In the course of your conversation with a woman you want to tell a story about yourself that flips those female attraction switches which Mystery so incisively described as “pre-selection by women, leader of men, and protector of loved ones”. But, honestly, how many men have those kinds of rip roaring yarns to tell which powerfully hit all those girl buttons? If you’re like most men, you likely have not led the life of an international man of mystery.
And of those men who *do* have stories like that to tell, how many of them are able to relay their stories for maximum impact? I’ve known quite a few Marines who spent time overseas in the middle of some crazy shit inexplicably tell their tales in such a way as to render them boring and ineffectual. You have to learn to sell yourself. Sometimes even top notch goods sit moldy on the shelves for lack of marketing and salesmanship.
This is where having a story (or a routine, in old school parlance) memorized and ready for deployment is critical to a man’s success bedding women. There is nothing inherently beta or creepy about memorizing stories from your life to use over and over with different women. Alpha males, indeed, are the biggest violators of the supposed sanctity of extemporaneous jiving. If you’ve ever hung out at upper class parties and the like you’ll notice the top dogs returning to the same well again and again, telling their stories in exquisite detail and precise manner, using almost the same words and cadence each time, because they have learned how to tell their best stories to ensure smiles and squeals of delight from their rapt audience. So go ahead and commit to memory one or two great stories that feature you in a starring role. Like a good Boy Scout, you should always be prepared.
So what does the man without a great story do? Well, my friend, this is where knowledge of the fine art of fibbing will take you far. I’ll illustrate with an example from my own life. Let’s say you have just asked a girl a beaver baiting question like “If you could wake up tomorrow and be anywhere in the world, where would it be?” She gets excited by this question and answers. This allows you to segue into a DHV story like the one from my life below.
THE TRUE STORY
One of my vacations was at a tropical paradise. Sun, sand, waves, fruity cocktails. After an uneventful plane ride, I rented a scooter and rode to the villa I was staying at. I paid a taxi to take my luggage to the same spot. Upon settling in and admiring the ocean view for fifteen minutes, I slathered on suntan lotion and trundled to a small beach alcove known for its nude sunbathers, hoping to peep at boobies and snatch. Once there, a couple of fat Europeans obstructed my view with their bloated nakedness. It turned me off. I moved down the beach away from them and read “A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man”. Not the whole book, just the first few pages. I’m a slow absorbent reader. Then I went in the water and bobbed like a buoy. At 4pm, I walked to the tiki stand and bought a sandwich. On the walk back to the villa, I took a photo of three locals unloading crates from a red and yellow dingy docked at a tiny, empty beach. I watched them for a bit, when one of the gentlemen bounded up the craggy hillside and stopped directly in front of me. He barked at me to “stop taking snaps of my boat, mon.” Momentarily stunned, I looked at him like he was an alien. Finally, I said “Why? It’s legal.” He repeated himself, and threatened to steal my camera. I said “Yeah, sure, whatever” and walked off. Back at the villa, the concierge told me there was a drug running problem in these parts of the island, and that I was lucky not to get knifed. Relieved by my good fortune, I lounged at the pool until I fell asleep.
The next day, I went scuba diving. I was part of an instructional group, since I never scuba dived before. When I first plunged in the water I freaked out for a few seconds before gaining my composure and relaxing enough to breathe properly through the mouthpiece. A barracuda swam by me. It wasn’t very big or threatening. I could have petted it. Later in the afternoon I lounged at the beach again and ate another sandwich. The sandwich was delicious.
Day three. I decided snorkeling was more fun than scuba diving, so I rented some snorkeling gear and floated on top of the azure waters for a few hours watching small iridescent fish swim around. I got a sunburn on my back. I went to a club that night and hit on two French girls. One was interested, but she had a kid and an expensive coke habit.
Day four. More sunbathing. Oh yeah, and I went into town to browse the electronics shops and the ridiculously overpriced French fashion boutiques. I bought some liquor. Back at the villa I made a plate of brie cheese, baguettes, and red wine. The cheese made me gassy.
Day five. I went on a deep sea fishing boat to see how it was done. The waves were huge. I got seasick. My face turned green and I chucked over the side of the boat. The tall skinny black man operating the boat laughed at me. So did the little kid sitting next to me.
Day six. Having had my fill of sunbathing, I caught a ferry to a nearby island known for its excellent and invigorating hiking. The island was a dormant volcano that shot straight up out of the ocean. The hike was exhausting. 3,000 feet up took me all day. I saw a lot of green tropical plants along the way, and a couple of small lizards. I asked someone if the lizards were biters. They weren’t. I was disappointed. On the way down, I stopped at a small store and bought a trinket made of amber from an old, fat black woman.
Day seven. I went back to the same tiki stand, because why mess with success? They had tasty sandwiches. On the plane ride home, I jammed in earphones and listened to music.
***
Now this isn’t a horrible story, but it’s not exactly a panty-dropper, is it?
THE FUDGED STORY INTENDED TO INCITE MAXIMUM GINA TINGLE
[Addressing girl]: Your ideal vacation spot reminds me of the time I went to [tropical island] and wound up with an adventure I hadn’t bargained for. I was chatting with some French girls at this supposedly exclusive nude beach — and by the way, conversations take on a whole new feel when everyone is naked — when a big fat German dude plopped down right next to us. He was blocking out our sun like an eclipse, so we decided to leave. Since they were staying at the same villa I was at, I escorted them home. On the way, I stopped to take a pic of this interesting boat docked at a quiet beach alcove. Suddenly, one of the dudes unloading boxes from the boat bounded up the hillside and yelled at me to “stop taking snaps of my boat, mon!” I said, “What’s it to you” and he lunged at me and pushed a knife to my throat. The two French girls gasped. This was pretty scary. Thinking quickly, I told him that wasn’t a good idea because a bunch of people were walking towards us right at that moment. When he turned around to look, I grabbed one of the girl’s hands and dashed around him to safety just a few hundred yards away. He didn’t chase us. I told the cops about the incident, but as far as I know nothing was done. There’s a drug running problem at that island, and I got caught in the middle of it.
The unexpected adventure didn’t end there. I went scuba diving the next day and a shark that had to be ten feet long swam by me like a torpedo. The locals told me the sharks in those waters are harmless and won’t bother humans, but when you’ve seen them up close like that you don’t really believe all that bullshit. It was thrilling, sure, but I think I prefer watching sharks on TV.
I needed a break from all this unwanted excitement, so after an evening of red wine and French cheese while relaxing in the hot tub, I planned a hiking trip to a remote volcanic island that could be reached by ferry. On the hike up the mountain through thick rainforest and heavy fog, I stumbled across an old rickety shack with a sign outside that offered psychic services. Curious, I stepped inside and was greeted by an old black woman with an incredible accent. I don’t believe in psychic stuff, but I decided to let her read my fortune. Whatever it was, it wasn’t good. She stood up and said the session was over. Then she handed me an amber medallion and said it was a soulstone, which I should only give to a woman I will be with for the remainder of my life, because the woman who receives it will then have a piece of my soul. I still have the stone.
Have you ever gone deep sea fishing? If you do, take anti-seasickness pills. The waves were rocking the boat to the left and right. This boy sitting next to me was leaning over the railing trying to touch the flying fish when he got sick and started to slip over the side. I grabbed the kid before he fell into the ocean and told him to be careful. You’ve gotta wonder where this kid’s parents were just letting him take a deep sea fishing excursion by himself.
After all that, I think I would have been better off just hanging out at Ocean City. But it wasn’t all bad. I picked up some French while I was down there.
***
Pre-selected by women? Nude French girls. Check.
Protector of loved ones? Helped French girls escape drug lord. Check.
Leader of men? Rescued boy from drowning. Check.
Much improved.
Don’t feel bad about fibbing. You are doing the exact same thing a woman does when she attempts to present her mating market value in the best possible light through the use of makeup and coy mannerisms. Seduction is an intricate weave of truth and fiction, and women would have it no other way.

I don’t use stories too much. Women are too good at sniffing out inconsistencies. Ambiguities and evasion work better for me. Keep it mysterious. Let them assume what their ginas desire.
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ooohh…First! and second!
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My grandfather was a Marine in WWII and he sometimes tell us stories of his time fighting in the South Pacific. I agree, it’s all in how you tell it.
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I like the second variant, covers all the gina-tingling bases in five minutes flat. And I concur you need to have a few canned tales of derring-do on hand as ice-breakers and crowd-pleasers.
Ditto on the ability to tell a tale effectively; a great story, poorly told, is a crappy story.
Having actually been an international man of mystery, I can say that having some of those sagas to drop on gals will get you essentially limitless pussy. The job will also give you endless excuses for disappearing, acting sketchy, and just generally being a self-centered jerk. And the aura of mystery generates massive vag lube 24/7.
So guys, you might want to think about entering the IMM ranks for a while to get some primo tales to tell. Military service can be almost as good, if you do something hip and dangerous.
What you do not want to do is claim such things – ie saying you killed people with your bare hands when you’ve never served in anything – when they aren’t true. Gals will figure it out pretty fast, and think you’re a limp-dick twerp, and there’s always the chance you will encounter a bona fide IMM or Marine or somesuch who will spot you’re a fake then kick the crap out of you.
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Pre-selected by women? Nude French girls. Check.
