outside of some white hookers black pimps previously or mistresses to black club owners /gangsters perhaps, dunno guessing there. Marijuana was big and heroin was around.

    After WWII it the voyaging underground spread more widely though still with a left cast to it, but it wasn’t nearly so radical by then. And so on to the fifties with the beginings of a mass civil rights movement including among whites.

    with a bit of a rest but not entirely by any means in the thirties and then coming back strong in the forties

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  585. LR

    nova: Hanging a shingle refers to entering into solo private practice.

    It’s a “quaint” yee olde reference to days of yore when penniless young attorneys freshly minted from law school or unpaid apprenticeships with another lawyer or couple of them (a primitive American firm) and having passed the bar exam, would failing two pennies to rub together scratch their name followed by something like “Attorney at Law” in chalk or paint on the nearest available cast off shingle at hand, and nail it to the outside of their rude one room “office”, rented no doubt by the week, and sit, hopefully awaiting passers by as clients. (Advertising being made illegal by the guild from then until oh about 25 years ago.) So uncertain were the prospects.

    Like


  586. on August 13, 2009 at 9:06 pm Black Military Man

    BMM: Case in point: again Mystery. He’s a pop culture icon. He or his baby mama named their kid “Dakota Rain”. Lowest common denominator white trash trailer park name. Our equivalent in the black community is “Aquanetta”.

    O: The name Mystery or some Black parent chooses for heir kids is irrelevant to this discussion. The issue is that Black folks have made and continue to make, invaluable contributions to American Pop Culture. Period.

    SINCE WHEN has Erykah Badu ever been “pop” culture?

    Also, you’ve missed a couple of my posts wherein the topic was “game enabling men to pull women out of their league”.

    Beauty-wise, only. Mystery’s baby mama naming their kid “Dakota Rain” is evidence that he is pulling women within his league, and possibly lower. class and culture wise, though granted, perhaps out of his league beauty wise.

    Therein lies the relevance of some silly named kid to the topic.

    Like


  587. on August 13, 2009 at 9:33 pm Wendy Schwartz

    Aoefe–

    I seriously have no idea at this point what you are going on about. So now you’re upset that I laughed at the idea of female solidarity? That’s because there is no such thing and any woman who says otherwise is lying.

    Women only like other women who remind them of themselves. Submissive traditional girls don’t like me for obvious reasons and Feminists don’t like me because I think they’re lazy golddiggers for the most part.

    I refuse to “pick a group” just to get along with women. I have no interest in female friendships. They don’t serve me any purpose. It’s just not my thing, but if you’re soooo insulted that I said there’s no such thing as solidarity, whatever….then continue to lie because it’s surfact bullshit and I’ve never met a woman who wasn’t a gossipy, jealous, backstabber who wants to cry and share her feelings with me. Again….not my thing. I don’t want to hear anyone’s probs unless its someone who affects my life. Otherwise….the female stuff girls like is not what I like and I just don’t find anything interesting about most girls.

    I just sort of wave them off if they try to befriend me or whatever….I can be polite, but it’s just for show. Men are the only “just friends” that can be trusted. (and my sister)

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  588. on August 13, 2009 at 9:40 pm Wendy Schwartz

    In actuality Aoefe, you’re just being a boo-hoo kitty because I’ve defended Beth, Bonnie, and especially Mandy XD on mulitple occasions because they’re smart.

    I seriously would be a little afraid if someone like you who believes what you do, defended me. No offense your life is yours….but i wouldn’t expect you to understand enough to defend my position (nor do I need it) shit it’s a forum, not real life….and in real life people who don’t like what I say can just walk away or find themselves yelling at no one because I don’t hang around for people’s opinions of me or engage in fights about it.

    My way works for ME. I had a life plan and so far it’s almost to a tee what I wanted. I don’t expect others to want the same things, nor do I wish things to change, so I just find it funny all the “female hatred” when I’m one person who couldn’t give less of a shit what you girls do with yourselves one way or another.

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  589. Dave Alex,
    Just caught your response upthread. Here’s mine:

    DA: I have never been in a fight. Twelve years of Catholic School tend to do that.

    O: Trust me when I tell you, merely going to Catholic School will NOT ensure that you never get into fights. Kids are kids anywhere you go, and often they’ll fight, especially if they’re males. My cousin went to Catholic Schools like you and he saw quite a few of fights.

    O: And that’s what you are, Dave. An antisocial personality.

    DA: Just because I choose not to date doesn’t make me anti-social. If you’re well aware that you’re not wanted, then being avoidant isn’t being anti-social, especially if there’s no hatred of the rest of society involved.

    O: WRONG. You don’t know “if you’re not wanted” because there’s no way in hell you’ve talked to every Woman in NYC let alone the Eastern Corridor. You’re antisocial and even Bhetti noted this in her comments to you. You’re just not mean and nasty w/it is all. But you’re antisocial just the same.

    Not only don’t you date but you don’t attend social functions, do go out to do anything, especially w/other human beings, etc, et al. That’s fairly antisocial to most folk. And instead of finding reasons to engage yourself, you do the opposite. Classic antisocial behavior.

    O: As for Women who don’t like Betas, not true-even Roissy has said as much, if you actually read closely what he says.

