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Relationship Game Week: A Reader’s Journey

The coda to this week’s relationship game posts is a sampling of comments from reader Dave from Hawaii, a guy who kills wild boar with a knife for fun, wherein he discusses his transformation from nagged beta husband of a contemptuous wife to alpha husband of a loving, grateful, gina tingly wife (same woman!), all by assiduously applying to his marriage the core principles and yes, even the specific tactics, of Game. Read and be inspired. You too can improve your love life, inside and outside of marriage.

I got married young, and simply did not understand anything about game, or the benefits of assertive masculinity. I put my wife on a pedestal and spent 7 years or so of a very contentious, walking on egg-shell type of relationship that teetered towards divorce more than a few times.

I discovered PUA/Game sites like this one a few years ago, and after a bit of reading on shit tests, and the subconscious mating desires of females, I began to “run game” on my wife.

The transformation of our relationship is astounding.

Yes, she put on a good 40 lbs. a couple of years after we got married.

Once I learned to game her subconscious, competitive instincts and began to plant suggestions in her mind that I was desirable to other women…she’s gotten motivated and lost the weight, and her affection towards me reverted back to the way she was before got married.

Once I started recognizing her shit tests and began to not just “pass them” but literally blow them up, the passive-aggressive emotionally driven conflict that had been the hallmark of our relationship has all but disappeared.

We don’t fight anymore.

My wife, who used to grumble and complain and tell all her closest friends and family that we had a “difficult relationship with lots of problems that needs working on” now tells everyone she’s happily married without blinking an eye.

Game… it does a body good!

******

I changed our relationship dynamic after learning about game.I stopped always asking her what she wants and started being decisive while playing up the mysterious angle.

Here was a typical scenario back then:

HER: “I’m hungry.”

ME: “What do you want to eat?”

HER: “I don’t know…”

ME: “How about McDonalds?”

HER: “I dunno.”

ME: “How about Taco bell?”

HER: {shrugs}

ME: “KFC? I know you really like the original recipe chicken dinner…”

HER: “well yeah…”

ME: “OK, great, let’s go!”

Drives to the KFC drive-thru.

ME: I’ll have the Zesty Crispy Chicken Wrap…what do you want, honey?”

HER: “I don’t want to eat here.”

ME: “What? I thought you said…”

HER: “I never said I wanted KFC.”

ME: “But…what do you want then? Whatever you want, just let me know, and we’ll go there!”

HER: “It’s too late, you’ve already ordered here.”

ME: “Fine then. So what do you want?”

HER: “Nothing, just take me home. I’ll figure out what I’m going to eat later. {Said in a grouchy tone}.

ME: “Why do you have to be like that?

HER: “Be like what? I never said I wanted KFC!”

ME: “Well what do you want then?”

HER: “Don’t worry about me already! Just get YOUR food and take me home!”

ME: “I’ve asked you how many times to tell me what you want and I’ll take you there! Why do you always have to act like this?”

HER: “Act like what? Nevermind already! It’s obvious you don’t really care about what I want…it’s only about what you want! I didn’t want KFC and yet you’re trying to make like it’s all my fault just because I don’t want to eat here! I never wanted to eat here in the first place!!!!”

ME: “$*%^(YT@#($)(#&!!!!!”

Same scenario, now:

HER: “I’m hungry”

ME: “So am I. Let’s go.”

HER: “Go where?”

ME: “You’ll see.”

HER: “C’mon, tell me…”

ME {Rolling my eyes and turning away from her, getting ready to head out with or without her.}: “Are you gonna sit here and play twenty questions like a spoiled little princess or are you gonna come along and eat with me?”

HER {Now she starts getting ready to go.}: “C’mon…why don’t you tell me…”

At that point, I could take her to a fine-dining restaurant or McDonalds, it doesn’t matter.

What mattered was that I passed her shit test and played the role of the ‘provider.’

I stopped treating my wife like I was an enslaved sycophant willing to do whatever the goddess desired and started treating her like the kid sister with the backhanded compliments, light-hearted teasing, and over-the-top sarcasm to deal with her shit-tests…all within the “frame” of subconsciously reinforcing the notion that I’m attractive to other women.

For another example, I remember one instance where we went to a dinner party, and there was a, beautiful, blond girl that was a friend of a mutual friend, and it was the first time we met her. Her and I hit it off immediately on a conversational level.

After the dinner, on the ride home she started in…

“So tell me, is _______ better looking than me?”

Now the reality is that why yes, she was…and we both knew it. (Turns out, she was a former swimsuit model…)

I was scared to death to admit this to her. I immediately and reflexively lied to her. She became infuriated.

“Why’d you keep talking to her all night long? Where you attracted to her? Don’t lie, I saw you looking at her while you were talking!”

I uncomfortably whimpered “Well, she was sitting directly across from me all night long…”

Needless to say, the conversation continued to escalate in that vain, with her continually getting angrier and angrier as she played the role of hostile interrogator, and I, the hapless idiot husband, caught doing something wrong…trying to squirm out of the pending punishment.

She “dominated” this conversation from the beginning, she set the frame and I unwittingly relinquished my backbone.

Eventually it turned into a full blown argument as I got angry at her for getting angry, because in reality I had done nothing wrong but have the temerity to have conversation with a beautiful woman at the same dinner table.

Contrast that with how I handle a similar incidents now, after I had figured out the underlying dynamics behind why we would always get into those types of fights and arguments…

(generic paraphrasing of a typical situation}

ME: “Of course she was talking to me! Most beautiful women do! That’s EXACTLY why you married me! What lady can resist these?” (Thrn I would just flex my biceps and like I’m the world’s baddest man…all with a smirk on my face.)

HER: She rolls her eyes, chuckles and responds, “Yeah right…no woman would want you if you were the last guy on earth.”

ME: “That’s not what your {name of her best friend} said the other night when she was begging me to kiss her…”

HER: {giggling} “You’re so silly…”

In other words, I learned to turn those “shit tests” into playful banter with a subtle frame of reference (treating her like she’s the “younger sister w/ cooties” instead of the goddess who I’d be most fortunate if only she’d let me kiss her feet), rather than address them at face value. In short, learned to “lead the conversation…i.e. “dominate.”

I used to tell her the typical lies of a cowed and fearful married man that is the ubiquitous caricature of men in today’s feminist warped mass media… “No honey, I ONLY have eyes for you! I promise! I don’t even LOOK at other women!”

In retrospect, I can’t believe I spent YEARS protesting innocence and begging her to not get upset, and never realized that taking that tact ALWAYS resulted in bad feelings and “relationship problems.”

At the same time, I reinforce the notion that I’m desirable to other woman (remember – no one wants to go to the club that is empty…everyone wants to get in to the one with the line around the block.)

And I tell you, I really REALLY felt silly and ridiculous when I first started acting like that whenever the shit tests came up.

Now, it comes to me like a second reflex.

Most betas, when they first learn game and apply it to their dealings with women, are utterly taken aback by how effective it is. A light goes on, and they feel the spiritual alpha surge of a thousand ancient warriors coursing through their veins and guiding them on the path of righteousness. Swing your two-handed skin sword and drink heartily from the scrotal-shaped chalice, Warrior-Poet! Your dominion over the gina tingle is assured.

******

The more I tried to supplicate [my wife]…to plead with her…to beg her “why do you have to be so angry? Can’t we just get along? Is this really that big of a deal? Look, I’m sorry….”

Oh yes, I was ALWAYS apologizing. Oh, and I usually begged for sex.

I would try to use logic and reason to deal with her emotional state. Never worked. Ever.

In other words, I was letting her emotional state dictate my response. I was trying to appease her mood.

After reading up on game, I gained insight into the basic, biological motivations of females. I quickly realized that I was acting beta, and she was no longer attracted to me…making her angrier and angrier by the day because she couldn’t stand the fact that she was married to and living with a spineless, grovelling chump always searching for appeasement and begging for sex. 

Once I was conscious of that dynamic…I became conscientious about how I began acting around her.

For a recent an example of that change of mindset I’m talking about:

Just the other night, I called her to let her know I was coming home so she could time dinner to be ready when I got home.

I was dead tired from my martial arts training that day (I was doing full contact kickboxing training, very rigorous)…and I stopped at my friends house at around 5:00pm to drop something off that I had borrowed from them and have a quick drink before heading home.

After one drink, I lay down on my friend’s couch for a moment…and the next thing I know, it’s 2:30am in the morning.

I drove home, and got into bed. I thought she was asleep…but she promptly said in a real bitchy tone “Where you having fun tonight?!?!”

I simply said “I fell asleep on _____’s couch. I’m tired, good night, dear.”

And promptly rolled over and went to sleep. I don’t even remember what she said to me in response.

The “old” me would have been begging her for forgiveness and apologizing profusely.

She was still upset the next morning…so I let her be upset. She tried to argue with me about it, and I would just shrug, and go start cooking breakfast. She would say something pointed, and I would change the subject.

When she kept pushing me, I just told her straight up – I was dead tired, I lay down for a moment and literally passed out form exhaustion. What is their to apologize for? I’m going to eat breakfast now and enjoy the beautiful morning…care to join me?”

She may have grumbled a bit more, but in the end, we ended up having a nice breakfast, and the topic was dead…other than the occasional, off-hand joke from her about how “You don’t come home anymore,” over the next few days…to which I would either ignore it, change the subject or “agree and amplify” to the point of absurdity.

“Of course dear, don’t you know us pimp daddies have a lot of hoes that take up all our time!”

The old, beta me would have been banished to the couch, subjected to a few days of silent treatment and begging for her forgiveness…only making it worse and worse the more I would grovel and beg.

Whenever there is a marital fight, no man should ever choose to take the couch. That way is the way of the beta. You either sleep in your own goddamned bed and let smoke come out of her ears all night as you snore loudly next to her, or she chooses to take the couch.

******

Yeah, I’m positive you can use “Jerk” game in a LTR – but in my personal case, I use it sparingly.

One time I made her late for a flight to Vegas because we were at a friend’s party. She started SCREAMING at me in the car, because it really was my fault that she missed her flight to go visit her family. She went ballistic. Hysterical. Screaming and crying, because she wasn’t going to get there in time for her Mother’s birthday.

The one and only time I ever screamed back at her. I looked right at her and screamed “SHUT THE FUCK UP! IT’S HAPPENED! YELLING AND SCREAMING IS NOT GOING TO GET YOU ON THAT PLANE! IT’S FUCKING OVER!

That was the one and only time I think I have ever truly scared my wife. She jumped into the back seat of the car when I yelled at her. She told me later that she thought I was going to hit her ’cause I looked so mad. In 12 years, that’s gotta be the only time I ever let my anger out like that. I’m generally very low-key and mellow…I got a long fuse.

It’s very interesting to note after the long, quiet ride home…she actually got turned on by my little show of aggression. heh.

This comment Rihanna-approved.

******

[W]hat you need to focus on, WHATEVER you do, is to maintain frame.

Whether you do nice things for your woman or you act like a jerk, neither will kill her attraction for you in and of itself.

Just make sure that whatever you do, you do not do it in a beta, supplicating manner.

You want to boil down “game” into one phrase, it’s DON’T BE BETA. Don’t put her on the pedestal. Adopt the mentality that you are atop her pedestal, and act accordingly.

Example:

Honey, would you like me to give you a massage? I know you’re sore form your hard day! Let me make you feel better…

That would be a typical offer praised to the high heavens by 99% of all women hearing about such a question. Hearing such a story will elicit “wow, that’s so SWEET! Your so lucky to have such a great husband!”

But in reality…that’s beta.

It’s begging and pleading to please your wife. In essence, you’re asking her permission to do her a favor.

Half the time, she’ll flat out turn the offer down, even if she DOES want a massage in the worst way…because as sore as her muscles are, embedded deep in her id is the contempt for the very idea of a beta putting his hands on her naked body.

Doing the same thing, but in a non-Beta manner – cocky/arrogant style – “Get over here and take your clothes off, I’m tired of hearing you groan about your sore muscles.”

or going for the subtle expression of having higher social status… “Well than you better thank your lucky stars you married an expert masseuse…”

In either case, you’ve done the “nice husband thing.” But the frame you keep to do the “nice” thing is what is truly going to either maintain her attraction for you or kill it.

Doing something beta during a pickup? You can eject, and start all over again on your next approach.

Acting beta when married? You are starting the long, slow march towards divorce court hell…

Creeping marital betatude isn’t an on/off switch; it’s a viral agent that slowly, but inexorably, sickens your wife until she wants to get as far away from you as possible. Usually into the arms of a man who isn’t infected. And with half your money. So if you’re gonna get married (and don’t say I didn’t warn you), you had better have a handle on women’s psychological natures. And a good pre-nup.

******

I had no clue how badly I was failing shit tests, and why I was always getting into passive-aggressive conflicts. I thought shit tests were logical inquiries based on linear thinking.

Upon reading the Agree & Amplify approach to shit tests, now-defunct PUA blog “The Reality Method,” I thought long and hard about how many times I had encountered such tests and failed them miserably.

The first time I tried A&A, when she asked me if I had a mistress, and I answered that no, I had 4 of them, and I was getting worn out trying to keep them all plus herself satisfied. I was holding my breath trying to see what her reaction would be….she giggled and said “you’re so delusional!” To which I than A&A again…”Damn straight, how else do you think I’ve stayed married to you all these years?” The conversation turned into playful teasing, ending with me spanking her ass and starting to playfully roughhouse.

Inside, I felt like I had just discovered the holy grail. I spent YEARS in the “What do you mean you think I have a mistress? Why would you think that? You know you’re the only women for me!”

The next time I got another shit test from her, I was more than ready for it:

Do I look fat in this dress?”

The shit test is really in effect, beta entrapment.

The absurdity of the shit test is that women aren’t consciously aware they are doing them. Which makes them all the more dangerous.

******

– When women get together, especially in mixed company, they will often speak of their men as if they were little children. Sometimes our friends will say things to my wife like “he better behave or you’re gonna ground him!” or “he better watch out or he’s gonna get in trouble with you” or some sort variation of this theme that assumes she’s the authority and you answer to her.

Whenever I encounter that, I never let that commentary stand unchallenged. I respond, in a cocky/funny manner – ‘yeah right, she better watch out or I’LL be the one doing the grounding!” To which my wife will usually sass back, to which I’ll than turn it into a bit of sexual innuendo – “…not only will I ground you, I’ll give you the spanking you deserve…and we know what happens when I spank you…”  Re-framing the conversation to hint at sexual intimacy quickly changes the tone of the conversation and the theme of relational authority gets forgotten by the other women pretty quickly. They typically respond to that sort of thing with “Ew…that’s TMI! Keep that stuff to yourselves!” or “Get a room you two!” Than everyone will laugh, and you can then change the subject to one of your choosing.

One of the biggest sources of discontent in a LTR can and will come from the influence of your woman’s peers. You have to learn how to display your dominance not just to her, but in front of her peers as well. This sort of behavior actually sparks her attraction.

Use PDA very sparingly. I never kiss my woman in front of people, and I rarely hold her hand or cuddle or snuggle or any of that other intimacy behaviors in front of other people…even good friends we are absolutely comfortable with. When you do something, like grabbing her and making her sit on your lap when you’re at a party, she will really appreciate your gesture of affection and amp her attraction for you…but only if you rarely give her the gift of PDA. I just did that the other night at a party. When I drew her to my lap, she gave me those eyes…the same eyes she gave me when we first started dating 14 years ago. My public display of affection that night turned into a very private display by her later on that night…

Same goes for things like flowers, candy and other so-called “romantic” little gifts that often are what society says are the correct ways for men to show their women they love them. While in the new, courting phase, it won’t backfire on you if you give them frequently…constantly buying her flowers, teddy bears, candy etc. will lose it’s value for inspiring her attraction once you are in a LTR.

– The most important LTR advice I think I can add, is this: if and when you know you did wrong, that she does in fact deserve an apology, you MUST learn to apologize with sincerity without projecting the attitude that you are sorry.

That may sound confusing at first, but what I mean is that while you are apologizing for something, you MUST maintain a state of social dominance. You do not beg or plead for forgiveness. You do not apologize more than once…ever. If you do apologize, you say it once, with a full detailed explanation of why you know you did wrong, that you understand why your behavior/actions upset her, than you say your apology, and then THAT IS IT. Do NOT try and “make it up” in explicit terms. Do not bow down to her demands. If she says “you better get me some flowers for this one,” that’s the one sure guarantee that you are NOT going to give her flowers. 

Don’t even ask for forgiveness. Act as if your apology is all there is to say about it, you can forgive me or not.

That last point was the hardest one for me to learn at first. I cannot tell you how different it is now when we have a fight, and I consciously maintain the frame of not becoming a supplicant begging for her forgiveness.

Our arguments can be white hot and aggressive, but if I maintain my dominant mentality, these conflicts end quickly and almost always result in the best kind of LTR sex…”makeup” sex.

I used to think that hot makeup sex was a myth. [Editor: I think it’s more accurate to call it “after-fight sex” since it’s the fighting, not the making up, that coaxes gina tingles.] Now I know the truth – makeup sex only happens if your wife respects you, and lusts you for your dominance. Even if you’re wrong, and you apologized and admitted you were wrong…if you do it right and maintain your dominant status, her anger will eventually fade, but her attraction will increase. Think of fighting and arguing with your woman as the ultimate LTR shit test.

If you are begging, simpering, cowed beta that always begs for forgiveness and pleads with her to not get mad at you or to just “forget it,” the tension will eventually blow over…but her subconscious satisfaction with your beta demeanor will kill any chance of that hot makeup sex, and start to build up in her and affect all other areas of your relationship.

When in doubt, better to err on the side of too much asshole than too little asshole. Or: If you can’t learn the art of apologizing like an alpha, resort to Plan B: Deny, deny, deny. And then accuse her of being a distrustful bitch.

******

When I first started changing my behavior, I had to consciously think of everything I said and did. It was difficult at first.

But the more you consciously do these things, and the more you see how it works positively in your relationship, the easier it gets.

When I first began “gaming” her, I was still afraid of her emotional state…I found game a means of not bringing out her anger or disappointment.

Now, however, I’ve truly developed the mindset of having NO fear of my woman’s emotional state.

While I don’t disagree at all with Epoxytocin’s statement:

“If you handle it correctly, it shouldn’t “start an argument”.

My addendum to that is….

So what if it does start an argument? Are you afraid to argue with her? Why are you afraid of her emotional state?

Once I realized this mindset, and internalized it, everything started to become second nature.

As a beta-ized husband, I lived in constant fear of upsetting her…fear of her dissaproval…fear of her tears. I used to think of lies to tell her about things that were not even wrong, just to try and avoid making her mad with me.
This was when we were at our worst.

At the beach, back in the “beta” days:

HER: “I see you looking at that chic in the G-string!”

ME: “I was not! Honestly honey, I only have eyes for you!”

We both know I was lying…and she would get upset, and not speak to me and we’d end up getting into an argument that ruined the entire day. Ironic isn’t it…by lying to her to try and avoid conflict, I actually made it much worse.

Now?

HER: “I see you looking at her!”

ME: “She’s hot, isn’t she?”

Well played, Dave from Hawaii, well played.

685 Responses

  1. Looooooved reading the collection of Dave from Hawaii’s most interesting comments!

    Sounds like his wife liked to (in girlspeak) create drama? Like if she didn’t like KFC why didn’t she just say hey, wait, why are we going to KFC. Now that’s the boss man of the house she knows better🙂 And how fun… it sounds like he makes the relationship fun, not like a serious marital duty thing.

    I wish I could show this post to some guys…lol. (But it would probably seem like sh*ttest or emasculating loll.) This nugget of wisdom is so good:

    “I stopped treating my wife like I was an enslaved sycophant willing to do whatever the goddess desired and started treating her like the kid sister with the backhanded compliments, light-hearted teasing, and over-the-top sarcasm”

    If a guy’s wife acts like she’s a princess, then he needs to act like a king🙂 Women want men to rule them, protect them, guide them, tell them what to do… it’s just the natural order.

    Like


  2. Good work Dave. Hopefully some emasculated betas can derive inspiration from your journey. I personally feel that marriage is best avoided. Just do not have the patience to deal with constant shittests from the same woman. The pussy gets boring after a while anyway. Better to have a harem.

    Like


  3. BIRTHDAY SEX

    BIRTHDAY SEX

    Like


  4. My marriage has never been bad in the way Dave described his. In fact, it has always been pretty damned good. But I can say that learning game through the years (I picked up 80% naturally, through interactions with my wife and other women, and since I discovered this blog last November, I have topped things off) has made my marriage unusually good, the kind of marriage that other people envy.

    Like


  5. What a nice little wrap up to a solid weak of relationship posts.

    Like


  6. on August 14, 2009 at 1:13 pm snatch magnet

    This post is probably the best example of Game that I’ve read because it demonstrates the reality that Game is not merely a list of tricks designed to con a woman into giving up the cooch. More than anything its a mindset.
    My own short marriage many years ago was one giant shit test after another. After five years of her trying to turn me into some grovelling chump she realized I wasn’t ever going to play that game and walked, trying to take half my shit with her. I essentially had to go to ground and off the grid to keep what little assets I had, but that’s another story.
    A couple years after the divorce was final I received a letter from the ex, which I assumed was more bs about shit I ‘owed’ her. Surprisingly, it was what amounted to an apology for trying to control everything about me and attempting to get me to bend to her will. I didn’t answer but felt affirmed that I had been in the right all along.
    Now, I hear she is married to a balding, paunchy, beta chump who bends to her every whim. Not surprising at all.

    Like


  7. I’m going to get married just so I can run game 24/7.

    Like


  8. This reminds me of the War of the Roses episode on the guy who got his ex’s number at his high school reunion.

    Current GF: Why did you get her number?
    Alpha: Did you see the way she took care of her self? Holy shit. She is packing a killer ass.

    Nothing like checking out other girls and complimenting them to destroy your girl’s self esteem.

    Like


  9. on August 14, 2009 at 1:22 pm Seeking Alpha

    I’m going to get married just so I can run game 24/7.

    It’s true. It’s all the fun of gaming without the initial problems with approach or worrying about whether or not she’s interested.

    Like


  10. my problem with all this is,

    that’s very nice as long as you don’t actually cheat on her.
    But i can’t get myself to be loyal for more than 1 year.
    I do handle shit tests well, but after some time they know I’m chasing other women.

    Now tell me how to deal with that

    Like


  11. Dave from Hawaii is my hero. It is great to see such tips all together in one place. I am trying to turn my marriage around and it is very hard.

    Like


  12. SM,
    That was a powerful story you just told, man. Powerful. And I see you’ve done what I’ve advised Men here to do if and when they find themselves on the receiving end of some shameful shit-go off the grid. Make it as hard as possible for the you know what to get ANYTHING from you-she forfeited that when she went out like a chump.

    I honestly believe that no honest guy would turn a once trusted mate out on the street-in fact, my personal experience has been that its the Women, when they own the home, are almost always the ones who are quick to toss their mates out on the block. And usually, most good guys have no problem seeing to it that their ex gets a reasonable settlement.

    But if and when girlfriend goes rogue, that’s when I say all bets are OFF-and a Man’s got err right under the Sun to protect himself. Me personally, I’d rather burn the whole “kingdom” down and sit in the joint before I let an ungrateful, spiteful, vicious and downright mean beeyotch get one thin dime outta me. And when more Men learn to come at it this way, and the way you have Snatch, more Women will get a clue and come correct.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  13. I don’t know if I would characterize this as “Game”. I’d just say he got some balls.

    I see Game as a conscious effort and the stuff Dave describes is really just a personality change. He isn’t using pick-up games, he’s just telling her the damn truth and not acquiescing to her bullshit.

    When a beautiful woman flirts with him, he tells the damn truth. That’s not Game, it’s having balls. When she bitches and moans about some trivial mistake he made, he tells her to stop bitching and moaning about the trivial mistake he made.

    What he’s doing isn’t some process that takes years to master. I think that constantly trying to be an alpha male would be quite exhausting for a beta. But to act like Dave does, to stand up for yourself and not be a little bitch, that’s rather easy. It’s about asserting yourself and not taking her shit.

    I’ll defer to more knowledgeable PUA’s here, but that’s how I see it.

    Like


  14. “I’m going to get married just so I can run game 24/7.”

    LOL! Well played with sarcasm.

    Dave from Hawaii needs to game and fuck chicks other than his wife. Fucking different vagina makes a man radiate a testosterone/alpha glow that simply “gaming” one’s wife does not. Dave’s wife will love him more for it and her ‘gina will tingle.

    Like


  15. @spandrell

    Years into my marriage, I just came out and told my wife that I’d be porking other chicks on occasion. It turns out that she had assumed I had already been doing so. She’s not exactly in love with the idea, but she knows I’m gonna do it anyhow, and is only afraid that I’ll actually fall in love with another (younger) woman. The brutal honesty makes the marriage stronger, and the sex hotter.

    Like


  16. “So tell me, is _______ better looking than me?”

    So what’s the best answer to a question like that?

    Like


  17. @Backdoor Man

    how many years?
    I guess its different when you’re actually married, i.e. you ain’t gonna dump her easily. But in a normal LTR they just freak out. I got one actually attempting suicide.
    I just slapped the shit out of her and fucked the other girl anyway though. She eventually stopped asking after that.

    Like


  18. I remember when Dave from Hawaii made that first “game transforming” post where he accredited his new-found success in the relationship with his wife to game.

    I’m astounded by this collection, I think relationship game is the most important aspect of an aspiring PUA.

    You can apply relationship game techniques to any woman who you have known for a while, and they will look at you in a different light.

    All of the sudden, you make their ginas tingle and they start to feel that powerful, addictive emotion of attraction for you, and they can’t explain why!

    Like


  19. “Dave from Hawaii is my hero. It is great to see such tips all together in one place. I am trying to turn my marriage around and it is very hard.”

    WTF is “turning your marriage around”? Of course it’s damn hard to turn a marriage around — it’s like turning a sinking ship around. It’s easier to move on and bang different ‘gina.

    Any time a guy feels the need to this “turning around” bullshit, his whore of a wife has already fucked the local football team.

    Like


  20. We both know I was lying…and she would get upset, and not speak to me…..

    When does lying actually make things better? It doesn’t. Only cowards lie and cowards get abused by everyone. There may be more creative ways of telling the truth, but the bottom line is; don’t lie.

    Like


  21. @spandrell

    I told her almost 10 years into the marriage. It helps that she is from South America, she is pretty rational in these matters, and we have a rock-solid marriage. I couldn’t pull it off from a position of weakness.

    Like


  22. ” “So tell me, is _______ better looking than me?”

    So what’s the best answer to a question like that?”

    No, she isn’t… her pussy lips are too asymmetrical.

    Like


  23. @J: answers to that are basically the same as “fat in this dress” questions.

    a) “[She doesn’t have/the dress brings out] your inner beauty”
    b) “Don’t worry about [the dress/her looks]”

    Like


  24. “Years into my marriage, I just came out and told my wife that I’d be porking other chicks on occasion. It turns out that she had assumed I had already been doing so. She’s not exactly in love with the idea, but she knows I’m gonna do it anyhow, and is only afraid that I’ll actually fall in love with another (younger) woman. The brutal honesty makes the marriage stronger, and the sex hotter.”

    BIG mistake.

    Any woman who’s in love with you already assumes you fuck other chicks. Rubbing their face in it is bad taste & implies you don’t understand how women operate.

    Women universally operate on the “don’t ask don’t tell / please lie to me / tell me anything remotely plausible as long as it feels good” principle.

    Like


  25. My guy once told me, “I don’t want to be with a girl that I have to game.” He studied game and is smart and charismatic enough to use it, though.

    OneSTDV, I agree. It’s more like a consciousness shift and gaining more esteem in one’s self, which is a deep and transformative personal change.

    Among PUAs it is the so-called “inner game,” but this is called different things in different circles. Among artists and writers it’s called “finding your voice.” Among managerial types it’s called “confidence building.” And yes, among most people it’s known as “don’t be a wuss.”

    I do think that civilized society likes for men to be wusses because they are easier to control. If women are “strong” and “assertive” they do not cause much problems for the status quo. But if men started taking power and control, the current establishment has reason to actually fear.

    If more strong men realized how screwed they have been by the government (not just re: alimony, please) and how much they’ve been flat out lied to, they might actually get something done. The case now though is that most of the macho men are conservatives and most of the feminized men are liberals. This is intentional in my opinion. It is so that the strong men do not question existing conditions and will attempt to preserve it — that is, they let themselves keep getting screwed by the very elite, so they can have a piece of the pie.

    Like


  26. on August 14, 2009 at 1:55 pm snatch magnet

    O
    I’m in total agreement that some women will kick a mate they fall ‘out’ of love with to the curb in a heartbeat. In my own case what made it worse was that the ex worked in the banking industry. The day she walked I was for all purposes broke. 25k inheritance I received from a grandparent that passed, gone. Savings, gone. Checking, she graciously left $5. I essentially lived on a cash and carry basis for two years. Worked under the table, and kept my cash in a strong box. The story goes on but really isn’t necessary. In retrospect that was my fault for being too trusting and not paying attention.
    It probably sounds foolish, but I’m not anti-marriage at all. Its obvious, as Dave shows, that it can work with the correct mindset. My parents have been married 45 years. Both sets of grandparents were married 60+yrs. But for me its been burn me once, shame on you. I’m not sure I’ll ever want to give someone else the chance to burn me like that again.

    Like


  27. Hopey wrote:

    “I don’t want to be with a girl that I have to game.”

    Thanks. I’m actually going to use that on an Asian girl I know in DC.

    Like


  28. Mine was Japanese, didn’t help anyway, heh.

    But I guess it’s no easy feat. Fuck marriage then.

    Like


  29. Hey Snatch,

    You should kill your ex.

    Where I work, stealing that much gets you killed. Just because the law supports the bitch doesn’t make it just.

    Like


  30. This brings up a question: How does a girl who truly cares for her man coax out the alpha in him? Say this guy straddles the fence, on the one hand offering massages regularly but on the other hand will sit down next to her, smile, and wipe his nose with the clean sock she was about to put on. It’s tough being a girl, wanting all the warm perks of the kindnesses without the cruel apathy they instill.

    Like


  31. Study: Higher-educated real men less likely to seek preventive health care than blue-collar real men

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/health/research/18patt.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

    Like


  32. Be a wimp and live longer, I guess, Anon?

    Like


  33. on August 14, 2009 at 2:08 pm snatch magnet

    RJS,
    It was theft. There’s no better way to describe it and believe me when I say that I plotted many ways to put her in the ground. But looking at it now, my life turned out pretty good without her. I’ve done things that I never would have had the chance to if we had stayed together, and for the most part did them on my own terms.

    Like


  34. Cumstaine:
    “I sincerely feel really sorry for some of you.”

    —Said, the classless, trashy, wrinkly ex-stripper coke whore whose own husband abandoned her and the child that isn’t his.

    Like


  35. “Be a NY Times reader and live longer, I guess, Anon?”
    —Same thing, novaseeker.

    Like


  36. I’m glad Dave from Hawaii and his wife are happy now and they were able to stay together because he applied ‘game’.
    But he only has to try so hard to stand up to her because his wife is an obnoxious person. Ugh. Anyone who acts like that should be kicked to the curb.

    I’m an agreeable person who controls her emotions. Hence our relationship goes smoothly with little ‘game’ and we argue or fight maybe twice a year. Not to say I don’t see some ‘alpha-ness’ in in my BF’s behavior – it comes naturally, and I like it. My father was a fawning romantic, and I knew I didn’t want an asskisser like him since I was 6.

    For example, a few of the above scenarios re-played in my house:

    Me: I’m hungry.
    Him: Me too. Where do you want to go?
    Me: I don’t care. [He’s the picky one, I’ll eat anything.]
    Him: Pick something.
    Me: Cheesecake Factory?
    Him: All right. *we go eat*

    Him: *watching hot girl walk by*
    Me: *watching hot girl walk by*

    Him: *makes me miss flight to Vegas*
    Me: Damn!
    Him: Sorry. We’ll make it work. [We do.]
    Me: I know sweetie.

    Him: *leaves at 8 pm and doesn’t come home until 2 am when he said he’d be back at 11*
    Me: *waking up, gives him a kiss* Hi, honey. I was worried you were in a car accident!

    Me: *walking by*
    Him: That makes your ass look flat.
    Me: I agree.. but it was free! [I know how I my body looks – pretty damn good. I rarely ask for his opinion on my clothes, but he offers it freely and honestly.]

    Him: You ALWAYS leave the cap loose on the juice.
    Me: I’m sorry. I don’t do it on purpose. [End of discussion.]

    Me: Button your shirt, it looks silly flapping open like that.
    Him: Okay. [End of discussion.]

    Like


  37. newage rope-a-hope:
    My guy once told me, “I don’t want to be with a girl that I have to game.”

    then “your guy” (is he the one who isn’t lying to you this week about his alphaness?) will be severely limiting himself to just a tiny handful of outlier women.
    (i’d say including you, but you’ve demonstrated by your actions that amoral game works on you when your ex-hubby lied constantly to you and ran away with your heart in the process.)

    He studied game and is smart and charismatic enough to use it, though.

    how would you know if he never used it on you?

    Like


  38. Alpha husband = oxymoron.

    Married men are nothing more than wimps in beta serfdom.

    Sure you may pass your wife’s shit tests with flying colors. You may not be a doormat. So what? That’s nothing to brag about. You’re still stuck with one (rapidly deteriorating) pussy that you cannot discard without dire consequences to yourself.

    If you were a true alpha, you would not have married in the first place. You would not have proposed, signed the contract or let her live with you under the same roof.

    Like


  39. i dont want dat hoe i want dat bitch!

    Like


  40. Women want you to be in-charge.

    Too bad. They should grow up and take charge of their own lives.

    [editor: and from his mighty underground masturbatorium, the troll awakened, wearing his crusted wank-wheedled seed like a suit of pearl-colored (sperm is racist!) armor.]

    most women act like dave’s wife. it’s standard operating procedure for the vaj set.

    Then maybe we should expose said behaviour and get women to stop acting in this manner.

    [you may as well try to get the earth to stop rotating.]

    Like


  41. In other news research says single women prefer married men:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1206462/The-Angelina-Jolie-effect-single-women-chase-married-men.html

    Stupefyingly obvious, I know…

    Like


  42. You’re still stuck with one (rapidly deteriorating) pussy that you cannot discard without dire consequences to yourself.

    Hehe, the secret advantage to porn. There’s always a new girl who looks great. In contrast, that woman who sleeps in the bed next to you will age to the point where a bottle of Viagra is useless.

    Him: Me too. Where do you want to go?
    Me: I don’t care. [He’s the picky one, I’ll eat anything.]

    That’s the problem that I’ve had with my female friends. I’m the anti-social one, so they’re a bit more knowledgeable about where to eat and what to do than me, and thus, I end up shifting the decision making to them.

    Like


  43. Great post. I have no specific desire to get married, but Dave’s stories of alpha marriage make me feel slightly less pessimistic about the institution.

    The “Do I look fat in this dress?” line reminds me of an episode of Cheers I watched at an impressionable age, where future fattie Kirstie Alley asks Sam Malone that exact question. He thinks for a second, makes her spin around so he can see her ass, and then casually says “Good idea, blame it on the dress.”

    Like


  44. “Relationships are merely a continuation of pickup by other means. “

    Almost. But not quite.

    In order to pick a woman up (initial sex), you merely need to have higher value than the other options (available men).

    BUT, in order to have her stay on your side (happily and faithfully), you will need to up that initial value substantially since the commitment lowered your social status from alpha to beta.

    So, ironically, it is easier to have a harem than to be in a committed relationship (with regard to the amount of work you put in to game the women).

    Many men say they “just” want a monogamous relationship. what they don’t realize is that this is the hardest option:

    If you lack the skills, you will fail (think: maternal frigidity, paternity theft, divorce etc).

    If you have some skills, you can have more sex than most married men but you still might fail (think: the initial successes of PUAs; many of them “settle” after a series of flings, just to end up being dumped after a short time)

    If you seriously prefer the model of idealized mutual (sexually) faithful monogamy, you will need to be able to master initial attraction AND long term attraction WITHOUT the help of the social proof of the other girls in your harem.

    So much about “just” having a girl friend…

    [editor: interesting angle. there is some truth to the statement that the act of commiting to a woman, by itself, is an act of betatization. however, it can be argued that the love that slowly consumes a woman for her lover in an LTR serves as counterweight against the DLV of commitment. that is, a woman in love is likely to overlook the inherent betaness of monogamy, at least until the seven year itch.]

    Like


  45. Nobel Prize in Pussy

    heh, seconded. But if the Oslo/Stockholm betas remain in charge of the Nobel awards, the likely winner will be Mr. Jessica Valenti, not our Gracious Host.

    Like


  46. on August 14, 2009 at 2:53 pm Ferdinand Bardamu

    Dave in Hawaii is truly an inspiration. He should be held up as an example for all men.

    OneSTDV:

    “I don’t know if I would characterize this as “Game”. I’d just say he got some balls.

    I see Game as a conscious effort and the stuff Dave describes is really just a personality change. He isn’t using pick-up games, he’s just telling her the damn truth and not acquiescing to her bullshit.

    When a beautiful woman flirts with him, he tells the damn truth. That’s not Game, it’s having balls. When she bitches and moans about some trivial mistake he made, he tells her to stop bitching and moaning about the trivial mistake he made.”

    Part of Game is growing balls if you don’t have already.

    Like


  47. how would you know if he never used it on you?

    Oh he’s used it on me. We both were circling around each other doing the “aloof” thing from the beginning, cautious but curious about each other. It was a good dance.

    [editor: iow, he ran game on you and it worked. that’ll be all for now.]

    He did limit himself to the outliers because he’s an outlier. He resigned himself to a life of being single because he was convinced no woman could ever connect with him on the level he needed. In some ways, he was sort of a more upbeat and social Tokyo, but still deeply convinced that the woman he wants does not exist.

    Then again, I was pretty sure a guy like him didn’t exist either, until I met him.

    you’ve demonstrated by your actions that amoral game works on you when your ex-hubby lied constantly to you and ran away with your heart in the process.

    I don’t deny that. The difference between my ex and the guy I’m with is this: one is mired in darkness, the other overcame darkness. It sounds all retarded, I know. But an example: my ex got me to try pot, and I hated it. He was also surrounded by guy buddies that tried to get him to smoke pot, and he also hated it.

    We were both surrounded by people for whom chaos, negativity, lying, being angry and lashing out at other people are accepted as the norm. We both broke out of that. When we met, he was out of touch with his old buddies for a few years, and I was moved out for a few months. He showed me that one’s outlook doesn’t have to be all dark and depressing.

    You remember when I was all pessimistic and resigned? When I first moved out I seriously thought no man was ever going to see me as anything but a pump and dump, and that I would never find love again, and I pitied the hell out of myself. He changed that by taking charge of his own life, challenging himself, spending time outside the country and just taking life head on. He motivated me to become more hopeful.

    So, you can call that “good game,” or maybe it’s just he’s a freaking awesome and fantastic guy. The honest to goodness truth: I have never yelled at him. Our one and only fight was about money and not spending enough time together, and neither of us yelled.

    A few weeks ago, we were on a car trip, and ran out of gas in the middle of the desert highway in 100+ degree heat. We were both just calm and walked out to get to the gas station, which was at least several miles away.

    Neither of us bitched at the other person. Neither of us got angry. Neither of us was upset, and we both looked at the situation from a positive way. It was his fault, but we both knew it and neither needed to voice it. We also talked about the circumstances and commiserated about that.

    He was taking me to see the salt flats, and then on a whim he decided to take me across the border to Nevada and to a casino, because I’d never been inside one. We were both commenting on how the inside of a casino confuses you and makes you lose track of things — design by purpose. So, after we get out, he forgot to fill up the tank.

    After about 10 minutes of walking, we got picked up after a while by a truck driver and his wife. They had a little yappy dog, a TV, a portable fridge and a bunch of random household stuff in their truck. It was actually quite roomy. They were super nice to us. They took us to the gas station, made sure we filled up a tank, and were trying to call the other truck drivers to pick us up on the way back.

    If that had been my ex? No way. He would have been complaining about how there was no cell phone reception, and being very negative and pissy, and generally making things worse. On the way back it was a retired cop who picked us up. My ex loathed cops so much he refused to hang out with me and my friend Jenny, whose husband is a campus cop. They just break up frat parties! But that didn’t matter to him. A cop was a cop and was to be despised.

    My guy? Led in conversations with the ex-cop and the trucker family. Meanwhile I sat there smiling and thinking how great he is. Afterwards we talked about how fun that all was, how neither of us had ridden in a huge truck before, and how because we’re a couple, we were the least intimidating types to be picked up. If it had been him alone, people probably would not have stopped.

    He also mentioned that the ex-cop probably stopped because of that, too. Then when we got back to the car with the gas can, a state highway patrol officer had stopped. My guy chatted with the officer for a while, and I couldn’t help but think how well and politely he handled the situation, and being still upbeat and joking after carrying a big heavy thing in the scorching desert heat.

    It turned out to be a cool adventure, and we both have some great memories from it. That’s how it is when you meet the rare soul who is your counterpart, when things are right and loving and wonderful. The world can fall apart, and it’s still alright.

    Like


  48. wow, good aggregation. Should have saved that for the book, sucka.

    Although, now I know why I’ve had stalkers in my youth…relationships with someone below your status leads to unintentional game…leading to…more attraction.

    Like


  49. spunk has the correct answer

    Like


  50. [you may as well try to get the earth to stop rotating.]

    If we can go to the moon and come back safely, then we can get women to stop shit testing. If we can’t, then the best solution is just to stop having sex with women. Women who shit test like children don’t deserve to have an adult act like sex.

    Like


  51. Spunk – You are sadly in error (perhaps you’re not looking at the big picture).

    Married is often a beta move, but not necessarily. Such as those who want children of our own.

    Run Game on a quality young woman from a weathly family (and who has an attractive biological mother). Marry her. Maintain the Game routine.

    Yes, you lose the variety. But you also gain a lot too.

    Like


  52. Funny,this post.A married beta neighbor of mine is being put through his paces by his wife,even as we speak.She badmouths him behind his back,has recently lost some weight, (doesnt look too bad) dresses very sexy of a sudden,and has become quite a flirt into the bargain.Just yesterday I saw beta-boy showing her a new Mercedes it looks he’s planning to buy her.(He just bought himself a new car recently).I’m thinking of directing him to this site.

    Like


  53. Hands down best entry on the site.

    Like


  54. @ANON

    My wife caught me with another woman and confronted me. I wasn’t having an affair, but I took the opportunity to let her know that I would indeed be sleeping with other women, and that she’d have to be cool with it. It turns out she is. I didn’t intend to bring it up with her, and I don’t rub it in her face, but in our relationship, truth is a powerful glue. Honesty and transparency can be just as strong as game.

    Like


  55. KM

    Run Game on a quality young woman from a weathly family (and who has an attractive biological mother). Marry her. Maintain the Game routine.

    Yes, you lose the variety. But you also gain a lot too.

    That’s a lifestyle choice that will change who you are as a person. If that’s the person you want to be, cool. I admire my father and his side of the family, including my cousins, in how they have done that. Well, no – what am I saying. My dad married a bitch first time around, and most of my extended family got divorced. Anyway…

    Point was supposed to be that being married lowers a mans testosterone. That’s neither good nor bad, but it changes a person.

    I don’t like who I am when my testosterone is low. I leave locations because of that. Leave girls because of that. It’s a little death to me to settle down and become low T.

    Men are like zebra fish. Look it up – zebra fish physically and actively change depending on their sex hormones. Men do as well. Being married is a choice to change your physicality and mentality.