Protector of loved ones? Helped French girls escape drug lord. Check.
Leader of men? Rescued boy from drowning. Check.
You’re too modest about the soulstone which was really the icing on the above cake. Always throw in a bait to appeal to the feminine ego.
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“Don’t feel bad about fibbing. You are doing the exact same thing a woman does when she attempts to present her mating market value in the best possible light through the use of makeup and coy mannerisms.”
I’ve been trying to make that point for 2 years now. Game = makeup and pushup bra for men. The added benefit of long term exposure to Game is that it actually will make you more attractive once your practiced behaviors take hold and become habit/natural.
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There is nothing inherently beta or creepy about memorizing stories from your life to use over and over with different women–as long as no one can tell that that’s what you’re doing.
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wow. the difference in the stories is tremendous, and i don’t even have a gina.
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I am not exactly an IMM, but I have an “interesting” and “cool” job. Unfortunately people tend to find me interesting for only a few minutes, then lose interest. I need to work on storytelling.
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It’s a good example, but you don’t use that second story. There’s no pauses for her reaction, no follow-ups or small jokes or contingencies.
A good story teller knows when and how the audience will react, and incorporates the reaction into the storytelling – in advance. The telling looks spontaneous though it isn’t.
I tell a story about surfing lessons and dolphins. Something like 60% of girls will go nuts when you mention dolphins, and so a quick, “I love that! California girls are so jaded about dolphins.” Then, continue the story.
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I said, “What’s it to you” and he lunged at me and pushed a knife to my throat. The two French girls gasped. This was pretty scary. Thinking quickly, I told him that wasn’t a good idea because a bunch of people were walking towards us right at that moment. When he turned around to look, I grabbed one of the girl’s hands and dashed around him to safety just a few hundred yards away. He didn’t chase us.
If you’re fibbing anyway, why not say you disarmed the guy and broke both his arms to teach him a lesson?
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The ‘soul stone’ thread is great. Anytime you can casually throw in some unsolicited chick-crack, you’re doing it right.
Too bad you didn’t have the foresight to buy a dozen ‘soul stones’ while you were there.
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True, but only gonna work on those un-slutty girls who haven’t travelled. The rest can spot you a mile away.
Where would I like to be, if I could be anywhere? In a TARDIS.
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If you’re fibbing anyway, why not say you disarmed the guy and broke both his arms to teach him a lesson?
Because then it’d be obvious you were lying. Are you retarded?
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1) The soulstone bit is money. Catnip.
” you’ll notice the top dogs returning to the same well again and again, telling their stories in exquisite detail and precise manner, using almost the same words and cadence each time, because they have learned how to tell their best stories to ensure smiles and squeals of delight from their rapt audience.”
Ive seen this firsthand amongst the greatest poon hounds, thats exactly what they do. A couple in particular do it so well that its a performance art unto itself.
There is one joke I know that Ive never known women not to fall for, but it would depend on one’s delivery.
—————————————————————————
Joke:
There was a young woman who was dating three men, and they were all in love with her. She was getting to be that age that she was beginning to think about settling down and a couple of babies, and she didn’t know what to do. She asked her mom about it, and her mom said, “give each of your beaus $500 and see what they do with it, it will reveal much about their character”.
She did so.
The first suitor bought her $500 worth of blouses from her favorite designer in her favorite colors. She really liked them and they looked good on her.
Bachelor number two bought himself $500 worth of dress-clothes for himself, so they he would look good when they went out together. She thought they looked good on him also, and that they made a stunning pair.
Her third lover invested the $500 day trading in his spare time at work on his computer. He turned that $500 into $1500 by the end of one month. He then split the money with her by giving her $750. She was ecstatic over this.
Do you know which guy she married? (the girl at this point usually says, “uhhhh” aloud while she mulls it over, and then will psuedo-weakly answer “the one who invested the money?”
You: No, the he one with the biggest dick.
(the punch line can be recounted with many different facial expressions or tonal innuendos depending on the girl/situation).
I don’t think I ever told that one to a gal who didn’t love it.
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“the concierge told me there was a drug running problem in these parts of the island”
Why wouldn’t you use this in the second story, especially since this was true?
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He did use it, but he made it sound better than just recounting what some dude told him.
“There’s a drug running problem at that island, and I got caught in the middle of it.”
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Was this Beaumont-Sur-Mer?
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The only part that seems somewhat far-fetched that I’d be surprised if nobody ever called BS on is the drug lord lunging at you with a knife to your throat and you tricking him into turning around like some kind of cartoon. Lol.
I always embellish stories, especially when talking to girls. I hate when friends try to cock block my story though…. I remember telling this one girl what part of town I was from and I could tell she thought it was rough, so I told her the story about when I played on the basketball team at school and some kid brought a gun to school and our coach had to handle the situation…. then my friend who was with me who happened to go to school with me was like “bullshit it was just a fuckin cap gun”…. thanks for killing my story, asshat.
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It’s in the story, not the truth. Image gets ’em wet, never the reality. (That, in a nutshell, is the essence of Game.) Lie, only losers get caught ot tell the truth.
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Hey, don’t knock on OC. Ocean city is the sheeet.
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GdI says: “Having actually been an international man of mystery, I can say that having some of those sagas to drop on gals will get you essentially limitless pussy. The job will also give you endless excuses for disappearing, acting sketchy, and just generally being a self-centered jerk. And the aura of mystery generates massive vag lube 24/7.”
Keep it dramatic… “There I was, I’ll never forget that day over Mach Grande… ”
Real badass action is often stupid and doesn’t have a good story, though. (WTF? as they say.) Find something that’s halfway decent and “embellish” it up. (Fiction has to make sence, war doesn’t, however.)
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Sorry, “Macho Grande”… yeah, from Airplane.
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For a literary example, read “The Leopard” by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa. The young Tancredi Falconieri has all the girls swooning over his story of rescuing nuns in a convent during the battle. His uncle, the old prince, marvels at his ability to hit all the right notes to turn the girls on (protector, hint of sexual danger, etc.). Much later in the story when the characters are all old, it’s revealed to have all been made up, and the girl who had fell for it and married him said that was obvious. It’s all part of the game.
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Just be careful you don’t end up like the car salesman in True Lies.
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What’s really good is if you had had some adventures (in other countries being the best) that you can exagerate a bit or change the major players like Roissy did here. That way you can tell it with more natural truth to make it go smoothly into the vaj.
I also like shorter stories that incite lots of dramatic questions. Always leave intriguing details out, but leave the subtle hints in.
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“You: No, the he one with the biggest dick.”
OLD! I heard this story about five years ago,
except it was gender-reversed, and he married
the one with the biggest breasts.
Are there really girls dumb enough to go
for this shit? OK, maybe there are?
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The danger with these is that you can get caught repeating them. John Edwards sold the same story to Kerry twice about his dead son, almost got dumped from the ticket over it.
Also, for most guys (well me anyway) that story is too long, and too much time for a tell. Better to boil it down to a punchier few lines that hit the buttons and relate to your own life. I.E. short and snappy.
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Law 32: Play to People’s Fantasies
The truth is often avoided because it is ugly and unpleasant. Never appeal to truth and reality unless you are prepared for the anger that comes from disenchantment. Life is so harsh and distressing that people who can manufacture romance or conjure up fantasy are like oases in the desert: Everyone flocks to them. There is great power in tapping into the fantasies of the masses.
I think one of the reasons ’embellishing’ stories is so effective is that mass media has delivered fantasy so effectively and for so long that the fantasy is the expectation. So mundane, mediocre experience is incapable of holding what’s left of our limited attention spans (particularly women’s).
When I was 26 I had a workout partner named Dean. Dean was drop dead gorgeous, unbelievably cut and women would flock to the guy regularly. Dean was also a male stripper at one of the strip clubs that had a male revue night once a month. The guy made money hand over fist and was always a crowd favorite. One thing he always said about the most successful male strippers was that they were almost universally the ones who sold a story to the women in the audience as part of their act. Dean used to do a Fireman skit that would drive these women (young and old) into a frenzy. Another guy would do the hot executive fantasy in an Armani suit and give away flowers to the ladies, classy, but building up to him stripping down to a thong. The guys without an act never made as much in tips. It wasn’t as satisfying for the women as the fantasy aspect that Dean and a few others would sell. Women get off differently than men. For a guy, a hot stripper in nothing but a g-string grinding out a lap dance is enough to get him aroused. Women need that ungratified fantasy to get them aroused.
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I thought the first version was funnier, so I liked it more.
But I’m not a chick, so I guess this proves the instructional value of Roissy.
One thing I noticed is that the gussied up version doesn’t push it all that far. In fact, it’s kind of a safe, made for girls version — perfectly calibrated for the young, insulated American girl. Well done.
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A weekend at a Club Med is not exactly James Bond territory, no matter how skilfully dressed up. It’s preferably to actually *be* an IMM type than to fake being one. Those three buttons to press are good – another related one might be risk-seeking for its own sake (sky diving, mountain climbing, extreme sports, etc.). Women dig that, even when the risks are foolish with no reward, because risk-seeking behaviors are associated with high-T. Even a cubicle jockey can take some of these activities up and have some true life experiences to relate which will have the same effect. Of course, you have to like taking stupid risks. But I should talk…
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Story runs too long if you ask me, and the soul stone thing is pretty cheesy, would be hard to keep a straight face…
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You only grabbed one girl’s hand, thus leaving the other white woman to be raped and/or killed by black drug runners. Nice going. If you told that story in front of a female Larry Auster she’d snap your neck.