    DA: IIRC, Roissy and numerous commenters have said that’s true. And those beta males will be cheated upon by their Asian lovers when those women find even better partners.

    O: Please show me the quote where Roissy says that White Beta Herb types are cheated on by their Asian wives/girlfriends? He specifically states otherwise, as recently as this week. I’ll wait.

    O: Translation-I’m too afraid of rejection to make any difference in my life, my dad in essence failed, and my mom had undue influence on my life.

    DA: Again, I said outright, I couldn’t be bothered because the relationship will fail outright in the medium to long-term, and quite frankly, the entire concept of dating just gets in the way of the home-work-home loop.

    DA: And leave my dad out of it. He did not fail.

    O: If by “fail” we mean that your late Dad failed to pass on the skills and tools needed for his eldest son to navigate this world, which includes arguably the singlemost important area of his life, which would be Women/sex/relationships, judging by all objective criteria, I would beg to differ, and so would just about everyone else on this site. He indeed failed.

    O: By definition, a Gold Digger wouldn’t be looking at YOU for ANYTHING, because you have NOTHING they would EVER want, Dave.

    DA: I know that I’d never attract a woman with my current wages, but in an alternate world where I make white collar “career” wages or I work on the railroad making nearly $100K per year, I’d be a target for golddiggers who want to extract my wages for their own personal gain.

    O: LOL! Yea, and in an alternate world, you’d be neck deep in fingernail having, high heel wearing pussy, too. That has got to be thee lamest thing I’ve ever heard you say, boy.

    O: Newsflash: they aint that hard to find, and many would actually welcome the chance to have a younger Man servicing her on the regular.

    DA: Yes, but I’d have to go through the logistics of going out to go meet one and at that point, I couldn’t be bothered so yes, I’m too lazy to do it.

    O: See? Being honest w/yourself isn’t so bad now is it?

    O: Not sure I follow here

    DA: It’s merely a proxy for finding females as friends. As long as she isn’t mentally ill, and I can tolerate her existence while she tolerates my boring tales is basically a candidate.

    O: Why is it necessary to find or use “proxies”? Wouldn’t it be simpler to simply state outright what you were looking for?

    O: I’m not sure how being or not being “the nigger” applies here.

    DA: The nigger is the proxy for a loser or in this case, the submissive partner that just goes along with what the dominant wants. I’m not looking for somebody to dominate over me, but I just want an equal that I can enjoy the experience with.

    O: Then you have a completely ignorant view of what “submissive” means, which, as per usual, isn’t surprising in the least coming from you.

    The Obsidian

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  590. Hope kindly offererd “aoefe, you’re a good woman. I wish I had a good female friend like you to chat with on a regular basis”

    That’s very nice of you to say, thanks. The LR thing goes waaay back, we arrived at the same time in Roissy world or thereabouts. She irritates me (obviously), although truthfully I just like having fun with her. All in all she’s a pretty damn good sport. 🙂

    Oh and send me a post or comment or even private email, I have no issues with getting to know others outside of this forum. 🙂

    Like


  591. aoefe: The Sisterhood lives! Burn your bras! (Replace with corsets! I kid… ?)

    My back being had is very lovely and good to know. I shall indeed attempt to have your back, when the occasion demands it. Quite.

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  592. Burn my bra? You’ve seen my HNT today right? You’d have to have my back without that pretty contraption cuz I’d be needing massages weekly. Course I do have a very sexy, stylish, not victorian style corset and that I’d consent to wear. 🙂

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  593. Trust me when I tell you, merely going to Catholic School will NOT ensure that you never get into fights.

    You’re right. I saw a number of fights between students at varying levels of Catholic School, but otherwise, most of the people that I knew from Catholic School avoided fights. Mind you, my evidence is anecdotal and may be different from your perspective. I managed never to get into a point where anybody was instigated. I was quiet, didn’t bother anybody, and I didn’t talk shit about anybody in public.

    You don’t know “if you’re not wanted” because there’s no way in hell you’ve talked to every Woman in NYC let alone the Eastern Corridor.

    I’ve receieved enough dirty looks to know that I’m not wanted. Hell, there are times where I’d rather stand than endure the dirty looks from having to sit next to a woman.

    Please show me the quote where Roissy says that White Beta Herb types are cheated on by their Asian wives/girlfriends?

    The reference was to women’s general discontentment with beta males in general. I still contend that Asian women will cheat on their white boyfriends if they can secure superior and more alpha males even in the context of a concealed short-term relationship.

    Not only don’t you date but you don’t attend social functions

    Why should I bore a bunch of real world people with the visual scar of my visage?

    do go out to do anything, especially w/other human beings

    Not enough money, nobody to do things with.

    LOL! Yea, and in an alternate world, you’d be neck deep in fingernail having, high heel wearing pussy, too. That has got to be thee lamest thing I’ve ever heard you say, boy.

    No, in an alternate world, I’d end up either alone and single, or tricked into a relationship by some golddigging whore who pretends to love me and fakes her orgasms while she bangs an alpha behind my back. Girls with nails tend to do better.

    Newsflash: they aint that hard to find, and many would actually welcome the chance to have a younger Man servicing her on the regular.

    Firstly, that doesn’t lead to a relationship, and secondly, even those women can do far better than me. They can get somebody taller and better looking with actual sexual energy and power. Hell, I’d imagine that a standard dildo can deliver a better orgasm than I ever could.