    Not for me. No way, no how.

    Like


  56. Backdoor Man – ” I took the opportunity to let her know that I would indeed be sleeping with other women, and that she’d have to be cool with it. It turns out she is. I didn’t intend to bring it up with her, and I don’t rub it in her face, but in our relationship, truth is a powerful glue.”

    Yeah, there are cases like that. But there’s a hell of a lot at stake to be unnecessarily rolling the dice on that theory just for the sake of being honest.

    I prefer the “What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” philosophy.

    Like


  57. Whooa, I don’t feel so good. Derp!

    Like


  58. @Riff Dog

    You could call it a roll of the dice, but I prefer to think of it as something that needed to be done. I just told her what the new rules were, and she could decide to stay or leave. Likewise, when she said she was going to have children “with me or without me,” I pointed to the door and told her to make up her mind. In both cases, she melted and became happier than ever.

    Like


  59. “most women act like dave’s wife. it’s standard operating procedure for the vaj set. only on internet comment boards do women get to imagine they would never act that way.”

    I am sure I am not imagining that I very, very rarely act like this (did a few dumb things when I was a depressed, insecure teenager in the beginning of our relationship). BF agrees – that’s why he’s committed to me.. usually he breaks up with girls after a year when they started to drive him nuts with this sort of nonsense (or, cheating).

    But I have to admit I see all the women I know do it every day. My mom was a big offender growing up. It disgusts me.

    Women can act like childish assholes, and of course men have their faults, and the only thing that will keep them happy is calculated manipulation. The important thing is that people are happy and attracted to each other, and if game helps that I guess it’s a great thing.

    I have to get over the fact that human nature is so foul, and just enjoy the fact that my personality and moral code looks so good in comparison and I found someone it’s not wasted on.

    Like


  60. Solid. 100% solid.

    Like


  61. this is a clip-post… one of the few that i had read most of already.

    so kudos to DFH for the de-facto guest post … and for generally being awesome. for sharing his experiences, and views, with all of us so generously and in such detail over the past year or two. you are da bomb.

    if i ever pass through honolulu (a plausible possibility at some point in the future), i hope you’ll let me buy you a drink or two.

    Like


  62. @km

    Breeding is overrated. Your non-contribution to the gene pool of future generations will not edge the human species closer to extinction the slightest bit.

    The poor people, the stupid people and the religious people will more than make up for the loss.

    If you really want companionship with a living creature, get a dog. Keep in mind that biological children belong to the wife by default. The husband merely plays the role of a walking wallet(provider) and sperm depositor (whenever the need to conceive arrives).

    If you really, really want kids made with your seeds, consider a surrogate mother like Michael Jackson. Or there’s no stopping you from knocking some bitch up, pay the child support then tell them to leave you alone.

    Also, women from wealthy families are usually snobbish, pampered princesses. Theoretically, it is possible to make use of the wife and improve your social/political/economic status (see Arnold and Maria Shriver), but there will be a huge price to pay. It may not be worth it.

    The best is to game, game, game and avoid marriage 2.0. Even better if you can do without sex without ending up like Sodini. Many men have successfully channeled their sexual energies to something bigger, or got by with an occasional wank. This may be easier with age when libido tapers off.

    Like


  63. on August 14, 2009 at 4:08 pm jonathanjones02

    Outstanding advice. Good job Dave – such mindsets may well help to promote and keep marriage, which is the very foundation of social order in a good society.

    Like


  64. DA: Women who shit test like children don’t deserve to have an adult act like sex.

    JB: Right. YOU’RE punishing THEM, by withholding your shriveled, wank-blistered peeper.

    Funniest DA post ever.

    Like


  65. iow, he ran game on you and it worked. that’ll be all for now.

    He would likely vehemently deny that he “ran game” on me. I don’t know if you really want to call it game either after I explain it more. You can say his behavior was game, because he was naturally aloof to girls and was in a frame of mind where he did not care about women.

    He told me right from the get-go that he was absolutely not interested in a relationship, and that he was content with being single. He was single for years and never had a real LTR. He saw himself as someone that the women rejected as useless reproductively, and so he came to terms with just being alone for the rest of his life.

    I’d love to know how many women this type of “game” would work on?

    Like


  66. Or you can simply avoid this scenario by not marrying them, moving them in or getting them pregnant. You could jettison when the whining/ LTR shit testing starts in earnest. Seems much simpler to me.

    Like


  67. Anyone who acts like that should be kicked to the curb.

    most women act like dave’s wife. it’s standard operating procedure for the vaj set. only on internet comment boards do women get to imagine they would never act that way.

    Like


  68. onestdv:
    I don’t know if I would characterize this as “Game”. I’d just say he got some balls.

    same diff.
    a lot of the tactics dave employed on his transformative journey to loveable husband are ripped straight from the players’ handbook.

    Like


  69. Spunk – I’m well into the 3rd standard deviation in IQ, from a hale and hearty blue collar family.

    Someone has to make up for all those dumb people overbreeding.

    Wealthy girls are indeed what you say – but Game works very well on them (they can be trained to be very responsive). And the increase in one’s standard of living (from one’s blue collar roots) makes up for a lot of other things.

    Like


  70. Oh yes, a bunch of unproven, unprovable claims by someone writing under a pseudonym is just sooooo convincing.

    Like


  71. on August 14, 2009 at 4:39 pm mandy been here a while

    you MUST learn to apologize with sincerity without projecting the attitude that you are sorry.

    When I used to work at a bank, they taught us never to say “I’m sorry” to a customer. These words lower your status in their eyes and make people think you are groveling and that they can take advantage of you.

    Instead they taught us to re-frame everything so that you are trying help them but that you are lowering yourself to do so. For example: “I apologize for your confusion.” or “Next time, just do such and such and you won’t get charged this fee.” or “Here, let me see if I can correct this for you.”

    Like


  72. There is a difference between appeasing and teasing. Teasing is fun. Humor alleviates tension. It even works on children. I do it all the time. I posted recently about how I used it on a boy who was crying about his ice cream cone being the wrong flavor and arguing with his poor mom who was at the end of her rope. I told the little boy that if he didn’t want it, then I would eat it. It didn’t take long before they were all laughing.

    I’ve got game!

    This husband loves his wife he moved from appeasing to teasing. He introduced elements of surprise and it made things better. The difference is most “gamers” don’t give a crap.

    Like


  73. Spunk wins. There is no reason for an alpha to get married. Live free or die.

    Like


  74. I am nominating you for the first Nobel Prize in Pussy for the outstanding contributions this blog has made to humanity.

    Like


  75. If you ever see the Yahoo Answers section on Marriage/Divorce, it’s very funny to see the little ladies discussing schemes/time-tables to get their boyfriends to propose.

    The irony is that these posts are right in the same queue intermixed with “I am falling out of love with my husband”, “I am falling in love with someone else”, “Is making out considered cheating?”, and “Can I file restraining orders to remove him from the maritial residence when I file for divorce?” type posts.

    Almost like eating and sh*tting in the same pot. They don’t seem too disturbed by it. It’s very sick really.

    Like


  76. at least until the seven year itch

    Aye, and therein lies the danger. It can be done, but that remating instinct in women is STRONG.

    Like


  77. Best alpha text response ever? From Textsfromlastnight:

    (330): Little spoons don’t ask big questions

    Like


  78. @ Hope

    > I’d love to know how many women this type of “game” would work on?

    The wounded, moody, brooding type who has lost his faith in love and needs just the right women who will come along and save him from despair?

    You’re right. There is no women who would be interested in that😉

    Like


  79. I don’t know, JAM. That’s my ex-husband right now.

    Like


  80. @11minutes…is a committment beta? Refer to the Anthony Kiedis one vaj of separation story. Nordic princess had to be happy that she got to be the one who he apparently would take home for the holidays, not that the rock star would be faithful. I am also reminded of Stlye saying that he had MLTR’s because that’s the frame he projected. So…

    Like


  81. Hope,

    After visiting your website and seeing your pics, I have to say you are quite juicy. I would really love to give you some loving, Racer X style: long, hard, vigorous and from behind.

    Like


  82. on August 14, 2009 at 5:22 pm Marcus Aureliette

    spunk:
    If you really want companionship with a living creature, get a dog.

    Truth!

    Like


  83. Probably one of the most noble longings of modern liberalism (from Voltaire’s, not Rousseau’s intellectual legacy) is the longing to be in a egalitarian relationship based on mutual respect.

    This post confirms it: If to be human is to be rational (as Kant put it), women are not human beings.

    Instead, if one thing Game has taught me it’s that women are more like animals that are incapable of rising above or suppressing their base natures. Whenever I discuss this with friends, I refer to a woman’s “reptilian brain” that dominates her underused cerebral cortex (that in reality, she only uses to help justify her actions after the fact).

    Dave, I sure as fuck hope you cheated on (or continue to cheat on) your wife. (Even if you do realize that it was your own fault for having a shitty first 7 years of marriage.)

    Like


  84. Beautiful

    Like


  85. @lurker:

    Didn’t she say she refused to marry her baby daddy?

    Like


  86. on August 14, 2009 at 6:24 pm le grande voyage

    [quote]This brings up a question: How does a girl who truly cares for her man coax out the alpha in him? [/quote]

    Lisa, I was wondering the same thing myself. Am thinking of encouraging my part-alpha darling to travel more on his own so he can gain social confidence and I can be jealous that he’s meeting hotter girls in cool places where I’m not. Ridiculous, aint it? But I think it would work!

    Like


  87. why learn game when you can sport one of these?! http://twitpic.com/dwhcd

    Like


  88. Bonnie–

    Women can act like childish assholes, and of course men have their faults, and the only thing that will keep them happy is calculated manipulation. The important thing is that people are happy and attracted to each other, and if game helps that I guess it’s a great thing.

    I’m glad to see you’re coming around.

    You’re not so bad. Still work to do on you on the legal front though.

    Like


  89. @Savvy,

    Have you come to the conclusion that “most gamers don’t give a crap” based only on what you’ve seen by keyboard PUAs (the type that get into heated comment wars in blogs)?

    If so, you have experienced a very limited subset of people that employ “game” techniques. Certainly too narrow a subset to be generalizing about “most gamers”.

    Keep in mind that a lot of the people describing themselves as PUAs and bragging about game in places like this have had little contact with a real woman. If a person argues on the internet all day long about the best way to invest her money but has never actually invested a penny, she is not an investor. Yet, using your logic, you would generalize about “most investors” based on her writing?

    Not taking anything away from people like Roosh or Tyler who appear to be the real deal. Just keep in mind where the bulk of commentary is coming from.

    Like


  90. About screwing other women, the primary partner should know about this going in. It’s a bad idea to lure someone into a monogamous deal and then break your agreement.

    It’s easy to say “my way or the highway”, but men and women are different. If you do the equivalent of “trading up”, you may find that you traded your Lexus for a Fiat Punto.

    If you had trouble pulling before you got your current wife/girlfriend, you may be better off nurturing the relationship you have, than trying to chase new drama.

    Voice of experience here…More women = more drama.

    Like


  91. OneSTV–

    What he’s doing isn’t some process that takes years to master. I think that constantly trying to be an alpha male would be quite exhausting for a beta. But to act like Dave does, to stand up for yourself and not be a little bitch, that’s rather easy. It’s about asserting yourself and not taking her shit.

    I’ll defer to more knowledgeable PUA’s here, but that’s how I see it.

    It is rather easy if you’re at all alpha in your life and you haven’t chosen a true ball buster woman.

    What real betas need to do is learn to be less beta – deferential, submissive, following. Learn to be more take charge, and leading.

    You don’t have to be capable of inspiring a division and then whole corps of soldiers, Patton like, to act alpha enough to make a LTR work. You just have to not act like a feminism propagandized pussy male.

    Admit and Amplify is a brilliant beginning for betas. It’s pretty easy.

    The general principle is playful, teasing, light leadership/dominance. Don’t sweat the small stuff. Don’t just order her about either – or anyway, that’s an advanced class. It’s not where to start.

    Like


  92. Women are childish assholes.

    Like


  93. Quite enjoyable and revealing post.

    Ive always enjoyed Dave’s take on things.

    Like


  94. CH

    Whenever there is a marital fight, no man should ever choose to take the couch. That way is the way of the beta. You either sleep in your own goddamned bed and let smoke come out of her ears all night as you snore loudly next to her, or she chooses to take the couch.

    I’m so glad you said that above.

    I decided that for myself a long time ago. I have refused to not sleep in my own bed for more than 10 years now. Not once have I taken that shiite since then from any women living with me and there have been a number.

    Like


  95. on August 14, 2009 at 9:34 pm Marcus Aureliette

    Dave:
    If you’ve had sex with a man, if you’ve had relationships with a man, you have been a part of the social dynamics that PUA refer to as “GAME.” Because if the guy had none, you wouldn’t have been attracted enough to take your clothes off and spread your legs for him.

    See, this is where you’re wrong, in this declaration of universality. It seems to upset some guys here whenever it’s said, but there are women — a very small minority, perhaps, but nevertheless we exist — who actually are attracted to what guys here refer to as betas.

    I wouldn’t touch an alpha with a barge pole, but if your system works in achieving your goals, you go on with your bad self. The existence of a handful of outliers shouldn’t trouble anyone too much.

    Like


  96. Oh Great and All-Knowing Dave From Hawaii:

    Please enlighten me how you go about managing the other 90% of your relationship time with your wife.

    The insights you have shared regarding LTR shit-test game are already ingrained in me. BTDT.

    Like most PUA advice, it centers on the “high notes”(or “testing points”) – of an ongoing relationship.

    Which is to say — there are moments in a relationship that can make or break you, and a woman’s shit tests are assuredly among those. The Community has done well in mapping just what is involved in those moments of interpersonal “negotiations.”

    But surely your marriage is made up of more than just mute, placid, aloof “goings on” interspersed with deflecting shit-tests, no?

    I can’t imagine that your wife never feels the need for affection, or tenderness, or praise, or just general romanticism (of some variety or another).

    I guess what I’m asking is, how do you manage those moments that AREN’T shit tests, where you are compelled to relate emotionally to your wife, WITHOUT backsliding into potential betaness?

    Weak point of my LTR game.

    Historically, I started as Beta, and through the flaming sword of soul-killing Truth, learned to pull myself up by my bootstraps to where NO woman EVER gets the upper hand on me.

    But this…stance…seems to work best for flings and STR’s.

    In LTR’s, I have lost the ability to relate in any humanistic/vulnerable way without triggering the clanging alarms of pending betatude. The devil whispers in my ear and says, “That way lies madness.”

    But this type of relating certainly makes up the bulk of any non-sexual intimate time spent with another person, particularly if you are living with them.

    How do YOU navigate the fluctuating and undulating needs of the female psyche in LTR’s, oh Duke Kahanamoku?

    Like


  97. nerdgirl:

    It seems to upset some guys here whenever it’s said, but there are women — a very small minority, perhaps, but nevertheless we exist — who actually are attracted to what guys here refer to as betas.

    Attracted?

    With your mind…or with your LOINS?

    Like


  98. on August 14, 2009 at 7:50 pm Dave from Hawaii

    Heh…after seeing all of those posts compiled into one long one, I now realize I have been spending a little too much time here.

    Looking back, I do have to say this has been a very interesting “transformation,” as he put it.

    And the real “transformation” was really just an awareness I gained of the dynamics of interpersonal human relationships…things for which I had no clue about as a kid growing up in our feminized, matriarchal culture.

    I thought I was being the most nice, accommodating and considerate husband I could be…which is how our culture pretty much dictates and indoctrinates men as the key to a “happy marriage.” I now know beyond the shadow of a doubt that this “beta-izing” effect is in fact the primary reason women “fall out of love” or “just can’t do this anymore” or “I need to find myself.” This is a motivating factor for WHY women initiate 2/3rds of all divorces in the country…because to a woman, at her most basic, subconscious level…her instinctual id…NOTHING is more horrifying than getting impregnated by a beta. You act beta, you are turning her off on a level that she often times doesn’t even consciously realize it herself.

    This is why I often reference the Matrix metaphor.

    Taking the red pill and seeing things clearly is really what this is all about. Because that blue pill that society rams down all of our throats is a high dosage of pure deception and delusion.

    And it’s not just observations applied to my own marriage..but to life in general. I now notice the inter-relational dynamics amongst other people, and my other relationships with other people, and group social dynamics.

    As for the interesting commentary reaction:

    To all who give me props, thanks. I don’t participate here for props, or recognition, or any other such thing. (I have my own blog, some of you have found it…but I do not come here to whore for blog traffic). I participate here because I have seen the literal power of transformation that taking the red pill has done for me in my personal life. It has been profound. If I can help even one other person turn their life around the way I have mine, I am satisfied with my time spent reading and writing here.

    Our’s is a society that has been socially engineered by people who have a vested interest in destroying harmonious relationships between the genders. It is a deliberate and subversive assault on the very foundation of civilization – the nuclear family.

    Having taken the red pill, I believe I now see the “BIG” picture quite clearly. Which is why I no longer regret marrying a pretty young thing when I was young, dumb and ignorant. I’m just glad I learned the truth before it was too late.

    In short – I got married young, ’cause I fell for my wife HARD. She was a “9” when I first met her (she was a teen model in high school). She has aged well…at 34, she still gets carded when buying alcohol or we are trying to get into an adult venue (I think it’s the filipino genes).

    As I wrote in one of the posts he excerpted, I’m going on 12 years of marriage, and my wife still gives me the “FUCK ME” eyes.

    When I was a beta chump with my balls in her purse, I literally forgot what that look from her was like. I now see it all the time. She doesn’t even have to say a word to me, or do anything to seduce me. She just looks at me in that way, and we what happily married people do.

    Since I’ve learned game, every single day of life with her is like a new day of dating. That’s how I changed MY approach, and she has responded to that just as much as she responded in contempt to my own beta behavior.

    My wife cooks and cleans for me without complaint. In fact, she does it cheerfully and enthusiastically. She literally can’t wait to see my reaction when she tries out a new recipe and she presents my meals to me with eagerness on her face and that beautiful smile I fell in love with when I was 20. She takes pride in the house we have and the life we’ve built together.

    In short, personality wise, through getting back to being a MAN instead of a Beta, my wife that I live with every day, displays the qualities that made me want to marry her in the first place. When I was acting Beta, she was acting bitchy.

    She constantly tells me she loves me, she always calls me when we are apart. She tells everyone we know that she loves me…that I’m her best friend…and I’ve literally overheard her on numerous occasions telling friends, family and acquaintances that we have a great marriage.

    She has always been sweet and feminine the entire time we were dating…but than, when we were dating, I was a young man with goals, ambitions, direction. I had a mission, and I put it first. I went to school full time, I worked full time to support myself, and I trained martial arts and was an avid hunter. My time was full, and when I fit her into my schedule, I would invite her into my world, and take the lead and I was anything but “beta” when we were dating. I was decisive, confident, and a little bit cocky. Call it “subconscious game.” I always took the lead and she willingly and happily followed.

    After a few years of marriage, I was definitely not the man she married. And I don’t think she even consciously realized it..but she certainly reacted to it. Those “reactions” are pretty much the basis for the experiences I related here.

    To the females that come here and take what limited relationship details I have revealed to make my points, and passed judgement on my wife and her personality, I say shut the fuck up and quit being so self centered and narcissistic about yourself.

    Try and read, and comprehend, and understand what everyone who contributes here before you react to it and spout off without thinking.

    You are simply falling into the exact same idiocy so many other dumb women have done when they first encounter this blog:

    “I’M not like that!”

    Yes, you are, and you don’t even know it, because you’ve been brainwashed by a society that puts the female gender on a pedestal. Your denial is nothing more than the manifestation of this indoctrination. You are not some special creature for which observations of human nature that are generally applicable to most “normal” people do not apply to you.

    “Game would NEVER work on me!”

    Yes, it does, unless your a celibate nun that never interacts with any males during every waking moment of your life.

    If you’ve had sex with a man, if you’ve had relationships with a man, you have been a part of the social dynamics that PUA refer to as “GAME.” Because if the guy had none, you wouldn’t have been attracted enough to take your clothes off and spread your legs for him.

    “Game” is just a nomer for the traditional gender role based on masculine nature.

    Masculinity is what turns you on.

    Acting “beta” is really just suppressing masculine instinct…because masculinity is the basis for what turns the feminine on and vice versa.

    Don’t look at literal examples such as what I and others here have posted as literal, concrete examples that are rigid rules that have no variations or room for interpretation.

    Every person is different, everyone got their own kink. But in the end, if you have a relationship with a person of the opposite gender, pushing the other person’s attraction buttons IS A GAME.

    Either you play it without even realizing your playing it…or you consciously reject the Game and go your own way…or you can study it, analyze it, and apply it and make the most of it.

    But if you are human, and you have had sexual relations with another human being, you have partaken in this thing called “GAME.”

    Like


  99. It seems to upset some guys here whenever it’s said, but there are women — a very small minority, perhaps, but nevertheless we exist — who actually are attracted to what guys here refer to as betas.

    I don’t know where the original comment is, but I’d like to say that whatever you perceive as attraction for betas is most likely practical minded. Yes, betas are better to settle down with. I will concede on that point. Because, they’re most likely to pander to your every need and want, all the while, not holding you up to the same standard. However, betas don’t incite the same visceral, panty-wetting attraction alphas do.

    And I’m just stating for the record, qualities like intelligence are not “beta”. Beta is a way of life.

    Like


  100. Haha I squirmed while my poor buddy get nailed with the restaurant shit test once. Amazing how exactly it fits that same sequence.

    Him: “How about here? There? This place?”
    Her: “No. No. No. How about we just go to Subway?”
    Him: “OK”
    (At Subway)
    Him: “OK what do you want?”
    Her: “I don’t want anything here.”
    Him: *Exasperated sigh* “We can go somewhere else…”
    (At this point he looks over at me, standing there shocked, with an depleted and embarrassed look on his face.)
    Her: “No, what you’re having looks good I’ll just have half of it. But no pickles or olives.”

    My friends and I had often joked about how much of her shit this guy put up with (she was pretty hot with an 11/10 body) but I’d never seen anything quite like this before in my life.

    Obviously this didn’t last, the only reason it lasted so long is that they were high-school sweethearts and he was a smart and handsome guy.

    The real waste was that they had a long-distance relationship for years while this guy was in his potential prime at university. I’m not sure if he’s learned from it or will keep getting trapped like that since he moved away. He is lucky though with good enough looks to pull tail without having any game at all though (the bastard).

    Like


  101. Dave from Hawaii:

    Care to share the URL to your blog?

    I’m sure there are plenty of people interested.

    Like


  102. Lucifer wrote:

    “Women are childish assholes.”

    Lucifer,

    I think “consensus” and ‘status-within-their-coveted-social group’ are two things that are apparently profoundly primally important to females that we as men just dont feel nearly as much.

    I remember reading some of the online writings of pickup artist Tyler Durden, whom some consider to be one of the best, and he wrote something to the effect that women want, maybe more than anything, to be with “cool guys”. The guys with a big “popular” social group, the guys other guys (and gals) thought to be “cool” and who are well-liked by many (pre-selection?).

    Perhaps there is some evolutionary psychology within that observation. A guy who is “cool” with many people and well-liked, has many human resources at his disposal. He has friends to turn to for whatever reason (these things obviously must operate on a subconscious level or in the cerebellum……the most primitive part of their brains). I guess if a “cool” guy with tons of pals (both male and female) gets downsized, plenty of folks will try and get him hired where they work. A “cool” guy who is well liked will have lots of friends to socialize with (which women, who love the little status-competitions inherent within socializing, are usually going to love), and stand up for him should he ever need it.

    I dont think we as men appreciate women’s apparent urges to socially compete in groups. This kind of thing will seem silly and ridiculous to a man who things completely logically and with linear reason. He doesn’t want to “compete” at all, and couldn’t care less about “being seen” and all that silly-ass striving behavior.

    Dave’s constant subtle reminders to his wife that he is in demand (cool) and attractive to other women, probably makes her feel like a 7th grader who is getting to run with the “cool 8th grade clique” socially. Her getting to be with him (Dave) probably makes her feel like she is one of the “popular” girls who has won the affection of the choice boys, whom she gets to show off to the lesser girls. Remember all that shit when you were a kid? Remember how the girls loved that “popularity” and gossip back in middle school and high school? How they would compete to win the attention of the football players, even if the player in question was kind of a dorky-looking tool? I think perhaps they never really get all that much past that psycho-emotional stage subconsciously, its just too hardwired.

    Ive seen women pass up on a “got-it-together” impressive guy with looks and money for “party-boys” who looked just OK at best, and were pretty much broke. What we a men value apparently doesn’t ring the appropriate bells with females. I suppose one can disdain them for it, or learn about it and master it and use it to obtain sex from them.

    Like


  103. @z:

    Doesn’t it work both ways though? Don’t men want to be with women who are socially dominant (and as a corollary, very attractive)?

    Like


  104. on August 14, 2009 at 10:24 pm Dave from Hawaii

    That’s a good line of questioning Tupac. I don’t really know how to answer that other than to say that while I don’t indulge in PDA very often, It’s not as if I act uncaring and aloof when we are alone together. We give each other affection all the time.

    The difference is I now no longer do things that ‘scream out’ beta. She asks for affection, I give it…and there are times where she asks for it, and not verbally. I can just tell by the way she looks at me when she wants a hug or reassurance.

    To tell you the truth…this whole LTR game thing has saturated by consciousness to the point where I am aware of social dynamics without thinking too hard about it. It’s like I tuned my mind up to recognizing these things immediately. I’ve become an expert on reading my wife’s emotional state…she is no longer some grand mysterious puzzle to me. I also “see” these things when I observe other people interacting with each other.

    But this type of relating certainly makes up the bulk of any non-sexual intimate time spent with another person, particularly if you are living with them.

    I dunno, other than to say I spent my early adult hood with a large variety of roommates, and I had to learn how to live with other people. To give space, the mark my own space, and show consideration to other people’s needs as well as my own.

    I simply extend that same type of courtesy to her as I would any other roommate. And any mundane conversation about mundane topics, I’ll talk to her as I would any other good friend. When it’s time for game, I play. When it’s not, I just treat like any other person who I admire and respect.

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  105. on August 14, 2009 at 10:26 pm Anonymous for now

    I’m curious about the alpha/beta experts would label the following man:

    He never complied with putting his hands around my neck just playing around or in sexual moments (acted appalled, when it would’ve been a turn on), but would easily transition into physical violence when he was angry/when we argued (I obviously didn’t request the former anymore after I experienced latter).

    Alpha or Beta?

    Like


  106. on August 14, 2009 at 10:35 pm Dave from Hawaii

    @ Carl Sagan –

    I’ve kinda compartmentalized my writing – game-HBD stuff here, while my blog is more about my libertarian philosophy and discussing “conspiracy theory.” Because I do believe there is in fact a certain level of conspiracy that is true…while a lot of it is deliberate misinformation designed to make the average blue pill swallower shut their mind to ALL conspiracy theory.

    I focus on the aspects that are easily observable and identifiable to people who have an open mind…to which I believe feminism and it’s effects on culture are one of those major phenomenon’s that in fact clearly traces back to some form of a conspiracy to socially engineer society, certainly exists.

    But the biggest reason why I don’t advertise my URL is because most of what I blog about is more along the political rather than any of the stuff I write about here. And I really…REALLY do not want to have to endure a femtard/SWPL libtard invasion of the likes this blog is regularly subjected to. I waste enough time as it is debating with the likes of those here…

    Like


  107. This brings up a question: How does a girl who truly cares for her man coax out the alpha in him?

    Dump him, dress better, become slutty, and start fucking alphas.

    You act beta, you are turning her off on a level that she often times doesn’t even consciously realize it herself.

    Then that’s her fucking problem to deal with.

    Like


  108. Great post today, very inspiring.

    Like


  109. Him: “OK what do you want?”
    Her: “I don’t want anything here.”

    The next line should be “fuck you” with the man leaving the woman.

    Her: “No, what you’re having looks good I’ll just have half of it. But no pickles or olives.

    The next line should be “fuck you, get your own food”.

    2009 is going to be the year we stop shit tests.

    However, betas don’t incite the same visceral, panty-wetting attraction alphas do.

    So don’t date betas out of some desire to be practical. That’s just proves that you’re a golddigger.

    Like


  110. in sexual moments (acted appalled, when it would’ve been a turn on)

    I don’t choke golddigging whores.

    Like


  111. Z,

    I know that, and I don’t care. Look, if your whole purpose in life is getting validation from a woman or other men- are you any better? or more importantly, happy?

    While I have never doubted the reasons behind womens actions… let’s get real. We do not live in the stone age or dark ages. Indulging their bullshit has real nasty consequences.

    I prefer to buy sex rather than put up with such bullshit… because face it, both alpha and beta are still reactive behaviors. You are playing their game, and nothing they can give you is worth it.

    Like


  112. Dave from Hawaii –

    Fair enough. Just don’t tell me you believe that the moon landings were a hoax and that 9/11 was an inside job.

    Like


  113. on August 14, 2009 at 11:03 pm Dave from Hawaii

    LOL – I don’t know WHAT to believe anymore when it comes to something like 9/11.

    Inside job? I dunno…I’m more along the lines of FDR let Pearl Harbor happen so he could get the country to go along with war…well, 9/11 certainly created an environment for a large number of constitutional violations that Obama is now taking full advantage of.

    As for the Moon Landings…don’t know, don’t care.

    Put it this way – I’m a Ron Paul “Republican.”

    Like


  114. 9/11 being taking advantage by the government and media? Fair enough. That’s what politics is all about. Seizing any and every opportunity that will help your cause. But actually orchestrating the entire event? A bit of a stretch imo.

    Like


  115. S,

    “S.
    @z:

    Doesn’t it work both ways though? Don’t men want to be with women who are socially dominant (and as a corollary, very attractive)?”

    1) be pretty
    2) be friendly and likeable (and feminine)

    Socially dominant females dont do to men what socially dominant men do to women. Men and women are different in their wants. If Meagan Fox was a library-straddling book-nerd with only 2 friends, men would be just as hot for her. They dont care if she is president of the whatever club, or got voted to the chair of whatever organization. I know some will not like hearing that, but its just the way men are hardwired.

    Like


  116. Dave from Hawaii I hope you continue posting. For whatever reason, I seem to understand the point of many of the posters more easily when you post it. Obviously, I think CH is a very clever writer, and he’s very amusing, but his point sometimes gets lost in the weeds for me. I appreciate your translations of it.

    Not that I necessarily expect to learn too much reading here, but y’all are fascinating (men usually are) and the ideas discussed a nice counterpoint to my very SWPL (gag to that term) upbringing/lifestyle.

    Like


  117. @David Alexander:

    I never said I dated betas for practical reasons. I was saying that women who perceive attraction to betas aren’t perceiving attraction at all, only beneficial dating opportunities.

    @z:

    Right, yeah, I get it. But, I think the primary attraction is charisma, and then the incidental attraction is the popularity factor. Charisma wins you popularity, but charisma is what women like. Or so, I would think.

    As for women… I suppose being attractive and popular are mutually dependent factors, so it’s not fair to say that it functions in the same way. You’re right, it boils down to being good looking.

    Like


  118. Dave from Hawaii is an inspiration to me. I was in a situation similar to him with my wife but as people familiar with my story now I went down a bit more of a destructive path of virtual Bill Clinton-style polygamy and philandering that still has yet to fully resolve. I shudder to think what it would have been like if I had learned game a year or two earlier.

    Like


  119. @z:

    Do men even care about women’s social politics?

    Whenever someone would try to trash talk me around my boyfriend, he’d say,”And she’s my girlfriend. Your point is?”

    At the same time I’ve seen guys want to date girls because it seems like they’re popular, and they want to get in with the group.

    But that seems like a beta trait. I don’t know. Could you enlighten me?

    Like


  120. @S
    “I suppose being attractive and popular are mutually dependent factors, so it’s not fair to say that it functions in the same way.”

    Goodness, not where I’m from. From what I’ve seen, the queen bees will have some cute/pretty friends, but a number of them will be fat and ugly to avoid having to deal with competition in their same circle.

    Like


  121. @Mandy:

    Yeah, I think you could be right. I’m thinking back to middle school, and some of the popular girls were only popular out of fear (they were fat bullies). I went to a high school that was structured based on intellectual ability so it made for a strange social dynamic, and therefore, no popular people.

    I’m thinking of packs of girls I see in clubs. The more socially adjusted the seem, the prettier they tend to be, but that’s not always the rule. I see a fair bit of chunky bitchy girls too, and they also rove in packs with some thin girls flanking their sides.

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  122. Dave’s conversation with his wife about where they should eat does not indicate that he failed because he was just too much of a beta, it indicates that his wife is a difficult and passive-aggressive drama queen. Who the hell manages to turn “where should we eat today” into a big argument? A normal person would either make a decision or be satisfied with whatever Dave decides. Doesn’t anyone realize how insane it is that even something as mundane as deciding where to eat will turn into a shitstorm unless you apply social engineering to defuse the situation? In the conversation, Dave is being perfectly reasonable while his wife is acting like a baby.

    I drove home, and got into bed. I thought she was asleep…but she promptly said in a real bitchy tone “Where you having fun tonight?!?!”

    People lacking personality disorders might instead say “where were you? What happened?” instead of going berserk (and why didn’t she call Dave to find out where he is?).

    You want to boil down “game” into one phrase, it’s DON’T BE BETA.

    This could mean anything. Everyone has a different idea of what a beta (or alpha) is.

    Example:

    Honey, would you like me to give you a massage? I know you’re sore form your hard day! Let me make you feel better…

    Doing the same thing, but in a non-Beta manner – cocky/arrogant style – “Get over here and take your clothes off, I’m tired of hearing you groan about your sore muscles.”

    Or you could just say “want a massage?” It doesn’t have to be either groveling or “HAHA I R COCKY/ARROGANT.”

    Anon

    Any woman who’s in love with you already assumes you fuck other chicks.

    Uh, no.

    spunk

    Alpha husband = oxymoron.

    Married men are nothing more than wimps in beta serfdom.

    Sure you may pass your wife’s shit tests with flying colors. You may not be a doormat. So what? That’s nothing to brag about. You’re still stuck with one (rapidly deteriorating) pussy that you cannot discard without dire consequences to yourself.

    If you were a true alpha, you would not have married in the first place. You would not have proposed, signed the contract or let her live with you under the same roof.

    Suprise, suprise: we have yet another counter-definition. Sure would be nice if the PUA community could get their terminology straight.

    Some people actually like being with just one person, spunk.

    Dave from Hawaii

    “Game” is just a nomer for the traditional gender role based on masculine nature.

    Game is an artificial construct.

    Like


  123. I never said I dated betas for practical reasons. I was saying that women who perceive attraction to betas aren’t perceiving attraction at all, only beneficial dating opportunities.

    I’m glad that you eschew beta males, and I appreciate your candor and honest on the subject. You are not a golddigger, but an honest and trustworthy woman that will make an alpha male very happy. The other girls who date beta males are dirty golddiggers.🙂

    Like


  124. Hmm. Very interesting comments.

    First off, I tip my Kangol to DFH. I’ve always enjoyed his thoughts on Game especially from a LTR POV, since that’s what I’ve always been most interested in.

    Second, I notice a distinct change in tone coming from Dave Alex…like he’s been effected by some of the words here, to the extent that he begins to lash out, almost Sodini-like. Interesting.

    And lastly, MA…with all due respect, may I ask just how many relationships have you had in your life? I ask because what you say doesn’t seem to make much sense, unless we’re talking about the established pattern of Asian Women hooking up w/obviously Beta type White guys.

    Thanks.

    O

    Like


  125. Z,

    I know that, and I don’t care. Look, if your whole purpose in life is getting validation from a woman or other men- are you any better? or more importantly, happy?

    While I have never doubted the reasons behind womens actions… let’s get real. We do not live in the stone age or dark ages. Indulging their bullshit has real nasty consequences.

    I prefer to buy sex rather than put up with such bullshit… because face it, both alpha and beta are still reactive behaviors. You are playing their game, and nothing they can give you is worth it.

    Like


  126. Obsidian,

    I have always felt that DA was neither beta or omega. He is not seeking validation from women, and truthfully even so called alphas seeks it.

    Maybe we have to create a new category.

    Like


  127. You Know Who,
    You know what? You’re right-Dave’s wife shouldn’t act like that. Its irrational, definitely illogical, and makes no good sense as to why a grown assed adult would act in such a way. Yup. No doubt about it.

    But, that’s not the way the realworld works, I’m afraid; when it comes to things like sex, love, attraction, relationships and marriage, Men and Women alike do all kinds of weird, crazy, and often dumb shit. Such is life, YKW.

    And, the real kicker is, ain’t much point railing against it, because if there was a real antidote against it, where everyone could change into Spock-like Vulcans, believe you me, it would have happened by now. It hasn’t, and most likely, won’t.

    The last place in the world any of us should be looking for reason, rationality, logic or plain ole commonsense, is in the areas of love and sex, YKW. Anyone who does, is surely on a Fool’s Errand.

    Now, of course, in your case, you may be the rarified individual who has been blessed not to have to go through the travails a poor fellow like DFH has had to endure. Fair enough, and if this is indeed the case, I tip my hat to you, sir. But for the rest of us mere mortals, this is the cross we must bear.

    So, please, in your moments of clear superiority, see fit to grant us a bit of noblese oblige; for we are but flawed human beings, trying to make sense of this world in the best way that we can.

    And, you never did answer Marcus Aureilette’s question: if you deplore PUA and Game so much-why are you here?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  128. @David Alexander:

    You’ve gotten less fanatical, more caustic. It’s good. I like it.

    Like


  129. Obsidian,

    and that is precisely why I do not care about humans. With our old attitudes + current technology, humans will wipe themselves off this earth.

    You cannot have stone age attitudes (and behavior) in an age of nukes, global supply chains and technology. Something will have to give..

    Like


  130. Inspiring post. Until reading this, I’ve generally assumed that a beta in a marriage would have to exit to become alpha, as his wife would be unable to see him anew. (I guess I extrapolated that from certain of my friends I stopped hanging around with when they couldn’t accept my transition from beta to alpha.)

    I wonder if this beta husband (who I assume was a July BOTM runner-up) would have any hope, should he discover Game:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/therese-borchard/trash-night-what-about-se_b_242213.html

    Like


  131. S.,

    You are on a saddle point in human history. Somehow you are not going to like any of the possible outcomes.

    Like


  132. Lucifer,
    My friend, you may indeed be right. All’s I know is, ain’t much point bemoaning it all, because at the end of the day, ya still gotta go out there and deal in the real. And half of all people you will deal with, will be Women. That’s just the way it is.

    O

    Like


  133. Obsidian,

    If you ever watched star trek you should know that vulcans became logical only after they let their emotions get them in a horrible nuclear war that almost wiped them out.

    They ran out of options.. and so will we (maybe in a different way). The vulcan option is one of the more optimistic scenario, in my opinion. They got it, before they could make themselves extinct.

    Most of sci-fi is a commentary on possible paths that we might take.

    Like


  134. Lucifer,
    Yup, you’re right. And its very possible that someday, Humanity as a whole might choose to go that route.

    But that day aint today.

    So, in the meantime, we’re stuck w/our silly, illogical ways, Lucifer. Not the best of options, but there it is. And we have to get on about the business of living in this world. No amount of lament, whing, moaning or bitching, is gonna change any of that.

    We just have to get on with it.
    O

    Like


  135. Second, I notice a distinct change in tone coming from Dave Alex…like he’s been effected by some of the words here, to the extent that he begins to lash out, almost Sodini-like. Interesting.

    The stress of the real world along with the statements said here are feeding the anger.

    You’ve gotten less fanatical, more caustic. It’s good. I like it.

    Why? That’s the worst thing that could happen. I don’t like being caustic because it’s wrong.

    Like


  136. This is a new business idea:

    Have CH(TM)-certified marriage counselors that are guaranteed to be man-friendly and deeply steeped in the art of evo-psych and game.

    First they give the women the “facts” on divorce: (1) no one will marry her leather handbag ass – any attention she’s getting from other men is just from guys seeking a joke fuck (2) the kids will turn into retards ,etc… (3) other chicks find the husband very attractive – just like Jon Goselin- there could be planted hot models that will flirt with the husband to provide the wife with social proof

    Second they “man-up” the guy (1) He’s given a choice of contact sports to play. (2) they make him work out (3) he’s given assertiveness training which works out scenarios from a “taken in hand” marriage

    Third they do some bitch training: (1) all money goes into a fund retained by the counselor… it gets disbursed only if goals are met by the chick (2) in the lobby there are fake Reader’s Digest and women’s magazines with health articles that talk about how many women’s health problems can be fixed by applying a “fresh semen coating” to her upper GI tract and she has to provide daily vaginal, rectal, and cheek swab samples to ensure that all of her orifices have recently been coated in her husbands spew in compliance with the “fuck calendar” that the counselor has worked out for her. (3) they have a judging panel of men rate her fuckability… if her appearance fails to meet certain improvement schedules… no money

    It would work if there’s no no-fault divorce and the CH (TM) certified marriage counseling company conspires to pack all the county familiy law courts with CH-certified pro-man judges…

    Like


  137. @David Alexander:

    …because it makes you seem grounded. Even if being acerbic is coming from some strange, destructive place, it’s more human than basing all your thought and actions on Kantian universal maxims.

    Like


  138. on August 15, 2009 at 2:23 am The Fifth Horseman

    Obsidian asked,

    And, you never did answer Marcus Aureilette’s question: if you deplore PUA and Game so much-why are you here?

    There seem to be quite a few of those here, eh? No interest in practicing Game, yet being here…

    Like


  139. So what exactly is ‘gina tingle’? Is it something that can be objectively measured? I know researchers sometimes measure clit boners and vagina squeezing on instruments to see if chicks are turned on. If we can instrument it and measure it, then we can experiment and confirm elements of game in a scientific way.

    Maybe you could get DARPA funding for something like that…

    Like


  140. I googled ‘gina tingle’ and there’s literally some chick named “Gina Tingle”…. whoa… i have way too much time on my hands this evening.

    Like


  141. My take on DA:

    He has disconnected, and each person disconnects in their own way. I think DA is on the right path in one respect- he is starting to ignore the “matrix” of approval and disapproval.

    I realized the futility of trying to please and get the approval of a woman a long time ago (and in that sense I disconnected from women years ago). However unlike DA I have use for them as sex objects, and that is why I pay for escorts.Same with my career path – disconnected from the common route that lead nowhere and took my own route.

    I have to say that both of those decisions made me much happier, and more well off, than I ever imagined.

    Like


  142. Dave — What you need to know about 9/11 can be encapsulated by Clinton’s favorite National Security Expert who wrote in July, 2001, an editorial “The Declining Terrorist Threat.” (Larry C. Johnson, a “Truther”). The reality of 9/11 was that it was predicted, as far back as the 1980’s, by Pentagon officials and flying planes into skyscrapers by terrorists was a plot in a comic book by Frank Miller. Clinton put up roadblock after roadblock to stopping the plot, in the collection of foreign intelligence, going after bin Laden and associates, and sharing data among the FBI and CIA. In that he followed Presidents since Nixon.

    This is understandable — doing something about the threat EVERYONE saw (this was predictable back in the 1970s) would have required huge political costs: racial/religious/national profiling, throwing out “civil rights” suits, taking on the ACLU and liberals to share info between the CIA and FBI, taking political heat for buddying up to drug runners, terrorists, brutal secret police, and dictators who had inside info on bin Laden and AQ, and even more heat for a real plan not a PC-fantasy to kill bin Laden and his cadre regardless of casualties, US or civilians.