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“Story runs too long if you ask me, and the soul stone thing is pretty cheesy, would be hard to keep a straight face…”
Yes. However, you can chop it into chapter, and deliver
a chapter now and then. It also reduces the risk
of being caught repeating yourself.
The “soul stone” is tricky. Some girls, particularly
the really young ones, will LOVE this shit,
many will write it off as flaky. But if told
with the utmost sincerity (faked of course)
and a deep voice many will give you a pass
because of great execution, even if they
don’t believe it. Doublethink and the WISH to
believe! At least they will believe that
YOU believe it, and that it happened
as you described it. You might not qualify
as James Bond, but as a deep guru (in training).
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Betamax
I think that the key to the soul stone thing is that it only works if you’ve already reeled a girl in. It’s that final little touch, very tongue in cheek, holding forth just a very slight possibility that it might be genuine. A woman doesn’t have to believe it to find it attractive. There’s an argument that Game often works because, and not in spite of, women knowing they are being gamed. After all, Game allows women to be the centre of attention. Also, women like to be amused & it is amusing.
That said, a master lightness of touch is required to stop the soul stone reference sinking into dreaded cheese territory. Novices might be better to stop short at this point.
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Whiskey wrote:
“The danger with these is that you can get caught repeating them. John Edwards sold the same story to Kerry twice about his dead son, almost got dumped from the ticket over it.”
Interested in reading more about this. Do you have the source article handy? Thanks.
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http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2010/02/16/the-case-for-an-older-woman/
Ok cupid takes on women, dating and age.
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Oh, dude, a narrative.
The importance of narrative is something I think a lot of PUAs seem to overlook. But honestly I think it’s one of, if not the, primal aspects of female sexuality. Consider romance novels, which are basically girlporn, and involve a large buildup before the first sex scene. Or girls who learn every detail about their favorite celebrity, where a guy would just jerk off and go to bed.
Best example: fanfiction, which is basically amateur internet porn for girls, and therefore invaluable for studying female fantasies. The most unashamedly porny fanfics have character development and plot to a level unimaginable for guyporn. And there are many novellength ones that often take till halfway through for the first sex scene.
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Travel around a bit and you’re bound to pick up a few good stories. A guy like Roosh probably has unlimited “cool guy” adventure stories.
My favorite line from the past week after discussing some of the countries I’ve been to.
“OMG, you’re so wordly, I feel so boring now.”
This from a very smart girl. It kind of turned me off.
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they call it:
The Case For An Older Woman
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Ozymandias wrote
The importance of narrative is something I think a lot of PUAs seem to overlook… Best example: fanfiction, which is basically amateur internet porn for girls, and therefore invaluable for studying female fantasies
This is very true.
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Game in BK
I looked at the OK Cupid site.
It is not even wrong.
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It’s better just to tell a dull story well. If the first version were told better, there would be no need to lie at all. No one likes a braggart, and the second version is unbelievable. Reminds me of xplat’s delusions/stories.
truth: I live in a third world country where ugly, dirt poor chinks suck my dick because i’m white and that’s what poor chinks do.
xsplat version: I’m a sex monster. Girls get addicted to my dick.
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God damn if that OK Cupid post wasn’t blatant propaganda
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Did Tucker Max give you permission to expose his technique for storytelling like this?
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yeah because Tucker Max was the first person to exaggerate.
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“If you told that story in front of a female Larry Auster she’d snap your neck.”
lol
Do females even get as crazy as Auster?
*remembers LR*
Wait…take that back.
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Vincent:
You’re living all these stories and in the back of your mind you know it’s going to get girls back home into you, but after getting with foreign girls (better quality), you go home and realize you don’t want those girls anymore.
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@Dylan: You’re quite right. Storytelling ability and a boring story beats an interesting story and a bore every time. If nothing else, an interesting lie can lead to huge amounts of negative social proof if someone asks you to prove it– don’t claim to be a kung-fu black belt if you can’t take a punch! The best thing, of course, is to have storytelling ability and great stories, but if you had that you wouldn’t be a beta and wouldn’t be hanging out at roissy’s.
@GAME_IN_BK: Interesting article. I do think that most of the people on this site tend to overemphasize the degradation older women experience. Certainly your average beta* should try to lock in an attractive, high-sex-drive, easy-to-get-along-with, intelligent thirtysomething.
*In the sense of “wants a long-term monogamous relationship,” not in the sense of “unattractive to women.”
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(yawn)
Is this a joke? If this is for real
A) Lying is not game. Lying shows you haver NO GAME WHATSOEVER!
B) Lots of betas are getting laid by learning from wannabe alpha hood rats.This is really troubling…
C)I have enough self respect not to date chicks that would not fall for this crap or….
D) I am a naturalist and don’t need game.
To all you ghetto alphas and betas with guitars and drugs out there, I’m laughing at your “superior intelligence”.
Natural game is thus:
Get a real job
Get a real car
Get money
Get a hobby
Get out and socialise and be a lone wolf.
Roissey, I lost a modicum of respect for you on this post.lol.
Game/PUA artists are a sad joke. A real alpha is sitting at home eating dinner with his wife and kids.
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Roissey, I lost a modicum of respect for you on this post.lol.
i’ve been doing this blog for three years and THIS is the post that drove you over the edge?
you haters are just phoning it in now.
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@Dylan,
“truth: I live in a third world country where ugly, dirt poor chinks suck my dick because i’m white and that’s what poor chinks do.
xsplat version: I’m a sex monster. Girls get addicted to my dick.”
The best liars are those who have convinced themselves first. In a place like indo, cash is king .. no game needed. I also think that skinny asian chicks have the least T of all. They are least susceptible to gaming and are much more susceptible to bling than any other race.
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“i’ve been doing this blog for three years and THIS is the post that drove you over the edge?
you haters are just phoning it in now.”
Dude, fucking a chick that buys this story is like fucking a chimp because it turns you on. There really is a inter-species barrier when a human being falls for your story. Really.
[editor: really really? i’ve told the soulstone bit to three lawyers, a doctor, a nurse practitioner, a teacher, and a bartender, among others. all of them attractive women. and they all loved it. try expanding your horizons, champ.]
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I think this strategy is a reasonable one, although I don’t doubt there will be some hilarious misfires as people try to master it. I can just imagine it. I do hope there will be field reports, *they* will make for good stories.
But I think there is a larger insight to be grasped here. What makes an anecdote interesting is not entirely the plot, but the effect it has on the teller. A good story-teller will always be just the tinniest bit self-fascinated. If your story is not a memory (or in this case a calculated fabrication) you would spend time recalling at length purely for your own private entertainment, don’t foist it on someone else, because it won’t entertain them either.
[editor: in my experience, this contention is demonstrably false. all aspects of seduction can be faked. it takes skill, but it can be done.]
Whatever his motive, a story-teller wants to share his experience with you, to let you see what he saw, feel what he felt. He does this by reliving it it for you, and if you are willing and he is able, he takes you with him. This requires a certain amount of empathy and imagination on the listener’s part, of course. But if a person lacks these qualities, what fun are they anyway?
It’s the teller’s emotional truth in the story that makes it live, and his enthusiasm for his subject that makes it interesting. Case and point. The twirling girl number close was a captivating story, expertly told. “Too short!” I wanted to shout at the end. His subject transported him, and he was skilled enough to take us back with him. It was as if I could smell her.
But this other business, both versions, a dreadful disappointment. The version that was true was a recitation of events, not a story at all. The version that was fabricated had no emotional truth to animate it, and there was no enthusiasm to infect us and draw us along. What was meant to be shared? Nothing was meant to be shared, because there was nothing to be shared.
If you would entertain your audience, either with lies or with truth, make sure your story entertains you. If it does, your eyes will sparkle with humor, your face will be lit with remembered excitement, and your audience will want to suck every last drop of life out of you.
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Roissy, I have not been here for three years nor am I ‘over the edge’, nor do I have a vagina. lol.
Don’t be so sensitive [/lisp].
[editor: you do that lisp well. got something you want to tell us?]
I like this blog, as I get to see a lot of different perspectives (even if they are shockingly politically correct) whilst learning how people are using so called “game” to get laid.
The only problem is you seem to be concentrating on short term goals.
[this is the kind of ignorance that i have answered so many times already that i’m tempted to just wave it off with a snarky comment. game is invaluable for short as well as long term relationships. game is a tool. how you use it is your choice, whether you want a one night stand or a wife. but never forget that game — otherwise known as seduction — is essential for attracting women and keeping them attracted. you must seduce a woman first before you can fall to one knee and propose.]
What is the line from Animal House?
“Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son”.
[“celibate, uptight, and beta is no way to go through life son.” revision 1a]
I understand that you live in a silly town that is devoid of morals, however, again, teaching game seems to be going from amoral to immoral in its inability to follow basic logic, much less decency and respect….
If you tell a lie, and you get caught by the lieee, do you have the self respect to go on with a woman who knows you are lying and still wants you? Or have you pumped and dumped her (using the lingo of the parlance of our times….) or are you not thinking of having a future wife???