    I’m not sure how being or not being “the nigger” applies here.

    The nigger is generally the person who is always treated like shit. Within each group, there’s always a nigger regardless of race or ethnicity, and to a certain extent, submissiveness in sex is being the “nigger”.

    Like


  594. Dave Alex,

    Replies below:

    O: You don’t know “if you’re not wanted” because there’s no way in hell you’ve talked to every Woman in NYC let alone the Eastern Corridor.

    DA: I’ve receieved enough dirty looks to know that I’m not wanted. Hell, there are times where I’d rather stand than endure the dirty looks from having to sit next to a woman.

    O: Dave, you live in the Dirty Looks Capital of the world, LOL. Who CARES what dirty looks you or anyone else gets? If you stand on a train or bus because of that, yea, you deserve to get “got” by err gold digger out there.

    O: Please show me the quote where Roissy says that White Beta Herb types are cheated on by their Asian wives/girlfriends?

    DA: The reference was to women’s general discontentment with beta males in general. I still contend that Asian women will cheat on their white boyfriends if they can secure superior and more alpha males even in the context of a concealed short-term relationship.

    O: And your “contention” is based on what actual, realworld evidence? Again, I haven’t heard Roissy or anyone else here or anywhere else, actually say what you just said, wrt Asian gals.

    O: Not only don’t you date but you don’t attend social functions

    DA: Why should I bore a bunch of real world people with the visual scar of my visage?

    O: Because you don’t know what they think, only what YOU think what they think.

    O: do go out to do anything, especially w/other human beings

    DA: Not enough money, nobody to do things with.

    O: Bullshit, money has nothing to do with it.

    O: LOL! Yea, and in an alternate world, you’d be neck deep in fingernail having, high heel wearing pussy, too. That has got to be thee lamest thing I’ve ever heard you say, boy.

    DA: No, in an alternate world, I’d end up either alone and single, or tricked into a relationship by some golddigging whore who pretends to love me and fakes her orgasms while she bangs an alpha behind my back. Girls with nails tend to do better.

    O: Girls w/nails tend to be the very gold diggers you profess to hate, LOL. Nice try on errthing else, too, but as per usual, no cigar. Try again.

    O: Newsflash: they aint that hard to find, and many would actually welcome the chance to have a younger Man servicing her on the regular.

    DA: Firstly, that doesn’t lead to a relationship, and secondly, even those women can do far better than me.

    O: Who said it had to lead to a relationship? Maybe it was just supposed to be a brief sexual encounter, and if so, great, and if it leads to something more, great. Why are you so invested in it leading to a relationship?

    DA: They can get somebody taller and better looking with actual sexual energy and power. Hell, I’d imagine that a standard dildo can deliver a better orgasm than I ever could.

    O: Given your sexual apathy in realtime w/real Women, you’re probably right. Kick the porn to the curb though, and in about a month or two you’ll be good to go. Like your Momma, Porn is a kind of crutch that you need to get rid of. Your Daddy should have told you these things, and it’s very sad that you never had these kinds of talks w/him. Very, very sad, indeed.
    Second, sure, there are always taller and better looking Men around, just like there are always more beautiful Women around. So what. You’re making excuses again, which are beyond tired. Besides, who are you to determine for ANY Woman who she does and doesn’t find sexually attractive? There are Women out there who find you sexually attractive, and your hubris combined w/extreme antisocial ways gets in the way of you seeing that simple fact. You don’t get in the mix because of the very real chance that all your precious ideas would be proven flatout wrong. In this respect your no different than the Flat Earthers or the Anti-The Wire folk like Whiskey and Doug.

    O: I’m not sure how being or not being “the nigger” applies here.

    DA: The nigger is generally the person who is always treated like shit. Within each group, there’s always a nigger regardless of race or ethnicity, and to a certain extent, submissiveness in sex is being the “nigger”.

    O: When you actually get some experience sexually along these lines, come back. We can then have a more informed discussion.

    Homework assignment for Dave Alex: please view the film The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

    The Obsidian

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  595. Dave, you live in the Dirty Looks Capital of the world, LOL. Who CARES what dirty looks you or anyone else gets? If you stand on a train or bus because of that, yea, you deserve to get “got” by err gold digger out there.

    I get looks in New York, DC, Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and San Jose. The city doesn’t make a difference. I get dirty looks at the mall, college, church, and supermarket. And standing on the train is an excellent way to avoid interacting with people who don’t want you in their presence. Doing so doesn’t magically mean that I deserve to be ripped off by a golddigger.

    And your “contention” is based on what actual, realworld evidence?

    The extrapolation is based on an extension of Roissy’s theory. While these white men may be more alpha than their Asian counterparts, once these women find even more alpha white males, they’ll choose to cheat with them while concealing the affair from their beta boyfriend.

    Because you don’t know what they think, only what YOU think what they think.

    It’s pretty obvious that I’ve bored people before, so it’s a safe bet that I’ll continue to do so in the future.

    Bullshit, money has nothing to do with it.

    Stuff costs money. Going to a bar or a nice restaurant with friends isn’t magically cheap.

    Girls w/nails tend to be the very gold diggers you profess to hate, LOL. Nice try on errthing else, too, but as per usual, no cigar. Try again.