    Nixon did nothing when Arafat killed US Ambassadors. Nor did Ford. Carter, Reagan, and Bush 1 all played footsie with Iranian terrorists at different points. Clinton kicked the can down the road 8 years, and Bush for 8 months. This was because ALL the incentives were for doing nothing in the face of escalating attacks and pretending nothing bad would happen ever again.

    The lack of will in that and the Housing Bubble is striking. No one “knew” the actual plot, just a general danger and lacked any willpower or ability to incur (a probable chance of impeachment) big costs to stop it.

    Like


  143. But, that’s not the way the realworld works, I’m afraid; when it comes to things like sex, love, attraction, relationships and marriage, Men and Women alike do all kinds of weird, crazy, and often dumb shit.

    Thank you Obsidian, for acknowledging that men do some of that, too.😉 A lot of people are not aware of or do not attempt to understand why they act in certain ways at certain times.

    For example, when people are hungry, sleepy or stressed out, things can get to them more easily, irritate them when they might not otherwise, and their “fuse” is just shorter. It gets really bad when it’s a combination of all three. Some people can become aware of this and “catch” themselves. Others, not so much.

    what exactly is ‘gina tingle’

    In pure biological terms it is a uterine contraction. “The upper end of the uterus goes into rhythmic contractions of considerable frequency whenever there is sexual arousal”

    Like


  144. Z says, “If Meagan Fox was a library-straddling book-nerd with only 2 friends, men would be just as hot for her. They dont care if she is president of the whatever club, or got voted to the chair of whatever organization. I know some will not like hearing that, but its just the way men are hardwired.”

    Sure, they’d be just as hot for her, but most of them would never man up enough to show it. All but the alphas and higher betas who had the good sense to wife shop at an appropriate age, would treat her like a pump and dump, and wouldn’t want anyone to know they were shagging her.

    I got called and ugly bitch every day for 3 years by people I barely spoke to. If you compare me “objectively” to my female classmates at the time (feel free, it’s all on Facebook) I was much fitter and hotter than most of them.

    It’s not your dicks that are affected by social status of women. It’s your balls. If you don’t have the balls to go against the grain, you render yourself basically irrelevant to a female who is of lower status than yourself.

    …and indirectly, to women of equal or higher status as well. No woman in her right mind wants a wuss.

    Like


  145. God bless you, Dave. Your words ring with shattering wisdom and clarity.

    I’ve shared this post with several married friends who are doing ok, but probably could use this advice.

    I’ve traveled a similar path as you. Although never married, I’ve had my share of multi-year LTRs. I see my old self in your description of your pre-game marriage days. Looking back, my mismanagement of my woman stands out in stark clarity.

    Now I manage my women along the lines of what you’ve discovered. I get away with stuff I never imagined possible. I’m happier, and so are they.

    One thing Game has taught me is that, deep within their psyche, all women crave being dominated and protected by a strong and masculine man. A precious few women in our feminized culture are even dimly aware of this. A man’s understanding and application of these principles truly is the path to LTR happiness for both partners.

    Like


  146. Nicole,

    “Sure, they’d be just as hot for her, but most of them would never man up enough to show it. ”

    Not me…. I always sought such chicks out. In college I literally plotted out a strategy to maximize my contact with such women (they still had to look good though) so I could pick out the better ones. Essentially I was methodically picking the mother of my children who would start a new generation of superhuman JerrDogg-clones that didn’t have the torn knee ligaments I had….

    I wasn’t smooth and being older and wiser (and some of this, yes comes from some of the ‘knowledge’ passed on here) I shudder at how inept I probably was. I lost some of my cockiness from high school figuring that ‘nice guy game’ was more mature and found myself in the strange position of having some trouble with women. I did the ‘friend’ route with some of them to get to know them better and now I see how much of a horrible mistake that was.

    By my looks, and other qualities, I still got a smart good-looking woman in spite of being a pussy. But then it started to go horribly wrong when out of ‘love’ I started to define my (non-career) happiness as her happiness. It was like Jon and Kate… I was de-balled. I was a ’10’ on the Hootie and the Blowfish pussy scale.

    I read the posts here and I can’t help but see the light and wonder what the fuck I was thinking.

    Like


  147. If any of you are university students or otherwise connected in any way to academia, please force this blog down the throats of anyone you can reach in the social sciences… perhaps somewhere, someone eventually will start to study this stuff formally. The academic fembos who have done so much damage to society over the last forty years need to have fists shoved up their assholes by fellow academics (this is in addition to fighting them on all other fronts)

    Like


  148. Gjdm.

    Like


  149. JerrDogg, “I read the posts here and I can’t help but see the light and wonder what the fuck I was thinking.”

    Me too, man…me too, just from a different point of view.

    You can’t fault yourself for what you didn’t know though. Just be thankful you could take in the knowledge and apply it in a useful way, once you got it.

    Some people know but still can’t do. Be glad you have the gutts.

    Like


  150. Here’s a study almost everyone on here will find interesting:

    Study Supports Game Concept of Pre-Selection

    Like


  151. Married women seem to deliver more complex shit tests.

    Like


  152. Dave In Hawaii,

    As someone who has married, had a very rough period in your marriage, and then recovered, would you recommend marriage to others? I know a lot of/most people don’t recommend getting married and aren’t married themselves. You are married, understand game, etc.

    What would you do if you were going to do it over? Would you recommend that anyone gets married today? What would be your recommended alternative?

    Like


  153. Thought to take advantage of the momentary lull in the action to answer a question Doug posed to me recently about The Wire:

    He asked whether it featured sexual themes. Does a bear take a dump in the woods and then commences to wipe his ass w/a fluffy white rabbit?😉

    The Wire has numerous sexual scenes depicted throughout the series, and one season in particular dealt w/what is known as “White Slavery”-the sex trade coming out of largely Eastern Europe. In fact, it was during this story arc, in Season Two, where Homicide Detective Jimmy McNulty gets to enjoy a threesome involving two hookers in a sting.

    As this is a Game-oriented forum, and one which periodically examines same from a cinematic POV, it is worth noting that The Wire has quite a bit of commentary to offer along these lines. A few quick examples will suffice.

    As mentioned above, Jimmy McNulty is kind of the Don Draper of The Wire-a streetwise, smart and boyishly goodlooking White cop who is in the midst of a fairly nasty divorce from his wife for his tomcatting ways, McNulty gets more ass than a toilet seat-or, as his partner and friend Bunk Moreland puts it, McNulty is “nut-deep in random pussy”. My favorite scene w/him along these lines is when he’s sitting in a diner in the wee hours of the morning, after a night of hard drinking and banging his car up (and hurting his hand in the process); when the waitress approaches him, who looks to be of Hispanic background, he orders coffee and scrambled eggs-and then asks can he get scrapple with that?

    Her response-“you can get anything you want”.

    Heh heh.

    Then there’s Cedric Daniels, McNulty’s CO for much of the series, and is an example of the Kind of Game I personally favor-a smart, educated and laidback Lt for the BPD, he exudes a kind of Sidney Poitieresque kind of charm that Rhonda Pearlman, Assistan District Attorney and off/on lover of McNulty, finds irresistable. Daniels’ marriage fails because his wife feels he’s not ambitious enough, but finds out she’s made a big mistake, and tries to reconcile w/him…to no avail. Daniels rebuffs her and by series’ end we see him still w/Pearlman.

    The obvious racial themes aside, please note that Daniels’ style of Game attracts Women to him-and for good reason. Aside from his poise and smarts, dedication to duty and such, Daniels, who The Wire lists as 45 years of age, looks like he was carved out of granite. He never had to do much of anything to get Pearlman-as Mike Jones would say, “she all on him”. It’s what I call the “Magentize” style of Game.

    Then there’s Dennis “Cutty” Wise, an ex con coming out of Jessup on a 14 year bid. Formerly “muscle” for the Barksdale Organization, Cutty realizes he no longer has any heart for The Game, and instead builds a boxing gym in an effort to get the boys off the corners. A good looking Man w/an easygoing demeanor, it isn’t long before many of the boys’ mothers take notice of Cutty, and hence we see yet another very important facet of Game emerge-that so many Women are so desperate for a father figure in the lives of their sons, and that a Man like Cutty fulfills this role for them, has them literally throwing the pussy at him. There are several scenes that show Cutty getting dinner plates brought to him by the Women in the neighborhood, dropping obvious hints about other things they can do to “thank” him, and so on-we even see Cutty at the houses of at least two Women during the series as a result of his efforts w/his gym. Ah, the perks.

    By season’s end, we see Cutty w/a very pretty Woman, who turns out to be his nurse while he was in the hospital healing from a gunshot wound to the leg at the hands of Marlo’s enforcer Monk.

    Just a few quick thoughts about how The Wire informs our understanding of Game.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  154. on August 15, 2009 at 10:14 am Comment_Whatever

    Marcus Aureliette said:

    See, this is where you’re wrong, in this declaration of universality. It seems to upset some guys here whenever it’s said, but there are women — a very small minority, perhaps, but nevertheless we exist — who actually are attracted to what guys here refer to as betas.

    I wouldn’t touch an alpha with a barge pole, but if your system works in achieving your goals, you go on with your bad self. The existence of a handful of outliers shouldn’t trouble anyone too much.

    It’s interesting how much doug, lurker, and Marcus Aureliette are a product of their college years. That is, lawyer school.

    But what does lurker’s experience have to do with Aureliette?

    Why everything.

    Like


  155. A thought:

    The single biggest reason why women behave the way they do is – they can get away with it.

    Humans without accountability will abuse whatever power they have.

    As long as men are delusional enough to believe that a woman can love them, care about them or give them anything that cannot be bought, they are screwed. I am just enjoying the show.

    Like


  156. — As long as men are delusional enough to believe that a woman can love them, care about them or give them anything that cannot be bought, they are screwed.

    Have you ever had an attractive young woman love you, care for you, or give you anything? If you haven’t, then your opinion on love is like that of a man who only knows the taste of sawdust opining on steak and wine.

    Whether or not love i sa delusion, I don’t kow. And I don’t care. But having it from a worthy woman feels damn good.

    — I am just enjoying the show.

    Yo keep saying that but you don’t come across as someone who enjoys much of anythng.

    Like


  157. on August 15, 2009 at 11:06 am Professional Engineer

    Dave,

    Thanks for this post. Every husband should have this for required reading. I too was in this state until my gracious neighbor, who goes by Schumpeter on this site, pointed out to me my behavior and showed me this site. The light came on and my wife and I are doing much better in our relationship. Also I am much more comfortable in social situations as I can let the real me out to brazenly stare at and flirt with beautiful women. Life is more fun lived this way. To anyone who reads this take heed for these are words of wisdom!

    Like


  158. well said PA.

    Women are irrational bitchy and whatever you want to call them.
    But damn they feel so good. Lovely little witches.

    Like


  159. Oh, Lucifer. That’s just sad.

    One thing that is fascinating me is that the commenters who have shared about their lives and relationships are reaping what we sow..

    If you approach love/sex (or life) from a negative angle (whether is be bitterness about the vagaries of love, anger against the opposite sex, a need for validation, desperation for affection, fear of being burned again), it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Dave from Hawaii was able to turn life and marriage around for himself – for that I commend him. He is now able to manage a positive day-to-day life with a passive-aggressive drama queen.. not easy! It’s interesting though that he’s been able to stay with the same person as his outlook changed from dependence and clinginess to a need to assert himself and be in control in his relationship.

    The most important thing is to first focus on yourself and not expect other people to bring you any measure of fulfillment. If you’re not happy and in control of your life when you’re on your own, you’re just going to pick the wrong people anyway.

    Like


  160. “1) be pretty
    2) be friendly and likeable (and feminine)

    Socially dominant females dont do to men what socially dominant men do to women. Men and women are different in their wants. If Meagan Fox was a library-straddling book-nerd with only 2 friends, men would be just as hot for her. They dont care if she is president of the whatever club, or got voted to the chair of whatever organization. I know some will not like hearing that, but its just the way men are hardwired.”

    Looks and femininity don’t count for a lot in many situations (unless a guy is looking for a wife, which I haven’t seen much among my peers since I am only 24). ‘Social dominance’ among women often manifests as overt sexiness and attention-getting behavior, which counts for a LOT for your average guy.

    I can’t count the cute, slim, feminine girls I have known (who are usually also more quiet and don’t dress in a provocative way) who are consistently overlooked in favor of less attractive girls who are loud, aggressively flirtatious, hard-drinking, dyed-blonde, and always have their boobs out.

    Like


  161. PA:

    Like


  162. “I can’t count the cute, slim, feminine girls I have known (who are usually also more quiet and don’t dress in a provocative way) who are consistently overlooked in favor of less attractive girls who are loud, aggressively flirtatious, hard-drinking, dyed-blonde, and always have their boobs out.”

    —if those ” cute, slim, feminine girls” don’t act like they’re going to put out or put out well (i.e. they don’t do bjs, they have a 3 date rule, etc.) then yes; if a girl wants a man to hit on her, she needs to look like the hitting on her would bear some positive fruit, and that she’s not a prude.

    But most girls have little idea what is hot and what is not, Bonnie. Many are confused. Tits hanging out is hot;dressing “properly” isn’t. You’ve been so ill informed by feminism and fags that you think the outfits the chick wear on project runway are fierce and make them look hot when they look disgusting. Or you probably think SJP and Fergie are hot women.

    Look at magazines made for straight men, not fags-and-feminists. SI swimsuit, Maxim, Hustler etc. show what we want looks wise from a woman; Vogue and Cosmo only shows women built like coat racks so that the clothes on them always look good.

    Like


  163. “He is now able to manage a positive day-to-day life with a passive-aggressive drama queen..”

    Bitch. That’s what you are.

    Like


  164. tjf knows as much about women as Barack Obama knows about running a country. he figures if lies enough about how it should be, it will become true.

    what a silly bitch.

    Like


  165. PA,

    I am sadistic. Is that not obvious? The show = people reaching the logical conclusion of their delusion and experiencing consequences of their hubris.

    I am just too cynical and rational to accept the concept of true love. If true love existed and you experienced it, why are you here? Think about that.. and why is it true?

    If you say that love is subjective and personal, why is it not a delusion.

    Like


  166. Lurker says, “Look at magazines made for straight men, not fags-and-feminists.”

    …but then cites, “SI swimsuit, Maxim, Hustler etc. show what we want looks wise from a woman; ”

    LOL!

    Dude, those are *popular* as in made *especially* for faggotized men.

    Car/biker mag chicks are more accurate for the desires of the non girlified sector of the western male population.

    Like


  167. I can’t count the cute, slim, feminine girls I have known (who are usually also more quiet and don’t dress in a provocative way) who are consistently overlooked in favor of less attractive girls who are loud, aggressively flirtatious, hard-drinking, dyed-blonde, and always have their boobs out.

    I got overlooked a lot by virtue of being a shy, introverted and not socially dominant nerdy girl. Most guys never hit on me or flirted with me, even though I didn’t dress like a nun. I was the “nice” and “cute” girl, and everyone who met me saw me as a goodie goodie who was very quiet.

    ‘Social dominance’ among women often manifests as overt sexiness and attention-getting behavior, which counts for a LOT for your average guy.

    Frankly, the average guy is not someone I can even be attracted to, so they can have their attention-getting blonde flirt. By average, I mean a guy who is typical in his thought process and emotional development. I don’t want some super rich and “alpha” guy who is a glorified trophy and ATM. That’s not someone I could love.

    Its called availability. Ceteris paribus any guy prefers an easy lay to a hard one.
    And lets be honest, cute and quite girls are not fun.

    Are you the speaker of all of mankind? Sure, the typical guy who is only interested in getting laid will think like this. But there is a sizable population of men who prefer a woman who is not an “easy lay,” at least insofar as getting her in bed initially. In a LTR a lot of very shy and quiet girls really open up and are very fun and sexual, but that part is not a guarantee, and so I guess most guys go after the girl who seems more “available” to sleep with. It’s all good though. Assortative mating.

    Like


  168. Hope,
    Glad to see you here posting, because recently Dave Alex and myself were having a conversation about Asian Women/White Male couples, and I wanted to get your views on a number of things.

    By all accounts, Asian Women seem to not have such a harsh view of “Beta” Males as do Women of other races in America. While I don’t deny the possibility of any Asian Woman being unfaithful or dishonest, etc, I maintain that Asian seem to value traits more associated w/Betas moreso than do other Women.

    What do you make of this? And, why do you think so many Asian Women so often find themselves hooked up w/White usually Beta Males? Why not other Asian Men, or Hispanic Men, or Black Men?

    Also…

    I agree w/the basic premise-guys tend to go for the easier rather than the harder lay. True, when considering a gal for LTRs the terms change somewhat. But in terms of sex, be it a one shot deal or a FWB deal, yup, guys don’t wanna have to work that hard-and ANY gal thinking she can do what’s been discussed for Men during Relationship Game Week, will soon find herself out in the cold.

    As a rule, it’s in a Woman’s best interest to be selective, but not to go too wild w/it, and this has to be carefully measured against her inherent beauty first and foremost, then her age, and finally any ancillary attributes, in that order. In a nutshell, the prettier, younger and nicer she is, will determine to what degree she can aggressively screen for potential suitors are not.

    Lastly…

    One of the problems I do have w/this venue, is that it tends to tilt a bit too much towards a certain age demographic, largely under 30. Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t have an ax to grind w/the younger set, but let’s be honst-the younger you are, be you male or female, the more superficial you are. You HAVE to be, because what real life experience do you have, especially in our helicopter parent, sanitized age? Sure, depending on who you are, you might find a gal or guy who’s wise beyond his/her years, but c’mon let’s be honest, we all know that is few and far between.

    So, I think it’s very important for us to keep in mind that when we discuss Game and related topics, to keep the age context idea in mind. Game means something radically different when you’re 25 than when you’re 40, because we’re all different people at both those ages. Just the process of living does that, whether it be for the better or for the worse.

    I’ll hold here. Holla back, and thanks.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  169. A few questions to ponder:

    1. Why are civilizations universally patriarchal? at least the ones that hung around to be written into history books.

    [editor: abstraction is testicularly modulated.]

    2. Why do people prefer civilization? or put another way, why do stone age societies suck? People often think that organized people won over the non-organized but is it really the big reason.

    [whatever happens we have got the playstation and they have not.]

    3. Why do large civilizations fail? Sure there are external factors, but they only add to the mix. Could it be that civilizations start to fail once the average man stops experiencing or believing in a better future.

    [programmed obsolescence.]

    4. Can you have anything other than a dysfunctional society if there is no “pro quid pro”. Can you motivate people by deprivation and threats? A lot of humans seem to think so, but history shows otherwise.

    [the beatings shall continue until morale improves.]

    5. Can you run a functional system based on legalism, sophism and general asshatery? Can you run a functional system with hubris ridden incompetent incestous “elite”?

    [sadly, incompetent is the only meaningful qualifier in your question.]

    6. Does technology not change the choices and possibilities such that following the old ways makes any failure even more catastrophic?

    [the revolution will be twittered.]

    Like


  170. I noticed that post about 911, where the govt ignored the threat.

    The sad thing is that nobody lost their jobs in the FBI or the CIA or the FAA or anywhere, as a result of this attack. The Congressional investigation of 911 reported, apparently approvingly, that NOBODY went outside the law or regulations to track down this plot. EVERYBODY IN THE GOVT PROTECTED THEIR PENSIONS. Heck with saving American lives.

    Well, back to game.

    Like


  171. “What do you make of this? And, why do you think so many Asian Women so often find themselves hooked up w/White usually Beta Males? Why not other Asian Men, or Hispanic Men, or Black Men?”

    The Asian (culturally – there is a large immigrant Korean and Vietnamese population where I live) women I know who have rejected the men from their own culture in favor of Americanized Asian men or white men, give one reason – they don’t like assholes.

    My good friend met her white American husband when he was stationed on a military base in her city. She married him speaking about 10 words of English – because ‘I knew I could never marry Korean guy’. From how she tells it extreme ‘alpha’ behavior is the norm over there. She’s a ballsy lady and wouldn’t stand for it, despite the fact that it got her slapped around, harassed, and once, raped as punishment.

    Like


  172. Hope,

    I have always had a huge thing for shy, nerdy, quiet, intelligent girls. A girl with standards, who dresses with a bit of modesty and is feminine, is a much more attractive than the loud mouthed, slutty club chicks you see prancing around on the weekends. A girl who is begging for constant attention with provocative clothing is not attractive beyond the allure of a quick and easy fuck. After that she is dispensable. A girl who is a challenge is much more attractive than a girl who is easy and who has fucked a ton of guys and who has lots of nasty diseases. What is he male equivalent of gina tingle? The hunt. Men love to hunt and chase. It is inbred into our genes. Give us a challenge. Make us chase after it. It drives us wild. At least that is how it works for me most of the time.

    Oh and speaking of modest girls who drive men wild with their restraint…it is so nice to see you again here Clio…my imagination is already beginning to wander.

    Like


  173. About this game stuff. Has anybody had the experience of being gamed by a woman?

    I think I was gamed for months by a woman some years ago. It worked for her, to my disadvantage. She may have been a natural, or she may have been using her psych major on me.

    She used mainly negs and intermittent reinforcement (basic Skinner box methods), making me try to win her favor by being especially nice to her and spending money on her, while knowing that she may or may not reward me for any particular effort. Never saying thank you or sorry was part of her technique.

    Before the heaping of the scorn begins, in my defense, I can say:
    1. I hadn’t found this web site. Would that I had found it before I met her. Things would have been different, to my advantage.
    2. She was beautiful.
    3. She had a body like a Brazilian soccer star (Female).
    4. She was wickedly intelligent and extremely funny.

    Anyway, Game really is just a subset of applied psychology. So, how do women game men? And, what is the proper defense? Just better male game?

    Like


  174. Have you ever had an attractive young woman love you, care for you, or give you anything?

    If you’re receiving such feelings as a beta male, it’s the golddigger effect at work. Women are simply incapable of loving or caring for a beta male out of the goodness of their heart. It’s merely an act designed to entrap the male and keep him distracted as she seeks to obtain 95% of your income.

    If you haven’t, then your opinion on love is like that of a man who only knows the taste of sawdust opining on steak and wine.

    The same steak that you can choke on while eating? The same steak that will clog your arteries and intestines?

    Like


  175. “The same steak that you can choke on while eating? The same steak that will clog your arteries and intestines?”

    DAU, are you a vegetarian?

    Take it from me – the establishment has got it wrong. Meat’s great for you.

    Like


  176. A girl who is begging for constant attention with provocative clothing is not attractive beyond the allure of a quick and easy fuck.

    Yes, but the other women are useless in a long-term relationship because you’ll cheat on them with the loud mouthed slutty club girl that you complain about. Admittedly, shy, nerdy, quiet, intelligent girls make for great female friends. Their lack of attraction gives a good shot of getting attention since there’s little male competition, and their intelligence makes for great conversations. Plus their lack of sex appeal insures that you’ll never ruin the friendship with something as stupid as sex.

    The hunt.

    Fuck the hunt.

    Like


  177. DAU, are you a vegetarian?

    No. David likes his steak.🙂

    Like


  178. By all accounts, Asian Women seem to not have such a harsh view of “Beta” Males as do Women of other races in America. While I don’t deny the possibility of any Asian Woman being unfaithful or dishonest, etc, I maintain that Asian seem to value traits more associated w/Betas moreso than do other Women.

    What do you make of this? And, why do you think so many Asian Women so often find themselves hooked up w/White usually Beta Males? Why not other Asian Men, or Hispanic Men, or Black Men?

    Asian women are said to have the lowest testosterone levels among women and are more attracted to more feminine men. They also get turned off by excessive displays of testosterone such as the Arnold Schwarzenegger type. When I was in elementary school, I had some serious crushes on guys in TV that were very androgynous looking. I was never attracted to Brad Pitt in any of his movies, but I nursed a long crush on nerdy Matt Damon after Good Will Hunting. Nerdy intelligence is glorified in Asian culture, and so a very high IQ guy who is a bit shy and nice is .

    In Japan, schoolgirls to older women alike love Yaoi — “a popular term for female-oriented fictional media that focus on homoerotic or homoromantic male relationships, usually created by female authors.” I also like to read Japanese manga which often feature very sensitive men, who profess their undying love to women and who are often drawn to look kind of girly. I think many eastern Asian women are actually turned on by this kind of thing. This could also be due to some cultural cues when young, because purportedly many America-born Asians don’t have this same kind of attraction.

    The Asian (culturally – there is a large immigrant Korean and Vietnamese population where I live) women I know who have rejected the men from their own culture in favor of Americanized Asian men or white men, give one reason – they don’t like assholes.

    From how she tells it extreme ‘alpha’ behavior is the norm over there. She’s a ballsy lady and wouldn’t stand for it, despite the fact that it got her slapped around, harassed, and once, raped as punishment.

    There is some of this, yes. My father was a major asshole and chauvinist. There’s an attitude among Asian men that they are entitled to cheat on their women, and that their women just have to take it without saying anything. Slapping a woman, insulting her, yelling at her, etc. are the norm there, and hell, killing female newborns is rampant. The entire culture is set up to put women on bottom, and so when Asia-born women come to America they often look for a man who is gentlemanly and would not treat her this way. Again if you look at all the Asian romance novels and mangas written by women, they all describe “beta” romantic behavior, a guy who does not cheat on the girl, etc.

    My ex was yelling at me and becoming more and more of an asshole macho jerk as time went on. The more this went on the less I became attracted to him. All the negativity was really a turn off. Incidentally I also hated it when he kept a beard, which is a stereotypically high testosterone display, so when I left him he bragged about how he can have a full beard again. When I saw him again later, he looked more “manly,” but it was a huge turn-off to me. He also yelled at my mom when she came with me to the old apartment I lived in, and basically tried to call the cops on her because she wanted to look through the apartment for some of the stuff she left with me. Later she told me that my ex looked like an “animal,” and that it was good I left.

    Like


  179. Oops, above should be “a very high IQ guy who is a bit shy and nice is very attractive to more traditional Asian girls.”

    Like


  180. Bonnie,

    Asian women want a man who has more “perceived” status, more so than any other group I have seen. They are the ultimate gold-diggers.

    Since east-asians look up to whites, a third rate white man has more perceived status than a first rate east-asian guy.

    Like


  181. joel,

    It happened because you never asked yourself the most important question:

    What is in it for ME?

    Because if you are not getting anything that you want out of it, what is the point.

    Like


  182. a third rate white man has more perceived status than a first rate east-asian guy.

    The white guy with no education is perceived as far worse than an Asian guy with a Ph.D. The white guy only has more status if he has high IQ and an “Asian-parent approved profession” i.e. law, medicine, or some other profession requiring a post-graduate degree. They place extreme emphasis on education, hence why all the Asian women ending up with nerdy white guys.

    Like


  183. Hope,

    That is often the case, but face it- it is about status not cleverness.

    All things being equal, asian women would prefer a white guy over an asian guy, even if both guys were born in the same hospital and had identical life trajectories.

    Like


  184. “—if those ” cute, slim, feminine girls” don’t act like they’re going to put out or put out well (i.e. they don’t do bjs, they have a 3 date rule, etc.) then yes; if a girl wants a man to hit on her, she needs to look like the hitting on her would bear some positive fruit, and that she’s not a prude.

    But most girls have little idea what is hot and what is not, Bonnie. Many are confused. Tits hanging out is hot;dressing “properly” isn’t. You’ve been so ill informed by feminism and fags that you think the outfits the chick wear on project runway are fierce and make them look hot when they look disgusting. Or you probably think SJP and Fergie are hot women.

    Look at magazines made for straight men, not fags-and-feminists. SI swimsuit, Maxim, Hustler etc. show what we want looks wise from a woman; Vogue and Cosmo only shows women built like coat racks so that the clothes on them always look good.”

    I was merely countering Z’s point that guys want looks and friendliness, whether or not they are librarian types or ‘socially dominant’. Truth: Megan Fox is ‘socially dominant’ (sex symbol, and successful in acting and promoting herself in the press by banking on her sexiness) because she presents herself as sexually available and enhances her looks (makeup, breast implants, posing). She could easily make herself less desirable to the majority of men by wearing glasses, less makeup, less revealing clothes and not making sexyface all the time. But she wouldn’t be any less technically beautiful. She’s got a great face and a good body, but it’s possible to deemphasize those things.
    Furthermore, in personality she is a very ‘unfeminine’ woman. Lots of cursing, nothing coy about her. I bet she fucks like a man.

    The girls I mentioned are not looking to get laid, they are looking for quality boyfriends (with an eye to getting married).

    I think women with beautiful faces (I have always been in line with his ideas of female facial beauty, although I’m even more picky than him), and slim figures with defined waists are ‘hot’. Fergie and SJP are unfortunate. But it’s not just women who think they are attractive – Matthew Broderick

    And I would like to say, I have a figure that would not look out of place on the runway (although I am an hourglass, nota ruler), and I still get plenty of play. When I reject them, they call me ‘anorexic’ instead of ‘fat bitch’. Men aren’t monolithic, they like a variety of bodies, from super-thin to pretty fat.

    Like


  185. Asian girls (in America) still seek providers, as feminism has not infected their more insular immigrant cultures, unlike non-asian ones, which have abandoned teaching girls to search for providers, replacing the ideal instead with “grrl-power” do it yourself nonsense.

    Jewish culture, at least non-secular Jewish culture (i.e. Orthodox, conservative, etc.) , is the same way. The old Space Balls joke about “Druish princesses always being attracted to money and power” still holds true; however, these communities are more exclusionary to non-Jews than most asian-immigrant communities.

    recent immigrant girls/groups also fall into these categories, as their unfamiliarity with the culture makes them hesitant to step out without a provider male around.

    Its why I have advocated to some of my friends, and myself in beta moments, that when searching for a girlfriend, a girl of recent Mexican-immigration is a solid bet, as are Polish (NY), or the above mentioned insular comminuty ones (Jewish/Asian). Basically, if the group she comes from is not fully assimilated into U.S. culture, a beta can find a girl who likes his provider-beta role.

    Of course, some guys just aren’t attracted to many of those groups. And many have problems dating outside their race. But I think for a beta struggling with game, far better to have a girl who has been trained to like providers and may be kept in line by her cultural norms than to become Sodini.

    This, I believe, is intrinsinctly why many prefer foreign brides; we instinctively understand they will depend on us if in our culture, because it is unfamiliar waters.

    Like


  186. Bonnie wrote…
    “Dave from Hawaii was able to turn life and marriage around for himself – for that I commend him. He is now able to manage a positive day-to-day life with a passive-aggressive drama queen.. not easy!”

    First, DFH has hardly given enough evidence to draw the conclusion that his wife is a PA drama queen. So setting aside that issue… I have seen various degrees of PA behavior in many past girlfriends and was totally mystified by it. I would point it out to them and the dumber ones would say “whatever” and continue to act in the same way. The more intellectual types would see my point, agree its bad and even be grateful that I pointed it out to them — and then act as if they said “whatever”.

    Thanks to game, I now see why this had to be the case. PA behavior arises in a superior/subordinate or leader/follower relations and is a way for the subordinate to correct, modify or change the superior in a way that does not challenge his authority. Contrary to pop-psychology there is nothing *inherently* neurotic or dysfunctional about PA behavior unless it becomes extreme or a defense mechanism. Everyone use PA behavior to some degree particularly in employer/employee relations. If your boss is about to make a dumb move you don’t announce it to the whole office and call him an idiot (assuming you respect him and want to keep your job). You use subtle questioning, non-cooperation and other indirect ways to make your point — *without challenging his authority*. The same principle applies to male/female relations.

    I see now that my failure to take the lead and treating my partner as an “equal” was the *cause* of the PA behavior in past girlfriends. I cringe when I read DFH’s descriptions of his former beta-self because I was in the same trap and had the same experiences. In retrospect, I was failing shit-tests left and right and had no clue whatsoever. The harder I tried to resolve conflicts and have “open” communication and discuss things rationally the worse things would get. And the worst of it is these are the things that women *claim* to want in a relationship but it is just not true. (Hint: do NOT take relationship advice from a woman).

    Its taken me a long time to see that women do not want to be equals in a relationship — regardless of what they *say*. Its a subconscious thing but the essence of the male/female relationship is leader/follower. When a man fails to lead in the relationship it puts psychological pressure on the female that leads to the PA behavior, arguments and contempt. The contempt a woman feels for a beta is the same contempt that a man would feel for a boss who refuses to lead, make the tough choices and tries to manages by “consensus”.

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  187. Bonnie, all women are passive-aggressive drama queens. The trick is (for those seeking LTR) to find one you can tame. Obviously Dave has, and has tamed her well.

    I heard a lion tamer say once that you don’t really force a lion to do anything–you’ll get killed; you just observe how the cat acts and make it want to do the tricks, distracting it and toying with it until it regresses to kittenhood.

    Food for though.

    Like


  188. Hope,
    Thanks for the response. Although I’m an adult-lifelong beard wearer (actually, a goatee) I am appalled by your ex’s behavior towards both you and especially your mom’s. Smh

    As for the other points you made, hmm, makes sense to me, and explains a lot. From all that I can tell, Asian Women appear to be a bit more dutiful and faithful than the othr groups, but I I don’t want to stereotype here too much.

    As for “over aggressive high T displays” I suppose the perceptions, real or imagined, about Black Men insofar as Asian Women go, must indeed have some truth to them. Hmm. Personally-please forgive me for saying this-I’ve always seen most Asian Women as simply being too fragile for me sexually, although I feel this way about many White Women as well.

    Anyway, thanks again.

    O

    Like


  189. Hope said – “Asian women are said to have the lowest testosterone levels among women and are more attracted to more feminine men. They also get turned off by excessive displays of testosterone such as the Arnold Schwarzenegger type. When I was in elementary school, I had some serious crushes on guys in TV that were very androgynous looking. I was never attracted to Brad Pitt in any of his movies, but I nursed a long crush on nerdy Matt Damon after Good Will Hunting. Nerdy intelligence is glorified in Asian culture, and so a very high IQ guy who is a bit shy and nice is .

    In Japan, schoolgirls to older women alike love Yaoi — “a popular term for female-oriented fictional media that focus on homoerotic or homoromantic male relationships, usually created by female authors.” I also like to read Japanese manga which often feature very sensitive men, who profess their undying love to women and who are often drawn to look kind of girly. I think many eastern Asian women are actually turned on by this kind of thing. This could also be due to some cultural cues when young, because purportedly many America-born Asians don’t have this same kind of attraction.”

    Interesting theory that high-T women are drawn to high-T men.

    I had similar experiences growing up – I have always been attracted to androgyny and intelligence, from the very earliest crushes I can remember (Johnny Depp in What’s Eating Gilbert Grape was a trans formative sexual experience for me, age 10).

    When it comes to sexual attraction I like my men and women the same – slim build, pretty faces, little body hair, short head hair, full lips, and a confident but sweet personality. My taste haven’t changed since I was a little girl.. maybe because I still look like a little girl.

    Like


  190. Bonnie, Bonnie, bonnie:

    “Truth: Megan Fox is ’socially dominant’ (sex symbol, and successful in acting and promoting herself in the press by banking on her sexiness) because she presents herself as sexually available and enhances her looks (makeup, breast implants, posing).”
    —You’ve got it backwards. Guys would want to fuck her if she were the mechanic down the street, or a waitress. She is an attractive woman; what she does for a living (outside of being a sex worker) doesn’t compute on the want-to-fuck scale.

    Megan Fox is a sex symbol because she is hot. She is not socially dominant; she is merely the it girl of the moment.

    “She could easily make herself less desirable to the majority of men by wearing glasses, less makeup, less revealing clothes and not making sexyface all the time. But she wouldn’t be any less technically beautiful.”
    –but far less skanky looking, which is what men want: her image is that of a vixen wearing skanky clothes who will do you.

    “Furthermore, in personality she is a very ‘unfeminine’ woman. Lots of cursing, nothing coy about her. I bet she fucks like a man.”
    —-Take a poll of the men who want to fuck her: 99% have no idea she swears or care what her personality is. She looks feminie.

    “The girls I mentioned are not looking to get laid, they are looking for quality boyfriends (with an eye to getting married).”
    —thus why men pass them over for women who look like they want to fuck…right now…in the bathroom.

    “I think women with beautiful faces (I have always been in line with his ideas of female facial beauty, although I’m even more picky than him), and slim figures with defined waists are ‘hot’”
    —once again, no one cares what feministas and fags think are hot in women.

    . “Fergie and SJP are unfortunate. But it’s not just women who think they are attractive – Matthew Broderick”
    —is a closet fairy who married horse face as a beard.

    “And I would like to say, I have a figure that would not look out of place on the runway (although I am an hourglass, nota ruler), and I still get plenty of play.”
    —snort.

    “When I reject them, they call me ‘anorexic’ instead of ‘fat bitch’. Men aren’t monolithic, they like a variety of bodies, from super-thin to pretty fat.”
    —-lol. Nope. Male attraction is universal on body type. its females who differentiate.

    Like


  191. on August 15, 2009 at 5:14 pm Cannon's Canon

    It is difficult for me to find value in Hope’s posts, considering her current choice of man.

    Like


  192. I suspect Asian girls go with white men in large part for their (white male) larger stature compared to Asian men. Short stature in men, in some Asians cultures, like China, is an extremely negative physical trait.

    We had a Chinese graduate medical doctor studying for a few weeks with us. He was getting his specialty training in the USA. He told us that, due to his short stature, (he was a bit short by Chinese standards) he had no hope of marrying a suitable wife in China. Just wouldn’t happen. He wasn’t bad looking.

    So, if a Chinese woman wants tall sons, marrying white is not a bad option. White guys seem like easy prey to Asian women.

    Of course “white guys” are always US citizens. Look at the Tiger Lady who married Murdock.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendi_Deng

    This short summary leaves out getting out of China with a missionary couple, after the wife had to leave early because of illness. She broke up that marriage. Then she married some engineer or something for his green card. Then she married the big boss, breaking up his marriage. The engineer still loves her, doesn’t resent her at all, and just wishes she would come back. Alpha or beta? Pretty obvious. Lucky beta I would say. (Lucky he met her and lucky she left him.)

    No, they don’t come any sweeter than Asian girls.

    I don’t understand, BTW, why Asians don’t give their children GH to get a few extra inches of stature. Those few extra inches would likely do a lot of good for them.

    Like


  193. have you checked out this guy’s story? he gets laid left and right

    http://modeone.net/archives/M1-Backstory.html

    Like


  194. @lurker:

    “a girl of recent Mexican-immigration is a solid bet”

    In Latin cultures there’s this thing called “Machismo.”

    It’s like game, but it also involves protecting and providing the woman you’re married to, your daughters, etc.

    http://www.zonalatina.com/Zldata77.htm

    Some like to call machismo,”male chauvinism,” but others view it as being a manly man, being the head of the household, disciplining your children, protecting your family at all costs, etc.

    Quote from website:

    “Some of my male Mexican friends … objected to my basically negative description of machismo. They pointed out that the higher one goes socially in Mexico the more positive the influence of machismo. They equated machismo with masculine values and behavior that are the epitome of idealized manhood. They see the truly macho man as one who supports and protects his family in the face of all odds, who disciplines his children to be upright, honest and hardworking. Upper-class Mexican men, they continued, see this positive side of machismo as one of the most admirable facets of Mexican culture. In their view, Mexican-style machismo is a key factor in the molding and sustaining of the family and personal relationships; as the source of the discipline that instills courtesy and high moral standards in their children.” (de Mente (1996), p. 175)

    Like


  195. About asian girls and stuff: I’ve been living in China and Japan for several years, and Asian girls DESPISE beta guys here, even more than in the West.
    I can’t talk about Asian americans, but in their countries, the bitch shield is as high as everywhere.
    The difference is what constitutes Alphaness. In China its money, plain and simple. Asshole game works just as well, but you need money to back it up. Being foreign its a different game altogether, but you can see that the hottest (very damned hot) girls are with ugly old bastards.

    In Japan alphaness is more nuanced, more like an indifferent aloofness. That and being tall and slim. Japanese guys in general give a shit about everything except their job, don’t listen to girls’ shit and despise them very much, so the more you ignore them the more alpha you are. No cocky funny though, they’re serious people.

    Like


  196. “here is some of this, yes. My father was a major asshole and chauvinist. There’s an attitude among Asian men that they are entitled to cheat on their women, and that their women just have to take it without saying anything. ”

    very true in China, especially provincial. Big cities are getting more SWPLized recently, though.

    Love the attitude though. Those guys really don’t give a shit.

    Like


  197. Hope,

    Is it male chauvinism really true for all Asian cultures? For example in Schenzen or Chongqing, it is quite apparent. But in Shanghai, I can see the gradation within the city. In Pudong for example, it is almost western – even starting to get SWPL-ish. But further out in the industrial suburbs (my stomping ground where I outsource your jobs to) it is more like the other Chinese cities. I think perhaps it depends on affluence and duration of exposure to western culture, which has been present just across the river from Pudong for nearly a century now.

    Since I’m good looking but just under 6’0″, I don’t really stand out on the meat market in America. But in China they do literally flock to me. There’s pictures of me dancing with several hot women at the same time with my head towering over the entire crowd. I guess there’s even ‘gina tingle’ when I converse with them and it becomes evident that I have about as strong of a parent-approved and provider ‘quality-man’ background that you can get.

    But yet, I still see game at work big time. Many of them are quite frank with their intentions and desires. Several have told me that they are attracted to “arrogant” white men. What I think they mean by “arrogant” is “cocky but funny” but they don’t know how to say that. I see the desire for confident white men in Chinese women stateside too but there’s less of a mystique about being white here(I live in a neighborhood that’s about 25% Chinese). Perhaps they assume overseas that you’re like the white guys they see in movies whereas here you have to prove it.

    I’ve thought about moving overseas for a professional and business reasons and I think it’d be good for the kids. I’m married and I’m probably going to want to continue to have a couple women on the side. I wonder how taboo that is to have there. Does anyone have any experience with that?

    Like


  198. forgot about this one
    @Hope
    “In a LTR a lot of very shy and quiet girls really open up and are very fun and sexual, but that part is not a guarantee”

    True, I’ve had the experience. But it takes quite a lot of time, and as you said you never know, so it’s a big gamble. I speak for no one, but all guys like good sex, and being shy and quiet doesn’t help. Hell, girls like loud and cocky alphas, why are guys suppose to like shy girls? Same principle works both ways.

    Like


  199. “very true in China, especially provincial. Big cities are getting more SWPLized recently, though.”

    100% agree. Chicks over there are getting into “yoga” and “art” and crap like that as hobbies. They still are quite warm and charming though – almost jaw dropping on the personality scale, except in Pudong. Every couple years the culture there shifts so much that it’s amazing… it’s one of the most explosive changes to a country in the history of man. America seems so small now – a future footnote in history.

    I know some successful Chinese men stateside that have married beautiful blonde high-IQ professional wives. But in 3-4 years in they are all having women on the side. Few of the really successful Chinese men I know do not do this. But then again, this is true of successful good-looking American men too. I’ve noticed that good looking white women who are smart like successful asian men too. I know even my wife (back when she was a 9) had a crush on a couple asian men too.

    Like


  200. @JerrDogg

    China’s been a polygamous society for thousands of years, no Communism revolution nor shit can change that. Its on their blood. The government is fighting hard against it (some judge last year made a mistress pay an indemnity to the wife of her lover!!) but it isn’t changing anytime soon.

    Fuck Pudong. Fuck Shanghai anyway; Shanghai guys are the worst beta chumps ever, and Shanghai women have been known to be cunts for decades in the whole country. They aren’t especially hot anyway. Just get a half-hour ride to Suzhou and find some nice cute girls.