I am so lucky I never bought into this thing called game and a really good thing that I am looking for love instead of banging all the skank ho’es I can get.
Trust me bro, I have “not really looking” game and it seems to be getting me noticed by more women then I have ever wanted who want to be pumped and dumped. alas, after seeing the countless (and there are a lot of them) women who have messed up heads from being gamed by dick head betas and alpha hood rats, picking up the pieces, watching them lead lives of silent desperation and pushing the abuse out of their psyche’s whilst filling their time buying worthless shit from china, I must say, the PUA route is a dead end for everyone.
Sick of seeing messed up women bro. You may not see it, but 10-20 years down the road you will look back on all that you have done, and karma will rear it’s ugly head and destroy all your cherished belief’s.
You either have natural game or you don’t. You cannot fake it and faking it is messing with womens heads. Geeze, how many times do I have to keep saying the same thing?
*Yeah, I phone it in cause sometimes I don’t feel like getting up to get on the computer. Sue me.
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Unlearned genus: women sleep with entertaining men. Part of being entertaining is telling stories. Personally, I prefer off color and funny ones to ones which involve knife fights and soul stones, and I never vacation in the tropics, but I’m willing to bet a lot of women find that sort of thing edifying.
Seriously, what’s your problem anyway? Did Roissy wipe his dong on your high threadcount sheets or something?
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or you could just be an interesting dude for real and not lie.
[editor: this is like saying “or you could just be a naturally beautiful chick for real and not wear makeup and pushup bras”. anyhow, why spend all that time and effort building an interesting life when game gives a man a shortcut to sex? now a man might want to have an interesting life for his own enjoyment, but the ability to access pussy does not need to be one of those reasons. not anymore.]
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Larry Auster published a comment from me last month. I’m trying to figure out how I can spin this story to show a pre-selection from women. (perhaps a hat tip from The Thinking Housewife?)
On a more serious note, I’ve been impulsively mentioning that I used to sell drugs when it is benign. I haven’t really developed this into a value-adding story, rather just contrasting my frame a bit. Like if I accidentally mention something boring like Greek debt, I flip that into how it reminds me of a quirky Greek customer.
I can tell some good true stories, but I will be making a note to fib in any missing elements of “pre-selection by women, leader of men, and protector of loved ones”, you know, just to see how that goes. Mystery Method kick-started this thing for me a few years ago, and there’s no excuse not to revisit the basics every so often.
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http://img442.imageshack.us/i/tombstonec.jpg/
[editor: it says “petty lies”! which could work, too.]
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Ha haha ha. Of course, I’m one of those bitter American girls who lived in several poor Asian countries; totally jaded about the fly boys who do so well with the ladies over there.
And, jeez, who can argue that an entertaining storyteller isn’t immediately interesting?
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“[editor: really really? i’ve told the soulstone bit to three lawyers, a doctor, a nurse practitioner, a teacher, and a bartender, among others. all of them attractive women. and they all loved it. try expanding your horizons, champ.] ”
correlation roissy is not causation. Perhaps they were attracted for factors wholly unrelated to your story. perhaps you signal verbal intelligence when you can fluidly narrate tales. Some women i agree are very quickly drawn to me when i switch into the shoot the breeze regale with tales of travel mode.
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Intentional!
Not hating on you man – do get the point regarding the need to augment.
(I’m just learning about the game &) it seems that Plastic Surgery is a good metaphor for a substantial (if not the fundamental) subset of the game.
And we know why women do CS, and yes, it is a socially acceptable artifice.
But do we agree one should not go overboard with CS?
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You sound like a good storyteller from your post. But I would delete the part about the knife being held to your throat: it sounds fake and unconvincing. (What happened to the other girl? how could you distract a dangerous criminal with such a hackneyed trick? the police were really that blase about rich white tourists being held up with knives in a place with an economy completely dependent on tourism? etc.)
Something very similar really did happen to me on vacation in Vietnam (guy with a 9 inch knife chased me and my husband down the street after an attempted scam went wrong), so maybe I am less convinced. Maybe you should go to Vietnam for your next vacation and get better material.
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@Lupo,
“Seriously, what’s your problem anyway? Did Roissy wipe his dong on your high threadcount sheets or something? ”
No he did not. Rest assured Lupo, You are the only one who has had that privilege. I am just hoping you will sell that particular high threadcount sheet on ebay someday.
And what is with this tribe loyalty signaling crap?. Roissy can respond just fine to posts if he cares to.
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“[editor: this is like saying “or you could just be a naturally beautiful chick for real and not wear makeup and pushup bras”. anyhow, why spend all that time and effort building an interesting life when game gives a man a shortcut to sex? now a man might want to have an interesting life for his own enjoyment, but the ability to access pussy does not need to be one of those reasons. not anymore.]”
–depends on the girl. Sorry to hear you’ve had push up bras leave your hands less full after they come off, bummer. I’m not trying to be an ass, but I don’t buy that a guy can’t tell a girl is not naturally pretty under whatever make-up she may be wearing. If she wears a ton, she’s most likely somewhat unattractive under all of it or rather plain featured. Shiny hair, glowing skin and a body that looks good naked can ALL be detected by the eye. A person’s quality of character cannot be detected as easily, so it is more of a lie to lie. False advertisement with clothes, make-up, and accessories are on different level of lying than made up stories. The trick would be to learn how to tell your stories interestingly or stop living the life of a square and actually BE interesting. Then you become a natural. And as we all know, naturals are the best.
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Going thru a real life adventure that provides you with entertaining and potentially gina-tingling stories to tell is, by itself, of little use in closing the vag-deal. One must know precisely what about the stories are gina-tingling. Because the inevitable editting process matters-a lot..
2/3rds of all art-work is figuring what to leave in and what to leave out. Same with cooking or wine making.
There is nothing wrong with trying to be completely honest. But one must still edit the final product. That is just the way it is.
So, the question is; do you edit it in a way that quenches her vaginal fires or in a way that inspires her to toss her hair and moisten her lips?
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Funny Roissy, I know alpha males from all walks of life, married with grandkids, and I get along with them and can have a conversation with them without them having a hissy fit and projecting them self on me.
[editor: spungen is that you?]
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anoukange shouldn’t you be somewhere in south america having sex with roosh on a bus instead of posting here?
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reality check–
and why should I be doing that? already done, check.
Is this not a blog that discusses male/female dynamics?
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I didn’t truly realize the gravity of DHV storytelling until I managed to inadvertently end up with several dudes g/f’s panting at my feet (with the b/f standing right next to them) while telling storeies of my awesome travels to Amsterdam (especially if she’s ok with prostitution and soft drugs) and other places. Another one that gets attention is being ambiguous about your occupation. When they ask, tell them “It’s kind of hard to explain”. They will hound you for an hour, and the less you give the more you will get.
This post reminds me of the trailer park scene in Swingers when Trent is telling his acting story. Shit, I had a tear in my eye at the end. That’s how it’s done fellas. Watch the movie and learn from Trent.
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[editor: in my experience, this contention is demonstrably false. all aspects of seduction can be faked. it takes skill, but it can be done.]
I’m sure you must be right then, empiricism and all that. But this story bores you too, yes?
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Anoukange,
and why should I be doing that? already done, check.
So tell us what story Roosh used on you. This will help advance our education so that we can go do the same to other chicks.
Did he say that he was born on the day of the Iranian Revolution or something? Or that he was a refuge from Saddam’s Mustard Gas attacks?
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UG: “And what is with this tribe loyalty signaling crap?”
It’s hardly tribal loyalty to notice that you’re an offensive shit stain, but I guess I wouldn’t expect you to understand that. Seriously, “dude” -are you one of Roissy’s former sperm spittoons?
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“I’m not trying to be an ass, but I don’t buy that a guy can’t tell a girl is not naturally pretty under whatever make-up she may be wearing.”
You’d be surprised. Worst case of this, ever: I finally got around to pantsing a girl I had noticed in the gothic nightclubs for, like, years. Stylish dress, model hot up close and personal, poised, funny; maybe a bit older than I woulda liked: 28 or 30 or so. When I got her nekkid, she was wearing a push up … and worse, a sort of foundational garment from the 1940s … I don’t know what you call it, maybe a girdle or something. By the time I got all the layers off, she looked sorta like a sad and deflated sausage in the bed. Even with the pre-nekkid groping and snogging, I was expecting a hard body. I was well and truly bummed. Fortunately, I was deathly allergic to her cat, so I managed to escape.
Now a days goth chicks have dropped the pretense (to say nothing of the heavy amphetamine usage which kept them slim) and just squeeze their billowing flab into these things called “corsets,” which make them look like obie dolls, so I avoid these places all together.
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http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2010/03/232-compton-cookouts.html
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Thanks Roissy for posting this.
It was needed after that flame war I had to withstand on Friday on the now-deleted thread where there were about 6 guys similar to Dylan and Andrew hounding me because I said a wingman had, without my permission, used the word “millionaire” to describe me to a 19 year old who then enthusiastically gave me a date (and spent the date with her eyes as big as saucers as I rested my hand on her upper thigh).