    Then you’ve made masturbation more attractive. I get the nails, but without the golddigging.

    Why are you so invested in it leading to a relationship?

    It’s easier to keep having sex with the same person than to go through the entire mess of finding another woman unless you have kick-ass game that allows you to seduce women on a nightly basis.

    Kick the porn to the curb though, and in about a month or two you’ll be good to go.

    I went without porn and masturbation for Lent and nothing happened. I generally felt crankier and more miserable without it.

    Daddy should have told you these things, and it’s very sad that you never had these kinds of talks w/him.

    Actually, he wanted me to stop doing masturbating to porn*, but I didn’t bother listening to him, and my habits were easier to hide with hidden hard drives and masturbation sessions in the middle of the night or when he wasn’t home.

    *And go to the gym and exercise and go to Athena’s party and other unaffiliated events.

    Second, sure, there are always taller and better looking Men around, just like there are always more beautiful Women around.

    Yes, but the dynamic of sexual affairs means that one man can have several female relations. Thus, the women can all share their better man in lieu of having to deal with me.

    Besides, who are you to determine for ANY Woman who she does and doesn’t find sexually attractive?

    But if there are better men out there, the only conclusion is that the female in unable to secure a better man, and thus she is massively fucked up. In other words, why should I deal with a fucked up woman?

    There are Women out there who find you sexually attractive

    Yes, but you’re missing the important question. Is she sexually attractive to me? Women who claim to find me attractive are useless if they can’t induce an erection and the accompanying orgasm. Otherwise, they make for excellent friends until they become sick of me.

    Homework assignment for Dave Alex: please view the film The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

    I don’t watch claptrap movies based on bizzare absurdist premises.

    Like


  596. Wendy Schwartz

    That’s because anti-depressants have to be weaned off of just like anything else your body is used to. Any doctor worth his salt knows that. It’s not because they’re “so crazy” and mentally cannot handle it, it’s because the physical body and brain go through actual literal withdraw and tend to “misfire” for a couple of weeks until their body adjusts.

    Total agreement on this. Personally, I’m 100% opposed to taking anything that screws with brain chemistry or body chemistry for that matter. Let me guess…someone will say that eating food screws with your chemistry so I guess we shouldn’t eat. Personally I prefer natural insanity to unnatural equilibrium. I prefer a natural suicide as opposed to one whose catalyst is an anti depressant drug. Just my personal preference you understand.

    Like


  597. Dave Alex,

    DA: I get looks in New York, DC, Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and San Jose. The city doesn’t make a difference. I get dirty looks at the mall, college, church, and supermarket. And standing on the train is an excellent way to avoid interacting with people who don’t want you in their presence. Doing so doesn’t magically mean that I deserve to be ripped off by a golddigger.

    O: So? Dirty looks don’t mean squat. I don’t even notice stuff like that.

    O: And your “contention” is based on what actual, realworld evidence?

    DA: The extrapolation is based on an extension of Roissy’s theory. While these white men may be more alpha than their Asian counterparts, once these women find even more alpha white males, they’ll choose to cheat with them while concealing the affair from their beta boyfriend.

    O: Again, you have no actual case studies to back this up, not even anecdotes. Its all a product of the little hamster up in your head, running his ass off. Try again.

    O: Because you don’t know what they think, only what YOU think what they think.

    DA: It’s pretty obvious that I’ve bored people before, so it’s a safe bet that I’ll continue to do so in the future.

    O: So? And besides, that’s only true if you want it to be. You can change that if you want.

    O: Bullshit, money has nothing to do with it.

    DA: Stuff costs money. Going to a bar or a nice restaurant with friends isn’t magically cheap.

    O: No, its not, but from one Black Man to another, trust me, you can have a very good time on a shoe string. And unlike you, this isn’t something I’ve read or heard about, or “extrapolated” on, it’s something I know, that I’ve done and lived. You don’t need money to have a good time hanging out, people do it all the time.

    O: Girls w/nails tend to be the very gold diggers you profess to hate, LOL. Nice try on errthing else, too, but as per usual, no cigar. Try again.

    DA: Then you’ve made masturbation more attractive. I get the nails, but without the golddigging.

    O: No, you just find another excuse not to grow up.

    O: Why are you so invested in it leading to a relationship?

    DA: It’s easier to keep having sex with the same person than to go through the entire mess of finding another woman unless you have kick-ass game that allows you to seduce women on a nightly basis.

    O: Or you have access to a computer. You can meet, and bed, hundreds of Women online, and don’t need any Game or very little. I have friends who’ve done it. Known others who met their wives that way. At any rate, your focus on relationships, in light of your gold digging thing, is yet another example of the nature of your illogical thinking at work.

    O: Kick the porn to the curb though, and in about a month or two you’ll be good to go.

    DA: I went without porn and masturbation for Lent and nothing happened. I generally felt crankier and more miserable without it.

    O: I didn’t speculate on your emotional state, I merely suggested that your sexual apathy towards Women in the realworld would disappear if you kicked Porn to the curb. And I stand by that.

    O: Daddy should have told you these things, and it’s very sad that you never had these kinds of talks w/him.

    DA: Actually, he wanted me to stop doing masturbating to porn*, but I didn’t bother listening to him, and my habits were easier to hide with hidden hard drives and masturbation sessions in the middle of the night or when he wasn’t home.