    Like


  201. You suck. Go burn in a fire faggot.

    Like


  202. My dong is the size of a truck.

    Like


  203. on August 15, 2009 at 6:50 pm The Fifth Horseman

    America seems so small now – a future footnote in history.

    Well, not so fast. While the ‘West + Japan’ is certainly in decline, America will be the last country standing among this group, and the last to see a large drop. America is the only Western + Japan country with birth rates at replacement levels, and with an ability to assimilate immigrants, however imperfectly, to a greater degree than Europe.

    China has a fertility rate lower than America, BTW.

    So while the ‘West’ will decline in importance dramatically, the US is more resistant than any other Western + Japan country.

    Like


  204. Bonnie,

    Do you have any clue about the magnitude of testosterone difference (including unbound testosterone) between men and women.

    Men = ~ 15-30 nmol/L

    Women = ~ 1 nmol/L

    Factor in SHBG (google it!) and the lack of significant amounts of estrogen in men. There are no physiologically high-T women… Stop comparing hills to mountains.

    Like


  205. The Fifth Horseman,

    Wishing does not make it so. If a series of events can make the system more realistic.. it will be ok. If not.. it’s over.

    Like


  206. > China has a fertility rate lower than America, BTW.

    True, but what’s the fertility rate of SWPLs? Is the US the same if it is all Mormons, Mexicans, and trailer trash in the future? When I turn on the radio it’s a bunch of mariachi music already.

    Like


  207. What are some ways to naturally increase testosterone production other than weight training?

    Like


  208. What is American to you? In 50 years the minority will probably overrun everything along with the fat fucks. The America you know will be totally different and unrecognizable. At least in China and Japan they will all look similar, since they have strict immigration. You are delusional to think that US will be the last one to change under these shit policies. Why do you think conservatives care about immigration so much? They don’t want the filth to infect their race.

    Like


  209. Totally bullshit Bonnie.

    Asian women are attracted to testosterone. That is why if you’re a foreigner and a SOLDIER they will hop into bed after a sip of a drink.

    I have observed this first hand. I still remember this solid full Jap 8 ignoring me for this Columbian who had a huge dick. She banged him 3-4 times a day, did anal and other sexual requests on demand. He didn’t even finish high school, no car, had a shit job and lived in a shitty apartment. Total opposite of me.. He even had a gut going cuz of all the booze.

    Funny thing is after having “fun” with him for 3 months she wanted to get back with me and my high class friends. LOL Too bad she didn’t realize I was a jerk too and had a few FBs on the side. She def thought she could manipulate me into becoming the beta boyfriend/husband.

    Like


  210. Huck Finn,

    Androgel.. comes to about 50$/month.

    I just suggested you the lazy approach..

    Like


  211. Yeah, fuck that noise. I’d rather just get on the sauce. In fact, I would be juicing if I could afford a cycle, but that shit is expensive if you go through a reliable source.

    Like


  212. Bonnie

    The Asian (culturally – there is a large immigrant Korean and Vietnamese population where I live) women I know who have rejected the men from their own culture in favor of Americanized Asian men or white men, give one reason – they don’t like assholes.

    That may well be how they put it but I don’t think that’s actually the best way for guys here to think about it.

    I think here there are similarities to what attracts Eastern Euro women to American or other Western men, leaving aside money, which is less of an issue these days anyway.

    They’re both looking for less authoritarian and more companiate, life partnership men. At the same time the American guys are often looking for less feminist women. Often they find a happy place together which is at sort of feminism light. Or America circa 1964. Sounds good to me.

    (Second generation Italian girls can be great for that too.)

    Like


  213. on August 15, 2009 at 7:43 pm The Fifth Horseman

    JerrDog,

    True, but what’s the fertility rate of SWPLs? Is the US the same if it is all Mormons, Mexicans, and trailer trash in the future? When I turn on the radio it’s a bunch of mariachi music already.

    But we WANT SWPL birthrates to be low. They are the cause of most problems that make America bad. I’d take Mexicans over SWPLs, if given a choice.

    White Republicans (conservative and moderates) and Asians are actually higher than 2.0. And not just Mormons, I mean mainstream white (and Asian) conservatives. Sarah Palin : 5, Rick Santorum : 6, Bobby Jindal : 3, Lynn Cheney : 4, Jeb Bush : 3, Eric Cantor : 3, Michelle Malkin : 2.

    I know tons of white Republicans families with 3 kids, and they aren’t devout Christians either. They work at normal jobs.

    US fertility trends are not so bad. The worst group (SWPLs) are vanishing. The highest fertility group (Hispanics) has a lot of problems, but are still better than SWPLs with regards to feminism, the military, gay rights, etc.

    Like


  214. Huck Finn,

    Just get a compliant doctor to prescribe you something like androgel. While doctors are wary of anabolic steroids, testosterone gel is safer (liver), has less abuse potential and the amount of hormone per application is about the same as what your body would produce.

    Since you are doing 1+1 rather than the 1+10 that most bodybuilder types do, long term side effects are minimal.

    Like


  215. Shit I don’t care about: what Mandy! Xd says.

    “In Latin cultures there’s this thing called “Machismo.”

    It’s like game, but it also involves protecting and providing the woman you’re married to, your daughters, etc.”
    —Wow, hispanics have Machismo? Who KNEW? Thank you for the cultural enlightment. Tell me, does Chinese food come with fortune cookies, too?

    Mexican chicks of recent family immigration still do go for provider types who are non-Mexican; they actually will shit test less on machismo, seeing as you’re “not Mexican” and can’t be expected to live up to Mexican ideals (or latino—which is a bullshit term anyway, nto surprised a SWPLer obama worshipper like you believes in it).

    Similarly, a chinese bf gets more shit than a non-Chinese to a chinese girl; if he’s culturally ignorant of what he’s supposed to do, he’s screwed; the non-chinese will get a pass (assuming he’s non-asian).

    So, bitch, my point holds, and yours fold as irrelevant.

    Like


  216. It’s also one reason black guys like dating non-black girls; black girls will call a black man on his shit, while a non-black girl might give him a pass, seeing as she is “unfamiliar” with his culture.

    Like


  217. Bonnie and Hope,

    I think you two might be closet lesbos. A night with Racer X, either all three of us together at the same time (you both seem like you might like to be with another chick too, given your aesthetic tastes in the opposite sex and I certainly would not object to that) or each one of you on a separate night, will cure you of your desire for androgynous men. And even if such an occasion does not totally cure you, then you will at least have a “transformative” experience of true and everlasting proportions: a total and complete fuck at my hands. I can guarantee both of you that after a night with me you will never again look at your sweet, sissy, androgynous girlie boys the same way.

    Like


  218. on August 15, 2009 at 8:41 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    It’s also one reason black guys like dating non-black girls;

    Only if the non-black girl is also obese. Obesity is the first priority of the black man, as they want their women to resemble the largest beasts of Africa (elephant, hippo, rhino, cape buffalo) in size, shape, color, and texture.

    Like


  219. Hope

    a third rate white man has more perceived status than a first rate east-asian guy.

    The white guy with no education is perceived as far worse than an Asian guy with a Ph.D. The white guy only has more status if he has high IQ and an “Asian-parent approved profession” i.e. law, medicine, or some other profession requiring a post-graduate degree. They place extreme emphasis on education, hence why all the Asian women ending up with nerdy white guys.

    Guys, don’t listen to Hope. I can tell you from experience that Chinese women respond to game in exactly the same way white women do.

    The thing is, white guys don’t really understand Asian standards, because it takes time to appreciate what constitutes beauty in a different race.

    For her part, Hope is pretty plain for a Chinese girl. Maybe she can make up for that with some skill in bed, but that would be speculation — she isn’t that good-looking.

    As Chinese guys will tell you, white men will frequently fall for sub-par Chinese women, thinking them far more desirable than they really are. This is the same thing you see with black guys falling for clearly inferior white women. I remember bringing a beautiful Chinese girl home one night in Beijing, and when my Chinese neighbor saw this, his eyes widened, showing he was both surprised and impressed. He said to me: “This is not bad. You are really learning something about China.”

    Of course, in Beijing there were women from all over the world to sample. Some of the Russian girls working there would absolutely blow your mind, and I even had an Arab girlfriend for a while who had gained some notoriety for her belly-dancing. I promptly left her when she started suggesting I should marry her. Hell, maybe I should have — she couldn’t have been worse than my cheerleader American ex-wife, and she was a far sexier dancer.

    So an Asian woman can get a white guy to treat her like a princess when she would have been just another run-of-the-mill girl in her own culture. Hope is lucky to have found her nerd boyfriend, with whom she plays WoW. She couldn’t do nearly so well in her ancestral land.

    Like


  220. For the ladies of the thread:

    When I said:
    1) Be pretty

    2) Be nice

    …………I didn’t mean you could not dress sexy or even slutty. What I meant was that you didn’t have to be a “queen bee” with a large social group, barking orders at underlings. You could be a pretty “loner” girl who was new in town and didn’t know anybody yet. Men wont care. If you are pretty and nice, believe me, he will give you an honest chance. He wont look at you as a “pump-and-dump” just because you dont have a large roster of friends and professional alllies. Men are not attracted by the same things women are.

    If you want the truth, if you are pretty and have a nice in-shape body, and are a sweetheart………………..he will file you away in his mind as: “marriage material, would be a good mother to my children, and wont be a pain in the ass, and will generally be pleasant to spend my life with”. Im a man ladies, I have lots of male friends. Im not kidding you or trying to tell you something untrue so you try it and fail for my personal amusement or anything. I was just calling one as I see it. You can disagree with that, and thats fine. The most intresting discussions often are disagreements. I didn’t say be a dishrag and not stick up for yourself, or let anybody walk all over you. But I am telling you that a woman being socially “dominant” isn’t nearly as attractive to a man as it is to a woman.

    I’d —-RATHER—-Meagan Fox be a goody-2-shoes librarian who was “looking to explore her secret wild side”. That would make her sexier than she already is.

    By The Way…………………On why men hit on chicks dressed like sluts: Becuase they look like they are easy lays AND if she IS a slut, he wont have any conscience pangs about pumping and dumping her. Yes, men have consciences. We try and hide it, but having sisters and moms must imbibe it in us through genetics somehow.

    Like


  221. on August 15, 2009 at 8:57 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Welmer wrote :

    This is the same thing you see with black guys falling for clearly inferior white women.

    This is an extremely well-known fact, as are the reasons for it.

    Like


  222. on August 15, 2009 at 9:01 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Welmer,

    I wonder how quickly globalization is erasing the race premium/race handicaps that have traditionally existed, and still exist.

    White guy going for average Chinese girl
    Hot chinese girl going for average white guy
    Black guy going for obese white women (but this is hard-wired).
    Asian guy elevating the importance of blonde women (but not getting them).

    Globalization should erode some of these arbitrage instances. Thus the real losers will be a) black women and b) Asian men. Of course, black women can lose weight and Asian men can learn Game, but in each case, that is a tall order to expect.

    Like


  223. Today is a good day.

    Gym in the morning. Dumbells upper body workout. I had the freeweights room all to myself except for some young advanced-looking guy doing his thing on the opposite end of the room. Hard rock with lots of power ballads playing loudly on the wall-apeakers. I had my first ever weight-training high. It feels similar to the runners’ highs I had as a runner in my teens.

    Casual social event in the mid-day with lots of people I didn’t know. I looked fucking cool in the shirt my wife bought me a few days ago. Girls flocked to me, adoring my boy. Good food, beer, fun conversations. Ran low-intensity Game on the women there, just for fun, to make the girls laugh. Ever so slightly let my barely-perceptible Slavic accent come out. In my teens, I was mortified by it… today I know how to work it. Two girls got the “bright eyes” as they looked at me. One dude’s wife was a little too happy to talk to me, so I moved on. Respect my fellow man.

    Late afternoon at home: played John Denver, Scorpions “Still Lovin You” and Bob Seger “Still the Same” and sang along as my three-month-old son looked at me, sometimes transfixed, sometimes making those baby-smiles. But at no point did he stop looking straight into my eyes. This is an undescribably sublime feeling.

    Evening: caught up some good Obsidian-Doug comments on the Wire and saw that Rum expresses my thoughts exactly on the soullessnes of cats.

    About 15 minutes from now: a buddy is swinging by; we’ll practice some guitar and drink beers.

    I thought earlier today: this is happiness. And while God has a way letting difficulties and harm challenge us — He likes balance and doesn’t like complacency — I am not in the least afraid. What I have now is reward for the suffering I endured during various periods in my twenties. This is earned.

    Like


  224. Mu’Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Globalization should erode some of these arbitrage instances. Thus the real losers will be a) black women and b) Asian men. Of course, black women can lose weight and Asian men can learn Game, but in each case, that is a tall order to expect.

    Actually, I am working on a theory about this right now. I don’t know how long it will take me to write it up, but I should have something to offer within a few days.

    BTW, the Chinese are pretty good at keeping the truly hot Chinese girls, and having been to a few high class establishments in Beijing, I can tell you that the truly hot Chinese women are pretty spectacular.

    Of course, they don’t beat our best (white girls have a slight edge in physique), but they sure kick the hell out of your typical white guy’s Asian bride.

    Like


  225. on August 15, 2009 at 9:12 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Of course, they don’t beat our best (white girls have a slight edge in physique), but they sure kick the hell out of your typical white guy’s Asian bride.

    I often find that this is a high-income Asian girl (MBA, doctor, etc.). This is an instance of a white guy marrying a woman with much higher income. The guy is often a herb too.

    Like


  226. PA

    Today is a good day[…]

    I thought earlier today: this is happiness. And while God has a way letting difficulties and harm challenge us — He likes balance and doesn’t like complacency — I am not in the least afraid. What I have now is reward for the suffering I endured during various periods in my twenties. This is earned.

    That is a great thing to read, PA. Enjoy your time with your baby boy. Revel in your health and happiness.

    But never forget that it all hangs on a thin string.

    Like


  227. Obsidian says, “As a rule, it’s in a Woman’s best interest to be selective, but not to go too wild w/it, and this has to be carefully measured against her inherent beauty first and foremost, then her age, and finally any ancillary attributes, in that order. In a nutshell, the prettier, younger and nicer she is, will determine to what degree she can aggressively screen for potential suitors are not.”

    If anything, this is a good reason to take one’s self off the general market and become super selective, the further one is from “ideal”.

    No woman should *ever* bank her future on the fickle, feminized western men today.

    IMO, “ugly” girls shouldn’t even have casual sex. Once you know that for either social or so-called “objective” reasons, you’re being devalued, you should not play a game in which you are a loser by default.

    If a woman’s looks are the be-all and end-all of her value to men in general, she’d do best not to be available at all to the general kind of men.

    Z says, “What I meant was that you didn’t have to be a “queen bee” with a large social group, barking orders at underlings. You could be a pretty “loner” girl who was new in town and didn’t know anybody yet. Men wont care. If you are pretty and nice, believe me, he will give you an honest chance. He wont look at you as a “pump-and-dump” just because you dont have a large roster of friends and professional alllies.”

    Bullshit. I’ve lived it. The more sought after you are in general, the *worse* they will do you if you don’t have many allies, and therefore present a dangerous deterrent to being pumped and dumped.

    The two disposable guys could have gone on for much longer if they hadn’t met some of my allies and realized they were in deep doo-doo.

    Like


  228. on August 15, 2009 at 9:34 pm aussie girl in australia

    Regarding the asian women/white men thing:

    Few years a go while at uni I was sharing a house with a Japanese student. A girl who had come over to Australia to learn english. Her non-official reason was to find a nice Australian man to go out with and then marry.

    She would go out to clubs with her friends (other Japanese girls) and would not have much luck. She would often complain that the white guys who talked to her thought they could pay her for sex! I tried to guide her about what clubs NOT to visit.

    One day I asked her, why does she want an Australian guy so much? Why not Japanese?
    First reason she gave was that Japanese guys cannot make a decision and just keep asking the girl to tell them what to do. Second reason she gave was that she did not want to be in a marriage like her sister and mothers. Her sister had to bow to her husband when he came home from work, bring him beer, pour it for him and put on his slippers. She did not want this.
    Finally, later when we were at a resteraunt and had a few drinks, she said it was because Japanese guys had little dicks. The comparison she gave was the straw next to the cup in terms of girth.

    Just reporting what I was told.

    BTW, she did end up with a white guy but he wasn’t Australian, he was Swedish! Very cute and dominant personality though.

    Like


  229. Nicole,

    How can you look at yourself in the mirror each day and not feel sick?

    Like


  230. aussie girl,

    Your future is going to include sucking Chinese dick. Get used to it.

    Like


  231. Mu’Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin:

    Of course, black women can lose weight and Asian men can learn Game, but in each case, that is a tall order to expect.

    I think that we’re prone to conjure up images of fat, black women because of the socioeconomic link. Someone cited a NY Times article that stated Harlem was the fattest part of NY oweing to the fact that it’s a low income area. I don’t think blacks are genetically predisposed to obesity.

    Like


  232. racial stats of obesity in US:

    http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/race_class/othergirlsstuff.html

    as with every single bad social indicator, remove blacks and hispanics you have a significantly smaller “problem”

    Like


  233. on August 15, 2009 at 10:04 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    I think that we’re prone to conjure up images of fat, black women because of the socioeconomic link. Someone cited a NY Times article that stated Harlem was the fattest part of NY oweing to the fact that it’s a low income area. I don’t think blacks are genetically predisposed to obesity.

    Even middle-class black women are obese.

    East Africans, perhaps not, but West Africans are definitely prone to obesity. This is also encouraged by black men, due to their hard-wring from their days in Africa, when women who resemble the might and power of the great beasts (elephant, rhino, hippo, cape buffalo) in size, shape, color, and texture, were admired.

    Despite their removal from Africa, they old preferences still exist.

    Like


  234. S says, “I don’t think blacks are genetically predisposed to obesity.”

    You are correct. On average globally, even excluding places where malnutrition is common, we tend to carry less bodyfat, and what we do have is usually in “pockets” around the ass.

    The belly fat that’s slightly more common in African American women is usually due to mixing, vitamin D deficiency, and too much junk fat and carbs.

    The guys here harping on how fat Black women are, are American. The women they’re talking about are seldom fully sub saharan African, and grew up in a culture where almost everyone around them is hammering into them how ugly and inferior they are. Plus, most are grossly misinformed about what they should and shouldn’t be eating.

    That’s changing though. Little by little, we’re waking up, and since we’re a subculture wherein news about such things travels pretty fast, I think we’re about to see that stereotype die despite the shrill voices of those who need to constantly tell themselves why they shouldn’t like us…as if preference isn’t enough.

    Even Oprah has caught on. Hopefully she’s not too whitewashed to accept better health over thinness. A natural diet will set your body right, but it won’t make you Kate Moss.

    Well…some women it will. One of my aunts is basically a stickperson now, but my dad is very lean. She’s the female equivalent. Their natural figure is just extremely low bodyfat. She’s converting some co workers by eating eggs on greens in front of them at lunchtime. Heheheh…

    Like


  235. on August 15, 2009 at 10:11 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    That’s changing though. Little by little, we’re waking up, and since we’re a subculture wherein news about such things travels pretty fast, I think we’re about to see that stereotype die

    If black women are actually slimming down, I approve. That is good news for their own health, and for non-black men. It is bad news for black men, however, as their preferences will be less common (there is a VERY long way to go before there is a meaningful change in obesity rates, however).

    Like


  236. Warpig’s ghost:

    “The belly fat that’s slightly more common in African American women is usually due to mixing, vitamin D deficiency, and too much junk fat and carbs.”
    —-too much eating. period.

    “The guys here harping on how fat Black women are, are American. The women they’re talking about are seldom fully sub saharan African, and grew up in a culture where almost everyone around them is hammering into them how ugly and inferior they are.”
    —lol. Another black person blaming black problems on non-blacks, and making ridiculous claims (“hammering into them how ugly and inferior they are”) that are both unsupportable and yet standard SWPL and black racialist talking points.

    “Plus, most are grossly misinformed about what they should and shouldn’t be eating.”
    —fair enough.

    “That’s changing though.”
    —proof?

    “Little by little, we’re waking up, and since we’re a subculture wherein news about such things travels pretty fast,”
    —oh, anecodtal evidence. And yes,t hat same black community that passes around rumors of menthol cigarrettes being the development of the Klan and crack being made by the CIA and Bin Laden never admitting he was responsible for 9/11. You’re right, rumor amongst ethnic groups destroys bad habits….or is just full fo crazy conspiracy theories.

    “I think we’re about to see that stereotype die despite the shrill voices of those who need to constantly tell themselves why they shouldn’t like us…as if preference isn’t enough.”
    —-proof?

    So long as blacks refuse to embrace civilization and education, and promote gansterism, violence, and “keeping it real” over social climbing, they will remain poor and at the bottom. So long as they are there, and food is as plentiful as it is now, they will remain overweight.

    Prediction: in 4 generations, Mexican immigrants will no longer be either delivery men or overweight. but blacks will–and start bl;aming Mexicans as the same as everyone else for “keeping them down.”

    Like


  237. on August 15, 2009 at 10:21 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    Black man pleads guilty to impersonating Obama-hating white supremacist on Facebook, in order to create backlash against whites.

    Gee…why am I not surprised?

    This is the same thing as the feminists who say Game = misogyny, and that PUAs are idolizing Sodini.

    Like


  238. WuMin, it depends on the trends. Black people aren’t immune to sheeplism, and they’ve had many more years of misinformation and unrealistic standards than they have of good information and realism. I suspect many women will abandon a natural diet because it doesn’t work quickly, and though they’ll feel great, they won’t mostly become skinny from it.

    Those of us who are totally sub saharan or mixed only with Native American will have an easier time of it because we actually do ultimately become slim or maybe “curvy” at the most, and have tons more energy. Those who are mostly European mixed though, will often end up looking well…like your grandma.

    Have a look at FLDS women. That’s what European ladies look like on a natural diet. Some are slim, some are chubby. None are extremely obese, but they’re not all model or dancer figures either.

    Like


  239. on August 15, 2009 at 10:25 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    It is with a heavy heart that I have come to the following conclusion on HBD :

    There are only 2 groups in the world that are hopeless : Blacks and Mestizos with the least white lineage (i.e. those of Guatemala, Nicaragua, Bolivia, etc.).

    Every other group in the world will, before long, climb out of poverty and be a fully-integrated part of the global economy. Arabs, Bangladeshis, Cambodians, etc. will all eventually civilize.

    Blacks and unhybrid Mestizos are, however, hopeless.

    Like


  240. Lurker, you can go stand in the “fuck yourself” corner with the other incoherent idiots.

    Like


  241. WuMin, you realize you’re saying that with a Black president, right?

    Why is it so hard for people to understand that regardless of race, the cream always rises to the top?

    Suck it up. All of us have our crosses to bear. You can choose to do something with your life other than kvetch, or you can choose to wallow in self pity. People who wash out of life come in all colors, and I don’t have much sympathy for any of them.

    Bitching is for bitches.

    Like


  242. on August 15, 2009 at 10:48 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    He has the same black ancestry as white ancestry, so blacks have no more ownership of him than whites.

    Plus, his approval ratings show him to be a poor President. Exclude blacks (who approve of him 96% because of 50% of his lineage, rather than his competence as a leader), and his approval rating is below 40%.

    Condi Rice was smarter. By far.

    With blacks, the cream is 1% (which quite possibly includes yourself). With Asians, it is probably 40%.

    Again, as I said, with a heavy heart, there are only 2 groups that appear as though they will never be able to ‘get with the program’. despite overwhelming assistance provided. Every other group will manage to civilize within a couple of decades.

    Like


  243. Poor Warpig, can’t back up any of her hair-brained assertions with fact, I take occam’s razor to her blatherings and promptly shave 600lbs off her rhino-ass (don’t worrk–she’s got another 1/2 ton on her).

    bite be, warthog.

    Like


  244. Warpig, comparing NotMyPresident to cream is a fast way to insult all blacks as much as any Klan member could.

    Like


  245. @Ghost of Nicole:

    FLDS? Sorry, not familiar with the acronym.

    Like


  246. Welmer

    For her part, Hope is pretty plain for a Chinese girl.

    I don’t think she looks plain at all.

    As Chinese guys will tell you, white men will frequently fall for sub-par Chinese women, thinking them far more desirable than they really are.

    Uh… how does this work, exactly? Beauty is subjective, so if some white guy thinks some Chinese woman is attractive, then she simply is attractive. To him. It doesn’t matter what you or anyone else thinks.

    I remember bringing a beautiful Chinese girl home one night in Beijing, and when my Chinese neighbor saw this, his eyes widened, showing he was both surprised and impressed. He said to me: “This is not bad. You are really learning something about China.”

    Yes, you should definitely choose your girlfriends/one night stands based on what your neighbor thinks.

    lurker

    tjf knows as much about women as Barack Obama knows about running a country. he figures if lies enough about how it should be, it will become true.

    what a silly bitch.

    What a compelling and intelligent counter-argument.

    Like


  247. But in Shanghai, I can see the gradation within the city. In Pudong for example, it is almost western – even starting to get SWPL-ish.

    JerrDogg, I grew up in a suburb of Nanjing, and it has a different cultural flavor from Shanghai. Small river-side city vs. major port city that everyone knows about. My mother’s side of the family is from the north, and even though I love my maternal grandfather, he still had children with another woman outside his marriage, and was not too pleased that all three of his sons and daughters produced female grandchildren.

    For her part, Hope is pretty plain for a Chinese girl. Maybe she can make up for that with some skill in bed, but that would be speculation — she isn’t that good-looking.

    Welmer, I’m sorry, but you can’t insult me better than my own family can. I know you have some kind of vendetta against me, but surely you can come up with better insults than just “plain.”

    My father thought I was the most hideous kid in the world. His whole side of the family wanted a boy, and my father said he might not have divorced my mom if I had been a boy. My mom made sure I knew how ugly I was from the time I started living with her. My whole family has called me ugly ever since I was a little kid. They compared me to my older cousin who is thinner, taller, and lighter-skinned. She has bigger eyes and a smaller, less Mongoloid nose. They also referred to me as boyish, dirty and gross. For a Chinese girl I am dark-skinned, only half-Han Chinese, and a terrible underachiever. I grew up thinking no guy was going to want me.

    So you are absolutely right; Chinese guys would think of me as subpar. I would have not been able to find a guy to treat me well in China. However I do have plenty of things outside my looks to make up for it. I’m “ugly” but I have above average intelligence, empathy, artistic abilities, programming skills, cooking skills and bedroom skills. I am definitely lucky to have met my white nerdy WoW player, guitar player and math grad student. He loves that I love him dearly, nurture and support him, give him tons of backrubs, make him sandwiches in the morning, pack his lunch and make his dinner, don’t give him crap, and can talk to him about any subject. His immediate family members who have met me adore me. In his world, looks are not all that matters.

    In your world, looks reign supreme. Hence your ex-wife is a cheerleader, and you go after women who are super hot by your definition. You also like to insult random women online even though they have never insulted you personally. Thank you, sir. Please continue to inform me of my shortcomings. It is instructive.

    Like


  248. Whatever Hope is by Chinese standards, I would say she’s pretty hot by Western ones.

    Like


  249. on August 16, 2009 at 12:07 am Comment_Whatever

    S wrote:

    @Ghost of Nicole

    FLDS? Sorry, not familiar with the acronym.

    That’s what Yahoo! is for.

    Just search for FLDS.

    Like


  250. on August 16, 2009 at 12:11 am Anonymous for now

    I’m “ugly” but I have above average intelligence, empathy, artistic abilities, programming skills, cooking skills and bedroom skills. I am definitely lucky to have met my white nerdy WoW player, guitar player and math grad student.

    Hope, you are NOT ugly!!! You have beautiful, clear skin, long healthy hair, beautifully wide-set eyes, a lovely figure…and generally appear to be enjoying life (as seen in the pics on your blog).

    If you truly feel this way, you are not operating in true reality…and I can’t believe your family started these typed of feelings in motion.

    Take what certain people say about looks on this blog with a grain of salt: they have ulterior motives at times…and most of them never reveal what THEY look like, so it gives them leverage and a certain amount of pseudo-power.

    And as far as appearing plain to some people, it could be due to the fact that they are used to seeing women with a pound of make-up on their faces.

    Like


  251. on August 16, 2009 at 12:11 am Anonymous for now

    S: Whatever Hope is by Chinese standards, I would say she’s pretty hot by Western ones.

    Exactly!!!!🙂

    Like


  252. Lurker, if you want to have a conversation with me, you’ll address me by my name, and with the civil “tone”.

    Otherwise, I have trouble caring enough to waste the time typing about your issues.

    If, as I suspect, the whole point of your posts directed towards me are to simply insult me, without any real exchange of information or opinions save your expressions of disgust, please take a number, and I’ll be with you as soon as I muster enough of a fuck to give about those in line ahead of you.

    Like


  253. Hope says, “In your world, looks reign supreme. Hence your ex-wife is a cheerleader, and you go after women who are super hot by your definition. You also like to insult random women online even though they have never insulted you personally. Thank you, sir. Please continue to inform me of my shortcomings. It is instructive.”

    :: hands Welmer some aloe vera gel and a tissue ::

    Like


  254. I think the JAP may be going endangered, if not extinct. Hard to be pampered and a princess if you are a professional, like a lawyer, or a doctor, or what have you. Particularly when female culture tends to look down on overt princess behavior in real life, as opposed to fantasies. Heck half of reality tv (female-oriented) is laughing at pampered princesses.

    As for China, when I was there I hardly saw any attractive girls in/around Beijing, including Tsinghua University. Hong Kong was another matter, however.

    I will say, on topic, that the need for LTR Game would have been incomprehensible to our fathers and grandfathers. “You need to do what?” Which is a giant red arrow that women have changed RADICALLY.

    Like


  255. Re: FLDS

    Whoops. I didn’t really understand what the Google search yielded until I took a second glance at the images.

    Like


  256. Dave from Hawaii,

    Thank you for the time you put into each post.

    Like


  257. @Sebastian Flyte

    “Married women seem to deliver more complex shit tests”

    And they know how to do this because they know their guy so much better. A shit test thrown at a guy running game in a club or after a few dates can only be made so complex. But after a few years of marriage, both spouses know each other’s hot buttons extremely well. Moreover, woman are far more perceptive than men on relationship matters and on what these hot buttons are. She knows all too well where your soft underbelly is.

    Yet the REASON they still throw these shit tests after X-years of marriage is still the same. They subconsciously need to confirm that you’re (still) the kind of man that won’t wilt, that can’t be easily manipulated, and whose sperm is worth the risk of a 9-month gestation + time spent in child rearing. It’s mathematical: A woman has… what?… only 300 or so eggs(?) and a far greater investment in the process. You, on the other hand, have billions of swimmers and couldn’t care less where you launch them. The woman needs multiple filters for whose swimmers she’ll accept. The shit test is just one of these filters.

    Like


  258. I’m “ugly” but I have above average intelligence, empathy, artistic abilities, programming skills, cooking skills and bedroom skills

    All of those talents make you an excellent female friend. The last talent is irrelevant since per your photos online, you’re not sexually attractive (to me).

    He loves that I love him dearly, nurture and support him, give him tons of backrubs, make him sandwiches in the morning, pack his lunch and make his dinner, don’t give him crap

    So you’re the sweet type of golddigger who clothes her attempts to snare a human ATM machine via sweetness and kind actions?

    In your world, looks reign supreme.

    Looks and status are everything. If you’re not sexually attractive, you get dumped into the friend zone. Just like how a man’s alpha/beta/sub-human status determines whether or not he’s actually attractive to his partner as a man or as an ATM machine.

    Whatever Hope is by Chinese standards, I would say she’s pretty hot by Western ones.

    While it would be wrong for me to say she’s ugly or use the same insults that her family used against her, she’s just average looking to me, and certainly not hot. Of course, some guys would go crazy for that, but Hope couldn’t lure me in with promises of acrylic nails. You, OTOH, maybe…

    And as far as appearing plain to some people, it could be due to the fact that they are used to seeing women with a pound of make-up on their faces.

    But that’s sexually attractive!

    Like


  259. Whiskey says, “I will say, on topic, that the need for LTR Game would have been incomprehensible to our fathers and grandfathers. “You need to do what?” Which is a giant red arrow that women have changed RADICALLY.”

    I don’t think women have changed so radically, and this is kind of the root of the problem. The social engineers who shaped American culture for the past 50 years or so, didn’t take human nature into account. They didn’t even know as much about it then, as we know now.

    What we have now is many people trying to live a lifestyle that is counter to their nature. Men are more vulnerable to unnatural situations because even with a 1:1 ratio, there is a kind of surplus of you.

    The reason LTR game didn’t generally need to be taught as “LTR game” back in the day is that it was already being taught as a part of a young man’s upbringing. A man had to be strong, responsible, and the head of his household. A man who didn’t fulfill these requirements was not viewed as a man.

    Women weren’t looking for “nice” even in the old days. They were looking for merciful, but nobody ever liked a man without a backbone. Not ever.

    If men would just stop making themselves useless and expendable, women would stop treating them as if they were useless and expendable.

    As things are going, except for women in the top maybe percentile of “beauty”, that’s just what most western men are…worker bees no woman in her right mind would get attached to. We can’t count on you to be there for us because we’re not “ideal”, and our looks are all that matters to you.

    This is supposed to make us trust you?

    …knowing that as soon as we “hit the wall” you’re going to replace us or become so dissatisfied that you’re impossible to live with?

    …knowing that since most of us don’t fit your media standard, you view us as pump and dump material despite our actual character, we have no chance?

    Time has basically run out for the wussified male. You’re selecting yourselves out of the gene pool, and dragging us down with you. The mercenaries are basically punking you and taking the money and running, and raising your kids to be selfish bitches and like themselves, and suckers like you.

    The only good news is that, for now, some of us devalued dogs can take a lot of kicking before we wake up to the fact that you hold us in such deep contempt.

    So not to worry…as soon as we wake up, your misery will have plenty company…only I don’t see women being quite as miserable as men in this. Since I “closed the shop” I’ve been a lot happier. No more getting used by ungrateful bastards for me.

    Like


  260. Hey, how should my friend have responded? Thanks.

    (01:50:22) J: i was shit tested today
    (01:50:31) Omega: ya?
    (01:50:32) Jason: even though tiff has no interests in getting a tattoo
    (01:50:42) J: she asked me, “can i get a tattoo”
    (01:50:52) J: i said “up to you”
    (01:50:55) J: and she was mad

    Like


  261. Girls flocked to me, adoring my boy.

    I suspect your son was an attempt to game women. In contrast, I use my niece and nephews as a beta mechanism to scare women off.

    Ran low-intensity Game on the women there, just for fun, to make the girls laugh.

    I’m obviously the community sub-human male with opinions of no redeeming value, but I fail to see the purpose of running game on women you’re not going to bang.

    (Second generation Italian girls can be great for that too.)

    Athena sorta reeks of that traditional girl value sometimes where she’ll rant on her sister-in-law and note her inability to do laundry or cook which she feels are wifely tasks. Had Wellesley Queen said that, I’d be livid toward her, but Athena’s special…

    Like


  262. DAU says, “…I fail to see the purpose of running game on women you’re not going to bang.”

    Same reason I’m customarily flirtatious, in my way, with men who I know think I’m either hideous or somehow ethnically inferior. It boosts their ego and gets me a good price on supplies, better service, and other perks. It’s like social lubrication.

    People like to feel magnanimous, or like they have some kind of advantage. If you make them feel good about themselves, it gets you places that being openly realistic won’t.

    Yeah, it’s deceptive, but so is wearing makeup.

    Like


  263. MNL,

    And that is precisely why I find humans amusing. Female behavior is suited for living in the stone age. Flying a spaceship (modern civilization) with a biplane manual (stone age ape like behavior) cannot end well.

    It is fun to watch, though.

    Like


  264. MNL,

    We have gone past the point where a return to the stone age was possible. At this point it is either extinction or a new way, and even if a person lives in a remote stone age culture today, he/she wont make it if things go to hell.

    Like


  265. I realized why black men prefer white women after my first few brief interactions with black women. I am always amazed that any man can tolerate such attitudes.

    I have sympathy for black men, but none for black women. Indeed, black women’s attitudes are the biggest problem for black men.

    Like


  266. Lucifer, please forgive us ugly inferior holes for not opening up on demand due to your inherent superiority.

    Like


  267. whiskey

    As for China, when I was there I hardly saw any attractive girls in/around Beijing, including Tsinghua University. Hong Kong was another matter, however.

    Tsinghua? What do you expect, Whiskey — that’s like the Chinese version of MIT.

    Anyway, Suzhou supposedly has the best looking girls in China. At least that’s what I’ve heard (never been there).

    Hope

    Welmer, I’m sorry, but you can’t insult me better than my own family can. I know you have some kind of vendetta against me, but surely you can come up with better insults than just “plain.”

    “Plain” wasn’t intended to be an insult. It was simply honesty. And plain isn’t ugly. Lord knows there are plenty of ugly chicks in China.

    And no, I don’t have a vendetta against you; I’m simply treating you like the American girl you are.

    BTW, isn’t it interesting that the two who rush to your defense are women? I’m pretty sure that at least one of them is a lesbian.

    For what it’s worth, I’d never spurn my children, even if they were ugly (fortunately they aren’t).

    So you are absolutely right; Chinese guys would think of me as subpar. I would have not been able to find a guy to treat me well in China. However I do have plenty of things outside my looks to make up for it. I’m “ugly” but I have above average intelligence, empathy, artistic abilities, programming skills, cooking skills and bedroom skills. I am definitely lucky to have met my white nerdy WoW player, guitar player and math grad student.

    Culturally, I am more like the Chinese guys you fled. Rather than play WoW and study math in Utah, I would prefer drinking wine with friends on a spring evening by a lotus pond, composing poetry by moonlight, and listening to the tunes of a guzheng being played by fair-skinned maidens clad in the smoothest silk.

    You also like to insult random women online even though they have never insulted you personally. Thank you, sir. Please continue to inform me of my shortcomings. It is instructive.

    You have repeatedly insulted and denigrated the man you married on a popular blog. How is that morally superior to insulting a stranger?

    Take the log out of your eye before pointing out the sliver in another’s.

    Like


  268. Hats of to Dave from Hawaii for his many posts–and to CH for summarizing them here. Pure gold. Dave, I can’t help but think that if more men adopted your approach to marriage, divorce rates wouldn’t be quite what they are today.

    One particular perspective that I hadn’t heard expressed quite like this before is where Dave suggests treating one’s wife a bit like one’s kid sister. Obviously, she’s NOT your kid sister. (Hopefully, she’s a whole lot hotter!) But if you can maintain that same teasing frame, that same impudence and utter lack of dependency, then I think you come 95% of the way towards having the right frame for marriage.

    It’s truly a strange thing how otherwise healthy, previously alpha, men can wind up with their balls stuck firmly in their wife’s purse. It’s as if nature’s played a cruel trick on us whereby men so easily slide into a direction of supplication.

    Like


  269. Whatever, Welmer. Most Asian girls are subpar, but at least Hope had a better face and personality than that lilgrl ho.

    Like


  270. Welmer

    BTW, isn’t it interesting that the two who rush to your defense are women? I’m pretty sure that at least one of them is a lesbian.

    And I’m pretty sure you should receive medication for your paranoia. I’m not a woman.

    Like


  271. For what it’s worth, I’d never spurn my children, even if they were ugly.

    I’m simply treating you like the American girl you are.

    Welmer, it’s great that you don’t spurn your children. But isn’t one of your children an American girl?

    Seriously, do you think being hostile is going to protect you from bitches, or lead to there being fewer bitches in the world?

    Nicole, I know most people have little compassion for others. My compassion for them stops me from responding to hostility with hostility. If people want to insult me, that’s their prerogative.

    Like


  272. You have repeatedly insulted and denigrated the man you married on a popular blog. How is that morally superior to insulting a stranger?

    I know it’s only kosher for guys to talk about their ex in public forums, kind of the way my ex-husband repeatedly writes in a popular forum about wanting to kill me and how much of a whore and bitch I am. But I’d like to have just maybe just a fraction of the time to maybe do the same? Please?

    Like


  273. Hope says, “Nicole, I know most people have little compassion for others. My compassion for them stops me from responding to hostility with hostility. If people want to insult me, that’s their prerogative.”

    Whatever works for you…but all putting my head down ever got me was a bunch of people lining up to push it down farther.

    At some point, I decided to be natural, and what’s natural for me is good faith. Once that is broken, there is no more.

    If my ex was slandering me on a public forum, and we didn’t have any kids together, he would never hear from or see me again. Let the elephants bury his bones.

    Like


  274. Heheheh…Welmer, I’m not rushing to anyone’s defense. I personally think she should never have married the psychic vampire. I don’t know if she could have or should have stayed with him, but I do know that sometimes women, especially Asian women, don’t always give the full details of their own motivations.

    Reading between the lines, to me the decision was something like, “I had to leave him so I wouldn’t kill him and/or myself.”

    Some women do that. As a CH certified nutcase, that could have been the end of my story on the second marriage. Until I knew what was really going on, I thought I was the dumbest woman on earth and didn’t deserve to keep breathing.

    Just because it was easy for your ex cheerleader wife to turn on you doesn’t mean all of us enjoy hurting people. Your ex is a straight up bitch, and you did good to leave her. Thing is, just because we’re not all angels doesn’t mean we’re all bitches like your ex.

    I don’t know Hope personally to know whether or not you’re being too hard on her, but you should probably ask yourself what attacking her is doing to you. Does it make you feel better? If she is a closet bitch and fooling us all, do you think you’re giving her a good reason to change her ways?

    Seriously, do you think being hostile is going to protect you from bitches, or lead to there being fewer bitches in the world? I’d tell you the same thing I tell women who treat people like crap for no good reason. You’re not doing yourself any favors this way.

    Take it or leave it…That’s just my perspective.

    …and no, I’m not a Lesbian. I kind of wish I was, because it would definitely make my life much easier.

    Alas, I’m only a smidge bisexual, and I love the cock…but just not enough to allow access to the underqualified. Besides, the underqualified wouldn’t appreciate my stuff anyway. Not enough of their equally mediocre, herd invested friends would want to shag me to give them any social leverage among the ambitiously average.

    Like


  275. maybe if dumb fuckin’ broads would stop posting pictures of themselves here they wouldn’t get their looks torn up and need random female posters to rush to their aid and tell them how “oh no!! you’re BEAUTIFUL!!!! no! don’t listen to the mean men really!”.

    this isn’t a dating site–if you want your ideas taken seriously and post a pic you will either: a) be too pretty for anyone to care what you are saying and get torn down for sport and to keep you humble or b) be so ugly you inspire hatred in men, thereby usually also negating what you have to say, especially if you say it in a loopy, whimsical style that’s already difficult to tolerate.

    just my 2 cents on that issue

    Like


  276. MNL,

    You said:

    “@Sebastian Flyte

    “Married women seem to deliver more complex shit tests”

    And they know how to do this because they know their guy so much better. A shit test thrown at a guy running game in a club or after a few dates can only be made so complex. But after a few years of marriage, both spouses know each other’s hot buttons extremely well. Moreover, woman are far more perceptive than men on relationship matters and on what these hot buttons are. She knows all too well where your soft underbelly is.