Roissy recently had an entire post on how the most Beta Comment ever made on this blog was a guy saying he would never lie to get sex…even if it is a white lie and one wouldn’t have gotten the woman without it. Dylan and Andrew and Unlearned Genius and @Chuck and even @PlanetGrok might have had a point to say that lying is weak game if you can still get laid with a specific 9 or 10 without the lie, but if any of these guys is saying that they would SACRIFICE sex in order to “always tell the truth”, and let me or another guy get the girl, there is almost no attitude more beta (the most beta attitude of all, IMHO, is a man saying an 18 year old is “too young’).
I will throw the Dylans and Andrews (and @Chuck’s) of the world a bone in that a fun variant of the above might be in telling the woman BOTH VERSIONS of the above story and asking her what she believes. Self deprecation, done properly, can build a man way up in a woman’s eyes.
But Roissy hits the nail on the head that, especially the youngest and most beautiful adult women want you to be their fantasy and they often want you to lie (if you are 44 and look 32 and you are at Spring Break with a bunch of 19 year olds, you would be beta not to understand that the drunk women around you WANT you to say you are as old as you look).
While I am not saying that it is good policy for a man to tell or imply a lie that he cannot back up (you better have a great apartment if you imply you are rich), it is a US feminist concept that a woman should reject a man after finding out, long after the fact, that he lied to seduce her and make her fall in love.
Most non-American women don’t understand the concept of rejecting a man for having successfully lied.
The more one travels, the more true it actually becomes that the storyteller really is an IMM.
An American overseas can be seen as a rich American who might be part of the next Google. Dylan – Racist White Nationalist guys make themselves into pussy-whipped feminist waterboys when they prop up the artificially high value of American women by degrading Slavic or Asian women. Saying foreign women “sell themselves” like prostitutes helps prop up the artificially high sexual market value of American women and is the #1 priority of US feminists.
When an American man comes back from overseas and has any kind of storytelling ability at all, American women will always choose him over another male all other things being equal. American women love Indiana Jones and James Bond. If the man has done well with gorgeous French or Russian women, the American women feel the confidence and like him all the more (except for the rabid feminists over 24 who will feel threatened and refuse to accept the idea that the man might think of them as having a reduced sexual market value because he has seen the competition).
Be careful not to say you “speak” a language if it is possible that an American brat speaks it much better than you do. I used to say I speak 5 languages but an American college student humiliated me once when I said French was one of them. I thought I was good at French but she was much, much better. Now I more honestly say I speak 4. I hadn’t thought I was fibbing but I learned a lesson.
Keep in mind that American women, because they’ve been given an artificiall high sexual market value, are far more likely to ever reject a man for having told a fib, but even then I’ve only ever been rejected by an American woman 2 times in my life for “lying” in a seduction attempt. If a relationship is going to end, even in the USA the reason will rarely be because a woman uncovered a lie you used to seduce her early on. Overseas, it is almost unheard of that a woman would ever reject a man because something he said to seduce her wasn’t entirely true. One gf, upon finding my passport and seeing that I was 10 years older than I had said I was, burst out laughing for about 15 seconds before I told her to “cook up dinner while I take a shower”. It had zero effect that I was caught in a lie.
Note that the young American overseas doesn’t ever really have to lie. All he has to do is to NEVER tell a foreign 9 or 10 that he is ‘waiting for my paycheck to clear” or that he has a credit card to pay down.
Joining the military to see the world is one of the smartest things you can do. While you must NEVER lie about actual combat experience (just having been a US serviceman who traveled takes you out of beta territory with most women), women get major gina tingles when they ask you that you did exactly and you say with a smirk “I can tell you but then I’d have to kill you”.
That last line gets a laugh 100% of the time and, if you deliver it with the proper degree of menace and smile, you can hear the tingle. Don’t try to say “That is the oldest line in the book” because that only underscores that this line is a perennial winner (I bet Roman veterans were telling maidens 2000 years ago “I can tell you what I did when I was stationed in Thrace but then I’d have to kill you.”
In the military, do not accept a stateside assignment no matter what and/or fly Space A often to rack up the travel experience.
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Andrew:
Sick of seeing men take 100% of the blame for the conscious, deliberate life choices of “messed up women”, bro.
—
Black Flag:
Great post.
It’s like this: storytelling is just like sex: if you’re desperately trying to please the other person, it ain’t gonna work.
If you’re really into it, your eyes are on fire, and your attitude is that the other person should be grateful just for being lucky enough to be the recipient of your awesomeness, that’s success.
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Oh, and, I’m gonna drop one more secret of storytelling on your Beaker** asses.
The best way to completely knock the air out of a story that’s going well is to react too much to your audience when they react.
Let’s say you drop some funny shit, and they’re laughing. There are only two acceptable options at this point:
(1) Just keep talking. If you’re seriously into the story, and you’re mid-story, this should be de rigueur anyway – you should feel “mental blue balls” if you stop talking.
(2) Pause for a BRIEF moment, and scowl at them as if you’re disappointed at them for laughing. Then start talking again.
Don’t break the frame.
Watch some good stand-up comics whose style matches yours. Notice how, regardless of style, they (a) don’t shut up, and (b) NEVER mirror their audience.
Yes, mirroring is a PUA technique, but storytelling is absolutely not the time for it. When you’re the storyteller, you’re not building rapport; you’re dropping DHV’s. You should maintain the same iron curtain of distance as would a teacher with his crushing, horny female students.
—
**I actually have no idea what this means. Go ask Obsidian.
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i found all three of Mystery’s elements in here
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Telling exarated or falsified stories is a niche marketting technique; it has to fit your overall style. It’s not for everyone.
It’s not a mere matter of feeling bad about fibbing. If your whole shtick is about integrity, go with that. Integrity doesn’t equal bland boredom. It can be a hook in and of itself. You don’t need jazz hands to capture peoples attention and imagination. The craft of non-fiction story telling is equally as engaging as fantasy. To some people more so.
The rake who tells tall tells is entertaining. So is a dancing monkey. Neither are taken much seriously and are easy to pass over.
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I briefly checked out the OKCupid study and it’s about what I would expect. Realistically, though, do most young, attractive people (male & female) really need to do online dating to meet someone?
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Also, I’ve run story telling game with pure fiction, marketed as fiction. Story telling is a fun past time, and can be riddled through with all the favorite themes and triggers. It’s also a great way to unleash the inner selves as they explore finding character as the plot develops.
I’ve used stories as seduction, but also fun was long term relationship bed time stories.
I’ve never noticed nor has it occured to me to even give it a glance of thought that real stories would come off more intriguing with embelleshment. People barely believe my life as it is.
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Online dating is great. It’s like ordering takeout, only with pictures.
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Here is the classic Roissy post that says the most beta thing a man can say on this blog is that he would never lie for sex:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/the-most-beta-comment-ever-left-on-this-blog/
Meanwhile, @Dylan does my Republican Party a disservice with the anti-foreigner attitude. That helped McCain/Palin lose, especially their desire to color Russia (and not terrorists) as the main enemy.
@Dylan’s attitude, manifested in real life, would also hurt him with US women short term and long term in 2 ways:
1) Viciously degrading the Asian woman who just died who was living with Xsplat (my condolences @xsplat) – shows a lack of character that would get a man ostracized among women if it manifested itself in real life; and I can assume that this attitude would manifest itself on a date with, say a Republican woman, in which case it would backfire.
2) The attitude that Asian, Nordic and Slavic women are not as good as American hybrids (or mutts) shows support for the primary falsehood that the Roissy blog combats, which is Pretty Lies that Artificially Elevate the Sexual Market Value of American women and BY DEFAULT artificially lower the sexual market value of American men.
Think about it @Dylan – Why project to all the US women you want to date that you have nowhere else to go? That defies Economics 101. Why feed their egos by feeding the pretty lie that Slavic women are supposed to be low-grade prostitutes when they are actually the cream of the genetic crop? That is like burning down 10 silos and then expecting to be able to buy corn at a decent price from the owner of the 11th silo.
@Epoxy: How did you suddenly get converted on the fibbing issue? Half the crowd on the now-deleted Core Principles thread had to side with me when you got all over my ass because a limo driver, without my permission, told a woman I was rich (which wasn’t much of a lie).
Now that Roissy decided he needed to remind everyone where lying stands as an alpha tool, you’re suddenly on the right side.
Better late than never is all I can say.
———————————–
Anyway, one of the ways one can tell that the Anti-Lying Brigade does not consist of men who have been having MLTRs and multiple simultaneous short term relationships is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to juggle relationships with multiple women without lying, and doing so sociopathically.
You have to be able to look a woman in the face and say “I’m working late tonight sweet cheeks” and not feel the slightest pang of guilt or worry that you might get caught.
Plus, anyone who has been in MLTRs with MSTRs mixed in, knows that getting caught in such routine and necessary lies tends to be more serious than a woman finding out you lied about your age or wealth or what have you (at least overseas where women tend to have different values).
Two weeks ago, I sent a text to a woman with the wrong name in the greeting. That was far worse than being caught not really being 35 and most women would be angrier about catching you with another woman than to learn that you only have $500K in the bank rather than $1M.
But married guys and inexperienced guys struggling to get even one woman in bed may not simply understand that advanced game differs from weak game when a man knows exactly when and how he has to lie to make sure he gets what he wants and SHE gets the fantasy she needs. It isn’t strong game to get a 9 without lying when when you could have gotten the 10 next to her by lying.