    *And go to the gym and exercise and go to Athena’s party and other unaffiliated events.

    O: How often did you and yor dad talk, Dave? I mean, specifically about Women, sex, relationships, etc?

    O: Second, sure, there are always taller and better looking Men around, just like there are always more beautiful Women around.

    DA: Yes, but the dynamic of sexual affairs means that one man can have several female relations. Thus, the women can all share their better man in lieu of having to deal with me.

    O: That’s true, but it leaves out the important fact that Women can also have a string of Men as lovers. None of which actually deals w/my point, which is that there is always a bigger fish, and using that as an excuse not to apply oneself, while it sounds good, is actually a form of cowardice. From life itself.

    O: Besides, who are you to determine for ANY Woman who she does and doesn’t find sexually attractive?

    DA: But if there are better men out there, the only conclusion is that the female in unable to secure a better man, and thus she is massively fucked up. In other words, why should I deal with a fucked up woman?

    O: An assumption that on its face may appear to be sound, but upon closer inspection may not be sound at all. You’re attempting to apply a very shoddy form of logic onto an inherently illogical exercise. For example, I could make mincemeat of all the logical fallacies you contain within yourself Dave Alex, about your sexual compulsions and how they do not jibe in any way in the least w/what you claim to want in a longterm mate, yet how even that doesn’t jibe w/your incessant obsessing over “gold diggers” in relation to marriage.

    O: There are Women out there who find you sexually attractive

    DA: Yes, but you’re missing the important question. Is she sexually attractive to me? Women who claim to find me attractive are useless if they can’t induce an erection and the accompanying orgasm. Otherwise, they make for excellent friends until they become sick of me.

    O: No, you’re changing the goalposts and I’ve actually answered your question on the other Relationship Game thread, because I know how you think. Please do not try to change what I said: who are you to determine what a Woman is or is not sexually attracted to? What YOU’RE sexually attracted here is irrelevant, were talking about what Women are sexually attracted to. In this case, Women who may find you sexually attractive. Period.

    O: Homework assignment for Dave Alex: please view the film The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

    DA: I don’t watch claptrap movies based on bizzare absurdist premises.

    O: Neither did I, until I actually saw it. Now I have a different view. Just goes to show the big difference btw you and me. I’m willing to be wrong about my, in this case, totally unfounded assumptions. You, on the other hand, would rather cling to said unfounded assumptions,come hell or high water. Which explains why I get laid, a lot, and you don’t, at all.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  598. So? Dirty looks don’t mean squat. I don’t even notice stuff like that.

    You’re lucky. I get at least one dirty look per day.

    Because you don’t know what they think, only what YOU think what they think.

    Given that the general trend is for women to find more alphaish mates, it’s obvious that the white male-Asian female parings are fueled by alpha lust, and thus, said lust will eventually push the females into even more alphaish men.

    So? And besides, that’s only true if you want it to be. You can change that if you want.

    If you find normal people stuff interesting, then yes. If you don’t then, it’s far harder.

    No, its not, but from one Black Man to another, trust me, you can have a very good time on a shoe string.

    Dude, just going out to eat by myself eats up a third of my bi-weekly spending money as does railfanning or roadgeeking. Hell, just playing around on the light rail ended up being a $25 adventure…

    No, you just find another excuse not to grow up.

    If I like girls with nails, but girls with nails are golddiggers, then the only solution is to turn to porn to avoid them.

    You can meet, and bed, hundreds of Women online, and don’t need any Game or very little.

    Non-ugly women that will induce erection and arousal or the average woman with zero physical sexual appeal? Or somebody ugly enough that people will laugh at me behind my back?

    I merely suggested that your sexual apathy towards Women in the realworld would disappear if you kicked Porn to the curb.

    Going off porn didn’t make me want real world women. Thanfully, I was able to refrain from dealing with such creatures for the purposes of orgasm.

    How often did you and yor dad talk, Dave? I mean, specifically about Women, sex, relationships, etc?

    Rarely, and due to my own preference in avoiding the topic.

    which is that there is always a bigger fish, and using that as an excuse not to apply oneself, while it sounds good, is actually a form of cowardice.

    Fine then. I’d rather be a coward than go fail and make an ass of myself and live with the memories of failure, embarassment, and idiocy etched in my brain to replay for the next fifty years.

    who are you to determine what a Woman is or is not sexually attracted to?

    As a group, we’ve established that women are attracted to alpha males. I am not an alpha male and have no characteristics of such a male. Thus, it’s silly and absurd to even conclude that a woman would be attracted to me if I lack all traits. Hence, my claim that any woman that finds me attractive has an issue that prevents her from properly disciminating against inferior males, or her desire for a partner is so strong, her low rank forces her onto males like myself.

    What YOU’RE sexually attracted here is irrelevant, were talking about what Women are sexually attracted to.

    In the off chance that a non-disfunctional female was attracted to me, it’s still useless from my perspective is she is incapable of inducing physical sexual attraction in me. 500 women could come up to me right now to offer me sex, but they’re useless unless they’re sexually attractive to me.

    Neither did I, until I actually saw it.

    So you wasted your time watching an idiotic claptrap movie with the most absurd fucking premise of a movie in the past five years.