    Yet the REASON they still throw these shit tests after X-years of marriage is still the same. They subconsciously need to confirm that you’re (still) the kind of man that won’t wilt, that can’t be easily manipulated, and whose sperm is worth the risk of a 9-month gestation + time spent in child rearing. It’s mathematical: A woman has… what?… only 300 or so eggs(?) and a far greater investment in the process. You, on the other hand, have billions of swimmers and couldn’t care less where you launch them. The woman needs multiple filters for whose swimmers she’ll accept. The shit test is just one of these filters.”

    Obsidian: Could not have been better said, and on a Sunday Morning no less! Let me stand up a testify, lemme 100% cosign and wholeheartedly endorse what you said, fullstop.

    I’ve learned, that it is SO important for a Man to be like a rock, an oak, consistent, unwavering, always, always, always the same, insofar as emotional stability is concerned. The minute you step out of this mindset and do HER thing-the emotional peaks and valleys stuff-YOU LOSE.

    Because Women know well their chaotic emotional states, no matter how much they may try to deny it. They’re looking for a Man that won’t allow themselves to be knocked off their square, if you know what I mean.

    So, in a sense, the shit test is a way to determine how emotionally strong a Man is, too. And there are a number of ways to deal with them. One of them is humor, another is bemused silence, another is stoic silence, and so on. But whateva you do, do not let your Woman, be she a one night stand or your companion of 25 years, knock you off your blessed square.

    She goes peaks and valleys w/it, you have to maintain a consistent flatline, impervious to all her stuff, imagine the old Superman show where he just stands there while the bady guys fire bullets at him? They simply bounce off, while he grins. You gotta be like Superman.

    In fact, I’ve learned how to be so non-plussed by a Woman’s shit tests, that I can literally break her down to where she just gives up, exasperated. Of course by then she done worked herself up so much that only a good, strong, primal fucking will cool her out…

    Heh heh

    Passing shit tests definitely do have their rewards.

    O

    Like


  277. Dana,

    You said:

    “maybe if dumb fuckin’ broads would stop posting pictures of themselves here they wouldn’t get their looks torn up and need random female posters to rush to their aid and tell them how “oh no!! you’re BEAUTIFUL!!!! no! don’t listen to the mean men really!”.

    this isn’t a dating site–if you want your ideas taken seriously and post a pic you will either: a) be too pretty for anyone to care what you are saying and get torn down for sport and to keep you humble or b) be so ugly you inspire hatred in men, thereby usually also negating what you have to say, especially if you say it in a loopy, whimsical style that’s already difficult to tolerate.

    just my 2 cents on that issue”

    Obsidian: And I thank you for it…although I have to say, that I reject the notion that a Woman’s looks have an automatic bearing on what she has to say, nor do I accept the idea that a Man cannot control his impulses either way, and simply deal w/the issues at hand. W/all due respect to my brothers in the forum, I have to say that many of them don’t come accross as grown Men along these lines, but immature boys-either by beating up on a Woman’s looks, or pandering to her because of them. If she looks good to you, cool, speak on it once or twice then move on to the business at hand. If she doesn’t, that’s also cool, there’s no need to browbeat the gal on it, the silence is good enough.

    Just my two cents.

    O

    Like


  278. I really have to laugh at people who try to rationalize shit testing instead of realizing that it’s just mindless drama and recretional social engineering.

    Like


  279. @Hope

    “For her part, Hope is pretty plain for a Chinese girl.”

    I checked her pictures out and I’d disagree depending on how you define “plain”. You are not a 9 or a 10 nor are you remarkable in appearance so perhaps “vanilla” would best describe you. But you are certainly better looking than the average Chinese woman of same age and I see an awful lot of Chinese women so I know what I’m talking about.

    Given your other fairly positive attributes (which despite what you read here do matter for the kind of guy you ultimately want) overall you are going to be in a solid position in the quality guy marriage market in America. If your family didn’t beat you down when you were younger, you wouldn’t have developed the positive other attributes that men look for.

    So while ‘vanilla’ in appearance, and perhaps ok but unremarkable in a club, I’d say you’re probably a text book case of the mutual appeal of quality (not just nerdy) white men and asian woman. I’d bone you.

    Like


  280. nicole,

    when you type, it’s hard to take you seriously

    Like


  281. Okay dudes I have to run something that’s happened to me recently and get some male perspective.

    I have an alpha-ex bf from the spring. He dumped me, but had occasionally texted and we’ve had one phone call in the last few months. On Thurs he showed up at my house I wasn’t home. He texted Friday morning very early. I waited a few hours texted back. The text convo was confusing so I called him at work. He goes on to tell me his life is a mess. He’s moved in with a chick and its not going well. He regrets dumping me, he was drunk he tells me when he did it. He thinks about me, yada yada yada. My first reaction is anger and hurt – he’s calling me to tell me he’s not only moved in with a chick but he calls me when its not going well. He calms me down and tells me he wants to look me in the eyes to tell me the errors he’s made. Same night he shows up at my house and this time I’m home. He comes in. Instead of telling me how he screwed up, he uses me as his therapist. He tells how hot and beautiful his new gf is – how’s she’s nine years younger but needy. He tells me they have explosive sex. How he can get any woman he wants to take her clothes off in hours not days etc etc.

    So dudes what is that about?? What on earth possesses a dude to do that crazy shit?

    The story only gets better but I’ll wait until I get opinions before I wind it up.

    Like


  282. Aoefe, next time an ex boyfriend wants to talk to you, don’t let him in your home. Meet him in a cafe.

    Home visits boost his ego, and entertain delusions that maybe he can get back in if he wanted. Don’t afford him that. He dumped you, so he’s already lost. You have nothing to lose from keeping him at a safe distance in the future.

    Honestly, this guy is like a dog returning to his vomit. Tell him to have some dignity and stop digging through his trash.

    Like


  283. Nicole – Oh I have tons of gf opinions. Trust me. I’m looking for male perspective on why a guy would do or approach like he did. But thanks. 🙂

    Like


  284. aoefe,

    never talk to exes ever

    period

    they are dead to you.

    dont schlep drama through your life–people are a dime a dozen, get new friends.

    he has nothing to offer you but pain and confusion

    why do women do this to themselves?
    banging some guy for a while doesn’t make him indispensible family

    Like


  285. you need a man to tell you he wants to fuck you on the side with no commitment? lol ok, ill hold pixels til men reply

    Like


  286. Dana – no man could honestly think that talking about his hot younger girl friend is going to make me attractive to him!!! Srsly?

    Like


  287. ooops not attractive to him…attracted to him.

    Like


  288. social proof aoefe, women love a man whos not only taken, but is banging someone hotter than them–makes them want to show they are worthy

    Like


  289. on August 16, 2009 at 9:37 am Cannon's Canon

    uefa cup:

    as you present it, it’s not measured “game.” your ex is showing you a vulnerability because he believes he has already achieved infinite social proof. he is spelling out how hot his conquests are because he feels the need to explain why he’s still into you: he does not believe you’d buy him chasing your ‘complete package’ because of his (perceived) superior status, so he is trying to make it very clear that you bring out more in him than the standard hot chicks.

    again, it’s not a practitioner’s “game” strategy; he’s trying to think outside the box for you. if he did not value you, he’d revert to his caveman tactics, which are successful for him. in my opinion, you should be flattered.

    Like


  290. Aoefe, their “issues” will not be enough to break them up unless he finds someone even hotter before she gets pregnant or something. Hot is American for socially convenient. He’s never going to leave her for you.

    It makes me kinda doubt his alphatude actually…unless he’s in one of those high level corporate circles where everybody gets a hot wife and an understanding mistress, he’s got no reason to be emotionally slumming except herd mindedness.

    …and if he’s got the eyes of a sheep, she can shag five of his best friends, and he’d blame himself and try to make things work by buying her more things or something.

    If one of her “issues” is that she’s running up his bills, then he’s already hoe whipped, and likes it that way.

    As Yoda would say, “Like the plague, avoid this man.”

    Like


  291. Dana – ya social proof makes sense on paper but it didn’t have that effect at all during the actual convo. Mind you, when he walked in the door I felt zero attraction. I felt like it was a friend I knew but not a bf. Interestingly we got into a discussion about his alphaness – lol. I ‘diagnosed’ him. He got a little sad imagining a life without a life long partner. I told him he’d never be alone for long – he would always ensure that he had short term exclusive love/sex interests. I told him because he could have whomever he wanted he would and that men liked fresh pussy if they could get it. He laughed. It was a fun conversation in many respects. He did at one point if I was feeling sexual tension and I told him yes. That was me being kind and really just trying to see if he responded in kind – he didn’t. Let’s just say he didn’t flatter me. He did say he had a lot of fun with me and he missed that (he wasn’t referring to sex), but that was the extent of him doing anything to make me feel good about me.

    Like


  292. Aoefe, well…there’s another possibility.

    Maybe you’re the only person he has left who gives a rat’s arse about him.

    In that case you did good to play therapist once. Just don’t let it become any kind of a habit, because once a guy dumps you, unless they are really acting like a real friend (like a take a bullet for you friend, and I’m not exaggerating) you’re like in his trash pile.

    Backtracking seldom leads to anything good.

    Like


  293. Cannon, if he valued her, he wouldn’t have dumped her.

    Like


  294. Cannon’s Canon – Thanks for answering. I have to say I like your feedback. 🙂 I’m wondering if my own insecurity stopped me from analyzing it this way. I took it as a bad thing, not a good thing. Very interesting. Thanks.

    Like


  295. “So dudes what is that about?? What on earth possesses a dude to do that crazy shit? ”

    He’s not “alpha-ex”… he’s “ex-alpha”. In fact he probably never was alpha.

    Like


  296. Muumin or however you spell your name (why don’t you get yourself a man’s nick instead of that stupid multicultural affectation)

    For “hopeless races” you forgot one: Australian Aborigines, who have an even lower IQ than black Africans, if you can imagine such a thing.

    And you seem to be unaware that the term “Mestizo” means “mixed” in Spanish. The racial group you wish to identify is known by various terms, but I think “Amerindians” is the most elegant and attractive one — it puts the entire geographical and historical story into five syllables.

    Like


  297. Nicole

    He left after an hour and half. I advised him to get his head on straight, enjoy dating women and not hop into living together at the first signs of intensity. He’s very intense. I texted him the next am – saying it was great to see him that I realized neither one of us had attraction for each other any longer and wasn’t closure a thing of beauty. I said we could now both move on into our next relationships without questions of “what if…”, I then wished him good luck and put a smiley after it. I wanted to close the door to any future correspondance.

    The story would end but…

    12 hours later I get a call from his cell. I answer “hey you”. Nothing. I say hi a couple more times – my friendly, warm voice. Signal dies.

    Curiousity kills me – so I call back. Voice mail. I call back five minutes later – voice mail again I leave a message. “hey did your ass just call me?, I think you’re sitting on your phone – it dialed me.”

    My phone rings again from him five minutes later.

    Me: hey you

    Him: did you call?

    Me: ya, calling you back

    Him: I called?

    Me: ya I said hey you but no one was there just background noise – did you sit on your phone?

    Him: you said “hey you?”

    Me: ya (then it dawns on me)

    Me: did she call my phone?

    Him: ya

    Her: screaming in the background

    Him: tell her I don’t talk to you

    Me: whaaaat!

    Him to her: I haven’t seen her since the winter I don’t talk to her

    Me: I hang up

    This may be terrible, but it makes me laugh. He’s really screwed himself. And the reason he dumped me way back when…I suspected he was distracted by other women and asked him if he was. Ya karma’s a beotch.

    Like


  298. aeofe

    really, life is very short

    there isn’t one thing you need to talk to a man that dumped you about, or a man you dumped, or a man you had a one night stand with. it’s not karma, you aren’t getting him back–he doesn’t care like you do at all. its emotionally satisfying to men to keep women on various strings. why let him use you to make his current fuck jealous? he didn’t screw himself–her jealousy and his dickholeness probably combined later into the hottest fuck of their lives.

    there’s billions of ppl, find new ones to talk to.

    Like


  299. Aoefe, you played into his hands as a source of jealousy for her. They got off the phone, argued a bit, and broke a bed.

    He didn’t screw himself. He screwed you without even having to screw you.

    Do not answer ex boyfriends. This is why I rename the names of all their phone numbers “bitch” so I don’t know who it is, but I know it’s an ex bitch crawling back.

    I figure if one of them is dead, their parents will leave me a message on the answering service.

    Like


  300. Dana – I’m fully aware they had great sex later. I have no emotional investment but insatiable curiousity. I think because I hear about game all the time here I’m overly invested in playing it all out just for the scientific proof. 🙂

    Like


  301. And they know how to do this because they know their guy so much better. A shit test thrown at a guy running game in a club or after a few dates can only be made so complex. But after a few years of marriage, both spouses know each other’s hot buttons extremely well. Moreover, woman are far more perceptive than men on relationship matters and on what these hot buttons are. She knows all too well where your soft underbelly is.

    @ Obsidian —

    It’s also even more important for women to shit test well in marriages. Why? Because the critical question for married women, especially in our culture, is whether her man is becoming a beta, because that is a big cue that she should re-mate. Shit testing is a critical way married women have of “justifying” their urges to remate. It’s often remarked here that women are constantly looking for evidence to justify their actions. Many women are going to feel genetically-based prompts to remate with other men, even if their marriages are just fine. But if they can get their husbands to fail shit tests, that’s more evidence that “justifies” the remating behavior.

    Like


  302. @Jerr Dog – “In fact he probably never was alpha.”

    I think anyone who can get laid as often as he does and have as many women interested is. He’s a natural alpha but not a high one. He’s the cock of the walk type, knows how to neg without even knowing what he’s doing. Makes sure you know his status is higher in various ways mostly by lowering your own in small ways imperceptible unless you understand game. By every definition he’s alpha. He was even ordering an ex-gf (me) who’d he just talked to, to tell his current gf he doesn’t talk to him – ya that’s gutsy. I didn’t do it but a few months back before coming here I would have mostly to prove I’m a good, obedient friend.

    Like


  303. on August 16, 2009 at 10:22 am Cannon's Canon

    alternatively, instead of listening to the two 50 year old broads on the pickup board, you might reconsider your opportunity to tie down a natural alpha for something long-term. between his fidelity and your gina tingles, you’d have some uncertainty to ponder over. regardless, he gave you a peek at his soft underbelly, which is probably very rare.

    if you did decide to welcome his courtship once again, you would definitely be in direct competition with his girl. you missed your window to “alpha-female-other-girl” her with the way that visit concluded. i could not prescribe a strategy for such a battle in good consciousness, apart from maintaining those elite feminine qualities that brought him back to your doorbell in the first place. definitely do not attempt to flaunt another guy in front of him for a jealousy angle. off the cuff, some kind of hold-out on grounds of “destiny” might do the trick, if you sell it subtly and let him draw the conclusion.

    Like


  304. I’m obviously the community sub-human male with opinions of no redeeming value, but I fail to see the purpose of running game on women you’re not going to bang.

    Why I run game on women I don’t intend to bang:

    – enjoyment of womens’ company
    – default behavior on my part when I am in a good mood and my hair looks good and I’m wearing an awesome shirt
    – LTR Game component (I’m seen as attractive to other women)
    – My own ego gratification
    – My wife’s ego gratification (her man is seen as quality)
    – fulfilling a psychological need to be considered attractive by many women
    – this event was an industry “client appreciation day” with lots of female vendor reps, so there was a networking component to my mingling

    Like


  305. Novaseeker, it seems to me that it makes more sense to refresh and reinforce the alpha vibe, rather than to shit test. This might have worked against me in the first marriage, since he didn’t really want to be married, but it worked very nicely in the second, despite the relationship changing.

    Newcomer women are clear who’s the man of the house. my boyfriends have to deal with him like a very protective older brother. He has veto power if he notices something in a guy that he doesn’t like. No need to say he forbids anything. He just has a certain wrinkle of the nose that says everything without needing to say anything.

    I don’t think a guy has trouble staying the man so long as his woman doesn’t try to take that away from him.

    Like


  306. aoefe,

    to be fair, my advice is calculated to have you not end up feeling hurt/used/wasting more of your youth on a man you can’t really have

    if however you WANT him, cannon’s advice is indisputable

    Like


  307. how the fuck did that happen? pt barnum was me lol

    Like


  308. Nicole,

    Just wanted to respond to a few things you said.

    Obsidian says, “As a rule, it’s in a Woman’s best interest to be selective, but not to go too wild w/it, and this has to be carefully measured against her inherent beauty first and foremost, then her age, and finally any ancillary attributes, in that order. In a nutshell, the prettier, younger and nicer she is, will determine to what degree she can aggressively screen for potential suitors are not.”

    NICOLE: If anything, this is a good reason to take one’s self off the general market and become super selective, the further one is from “ideal”.

    OBSIDIAN: Yes, and no. Yes, going for niche market appeal does have its benefits. But in so doing, by definition, it means limiting the potential “market share” you can get. So it, like everything else, has its up and down sides.

    N: No woman should *ever* bank her future on the fickle, feminized western men today.

    O: W/all due respect Nicole, the beauty/youth standard is pretty constant accross cultures and times. Please name me a culture or a timeframe, where considerably homely and older Women were the go-to choice for the majority of Men in said culture and timeframe? This isn’t personal, Nicole, unlike the majority of guys here, I have no vested interest in this thing one way or another, and if anything I’ve proven to have personal tastes that run a bit counter to what most guys here profess to like. But that doesn’t stop me from simply affirming the facts on the ground. Men didn’t make these rules, Nicole, anymore than Women made the shit test rules. They are, what they are. And no amount of railing against it will change things. The smartest thing to do, like you said, is focus on those who want to be bothered.

    N: IMO, “ugly” girls shouldn’t even have casual sex. Once you know that for either social or so-called “objective” reasons, you’re being devalued, you should not play a game in which you are a loser by default.

    O: I don’t necessarily disagree w/you, but your point assumes that the Women are merely being taken for a ride-they may indeed be. But what if they wanted the sex too? Should they then not have sex, even if its casual and fleeting, w/Men who really don’t want them for longterm mates? Listen, Nicole…I understand where you’re coming from. And again, I don’t think you’re completely off base. But the fact of the matter is, for some Women, the most they’re ever gonna get is some pump and dump. I don’t like it, wish it were different, but that’s just the way it is, and its hardly new. Why deny a Woman that bit of pleasure in this world? Why automatically assume that she’s being devalued and used? All Women want to be desired, and for such a Woman, she is, even if its for a short while. That beats a blank. And who am I to knock her for that?

    N: If a woman’s looks are the be-all and end-all of her value to men in general, she’d do best not to be available at all to the general kind of men.

    O: Fair enough. But the other side to that argument is, if a Man’s material worth is the be all end all to Women in general, perhaps he’d be wise to avoid the vast majority of Women.

    Of course, while that sounds great in theory and on the printed page, we all know it simply doesn’t work that way, because Women, even in a time when they go to school and outearn Men in many ways, still expect to have a well earning Man in their life. Period. The facts on the ground, be damned.

    Something to think about, hmm?

    The Obsidian

    Like


  309. Canon’s Canon – “you missed your window to “alpha-female-other-girl” her with the way that visit concluded.”

    Do tell? I’m really curious.

    As to flaunting another guy no I know that doesn’t work. He was the one who referred in our one phone call a month or so back that who knows what our future holds. He was not saying that because I opened the door for it. He said he’d been really happy with me and happiness freaks him out and he sabotages it. I didn’t know at the time of the call he was involved. Not to put myself on a pedestal but I do think I was a different type of woman for him and he didn’t really didn’t know what to do with me. When I suspected he was seeing others I didn’t yell or scream or accuse. I simply said I wasn’t used to feeling jealous and didn’t know what to do with the feelings. He may have even been seeing this current chick I don’t know. He responded poorly and instead of reassuring me, he said he couldn’t stand jealousy and angrily dumped me. I think me bringing it up gave him an excuse because there was nothing else controversial in our relationship. I get pleasure out of being pleasing and was easy going to be with. I have wondered if my lack of challenge (ie no drama, giving him up without fighting) was a downfall for me. I think he’s used to drama, but perhaps he’s drawn to me in some ways because I don’t bring it. Hmmmm…

    Like


  310. Dana/Barnum Ringleader – “to be fair, my advice is calculated to have you not end up feeling hurt/used/wasting more of your youth on a man you can’t really have”

    I appreciate where its coming from, honestly I do. You are echoing exactly what I get from my gf’s here in real life. 🙂

    Like


  311. Aoefe,
    Just reading about your situation. Dude’s a nutjob. Plain and simple. Please don’t allow yourself to be played like that again. He’s your past. Keep him there, and let the dead bury the dead.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  312. on August 16, 2009 at 10:58 am Cannon's Canon

    aefoe,

    the “AMOG” meme refers to shooting down another alpha who is hovering over your target. similar to a neg, it’s not a direct insult. the last “test of your negs” commentary discussed how to shoot down the creeper in the background, for example.

    i have read about “boyfriend-destroyer” game in small avenues of PUA. short story, it is a type of qualifying suggestion that leads your target down the train of thought that their boyfriend (girlfriend, here) is not meeting some expectation. for you, if your competition is dumb, clingy, or shallow (for example), talk about how great the opposite of those faults are in a **hypothetical** partner and get your alpha to agree. bring up their partner’s shortcomings indirectly, and you will have undermined your man’s emotional tie to his girlfriend in his mind.

    it’s absolutely passive-aggressive and, in my opinion, the most puerile use of “game” that i’ve ever heard about. that said, it exists and has worked for some people.

    now, whether or not this guy is a good fit for you in the first place, or if your stars are aligned, or if he would do this or that, the fuck if i know.

    Like


  313. Dana, when you’re catty, it’s hard to take you seriously.

    I’m not so ugly as to inspire hatred. I’m just too inaccessible to imply desire to give or receive pity fucks. I’m old enough to be his mom if I was from West Virginia, and nobody expects a woman my age to look any better than I do. I look better than most women my age.

    The hangup that seems to irk most of the men here is my being fat. I never claimed that I was healthier that way, and have made it clear that part of the reason I was so fat for so long is because I was afraid for some time to go against my doctors’ and nutritionists’ recommendations, and go natty.

    The obsession with my fat is indicative of desperation to find something, anything, that will allow some people the delusion of some sort of superiority. While I’ve done more for the world as a fat woman than many here have done with their more “perfect” physiques, they insist on riding me about it.

    Well, soon they won’t even have that unless they’ve got a stick up their ass against dancers or maybe older women in general.

    When my boyfriend lets me post more recent photos of myself, I will. I don’t see a problem with people knowing what I look like. I don’t use the internet to hide from reality. It enhances my reality.

    If other people have trouble with that then well, that’s another sign of what’s wrong with feminized men today…catty as fags whining about how fat some chick they’re not shagging is.

    Like


  314. I’m with you on that one Obsidian. I’m seriously wondering if, from everything aoefe’s said about this guy, drama is his life fuel. What he hell.

    Though Canon’s Canon gave some great advice.

    Like


  315. @Obsidian: “NICOLE: If anything, this is a good reason to take one’s self off the general market and become super selective, the further one is from “ideal”.

    OBSIDIAN: Yes, and no. Yes, going for niche market appeal does have its benefits. But in so doing, by definition, it means limiting the potential “market share” you can get. So it, like everything else, has its up and down sides.”

    As yet, I haven’t seen a downside for any of the women who’ve chosen this route. There are always more independent thinking males than females. Many of them would prefer to be with a mate with similar abilities so as to reduce the chances of having what they view as mentally deficient children…or for some, any children at all.

    “N: No woman should *ever* bank her future on the fickle, feminized western men today.

    O: W/all due respect Nicole, the beauty/youth standard is pretty constant accross cultures and times.”

    …but in no civilized culture is it standard practice to replace wives with impunity, for the “sin” of getting older. Even when they legally have that option, most wouldn’t do it because their sons might rather their mother be a widow than a divorcee.

    In western culture, on the other hand, women are utterly disposable when they are older. Once their youth and beauty is gone, they are considered obsolete by men who supposedly loved them. Guys in arranged marriages manage to do better than that in cultures where a man would be excused for killing his wife for mouthing off.

    “Please name me a culture or a timeframe, where considerably homely and older Women were the go-to choice for the majority of Men in said culture and timeframe?”

    I wasn’t talking about go-to. I was talking about stay-with.

    “This isn’t personal, Nicole, unlike the majority of guys here, I have no vested interest in this thing one way or another, and if anything I’ve proven to have personal tastes that run a bit counter to what most guys here profess to like. But that doesn’t stop me from simply affirming the facts on the ground. Men didn’t make these rules, Nicole, anymore than Women made the shit test rules. They are, what they are. And no amount of railing against it will change things. The smartest thing to do, like you said, is focus on those who want to be bothered.”

    I’m not railing against the rules. I’m railing against those who rail against the rules. The easiest way to make yourself obsolete, as a male, is to lose the key features of masculinity: protectiveness, honor, territorialism, and the like.

    “N: IMO, “ugly” girls shouldn’t even have casual sex. Once you know that for either social or so-called “objective” reasons, you’re being devalued, you should not play a game in which you are a loser by default.

    O: I don’t necessarily disagree w/you, but your point assumes that the Women are merely being taken for a ride-they may indeed be. But what if they wanted the sex too?”

    Are you willing to have sex with someone who despises you?

    Would you keep having sex with someone if you found out that behind your back, they were telling other women how dirty and inferior you are, and what a sucker you are for doing it with them?

    “Should they then not have sex, even if its casual and fleeting, w/Men who really don’t want them for longterm mates?”

    You and I both know it’s not that simple. If it was being done with a “free love” kind of vibe, there probably wouldn’t be a problem. It’s not done out of love though. Western men feel contempt for women who aren’t close enough to their often maladaptive and masculinized “feminine ideal”.

    “Listen, Nicole…I understand where you’re coming from. And again, I don’t think you’re completely off base. But the fact of the matter is, for some Women, the most they’re ever gonna get is some pump and dump.”

    I accept that, and would personally rather go without. If someone else is desperate enough to let heterosexual faggots use their bodies to masturbate, that’s their business. I’m not that desperate, and would rather eat lead.

    “I don’t like it, wish it were different, but that’s just the way it is, and its hardly new. Why deny a Woman that bit of pleasure in this world?”

    Pleasure?

    You overestimate the enthusiasm of a guy who feels he’s slumming.

    “Why automatically assume that she’s being devalued and used? All Women want to be desired, and for such a Woman, she is, even if its for a short while. That beats a blank. And who am I to knock her for that?”

    I don’t knock desperate women. I pity them. It is a mental state I hope to never find myself in. If I do, I’ll know I’ve gone mad or am perhaps showing early signs of Alzheimer’s.

    “N: If a woman’s looks are the be-all and end-all of her value to men in general, she’d do best not to be available at all to the general kind of men.

    O: Fair enough. But the other side to that argument is, if a Man’s material worth is the be all end all to Women in general, perhaps he’d be wise to avoid the vast majority of Women.”

    A certain degree of money is necessary to raise a child. Looking like a Playboy centerfold isn’t necessary to raise a child.

    “Of course, while that sounds great in theory and on the printed page, we all know it simply doesn’t work that way, because Women, even in a time when they go to school and outearn Men in many ways, still expect to have a well earning Man in their life. Period. The facts on the ground, be damned. ”

    There is a point in both these situations, that people become unreasonable. It is reasonable to want one’s children to have enough to eat, and relative security. It is not reasonable to require that a woman stay young and beautiful forever on penalty of having her family fall apart.

    In this sort of social climate, mercanaries will, as I said, take the money and run proactively.

    “Something to think about, hmm?”

    Well, I’ve done my thinking, and I’ve never been desperate enough to have sex with someone I considered substandard. All I do by keeping my legs closed is to afford men a similar dignity. I won’t be available for them to lose their self respect in.

    I’m simply not wasting a minute or two of their time in search of the unicorn.

    Like


  316. Nicole

    Dana is right: When women (or men) post pics of themselves -real pics – they are signalling that they are not so interested in having their ideas taken seriously as they are in being rated for looks. Which is a dumb idea, in a place like this.
    Regarding obesity, I doubt many here would introduce the subject out of the blue. Doing so would seem pointless and ill-mannered. When someone tries to tell guys they should not be so put off by obesity or that they are stupidly following the herd by avoiding obese chicks – that is something completely different. That is rude and insulting to guys. It implies we do not know our own minds & instincts.

    Like


  317. Dana – I get what you’re saying…I’m fine… not hurting by this either. This particular alpha-ex is the reason I’m at CH learning about the male mind. I’ve learned a lot about myself in the process. I’m not emotionally tied to this man and not attracted to him any longer – no fear. For me it was curiousity more than anything to entertain his visit. My reason for posting is to ask the MEN here what they think about his approach. One kind of convo in the morning (re thinking about me) and then seeing me to tell me how hot his new gf is. I’m wanting to know if this is game or something else.

    Sigh…men reply…not ladies please. No offense ladies.

    Like


  318. I do not have the link, but there is research showing that fat women have low rates of divorce. This makes perfect sense if we keep in mind that 1. Most rejecting, dropping, tossing aside is iniated by the wifey. 2. Obese women usually have figured out that their opportunuities to trade-up are limited.

    Like


  319. I just did a nice little LTR game thing:

    Mrs. PA slinks by and says accusingly “You know, last night I had a dream that you betrayed me with another woman.”

    (In Polish “to cheat on” and “to betray” use the same verb: “zdradzić”)

    I respond earnestly: “I would never betray you.” Then wait a beat and add with a flourish, “even when I am unfaithful with my body, I’m never unfaithful with my heart.”

    She smiled.

    Like


  320. I should have added by talking about his hot, younger gf (despite the fact they’re having issues) only served to tell me I’m less hot in his eyes.

    Being a CH pupil I’ve learned that looks are first to men. Perhaps if I didn’t know men and how they think I would have been attracted simply because he was bending my ear and I would have been all “oh see he really likes me enough to tell me his problemos”. Instead I realized I’d been dumped so he could replace me with a younger, newer, shinier model and that only made me feel bad. (not bad for rejection but hurt my pride/vanity).

    Like


  321. Rum, it’s not all about you.

    Some of us have been online longer than the vicariously living wannabes who can barely find the power switch, much less upload a photo.

    Eventually, someone who didn’t like what I had to say, would post a photo of me. When I had my photo Gravatar, it was just of my face, and it wasn’t for the sake of being rated, just so people could see who they were talking to.

    This isn’t a dating site, so I didn’t think my looks should matter so much here. That they do is the problem of those who are so brainwashed they believe that fat somehow renders someone automatically worthless in all ways, not mine. That stick isn’t up my ass. It’s up the ass of the sheeple who believe that hype.

    Why should I let their problem be my problem?

    Like


  322. aoefe,

    This guy is a messed up. Have nothing to do with him.

    Move on and be glad he left you.

    Like


  323. PA,

    I guess that was a shit test. This might be fun to discuss.

    I would have said:

    “Really? Anybody I know?”

    Like


  324. The thing is, though, Nicole, it isn’t the case that most divorces are due to men leaving their older wives for younger women. That happens, sure, but most divorces, per marriage counselors, are due to women falling out of love with their husbands. Often that’s because their husband has either gone beta in marriage or has become unattracted to his wife — which happens. You can’t force attraction, and older women are less attractive than younger ones. That’s not the issue, though, the issue is that both men and women have fucked up the idea of marriage so that it’s about personal fulfillment 24/7. If we were more comfortable saying to each other: “Yes, the marriage isn’t going to have a terrific sex life after the woman gets older and he loses interest, but if neither of them cheat and are good companions, that’s a pretty good marriage”.

    No, we don’t want that. Feminism has taught everyone to view that perfectly normal kind of marriage as a prison, and that they deserve to be fulfilled 24/7 for life. So people divorce because the marriage has cooled off, because attraction has cooled off and so on. That is silly, but it isn’t only that men are dumping their wives for younger models. It’s that women are not happy in comfortable companionate marriages that are low passion after a few years. They want more, and they divorce to get it.

    Like


  325. “Really? Anybody I know?”

    That’s a good answer too but I’d use it if she was in a casual or bitchy mood. In this case she was pouting like a kittycat so a melodramatic answer was better.

    Like


  326. Joel I believe you’re right. The happy ending is for me, he’s in a crap pile of troubles and I’m a free sailor-chick. 🙂

    Like


  327. Re: Aoefe

    His attempt to come back to you makes him a beta and thus, no longer attractive and worthy of sex. A few more slip ups and he too may join the world of the sub-human male.

    “can i get a tattoo?”

    “only if it accentuates your cuteness.”

    David: Act like a fucking grown up and stop asking me stupid questions with no meaning. Stupid golddigger.

    Like


  328. Novaseeker, you can’t force attraction, but people are generally attracted to what they feel they need. Some of it is backwards rationalizing, but some of it is conscious. You wouldn’t for instance, get with a guy just because you can recognize that he’s cute. He doesn’t have what you’re looking for so, as beautiful as he may be, he’s not the one for you.

    Western men are disqualifying the women who are like their grandmothers and great grandmothers were. For the most part, their idea of “ideal” has become a hairless man with boobs, and they pursue women as close to this “ideal” as they can afford.

    That divorces are initiated by women more often tells me something has gone wrong with the selection process. Men are selecting women who just “fall out of love” with the fathers of their children without being beaten or something. I can barely wrap by brain around how that can happen to anyone, and neither can most nurturing women I know.

    The conclusion that most of us reach is that these women never loved these men to begin with. So the guys basically selected women with no real emotional attachment to them.

    How does that happen?

    I’d like to believe that men are being utterly fooled in record numbers, and that women have some magical mojo that can convince a guy they’re not in love with, that they’re in love. That would be naive though. In my observation, time and time again, guys are worried too much about “hot” and not enough about suitable and attached.

    Sometimes I have warned friends and acquaintances, “That woman doesn’t love you. She’s not even lying convincingly.” They tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. A few years down the road, they’re getting divorced or finding out she’s been cheating on them almost since the first year, etc.

    I mean, maybe it’s natural selection, and they deserve their suffering, but when it reaches a certain number/proportion that’s a little more than a few manipulative women getting lucky. It’s a trend…and likely the result of another trend that facilitated it.

    Like


  329. The conclusion that most of us reach is that these women never loved these men to begin with. So the guys basically selected women with no real emotional attachment to them.

    How does that happen?

    Nicole —

    I think it happens because men and women are looking for what’s “in it for them” when it comes to marriages. Neither men nor women are generally looking for the kinds of men and women that their grandparents were, really. The culture has shifted, and both men and women feel entitled to much more out of life — men want more than just attachment and suitability, they want hot, and when they marry hot women and get dumped then they are surprised by that, stupidly (although I am sure that this can be staved off to some degree by running game like DFH does). Women also want more than attachment and suitability, they want hot passion, and when they marry men who supply that in abundance they are shocked that many other women want him too and he gives in to that and cheats on them. Both men and women are thinking “what is in it for me”, and selecting on that basis — reaching for the golden goose, if you will, and then being surprised that because everyone else wants that same goose, you have to mate guard like crazy, even when you don’t feel like mate guarding several years in — and if you don’t aggressively mate guard, your marriage is done.

    Like


  330. I respond earnestly: “I would never betray you.” Then wait a beat and add with a flourish, “even when I am unfaithful with my body, I’m never unfaithful with my heart.”

    Sounds like beta talk to me. The proper answer would be to imply yes, but simply because she’s ugly and used up and replaceable and that her days of sucking your paycheck are over. But your answer reeks of beta romanticism…

    Why I run game on women I don’t intend to bang

    Your answers admittedly do make some sense, but it seems entirely silly to me to go through the effort of trying to run game on woman you’re not going to bang. Of course, you view game as effortless while I view it as a painful and mentally tiring exercise in trying to appeal to crude urges.

    Like


  331. some omega:
    Hey, how should my friend have responded? Thanks.

    (01:50:22) J: i was shit tested today
    (01:50:31) Omega: ya?
    (01:50:32) Jason: even though tiff has no interests in getting a tattoo
    (01:50:42) J: she asked me, “can i get a tattoo”
    (01:50:52) J: i said “up to you”
    (01:50:55) J: and she was mad

    “can i get a tattoo?”

    “only if it accentuates your cuteness.”

    Like


  332. that they deserve to be fulfilled 24/7 for life

    Why should I keep you around and devote all of my resources to you if you can’t keep me fulfilled 24/7? There’s a cheaper version of that called a friend.

    Like


  333. @DA – His attempt to come back to you makes him a beta and thus, no longer attractive and worthy of sex.

    Nah he’s just ensuring he won’t be alone – getting his back-up plans in place.

    Like


  334. Cannon/Obsidian

    I don’t think this guy is for me no. I think my relationship with him prior to coming to here made me very interested in what takes place in this forum and I stayed to learn about what makes men tick. I’ve learned a lot. His re-entry into my life I’ve entertained only to see what his game strategy is. I just couldn’t understand it which is why I posed the question above.

    In regards to him I think although he’s an alpha male and financially well off he’s emotionally unstable and immature and not a good ltr prospect. I don’t think he’s able to emotionally disconnect affairs and he’d not be able to run two relationships well at the same time (recent case in point). The roller coaster that life would be with him would be too difficult for my nature.

    Like


  335. tjf: “What a compelling and intelligent counter-argument.”
    —finally, kid, you say something intelligent. Good job.

    Warpig, lol, you deserve no respects because your “arguments” are irrational, self-serving, and illogical. Now take your fat, lonely ass full of blaming white people and men for all your problems down to the shelter, pick out 3 cats, and resign yourself to nothingness.

    Like


  336. Aoefe,
    You know, sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar, and no high falutin’ “analysis” is needed. Dude’s got problems, the end.

    As for the other part of it though, I was just talking about this earlier-Women are going to have to do some serious readjustments in regards to what they want in a Man is concerned. That means, especially, wrt money and earning.

    Because, the simple and basic fact of the matter is, the pool of high powered, high status and high earning Men, is getting smaller and smaller-and unless you’re willing to be part of a harem-and trust me Aoefe, you WILL be part of a harem, whether you wanna be or not-it means Women in our time are going to have to come up w/other criteria as to what makes a Good Man.

    Nature says, that those animals who do not make adjustments to the changed habitat, die. In human social dynamics terms today, it means for Women, that unless they’re willing to make some changes in how they do business, they’re basically setting themselves up to be alone for a goodly chunk of their lives.

    As always, Black America sets the tone in this regard-the plain truth of the matter is that there aren’t enough high powered Black Men to go around for similarly placed Black Women. Therefore, something has to give.

    Sad to say though, quite a few Black Women, for all their supposed smarts, brainpower and education, refuse to grow up and live on life’s terms, as all other mature adults must, and as adaptable animals in nature do. They instead “choose” to remains single, I put it that way because it really isn’t a choice, anymore than Sodini chose to be celibate.

    And they’re miserable. Trust me, I’ve seen it firsthand. Too many times.

    Not only are Women in our time being called to make mate selection criteria adjustments, they’re also being pressed to recognize that merely being educated, or financially successful, has no bearing on being a jerk. Indeed, just yesterday, me and PA were pointing this out to Dave Alex, wrt blogger Half Sigma.

    Just some thoughts. Holla back

    The Obsidian

    Like


  337. Alert The Media: Roosh has gone Hipster

    [editor: wow. there’s so much in that pic. so very very much. starting with his butt buddy’s limpwristed dangling hands.]

    Like


  338. on August 16, 2009 at 1:37 pm Anonymous for now

    Dana:

    maybe if dumb fuckin’ broads would stop posting pictures of themselves here they wouldn’t get their looks torn up and need random female posters to rush to their aid and tell them how “oh no!! you’re BEAUTIFUL!!!! no! don’t listen to the mean men really!”.

    this isn’t a dating site–if you want your ideas taken seriously and post a pic you will either: a) be too pretty for anyone to care what you are saying and get torn down for sport and to keep you humble or b) be so ugly you inspire hatred in men, thereby usually also negating what you have to say, especially if you say it in a loopy, whimsical style that’s already difficult to tolerate.

    just my 2 cents on that issue

    Hope was not posting pictures of herself here. None of the pics on her blog are sexual in nature. It was the man who took the time to find her pics and offer his opinion on her looks, more than what she was commenting about.

    It’s sad that we are still in a place as a society where women cannot be listened to first–apart from their looks.

    Hope did not need me to “rush to her aid”–nor was I doing so. I was responding to an absurd idea (that she is ugly), just as I would respond to any absurd idea.

    I think we are all aware that this is not a dating site, but thank you for stating the obvious anyway.

    Like


  339. anonymous for now

    and all women

    the world doesn’t give a flying fuck about what women think is “sad” or how women think things “should” be.

    the world isn’t somehow defective because you are WRONG about how it is or want it to be different.

    reality doesn’t care about your normative little shaming words opinion

    Like


  340. on August 16, 2009 at 1:43 pm Anonymous for now

    Nature says, that those animals who do not make adjustments to the changed habitat, die. In human social dynamics terms today, it means for Women, that unless they’re willing to make some changes in how they do business, they’re basically setting themselves up to be alone for a goodly chunk of their lives.

    Obviously, the same can be said for men who do not accept the change in women’s role and presence in society–and the feminism that brought it about.

    Like


  341. I have a similar story to Dave’s – a shitty marriage that was on it’s way to divorce court. My financial situation was such that it would have meant being broke in my mother’s basement (at 30ish), so I placated her until I was so sick of it that I just didn’t give a shit anymore, and stopped placating her. I didn’t know what game was, but what I did was similar to what Dave did. That’s when things started to turn around.

    Several people here said things like:

    “Anyone who acts like that [Dave’s wife] be kicked to the curb.”

    I doubt that those people have taken a close look at what the courts do to guys who get divorced (especially if there are kids involved). I was shocked when I found out how much it would have cost when I looked into it. It’s well worth it to do just about anything to avoid divorce.

    Like


  342. Indeed, just yesterday, me and PA were pointing this out to Dave Alex, wrt blogger Half Sigma.

    One must admit that it’s probably far better to be a bitter and jealous Jewish sub-human male with money than a black sub-human male with no money.

    In human social dynamics terms today, it means for Women, that unless they’re willing to make some changes in how they do business, they’re basically setting themselves up to be alone for a goodly chunk of their lives.

    The problem is that nobody wants the harem, due to the fact that it’s basically the monopolization of females by alphas, which leaves being single and childless as the only acceptable choice for women. Impoverishing women to force them onto betas is NOT a solution.

    Like


  343. Not only are Women in our time being called to make mate selection criteria adjustments, they’re also being pressed to recognize that merely being educated, or financially successful, has no bearing on being a jerk.

    @Obsidian —

    This is one reason why I think we will see the current microtrend of polyandry grow over the coming years. It will never be the norm, but it will be more prominent than it is today: women selecting lesser earning men as “husbands” based on stability and so on while reserving the right to have boyfriends on the side for passion and romance. If Guy Garcia is right and “men are the new women”, then this is in the cards, because men will be at the economic mercy of women, and women may, to some degree, choose to have men around that they aren’t sexually attracted to because they are stable, just as powerful men of yore had wives who may not have been beautiful but were good wives and mothers, while the men had mistresses on the side.

    In many ways feminism is simply reversing things, and placing women in the dominant economic role in society. You’re right that this implies that women should select men on a different basis, but my guess is that hypergamy is too strong a force for most women to really circumvent it. I don’t think it’s a matter of “adaptation” — is it easy for men to adapt to be attracted to unattractive women? I don’t think we’ll see a huge trend of women suddenly choosing un-hypergamous men as mates other than in a polyandrous context where the hypergamous lover is still in the picture.

    Like


  344. the same can be said for men who do not accept the change in women’s role and presence in society–and the feminism that brought it about

    Except that going along with feminism is maladaptive for men because women will continue to reward non-feminist men with their affections and and their wombs.