Roissy wrote in 2008:
Not Lying for Sex > Lying for Sex > Not Lying for No Sex
One of the worst things you can do is go home alone because you told the ENTIRE truth.
There is a fine line between being the used car salesman on True Lies and the husband on True Lies, both of whom were lying like crazy while making the female character wet.
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I’m reminded of seeing Allen Ginsberg recite spontaneous poetry in front of a large group of Trungpa Rinpoche’s Sangha. Trungpa liked to play the game of putting his students on the spot and force their muse. Amazing things often happened. Allen did amaze, and showed us just how amazing the spontaneous muse can be.
Cultivating the muse is a skill greater still than canned speeches. Canned speeches are like canned peaches. Good to have on hand, but nothing approaching an assortment of fresh produce freshly prepared.
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xsplat–
jazz hands……ha….ha…ha….. too funny. I would kill to see me some jazz hands used by a straight dude.
p.s. Allen was one of the best, Dylan was also right there with him. Rapid fire, off the cuff skills. word.
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Correction: a good fibber actually is concerned that he does not get caught. I’ve noticed that the kind of lie that matters to a woman the most is the small lie about where you were tonight when you said you were working late, not the big lie you told her to fulfill her fantasies when you met and she got wet (and which she may have suspected all along was an exaggeration). You want to cover your bases, such as making sure she has no right to call your place of work on a landline, etc (your project is in a different building, right?).
A good film to see on this subject is called “The Secret” which is about the Law of Attraction that says if you will something to be true, it will become true. You have to assume that you will be (and deserve to be and practically are) with a 10 and rich and happy and healthy; and you will be surprised what you get.
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[…] by Roissy’s last post, I decided to write up my Prague experience. This story would of course have to be modified for […]
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@ Jack: That’s back-asswards, IMHO. If you tell a woman that you’re a secret agent man and actually you sell insurance, that will ruin it double-quick when she finds out (and she will, especially if you are running your lies around the DC region, where actual IMMs gather; they usually pretend to work ‘for the State Department’ or ‘in international consulting’ at first, FYI). Women are very forgiving, particularly if you fuck them right (see my earlier posts), but not if the essence of who you are is fiction.
[editor: just for argument’s sake, how are they going to find out? how would actual IMMs find out? let’s say you tell a woman that you can’t talk about your job because it’s “classified government work of a defense nature”. then you go on a few dates and bang her. is an IMM going to show up at your door and ask you a series of penetrating questions about your “service”? come on, dude, get real.]
They can be quite forgiving about ‘small’ lies, ie who you were fucking — whoops, I mean where you actually were — last night.
If you are a Top Alpha you can get away with a ton of BS, but what you cannot get away with is pretending to be a Top Alpha stud when you’re not. Woman will spot it, get to the truth, and savage you.
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“Because then it’d be obvious you were lying.”
It’s already obvious, retard.
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GdI: You are reframing to the idea that fibbing means being like the used car salesman in True Lies rather than being like the husband in True Lies who, in real life, would have a few Georgetown students on the side. Remember, the husband was lying as well and, in real life, it would have been quite elaborate as he managed a MLTR and some MSTRs.
Plus, the used car salesman in True Lies was doing well for himself. His character was written to be funny and over the top. In real life, if he scored a 10 while you remained married to an 8 who is gaining weight, I would declare him the winner. 😉
To the Georgetown students he’d be sleeping with in real life, if the True Lies husband was in the CIA (not a higher status profession than simply having a great position in business), he would still have to fib about being something else other than a “secret agent man”.
The CIA agent has to lie about being a successful businessman when he is really making $4K per month.
In fact, Roissy didn’t mean IMM to mean admitting to be some kind of “secret agent man.”
An IMM is simply someone who has a lot of stories to tell and a large network of interesting contacts – that makes a woman feel, with good reason, that her life would involve a lot of pleasant surprises and surprise weekends in exotic places if she dated him. Being an IMM gets more true as one travels more and grows older.
It becomes reality because the man willed it that way. Women like guys who will themselves into being what the women fantasize about.
In Russia, the LAST THING you want is to give anyone the idea that you might be an actual spy. It would NOT be worth it to lose your visa over something so stupid.
So please erase “secret agent man” from the frame.
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I think ideally it would be good to have some interesting real life stories and be able to tell them in a skilled and entertaining way. Slight embellishment would be okay.
Consider the audience also. I’ve told people stories I thought were entertaining and didn’t seem to get much of a reaction out of them.
Being able to tell a story to children is a wonderful skill to have. They make a good audience.
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[If you are a Top Alpha you can get away with a ton of BS, but what you cannot get away with is pretending to be a Top Alpha stud when you’re not]
That is obvious but not because the woman is going to Google you the next day but rather because men who are successful with women have usually made themselves successful enough careerwise beforehand so their basic alpha cred is solid on that score.
Roissy didn’t mean IMM to mean “secret agent man” and behaving like the car salesman in True Lies (even though that guy wasn’t doing too badly – he was still a cartoon character).
By the way, being in the feminist-run CIA is no longer considered to be a Top Alpha position. In much of the world, the last thing you want to do is imply you are an American spy, if you want your visa to be renewed.
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In the Ian Fleming books, James Bond often had to pretend he was a milloinaire when he was really making a middle-grade salary as a British government employee.
James Bond was always faking his wealth as a result. It was second nature to him.
But that was just a prop. He was getting the women because of his appearance and charm and brains, etc.
He got the women, which is what makes a man alpha. Being adored by the men who wouldn’t lie for sex would have been the last thing on Bond’s mind – especially if he were on an Internet forum 50 years ago watching teenagers nitpick about whether his attitude would ever work. The National Geographic definition of alpha, the male who is admired by other males, isn’t as good as the Roissy definition.
Now take an American man with a decent Internet income who sells his house for $200,000 and then travels the world looking for adventure, sometimes coming back to the USA to pick up American women in resorts like Key West and Hilton Head. He is not technically a millionaire nor is he a “secret agent man” and he certainly doesn’t have to imply that he is either – but the last thing he is going to do if he wants 10s instead of 8s is fail to tell a good story.
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@ Jack: Your knowledge of secret agentry sounds pretty theoretical, old boy. The operational side of CIA still has plenty of boys and their toys. The analysis side has always been a tit farm.
Never behaved like a car salesman, FYI – not my kind of cover. 🙂
Note to all would-be IMMs: misrepresenting yourself as a USG prepresentative, particularly feigning a connection to certain three-letter Agencies, can be a federal crime. Things much worse than BPD-chick attacks can happen to you.
Real IMMs of the SAM variety are vag-candy not because they advertise it, but because they NEVER do. Hence the alluring and impenetrable mystery.
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I’m rather surprised you could hold the attention of any American female under the age of 30 long enough to tell that whole story. Presuming the context of a bar or nightclub, in fact, I just cannot see how it would be possible. Too much noise, too many distractions and if she is traveling with the typical gaggle of co-workers, former sorority sisters or what not, far too many interruptions. And, of course, that gaggle honking along in her wake is almost guaranteed.
I suppose it might work on a dinner date, but even there you can’t realistically expect a female to stay quiet for that length of time. At a minimum I’d expect an interruption every, oh, 30 words or so. And each interruption to last from a few seconds to a minute or two. Meaning by the time you get to the end of the story she’ll likely have forgotten the beginning, possibly have tripped you up in your narrative and perhaps even bored herself.
But more power to you if you can get it to work. And in a curious way, this actually gives me a shred of hope for the current crop of American females age 20 to 30. My — admittedly limited — experience with them as group had assigned them en masse an attention span somewhere between that of a ferret and a cocker spaniel puppy. Which clearly cannot be the case for this to be a winning strategy. So I defer to your expertise and revise my opinion.
[editor: the full story was for illustrative purposes only. in a bar environment, i would normally consolidate the story into something much more succinct, or use fragments of the story at different times.]
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Jack,
What’s so bad about being married to an 8? My husband told me I’m a 6.
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GdI: I hope real CIA agents, if they are real men, are undermining any attempts to spread feminism including hampering Americans in meeting foreign women online (the IMBRA law is not being complied with but its implication that the US government has power over meeting women in foreign countries is unacceptable) and getting all countries, that accept US aid money, to ban prostitution as “human trafficking” including having girly men US ambassadors show up at foreign feminist luncheons to beg them to get laws passed in their countries to arrest US males if they ever buy sex (Hillary and Condi want this).
I assume you mean that there are still some manly CIA agents involved in the WOT because there are obviously no real men left in Hillary or Condi’s State Department for the above reasons and more. I know Men’s Rights Advocates occupying US government positions and they openly admit that their manhood has been cut off by the feminists – they won’t rock the boat because they want their pensions.
I actually know more detail on the above if you want to hear it.
I figure Roissy’s use of IMM seemed to infringe on your specific territory because you saw it narrowly as meaning one could pretend he worked for the US government when he did not. Women don’t necessarily cream for US government agents more than the real successful businessmen the agents might pretend to be.
But this “invasion of territory that I really occupy” is a a common reason why so many men get upset over the issue of fibbing in general.
First on the narrow concept of pretending to be a “spy” which is NOT what Roissy was really trying to say by being a man of mystery: As I have noted, in most countries it is highly negative to imply one works for the CIA even if the CIA has a great reputation. It could cost a man his visa and EVERYONE knows that a real “secret agent” would be convincingly passing himself off as a successful busnessman anyway. The same is more or less true in the USA. Impersonating a war hero is a serious crime and should be.