    Like


  599. w/what you claim to want in a longterm mate, yet how even that doesn’t jibe w/your incessant obsessing over “gold diggers” in relation to marriage.

    Ahh, that’s the problem. It’s impossible to have a long-term relationship because the entire purpose of an LTR is for her to secure her tentacles deep enough to ensure you’re stupid and drunk enough to begin handing over your resources at near full capacity. Thus, a short-term relationship where both partners are aware of the nature of the relationship is best since there’s no golddigging, all partners are aware of their role and purpose, and you don’t have to deal with finding a new girl immediately.

    Like


  600. Dave Alex,
    Good morning! I see you have a fresh, albeit somewhat tired, round of excuses for me today. Let’s dive right in:

    Obsidian: So? Dirty looks don’t mean squat. I don’t even notice stuff like that.

    Dave Alex: You’re lucky. I get at least one dirty look per day.

    O: I make my own luck.

    O: Because you don’t know what they think, only what YOU think what they think.

    DA: Given that the general trend is for women to find more alphaish mates, it’s obvious that the white male-Asian female parings are fueled by alpha lust, and thus, said lust will eventually push the females into even more alphaish men.

    O: Again, how do you know? Big hint: YOU DON’T. Have you even talked to any Asian Women who hav White hubbies or boyfriends, Dave? LilGrl is an Asian gal, have you talked to her? What about Hope? I mean, you really should stop this sort of thing while you’re ahead. It doesn’t make you look good.

    O: So? And besides, that’s only true if you want it to be. You can change that if you want.

    DA: If you find normal people stuff interesting, then yes. If you don’t then, it’s far harder.

    O: Dave Alex, I could pull gals w/the exact same things that interest you. Which, from what I can tell, is trains, cameras and porn. In fact, I have pulled a number of gals on the strength of my knowledge of the porn industry and some of its biggest stars past and present. And I could do the same thing w/the railroad thing, whatever. I’ve pulled gals by talking about comic books. Movies. Sports. Heck, even politics, LOL, although that can be tricky. The thing there is displaying one’s smarts, and don’t let anyone fool you, Women like smart guys. You just can’t be geeky or dorky w/it. And it don’t take much to get out of that space. My checklist I gave you sometime back is a good place to start.

    O: No, its not, but from one Black Man to another, trust me, you can have a very good time on a shoe string.

    DA: Dude, just going out to eat by myself eats up a third of my bi-weekly spending money as does railfanning or roadgeeking. Hell, just playing around on the light rail ended up being a $25 adventure…

    O: Dude, you can go to an all-you-can-eat deal for half the cost of you jerking off on the train above. I’ve done it. A lot. You can get Chinese takeout w/a gal and just kick it at your or her spot. I’ve done it. A lot. You can go stop at Rita’s and cop some water ices for the two of y’all and then take a walk, like Jill Scott says. I’ve done that too. Quite a bit.

    For every excuse you can conjure up, I can counter it with actual real life stuff I’ve done when I wasn’t flush w/Benjamins. As I’ve often said, and I maintain till the day The Obsidian is no more, that the best time for a Man to learn Game is when he’s got little to no money. That’s when you know your skills are solid and strong.

    O: No, you just find another excuse not to grow up.

    DA: If I like girls with nails, but girls with nails are golddiggers, then the only solution is to turn to porn to avoid them.

    O: That’s certainly ONE solution, no doubt about that. It by no means is the ONLY solution, only the solution that goes the route of least resistance-in other words, the easiest to pull off. I don’t had many Women w/nails and toes done who never pumped me for cash. Next question?

    O: You can meet, and bed, hundreds of Women online, and don’t need any Game or very little.

    DA: Non-ugly women that will induce erection and arousal or the average woman with zero physical sexual appeal? Or somebody ugly enough that people will laugh at me behind my back?

    O: The Internet mirrors the realworld, Dave, there’s all types out there. My buds managed to get some gals who were very pleasing to the eyes. Give it a whirl, or is that also too much of a bother? LOL

    O: I merely suggested that your sexual apathy towards Women in the realworld would disappear if you kicked Porn to the curb.

    DA: Going off porn didn’t make me want real world women. Thanfully, I was able to refrain from dealing with such creatures for the purposes of orgasm.

    O: How often did you and yor dad talk, Dave? I mean, specifically about Women, sex, relationships, etc?

    DA: Rarely, and due to my own preference in avoiding the topic.

    O: That’s too bad. Truly.

    DA: which is that there is always a bigger fish, and using that as an excuse not to apply oneself, while it sounds good, is actually a form of cowardice.

    DA: Fine then. I’d rather be a coward than go fail and make an ass of myself and live with the memories of failure, embarassment, and idiocy etched in my brain to replay for the next fifty years.

    O: LOL. Nice try but no cigar. The Law of Averages says you can’t just strikeout forever, and ask around here Dave, the fellas will agree w/me. Even Mystery himself says that if one *misapplies* Game they can stil be successful by sheer dint of doing enough approaches. At any rate, this is why your dad tried to get you interested in sport, although in my view too late (he should’ve started you off on that as soon as you could walk and talk), because Sports is a very, very important Rite of Passage for Males. Among other things, it teaches Males how to cope w/loss and failure, because they are a big part of a Man’s life.