    And scorn the ones who “accept the change in women’s role and presence in society” as LJBF at their most benevolent and cuckold provider Beta kitchen bitch at their most malign.

    Like


  345. I was shocked when I found out how much it would have cost when I looked into it. It’s well worth it to do just about anything to avoid divorce.

    In theory it’s not that bad. Yes, you may live in your mom’s basement, but it makes far more sense to run game and bang new women then use game on an old woman and have the responsibilities of having to take care of her and the children while having to transfer all of your financial resources to take care of them.

    Like


  346. on August 16, 2009 at 1:54 pm Anonymous for now

    The “world” cares a lot more than it used to about what women think, and the tides are continually changing and shifting.

    The world is learning to listen more to women. Some people have chosen to listen to women more b/c these people are logical and good, and it makes sense to do so; some people have been forced by societal changes to listen to women.

    I’m not shaming anyone; I was speaking to the reality that the woman in question is not ugly.

    Like


  347. on August 16, 2009 at 1:55 pm Anonymous for now

    I meant to include this reference in my comment above to Dana:

    anonymous for now

    and all women

    the world doesn’t give a flying fuck about what women think is “sad” or how women think things “should” be.

    the world isn’t somehow defective because you are WRONG about how it is or want it to be different.

    reality doesn’t care about your normative little shaming words opinion

    Like


  348. Lurker, fortunately, you don’t get to decide what I deserve. You will treat me with respect, or I will not treat you with respect.

    Your concerns will be addressed when you word them as concerns rather than presumptions based on your wishful thinking of my inferiority.

    Prove your superior mentality. Hearsay is not good enough for me.

    Like


  349. @obsidian – You know, sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar, and no high falutin’ “analysis” is needed

    I am very, very guilty of over analysis, a weakness I have to be sure. That said you seem to do quite a bit of it yourself. 🙂

    As far as being part of a harem I’ve stated before I’m prepared to share. That said I don’t want to be the other woman, I want to be the primary. I understand that most men can compartmentalize sex and relationship. I believe men want both and I think I provide both very well. I also believe men want and need variety and as I age they will be more and more attracted to youth or some aspects of it. Funny thing was I shared these thoughts with the alpha-ex when he came over and he was horrified. His morality (laughable) was at complete odds with the idea of open affairs. I also said I didn’t believe women should even cheat (I believe that too), and that men who accepted it weren’t my kind of men. My willingness to look at things realistically is in fact scary to men – go figure.

    Like


  350. PA:

    Except that going along with feminism is maladaptive for men because women will continue to reward non-feminist men with their affections and and their wombs.

    I’m sure you are aware of the phenomenon known as “ASD” (Anti Slut Defense).

    A woman — even if she is dripping wet with desire — will often not act on those desires out of fear of social opprobrium. The man she wants to bang has to make it easy for her to indulge in what it is she truly wants. The effective seducer realizes he has to give the woman plausible deniability so that she may convince herself “it just happened.”

    This is usually accomplished with just a few meaningless words. Then it’s on to business.

    I think you are wrong that all women “reward non-feminist men.” It’s more nuanced than that.

    I think what is happening is that there is a new form of ASD. In the same way that women want you to basically lie to them to make it easier for them to enjoy sex, they are now upping the ante and expecting men to tow the feminist party-line — at least in WORDS — and blow smoke up their asses about how wonderful women deserve to be.

    After their ego has been properly stroked, courting may be allowed to continue.

    But you are right in essence: no woman wants a man who actually ACTS like a mangina.

    They are ratcheting their expectations up higher than before: now it’s not enough to be a real man, you also have to be a real man who mouths feminist platitudes in order to blow up their egos.

    This of course will have disastrous social consequences if everyone is advocating unrealistic feminist drivel, just in order to make sex happen.

    But this could only be averted if men as a group willingly gave up their chance for sex with hotties in order to express their disagreement.

    How likely is that?

    Like


  351. Anon 4 Now

    If you have been here for more than an hour or two you would grasp that the main subject here is the workings of the sexual instinct in human females. “Feminism” has done nothing and can do nothing to change the underlying reality.
    What has happened over the last few decades is that most of the normal, historic restraints on the open expression of these true instincts have been dismantled. The big factors in the process have been (as many have pointed out)
    1. Reliable contraception
    2 Abortion on demand
    3. A technologically developed world where single women can find easy, safe inside jobs that allow them to support kids without any particular man That plus welfare support of single moms.
    4. Day to day convenience – everything can be store bought. No one needs to be in a relationship to get ordinary domestic needs met. All you need is a valid charge card.
    With the partial exception of no. 2, feminism has been a passive, irrelevant bystander to the other critical developments. And if those things were reversed, feminism would vanish overnight.
    So, back to the real matter at hand

    Like


  352. Aoefe, because of the herd idealizing monogamy, a woman who realistically accepts polygamy is seen as “oppressed” or of low value.

    Only a very independent guy should even be offered that option because only such a man would be able to see it as a license to love, not a license to exploit.

    Like


  353. on August 16, 2009 at 2:14 pm Anonymous for now

    PA:

    Except that going along with feminism is maladaptive for men because women will continue to reward non-feminist men with their affections and their wombs.

    And scorn the ones who “accept the change in women’s role and presence in society” as LJBF at their most benevolent and cuckold provider Beta kitchen bitch at their most malign.

    I think “feminism” is used too loosely and interchangeably with “misandry” here.

    Feminism defined is complete equality and protection for women. Feminism was necessary b/c of…well, obvious reasons of which we’re all aware. Equality with me does equate hatred of men.

    A woman can be very feminine and still expect equality, i.e. to be seen as a man’s equal in every way. Deserving equality does not demand weakness or submissiveness in another person. I would not want to be partnered with a person who was not strong in himself.

    I think it’s very easy for a healthy, strong male to adapt in a society where women still respect men and the differences between the sexes, but will not allow themselves to be treated like a children or in subservient manner.

    Like


  354. Nicole,

    Replies below:

    OBSIDIAN: Yes, and no. Yes, going for niche market appeal does have its benefits. But in so doing, by definition, it means limiting the potential “market share” you can get. So it, like everything else, has its up and down sides.”

    N: As yet, I haven’t seen a downside for any of the women who’ve chosen this route. There are always more independent thinking males than females. Many of them would prefer to be with a mate with similar abilities so as to reduce the chances of having what they view as mentally deficient children…or for some, any children at all.

    O: And you get this information from what definitive Male source? LOL. No dis to you Nicole, but I can tell you, that if the average Bruh on the block had half a chance at getting up in Beyonce’, he’s taking it.

    “N: No woman should *ever* bank her future on the fickle, feminized western men today.

    O: W/all due respect Nicole, the beauty/youth standard is pretty constant accross cultures and times.”

    N: …but in no civilized culture is it standard practice to replace wives with impunity, for the “sin” of getting older. Even when they legally have that option, most wouldn’t do it because their sons might rather their mother be a widow than a divorcee.

    O: I don’t know what history books you’re reading, w/all due respect. In just about every culture, whenver the chance presented itself to do so, the males of said culture invariably chose younger/beautiful Women, even as consorts, over older/homley Women. That’s Asia, Russia, Western Europe, Africa, you name it. Now, if you say otherwise, please show me the evidence?

    N: In western culture, on the other hand, women are utterly disposable when they are older. Once their youth and beauty is gone, they are considered obsolete by men who supposedly loved them. Guys in arranged marriages manage to do better than that in cultures where a man would be excused for killing his wife for mouthing off.

    N: That’s not true. In fact, I was just talking to Brown Sugah about this earlier, about how the Wise Woman or Crone or what we call in the hood Big Mama-the older, wiser Woman who advised younger Women in the neighborhood-has kinda gone extinct in our time-a *recent* development I might add. I told her about the importance of such Women in the lives of younger Women, and how that was true in my own life, as my great grandmother wisely advised my mom to marry my dad while I was still an infant, because in her words “you need a father for your son”. That was in the Spring of 1969. Four decades later, there aren’t any Big Mamas around like that anymore, a kind of social capital that the West has long had, in the form of midwives, etc. We don’t hear those words that my GGM told my mom anymore. THAT’S what’s changed, Nicole. And trust me, Men had little if anything to do w/that.

    “Please name me a culture or a timeframe, where considerably homely and older Women were the go-to choice for the majority of Men in said culture and timeframe?”

    N: I wasn’t talking about go-to. I was talking about stay-with.

    O: ? You still haven’t answered my questioned as posed above. Your reply, historically based, please?

    “This isn’t personal, Nicole, unlike the majority of guys here, I have no vested interest in this thing one way or another, and if anything I’ve proven to have personal tastes that run a bit counter to what most guys here profess to like. But that doesn’t stop me from simply affirming the facts on the ground. Men didn’t make these rules, Nicole, anymore than Women made the shit test rules. They are, what they are. And no amount of railing against it will change things. The smartest thing to do, like you said, is focus on those who want to be bothered.”

    N: I’m not railing against the rules. I’m railing against those who rail against the rules. The easiest way to make yourself obsolete, as a male, is to lose the key features of masculinity: protectiveness, honor, territorialism, and the like.

    O: No, the easiest way to make yourself obsolete as a Male is to simply sitdown, so says Mystery. And he’s right.

    “N: IMO, “ugly” girls shouldn’t even have casual sex. Once you know that for either social or so-called “objective” reasons, you’re being devalued, you should not play a game in which you are a loser by default.

    O: I don’t necessarily disagree w/you, but your point assumes that the Women are merely being taken for a ride-they may indeed be. But what if they wanted the sex too?”

    N: Are you willing to have sex with someone who despises you?

    O: Nicole, you said it yourself, guys have a completely different calculus when it comes to sex than most Women do. Most guys couldn’t care less if a Woman cums, do you honestly think a guy cares if the gal he’s screwing hates his guts or not? LOL! All that matters, is that he’s getting up in HER guts at that moment. If I’m wrong about that the fellas here will let me know.

    N: Would you keep having sex with someone if you found out that behind your back, they were telling other women how dirty and inferior you are, and what a sucker you are for doing it with them?

    O: That’s a good question, and for all I know, that may have happened to me. So you may be onto something there.

    “Should they then not have sex, even if its casual and fleeting, w/Men who really don’t want them for longterm mates?”

    N: You and I both know it’s not that simple. If it was being done with a “free love” kind of vibe, there probably wouldn’t be a problem. It’s not done out of love though. Western men feel contempt for women who aren’t close enough to their often maladaptive and masculinized “feminine ideal”.

    O: That may be, but the point is, if a Woman grows into being an adult and doesn’t honestly have any idea of her relative worth or the lack thereof out there on the sexual market, she’s got much bigger problems than what we’re discussing here.

    “Listen, Nicole…I understand where you’re coming from. And again, I don’t think you’re completely off base. But the fact of the matter is, for some Women, the most they’re ever gonna get is some pump and dump.”

    N: I accept that, and would personally rather go without. If someone else is desperate enough to let heterosexual faggots use their bodies to masturbate, that’s their business. I’m not that desperate, and would rather eat lead.

    O: OK, but again, you’re assuming that Women, in this case homely ones, don’t like to fuck too. I can tell you that’s wrong.

    “I don’t like it, wish it were different, but that’s just the way it is, and its hardly new. Why deny a Woman that bit of pleasure in this world?”

    N: Pleasure?

    O: Yup. Pleasure.

    N: You overestimate the enthusiasm of a guy who feels he’s slumming.

    O: And you presumptively judge, by your own admittedly noncommonplace criteria, the actions and rationale of others.

    “Why automatically assume that she’s being devalued and used? All Women want to be desired, and for such a Woman, she is, even if its for a short while. That beats a blank. And who am I to knock her for that?”

    N: I don’t knock desperate women. I pity them. It is a mental state I hope to never find myself in. If I do, I’ll know I’ve gone mad or am perhaps showing early signs of Alzheimer’s.

    O: It is not my job to analyze or otherwise “pity” others. If a Woman wants to have sex and she’s not being coerced to do so, more power to her. The end.

    “N: If a woman’s looks are the be-all and end-all of her value to men in general, she’d do best not to be available at all to the general kind of men.

    O: Fair enough. But the other side to that argument is, if a Man’s material worth is the be all end all to Women in general, perhaps he’d be wise to avoid the vast majority of Women.”

    N: A certain degree of money is necessary to raise a child. Looking like a Playboy centerfold isn’t necessary to raise a child.

    O: No, but it is required to make one w/few chances of being born w/defects, or just plain homely.

    “Of course, while that sounds great in theory and on the printed page, we all know it simply doesn’t work that way, because Women, even in a time when they go to school and outearn Men in many ways, still expect to have a well earning Man in their life. Period. The facts on the ground, be damned. ”

    N: There is a point in both these situations, that people become unreasonable. It is reasonable to want one’s children to have enough to eat, and relative security. It is not reasonable to require that a woman stay young and beautiful forever on penalty of having her family fall apart.

    O: No, but it is quite reasonable, even in our time now, for a Man to want to select a relatively younger and more beautiful Woman in order to bring about said child to care for to begin with.
    N: In this sort of social climate, mercanaries will, as I said, take the money and run proactively.

    O: I have no problem in the least w/mercs. So long as the agreement is made and understood on all sides, I’m cool with that.

    “Something to think about, hmm?”

    N: Well, I’ve done my thinking, and I’ve never been desperate enough to have sex with someone I considered substandard. All I do by keeping my legs closed is to afford men a similar dignity. I won’t be available for them to lose their self respect in.

    O: I can respect that. All’ I’m saying is that it might be a bit much to assume that everyone else thinks the same way, or should.

    N: I’m simply not wasting a minute or two of their time in search of the unicorn.

    O: I can dig it.

    The Obsidian

    Liked by 1 person


  355. only a woman* of low value openly allows encourages polygamy, a woman of high value may turn a blind eye to her good man’s infidelities or just prefer not to know–but all of the HBO real sex type loser polyamory freaks are butt ugly fat old pigs that are just doing anything possible to get a minute of cock they otherwise wouldn’t be able to get if they had any standards.

    * this applies only to american women, women of other cultures may be different

    Like


  356. nicole – “a woman who realistically accepts polygamy is seen as “oppressed” or of low value”

    Ya that makes sense. I forget that spending time here and having these types of discussions is not the norm for the rest of society. It could easily sound like I don’t think I’m worth a man’s full attention and that’s not the case at all. In fact I’m quite confident about my worth (high) but feel I understand the nature of men. Hmmmm… I don’t think I’ll be bringing that particular subject up with my next love interest. heh

    Like


  357. “complete equality and protection for women”

    and you con’t see those two things are mutually incompatible? anyone that needs “protected” is by DEFINITION unequal to the protectors.

    and when you say COMPLETE equality what do you mean? where are all the equal women on the frontlines of the most dangerous, dirty, disgusting, deadly, smelly jobs? where were all of the women running in to the towers and dying to rescue people? where are all the women coal miners and oil wildcatters?

    dear god, please let all the men go on strike in the US, please let all men quit being police, firemen, soldier, pilots, electrical engineers, construction workers, surgeons, man it would be worth having civilization crumble to watch all the equal women get raped and pillaged by whatever smelly little brown country decided to come invade us to take them

    Like


  358. My willingness to look at things realistically is in fact scary to men – go figure.

    It’s rather weird in my case since I’m pro-abortion, pro-pre-martial sex, yet I look upon adultery by either sex as one of the greatest sins possible. I don’t think I could be happy in a relationship where I had to cheat on my wife in order to get my sexual needs fulfilled, and I’d rather endure the heavy penalty of divorce or just go sexless in lieu of adultery even if it was “approved” by her. I still cling to the notion that if you get married, you took a vow to be faithful to each other and to forsake others, and that if you can’t meet that basic requirement, either you should not get married or you should leave the marriage to pursue your needs.

    That said I don’t want to be the other woman, I want to be the primary.

    Then you can’t share. In the harem, you’re always the other woman.

    I understand that most men can compartmentalize sex and relationship. I believe men want both and I think I provide both very well.

    Aeofe can provide both very well in the same way that David Alexander can be a faithful loving alpha male husband.

    I also believe men want and need variety

    Then men shouldn’t get married then.

    My willingness to look at things realistically is in fact scary to men – go figure.

    Some of us don’t like your viewpoint. It eats away at our once optimistic and colourful of relationships since it takes some of the fun out of being a beta male.

    Like


  359. Anonymous for Now

    Feminism defined is complete equality and protection for women.

    The statement feminists often put out about seeking true equality between men and women is pure squid ink. Watch what feminists do, not what they say.

    What feminist do time and again is seek every advantage for women at the expense of men they can. They rarely if ever seek equal burdens, only equal or better privileges.

    Women are not in fact fully equal to men, and it’s high time that men stopped going along with some nostrum that they should be.

    Men naturally lead women, and are built so as to be able to overpower them and master them.

    Women are to be sure of equal human dignity with men, and every bit as valuable for the species. They are natural partners of men. Natural following partners.

    Not every man is a natural leader over every woman, to be sure, and some women are far more capable than some men, or for that matter, even physically stronger or rougher and tougher than some men.

    Nonetheless, most women are happiest, as are most men, when they find a man that can naturally lead them, in a close and all but equal partnership. In fact there’s no harm in saying it’s fully equal, and in our culture tends to make everyone feel better when that’s what we do.

    Like


  360. A woman can be very feminine and still expect equality, i.e. to be seen as a man’s equal in every way.

    In every way?

    When a man insults me, I punch him in the face. When a woman insults me, I coldly ignore her.

    Look, you are talking in Freshman orientation cliches that have no more real life applicability or validation than unicorns and pumpkin carriages. When I hear “equality” and other content-free buzzwards, my eyes glaze over because I have no idea what you mean by that word.

    Like


  361. Men naturally lead women, and are built so as to be able to overpower them and master them.

    Thus, women are inferior to men.

    Like


  362. @dana – ‘but all of the HBO real sex type loser polyamory freaks are butt ugly fat old pigs that are just doing anything possible to get a minute of cock they otherwise wouldn’t be able to get if they had any standards.”

    Dana you are so right. I investigated the local D/s kink community to see if I fit. I was scorned at my first submissives women’s meeting. The women were very threatened by me. I was surrounded with very obese, unattractive, socially weird chicks. I went twice to see if my first impression was off. Nope they were being very rude to me. Someone told me later that if I had gone to a play party* I would have been surrounded by their men and they would have been ignored. I’m speaking only about my experience but it seemed to me that yes indeed the people who belonged to the openly kinky group were people who wouldn’t get laid in everyday life. I got involved hoping to meet a man who understood his own need for dominance in a relationship – an alpha. For the most part the men I met were also very unattractive by most standards and anything but dominant. They may have called themselves Doms but they were play acting to please women – now that’s some twisted thinking. I was able to leave that particular mate searching strategy quite easily.

    *play party concept is gross to me and I would never and will never ever allow myself to be subjected to others prying eyes and hands. Ewwww.

    Like


  363. Yes

    from now on, whenever any equal woman engages in what would be considered “fighting words” between men, men should be free to punch them in the face

    equality

    Like


  364. aoefe, thats the thing

    the whole dom/sub thing is still female worship–the domination is bs play acting with “safe words” and all that crap. it all revolves around some fat douchebag broads wishes, not the man’s.

    look into takeninhand.com

    Like


  365. on August 16, 2009 at 2:31 pm Anonymous for now

    Rum:

    “Feminism” has done nothing and can do nothing to change the underlying reality.
    What has happened over the last few decades is that most of the normal, historic restraints on the open expression of these true instincts have been dismantled. The big factors in the process have been (as many have pointed out)
    1. Reliable contraception
    2 Abortion on demand
    3. A technologically developed world where single women can find easy, safe inside jobs that allow them to support kids without any particular man That plus welfare support of single moms.
    4. Day to day convenience – everything can be store bought. No one needs to be in a relationship to get ordinary domestic needs met. All you need is a valid charge card.
    With the partial exception of no. 2, feminism has been a passive, irrelevant bystander to the other critical developments. And if those things were reversed, feminism would vanish overnight.

    You are right. Your 4-point list is a result of a naturally evolving society (some of which was furthered greatly by feminism); however, what feminism has done is ensure women can vote and hold property; that they have access to any job for which they are qualified…that they cannot be abused by their spouse, cannot be forced to feel they must comply sexually in order to advance and earn the money they need, and that they will continue to enjoy a life that will never revert back to being nothing more than a valuable possession, only good for breeding–amongst other things.

    And it will not vanish b/c unlike people who hate feminism, the rest of the world does not want to revert and retreat to caves.

    Like


  366. DA:

    I also believe men want and need variety

    Then men shouldn’t get married then.

    Then how do YOU propose children be raised, because you know, like, there is such a thing called the future.

    Like


  367. @afn

    *sigh* So many issues.

    I think “feminism” is used too loosely and interchangeably with “misandry” here.

    Feminism defined is complete equality and protection for women.

    And right there is a contradiction. Any equality that *requires* simultaneous “protection” is a tilting, not an equality. Women do not want a level playing field, they want one tilted in their favor — in relationships, in the workplace, in education. Everywhere. It’s a new definition of “equality” — that’s precisely the problem.

    Equality with me does equate hatred of men.

    Except as a practical matter, it has tended to be just that. The reason is that men and women are not “equal” in anything other than a contrived way. Men and women have respective strengths and weaknesses. That means they are more complementary than equal. Men’s advantages are not only physical strength, but certain types of mental processing (look at the example of chess). Women have their own mental processing advantages, and others as well. When the umbrella word “equality” is used, these differences are hated, become the subject of hatred, as in today’s completely misguided push for parity in the STEM subjects. It’s a kind of “pro forma equality” that is ultimately disrespectful of real differences between men and women and downright hateful of anyone who suggests such differences exist.

    And even beyond that, feminism has long advocated the completely unequal, biased, and prejudicial legal system when it comes to issues impacting men and women, divorce and so on. So frankly the whole canard about equality is rather unconvincing at this stage. We know better by now.

    If the feminists were about equality then AAUW wouldn’t be publishing self-serving, biased “studies” to prevent anything being done about the widely divergent matriculation rates in colleges as between boys and girls. If the feminists were about equality then groups like NOW would not be outright against shared custody and shared parenting. And those are just two very obvious examples. The equality slogan is a canard, intended to distract people from the real goal of the feminist movement: empowerment of women, full stop, whether that results in equality or not. When it doesn’t result in equality (e.g., STEM, chess), then they push for “parity” to get equality of result. When it results in equality or better for women (family law, college matriculation and graduation rates), then they advocate preservation of the status quo and warn against “false ideas of equality” (as in family law) or defend the status quo on some theory that women are just smarter, and people need to get used to that.

    Sorry, many more of us than ever before are seeing through the ruse — the equality mantra is a smoke screen.

    As always, watch what the feminists *do* rather than listening to what they *say*.

    Like


  368. aoefe:

    Dana you are so right. I investigated the local D/s kink community to see if I fit. I was scorned at my first submissives women’s meeting. The women were very threatened by me. I was surrounded with very obese, unattractive, socially weird chicks.

    Nicole wept.

    Like


  369. @dana:

    “the world doesn’t give a flying fuck about what women think is “sad” or how women think things “should” be.

    the world isn’t somehow defective because you are WRONG about how it is or want it to be different.

    reality doesn’t care about your normative little shaming words opinion”

    Oh look everyone. It’s the internet police. WEEOOWEEOO.

    Oh divine one who has achieved absolute objectivity and omniscience, please tell me why your opinion is worth more than anyone else’s. You yourself said that no one cares about women’s shaming opinions, but you seem to be quite skilled in doing it yourself.

    Like


  370. good reading comprehension skills as usual mandy

    i said REALITY didn’t care about shaming words like “sad” not “people”.

    god why can’t women fuckin’ read?

    Like


  371. Dana…you watch too much television.

    However Aoefe, this is an example of what the American general herd thinks of polyamorous people. They’ve only seen FLDS, Muslims, and HBO. They missed fringe among intellectuals since Nietzsche because it wasn’t televised.

    Like


  372. @tupac:

    “Then how do YOU propose children be raised, because you know, like, there is such a thing called the future.”

    Psssh..not after 2012.😛

    Like


  373. @dana:

    Because reading is for faggots.

    ;]

    Like


  374. Ghost of Nicole

    Heheheh…Welmer, I’m not rushing to anyone’s defense. I personally think she should never have married the psychic vampire. I don’t know if she could have or should have stayed with him, but I do know that sometimes women, especially Asian women, don’t always give the full details of their own motivations.

    Seems to me one of her motivations is getting the guy thrown in prison. She wrote that he was on the verge of mass murder, for God’s sake.

    If anyone here doesn’t think a woman’s accusations are serious business, they’ve never been through a bad divorce.

    I’m writing this as a guy who has literally stared down the barrel of a gun simply for filing for divorce and custody of my children. No DV ever, clean record, no police involvement for my entire relationship and marriage, and all it took was one phone call and a lie to send a tactical team to my house. I can only be grateful that the cops saw through the bullshit before it escalated to forced entry and a possible shooting.

    Given what Hope has written about her relationship with her ex, including frequent explosive fights, police involvement, etc., I’d say she is serious trouble. We all know DV is NOT one-sided, and the women who get involved in this stuff and then make the rounds talking about how compassionate and kind they are, and what a poor little victim they been are probably the most dangerous of all.

    The problem is that lots of men are really stupid enough to believe this crap. The greatest power a young woman has is the ability to enlist others to fight her battles for her. It is a very formidable power, and whenever I see a woman using that power to go after a spouse I am extremely suspicious.

    Like


  375. Aoefe, one meeting is not the whole community. Because the focus is the kink and not looks, there are going to be people with all kinds of figures there…and many subs are actually weight managed by their Doms. That’s pretty standard, especially for the Gorean sort.

    If you were getting dirty looks or mistreated, perhaps it is because you were more focussed on the looks than the kink, and your judgmental vibe was a party pooper.

    Many people don’t get into that side of themselves until their 40’s. You can’t expect a room full of nearly naked 40+ year old women to look like a Sports Illustrated photo shoot. If you were relaxed around them, they’d be relaxed around you.

    Like


  376. Aoefe,
    Quite the contrary, what is discussed occurs in society all the time, its just we’re a lot more earnest, forward and honest about it here.

    O

    Like


  377. on August 16, 2009 at 2:46 pm Anonymous for now

    “complete equality and protection for women”

    and you con’t see those two things are mutually incompatible? anyone that needs “protected” is by DEFINITION unequal to the protectors.

    and when you say COMPLETE equality what do you mean? where are all the equal women on the frontlines of the most dangerous, dirty, disgusting, deadly, smelly jobs? where were all of the women running in to the towers and dying to rescue people? where are all the women coal miners and oil wildcatters?

    dear god, please let all the men go on strike in the US, please let all men quit being police, firemen, soldier, pilots, electrical engineers, construction workers, surgeons, man it would be worth having civilization crumble to watch all the equal women get raped and pillaged by whatever smelly little brown country decided to come invade us to take them

    I agree that men are stronger than women, and in a world were physical strength reigned supreme (like in the bowels of history) women would be at a disadvantage. But this does not make men better than women, it’s just a distinct characteristic. Just like having a womb does not make women superior to men; it’s all apart of the valuable differences.

    And based on this fact, women have needed the laws that protect them physically as well; without law forcing some men to refrain, there would be an inestimable amount of violence against women.

    where are all the equal women on the frontlines of the most dangerous, dirty, disgusting, deadly, smelly jobs?

    Certain women have no problem with these tasks, but are not always allowed to perform them.

    Like


  378. Welmer, you may be right. I’m not male, so I’m going to have blind spots about this sort of thing. However, I don’t have enough data to say whether or not she’s crying wolf. I just don’t know.

    I do appreciate your experience in this though. Maybe what you’re saying will help to drive home the seriousness of these kinds of accusations, even when they are legit.

    In all honesty, it’s not something I’d post about in public. It’s something I’d handle in private…but then I’m the kind who would do more than talk about it, and I don’t depend on anyone outside my family and close friends, so no reason to discuss it with others.

    Like


  379. lol warpig:

    “Lurker, fortunately, you don’t get to decide what I deserve.”
    –you’re mewling fat brat incapable of logical thought that isn’t drowning in self-pitying nonsense. I decide what you deserve because you are incapable of it.

    “You will treat me with respect, or I will not treat you with respect.”
    —Grr! Sounds like some fat-ass unloved cat lady went to a grrl power meeting!

    “Your concerns will be addressed when you word them as concerns rather than presumptions based on your wishful thinking of my inferiority.”
    —–lol. Note the work of a intellectual midget: she uses the most vacuous, empty phrases and $10 words to say nothing more than “Be nice to me, and let me spew my illogical crap!”

    Someone should read Orwell’s essay on politics and the english language.

    “Prove your superior mentality.”
    —Well, I can put coherent thoughts together logically in an argument. Winner: me.

    “Hearsay is not good enough for me.”
    —-lol. dogshit isn’t good enough for you.\

    Back to the slop pit, warpig! More self-pitying, blame whites and men for everrything crap coming soon!

    Like


  380. Nova

    reaching for the golden goose, if you will, and then being surprised that because everyone else wants that same goose, you have to mate guard like crazy, even when you don’t feel like mate guarding several years in — and if you don’t aggressively mate guard, your marriage is done.

    Yes, mate guarding is important. My GF loves me, and seems to believe that she won’t cheat on me. But I’d never trust her about that. I’ll be leaving her for a few weeks while I visit my other GF, and my plan is to have her stay with her mother to keep an eye on her. She’ll be travelling to bali, looking for a villa for us to rent, and I’m maker her drag her mother along.

    I used to be much more naive about love and trust, but after more life experience, I know that mate guarding is just a part of keeping a relationship going. So ya, hot girls are more work, but then, most of what is worthwhile takes work.

    Like


  381. If anyone needs a quick lesson as to whether or not mainstream feminism is really man-hatred, check out the matter of the increasing problems that boys are having with schooling. If any proposal is made to change the system in ways that might help boys learn better – and do no harm to girls experience – you can be sure that a chorus of well-placed female voices will start screeching about how boys should never get “special treatment”. Instead, they will demand that boys should learn to adapt to being treated like something they are not, ie, a girl. That most boys suffer horribly under their schemes seems to have no impact on their decisions.
    See, if feminists/educators did not hate boys they would not cause them to suffer. How complicated is that?

    Like


  382. @nicole – “and many subs are actually weight managed by their Doms. ”

    You mean they are feeding them to get them this big? Wow!

    Truthfully Nicole I’ve been interested in D/s for a long time – I know there are fantastic, intelligent, attractive people who practice this lifestyle.

    The issues are this for me:

    I’m conservative not a fringe person per se
    I’m not into group sex or public displays of sex with others
    I don’t have kink preferences beyond my desire to be submissive meaning I have no fetishes
    I’m really, really picky with men (ignore the last dude heh)

    I went to TWO meetings and I’m a very friendly person. I went with an open mind and with an open demeanor. No I’m good at picking up vibes – they were giving me the shoulder. This may not be the case in other places but it was certainly my experience.

    Like


  383. Lurker, again, the way to earn my respect is by treating me with respect. Until then, feel free to talk to yourself like the rest of the online wannabe bullies who think they’re going to make me cry by calling me names.

    I can see from the skimming that you’ve already created a rather impressive imaginary Nicole to “argue” with.

    LOL!

    Don’t let reality interrupt your fun. LOL!

    Like


  384. on August 16, 2009 at 3:01 pm Anonymous for now

    Novaseeker:

    Men and women have respective strengths and weaknesses. That means they are more complementary than equal. Men’s advantages are not only physical strength, but certain types of mental processing (look at the example of chess). Women have their own mental processing advantages, and others as well. When the umbrella word “equality” is used, these differences are hated, become the subject of hatred, as in today’s completely misguided push for parity in the STEM subjects. It’s a kind of “pro forma equality” that is ultimately disrespectful of real differences between men and women and downright hateful of anyone who suggests such differences exist.

    The term equality is used to talk about rights and liberties within society–to make sure one group of people is not the only group being advantaged–and this HAS been necessary. However, I think you and I are expressing a somewhat similar point of view: complementary and equal do not oppose each other, b/c in your case you aren’t saying one is better than the other (and neither am I).

    I think IF there is a lack of empathy on the part of women regarding the legal hardships of men, it’s b/c women have were on the losing end of that arena for so long. For men not to empathize with that, feels very misogynist.

    Like


  385. Anon 4 Now

    Do you have any idea how lame it sounds when when say, “I was not allowed to do(a nasty job)”?
    Men just do them. There is no asking permission. If some guys tell some other guys “You cannot do this” what do those guys do? Do they sit down and cry? No. They start their own companies and bid on the job.
    At one time Wall Street was not welcoming to non-wasps. The non-wasp guys just started their own firms and competed straight up with the older firms.
    For some reason, doing this seems never to occur to feminists. They would rather run to daddy (file a lawsuit). Does this make guys respect women? What do you think?

    Like


  386. Notice that Feminist For Now is replying to longish arguments but said nothing in response to my simple illustration about men being fair game for punching, women not so.

    To preempt the “women are smaller” retort, I’d still punch a small/skinny man who insults me, just maybe not with the same amount of force I’d punch a guy my size — put I’d still hit him. But not a 300-lb woman who does the same.

    Come on, freshman Diversity Studies major, is it OK in the spirit of equality to punch women who insult men in the face?

    Like


  387. on August 16, 2009 at 3:07 pm Anonymous for now

    Ghost of Nicole,

    At the risk of offending you or causing other’s to think I’m “running to your defense,” I still want to encourage you to ignore “Lurker.” If someone can’t respond to your ideas in a normal and logical way, they don’t need your attention.

    People can disagree, but there’s no need to be dehumanizing (which you have done a great job rising above, btw).

    Like


  388. Aoefe, other people are pretty good at picking up on vibes too. I entered the scene at 19 and about 120 lbs. and didn’t get any kind of a shoulder…and I was the only Black face in most of the meetings, parties, munches, and clubs I went to.

    Granted, this was about 20 years ago, but things were more closed then, not less.

    When you have more discipline, your Master will be the focus of your attention and concern, not the weight of the women around you.

    Like


  389. “I think IF there is a lack of empathy on the part of women regarding the legal hardships of men, it’s b/c women have were on the losing end of that arena for so long. For men not to empathize with that, feels very misogynist.”

    and that would be because men, not being women, have concepts like Justice in their brains that prevents them from seeing historical tit-for-tat as a form of fairness. what were the poor baby women on the losing end of? living longer? being supported? being protected from violence? not having to do the very worst work if they were above menial class? not bearing the responsibilty of ANY important decision EVER?

    Like


  390. Nicole – I was a single woman not a woman with a Master so to speak. So I was a threat. Pure and simple. Remove the kink part from it and place a group of single women in a room knowing we’re going to be meeting men and its natural to ‘size’ up your competition. Why would kinky women be any different?

    Like


  391. lol warpig:

    “Lurker, again, the way to earn my respect is by treating me with respect.”
    —I see this was a “black” grrrl power event, complete with the empty phrase repetition rituals, and demanding respect. lol.

    I no more want your respect than I want a drooling cat lady to sleep with me.

    “Until then, feel free to talk to yourself like the rest of the online wannabe bullies who think they’re going to make me cry by calling me names.”
    —-made you leave the board for a good long while, didn’t it warpig?

    “I can see from the skimming that you’ve already created a rather impressive imaginary Nicole to “argue” with.”
    —-You can’t argue with a blame whitey and men she-beast like you; you can’t argue with someone who beleives the moon is made of green cheese, and that merely asserting feminiazi lies, without proof, makes them true.

    “Don’t let reality interrupt your fun.”
    —the irony of a blame whitey and men feminist saying this is too rich.

    Like


  392. look into takeninhand.com

    That site makes me puke.

    Then how do YOU propose children be raised, because you know, like, there is such a thing called the future.

    Either children are raised in oprhanages by the state, or we’ll have to tolerate 100% single motherhood. Or we as a society can just go childless and enjoy the hedonistic ride to the end.

    That means they are more complementary than equal.

    That’s just claptrap designed to cater to some degree of sentimentality in men like yourself. In other words, it’s a mental penalty brake to prevent you from saying that women are inferior. There is no complement, if you are not equal then you are either inferior or superior.

    equality of result

    Equality of result is the only true equality. Everything else is a myth we tell ourselves to feel fuzzy and good in the morning.

    Like


  393. Oh and nicole I understand how people read other people’s vibes. I’m very good at taking my vibe temerature. These meetings were topic driven with volunteer teachers I was there to learn not judge. I had no expectations. Dana’s description above matched my experience and I was relating the story. Don’t let your imagination regarding my vibe change the story to fit what you need it to fit. I was cold shouldered. Good for you that at your meeting you weren’t. Your experience was what? Different. End of story.

    Like


  394. anonymous for now:

    “If someone can’t respond to your ideas in a normal and logical way, they don’t need your attention.”
    —–when warpig posits a logical thought, she gets something. Still waiting….

    “People can disagree, but there’s no need to be dehumanizing”
    —-lmao. Oh, the champion of the internet, because you’re bringing back decency to the warpig clan! lol. “Why do you guys have to be so mean…..”

    Want some cheese with that whine?

    “(which you have done a great job rising above, btw).”
    —lol. another SWPL phrase. You mean she has buried her head in the sand pretending that she doesn’t need to posit facts to justify her assertions.

    Like


  395. on August 16, 2009 at 3:16 pm Anonymous for now

    Rum:

    Do you have any idea how lame it sounds when when say, “I was not allowed to do(a nasty job)”?

    I was specifically thinking about women and the military, and the jobs available to them.

    PA:

    Notice that Feminist For Now is replying to longish arguments but said nothing in response to my simple illustration about men being fair game for punching, women not so.

    To preempt the “women are smaller” retort, I’d still punch a small/skinny man who insults me, just maybe not with the same amount of force I’d punch a guy my size — put I’d still hit him. But not a 300-lb woman who does the same.

    Come on, freshman Diversity Studies major, is it OK in the spirit of equality to punch women who insult men in the face?

    Why the patronizing tone? The term equality is used to talk about rights and liberties within society–to make sure one group of people is not the only group being advantaged–this is obvious to most people. It would be ridiculous to hit anyone just b/c they offended you in some way. Whether you hit a man or woman, you would be going to jail–THAT is equality.

    Like


  396. Rum

    …With the partial exception of no. 2, feminism has been a passive, irrelevant bystander to the other critical developments. And if those things were reversed, feminism would vanish overnight.
    So, back to the real matter at hand

    I share that view. Well said. Opportunity is the main force in societies, not culture.

    Some people have the notion that traditional and religious countries are sexually conservative, but that is no longer the case in the ones I’ve been to. Girls in Bali, for instance, are nearly all players. Teenagers even in remote muslim villages have sex.

    Like


  397. @Anon, GhostofNicole:

    Lurker’s irrational behavior isn’t all that unusual for him. It’s just the way he acts.

    Also, Nicole, are you talking about any specific kind of “servitude” with aoefe, or are you referring to a servitude more limited to the bedroom, or to all aspects of life?

    @xsplat:

    “Yes, mate guarding is important. My GF loves me, and seems to believe that she won’t cheat on me. But I’d never trust her about that. I’ll be leaving her for a few weeks while I visit my other GF, and my plan is to have her stay with her mother to keep an eye on her.”

    I love how people who cheat are the ones who are the most paranoid about their mates (girlfriend/wife/fiance/etc) cheating on them. It makes me wonder if they recognize these negative attributes in people better because these negative attributes lie within themselves.

    Xsplat, I don’t know if you have children or not, but if you ever end up having a daughter, will you lock her in a tower surrounded by dragons to protect her from men like you? Just curious.

    And if you find anything offensive in this post, I apologize. I actually find you very fascinating. In a strange sort of way.

    Like


  398. Either children are raised in oprhanages by the state, or we’ll have to tolerate 100% single motherhood. Or we as a society can just go childless and enjoy the hedonistic ride to the end.

    Fuck you, David.

    Like


  399. DA:

    There is no complement, if you are not equal then you are either inferior or superior.

    Is an apple inferior or superior to an orange?

    Like


  400. Anon 4 Now

    Men all over the world form militia groups to do the local fighting.
    Who, exactly, prevents local women from doing the same thing?
    And if women let someone prevent them, they are avoiding doing the job by other means.

    Like


  401. Why the patronizing tone?

    Because you have strong opinions but no charm, wit, intelligence, personality, experience, or insight backing them up.

    Like


  402. Aoefe, if you went to a meeting alone without a stand-in Master, they weren’t sizing you up as competition. They were trying to figure out of you were Domme or sub, or if you knew what you wanted at all.

    It was their poser alert that was on.

    By the time those of us who are actually participating are really into things, we aren’t really thinking much about what other women look like in a competitive sense. A Master can own as many slaves as he wants, and he simply wouldn’t keep one who displeased him.

    There isn’t a “replacement” because there isn’t monogamy except for a very small minority. No matter how cute you are, if you can’t take whatever a particular Master dishes out, you’re going to bore him.

    It’s not as much about looks in BDSM because it’s not as much about shagging.

    As hard as it is to find a decent woman, it’s even harder to find a decent woman who can take and obey orders. Much of the time, there’s a trade off.

    If however, you get in the hands of a good Master while you’re young though, you can be pretty sure he’s not going to replace you when you’re older. You may eventually be fortunate enough to be entrusted with training the newcomers.

    Like


  403. Mandy!😄

    Xsplat, I don’t know if you have children or not, but if you ever end up having a daughter, will you lock her in a tower surrounded by dragons to protect her from men like you? Just curious.

    Why would you think a guy would have the same kind of sexual jealousy about his daughter as about his girlfriend or wife?

    Isn’t that a little twisted?

    I’d think most guys would be mainly concerned about a daughter getting pregnant or infected with something, but otherwise wouldn’t want to think about her sex life. In fact, for me, that’s one of the last things I’d want to know about.

    Like


  404. @dana:

    ” being protected from violence?”
    Historically, women weren’t technically, organizationally protected from violence like they have been for more than a century. Before the dawn of the 20th century laws were passed to prevent men from beating their wives.

    Of course, most laws involving protecting women from violence are enabled and enforced by men.

    Either way, I’m speaking, that from a historical context, it wasn’t always so. At least, not in that sense.

    “not bearing the responsibilty of ANY important decision EVER?”

    Women could bear children. (or choose not to, even historically, there were some forms of birth control, although none as effective as the ones available today). Choosing whether or not to bring life into the world is a pretty important decision, although nowhere near as obvious and moving, as, say, writing the Declaration of Independence.

    Like


  405. on August 16, 2009 at 3:33 pm Anonymous for now

    and that would be because men, not being women, have concepts like Justice in their brains that prevents them from seeing historical tit-for-tat as a form of fairness. what were the poor baby women on the losing end of? living longer? being supported? being protected from violence? not having to do the very worst work if they were above menial class? not bearing the responsibilty of ANY important decision EVER?

    To say that one person has the ability to understand concepts like justice simply b/c of their gender is poposterous, and denotes confusion on the part of the person formulizing that opinion.

    Why do you act like you have no idea what has taken place in the past? Maybe you would be happy not be able to vote, own your own home, or be considered for a well-paying job, but I’m wouldn’t. Some women do not want to be supported, they want a fair opportunity to use their talents. Men are still paid higher wages. And what about the atrocity of accepting the abuse of ones with as a private matter? Not very just at all.

    Like


  406. BDSM
    is for people who cannot get reasonable sex in the real world and so they go to a make-believe world where everyone is role playing.
    Wouldn’t it being easier to just go to the gym?

    Like


  407. Fuck you, David.

    Fuck you, Tupac. Face it, children are incompatible with life. Your pretty lie has died.

    Is an apple inferior or superior to an orange?