The real businessmen should be the ones upset that agents are lying about being what they, the businessmen, really are. 😉
True Lies” was a comedy of course. The theme of that film was not that you needed to be a real spy in order to get the woman, nor was the theme of the movie “honesty is the best policy”. In fact, the theme of the movie was that a man should give a woman the fantasy that she secretly craves. The theme was that the car salesman will get the woman if you aren’t aware of her need for fantasy fulfillment.
Regarding men getting upset if other men lie about being something that they, themselves, really are: this can be a problem in other areas too:
If a man is really 29 and sees a ton of thirty-something men on the beach getting the 9s and 10s PARTLY by saying they are also 29, he deserves to get his butt kicked if he tries to compete by exposing their fibs.
I know that can be frustrating. I long ago cockblocked a married colleague who was about to score a 10 because I really was single and I didn’t think it was fair that he was getting away with pretending to be single (he never find out)
But that was petty and I regret doing that. He deserved that 10.
As Roissy just wrote, a real State Department official would probably just have to suck eggs if some guy near him in a bar happened to be in the mood one evening and say to a 10 – on a whim – that he “had a job he could not talk about” and start dancing with the 10 who, it is assumed, likes the guy and his panache. What is the State Department guy going to do? Arrest him for saying he can’t talk about what he does? Or try to cockblock him with questions designed to trip him up? That might look petty, especially to the woman, and it is likely not to work.
And a good alpha would make sure every woman in the room knew that the real government employee was trying to cockblock because he was upset that his own game wasn’t doing the trick. That would stop the cockblock.
I’d never do the above scenario but I can see a bored, clever guy doing that on a whim and “real government agents” really don’t need to be jealous if the faker scores better looking women than they do.
In essence, another man would be about to bed a 10 pretending to have something similar to the job the real government agent has without actually impersonating a US government agent. Frustrating to a real agent? You bet. But the beta – if he is not really able to charm 8+ women – remains a beta while happening to be the real State Department official and the alpha remains alpha for deciding that he “can’t talk about what I do” that night – unless he flames out on his own (without being cockblocked). Tomorrow, with other women, he might go back to openly saying he is the more highly paid businessman that he is.
The bottom line is that he doesn’t fear rejection and likes to have fun with himself and others and did something (legal) on a whim.
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@Laura You are a 9 to me. =)
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My favorite fib towards women:
“I want to marry you in future.”, or variants of it eg. “I see a future together.”
Then when you got the poon, kick her out of your life. Someone once said the most fun part of a job is to quit. Well, the most fun part of a relationship with a woman is to DTB. Best when done without warning, with an element of surprise.
Works everytime. Honesty will not get you laid, although it *may* eventually turn you into a married chump.
I was blind but now I see. Thank you Roissy.
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@ Jack: Real SAMs (the only bona fide kind of IMM, FYI: biz-dorks are never such) are easy to spot if you know the signs. It’s called “spy spotting” for a reason.
Blowing cover abroad – something real SAMs don’t do or they wont be an SAM for long – will not result in you “losing your visa” as you put it. It causes you to get PNG’d (ie kicked out) from a country, or jacked up by and/or arrested by the local security service. On occasion, people just disappear; no, this is not covered in the Washington Post. I could tell you what happens when you blow cover and piss off the FSB (the Russian Federal Security Service, dear readers), but per the cliche …
There are lots of manly-men (your phrase) on the front lines of the War on Terror, in many agencies, and plenty of women too who could, I suspect, kick your ass quite easily. I don’t really want women on those front lines, but some of them are awfully dedicated and brave. Often hot too.
There are lots of kind of cover and they range considerably in their depth, complexity, and effectiveness: enough on that.
Trust me, if you get involved in a relationship with a woman with above 110 IQ, she will quickly figure out what you do. At that point, you get permission to break cover, if you really like her and want to deal with the paperwork. If she’s a foreigner it’s a very complicated mess.
On more than one occasion I did the, “Hey, btw, everything you know about me is a lie” to a gal I was in an LTR with and, without exception, the reaction was not, “OMG you asshole,” (sorry, gals) but quite the opposite: “That’s the hottest thing I’ve ever heard,” one blondie said as she dropped to her knees and …
Like a bad movie, really. 🙂
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GdI – I meant that a regular US businessman will not want to imply he is a US spy if he wants to keep *his* visa to many countries. The woman’s father or brother wouldn’t take kindly to hearing that, even if only implied. Obviously a real IMM (in the narrow sense Roissy did not really mean) will pretend he is a businessman, so we should all act like businessmen whether we are or not. 😉
MGTOW: Agreed. As I said above, the biggest lie a man can tell a woman (in her eyes) is not related to his job, his bank account or his age, but his INTENTION TO MARRY OR NOT. 😉
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I don’t know if these wannabe stories by the betas acting like alphas is pathetically hilarious or tragically comical.
I feel a vacation is in order.
Plus its spring break…
PS All of the ‘players’ I knew in high school who gammed girls are the biggest divorced unhappy losers in the western world…lol…karma, aint it a bitch…
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I like to accomplish this with way over the top lies. If I see a yacht on TV, I’ll mention that it looks like my yacht. Or the one that I used to have before I lost it to pirates while partying onshore in Florida. And over and over and over this same theme. A gullible girl will be drawn in, each time, as I tell each tall tale with straight face and gusto. Then there is that moment of doubt, and that pissed off pain she feels that she was gullible that turns into laughter.
If you’re familiar with suggestion and NLP, you’ll know that truth isn’t always necessary. An outrageous lie can still pull those triggers and push those buttons.
For me, my whole persona demands strict microscopic level accuracy and honesty. I depend on that in order to think clearly. I’ve rarely come across a need to lie, and what others say is a need is usually only an easy way out. I see disadvantages in that easy way. I see greater advantages in honesty – it makes the speaker more whole, cogent, coherent, and even manly and forceful. It makes a real man out of you. Which year after year shows up in your demeanor as clear as war scars show up in your flesh.
Jack mentioned that you can’t have multiple LTRs without lying. I only lived that lifestyle for two years, and it was in the wild wilds of Thailand, but my experience disagrees. I used discretion and boundaries where others would fill in the gaps with lies. The girls knew there were others, and I had several high drama meetings occur in my apartment. Beats bungy jumping – that’s high adrenaline living. People pay for that. And when you are not lying, they girls can’t go freaky on your head – they attack each other instead.
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Mgtow, I have a poor memory, but you’ve posted here before, haven’t you? What’s your deal, are you real?
That doesn’t read like the writings of a human. Real humans have mirror neurons, which forces them into social compliance, because hurting people causes them personal pain.
Unless you have some sort of personality disorder, or are a sociopath.
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Jack
And for this one telling the truth has no penalty as the man is awarded at the beginning of every courtship a full deck of get out of jail free cards. Girls will simply refuse to believe you when you tell them you won’t marry. You can say it, scream it, etch it into their skin with a razor blade. If they are into you, they’ll never hear you.
No penaltry for truth here.
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@GdI – as you are aware if you actually know whereof you speak, playing “spot the spook” is very bad form and highly discouraged. ’nuff said.
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Quite some years ago my wife and I walked into a bar,
about 9 o’clock at night.
On a whim, I put on the sunglasses I had lying on
the dashboard in my car.
That was all it took to produce LOTS of interest, male
and female. I WAS THE SECRET AGENT!
With my wife and all, I did not follow up. But it was
lots of fun, for both of us.
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@ maurice – I know whereof I speak, merci beaucoup, and you’re quite right that “spot the spy” is exceptionally gauche (especially when conducted by some snot-nosed shiny-new FSO, right in front of a bunch of FSNs) … on the other hand, spy-spotting is a job too. Called CI, last I checked. 🙂
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editor: really really? i’ve told the soulstone bit to three lawyers, a doctor, a nurse practitioner, a teacher, and a bartender, among others. all of them attractive women. and they all loved it. try expanding your horizons, champ.]
1. Bullsh•t, if this were true, you spend too much time telling the same embellished story to women and then embellishing their occupations to your readers.
[editor: you’ll just have to take my word for it…. champ.]
2. To the “champ” and later lisp comments, don’t feed the trolls. Act like you’ve been there before.
[if someone punches you in the face, should you ignore it and act like you’ve been there before?]
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@Roissy – How about doing a post on the two Hollywood suicides from last week; young males who clearly were NOT alphas nor successful with women by any stretch of the imagination despite the huge fame of their parents? The more you read about them, the more clear it is that Hollywood trained them to feel like disposable chaff (not to mention liberal weenies). The 41 year old would have found himself completely shut out of any kind of love life despite his star connections.
@Taggart You are missing the point that storytelling can also be about retelling God’s honest truth. The point is that there has to be a flow to a man’s conversation, it has to be fascinating to hear and it needs to push some buttons (such as “This man would help me get out of danger is someone flashes a knife later on outside this restaurant”). The guy who wins the woman is the one who tells stories that fascinate a woman. If they are true, all the better; but don’t come on here and imply that a man without much of a story repertoire (nor a charming way of storytelling) is going to do well with women.