    One of my favorite movies is Wyatt Earp, starring Kevin Costner. Early on in his life, the love of his life dies of typhoid; he burns down the home they shared and errthing in it, and then sets off on a multi-month drinking binge, “looking to get himself killed soon”.

    When he’s arrested for horse theft, a capital offence in those days, it is Earp’s strongwilled father, played by venerable acting legend Gene Hackman, who posts his bail, as well as promising to represent him as his legal counsel. But he knows what will happen if his son goes to trial-they’ll hang him.

    Anyway, he tells Wyatt-

    “You think you’re the first Man to lose someone? That’s what life is all about-loss. But we don’t use that as an excuse to destroy ourselves. We go on. All of us. Even you, Wyatt.”.

    I’ve memorized those lines because they hold tremendous import for me, having known what loss tastes like, Dave. And is why I’m the last person in the solar system for you to try to run that tired shit to. Because I done already been there, done all dat. Stop makin excuses, and Man the Fuck Up.

    With all due respect.

    O: who are you to determine what a Woman is or is not sexually attracted to?

    DA: As a group, we’ve established that women are attracted to alpha males. I am not an alpha male and have no characteristics of such a male. Thus, it’s silly and absurd to even conclude that a woman would be attracted to me if I lack all traits. Hence, my claim that any woman that finds me attractive has an issue that prevents her from properly disciminating against inferior males, or her desire for a partner is so strong, her low rank forces her onto males like myself.

    O: A “claim” that isn’t based on anything other than what you think. It’s not based on any field testing on your part, and at least if you had done those 20 or so day approaches Tood suggested to you, and failed accross he board, you’d at least have a leg to stand on. But you didn’t, and you don’t. As per usual.

    O: What YOU’RE sexually attracted here is irrelevant, were talking about what Women are sexually attracted to.

    DA: In the off chance that a non-disfunctional female was attracted to me, it’s still useless from my perspective is she is incapable of inducing physical sexual attraction in me. 500 women could come up to me right now to offer me sex, but they’re useless unless they’re sexually attractive to me.

    O: Again, irrelevant. We’re not discussing what you find sexually attractive. So what. We’re talkin about what a Woman, or group of Women, find sexually attractive. And trust me when I tell you, there are indeed Women out there who would find you sexually attractive. There, I’ve said it.

    O: Neither did I, until I actually saw it.

    DA: So you wasted your time watching an idiotic claptrap movie with the most absurd fucking premise of a movie in the past five years.

    O: Only if you consider watching such a flick w/a seriously Hot Mama and then getting mad pussy afterward is a waste of time, then yup, I would agree. I got laid in part as a result of that flick, so if and when I ever meet Mr. Brad Pitt, I gotta shake the Man’s hand. Maybe if you aped The Obsidian, you too could get more action than either of your hands could offer. Just sayin.

    O: w/what you claim to want in a longterm mate, yet how even that doesn’t jibe w/your incessant obsessing over “gold diggers” in relation to marriage.

    DA: Ahh, that’s the problem. It’s impossible to have a long-term relationship because the entire purpose of an LTR is for her to secure her tentacles deep enough to ensure you’re stupid and drunk enough to begin handing over your resources at near full capacity. Thus, a short-term relationship where both partners are aware of the nature of the relationship is best since there’s no golddigging, all partners are aware of their role and purpose, and you don’t have to deal with finding a new girl immediately.

    O: Ahh. So, since you’ve got it all figured out, why ain’t you putting the Grand Plan into action? What’s up with that?

    Please explain?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  601. Because you don’t know what they think, only what YOU think what they think.

    Let’s see how this works. I enter somewhere in the public sphere, numerous women see me and give dirty looks. Thus, the only reasonable conclusion is that women are repulsed by me. None of my other male friends get such looks, nor does my younger brother.

    I mean, you really should stop this sort of thing while you’re ahead. It doesn’t make you look good.

    Those women will never admit to it, and I’ll such a belief until the end. Asian woman are not magically different from white women.

    You just can’t be geeky or dorky w/it.

    Well, that takes the fun out of it. 🙂

    I don’t had many Women w/nails and toes done who never pumped me for cash. Next question?

    Primarily because you’re an alpha and thus don’t elicit such behaviour from women. For beta males in contrast, our only ability to attract women is based on their ability to strip mine our income and wealth.

    The Law of Averages says you can’t just strikeout forever, and ask around here Dave, the fellas will agree w/me.

    I am willing to bet $100 to prove that I can strikeout forever. Women can do better than me.

    At any rate, this is why your dad tried to get you interested in sport

    Actually, I ended up doing track in fourth and fifth grades, but I sucked ass compared to everybody else. I suspect he eventually realized that his son was never going to be as athletic as he was.

    Man the Fuck Up.

    Admitting that you suck and can’t go on delusional quests for women who don’t want you is a part of that, IMHO.

    Ahh. So, since you’ve got it all figured out, why ain’t you putting the Grand Plan into action? What’s up with that?

    Only alphas can get that plan to work.

    Like


  602. Only if you consider watching such a flick w/a seriously Hot Mama and then getting mad pussy afterward is a waste of time, then yup, I would agree.

    Yeah, it was a waste of time.

    And trust me when I tell you, there are indeed Women out there who would find you sexually attractive.