    Both are inferior to grapes. Otherwise, due to it’s hard skin, the orange is inferior to the apple.

    [editor: is a david alexander inferior to a tokyojesusfist?]

    Like


  408. Mandy, mileage varies. Generally though, if someone is D/s this means in just about all aspects of life. One has the option of “safewording” if something is going to seriously mess them up, but the Master or Mistress’s word is law.

    If the Master tells the slave they will wear a certain thing, that’s what they wear. If Master wants his breakfast promptly at 0600, then he gets it. If he wants sex, he gets it. If he’s angry and tells you to stand in the corner with one leg up for how ever long, it is done.

    Like


  409. @Welmer:

    Maybe it is. But I’ve seen it. Alpha male fathers who don’t let their daughters date, don’t let them out of the house, don’t let them do anything. They’re afraid that other boys will do to their daughters what they did their whole life to other women. It’s not so much sexual jealousy.

    There’s a saying in spanish that goes,”Piensa el ladron que todos son de su condicion.”

    I think the translation might be,”ill doers are ill deemers.”

    Like


  410. Nova, hold tiight, I have a few thoughts to share about the whole “Kitchen Bitch” thing.

    But for now, I just wanted to register a few thoughts on my most recent shit test attempt…by Brown Sugah, just about a half hour ago.

    As I have often noted, Black Women often attend college and as a result, get higher paying jobs, than the average Black Man. This sets up a very demanding set of circumstances, since it really calls the Brotha in Question to be on his A-Game in psycho-dominance terms.

    Like many Black Women like Brown Sugah, she’s quite intelligent. I’ve mentioned before that her IQ has been charted at 140.

    And it’s very common for such Women, of any color, to shit test their Men using their intellects. Believe it or not, quite a few Black Men have been humbled by this display.
    But not The Obsidian.

    We started out talking about how and why Black Men don’t handle their business; I agreed and amplified, and then, ever so slowly, I turned the conversation around to Black Women, noting the fact that a major reason why there are so many piss-poor Black Men around is because there are so many piss-poor Black Women around-in other words, the Female in any environment sets the tone for the kinds of Males that will be available in said environment. If Women select for louts and thugs, that’s what they’ll get more of, because, as Churchill so wisely put it, the best way to ensure you’ll get more of something, is to support it. The cruel truth, the dirty little secret is, that the crop of Black Men we see today, and that are being created as we speak for tomorrow, were done on Black Womens’ watch, as they were the sole parental force. And for all the complaining about how bad Black Men are may be true, in simple, bottomline terms, it is completely beside the point. If you’re at the helm and the shit hits the fan, you take the hit. Period. Men have long known this, and many a Man has fallen on a sword as a result. Now it’s the Ladies’ turn. If Black Women are really serious about wanting a better crop of Black Men to choose from as mates, they can start first by taking a good hard look in the mirror, because nine times out of ten they are the ones who had a direct, and often overwhelming, hand in creating the Black Men we all see today.

    First, silence.

    Then, Brown Sugah’s retort at first, was that Women don’t wanna hear that. My response was that in stricly Natural terms, it is wholly irrelevant whether Women wanna hear it or not, it doesn’t change the facts on the ground. Since Black Women are animals like everything else on the planet, they either make adjustments as the environment changes, or they decide not to exist anymore. Period.

    More silence.

    Then I mentioned the crucial importance of Big Mama in helping young Women make god mate choices. Brown Sugah tried to shoot that down by saying that as we’re all born and die alone, we have to make good decisions on our own, etc, et al.

    My immediate response-and I did it that way on purpose, almost cutting her off-was that while she may be one of the rarified few who, in the blush of her youth, had the good sense to make the Jane Austin type choice for Mr. Darcy over the other Lothario dude completely on her own, the sad truth is that the rest of us lowly human beings need guidance from others, preferrably older and more mature, on these crucial matters-and when that doesn’t happen, and when we try to apply a “do it yourself” method, we get the stuff we see in the Black community today, of which, the biggest losers are invariably, Women.
    More silence.

    Her next attempt was to say that the reason why Black Women went to college was to find a suitable mate to take back home; my immediate retort was that such a strategy was ill-conceived from the get go, given the easily confirmed fact that few Black Men go on to college to begin with, and in any event having a lambskin on the wall is hardly an accurate barometer of a person’s character, as the divorce rates clearly show.

    Her response was that Black Women were only reacting out of what they’d been taught by their parents-my immediate response was to chin-check her w/wait, wasn’t it you who was just saying that grown adults have to make their own decisions? Then I added, “you’re slippin'”. Heh heh.

    More silence.

    Then I decided to go for the coup de grace:

    Babygirl, lemme ask you something that’s been dogging me for quite some time. It occurs to me that the problem a lot of Black Women face is simple supply and demand-the number of high powered Obamalike Black Men are in very short supply, and it makes perfect sense that not only would they maximize their options while in school, but broaden them (ie, White Women, etc) upon graduation. Since so many Black Women have so much formal education, why do you think more of them haven’t come up w/an appropriate adjustment in their mating strategy?

    Here’s the text message response and my followup:

    BROWN SUGAH: I dunno. Good question. I would say it goes back to what I said abt suitability and what mama and daddy would say.

    OBSIDIAN: hmm. I can go along w/that up to a point, but one would think that sistas would start to see the matrix once they’re actually in the mix themselves & see what’s going on firsthand. On the streets, you learn to keep your senses sharp & always be on the lookout for changes in the game, so you can adjust accordingly & don’t get caught assed-out.

    BS: like I said, I dunno. And honestly, I don’t care.

    TRANSLATION: “You’ve worn me out; I give up; you win”.

    Conclusion: notice how I did this here-we started out conversing on a subject of her choosing. I meet her challenge, defeat her on that note, and then flip the script on her. She begins to respond to the terms of the shit test (debate) I’ve now set. At every retort she offers, I immediately jump back in w/both a response to her comments, but then a counter of my own, keeping her off balance. Finally, notice how I keep dominance of the conversation by asking her questions-and notice that in my so doing, I plunge a big ole Peter Cushing/Christopher Lee/Hammer Vampire Films stake in the heart of her notions.

    Result?-not only did she “give up” but she’s on the way to pick me up right now.

    To date, I’ve never attended college as a student, and am a graduate of Philly public schools (Germantown HS, circa 87); yet I have never, ever, let a Woman, Black or White, think that just because she done went to college, that she attempt to shit test me with it.

    Stand your ground, agree and amplify, answer and counter, flip the script, and then hit her w/the statement/statement/question method, in that order, and depending on the amount of snark she steps to you with, in what I call “rapid fire” fashion.

    Trust me, she will give up. In more ways than one.
    😉

    The Obsidian

    Like


  411. Nicole it was a submissive’s meeting only submissive women could attend. I had met a woman in my town who knew my interest and she invited me, I was vouched for and not seen as a poser. Keep trying. Why are you doubting my experience by the way? Why are you projecting your experience in these groups on me? Why do you not believe I was seen as a threat? Plus regardless of whether monogamy is part of the lifestyle or not women by nature are not all about sharsies with random women. We do want to be that special little snowflake – tru stry.

    Like


  412. @GhostofNicole:

    What happens if these sorts of things go wrong? Is it possible for psychological roleplay to occur so badly that a sort of problem occurs that limits either person to effectively say no or accept no as an answer?

    Like


  413. Fuck you, Tupac.

    No…fuck YOU.

    Face it, children are incompatible with life.

    Behold genius.

    Otherwise, due to it’s hard skin, the orange is inferior to the apple.

    Due to its greater juiciness, the orange is clearly superior to the apple.

    We can play this game forever. Hope you get the point.

    Like


  414. on August 16, 2009 at 3:42 pm Anonymous for now

    Rum:

    Anon 4 Now

    Men all over the world form militia groups to do the local fighting.
    Who, exactly, prevents local women from doing the same thing?
    And if women let someone prevent them, they are avoiding doing the job by other means.

    Men all over the world form militia groups to do the local fighting.
    Who, exactly, prevents local women from doing the same thing?

    Who’s to say we aren’t?

    And if women let someone prevent them, they are avoiding doing the job by other means.

    As far as the US military is concerned, it’s a tedious process fighting with the federal government, but I assure, we’re working on.

    Like


  415. @nicole – “If he’s angry and tells you to stand in the corner with one leg up for how ever long, it is done”

    Now that sounds damn silly doesn’t it? Didn’t it make you feel silly typing it? Cuz really now – that’s not about leadership that’s about stupidity. Just sayin…

    Like


  416. cuntrag:
    “Lurker’s irrational behavior isn’t all that unusual for him. It’s just the way he acts.”
    —said the girl who:

    1) thinks people who have things stolen from them should “just get over it” and are whiners

    2) thinks anyone who didn’t vote for her hero, Nobama, is a racist;

    3) shits on her grandfather in public.

    4) loves castro, loves communism

    Yep, a *real* rational one there. She and tjf can go off in their own little fantasy world where stating the opposite of proven fact with no backup of their statements is completely logical.

    Like


  417. Rum, is it so hard for you to imagine that there are men in the world with women who want to serve them?

    …not just service them, but serve them.

    …women who will dress themselves up like horses, and burn calories in a circle on a lead, just to please Master?

    To help me maintain my agility and strength, my ex used to have me wear 6 cm. link chains at my wrists and ankles on school days.

    This “roleplay” did my body good. It at least kept things from getting worse.

    Like


  418. why is not surprising that the illogical, factless, baseless, groundless arguments are made here by women and tjf, a desperate white knight-wannabe?

    “Who’s to say we aren’t?”
    —history. logic. data.

    “As far as the US military is concerned, it’s a tedious process fighting with the federal government, but I assure, we’re working on.”
    —grrl power! lol

    Like


  419. Obsidian, with all due respect, why the hell would you want to be having sociological discussions with your woman? Do you have something to prove?

    Like


  420. Mandy!😄

    @Welmer:

    Maybe it is. But I’ve seen it. Alpha male fathers who don’t let their daughters date, don’t let them out of the house, don’t let them do anything. They’re afraid that other boys will do to their daughters what they did their whole life to other women. It’s not so much sexual jealousy.

    The biggest player I know told me he doesn’t ever want a daughter because he’s afraid he’d end up sleeping with her friends.

    I thought that was kind of ridiculous at the time (we were in our early 20s then), but now I think he might have been right.

    Like


  421. Warpig, the idea of you being chained in a sexual way makes me hurl.

    smell ya later, fat ass!

    Like


  422. Aoefe, I have to ask what year this was. It’s hard for me to think that there is a BDSM group that would give anyone “the shoulder” for being cute. Come on. Most of the female subs were likely bisexual or close, so a pretty young woman wouldn’t set off “competitor” alarms.

    I can’t say for certain, but I seriously suspect that you’re misreading them. Something other than competitiveness got you a cold reception. It could have been that they sensed you were a poser.

    I’ve just shared a few words with you online, and your calling a rather mild punishment “silly” tells me you’re not D/s material. Being sub isn’t about the play. It’s about accountability, and taking joy in pleasing your Master…and if you displease your Master and he tells you to rub grape jelly on your tits and sing the Marine anthem, you do it because, silly as it is, you deserve it.

    Like


  423. Welmer, jenna Jameson said on Howard Stern once that her father used to sleep with her friends in high school.

    ‘Course she’s a porn star on Howard stern, so its probably malarky, but considering how fucked up you have to be to end up a stripper/hooker like she is, her daddy had to have been like that.

    If true, though….good for him.

    Like


  424. on August 16, 2009 at 3:57 pm Anonymous for now

    I don’t understand the idea of attending these types of meetings *referencing convo between aoefe & Nicole*. I can understand the dynamics in a personal relationship, but not in a “meeting” with complete strangers. I’m not disagreeing with you, I just don’t understand how one becomes aroused by it.

    Like


  425. @nicole – if you are trying to further the notion that bdsm is anything beyond weird by talking the way you do then you’re doing a shitty job. You and I both know there are practitioners who don’t do any of this crazy fetish crap why focus on that? I’m not knocking fetishes either but convincing a tough audience that what you’re talking about is valid by using horse play as an example? Come on please.

    @Dana – I have looked at taken in hand before and it’s very interesting. Again I think it’s women who prompt these discussion in their homes and I think the reason fits with what’s talked about here. Women want/need their men to man up. LTR game IS required and if disciplinary punishment (i.e. non sexual spanking) is part of it who’s to argue. The danger of course is in some beotch running to the police and claiming abuse at the first sign of marital discord…that’s shitty and risky for men. What contract between husband and wife regarding discipline methods is going to hold up in court. “but judge she agreed to the hair brush I have the witness signed agreement right here.” Ya right…not gonna happen.

    Like


  426. Anonymous, people go to the regular meetings as a support and education group, not to get aroused.

    Like


  427. Aoefe, what is D/s without the Dominance and submission?

    Answer: Nothing.

    If you are not willing to submit, then how do you figure you’re submissive?

    Submitting is submitting, not wearing a pair of cuffs and prancing around like you don’t have anything important to do.

    Like


  428. lurker

    Welmer, jenna Jameson said on Howard Stern once that her father used to sleep with her friends in high school.

    I believe it. This probably happens a lot more than people imagine. Age of consent is 16 in most states, and girls from 16-20 can probably pull more attention from the opposite sex than any other demographic.

    Like


  429. @nicole – The year was hmmm it was sooo long ago… 2008. And heck I’m not going to convince you I’m not a poser submissive and that I got the cold shoulder so let’s drop it. I’m not a kinky, scene girl no – but the meeting wasn’t a play party or a meet and greet it was an informational meeting with a teacher so why would a woman who claims to be submissive (which I am) be posing by attending a meeting? Just sayin…

    Like


  430. The notion that when men speak up about current inequalities in law and so forth they are behaving as misogynists is absurd. That is merely a transparent tactic to silence us. We will not be silenced.

    The idea that men should gladly suffer inequity today because of the past reeks of misandrist retribution.

    But I would not expect anything else from a feminist, really.

    Like


  431. Nicole:

    I’m going with aoefe on this one. You’re not doing your opinions or beliefs any favors by stating them over and over. In fact, this is just kind of weird.

    >.>’

    I’m aware that there are others that think how you do, but not everyone takes it that far. Just saying. It doesn’t make them “fake” or “sellouts” it just makes them less…extreme.

    @lurker:

    Why do you waste your time on here if you’re going to shout at people? You’re capable of posting very, very intelligent things, and then you go wild with these crazy ad hominem attacks, generalizations, and blatant misreadings of what people write. I’m not saying that I’m exempt from doing these things from time to time, but I find it odd that you practically stop posting when I cut back on posting, and then when I (or currently, Ghost of Nicole) post something, you magically appear.

    Like


  432. aoefe,

    just find a man you can trust and encourage him to act as dominant as his nature tells him to, encourage his sense of ownership and you will have an awesome relationship without any playacting thats based on his masculinity not some defective female-centered fetishism and clubby playacting bs.

    joining clubs to have sex with other losers is gay in the finest 4th grade sense of the word

    Like


  433. cuntrag, being cuntrag:

    “Why do you waste your time on here if you’re going to shout at people?”
    —-why do you waste your time here posting your nonsensica and illogical crap?

    “You’re capable of posting very, very intelligent things,”
    —which you are not.

    “and then you go wild with these crazy ad hominem attacks, generalizations, and blatant misreadings of what people write.”
    —cuntrag, eveything I have written about you is true.

    “I’m not saying that I’m exempt from doing these things from time to time,”
    —try all the time, tubby.

    “but I find it odd that you practically stop posting when I cut back on posting, and then when I (or currently, Ghost of Nicole) post something, you magically appear.”
    —lol. following me I see? Illogical bitches need to be smack down. Like you, dunderhead.

    Like


  434. Aoefe, I’m sure it was your attitude that gave you away. You don’t seem to be open to learning, and you don’t seem submissive either. You just kinda latched onto that word because it’s kinky, but you don’t really have it in you.

    I was submissive relative to my ex, but to everyone else I’m Domme…and you wouldn’t have made the cut.

    You can call yourself whatever you want, but you wouldn’t be able to call yourself my slave.

    Your “competitors” will stand in the corner for their time, and then crawl on their knees back to their Master or Mistress chastened more from awareness that they displeased, than from the punishment itself.

    This isn’t a putdown. I’m just telling you that you’re a vanilla girl who sometimes likes a little roughness…not a submissive.

    Like


  435. I hate stupid. Warpig, Cuntrag, and tjf are completely stupid. They need to be spanked and sent home like the miserable failures they are.

    Like


  436. Nicole, nicole, nicole. Submission means submit of course it does. I’m saying that in those communities quite often its the un…excuse the language… the un-fuckable that attend. Anyone with a modicum of fuckableness is seen as a threat. In those communities you will find women to submit to almost any man who calls themselves a Dom. What kind of submission is that really and how special is it when any guy can say “drop it like it’s hot” and she’ll do it for anyone. Some women really get off on doing bizzare, far out their things for their men and are willing almost to death to be obedient. I think that’s very cool for the very few and far between minority who have built up an incredible trust and have like-minded kinks. Oh I should mention I don’t believe safe words should ever be used either – that’s play and heck to me D/s should be anything but. Safe, sane, consensual is all play terminology and crap to me. Let’s talk real life shall we?

    I am a pleaser by nature, submissive to my core but I’m not a stupid, door mat. What have I said that makes you believe I’m being dishonest? I think in fact I’m likely even more submissive than you are, but I don’t think you’ll accept it – it will threaten your world view.

    If I was fortunate to have found an interesting, attractive, bright man who intrigued me and who inspired trust in me and was from that community who knows what I might or might not do. It didn’t happen. Truthfully the men who interest me are not in those fringe groups because they can get what they want without being part of that scene. Make sense? The scene is NOT my scene which oes not make me less submissive. Jeesh.

    Like


  437. @Mandy – ya, what Welmer said.

    Like


  438. Mandy, perhaps I seem to be repeating myself because, like many women trying to wiggle out of the truth, she figures if she reveals more details of the screwed up situation, the conclusions of *experienced* people are going to change.

    I’ve been at this longer that she’s probably been alive.

    Like


  439. aoefe

    Sounds like you’re not over your ex regardless of your proclamations to the contrary. I’m not criticizing you. We’re not machines…no matter how hard we try? Machines are worshipped in this society and if we can’t turn our feelings for someone off like a light switch, then something must be wrong with us. Especially when there’s so much evidence that they are no longer worth our time and energy. I predict you’ll be telling us about him for a long time to come because you were so in love with him and he dumped you. I read your blog and yes, he’s a loser with a capital L. What makes him a loser is that he has no idea what he wants in his relationships with women (or if he even wants a relationship with a woman or not). The only thing he knows is his sex drive which he’s a slave to. Biology runs his life. It is really stupid, but that’s the truth. He is telling men how to be even bigger slaves to their sex drives.

    Like


  440. Aoefe, entertain whatever delusions you like. You washed out because you think it’s about fucking.

    It’s not about fucking.

    Your “fuckability” is irrelevant in BDSM.

    What is relevant is your level of submission…which you don’t have.

    Like


  441. Nicole you are a switch. I can’t swith doesn’t that make me more submissive? I am so sorry to hear I didn’t make the cut as your submissive. /sarcasm I haven’t been here trying to prove my submissiveness to anyone, least of all you, I know what I am. For a woman who claims to be so enlightened you are quite blind.

    Like


  442. ew i can’t believe this obnoxious schvoog that looks like a fuckin’ Ent from the lord of the rings is yelling at you for not matching some corny definition of submissive

    yech my eyes are vomiting

    Like


  443. @xsplat:

    Okies. Maybe those people do have bigger problems than I initially thought. >.>’

    You, on the other hand, seem pretty sane to me.

    @GhostofNicole:

    People have different opinions and preferences. Maybe your idea of D/S isn’t to her liking. No biggie. You enjoy what you like, she’ll enjoy what she likes.

    @lurker:

    I find something really, really wrong with the fact that you want to spank me.

    Like


  444. What she’s calling BDSM would be like me calling digging in my ear fucking.

    Like


  445. @dana:

    “fuckin’ Ent from the lord of the rings”

    The number of Lord of the Rings references you make is inversely proportional to the number of friends you have.😛

    I kid.

    (you said what we were all thinking, albeit meaner)

    Like


  446. …and futhermore, I am not a switch. I am Dominant…just less Dominant than my ex.

    Like


  447. Nicole is the female David Alexander

    both are black and anti-white. both have the worst possible features of their genders (betaness/fatness+ugliness)

    Like


  448. I really don’t see the point to the back and forth over what is and aint D/s, Black Women, or Feminism. People are gonna believe what they want regardless of what the facts are, and as we all know, perception is reality. So, let the believers believe.

    O

    Like


  449. …and Dana, you have some nerve for an invisible woman, to diss my looks.

    What’s that? Oh my goodness! No wait…no, no…didn’t lose any money from my bank account because you think I’m ugly.

    Like


  450. Nicole you’re delusional if you don’t think bdsm is about sex even if penetration doesn’t occur it’s erotic practice. Jeesh woman. BDSM = Bondage & Discipline, Domination & Submission and Sadism & Masochism . What the heck is asexual about that list? It’s a lot of mental but the ultimate goal is to heighten sexual pleasure. My point wasn’t about sex it was about who belongs to the kink, life style community. They are unfuckables for the most part. Face it. BDSM does happen outside of fringe groups you know. I’m a submissive with masochistic tendancies doesn’t mean I have to belong to a group dearie.

    I haven’t submitted to you therefore you feel I’m a poser is that it? Try harder.

    @dana – I like your recommendations regarding partner pickage – totally agree.

    Like


  451. “I find something really, really wrong with the fact that you want to spank me.”
    —cuntrag, you’re right, most guys pay you for that privilege.

    warpig:

    “What she’s calling BDSM would be like me calling digging in my ear fucking.”
    —thank you for ruining everyone’s appetite, you ugly fat disgusting human poostain.

    Like


  452. @ mandy

    references to the lord of the rings are one sign of lack of personal friends.

    Like


  453. Obsidian, tru dat.

    It’s just horrifying to see the mental contortions some people will make. I’ll have to learn to be less moved by such things.

    Like


  454. @sometimes y – “I predict you’ll be telling us about him for a long time to come because you were so in love with him and he dumped you. I read your blog and yes, he’s a loser with a capital L. ”

    I think now he represents a case study for me. If it weren’t for this ex-alpha I wouldn’t be here so working out this relationship on paper and here helps me understand. I don’t think I was in love with him at any time – did I think it would develop to that stage – oh yes! I think writing about it has been cathartic and ya I don’t think the story is really over. Honestly I think down the road I’ll hear from him again. I’m not waiting for him in any way, and have no hope that he’ll change the ship he’s steering in any healthy way. He’s damaged goods but interesting as a game study.

    Like


  455. @ lurker

    are you Cuban-American?
    your hatred of Mandy would make sense only if you had personally suffered with the revolution

    Like


  456. Aoefe, go stand in the corner with Lurker and you can both enjoy the imaginary Nicole you’re apparently arguing with. Have fun!🙂

    Like


  457. gig:
    “your hatred of Mandy would make sense only if you had personally suffered with the revolution”
    —or it makes sense if:

    1) I have any ounce of fairness/decency in my body; or

    2) you realize her casual dismissal of her grandfather’s pain is retarded.

    Like


  458. it is hard for people to inherit their ancestors pains unless they suffer financially with them

    it shouldn´t be this way, but it is.

    Like


  459. Obsidian I like you and how you write. But sometimes you amuse me. I feel like you’re saying let people believe what they want and stop the argument. But dude! You are constantly writing arguments for your point of view or refuting someone else’s. If this particular argument bores you, just skip past it. I have to do that many days myself. No disrespect intended. 🙂

    Like


  460. Oh nicole I didn’t go stand in the corner nor did lurker. Your suggestion actually takes away from any sense of natural dominance you might have. Just sayin…

    As to your suggestion I’m arguing with a mythical nicole what a poor way of getting out of an argument. Fail.

    Like


  461. gig, injustice pisses off anyone. I can be pissed about injustice anywhere, and especially pissed at injustice casually dismissed by self-absorbed cunts like Mandy.

    Like


  462. @lurker:
    “1) I have any ounce of fairness/decency in my body; or”

    A man who likes to sleep with hookers considers himself “decent.”

    Irony.

    “2) you realize her casual dismissal of her grandfather’s pain is retarded.”

    Unless you know my grandfather and his casual dismissal of his own family, then you wouldn’t understand.

    I feel pain for Cubans who get jailed for going against castro, or who lose things from castro, not for Cubans who support Castro then back away when they realize that they’re going to lose all their things and took part in screwing up their country. At least they see that they did wrong, but not until after they did it.

    Kind of like you with that hooker. How’s the STD’s treating you?

    Like


  463. I see

    I once read Humberto Fontova writings about the first days of the revolution and the paredón. It makes the blood boil

    Like


  464. aoefe, warpig’s a wanna be.

    Like


  465. the communist is a wild animal, a feral beast with whom reasoning is not possible, the only way to deal with such people, and their enablers, isthrough gallows or firing squads

    this is why I avoid reading about it. I bought a gigantic book about Warsaw´s uprising in 1944 and I couldnt´finish it. it is impossible to imagine a story where the good guys get more screwed than taht, and where the bad guys end up so well

    reading about it makes you bitter. this is why I avoid it

    Like


  466. William F. Buckley said it best, on why he refused to debate communists: “You can’t debate someone who believes the moon is made of green cheese.”

    Like


  467. Aoefe, strangely, it does look like you’ve both painted yourselves into a nice little corner where submission means doing only what you want to do, and anybody who thinks otherwise (including Merriam-Webster) is a “wannabe” or “delusional”.

    If this is what you want to believe, then you’re welcome to your beliefs. However, those of us who speak the English language at a greater than first grade level get to live in a bigger world.

    Hey, there are people who believe that getting a photograph taken of them will steal their soul. I don’t argue with those people. Guess why?

    Now you know why I’m done playing with you.

    Like


  468. @gig:

    I know Warsaw’s Uprising is really difficult to swallow, especially since the good guy’s don’t win. I remember reading Mordechai Anielewicz’s last letter and crying.

    I chose to write a historical paper on it, analyzing the Nazi count of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, and the Jewish account of it. Some historians agree that it was successful in destroying German morale. It also inspired other uprisings (such as one in Poland not much later; interestingly enough, one of the survivors of the ghetto uprising helped fight in that one). Life isn’t going to always have a Hollywood ending, but as long as there are people fighting for it, and believing in it, well, that’s what matters. Right?

    Like


  469. warpig, you sill fat bitch: considering you make outlandish claims at how “society” tells black women to become fat and out of shape and loud and stupid, and offer no proof…..

    you clearly know nothing of arguing above assertion.

    Go join tjf and mandy is your fantasy world, tubby.

    Like


  470. @ghostofNicole:

    “Hey, there are people who believe that getting a photograph taken of them will steal their soul. I don’t argue with those people. Guess why?”

    You can’t successfully convince people of your beliefs, so you lower their intelligence levels to those who believe their soul will be taken if they are photographed.

    Nice.

    That’s the same as lurker saying that he can’t argue with me because I’m a communist. Yeah, in what universe?

    Looks like you two have something in common!

    Like


  471. aoefe,

    there is a difference between being “A Sub” and being sort of naturally submissive, obedient and responsive to male dominance–that’s where the confusions coming in, you are using a fetishes’ terms of art to describe yourself. people who engage in ritualized fetishistic behavior are fucked up, to put it mildly. just removing fetishes from the DSM doesn’t make em sane.

    the thing that struck me about taken in hand was that it already described what we were doing and didn’t involve anything corny or on purpose (for example, the whole spanking on purpose thing, which i think is gay, is optional to the whole idea). it also wasn’t about “submission”, but obedience which is different. my hub doesn’t expect me to act like some mealy mouthed slave–we are a team, a team in which he’s the captain and i’m an important player.

    Like


  472. cunty:
    “Life isn’t going to always have a Hollywood ending, but as long as there are people fighting for it, and believing in it, well, that’s what matters. Right?”
    —and so long as they just get over being obliterated, its ok, right, bitch?

    Like


  473. Yes, mandy, you just sympathize with castro and think anyone who voted against Nobama is a racist.

    But you’re not a commie. Oh noes.

    Like


  474. @lurker:

    Well if an individual is obliterated they’re not alive anymore, so then they’d be wherever God decides to put them.

    On earth humans might seek justice for the crime of taking a life, and God willing, find it.

    Like


  475. nicole warbled – “it does look like you’ve both painted yourselves into a nice little corner where submission means doing only what you want to do, and anybody who thinks otherwise (including Merriam-Webster) is a “wannabe” or “delusional”.”

    Find me anything close to me saying I believe that. Anything. You’ve misread me and I think its because I’ve hit a very soft spot with you. I’ve declared the group I attended full of unfuckables who were threatened by my fuckability and you’ve turned that into me being non-submissive. You’ve then twisted it into thinking that I believe submission means doing only what I want to do. Crap nicole, crap.

    Like


  476. Mandy

    the Jews have made it look that only one uprising happened in warsaw. There was the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 1943 and the general uprising of 1944.

    most Jews see the uprising of 1944 the same way I see the battle of Stalingrad. Too few people died

    Like


  477. Oh no, Aoefe, warpig “is done” with us! That’s another black grrrl power speech—101 ways to get out of an argument you got your ass handed to you in and can’t admit it.

    She should go back to “cooking light” or whatever other nonsense she’s doing on her website. Have you seen that joke?

    Like


  478. gee, thanks cunty, for your remarkable insight into morality. /sarcasm

    Like


  479. I think it’s just the difference between a sub (nicole’s figment) and a woman who likes a dominant man but who is a not a sub (aoefe).

    Like


  480. @dana – the dynamic you’ve describe between your husband and yourself is very attractive to me. Does he have any like minded friends? 😉

    I know that sub has a kink meaning but it doesn’t take away that at the root of it there is a submissive man or woman. She declared I was not submissive. I declared I’m submissive but not of the lifestyle, kink bent – I’ve been clear on that. However I think what I do to submit in many ways will be defined by my future mate – if he’s into things that will push my limits I will have to submit – bottom line. What I never want to do is top from the bottom. I’m not going to give him a 10 page list of things I want done to me or that I won’t have done to me – how submissive is that? Lifestyle communities have those checklists…just sayin.

    Like


  481. Mandy, think on this…

    Dana, as moralist as she may be, gets the difference between D/s and what ought to be normal marital authority structure.

    If, with the giant stick up her ass, Dana manages to get it, then being simply misguided or unaware, cannot possibly be the reason for Aoefe’s or Lurker’s failure to understand.

    In low IQ land:

    fucking = sexuality in general

    the media misinforms people about what they should and shouldn’t be eating based on outdated and overgeneralized information = White people are making us fat

    Get where I’m going with this? It is impossible to have a conversation with people who don’t even speak the same language. I’d get farther trying to explain D/s to my cats.

    Like


  482. Low IQ land that’s ALL you got!

    I was talking about the group I attended being full of unfuckables sweetie. I know far more than you give me credit for on D/s and have an interest in bdsm. My point is that I won’t find what I’m looking for in fringe groups full of unfuckables. That makes you uncomfortable and rather than address my point you attack my intelligence.

    Like


  483. Aoefe, if it’s important to you that everyone you socialize with be “fuckable” then more power to you.

    Just, when you get to an age where you’re no longer optimally fuckable, I hope you meet a younger version of yourself, so you can tell her how mature and intelligent she sounds to you.

    Like


  484. @nicole – You really are missing the point of what I was saying. I was rejected by THEM not the other way round – jeesh woman. As to everyone I socialize with needing to be fuckable – that’s ridiculous you are really digging deep here chick. No nicole what I’m saying is the person I’m going to fuck better be fuckable – there is a difference.

    Like


  485. Nicole I feel I’ve filled up the board a fair bit today with my questions and comments and arguments I’m going to take a leave. I’ve enjoyed the back and forth for what its worth. 😉

    Like


  486. @PA

    The same thing happened to me early in my marriage. My response: “How hot was she?”

    Like


  487. aoefe–

    I suppose you already know what I’m about to say but I feel some need to remind you of it anyway.

    Don’t take much of what Nicole says too seriously.

    She has her insights but they are also seriously warped by, well you know by what or actually by several things. I’m trying not to be needlessly mean here.

    As well, being one of a tiny minority of black females in Israel has it’s strangeness.

    I’ve made some comments just now at your’s on 13yrs older and alpha guy both.

    Like


  488. Aoefe, I thought this was your point: “My point is that I won’t find what I’m looking for in fringe groups full of unfuckables.”

    Now you’re backpedalling.

    See why I find you frustrating to deal with?

    Like


  489. Doug, be as mean as you like. May as well jump on the bandwagon while it’s rolling.

    Like


  490. Nicole

    I’m getting sick and tired of your pontificating on D/s or anything else from your uglier than sin and fatter than the michelin man vantage point.

    Shut the fuck up you old sea cow.

    aoefe is worth an infinite number of you.

    Like


  491. No forget that.

    That’s a frightening thought.

    An infinite number of Nicoles!

    Most everything you say is warped by your extreme unattractiveness.

    I’d leave you alone, and do, except when you presume to pontificate and even drive someone like aoefe away for awhile.

    Shut the fuck up sea cow.

    Like


  492. aoefe-

    Attractive people who are into D/s don’t generally go to meets that promote themselves as D/s for the sorts of reasons you encountered.

    They go to more privately arranged things if they go to group things at all. Privately arranged and screened.

    Like


  493. Nicole I did not back pedal. What am I looking for? A mate. I’m not going to find my mate in a group of people who are in the group because they couldn’t get fucked otherwise. That’s what I said plain and simple – what you read into that is your business but I think you have a chip on your shoulder and filter what people say through it.

    Doug thanks, but I’m not saying I’m better than nicole – I don’t know her and she could be worth 10 of me for all I know. My point was the group I met were not. She has taken this far too personally and for that I feel bad.

    Oh and I haven’t read your comments yet, but I will! 🙂

    So much for getting off huh…k this time I REALLY mean it.

    Like


  494. Tupac asks a very good question:

    “Obsidian, with all due respect, why the hell would you want to be having sociological discussions with your woman? Do you have something to prove?”

    Obsidian responds: Actually Tupac, yes and no.

    Yes, in “shit test” terms, I do have something to prove, per this and DFH’s previous comments and insights in this regard.

    No, wrt the actual topic-the point is, Tupac, was I was illustrating a form of shit-testing that quite a few Black Women of Brown Sugah’s caliber, ie, high IQ, highly formally educated, will often attempt on their Men, all the moreso if said Men aren’t similarly educationally disposed. This is a facet of shit testing that occurs quite a bit among such Women, and quite a few Black Men fail it, for the aforementioned reasons.

    Hope this clarifies things.

    O

    Like


  495. Nicole

    Now you’re backpedalling.

    See why I find you frustrating to deal with?

    Go stuff yourself full of more white man food you ugly retard.

    I read what aoefe said uptread about ugly old women looking at here with considerable hostility which she took as feeling she was a real threat, and thought she was almost certainly absolutely right.

    I’m into D/s Nicole.

    Like


  496. I am starting to see a bit through Welmer’s eyes.

    Damn.

    Like


  497. Oh, wow… what happened here?

    Like


  498. Nicole

    What she’s calling BDSM would be like me calling digging in my ear fucking.

    The mere thought of you (I’ve seen pictures) in anything BDSM makes me start to want to hurl — so I immediately turn my mind elsewhere.

    Like


  499. It can all be boiled down to this – males are generally ‘Apollonian’ in orientation, whilst females are generally ‘Dionysian’ in orientation. This balance has become all screwed up in the White West in recent decades since the ascent of Judeofeminism and thus White-Western gender relations are currently rather chaotic as a result.

    Right now the Dionysian nature of many White-Western females is increasingly unchecked, degenerate, destructive, and sickening – just go to any urban bar or club on the weekend and you can see that. At the same time, many White-Western men have been becoming less Apollonian (thus more Dionysian/feminized) in the last few decades as they overengage in various Dionysian behaviors which are undermining White-Western culture – too many White-Western men are losing or forfeiting their natural Apollonian side and Western society is suffering because they can no longer keep the increasingly wild/Dionysian behavior of their females in check.

    If you have no clue what I am taking about, read the following link for a decent overview of the ancient Apollonian vs. Dionysian issue — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian

    Like


  500. Michelin pig above was referring to aoefe.

    Who’s one of the most adorable girls on here.

    Like


  501. Nicole

    Dana, as moralist as she may be, gets the difference between D/s and what ought to be normal marital authority structure.

    If, with the giant stick up her ass, Dana manages to get it, then being simply misguided or unaware, cannot possibly be the reason for Aoefe’s or Lurker’s failure to understand.

    Ugly obnoxious sea cow.

    Shut the fuck up.

    Everything you say is warped by you’re trying to rationalize some reason why you have any sexual value in the world whatsoever, whereas in fact you have zero.

    Like


  502. It can all be boiled down to this – males are generally ‘Apollonian’ in orientation, whilst females are generally ‘Dionysian’ in orientation. This balance has become all screwed up in the White West in recent decades since the ascent of Judeofeminism and thus White-Western gender relations are currently rather chaotic as a result.

    Amen. And good to see you here.

    Like


  503. warpig, don’t you know when you’ve been owned?

    Like


  504. Nicole

    the media misinforms people about what they should and shouldn’t be eating based on outdated and overgeneralized information = White people are making us fat

    Retard.

    Like


  505. I would call warpig “manatee” but those are sweet, peaceful creatures. Plus she would warp that into her looking like a mermaid.

    Like


  506. “the media misinforms people about what they should and shouldn’t be eating based on outdated and overgeneralized information = White people are making us fat”
    –those evil white people strike again!

    Like


  507. It can all be boiled down to this – males are generally ‘Apollonian’ in orientation, whilst females are generally ‘Dionysian’ in orientation. This balance has become all screwed up in the White West in recent decades since the ascent of Judeofeminism and thus White-Western gender relations are currently rather chaotic as a result.

    Amen. And good to see you here.

    (from me this time … that will teach me to mess about with wordpress settings)

    Like


  508. Nicole

    Aoefe, entertain whatever delusions you like. You washed out because you think it’s about fucking.

    It’s not about fucking.

    Your “fuckability” is irrelevant in BDSM.

    What is relevant is your level of submission…which you don’t have.

    In your fat and ugly as sin world of BDSM I guess it would have to be, wouldn’t it, or no one would EVER let you in. (I still doubt if many do, even in the ugly person open meeting type world you’re talking about.)

    In the world of attractive people D/s or BDSM, you ain’t remotely getting in. But aoefe will, no problem.

    Sea cow.

    Like


  509. When we were in love I pretended you didn’t exist
    That way I loved you more
    You suggested we get married and move into a house
    I suggested that we jump overboard
    And live underwater in the lost city of Atlantis
    Where mermaids sing
    And tuxedoed dolphins bring you breakfast

    One year later I was transfered to the moon
    Worse pay, better hours
    I was transfered to the moon
    Worse pay, better fellow workers

    I built our love out of blood
    I went to the dentist and told him “take out my heart”
    I feel better than James Brown
    I feel better now
    I feel better than James Brown

    I was attending Mardi Gras with Fidel Castro
    Bucksome cross dressers threw fake gold coins at our feet
    As we discussed the fate of the revolution
    Suddenly, CIA men dressed in bikinis
    Tried to stab us with fountain pens
    Fidel blew mustard gas from his cigar
    And immobalized the lot of them
    19 tequilas later we had a deal
    Havana goes back to the mob
    And Fidel and I open a chain of Kentucky Fried Chicken shops

    Ain’t life sweet? I feel good
    I feel better than James Brown
    I feel better now
    I feel better than James Brown
    I feel better now, how do you feel?

    I feel better than James Brown
    I feel better now
    I feel better than James Brown
    I feel better now
    I feel better than James Brown
    I feel better now, how do you feel?

    Like


  510. @doug- don’t you think you’re being a little harsh?

    Like


  511. Dreamer–

    No.

    Read the obnoxious cr*p she’s been pontificating to aoefe.

    Who’s a genuine sweetheart and a delight around here.

    I’d hate it if aoefe stopped coming here.

    I couldn’t care less if Nicole stopped commenting. Actually, I’d consider it a minor plus if she didn’t.

    Like


  512. editor: is a david alexander inferior to a tokyojesusfist

    David Alexander is black while TJF is white, so thus, David Alexander is inferior.

    No…fuck YOU.

    No, you’re part of the problem. I don’t stand for men who cheat during their marriage regardless of some type of natural urge to spread seed. Again, either stay within the confines of marriage, or do not enter a marriage. If it means that birth rates tank, then I’m willing to accept that as the cost of living in a modern world.

    Due to its greater juiciness, the orange is clearly superior to the apple.

    But the orange requires a tool to get to it’s juiciness while the apple can be enjoyed in a raw state of nature.

    Women want/need their men to man up.

    Why? Because they’re too stupid to take care of themselves? Because they’re incapable of being adults? That kind of stuff sickens me.

    a team in which he’s the captain and i’m an important player

    So you like being the nigger?

    Like


  513. DA

    you have made me sick since half sigma years ago.

    i can’t believe no ones killed you yet

    and guess what, no one thinks niggers are important players–everyone just wishes they would leave or die.

    Like


  514. Doug, are you done making a tool of yourself yet?

    Again, when I first entered the scene, I was 19 years old, and weighed 120 lbs.

    I was a martial artist and a runner…very fit.

    When I walked into my first meeting, I got some strange looks for being an unusual color, and being new.

    By the end of the meeting, it was as if I’d known these people all my life.

    That was 20 years ago.

    Since then, my “fuckability” in that scene was pretty much irrelevant. It stayed irrelevant through the hypothyroid and the fat, and is still irrelevant during the weight loss, and will probably stay irrelevant thereafter.

    See, for those of us who are into D/s and not Dumb/ass, it’s the *relationship* between Dom and sub that is important. People do their own selection aside of that. Everybody has their preferences…but nobody, and I mean NOBODY will look down on someone else because of a physical defect, or because they don’t match someone else’s taste, and say so. It would be rude and stupid…missing the point of being at a munch, meeting, or party.

    Someone who did it would basically out themselves as a fool nobody would want to be “owned” by because he’s a dumbass poser who uses the cover of D/s to abuse women he considers disposable, or lure stupid young girls who would call the police if someone really spanked them.

    Call this “pontificating” if you like, but BDSM is not the mainstream, and no amount of calling me a seacow is going to make it so.

    Many people into BDSM don’t even do penis/vagina penetrative sex…at least not with their subs. I certainly don’t. Many male Doms don’t either, and when they do, it’s usually more punctuation and release, not the be all and end all of the activity.

    You don’t get to change what the scene is to suit your momentary desire to kiss up to a girl who wouldn’t know submissive if it kneeled and licked her toes.

    …but feel free to continue the namecalling. It really makes you look Dominant and in control to sell out the community for a virtual herd brownie point.

    Like


  515. on August 16, 2009 at 6:53 pm The Fifth Horesman

    On a separate topic :

    Given what we know about the massive unfairness of divorce laws, single guys might have it even worse :

    False accusations of rape can ruin a man’s life permanently.

    Don’t the most prolific PUAs have to worry about something like that?

    Like


  516. “White man food” made me LOL. I don’t have anything against Ghost of Nicole; she has no sexual value to me either way since I am not attracted to women… but if the media is responsible for enforcing distorted ideas about healthy eating, don’t you think that would affect the entire population equally? Not just um, black women?

    Like


  517. you have made me sick since half sigma years ago.

    Your claptrap fuels the anger within me, but then you’re a useless submissive cunt who isn’t capable of much.

    and guess what, no one thinks niggers are important players–everyone just wishes they would leave or die.