OK, so the knife to the throat part should have been toned down to “he flashed a knife, I diverted his attention and I grabbed the girl’s hand and we got out of there fast”. Otherwise, the story told slowly over dinner, and mixed with plenty of knowledge about the current events that interest a woman most, would give almost any highly educated woman the feeling that she is talking to an interesting man and she would appreciate, consciously or unconsciously the buttons being pushed (if she is not a feminist). Remember, the man probably had been accosted by a drug dealer who may just have done worse to him if he had continued to take photos.
Keep in mind that the assumption is that the man has already established Alpha Cred and the woman’s interest. As has already been discussed, we are not talking about the car salesman from “True Lies”. The above concept is not about a man telling any lies that would get a woman to stand up and walk out of the restaurant or lose respect for him. This is just extra, advanced game if you will. This is harmless fun stuff. The serious lie, that he is not telling her, may be that he is only interested in a short term relationship and that he is actually more attracted to the waitress and would prefer her to join the two of you for the rest of the evening.
Some honest points he would be getting across is “I would protect you from an attacker – I look out for the welfare of children”. One can get those points across without telling a tall tale, but so what – one shouldn’t take oneself and life so seriously as to rule out a tall tale now and then for the heck of it.
I bet Roissy rarely tells a fib like the knife bit, but a winner is at least not so scared of rejection and doesn’t take himself so seriously that it wouldn’t be entirely out of the question for him to stretch a tall tale once in a Blue Moon. The other guy’s “that looks like my yacht before pirate’s stole it” was priceless. Even the most cynical, highly educated woman might get a tingle before the guy smirks and she laughs at his joke.
@Andrew There are websites with software that can actually test your basic game – you get 1000 possible outcomes with multiple choice options on what to say to a certain type depending on the responses you are getting.
And it can be tested here as well. Just state your demographic status and stature and then we can have @Laura judge your answers to the following questions:
1) After a conference in Daytona, you and Roissy (whom you don’t know to be the blogger here) hit a beach bar and find yourself in the middle of spring break. Drunk 19 year olds are all around you. You and he are over 35 (if you are not, imagine you are). Both of you look really young.
Will you both be 32 or 29 that evening? Or will you insist on stating your real age? Or will you totally beta out and refuse to try to win in this situation, saying the crowd is too young or (beta attitude of the century) you have nothing in common with the women? Will you want to go home to the hotel and watch a pay for view? Will you try to cblock Roissy by announcing he is really over 35 (not necessarily a deal-killer for the women but, considering that the women are looking for quick hookups, why take the chance)?
2) You are at a conference in Monte Carlo (Monaco) and hit the casino with Roissy (not knowing he is the blogger you despise). To you, he is an affable, conversational fellow American businessman in his late 30s.
At one table you meet up with two American 10s. Roissy quickly lets you know that he senses from their conversation that they are seriously looking for millionaires and they are heading to Jimmyz soon (exclusive disco at the bottom of the cliff by the Mediterranean where only the world’s richest young studs are allowed in unless you were smart enough to drop by during the day and make friends with the face control team).
Would you agree to a quick football huddle with him and agree to a story about the two of you owning a company that just got bought out? Or would you try your luck telling the truth? What if it were very clear that the truth would simply not cut it in this highly specialized situation?
Or would the idea of socializing in Monte Carlo be something so frightening to you and over your head that, if you were ever there, you would go back to your room and watch French pay for view?
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Andrew,
I want to commend you for your comments, it’s nice to know their are still some men that are not completely in thrall to Roissy’s world view and will behave with integrity. Unfortunately, I don’t think appeals to Roissy’s conscience are going to work, what will work is if women start rejecting him. When women are used for casual sex and then discarded they lose part of their dignity, that’s all there is to it. I doubt many women walk away from these short affairs and don’t feel some measure of shame and hurt over being rejected for anything more than just a quick fling. If these women want to get married and have children, as most of them eventually do, they need to modify their behavior (not giving in to every fleeting sexual whim) and go out with the type of guys that would make good husbands. It’s nothing new that women are attracted to alpha, bad boys I just think in the past society strongly discouraged women from chasing these types of men and falling into bed with them so easily. I’m frankly surprised so may women in their 20’s don’t seem to realize this.
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Lupo– That sucks dude. First of all,you went goth, any chick going into heavy goth is the equivalent to all of the underdeveloped guys who play Dungeons & Dragons.
I suggest you either take me with you when going out, I never get it wrong about a girl, (I know all of the tricks pulled) and I get paid to be detailed oriented, I’m quite good at telling a gal’s true beauty….(Or)…you smack that ass to see how tight is is before going home with her. 😉
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mgtow–you need to be shot. in the face.
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Jack: Nobody wants to read your motherfucking grandpa bullshit dumbass. Why do you feel it necessary to write a fucking novel on every fucking post? Shut the fuck up jackass.
Nobody wants to read your fucking bullshit when looking at comments. Go back to your prune juice and you reruns of The Andy Griffith Show please.
One of your comments talked about selling a house for $200,000 dollars. Fucking poor loser. If you are selling a house for that cheap you are a fucking beta. Shut the fuck up poor loser.
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@Matt Try saying that to my face or any of the guys in their 50s, like Stephen Seagal, who are eating your lunch where women are concerned.
If you think lying is wrong, write something substantial (better a novel than 3 sentences that say nothing). Take Roissy on directly over his opinion about lying, if you have the guts. For that matter, take Roissy on for his age.
Nothing maintains the artificially lowered sexual market value of American men than implying they should menopause themselves out of the gene pool at 40.
For that matter, try calling Roissy grandpa or telling him that you expect him to give up and hand the women over to your shortcake butt in a few years. How tall are you again?
When do you plan to retire from the world of women? You want to be a happily married beta at 50? A lot of young PUAs mistakenly think this is a sport like baseball where classy guys know when to quit (between 35 and 40).
You think guys who can outshine you just give up and call it a day when they turn 40? Being 50 and 6’2″ is better than being 25 and 5’9″. The 5 inch difference matters more to women than the age difference.
Did an older guy beat you out for a woman lately? If you are insecure about losing out to older guys who are taller or richer (like you have $200K in the bank), you’re not on the right blog.
Roissy talks about “alphas” not to spur testosterone-laden punks into saying that men tend to deteriorate into low market value, in fact he means the opposite.
Also, a real alpha doesn’t join a a small wolf pack in “piling on” nor does shout expletives at someone whom he thinks “cheated to get laid” or “used an unfair advantage to get laid”.
The other thread with the flame war (6 “anti-liars” vs 6 people who liked the idea of bartenders and limo drivers vouching for a guy) was probably deleted partly because a few regulars were way off base about there supposedly being something wrong with a wingman, in a single instance, saying (without my permission) “he’s a millionaire, go out with him” which probably wasn’t the defining factor in getting a particular date nor was it something I’d ever had a wingman do on my behalf (since 1995).
Again, if you think lying is wrong, write an essay on why you will always tell the truth, even if it loses you a 10, because you think maybe that lying shows “weak game” in all cases.
Then remember Roissy’s November 2009 post saying that the “Most Beta Comment Ever Made On This Blog” was one where a “male” said he would never lie to get sex.
And remember that expletives indicate the writer is hiding another reason for his emotional outburst.
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Thanks Laura. It takes a lot of will to stick up for jaded man hating women.
Not thay I can save them from themselves, but my days of captain save a ho are over.
It is true that hurt people hurt others. That is why I am looking for women who don’t have “damaged goods” tattoed on their foreheads.
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@anoukange: “First of all,you went goth, any chick going into heavy goth is the equivalent to all of the underdeveloped guys who play Dungeons & Dragons.”
About 15 years ago, goth chicks were the hottest American females. They were mostly retarded, but they were feminine and dressed like Russian hookers, which was completely awesome. They’re all fat and ugly now, of course, and they wear those pathetic fat girl corsets -their personalities haven’t improved either. Sad, really.
This episode was around 10 years ago. No way you could have caught it. Ass slapping and all kinds of other gropings happened well before I unwrapped my disappointing package; she was well tucked in. I suspect the reason you haven’t been had so far is most women in America don’t dress very cleverly. I mean, this is a nation of women with beer guts who wear belly shirts anyway.
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A lota’ y’all sure are cranky. Some nice stuff though..
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“You: No, the he one with the biggest dick.”
If you’re trying to drive her away, use this alternate punchline, guaranteed to dry up her vagina instantly:
“The richest one.”
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roissy, you just explained how to fib but you didn’t even apply it. at all.
you wrote about the marine who toned his stories down. “boring and ineffectual”.
what you have to do is start with the truth, turn it into the second story… but then talk about it in a downplayed way. you have to MAKE it sound like you’ve told this story a thousand times and it has become BORING to you, otherwise the fib stands out like a sore thumb.
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“somebody had hit me the other day for a rendezvous”
– pre-selection from women
“i gave her ‘ooowowo’ cd and a fuckin’ poster!”
– leader of men
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DHV spikes ftw!
-Pre-selection.
-Protector of loved ones.
-Calm under pressure.
-All knowing all seeing. (god-like)
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[…] Storytelling and SWPL […]
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Unless the story is friggin awesome, don’t spend more than about 20-30 seconds on it. Everyone, and I mean everyone, will be bored out of their minds. I hate people who tell endless stories.
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“I hate people who tell endless stories.”
Childhood trauma, eh?
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