    Yes, those women are incapable of getting alphas, and thus they come up with delusional reasons in an attempt to believe that I’m attractive. Instead, they should just accept their fate and become single women instead of dealing with sub-human males.

    What YOU’RE sexually attracted here is irrelevant, were talking about what Women are sexually attracted to.

    What good are women who aren’t sexually attractive to me?

    Like


  603. Dave Alex,

    Replies as follows:

    O: Because you don’t know what they think, only what YOU think what they think.

    DA: Let’s see how this works. I enter somewhere in the public sphere, numerous women see me and give dirty looks. Thus, the only reasonable conclusion is that women are repulsed by me. None of my other male friends get such looks, nor does my younger brother.

    O: Yea, but WHY are they “repulsed” (so you say) by you, but not your friends or younger brother? How do they look and how do you look-and by that I mean, style of dress, mannerisms, style of talking, etc, et al? See, you gotta take all that into account.

    O: I mean, you really should stop this sort of thing while you’re ahead. It doesn’t make you look good.

    DA: Those women will never admit to it, and I’ll such a belief until the end. Asian woman are not magically different from white women.

    O: Until you at least speak to some Asian Women, you’re just pissing in the wind.

    O: You just can’t be geeky or dorky w/it.

    DA: Well, that takes the fun out of it.

    O: Only if your goal is to be a geek, which, if it is, more power to ya. If, on the other hand your goal is to get laid and possibly get something more from a Woman, you need to at least tonedown the geek/dork thing.

    O: I done had many Women w/nails and toes done who never pumped me for cash. Next question?

    DA: Primarily because you’re an alpha and thus don’t elicit such behaviour from women. For beta males in contrast, our only ability to attract women is based on their ability to strip mine our income and wealth.

    O: Thanks for the compliment, but the truth is, what I do you can do, too. It’s not rocket science or some arcane occultism. Game can be learned. You can learn it. And trust me, you don’t have to “do it” the way you’ve seen others do it, in fact, in order to really be successful w/it you have to do it the way it best and most fits YOU. Which again, ain’t hard at all.

    O: The Law of Averages says you can’t just strikeout forever, and ask around here Dave, the fellas will agree w/me.

    O: I am willing to bet $100 to prove that I can strikeout forever. Women can do better than me.

    O: Heck, Women can “do better” than just about any Man on this board, yours truly included, LOL. If you read the Mystery Method you’d know why. But if you actually would apply that checklist along w/a few other simple things, then I would take you up on that bet.

    DA: At any rate, this is why your dad tried to get you interested in sport

    DA: Actually, I ended up doing track in fourth and fifth grades, but I sucked ass compared to everybody else. I suspect he eventually realized that his son was never going to be as athletic as he was.

    O: Actually I was thinking of something more along contact sport lines: basketball, football, boxing, or baseball even. Track and field is cool, but there’s something about either the team sport experience, or, the martial aspect of boxing, that gives a Male what he needs in his development that in my view mere running does not.

    O: Man the Fuck Up.

    DA: Admitting that you suck and can’t go on delusional quests for women who don’t want you is a part of that, IMHO.

    O: Ok, one, nothing is deluded if you got the tools to make it happen, and two, you need to step to Women who want to be stepped to. It is not as hard as it sounds. Trust me.

    O: Ahh. So, since you’ve got it all figured out, why ain’t you putting the Grand Plan into action? What’s up with that?

    DA: Only alphas can get that plan to work.

    O: Dave Alex, if you had actually read The Game you would have seen a short, balding, geeky, skinny Jewish guy named Neil Strauss transform himself into Style. No way in hell you’re more “Beta” than him.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  604. Yea, but WHY are they “repulsed” (so you say) by you, but not your friends or younger brother?

    They’re repulsed by my existence. I can wear a polo shirt with jeans, t-shirt with beach pants, or a dress shirt with pants, and I still get the dirty looks. My brother can wear the same exact things and he’ll never get dirty looks.

    Just standing around with a messenger bag quietly on a train platform or pushing a cart of groceries in the market should not make me into a target for dirty looks when I haven’t done anything to them.

    Game can be learned.

    Game works for men with some degree of deprecated alpha characteristics. I lack such characteristics. And I want no part of game.

    Heck, Women can “do better” than just about any Man on this board, yours truly included, LOL.

    But a sizable number of the men in this board are alphas presuming that their reports of success are true. Thus, it is hard for women to do better in a number of cases in regards to the group here. In regards to sub-human males like myself, then yes, women can and should do better than me. Hell, I don’t even have the redeeming features of a beta male like a good job…

    Actually I was thinking of something more along contact sport lines

    But I suck at sports. Sucking at sports and joining a team makes for an excellent exercise in public embarassment.

    No way in hell you’re more “Beta” than him.

    Dude, you’re talking to somebody who is too scared to tell his neighbour that he has a bird nest causing damage to his siding. He is certainly less beta than me, and his transformation worked because he has alpha characteristics lurking within him.

    Like


  605. Dave Alex,

    Replies below:

    Obsidian: Yea, but WHY are they “repulsed” (so you say) by you, but not your friends or younger brother?

    Dave Alex: They’re repulsed by my existence. I can wear a polo shirt with jeans, t-shirt with beach pants, or a dress shirt with pants, and I still get the dirty looks. My brother can wear the same exact t