    By making your husband the captain, you are the nigger.

    Like


  518. @Nicole
    Wow, you went to a meeting at 20? I suppose that’s a brave step, at most people around my age are still figuring out their needs and wants. You seem really knowledgeable about all this.

    @Doug
    Yeh, it’s nice you’re defending aoefe.🙂 I would miss her commentary, too.

    Like


  519. oh, now you know warpig is delusional….she’s talking about how the mythical/undefineable “relationship” is more important that fuckability.

    B.S.

    You join D/s to fuck someone. Period. You both hopefully get off on the same way of fucking, but it is always about sex.

    Warpig, the only reason you’re accepted is because there’s a dearth of women joining up to get splayed by 85 year old guys wearing leather chaps.

    That’s it. They only accept you *because there’s no hotter alternative.*

    Like


  520. @Nicole
    Wow, you went to a meeting at 20? I suppose that’s a brave step, as most people around my age are still figuring out their needs and wants. You seem really knowledgeable about all this.

    @Doug
    Yeh, it’s nice you’re defending aoefe.🙂 I would miss her commentary, too.

    Like


  521. S, are Black women the only fat women in the U.S.?

    We’re only 8% of the population, and over 50% are overweight now according to the stats.

    It’s not just us. Stop eating canola and other fake foods, and limit your carbs. Your liver and your waistline will thank you.

    Like


  522. S., you’re racist for saying that!, lol!

    Warpig hasn’t let logic ruin her conspiracy theories.

    Like


  523. @S
    Actually, I don’t think Nicole is saying that white people are making black people fat. If that IS what she’s saying, I totally disagree.

    What I think she’s saying (and where I agree) is that in America at least, there’s a huge food problem.

    Having lived abroad for quite a while and travelling about, I have seen that people eat much healthier elsewhere, whereas in America we eat a lot of processed, unnatural types of foods that keep us fat and keep us imprisoned in an unhealthy state. And our media and culture keeps telling us that it’s okay.

    The link to white people may have to do with the fact that they are by and large in charge in the U.S., thus they may have some responsibility for the marketing and production of these terrible foods and dietary habits.

    Like


  524. Warpig, black women have a much worse problem with weight than non-black women.

    Canola is a fake food? lol. I love the diet heads. They want to be eat a lot, but they cut out “bad” food completely to make it seem rational.

    Stop eating, warpig!

    If you want to lose weight, do this: fast. Pick 1-2 days a week, and don’t eat.

    The rest of the time, eat like you normally do (i.e. don’t “bank” savings and gorge later).

    You will be thin. Presto!

    Like


  525. @Ghost of Nicole:

    I was basing that comment based on some stats Dana posted earlier. I’d need to refind them, but they essentially said in the Black and Hispanic population rates of obesity were higher than in the white population. It’s definitely a problem across the board, but again, moreso in lower income populations, with the exception of Asian minorities.

    Like


  526. David Alexander Unplugged,

    Why do you still see them as human beings who deserve to be treated as such? They have certainly not reciprocated your gestures.

    I say.. just start seeing them as objects which can please you, and find a way to get a pleasing interaction with such objects.

    Like


  527. I think people in the U.S. are big in general. White, black, whatever, men, women.

    Like


  528. Dreamer, I replied to this particular passage:

    the media misinforms people about what they should and shouldn’t be eating based on outdated and overgeneralized information = White people are making us fat

    Even if the media is controlled by white people, the average, middle-income white family really isn’t in on any sort of conspiracy. And disregarding race, if the media in general is espousing misinformation regarding diet, everyone would be equally affected.

    Like


  529. The link to white people may have to do with the fact that they are by and large in charge in the U.S., thus they may have some responsibility for the marketing and production of these terrible foods and dietary habits.

    Right, like Europeans are not white or something?

    Like


  530. Dreamer:”The link to white people may have to do with the fact that they are by and large in charge in the U.S.”

    White Americans are no longer in charge in the USA, and we haven’t been since about the mid-1960s or so – Jews have taken over the USA, and Jews aren’t White in the sense that Northern/Western Europeans are.

    Ever since the ‘Jewish Revolt’ of the 1960s, American Whites have been relegated mostly to positions of lower/middle-management while the Jewish plutocrats (with the assistance of their upper-middle-class bureaucratic Jewish underlings) rape our once-bountiful land.

    Like


  531. I don’t know why this is a “white person” issue, anyway. I think everyone really means to be speaking in terms of income. Black & hispanics are larger on average because they comprise more of the lower income groups.

    Like


  532. Dreamer, I’d been in a D/s relationship before that. 19 was just when I entered the “scene” as a Domme. The scene is much more fluid now than it used to be, but some things still hold true. The couples/groups tend to set the tone, and few are headed by people under 30. Most I’ve seen are 40+.

    Those who’d have trouble seeing someone’s unusually agile grandma bringing snacks on her knees to Master Grandpa are redirected to their local goth or emo grotto or whatever.

    Like


  533. Dreamer–

    The link to white people may have to do with the fact that they are by and large in charge in the U.S.

    They’re even more in charge in continental Europe, where people eat a lot more healthily.

    The two things which distinguish American from continental Europe that might be relevant here, it seems to me, are:

    1) much more feminism in America, which relevant to this food and fatness discussion translates to less female time and attention spent on traditional food preparation and more substitution of food industry fast and easy solutions, which bring with them more refined carbs and sugars, cause that’s where the profit margins are;

    2) less traditionalism in general, outside of feminism. See above for effects. Part of why less though is because of leftists attacking all traditonalism as being suspect racist. If that seems far fetched, ask me about it, because it isn’t, but takes a bit to draw out and explain.

    Like


  534. on August 16, 2009 at 7:11 pm Mu'Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin

    lurker,

    black women have a much worse problem with weight than non-black women.

    And part of this is because black men actually want black women to be obese.

    There was a whole post here proving it, with a poll.

    When black men say they are attracted to Scarlett, shown here.

    It really is because they are attracted to this.

    Black female obesity is encouraged by black men, due to their hard-wring from their days in Africa, when women who resemble the might and power of the great beasts (elephant, rhino, hippo, cape buffalo) in size, shape, color, and texture, were admired.

    Despite their removal from Africa, they old preferences still exist.

    Like


  535. Nova,
    Just wanted to get back to you on your thoughts about the “Kitchen Bitch” trend.

    I’ve read your thoughts on the matter over at Whiskey’s blog, and after giving it some thought, I have to say that I largely agree w/your position: there’ll most likely be a number of approaches to the “deregulation” of Marriage if you will: some will learn nd apply Game; others will simply Thug It Up, as Whiskey has suggested; others will either maintain or become Apex-Alpha Males in the political/economic/social sense; others will become Kitchen Bitches; and finally, we’ll have a sector of Men who will simply go off the grid altogether.

    And I agree w/you, Marriage will effectively become the preserve of the Landed Gentry, an exercise of those who can most afford it. It will be more ornamental than utilitarian, and just about errbody else, small enclaves like the Mormons excepted, will simply fall out of marital norms for varying reasons.

    What really fascinates me is just how blind we were to the “animal” element of the massive shifts in our social habitat-by that I mean, that no one, not the feminists, economists, business leaders, political leaders, ever seemed to give any thought to this basic fact of life. And its odd to me, because many of the people who make up these groups are professed animal lovers and environmentalists, yet they failed to carryover the basic tenets of such interests into dealings w/human beings. When we deal w/species like say, the Panda bear, the first thing errbody’s concerned with, once their habitat is situated, is how they’re gonna get about the business of mating. And this is true for the spotted owl, bald eagle, brown spotted hawk, whales, polar bears, seals, etc et al-but no one gives any thought to human beings, how WE will get on aboutthe business of mating and relating if the social “eocsphere” changes in any major way.

    I think the reason for that is our American tradition of both Puritanism and by extension our squeamishness in talkin about sex; and second, our way of respecting individual choices and upholding individual freedoms.

    And a goodly bit of it all is a simple “law of unintended consequences” type stuff.

    But no matter how you slice it, at the end of the day, Today’s Women will simple have to grapple w/this very important fact-that there simply ain’t enough high earning Men to go around. How they will deal w/this new emerging truth on the ground, will be very interesting indeed to see.

    OK, Brown Sugah’s hopping up and down, so I have to go now.😉

    But holla back-I’ll check back in later.

    The Obsidian

    Like


  536. Mu’Min Seeks FAAAAT WuMin:

    I know you’ve cited that example a couple of times already, but, most of the blacks in the U.S. today have little or no cultural connections with Africa anymore. Do you really think it’s hard wiring? Also, overweight or obese black women are definitely distinct from black women, with a “shaplely posterior”, which I think is where the preference actually lies.

    Like


  537. — David Alexander is black while TJF is white, so thus, David Alexander is inferior.

    Agree and Amplify?

    — I think people in the U.S. are big in general. White, black, whatever, men, women.

    When I was out in Baltimore with my o m e g a friend Ace last weekend, we were commenting on the couples we saw around the Inner Harbor area. Wherever the chick was hot, we’d guess that she was American by a certain thickness that all American women have, even the slender ones. The real healthy-looking (not skinny or bony) chicks who were very willowy, with the sort of ballerina legs, we were certain were European, possibly Russian.

    — Even if the media is controlled by white people, the average, middle-income white family really isn’t in on any sort of conspiracy.

    The media is controlled by an elite class of white people, who are in a de-facto alliance with minorities in a defacto civil war against all other white people. Check out some comments on Salon to get the flavor.

    Like


  538. on August 16, 2009 at 7:17 pm Marcus Aureliette

    Tupac:
    Attracted?
    With your mind…or with your LOINS?

    Mind first, always. Loins come later. No pun intended.

    O:
    And lastly, MA…with all due respect, may I ask just how many relationships have you had in your life? I ask because what you say doesn’t seem to make much sense, unless we’re talking about the established pattern of Asian Women hooking up w/obviously Beta type White guys.

    Two serious long-term exclusive relationships, and three less-serious long-term exclusive relationships. (Less serious only in that I went into them not expecting them to last forever.) I am not Asian (although I’ve often wished I were) and truthfully, most of the advice dispensed here would drive me away, immediately.

    But I am an outlier; I know this. Nevertheless, I am not alone, and the impatient tone frequently taken by some here discounting the 5% or so (or however many) of people who don’t behave according to Game’s underlying principles? Comes across as evangelical posturing, and that is never, ever flattering. Or credible. Those who take that attitude do the whole concept of Game a disservice.

    I’m not attacking Game, nor those who use it, but it really doesn’t work on some women. Not a sufficiently large percentage to disrupt your success rates — surely there’s enough of a selection even without us oddballs — but the constant clamouring about how soulless/amoral/superficial ALL women are only serves to makes those of us who aren’t wonder why we should support any change on men’s behalf.

    I mean, what’s it to me if you guys get fleeced by she-demons? If you’re going to act like we’re all interchangeable evil ratbags, then why should we (who aren’t) care about your fate?

    comment whatever:
    It’s interesting how much doug, lurker, and Marcus Aureliette are a product of their college years. That is, lawyer school.

    Ha! Interesting company you’re grouping me in, but no, I’m not a lawyer, nor anything even remotely related to it. But, um…thanks, I guess?

    Like


  539. Why do you still see them as human beings who deserve to be treated as such?

    Because to treat women as human beings regardless of their decision to waste their lives away as submissives looking for dominant men or their innate attraction toward alpha men is what good people do. To treat women poorly because of their choices in this area is wrong, and I couldn’t live with myself if I ever slid down into the world of the evil sub-human male.

    To hate women in the way that you would be the ultimate tragedy and the destruction of that real world person who types his loneliness away with a bunch of random people online who serve as de facto friends. Just as how I can’t see myself using game and not being that warm squishy guy that my niece, goddaughter, and nephew hug, I can’t become the bitter, mean woman hating man or a Soldini.

    The media is controlled by an elite class of white people, who are in a de-facto alliance with minorities in a defacto civil war against all other white people.

    Remember PA, you are white. I am white. We are not white. They are white.

    Like


  540. S, it’s not even really affecting Black women uniformly. I saw many more fat Black women in more metropolitan areas than I did in more “country” areas and relatively smaller cities, or “walking cities”.

    I think we’re affected worse by inactivity, and maybe it’s genetic. Efficient metabolisms are made for long hours of physical labor. I’ve noticed even Russian women here in Israel “blowing up” if they’re not careful.

    I don’t think there’s a fat gene…just a sort of genetic profile that will make a person suffer more from strange fats, simple carbs, and relative inactivity because they’re not adapted to luxury.

    Like


  541. I think the reason for that is our American tradition of both Puritanism and by extension our squeamishness in talkin about sex; and second, our way of respecting individual choices and upholding individual freedoms.

    And a goodly bit of it all is a simple “law of unintended consequences” type stuff.

    But no matter how you slice it, at the end of the day, Today’s Women will simple have to grapple w/this very important fact-that there simply ain’t enough high earning Men to go around. How they will deal w/this new emerging truth on the ground, will be very interesting indeed to see.

    @ Obsidian —

    I agree with you in that women are going to be facing some hard choices: hypergamy will face the wall because there just won’t be enough hypergamous men. However, I don’t know why we won’t see a repeat of what has happened in the black community: single motherhood or, as an option, “voluntarily single” because there aren’t any suitable mates. I would think that both of those will be a large chunk of the future society for white and other races in North America.

    I think you’re right that puritanism perhaps played a role in overlooking the obvious mating issues. Another huge factor, though, was a belief (now largely disproved) that humans are blank slates, and that there are no “innate wirings” for human beings — so that if you change the culture and mores, you change the behavior in a very predictable and controlled way. Well, that was an awfully stupid way to think, and typical of the hubris of contemporary social science.

    In an act of almost protean revenge, nature has roared back and asserted itself, taking human mating patterns back several thousand years at least, and in no way being responsive to the so-called “engineered mores” of the feminists and other blank slaters. In effect, they thought they could remove the bonds of culture and tradition and replace them with something else, and have learned the hard way that all they did was re-invigorate raw nature with no meaningful or widely credible restraints. That they overlooked this as a likely outcome can only be attributed to their pride, and their misguided belief in Marxist ideas about socially-dependent malleability of human behavior. There are limits on that, and one of the main ones is that if you remove all social conditions, things quickly revert to a primitive state — much to their chagrin.

    And yet human nature is not the main culprit for what we see today. The social engineers put their thumbs on the scale by permitting widespread abortion and contraception, which eliminated the “natural check” on the sexuality of women, quite apart from any social opprobrium. With those removed, you have female sexuality unleashed — unmoored from any natural tethering or consequence and free to pursue its own satisfaction in a way that is thoroughly unnatural, imbalanced and distorting. And, of course, social havoc has ensued. For that we can blame not nature, but the social engineers who deliberately supported the removal of several of the more meaningful natural checks and balances on human sexuality — and the reason they did so, I think, is pride and a failure to see the limitations of their own ideas or to appreciate the visceral, primeval power of human sexuality, particularly when it is unleashed from any natural checks.

    Like


  542. on August 16, 2009 at 7:32 pm Anonymous for now

    Doug:

    1) much more feminism in America, which relevant to this food and fatness discussion translates to less female time and attention spent on traditional food preparation and more substitution of food industry fast and easy solutions, which bring with them more refined carbs and sugars, cause that’s where the profit margins are;

    Whaaat? Most women who appreciate feminism are extremely health conscious as a result, in part, of more education and such not always afforded the lower-income and those focused on raising say, 5 kids.

    I have much more time (and money) to work out at the gym and shop for healthy groceries than I would in a more “traditional role”.

    Like


  543. but the constant clamouring about how soulless/amoral/superficial ALL women are only serves to makes those of us who aren’t wonder why we should support any change on men’s behalf.

    I mean, what’s it to me if you guys get fleeced by she-demons? If you’re going to act like we’re all interchangeable evil ratbags, then why should we (who aren’t) care about your fate?

    @M.A. —

    It’s kind of irrelevant, because women as a whole will not support any changes in that regard until the roof is caving in. So while it’s nice to say that, it has no practical impact, really.

    Like


  544. Re Obesity. White Underclass British women used to be skinny as a rail, everyone from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle to WWII British films depicted them as skinny. They did a lot of physical labor, and did not get much to eat.

    Now, they are really, really fat. It is because of convenience foods, which are easier than cooking, though far more expensive. Celebrity Chefs like Jamie Oliver have programs to show people how to cook, and save money, but with few takers. Dalrymple details how only upper class folk and Indian/Chinese shoppers will come to local ethnic markets, buy cheap food in bulk, and cook it. The Indian/Chinese, with intact family structures, at home. The Upper class, themselves or servants.

    Here in the US, the explosive growth of the Food Network, and their biggest star, nerdy-male appealing Alton Brown, has been with Men. Cook’s Illustrated used to be 17% male readership a decade ago, now it’s 51%. Any time I am in the supermarket, I see single men shopping with Food Network web recipe printouts for ingredients. Cooking at home allows you to control weigh, avoid obesity, and save money, but requires middle class social capital — lacking in White Chav Britain or Black Ghetto women. Obesity hits younger women harder than younger men, of course. It’s as simple as cooking at home, or not.
    ————————–
    Obsidian — I agree, almost entirely with your conclusions about marriage being ornamental at best. I don’t think that we are squeamish about sex talk (look at all those icky Viagra/Levitra/Natural Male Enhancement or “her pleasure” ads). Nor were the Puritans within marriage shy about sex or talking about it. Rather, I think it is arrogance and post-Christian nonsense about denying our status as animals. For SWPL yuppies, animals exist on one plane, natural and “good” and humans on another, un-natural and “evil” and having nothing to do with the other.

    Like


  545. anonymous for now:

    “Whaaat? Most women who appreciate feminism are extremely health conscious as a result,”
    —lol, no. They drink themselves unconscious, are much mro elikely to use illegal (re: dangerous drugs), sleep around, try to have kids later so as to have a career early(dangerous fro both themselves and their offspring), and unnaturally raise their stress levels doing white-collar work.

    They do everything they can to insure hypertension, sub-par children, and misery.

    “in part, of more education and such not always afforded the lower-income and those focused on raising say, 5 kids.”
    —you mean higher education in humanities and sociology, which means shit.

    “I have much more time (and money) to work out at the gym and shop for healthy groceries than I would in a more “traditional role”.”
    —-wrong. You have more time to 1) look like a lesbians dream—a muscle bound disgusting man-beast;
    2) stay at home mothers spend a lot more time shopping—you just order from fresh direct and call it a night
    3) you money is laughable. a stay at home mom can make much better food at much lower prices because she can cook.

    Your lifestyle, feminist? FAIL.

    Like


  546. Women gain weight when they act like men, which makes sense, since they are acting unnaturally, so their bodies don’t know what to do. To wit: If you hike the appalachian trail and are a girl, you will gain weight (muscles developing), but men will lose it.

    This is why girls get secretary ass.

    Like


  547. What’s secretary ass?

    Like


  548. S, its where a woman sits for a job (secretary’s) and her ass grows disproprotionally larger from sitting, not wokring out, and eating doughnuts.

    Picture a non-black girl with a black girl’s ass tacked on and you’ll get the idea. Or look at the ass of any secretary over 35.

    Like


  549. There’s also doctor’s office receptionist ass.

    And stomach, and thighs, and arms.

    You know, big all over.

    Like


  550. If there weren’t affirmative action and black women in human resources departments there would be hardly any black secretaries because the huge majority of productive men in business don’t want them.

    There would be lots of all other races of “adminstraive assistants” just few black ones.

    At least until they had major attitude adjustments.

    Wait — what?

    You mean the end of AA might mean some beneficial black attitude adjustments?????

    Like


  551. Mandy😄

    You know girlfriend that Lurker is a complete ass re: you and that I’m behind you against him 100%. Right?

    Always girlfriend. You’re a delight around here.

    He’s nuts. Everyone thinks so and you are widely liked.

    Just want to make sure you know that.

    Always.

    Like


  552. @doug1:

    That means a lot coming from you. :3

    You’re awesome Dougie!

    Like


  553. A question:

    Since everyone here is talking about fat, has anyone ever done a large statistically reliable study that shows a linear correlation between life expectancy and incidence of chronic diseases vs obesity?

    The best data to date shows that being underweight causes a much larger increase in your risk of dying (from all causes) than being fairly overweight. Essentially, being 50% overweight causes a smaller increase in the risk of death from all causes than being 15% underweight.

    The incidence of insulin resistance, hepatic steatosis (fatty liver), atherosclerosis, type II diabetes have a much stronger linkage to high carbohydrate (and low protein diets). So lower carb diets and moderate (but regular) alcohol consumption will have a much bigger effect on incidence of lifestyle disease than any amount of exercise or natural foods.

    But then ‘educated’ idiots cannot blame others for so called “poor choices”. There is a lot in common between 18th century doctors who blamed tuberculosis in poor people on insolence + moral impurity and doctors today who blame chronic diseases on bad lifestyle.

    In both cases, hubris ridden white men pretended that they knew the answers. Reality, however does not give a fuck!

    Like


  554. lmao@Doug
    “Wait — what? You mean the end of AA might mean some beneficial black attitude adjustments?????”

    Wow. Ok.

    Know what? You’re right (though that’s never surprising)

    also, lol @ the “secretary ass” comment

    ok, now i have a name for that indefinable phenomenon… too funny.

    Like


  555. Belly fat produces insulin resistance, not the other way around. Remember this simple rule: If it looks bad it is bad. Beer guts looks awful. They are awful.
    Trust your instincts.
    The results of successful weight loss surgeries tell a lot. Just by creating a mandatory negative calorie balance, diabetes and hypertension often go away overnight – regardless of carbs/protein/whatever.

    Like


  556. lurker

    finally, kid, you say something intelligent. Good job.

    A teenager calling an adult a kid. How amusing. Also, you need to learn what sarcasm is.

    Like


  557. doug1: coming from a pussy sucking up to a 17 year old street walking-commie, that means a lot.

    tjf:
    “A man calling an spaz out on being a spaz. thank you.”
    —FTFY. And you’re welcome.

    “Also, you need to learn what sarcasm is.”
    —lol. anyone else have a pot/kettle joke to insert here?

    Haven’t you and Mandy created your fanatasy-unicorn children yet?

    Like


  558. cunty:
    “There’s also doctor’s office receptionist ass.

    And stomach, and thighs, and arms.

    You know, big all over.”
    —you’d know all about that, wouldn’t you cunty?

    Like


  559. All of this discussion of fat women makes me wonder: what do people here consider “fat”?

    Like


  560. I will say this slowly, for cunty’s wee little brain to digest:

    “doctor’s office receptionist ass”
    —I know your little Nobama loving pc-mindset can’t wrap your head around this but…..

    receptions=pc term for secretary.

    a dr.’s office secretary is a secretary.

    So secretary ass.

    you lose, cunty!

    Like


  561. click on warpig’s name to see her picture.

    Like


  562. Lurker–

    I have so many women so hungrily and seductively after my manly and bodily essences that I haven’t managed to get around to even asking Mandy about that yet.

    So sorry Lurker.

    Like


  563. right pussy….just kissing ass on a web board. You got that white knight outfit on?

    Like


  564. I think BMI is generally a good indicator of what “fat” is, but really, I think it’s pretty visually evident. If a girl has a small frame, and she’s carrying a lot of extra weight, and it just looks awkward, you know she’s hefty. I’ve seen some girls with naturally bigger frames, who might weigh the same as aforementioned small framed girls, but they look proportioned and slim in general, not flabby. It all comes down to proportion & frame.

    Like


  565. why does it not surprise me that a white knight would beta-ly worship the feet of a commie loving Nobama fan like cuntrag?

    Like


  566. Rum,

    Sure.. hepatic steatosis and visceral adiposity are both caused by high carb diets, but you still do not get it!

    Countries like japan (thin, low fat) have the same life expectancy as france (thin, high fat, alcohol) and italy + greece (not thin + hight fat + alcohol) and australia (not thin + high fat + high carb+beer).

    All developed countries, with the exception of USA have around the same life expectancy (just over 80). Race, size, diet does not matter. Sure japanese have fewer heart attacks, but more cancers. Greeks have fewer cancers but more of something else.

    In the end it comes out to about the same. Nobody is immortal.

    Barring some way to make the human body repair itself better or not age (both are possible) diet + exercise as preventative medicine are just pleasant delusions.

    I am not suggesting that you should sit on your couch and eat mac’ and cheese. However, beyond moderate exercise, walking, moderate (+ regular alcohol) and a somewhat balanced diet- there is no additional gain from living “healthy”.

    Like


  567. Lurker is a teenager? Lurker, how old are you?

    Like


  568. @S
    that’s a fair assessment…
    i guess it seems like most guys here might be into women who are really “thin” and consider non-thin (but bmi healthy) women as fat.

    lol@ “manly essences”
    hope that’s a joke…

    Like


  569. Also, I’d like to solicit advice from anyone willing to help, on dating older men.

    Where do I meet older men? I’m twenty years old; I would definitely feel out of place and a bit frumpy in a high-end, “mature”, lounge setting. I’m not looking for anybody with money; that’s immaterial. I am looking for someone who’s a little bit worldly, who’s willing to teach me a few things about life, and put up with my intellectual naivete.

    How do I behave? Should I be overtly conscious of my age? Should I make an extra effort to appear sophisticated and mature, or would that come across as disingenuous? I am pretty precocious for my age (I think), so I’m not sure how this factors in. Or, do older men generally appreciate a little bit of youthful sprightlyness?

    Any and all advice appreciated!

    Like


  570. S.,

    BMI is the most useless measure of body weight. The most relevant measure, visceral adiposity, requires an abdominal NMR.

    However, since visceral adiposity appears to be closely tied to chronic inflammatory response.. C-reactive protein levels are a good proxy of whether obesity is hurting you.

    Essentially people with CRP < 0.6-0.7 mg/dL have a very small risk of MI. Between 1 and 2 mg/dL -normal to increased risk of MI, and above 2.5.. or 3.5.. significantly higher risk of MI.

    CRP is however only a proxy measurement for chronic inflammation and not the cause of atherosclerosis.

    CRP goes up with high carb diets and down with statins and alcohol. Indians often eat high carb (low protein diets) and do not drink regularly and act surprised that they are prone to Type II DM and MIs.

    Like


  571. S

    How do I behave?

    Act “serious.” You’re not about childish nonsense. To begin with.

    But throw out hints.

    It’s really extremely easy. It’s a bit hard for me to think you’re actually having trouble with it.

    Like


  572. on August 16, 2009 at 11:05 pm The Fifth Horesman

    S,

    Black & hispanics are larger on average because they comprise more of the lower income groups.

    No. That is a left-wing scam. In America, the healthiest food is actually the cheapest, contrary to the myth that is propagated.

    Any no-frills grocery store has fresh fruits and veggies at a price that is very low, far lower than eating at McDonalds.

    Eating bad foods comes from lack of information, not lack of income.

    Like


  573. Thanks, Doug. The problem is that i get intimidated easily, and subsequently awkward, so that I always feel like I’m embarrassing myself. I don’t know where to meet older guys, and I don’t know if I should assume that 75% of them are married.

    Fifth Horseman, I think you’re right. I noticed that too. On a student budget, it’s way easier for me to grocery shop than buy take out everyday. I guess I just figured that since the common consensus was that low income is the culprit behind obesity, who am I to argue it?

    Like


  574. on August 16, 2009 at 11:17 pm The Fifth Horesman

    Doug1

    It’s really extremely easy. It’s a bit hard for me to think you’re actually having trouble with it.

    She has some Indian ancestry. While she will not have the troubles that a full Indian would have, note that any Indian is approaching the subject of human sexuality with an extreme culturally-induced disadvantage. Indian culture has an elaborate system of denial that keeps their understanding of human sexuality frozen at age 12 – particularly for Indians born before 1960.

    S,

    When you say ‘older’, like how old? 7 years older than you? 10? 15?

    Match.com is a great experimentation ground, where you can test how you really feel about such a thing, in a relatively short time.

    Like


  575. “Any no-frills grocery store has fresh fruits and veggies at a price that is very low, far lower than eating at McDonalds.”

    hmm…. as a grocery shopper I’m not sure about that.

    Like


  576. on August 16, 2009 at 11:21 pm The Fifth Horesman

    S,

    I guess I just figured that since the common consensus was that low income is the culprit behind obesity, who am I to argue it?

    That is called ‘not being a sheep’.

    It was once the common consensus that the Earth is flat. It is also the ‘common consensus’ among lefty women that America is a misogynistic society, when in reality, the opposite is quite the prevalent reality at this time.

    Read Myth 4 here, about food and obesity.

    Read all the myths, in fact, particularly Myth 2.

    Like


  577. Lucifere

    I am feeling mostly disoriented right now because I agree with so much of your last screed.
    There is indeed an upper limit, a plateax in old age where wise lifestyle choices cannot take you further.
    But if we looked a better question: Will you be fucking at seventy and if so what level of quality and enthusiasm can one expect to encounter- that is very much in play so go forth to the fucking gym.
    Dying of old age is easy, and its is Fate. Fucking in old age is possible, but mainly for those who resist fate.

    Like


  578. on August 16, 2009 at 11:27 pm The Fifth Horesman

    Jerrdog,

    hmm…. as a grocery shopper I’m not sure about that.

    Unless you are in Manhattan, fruits and vegetables are cheap.

    Are you shopping in an SWPL store where each tomato is pre-selected to be perfect, and priced at $3/pound, or do you know of any ethnic grocery store where tomatos are correctly priced at no more than $1/pound (but you have to browse for the good ones).

    Go to the latter. Several bags of fruits and veggies, that would take you a week to consume, can be bought for $20.

    Like


  579. Fifth Horseman:

    15 or 20 years older. The online thing seems like the most feasible option at this point, since I don’t know where 20 year old women and 35-40 year old men converge socially.

    Like


  580. on August 16, 2009 at 11:29 pm Comment_Whatever

    MA said:

    Ha! Interesting company you’re grouping me in, but no, I’m not a lawyer, nor anything even remotely related to it. But, um…thanks, I guess?

    I find that extraordinarily unlikely.

    Like


  581. Whole Foods in Manhattan is silly to buy from unless you’re buying specific somethings to fancify an otherwise ordinary meal. Even in NYC, there are a lot of smaller markets available that carry affordable groceries. I notice that people who live in cities are lazy about that sort of thing, because take out is so prevalent.

    Like


  582. on August 16, 2009 at 11:42 pm The Fifth Horesman

    S (choose a more inventive handle, btw).

    Note that if you voluntarily date a man 15-20 years older than you, despite the meeting being between consenting adults, women who are 40 will hate you, while also saying that the man is a misogynist (the contradiction is not visible to them), as per this UK feminist.

    You do not have to meet a certain level of maturity to date such a man (although self-improvement is always good). He will expect you to be, well, a 20 year old.

    Like


  583. S–

    OMG, you’re in Manhattan?

    Like me?

    Careful!!!

    I’m devilishly seductive, when on the trail. And you’re starting to intrigue me.

    CARE!

    Like


  584. Ah, I wish I was in Manhattan now! I spent a fair bit of time in Manhattan, because once upon a time I dated a New Yorker, so I’m familiar with the city. I’m in Toronto, though. Miss Manhattan too much, however!

    Like


  585. Mandy XD!,

    “I love how people who cheat are the ones who are the most paranoid about their mates (girlfriend/wife/fiance/etc) cheating on them. It makes me wonder if they recognize these negative attributes in people better because these negative attributes lie within themselves.”

    Wow, what an original thought.

    Lurker,

    Why are conservatives always so belligerent and angry?

    Like


  586. on August 16, 2009 at 11:58 pm Comment_Whatever

    S. said:

    Where do I meet older men? I’m twenty years old; I would definitely feel out of place and a bit frumpy in a high-end, “mature”, lounge setting. I’m not looking for anybody with money; that’s immaterial. I am looking for someone who’s a little bit worldly, who’s willing to teach me a few things about life, and put up with my intellectual naivete.

    How do I behave? Should I be overtly conscious of my age? Should I make an extra effort to appear sophisticated and mature, or would that come across as disingenuous? I am pretty precocious for my age (I think), so I’m not sure how this factors in. Or, do older men generally appreciate a little bit of youthful sprightlyness?

    Don’t forget that you don’t have to LOOK or SAY the ‘I’m interested’ subtext. Wear soft, touchable clothing, use the early levels of kino.

    Kino works just as well for women as men. This is completely transferable and most women and men in the USA and satellites are touch-starved.

    The only difference is a woman may not want to escalate past the early parts.

    This works AFTER the relationship has begun to.

    Creating visual attraction is pushed hard because it WORKS. But it isn’t the only thing that does.

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  587. The Fifth Horesman,

    Over half my cousins in India are divorced.. I am not sure that urban india is like what your father/mother remember it.

    In all cases, women initiated the divorce, in more than a few they cheated.

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  588. Rum,

    Testosterone gel, 5-alpha reductase inhibitors (finazestride, dutasteride), PDE 5 inhibitors (sildenafil, tadalafil etc)+ moderate excercise and low carb diet are enough. Moderate alcohol is also good.

    Maybe methylphenidate, bupropion, modafinil etc for your brain… nicotine patches also help.

    Oh.. and a 20-30 year old escort.

    and you will be having fun at 70-80..

    Like


  589. on August 17, 2009 at 12:10 am The Fifth Horesman

    Lucifer,

    Divorce rate in India as a whole, even for middle and upper class, is still under 10%. It will rise a lot in the near future, but for now, it is still much, much lower than the West.

    Indian Divorce laws do not have any provision in which the women get money. That makes a big difference. Also, divorce is not ‘no fault’ – the other party has to ‘release’ the one who wants divorce, which means that the jilted party can keep the other tied up for years.

    There are, of course, dowry laws where the whole family of the man could be jailed, and which are being abused by women for extortion (at least this is not possible in America), but those are relatively new.

    Like


  590. The Fifth Horesman,

    The rate of divorce in the indian upper middle-class is already over 30% (for people born since 1970). In the case of my extended family, it already has gone past 50%.That is where it is headed.

    Second marriages are also quite common, as is female cheating, office affairs and all the other stuff that whites used to think that only they were capable of. It turns out that indians, given the chance, outdo the worst excesses of whites.

    Like


  591. Lucifer:

    Testosterone gel, 5-alpha reductase inhibitors (finazestride, dutasteride), PDE 5 inhibitors (sildenafil, tadalafil etc)+ moderate excercise and low carb diet are enough. Moderate alcohol is also good.

    Don’t forget resistance training. It activates a totally different biochemical cascade (testosterone) than does cardio excercise. Good for the bones as well.

    Yoga and foam-rolling/A.R.T./Rolfing is also good for breaking up character armor. Reichian body therapy is excellent for backfeeding neuromuscular signals to the brain/cortical homunculus.

    Maybe methylphenidate, bupropion, modafinil etc for your brain… nicotine patches also help.

    MPH is OK in short phases, but ultimately deterioriates receptors.

    Bupropion is good, I prefer Deprenyl/Segeline. If libido is what you’re after, I hear good things about Cabergoline (but only on an as-needed basis).

    Fish Oil/Omega-3’s, Acetyl-L-Carnitine and Piracetam are what I add to my regimen for overall health and cognitive function.

    Like


  592. Lucifer:

    Testosterone gel, 5-alpha reductase inhibitors (finazestride, dutasteride), PDE 5 inhibitors (sildenafil, tadalafil etc)+ moderate excercise and low carb diet are enough.

    Don’t forget resistance training. It activates a totally different biochemical cascade (testosterone) than does cardio excercise. Good for the bones as well.

    Moderate alcohol is also good.

    Preferably in the form of red wine (resveratrol).

    Yoga and foam-rolling/A.R.T./Rolfing is also good for breaking up character armor. Reichian body therapy is excellent for backfeeding neuromuscular signals to the brain/cortical homunculus. and keeping one young and free from ossified movement patterns. (Think physiognomy)

    Maybe methylphenidate, bupropion, modafinil etc for your brain… nicotine patches also help.

    MPH is OK in short phases, but ultimately deterioriates receptors.

    Bupropion is good, I prefer Deprenyl/Segeline. If libido is what you’re after, I hear good things about Cabergoline (but only on an as-needed basis).

    Fish Oil/O m e g a -3’s, Acetyl-L-Carnitine and Piracetam are what I add to my regimen for overall health and cognitive function.

    Like


  593. Tupac Chopra,

    Methylphenidate and Bupropion are dopamine/noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors and are structurally similar.

    Methylpheniate has higher activity for D reuptake inhibition while Bupropion is more potent for NA reuptake inhibition. That is all!

    Bupropion is more likely to cause tachycardia, and Methylphenidate has a short half life.

    Like


  594. Hey, check out the hot babe.

    http://hbdbooks.com/2009/08/the-lovely-face-of-the-anti-hate-movement/

    Definetly at least a 9.

    Why are all the pretty ones liberal?

    Like


  595. S

    PS. The reason I’d like to try to help you is because of some of the very sexy attitudes you’ve expressed here.

    Same with aoefe, and even Mandy😄, (though as a religiously committed and very young virgin, she get’s a lot of allowances).

    Like


  596. Lucifer:

    Methylphenidate and Bupropion are dopamine/noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors and are structurally similar.

    Do you believe Methylphenidate is not neurotoxic?

    Methylpheniate has higher activity for D reuptake inhibition while Bupropion is more potent for NA reuptake inhibition. That is all!

    “Fuck you, Lucifer”

    Like


  597. I’m getting turned on by all this cryptic chemical speak.

    Like


  598. Tupac Chopra,

    Methylphenidate has been around since the 1960s. There is no good evidence that it is neurotoxic to any degree, at used dosages. (upto 80mg/day)

    Ibuprofen gives dogs bad stomach ulcers, morphine (many opioids) cause cats to go nuts and a few still used anti-histamines causes arrhythmias is some animal species. So?

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  599. Lucifer:

    Ibuprofen gives dogs bad stomach ulcers, morphine (many opioids) cause cats to go nuts and a few still used anti-histamines causes arrhythmias is some animal species. So?

    Short term homeostatic responses are one thing, but permanant alterations in receptor density?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11322741

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  600. Tupac Chopra,

    In case you do not know, many conservatives in the US have opposed things that make people good for years. However they really gained strength after 1980, and used a lot of money and power to push their agenda.

    Do you really think that one cannot make antidepressant drugs that have no sexual side-effects? Such drugs existed in the 70’s and were about to usher a new era in treating depression, when conservatives came into power. Under the guise of reagan’s drug war, all this research and drugs were systematically demonized.

    It is only now after these ideological and monetary pressures have broken down that such drugs are being tested. Only now!.. after 30 fricking years. A new generation of triple reuptake inhibitors and D/NA reuptake inhibitors are only now being tested in humans.

    People think that liberals caused the west to decline, however it is conservatives who truly fucked it up.

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  601. Conservatives = Shitting on people, telling them what to do and trying to rule.

    “Liberals” = Shitting on people, telling them what to do and trying to rule.

    Both conservatives and liberals should be burnt in the same incinerators.

    Like


  602. Seems to me one of her motivations is getting the guy thrown in prison. She wrote that he was on the verge of mass murder, for God’s sake.

    I’m writing this as a guy who has literally stared down the barrel of a gun simply for filing for divorce and custody of my children.

    Given what Hope has written about her relationship with her ex, including frequent explosive fights, police involvement, etc., I’d say she is serious trouble.

    The problem is that lots of men are really stupid enough to believe this crap. The greatest power a young woman has is the ability to enlist others to fight her battles for her. It is a very formidable power, and whenever I see a woman using that power to go after a spouse I am extremely suspicious.

    Your power of projection truly astounds me, Welmer.

    I could have done a lot of things to my ex, but I didn’t do any of it when I asked for the divorce. I just wanted to get away. I never called the cops on him, so don’t project your ex-wife’s sins onto me. I understand that it was a difficult time for you, and I am truly sorry you had to go through that. But other people go through things, too. Yes even we horrible women.

    When he threatened to call the cops on my mom and screamed at us to get out, she was so pissed off and was yelling at him, too. I just stood there looking at the two of them. At that point I just wanted to get the hell out of there. No cops were called. I went back to my apartment with my mom, feeling like a teenager again, listening to my mom fuming about what happened and lecturing me.

    I don’t need anyone else to fight my battles for me. I do not want to see him in jail or unhappy. As I wrote previously, I bailed him out and helped expunge the DV incident off his record. Right now I just want him to be more positive and happier, so he stops talking about how much he wants to kill himself and how he no longer capable of love.

    Everyone is capable of love. Bitterness and resentment close you off from it. Don’t let it.

    Like


  603. Tupac Chopra,

    The majority of bio-medical research is fraudulent, based on cherry-picking, agenda driven, worthless and motivated by everything other than science.

    I know what I am talking about.

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  604. Need I say more?

    –Jon and Kate Gosselin argue, police called to home.

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  605. Lucifer:

    Are you talking about MAOI’s? I’d agree with you. But that has more to do with liability. CYA in all things. You can’t expect the medical establishment to take those risks. The same applies to to TRT. It’s not a conspiracy though. Just CYA.

    Or are you talking about things like Reboxitine?

    Like


  606. Er, Reboxetine.

    Like


  607. Lucifer:

    Do you live in the U.S.?

    Or Bangladesh?

    Or the bowels of the earth?

    Like


  608. Tupac Chopra,

    Most of the “medical establishment” does not know the difference between their asses and heads. If modern drugs and technology did not exist, they would be no better than witch doctors.

    Infact, prior to the 1950s- a harvard trained doctor was more likely to kill you than a witch doctor.

    The biggest increases in human life expectancy came from water treatment, sewage treatment, food safety, vaccination, better working conditions, building codes and a 40 hour week.

    The single biggest drug related increase in life expectancy came from antibiotics.

    Like


  609. Tupac Chopra,

    Mountain Time Zone..

    Like


  610. Both conservatives and liberals should be burnt in the same incinerators.

    Here’s to hoping lurker has Glen Beck playing 24/7 as the light goes out.

    Poor guy.

    Like


  611. Lucifer:

    Tesofensine

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesofensine

    A diet drug. Not interested.

    Serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine_reuptake_inhibitor

    There is an inherent ambivalence in the creators of such drugs when their lower class customers feel empowered to end their lives in the face of inevitability, versus their upper class customers who see it as a means to greater success..

    Like


  612. lucifer:
    “Do you really think that one cannot make antidepressant drugs that have no sexual side-effects? Such drugs existed in the 70’s and were about to usher a new era in treating depression, when conservatives came into power.”

    read up on wellbutrin, remeron and trazadone. little to no sexual side effects (except for priapism with trazadone). all available right now as antidepressants and being prescribed regularly.

    Like


  613. CH:

    Alert The Media: Roosh has gone Hipster

    [editor: wow. there’s so much in that pic. so very very much. starting with his butt buddy’s limpwristed dangling hands.

    How you like your boy now, dawg??? 🙂

    Like


  614. lurker

    FTFY. And you’re welcome.

    You’re quoting the wrong person (some figment of your imagination apparently). Pay more attention.

    Like


  615. Nova & Whiskey,
    You both make a powerful point about something I completely overlooked, and that’s the Academy and its “Blank Slate” outlook on life, which, as Pinker, among others in more recent years, have completely discredited. And indeed, thinking about it now, I agree that it is a lot more pervasive and powerful than the forces/causes I had suggested earlier. So again, my bad.

    I still do agree w/Whiskey in that I highly doubt the Kitchen Bitch option will be a large trend; rather, it will be just one of many options for Men in the Deregulation of Marriage Era; as I’ve said above, I think the more likely scenario will be a number of options among Men being played out, and like anything else on the capitalist sphere, it all depends on where you are on